WEBVTT

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This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.

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I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you

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in a fag pose, in your digital stance, getting firewalls hoes, cause I'm riding the net in

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my six foes, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable,

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on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and

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I'm a hero, in a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through

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my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hood, you just caught

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the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I carved the fight between Un and Jay-Z, cause CG, it's

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all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattle

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in your bones, when I tell you we just packed out Jones, and NASDAQ leaves you flat on your

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back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial phones, source codes, ISO, RAM, this,

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this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

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Hello and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode one, one six, one, one six.

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You've got a nice little space there.

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Anyway, I'll take, I'll take over from here on in, cause we can't apparently, Lord knows

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what we'll do for the date.

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Today's air date, October 4th, 2005.

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I'm Black Ratchet.

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I'm going to take that as 10 slash 4 slash 2-0-0-5.

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Yes.

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2-0-0-5.

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1-0 slash 4 slash 2-0-5.

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Yes, and our co-host this week is Steve, the glorious Natus.

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Yo.

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What's going on, man?

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Nothing, what's up, guys?

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This is the first time you've been on the show with us, haven't it?

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With you guys, yeah.

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Yeah.

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We're cool.

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Yeah, we got that.

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So, I'll add a new level of unprofessionalism to the show.

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Oh, good, good.

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Lord knows we try not to keep it professional here.

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We keep, we keep, we try to keep it above freak factor.

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That's about it.

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He's going to make us look like we wear suits all the time.

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Oh, I'm actually wearing a three-piece suit right now.

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Well, well, well.

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And a little bow tie.

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I try to, I try to, try to approach the show very officially and pragmatically.

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I'm wearing a Quest polo shirt.

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I'm wearing a Yankees hat and a white t-shirt.

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Yeah, we won't talk about your damn Yankees.

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Next on VinRev Radio, what are you wearing?

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I was calling in line tonight so we can go get a, like, you know, have a little phone sex thing going on here.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Anyway, we're not live.

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Thanks to the glory of our server and our conference bridge, I spent all weekend trying to hammer away at it, but all the time we were trying to do it, you would start, we'd all connect to the conference bridge, or well, technically, I would connect to the conference bridge with two phones, and it would sound fine.

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And then, like, within five minutes, it would all go to hell, and there'd be this, you know, slightly annoying ten-second lag or so.

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It was annoying.

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Look at that way.

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Very annoying.

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And such, I really don't think you guys want to listen to ten seconds of silence between every switch of conversations.

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Well, yeah, of course I want to listen to that.

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Yeah.

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We could sound like a bunch of other radio shows out there.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, I've been going through podcasts, and some of them are very scary.

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This whole internet radio thing is really getting way out of hand.

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We were here first, damn it.

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Stay off my lawn.

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I don't think we have much for the housekeeping this week, besides the whole not being live.

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Yeah, we're working hard to bring you the Binrev Radio live that you know and love.

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Oh, what have you done?

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I've done everything.

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I've been busy, yeah, going on a lot of dates this week, but, you know.

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Strom's thinking with his little head rather than his big one.

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Yeah.

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I do blood, sweat, and tears at this show.

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And you, you know, sip mimosas.

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Yep.

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Well, anything for a good life, right?

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Yeah, I guess so.

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All right, well, I don't know, Nettis, do you have anything for housekeeping?

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I don't know, really.

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I really don't think so.

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But anyway, so let's go right to the email.

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Our first email tonight is from Digital Evolution, or from, I'm sorry, Backspace from Digital Evolution.

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Kind of has a little signature going on there.

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Hi, guys.

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With regards to the question about new PG slash PGP compatibility, and it's on the newpg.org website.

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And what it says is you have to run with a little option for your new PG to run with PGP compatibility mode.

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And I'll go tiny URL that.

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But anyway, the other thing he says is, I can't believe you guys would actually advocate that people keep quiet about their skills.

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Your friend has grounds to sue for the wrongful dismissal based on the story you told on the show.

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A boss can't just fire you because something happened to the phone system without having some sort of proof that you did it.

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Your friend should contact a labor lawyer and make sure that his best interests are looked after.

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Of course, judgment is also a skill you should have as a hacker, and I personally don't readily divulge information of what I know.

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However, saying that you should shut up and keep your head down when it comes to bad corporate security is simply not a good idea.

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It is part of the reason why many companies are unaware of the problems in their own software.

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Just my two cents worth.

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Well, judgment is key.

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Sadly, with a lot of bad security, there's nothing you can really do about it, and a lot of people just want to put their heads in the sand.

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I've caught a lot of flack from my upstairs, the head IT department, over the years that I've worked at my job,

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when I point out their stupidity in certain efforts that they've made, and mine thus have pissed off more than a few people.

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I do not advocate, you know, stuffing your fingers and your ears and going, la, la, la, la, la, la, when you see something that's wrong,

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but I do favor biting your tongue when it's a fight not worth fighting.

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I can think of a couple of things, which I really don't want to say on air because I don't want to own my company,

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but there's more than a few things that they've done where I've just said, no, this is wrong.

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But at the same point, they've already made their decision, and anything that I say will just fall on deaf ears,

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so I'm not going to expend my effort.

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Welcome to the real world, eh?

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Well, one thing that strikes me, and I'm just going to prefix this with I am not a lawyer,

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but check the employment contract because a lot of places, they can and will fire you for no reason whatsoever.

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A lot of places actually can do that.

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I believe Massachusetts can do that.

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I'm not sure about...

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Yeah, right to work state.

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Yeah, which actually is something I kind of believe in because they're basically paying you money to show up,

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and they can stop paying you at any time.

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The URL in reference to your question is tinyurl.org slash 9victorbravo3.

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I'm sorry, that's all about...

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Not right to work state, it's...

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No, I think it is right to work state, isn't it?

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Is it? No, no, no, it's...

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What the hell is the term?

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It's not right to...

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I personally...

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No, because I always thought it was stupid, because I always figured it should be something called right to fire.

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No, sorry, at will employment, that's right, at will employment.

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Oh, that could be it.

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Yes, I think right to work is something else, though.

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It sounds familiar.

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Yeah, right to work is something else that I misreferenced.

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But yeah, at will employment.

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If it's at will employment, there's actually almost nothing you can do as far as I know.

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Of course, check with the lawyer.

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Yeah, you guys are both wrong.

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It's .org.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's .org, .orgie, because that's what all...

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I mean, that's the actual...

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Orgy where?

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That's the first sexual URL.

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It's not this .xxx they were talking about.

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It's .orgie.

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Our next email tonight is from Sid.

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I'll email.

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I'll read this one.

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Oh, you want to read this one?

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Go ahead.

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Okay.

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You guys should look into Evdo, Evolution Data Only, or Evolution Data Optimized Mobile Data Services.

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Verizon Wireless is marketing Evdo as Vcast, and it's hot.

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I think it's in something like 12 markets, and in Denver Metro, anyway, they're pulling constant speeds of like 700K down with bursts as high as 2.2 megs.

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Specs for Evdo do max out at 2.4, if I'm not mistaken, and it's a CDMA-only technology, which means no singular and no T-Mobile.

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But word is, Sprint's got their Evdo implemented and switched on, but I don't think they're selling access yet.

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Sprint usually likes to roll things out all at once.

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Anyway, that's it.

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Thanks for...

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Anyway, that's it.

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Thanks for the show and all that.

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That's it.

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Actually, that was Strom scoring up.

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That wasn't like a grammar problem.

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And Strom, just so you know, because I just want to make you sound like an idiot through the entire thing, it's Evdo.

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Well, he's got Ev-do, so I assumed it was pronounced Evdo.

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I actually think that's how Verizon abbreviates it, but it is Ev-do, and even though it's actually spelled like that, it's Ev-do.

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So, yeah, I did some quick research on Ev-do.

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And, wow, I was quite impressed.

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Of course, I did this research on everyone's favorite world-writable encyclopedia, wikipedia.org.

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I can't be here.

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Tiny URL, wikipedia.org.

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No, no, no, that's the actual article.

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Oh, okay.

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The Alpha Uniform 8 Echo Tango Yankee.

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There's no echo in there.

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Did I say echo or tango?

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You said echo tango.

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Oh, sorry.

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Alpha Uniform 8 Tango Yankee.

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Boy, I just can't talk tonight.

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I was quite impressed with this.

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I had no clue that this was out there.

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I was apparently Verizon's previous, whatever you want to call what it was, that was like 144 kilobits down.

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And I'm curious who was based on this, but I don't know.

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You know what I heard?

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I heard that it's just multiple streams of data.

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It's like the slower one, but the cards have multiple channels or receivers.

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Yeah, multiple 10i in them.

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Yeah, so it's getting like 10 144k connections at once or something like that, whatever the slower one was.

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Could be.

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Yeah, I know also that the technology, I don't know if this is the actual name of the technology, but the one that seems to be on a GSM network is Edge.

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Yeah.

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Enhanced data.

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That's like the GSM equivalent.

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Yeah.

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Does that go as fast as it did?

