WEBVTT

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This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.

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I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs

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of you in a fag pose, in your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the

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net in my six foe, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable,

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on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and

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I'm a hero, in a flash, I'll school you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me

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do my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, and a digital hug, you just caught

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the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's

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all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling

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your bones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ, leave you flat on your

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back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crickles, serial phones, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIPs,

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SIS, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackles.

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Hey there everybody, this is Stank Dog, and you are listening to Binary Revolution Radio

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episode 96, almost to episode 100, 96, four more to go, and today is May 17th, 2005, another

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Tuesday, another episode of Binary Revolution Radio.

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However, this week we have a treat, we have a new first time co-host on the show, joining

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us, the Roman poet himself, Virgil, is co-hosting the show with me.

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Virgil, welcome to the show.

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Hey, thanks a lot.

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So, let's, we do have quite a bit of stuff to talk about tonight.

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We are going to talk about Google Mining, something that both Virgil and I find very interesting

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and has a lot of potential for discovering and finding data, and I know a lot of people

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we've been getting turned on to this project lately in the forums, but we're going to talk

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into a little bit more, go into a little bit more detail, I should say, on the show tonight

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of exactly what it means, because it is kind of a vague sounding topic, Google Mining.

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So, we're going to make that our main topic later, but first, let's take care of a little

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housekeeping.

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I only have one thing to mention at the top of the show here, and that is to just thank

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everybody really for participating in Freak Factor.

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We had our third episode of Freak Factor, which is our new reality, freaking, and hacking

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radio show, the first and only of its kind that I'm aware of.

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Very, very challenging project that we have taken on, and Not Theory has done wonderful,

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wonderful things with.

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Very successful so far, and there will be some changes coming up to that.

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But, this is really a cool show, because not only is it the reality of just people dialing

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in and participating in the conference call, but also, what I like about it is that we're

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making everyone part of the process.

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We could have waited and gotten every single bug ironed out and got it working perfectly

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and made up a format.

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We decided not to do that.

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We decided, as part of the reality of the show, to deal with the bugs as it went along,

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and deal with the adaptation and the growth and change of the program and of the show

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as it goes along, and dealing with the problems, and involving everybody in on that process.

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So, that's one of the things that I've liked about it.

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However, we are evolving every single episode, and there will be some more changes as the future

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draws near.

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So, I just wanted to let people know that.

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I guess we'll give out some more details when we get closer on our website,

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FreakFactor.net.

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That's P-H-R-E-A-K-P-H-A-C-T-O-R dot net.

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But, basically, we're going to try to cut down on 20 people all trying to talk over each other

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and try to cut it down to just a few people speaking.

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And, we have several ways that we're talking about doing it.

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So, once again, you, the listener and the participants, will be in on that process as well.

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So, look forward to that next week for FreakFactor.

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And, Virgil, unless you had some housekeeping, website maintenance, project announcements,

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anything like that.

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Let me see.

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No, actually, I'm pretty good.

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Most of the stuff we'll probably get to.

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Okay.

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Well, then, let's take care of some e-mail.

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All right.

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We had quite a bit of e-mail from last week's show.

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So, mostly from, Black Ratchet and I are two crotchety old farts.

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And, we sat there reminiscing, going off on these weird tangents,

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of some old television references and movie references and things that we weren't sure

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if a lot of the listeners would get.

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And, I told Black Ratchet that a lot of people would get these references.

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They're not as obscure.

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A lot of people knew that Snidely Whiplash was, in fact, from Dudley Do-Right,

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the old Rocky and Bullwinkle show and things like that.

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So, I knew that.

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Did you really?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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See, I mean, they're not as obscure as, I guess, we, I thought that one was,

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might be obscure, but Black Ratchet thought that Ghostbusters,

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he said a line from Ghostbusters.

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And, I'm like, everybody knows Ghostbusters.

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It's not that old.

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So, we did get a lot of e-mail from that.

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So, I'm not going to go into reading a bunch of those.

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But, we do appreciate people confirming that for us.

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As far as our actual, real e-mails this week, I guess,

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all right, I'm going to start off with an e-mail from Amy.

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Amy writes in,

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Greetings, Stank Dog.

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I have a question for you.

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Since you changed to VoIP,

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I was wondering if you might suggest some of the better companies.

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I am so sick of Quest, which is out there in the Midwest,

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or out there in the West, I should say,

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and the asinine fees, they add on to the bill.

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I listened to the show where you changed,

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and I think I'm going to change also.

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They screwed up my bill,

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and after two calls to the so-called customer service,

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it is still not fixed.

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I am tired of the imbeciles.

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Oh, that's a good word.

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Imbeciles.

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Oh, that's a good word.

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I've got to start working that into my vocabulary more often.

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Definitely.

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Yeah, I'm tired of the imbeciles they employ to, quote,

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ensure my satisfaction.

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Sorry, I am ranting.

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If you could share your opinions, it would be greatly appreciated.

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Thanks, and keep up the great work.

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All right, well, thank you, Amy, for imbecile.

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I'm going to work that in.

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I'm going to start putting that in.

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Yeah, actually, it's been quite a while now that I switched over to VoIP,

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and before that, people were probably really tired of my rants,

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and Virgil, maybe you can back me up on this one,

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of how much I hate Bell South.

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You're in Bell South territory as well.

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Yes.

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So I'm sure you feel my pain.

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I can definitely sympathize.

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Yeah.

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So as soon as I had the opportunity to get off of Bell South,

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I jumped, and I switched to cable modem,

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which was finally made available in my area,

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and went to VoIP and haven't looked back.

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So I've been, all in all, I'm happy.

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However, however, I'm never completely happy.

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The better companies, I've only tried a couple myself,

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and I've heard a lot of things from other people.

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Bottom line is, anybody leaving one of the Big Bells,

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again, Bell South, Quest, any of the larger companies,

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the traditional phone companies,

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the baby Bells that became Big Bells again,

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and we won't go into that whole thing,

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all of this monopolistic tactics that they have of,

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like, for example, Virgil, we don't have a choice.

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If you want phone service, it's Bell South.

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Yeah.

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And you're going to pay what they charge you.

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Basically.

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Period.

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That's it.

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And Bell South down here,

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they do offer a VoIP solution,

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but it costs about the same price as their regular phone service.

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They're not competing with these other VoIP providers.

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So, anyway, any chance to get off of the phone companies,

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I'm completely, I'm all for it.

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So, as far as where I switched to,

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and my recommendation,

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I went with Voice Pulse.

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And I think I've mentioned that on the show before,

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and we're using it right now.

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So, please, Virgil, by all means,

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tell me if it breaks up or anything bad.

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And some days it's better than others.

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I don't really think that I could honestly recommend them.

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I'm not too happy with them,

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because they're not reliable.

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Some days it will be perfectly fine,

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no problems whatsoever.

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The sound quality is good.

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I don't miss calls.

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Other days, I pick up the phone and I won't get a dial tone.

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So, it's just too intermittent.

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I can't count on them regularly giving me the same service.

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So, I mean, it is okay.

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However, the only reason I went with Voice Pulse

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is because Voice Pulse will cooperate a little bit better with Asterisk,

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the PBX software.

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And at one time, that was one of my projects I wanted to work on.

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And quite frankly, long story short,

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I have too many things going on.

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I had to accept the fact

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that I'm not going to have time to put together my own Asterisk box.

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And for all the great things that Not Theory and Natus and Nick and Black Ratchet

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and those guys have done with theirs,

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I don't need another one.

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We've got plenty going on.

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So, I accepted and resigned to the fact

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that I'm not going to have this box.

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So, now what I'm going to do is probably be switching soon.

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So, it is kind of timely that you ask this question.

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If you are looking to tie something in with Asterisk,

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then yes, I would still say Voice Pulse is not bad.

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It's pretty decent for the money that you pay.

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I won't compare features to all of them

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because quite frankly, they're all similar.

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You're always going to get free long distance,

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unlimited long distance for like $25 a month,

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somewhere thereabouts.

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You're going to get the same services,

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call forwarding, voicemail, call hunting,

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you know, all that kind of stuff.

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And that's not really the point.

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The biggest thing is, A, the price.

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They're all close together.

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B, the reliability.

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And I think when it comes to reliability,

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if you're not going to do it with an asterisk box,

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I think the short answer, the way to go,

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is to go with Vonage.

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Vonage is the largest of the companies,

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which doesn't necessarily mean anything,

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but they are large and they do have people

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for customer service.

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They've done a good job.

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I got my father using Vonage

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and I did have to call and use their tech support.

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They were very helpful, I have to admit.

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Maybe I just got one good representative,

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but I had good luck with their support.

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We had a hardware problem

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that was basically a bad port on the router

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that they sent us.

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I would have sent it back,

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but since it's my father

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and he doesn't need the rest of the other port,

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I just switched it, so it was easy enough.

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But I would recommend Vonage.

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Now, I also, just to get another point of view,

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I asked Lucky225 and Doug both,

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who are very, very well versed on this,

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and they both agreed that Vonage

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is definitely the way to go for reliability.

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For anybody who's not going to do anything hardcore with it,

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you just want to replace your phone

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and save some money on your bill

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and not be a slave to the big quests

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and bell sauce of the world,

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then you want to go with Vonage.

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There are other options

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if you want to tie it into AskRisk

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or do some other things,

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but Vonage and VoicePulse

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are still seen to be...

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And whatever you do, avoid Packet8.

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I was told to pass that message on.

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Doug says,

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everybody hates Packet8,

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so I guess we definitely say stay away from them.

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Something I will say,

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it's not really that related,

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but I was recently looking at domains lately,

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and I recently noticed

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that Quest actually owns Q.com,

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which actually is kind of interesting

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because technically,

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like the single-letter domain names,

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you're not allowed to have them.

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Like if you do a whois on a.com,

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you'll see that all the single-letter domain names

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have been reserved,

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and like in one of the RFC specifications,

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it explicitly says

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that the single-letter domains

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have all been reserved

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and you can't get them.

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However, there are some very small exceptions,

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Q.com being one of them.

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Another one is Z.com,

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which is owned by Nissan,

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and I've wondered for quite some time

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how much money Quest and Nissan paid

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to have them get this anyway.

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I actually recently found out,

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apparently,

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like way back in the old days,

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you could get single-letter domain names,

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and just no one thought of doing it.

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So, I don't know,

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kind of neat.

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Single-letter domain names,

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there aren't many of them,

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Quest happens to have one of them.

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Right, and isn't it true,

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I thought I read somewhere that

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all the single, double,

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and three-letter domain names

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are all gone?

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Oh, of course, yeah.

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I mean, if you have like a two-letter domain name,

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you can retire on that.

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Really?

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Now, but see,

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I mean, I do understand the,

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I guess the rarity,

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for lack of a better word,

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but let's say my two-letter domain name is

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QL.

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I mean,

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I would have to find a company

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with those initials.

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Quantum Leap.

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Ah, I guess.

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Quantum Leap?

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Who's going to pay?

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I don't know.

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I mean,

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I do understand it,

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but I don't quite see

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why people are willing

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to pay that much for it.

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People do it.

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Yeah.

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Domain names are an interesting,

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that's a whole study in and of itself,

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because another interesting phenomenon,

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since we're going off on a tangent,

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I've found sites

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that I have registered before in the past,

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or that we have,

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other BDP members have registered

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and things,

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where there are companies out there

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that will simply buy up

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your used domain name,

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no matter what it was,

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no matter what it was about.

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No, that is very true.

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No, no.

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It's even,

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it is dangerous

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to even run

14:33.020 --> 14:33.840
whois queries

14:33.840 --> 14:35.100
for certain domains,

14:35.220 --> 14:35.800
because someone will say,

14:35.880 --> 14:36.320
oh, look,

14:36.740 --> 14:37.860
this person is running

14:37.860 --> 14:39.040
lots and lots of whois queries

14:39.040 --> 14:39.680
for this domain.

14:40.000 --> 14:40.900
Maybe we should buy it,

14:41.080 --> 14:41.880
and so it's different

14:41.880 --> 14:42.540
than them from having it,

14:42.560 --> 14:43.420
then we sell it back to them.

14:43.660 --> 14:44.420
But no, definitely,

14:44.640 --> 14:46.080
if you have a domain

14:46.080 --> 14:47.740
and it just expired,

14:48.060 --> 14:49.720
especially if it is a short one

14:49.720 --> 14:51.020
or if it's in .com,

14:51.280 --> 14:53.260
they will register it immediately,

14:53.500 --> 14:54.320
and then they will try

14:54.320 --> 14:55.140
and sell it back to you.

14:55.820 --> 14:59.180
Yeah, and that usually only happens

14:59.180 --> 15:00.880
with some of the shadier companies

15:00.880 --> 15:02.260
will watch your whois queries

15:02.260 --> 15:02.980
through them.

15:03.640 --> 15:04.900
Generally, I don't think

15:04.900 --> 15:06.240
that happens with the Go Daddies

15:06.240 --> 15:07.180
and the larger companies

15:07.180 --> 15:08.040
in the world, I'll say.

15:08.380 --> 15:09.280
But yeah, I've heard stories

15:09.280 --> 15:10.020
like that as well.

15:10.280 --> 15:10.880
But no, actually,

15:11.040 --> 15:12.460
I'm not finding it

15:12.460 --> 15:13.880
with sites like that.

15:14.000 --> 15:16.500
I'll give you a specific example.

15:17.060 --> 15:17.900
Bland Inquisitor,

15:18.460 --> 15:19.380
a DDP member,

15:19.880 --> 15:21.620
a staff writer for 2600,

15:21.740 --> 15:22.500
a great guy.

15:22.500 --> 15:24.620
He had BlandInquisitor.com.

15:24.700 --> 15:26.000
That's a very unique name

15:26.000 --> 15:27.360
that is his handle,

15:27.480 --> 15:28.360
never been seen

15:28.360 --> 15:29.440
that I've ever seen anybody

15:29.440 --> 15:30.520
use it or have it before.

15:30.880 --> 15:32.780
Well, he let the registration expire

15:32.780 --> 15:34.240
as he pulled out of the scene,

15:34.500 --> 15:36.940
and someone bought the registration.

15:37.180 --> 15:37.780
And I think,

15:37.980 --> 15:39.740
I'm only guessing here,

15:40.060 --> 15:41.880
but I think their logic is simply

15:41.880 --> 15:43.400
somebody else owned it,

15:43.720 --> 15:45.900
there must be some sort of traffic to it,

15:46.060 --> 15:48.060
I will buy it and throw ads on it

15:48.060 --> 15:48.940
for the simple fact

15:48.940 --> 15:50.300
that I know I'm going to get hits

15:50.300 --> 15:51.520
because it already existed.

15:52.520 --> 15:54.280
That's actually a very good idea.

15:54.860 --> 15:55.300
I don't know,

15:55.800 --> 15:58.100
what else's motivation was

15:58.100 --> 16:01.100
that if someone wanted it at some point,

16:01.340 --> 16:02.600
probably someone else will want it

16:02.600 --> 16:03.080
in the future.

16:04.140 --> 16:05.980
Right, and that's another good example

16:05.980 --> 16:07.080
of that is an old site

16:07.080 --> 16:08.280
from one of our members,

16:08.420 --> 16:08.920
BIOS,

16:09.420 --> 16:10.500
who used to run a site

16:10.500 --> 16:12.100
called digitalrights.org.

16:12.780 --> 16:14.380
And this was back in the early days

16:14.380 --> 16:17.480
before the RAAA and MPAA

16:17.480 --> 16:18.880
started suing 12-year-olds

16:18.880 --> 16:19.440
and all that,

16:19.880 --> 16:21.060
which is a whole other tangent

16:21.060 --> 16:21.760
we won't go into,

16:21.860 --> 16:22.760
but back when that stuff

16:22.760 --> 16:23.780
was first starting

16:23.780 --> 16:25.140
and before it was really starting,

16:25.920 --> 16:27.300
he started that site up.

16:27.360 --> 16:28.200
Well, now that site,

16:28.420 --> 16:29.500
when it went public

16:29.500 --> 16:30.960
and when it was not renewed,

16:31.540 --> 16:32.480
that, I understand,

16:32.620 --> 16:33.380
there can be a domain

16:33.380 --> 16:35.240
of people fighting

16:35.240 --> 16:36.340
and willing to pay for it

16:36.340 --> 16:37.920
because that is a good domain name,

16:37.980 --> 16:38.620
a good site,

16:39.040 --> 16:39.720
could be used

16:39.720 --> 16:40.920
for a lot of different purposes.

16:41.380 --> 16:42.500
I can see that one.

16:43.420 --> 16:44.380
Blandinquisitor.com,

16:44.440 --> 16:45.540
the only person

16:45.540 --> 16:46.680
who would really want that

16:46.680 --> 16:47.620
would be, well,

16:47.800 --> 16:48.520
Blandinquisitor

16:48.520 --> 16:49.600
or somebody that,

16:51.060 --> 16:51.960
you know what I mean?

16:52.940 --> 16:53.780
I guess there's a lot

16:53.780 --> 16:54.740
of different examples

16:54.740 --> 16:55.960
and a lot of different motivations,

16:56.320 --> 16:58.000
but it's definitely

16:58.000 --> 17:00.940
an interesting phenomenon,

17:01.180 --> 17:01.500
I guess.

17:03.560 --> 17:04.360
Oh, actually,

17:04.460 --> 17:05.100
I just put up something.

17:05.420 --> 17:06.700
If you look at

17:06.700 --> 17:09.040
deleteddomains.com,

17:09.040 --> 17:10.480
they actually have

17:10.480 --> 17:12.080
a big, big list of domains

17:12.080 --> 17:14.520
sorted by how long they are

17:14.520 --> 17:17.200
that have just recently expired.

17:18.780 --> 17:20.100
Yeah, and there are companies

17:20.100 --> 17:21.440
that specialize in

17:21.440 --> 17:22.520
going out there

17:22.520 --> 17:24.120
and fighting to try to get domains

17:24.120 --> 17:25.240
that have recently expired.

17:26.400 --> 17:27.880
So, it is,

17:28.040 --> 17:29.060
I actually read,

17:29.940 --> 17:30.800
gosh, I wish I knew

17:30.800 --> 17:31.500
the link offhand,

17:31.540 --> 17:32.960
but I read some very interesting

17:32.960 --> 17:35.840
explanations of how

17:35.840 --> 17:36.740
that stuff works

17:36.740 --> 17:38.060
and there's multiple companies

17:38.060 --> 17:38.760
that swoop in

17:38.760 --> 17:39.400
to buy them up

17:39.400 --> 17:40.020
and they actually,

17:40.860 --> 17:41.800
it almost comes down

17:41.800 --> 17:43.400
to like a technological fight.

17:43.540 --> 17:44.300
They go in

17:44.300 --> 17:45.380
and they keep querying

17:45.380 --> 17:46.540
the name servers

17:46.540 --> 17:47.160
over and over

17:47.160 --> 17:47.620
and the different

17:47.620 --> 17:48.460
registrar servers,

17:48.580 --> 17:48.940
I should say,

17:48.980 --> 17:49.580
not the name servers,

17:49.680 --> 17:50.340
the registrars,

17:50.820 --> 17:52.060
like every few minutes

17:52.060 --> 17:52.860
to see if something

17:52.860 --> 17:53.600
has been released

17:53.600 --> 17:54.520
within those few minutes.

17:54.620 --> 17:54.760
I mean,

17:54.800 --> 17:55.260
they're fighting

17:55.260 --> 17:56.460
and tripping over each other

17:56.460 --> 17:57.440
trying to grab

17:57.440 --> 17:58.260
these domain names.

17:58.260 --> 17:59.600
So, it's not just one person

17:59.600 --> 18:00.320
or one company.

18:00.820 --> 18:02.400
Companies make a living

18:02.400 --> 18:03.220
doing this.

18:03.940 --> 18:05.660
So, anyway,

18:05.780 --> 18:07.400
we're going way off topic there.

18:07.460 --> 18:08.420
Let's come back here

18:08.420 --> 18:09.020
to some email.

18:09.980 --> 18:10.660
So, again,

18:10.820 --> 18:12.060
I would recommend Vonage

18:12.060 --> 18:13.520
back to answer the first email.

18:13.640 --> 18:14.360
I recommend Vonage

18:14.360 --> 18:15.060
if you want to just

18:15.060 --> 18:16.120
save some money.

18:16.280 --> 18:16.580
Otherwise,

18:16.780 --> 18:18.060
I would say go with Voice Pulse

18:18.060 --> 18:18.880
if you're planning on tying

18:18.880 --> 18:19.980
an end to an asterisk box.

18:20.080 --> 18:20.860
That's my advice.

18:20.860 --> 18:24.000
So, our next email here.

18:25.300 --> 18:26.480
Oh, my goodness.

18:26.620 --> 18:27.120
Help me out

18:27.120 --> 18:28.040
with this one, Virgil.

18:28.120 --> 18:28.980
I'm going to go with

18:28.980 --> 18:30.860
Reliyama.

18:32.020 --> 18:32.460
Reliyama?

18:32.860 --> 18:33.680
Yeah, that sounds right.

18:35.120 --> 18:37.620
R-E-L-Y-I-M-A-H.

18:37.860 --> 18:38.300
Reliyama.

18:39.340 --> 18:40.200
Who says,

18:40.340 --> 18:41.900
Hey, you stank and company.

18:42.760 --> 18:43.380
First of all,

18:43.420 --> 18:43.900
great show.

18:43.980 --> 18:45.480
I listen weekly from Australia.

18:46.400 --> 18:47.020
Hi, mate.

18:47.700 --> 18:49.060
And would just like to clear up

18:49.060 --> 18:49.960
a few things about

18:49.960 --> 18:51.120
the Web Accelerator

18:51.120 --> 18:52.120
provided by Google.

18:52.300 --> 18:52.920
Now, that, of course,

18:52.960 --> 18:54.420
was our main topic last week.

18:55.360 --> 18:57.080
You mentioned on episode 95

18:57.080 --> 18:58.040
that the Accelerator

18:58.040 --> 18:58.880
would only be good

18:58.880 --> 19:00.180
for dial-up.

19:00.760 --> 19:02.540
They say themselves

19:02.540 --> 19:03.020
at

19:03.020 --> 19:04.940
webaccelerator.google.com

19:04.940 --> 19:06.160
slash supporthtml

19:06.160 --> 19:07.780
that, quote,

19:07.880 --> 19:08.720
dial-up users

19:08.720 --> 19:09.660
may not see

19:09.660 --> 19:10.660
much improvement

19:10.660 --> 19:11.920
as Web Accelerator

19:11.920 --> 19:12.940
is currently optimized

19:12.940 --> 19:13.580
to speed up

19:13.580 --> 19:14.320
web page loading

19:14.320 --> 19:15.740
for broadband connections.

19:17.560 --> 19:18.600
I do agree

19:18.600 --> 19:19.560
with you entirely

19:19.560 --> 19:20.400
having a

19:20.400 --> 19:22.360
1.5 DSL

19:22.360 --> 19:23.080
connection myself

19:23.080 --> 19:24.100
that I cannot see

19:24.100 --> 19:24.780
a use for this

19:24.780 --> 19:25.520
on my connection

19:25.520 --> 19:26.500
besides becoming

19:26.500 --> 19:27.500
a spider for Google,

19:27.960 --> 19:28.720
thus rendering it

19:28.720 --> 19:29.980
entirely useless

19:29.980 --> 19:30.580
to anyone

19:30.580 --> 19:31.440
with half a brain.

19:32.140 --> 19:32.460
Also,

19:32.560 --> 19:33.680
the privacy issues

19:33.680 --> 19:34.420
mentioned about

19:34.420 --> 19:36.220
caching authenticated pages

19:36.220 --> 19:37.220
makes it even more

19:37.220 --> 19:38.120
useless to anybody

19:38.120 --> 19:38.960
who has a mind

19:38.960 --> 19:39.820
for security.

19:40.500 --> 19:40.920
Anyway,

19:41.040 --> 19:42.160
keep up the excellent shows

19:42.160 --> 19:43.680
and I'll keep listening.

19:44.240 --> 19:44.720
P.S.

19:44.720 --> 19:45.920
the Australian accent

19:45.920 --> 19:46.660
you used

19:46.660 --> 19:47.160
when reading

19:47.160 --> 19:47.800
your email

19:47.800 --> 19:48.820
from Skullface,

19:49.260 --> 19:49.900
a good friend

19:49.900 --> 19:50.860
a few episodes ago,

19:50.940 --> 19:52.340
was absolutely hopeless

19:52.340 --> 19:53.760
but hilarious

19:53.760 --> 19:54.520
nonetheless.

19:54.820 --> 19:55.500
I was laughing

19:55.500 --> 19:56.580
for the whole

19:56.580 --> 19:58.120
of the email section.

19:59.420 --> 19:59.820
Well,

20:00.360 --> 20:01.000
I'm glad

20:01.000 --> 20:02.100
I can amuse you

20:02.100 --> 20:03.180
like I'm a clown.

20:03.540 --> 20:04.180
I'm here just

20:04.180 --> 20:04.840
to be a joke

20:04.840 --> 20:05.480
for you people

20:05.480 --> 20:06.100
in Australia.

20:06.240 --> 20:06.920
I'm glad

20:06.920 --> 20:07.700
that I serve

20:07.700 --> 20:08.680
that purpose for you.

20:09.100 --> 20:09.240
No,

20:09.260 --> 20:09.680
I'm just kidding,

20:09.760 --> 20:10.000
of course.

20:10.060 --> 20:10.740
I don't mind

20:10.740 --> 20:12.200
taking a few jokes

20:12.200 --> 20:12.740
myself

20:12.740 --> 20:13.520
and putting myself

20:13.520 --> 20:14.040
out there.

20:14.120 --> 20:14.760
I know my

20:14.760 --> 20:16.220
impressions are

20:16.220 --> 20:17.880
hit and miss,

20:18.360 --> 20:19.660
usually missing greatly,

20:20.120 --> 20:21.760
so that's all good.

20:22.740 --> 20:23.180
Actually,

20:23.460 --> 20:23.920
Virgin and I

20:23.920 --> 20:24.560
were talking about

20:24.560 --> 20:25.600
this before the show.

20:25.800 --> 20:26.560
I thought

20:26.560 --> 20:28.340
the Google Web Accelerator

20:28.340 --> 20:28.960
has been pulled

20:28.960 --> 20:29.720
from the site.

20:30.520 --> 20:30.660
Now,

20:30.740 --> 20:31.260
the reason,

20:31.420 --> 20:31.660
I guess,

20:31.700 --> 20:32.380
is in question.

