WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.780 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:10.220 --> 00:15.880 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.880 --> 00:16.840 in a fag pose. 00:17.080 --> 00:22.040 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six foe. 00:22.240 --> 00:26.800 I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable. 00:26.800 --> 00:32.820 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a Nero. 00:33.020 --> 00:35.520 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream caps. 00:35.840 --> 00:38.720 You need some ISO? Let me do my hard drive rifle. 00:39.040 --> 00:40.720 Our exchange you could never stifle. 00:40.980 --> 00:43.880 In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. 00:44.160 --> 00:47.900 I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z. 00:48.240 --> 00:52.460 Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. 00:52.460 --> 00:56.640 You feel that rattle in your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones. 00:56.800 --> 01:01.080 And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:01.320 --> 01:03.920 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:04.320 --> 01:06.880 This is dedicated to the hackers and the critics. 01:07.420 --> 01:12.000 Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIPs, SISs. 01:12.240 --> 01:14.560 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack. 01:14.560 --> 01:19.740 Hello, everyone, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio. 01:20.220 --> 01:29.040 I am StankDawg, and you are listening to episode 68, coming to you on October 26, 2004. 01:30.000 --> 01:38.640 Now, let me just warn you up front and apologize that if my voice sounds funny or I sound like I'm a little under the weather, it's because I am. 01:38.640 --> 01:42.060 So, I'm gonna try my best not to cough into the microphone or anything. 01:43.240 --> 01:49.380 And the reason that I'm sick actually ties into the main topic of the show today, and that is our Freaknik wrap-up. 01:49.880 --> 01:55.460 Now, my co-host today to help me out on the Freaknik wrap-up, of course, was someone who was at Freaknik. 01:56.000 --> 01:58.420 And that is none other than Acidus himself. 01:58.420 --> 02:01.160 Oh, Stank, I'm so glad to be here, thanks. 02:01.380 --> 02:06.020 Yeah, I'm trying my best not to cough up a lung on the air. 02:06.740 --> 02:08.700 I don't know if that'd be good radio or bad radio, though. 02:09.280 --> 02:14.220 Every time I've left Freaknik, I've always had, you know, some nasty throat thing. 02:16.060 --> 02:18.580 I'm holding back such a bad joke right now. 02:18.920 --> 02:19.480 Hey, hey, hey. 02:19.480 --> 02:22.360 Because I'm cutting back on the foul language on the show. 02:22.360 --> 02:29.060 I assure you, it's only the drinking and all the smoke in the air and the staying up late. 02:29.400 --> 02:30.300 Not what you're thinking. 02:30.400 --> 02:33.540 There was a lot of that at this conference, I will say. 02:33.620 --> 02:35.420 But we'll go into more of that later, of course. 02:36.400 --> 02:39.020 In the meantime, let's take care of a little bit of housekeeping. 02:41.680 --> 02:47.120 First of all, I want to remind people, I mentioned this before, but now it's upcoming next week. 02:47.480 --> 02:51.760 Next week's episode is going to be preempted, as it were. 02:52.360 --> 03:00.040 There will not be a show on Rant Radio next week because of the elections are on that Tuesday, November the 2nd. 03:00.220 --> 03:03.060 So, A, get your ass out there and vote. 03:03.900 --> 03:07.600 No matter which side you vote for and whatever, just do it. 03:07.720 --> 03:12.880 If you're old enough and you have the right to vote, you're eligible to vote, you have no reason not to. 03:13.220 --> 03:13.680 If you don't... 03:13.680 --> 03:19.440 You shouldn't complain about things like the Induce Act and stuff like that if you don't actively vote to change it. 03:19.440 --> 03:20.140 If you don't... 03:20.140 --> 03:22.480 Don't bitch and complain if you didn't try to make a difference. 03:23.080 --> 03:25.120 And don't give me that my vote doesn't count bullshit. 03:25.820 --> 03:27.540 When 2 million people say that, guess what? 03:27.560 --> 03:27.940 They counted. 03:27.940 --> 03:29.020 Exactly. 03:29.820 --> 03:31.700 Anyway, I'm not going to that rant. 03:31.760 --> 03:34.780 This is just a reminder that we're not going to be on next week. 03:35.720 --> 03:37.620 So, yes, we will not have a show next week. 03:38.400 --> 03:46.020 I have not decided, quite honestly, if we're going to record a show and just put it up for MP3 or not. 03:46.540 --> 03:48.780 Because I do kind of have a streak going. 03:49.040 --> 03:51.660 As silly as it sounds, I haven't missed an episode in like a year and a... 03:51.660 --> 03:52.940 Well, in 68 episodes. 03:53.460 --> 03:54.340 Haven't missed a week. 03:54.480 --> 03:57.020 So, I don't know if I'm going to take... 03:57.020 --> 03:58.120 I kind of need a vacation. 03:58.260 --> 03:58.680 You know what? 03:58.900 --> 04:02.260 I'm sick right now and I got a lot of things going on. 04:02.260 --> 04:06.340 And we might just take a week off and come back with the next episode in two weeks. 04:06.640 --> 04:08.320 Maybe you should just do like a live show. 04:09.260 --> 04:10.400 Ooh, make episode 69. 04:10.400 --> 04:11.680 Live streaming show. 04:12.060 --> 04:12.860 Anything goes. 04:12.980 --> 04:14.460 Just random talking. 04:14.720 --> 04:17.660 Oh, that could be just... 04:17.660 --> 04:19.220 Oh, that could be devastating. 04:19.220 --> 04:21.280 That could be very dangerous. 04:22.440 --> 04:26.400 All we need is Tron to jump on and duck drop everybody. 04:26.600 --> 04:27.160 No, I don't... 04:27.160 --> 04:28.360 That's a little too dangerous. 04:29.000 --> 04:29.300 Yeah. 04:29.560 --> 04:29.880 We'll see. 04:29.960 --> 04:30.820 I'll think about it. 04:30.820 --> 04:31.360 That's an option. 04:32.980 --> 04:34.800 Also, I have kind of some sad news. 04:36.040 --> 04:40.300 Hackenslash, one of our favorite members of DDP, our young gun as we call him a lot, 04:40.940 --> 04:42.340 is going to have to unplug. 04:42.520 --> 04:44.200 He's got some personal things to take care of. 04:44.240 --> 04:46.280 So, he's going to back out of the scene for a while. 04:46.900 --> 04:49.360 And it's very, very much a good thing. 04:49.440 --> 04:51.780 It's very good for him that he's got to sort some things out. 04:51.960 --> 04:54.220 So, hate to lose him. 04:54.280 --> 04:55.520 I hate to announce something like that. 04:55.560 --> 04:56.140 But you know what? 04:56.240 --> 04:57.220 He knows that we're here. 04:57.320 --> 04:59.980 And he knows that if he needs anything, we're here for him. 04:59.980 --> 05:04.320 So, take care of what you've got to take care of and let us know how everything goes. 05:04.320 --> 05:09.220 Now, let's jump off of that depressing note and let's go into some emails. 05:09.420 --> 05:11.740 And I actually have a correction on one of my emails from last week. 05:11.740 --> 05:14.960 I had an email from Delusion last week. 05:15.040 --> 05:17.440 And it was about MP3 and Ogvorbis. 05:17.440 --> 05:19.440 I think the title was Ogvorbis is Evil. 05:20.260 --> 05:21.920 And I accidentally gave the URL. 05:22.260 --> 05:23.260 I thought it was his name. 05:23.360 --> 05:24.780 I thought it was delusion.com. 05:24.780 --> 05:29.020 And I knew it after I mixed the MP3 and uploaded it. 05:29.100 --> 05:30.200 I knew that I'd made the mistake. 05:30.280 --> 05:31.500 So, I caught myself immediately. 05:31.820 --> 05:35.680 The URL is actually unhelpful.org. 05:37.320 --> 05:38.740 So, that was my mistake. 05:39.000 --> 05:40.940 I think I just assumed it was his name. 05:41.020 --> 05:41.900 I didn't look clearly. 05:42.040 --> 05:43.340 So, it was pure laziness on my part. 05:43.480 --> 05:47.960 So, if you want to read that full rant in its entirety from Delusion, 05:48.060 --> 05:50.600 it's on unhelpful.org. 05:50.600 --> 05:52.620 Which, ironically, I was very unhelpful. 05:54.220 --> 05:58.520 And he also emailed me clarifying. 05:58.520 --> 06:07.880 And he says that the main point isn't the quality or MP3 already works issue. 06:08.320 --> 06:12.880 It's really the idea of getting non-technical users used to switching formats, 06:12.980 --> 06:16.440 which will allow the industry to foist an SDMI-related format 06:16.440 --> 06:20.540 where the DRM is only enabled a year after the format reaches critical mass 06:20.540 --> 06:24.420 on mass amounts of users. 06:25.440 --> 06:28.860 Now, you really need to listen to last week's episode 06:28.860 --> 06:30.640 to have got the beginning of that. 06:31.540 --> 06:38.340 But, see, I do, I mean, I think he had a lot of points going on in there. 06:38.440 --> 06:43.220 And I'm not sure that any of them were fleshed out or thought out completely. 06:44.120 --> 06:46.700 I do like the fact that he's thinking about these things. 06:46.840 --> 06:51.320 And there is somewhat of a point there, but I just don't know how realistic or reasonable it is. 06:51.320 --> 06:56.960 First of all, SDMI, you mentioned SDMI, which is the Secure Digital Music Initiative. 06:57.800 --> 07:03.240 And you can, I think it's SDMI.org, if I'm not mistaken, that you can read about that. 07:03.240 --> 07:08.260 I mean, it's kind of gone underground since they had their nice little legal battle 07:08.260 --> 07:09.880 with Dr. Felton at Princeton. 07:11.100 --> 07:13.620 And that was, of course, remind the listeners. 07:14.340 --> 07:20.400 Oh, so, basically, SDMI, they created a new type of digital rights management, 07:20.400 --> 07:23.360 and they were having a contest to see if people could break it. 07:23.720 --> 07:29.240 Well, Dr. Ed Felton at Princeton, with I believe some of his grad students, 07:29.400 --> 07:33.640 went ahead and actually figured out how to crack the DRM. 07:33.800 --> 07:35.620 And we're going to be presenting a paper. 07:35.740 --> 07:39.480 Now, this isn't like, you know, me, for example, presenting a paper at a hacker con 07:39.480 --> 07:41.920 about, say, a transaction system that sucks. 07:41.920 --> 07:47.680 So this was, and getting sued, this was a paper prepared by a Ph.D. professor 07:47.680 --> 07:53.420 with Ph.D. grad students at a internationally recognized academic conference. 07:54.060 --> 07:58.480 And he got sued by, I believe it was the MPAA, or perhaps RIAA. 07:58.820 --> 07:59.540 I really don't remember. 07:59.660 --> 08:00.360 I think it's RIAA. 08:00.400 --> 08:01.140 I think it's Ria. 08:01.600 --> 08:04.680 And was told, you cannot make this presentation. 08:05.860 --> 08:07.920 The court case ended kind of interestingly, 08:08.480 --> 08:12.180 almost with the judge kind of throwing it out on an interesting technicality. 08:12.880 --> 08:15.260 But no precedents were really set. 08:15.260 --> 08:18.400 And I really honestly haven't heard much of SDMI since. 08:18.720 --> 08:24.900 And wasn't the slap in the face to that also that they actually challenged people to crack it? 08:25.240 --> 08:26.740 They challenged people to crack it. 08:26.780 --> 08:29.240 They released it and said, and then they sued them. 08:29.620 --> 08:30.720 Then they sued him. 08:31.980 --> 08:35.300 So it was not a good affair. 08:36.100 --> 08:39.260 And then people wonder why hackers try to keep the information underground 08:39.900 --> 08:42.160 and try to release it under pseudonyms or anonymously. 08:42.660 --> 08:43.940 Gee, you wonder why? 08:43.940 --> 08:48.340 I'm resisting bad words right now like you can't believe. 08:48.860 --> 08:51.820 Well, I have to point out, there was something on Slashdot earlier this week. 08:52.640 --> 08:57.440 There's a book called Hackers and Painters, or Painters and Hackers, something along those lines. 08:57.720 --> 08:59.200 If you search for that in Google, you'll find it. 08:59.620 --> 09:04.240 And the author is releasing kind of a chapter every couple of months for free online, 09:04.420 --> 09:05.940 and the book is available as well. 09:05.940 --> 09:12.820 And it's kind of a collection of essays just about the way hackers think, the creative process. 09:13.340 --> 09:15.540 And it's fascinating. 09:15.740 --> 09:21.540 And there was one of the chapters he just released was talking about why are hackers opposed to DRM. 09:21.540 --> 09:26.860 And he was very much talking about, you know, hackers trying to figure stuff out so they can make better stuff. 09:27.060 --> 09:29.060 And it was just an excellent article. 09:29.260 --> 09:31.040 And so I will point the listeners out to that. 09:31.600 --> 09:32.640 Yeah, and I think... 09:32.640 --> 09:35.020 We can find a URL. 09:35.020 --> 09:38.420 Yeah, we've mentioned that on the show in the past. 09:38.500 --> 09:43.180 I think it was X-Logic from Mountain Phoenix who had mentioned that he had read the book, 09:43.260 --> 09:45.960 and he also said that it was just a phenomenal book. 09:46.360 --> 09:47.400 I think it was X-Logic. 09:47.440 --> 09:48.280 I wouldn't swear up to it. 09:48.500 --> 09:51.800 But, yeah, I mean, I've heard a lot of good things about it. 09:52.380 --> 09:54.020 I have to put that on my reading list. 09:55.500 --> 09:58.660 But, anyway, back to this particular rant and this topic. 09:59.060 --> 10:01.840 Let me go back and read this again just to make sure it's... 10:01.840 --> 10:04.440 The main point is, isn't the legal... 10:04.440 --> 10:04.820 Excuse me. 10:04.880 --> 10:07.580 Isn't the quality or an MP3 already works issue. 10:08.040 --> 10:12.320 It's really the idea of getting non-technical users used to switching formats, 10:12.400 --> 10:15.800 which will allow the industry to voice an SDMI-related format, 10:16.340 --> 10:22.220 where the DRM is only enabled a year after the format reaches critical mass on mass amounts of users. 10:23.180 --> 10:23.620 Ouch. 10:23.880 --> 10:25.300 Now, I'm not really sure. 10:26.200 --> 10:28.500 I mean, first of all, we're jumping ahead a lot here, aren't we? 10:28.500 --> 10:31.500 We're making a lot of assumptions on what... 10:31.500 --> 10:31.960 Yeah, yeah. 10:31.960 --> 10:34.260 One, we're assuming that users will switch formats. 10:34.400 --> 10:37.620 Two, we're assuming the RRA controls that format. 10:37.900 --> 10:42.860 And three, that they'd actually be able to push out a DRM solution and, you know, 10:42.880 --> 10:46.860 kind of trigger it and that everyone would continue using it and not just jump ship. 10:47.180 --> 10:47.420 All right. 10:47.480 --> 10:52.680 Now, the DRM would have to be built into it from the ground up for them to retroactively, 10:52.840 --> 10:55.020 a year after it's released, kick in. 10:55.020 --> 10:55.640 And you know what? 10:55.960 --> 10:59.420 Most users aren't going to accept that. 10:59.800 --> 11:02.100 They're just not going to switch to something like that. 11:02.520 --> 11:04.680 And that's kind of something I mentioned in the first part. 11:04.800 --> 11:09.940 The first thing I thought about this comment was MP3s aren't going anywhere. 11:10.060 --> 11:10.980 Well, no, I agree with that. 11:11.040 --> 11:11.640 They're really not. 11:12.020 --> 11:14.360 The foothold is too strong right now. 11:14.360 --> 11:19.420 And that's the reason Og Vorbis is not able to take off because it's hard to change people's minds, 11:19.740 --> 11:22.100 especially non-technical people, which he pointed out. 11:22.100 --> 11:32.280 But I would prefer them, if there is an option, to switch to Og Vorbis as opposed to some industry standard 11:32.280 --> 11:36.800 with the DRM and stuff built into it that they would control. 11:36.900 --> 11:39.500 I would rather Og Vorbis be the option that they switch to. 11:40.160 --> 11:43.880 So there's not necessarily something wrong with Og Vorbis or it being evil. 11:43.880 --> 11:49.360 Now, he also mentioned in his email that he was taking some dramatic liberties by saying Og Vorbis is evil. 11:49.440 --> 11:50.880 That was just an attention-grabbing thing. 11:50.880 --> 11:55.680 But any time you have options, it's a good thing. 11:56.320 --> 11:57.700 Yes, I would completely agree. 11:57.820 --> 12:02.380 Yeah, I mean, there's no – you can't have freedom of choice without first having choices. 12:02.900 --> 12:03.340 Exactly. 12:03.500 --> 12:04.700 It's actually very interesting. 12:05.300 --> 12:12.980 Og Vorbis really hasn't been – hasn't really permeated the end-user and consumer audio market, 12:12.980 --> 12:15.080 but it is huge in the developer world. 12:15.560 --> 12:18.300 I mean, so I make games for the Sony PlayStation, right? 12:18.300 --> 12:23.320 I don't want to have to pay some German company or royalty fee so I can compress my audio. 12:23.720 --> 12:30.080 I believe Rockstar Games, all the audio on there is compressed as Og Vorbis because it's free 12:30.080 --> 12:31.260 and they don't have to worry about it. 12:31.660 --> 12:34.740 And anything – especially with how expensive games are getting today. 12:34.980 --> 12:35.240 Right. 