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Because I was reading this one goes down to like 2.4 megabits a second.

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Let's take a look.

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I don't think Edge is as fast.

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't.

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But, of course, as they say.

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Yeah, sorry.

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Go ahead.

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Does it say if they have that in Boston there?

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I've seen people with the Vcash thing.

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I don't know if anyone has Edge yet, but I've never seen an Edge deployed anywhere.

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I thought AT&T was actually deploying it last year.

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I don't know.

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I know Edge is deployed, but I don't know if a lot of things are using it.

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I know when I lived in New York, EVDO was getting kind of big, and I actually bought an EVDO card at a flea market one day for like $50.

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Or no, I bought it for like $15, and I sold it on eBay for like $100.

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Holy crap.

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What flea market did you go to, and where can I go?

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Wow.

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It was a flea market in New York.

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Damn.

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Yeah, I'm sure there's only one flea market in New York.

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It's a small town.

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No, it's on the west side.

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Yeah, here we go.

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27th Street.

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There are noobs in New York.

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Anyway, Edge has enhanced data rates for GSM evolution, and it can carry data speeds up to 384 kilobits per second in packet mode.

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That's cool.

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I'll be waiting for that.

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Yeah, like I was saying, that EVDO maxes out at 2.4 megs, but however they say that's under nominal condition.

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So it's basically you staying stationary, probably right underneath the transmitter, and you getting brain cancer and everything.

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One thing I didn't see is I'm curious what the latency is on this, because with wireless transmission, your latency skyrockets through the roof.

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But if it's what everyone thinks it is, it's going to be pretty cool for VoIP.

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I mean, heck, you don't even need the EVDO, and if it's multiple 144K streams, all you need is one 144 kilobit stream, and you're all set.

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Yeah, I know someone that has an EVDO card, so I'll talk to them about it.

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Yeah, that'd be fun.

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Run some experiments and see what happens.

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And if any of the listeners have EVDO, try it out, send a report in, and we'll get your email on the air.

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They had a big special at TourCon.

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Yeah, they were selling the cards.

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Yeah, they were giving away the cards, basically, if you get the service.

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How much does the service cost, you know?

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$60 a month or so?

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That's not bad.

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Yeah, when I was going to get it in New York like three months ago, it was like $80 a month.

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That'd be pretty cool if they came out with a contact flash card that could do that.

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What I really want is I want an EVDO on my phone.

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Like, I want BlackBerrys with EVDO compatibility built in.

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Well, I was thinking if it was – oh, I was thinking that if it was a contact flash card,

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I could put it in my pocket PC and use, like, Skype or – not Skype, what the heck they call it – SJPhone.

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Just use all SIP.

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That would be pretty cool.

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Yeah.

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Apparently, the mobile phone operators are scared shitless of VoIP over EVDO.

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Well, no shit.

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Anyway, enough about EVDO.

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Our next email is a little bit similar to that.

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Hi, BlackRatchet.

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On the show, you're wondering about naming conventions that AMD uses for Athlon chips.

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The name is based on performance results from integer operation comparisons between the AMD and the Pentium 4 processors.

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So, if you have an AMD Athlon at 1.8 gigahertz, its integer operation performance is close to that of a Pentium 4 at 2.1 gigahertz.

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Therefore, they named the chip the AMD Athlon 2100.

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However, when you compare them on floating point operations, the Pentium chip would surpass the performance of the AMD because of the higher speed of the Pentium chip.

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Later, Megatron.

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Yep, that's what I thought.

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I mean, I – if we go – I'll talk about it more in hacking stories, but I just got an AMD 2100, and it's only – it's like 1.733 gigahertz or something.

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And it's a pretty – personally, I think it's a stupid way of naming chips.

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Just give the damn clock speed out.

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I mean, clock speed doesn't mean anything, but everyone else uses clock speed, so you can basically make apples for apples, oranges – apples to apples comparison to clock speed on x86.

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As opposed to oranges to Buick.

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Yes, well, oranges and Buick should be like a x86 to a RISC.

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Alpha, alpha.

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There we go.

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So, shame on you, AMD.

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You suck.

15:35.120 --> 15:38.680
Yeah, this really pisses me off because I just – I was computer shopping like a week ago.

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I just bought a new shuttle PC, and I was looking at a lot of the AMD ones, and I thought it was even worse.

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I thought it was like the AMD Athlon 2700 was like a clock speed of 18 – or 1.8 gigahertz now.

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Yeah, I recall having a 2000 plus, which was like 1.4 gigahertz.

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Yeah, it was ridiculous.

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I was just so pissed off at AMD.

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I was like, all right, I'm not even going to bother.

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I'm just getting an Intel.

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So I got like a P4.

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Well, I always see that they're kind of taking this page from Apple's playbook because they always used to like say, oh, well, our PowerPC G3 700 megahertz is just as fast as a Pentium 4 1.4 gigahertz.

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And I go, no.

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And you can make some arguments that the PowerPC is certainly faster in Pentium 4 in some aspects, but you're not going to say that, oh, we're twice as fast as the same clock speed of another chip.

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No, sorry.

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No, you just don't do that.

16:37.820 --> 16:43.500
And even with AMD, you just can't say, oh, well, with floating point operations, we suck, but with integer operations, we rock.

16:43.500 --> 16:46.000
It's stupid.

16:46.740 --> 16:47.360
Enough said.

16:47.740 --> 16:47.860
Yeah.

16:48.460 --> 16:49.980
It's just so far off it doesn't make sense.

16:50.020 --> 16:54.400
I'm looking at it right now and it says the 2700 is 2.16 gigahertz.

16:54.620 --> 16:56.800
So it's like 600 megahertz off.

16:57.660 --> 17:00.480
But they're misleading for there.

17:01.120 --> 17:01.380
Mm-hmm.

17:02.060 --> 17:03.520
And it's just going to get worse.

17:03.640 --> 17:06.500
I mean, they're going to start coming off like AMD 3500s.

17:07.580 --> 17:09.040
Yeah, what are they up doing now, aren't they?

17:09.040 --> 17:12.540
They're already in the 3000s and the clock speed is not even like close.

17:13.500 --> 17:16.700
I don't – I'm not sure what they've done.

17:17.340 --> 17:26.600
I think the – I'm not sure what they have for the Opterons, but they're – I believe their latest x86 chipset are 2800s.

17:27.360 --> 17:29.600
Yeah, Opterons are 64-bit and that's all new.

17:30.920 --> 17:32.940
That's another fun thing to compare to.

17:34.600 --> 17:35.380
All right, let's see.

17:35.380 --> 17:36.200
I'm looking at one right now.

17:36.200 --> 17:41.080
It says AMD Athlon XP 3000 Plus, 2.167 gigahertz.

17:41.080 --> 17:48.780
So AMD, you lying, mean, people, you.

17:49.380 --> 17:50.940
And they've been doing this for a long time too.

17:51.040 --> 17:52.380
This isn't something like they just started.

17:52.700 --> 17:53.700
They've been doing this for like two years.

17:54.240 --> 17:55.160
Oh, more than two years.

17:55.640 --> 17:56.300
No, no.

17:56.440 --> 18:00.860
They did this about two years is what I would say on the outside.

18:00.860 --> 18:09.680
No, I recall having – buying a used chip with this sort of nonsense going on over two years ago.

18:09.760 --> 18:12.080
So I think it's at least two and a half, maybe three years.

18:12.860 --> 18:15.280
Well, it's when they came out with the XP chip set.

18:15.360 --> 18:16.560
So whenever they came up with that.

18:17.160 --> 18:17.720
I think it was –

18:17.720 --> 18:22.920
Yeah, because I have an Athlon Thunderbird and it's measured its clock speed.

18:23.140 --> 18:26.940
It's a 1,200 megahertz chip and they say it's 1,200 megahertz.

18:27.400 --> 18:27.640
Mm-hmm.

18:28.480 --> 18:31.200
So Wikipedia is to the rescue.

18:32.020 --> 18:32.220
Yeah.

18:33.800 --> 18:37.940
Anyway, while Strom is researching that, we can sort of go on to show and tell, I guess.

18:39.580 --> 18:40.580
Dennis, what have you been doing?

18:43.020 --> 18:43.380
Nothing.

18:43.380 --> 18:47.920
You've just been sitting there.

18:48.900 --> 18:51.700
Are you currently located in New York City?

18:52.820 --> 18:53.420
No, I'm not.

18:53.500 --> 18:53.940
It sucks.

18:54.060 --> 18:54.940
I'm really bummed on it.

18:55.120 --> 18:56.940
But hopefully I'll be moving again soon.

18:57.560 --> 18:57.980
Oh, cool.

18:59.040 --> 18:59.480
Yeah.

19:00.880 --> 19:07.900
So you're just sort of sitting there in the – your underground lair located underneath the Denver International Airport.

19:08.820 --> 19:09.120
Mm-hmm.

19:09.180 --> 19:10.720
October 9, 2001.

19:12.040 --> 19:12.320
Wow.

19:12.320 --> 19:13.860
God, I feel old all of a sudden.

