This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
in a fag pose, in your digital stance, getting firewalls hoes, cause I'm riding the net in
my six foes, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable,
on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and
I'm a hero, in a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through
my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, and a digital hug, you just caught
the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused the fight between Un and Jay-Z, cause CG, it's
all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattle
in your bones, when I tell you we just hacked Al Jones, and NASDAQ leaves you flat on your
back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack,
this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial code, source code, ISO, RAM, SIF, SIF,
this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers.
Hello there, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode 107, for August 2nd, 2005.
The show notes are actually correct this week.
Yes, welcome to the post-DEF CON zombie episode of Binary Revolution Radio, because Ratchet and
I just got back from DEF CON less than 24 hours ago, and we are totally zonked.
I got back from DEF CON less than 12 hours ago, to be honest with you.
Wow.
Yeah, well, I don't know, I guess, yeah, I guess you could say that, cause I'm in the same
time zone now.
I don't know, this whole time zone thing throws me off, I think, you know, everything's just
to be on the same time zone.
And everyone should just be on UTC.
Yeah, everyone should just be on UTC, exactly, and just people can say, oh, the sun sets, you
know, the same time as everyone, so you know when the sun is setting in eastern Bangladesh.
Anyway, welcome to what may be an abbreviated version of BINREV Radio.
I really don't know how Stank ever taped after conferences now, because I got into Boston
around 6, and I essentially fell asleep around 7, and I woke up around 2.50, and we're now
taping at 3.50 after I did show notes and everything.
And I have to edit this up and hopefully put it up, and hopefully it'll actually be up
this week.
I want to apologize for last week.
I completely mismanaged my time, and did not have the episode up in time, so it did not
stream live at all, period.
Yeah, for that we wholeheartedly apologize, or as they say in the phone company, we're
sorry.
We're sorry.
Your radio show did not get completed in time.
Please check the show and dial again.
This is a recording.
3-1-1-1.
Yes, but, anyways, everyone's scratching their heads as they have no idea what we're talking
about.
Inside jokes, people.
Inside jokes.
Yes.
You'll learn this stuff eventually.
Yes, you should listen to phoentrips.com.
There we go.
Although we're not streaming live this week.
We hope to do that sometime in the near future.
Yes, we're not streaming live.
I mean, we didn't put the show up to stream at all, so hopefully in the next few weeks,
now that we have some free time and not worrying about DEF CON, we'll actually start
streaming live and actually have some fun things for people to listen to.
Speaking of DEF CON, DEF CON went amazingly well.
This is sort of the post-DEF CON wrap-up special, because we really didn't do any research
on any other topic, and DEF CON's a big enough event that we both went to it, so people
would want to listen to it.
And we had a ton of fun.
We had a ton of fun.
Lots and lots of fun.
And we have tons of really interesting stories to tell you all.
Yes.
Envy us, and then beg whoever controls your wallet to let you come next year.
Exactly.
Or, for people on the East Coast, such as myself, you can go to HOPE next year, which
is, I think, like a week before DEF CON, because Emmanuel can't stand competition or something.
You'll have to excuse the occasional munching sounds.
I'm eating this bag of sun chips that Avid gave me.
Yes.
Shout out to Avid for the chips.
Yes.
Thank you, Avid, for the chips.
Anyway, so once again, I'd like to apologize for not having a stream going last week.
That was completely my fault.
And I'm really hoping we're going to have one this week, because it's going to be cutting
it very close.
Another thing I'd like to apologize for in advance is the fact that I'm reading over
the show notes, and I think we're doing far too recursive a show.
The emails are about the show, and the responses are about the show, and it's a show about a
show, really.
It's a meta show.
Yes, it's a meta show.
So, we appreciate the emails and the comments and everything, but please, send us technical
stuff, because if we don't, it's just going to be a show about a show, and there's enough
of those on television already, even though I don't even watch TV.
And also, it's not just the email's fault.
It's also our fault, because technically, it's just, once you said, it leads into a giant
recursive loop.
And starting next week, and so we're going to actually have real topics, and we're going
to fall back into the, you know, back into the bin rev kick that, you know, Stank Dog
has started for us.
I actually think I addressed that into the email.
So, hey, want to just drop right into the emails?
Let's take a look.
Where'd you put, where'd I put those emails?
Anyway, our first email this week, I'll read it, haha, okay.
Our first email this week is from Cyprus, and he says,
Why do you guys keep bleeping out the curse words?
Whatever happened to free media on the internet?
Whatever happened to no censorship on the internet?
Stank was cursing his little dog heart out on the show, so why are you not guys, so why
are you guys trying to change something that has worked for over two years?
This is not to say you guys are doing a bad job on the show, it's just that this little
weird randomly goes silent for a few seconds.
Please, guys, if at all possible, do not change the way the show is, and keep cursing, if you
want.
I can't believe how badly he butchered the word censorship.
It's okay, people aren't, you know, whatever.
Nothing wrong with, and it says a quick email, email grammar sucks, we should all know that
by now.
It's been proven in numerous studies.
Three spell checkers.
I had to look at that three times before I realized it said censorship.
Because you're a grammar Nazi.
Okay, well, Cyprus, I mean, you were the first, but not the only person to complain about that.
As for the random silences, we're not really, like, I just think, sadly, that's just us doing
dead air, just talking about not doing anything.
But a couple people complained about how we, the Metallica, the quote-unquote Metallica email
last week, we did the bleeping thing.
And to be honest, we thought the bleeping was humorous.
Judging from the response that we got, I don't think you guys did.
But, so, okay, we won't be doing that again.
Yeah, we do have, from what I understand, anyway, we are broadcast on something resembling
real radio, so we have to abide by something resembling FCC rules.
Well, the entire thing with Stank was, the two or three radio stations that do broadcast
us, they do go in, because they don't broadcast us live.
They go in and, like, they broadcast us on a Thursday or something, so he has enough
time to go in, bleep out all the naughty words.
So, it's understandable.
But at the same time, you know, I don't like censoring on the internet, but, and you've
got to admit, there'd be a lot less censoring if, you know, everyone could just get along.
And while that requires, you know, the parents for the future of America and all them, you
know, save the children groups, they need to move more toward the center.
People like us who swear, like, no tomorrow, need to move toward the center, too.
That's what it compromises.
We both move toward the middle.
We, you know, we agree on something.
They say, okay, you can swear a little bit.
We say, okay, we'll tone it back down a little bit.
I don't swear too often.
At least, I don't think so.
Maybe I do.
Yeah.
But, you know, I do let the occasional F-ball drop.
Yeah, of course.
Of course, you use swears when it emphasizes your point, but if you say it every other
word, A, you're signing a major immaturity, and B, it proves that you have no vocabulary
to speak of.
Well, it's also, you know, an interesting way to, I forget, emphasize your point.
And if you do it every other word, you just really dull it down.
Yep.
So when you actually do need to make an emphasis, there's no emphasis there to be made because
you, you, you say fuck every other word, when you say fuck, it doesn't mean something.
Exactly.
Fuck.
It's like, you know, I'm making more work for poor radio show people now.
So we apologize to you, radio show people.
All right.
Let me read the next email.
Okay, you can read it.
This one is from Mikey.
I'm sure this won't be read on the air, but the new show sucks ass.
I like Black Ratchet and Strong, but you are both being way too egomaniacal.
Yes.
Oh, way too ego.
Anyway, that's not a word, Mikey.
Way.
I thought egomaniacal was a word.
Maybe, but it's not spelled anywhere resembling that.
No, just, just suck it up and deal with it.
Okay.
Both being egomaniacs.
When you hear rats say things like, this is my show and shit like that, it makes you
want to turn it off.
Also, the maturity level seems to have dropped quite a bit.
You have taken a very respectable, informative show and earned it into a steaming pile of
crap.
I really hope you try to do better in the future.
If not, then go fuck yourself.
Love, Mikey.
I love you too, Mikey.
Yes, we love you too.
So, judging from his anonymous email address that he sent to Trump, this may not be his
real name.
Anyway, for now, you will include sarcasm tags on an SAP channel in the stream.
Yes, I'm going to include nice little sarcasm channels on, you know, everyone else has
a little Spanish sub-audio channel, or are you going to have the sarcasm sub-audio channel
for Mikey?