12:35.240 --> 12:41.400 This is a side tangent, but actually video games are more profitable, the dollars that you go into them 12:41.400 --> 12:43.200 and how much return money you get out of that. 12:43.420 --> 12:47.960 That's why you see a lot of companies and, indeed, lots of actors kind of lending themselves to video games 12:47.960 --> 12:49.620 because they make more money than movies. 12:50.680 --> 12:51.080 Man. 12:51.240 --> 12:51.920 How much you put in. 12:51.920 --> 12:56.780 And so anything they can do to even reduce that cost and maximize their profit – 12:56.780 --> 12:59.580 because these video game companies, it's more of the exception. 12:59.720 --> 13:03.400 Normally they'll have one or two games and that's about it that really take off. 13:03.880 --> 13:06.820 So Vorbis is huge in the developer world. 13:07.200 --> 13:07.380 Right. 13:07.380 --> 13:12.500 Well, then, to continue that rant, you take somebody like EA Sports, Electronic Arts. 13:12.860 --> 13:13.100 Yeah. 13:13.640 --> 13:19.040 That capitalize on all the sports franchises and every single year release a new version. 13:19.580 --> 13:19.760 Yeah. 13:19.860 --> 13:22.980 Football 2002, Football 2003, Football 2004. 13:23.460 --> 13:25.020 Oh, they're making money hand over fist. 13:25.420 --> 13:25.680 Yeah. 13:26.340 --> 13:31.460 So, yeah, every – and actually, I didn't think of that as an actually – that's a great comment 13:31.460 --> 13:32.980 I didn't think about from the developer angle. 13:33.360 --> 13:35.600 I was thinking completely from the consumer standpoint. 13:35.600 --> 13:37.540 That's actually a very good thing to mention. 13:37.680 --> 13:42.780 It's not just about whether users, non-technical or otherwise, are going to adopt it. 13:43.140 --> 13:44.780 There's other uses for this as well. 13:45.240 --> 13:45.420 Mm-hmm. 13:45.840 --> 13:49.880 And the neat thing about – at least in the developer world – is you don't have to force 13:49.880 --> 13:55.340 the consumer to choose because you're basically – you know, the game has not only the data, 13:55.560 --> 14:00.260 you know, the graphics, the textures, and the music, but it also has the stuff that decodes it 14:00.260 --> 14:02.180 and, you know, the graphics engines and things like that. 14:02.180 --> 14:06.960 So, it's completely transparent to the user whether it's in MP3 or AUG or whatever. 14:08.000 --> 14:08.440 Yeah. 14:08.640 --> 14:15.200 And even so, let's – even if we stick with this and say that it's about consumers, I 14:15.200 --> 14:17.420 still have faith in consumers, believe it or not. 14:17.980 --> 14:19.200 Sometimes I question it. 14:19.240 --> 14:20.000 Sometimes it wavers. 14:20.080 --> 14:20.720 I'll admit that. 14:20.720 --> 14:30.480 But NMOS, as a whole, I don't think that users are going to blindly switch to other formats. 14:31.060 --> 14:31.140 Yeah. 14:31.540 --> 14:37.000 You know, so worrying about them switching to some SDMI-related thing and then being trapped 14:37.000 --> 14:40.600 in DRM later, subsequently, I don't think they're going to do that. 14:40.700 --> 14:45.560 I have confidence that enough consumers are educated that they will not fall into that 14:45.560 --> 14:45.980 kind of trap. 14:46.040 --> 14:46.780 They will see it coming. 14:46.780 --> 14:52.900 They will see the DRM built into this stuff, and that's why I hate Sony as a company. 14:53.000 --> 14:56.760 I can't stand Sony because they try to make all this proprietary stuff. 14:57.060 --> 14:59.820 I mean, what the hell – oh, does that count as a cuss word? 15:00.100 --> 15:01.460 Oh, I can't take that one back. 15:01.780 --> 15:05.560 What in the heck are they thinking with this mini-disc? 15:06.520 --> 15:10.100 Hey, why don't you just support CD-Rs like everybody else? 15:10.180 --> 15:13.440 No, you want to use your own proprietary little thing. 15:13.440 --> 15:18.600 I'm trying so hard not – anyway. 15:19.360 --> 15:21.320 Another example of that is their memory stick. 15:21.820 --> 15:24.660 They were used to adopt standards. 15:24.840 --> 15:27.080 I mean, granted, you can still buy like 7-in-1 readers. 15:27.220 --> 15:31.420 I mean, there's still an insane amount of little digital medium storage. 15:31.940 --> 15:35.200 But smart cards and compact flash are pretty much what everyone uses. 15:35.780 --> 15:40.740 Sony has been completely unsuccessful in licensing the memory stick to anyone else. 15:40.740 --> 15:43.000 Nobody other than Sony product can use it. 15:43.360 --> 15:44.440 It's crap. 15:44.720 --> 15:45.800 They're ridiculous. 15:46.140 --> 15:47.980 The company does that all the time. 15:48.640 --> 15:50.480 You know, we don't really know. 15:50.640 --> 15:51.600 I mean, there are other markets. 15:52.080 --> 15:58.840 In Japan, it may have a much greater – it may be adopted to have a much higher adoption rate. 15:59.060 --> 16:02.300 I mean, it could be like 75% adoption rate over there. 16:02.560 --> 16:04.120 At least that's with the mini-disc. 16:04.120 --> 16:11.460 The RIAA, speaking of them, they really kind of set back the ability for burners to be freely available. 16:11.640 --> 16:12.860 They pushed back that technology. 16:13.380 --> 16:19.120 And so in Japan, actually, mini-discs were out, you know, really even before CDs became very prevalent. 16:19.560 --> 16:24.900 And so it was like mini-discs versus tape, and people could buy songs from vending machines onto mini-discs. 16:25.120 --> 16:28.520 And so mini-discs became huge in Japan, not so much here. 16:28.520 --> 16:35.540 I think maybe that's a reason why they kind of stick with these, because in their home markets, you know, they pretty much dominate it. 16:36.020 --> 16:40.620 Yeah, and see, Japan always adopts things earlier than we do, technology-wise. 16:40.720 --> 16:40.900 Yes. 16:41.080 --> 16:43.620 They always sell phones and et cetera, et cetera. 16:44.100 --> 16:47.620 But, you know, the other thing – and I've had my Sony rant in the past. 16:47.700 --> 16:56.000 But the other thing is they're complete, utter hypocrites when you have Sony Records, Sony Entertainment, but Sony also produces DVD burners. 16:56.000 --> 16:58.700 And to me, that's just such hypocrisy to even do that. 17:01.900 --> 17:02.300 Anyway. 17:02.800 --> 17:04.080 Another rant for another time. 17:04.180 --> 17:04.580 Exactly. 17:04.760 --> 17:06.180 Well, actually, it's not for another time. 17:06.240 --> 17:06.820 It's been done. 17:06.900 --> 17:09.120 I just like bringing it up because I hate Sony. 17:09.860 --> 17:11.800 But, you know, here's another great example. 17:11.860 --> 17:13.100 This is the first example I thought of. 17:13.620 --> 17:22.520 And I don't know if a lot of the listeners may not remember, but when DVDs or before DVDs first came out or when they first came out, there was another standard that came out called DivX. 17:22.520 --> 17:29.920 And, no, not the video encoding program that everybody uses to compress their movies down to AVI, et cetera, et cetera. 17:30.280 --> 17:33.140 No, DivX was a disk format. 17:33.900 --> 17:38.800 And it was a pay-per-view type format where you could – the DVD players would support this format. 17:39.760 --> 17:44.780 And I never tried it or used it myself because it was ridiculous and I refused to do it. 17:45.240 --> 17:45.380 Yeah. 17:45.380 --> 17:46.040 But you could go to the store – 17:46.040 --> 17:47.100 Everyone refused to do it. 17:47.520 --> 17:47.940 What's that? 17:48.520 --> 17:53.580 Everyone refused to do it, which is why everyone, when you say DivX, they think of the Kodak and not the original DivX. 17:53.660 --> 17:53.860 Yeah. 17:53.960 --> 17:59.820 I mean, it's basically like four or five bucks you would buy the disk and you take it home and you get to view it once. 18:00.600 --> 18:02.100 And then somehow it locked itself out. 18:02.160 --> 18:03.000 And I don't remember. 18:03.100 --> 18:05.400 I knew the technology at the time, but it's been years ago. 18:05.900 --> 18:10.260 The players had a modem and they would dial out to a server. 18:10.480 --> 18:11.220 Is that all it was? 18:11.220 --> 18:19.880 In fact, no DivX disks work at all anymore because they had to take the servers down because the whole thing folded like in 2001 or something. 18:20.700 --> 18:20.800 Yeah. 18:20.920 --> 18:22.340 And that's a prime example. 18:22.440 --> 18:23.240 And that's why I bring this up. 18:23.300 --> 18:33.440 That is an exact example of worrying that users, non-technical ones specifically, are going to adopt a standard that would then shoot them in the foot because of the DRM or something like that. 18:33.600 --> 18:33.820 Exactly. 18:33.820 --> 18:38.260 Well, that's a perfect example that non-technical users did not accept it. 18:38.680 --> 18:38.940 Yeah. 18:39.140 --> 18:40.100 No, they threw it out. 18:40.100 --> 18:41.200 They said, we're not going to do this. 18:41.480 --> 18:43.260 DVDs are amazingly successful. 18:44.160 --> 18:47.520 You know, but DivX, no, consumers were smart enough to say, you know what? 18:47.760 --> 18:49.360 No, not doing it. 18:49.860 --> 18:50.100 Mm-hmm. 18:50.500 --> 19:02.100 So, anyway, that was from last week and I just wanted to bring that up again because I do, again, agree that he's kind of, there's some good points in there, 19:02.160 --> 19:04.540 but I don't know if he's really thought all of those things out. 19:05.300 --> 19:07.820 But it's good that he's thinking anyway. 19:07.820 --> 19:10.280 It's definitely good that he's thinking about this kind of stuff. 19:10.340 --> 19:11.220 They are valid points. 19:11.980 --> 19:17.760 Now, our first, now see, that was, that was more like a fixing last week. 19:17.820 --> 19:22.840 Let's start, actually, let me play our email theme music and start with today's or this episode's email. 19:22.840 --> 19:23.020 Email. 19:26.360 --> 19:26.760 Okay. 19:26.760 --> 19:31.960 And email number one comes from someone who we're going to protect their real name. 19:32.960 --> 19:34.840 And he says, good day, stank dog. 19:35.560 --> 19:35.960 Good day. 19:36.040 --> 19:37.580 Of course, that would be Australian, right? 19:38.080 --> 19:39.480 I'm a noob to the hacking world. 19:39.600 --> 19:42.260 I was lucky enough to meet a freak here in Australia. 19:42.260 --> 19:42.780 I was right. 19:43.340 --> 19:46.320 That I am going to uni and doing IT with. 19:46.420 --> 19:48.120 Uni, I guess, is university, I believe. 19:48.800 --> 19:49.580 I would guess. 19:49.640 --> 19:50.200 I would think. 19:50.260 --> 19:51.060 And doing IT with. 19:51.100 --> 19:52.320 He directed me to your site. 19:52.620 --> 19:53.960 In particular, the radio show. 19:53.960 --> 20:04.060 I just wanted to say that it is refreshing to hear someone talk about hacking realistically instead of the panic tactics used by the, ooh, I'm allowed to cuss if it's in here. 20:04.560 --> 20:04.780 Yes. 20:05.020 --> 20:05.280 Okay. 20:06.000 --> 20:08.900 Used by the fuckwits out there that have less knowledge than me. 20:09.120 --> 20:09.860 Yes, the government. 20:10.520 --> 20:12.240 Anyway, I'm making a few webpages. 20:12.360 --> 20:17.260 I just wanted to know if it's cool to link to your site and direct the general public to the radio programs. 20:18.640 --> 20:19.660 Um, absolutely. 20:20.240 --> 20:23.420 Of course, completely, I mean, you don't even have to ask. 20:23.420 --> 20:25.420 By all means, we want the information out. 20:25.480 --> 20:26.600 We want people to listen to the show. 20:26.680 --> 20:27.780 We want people to be educated. 20:27.920 --> 20:30.220 We want, you know, to get the word out. 20:30.320 --> 20:34.220 And I hope the, quote, general public does listen. 20:34.360 --> 20:36.240 But I don't think that's really the case. 20:36.320 --> 20:42.620 I think the general public doesn't really find, uh, me all that interesting, quite frankly. 20:44.320 --> 20:44.680 Um. 20:44.740 --> 20:47.980 You need to repeat the entire email, but say it in an Australian accent. 20:47.980 --> 20:52.020 I can't pull, even if I was not sick, I don't think I could pull that off. 20:52.520 --> 20:52.780 Yeah. 20:53.000 --> 20:53.600 G'day, mate. 20:53.900 --> 20:54.940 G'day, stank dog. 20:55.360 --> 20:57.040 I'm a noob to the hacking world. 20:58.000 --> 20:59.460 Is that, like, really bad? 21:01.240 --> 21:03.440 Oh, that would have been funny. 21:03.580 --> 21:04.720 I would have thought about that earlier. 21:04.780 --> 21:05.380 I would have tried it. 21:05.740 --> 21:07.480 I think we just offended all of Australia. 21:07.480 --> 21:10.020 Yes, I apologize to all of Australia's listeners. 21:10.040 --> 21:10.860 We actually have. 21:11.200 --> 21:13.760 I've had a couple emails from Australia, and I see hits in the log. 21:13.840 --> 21:15.640 There are people in Australia that listen to the show. 21:16.020 --> 21:18.340 So, by all means, uh, sorry. 21:20.220 --> 21:20.580 Um. 21:22.360 --> 21:25.480 Sorry, I had to get a little sip of iced tea after my Australian accent there. 21:26.300 --> 21:27.120 Uh, they know we're joking. 21:27.240 --> 21:29.120 But, yeah, you know, I mean, yes. 21:29.320 --> 21:31.080 Absolutely, we want people listening to the show. 21:31.300 --> 21:32.260 Feel free to do it. 21:32.560 --> 21:36.860 Um, we have a Creative Commons license on the site that pretty much allows you to do whatever you want, 21:36.860 --> 21:38.240 as long as you don't charge money for it. 21:38.640 --> 21:40.620 You know, so please, by all means, do that. 21:41.080 --> 21:45.040 And, uh, I think it's very cool that, you know, you've met up with someone out there 21:45.040 --> 21:46.340 that you have something in common with. 21:46.340 --> 21:48.620 And hopefully you guys can, you know, maybe form a group. 21:48.700 --> 21:49.100 I don't know. 21:49.880 --> 21:52.280 I know 2600 has meetings in other countries. 21:52.400 --> 21:54.260 I'm not sure which ones and where. 21:54.980 --> 21:55.900 They've gotten them in Australia. 21:56.200 --> 21:58.280 Yeah, and hopefully there's one local to them. 21:58.320 --> 21:59.540 If not, maybe start one up. 21:59.600 --> 22:02.760 I mean, you've got a couple people with things in common, you know. 22:02.800 --> 22:06.520 Or if nothing else, just hang out once a month and call it, you know, see how it goes. 22:07.380 --> 22:07.640 Mm-hmm. 22:07.880 --> 22:09.500 So, thank you for that email. 22:10.360 --> 22:15.560 And we had another email from Gil Bates, which I'm sure is a real name. 22:16.880 --> 22:20.360 And Gil says, greets Grand Master Stank. 22:20.440 --> 22:22.020 Do I have to say this one in, like, a rap voice? 22:22.320 --> 22:23.160 I believe so. 22:24.020 --> 22:26.220 Simple thanks to you and all your guests. 22:27.200 --> 22:30.920 Maybe I'll, I should have run this through the Snoop Dizzle website or whatever, 22:30.920 --> 22:32.840 where it changes everything. 22:33.100 --> 22:33.500 Yes. 22:33.660 --> 22:38.220 Simple thanks to you and all your guests for keeping the ball rolling with a new show each and every week. 22:38.720 --> 22:42.940 Just like to say I'm no hardcore hacker and probably a little older than most of the scene. 22:43.360 --> 22:47.760 But having said that, I enjoyed the varied tech topics covered each week and the way they're covered. 22:47.760 --> 22:53.540 Uh, you guys have fun while handling subjects in an intelligent, thoughtful manner. 22:53.680 --> 23:01.180 Stank, your do-it-yourself attitude and candid take on things is refreshing in this world of massive media flow based on politics, sales, etc. 23:01.180 --> 23:04.140 Love it when you play devil's advocate in a conversation. 23:04.500 --> 23:05.360 Really makes us think. 23:06.020 --> 23:12.220 I feel like homebrew net talk shows, hacker-related or otherwise, are one of the most interesting and real information exchanges available today. 23:12.320 --> 23:12.720 Good work. 23:13.760 --> 23:17.640 Um, actually, I'm going to interrupt the middle of the email to say I agree completely. 23:17.640 --> 23:26.480 I do think, hacker-related or otherwise, I do think internet shows, talk shows, even music shows and everything, I think are the future. 23:26.600 --> 23:32.100 I think people are tired of the whole Clear Channel monopoly and the force-feeding music and stuff like that. 23:32.620 --> 23:41.660 I do absolutely think that, hopefully anyway, there is going to be a big take-off in internet shows period regardless of topic. 23:42.080 --> 23:42.380 Mm-hmm. 23:42.380 --> 23:52.080 And, I think the same thing with, I think the same thing about the satellite radio stuff, too, but, they're, basically, they're not free. 23:52.280 --> 23:53.100 That's the short version. 23:53.600 --> 23:58.700 They're not free and you're going to start paying for premium content, which becomes just like the cable company and then you're, you know what? 24:00.220 --> 24:02.440 Okay, yeah, I'll back out of that rant again, too. 24:03.080 --> 24:03.240 Yeah. 24:03.420 --> 24:05.680 Anyway, here's what this email was going to be about. 24:05.900 --> 24:08.140 A couple of audio links your listeners might like. 24:08.600 --> 24:12.220 First, there's Hell's Bells, a radio history of the telephone. 