This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll school you on burning dream cats
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, Sips, Sips
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Hello everybody, I am Stank Dog, the cookie pimp
Back up in this biatch
Coming at ya
Aw shizzle
What's that?
I said aw shizzle
Aw, for real
Off the hizzle
Uh, this is April 6, 2004
Uh, episode 40 of Binary Revolution Radio
As you heard, my co-host this week is Not Theory himself
What's cracking
What's crack-a-lacking
Crack-a-lack-a-lacking
Alright, a little overboard there, huh?
That's alright
Alright, anyway
Um, now let me just start off the show
We got a lot of housekeeping
A lot of stuff to talk about
2,600 meetings happened this past week
Uh, so we got a lot of stuff to talk about
But, we do have one very, very big announcement
Um, we mentioned it in the forums
There's gonna be a huge announcement on the show
But I'm going to make you wait for it
So I'm not gonna tell you up front
At the end of the show
If I remember, I'll make the announcement
So, um, start off with some of the housekeeping
Uh, being a statistics junkie
I like to, uh, look at my stats from my site
See who's visiting
See what kind of, uh, interesting information I can find out
And since this is the beginning of April
I thought we'd look at March stats
And, um, the highest country we had visiting this month
Was .ca Canada
Coming in at, I think, 5th place on the list
Now, I exclude .net and .com
I just like to see what countries come
Um, Poland was 2nd
And Elglan and
Oh, I mean England
Can't smell
Uh, Poland and England both very close
2nd and 3rd
Turkey was 4th in the
As far as countries go
I thought that was interesting
Turkey was number 4th
And Norway
Finishing out the top 5
I say big shouts to Turkey
Yeah, right
That's, I
That's interesting
I mean, it's an interesting hit
I don't know
Welcome
I don't know what to say
Um, and again
That's taking out .net, .com, .edu
.us, I think was actually up there
But, um, you know
I don't really count that too much
Um, and .gov and .mil
They're on the list
But man, they're
I'm telling you
They're getting shuffled down
They used to be consistently top 10
Both of them
Or at least top 15
Both of them
Usually one was in the top 10
But, tell you what guys
They're
You guys aren't
You guys just aren't doing it for me
The feds
Man
They might be being slick
And like going to fucking
Some other
Some other network provider
Dude, that's a good call
They might
You know where they're going?
Turkey
Oh, yeah
See, we're on to you
You can't fool us
Damn feds
No, we know what's up with you guys
I know you're not going away that easily
Um, what else was interesting
Out of my statistics?
Um, still getting a lot of hits
To the robots.txt file
And that is
I assume
From the robots and spyderkers article
Still in this 2600
Um, telling people to check it out
And explaining how it works
And stuff like that
So some people are hitting that directly
And I can tell when that happens
There's no, um, user agent sent
It's, uh, coming directly from browser
Um, and I guess
Not only
Not only am I getting people
Tidding it directly
I opened the forums
Back up to Google last month
And I think I mentioned that
So I got a lot of Google hits
Google spider hits
On the logs this time
So we got over a thousand
Well over
I think close to 2,000
From Google
Um, since I opened it up
So in the month of March
Um, and a lot of click-throughs
So people are searching
And finding stuff
And coming through
To us through Google
So that's
I guess a pretty cool thing
Um, one that surprised me
Was Jeeves
I mean, I didn't think
Anybody still use
Ask Jeeves
I've
I've tried to use it
Once or twice
And it's terrible
Oh, he's a moron
He's an absolute moron
But you can ask him
If he's gay
And he tells you
It's none of your business
Yeah, I know
That was funny
Like five years ago
When it first came out
I guess
Oh, come on
I'm just trying to let people know
In case they don't
Well, you know
We'll put that as a little
Funny thing in the show notes
See, I put all kinds of
Little hidden stuff
In the show notes
Like people click on stories
They'll find
They'll take them
To a funny thing
But I don't think
Anybody ever checks
Um, yeah
Jeeves
He's
Well, I guess
Figure out if he's gay or not
Um, he got
I think close to a thousand hits
From the Jeeves bot
Or whatever it's called
Um, and I got some new
I don't know if they're new
Physically just coming around
But maybe they just added us
To their
To their database
I got hits from three new search engines
That I'd never seen
Or heard of before
Because they're from other countries
Uh, the first one was
Seznam
S-E-Z-N-A-M
Which is Czech
Czechoslovakia
Uh, the second one was
Tis
I guess
I don't know
How do you pronounce that?
Tiscali?
Tiscali
Or Tiscali
Or whatever
I don't know
Which is French
I need to ban that one
And, uh, Fireball
Which is a German search engine
So, I guess they just
Added us to their database
And now we're getting people
Searching for those companies
Coming here
Um, and the referrals
Or top referrals
Again, pretty consistently
Is, is Icon
And the guys over at
Freaksandgeeks.com
One of our hosted sites
Actually
Um, we've always gotten
Good hits from them
They're bringing in
The freaks and the geeks
And, um
People are linking
From that site
And, after we did
A few episodes
A while back
On port knocking
They added a link
To us over on their site
So we get quite a few
Hits from them
And they were second
On the list
So, that's very cool
Of them
So, hopefully
Some of those people
That came by
From port knocking
Stuck around
And listened to the show
Um, and here's
This is
This one was interesting
As well
The search terms
Tells you what people
Are searching for
When they come to the site
The number one search term
Was hacker wallpaper
Hmm, interesting
Yeah, I don't
I didn't see that one coming
I mean, it's cool
And I like
I have all the wallpaper
That everybody makes
And puts up in the forums
Or in the gallery
And I have it rotating
At work
And rotating at home
You know, every 15 minutes
Kind of mix it up
A little bit
So, apparently people
Are looking for this
I mean, it was the number one
Search term
So, get to crackalackin
On the old wallpaper
Come up with some cool wallpaper
Post it in the gallery
By all means
People are searching for it
And looking for it
So, um
Yeah, keep making more
And some of the stuff
Is really cool
I've got to admit
I, you know
I've said so many times
How much I love it
Because I can't draw
I can't draw stick people
Straight
I tell you
And the number two search term
Was how to hack hotmail
So everybody keeps posting
About how do I hack hotmail
Yeah, we love talking about that
We love talking about that
And it's especially clever
If you word
Don't come out and
You know
Because everybody knows
That's the noob question
Word it differently
Like
I've heard
Hotmail security
Is very weak
What do you guys think?
Hmm
Or put something like
New hotmail vulnerability
With like a bunch of
Exclamation points
And ones and stuff
Yeah
Okay, maybe not
Yeah
Whatever
Hey, we have a warning system
In place now
So, whatever
If it's
Hey, you know
Joking aside
If it's in the newbie section
I just give it a polite
Short answer
And close it
And just move on with life
I'm not going to waste up
Time flaming the same thing
Over and over
That's the other thing
Is it's
It's been done, dude
There's no point in flaming it
Over and over again
Just
Ignore it
Or answer it
One or the other
Um
Also
Let's see
That's about it
For the statistics
Um
I don't know
Maybe people find that boring
But I find it interesting
Find some cool stuff
See who's
I like to see who's linking to us
Who's making mention of us
You know
I find links from other forums
Where they're saying
How much Stank Dog sucks
Or
Binary Revolution rocks
Or
Where's the next damn magazine
Or whatever
Whatever
So
It's kind of cool to follow them backwards
Um
Oldschoolfreak.com
Dual Parallel
Bland Inquisitor
They haven't gone anywhere
You haven't heard their voice lately
But
They just finished writing a very cool article
Uh
Basic Slackware Security
Which is up on
Oldschoolfreak.com
So go check that out
Um
It's making it's rounds
There are a lot of sites now
That are
Copying it
And mirroring it
And giving links back to
Oldschoolfreak.com
So it's very very popular
And
And definitely making it's rounds
On the web
So I think that's really really cool
So check that out
If you haven't
Good stuff
Uh
And I
And I read it
I thought it was very good
I liked it a lot
You know
I
Absolutely checked it out
I think the
The day that he posted
The next
The very next day
I went and checked it out
It's good stuff
Um
And
Let's see
Before we go to the email
I wanted to touch on
The magazine
And
The
The process by which we take orders
I think it's
Been done before
But it's time we touch on this again
Because I've had a couple problems here recently
First of all
When we set up a PayPal account
We set up
An orders at binrev.com email address
And that's what the PayPal
PayPal account is tied to
Now what that does
Is anything that's
Uh
Anytime somebody makes an order
It sends a confirmation to orders at binrev.com
Well
Basically that email address is unmonitored
Or it was unmonitored
Um
I would get on and check it
Maybe once every month or so
But I didn't really need to monitor it
Because all it did was send copies of the orders
To that mail address
I go on to
Uh
PayPal.com
Log in
And I can see a list of all the orders
Right there in front of me
So that's how I used
That's how I tell
What orders are out there
And that's how I fulfill orders
If you send feedback
To orders at binrev.com
I'm not going to always see it
Now
Because of these incidents
I'm going to have to start checking it more often
But please
If you have a problem with the magazine
Uh
That's basically what this comes down to
Someone says they didn't get their magazines
That they ordered
Um
Email me at stankdawg at binrev.com
I mean if you know about the magazine
I assume you know about the radio show
Or the forums
Or the site in general
I mean to get in touch with me
Is not difficult
It's out there
My email address is everywhere
So emailingorders.com
Really
I guess if you're really wanting them bad enough
You could have emailed them to me specifically
But
Anyway
Since that is an unmonitored account
I don't notice when people try to give feedback
Or want to make changes
If you place an order
And maybe this is just
I don't know
This is just common sense to me
But when you go in
And you place an order
You put in your shipping address
Well
That's where I'm going to mail the order to
Doesn't that make common sense?