Because apparently, Mikey, you are just simply unable to detect it in the real stream.
As for the maturity level, whatever.
I mean, I try to run this show to the same amount of seriousness that existed when Stank
did it.
And I think more than enough people agree that it stayed the same.
If someone doesn't, drop me a line.
People can contact me all over the place.
And this actually kind of reflects of what Strom was talking about earlier.
The kind of the informative show has dropped a little bit, mainly because we really haven't
had much free time, so we haven't had time to plan out the topics.
Not to mention that we're still in the, oh my god, we're doing a radio show.
Exactly.
We're still incredibly excited that we're doing this.
And I do believe, now that I've listened to the past couple episodes, that does reflect
through way too much.
So, Mikey, you do have a point.
The past three shows have been somewhat of a wash, with the exception of the last week's
show.
I think that was kind of good, except for the fact that it didn't go out on the stream.
Next week and the week after, we're going to try to kick this up a notch, head into high
gear, other type of interesting metaphors about cars and everything.
And, you know, plan out some topics, make it informative, and people won't start talking
about the show.
And if you want us to talk about certain specific topics, send them to us, please.
Yeah, send them to RadioBinRev.com.
I'm open for new subjects.
I like learning about things.
I have a computer lab, so, you know, if you talk about a program, I'll set it up, I'll play
with it, and I'll tell you what I think.
I don't see why anyone would want to know what I think, but whatever.
Excuse me.
Oh, pardon me.
Real-life sneezes on BinRev Radio.
Yes, yes.
Soon you may listen to live sneezes over internet.
Yes.
Sneeze over IP.
Sneeze checks transfer protocol.
STTP.
I think sneeze over IP.
Snipe.
I like it.
I think you should trademark that, you know, because someone will actually go out and
develop that one day.
The Sneez-O-Matic.
The Sneez-O-Matic 2000.
All right.
Actually, I think we're going to upgrade to the 3000 now, because 2000 doesn't sound
as impressive, because we're in the 2000s now.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's move on to XcrossfireX's email.
From XcrossfireX.
I think that's how you pronounce it.
I don't know if those Xs are really decorative.
Hey.
I always don't understand that.
Yeah.
I don't either.
Whatever.
Hey, I recently found your podcast on, I'm sad to say, iTunes, while I was looking for
some non-moronic tech shows that I may actually learn something from.
Kudos.
I am definitely keeping my subscription.
FYI, the first show I listened to was your self-proclaimed disaster episode.
I really liked it.
I'm looking forward to more organized shows, but I still felt informed at the end of the
67 minutes.
I don't think the show was quite as bad as you think, and I am looking forward to listening
to future podcasts.
Wow.
This guy's, what, he came from, sent in from Scotland?
I don't know.
I think I might have to actually run the rent email that way.
Oh, well.
Anyway, I don't think, I don't like the iTunes jab that he did.
There's nothing wrong with iTunes.
I use iTunes.
There's nothing wrong with iTunes, but considering the fact that I've had, I'm about to go back
to the Apple store because my second iPod in two months has gone belly up on me.
I like the jab at iTunes.
I think Apple does.
Well, that's because you're not using iTunes.
You're using F-Pod or whatever it is.
Yeah, but Apple's hardware quality still seems to leave something to be desired.
To be honest, I've had my iPod for about, oh...
Yes.
Yours is a first gen, mine is a fourth gen.
I think they've gotten cheaper in the manufacturing between those two times.
Really?
I always heard everyone else's kind of opinion that they've improved drastically.
Well, compare a Western electric phone from 1957 to one from 1979, and you'll see that
the build quality has gone down amazingly because they tried to make it cheaper.
I don't know.
Anyway, but still, that's not a knock toward iTunes.
That's a knock toward iPods.
Yes.
Anyway, I personally, I like iTunes.
I use iTunes to manage my iPod.
My iPod's dying, by the way, just so everyone knows is a proper disclaimer.
And I think when they came out with podcasts, I was incredibly excited because I've been waiting
for this feature for months.
I know there was a iPod, I'm sorry, an iPod or a plug-in for iTunes.
I forget what it's like, iPod or X or something.
And I was like, oh, cool, download this.
And all of a sudden, I read the system requirements, and it requires, you know, 10.3 OS.
And I only have OS 10.2 point some other number.
And I was thoroughly disappointed.
And I tried to hack it up and get it to work.
Like, you know, with some Windows programs, it says, oh, you need, you know, Windows 2000
to do this.
And you can usually clutch it along with Windows NT as long as you don't use certain functions.
No, no.
With OS 10, you know, you can't run up-to-date software on an older version because it just,
you know, fails miserably.
I believe it completely took out my computer and caused it to reboot, which was absolutely
shocking in my opinion because memory management shouldn't allow that.
So, like, I was waiting for this feature for months.
And, you know, ever since they introduced it, I found, like, more than a few interesting
shows.
A lot of shows that aren't too good, but we won't get into them.
I think the podcast is cool, especially with the podcast going on iTunes because it really
opens up the doors for a lot of more people to listen to shows.
Something, like, for people who've listened to Off the Hook on, you know, 2600.com, they
constantly talk about the iPod users and the iPodder people who, I'm sorry, not iPodder,
iPodcasting.
Boy, what a, see, this is why we don't tape six hours after we get up and fly in from DEF CON.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, again, the Zombies of DEF CON show.
The Zombies of DEF CON episode.
So, podcasting is just really opened up the doors to a lot of people.
And with the inclusion in the iTunes, it's just really moved it out to the masses.
You know, all the Mac sellers there that are, you know, downloading the bleeding edge of iTunes,
you know, downloaded to podcast plug-in and now listening to different shows such as Bin
Rev Radio, Off the Hook, and, you know, a lot of other shows that are out there, you know,
that were previously might be called struggling, but their audiences, their possible audiences
jumped up to 10, 20-fold.
It's, it's really good.
So, there's nothing wrong with iTunes.
Okay, there's certain things wrong with iTunes, but not in the, not in the podcast way of saying.
But I guess one could say there are certain things wrong with almost every software package out there.
Exactly.
I mean, look at Windows.
Yes.
Heck, look at, look at, look at, look at Linux.
There's, there's things wrong with Linux, as I found out with DEF CON.
And look how much, look at how much we love Asterisk.
Exactly.
Anyway, the email bag was very short this week.
Probably everyone was at DEF CON.
Yeah.
Our last email is from Havoc.
First of all, I'd like to thank Stank Dog for choosing Black Ratchet and Strom Carlson as
host for Binary Revolution Radio.
They'll surely keep the show on the good level.
To make this job easier, I'm attaching a sound file with pronunciation of my nickname.
This was taken from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English language, and I really want
to be, really want to be uttered this way.
This is not so fresh news, but I haven't seen it mentioned on Binary Radio, and I thought
it may be a subject for an interesting discussion.
And it's, it's, nine-year-old Pakistani girl has earned her, what did I say, Pakistani girl
has earned her Microsoft-certified professional status.
I'm amazed how deeply the dark empire has brainwashed her brain.
Havoc.
And the URL for this story is tinyurl.com slash charlie7julietxraymikec7jxm.
And, you know, a lot of people are pointing out how the whole, you know, nine-year-old getting
her NCP is, you know, oh, it's this horrible thing toward Microsoft.
I mean, yeah, it could be kind of slanted toward, you know, you might be making your
NCP too easy, but at the same point, hey, there are some brilliant nine-year-olds out
there.
Exactly.
I, I, you never know, this could be this super genius nine-year-old.
We, we don't know.
They're talking about her developing applications and, you know, just doing crazy stuff.
Stuff at, like, nine years old.
I was playing with my Tonka trucks.
I, I, I was starting to play with a computer.
I didn't understand really what I was doing, but I certainly remember writing some very,
very basic programs before the age of 11.
At the same time, you aren't, of course, you know, with visualstudio.net, it makes it
all so easy.
Yes.
This show, this email brought to you by Microsoft.
Yes.
Hey, it's such a great app for visualstudio.net, right?
So easy.
Even a nine-year-old could use it.
Even a nine-year-old prodigy can, can use it.
Oh, actually, so, apparently, I've, I've heard two, um, actually, in this story that
he sent, it's mentioned she's, uh, ten years old, but I have heard stories that she is
nine, so.