20:32.540 --> 20:33.500
I still say

20:33.500 --> 20:34.200
that they brought this

20:34.200 --> 20:34.960
down out of public

20:34.960 --> 20:35.480
pressure

20:35.480 --> 20:37.320
because of the thing,

20:37.380 --> 20:38.340
not that we pointed

20:38.340 --> 20:38.660
them out,

20:38.700 --> 20:39.600
a lot of people

20:39.600 --> 20:40.320
pointed this out

20:40.320 --> 20:41.140
besides us,

20:41.340 --> 20:42.000
so I don't think

20:42.000 --> 20:42.380
it's anything

20:42.380 --> 20:42.900
that we did,

20:42.980 --> 20:43.240
of course.

20:43.320 --> 20:44.040
I'm not that naive.

20:44.600 --> 20:45.100
But who didn't

20:45.100 --> 20:45.820
see this coming?

20:45.900 --> 20:46.600
A lot of people

20:46.600 --> 20:47.600
were having problems.

20:47.720 --> 20:48.780
They saw the privacy

20:48.780 --> 20:49.180
issues.

20:49.520 --> 20:50.320
I think they pulled

20:50.320 --> 20:50.880
it down because

20:50.880 --> 20:51.700
they realized

20:51.700 --> 20:52.140
they might have

20:52.140 --> 20:52.680
screwed up.

20:53.240 --> 20:53.820
But they haven't

20:53.820 --> 20:54.200
pulled it.

20:54.880 --> 20:55.980
But it says

20:55.980 --> 20:56.280
something,

20:56.560 --> 20:57.220
what does it say?

20:57.760 --> 20:59.720
It says that

20:59.720 --> 21:00.720
they have lots

21:00.720 --> 21:01.420
of users now

21:01.420 --> 21:01.920
and they are

21:01.920 --> 21:02.920
working on

21:02.920 --> 21:03.480
increasing their

21:03.480 --> 21:03.940
infrastructure

21:03.940 --> 21:04.780
so they can

21:04.780 --> 21:05.720
support more users.

21:06.400 --> 21:07.020
That is not

21:07.020 --> 21:07.340
pulling.

21:07.720 --> 21:08.240
It says,

21:08.400 --> 21:08.600
whoa,

21:08.740 --> 21:09.340
big demand

21:09.340 --> 21:11.120
must recoup

21:11.120 --> 21:11.600
a little bit.

21:12.000 --> 21:13.340
But again,

21:13.480 --> 21:13.920
this is,

21:14.220 --> 21:14.820
I guess maybe

21:14.820 --> 21:15.540
this is my whole

21:15.540 --> 21:16.340
Google conspiracy

21:16.340 --> 21:17.420
coming back again,

21:17.800 --> 21:19.080
but I don't

21:19.080 --> 21:20.040
necessarily trust

21:20.040 --> 21:20.800
that's the real

21:20.800 --> 21:21.060
reason.

21:21.160 --> 21:21.500
That's their

21:21.500 --> 21:22.340
publicly stated

21:22.340 --> 21:22.760
reason.

21:23.680 --> 21:24.240
Maybe they

21:24.240 --> 21:24.800
pulled it

21:24.800 --> 21:25.620
or they've said

21:25.620 --> 21:26.060
they've reached

21:26.060 --> 21:26.560
their limit.

21:26.940 --> 21:27.300
What they're

21:27.300 --> 21:27.980
actually doing

21:27.980 --> 21:28.460
is fixing

21:28.460 --> 21:29.100
the problems

21:29.100 --> 21:29.480
with it.

21:29.600 --> 21:29.980
And then they

21:29.980 --> 21:30.640
will re-release

21:30.640 --> 21:31.060
it when they've

21:31.060 --> 21:31.700
got the problems

21:31.700 --> 21:32.700
fixed and claim

21:32.700 --> 21:33.560
that their

21:33.560 --> 21:34.440
infrastructure was

21:34.440 --> 21:35.040
upgraded or

21:35.040 --> 21:35.400
whatever.

21:36.020 --> 21:36.300
Well,

21:36.540 --> 21:38.260
people are

21:38.260 --> 21:38.580
using it

21:38.580 --> 21:38.980
right now.

21:39.120 --> 21:39.660
I know people

21:39.660 --> 21:40.160
who are using

21:40.160 --> 21:40.980
Google Accelerator

21:40.980 --> 21:41.480
right now

21:41.480 --> 21:43.200
and there's

21:43.200 --> 21:43.660
no downtime

21:43.660 --> 21:44.140
or anything.

21:44.500 --> 21:45.060
I guess it's

21:45.060 --> 21:45.580
possible that

21:45.580 --> 21:46.040
they could be

21:46.040 --> 21:46.600
revamping the

21:46.600 --> 21:47.060
service for

21:47.060 --> 21:48.960
privacy reasons.

21:49.740 --> 21:50.000
Right,

21:50.080 --> 21:50.880
and they'll re-release

21:50.880 --> 21:51.640
a new one and

21:51.640 --> 21:52.020
they'll probably

21:52.020 --> 21:52.700
make those people

21:52.700 --> 21:53.120
who are still

21:53.120 --> 21:53.800
using it upgrade.

21:53.920 --> 21:54.240
I'm not saying

21:54.240 --> 21:54.780
they've disabled

21:54.780 --> 21:55.380
it completely,

21:55.600 --> 21:56.440
but you can't

21:56.440 --> 21:57.260
download it anymore.

21:57.920 --> 21:58.360
That's true.

21:58.620 --> 21:58.760
Right?

21:58.760 --> 22:00.300
Of interest,

22:00.440 --> 22:00.600
though,

22:00.720 --> 22:01.600
when the Google

22:01.600 --> 22:02.280
toolbar was

22:02.280 --> 22:02.900
released and

22:02.900 --> 22:03.940
there were privacy

22:03.940 --> 22:04.560
considerations,

22:05.120 --> 22:06.100
they actually had

22:06.100 --> 22:06.960
on the Google

22:06.960 --> 22:07.840
toolbar page,

22:08.280 --> 22:08.720
they said,

22:08.860 --> 22:09.080
oh,

22:09.400 --> 22:09.660
whoops,

22:09.720 --> 22:10.040
sorry about that

22:10.040 --> 22:10.760
privacy thing.

22:11.100 --> 22:11.780
We have a new

22:11.780 --> 22:13.460
privacy-enabled

22:13.460 --> 22:14.380
version that you

22:14.380 --> 22:15.080
can download now.

22:15.720 --> 22:16.940
So in the Google

22:16.940 --> 22:17.660
toolbar where there

22:17.660 --> 22:18.560
really was a big

22:18.560 --> 22:19.180
concern about

22:19.180 --> 22:19.740
there being a lot

22:19.740 --> 22:20.600
of privacy issues,

22:21.020 --> 22:21.560
they said it

22:21.560 --> 22:22.180
very much up front.

22:22.680 --> 22:23.060
Now,

22:23.140 --> 22:23.920
that doesn't mean

22:23.920 --> 22:24.660
that they haven't

22:24.660 --> 22:25.340
changed now,

22:25.820 --> 22:27.920
but that's at least

22:27.920 --> 22:29.600
some track record.

22:30.580 --> 22:30.860
Right,

22:30.920 --> 22:31.540
and that I think

22:31.540 --> 22:32.420
was related back

22:32.420 --> 22:34.500
to the page rank

22:34.500 --> 22:35.260
system they had

22:35.260 --> 22:35.720
in there at the

22:35.720 --> 22:36.040
time.

22:36.740 --> 22:36.880
Oh,

22:36.900 --> 22:37.100
no,

22:37.480 --> 22:38.460
the problem

22:38.460 --> 22:39.380
with the Google

22:39.380 --> 22:40.740
toolbar is that

22:40.740 --> 22:41.440
it knows who

22:41.440 --> 22:41.860
you are when

22:41.860 --> 22:42.160
you're visiting

22:42.160 --> 22:42.580
a page.

22:43.880 --> 22:44.460
So let's say,

22:44.540 --> 22:44.900
for example,

22:44.980 --> 22:45.200
they say,

22:45.300 --> 22:45.440
oh,

22:45.680 --> 22:46.640
people who visit

22:46.640 --> 22:48.080
this site also

22:48.080 --> 22:48.640
visit this other

22:48.640 --> 22:49.940
site and stuff

22:49.940 --> 22:50.340
like that.

22:50.600 --> 22:50.820
Oh,

22:50.840 --> 22:51.080
see,

22:51.260 --> 22:52.520
that's exactly

22:52.520 --> 22:54.360
what I don't

22:54.360 --> 22:54.620
want.

22:55.080 --> 22:55.520
Oh,

22:55.600 --> 22:56.120
man.

22:56.800 --> 22:57.600
That's exactly

22:57.600 --> 22:58.160
what I don't

22:58.160 --> 22:58.640
like about

22:58.640 --> 22:59.160
Google is

22:59.160 --> 22:59.640
them doing

22:59.640 --> 23:00.040
that.

23:00.800 --> 23:01.160
And they're

23:01.160 --> 23:01.660
doing that

23:01.660 --> 23:02.360
toolbar or

23:02.360 --> 23:03.020
not now.

23:04.040 --> 23:04.420
They're

23:04.420 --> 23:04.760
marking,

23:04.940 --> 23:05.460
they're following

23:05.460 --> 23:05.880
everything.

23:06.020 --> 23:06.540
If you're logged

23:06.540 --> 23:06.880
in,

23:07.060 --> 23:07.900
I already went

23:07.900 --> 23:08.220
over this,

23:08.260 --> 23:08.480
you know what,

23:08.480 --> 23:08.760
I'm not going

23:08.760 --> 23:08.840
to,

23:09.140 --> 23:09.740
I probably

23:09.740 --> 23:10.440
shouldn't rehash

23:10.440 --> 23:11.140
the same topic

23:11.140 --> 23:11.480
on here,

23:11.560 --> 23:12.400
but they're

23:12.400 --> 23:13.560
tracking everything

23:13.560 --> 23:14.300
at Google

23:14.300 --> 23:16.740
and anybody

23:16.740 --> 23:19.180
with any

23:19.180 --> 23:20.440
concern for

23:20.440 --> 23:20.960
their privacy

23:20.960 --> 23:21.460
should just

23:21.460 --> 23:22.020
be careful.

23:22.440 --> 23:22.880
I'm not going

23:22.880 --> 23:23.360
to rehash.

23:23.440 --> 23:23.780
That was a

23:23.780 --> 23:24.240
whole long

23:24.240 --> 23:25.580
conversation and

23:25.580 --> 23:25.940
I'm not going

23:25.940 --> 23:26.420
to redo it on

23:26.420 --> 23:26.900
the show right

23:26.900 --> 23:27.160
now,

23:27.300 --> 23:29.100
but Google

23:29.100 --> 23:29.780
has a lot

23:29.780 --> 23:30.380
of scary

23:30.380 --> 23:31.000
information.

23:31.220 --> 23:31.500
I think

23:31.500 --> 23:31.820
that's the

23:31.820 --> 23:32.180
long and

23:32.180 --> 23:32.540
short of

23:32.540 --> 23:32.680
it.

23:34.560 --> 23:35.040
So,

23:35.180 --> 23:35.540
let's move

23:35.540 --> 23:36.160
on to another

23:36.160 --> 23:37.020
email here.

23:37.900 --> 23:38.720
Excuse me.

23:39.220 --> 23:39.860
Next email

23:39.860 --> 23:40.460
comes from

23:40.460 --> 23:41.180
Ghostless,

23:41.300 --> 23:42.020
who says,

23:42.400 --> 23:43.720
Ghostless,

23:44.080 --> 23:44.680
excuse me,

23:45.020 --> 23:45.520
who says,

23:45.600 --> 23:46.500
Dear Stank Dog,

23:46.840 --> 23:47.400
after hearing

23:47.400 --> 23:47.940
all of your

23:47.940 --> 23:48.660
anti-Google

23:48.660 --> 23:48.960
rants,

23:49.000 --> 23:49.140
well,

23:49.200 --> 23:49.700
that's timely.

23:50.240 --> 23:50.700
Great.

23:50.860 --> 23:51.500
Way to segue

23:51.500 --> 23:52.200
into the great.

23:52.580 --> 23:53.360
I thought I

23:53.360 --> 23:54.020
might draw your

23:54.020 --> 23:54.740
attention to a

23:54.740 --> 23:55.540
nice little site.

23:55.540 --> 23:56.200
Hopefully this

23:56.200 --> 23:56.580
site is

23:56.580 --> 23:57.140
something new

23:57.140 --> 23:57.540
to you.

23:57.680 --> 23:58.120
If it's

23:58.120 --> 23:58.860
not new

23:58.860 --> 23:59.400
to you,

24:00.080 --> 24:00.860
maybe you

24:00.860 --> 24:01.440
could draw

24:01.440 --> 24:01.900
the listeners'

24:02.080 --> 24:02.700
attention to

24:02.700 --> 24:03.480
it as well.

24:03.960 --> 24:04.200
It's

24:04.200 --> 24:06.980
www.scroogle.org.

24:07.060 --> 24:07.280
That's

24:07.280 --> 24:09.280
S-C-R-O-O-G-L-E

24:09.280 --> 24:10.300
dot org.

24:10.860 --> 24:11.840
They call it

24:11.840 --> 24:12.500
a Google

24:12.500 --> 24:13.200
scraper.

24:13.360 --> 24:13.980
It is basically

24:13.980 --> 24:14.760
Google for the

24:14.760 --> 24:15.800
anti-Googlers.

24:17.080 --> 24:17.360
Wow,

24:17.400 --> 24:17.800
that sounds

24:17.800 --> 24:18.120
dirty,

24:18.220 --> 24:18.500
but I don't

24:18.500 --> 24:18.900
know why.

24:18.900 --> 24:21.380
What it does

24:21.380 --> 24:22.200
is it gives

24:22.200 --> 24:22.460
you the

24:22.460 --> 24:23.060
results of

24:23.060 --> 24:24.380
all powerful

24:24.380 --> 24:25.080
Google search

24:25.080 --> 24:25.420
engine,

24:25.520 --> 24:26.000
minus the

24:26.000 --> 24:26.320
cookies,

24:26.840 --> 24:27.400
search term

24:27.400 --> 24:27.820
records,

24:27.960 --> 24:28.880
access logs,

24:29.240 --> 24:29.700
and best

24:29.700 --> 24:30.180
of all,

24:30.420 --> 24:30.920
ads.

24:33.080 --> 24:33.480
Okay,

24:33.640 --> 24:33.980
thank you

24:33.980 --> 24:34.540
Ghostless for

24:34.540 --> 24:34.940
the email.

24:35.120 --> 24:35.780
I trimmed a

24:35.780 --> 24:36.200
little bit off

24:36.200 --> 24:36.340
there,

24:36.440 --> 24:38.780
but there are

24:38.780 --> 24:39.260
a couple other

24:39.260 --> 24:39.820
sites that do

24:39.820 --> 24:40.500
that as well.

24:41.120 --> 24:41.600
What was the

24:41.600 --> 24:42.360
one we were

24:42.360 --> 24:42.820
talking about

24:42.820 --> 24:43.180
before?

24:44.180 --> 24:46.140
Google-watch.org.

24:46.260 --> 24:46.560
Right,

24:46.660 --> 24:46.780
yeah,

24:46.820 --> 24:47.280
I think I've

24:47.280 --> 24:47.680
mentioned that

24:47.680 --> 24:48.060
on the show

24:48.060 --> 24:48.320
before,

24:48.400 --> 24:49.460
Google-watch,

24:50.240 --> 24:50.820
and I

24:50.820 --> 24:51.660
had never

24:51.660 --> 24:52.000
heard of

24:52.000 --> 24:52.300
Scroogle,

24:52.400 --> 24:52.740
so thank

24:52.740 --> 24:52.960
you for

24:52.960 --> 24:53.100
this.

24:53.180 --> 24:53.540
I did go

24:53.540 --> 24:53.940
check that

24:53.940 --> 24:54.160
out.

24:55.120 --> 24:57.060
It didn't

24:57.060 --> 24:57.520
have anything

24:57.520 --> 24:57.840
on there

24:57.840 --> 24:58.440
new for me,

24:58.480 --> 24:59.000
quite frankly,

24:59.180 --> 25:00.180
but it

25:00.180 --> 25:00.660
does work

25:00.660 --> 25:01.260
as advertised,

25:01.920 --> 25:02.240
and it

25:02.240 --> 25:02.560
looked to

25:02.560 --> 25:04.440
me strikingly

25:04.440 --> 25:05.140
familiar,

25:05.860 --> 25:06.840
similar to

25:06.840 --> 25:07.760
Google-watch,

25:07.920 --> 25:08.420
to be quite

25:08.420 --> 25:08.620
honest.

25:08.640 --> 25:09.040
It may be

25:09.040 --> 25:09.320
the same

25:09.320 --> 25:09.540
people.

25:09.620 --> 25:09.800
I didn't

25:09.800 --> 25:10.320
have time

25:10.320 --> 25:11.280
to go

25:11.280 --> 25:11.720
into it

25:11.720 --> 25:12.180
and look,

25:12.580 --> 25:13.480
but I

25:13.480 --> 25:13.680
don't know,

25:13.760 --> 25:14.100
maybe it's

25:14.100 --> 25:15.080
just more

25:15.080 --> 25:16.240
of my paranoia

25:16.240 --> 25:16.760
of tying all

25:16.760 --> 25:17.040
this stuff

25:17.040 --> 25:17.340
together.

25:17.440 --> 25:17.600
I don't

25:17.600 --> 25:17.780
know.

25:18.060 --> 25:21.100
I can

25:21.100 --> 25:21.320
definitely

25:21.320 --> 25:21.980
sense a

25:21.980 --> 25:22.380
very

25:22.380 --> 25:23.740
anti-Google

25:23.740 --> 25:24.100
sentiment

25:24.100 --> 25:24.440
here,

25:24.940 --> 25:25.440
but I

25:25.440 --> 25:25.700
don't know.

25:26.040 --> 25:26.680
I'm actually

25:26.680 --> 25:26.960
not too

25:26.960 --> 25:27.320
worried about

25:27.320 --> 25:27.520
Google.

25:28.240 --> 25:29.200
I think the

25:29.200 --> 25:29.860
real problems

25:29.860 --> 25:30.240
with Google

25:30.240 --> 25:30.720
are,

25:30.820 --> 25:31.260
number one,

25:31.320 --> 25:31.600
that you can

25:31.600 --> 25:32.320
basically assume

25:32.320 --> 25:33.000
anything they

25:33.000 --> 25:33.360
know,

25:33.740 --> 25:35.160
the federal

25:35.160 --> 25:35.880
government can

25:35.880 --> 25:36.140
know.

25:36.540 --> 25:37.240
And not only

25:37.240 --> 25:37.600
that,

25:37.800 --> 25:38.360
anything Google

25:38.360 --> 25:38.960
knows,

25:39.560 --> 25:41.060
someone else

25:41.060 --> 25:41.660
can find out

25:41.660 --> 25:42.380
by a

25:42.380 --> 25:42.700
subpoena.

25:43.800 --> 25:44.900
But that's

25:44.900 --> 25:45.680
just the way

25:45.680 --> 25:46.060
it is living

25:46.060 --> 25:46.640
in the U.S.

25:47.360 --> 25:47.800
However,

25:48.000 --> 25:48.360
as far as

25:48.360 --> 25:48.760
Google being

25:48.760 --> 25:49.220
evil by

25:49.220 --> 25:49.780
themselves,

25:50.220 --> 25:50.580
I mean,

25:51.100 --> 25:51.760
admittedly,

25:51.800 --> 25:52.260
they do have

25:52.260 --> 25:52.980
lots of power

25:52.980 --> 25:53.820
and you just

25:53.820 --> 25:54.320
kind of get this

25:54.320 --> 25:54.700
thought in the

25:54.700 --> 25:55.080
back of your

25:55.080 --> 25:55.280
mind.

25:55.340 --> 25:55.600
You're like,

25:55.700 --> 25:55.980
wow,

25:56.040 --> 25:56.340
you're just

25:56.340 --> 25:56.880
getting bigger

25:56.880 --> 25:57.320
and bigger,

25:57.420 --> 25:57.840
aren't you?

25:57.840 --> 25:58.720
And you're

25:58.720 --> 25:59.400
just knowing

25:59.400 --> 25:59.940
everything.

26:00.440 --> 26:00.820
But still,

26:01.060 --> 26:02.560
so far,

26:02.700 --> 26:03.120
they have been

26:03.120 --> 26:04.180
completely saintly.

26:05.300 --> 26:06.240
There are

26:06.240 --> 26:06.920
some things on

26:06.920 --> 26:07.720
Google Watch

26:07.720 --> 26:08.260
and stuff like

26:08.260 --> 26:08.540
that.

26:08.780 --> 26:09.200
But no,

26:09.320 --> 26:10.040
they're funding

26:10.040 --> 26:10.540
Wikipedia.

26:11.820 --> 26:12.740
They're going

26:12.740 --> 26:13.580
to Stanford

26:13.580 --> 26:14.360
and they're

26:14.360 --> 26:15.800
digitizing libraries.

26:16.340 --> 26:16.580
And these are

26:16.580 --> 26:16.740
all,

26:16.920 --> 26:17.300
I mean,

26:17.500 --> 26:17.980
they've been a

26:17.980 --> 26:18.560
saintly company.

26:19.300 --> 26:19.960
Other things I

26:19.960 --> 26:20.160
think that's

26:20.160 --> 26:20.660
also very

26:20.660 --> 26:21.080
interesting,

26:21.240 --> 26:21.580
which makes

26:21.580 --> 26:22.100
them different

26:22.100 --> 26:22.480
from the other

26:22.480 --> 26:22.780
search engine

26:22.780 --> 26:23.180
companies,

26:23.580 --> 26:24.120
is that they

26:24.120 --> 26:24.620
have not been

26:24.620 --> 26:25.280
doing content.

26:25.920 --> 26:26.420
For example,

26:26.760 --> 26:27.440
if you look at

26:27.440 --> 26:29.000
MSN or AOL,

26:29.820 --> 26:30.660
like MSN has

26:30.660 --> 26:31.220
their MSN

26:31.220 --> 26:31.560
and Carta

26:31.560 --> 26:32.180
encyclopedia.

26:32.420 --> 26:32.700
And if you

26:32.700 --> 26:33.220
search for

26:33.220 --> 26:33.880
some famous

26:33.880 --> 26:34.260
person,

26:34.600 --> 26:34.940
it'll say,

26:35.040 --> 26:35.220
oh,

26:35.460 --> 26:37.300
get this MSN

26:37.300 --> 26:38.300
and Carta

26:38.300 --> 26:39.220
article and

26:39.220 --> 26:39.640
we'll give you

26:39.640 --> 26:40.080
half of it

26:40.080 --> 26:40.320
and then you

26:40.320 --> 26:40.700
pay for the

26:40.700 --> 26:41.140
other half.

26:41.540 --> 26:41.780
Right.

26:41.860 --> 26:42.060
Now,

26:42.200 --> 26:42.900
Google does

26:42.900 --> 26:43.380
not do that.

26:43.560 --> 26:44.280
They make

26:44.280 --> 26:44.940
no content.

26:45.500 --> 26:46.320
So thus,

26:46.420 --> 26:46.820
there's no

26:46.820 --> 26:47.120
reason for

26:47.120 --> 26:47.420
them to be

26:47.420 --> 26:47.780
biased,

26:48.760 --> 26:49.140
which I

26:49.140 --> 26:49.360
think is

26:49.360 --> 26:50.040
very important.

26:51.580 --> 26:52.460
And I

26:52.460 --> 26:52.920
even think

26:52.920 --> 26:53.380
Google knows

26:53.380 --> 26:53.620
this.

26:53.800 --> 26:54.200
Like if you

26:54.200 --> 26:54.940
note the

26:54.940 --> 26:55.580
google

26:55.580 --> 26:56.720
dictionary.com

26:56.720 --> 26:57.080
link where

26:57.080 --> 26:57.600
they define

26:57.600 --> 26:58.100
words,

26:58.600 --> 26:59.860
which is now

26:59.860 --> 27:00.660
answers.com,

27:01.460 --> 27:02.180
all the

27:02.180 --> 27:02.880
information there

27:02.880 --> 27:03.440
is basically

27:03.440 --> 27:04.220
the 1911

27:04.220 --> 27:05.240
Webster's

27:05.240 --> 27:05.680
Dictionary.

27:05.780 --> 27:06.260
Full public

27:06.260 --> 27:06.740
domain.

27:08.460 --> 27:09.020
A guy at

27:09.020 --> 27:11.400
Google could do

27:11.400 --> 27:11.780
that in a

27:11.780 --> 27:13.120
month and just

27:13.120 --> 27:14.100
completely replace

27:14.100 --> 27:14.400
that.

27:14.600 --> 27:14.960
However,

27:15.060 --> 27:15.360
they have not

27:15.360 --> 27:15.840
done that,

27:17.020 --> 27:19.320
which I find

27:19.320 --> 27:19.920
very interesting.

27:21.300 --> 27:22.320
I think it

27:22.320 --> 27:22.760
very clearly

27:22.760 --> 27:23.280
shows that

27:23.280 --> 27:23.800
Google is

27:23.800 --> 27:24.460
trying to stay

27:24.460 --> 27:25.040
away from

27:25.040 --> 27:25.900
doing content

27:25.900 --> 27:26.260
so that

27:26.260 --> 27:27.260
way they're

27:27.260 --> 27:28.100
never thought

27:28.100 --> 27:28.280
to be

27:28.280 --> 27:28.740
impartial.

27:29.400 --> 27:29.920
Right.

27:30.040 --> 27:30.180
Well,

27:30.380 --> 27:31.700
I've never

27:31.700 --> 27:32.220
said that

27:32.220 --> 27:32.680
they've done

27:32.680 --> 27:33.940
anything yet,

27:34.540 --> 27:34.900
yet,

27:34.960 --> 27:35.340
but the

27:35.340 --> 27:36.320
potential is

27:36.320 --> 27:36.480
there.

27:36.560 --> 27:36.760
And that's

27:36.760 --> 27:37.080
all I've

27:37.080 --> 27:37.480
ever said

27:37.480 --> 27:38.280
is that we

27:38.280 --> 27:38.600
should be

27:38.600 --> 27:39.060
careful of

27:39.060 --> 27:39.620
the potential.

27:40.040 --> 27:40.580
I said the

27:40.580 --> 27:41.380
same thing

27:41.380 --> 27:42.120
about Microsoft

27:42.120 --> 27:43.960
Passport many,

27:44.100 --> 27:44.600
many episodes

27:44.600 --> 27:45.380
ago, and the

27:45.380 --> 27:46.100
same does

27:46.100 --> 27:47.200
hold true for

27:47.200 --> 27:47.640
Google.