Yeah
I don't think so
Am I missing something here?
I don't know what other address you'd want to put there
But
Right
Well
You know I got an order
I had the address on there
I filled it out
And purely by luck
Purely by coincidence
The person who placed the order
Did email
Orders at BinRev.com
With a change that he wanted
To his
To his address
It was to his work address
He said they wouldn't forward it
So he requested
I put
The name of the person
Attention
Such and such department
Forward to
Whatever
Pure luck that I did get that email
I happened to check the orders at BinRev
When that came in
So
And I had not shipped it out yet
It was laying on my desk
With stamps
On it
Ready to mail out
It was pure coincidence
So I distinctly remember getting this
And I did exactly what he requested
So it was pure luck that he got it
And I did ship it out
Apparently
He still never got them
So
You know
Fine
That happens
Accidents happen
You know
I'm still pretty willing to work with people
But I never got an email
Saying that there was a problem
Again
And he sent an email
To orders at BinRev.com
Which is unmonitored
So
Long story short
He never got his magazines
And wasn't very happy about it
So
I thought I'd bring it up on the air
And mention
This happened once or twice
You know
For the most part
We've mailed everything out
With no problems whatsoever
And we had one or two problems
That we filled easily
You know
I understand
You know
People seem to understand
That we're doing this
Out of our basement
That this is
You know
Pretty much
An underground thing
And it's not like
We have order fulfillment
Plants
And stuff like that
So
I'm
Shipping these things out
As best as I can
But please contact me
Directly
Stankdawg
At BinRev.com
And let me know
If there is a problem
Or if you haven't gotten something
I can go in
I can verify
I keep a log
Of everything that I've sent
And the dates that they're sent
And all that kind of stuff
I can cross reference
And make sure that it left
And tell you when
And you know
If it might take a few more days
Basically
It could take
Upwards of two weeks
To get this
I try to fulfill them
Two or three days a week
Sometimes I may not get to it
Until a Friday of the week
So it may sit out there
If you sent your order in
On a Monday or Tuesday
It may sit there until Friday
Before I get it
And then it'll take it
Seven to ten days
To ship after that
Because we send
The cheapest we can afford
The best we can afford
To send it
Which is
By USPS
Normal
Cheap mail
So
Give it a little time
But yes
If after a couple weeks
You haven't gotten something
Feel free to
Contact me about it
And be careful
With your address
The address that you send me
Is where I'm going to send it
It's not that difficult
Anyway
I can't read minds
That's all I'm saying
Now
I do have one email
I wanted to touch on
Because this relates to
A talk we had
On the last episode
About iTunes
And Walmart music service
Yada yada yada
And it's from a person
Whose real name
And we don't read those
On the air
And he says
He or she says
Hi I'm listening to your show
Concerning the above topic
Which was
Walmart music service
From a subject line
I can clarify
A couple things
Concerning Apple
iTunes songs
The songs are in
MPEG 4 format
You can burn them
To a CD
And re-rip them
To MP3
If you have another
MP3 player
Besides the iPod
Once you burn
A purchased song
To a CD
It is
It is as if
It's
Well that's a lot
Of short words
Purchased a song
To a CD
It is as if
It's on the
Store bought CD
So you can now
Do with it
Whatever you please
Walmart sucks
And I won't use
Their service
Even if they
Supported the Mac
Later
Yeah actually
I forgot about that
They do not
Support the Mac
I forgot
I think I did
Mention that
Last episode
They do not
Support the Mac
So obviously
He's not happy
About that
But even if they did
He still wouldn't
Be happy with it
Now I think
We talked about this
I don't know if
We talked about this
On the air or not
Before but did you
Have you ever tried
Either iTunes
Or the Walmart
Nope
The only reason
I've never tried
Any of that stuff
Is because
First of all
They probably
Don't have any
Music I like
And second of all
They probably
Don't support Linux
So I've never
Even bothered to look
Because I just
Every website
That has cool
Stuff like that
They never support Linux
Never support Mozilla
So I don't have to
Bother
Yeah they do not
Support Linux
You are correct
In that
But as far as
Number one
They do have
All the NSYNC
Stuff that you want
They have all
The Britney Spears
And they have
The Backstreet Boys
So I don't know
What you mean
About not having
Good stuff
Oh do they have
Mandy Moore
Oh I think
They had an
Exclusive Mandy
Moore track
Okay that's really
What matters to me
Okay well
There you go
There's reason
To sign up
You know what
I get a lot
Of
I'll go off
On a tangent
Here
I think it's
Is it Pepsi
I think
That has that
iTunes
Under the cap
Game
Whatever it's called
Yep
And people at
Work
Bring these to me
All the time
And I'm
Actually you know
I've like
Screw this
I'm not interested
In it
But I politely
You know
They think
They're being
Nice to me
And they are
Being nice to me
Bring me this thing
And I'd be polite
And thank them
But I was never
Going to use them
But I'm starting
To get a handful
Of them
Now I'm thinking
I might try it out
And see what I can
Come up with
Just to play with it
Why not man
Yeah so
Anyway he says
Back to this email
You can burn it once
And then re-rip it
Now what stops me
From burning it
More than once
Like you know
I think the Walmart
Thing said you could
Burn it up to 10 times
It would let you
Burn it to 10 times
Is there some kind
Of control in digital
Rights management
That prevents that
Yeah I'm pretty sure
That there's DRM
Built into that
And the limits
How many times
You can burn it
Yeah I think so
Wouldn't that
Wouldn't that type
Of feature
Have to be
Application dependent
The application
Has to honor that
Yeah well what
I mean if there's
Like a
I don't know
I'm picturing
Correct me here
I'm picturing it
Like almost like
An ID3 tag
It's going to have
Some parameters in there
Or something like that
As well as encryption
And blah blah blah
But it's going to have
Some flags set
Of is this copyright
Yes or no
Is this encrypted
Yes or no
Has this been burned
X number of times
Is this eligible
To be burned
Stuff like that
It's got to have
Some control variables
In there
Right
So isn't that going
To be application
Specific as to whether
Or not that application
Fathers to look
At those flags
I mean let's say
It's copy written
Number of copies
You're allowed to make
Is zero
Number of times
You're allowed to rip
It zero
If that's embedded
In the DRM
I mean it seems
Like a small thing
I mean it seems
Like there's going
To be burning
Software that comes out
That just ignores it
Oh yeah I'm sure
There will be
Eventually
The thing
The thing that
I'm not sure about
Is the person
Who wrote in
Said that it uses
MPEG-4 audio
Which is MPEG-4 AAC
Which stands for
Advanced Audio Codec
I don't know
What player
Actually supports
MPEG-4 AAC
Because maybe
It's just some
Special iTunes
Player that supports
It
Maybe it's just
This special
Like Walmart
Has some special
Player that supports
It
And if that's the
Only thing
They can read
The file anyway
They can pretty
Much enforce
Any type of
Digital rights
They want on it
Well again
Until like you
Said somebody
Develops an
Application that will
Support them
Yeah
Basically all you
Have to do
Is buy the
MPEG standards
Oh god I can tell
You reading
MPEG standards
Is impossible
But eventually
You can figure it
Out
And yeah
Somebody can
Write a
Write a player
For it
They just have
To reverse
Engineer the DRM
That's built in
There
That's the thing
Well
Historically the DRM