24:12.380 --> 24:16.580 And, I've taken the liberty, this is a pretty long URL. 24:16.840 --> 24:26.200 I went ahead and tinyurl'd these, so you can check that one out at tinyurl.com slash five, B as in Victor, nine, QB, quarterback. 24:27.700 --> 24:32.280 Also, after you guys played an Evolution Control Committee song, I remembered listening to this. 24:32.280 --> 24:37.940 And, this link, I also tied the URL to 65JH3. 24:37.940 --> 24:45.280 It's an interview with Mark Gunderson of ECC discussing their music with interesting stories of media hacking. 24:45.820 --> 24:47.100 Hope someone enjoys these. 24:47.200 --> 24:49.540 Anyway, shouts to all the DDP crew, later. 24:49.540 --> 24:52.900 Yeah, thank you for the links. 24:53.140 --> 24:56.760 There's definitely, definitely people that are going to go check those out. 24:57.320 --> 24:59.680 I, myself, am going to listen to the interview with Mark Gunderson. 24:59.800 --> 25:00.560 I'd like to hear that. 25:01.680 --> 25:06.360 And, there's a lot of freaks I know that are going to go check out the radio history of the telephone. 25:06.520 --> 25:08.820 I know a bunch of people are going to check that one out. 25:08.820 --> 25:12.840 So, we will put the full links in the show notes as soon as we can. 25:15.060 --> 25:20.940 And, you know, sometimes I need to be reminded of this, that the show is fun. 25:21.620 --> 25:23.000 You know, at least we try to make it fun. 25:23.080 --> 25:25.480 I try to have fun while we're doing it and make some jokes. 25:25.800 --> 25:32.700 We're talking about serious topics and trying to teach and educate and bring things to light that people might not have noticed. 25:33.120 --> 25:36.740 But, at the same time, I don't want to get too awful serious that we can't laugh at it and have fun. 25:36.800 --> 25:37.280 You know what I mean? 25:37.660 --> 25:38.020 Exactly. 25:38.020 --> 25:39.060 I completely agree. 25:39.180 --> 25:41.260 Do the Australian accent once in a while. 25:43.080 --> 25:44.800 Right out, snag I cry. 25:45.840 --> 25:47.580 You're a much better crock hunter than I am. 25:48.260 --> 25:48.780 Oh, yeah. 25:49.080 --> 25:49.440 Crikey. 25:49.940 --> 25:50.600 Crikey, mate. 25:52.500 --> 25:58.000 But, yeah, some of the stories and topics that we touch on are so ridiculous that it's beyond getting mad at. 25:58.060 --> 26:00.600 I mean, if you can't laugh at the ridiculous, what else can you laugh at? 26:01.080 --> 26:01.480 Exactly. 26:01.800 --> 26:07.180 And, at the same time, sure, I'll take some jokes at my expense or laugh at just making up some silly, 26:07.180 --> 26:10.620 sometimes what might be called toilet humor. 26:10.740 --> 26:11.620 I'm not above that. 26:12.040 --> 26:12.740 No, of course not. 26:12.740 --> 26:12.940 Yeah. 26:13.540 --> 26:13.900 Occasionally. 26:13.960 --> 26:15.260 You know, within small doses. 26:16.060 --> 26:16.280 Yeah. 26:16.280 --> 26:20.060 Now, the guys on the conference lines might argue otherwise, but anyway. 26:20.060 --> 26:26.580 And, my co-hosts, present company included maybe, might disagree with you about the whole devil's advocate thing. 26:27.320 --> 26:28.080 No, no, no. 26:28.140 --> 26:29.080 I enjoy it. 26:29.080 --> 26:30.020 I see that. 26:30.080 --> 26:31.160 I just like arguing with people. 26:31.260 --> 26:32.120 That's the bottom line. 26:32.420 --> 26:37.140 Any chance I get to argue and debate someone, I jump all over it. 26:38.080 --> 26:41.720 So, I'm sure my co-hosts might not appreciate that sometimes. 26:41.720 --> 26:49.680 But, usually, we usually, at least we're intelligent enough and professional enough to agree to disagree if it comes to that, you know? 26:49.880 --> 26:50.300 That's true. 26:50.560 --> 26:50.880 So. 26:51.520 --> 26:53.580 Well, I'll just make a comment about your mom. 26:54.340 --> 26:56.240 I mean, the worst comes to worst, I can always do that. 26:56.340 --> 26:58.720 Yeah, I mean, you can always, it's always the fallback. 26:59.940 --> 27:00.260 Yep. 27:00.260 --> 27:04.340 And, man, but I'm warning you, you don't want to play the dozens with me. 27:04.400 --> 27:04.800 I'll warn you. 27:06.400 --> 27:10.980 Um, and don't worry, don't use any of those old worn out in living color mama jokes either. 27:11.060 --> 27:11.840 Those have all been done. 27:13.180 --> 27:15.420 So, yeah, thank you for the email. 27:16.020 --> 27:19.980 Um, and I will get those links up as soon as possible. 27:20.180 --> 27:23.580 And our last email tonight comes from Dirty Dex. 27:24.300 --> 27:25.360 Cool Nick, I guess. 27:25.900 --> 27:26.260 Interesting. 27:27.080 --> 27:28.280 Uh, nice show tonight. 27:28.280 --> 27:32.300 I stayed up to listen to it because you said you were going to read my email since last week's show. 27:32.840 --> 27:33.840 I appreciate you doing that. 27:33.880 --> 27:37.000 And, actually, I left it, I think, withheld last week. 27:37.340 --> 27:38.380 I appreciated you doing that. 27:38.420 --> 27:44.260 About what you said, a co-worker of mine spends his evenings burning copies of your program as well as the others. 27:44.460 --> 27:50.040 He passes them out to other poor souls doing the mindless stooge work at BB, which is, of course, Best Lie. 27:51.180 --> 27:53.360 Funny it's called it BB, though, and it's Best Lie. 27:53.420 --> 27:53.840 That's strange. 27:53.920 --> 27:54.820 BL, I'm going to call it. 27:54.820 --> 28:00.720 This was my last week at the Best Lie Center, and I can't freaking wait to break free and breathe a bit. 28:01.340 --> 28:05.720 When you read my message tonight, you reminded me that I didn't leave you with my Citizen's Band handle. 28:05.840 --> 28:12.320 I go by Dirty Dex after some messed up blues musician character I used on my college radio show. 28:13.040 --> 28:14.360 I'll be around and I'll be listening. 28:14.600 --> 28:15.840 Keep it up as long as it's fun. 28:15.840 --> 28:19.400 We all love it here in New Brunswick. 28:20.260 --> 28:22.180 We went from Australia to New Brunswick. 28:22.260 --> 28:22.800 How about that? 28:23.440 --> 28:23.600 Yeah. 28:24.660 --> 28:25.820 Hot to cold, I guess. 28:26.460 --> 28:30.640 Keep fighting for the term hacker stank dog and get a lady on the show for God's sake. 28:32.700 --> 28:33.100 Yeah. 28:34.040 --> 28:34.440 Yeah. 28:34.700 --> 28:35.640 Easier said than done. 28:36.860 --> 28:37.820 I'll work on that. 28:38.240 --> 28:38.880 I really will. 28:39.100 --> 28:39.660 I really will. 28:39.760 --> 28:41.900 I've got to see what I can come up with something like that. 28:41.900 --> 28:46.480 I made a joke last week about how we've never had a female co-host before, and it's true. 28:46.580 --> 28:47.940 I'm going to have to make that happen. 28:48.860 --> 28:49.340 Now, that's it. 28:49.420 --> 29:00.580 We're going to close up the mailbag here and go into the show and tell and kind of take a look here and be careful because the main topic tonight is going to be a Freaknik wrap-up 29:00.580 --> 29:04.240 and talk about some of the stuff that went on at Freaknik and some of our views on it. 29:05.840 --> 29:08.960 That's been really a lot of our show and tell, so I'm going to save that for later. 29:08.960 --> 29:17.720 But some of the other stuff that I've been working on it was actually on the way – I don't know if I want to – is this going to turn into a rant? 29:17.780 --> 29:18.180 Not a rant. 29:18.400 --> 29:22.800 I'll turn this into a little piece of advice, and that's time management. 29:24.380 --> 29:28.940 Time is the only resource that is not replenishable. 29:30.080 --> 29:31.080 It's the only one. 29:31.140 --> 29:32.560 It's the only thing that you can't get there. 29:32.560 --> 29:34.580 We've gone to a deep stank. 29:34.580 --> 29:38.120 We went from Australian stank and stank coughing. 29:38.120 --> 29:40.100 Fuscious Australian stank, says. 29:40.840 --> 29:41.920 Coughing into the microphone. 29:42.940 --> 29:51.420 What I mean by this is that I just flew like 1,000 miles there and 1,000 miles back to Nashville for Freaknik. 29:52.220 --> 29:55.440 And on the plane there, I had a couple layovers. 29:55.600 --> 29:57.420 I had a couple hours that I was in the air. 29:57.800 --> 30:01.640 I used that time to study for the certified ethical hacking exam. 30:01.640 --> 30:03.540 I had some practice questions. 30:03.660 --> 30:04.380 I had some books. 30:04.900 --> 30:09.400 So I was reading up and practicing for the certified ethical hacking exam while I was on the plane. 30:10.100 --> 30:14.940 And not only that, but I also wrote the introduction for the next issue of Binary Revolution magazine. 30:16.000 --> 30:24.020 So I guess what – I say that because I've had people email me saying, you know, how do you get so many projects done? 30:24.100 --> 30:26.600 And frankly, I don't think I get enough done myself. 30:26.680 --> 30:29.500 I try my best, but I procrastinate as much as anybody. 30:29.500 --> 30:35.700 I think almost anybody can write articles and produce these shows and stuff like that. 30:35.760 --> 30:37.040 There's been a lot of new shows lately. 30:37.460 --> 30:44.160 It's just a matter of instead of sitting in front of the TV for a couple hours, go and work on something. 30:44.660 --> 30:46.600 Pursue some sort of educational pursuit. 30:47.480 --> 30:48.820 You know, I watch as much TV as anybody. 30:48.920 --> 30:49.640 Don't get me wrong. 30:50.140 --> 30:52.440 You know, I'm waiting for American Idol to start up again. 30:54.860 --> 30:55.900 Tell me you're joking. 30:56.260 --> 30:57.080 I'm not joking. 30:57.080 --> 31:02.860 Believe me, I've heard all the crap from everybody for watching that show, but I still like it. 31:03.060 --> 31:03.280 Okay. 31:04.800 --> 31:11.160 And still, you know, you can – it's all in moderation, as the old saying goes. 31:11.360 --> 31:12.540 Anything in moderation. 31:13.400 --> 31:15.460 Just use – take advantage of your time. 31:15.620 --> 31:21.140 I don't – maybe this is something that came with age as I got older, which I was reminded how old I was at Freaknik. 31:21.140 --> 31:29.120 That you really need to – there's not much to be accomplished. 31:29.240 --> 31:34.260 You don't accomplish much by just sitting around and drinking or sitting around and hanging out. 31:34.400 --> 31:35.360 It's okay once in a while. 31:35.420 --> 31:36.080 Don't get me wrong. 31:36.920 --> 31:39.760 But I don't know. 31:39.760 --> 31:41.920 I don't really know what I'm trying to say, quite honestly. 31:42.680 --> 31:45.660 I wasn't planning on that, so that kind of – I didn't wing that one very well. 31:45.720 --> 31:48.000 But just take better – take advantage of your time. 31:48.080 --> 31:52.840 If you've got free time here and there, always keep like a book in your car, for example. 31:52.920 --> 31:55.080 That's a silly thing, but that's something very simple. 31:55.180 --> 32:01.040 Always keep a book in your car so that you're ever waiting on someone to pick somebody up or waiting in line somewhere. 32:01.040 --> 32:02.260 You've got a book that you can read. 32:02.740 --> 32:08.720 Why wait in a line with your thumb up your butt when you could be reading and learning? 32:10.040 --> 32:10.400 Exactly. 32:10.480 --> 32:13.120 You know, there's just little examples like that, just little things like that. 32:13.200 --> 32:19.860 I just always try to look for any opening – any opportunity or any opening to not waste time. 32:20.820 --> 32:22.540 And believe me, it doesn't always work. 32:24.180 --> 32:25.160 Anyway, what was I talking about? 32:25.160 --> 32:32.480 So anyway, certified ethical hacking exam I was studying for, and I'm actually making a guest appearance at a class this upcoming Friday. 32:32.580 --> 32:39.640 I'm going to go in and present to the ethical hacking class and kind of show them – I won't say an opposing viewpoint, 32:39.780 --> 32:44.700 but try to put things into perspective for all these people in this class. 32:44.700 --> 32:50.180 And I'm going to give a presentation and show them, you know, because I believe in educating anybody and everybody. 32:50.800 --> 32:53.780 It's not just about educating other hackers or other peers. 32:53.780 --> 32:55.900 I'm about educating anybody who wants to learn. 32:56.520 --> 32:58.220 So these people obviously want to learn. 32:58.320 --> 33:02.320 They're taking this class, so I'm going to go see what I can – if I have something to offer them. 33:03.040 --> 33:03.400 Excellent. 33:03.600 --> 33:06.140 And it's all about giving back and teaching new people. 33:06.540 --> 33:13.380 And that's what I love about the DDP crew is you guys totally push the pro-education, and you're always positive. 33:14.240 --> 33:20.860 Education is just so – I can't emphasize enough how infinitely important it is. 33:20.860 --> 33:28.840 And, you know, I don't know if – we can edit this out if you don't want this on the air, but, I mean, you're about to come to a big milestone here in the spring. 33:29.260 --> 33:29.480 Yep. 33:29.520 --> 33:30.820 I'm graduating from college. 33:31.780 --> 33:34.860 And I finally graduated from college. 33:35.320 --> 33:44.380 You know, I was doing – I was in the computer industry and have been in it for quite a while, so I was taking night classes and took me forever to get mine, but I finally did. 33:44.380 --> 33:45.100 And I'm not done. 33:45.540 --> 33:49.060 I'm going on for my master's, and I know you're tossing that idea around. 33:49.160 --> 33:52.580 You don't know if you're going to do it soon or maybe take some time off, but – 33:52.580 --> 33:53.040 Not sure. 33:53.220 --> 33:55.140 I know that I'm eventually going to do it. 33:55.140 --> 34:03.540 And, I mean, you've got to realize, like, not theory, dual parallel, all these people, they have an education. 34:03.720 --> 34:05.340 They know what they're talking about. 34:05.420 --> 34:12.380 These are – it's infinitely important, not only in the job, in the workforce, in the job market. 34:12.840 --> 34:14.420 It's definitely important there. 34:14.420 --> 34:21.120 You know, we could go into a tangent or debate on the value of a piece of paper by some arbitrary college, but you know what? 34:21.140 --> 34:22.000 It does carry weight. 34:22.660 --> 34:26.280 And, frankly, you do learn a lot in college. 34:27.380 --> 34:32.080 So, anyway, a second rant out of nowhere, second lecture out of nowhere. 34:33.180 --> 34:34.820 Man, I really am getting old. 34:36.700 --> 34:37.740 Oh, man. 34:38.340 --> 34:39.620 Let me get back to the show and tell. 34:39.620 --> 34:48.720 Well, I mentioned that I put up a new file server, 1.5 terabyte file server, and over the past week and the next few months, I've been moving files over to it. 34:49.080 --> 34:57.140 So, I'm going through, like, boxes and boxes of diskettes even, old floppy disks and moving stuff over to this thing now. 34:57.200 --> 35:00.640 And then I'll sort through them and organize them and see what kind of old stuff I can find. 35:00.640 --> 35:04.500 I know Jason Scott over at textfiles.com, I've spoken to him. 35:04.560 --> 35:08.900 I know I've got tons of old text files and hacking programs and stuff like that stored away. 35:08.900 --> 35:13.520 Hopefully, they're not destroyed from years of sun and abuse or whatever. 35:13.740 --> 35:13.980 On a floppy. 35:14.300 --> 35:18.540 Yeah, I mean, they probably may all be ruined and send some stuff over to him, hopefully. 35:19.340 --> 35:24.100 So, that's going to be, like, many months of constant work, free time work there. 35:25.220 --> 35:26.460 So, that's for me. 35:26.580 --> 35:34.260 Now that I've lectured everybody and bored them to tears, if there's any listeners left, why don't you talk about, you're always working on something. 35:34.260 --> 35:52.540 Well, so, at Freaknik, I gave a little talk on a program I've been working on on and off for, like, two years now that basically kind of reads and allows you to modify some files that a spyware program uses. 35:52.540 --> 35:57.180 So, the spyware program, like, monitors your screen captures and key logs, stuff like that. 35:57.260 --> 36:00.820 This is sold commercially, so employers can monitor their employees. 36:01.060 --> 36:04.180 And so, you know, parents can make sure their kids aren't talking to pedophiles. 36:06.020 --> 36:07.540 It's a whole other rant there. 36:07.760 --> 36:17.800 I think you will have much greater return if you actually teach people what's right and wrong than just trying to spy on them all the damn time. 36:17.800 --> 36:22.080 So, this allows you to change it, modify it, do all sorts of fun stuff. 36:22.320 --> 36:26.900 And I talked about that at Freaknik, which we'll talk about in a minute, and it got me kind of energized. 36:27.200 --> 36:30.380 So, I've been spending a couple hours these last days on it. 36:31.220 --> 36:39.700 Stripe Snoop, my MagStripe program that I've been working on, I'm actually – I wrote an article that's appearing in O'Reilly's Make magazine. 36:39.960 --> 36:43.460 It's this big 200-page quarterly they're putting out. 36:43.460 --> 36:51.780 And I also am talking with them right now about giving them some footage for a DVD on how – on constructing this MagStripe stuff. 36:51.880 --> 36:53.760 They're trying to have a nice little how-to video. 