WEBVTT

00:00.000 --> 00:09.060
This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.

00:09.480 --> 00:15.140
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you

00:15.140 --> 00:20.400
in a fag pose, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in

00:20.400 --> 00:26.640
my six foe, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, on the

00:26.640 --> 00:32.080
out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero,

00:32.300 --> 00:37.060
in a flash I'll screw you on burning dream cats, you need some ISO, let me through my

00:37.060 --> 00:42.480
hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught the

00:42.480 --> 00:48.880
love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, cause CG, it's all gonna

00:48.880 --> 00:53.340
be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattle in your

00:53.340 --> 00:57.760
bones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ, leave your fight on your

00:57.760 --> 01:03.200
back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

01:03.560 --> 01:10.780
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIPs,

01:10.780 --> 01:13.820
SIS, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.

01:14.820 --> 01:18.300
Hello everyone and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio.

01:18.300 --> 01:26.020
My name is Stankdog, and today we are going to be talking about something very interesting.

01:26.900 --> 01:35.280
Alright, that was my pathetic attempt at a Sigmund Freud impression, because we're gonna

01:35.280 --> 01:41.040
actually be talking about some pretty deep stuff coming up later on with my new co-host

01:41.040 --> 01:43.260
today for the show, Desius, welcome to the show.

01:43.840 --> 01:44.460
Hey, thanks.

01:44.460 --> 01:48.880
And thank you for being on, cause we are going to talk about something that you have a lot

01:48.880 --> 01:53.180
of experience with, and I have a lot of questions about, so we're gonna go over some of that

01:53.180 --> 01:57.440
later on, specifically memetics, but of course we will go into some detail later on.

01:58.040 --> 02:02.380
But before we do that, and again, I apologize for that horrible impression, I didn't say

02:02.380 --> 02:04.960
it was a good, a good Freud impression.

02:06.900 --> 02:09.100
If you would indulge me and go through some email with me.

02:09.800 --> 02:10.340
Let's do it.

02:10.340 --> 02:13.980
Alright, actually before that, let's do a couple other little housekeeping things and

02:13.980 --> 02:14.900
get these out of the way.

02:15.920 --> 02:21.000
First of all, I mentioned last episode that we had the magazine page up and ready to go.

02:21.400 --> 02:26.820
Well, I've updated the pages with the cover image, sample PDFs that you can look at, browse

02:26.820 --> 02:30.780
through, see what the topic is, see what the magazine looks like, and all the source code

02:30.780 --> 02:32.180
and all the scripts from the magazine.

02:32.300 --> 02:38.220
You don't have to retype in all that code, specifically Slipmode and his IP tables code that's in there

02:38.220 --> 02:42.040
that's a couple pages long, so you don't have to type all that in.

02:42.420 --> 02:47.300
You can just go straight to magazine.binrev.com and go to whatever issue you want, this is

02:47.300 --> 02:52.540
true for all issues, and download that code to save you hopefully a lot of typing time.

02:52.680 --> 02:55.560
And then modify it as you see fit or as you need it.

02:55.580 --> 02:56.600
That's the whole point of it.

02:56.600 --> 03:01.100
And since I brought his name up, Shouts to Slipmode, if you aren't already listening,

03:01.200 --> 03:06.520
go over and check out In the Now, his radio show over there at Slipnet.

03:08.220 --> 03:10.160
And what else did I want to talk about here?

03:10.240 --> 03:12.920
Oh, Hack Radio is coming up very soon.

03:13.000 --> 03:17.960
We've also been letting you guys know that that's coming, and it still is very, very soon.

03:17.960 --> 03:24.300
I am waiting now for people to send me emails if you want airtime on the station.

03:24.420 --> 03:28.740
I'm trying to work out a schedule so everybody gets time, where they want, when they want,

03:28.820 --> 03:30.320
the days they want, et cetera, et cetera.

03:31.020 --> 03:35.460
I've gotten a couple people who have emailed me, but I also have a couple of noticeable absences.

03:36.180 --> 03:40.880
So please don't assume that your show is going to be on there, that I'm just going to take it.

03:40.940 --> 03:43.240
I need you to email me because I need other information.

03:43.900 --> 03:47.280
I want to know what your official description and stuff is going to be.

03:47.280 --> 03:51.040
I'm not going to make stuff up and have that kind of weird situation going on.

03:51.120 --> 03:57.620
So please, if you go into the forums, forums.binrev.com, and in the Hacker Media Forum,

03:58.460 --> 04:03.420
there is a description there of what I need from everybody, and I need you to email me that stuff

04:03.420 --> 04:05.820
so I can start making a schedule.

04:06.300 --> 04:08.700
And frankly, I'm going to start making a schedule.

04:08.880 --> 04:10.480
By the time you hear this, I will have started.

04:11.320 --> 04:13.380
And I guess we're going to have to go first come, first serve.

04:13.540 --> 04:16.760
So please, the sooner you get that stuff into me, the sooner we can go on.

04:16.760 --> 04:23.520
And if you have sent it in to me, obviously, then we've got it, and we will see what we can work out for everybody.

04:27.020 --> 04:30.360
Third thing I wanted to bring on, and I'm not going to get mad about this.

04:30.360 --> 04:36.260
I'm a little disappointed that I had to take this step, but I've had a problem, and I've mentioned it on the show,

04:37.100 --> 04:42.620
where we have a hacker's gallery on the site.

04:43.480 --> 04:48.540
And in the forums, we've uploaded a lot of avatars, and we give people room to store their own avatars,

04:49.260 --> 04:52.000
and emoticons, smileys, whatever you want to call them.

04:52.000 --> 04:58.640
And over the past year plus, people have been very liberal in their use of them.

04:59.320 --> 05:00.160
So, you know what?

05:00.220 --> 05:05.380
I don't really mind if people use, you know, link over to the site, or show it, or email it to people,

05:05.440 --> 05:06.820
because that's only a few hits here and there.

05:06.900 --> 05:07.620
That's fine.

05:08.140 --> 05:10.740
But we've had a problem that's just been growing and growing,

05:10.820 --> 05:14.700
where people are just absolutely leeching the graphics from the site.

05:14.700 --> 05:16.360
And it's starting to add up.

05:17.020 --> 05:19.300
So, you know, I came on the show a few times.

05:19.380 --> 05:22.120
I try to be polite about it and just, you know, do the honor system.

05:22.280 --> 05:24.280
Kind of just, you guys, don't take advantage of it.

05:24.300 --> 05:26.060
I'm not here to host your image.

05:26.400 --> 05:30.140
There are tons of image servers out there that that's their job, and that's what they do.

05:30.240 --> 05:31.080
You can go find them.

05:31.280 --> 05:33.100
That's not what I'm trying to provide here.

05:33.920 --> 05:38.240
So, I just finally decided that I'm going to have to do something about it.

05:38.240 --> 05:44.080
So, I have blocked deep linking to any of the images, at least in the gallery and in the forums.

05:44.700 --> 05:46.620
The link boxes still work and stuff like that,

05:46.680 --> 05:48.680
but all the other graphics are being blocked out now,

05:48.760 --> 05:52.460
because it's just, the bandwidth is starting to add up.

05:52.500 --> 05:55.580
And we need every little bit with Hack TV and with all the radio shows.

05:55.660 --> 05:56.560
We need every little bit.

05:56.680 --> 06:01.080
And secondly, frankly, I'm a little bit insulted at the way people are doing some of this stuff.

06:01.140 --> 06:06.040
They're using emoticons from my site and other people's forums and other people's sites.

06:06.820 --> 06:09.780
I mean, do you really think they're pulling something over on me?

06:09.840 --> 06:11.260
Do you think I don't see this happening?

06:12.280 --> 06:14.460
So, anyway, I've let it go for a while, but you know what?

06:15.000 --> 06:16.340
It ends. It ends now.

06:16.960 --> 06:18.140
Do you ever have people do that?

06:18.180 --> 06:20.280
Has everybody ever, like, leeched graphics from your site?

06:21.020 --> 06:25.480
Well, I don't have that many graphics, but I understand, you know,

06:25.520 --> 06:28.580
information wants to be free, but bandwidth is expensive.

06:28.840 --> 06:32.120
Yeah, you know, it comes to a point where you have to do something.

06:32.600 --> 06:32.900
Uh-huh.

06:32.900 --> 06:39.120
Well, it's cool that you went into your website and actually implemented a technical solution

06:39.120 --> 06:40.760
for preventing deep linking.

06:41.060 --> 06:44.920
There are so many news sites that have, you know, gone out and filed lawsuits.

06:45.280 --> 06:47.340
I was going to say, I was going to sue everybody, but...

06:47.340 --> 06:52.020
Well, I mean, the thing is that, you know, I always get frustrated when I see some site

06:52.020 --> 06:56.780
suing people because they're getting deep linked, and, you know, it's a few lines in their Apache

06:56.780 --> 07:01.320
configuration to prevent that from happening, and, you know, I guess that's too much trouble

07:01.320 --> 07:02.000
for them to do it.

07:02.360 --> 07:03.360
Yep, exactly.

07:03.600 --> 07:04.820
I just didn't want to have to.

07:04.880 --> 07:09.280
I've known all along, you know, I just didn't want to have to do it, but, well, I guess I

07:09.280 --> 07:09.780
have to do it.

07:10.340 --> 07:10.600
Yeah.

07:10.800 --> 07:11.960
I'm still going to sue everybody.

07:14.960 --> 07:16.600
Hey, man, I need the money for bandwidth.

07:16.720 --> 07:17.600
What do you want to know?

07:17.960 --> 07:19.780
Hey, that's a great revenue generating technique.

07:19.880 --> 07:20.240
Exactly.

07:21.140 --> 07:21.500
Exactly.

07:21.680 --> 07:26.100
Fish them in, wait a few months and trap them, and then spring the lawsuit on them.

07:26.120 --> 07:26.660
There you go.

07:26.660 --> 07:29.220
Yeah, we won't go off into that tangent.

07:29.220 --> 07:34.900
Oh, okay, but that's it for the general housekeeping stuff.

07:35.000 --> 07:39.020
Now, we're going to jump into a few emails, and there's some, we actually had several,

07:39.140 --> 07:39.720
I cut out a few.

07:39.820 --> 07:44.520
Wait a minute, let me play the email intro, our new email intro music first.

07:59.220 --> 08:10.440
All right, and now let's do the email before I was, I started talking before I played our

08:10.440 --> 08:11.160
theme music there.

08:12.720 --> 08:17.300
We got some really good emails, and we're going to talk about some of them today.

08:17.380 --> 08:21.280
I'm going to save some of them for an upcoming show to make sure we have enough time later

08:21.280 --> 08:22.460
on to talk about some stuff.

08:22.460 --> 08:27.240
And because the ones that we got were pretty good and pretty in-depth, so I wanted to make

08:27.240 --> 08:29.340
sure we gave enough time to each of them.

08:29.940 --> 08:35.060
And our first one comes from, gosh, I hope I pronounce this, I think it's Drakken.

08:35.640 --> 08:36.560
It might be Drakken.

08:36.620 --> 08:37.440
I think it's Drakken.

08:38.100 --> 08:42.220
Who says, Stankdog, I've been listening to BinRev for a while now.

08:42.320 --> 08:46.700
I think you've got a great program and am amazed at the new and exciting content you're

08:46.700 --> 08:50.840
able to provide on a weekly basis while still maintaining a job and a life.

08:50.840 --> 08:53.000
The juggling act, well, I don't know about the life.

08:53.080 --> 08:54.020
I didn't guarantee that part.

08:54.620 --> 08:58.480
The juggling act between your own individual hacking interest, your life and job, and the

08:58.480 --> 09:00.380
content from the show must be a delicate one.

09:00.460 --> 09:01.240
Thanks for all that you do.

09:02.280 --> 09:04.560
Yeah, you just don't know.

09:06.680 --> 09:10.760
I've recently checked out the BinRev, and this is the reason I have this email on here.

09:10.820 --> 09:14.680
I recently checked out the BinRev RFA PBX that the DDP has set up.

09:15.080 --> 09:18.960
I think it's pretty damn sweet, especially the ability to conference and listen to the

09:18.960 --> 09:19.880
archive shows.

09:20.720 --> 09:23.160
Admittedly, I don't know much about them, PBXs.

09:23.600 --> 09:25.280
However, I'm anxious to learn.

09:25.700 --> 09:28.540
I'm going to be conducting a lot of my own research upon the topic.

09:28.980 --> 09:32.640
I think it would be really cool, though, if you discussed on BinRev some of the issues

09:32.640 --> 09:33.980
concerning a PBX.

09:34.320 --> 09:35.960
How difficult would it be to set one up?

09:36.120 --> 09:37.780
What type of software would be required?

09:37.860 --> 09:41.080
How feasible is it for an individual or group of individuals to set one up?

09:41.620 --> 09:46.080
My friend and I, whom you may remember from the war typing and Wi-Fi antenna email sent in,

09:46.080 --> 09:51.340
have been considering establishing a PBX with a lot of our favorite music and self-generated

09:51.340 --> 09:52.960
content located on it.

09:53.360 --> 09:57.880
That way, when we're bored, in class, or anywhere else, we have our entire archive to listen to.

09:58.520 --> 10:00.780
Thanks for your help in advance.

10:00.780 --> 10:02.500
And again, that was from Dracken.

10:04.060 --> 10:05.320
Now, you know what?

10:05.320 --> 10:09.560
But that is an excellent suggestion, because you're absolutely right.

10:09.680 --> 10:14.300
That could be a whole show and then some dedicated to talking about that.

10:14.820 --> 10:16.880
I'm going to try to talk to Not Theory.

10:18.040 --> 10:21.460
And also, the DDP, PBX, you called it.

10:21.560 --> 10:22.360
I guess that's okay.

10:22.500 --> 10:22.840
I don't think.

10:23.200 --> 10:24.380
Bell's Mind, PBX.

10:24.500 --> 10:27.160
That's Not Theory's box, so just to make sure he gets credit.

10:27.240 --> 10:28.840
That's Not Theory who set all that stuff up.

10:29.800 --> 10:35.200
And I'm going to try to get him on a show again soon, whenever we can work out a schedule with him,

10:35.280 --> 10:36.140
because he's a busy guy.

10:37.500 --> 10:44.280
And he's running, let's see, that could go into so much detail, because of not only the setup.

10:45.140 --> 10:48.700
You know, I'd like to do an overview of what it is, and how, and why it works, and the setup,

10:48.700 --> 10:53.720
and maybe some general programming behind it of how you can write scripts and stuff,

10:53.800 --> 10:56.180
because I know that Not Theory really gets into that a lot.

10:56.180 --> 11:01.380
And even how it can, in turn, interact with other pieces of hardware,

11:01.540 --> 11:08.320
like Voice over IP boxes and things like that, separate from the actual Asterisk box itself, Asterisk box.

11:09.020 --> 11:13.000
So, yeah, I'm going to have to get Not Theory on here and talk about not only the Asterisk box,

11:13.040 --> 11:14.000
but any other solutions.

11:14.100 --> 11:16.960
But mostly Asterisk is the one we really have fallen in love with.

11:17.720 --> 11:21.720
Do you have any experience now with the Asterisk software, Desius?

11:21.720 --> 11:24.120
I have some experience.

11:24.640 --> 11:30.200
I haven't delved in it too deeply, but I'm actually in the planning stages of a project

11:30.200 --> 11:35.140
to kind of do some analysis of Voice over IP security.

11:35.840 --> 11:41.020
And I think that, you know, we'll be taking a look at that box and some other missions as well.

11:41.020 --> 11:47.040
But that's, you know, it's a really interesting software package.

11:47.340 --> 11:50.340
And those guys have gone out to a number of the hacker cons in the southeast

11:50.340 --> 11:54.720
and talked about their project and what they're doing with it and what it's capable of.

11:54.920 --> 12:00.680
And, you know, it's really neat to have a PBX and to have one that's designed, you know,

12:00.720 --> 12:03.240
with the idea of people playing around with it in mind.

12:03.240 --> 12:08.540
And it's got a lot of interesting features that, you know, a commercial PBX probably wouldn't have

12:08.540 --> 12:15.160
that, you know, you might want if you were setting up some kind of personal thing for your friends.

12:15.940 --> 12:16.340
Right.

12:16.440 --> 12:19.080
And the fact that you can develop for it, you know?

12:19.440 --> 12:19.660
Yeah.

12:19.760 --> 12:22.800
That's not something they normally, that's not normally an option you have.

12:23.140 --> 12:24.800
That's certainly true.

12:25.020 --> 12:28.180
This, you know, Voice over IP is a really exciting thing.

12:28.180 --> 12:33.320
You know, the reality is that over the next 10 years, a lot of changes are going to happen to the phone system.

12:33.620 --> 12:36.220
And, you know, it's all going to be about Voice over IP.

12:36.600 --> 12:43.820
And it's a very exciting thing to get involved with right now, like, in its early stages and be able to tinker with it.

12:44.420 --> 12:44.860
Yeah.

12:44.940 --> 12:49.980
And without going off on another tangent that you and I probably both would just jump on,

12:50.180 --> 12:52.820
if we can just keep the government out of it.

12:53.440 --> 12:54.740
Oh, man, well, yeah.

12:54.740 --> 12:59.100
And there's been a lot of movement on that front lately.

12:59.620 --> 13:07.660
The FCC has ruled that the FBI can, or rather that people providing Voice over IP services

13:07.660 --> 13:14.300
have to provide the FBI with access to their networks the same way that people running POTS networks

13:14.300 --> 13:16.500
have to provide the FBI with access to their networks.

13:17.360 --> 13:17.420
Wow.

13:17.760 --> 13:23.580
So that was a pretty controversial development.

13:23.580 --> 13:26.900
But, I don't know, I could probably talk for 30 minutes about that stuff.

13:27.100 --> 13:28.060
Yeah, I know.

13:28.120 --> 13:28.500
That's what I said.

13:28.580 --> 13:32.100
We don't want to go off on that one because, you're right, it could be a whole show.

13:32.260 --> 13:35.340
They actually, that was, I thought that was actually shot down at first,

13:35.380 --> 13:39.300
but they eventually did get that through, that they have access.

13:39.460 --> 13:39.520
Yeah.

13:39.520 --> 13:43.640
The FCC voted 5-0 quite recently, like a few weeks ago.

13:44.040 --> 13:44.440
Great.

13:45.600 --> 13:47.280
I can dig it up.

13:47.280 --> 13:48.600
Oh, my goodness.

13:49.400 --> 13:51.520
That's just freaking wonderful.

13:52.800 --> 13:54.140
Oh, man, what a downer.

13:55.020 --> 13:57.240
Well, you know, that's where encryption comes in.

13:57.440 --> 14:01.540
That's, you know, until they ban that too, until they outlaw that.

14:01.540 --> 14:06.000
Anyway, yes, thank you for the suggestion to get back on a lighter topic

14:06.000 --> 14:07.440
so I don't get pissed off.

14:07.800 --> 14:09.640
I mean, peeved or, yeah, whatever.

14:11.240 --> 14:12.280
Thank you for the suggestion.

14:12.400 --> 14:13.160
We are definitely going to try.

14:13.220 --> 14:15.360
I am really going to put that on a list.

14:15.480 --> 14:18.120
I'm going to put that on a future episode, no doubt about it.

14:18.120 --> 14:19.300
So thank you for the suggestion.

14:20.640 --> 14:23.520
Another email we got this week was from Exile.

14:24.620 --> 14:25.580
Exile says,

14:26.140 --> 14:30.240
Dear Stank Dog, I recall in episode 57, that was just last week,

14:31.300 --> 14:35.880
Nothari was speaking of how he would like to maybe see Apple's downfall.

14:36.300 --> 14:39.200
Well, it seems it's coming closer because in this news article,

14:39.720 --> 14:44.720
it describes the work of a Norwegian hacker who cracked some of Apple's multimedia technology.

14:44.920 --> 14:46.040
And then he provides a link.

14:46.040 --> 14:48.780
Believe me, you guys can go out there and find it.

14:48.780 --> 14:50.100
I'll put the link in the show notes eventually,

14:50.240 --> 14:51.620
but you can go out there and find it pretty easily.

14:51.720 --> 14:54.120
Just do a search for DVD John, John Johansson.

14:54.880 --> 14:58.500
It's the same person from the infamous DVD case.

15:00.180 --> 15:01.340
Anyway, Stank love the show.

15:01.460 --> 15:02.120
Keep up the good work.

15:02.200 --> 15:04.020
This is the first email I've ever sent you,

15:04.220 --> 15:05.840
and I hope it may be of some interest.

15:05.940 --> 15:08.620
I plan on buying the mag so I can see what other helpful things you have for the community.

15:08.880 --> 15:09.820
Farewell for now.

15:10.440 --> 15:12.100
Well, thank you very much for the email.

15:12.940 --> 15:15.140
First email of yours I've ever read on the air, obviously.

15:16.040 --> 15:19.380
Yeah, I don't know.

15:19.560 --> 15:21.820
Let me just not put words in anybody's mouth.

15:21.900 --> 15:28.500
I'm not sure that Not Theory requested or was calling for their downfall.

15:29.060 --> 15:29.660
He might.

15:29.740 --> 15:31.280
If we put him on the spot, he might want that.

15:31.400 --> 15:34.500
But I know he doesn't like them because they're proprietary hardware.

15:34.660 --> 15:37.560
And frankly, I kind of feel the same way to a certain extent.

15:37.560 --> 15:39.340
But that's the only thing they've got right now.

15:40.180 --> 15:45.740
You know, especially their operating system now is, you know, built on top of Unix backbone.

15:45.960 --> 15:49.280
So they're not even really fully developing their own operating system from the ground up.

15:49.320 --> 15:53.160
So they can't depend on software only or operating system to compete there.

15:53.160 --> 15:54.720
All they've got is their hardware.

15:55.860 --> 15:58.360
So I kind of understand it from a business perspective.

15:58.900 --> 16:01.100
It's either that or, you know, die.

16:01.520 --> 16:02.080
Go out of business.

16:02.700 --> 16:03.860
So I understand that.

16:03.860 --> 16:08.740
But what you're mentioning here, again, this is John Johansson.

16:10.220 --> 16:13.300
And this just happened, I think, a day or two ago.

16:14.220 --> 16:15.200
Maybe over the weekend.

16:15.680 --> 16:16.060
I'm sorry?

16:16.460 --> 16:17.200
It wasn't long ago.

16:17.200 --> 16:19.280
I think it was like the end of last week.

16:19.520 --> 16:20.600
Yeah, it was very, very...

16:20.600 --> 16:22.880
It's definitely since the last episode that this has happened.

16:23.560 --> 16:25.100
And what he has done here...

16:25.100 --> 16:29.820
And let me kind of back up because this is actually very interesting what he has done.

