WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:08.340 Welcome to the next generation of Hacking Information Exchange. 00:30.000 --> 00:35.660 I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million JPEGs if you're in a fag pose. 00:35.900 --> 00:40.800 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold. 00:41.080 --> 00:45.620 I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable. 00:45.900 --> 00:47.880 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. 00:48.240 --> 00:51.620 On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero. 00:51.840 --> 00:54.320 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream packs. 00:54.320 --> 00:57.560 You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle. 00:57.560 --> 00:59.580 Our exchange, you could never stifle. 00:59.780 --> 01:02.700 In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. 01:03.020 --> 01:06.720 I bootlegged your CD. I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z. 01:07.060 --> 01:11.260 Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. 01:11.680 --> 01:15.440 You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones? 01:15.760 --> 01:17.600 And NASDAQ, leave you flat on your back? 01:17.860 --> 01:19.900 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:20.300 --> 01:22.660 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:23.100 --> 01:25.780 This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals. 01:25.780 --> 01:30.680 Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, Sips, Sips. 01:31.060 --> 01:33.200 This is dedicated to the hackers and... 01:33.200 --> 01:36.160 I am starting the show off differently this time. 01:37.180 --> 01:37.940 That was it. 01:38.680 --> 01:39.500 That was differently. 01:39.620 --> 01:41.860 I didn't start off with one of my standbys of 01:41.860 --> 01:44.180 I am StankDawg and this is. 01:44.240 --> 01:45.180 I didn't start off with 01:45.180 --> 01:46.620 Alright, everybody. 01:46.960 --> 01:48.000 I didn't start off with 01:48.000 --> 01:49.900 You are listening to Binary Revolution Radio. 01:50.400 --> 01:52.360 Actually, I guess I just did all three of them. 01:52.500 --> 01:53.120 So I... 01:53.120 --> 01:54.220 Oh, God, I suck. 01:54.220 --> 01:56.260 I really suck at this radio thing, dude. 01:56.280 --> 01:56.960 Have you noticed that? 01:58.540 --> 01:58.900 No. 02:00.700 --> 02:01.760 You're having me on 02:01.760 --> 02:04.040 so I'm not going to bad mouth to host on the show. 02:04.260 --> 02:05.260 That's what forums are for. 02:05.600 --> 02:07.780 You're going to be doing all the talking on this show. 02:07.980 --> 02:09.880 This show, of course, is episode 77. 02:10.220 --> 02:11.620 We are Binary Revolution Radio. 02:12.340 --> 02:13.960 I am StankDawg and the voice you heard 02:13.960 --> 02:15.260 if you don't recognize by now 02:15.260 --> 02:16.840 is none other than Black Ratchet. 02:18.620 --> 02:19.280 Scary, huh? 02:19.280 --> 02:24.820 And we are coming to you on January 4th, 2005. 02:25.860 --> 02:27.360 Happy New Fear to everybody. 02:27.780 --> 02:29.540 2005 is upon us. 02:29.660 --> 02:32.400 So Binary Revolution begins again. 02:32.720 --> 02:33.500 Actually, we're not beginning. 02:33.620 --> 02:34.300 We're still ongoing. 02:34.460 --> 02:35.920 We're in the middle of season two, I guess. 02:36.500 --> 02:39.380 We didn't coincide with the beginning of January 02:39.380 --> 02:40.200 when we started it. 02:40.240 --> 02:42.020 So I'm not going to go with that kind of calendar. 02:42.260 --> 02:43.820 So that's it. 02:43.820 --> 02:45.600 And other than that, 02:45.720 --> 02:48.400 I am pretty exhausted. 02:48.860 --> 02:50.820 I got like an hour of sleep last night. 02:50.940 --> 02:53.060 I got only three or four hours each night 02:53.060 --> 02:54.060 for the last week. 02:54.180 --> 02:56.220 So if I fall asleep, 02:56.520 --> 02:58.160 Black Ratchet takes over the rest of the show. 02:58.220 --> 02:58.720 You got that? 02:59.620 --> 03:00.060 Woo-hoo! 03:00.200 --> 03:00.560 Yay! 03:00.920 --> 03:01.780 You got the show notes, right? 03:01.820 --> 03:03.400 You can go ahead and... 03:03.400 --> 03:04.260 In case I zonk out somewhere. 03:04.260 --> 03:04.740 Oh, screw it. 03:04.740 --> 03:06.260 Do you think I want to follow the show notes 03:06.260 --> 03:06.980 if you fall asleep? 03:07.240 --> 03:07.840 Oh, great. 03:07.860 --> 03:08.360 It'll become like, you know, 03:08.400 --> 03:09.480 Black Ratchet's Lounge. 03:09.600 --> 03:10.420 This'll turn. 03:10.520 --> 03:11.920 Bring in the lovely lady types. 03:11.920 --> 03:13.140 Bow, check out. 03:13.880 --> 03:14.040 Bow, bow. 03:14.200 --> 03:14.780 Oh, book, book. 03:14.800 --> 03:16.140 In Rave Radio, After Dark. 03:16.480 --> 03:18.940 Well, it'll be like a redo of Episode 69. 03:20.980 --> 03:25.800 Anyway, we actually have a very big announcement 03:25.800 --> 03:27.060 coming up later in the show. 03:27.140 --> 03:27.940 We have a new project. 03:28.100 --> 03:28.820 It is completed. 03:30.320 --> 03:31.280 And you'll have to... 03:31.280 --> 03:31.960 We have to... 03:31.960 --> 03:33.060 They're going to have to stick around 03:33.060 --> 03:35.120 to hear what it is at the end of the show. 03:35.800 --> 03:38.500 Because we've actually got some good email again this week 03:38.500 --> 03:40.080 and a pretty interesting topic 03:40.080 --> 03:41.600 that we're going to talk about for our main topic. 03:41.600 --> 03:45.440 We're going to talk about wikis and what they are and how they work. 03:46.300 --> 03:46.500 Wiki! 03:46.980 --> 03:48.960 And how much I despise the term wiki. 03:49.080 --> 03:50.980 I still, oh, I hate the word. 03:51.060 --> 03:52.360 But anyway, let's jump into... 03:52.360 --> 03:52.760 Oh, come on. 03:52.780 --> 03:53.280 It could be worse. 03:53.340 --> 03:54.040 It could be blog. 03:54.580 --> 03:56.360 Well, blog's pretty annoying, too. 03:57.220 --> 03:59.660 Yeah, I mean, but wiki's worse, isn't it? 04:00.780 --> 04:01.600 I like wiki. 04:01.680 --> 04:02.480 I think it's a fun term. 04:02.940 --> 04:06.080 And I like the fact that the way you came up with it. 04:06.780 --> 04:07.100 Yeah. 04:07.100 --> 04:07.960 The way they came up with it. 04:08.020 --> 04:10.240 And I'll cover that later on, but we won't get into that right now. 04:10.240 --> 04:12.920 I wonder if there's a wiki-based blog. 04:14.620 --> 04:16.140 Yes, it's called a... 04:16.140 --> 04:17.040 Oh, shoot. 04:17.840 --> 04:18.680 I bet you. 04:18.920 --> 04:20.140 There is such a thing. 04:20.200 --> 04:21.860 And it's called like a log or something. 04:21.940 --> 04:22.320 I don't know. 04:22.520 --> 04:23.920 I think it's called Suck. 04:26.660 --> 04:29.460 Anyway, starting off the show very fun tonight. 04:29.660 --> 04:30.800 Very light-hearted show. 04:31.560 --> 04:32.320 And, oh, I'm sorry. 04:32.400 --> 04:34.460 I almost left off our theme music. 04:34.460 --> 04:37.460 Let's do the radio theme song, the email theme song here. 04:39.140 --> 04:39.900 Yeah, no, no. 04:40.240 --> 04:41.020 Da-da-da. 04:41.360 --> 04:41.980 Da-da-da. 04:43.300 --> 04:44.660 I'm going to leave that in now, you know. 04:46.340 --> 04:46.960 All right. 04:47.100 --> 04:48.260 So, our first email. 04:49.020 --> 04:49.560 I am. 04:49.600 --> 04:50.200 I'm leaving that in. 04:50.240 --> 04:51.720 I'm not putting in our email theme music now. 04:52.660 --> 04:53.280 Okay, fine. 04:53.380 --> 04:55.400 That was our Beavis and Butthead. 04:55.720 --> 04:56.260 Da-da-da. 04:57.080 --> 04:58.880 Actually, it sounds a little bit like the Sports Center. 04:58.940 --> 05:00.180 We might get sued or something. 05:01.200 --> 05:01.820 Da-da-da. 05:02.020 --> 05:02.760 Da-da-da. 05:02.760 --> 05:02.840 Da-da-da. 05:04.640 --> 05:05.200 Oh, dude. 05:05.240 --> 05:06.120 I need sleep bad. 05:06.200 --> 05:06.620 Can you tell? 05:07.660 --> 05:08.020 Yep. 05:08.020 --> 05:08.420 Yeah. 05:09.140 --> 05:09.580 All right. 05:09.640 --> 05:11.720 Anyway, let me see if I can get it together here. 05:12.020 --> 05:14.080 And let's do some email. 05:15.480 --> 05:20.920 First email says, Dear Stank Dog, how do you type emails with those boxing gloves on? 05:21.920 --> 05:22.700 Oh, wait a minute. 05:22.760 --> 05:22.980 Hold on. 05:23.000 --> 05:23.700 This isn't mine. 05:23.800 --> 05:24.060 Hold on. 05:24.060 --> 05:24.820 I've got to forward this. 05:24.900 --> 05:25.860 I know who this is for. 05:26.680 --> 05:27.080 Forward. 05:27.600 --> 05:27.820 Okay. 05:28.760 --> 05:29.460 Oh, okay. 05:29.600 --> 05:30.800 So, our second email. 05:30.920 --> 05:31.460 Sorry about that. 05:31.520 --> 05:31.640 Sorry. 05:31.680 --> 05:32.480 I get this mistake. 05:32.580 --> 05:34.120 People send me those emails sometimes. 05:34.640 --> 05:37.200 Second email is from DS. 05:38.060 --> 05:46.100 DS says, among some other things, but says, The show pones, but do more social engineering stuff, please. 05:46.100 --> 05:49.280 Like, in episode 75 with the Microsoft guy. 05:51.000 --> 05:57.180 Episode 75, of course, was the telephonic craptacular, which you were on that call with me, if I remember correctly. 05:57.940 --> 06:00.000 And I got to serenade everyone with my singing voice. 06:00.100 --> 06:02.040 I haven't actually listened to that episode yet. 06:02.100 --> 06:03.200 I'm kind of scared of it. 06:03.620 --> 06:04.540 Exactly, yeah. 06:04.560 --> 06:06.400 But I have my iPod at work, so that's when I'm usually listening. 06:06.700 --> 06:06.900 Yep. 06:06.900 --> 06:12.520 Um, we, I was, you know, I was not sure if I was going to keep doing the craptaculars. 06:12.720 --> 06:18.520 I don't know if people like them or not, but we did get some good feedback on it, so, um, I am going to keep on doing it. 06:18.600 --> 06:20.900 However, they're pretty tough to do. 06:20.960 --> 06:30.400 They're not as easy as, uh, we, we've got the show notes and topics down where we can plan ahead of time, do some research, get our thoughts together for a week on a topic, 06:30.400 --> 06:33.760 and be prepared to present it and talk about it when the time comes for the show. 06:33.760 --> 06:38.840 Whereas the telephonic craptacular type things are usually spontaneous stuff. 06:39.100 --> 06:45.760 And that's why I do it every 75 is because it gives me, um, you know, 25, uh, what did I say? 06:45.800 --> 06:49.540 Every 70, yeah, every 25, the most recent one being 75. 06:49.780 --> 06:51.440 Yeah, I should do them every 75, but no. 06:51.820 --> 06:58.020 It gives me 25 episodes, which is a few months to save some of the phone calls that we make here and there. 06:58.240 --> 07:00.580 And sometimes I have more than others. 07:00.580 --> 07:05.160 So, it's, uh, kind of difficult to do because I don't set out particularly to do it. 07:05.200 --> 07:12.400 I just sometimes will think, um, this might be a funny call to make, save it, and then when the time comes, see if I have enough to fill up an hour show. 07:12.980 --> 07:13.580 And I usually bury. 07:13.580 --> 07:22.380 And that didn't happen on episode 75 because that Microsoft phone call was recorded Monday night at around 11.30 p.m. 07:22.380 --> 07:25.580 Well, it started, and, and, yeah, we made a lot of calls. 07:25.980 --> 07:27.580 We were on until like 2 or 3 in the morning. 07:27.660 --> 07:28.940 There's stuff that didn't make the show. 07:29.820 --> 07:30.920 Remember, well, never mind. 07:30.980 --> 07:33.260 Anyway, that's a whole topic for another story. 07:33.680 --> 07:39.960 But they don't, the point being, there's a lot of failed calls that suck and nobody wants to hear and that are boring. 07:39.960 --> 07:44.580 And for every good one or every one that's usable that we find interesting. 07:44.700 --> 07:46.060 So, there's a lot of them that just are no good. 07:46.500 --> 07:50.980 And secondly, it takes time to just come up with what's, what hasn't been done. 07:51.040 --> 07:58.220 You know, I, one thing I've, I've said I'm not going to do on the cramptaculars, not me personally, is I don't want to make it into a prank call show. 07:59.080 --> 08:02.500 I don't mind playing, I don't, I don't mind playing one or two of them. 08:02.700 --> 08:05.300 Or if somebody sent me, I'd put them in if I thought they were funny ones. 08:06.180 --> 08:08.660 But I just don't want to make a whole show of just prank calls. 08:08.720 --> 08:09.840 To me, that's not fun. 08:09.880 --> 08:14.300 That's been done before, and there's plenty of websites where you can download prank calls and stuff like that. 08:14.340 --> 08:18.580 That's not, I don't know, that just doesn't, that's not anything interesting or unique to me. 08:18.580 --> 08:21.300 So, I just don't want to let it turn into something like that. 08:22.040 --> 08:28.200 So, yes, we'll make some funny calls, but they're not like, you know, is your refrigerator running and do you have 10 pound balls or whatever. 08:28.480 --> 08:31.400 How there's, I don't want to do stuff like that or just be annoying to people. 08:31.520 --> 08:34.120 I want to be annoying to people with a purpose, that's all. 08:35.020 --> 08:37.400 And I'm pretty good at that, if I say so myself. 08:37.800 --> 08:38.920 I pride myself on that. 08:41.100 --> 08:43.080 But anyway, back to this topic. 08:43.220 --> 08:46.140 There is actually a new radio show coming out. 08:46.140 --> 08:53.320 We talked about it when I ran down the shows before, and I can't give you a lot of detail right now because it's still in development. 08:53.540 --> 08:57.060 But I can tell you that we do have a show on Saturday nights. 08:57.060 --> 09:05.960 It's going to be exclusively on DDP Hack Radio that's going to have material that's probably closer to what this gentleman seems to be looking for. 09:06.460 --> 09:08.480 It's probably going to be some prank stuff. 09:08.580 --> 09:09.720 There's going to be some funny calls. 09:09.820 --> 09:11.140 There's going to be some social engineering. 09:11.300 --> 09:13.060 There's just going to be all kinds of stuff on that. 09:13.400 --> 09:15.520 It's going to be a live, anything goes kind of deal. 09:16.020 --> 09:19.140 The world's first reality radio show is what I've billed it as. 09:19.180 --> 09:20.800 Definitely the first freaking reality show. 09:20.800 --> 09:23.400 I am frankly quite excited. 09:23.700 --> 09:28.760 Yeah, it's really going to be fun, and it's going to be freestyle, and it's going to be dangerous in some ways. 09:28.960 --> 09:32.680 And we're just going to let that be part of the show. 09:32.760 --> 09:40.860 That's what makes this a reality show is if people come on and say things that they shouldn't or do things that they shouldn't, that's part of the show. 09:40.860 --> 09:44.740 So that's kind of one of the things that does make it exciting and make it unique. 09:45.000 --> 09:49.660 So look forward to that, and of course we will announce more details on it when it comes closer. 09:49.780 --> 09:50.600 The site is registered. 09:50.720 --> 09:52.060 I haven't put up anything yet. 09:52.460 --> 09:54.340 Probably just going to throw up a simple page. 09:54.700 --> 09:58.220 And don't even know if we're going to offer the show for download. 09:58.340 --> 09:59.740 It might be live only. 09:59.940 --> 10:06.940 So unless somebody wants to record the stream out there and keep them, which I know some people do, that might be the only way you can get them. 10:06.960 --> 10:09.660 I don't know that we're going to keep an episode. 10:09.660 --> 10:10.940 That actually sounds like a good idea. 10:11.160 --> 10:11.260 Yeah. 10:11.740 --> 10:15.740 I just, because it's going to be like an all-night open mic night kind of deal. 10:16.160 --> 10:18.300 So it's going to be a lot of this space. 10:18.780 --> 10:22.340 So anyway, on to another email. 10:23.180 --> 10:25.720 Email from IH827. 10:28.660 --> 10:29.180 IH827. 10:29.440 --> 10:29.940 Hey-oh. 10:30.920 --> 10:33.660 Who says, what's up, StankDog and co-host? 10:33.960 --> 10:34.520 That's you. 10:34.560 --> 10:35.860 Nothing much, email sender. 10:36.020 --> 10:37.880 Yeah, nothing much, email person. 10:38.140 --> 10:39.620 Email sender number three. 10:40.660 --> 10:42.380 Uh, he says... 10:42.380 --> 10:43.620 Email sender number three. 10:43.820 --> 10:45.140 What do you like about the beach? 10:46.060 --> 10:47.360 What are your turn-offs? 10:48.320 --> 10:48.660 If... 10:49.440 --> 10:51.700 I wasn't going there, but thank you for crossing that line. 10:51.700 --> 10:56.360 Oh, I was about to go vulgar and mention something about a hot dog, but I didn't even, yeah. 10:57.220 --> 10:58.720 Those old corny date... 10:58.720 --> 11:00.160 What was it, the love connection? 11:01.380 --> 11:01.660 Is that what... 11:01.660 --> 11:03.040 The dating... 11:03.040 --> 11:04.040 Uh, dating... 11:04.040 --> 11:04.720 I don't know. 11:04.900 --> 11:05.360 I don't know. 11:05.420 --> 11:05.900 Somebody... 11:05.900 --> 11:06.440 You know who... 11:06.440 --> 11:07.040 You know what? 11:07.100 --> 11:10.480 Here's an email that I can guarantee you somebody knows this. 11:10.560 --> 11:12.500 Pixel Fiend, email me and tell me. 11:12.880 --> 11:13.420 I think it was... 11:13.420 --> 11:14.400 Or was it the match game? 11:15.400 --> 11:16.680 Oh, that could be it. 11:16.820 --> 11:17.260 That could be it. 11:17.400 --> 11:18.920 Pixel Fiend, email and confirm me. 11:18.940 --> 11:21.920 I don't know what Pixel Fiend, bask in his TV tome knowledge. 