Well, perhaps she got the MVP at the age of nine and then turned ten.
Oh, could be, could be.
Or, you know, actually, no, here we go.
The, the, uh, she, she received that she was still, she received it while she was still
nine.
There we go.
It says it right in the story here.
I just, I guess I didn't skip over that part.
Uh, it's, it's, it's good that, I mean, you were saying that you had, I didn't have a
computer when I was nine, so I don't know.
I, I was currently going through my giant radio kick, so, of which I still suffer from, but
we won't get into that.
I mean, it's, kids today are learning computers earlier.
They're, you know, my, my fiance, she, she has stuff in her school and they all use the
internet and, of course, they all have a giant blocked off with huge firewalls and content
filtering, but, you know, these kids are K-3-3.
They're using the internet, they're searching stuff, they're doing reports on it, they're
playing computer games, educational computer games, they're deploying laptops on carts
for these kids to use during class.
And I'm sure we have many listeners who are under the age of 15 out there.
I'm, I'm sure.
Actually, I'm, I'm curious, if, if you're, let's say, if you, if you're 13 or below, email
in for next week, and I, I, because I'm just honestly curious, I'll send you shouts on the
show, I might, you know, just find something to talk about and go talk about it and email
into the show.
Yeah, or just say, hey, you know, I listened to your show, I like it, we'll, we'll just
assemble a list of all those who email in and we'll read your handles if you like.
Yes, and if, and if you're the, if you're the youngest, we'll, we'll, you know, give
you mad props out on air.
Of course, I'm not sure how we're going to enforce that exactly, but.
Well, come on, it's been Rave Radio, we're, we're counting on our listeners to be honest.
Yes.
Be honest, guys.
I think we, of course, we're probably going to like get emails in like for the next three
weeks while people download this off the archives.
Yes.
So please only email if it's the week of the 2nd of August.
Oh, no, no.
People can continue email, so we'll sort of officially end the contest next week, but
say, for example, if a nine-year-old emails in, if our little, you know, 10-year-old at
Arafa Karim, I, I, Naga, Naga, not going to work here anymore, you know, if someone nine-year-old
emails in, we'll give them shouts.
That's true.
Whatever it is.
And I think the interesting part is about this whole thing is that Bill Gates actually
flew out there to meet her, and she, she wrote him a poem, and I just think that's incredibly
cute, and I, I think people need to write me poems.
Actually, is this being, is that being egomaniacal?
This is sarcasm.
Sarcasm.
Sarcasm here.
Don't, don't write me poems, because I, I really don't deserve it.
Well, if you guys really, really are, like, adoring us John Carlson and or Black Ratchet
fanboys, and you want to write us poems, we won't reject the poems, but we are not putting
a call out for, for poems, unless you really want to.
Unless we can have a DEF CON limerick.
Hey, I wrote a DEF CON limerick.
Why do you think I brought it up?
I made, I made, I made not one, but two extremely valiant attempts at rhyming with orange in the
limerick.
You're just obsessed over them.
Hey, it's damn cool to make an attempt at rhyming with orange.
I'll, I'll, I'll repeat my DEF CON limerick.
No, no, we're not, we're, okay, we're going to, we're drifting, so we're going to get back on top of it.
No, as I said, I'll repeat my DEF CON limerick to, as when we get into that segment of the show.
Okay, there we go, all right.
Let me finish my, my, my drift, what was I going to say?
Let me finish my drift saving phrase before you start drift saving yourself.
Okay.
He he he.
So anyway, MCPs, they are hard to get.
Okay, I wouldn't say they are hard to get.
They're difficult to get, especially if you're nine years old.
And she could be super genius and, you know, essentially Stank's view on piece of paper that say, oh, you know, Windows are essentially the same as my own.
I look at it as it's a very necessary evil because you need to prove to the HR person or the suit upstairs that, oh, I know how to run Windows 2000.
And I know I know how to run Windows 2000.
Actually, it's now like Windows 2003.
I know how to run Windows 2003.
But, you know, they don't understand that I know how to do it.
So, therefore, I go out, go to Microsoft, get this little sheet of paper and hand it to them and say, hey, Microsoft says I know Windows 2003.
Aren't I spiffy?
And they'll say, oh, here you go.
Here's a $50,000 signing bonus if it was 1998.
But it's just a simple way of saying that you know certain things.
And there are people out here who just know or are very book smart.
It's the same for every subject in the world.
There are people out there who are very book smart who study for the test, take the test, get the little piece of paper, and have no clue at how to administrate it in the real world.
I'm basically the exact opposite.
I've sat down and I've taken the, you know, pre-study test that you find online or on CD-ROMs.
And essentially what happens is I score insanely high in the technical portions and the, I don't know, what would it be, stuff you would do in real life.
But as for, you know, knowing how big your SAM database is when you have 3,000 users, I just look at this and stare, like, look at it and say, I don't know.
Why do I care?
However, it's a piece of paper.
A lot of people do use it for things that they shouldn't be using it for, like, you know, proving that so-and-so knows so-and-so.
But at the same point, it ain't going away, sadly.
And we really just need to get used to it.
Yeah, definitely.
How do you feel about this?
You've never mentioned this on the show before.
I mean, as someone who has sort of done the college thing and failed at it and now going back, I sort of agree with you that the piece of paper is, you know, not really a genuine indication of whether or not you're really capable of it.
But, you know, from the opposite, from the other side of the desk, if you're an HR person and you are trying to find an employee, you know, you can't go based solely on experience.
You know, you need – if you're dealing with tons of resumes, especially if you are not hiring for a position that you are intimately familiar with, having the person who, you know, the manager say to you, you know, here, I need someone with XXXXX certifications.
Those are somewhat, you know, standard things you can look for, which make your job easier.
And so, again, it's some sort of a necessary evil.
Exactly.
I think one of my college professors said it best when he was talking about – he was actually talking at the time about university diplomas and such like that, but it actually falls back to MCSEs and all that jazz.
It's a way to enable opportunities.
It's a way to, like, you know, come out and say, here, I have my bachelor's degree in computer science.
Here, I have my MCSE in Windows 2003.
Someone can say, oh, he must know what he's doing.
Therefore, he's – you know, he sat down.
He got this.
Therefore, he must be a little bit better than, you know, Joe Schmoe, who did not sit down and could do that.
It's – I know.
It basically says, I buckled down.
I did something.
Look at me.
As opposed to someone who, you know, might be, A, very talented, but they didn't buckle down for four years and do that.
So it's not always that way, I know, but it's just – it's hard to articulate this.
It's just a way for people to actually come out and say, hey, I did this.
Hey, I – therefore, you know, if I did this, I know I must probably have some type of ambition.
So I probably might be a little more employable than someone else who doesn't have this.
I'm not articulating this correctly.
I think we're just kind of rambling.
Yes, we are.
Post-EF CON.
And I'm sure Mikey's just, you know, seeming on the other end of the stream right now.
All right.
So –
You want to go into show and tell?
Be your pardon?
Want to go into show and tell?
Essentially, I think show and tell and the show topic just sort of blend into one giant.
Yeah, we're just going to skip the show and tell portion.
Essentially, show and tell this week will be the same as the show topic as we're doing our post-DEF CON wrap-up.
Yeah, so show topic, DEF CON.
Is it two words?
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
DEF CON.
Remember, like, someone puts, like, you know, the emphasis on DEF and the emphasis on CON.
And, like, space them out.
I always, like, picture, like, DEF comedy jam or something.
Something you see on BET.
Of course, I'm sure it's an old Hackney joke, but you tell someone you're at DEF CON and they say, why can't you hear?
DEF CON this year.
That was pretty lame, although I've never heard that before.
DEF CON this year was a lot of fun.
It was amazingly fun.
It was – I've got to say I had a lot more fun this year than last year.
And because I hung out with Strom.
And who wouldn't like to hang out with Strom?
Yes, yes.
Because I know everyone, everyone just wants to hang out with me.
Closed sarcasm tag here.
Well, how do you want to do this?
Do you want to do this sort of chronologically?
Yeah.
Why don't we tell the story of us at DEF CON?
Well, essentially, I got up on – it was Thursday morning at 6 a.m., flew in with my friend, Red Nerd, and we arrived in Las Vegas at about 12.05.