Hasn't been real
Strong with the
Sharpie markers
And the
Oh yeah
You know
It's been
You know
This is different
This is
You know
That was copy
Prevention
This is DRM
It's a little bit
Different of course
But point being
How strong
How powerful
And how
Valid is it
Right now
Well
Unbreakable
There's a lot
Of ways around it
Yeah
I'm sure there is
And it's only
A matter of time
Before people find it
And then
Then what are they
Going to do
Start suing people
Again
Of course
You know
Go through this
Whole crap
And you know
Apple's going to
Support MPEG 4
You know
They're in bed
With the
Motion picture
Industry
So
It may very
Well be
Some type of
iTunes player
iTunes iPod
Standard
Yeah
But um
I don't know
It seems like
Seems like I've
Downloaded
MP4
And played
Them on
Maybe XP
Maybe Windows
Media Player
I don't remember
Seems like I've
Played them before
But I can't
Verify that
So
Then again
Like I said
If it is
MPEG 4
Audio
But it's
Wrapped in
Some DRM
So the whole
File's encrypted
Then
You know
The actual
Data is in
MPEG 4
But it's
Encrypted
So you don't
You need their
Special player
Anyway
I don't really
Know how it
Works
Like I said
I've never
Used it before
But my
My impression
Is that it
Would be
Something
That some
File is
Completely
Encrypted
And when
It's decrypted
It's in
MPEG 4
Format
That's my
Guess
Well and
You know
And he says
In his email
This is a very
Suggestion that
You can burn
It to a CD
But then you
Re-rip it
Back out to
MP3
Just as though
It were
You know
Any other
CD you'd be
Ripping
So that seems
Like another
Obvious work
Around to
DRM
You can fill
It up with
DRM all you
Want to
But rip it
Once to
MP3
And
Anyway
It just
Sounds like
A futile
Attempt to
Me
Anyway
That is it
For our
Housekeeping
This time
And we
Move into
The show
And tell
Portion
Of the
Show
And
I had
A nice
I had a
Funny story
From my
2600 meeting
But before
I go into
It
I thought
You would
Take the stage
A little bit
Because I've
Been talking
For a while
And I need
A drink
So you
Were telling
Me about
Newphone
And I think
You wanted to
Talk about that
A little bit
If I'm correct
Yeah
Okay
I've been
Using
Newphone
For a bit
And it's
Cool
You can
Do all
The stuff
You know
All this
Caller ID
Spoofing
And all
This other
Junk
With it
Which is
Awesome
And I've been
Playing around
With Voice
Pulse too
Voice
Pulse seems
Like a more
Professional
Service
But Newphone
Definitely has
Some perks
That Voice
Pulse doesn't
Have
Which namely
Would be
That you can
Get people's
Caller ID
From
You can get
Their
ANI
Their automatic
Number identification
Even when they
Block the
Caller ID
So Newphone
Definitely has
Perks over
Voice
Pulse
My only
Problem with
Newphone
Now is
It seems like
Everyone and
Their mother
Can use their
Newphone to
Call internationally
Except for me
Every time I try
To make an
International call
It just
Fucking hangs
Up on me
Because Newphone
Owns you
Yeah Newphone
Does own me
Yeah I talked
To actually
Shout out to
Nick84
I talked to him
Today he gave me
A call on my
Asterisk box
And we were
Talking for a bit
And he was the one
Who brought it to my
Attention that people
Can make
International calls
On it
And I don't
Know he said
It's just easy
He said just
Dial 0 and 1
And the country
Code and the
Number and it
Works but he
Just tells me my
Call has been
Rejected so that's
That's really
Upsetting me so if
Any of the listeners
Happen to know if
There's anything
Special I have to
Do to my new
Phone account to
Get it to work feel
Free to write me
Email I would
Love to hear it
And that reminds
Me we have to
Point your email
Address because you
Changed it
I'm going to make
A note because
We're not going to
Give let's see
Make a note
Forward email
Now also I don't
Want to put you
On the spot but
Did you do any
Research on that
We were talking
Offline this weekend
About that
Pingtel product
Oh no I didn't
Really get to mess
With it too much
I've been I've
Been really looking
Into voice over
IP hardware a lot
But I haven't
Messed with that
Particular one
Pingtel refresh my
Memory now
Now and actually I
Will make this as a
Call out to anybody
Who does have
Experience or know
Anything about it
Pingtel is a
Company but they're
What they've done is
Open source their
IP PBX the SIP
Exchange it's
Called oh right
Right right right
Right yeah they
Have they have two
Different products the
SIP exchange is a
Is an IP PBX it's
Rack mount it looks
From the picture like
It's a two are you
Unit it might be one
Are you in any case
It sounds very much
Like a asterisk it
Supports SIP and a
Whole bunch of other
Cool junk and it
Says that it supports
Other industry standards
Including Java Linux XML
And the biggest one
For a lot of people
Out there that's
Buzz is kind of
Starting about it is
Voice XML which
Basically is a it's a
Markup language that
Let's you determine or
Let's you design voice
Prompts and like entire
Voicemail systems and
Everything in XML it's
Just it's really amazing
And you can have it do
Text to speech and
Everything you can say
Prompt the user for you
Know a ten digit number
And say please enter a
Ten digit number it'll
Text to speech it'll
Say please enter a ten
Digit number it'll beep
Dial your number it
Does verification it's
Really cool voice XML
Is awesome and I read
In here and that's one
Of the things that
Sounded cool to me was
That it had interactive
Voice response IVR it
Calls it but I didn't
Realize it was voice
XML yeah they see the
Thing is products like
Asterisk they they can
Do IVR but they do IVR
By like you know writing
Perl scripts or writing
AGI stuff in C or you
Know making a fancy dial
Plan that does a lot
Of stuff but the soup
Exchange sounds like
It'll be much easier to
Create an IVR with
Because you just do the
Stuff in XML and it's
Pretty straightforward and
Actually I found out that
There actually is a voice
XML debugger that I was
I was worried that you
Know writing voice XML
Would just be like you
Know just shooting in the
Dark having no idea
What's going on just
Hoping it'd work but
There is like a full true
Blue debugger for it now
And sounds to me like
That's what people in the
Future are going to be
Using it.
Perl scripts are nice
They let you do things
Voice XML can't but for
Quick and dirty stuff and
For basic stuff voice XML
Is the way to go.
Very cool stuff.
And one more thing
Pingtail also has a SIP
Phone an IP phone which
Basically looks like a
Cisco phone kind of like
Kind of like Cisco had
Sex with Fisher-Price.
It's like really big and
Round and has huge knobs on
The side and stuff like
That if anybody's used
One of these phones please
Let me know.
I've never never seen a
Review of it or nothing.
I just wanted to know
You know how much it
Costs and if it actually
Works and if the fact that
It's got this really stupid
Design gets in the way of
Using it or not.
But other than that it's
Got a nice big display in
It and a whole bunch of
Buttons.
Looks like it could be a
Cool toy.
Buttons are very cool.
The more the better.
I hate dials.
You know what?
This is another weird
Tangent.
I don't even like a
Microwave with a dial
On it.
I want buttons damn
It.
I like LEDs and buttons.
Yeah the thing that I
Dislike about dials is
That you have to like
Turn something like 15
Times to get to where
You want to go.
You got buttons.
You just punch it in
And you're there.
Yeah see I don't even
Want to turn it once.
That's too much energy.
I want to push the
Button.
Yep.
And it has to beep.
Or depress or you know
It has to have some
Kind of response.
It has to feel it.
I can't just be one of
Those tap buttons.
I don't like those.
I got to have it.
I got to feel some
Resistance or hear some
Kind of confirmation that
The button has been
Depressed.
I need gratification
Damn it.
I see.
Boy.
