WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.860 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:10.360 --> 00:15.960 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:15.960 --> 00:16.900 in a fag pose. 00:17.160 --> 00:22.140 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six foe. 00:22.320 --> 00:26.880 I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable. 00:26.880 --> 00:32.900 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero. 00:33.120 --> 00:35.580 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream cats. 00:35.920 --> 00:38.800 You need some ISO? Let me do my hard drive rifle. 00:39.120 --> 00:40.800 Our exchange you could never stifle. 00:41.060 --> 00:43.960 In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. 00:44.260 --> 00:47.980 I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z. 00:48.320 --> 00:52.540 Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. 00:52.540 --> 00:56.700 You feel that rattling in bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones? 00:57.020 --> 01:01.140 And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:01.540 --> 01:03.920 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:04.380 --> 01:07.200 This is dedicated to the hackers and the cruisers. 01:07.560 --> 01:11.940 Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANS, SIFS, SIS. 01:12.360 --> 01:14.620 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack. 01:14.800 --> 01:16.180 Stank Dog, we're Gelada. 01:16.440 --> 01:17.040 And Saffron. 01:17.380 --> 01:19.040 And this is a proper British accent. 01:19.340 --> 01:20.860 Stank Dog, you are a noob. 01:20.860 --> 01:22.580 We for G, your leet noobness. 01:22.840 --> 01:24.920 Warning, the following sound is adjusted. 01:25.720 --> 01:26.280 Leet. 01:26.880 --> 01:37.140 Hello, everyone, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode 97, coming to you on May 24th, 2005. 01:37.860 --> 01:44.320 I am Stank Dog, and joining me this week from the dirty, dirty streets of New York City, 01:44.320 --> 01:52.900 on this ghetto-fied edition of Binary Revolution Radio, is the one, the only, Natus in the house. 01:53.420 --> 01:54.280 Hey, yo-yo, what's up? 01:54.380 --> 01:54.760 Stank Dog. 01:54.760 --> 01:59.980 And right, like, underneath or on top of the train station, it sounds like. 02:00.260 --> 02:00.560 Yeah. 02:01.200 --> 02:03.740 So, bear with us with the sound quality here. 02:03.800 --> 02:06.640 We thought we'd do an on-location, as it were. 02:06.780 --> 02:10.820 So, Natus is actually out at a payphone that we dialed in. 02:10.820 --> 02:17.460 So, we're going to try this out and see what kind of, get the sounds of the streets in the background and the trains. 02:17.720 --> 02:20.560 And we don't need no sound quality. 02:20.560 --> 02:26.820 So, we're going to go with this episode, see how this rides out. 02:26.820 --> 02:36.120 So, now, the opening clip you heard, just before you heard us come on, was a clip from Gelata and Saffron. 02:37.460 --> 02:42.440 If you remember, a couple weeks ago, I made some jokes about my pathetic British accent, 02:42.580 --> 02:45.660 and I told people to send me in a proper British accent. 02:46.780 --> 02:51.140 And they, that was Gelata and Saffron who opened the show, actually, not me. 02:51.140 --> 02:52.980 So, shouts to them. 02:54.060 --> 02:55.980 And please feel free to send in more. 02:55.980 --> 02:56.940 I thought that was pretty funny. 02:57.020 --> 02:57.980 I was lolling at that one. 02:58.040 --> 02:58.400 Pretty good. 03:01.380 --> 03:03.660 And, you know what? 03:03.740 --> 03:08.120 I've got a little bit of a rant to start the show off this week. 03:08.240 --> 03:09.340 Gee, what else is new, right? 03:09.780 --> 03:10.100 Yeah. 03:11.300 --> 03:13.560 So, I guess bear with me a little bit, Nat. 03:13.600 --> 03:17.800 Maybe you should hold the phone up so the people of New York City can hear me cussing and screaming about this. 03:18.900 --> 03:25.460 But, see, something, I got an email this week that's kind of just pissed me off, quite frankly. 03:25.980 --> 03:34.900 But, someone sent me an invitation, I guess, for lack of a better word, or wanting me to help out with a project or something. 03:34.980 --> 03:40.500 They were working on a site, a list of security policies, actually, or something along those lines. 03:40.500 --> 03:45.660 But, it's not, it kind of pissed me off a little bit. 03:45.720 --> 03:50.220 First of all, they didn't send it to the radio address, so I'm not going to read it on the air, give anybody's name or anything. 03:50.380 --> 03:55.000 But, it just prompted me to want to talk about this topic on the show a little bit. 03:55.000 --> 03:59.360 And, that is just the general topic of hackers versus security professionals. 04:00.120 --> 04:03.360 And, in quotation marks, of course, security professionals. 04:03.360 --> 04:15.000 First of all, this thing, this email just insulted me, just, I was grossly insulted by the email itself, just the tone of it. 04:15.200 --> 04:20.360 Basically, this email translated said, something along the lines of, 04:20.420 --> 04:21.600 Stankdog, you suck. 04:22.040 --> 04:25.980 Do you know anybody else that does not suck that would want to help me on this project? 04:25.980 --> 04:30.780 So, on a personal note, I thought that was just downright rude. 04:31.500 --> 04:35.060 Yeah, I'm kind of paraphrasing the email, but that's pretty much the long and short of it. 04:36.200 --> 04:44.720 And, the project that they wanted me to put them in touch with somebody or assist, or I don't know what they wanted. 04:44.840 --> 04:46.380 I mean, they didn't want my assistance, apparently. 04:46.580 --> 04:52.320 But, was some kind of security standards type project, like putting together a list of security standards, 04:52.320 --> 04:54.720 or updating an existing list, or something like that. 04:54.720 --> 04:59.700 Something that's already been done, a lot of times, there's several different standards out there. 04:59.780 --> 05:00.840 They're constantly updated. 05:00.960 --> 05:02.560 Security is a big, hot issue right now. 05:02.620 --> 05:06.100 I don't know what another one, what we need another one for. 05:06.180 --> 05:06.840 But, okay, whatever. 05:07.060 --> 05:09.600 I would support it otherwise, had I not been assaulted. 05:09.860 --> 05:11.300 But, fine. 05:11.400 --> 05:15.100 But, see, there's a bigger problem that I have with all this. 05:15.180 --> 05:17.680 You know, the personal slight against me, I can ignore that. 05:17.720 --> 05:18.640 That's not a big deal. 05:19.860 --> 05:21.920 But, there's a deeper problem here. 05:21.920 --> 05:29.180 And, it's this, I don't know, this coming together of two different groups of people. 05:29.300 --> 05:31.900 Hackers and security professionals. 05:32.320 --> 05:35.380 Because, quite honestly, they are two different groups of people. 05:35.520 --> 05:41.560 Hackers like security as much as anyone else, but I don't see it working the other way around. 05:41.560 --> 05:59.360 Most security professionals, quote unquote security professionals that I've ever met, are all a bunch of arrogant assholes that think that because they've got a piece of paper, or fucking initials behind their name, or something like that, that they're some kind of elite uber hacker because they know this security material. 05:59.360 --> 06:01.660 And, that's, it's so wrong. 06:01.740 --> 06:04.540 It's just, it's just so false. 06:04.700 --> 06:09.960 It gives them a false idea that they know what hacking is all about, or they know what security is all about. 06:10.000 --> 06:12.060 Like, the two words are interchangeable, and they're not. 06:12.680 --> 06:19.420 It kind of reminds me, Natis, have you ever met those people that, like, they have a doctoral degree, and they insist on being called doctor? 06:19.420 --> 06:21.000 Ha, you know? 06:21.020 --> 06:28.400 Yeah, it's kind of funny that you said that, because, um, actually in high school, my Cisco certification teacher was a doctor, and he made us always call him doctor. 06:28.920 --> 06:31.960 Fuck you, I'm not calling you a doctor unless you're operating on me. 06:33.400 --> 06:34.540 Doctor, what the fuck? 06:34.660 --> 06:39.800 Doctor of fucking basket weaving, or fucking doctor of pet psychology, or some bullshit? 06:39.940 --> 06:41.540 Fuck you, I'm not calling you a doctor. 06:42.220 --> 06:44.240 Call you whatever I damn well feel like it. 06:44.260 --> 06:46.760 That's some, that's stupid, I just hate that. 06:47.020 --> 06:48.880 Even if he has 15 certifications? 06:48.880 --> 06:54.620 If, I don't care if he's got a hundred certifications, it doesn't mean it, it's not impressing me. 06:54.980 --> 06:56.200 It's not impressing me. 06:56.280 --> 06:57.420 It's a big fucking deal. 06:57.720 --> 07:01.020 You went out and paid to take a test, and got some certification. 07:01.020 --> 07:03.240 You went out and paid to get a piece of paper. 07:03.800 --> 07:07.860 If anything, I think that's a little dumb, if you ask me, especially when you start getting redundant ones. 07:08.740 --> 07:12.360 What's the point of having more than one or two security certifications? 07:12.460 --> 07:14.440 They all start to overlap, they're all very similar. 07:15.380 --> 07:18.540 You know, so it's actually kind of silly if you're pointing it out to me like that. 07:18.540 --> 07:20.020 That, that, it doesn't impress me. 07:20.080 --> 07:24.840 Just because you took a class and memorized some stuff, that doesn't impress me in the least bit. 07:25.280 --> 07:33.020 And I get emails from people, some worse than others, where like their whole sig file is longer than the actual message itself. 07:33.800 --> 07:37.280 It's got a list of all their titles and all their degrees and certifications. 07:37.440 --> 07:38.440 What the fuck? 07:38.440 --> 07:44.780 Yeah, I was hoping you were going to bring that up, because I saw that email you were talking about, and this guy's signature was pretty ridiculous. 07:44.780 --> 07:48.900 Yeah, it's like, I mean, what, I need to buy a fucking vowel? 07:49.000 --> 07:50.860 What, do I spin the fucking wheel again or something? 07:50.940 --> 07:53.440 I can't even read, all this shit means nothing to me. 07:53.840 --> 07:54.900 I don't give a fuck. 07:54.940 --> 07:57.060 All that proves is he knows the motherfucking alphabet. 07:57.220 --> 08:06.720 Like, I give a rat's ass, you know, that you've got all these fucking letters after your name, or before your name, or you're part of, it doesn't mean shit to me as a hacker. 08:06.720 --> 08:09.460 And it doesn't make you a hacker, because you've got all this shit. 08:10.140 --> 08:10.780 That's what I'm saying. 08:10.860 --> 08:15.080 There's like this, there's no overlap, there's some overlap, that's a lie. 08:15.160 --> 08:15.940 There is some overlap. 08:16.060 --> 08:23.440 I've met a few people that are good at both, and that have translated from hackers into security professionals, but not the other way around. 08:24.000 --> 08:28.680 Just because you go get this piece of paper, that's like, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're a hacker. 08:29.180 --> 08:33.120 I've got a CEH, I've got my certified ethical hacker, I've talked about it on the show before. 08:33.340 --> 08:34.540 I don't list it on my resume. 08:35.280 --> 08:40.480 I've been published in how many magazines, and all the projects that we do, I don't list that on a resume. 08:40.660 --> 08:46.760 I don't list it on my SIG file, or in my emails, or in my articles. 08:46.860 --> 08:51.800 I don't end my articles with, Stank Dog, CEH, published in blah blah blah, presented at blah... 08:51.800 --> 08:53.760 No, what's the point? 08:54.140 --> 08:55.780 I'm not trying to impress anybody. 08:55.920 --> 08:57.180 I really don't understand. 08:57.180 --> 09:01.220 The only point of putting shit like that in there is because you're trying to impress somebody. 09:01.320 --> 09:04.020 You think that by putting all of that shit after your name... 09:04.020 --> 09:05.780 I mean, honestly, what other reason is there? 09:05.940 --> 09:09.960 You put all that shit after your name, you're trying to impress somebody by putting all that shit. 09:10.000 --> 09:10.440 And you know what? 09:10.620 --> 09:14.820 I don't give a flying monkey fuck if you're impressed about what I put in my goddamn SIG file. 09:14.940 --> 09:15.500 Fuck off! 09:15.500 --> 09:23.020 Anyway, I don't get security professionals in general. 09:23.120 --> 09:25.540 Security professionals, they'll never admit this, of course. 09:25.640 --> 09:26.560 They think they're great. 09:26.660 --> 09:27.740 They think they're uber hackers. 09:27.740 --> 09:34.180 But they will never get the simple fact that they're learning things that we've already done. 09:35.000 --> 09:38.860 They're going out there and studying and taking these classes and reading these books 09:38.860 --> 09:44.040 to find out known vulnerabilities and common ways to protect yourself from them. 09:44.260 --> 09:46.180 It's all after the fact. 09:46.280 --> 09:47.820 It's all reactionary. 09:47.820 --> 09:52.400 So hackers are out there finding and inventing these exploits, inventing these vulnerabilities, 09:52.700 --> 09:58.360 coming up with new things, finding them because we have that mindset, we have that eye to notice 09:58.360 --> 10:03.980 where a vulnerability exists or could exist and actually executing it. 10:03.980 --> 10:11.540 So security professionals, no matter what they want to admit, are always, always reactive in nature. 10:11.840 --> 10:12.200 Always. 10:13.280 --> 10:16.300 All they're going to do is put on all their security patches, 10:16.680 --> 10:19.460 close down the ports that they don't want to use as much as possible, 10:19.860 --> 10:23.200 lock the doors and windows, etc., etc., from known attacks. 10:23.840 --> 10:26.220 And you can lock everything that you know down. 10:26.360 --> 10:29.740 But what are you going to do when hackers find something new? 10:29.820 --> 10:32.540 We find a new vulnerable window or a new vulnerable door. 10:32.540 --> 10:34.280 All that you're going to do is react. 10:35.180 --> 10:39.600 Now, fine, that may make you a good security officer and security professional, 10:39.980 --> 10:44.900 but don't come telling me, sending me an email about how my writing is not standard 10:44.900 --> 10:47.540 and not up to your expectations. 10:48.240 --> 10:49.540 How's that for a new word? 10:50.140 --> 10:55.780 I don't give a fuck what a security professional thinks about my show or my writing 10:55.780 --> 10:57.820 or any of the projects that we do. 10:57.940 --> 11:00.280 I couldn't give a fuck less. 11:00.280 --> 11:05.340 Stop listing CISSP, ISAP, LMNOP, EIFuckingEIO. 11:06.120 --> 11:07.420 I don't give a rat's ass. 11:07.500 --> 11:11.320 It doesn't mean anything to us or to me anyway and hackers in general. 11:11.820 --> 11:15.940 Hackers are not necessarily security professionals, although we could. 11:15.940 --> 11:20.800 I've had so many offers, and I know a lot of people that, like, they want hackers 11:20.800 --> 11:23.700 because they know that hackers know what we're doing and what we're talking about. 11:24.200 --> 11:31.140 We could easily become security professionals, but security professionals cannot always become hackers. 11:31.820 --> 11:33.340 They just don't get it. 11:34.400 --> 11:35.080 They never will. 11:35.780 --> 11:36.060 Yeah. 11:37.040 --> 11:37.560 All right. 11:37.900 --> 11:38.300 All right. 