And we actually – the strange part was the – actually, technically, we can go start the night before with us quashing bugs for DEF CON by phone up until about midnight Eastern.
Oh, yeah.
I had to get up at 4 a.m.
Why don't we tell the story of that first?
Okay, you can go do that since you're the expert in the voice of DEF CON by phone.
Good afternoon.
DEF CON by phone.
It stays sober so you don't have to.
DEF CON by phone was something we set up, which was an automatic interactive telephone schedule of the convention.
And basically, that's what it was.
You call it up, and it tells you what talks are coming up, and you can set reminders and have it call you back before talks you want to see are going to happen.
And if you set reminders, it will call you back if shows are rescheduled or canceled.
So that was how it supposedly works in theory.
In fact, it was a little more difficult because, A, I dictated the entire content of the program into DEF CON by phone,
and that was a major pain in the ass to get through because it was like 50 pages of single-spaced text that I had to dictate in a measured, articulated, easy-to-understand voice.
The program as in the – not the actual physical program that runs DEF CON by phone, the program of the convention as in all the talks and everything.
Yes, the schedule, I should say.
The schedule.
There we go.
So that was an adventure in and of itself.
I couldn't think of the word either, so don't feel that bad.
Yeah, we're both kind of zonked out right now, so we apologize for that.
But that was a – where were we going?
That was what we did.
Yeah, Strom basically sat here for a week and read the entire schedule, and I've got to say did an amazing job for doing it.
He did some – there were more than a few Easter eggs in there.
For example, if people ever tried to listen to the hacking in a foreign language, how to learn what's going on in Russia, you'd start listening to it, and all of a sudden he'd just fade in the sounds from Tetris for the Game Boy.
And I've got to say, he called me up and said, you have to listen to this.
And I was in hysterics, and it was just so fantastic.
And there were a couple other strange Easter eggs you did in there, like, for example, the one topic that was all one sentence.
Oh, yes.
There was one topic where the description was one gigantic sentence.
So I decided to mock them by recording – no one in their right mind, unless they had lungs the size of a room, would be able to read the entire sentence in one go.
So I recorded it in several segments, and then edited those together, so it sounded like I was reading the entire thing without taking a single breath between words.
The wonders of audio editing.
Yes.
And there were other fun things we did, too.
We had a rotating introduction.
So it would randomly pick an introductory saying to play to you before they gave you the main menu.
So we had –
Defcon the phone.
Yeah, my roommate sang, sang, Defcon by phone.
And did a couple others, like, it's Defcon by phone.
Defcon by phone.
Arr.
And we thoroughly enjoyed the singing version of it because my friend Red Dirt and I, we essentially – on the way home from Las Vegas to Boston, we would just randomly break out and just sing, Defcon by phone.
Do you guys ever write lyrics to that like you said you would?
No, no.
I thought Schwa was going to do it.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, well, I'll have to ask him to write lyrics for us then.
Yeah, well, he's the one who did the initial song, so it would make sense to actually do it.
Because – and plus, we're engineers.
We can't sing or actually be creative.
I can sing and be creative.
You heard me singing in the car.
Well, yes, but I can't do that.
It's impossible for me.
How about that?
Anyway, so that was about like the previous week leading up into Defcon, and we finally got everything done with it.
And essentially, I go to bed getting ready for the flight Wednesday morning.
I go to bed Tuesday night.
I get an IM from Strom at about 10.30, my time, saying, oh, my God, this, this, and this are broken.
And so I'm like, okay, fine, I'll fix it.
I'll stay up until about 11.
Meanwhile, an hour and a half later, I'm still coding stuff, and I finally squashed the last bug.
It was just random silly things with my SQL quotes that we never really actually beta tested this because we didn't have audio files to test it with.
Yeah, that was partially my fault.
I took it.
It was a complete hack.
It really was.
But, you know, hey, it's Defcon.
That's what Defcon's all about.
Yes.
So we finally get to Defcon, and things seem to be working sort of well.
And then the first thing that happens is they push an entire track of talks back an hour.
Phil Zimmerman, we hate you.
Yes, Phil Zimmerman, we hate you and your voice over IP encryption software sucks.
I never actually saw it.
Did you actually see it?
I saw a bit of it on TV.
It's like just kind of basically this peer-to-peer SIP client with encryption built in,
and he had the most horrible trouble trying to get it to work over NAT.
Oh, it's SIP.
Yeah, it's SIP.
See, if he'd come to our presentation.
He'd learn that NAT and SIP don't get a long period, yes.
So anyway, what happened was he thought he was going on at 11, and in reality he was starting at 10.
So rather than trying to, like, flip something around in the schedule, Defcon thought it would be a great idea to move everything back an hour
and then try to make up time during the day, which really wreaked havoc on our scheduling system
because, you know, initially we had everything ported out like, you know, Phil Zimmerman goes at 10, you know, so-and-so goes at 11.
So we had to figure out a way of pushing everything back all by an hour, which I hadn't counted on.
So mostly from a good, from about 10 a.m. to probably about 3 p.m. on Friday, I was just, you know, tweaking the schedule
and fixing up a couple of other things that we found out that wasn't working correctly,
and I missed a good chunk of the convention doing it.
I was very sad.
But Defcon by phone was a labor of love, and other than that, it went out pretty well.
Yeah.
The surprising thing was that when we asked people during our asterisk presentation
whether they used and enjoyed Defcon by phone, the answer was a resounding yes, which was a major shock to me.
Yeah, it was kind of a shock to me, too, especially because I was walking by in line one day
and some guy was saying, yeah, Defcon by phone would be good if they actually updated the schedule,
at which point I had to control my fist to the desk and just walk by.
Should we rant about the Defcon info booth?
Oh, yes.
We went to them and we said, hey, you know, we're running that automated schedule this year,
and it would be really great if we could rely on you guys to let us know about any and all schedule changes
before, you know, as they happen so that we can keep our users updated
and that we can be happy and we can like you guys.
And so I gave them my phone number and my email address and I said, please, get in contact with me if anything changes.
They said, all right, we'll do that.
And I didn't hear a thing for a whole day.
And I said to them, hey, you know, my version of the schedule is starting to look suspiciously less and less like reality.
Have you guys gotten updates?
It's, oh, yeah, we've been having them all day.
It was at that point that I wanted to strangle somebody, but.
So anyway, so that was, you know, Friday morning and we figured all that out.
And plus the other fun thing was, you know, Friday afternoon I saw a couple of things.
I eventually retreated back to our hotel room.
Plus I couldn't actually code in our hotel room out on the server because Alexis Park did not have our DSL modem working correctly.
It's been broken for 73 days according to their trouble tickets.
Yes, I was talking to them and I thought it was just, you know, randomly broken.
And the guy was looking at the ticket and he mentioned in passing, oh, this thing's been out for, there's been an open trouble ticket for 72 days on this.
I'm like, what?
Yeah, so we, you know, myself, Red Nerd, Blake Ops, and Strom were, you know, basically internet lists for most of the convention.
Which actually, I think that was kind of worked out pretty well.
Yeah, because I spent more of my time socializing and less of my time Googling at a laptop.
Yeah, and, you know, we weren't like those guys out by the pool, you know, liking on the IRC saying, hey, I'm at DEF CON, like we ranted about last week.
So it actually kind of worked out well.
It was a bit inconvenient because I'm basically sitting there in the lobby coding up DEF CON by phone.
And these two kids next to me are on a laptop basically owning this window box someplace saying, oh, look at that, he's running IIS.
Oh, check out all of his MP3s.
And I was just like, I'm not hearing this.
I'm going to walk over there.
It's DEF CON.
It really is.
So that was Friday morning.
A couple of good talks I saw on Friday on the closed caption TV because I was coding was –
You mean closed circuit TV.
Closed caption for the DEF CON impaired.
For those of you who don't know, if you're in the Alexis Park, all of the DEF CON talks are broadcast on closed circuit TV in the hotel room.
So if you can't make it to the talk in the place that they're giving it, which happens more often than not, you can run back to your hotel room and watch it there.
We had a pretty sweet use for that.
Should I get into that now or later?
No, I don't think we should talk about that.
No?
No.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I was saying during our talk.
Oh, yes.
We'll talk about our talk later.
Yes.
Let's see.
Oh, and you found a very interesting friend during Friday.