36:54.600 --> 36:55.180 Let's see. 36:55.360 --> 37:06.420 Also, some company that makes little Linux point-of-sale devices, you know, like check readers, those little things, you know, by the cash register that will dial up to do credit card transactions, that type of stuff. 37:06.420 --> 37:11.360 Has actually – we're in the process of licensing Stripe Snoop to them. 37:11.420 --> 37:19.880 They want to use it in their product, so they're going to, you know, pay me a nice little fee to be able to use particular parts of Stripe Snoop in their product. 37:20.400 --> 37:23.200 So, yes, you can, in fact, make money off open-source software. 37:23.580 --> 37:24.940 Bet you didn't think you could, but you can. 37:25.140 --> 37:25.500 Yep. 37:25.760 --> 37:26.120 Licensing. 37:26.620 --> 37:27.860 So, that's keeping me busy. 37:27.960 --> 37:31.000 And, of course, you know, school and general social stuff. 37:31.380 --> 37:33.280 So, busy, busy guy. 37:33.280 --> 37:35.120 Yeah, and, you know, I'm glad you brought that up, too. 37:35.200 --> 37:36.980 Social stuff, it exists, man. 37:37.000 --> 37:37.620 We have lives. 37:37.680 --> 37:38.200 We try to. 37:38.800 --> 37:56.320 You know, I have like six projects that are entirely theoretical at this stage, and it helps so much to – luckily here in Atlanta, I've got about five or six good hacker friends that, you know, I visit pretty regularly with, and I can always just run ideas by them, you know. 37:56.320 --> 38:15.480 So, and between, you know, everyone, there's a – you know, if I need to know about something, be it from, you know, radio frequencies to, you know, this type of circuit design or, you know, this obscure protocol or, you know, whatever, chances are one of us knows at least something about it to get the person started. 38:15.720 --> 38:19.780 So, networking, even amongst hackers, is extremely important. 38:20.100 --> 38:20.540 Absolutely. 38:20.540 --> 38:20.700 Absolutely. 38:21.800 --> 38:22.160 Absolutely. 38:22.340 --> 38:22.980 Couldn't agree more. 38:23.940 --> 38:25.240 We do the same thing with the DDP. 38:25.860 --> 38:26.040 Yeah. 38:26.140 --> 38:28.080 Because it is very hard. 38:28.200 --> 38:28.720 Let's be honest. 38:28.840 --> 38:30.280 I mean, I've said it before. 38:30.360 --> 38:31.600 You're very lucky in Atlanta. 38:31.720 --> 38:37.120 You've got some really, really good people there, and not everybody has that luxury. 38:37.260 --> 38:45.380 You're lucky enough that they have a lot of people in a – you know, like New York, for example, is another good scene, I would think, that there's quite a few people there being a big city. 38:45.380 --> 38:48.680 And I would assume the same with Los Angeles, et cetera, et cetera. 38:49.860 --> 38:50.760 So, yeah. 38:50.760 --> 38:52.700 You know, from what I've heard, it varies. 38:52.860 --> 38:57.860 I mean, like, you'll tell me about 2,600 meetings you guys have down in Florida, and you'll be like, oh, I gave a presentation. 38:58.200 --> 39:07.580 And, like, in Atlanta, it's like a bunch of guys meeting in the mall and just talking, you know, out in – some of the DEF CON meetings I know are more formalized. 39:07.580 --> 39:09.320 It totally just depends. 39:09.560 --> 39:09.880 But you know what? 39:09.960 --> 39:14.600 If you're in a city and you can't find people, you know, there's – open up a 2,600. 39:14.920 --> 39:18.720 It's full of e-mail addresses of people writing stuff that you might be interested in. 39:19.100 --> 39:24.680 And, you know, I literally – even articles I wrote three years ago, I still get e-mail about them. 39:25.980 --> 39:28.800 People saying, hey, I took what you did, and I expanded on it. 39:29.360 --> 39:33.700 And, you know, we – as an author, you know, I can tell you I love getting mail about that stuff. 39:33.700 --> 39:38.720 And, you know, anybody who, you know, e-mails you back and tells you to screw yourself, no, they're not cool. 39:39.620 --> 39:43.360 Any author worth a salt will gladly take the time to talk with you, point you in the right direction. 39:43.640 --> 39:44.720 Don't ask stupid questions. 39:44.900 --> 39:54.260 I mean, by that I mean actually read through, and if there's a website about that topic, you know, that they themselves author, you know, go look at the FAQ before sending e-mail. 39:54.680 --> 40:02.200 I mean, I get a lot of e-mail, and probably about 20 percent of it could have been answered had they, you know, just more thoroughly read the – 40:02.200 --> 40:03.100 Yeah, I – 40:03.100 --> 40:04.720 The already published information. 40:05.000 --> 40:06.460 I can verify that percentage. 40:06.660 --> 40:07.660 That sounds about good. 40:08.320 --> 40:08.500 Yeah. 40:09.800 --> 40:11.160 Yep, absolutely true. 40:12.860 --> 40:14.360 Well, let's talk about Freaknik. 40:14.440 --> 40:14.920 How about that? 40:15.320 --> 40:16.260 Let's talk about Freaknik. 40:16.380 --> 40:17.900 Stank, we've got to get some energy going on here. 40:17.980 --> 40:19.500 I mean, you're sick. 40:19.500 --> 40:23.800 I mean, my throat, I hope everyone, you know, isn't being decimated by my voice. 40:23.920 --> 40:25.380 Oh, God, my throat is killing me, too. 40:26.840 --> 40:27.240 Freaknik. 40:27.440 --> 40:28.460 Freaknik was in Nashville. 40:29.440 --> 40:29.620 Freaknik? 40:29.620 --> 40:33.400 And Freaknik was about what it was every year. 40:33.580 --> 40:38.700 I mean, the two sides of it, you know, I had fun, you, not so much. 40:39.260 --> 40:41.340 Well, yes and no. 40:41.560 --> 40:42.100 Yes and no. 40:42.100 --> 40:54.800 I did have fun, but not – like what you said earlier about the 2600 meetings, about, like, I presented something, or ZeroDBs presented something, Cy Pete's presented things. 40:54.800 --> 40:57.320 Um, that's what I like. 40:57.400 --> 40:58.120 That's what I enjoy. 40:58.240 --> 41:00.900 I go to these meetings and to these conferences to learn. 41:01.340 --> 41:01.680 Right. 41:01.820 --> 41:03.220 You know, that's my number one thing. 41:03.280 --> 41:06.780 I'm going there because of the speaker tracks. 41:07.140 --> 41:08.920 That's the main thing that pulls me in. 41:09.420 --> 41:09.540 Right. 41:09.540 --> 41:22.340 Now, secondary to that, it's always great that I hang out and meet other people and hackers with like interests that are intelligent, and I can discuss things with them, and they'll understand and get it because they're in the scene and things like that. 41:22.720 --> 41:26.380 And aren't standing outside your door at 3 o'clock in the morning talking about stupid things. 41:26.460 --> 41:27.460 Whether God was – 41:27.460 --> 41:34.780 Yeah, discussing whether God was an alien at a hacking convention at like 3 or 4 in the morning. 41:35.480 --> 41:36.640 That happened. 41:36.960 --> 41:37.240 I don't – 41:37.240 --> 41:37.640 I know. 41:37.860 --> 41:38.380 I know. 41:38.900 --> 41:42.460 I slipped through it like a rock, but I mean, apparently it screwed up with you. 41:42.920 --> 41:43.040 Yeah. 41:43.240 --> 41:45.700 Well, um, Desi has heard it also, I believe. 41:46.180 --> 41:46.400 Yeah? 41:46.580 --> 41:47.100 Because, yeah. 41:47.280 --> 41:49.220 You guys were like a room away from each other. 41:49.220 --> 41:50.060 Yeah, exactly. 41:50.860 --> 41:54.780 Um, but yeah, well, that's – you know, we'll come back to that. 41:54.780 --> 41:56.740 Let's talk about the actual speaking track. 41:57.280 --> 41:57.380 Sure. 41:57.460 --> 42:04.600 Um, because there were a couple things that I was looking forward to seeing, and then there were some things, quite frankly, that didn't interest me. 42:04.800 --> 42:09.120 And I'm not going to put anybody down or single anybody out, but I'm going to talk about some of the specific ones. 42:09.780 --> 42:12.300 Um, first of all, I got in on Thursday. 42:12.920 --> 42:13.180 Yep. 42:13.260 --> 42:15.680 I flew in Thursday evening, Thursday night. 42:16.100 --> 42:18.800 Um, I met Natus and Lucky 225 at the airport. 42:19.020 --> 42:21.400 I picked up a rental, and we all went to the hotel. 42:22.040 --> 42:22.940 Um, we went out. 42:23.020 --> 42:27.440 We went downtown Nashville Thursday night and actually met up, ironically, with my sister. 42:27.460 --> 42:29.840 Who happened to be in Nashville for a business thing. 42:30.680 --> 42:33.260 So, um, I got to see my sister in Nashville. 42:33.260 --> 42:36.360 Like, I don't see her all the time here anyway, but it was kind of an interesting thing. 42:36.860 --> 42:38.880 Interesting experience, as you told me. 42:38.980 --> 42:39.220 Right. 42:39.320 --> 42:40.720 And so I – so, yeah, very much. 42:41.040 --> 42:44.000 And basically Thursday night I was able to settle in. 42:44.060 --> 42:44.920 I was able to sleep. 42:45.420 --> 42:48.280 Um, I woke up the next morning to work down at the registration desk. 42:48.880 --> 42:53.680 Um, which really there wasn't really much – wasn't a demanding job, I'll say it like that. 42:54.060 --> 42:54.260 Yep. 42:54.260 --> 42:57.220 Um, and so that was it. 42:57.320 --> 42:59.300 From 10 to 12 I worked at the registration desk. 42:59.380 --> 43:02.680 So, basically Thursday I just settled in and got my room relaxed. 43:02.960 --> 43:08.460 Played a great little – little prank, a little thing on, uh, on some of the guys there. 43:08.600 --> 43:10.580 And, uh, that'll be on an upcoming Hack TV. 43:11.480 --> 43:15.320 Um, and the speaking started at 12 o'clock. 43:15.320 --> 43:20.600 So that's purposely why I went 10 to 12 that morning, so I could make it up to hear the actual speaker tracks. 43:20.720 --> 43:26.000 And the first one that I went to was actually a friend of yours who – and you know what? 43:26.040 --> 43:26.700 I'll stop here. 43:26.800 --> 43:30.780 I – instead of saving shouts for the end of the show, I'm going to kind of mix some in as we go along. 43:30.920 --> 43:31.460 Is that cool? 43:31.460 --> 43:31.720 Sure, mix some in. 43:32.360 --> 43:35.520 Um, because there's just so many, and I might forget people at the end. 43:36.140 --> 43:38.680 Uh, first of all, shouts out to this guy, Bodburn. 43:39.200 --> 43:40.040 Bodburn is excellent. 43:40.100 --> 43:42.680 I think it's bodburn.com. 43:42.940 --> 43:44.640 Okay, bodburn.com. 43:44.640 --> 43:50.440 Um, this guy – this was, first of all, a great way to start meeting someone like this at the beginning 43:50.440 --> 43:55.100 because he came in, and he – actually, he was asking for you. 43:55.800 --> 44:01.920 And we – you and I have never – um, he – excuse me, he and I had never met before. 44:02.440 --> 44:02.720 Uh-huh. 44:03.160 --> 44:07.240 Um, but we had a common friend – we had a friend in common, and that was you. 44:07.800 --> 44:12.440 So I kind of mentioned that I had spoken to you on the phone and that you were leaving, 44:12.440 --> 44:18.440 and I mentioned I'm surprised that he was here because he had some potential conflicts that he obviously worked out and made it. 44:18.820 --> 44:18.980 Yeah. 44:18.980 --> 44:26.060 Um, but it was really a good feeling to know, and this is – yeah, I get corny and sappy sometimes, but deal with it. 44:26.280 --> 44:31.760 It was really cool to see somebody, and this also may be a southern hospitality thing. 44:32.160 --> 44:32.380 Uh-huh. 44:32.380 --> 44:34.740 Um, a friend of yours is a friend of mine attitude. 44:35.240 --> 44:35.480 Yep. 44:35.600 --> 44:39.920 As soon as I mentioned that, you know, I had spoken to you or whatever, and we just started talking, 44:40.100 --> 44:44.660 and I mean, we sat there and talked until he had to go up to his presentation. 44:44.800 --> 44:50.680 We walked up, and, um, it was just such – he was just such a nice guy that we sat and talked about – 44:50.680 --> 44:54.060 I mean, when I say talked, I mean, we talked about some fairly intellectual things. 44:54.140 --> 44:56.500 We didn't just talk about, oh, yeah, where do you know acid is from? 44:56.660 --> 45:01.380 No, that just started the conversation, and it was two friendly people who were able to start talking 45:01.380 --> 45:02.600 who'd never met before. 45:03.100 --> 45:03.360 Uh-huh. 45:03.360 --> 45:06.800 So he was a very, very nice guy, so I definitely give shout-outs to him, 45:07.400 --> 45:12.320 and then went upstairs for his presentation, which was the first presentation that Friday. 45:13.740 --> 45:18.900 And that was on just basic hardware hacking, hardware interfacing, that type of stuff, right? 45:18.900 --> 45:20.500 Right, right, and – 45:20.500 --> 45:25.280 How to etch boards, how to, you know, um, uh, that type of stuff, make, uh, those things. 45:25.400 --> 45:29.120 Right, and they did – they etched a board up on the presentation itself. 45:29.220 --> 45:31.760 They had the – the chemicals and everything up there ready to go. 45:32.200 --> 45:38.380 Now, this is really where my first – not – I won't say problem, but this is where my first, um, 45:39.800 --> 45:47.160 concern with Freaknik kind of aired, and that is that here is this guy who was very cool, like I said, 45:47.160 --> 45:52.100 giving – this is one of the presentations that I was most looking forward to, because I'm not good with hardware. 45:52.700 --> 45:53.940 I'm not good at hacking hardware. 45:54.040 --> 45:55.080 I'm not good with that kind of stuff. 45:55.120 --> 45:59.760 So I was really looking forward to this, even though it wasn't exactly what I was expecting, but it was still good. 46:00.540 --> 46:04.580 But what bothered me was that here was this guy, the first speaker of the night, 46:04.700 --> 46:07.560 and I don't think there were more than 25 people in the room. 46:07.560 --> 46:15.520 Um, and I felt bad that – that here he was, going out of his way to present this thing at this conference, 46:16.360 --> 46:20.520 and people couldn't find their way to come to the presentation? 46:21.120 --> 46:22.360 I know, it's rough. 46:22.560 --> 46:22.980 That really – 46:22.980 --> 46:25.500 Well, he was speaking at noon on Friday, but you're right. 46:25.600 --> 46:29.680 I mean, it – it – especially how fantastic I know that talk was. 46:29.680 --> 46:37.160 I mean, I was actually driving up from Atlanta while he was giving it, and I know how good it was, and people really did miss out. 46:37.860 --> 46:38.940 Yeah, and that's a shame. 46:39.040 --> 46:46.140 And now, to justify that a little bit, I do understand that it was a Friday and it was noon. 46:46.280 --> 46:48.560 Some people were at work and could not get off. 46:49.200 --> 46:50.200 I realize that. 46:50.540 --> 46:56.320 But to me, why was this a Friday-Saturday and not a Saturday-Sunday? 46:56.320 --> 47:01.400 I mean, it just seems like a foolish decision to me, but that's just my personal opinion. 47:02.300 --> 47:03.460 But I guess that's the tradition. 47:03.600 --> 47:07.460 That's the way they've always done it, so, you know, some people didn't get off work. 47:07.760 --> 47:11.940 And the same – the same trend happened up until Friday evening. 47:12.040 --> 47:15.580 Like, 6 o'clock, people started to come – more people started to come to the convention. 47:16.640 --> 47:22.080 You know, and that's obviously because they were getting off of work, and as the night went on, people were driving in from wherever they happened to live. 47:22.480 --> 47:24.780 So as the night drew on, the con got bigger. 47:25.240 --> 47:25.760 Mm-hmm. 47:26.680 --> 47:30.940 So – but I still felt, I don't know, disappointed for him. 47:31.800 --> 47:34.680 Not in him, but for him not having a bigger audience for that. 47:37.060 --> 47:38.120 And – oh, you know what else? 47:38.140 --> 47:47.880 Just another – I'm going to give – I don't even know this person, but the 3 o'clock presentation on micro-broadcasting was supposed to be by ZPO. 47:48.880 --> 47:50.960 I don't – I do not know this person at all. 47:51.040 --> 47:51.840 I don't know if you do. 47:52.460 --> 47:52.700 Mm-hmm. 47:52.700 --> 48:02.960 And I don't know if it's ZPO or Zippo, but ZPO was supposed to present at 3 o'clock and did not make it because he actually got called off to Iraq at the last minute. 48:03.260 --> 48:03.820 Oh, wow. 48:03.820 --> 48:13.380 So there was a gap in the presentations for that, at which time they took a couple volunteers to do some impromptu presentations just on the fly there. 48:13.380 --> 48:16.160 But, you know what? 48:16.160 --> 48:19.520 I'm giving this guy shouts out anyway for his priorities. 48:20.280 --> 48:21.860 You know, real life comes first. 48:22.300 --> 48:24.200 And, you know what? 48:24.380 --> 48:28.260 He's doing something that I wouldn't want to do and wouldn't wish on someone else. 48:28.320 --> 48:28.880 So, you know what? 48:28.880 --> 48:34.480 I've got most utmost respect for him for what he had to go through, what he has to do now. 48:34.960 --> 48:36.180 He's doing the noble thing. 48:36.320 --> 48:36.680 Exactly. 48:36.980 --> 48:39.380 I think our collective hats are certainly off to him. 48:39.480 --> 48:39.880 Absolutely. 48:40.100 --> 48:40.940 I don't know you. 48:41.140 --> 48:44.240 I don't know if I'll ever know you or meet you, but you have my respect. 