11:22.120 --> 11:22.760 He'll, uh... 11:22.760 --> 11:24.460 He and I are from that, uh... 11:24.460 --> 11:26.500 We remember that, so he'll correct me. 11:27.260 --> 11:28.180 Um... 11:28.180 --> 11:29.340 Shouts to Pixel Fiend, by the way. 11:29.920 --> 11:30.920 Um... 11:30.920 --> 11:31.860 Where was I here? 11:31.940 --> 11:33.480 Man, I need sleep really bad. 11:34.580 --> 11:36.460 What's up, Sank Dog and co-host? 11:37.300 --> 11:42.200 I was looking at your project section, and I thought to myself, how great of a job DDP 11:42.200 --> 11:42.800 is doing. 11:43.240 --> 11:47.940 But I had an idea for DDP to offer hacking project challenges, or better yet, a contest. 11:48.400 --> 11:52.340 Like modding computers, or seeing who can build the best useful invention. 11:52.960 --> 11:55.180 Through forums, you can challenge the users to... 11:55.180 --> 12:00.280 And that way, the users can participate by more than posting. 12:00.680 --> 12:04.180 I would like to help out and give ideas to you guys, and... 12:04.180 --> 12:05.180 And... 12:05.980 --> 12:06.180 And... 12:06.900 --> 12:07.960 And what, man? 12:08.000 --> 12:08.680 And what? 12:08.860 --> 12:10.180 Don't leave me hanging here. 12:10.240 --> 12:10.460 What? 12:10.520 --> 12:11.580 You're gonna give me some money? 12:11.740 --> 12:13.120 You're gonna kill everyone? 12:13.240 --> 12:15.820 You're gonna make flying monkeys fly out of my ass? 12:15.880 --> 12:16.480 What, man? 12:16.500 --> 12:18.640 You left me with the half-written email. 12:20.040 --> 12:21.200 I'm scared now. 12:21.880 --> 12:22.960 Oh, man. 12:23.480 --> 12:25.100 I'm all excited, and I'm like, 12:25.180 --> 12:27.860 Oh, yay, give me ideas, and... 12:27.860 --> 12:29.020 Oh, yeah, I'm... 12:29.020 --> 12:29.540 Come on, man. 12:30.660 --> 12:31.320 IH827, man. 12:31.320 --> 12:32.500 You're gonna have to finish this up with me. 12:32.760 --> 12:33.220 You're gonna have to... 12:33.220 --> 12:34.680 You're gonna have to give me the rest of the story. 12:34.740 --> 12:35.520 I need to know how it ends. 12:35.560 --> 12:36.580 I can't sleep tonight now. 12:38.500 --> 12:42.100 Anyway, anyway, joking aside, yes, thanks for noticing. 12:42.280 --> 12:46.180 We do put out a lot of projects, and I pride myself on that. 12:46.240 --> 12:50.460 I know we work hard to get this stuff done, and to do things, you know, right. 12:50.460 --> 12:53.780 I like to think we try to make good quality, not just throwing stuff out. 12:53.840 --> 12:55.600 We try to make stuff that's good and useful. 12:55.600 --> 13:02.860 One of the ideas we did talk about was we kind of toyed with the idea of maybe making a war game project, 13:02.980 --> 13:07.940 a hacking war games, whether it was a capture the flag, attacking a system kind of war game, 13:08.020 --> 13:15.540 or a online hack this site, hack this challenge, figure out how to move through these levels kind of war game. 13:15.540 --> 13:21.500 We've kind of talked about that, and we kind of decided that it's, A, it's been done to death. 13:21.640 --> 13:28.240 There's just, there's a lot of them out there, and I would rather that people use them, you know. 13:28.300 --> 13:31.680 I support other people's projects, not just their own, you know. 13:31.700 --> 13:32.720 I don't have to reinvent it. 13:33.020 --> 13:39.700 People have already got some stuff out there, and I made a section in the forums to promote them, 13:39.700 --> 13:44.500 and encourage people to go out there and use them, and made some threads to get people motivated, 13:44.500 --> 13:48.660 and, you know, IH827 there. 13:48.780 --> 13:50.100 Go check that out. 13:50.880 --> 13:52.100 Nobody seems interested. 13:52.220 --> 13:53.000 Nobody uses it. 13:53.080 --> 13:55.960 I mean, I can create a section. 13:56.080 --> 13:59.960 I can put it out there, but I can't, I don't know. 13:59.980 --> 14:03.960 People want to sit in the off-topic and talk about how much they hate politics, 14:04.280 --> 14:11.260 or these certain politicians, and whatever, and they don't, I don't know why. 14:11.260 --> 14:18.000 I'm not going to go off into a tangent about that, but there's just more noise and talk in the thread than there is actual content. 14:18.120 --> 14:26.340 The Photoshop and GIMP thread, there's more people talking and posting comments than there are actually Photoshop entries or GIMP entries. 14:27.800 --> 14:28.000 So... 14:28.000 --> 14:29.160 Because no one's got skills. 14:29.840 --> 14:30.420 Well, I certainly... 14:30.420 --> 14:31.160 I'll put it out of the gauntlet right here. 14:31.160 --> 14:32.360 Yeah, I certainly don't. 14:32.420 --> 14:33.040 That's for sure. 14:33.220 --> 14:34.380 I'm the first to say that. 14:35.880 --> 14:41.220 So, yeah, I put those up, and you can go to forums.binrav.com if you're not familiar with the site, 14:41.360 --> 14:44.220 and you can find, you have access to all this kind of stuff. 14:44.940 --> 14:47.940 You'll see that we have the thread with the Hacking War Games, 14:48.380 --> 14:50.760 and that's all I can do, really. 14:50.820 --> 14:52.420 It's all I can have time to do. 14:52.500 --> 14:53.660 I can offer to help you. 14:54.020 --> 14:55.420 I can give you a place to communicate. 14:55.420 --> 14:59.680 I'll create a nice thread, try to make it clean and organized so that you can keep it, 15:00.060 --> 15:02.920 and give people the initiative to work on projects themselves. 15:03.420 --> 15:05.540 You don't have to do it on my site or on my forum. 15:05.600 --> 15:08.660 If you want to make your own site dedicated to it, that's fine, too. 15:09.260 --> 15:13.660 But all I can do is give you what I can help as much as I can, 15:13.720 --> 15:15.500 but I can't make people post. 15:15.580 --> 15:17.100 I can't make people play these games. 15:17.180 --> 15:18.200 I can't make people do it. 15:18.560 --> 15:19.980 So, you know... 15:19.980 --> 15:22.720 And again, this comes back to something I've said before. 15:22.720 --> 15:25.640 This is really what separates people from me. 15:25.880 --> 15:28.160 You know, there's people that talk, and then there's people that do. 15:29.980 --> 15:30.180 And... 15:30.180 --> 15:30.480 Amen. 15:30.880 --> 15:32.080 I'm a talker, apparently. 15:32.360 --> 15:33.220 I do a lot of talking. 15:33.920 --> 15:34.860 Way too much. 15:34.900 --> 15:35.260 No, yeah. 15:35.340 --> 15:37.600 Just ignore the whole magazine, radio show. 15:37.960 --> 15:38.320 Yeah, well. 15:38.440 --> 15:39.140 The radio show. 15:39.200 --> 15:39.740 That's talking. 15:39.820 --> 15:40.940 Again, talk, talk, talk. 15:40.980 --> 15:41.600 I'm a media whore. 15:42.060 --> 15:42.940 Yeah, but it's content. 15:43.240 --> 15:44.140 Content is king. 15:44.460 --> 15:46.540 I'm going to change my name to StankDog225. 15:47.560 --> 15:48.700 Media whore extraordinaire. 15:50.000 --> 15:50.840 No, anyway. 15:50.840 --> 15:55.520 Anyway, yeah, I can offer a place for people to communicate and work together and stuff 15:55.520 --> 15:57.180 like that, but I can't make them. 15:57.300 --> 15:59.200 You know, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. 15:59.320 --> 16:01.360 So, I really... 16:01.360 --> 16:04.200 I can help as much as I can, but I really would like to see somebody. 16:04.320 --> 16:09.000 I posted a thing saying if anybody's interested in kind of taking charge of this project, posting 16:09.000 --> 16:11.980 some threads, becoming involved, and nobody does it. 16:12.060 --> 16:13.080 And that's what I was saying before. 16:13.960 --> 16:14.860 Talkers and doers. 16:14.860 --> 16:19.100 And for DDP, that's what I've always looked at, people who do things and get things done 16:19.100 --> 16:20.300 and get things accomplished. 16:21.120 --> 16:21.340 You know? 16:21.460 --> 16:23.000 That's what sets people apart. 16:23.080 --> 16:24.440 That's what makes me notice people. 16:25.040 --> 16:25.300 You know? 16:25.420 --> 16:27.000 Your post count doesn't mean anything. 16:27.240 --> 16:27.460 You know? 16:27.520 --> 16:30.840 It's quality of the post, not quantity of the post. 16:31.160 --> 16:32.040 Show me something productive. 16:32.040 --> 16:33.160 That reminds me, I'm close to 500. 16:33.320 --> 16:34.540 I should post some stuff on the forums. 16:34.700 --> 16:35.880 I'm going to have to bump you back down. 16:35.940 --> 16:36.480 You know that, right? 16:36.480 --> 16:38.660 I'm negative. 16:38.840 --> 16:40.740 My post count is negative, so, you know? 16:41.620 --> 16:44.600 Actually, I guess I'm the biggest post whore, if we've got to come down to admit it, even 16:44.600 --> 16:46.080 though I've still pulled out of the forums recently. 16:48.080 --> 16:51.840 Yeah, the whole thing is that people are sitting there behind their keyboards, and they're going 16:51.840 --> 16:54.820 to talk about how elite they are, and how they want to do this, and how they've done 16:54.820 --> 16:56.160 that before, and you know what? 16:56.760 --> 16:57.620 Show me the money. 16:57.820 --> 17:03.040 Just get on there, show me, make some of these things happen, either in our forum, or 17:03.040 --> 17:04.000 do it on your own. 17:04.200 --> 17:05.160 Post us links to it. 17:05.180 --> 17:05.800 I'll support it. 17:05.800 --> 17:08.780 I'll mention it on the radio station, if you're doing a good job at it, and you're 17:08.780 --> 17:09.820 being serious about it. 17:10.340 --> 17:13.580 So, I'm telling this guy, IH827, okay? 17:13.800 --> 17:14.860 This is to you. 17:14.920 --> 17:16.160 I've never heard of you before. 17:16.260 --> 17:17.120 I've never met you before. 17:17.180 --> 17:18.080 We don't know each other. 17:18.480 --> 17:19.400 You sent me this email. 17:19.680 --> 17:21.680 I tell you what, this unfinished email. 17:22.400 --> 17:26.960 If you're sincere, and you really are interested in something like this, email me. 17:27.040 --> 17:27.800 Contact me. 17:27.800 --> 17:36.960 And if you really have the time, contact me and try to make something happen with this. 17:36.960 --> 17:38.660 Take charge of this project. 17:38.800 --> 17:41.060 Step up to the plate and make it happen. 17:41.700 --> 17:42.420 You know, somebody. 17:42.420 --> 17:44.700 And I'm going to offer it to IH827. 17:44.940 --> 17:47.900 If you really want to do this, I will help you as much as I can. 17:47.980 --> 17:48.780 I'll give you advice. 17:48.900 --> 17:53.000 I'll try to post occasionally if I can, if you want to take this on. 17:53.060 --> 17:54.220 So, this is from me to you. 17:54.420 --> 17:55.480 Never done this before. 17:55.720 --> 17:57.280 Just, you emailed me. 17:57.340 --> 17:57.900 You mentioned it. 17:58.200 --> 17:58.700 There it is. 17:58.740 --> 17:59.600 It's all yours. 17:59.720 --> 18:02.020 Just, if you want the job, email me and let me know. 18:02.800 --> 18:03.100 That's it. 18:03.100 --> 18:04.200 Go for the gold, IH8. 18:05.200 --> 18:07.260 Actually, I wonder if it's like IH8 or something. 18:07.480 --> 18:08.560 IH827. 18:08.840 --> 18:10.200 IH827. 18:10.340 --> 18:11.220 IH82T. 18:12.280 --> 18:13.080 IH82T. 18:14.100 --> 18:16.780 Maybe he doesn't like Kevin Rhoads' Dark Tangent T thing. 18:17.720 --> 18:18.080 Hmm. 18:18.360 --> 18:18.800 IH8. 18:19.000 --> 18:19.840 IH82D. 18:22.520 --> 18:23.160 Tootie Fruits? 18:23.300 --> 18:23.640 I don't know. 18:23.760 --> 18:25.280 No, Tootie from the Facts of Life. 18:25.900 --> 18:26.720 Come on, Pixel Fiend. 18:26.780 --> 18:28.000 Back me up on that one, too, brother. 18:28.620 --> 18:29.280 Come on, now. 18:30.180 --> 18:30.680 Tootie from the... 18:30.680 --> 18:33.760 I know what you're talking about, but I can't. 18:33.760 --> 18:35.840 Say, that's the last time I probably watched that. 18:35.980 --> 18:37.640 I was, oh, five or so. 18:37.820 --> 18:39.760 Yeah, I'm dating myself there, I guess. 18:41.220 --> 18:41.800 All right. 18:41.900 --> 18:43.060 Anyway, let's... 18:43.060 --> 18:46.280 I'm going to speed up through the email, because we spend way too much time on the email, and 18:46.280 --> 18:47.180 I'm slap happy. 18:47.260 --> 18:48.560 I need sleep, so... 18:48.560 --> 18:52.240 Our next email is from Gib Lee, who says, 18:52.620 --> 19:03.680 Hey, I have featured you on my station at www.rfpooner.info. 19:04.100 --> 19:06.220 I love your show, and just wanted to tell you about it. 19:06.260 --> 19:07.100 So, there you go. 19:07.180 --> 19:09.920 Shout-outs to rfpooner.info. 19:10.080 --> 19:11.220 Thank you for putting the show on. 19:11.840 --> 19:14.220 Also, what do you think about the Google account? 19:14.220 --> 19:18.700 With Yahoo, you get free email, GeoCities, photo account, briefcase, and instant message. 19:19.700 --> 19:21.440 There's actually a lot more to it than that. 19:21.520 --> 19:24.320 I'm not going to sit here and name all of them off, but point taken. 19:25.040 --> 19:27.400 Password gives you email, instant message, and groups. 19:27.580 --> 19:28.980 Google gives you email and groups. 19:29.340 --> 19:31.740 What do you think is the future of the Google account? 19:32.240 --> 19:36.040 I've heard about a Google instant message services and a Google browser. 19:36.200 --> 19:40.540 Since Google owns Blogger, do you think they may have a Yahoo GeoCities thing? 19:40.700 --> 19:45.880 I'm really liking the AdSense ads instead of pop-ups or banners that flash and stuff. 19:45.880 --> 19:52.640 If they keep it up, they will have a great service and give everyone a run for their money like they already have. 19:52.640 --> 19:56.220 Again, thank you for putting the show on. 19:56.260 --> 19:57.260 You're more than welcome to do it. 19:57.540 --> 19:58.780 The more people will listen to it. 19:58.800 --> 20:03.360 The more people that might learn something from it and like it or hate it, whatever. 20:04.920 --> 20:05.980 You're welcome to do it. 20:06.020 --> 20:06.760 I'm glad to hear it. 20:07.120 --> 20:09.160 Anybody that wants to do that, email me. 20:09.200 --> 20:09.620 Let me know. 20:09.720 --> 20:10.660 I'll pimp the site. 20:11.000 --> 20:12.520 Let people know that you're out there. 20:12.640 --> 20:14.440 They can check your site out and give you some links. 20:16.100 --> 20:16.880 As far as Google... 20:16.880 --> 20:20.080 The more people spread it around, the more people offer IHateStankDog.com, 20:20.080 --> 20:20.880 that will be... 20:20.880 --> 20:21.400 Oh, yes. 20:21.660 --> 20:22.400 That'll be... 20:22.400 --> 20:27.120 The IHateStankDog community will be like triple the size of the BinRev community. 20:29.300 --> 20:32.020 Because there'll be so much overlap, too, the hypocrites. 20:32.100 --> 20:33.220 But anyway, that's... 20:33.220 --> 20:33.960 Why are you pulling... 20:33.960 --> 20:36.920 I am from the Kevin Rose fan club asking me to register the site. 20:37.260 --> 20:37.920 Oh, man. 20:38.020 --> 20:38.240 Yeah. 20:39.440 --> 20:39.640 They... 20:39.640 --> 20:40.480 Oh, yeah. 20:40.600 --> 20:41.640 They'd swarm it, too. 20:42.640 --> 20:43.420 You know, and the thing... 20:43.420 --> 20:43.940 Well, never mind. 20:44.800 --> 20:46.060 You're trying to get me in trouble. 20:47.180 --> 20:47.640 No, me? 20:47.640 --> 20:51.460 You're pulling me off to try to get me off topic and get me in trouble. 20:52.180 --> 20:52.880 Okay, okay. 20:53.040 --> 20:53.400 Bad. 20:53.580 --> 20:54.400 Go back on. 20:54.660 --> 20:55.380 Bad ratchet. 20:55.660 --> 20:56.460 Bad black ratchet. 20:57.840 --> 20:58.200 Google. 20:58.700 --> 20:59.240 Yeah, Google... 20:59.240 --> 21:01.300 I mean, there's not really much to add to this. 21:01.400 --> 21:02.320 Google's the big dog. 21:02.380 --> 21:02.940 We know that. 21:03.080 --> 21:05.600 They're the ones, you know, running the block. 21:07.500 --> 21:08.420 They're innovating. 21:08.800 --> 21:10.160 You know, that's their whole thing. 21:10.460 --> 21:11.960 Innovate and innovate quickly. 21:12.500 --> 21:13.700 You know, that's their biggest thing. 21:13.700 --> 21:16.960 They're jumping ahead of everybody else, and everybody else is playing catch-up. 21:17.640 --> 21:18.640 So, like... 21:18.640 --> 21:21.400 Well, even the search engine itself was light years ahead of everyone. 21:22.040 --> 21:22.960 MSN's catching up. 21:23.120 --> 21:27.500 The MSN search, that beta or whatever, and Yahoo search also is very close to it. 21:27.540 --> 21:28.540 They're very similar now. 21:29.020 --> 21:30.080 Might be too little too late. 21:30.120 --> 21:30.520 I don't know. 21:30.600 --> 21:35.840 But at least they're offering a much beefier search engine than they did in the past. 21:37.400 --> 21:38.520 And one that kind of works. 21:38.560 --> 21:39.340 That's the amazing part. 21:39.340 --> 21:43.900 Yeah, I mean, it's pretty, you know, I've found similar hits on all of them. 21:44.860 --> 21:47.420 So, yeah, they're offering that kind of stuff, too. 21:47.520 --> 21:50.460 So, they're not staying still. 21:50.560 --> 21:51.320 They're moving, too. 21:52.260 --> 22:00.020 The biggest difference, though, is that with all the services that they're adding, they're not necessarily requiring you. 22:00.100 --> 22:02.040 Some things require you to have an account, like Gmail. 22:02.040 --> 22:04.520 But so much of their stuff is free. 22:04.700 --> 22:13.460 I mean, they've got so many things in the Google Labs and so many features that you don't have to register and sign up for and give your life story and all that kind of stuff like the others. 22:13.740 --> 22:16.980 That's a huge difference, and it's something that sets them apart. 22:17.740 --> 22:19.940 I think they'll also go away from that, however. 