19:17.460 --> 19:17.940
Oh, yeah.

19:18.440 --> 19:19.080
Back to me.

19:22.040 --> 19:22.320
Yeah.

19:22.460 --> 19:24.420
I mean, what are we going to go back to you?

19:24.480 --> 19:25.680
You're saying, oh, I've done nothing.

19:26.360 --> 19:27.060
I've been sitting there.

19:28.160 --> 19:28.460
Ah, yeah.

19:28.520 --> 19:30.020
I flew to Montreal this weekend and went gambling.

19:30.300 --> 19:30.860
That was pretty fun.

19:31.500 --> 19:31.940
Oh, yeah.

19:31.960 --> 19:32.780
I saw you in the forums.

19:33.700 --> 19:37.080
From the sounds of it, you were positive, so I assume you won money.

19:37.840 --> 19:39.160
Yeah, I won a bunch of money.

19:39.160 --> 19:42.780
What have you been doing, Strom?

19:43.780 --> 19:44.500
Not much.

19:45.300 --> 19:46.020
Not much, really.

19:47.020 --> 19:49.260
Just been busy with school and real life.

19:50.340 --> 19:51.220
God, you're all pathetic.

19:52.300 --> 19:52.660
Yeah, I really like that.

19:52.660 --> 19:53.460
I got a new computer.

19:54.580 --> 19:54.900
Ooh.

19:55.600 --> 19:56.800
Yeah, I finally broke the –

19:56.800 --> 19:57.060
I'm waiting for mine.

19:57.160 --> 19:59.360
I bought that shuttle PC and it still hasn't gotten here.

20:00.200 --> 20:01.500
What are you going to do with the shuttle PC?

20:01.640 --> 20:04.800
Are you going to use it for a documenter?

20:04.900 --> 20:08.200
Are you going to use it for a desktop or are you going to be using it for, like, an entertainment center?

20:09.580 --> 20:09.900
No.

20:10.140 --> 20:10.840
Desktop, basically.

20:11.980 --> 20:14.580
I want to put Gen 2 on it.

20:15.300 --> 20:16.740
Why does everyone like Gen 2?

20:16.740 --> 20:18.700
I don't understand why everyone likes Gen 2.

20:19.240 --> 20:20.160
The right to repeal.

20:21.540 --> 20:22.540
It really is.

20:22.680 --> 20:26.380
When we were at TourCon, my friend had Gen 2 and he was like, yeah, you know, you've got to get into Gen 2.

20:26.380 --> 20:31.860
It seems like if I'm ever going to get serious about Linux, I need to learn how to do everything on my own.

20:32.040 --> 20:34.140
So I might as well start playing with Gen 2.

20:36.340 --> 20:37.000
I don't know.

20:37.100 --> 20:37.640
I like Debian.

20:37.860 --> 20:38.380
Debian's good.

20:39.960 --> 20:42.800
Debian handles it no problem.

20:43.520 --> 20:46.780
My two close Linux friends are all Gen 2 now.

20:46.880 --> 20:50.660
So I guess it helps if I'm going Gen 2 and they can help me out with stuff.

20:50.860 --> 20:52.360
You have the Mac, don't you?

20:52.440 --> 20:54.400
You should get, like, Yellow Dog or something.

20:55.260 --> 20:56.060
Yeah, I have the Mac.

20:56.620 --> 20:58.640
Well, I need a new PC, too, to play around with.

20:59.740 --> 21:01.120
Let's delete PC things.

21:01.560 --> 21:02.820
You can do everything on a Mac.

21:02.900 --> 21:03.860
Steve Jobs told me so.

21:05.140 --> 21:06.500
He can do pretty much everything.

21:06.800 --> 21:08.300
I think so, but I don't know.

21:09.020 --> 21:11.640
We should get Natus on one of those Switch commercials.

21:12.040 --> 21:13.020
Hey, Natus.

21:14.340 --> 21:15.380
I used to like a PC.

21:17.520 --> 21:18.700
Now I'm hacking the Mac.

21:18.700 --> 21:24.300
Yeah, I'm going to go on record right now as saying that I like Mac hardware, but the

21:24.300 --> 21:26.660
OS X interface, just, no.

21:27.260 --> 21:27.760
Oh, really?

21:27.860 --> 21:29.620
I don't know the OS X interface.

21:29.840 --> 21:31.300
It bugs the hell out of me.

21:31.440 --> 21:32.340
It's too schmaltzy.

21:32.420 --> 21:33.280
I want something simple.

21:34.000 --> 21:37.200
That's, like, the first thing I'm going to try and do on my Gen 2 box is get it to look

21:37.200 --> 21:37.840
like this Mac.

21:38.660 --> 21:40.740
Mac's all steezy and shit, and I like the Finder.

21:41.260 --> 21:41.520
I don't know.

21:41.520 --> 21:42.260
I like the way it's set up.

21:43.160 --> 21:44.020
Don't like Finder.

21:44.200 --> 21:44.500
Don't.

21:44.820 --> 21:46.500
I like the desktop interface.

21:46.660 --> 21:47.140
It's pretty good.

21:49.580 --> 21:50.960
I like the dock and all that.

21:51.480 --> 21:53.720
Yeah, the dock is the big thing.

21:55.240 --> 21:57.620
My PC is running Debian right now.

21:57.900 --> 21:58.960
We are going off topic.

21:59.080 --> 22:01.140
I'm going to pull us back to reality.

22:01.580 --> 22:03.760
Well, no, we're talking about personal hacking stories.

22:04.340 --> 22:05.300
We're talking about how.

22:06.580 --> 22:08.560
That's why I have a Mac is because I like the icons.

22:09.060 --> 22:11.000
Screw this terminal nonsense.

22:11.000 --> 22:15.520
The only thing that drives me nuts about Mac hardware is that, well, they used to, and

22:15.520 --> 22:19.300
now they sort of have this quasi-two-button mouse, but they don't admit it that it has

22:19.300 --> 22:19.840
two buttons.

22:20.260 --> 22:21.000
Oh, my God.

22:21.040 --> 22:23.120
That was the stupidest thing ever, the mighty mouse.

22:23.460 --> 22:24.120
Yeah, I know.

22:24.340 --> 22:25.220
Oh, my God.

22:25.260 --> 22:26.780
It's about time they fucking came out.

22:27.020 --> 22:31.900
It's like Steve Jobs doesn't want to admit he's been wrong for these past 20 years or something.

22:32.540 --> 22:36.180
Yeah, do you know how many times I've heard that Mac joke where it's like, the Apple engineers

22:36.180 --> 22:38.480
are hard at work on a two-button mouse?

22:38.480 --> 22:42.540
It's about time they came out with the goddamn thing already.

22:43.000 --> 22:44.180
What was the other joke?

22:44.600 --> 22:50.420
Name the Mac user says to the PC user, tell me one thing that you can do that my Mac can't

22:50.420 --> 22:52.040
do, and the PC user says, right-click.

22:53.180 --> 22:54.020
Yeah, there you go.

22:54.080 --> 22:54.660
That one's good, too.

22:54.880 --> 22:57.580
But now all those jokes have gone out the window.

22:57.580 --> 23:02.060
Yeah, maybe they'll start adding it on PowerBook now, a right-and-a-left-click button.

23:02.680 --> 23:07.080
No, but they would never, never actually make it a right-and-a-left-click distinct buttons,

23:07.140 --> 23:10.000
because that would mean, again, they've been wrong since 1984.

23:10.740 --> 23:11.340
Yeah, that's right.

23:11.440 --> 23:12.020
They probably wouldn't.

23:12.140 --> 23:15.200
They'd probably just add it so that each side, you'd be able to tell which side you

23:15.200 --> 23:15.440
clicked.

23:15.900 --> 23:16.620
But that would be stupid.

23:16.620 --> 23:20.760
They're going to make it so that, like, you can just kind of, it'll telepathically decide

23:20.760 --> 23:25.280
based on just what you're thinking at the moment that you tap, whether or not you wanted

23:25.280 --> 23:26.600
a right-click or a left-click.

23:26.960 --> 23:28.180
No, you don't even have to tap.

23:28.220 --> 23:30.480
You just have to think about tapping, and it'll do it automatically.

23:31.300 --> 23:32.300
Blueimplant.com.

23:32.600 --> 23:32.960
Exactly.

23:33.660 --> 23:34.240
Hoo-wee-sheesh.

23:34.240 --> 23:37.260
So, yeah, so I got a new PC.

23:37.440 --> 23:37.940
It's running Debian.

23:38.340 --> 23:40.040
I finally broke the gigahertz barrier.

23:40.180 --> 23:43.240
I can finally edit BinRev radio on my desktop.

23:43.540 --> 23:46.800
I don't have to whip out my laptop, which was infinitely faster than my old desktop.

23:47.140 --> 23:47.420
Yay.

23:47.760 --> 23:48.720
It's amazing.

23:51.080 --> 23:55.960
Of course, I'm going to have to install Windows tonight on it, so I can, actually, no, I can

23:55.960 --> 23:56.880
just install Audacity.