48:44.920 --> 48:45.120 Yeah. 48:45.720 --> 48:51.140 Anyway, now, later on, there was this crappy Spectersoft thing that somebody gave. 48:51.280 --> 48:52.340 Yeah, what the hell was that? 48:52.420 --> 48:54.640 I don't know, but I wish he would have started it on time. 48:55.080 --> 48:55.900 Punk-ass kid. 48:56.480 --> 49:05.140 No, he probably would have started it on time at that guy that was doing the, you know, let me literally scream into the microphone about the RIA. 49:05.620 --> 49:07.480 No, it was a good talk. 49:07.520 --> 49:07.860 I'm kidding. 49:08.100 --> 49:08.540 No, it was. 49:08.540 --> 49:09.960 But he ran over about 15 minutes. 49:10.380 --> 49:12.300 No, but, you know, and he was good. 49:12.300 --> 49:16.080 I think he ran over because the other freestyle presentations ran over. 49:16.180 --> 49:18.900 But, anyway, yeah, and actually I did see both of those. 49:18.980 --> 49:20.200 I did see the RIA. 49:20.640 --> 49:22.300 I missed the beginning of it, but I caught the end. 49:22.340 --> 49:36.520 And I actually spoke to him afterwards because he had some things that I agree with, and I wanted to, you know, give him respect that, A, I'd like to hook up with him afterwards because some of the things we're doing on DDP Hack Radio coincide with some of his philosophies and stuff. 49:36.520 --> 49:42.040 So I definitely want to maintain a relationship or an open discussion with him on things like that. 49:42.080 --> 49:45.100 He's a good resource to have because he definitely knew what he was talking about. 49:45.500 --> 49:51.480 And, B, it was probably one of the most professional presentations I've seen. 49:51.480 --> 49:52.540 He took time. 49:52.780 --> 49:54.600 The slides were organized well. 49:55.860 --> 49:57.640 All the text wasn't in the slides. 49:57.740 --> 50:02.600 There were bullet points and topics, and then he expanded upon them, which is exactly what a good presentation is. 50:03.260 --> 50:05.700 You know, you want to keep the audience listening to your voice. 50:05.780 --> 50:08.380 You don't want them reading slides, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 50:08.380 --> 50:12.460 So he – it was very professional, and he took a lot of time into it. 50:12.600 --> 50:16.140 And I'm telling you, from a viewer standpoint, it shows. 50:16.800 --> 50:17.960 It really shows. 50:18.060 --> 50:31.000 There were other presentations, not only at Freaknik but at other cons, that the people looked like they really whipped something up, and the presentation was a total of five or ten slides and didn't cover things very well. 50:31.000 --> 50:37.820 Or on the opposite hand, they were reading to you from so many slides, and you might as well have just read the book or read a text file. 50:38.560 --> 50:38.720 Yeah. 50:38.920 --> 50:42.020 So I give him absolute credit that he took his time and did that. 50:42.500 --> 50:45.620 And here I go blowing smoke up your ass again. 50:45.620 --> 50:47.860 And I feel the same way about your presentation. 50:48.080 --> 50:53.620 And maybe it's because you learn presentation skills in college. 50:53.820 --> 50:54.820 They emphasize that. 50:54.860 --> 50:56.540 You have to do that for many classes. 50:58.240 --> 51:00.620 I think that's got something to do with it. 51:01.060 --> 51:07.420 I kind of had to pick up on it, and it was – you learn to do it quick. 51:07.540 --> 51:10.840 In fact, there's a good friend of mine up there in Nashville. 51:10.840 --> 51:15.940 Actually, he's from Alabama, but Syod, and Syod, you know, came up to me. 51:16.060 --> 51:17.600 I've known him since the first Inner Zone. 51:17.760 --> 51:21.880 He's like, dude, your presentation skills have only gotten better since the first Inner Zone. 51:22.580 --> 51:24.500 And you really just learn to pick up. 51:24.760 --> 51:26.600 You learn, you know, your slides are not there. 51:27.220 --> 51:33.840 You know, people should be able to look at your slides after the talk and only get a rough idea, basically, of your flow and where you were going. 51:34.180 --> 51:38.020 But, you know, if people could just sit there and read your slides, why are you there talking? 51:38.020 --> 51:39.900 I mean, use those as bullet points. 51:39.900 --> 51:42.760 But this kind of goes, actually, with public speaking. 51:42.900 --> 51:47.600 If you're ever doing public speaking and you've got note cards or something, you never write complete sentences on your note cards. 51:47.880 --> 51:54.360 You just put, like, a little couple of words or a little phrase or something to remind you of different points you want to hit. 51:54.660 --> 51:57.640 And those are basically all your PowerPoint slides should be. 51:58.140 --> 51:58.380 Right. 51:58.800 --> 52:03.000 Well, and what I do is I usually put notes down at the bottom of the PowerPoint presentation or whatever. 52:03.500 --> 52:04.340 Yeah, to remind you. 52:04.400 --> 52:05.380 To remind me of stuff. 52:05.380 --> 52:11.180 And I'm definitely, I admit, I'm overly verbose in a lot of that kind of stuff, as you know from the show notes. 52:11.560 --> 52:11.920 Yes. 52:11.920 --> 52:22.740 But, you know, the thing is, not only did you have the professionalism and the flow, and again, I'm being honest, I'm not blowing smoke up your ass, but you made it fun. 52:23.320 --> 52:28.120 I mean, when someone has a joy and an interest and fun in what they're doing, because you were sitting there. 52:28.220 --> 52:33.860 You came in just in, like, what, 45 minutes maybe before your presentation that you actually arrived? 52:33.860 --> 52:37.300 I arrived into Atlanta, I arrived into Nashville from Atlanta. 52:37.460 --> 52:42.840 I had class, and I was able to leave Atlanta until about 1.30ish or so. 52:43.260 --> 52:46.680 And it's pretty much a four-hour drive straight to Nashville. 52:47.440 --> 52:52.220 And I was speaking at 5 o'clock Central, so I got in at, or, yeah, 5 o'clock Central. 52:52.540 --> 52:56.240 So I got there at, like, 4.30, 4.15ish Central time. 52:56.800 --> 53:00.220 And pulled into the parking lot as you were giving me a call. 53:00.220 --> 53:03.300 Yeah, that was, oh, yeah, I didn't, I never did tell you about that. 53:03.360 --> 53:04.960 That totally freaked me the hell out. 53:05.700 --> 53:15.000 So, for the viewers, so, I'm driving into the hotel parking lot, and, you know, I see, if you've ever seen Stank Dodds, Stank has a very definitive way of dressing. 53:16.580 --> 53:20.360 And I've been, you know, coming out with a, with a sports jersey and a hat. 53:20.600 --> 53:22.400 I always wear that on the first day of conferences. 53:22.540 --> 53:23.220 Yes, that's true. 53:23.220 --> 53:29.700 And he is, I suddenly, you know, I'm like, oh, that kind of looks like, and then I look down, my phone's ringing. 53:29.900 --> 53:33.940 And then I look up, and I'm like, wait a minute, that person just sat down on the bench, and they're holding a cell phone. 53:34.080 --> 53:35.560 And, of course, it was you calling me. 53:35.700 --> 53:40.680 And so, I answer the phone, and I don't even say hi, I just say, look to your left. 53:41.300 --> 53:44.820 Kind of pause for a second, look to your left, and I'm driving right at you. 53:44.820 --> 53:51.860 Yeah, and it really was totally bizarre, because I went downstairs to get a breath of fresh air, and I said, you know what, let me see how close he is. 53:51.880 --> 53:53.820 He should be getting here pretty soon. 53:54.100 --> 53:57.100 And I started dialing, and that's exactly what you said, look to your left. 53:57.180 --> 54:01.440 And sure enough, how bizarro was that, that you're right there. 54:02.520 --> 54:04.400 So, yeah, that was really, really funny. 54:04.400 --> 54:13.660 And just to, for those people who don't know, I do have a jersey, a Miami Heat jersey, because I'm representing the 305 South Florida. 54:14.820 --> 54:23.100 I have a jersey that says Stank Dog, and I always wear that on the first day of the conference, so that I'm easy to find people that are looking for me and don't know what I look like, et cetera. 54:23.480 --> 54:29.180 So, yeah, I was sitting out there with my jersey, and sure enough, you drive up, and then this is the thing. 54:29.220 --> 54:34.180 You had to run up there, and I think your exact words was, dust off the presentation. 54:34.740 --> 54:36.700 Yes, I had to dust off the presentation. 54:36.900 --> 54:41.380 Hadn't updated it or done, you know, wanted to clarify a couple things on it. 54:41.720 --> 54:42.040 Exactly. 54:42.320 --> 54:42.780 Make some changes. 54:42.780 --> 54:50.320 I had been, Strape Snoop has been taking so much of my time, this, I had emailed Dolomite, you know, months and months ago, 54:50.380 --> 54:55.800 hey, you know, I'll talk, because I've talked at the last three Freakniks, Freakniks 6, 7, and 8. 54:55.980 --> 54:59.260 And so I said, you know, hey, I'll give a talk, and this is why I'm interested right now. 54:59.320 --> 55:01.780 Well, Strape Snoop kind of took off, you know. 55:01.780 --> 55:10.460 I emailed him before Hope that I would do this SpectreSoft stuff, and Strape Snoop's taken off, and I just, I haven't had the time to get back into it. 55:10.460 --> 55:22.100 And so I kind of dusted off my research and some slides I had made a while ago and updated them and, you know, added some of the information I had learned that I had had time to do research on. 55:22.260 --> 55:24.540 And I think it went pretty well. 55:24.660 --> 55:30.540 I mean, it's funny, because like I said, I kind of rediscovered how really cool it was, what I was working on. 55:31.200 --> 55:34.340 And so I'm kind of continuing to work on it again. 55:34.860 --> 55:35.820 Cool, very cool. 55:37.060 --> 55:41.760 And then after you was Amy Sturgis. 55:41.760 --> 55:49.800 And, you know, one other thing about your presentation, there were more questions and feedback after yours than any of the other presentations. 55:50.500 --> 55:51.800 Oh, you mean people coming up afterwards? 55:52.240 --> 55:55.400 No, just asking questions and feedback at the end of the thing. 55:55.740 --> 55:56.300 Oh, yeah. 55:56.360 --> 55:57.180 So that's the other thing. 55:57.220 --> 56:00.400 If you're giving a talk, people are going to ask more questions than you expect. 56:00.540 --> 56:05.160 But I was pretty happy, because my talk got pretty populated. 56:05.720 --> 56:08.080 And I don't want to sound like, you know, I have a thick head. 56:08.080 --> 56:12.440 But, I mean, I've been doing this in kind of the SE 2600 scene for about three years now. 56:12.540 --> 56:18.040 And I pretty much talked at, you know, the two big conferences that are held in the southeast, which are Interzone and Freaknik. 56:18.120 --> 56:19.580 And I've done so for the last three years. 56:19.840 --> 56:23.940 So people tend to go, oh, after this is speaking, I will go hear that. 56:25.200 --> 56:29.960 And I swear, one time I bet I could just go up there and talk about shit and still get a room. 56:29.960 --> 56:35.020 But it certainly is nice when people actually come up and talk with me afterwards. 56:35.220 --> 56:36.820 And they're like, no, that was good. 56:36.940 --> 56:38.260 We weren't just coming for you. 56:38.380 --> 56:40.860 We were coming because we knew it would be good, and you didn't disappoint. 56:41.340 --> 56:41.480 Right. 56:41.680 --> 56:41.880 So. 56:42.160 --> 56:42.360 Yeah. 56:42.580 --> 56:43.320 And you didn't. 56:43.720 --> 56:44.680 It was a very good talk. 56:44.740 --> 56:46.460 And I didn't know that stuff beforehand. 56:46.460 --> 56:51.680 And I feel like, you know, if I wanted to, I could take and apply that and do it myself. 56:51.900 --> 56:57.200 And, you know, you gave enough information to get somebody started and play with it on their own. 56:57.560 --> 56:57.840 Yep. 56:58.660 --> 57:02.060 And we won't go into too much detail and relive the actual presentation. 57:02.700 --> 57:03.060 Exactly. 57:03.320 --> 57:04.020 But, yeah, you can. 57:04.320 --> 57:05.640 Are they making a video, by the way? 57:05.880 --> 57:08.240 Do Freaknik release videos of all the presentations? 57:08.440 --> 57:08.940 Or how do they? 57:08.940 --> 57:14.520 So here's the difference between the two big cons in the southeast, which are Freaknik and InnerZone. 57:15.040 --> 57:20.020 InnerZone is created by a guy named Rocket, and the entire point of the con is for Rocket to make money. 57:20.600 --> 57:23.640 And he'll tell you something differently, but it is so Rocket can make money. 57:23.920 --> 57:30.720 Whereas Dolomite runs Freaknik, last year they made about $20, and they went out and bought a case of beer with it. 57:30.720 --> 57:35.640 Like, they run it, they actually have a nonprofit set up. 57:37.360 --> 57:45.540 And so with Freaknik, it's very much, they're not about making money, they're about making costs. 57:45.940 --> 57:47.160 They're about covering their expenses. 57:47.640 --> 57:49.880 And once they've done covering their expenses, everything's go. 57:50.020 --> 57:53.420 So the videos, everything for Freaknik, the audio, everything will be free. 57:53.860 --> 57:55.440 And check out the Freaknik website. 57:55.860 --> 57:58.120 Those will probably be coming up in the next couple of days. 57:58.540 --> 57:58.940 Cool. 57:59.080 --> 57:59.700 Very cool. 57:59.700 --> 58:01.320 And you know what, I did not know that. 58:01.380 --> 58:06.780 I have a lot more respect for, not that I didn't have it before for Dolomite, but that's a very cool thing to do. 58:07.200 --> 58:09.700 Yeah, I mean, that is the thing to remember. 58:09.840 --> 58:14.860 I mean, I know you and I have differencing opinions of how effective the con was as a whole. 58:15.800 --> 58:21.060 But it is good to know that it is run as a nonprofit, and so they put a little less money in. 58:21.400 --> 58:23.420 Or, not less money, I don't want to say that. 58:23.500 --> 58:24.180 It sounds bad. 58:24.180 --> 58:32.300 It's just, when you think that these are people entirely volunteering their time and really getting nothing but the experience of it out. 58:32.520 --> 58:33.940 Well, come on, I'm talking to you. 58:34.000 --> 58:34.920 You do the radio show. 58:35.060 --> 58:36.120 You do the magazine. 58:36.440 --> 58:42.460 I mean, you guys are, at least with the radio show, I mean, you're not getting anything out of this other than the joy of helping people learn. 58:42.460 --> 58:44.920 And that's really what the people up in Nashville are about. 58:45.980 --> 58:48.160 And learning myself at the same time. 58:48.560 --> 58:50.280 Yeah, and learning yourself, too. 58:51.860 --> 58:57.220 As an interesting side note, so I'm talking, good Lord, I'm speaking great English tonight. 58:57.940 --> 58:59.020 I blame the throat. 59:00.340 --> 59:03.900 They actually had an excellent thing for speakers. 59:04.480 --> 59:10.400 They gave us these padded laptop backpacks. 59:10.420 --> 59:11.660 Yeah, those were nice. 59:11.660 --> 59:16.960 And they had Freaknik embroidered on them and also your handle on them. 59:16.980 --> 59:18.440 And they gave those to all the speakers. 59:18.800 --> 59:24.880 And, you know, I'm happy if I even get a free hotel room out of, you know, or just a place to sleep. 59:25.000 --> 59:26.500 I don't even need to have my own room. 59:26.780 --> 59:30.560 You know, a place to sleep provided by the people organizing the conferences. 59:31.060 --> 59:32.180 Well, we put you on the floor. 59:32.840 --> 59:33.100 Yeah. 59:33.960 --> 59:35.120 Hey, no, that was fine. 59:35.160 --> 59:38.300 But, I mean, typically, this is the first time someone's done that. 59:38.300 --> 59:43.960 I mean, even, like, you know, Hope, they really didn't do anything for me other than let me into the comm for free. 59:44.180 --> 59:44.380 Right. 59:44.380 --> 59:45.100 Which, of course, was nice. 59:45.240 --> 59:45.640 Right, same with me. 59:45.640 --> 59:47.660 I'm not trying to sound, you know, unhappy. 59:47.820 --> 59:50.840 But it's just this was really unexpected and very appreciated. 59:50.840 --> 59:52.740 Yeah, this was above and beyond is what you're saying. 59:53.160 --> 59:53.520 Exactly. 59:54.300 --> 59:54.560 Yeah. 59:54.580 --> 59:56.320 Oh, yeah, I thought that was very cool. 59:56.700 --> 01:00:00.300 And now they actually had those backpacks for sale without, you know, custom names. 01:00:00.380 --> 01:00:04.720 They had the general ones for sale as well for the attendees, which was really cool as well. 01:00:04.820 --> 01:00:08.980 I don't know how many of them they had or anything like that, but I thought that was kind of cool. 01:00:09.460 --> 01:00:15.940 They had, I think they did a run of about, I think they said they did a run of 75, including the speakers, and they sold them all out. 01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:16.720 Really? 01:00:16.900 --> 01:00:17.240 Wow. 01:00:17.420 --> 01:00:18.400 Yeah, they did pretty well. 01:00:18.560 --> 01:00:19.040 Very cool. 01:00:19.300 --> 01:00:19.780 Very cool. 01:00:19.780 --> 01:00:25.460 Now, after you, no disrespect, but I just wasn't interested. 01:00:25.600 --> 01:00:34.920 The next presentation was on Robert Heinlein, the author, science fiction author, and just really wasn't, just didn't interest me. 01:00:35.040 --> 01:00:38.380 I'm just not into Robert Heinlein, so I skipped that one. 