11:38.340 --> 11:39.420 I'm all stressed out now. 11:39.540 --> 11:41.160 I start off the show getting all stressed out. 11:41.200 --> 11:43.280 How much time did I waste on this freaking thing? 11:43.440 --> 11:43.600 Tent. 11:43.660 --> 11:44.380 Oh, crap. 11:45.280 --> 11:45.600 All right. 11:45.620 --> 11:46.440 Actually, I didn't go too. 11:46.480 --> 11:48.040 I wasn't too awful mad at that one. 11:48.080 --> 11:51.000 I just wanted to get it off my chest because, ugh. 11:51.600 --> 11:53.600 Anyway, I'll move on. 11:54.700 --> 11:56.680 What else do we have for housekeeping for the show? 11:56.680 --> 12:01.880 Oh, Natus, how about, what are we going to do for DEFCON? 12:01.960 --> 12:04.760 I mean, we haven't really made any solid, solid plans yet. 12:04.820 --> 12:09.340 I mean, we've kind of been talking around, but Alexis Park is sold out. 12:09.460 --> 12:16.220 I called Sunday, Saturday or Sunday, and they're sold out of the DEFCON rates, 12:16.400 --> 12:22.240 and the lady on the phone checked the regular rates, and she said there's no regular rooms available either. 12:23.040 --> 12:23.340 Huh. 12:23.800 --> 12:24.880 So that's not cool. 12:24.880 --> 12:27.320 I mean, it's months away, and it's already sold out. 12:27.760 --> 12:27.980 Mm-hmm. 12:28.580 --> 12:29.060 So... 12:29.060 --> 12:33.720 I didn't stay at Alexis Park last year, but I wanted to stay a little bit closer this year, 12:33.800 --> 12:36.040 but I guess I won't be staying at the Alexis Park. 12:36.460 --> 12:39.720 Yeah, I checked on, there was a couple others that you told me about, 12:40.160 --> 12:45.740 and I checked them, and they were either sold out or way too expensive. 12:46.640 --> 12:47.100 Oh, really? 12:47.160 --> 12:48.840 I'm guessing the Hard Rock was the expensive one? 12:48.860 --> 12:51.880 Yeah, there's a Hard Rock, there's a... 12:51.880 --> 12:53.500 St. Tropez. 12:53.500 --> 12:54.680 St. Tropez, right? 12:54.680 --> 12:56.520 St. Tropez, I think, was sold out. 12:56.580 --> 12:57.940 Hard Rock, I think, was real expensive. 12:58.600 --> 13:06.940 And actually, I've got to say, the lady from the Alexis Park also said there was a Fairfield 13:06.940 --> 13:09.700 really close to them, like next to them also. 13:09.700 --> 13:13.240 So I did not call that one yet, but that sounds pretty ghetto. 13:13.300 --> 13:17.000 I think that's going to be one of those ghetto, you know, cheap-ass hotels, which is fine, you know. 13:17.000 --> 13:17.600 Pay by the hour. 13:18.320 --> 13:19.100 Yeah, exactly. 13:19.100 --> 13:27.620 So, well, I'm looking at just getting something up on the strip myself and just commuting, for lack of a better word. 13:28.320 --> 13:35.540 There's a subway system there that apparently is up and running now, and it doesn't go exactly to the Alexis Park. 13:35.540 --> 13:46.140 The closest thing it shows up at is the MGM Grand, and then you have to walk, I think, if I remember looking it up on the map, it's maybe a half a mile, so it's maybe a 20-minute walk or something like that. 13:47.100 --> 13:50.020 20 minutes of death in the Vegas heat in summer. 13:50.020 --> 13:53.780 Yeah, well, it's one of those things where once you get to the Alexis Park, hopefully you won't be leaving. 13:55.120 --> 13:59.480 And, of course, worst case, I mean, if you have to, you can get a cab or something there. 14:00.600 --> 14:03.840 But the subways are, not the subway, what is it, the monorail, excuse me. 14:04.180 --> 14:06.560 Yeah, the monorail's probably cheaper, I'm sure. 14:07.540 --> 14:15.180 But, yeah, if you can't get a room there, which it sounds like they're running in short supply, then, yeah, I'm going to say something up on the strip. 14:15.180 --> 14:20.800 I'm even looking down at the other end of the strip and just ride the monorail up, so I don't know. 14:21.020 --> 14:21.600 We'll see. 14:21.720 --> 14:23.400 Have you booked anything yet? 14:23.960 --> 14:29.360 No, I haven't booked anything, and I don't plan on booking anything until probably the beginning of July. 14:30.560 --> 14:35.580 Yeah, see, I'm actually going to stay up for an extra week and do kind of the vacation thing as well. 14:35.680 --> 14:39.260 So after the con's over, I'm going to stay there a week afterwards and go do some Vegas stuff. 14:39.360 --> 14:44.780 So I need to, unfortunately, I'm in a position where I need to commit and make sure I have a room available for all that time. 14:44.780 --> 14:49.340 So I'm going to have to book something in the next week or so, by the end of this week, actually. 14:51.340 --> 14:56.260 So be aware that the Alexis Park is apparently sold out. 14:56.380 --> 14:58.600 I mean, you might be able to call an SE your way into something. 14:58.700 --> 14:59.860 I didn't really push my luck. 14:59.920 --> 15:05.560 I just pretty much asked and didn't have any luck. 15:05.560 --> 15:13.720 So, again, the other three hotels that were nearby were the Hard Rock, St. Tropez, what? 15:13.960 --> 15:14.940 Yep, St. Tropez. 15:15.200 --> 15:18.120 Yeah, and the Fairfield, I don't know, Fairfield Inn? 15:18.180 --> 15:18.440 I don't know. 15:18.480 --> 15:19.380 She just said Fairfield. 15:19.840 --> 15:25.240 So you might want to check into those if you want to stay very close walking distance of DEFCON 13. 15:26.920 --> 15:30.680 All right, well, did you have any housekeeping to take care of? 15:30.680 --> 15:31.260 You still out there? 15:31.260 --> 15:33.040 I hear people walking by once in a while. 15:33.900 --> 15:44.220 Yeah, it's like the commute hour, so people are going to be walking by and the trains keep going by pretty frequently because it's rush hour. 15:44.760 --> 15:46.140 Yeah, we're getting a little static, too. 15:46.220 --> 15:51.080 Let's bear with this a little bit longer and see if we can stay on the payphone just for the fun of it. 15:51.420 --> 15:51.620 Okay. 15:51.620 --> 15:55.420 But first, let's do some e-mail. 16:11.480 --> 16:20.220 All right, our first e-mail this week comes from Optics Slave. 16:20.220 --> 16:26.660 And Optics Slave, along with some electronics advice that he sent me following up on my electronics discussion a few episodes ago, 16:27.480 --> 16:35.200 says, first off, let me begin by saying that I think it's awesome that you welcome articles related to electronics in your magazine. 16:35.200 --> 16:43.880 Some people seem to operate under the illusion that hacking is exclusively software-driven and underestimate the value of electronics knowledge, 16:44.020 --> 16:51.060 but there are times when you need to integrate a microcontroller onto a board or construct a DTMF. 16:51.060 --> 16:51.880 I think that's a typo. 16:51.960 --> 16:53.600 A DTMF decoder. 16:53.960 --> 16:54.960 He says DMTF. 16:55.060 --> 16:55.980 I'm sure that was a typo. 16:55.980 --> 17:01.380 For years, I always believed that 2600 should have included more electronic-based content. 17:01.820 --> 17:05.900 Doing so just widens the spectrum of the hacking media. 17:07.340 --> 17:09.980 And, yeah, I agree with that completely. 17:10.200 --> 17:12.660 Electronics is very, very much related to hacking. 17:12.660 --> 17:19.800 And I see it on an upswing in general because hardware hacking in general is kind of taken off. 17:19.980 --> 17:25.380 A lot of console gaming and PlayStation and Nintendo and all this kind of stuff, people are taking these apart. 17:25.640 --> 17:29.360 And that requires some electronic skill as well as software. 17:30.420 --> 17:37.140 So, and Linux, of course, is always the thing they're pushing on that because it makes it pretty, I won't say easy, 17:37.140 --> 17:42.140 but it's definitely easier than Windows trying to import Windows onto one of those devices. 17:43.260 --> 17:47.560 But learning how to interact with hardware and electronic, knowing the electronics of the system, 17:47.920 --> 17:49.940 I think it's on a bit of an increase. 17:50.060 --> 17:54.400 And I think people are just now starting to tap the surface of hardware hacking. 17:54.680 --> 18:00.560 And magazines like Make Magazine, that thing from O'Reilly, is full of good projects and stuff like that. 18:01.240 --> 18:05.980 Again, BinRev Magazine, we've had and would like to keep putting in electronics articles. 18:05.980 --> 18:11.880 I know Hack and Slash had that article in there about making your own LED remote control thing. 18:12.660 --> 18:16.080 So, I think, yeah, I think people are getting that. 18:16.500 --> 18:20.520 And, you know, a lot of the presentations, I know Astus, of course, would agree with that as well. 18:20.600 --> 18:25.220 And that's something that I wanted to learn and have been trying to learn more of. 18:25.900 --> 18:29.720 So, yeah, absolutely agree with that 100%. 18:29.720 --> 18:37.000 So, there's not really much more to say except that if you do want to submit an electronic article for Binary Revolution magazine, 18:37.120 --> 18:39.280 just send it to articles at binrev.com. 18:39.380 --> 18:43.960 And we will gladly give it the same equal consideration we give to any other articles. 18:44.080 --> 18:45.240 It's not all about software. 18:45.420 --> 18:48.360 It's not all about programming and stuff like that. 18:48.360 --> 18:50.200 Sometimes, you have to have that interaction. 18:50.360 --> 19:00.160 And, Natus, you probably can relate to this a little bit as well because Asterisk is a software solution for what is normally a hardware-type application. 19:00.700 --> 19:00.920 Right. 19:01.400 --> 19:06.680 So, having a good understanding of it is very helpful. 19:07.400 --> 19:08.100 Yeah, definitely. 19:09.220 --> 19:12.400 I mean, electronic stuff is really, like, beyond me. 19:12.400 --> 19:16.280 And some of the stuff people do is just really cool. 19:16.760 --> 19:18.360 Yeah, I've just never been exposed to it. 19:18.440 --> 19:20.320 I just, you know, I'm trying to teach myself. 19:20.600 --> 19:23.700 And I bought that stupid kit from Rat Shack. 19:25.040 --> 19:28.440 And it doesn't work because, well, Rat Shack sucks. 19:28.600 --> 19:30.340 But, anyway, I've been through that before. 19:31.240 --> 19:31.780 Let's see. 19:31.820 --> 19:37.280 Our next email comes from Shadowfire, who says, 19:37.380 --> 19:38.360 Howdy to all. 19:38.520 --> 19:40.560 This is in reference to episode 83. 19:40.560 --> 19:42.700 Wow, that's a, wow, we're on 97. 19:42.860 --> 19:44.560 That's back a few weeks, a few months. 19:46.680 --> 19:55.360 Reference to episode 83 and Doug and Lucky 225's discussion slash argument regarding caller ID and who should or shouldn't have it and spoofing it. 19:55.820 --> 20:00.340 From my personal experience, caller ID blocking is rather important for some folks. 20:00.960 --> 20:05.420 Some friends from back home had their caller ID blocked because of some nasty divorce problems. 20:05.420 --> 20:12.080 And since my father ran a company out of our home, he had the line set so that your caller ID had to be enabled to call in. 20:12.720 --> 20:21.040 This wasn't a problem, really, as my buddies just had to key some star 8x sequence to pass the caller ID to our phone to make the call go through. 20:21.040 --> 20:24.160 Another example is the firehouse where I volunteer. 20:24.340 --> 20:31.680 We don't want everyone and their brother to have the firehouse number, not only to avoid harassing phone calls, but we want them calling 911 for an emergency. 20:32.180 --> 20:39.840 The same star 8x sequence override applies here, but most of the time I just call the people from my cell phone anyhow. 20:39.840 --> 20:49.120 All right, well, Natus, this was that episode that Doug and Lucky 225 did when Doug took over hosting the show for a couple episodes. 20:50.120 --> 20:58.600 And we actually had a couple, actually we had quite a bit of email following up on that because Lucky has one view on it and Doug, I guess, had a different view on it. 20:58.860 --> 21:00.500 And I don't know, what do you think? 21:01.300 --> 21:03.480 I don't know, spoof them all and let God sort it out. 21:03.480 --> 21:09.600 Oh, I'm so putting that in my SIG file. 21:12.120 --> 21:13.300 Oh, that was good. 21:13.800 --> 21:19.880 Oh, man, you know what, Natus, I hate to say this, but I think the static is really kind of loud on your payphone there. 21:20.540 --> 21:20.860 Really? 21:21.100 --> 21:26.860 Yeah, as cool as it is to hear the trains go by and the people in the background, that part's kind of funny, I like. 21:27.380 --> 21:30.460 Can you call back in from your cell phone so we can get a clear signal? 21:30.900 --> 21:34.920 Yeah, sure, my voice is annoying enough as it is, doesn't need static added with it. 21:35.100 --> 21:39.900 It just seems to have gotten worse or something, so I'm going to go on to the next email, just give me a call right back in. 21:40.020 --> 21:40.200 Okay. 21:40.380 --> 21:40.620 All right. 21:42.200 --> 21:46.260 All right, so we're going to let Natus call back in and I'm going to move on with our email. 21:46.420 --> 21:49.840 See, I told you this was the Ghetto-fied edition from the streets. 21:51.120 --> 21:52.040 All right, wow. 21:53.540 --> 21:55.540 Wow, I didn't even get started on the second email. 21:56.900 --> 21:58.680 All right, oh, man, that's so much better. 21:59.380 --> 21:59.900 Can you hear me? 21:59.900 --> 22:01.740 Am I sounding clearer? 22:01.960 --> 22:05.420 Oh, that's so phenomenally, wow, what a difference. 22:06.420 --> 22:09.500 It makes me realize how bad, I was just kind of bearing with it. 22:09.500 --> 22:14.680 That was a payphone, too, with a real landline, you know, it wasn't even, I don't know. 22:14.820 --> 22:15.380 That is bizarre. 22:16.200 --> 22:17.440 That is bizarre, the difference. 22:17.680 --> 22:22.700 It makes it, it didn't seem so bad at the time, but now compared to that, holy cow. 22:22.700 --> 22:28.260 All right, anyway, hopefully the levels didn't change too much. 22:28.320 --> 22:29.820 You're a little bit louder now, but that's good. 22:29.880 --> 22:30.900 We're going to go with this anyway. 22:31.860 --> 22:31.980 Okay. 22:31.980 --> 22:35.120 This email was, okay, I hadn't even started it yet. 22:35.180 --> 22:40.140 So, our next email is from Tim, last name withheld here, who says, 22:40.140 --> 22:43.900 Stankdog, I've caught up with Binrev Radio after being busy with study. 22:44.360 --> 22:48.340 I found your discussion of programming languages in episode 94 especially interesting. 22:48.820 --> 22:54.440 I know authority on programming, and most of what I know I learned on a short C programming course for math students. 22:54.440 --> 23:01.340 I am interested in safe programming languages, that's S-A-F-E, safe programming languages. 23:01.500 --> 23:04.940 I know it's not hacker-like of me to ask questions before trying them myself, 23:05.620 --> 23:13.580 but could you say anything about OpenVMS scripting system, digital command language, or Oberon, Oberon2 slash component Pascal? 23:14.500 --> 23:21.340 Oberon is, according to the website, with a financial interest in it, safer than its competitor, C, C++, etc. 23:21.340 --> 23:28.680 I get a similar impression about DCL, apart from it being, apart from it obviously being a scripting language, 23:28.800 --> 23:31.900 whereas Oberon is a general purpose language suitable for system programming. 23:32.260 --> 23:34.060 But I know even less about it. 23:34.240 --> 23:36.200 Do you know of either being used? 23:37.640 --> 23:42.540 I doubt that I am alone among your listeners and expecting to embark upon a career soon. 23:43.000 --> 23:46.220 Since you gave advice on which programming language are best for earning money, 23:46.680 --> 23:49.120 could you give some more general career advice? 