Did I?
Yes.
You became very famous because you talked to a certain person?
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Of course, of course.
We bumped into, on Friday, we met Brian Krebs, who, as it turns out, is a staff writer for the Washington Post.
A very cool staff writer, I might add.
We should send him a link to the show.
Yeah, we should.
We should.
I'll email him after the show, Brian.
But, um, what was I saying?
He is just a really, really cool reporter.
And he, he, we showed him around, and he wrote about us in his blog.
There is, if you read the...
He, he wrote about Strom.
I was indirectly mentioned, and our hotel room was indirectly mentioned.
Yes.
He posted something from our hotel room, and he talked about the, uh, all the stuff that was in the hotel room,
and all the pay phones that were, sorry, all the laptops that were littered about the hotel room and the pay phone that was in the hotel room.
So, yes, Strom brought his pay phone.
We'll actually give this out.
It's, uh, blogs.washingtonpost.com slash securityfixed.
I thought it was just washingtonpost.com slash securityfixed.
Oh, Google says it's blog.
Hold on.
Let's go see if washingtonpost.com works.
He told me just washingtonpost.com.
Oh, no, washingtonpost.com redirects to it.
So, it's washingtonpost.com slash securityfix.
That's F-I-X, as in the opposite of break.
Should we actually...
Well, this will go tiny URL up.
Hold on.
You can continue talking about Brian.
Brian is very cool.
I was thoroughly impressed with him.
He was...
Basically, he's the anti of John Markoff, who's right through the New York Times.
Note that time.
He's really cool.
Yeah.
He sat up there.
He talked to, um...
He talked to all of us.
And, you know, he just got a...
His theory and his policy is that there are so many really bad tech journalists out there.
He wants to get it right.
And for that, we commend him immensely.
I'm trying to feed this into tinyurl.com.
Oh, shucks.
What the heck's going on here?
Tiny URL hates you.
Yeah, I think so.
But, uh...
Shouts to Brian.
Brian rocks.
Or Mr. Krabs.
I don't know.
We were thoroughly impressed with him.
We let him, you know, take our beer and use our bathroom and all the good stuff.
That's tinyurl.com slash au96b alpha uniform 96 bravo.
That's niner ass breath.
It's a really cool blog.
I was actually...
I've been reading it off and on ever since we got to DEF CON.
Mainly because he was here at DEF CON.
And he, uh...
Last blog entry, as of now, was, uh...
Posted, uh, 530 yesterday.
And he was leaving Las Vegas so long DEF CON and Black Hat.
And he did a lot of talk on the...
For those of you who haven't been paying attention to this, the, uh...
Cisco gate at Black Hat, which was essentially...
Someone did a nice presentation on how, uh...
Released more than a couple of zero-day holes in iOS, which is the operating system that runs Cisco.
Uh, Cisco...
The operating system Cisco uses to run their routers and switches.
And Cisco didn't like that and sued them.
So, basically, the...
They settled out of court where the security researcher,
You can't talk about Cisco anymore.
Which is completely stupid in my book.
We'll save that for another rant.
So, anyway, moving on to Friday night.
We went to the...
The BINRAV forums got together for the sushi field trips.
Oh, yes.
The BINRAV forum sushi field trip.
The thing that amazed me was how smoothly the whole thing went.
We had 26 people, uh...
Gather in the lobby.
We left on time.
I think we only left one person behind who didn't show up.
Who didn't show up?
I forget.
Hmm.
I left my notes from that, uh, lying around somewhere, but...
I bet it's in your car.
Like everything else.
No, no, no, no.
I'm sure...
I think I just threw it away.
You know how I just sort of...
Yeah.
I didn't have a printed copy of the guest list with me, so I just sort of copied it down
from my sidekick onto my business cards and just scratched it out as people arrived.
Yeah.
But no, we met up in the lobby.
We left on time.
We got to the sushi restaurant on time.
We all sat down.
We ordered.
We divided the check up in a reasonable manner.
We ate.
We had a great time.
And we were out of there in an hour and ten minutes or so.
Yeah, hour and fifteen or so.
Yeah, hour and fifteen.
But just...
It went amazingly well.
I just like to...
I think we should really send shouts out to all the people that participated in it.
And we're just really genuinely cool people.
Mm-hmm.
And it was really a lot of fun to see everyone on the forums there and be able to associate
faces with names.
Oh, yeah.
Should I pull out that post and just list everyone who came and say shouts?
Oh, sure.
Go right ahead.
All right.
You know, we were saying it's abbreviated, but heck, let's go have some filler time.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, it's just...
The whole thing went amazingly well.
And we went to this restaurant called Sushi Fever in Las Vegas.
I don't know exactly where it's located.
It's on the area somewhere.
Yeah, the food...
What happened to the...
Oh, I guess they got unpinned by someone.
Oh.
All right.
I'll continue talking about it.
You can go find it.
Sushi Fever was very nice putting up with us.
Here it is.
Okay.
So, shouts to...
Oh, you.
You, Black Ratchet.
You were the first on the list there.
Oh, thank you.
You and Red Nerd.
Me.
Lunarsphere.
Was it Lunarsphere that didn't show up?
Lunarsphere didn't show up.
I didn't see Lunarsphere all weekend.
He promised me booze, too, and I was very disappointed.
So, Lunarsphere, you slow us booze.
Nen, Slicko, D-Mad, and Silent Slade.
Fluidic Slave.
Sub-Zero, 1037.
Along with Johnny Lightning, DJ Mollusk, Epiphany, and Little...
I'm sorry, The Foot.
The Foot is what he chose his handle.
And I love The Foot's hat.
The Foot's hat was awesome.
Oh, yes.
He wore a jester hat.
Oh, Kirst didn't show up either.
Oh, yeah.
He decided he had better things to do.
Yes, he was hanging out with Blake Ops.
We basically saw them.
We saw Blake Ops, Kirst, and Avid walking by us as we were leaving.
And we said, oh, well.
Sorry.
Petrified of a cubic centimeter to refresh June A.
Dr. Zygman.
Logic, I think is how he actually said his name, but it's xLogicX on the forums.
Serial Killer 76.
Who was a really cool dude and gave us awesome stickers.
Yeah.
And he actually won the scavenger hunt this year.
Yeah, he won the scavenger hunt this year for the DEF CON.
We'll talk about that later, because you guys did that Saturday.
Serial Killer's sticker, I just have to mention one of them, which is so cool.
If you lived dot, you'd be tilde by now.
And for those of you who don't know the Unix, it basically says,
for those of you who live, if you lived, and dot means current directory,
so if you lived here, you'd be, and the tilde basically means your home directory.
If you lived here, you'd be home by now.
Be home by now.
Yeah, I did a butchering job on that one, but anyway.
Okay, shouts to Serial Killer and DC530 for those awesome stickers.
Yes.
Cy Pete, Droops, and Mrs. Droops.
Mrs. Droops is hot.
I'll have to take your word on that one.
Royal.
Jason Scott, who came and took all sorts of cool photos of us.
Jason Scott, for those of you who don't know, is the textfiles.com guy.
Actually, just before I forget, Jason Scott's pictures are available on the forum
for those of you interested, forums.binrev.com.
I believe he posted them in the – let me go find out.
You can continue reading the list.
Athnex and Random Cola.
They're in the hack radio slash TV forums.
And the pictures are very good.
He had a nice camera.
Him and Sub-Zero, they had awesome cameras.
I thought I had a cool camera.
Digital cameras.
Yeah, they were just gorgeous.
I'm sure they cost me like a month's salary.
Oh, and Mrs. Droops is right on the front page.
Sweet.
Actually, he posted it in his album.
Let me time the URL that controls.
Yes, but the sushi was great.
The staff was very nice, especially for the fact that they basically told us,
you know, we're not sure if we can fit all you guys.
But in my defense, I did call them way ahead of time and say,
hey, I've got a party of 26.
Yeah.
It'll be tinyyroll.com slash D6ZHC.
Delta 6 Zulu.
Hotel Charlie.
Wow.
I feel kind of sad there.
Yes, and the pictures are completely awesome.
And he has gobs of them.
And I actually have pictures myself,
and I will post them online on my website in the future at some point.
So at that point, after the sushi party,
we just sort of went back and collapsed because technically I think –
no, actually we went out food shopping, didn't we?