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:46.280 And unfortunately, I got sidetracked because of that and missed Johnny Christmas. 01:00:47.140 --> 01:00:48.220 Oh, yeah, I know. 01:00:48.220 --> 01:00:50.100 I only caught the tail end of his speech. 01:00:50.220 --> 01:00:55.000 Yeah, and I came in, I came back in time to see Decius' rant at the end. 01:00:55.940 --> 01:00:58.340 So I came back in time for that, but I missed Johnny Christmas. 01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.580 And honestly, I did not know Johnny Christmas beforehand. 01:01:02.160 --> 01:01:04.300 I met him actually, was it Saturday? 01:01:05.100 --> 01:01:05.360 Yes. 01:01:05.600 --> 01:01:07.100 Saturday, when he was getting ready to leave. 01:01:07.100 --> 01:01:12.100 And he's one of the people that I wish I had spent more time and talked to there, which there were a lot of people like that. 01:01:14.100 --> 01:01:14.500 So... 01:01:14.500 --> 01:01:14.920 Wait a minute. 01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:22.200 I'm going to have to interrupt you because you really started to break up really bad there. 01:01:22.680 --> 01:01:22.900 Okay. 01:01:23.040 --> 01:01:27.060 I don't know what's breaking down on your end, but it's real bad. 01:01:27.060 --> 01:01:35.820 But I was basically saying that Johnny Christmas, when he was on his way out, and I'm filling for time hoping that you'd go back to sitting wherever you were sitting before you moved. 01:01:36.200 --> 01:01:36.720 Is that better? 01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:38.020 Yeah, oh, that's much better. 01:01:38.300 --> 01:01:38.600 Okay. 01:01:39.500 --> 01:01:43.180 The little pull cord on the bottom of the battery was, like, coming out. 01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:45.320 Oh, that's good radio. 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.920 But yeah, Johnny Christmas, we met Saturday, unfortunately, on his way out. 01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:51.600 And he's one of the people, him and Virgil. 01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:54.920 I spoke to Virgil in the parking lot and said, you know, I wish we had spent more time. 01:01:54.940 --> 01:01:57.140 We just didn't cross each other, unfortunately. 01:01:57.500 --> 01:02:00.040 And, you know, it was a couple of the people I wanted to sit down and speak with. 01:02:00.500 --> 01:02:06.640 So shouts to both of those, Virgil and Johnny Christmas, who, when we did speak, I thought he was a really cool guy. 01:02:06.640 --> 01:02:15.260 Yes, and I actually was lucky enough to meet Johnny Christmas after my talk up at Hope, and was nothing but impressed, and was really happy to see him again. 01:02:16.260 --> 01:02:17.840 And, you know, you and I were talking before the show. 01:02:18.080 --> 01:02:25.780 The thing that, the cons are great, because they get everyone together, but the things that suck are you never have enough time to spend. 01:02:26.120 --> 01:02:26.420 Right. 01:02:26.580 --> 01:02:30.160 You absolutely never have enough time to hang out with all the people you want to. 01:02:30.980 --> 01:02:31.380 Right. 01:02:31.860 --> 01:02:32.260 Absolutely. 01:02:32.260 --> 01:02:37.100 And I've also met him at Hope, but it was just simply an introduction. 01:02:37.740 --> 01:02:38.240 Ah, gotcha. 01:02:38.240 --> 01:02:38.820 And that was it. 01:02:38.860 --> 01:02:40.780 It was that quick, so I really didn't. 01:02:41.100 --> 01:02:45.980 So seeing him again was like, it gave us a chance to, you know, at least speak a little bit to each other. 01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:46.760 Mm-hmm. 01:02:47.100 --> 01:02:51.500 And then, of course, Desi is ending with a rant, and, you know, Desi is a great guy. 01:02:51.800 --> 01:02:55.360 You know, he was really nice, and to meet him, it's the first time I'd met him in person. 01:02:55.460 --> 01:02:57.340 We'd spoken on the phone a few times and emailed. 01:02:57.740 --> 01:02:59.020 First time I met him in person. 01:02:59.020 --> 01:03:05.560 And after we got him stuck out of the door, he's going to kill me for that one, isn't he? 01:03:05.980 --> 01:03:11.840 Yeah, nobody knows, Desi is tall, and we're always kind of poking fun at him for it. 01:03:11.900 --> 01:03:13.920 Yeah, he's a tall guy. 01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:14.820 That was a tall joke. 01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:23.640 But, no, it was really cool to meet him face-to-face, and he was a very, very down-to-earth, very real guy, and I liked that he was very cool about it. 01:03:23.640 --> 01:03:27.600 And that was the end of night one. 01:03:29.100 --> 01:03:31.120 Now, here's when the night, here's when the conference went. 01:03:31.120 --> 01:03:32.920 End of the speeches of night one. 01:03:32.980 --> 01:03:34.360 Yeah, end of the speeches. 01:03:34.500 --> 01:03:37.340 And this is where Freak Nick took a turn for the worse, for me. 01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:38.040 Mm-hmm. 01:03:38.100 --> 01:03:38.640 For me. 01:03:38.640 --> 01:03:45.780 Now, I still, actually, not quite yet. 01:03:46.180 --> 01:03:47.880 We went, and you and I hung out. 01:03:47.980 --> 01:03:49.100 I went and hung out with Droop. 01:03:49.140 --> 01:03:52.380 By the way, I spent a lot of time hanging out with Droop to make a sweet love down by the fire. 01:03:53.460 --> 01:03:54.080 Well, of course. 01:03:54.200 --> 01:03:55.360 So, shouts to him. 01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:57.640 But hanging out with a bunch of the guys. 01:03:57.720 --> 01:03:58.840 We went to downtown Nashville. 01:03:59.140 --> 01:04:00.340 Everything there was fine. 01:04:00.860 --> 01:04:01.120 Mm-hmm. 01:04:01.120 --> 01:04:04.380 The problem happened that night when I tried to go to sleep. 01:04:05.080 --> 01:04:05.200 Yeah. 01:04:08.380 --> 01:04:13.260 It was, well, actually, you got caught up in this drama a little bit because you came looking for us. 01:04:13.340 --> 01:04:16.560 You were sleeping on the floor in my hotel room. 01:04:17.020 --> 01:04:17.300 Yes. 01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:19.500 Well, you were going to the first night. 01:04:19.560 --> 01:04:19.860 You didn't. 01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:24.760 You ended up having to find somewhere else, which was another story in and of itself we won't touch. 01:04:25.220 --> 01:04:25.580 Exactly. 01:04:25.940 --> 01:04:30.240 But I didn't get back to the hotel room until, like, 3 a.m. 01:04:30.240 --> 01:04:34.120 I guess you stopped by at about 2.30 looking for us, and we were still out. 01:04:35.100 --> 01:04:37.440 And I guess you didn't get my message on the phone or whatever. 01:04:37.580 --> 01:04:39.280 But, anyway, we figured all that out. 01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:45.160 But, well, I'm going to give the short version because we are running a little bit on time, 01:04:45.220 --> 01:04:47.300 and I do not want to drag this into two episodes. 01:04:47.760 --> 01:04:47.960 Yeah. 01:04:48.040 --> 01:04:49.980 We've got a little time, but I'm not going to rush. 01:04:50.120 --> 01:04:52.300 But the short version is I got sick. 01:04:52.900 --> 01:04:53.220 Yep. 01:04:53.220 --> 01:04:56.980 I got sick, and I just could not sleep. 01:04:57.940 --> 01:04:58.020 Yeah. 01:04:58.020 --> 01:04:59.860 I just couldn't sleep for anything. 01:04:59.860 --> 01:05:05.380 I mean, my hacker's insomnia kicked in on me, and I just was miserable the whole night. 01:05:05.520 --> 01:05:07.220 I woke up sick that next morning. 01:05:07.820 --> 01:05:10.580 There were people, and we joked about this earlier, there were people out in the hallway. 01:05:10.820 --> 01:05:11.840 And let me back up. 01:05:11.900 --> 01:05:18.820 I know maybe I'm turning into a bitter old man or something, but I need my sleep. 01:05:19.500 --> 01:05:20.060 You know? 01:05:20.520 --> 01:05:21.520 It's that simple. 01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:22.740 I need my sleep. 01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:23.160 I don't mind. 01:05:23.160 --> 01:05:24.880 I was up until 3 o'clock partying, too. 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:28.680 But I was doing it in downtown Nashville or outside. 01:05:29.160 --> 01:05:29.400 Yep. 01:05:29.580 --> 01:05:34.960 You know, there's a first floor where they had a game area set up, a gaming area, and some booths set up, 01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:37.060 and a general hangout and snacks area. 01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:40.740 And then there was the ninth floor where there was open air, and that's where the presentations were, 01:05:40.740 --> 01:05:43.860 and they had music and stuff playing and anime. 01:05:44.640 --> 01:05:45.940 Those are the places to hang out. 01:05:46.020 --> 01:05:50.880 But for some reason, 20 people or so decided to hang out in the sixth floor lobby. 01:05:51.400 --> 01:05:51.800 Yeah. 01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:55.420 And talk and argue all night long at the top of their voices. 01:05:56.700 --> 01:05:59.440 And I just... 01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:01.940 I guess I'm just an old man. 01:06:02.060 --> 01:06:03.280 I just could not sleep. 01:06:03.840 --> 01:06:05.640 No, I mean, that's... 01:06:05.640 --> 01:06:09.700 And the damn door, they put me in a hotel room right next to the freaking stairwell. 01:06:10.120 --> 01:06:11.000 Exit door, yeah. 01:06:11.120 --> 01:06:15.320 And it kept slamming, and I know Desius feels me on this, because it kept waking them up also, 01:06:15.380 --> 01:06:16.380 and they were two doors down. 01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:17.000 Yeah. 01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:18.560 It was right outside my door. 01:06:18.620 --> 01:06:22.460 And we stuffed towels in the side to stop it, and I don't know, somebody took them out. 01:06:23.140 --> 01:06:23.460 Mm-hmm. 01:06:23.680 --> 01:06:27.920 So that, I just, every time I drift off to sleep, I'd get maybe ten minutes of sleep, 01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:32.640 and then I'd be woken up by one of the aforementioned disturbances. 01:06:32.900 --> 01:06:37.160 And then I'd spend another 45 minutes getting back to sleep for 10 or 15 minutes. 01:06:37.220 --> 01:06:38.280 Then I'd get woken up again. 01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:39.620 Oh, man. 01:06:39.700 --> 01:06:41.080 So I was miserable. 01:06:42.140 --> 01:06:42.540 Miserable. 01:06:43.240 --> 01:06:43.580 Mm-hmm. 01:06:45.440 --> 01:06:48.580 So that's when the congoate started going down hill. 01:06:48.620 --> 01:06:51.860 I can't really blame the organizers or anything for that. 01:06:51.940 --> 01:06:54.360 I just wish people had been a little bit more courteous. 01:06:55.020 --> 01:06:55.240 Mm-hmm. 01:06:55.580 --> 01:06:55.900 Yeah. 01:06:55.900 --> 01:06:58.620 But, hey, what are you going to do? 01:06:59.440 --> 01:06:59.800 Exactly. 01:07:00.220 --> 01:07:04.400 So because of that, unfortunately, the next morning, I really wanted, 01:07:04.500 --> 01:07:09.000 one of the other presentations I wanted to go to was the Asterisk presentation, 01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:11.780 which was first thing in the morning, and it was from Mark Spencer, 01:07:12.020 --> 01:07:13.720 which is the developer of Asterisk. 01:07:14.100 --> 01:07:14.420 Yes. 01:07:14.600 --> 01:07:16.120 Now, I don't know much about it. 01:07:16.160 --> 01:07:17.420 I know how cool it is. 01:07:17.780 --> 01:07:20.760 I know about what it does, but I don't know about the details, 01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:22.620 the tech aspect of the thing. 01:07:22.620 --> 01:07:26.140 And I thought this might be a good way to find out about it. 01:07:26.180 --> 01:07:27.060 It actually wasn't. 01:07:27.100 --> 01:07:31.400 It was actually more about a new protocol that they're developing, Dundee, 01:07:31.540 --> 01:07:32.860 new protocol for Asterisk. 01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:38.640 But I woke myself up in the morning to go see that. 01:07:38.640 --> 01:07:42.000 And, actually, you and I were sitting there, and, I mean, I don't know. 01:07:42.060 --> 01:07:45.040 I must have just been so out of it, about to pass out. 01:07:45.720 --> 01:07:49.280 And I went back downstairs and went back to bed after that. 01:07:49.580 --> 01:07:51.820 So I missed pretty much – well, not pretty much. 01:07:51.860 --> 01:07:53.980 I missed everything Saturday. 01:07:54.640 --> 01:07:54.940 Oh. 01:07:54.940 --> 01:07:58.920 I missed every presentation, so I can't really say too much about these. 01:07:59.040 --> 01:08:00.780 Did you catch any of these? 01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:05.700 Again, Johnny Christmas co-presented with Aesthetics on Crafting and Crafting. 01:08:05.700 --> 01:08:06.460 That was a good talk. 01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:08.060 I missed it. 01:08:08.600 --> 01:08:09.100 Darn it. 01:08:12.240 --> 01:08:16.160 I'm not a big gaming person, but I did kind of want to see – 01:08:16.160 --> 01:08:18.380 I hope I'm pronouncing it – Wolfus or Woofus? 01:08:18.380 --> 01:08:20.860 Woofus was doing a phenomenal job. 01:08:20.860 --> 01:08:22.300 Oh, see, I missed that one. 01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:25.020 That is one I wanted to see as well, and I missed it. 01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:28.680 So hopefully the videos will be – the videos will put up soon. 01:08:29.260 --> 01:08:29.580 Right. 01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:33.100 And I basically went back and tried to sleep again. 01:08:33.200 --> 01:08:35.940 I still went through the same thing 15 minutes at a time. 01:08:36.620 --> 01:08:39.520 People kept coming back to the room, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 01:08:40.520 --> 01:08:43.800 And I woke up at, like, about 5, 5 o'clock that afternoon 01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:49.660 and kind of hung out with you and Rattle and a bunch of people. 01:08:49.660 --> 01:08:51.220 Got some pizza. 01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:51.920 Yeah. 01:08:52.160 --> 01:08:54.380 Went out and – oh, yeah, we left out. 01:08:54.420 --> 01:08:55.460 We went to that taco place. 01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:56.100 When was that? 01:08:56.680 --> 01:09:00.180 Taco place was Friday night? 01:09:00.200 --> 01:09:00.820 Was it Friday night? 01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:01.140 Yeah. 01:09:01.580 --> 01:09:01.860 Yeah. 01:09:01.860 --> 01:09:02.840 Friday night after the – 01:09:02.840 --> 01:09:07.500 An Antonio Taco Company in Nashville, Tennessee, right by Vanderbilt. 01:09:07.640 --> 01:09:08.860 It's freaking incredible. 01:09:09.140 --> 01:09:10.480 Yeah, that was very cool. 01:09:10.680 --> 01:09:15.220 I like that place a lot, and I'm not big on that type of food either. 01:09:15.620 --> 01:09:15.980 Yeah. 01:09:15.980 --> 01:09:19.080 But that was just a cool place to hang out and talk. 01:09:19.080 --> 01:09:22.140 And that was really – that was one of the highlights of the weekend for me. 01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:25.040 Was just – see, I like to just hang out and talk. 01:09:25.140 --> 01:09:28.200 And like I said, I go to this to learn and to listen. 01:09:28.680 --> 01:09:32.860 And if I have something to say, hopefully someone else can learn or listen to what I – 01:09:32.860 --> 01:09:34.340 you know, if I have something to say about it. 01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:37.500 But mostly I go to listen to other people and meet and discuss things. 01:09:37.500 --> 01:09:46.260 And I had better times with hanging out with you and Rattle and Decius and everybody, I mean, from Atlanta. 01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:48.260 I mean, you're really lucky. 01:09:48.380 --> 01:09:51.660 You've got a lot of guys down there that are really cool and that know their stuff. 01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:56.640 And I had a better time hanging out with you guys, whether it was at the taco place or in the hotel room, 01:09:56.700 --> 01:10:00.180 which we hung out at several different places and et cetera, et cetera. 01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:03.240 That is what salvaged the conference for me. 01:10:03.740 --> 01:10:04.600 It really was. 01:10:05.540 --> 01:10:08.320 So definitely, again, shout-outs to the ATL. 01:10:08.840 --> 01:10:15.980 This is Acidus' view on these smaller cons like Freaknik and InnerZone. 01:10:15.980 --> 01:10:23.640 I mean, you're not going to see, you know, the demonstration of an incredibly new exploit. 