22:19.940 --> 22:28.060 I think they will end up making a universal account to access everything or at least to access advanced features of everything. 22:28.600 --> 22:30.560 Well, they sort of have one already. 22:30.680 --> 22:37.140 For example, when you sign up for, you know, you'll sign up one for email and you'll get, not the email, what's the other one? 22:37.340 --> 22:47.120 You'll sign up for one that does postings and, you know, Usenet and all that stuff, and you get all the email and groups, and that works as a single sign-on. 22:47.120 --> 22:50.840 And plus, when you do that, you can also get into the development program very easily. 22:51.240 --> 23:00.100 It's not an automatic thing, but you can go over and say, hey, here's my email, here's my password, and they'll sign you into the development program. 23:00.220 --> 23:01.920 I've been fooling around with that lately. 23:02.280 --> 23:02.620 Oh, yeah. 23:02.620 --> 23:17.080 Yeah, I have my developer account for a long time now that lets you embed Google into your pages and stuff like that and gives you some control over the type of searches and flavored searches or whatever you want to call it. 23:17.400 --> 23:21.160 So, but they don't, I mean, they do require for some things, but not for everything. 23:21.460 --> 23:22.020 You know, that's all. 23:22.200 --> 23:22.300 Yep. 23:22.400 --> 23:22.800 That's all. 23:23.140 --> 23:27.740 And, yeah, I do think they will eventually, but right now they don't, and that's going to help them grow. 23:27.740 --> 23:38.660 So, also, the biggest thing is that there's, Microsoft and Yahoo are trying to make money, they're burning their candles at both ends. 23:38.740 --> 23:40.620 They're trying to make money on the front end and the back end. 23:41.000 --> 23:46.060 And what I mean by that is they sell advertising on the site, like every other freaking internet site out there. 23:46.060 --> 23:51.660 They make money from the advertising, selling all those stupid banners and all those links and sponsored and blah, blah, blah. 23:52.320 --> 23:53.000 You know what? 23:53.060 --> 23:54.940 That's fine in and of itself. 23:55.020 --> 24:03.240 It can get annoying when they're too flashy and they allow them to get away with all these pop-ups and interactive Java this and et cetera, et cetera. 24:03.240 --> 24:15.300 But the problem is that they're also, then on top of that, trying to charge you for advanced features like pop-3 access to your email, some of the games. 24:15.520 --> 24:17.460 You know, they both offer games, which I don't think he mentioned. 24:18.000 --> 24:22.540 They'll charge you for some advanced games or to get past certain parts of games and things like that. 24:22.640 --> 24:28.760 They offer, you know, Yahoo does, Yahoo still offer the DSL services and stuff like that? 24:28.800 --> 24:30.460 Or is that, I think they ended that? 24:30.520 --> 24:30.940 I don't know. 24:30.940 --> 24:36.580 But anyway, they're trying to make money off of you on the front end as well as advertisers on the back end. 24:36.640 --> 24:37.760 And Google's not doing that. 24:37.920 --> 24:51.680 Google's sticking with their traditional advertising model and not obtrusive, not popping up everything, not flash animations, and not shaking banners that says, choke the rabbit to win a free whatever. 24:54.180 --> 24:56.180 That just sounds scary, but anyway. 24:56.600 --> 24:59.820 Yeah, I guess I could have said chicken or something, but whatever. 25:00.940 --> 25:09.460 See, that's what happens when you're, you know, popping off random things off the top of your head and you don't have any sleep. 25:09.460 --> 25:16.540 So, man, you're going to have to take over the show in a few minutes because I'm, whew, man, this is rough. 25:16.540 --> 25:21.540 So, yeah, the bottom line is it's going to take time to see how it shakes out. 25:21.640 --> 25:25.520 I don't, you know, I think Google's the biggest, the biggest dog in the fight. 25:25.680 --> 25:27.600 So, you know, my money's on them. 25:28.320 --> 25:29.160 So, we'll see. 25:29.360 --> 25:33.860 Right now, indeed, they are the front runner, but you can just tell that there's something going on on the horizon and it is coming. 25:34.140 --> 25:36.640 Well, they're not, you know Microsoft isn't giving anything up. 25:37.380 --> 25:37.940 Oh, hell no. 25:37.940 --> 25:41.420 You know, Microsoft is definitely going to be in there fighting no matter what. 25:41.520 --> 25:43.040 They know, you know, they know. 25:43.040 --> 25:45.000 They see that market share and they're just, like, drooling. 25:45.300 --> 25:46.700 Exactly, exactly. 25:47.300 --> 25:49.340 I think there was actually a thing on television yesterday. 25:49.680 --> 25:53.360 I don't watch a whole lot of it, but I happened to flip through and saw a thing about Google. 25:54.080 --> 26:00.980 I watched, like, five or ten minutes of it was all, I think it was, like, some kind of news, one of those news 60 Minutes shows or something. 26:00.980 --> 26:02.000 Yes, it was on 60 Minutes. 26:02.180 --> 26:03.020 Oh, I got it right. 26:03.080 --> 26:03.520 How about that? 26:04.200 --> 26:04.760 So, I didn't get to see it. 26:04.760 --> 26:05.480 I didn't see it either. 26:05.560 --> 26:08.900 I just heard a bunch of rumors about it today on various postings. 26:09.280 --> 26:09.980 I watched it. 26:09.980 --> 26:10.840 And I talked to one of my, uh. 26:12.720 --> 26:13.160 Go ahead. 26:13.860 --> 26:15.460 I talked to one of my customers today about it. 26:15.460 --> 26:15.900 Ah. 26:16.640 --> 26:21.120 I, um, I just watched it for a few minutes and, you know, it was interesting. 26:21.300 --> 26:25.200 I, if anybody recorded that, get in touch with me. 26:26.400 --> 26:27.040 That's all. 26:27.460 --> 26:28.440 No other reason. 26:28.440 --> 26:31.860 Just want to say hi. 26:32.060 --> 26:32.420 Exactly. 26:32.540 --> 26:34.080 No copyright violations going on here. 26:34.180 --> 26:36.060 Just saying, tell me what you thought of it. 26:37.160 --> 26:38.640 If you, of course, have it recorded. 26:38.780 --> 26:39.700 Otherwise, then, you know. 26:41.140 --> 26:41.500 Okay. 26:41.800 --> 26:42.800 So, anyway, that's that. 26:42.860 --> 26:45.500 Not much to add about the whole Google, Yahoo, MSN. 26:45.880 --> 26:47.000 That's pretty much played out. 26:47.040 --> 26:49.220 I think it's, I mean, I don't know. 26:49.320 --> 26:51.100 Actually, this next email mentions it, too. 26:51.620 --> 26:53.300 This is from somebody called, 26:53.300 --> 26:54.800 As We Think We-ism. 26:55.320 --> 26:56.440 As We Think We-ism. 26:56.440 --> 26:59.060 As We Think We-ism. 26:59.620 --> 27:00.120 Stank Dog. 27:00.180 --> 27:03.080 I don't know if you've been aware, but Yahoo is starting another service. 27:04.000 --> 27:06.440 If you thought they don't offer everything you really don't care about, 27:06.540 --> 27:09.680 they are now offering traffic reports for major U.S. cities. 27:10.180 --> 27:15.560 What's really stupid is the representative went to the Associated Press saying that the format would make it much more useful. 27:15.560 --> 27:23.400 Google is saying that the format that would make it much more useful, that is PDA format, in parentheses, will not be available. 27:24.280 --> 27:28.100 Google has been up to really interesting projects in their labs, and I mentioned that earlier. 27:28.220 --> 27:29.520 It's labs.google.com. 27:29.960 --> 27:33.540 And I fear that Google is heading down the path that Yahoo has went these past years. 27:33.660 --> 27:34.840 What do you think about this? 27:34.840 --> 27:43.960 Well, first of all, I don't think I ever said that they don't, they meaning Yahoo, or that don't offer useful services. 27:44.580 --> 27:47.060 My start page is still my.yahoo.com. 27:47.120 --> 27:51.300 I customize my Yahoo page, especially since they started adding the support for RSS feeds. 27:52.160 --> 27:54.060 So that's still the best start page. 27:54.140 --> 27:55.540 I know MSN offers them. 27:55.600 --> 27:57.520 A whole bunch of sites offer customized start pages. 27:57.600 --> 28:00.900 I still start on that because I have rootsecure.net right there. 28:00.900 --> 28:11.560 I have Slashdot, I have any of the RSS feeds that interest me right there on my page, as well as sports scores, my stocks that I watch, stock ticker going on, news headlines, stuff like that. 28:11.640 --> 28:16.640 So my Yahoo is still the king to me as far as customized, personalized start pages. 28:18.000 --> 28:22.960 So, you know, I don't want to think that they don't have anything to offer or don't have anything useful. 28:24.720 --> 28:26.280 Do you know of anything better? 28:26.380 --> 28:27.900 I mean, what is your start page? 28:27.960 --> 28:28.440 Is it Google? 28:29.540 --> 28:29.900 Slashdot. 28:29.900 --> 28:30.860 It is Slashdot. 28:30.860 --> 28:31.420 Okay, you start up. 28:31.480 --> 28:32.980 A lot of people start up on Slashdot. 28:33.480 --> 28:36.240 I kind of do because it's in my Yahoo page. 28:37.780 --> 28:40.980 Well, they've recently really started taking a hit performance-wise. 28:41.140 --> 28:48.160 And it's taking, it's more than likely now I've actually been loading up a blank page and by the, you know, or at least it looks like it by the time I click away from it. 28:49.720 --> 28:51.600 They've been having some performances on their servers. 28:53.640 --> 28:55.560 Taking a big drink of chocolate milk there. 28:56.440 --> 28:57.580 I thought I could get disconnected here. 28:57.580 --> 28:57.940 No. 28:57.940 --> 29:02.860 I do suspect that Google is going to come through with something similar. 29:03.400 --> 29:04.300 I mean, they have news. 29:04.620 --> 29:06.140 They have news on there now. 29:06.200 --> 29:06.780 They have Frugal. 29:07.440 --> 29:11.760 So they can pimp and put deals and specials and stuff like that. 29:12.080 --> 29:12.860 They've got news feeds. 29:12.980 --> 29:16.480 They've got, I'm sure they can get, or if they don't already have sports scores and things like that. 29:16.640 --> 29:19.400 I bet you Google will offer a customized content portal soon. 29:19.400 --> 29:21.320 I wouldn't be surprised. 29:21.680 --> 29:27.000 And also, he says that, like, you know, because Labs is looking into certain things, it's looking like they're going in the way of Yahoo. 29:27.500 --> 29:40.080 Labs looks into a lot of stuff that, and they provide stuff to people to playing against, A, for feedback, and B, you know, it's just more of, we're looking into a certain thing, but we really don't want to tell you what we're doing with it right now. 29:40.080 --> 29:48.280 So we're going to provide another application for you that, A, we can test on, B, we can give public reaction to, C, you can look at it, and, you know, D, we can test. 29:48.660 --> 29:49.020 Right. 29:49.020 --> 30:05.300 So a lot of stuff that they do, I've, you know, I've seen it shown up in certain areas, like, you know, their lists and everything, I don't know, was basically a real big play on their, like, you know, did you mean X things, and that's what it really looks for. 30:05.380 --> 30:07.260 Like, you know, it's really just expanding the search capability. 30:07.260 --> 30:13.560 So while, yes, Labs works on a lot of things, and a lot of it is you look at it and say, oh, why the heck are they doing this? 30:14.320 --> 30:22.420 It's because, it's just they're providing a front end of something that they need on the back end, and they'll just incorporate the back end to something else. 30:22.840 --> 30:23.160 Right. 30:23.700 --> 30:23.980 Right. 30:24.040 --> 30:25.520 And that's a very common practice. 30:25.620 --> 30:26.580 A lot of sites do that. 30:26.800 --> 30:31.060 You know, they're using the, you know, they're using the audience out there to beta test for them somewhat. 30:32.140 --> 30:33.960 And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. 30:33.960 --> 30:36.680 The users are getting something useful out of it or interesting out of it, so. 30:37.260 --> 30:38.720 Oh, I think Labs is awesome. 30:38.860 --> 30:40.300 I think they come up with some really cool stuff. 30:40.940 --> 30:43.820 I mean, you can tell, like, some of their stuff, like, you know, Google by phone. 30:44.340 --> 30:48.700 Yeah, okay, that's more like probably just like a pet project to somebody, but you never know. 30:49.480 --> 30:55.500 Yeah, I mean, well, wasn't it always, you know, the whole scientist versus marketing department? 30:55.600 --> 30:59.480 It's like, you guys just develop stuff, we'll figure out where to use it. 30:59.560 --> 31:01.920 We'll figure out how to apply it and make it useful, you know? 31:02.120 --> 31:06.960 I think it's to an extent of that, but I just think it's, they're working on certain things, 31:06.960 --> 31:16.480 but, like, you know, it's very much, like, you know, I believe what they do is they have someone go there 31:16.480 --> 31:22.240 and, like, you know, I think every, or Coot, their online community, whatever, 31:22.240 --> 31:27.360 basically that started as you're allowed one day every week to work on pet projects. 31:28.560 --> 31:28.920 Yeah. 31:28.920 --> 31:32.140 And I think that's what a lot of, I think that's what some of the stuff Labs just started out as. 31:32.660 --> 31:32.860 Hmm. 31:33.760 --> 31:34.120 Interesting. 31:35.600 --> 31:37.160 What, did you just fall off the roof there? 31:37.200 --> 31:37.620 What happened? 31:38.540 --> 31:40.700 No, I didn't do anything. 31:40.880 --> 31:40.920 Why? 31:41.180 --> 31:43.300 Oh, big crash or something there on the phone. 31:44.300 --> 31:47.740 This phone conversation brought to you by Voice Pulse and New Phone. 31:48.100 --> 31:49.460 Oh, wow, there we go. 31:49.640 --> 31:50.320 There's the answer. 31:51.880 --> 31:52.380 Let's see. 31:52.440 --> 31:58.780 Oh, yeah, but also, actually, this, I wanted to talk about this email because it is kind of a dumb move here. 31:58.780 --> 32:01.780 That could be useful on a PDA especially. 32:02.580 --> 32:06.280 I mean, you're in your car, you can look up driving at the last minute, 32:07.000 --> 32:12.260 look up where traffic information or weather information or any of that kind of stuff, 32:12.260 --> 32:14.960 but they're not going to offer it on the PDA? 32:15.060 --> 32:16.100 That seems kind of silly. 32:16.240 --> 32:16.760 I don't know. 32:18.020 --> 32:22.840 I mean, you can look at it before you leave your house, 32:22.960 --> 32:26.720 but frankly, I don't get up and look at my computer first thing in the morning, believe it or not, 32:27.060 --> 32:28.340 contrary to popular belief. 32:28.500 --> 32:32.340 I spend a lot of time on it in the evenings, but I don't get up and check it in the morning. 32:32.480 --> 32:36.100 I get up just enough time to hit the shower, hit the door running, 32:36.340 --> 32:40.120 screech my way into work right on time, sometimes. 32:40.120 --> 32:44.400 So, I don't budget extra time in the morning for the computer. 32:45.640 --> 32:51.100 So, yeah, it would be much more handy on a PDA, but there could be any number of reasons for that. 32:51.240 --> 32:54.280 I mean, it may be an outsourced product, maybe they've just licensed it, 32:54.700 --> 32:56.720 and they're not allowed to use it in certain ways. 32:56.800 --> 32:59.400 Maybe someone else has a patent on that. 32:59.580 --> 33:01.260 There could be so many different things. 33:01.520 --> 33:03.640 Oh, see, I had not thought of that. 33:03.720 --> 33:05.120 That's actually a very good point. 33:06.240 --> 33:08.280 I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened. 33:08.280 --> 33:10.440 Yeah, there could be any number of reasons. 33:10.760 --> 33:14.920 So, yeah, it does sound kind of stupid, but what are you going to do? 33:16.460 --> 33:20.480 And just because they don't do it themselves does not mean that you can't do it yourself. 33:21.160 --> 33:22.360 Well, and absolutely right. 33:22.440 --> 33:23.820 And actually, that's kind of a good segue. 33:24.420 --> 33:28.180 These last couple emails here are feedback to us. 33:28.680 --> 33:31.000 We got some good feedback about last week. 33:31.000 --> 33:38.480 We were talking about using a PDA for VoIP, for voice over IP, and what options there were and stuff like that. 33:38.540 --> 33:39.800 We got some good information. 33:39.920 --> 33:42.660 Voodoo Howl posted some information in the forums. 33:42.740 --> 33:44.200 Again, forums.binrev.com. 33:44.200 --> 33:46.920 And we got a couple emails. 33:47.120 --> 33:48.960 The first was from Nick84. 33:49.800 --> 33:51.500 And Nick84 says, 33:51.700 --> 33:56.460 On the last show, someone was asking about Pocket PCs, Packet Sniffers, and VoIP. 33:56.460 --> 34:10.500 I have a HP 5450 running PowerPC, excuse me, PPC-2003, Pocket PC, not Power PC, addition, which can run Mini Stumbler, also for VoIP. 34:11.180 --> 34:16.120 Skype has, has, has or have, has a PC, PPC client. 34:16.740 --> 34:21.620 When I tried an early beta version a while ago, it worked out, but the audio quality was not that great. 34:21.620 --> 34:31.280 There are a couple of other people doing PPC VoIP clients, and I believe some providers are offering it as an extra service, but I can't remember who offhand. 34:32.420 --> 34:37.980 There is also this site, which has some handy tools for PPC. 34:38.840 --> 34:40.600 And I tinyurled that site. 34:40.720 --> 34:48.860 When I say that site, it's tinyurl5ps, as in Photoshop, 9e, as in elephant. 34:49.860 --> 34:50.880 So, there's a... 34:50.880 --> 34:53.000 5, Papa, Sierra, 9e, Echo. 34:53.320 --> 34:54.760 Oh, good grief. Hammer. 