23:58.280 --> 23:59.740
I'll do Audacity for the show.

24:00.180 --> 24:00.500
Didn't you?

24:01.340 --> 24:05.360
Haven't you always complained bitterly about how badly Audacity handles editing this thing?

24:05.960 --> 24:09.740
Well, I'll just have to grin and bear it and say my work plenty of times.

24:10.100 --> 24:13.720
Of course, also, this was on my old PC, so it could just be that the fact that it was

24:13.720 --> 24:15.780
just really, really, really slow.

24:15.780 --> 24:21.240
For those of you who didn't know, I used to run, for the past five and a half years,

24:22.200 --> 24:25.180
I ran a P3 733, and low.

24:25.360 --> 24:30.360
It was state-of-the-art the time I bought it, but, oh, it's very slow now.

24:31.300 --> 24:33.280
I see all these people coming out with, like, three...

24:33.280 --> 24:33.480
Hmm?

24:34.120 --> 24:37.460
I have a gigahertz app on, and I've been rocking for, like, four years now, four or five.

24:37.640 --> 24:38.820
Actually, like, five years.

24:40.180 --> 24:46.360
Yeah, I just missed the gigahertz train pulling out of the station, and I finally broke the

24:46.360 --> 24:47.080
gigahertz barrier.

24:47.900 --> 24:50.680
Yeah, I had a 750 megahertz processor, and then I upgraded.

24:51.400 --> 24:52.740
I thought I was all lean and everything.

24:52.740 --> 24:55.140
I'm like, whoa, one gigahertz.

24:56.140 --> 25:01.920
Well, considering that I upgraded from a AMD...

25:01.920 --> 25:03.260
Oh, God, I don't even...

25:03.260 --> 25:06.080
I think it was, like, a K6, like, 266.

25:07.000 --> 25:10.780
Yeah, it was, like, moving up from a Pinto to a Rolls-Royce.

25:11.500 --> 25:13.800
I'm pretty sure that's what Decoder had for, like, six years, too.

25:14.300 --> 25:14.600
Yeah.

25:15.300 --> 25:16.780
He had one of those K6s.

25:16.780 --> 25:18.580
Oh, man, they...

25:18.580 --> 25:19.460
I'm sorry, they sucked.

25:20.160 --> 25:23.120
I loved my computer, but, oh, God, it sucked.

25:23.840 --> 25:25.440
Yeah, you kick it wrong, and it explodes.

25:26.300 --> 25:26.560
No.

25:29.440 --> 25:33.360
Open angle bracket slash Pinto joke, close angle bracket.

25:35.120 --> 25:36.760
Ah, who needs this gas tank protected?

25:38.560 --> 25:39.800
Thanks, Ford Motor Company.

25:39.800 --> 25:44.400
So, anyway, let's go on to the main topic tonight.

25:45.300 --> 25:49.220
And since we just brought up Decoder, I figure that's good.

25:51.320 --> 25:56.800
We have intro to freaking tonight, which I think we previously announced.

25:58.020 --> 26:00.700
Strom, I think you're the best person to answer this question.

26:00.820 --> 26:01.500
What is freaking?

26:01.980 --> 26:04.380
Well, freaking is playing with the phone network.

26:04.860 --> 26:05.480
No, it's not.

26:05.480 --> 26:06.300
Phone calls, I know it.

26:06.360 --> 26:06.940
Free phone calls.

26:07.120 --> 26:07.420
Free phone calls.

26:07.420 --> 26:10.980
Free phone calls, red boxing, and beige boxing, yeah.

26:11.280 --> 26:12.560
No, it's beige boxing, that's it.

26:12.760 --> 26:13.460
Yeah, yeah.

26:13.780 --> 26:14.920
Freaking is none of those things.

26:15.000 --> 26:16.060
Oh, yeah, of course, blotto boxing.

26:16.160 --> 26:16.880
We can't forget about that.

26:17.060 --> 26:17.460
Blotto boxing.

26:17.460 --> 26:17.600
No.

26:18.340 --> 26:19.300
I forgot about that.

26:19.320 --> 26:25.060
We'll explain why, for those of you who have no clue what a blotto box is and why it doesn't work, shortly.

26:25.220 --> 26:29.540
But freaking is about playing with the phone network, learning how it works, you know,

26:29.540 --> 26:33.000
learning what happens between you picking up the phone and getting your dial tone.

26:34.720 --> 26:36.500
It's not about making free phone calls.

26:36.500 --> 26:42.320
Free phone calls sometimes happen as a side effect of learning the network, but, you know,

26:42.800 --> 26:47.040
for the most part, it's playing with the network, learning it, knowing it, loving it.

26:48.180 --> 26:54.200
Free phone calls can sometimes be interpreted as a means to an ends, and it's never an ends to a means.

26:54.200 --> 26:57.280
I still think I'm right.

26:57.320 --> 27:00.620
I'm pretty sure it's about free phone calls, and I'm pretty sure Kevin Mitnick told me so.

27:03.220 --> 27:05.920
And Captain Crunch, Steve Laszniak, he also told me.

27:06.780 --> 27:10.420
Oh, no, for Steve Laszniak, it's all about prank calling people.

27:11.240 --> 27:16.340
That's what he used his stuff for, and Captain Crunch is Captain Crunch, and we won't get into that.

27:16.340 --> 27:16.840
Yeah.

27:17.220 --> 27:17.400
Yeah.

27:19.120 --> 27:20.600
Even Tom doesn't want to get into that.

27:23.140 --> 27:28.260
Well, you know, him and Captain Crunch want him to want to hook up and do a TV show or something.

27:29.180 --> 27:30.140
Oh, God, he's crazy.

27:30.420 --> 27:31.560
Don't tell him he lives in Los Angeles.

27:32.160 --> 27:32.860
He does.

27:34.160 --> 27:34.720
No, I know.

27:34.800 --> 27:37.260
Can you tell him that he lives in Los Angeles at DEFCON, Strom?

27:37.800 --> 27:41.660
Well, I think the 310 number on my business card kind of gave that away.

27:42.400 --> 27:43.120
Oh, okay, yeah.

27:43.180 --> 27:45.180
And the P.O. Box address in Los Angeles.

27:45.740 --> 27:47.000
I'm sure he got all excited.

27:47.880 --> 27:48.640
I actually...

27:48.640 --> 27:49.460
He wanted to watch you poop or something.

27:50.800 --> 27:53.680
Yeah, I'm taken, though, so nothing is going to happen.

27:54.080 --> 27:55.600
Captain Crunch is watching you poop.

27:56.100 --> 27:56.860
So, anyway.

27:58.700 --> 28:00.620
So, that's basically...

28:00.620 --> 28:04.740
Freaking is what, for the phone network, is what hacking is to the Internet.

28:04.740 --> 28:07.640
But it's just sitting around and exploring and figuring out stuff out.

28:08.480 --> 28:12.880
And a lot of people think it's about, you know, free phone calls and blotto boxing and all that wonderful stuff.

28:13.100 --> 28:19.020
And, no, it's just basically sitting there and figuring everything out about it and learning some fun things in the process.

28:21.220 --> 28:22.800
So, freaking started?

28:23.000 --> 28:24.280
When did freaking start?

28:24.360 --> 28:25.660
I mean, you really can't say when.

28:26.340 --> 28:27.740
Freaking started...

28:27.740 --> 28:35.860
Yeah, well, I mean, the very, very, very early origins of the phone network were that, you know, manual exchanges were key.

28:36.560 --> 28:38.300
You know, there was no such thing as automatic switching.

28:38.800 --> 28:43.800
And, originally, you know, teenage boys have been used for telegraph operators forever.

28:44.220 --> 28:47.500
And so, it seemed a natural progression to make them into telephone operators.

28:47.640 --> 28:50.700
But they were not well suited to the job.

28:50.820 --> 28:53.960
They were, you know, they behaved pretty much like phone freaks behave today.

28:53.960 --> 28:56.400
So, they were replaced with, you know, women instead.

28:57.200 --> 28:58.440
Well, they were a little more rude.

28:58.560 --> 29:06.960
What they used to do is basically, for those of you who don't know, the old ways, before you had all these fun buttons and touch tones and dials,

29:07.260 --> 29:11.680
you would basically pick up your phone, an operator would come on the other line and say,

29:11.940 --> 29:13.380
what number are you dialing, please?

29:13.540 --> 29:16.620
And you'd say, you know, 555-1234.

29:16.620 --> 29:18.520
And they would place your phone call.

29:19.620 --> 29:20.480
And the problem.

29:20.480 --> 29:21.240
That's 368-ass breath.

29:21.580 --> 29:21.900
Whatever.

29:22.140 --> 29:24.500
The, uh, whatever.

29:25.100 --> 29:30.220
The, and what the problem with these boys is they soon discovered is they would, you know,

29:30.280 --> 29:35.980
you'd wait there and you'd pick up your phone and no one would answer, which is, which is bad because they don't make money off of that.

29:36.940 --> 29:40.000
Or you'd give them a number and say, no, I don't want to do that.