16:31.340 --> 16:32.380
This is not...

16:32.380 --> 16:35.680
Now, also not too recently, in the past year, there was another...

16:35.680 --> 16:39.320
You know, he had come up with another trick for iTunes itself.

16:40.080 --> 16:44.660
For the iPod, for iTunes, for Apple's iTunes system, which, honestly, I don't have a Mac,

16:44.720 --> 16:45.960
so I don't really know much about it.

16:46.300 --> 16:47.160
But this is not that.

16:47.220 --> 16:48.840
This is something new within the past week.

16:49.740 --> 16:52.100
And what he's figured out, though, is...

16:52.100 --> 16:53.900
I don't like the way that it was reported.

16:53.900 --> 16:55.680
I looked at three or four different stories on this,

16:55.780 --> 16:59.300
and they're making it sound like an iPod slash iTunes thing.

16:59.720 --> 17:01.600
And it's really not exactly.

17:01.800 --> 17:03.180
It's not so much that at all.

17:03.440 --> 17:10.740
What he's done is he's figured out a way not to crack iTunes itself or the encryption within iTunes,

17:10.880 --> 17:13.900
but the way iTunes...

17:13.900 --> 17:19.960
The way that the music is broadcast over Apple's hardware,

17:19.960 --> 17:22.480
they're access points that Microsoft...

17:22.480 --> 17:23.940
I almost said Microsoft.

17:24.180 --> 17:25.960
Whoa, that would have been...

17:25.960 --> 17:28.340
We do not want those two getting together.

17:29.480 --> 17:32.960
Actually, they are together, because does Microsoft still own a percentage or a small...

17:33.740 --> 17:35.560
It's a very strange relationship.

17:35.780 --> 17:40.980
Microsoft certainly sells its products for the Macintosh.

17:40.980 --> 17:43.800
It's interesting.

17:43.800 --> 17:47.980
There was that whole conspiracy theory that they sunk however many million dollars

17:47.980 --> 17:51.460
and bought shares of Apple back when it was struggling,

17:52.020 --> 17:55.800
and the conspiracy theory was that it was worth it for them to drop a few million into it

17:55.800 --> 18:00.820
to keep them around so that they couldn't cry that there was no competition.

18:01.540 --> 18:04.440
Instead of putting themselves as to be a true, obvious monopoly,

18:04.440 --> 18:08.500
the conspirators say that they bought Apple only to keep them around

18:08.500 --> 18:11.980
and dangle them around as a token operating system as competition.

18:13.320 --> 18:17.540
Well, I've got a Mac, and if that's the case, then I'm glad they did,

18:17.640 --> 18:19.680
because now I've got a really nice Unix workstation.

18:20.840 --> 18:21.560
You know what?

18:21.580 --> 18:23.280
I don't personally have a problem with Mac.

18:23.360 --> 18:25.160
I think Mac got pretty cool stuff.

18:25.500 --> 18:26.440
I just wish it wasn't...

18:27.320 --> 18:29.640
I wish other people made them, besides Apple.

18:29.940 --> 18:30.420
That's true.

18:30.480 --> 18:33.440
They went through a period of time, though, where I wasn't too happy with their stuff.

18:34.440 --> 18:40.060
Got me a little...

18:40.060 --> 18:40.860
I'll let you go ahead.

18:40.980 --> 18:41.740
Oh, I was just getting...

18:41.740 --> 18:43.480
Actually, I just took a sip of iced tea there.

18:44.220 --> 18:45.700
Well, I was going to say, you know,

18:46.000 --> 18:50.740
just to talk about this cryptography in the iTunes system

18:50.740 --> 18:54.040
and how it interacts with these access points.

18:55.000 --> 18:57.960
You know, and there's also another thing that happened in the last couple weeks

18:57.960 --> 19:03.340
where I think Real Media cracked Apple's DRM technology

19:03.340 --> 19:05.800
that they used to prevent you from playing iTunes,

19:06.000 --> 19:08.180
the songs you've purchased from iTunes on other players,

19:08.580 --> 19:10.960
and sort of released a compatible player,

19:11.200 --> 19:15.380
and Apple responded by patching the code so that they couldn't do that anymore.

19:15.500 --> 19:21.300
Oh, I think actually Real was selling songs that could be played on the iPod

19:21.300 --> 19:22.920
that used the iPod's DRM.

19:24.100 --> 19:25.920
But anyway, I mean, there is a...

19:25.920 --> 19:29.300
You know, I guess I have some concerns as this moves forward

19:29.300 --> 19:33.620
that, you know, this DRM technology, this encryption technology,

19:33.620 --> 19:38.340
is not just being used to prevent, you know,

19:38.420 --> 19:40.600
illegal copying of copyrighted music,

19:40.600 --> 19:44.100
but it's also kind of creating this platform walk-in

19:44.100 --> 19:47.040
where, you know, I've bought a lot of songs on iTunes,

19:47.040 --> 19:50.580
and, you know, if I wanted to buy another player

19:50.580 --> 19:53.480
instead of buying an iPod the next time I buy a music player,

19:53.700 --> 19:56.700
you know, I won't be able to play my songs on that new player.

19:56.820 --> 19:58.500
I'd have to repurchase all my songs.

19:58.720 --> 20:01.820
And, you know, if I wanted to stream my songs out to a device

20:01.820 --> 20:05.380
that was different than, you know, one of Apple's access points,

20:05.480 --> 20:06.420
you know, I couldn't do that.

20:06.420 --> 20:08.540
I would have to buy an Apple access point,

20:08.720 --> 20:10.360
or, you know, I was out of luck, you know,

20:10.960 --> 20:16.020
notwithstanding the encryption crack from a few days ago.

20:16.020 --> 20:20.400
But, you know, really things like this are the only thing

20:20.400 --> 20:22.520
that doesn't make me as worried about getting sort of

20:22.520 --> 20:25.100
walked into this platform, the fact that people are out there

20:25.100 --> 20:27.600
trying to, you know, kind of figuring this stuff out

20:27.600 --> 20:29.100
and providing tools, and, you know,

20:29.140 --> 20:32.300
if I decided I wanted to move to a different platform,

20:32.420 --> 20:34.800
I might be able to bring my music collection with me

20:34.800 --> 20:35.920
that I've purchased legitimately.

20:36.880 --> 20:38.840
So, I don't know, I'm kind of worried about that.

20:39.320 --> 20:41.960
Yeah, well, you know, it's like, it's an excellent point.

20:42.040 --> 20:45.740
The thing is, let's say, again, I said on the Forbes,

20:45.740 --> 20:48.240
on the show before, that I still,

20:48.420 --> 20:51.420
99 cents is still not quite low enough for me.

20:51.520 --> 20:52.980
My price point is 50 cents.

20:53.380 --> 20:55.220
I'll pay 50 cents for songs that I like.

20:55.780 --> 20:56.000
Yeah.

20:56.140 --> 20:57.960
Okay, and everybody has their individual price point.

20:58.020 --> 20:59.960
But let's say 99 cents is my price point,

21:00.080 --> 21:01.740
and I start buying these songs.

21:02.120 --> 21:04.880
You're absolutely right that I am locked in

21:04.880 --> 21:07.720
to the proprietary hardware that will portray

21:07.720 --> 21:09.340
these particular songs.

21:09.840 --> 21:11.600
What's to stop Apple from, you know,

21:11.600 --> 21:14.640
and don't tell me that the recording industry

21:14.640 --> 21:17.000
and the businesses are not going to do this

21:17.000 --> 21:18.460
because we've seen it in the past

21:18.460 --> 21:21.860
as increasing CD sales and CD prices and stuff go.

21:22.760 --> 21:24.080
What's to stop them next year

21:24.080 --> 21:27.180
from jumping the price up to $1.99 a song?

21:27.500 --> 21:28.360
And then $2.99.

21:28.620 --> 21:31.820
And then, oh, you can't buy individual songs anymore.

21:31.880 --> 21:34.260
You have to buy the whole album digitally through iTunes,

21:34.360 --> 21:35.180
and it's going to cost you,

21:35.380 --> 21:38.180
and eventually you're buying the same $16.99 album

21:38.180 --> 21:39.920
that you can only get through iTunes.

21:40.120 --> 21:41.060
And what is your other choice?

21:41.160 --> 21:43.000
Well, abandon your entire collection.

21:44.220 --> 21:47.220
You've sunk so much money into this particular format

21:47.220 --> 21:48.600
and this particular hardware

21:48.600 --> 21:50.520
that you're locked into it.

21:51.220 --> 21:51.900
Is there a way?

21:52.700 --> 21:53.780
Somebody email me,

21:53.880 --> 21:55.180
and maybe Desiis maybe knows this.

21:55.220 --> 21:56.540
Is there a way that at some point,

21:56.620 --> 21:57.880
let's say I decide, you know what?

21:58.300 --> 21:59.980
I don't like iTunes anymore

21:59.980 --> 22:01.320
because a new alternative,

22:01.820 --> 22:03.620
AugVorbis takes off,

22:04.020 --> 22:06.420
and they start making players open source

22:06.420 --> 22:07.920
that you can modify the players

22:07.920 --> 22:09.660
and put extra storage space,

22:09.820 --> 22:10.780
and it takes off,

22:10.840 --> 22:12.400
and AugVorbis takes off as a format,

22:12.500 --> 22:13.420
and I decide, yes,

22:13.900 --> 22:15.440
I'm switching over to that.

22:16.660 --> 22:17.760
Is there an option to do that?

22:17.840 --> 22:18.840
Can you burn?

22:18.940 --> 22:20.560
Can you get all of your iTunes stuff

22:20.560 --> 22:22.020
that you bought and paid for

22:22.020 --> 22:23.380
and validly own?

22:23.480 --> 22:24.120
Can you get those

22:24.120 --> 22:25.720
and convert them over to another format

22:25.720 --> 22:27.080
that you can buy on new hardware?

22:27.780 --> 22:28.760
Not legally.

22:29.080 --> 22:30.820
No, and that's ridiculous.

22:31.400 --> 22:33.460
There are some tools out there,

22:33.460 --> 22:35.500
but it's illegal to distribute them

22:35.500 --> 22:36.460
under the DMCA,

22:36.700 --> 22:39.320
so they're kind of transient.

22:39.580 --> 22:40.820
They're usually offshore

22:40.820 --> 22:42.320
and they're hard to get a hold of.

22:42.760 --> 22:44.160
There is some stuff out there,

22:44.420 --> 22:48.640
but it's definitely not straightforward.

22:48.980 --> 22:50.100
I mean, maybe you and I

22:50.100 --> 22:51.700
could get through the hoops,

22:51.940 --> 22:54.320
but a regular consumer couldn't.

22:54.720 --> 22:56.420
Yeah, and that's exactly why

22:56.420 --> 22:57.440
we're always preaching.

22:57.600 --> 22:59.240
We don't go into a lot of politics

22:59.240 --> 22:59.880
on the show,

22:59.880 --> 23:01.460
but that's one of the ones

23:01.460 --> 23:03.380
that just affects us so much

23:03.380 --> 23:04.560
that it's just ridiculous,

23:05.320 --> 23:05.940
the DMCA.

23:06.140 --> 23:06.340
It's just,

23:07.080 --> 23:09.200
and this is an absolute example

23:09.200 --> 23:09.940
of it right here.

23:10.020 --> 23:11.240
If you don't think in a couple of years

23:11.240 --> 23:12.160
they have the potential

23:12.160 --> 23:13.000
to abuse this

23:13.000 --> 23:14.120
and people aren't going to be

23:14.120 --> 23:15.300
locked into this stuff,

23:15.980 --> 23:17.160
you're not thinking clearly.

23:17.280 --> 23:18.160
You're not thinking ahead.

23:18.560 --> 23:18.840
You're right,

23:18.920 --> 23:20.640
and this has absolutely nothing to do

23:20.640 --> 23:22.120
with intellectual property whatsoever.

23:22.460 --> 23:23.040
Yeah, I mean,

23:23.060 --> 23:23.900
it's a whole different,

23:24.320 --> 23:25.600
this is a business trick.

23:26.380 --> 23:26.920
But anyway,

23:27.040 --> 23:28.260
let me rein back in here

23:28.260 --> 23:29.840
because actually what

23:29.840 --> 23:32.580
John Johansson has done here,

23:32.840 --> 23:33.560
DVD John,

23:33.640 --> 23:34.440
I hate it when the media

23:34.440 --> 23:35.120
calls him that,

23:35.360 --> 23:36.800
slapping, you know,

23:37.060 --> 23:37.920
the homeless hacker,

23:38.040 --> 23:38.840
DVD John,

23:38.940 --> 23:39.120
you know,

23:39.180 --> 23:39.500
all these,

23:40.200 --> 23:41.160
they just make up

23:41.160 --> 23:42.020
these names for people.

23:42.900 --> 23:43.980
What he did now,

23:44.060 --> 23:45.060
I thought was really cool

23:45.060 --> 23:47.800
because it wasn't so much

23:47.800 --> 23:49.440
dealing with the file itself.

23:49.820 --> 23:50.880
What he found out

23:50.880 --> 23:54.600
is that Apple's airport access points,

23:54.600 --> 23:55.920
their airport hardware,

23:55.920 --> 23:58.160
will apparently work

23:58.160 --> 24:00.340
and interact with the iPod

24:00.340 --> 24:01.700
and let you stream music

24:01.700 --> 24:04.020
to a stereo in your house,

24:04.100 --> 24:04.600
for example.

24:05.180 --> 24:06.580
And I know they make a tiny one

24:06.580 --> 24:07.700
that you can plug into the iPod

24:07.700 --> 24:08.340
into your car.

24:08.420 --> 24:09.120
I don't know if that's the same,

24:09.160 --> 24:10.380
I would assume it's the same protocol,

24:10.500 --> 24:11.560
just a smaller scale,

24:12.500 --> 24:15.200
that will let you play your songs

24:15.200 --> 24:16.020
on your iPod

24:16.020 --> 24:17.380
and broadcast them to your radio

24:17.380 --> 24:18.300
inside of your car

24:18.300 --> 24:20.000
very, very short distance.

24:21.200 --> 24:22.900
And apparently the access point,

24:22.960 --> 24:23.640
you can do the same thing

24:23.640 --> 24:24.280
in your house.

24:24.280 --> 24:25.880
You can stream your music

24:25.880 --> 24:28.460
into your actual nice stereo system

24:28.460 --> 24:29.160
in your living room,

24:29.220 --> 24:29.640
for example,

24:29.820 --> 24:32.260
wireless over the airport access point.

24:32.840 --> 24:34.000
Well, he realized

24:34.000 --> 24:35.200
and what he has figured out

24:35.200 --> 24:35.700
is that

24:35.700 --> 24:38.320
you don't have to necessarily

24:38.320 --> 24:40.260
deal with the files themselves.

24:40.580 --> 24:41.820
You can deal with the files

24:41.820 --> 24:42.800
in transit.

24:43.820 --> 24:45.320
You can catch the files

24:45.320 --> 24:46.460
and how they're being encrypted

24:46.460 --> 24:47.540
and broadcasted

24:47.540 --> 24:48.160
and shouted out

24:48.160 --> 24:49.120
through the access point.

24:49.400 --> 24:50.880
And that's what he's cracked.

24:51.380 --> 24:52.400
That's what he's done.

24:52.400 --> 24:54.480
It's a crack or actually a key

24:54.480 --> 24:56.660
to the encryption itself,

24:56.880 --> 24:57.420
the encryption

24:57.420 --> 25:00.320
of broadcasting those files.

25:00.900 --> 25:02.000
So he's catching them

25:02.000 --> 25:03.460
after they leave the system

25:03.460 --> 25:04.300
and as they're encrypted

25:04.300 --> 25:05.420
on the way to the stereo.

25:06.080 --> 25:07.480
Well, I think actually what,

25:08.040 --> 25:09.580
if I'm not mistaken,

25:09.700 --> 25:10.760
I think that the deal is

25:10.760 --> 25:12.680
that these access points

25:12.680 --> 25:13.580
have a private key

25:13.580 --> 25:14.360
and a public key.

25:14.900 --> 25:17.520
And he found the public key

25:17.520 --> 25:18.460
for the access points,

25:18.460 --> 25:19.900
which means that

25:19.900 --> 25:21.300
I don't think it's so much

25:21.300 --> 25:22.420
that he can intercept

25:22.420 --> 25:24.960
traffic coming from your computer

25:24.960 --> 25:25.940
to the access point

25:25.940 --> 25:27.100
because in order to do that

25:27.100 --> 25:28.340
he would need the private key

25:28.340 --> 25:29.380
in the access point.

25:29.800 --> 25:30.600
But he can,

25:31.020 --> 25:32.240
what he can do is

25:32.240 --> 25:33.540
write software,

25:33.700 --> 25:34.360
say for Linux,

25:35.000 --> 25:36.340
that plays music

25:36.340 --> 25:37.800
on the access point.

25:38.340 --> 25:40.180
So that you could buy

25:40.180 --> 25:42.220
an Apple access point

25:42.220 --> 25:43.740
and, you know,

25:43.760 --> 25:44.860
without having to have a Mac.

25:45.060 --> 25:45.720
You could use it

25:45.720 --> 25:47.300
from your Linux machine.

25:47.300 --> 25:48.500
You could maybe use it

25:48.500 --> 25:49.440
from your Windows machine

25:49.440 --> 25:50.140
if someone wrote

25:50.140 --> 25:51.360
the appropriate software

25:51.360 --> 25:52.220
that used this key.

25:52.400 --> 25:53.600
I think that's the story.

25:53.800 --> 25:56.320
Well, that's another part of it too.

25:57.680 --> 25:58.800
That's something he released,

25:58.900 --> 26:00.180
I think, a few weeks ago

26:00.180 --> 26:02.920
called, oh my gosh,

26:02.980 --> 26:03.740
what was the name of that?

26:03.780 --> 26:04.740
He released an app

26:04.740 --> 26:06.760
that does that very thing

26:06.760 --> 26:09.940
and I can't think of the name of it

26:09.940 --> 26:10.300
offhand,

26:11.400 --> 26:14.200
but it was in these articles as well.

26:14.800 --> 26:15.740
But the combination

26:15.740 --> 26:17.240
of the two of those things

26:17.240 --> 26:17.700
will, yes,

26:17.740 --> 26:18.940
allow you to broadcast

26:18.940 --> 26:21.020
since you now have the key.

26:21.100 --> 26:22.020
He cracked the key,

26:22.080 --> 26:22.720
like you said,

26:23.420 --> 26:24.700
that will now allow you

26:24.700 --> 26:25.440
to broadcast it

26:25.440 --> 26:26.200
from a Linux box

26:26.200 --> 26:27.160
or something like that.

26:28.480 --> 26:30.640
But it's basically,

26:30.840 --> 26:31.420
if I understood,

26:31.740 --> 26:32.540
and by all means,

26:32.640 --> 26:33.340
somebody correct me,

26:33.400 --> 26:33.820
email me,

26:33.880 --> 26:34.520
correct me if I'm wrong,

26:34.580 --> 26:35.600
the way I understood it to be

26:35.600 --> 26:37.380
was that you can now take,

26:37.460 --> 26:38.460
I guess the short,

26:38.720 --> 26:39.740
the application of this

26:39.740 --> 26:40.320
would be you can now

26:40.320 --> 26:41.520
take your MP3 collection

26:41.520 --> 26:44.200
and encoding it

26:44.200 --> 26:44.860
with the key

26:44.860 --> 26:45.820
that for the airport

26:45.820 --> 26:46.720
you can start streaming

26:46.720 --> 26:47.520
your MP3s

26:47.520 --> 26:48.480
in the same exact way

26:48.480 --> 26:49.220
as you would have done

26:49.220 --> 26:50.240
with the iTunes format.

26:51.680 --> 26:52.140
Is that,

26:52.260 --> 26:53.260
am I understanding it

26:53.260 --> 26:53.780
correctly there?

26:53.900 --> 26:54.080
Yeah,

26:54.200 --> 26:55.040
I think you're right.

26:55.120 --> 26:56.740
You can stream MP3s

26:56.740 --> 26:58.300
using the iTunes streaming format.

26:58.580 --> 26:59.320
So anything that

26:59.320 --> 27:00.420
can receive

27:00.420 --> 27:02.280
iTunes streams

27:02.280 --> 27:03.160
can receive streams

27:03.160 --> 27:03.620
from you

27:03.620 --> 27:05.100
without having to use iTunes.

27:05.520 --> 27:05.820
Right.

27:05.820 --> 27:07.900
Maybe I was a little unclear

27:07.900 --> 27:09.300
on explaining it there

27:09.300 --> 27:11.080
but the long and short

27:11.080 --> 27:12.060
of it is that

27:12.060 --> 27:14.780
because what he's always been,

27:15.820 --> 27:16.940
besides being a big

27:16.940 --> 27:18.000
open source advocate,

27:18.540 --> 27:21.000
he's also against

27:21.000 --> 27:22.360
intellectual property rights

27:22.360 --> 27:23.880
a lot like we are somewhat

27:23.880 --> 27:26.680
and he said all along

27:26.680 --> 27:29.140
that the whole closed source,

27:29.300 --> 27:30.640
the whole closed proprietary

27:30.640 --> 27:31.720
application system

27:31.720 --> 27:32.840
is what he doesn't like

27:32.840 --> 27:34.040
and why he's done

27:34.040 --> 27:34.680
so many things

27:34.680 --> 27:35.120
with Apple

27:35.120 --> 27:36.040
and the iTunes stuff

27:36.040 --> 27:36.420
lately

27:36.420 --> 27:37.840
is because he wants

27:37.840 --> 27:38.580
to be able to do

27:38.580 --> 27:39.140
the same thing

27:39.140 --> 27:40.080
with MP3s.

27:40.120 --> 27:40.720
If he bought

27:40.720 --> 27:41.660
and paid for it

27:41.660 --> 27:43.260
and not just for Apple

27:43.260 --> 27:43.800
and I don't want to

27:43.800 --> 27:44.980
put words in his mouth

27:44.980 --> 27:45.620
either but not just

27:45.620 --> 27:46.020
for Apple

27:46.020 --> 27:47.260
but when people

27:47.260 --> 27:48.160
buy something

27:48.160 --> 27:49.360
and spend their

27:49.360 --> 27:50.260
hard-earned money

27:50.260 --> 27:51.120
and buy a product

27:51.120 --> 27:51.780
like this,

27:53.360 --> 27:53.560
you know,

27:53.640 --> 27:54.140
to me,

27:54.380 --> 27:55.300
I don't understand

27:55.300 --> 27:55.940
how they can try

27:55.940 --> 27:56.500
to enforce

27:56.500 --> 27:57.520
all these extra rules

27:57.520 --> 27:58.000
on something

27:58.000 --> 27:58.940
after I've got it

27:58.940 --> 27:59.620
in my house.