34:56.540 --> 35:00.000 Uh, 5, PS9e. 35:00.140 --> 35:03.220 So, yes, go check that site out for some cool tools. 35:03.740 --> 35:04.660 And another email. 35:04.880 --> 35:09.220 This is from, this one actually comes from the webmaster of pdafreak.biz. 35:09.220 --> 35:30.800 Who says, Binrev Crew, regarding the listener's mail about VoIP on the pocket PC, and to blatantly exploit this opportunity, head over to pdafreak.biz, specifically to how to use a pocket PC as a Wi-Fi phone at pdafreakbiz slash freak slash Wi-Fi phone dot html. 35:30.800 --> 35:37.340 Uh, I have, I use Vonage and have been pleased with the $10 a month soft phone line and SJ phone. 35:37.460 --> 35:42.480 Note that the numbers, note that phone numbers are passed in the clear when using public Wi-Fi. 35:42.480 --> 35:45.020 Oh, that's a very, very important point. 35:45.120 --> 35:47.180 I'm glad that's a good, good thing to bring up. 35:47.860 --> 35:48.840 Very true, very true. 35:48.940 --> 35:52.800 You can have all the color ID blocking, et cetera, et cetera, you want, but, hmm. 35:52.800 --> 35:59.120 Um, as for the PPC sniffer, there's Air Scanner Mobile Sniffer, uh, airscanner.com. 35:59.600 --> 36:05.440 Supported, support stopped at PPC 02, so no dice for WMO3 and 03SE. 36:06.220 --> 36:13.680 Then there's, then there's VX Sniffer from cam.com, uh, which costs $60. 36:14.100 --> 36:15.480 There is a free trial, though. 36:16.020 --> 36:21.000 And I'm not reading out all these long URLs, but, uh, let's see, what else, well, before I go to that. 36:21.000 --> 36:27.820 Bonus for Freaks with PDAs, I coded handheld-friendly pages for the Telefreaks dial-ups, for Telefreaks dial-ups. 36:28.160 --> 36:31.880 And this prompted them to create an entire small screen-friendly Telefreak.org. 36:32.200 --> 36:34.940 It's at Telefreak.org slash mini. 36:35.720 --> 36:36.900 Thanks for the great show. 36:36.920 --> 36:37.580 And I'm going to bookmark that. 36:37.680 --> 36:37.920 Hello. 36:38.400 --> 36:40.000 Thanks for the great show. 36:40.720 --> 36:42.740 And, again, webmaster of pdafreak.biz. 36:42.800 --> 36:50.500 Now, again, he gave us a lot of links here, but, frankly, go to pdafreak.biz and you'll find all that and a lot more. 36:51.500 --> 36:52.700 Um, it's a great site. 36:52.760 --> 36:59.320 If you're a freak with a PDA, and there are a lot of them now, PDAs are really a cool, handy device. 36:59.660 --> 37:04.040 I need to get one myself, a good one, instead of junky ones that I have, the old ones. 37:04.440 --> 37:06.060 I need to break down and get a new one. 37:06.060 --> 37:07.880 I'm thinking of that HPX. 37:08.120 --> 37:10.060 No, is it the Motorola MPX? 37:10.060 --> 37:17.480 That's looking pretty cool, where I can combine the PDA and PowerPocket PC with the phone and everything. 37:18.380 --> 37:19.260 Might break down and get that. 37:19.260 --> 37:19.980 I'll look into that one. 37:20.000 --> 37:20.580 I haven't heard of that. 37:20.760 --> 37:21.080 Oh, yeah. 37:21.140 --> 37:22.680 That looks really, really cool. 37:22.740 --> 37:24.120 It's not out yet, but it should be out. 37:24.120 --> 37:27.560 I think they said the second half of 05 or first half of 05 or something. 37:28.780 --> 37:32.980 And, actually, I would like to say that last week I did say that there, I believe there 37:32.980 --> 37:38.240 is no such thing as a free, user-customizable PDA Wi-Fi phone client. 37:38.240 --> 37:40.160 That is a lie, sort of. 37:40.500 --> 37:40.860 Liar. 37:41.120 --> 37:43.180 There's something called X-Lite. 37:43.820 --> 37:54.900 And what X-Lite is, it is a free, SIP-compliant, GSM, G723, and G711U-compliant Wi-Fi phone. 37:55.700 --> 38:01.000 And what it does, now, what happened is they do not make it anymore. 38:01.140 --> 38:03.860 However, you can still find it in bits and pieces on the Internet. 38:03.860 --> 38:08.620 I had to look for it a little bit on Google, but I was able to find it, and I was able 38:08.620 --> 38:12.120 to install it, and I was sort of able to connect it to my asterisk box. 38:12.240 --> 38:17.340 I'm having a problem on my asterisk end, but once that all is figured out, I figure it 38:17.340 --> 38:20.340 should work like a charm, because it appears to work fine. 38:21.120 --> 38:25.320 I worked it up on a couple other SIP servers, and they work fine. 38:25.760 --> 38:30.780 But other than that, it's a really good program, from what I can tell, and I'm just really 38:30.780 --> 38:32.780 going to sit down and flake around on my asterisk box. 38:32.780 --> 38:34.020 Cool. 38:34.460 --> 38:35.500 Good information. 38:35.680 --> 38:37.720 So this is very, this is a hot topic. 38:37.820 --> 38:42.160 A lot of people are interested in this kind of stuff right now, so there's a lot of information 38:42.160 --> 38:44.340 popping up on a daily basis, it seems like. 38:44.380 --> 38:49.440 So keep your eyes open in the forums, and around, and email us, and post in the forums 38:49.440 --> 38:52.600 if you find some good stuff, because there are definitely lots of people interested in 38:52.600 --> 38:54.020 this exact topic right now. 38:54.020 --> 38:57.540 And again, to PimpPDAFreak.biz. 38:57.640 --> 39:01.980 That's P-D-A-P-H-R-E-A-K dot B-I-Z. 39:02.860 --> 39:06.680 Again, there's a lot of cool information on there. 39:07.140 --> 39:08.300 And the pictures. 39:08.600 --> 39:13.160 There's some really cool pictures of different pay phones in different places. 39:14.160 --> 39:14.680 Pay phones? 39:14.840 --> 39:15.000 What? 39:15.000 --> 39:19.260 Yeah, different pay phones, and courtesy phones, and all kinds of different phones. 39:19.940 --> 39:24.300 There's, the picture of the pay phone in the bathroom stall, that's classic. 39:24.780 --> 39:26.000 That's such a great picture. 39:26.240 --> 39:27.240 That's such a great picture. 39:27.300 --> 39:28.420 You've got to go check the site out. 39:28.420 --> 39:29.280 P-D-A-Freak.biz. 39:29.280 --> 39:30.140 I'm going to go to the bathroom. 39:30.620 --> 39:30.780 Yeah. 39:31.420 --> 39:35.520 And that's, do you really want to touch a phone that's in the bathroom stall? 39:35.640 --> 39:36.300 Because who knows? 39:36.700 --> 39:39.040 Never mind, I'm going to back off that so fast. 39:39.500 --> 39:41.200 That's why they have toilet paper. 39:41.420 --> 39:45.700 I didn't say toilet, anyway. 39:47.540 --> 39:51.240 Our last email, I'm going to quickly get on to a main topic here. 39:51.780 --> 39:54.720 Our last email comes from a Mr. Miller, who says, 39:54.720 --> 39:55.700 Hello, Mr. Dog. 39:55.700 --> 39:59.060 I was just listening to the third telephonic craptacular 39:59.060 --> 40:03.380 and felt I had to add my two cents to the topic of the big bells being in bed with the FCC. 40:04.540 --> 40:09.000 Now, I do not believe that any blame can be placed on the bells themselves. 40:09.180 --> 40:13.680 They have every right to attempt to wring every last red cent out of their customers that they can, 40:14.120 --> 40:16.040 within the full extent of the law, that is. 40:17.120 --> 40:18.160 Well, let me stop for a little bit. 40:18.700 --> 40:19.500 Any blame? 40:20.140 --> 40:21.340 No, I won't go that far. 40:21.340 --> 40:24.700 I do think they deserve some blame because they're giving – 40:24.700 --> 40:27.560 they're the ones that are lobbying and pushing the FCC, 40:27.860 --> 40:31.540 and if you don't think they're giving false information, skewed information, 40:31.800 --> 40:33.760 statistics that serve their purpose, 40:34.320 --> 40:38.160 falsifying them to make it look better for them to make the FCC make decisions, 40:38.700 --> 40:39.300 I think that's kind of naive. 40:39.300 --> 40:40.060 Please contact me. 40:40.120 --> 40:41.100 I have a bridge to sell you. 40:41.280 --> 40:41.540 Yeah. 40:41.760 --> 40:43.060 I think that's very, very naive. 40:43.060 --> 40:47.800 See, what's with the .org? 40:48.820 --> 40:50.380 .org or .org? 40:50.460 --> 40:51.900 Because, I mean, you got orgy on the mind? 40:51.940 --> 40:52.760 Is it a Freudian slip? 40:53.340 --> 40:54.360 It's .org. 40:54.660 --> 40:55.380 .organization. 40:55.600 --> 40:56.720 It's, you know, it's a – 40:56.720 --> 40:57.600 .org. 40:59.600 --> 41:00.660 Hey, that would be a good – 41:00.660 --> 41:01.320 That would be a proper pronunciation. 41:01.840 --> 41:02.740 Yeah, that would be a good – 41:02.740 --> 41:04.800 well, it's not orginization. 41:06.380 --> 41:07.380 It's organization. 41:08.520 --> 41:10.480 I want to get .dot. 41:10.480 --> 41:10.560 .dot. 41:11.600 --> 41:12.680 Oh, good grief. 41:13.180 --> 41:13.780 .dot. 41:14.360 --> 41:14.760 .slash. 41:14.840 --> 41:15.040 . 41:15.040 --> 41:17.060 Remember, when slash. first came out, 41:17.140 --> 41:19.880 that was, like, the funniest URL because it was – 41:19.880 --> 41:21.400 you were trying to describe it to people. 41:21.520 --> 41:22.840 .dot.com. 41:22.960 --> 41:23.160 . 41:23.160 --> 41:23.240 . 41:23.240 --> 41:23.780 Whatever. 41:24.600 --> 41:27.240 Well, me and Rob Baldo, we want the .dot domain. 41:27.780 --> 41:29.160 So he can have, like, you know, 41:29.200 --> 41:32.380 hdp colon slash slash slash dot dot dot. 41:35.260 --> 41:37.600 All right, man, you almost made me spit out my chocolate milk there. 41:38.520 --> 41:39.420 That could be messy. 41:39.420 --> 41:42.120 Anyway, so, yeah, I don't think – 41:42.120 --> 41:46.000 I don't blame the Bells as much as I blame the FCC. 41:46.260 --> 41:46.740 Don't get me wrong. 41:46.800 --> 41:50.140 I do think it's the FCC's fault because they're the ones ultimately making these decisions. 41:50.520 --> 41:57.560 But you're foolish to think that the Bells are not having some influence to make those – push those decisions. 41:57.560 --> 42:01.320 So, he says, this is just capitalism. 42:02.040 --> 42:07.680 The problem, I believe, lies with the laws set forth by the FCC that allow these big Bells to walk all over their customers. 42:07.760 --> 42:10.000 Well, again, I just said I think they influence that. 42:10.000 --> 42:17.160 And he goes on to some other stuff here that I'm not going to read all of this because it kind of gets political and we're not a political show. 42:17.160 --> 42:22.640 But I'll just say that there is, frankly, an interesting parallel here. 42:22.740 --> 42:29.660 There's a parallelism about the function of the FCC and what their job is and what their description and what their goal is. 42:29.660 --> 42:39.780 And, number six, from the Communist Manifesto, which is Government Control of Communication and Transportation. 42:42.100 --> 42:46.280 I'm just saying it sounds awfully – very closely related. 42:46.580 --> 42:51.820 I mean, that's – you know, people might not like to hear that, but I do seem to think there's some merit there. 42:51.860 --> 42:56.860 But I'm not going to read all of these nine, ten planks of communism and all that kind of stuff. 42:56.860 --> 42:59.760 If you're interested in that parallel, you can go do some Googling for it. 43:00.100 --> 43:01.580 So that's all I'm going to talk about. 43:01.580 --> 43:02.720 It's on Project Gutenberg, I believe. 43:03.260 --> 43:05.880 Yeah, I think it probably – I think you're right. 43:06.180 --> 43:09.420 And you can read about the parallelism itself and make your own decision. 43:09.980 --> 43:12.000 I don't want to go into, you know, politics. 43:12.220 --> 43:14.360 So let's move on to the show and tell, actually. 43:14.420 --> 43:20.940 Let's get out of email, do a quick show and tell, and then go into our main topic of the night. 43:22.020 --> 43:26.180 I tell you what, since I'm talking and you're going to take over the rest of the show once I'm done, 43:26.860 --> 43:35.000 I'll go ahead and go first because I've been having some hardware problems related to Hack TV. 43:36.500 --> 43:44.100 Video editing, especially high-quality files, which we do everything in DV format, raw, DV AVI format, 43:44.660 --> 43:50.000 very extremely high-quality video footage, and it just has such a huge overhead. 43:50.300 --> 43:52.160 It requires a powerful machine. 43:52.160 --> 43:53.740 Obviously, the more powerful, the better. 43:55.740 --> 44:06.460 Up to this point, I've been doing it on a P4 2.4, but it's slow-going and limited, frequent – I won't say frequent, but occasional crashes. 44:07.440 --> 44:09.020 So I upgraded to a new box. 44:09.080 --> 44:14.920 I got a P4 3 gigahertz box dedicated to doing this, but I only had 512 of RAM. 44:14.920 --> 44:20.600 And, frankly, I was getting not responding, applications locking up. 44:20.640 --> 44:21.560 It's just not enough memory. 44:21.640 --> 44:28.540 When you've got a 14, 15 gigabyte AVI file that you need to edit and try to clip together and stuff, 44:28.640 --> 44:35.680 and you've got to load 15 gigs into 512 megs of memory, something's got to give, you know? 44:35.680 --> 44:43.320 So I upgraded the hardware on that to a gig of memory, and I've been working again on that, so that's coming along. 44:44.440 --> 44:45.940 And, actually, I have a little rant. 44:46.080 --> 44:53.820 I had a – while I was out shopping for that memory, memory and more tapes, more mini DV tapes for my camera, 44:54.700 --> 45:03.140 I went out, found some tapes on sale, searching the interweb, and I came across this site called ecost.com. 45:03.140 --> 45:06.260 Now, I don't know if anybody's familiar with it, ecost.com. 45:06.740 --> 45:10.920 I actually hesitate to mention their URL on the air because I don't want anybody to use them. 45:11.100 --> 45:12.400 They have the problems I did. 45:13.220 --> 45:19.160 But, basically, they had these tapes that were on sale, and, first of all, it was a pain to try to find the damn things, 45:19.200 --> 45:21.720 to put them in my cart and figure out how their process worked. 45:21.860 --> 45:24.500 It wasn't as straightforward as it should have and could have been. 45:25.200 --> 45:29.920 But what I didn't like about it is, very clearly, it says on the site, 45:29.920 --> 45:31.840 no shipping for orders over $25. 45:31.840 --> 45:34.780 So, I'm like, okay, great. 45:34.880 --> 45:36.760 You know, I ordered this thing, and I ordered something else. 45:36.860 --> 45:38.680 I had, like, a $30 order in my cart. 45:38.760 --> 45:39.700 It should have been no shipping. 45:40.660 --> 45:45.840 And to check out of this, they don't let you do it without creating an account. 45:46.240 --> 45:48.120 They won't let you do it with just an email address. 45:48.200 --> 45:50.060 They require you to create an account, first of all. 45:50.100 --> 45:52.300 Well, that alone usually turns me off from a site. 45:52.900 --> 45:54.080 But this was a good deal. 45:54.160 --> 45:54.940 I needed the tapes. 45:54.980 --> 45:59.660 I was going to go through with it anyway and give them my spam email address to confirm it or whatever. 45:59.660 --> 46:03.220 And I went ahead and went through that process. 46:03.220 --> 46:09.700 And then at the very last second, after confirming, yes, here's my information, here's my credit card number, 46:09.820 --> 46:11.740 I verified the quantities, et cetera, et cetera. 46:11.820 --> 46:15.120 At the very last second, on the last page, it says click here to finalize order. 46:15.760 --> 46:16.200 Bam. 46:16.720 --> 46:17.540 Shipping, $0. 46:18.660 --> 46:22.280 Handling charge, $4.99 or $4 or something like that. 46:22.280 --> 46:28.180 Now, Helen, that's just, that's just, I'm sorry, but that's just fucking rude. 46:29.140 --> 46:30.580 That's just sickening. 46:30.620 --> 46:31.680 That turns my stomach. 46:31.880 --> 46:36.660 To put it on the last page like that, I mean, that's a bald-faced lie. 46:36.820 --> 46:38.960 Free shipping, oh, but there's a handling charge. 46:39.000 --> 46:43.600 We didn't mention that anywhere except on this very last page. 46:44.160 --> 46:46.040 Did they mention that there was no handling charge? 46:46.400 --> 46:47.380 No, of course not. 46:47.820 --> 46:48.300 Of course not. 46:48.300 --> 46:52.100 Now, there is, that's an exercise left for the consumer. 46:52.320 --> 46:59.100 Yeah, and the thing is, and you know everybody, I probably, there is a little thing that says to calculate your final total, 46:59.520 --> 47:01.220 put in your zip code or something like that. 47:01.620 --> 47:05.600 Well, I'm like, listen, you're going to make me go to the account anyway, so I'm just going to go through the process. 47:05.600 --> 47:11.040 Maybe if I put the zip code in, it would have then told me about the handling charge before, but nobody does that. 47:11.340 --> 47:13.100 You're going to decide you're going to go through with the order. 47:13.200 --> 47:14.080 You go through the process. 47:14.200 --> 47:15.860 They can't drop that on you at the last minute. 47:15.920 --> 47:16.640 That's ridiculous. 47:16.640 --> 47:19.620 Oh, but they can, and they have. 47:19.800 --> 47:22.160 And they did, and now I'm in their stupid database. 47:23.060 --> 47:24.460 I'll probably get spam from them. 47:24.500 --> 47:28.560 Luckily, I gave them my crappy spam account, but I'm going to be in their database. 47:28.760 --> 47:32.060 Who knows who else they'll sell that database to now, and I didn't even get what I wanted. 47:32.120 --> 47:33.740 I didn't even go through and buy the damn thing. 47:33.820 --> 47:35.300 I canceled at the last minute. 47:35.380 --> 47:37.080 I don't go for tactics like that. 47:37.340 --> 47:38.340 I'll get them somewhere else. 47:38.360 --> 47:39.060 I don't need you. 47:40.080 --> 47:42.080 That's what best lies for, ripping me off. 47:43.900 --> 47:44.680 Not anymore, though. 