29:40.000 --> 29:46.960
So, basically, that's what they did and they ripped out all the guys that were, fired them all and they put women in charge.

29:47.440 --> 29:48.600
Which was a big thing back then.

29:48.660 --> 29:52.680
Because this was, we're talking about, like, the 1900s, turn of the century, thereabouts.

29:53.160 --> 29:53.320
Yeah.

29:53.500 --> 29:54.580
No, before that.

29:55.300 --> 29:57.480
Late, uh, late 90s century.

29:57.680 --> 29:58.840
Yeah, 1890s, 1880s.

29:59.900 --> 30:03.400
18, uh, 1890s was really more when it started to take off.

30:03.480 --> 30:04.120
That's what I was figuring.

30:04.240 --> 30:04.460
Anyway.

30:04.820 --> 30:05.180
Yeah.

30:05.620 --> 30:07.900
Yeah, you can't trace it back to the 1880s, though.

30:07.900 --> 30:08.380
Mm-hmm.

30:08.780 --> 30:10.840
So, yeah, Freaking is well over 100 years old.

30:11.180 --> 30:19.280
But at some point, uh, the telephone exchange, the manual telephone exchanges began to be replaced with automatic telephone exchanges.

30:19.640 --> 30:27.340
And with equipment handling phone calls instead of people, you know, equipment is more fun to play with sometimes than people are.

30:27.860 --> 30:33.420
So, you get these people who start playing with the equipment and figuring out the interesting things it can do.

30:34.340 --> 30:37.020
And so that's the kind of the genesis of Freaking.

30:37.020 --> 30:52.860
Although, the real fascination with the network began in the 1960s with the introduction of direct dialable, sorry, direct distance dialing, DDD, which, for those of you who don't know, before direct distance dialing, if you wanted to make a call outside of your local area, you would have to dial operator, tell her the number.

30:53.000 --> 30:55.040
She would pick up a trunk to the long distance operator.

30:55.340 --> 31:03.020
The long distance operator would have to place your call through manually to the inward operator in the remote city who would place your call through.

31:03.020 --> 31:05.920
And then they would ring you back when the call was set up.

31:06.800 --> 31:08.300
So, it was a very intensive thing.

31:09.060 --> 31:14.380
And DDD was the system which allowed you to dial 1 plus the area code plus the number.

31:14.520 --> 31:22.200
Or in some cities which had, you know, heavily lots of crossbar 5, mainly like San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York, dialing 1 plus was unheard of.

31:22.600 --> 31:24.640
You would just dial, you know, the area code plus the number.

31:25.060 --> 31:25.820
But I'm digressing.

31:25.820 --> 31:39.040
So, with the advent of the direct distance dialing and the totally automatic telephone system, the phone freaks began to start playing with this and to kind of start noticing fun things you could do.

31:40.160 --> 31:43.040
And that's the genesis of freaking.

31:44.820 --> 31:46.560
I really wouldn't call it a genesis.

31:46.660 --> 31:48.460
That's more of when it really started to take off.

31:48.460 --> 31:55.160
Yeah, let me say, yeah, that's the genesis of freaking in the modern sense of it being something close to recognizable.

31:56.100 --> 32:00.160
Yes, what most people consider freaking, that would be the genesis of it.

32:00.480 --> 32:10.200
It's basically, you know, some guy going out to a pay phone, dialing an 800 number, and then taking out this little box out of his pocket, and then routing phone calls across the globe.

32:10.200 --> 32:13.060
And that's what it all is.

32:14.040 --> 32:21.320
This really started about 1960 or so, when people actually just said, yeah, I would say probably 1962.

32:23.500 --> 32:30.940
1964 is when the bell system actually, what it was is the way they used to dial your phone number is you would dial your long distance call,

32:30.940 --> 32:42.940
at which point the equipment would interpret that, and then it would do special types of tones that would route your number across the various forms of switching equipment that was existing in the network.

32:43.620 --> 32:50.960
And this was fine and dandy, and people found out that, you know, you could record these tones and splice them together and actually make them route to different places.

32:52.260 --> 32:55.400
But they never actually figured out what these tones were.

32:55.400 --> 33:02.560
Sure, so the bell system accidentally one day published all of these master tones in a bell system technical journal article.

33:02.560 --> 33:03.660
I don't think it was so accidental.

33:03.880 --> 33:08.980
It was just more, you know, unknowing, not knowing that this could be kind of dangerous.

33:10.060 --> 33:11.240
True, I guess you could say that.

33:11.800 --> 33:11.960
Yeah.

33:12.660 --> 33:15.280
Things don't accidentally get published in the bell system technical journal.

33:15.820 --> 33:16.480
True, true.

33:17.380 --> 33:21.600
And so when people actually figured out, well, hey, these are these master tones.

33:21.600 --> 33:28.520
Basically, I can make a little box that will play all these tones, and I can convince all the equipment that I am trying to route my call different ways,

33:29.000 --> 33:31.700
which was, of course, kind of illegal and not actually good.

33:31.860 --> 33:37.860
But it just expanded into this giant exploration of the phone system, which really is what freaking is.

33:39.020 --> 33:42.220
Of course, one of the side effects and benefits of this was you got free phone calls.

33:42.320 --> 33:48.740
Basically, I could make it look like I was dialing a 800 number, and in reality, I'm routing over to southern Indonesia,

33:48.740 --> 33:50.620
which was kind of expensive back then.

33:50.620 --> 33:53.180
But in reality, I'm not paying for anything.

33:53.320 --> 33:56.160
According to my local billing equipment, I am dialing an 800 number.

33:57.920 --> 34:03.300
So what this little box used to be called was the blue box, and that is the big thing.

34:03.440 --> 34:05.160
This is the creme de la creme.

34:05.340 --> 34:07.760
Everyone hears about the blue box, and they just go, ooh.

34:08.880 --> 34:11.300
Because it was just this little thing you could have in your palm of your hand,

34:11.320 --> 34:14.640
and basically you can control all of these switching equipment,

34:14.640 --> 34:19.280
which essentially were giant computers back when computers weren't even around.

34:20.620 --> 34:22.160
and just control all of the switching equipment.

34:23.440 --> 34:25.660
And it was just this wonderful thing.

34:26.320 --> 34:26.680
Ah!

34:29.680 --> 34:31.140
Now, are you making fun of me?

34:32.080 --> 34:33.760
That was the best sound effect I've ever heard.

34:34.540 --> 34:35.400
I like the, ah!

34:35.400 --> 34:40.840
So that's what freaking is.

34:40.880 --> 34:41.960
And freaking has progressed from there.

34:42.060 --> 34:46.660
I mean, back in the 1980s, they stopped using all these systems that were susceptible to blue boxing.

34:46.900 --> 34:49.660
Here's an example of multi-frequency tones, by the way.

34:49.660 --> 34:58.420
And that's basically what you would hear when you would dial across a long-distance network,

34:58.540 --> 35:02.640
because these switching things would talk back to each other with these tones,

35:02.820 --> 35:04.220
and that's how you control them.

35:05.180 --> 35:08.140
So around the 1980s, these things started to get retired,

35:08.300 --> 35:12.920
and they moved over to digital systems that were actually completely computer-controlled,

35:12.920 --> 35:17.200
and weren't susceptible to blue boxing, and you freaking just kind of...

35:17.200 --> 35:19.980
Well, that's not so much, that's more a misnomer,

35:20.060 --> 35:24.380
because the 1ESS, the 1AESS, are both computer-controlled analog switches,

35:24.520 --> 35:26.800
and they're totally susceptible to blue boxing.

35:26.800 --> 35:30.600
The real key is not so much the switches themselves, but the signaling used between them.

35:30.600 --> 35:35.540
And what happened was, this was all in-band signaling.

35:35.760 --> 35:44.260
The number was sent down the tones down the trunk that you were going to be talking on.

35:44.880 --> 35:48.560
And instead, what the new system that replaced it, called Signaling System 7,

35:48.700 --> 35:50.580
does, it sends everything totally out of band.

35:52.080 --> 35:53.720
So in reality, you can't hear everything.

35:53.840 --> 35:57.960
It's just more of a packet flying across the network, which you don't hear or see.

35:58.420 --> 35:59.680
Yeah, which you don't know anything about.

35:59.680 --> 36:01.700
And in fact, it does make call setup times quicker,

36:01.820 --> 36:05.520
because, you know, the old network, if you dialed a New York number from Los Angeles,

36:05.680 --> 36:09.560
you would tend to have to wait maybe 10, 15 seconds for your call to go through,

36:09.660 --> 36:11.420
whereas now it starts ringing practically immediately.

36:14.280 --> 36:17.120
So anyway, so as these systems died out, and the trunking died,

36:17.220 --> 36:20.460
and these systems that used this in-band signaling didn't work,

36:21.380 --> 36:24.700
I don't know, I guess you could say in the early 90s, freaking kind of hit a low point.

36:24.700 --> 36:31.620
As the old system started to go, and the new system, really, you couldn't do much fun things with it,

36:31.680 --> 36:34.820
or people, nothing that you could do on the old system.