28:00.340 --> 28:00.860
Like, you know,

28:01.040 --> 28:02.680
I'm not a big gamer

28:02.680 --> 28:04.040
but like the console gamers

28:04.040 --> 28:04.700
are all, you know,

28:04.700 --> 28:06.160
about you can't

28:06.160 --> 28:07.080
mod your Xbox

28:07.080 --> 28:07.680
or you can't

28:07.680 --> 28:08.720
mod your Dreamcast

28:08.720 --> 28:09.480
or whatever it is,

28:09.540 --> 28:09.800
you know,

28:10.140 --> 28:11.040
you can't do that stuff

28:11.040 --> 28:11.280
with what,

28:11.340 --> 28:12.400
no, I bought it.

28:12.840 --> 28:13.620
I walked out

28:13.620 --> 28:14.400
of the store with it.

28:14.560 --> 28:15.100
I brought it

28:15.100 --> 28:15.780
into my house.

28:15.920 --> 28:16.380
I'm going to do

28:16.380 --> 28:16.900
what I want to.

28:16.940 --> 28:17.600
If I want to set it

28:17.600 --> 28:18.540
on fire and dance

28:18.540 --> 28:19.160
around it naked,

28:19.240 --> 28:19.820
that's what I'm going

28:19.820 --> 28:20.260
to do.

28:20.760 --> 28:21.520
And I've done that

28:21.520 --> 28:22.140
on many occasions,

28:22.240 --> 28:22.880
don't get me wrong.

28:23.700 --> 28:24.160
But that's,

28:24.260 --> 28:25.220
I hate it when they

28:25.220 --> 28:26.040
try to limit people

28:26.040 --> 28:26.900
using what their,

28:27.160 --> 28:27.500
you know,

28:27.660 --> 28:28.940
their hardware and stuff

28:28.940 --> 28:29.620
that they buy.

28:29.940 --> 28:31.000
So by building in

28:31.000 --> 28:31.920
these keys and this

28:31.920 --> 28:32.680
encryption and stuff

28:32.680 --> 28:33.200
like that,

28:33.380 --> 28:34.340
they feel like

28:34.340 --> 28:35.240
they've been slighted.

28:35.340 --> 28:36.300
Oh, somebody cracked

28:36.300 --> 28:36.860
your encryption.

28:37.320 --> 28:37.840
Guess what?

28:37.960 --> 28:38.820
Too bad.

28:38.880 --> 28:39.540
I don't feel sorry

28:39.540 --> 28:40.240
for you at all.

28:40.760 --> 28:41.660
So that's exactly

28:41.660 --> 28:42.340
what happened here.

28:42.420 --> 28:43.220
iTunes only?

28:43.580 --> 28:44.360
Hell no.

28:45.060 --> 28:45.900
That is completely

28:45.900 --> 28:46.760
unacceptable.

28:47.020 --> 28:47.400
No.

28:48.540 --> 28:49.300
So, you know,

28:49.380 --> 28:50.380
I think that's exactly,

28:50.640 --> 28:50.860
you know,

28:50.960 --> 28:52.420
I'm glad there are people

28:52.420 --> 28:53.240
that think like that

28:53.240 --> 28:54.240
and have the ability

28:54.240 --> 28:56.060
to do something about it.

28:56.060 --> 28:58.380
So I think this was

28:58.380 --> 28:59.080
a great story

28:59.080 --> 28:59.660
and I'm going to read

28:59.660 --> 29:00.220
more on it myself

29:00.220 --> 29:00.820
because I do want to

29:00.820 --> 29:01.600
be perfectly clear

29:01.600 --> 29:03.160
on exactly what hit,

29:03.420 --> 29:04.380
and I got to admit,

29:04.460 --> 29:05.420
his site is down.

29:06.240 --> 29:07.300
As you're listening to this,

29:07.380 --> 29:08.320
the site is down.

29:08.840 --> 29:09.960
I don't know why.

29:10.720 --> 29:11.080
Ironically,

29:11.180 --> 29:11.560
the site is,

29:11.660 --> 29:12.480
I think his site's name

29:12.480 --> 29:13.240
is SoSumi.

29:14.780 --> 29:15.100
Really?

29:15.260 --> 29:15.420
Yeah,

29:15.480 --> 29:16.220
because he's been sued

29:16.220 --> 29:16.920
so many times

29:16.920 --> 29:17.340
and threatened.

29:17.540 --> 29:19.900
It's not SoSumi.com

29:19.900 --> 29:21.100
but it's on another site.

29:21.400 --> 29:22.240
It's his blog

29:22.240 --> 29:22.860
on another site.

29:22.900 --> 29:23.340
I can't think of

29:23.340 --> 29:23.880
the name of it.

29:24.500 --> 29:25.520
I'll put it in the show notes

29:25.520 --> 29:26.400
obviously after we're done

29:26.400 --> 29:28.140
but it's down right now anyway

29:28.140 --> 29:29.680
so when I went there

29:29.680 --> 29:30.360
to actually get

29:30.360 --> 29:31.380
the technical information

29:31.380 --> 29:32.500
and the details on it,

29:33.060 --> 29:34.280
I couldn't get to the site

29:34.280 --> 29:35.360
and there was no archives

29:35.360 --> 29:36.300
that I could find anywhere

29:36.300 --> 29:37.280
that were as up to date

29:37.280 --> 29:38.440
as the last few days

29:38.440 --> 29:39.240
when he released it

29:39.240 --> 29:40.560
so I don't know

29:40.560 --> 29:41.740
if he's gotten threatened again,

29:41.860 --> 29:42.920
if he's gotten sued again,

29:43.040 --> 29:43.680
cease and desist

29:43.680 --> 29:44.620
or if the site's just,

29:44.680 --> 29:44.920
you know,

29:45.000 --> 29:46.020
slashed on it or something.

29:47.040 --> 29:47.340
You know,

29:47.420 --> 29:49.920
the first sound

29:49.920 --> 29:50.700
that was ever put

29:50.700 --> 29:51.580
in an Apple computer

29:51.580 --> 29:52.900
was also called SoSumi

29:52.900 --> 29:55.200
because Apple Records

29:55.200 --> 29:56.300
had sued them

29:56.300 --> 29:57.340
because they called

29:57.340 --> 29:57.980
themselves Apple

29:57.980 --> 29:58.780
and said that it was

29:58.780 --> 29:59.300
a trademark

29:59.300 --> 30:00.500
because they were

30:00.500 --> 30:01.480
infringing on their trademark

30:01.480 --> 30:03.700
and the arrangement

30:03.700 --> 30:04.920
they reached with Apple Records

30:04.920 --> 30:05.880
is that they would never

30:05.880 --> 30:07.420
include audio capabilities

30:07.420 --> 30:08.080
in their computers

30:08.080 --> 30:09.880
so when they finally

30:09.880 --> 30:11.400
did include audio capabilities

30:11.400 --> 30:15.580
they added the sound

30:15.580 --> 30:17.040
and they called it SoSumi.

30:17.040 --> 30:19.700
Yeah, I vaguely remember

30:19.700 --> 30:21.000
Rax telling me that story

30:21.000 --> 30:21.780
one time before.

30:21.920 --> 30:22.900
There's some irony

30:22.900 --> 30:23.580
in there somewhere.

30:26.640 --> 30:27.040
Anyway,

30:27.600 --> 30:28.360
the whole,

30:28.540 --> 30:29.860
also I like the way

30:29.860 --> 30:30.900
he was thinking

30:30.900 --> 30:31.740
about this whole thing.

30:31.820 --> 30:32.740
It's not always about

30:32.740 --> 30:34.320
looking at the ends

30:34.320 --> 30:34.940
of the chains

30:34.940 --> 30:36.460
as I like to make

30:36.460 --> 30:37.440
a metaphor for it.

30:37.640 --> 30:38.460
It's, you know,

30:38.480 --> 30:39.080
he's not looking at

30:39.080 --> 30:40.000
the file at the beginning

30:40.000 --> 30:41.080
or the end result

30:41.080 --> 30:41.500
and whatever.

30:41.720 --> 30:42.620
There's all these steps

30:42.620 --> 30:43.100
in between

30:43.100 --> 30:43.840
and all the links

30:43.840 --> 30:44.460
in the chain.

30:44.460 --> 30:45.520
You don't look at

30:45.520 --> 30:46.540
just the ends of the chain

30:46.540 --> 30:47.820
and try to chip the end off

30:47.820 --> 30:48.760
or try to break the end

30:48.760 --> 30:49.680
or try to bend it

30:49.680 --> 30:50.120
to whatever.

30:50.860 --> 30:51.800
Look at all of the

30:51.800 --> 30:52.720
individual links

30:52.720 --> 30:53.200
in the chain

30:53.200 --> 30:54.200
and break the weakest

30:54.200 --> 30:55.100
one in there.

30:55.440 --> 30:56.180
And if that's a piece

30:56.180 --> 30:56.680
of hardware

30:56.680 --> 30:57.680
that broadcasts

30:57.680 --> 30:58.500
the music out there

30:58.500 --> 30:59.280
that may be the

30:59.280 --> 30:59.700
weak point

30:59.700 --> 31:01.020
that you can override

31:01.020 --> 31:01.940
and make it work

31:01.940 --> 31:02.960
for what you want it to do.

31:03.540 --> 31:03.860
You know,

31:03.960 --> 31:04.580
there's so many

31:04.580 --> 31:05.220
different ways

31:05.220 --> 31:05.920
and so many points

31:05.920 --> 31:06.460
of attack

31:06.460 --> 31:07.760
that I like the way

31:07.760 --> 31:08.240
that I,

31:08.560 --> 31:09.420
from what I've seen

31:09.420 --> 31:10.080
and the stuff

31:10.080 --> 31:10.440
that he's done

31:10.440 --> 31:10.800
in the past

31:10.800 --> 31:11.840
I like the way he thinks.

31:12.680 --> 31:12.920
So,

31:13.180 --> 31:13.380
big,

31:13.500 --> 31:14.320
big credit to him

31:14.320 --> 31:14.720
for this.

31:16.460 --> 31:16.860
Alright,

31:17.000 --> 31:17.900
now I have another

31:17.900 --> 31:18.860
email here

31:18.860 --> 31:20.400
from Fireblade

31:20.400 --> 31:22.080
who says,

31:22.160 --> 31:22.920
Dear Stank Dog,

31:23.020 --> 31:23.840
my name is Fireblade

31:23.840 --> 31:24.960
and I live in Belgium.

31:25.540 --> 31:26.660
I love your show

31:26.660 --> 31:27.680
and I told all my friends

31:27.680 --> 31:28.020
about it.

31:28.040 --> 31:28.640
The reason why

31:28.640 --> 31:29.460
I mail you

31:29.460 --> 31:30.820
is because you talked

31:30.820 --> 31:31.860
about the iPod.

31:32.060 --> 31:32.920
We just talked

31:32.920 --> 31:33.780
about the iPod.

31:34.240 --> 31:35.000
And that you have

31:35.000 --> 31:36.560
cheaper MP3 players.

31:37.100 --> 31:38.540
I bought a GP32.

31:38.540 --> 31:39.660
It's a handheld

31:39.660 --> 31:40.460
that looks like

31:40.460 --> 31:41.460
a Game Boy Advance

31:41.460 --> 31:42.780
but you can connect

31:42.780 --> 31:43.460
it to your PC

31:43.460 --> 31:44.940
via a USB cable

31:44.940 --> 31:46.080
and then you can

31:46.080 --> 31:46.660
put files

31:46.660 --> 31:47.800
on the smart media card.

31:48.260 --> 31:48.880
This rules

31:48.880 --> 31:49.500
because you can put

31:49.500 --> 31:49.940
games,

31:50.120 --> 31:50.380
movies,

31:50.560 --> 31:50.940
cartoons,

31:51.140 --> 31:52.060
and music on it

31:52.060 --> 31:53.320
and that all

31:53.320 --> 31:55.260
for 150 euros.

31:55.260 --> 31:58.040
I'm rough on it.

31:58.040 --> 31:58.300
I don't know

31:58.300 --> 31:59.140
what the equivalent

31:59.140 --> 32:01.780
would be here

32:01.780 --> 32:02.760
but 150 euros.

32:03.220 --> 32:04.080
It's open source

32:04.080 --> 32:05.540
so a lot of programmers

32:05.540 --> 32:06.520
make new programs,

32:06.640 --> 32:06.960
games,

32:07.120 --> 32:08.240
firmware like the OS.

32:08.660 --> 32:09.100
I just wanted

32:09.100 --> 32:09.600
to tell you this

32:09.600 --> 32:10.360
because it's really cool

32:10.360 --> 32:10.920
and I wanted

32:10.920 --> 32:12.360
to inform you.

32:12.760 --> 32:14.100
Greets from Fireblade

32:14.100 --> 32:15.540
straight out of Belgium.

32:17.200 --> 32:17.940
Now funny,

32:18.060 --> 32:19.120
maybe he was predicting

32:19.120 --> 32:19.820
we were going to talk

32:19.820 --> 32:20.820
about the iPod or something

32:20.820 --> 32:22.420
but well first of all

32:22.420 --> 32:23.560
first of all

32:23.560 --> 32:24.060
he's from Bel

32:24.060 --> 32:25.100
and not only is he

32:25.100 --> 32:25.680
from Belgium

32:25.680 --> 32:26.680
but he's straight

32:26.680 --> 32:27.420
out of Belgium

32:27.420 --> 32:29.160
like gangster

32:29.160 --> 32:29.900
out of Belgium

32:29.900 --> 32:32.060
so shouts to Belgium.

32:32.800 --> 32:33.780
We get emails

32:33.780 --> 32:35.540
from so many cool places

32:35.540 --> 32:36.560
I just can't

32:36.560 --> 32:37.580
reiterate that enough.

32:37.680 --> 32:38.560
I love getting emails

32:38.560 --> 32:39.940
from other countries.

32:40.060 --> 32:40.720
I can't believe

32:40.720 --> 32:41.640
that somebody in Belgium

32:41.640 --> 32:43.020
listens to this show.

32:43.700 --> 32:44.400
I'm shocked

32:44.400 --> 32:45.100
every time I get

32:45.100 --> 32:45.920
an email like this.

32:46.600 --> 32:47.780
So we're very much

32:47.780 --> 32:48.600
glad to have you listening.

32:48.700 --> 32:49.420
Thank you very much.

32:50.620 --> 32:52.160
Yeah and I guess

32:52.160 --> 32:52.820
this does kind of

32:52.820 --> 32:53.460
harken back to what

32:53.460 --> 32:54.040
we were talking about.

32:54.060 --> 32:54.620
a minute ago

32:54.620 --> 32:55.960
here in the United States

32:55.960 --> 32:57.080
we're limiting everything

32:57.080 --> 32:57.760
and trying to make

32:57.760 --> 32:59.080
all this proprietary hardware

32:59.080 --> 33:00.020
and stuff like that

33:00.020 --> 33:01.640
and I love hearing

33:01.640 --> 33:02.540
a story like this

33:02.540 --> 33:04.120
because it just goes

33:04.120 --> 33:04.760
to remind us

33:04.760 --> 33:05.520
further and further

33:05.520 --> 33:07.220
how we continue

33:07.220 --> 33:08.420
to stifle creativity

33:08.420 --> 33:09.680
here in the United States.

33:09.800 --> 33:10.360
In this country

33:10.360 --> 33:11.020
in the United States

33:11.020 --> 33:11.480
of America

33:11.480 --> 33:13.800
we are stifling creativity

33:13.800 --> 33:15.420
especially with

33:15.420 --> 33:16.440
all these intellectual

33:16.440 --> 33:17.320
property laws

33:17.320 --> 33:17.980
that they're passing

33:17.980 --> 33:19.060
and the strictness

33:19.060 --> 33:19.400
and these

33:19.400 --> 33:20.980
it's just ridiculous

33:20.980 --> 33:21.760
how they do it.

33:21.760 --> 33:22.660
other countries

33:22.660 --> 33:23.160
are embracing

33:23.160 --> 33:23.760
open source

33:23.760 --> 33:24.400
the open source

33:24.400 --> 33:24.780
movement

33:24.780 --> 33:25.760
they're putting out

33:25.760 --> 33:26.420
new products

33:26.420 --> 33:27.220
better products

33:27.220 --> 33:28.540
more flexible products

33:28.540 --> 33:29.500
that you can adapt

33:29.500 --> 33:30.500
and customize

33:30.500 --> 33:31.980
and use as you see fit

33:31.980 --> 33:33.100
while what are we

33:33.100 --> 33:33.740
doing over here

33:33.740 --> 33:34.380
we're spending all

33:34.380 --> 33:35.100
our times waiting

33:35.100 --> 33:35.660
in line

33:35.660 --> 33:36.960
for a court date

33:36.960 --> 33:39.320
and lawyers offices

33:39.320 --> 33:40.060
and filling out

33:40.060 --> 33:40.540
lawsuits

33:40.540 --> 33:41.700
for God's sake.