27:48.180 --> 27:48.840
So far,

27:49.300 --> 27:50.900
they're

27:50.900 --> 27:52.040
straddling the

27:52.040 --> 27:52.320
border.

27:52.320 --> 27:53.660
You've got to

27:53.660 --> 27:53.960
admit they're

27:53.960 --> 27:54.480
getting closer.

27:54.640 --> 27:54.760
I mean,

27:54.820 --> 27:55.200
they're going

27:55.200 --> 27:55.880
through your

27:55.880 --> 27:57.320
Gmail and

27:57.320 --> 27:58.900
parsing through

27:58.900 --> 28:00.260
it to send

28:00.260 --> 28:01.500
custom ads

28:01.500 --> 28:02.000
to you.

28:02.520 --> 28:03.380
But we're

28:03.380 --> 28:03.940
taking their

28:03.940 --> 28:04.500
word for it

28:04.500 --> 28:04.760
that they're

28:04.760 --> 28:05.420
stopping there.

28:05.600 --> 28:05.740
I mean,

28:05.780 --> 28:06.080
let's be

28:06.080 --> 28:06.360
frank,

28:06.440 --> 28:06.720
we are

28:06.720 --> 28:07.160
trusting

28:07.160 --> 28:07.620
Google.

28:07.880 --> 28:08.400
In Google

28:08.400 --> 28:09.080
we trust.

28:10.260 --> 28:11.020
And no,

28:11.100 --> 28:11.620
it has not

28:11.620 --> 28:12.180
bitten us

28:12.180 --> 28:12.980
exactly in

28:12.980 --> 28:13.500
the past

28:13.500 --> 28:13.960
yet,

28:14.440 --> 28:14.860
although I've

28:14.860 --> 28:15.200
had a few

28:15.200 --> 28:15.820
minor issues

28:15.820 --> 28:16.260
with Google

28:16.260 --> 28:16.560
with their

28:16.560 --> 28:17.240
advertising and

28:17.240 --> 28:17.420
stuff,

28:17.480 --> 28:17.800
but that's

28:17.800 --> 28:18.380
a whole other

28:18.380 --> 28:19.860
topic that may

28:19.860 --> 28:20.340
come out at

28:20.340 --> 28:20.660
DEFCON.

28:20.660 --> 28:22.360
But it's

28:22.360 --> 28:22.700
just the

28:22.700 --> 28:23.160
potential.

28:23.440 --> 28:24.500
Tell me what

28:24.500 --> 28:24.960
you think about

28:24.960 --> 28:25.160
this.

28:25.220 --> 28:25.580
This, I

28:25.580 --> 28:26.340
think, is,

28:26.860 --> 28:27.400
I don't know

28:27.400 --> 28:27.740
if I'll say

28:27.740 --> 28:29.080
evil, but it's

28:29.080 --> 28:29.640
conniving,

28:29.920 --> 28:30.300
certainly.

28:30.980 --> 28:32.940
You and I

28:32.940 --> 28:33.680
both know and

28:33.680 --> 28:34.360
agree that

28:34.360 --> 28:35.440
Google is

28:35.440 --> 28:36.560
tracking everything,

28:36.760 --> 28:37.200
all of your

28:37.200 --> 28:37.900
search words,

28:38.020 --> 28:38.600
the times,

28:38.820 --> 28:39.340
which sites

28:39.340 --> 28:39.740
you click

28:39.740 --> 28:40.060
through,

28:40.160 --> 28:40.500
etc.,

28:40.500 --> 28:40.780
etc.

28:40.900 --> 28:41.460
We know

28:41.460 --> 28:41.920
they're keeping

28:41.920 --> 28:42.400
that and it

28:42.400 --> 28:42.720
could be

28:42.720 --> 28:43.220
subpoenaed.

28:43.440 --> 28:43.840
And frankly,

28:43.980 --> 28:44.340
that's no

28:44.340 --> 28:44.780
different than

28:44.780 --> 28:45.300
any other

28:45.300 --> 28:45.800
site out

28:45.800 --> 28:46.060
there.

28:46.660 --> 28:47.020
But here's

28:47.020 --> 28:48.260
something that

28:48.260 --> 28:48.660
I noticed.

28:48.800 --> 28:49.200
I agree with

28:49.200 --> 28:49.560
that, but

28:49.560 --> 28:51.400
that's not

28:51.400 --> 28:51.920
Google being

28:51.920 --> 28:52.220
evil.

28:52.400 --> 28:53.820
That's just

28:53.820 --> 28:54.740
fear of them

28:54.740 --> 28:55.400
being subpoenaed.

28:55.600 --> 28:55.980
And I do

28:55.980 --> 28:57.420
admit, if

28:57.420 --> 28:59.060
Google has to

28:59.060 --> 29:00.080
say everything

29:00.080 --> 29:00.700
they know about

29:00.700 --> 29:01.620
you, that's

29:01.620 --> 29:02.240
probably a lot.

29:02.680 --> 29:03.600
Well, watch.

29:03.680 --> 29:04.420
Let me finish.

29:05.340 --> 29:06.560
With Gmail now,

29:06.640 --> 29:07.080
I don't know if

29:07.080 --> 29:07.460
you've noticed

29:07.460 --> 29:07.680
this.

29:07.720 --> 29:08.000
I just

29:08.000 --> 29:08.480
mentioned it

29:08.480 --> 29:09.080
last week.

29:09.720 --> 29:10.260
I just

29:10.260 --> 29:10.800
noticed now

29:10.800 --> 29:11.200
that if you

29:11.200 --> 29:11.820
sign into your

29:11.820 --> 29:12.580
Gmail account,

29:13.000 --> 29:13.640
it used to be

29:13.640 --> 29:14.500
that Gmail was

29:14.500 --> 29:15.540
completely independent

29:15.540 --> 29:16.200
of Google.

29:16.200 --> 29:17.960
if you look

29:17.960 --> 29:18.660
now, if you

29:18.660 --> 29:19.220
sign into

29:19.220 --> 29:20.520
Gmail and

29:20.520 --> 29:21.040
do not

29:21.040 --> 29:21.880
sign out,

29:22.640 --> 29:23.200
you actually

29:23.200 --> 29:24.080
stay logged

29:24.080 --> 29:25.140
in, not only

29:25.140 --> 29:26.280
to Gmail.com,

29:26.360 --> 29:26.720
but to

29:26.720 --> 29:27.720
Google.com.

29:28.380 --> 29:28.700
And that

29:28.700 --> 29:29.920
history thing,

29:30.040 --> 29:30.680
that feature

29:30.680 --> 29:31.040
they added

29:31.040 --> 29:31.580
recently that

29:31.580 --> 29:32.020
tracks your

29:32.020 --> 29:32.440
history and

29:32.440 --> 29:32.860
lets you go

29:32.860 --> 29:33.220
back and

29:33.220 --> 29:33.720
redo your

29:33.720 --> 29:34.340
searches and

29:34.340 --> 29:35.120
if you want

29:35.120 --> 29:35.500
to go back

29:35.500 --> 29:35.760
and look

29:35.760 --> 29:36.220
something up

29:36.220 --> 29:36.600
you searched

29:36.600 --> 29:37.160
for before,

29:37.820 --> 29:38.800
all by itself

29:38.800 --> 29:39.360
that sounds

29:39.360 --> 29:40.000
good and all,

29:40.540 --> 29:41.040
but they are

29:41.040 --> 29:41.640
tying these

29:41.640 --> 29:42.180
things together.

29:42.360 --> 29:43.040
I did not

29:43.040 --> 29:43.880
at any point

29:43.880 --> 29:44.840
in time authorize

29:44.840 --> 29:45.700
my Gmail account

29:45.700 --> 29:46.340
to be tied

29:46.340 --> 29:46.820
into my

29:46.820 --> 29:47.040
Google.

29:47.120 --> 29:47.540
I probably

29:47.540 --> 29:47.960
did in a

29:47.960 --> 29:48.440
fine print,

29:48.520 --> 29:48.820
let's be

29:48.820 --> 29:49.080
honest.

29:49.800 --> 29:50.460
Probably in

29:50.460 --> 29:50.800
their fine

29:50.800 --> 29:51.060
print it

29:51.060 --> 29:51.340
said they

29:51.340 --> 29:51.680
could do

29:51.680 --> 29:52.300
that and

29:52.300 --> 29:53.120
being the

29:53.120 --> 29:54.100
non-user

29:54.100 --> 29:54.540
license

29:54.540 --> 29:54.980
agreement

29:54.980 --> 29:56.000
reader that

29:56.000 --> 29:56.500
I am,

29:56.800 --> 29:57.240
I probably

29:57.240 --> 29:57.780
clicked right

29:57.780 --> 29:58.280
through it.

29:58.940 --> 29:59.420
But I

29:59.420 --> 29:59.880
think that

29:59.880 --> 30:00.420
is certainly

30:00.420 --> 30:01.180
underhanded

30:01.180 --> 30:01.760
for them

30:01.760 --> 30:02.160
to now

30:02.160 --> 30:02.720
automatically

30:02.720 --> 30:03.200
log me

30:03.200 --> 30:03.720
into Google

30:03.720 --> 30:04.300
and let's

30:04.300 --> 30:04.760
say I do

30:04.760 --> 30:05.240
a search

30:05.240 --> 30:06.740
for, I

30:06.740 --> 30:07.320
don't know,

30:07.460 --> 30:08.440
grandma porn

30:08.440 --> 30:09.240
or something

30:09.240 --> 30:10.200
embarrassing.

30:10.860 --> 30:11.420
I never

30:11.420 --> 30:11.960
logged out of

30:11.960 --> 30:12.500
Google and

30:12.500 --> 30:12.960
now Google

30:12.960 --> 30:13.680
has logged

30:13.680 --> 30:14.320
that search

30:14.320 --> 30:14.700
and has

30:14.700 --> 30:15.000
that in

30:15.000 --> 30:15.580
a profile

30:15.580 --> 30:16.740
associated

30:16.740 --> 30:17.520
with my

30:17.520 --> 30:18.020
name and

30:18.020 --> 30:18.560
my Gmail

30:18.560 --> 30:19.080
account.

30:19.600 --> 30:20.120
I do

30:20.120 --> 30:20.620
think that

30:20.620 --> 30:21.180
is certainly

30:21.180 --> 30:22.060
underhanded

30:22.060 --> 30:22.700
that they

30:22.700 --> 30:23.020
did it

30:23.020 --> 30:23.580
without me

30:23.580 --> 30:24.220
logging into

30:24.220 --> 30:24.500
Google.

30:24.600 --> 30:25.400
They assume

30:25.400 --> 30:26.280
that I

30:26.280 --> 30:26.620
want to

30:26.620 --> 30:27.100
stay logged

30:27.100 --> 30:27.560
into all

30:27.560 --> 30:27.920
the Google

30:27.920 --> 30:28.360
services

30:28.360 --> 30:28.880
because I

30:28.880 --> 30:29.260
checked my

30:29.260 --> 30:29.880
Gmail once

30:29.880 --> 30:30.120
in the

30:30.120 --> 30:30.400
morning.

30:32.100 --> 30:32.920
That is

30:32.920 --> 30:33.400
underhanded

30:33.400 --> 30:33.660
to me.

30:33.720 --> 30:34.280
I do not

30:34.280 --> 30:34.680
like that

30:34.680 --> 30:35.120
tactic.

30:37.140 --> 30:37.580
That's

30:37.580 --> 30:37.880
actually very

30:37.880 --> 30:38.100
interesting.

30:38.300 --> 30:38.640
I was not

30:38.640 --> 30:39.680
aware Google

30:39.680 --> 30:40.040
was doing

30:40.040 --> 30:40.260
that.

30:40.400 --> 30:41.020
I'll look

30:41.020 --> 30:41.360
at it.

30:41.480 --> 30:42.500
But no,

30:42.660 --> 30:43.420
it is true.

30:43.420 --> 30:45.140
I agree.

30:45.300 --> 30:46.180
That certainly

30:46.180 --> 30:48.660
is a very

30:48.660 --> 30:51.960
discreet

30:51.960 --> 30:53.080
connecting of

30:53.080 --> 30:54.220
Gmail accounts

30:54.220 --> 30:54.620
to user

30:54.620 --> 30:55.000
searches.

30:56.740 --> 30:57.180
Anyway,

30:57.360 --> 30:57.960
we went

30:57.960 --> 30:58.460
into this

30:58.460 --> 30:58.800
on the

30:58.800 --> 30:59.200
last show

30:59.200 --> 30:59.960
a lot and

30:59.960 --> 31:00.300
we probably

31:00.300 --> 31:00.560
shouldn't

31:00.560 --> 31:01.000
rehash it

31:01.000 --> 31:01.260
again.

31:02.080 --> 31:02.680
I'm just

31:02.680 --> 31:03.160
worried that

31:03.160 --> 31:04.080
A, the

31:04.080 --> 31:04.720
potential is

31:04.720 --> 31:05.160
there because

31:05.160 --> 31:05.700
they have so

31:05.700 --> 31:06.160
much data.

31:06.220 --> 31:06.500
Like you

31:06.500 --> 31:06.800
said, they're

31:06.800 --> 31:07.300
just so

31:07.300 --> 31:07.620
big.

31:08.320 --> 31:08.880
You have a

31:08.880 --> 31:09.480
natural bit

31:09.480 --> 31:10.020
of paranoia

31:10.020 --> 31:10.380
that comes

31:10.380 --> 31:10.960
with that.

31:11.500 --> 31:11.760
And I'm

31:11.760 --> 31:12.400
generally, I'm

31:12.400 --> 31:12.820
not a real

31:12.820 --> 31:13.540
paranoid person

31:13.540 --> 31:14.080
and I haven't

31:14.080 --> 31:15.160
changed a

31:15.160 --> 31:15.660
whole lot the

31:15.660 --> 31:16.140
way I use

31:16.140 --> 31:16.380
Google.

31:16.460 --> 31:16.980
I do still

31:16.980 --> 31:17.520
use Google,

31:17.680 --> 31:18.120
so I'm not

31:18.120 --> 31:18.680
that big of

31:18.680 --> 31:19.120
a conspiracy.

31:19.280 --> 31:19.520
I'm just

31:19.520 --> 31:19.840
saying be

31:19.840 --> 31:20.120
careful.

31:20.800 --> 31:21.820
But my

31:21.820 --> 31:22.400
other big

31:22.400 --> 31:23.060
worry is I'm

31:23.060 --> 31:24.880
also, I

31:24.880 --> 31:25.500
guess I can

31:25.500 --> 31:26.220
say this

31:26.220 --> 31:26.700
safely, I'm

31:26.700 --> 31:27.380
anti-big

31:27.380 --> 31:28.040
business in

31:28.040 --> 31:28.300
general.

31:28.420 --> 31:28.820
I don't like

31:28.820 --> 31:29.440
monopolies,

31:29.540 --> 31:30.200
monopolistic

31:30.200 --> 31:30.720
companies.

31:31.720 --> 31:33.060
And when

31:33.060 --> 31:33.680
Google went

31:33.680 --> 31:35.260
public, that

31:35.260 --> 31:35.840
was a scary

31:35.840 --> 31:36.840
step for me

31:36.840 --> 31:37.820
because now

31:37.820 --> 31:38.440
you're answering

31:38.440 --> 31:39.340
to shareholders

31:39.340 --> 31:39.840
and people

31:39.840 --> 31:40.300
whose bottom

31:40.300 --> 31:41.060
line is money

31:41.060 --> 31:42.560
and they're

31:42.560 --> 31:42.900
going to start

31:42.900 --> 31:43.660
making decisions

31:43.660 --> 31:44.340
and when

31:44.340 --> 31:45.040
Bryn and

31:45.040 --> 31:46.160
whatever, when

31:46.160 --> 31:47.260
they say, no

31:47.260 --> 31:47.820
we're not doing

31:47.820 --> 31:48.440
that because it's

31:48.440 --> 31:48.960
evil, the

31:48.960 --> 31:49.560
shareholders are

31:49.560 --> 31:49.900
going to say,

31:50.040 --> 31:51.500
um, yeah, you're

31:51.500 --> 31:52.080
going to do it

31:52.080 --> 31:52.440
because it's

31:52.440 --> 31:52.800
going to make

31:52.800 --> 31:53.440
us money and

31:53.440 --> 31:54.020
we call the

31:54.020 --> 31:54.660
shots now.

31:54.880 --> 31:55.880
That potential

31:55.880 --> 31:57.140
scenario exists.

31:57.420 --> 31:57.820
It hasn't

31:57.820 --> 31:59.040
happened yet and

31:59.040 --> 32:00.000
you know, hopefully,

32:00.140 --> 32:00.780
I pray it never

32:00.780 --> 32:01.800
does happen, but

32:01.800 --> 32:02.580
the potential is

32:02.580 --> 32:03.280
there now and

32:03.280 --> 32:04.040
it wasn't there

32:04.040 --> 32:05.000
what, nine, ten

32:05.000 --> 32:05.720
months ago before

32:05.720 --> 32:06.400
they went public.

32:06.840 --> 32:07.240
That's true.

32:07.440 --> 32:07.860
So these are

32:07.860 --> 32:08.620
just all my

32:08.620 --> 32:09.340
things, I'm just

32:09.340 --> 32:09.900
pointing them

32:09.900 --> 32:10.240
out.

32:10.640 --> 32:12.140
Again, I guess

32:12.140 --> 32:13.220
maybe I am coming

32:13.220 --> 32:13.920
across as a big

32:13.920 --> 32:14.700
conspiracy nut

32:14.700 --> 32:15.300
against Google,

32:15.420 --> 32:16.440
but I still use

32:16.440 --> 32:16.680
Google.

32:16.820 --> 32:17.280
I'm just telling

32:17.280 --> 32:17.820
people to be

32:17.820 --> 32:18.700
careful what you

32:18.700 --> 32:19.640
use Google for

32:19.640 --> 32:21.080
and start mixing

32:21.080 --> 32:21.720
your stuff up.

32:21.840 --> 32:22.340
I'm searching

32:22.340 --> 32:23.240
with Google and

32:23.240 --> 32:24.620
Yahoo and MSN

32:24.620 --> 32:25.020
Search.

32:25.300 --> 32:25.960
I still like

32:25.960 --> 32:26.520
Clusty, the

32:26.520 --> 32:27.220
clustering search

32:27.220 --> 32:27.580
engine.

32:28.120 --> 32:28.880
So just mix your

32:28.880 --> 32:29.380
stuff up.

32:29.440 --> 32:30.160
That's pretty much

32:30.160 --> 32:30.820
all I'm ever

32:30.820 --> 32:31.420
trying to say

32:31.420 --> 32:31.940
about the whole

32:31.940 --> 32:32.220
thing.

32:33.380 --> 32:35.500
So, man, another

32:35.500 --> 32:36.500
tangent we got off

32:36.500 --> 32:36.780
on there.

32:36.780 --> 32:37.580
Let's jump back

32:37.580 --> 32:38.940
into another

32:38.940 --> 32:40.260
email here from

32:40.260 --> 32:44.320
Axquan.

32:45.940 --> 32:46.500
Axquan?

32:46.660 --> 32:47.220
Axquan?

32:47.660 --> 32:48.520
Axquan, I think.

32:48.660 --> 32:49.360
I think it's

32:49.360 --> 32:50.000
to rhyme with

32:50.000 --> 32:50.480
Axon.

32:51.540 --> 32:52.400
Ah, okay.

32:52.640 --> 32:52.980
All right.

32:53.540 --> 32:55.320
Axquan says,

32:55.420 --> 32:56.220
Hi, Stankdog.

32:56.220 --> 32:57.600
First of all, I'd

32:57.600 --> 32:58.460
like to thank you

32:58.460 --> 32:58.920
for the great

32:58.920 --> 32:59.280
show.

32:59.840 --> 33:00.080
I've been

33:00.080 --> 33:00.600
listening to

33:00.600 --> 33:01.340
Binary Revolution

33:01.340 --> 33:02.160
Radio for almost

33:02.160 --> 33:03.040
a year now, but

33:03.040 --> 33:03.740
not until I had

33:03.740 --> 33:04.460
got to episode

33:04.460 --> 33:05.740
58 with

33:05.740 --> 33:06.800
Decius, a

33:06.800 --> 33:07.660
mutual friend of

33:07.660 --> 33:09.060
ours, talking

33:09.060 --> 33:10.220
about memes.

33:10.380 --> 33:10.860
I had gotten

33:10.860 --> 33:11.480
the courage to

33:11.480 --> 33:12.060
send a letter

33:12.060 --> 33:12.500
to you.

33:12.920 --> 33:13.460
You've got all

33:13.460 --> 33:14.040
this great stuff

33:14.040 --> 33:14.480
on your show,

33:14.540 --> 33:14.900
and I just

33:14.900 --> 33:15.300
didn't have

33:15.300 --> 33:16.120
anything interesting

33:16.120 --> 33:16.940
to say to you.

33:16.980 --> 33:17.360
Well, I'm sure

33:17.360 --> 33:18.180
that's not true,

33:18.380 --> 33:20.260
but back to the

33:20.260 --> 33:20.700
main topic.

33:20.700 --> 33:21.500
I found Decius'

33:21.640 --> 33:22.260
meme talk

33:22.260 --> 33:23.440
extremely interesting.

33:24.320 --> 33:24.940
It's just

33:24.940 --> 33:25.680
fascinating to

33:25.680 --> 33:26.300
observe how a

33:26.300 --> 33:27.040
hacker can relate

33:27.040 --> 33:27.600
to the grounds

33:27.600 --> 33:28.680
of life and

33:28.680 --> 33:29.260
make something

33:29.260 --> 33:30.100
useful of it.

33:31.480 --> 33:32.300
Well, yeah, as a

33:32.300 --> 33:33.040
side note, gee,

33:33.220 --> 33:33.860
hackers are normal

33:33.860 --> 33:34.460
people, and we're

33:34.460 --> 33:35.180
smart, and we know

33:35.180 --> 33:35.880
other things besides

33:35.880 --> 33:36.220
computers.

33:36.460 --> 33:37.300
Big surprise.

33:38.740 --> 33:39.720
Anyway, whilst I

33:39.720 --> 33:40.260
was listening to

33:40.260 --> 33:40.720
the beginning of

33:40.720 --> 33:41.600
the show, oh,

33:41.620 --> 33:42.120
did you see that?

33:42.160 --> 33:42.980
He used whilst.

33:44.180 --> 33:45.520
W-H-I-L-S-T.

33:45.700 --> 33:46.560
Whilst I was

33:46.560 --> 33:46.780
listening.

33:46.780 --> 33:47.220
Oh, that's nice.

33:47.340 --> 33:47.980
That is nice.

33:48.580 --> 33:49.220
Man, we have

33:49.220 --> 33:50.320
some very eloquent

33:50.320 --> 33:50.680
listeners.

33:50.700 --> 33:51.280
on this show.

33:51.380 --> 33:51.860
Man, I'm

33:51.860 --> 33:52.280
impressed.

33:53.460 --> 33:54.200
Whilst I was

33:54.200 --> 33:54.820
listening to the

33:54.820 --> 33:55.340
beginning of the

33:55.340 --> 33:56.000
show, I didn't

33:56.000 --> 33:56.580
know a first

33:56.580 --> 33:57.320
thing about

33:57.320 --> 33:58.180
memes, but at

33:58.180 --> 33:58.760
the end, I've

33:58.760 --> 33:59.160
had a whole

33:59.160 --> 33:59.500
bunch of

33:59.500 --> 34:00.060
questions and

34:00.060 --> 34:01.260
ideas spinning

34:01.260 --> 34:02.040
through my

34:02.040 --> 34:02.420
head.

34:02.980 --> 34:03.600
I really would

34:03.600 --> 34:05.380
like you to

34:05.380 --> 34:06.200
ask this question

34:06.200 --> 34:06.780
on the air so

34:06.780 --> 34:07.460
everyone could

34:07.460 --> 34:08.080
learn more

34:08.080 --> 34:08.620
about it.

34:09.080 --> 34:09.780
Okay, here we

34:09.780 --> 34:10.220
go with this.

34:11.560 --> 34:12.020
And you know

34:12.020 --> 34:12.180
what?

34:12.220 --> 34:12.640
I'm going to

34:12.640 --> 34:13.140
turn this over

34:13.140 --> 34:13.640
to you because

34:13.640 --> 34:14.080
I think you

34:14.080 --> 34:14.480
know a lot

34:14.480 --> 34:14.880
more about

34:14.880 --> 34:15.400
this than I

34:15.400 --> 34:15.800
do because

34:15.800 --> 34:16.440
frankly, I

34:16.440 --> 34:17.020
learned most

34:17.020 --> 34:17.460
of it from

34:17.460 --> 34:18.120
Decius, and

34:18.120 --> 34:18.500
I think you

34:18.500 --> 34:18.820
probably have

34:18.820 --> 34:19.340
more experience.

34:19.440 --> 34:19.740
So let's

34:19.740 --> 34:19.900
see.

34:20.220 --> 34:21.100
First question,

34:21.460 --> 34:21.840
okay, my

34:21.840 --> 34:22.540
first question

34:22.540 --> 34:23.980
is, how does

34:23.980 --> 34:24.860
a mime spread?

34:25.460 --> 34:26.060
I've understood

34:26.060 --> 34:26.820
the knock-knock

34:26.820 --> 34:28.020
jokes comparison,

34:28.380 --> 34:29.020
but I wonder

34:29.020 --> 34:29.620
how does it

34:29.620 --> 34:30.300
spread on a

34:30.300 --> 34:31.080
large scale?

34:31.260 --> 34:32.020
Imagine this.

34:32.420 --> 34:33.000
There's a drop

34:33.000 --> 34:33.840
of water falling

34:33.840 --> 34:34.780
onto a still

34:34.780 --> 34:35.320
lake.

34:35.860 --> 34:36.640
This drop is

34:36.640 --> 34:37.260
an information

34:37.260 --> 34:37.980
or a meme,

34:38.240 --> 34:38.820
and while it

34:38.820 --> 34:39.420
hits the water,

34:39.520 --> 34:39.840
the wave

34:39.840 --> 34:40.780
progression starts.

34:41.320 --> 34:41.820
And does the

34:41.820 --> 34:42.420
meme spreading

34:42.420 --> 34:42.820
through the

34:42.820 --> 34:44.320
society act like

34:44.320 --> 34:45.060
this wave?

34:45.060 --> 34:46.240
does it go

34:46.240 --> 34:47.120
through the

34:47.120 --> 34:47.600
whole lake

34:47.600 --> 34:47.940
and then

34:47.940 --> 34:48.320
disappear,

34:48.580 --> 34:49.020
or does it

34:49.020 --> 34:49.700
bounce on the

34:49.700 --> 34:50.260
border and

34:50.260 --> 34:51.000
then get back

34:51.000 --> 34:51.540
to the

34:51.540 --> 34:51.980
sender?