23:49.120 --> 23:51.760 Would you advise us to go into programming? 23:52.220 --> 23:56.040 What are other respectable hacker careers, and which are most demanded by employers? 23:56.760 --> 23:59.660 Naturally, any suggestions won't be tailored to my needs. 23:59.720 --> 24:03.100 However, people that I've met have made such general and yet interesting claims, 24:03.180 --> 24:08.720 such as physicists earn more than chemists, and actuaries are duller than accountants. 24:08.720 --> 24:11.140 All right. 24:12.340 --> 24:12.780 Wow. 24:13.420 --> 24:14.240 Let's see here. 24:14.320 --> 24:15.540 How do I start into this? 24:15.780 --> 24:18.120 First of all, Natus, do you... 24:18.120 --> 24:21.420 I personally, I don't have a whole lot of experience with VMS exactly. 24:22.400 --> 24:22.920 No, I don't. 24:23.240 --> 24:25.400 There's this one VBS that I go to. 24:27.440 --> 24:28.980 I can't remember the... 24:28.980 --> 24:30.740 Like, BizTech or something? 24:31.680 --> 24:32.020 Mm-hmm. 24:32.020 --> 24:33.980 They do a lot of VMS stuff. 24:34.200 --> 24:36.280 It's run by the guys at Telefreak. 24:36.980 --> 24:39.920 The guy at Telefreak, he's kind of into the whole VMS thing. 24:40.420 --> 24:40.860 Interesting. 24:41.820 --> 24:42.140 Mm-hmm. 24:42.420 --> 24:49.340 Well, I've used VMS, but it's probably been 10 years or more since I've really had anything to do with it. 24:49.580 --> 24:52.060 VMS in general, not necessarily OpenVMS. 24:52.800 --> 24:57.220 So I called a friend of mine who actually has worked with OpenVMS for 10-plus years, 24:57.380 --> 24:59.040 and I asked him about safe coding. 25:00.040 --> 25:06.540 And he really said to me that it's just kind of a strange concept to label something as a safe language 25:06.540 --> 25:10.580 or label any one language safer than another language. 25:10.680 --> 25:12.240 And I somewhat agree with that. 25:13.040 --> 25:15.900 Almost any language can be safe if you use it properly. 25:16.560 --> 25:21.420 The VMS has, and we kind of just demonstrated this accidentally, 25:21.420 --> 25:26.140 VMS has like a security through obscurity thing going on because not many people know about it. 25:26.200 --> 25:33.080 Not as many people are familiar with VMS as they are with, well, Linux and obviously Windows and Mac 25:33.080 --> 25:34.480 and some of the larger OSes. 25:34.700 --> 25:38.340 So it's got a layer of security through obscurity that helps. 25:38.740 --> 25:44.120 So if you want to add that to being a safer language or safer environment, I guess is a better term, 25:45.000 --> 25:46.320 it probably is. 25:46.420 --> 25:50.520 But, of course, you never rely on that, but it certainly doesn't help to, 25:50.520 --> 25:55.680 it certainly doesn't hurt, excuse me, that so few people know about it and have any level of depth on it. 25:56.420 --> 26:03.540 But I really don't, I don't think I'd say anything that one language is any more or less secure than another by a large degree. 26:03.660 --> 26:14.460 There's certainly little nuances here and there that can make them more open to unsafe coding, 26:14.460 --> 26:17.280 like they will allow unsafe code to be written more easily. 26:18.200 --> 26:21.620 But, I mean, I don't really blame the language exactly for that. 26:21.680 --> 26:24.200 I blame, you know, poor coding for that. 26:24.820 --> 26:27.300 So I think for the most part that can always be overcome. 26:27.300 --> 26:32.640 And, specifically, I do think you might have a little bit of a misunderstanding, 26:33.080 --> 26:39.740 or at least I'd like to clarify anyway, DCL, or any CL, which stands for control language. 26:41.020 --> 26:45.560 Any CL, it's, you said it's obviously a scripting language. 26:45.560 --> 26:49.080 Well, it kind of is, but it's not just a scripting language. 26:49.220 --> 26:53.920 It's not something that you would compare to, say, Perl, which is more of a scripting language, 26:54.120 --> 26:56.780 or, well, Perl can be a lot more as well. 26:57.100 --> 27:01.440 Perl's a great all-around language, but it's not like shell scripting exactly. 27:01.740 --> 27:05.080 It's very much, well, I don't know. 27:05.200 --> 27:08.440 I've used JCL, job control language, for many years. 27:08.860 --> 27:11.440 CL400, which is the AS400's control language. 27:11.440 --> 27:15.980 And, while they can be used for scripting, to a certain extent, 27:17.520 --> 27:19.940 it's scripting that's very similar to, like, a batch file, 27:20.020 --> 27:21.760 where it's running things sequentially. 27:22.760 --> 27:25.520 Yeah, they are, you can do some other things with them, 27:25.540 --> 27:26.720 but I wouldn't recommend it. 27:26.760 --> 27:28.100 They're not really designed for that. 27:28.420 --> 27:31.300 But, generally, a control language, a CL of any kind, 27:31.840 --> 27:35.900 is used in conjunction with another program, with a real program. 27:36.440 --> 27:39.940 So you would write a real program in whatever language, 27:39.940 --> 27:44.000 Pascal, you mentioned earlier, C, COBOL, anything, 27:44.340 --> 27:45.860 you know, whatever your language happens to be, 27:45.920 --> 27:49.180 you write the logic for, I don't know, 27:49.300 --> 27:54.780 let's pretend you have a, you write a program that reads in data from a flat file 27:54.780 --> 27:57.340 and then writes it out into a comma-separated file. 27:57.440 --> 27:58.540 I don't know, I just make one up. 27:59.440 --> 28:02.920 You don't actually put in your source code of the actual program, 28:03.600 --> 28:07.160 those file locations and hard code, anything like that. 28:07.740 --> 28:08.820 You just write the logic. 28:08.820 --> 28:12.660 You just give the file a name, define what type of file it is, and that's it. 28:13.040 --> 28:14.680 And you write the logic behind it. 28:15.380 --> 28:17.680 Now, what a control language does, 28:17.780 --> 28:20.020 and this is used in mostly in heavy metal systems, 28:20.140 --> 28:25.400 and OpenVMS is kind of derivative of the old VACS VMS systems, 28:26.440 --> 28:30.320 you're basically going to just give a generic name, 28:30.420 --> 28:31.280 just write your logic, 28:31.660 --> 28:36.420 and you have to have a control language to go along with it to submit your job. 28:36.420 --> 28:41.700 Because the control language is going to hold information about where the file is. 28:41.700 --> 28:46.140 Let's say you're reading in a file name that's .txt and you're putting out a .csv file. 28:47.020 --> 28:53.420 It's unimportant to the actual C program or whatever program you're writing where that file exists. 28:53.420 --> 28:59.280 As long as it can find it and read it and use it for input into the program and or output into the program, 28:59.280 --> 29:03.100 it doesn't care about the rest of things, and that's where the control language comes in. 29:03.940 --> 29:09.140 Your control language program, and that is what they're called, a control language program, 29:09.580 --> 29:15.360 can be a script that may, step one, make a backup of a file or rename a file or something like that. 29:15.360 --> 29:19.740 Step two, it will execute your compiled C program or whatever it happens to be 29:19.740 --> 29:25.580 and tell it, okay, the file that he's calling for input file one is right here, 29:25.740 --> 29:29.180 and the file that he's using for output csv file is right here. 29:29.300 --> 29:33.360 So the control language is like this handshake between the compiled program, 29:34.360 --> 29:39.460 not necessarily have to be compiled, but the program and the system or the operating system. 29:39.460 --> 29:45.520 So it kind of hands off information, passes parameters and things like that into the program. 29:45.860 --> 29:51.840 So it's not as simple as just clicking an .exe file or .slash and running an executable file. 29:52.040 --> 29:57.480 There's an extra layer in there, and it's something that, like in Linux, to give a comparison, 29:57.640 --> 30:02.300 when you compile, you may already know where a lot of those system things are. 30:02.980 --> 30:08.360 So, I don't know, it's just a different environment and different animal control languages in general. 30:08.360 --> 30:11.080 So, I don't know that they're exactly a scripting language. 30:11.200 --> 30:14.860 I just wanted to kind of clarify that there can be some scripting involved, 30:14.960 --> 30:16.240 but it's really not a scripting language. 30:16.360 --> 30:20.300 It's more of a control language, which is obviously why it's called a control language. 30:21.780 --> 30:25.940 So, anyway, career advice. Wow. 30:27.160 --> 30:29.720 Yeah, episode 94, we really focused on this, 30:29.760 --> 30:33.200 and I wanted to kind of just let people know what's out there and what we see out there. 30:33.700 --> 30:35.600 And I've kind of been looking around lately. 30:35.600 --> 30:40.380 You know what I'm seeing more than anything? Visual Basic Programmers. 30:41.140 --> 30:41.340 What? 30:41.760 --> 30:44.540 I see ads for VB Programmers more than anything. 30:46.260 --> 30:50.000 Like, probably, yeah, probably five to one. 30:52.280 --> 30:53.940 Anyway, so career advice. 30:56.040 --> 31:01.240 Well, I can't talk about, you mentioned, you know, whether something's duller than other things. 31:01.240 --> 31:05.860 I can't tell you what's dull or what's fun or whatever, because that's like a personal preference. 31:06.080 --> 31:11.360 Like, for me, I love programming, but most people think it's boring to sit behind a computer screen in front of code all day. 31:11.420 --> 31:13.020 I love it. I absolutely love it. 31:13.080 --> 31:15.020 So, I can't speak to that. 31:15.100 --> 31:16.580 Obviously, it's a case-by-case basis. 31:16.680 --> 31:21.940 But generally speaking, you ask about what I recommend people go into programming. 31:22.040 --> 31:22.720 Well, absolutely. 31:23.200 --> 31:26.440 I don't see programming jobs going anywhere anytime soon. 31:26.440 --> 31:30.440 Computers, in general, are becoming more and more commonplace. 31:30.600 --> 31:32.120 They're replacing every little thing. 31:32.620 --> 31:40.440 Programmers are always going to be in demand on some level as they begin to encroach more and more on our everyday lives. 31:41.160 --> 31:48.720 You know, whether it's new computerized refrigerators that make sure they cool down more when you're coming home from work 31:48.720 --> 31:56.960 or your smart microwave oven are all just, I mean, they're being incorporated into so many things, 31:57.160 --> 32:00.180 and there's always going to be a need for people to program them. 32:00.280 --> 32:04.680 So, programming as a general term, not going anywhere anytime soon. 32:04.680 --> 32:10.660 And, I've said this before, and I'll reemphasize, in my opinion, good programmers, 32:11.140 --> 32:18.600 and I emphasis on the word good, good programmers are always, always going to be very much in demand 32:18.600 --> 32:20.820 and will be in the foreseeable future. 32:21.100 --> 32:24.120 The same holds true with good system administrators as well. 32:24.620 --> 32:28.680 There's a lot of companies out there, smaller companies, that don't want to pay for a real programmer 32:28.680 --> 32:29.960 or a real sysadmin. 32:30.040 --> 32:31.920 They can't afford it or they don't think they need it. 32:31.920 --> 32:33.700 And, they'll do it themselves. 32:34.760 --> 32:38.840 And, you'll find a lot of people start like that and then come into the computer industry 32:38.840 --> 32:43.220 with that little bit of experience and little or no education to go with it, 32:43.240 --> 32:47.840 and you've got a glut of, well, frankly, bad programmers and bad admins. 32:48.320 --> 32:52.320 So, there are a lot of people that are crossing over, but there aren't many good ones. 32:52.920 --> 32:57.020 So, there's always going to be a need for medium and large companies for good people. 32:58.420 --> 33:00.720 Not there is, like, the perfect example right there. 33:00.720 --> 33:02.260 That guy, like, is always busy. 33:02.380 --> 33:03.600 He's always programming, you know? 33:03.780 --> 33:04.000 Yeah. 33:04.040 --> 33:04.800 Because he's on demand. 33:05.160 --> 33:05.560 Absolutely. 33:05.840 --> 33:09.840 He's all, I mean, when you know what you're doing and it's good stuff, you're always going 33:09.840 --> 33:10.460 to have a demand. 33:10.680 --> 33:12.700 And, there's always people that are going to need you. 33:12.740 --> 33:16.580 Because, the thing is, it's frustrating sometimes to watch. 33:16.600 --> 33:17.340 And, I've watched this. 33:17.400 --> 33:20.780 I've witnessed this in my 15 plus years of experience in the industry. 33:20.780 --> 33:26.780 I've watched people get hired that don't know a hill of beans about programming. 33:27.640 --> 33:31.700 But, they have some experience from these smaller companies and they can claim they were 33:31.700 --> 33:37.100 a sysadmin for mom and pop's grocery store, which means they installed, you know, Red Hat 33:37.100 --> 33:39.540 on a box and got it running and that's it. 33:40.080 --> 33:41.000 So, it's kind of hard. 33:41.100 --> 33:44.140 And then, once they get to the job, they find out they're in over their heads and they don't 33:44.140 --> 33:44.620 last long. 33:44.620 --> 33:48.620 So, they hop from job to job and probably about five years ago, that was a big notch 33:48.620 --> 33:52.800 on your resume or a big negative on your resume was people saw that you were job hopping. 33:52.900 --> 33:56.100 It was a sign that you didn't know what you were doing enough to stick around at one place. 33:57.360 --> 34:00.780 So, good people know always places for you. 34:00.900 --> 34:09.000 So, as far as general advice, generally for, and I'll speak to people that are still in high 34:09.000 --> 34:12.940 school, to young people that are in high school or just recently graduated or are not 34:12.940 --> 34:14.740 sure about college and things like that. 34:15.460 --> 34:19.860 If you want to get a job in the computer industry, because of what I mentioned earlier, you can 34:19.860 --> 34:22.020 get in it, but you won't excel or get very far. 34:22.120 --> 34:26.140 You'll get bounced around if you don't have a degree of some kind. 34:26.140 --> 34:31.940 So, I very strongly recommend getting a bachelor's degree, whether it be computer science, computer 34:31.940 --> 34:35.140 engineering, an IT degree, an IS degree, whatever. 34:35.960 --> 34:39.880 As long as it's a bachelor's degree from an accredited university, that's the best case 34:39.880 --> 34:41.180 scenario in my opinion. 34:41.180 --> 34:45.260 And, of course, if you want to go further with that and get a master's and doctoral degree, 34:45.380 --> 34:49.620 but don't ever expect me to call you doctor, if you want to go that extra route, that's 34:49.620 --> 34:49.960 great. 34:50.880 --> 34:54.200 I think that that's the best and most effective way to get out there. 34:54.580 --> 34:58.140 Now, that doesn't mean to take anything away from, like, tech degrees. 34:58.220 --> 35:03.200 If you want to go to a technical degree, some people just don't like the college environment. 35:03.360 --> 35:04.800 They don't excel with college. 35:04.800 --> 35:11.940 The tech degree is fine as well, but I personally, and this is just an opinion, it doesn't, from 35:11.940 --> 35:14.440 what I've seen, it doesn't carry as much weight in the industry. 35:15.880 --> 35:19.040 And certifications, everybody's buzzing about certifications now. 35:19.140 --> 35:23.920 Certification is not something that you should get in lieu of a college education. 