33:41.700 --> 33:43.420
Oh I didn't want

33:43.420 --> 33:43.940
to get mad

33:43.940 --> 33:44.840
on this episode

33:44.840 --> 33:46.580
Oh

33:46.580 --> 33:48.220
I'm

33:48.220 --> 33:48.900
okay

33:48.900 --> 33:49.480
you

33:49.480 --> 33:51.260
say something

33:51.260 --> 33:51.660
about this

33:51.660 --> 33:52.300
I gotta calm down

33:52.300 --> 33:52.620
I gotta have

33:52.620 --> 33:53.080
an iced tea

33:53.080 --> 33:54.760
Oh man

33:54.760 --> 33:55.920
And you're gonna

33:55.920 --> 33:56.640
get mad too

33:56.640 --> 33:58.160
I can feel it

33:58.160 --> 33:59.100
Well

33:59.100 --> 34:03.400
Maybe we should

34:03.400 --> 34:03.760
okay look

34:03.760 --> 34:04.180
you know what

34:04.180 --> 34:04.720
I mean

34:04.720 --> 34:05.440
it's almost

34:05.440 --> 34:06.100
what do you say

34:06.100 --> 34:06.580
you know

34:06.580 --> 34:07.220
Yeah I mean

34:07.220 --> 34:07.880
let's accentuate

34:07.880 --> 34:08.920
I totally agree

34:08.920 --> 34:11.440
that in the United States

34:11.440 --> 34:12.540
where you know

34:12.540 --> 34:13.420
that there are a lot

34:13.420 --> 34:13.840
of people

34:13.840 --> 34:14.840
who have

34:14.840 --> 34:15.980
a lot of

34:15.980 --> 34:16.400
you know

34:16.400 --> 34:17.100
sort of infrastructure

34:17.100 --> 34:17.820
built up

34:17.820 --> 34:18.320
that has

34:18.320 --> 34:19.320
that is invested

34:19.320 --> 34:20.780
in the old way

34:20.780 --> 34:21.680
that media works

34:21.680 --> 34:23.240
and in the broadcast

34:23.240 --> 34:24.240
form of media

34:24.240 --> 34:26.180
and in these

34:26.180 --> 34:26.640
you know

34:26.640 --> 34:27.200
sort of

34:27.200 --> 34:27.940
in these sort of

34:27.940 --> 34:29.500
distribution networks

34:29.500 --> 34:30.020
that involve

34:30.020 --> 34:31.260
handing people discs

34:31.260 --> 34:33.180
and handing them paper

34:33.180 --> 34:34.360
and handing them cassettes

34:34.360 --> 34:35.740
and you know

34:35.740 --> 34:36.540
these guys are threatened

34:36.540 --> 34:37.380
by the way that

34:37.380 --> 34:38.760
the world is changing

34:38.760 --> 34:39.480
and you know

34:39.480 --> 34:40.440
the United States

34:40.440 --> 34:41.380
seems to have taken

34:41.380 --> 34:42.480
the position

34:42.480 --> 34:43.340
in terms of

34:43.340 --> 34:44.400
how things change

34:44.400 --> 34:45.520
of you know

34:45.520 --> 34:46.760
defending these

34:46.760 --> 34:47.440
entrenched interests

34:47.440 --> 34:48.400
as much as possible

34:48.400 --> 34:49.340
and you know

34:49.340 --> 34:50.960
I think it could be

34:50.960 --> 34:52.080
difficult for us

34:52.080 --> 34:52.600
in the future

34:52.600 --> 34:53.660
as we move along

34:53.660 --> 34:54.220
I think that

34:54.220 --> 34:54.800
you know

34:54.800 --> 34:56.560
there will be people

34:56.560 --> 34:57.600
who sort of

34:57.600 --> 34:58.060
break free

34:58.060 --> 34:58.680
from this way

34:58.680 --> 34:59.160
of working

34:59.160 --> 35:00.600
and you know

35:00.600 --> 35:01.080
it'll be harder

35:01.080 --> 35:01.860
for us to do it

35:01.860 --> 35:02.360
because we're

35:02.360 --> 35:02.860
you know

35:02.860 --> 35:03.720
we're so interested

35:03.720 --> 35:04.480
in sort of

35:04.480 --> 35:05.500
propping up this stuff

35:05.500 --> 35:06.140
for as long as

35:06.140 --> 35:06.860
we can possibly

35:06.860 --> 35:07.500
prop it up

35:07.500 --> 35:09.480
and you know

35:09.480 --> 35:11.240
it's quite

35:11.240 --> 35:12.280
it's quite frustrating

35:12.280 --> 35:14.140
yeah I just

35:14.140 --> 35:16.360
you know

35:16.360 --> 35:18.380
I'm gonna

35:18.380 --> 35:19.200
I'm gonna accentuate

35:19.200 --> 35:19.980
the positive here

35:19.980 --> 35:20.940
it's cool

35:20.940 --> 35:21.380
that something

35:21.380 --> 35:22.320
like this exists

35:22.320 --> 35:23.320
you know

35:23.320 --> 35:24.300
maybe I can import

35:24.300 --> 35:24.640
one

35:24.640 --> 35:25.660
maybe I can order

35:25.660 --> 35:26.180
one overseas

35:26.180 --> 35:26.600
and that's the

35:26.600 --> 35:27.100
beautiful thing

35:27.100 --> 35:27.660
about the internet

35:27.660 --> 35:28.640
we have no borders

35:28.640 --> 35:29.180
on the internet

35:29.180 --> 35:30.660
so maybe I can

35:30.660 --> 35:31.220
get one of those

35:31.220 --> 35:32.400
I just convert euros

35:32.400 --> 35:33.400
to American dollars

35:33.400 --> 35:34.240
whatever that comes out

35:34.240 --> 35:34.980
to see how this

35:34.980 --> 35:35.720
is you know

35:35.720 --> 35:37.100
but you know

35:37.100 --> 35:38.480
at the same time

35:38.480 --> 35:40.980
I do get mad

35:40.980 --> 35:41.800
because

35:41.800 --> 35:43.480
you know

35:43.480 --> 35:43.980
I think

35:43.980 --> 35:45.060
I think I mentioned

35:45.060 --> 35:45.740
this last week

35:45.740 --> 35:46.280
or a week before

35:46.280 --> 35:47.360
on a different topic

35:47.360 --> 35:48.120
but it still comes

35:48.120 --> 35:48.840
back to me again

35:48.840 --> 35:50.320
we wonder why

35:50.320 --> 35:52.320
we're not selling

35:52.320 --> 35:53.200
our electronics

35:53.200 --> 35:53.700
aren't selling

35:53.700 --> 35:54.360
as much as other

35:54.360 --> 35:54.680
countries

35:54.680 --> 35:55.160
well because

35:55.160 --> 35:55.780
they're being

35:55.780 --> 35:56.320
creative

35:56.320 --> 35:57.600
they're coming up

35:57.600 --> 35:58.300
with new stuff

35:58.300 --> 35:58.900
and we're sitting

35:58.900 --> 35:59.940
in the same old rut

35:59.940 --> 36:01.700
sending special interest

36:01.700 --> 36:03.080
groups and lobbyists

36:03.080 --> 36:04.100
to stick money

36:04.100 --> 36:04.720
under the pockets

36:04.720 --> 36:05.580
of our politicians

36:05.580 --> 36:06.740
alright no

36:06.740 --> 36:07.320
you know what

36:07.320 --> 36:07.620
no

36:07.620 --> 36:08.740
I'm backing up

36:08.740 --> 36:10.120
I'm backing up

36:10.120 --> 36:11.800
I'm backing up

36:11.800 --> 36:12.260
from this

36:12.260 --> 36:13.240
you know what

36:13.240 --> 36:14.780
there should be

36:14.780 --> 36:15.460
one person

36:15.460 --> 36:16.080
in the world

36:16.080 --> 36:16.980
and it should be me

36:16.980 --> 36:17.960
there should be

36:17.960 --> 36:18.840
one person in the world

36:18.840 --> 36:19.780
whose job is it

36:19.780 --> 36:21.420
to go to

36:21.420 --> 36:22.440
politicians

36:22.440 --> 36:23.880
at any level

36:23.880 --> 36:25.400
in the United States

36:25.400 --> 36:25.820
of America

36:25.820 --> 36:26.680
and when they do

36:26.680 --> 36:27.500
something stupid

36:27.500 --> 36:28.660
or vote for something

36:28.660 --> 36:29.880
that is so obviously

36:29.880 --> 36:31.320
stupid and or corrupt

36:31.320 --> 36:32.880
and this person

36:32.880 --> 36:33.720
should be the only

36:33.720 --> 36:34.540
person authorized

36:34.540 --> 36:35.340
in the United States

36:35.340 --> 36:36.120
to punch them

36:36.120 --> 36:36.720
in the face

36:36.720 --> 36:38.380
and it should be me

36:38.380 --> 36:39.680
that I'm the only

36:39.680 --> 36:41.000
person that should

36:41.000 --> 36:41.880
be allowed to do that

36:41.880 --> 36:43.080
and I would do the

36:43.080 --> 36:44.760
job with such vigor

36:44.760 --> 36:46.020
I swear

36:46.020 --> 36:47.660
oh

36:47.660 --> 36:50.140
oh man

36:50.140 --> 36:51.180
okay

36:51.180 --> 36:52.140
I'm gonna move

36:52.140 --> 36:52.900
I'm just gonna move

36:52.900 --> 36:53.580
to the next email

36:53.580 --> 36:54.080
is that cool

36:54.080 --> 36:54.560
because I'm just

36:54.560 --> 36:56.120
getting angry

36:56.120 --> 36:59.300
oh man

36:59.300 --> 36:59.700
okay

36:59.700 --> 37:00.460
I'm gonna end

37:00.460 --> 37:01.460
with this email

37:01.460 --> 37:02.580
this is from

37:02.580 --> 37:03.040
Moth

37:03.040 --> 37:06.100
the reason I email

37:06.100 --> 37:07.160
he says among

37:07.160 --> 37:07.760
other things

37:07.760 --> 37:08.800
the reason I email

37:08.800 --> 37:09.940
on episode 57

37:09.940 --> 37:10.620
again last week

37:10.620 --> 37:11.220
thank you not

37:11.220 --> 37:11.480
that we were

37:11.480 --> 37:11.900
talking about

37:11.900 --> 37:12.740
the digital media

37:12.740 --> 37:13.600
levy up here

37:13.600 --> 37:14.180
in Canada

37:14.180 --> 37:15.820
yes there is one

37:15.820 --> 37:16.480
but it's not

37:16.480 --> 37:17.480
enforced that much

37:17.480 --> 37:18.180
I can go into

37:18.180 --> 37:19.240
any real computer

37:19.240 --> 37:19.680
store

37:19.680 --> 37:21.740
not the huge

37:21.740 --> 37:22.720
chain stores

37:22.720 --> 37:23.440
but and purchase

37:23.440 --> 37:24.100
digital media

37:24.100 --> 37:24.840
without a levy

37:24.840 --> 37:26.100
the only places

37:26.100 --> 37:26.960
that do have

37:26.960 --> 37:27.660
levies are the

37:27.660 --> 37:28.840
huge chain stores

37:28.840 --> 37:30.020
like future shop

37:30.020 --> 37:31.520
which is a

37:31.520 --> 37:32.320
Canadian equivalent

37:32.320 --> 37:33.160
of compusa

37:33.160 --> 37:34.620
I actually have

37:34.620 --> 37:35.240
ordered from future

37:35.240 --> 37:35.940
shop online

37:35.940 --> 37:36.700
I didn't realize

37:36.700 --> 37:37.420
they were a chain

37:37.420 --> 37:37.840
though I thought

37:37.840 --> 37:38.220
they were just

37:38.220 --> 37:39.200
a web only site

37:39.200 --> 37:39.720
that's interesting

37:39.720 --> 37:40.060
to know

37:40.060 --> 37:41.040
so I learned

37:41.040 --> 37:41.480
something out of

37:41.480 --> 37:41.820
this email

37:41.820 --> 37:42.400
and the like

37:42.400 --> 37:43.740
so anyone who

37:43.740 --> 37:44.540
alright I'm gonna

37:44.540 --> 37:44.840
do a little

37:44.840 --> 37:45.500
creative editing

37:45.500 --> 37:46.360
so anyone who

37:46.360 --> 37:47.480
buys writable

37:47.480 --> 37:48.380
media at

37:48.380 --> 37:49.460
Walmart

37:49.460 --> 37:50.720
deserves to pay

37:50.720 --> 37:51.680
levies

37:51.680 --> 37:53.920
so thank you

37:53.920 --> 37:54.720
for clarifying

37:54.720 --> 37:55.140
that

37:55.140 --> 37:57.340
we talked about

37:57.340 --> 37:57.780
the levies

37:57.780 --> 37:58.120
when they were

37:58.120 --> 37:58.720
first announced

37:58.720 --> 37:59.180
I think it was

37:59.180 --> 37:59.980
Gluco who told

37:59.980 --> 38:00.400
us about them

38:00.400 --> 38:00.740
originally

38:00.740 --> 38:01.320
and we mentioned

38:01.320 --> 38:01.980
it last week

38:01.980 --> 38:03.000
they're trying

38:03.000 --> 38:03.540
to do similar

38:03.540 --> 38:04.360
stuff in Canada

38:04.360 --> 38:04.920
and I always

38:04.920 --> 38:05.360
kind of thought

38:05.360 --> 38:06.620
Canada might

38:06.620 --> 38:07.160
have had some

38:07.160 --> 38:07.600
sense

38:07.600 --> 38:09.340
but it doesn't

38:09.340 --> 38:09.780
sound like

38:09.780 --> 38:10.300
they're doing

38:10.300 --> 38:10.800
much better

38:10.800 --> 38:11.160
you think

38:11.160 --> 38:11.480
there's any

38:11.480 --> 38:12.240
American pressure

38:12.240 --> 38:12.740
for them to

38:12.740 --> 38:13.160
pass these

38:13.160 --> 38:13.780
type of things

38:13.780 --> 38:15.080
that's an

38:15.080 --> 38:15.880
interesting thought

38:15.880 --> 38:16.480
I don't know

38:16.480 --> 38:17.600
I think that

38:17.600 --> 38:19.180
Canada's laws

38:19.180 --> 38:19.900
are a little bit

38:19.900 --> 38:20.540
more liberal

38:20.540 --> 38:21.240
than the United

38:21.240 --> 38:21.700
States

38:21.700 --> 38:22.480
with respect

38:22.480 --> 38:23.000
to this stuff

38:23.000 --> 38:23.800
but it's still

38:23.800 --> 38:25.720
a very vigorous

38:25.720 --> 38:26.460
debate there

38:26.460 --> 38:28.360
and certainly

38:28.360 --> 38:28.980
the same

38:28.980 --> 38:29.780
sort of

38:29.780 --> 38:31.440
industries

38:31.440 --> 38:32.320
that have

38:32.320 --> 38:33.200
the same

38:33.200 --> 38:33.440
sort of

38:33.440 --> 38:34.020
interest

38:34.020 --> 38:35.160
exist there

38:35.160 --> 38:35.720
that exists

38:35.720 --> 38:36.120
here in the

38:36.120 --> 38:36.640
United States

38:36.640 --> 38:39.080
and they're

38:39.080 --> 38:39.640
certainly

38:39.640 --> 38:40.900
doing everything

38:40.900 --> 38:41.340
they can

38:41.340 --> 38:41.980
to push

38:41.980 --> 38:42.460
their agenda

38:42.460 --> 38:44.240
so you're

38:44.240 --> 38:44.560
going to see

38:44.560 --> 38:45.000
stuff like

38:45.000 --> 38:45.320
this

38:45.320 --> 38:47.120
well anyway

38:47.120 --> 38:47.600
it is good

38:47.600 --> 38:48.240
to hear that

38:48.240 --> 38:48.860
if you're

38:48.860 --> 38:49.220
going to

38:49.220 --> 38:50.100
the chain

38:50.100 --> 38:50.480
stores

38:50.480 --> 38:50.700
the

38:50.700 --> 38:51.200
compuses

38:51.200 --> 38:51.580
the

38:51.580 --> 38:51.920
future

38:51.920 --> 38:52.260
shops

38:52.260 --> 38:52.500
whatever

38:52.500 --> 38:52.880
they are

38:52.880 --> 38:53.240
up there

38:53.240 --> 38:53.980
you're

38:53.980 --> 38:54.200
going to

38:54.200 --> 38:54.460
get hit

38:54.460 --> 38:54.700
with the

38:54.700 --> 38:54.920
levy

38:54.920 --> 38:55.580
but you

38:55.580 --> 38:55.960
still have

38:55.960 --> 38:56.180
other

38:56.180 --> 38:56.580
options

38:56.580 --> 38:56.960
I mean

38:56.960 --> 38:59.260
I assume

38:59.260 --> 39:01.080
well I don't

39:01.080 --> 39:01.720
care either way

39:01.720 --> 39:02.260
but I assume

39:02.260 --> 39:02.960
he means legal

39:02.960 --> 39:03.340
options

39:03.340 --> 39:03.660
I mean he's

39:03.660 --> 39:04.020
saying going

39:04.020 --> 39:04.500
into real

39:04.500 --> 39:05.380
computer stores

39:05.380 --> 39:07.260
so I guess

39:07.260 --> 39:07.760
that's

39:07.760 --> 39:08.740
they're taking

39:08.740 --> 39:09.200
they're making

39:09.200 --> 39:09.660
the choice

39:09.660 --> 39:09.940
I guess

39:09.940 --> 39:10.700
I wonder

39:10.700 --> 39:11.380
if they get

39:11.380 --> 39:12.240
if it's like

39:12.240 --> 39:12.760
taxes

39:12.760 --> 39:13.120
see I don't

39:13.120 --> 39:13.380
know how

39:13.380 --> 39:14.060
levies work

39:14.060 --> 39:14.680
in Canada

39:14.680 --> 39:15.240
as opposed

39:15.240 --> 39:15.940
to taxes

39:15.940 --> 39:17.480
maybe

39:17.480 --> 39:18.000
maybe you

39:18.000 --> 39:18.220
know what

39:18.220 --> 39:18.620
maybe

39:18.620 --> 39:19.840
moth or

39:19.840 --> 39:20.380
gluco or

39:20.380 --> 39:20.820
somebody can

39:20.820 --> 39:21.400
email me

39:21.400 --> 39:21.640
and let

39:21.640 --> 39:22.080
me know

39:22.080 --> 39:22.980
it's not

39:22.980 --> 39:23.720
exactly like

39:23.720 --> 39:24.140
a tax

39:24.140 --> 39:24.440
so I'm

39:24.440 --> 39:25.060
not sure

39:25.060 --> 39:26.120
you know

39:26.120 --> 39:26.640
on taxes

39:26.640 --> 39:27.140
they have

39:27.140 --> 39:27.580
to charge

39:27.580 --> 39:27.760
it

39:27.760 --> 39:27.940
I don't know

39:27.940 --> 39:28.340
it might be

39:28.340 --> 39:28.880
a little bit

39:28.880 --> 39:29.380
questionable

39:29.380 --> 39:30.160
like you

39:30.160 --> 39:30.360
know you

39:30.360 --> 39:30.920
go down to

39:30.920 --> 39:31.440
your local

39:31.440 --> 39:31.940
corner

39:31.940 --> 39:32.940
computer store

39:32.940 --> 39:34.200
you know

39:34.200 --> 39:35.220
that's not a

39:35.220 --> 39:35.840
big chain

39:35.840 --> 39:36.540
and you know

39:36.540 --> 39:37.100
maybe they'll

39:37.100 --> 39:38.040
cut you some

39:38.040 --> 39:38.420
CDs

39:38.420 --> 39:39.240
and you know

39:39.240 --> 39:39.600
they're not

39:39.600 --> 39:40.720
reporting it

39:40.720 --> 39:41.560
like they're

39:41.560 --> 39:42.540
probably supposed

39:42.540 --> 39:43.020
to do to

39:43.020 --> 39:43.500
the government

39:43.500 --> 39:44.580
yeah and I'm

39:44.580 --> 39:45.240
all for civil

39:45.240 --> 39:45.860
disobedience

39:45.860 --> 39:46.380
that way

39:46.380 --> 39:47.200
that's fine

39:47.200 --> 39:49.440
but

39:49.440 --> 39:51.680
that might be

39:51.680 --> 39:52.300
the story

39:52.300 --> 39:53.180
I wonder

39:53.180 --> 39:53.480
though

39:53.480 --> 39:54.200
if it's like

39:54.200 --> 39:55.060
taxes where

39:55.060 --> 39:56.020
they have to

39:56.020 --> 39:56.540
report their

39:56.540 --> 39:57.400
sales and a

39:57.400 --> 39:57.920
percentage of

39:57.920 --> 39:58.400
those tax

39:58.400 --> 39:58.840
and they have

39:58.840 --> 39:59.280
to report

39:59.280 --> 39:59.760
those taxes

39:59.760 --> 40:00.060
to the

40:00.060 --> 40:00.300
government

40:00.300 --> 40:00.560
and if

40:00.560 --> 40:01.200
they don't

40:01.200 --> 40:02.580
is it

40:02.580 --> 40:03.020
coming out

40:03.020 --> 40:03.240
of their

40:03.240 --> 40:03.600
pocket

40:03.600 --> 40:03.880
are they

40:03.880 --> 40:04.480
just absorbing

40:04.480 --> 40:04.900
it as a

40:04.900 --> 40:05.300
cost of

40:05.300 --> 40:05.980
doing business

40:05.980 --> 40:06.760
because you

40:06.760 --> 40:06.980
know you

40:06.980 --> 40:07.180
can go

40:07.180 --> 40:07.520
into some

40:07.520 --> 40:07.980
stores where

40:07.980 --> 40:08.240
they don't

40:08.240 --> 40:08.620
charge you

40:08.620 --> 40:09.100
tax in the

40:09.100 --> 40:09.740
United States

40:09.740 --> 40:10.700
but they are

40:10.700 --> 40:11.300
still reporting

40:11.300 --> 40:11.860
that tax to

40:11.860 --> 40:12.340
the government

40:12.340 --> 40:13.140
right

40:13.140 --> 40:14.360
and really

40:14.360 --> 40:15.100
they are

40:15.100 --> 40:15.480
they're just

40:15.480 --> 40:17.100
basically calculating

40:17.100 --> 40:17.640
that into the

40:17.640 --> 40:18.120
cost of the

40:18.120 --> 40:18.760
item and cost

40:18.760 --> 40:19.420
of doing business

40:19.420 --> 40:20.240
that could

40:20.240 --> 40:20.940
certainly be the

40:20.940 --> 40:21.300
story

40:21.300 --> 40:22.740
those smaller

40:22.740 --> 40:23.400
computer stores

40:23.400 --> 40:24.080
want to compete

40:24.080 --> 40:25.500
and maybe by

40:25.500 --> 40:27.520
offering to

40:27.520 --> 40:28.200
cover the

40:28.200 --> 40:28.680
cost of the

40:28.680 --> 40:29.240
levy they can

40:29.240 --> 40:29.820
bring people

40:29.820 --> 40:31.120
in to the

40:31.120 --> 40:32.480
store who

40:32.480 --> 40:33.140
otherwise might

40:33.140 --> 40:33.680
not and they

40:33.680 --> 40:34.320
might pick some

40:34.320 --> 40:34.880
other things up

40:34.880 --> 40:35.160
while they're

40:35.160 --> 40:35.540
there

40:35.540 --> 40:36.240
exactly

40:36.240 --> 40:37.460
and hey

40:37.460 --> 40:38.600
it's hard to

40:38.600 --> 40:39.120
tell from his

40:39.120 --> 40:39.740
email what

40:39.740 --> 40:41.240
the story is

40:41.240 --> 40:42.780
and if

40:42.780 --> 40:43.160
you know

40:43.160 --> 40:43.720
if it means

40:43.720 --> 40:44.160
I have to

40:44.160 --> 40:44.680
walk out

40:44.680 --> 40:44.940
in the

40:44.940 --> 40:45.360
alley out

40:45.360 --> 40:45.720
back and

40:45.720 --> 40:46.060
buy it off

40:46.060 --> 40:46.360
the back

40:46.360 --> 40:46.560
of the

40:46.560 --> 40:46.780
truck

40:46.780 --> 40:47.120
I'm not

40:47.120 --> 40:47.800
above that

40:47.800 --> 40:50.540
all right

40:50.540 --> 40:51.480
anyway let's

40:51.480 --> 40:52.020
wrap up the

40:52.020 --> 40:52.640
email here

40:52.640 --> 40:53.100
we're probably

40:53.100 --> 40:53.540
about halfway

40:53.540 --> 40:53.900
through the

40:53.900 --> 40:54.520
show so let's

40:54.520 --> 40:55.040
wrap up the

40:55.040 --> 40:55.360
email

40:55.360 --> 40:56.980
I'm not going

40:56.980 --> 40:57.620
to read the

40:57.620 --> 40:58.400
who wrote the

40:58.400 --> 40:58.900
theme song

40:58.900 --> 40:59.600
emails which

40:59.600 --> 41:00.320
yes I got

41:00.320 --> 41:00.900
again this

41:00.900 --> 41:01.300
week

41:01.300 --> 41:02.440
zero wrote

41:02.440 --> 41:03.040
the song

41:03.040 --> 41:03.720
blah blah

41:03.720 --> 41:04.540
blah anyway

41:04.540 --> 41:05.820
and we actually

41:05.820 --> 41:06.200
got a couple

41:06.200 --> 41:06.560
other good

41:06.560 --> 41:07.060
emails I'm

41:07.060 --> 41:07.300
just going to

41:07.300 --> 41:07.740
have to save

41:07.740 --> 41:08.020
them for

41:08.020 --> 41:08.460
another one

41:08.460 --> 41:08.760
so we can

41:08.760 --> 41:09.320
move on

41:09.320 --> 41:10.460
into the

41:10.460 --> 41:10.960
show and

41:10.960 --> 41:11.400
tell part of

41:11.400 --> 41:11.840
the show

41:11.840 --> 41:12.240
and talk

41:12.240 --> 41:12.560
about what

41:12.560 --> 41:12.800
we've been

41:12.800 --> 41:13.260
working on

41:13.260 --> 41:13.680
lately

41:13.680 --> 41:15.940
myself I

41:15.940 --> 41:16.480
mentioned last

41:16.480 --> 41:16.840
week I've

41:16.840 --> 41:17.360
been kind of

41:17.360 --> 41:17.720
putting some

41:17.720 --> 41:18.120
time into

41:18.120 --> 41:18.700
learning SQL

41:18.700 --> 41:20.220
server SQL

41:20.220 --> 41:20.940
server as

41:20.940 --> 41:21.700
Microsoft calls

41:21.700 --> 41:22.220
it so I'm

41:22.220 --> 41:22.640
kind of learning

41:22.640 --> 41:23.200
that kind of

41:23.200 --> 41:23.840
adapting over

41:23.840 --> 41:24.520
from Oracle to

41:24.520 --> 41:25.240
SQL server

41:25.240 --> 41:26.820
believe it or

41:26.820 --> 41:27.280
not there's some

41:27.280 --> 41:27.780
stuff I like

41:27.780 --> 41:28.320
about it but

41:28.320 --> 41:28.740
there's some

41:28.740 --> 41:29.200
stuff I don't

41:29.200 --> 41:29.820
like as well

41:29.820 --> 41:30.380
and I think

41:30.380 --> 41:30.700
we'll probably

41:30.700 --> 41:31.480
get a mini

41:31.480 --> 41:32.120
review of that

41:32.120 --> 41:33.020
coming up soon

41:33.020 --> 41:34.840
touch back on

41:34.840 --> 41:35.740
databases again for

41:35.740 --> 41:36.220
another episode

41:36.220 --> 41:36.560
it's probably

41:36.560 --> 41:36.880
going to be a

41:36.880 --> 41:37.660
few episodes away

41:37.660 --> 41:38.080
I got a lot of

41:38.080 --> 41:38.680
good stuff lined

41:38.680 --> 41:38.960
up

41:39.320 --> 41:40.860
and I put

41:40.860 --> 41:41.300
the finishing

41:41.300 --> 41:42.160
touches on some

41:42.160 --> 41:42.720
articles this

41:42.720 --> 41:43.560
week I'm finally

41:43.560 --> 41:44.480
getting caught up

41:44.480 --> 41:45.620