I opened myself up to
That one.
Yeah.
We'll leave that in.
What the hell.
And actually
Mentioning voice
XML
Could have been a good
Segway to our main
Topic later on tonight.
So keep that in mind.
But I'm going to give a
Little bit of a story
From my 2600 meeting.
First of all
Our meeting has gotten
Bigger and bigger and
Bigger each month.
And that's so cool.
We had more new people
This time.
I think we must have
Had upwards of 15 people
At any given time.
Maybe even more.
I just kind of eyeballed it.
A couple one-timers
I'm sure.
I don't think we'll see
Back some
Curiosity seekers.
And some that maybe
We will.
Obviously we had some
Of the regulars there.
And they showed up
Earlier than usual.
Normally
People
Even though the meetings
Officially start at 6
People sometimes
Don't stumble in
Until 7
Or 7.30
8 o'clock
Getting off for work
And stuff like that
And driving down.
So
Or up
Whatever the case may be
So
It was
A lot of people there
And they were there
Pretty early this time
So it was a good
Long meeting
And actually
I should
Take a moment
If I can
There was one person
Who showed up
Fairly early in the meeting
And I was speaking
To this guy
He was a new person
And
More people started
To show up
And we started
Talking amongst ourselves
And stuff like that
And the next thing
I looked
He had disappeared
On me
So
I don't know
If he had to leave
Or if I
You know
I hope we didn't
Send him away
Thinking we were
Ignoring him
Or anything like that
So if you're
Listening out there
Please contact me
I don't want you
To think that
Not to turn this
Into a big drama
Or soap opera
Or anything
But
He had gotten off work
And I know we were chatting
And everything seemed cool
But
I'm guessing he probably
Just had to leave
Earlier
And I didn't get
To say goodbye
To him
So
If you're out there
Listening
Contact me
And I hope you
Do show up
To the next meeting
Now
For the story
From my
Meeting this time
You know what
It is almost like
A soap opera
Our meeting
We have
Fairly
Semi-regularly
People that I call
The hire-a-hackers
They show up
To the meeting
Because they want
To hire a hacker
To do some dirty work
For them
And
Since I've been going
Once every
Two or three months
We get one
And
They're harmless
For the most part
We listen to their story
We try to educate them
And explain what we don't do
And that he's barking up
The wrong tree
And
You know
Depending on whatever
The case may be
So
It's funny
It's a funny phenomenon
That happens
And
This month
We had another one
But I actually felt
A little bit for this guy
This
This was an older gentleman
And
He came to the meeting
Because
Well
He came to the meeting
With the 2600 magazine
In his pocket
And he saw me there
With my laptop
And he was one of the people
That came pretty early on
In the meeting
And
Asked if it was
2600 meeting
And introduced himself
Very polite
Articulate
And respectful
Which is unusual
For a group of hackers
To be treated respectfully
I hope that's a trend
That continues
And
I guess
The short version
I'll give you the shortest version
I can
He basically
Was caught up
In one of those
Online scams
Not the Nigerian one
But almost
He
He's actually
An investor
And
There are these
Capital investment clubs
Or some
I'm not sure
The exact terminology
That are basically
Groups of people
That pool their money together
And invest it
As a group
A large sum of money
So that the
Interest
And the
Return on that
Large investment
Usually gives you
Higher returns
Than
Smaller savings investments
Or smaller
Stock investments
And things like that
So
There are
Perfectly legitimate
Ones out there
And he's had
Experience
It's not new
It wasn't anything
That was new to him
However
He did get
Caught up in one
That was
Basically
A scam
And
What the scam was
Was they actually
And
I gotta give some credit
I don't like
You know
The fact that this happened
But at least they did it
In an interesting way
I guess
I don't wanna give them credit
But
They
Got a bunch of people
To invest
In this
Thing
Which is the point
Of the whole
Investment club
And what they did
Is when people
Invested
All the people
Who invested
Small amounts
Of money
They paid them back
When the time
Came and they
Wanted to take
Their funds out
They basically
Put it into
If you wanna
Think of it
As a debit account
You put in
A set amount
Of money
And
It sounds
Kinda silly
It sounds fishy
But you send them
An amount of money
And it gets put
Into kind of
A debit account
And a running account
That calculates
Your interest
And the interest
Upon that interest
Cumulative interest
And that's really
Where the money
Is to be made
And
What you do
Is
As that builds
You can start
Taking money
Back out of it
Anytime you want
So the goal
The ideal goal
For an investor
Is to
Let that money
Build up
For a little while
And as soon as
It gets back
To your original
Amount
You pull
Your original
Investment back out
And you leave
All you have
Left in the account
Is the interest
And let that interest
Build upon itself
And you've got
Nothing but
The cumulative
Interest going on
Well
What this person
Did was
People who invested
Smaller amounts
Of money
He treated it
Perfectly legitimate
He was paying them
Back their money
He was giving them
Their interest
Because it was
Small amounts
He was really
Going for the
High rollers
And people who
Were putting
Larger amounts
Of money
And this gentleman
Apparently fell
Into that category
Now I'm not
Going to give
Any names
Or any information
Or anything like that
So that's not
The issue here
The issue is
That he came
To hackers
For help
And obviously
We're a little
Fishy at that
I mean how would
You react
If somebody came
To you
With a situation
Like that
I mean what
Is your
What would your
Gut tell you
What's your first
Instinct in a
Situation like that
Actually I've heard
Of the scam before
So probably
I definitely
Believe them
But what I
Would do
About it
I don't know
What they
Could possibly
Want me to
Do about it
Do they want
Me to track
This person
Down like
In hackers
And fucking
Own them
Yeah and
Basically that
Is
That is
And it's
Not out of
It didn't
Come across
To me as
An assumed
That's what
Hackers do
Bad stuff
Like that
It was more
Like it
Wasn't
It was a
Request for
Help
Is the way
I took
It
But at
The same
Time
It's
I felt
Very paranoid
And very
Awkward
About the
Whole situation
So being
The skeptic
That I am
In a situation
Like that
I asked a
Lot of
Questions
I had to
Be convinced
Myself
That he
Was legit
And this
Wasn't
Some other
Scam
Or that he
Wasn't
Some agent
Trying to
Entrap us
Into
You know
I'm very
Paranoid
About stuff
Like that
So I
Had to ask
Some questions
And I
I felt
Pretty confident
That it was
Just a
The guy
Got ripped
Off
And he
Was just
Looking to
Get his
Money back
So
And one
Of the
Things that
Clenched it
And proved it
For me
Was he
Brought a
Packet of
Information
Lots of
Handwritten
Notes
Lots of
Printouts
Lots of
Emails that
He printed
Out
Phone call
Conversations
That he
Written out
Notes from
Those
Conversations
And stuff
Like that
The guy
Is trying
And I
Think that's
A lot of
Effort to
Go to
To trick
Somebody
For you
Know
At a
Meeting
So I
Do think
It was
Legit
Now
He was
Kind of
Hesitant to
Use
He even
Actually at
One point
During the
Meeting said
The h
Word
And I'm
Like the
H word
And I
Actually had
I actually
Hesitated
I'm like
What's the
Fucking h
Word
Oh
Hacker
He goes
Oh I
Don't use
That word
I don't
Use that
Word
Um
Okay
Whatever
I'm like
Why not
What's wrong
With the
Word
Hacker
So he
He was
Doing it
Out of
I guess
Trying to
Be polite
I don't
Know
But
You know
I
If nothing
Else
Out of
The whole
Situation
I explained
To him
That hacker
Is not a
Bad word
That she
Should be
Afraid to
Say
And I
Explained
You know
How the
Media
Changes
The word
Hacker
And turns
It into
Something
That it's
Not
So
What I
Agreed to
Do for
This gentleman
Is
I listened
To the
Story
He stayed
The whole
Meeting
Which to me
Is very
Admirable
It shows
Interest
And shows
That he's
There
He's willing
To listen
And learn
I thought
That was
Very
Very cool
And I
Hope he
Did learn
Some things
And I
He brought
A couple
Copies
Of the
Information
That he
Had
And I
Did offer
To help
I made
It very
Clear to
Him
What I
Would and
Would not
Do
And again
I don't
Think he
Expected
Us to
Do anything
Illegal
Or break
The law
Or anything
Like that
But I
Still made
It very
Clear
That I
Would be
Glad to
See if I
Could find
Some information
On this
Person
It's an
Online
Scam
It's a
Most of
The stuff
Is done
Via email
And via
Websites
And stuff
Like that
So I
Told him
I'd be
Happy to
Just go
Out there
And search
Some information
For him
And see if
I could
Find
Anything
Helpful
Or useful
But I
Made it
Very clear
That I'm
Not going
To do
Anything
Illegal
I'm
Not going
To
I jokingly
Told him
For the
Amount of
Money he
Was talking
About
I told him
I'd fly
Down there
And kick
The guy's
Ass
But
Truthfully
I told him
I'm not
Going to
Do anything
Illegal
And if
That's
What you're
Expecting
To come
To a
Hacker
Meeting
Like we're
Going to
Do a
Bunch
Of
Illegal
Dirty
Work
To do
This
For you
You're
Barking
Up
The
Wrong
Tree
And he
Seemed
To understand
That
So I
Am actually
Going to
Do a
Little bit
Of leg
Work
Again
I work
I have
A real
Job
Full time
And then
Some
And all
The other
Stuff that's
Going on
So I
Told him
I'm not
Going to
Commit
To
Anything
Just send
Me what
Information
He has
And I'll
See what
I can
Dig up
So I'm
Going to
Do that
And I
Also told
Him that
His best
Bet is
To hire
A private
Investigator
And or
A lawyer
But you
Know that's
Later down
The road
The lawyer
The private
Investigator
Is really
Going to
Be the
One that
Gets the
Information
For him
Now
I can
Look and
See what
Information I
Can find
Via electronic
Means
And give
It to
Him
But what
Am I
Going to
Do after
That
I mean
This scam
It looks
Like is
Originating
Out of
The
Caribbean
Somewhere
Which is
Outside of
U.S.