47:44.680 --> 47:46.180 I've gotten off of that kick, too. 47:47.700 --> 47:48.560 So, yeah. 47:48.560 --> 47:49.280 It's free. 47:49.500 --> 47:52.620 It's free from the horrors of Best Buy and eCost.com. 47:52.760 --> 47:53.600 I'm terribly sorry. 47:53.760 --> 47:55.500 My UPS has been beeping in the background. 47:56.080 --> 47:58.240 Oh, I don't think it's coming through, so don't worry about it. 47:58.880 --> 47:59.260 Okay. 47:59.260 --> 48:05.780 And the only other thing I wanted to mention was that I also installed the new Clusty toolbar for Firefox. 48:06.140 --> 48:09.920 Now, some of you might remember it was on episode 65. 48:10.240 --> 48:11.720 It was quite a few months ago, actually. 48:11.720 --> 48:25.960 I mentioned about Clusty, Clusty.com search engine, and how cool I thought it was, and about how it clusters the search results, and it was based on or similar to the Vissimo, except that it was a little bit more independent. 48:25.960 --> 48:37.660 Well, I guess people are starting to find out how cool it is, the interest is starting to grow on that, and what kind of cool relationships you'll find between what you're looking for and some other things you might not have thought of. 48:37.900 --> 48:42.900 So, go out there and do a Clusty search for yourself or for your handle or nickname and see what else they have you associated with. 48:43.260 --> 48:44.260 You might be surprised. 48:44.260 --> 48:48.080 So, there's a toolbar for Firefox, a plug-in. 48:48.440 --> 48:49.260 Go check that out. 48:49.320 --> 48:50.560 That's kind of a cool thing to me. 48:50.680 --> 48:54.380 I've got it and use it occasionally, so I just wanted to let people know about that. 48:55.320 --> 48:57.040 Yeah, I found that out on Kevin Rose's site. 48:58.360 --> 48:59.120 Oh, really? 49:00.080 --> 49:00.500 I'm sorry. 49:00.540 --> 49:03.880 Did you say episode 65 of BinRev Radio several months ago? 49:04.740 --> 49:05.220 Oh, yes. 49:05.260 --> 49:05.720 That's what I've been. 49:05.760 --> 49:05.860 Sorry. 49:05.860 --> 49:06.220 Yeah, okay. 49:06.520 --> 49:09.120 For a second there, I thought you said something else, but no. 49:09.300 --> 49:09.880 Oh, geez. 49:10.100 --> 49:12.000 It must be voice pulse. 49:12.260 --> 49:13.000 Yeah, exactly. 49:13.000 --> 49:15.260 Okay, see, voice pulse makes us say things like that. 49:15.900 --> 49:16.800 How about show and tell? 49:16.840 --> 49:17.440 What do you got, man? 49:17.460 --> 49:18.680 What do you got going on? 49:19.500 --> 49:22.940 Oh, past week, like I said, I've been fooling around with Asterisk a little more. 49:23.580 --> 49:27.640 I've been just goofing off and doing crazy things with that with a couple of my friends, 49:27.640 --> 49:35.620 and we've been popping our Asterisk boxes together so we can just dial each other direct and reach all of our extensions. 49:37.020 --> 49:42.580 We've been basically setting up our own little telephone company over the wide web of the Internet. 49:43.000 --> 49:46.160 Yeah, everybody's got their own telephone company these days, thanks to Asterisk. 49:46.860 --> 49:53.840 Yeah, Asterisk is, I will not say, I'm not exaggerating, it is literally the best thing since sliced bread. 49:54.240 --> 49:55.780 I'm talking to you over it right now. 49:55.880 --> 49:56.900 It is very cool. 49:56.960 --> 49:57.860 It is just completely awesome. 49:57.860 --> 49:59.520 Yeah, it absolutely is. 49:59.660 --> 50:00.440 It really is. 50:01.520 --> 50:05.880 And I've been taking, I've been having fun making my own custom error messages. 50:06.540 --> 50:13.600 I've been pulling stuff off phone trips.com, which is recordings of old 1970s phone systems, 50:13.800 --> 50:16.820 and viewing the recordings there for my own nefarious purposes. 50:17.200 --> 50:17.620 Uh-huh. 50:17.620 --> 50:21.920 All right, and what else you got going on? 50:22.840 --> 50:23.860 Well, that's about it. 50:23.900 --> 50:27.560 I've been concentrating on work a little bit, and besides that, I've been goofing off on Asterisk. 50:27.560 --> 50:31.560 And I've been working on something else, which I might mention later on. 50:31.860 --> 50:32.460 Don't know yet. 50:33.180 --> 50:36.560 All right, well then, let's jump into our main topic tonight. 50:37.520 --> 50:37.760 Wiki! 50:38.440 --> 50:40.500 Yeah, kind of a branch off of last week. 50:40.860 --> 50:42.920 And here's how it's going to work tonight. 50:42.920 --> 50:49.220 Last week, I wanted to get this wiki information in, which, I'm sorry, this Mambo information in, 50:49.260 --> 50:54.600 which is a content management system, and I pretty much dominated the entire conversation 50:54.600 --> 50:57.740 because I was trying so hard to get all my material in at the end of the show. 50:58.180 --> 50:59.540 So today is payback. 50:59.620 --> 51:00.680 Today you've got the show. 51:00.760 --> 51:01.860 Let me see how we're set here. 51:02.460 --> 51:07.840 You've got at least a half an hour, at least a half an hour, and you're going to talk about Wiki. 51:07.900 --> 51:10.220 I'll probably pop in with some questions or something about it, 51:10.220 --> 51:13.240 but Wiki is something that you've had some experience with, 51:13.560 --> 51:16.600 and a lot of people might have heard the name but never played with it before, 51:16.800 --> 51:20.380 so I thought we'd kind of do a little, well, not a little overview, 51:20.540 --> 51:24.140 just a downright analysis of exactly what it is, how it works, and that kind of stuff. 51:24.500 --> 51:26.380 So Crash Course in Wikis. 51:26.500 --> 51:27.120 Go for it. 51:27.480 --> 51:28.960 Brought to you by Professor Ratchet. 51:29.720 --> 51:32.840 Well, what we're going to start off with is what exactly is a wiki. 51:33.380 --> 51:36.660 And a wiki is what you would call something called social software. 51:36.660 --> 51:40.400 It's designed to be a completely collaborative web page. 51:40.780 --> 51:42.920 It's basically designed to be run by a community. 51:43.140 --> 51:46.780 Any person, anybody, anywhere, complete stranger off the Internet, you know, 51:47.000 --> 51:51.660 can edit and create and design and reformat any part of the website. 51:52.520 --> 51:55.160 Basically what you could say is one step above a forum, 51:55.260 --> 51:58.140 where instead of someone like, you know, I'm signing on to Bidrev, 51:58.420 --> 52:01.480 and I have like, you know, hey, check out this cool new website, 52:01.480 --> 52:05.780 and like, you know, people commenting, you know, hey, that website sucks, you're a noob. 52:06.280 --> 52:10.980 People can just like, you know, go up and edit my post exactly and say like, you know, 52:11.320 --> 52:13.040 oh, man, this website stinks. 52:13.140 --> 52:15.200 We should have never posted it on the forum in the first place. 52:15.320 --> 52:15.780 Yeah, I know. 52:15.840 --> 52:20.000 And just like, you know, instead of creating threads that people can comment on, 52:20.060 --> 52:23.560 you can basically edit the original thing and just have a thread within the web page. 52:23.760 --> 52:24.780 And not even have a thread. 52:24.900 --> 52:26.880 I mean, you can just like correct typos if you want to. 52:26.880 --> 52:32.800 So basically one of the key concepts of a wiki is that mistakes are easier to fix 52:32.800 --> 52:34.440 rather than mistakes being hard to fix. 52:35.100 --> 52:37.800 Like a very good example of this is Slashdot. 52:37.900 --> 52:39.640 And I'm not trying to knock Slashdot in any way. 52:39.820 --> 52:41.220 Like I said, I have it from my home page. 52:41.300 --> 52:41.700 I love it. 52:42.020 --> 52:43.180 It's a very good news site. 52:43.720 --> 52:46.520 But like, you know, every once in a while, one of the editors, like, you know, 52:46.560 --> 52:50.200 posts this website or posts this story, and it's either, you know, 52:50.200 --> 52:53.700 a duplicate of something that happened last week or, like, you know, 52:53.860 --> 52:56.400 just something that's completely wrong or, you know, 52:56.400 --> 52:58.760 if someone knows it's a hoax, and like, you know, 52:58.800 --> 53:01.760 all the little trolls in the comments section, you know, 53:01.820 --> 53:04.980 comment on how the editors and noob and everything. 53:05.640 --> 53:06.160 Are you going to say something? 53:06.440 --> 53:07.700 No, I'm just agreeing with you. 53:07.760 --> 53:09.700 All the trolls in the comments. 53:09.920 --> 53:11.960 I mean, I've never, there's so many trolls. 53:14.620 --> 53:16.320 Slashdot has their own troll community. 53:16.660 --> 53:17.600 It's quite scary. 53:17.760 --> 53:18.380 It really is. 53:18.460 --> 53:20.160 They are incredibly organized. 53:20.160 --> 53:22.440 It's kind of, it's freaking almost. 53:22.840 --> 53:24.000 The anonymous coward army. 53:25.260 --> 53:26.160 Not even that. 53:26.160 --> 53:28.460 It's like, they create accounts, which is really weird. 53:28.600 --> 53:32.580 But, you know, basically what would be solved in this, 53:32.640 --> 53:36.020 if it was a wiki, is that any of these people in the peanut gallery 53:36.020 --> 53:39.720 can come up and, you know, edit the article saying, like, you know, 53:39.860 --> 53:41.400 oh, this was duplicate from last week. 53:41.520 --> 53:43.360 You know, here's some other stuff we found about it. 53:43.420 --> 53:45.360 But basically, if you want to find anything out about it, 53:45.360 --> 53:47.500 go to this link that we posted last week. 53:48.620 --> 53:50.200 Or they could delete the article altogether. 53:50.200 --> 53:54.640 And that's basically what the concept of a wiki is. 53:54.720 --> 53:56.320 Well, but let me ask, let me ask you this, though, 53:56.340 --> 53:59.400 because you made the statement that it's kind of a step above a forum, 53:59.900 --> 54:02.200 which I kind of see what you mean by that. 54:02.340 --> 54:06.680 But by the nature of a forum and it being, uh-oh, 54:07.600 --> 54:11.280 by the nature of the, yeah, I think I've got another call breaking through 54:11.280 --> 54:12.320 that I'm just going to have to ignore. 54:13.120 --> 54:17.900 I should drop their docs on the air and read their number out loud to everybody. 54:18.680 --> 54:19.540 Oh, that was very cool. 54:19.600 --> 54:20.440 I heard the beep go through. 54:20.720 --> 54:21.720 Oh, yeah, there you go. 54:21.820 --> 54:22.480 All right, it's gone. 54:24.060 --> 54:26.880 That's what's called, that's a term that we made up a few years ago 54:26.880 --> 54:28.780 called having your show RFA'd. 54:29.580 --> 54:30.440 Radio Freak America. 54:32.300 --> 54:33.920 I should have disabled that other line. 54:33.920 --> 54:37.360 But anyway, got to have an RFA in the show every once in a while. 54:38.000 --> 54:41.400 What I was going to say was you mentioned about the threads and, you know, 54:41.400 --> 54:44.680 you mentioned the forum and posting and threads. 54:44.780 --> 54:47.200 Well, by the nature, you have topical threads, 54:47.640 --> 54:53.160 logical topical threads that lend to being replied to in order or in sequence. 54:53.560 --> 54:59.420 With the wiki, it becomes important to maintain a logical, 54:59.740 --> 55:02.100 because of the, because of, like you said, it is so freestyle, 55:02.940 --> 55:05.440 it could, it has the potential to be very chaotic, 55:05.580 --> 55:09.380 whereas a forum by nature is very, very strict. 55:09.440 --> 55:10.040 You know what I'm trying to say? 55:10.040 --> 55:12.160 It's a very strict layout, and it follows a certain pattern. 55:12.240 --> 55:12.520 Right. 55:12.620 --> 55:14.140 And that is one of the problems with wiki. 55:14.280 --> 55:16.200 I used to refer to it as wiki syndrome. 55:16.740 --> 55:18.560 Like, you know, when you start having a lot of people 55:18.560 --> 55:21.180 who just really don't pay attention to what other people are doing, 55:21.460 --> 55:24.040 you start running, you have, like, a wealth of information there, 55:24.100 --> 55:26.160 but it's just so hard to get to. 55:26.820 --> 55:28.280 And it's one of the drawbacks. 55:28.280 --> 55:31.580 I will admit, it isn't perfect, but it is a very interesting term, 55:31.900 --> 55:33.480 and a very interesting setup. 55:34.120 --> 55:38.160 And, like, you know, with replacing, like, you know, going back to the forum analogy, 55:38.560 --> 55:41.580 it is kind of freestyle, but you can, like, you know, pump up certain sections. 55:41.580 --> 55:44.840 Like, you know, if I have a site that a lot of people like, you know, 55:44.920 --> 55:46.380 and it starts feeding into research, 55:46.780 --> 55:48.700 people can start posting other information about the site. 55:48.800 --> 55:51.720 Whoa, geez, I talked to, I actually, you know, did the who is on the guy, 55:51.760 --> 55:54.460 and I called him up the other day, and we had a nice conversation. 55:55.080 --> 55:56.940 And, like, you know, people can just edit it in. 55:57.060 --> 56:02.000 So, and once you move to, like, sort of a less malleable state, 56:02.080 --> 56:04.300 like, you know, everything basically has been documented about this, 56:04.500 --> 56:09.080 you have this wonderful, like, you know, glob of information sitting on your site 56:09.080 --> 56:10.760 that you can link into other things. 56:11.620 --> 56:16.280 And that's basically one of the main advantages of it is a nice, you know, pre-digested bit, 56:16.360 --> 56:18.380 and then, like, you know, if something doesn't fit in, 56:18.380 --> 56:21.380 you can go and edit that post later and, you know, like, 56:22.340 --> 56:25.180 change it all around a little more to make it sort of have more sense. 56:25.280 --> 56:28.520 It's just everyone can edit it, everyone can make sure it has sense, 56:28.600 --> 56:30.480 and everyone can contribute to it. 56:31.020 --> 56:32.200 Does that make even a little more sense? 56:32.300 --> 56:35.060 Yeah, and I still hate the word wiki, just for the record. 56:36.140 --> 56:39.940 Well, actually, the term wiki comes from back in 1995. 56:40.240 --> 56:42.160 The guy who first wrote his name was Ward Cunningham. 56:42.700 --> 56:45.780 He came up with the wiki concept and came up with the first engine 56:45.780 --> 56:47.720 for the Portland Pattern Repository. 56:48.380 --> 56:50.740 And he came up with the term wiki, wiki, web. 56:51.180 --> 56:52.280 Did you say suppository? 56:53.740 --> 56:54.540 Repository, close enough. 56:54.760 --> 56:55.260 Okay, whatever. 56:56.980 --> 56:59.220 He came up with something called wiki, wiki, web, 56:59.680 --> 57:01.280 and it was the first engine of the wiki. 57:01.540 --> 57:04.080 And the interesting part is, which I never knew this, 57:04.120 --> 57:05.900 I found this out when I was doing research on it, 57:05.980 --> 57:09.180 the term wiki, it wasn't coined by Cunningham, 57:09.180 --> 57:13.360 but he's the one who brought it back into the entire concept. 57:13.580 --> 57:16.600 He was at the Honolulu International Airport, 57:16.900 --> 57:19.840 and he had a shuttle bus following wiki, wiki buses, 57:20.060 --> 57:22.420 because wiki, wiki in Hawaiian means quick. 57:23.060 --> 57:26.920 And so rather than calling his new website the quick web, 57:27.460 --> 57:28.880 he called it the wiki, wiki web. 57:28.880 --> 57:31.060 Oh, please, a quick web would have been so much better. 57:31.640 --> 57:33.820 Quick web would have been so much better. 57:34.920 --> 57:36.100 Oh, come on. 57:36.120 --> 57:37.020 Quick web. 57:37.780 --> 57:39.820 You get like, you know, have you seen the new quick? 57:40.300 --> 57:42.260 I mean, just it's like, have you seen the new wiki? 57:42.360 --> 57:43.220 It just sounds so much cooler. 57:43.680 --> 57:44.160 One word. 57:44.340 --> 57:44.760 One word. 57:44.840 --> 57:45.680 Man, you're breaking up. 57:45.780 --> 57:46.380 Are you downloading? 57:46.600 --> 57:48.820 Something's, man, we're getting RFA'd bad today. 57:49.500 --> 57:50.500 Breaking up really bad. 57:51.240 --> 57:53.080 I think someone's using eMule. 57:53.980 --> 57:55.360 Oh, yeah, I guess I could be, too. 57:57.920 --> 57:59.300 Let's see what's going on here. 58:00.380 --> 58:02.300 This conversation brought to you by NuFone. 58:02.680 --> 58:02.920 Yeah. 58:03.520 --> 58:07.080 I bet you, yeah, let's, I'll take, I'll see if I can square that away. 58:07.160 --> 58:10.260 Anyway, you keep going with how cool wiki is when it really isn't. 58:12.080 --> 58:13.000 Hopefully it's not me, 58:13.060 --> 58:14.780 because I'm not sure what's going on at my interconnection. 58:14.980 --> 58:15.260 Okay. 58:17.280 --> 58:17.980 That's what it is. 58:18.020 --> 58:19.040 It's basically, you know, wiki. 58:19.040 --> 58:22.560 And, you know, a lot of people say, you know, what is it good for? 58:22.900 --> 58:26.200 And it was really geared for just sort of knowledge repositories. 58:26.340 --> 58:28.020 And, like, you know, there's a couple of good ones out there 58:28.020 --> 58:29.040 that I'll get into a little later. 58:29.660 --> 58:34.480 What I was first introduced to it as was a small work group at my college. 58:34.620 --> 58:36.840 They used it for collaboration between projects. 58:37.080 --> 58:42.860 It was a student-run group in the College of Computer Science, 58:42.920 --> 58:44.180 and they used to maintain systems. 58:44.700 --> 58:46.340 And just out of curiosity, am I breaking up anymore? 58:46.600 --> 58:47.860 No, everything's all right, it seems like. 58:49.040 --> 58:49.580 It sounds good. 58:50.240 --> 58:51.100 Oh, it spoke too soon. 58:51.160 --> 58:51.400 Go ahead. 