No, we went back after the sushi party and went straight to Hacker Jeopardy, remember?
Oh, yes, Hacker Jeopardy, which is always very interesting.
We had actually both submitted questions and submitted a team,
neither of which got picked.
Hopefully next year we will own everyone in Hacker Jeopardy.
Indeed.
However, I did win a T-shirt by correctly identifying the tones of makeup receiver off-hook tone.
Yes, for those of you who don't know what receiver off-hook tone,
that's that annoying beep, beep, beep, beep, beep when you don't hang up your phone
that you can hear all the way across the apartment.
Yep, and that's what the point is.
After that, we just sort of – we went food shopping, you know, bought the necessaries.
Like, for example, I forgot my toothbrush and my toothpaste,
so we had to run out and buy that, and I believe Strom did the same,
and he didn't buy his hair stuff.
Strom's homosexual hair gel because of what we decided to call it, I think, right?
Yes, yes.
I didn't know – I forgot about that.
Homosexual hair gel.
Well, and so we also bought the necessaries such as cold cereal and beer because, you know,
when you're on DEF CON, you need to use your money wisely.
You can either spend it on booze or food.
Well, you've got to spend it on booze.
And cheap food.
So the more money you save on food is the more money you spend on booze.
And toys.
And souvenirs.
Yep.
So day two was a bit of a blur for me, to be honest with you.
I just sort of continued updating DEF CON by phone schedules.
Day two, I decided to just chill out and relax, and I did that because day one I was panicking about the schedule,
and day two, I just, you know, I decided –
Day two is the only day you weren't panicking.
Yes, yes.
Day three, I panicked for an entirely different reason, but we'll get into that.
Yeah.
And so we gave our talk on the evening of day two.
Yes.
Actually, well, the first thing that we did was you did the touch-tone speed dialing game.
Oh, yes, that's right.
We were going to do that during our talk, and we decided, you know what?
This is probably something that we don't want to fail miserably on, so let's beta test it.
So we went up to the people running the contest room.
We said, hey, we want to do an impromptu contest because I had a whole bunch of phone junk at my house that I wanted to get rid of.
Cool junk.
I just had no place to put it, and we decided to have giveaways.
So we set that up in the contest room.
We had four phones and a list of numbers, and everyone would pick up the phone at the same time and start dialing,
and whoever could dial the quickest and most accurately would win the prize.
And basically all the freaks turned out for it.
We met Royal.
We met Avid.
Technically, we met a lot of people on Friday.
We forgot to mention everybody, but everyone was here.
Royal, Avid, Natus, and a spattering of other people that we didn't know but just were interested in doing it.
We were talking it up.
Stank stopped by, didn't participate, little bastard, and was, oh, I can't dial phones.
Yeah, because he used his speed dial far too much with his little USB portable phone there.
In the same vein, Kevin Mitnick walked past and did not seem interested.
I think that he was there while we were setting up, and I think he left before we actually started doing it.
No, he was there while we were announcing speed dialing contest.
Oh, perhaps I wasn't paying attention.
At this point, I actually didn't follow one of my own rules, and I think I just sort of started suffering from heat exhaustion.
And I also somehow, between Friday and Saturday night, I caught a head cold in Las Vegas.
Now, Las Vegas is 110 degrees or some – actually, it's only about 105.
The colds are viral not due to temperature.
I know, but at the same point, you're like – if you're immunos – the warmer you get, the better your immunosystem – immune system gets.
That's true.
Yeah, so, I mean, I was expecting to be like, you know, take on everything, but, oh, God.
It just knocked me for a loop on Saturday morning, and I got dehydrated, so I had this headache.
And everyone just started smoking around us, because DEFCON is essentially – not just DEFCON.
Las Vegas in general is just this giant smoker's paradise.
All beer, all cigarettes all the time.
Yeah, and, oh, God.
But for someone like me, Massachusetts has banned smoking in restaurants, and while I don't like the law, I think the law is stupid.
I don't think the government should be getting involved with that.
I thoroughly enjoy the benefits of it.
But, oh, God.
It's a bit of a shock to actually walk into a restaurant and say, smoking or non-smoking?
And you say, oh, yeah, we have to answer that question now, don't we?
We also met a couple of cool people on the Touchtone dialing contest.
We met Paul, who didn't have a handle.
We will just leave it at that.
We won't say where he's from.
Paul, if you're listening, you know, you have my business card.
Hopefully, you followed the links.
We had a couple other cool people, just random people to stop by and start saying, oh, you're doing –
you know, just played the game and say, oh, are you doing the Astros talk?
And people were just, you know, stopping by and saying, oh, I'm going to your talk, which was really weird for me.
It was just very strange, because I really didn't expect us to be that big of a draw.
But anyway.
So after that, we went off and packed up, and I drank a boatload of water and had my Excedrin.
And then we went into –
And then we went to the Astros talk.
The Astros talk went amazingly well.
It was a fantastic success.
The room filled up.
People loved it.
Docs were dropped.
Yes, docs were accidentally dropped.
Hopefully, in recordings of that, those will be bleeped out.
But we could, yeah.
No, probably not.
Actually, DEF CON this year hopefully will be, like, streaming, actually.
They'll actually have audio streaming on their website at some point.
So you might be able to eventually catch our talk.
We actually can't, like, do it.
We might consider actually doing it live on the show for people who may be interested.
I'm not sure.
But as for us, like, you know, having a recording of our show, we can't record our show.
We essentially signed it over to DEF CON, which is, I guess, okay.
We sort of have our own problems with it.
But, you know, whatever.
If you guys want to hear our Astros talk, email us and let us know.
And we will put it on.
Yeah, we may just do it by ourselves and have it up for grabs someplace.
So, actually, you know, right before the show, Stank was very kind and introduced me to Alonka.
I like to say, you know, thanks to Alonka for stopping by.
And, you know, she actually had to run off and do something.
But it was very much a pleasure to meet you.
And we did something really amazingly innovative.
Oh, yeah.
Jeff, please.
Go ahead and explain it to us.
We had a call-in question and answer queue during our talk.
So, not only did people in the room get to ask us questions and get answers, but people calling from outside, calling from watching on TV in the hotel, got to call in to the Q&A queue and ask us questions.
And we actually had a couple people just, you know, calling in at random.
Yeah.
Well, I think actually, like, I think Ionix said he listened to the stream and tried to call in, but we couldn't hear him.
Oh.
So, we had, but seeing as we got audio on everything else, I think that wasn't a problem with our box.
Yeah.
So, yeah, we had a couple of people just, like, trying to get in for, I think Avid or Locutus or White, I think Avid, Locutus, White Sword, they were all in the same room and they tried to call in and they couldn't get in.
So, some strange thing happened that we couldn't actually hear certain people, so we'd like to apologize for that.
But we did successfully answer questions from people not there in the room, so.
Yes.
That was totally awesome.
And, I'll say, what's other some good talk?
We talked, also, the guy right before us, the prototyping design interfaces, he, that was a really cool talk.
It was essentially just all, you know, physical design and, you know, designing, like, layouts and everything.
And he had some, like, really cool old clips about people designing mice, like the original computer mice and everything.
It was a really cool talk.
And, also, I think, Saturday was ShmooFoo, who released some awesome tools.
Their talk is just fantastic every year.
I've always heard, like, good things about it.
And, when I actually, I just started going to DEF CON last year, and the first time I saw it, I was just completely blown away with some of the equipment and code they talk about.
Like, for example, they released this wonderful little semi-exploit for Kismet, which is a wireless war driving device, well, program, pardon me.
And, essentially, what it is, they get over it.
Yeah.
If we, if they, basically what happens, if you change your SSID to something with a slash OX1 on the front, you will not show up at any Kismet displays because of a formatting error in the data.
And, essentially, what they, one of the talks, they did, they have, like, a two-hour block, and they do, like, you know, four or five little short talks on everything.
And, they, one of the talks they did was just exploiting the exploiters, and they, essentially, just went into code for exploits and wrote counter-exploits for them.
So, if someone runs the exploit on you, it attacks back and breaks, and hacks them, which was really amazing stuff.
And, they also did this wireless war driving, you know, essentially, it's a handgun.
You carry it around, and it's just this self-contained unit that you can sniff Wi-Fi signals out with, and it has a highly directional antenna on it.