35:23.920 --> 35:27.640 It's something that you should get in addition to a college education. 35:27.780 --> 35:32.200 After you've graduated college, you can get some certifications, or while you're in college, 35:32.260 --> 35:33.360 or while you're on the job. 35:33.620 --> 35:36.060 Never substitute the two. 35:36.540 --> 35:37.660 Never substitute them. 35:37.740 --> 35:41.880 Don't think that you're going to get a certification and you're going to be able to go out to a job. 35:42.140 --> 35:45.420 Certification without a degree backing it is still not going to get you very far. 35:45.420 --> 35:52.200 So, those are a couple basics that I would say, and just from my experience, I've watched, 35:52.300 --> 35:55.480 I've seen a lot of people come and go, and that's what I've seen. 35:55.540 --> 35:56.520 So, that's just my opinion. 35:56.740 --> 35:58.080 Take it for whatever it's worth. 35:59.520 --> 36:05.600 As far as how to succeed, some general advice is, I know a lot of people get bored, 36:06.640 --> 36:11.980 or it sounds boring to learn theory and fundamentals, and I know not theory, and I have talked about 36:11.980 --> 36:18.920 this a lot, but it's very, very important that you do become fundamentally sound. 36:19.020 --> 36:22.500 Learn the fundamentals of what happens when a program runs. 36:22.960 --> 36:25.680 Understand the interface between hardware and software. 36:27.460 --> 36:33.040 Understand the basic fundamentals of how a computer works, how a computer language works, 36:33.120 --> 36:35.880 how an operating system works, the relationships of all of them, 36:35.880 --> 36:40.820 and then your role in making all those things interact. 36:41.980 --> 36:45.860 If you understand fundamentals and stuff like that, you can adapt to all the other superficial 36:45.860 --> 36:49.360 things like syntax, or language changes, or architecture changes. 36:50.140 --> 36:54.040 Pay very much attention, as boring and as dry as it may be in the earlier classes. 36:54.200 --> 37:00.200 Learn those fundamental concepts of being a system analyst or a programmer, 37:00.360 --> 37:02.560 and you'll be able to adapt to anything. 37:03.920 --> 37:04.980 Now, what was that one? 37:05.000 --> 37:05.700 Are you skateboarding? 37:06.540 --> 37:08.760 No, it's a motorcycle on my corner right here. 37:08.760 --> 37:13.440 All right, so let's see. 37:13.460 --> 37:14.920 I'm glad we're not on the payphone anymore. 37:15.100 --> 37:16.340 This stuff would have been real loud. 37:17.100 --> 37:17.280 Yeah. 37:17.700 --> 37:23.800 So, yeah, a lot of people call themselves programmers, and they just memorize a particular syntax, you know? 37:24.100 --> 37:26.920 Visual Basic, I'll use that from earlier, or C programming. 37:27.000 --> 37:31.060 And all they've done is memorized a bunch of C commands or a bunch of C functions, 37:31.060 --> 37:35.380 and if you try to get them to adapt to Pascal or anything else, they're lost. 37:35.440 --> 37:38.320 They can't do it because they don't understand fundamentally what's happening. 37:39.220 --> 37:43.300 And actually, a great example of this, this is like a way I, I won't say I test people, 37:43.340 --> 37:46.700 this is how I can really judge or understand if somebody knows what they're talking about, 37:46.700 --> 37:51.800 is shell coding, shell injection coding, understand what shell coding is. 37:52.240 --> 37:57.800 If you don't understand the fundamentals of memory management and how programs interface with system memory, 37:58.680 --> 38:01.560 and you try to understand shell code, you're just, you're not going to get it. 38:01.940 --> 38:02.940 You'll never get it. 38:02.980 --> 38:09.500 It's just completely, you can copy other people's syntax, and that's fine. 38:09.500 --> 38:11.460 You may get it to work, or you may be able to do it, 38:11.500 --> 38:15.600 but you're never going to understand it enough to write your own shell injection code 38:15.600 --> 38:18.960 if you don't understand the fundamental principles upon which it's built. 38:19.400 --> 38:24.340 If you don't understand that interaction of how, of memory management and things like that, 38:25.440 --> 38:29.300 it's just, I don't know, that's just an example, an application, 38:29.620 --> 38:33.860 and probably need to move on from this letter, but there's some advice. 38:33.980 --> 38:37.620 Take it for what it's worth, and thank you very much, Tim, for the letter. 38:37.620 --> 38:43.480 That was a good letter, and hopefully some people found that enjoyable or interesting. 38:44.920 --> 38:45.520 Now, let's take a look. 38:45.520 --> 38:46.740 Hey, how are we doing on time, Stank? 38:47.060 --> 38:48.840 That's what I'm looking at right now. 38:50.440 --> 38:50.940 Let's see. 38:51.020 --> 38:55.260 Let's do a couple quick emails, and then we'll move on, 38:55.320 --> 38:59.420 because I know you're, actually, our main topic is going to be all you this week, 38:59.520 --> 39:02.480 so I want to make sure we give enough time to that. 39:02.540 --> 39:04.220 Let's do a quick couple of these short emails. 39:04.220 --> 39:06.160 The next email is from Falcon Zero. 39:06.160 --> 39:08.540 Falcon Zero says, 39:09.140 --> 39:13.740 I've been listening for a long while, since the time before the current email intro. 39:14.240 --> 39:16.720 Recently, the show has been teaching me new words. 39:17.580 --> 39:19.020 It has been teaching me new words. 39:19.100 --> 39:22.660 My vocabulary now includes words such as E-fucking-leet, 39:23.200 --> 39:24.800 and its antonym, noobish. 39:25.300 --> 39:26.120 Keep it up. 39:27.280 --> 39:29.860 I think we probably both contribute to that a little bit, don't we? 39:29.860 --> 39:30.700 Not as much as lucky. 39:31.460 --> 39:32.440 Oh, God, no. 39:32.440 --> 39:33.600 You know what? 39:33.640 --> 39:34.560 I don't care what people say. 39:34.660 --> 39:37.860 E-leet speak, I think, is really funny, as long as you don't use it, 39:38.060 --> 39:40.320 as long as you use it in moderation, if you don't go overboard. 39:40.540 --> 39:42.140 Once again, case in point, lucky. 39:43.380 --> 39:47.020 Yeah, moderation is something, I don't know. 39:48.300 --> 39:49.260 And actually, today you've had... 39:49.260 --> 39:50.540 It's very, very low use. 39:51.540 --> 39:54.240 It's starting to bug me more and more, elite speak. 39:54.440 --> 39:55.860 But me and Nott, they always do it. 39:55.940 --> 39:56.580 We always joke. 39:56.780 --> 39:59.520 OMG hacks, total life-bearing, stuff like that. 39:59.640 --> 40:02.080 Yeah, it's funny in small doses. 40:03.400 --> 40:05.060 And today, I think, what was I going to say? 40:05.060 --> 40:07.520 Oh, today I learned, I used, I think I used lolling. 40:07.600 --> 40:09.200 Yeah, I was lolling earlier at the email. 40:09.880 --> 40:10.880 So there's another one for you. 40:11.040 --> 40:11.260 Yeah. 40:12.220 --> 40:13.860 All right, um... 40:13.860 --> 40:17.780 Are you trying to pick up a prostitute on the show? 40:18.760 --> 40:19.000 Me? 40:19.240 --> 40:19.560 Yeah. 40:19.700 --> 40:20.080 How'd you know? 40:20.280 --> 40:21.500 Because I heard her in the background. 40:22.260 --> 40:22.880 Oh, okay, yeah. 40:23.000 --> 40:23.520 May I shut up? 40:23.540 --> 40:23.940 You're over here. 40:24.500 --> 40:25.160 I'm business after. 40:26.200 --> 40:28.420 We should get, like, some random person on the show. 40:28.520 --> 40:29.620 Just hand the phone off. 40:30.820 --> 40:31.280 I will. 40:31.540 --> 40:32.040 I should. 40:32.140 --> 40:32.980 You should call the pay phone, 40:33.060 --> 40:34.520 and we should just tell someone it's for them. 40:34.580 --> 40:36.720 Oh, yeah, you can stand over on the side on your cell phone, 40:36.760 --> 40:37.840 and we can watch what's happening. 40:39.580 --> 40:40.440 Oh, that'd be funny. 40:40.520 --> 40:41.080 No, we'll do that. 40:41.080 --> 40:41.680 You know what? 40:41.680 --> 40:43.040 We'll do that in a Freak Factor one week. 40:43.720 --> 40:43.980 Okay. 40:44.360 --> 40:44.640 All right. 40:45.000 --> 40:45.860 Inside Threat. 40:46.360 --> 40:48.180 The next email comes from Inside Threat. 40:48.300 --> 40:49.080 Inside Threat says, 40:49.160 --> 40:52.220 I enjoyed episode 96 with a discussion on Google mining. 40:52.780 --> 40:55.320 Lately, I've been using a tool, Google Sweep, 40:55.760 --> 40:59.960 that uses the Google API to perform searches on each IP address 40:59.960 --> 41:02.640 and host name in a subnet for a company or whatever. 41:03.100 --> 41:06.600 I found interesting information on what websites people at the companies visit 41:06.600 --> 41:09.500 from their workstations in public web server logs. 41:09.500 --> 41:13.620 It's mailing lists, posts, policy documents, connection instructions for servers, 41:13.740 --> 41:16.760 default password, and lots of other information. 41:17.640 --> 41:21.900 You may want to recommend this to your readers as a good reconnaissance tool. 41:21.900 --> 41:23.720 Well, there you go. 41:23.960 --> 41:24.680 It is done. 41:24.760 --> 41:27.860 And for the record, for our listeners, it's a Python-based tool, 41:28.100 --> 41:31.420 and it is available on Freshmeat, I believe. 41:31.600 --> 41:35.140 I think it's, yikes, I should have looked this up before the show. 41:35.300 --> 41:39.620 I think it's googlesweep.freshmeat.net, but I wouldn't swear by it. 41:39.620 --> 41:40.520 I'm sure you can find it. 41:43.480 --> 41:43.980 Let's see. 41:44.060 --> 41:45.760 I've got one more email. 41:47.300 --> 41:48.320 It's kind of long. 41:48.400 --> 41:48.640 You know what? 41:48.640 --> 41:49.400 I'm going to go ahead and do it. 41:49.420 --> 41:50.660 I'll just read it quickly, all right? 41:50.700 --> 41:51.540 And then we'll move on. 41:52.140 --> 41:52.320 Okay. 41:52.420 --> 41:53.860 This email is from Snow. 41:53.860 --> 41:55.080 Snow says, 41:55.180 --> 41:56.820 Dear Stankdog and co-host, 41:56.920 --> 42:00.320 I first heard about BinRev six weeks ago on the Linuxlink.net 42:00.320 --> 42:01.860 and have been hooked ever since. 42:01.940 --> 42:03.500 I've been listening to your shows from episode one, 42:03.580 --> 42:04.920 and now I'm on 42. 42:05.400 --> 42:07.600 I'm also listening to your current shows, of course. 42:07.600 --> 42:07.880 Cool. 42:08.620 --> 42:11.920 I just want to say that BinRev is by far the best radio show I've ever listened to. 42:12.360 --> 42:12.820 Yeah, right. 42:13.260 --> 42:14.460 You're a great show host, Stank, 42:14.500 --> 42:16.340 and your show is both fun and educational. 42:16.460 --> 42:19.900 I'd like to thank you all and all your contributors for creating Binary Revolution. 42:20.580 --> 42:24.240 And actually, I'll take a moment to thank everyone that's helped make Binary Revolution, 42:24.420 --> 42:25.560 because it certainly isn't all me. 42:25.700 --> 42:27.120 It's very little me, actually. 42:27.940 --> 42:31.720 All the co-hosts that we've ever had have helped make this show what it is, 42:31.780 --> 42:34.280 so I'm glad that people are still enjoying it. 42:35.080 --> 42:35.480 Okay. 42:35.560 --> 42:36.120 Anyway, let's see. 42:36.160 --> 42:37.140 Back to the email here. 42:37.980 --> 42:41.400 On a side note, I've discovered something, I think, that perhaps not everyone knew. 42:41.880 --> 42:44.060 Recently, I switched to a new host for my website, 42:44.560 --> 42:46.520 and as I'm a person who appreciates privacy, 42:46.660 --> 42:50.920 I decided that I didn't want my name and address to be accessible for anyone through Whois. 42:51.560 --> 42:55.460 It just so happened that my current registrar didn't give me the option to change my name, 42:55.560 --> 42:57.940 only my address, email, and my phone number. 42:57.940 --> 43:02.240 So I contacted the registrar by email and explained that I would like to change my name 43:02.240 --> 43:06.680 and the Whois database to something that can't be linked to me directly as I care for my privacy. 43:07.060 --> 43:12.200 The answer I received was that this was not possible and is against ICANN rules. 43:12.200 --> 43:19.840 So I'll skip a little bit, but basically he looked up the rules, and I'm going to read a couple of them from here. 43:19.840 --> 43:21.780 I'm going to skip a couple. 43:21.840 --> 43:25.740 I'm going to go straight to the one that I want to address here, 43:25.740 --> 43:35.500 and that is 3.7.7.1 and 3.7.7.2, both of which I'm just going to read continuously. 43:35.660 --> 43:40.780 The registered name holder shall provide to the registrar accurate and reliable contact details 43:40.780 --> 43:44.900 and promptly correct and update them during the term of the registered name registration, 43:45.420 --> 43:49.460 including the full name, postal address, email address, voice telephone number, and fax number, 43:49.920 --> 43:51.760 if available, of the registered name holder. 43:51.760 --> 43:55.480 Name of authorized person for contact purposes in the case of a registered name holder 43:55.480 --> 43:57.400 that is an organization, association, or corporation. 43:58.800 --> 44:00.140 And here's the more important. 44:00.240 --> 44:01.540 This is 3.7.7.2. 44:02.060 --> 44:07.320 A registered name holder's willful provision of inaccurate or unreliable information, 44:07.780 --> 44:12.120 its willful failure promptly to update information provided to registrar, 44:12.320 --> 44:18.240 or its failure to respond for over 15 calendar days to inquiries by registrar 44:18.240 --> 44:23.020 concerning the accuracy of contact details, as the horn honks in the background, 44:23.740 --> 44:26.720 associated with the registered name holder's registration 44:26.720 --> 44:32.080 shall constitute a material breach of the registered name holder registrar contract 44:32.080 --> 44:36.840 and be a basis for the cancellation of the registered name registration. 44:37.620 --> 44:39.120 Wow, that was like a tongue twister. 44:39.120 --> 44:47.440 So, anyway, he basically says he's not sure that everyone's aware of this rule, 44:47.680 --> 44:49.980 so that's why I wanted to address this on the air. 44:50.400 --> 44:51.820 So, thank you, Snow, for the email. 44:52.500 --> 44:54.960 I actually thought that this was very common knowledge. 44:55.060 --> 44:58.220 I thought that most people knew this, but maybe not, 44:58.300 --> 45:01.400 so I wanted to spend just a second to read these on the air, 45:01.660 --> 45:05.380 because especially the U.S. government, they were trying, 45:05.380 --> 45:09.080 I don't know if they still are, but they were trying to make it an actual law 45:09.080 --> 45:12.340 that people have to use real information when they register sites. 45:12.480 --> 45:14.860 I don't know what the status of that is, if it got shot down, 45:14.920 --> 45:16.640 if it's still ongoing or whatever, 45:16.900 --> 45:18.940 but I thought they were actually trying to pass a law 45:18.940 --> 45:22.660 to make it fully illegal to post false information. 45:23.760 --> 45:25.700 Hopefully that'll never stick, and hopefully that dropped. 45:25.940 --> 45:27.360 Honestly, I don't know what the status is, 45:27.400 --> 45:29.400 so if anybody's familiar with that, email us. 45:30.380 --> 45:34.760 And I even remember posting on Slashdot how much I disagreed with this, 45:34.760 --> 45:37.420 because I also believe I have a right to privacy, 45:37.880 --> 45:40.440 and I shouldn't have to give out that information just to have a website. 