01:10:24.060 --> 01:10:32.560 You're not going to see some revolutionary new nifty, phenomenal, you know, like BitTorrent-esque thing. 01:10:33.260 --> 01:10:34.340 I mean, there's a chance. 01:10:34.460 --> 01:10:36.560 But, I mean, probabilities are extremely low. 01:10:38.320 --> 01:10:43.160 Those are – you're going to, you know, have a conference, you know, like Black Hat, which precedes DEFCON. 01:10:43.160 --> 01:10:46.240 And, you know, you're going to pay a couple hundred dollars for the privilege. 01:10:47.280 --> 01:10:52.680 These smaller cons really are, you know, like, for example, Freaknik's only single-tracked speakers. 01:10:54.620 --> 01:10:59.140 They might as well – they're going to be giving talks about stuff you probably haven't heard before. 01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:02.760 But, you know, you probably have also heard of some of it. 01:11:03.260 --> 01:11:04.380 They're going to be talking. 01:11:05.120 --> 01:11:07.460 They're not going to go into an extreme amount of detail. 01:11:07.580 --> 01:11:11.660 It's not going to be horribly technical because, you know, only the most – 01:11:11.660 --> 01:11:15.060 I mean, there comes a point where if I want to do really hardcore network stuff, 01:11:15.140 --> 01:11:21.640 I'm going to go present this at a conference where, you know, it's a conference for hardcore, you know, network stuff. 01:11:21.740 --> 01:11:27.780 Because then I can spend a lot more time focusing on what's really cool instead of trying to ramp everybody up to understanding it. 01:11:28.240 --> 01:11:29.880 You don't want to speak over somebody's head. 01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:36.360 I mean, these conferences, they're basically – the talks are all conversation starters. 01:11:36.360 --> 01:11:38.840 They are, you know, hi, I'm after this. 01:11:38.940 --> 01:11:43.800 I'm working on some – I'm working on some spyware stuff, on cracking spyware. 01:11:44.540 --> 01:11:47.400 You know, I'm also working on the Stripe Snoop stuff. 01:11:47.660 --> 01:11:53.200 Hey, you know, not only is this just spyware, but here's just some interesting ways to go about reverse engineering a file format. 01:11:53.340 --> 01:11:55.840 If you've ever been interested, here's kind of the steps I took. 01:11:55.900 --> 01:11:56.720 Okay, this is neat. 01:11:56.920 --> 01:11:58.640 You know, I'm going to be hanging out, catching some dinner. 01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:06.400 I'm going to be chilling up here on the night floor, you know, sitting outside, probably drinking a beer with Desi and, you know, please feel free to come talk to me. 01:12:06.620 --> 01:12:08.960 I mean, they really are, hi, let me introduce myself. 01:12:09.100 --> 01:12:10.040 This is what I'm working on. 01:12:10.280 --> 01:12:14.340 I mean, that's how you got to really realize what Johnny Xmas – or Johnny Christmas was involved with. 01:12:14.620 --> 01:12:16.100 So you get to talk a little bit with him. 01:12:16.540 --> 01:12:22.380 I mean, so for me, the conference was a success because I didn't come for the speaking track. 01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:23.740 I came for the people. 01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:26.360 I know we don't want to be negative. 01:12:26.360 --> 01:12:37.620 I'm not trying to be negative, but an example of this is one of the talks was on IPv6 and deploying IPv6 in a ISP kind of network center. 01:12:38.160 --> 01:12:43.400 And, you know, I can go online and I can read the RFC for IPv6, and actually I have several times, 01:12:43.780 --> 01:12:48.460 and I can go online and kind of find some of these stories of, you know, the migration. 01:12:48.860 --> 01:12:53.000 You know, in fact, Red Hat even has a migration guide from IPv4 to IPv6. 01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:58.880 So that talk wouldn't necessarily interest me, but at least I now know – I forget who gave that talk, 01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:04.800 but at least now I know, hey, here's someone who's involved in, you know, giant network centers, ISPs. 01:13:05.120 --> 01:13:09.600 They probably know a lot about, you know, configuring gateways, BGP, routing protocols. 01:13:10.140 --> 01:13:10.820 They're here. 01:13:10.920 --> 01:13:12.060 They're talking about this. 01:13:13.160 --> 01:13:16.580 I should go talk to him about, you know, XYZ project. 01:13:16.580 --> 01:13:18.220 I've been working on that and involve this. 01:13:18.740 --> 01:13:27.180 So his talk wasn't so much as important as I now have, you know, a name, a face, and an interest all to associate. 01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:34.840 So for me, the conversation was – or the call was a big success because I met about six or seven more people 01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:40.120 who are working on stuff basically similar, if not identical to stuff I'm doing. 01:13:40.840 --> 01:13:42.100 And I've already sent some emails. 01:13:42.220 --> 01:13:43.320 We're going to be doing some collaboration. 01:13:44.500 --> 01:13:48.740 And I got to sit back and, you know, see people I hadn't seen in about six months 01:13:48.740 --> 01:13:51.300 and have a beer with them and find out what they've been up to. 01:13:51.940 --> 01:13:53.360 Yeah, and then that again. 01:13:53.600 --> 01:13:58.760 And if I would have gone into it with that attitude, expecting that, I probably would have had a more enjoyable time. 01:13:59.120 --> 01:13:59.320 Yeah. 01:13:59.320 --> 01:14:03.960 But I go into all the conferences with the attitude of learning from the speaking tracks. 01:14:04.460 --> 01:14:04.780 Right. 01:14:04.860 --> 01:14:07.760 And I did somewhat, but just not as much as I had hoped. 01:14:07.940 --> 01:14:10.780 It wasn't – this was more of a party con. 01:14:11.300 --> 01:14:11.580 Right. 01:14:11.700 --> 01:14:14.780 You know, there were a lot of people there that were just there for the party and the drinking. 01:14:14.900 --> 01:14:17.160 People were walking in the front door of the hotel with cases of beer. 01:14:17.820 --> 01:14:18.100 Yes. 01:14:18.240 --> 01:14:20.960 You know, to me, the beer is – I don't have a problem with it. 01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:22.620 It just seems secondary to me. 01:14:23.080 --> 01:14:23.340 Yeah. 01:14:23.340 --> 01:14:28.220 After the talks are over, which is at, let's see, 8 o'clock at night about, somewhere around there, 01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:29.700 then you go get the beer. 01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:30.480 That's great. 01:14:31.340 --> 01:14:36.100 But somehow it seemed like the beer was first and the talks and everything else was second. 01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:37.240 Mm-hmm. 01:14:37.360 --> 01:14:37.600 Okay. 01:14:37.800 --> 01:14:38.600 Well, anyway. 01:14:38.780 --> 01:14:39.760 It's a – 01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:40.780 I know now. 01:14:40.940 --> 01:14:47.240 So next time, if there is a next time for me, which I don't know, I'm leaning towards no, 01:14:47.240 --> 01:14:49.940 but if there is a next time for me, I'll go into it with that expectation. 01:14:50.620 --> 01:14:50.880 Mm-hmm. 01:14:51.160 --> 01:14:52.200 And, you know, ahead of time. 01:14:52.200 --> 01:14:56.660 But I don't – the reason I say I don't know there is because I don't know if it's worth, you know, 01:14:57.420 --> 01:15:04.100 basically after all said and done, renting a car, airfare, hotel, we're talking $500 trip to a party. 01:15:04.400 --> 01:15:05.560 I can do that in Fort Lauderdale. 01:15:05.660 --> 01:15:06.560 I can do that in Miami. 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:07.600 That's true. 01:15:07.780 --> 01:15:08.240 That's true. 01:15:08.380 --> 01:15:11.980 But it's also the, you know, the people you'll meet. 01:15:12.120 --> 01:15:16.680 I mean, yeah, it's laying back and relaxing, but it's like, you know, some of these – 01:15:16.680 --> 01:15:21.640 for example, Johnny Christmas, prime example, you know, he's in Chicago. 01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:23.560 You know, when the hell am I going to see him? 01:15:24.160 --> 01:15:26.260 You know, I see him once or twice a year at conferences. 01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:27.080 Right. 01:15:27.080 --> 01:15:30.480 Now, granted, for you, yeah, it's a longer way to travel. 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:33.860 I mean, you're way down there, you know, towards the southern end of Florida. 01:15:34.080 --> 01:15:34.300 Right. 01:15:34.300 --> 01:15:36.020 For me, it's a four-hour drive. 01:15:36.480 --> 01:15:41.380 I normally crash on somebody's floor, you know, and normally take them out to dinner or something. 01:15:42.040 --> 01:15:47.320 So, for me, it only cost me about $100 with gas to go to the con. 01:15:47.860 --> 01:15:52.960 Well, when you crashed on my floor, all I got was sweet, sweet love and down by the fire. 01:15:53.220 --> 01:15:54.420 Sweet love and down by the fire? 01:15:54.500 --> 01:15:54.800 Well, I – 01:15:54.800 --> 01:15:55.760 I didn't even get dinner. 01:15:56.360 --> 01:15:56.720 Twice? 01:15:56.960 --> 01:15:58.260 I mean, I'll tell you what. 01:15:58.340 --> 01:15:59.860 I owe you, I owe you a nice dinner. 01:16:00.240 --> 01:16:01.360 I'm just messing with you. 01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:02.200 Okay. 01:16:02.780 --> 01:16:05.140 Everybody made sweet, sweet love down by the fire at Defcon. 01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:06.340 I mean, at Freaknik. 01:16:06.400 --> 01:16:06.620 Oops. 01:16:07.040 --> 01:16:07.560 Freaknik up. 01:16:07.700 --> 01:16:08.040 That's my area. 01:16:08.040 --> 01:16:08.840 And actually, you know what? 01:16:09.200 --> 01:16:11.900 Defcon's a slip-up, but that probably will be the next con I go to. 01:16:11.900 --> 01:16:17.240 Well, Inner Zones in the spring, I don't know if I – I guess I'll worry about that when the time comes. 01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:19.460 I don't know what's going to go in the future. 01:16:19.640 --> 01:16:28.020 But, yeah, all in all, I guess basically what I'm saying is I wasn't impressed too much with the actual content of the presentations and the – some of them were exceptions. 01:16:28.140 --> 01:16:35.800 Like I said, don't get me wrong, but the overall content of the presentations and the organization of the whole thing was more laid back than I was expecting. 01:16:35.800 --> 01:16:43.520 I very much enjoyed Hope because it seemed like they took it professionally and treated the speakers professionally. 01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:45.980 And they didn't buy a nice backpack, which this was cool. 01:16:46.080 --> 01:16:47.480 They could have done something like that. 01:16:48.120 --> 01:16:57.780 But I felt comfortable and confident that the videotaping and the microphones, they put time into setting up the stage and putting the chairs out there and putting all – 01:16:57.780 --> 01:16:59.200 And all the nice red banners. 01:16:59.420 --> 01:17:01.620 Well, yeah, that crossed an extra line. 01:17:01.700 --> 01:17:02.920 That was my big thing with that. 01:17:03.020 --> 01:17:04.380 I mean, I've always got something. 01:17:04.380 --> 01:17:06.060 I mean, I can't say everything's perfect. 01:17:06.180 --> 01:17:07.780 There's always some issues I have, I guess. 01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:08.700 No, I hear you. 01:17:08.820 --> 01:17:13.960 So, hey, I try to say good things to go along with the bad things. 01:17:14.020 --> 01:17:16.420 I could sit here and say that Freaknik sucked, but I'm not saying that. 01:17:16.480 --> 01:17:19.800 There were things about Freaknik I liked, but there were also things I didn't like. 01:17:19.840 --> 01:17:22.520 So I know I'm going to probably get some hate mail about it, but – 01:17:22.520 --> 01:17:24.880 Oh, you know, it's different strokes for different folks. 01:17:24.980 --> 01:17:30.500 And, you know, hey, you've got your opinion, I've got mine, but, I mean, I know we're still going to be hanging out with cons, so what's it matter? 01:17:30.860 --> 01:17:33.100 Did you just say pish posh on my radio show? 01:17:33.100 --> 01:17:35.380 I did just say pish posh on your radio show. 01:17:35.380 --> 01:17:37.340 I am so totally ending this show right now. 01:17:37.820 --> 01:17:42.920 No, actually, no, there's one more complaint I have, and that is just the hotel in general. 01:17:43.340 --> 01:17:44.900 Oh, my God, this hotel was – 01:17:44.900 --> 01:17:46.040 That was the most – 01:17:46.040 --> 01:17:49.120 People need to understand, this hotel is kind of in the ghetto. 01:17:50.060 --> 01:17:50.580 Kind of. 01:17:51.220 --> 01:17:51.700 Kind of. 01:17:51.700 --> 01:17:52.400 There were prostitutes. 01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:59.980 It's near the football stadium, and, like, literally, like, one of the fun things to do on the ninth floor, which was the penthouse, 01:18:00.040 --> 01:18:04.640 there were two big, giant balconies, is people were sitting up there, you know, drinking, smoking, whatever, 01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:07.060 and just playing, you know, spot the prostitutes. 01:18:07.360 --> 01:18:09.960 And, you know, count how many times, how many different cars they went in, 01:18:09.960 --> 01:18:12.940 and then how they ran into the bushes when the cop car drove by. 01:18:13.060 --> 01:18:15.060 I mean, this was not a good part of town. 01:18:15.280 --> 01:18:22.840 Yeah, and, like, Natus, Lucky 2 to 5 and Natus told me a story that they were right out in front of the hotel, literally, 01:18:23.380 --> 01:18:29.440 and a big 18-wheel truck pulled over, and some woman walked up to the truck, and sure enough, hopped right on in. 01:18:29.440 --> 01:18:34.120 Dude, that happened last, that exact thing happened to me. 01:18:34.240 --> 01:18:40.540 I was walking to a gas station, and there was a truck that was, like, making, he kind of came up along, you know, my, 01:18:40.700 --> 01:18:44.060 I was walking with the flow of traffic, so he came up kind of from behind me. 01:18:44.180 --> 01:18:46.880 I was going to make a right turn kind of in front of me. 01:18:46.980 --> 01:18:52.000 I was walking across kind of like the entrance to a driveway, and so I kind of stopped, and he goes ahead and waves me forward. 01:18:52.160 --> 01:18:54.500 I'm like, oh, that was nice, and continued walking to the gas station. 01:18:54.500 --> 01:18:59.420 And, well, I got back to the hotel and found out from Decius, and I'm like, he goes, you know that semi? 01:18:59.940 --> 01:19:00.660 I'm like, yeah. 01:19:00.740 --> 01:19:02.680 He's like, he wasn't being nice and letting you cough. 01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:05.700 He was waiting for the prostitute to finish getting in his car. 01:19:09.020 --> 01:19:15.120 Yeah, so basically it was a nice part of town, and that's, again, again goes back to my lack of sleep. 01:19:15.200 --> 01:19:18.000 There was a train that pulled in at 2 o'clock in the morning every morning. 01:19:18.460 --> 01:19:19.000 Oh, man. 01:19:19.040 --> 01:19:20.080 And parked over there. 01:19:20.160 --> 01:19:21.520 There was planes going overhead. 01:19:21.520 --> 01:19:24.500 There was, oh, it was just a ghetto hotel. 01:19:24.900 --> 01:19:28.560 And every single floor on there, there was something that was unfinished. 01:19:29.200 --> 01:19:29.340 Yeah. 01:19:29.480 --> 01:19:30.060 Whose room? 01:19:30.060 --> 01:19:32.180 There was a process of, like, renovating it for fire. 01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:33.400 That should give you an idea. 01:19:33.500 --> 01:19:37.120 They didn't even have fire sprinklers in all the rooms. 01:19:37.300 --> 01:19:40.200 The ceilings were missing out of half of the rooms. 01:19:40.440 --> 01:19:43.360 There was, they were not in the process of renovating. 01:19:43.500 --> 01:19:46.780 They were in the process of renovating, but they were in year five. 01:19:47.260 --> 01:19:47.560 Yeah. 01:19:47.680 --> 01:19:48.300 They just hadn't. 01:19:48.300 --> 01:19:50.240 Actually, it did not look that bad last year. 01:19:50.240 --> 01:19:50.820 It did not? 01:19:50.820 --> 01:19:51.900 No, it did not look that bad. 01:19:51.900 --> 01:19:52.940 I'll take your word for that, then. 01:19:53.060 --> 01:19:56.040 And again, of course, I probably would have burned to death because they didn't have fire 01:19:56.040 --> 01:19:56.200 insurance. 01:19:56.780 --> 01:20:00.480 So I'm pretty happy that, you know, it's got, they got those now. 01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:02.340 Fire protection is good things. 01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:06.000 But, you know, we really should end on the positive note and say, you know, hey, I was 01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:08.740 really happy to see Johnny Christmas again. 