So, and it has a nice little display on it.
Just, some of the stuff they do is amazing.
I'd just like to send mad props to them.
It's the kind of stuff that I really wish I could do.
So, hey, maybe next year.
Yeah, maybe.
Did you see any good talks on Friday?
On Saturday?
Let me think.
The problem with DEF CON is it just sort of blends together.
Yeah.
I went to, I tried to go to the, I forget the title of the talk, but it was given by Alexey Smirnov and Takerche.
And I tried to sit there and listen to the guy.
And, I mean, some of these guys, I guess, are brilliant, but they can't speak.
You know, the guy was mumbling in a thick Russian accent.
That's the problem with a lot of these talks, but we won't get into that.
Yeah.
The guy was mumbling in a thick Russian accent.
I really couldn't understand him.
It looked like an interesting talk, though.
There were a couple I really wanted to catch but missed because I was running around like crazy.
But I went to see the Insecure Workstation 2, Bomb Reloaded.
That was a fairly decent talk.
That was cool.
I caught that on the Coast Circuit TV because I just wanted to collapse into my bed at that point for some reason.
Because I was just fully exhausted the entire weekend for some, that was one of the annoying bits.
But that was a really cool talk.
I caught that on the TV.
I caught the NLP talk.
Yeah.
Neurologistic Programming by Mystic.
That was Sunday.
Yeah.
And Mystic is cool.
Yeah.
Mystic is very cool.
Mystic hung out with us.
Thank you, Mystic.
Shouts to you.
And your talk was really cool.
It really is neat.
It's neurolinguistic programming.
Can you do a better talk explanation than I can because I basically know everything that he said.
Basically, NLP is, you know, I've heard two talks on NLP and I still actually can't explain it quite satisfactorily.
Really?
It's just, it's sort of the basis for social engineering.
How about that?
I've got, I haven't put it online yet, but I do have a recording of the NLP talk we had at DC213 a couple of months ago.
So I'll be putting that online.
So I'm going to take this opportunity to pimp my local DEF CON group, DC213.
And you go to dc213.org and we will eventually have that up.
Yeah, let's put that up soon.
Yeah.
So I'd like to catch that.
Because the problem is with, like, the problem with DEF CON is a lot of people have, like, hour block segments.
And for some of the subjects, it just really isn't enough.
We were very lucky to get a two-hour talk.
And, you know, we, but we carry, like, gobs information.
So I think they were very nice to us.
But at the same point, like, a lot of talks, I just want to go and say, well, continue talking.
I want to hear more.
So, and I think NLP was one of those talks that was really cool.
And I'd like to hear more about it.
So he has tons of links on there.
Just do a search for neuro-linguistic programming.
Oh, yeah.
Lots of cool stuff.
It's really fascinating stuff.
Essentially, it's brain hacking.
That's what it is.
How to win friends and influence others.
But not quite like the book.
Yes.
Then on Sunday.
Then Sunday.
Sunday I had, I went to a couple talks.
And then I suddenly realized that I didn't have my car keys.
Now, losing your keys in general is one thing.
Losing your keys at DEFCON is slightly more terrifying.
Losing your keys at DEFCON when you're in Las Vegas and your home is in Los Angeles and you have to drive four hours to get there.
Well, it wasn't so much the car keys I was worried about.
I figured if the car got stolen, I could always get that replaced.
It was the stuff in the car that I was worried about.
True.
And the fact that I've got non-duplicate, sorry, unique payphone keys on my key ring.
Only you would care about the payphone keys.
Well, no, see, I'm in an apartment and if those got lost, I'd never be able to get the payphones off the wall.
That might be true.
So, I ran around like crazy looking for the keys.
I want to thank the guys from HackThisSite.com who helped me look for the keys.
Only at DEFCON.
HackThisSite.com or HackThisSite.org?
Whichever one HackThisSite is.
Yeah, HackThisSite.
Yeah.
They were very cool in helping us out.
Essentially, Straub and I ran around to like three different apartments, hotel rooms, to look for these keys everywhere that he's been.
And so, like, this was, how long did this take?
Hours and hours and hours.
And then eventually, I like gave up and I looked in the places where I thought I'd already looked.
No, sorry, where you guys claimed you had already looked.
I didn't look there.
Blame Rednerd.
Yeah, okay, I'll blame Rednerd.
Rednerd claimed you looked in both the sofas.
I looked in one of the sofas, and they were stuck under, not the cushion of the sofa, but the crevice between where the arm of the sofa meets the base of the sofa.
Blake Gotts got a wonderful picture of me discovering them there, and I think the caption is owned.
Very much so.
Yes.
So, that was a complete waste of half my day because I called AAA and I had them unlock my car and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So, needless stressing out on Sunday, but I did chill out afterwards, had some beers, went to go eat good food, and life got better.
Yes.
So, that was essentially DEF CON.
After that, you know, he left, basically, essentially, Monday is Rednerd and I just hang out and hung out in the strip when we met up with Steak, Not Theory, Natus, Not Theory's girlfriend.
I don't even know who she, I don't know what the actual relationship was.
Not Theory's woman friend.
Female companion.
There we go.
That sounds a whole lot better.
Droops, Mrs. Droops, and, you know, we basically just chilled out, and I felt like I missed, I just kind of ignored them for a lot of the weekend because I was, we were all basically running around with our presentation and things.
Also, Stank's presentation.
Oh, my God, I can't believe I missed Stank's presentation.
Didn't even mention that.
We watched it on TV, though.
We watched it on TV because the line was huge.
It was simply amazing.
I thought, oh, you know, oh, it'll be a good size, you know, I'll show up 15 minutes early and get in.
No.
Essentially, the line, I would say, would probably be about 2,000, I don't know, about 1,000 feet long.
It was just, it was like two or three people deep, wide.
Simply amazing.
And Stank's presentation went really well.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
He did it as a local DEF CON group, so for those of you who have seen it before, other than the DEF CON, it was just, it was just, it was really cool.
It's just all those little silly things you can do with Google AdWords.
There's a lot of people who were, you know, it was apparently someone live blogged it and just, just basically complaining about it.
Oh, he's going over the basics of Google AdWords.
This is so stupid.
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, you know, I, it was just really cool.
It's just all a little, it's, it's not like this.
Well, that's sort of like, I forget who it was, but they, they said that our talk wasn't, wasn't going to go into enough detail about Asterisk.
Yeah.
The reaction to that was, you know, what do you want them to do?
Go into the syntax of extensions.conf?
I mean, come on.
Yeah, someone complained to the Beeb.
The Beeb went to our talk, the Beeb of Telefreak.org.
And he, he's cool.
He hung up with us afterwards.
He had a couple of beers together.
Him, myself, Strom, Blake Ops, we, we just hung out together at the room and he, he, he's a really cool guy.
Shout out to him.
And someone, but what happened was someone complained to him that, oh, it didn't go technical enough.
And it was just, what, what our presentation was, was essentially what we wanted to do was let people there, not like knowing the nitty gritty of Asterisk with the same pipe, be able to go out there and, you know, fix it all up.
Yeah, the, the, my theory at least on giving a presentation and this sort of thing is, if you want the technical details, like the really nitty gritty technical details, you can read the documentation.
Yeah.
If you want to know, hey, this is how it works, this is how it fits together, this is what to do, this is what to avoid, you know, someone actually telling you about it, go to the talk.
Exactly.
You know, basically what it is, and I always think talks are like, you know, just interesting ways to whet one's whistle.
And then, you know, if you want to learn more, do it yourself.
That's how you learn.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm, I'm sure we've like forgotten so many things, but like, Stank's presentation was really cool.
I, I, I, I, I, I learned out a couple of things beforehand because he showed it to me, but at the same point he covered a lot of interesting things you can do with, uh.
The three things that surprised me about DEF CON by phone were A, how popular it was, B, how many people liked it, and C, how we didn't actually get hacked.
If people can own us through DTMF, we're, we're really having problems.
Yes, but still, I mean, you would think, they, they gave us a warning in the, as we submitted the number to them.
They said, just realize that if you're putting this out in the public at DEF CON, you're going to get a free security audit.
Yes, and, and, and, and, and I was quite, quite paranoid the whole thing.
Oh, I'm so exhausted from DEF CON.