45:41.120 --> 45:43.280 I used to use, and Addis, you're aware of this, 45:43.300 --> 45:45.820 I used to have my real name, real address, real phone number, 45:45.840 --> 45:47.340 and everything on my site for years, 45:48.120 --> 45:50.940 and it wasn't until just after I started BinRev 45:50.940 --> 45:55.100 that I finally removed my real information from the Whois records 45:55.100 --> 45:56.240 and changed it from the registrar. 45:56.240 --> 46:01.000 And, you know, it's those 2 and 3 a.m. phone calls 46:01.000 --> 46:04.260 from disgruntled fucktards calling me 46:04.260 --> 46:06.740 that'll make you want to change that real quick. 46:07.740 --> 46:08.260 You know? 46:09.300 --> 46:11.520 I have a right to not be harassed. 46:11.560 --> 46:12.580 There's no doubt about that. 46:12.680 --> 46:13.920 I don't have to put up with that. 46:14.180 --> 46:16.800 And forcing me to put my real name in there, 46:17.020 --> 46:19.300 I don't see how they can... 46:19.300 --> 46:21.640 Anyway, that's a moral discussion we won't go into. 46:21.640 --> 46:24.340 Well, there is a solution, right? 46:24.400 --> 46:28.080 I mean, the registrar should provide the service 46:28.080 --> 46:31.080 where it hides, it masks your information, right? 46:31.900 --> 46:33.440 Don't all registrars offer that? 46:34.000 --> 46:37.520 Not all of them, but most of the good, reputable ones absolutely do. 46:38.320 --> 46:39.540 However, I have a... 46:39.540 --> 46:40.800 And this is a personal problem. 46:40.920 --> 46:42.660 This is a personal judgment for me. 46:43.000 --> 46:45.040 I don't feel I should have to pay for privacy. 46:45.440 --> 46:47.160 And that's a pay service. 46:47.320 --> 46:49.900 And I don't believe that I should have to pay for my own privacy. 46:49.900 --> 46:51.100 See, privacy is a right. 46:51.780 --> 46:53.300 It is a right, not a privilege. 46:53.420 --> 46:55.000 I have a right to privacy. 46:55.140 --> 46:57.020 And it's not a privilege that I should have to pay for. 46:57.480 --> 47:00.200 So fundamentally, I refuse to do it that way. 47:00.300 --> 47:00.900 I just put... 47:02.240 --> 47:04.560 Well, I'm not going to come out and say what I put 47:04.560 --> 47:06.200 because I'm not going to put it on the air. 47:06.320 --> 47:08.340 But I can tell you this. 47:08.480 --> 47:09.820 And in the quote earlier, 47:09.940 --> 47:11.680 here's the important part that I want to emphasize. 47:14.220 --> 47:17.600 They rarely act on these things, first of all. 47:17.600 --> 47:21.880 Very rarely do the registrars follow up or act on this unless somebody complains. 47:22.240 --> 47:23.760 And if they do, here's the important part. 47:24.060 --> 47:28.300 You have 15 days to respond to any complaint 47:28.300 --> 47:31.080 and prove who you really are and give you real information. 47:31.620 --> 47:34.600 As long as you provide at least one valid email address 47:34.600 --> 47:36.620 or a phone number or something that they can contact you 47:36.620 --> 47:39.140 when they do get a complaint, you should be fine. 47:39.640 --> 47:39.880 Okay? 47:39.880 --> 47:43.040 They're going to make you change your information 47:43.040 --> 47:45.260 and make it, quote, valid or whatever. 47:45.480 --> 47:48.920 And, of course, you should put in your real information when that happens. 47:49.760 --> 47:52.380 You know, I'm putting real in quotation marks as well. 47:52.460 --> 47:55.800 You put in new information when they challenge you to. 47:55.800 --> 48:00.660 So as long as they have a way to contact you, an email or whatever, 48:01.220 --> 48:04.220 in 15 days you can make a change and you should be fine. 48:05.180 --> 48:07.140 If they then file another complaint, 48:07.260 --> 48:10.060 then you can keep going on with that cycle as long as you want to. 48:10.500 --> 48:12.380 It can get annoying if somebody wants to do that, 48:12.440 --> 48:14.600 but there is a way to continually do that. 48:14.860 --> 48:17.600 Or if you don't want to, then, yes, you can break down and pay. 48:17.700 --> 48:21.000 As Natis says, they have services for most reputable registrars 48:21.000 --> 48:23.660 that will protect you, protect your privacy. 48:24.000 --> 48:27.460 So another thing that you can do, and I can tell you this, 48:27.820 --> 48:30.840 I know this for a fact, I can tell you this personally, 48:31.660 --> 48:34.600 that if they want to keep filing complaints against you, 48:34.640 --> 48:36.380 what you can do is change registrars. 48:36.840 --> 48:39.980 Not because any registrar is going to be different than the other one exactly, 48:40.540 --> 48:42.320 but once you leave a registrar, 48:43.660 --> 48:47.540 that registrar is no longer going to pursue you with any of their complaints 48:47.540 --> 48:49.120 because you're not their problem anymore. 48:49.260 --> 48:50.680 You've taken your business somewhere else. 48:51.000 --> 48:51.260 Whoa! 48:52.140 --> 48:54.080 You've taken your business somewhere else. 48:54.100 --> 48:55.420 That was a loud horn. 48:56.720 --> 48:58.040 They almost took somebody out. 48:58.320 --> 48:58.900 Should I remind you? 48:58.900 --> 49:01.840 Oh, man, if there was a wreck live on the show, that would be awesome. 49:01.960 --> 49:04.140 We could go, like, interview them immediately and hear them cussing. 49:04.180 --> 49:04.700 That would be awesome. 49:05.320 --> 49:06.280 Whoa, that would be pretty cool. 49:06.400 --> 49:06.560 Yeah. 49:06.660 --> 49:07.280 We can only hope. 49:07.560 --> 49:07.760 Yeah. 49:08.300 --> 49:09.580 Go jump out in front of somebody. 49:12.100 --> 49:15.360 So anyway, yeah, if you move from one registrar to another one, 49:15.600 --> 49:19.040 the registrar that you're leaving, you're not their problem anymore. 49:19.140 --> 49:20.420 They don't care what the hell happens to you. 49:20.420 --> 49:23.680 They're not going to follow up on the complaint because you're not their customer anymore. 49:24.020 --> 49:27.160 So that's one other trick that you can do is jump to a different registrar. 49:27.160 --> 49:33.760 And it's going to take a little time for all that information to propagate and spread out 49:33.760 --> 49:35.760 and know that you've gone to a new registrar. 49:36.160 --> 49:41.760 Again, with privacy-protected information, I'll use that term instead of fake, 49:42.000 --> 49:44.940 privacy-protected information, with your new registrar, 49:45.040 --> 49:47.340 the person's going to have to pursue you to your new registrar, 49:47.440 --> 49:50.760 file a new complaint with said registrar, and start the process again. 49:50.760 --> 49:54.460 So there's a lot of different delay tactics and ways that you can move and dodge. 49:55.220 --> 49:57.360 It depends on how persistent they're going to be. 49:57.460 --> 50:01.160 I can tell you that that worked for me. 50:01.360 --> 50:08.320 I was able to avoid my situation by changing registrars, changing back to a registrar. 50:08.420 --> 50:11.160 And you can go back and forth between registrars if you want to. 50:12.100 --> 50:15.440 So if your registrar won't let you change your name, your real name, 50:15.480 --> 50:17.960 which he says it won't let him change at all, you need to find a better registrar. 50:18.060 --> 50:21.780 Seriously, most registrars don't want to have to deal with pettiness like this 50:21.780 --> 50:22.840 and worrying about little things. 50:23.160 --> 50:25.400 They just want to churn as many customers as they can. 50:27.120 --> 50:32.220 There's very little punishment and very little action that gets taken by ICANN to punish registrars. 50:32.540 --> 50:35.900 So they're just trying to do as little as necessary to make ICANN happy. 50:37.420 --> 50:40.500 So yeah, find a new registrar if they're not letting you change your real name. 50:41.160 --> 50:46.660 All right, well, let's do, let's see, we've got about 30 minutes. 50:46.940 --> 50:53.720 Let's do some quick show and tell, which is very quick because most of my week, 50:54.620 --> 50:58.820 and I don't know how much time you spent on this, most of my time this week has been spent, 50:58.980 --> 51:04.440 well, something DEF CON related it sounds like, putting the final touches on my presentation 51:04.440 --> 51:07.760 or my presentation submission for DEF CON, 51:08.480 --> 51:14.960 and planning for DEF CON as far as hotels, transportation, time off of work, and that type of stuff. 51:15.620 --> 51:19.160 And other than that, we do have some software upgrades coming to the site here, 51:19.400 --> 51:21.940 probably by the end of the week that you're hearing this. 51:22.160 --> 51:24.940 So there will be some probable downtime, 51:24.940 --> 51:28.200 and I don't know what kind of notice we're going to be able to give you. 51:28.300 --> 51:29.400 It's going to be minimal, of course. 51:29.480 --> 51:32.760 We're always mindful that we don't want to take the site down for too long, 51:32.860 --> 51:35.980 but don't be surprised if the site goes down for a few hours. 51:36.840 --> 51:38.440 And that's it, working on DEF CON. 51:38.600 --> 51:41.460 And I don't know if you had anything you wanted to talk about here 51:41.460 --> 51:44.700 or if you wanted to go straight into your main topic. 51:44.700 --> 51:47.200 No, I don't know. 51:47.240 --> 51:48.420 We covered DEF CON a little bit. 51:48.540 --> 51:50.180 That's kind of... 51:50.180 --> 51:52.540 I know you were working on, like, your presentation and stuff. 51:52.580 --> 51:54.500 I don't know what I'm going to do about DEF CON, really. 51:54.640 --> 51:59.060 I think I'm going to try and present with Strom and Black Ratchet, 51:59.240 --> 52:00.180 but that's not final. 52:01.900 --> 52:04.700 Okay, well, or maybe... 52:04.700 --> 52:05.980 DDP will be in the house. 52:06.200 --> 52:06.680 Oh, yeah. 52:06.800 --> 52:07.220 For sure. 52:07.540 --> 52:09.180 Yeah, we'll definitely be... 52:09.180 --> 52:10.720 We'll have a little DDP party, 52:10.720 --> 52:14.880 like the little cartoon in the first issue of the magazine. 52:16.300 --> 52:18.780 Little stick figures with the 40-ounce Dr. Pepper. 52:21.300 --> 52:21.880 All right. 52:21.960 --> 52:25.200 Well, or, you know, maybe you can present on tonight's topic. 52:25.400 --> 52:28.020 I mean, this is... 52:28.020 --> 52:30.860 First of all, I'll go ahead and say this up front, 52:30.980 --> 52:33.060 that I'm a little bit lost in this. 52:33.140 --> 52:34.620 You blow me away in this area, 52:34.620 --> 52:36.620 because I don't even know... 52:36.620 --> 52:39.360 I have not gotten to spend a whole lot of time, 52:39.360 --> 52:41.600 and I've said this before with asterisk 52:41.600 --> 52:43.580 and with telephony in general, 52:43.720 --> 52:46.140 and I'm not a big freak for the most part. 52:46.180 --> 52:47.360 Everything I've learned about freaking, 52:47.500 --> 52:48.580 I've learned from you guys. 52:48.880 --> 52:50.880 So this is going to be another one of those episodes 52:50.880 --> 52:52.720 where I'm going to be sitting back and listening 52:52.720 --> 52:55.120 and probably asking some stupid questions 52:55.120 --> 52:57.760 as you go through talking about... 52:57.760 --> 53:00.120 I guess our main topic is going to be VoIP tapping. 53:01.140 --> 53:01.440 Right. 53:01.600 --> 53:04.940 Kind of VoIP tapping and, like, monitoring, intercepting. 53:05.540 --> 53:06.140 I don't know. 53:06.420 --> 53:07.640 It's not really tapping, I guess. 53:07.640 --> 53:08.820 I used the wrong word. 53:09.360 --> 53:09.800 Okay. 53:11.320 --> 53:12.440 Monitoring or intercepting. 53:13.320 --> 53:14.760 So, I don't know. 53:14.800 --> 53:16.020 It's been, like, a big thing lately. 53:16.140 --> 53:17.000 There's been a lot of talk. 53:17.080 --> 53:18.660 Everybody's trying to secure VoIP. 53:19.280 --> 53:21.300 I don't know if you saw anything about that. 53:21.460 --> 53:22.600 Yeah, I see quite a few... 53:23.500 --> 53:25.600 Actually, I did not really... 53:26.480 --> 53:28.940 I've seen in my trade magazines... 53:28.940 --> 53:30.520 Let me put a complete sentence together here. 53:30.540 --> 53:32.100 I've seen in a lot of my trade magazines 53:32.100 --> 53:33.500 that I get, and I get, you know, 53:33.560 --> 53:34.660 three or four a week, 53:34.660 --> 53:38.620 that there is a concern over voice, 53:38.620 --> 53:41.880 over VoIP privacy and VoIP security in general. 53:42.300 --> 53:46.280 I don't know that I've necessarily seen anything on monitoring like this, 53:46.280 --> 53:48.460 but, yes, it is definitely a hot topic 53:48.460 --> 53:51.740 because VoIP spreading to the homes, 53:52.160 --> 53:53.840 which is interesting that it went to homes first 53:53.840 --> 53:55.000 and now businesses second. 53:55.960 --> 53:58.000 To the home, it's not quite... 53:58.000 --> 54:00.260 People aren't quite as worried so much about security. 54:00.400 --> 54:01.440 They just want cheap phones 54:01.440 --> 54:03.780 because they're tired of the phone companies raping them. 54:03.780 --> 54:07.800 But companies and businesses are very mindful of security, 54:07.980 --> 54:10.280 and as VoIP starts to roll out in the business community, 54:10.980 --> 54:13.660 definitely security is something that they're taking note of. 54:14.400 --> 54:14.620 Mm-hmm. 54:15.500 --> 54:16.520 And they need to. 54:16.960 --> 54:17.440 Absolutely. 54:19.540 --> 54:24.060 So, yeah, basically I've been playing with a lot of, like, software... 54:24.060 --> 54:24.600 Sorry. 54:25.460 --> 54:28.120 I've been playing with a lot of software and stuff lately. 54:30.220 --> 54:31.460 Stuff that I've read about. 54:31.460 --> 54:34.120 The main thing, the main program I've been using 54:34.120 --> 54:35.320 is called Cane Enable. 54:35.760 --> 54:38.820 It's actually from Oxid.it, 54:39.600 --> 54:41.660 and it's Windows-only software, 54:42.140 --> 54:43.240 which is kind of weird, 54:43.340 --> 54:45.600 and I basically have Windows, like, on a laptop 54:45.600 --> 54:46.880 just so I can use this. 54:47.420 --> 54:47.800 Really? 54:48.440 --> 54:48.880 Yeah. 54:49.760 --> 54:54.780 You don't run it in a virtual window on your Mac? 54:55.760 --> 54:56.200 No. 54:56.500 --> 54:58.180 I don't think they're powerful enough. 54:58.360 --> 55:00.940 Like, I don't really have, like, the fastest computers or anything. 55:00.940 --> 55:02.580 Ah, gotcha. 55:02.740 --> 55:06.580 So I just have some cheesy $100 Windows laptop I got, 55:07.340 --> 55:09.860 and I've been playing with Cane Enable, 55:10.540 --> 55:14.840 and version 2.65, I think it was. 55:14.940 --> 55:16.020 That's what somebody told me. 55:16.240 --> 55:16.460 Right. 55:16.520 --> 55:19.280 It's up to 2.69 now. 55:19.640 --> 55:24.560 But 2.65 added basically the ability to read VoIP packets 55:24.560 --> 55:25.980 and convert them to WAV files. 55:26.680 --> 55:27.240 Right. 55:27.240 --> 55:29.140 It makes everything, like, really easy, 55:29.380 --> 55:33.620 and it supports a lot of codecs. 55:35.200 --> 55:38.740 I mean, it supports pretty much, like, all these ones I don't even know about. 55:38.840 --> 55:40.880 All the main ones, like, G711 ULAW, 55:40.880 --> 55:50.120 G711 ALAW, GSM, Speaks, ILBC, and there's, like, all these other ones, 55:50.160 --> 55:51.240 but I don't even know what they are. 55:51.840 --> 55:54.400 PCM, DVI-4, LPC. 55:55.340 --> 55:59.700 There's two different GSM ones that supports, GSM 610 and Microsoft GSM, 55:59.700 --> 56:04.140 L16, G729. 56:04.760 --> 56:06.060 All right, so it supports a lot. 56:06.680 --> 56:07.940 Yeah, it supports a lot. 56:08.820 --> 56:14.120 And so I've been playing with that a lot, messing with different codecs, 56:14.220 --> 56:19.840 and one thing I found out was that this is, like, the first thing that I checked, basically, 56:19.980 --> 56:25.940 was that it doesn't work with Asterisk IX2 protocol. 