on a lot of my

41:45.620 --> 41:46.860
writing I updated

41:46.860 --> 41:47.700
the website as a

41:47.700 --> 41:48.340
lot of people know

41:48.340 --> 41:49.080
with the magazine

41:49.080 --> 41:49.980
putting the radio

41:49.980 --> 41:50.900
server stuff up

41:50.900 --> 41:53.140
etc etc I also

41:53.140 --> 41:53.760
put the finishing

41:53.760 --> 41:54.420
touches well

41:54.420 --> 41:55.520
finishing touches on

41:55.520 --> 41:57.060
two articles and I

41:57.060 --> 41:58.220
wrote a new third

41:58.220 --> 42:00.060
article actually over

42:00.060 --> 42:01.400
the weekend something

42:01.400 --> 42:02.260
that I found that I

42:02.260 --> 42:02.800
thought was kind of

42:02.800 --> 42:03.500
interesting kind of

42:03.500 --> 42:04.880
funny so I sent

42:04.880 --> 42:05.740
three articles in

42:05.740 --> 42:07.060
total to 2600 in

42:07.060 --> 42:07.800
the past couple weeks

42:07.800 --> 42:08.440
and one into

42:08.440 --> 42:10.280
blacklisted so

42:10.280 --> 42:11.480
hopefully we'll be

42:11.480 --> 42:12.200
seeing those in

42:12.200 --> 42:12.980
print soon maybe

42:12.980 --> 42:13.640
maybe not who

42:13.640 --> 42:15.380
knows and that's

42:15.380 --> 42:16.520
been pretty much it

42:16.520 --> 42:17.320
for me believe me

42:17.320 --> 42:17.960
that was enough

42:17.960 --> 42:18.960
don't get me wrong

42:18.960 --> 42:21.080
did you have now

42:21.080 --> 42:21.700
we're going to talk

42:21.700 --> 42:23.500
about meme streams

42:23.500 --> 42:24.220
which I know is

42:24.220 --> 42:25.260
your big that's your

42:25.260 --> 42:26.680
baby but is there

42:26.680 --> 42:27.360
anything else that

42:27.360 --> 42:27.840
you've been working

42:27.840 --> 42:28.680
on lately that's

42:28.680 --> 42:29.340
just really been

42:29.340 --> 42:30.660
interesting to you or

42:30.660 --> 42:31.420
any other projects

42:31.420 --> 42:32.060
you've started that

42:32.060 --> 42:32.680
you wanted to talk

42:32.680 --> 42:34.020
about well you know

42:34.020 --> 42:34.860
I was thinking about

42:34.860 --> 42:35.580
how to answer this

42:35.580 --> 42:36.380
question I've got

42:36.380 --> 42:37.160
always got lots of

42:37.160 --> 42:38.280
projects going on but

42:38.280 --> 42:39.440
I decided instead that

42:39.440 --> 42:40.300
I wanted to mention a

42:40.300 --> 42:42.080
book oh we love

42:42.080 --> 42:43.860
books there was this

42:43.860 --> 42:44.520
really interesting

42:44.520 --> 42:45.360
article that I read

42:45.360 --> 42:46.300
this morning on a

42:46.300 --> 42:49.640
Riley net by this guy

42:49.640 --> 42:51.020
who read this he read

42:51.020 --> 42:51.920
this book called the

42:51.920 --> 42:52.720
villains of all

42:52.720 --> 42:54.460
nations Atlantic pirates

42:54.460 --> 42:55.900
of the golden age by

42:55.900 --> 42:58.200
Marcus Rediker and it's

42:58.200 --> 42:59.860
a book about pirates in

42:59.860 --> 43:01.640
the 18th century and this

43:01.640 --> 43:03.040
guy he's writing for a

43:03.040 --> 43:04.000
Riley net you know I

43:04.000 --> 43:04.920
mean he's he's a

43:04.920 --> 43:06.600
computer guy and he

43:06.600 --> 43:07.320
he was reading about

43:07.320 --> 43:08.840
these these 18th century

43:08.840 --> 43:09.660
pirates and he was

43:09.660 --> 43:10.820
thinking that you know

43:10.820 --> 43:11.820
he there are some

43:11.820 --> 43:12.940
parallels between them

43:12.940 --> 43:14.500
and sort of you know

43:14.500 --> 43:16.000
the pirates of today

43:16.000 --> 43:16.780
in the computer

43:16.780 --> 43:19.480
community and you know

43:19.480 --> 43:20.820
it's Rediker this

43:20.820 --> 43:21.680
author that he's

43:21.680 --> 43:22.680
referencing is kind of

43:22.680 --> 43:24.300
a Marxist and so his

43:24.300 --> 43:26.260
he kind of views 18th

43:26.260 --> 43:27.160
century pirates through

43:27.160 --> 43:28.360
this rose-colored lens

43:28.360 --> 43:29.740
but you know he says

43:29.740 --> 43:32.880
you know pirates had

43:32.880 --> 43:33.900
created an on-board

43:33.900 --> 43:35.120
ethos of democracy

43:35.120 --> 43:36.140
sharing and mutual

43:36.140 --> 43:37.240
insurance they created

43:37.240 --> 43:38.620
the first social

43:38.620 --> 43:40.080
security system and

43:40.080 --> 43:40.860
this was in contrast

43:40.860 --> 43:41.760
to military and

43:41.760 --> 43:42.680
trading ships of the

43:42.680 --> 43:43.440
day ruled by

43:43.440 --> 43:44.840
absolutist captains

43:44.840 --> 43:46.040
who cheated their

43:46.040 --> 43:47.160
staff and kept food

43:47.160 --> 43:47.980
and water rations

43:47.980 --> 43:49.160
criminally low and

43:49.160 --> 43:50.520
freely employed the

43:50.520 --> 43:52.700
whip and you know he

43:52.700 --> 43:53.900
goes on to discuss how

43:53.900 --> 43:56.000
it is difficult to

43:56.000 --> 43:57.920
is it difficult to find

43:57.920 --> 43:58.980
a common thread between

43:58.980 --> 43:59.960
the vilification of

43:59.960 --> 44:01.020
18th century pirates

44:01.020 --> 44:02.060
and the vilification of

44:02.060 --> 44:02.840
people who illegally

44:02.840 --> 44:04.120
trade and sell music

44:04.120 --> 44:05.700
movies and books and

44:05.700 --> 44:06.840
software today like the

44:06.840 --> 44:07.880
old pirates information

44:07.880 --> 44:09.620
traders create a

44:09.620 --> 44:10.500
bounty from the work of

44:10.500 --> 44:11.540
others but at the same

44:11.540 --> 44:12.500
time they create a new

44:12.500 --> 44:13.760
vision of information

44:13.760 --> 44:15.440
democracy that contrasts

44:15.440 --> 44:16.420
positively with the

44:16.420 --> 44:17.280
control freaks and

44:17.280 --> 44:18.840
commercial cynicism of

44:18.840 --> 44:19.820
the mainstream media

44:19.820 --> 44:23.020
conglomerates so you

44:23.020 --> 44:23.840
know I like I said

44:23.840 --> 44:25.120
Rediker is kind of a

44:25.120 --> 44:26.320
Marxist so I'm not sure

44:26.320 --> 44:27.480
like I haven't read his

44:27.480 --> 44:28.340
book his book might

44:28.340 --> 44:29.380
actually be very good

44:29.380 --> 44:30.920
but you know he does

44:30.920 --> 44:31.780
kind of have a certain

44:31.780 --> 44:33.860
take on things and it

44:33.860 --> 44:35.100
reminded me though that

44:35.100 --> 44:36.080
I've kind of thought

44:36.080 --> 44:36.920
about this analogy

44:36.920 --> 44:38.520
between you know 18th

44:38.520 --> 44:39.420
century pirates and

44:39.420 --> 44:41.360
computer hackers before

44:41.360 --> 44:43.140
and I have a favorite

44:43.140 --> 44:44.540
book about pirates and

44:44.540 --> 44:46.480
it's called Pirate

44:46.480 --> 44:49.140
Utopias Moorish Corsairs

44:49.140 --> 44:51.080
and European Renegados

44:51.080 --> 44:52.980
and it's by this guy named

44:52.980 --> 44:56.300
Peter Lamborn Wilson who is

44:56.300 --> 44:57.740
kind of well known in the

44:57.740 --> 44:59.480
in the cyberpunk scene he

44:59.480 --> 45:01.160
wrote this he wrote this

45:01.160 --> 45:02.340
book called Temporary

45:02.340 --> 45:03.720
Autonomous Zones which

45:03.720 --> 45:05.000
under a different pen name

45:05.000 --> 45:06.500
which is a sort of about

45:06.500 --> 45:07.640
anarchies and it talks

45:07.640 --> 45:09.420
about cyberspace and how

45:09.420 --> 45:11.020
you can create sort of

45:11.020 --> 45:13.400
small anarchies on bulletin

45:13.400 --> 45:16.880
boards in cyberspace but you

45:16.880 --> 45:18.000
know this book is about

45:18.000 --> 45:19.860
pirates in North Africa

45:19.860 --> 45:21.340
in the 18th century and

45:21.340 --> 45:22.280
you know he did a bunch

45:22.280 --> 45:23.300
of research and there

45:23.300 --> 45:23.940
aren't many good

45:23.940 --> 45:25.560
references and he quotes

45:25.560 --> 45:27.000
some of the things that

45:27.000 --> 45:28.520
they said and some of the

45:28.520 --> 45:29.360
things that they did and

45:29.360 --> 45:30.420
tries to figure out what

45:30.420 --> 45:31.940
motivated them and you

45:31.940 --> 45:32.960
know sort of the ideas

45:32.960 --> 45:34.200
that they you know felt

45:34.200 --> 45:36.280
oppressed by the you know

45:36.280 --> 45:37.620
sort of proper Victorian

45:37.620 --> 45:39.680
English society and they you

45:39.680 --> 45:40.740
know didn't feel like they

45:40.740 --> 45:43.120
could really be free and so

45:43.120 --> 45:44.840
they you know so they kind

45:44.840 --> 45:46.380
of revolted by building their

45:46.380 --> 45:47.780
own little world in North

45:47.780 --> 45:49.540
Africa or they could you

45:49.540 --> 45:50.860
know what they did you

45:50.860 --> 45:52.260
know clearly that they you

45:52.260 --> 45:53.060
know it's you know they

45:53.060 --> 45:54.460
aren't they aren't angels by

45:54.460 --> 45:55.640
any means they were you

45:55.640 --> 45:56.620
know rating ships and the

45:56.620 --> 45:58.080
like in order to in order to

45:58.080 --> 46:00.320
pave their lifestyle but you

46:00.320 --> 46:01.040
know at the same time they

46:01.040 --> 46:02.320
had kind of an egalitarian

46:02.320 --> 46:05.540
culture and they they and

46:05.540 --> 46:06.720
it's just interesting to see

46:06.720 --> 46:08.840
these guys and you know see

46:08.840 --> 46:10.320
what they did to you know

46:10.320 --> 46:12.220
escape the society and you

46:12.220 --> 46:13.640
know how that you know how

46:13.640 --> 46:14.840
they tried to create freedom

46:14.840 --> 46:18.000
in their lives so I would

46:18.000 --> 46:19.040
highly recommend this book

46:19.040 --> 46:20.080
if you're kind of interested

46:20.080 --> 46:22.020
in it's it's kind of a it's

46:22.020 --> 46:22.780
kind of an interesting

46:22.780 --> 46:24.740
subject and maybe we'll

46:24.740 --> 46:26.540
maybe we'll draw you away

46:26.540 --> 46:28.540
from the hundreds of

46:28.540 --> 46:29.480
computer books that all of

46:29.480 --> 46:30.620
us read on a regular basis

46:30.620 --> 46:31.820
and this subject that's a

46:31.820 --> 46:33.000
that's a little bit of a

46:33.000 --> 46:35.160
tangent but anyway that's my

46:35.160 --> 46:36.700
yeah you know actually I

46:36.700 --> 46:40.240
first of all that that could

46:40.240 --> 46:41.600
be a whole show in itself

46:41.600 --> 46:43.440
a little non-technical but

46:43.440 --> 46:44.760
there's actually not joking

46:44.760 --> 46:46.080
aside there's a lot to talk

46:46.080 --> 46:47.000
about and debate right there

46:47.000 --> 46:47.820
because some things jump to

46:47.820 --> 46:49.000
my mind immediately there's

46:49.000 --> 46:51.400
definitely parallels there are

46:51.400 --> 46:52.620
definitely things in common

46:52.620 --> 46:54.940
but I would I'm not sure how

46:54.940 --> 46:56.580
to equate them or if they do

46:56.580 --> 46:59.400
equate exactly or the same

46:59.400 --> 47:01.960
you know I don't think they do

47:01.960 --> 47:03.340
equate exactly or the same I

47:03.340 --> 47:04.500
mean the reality is that most

47:04.500 --> 47:05.720
people in the hacker scene are

47:05.720 --> 47:07.740
not sort of making a living off

47:07.740 --> 47:09.040
of you know other people

47:09.040 --> 47:10.340
there they're just really sort

47:10.340 --> 47:11.300
of exploring and playing

47:11.300 --> 47:12.540
around with stuff but at the

47:12.540 --> 47:14.320
same time you know the

47:14.320 --> 47:16.280
hacker scene has this you

47:16.280 --> 47:18.080
know sort of you know it's

47:18.080 --> 47:19.320
an anti-establishment

47:19.320 --> 47:20.680
subculture and you know

47:20.680 --> 47:22.240
it's certainly all the people

47:22.240 --> 47:23.680
who are engaged with it seem

47:23.680 --> 47:25.360
to be very interested in you

47:25.360 --> 47:26.740
know freedom and you know

47:26.740 --> 47:28.440
they kind of seem to think

47:28.440 --> 47:29.900
that you know this is the

47:29.900 --> 47:31.180
world they live in is a little

47:31.180 --> 47:32.320
bit too restrictive and

47:32.320 --> 47:33.480
they're trying to figure out

47:33.480 --> 47:34.460
how to build a world in

47:34.460 --> 47:36.060
which they can be more free

47:36.060 --> 47:38.240
and there seems to be some

47:38.240 --> 47:39.700
similar thinking at least

47:39.700 --> 47:41.900
along those lines with with

47:41.900 --> 47:44.020
the North African pirates and

47:44.020 --> 47:46.240
you know it's at least an

47:46.240 --> 47:47.400
entertaining thing to read

47:47.400 --> 47:49.700
it's interesting to see the

47:49.700 --> 47:50.700
sort of thoughts that these

47:50.700 --> 47:51.800
people were having the things

47:51.800 --> 47:52.500
that they were writing

47:52.500 --> 47:54.460
yeah it sounds like comparing

47:54.460 --> 47:56.180
them to hackers and not so

47:56.180 --> 47:58.220
much pirates of today you know

47:58.220 --> 47:59.540
software pirates per se

47:59.540 --> 48:01.020
yeah comparing them to hackers

48:01.020 --> 48:02.200
I mean I use those words loosely

48:02.200 --> 48:03.800
in this in this case yeah and

48:03.800 --> 48:05.540
I'm sure they also were very

48:05.540 --> 48:06.880
you know broad in their

48:06.880 --> 48:08.560
definitions as well but um

48:08.560 --> 48:10.080
you know like for example

48:10.080 --> 48:11.420
again we could probably we

48:11.420 --> 48:12.360
could sit and talk about this

48:12.360 --> 48:13.600
for a long time anyway this

48:13.600 --> 48:14.700
is this is something we're

48:14.700 --> 48:15.580
going to save this we'll talk

48:15.580 --> 48:16.500
about this at freak nick you

48:16.500 --> 48:17.160
and I one day

48:17.160 --> 48:17.840
awesome

48:17.840 --> 48:20.060
yeah I mean because even like

48:20.060 --> 48:21.140
you said about them forming

48:21.140 --> 48:22.240
their own island forming their

48:22.240 --> 48:23.420
own society off you know I

48:23.420 --> 48:25.120
can't help but think yeah look

48:25.120 --> 48:25.920
at the peer-to-peer

48:25.920 --> 48:26.840
applications that went

48:26.840 --> 48:27.940
offshore so that they could

48:27.940 --> 48:29.040
survive and live and form

48:29.040 --> 48:31.640
their own you know anyway that

48:31.640 --> 48:32.940
yeah that could go on to be a

48:32.940 --> 48:35.300
whole a whole long topic

48:35.300 --> 48:35.680
there

48:35.680 --> 48:37.720
well anyway the

48:37.720 --> 48:38.560
um send me

48:38.560 --> 48:40.560
he's kind of an anarchist so

48:40.560 --> 48:42.100
his he certainly views pirates

48:42.100 --> 48:43.800
with his own his own viewpoint

48:43.800 --> 48:46.560
as well but uh I I think um I

48:46.560 --> 48:47.420
don't know whatever for some

48:47.420 --> 48:48.960
reason his viewpoint suited me

48:48.960 --> 48:50.880
better than uh than reddick's

48:50.880 --> 48:52.200
but uh you know check this stuff

48:52.200 --> 48:53.240
out it's interesting stuff

48:53.240 --> 48:55.280
yeah and definitely um email me

48:55.280 --> 48:57.520
links to that where people can

48:57.520 --> 48:59.060
check it out online and you know

48:59.060 --> 49:00.520
if they want to order it if they

49:00.520 --> 49:01.600
want to buy it at amazon or

49:01.600 --> 49:03.380
o'reilly or whatever right on

49:03.380 --> 49:04.260
and we'll put it up in the show

49:04.260 --> 49:07.220
notes okay we'll do um and

49:07.220 --> 49:08.360
that's gonna leave us let's see

49:08.360 --> 49:11.600
we've probably got about 25 20 to

49:11.600 --> 49:13.880
25 minutes to jump into our main

49:13.880 --> 49:16.140
topic here um actually let me give

49:16.140 --> 49:18.900
one one very brief topic before we

49:18.900 --> 49:21.420
start on memetics and um and that

49:21.420 --> 49:23.340
is just a site that I stumbled across

49:23.340 --> 49:27.240
um earlier this week um monday

49:27.240 --> 49:29.960
actually um it's called see what

49:29.960 --> 49:33.660
you share dot com see what you

49:33.660 --> 49:36.100
share in reference to see what

49:36.100 --> 49:38.360
you're sharing on peer-to-peer

49:38.360 --> 49:41.020
networks and this is a site and I

49:41.020 --> 49:44.060
just find I just think it's really a

49:44.060 --> 49:47.000
uh I don't know if clever is the

49:47.000 --> 49:48.580
word but I I like the fact that

49:48.580 --> 49:49.760
somebody did it I think it's

49:49.760 --> 49:50.620
something that should have been

49:50.620 --> 49:53.360
done to let people see exactly how

49:53.360 --> 49:55.560
stupid they're being sometimes and

49:55.560 --> 49:58.220
what this is is um basically I

49:58.220 --> 49:59.360
don't know if it's one person or a

49:59.360 --> 50:00.380
group of people I don't know who

50:00.380 --> 50:03.080
runs the site quite honestly um but

50:03.080 --> 50:04.400
shouts to them anyway see what

50:04.400 --> 50:05.980
you share dot com and they're

50:05.980 --> 50:09.080
basically putting up lots of

50:09.080 --> 50:11.920
interesting documents and files that

50:11.920 --> 50:14.200
they have found on peer-to-peer file

50:14.200 --> 50:16.840
sharing networks and they found

50:16.840 --> 50:19.140
credit card numbers bank statements

50:19.140 --> 50:22.000
medical information pictures all

50:22.000 --> 50:23.960
these things that people you know

50:23.960 --> 50:25.840
they install whatever peer-to-peer

50:25.840 --> 50:27.620
application they want they just do

50:27.620 --> 50:29.400
it poorly sloppily they just want to

50:29.400 --> 50:30.900
be you know download whatever they

50:30.900 --> 50:31.920
want to download and they don't pay

50:31.920 --> 50:33.000
attention to what's going on they

50:33.000 --> 50:35.080
don't get it and understand it and

50:35.080 --> 50:38.260
you know it's been you know hackers

50:38.260 --> 50:39.740
have known this for a long time I

50:39.740 --> 50:41.260
found a lot of interesting stuff too

50:41.260 --> 50:43.020
if you know what to search for you

50:43.020 --> 50:44.900
know Google hacking is the art of

50:44.900 --> 50:47.540
knowing how to structure your queries

50:47.540 --> 50:49.780
or your your searches well enough that

50:49.780 --> 50:51.560
you can find precise information

50:51.560 --> 50:53.900
sometimes too precise that wasn't

50:53.900 --> 50:56.000
meant to be found and it's kind of the

50:56.000 --> 50:57.340
same thing with this if you know how

50:57.340 --> 51:00.580
to know what to look for um you'd be

51:00.580 --> 51:02.440
surprised even you know what how many

51:02.440 --> 51:03.860
people go on peer-to-peer and search

51:03.860 --> 51:08.300
for dot xls most people aren't looking

51:08.300 --> 51:10.040
for an excel spreadsheet on peer-to-peer

51:10.040 --> 51:12.220
they don't even think about it but you

51:12.220 --> 51:13.900
know what you might be surprised that

51:13.900 --> 51:15.500
you'll find quite a few spreadsheets and

51:15.500 --> 51:16.940
you might find quite a few personal

51:16.940 --> 51:19.040
spreadsheets and it doesn't stop at

51:19.040 --> 51:21.300
that so just kind of think about that

51:21.300 --> 51:23.300
and what could be shared any document

51:23.300 --> 51:25.260
files any text files what if you knew

51:25.260 --> 51:28.260
the um extension of I don't know

51:28.260 --> 51:31.760
their um uh what it what is that uh

51:31.760 --> 51:34.120
banking software from into it what is

51:34.120 --> 51:36.480
that called um yeah quicken if you knew

51:36.480 --> 51:38.180
the quicken files or extensions or

51:38.180 --> 51:39.540
directories or whatever you wanted to

51:39.540 --> 51:42.980
search by or what names you know you

51:42.980 --> 51:44.860
could be and that's exactly what this

51:44.860 --> 51:47.860
site shows this site shows excuse me

51:47.860 --> 51:51.340
um is all the dangerous things that

51:51.340 --> 51:52.740
people have put out there now they do

51:52.740 --> 51:54.500
the right thing and blur all all all the

51:54.500 --> 51:55.500
information you're not going to find

51:55.500 --> 51:57.340
credit card numbers they blur it out

51:57.340 --> 51:58.600
they blur out real names they're not

51:58.600 --> 52:00.480
embarrassing people but I love at the

52:00.480 --> 52:02.740
bottom the disclaimer the disclaimer I

52:02.740 --> 52:04.520
should have copied and pasted verbatim

52:04.520 --> 52:07.500
but basically the the disclaimer was all

52:07.500 --> 52:10.480
of these files were gained through legal

52:10.480 --> 52:13.300
access by downloading from peer-to-peer

52:13.300 --> 52:15.700
networks they were intentionally shared and

52:15.700 --> 52:18.440
we downloaded them they didn't go break

52:18.440 --> 52:20.160
into anything they didn't steal they

52:20.160 --> 52:21.640
didn't break into a server they didn't

52:21.640 --> 52:23.760
do anything like that they got

52:23.760 --> 52:25.280
something that someone was sharing

52:25.280 --> 52:27.460
intentionally they may not have known

52:27.460 --> 52:31.160
it but they were sharing it I don't

52:31.160 --> 52:32.920
know legally where they stand with that

52:32.920 --> 52:35.140
but I think that's something that

52:35.140 --> 52:36.640
needed to be done and I hope that site

52:36.640 --> 52:38.260
gets a lot of publicity so people see

52:38.260 --> 52:40.880
how stupid they are sometimes hey it

52:40.880 --> 52:42.440
needs to be done sometimes you need to

52:42.440 --> 52:43.760
raise awareness about that kind of

52:43.760 --> 52:45.640
thing because honestly you know people

52:45.640 --> 52:46.980
need to know how to configure their

52:46.980 --> 52:48.260
stuff and they need to think about it

52:48.260 --> 52:50.140
yeah sometimes you have to slap people

52:50.140 --> 52:51.380
in the face and call them stupid

52:51.380 --> 52:53.680
before they realize it you really do

52:53.680 --> 52:58.020
oh anyway gosh I hate to segue now

52:58.020 --> 53:01.100
after something so crude into something

53:01.100 --> 53:04.200
that's much more on it well I'm going to

53:04.200 --> 53:05.540
try to do it anyway I'm going to go from

53:05.540 --> 53:07.420
the rock bottom to the top here because

53:07.420 --> 53:08.580
the rest of the show we're going to

53:08.580 --> 53:10.780
talk about memetics and if you don't

53:10.780 --> 53:12.100
know what memetics are we're going to

53:12.100 --> 53:16.240
explain that and in detail and ask

53:16.240 --> 53:17.880