Yeah, yes, and so, you know, basically, you know, Monday I hung out with them, and Strom drove back, and then Monday night I took the,
myself and Redner took the red eye back, and Song Airlines is really cool with the fact that they have these little video screens for you and coach that you can, like, watch TV on.
But, oh.
It's also JetBlue.
Oh, JetBlue does too?
Yeah, and, and, and actually, the interesting thing that we saw was it runs Linux.
We saw it rebooting in this little penguin up in this corner.
I took pictures, but they're incredibly blurry.
And, oh, man, they just cram you in there, and you cannot sleep in those seats.
It's, uh, both Rednerd and I, we just, basically, I, I fell asleep for 30 minutes, and I woke up, and my insides hurt.
But you think that's bad.
Try and go, try going coach on an international flight.
Oh, I don't even want to imagine that.
18 hours in a, in coach in a 747.
Oh, goodness.
No, thank you.
I'm, I'm just not going to imagine that.
Well, try to imagine that.
Yeah, five-hour red-eye flight, and essentially, we left Las Vegas at 10, and I arrived into Boston at 6, and I got home around 7.30, and I, you know, talked around for a while, you know, and just collapsed into bed.
And I woke up at 2.50, thank God, and just rapidly worked on the sites, rapidly worked on the show notes this week, and did all the other things, and basically descended into taping.
And that brings us to right this very instant.
Yeah, and that brings us to right now, so.
I wish we could tell you about all the fun things that happened in the future, but, you know, unfortunately, that's not going to happen.
And I, I, I'm, I'm so sorry, because I'm just, I'm just completely glossing over things.
It's basically since how I spent my DEF CON vacation.
Yeah.
This is, this is also the, oh, shit, we, we, we've got a show, and we've got a show to do, and we don't have any material left.
Let's just ramble on about DEF CON.
Yeah, we, we want to do a DEF CON wrap it, and we wrap up, and we promised you guys content, and hopefully I'm going to have this edited up and up on the stream this week, knock on wood.
So, we've been going for like an hour and 10-ish minutes.
Yeah.
We did actually, we, we decided that we might want to have some sort of call in line for BINREV Radio.
Yeah.
And I said that, and I, I just posted on the forum, and nobody is calling in.
Well, this was very short notice.
We're going to, we're going to have a call in line, and what it is, is during the live, we're going to have live shows, and you guys can call in and talk to us, and do your questions for the exact topic that we're covering this week, rather than show it out.
Mm-hmm, and what, what is going to happen is we're going to take this down while we're not going to have a, yeah, while we're not recording live, where the call in line number will be a voicemail number, so you can leave us messages.
Yes, you can leave us messages about how we select, Mikey, go right ahead, come on, you know, you want to.
Are we going to do that 213 number, or are we going to do a toll-free number?
I think we should do 213 at first, and if we have a toll number, we can do a toll number.
Yeah.
Toll-free.
Come on, 213, I, Blake Ops thoroughly impressed me with his, like, eight pages of, like, little tiny eight font print of Folger cards at DEFCON, so I know you guys have it, you can use it, you can send us questions, so do you want to give that number?
Yeah, you might, we'll give out the number now, and you note it for next time.
Yes.
The number will be area code, well, the number actually is, area code 213-415-1047.
For those of you who don't know, okay.
Area code 213-415-1047.
For those of you who weren't paying attention, this was the call-in number for the DEFCON talk.
Yes.
So we decided to recycle it into something else for BIMRiver Radio.
Yeah, the call-in number for BIMRiver Radio.
Because, you know, reuse, recycle, and other one.
Reduce.
Reduce, there we go.
So I don't know how we're reducing by getting more phone numbers, but...
Well, no, we're only using one phone number for two things.
That's true, that's true.
Yes, that also falls under reuse.
So anyway, I think that's enough content for this week.
I'm really tired, I want to go back to bed.
Yeah, me too, I'm going to go back to bed.
So thanks, guys, for listening to the DEFCON zombie edition of BIMRiver Radio, episode 107.
Note the number again for call-in next time.
Send us email, send us your rants, we'll have a voicemail.
The topic for next week is what we're going to do, I want to put this out there,
is we're going to do basic hacking, essentially.
You know, hacking 101, we're going to go over some basic stuff, show some basic sites.
So if you have some stuff that you want to, like, you know, try to get some onto the show,
or you want to have some questions, you know, send us an email, send us an email, radio at binrev.com,
and, you know, sir, send us with the new voicemail system that will be up when this stream is live.
Mental note, set that stream live.
Get it up before the stream, and, you know, that's what we're going to shoot to do,
and I'm not sure who we're having a guest this week.
Also, you know, apologies for lack of a guest this week.
We were looking for someone to talk to, but everyone we know is still at DEF CON, or in Las Vegas.
Or just totally dead.
Or, yeah, or going to sleep.
I was like, PlayCops was the only one actually still alive, and he said,
I'm going to bed before I have to go to school.
I can't do it.
So, I mean, I'm not, call him a pussy, but...
Eh, oh well, next week.
But, yeah, I was going to mention something, and now I've forgotten what it is.
Oh, yeah, so, yeah, I guess I forgot.
Okay.
Anyway, we'll send shouts out.
I'll send shouts out to Blakeoff, Frednerd, Stank.
Essentially, everyone I met at DEF CON, and I met a few people that I just didn't mention,
and I'm terribly sorry I didn't remember your names or sent you out.
But I'm, Alonka, definitely, you know, I was just, you know, oh, God,
I can't remember the girl's name from the EFF.
Oh, no.
Emily.
Emily, yes, is it?
Emily Moore.
Yeah.
And, you know, I met a ton of good people, and thank you so much.
And for people who gave my business cards out of email me, let's talk, I mean, I'm just,
I got really involved in the social aspect this year, something I really didn't do last year.
And it was just a sheer amount of amazing people there.
And I'm sorry about, like, all the talks that I actually did go to and didn't mention you,
I don't think I ran into a bad talk this year.
Shouts to the Shmoo Group, too.
And I could probably go on and on.
So who do you want to send shouts out to?
Again, shouts to everyone I met at DEF CON.
Shouts especially to Hack the site for helping me look for my keys.
Shouts to them, yes.
Yes.
And, God, shouts to everyone I talk to.
Again, same thing.
If I gave you my business card, please get in contact with me.
Let's chat.
You know, I'm always up for making more friends.
I'm trying to remember anyone else.
Shouts to Sleep.
Yeah, shouts to Sleep.
And a giant fuck you to Song Airlines.
And shouts to Alex.net for rating us a bullshit presentation.
Oh, yeah.
Shouts to Alex.net.
Well, for those of you who don't know…
AL3X.net.
Our talk got rated as bullshit on his, you know, giant tote board of talks I want to see, talks I want to avoid, and talks I might go to.
So we wore that like a badge right on our sleeve.
Yeah.
We put it on as the first slide of our presentation.
Rated a bullshit presentation by Alex.net.
Yes.
Oh, shouts to Rax.
Rax, Not Theory, Natus.
That's all the people that came to our talk, too, definitely.
Oh, God.
And just God.
Who else did it?
Rocket.
Rocket from Interzone.
I met him, too.
He's awesome.
I'll have to drag him on to the show before we talked about Interzone, before that starts up.
God, I could go on and on.
I met just so many cool – I met so many cool people, and it's just – it's hard to list you all.
Thank you so much, and, you know, anyone who liked the presentation and came up to me or said hi, thank you very much.
Likewise.
And, you know, anyone who just came up and said hi, you know, shouts to you, you know, whatever.
So, anyway, email RadioBinRev.com.
Side of the week – I'm not sure if we've ever mentioned this on the show.
I know we haven't – is Epitonic.com, which is a bunch of free MP3s.
And, essentially, I got the closing music – I've essentially been getting the closing music off there.
Stank has, too, forever.
So – and the closing music this night – it's a really cool site.
The closing music tonight is I Am Fearless, Funky, and Five by Groove Armada.
So, see you next week.
Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
I Am Fearless, Funky, and Five by Groove Armada.
See you next week.
I Am Fearless, Funky, and Five by Groove Armada.
I Am Fearless, Funky, and Five by Groove life.
I Am Fearless, Funky, and Five by Groove Armada.
Thank you.