56:25.940 --> 56:27.600 It doesn't work with any of that stuff. 56:27.860 --> 56:30.160 It kind of, like, starts to find it. 56:30.480 --> 56:33.440 Like, it shows up as a call in the logs, 56:33.480 --> 56:36.820 but it can't actually convert it to a WAV for you, 56:36.920 --> 56:39.100 even if it uses those codecs. 56:39.600 --> 56:41.020 It's a different protocol, I guess. 56:41.080 --> 56:43.380 And I found out that it does work with H323, 56:44.100 --> 56:46.320 but I don't really think anybody even uses that. 56:46.400 --> 56:47.920 I mean, businesses use that sometimes, 56:48.060 --> 56:50.220 but that's not really something people in their home use. 56:50.400 --> 56:51.140 And what about SIP? 56:52.320 --> 56:52.860 SIP, yeah. 56:52.860 --> 56:56.000 SIP is, that's basically what it is. 56:56.080 --> 56:58.760 All these protocols that I mentioned, those are with SIP. 56:59.100 --> 56:59.760 Oh, okay. 57:00.680 --> 57:05.760 Well, now, the IAX2, is that not working because you think it's buggy, 57:05.860 --> 57:08.680 or they do not have proper support for it at all? 57:08.740 --> 57:12.540 I mean, you think it's something they're working on that just is not quite ready yet, or? 57:12.720 --> 57:13.040 I don't know. 57:13.100 --> 57:14.440 I actually emailed them about that. 57:14.460 --> 57:16.700 I was wondering, because I haven't really found, 57:16.780 --> 57:19.220 I've been trying to do this stuff for a while with IAX2, 57:19.220 --> 57:22.120 but I haven't found anything that does it reliably, really. 57:22.900 --> 57:23.140 Okay. 57:23.340 --> 57:26.120 Well, if we hear back from them, we'll read it on the air. 57:26.940 --> 57:27.240 Yeah. 57:28.260 --> 57:31.280 They have asterisks on their site, too, under the VoIP section, 57:31.460 --> 57:33.080 so it might be something they're working on. 57:33.760 --> 57:34.080 Okay. 57:34.640 --> 57:36.540 Well, that was, like, the first thing I tested, basically, 57:36.640 --> 57:40.260 and it was kind of interesting, because I'm a big asterisk fan, as you know. 57:40.400 --> 57:40.760 Right. 57:40.760 --> 57:43.920 But, I don't know, Cane's really cool, 57:44.000 --> 57:48.900 because you do the whole art poisoning thing, you know, art poison routing, all that stuff. 57:48.960 --> 57:52.540 You can basically intercept all the VoIP traffic on a network. 57:52.740 --> 57:55.720 You poison a route, and everything goes through your computer, 57:55.900 --> 58:00.620 and you sniff everything, and then you cannot easily convert it back to the wave. 58:00.620 --> 58:05.220 And this is something I was doing on my own network, basically, for testing. 58:05.820 --> 58:08.360 And I know we had a thread on the forums about it. 58:08.700 --> 58:09.040 Right. 58:09.040 --> 58:11.420 And a bunch of people were saying, like, yeah, wow, 58:11.500 --> 58:15.440 it's really easy to do with SIF and everything, and it was working really good. 58:16.320 --> 58:21.780 I just actually tested it out on some neighbor's networks, too. 58:22.200 --> 58:23.980 With their permission, of course. 58:24.740 --> 58:25.040 Yeah. 58:26.080 --> 58:31.280 But, see, because my network, I have web on, and I do everything. 58:31.820 --> 58:35.100 I was trying everything on that, and I was getting really crappy results. 58:35.640 --> 58:37.260 It wouldn't pick up my router. 58:37.260 --> 58:39.940 It wouldn't pick up my laptop that everything was running on. 58:40.440 --> 58:44.640 It just wasn't finding them, and I wasn't sure why, but web has something to do with it. 58:44.700 --> 58:50.660 Even though I'm associated with the network, it's still not finding the host, 58:50.860 --> 58:52.580 and it's not working reliably for me. 58:52.940 --> 58:56.700 So I had to try it on my neighbor's network, and they had web off. 58:56.700 --> 59:00.480 And I tried that on there last night while I was, like, writing all these notes up and everything, 59:00.620 --> 59:04.560 and everything worked fine on their network, so it was really easy. 59:04.640 --> 59:08.040 It's something a lot of people have been talking about since this came out. 59:08.140 --> 59:13.080 I mean, just the fact that people can go to, like, somebody's, I don't know, 59:13.080 --> 59:19.700 just any unprotected networks now and just poison all their routes and intercept all their VoIP traffic. 59:19.700 --> 59:25.180 Well, how difficult is it to set up and get up and running for the first time? 59:26.920 --> 59:28.380 For the first time, it's really easy. 59:28.560 --> 59:31.680 Somebody sent me a video. 59:32.200 --> 59:34.600 It was, like, from Hacking Illustrated or something. 59:35.140 --> 59:39.140 That was basically what I used to learn it the first time, but it's really easy. 59:40.240 --> 59:44.820 Kane is, like, a really easy program to use, and so it's kind of funny. 59:44.820 --> 59:50.520 So would it be, how likely or how easy would it be, for example, 59:50.660 --> 59:53.460 I mean, you're right now walking around downtown New York City, 59:54.140 --> 59:58.860 you'd have bust out the laptop and just sit down in front of some business and start to go. 59:59.060 --> 59:59.320 I mean. 01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:00.420 Yeah. 01:00:00.620 --> 01:00:02.240 It could be done within, like, a minute. 01:00:02.600 --> 01:00:03.280 It's that simple. 01:00:03.400 --> 01:00:04.120 That's, wow. 01:00:05.040 --> 01:00:06.720 That's pretty cold. 01:00:07.540 --> 01:00:07.920 Yeah. 01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:09.720 I know. 01:00:09.720 --> 01:00:11.380 All right. 01:00:11.500 --> 01:00:18.680 Well, now, is that the only thing out there, or are there other packages to do this, or? 01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:21.400 No. 01:00:21.520 --> 01:00:23.020 There's actually other programs, too. 01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:28.300 I definitely found that Kane was the best, and I've been looking into this stuff, like, 01:00:28.340 --> 01:00:28.980 all last week. 01:00:29.020 --> 01:00:33.000 I was messing with it, and a lot of people have probably heard of Vomit before. 01:00:33.200 --> 01:00:34.280 It has a really cool name. 01:00:34.420 --> 01:00:38.680 I think it got voted, like, best application name of 2004 or something. 01:00:39.720 --> 01:00:46.560 But Vomit stands for VoiceOver Misconfigured Internet Telephony, or Internet Telephones, basically. 01:00:47.060 --> 01:00:48.600 And it was the first one that came out. 01:00:48.660 --> 01:00:50.200 It was, like, the first program that did this. 01:00:50.520 --> 01:00:53.340 I don't know if it was, like, a proof-of-concept thing or anything like that, 01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:56.160 but it came out, like, early 2000. 01:00:56.680 --> 01:01:00.260 Well, actually, I think one version came out a long time ago, like, 2001, 01:01:00.680 --> 01:01:02.180 and then an updated version. 01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:05.260 The last updated version came out in early 2004. 01:01:06.380 --> 01:01:08.540 And compared to Kane, it's not really that good. 01:01:08.540 --> 01:01:10.300 It only works on G711. 01:01:11.060 --> 01:01:17.120 I'm assuming that's G711 U-Law and A-Law, both American and European standards. 01:01:17.700 --> 01:01:18.880 That's the only thing it works? 01:01:19.020 --> 01:01:19.980 That's the only one it works on? 01:01:20.540 --> 01:01:20.940 Yeah. 01:01:21.100 --> 01:01:25.060 I mean, Kane has, like, that long list of all these protocols that I don't even know what they are. 01:01:25.140 --> 01:01:25.960 Or codecs, I'm sorry. 01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:27.180 I don't even know what the codecs are. 01:01:27.720 --> 01:01:27.980 Right. 01:01:27.980 --> 01:01:31.960 But G711 is the only codec that Vomint works on. 01:01:32.520 --> 01:01:36.000 It is Linux-based, though. 01:01:37.040 --> 01:01:38.840 So that's kind of cool. 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:39.820 Now, I'm sorry. 01:01:39.900 --> 01:01:40.840 Back to Kane. 01:01:40.960 --> 01:01:42.500 Kane, you said, was a Windows-based? 01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:43.420 Yeah. 01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:44.540 It's Windows-only. 01:01:44.700 --> 01:01:46.280 It's, like, a GUI program and everything. 01:01:46.660 --> 01:01:47.520 Oh, it's Windows-only. 01:01:47.600 --> 01:01:48.920 So it's not ported. 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:50.080 It's only in Windows. 01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:51.140 Yeah. 01:01:51.140 --> 01:01:53.300 Okay, and this one is only in Linux. 01:01:54.060 --> 01:01:54.340 Yep. 01:01:54.520 --> 01:01:54.800 Okay. 01:01:55.100 --> 01:01:55.680 All right, go ahead. 01:01:57.160 --> 01:01:59.940 So, yeah, it's kind of old, and it's not really good anymore. 01:02:00.540 --> 01:02:01.820 It lacks a lot of features. 01:02:03.040 --> 01:02:06.440 And I haven't played with it that much, basically, because it's so limited. 01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:09.020 But I guess it worked. 01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.160 Yeah, it's probably right. 01:02:11.160 --> 01:02:13.880 It was, like, the first program, or one of the very first programs, 01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:15.960 that would capture the Void packets 01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:21.540 and it would be able to reassemble them into a nice little WAV file for you or whatever. 01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:22.120 Right. 01:02:22.180 --> 01:02:22.800 And play it back. 01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:25.000 Yeah, it sounds like a proof of concept. 01:02:25.020 --> 01:02:26.800 And then there is another program, too. 01:02:27.480 --> 01:02:28.520 It's called Scappy. 01:02:28.720 --> 01:02:32.940 I just saw this the other day when I was at Barnes & Noble, 01:02:33.100 --> 01:02:37.020 and I was checking out Hacking Exposed 5th Edition or something like that. 01:02:37.140 --> 01:02:37.520 Right. 01:02:37.520 --> 01:02:42.100 And it has, like, a whole VoIP section and telephony chapter. 01:02:42.660 --> 01:02:44.120 So I was going through that, and at the end, 01:02:44.120 --> 01:02:47.460 they kind of just threw, like, maybe five pages together about this VoIP stuff. 01:02:48.180 --> 01:02:50.400 And they didn't actually, I don't think they actually talked about Kane. 01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.440 It might not have been out when they wrote it. 01:02:53.820 --> 01:02:55.700 But they talked about Vomit, of course. 01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:57.520 And then they talked about this other one, Scappy. 01:02:58.080 --> 01:03:01.580 And the website is secdev.org. 01:03:01.740 --> 01:03:05.120 Yeah, we'll put up all the links in the show notes afterwards. 01:03:05.200 --> 01:03:07.060 We'll definitely put up all these links for those of you 01:03:07.060 --> 01:03:08.740 who want to make sure you can check these out. 01:03:09.620 --> 01:03:09.900 Yeah. 01:03:10.700 --> 01:03:12.940 And so I haven't really played with this or anything, 01:03:12.940 --> 01:03:15.440 and I've been trying to look at the documentation all day 01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:19.400 and find out which codecs it supports and everything, 01:03:19.680 --> 01:03:21.280 but I didn't find out that much. 01:03:22.300 --> 01:03:24.800 So supposedly it's, like, an all-in-one program. 01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:26.600 It does all this stuff, art poisoning. 01:03:26.940 --> 01:03:30.220 It has all these, it has, like, all the stuff from Nmap built in. 01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:34.440 Basically it incorporates a lot of features from other security programs 01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:36.560 and utilities for one. 01:03:37.620 --> 01:03:38.320 But I don't know. 01:03:38.420 --> 01:03:40.280 I'm not sure how the whole VoIP thing works. 01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:41.720 I guess I can just read the packets. 01:03:42.300 --> 01:03:43.600 It's called VoIP Play. 01:03:44.720 --> 01:03:46.360 The feature's called VoIP Play. 01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:47.260 Okay. 01:03:47.460 --> 01:03:50.300 That's about as much as I know about that. 01:03:51.200 --> 01:03:52.220 But it looks kind of cool. 01:03:52.300 --> 01:03:52.960 It could be interesting. 01:03:53.140 --> 01:03:54.400 Like, they're still developing it. 01:03:55.160 --> 01:03:57.940 So it could be an up-and-coming program. 01:03:58.060 --> 01:03:59.300 It's obviously for Linux. 01:03:59.960 --> 01:04:00.240 Right. 01:04:00.240 --> 01:04:00.740 Stuff like that. 01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:07.500 And so the thing that got me into this in the first place, 01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:13.320 all this stuff, was about, what is it now, the end of May, almost June. 01:04:13.560 --> 01:04:13.800 Right. 01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:17.800 So, like, two months ago, this thing for Asterisk came out. 01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:19.060 It's called Chanspy. 01:04:20.040 --> 01:04:24.480 And this was in there before in the CVS, but it was only in there for a little bit, 01:04:24.540 --> 01:04:25.860 and it didn't work very good. 01:04:26.220 --> 01:04:26.540 Right. 01:04:26.720 --> 01:04:32.860 And so they started, they added this on March 24, 2005, to the CVS. 01:04:33.780 --> 01:04:35.980 And it's a pretty cool program. 01:04:35.980 --> 01:04:44.140 Basically, under PBX, you can monitor any call that's going on at the time. 01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:50.880 And they say that it's useful in a call center, you know, to monitor agents. 01:04:51.040 --> 01:04:54.500 And so that's basically, it's intended use. 01:04:55.300 --> 01:04:55.640 Right. 01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:57.180 I mean, I found it's pretty cool. 01:04:57.260 --> 01:05:01.380 You can just, like, put it on some random extension, dial in and listen to people. 01:05:01.940 --> 01:05:02.280 Right. 01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:05.660 Well, hey, we're listening in on people right behind you right now, apparently. 01:05:05.980 --> 01:05:08.760 Yeah, definitely 15 cell phone conversations are going on behind me. 01:05:09.240 --> 01:05:12.400 But, yeah, the call center, I mean, if you're, you know, 01:05:12.740 --> 01:05:16.920 this call may be monitored or whatever for quality assurance purposes and whatnot. 01:05:17.780 --> 01:05:18.740 Yeah, you never know. 01:05:18.820 --> 01:05:22.520 There might be somebody actually sitting in there cycling through these agents' calls. 01:05:22.680 --> 01:05:28.740 Yeah, I can tell you from experience that these telemarketing places, they have places. 01:05:28.740 --> 01:05:31.300 Did I just say places as though it were a normal word? 01:05:31.420 --> 01:05:32.040 Because it's not. 01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:33.700 Telemarketing places. 01:05:35.700 --> 01:05:40.380 They'll have, like, a manager who sits back there and just every once in a while will punch up one of the random people 01:05:40.380 --> 01:05:45.240 and listen to them just to make sure that they're not making personal calls or making sure they're, you know, 01:05:45.300 --> 01:05:47.160 giving their little spiel properly and whatnot. 