36:34.900 --> 36:37.720
There were certain things you could do, and people still played around with it,

36:37.800 --> 36:40.220
but not as it was back in the olden days.

36:40.220 --> 36:45.200
And nowadays, all the freaks are using VoIP, because VoIP is cool,

36:45.360 --> 36:51.400
and VoIP is basically, you get to be your own phone company, as we specified in our asterisk presentation.

36:51.800 --> 36:54.600
And of course, the really cool thing about VoIP is the fact that, you know,

36:54.620 --> 36:59.320
what makes it cool is not just that you're able to route calls over the Internet to the PSTN,

36:59.320 --> 37:04.460
but you have a lot more control over what actually gets sent out to your carrier,

37:04.960 --> 37:07.060
rather than you just signaling, I want this number.

37:07.580 --> 37:13.820
You get to signal, set up a call, so this number, from this number, over this network, and so on and so on.

37:14.400 --> 37:18.660
Yeah, have my caller ID set to this, and all kinds of fun stuff.

37:18.780 --> 37:23.800
And actually, more than a couple of the, I guess you could say the original freaking clan,

37:24.380 --> 37:29.040
are very interested in VoIP, and just are amazed at the things you can do today.

37:30.240 --> 37:31.380
We know a couple of people.

37:32.180 --> 37:32.680
Mark Brunet.

37:32.680 --> 37:34.780
One of which actually is being Captain Crunch.

37:35.160 --> 37:37.220
But yeah, Mark Brunet is into VoIP, but I wasn't aware of that.

37:37.360 --> 37:38.980
Oh yeah, yeah, Mark Brunet plays with VoIP.

37:39.520 --> 37:40.760
Bill New York plays with VoIP.

37:44.680 --> 37:47.000
Evan Dorbell plays with VoIP a little bit, though.

37:47.520 --> 37:48.780
Not so much.

37:50.900 --> 37:52.280
I was unaware of this.

37:52.380 --> 37:54.100
See, all these people are playing with it.

37:56.800 --> 37:57.680
Everyone's doing it.

37:57.680 --> 38:04.920
So, basically, you see all of these boxes out there right now, and you hear all these text

38:04.920 --> 38:11.120
files from 1980 about Blotto boxing, and beige boxing, and red boxing, blue boxing.

38:11.600 --> 38:12.460
There are really...

38:12.460 --> 38:15.240
We cover what a blue box is.

38:16.040 --> 38:22.620
But basically, what are the three boxes that are workable in today's system, Strom?

38:22.620 --> 38:24.620
Well, the three real boxes...

38:24.620 --> 38:24.920
You can go rant about your...

38:24.920 --> 38:25.220
Yes.

38:25.640 --> 38:26.580
The three real boxes.

38:26.580 --> 38:28.680
I'm going to drop into my rant about the three real boxes.

38:28.780 --> 38:32.560
The only three real boxes are the black box, the red box, and the blue box.

38:33.100 --> 38:37.560
The black box was a resistor trick that you could use on the old network, because when

38:37.560 --> 38:41.680
you hear the phone ringing on the old network, it's actually connected up to the subscriber's

38:41.680 --> 38:42.620
phone line that you're dialing.

38:42.620 --> 38:47.720
So, if you put a resistor in series, you can drop the voltage on the line enough to trip

38:47.720 --> 38:51.900
the ring and talk on the circuit, but not drop it enough to pass answer supervision all

38:51.900 --> 38:52.420
the way back.

38:52.940 --> 38:55.840
And so, the call never answers, and the call never gets spilled.

38:57.280 --> 38:59.000
We've already gone over what a blue box is.

38:59.060 --> 39:03.080
It's a method of sending tones down the line and controlling the old network, which doesn't

39:03.080 --> 39:03.900
work much anymore.

39:03.900 --> 39:12.000
And then, there's red boxing, which is generating coin tones and pretending to be depositing coins

39:12.000 --> 39:15.960
into a phone, a payphone, rather than actually depositing them.

39:16.560 --> 39:26.340
The rest are either works of fiction or simple electronic tricks you can do at home or things

39:26.340 --> 39:26.980
of that nature.

39:27.100 --> 39:32.520
There's, for example, or they're even just totally nonsensical.

39:32.520 --> 39:36.620
Like, the beige box, which I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for claiming this isn't

39:36.620 --> 39:41.760
a real box, but all it is, it's a telephone with alligator clips on the end of it.

39:42.160 --> 39:44.060
It's a homemade lineman's butt set.

39:44.720 --> 39:52.340
And, I mean, if you're going to consider going to Radio Shack, getting two alligator clips and

39:52.340 --> 39:59.440
a soldering iron to be a complicated electronics project on the level of making a blue box or

39:59.440 --> 40:02.780
a red box, you know, it, it, no.

40:03.080 --> 40:07.740
The black box is simple, but it took advantage of, of actually understanding how the network

40:07.740 --> 40:08.240
worked.

40:08.480 --> 40:12.520
Whereas with a, a beige box, it's just a matter of, you know, oh, here's contact points,

40:12.820 --> 40:13.820
clip, dial tone.

40:14.380 --> 40:20.400
So, really, if you're going to do it right, go to Graybar or eBay and get yourself a real

40:20.400 --> 40:22.560
butt set, not a beige box.

40:22.560 --> 40:23.300
But I'm digressing.

40:24.380 --> 40:25.020
There's also...

40:25.020 --> 40:29.120
Well, the beige box really came around back in previously to 1984 when you couldn't get

40:29.120 --> 40:29.740
these online.

40:29.840 --> 40:31.560
You can't go to eBay, you can't go to Graybar.

40:32.040 --> 40:33.940
Yeah, no, you could, you could always go to Graybar.

40:35.520 --> 40:37.660
Well, you couldn't actually buy it, could you?

40:37.800 --> 40:38.860
Oh, yes, of course you could.

40:40.120 --> 40:41.000
I was unaware of that.

40:41.040 --> 40:44.680
I always thought it was the Bell System property and you could basically either steal it out of

40:44.680 --> 40:46.200
a truck or make a beige box.

40:46.200 --> 40:51.920
Well, yeah, Western Electric had, uh, had their own, uh, had their own butt sets, but

40:51.920 --> 40:59.800
Automatic Electric and, uh, Automatic Electric, Stromberg, Carlson, um, and ITT, I'm pretty

40:59.800 --> 41:00.900
sure, made them as well.

41:01.160 --> 41:03.120
And this was the stuff that you could buy at Graybar.

41:03.840 --> 41:05.140
So you've always been able...

41:05.140 --> 41:05.660
I stand corrected.

41:06.140 --> 41:08.880
You've always been able, as far as I know, to buy the stuff at Graybar.

41:09.760 --> 41:13.260
There's also, um, what other crazy boxes are there?

41:13.720 --> 41:15.340
There's the Blotto box.

41:15.340 --> 41:16.180
Let's get into this.

41:16.620 --> 41:23.060
This, if you look this up, this is a totally outrageous claim that you can plug your phone

41:23.060 --> 41:29.080
line into the AC power and some versions have you plugging it, you know, putting it next

41:29.080 --> 41:33.760
to a, uh, plugging it to a generator or something and blowing out, depending on which version

41:33.760 --> 41:41.140
of the file you read, your switch, your entire, uh, local area or your entire area code.

41:41.140 --> 41:46.980
Look, this is total bunk because there are relays.

41:46.980 --> 41:54.700
At the point where your copper loop hits the central office, there are relays and circuit

41:54.700 --> 42:00.240
breakers that are there to detect things like a cross with power lines or a strike by lightning

42:00.240 --> 42:06.200
or other things of that nature and cut your phone line off from doing any damage to the

42:06.200 --> 42:06.540
switch.

42:07.240 --> 42:10.240
So if you do this, all that you're going to do is you're going to blow out your own phone

42:10.240 --> 42:14.500
line, possibly damage all the phones on your line, and, uh, be pretty much stuck until

42:14.500 --> 42:20.640
they've, uh, sheepishly call repair service and say, hey, my, my phone doesn't work.

42:20.840 --> 42:21.760
What happened to it?

42:21.920 --> 42:23.160
Uh, I don't know.

42:23.260 --> 42:24.920
Pray they don't ask too many questions.

42:26.000 --> 42:26.400
Exactly.

42:27.740 --> 42:32.120
And I, I saw something online where it was, they, they, they called it a bottle box, but

42:32.120 --> 42:35.420
basically what it was to reverse, you basically go outside someone's house and you hook it

42:35.420 --> 42:40.500
up to their phone line and you fried their phone service and basically any type of phone

42:40.500 --> 42:45.280
or computer or modem that was on their network and that's something that theoretically could

42:45.280 --> 42:48.640
work, but yeah, although, yeah, that's, that's not freaking you.

42:48.640 --> 42:50.160
That's being a stupid asshole teenager.

42:50.740 --> 42:51.400
Yes, exactly.

42:52.740 --> 42:56.600
That's tons of stupid asshole teenagers go, hey, wait a second.