58:51.460 --> 58:54.720 And that's where I got introduced to it. 58:54.900 --> 58:57.100 It was a small group, and they used to use it, 58:57.160 --> 58:59.360 and they used to post all their little experimental projects, 58:59.880 --> 59:01.280 much like labs. 59:01.520 --> 59:04.360 But anyway, and that's where they used to keep information. 59:04.500 --> 59:05.700 And I saw it. 59:05.700 --> 59:06.800 I thought it was pretty interesting. 59:07.260 --> 59:08.400 And then I thought nothing of it. 59:08.400 --> 59:13.120 And where I really cut my teeth on it was where I worked, 59:13.220 --> 59:17.180 they were having basically a – they wanted to keep notes on certain things, 59:17.260 --> 59:20.660 and they basically had a bunch of projects that they wanted to collaborate on, 59:20.660 --> 59:24.080 and they just kept it in, you know, separate Word files. 59:24.420 --> 59:27.280 And they used to have the big complaints of, like, you know, 59:27.300 --> 59:31.620 only one person can edit at a time, and there's certain problems with it, 59:31.660 --> 59:32.960 and there's no revision control. 59:33.640 --> 59:36.820 So, you know, wherever this little wiki thing was sitting in the back of my mind, 59:37.160 --> 59:41.500 I said, well, I have this – I know this program that basically does all the stuff you want to do. 59:41.620 --> 59:42.600 Do you want me to try to set it up? 59:43.260 --> 59:44.260 And they said, okay. 59:44.500 --> 59:47.800 So I sat down, and I set it up, and I started playing with it. 59:47.800 --> 59:51.820 And I used something called K-Wiki, or Quickie, as you would call it. 59:52.220 --> 59:57.960 See, that's another terrible thing about wiki is all the stupid puns that come out of it, 59:58.000 --> 01:00:04.080 like wiki-tiki-tave, and twiki, and – oh, jeez. 01:00:05.100 --> 01:00:06.540 Quick Web would have been so much better. 01:00:08.500 --> 01:00:09.120 You noob. 01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:09.620 Yeah. 01:00:09.620 --> 01:00:13.380 You don't know good marketing when it comes up to you and who's on your shoe. 01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:15.580 Quickie, quickie, come on. 01:00:16.340 --> 01:00:17.700 Come on. It's cool. 01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:20.040 All right, fine. I'll pretend it's cool for you. 01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:23.100 Yeah, you better. I'm running the show now. 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:26.440 I killed emule. 01:00:26.640 --> 01:00:31.340 I got introduced to it, and everyone loved it, and they all started using it, 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:34.260 and it basically answered a lot of their problems. 01:00:34.600 --> 01:00:37.860 And once I started seeing, like, you know, how a group of people can really start using it, 01:00:37.860 --> 01:00:40.500 I started saying, well, this is actually pretty good. 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:46.200 And, you know, I looked into it a little more, and I saw a couple of sites that ran it. 01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:48.380 And it is a very interesting concept. 01:00:48.700 --> 01:00:53.940 It does have its drawbacks, and there are some problems with it, but, you know, 01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:55.700 because anyone can really mess up the site. 01:00:55.760 --> 01:00:57.700 But there are some built-in structure controls. 01:00:57.700 --> 01:01:02.200 But it's especially good for small groups working together who want to collaborate. 01:01:02.720 --> 01:01:04.920 And, of course, it also scales very, very well. 01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:13.740 There's also projects out there called Wikipedia, which is basically a group of people trying to get everything documented in the Encyclopedia 01:01:13.740 --> 01:01:15.500 into a completely free source. 01:01:16.740 --> 01:01:17.180 Yeah. 01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:19.460 And it also is very cool. 01:01:19.700 --> 01:01:29.240 The cool thing about that is it includes pop culture references and slang and tech terms and relate references and things like that. 01:01:29.240 --> 01:01:37.540 I actually – I don't want to say this out loud, but I used to go to something called Everything 2, and it was a lot like Wikipedia. 01:01:38.100 --> 01:01:43.200 And, you know, any time I couldn't really find something on, like, you know, the normal searching methods, I used to go over there. 01:01:43.220 --> 01:01:44.720 And I used to have a pretty good hit ratio. 01:01:45.260 --> 01:01:48.600 But really, Wikipedia has really taken that over for me. 01:01:48.680 --> 01:01:53.300 I mean, it's got crazy stuff in there, like everything you could possibly want to know when you were free to ask. 01:01:54.160 --> 01:01:55.300 Yeah, it's a very cool site. 01:01:56.160 --> 01:01:56.420 Indeed. 01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:00.420 So, anyway, you know, it's very interesting. 01:02:00.640 --> 01:02:06.160 And the way it's set up is that basically every page has its own kind of independent node. 01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:07.820 It's kind of like a glob of information. 01:02:08.640 --> 01:02:13.740 And what you can do is you can take each node and link them together and really follow logical thought patterns. 01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:17.700 It's really like the original idea of hypertext. 01:02:18.300 --> 01:02:21.460 Hypertext was designed to just, like, you know, click every link and take you somewhere. 01:02:22.160 --> 01:02:24.000 And, you know, wikis really try to do that. 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:25.700 You can try to take it up one more notch. 01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:29.000 And it's very close to what Tim Berners-Lee tried to go for. 01:02:30.260 --> 01:02:34.560 Once pages are kind of linked together, what you could say is a matrix kind of forms. 01:02:35.460 --> 01:02:44.060 And you can start following, you know, if I go on to some website and I start clicking around and I start going out and, like, you know, 01:02:44.100 --> 01:02:46.120 I run into something on, like, you know, freaking. 01:02:46.460 --> 01:02:48.940 And it's like, you know, freaking is getting free phone calls. 01:02:48.940 --> 01:02:51.780 So I can go in and say, well, you know, let me edit this page. 01:02:51.820 --> 01:02:55.340 And I can just fill out all kinds of crazy information, like, you know, talk about asterisk. 01:02:55.380 --> 01:02:56.900 And I can start beefing up the site. 01:02:57.040 --> 01:03:00.900 Me, as a complete stranger, can contribute to the site and make it better. 01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:05.780 And once that comes in, you start kind of growing and growing and growing. 01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:09.160 And it's just, it really just takes off. 01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:17.940 And it works out very well for, like, you know, as a centralized process for editing pages and working around it. 01:03:17.940 --> 01:03:21.580 All right, so we've established it. 01:03:21.900 --> 01:03:22.860 I'll give it credit. 01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:25.040 I'm kind of half-joking when I'm bashing it. 01:03:25.080 --> 01:03:28.160 I just, the word wiki doesn't exactly roll off my tongue very well. 01:03:28.660 --> 01:03:32.840 But honestly, it's got, yeah, it sounds too cartoony. 01:03:32.840 --> 01:03:35.220 But it does have some pretty cool uses. 01:03:35.680 --> 01:03:38.640 For collaboration, I mean, it really is a pretty cool tool for that. 01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:46.700 But, I don't know, unless it's, it seems to be made for certain types of things, like Wikipedia and what else? 01:03:46.700 --> 01:03:50.560 I mean, there's other stuff like that that it's just made for. 01:03:51.660 --> 01:03:57.640 Well, it's basically, what a wiki is, it's just, it's a knowledge repository. 01:03:58.200 --> 01:04:00.440 That's what it really was originally intended for. 01:04:00.580 --> 01:04:01.700 That's what works out best. 01:04:02.360 --> 01:04:05.060 And that's what a good 95% of them are. 01:04:05.140 --> 01:04:07.100 You see them used in other applications. 01:04:08.120 --> 01:04:14.140 And I look at them as, it's like, you know, trying to kind of fit a round peg, a square peg into a round hole. 01:04:14.140 --> 01:04:20.060 So, I mean, there's a lot of good projects out there, but most of them are kind of knowledge-based. 01:04:20.780 --> 01:04:25.640 Like, there's Wikipedia, of course, you know, wikipedia.org. 01:04:25.820 --> 01:04:28.080 And they have a couple of other sites that they use. 01:04:28.540 --> 01:04:30.480 It's actually run by a nonprofit group. 01:04:30.560 --> 01:04:31.540 I found that out today. 01:04:32.020 --> 01:04:33.040 It's based in Florida. 01:04:33.100 --> 01:04:34.520 And they have a couple of sub-projects. 01:04:34.520 --> 01:04:43.200 And one of the biggest ones is Wiktionary, at wiktionary.org, W-I-K-T-I-O-N-A-R-Y. 01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:44.480 There's a link to it off Wikipedia. 01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:48.880 And it's basically sort of like Wikipedia, except it's secured to be a dictionary. 01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:54.380 And there's another one called Meatball Wiki, which is a wiki about wiki communities. 01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:56.980 And that's at usemod.org. 01:04:57.040 --> 01:04:57.300 Wait a minute. 01:04:57.300 --> 01:04:59.940 Man, it's not a wiki about meatballs? 01:05:01.180 --> 01:05:02.600 No, I thought it was that, too. 01:05:02.680 --> 01:05:04.120 I was looking for a good submarine purpose. 01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:07.640 It couldn't mean submarine sandwich recipe, but oh well. 01:05:08.020 --> 01:05:08.480 Darn it. 01:05:08.520 --> 01:05:13.440 And actually, one of the four fun ones I've encountered is MemoryAlpha.org, which is a 01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:15.260 community wiki by Star Trek Geeks. 01:05:15.260 --> 01:05:21.420 And they basically have tried to make every Star Trek episode and document it and tell 01:05:21.420 --> 01:05:22.920 all the little stupid things about it. 01:05:24.500 --> 01:05:26.640 It's very fun and it's very weird. 01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:29.900 And it's kind of a throwback to my Star Trek days. 01:05:31.500 --> 01:05:40.260 On one hand, that does sound kind of cool, but isn't there just already enough Star Trek? 01:05:41.060 --> 01:05:41.980 I don't know. 01:05:41.980 --> 01:05:42.980 No, actually, I'm... 01:05:42.980 --> 01:05:44.780 Come on, I'm looking forward to... 01:05:44.780 --> 01:05:47.900 I know how many times Captain Kirk slept with a green woman in the original series. 01:05:48.240 --> 01:05:52.380 Is there like a keyword that'll let you search for that and get an exact count or something? 01:05:53.660 --> 01:05:55.700 Actually, there's a lot of functions in there. 01:05:56.640 --> 01:05:58.700 The biggest page on the wiki isn't the main page. 01:05:58.820 --> 01:06:03.880 The main page, you can modify and you can't put like, you know, here's popular topics and 01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:04.140 everything. 01:06:04.640 --> 01:06:09.060 But I feel that the most important page by far is something called Recent Changes. 01:06:09.380 --> 01:06:13.880 And what Recent Changes does is it shows you every change that has been done to the wiki 01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:15.380 for like, you know, a certain time period. 01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:18.640 You can go back all the way to the beginning for this. 01:06:18.720 --> 01:06:20.020 It's just a giant database. 01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:26.460 And it'll show you like what edits have happened, you know, what articles have been added, if 01:06:26.460 --> 01:06:30.040 certain things have been changed, if certain pages have been like, you know, certain administrative 01:06:30.040 --> 01:06:31.060 functions have been done. 01:06:31.060 --> 01:06:35.380 And it's really to get like, you know, the stuff that's hot off the press, you want to 01:06:35.380 --> 01:06:35.760 go there. 01:06:36.680 --> 01:06:41.380 And there's also, you know, for more like, you know, I want to find something about, you 01:06:41.380 --> 01:06:43.520 know, how many times Captain Kirk slept with green women. 01:06:43.800 --> 01:06:48.460 I can go into the search function, which will, you know, obviously search wiki for you. 01:06:48.460 --> 01:06:51.960 So the other interesting page is the categories page. 01:06:52.100 --> 01:06:56.640 What categories are is basically kind of like keywords. 01:06:57.100 --> 01:07:01.700 Like you can go in there and like, you know, you can have like, you know, Captain Kirk, green 01:07:01.700 --> 01:07:06.280 woman, sex, you know, the planet he was on. 01:07:07.080 --> 01:07:11.600 You can add in all kinds of crazy stuff to it and just like, you know, break it down. 01:07:11.720 --> 01:07:15.320 So when you go to this page, you can see like, you know, give me all the pages related to 01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:15.820 Captain Kirk. 01:07:15.820 --> 01:07:18.720 It's kind of like a search, but not very much so. 01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:19.300 Yeah. 01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:23.240 And to stick with this Star Trek thing, which I'm usually not real good at because I'm not 01:07:23.240 --> 01:07:28.140 a big Trekkie, but like season one, for example, was a keyword. 01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:31.460 You could click on it and get a list of only those ones from season one. 01:07:31.620 --> 01:07:32.400 So if you wanted to. 01:07:33.100 --> 01:07:33.260 Yeah. 01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:35.000 That would be a very cool application of that. 01:07:35.060 --> 01:07:35.900 That sounds kind of cool. 01:07:36.860 --> 01:07:37.220 Mm-hmm. 01:07:39.140 --> 01:07:45.800 So if the, if the main page is not, I mean, again, it seems like that's a 01:07:45.820 --> 01:07:49.800 whole, like we mentioned earlier about a little potential chaos if it's not organized 01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:50.620 properly. 01:07:51.160 --> 01:07:53.960 If it didn't have, I mean, the keyword sounds pretty important. 01:07:54.160 --> 01:07:57.080 The categories sound pretty important to keep everything in line. 01:07:57.780 --> 01:08:04.460 For example, I mean, Wikipedia, it's okay to be a little bit chaotic because you're really, 01:08:04.720 --> 01:08:06.300 it's designed to be searched. 01:08:06.720 --> 01:08:09.820 Whatever word or term you're looking for, you're going to find. 01:08:09.820 --> 01:08:15.520 You don't, that doesn't need categories, but some of the other applications of it and 01:08:15.520 --> 01:08:20.040 very good and valid applications of a central clearinghouse of information, like let's stick 01:08:20.040 --> 01:08:20.940 with the Star Trek one. 01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:27.660 It would be very important to categorize each one of these web pages or whatever by, like 01:08:27.660 --> 01:08:31.580 I said, season this or maybe the name of the actors. 01:08:31.580 --> 01:08:37.180 If you put in keywords for all of that or categories for all of that and say, find me all the ones 01:08:37.180 --> 01:08:40.880 episodes that contained, I don't know, Chewbacca. 01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:41.920 Give me a character. 01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:42.880 I don't know Star Trek. 01:08:43.400 --> 01:08:44.160 Wesley Crusher. 01:08:44.460 --> 01:08:48.660 As 1,500 Trekkies, just sort of like, you know, wince in pain because you said that. 01:08:48.740 --> 01:08:49.620 I did that one on purpose. 01:08:49.720 --> 01:08:50.380 I'm not that bad. 01:08:50.440 --> 01:08:52.200 But yeah, I did that just to mess with the Trekkies. 01:08:53.240 --> 01:08:55.380 Yeah, Wesley Crusher, whatever his name is. 01:08:55.400 --> 01:08:58.040 You want to find out every episode he's been in and stuff like that. 01:08:58.040 --> 01:09:01.440 That's it. 01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:02.760 That is what categories are for. 01:09:02.900 --> 01:09:03.740 And they call them categories. 01:09:03.860 --> 01:09:06.260 I like to refer to them as keywords, and I think they work better that way. 01:09:06.400 --> 01:09:07.100 Yeah, I agree. 01:09:07.260 --> 01:09:15.280 And just to like go on, it's, you know, when you're editing pages, like, you know, formatting 01:09:15.280 --> 01:09:17.080 is like, you know, very good. 01:09:17.160 --> 01:09:17.840 You can keep everything. 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.440 It's very much like encyclopedic. 01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:22.680 You know, you have headers. 01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:24.360 You can like, you know, do tables. 01:09:24.360 --> 01:09:28.600 And just like they have their own sort of like, you know, wiki formatting language. 