01:05:47.160 --> 01:05:51.720 So, that's, I mean, that is, I'm sure, what it's intended to use is something similar to that. 01:05:53.720 --> 01:05:58.200 Well, yeah, ChansFi is really cool, though, because it does pretty much anything that works on Asterisk, 01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:06.580 like IAX2, SIP, ZapTel stuff, which is regular telephony hardware, normal potlines and stuff like that, 01:06:06.620 --> 01:06:09.300 normal telephones, just an H323. 01:06:09.300 --> 01:06:14.780 It can listen to anything, like, because you're actually doing it on the system while the call is going on. 01:06:14.940 --> 01:06:16.620 It just, I'm not sure how it works. 01:06:16.680 --> 01:06:17.880 Like, I need to look at the source. 01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:22.160 I want to look at the source, actually, and try and read it and see how everything works. 01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:25.760 But it's pretty cool because it works with, like, every VoIP protocol. 01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:34.480 Now, what is it, okay, let's, so it sounds like, listening to me, it sounds like, why would you use, 01:06:34.580 --> 01:06:38.940 when would you use Cain versus ChansFi? 01:06:40.900 --> 01:06:48.660 ChansFi you would do if it was, like, your own PBX, or if you somehow gained access to somebody's Asterisk. 01:06:48.820 --> 01:06:50.240 Oh, okay, I see. 01:06:51.160 --> 01:07:00.600 Yeah, but Cain is basically, like, you go in and you infiltrate their network and just set up ArtPoison and see. 01:07:00.780 --> 01:07:01.920 I don't know, it's really cool, though. 01:07:02.020 --> 01:07:02.500 Yeah, I know, yeah. 01:07:02.520 --> 01:07:03.640 It's important to do on your own network. 01:07:03.740 --> 01:07:08.580 If you want to monitor your own network or whatever, and you have, like, some Cisco phones or something, 01:07:09.060 --> 01:07:11.080 I think Cain would be really good. 01:07:11.640 --> 01:07:13.000 Yeah, very cool, very cool. 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:20.080 Now, what, for the one that is built into Asterisk, the ChansFi, what all can it do? 01:07:20.240 --> 01:07:21.060 I mean, what else can it do? 01:07:21.160 --> 01:07:24.100 Are there other things or other? 01:07:24.160 --> 01:07:30.460 Yeah, there's, yeah, there's a bunch of things, like, it can break into a line silently, you know, 01:07:30.640 --> 01:07:36.360 or it can play, it can announce a tone, it can do something to let people know that somebody came in there. 01:07:36.840 --> 01:07:42.520 It can spy on bridge calls, which is, like, where you call in and you call out, stuff like that. 01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:50.220 And you can adjust the volume, it's kind of cool, you just, like, press, I think, let's see, what is it, pound to adjust the volume. 01:07:51.180 --> 01:07:55.180 You can get, you can, like, blast them really loud and do a thing to them, I don't know. 01:07:56.100 --> 01:07:58.100 And, let's see, what else? 01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:04.920 There's a thing where it enforces groups, so you can kind of limit who you're monitoring, but I haven't played with that at all. 01:08:05.620 --> 01:08:06.680 Hmm, that's cool. 01:08:07.540 --> 01:08:07.860 Yeah. 01:08:07.860 --> 01:08:10.580 It works, it's really easy to use, too. 01:08:10.660 --> 01:08:17.120 You just basically set it up on an extension, and then you call that extension, and automatically starts cycling through it. 01:08:17.180 --> 01:08:24.680 It automatically finds the channel, if there's one open, and it breaks into it, and so it drops you right into the call. 01:08:25.200 --> 01:08:29.280 And then from there, you hit star, look for another channel. 01:08:29.460 --> 01:08:35.960 If there's more than one call going on, it'll just jump to the next one, and pound, like I said, that adjusts the volume and stuff. 01:08:35.960 --> 01:08:37.300 I think it's really cool, though. 01:08:38.500 --> 01:08:39.540 I don't know, it's a good program. 01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:41.000 There used to be these other ones. 01:08:41.320 --> 01:08:46.120 There used to be these other ones for Zaptel hardware only, and that was called ZapBarge. 01:08:46.860 --> 01:08:51.640 But, like I said, it only works on Zaptel channels, normal phone lines. 01:08:52.160 --> 01:08:55.920 Basically, you have to have the Zaptel hardware, which a lot of people don't have. 01:08:55.980 --> 01:08:59.120 They just set it up completely VoIP with the asterisk. 01:08:59.700 --> 01:09:00.060 Right. 01:09:00.320 --> 01:09:01.040 It's kind of cheaper. 01:09:01.160 --> 01:09:03.840 You don't have to buy any expensive hardware. 01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:08.700 All right, so if you know for certain that they're using Zap or whatever. 01:09:10.320 --> 01:09:14.960 You can still, with Chanspy, you can still spy on their Zaptel stuff, though. 01:09:15.300 --> 01:09:16.960 Oh, okay, well then, yeah. 01:09:17.340 --> 01:09:20.980 So there's really no need for ZapBarge anymore, even like Chanspy is that good. 01:09:21.400 --> 01:09:22.260 Right, awesome. 01:09:22.580 --> 01:09:23.060 Kind of cool. 01:09:24.440 --> 01:09:26.600 I don't know, I've been really psyched on these programs, though. 01:09:27.460 --> 01:09:28.980 It's been fun lately, messing with them. 01:09:28.980 --> 01:09:33.080 Yeah, have you been, what else have you been doing asterisk-wise? 01:09:33.140 --> 01:09:34.760 You got any other asterisk stuff to talk about? 01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:38.340 Yeah, well, we did the, I don't know. 01:09:38.500 --> 01:09:41.500 I didn't want to, wait a minute, I don't want to, I don't want to sidetrack you off of, 01:09:41.540 --> 01:09:45.100 I don't want to pull you off of this if you still wanted to, if you had any more stuff to talk about. 01:09:45.120 --> 01:09:46.160 No, I wanted to get into this. 01:09:46.280 --> 01:09:49.480 I wanted to get into the whole Super Caller ID program thing. 01:09:49.480 --> 01:09:53.500 I don't know if you saw, I don't know if you were following on the forums, but Strom basically 01:09:53.500 --> 01:10:00.180 came up with this really cool Super Caller ID program that he has running on this terminal 01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:06.860 in his house, and when he gets a call in his asterisk box, it just runs, it dumps the data 01:10:06.860 --> 01:10:09.820 into his program, and then it does some lookups. 01:10:10.600 --> 01:10:15.480 He actually has it using his LERD database, so he has like the official telephone information 01:10:15.480 --> 01:10:25.120 and stuff about the central offices and all that, but yeah, so this program, it gets like 01:10:25.120 --> 01:10:32.600 a bunch of information, it'll get the caller ID, the name, and then it'll use, well, his 01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:38.040 will check the LERD, and the one I made that I put on oldschoolfreak.com, that one checks 01:10:38.040 --> 01:10:44.280 Bell's Mind, and it grabs the data from Bell's Mind, and it grabs data from, what is it, 01:10:44.280 --> 01:10:50.240 waypages.com too, and it puts it all into this one like screen, and so basically you 01:10:50.240 --> 01:10:54.740 get all this information about who's calling, like a lot more than you would ever get from 01:10:54.740 --> 01:10:58.660 the telephone company, on your little car ID box. 01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:02.960 Cool, cool, and this is on oldschoolfreak.com you said? 01:11:03.660 --> 01:11:08.980 Yep, oldschoolfreak.com, and Strom basically came up with the idea, and I didn't have LERG, 01:11:08.980 --> 01:11:13.660 so I had to, I couldn't just take his code and use his, so I had to find something, some 01:11:13.660 --> 01:11:22.220 way to make like a duplicate program, so what I did was I used bm.pl by Duel, the Bell's 01:11:22.220 --> 01:11:23.960 Mind command line interface. 01:11:24.100 --> 01:11:26.320 That's Perl, you said bm.pl? 01:11:27.320 --> 01:11:30.100 I'm sorry, you broke up, did you say it was bm.pl, right? 01:11:30.160 --> 01:11:30.820 That's Perl script? 01:11:30.820 --> 01:11:37.300 Yeah, bm.pl, it's the Bell's Mind command line interface program that's dual made, so 01:11:37.300 --> 01:11:40.560 I took his code because it already looked up everything from Bell's Mind, and I just 01:11:40.560 --> 01:11:47.380 had to make some little modifications to the input that asterisk gives, that Bell's Mind, 01:11:47.820 --> 01:11:49.760 that asterisk puts into the program. 01:11:50.220 --> 01:11:50.600 All right. 01:11:50.600 --> 01:11:57.000 So, and then Strom gave me some code, too, he gave me his waypages.com lookup stuff, and 01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:01.020 we incorporated that in it, too, so it gets a lot more information, which is really cool. 01:12:01.120 --> 01:12:06.480 I've been using that, like, I set that up on all my lines and stuff, so I have a little 01:12:06.480 --> 01:12:13.840 terminal screen open on my laptop, and it watches the information as it comes in live. 01:12:15.140 --> 01:12:15.960 Very interesting. 01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:21.620 Yeah, it's kind of cool, it's a lot better than any car idea the phone company would ever 01:12:21.620 --> 01:12:22.220 offer, you know? 01:12:22.660 --> 01:12:24.780 All right, right, right. 01:12:26.020 --> 01:12:30.520 I wonder, what does it show, like, from our payphone we called from earlier? 01:12:30.600 --> 01:12:31.580 I wonder what that would show up. 01:12:31.700 --> 01:12:34.400 Well, I called you, actually, but... 01:12:34.400 --> 01:12:38.660 It would show the number, and then the CNAM would probably be, it would probably show 01:12:38.660 --> 01:12:44.240 a payphone, or just the city and state, and then it would try and look it up on white 01:12:44.240 --> 01:12:49.380 pages, and it probably wouldn't find anything, so that would be blank, but it would put it 01:12:49.380 --> 01:12:52.440 into Bell's Mind, and it would give you all the information about the CO. 01:12:53.120 --> 01:12:54.100 Yeah, I wonder if... 01:12:54.100 --> 01:12:58.240 You could see the address of the CO, so you'd know, like, what part of the city it was in. 01:12:58.740 --> 01:13:01.040 You'd see all the other exchanges that it serves. 01:13:01.340 --> 01:13:02.740 I wonder if you could tie it into Yapple. 01:13:03.740 --> 01:13:04.180 What's that? 01:13:04.180 --> 01:13:06.060 I wonder if it could be tied into Yapple. 01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:08.020 What's that? 01:13:08.120 --> 01:13:09.340 Oh, you had another payphone list? 01:13:09.420 --> 01:13:09.720 Right. 01:13:09.900 --> 01:13:14.100 I wonder if it could be tied into Black Ratchet's Yapple, which I know is also integrated with 01:13:14.100 --> 01:13:14.980 Bell's Mind. 01:13:15.920 --> 01:13:16.240 Mm-hmm. 01:13:17.240 --> 01:13:18.260 So that might be cool. 01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:21.100 Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff you could do with this now. 01:13:21.200 --> 01:13:21.480 I don't know. 01:13:22.020 --> 01:13:27.060 Strom had a really good idea, and I'm glad that, like, I found some way to do it without 01:13:27.060 --> 01:13:27.760 needing LURG. 01:13:28.820 --> 01:13:29.180 Right. 01:13:29.180 --> 01:13:34.180 So, yeah, shout-outs to, uh, Duel and Strom for their code. 01:13:35.220 --> 01:13:40.660 Yeah, I just, um, I just spoke to Duel the day before yesterday, and, um, trying to get 01:13:40.660 --> 01:13:43.240 him to come up to Vegas for DEFCON. 01:13:43.380 --> 01:13:45.220 He's not sure if he's going to be able to make it or not. 01:13:46.040 --> 01:13:47.800 Uh, yeah, I asked him about that, actually. 01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:49.400 I emailed him, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet. 01:13:49.620 --> 01:13:56.460 Yeah, he's, um, got work things to deal with, so he's tied down with work, so hopefully 01:13:56.460 --> 01:13:58.980 he can get away, but it probably will be a last-minute call. 01:13:59.180 --> 01:14:00.160 If he can make it or not. 01:14:01.140 --> 01:14:02.260 Yeah, that'd be really cool. 01:14:03.380 --> 01:14:04.240 So, um... 01:14:04.240 --> 01:14:05.180 Always good to see Duel. 01:14:05.440 --> 01:14:06.180 Check out old... 01:14:06.180 --> 01:14:11.100 We'll definitely have oldschoolfreak.com stickers for DEFCON, too, for all the dinner 01:14:11.100 --> 01:14:12.880 of people that know me. 01:14:13.240 --> 01:14:14.800 Gotta find me, I'll give you some stickers. 01:14:15.300 --> 01:14:18.020 Yeah, I don't know what we're gonna do for DEFCON. 01:14:18.180 --> 01:14:21.560 It's, it's ridiculously expensive to, like, set up a booth there. 01:14:22.360 --> 01:14:24.780 I mean, it's, it's just like, they don't want... 01:14:24.780 --> 01:14:27.140 I was blown away. 01:14:27.220 --> 01:14:28.720 I can't believe how much they want to set up. 01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:31.660 I mean, you can't set up just a small, people like us. 01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:32.380 How much do they want? 01:14:32.500 --> 01:14:33.500 Because I've never looked into it. 01:14:33.500 --> 01:14:34.540 I don't remember offhand. 01:14:34.620 --> 01:14:37.020 It was so much that I just said, what the hell? 01:14:37.060 --> 01:14:38.060 And I just closed it. 01:14:38.460 --> 01:14:40.100 I mean, it was just something outrageous. 01:14:41.100 --> 01:14:46.780 So, I, I don't know, unless I can call up and say, hey, you know, help a brother out, you know? 01:14:47.240 --> 01:14:48.960 Gee, man, I'm not trying to make money. 01:14:49.020 --> 01:14:52.340 I'm just trying to spread some information and let people out there, you know, find out 01:14:52.340 --> 01:14:55.460 about the radio show and the magazine and whatnot, you know? 01:14:56.140 --> 01:14:59.100 Jeez, I would never make, it was, it was so much that I couldn't make enough to break 01:14:59.100 --> 01:14:59.980 even, even close. 01:15:00.120 --> 01:15:01.440 I mean, forget about it. 01:15:02.200 --> 01:15:03.040 Damn, that sucks. 01:15:03.340 --> 01:15:06.660 Yeah, I might bring a few copies and maybe carry them around with me. 01:15:06.660 --> 01:15:07.720 Do some guerrilla marketing. 01:15:07.940 --> 01:15:08.640 Yeah, exactly. 01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:10.280 Do a little viral marketing or something. 01:15:11.100 --> 01:15:14.520 I'll definitely, I mean, stickers and stuff like that, I'll definitely bring some BinRev 01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:19.200 stickers and same, like you said, with the old school freak stickers and bring the small 01:15:19.200 --> 01:15:20.580 stuff that I can throw in my luggage. 01:15:20.580 --> 01:15:25.780 But, like, to print off, you know, copies of the magazine is, A, a big investment financially 01:15:25.780 --> 01:15:28.280 for me to go get them all printed, as I've talked about before. 01:15:29.240 --> 01:15:33.760 And, you know, having those shipped down there and having to carry around these big boxes 01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:37.500 with no table or booth to set up, that's kind of rough. 