Jurisdiction
And
Comes under
Special
laws
You know
So
It's
Not like
It's
It
At least
That's
Where
He's
Operating
From
That
Doesn't
Necessarily
Mean he's
Physically
Down there
As you
Well know
He could
Be right
Next door
For all
We know
But
I told him
The best
Thing is to
Fire a
Private
Investigator
Well
He explained
That
You have
To pay
Retainer
To a
PI
And
They're
Not
Going to
Guarantee
Anything
For it
So
That
Might
Just
Be
More
Lost
Money
So
He's
Hoping
That
Basically
If we
Can
Get
Some
Information
That's
Valid
And
We
Feel
Confident
About
That
He
Can
Take
That
To
The
Private
Investigator
And
Or
Lawyer
After
We've
Gotten
It
So
That
He
Has
More
Confidence
That
They're
Actually
Going
To Do
Something
Once
He
Gives
Them
A
Retainer
Fee
So
I
Don't
Know
Would
You
Help
This
Guy
And
If
So
How
Far
I
Probably
Look
Into
It
A
Little
Bit
Like
You
Said
But
I
Wouldn't
Help
Them
All
That
Much
And
The
Reason
Is
First
Of
I
Don't
Like
Working
For
Free
Not
Because
I'm
Money
Hungry
Or
Anything
Like
That
But
People
Tend
To
Take
Advantage
Of
Right
Understood
And
For
The
Record
He
Did
Offer
And
I
Just
Told
Him
That
You
Know
I
Will
Look
For
Free
And
Just
See
If
There's
Anything
Obvious
If
I
Actually
Get
Into
Any
Time
Consuming
Stuff
Then
Yeah
I
Need
To
Be
Paid
For
My
Time
Right
So
Yeah
I
Understood
He
Actually
Did
Offer
Okay
Well
That's
Cool
That's
A
Start
Yeah
And
It
Seems
Sincere
But
Honestly
In
A
Situation
Like
This
Where
You're
Saying
There's
A
Lot
Of
Money
Involved
And
It
Sounds
Like
It's
Something
That's
Going
To
Go
To
Court
Even
If
He
Hires
A
Private
Investigator
And
Don't
Turn
Up
Anything
Still
I
Think
Your
First
Route
Should
Be
To
Hire
The
Private
Investigator
Because
You
Know
Them
He
Can't
Really
Take
Anything
That
You
Give
To
Court
Because
The
Court
If
The
PI
Needs
Help
They're
Not
Very
Good
In
The
First
Place
You
Got
To
Hire
The
Right
Guy
And
Just
Get
It
Over
With
One
Shot
If
It's
That
Important
Yeah
And
That's
A
Very
Good
Point
The
PI
Should
Be
Able
To
Do
Everything
That
We
Do
You
Would
Think
I
Mean
You
Think
About
It
Like
You
Said
You
Have
Full
Time
Job
You
Have
Stuff
Eating
Up
Your
Time
The
PI
This
Is
Like
What
They
Spent
All
Their
Time
Doing
And
It's
What
They
Get
Paid
To
Do
All
The
Time
They
Should
They
Should
Have
All
This
Stuff
Down
To
The
Science
Yeah
And
I
Also
Mentioned
To
Him
That
If
It's
This
Is
A
Serious
Fraud
And
For
The
Amount
Of
Money
Because
He's
Not
The
Only
One
That
Was
Caught
Up
In
This
There
Was
Talk
Of
Getting
All
The
People
Together
For
A
Class
Action
Suit
Against
This
Person
Because
He's
Not
The
Only
Person
That
Was
Scammed
By
This
Guy
So
I
Told
Him
That
If
It's
That
Big
Of
A
Thing
Then
You
Need
To
Get
The
Feds
Involved
In
Something
Like
This
Because
It's
Out
And
Out
Fraud
You
So
And
He
To
Have
The
Impression
That
They
Were
Worth
They
Were
Worthless
So
Yeah
I
Repeated
On
Many
Occasions
That
The
Private
Investigator
Is
Definitely
The
First
Thing
He
Needs
To
Do
So
And
I
Made
It
Clear
Don't
Count
On
Information
From
Us
But
I
Do
Want
To
Try
To
Help
Because
Here
Comes
Somebody
Who
Has
Probably
Even
Though
He
Was
Polite
And
Approached
Us
In the
Back
Of
His
Mind
He
May
Still
Believe
The
Media
Portrayal
Of
A
Hacker
And
He
Just
Thought
He
Would
Give
Us
A
Shot
Because
What
Has
He
Got
To
Lose
I
Like
To
Show
And
Prove
That
Hackers
Can
Do
Good
Things
And
Help
I
Mean
You
Know
I
Hate
Fraud
Just
As
Much
As
The
Next
Guy
Yeah
So
Anyway
That
Was
My
Drama
From
This
Meeting
So
I
Guess
That's
All
I
Have
To
Say
About
That
If
I
Find
Any
Good
Information
I'll
Contact
Him
And
I
Have
His
Information
And
Stuff
Like
That
And
See
What
We
Can
Come
Up
With
The
Other
Thing
Though
Is
This
Is
Probably
A
Very
Selfish
Reason
To
Question
But
Getting
Involved
In
This
Suddenly
Makes
Me
I
Involved
In
The
Whole
Thing
Though
And
If
It
Does
Come
To
Court
Am
I
Going
To
Be
Called
Into
Some
Stupid
Courts
To
Testify
That
I
Found
This
Information
And
I
Did
This
And
Blah
Because
I
Don't
Want to
Get
Involved
In
That
Kind
Of
Crap
Either
And
I
Have
Time
For
That
I
Would
Say
Probably
Not
I
Would
Say
The
Private
Investigator
If
He
Hires
One
From
The
Information
That
You
Give
Them
The
Private
Investigator
Will
Probably
Say
That
They
Got
The
Information
On
Their
Own
Not
Reveal
The
Source
Of
It
Right
And
They
Can
Go
Confirm
It
All
On
Their
Own
Anyway
So
That
It
Is
A
Truthful
Statement
That
They
Find
It
Right
I
Think
Also
What
You
Were
Saying
About
The
Feds
Whether
They're
Incompetent
Or
Not
I
Don't
Remember
Where
I
Got
This
Number
From
But
I
Want
To
Say
That
Once
Fraud
Or
Some
Type
Of
Crime
Surpasses
$500,000
I
Think
The
FBI
Really
Gets
Interested
In
It
So
He
Should
Probably
Just
Give
Them
A
Call
And
Just
Let
Them
Know
That
Something
Is
Going
On
Just
That
They
Have
A
Heads
Up
That
Way
Later
On
If
Says
I
Need
To
Get
This
Piece
Of
Information
At
Least
The
Ball
Will
Be
Rolling
And
The
FBI
Will
Say
Well
You
Know
You
Already
Told
Us
About
This
Case
We
Already
Know
It's
This
Much
Money
We've
Verified
All
These
Sources
Now
We
Can
Help
You
Out
Because
There
May
Be
Stuff
That
They
Can
Get
That
He
Can
So
I
Say
It's
Worth
While
To
Get
Them
Involved
If
It's
Really
Important
And
I
Want
To
Say
The
$500,000
Figure
I
Got
From
The
Cuckoo's
Egg
Clistole
Book
If
Anybody
Not
Read
It
Yet
You
Should
Definitely
Read
It
Yeah
And
You
Know
Here's
Another
I'm
Just
Thinking
Out
Loud
Here
What
About
The
Fact
That
Getting
The
Feds
Involved
Isn't
That
A
Risk
Of
This
Is
Still
A
Hot
Trail
The
Sky
Is
Still
Out
There
And
The
Guy
Finds
Out
And
He
Shuts
Down
And
They
Never
Find
Him
So
I
Still
Think
The
Private
Investigator
Is
The
Way
To
Go
I
Did
Tell
The
Feds
Also
But
If
It
Was
Me
In
That
Situation
I
Think
The
P.I.