42:59.120 --> 43:05.520
So yeah, so those are the boxes and let's state for the record that the only two boxes that

43:05.520 --> 43:09.840
really work right now are the beige box, which we already went into.

43:09.840 --> 43:14.120
And the red box, and I know more than a few people are going to say, hey, there's a third

43:14.120 --> 43:18.040
box that works, but we're not going to cover that because it only works in two places in

43:18.040 --> 43:19.780
the United States and we're not going to talk about that.

43:20.720 --> 43:21.840
The red boxings.

43:22.040 --> 43:25.320
I wish I could more, learn more about that though, because I mean, there's so much stuff

43:25.320 --> 43:29.020
you could probably do, like these other crazy countries, third world countries.

43:29.800 --> 43:29.900
So.

43:31.900 --> 43:33.060
Yeah, there's lots of stuff.

43:33.300 --> 43:37.460
If, if, a good reference, we'll just sort of get this right here right now, is Default

43:37.460 --> 43:41.380
Radio, which was a radio show, I don't know, when did it run?

43:41.440 --> 43:51.180
It ran from like, 2003, September 2003 to about 2004, late or so.

43:52.220 --> 43:53.960
I'm not sure when it exactly ran.

43:54.020 --> 43:55.280
It's DefaultRadio.com.

43:55.280 --> 44:00.320
It's a really good show and they, and they do some crazy stuff on there that still works

44:00.320 --> 44:02.860
today and that, that's a great example of modern day freaking.

44:03.400 --> 44:06.580
But even that stuff wasn't like, that in depth.

44:06.820 --> 44:07.760
I know there's got to be more.

44:08.440 --> 44:09.840
Oh, there's always more.

44:10.040 --> 44:11.460
There's always more stuff about what you could do.

44:11.840 --> 44:15.460
You could do stuff with like, Free World Dial-Up or something in England, because you can dial

44:15.460 --> 44:19.680
the 0800 numbers, but then I think that got shut down.

44:20.320 --> 44:20.720
I don't know.

44:21.420 --> 44:22.840
I've just heard so much different stuff.

44:24.780 --> 44:27.360
No, I mean, it's basically what it is, is you've got to use your judgment.

44:27.500 --> 44:28.640
But there's always stuff out there.

44:29.040 --> 44:30.040
There's always stuff to learn.

44:31.720 --> 44:32.580
That's what it is.

44:33.240 --> 44:36.340
That's what freaking is all about, much like there's always stuff to learn with computers.

44:37.420 --> 44:38.160
Hackers find them.

44:38.160 --> 44:44.180
Well, I will state for the record that red boxing still works.

44:45.100 --> 44:50.880
What you have to do, actually, I've got a, I've got a series of recordings that I need

44:50.880 --> 44:56.080
to piece together and put up, but I've got a series of recordings of how red boxing works.

44:57.660 --> 45:01.180
Although in the recordings, I'll state for the record that I'm actually depositing real

45:01.180 --> 45:03.440
coins, but you can imagine I'm pressing buttons on the red box.

45:04.400 --> 45:04.560
Yes.

45:04.560 --> 45:07.920
What it basically is, is the way the red box still works, is that there's something

45:07.920 --> 45:12.200
called ACTS, which stands for Automatic Coin Toll System.

45:12.960 --> 45:17.460
Automated Coin Toll System, or Automated Coin Toll Signaling, although technically, actually,

45:17.600 --> 45:22.640
ACTS is no longer the correct term for it, because ACTS was something that ran off TSPS.

45:23.700 --> 45:24.020
And TSPS...

45:24.020 --> 45:24.360
Oh, really?

45:24.440 --> 45:24.940
What is it called?

45:25.120 --> 45:25.600
It doesn't run around.

45:25.940 --> 45:30.040
These days, it's just Nortel Top's Traffic Operator Position Service, or system.

45:30.580 --> 45:32.320
Yeah, Traffic Operator Position System.

45:32.320 --> 45:39.180
So, what this is, pretty much, on local toll calls, when you place a call through, it'll

45:39.180 --> 45:44.800
do a coin refund, first of all, if you deposit the minimum amount as if it were a local call,

45:45.440 --> 45:48.480
and then it'll switch you through to the tandem, to the TOPS tandem.

45:49.500 --> 45:54.800
And the Automated TOPS tandem will prompt you to deposit however many cents for the first

45:54.800 --> 45:55.300
three minutes.

45:56.560 --> 45:57.940
So, as you...

45:57.940 --> 45:58.680
Actually, you know what?

45:58.680 --> 45:59.240
I should do this.

45:59.300 --> 46:01.660
I should bring my...

46:01.660 --> 46:05.560
I should come in on my pay phone, and I can just demonstrate this with real coins.

46:05.640 --> 46:06.200
Just a second.

46:07.000 --> 46:07.400
All right.

46:10.460 --> 46:13.860
So, what it is, is basically, the system is now...

46:13.860 --> 46:19.920
When it says, you know, please deposit X amount of coins, it waits for the phone to signal back

46:19.920 --> 46:20.940
to it that it's got coins.

46:20.940 --> 46:26.220
And the way it does this is little dual-tone multi-frequency pulses, as Strom will demonstrate

46:26.220 --> 46:26.780
right now.

46:26.780 --> 46:27.980
Here's five cents.

46:30.320 --> 46:31.480
Here's ten cents.

46:33.020 --> 46:34.720
And here's twenty-five cents.

46:36.440 --> 46:37.000
Yes.

46:37.560 --> 46:41.520
And what this is, is that the system waits for that, and it understands those tones as

46:41.520 --> 46:43.240
being five, ten, and twenty-five cents.

46:43.240 --> 46:47.100
And when it reads these tones back, it assumes that you deposit coins.

46:47.260 --> 46:52.460
Now, what redboxing is, is you don't deposit coins, you just play these sound files back to

46:52.460 --> 46:52.600
it.

46:53.020 --> 46:54.920
Sound clips, tapes, however you want to do it.

46:54.920 --> 46:59.060
And it thinks you've deposited coins, but you haven't.

47:00.020 --> 47:00.220
Hmm?

47:00.980 --> 47:01.880
You should use your mouth.

47:02.540 --> 47:03.300
Yeah, you can use your mouth.

47:03.340 --> 47:03.940
You can be, like, lucky.

47:04.220 --> 47:06.460
Has he actually ever done that to an ACTS system?

47:07.920 --> 47:09.260
It's on Doug TV.

47:09.340 --> 47:09.880
You've never seen it.

47:10.380 --> 47:10.880
Oh, no, no.

47:10.880 --> 47:12.020
He just did that to the test set.

47:12.140 --> 47:12.800
He never actually...

47:12.800 --> 47:15.040
Yeah, he never actually did it...

47:15.040 --> 47:18.100
No, I'm pretty sure he's done it, like, on a conference or something, and he's screwing

47:18.100 --> 47:18.320
around.

47:19.600 --> 47:20.820
Well, you never know.

47:20.920 --> 47:22.020
You could actually convince that.

47:22.020 --> 47:25.180
And you can actually say, hey, you know, I was just speaking to it.

47:25.240 --> 47:28.260
I didn't actually know I was doing something illegal.

47:30.400 --> 47:32.340
But anyway, that's what redboxing is.

47:32.400 --> 47:35.560
Now, what you used to be able to do is you used to be able to do that nationwide through

47:35.560 --> 47:36.600
AT&T system.

47:36.780 --> 47:40.660
However, in the late 90s, AT&T discontinued that service.

47:40.660 --> 47:44.340
And so everyone claimed, oh, no, redboxing is dead.

47:44.400 --> 47:45.380
It'll never work anymore.

47:45.500 --> 47:46.100
Blah, blah, blah, blah.

47:46.640 --> 47:50.440
But what they completely forget is that now it just works.

47:50.940 --> 47:51.780
It wasn't the late 90s.

47:51.780 --> 47:52.580
It was 2002.

47:53.160 --> 47:53.560
2002?

47:53.940 --> 47:54.660
Well, it was that late.

47:54.840 --> 47:56.200
That was before I was on the scene.

47:56.700 --> 47:56.980
Mm-hmm.

47:57.400 --> 47:59.480
So I wasn't paying attention at that point.

47:59.980 --> 48:00.240
Mm-hmm.

48:00.240 --> 48:07.960
So what it is now that everyone forgot that, hey, AT&T is not doing it anymore.

48:08.060 --> 48:08.800
I can't call nationwide.

48:09.240 --> 48:14.600
But, you know, a lot of local providers, much like Verizon, still use it for local calls.

48:15.040 --> 48:15.280
Mm-hmm.

48:15.280 --> 48:20.900
Which are local calls outside of your local calling area but inside your local access transport

48:20.900 --> 48:26.800
area, which is basically a kind of a line of demarcation that was set up after the Bell

48:26.800 --> 48:27.680
system divesture.

48:27.680 --> 48:30.300
And if you really want to do some research on that, look at Wikipedia.

48:30.840 --> 48:31.080
Mm-hmm.