01:20:09.020 --> 01:20:14.380 It was really great to meet Lucky after reading, you know, his articles in 2600 and seeing, 01:20:14.380 --> 01:20:16.000 you know, hearing him on BinRev. 01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:20.540 And I had a fantastic time, you know, heading out with you. 01:20:20.680 --> 01:20:22.640 I mean, that, that you didn't even see it. 01:20:22.640 --> 01:20:28.040 We went out to San Antonio Taco Company again on, God, what was it? 01:20:28.180 --> 01:20:28.500 Sunday. 01:20:28.700 --> 01:20:31.480 Sunday when the calm was kind of going down and you guys went geocaching. 01:20:31.880 --> 01:20:34.220 And there were, we had like 24, 25 people. 01:20:34.340 --> 01:20:35.640 We just took up the entire patio. 01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:36.100 Yeah. 01:20:36.100 --> 01:20:40.860 Uh, so it was great just kind of relaxing with all these different people and, you 01:20:40.860 --> 01:20:45.320 know, to see Sayot and Strick and Virgil and, you know, to see you coming up. 01:20:45.360 --> 01:20:46.640 I mean, I haven't seen you since Hope. 01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:50.740 So all in all, I, I was glad and happy to be with everybody. 01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:51.120 Yeah. 01:20:51.240 --> 01:20:51.480 Yeah. 01:20:51.480 --> 01:20:53.660 I, I definitely enjoyed that aspect of it. 01:20:53.680 --> 01:20:57.060 And yeah, Sunday, I think Lucky had to leave at like 2.30 that afternoon. 01:20:57.220 --> 01:20:58.540 Addis had left early in the morning. 01:20:58.600 --> 01:20:59.600 I don't think he even slept. 01:21:00.200 --> 01:21:03.600 And, uh, I left at like seven-ish or something. 01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:08.200 So yeah, we would, Droops and I did a little geocaching, so we all had to take off and 01:21:08.200 --> 01:21:09.360 catch planes out of there. 01:21:10.080 --> 01:21:11.380 So yeah, that was good. 01:21:11.460 --> 01:21:13.640 The, you know, the hanging out was the highlight of it. 01:21:13.660 --> 01:21:17.160 It felt like, you know, and you had, you had said this in the past, I think even on the 01:21:17.160 --> 01:21:19.180 show, that it was like a big 2,600 meeting. 01:21:19.180 --> 01:21:20.740 And that, and it really is what it was. 01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:21.480 It really felt like. 01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:23.400 It's a big 2,600 meeting. 01:21:23.540 --> 01:21:27.320 I, I'm sure a 2,600 meeting, even yours guys down in Florida, someone's going to give 01:21:27.320 --> 01:21:30.780 a presentation, but it's probably not going to be like ground shaking. 01:21:30.780 --> 01:21:35.680 You know, I just found a flaw in, you know, IP, and now I can own everything. 01:21:36.020 --> 01:21:36.120 Right. 01:21:36.520 --> 01:21:36.920 You know? 01:21:37.060 --> 01:21:37.320 Right. 01:21:37.900 --> 01:21:41.520 And, um, Nashville itself, you know, it was pretty small. 01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:45.660 The downtown area with stuff to do, the club scene and everything, was not very much to 01:21:45.660 --> 01:21:46.360 write home about. 01:21:46.880 --> 01:21:47.120 Nope. 01:21:47.300 --> 01:21:47.400 Nope. 01:21:47.400 --> 01:21:48.380 I'm glad it didn't schedule. 01:21:48.640 --> 01:21:50.380 It's in the middle of freaking Tennessee. 01:21:50.840 --> 01:21:51.160 Yeah. 01:21:51.320 --> 01:21:52.180 It wasn't so bad. 01:21:52.220 --> 01:21:55.040 I still had a good time the one or two nights we went down there. 01:21:55.440 --> 01:21:57.140 Any more than that, yeah, it would have gotten old. 01:21:57.260 --> 01:21:57.400 But. 01:21:57.400 --> 01:21:59.120 They, they've got the Batman building. 01:21:59.940 --> 01:22:01.740 They've got the Batman Bell South building there. 01:22:01.740 --> 01:22:01.860 Yeah. 01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:05.040 We went through the Bell South, we did a little UE around the Bell South building. 01:22:05.420 --> 01:22:06.360 I forgot to mention that. 01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:10.740 And every restaurant, and this is the one thing that I missed about the South, every 01:22:10.740 --> 01:22:12.580 restaurant had sweet iced tea. 01:22:13.100 --> 01:22:13.440 Yes. 01:22:13.600 --> 01:22:14.320 Even white. 01:22:14.760 --> 01:22:15.400 On tap. 01:22:15.400 --> 01:22:15.620 Yeah. 01:22:15.740 --> 01:22:16.820 Even White Castles. 01:22:17.360 --> 01:22:17.760 Yep. 01:22:17.900 --> 01:22:18.740 Had sweet iced tea. 01:22:18.820 --> 01:22:19.800 And that's a Southern thing. 01:22:19.900 --> 01:22:22.060 And that, I missed, and I'm glad I had that. 01:22:22.500 --> 01:22:23.580 And I had some White Castles, too. 01:22:24.300 --> 01:22:27.060 So, yeah, let's, let's close out on that pish posh. 01:22:27.060 --> 01:22:31.140 How dare you say pish posh on my, it's like you, what was that other thing you taught 01:22:31.140 --> 01:22:34.300 me, a, a ferret and a glitter shop? 01:22:34.340 --> 01:22:35.020 Is that what it was? 01:22:35.460 --> 01:22:36.520 Ferret and a glitter shop. 01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:38.680 I still don't even know what the hell that means. 01:22:38.900 --> 01:22:39.520 Yeah, yeah. 01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:41.500 It's so easy, so easily distracted. 01:22:41.680 --> 01:22:42.300 Oh, okay. 01:22:42.460 --> 01:22:42.740 Yeah. 01:22:43.740 --> 01:22:44.660 Oh, man. 01:22:44.920 --> 01:22:45.180 Yep. 01:22:45.180 --> 01:22:47.180 I think those are definitely radio firsts. 01:22:48.140 --> 01:22:48.400 Yes. 01:22:48.480 --> 01:22:48.960 There we go. 01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:50.200 Let's wrap it up here. 01:22:50.820 --> 01:22:54.160 I'm glad I said we'll give shouts as we go along, because I didn't want to leave anybody 01:22:54.160 --> 01:22:54.420 out. 01:22:54.560 --> 01:22:58.980 I mean, everybody in ATL, you know, all those guys we mentioned earlier, definitely big shouts 01:22:58.980 --> 01:22:59.580 out to them. 01:22:59.660 --> 01:23:03.040 To Johnny Christmas, and he's in Chicago area, I think. 01:23:05.180 --> 01:23:05.580 Hmm. 01:23:05.680 --> 01:23:06.180 Who else? 01:23:07.500 --> 01:23:07.860 Droops. 01:23:08.860 --> 01:23:09.260 Nattis. 01:23:09.260 --> 01:23:10.220 Droops was excellent to meet. 01:23:10.300 --> 01:23:11.040 He was really cool. 01:23:11.100 --> 01:23:13.100 He called everybody buddy, which I liked. 01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:15.620 And he kept smacking me on the ass. 01:23:15.660 --> 01:23:16.240 I liked that. 01:23:16.320 --> 01:23:16.860 That was nice. 01:23:17.140 --> 01:23:17.580 Yeah, it was nice. 01:23:17.640 --> 01:23:23.840 And Rattle came down from New Jersey, and there were meme streamers. 01:23:23.940 --> 01:23:25.600 There were quite a number of folks there. 01:23:25.840 --> 01:23:26.180 Cool. 01:23:26.440 --> 01:23:27.180 Very cool. 01:23:28.320 --> 01:23:30.260 And kind of a weird shout out. 01:23:30.340 --> 01:23:32.640 This is more like a link that I found that people might like. 01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:40.480 There's a short video called Triple Triple by Liz Dubelman, and you can check it out 01:23:40.480 --> 01:23:46.780 at vidlit, V-I-D-L-I-T dot com, and you can find it from there. 01:23:46.820 --> 01:23:48.840 I won't give you the long URL, but you can find it from there. 01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:53.100 So, shouts to her, because I thought that was a really cool independent video, independent 01:23:53.100 --> 01:23:53.660 film thing. 01:23:53.700 --> 01:23:55.120 It was like eight or nine minutes, I think. 01:23:55.640 --> 01:23:55.900 Mm-hmm. 01:23:56.560 --> 01:23:58.800 And I had put that on the notes before we went to Freaknik. 01:23:59.060 --> 01:24:00.400 Anybody else from Freaknik? 01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:01.280 You know what? 01:24:01.320 --> 01:24:02.040 Shouts to Dolanite. 01:24:02.060 --> 01:24:03.340 Hey, you got to meet Alonka. 01:24:03.900 --> 01:24:04.260 I'm sorry? 01:24:04.700 --> 01:24:05.620 Oh, yes. 01:24:05.680 --> 01:24:06.040 I did. 01:24:06.040 --> 01:24:08.760 Oh, definitely shouts to Alonka. 01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:12.740 And, you know, I talked to her about how I had read her. 01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:17.580 I actually did, I had talked about her on the episode of the show quite a bit, that I had 01:24:17.580 --> 01:24:18.500 read her DEF CON presentation. 01:24:18.700 --> 01:24:19.720 I got to meet and speak with her. 01:24:19.860 --> 01:24:21.440 Very, very nice. 01:24:22.040 --> 01:24:24.040 Such a genuinely nice person. 01:24:24.480 --> 01:24:25.020 Mm-hmm. 01:24:25.240 --> 01:24:25.460 Yes. 01:24:25.620 --> 01:24:26.580 She's fantastic. 01:24:26.740 --> 01:24:26.940 Yeah. 01:24:27.300 --> 01:24:28.940 Genuinely nice person. 01:24:29.100 --> 01:24:29.460 Genuine. 01:24:30.220 --> 01:24:30.480 Mm-hmm. 01:24:30.660 --> 01:24:31.820 She was very cool. 01:24:33.400 --> 01:24:35.380 Gosh, I know I'm leaving someone out, so I apologize. 01:24:35.660 --> 01:24:36.020 Dolomite. 01:24:36.080 --> 01:24:38.220 I was going to already say Dolomite for putting the whole thing on. 01:24:39.020 --> 01:24:40.400 Lissy, who was very nice. 01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:45.960 Gosh, I'm sure I'm leaving someone else, and I guess Alonka can yell at me. 01:24:46.040 --> 01:24:46.400 Locke. 01:24:46.460 --> 01:24:47.340 Shouts to Locke. 01:24:48.520 --> 01:24:50.160 He's from Tennessee area. 01:24:50.420 --> 01:24:52.080 Friend of Voodoo Howls, who didn't make it. 01:24:54.420 --> 01:24:55.480 Gosh, I think that's it. 01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:57.540 I guess email us. 01:24:57.640 --> 01:24:57.920 Anybody? 01:24:58.160 --> 01:24:59.060 Did we leave anybody out? 01:24:59.700 --> 01:25:00.660 I think we got them. 01:25:00.700 --> 01:25:01.000 Is that it? 01:25:01.400 --> 01:25:04.280 I'm sure we probably did, and, you know, sorry that we did. 01:25:04.560 --> 01:25:04.680 Yeah. 01:25:05.240 --> 01:25:05.720 Oh, well. 01:25:05.720 --> 01:25:07.860 It's been a long night, and we're both sick. 01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:09.380 Yeah, exactly, exactly. 01:25:09.500 --> 01:25:13.840 I drank my whole thing of iced tea sitting here, so I've got to go water down my throat here. 01:25:14.540 --> 01:25:21.880 If you have email, I know I'm going to get hate mail for it, but radio at binrev.com if you want to give us feedback. 01:25:21.880 --> 01:25:25.820 Our closing music this week is actually a little interesting. 01:25:26.420 --> 01:25:29.600 I'm actually using a track called Now Get Busy from the Beastie Boys. 01:25:30.380 --> 01:25:31.020 This is cool. 01:25:31.020 --> 01:25:37.600 Now, the regular listeners know I end the show usually with independent music, stuff that I find freely available on the Internet. 01:25:39.240 --> 01:25:43.480 A, because I believe in supporting the artists and stuff, and that's what I was working with. 01:25:44.440 --> 01:25:45.960 It was, was it Ichabod? 01:25:47.360 --> 01:25:47.760 Ichabod. 01:25:49.060 --> 01:25:50.840 The presentation I get down with the RIAA. 01:25:51.460 --> 01:25:51.660 Yeah. 01:25:51.720 --> 01:25:52.620 It was just before yours. 01:25:53.180 --> 01:25:54.360 I hope I got that name right. 01:25:55.100 --> 01:25:56.000 I think it's how you say it. 01:25:56.000 --> 01:26:00.040 Yeah, about talking to him about some of that. 01:26:00.100 --> 01:26:01.060 But anyway, back to this. 01:26:03.220 --> 01:26:08.120 In the current issue of Wired Magazine, which was in my mailbox when I got home from Freaknik, 01:26:08.700 --> 01:26:15.420 they have a CD that has, oh, it's a full-length CD, 15 or 20 tracks, from artists that basically, 01:26:15.420 --> 01:26:20.200 they put the CD together and released it under the Creative Commons license. 01:26:21.200 --> 01:26:23.160 And a Creative Commons audio license at that. 01:26:23.160 --> 01:26:30.300 I guess there's an audio, something that covers audio and allows people to not only distribute and reuse it within certain, 01:26:30.380 --> 01:26:35.720 you know, certain guidelines, but also to remix it and use bits and pieces and parts of it as well. 01:26:36.580 --> 01:26:38.040 So, I'm going to do that. 01:26:38.100 --> 01:26:42.980 I'm going to play the first track off of that CD, which is from the Beastie Boys, 01:26:43.420 --> 01:26:45.160 because I know there's a lot of Beastie fans out there. 01:26:45.160 --> 01:26:47.600 So, we are going to close with that. 01:26:47.880 --> 01:26:54.240 And, Acidus, I know you're still catching up on things there at home since you just got back. 01:26:54.400 --> 01:26:55.340 And same thing with me. 01:26:55.440 --> 01:26:56.220 I went to the doctor. 01:26:56.440 --> 01:26:57.860 That was my first order of business. 01:26:58.960 --> 01:27:03.040 And hopefully, over the next few days, we'll recover. 01:27:03.820 --> 01:27:04.020 Yeah. 01:27:04.120 --> 01:27:05.160 And you had more than... 01:27:05.160 --> 01:27:07.620 I'm going to be visiting the Campus Wellness Center. 01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:09.160 I can't believe they call it that tomorrow. 01:27:09.160 --> 01:27:11.780 You had more than a beer with Decius. 01:27:12.060 --> 01:27:13.000 That's all I'm going to say. 01:27:13.480 --> 01:27:15.400 Oh, I did have more than a beer with Decius. 01:27:15.600 --> 01:27:16.960 In fact, I don't really like beer. 01:27:17.080 --> 01:27:19.460 It's either, you know, wussy girl drinks or shots. 01:27:20.060 --> 01:27:23.020 We ran out of the wussy girl drinks pretty quick, unfortunately. 01:27:24.860 --> 01:27:25.880 Let's just say that. 01:27:26.060 --> 01:27:27.240 Okay, we'll leave it at that. 01:27:27.980 --> 01:27:32.420 So, I guess we're going to wrap it up, and we'll wrap up the show and leave it at this, 01:27:32.560 --> 01:27:35.040 and that is to tell everyone that we'll see them next week. 01:27:35.440 --> 01:27:36.240 Same hack time. 01:27:36.760 --> 01:27:37.480 Same hack channel. 01:27:39.160 --> 01:27:49.520 We're the independent house of AK Dweller. 01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:51.680 I can tell you about now, I'm not a fortune teller. 01:27:51.740 --> 01:27:53.740 Grab a treat from you, you'll see my muffin seller. 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:55.940 Got mad technique like Rudy Vangela. 01:27:56.080 --> 01:27:58.140 And yes, I got a plan, I'ma carry out it. 01:27:58.300 --> 01:28:00.300 It's a pro-choice, I'ma scream and shout it. 01:28:00.460 --> 01:28:02.400 It's a love life, and I try not to doubt it. 01:28:02.580 --> 01:28:04.620 It's a gunna party, cause I'm bout it, bout it. 01:28:04.620 --> 01:28:06.480 When it rains, I don't use an umbrella. 01:28:06.800 --> 01:28:08.620 When the five-fives, I use in Della. 01:28:08.620 --> 01:28:10.700 Believe, that will make you think. 01:28:11.060 --> 01:28:12.800 Someone like water, that's your love to drink. 01:28:13.260 --> 01:28:14.880 Now, get busy. 01:28:14.880 --> 01:28:23.560 Sweet like a vodka filled with Nutella. 01:28:23.800 --> 01:28:25.700 Be me like Duvalo Uzzarela. 01:28:25.920 --> 01:28:29.760 Sneaking around, you know I play her while I play her like a peanut and a salt shell. 01:28:30.200 --> 01:28:32.100 I can give a fuzz if it's a danger or fall-up. 01:28:32.260 --> 01:28:34.280 Against a mini-hoony rap, you false fall-up. 01:28:34.460 --> 01:28:36.540 Middle school rapper and a proud, yeah, call-up. 01:28:36.620 --> 01:28:38.400 Thinkin' bout your grandma's overhead color. 01:28:38.620 --> 01:28:40.520 From the east coast of what don't say, hella. 01:28:40.800 --> 01:28:42.600 I don't like stand my performance in cell. 01:28:42.600 --> 01:28:44.600 I can say plan and I'm listenin' better. 01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:46.880 I'll give a little shoutin' if it's a man's ever. 01:28:47.240 --> 01:28:48.860 Now, get busy. 01:28:48.860 --> 01:29:16.600 No wonder ways I make you scream and holler. 01:29:16.600 --> 01:29:18.720 I'm pouncing, cool to your queen, I'm a dollar. 01:29:18.820 --> 01:29:20.880 Give a shout to zero, six to the child, holler. 01:29:20.940 --> 01:29:23.000 I'm a student of the game and I'm gonna find a dollar. 01:29:23.240 --> 01:29:25.180 We come on a porn, should I eat that coffin? 01:29:25.420 --> 01:29:27.280 Putters on the table, now watch it soften. 01:29:27.520 --> 01:29:29.600 Bringin' those beats and I'ma bringin' them puffin'. 01:29:29.600 --> 01:29:31.460 I'ma keep rappin' when I'm in my coffin. 01:29:31.500 --> 01:29:33.580 Like a mind-goin' man that is unwinding. 01:29:33.900 --> 01:29:35.680 In a pattern room, the walls are climbing. 01:29:35.840 --> 01:29:38.060 Don't climb on the line if it's a bindin'. 01:29:38.060 --> 01:29:39.960 Get to get loose and find the lightning. 01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:42.000 Now, get busy. 01:30:00.960 --> 01:30:03.400 Now, get busy. 01:30:03.400 --> 01:30:33.380 Now, get busy.