Would
Be
The
Best
Way
To
Go
Because
He
Can
Keep
It
A
Little
Bit
More
In
Down
Low
Than
The
Federal
Agents
Because
They're
Going
To
I
Don't
Know
I'm
Naive
When
It
Comes
To
That
I
Don't
Know
How
That
Whole
Thing
Works
Yeah
I
Don't
Know
I
Would
Hope
Hopefully
They
Would
Be
Smart
Enough
To
Set
Up
Something
Or
Something
Like
That
Where
They
Would
Keep
It
All
Under
Wraps
But
You
Never
Know
I
Don't
Know
Yeah
And
That
Was
That
Was
Kind
Of
Mentioned
At
The
Meeting
To
Possibly
You
What
Would
Stop
Another
Person
From
Contacting
The
Person
Saying
He's
Interested
In
Participating
And
Trying
To
Buddy
Up
To
Him
And
Get
Some
More
Information
Yep
And
That's
The
Path
The
PI
Probably
Would
Take
Or
At
One
Of
Them
Ah
But
What
Do
I
Know
Anyway
Is
That
That's
About
It
Unless
Do
You
Have
Anything
Else
For
Show
And
Tell
Or
You
Want
To
Move
On
We
Have
One
Main
Topic
Very
Lighthearted
Topic
To
Talk
About
Today
And
I
Think
That'll
Be
Enough
For
The
Show
Because
I
Don't
Know
If
I'm
Going
To
Be
To
Finish
The
Show
Without
Laughing
My
Ass
Off
Now
Uh
Oh
No
I
Don't
Think
I
Have
Anything
I've
Been
I've
Been
Working
On
Some
Aster
Stuff
But
That
Stuff
Is
All
Still
Top
Secret
For
The
Meant
So
Yeah
And
You
I'm
Glad
You
Brought
That
Up
You
Do
Still
Have
A
Project
That
You're
Working
On
And
When
That
Time
Comes
We
Will
Announce
It
On
The
Show
But
I
Know
The
Listeners
Hate
It
When
We
Tease
Like
That
Though
Yeah
I
Know
I
Just
I've
Been
Working
On
This
Thing
So
Long
And
There's
So
Much
Cool
Stuff
That's
Going
Come
Out
Of
It
But
Yeah
And
I
Guess
I
Have
To
Shoulder
Some
Of
The
Blame
I'm
Trying
To
Make
Some
Changes
To
The
Server
To
Give
You
Everything
You
Need
Right
Now
And
For
Some
Of
These
Projects
It'll
Be
Worth
The
Wait
That's
All
I
Can
Say
But
Yeah
I
Don't
Have
Any
Information
About
My
2600
Meeting
Because
I
Was
Supposed
To
Go
Meet
Epiphany
And
Oh
So
I'm
Glad
You
Brought
That
Up
Actually
I
Don't
Think
We
Mention
On
The
Show
That
Radical
Future
Five
Came
Out
Oh
That's
Right
I
Haven't
Even
Got
A
Chance
To
Read
It
Yeah
I
Forgot
To
Mention
That
I
Did
Go
Through
There
Excellent
PDF
You
Know
These
Guys
I
Know
He
Had
A
Hard
Drive
Crash
He
Had
A
Lot
Of
Problems
Getting
This
Issue
Out
So
Props
To
Them
For
Finally
Doing
What
It
Takes
To
Get
That
Magazine
Out
I
Know
How
Hard
It
Is
To
Do
That
So
Very
Cool
Of
Them
Oh
And
Check
It
Out
Port
Seven
Alliance
Go
Check
Them
Out
Port
Seven
Alliance
Dot
Com
You
Can
Link
To
It
From
Bin
Rev
Dot
Com
Right
On
The
Front
Page
Or
Any
Page
Now
Our
Main
Topic
I
Mentioned
The
Good
Segway
Would
Have
Been
That
XML
Talk
Voice
XML
But
I
Just
Turned
It
Into
A
Segway
Anyway
Because
This
Topic
Is
A
New
Markup
Language
That's
In
Development
Right
Now
And
I
Found
Out
About
It
From
The
April
2004
Issue
Of
Network
Magazine
Which
Is
Also
Where
I
Found
Out
About
Pingtale
And
Their
Products
Too
But
This
New
Markup
Language
I
Hesitate
To
Call
It
It's
Called
Human
ML
Or
Human
Markup
Language
Now
You
Can
Go
To
www.oasis
dash
Open
Dot
Org
For
The
Details
Of
It
Now
That
Site
Has
Several
Projects
On
It
Technical
Committees
To
Analyze
Different
Well
Different
Technical
Projects
And
Stuff
Like
That
So
When
You
Go
To
That
Site
Just
Search
Or
Look
For
Human
H
Human
ML
Excuse
Me
Human
Markup
Language
If
You
On
This
But
What
This
Basically
Is
And
I'll
Quote
It's
From
Their
Site
It
Says
The
Purpose
Of
This
TC
Or
Technical
Committee
Is
To
Develop
And
Promote
The
Human
Markup
Language
And
Related
Efforts
That
Function
To
Allow
The
Conveyance
Of
Human
Characteristics
Through
XML
Containing
Sets
Of
Modules
Which
Frame
And
Embed
Contextual
Human
Characteristics
Including
Cultural
Social
Kinesic
Psychological
And Intentional
Features
Within
Conveyed
Information
What
In
The
Hell
Did
That
Mean
I'm
Not
Really
Sure
I've
Looked
Through
About
15
Or
20
Pages
On
Their
Site
And
I
Haven't
Seen
They
Say
It's
XML
But
It's
Their
Human
ML
Thing
I
Cannot
Find
A
Single
Place
Where
There's
Any
Of
This
Code
For
Me
To
Take
A
Look
At
It
And
Understand
What
The
Hell
They're
Talking
About
There's
Some
Great
Videos
There
Are
Some
Excellent
Videos
That
Are
Very
All
Right
Listen
From
What
I
Get
Out
Of
This
We
Already
Have
This
They're
Called
Emoticons
They're
Called
Smiley
I
Can
Put
A
Smiley
That
Says
I'm
Winking
It
Conveys
The
Emotion
Or
The
Social
Kinetic
Whatever
The
Crap
They're
Talking
About
Embedded
Contextual
Human
Characteristics
I
Read
Their
Little
List
Of
Details
I
Read
Several
Pages
Of
It
As
Well
And
Okay
Actually
Here
Let
See
This
Is
I'll
Read
One
Snippet
That
I
Thought
Was
The
Closest
Thing
To
Explaining
It
Says
That
It
Supposed
To
Include
Quote
Gestures
Physical
Descriptors
And
Other
Contextual
Human
Characteristics
Within
Information
The
Goal
Is
To
Preserve
The
Fidelity
Of
Human
Interactions
And
Reduce
Misinterpretations
So
This
Is
Supposed
To
Be
A
Way
It's
Like
An
Extension
To
XML
Or
A
Standard
Within
XML
To
Define
What
I
Guess
What
Amounts
To
Posture
Description
Of
You
Know
I
Don't
Know
It's
Like
A
Game
Of
Twister
Right
Leg
Blue
Red
Leg
You
Know
You
Know
What
Whatever
The
It
Tells
You
Facial
Features
And
Characteristics
Tries
To
Describe
The
Scene
And
The
Way
People
Look
I
Mean
That's
The
Best
I
Can
Come
Up
With
Trying
To
Convey
Emotions
By
Trying
To
And
The
Conversation
That
Goes
On
Between
People
But
Trying
To
Simulate
The
Environment
To
Make
It
More
Realistic
Or
Something
Or
I
Don't
But
Were