34:52.480 --> 34:53.120
Or maybe it

34:53.120 --> 34:53.700
doesn't really

34:53.700 --> 34:54.760
reach to that

34:54.760 --> 34:55.460
point because

34:55.460 --> 34:56.620
humanity is so

34:56.620 --> 34:57.060
big.

34:59.540 --> 35:00.220
Do you want to

35:00.220 --> 35:00.480
stop?

35:00.620 --> 35:01.180
Okay, yeah,

35:01.280 --> 35:01.820
I'll take this.

35:02.680 --> 35:06.320
Okay, I would

35:06.320 --> 35:07.540
say first off

35:07.540 --> 35:08.860
that I think

35:08.860 --> 35:09.780
the water

35:09.780 --> 35:10.680
analogy is not

35:10.680 --> 35:11.220
very good.

35:11.220 --> 35:13.200
I mean, I

35:13.200 --> 35:13.800
guess it works

35:13.800 --> 35:14.460
okay, but I

35:14.460 --> 35:14.760
wouldn't recommend

35:14.760 --> 35:15.240
thinking that

35:15.240 --> 35:15.420
way.

35:16.240 --> 35:18.880
I think the

35:18.880 --> 35:19.520
really important

35:19.520 --> 35:20.500
thing to focus

35:20.500 --> 35:21.560
on is the

35:21.560 --> 35:22.480
connection between

35:22.480 --> 35:23.220
genes and

35:23.220 --> 35:24.220
memes, like the

35:24.220 --> 35:25.240
name very

35:25.240 --> 35:26.020
obviously implies

35:26.020 --> 35:26.360
this.

35:27.360 --> 35:27.860
Of interest,

35:27.980 --> 35:28.080
if you're

35:28.080 --> 35:28.500
interested in

35:28.500 --> 35:28.860
more about

35:28.860 --> 35:29.540
memes, this

35:29.540 --> 35:30.120
concept was

35:30.120 --> 35:31.280
first introduced

35:31.280 --> 35:32.600
in Richard Dawkins,

35:32.660 --> 35:33.440
the selfish gene,

35:33.880 --> 35:35.400
and then it got

35:35.400 --> 35:36.660
really big, and

35:36.660 --> 35:38.440
Susan Blackmore's

35:38.440 --> 35:38.780
the meme

35:38.780 --> 35:39.140
machine.

35:39.140 --> 35:42.040
But the

35:42.040 --> 35:42.440
main thing that

35:42.440 --> 35:42.760
makes memes

35:42.760 --> 35:43.740
interesting is

35:43.740 --> 35:44.680
that it was

35:44.680 --> 35:46.740
the first place

35:46.740 --> 35:47.960
where the idea

35:47.960 --> 35:50.020
of evolution was

35:50.020 --> 35:51.420
popularized outside

35:51.420 --> 35:52.920
the context of

35:52.920 --> 35:53.620
genes.

35:55.120 --> 35:56.120
And basically

35:56.120 --> 35:58.760
evolution is more

35:58.760 --> 35:59.160
of a general

35:59.160 --> 35:59.980
purpose algorithm

35:59.980 --> 36:01.120
and can be

36:01.120 --> 36:01.980
applied basically

36:01.980 --> 36:02.360
anywhere.

36:03.200 --> 36:03.700
The evolution

36:03.700 --> 36:05.120
algorithm basically

36:05.120 --> 36:06.120
has three basic

36:06.120 --> 36:06.460
parts.

36:06.800 --> 36:07.220
It doesn't really

36:07.220 --> 36:07.820
matter in what

36:07.820 --> 36:08.720
context you have

36:08.720 --> 36:09.000
these.

36:09.140 --> 36:09.720
You're always

36:09.720 --> 36:10.060
going to get

36:10.060 --> 36:10.920
some kind of

36:10.920 --> 36:11.780
evolutionary force.

36:12.420 --> 36:14.020
You can write

36:14.020 --> 36:14.460
these down.

36:14.780 --> 36:15.340
Your three basic

36:15.340 --> 36:16.040
parts of

36:16.040 --> 36:17.140
evolution are

36:17.140 --> 36:17.660
number one,

36:17.740 --> 36:18.460
variation in

36:18.460 --> 36:19.020
the initial

36:19.020 --> 36:20.640
population, which

36:20.640 --> 36:21.160
in this case

36:21.160 --> 36:21.700
would just be

36:21.700 --> 36:23.500
the myriad of

36:23.500 --> 36:24.660
ideas out there

36:24.660 --> 36:25.140
in the world.

36:25.840 --> 36:27.140
Two, selection.

36:27.560 --> 36:28.220
So I guess in

36:28.220 --> 36:28.620
this case would

36:28.620 --> 36:29.040
be what you

36:29.040 --> 36:29.680
find believable.

36:30.400 --> 36:31.460
And then three,

36:31.840 --> 36:33.240
heredity and

36:33.240 --> 36:34.180
reproduction, in

36:34.180 --> 36:34.560
which case you

36:34.560 --> 36:35.000
just tell it to

36:35.000 --> 36:35.500
someone else.

36:36.280 --> 36:37.060
That's basically

36:37.060 --> 36:39.260
just means in a

36:39.260 --> 36:39.860
nutshell right

36:39.860 --> 36:40.120
there.

36:40.720 --> 36:42.220
Like there's

36:42.220 --> 36:43.360
lots of ideas,

36:43.680 --> 36:44.260
you have some

36:44.260 --> 36:44.500
of them that

36:44.500 --> 36:45.540
you like, and

36:45.540 --> 36:46.240
you say, okay,

36:46.500 --> 36:47.560
I'm selecting for

36:47.560 --> 36:48.480
these ideas and

36:48.480 --> 36:48.840
I'm going to go

36:48.840 --> 36:49.440
tell them to my

36:49.440 --> 36:50.160
friends and post

36:50.160 --> 36:50.520
them on my

36:50.520 --> 36:50.840
blog.

36:51.460 --> 36:53.340
And then your

36:53.340 --> 36:54.940
friends may repeat

36:54.940 --> 36:55.840
the process and

36:55.840 --> 36:57.120
thus some ideas

36:57.120 --> 36:58.440
get spread more

36:58.440 --> 36:58.920
than others.

36:58.920 --> 37:01.500
And they can go

37:01.500 --> 37:01.980
to war and they

37:01.980 --> 37:02.500
can dominate with

37:02.500 --> 37:02.920
each other.

37:04.000 --> 37:04.580
Stank, did that

37:04.580 --> 37:05.140
make any sense?

37:05.400 --> 37:06.080
Oh, absolutely.

37:06.280 --> 37:06.860
I think a very

37:06.860 --> 37:08.200
good example of

37:08.200 --> 37:08.340
that.

37:08.520 --> 37:09.360
And let me go

37:09.360 --> 37:11.120
ahead and let's

37:11.120 --> 37:11.860
take his, he has

37:11.860 --> 37:12.560
a second question

37:12.560 --> 37:13.180
here that I think

37:13.180 --> 37:13.780
is a good follow

37:13.780 --> 37:14.480
up to that.

37:15.020 --> 37:15.520
And he says,

37:15.580 --> 37:16.300
my second thought

37:16.300 --> 37:17.540
was what impact

37:17.540 --> 37:18.420
it has on the

37:18.420 --> 37:19.280
personality of

37:19.280 --> 37:20.460
someone's infected.

37:21.160 --> 37:21.880
Like with this

37:21.880 --> 37:22.680
McDonald's song,

37:22.740 --> 37:23.260
do we go to the

37:23.260 --> 37:23.960
McDonald's restaurant

37:23.960 --> 37:24.740
because the meme

37:24.740 --> 37:25.320
altered our

37:25.320 --> 37:26.060
consciousness in

37:26.060 --> 37:26.580
some way?

37:27.080 --> 37:27.680
Or do we do

37:27.680 --> 37:28.360
that because we

37:28.360 --> 37:28.980
were already

37:28.980 --> 37:30.060
familiar with

37:30.060 --> 37:30.620
the brand?

37:33.200 --> 37:35.200
I would not

37:35.200 --> 37:35.540
use the word

37:35.540 --> 37:35.940
infected.

37:36.160 --> 37:36.640
Like it implies

37:36.640 --> 37:37.780
it's like a bad

37:37.780 --> 37:38.080
thing.

37:38.620 --> 37:39.340
Like you can

37:39.340 --> 37:40.520
consider, like

37:40.520 --> 37:40.780
you can think

37:40.780 --> 37:41.460
of a meme as

37:41.460 --> 37:41.780
like many

37:41.780 --> 37:42.560
beneficial things.

37:42.640 --> 37:43.000
But you can

37:43.000 --> 37:44.620
think of people's

37:44.620 --> 37:45.000
scientific

37:45.000 --> 37:45.800
understanding of

37:45.800 --> 37:46.420
the world as

37:46.420 --> 37:46.760
a meme.

37:47.420 --> 37:47.840
So like we

37:47.840 --> 37:48.320
can think of

37:48.320 --> 37:49.760
actually Newtonian

37:49.760 --> 37:50.420
mechanics is a

37:50.420 --> 37:50.980
great example.

37:51.720 --> 37:52.240
Newtonian

37:52.240 --> 37:53.040
mechanics was,

37:53.900 --> 37:54.840
there were many

37:54.840 --> 37:55.660
ideas out there

37:55.660 --> 37:56.320
for explaining

37:56.320 --> 37:57.720
like the movements

37:57.720 --> 37:58.300
of plants,

37:58.360 --> 37:58.720
and stuff.

38:00.520 --> 38:01.420
Newton selected

38:01.420 --> 38:01.960
one that he

38:01.960 --> 38:02.300
liked.

38:03.200 --> 38:04.240
In this particular

38:04.240 --> 38:04.760
case, he had

38:04.760 --> 38:05.280
some good math

38:05.280 --> 38:05.860
to back it up.

38:06.620 --> 38:09.180
And then he

38:09.180 --> 38:09.740
published it to

38:09.740 --> 38:10.220
other scientists.

38:10.320 --> 38:10.720
Other scientists

38:10.720 --> 38:11.220
said, oh, look,

38:11.240 --> 38:11.780
this is great.

38:12.320 --> 38:13.540
And now it's in

38:13.540 --> 38:13.960
the schools.

38:14.360 --> 38:15.600
And now this

38:15.600 --> 38:18.560
idea is reproducing

38:18.560 --> 38:18.980
itself.

38:20.980 --> 38:21.800
I mean, there

38:21.800 --> 38:23.460
are very many

38:23.460 --> 38:24.660
helpful ideas that

38:24.660 --> 38:25.300
spread through this

38:25.300 --> 38:25.720
exact same

38:25.720 --> 38:26.120
mechanism.

38:26.620 --> 38:26.980
To say

38:26.980 --> 38:28.160
infected implies

38:28.160 --> 38:28.760
it's bad, which

38:28.760 --> 38:29.140
is in a way a

38:29.140 --> 38:29.620
good idea.

38:31.760 --> 38:32.940
Well, then, is

38:32.940 --> 38:34.680
that, all right,

38:34.740 --> 38:35.740
so would I be,

38:36.340 --> 38:36.840
would this be

38:36.840 --> 38:37.580
accurate to say

38:37.580 --> 38:38.160
that maybe

38:38.160 --> 38:41.240
sometimes things

38:41.240 --> 38:41.840
like this get

38:41.840 --> 38:42.840
overanalyzed?

38:42.840 --> 38:43.620
Can it be

38:43.620 --> 38:44.060
simplified?

38:44.560 --> 38:45.360
I mean, what

38:45.360 --> 38:45.760
you're saying

38:45.760 --> 38:46.520
sounds very

38:46.520 --> 38:47.940
clear, quite

38:47.940 --> 38:48.260
honestly.

38:48.400 --> 38:49.000
It sounds very

38:49.000 --> 38:49.820
clear and very

38:49.820 --> 38:50.320
straightforward.

38:51.100 --> 38:51.980
Is it, do you

38:51.980 --> 38:52.300
think maybe

38:52.300 --> 38:53.160
sometimes people

38:53.160 --> 38:53.660
are trying to

38:53.660 --> 38:54.620
overanalyze

38:54.620 --> 38:55.440
memetics and

38:55.440 --> 38:55.840
memes in

38:55.840 --> 38:56.580
general, talking

38:56.580 --> 38:57.580
about whether

38:57.580 --> 38:58.000
it gets

38:58.000 --> 38:58.640
polluted and

38:58.640 --> 39:00.020
why doesn't it

39:00.020 --> 39:00.760
reach here and

39:00.760 --> 39:01.900
how do the, you

39:01.900 --> 39:02.520
mentioned earlier

39:02.520 --> 39:03.340
about how they

39:03.340 --> 39:04.240
can actually have

39:04.240 --> 39:05.200
like a survival

39:05.200 --> 39:06.040
fight when one

39:06.040 --> 39:06.800
meme collides with

39:06.800 --> 39:07.540
another, et cetera,

39:07.640 --> 39:07.980
et cetera.

39:08.640 --> 39:09.200
Yeah, like

39:09.200 --> 39:11.020
religious wars

39:11.020 --> 39:11.580
are a great

39:11.580 --> 39:12.300
example of this.

39:14.220 --> 39:15.160
I mean, I

39:15.160 --> 39:15.680
can go into

39:15.680 --> 39:16.280
more detail about

39:16.280 --> 39:16.760
that, but I

39:16.760 --> 39:17.740
mean, basically

39:17.740 --> 39:18.880
you have one

39:18.880 --> 39:21.000
self-reproducing

39:21.000 --> 39:21.400
meme versus

39:21.400 --> 39:21.660
another.

39:22.080 --> 39:22.840
Like, religion

39:22.840 --> 39:24.000
A says, accept

39:24.000 --> 39:24.780
religion A or

39:24.780 --> 39:25.660
die, religion B

39:25.660 --> 39:26.140
says, accept

39:26.140 --> 39:26.840
religion B or

39:26.840 --> 39:28.840
die, and these

39:28.840 --> 39:30.100
two go at each

39:30.100 --> 39:30.300
other.

39:30.740 --> 39:31.520
And so there's

39:31.520 --> 39:31.960
some person

39:31.960 --> 39:32.480
saying, oh,

39:32.720 --> 39:33.300
should I choose

39:33.300 --> 39:34.240
religion A or

39:34.240 --> 39:34.840
religion B?

39:35.880 --> 39:36.360
Right.

39:36.480 --> 39:36.760
Well, what

39:36.760 --> 39:37.560
about, so,

39:37.560 --> 39:38.540
if we were to

39:38.540 --> 39:39.140
take this to an

39:39.140 --> 39:40.020
extreme, is

39:40.020 --> 39:40.720
there come a

39:40.720 --> 39:41.860
point, does

39:41.860 --> 39:42.520
there come some

39:42.520 --> 39:43.580
point in the,

39:44.340 --> 39:45.360
I don't know,

39:45.460 --> 39:46.400
meme war, for

39:46.400 --> 39:47.040
lack of a better

39:47.040 --> 39:48.500
word, where at

39:48.500 --> 39:49.160
the end of time

39:49.160 --> 39:50.120
there will be one

39:50.120 --> 39:50.740
meme that

39:50.740 --> 39:51.700
dominated all

39:51.700 --> 39:52.460
others and we're

39:52.460 --> 39:53.260
all like mindless.

39:53.260 --> 39:53.800
One meme to

39:53.800 --> 39:54.240
rule them all?

39:54.300 --> 39:54.960
Exactly, we're

39:54.960 --> 39:55.540
all mindless

39:55.540 --> 39:56.580
drones being

39:56.580 --> 39:57.420
brainwashed to

39:57.420 --> 39:57.960
the point where

39:57.960 --> 39:58.160
we...

39:58.160 --> 39:59.800
Probably not

39:59.800 --> 40:00.300
because...

40:00.300 --> 40:00.600
By going

40:00.600 --> 40:01.320
science fiction

40:01.320 --> 40:01.580
right there.

40:01.600 --> 40:02.340
Because very

40:02.340 --> 40:03.960
often in the

40:03.960 --> 40:05.380
heredity, actually

40:05.380 --> 40:06.460
I probably should

40:06.460 --> 40:07.540
have said this,

40:07.560 --> 40:08.860
in the heredity

40:08.860 --> 40:09.400
there is an

40:09.400 --> 40:11.500
assumed mutation

40:11.500 --> 40:12.100
and variation.

40:12.800 --> 40:13.600
So, like, for

40:13.600 --> 40:14.500
example, if you

40:14.500 --> 40:15.340
tell the idea to

40:15.340 --> 40:16.760
someone else, they

40:16.760 --> 40:17.520
might get, like, a

40:17.520 --> 40:18.440
few parts wrong or

40:18.440 --> 40:19.320
they might expand on

40:19.320 --> 40:20.240
it a little bit or

40:20.240 --> 40:21.260
they might, like,

40:21.320 --> 40:22.040
understand it in a

40:22.040 --> 40:22.840
different context.

40:23.520 --> 40:24.340
So, thus, the

40:24.340 --> 40:25.540
ideas, they're

40:25.540 --> 40:27.040
changing ever so

40:27.040 --> 40:28.100
slightly when they

40:28.100 --> 40:28.420
reproduce.

40:29.120 --> 40:30.320
So, the idea that

40:30.320 --> 40:31.540
it will ever reach a

40:31.540 --> 40:32.440
completely homogeneous

40:32.440 --> 40:33.760
steady state is

40:33.760 --> 40:36.360
basically impossible.

40:38.700 --> 40:39.560
Very, very

40:39.560 --> 40:40.300
interesting stuff.

40:41.040 --> 40:41.700
I wish we

40:41.700 --> 40:42.340
actually had more

40:42.340 --> 40:42.600
time.

40:42.680 --> 40:43.160
Maybe we should do

40:43.160 --> 40:44.080
another show dedicated

40:44.080 --> 40:44.780
to memes in the

40:44.780 --> 40:45.100
future.

40:46.140 --> 40:46.960
We can have me and

40:46.960 --> 40:47.700
Death is on here and

40:47.700 --> 40:49.220
we can chat about it.

40:49.320 --> 40:49.900
Oh, that would be

40:49.900 --> 40:50.440
phenomenal.

40:50.620 --> 40:51.060
That would be a

40:51.060 --> 40:51.540
great show.

40:52.140 --> 40:53.240
Actually, yeah, we'll

40:53.240 --> 40:54.060
talk about that later,

40:54.120 --> 40:54.400
actually.

40:55.040 --> 40:55.920
Anyway, let me finish

40:55.920 --> 40:56.780
out his email here.

40:57.700 --> 40:58.620
Let's see, where was I?

40:58.620 --> 40:59.560
Like I said before, I

40:59.560 --> 41:00.420
found this topic very

41:00.420 --> 41:01.220
interesting and

41:01.220 --> 41:02.240
opposite to my first

41:02.240 --> 41:03.020
impression, very

41:03.020 --> 41:04.080
related to hacking.

41:04.260 --> 41:04.640
I'll definitely

41:04.640 --> 41:05.720
research on that in

41:05.720 --> 41:06.220
the future.

41:07.100 --> 41:07.980
But now I would like

41:07.980 --> 41:09.380
to talk on some, I

41:09.380 --> 41:10.360
would like to touch on

41:10.360 --> 41:11.020
something different.

41:11.480 --> 41:12.180
I think that what you

41:12.180 --> 41:13.180
don't realize is that

41:13.180 --> 41:13.920
your show has more

41:13.920 --> 41:15.120
value than it seems.

41:15.740 --> 41:16.780
Everyone says that

41:16.780 --> 41:17.540
it's funny and

41:17.540 --> 41:18.600
informative, and it

41:18.600 --> 41:19.900
is, but it also

41:19.900 --> 41:21.960
helps polishing my

41:21.960 --> 41:22.360
English.

41:22.680 --> 41:26.220
I'm from Poland, and I

41:26.220 --> 41:26.920
don't really have an

41:26.920 --> 41:27.740
opportunity to hear

41:27.740 --> 41:29.000
English in day-to-day

41:29.000 --> 41:29.440
use.

41:29.740 --> 41:30.760
Sure, I can listen to

41:30.760 --> 41:32.220
CNN or the BBC, but

41:32.220 --> 41:33.100
it's not the same.

41:33.500 --> 41:34.320
Think of that while

41:34.320 --> 41:35.760
you are cursing on the

41:35.760 --> 41:36.100
air.

41:36.680 --> 41:37.720
Just think about it.

41:37.720 --> 41:38.360
Where else are you

41:38.360 --> 41:39.120
going to hear such a

41:39.120 --> 41:40.080
wonderful English word

41:40.080 --> 41:40.660
like whilst?

41:41.000 --> 41:41.980
Well, whilst is good

41:41.980 --> 41:42.980
stuff, but see, I mix

41:42.980 --> 41:43.880
that in with all my

41:43.880 --> 41:44.820
foul language and

41:44.820 --> 41:45.780
vulgarity that slips

41:45.780 --> 41:46.740
out sometimes when I

41:46.740 --> 41:47.640
get on a rant about

41:47.640 --> 41:48.100
something.

41:49.000 --> 41:50.320
You are propagating

41:50.320 --> 41:51.140
whilst to all of

41:51.140 --> 41:51.380
Poland.

41:51.520 --> 41:52.900
I am spreading the

41:52.900 --> 41:54.340
vulgarity meme to

41:54.340 --> 41:54.920
other countries.

41:55.040 --> 41:55.800
That's my job here.

41:55.880 --> 41:56.480
Thank you very much.

41:56.560 --> 41:56.880
God bless.

41:56.960 --> 41:57.260
Good night.

41:57.480 --> 41:58.180
My work is done.

41:59.160 --> 41:59.840
Yeah, like I don't

41:59.840 --> 42:00.600
have enough pressure

42:00.600 --> 42:01.600
of trying to make a

42:01.600 --> 42:02.380
funny show and a

42:02.380 --> 42:04.000
technical-based show

42:04.000 --> 42:05.760
and teaching hacking

42:05.760 --> 42:06.580
and stuff like that.

42:07.200 --> 42:08.800
I am teaching the

42:08.800 --> 42:09.660
world how to cuss

42:09.660 --> 42:10.960
together in harmony

42:10.960 --> 42:14.660
and it's kind of sad

42:14.660 --> 42:15.320
really when you sit

42:15.320 --> 42:16.120
back and think of it.

42:17.120 --> 42:18.180
I'm contributing to

42:18.180 --> 42:19.320
the downfall of society.

42:19.880 --> 42:20.740
That's all I'm doing

42:20.740 --> 42:21.320
here on the show.

42:22.820 --> 42:23.520
Oh, and he has one

42:23.520 --> 42:24.420
last line here that I

42:24.420 --> 42:25.020
think you might

42:25.020 --> 42:26.000
appreciate too.

42:26.080 --> 42:26.740
It says, I've always

42:26.740 --> 42:27.320
wanted to say

42:27.320 --> 42:27.920
something about

42:27.920 --> 42:29.440
Acidus in episode

42:29.440 --> 42:30.820
57, but I think I'll

42:30.820 --> 42:31.880
save that for another

42:31.880 --> 42:32.240
time.

42:32.300 --> 42:33.220
That's too bad because

42:33.220 --> 42:35.120
I know that's your

42:35.120 --> 42:35.960
buddy there, Acidus.

42:35.960 --> 42:36.640
You and him have a

42:36.640 --> 42:38.340
little history together.

42:38.340 --> 42:38.860
We have some history

42:38.860 --> 42:39.200
together.

42:39.320 --> 42:40.380
Yep, some history

42:40.380 --> 42:40.980
together that we

42:40.980 --> 42:41.920
probably shouldn't or

42:41.920 --> 42:42.700
won't talk about

42:42.700 --> 42:43.080
tonight.

42:44.360 --> 42:46.020
So, yeah, that was

42:46.020 --> 42:47.200
very good stuff.

42:47.340 --> 42:48.980
Let's move on.

42:49.060 --> 42:49.600
We're falling behind

42:49.600 --> 42:50.320
an email like we

42:50.320 --> 42:51.700
always do on the show.

42:51.760 --> 42:53.200
We have so many good

42:53.200 --> 42:53.980
listeners and good

42:53.980 --> 42:54.400
emails.

42:54.400 --> 42:55.880
Let's see, we have

42:55.880 --> 42:56.400
two more here.

42:56.460 --> 42:57.620
Let's do Old School

42:57.620 --> 42:58.940
writes in and says,

42:59.020 --> 43:00.400
Stank, after listening

43:00.400 --> 43:01.500
to episode 88 and

43:01.500 --> 43:02.440
thinking back to when

43:02.440 --> 43:03.120
you first started

43:03.120 --> 43:04.800
talking about offering

43:04.800 --> 43:06.700
AUG files, I decided

43:06.700 --> 43:07.580
to do my part.

43:07.720 --> 43:08.800
I have converted all

43:08.800 --> 43:09.660
Binary Revolution

43:09.660 --> 43:11.800
radio files to AUG as

43:11.800 --> 43:12.980
well as added the

43:12.980 --> 43:14.140
episode number to the

43:14.140 --> 43:15.160
IDV tag.

43:15.680 --> 43:16.920
I have uploaded the

43:16.920 --> 43:17.980
first year to my

43:17.980 --> 43:21.840
server, www.remote

43:21.840 --> 43:23.840
exploitation.com.

43:23.840 --> 43:24.660
That's remote

43:24.660 --> 43:26.580
exploitation, all one

43:26.580 --> 43:28.140
word, .com.

43:28.200 --> 43:29.380
Take a listen and tell

43:29.380 --> 43:30.100
me if you would like

43:30.100 --> 43:31.420
me to upload the

43:31.420 --> 43:31.880
rest.

43:32.740 --> 43:33.940
And I did contact

43:33.940 --> 43:35.280
Old School and told

43:35.280 --> 43:36.100
him, by all means,

43:36.200 --> 43:36.920
go ahead and upload

43:36.920 --> 43:37.660
the rest of them.

43:38.260 --> 43:40.160
And thank you for

43:40.160 --> 43:40.780
doing this, Old

43:40.780 --> 43:40.960
School.

43:41.060 --> 43:42.000
But also, I had some

43:42.000 --> 43:42.880
other people volunteer

43:42.880 --> 43:43.820
to do this as well.