some questions that I have because I've

53:17.880 --> 53:20.640
only learned bits and pieces here and

53:20.640 --> 53:22.620
there and I know that this is something

53:22.620 --> 53:24.100
that's very near and dear to you and

53:24.100 --> 53:27.300
that you know very well so let's talk

53:27.300 --> 53:29.320
about first of all we're also going to

53:29.320 --> 53:32.320
show how it's applied but first of all

53:32.320 --> 53:34.680
let's just start about with the idea of

53:34.680 --> 53:37.140
what first of all is it memetics or

53:37.140 --> 53:39.100
memology or memology I've always said

53:39.100 --> 53:41.840
memetics I always say memetics too but

53:41.840 --> 53:43.980
the key word is the meme right now what

53:43.980 --> 53:47.080
exactly is a meme is that something is

53:47.080 --> 53:49.560
it an easy definition well no but you

53:49.560 --> 53:54.740
know but I'll give it to you the in order

53:54.740 --> 53:56.320
to understand memes you really have to

53:56.320 --> 54:00.760
talk about genes and I'll start by

54:00.760 --> 54:04.660
talking about Charles Darwin most people

54:04.660 --> 54:07.540
are familiar with Charles Darwin he wrote

54:07.540 --> 54:11.540
this book in the late 1800s which in

54:11.540 --> 54:13.740
which he you know proposed the theory of

54:13.740 --> 54:16.320
evolution and he talked about you know

54:16.320 --> 54:18.540
survival of the fittest and the idea is

54:18.540 --> 54:20.840
that different species compete with each

54:20.840 --> 54:23.720
other and the ones that the ones that are

54:23.720 --> 54:25.920
most fit to survive end up you know

54:25.920 --> 54:27.880
propagating and it all has to do with

54:27.880 --> 54:31.880
you know survival of the species and you

54:31.880 --> 54:32.920
know everyone's really familiar with

54:32.920 --> 54:37.760
those ideas and genes live forever you

54:37.760 --> 54:40.040
know one person may you know live for a

54:40.040 --> 54:43.120
hundred years but you know his genes were

54:43.120 --> 54:45.420
passed to him from his parents and he'll

54:45.420 --> 54:48.040
pass them on to his children and the

54:48.040 --> 54:50.200
gene you know may have a thousand year

54:50.200 --> 54:52.400
lifespan before it's wiped out of a

54:52.400 --> 54:55.260
species and it's really important to

54:55.260 --> 54:57.620
focus on genes in terms of how you think

54:57.620 --> 54:59.660
about evolution evolution doesn't really

54:59.660 --> 55:03.020
optimize for species and the easiest way

55:03.020 --> 55:04.820
to understand that is to think about the

55:04.820 --> 55:07.220
lifespan of species you know you would

55:07.220 --> 55:09.200
think that if the idea was to propagate

55:09.200 --> 55:11.540
your species all over the planet that the

55:11.540 --> 55:14.480
species that would that would win the

55:14.480 --> 55:16.340
evolutionary struggle would be the one

55:16.340 --> 55:19.280
that lived the longest you know you

55:19.280 --> 55:21.200
have species you have animals that live for

55:21.200 --> 55:23.600
three and four hundred years because you

55:23.600 --> 55:27.320
you know because if you live that long you

55:27.320 --> 55:29.380
you know you could reproduce a lot and you

55:29.380 --> 55:31.220
know you just sort of fill up the planet

55:31.220 --> 55:32.240
with uh...

55:32.240 --> 55:33.800
with people like you but the thing is

55:33.800 --> 55:35.080
that

55:35.080 --> 55:37.760
the reality is that animals don't usually

55:37.760 --> 55:39.400
live much longer than

55:39.400 --> 55:41.780
you know there first or second or you

55:41.780 --> 55:43.700
know after a few reproduction cycles they

55:43.700 --> 55:45.440
have enough time to produce you know a

55:45.440 --> 55:47.360
certain number of offspring and then they

55:47.360 --> 55:49.280
usually die

55:49.280 --> 55:51.420
and the reason for that is that you know

55:51.420 --> 55:54.380
even if a particular organism dies as

55:54.380 --> 55:56.320
long as it is reproduced its genes

55:56.320 --> 55:58.760
survive and that's that's all that's really

55:58.760 --> 56:02.540
important so of course the gene is just a

56:02.540 --> 56:04.960
piece of information it's it's this basic

56:04.960 --> 56:08.120
code that gets mixed up again ends up

56:08.120 --> 56:13.200
producing you know you know an animal but

56:13.200 --> 56:15.960
really at its heart it's just data and

56:15.960 --> 56:17.920
dawkins started thinking about you know

56:17.920 --> 56:21.060
what other kinds of data replicators do

56:21.060 --> 56:23.420
we have that kind of reproduce and

56:23.420 --> 56:27.540
survive in in the in the in the universe and

56:27.540 --> 56:30.340
so he he coined the term meme in the book

56:30.340 --> 56:34.480
the selfish gene to refer to an idea that

56:34.480 --> 56:38.620
works the same way that a gene does and i

56:38.620 --> 56:41.120
guess the best example of a meme is a

56:41.120 --> 56:41.900
knock-knock joke

56:41.900 --> 56:45.060
the thing about knock-knock jokes is that

56:45.060 --> 56:45.980
they're real small

56:45.980 --> 56:48.420
they're easy to remember and they're easy

56:48.420 --> 56:48.980
to repeat

56:48.980 --> 56:52.700
so if i tell you uh

56:52.700 --> 56:54.720
a knock-knock job

56:54.720 --> 56:59.220
a knock-knock joke hopefully you know you'll

56:59.220 --> 57:01.640
think it's funny and you'll remember it and

57:01.640 --> 57:03.200
it's really easy for you to spread it to

57:03.200 --> 57:05.220
someone else and you're motivated to do

57:05.220 --> 57:07.180
that because you want to make that person

57:07.180 --> 57:07.780
laugh too

57:07.780 --> 57:10.500
right so these knock-knock jokes they kind

57:10.500 --> 57:13.020
of spread word of mouth you know they're

57:13.020 --> 57:15.140
not you don't see them on tv you don't

57:15.140 --> 57:16.940
really read them in books you don't

57:16.940 --> 57:18.100
hear them on the radio it's just

57:18.100 --> 57:19.060
something that you hear from your

57:19.060 --> 57:21.580
friends and they live you know for

57:21.580 --> 57:24.060
years uh just passing from person to

57:24.060 --> 57:28.260
person sort of like a virus uh and that

57:28.260 --> 57:29.940
that's that's what dawkins was talking

57:29.940 --> 57:32.020
about when he was talking about a meme and

57:32.020 --> 57:34.600
he wanted to ask questions about you know

57:34.600 --> 57:36.180
what are the different kinds of memes in

57:36.180 --> 57:38.620
our society and uh what are they doing

57:38.620 --> 57:42.020
i think that uh you know there's two

57:42.020 --> 57:44.880
qualities that are that are um that make

57:44.880 --> 57:47.320
a piece of information more meme-like

57:47.320 --> 57:50.220
uh the first quality is that it reproduces

57:50.220 --> 57:50.620
readily

57:50.620 --> 57:52.960
okay wait before before we make a comparison

57:52.960 --> 57:56.700
to to memes and genes more specifically

57:56.700 --> 57:59.740
and data let's back up just a little bit

57:59.740 --> 58:04.000
okay if memes okay because i think you made

58:04.000 --> 58:05.580
a point early on i just wanted to clarify

58:05.580 --> 58:09.540
obviously an animal that i like um you're

58:09.540 --> 58:11.720
saying a child for example would have a

58:11.720 --> 58:15.040
genetic disorder and die at an early age

58:15.040 --> 58:17.640
due to a bad gene or bad genetic disorder

58:17.640 --> 58:19.420
and therefore it doesn't get passed on

58:19.420 --> 58:22.800
so the gene sort of dies out is that

58:22.800 --> 58:25.460
true or is does does data stop do you

58:25.460 --> 58:27.820
lose data if it's in a situation like

58:27.820 --> 58:31.420
that because again i'm very first of all

58:31.420 --> 58:32.820
i'm asking this is definitely a question

58:32.820 --> 58:34.380
because i don't know the first thing

58:34.380 --> 58:36.960
about it isn't that still carried on

58:36.960 --> 58:40.060
somehow through the parents if they had

58:40.060 --> 58:42.100
other childs that did not for example get

58:42.100 --> 58:42.840
that disorder

58:42.840 --> 58:48.060
okay okay so uh the way this works is uh

58:48.060 --> 58:50.940
you know that uh that information you're

58:50.940 --> 58:53.180
mentioning is related to the the question

58:53.180 --> 58:55.500
of um uh you know is it survival of the

58:55.500 --> 58:57.280
fittest genes or survival of the fittest

58:57.280 --> 58:59.880
species um certain kinds of information

58:59.880 --> 59:02.900
uh and in the case of genes certain kinds

59:02.900 --> 59:05.680
of genetic code are more apt to survive

59:05.680 --> 59:09.180
than others uh for example let me go let me

59:09.180 --> 59:12.460
let me go back to my my mimetic uh contact

59:12.460 --> 59:14.780
and talk about knock-knock jokes a knock-knock

59:14.780 --> 59:16.580
joke that isn't funny is not going to

59:16.580 --> 59:18.560
survive very long because you're not going

59:18.560 --> 59:20.620
to spread it you know someone might tell it

59:20.620 --> 59:21.860
to you but you're not going to tell it to

59:21.860 --> 59:23.160
somebody else because it's not very good

59:23.160 --> 59:26.880
uh the same thing happens with genes uh if

59:26.880 --> 59:29.220
you have a and you know if you have a gene

59:29.220 --> 59:33.220
that you know causes uh certain people who

59:33.220 --> 59:35.240
have it to die you know when they're 10

59:35.240 --> 59:37.460
years old chances are those people would

59:37.460 --> 59:39.800
not have made it to reproduction by the

59:39.800 --> 59:42.720
time uh that gene takes effect so they're

59:42.720 --> 59:44.820
not going to spread that gene onto their

59:44.820 --> 59:48.640
children uh whereas you know other animals

59:48.640 --> 59:50.620
that don't have that gene you know they'll

59:50.620 --> 59:53.980
they'll uh they'll you know happily

59:53.980 --> 59:55.700
reproduce and spread whatever genetic code

59:55.700 --> 59:59.080
they happen to have so uh genes that can

59:59.080 --> 01:00:02.460
cause uh um you know sort of early childhood

01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:05.120
illness are less likely to uh you know

01:00:05.120 --> 01:00:06.740
propagate in the gene pool and we certainly

01:00:06.740 --> 01:00:09.440
have them uh but they're rare there there

01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:10.960
is you know there's this thing that happens

01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:12.360
in genetics where certain genes are

01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:15.020
recessive and dominant and it's uh there

01:00:15.020 --> 01:00:17.120
are situations where you know you've got a

01:00:17.120 --> 01:00:19.380
genetic disorder uh that affects you as a

01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:21.640
child but um and it came from your parents

01:00:21.640 --> 01:00:25.280
but your parents didn't get it because um

01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:27.760
you know they uh they happen to get lucky

01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:30.140
uh you know and they they didn't get the

01:00:30.140 --> 01:00:32.240
you know that particular gene wasn't active

01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:35.120
it wasn't dominant for them all right so

01:00:35.120 --> 01:00:37.040
it's so i i think i understand now it's a

01:00:37.040 --> 01:00:40.320
matter of over time those genes because

01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:42.560
they don't get passed on as frequently they

01:00:42.560 --> 01:00:44.780
become more and more recessive so they may

01:00:44.780 --> 01:00:48.920
still exist but just less likely to uh take

01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:51.360
shape or take form well the reality is that

01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.260
they work their way out of the system because

01:00:53.260 --> 01:00:56.080
you know if 50 percent let's say we have two

01:00:56.080 --> 01:00:59.960
genes a or b and you either have a or b and

01:00:59.960 --> 01:01:02.480
you know 50 percent of the people who get a

01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:06.600
die before their cat uh you know but everyone

01:01:06.600 --> 01:01:09.460
who has b lives you know during your first

01:01:09.460 --> 01:01:13.120
generation you know you know you've got so

01:01:13.120 --> 01:01:14.720
many people with a and so many people with b

01:01:14.720 --> 01:01:17.060
and they're equal so in your second

01:01:17.060 --> 01:01:18.960
generation you've lost 50 percent of the

01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:21.220
people that had a so everyone who had b

01:01:21.220 --> 01:01:23.680
reproduced and only 50 percent of the

01:01:23.680 --> 01:01:26.160
people who had a reproduced and then in

01:01:26.160 --> 01:01:28.040
your next generation you lose half of the

01:01:28.040 --> 01:01:30.400
a's again right so it becomes more and

01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:32.000
more ultimately those kinds of genes

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:33.520
whittle themselves out and everyone in

01:01:33.520 --> 01:01:35.180
the world has just got b and very few

01:01:35.180 --> 01:01:37.460
people have a right but they they do

01:01:37.460 --> 01:01:39.720
still exist is what i'm basically asking

01:01:39.720 --> 01:01:42.940
they'll exist even on the most tiny

01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:46.640
minuscule fractional possibilities well i

01:01:46.640 --> 01:01:48.600
mean eventually they can die out they

01:01:48.600 --> 01:01:51.760
can oh yes i mean it's possible to uh for

01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:53.220
these things to get bred out of the system

01:01:53.220 --> 01:01:57.080
interesting i didn't know that uh the

01:01:57.080 --> 01:01:58.820
dominant recessive genes is a technical

01:01:58.820 --> 01:02:00.880
subject that i'm not really qualified to

01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:03.420
talk about sometimes uh you know genes are

01:02:03.420 --> 01:02:05.380
more likely to get exhibited if they exist in

01:02:05.380 --> 01:02:06.720
your system the other ones like they

01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:10.460
overpower each other uh uh so depending

01:02:10.460 --> 01:02:12.680
upon the certain makeup that you've got

01:02:12.680 --> 01:02:14.900
you know some things some things will end

01:02:14.900 --> 01:02:18.840
up uh you know exhibiting in you and you

01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:20.660
know other things you'll have the

01:02:20.660 --> 01:02:22.120
information inside of you but it won't

01:02:22.120 --> 01:02:23.760
actually turn into a physical

01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:25.960
characteristic right okay so let's so

01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:27.760
let's go back now to that idea of

01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:30.660
turning of memes as or excuse me as

01:02:30.660 --> 01:02:33.580
genes as types of data as being just

01:02:33.580 --> 01:02:35.280
basically like similar to data

01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:39.220
right i i mean genetic code is just

01:02:39.220 --> 01:02:42.560
information and it's information about

01:02:42.560 --> 01:02:46.380
how you build an animal uh and the

01:02:46.380 --> 01:02:48.880
reality is that uh memes in a sense are

01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:50.980
just information a knock-knock joke is

01:02:50.980 --> 01:02:53.320
just raw data but what's interesting

01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:55.940
about both genes and memes is that they

01:02:55.940 --> 01:02:58.700
replicate and they and they um spread

01:02:58.700 --> 01:03:01.200
themselves and they survive over long

01:03:01.200 --> 01:03:03.000
periods of time even though one

01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:05.560
particular carrier you know a person may

01:03:05.560 --> 01:03:07.960
have a gene and then die or a person

01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:09.460
may know a knock-knock joke and then

01:03:09.460 --> 01:03:12.740
either forget about it or die uh but you

01:03:12.740 --> 01:03:15.100
know the knock-knock joke lives on the the

01:03:15.100 --> 01:03:17.860
gene lives on uh you know because it gets

01:03:17.860 --> 01:03:20.540
reproduced that's what memetics is all

01:03:20.540 --> 01:03:22.880
about it's all about taking a look at pieces

01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:25.760
of information that tend to that tend to

01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:28.820
reproduce and spread through society in the

01:03:28.820 --> 01:03:31.020
same way that genes reproduce and spread

01:03:31.020 --> 01:03:32.660
through species

01:03:32.660 --> 01:03:37.780
okay so so memetics sounds like it's very

01:03:37.780 --> 01:03:40.180
very it's obviously very very closely tied to

01:03:40.180 --> 01:03:42.480
genetics as you said it's it's definitely

01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:46.620
that's what it's all about why do i hear the

01:03:46.620 --> 01:03:51.940
term memes and memetics so much lately like in

01:03:51.940 --> 01:03:56.360
um like uh you know i hear it used in the

01:03:56.360 --> 01:04:00.320
same breath and um i'm not forgive me if i'm

01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:02.080
putting on the spot here but as uh culture

01:04:02.080 --> 01:04:05.200
jamming for example because the something

01:04:05.200 --> 01:04:08.220
about repetition of ideas and slogans and

01:04:08.220 --> 01:04:09.900
catchphrases and that type of thing

01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:13.680
well there are there are there are two

01:04:13.680 --> 01:04:17.620
things that um make a meme there are all

01:04:17.620 --> 01:04:19.200
kinds of different pieces of information and

01:04:19.200 --> 01:04:22.880
some aren't very mean like and some are uh you

01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:26.260
know for example calculus isn't a very good

01:04:26.260 --> 01:04:29.260
meme because it's so complex and it takes a

01:04:29.260 --> 01:04:33.520
long time to communicate uh but it the thing

01:04:33.520 --> 01:04:35.660
is that it's very useful and so we do

01:04:35.660 --> 01:04:37.800
communicate it anyway so it does survive for

01:04:37.800 --> 01:04:40.280
long periods of time within our you know

01:04:40.280 --> 01:04:43.560
sort of you know information soup that uh

01:04:43.560 --> 01:04:45.560
gets shared between all of us human beings

01:04:45.560 --> 01:04:50.060
um but uh you know it it also spreads kind

01:04:50.060 --> 01:04:53.920
of slowly really complex ideas you know tend

01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:55.880
to spread slowly if you've got something that

01:04:55.880 --> 01:04:59.760
is as useful as calculus but it is as small

01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:01.740
as a knock knock joke that's the kind of

01:05:01.740 --> 01:05:03.480
thing that will spread through society like

01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:06.500
wildfires it's like a fad you know everyone

01:05:06.500 --> 01:05:07.980
will find out about it in the course of a

01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:09.820
very short period of time because it's

01:05:09.820 --> 01:05:11.500
really easy for it to spread and it's

01:05:11.500 --> 01:05:14.500
really um people really want to spread it

01:05:14.500 --> 01:05:17.980
so uh so something like culture jamming uh

01:05:17.980 --> 01:05:20.760
you know what uh what people who are trying

01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:23.900
to sort of influence other people might be

01:05:23.900 --> 01:05:26.840
interested in doing is finding ways to

01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:31.140
communicate their message uh um in in um

01:05:31.140 --> 01:05:33.760
in you know without necessarily like they

01:05:33.760 --> 01:05:35.740
they may not necessarily particularly when

01:05:35.740 --> 01:05:37.020
you're talking about culture jammers they

01:05:37.020 --> 01:05:39.920
don't necessarily have access to you know uh

01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:43.440
big tv stations and you know big media so

01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:45.040
they can't really write an article and have

01:05:45.040 --> 01:05:47.380
it appear uh and have like millions of

01:05:47.380 --> 01:05:49.500
people read it so you know how are they

01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:51.160
going to get their message out there to a

01:05:51.160 --> 01:05:53.380
large number of people well maybe what if

01:05:53.380 --> 01:05:57.100
they expressed their their uh their idea in

01:05:57.100 --> 01:05:59.260
such a way that it was like a knock knock

01:05:59.260 --> 01:06:01.880
joke it was really short and maybe it was

01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:04.580
even funny and uh people would repeat it

01:06:04.580 --> 01:06:08.080
word of mouth um you know sort of maybe

01:06:08.080 --> 01:06:11.080
take a quip at somebody and other people

01:06:11.080 --> 01:06:13.080
will spread it and it kind of you know you

01:06:13.080 --> 01:06:14.480
might spread it because you think it's

01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:16.800
funny but it also kind of communicates this

01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:18.940
message and as it goes from person to

01:06:18.940 --> 01:06:21.540
person as it kind of spreads around um you

01:06:21.540 --> 01:06:24.360
know it informs people while it entertains

01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:27.080
them so you know people who are interested in

01:06:27.080 --> 01:06:29.480
sort of communicating messages through society

01:06:29.480 --> 01:06:31.760
might be interested in coming up with really

01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:34.660
good memes that they could uh that they could