01:15:37.500 --> 01:15:42.160 So I might bring a few, you know, as many as I can carry or fit into my suitcase, but 01:15:42.160 --> 01:15:44.020 they're going to be probably gone quick, so. 01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:46.420 Do you think we'll have the new issue by then? 01:15:47.360 --> 01:15:50.540 Yikes, you're going to put me on the spot, on the air, on the show. 01:15:50.540 --> 01:15:51.640 I am, on the spot, I want to know. 01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:53.900 I do not know, honestly. 01:15:54.080 --> 01:15:55.800 I really do not know. 01:15:55.940 --> 01:15:57.840 It would be close if we did. 01:15:58.820 --> 01:16:00.420 I think we should work towards that goal. 01:16:00.580 --> 01:16:04.900 I agree with you, and I will, but there will be more. 01:16:04.900 --> 01:16:06.140 I know, we only have so much time. 01:16:06.140 --> 01:16:12.180 Yeah, and I can't say this on the show right now, but there will be some upcoming changes 01:16:12.180 --> 01:16:18.560 in general that will hopefully free up some time for me to work on projects like this better. 01:16:18.820 --> 01:16:21.340 So I guess we'll leave it at that. 01:16:21.680 --> 01:16:27.760 So let's, I guess, start wrapping up a little bit, unless there's something else you wanted 01:16:27.760 --> 01:16:30.400 to hit before we jumped out of the main section. 01:16:30.400 --> 01:16:33.000 I don't know, did you enjoy my topic? 01:16:33.120 --> 01:16:33.800 Did that make sense? 01:16:33.940 --> 01:16:35.220 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 01:16:35.500 --> 01:16:38.700 Amongst all the horns and the squealing tires in the background. 01:16:39.300 --> 01:16:40.400 Yeah, I know, sorry. 01:16:40.640 --> 01:16:42.280 No, but actually, I think that's funny. 01:16:42.440 --> 01:16:45.860 I'm the one that said, you know, let's do it from down to the payphone or something, 01:16:45.920 --> 01:16:47.660 which the payphone was just poor quality. 01:16:47.900 --> 01:16:48.640 Damn, what is it? 01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:49.140 What is it? 01:16:49.340 --> 01:16:50.140 Was it Verizon? 01:16:51.100 --> 01:16:51.420 Yeah. 01:16:51.620 --> 01:16:52.340 Yeah, figures. 01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:53.620 Can you hear me now? 01:16:53.620 --> 01:16:55.700 Don't know, fucker. 01:16:56.960 --> 01:16:58.500 They need to check their cell phones. 01:16:59.300 --> 01:17:00.280 Yeah, they do, for real. 01:17:00.420 --> 01:17:02.640 I have no reception at all inside my apartment. 01:17:03.320 --> 01:17:03.580 Yeah. 01:17:03.780 --> 01:17:06.840 Nobody with Verizon, nobody with Verizon ever does in my house. 01:17:07.060 --> 01:17:07.700 It really sucks. 01:17:07.900 --> 01:17:13.260 This is just one more reminder that we are putting together a hacking show. 01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:15.320 We're not using high quality stuff. 01:17:15.400 --> 01:17:16.340 We're not using Skype. 01:17:16.460 --> 01:17:19.660 I'm not trying to make crystal clear quality of everything. 01:17:20.340 --> 01:17:20.940 You know what? 01:17:20.980 --> 01:17:22.380 We're having fun doing the show. 01:17:22.380 --> 01:17:25.480 And if that means we're in the streets of New York City when we're doing it, 01:17:25.640 --> 01:17:30.200 or out driving around for prostitutes, or whatever the case may be. 01:17:30.780 --> 01:17:31.820 God damn it, that's right. 01:17:32.500 --> 01:17:35.280 We're going to do whatever it takes to make the show fun. 01:17:36.020 --> 01:17:36.420 Oh, yeah. 01:17:36.600 --> 01:17:37.780 Quality be damned. 01:17:39.360 --> 01:17:39.940 Oh, yeah. 01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:40.720 Keeping it gangster. 01:17:40.960 --> 01:17:41.940 Keeping it old school. 01:17:42.100 --> 01:17:42.740 That's right. 01:17:42.960 --> 01:17:44.180 Straight from the streets. 01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:45.360 All right. 01:17:45.500 --> 01:17:49.300 Well, I've got a, for side of the week, I guess I'm going to, 01:17:49.300 --> 01:17:51.860 I don't have a great tech side of the week, 01:17:51.860 --> 01:18:01.720 but I'm going to give my side of the week is CheapoVegas.com, 01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:05.620 because I've been on there all week, like, doing hotel comparisons 01:18:05.620 --> 01:18:10.340 and looking up who has the best this and lowest price and customer reviews 01:18:10.340 --> 01:18:11.260 and stuff like that. 01:18:11.900 --> 01:18:14.460 So that's my side of the week, trying to get ready for DEFCON. 01:18:14.460 --> 01:18:18.620 So, and, of course, we already mentioned OldSchoolFreak.com, 01:18:18.680 --> 01:18:20.820 so we can't give that a side of the week again. 01:18:21.600 --> 01:18:21.920 Yeah. 01:18:23.620 --> 01:18:24.580 And shouts. 01:18:24.920 --> 01:18:27.980 Why don't, well, I'll tell you what, I already gave my shouts earlier. 01:18:28.120 --> 01:18:31.300 Gelata and Saffron sent in the opening clip from the show, 01:18:31.380 --> 01:18:32.320 so shouts to them. 01:18:32.980 --> 01:18:34.780 And, Natus, go for it. 01:18:34.780 --> 01:18:35.180 What do you got? 01:18:36.040 --> 01:18:36.440 I don't know. 01:18:36.520 --> 01:18:40.540 Shouts to Nick84, Not Very Course, Doug Lucky. 01:18:40.540 --> 01:18:43.540 Let's see who else helped me out with all this stuff. 01:18:44.420 --> 01:18:44.680 I don't know. 01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:47.760 Just anybody in the Asterisk community, anybody that's down with Asterisk. 01:18:49.080 --> 01:18:49.500 All right. 01:18:49.640 --> 01:18:53.740 And the developers of all the products or all the applications we mentioned earlier, 01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:54.100 of course. 01:18:54.200 --> 01:18:54.920 Yeah, for sure. 01:18:55.020 --> 01:18:57.760 Everybody at Kane, they're working on that stuff like crazy. 01:18:58.040 --> 01:18:58.480 All right. 01:18:58.540 --> 01:18:58.940 Really awesome. 01:18:59.040 --> 01:19:01.740 Everybody who contributes to OldSchoolFreak.com, 01:19:01.940 --> 01:19:03.060 my shouts go out to you, too. 01:19:03.400 --> 01:19:04.340 Keep sending in articles. 01:19:04.340 --> 01:19:04.740 Yep. 01:19:06.100 --> 01:19:09.000 The site is still putting out lots of good and interesting stuff. 01:19:09.120 --> 01:19:11.100 I mean, the site's still going along quite well. 01:19:11.320 --> 01:19:11.800 How's the, um... 01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:13.580 Yeah, make sure you check out Super Caller ID. 01:19:13.940 --> 01:19:17.360 Yeah, what, um, are we, what episode of RFA are we up to? 01:19:17.420 --> 01:19:21.260 I know we relaunched the podcast with episode one a while back, 01:19:21.280 --> 01:19:22.520 and what episode are we up to now? 01:19:23.380 --> 01:19:23.520 Like, ten? 01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:24.040 Oh, man. 01:19:24.980 --> 01:19:26.100 Ten or eleven, I think. 01:19:27.020 --> 01:19:27.380 Yeah. 01:19:27.880 --> 01:19:29.060 It's got to be right up there. 01:19:29.060 --> 01:19:34.860 And the new ones, uh, the new ones, well, the new one will be yesterday in radio time, 01:19:34.940 --> 01:19:35.940 tomorrow in real time. 01:19:36.440 --> 01:19:37.200 All right. 01:19:38.200 --> 01:19:38.680 All right. 01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:46.580 So, um, okay, email us if you have any questions, comments, flames, or dirty pictures to send us. 01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:49.620 Send them to radio at binrev.com. 01:19:50.340 --> 01:19:52.820 And, Natis, you have some closing music for us this week. 01:19:53.740 --> 01:19:54.100 Yes. 01:19:54.460 --> 01:19:59.320 This is my man, Reggie, a.k.a. the Mr. Move, with Kitty Full of Beer. 01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:05.960 And this is, this is an, this is an internet exclusive, right? 01:20:06.020 --> 01:20:07.500 Is this a first time, uh... 01:20:07.500 --> 01:20:09.100 Yes, this is an internet exclusive. 01:20:09.400 --> 01:20:11.540 This is an exclusive track my man gave me. 01:20:11.700 --> 01:20:12.020 Nope. 01:20:12.020 --> 01:20:15.460 So check it out, and check it, if you live in Atlanta, uh, check out his website, 01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:17.900 because I think he's going to Atlanta and having a show really soon. 01:20:18.540 --> 01:20:19.560 Cool, cool. 01:20:20.280 --> 01:20:21.900 And, of course, we've closed with him before. 01:20:21.900 --> 01:20:22.640 I'm a fan of his. 01:20:22.700 --> 01:20:23.680 I like his stuff as well. 01:20:23.820 --> 01:20:29.980 So, that is our closing music for this week, and I think that is the show for this week as well. 01:20:30.140 --> 01:20:30.960 So, Natis. 01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:31.520 Oh, yeah. 01:20:31.740 --> 01:20:33.400 Thank you for being on once again. 01:20:34.160 --> 01:20:35.040 Thank you for having me. 01:20:35.220 --> 01:20:37.780 And for the ambiance and the, uh... 01:20:37.780 --> 01:20:40.260 That one outtake is going to be hilarious. 01:20:40.360 --> 01:20:42.800 When people hear that outtake on the, uh, on the... 01:20:42.800 --> 01:20:43.300 Oh, Jesus. 01:20:43.460 --> 01:20:45.560 ...second year episode, that one's going to be pretty funny. 01:20:46.020 --> 01:20:50.200 People don't realize how, uh, what got edited out of this episode, 01:20:50.200 --> 01:20:51.880 but they'll find out on episode 104. 01:20:52.660 --> 01:20:56.540 But, until that episode, we will see everyone again next week. 01:20:56.960 --> 01:20:58.240 Same hack time. 01:20:58.960 --> 01:20:59.960 Same hack channel. 01:20:59.960 --> 01:21:00.920 I'll catch you for a comb. 01:21:01.160 --> 01:21:01.260 Peace. 01:21:09.900 --> 01:21:11.540 Who wants a titty full of beer? 01:21:11.660 --> 01:21:12.680 I do, I do. 01:21:12.740 --> 01:21:14.480 Get rid of the milk and have the broom. 01:21:14.600 --> 01:21:14.740 True. 01:21:14.840 --> 01:21:16.220 Who wants a titty full of beer? 01:21:16.300 --> 01:21:17.260 I do, I do. 01:21:17.280 --> 01:21:19.220 Suck your jug see your nipples turn blue. 01:21:19.400 --> 01:21:20.900 Who wants a titty full of beer? 01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:22.000 I do, I do. 01:21:22.080 --> 01:21:23.860 Get rid of the milk and have the broom. 01:21:23.900 --> 01:21:24.100 True. 01:21:24.100 --> 01:21:25.540 Who wants a titty full of beer? 01:21:25.640 --> 01:21:26.580 I do, I do. 01:21:26.660 --> 01:21:28.400 Suck your jug see your nipples turn blue. 01:21:28.400 --> 01:21:30.780 Oh my god, you must be a rookie 01:21:30.780 --> 01:21:33.100 How about you go grab an A-cup and a cookie 01:21:33.100 --> 01:21:34.860 Your bra's still full of utter butter 01:21:34.860 --> 01:21:37.560 Once you suck down a D-cup and start to stud 01:21:37.560 --> 01:21:39.960 An ass, the bitch was full of a natural light 01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:42.320 Full of them mams with mine, they'd be full of butt ice 01:21:42.320 --> 01:21:44.780 Come on, play me, grab that ass tight 01:21:44.780 --> 01:21:47.080 But when I fucked it, just a free reboot was a fight 01:21:47.080 --> 01:21:49.360 I guess I like my girlfriend just the way she is 01:21:49.360 --> 01:21:51.800 But if she had a full bar to rack for being biz 01:21:51.800 --> 01:21:53.900 I'd be feeling better about paying the date 01:21:53.900 --> 01:21:56.340 If I could just eat from the tip, sure it'd equate 01:21:56.340 --> 01:21:58.680 Then I wouldn't have to worry about going home 01:21:58.680 --> 01:22:01.160 Screwing up with some girl who all has burnt foam 01:22:01.160 --> 01:22:03.380 I'd rather do cash, stands on demand 01:22:03.380 --> 01:22:05.620 But the girl has some souped up memory glass 01:22:05.620 --> 01:22:08.640 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:22:08.640 --> 01:22:10.420 Get rid of the milk and have the brew 01:22:10.420 --> 01:22:13.220 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:22:13.220 --> 01:22:15.120 Suck your jug, see your nipples turn blue 01:22:15.120 --> 01:22:17.960 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:19.800 Get rid of the milk and have the brew 01:22:19.800 --> 01:22:22.580 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:22:22.580 --> 01:22:24.440 Suck your jug, see your nipples turn blue 01:22:24.440 --> 01:22:27.240 Girl, you got a pretty face and a real nice ass 01:22:27.240 --> 01:22:29.220 But I shoved that breastwork pass 01:22:29.220 --> 01:22:30.780 And long last night's got it right 01:22:30.780 --> 01:22:33.480 Should've deppin' ass, I think I'd deppin' nipples tonight 01:22:33.480 --> 01:22:36.080 Oh, I got a new diet, blood light ain't gonna tighten 01:22:36.080 --> 01:22:38.400 And left five months to be high, it ain't a riot 01:22:38.400 --> 01:22:40.740 Maybe a poo, ooh, liquor when I lick her 01:22:40.740 --> 01:22:43.020 Forget your booze, pussy gets me drunk quicker 01:22:43.020 --> 01:22:44.500 Don't laugh, don't think her 01:22:44.500 --> 01:22:47.240 Cause if your booze comes bigger, probably gonna pick her 01:22:47.240 --> 01:22:49.440 Oh, your new DNA is PBR 01:22:49.440 --> 01:22:52.540 I go to a bar when I can lift up his shirt in the back of my car 01:22:52.540 --> 01:22:54.180 I got a gun instead of Arte Swat 01:22:54.180 --> 01:22:56.380 Heaps his pills, a little cleavage, I don't care 01:22:56.380 --> 01:22:57.660 She's sorry, she's like Corona 01:22:57.660 --> 01:22:59.760 I wanna bone you, your rack of lamb 01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:01.400 Got me one to be a poo 01:23:01.400 --> 01:23:04.560 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:23:04.560 --> 01:23:06.380 Get rid of the milk and have the brew 01:23:06.380 --> 01:23:09.180 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:23:09.180 --> 01:23:11.060 Fuck your jug, see your nipples turn blue 01:23:11.060 --> 01:23:13.880 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:23:13.880 --> 01:23:15.700 Get rid of the milk and have the brew 01:23:15.700 --> 01:23:18.460 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:23:18.460 --> 01:23:20.340 Fuck your jug, see your nipples turn blue 01:23:20.340 --> 01:23:25.060 Everybody getting tipsy from the nipple 01:23:25.060 --> 01:23:27.020 Everybody getting tipsy from the nipple 01:23:27.020 --> 01:23:27.540 Everybody getting tipsy from the nipple 01:23:27.540 --> 01:23:41.820 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:23:41.820 --> 01:23:43.620 Get rid of the milk and have the brew 01:23:43.620 --> 01:23:46.380 Who wants a titty full of beer? I do, I do 01:23:46.380 --> 01:23:48.260 Fuck your jug, see your nipples turn blue 01:23:48.260 --> 01:23:50.000 Who wants a ticket full of beer? 01:23:50.060 --> 01:23:51.140 I do, I do 01:23:51.140 --> 01:23:52.980 Get rid of the milk and have the brew 01:23:52.980 --> 01:23:54.680 Who wants a ticket full of beer? 01:23:54.980 --> 01:23:55.740 I do, I do 01:23:55.740 --> 01:23:57.680 Kuck your jealousy and nipples turn blue 01:23:57.680 --> 01:23:59.380 Who wants a ticket full of beer? 01:23:59.980 --> 01:24:02.260 I, I, I, what I do 01:24:02.280 --> 01:24:04.080 Who wants a ticket full of beer? 01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:06.880 I, I, I, what I do 01:24:06.880 --> 01:24:08.720 Who wants a ticket full of beer? 01:24:09.540 --> 01:24:11.580 I, I, I, what I do 01:24:11.580 --> 01:24:13.400 Who wants a ticket full of beer? 01:24:14.120 --> 01:24:16.260 I, I, I, what I do 01:24:16.260 --> 01:24:46.240 We'll be right back.