43:44.860 --> 43:47.060
So, I finally, and I

43:47.060 --> 43:47.840
kept putting it off,

43:47.920 --> 43:48.940
telling everyone, you

43:48.940 --> 43:49.820
know, the whole

43:49.820 --> 43:51.800
lossy format to lossy

43:51.800 --> 43:53.000
format argument of,

43:53.360 --> 43:54.120
you know, you've got

43:54.120 --> 43:55.140
an mp3 file that's

43:55.140 --> 43:55.940
compressed and has

43:55.940 --> 43:56.880
lost a few bits, and

43:56.880 --> 43:57.600
when you convert it to

43:57.600 --> 43:58.580
another lossy format

43:58.580 --> 44:00.360
like AUG, then it's

44:00.360 --> 44:01.020
going to get even

44:01.020 --> 44:01.500
worse.

44:02.360 --> 44:04.020
But, so all this time,

44:04.080 --> 44:05.000
my excuse and what I've

44:05.000 --> 44:06.060
been saying was that I

44:06.060 --> 44:06.760
would rather just

44:06.760 --> 44:08.720
remaster it from my

44:08.720 --> 44:09.800
high quality master

44:09.800 --> 44:10.720
files, my original

44:10.720 --> 44:11.360
DAT files and

44:11.360 --> 44:11.640
everything.

44:12.640 --> 44:14.320
But, I have to accept,

44:14.460 --> 44:15.140
just like the other

44:15.140 --> 44:16.160
thing I accepted, that I

44:16.160 --> 44:17.020
won't have the time to

44:17.020 --> 44:18.280
make an asterisk box, I

44:18.280 --> 44:19.400
have not had the time

44:19.400 --> 44:20.300
to do this conversion

44:20.300 --> 44:20.620
either.

44:20.840 --> 44:23.320
So, since old school

44:23.320 --> 44:24.600
already did it, I'm

44:24.600 --> 44:26.860
saying, go ahead, the

44:26.860 --> 44:28.020
bottom line is this is

44:28.020 --> 44:31.260
talk radio, which is

44:31.260 --> 44:32.460
generally very low

44:32.460 --> 44:33.840
quality anyway, and

44:33.840 --> 44:34.960
insert your own low

44:34.960 --> 44:36.840
quality joke there about

44:36.840 --> 44:38.740
the show, but generally

44:38.740 --> 44:40.040
we recorded a very low

44:40.040 --> 44:41.060
bit rate, is probably a

44:41.060 --> 44:42.880
better term to use, and

44:42.880 --> 44:45.640
whatever could possibly

44:45.640 --> 44:47.120
be lost in that lossy to

44:47.120 --> 44:48.040
lossy conversion is

44:48.040 --> 44:49.160
probably not that

44:49.160 --> 44:49.900
noticeable, quite

44:49.900 --> 44:50.320
honestly.

44:50.820 --> 44:51.500
Yes, it's going to

44:51.500 --> 44:52.560
happen, it's inevitable,

44:52.740 --> 44:53.600
they're two different

44:53.600 --> 44:55.440
algorithms, so there's

44:55.440 --> 44:56.460
going to be some loss,

44:56.880 --> 44:57.740
but you know what, I

44:57.740 --> 44:59.000
bet you people might not

44:59.000 --> 44:59.800
be able to notice the

44:59.800 --> 45:00.020
difference.

45:00.120 --> 45:01.220
Maybe in the opening and

45:01.220 --> 45:02.200
closing music you might

45:02.200 --> 45:03.720
notice it, but frankly,

45:03.900 --> 45:04.700
I've been putting it off

45:04.700 --> 45:06.980
so long that I think

45:06.980 --> 45:08.260
that this is probably the

45:08.260 --> 45:09.120
way to go, and if you

45:09.120 --> 45:09.740
don't know what I mean

45:09.740 --> 45:10.720
by lossy to lossy

45:10.720 --> 45:12.000
conversion, you can go

45:12.000 --> 45:13.740
back to episode 59, I

45:13.740 --> 45:14.480
actually looked that up

45:14.480 --> 45:16.280
with Jason Scott, was my

45:16.280 --> 45:17.080
co-host on the show, and

45:17.080 --> 45:18.160
we talked about audio

45:18.160 --> 45:19.080
compression, audio

45:19.080 --> 45:20.960
formats, and lossy

45:20.960 --> 45:22.600
versus lossless, and a

45:22.600 --> 45:23.380
lot of other interesting

45:23.380 --> 45:24.940
audio things as well, so

45:24.940 --> 45:27.000
go back and check that

45:27.000 --> 45:28.060
episode out if you're

45:28.060 --> 45:29.200
interested in that topic.

45:30.280 --> 45:32.080
So yeah, I'm saying, you

45:32.080 --> 45:32.840
know what, it's time to

45:32.840 --> 45:33.640
get these AUGs out

45:33.640 --> 45:34.900
there, it's my fault for

45:34.900 --> 45:36.040
putting them off, trying to

45:36.040 --> 45:37.200
do too much myself, I

45:37.200 --> 45:38.280
should really back off

45:38.280 --> 45:39.460
sometimes and let people

45:39.460 --> 45:41.160
help out, and old

45:41.160 --> 45:41.820
school, thank you for

45:41.820 --> 45:42.280
doing that.

45:42.820 --> 45:43.600
Again, if you are

45:43.600 --> 45:44.720
interested in the

45:44.720 --> 45:46.160
AugVorbis files of

45:46.160 --> 45:46.860
Binary Revolution

45:46.860 --> 45:47.820
Radio, he has season

45:47.820 --> 45:48.760
one up, and maybe

45:48.760 --> 45:49.920
season two by the time

45:49.920 --> 45:52.460
this airs, at

45:52.460 --> 45:56.280
remoteexploitation.com,

45:56.480 --> 45:57.360
so thank you old

45:57.360 --> 45:57.960
school for that.

45:59.460 --> 46:01.280
And, our last email

46:01.280 --> 46:02.220
this week comes from

46:02.220 --> 46:02.700
Elzer.

46:03.800 --> 46:04.840
Elzer says, dear

46:04.840 --> 46:06.200
stank dog and

46:06.200 --> 46:07.760
Virgil, look at that,

46:07.780 --> 46:08.500
it says it right there.

46:08.520 --> 46:09.100
Oh, how kind?

46:09.160 --> 46:10.120
I know, I made that

46:10.120 --> 46:10.300
up.

46:10.820 --> 46:11.700
Dear stank dog and

46:11.700 --> 46:13.460
Virgil, what's up in

46:13.460 --> 46:14.320
the, nobody knew you

46:14.320 --> 46:14.620
were going to be,

46:14.640 --> 46:16.060
actually, we've been

46:16.060 --> 46:17.520
trying to get, we've

46:17.520 --> 46:18.460
just had really weird

46:18.460 --> 46:19.720
scheduling conflicts

46:19.720 --> 46:20.560
trying to get you on

46:20.560 --> 46:20.920
the show.

46:21.720 --> 46:23.180
So, I'm glad to have

46:23.180 --> 46:23.860
you on, hopefully we'll

46:23.860 --> 46:24.600
get you on again soon.

46:24.740 --> 46:26.000
But, anyway, dear

46:26.000 --> 46:27.700
stank dog and Virgil,

46:27.800 --> 46:28.760
what's up in the DDP

46:28.760 --> 46:29.180
hood?

46:29.500 --> 46:30.380
First, I would like to

46:30.380 --> 46:31.980
wish Decoder all the

46:31.980 --> 46:33.500
best, and I hope that

46:33.500 --> 46:34.420
he can be let off

46:34.420 --> 46:34.860
easily.

46:35.020 --> 46:36.700
The Mind War was a

46:36.700 --> 46:37.580
really neat show, and

46:37.580 --> 46:38.320
I would really like to

46:38.320 --> 46:39.300
hear his voice again.

46:39.760 --> 46:40.820
It sucks when a member

46:40.820 --> 46:41.800
of the community gets

46:41.800 --> 46:43.200
busted by the feds.

46:44.100 --> 46:45.180
Well, yeah, it does.

46:45.920 --> 46:47.080
Second, are you still

46:47.080 --> 46:48.020
looking for people to

46:48.020 --> 46:48.820
help with the

46:48.820 --> 46:49.860
hacktivism site you

46:49.860 --> 46:50.360
were planning?

46:50.720 --> 46:51.600
I wanted to mention

46:51.600 --> 46:52.460
this on the air because

46:52.460 --> 46:53.560
I had actually not

46:53.560 --> 46:54.940
heard of it before, and

46:54.940 --> 46:56.820
I think this project is

46:56.820 --> 46:57.700
definitely worth

46:57.700 --> 46:58.220
mentioning.

46:58.760 --> 46:59.660
Anyway, I would love

46:59.660 --> 47:00.500
to help out with it.

47:00.700 --> 47:01.740
Good luck, and happy

47:01.740 --> 47:02.100
hacking.

47:04.400 --> 47:07.400
Alright, people who

47:07.400 --> 47:07.920
listen to the show

47:07.920 --> 47:10.440
regularly know that

47:10.440 --> 47:11.560
Decoder is in a

47:11.560 --> 47:13.160
troublesome situation

47:13.160 --> 47:13.880
right now.

47:15.400 --> 47:16.520
Virgil, I know you've

47:16.520 --> 47:17.180
been through a little

47:17.180 --> 47:18.060
bit of a process like

47:18.060 --> 47:19.020
this with your

47:19.020 --> 47:20.020
situation, but that was

47:20.020 --> 47:20.700
more from a private

47:20.700 --> 47:21.140
company.

47:21.660 --> 47:22.360
Decoder is getting

47:22.360 --> 47:24.000
hassled from the feds

47:24.000 --> 47:26.020
and for reasons that

47:26.020 --> 47:29.520
are totally, what's the

47:29.520 --> 47:30.820
word, benign.

47:31.820 --> 47:33.600
So, it's really a bad

47:33.600 --> 47:35.460
situation, and we have

47:35.460 --> 47:36.600
avoided talking about it

47:36.600 --> 47:37.540
on the show, and we're

47:37.540 --> 47:38.780
going to continue to avoid

47:38.780 --> 47:40.020
talking about it for the

47:40.020 --> 47:42.100
one reason that it's still

47:42.100 --> 47:43.880
ongoing, and when you're

47:43.880 --> 47:44.840
dealing with the feds,

47:45.080 --> 47:46.100
stirring up more trouble

47:46.100 --> 47:47.340
and making a big stink is

47:47.340 --> 47:48.100
making it worse on

47:48.100 --> 47:48.480
Decoder.

47:48.640 --> 47:50.840
So, I appreciate that

47:50.840 --> 47:52.680
everybody has been very

47:52.680 --> 47:53.700
respectful of that

47:53.700 --> 47:54.900
situation, and I do

47:54.900 --> 47:55.860
appreciate people have

47:55.860 --> 47:57.520
not pushed it and stirred

47:57.520 --> 47:58.400
up a lot of trouble.

47:58.400 --> 48:00.220
Let's let it play itself

48:00.220 --> 48:00.500
out.

48:00.580 --> 48:01.360
You've got to play their

48:01.360 --> 48:02.280
game for a little while,

48:02.480 --> 48:05.440
and we might have some

48:05.440 --> 48:06.620
news soon.

48:08.040 --> 48:09.440
Not good news, not bad

48:09.440 --> 48:10.880
news, but some news, and

48:10.880 --> 48:11.920
we will let people in when

48:11.920 --> 48:12.500
it is time.

48:12.580 --> 48:14.320
So, please hold off just

48:14.320 --> 48:15.480
a little bit longer, and I

48:15.480 --> 48:16.540
do sincerely appreciate

48:16.540 --> 48:18.040
that people have kind of

48:18.040 --> 48:19.820
stayed away from this, but

48:19.820 --> 48:20.700
we will definitely have

48:20.700 --> 48:21.920
something to talk about

48:21.920 --> 48:23.800
in the next month or so.

48:23.900 --> 48:24.680
So, as soon as I know

48:24.680 --> 48:25.800
something and feel that

48:25.800 --> 48:27.080
it's time to talk about

48:27.080 --> 48:28.000
it, we will definitely do

48:28.000 --> 48:28.220
that.

48:28.400 --> 48:30.020
Now, as far as the

48:30.020 --> 48:32.580
Hacktivism site, which is

48:32.580 --> 48:33.940
very, very related to

48:33.940 --> 48:34.700
this, because this is

48:34.700 --> 48:35.520
where we would share

48:35.520 --> 48:36.780
information and try to

48:36.780 --> 48:38.920
help people from getting

48:38.920 --> 48:40.100
in this situation again,

48:41.000 --> 48:42.360
quite frankly, the

48:42.360 --> 48:43.480
Hacktivism site is yet

48:43.480 --> 48:45.000
another project that I

48:45.000 --> 48:46.340
take on, and it's just

48:46.340 --> 48:47.620
too much for me to

48:47.620 --> 48:47.860
carry.

48:47.960 --> 48:48.640
I don't have enough

48:48.640 --> 48:49.560
hours in the day to do

48:49.560 --> 48:51.540
everything, and it fell to

48:51.540 --> 48:52.040
the wayside.

48:52.140 --> 48:52.960
Just a lot of other

48:52.960 --> 48:54.800
projects kind of jumped

48:54.800 --> 48:56.040
ahead on the list, and

48:56.040 --> 48:57.620
Freak Factor came along,

48:57.620 --> 48:59.400
and presentations and

48:59.400 --> 49:00.760
conferences and whatnot, so

49:00.760 --> 49:01.580
this is kind of falling

49:01.580 --> 49:02.080
aside.

49:02.500 --> 49:04.460
I do still want this to

49:04.460 --> 49:07.040
go forward, but I'll

49:07.040 --> 49:07.880
basically, I'll just be

49:07.880 --> 49:08.700
very blunt with this.

49:08.820 --> 49:10.220
I cannot do this project

49:10.220 --> 49:10.860
by myself.

49:10.860 --> 49:14.900
I have no time to maintain

49:14.900 --> 49:17.220
this, to contribute every

49:17.220 --> 49:18.680
single day, to babysit it,

49:18.720 --> 49:19.740
to watch it, to nurture

49:19.740 --> 49:20.020
it.

49:20.560 --> 49:21.940
To get a site up and

49:21.940 --> 49:23.320
running and successful, you

49:23.320 --> 49:24.780
have to spend time on it

49:24.780 --> 49:26.300
every day almost.

49:27.040 --> 49:28.080
Every single day.

49:28.140 --> 49:28.960
You've got to watch it,

49:29.020 --> 49:29.820
you've got to help it

49:29.820 --> 49:30.860
grow, you've got to make

49:30.860 --> 49:32.760
sure it stays in the

49:32.760 --> 49:33.840
direction that you want it,

49:33.880 --> 49:34.600
that it doesn't become

49:34.600 --> 49:35.820
chaotic, that everything's

49:35.820 --> 49:37.940
nice and clean, and it's a

49:37.940 --> 49:38.920
lot of maintenance that

49:38.920 --> 49:39.340
goes on.

49:39.400 --> 49:40.240
You've got to check in on

49:40.240 --> 49:41.500
it every day or two to

49:41.500 --> 49:42.440
make sure that it's still

49:42.440 --> 49:43.900
moving and still active.

49:44.260 --> 49:44.980
Kind of like that old

49:44.980 --> 49:46.980
thing about 2,600 meetings.

49:47.080 --> 49:48.000
If somebody goes to the

49:48.000 --> 49:48.800
site and it hasn't been

49:48.800 --> 49:49.740
updated in three months,

49:49.880 --> 49:50.680
they're not going to go to

49:50.680 --> 49:51.040
the meeting.

49:51.320 --> 49:52.080
It looks like it's been

49:52.080 --> 49:52.460
abandoned.

49:52.580 --> 49:53.040
It looks dead.

49:53.100 --> 49:53.920
You have to keep updating

49:53.920 --> 49:54.840
it, show people that

49:54.840 --> 49:56.560
there's still interest and

49:56.560 --> 49:57.300
still activity.

49:57.800 --> 49:58.380
And you want to make

49:58.380 --> 50:00.220
sure that you aren't

50:00.220 --> 50:01.420
getting Google referrers for

50:01.420 --> 50:02.520
kitty porn and stuff like

50:02.520 --> 50:02.700
that.

50:02.700 --> 50:03.980
Exactly.

50:04.520 --> 50:06.600
I used to get that.

50:07.360 --> 50:10.660
A lot of spammers will go

50:10.660 --> 50:12.340
in and just post replies to

50:12.340 --> 50:13.200
unrelated topics.

50:13.320 --> 50:13.900
You know what the big one

50:13.900 --> 50:14.580
is right now?

50:15.440 --> 50:16.940
Seven card stud poker or

50:16.940 --> 50:17.640
whatever it's called.

50:17.820 --> 50:19.660
Seven card Texas Hold'em

50:19.660 --> 50:20.380
poker sites.

50:20.900 --> 50:22.000
That's what all the spam I

50:22.000 --> 50:22.760
see is about now.

50:23.460 --> 50:24.560
Actually, I'll tell you

50:24.560 --> 50:24.840
something.

50:25.280 --> 50:26.540
This is kind of an

50:26.540 --> 50:28.360
underhanded technique, but

50:28.360 --> 50:29.180
it's kind of interesting.

50:29.180 --> 50:32.280
Lots of bloggers watch

50:32.280 --> 50:34.200
their Google referrers very

50:34.200 --> 50:34.920
religiously.

50:35.340 --> 50:37.720
If you spoof many, many

50:37.720 --> 50:39.160
Google referrers to their

50:39.160 --> 50:41.420
websites, say about some

50:41.420 --> 50:43.600
certain topic, you can very

50:43.600 --> 50:44.460
often get them talking

50:44.460 --> 50:45.300
about this topic.

50:47.520 --> 50:50.100
And that's probably all I can

50:50.100 --> 50:50.680
say about that.

50:50.740 --> 50:51.520
But there are times when

50:51.520 --> 50:52.180
this has been done.

50:52.720 --> 50:52.860
Hmm.

50:53.720 --> 50:53.940
Hmm.

50:54.120 --> 50:54.920
Sounds interesting.

50:55.020 --> 50:55.620
Sounds intriguing.

50:56.160 --> 50:56.560
Certainly.

50:56.560 --> 50:59.740
Um, well, as far as this

50:59.740 --> 51:01.280
hacktivism site, I am

51:01.280 --> 51:03.020
absolutely, I still wanted

51:03.020 --> 51:04.580
to go forward with this

51:04.580 --> 51:04.940
project.

51:05.220 --> 51:06.340
I set the site up.

51:06.460 --> 51:07.120
It's registered.

51:07.320 --> 51:07.920
It's running.

51:08.020 --> 51:09.480
I've installed, um, a

51:09.480 --> 51:10.460
content management system

51:10.460 --> 51:11.200
on there that does

51:11.200 --> 51:12.260
everything that we want to

51:12.260 --> 51:12.420
do.

51:12.520 --> 51:13.640
I have customized it.

51:14.160 --> 51:15.180
The only thing left to do

51:15.180 --> 51:17.280
is, A, to work out the

51:17.280 --> 51:18.300
graphics for it, a little bit

51:18.300 --> 51:19.320
of layout design work.

51:19.940 --> 51:22.380
And secondly, start putting

51:22.380 --> 51:23.240
up content.

51:23.240 --> 51:26.540
And I think Virgil and I

51:26.540 --> 51:27.780
also agree on this, that

51:27.780 --> 51:29.460
this whole myth about, I

51:29.460 --> 51:30.420
won't say myth, but this

51:30.420 --> 51:32.560
whole preconception of what

51:32.560 --> 51:34.360
hacktivism is just gets on

51:34.360 --> 51:35.160
my last nerve.

51:35.280 --> 51:36.420
I just absolutely can't

51:36.420 --> 51:37.520
stand that when you say

51:37.520 --> 51:39.520
hacktivism, the first thing

51:39.520 --> 51:41.160
that people picture is

51:41.160 --> 51:44.340
anarchists and chaos theory

51:44.340 --> 51:46.440
and defacing web page in the

51:46.440 --> 51:47.640
name of some cause or

51:47.640 --> 51:48.020
something.

51:48.580 --> 51:49.420
I mean, granted...

51:49.420 --> 51:50.320
Yeah, but actually, there is

51:50.320 --> 51:51.100
something I want to comment

51:51.100 --> 51:51.360
on here.

51:51.360 --> 51:53.300
I'm looking at the notes

51:53.300 --> 51:53.580
here.

51:54.160 --> 51:55.440
The hacktivism is spelled

51:55.440 --> 51:58.840
H-A-C-K-T-I-V-I-S-M.

52:00.300 --> 52:01.840
Death Veggie from Colt

52:01.840 --> 52:03.160
a Cow would be totally

52:03.160 --> 52:04.140
squirming, you know,

52:04.180 --> 52:05.120
whenever he sees that.

52:05.940 --> 52:07.960
I think, I don't know, I

52:07.960 --> 52:10.500
know Death Veggie was, if

52:10.500 --> 52:11.480
not the first, I think one

52:11.480 --> 52:12.500
of the first people to

52:12.500 --> 52:13.860
initially use the term, and

52:13.860 --> 52:14.820
it was initially spelled

52:14.820 --> 52:15.540
without the K.

52:16.020 --> 52:17.420
So it was just activism

52:17.420 --> 52:19.100
with an H at the

52:19.100 --> 52:19.340
beginning.

52:19.340 --> 52:21.700
I've noticed that more

52:21.700 --> 52:23.180
and more, even people in

52:23.180 --> 52:24.800
the media, they're putting

52:24.800 --> 52:25.780
emphasis on the hack

52:25.780 --> 52:26.760
rather than the activism.

52:29.640 --> 52:32.100
Well, I don't know, I'm not

52:32.100 --> 52:33.000
going to tell people how

52:33.000 --> 52:34.160
they should spell their

52:34.160 --> 52:37.360
words, but I think the

52:37.360 --> 52:38.120
emphasis there is very

52:38.120 --> 52:38.480
important.

52:38.980 --> 52:40.440
Right, and actually that's

52:40.440 --> 52:41.720
very much consistent with

52:41.720 --> 52:42.700
what we do on the show.

52:42.860 --> 52:44.160
Emphasis is on the hack.

52:44.640 --> 52:45.940
The emphasis is on the

52:45.940 --> 52:46.200
tech.

52:46.200 --> 52:48.000
So it's not really, I

52:48.000 --> 52:49.300
mean, I understand what

52:49.300 --> 52:50.340
you're saying, but also,

52:50.480 --> 52:51.900
also, wasn't there, isn't

52:51.900 --> 52:52.520
there project the

52:52.520 --> 52:54.540
hacktivismo with an O at

52:54.540 --> 52:55.220
the end of it as well?

52:55.620 --> 52:57.260
I don't know if that's

52:57.260 --> 52:57.720
still going.

52:58.060 --> 52:58.920
Supposedly, Peek-a-Booty

52:58.920 --> 52:59.840
was supposed to be released

52:59.840 --> 53:01.000
at some point.

53:01.100 --> 53:01.740
I know there were some

53:01.740 --> 53:03.380
betas floating around, but

53:03.380 --> 53:04.860
as far as I know, that

53:04.860 --> 53:05.820
project is no longer

53:05.820 --> 53:06.160
active.

53:06.360 --> 53:07.740
Yeah, I saw betas, and

53:07.740 --> 53:08.620
that's all I ever saw of

53:08.620 --> 53:09.180
that as well.

53:09.320 --> 53:11.300
But, again, I, you know

53:11.300 --> 53:12.500
what, it's, and that's,

53:12.500 --> 53:13.420
that's kind of one of the

53:13.420 --> 53:14.260
problems, is there are a

53:14.260 --> 53:14.860
bunch of different

53:14.860 --> 53:15.320
definitions.

53:15.500 --> 53:17.220
People took it a step

53:17.220 --> 53:18.980
further, and, and yeah,

53:19.160 --> 53:20.240
emphasis on the hack, and

53:20.240 --> 53:20.960
they were using it to

53:20.960 --> 53:22.200
deface websites, and

53:22.200 --> 53:26.020
that's exactly why I want

53:26.020 --> 53:27.680
to use this, and by, and

53:27.680 --> 53:29.060
I want to take the word

53:29.060 --> 53:30.600
back, just like I want to

53:30.600 --> 53:31.460
take the definition of

53:31.460 --> 53:32.520
the word hacking back that

53:32.520 --> 53:33.400
the media has ruined.

53:34.040 --> 53:35.120
Now, I'm not foolish

53:35.120 --> 53:36.080
enough to think that it's

53:36.080 --> 53:36.840
going to happen in a

53:36.840 --> 53:37.740
short period of time,

53:37.780 --> 53:38.680
because it's been abused

53:38.680 --> 53:40.280
for so long, but the same

53:40.280 --> 53:40.820
with this word.

53:40.820 --> 53:41.880
I don't want hacktivism to

53:41.880 --> 53:43.280
be tied to these punks,

53:43.280 --> 53:44.300
that these people out

53:44.300 --> 53:45.500
there that are defacing

53:45.500 --> 53:47.500
websites, because of

53:47.500 --> 53:49.280
some, quite frankly, I

53:49.280 --> 53:50.040
don't believe that there's

53:50.040 --> 53:50.580
a cause to it.

53:50.600 --> 53:51.340
I think it's just an

53:51.340 --> 53:52.020
excuse to be

53:52.020 --> 53:52.680
troublemakers.

53:53.760 --> 53:54.880
That's just my opinion,

53:55.000 --> 53:56.260
of course, and I've

53:56.260 --> 53:57.160
mentioned this on the air

53:57.160 --> 53:59.140
before, and I see a rise

53:59.140 --> 54:00.240
in attempted attacks on

54:00.240 --> 54:01.400
my server the next day.

54:02.080 --> 54:03.460
So, you know, do what

54:03.460 --> 54:04.260
you got to do, people,

54:04.320 --> 54:05.060
and you disagree with

54:05.060 --> 54:05.820
me, but you know what?

54:06.520 --> 54:07.540
I'm going, what I want

54:07.540 --> 54:08.180
to do with this site,

54:08.280 --> 54:09.240
what I, my definition,

54:09.420 --> 54:10.320
what I, my goal for

54:10.320 --> 54:12.860
hacktivism, is to prove

54:12.860 --> 54:13.840
that, you know what, we

54:13.840 --> 54:15.500
are hackers, and we are

54:15.500 --> 54:16.480
affected by a lot of

54:16.480 --> 54:17.540
these laws that you guys

54:17.540 --> 54:18.060
implement.

54:18.660 --> 54:20.220
General technology laws,

54:20.680 --> 54:22.080
these anti-terrorism

54:22.080 --> 54:23.280
things that catch us up

54:23.280 --> 54:24.160
in the loop, oh yeah,

54:24.220 --> 54:25.060
throw the baby out with

54:25.060 --> 54:26.700
the bathwater, let's call

54:26.700 --> 54:28.000
all hackers out there a

54:28.000 --> 54:28.820
bunch of terrorists and

54:28.820 --> 54:29.720
label them with terrorists.