01:06:34.660 --> 01:06:36.300
tell a few people to that would kind of

01:06:36.300 --> 01:06:39.740
spread on their own um and would uh and

01:06:39.740 --> 01:06:42.240
would give a particular piece of information

01:06:42.240 --> 01:06:45.120
to everyone everyone who um who heard about

01:06:45.120 --> 01:06:48.660
it let me let me think let me let me let me

01:06:48.660 --> 01:06:50.040
throw this at you and tell me if this is a

01:06:50.040 --> 01:06:52.600
good example or a bad example okay um

01:06:52.600 --> 01:06:54.060
thinking like calculus like you said

01:06:54.060 --> 01:06:55.940
something that uh sure it may spread around

01:06:55.940 --> 01:06:57.300
for a while but it's not really that way

01:06:57.300 --> 01:06:59.500
like like let's let me go with let me go

01:06:59.500 --> 01:07:01.080
music let me go on a music thing

01:07:01.080 --> 01:07:04.960
beethoven mozart all these brilliant

01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:07.480
composers and stuff but how many people do

01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:09.780
you hear playing that in their car or

01:07:09.780 --> 01:07:11.640
singing or whistling that and stuff like

01:07:11.640 --> 01:07:15.480
that that's something that as an idea as a

01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.460
bit of data as a an existence a meme i

01:07:18.460 --> 01:07:20.140
guess is i guess i can use the word that

01:07:20.140 --> 01:07:23.840
way you don't hear so often yet you can

01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:26.100
very easily and commonly hear somebody

01:07:26.100 --> 01:07:28.180
walking down the street whistling the

01:07:28.180 --> 01:07:30.820
mcdonald's jingle that's interesting or

01:07:30.820 --> 01:07:32.640
something like that because it's short

01:07:32.640 --> 01:07:34.960
easy to remember and stick into people's

01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:36.940
head and therefore propagate me more

01:07:36.940 --> 01:07:39.520
likely be more likely to propagate and

01:07:39.520 --> 01:07:41.660
spread because of its simplicity because

01:07:41.660 --> 01:07:44.020
it's catchy because it's something that can

01:07:44.020 --> 01:07:46.840
easily stick in people's mind and one of

01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:48.800
the things that dawkins talks about in

01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:51.460
the selfish gene is the idea that memes

01:07:51.460 --> 01:07:54.200
sort of change the consciousness of the

01:07:54.200 --> 01:07:57.000
person they infect uh when you when you

01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:58.760
receive this piece of information it kind

01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:02.640
of rewires your head a little bit and how

01:08:02.640 --> 01:08:04.780
effective it is at rewiring your head

01:08:04.780 --> 01:08:07.600
relates to how likely you are to spread

01:08:07.600 --> 01:08:09.720
it if it really has a great influence on

01:08:09.720 --> 01:08:12.260
your thinking then you know you're very

01:08:12.260 --> 01:08:14.900
likely to uh you're very very likely to

01:08:14.900 --> 01:08:17.100
repeat it and catchy jingles are a good

01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:19.440
example and that's why you know advertisers

01:08:19.440 --> 01:08:22.040
use them uh you know they they want to

01:08:22.040 --> 01:08:24.520
get a song like the mcdonald's theme song

01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:26.740
stuck in your head and then they attach

01:08:26.740 --> 01:08:28.940
this and it's catchy so it's it has it

01:08:28.940 --> 01:08:31.340
has a i guess a good memetic quality in

01:08:31.340 --> 01:08:33.560
the sense that it it rewires you and it

01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:35.660
tends to pop up in your thinking and then

01:08:35.660 --> 01:08:37.520
they attach this message to it you know

01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:40.520
mcdonald's um so whenever this this thing

01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:42.660
pops up in your head you you know you kind

01:08:42.660 --> 01:08:46.320
of end up going to mcdonald's um so i mean

01:08:46.320 --> 01:08:48.600
that's you know that's certainly uh that's

01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:50.860
certainly related and and to take that a

01:08:50.860 --> 01:08:52.820
step further then and apply it again to

01:08:52.820 --> 01:08:55.700
my why always i i think i'm putting two

01:08:55.700 --> 01:08:57.600
and two together here the way it's i see

01:08:57.600 --> 01:08:59.340
it mentioned with culture jamming so much

01:08:59.340 --> 01:09:01.640
is and let's stick with a mcdonald's

01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:03.840
example the golden arches you know very

01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:05.820
famous everybody knows and recognizes the

01:09:05.820 --> 01:09:07.900
golden arches simplicity easy to remember

01:09:07.900 --> 01:09:09.940
something you associate with food whatever

01:09:09.940 --> 01:09:13.600
um the culture jamming that i've seen is

01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:17.540
like artists generally um who will take

01:09:17.540 --> 01:09:19.720
those mcdonald's arches and spin them and

01:09:19.720 --> 01:09:22.520
put their own message into it like the

01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:26.740
t-shirts that say um oh gosh i can't

01:09:26.740 --> 01:09:28.060
think one of one now that i'm on the

01:09:28.060 --> 01:09:30.620
spot it'll have the mcdonald's arches but

01:09:30.620 --> 01:09:32.560
it'll have little demon eyes inside of it

01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:33.880
or something i'm just making something

01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:36.100
completely up to show that yes you

01:09:36.100 --> 01:09:38.200
recognize the arches but i'm sending you

01:09:38.200 --> 01:09:40.440
a different message about the arches that's

01:09:40.440 --> 01:09:41.980
true is that how it's applied to culture

01:09:41.980 --> 01:09:43.500
jamming i think i'm actually understanding

01:09:43.500 --> 01:09:45.160
this a little bit yeah i think you're

01:09:45.160 --> 01:09:47.600
right the only thing that i add is that

01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:48.960
you know those aren't really effective

01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:51.760
memes unless you spread them so you know

01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:54.340
if you see them and and you know on the

01:09:54.340 --> 01:09:56.580
one hand if they can sort of take

01:09:56.580 --> 01:09:59.080
advantage of um you know a corporate

01:09:59.080 --> 01:10:01.200
jingle or some some sort of thing like

01:10:01.200 --> 01:10:02.640
that that's in your head that's going to

01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:04.060
pop in your head and they can put a

01:10:04.060 --> 01:10:06.060
different message there then that's very

01:10:06.060 --> 01:10:08.740
interesting um you know because they can

01:10:08.740 --> 01:10:11.800
uh you know because they can kind of piggyback

01:10:11.800 --> 01:10:15.980
on that uh that infectious idea uh in order

01:10:15.980 --> 01:10:18.780
to present a different uh concept to you but

01:10:18.780 --> 01:10:22.160
the thing is that memes really have to be um

01:10:22.160 --> 01:10:24.460
they really have to do with uh reproduction

01:10:24.460 --> 01:10:26.620
they really have to do with the idea that

01:10:26.620 --> 01:10:28.820
uh it's not just that you'll get infected

01:10:28.820 --> 01:10:30.440
with it but that you'll spread it to

01:10:30.440 --> 01:10:32.960
somebody else so if you see a t-shirt that's

01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:35.840
got kind of a funny slogan on it um you know

01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:38.100
it's not just about like does it affect your

01:10:38.100 --> 01:10:40.140
thinking it's also about you know are you

01:10:40.140 --> 01:10:42.300
going to say to somebody else hey i saw

01:10:42.300 --> 01:10:44.860
this really funny t-shirt or i want to buy

01:10:44.860 --> 01:10:46.980
one of those t-shirts as well or you know

01:10:46.980 --> 01:10:49.600
you'll buy one as well you know maybe you'll

01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:51.840
cause other people to buy them it's all

01:10:51.840 --> 01:10:53.580
about like does it spread from person to

01:10:53.580 --> 01:10:55.940
person through the word of mouth network

01:10:55.940 --> 01:10:57.980
gotcha yeah i understand i think that is

01:10:57.980 --> 01:10:59.220
what the goal of a lot of the culture

01:10:59.220 --> 01:11:01.520
jammers is to you know sell the t-shirts

01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:03.940
that are slave you know not the farfing

01:11:03.940 --> 01:11:05.760
you can t-shirt but the one that's a little

01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:08.000
bit different for you know i think i see

01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.020
that now now tell me what have you done

01:11:11.020 --> 01:11:12.460
we've got probably about 10 more minutes

01:11:12.460 --> 01:11:15.800
here we got time um tell me exactly how

01:11:15.800 --> 01:11:20.060
memes and how you how memetics can be

01:11:20.060 --> 01:11:22.540
applied in a technical application because

01:11:22.540 --> 01:11:25.500
that's really what you do over at meme

01:11:25.500 --> 01:11:29.020
streams well uh you know the thing you

01:11:29.020 --> 01:11:30.700
might want to ask about memes once you

01:11:30.700 --> 01:11:32.360
realize that they exist once you realize

01:11:32.360 --> 01:11:34.040
these pieces of information kind of

01:11:34.040 --> 01:11:37.640
replicate and spread is uh you might want

01:11:37.640 --> 01:11:39.900
to find out two things the first is you

01:11:39.900 --> 01:11:43.520
know how did they spread uh um you know

01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:45.500
where are the where are the people that

01:11:45.500 --> 01:11:47.860
are really good at spreading them um you

01:11:47.860 --> 01:11:49.940
know are there people that uh you know

01:11:49.940 --> 01:11:52.280
maybe one somebody gets a meme and you

01:11:52.280 --> 01:11:53.620
know they tell everyone they know about

01:11:53.620 --> 01:11:54.720
it but they don't really know that many

01:11:54.720 --> 01:11:57.580
people so it doesn't go very far whereas

01:11:57.580 --> 01:11:59.600
if you tell somebody else about it that

01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:01.500
person they tend to be connected to

01:12:01.500 --> 01:12:03.360
everybody and they start talking about

01:12:03.360 --> 01:12:04.620
it and all of a sudden everyone's

01:12:04.620 --> 01:12:07.000
talking about it those are kind of

01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:09.860
interesting questions uh and the second

01:12:09.860 --> 01:12:11.580
thing that you know i think would be

01:12:11.580 --> 01:12:13.500
really useful is to be able to harness

01:12:13.500 --> 01:12:16.020
the the knowledge about the spread of

01:12:16.020 --> 01:12:19.140
memes through society so that you can

01:12:19.140 --> 01:12:22.480
kind of catch memes before they reach

01:12:22.480 --> 01:12:24.460
critical mass maybe you want to know

01:12:24.460 --> 01:12:26.540
which ideas are up and coming and they

01:12:26.540 --> 01:12:28.600
really haven't they really haven't you

01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:30.460
know spread all over the place but a

01:12:30.460 --> 01:12:31.820
few people are talking about them and

01:12:31.820 --> 01:12:33.660
they might be the next the next big

01:12:33.660 --> 01:12:35.500
thing maybe you want to know about that

01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:37.680
before everyone else does so you want

01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:39.580
to be in tune to where those new ideas

01:12:39.580 --> 01:12:43.280
those new those new memes arise right so

01:12:43.280 --> 01:12:45.980
um those are those are kind of the

01:12:45.980 --> 01:12:48.300
questions that me and a friend of mine

01:12:48.300 --> 01:12:50.300
started uh asking each other and we uh

01:12:50.300 --> 01:12:53.580
we kind of um got from that topic on to

01:12:53.580 --> 01:12:57.060
uh you know it's a very long story we

01:12:57.060 --> 01:12:58.460
were talking about uh reputation

01:12:58.460 --> 01:13:01.340
systems which is a kind of um related

01:13:01.340 --> 01:13:04.320
subject and reputation systems have to

01:13:04.320 --> 01:13:07.480
do with uh determining you know who it

01:13:07.480 --> 01:13:09.060
is that you trust who it is that you

01:13:09.060 --> 01:13:12.620
respect uh and that that's a very

01:13:12.620 --> 01:13:14.620
important thing when you get into the

01:13:14.620 --> 01:13:16.160
spread of memes um you know somebody

01:13:16.160 --> 01:13:18.380
that you that you don't respect you

01:13:18.380 --> 01:13:19.500
know that gives you a piece of

01:13:19.500 --> 01:13:21.240
information you're much less likely to

01:13:21.240 --> 01:13:23.620
you know repeat it than if um if

01:13:23.620 --> 01:13:25.180
someone you have a lot of interest in

01:13:25.180 --> 01:13:27.320
and trust in uh gives you a piece of

01:13:27.320 --> 01:13:29.720
information uh but what we really

01:13:29.720 --> 01:13:31.640
wanted to try to do is a couple of

01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:32.840
different things but one of the things

01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:35.700
we wanted to do is build a build a

01:13:35.700 --> 01:13:39.020
network where we could see um see how

01:13:39.020 --> 01:13:41.460
memes propagate between people you know

01:13:41.460 --> 01:13:43.260
sort of word of mouth and figure out

01:13:43.260 --> 01:13:45.920
you know who who's got the most

01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:48.920
interesting memes and um maybe get those

01:13:48.920 --> 01:13:51.380
memes in front of us faster than they

01:13:51.380 --> 01:13:55.080
otherwise would uh so uh what what

01:13:55.080 --> 01:13:57.360
meme streams does uh it's it's a

01:13:57.360 --> 01:14:00.180
reputation system for weblogs uh weblogs

01:14:00.180 --> 01:14:03.120
are very meany things uh you go out on a

01:14:03.120 --> 01:14:05.220
website and you see a an interesting

01:14:05.220 --> 01:14:07.660
article and what you do is share it on

01:14:07.660 --> 01:14:09.840
your weblog uh so that other people can

01:14:09.840 --> 01:14:12.520
get it and maybe they share it too um

01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:14.600
networks of weblogs are really

01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:16.880
interesting places to study memetics you

01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:19.340
can figure out you know that there's a

01:14:19.340 --> 01:14:22.080
couple of uh there's a couple of weblogs

01:14:22.080 --> 01:14:23.780
that you know sort of are at the center

01:14:23.780 --> 01:14:25.180
of the network and when those guys find

01:14:25.180 --> 01:14:26.840
out about something everybody's got it

01:14:26.840 --> 01:14:30.040
uh and you can maybe find out where

01:14:30.040 --> 01:14:31.900
those guys get the information that

01:14:31.900 --> 01:14:35.280
they're looking at uh and you can you

01:14:35.280 --> 01:14:36.820
know you can if you can if you could

01:14:36.820 --> 01:14:39.100
look at all the traffic that goes into a

01:14:39.100 --> 01:14:41.360
big weblog network and see where things

01:14:41.360 --> 01:14:43.940
start how they flow you might learn some

01:14:43.940 --> 01:14:47.280
interesting things about how people work uh so

01:14:47.280 --> 01:14:50.840
so uh mean streams is a reputation

01:14:50.840 --> 01:14:53.060
system for weblogs you post content there

01:14:53.060 --> 01:14:55.580
and you read other people's content and it

01:14:55.580 --> 01:14:58.820
kind of passively learns you know whose

01:14:58.820 --> 01:15:01.120
recommendations you find interesting and

01:15:01.120 --> 01:15:03.280
whose um whose content you tend to read

01:15:03.280 --> 01:15:05.920
and it figures out who you trust and one of

01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:08.100
the things it does is it shows you over

01:15:08.100 --> 01:15:09.760
time once it's learned about this stuff it

01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:12.240
shows you content that it thinks you'll

01:15:12.240 --> 01:15:14.720
like because you've trusted those people

01:15:14.720 --> 01:15:18.700
in the past uh so that's kind of um that's

01:15:18.700 --> 01:15:21.220
kind of uh you know it's useful because it

01:15:21.220 --> 01:15:23.080
helps you filter out all this stuff that

01:15:23.080 --> 01:15:24.380
goes around on the internet you know it

01:15:24.380 --> 01:15:26.260
gets you it gets you closest to the

01:15:26.260 --> 01:15:28.280
people that you uh that you are most

01:15:28.280 --> 01:15:30.300
interested in and the other thing that

01:15:30.300 --> 01:15:33.540
it does is uh it kind of it doesn't just

01:15:33.540 --> 01:15:35.400
look at who you find interesting but it

01:15:35.400 --> 01:15:37.680
looks at who those people get their

01:15:37.680 --> 01:15:39.800
information from and as you use the

01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:42.320
system over time you know maybe you start

01:15:42.320 --> 01:15:43.680
out by reading a couple of your friends

01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:47.100
weblogs and but uh the the information

01:15:47.100 --> 01:15:48.920
that you really like from one of your

01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:50.340
friends is actually coming from someone

01:15:50.340 --> 01:15:52.340
else well the system will figure that out

01:15:52.340 --> 01:15:54.000
and then you'll start reading that person

01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:56.640
directly and then maybe it turns out that

01:15:56.640 --> 01:15:58.880
the stuff that he's recommending you know

01:15:58.880 --> 01:16:01.340
maybe most of the stuff that you like

01:16:01.340 --> 01:16:03.820
comes from another person and he's getting

01:16:03.820 --> 01:16:06.180
it from them so it'll it'll put you

01:16:06.180 --> 01:16:07.940
closer and closer and closer to the

01:16:07.940 --> 01:16:09.640
sources of information that you really

01:16:09.640 --> 01:16:11.760
find interesting right and i see the

01:16:11.760 --> 01:16:14.160
clear obvious relationship to genetics

01:16:14.160 --> 01:16:16.180
and passing the information along

01:16:16.180 --> 01:16:20.260
yep it's it's all about uh it's all

01:16:20.260 --> 01:16:24.300
about replicators um now is it just by

01:16:24.300 --> 01:16:26.220
people that you associate it with or is

01:16:26.220 --> 01:16:29.180
it also by topic does it track and can

01:16:29.180 --> 01:16:32.380
tell the way like if i only let's say i'm

01:16:32.380 --> 01:16:35.560
i find uh acidus a lot of the links that

01:16:35.560 --> 01:16:37.220
he provides to be very interesting and

01:16:37.220 --> 01:16:40.240
the system can tell that and then uh

01:16:40.240 --> 01:16:42.160
whoever acidus finds interesting in turn

01:16:42.160 --> 01:16:43.820
and on down the line but what if i only

01:16:43.820 --> 01:16:46.440
find interesting like the technical and

01:16:46.440 --> 01:16:48.000
like on the show we always say we try to

01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:50.620
stay technical not political is it is

01:16:50.620 --> 01:16:52.460
there some way that it will weed out not

01:16:52.460 --> 01:16:54.800
only everything that acidus says but the

01:16:54.800 --> 01:16:56.340
things that acidus says that are tech

01:16:56.340 --> 01:16:58.180
related is there a way to control that

01:16:58.180 --> 01:17:01.040
uh yes there is um you know in this

01:17:01.040 --> 01:17:04.440
system uh you you you post them when you

01:17:04.440 --> 01:17:06.780
post a weblog or you post a weblog entry

01:17:06.780 --> 01:17:08.700
you associate it with the topic and then

01:17:08.700 --> 01:17:11.540
when you were um when you're using the

01:17:11.540 --> 01:17:14.320
system it doesn't just ask you know whose

01:17:14.320 --> 01:17:16.680
links you like it asks uh it rates the

01:17:16.680 --> 01:17:18.920
person and it rates the person by topic

01:17:18.920 --> 01:17:20.800
and the whole all the articles in the

01:17:20.800 --> 01:17:22.380
system were broken down by topic so you

01:17:22.380 --> 01:17:24.220
can say something like i like what this

01:17:24.220 --> 01:17:27.120
guy's talking about technology but i don't

01:17:27.120 --> 01:17:29.180
necessarily i'm not so interested in

01:17:29.180 --> 01:17:32.060
what um that guy's saying about pets uh

01:17:32.060 --> 01:17:34.180
you know but there's there's kind of

01:17:34.180 --> 01:17:35.800
differing philosophies about that and so

01:17:35.800 --> 01:17:37.600
it's possible to turn that system on and

01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:39.940
off uh you know some people think that

01:17:39.940 --> 01:17:41.740
you know a really you know smart

01:17:41.740 --> 01:17:43.720
interesting person is going to have smart

01:17:43.720 --> 01:17:45.460
interesting things to say regardless of

01:17:45.460 --> 01:17:47.940
what subject they're talking about so um

01:17:47.940 --> 01:17:49.380
i don't know it kind of depends some

01:17:49.380 --> 01:17:52.080
people want to filter out uh you know

01:17:52.080 --> 01:17:54.780
or focus in on the content that the

01:17:54.780 --> 01:17:55.960
subjects that interest them and some

01:17:55.960 --> 01:17:57.620
people kind of want to focus in on the

01:17:57.620 --> 01:17:59.280
people that interest them and i i've

01:17:59.280 --> 01:18:00.740
tried to build something that lets you

01:18:00.740 --> 01:18:03.020
do either or oh yeah and and you know

01:18:03.020 --> 01:18:04.920
that's that's really one of the things

01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:06.980
i i've got to say as we're starting to

01:18:06.980 --> 01:18:08.520
run out here i want to point out that

01:18:08.520 --> 01:18:10.180
one of the things i've liked and that

01:18:10.180 --> 01:18:13.800
i've noticed is that i i've i like the

01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:16.040
intellectual nature of what i have found

01:18:16.040 --> 01:18:18.960
on the site even though i don't usually

01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:22.180
like a lot of other you know i usually am

01:18:22.180 --> 01:18:23.840
looking for technical information i'm

01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:26.420
just really hardcore tech guy i just

01:18:26.420 --> 01:18:27.820
don't like getting into the whole

01:18:27.820 --> 01:18:30.220
political end of things however i do

01:18:30.220 --> 01:18:32.500
still find some interesting topics on

01:18:32.500 --> 01:18:33.660
there at least when i do find them

01:18:33.660 --> 01:18:35.220
they're very intellectual and analytical

01:18:35.220 --> 01:18:38.040
in their style and again maybe that's

01:18:38.040 --> 01:18:39.600
because the people that i'm associated

01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:42.340
to are feeling and finding the same

01:18:42.340 --> 01:18:46.460
things and feeling the same way now is

01:18:46.460 --> 01:18:48.840
there i i'm going to make a very wide

01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:50.540
open question here for you as we wrap

01:18:50.540 --> 01:18:52.160
it up because we've got a few minutes

01:18:52.160 --> 01:18:54.460
left four or five minutes left maybe um

01:18:54.460 --> 01:18:56.500
is there anything else uh first of all

01:18:56.500 --> 01:18:58.260
the url

01:18:58.260 --> 01:19:01.460
www.memestreams.net

01:19:01.460 --> 01:19:03.660
okay make sure let me spell meme

01:19:03.660 --> 01:19:04.960
streams because people don't understand

01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:11.000
how to spell it it's m-e-m-e-s-t-r-e-a-m-s

01:19:11.000 --> 01:19:13.940
uh oh i was really amazed when i picked

01:19:13.940 --> 01:19:15.320
the name i thought that more people were

01:19:15.320 --> 01:19:17.080
familiar with memes and knew what memes

01:19:17.080 --> 01:19:19.080
were but it turns out that very few

01:19:19.080 --> 01:19:21.340
people know about memes so you know

01:19:21.340 --> 01:19:22.940
usually when i tell people about this

01:19:22.940 --> 01:19:25.060
site they say meme streams and mem

01:19:25.060 --> 01:19:26.700
streams and they you know they're

01:19:26.700 --> 01:19:28.060
they're just not comfortable with that

01:19:28.060 --> 01:19:28.680
word so

01:19:28.680 --> 01:19:31.660
okay meme streams and it's dot net right

01:19:31.660 --> 01:19:32.000
yep

01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:34.920
um is there anything else on there like