There
Any
Code
Samples
Is
My
Question
I
Never
Saw
Anything
But
Videos
AVI's
And
Please
People
Go
To
This
Site
Oasis
Open
Dot
Org
Find
Human
Markup
Language
And
Look
At
These
Videos
There
Is
No
Words
To
Describe
These
Guys
Are
X
XML
Nuts
I
Mean
They
Have
Another
Page
Here
That
Is
Legal
XML
And
They
Describe
It
As
Framework
For
Global
Sharing
Of
Criminal
And
Terrorist
Evidence
XML
Specification
Will
Deliver
Reliable
Authentication
And
Auditing
To
Safeguard
Privacy
And
Increase
Effectiveness
Of
Lawful
Intercepts
And
They
Call
It
Legal
XML
Lawful
Intercepts
XML
And
They
Start
Talking
About
Homeland
Security
And
All
Kinds
Of
Garbage
Oh
Man
They
Are
Real
Crackpots
And
All
They
Do
Is
Smoke
XML
All
Day
Yeah
And
I
Guess
The
Whole
Site
I
Guess
That's
What
Their
Big
Thing
Is
All
These
XML
Products
Projects
Excuse
Me
But
The
Thing
Is
Like
I
Don't
Know
That
One
Sounds
Pretty
Stupid
Too
I
Mean
I
Assume
There's
Got
To
Be
A
Couple
Good
On
There
I
Haven't
Looked
Through
The
Whole
Site
I
Just
Basically
Researched
This
One
Because
It
Sounded
So
Dumb
I
Mean
Do
We
Really
Need
A
Committee
Of
People
To
Sit
Down
And
Establish
A
Standard
For
Emoticons
I
Mean
Is
That
Really
Necessary
Do
We
Need
Is
The
Lack
Of
Having
An
Emoticon
Standard
Really
A
Problem
With
The
World
That
We
Need
To
Have
Our
Best
Minds
And
Forming
A
Technical
Committee
To
Come
Up
With
A
Way
To
Make
You
Be
A
Wink
Via
XML
Is
That
Really
Bureaucracy
That
Creates
This
Thing
Oh
They
Probably
Got
Some
Kind
Of
Government
Funding
Oh
Yeah
They
Probably
Do
I
Mean
You
Know
They
Do
Yeah
I
Mean
What
I
Don
Know
What
In
The
Hell
They
What
About
This
What
How
About
How
About
You
Still
Have
Human
Interaction
With
People
How
About
You
Actually
Talk
To
People
Face
To
Face
Or
Over
The
Phone
You
Can
Descript
You
Can
Get
The
Feel
Of
How
Someone
Is
Talking
By
Their
Voice
On
The
Phone
Can
You
Tell
That
I'm
Disgusted
At
The
Waste
Of
Time
By
Listening
To
My
Voice
I
Think
You
Can
LOL
Yeah
I
Have
To
Spell
Out
LOL
Seriously
I
Don't
It's
Like
And
Here
Just
Fundamentally
This
Is
Once
Again
Fundamentally
Flawed
To
Me
How
Can
Okay
Let
Go
Back
To
This
Quote
For
You
The
Goal
Is
To
Preserve
The
Fidelity
Of
Human
Interactions
And
Reduce
Misinterpretations
So
I
Guess
If
They
Use
Some
Sarcastic
Comment
You
Can
Put
The
Wink
In
There
Like
Basically
It's
A
Come
On
Like
That's
Going
To
Reduce
Misinterpretations
I
Tell
You
What
You
Know
What
How
Is
It
Going
To
Reduce
Misinterpretations
When
You
Can't
See
The
Person
On
Other
Side
Or
Know
What
They're
Talking
About
Inferring
Referring
To
Denoting
Without
Seeing
Them
All
That
It
Means
Is
They
Put
In
The
Wink
Emoticon
That
Means
Nothing
It
Means
They
Put
In
That
Code
They
Could
Be
On
The
Other
End
Of
The
Speaker
Phone
Or
The
Live
Chat
Or
Whatever
Winking
In
Each
Other
Going
Look
At
The
Sucker
We
Got
On
The
Line
He
Think
We're
Playing
Along
Because
We
Sent
This
Human
ML
Wink
Or
Dance
Or
Dancing
Indian
With
The
Butter
Knife
In
Her
Hand
Or
Whatever
The
Hell
They're
Doing
With
This
Damn
Stuff
It's
Lying
All
You
Got
To
Do
Is
Put
The
Code
Up
There
That
You
Want
To
Portray
How
Does
That
Reduce
Misinterpretation
Or
Preserve
The
Fidelity
Of
Human
Interactions
It's
Nothing
But
Lying
Via
XML
But
This
You
Can
You
Can
Have
Yeah
Exactly
I
Don't
Know
How
This
Is
Supposed
To
There's
Absolutely
Nothing
That's
Going
To
Stop
People
From
Putting
On
A
Fake
Smile
And
Lie
Behind
Their
Teeth
Behind
Some
Pseudo
Markup
Language
It's
Just
Not
I
Mean
It's
Just
A
Silly
Concept
It's
Not
Going
To
Accomplish
Anything
Other
Than
Make
Some
False
Useless
Standard
That
A
Nobody
Will
Use
B
Even
If
They
Use
It
They're
Not
Going
To
Believe
It
And
C
It's
Stupid
Yeah
I think
There should
Be an
Internet
Explorer
Plugin
For
It
Though
Oh
Yeah
There
Probably
Will
Be
Yeah
There
Probably
Now
Here
Enough
See
This
Is
My
Mind
Is
I
Think
My
Mind
Is
Demented
Or
Damaged
Or
Something
Because
You
Know
What
Popped
Into
My
Head
How
Long
Before
The
Porn
Industry
Takes
This
On
Oh
Yeah
Of
Course
How
Long
Before
We
Got
Porn
Using
These
Human
Markup
Language
Interactions
It
You know
I don't
I just
Don't
Even
Want
To
Touch
That
With
A
Ten
Foot
Pole
I
Don't
Even
Want
To
Go
There
That
Could
Get
So
Ugly
I
Thought
This
Was
A
Family
Show
And
You're
Talking
About
Your
Ten
Foot
Pole
Oh
Well
You
Know
I'm
Just
Saying
My
Back
Would
Hurt
But
Never
Mind
Let
Me
Let
Me
Just
Point
Out
One
Thing
About
This
Site
This
Is
Actually
The
First
Time
I've
Seen
The
Oasis
Open
.org
They're
Not
Complete
Idiots
On
This
Site
They
Do
Have
A
Couple
Of
XML
Formats
On
Here
That
Makes
Sense
It
Seems
Like
This
Is
Like
Some
Type
Of
XML
Portal
Right
They're
Just
Supporting
And
Giving
These
Projects
Just
Like
Source
Forge
Gives
A
Place
For
All
Those
Open
Source
Projects
Or
Fresh
Meet
Or
They're
Just
A
Place
That
All
People
To
Put
Them
All
Together
In
One
Location
Right
So
Yeah
I
Am
Not
In
Any
Way
Bashing
That
Site
I'm
Only
Talking
About
This
Human
Markup
Language
Okay
Way
A
Uniform
Way
To
Describe
Application
Security
Vulnerabilities
Pretty
Cool
Stuff
But
Human
ML
Nah
It's
A
Crack
Of
Shit
Yeah
I'm
Hoping
That
Somewhere
In
There
Are
Some
Good
If
Not
Great
Projects
So
I'm
Not
The
Site
Itself
May
Be
Very
Useful
And
Have
Some
Good
Information
On
It
Yeah
I
Think
If
You
You'll
Be
Surprised
Like
Some
Of
The
Stuff
That
You
Might
Just
Glance
Over
It
First
If
You
Go
In
A
Little
Deeper
There
Is
Some