54:29.840 --> 54:30.200
Guess what?

54:30.240 --> 54:31.140
I'm not a terrorist.

54:31.980 --> 54:32.340
You know?

54:32.460 --> 54:33.480
I don't want to be

54:33.480 --> 54:34.440
associated with that.

54:34.660 --> 54:36.380
So, you know, basically

54:36.380 --> 54:37.580
what I want to do is,

54:37.660 --> 54:38.600
when information like

54:38.600 --> 54:39.080
this, when the

54:39.080 --> 54:39.680
government's making

54:39.680 --> 54:40.500
decisions, when

54:40.500 --> 54:41.460
companies like their

54:41.460 --> 54:43.380
RAA, et cetera, are

54:43.380 --> 54:44.380
going forward, making

54:44.380 --> 54:45.260
these, taking these

54:45.260 --> 54:46.440
foolish actions and

54:46.440 --> 54:48.480
stuff, I want a site

54:48.480 --> 54:49.640
that can show the

54:49.640 --> 54:50.840
other side of the

54:50.840 --> 54:52.200
point, to show another

54:52.200 --> 54:52.860
point of view.

54:53.180 --> 54:54.720
I realize the EFF is

54:54.720 --> 54:55.100
out there.

54:55.160 --> 54:55.940
I realize there's a

54:55.940 --> 54:56.880
lot of other sites,

54:57.000 --> 54:57.980
uphill battle, there's

54:57.980 --> 54:59.840
tons of them, but I

54:59.840 --> 55:01.420
want one, and it's

55:01.420 --> 55:02.320
exactly what you said

55:02.320 --> 55:03.780
earlier, I do want one

55:03.780 --> 55:05.820
that emphasizes the

55:05.820 --> 55:06.160
hack.

55:06.160 --> 55:08.140
I want one that is a

55:08.140 --> 55:09.940
site for hackers, by

55:09.940 --> 55:10.940
hackers, about how

55:10.940 --> 55:12.700
hackers are affected by

55:12.700 --> 55:13.900
these political decisions

55:13.900 --> 55:14.560
that are made.

55:15.360 --> 55:16.280
Now, this is not a

55:16.280 --> 55:17.540
political show, and I'm

55:17.540 --> 55:18.500
not going to go in any

55:18.500 --> 55:19.380
deeper than we already

55:19.380 --> 55:20.800
have, but that is my

55:20.800 --> 55:21.660
vision for the site.

55:21.980 --> 55:24.120
I want news items, I

55:24.120 --> 55:25.180
want laws that are

55:25.180 --> 55:26.180
being passed, acts

55:26.180 --> 55:26.820
that are being looked

55:26.820 --> 55:27.800
into, decisions that

55:27.800 --> 55:28.440
are being made.

55:28.880 --> 55:30.100
I want them to be,

55:30.240 --> 55:30.960
instead of going out

55:30.960 --> 55:31.920
and defacing a site,

55:32.240 --> 55:33.120
instead of crying,

55:33.300 --> 55:34.100
instead of standing up

55:34.100 --> 55:35.020
on a soapbox and

55:35.020 --> 55:36.120
pounding on the Bible,

55:36.160 --> 55:37.080
and trying to

55:37.080 --> 55:38.280
convert it, I would

55:38.280 --> 55:39.260
rather stand back and

55:39.260 --> 55:39.900
say, you know what,

55:40.160 --> 55:41.280
we are some of the

55:41.280 --> 55:42.300
most intelligent people

55:42.300 --> 55:43.520
on the planet, myself

55:43.520 --> 55:44.460
excluded, of course.

55:45.000 --> 55:45.780
We are people with

55:45.780 --> 55:46.840
educations, we are

55:46.840 --> 55:48.000
hackers, we do things

55:48.000 --> 55:48.560
that other people

55:48.560 --> 55:50.360
cannot do, we think

55:50.360 --> 55:50.960
differently than

55:50.960 --> 55:52.440
everyone else, why

55:52.440 --> 55:54.080
not put that to good

55:54.080 --> 55:55.080
use, and let's

55:55.080 --> 55:57.040
educate people, and

55:57.040 --> 55:58.280
it may be naive, but

55:58.280 --> 55:58.980
you have to start

55:58.980 --> 56:00.360
somewhere, if we can

56:00.360 --> 56:01.380
break down some of

56:01.380 --> 56:02.160
these bills and do

56:02.160 --> 56:03.000
some analysis and

56:03.000 --> 56:04.460
point out problems

56:04.460 --> 56:05.420
with them, and

56:05.420 --> 56:06.360
possibly offer

56:06.360 --> 56:07.240
solutions, or

56:07.240 --> 56:08.440
different viewpoints,

56:09.100 --> 56:10.240
maybe somebody will

56:10.240 --> 56:11.420
actually be educated

56:11.420 --> 56:12.480
and listen, and maybe

56:12.480 --> 56:13.620
we can have some

56:13.620 --> 56:14.000
effect.

56:14.400 --> 56:15.920
Maybe we won't, but

56:15.920 --> 56:16.960
I bet you we will at

56:16.960 --> 56:18.020
least educate some

56:18.020 --> 56:19.040
people that visit the

56:19.040 --> 56:21.060
site, and maybe if we

56:21.060 --> 56:21.860
just touch one

56:21.860 --> 56:23.080
politician out there,

56:24.080 --> 56:24.780
make a small

56:24.780 --> 56:25.200
difference.

56:25.360 --> 56:26.240
That's all I want to

56:26.240 --> 56:26.800
do with the site.

56:27.000 --> 56:28.460
So yes, if anyone is

56:28.460 --> 56:29.340
interested, email me

56:29.340 --> 56:30.340
directly about that,

56:30.340 --> 56:31.580
stankdog, at

56:31.580 --> 56:33.560
stankdog.com, that's

56:33.560 --> 56:36.700
S-T-A-N-K-D-A-W-G, at

56:36.700 --> 56:38.920
stankdog.com, and we

56:38.920 --> 56:40.060
will talk about that.

56:41.920 --> 56:43.540
Now, let's see, how

56:43.540 --> 56:43.900
are we?

56:43.960 --> 56:45.560
We are, whoo, let's

56:45.560 --> 56:46.500
see here, we're going

56:46.500 --> 56:48.020
to have to, let's jump

56:48.020 --> 56:48.540
through the show and

56:48.540 --> 56:49.800
tell super fast and go

56:49.800 --> 56:50.440
straight to the main

56:50.440 --> 56:50.740
topic.

56:50.800 --> 56:51.220
How's that?

56:51.680 --> 56:52.040
All right.

56:52.260 --> 56:53.140
All right, because all

56:53.140 --> 56:54.860
I wanted to mention in

56:54.860 --> 56:55.540
the show and tell for

56:55.540 --> 56:57.300
myself is that I am

56:57.300 --> 56:58.000
working on putting

56:58.000 --> 56:58.880
together some

56:58.880 --> 56:59.800
information about

56:59.800 --> 57:00.680
BINREV meetings.

57:01.400 --> 57:02.600
A lot of people out

57:02.600 --> 57:03.320
there don't have a

57:03.320 --> 57:04.600
local 2600 meeting.

57:05.080 --> 57:06.180
A lot of people are,

57:06.500 --> 57:07.540
for whatever reason,

57:07.640 --> 57:08.460
one reason or another,

57:08.640 --> 57:09.380
they don't like their

57:09.380 --> 57:10.640
2600 meeting or the

57:10.640 --> 57:11.780
attitudes or the

57:11.780 --> 57:13.400
egos or whatever the

57:13.400 --> 57:14.460
situation may be, and

57:14.460 --> 57:15.060
we've had people

57:15.060 --> 57:15.860
request and show

57:15.860 --> 57:17.340
interest in binary

57:17.340 --> 57:18.220
revolution meetings.

57:18.380 --> 57:19.560
I go to my 2600

57:19.560 --> 57:20.560
meeting and my DEFCON

57:20.560 --> 57:23.060
meeting, so I'm

57:23.060 --> 57:24.080
basically, as far as

57:24.080 --> 57:25.220
I'm concerned, the

57:25.220 --> 57:27.160
more times you can

57:27.160 --> 57:27.900
meet with fellow

57:27.900 --> 57:28.800
hackers and work on

57:28.800 --> 57:29.400
things, the better.

57:29.620 --> 57:30.900
So I am working

57:30.900 --> 57:31.940
together, working on

57:31.940 --> 57:33.000
putting together some

57:33.000 --> 57:34.580
information on starting

57:34.580 --> 57:35.420
binary revolution

57:35.420 --> 57:37.500
meetings, so as soon

57:37.500 --> 57:38.420
as I get that ready,

57:38.500 --> 57:39.540
I will announce it on

57:39.540 --> 57:39.960
the site.

57:41.040 --> 57:42.700
And looking ahead

57:42.700 --> 57:43.460
towards DEFCON,

57:43.540 --> 57:44.520
DEFCON is coming up

57:44.520 --> 57:45.400
the end of July,

57:45.480 --> 57:46.280
beginning of August,

57:46.440 --> 57:47.760
so we're just now

57:47.760 --> 57:48.500
going to start forming

57:48.500 --> 57:49.260
some plans and

57:49.260 --> 57:50.460
figuring out how

57:50.460 --> 57:51.080
long we're going to

57:51.080 --> 57:51.780
stay, where we're

57:51.780 --> 57:52.700
going to stay, things

57:52.700 --> 57:53.240
like that.

57:54.400 --> 57:55.720
And catching up on my

57:55.720 --> 57:56.320
reading a little bit

57:56.320 --> 57:58.940
in general, gosh,

57:59.360 --> 58:00.520
there's two, I'll

58:00.520 --> 58:01.000
just say it like

58:01.000 --> 58:01.620
this, there's two

58:01.620 --> 58:02.660
very good issues of

58:02.660 --> 58:03.780
popular science out

58:03.780 --> 58:04.300
right now.

58:04.620 --> 58:05.340
I just got done

58:05.340 --> 58:06.160
reading the May

58:06.160 --> 58:08.060
2005, which was a

58:08.060 --> 58:08.940
very good issue, had

58:08.940 --> 58:09.840
some stuff of interest

58:09.840 --> 58:10.480
to hackers, there was

58:10.480 --> 58:11.460
an article actually on

58:11.460 --> 58:13.420
DEFCON in there, and

58:13.420 --> 58:14.000
basically it was

58:14.000 --> 58:14.940
emphasizing the war

58:14.940 --> 58:15.700
games, the capture

58:15.700 --> 58:17.120
the flag stuff, which

58:17.120 --> 58:17.680
was an interesting

58:17.680 --> 58:19.380
article, but also in

58:19.380 --> 58:20.080
addition to that, it

58:20.080 --> 58:20.740
had a very long

58:20.740 --> 58:22.720
section on, I guess the

58:22.720 --> 58:23.400
term is smart

58:23.400 --> 58:24.420
phones, those PDA

58:24.420 --> 58:25.240
phones, and the

58:25.240 --> 58:25.800
different operating

58:25.800 --> 58:26.560
systems, and the

58:26.560 --> 58:27.140
features, and the

58:27.140 --> 58:28.020
benefits, and the

58:28.020 --> 58:29.500
pros and cons, and

58:29.500 --> 58:30.200
things, so if you're

58:30.200 --> 58:30.820
into that kind of

58:30.820 --> 58:31.380
stuff, there was a

58:31.380 --> 58:32.120
very good article in

58:32.120 --> 58:34.180
that one, and in the

58:34.180 --> 58:34.900
current issue, as soon

58:34.900 --> 58:35.400
as I got done with

58:35.400 --> 58:36.320
that one, which is

58:36.320 --> 58:38.440
obviously the new one

58:38.440 --> 58:39.320
just is coming out, I

58:39.320 --> 58:39.800
just got it in the

58:39.800 --> 58:40.420
mail, I think, day

58:40.420 --> 58:42.500
before yesterday, has a

58:42.500 --> 58:44.040
very good article on

58:44.040 --> 58:46.440
one of my, one of the

58:46.440 --> 58:47.320
few heroes that I

58:47.320 --> 58:48.340
actually have, I think

58:48.340 --> 58:49.240
I can say that he is a

58:49.240 --> 58:50.720
hero of mine, there was

58:50.720 --> 58:51.640
a very good article on

58:51.640 --> 58:52.560
Albert Einstein in

58:52.560 --> 58:54.180
there, and a lot of

58:54.180 --> 58:55.200
good information, and

58:55.200 --> 58:56.780
a lot of interesting

58:56.780 --> 58:57.720
viewpoints, and

58:57.720 --> 58:59.300
thoughts, and what if

58:59.300 --> 59:00.380
Albert Einstein never

59:00.380 --> 59:01.720
existed, what if some

59:01.720 --> 59:03.680
of his theories, and

59:03.680 --> 59:05.560
his findings never

59:05.560 --> 59:07.220
happened, so there's a

59:07.220 --> 59:08.260
very good article about

59:08.260 --> 59:09.060
that in there, so if

59:09.060 --> 59:09.820
you're, if either one

59:09.820 --> 59:10.640
of those interest you,

59:11.000 --> 59:11.580
first of all, I

59:11.580 --> 59:13.000
recommend subscribing to

59:13.000 --> 59:13.580
Popular Science

59:13.580 --> 59:14.320
anyway, it's a great

59:14.320 --> 59:16.180
magazine, great magazine,

59:16.280 --> 59:17.000
it's less than a buck

59:17.000 --> 59:17.720
an issue, I'm not a

59:17.720 --> 59:18.480
commercial or anything

59:18.480 --> 59:19.780
for them, but even if

59:19.780 --> 59:20.140
you don't want to

59:20.140 --> 59:20.900
subscribe, you might

59:20.900 --> 59:21.320
want to go to the

59:21.320 --> 59:22.440
bookstore, and pick

59:22.440 --> 59:23.160
these two particular

59:23.160 --> 59:24.000
issues up off the

59:24.000 --> 59:26.060
shelf, if, if any of

59:26.060 --> 59:26.520
those sounded

59:26.520 --> 59:27.320
interesting to you.

59:28.420 --> 59:29.500
So, Virgil, what do

59:29.500 --> 59:29.760
you got?

59:30.700 --> 59:31.540
Let's see, most

59:31.540 --> 59:31.920
things I've been

59:31.920 --> 59:33.100
doing, I guess there

59:33.100 --> 59:33.740
are two things really,

59:33.860 --> 59:34.480
and they're kind of

59:34.480 --> 59:35.840
related, and conveniently

59:35.840 --> 59:36.580
they're kind of related

59:36.580 --> 59:37.360
to the main topic.

59:37.500 --> 59:38.260
All right, well then we

59:38.260 --> 59:38.660
will segue.

59:38.660 --> 59:39.900
The main thing I've been

59:39.900 --> 59:41.880
getting into is data

59:41.880 --> 59:43.440
mining, and this is a

59:43.440 --> 59:44.240
pretty, pretty general

59:44.240 --> 59:46.480
purpose thing, but I

59:46.480 --> 59:47.100
don't know, I guess it

59:47.100 --> 59:48.740
really has two, well,

59:48.820 --> 59:49.740
just to describe it a

59:49.740 --> 59:51.760
little bit, it has

59:51.760 --> 59:52.820
basically two parts, and

59:52.820 --> 59:53.120
they're pretty

59:53.120 --> 59:53.580
straightforward.

59:54.340 --> 59:56.440
The first one is massive

59:56.440 --> 59:58.020
data collection from

59:58.020 --> 59:58.820
huge numbers of

59:58.820 --> 01:00:00.440
sources, and then after

01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:01.240
you have this huge

01:00:01.240 --> 01:00:03.280
mass of data, you then

01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:05.660
either A, pan for gold

01:00:05.660 --> 01:00:07.180
for the really exciting

01:00:07.180 --> 01:00:10.020
bits, or B, you do do

01:00:10.020 --> 01:00:11.340
some kind of, some

01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:13.060
sort of analysis,

01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:15.900
statistical or otherwise.

01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:18.200
And I don't know, and

01:00:18.200 --> 01:00:19.820
there's lots of great

01:00:19.820 --> 01:00:20.920
trivia here that I

01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:22.120
suspect most of your

01:00:22.120 --> 01:00:23.320
listeners will enjoy.

01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:26.040
Some people who've done

01:00:26.040 --> 01:00:27.440
this in the past, when

01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:29.460
the Nazis took over

01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:34.380
France, they, well, they

01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:35.460
wanted to kill Jews

01:00:35.460 --> 01:00:36.220
very quickly, because

01:00:36.220 --> 01:00:36.940
that was kind of in

01:00:36.940 --> 01:00:37.660
fashion at the time.

01:00:38.700 --> 01:00:40.040
So what they did was

01:00:40.040 --> 01:00:42.260
they raided all the

01:00:42.260 --> 01:00:44.060
big Jewish temples, and

01:00:44.060 --> 01:00:45.200
then they got all the

01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:46.120
little phone books of

01:00:46.120 --> 01:00:47.600
all the rabbis, and

01:00:47.600 --> 01:00:48.480
then they correlated all

01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:49.180
of them into a list.

01:00:49.520 --> 01:00:49.880
And they would say,

01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:52.060
oh, look, these are the

01:00:52.060 --> 01:00:53.520
people who are cited

01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:55.400
extremely frequently in

01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:56.380
all these rabbis' phone

01:00:56.380 --> 01:00:57.480
books, we should go get

01:00:57.480 --> 01:00:58.040
them first.

01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:01.640
And they did, and this

01:01:01.640 --> 01:01:02.860
was apparently a very

01:01:02.860 --> 01:01:03.640
successful technique.

01:01:03.640 --> 01:01:05.340
So, I don't know, this

01:01:05.340 --> 01:01:08.160
shows you kind of the

01:01:08.160 --> 01:01:09.280
unexpected ways in

01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:10.280
which these techniques

01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:10.920
can be employed.

01:01:11.180 --> 01:01:12.200
Right, and that's like

01:01:12.200 --> 01:01:13.180
probably one of the

01:01:13.180 --> 01:01:14.620
earliest forms of data

01:01:14.620 --> 01:01:14.980
mining.

01:01:15.540 --> 01:01:17.380
It's one of the most

01:01:17.380 --> 01:01:17.900
interesting ones,

01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:19.300
definitely, because there's

01:01:19.300 --> 01:01:20.180
no computers involved at

01:01:20.180 --> 01:01:20.340
all.

01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:21.340
Right, absolutely.

01:01:21.520 --> 01:01:22.540
Pre-computer, I was

01:01:22.540 --> 01:01:23.060
getting ready to say,

01:01:23.120 --> 01:01:23.800
that was before,

01:01:24.460 --> 01:01:25.640
obviously before Google,

01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:27.140
and well before computers

01:01:27.140 --> 01:01:27.980
ever came into the

01:01:27.980 --> 01:01:28.220
picture.

01:01:28.220 --> 01:01:30.980
So, yeah, that's a very

01:01:30.980 --> 01:01:31.900
interesting, very

01:01:31.900 --> 01:01:32.420
interesting one.

01:01:32.500 --> 01:01:33.440
And I guess, yeah, let's

01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:34.540
segue right into our main

01:01:34.540 --> 01:01:34.920
topic.

01:01:36.740 --> 01:01:38.000
Actually, no, there actually

01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:40.680
are a few more examples I

01:01:40.680 --> 01:01:41.260
want to give people that

01:01:41.260 --> 01:01:41.860
people may or may not

01:01:41.860 --> 01:01:42.300
know about.

01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:42.800
Sure, go ahead.

01:01:42.820 --> 01:01:43.660
That I think they'll

01:01:43.660 --> 01:01:43.980
enjoy.

01:01:44.080 --> 01:01:44.980
Some history, absolutely.

01:01:45.520 --> 01:01:45.740
Okay.

01:01:46.260 --> 01:01:47.780
So, some other interesting

01:01:47.780 --> 01:01:48.820
data mining things that

01:01:48.820 --> 01:01:51.080
you, that, I don't know if

01:01:51.080 --> 01:01:51.680
they're too well known

01:01:51.680 --> 01:01:53.820
right now, is the Alexa

01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:54.240
toolbar.

01:01:54.240 --> 01:01:56.480
Most of us who know about

01:01:56.480 --> 01:01:58.560
Alexa, of interest, the

01:01:58.560 --> 01:02:00.740
Alexa spider is the same

01:02:00.740 --> 01:02:01.660
spider that powers

01:02:01.660 --> 01:02:02.500
archive.org.

01:02:03.140 --> 01:02:04.200
So, you know, that's kind

01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:04.620
of interesting.

01:02:05.900 --> 01:02:08.000
But what I'm focusing on

01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:10.920
here is that the Alexa

01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:13.500
toolbar, which you get at

01:02:13.500 --> 01:02:14.620
Alexa.com, is actually

01:02:14.620 --> 01:02:15.180
spyware.

01:02:15.820 --> 01:02:17.880
And it shows you, it

01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:18.800
tells you which websites

01:02:18.800 --> 01:02:19.360
you've been visiting.

01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:20.960
It reports back to Alexa,

01:02:21.080 --> 01:02:22.820
which ones, you know,

01:02:22.820 --> 01:02:24.200
which sites you've been

01:02:24.200 --> 01:02:24.540
looking at.

01:02:24.580 --> 01:02:25.300
And it correlates them.

01:02:25.820 --> 01:02:27.140
You can actually go to

01:02:27.140 --> 01:02:29.280
Alexa.com and you can

01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:31.020
see, oh, look, you know,

01:02:31.080 --> 01:02:32.680
this site is more popular

01:02:32.680 --> 01:02:33.880
than this site.

01:02:34.120 --> 01:02:34.840
And people who visit this

01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:36.780
other site also visit these

01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:38.420
other sites and stuff like

01:02:38.420 --> 01:02:38.680
that.

01:02:40.260 --> 01:02:43.160
And this is an ability that

01:02:43.160 --> 01:02:44.420
you basically cannot, it's

01:02:44.420 --> 01:02:45.560
almost impossible to get

01:02:45.560 --> 01:02:46.500
any other way unless you're

01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:46.720
Google.

01:02:47.600 --> 01:02:48.480
Right, right.

01:02:48.620 --> 01:02:48.820
Well.

01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:49.860
So, that's kind of neat.

01:02:51.780 --> 01:02:52.320
Let's see.

01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:52.800
I don't know.

01:02:52.900 --> 01:02:54.180
And, I don't know.

01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:55.640
I guess this is sort of

01:02:55.640 --> 01:02:56.660
obvious, but I guess

01:02:56.660 --> 01:02:57.120
that everyone should

01:02:57.120 --> 01:02:59.660
always mention the NSA's

01:02:59.660 --> 01:03:01.880
Echelon system where they

01:03:01.880 --> 01:03:03.400
scan emails and stuff like

01:03:03.400 --> 01:03:04.660
that looking for flag words

01:03:04.660 --> 01:03:06.500
for analysis.

01:03:07.200 --> 01:03:08.380
So, supposedly, a few people

01:03:08.380 --> 01:03:09.140
have actually been caught

01:03:09.140 --> 01:03:09.620
by this.

01:03:10.300 --> 01:03:12.380
I recall seeing a few

01:03:12.380 --> 01:03:14.240
articles on, I think it was

01:03:14.240 --> 01:03:15.700
in Wired, like maybe a year

01:03:15.700 --> 01:03:17.420
or so back, where Echelon

01:03:17.420 --> 01:03:18.560
actually caught someone,

01:03:19.160 --> 01:03:19.960
which, I don't know, which

01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:21.360
pretty surprised me.

01:03:23.240 --> 01:03:24.180
And, I don't know, and this

01:03:24.180 --> 01:03:25.920
is kind of, this is sort of a

01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:28.540
subcategory of the data

01:03:28.540 --> 01:03:29.200
mining idea.

01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:32.600
I remember in Jello Biafra at

01:03:32.600 --> 01:03:34.560
Hope 2000, there was this

01:03:34.560 --> 01:03:38.100
very big, this very, you know,

01:03:38.160 --> 01:03:39.040
I guess the very important

01:03:39.040 --> 01:03:40.560
meme of the day was

01:03:40.560 --> 01:03:43.320
Become the Media, which has

01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.620
gotten very popular, like

01:03:46.620 --> 01:03:47.680
even on Death Use's meme

01:03:47.680 --> 01:03:48.780
streams, you can see that

01:03:48.780 --> 01:03:50.020
around the front page.

01:03:50.920 --> 01:03:53.240
I like to think the modern

01:03:53.240 --> 01:03:55.700
version of this is Become the

01:03:55.700 --> 01:03:58.800
CIA, and there are many

01:03:58.800 --> 01:03:59.740
different websites that try

01:03:59.740 --> 01:04:00.560
and do this sort of open

01:04:00.560 --> 01:04:04.640
source intelligence thing,

01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.140
where you're basically mining

01:04:08.140 --> 01:04:10.300
all non-classified information,

01:04:10.300 --> 01:04:12.820
and you and your friends, you

01:04:12.820 --> 01:04:13.900
basically become an

01:04:13.900 --> 01:04:14.840
intelligence agency.

01:04:15.680 --> 01:04:17.320
And it's often surprising

01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:18.520
that the things that you can

01:04:18.520 --> 01:04:19.920
know that the regular media

01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:20.400
does not.

01:04:21.340 --> 01:04:23.160
Right, and that's why things

01:04:23.160 --> 01:04:23.880
like the Freedom of

01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:25.360
Information Act were just a

01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:25.980
godsend.

01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:27.600
Oh, yes, definitely.

01:04:28.680 --> 01:04:31.140
A great example of this is

01:04:31.140 --> 01:04:32.820
Russ Kicks, the

01:04:32.820 --> 01:04:33.900
memoryhole.org.

01:04:34.940 --> 01:04:38.020
I mean, I don't know if I

01:04:38.020 --> 01:04:40.020
call him a walking intelligence

01:04:40.020 --> 01:04:41.180
agency, but he certainly does

01:04:41.180 --> 01:04:42.040
have a lot of interesting

01:04:42.040 --> 01:04:43.600
stuff that otherwise would

01:04:43.600 --> 01:04:44.680
not see the light of day.

01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:47.000
Right, and I guess, you

01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:47.800
know, that goes along with

01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:49.200
another saying, or another

01:04:49.200 --> 01:04:50.380
meme, if we're going to use

01:04:50.380 --> 01:04:52.200
those words today, and that

01:04:52.200 --> 01:04:53.200
is the whole watch the

01:04:53.200 --> 01:04:53.780
watchers.

01:04:54.300 --> 01:04:54.620
Yes.

01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:55.700
You know, watch the

01:04:55.700 --> 01:04:56.620
watchers, I think, is very

01:04:56.620 --> 01:04:57.000
appropriate.