01:09:28.820 --> 01:09:31.120 I'm not even sure what, if it has a term like that. 01:09:31.180 --> 01:09:33.160 But that's what me and Stank have been calling it. 01:09:33.240 --> 01:09:33.500 But anyway. 01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:34.720 Wiki markup language. 01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:37.880 And like, you know, there's certain ways of formatting everything. 01:09:38.040 --> 01:09:43.240 Like, you know, two dashes around a word, I'm sorry, two equal signs around a word means 01:09:43.240 --> 01:09:43.880 header one. 01:09:44.380 --> 01:09:49.100 But like, you know, everything within a wiki eventually gets translated into HTML. 01:09:49.100 --> 01:09:52.740 So when you enter HTML directly into it, it's fine. 01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:54.840 It understands it. 01:09:54.900 --> 01:09:56.900 It blocks out certain things, obviously. 01:09:57.440 --> 01:10:01.640 But it understands it fine and it edits it in and adds it and it looks okay. 01:10:02.020 --> 01:10:09.160 But like, you know, the wiki formatting language is designed to be, you know, work correctly 01:10:09.160 --> 01:10:09.720 into the wiki. 01:10:09.880 --> 01:10:12.240 I mean, you can make it look any way you want. 01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:19.220 But there are certain, I wouldn't call them standards, but certain, you know, ways that 01:10:19.220 --> 01:10:20.180 you should do it. 01:10:21.060 --> 01:10:24.180 And like, you know, everything gets translated into HTML and like, you know. 01:10:25.320 --> 01:10:32.640 Well, you know, it's interesting to know that the formatting for it, in my experience with 01:10:32.640 --> 01:10:38.580 it, is that, well, just clarify, when we say formatting, it's not like formatting the page 01:10:38.580 --> 01:10:43.760 or tables, using tables for formatting and layout on design and stuff like that, that's 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:48.200 still handled by HTML, PHP, CSS, other things. 01:10:48.660 --> 01:10:49.580 The formatting... 01:10:49.580 --> 01:10:53.580 For example, you can't include another, like, you know, content styling sheet beyond the 01:10:53.580 --> 01:10:56.140 one that the wiki is including. 01:10:56.420 --> 01:10:56.780 Right. 01:10:57.320 --> 01:10:57.640 Right. 01:10:57.720 --> 01:11:02.160 It's more for formatting the actual text for visual purposes. 01:11:02.800 --> 01:11:03.720 Like font... 01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:07.600 Well, again, it's a good point to mention that everything has an HTML equivalent. 01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:11.560 So, not so much for layout design, but for the formatting of the text. 01:11:11.660 --> 01:11:16.580 Like, whether it's bold one, or header one, header two, header three, different layers 01:11:16.580 --> 01:11:21.320 of headers, or whether it's italics and bold and things like that. 01:11:21.360 --> 01:11:25.780 Some of the basic things that you find on, you know, the basic uses of HTML. 01:11:26.620 --> 01:11:31.540 But it also goes a step further with the way it interprets, you know, I toss this word around 01:11:31.540 --> 01:11:32.980 a lot with wikis, and that's meta. 01:11:32.980 --> 01:11:39.360 Metadata, and the way it goes above and beyond HTML to really give you a little bit extra. 01:11:40.060 --> 01:11:45.100 Like, for example, the, what do you call it, the table of contents. 01:11:46.100 --> 01:11:46.500 Exactly. 01:11:46.500 --> 01:11:53.820 Now, if you do those headers right, not only will they look like headers and look nice 01:11:53.820 --> 01:11:57.660 formatted on the screen, but the way the wiki works... 01:11:57.660 --> 01:11:59.820 Oh, no, that's a terrible alliteration. 01:12:00.780 --> 01:12:04.500 The way the wiki works, the way the wiki really works... 01:12:04.500 --> 01:12:05.620 Say that ten times fast. 01:12:06.980 --> 01:12:07.340 Is... 01:12:07.340 --> 01:12:09.860 The way the wiki works is the wiki works well. 01:12:09.860 --> 01:12:11.660 Oh, jeez. 01:12:12.220 --> 01:12:13.620 Oh, good lord. 01:12:14.180 --> 01:12:14.860 I'm so... 01:12:14.860 --> 01:12:16.360 I couldn't say that if I... 01:12:16.360 --> 01:12:17.240 Oh, man. 01:12:18.320 --> 01:12:19.500 How much wood could a woodchuck chuck? 01:12:19.860 --> 01:12:22.200 Yeah, if a wiki woodchuck could wiki... 01:12:22.200 --> 01:12:22.740 No, God. 01:12:24.100 --> 01:12:30.340 It's got a lot of cool features for formatting text and for formatting data, which is really 01:12:30.340 --> 01:12:37.060 what its forte is, that it accepts normal HTML, which I think you said, but if you use the 01:12:37.060 --> 01:12:41.140 wiki language, it does a little bit extra by building table of contents on the fly. 01:12:41.760 --> 01:12:47.380 You can set it up to embed tables in it and code in it very easily and have it offset so 01:12:47.380 --> 01:12:50.260 that it's much easier to read, it's easy on the eyes. 01:12:51.040 --> 01:12:56.400 It makes for good, easy reading, whereas with HTML, you really have to start getting into 01:12:56.400 --> 01:13:01.800 a bunch of table manipulation and trickery to sometimes make things look and appear the 01:13:01.800 --> 01:13:04.180 way you want them and in the places that you want them. 01:13:04.180 --> 01:13:10.220 Yes, the wiki formatting makes it easy to do the things that you will probably want 01:13:10.220 --> 01:13:10.480 to do. 01:13:10.560 --> 01:13:14.460 They do a very good job of handling anything that you could possibly want to do in a wiki 01:13:14.460 --> 01:13:16.080 under normal situations. 01:13:16.220 --> 01:13:20.200 Obviously, there's not always exactly what you want to do and you may have to word around 01:13:20.200 --> 01:13:20.560 code. 01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:23.020 You know what I would like to see from a wiki? 01:13:24.140 --> 01:13:25.460 Can I offer a suggestion? 01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:27.560 Can I offer an idea, if I may? 01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:29.200 Sure, why not? 01:13:29.200 --> 01:13:29.900 Can I do that? 01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:31.220 Is it good to do that now? 01:13:32.080 --> 01:13:35.840 I would like to see, you know, this is just, I'm just coming off the top of my head with 01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:36.100 this. 01:13:36.980 --> 01:13:42.720 Wouldn't it be cool to have a wiki, a site that's powered by a wiki that contained like 01:13:42.720 --> 01:13:48.340 a bunch of hacking information, like hacking things, like categorized, like we said to Star 01:13:48.340 --> 01:13:50.100 Trek, categorized by season. 01:13:50.200 --> 01:13:54.260 We could have it where it was categorized by like what magazine it was published in. 01:13:54.260 --> 01:13:58.680 All the articles from 2600, you click on the 2600 keyword and it lists them all. 01:13:59.480 --> 01:14:00.520 That would be really cool. 01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:05.580 Or from a certain authors or certain topics even, just like, you know, hardware hacking 01:14:05.580 --> 01:14:12.680 or freaking cell phones or just any, you know, some type of categorized site. 01:14:13.220 --> 01:14:16.320 That, I think somebody should do something like that. 01:14:16.700 --> 01:14:17.480 And you know what? 01:14:17.540 --> 01:14:20.020 I think a really good name for it would be Doc Droppers. 01:14:20.740 --> 01:14:21.520 Da-da-da-da-da! 01:14:21.780 --> 01:14:22.520 Doc Droppers! 01:14:22.520 --> 01:14:26.160 I guess we probably ought to, you know what? 01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:27.880 Didn't we do something like that? 01:14:28.820 --> 01:14:31.920 Actually, oh yeah, yeah, we've been working on that for a couple months, haven't we? 01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:33.800 For the couple months, I think, yes. 01:14:33.960 --> 01:14:36.600 We have been busting our butts on this for a couple months. 01:14:37.380 --> 01:14:38.460 And this is the project. 01:14:38.520 --> 01:14:38.760 I've forgotten. 01:14:39.100 --> 01:14:40.520 Yeah, this is the project I mentioned. 01:14:40.580 --> 01:14:43.500 We're kind of joking here, but this is the project I mentioned at the top of the show. 01:14:44.240 --> 01:14:48.420 And if you haven't already typed it in, it's DocDroppers.org. 01:14:49.580 --> 01:14:50.420 Doc Droppers! 01:14:50.420 --> 01:14:51.380 Da-da-da-da-da! 01:14:51.380 --> 01:14:52.060 Da-da-da-da-da-da! 01:14:52.420 --> 01:14:54.460 Yeah, if you haven't, go check it out right now. 01:14:54.860 --> 01:14:57.300 This is what a wiki is used for. 01:14:57.340 --> 01:15:00.040 And I'm kind of joking and teasing because I don't like the word wiki. 01:15:00.180 --> 01:15:04.580 But I've got to admit, the wiki was perfect for this project. 01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:08.540 Doc Droppers is your one-stop shop for all your Doc Dropping needs. 01:15:09.240 --> 01:15:10.660 Say that one ten times fast. 01:15:11.260 --> 01:15:12.620 I'm surprised you actually got it out. 01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:13.980 Yeah, that was a tough one. 01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:14.520 I've been practicing. 01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:18.160 It was absolutely a perfect fit for this. 01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:22.800 And Black Ratchet and I, mostly Black Ratchet, have been putting this together. 01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:26.340 And we've put a lot of text files up and counting. 01:15:27.020 --> 01:15:28.100 And I hope you've paid attention. 01:15:28.460 --> 01:15:34.180 Yeah, I hope you've paid attention to what we've been referring to earlier about the collaboration. 01:15:34.180 --> 01:15:41.640 And I think you can probably put it into words better than I can about how – I mean, I think this is already cool. 01:15:42.420 --> 01:15:46.400 But it's not just my articles and your articles and stuff like that. 01:15:46.480 --> 01:15:48.780 I mean, this is big and can get – 01:15:48.780 --> 01:15:49.760 Everyone's articles. 01:15:49.760 --> 01:15:56.640 Yeah, and can get so huge and get so much bigger with some people helping. 01:15:57.560 --> 01:15:57.820 Yes. 01:15:58.020 --> 01:16:01.640 No, this is perfect for what a wiki is. 01:16:02.020 --> 01:16:09.900 Basically, what we try to do with Doc Droppers is like, you know, textiles.org is a fantastic repository. 01:16:10.100 --> 01:16:10.860 I visit there often. 01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:15.840 But we really feel this is a niche – let's try that again. 01:16:15.940 --> 01:16:17.820 A niche – I don't know how to pronounce it. 01:16:18.180 --> 01:16:23.600 Of, you know, what Doc Droppers has to do is, like, you know, we're going to try to put up stuff that's relevant. 01:16:24.040 --> 01:16:27.480 Like, I mean, I'm not that we're saying textiles.org isn't relevant. 01:16:27.680 --> 01:16:29.800 But, like, stuff that you can probably use today. 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:31.720 I mean, there's going to be no text about blue boxing. 01:16:33.580 --> 01:16:36.280 Isn't it – is it textiles.com or textiles.org? 01:16:37.020 --> 01:16:37.940 I thought it was Orge. 01:16:38.080 --> 01:16:38.280 Oh, okay. 01:16:38.280 --> 01:16:39.680 I think he actually owns all three. 01:16:39.680 --> 01:16:40.000 Hold on. 01:16:40.060 --> 01:16:40.540 Let me go double check. 01:16:41.260 --> 01:16:41.800 Do, do, do. 01:16:42.440 --> 01:16:43.720 Go sing the Doc Droppers. 01:16:43.780 --> 01:16:44.000 See them again. 01:16:44.580 --> 01:16:45.420 Doc Droppers. 01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:46.500 Do, do, do, do. 01:16:47.460 --> 01:16:49.640 The one-stop shop for all your Doc Dropping needs. 01:16:49.700 --> 01:16:51.360 And, actually, we kind of made this name up. 01:16:51.440 --> 01:16:54.940 I'll give a little history of the name because I've said this before on the show. 01:16:54.980 --> 01:17:01.140 We have a few sites registered that we use for just test beds, just for funny sites, just for the heck of it, 01:17:01.160 --> 01:17:03.880 to throw software up and hack at it and play with it. 01:17:04.100 --> 01:17:06.540 And one of those sites was DocDroppers.org. 01:17:07.420 --> 01:17:09.540 And we just thought it was a funny name. 01:17:09.540 --> 01:17:13.300 And when we came up with this idea, it would seem like a perfect name. 01:17:13.360 --> 01:17:16.900 We're dropping docs, a lot of documents, a lot of articles and stuff like that. 01:17:17.080 --> 01:17:24.640 It's not a site, even though we said it as a joke, it's not a site for you to drop docs on people and drop their real information and stuff like that. 01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:26.980 I can take yours down, shouldn't I? 01:17:27.300 --> 01:17:28.740 Oh, yeah, that's not down yet. 01:17:28.780 --> 01:17:30.200 We can't announce it if it's still there. 01:17:30.340 --> 01:17:31.360 Oh, man. 01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:32.420 Don't worry. 01:17:32.540 --> 01:17:35.000 I, as a normal user, will go in and edit that page. 01:17:35.220 --> 01:17:36.440 Yeah, sure you will. 01:17:37.500 --> 01:17:39.060 Not the way we have it set up. 01:17:39.060 --> 01:17:41.500 And actually, maybe you can go into that a little bit. 01:17:42.300 --> 01:17:42.500 Yeah. 01:17:42.820 --> 01:17:49.620 Well, while the site technically is a wiki and we're using wiki software, it's not really a wiki in the strictest sense. 01:17:50.880 --> 01:17:56.740 Anyone, anybody who's anybody can, you know, create ad articles, you know, 01:17:56.740 --> 01:18:02.040 but editing existing webpages is only going to be limited to the administrative staff. 01:18:02.820 --> 01:18:09.380 We feel that while we're really kind of limiting the wiki experience, we're really just going to save headaches for ourselves. 01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:12.620 You know, there are people out there that will go and mess up all these text files. 01:18:13.260 --> 01:18:17.600 And quite frankly, I have too much to do rather than babysit the whole thing, heck, day in and day out. 01:18:17.980 --> 01:18:22.040 And I don't want to have a couple of bad apples ruin it for everyone. 01:18:22.300 --> 01:18:26.640 And there are several bad apples out there who will make it their goal to do that. 01:18:27.060 --> 01:18:27.460 So... 01:18:27.460 --> 01:18:28.740 Yeah, I'm sure there will be. 01:18:29.000 --> 01:18:29.200 Yeah. 01:18:29.360 --> 01:18:32.520 So it is locked down so that they can't cause chaos. 01:18:32.660 --> 01:18:36.100 You know, that is one of the weaknesses of the wiki is being collaborative in nature. 01:18:36.280 --> 01:18:37.720 It has the potential for abuse. 01:18:38.600 --> 01:18:38.980 Yeah. 01:18:39.060 --> 01:18:41.360 And there are built-in safeguards against that. 01:18:41.620 --> 01:18:46.000 But, and, you know, there are ways of, like, you know, saying, oh, delete this revision. 01:18:46.580 --> 01:18:49.340 You know, you can bring it back to any point in the history if you're the new donor. 01:18:49.540 --> 01:18:50.500 It's no problem. 01:18:50.500 --> 01:18:53.500 But, like, quite frankly, we don't want to deal with that. 01:18:53.500 --> 01:18:57.000 I mean, we're sorry, but, you know, blame who you need to blame. 01:18:57.820 --> 01:19:00.100 And, but, like, you know, anybody can still add a note. 01:19:00.280 --> 01:19:00.600 Anybody. 01:19:01.080 --> 01:19:06.420 You know, if you have a nifty article you want to submit, you know, just sign up for an account and add away. 01:19:06.940 --> 01:19:14.980 And while technically it's not necessary to add an account and sign up for it and log into it, if you don't log in, your IP address will be displayed on the changelog. 01:19:15.480 --> 01:19:16.880 And nothing personal. 01:19:17.060 --> 01:19:19.960 I'm probably, you really don't want to be at the B public information. 01:19:20.500 --> 01:19:24.160 I know that I've had to delete a couple into it because I was stupid and I didn't log in. 01:19:24.160 --> 01:19:31.400 But, you know, if you're, feel free, you know, use a, you know, use your proxy in Russia or whatever. 01:19:31.520 --> 01:19:31.800 Right. 01:19:31.940 --> 01:19:34.260 Go right ahead, you know, and we'll just keep it up there. 01:19:34.540 --> 01:19:36.780 But, you know, if something happens, just drop us a line. 01:19:36.820 --> 01:19:37.160 No problem. 01:19:37.580 --> 01:19:37.740 Yeah. 01:19:39.040 --> 01:19:47.380 And you can also, if you don't feel comfortable with making it all wiki-ized and everything, you know, we have a, we have a web, we have an email address, submissions at dropdroppers.org. 01:19:47.700 --> 01:19:48.840 Feel free to submit to it. 01:19:48.900 --> 01:19:50.940 I will endeavor to check it as much as possible. 01:19:50.940 --> 01:19:53.280 And I will gladly wiki-ize anything. 01:19:53.400 --> 01:19:57.580 Lord knows I've done it in the past couple of months way too many times. 01:19:58.020 --> 01:19:59.000 You're telling me. 01:20:00.180 --> 01:20:01.880 I'm all wikied out, quite frankly. 01:20:02.800 --> 01:20:03.560 Oh, yes. 01:20:03.700 --> 01:20:06.180 I'm looking forward to a nice, you know, slip into maintenance. 