Really
Cool
Stuff
On
This
Page
I'm
Actually
Pretty
Impressed
Yeah
But
The
Human
Markup
Language
Is
Not
One
Of
And
You
Know
What
I
Haven't
Done
I
Don't
Think
I've
Done
This
In
A
Long
Time
I
Think
It's
Time
I
Handed
Out
The
Fuck
Nut
Of
Souls
Into
Creating
Bullshit
Posts
And
Posting
AVI
That's
Their
Problem
You
Know
There's
People
Out
There
That
Say
The
Same
Thing
About
Us
These
Guys
Put
Their
Heart
And
Soul
In
This
Radio
Show
And
They're
Posting
In
Their
Hacking
Forums
Yeah
Damn
Right
We
Do
Maybe
They
Feel
As
Strongly
About
Their
Human
Markup
As
We
Do
About
Hacking
You
Know
Good
For
Them
They're
Spending
A
They
Could
Be
Doing
Useful
Things
Like
Working
At
McDonald's
I
Was
Trying
To
Backpedal
And
Be
Polite
For
Them
But
I
Just
Dude
I
Can't
That's
Just
The
Biggest
Joke
Maybe
You'll
Get
An
Email
Somebody
Will
Explain
The
Whole
Thing
And
It'll
Just
Open
Your
Eyes
Yeah
Maybe
I'm
Missing
The
You
Can't
Understand
Right
Now
Yeah
Because
You
Know
I
Yeah
Never
Mind
Did
I
Mention
Nobody
Would
Even
Have
Any
Idea
What
It
Was
Supposed
To
Do
Yeah
You
Know
And
Actually
This
Project
If
You
Go
Back
And
Look
At
That
Site
I
Think
They've
Been
Around
Since
99
Oh
Really
It
Was
Originally
Started
And
Still
Going
On
With
It
And
You
Know
What
And
Actually
Let
Me
Think
About
Like
Let
Me
Think
Of
It
Like
This
These
Guys
Probably
Did
Get
Hundreds
Of
Thousands
Of
Dollars
In
Government
Grant
Money
To
Study
This
So
Who's
The
Fool
Now
The
Guy
On
The
Hacking
Radio
Show
Who
Doesn't
Make
Jack
Squat
Or
The
Guys
Rolling
In
Hundreds
Of
Thousand
Dollars
For
Research
Money
Probably
Getting
Good
Paying
Jobs
At
A
University
On
Top
Of
That
Suddenly
Maybe
I'm
Not
The
Suddenly
Maybe
They're
Not
The
Fools
After
All
No
They're
The
Fools
Yeah
Sorry
You never
Know
Though
If
It's
All
Just
A
Scam
Hey
More
Power
To
Yeah
If
It's
All
Just
A
Scam
That
Would
Be
Pretty
Sweet
That
We
Need
To
Come
Up
With
Something
Like
That
I
Was
Just
Going
To
Say
That
That's
After
The
Show
Topic
That's
A
Good
And
That's
A
Good
Transition
Now
To
The
Closing
Up
The
Show
Because
We
Are
About
It
Time
I
Think
So
Shouts
You got
Shouts
This
Week
I
Want
To
Shout
Out
Dool and
Bland
The
Article
I
Mentioned
Earlier
Really
Getting
Out
There
They're
Getting
Tons
Of
Hits
Old
School
Freak
Is
Blowing
Up
The
Beginning
Of
This
Month
As
Getting
Lots
Of
Hits
As
This
Is
Hitting
Out
Some
Of
Those
Linux
Sites
Out
There
Some
Of
The
Operating
System
Sites
People
Checking
It
Out
Which
Is
Good
For
Us
More
Exposure
More
People
That
Read
It
More
People
That
Learn
It
More
People
That
Understand
What
Hacking
Is
About
Very
Good
Thing
So
I
Give
My
Shout
Out
To
Them
For
Getting
That
Article
Out
There
Excellent
I
Give
My
Shout
Out
To
Nick
84
Because
Nick
84
Schooled
Me
On
Some
Masters
Stuff
That
I
Was
Kind
Of
Hazy
On
Today
And
He
Told
Me
Some
Vulnerabilities
About
One
Of
His
IP
Phones
And
He
Has
All
That
Stuff
Up
On
His
Website
Root
Secure
Dot
Net
Go
To
It
It's
The
Shizzle
And
Let
Think
Decoder
And
Still
Ho
And
Code
Monkey
Because
They
Are
The
Elite
Shizzle
Yeah
Nick
He's
A
Bright
Guy
Too
He's
Over
On
My
FL2600
I'm
Using
His
News
Feed
From
RootSecure.net
On
Our
Site
Over
There
Because
He's
Got
That
All
Nice
And
Laid
Out
For
Us
So
Just
Pull
In
His
News
Feed
And
If
Anybody
Wants
That
For
Their
Sites
I'm
Sure
He's
Happy
To
Oblige
You
Can
Get
That
Information
Like
You
Said
RootSecure.net
Very
Cool
And
We
Did
We
Actually
Opened
Up
This
Episode
For
A
Lot
Of
User
Feedback
If
You've
Got
Upcoming
Shows
Follow
Up
On
If
We
Get
Some
More
Information
Or
Forwarded
On
To
In
Theory
Whoever
If
It's
Something
To
Go
Directly
To
Them
And
Articles
Again
I'm
Going
To
Push
For
Articles
If
You've
Got
Article
Ideas
Now
I
Gotta
Say
I
Don't
Want
People
To
I
Don't
Want
People
To
Be
Afraid
To
Send
In
Articles
And
Don't
Be
I
Don't
Want
You
To
Worry
About
Whether
It's
Going
To
Be
Good
Enough
Or
Whether
It's
Something
That
We
Want
Or
What
The
Subject
Matter
Is
Send
In
The
Articles
I
Mean
I'm
Very
Open
Minded
I'm
Glad
To
Take
A
Look
And
I'm
Glad
To
Give
Feedback
And
Help
Guide
These
Articles
Or
You
Know
If
It's
Something
We
Can't
Use
In
This
Issue
Or
Upcoming
Issues
Or
If
We
Want
I'll
Help
You
Get
It
Published
Somewhere
Else
Don't
Be
Afraid
To
Send
In
Articles
I'm
Glad
To
Help
Out
I'm
Glad
To
Proofread
I'm
Glad
To
See
The
Information
So
Don't
Think
That
First
Of
Don't
Think
That
It's
Just
A
DDP
Thing
That
Because
We
Write
A lot
Of
Articles
That
You
Have
To
Write
A lot
Of
Articles
Or
Write
The
Same
Type
Or
Style
Or
Anything
So
If
You
Do
Have
An
Idea
For
An
Article
Or
You
Do
Have
Some
Articles
You
Want
To
Take
A
Look
At
Send
Them
To
Articles
At
Bin
Rev.com
And
We'll
Be
Glad
To
Take
A look
At
Them
Oh
There's
A
Little
Matter
Of
A
Big
Announcement
I
Was
Going
To
Make
On
The
Show
Isn't
There
No
I
Don't
Remember
Anything
Yeah
Oh
You
What
That
I
Thought
It
Was
But
Something
Slipped
My
Mind
Well
I
Guess
We'll
Go
Into
The
Closing
Music
Which
Is
From
Bad
Spella
The
World's
Tallest
Midget
And
We're
Going
To
Close
With
That
And
The
Big
Announcement
Is
Going
To
Be
On
April
15th
That
Is
Let's
See
This
Is
The
Six
We
Said
So
That
Is
Nine
Days
Away
April
15th
Tax
Day
Oh
Joy
My
Favorite
Day
Of
Year
Everybody
Well
It
Will
Be
Now
Because
April
15th
DDP
Hack
TV
Episode
One
And
Until
Then
We
Will
See
You
Next
Week
Same
Hack
Time
Same
Hack
Channel
,
At
Time
Plan
Time
Day
Time
Than
Time
Thank you.