01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:38.000
um i i don't know if this is an insult

01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:40.440
to say this or a sore spot but is is

01:19:40.440 --> 01:19:42.460
there i mean slash dot

01:19:42.460 --> 01:19:44.540
well okay so

01:19:44.540 --> 01:19:46.620
are there some similarities or or not

01:19:46.620 --> 01:19:48.400
there's certainly like at first glance

01:19:48.400 --> 01:19:50.220
or some similarities because what you see

01:19:50.220 --> 01:19:51.680
when you come to the site is a list of

01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:53.540
articles and you get pretty much a list

01:19:53.540 --> 01:19:55.040
of articles when you go to slash dot

01:19:55.040 --> 01:19:57.720
and those articles have threads and you

01:19:57.720 --> 01:19:59.200
know some of that structure is similar

01:19:59.200 --> 01:20:03.740
um the difference is not so much up front

01:20:03.740 --> 01:20:06.740
um the difference is what's going on

01:20:06.740 --> 01:20:10.160
behind the scenes um right the way that

01:20:10.160 --> 01:20:12.240
slash dot works it has this karma system

01:20:12.240 --> 01:20:14.940
and the thing about the karma system is

01:20:14.940 --> 01:20:18.200
that it has and i'll use a 50 cent word

01:20:18.200 --> 01:20:21.940
here a monohierarchical view of what is

01:20:21.940 --> 01:20:25.380
quality content um the guys that run

01:20:25.380 --> 01:20:27.700
slash dot they hold all the karma and

01:20:27.700 --> 01:20:30.320
they give it out to you know their people

01:20:30.320 --> 01:20:32.780
that they think are interesting and those

01:20:32.780 --> 01:20:34.700
people give it out to people that they

01:20:34.700 --> 01:20:36.400
think are interesting and it kind of

01:20:36.400 --> 01:20:41.080
spreads out from one source uh so the

01:20:41.080 --> 01:20:42.860
stuff that you see on slash dot is

01:20:42.860 --> 01:20:44.920
stuff that really relates to the interests

01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:47.680
of the people that run slash dot and if

01:20:47.680 --> 01:20:49.920
your opinions were grossly different

01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:51.520
from that of slash dot and you know

01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:53.280
that that's really unlikely in a site

01:20:53.280 --> 01:20:55.320
that's focused on technology and it uh

01:20:55.320 --> 01:20:56.760
it's more likely to come up in a

01:20:56.760 --> 01:20:59.400
political contact but um if your

01:20:59.400 --> 01:21:01.080
opinions were grossly different you

01:21:01.080 --> 01:21:02.500
know you would have a very hard time

01:21:02.500 --> 01:21:04.200
getting lots of karma points because

01:21:04.200 --> 01:21:06.240
you know people would be uh you know

01:21:06.240 --> 01:21:08.020
people would be unlikely to give them to

01:21:08.020 --> 01:21:09.240
you because you would be sort of

01:21:09.240 --> 01:21:12.260
outside the inner circle um the way

01:21:12.260 --> 01:21:16.160
that mean streams works is it um all

01:21:16.160 --> 01:21:18.580
of the sort of karma i guess in the

01:21:18.580 --> 01:21:21.560
system flows from you it looks at who

01:21:21.560 --> 01:21:23.980
you think is interesting and whose

01:21:23.980 --> 01:21:27.580
opinions you respect and when you use

01:21:27.580 --> 01:21:29.680
the reputation agent you get a list of

01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:32.780
articles that is custom to you so you

01:21:32.780 --> 01:21:34.980
know two people could use the site that

01:21:34.980 --> 01:21:36.980
had very dramatically different interests

01:21:36.980 --> 01:21:38.720
and different opinions about what's

01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:40.620
valuable and they would get very

01:21:40.620 --> 01:21:42.700
dramatically different views of the

01:21:42.700 --> 01:21:44.840
site and the sites you know so instead

01:21:44.840 --> 01:21:46.860
of having a site that circles that

01:21:46.860 --> 01:21:49.460
that circles around commander taco this

01:21:49.460 --> 01:21:51.600
site circles around you and what you

01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:54.820
think is important um very interesting

01:21:54.820 --> 01:21:57.800
the uh there's a really great example

01:21:57.800 --> 01:22:00.460
of this that i wanted to mention on the

01:22:00.460 --> 01:22:02.460
show uh there's this guy that does

01:22:02.460 --> 01:22:05.600
analysis of um of networks of people uh

01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:07.380
who has some a website with some very

01:22:07.380 --> 01:22:11.160
interesting graphs uh and um i'll give

01:22:11.160 --> 01:22:17.020
this url out it's www.org net o r g net

01:22:17.020 --> 01:22:22.800
dot com uh slash divided dot html

01:22:22.800 --> 01:22:26.920
organet.com slash divided dot html this

01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:29.980
guy did an analysis of the amazon.com book

01:22:29.980 --> 01:22:33.160
data uh where you know some people you

01:22:33.160 --> 01:22:34.900
know people who bought this book might

01:22:34.900 --> 01:22:36.700
have also bought these other books and

01:22:36.700 --> 01:22:38.720
what he found out is that there's you

01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:40.460
know pretty much two categories of

01:22:40.460 --> 01:22:42.700
books there's uh in the political

01:22:42.700 --> 01:22:44.260
space there's democratic books and

01:22:44.260 --> 01:22:46.180
republican books and people that read

01:22:46.180 --> 01:22:47.800
republican books don't read democrat

01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:49.360
books and people that read democrat

01:22:49.360 --> 01:22:51.740
books don't read republican books and

01:22:51.740 --> 01:22:54.080
there's almost there's very very few

01:22:54.080 --> 01:22:55.600
books that get read by people on both

01:22:55.600 --> 01:22:58.680
sides so really we have in our country

01:22:58.680 --> 01:23:00.960
two great groups of political think

01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:03.680
thinking that are totally echo chambers

01:23:03.680 --> 01:23:04.860
and they don't really communicate with

01:23:04.860 --> 01:23:07.320
each other uh they don't know what each

01:23:07.320 --> 01:23:10.380
other thinks so uh it's a very

01:23:10.380 --> 01:23:11.840
instructive graph and if you think

01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:13.580
about you know if you read if you're on

01:23:13.580 --> 01:23:16.020
a website that was that had sort of a

01:23:16.020 --> 01:23:18.080
karma based system and you know someone

01:23:18.080 --> 01:23:20.240
on the blue side of this picture a

01:23:20.240 --> 01:23:22.040
democrat was running the system it would

01:23:22.040 --> 01:23:24.240
be very difficult for the republicans to uh

01:23:24.240 --> 01:23:26.480
uh to really get what they wanted out of

01:23:26.480 --> 01:23:28.680
it because uh because you know they

01:23:28.680 --> 01:23:30.940
would have almost totally separate

01:23:30.940 --> 01:23:33.780
interests right absolutely absolutely

01:23:33.780 --> 01:23:35.120
now we're we're gonna have to wrap it

01:23:35.120 --> 01:23:38.620
up here um last minute last 30 seconds

01:23:38.620 --> 01:23:42.960
anything else well i i uh i want to thank

01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:44.420
you very much for uh giving me the

01:23:44.420 --> 01:23:46.060
opportunity to come on your show no no

01:23:46.060 --> 01:23:46.980
you don't have you don't have to do

01:23:46.980 --> 01:23:48.480
that let's let's pimp the site again

01:23:48.480 --> 01:23:52.500
memestreams.net please go register and

01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:55.300
watch what we've explained here of how it

01:23:55.300 --> 01:23:58.560
works and see and notice it in action you

01:23:58.560 --> 01:24:00.800
know that's the best way and then maybe

01:24:00.800 --> 01:24:02.240
come back and re-listen to the show

01:24:02.240 --> 01:24:05.500
afterwards yep so no thank you for

01:24:05.500 --> 01:24:06.800
actually being on the show and let's

01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:08.440
let's jump into shout outs we've got

01:24:08.440 --> 01:24:10.780
just a couple minutes here um i let me

01:24:10.780 --> 01:24:12.980
give a couple quick shout outs myself um

01:24:12.980 --> 01:24:15.540
sub-zero dj mollusk they've been

01:24:15.540 --> 01:24:16.980
helping out with some things that needed

01:24:16.980 --> 01:24:18.460
to be done they took the initiative

01:24:18.460 --> 01:24:21.000
themselves to work on some stuff that

01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:22.960
they knew were projects and stuff that

01:24:22.960 --> 01:24:24.720
i needed to do so they jumped on that

01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:26.340
and started you know helping me out

01:24:26.340 --> 01:24:28.360
with that so i appreciate that um to

01:24:28.360 --> 01:24:30.720
salvea he sent me an email i did not

01:24:30.720 --> 01:24:32.960
read on the show tonight but about some

01:24:32.960 --> 01:24:34.820
problems with my kvm switch i'm going

01:24:34.820 --> 01:24:36.480
to try to follow up on his suggestions

01:24:36.480 --> 01:24:39.200
and see if that works um and to death

01:24:39.200 --> 01:24:40.960
mule who has put up another mirror of

01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:42.680
the show we can always use more mirrors

01:24:42.680 --> 01:24:45.480
so shouts out to him and you anybody

01:24:45.480 --> 01:24:46.880
want to shout out to i know you got a

01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:48.680
big crew there in the southeast the

01:24:48.680 --> 01:24:51.420
dirty dirty well i'll give a shout out

01:24:51.420 --> 01:24:53.960
to uh to acidus and i'll give a shout out

01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:57.700
to rattle uh and glm yeah i i met both

01:24:57.700 --> 01:25:00.080
acidus and rattle both very very nice

01:25:00.080 --> 01:25:02.300
guys i definitely definitely second that

01:25:02.300 --> 01:25:04.600
shout out absolutely and i want to uh

01:25:04.600 --> 01:25:06.740
give a shout out to dolomite and the

01:25:06.740 --> 01:25:10.380
freaknik crew can't wait for that that's

01:25:10.380 --> 01:25:12.060
coming up in uh it's coming up in

01:25:12.060 --> 01:25:14.360
november it's gonna be a lot of fun yeah

01:25:14.360 --> 01:25:16.220
i'm trying my best to get to that if the

01:25:16.220 --> 01:25:20.080
airfare works out so uh i guess that's

01:25:20.080 --> 01:25:22.600
uh i guess that's it all right sounds

01:25:22.600 --> 01:25:25.700
good um and again anybody that wants to

01:25:25.700 --> 01:25:28.100
email us um about anything radio at

01:25:28.100 --> 01:25:30.000
binrev.com is the email address for

01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:32.680
feedback i'm still accepting articles for

01:25:32.680 --> 01:25:35.340
issue 2.2 of binary revolution magazine

01:25:35.340 --> 01:25:36.920
you want to submit those articles to

01:25:36.920 --> 01:25:40.300
this address articles at binrev.com makes

01:25:40.300 --> 01:25:43.800
sense and our closing music tonight is

01:25:43.800 --> 01:25:47.140
from tech nine it's called slacker now

01:25:47.140 --> 01:25:49.720
somebody sent me this somebody sent me

01:25:49.720 --> 01:25:51.320
this link and told me about this guy

01:25:51.320 --> 01:25:54.940
and it's it's awesome i really like this

01:25:54.940 --> 01:25:57.160
guy i don't like a lot of i'm very

01:25:57.160 --> 01:25:58.780
particular in my taste of music and

01:25:58.780 --> 01:26:01.220
especially in in rap and hip-hop or

01:26:01.220 --> 01:26:02.760
whatever you want to call it but this

01:26:02.760 --> 01:26:06.560
guy i really like a lot so um i burnt

01:26:06.560 --> 01:26:08.360
the cd been listening to it all week so

01:26:08.360 --> 01:26:10.220
who i don't remember who sent me the

01:26:10.220 --> 01:26:12.220
link so please email me let me know so

01:26:12.220 --> 01:26:14.300
i can thank you on the air um been

01:26:14.300 --> 01:26:16.060
listening to tech nine his whole album

01:26:16.060 --> 01:26:19.520
um he's put online for download you

01:26:19.520 --> 01:26:21.260
can download burn the whole album for

01:26:21.260 --> 01:26:24.280
free um again hoping maybe that you'll

01:26:24.280 --> 01:26:25.700
buy the other albums he has available

01:26:25.700 --> 01:26:28.020
but he put the one out for free very

01:26:28.020 --> 01:26:30.100
cool of him to try something new try a

01:26:30.100 --> 01:26:31.460
new distribution method trying to get

01:26:31.460 --> 01:26:32.700
attention like that i think that's a

01:26:32.700 --> 01:26:34.100
very cool thing to do and it's a damn

01:26:34.100 --> 01:26:37.720
good album so that's going to do it

01:26:37.720 --> 01:26:39.440
now desius thank you so much for being

01:26:39.440 --> 01:26:42.140
on the show i wish i'd be here yeah i

01:26:42.140 --> 01:26:43.940
wish i'd set aside more time there at

01:26:43.940 --> 01:26:46.440
the end i learned i i've heard so many

01:26:46.440 --> 01:26:48.880
you know i hear the buzzword itself but

01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:50.160
i've never had someone sit down and

01:26:50.160 --> 01:26:52.440
explain it to me so thank you for doing

01:26:52.440 --> 01:26:54.100
that and i hope i i hope the listeners

01:26:54.100 --> 01:26:57.600
got as much out of it as i did so and

01:26:57.600 --> 01:26:58.860
you know what we'll have to have you back

01:26:58.860 --> 01:27:00.540
on again to maybe pick up on something

01:27:00.540 --> 01:27:02.120
we missed or or talk about some of the

01:27:02.120 --> 01:27:04.040
other stuff you got going on hey i'm

01:27:04.040 --> 01:27:06.020
more than happy to do that uh you know

01:27:06.020 --> 01:27:08.460
we just kind of uh just kind of uh you

01:27:08.460 --> 01:27:09.860
know scratch the surface here there's a

01:27:09.860 --> 01:27:11.320
whole lot of stuff to talk about so

01:27:11.320 --> 01:27:14.000
absolutely absolutely i'll gladly have

01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:15.980
you back we'll work something out but

01:27:15.980 --> 01:27:19.120
until then we end the show the same way

01:27:19.120 --> 01:27:22.100
every time it may be cliche and

01:27:22.100 --> 01:27:24.000
repetitive but i still like it and we

01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:25.440
still end the show by saying that we

01:27:25.440 --> 01:27:28.060
will see everyone next week same hack

01:27:28.060 --> 01:27:30.140
time same hack channel

01:27:30.140 --> 01:27:36.080
slacker a person who shirts his work or

01:27:36.080 --> 01:27:39.360
duty a person who evades military

01:27:39.360 --> 01:27:41.080
service in wartime

01:27:41.080 --> 01:27:45.920
i know one thing man i'm gonna have my

01:27:45.920 --> 01:27:48.040
kicks before the whole shit house goes

01:27:48.040 --> 01:27:50.600
up in flame you know what i'm saying

01:27:50.600 --> 01:27:56.380
eat drink and be merry tomorrow you may

01:27:56.380 --> 01:27:59.080
die that's what life's about man

01:27:59.080 --> 01:28:05.020
i'm a product of reaganomics neurotic they

01:28:05.020 --> 01:28:06.940
saying i'm it just got up inhaling chronic

01:28:06.940 --> 01:28:08.720
the artist i'm staying honest i'm about to

01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:11.300
make it famous so you can take the j-o-b and

01:28:11.300 --> 01:28:13.540
you can shove it up your anus i ain't

01:28:13.540 --> 01:28:15.940
never understood how the world works but

01:28:15.940 --> 01:28:18.120
i always understood why the girls twerk

01:28:18.120 --> 01:28:20.320
for a baller not a nine to five barely

01:28:20.320 --> 01:28:22.720
making it with disgust behind your eyes

01:28:22.720 --> 01:28:25.540
so i just grip my piece rip off fleece

01:28:25.540 --> 01:28:27.680
i have to take your lip off chief with my

01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:30.120
peeps we roofless if you got money induced

01:28:30.120 --> 01:28:32.120
the goofs get toothless we loose off two

01:28:32.120 --> 01:28:33.620
fifths we useless

01:28:33.620 --> 01:28:35.540
i wanna kick it but ain't got the dough

01:28:35.540 --> 01:28:43.480
drink in the concert trip and make them stop the show we gots to go push me and i sock the pole getting the bell from my parents is impossible

01:28:43.480 --> 01:28:47.920
i'm a slacker i'm a slacker never did i have a lot of dough i'm a slacker

01:28:47.920 --> 01:28:57.860
go whichever way the wind blows though just tuning in i'm just letting you know i'm a slacker every time i take a look around i'm a slacker i'm a slacker

01:28:57.860 --> 01:29:10.300
i just fool around i don't do enough i just fool around y'all can go to hell how does that sound now you can tell by my everyday fits i ain't rich i sneak with a piece when i grit i'm just another gap man caught up in the mix

01:29:10.300 --> 01:29:15.740
trying to take your dollar and your fifteen cents i grind with a pistol i stay rid of you lanes

01:29:15.740 --> 01:29:19.300
y'all game i play video games all day

01:29:19.300 --> 01:29:23.400
we can't city mo brains it's gritty slow game we diddy bop with really no change

01:29:23.400 --> 01:29:26.400
y'all game and people holler how you do that there

01:29:26.400 --> 01:29:29.060
why your pants hangin new and why you grew that hair

01:29:29.060 --> 01:29:31.660
light in a bleasel with my people riding a rego

01:29:31.660 --> 01:29:34.000
always in trouble with coppers cause we driving illegal

01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:36.600
and i ain't never giving them leeway

01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:41.900
to him he named the judicial assembly's gay hey i come out at night cause i sleep all day

01:29:41.900 --> 01:29:44.160
tryna give a damn jam louder mca

01:29:44.160 --> 01:29:45.300
i'm a slacker

01:29:45.300 --> 01:29:47.060
never did i have a lot of dough

01:29:47.060 --> 01:29:47.900
i'm a slacker

01:29:47.900 --> 01:29:49.600
smoking pot and watching videos

01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:50.460
i'm a slacker

01:29:50.460 --> 01:29:52.300
go whichever way the wind blows

01:29:52.300 --> 01:29:54.600
though just tuning in i'm just letting you know

01:29:54.600 --> 01:29:55.500
i'm a slacker

01:29:55.500 --> 01:29:57.300
every time i take a look around

01:29:57.300 --> 01:29:58.100
i'm a slacker

01:29:58.100 --> 01:29:59.300
i'm a slacker

01:29:59.300 --> 01:30:04.600
i don't do enough i just fool around y'all can go to hell how does that sound

01:30:04.600 --> 01:30:07.300
get to the party and my homies got to pay for me

01:30:07.300 --> 01:30:09.900
holidays them just be another day for me

01:30:09.900 --> 01:30:12.300
getting drunk hoping i get to the krilla safely

01:30:12.300 --> 01:30:14.900
pray for me cause i'm needing money majorly

01:30:14.900 --> 01:30:16.900
sit at home watching mtv

01:30:16.900 --> 01:30:20.700
with a m t p o c k e t i m p 3

01:30:20.700 --> 01:30:22.600
everything that i hear on the street

01:30:22.600 --> 01:30:25.200
never buy don't deny it i'm the fear i'm a beast

01:30:25.200 --> 01:30:26.300
you say get a job

01:30:26.300 --> 01:30:27.600
i say hit a knob

01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:30.100
cause the way you run the world is every bit of fraud

01:30:30.100 --> 01:30:31.460
so what you ask of me

01:30:31.460 --> 01:30:32.760
you get no tax from me

01:30:32.760 --> 01:30:35.460
i got whites native and mexican and blacks with me

01:30:35.460 --> 01:30:35.960
huh

01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:37.960
i'm tryna get up there with master b

01:30:37.960 --> 01:30:38.960
pass the d

01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:40.460
cause that's the way it has to be

01:30:40.460 --> 01:30:41.960
we bust to be free

01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:43.160
we trust to be g

01:30:43.160 --> 01:30:44.460
so fuck who be glee

01:30:44.460 --> 01:30:45.760
it sucks to be me

01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:46.660
i'm a slacker

01:30:46.660 --> 01:30:48.260
never did i have a lot of dough

01:30:48.260 --> 01:30:49.160
i'm a slacker

01:30:49.160 --> 01:30:50.760
smoking pot and watching videos

01:30:50.760 --> 01:30:51.760
i'm a slacker

01:30:51.760 --> 01:30:53.460
go whichever way the wind blows

01:30:53.460 --> 01:30:55.860
though just tuning in i'm just letting you know

01:30:55.860 --> 01:30:56.860
i'm a slacker

01:30:56.860 --> 01:30:58.860
every time i take a look around

01:30:58.860 --> 01:30:59.860
i'm a slacker

01:30:59.860 --> 01:31:01.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:01.860 --> 01:31:02.860
i just fool around

01:31:02.860 --> 01:31:04.860
y'all can go to hell

01:31:04.860 --> 01:31:05.860
how does that sound

01:31:05.860 --> 01:31:06.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:06.860 --> 01:31:08.860
never did i have a lot of dough

01:31:08.860 --> 01:31:09.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:09.860 --> 01:31:10.860
smoking pot and watching videos

01:31:10.860 --> 01:31:11.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:11.860 --> 01:31:13.860
go whichever way the wind blows

01:31:13.860 --> 01:31:15.860
though just tuning in i'm just letting you know

01:31:15.860 --> 01:31:16.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:16.860 --> 01:31:17.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:17.860 --> 01:31:18.860
every time i take a look around

01:31:18.860 --> 01:31:19.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:19.860 --> 01:31:21.460
stuck up on my face

01:31:21.460 --> 01:31:21.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:21.860 --> 01:31:22.860
oh no what i'm doing

01:31:22.860 --> 01:31:23.860
i just fool around

01:31:23.860 --> 01:31:25.540
y'all can go to hell

01:31:25.540 --> 01:31:26.860
how does that sound

01:31:26.860 --> 01:31:27.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:27.860 --> 01:31:28.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:28.860 --> 01:31:30.860
yeah

01:31:30.860 --> 01:31:32.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:32.860 --> 01:31:33.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:33.860 --> 01:31:36.860
yeah

01:31:36.860 --> 01:31:37.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:37.860 --> 01:31:38.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:38.860 --> 01:31:41.860
yeah

01:31:41.860 --> 01:31:43.860
i'm a slacker

01:31:43.860 --> 01:31:44.460
yeah

01:31:44.460 --> 01:31:47.320
Choo, choo, choo, choo, choo.