01:04:57.200 --> 01:04:58.260
Watch them as they watch

01:04:58.260 --> 01:04:58.840
unto you.

01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:01.800
So, that very much actually

01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.060
is a good, I guess, jumping

01:05:04.060 --> 01:05:05.460
off if we want to actually talk

01:05:05.460 --> 01:05:06.460
about Google mining, which

01:05:06.460 --> 01:05:09.440
ironically, being that I'm

01:05:09.440 --> 01:05:10.700
somewhat concerned about

01:05:10.700 --> 01:05:11.600
what Google's watching

01:05:11.600 --> 01:05:13.040
about me, and what Google's

01:05:13.040 --> 01:05:15.020
looking into and tracking me

01:05:15.020 --> 01:05:15.440
doing.

01:05:16.420 --> 01:05:17.620
Ironically, Google mining

01:05:17.620 --> 01:05:19.060
allows me to do the same

01:05:19.060 --> 01:05:20.000
thing back to them.

01:05:20.140 --> 01:05:20.920
Well, I'm not really doing,

01:05:21.300 --> 01:05:22.460
I guess it's not really true,

01:05:22.600 --> 01:05:23.240
because I'm not...

01:05:23.240 --> 01:05:24.200
But you can see a lot of

01:05:24.200 --> 01:05:25.100
the same things they see.

01:05:25.220 --> 01:05:25.880
Right, right.

01:05:25.900 --> 01:05:28.400
And actually, I haven't told

01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:29.740
you this yet, really, either,

01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:31.480
but I've been watching them.

01:05:32.940 --> 01:05:35.120
You can Google for sites on

01:05:35.120 --> 01:05:36.540
Google, and information on

01:05:36.540 --> 01:05:38.240
Google, so just as easily as

01:05:38.240 --> 01:05:38.920
any other site.

01:05:39.460 --> 01:05:39.580
Right.

01:05:39.580 --> 01:05:40.580
So, I have found some

01:05:40.580 --> 01:05:42.800
interesting information about

01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:44.300
Google on Google's own sites.

01:05:45.560 --> 01:05:47.280
So, they slip up and make

01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:48.020
mistakes as well.

01:05:48.100 --> 01:05:48.780
Now, I'm not going to drop

01:05:48.780 --> 01:05:49.980
some of that on the show

01:05:49.980 --> 01:05:51.860
tonight, but I have found

01:05:51.860 --> 01:05:53.080
some interesting PDFs and

01:05:53.080 --> 01:05:54.700
internal information.

01:05:54.880 --> 01:05:56.260
Now, they're usually, doesn't

01:05:56.260 --> 01:05:57.660
stay up for very long, but I

01:05:57.660 --> 01:05:58.180
have found it.

01:05:59.220 --> 01:06:00.400
But, again, this comes back

01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:01.520
to what you said earlier, and

01:06:01.520 --> 01:06:02.500
you said there were...

01:06:02.500 --> 01:06:04.620
Correct me if I'm wrong here,

01:06:04.620 --> 01:06:05.940
there's really two steps to

01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:06.680
this, if you can say that

01:06:06.680 --> 01:06:06.940
again.

01:06:07.060 --> 01:06:09.560
One is the collection of data,

01:06:10.280 --> 01:06:11.760
and step two is the

01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:13.840
subsequent analysis of said

01:06:13.840 --> 01:06:14.180
data.

01:06:14.680 --> 01:06:15.940
Yeah, which is either like

01:06:15.940 --> 01:06:17.320
this big macroscopic thing

01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:18.900
that you say, oh, person B

01:06:18.900 --> 01:06:22.200
hangs out with person A, or

01:06:22.200 --> 01:06:23.740
you look for something like

01:06:23.740 --> 01:06:24.900
very special, which would

01:06:24.900 --> 01:06:26.040
probably be the case for

01:06:26.040 --> 01:06:27.220
NSA's echelon, where they're

01:06:27.220 --> 01:06:28.140
looking, where there are

01:06:28.140 --> 01:06:29.320
like billions of emails and

01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:30.400
they don't care about, you

01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:32.440
know, 99.99999% of them.

01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:34.140
Right, and that's an example

01:06:34.140 --> 01:06:36.180
of a way that can, of a,

01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:37.280
that's an example that can

01:06:37.280 --> 01:06:38.400
be automated, looking for

01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:39.380
keywords, et cetera.

01:06:39.860 --> 01:06:41.160
Sometimes, you do have to

01:06:41.160 --> 01:06:42.580
eyeball and manually go

01:06:42.580 --> 01:06:43.680
through some of the data and

01:06:43.680 --> 01:06:44.660
some of your results at the

01:06:44.660 --> 01:06:45.540
same time as well.

01:06:45.700 --> 01:06:48.160
So, I think, actually, I

01:06:48.160 --> 01:06:49.320
think maybe we did a little

01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:50.360
bit of history, and we gave

01:06:50.360 --> 01:06:50.980
a couple examples.

01:06:51.080 --> 01:06:51.700
I think maybe we should

01:06:51.700 --> 01:06:52.600
back up and do a couple

01:06:52.600 --> 01:06:53.440
quick definitions.

01:06:53.640 --> 01:06:54.700
We've got like maybe 10,

01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:57.040
15 minutes left here, time

01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:58.380
flying like it always does on

01:06:58.380 --> 01:06:58.760
the show.

01:06:58.760 --> 01:07:02.080
So, a couple definitions

01:07:02.080 --> 01:07:04.520
actually, and, okay, we're

01:07:04.520 --> 01:07:06.380
going to, what we talked

01:07:06.380 --> 01:07:07.720
about really has been data

01:07:07.720 --> 01:07:08.740
mining in general.

01:07:09.580 --> 01:07:11.260
And what Google mining is,

01:07:11.300 --> 01:07:13.700
is data mining applied to

01:07:13.700 --> 01:07:14.440
Google.

01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.300
Google has this huge, huge

01:07:18.300 --> 01:07:19.360
amount of information.

01:07:19.940 --> 01:07:21.320
They've cached, you know,

01:07:21.580 --> 01:07:23.400
however many million, whatever

01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:24.540
it says on the front page, it

01:07:24.540 --> 01:07:25.980
tells you how many pages

01:07:25.980 --> 01:07:26.680
they've indexed.

01:07:26.680 --> 01:07:27.980
They have this huge amount

01:07:27.980 --> 01:07:28.800
of information.

01:07:29.780 --> 01:07:32.260
So, that's half the battle.

01:07:32.380 --> 01:07:34.140
Half the work is done for

01:07:34.140 --> 01:07:34.380
you.

01:07:34.560 --> 01:07:35.920
They've gone out and they've

01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:37.760
built this giant data

01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:39.520
warehouse, for lack of a

01:07:39.520 --> 01:07:39.920
better word.

01:07:40.060 --> 01:07:40.840
And actually, that's one of

01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:41.460
the terms.

01:07:42.160 --> 01:07:43.280
Data mining usually goes

01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:44.400
hand in hand with the term

01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:45.360
data warehousing.

01:07:46.260 --> 01:07:47.720
Not really in the case of

01:07:47.720 --> 01:07:48.340
Google mining.

01:07:48.740 --> 01:07:50.060
Data warehousing usually

01:07:50.060 --> 01:07:53.120
refers to transaction-based

01:07:53.120 --> 01:07:53.620
systems.

01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:54.540
And I had written an

01:07:54.540 --> 01:07:56.200
article for 2600 quite a

01:07:56.200 --> 01:07:56.800
while back about

01:07:56.800 --> 01:07:58.760
transaction-based systems.

01:07:59.600 --> 01:08:01.080
But transaction systems,

01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:02.940
and the best example of this

01:08:02.940 --> 01:08:04.160
is credit card companies

01:08:04.160 --> 01:08:07.300
and Amazon.com is the

01:08:07.300 --> 01:08:08.840
biggest, biggest example of

01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:09.100
anybody.

01:08:09.700 --> 01:08:11.240
And it's very similar, you

01:08:11.240 --> 01:08:12.740
described it earlier, as

01:08:12.740 --> 01:08:14.080
where they're tracking like

01:08:14.080 --> 01:08:15.500
trends to see people from

01:08:15.500 --> 01:08:17.680
this area also bought this.

01:08:18.080 --> 01:08:20.260
People that ordered this

01:08:20.260 --> 01:08:21.680
item also ordered these

01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:22.060
items.

01:08:22.060 --> 01:08:24.000
And by looking at the

01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:25.240
transactions, you're not

01:08:25.240 --> 01:08:26.460
necessarily looking at the

01:08:26.460 --> 01:08:28.640
history of all the items in

01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:32.580
an items database, and then a

01:08:32.580 --> 01:08:33.740
user database, and all these

01:08:33.740 --> 01:08:34.460
separate ones.

01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:35.960
You're watching the individual

01:08:35.960 --> 01:08:36.660
transaction.

01:08:36.900 --> 01:08:38.420
What other items did they view?

01:08:38.800 --> 01:08:40.540
What else did they add to their

01:08:40.540 --> 01:08:42.120
cart, but then not buy?

01:08:42.340 --> 01:08:43.520
All of these things on a

01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:45.420
transaction, user-by-user basis,

01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:46.440
are warehoused.

01:08:47.160 --> 01:08:48.080
And then data mining,

01:08:48.260 --> 01:08:49.920
generally, in a business sense,

01:08:50.300 --> 01:08:52.360
refers to then analyzing that

01:08:52.360 --> 01:08:53.760
for trends and patterns.

01:08:54.800 --> 01:08:56.380
And again, Amazon's a great

01:08:56.380 --> 01:08:58.460
example because that's how they

01:08:58.460 --> 01:08:59.840
always tell you, people in your

01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:01.020
area also bought this.

01:09:01.180 --> 01:09:03.400
People who bought this DVD movie

01:09:03.400 --> 01:09:05.400
also bought this DVD movie.

01:09:05.400 --> 01:09:06.860
If you like that book, you'll

01:09:06.860 --> 01:09:08.040
also like this book.

01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:09.980
That's how Amazon does it.

01:09:10.040 --> 01:09:11.420
Amazon is like the biggest

01:09:11.420 --> 01:09:13.260
company that really, really does

01:09:13.260 --> 01:09:13.560
that.

01:09:15.300 --> 01:09:16.600
And credit card companies do it

01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:18.460
as well for a little bit more

01:09:18.460 --> 01:09:19.740
nefarious purposes for

01:09:19.740 --> 01:09:20.240
advertising.

01:09:20.440 --> 01:09:22.520
They try to find trends in what

01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:23.740
you buy and what stores you

01:09:23.740 --> 01:09:26.060
shop at, and they data mine that

01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:28.920
and sell that list of data mined

01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.200
custom targeted marketing to

01:09:31.200 --> 01:09:31.840
different companies.

01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:33.100
If they find that you do a lot

01:09:33.100 --> 01:09:34.380
of shopping at Circuit City, for

01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:37.000
example, they'll send you in a

01:09:37.000 --> 01:09:38.640
database over to Best Buy to try

01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:39.960
to steal you away as a customer

01:09:39.960 --> 01:09:41.040
and make you go over there.

01:09:41.040 --> 01:09:43.080
They'll send you, sell your

01:09:43.080 --> 01:09:44.600
information to Best Buy.

01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:45.940
Best Buy will then send you

01:09:45.940 --> 01:09:47.180
advertising trying to steal you

01:09:47.180 --> 01:09:48.980
away as a customer, for example.

01:09:50.120 --> 01:09:51.780
So that's generally in a business

01:09:51.780 --> 01:09:53.160
environment what data warehousing

01:09:53.160 --> 01:09:54.540
and data mining is used for.

01:09:54.740 --> 01:09:57.600
But again, it's not exactly what

01:09:57.600 --> 01:09:59.940
we're doing with Google mining.

01:10:00.040 --> 01:10:00.560
Am I correct?

01:10:00.780 --> 01:10:01.500
Is that correct?

01:10:02.320 --> 01:10:03.680
Usually with Google mining, we're

01:10:03.680 --> 01:10:04.820
doing the other analysis where

01:10:04.820 --> 01:10:07.300
you're basically panning for gold.

01:10:07.440 --> 01:10:09.180
Like most of the data, the majority

01:10:09.180 --> 01:10:10.720
of the stuff Google has isn't

01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:15.460
terribly interesting, but by using

01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:18.400
some clever parameters, you can go

01:10:18.400 --> 01:10:19.920
down to the really nice bits

01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:20.260
quickly.

01:10:20.780 --> 01:10:21.240
Right.

01:10:21.300 --> 01:10:22.120
And when you say clever

01:10:22.120 --> 01:10:24.220
parameters, there is absolutely a

01:10:24.220 --> 01:10:25.320
relationship between the

01:10:25.320 --> 01:10:27.760
traditional term, quote, Google

01:10:27.760 --> 01:10:29.600
hacking, end quote.

01:10:30.100 --> 01:10:32.420
So Google hacking is not necessarily

01:10:32.420 --> 01:10:34.120
equal to Google mining.

01:10:34.820 --> 01:10:37.980
Google mining is that Google has done

01:10:37.980 --> 01:10:38.760
the data collection.

01:10:40.160 --> 01:10:42.380
You are going to do the analysis

01:10:42.380 --> 01:10:43.320
of that data.

01:10:43.820 --> 01:10:45.280
And if you need to use Google

01:10:45.280 --> 01:10:48.080
hacking techniques to do it, so be

01:10:48.080 --> 01:10:48.260
it.

01:10:48.340 --> 01:10:49.820
But that's kind of the process.

01:10:50.300 --> 01:10:51.780
And I know that you even take this

01:10:51.780 --> 01:10:52.560
a step further.

01:10:52.740 --> 01:10:54.120
And this is something I would like

01:10:54.120 --> 01:10:55.320
you to talk about a little bit.

01:10:56.480 --> 01:10:59.140
And that is like for well, let me

01:10:59.140 --> 01:11:00.740
say like one of the examples I made

01:11:00.740 --> 01:11:01.920
up in the forums to try to get

01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:03.520
people interested in this is the

01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:04.380
Bell South project.

01:11:04.380 --> 01:11:06.900
And I basically, I was, it's a very

01:11:06.900 --> 01:11:08.900
simple and a very basic project for

01:11:08.900 --> 01:11:09.980
data, for Google mining.

01:11:10.220 --> 01:11:11.900
Go out there and find as much stuff

01:11:11.900 --> 01:11:13.420
as you can about Bell South.

01:11:13.660 --> 01:11:14.660
Let's gather it.

01:11:14.720 --> 01:11:15.520
Let's get it together.

01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:18.120
Because it's doing a little bit, it's

01:11:18.120 --> 01:11:19.580
not quite doing the analysis yet.

01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:21.380
It's just mostly siphoning out all,

01:11:21.460 --> 01:11:22.780
like you said, Google's got all this

01:11:22.780 --> 01:11:23.080
garbage.

01:11:23.200 --> 01:11:24.360
A lot of it's uninteresting.

01:11:24.820 --> 01:11:26.580
Let's get the interesting part for at

01:11:26.580 --> 01:11:27.720
least this particular project.

01:11:28.040 --> 01:11:29.160
Let's get a bunch of stuff from

01:11:29.160 --> 01:11:29.560
Bell South.

01:11:29.660 --> 01:11:31.280
Download all the PDFs you can find,

01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:33.620
graphics you can find, document files,

01:11:33.620 --> 01:11:34.760
spreadsheets, whatever.

01:11:35.220 --> 01:11:36.760
Let's gather them all in a central

01:11:36.760 --> 01:11:37.280
location.

01:11:38.200 --> 01:11:40.140
Stage two is the analysis part,

01:11:40.220 --> 01:11:42.560
which is what you do a lot of.

01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:44.020
And you showed some examples of this

01:11:44.020 --> 01:11:45.460
in your interzone presentation.

01:11:46.420 --> 01:11:48.160
And that is, for example, writing

01:11:48.160 --> 01:11:50.600
scripts or, or find, there are scripts

01:11:50.600 --> 01:11:51.760
out there already you might find.

01:11:52.280 --> 01:11:54.040
For example, to look through metadata

01:11:54.040 --> 01:11:57.920
of office things, that kind of stuff.

01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:00.380
And what is some of the stuff that

01:12:00.380 --> 01:12:02.760
you have found or some good stories?

01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:04.380
I know you mentioned some at interzone.

01:12:05.180 --> 01:12:06.780
And maybe, let's mention, why don't you

01:12:06.780 --> 01:12:07.760
mention your site, first of all,

01:12:07.780 --> 01:12:09.600
where people can download your...

01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:10.940
Oh, okay.

01:12:11.420 --> 01:12:12.240
Well, let's see.

01:12:12.820 --> 01:12:15.520
The, as there was mentioned, the Google,

01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:17.760
I mean, the data mining presentation at

01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:18.700
interzone.

01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:20.960
You can download that off my site at

01:12:20.960 --> 01:12:21.980
romanpoet.org.

01:12:22.480 --> 01:12:23.920
It's linked right off the front page.

01:12:24.040 --> 01:12:25.260
It's pretty straightforward.

01:12:25.260 --> 01:12:27.860
Let's see.

01:12:28.140 --> 01:12:31.300
Oh, as far as interesting things

01:12:31.300 --> 01:12:34.720
that were found, most of the sort of work

01:12:34.720 --> 01:12:38.480
that I've been doing, I can't talk about

01:12:38.480 --> 01:12:39.740
things I personally have found.

01:12:40.740 --> 01:12:42.780
However, I can tell you some other

01:12:42.780 --> 01:12:44.680
related projects and some of the stuff

01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:45.940
that they found that were interesting.

01:12:45.940 --> 01:12:50.880
For example, actually, one of my favorite

01:12:50.880 --> 01:12:54.620
ones was analyzing Microsoft Word documents

01:12:54.620 --> 01:12:57.820
released from the Blair government in the UK.

01:12:58.840 --> 01:13:03.500
And it was found that by analyzing the revision

01:13:03.500 --> 01:13:05.420
log of the Microsoft Word document,

01:13:06.160 --> 01:13:08.800
you were able to show that it was plagiarized.

01:13:09.120 --> 01:13:10.320
And the only reason it was plagiarized,

01:13:10.320 --> 01:13:15.420
through it, you were able to show that who edited

01:13:15.420 --> 01:13:18.660
what bits here and who changed what words

01:13:18.660 --> 01:13:19.200
here and there.

01:13:19.940 --> 01:13:22.400
And this was very interesting.

01:13:22.600 --> 01:13:25.200
Like, for example, you could find out

01:13:25.200 --> 01:13:27.740
which government official changed the word

01:13:27.740 --> 01:13:30.360
freedom fighter to terrorist and stuff like that.

01:13:32.140 --> 01:13:33.940
And let's see.

01:13:34.080 --> 01:13:39.000
This entire thing is covered on computerbitesman.com.

01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:42.820
I think his name was Richard Smith, I think,

01:13:43.200 --> 01:13:45.620
the person who did all this analysis.

01:13:46.680 --> 01:13:48.540
Right, and that's a great example.

01:13:48.780 --> 01:13:49.780
And how embarrassing.

01:13:50.940 --> 01:13:52.300
How incredibly embarrassing.

01:13:52.540 --> 01:13:56.520
And that's just, any of the office documents,

01:13:56.800 --> 01:13:59.260
I'm sure, are ripe with that kind of information.

01:13:59.440 --> 01:14:00.240
As a matter of fact,

01:14:00.620 --> 01:14:01.720
as a matter of fact,

01:14:02.440 --> 01:14:04.100
if I remember correctly, Virgil,

01:14:04.420 --> 01:14:06.780
I think I remember sending you

01:14:06.780 --> 01:14:08.680
some very interesting metadata from

01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:11.180
your little incident.

01:14:11.300 --> 01:14:12.580
I don't know if we're allowed to talk about that.

01:14:12.620 --> 01:14:13.300
Do you remember that?

01:14:13.860 --> 01:14:14.600
Yes, I do.

01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:16.480
I think I found something very similar

01:14:16.480 --> 01:14:18.120
that I sent to you all

01:14:18.120 --> 01:14:19.460
back when your case was going on

01:14:19.460 --> 01:14:21.480
that I don't know if it helped or did anything,

01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:23.740
but that's exactly what I did,

01:14:23.780 --> 01:14:24.720
exactly what happened.

01:14:25.240 --> 01:14:26.940
I didn't call it or have any idea

01:14:26.940 --> 01:14:28.820
of the concept of data mining at the time,

01:14:28.820 --> 01:14:32.200
but it is kind of a neat application,

01:14:32.340 --> 01:14:33.480
kind of a funny story, I guess.

01:14:35.020 --> 01:14:37.420
But it's not only office documents

01:14:37.420 --> 01:14:38.980
that you can find this kind of stuff in.

01:14:39.060 --> 01:14:41.200
Office just is well known

01:14:41.200 --> 01:14:42.560
for keeping a lot of metadata,

01:14:43.140 --> 01:14:44.000
tracking the last,

01:14:44.060 --> 01:14:45.380
I think it's 10 by default,

01:14:45.560 --> 01:14:48.220
10 changes that were made,

01:14:48.960 --> 01:14:50.540
revisions, I think is the term they use.

01:14:50.880 --> 01:14:52.360
But it also keeps a lot of other stuff,

01:14:52.520 --> 01:14:53.760
author names.

01:14:54.500 --> 01:14:55.900
If you turn on the,

01:14:55.900 --> 01:14:58.560
the, oh man, what's the term?

01:14:58.560 --> 01:14:59.080
Track changes function.

01:14:59.560 --> 01:15:00.540
Yeah, what's the term?

01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:02.320
Collaborative functions,

01:15:02.420 --> 01:15:03.160
that's what I was looking for,

01:15:03.220 --> 01:15:04.680
the collaboration tools and whatnot.

01:15:05.360 --> 01:15:07.140
Then yeah, it has a lot of functions in there

01:15:07.140 --> 01:15:08.980
that could also have that information.

01:15:09.480 --> 01:15:11.020
So that's the kind of stuff that,

01:15:11.160 --> 01:15:12.400
that's the kind of things you'll find out

01:15:12.400 --> 01:15:14.600
when you start doing the analysis phase of things.

01:15:15.360 --> 01:15:16.640
So phase one, again,

01:15:16.780 --> 01:15:18.640
and let's just go back to the Bell South project

01:15:18.640 --> 01:15:20.180
because it's a very simple example.

01:15:20.940 --> 01:15:24.240
It is collecting a bunch of data,

01:15:24.380 --> 01:15:25.600
whatever that data happens to be,

01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:27.120
and I don't know if you've had time

01:15:27.120 --> 01:15:28.320
to look at our Bell South,

01:15:28.440 --> 01:15:30.400
but there were some other surprising things

01:15:30.400 --> 01:15:31.720
that I wasn't expecting to see.

01:15:31.840 --> 01:15:33.760
Like I think Natus and some other people

01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:35.920
also found some scripts,

01:15:36.300 --> 01:15:38.440
some shell scripts with plain text passwords

01:15:38.440 --> 01:15:39.520
and usernames on them.

01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:42.260
I didn't expect some stuff to be that...

01:15:42.260 --> 01:15:43.140
For Bell South.

01:15:43.340 --> 01:15:44.720
For Bell South, yeah.

01:15:45.340 --> 01:15:46.800
And I didn't expect something to be

01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:48.080
that much out in the open,

01:15:48.160 --> 01:15:49.300
but it certainly was.

01:15:50.240 --> 01:15:51.400
So that was kind of funny

01:15:51.400 --> 01:15:52.780
that you find something interesting

01:15:52.780 --> 01:15:55.200
in the actual collection part of the process

01:15:55.200 --> 01:15:57.280
just by kind of checking and nosing around

01:15:57.280 --> 01:15:58.900
doing some Google hacking.

01:16:00.140 --> 01:16:02.600
So the second phase is

01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:04.580
once we get a lot of this interesting stuff

01:16:04.580 --> 01:16:05.460
from Bell South,

01:16:05.780 --> 01:16:07.700
then it's doing the analysis and collecting it.

01:16:07.780 --> 01:16:08.340
And I know,

01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:10.120
and I don't want to put you on the spot,

01:16:10.180 --> 01:16:11.000
I don't know if you know them offhand,

01:16:11.060 --> 01:16:12.360
but I think you mentioned some tools.

01:16:12.520 --> 01:16:14.220
Aren't there tools that will parse through,

01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:15.060
for example,

01:16:15.180 --> 01:16:17.800
metadata from Microsoft Word documents

01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:18.460
and pull it out

01:16:18.460 --> 01:16:19.300
and put it into a database?

01:16:19.300 --> 01:16:20.920
There are some basic tools.

01:16:21.160 --> 01:16:23.000
There is no definitive God tool.

01:16:23.540 --> 01:16:24.420
But there are a few basic things.

01:16:24.620 --> 01:16:25.060
But I don't know.

01:16:25.260 --> 01:16:26.500
I don't want to emphasize

01:16:26.500 --> 01:16:27.600
the metadata element.

01:16:27.720 --> 01:16:28.180
I must admit,

01:16:28.280 --> 01:16:30.380
the metadata is one of the more fun things

01:16:30.380 --> 01:16:32.400
that you can mine for

01:16:32.400 --> 01:16:33.840
in a big collection of documents

01:16:33.840 --> 01:16:35.160
because usually it's something

01:16:35.160 --> 01:16:36.520
people don't know is online.

01:16:36.860 --> 01:16:38.280
But usually you don't even have to do that.

01:16:38.480 --> 01:16:40.360
I mean, let's see.

01:16:40.440 --> 01:16:41.340
Oh, a classic example.

01:16:41.660 --> 01:16:42.700
Like if you downloaded

01:16:42.700 --> 01:16:47.780
like every file ending in .sh

01:16:47.780 --> 01:16:48.800
from Belfelf.net

01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:50.400
and then just grab the password.

01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:51.880
I mean, you might find something.

01:16:52.040 --> 01:16:52.260
Exactly.

01:16:52.260 --> 01:16:53.480
I mean, it's a primary one you can find.

01:16:53.600 --> 01:16:53.920
Great.

01:16:54.040 --> 01:16:54.580
Yeah, absolutely.

01:16:54.700 --> 01:16:55.400
A great example.

01:16:55.720 --> 01:16:58.580
And didn't you also tell us about one

01:16:58.580 --> 01:17:00.560
where the PDF file,

01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:03.400
my terminology is probably way off here,

01:17:03.440 --> 01:17:04.040
so correct me,

01:17:04.160 --> 01:17:06.000
but something about things

01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:08.000
were blocked out,

01:17:08.100 --> 01:17:08.980
like censored out.

01:17:09.500 --> 01:17:10.040
Oh, yeah.

01:17:10.080 --> 01:17:10.780
Well, I don't know.

01:17:11.140 --> 01:17:12.500
That's probably data mining,

01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:13.640
but it is interesting.