01:20:06.360 --> 01:20:11.060 Yeah, give us, if you're going to email them to us, give us a little bit of extra time to catch up on it. 01:20:11.100 --> 01:20:17.620 I mean, I don't know how many are going to come in and it's going to have to be when we get time to get around to putting it up for you if you're going to take that route. 01:20:17.780 --> 01:20:18.820 So don't rush us. 01:20:18.820 --> 01:20:24.020 You're going to have to, it may take days, weeks, maybe even months, frankly, depending on what else we've got going on. 01:20:24.160 --> 01:20:31.240 Your best bet is to put it up and try to get it on there yourself and then let us email us and tell us that it's available or that it's there and it's done. 01:20:31.240 --> 01:20:38.940 And then we will go in behind it and do the rest of the things to add it to circulation, I guess, for lack of a better phrase. 01:20:39.940 --> 01:20:41.200 Link it up to our sites. 01:20:41.540 --> 01:20:43.000 Link it up to our static pages. 01:20:44.080 --> 01:20:44.380 Right. 01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:45.180 I don't know. 01:20:45.320 --> 01:20:45.540 Whatever. 01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:46.060 That's good. 01:20:46.520 --> 01:20:57.240 But while you can't edit pages, what we have done is we've opened up pages linked to – every page has its own separate – it has a whole additional page. 01:20:57.240 --> 01:21:00.700 That basically anyone can talk on, it's called a talk page. 01:21:00.780 --> 01:21:03.580 It's one of the tabs up on the top and you can put whatever you want. 01:21:03.680 --> 01:21:07.440 You can put like, you know, within reason, we will be monitoring this. 01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:11.620 We will be looking at it and, you know, if there's stupid stuff on there. 01:21:11.720 --> 01:21:15.340 But if you have something that you feel constructive, feel free to add to it. 01:21:15.460 --> 01:21:16.180 No problem. 01:21:16.360 --> 01:21:18.120 We love people getting the feedback. 01:21:18.320 --> 01:21:20.220 We think it's going to be one of the big things about this site. 01:21:20.220 --> 01:21:23.540 Yeah, and if I may, we kind of got to push it along here. 01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:32.460 I want to just get a couple things out quickly as well is for that talk, that includes something as simple as typos, suggestions, corrections, 01:21:32.680 --> 01:21:37.620 especially if maybe a particular number in an article is dead or has changed or something like that. 01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:41.680 Post that in the discussion and the talk part of it. 01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:45.720 But I also want to make sure that we get out this part about copyright. 01:21:47.320 --> 01:21:53.760 Everything on the site is publicly available, open source, things that have been posted on the Internet, 01:21:53.980 --> 01:21:56.940 people that have given permission for these articles to be made available. 01:21:58.160 --> 01:22:01.620 And this is where, personally, I'm posting all of my articles from now on. 01:22:01.680 --> 01:22:03.660 I'm not going to put them on stankdog.com. 01:22:03.740 --> 01:22:05.520 I'm going to put them over here and link to them. 01:22:05.820 --> 01:22:09.100 This is going to be a central document depository. 01:22:09.880 --> 01:22:11.180 You almost said depository. 01:22:11.180 --> 01:22:17.340 I don't know what I almost said, but all of it is stuff that is freely available. 01:22:17.580 --> 01:22:20.980 Don't send us and don't post copywritten stuff. 01:22:21.220 --> 01:22:22.560 It won't make it to the page. 01:22:22.620 --> 01:22:23.900 You can create a note if you want. 01:22:24.040 --> 01:22:27.240 We'll find it within a day or two or hours or whatever, and it'll be gone. 01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:35.280 So don't put up copywritten stuff unless you have expressed written permission that you can convince us is legitimate and real. 01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:38.760 And no manuals or PDF files. 01:22:38.760 --> 01:22:41.720 No scans of PDF files or anything like that. 01:22:42.660 --> 01:22:43.920 It's got to be text-based. 01:22:44.260 --> 01:22:45.320 Graphics is fine. 01:22:45.480 --> 01:22:46.360 It'll support graphics. 01:22:46.520 --> 01:22:52.800 You can embed JPEGs and things like that in there if you want to balance out the article if that's necessary. 01:22:53.220 --> 01:22:59.460 I did quite a few articles where I embedded all of my graphics in there, and it came out pretty nice, I think, formatting-wise. 01:23:00.420 --> 01:23:01.380 Yes, they came out very pretty. 01:23:01.960 --> 01:23:05.300 And again, just to reemphasize that this is something that's ongoing. 01:23:05.520 --> 01:23:14.020 We have now got it up and on all the maintenance to get this prepared and ready and locked down so that it hopefully won't be destroyed and abused. 01:23:14.020 --> 01:23:23.740 But for this to grow and to take off, we want you all, if your article's not already there, we just try to grab as much as we could find quickly and get them out there so we could break the categories up. 01:23:24.400 --> 01:23:24.980 But we missed a lot. 01:23:24.980 --> 01:23:26.940 Quickly being a relative term. 01:23:26.940 --> 01:23:32.320 Yeah, we really missed a lot, and none of it was intentional or anything like that. 01:23:32.660 --> 01:23:39.340 What we want is for you all, the listeners and the users of the site, to go out there and post your stuff out there. 01:23:39.420 --> 01:23:40.300 Get this to grow. 01:23:40.420 --> 01:23:47.540 Put everything out there that you want to put out there, and we will do our best to get everything up as quickly and as nice-looking as possible. 01:23:48.380 --> 01:23:51.000 And I think I'm going to set out a goal here. 01:23:51.100 --> 01:23:52.460 Whether or not we can do it, I don't know. 01:23:52.460 --> 01:23:57.060 So I think it would be a nice goal to get at least 500 pages up there. 01:23:57.140 --> 01:23:58.580 Right now we're almost halfway there. 01:23:58.660 --> 01:23:59.460 We've got about 212. 01:23:59.740 --> 01:24:05.440 I think everyone listening right now should endeavor to get DocDroppers up to at least 500 pages. 01:24:05.780 --> 01:24:07.820 Double our site in a month. 01:24:08.320 --> 01:24:09.120 We have plenty of time. 01:24:09.240 --> 01:24:10.580 This is the beginning of the month, plenty of time. 01:24:11.100 --> 01:24:19.420 Yeah, I think we have thousands of listeners, and if each person puts one or two up there, I think that should be a reasonable goal. 01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:21.080 I think that should be a reasonable goal. 01:24:21.080 --> 01:24:22.920 And I don't want to stop at 500 by any means. 01:24:23.040 --> 01:24:24.860 I think this thing could hit the thousands. 01:24:25.360 --> 01:24:28.540 And the categories are not only hacking and not only freaking. 01:24:29.200 --> 01:24:31.280 We have anything that's even remotely related. 01:24:31.400 --> 01:24:33.100 There's a conspiracy theory section. 01:24:33.220 --> 01:24:38.740 There's an urban exploration, social engineering, anything that's even remotely related to these topics. 01:24:38.860 --> 01:24:39.520 No politics. 01:24:39.900 --> 01:24:42.020 You know that's kind of an ongoing rule we have here. 01:24:43.980 --> 01:24:44.380 Privacy. 01:24:44.480 --> 01:24:45.080 There's a privacy section. 01:24:45.860 --> 01:24:47.180 There's just take a look. 01:24:47.320 --> 01:24:48.020 That's the best thing. 01:24:48.020 --> 01:24:51.240 And see, get a feel for what it's like and contribute. 01:24:51.800 --> 01:24:52.980 I mean, that's the bottom line. 01:24:53.340 --> 01:24:57.700 And on that note, I think we're going to have to switch out here to our shouts. 01:24:57.860 --> 01:24:59.120 Start closing the show up. 01:24:59.760 --> 01:25:01.640 And why don't you go ahead and start off the shouts. 01:25:01.640 --> 01:25:14.060 Well, I'm going to say shouts out to Strom Carlson and Mark Bourdain and Phonetrips.com because they finally put a phone recording up from New England, which really just made my day. 01:25:14.160 --> 01:25:18.500 Put it up yesterday and I was just absolutely shocked and awed listening to it. 01:25:19.180 --> 01:25:19.880 Shock and awed. 01:25:19.880 --> 01:25:20.880 So, that's about it. 01:25:21.880 --> 01:25:22.260 All right. 01:25:22.400 --> 01:25:25.100 And my shouts this week, shout out to Voodoo Hal. 01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:26.580 Voodoo Hal's a great guy. 01:25:27.100 --> 01:25:32.000 And to Doug, you know, speaking of good guys, Doug's really, he's just a pretty good guy in general. 01:25:32.280 --> 01:25:33.820 And Doug, I don't shout out enough. 01:25:33.940 --> 01:25:34.740 So, shouts to Doug. 01:25:34.740 --> 01:25:48.580 And a little surprise, a little sneaky shout out here to the stars, if you will, to the stars of the upcoming Hack TV special edition called Pwned. 01:25:49.220 --> 01:25:50.300 So, shouts out to you. 01:25:50.380 --> 01:25:51.180 You know who you are. 01:25:51.880 --> 01:25:54.340 And you'll be hearing more about that very soon. 01:25:54.620 --> 01:25:57.200 Probably the next thing you hear from DDP to be released. 01:25:57.860 --> 01:26:01.120 Email us, of course, radio at binrev.com. 01:26:01.120 --> 01:26:05.940 And our closing music tonight comes from one of my favorites, MC Frontalot. 01:26:06.080 --> 01:26:08.660 It's a new song out from him called Start Over. 01:26:09.420 --> 01:26:12.000 And Black Ratchet, thank you very much for being on the show. 01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:15.860 And I'm glad you got some words in this time. 01:26:15.940 --> 01:26:17.480 I didn't stomp all over you, I don't think. 01:26:17.500 --> 01:26:18.280 I tried not to. 01:26:18.620 --> 01:26:19.920 Like last week, where I pretty much... 01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:20.380 I rambled under 20 minutes. 01:26:20.440 --> 01:26:20.880 Who are you kidding? 01:26:21.020 --> 01:26:23.360 Yeah, I think this is a good show. 01:26:23.460 --> 01:26:25.900 We're right at an hour and a half, which is way over our limit. 01:26:26.020 --> 01:26:26.680 But you know what? 01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:28.040 It was a good show. 01:26:28.040 --> 01:26:31.640 And we're going to end it and tell everybody that we will see them next week. 01:26:32.020 --> 01:26:33.680 Same Doc Dropping time. 01:26:34.420 --> 01:26:35.800 Same Doc Dropping channel. 01:26:58.040 --> 01:27:01.260 To sincerely deliver to old folks sucker, also bigger. 01:27:01.440 --> 01:27:06.120 Cheese and crackers, salt and coffee, medicine to help the heart beat softly, awfully kind 01:27:06.120 --> 01:27:06.680 in a mission. 01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:10.020 Red was, yes, in a headlong collision with the forces of trouble. 01:27:10.200 --> 01:27:11.520 Long in the tooth plus double. 01:27:11.720 --> 01:27:13.920 And this goes double for all little girls. 01:27:14.020 --> 01:27:15.160 Know who bulls are. 01:27:15.240 --> 01:27:18.740 Don't be telling them where you're going, how far, in what direction it is. 01:27:18.840 --> 01:27:21.560 Especially if it's the unguarded cottage where Grandma lives. 01:27:21.680 --> 01:27:24.040 This is just common sense with which little Red dispensed. 01:27:24.780 --> 01:27:26.580 Hence, she proceeded on her way. 01:27:26.580 --> 01:27:28.580 I know the words to Grandma's place. 01:27:28.640 --> 01:27:30.380 Little Red riding hood rolled up. 01:27:30.540 --> 01:27:32.380 Took one look and was like, what the hum? 01:27:32.520 --> 01:27:33.260 What the heck? 01:27:33.460 --> 01:27:34.740 Grandma got a hairy neck. 01:27:34.980 --> 01:27:36.360 Teeth enough to get wrecked. 01:27:36.420 --> 01:27:38.120 Next up, wood axe swinging. 01:27:38.340 --> 01:27:39.160 That's how it happened. 01:27:39.320 --> 01:27:40.120 That's all I'm singing. 01:27:40.320 --> 01:27:41.140 That's the story. 01:27:41.180 --> 01:27:42.080 That ain't how it happened. 01:27:42.220 --> 01:27:43.080 That's the story. 01:27:43.100 --> 01:27:44.060 That ain't how it happened. 01:27:44.180 --> 01:27:45.040 That's the story. 01:27:45.100 --> 01:27:45.940 That ain't how it happened. 01:27:45.940 --> 01:27:48.000 Well, I won't start over if you don't stop yapping. 01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:48.400 Shh. 01:27:52.400 --> 01:27:52.760 Shh. 01:27:55.340 --> 01:27:57.300 Now, once got it hard on this earth. 01:27:57.380 --> 01:27:59.500 Ever the subject of defamation and murder. 01:27:59.720 --> 01:28:00.500 First in line. 01:28:00.580 --> 01:28:01.540 To be out there lurking. 01:28:01.680 --> 01:28:03.520 Eyeing on genus and smirking. 01:28:03.580 --> 01:28:04.760 Working on a master plan. 01:28:04.980 --> 01:28:06.680 Trying to get fed about the best he can. 01:28:06.920 --> 01:28:08.700 Wondering if Grandma got mushroom meat. 01:28:08.900 --> 01:28:11.200 And every not to be indiscreet. 01:28:11.200 --> 01:28:13.060 How many of them ask does she go through a month? 01:28:13.140 --> 01:28:15.000 And how does she react when she misses lunch? 01:28:15.040 --> 01:28:16.840 And what direction was she living in again? 01:28:16.940 --> 01:28:18.820 Well, you better hurry up and go and visit her then. 01:28:18.940 --> 01:28:20.940 But wolves are speedier than little girls. 01:28:21.060 --> 01:28:23.860 Barely pausing to devour jackrabbits and squirrels. 01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:24.900 The wolf arrived. 01:28:25.020 --> 01:28:26.800 All the rest, despicable lies. 01:28:26.900 --> 01:28:28.620 All that talk of assumed identity. 01:28:28.820 --> 01:28:29.260 Let it be. 01:28:29.380 --> 01:28:31.380 This wolf was indelibly wolf-like. 01:28:31.800 --> 01:28:32.480 Forthright, too. 01:28:32.700 --> 01:28:34.440 He said, Grandma, here's what I'll do. 01:28:34.600 --> 01:28:36.540 Swallow your hole, your kinfolk crafter. 01:28:36.620 --> 01:28:38.460 Then I'll keep living so you don't have to. 01:28:38.580 --> 01:28:39.700 Sorry, starving wolf. 01:28:39.760 --> 01:28:40.340 No choice. 01:28:40.340 --> 01:28:42.280 So get in the gullet, just follow my boy. 01:28:42.440 --> 01:28:43.300 That's the story. 01:28:43.320 --> 01:28:44.240 That ain't how it happened. 01:28:44.340 --> 01:28:45.220 That's the story. 01:28:45.260 --> 01:28:46.180 That ain't how it happened. 01:28:46.320 --> 01:28:47.180 That's the story. 01:28:47.240 --> 01:28:48.000 That ain't how it happened. 01:28:48.020 --> 01:28:50.180 Well, I won't start over if you don't stop yapping. 01:28:57.180 --> 01:28:59.660 Alright, Grandma was hanging alone. 01:28:59.700 --> 01:29:01.680 Ultimate independentism for the glauco. 01:29:01.780 --> 01:29:03.220 She paid rent in the forest. 01:29:03.320 --> 01:29:04.060 It was inexpensive. 01:29:04.320 --> 01:29:08.220 Grandma's house was in the intensively wolf-ripe section of town. 01:29:08.300 --> 01:29:08.860 She didn't mind. 01:29:08.860 --> 01:29:10.820 She liked a wild sound at the door. 01:29:10.900 --> 01:29:11.400 An intruder. 01:29:11.600 --> 01:29:12.480 Is that you, Red? 01:29:12.540 --> 01:29:14.140 You brought food for me to eat. 01:29:14.400 --> 01:29:15.320 Nope, the opposite. 01:29:15.480 --> 01:29:16.280 No hard candy. 01:29:16.420 --> 01:29:17.280 No soft chocolate. 01:29:17.440 --> 01:29:19.120 Just a wolf belly for you to inhabit. 01:29:19.340 --> 01:29:21.480 And I'ma need your nightshirt for the next gambit. 01:29:22.140 --> 01:29:23.960 Clandestinely reclining in bed. 01:29:24.080 --> 01:29:25.380 The wolf awaits for Red. 01:29:25.620 --> 01:29:27.020 Expecting their usual banter. 01:29:27.140 --> 01:29:27.880 How's school? 01:29:28.080 --> 01:29:28.880 Fine, Grandma. 01:29:29.060 --> 01:29:29.840 Here's food. 01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:30.720 Thanks, dear. 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:32.800 Instead, it's all what's up with the ears. 01:29:32.940 --> 01:29:34.640 Eyes, nose, throat, teeth. 01:29:34.820 --> 01:29:35.880 Little red rotten hood. 01:29:35.880 --> 01:29:37.120 Why you giving me grief? 01:29:37.320 --> 01:29:39.000 Body changes the years advance. 01:29:39.180 --> 01:29:41.460 Soft features grow unkind to the glance. 01:29:41.520 --> 01:29:42.380 And hairs sprout. 01:29:42.580 --> 01:29:44.340 All of it, the better for you getting in my mouth. 01:29:44.520 --> 01:29:46.340 Wow, it's dark in here, says Grandma. 01:29:46.520 --> 01:29:48.660 Here come the wood axe swinging like, yeah, y'all. 01:29:48.740 --> 01:29:50.220 Oh, woman, come on back out. 01:29:50.300 --> 01:29:52.040 Lock up your door when you're lying around. 01:29:52.220 --> 01:29:53.200 That's the story. 01:29:53.240 --> 01:29:54.180 That ain't how it happens. 01:29:54.300 --> 01:29:55.120 That's the story. 01:29:55.160 --> 01:29:56.100 That ain't how it happens. 01:29:56.260 --> 01:29:57.100 That's the story. 01:29:57.160 --> 01:29:58.040 That ain't how it happens. 01:29:58.180 --> 01:29:59.020 That's the story. 01:29:59.080 --> 01:29:59.940 That ain't how it happens. 01:30:00.080 --> 01:30:00.980 That's the story. 01:30:01.040 --> 01:30:01.980 That ain't how it happens. 01:30:02.040 --> 01:30:02.920 That's the story. 01:30:02.960 --> 01:30:03.840 That ain't how it happens. 01:30:04.020 --> 01:30:04.860 That's the story. 01:30:04.920 --> 01:30:05.820 That ain't how it happens. 01:30:05.920 --> 01:30:06.620 That's all I got. 01:30:06.660 --> 01:30:07.740 So you come and snappy. 01:30:07.740 --> 01:30:37.720 Thank you.