01:17:14.640 --> 01:17:15.300
I don't know.

01:17:18.900 --> 01:17:19.380
Occasionally,

01:17:19.460 --> 01:17:20.620
like this is most common

01:17:20.620 --> 01:17:22.660
in the Freedom of Information at Request,

01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:24.140
very often the PDF documents

01:17:24.140 --> 01:17:25.300
will be blotted out.

01:17:26.620 --> 01:17:30.160
And there will be like little black rectangles

01:17:30.160 --> 01:17:31.620
over the good bits.

01:17:31.620 --> 01:17:36.620
And contrary to popular belief,

01:17:36.920 --> 01:17:38.900
the PDF is actually a multi-layered document.

01:17:38.900 --> 01:17:41.900
So underneath that black rectangle,

01:17:42.900 --> 01:17:44.360
the text is still there.

01:17:44.700 --> 01:17:46.420
So if you understand a little bit

01:17:46.420 --> 01:17:47.580
about the PDF format,

01:17:47.920 --> 01:17:51.540
you can automatically remove those black squares

01:17:51.540 --> 01:17:53.240
or replace all black squares

01:17:53.240 --> 01:17:54.120
with yellow highlighting

01:17:54.120 --> 01:17:55.580
and stuff like that.

01:17:55.780 --> 01:17:56.460
Which is great.

01:17:56.640 --> 01:17:57.600
The highlighting is funny.

01:17:57.600 --> 01:17:59.680
And one more example

01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:01.300
is the EXIF information.

01:18:01.440 --> 01:18:02.460
I understand you don't want to focus

01:18:02.460 --> 01:18:02.980
on the metadata,

01:18:03.220 --> 01:18:04.720
but they're always similar,

01:18:04.900 --> 01:18:06.880
like the EXIF information

01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:08.280
and image files and whatnot.

01:18:08.600 --> 01:18:09.220
And who was it?

01:18:09.260 --> 01:18:10.680
The girl from Tech TV?

01:18:10.860 --> 01:18:11.560
Oh, okay.

01:18:11.900 --> 01:18:12.680
Kat Schwartz.

01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:13.200
Yes.

01:18:13.460 --> 01:18:17.120
If you just do a Google for Kat Schwartz,

01:18:17.380 --> 01:18:19.400
everything becomes pretty clear.

01:18:20.520 --> 01:18:22.460
Basically, she's one of the

01:18:22.460 --> 01:18:24.300
Tech TV eye candy babes.

01:18:24.300 --> 01:18:29.060
And due to some metadata in the JPEG

01:18:29.060 --> 01:18:32.140
and the way JPEG is done in Photoshop,

01:18:32.920 --> 01:18:34.680
you're able to get some very nice

01:18:34.680 --> 01:18:35.220
nudie pictures

01:18:35.220 --> 01:18:37.340
that were not intended to be online.

01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:38.280
Yeah.

01:18:38.280 --> 01:18:41.180
And there was much rejoicing on the internet.

01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:43.420
Yeah, very much so.

01:18:43.480 --> 01:18:44.700
Of course, I don't get Tech TV,

01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:47.280
so to me it was just another naked chick.

01:18:47.380 --> 01:18:48.220
But whatever, you know.

01:18:48.220 --> 01:18:49.840
All right.

01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:52.080
Well, and, you know, again,

01:18:52.780 --> 01:18:54.520
like Virgil was saying,

01:18:54.580 --> 01:18:56.380
it's not all about the metadata at all.

01:18:56.960 --> 01:18:58.160
It's about collecting it

01:18:58.160 --> 01:19:00.260
and looking for patterns of any kind.

01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:01.960
They could be as simple as,

01:19:02.020 --> 01:19:03.220
maybe you'll notice that

01:19:03.220 --> 01:19:05.860
from 2000 to 2003,

01:19:06.420 --> 01:19:07.440
they were using a lot of

01:19:07.440 --> 01:19:08.680
Microsoft Word documents,

01:19:08.800 --> 01:19:10.320
and then all of a sudden in 2004,

01:19:10.480 --> 01:19:11.740
they switched to OpenOffice.

01:19:11.740 --> 01:19:11.980
PDF.

01:19:12.480 --> 01:19:13.860
Something as simple as that

01:19:13.860 --> 01:19:14.720
is very interesting

01:19:14.720 --> 01:19:17.120
and can tell you a lot about the company

01:19:17.120 --> 01:19:17.940
and what they're choosing.

01:19:17.940 --> 01:19:18.600
Actually, I have interest,

01:19:18.740 --> 01:19:19.880
the Blair government

01:19:19.880 --> 01:19:21.360
no longer publishes .docs,

01:19:21.380 --> 01:19:21.800
if you look.

01:19:22.120 --> 01:19:22.300
Hmm.

01:19:22.740 --> 01:19:23.040
Well, I guess.

01:19:23.140 --> 01:19:25.780
Like, right after this incident,

01:19:25.900 --> 01:19:27.040
they no longer publish things

01:19:27.040 --> 01:19:27.880
in .doc format.

01:19:28.060 --> 01:19:28.380
I see.

01:19:28.460 --> 01:19:28.840
There you go.

01:19:28.900 --> 01:19:29.500
It's interesting.

01:19:29.820 --> 01:19:31.220
They learned their lesson, I guess.

01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:32.120
Apparently.

01:19:33.160 --> 01:19:33.520
All right.

01:19:33.560 --> 01:19:35.300
Well, we're going to wrap it up here.

01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:35.800
Did you have,

01:19:35.840 --> 01:19:37.320
we've got a couple minutes here,

01:19:37.740 --> 01:19:38.440
a few minutes,

01:19:38.440 --> 01:19:39.040
if there's anything

01:19:39.040 --> 01:19:40.200
you wanted to talk about.

01:19:41.060 --> 01:19:41.660
Because I know,

01:19:41.720 --> 01:19:42.300
the other thing is,

01:19:42.400 --> 01:19:44.480
I'm trying to make,

01:19:44.520 --> 01:19:47.120
like, very simple projects.

01:19:47.120 --> 01:19:48.900
And I know you go a little bit more in depth

01:19:48.900 --> 01:19:49.960
than I do, quite honestly.

01:19:50.080 --> 01:19:51.280
And I know that your targets

01:19:51.280 --> 01:19:53.480
that you find interesting

01:19:53.480 --> 01:19:54.580
are a little bit different

01:19:54.580 --> 01:19:55.580
than the stuff I am.

01:19:55.620 --> 01:19:56.820
I'm kind of looking for

01:19:56.820 --> 01:19:59.260
more things like passwords and stuff

01:19:59.260 --> 01:20:01.000
as far as the way I'm applying

01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:02.080
Google mining.

01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:04.660
And you've got a lot more interesting,

01:20:06.100 --> 01:20:08.060
you're finding a lot more surprising data.

01:20:08.300 --> 01:20:10.380
I guess I'm finding a lot more funny data.

01:20:10.380 --> 01:20:12.140
But you're doing, like,

01:20:12.220 --> 01:20:12.980
some really,

01:20:13.280 --> 01:20:16.040
some detailed statistical analysis.

01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:19.300
I don't know if you want to mention this on the air.

01:20:19.360 --> 01:20:20.600
I have it in the show notes there.

01:20:21.340 --> 01:20:23.160
But your other published project

01:20:23.160 --> 01:20:24.560
that you did recently.

01:20:25.840 --> 01:20:26.340
Oh, yeah.

01:20:26.440 --> 01:20:27.200
I can talk about that.

01:20:27.440 --> 01:20:27.780
I didn't know.

01:20:27.840 --> 01:20:28.340
Let's see.

01:20:28.520 --> 01:20:30.440
There was something I did pretty recently.

01:20:31.140 --> 01:20:33.140
Well, we don't know about public records,

01:20:33.220 --> 01:20:34.900
and public records are slowly being put online.

01:20:34.900 --> 01:20:37.680
I did an analysis

01:20:37.680 --> 01:20:40.860
basically using only shell scripts

01:20:40.860 --> 01:20:44.080
and a little awk and a little said here and there

01:20:44.080 --> 01:20:48.200
to derive mother's maiden names

01:20:48.200 --> 01:20:50.540
by using a combination of birth records

01:20:50.540 --> 01:20:51.240
and marriage records.

01:20:51.700 --> 01:20:54.820
And I did this across the entire state of Texas

01:20:54.820 --> 01:20:59.300
by combining state-level marriage records

01:20:59.300 --> 01:21:00.740
and birth records from the counties

01:21:00.740 --> 01:21:03.160
and birth records from various other places,

01:21:03.280 --> 01:21:04.360
mostly genealogy sites.

01:21:04.360 --> 01:21:07.760
And I ended up being able to derive,

01:21:09.140 --> 01:21:11.360
like, with almost 100% certainty,

01:21:12.280 --> 01:21:13.260
mother's maiden names

01:21:13.260 --> 01:21:16.220
for about 4 million Texans.

01:21:16.720 --> 01:21:17.460
It was very pleasant.

01:21:17.880 --> 01:21:21.060
Yeah, that's really amazing stuff, man.

01:21:21.120 --> 01:21:22.760
That's really kudos

01:21:22.760 --> 01:21:24.360
because that is definitely something

01:21:24.360 --> 01:21:26.120
that took time and research

01:21:26.120 --> 01:21:27.920
and some analysis.

01:21:28.360 --> 01:21:32.160
And that information is also on Roman Poet?

01:21:32.600 --> 01:21:33.140
Yes, yes.

01:21:33.140 --> 01:21:34.980
You can read the full paper.

01:21:35.200 --> 01:21:36.600
I actually should be publishing

01:21:36.600 --> 01:21:39.220
the data sets I used

01:21:39.220 --> 01:21:41.360
probably within the next few weeks as well.

01:21:41.740 --> 01:21:43.540
So if you want to see the data sets

01:21:43.540 --> 01:21:45.460
that I used to compute all this,

01:21:45.660 --> 01:21:47.820
you can get that pretty shortly as well.

01:21:47.820 --> 01:21:51.460
Well, I have to hesitate at the front page

01:21:51.460 --> 01:21:52.260
for a second anyway

01:21:52.260 --> 01:21:53.860
and look at the chick with the Mac.

01:21:54.500 --> 01:21:54.860
Yes.

01:21:56.300 --> 01:21:57.120
She's always nice.

01:21:57.280 --> 01:21:58.640
I love that picture.

01:21:58.800 --> 01:22:00.160
Oh, man, that's great.

01:22:00.960 --> 01:22:03.260
So that's our segue to end the show there.

01:22:03.280 --> 01:22:05.500
We'll close out on the hot chick picture, I guess.

01:22:05.500 --> 01:22:09.540
And head into our site of the week.

01:22:09.700 --> 01:22:12.160
And actually, I think you had a site for this week, right?

01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:13.900
Yes, there is a site of the week.

01:22:14.180 --> 01:22:16.060
This is along the same theme

01:22:16.060 --> 01:22:18.480
of the Become the CIA theme.

01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:20.040
There's one particular site

01:22:20.040 --> 01:22:21.720
that I think is probably doing the most,

01:22:22.180 --> 01:22:25.400
probably the most interesting work of this nature.

01:22:25.400 --> 01:22:30.140
And this is NNDB.com, just NNDB.com.

01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:32.380
And it says on the front page,

01:22:33.160 --> 01:22:35.220
NNDB is an intelligence aggregator

01:22:35.220 --> 01:22:36.880
that tracks the activities of people

01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:38.460
that we have determined to be noteworthy.

01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:41.100
Superficially, it seems like a who-who's database

01:22:41.100 --> 01:22:43.420
where a person's curriculum vitae is available.

01:22:44.640 --> 01:22:46.780
But mostly it exists to document

01:22:46.780 --> 01:22:47.900
the connections between people,

01:22:48.040 --> 01:22:49.220
many which are not always obvious.

01:22:49.620 --> 01:22:51.780
A person's otherwise inexplicable behavior

01:22:51.780 --> 01:22:54.140
is often understood by examining the crowd

01:22:54.140 --> 01:22:55.900
a person has been hanging out with.

01:22:57.080 --> 01:22:59.340
And that's basically the whole thesis.

01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:02.520
The idea is that it spies on famous people

01:23:02.520 --> 01:23:05.320
and it determines who their friends are

01:23:05.320 --> 01:23:06.460
and who they contribute to.

01:23:06.740 --> 01:23:09.180
And you can see all that right for the taking.

01:23:10.660 --> 01:23:13.540
I think this is probably one of the classic examples

01:23:13.540 --> 01:23:15.540
of open source intelligence

01:23:15.540 --> 01:23:20.640
and taking the CIA into your own hands, I guess.

01:23:21.180 --> 01:23:23.240
Or taking the job of the CIA into your own hands.

01:23:23.240 --> 01:23:26.660
All right, and that's NNDB.com.

01:23:26.720 --> 01:23:27.780
And I have been there myself

01:23:27.780 --> 01:23:29.940
and I've seen a couple interesting things.

01:23:30.020 --> 01:23:30.620
Some surprising...

01:23:31.400 --> 01:23:32.660
I didn't know they were friends

01:23:32.660 --> 01:23:35.180
or I didn't know they had anything in common

01:23:35.180 --> 01:23:35.980
or any relationship.

01:23:36.340 --> 01:23:38.540
So that is a good site.

01:23:39.180 --> 01:23:40.280
Shouts for this week.

01:23:41.180 --> 01:23:43.600
I'll go ahead and give you a second

01:23:43.600 --> 01:23:44.680
to think if there's any shouts.

01:23:45.220 --> 01:23:46.620
My shouts go to DC404,

01:23:47.420 --> 01:23:49.320
something probably close to you there.

01:23:49.320 --> 01:23:52.480
Shouts to Tabiz and to Natus

01:23:52.480 --> 01:23:54.060
and to CypherX,

01:23:54.200 --> 01:23:56.740
who's been helping me out with a lot of stuff lately.

01:23:56.860 --> 01:23:57.540
There's some graphics.

01:23:58.020 --> 01:24:00.400
And also Natus as well.

01:24:00.440 --> 01:24:02.840
Like I said, Natus is doing a lot of cool stuff

01:24:02.840 --> 01:24:05.200
and working on some projects.

01:24:05.620 --> 01:24:07.060
And he's doing a great job, of course,

01:24:07.100 --> 01:24:07.920
with Old School Freak.

01:24:08.240 --> 01:24:10.300
The site's been up and running very well for a while.

01:24:10.520 --> 01:24:12.200
So shouts to them.

01:24:12.380 --> 01:24:13.020
And how about you?

01:24:13.020 --> 01:24:17.960
Do you agree to Greg and Strick at Yak, please?

01:24:18.460 --> 01:24:21.420
Greg and Strick at Yak.net, right?

01:24:21.540 --> 01:24:22.040
Or Yak.org.

01:24:22.040 --> 01:24:23.040
Yak.net.

01:24:23.160 --> 01:24:23.900
Go check that out.

01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:27.280
If you want to email us about anything on the show

01:24:27.280 --> 01:24:29.480
to yell at us, disagree with us,

01:24:29.580 --> 01:24:31.160
add to us, give us more information,

01:24:31.360 --> 01:24:35.020
the email address is radio at binrev.com.

01:24:35.020 --> 01:24:40.680
Our closing music this week is from Pete Miser.

01:24:41.480 --> 01:24:43.440
And it's called Scent of a Robot.

01:24:43.800 --> 01:24:45.760
And I actually came across this

01:24:45.760 --> 01:24:47.220
because I found a video of it

01:24:47.220 --> 01:24:48.980
and liked the song,

01:24:49.080 --> 01:24:50.140
went out and found the song.

01:24:50.280 --> 01:24:51.240
It is Scent of a Robot.

01:24:51.640 --> 01:24:53.160
I think this is one of the cooler songs

01:24:53.160 --> 01:24:54.400
I've heard in a long time.

01:24:54.480 --> 01:24:55.780
Very unique lyrically.

01:24:56.680 --> 01:24:58.120
So check this out.

01:24:58.580 --> 01:25:01.520
And Virgil, thank you for being on the show.

01:25:02.060 --> 01:25:03.960
And I do sincerely want to try to get you

01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:06.200
on another show as soon as we can work something out.

01:25:06.280 --> 01:25:09.320
I know our schedules are kind of tough sometimes,

01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:11.360
but definitely want to try to get you on the show.

01:25:11.460 --> 01:25:13.300
Maybe we will go into another show about memes.

01:25:13.940 --> 01:25:14.920
That sounds good to me.

01:25:15.300 --> 01:25:15.660
Great.

01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:17.240
Well, thank you again for being on it.

01:25:17.420 --> 01:25:19.940
And I think we're going to close it up this week

01:25:19.940 --> 01:25:23.040
and tell everybody that we will see them again next week.

01:25:23.380 --> 01:25:24.220
Same hack time.

01:25:24.740 --> 01:25:25.600
Same hack channel.

01:25:33.960 --> 01:25:49.420
More human than human, I can do it all.

01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:52.120
French kiss, smoke a spliff, give a shit about baseball.

01:25:52.300 --> 01:25:54.360
I'll come home at night to my robot wife,

01:25:54.580 --> 01:25:56.700
drink a light beer and watch me a DVD.

01:25:56.960 --> 01:25:57.740
I look good.

01:25:57.900 --> 01:25:58.860
You can't even tell.

01:25:58.940 --> 01:25:59.900
They have me fooled.

01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:02.220
Implanting memories of puberty and preschool.

01:26:02.220 --> 01:26:05.300
Girls that broke my heart at dark nights in the summer.

01:26:05.540 --> 01:26:07.320
Just a string of primary numbers.

01:26:07.720 --> 01:26:09.680
Didn't bother me none before I knew.

01:26:09.800 --> 01:26:10.420
I'm a slave.

01:26:10.500 --> 01:26:10.940
It's okay.

01:26:11.040 --> 01:26:12.100
I got things to do.

01:26:12.180 --> 01:26:13.480
But then I'm sitting there at work

01:26:13.480 --> 01:26:14.640
when my email blinks.

01:26:14.700 --> 01:26:15.980
And it's from the big boss.

01:26:16.060 --> 01:26:17.100
But it wasn't for me.

01:26:17.180 --> 01:26:19.720
It's just another memo about our robot line.

01:26:19.880 --> 01:26:22.240
See, it's that schematics detail on the robot's mind.

01:26:22.280 --> 01:26:23.880
And I find that when I look close,

01:26:23.880 --> 01:26:27.000
all I see is a blueprint to manufacture me.

01:26:27.200 --> 01:26:28.220
I'm a robot.

01:26:28.340 --> 01:26:30.620
Program not to know that I'm a robot.

01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:34.900
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul.

01:26:35.020 --> 01:26:37.480
Now I'm running around trying to forget what I know.

01:26:37.540 --> 01:26:38.220
I'm a robot.

01:26:38.480 --> 01:26:40.700
Program not to know that I'm a robot.

01:26:40.700 --> 01:26:45.040
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul.

01:26:45.120 --> 01:26:47.760
Now I'm running around trying to forget what I know.

01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:49.900
Mad, stunned, a little bit hurt.

01:26:50.060 --> 01:26:52.880
How many people at work know what I just found out?

01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:55.060
Round bout noon my boss calls.

01:26:55.240 --> 01:26:58.940
Wants to see me in his office but I stall for as long as I can.

01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:02.920
But the man comes down on my floor before I throw a tantrum.

01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:03.780
I can't run.

01:27:03.780 --> 01:27:06.260
So I sit there with his hand on my shoulder saying,

01:27:06.380 --> 01:27:08.040
Listen Pete, you've been a real soldier.

01:27:08.280 --> 01:27:10.480
Said he was sorry that I saw that email.

01:27:10.600 --> 01:27:12.780
And he was hoping that I wouldn't quit the firm.

01:27:13.140 --> 01:27:15.560
He told me that I was a joy to work with.

01:27:15.620 --> 01:27:17.840
And brown nose me so hard I started to squirm.

01:27:17.960 --> 01:27:20.620
Concerned looks on the faces of the people I work with.

01:27:20.680 --> 01:27:22.960
And lots of small talk with a robot issue skirt.

01:27:23.000 --> 01:27:25.500
Made me nervous so I rolled up and I asked my boss

01:27:25.500 --> 01:27:27.400
if I could have the afternoon off.

01:27:28.020 --> 01:27:28.860
I'm a robot.

01:27:28.980 --> 01:27:31.260
Program not to know that I'm a robot.

01:27:31.260 --> 01:27:35.560
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul.

01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:38.140
Now I'm running around trying to forget what I know.

01:27:38.200 --> 01:27:38.960
I'm a robot.

01:27:39.080 --> 01:27:41.360
Program not to know that I'm a robot.

01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:45.680
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul.

01:27:45.760 --> 01:27:48.360
Now I'm running around trying to forget what I know.

01:27:48.900 --> 01:27:49.700
Eat later.

01:27:51.160 --> 01:27:53.300
Cats guessing and wondering what's next.

01:27:53.300 --> 01:28:00.320
Lucky for me it was a Friday.

01:28:00.500 --> 01:28:03.480
So I stayed away from the office for the whole stinking weekend.

01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:06.580
My dark mood deepened into adult depression leaving.

01:28:06.820 --> 01:28:08.420
Me with even more damn questions.

01:28:08.500 --> 01:28:11.060
Like what the hell do I tell my robot kids?

01:28:11.140 --> 01:28:13.540
And how long does a healthy robot live?

01:28:13.540 --> 01:28:15.860
And how did I make it through the airport x-ray?

01:28:16.320 --> 01:28:17.760
Or was that one of those fake memories?

01:28:18.220 --> 01:28:20.040
It ain't easy knowing the truth.

01:28:20.080 --> 01:28:21.100
I'm blowing a fuse.

01:28:21.260 --> 01:28:23.420
My soul feels funny like there's a hole in my shoe.

01:28:23.520 --> 01:28:24.640
I need a moment or two.

01:28:24.740 --> 01:28:26.020
Let me go over the clues.

01:28:26.120 --> 01:28:27.260
I drank a case of Bud Light.

01:28:27.320 --> 01:28:28.460
It's still sober and noon.

01:28:28.520 --> 01:28:31.120
I got a few things to do and even more to put in order.

01:28:31.240 --> 01:28:33.860
Walking through the kitchen trip and there's my wife and baby daughter.

01:28:34.080 --> 01:28:36.160
And they can see by the look of my face.

01:28:36.220 --> 01:28:38.680
So I sit them down and tell them I've got something to say.

01:28:39.120 --> 01:28:39.520
Honey?

01:28:39.740 --> 01:28:40.020
Yeah?

01:28:40.480 --> 01:28:40.960
Snookums?

01:28:41.040 --> 01:28:41.280
What?

01:28:41.620 --> 01:28:42.740
You're not gonna like this.

01:28:42.740 --> 01:28:43.840
What did you do this time?

01:28:43.900 --> 01:28:47.160
I'm a robot program not to know that I'm a robot.

01:28:47.240 --> 01:28:51.340
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul.

01:28:51.460 --> 01:28:53.900
Now we're running around trying to forget what I know.

01:28:53.960 --> 01:28:57.160
I'm a robot program not to know that I'm a robot.

01:28:57.360 --> 01:29:01.460
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul.

01:29:01.560 --> 01:29:04.000
Now we're running around trying to forget what I know.

01:29:04.080 --> 01:29:07.260
I'm a robot program not to know that I'm a robot.

01:29:07.260 --> 01:29:11.580
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul

01:29:11.580 --> 01:29:14.120
Now I'm running around trying to forget what I know

01:29:14.120 --> 01:29:17.340
I'm a robot program not to know that I'm a robot

01:29:17.340 --> 01:29:21.680
But some dumb fuck emailed me the computer code that makes up my soul

01:29:21.680 --> 01:29:24.300
Now I'm running around trying to forget what I know

01:29:24.300 --> 01:29:26.660
That's the biggest thing I want to impress upon you

01:29:26.660 --> 01:29:28.640
We want you here, we need you here

01:29:28.640 --> 01:29:33.560
So just take some time off, take the day off, take the week off

01:29:33.560 --> 01:29:38.040
And just sleep on it and think about it and come back fresh on Monday

01:29:38.040 --> 01:29:40.480
And I know, I know your answer will be

01:29:40.480 --> 01:29:42.900
I want to stay, I'm happy here

01:29:42.900 --> 01:29:44.600
And that's what we want

01:29:44.600 --> 01:29:48.040
We want you to be happy and we're going to work towards that

01:29:48.040 --> 01:29:50.180
Towards that goal together, mutually

01:29:50.180 --> 01:29:51.980
It's a mutual understanding

01:30:03.560 --> 01:30:04.480
We want you here

01:30:04.480 --> 01:30:04.980
We want you here

01:30:04.980 --> 01:30:05.620
We want you here

01:30:05.620 --> 01:30:05.940
We want you here

01:30:05.940 --> 01:30:06.320
We want you here

01:30:06.320 --> 01:30:07.600
We want you here

01:30:07.600 --> 01:30:08.300
We want you here

01:30:08.300 --> 01:30:08.820
We want you here

01:30:08.820 --> 01:30:08.860
We want you here

01:30:08.860 --> 01:30:09.220
We want you here

01:30:09.220 --> 01:30:09.320
We want you here

01:30:09.320 --> 01:30:09.880
We want you here

01:30:09.940 --> 01:30:10.420
We want you here

01:30:10.420 --> 01:30:10.680
We want you here

01:30:10.680 --> 01:30:11.660
We want you here

01:30:11.660 --> 01:30:11.820
We want you here

01:30:11.820 --> 01:30:11.840
We want you here

01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:12.580
We want you here

01:30:12.580 --> 01:30:13.200
We want younga

01:30:13.200 --> 01:30:14.320
We want you here

01:30:14.320 --> 01:30:14.680
We want you here

01:30:14.680 --> 01:30:15.240
We want you here

01:30:15.240 --> 01:30:16.220
We want you here

01:30:16.220 --> 01:30:16.520
We want you here

01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:17.140
We're in the end

01:30:17.140 --> 01:30:17.580
We want you here

01:30:17.580 --> 01:30:18.740
We want you here

01:30:18.740 --> 01:30:19.780
We want you here

01:30:19.780 --> 01:30:19.840
We want you here

01:30:19.840 --> 01:30:20.900
We want you here

01:30:20.900 --> 01:30:21.480
We want you here

01:30:21.480 --> 01:30:21.860
We want you here

01:30:21.860 --> 01:30:22.660
We want you here

01:30:22.660 --> 01:30:22.960
Here yesterday

01:30:22.960 --> 01:30:25.260
We want you here

01:30:25.260 --> 01:30:26.020
We want you here

01:30:26.020 --> 01:30:27.160
We know you here