48:31.400 --> 48:31.600
Yeah.

48:31.680 --> 48:32.360
Look at Wikipedia.

48:32.860 --> 48:37.480
It'll explain it all, how many there are, what they're called, and all kinds of stuff.

48:38.480 --> 48:40.940
And so basically redboxing still works.

48:41.020 --> 48:43.960
It just does not work for nationwide calls anymore.

48:44.980 --> 48:46.980
And it's just heavily dependent on the system.

48:47.060 --> 48:52.700
And a lot of people are actually moving away from ACTS or whatever they call it because it

48:52.700 --> 48:54.100
costs a lot more money to run.

48:54.100 --> 48:58.420
And Verizon is all moving to all cocots anyway, which is very sad.

48:59.500 --> 49:02.820
But since we're on the topic of payphones, let's go talk about payphones.

49:02.940 --> 49:04.100
There are two types of payphones.

49:04.360 --> 49:07.180
There are regular payphones, which are standard.

49:07.180 --> 49:10.200
There's actually technically three types of payphones.

49:11.200 --> 49:11.480
Okay.

49:11.600 --> 49:15.380
So there's cocots, which are very much where the smarts are in the phone.

49:15.520 --> 49:18.200
And they're more or less hooked up to a standard phone line.

49:18.240 --> 49:22.960
And they do all the coin signaling inside its electronic brain, which is located in the

49:22.960 --> 49:23.180
phone.

49:23.360 --> 49:24.860
Well, actually, there's really no signaling.

49:24.980 --> 49:26.380
It's all internally computed.

49:26.920 --> 49:27.040
Yeah.

49:27.100 --> 49:29.000
I mean, signaling is the wrong word.

49:29.080 --> 49:29.300
Yes.

49:29.360 --> 49:29.660
Correct.

49:29.660 --> 49:36.020
And then there's the standard sort of local exchange carrier payphones, which are basically

49:36.020 --> 49:37.340
run by your local exchange carrier.

49:37.460 --> 49:40.000
For example, mine in Massachusetts would be run by Verizon.

49:40.600 --> 49:45.760
Here in Southern California, it's either SBC or Verizon, depending on which part of Los

49:45.760 --> 49:47.340
Angeles you happen to be in at the time.

49:48.460 --> 49:49.580
Natus, what would it be for you?

49:49.800 --> 49:51.540
I know what it would be, but let's just say it anyway.

49:52.540 --> 49:52.940
Verizon.

49:52.940 --> 49:55.180
If you're in the Midwest, it'll be Quest.

49:56.440 --> 50:05.240
And if you're in the Mountain region or like the Northwest region, which I think is like

50:05.240 --> 50:11.620
the Minneapolis, the Minnesota area and around there, or the Pacific Northwest, it'll be Quest.

50:12.080 --> 50:15.800
If you're in California or the Midwest, it'll be SBC.

50:17.320 --> 50:18.420
And if you're in...

50:18.420 --> 50:19.880
If you're down in the Southeast, it'll be Bell South.

50:20.060 --> 50:20.680
Yep, Bell South.

50:20.680 --> 50:23.820
Bell South ripped out all their payphones, as far as I know.

50:23.840 --> 50:26.060
Yes, which is very sad, and we really won't touch on that.

50:26.720 --> 50:31.080
So, we already covered Cocots, and now the second time, that would be your...

50:31.080 --> 50:33.180
I don't know what the actual official term is.

50:33.280 --> 50:35.740
It's kind of like CO-controlled coin signaling.

50:36.120 --> 50:37.620
Yeah, CO-controlled coin signaling.

50:37.780 --> 50:41.340
I like the term either dumb phone or single-slot phone.

50:41.940 --> 50:42.660
Yeah, single-slot.

50:42.700 --> 50:43.160
That's what it is.

50:43.480 --> 50:48.180
And those are basically the phones run by your local company, and they're set up to run.

50:48.180 --> 50:53.140
And all the smarts are actually sitting on the telephone switch back at the central office.

50:53.440 --> 50:54.440
And it's...

50:54.440 --> 50:56.440
When you deposit a coin, it does a little test.

50:57.100 --> 50:59.780
It basically sends a 120, 110, 120.

51:00.280 --> 51:00.900
Well, then, okay.

51:01.000 --> 51:08.640
What happens is, when you make a local call, when you want to make a local call, you deposit the coins at the dial tone.

51:08.640 --> 51:13.760
And when you deposit the minimum deposit, they fall through the totalizer and trip a switch.

51:14.020 --> 51:14.560
They trip a relay.

51:14.560 --> 51:15.740
Well, what's a totalizer?

51:15.880 --> 51:16.780
The totalizer...

51:16.780 --> 51:16.980
Okay.

51:17.060 --> 51:21.000
The totalizer is the device inside the phone that counts up the coins, basically.

51:21.360 --> 51:26.640
It counts up the minimum deposit and generates those tones for...

51:27.160 --> 51:30.900
Generates the tones for when you're...

51:30.900 --> 51:32.260
When you're in the ACTS mode.

51:32.260 --> 51:33.460
Yeah, when you're in the ACTS mode.

51:34.300 --> 51:40.300
But, so, when you're making a local call, you deposit the minimum deposit, and then you dial the number.

51:40.420 --> 51:45.300
Once you finish dialing the number, the local central office performs a ground test on the phone

51:45.300 --> 51:49.400
and checks to see whether or not that switch has been tripped.

51:49.500 --> 51:54.060
And if it's been tripped, then there will be a ground on the line when it does that test.

51:54.360 --> 51:56.580
If it hasn't tripped, there will be no ground on the line.

51:56.580 --> 52:01.300
So, and what happens is it's the tip lead that gets shorted to ground.

52:01.880 --> 52:06.700
So, if the tip lead is shorted to ground upon completion of dialing, then the local call goes through.

52:07.000 --> 52:12.560
If the tip lead is not shorted to ground upon completion of dialing, then the local call does not go through.

52:12.640 --> 52:15.900
And you get the error recording saying, you need to deposit the minimum deposit.

52:16.060 --> 52:17.260
Please hang up and try again.

52:20.140 --> 52:22.000
And that's how local calls work.

52:23.260 --> 52:25.740
Now, what's this third type of phone you were talking about?

52:25.740 --> 52:29.420
Ah, there is a third type of phone, which is the hybrid phone.

52:30.240 --> 52:30.780
Ah, true.

52:30.920 --> 52:31.480
Yes, okay.

52:32.000 --> 52:39.240
Which acts like a dumb phone for local calls, but acts like a co-call for toll calls.

52:41.040 --> 52:44.500
Did I actually come up with the term hybrid, or did someone else actually come up with that?

52:44.680 --> 52:47.680
I forget who came up with the term hybrid.

52:48.960 --> 52:55.120
I never actually remember it actually being in use before I started calling that on yet another payphone list.

52:55.120 --> 52:57.800
Which is my website, of course, as always, and you should check that out.

52:58.200 --> 52:59.080
Yapple.org.

52:59.560 --> 52:59.840
Yeah.

53:00.640 --> 53:01.900
I'm going to call it Orgy.

53:02.420 --> 53:02.780
Orgy.

53:03.780 --> 53:04.140
Orgy.

53:04.140 --> 53:10.760
So, anyway, that's the third type of phone, and basically it's this combination there, too, like I said.

53:10.960 --> 53:21.960
And it's pretty simple to understand, and essentially, I always take, it always takes all of the bad parts of a, being a dumb phone,

53:22.040 --> 53:26.460
and all the bad parts of being a cocot, and just combines them all into one nice little package for you.

53:26.460 --> 53:30.120
With a charming yellow handset.

53:30.720 --> 53:30.960
Yes.

53:31.140 --> 53:31.320
Yeah.

53:31.520 --> 53:32.380
They're disgusting.

53:32.540 --> 53:33.240
I can't stand them.

53:33.900 --> 53:34.360
But, anyway.

53:34.480 --> 53:35.960
Nice phone with one stick on it.

53:37.020 --> 53:38.400
Now, why are payphones cool?

53:38.520 --> 53:44.380
Payphones are cool because it's basically your own little wonderful way, completely anonymous, to get onto the phone system.

53:44.760 --> 53:46.760
You can do everything you want on there.

53:46.900 --> 53:48.780
Of course, you always have to pay the little toll to get in.

53:48.780 --> 53:57.660
But once you do that, it's all yours, and you can fiddle with it to your heart's content, and more than enough, you just, no one will notice and complain about you.

53:57.720 --> 53:58.880
You can just sit there and do it.

54:00.020 --> 54:02.160
Because everyone uses payphones, for the most part.

54:02.660 --> 54:11.060
Of course, now that cell phones are becoming more prevalent, of course, they all just sort of sit there and collect dust, which always makes me sad.

54:11.060 --> 54:23.540
But the payphones are cool because just, they work, and you can play with them, and you don't have to worry about tying up your own phone line, or you don't have to worry about, oh, my God, someone's going to trace me back and find out about it.

54:24.200 --> 54:25.280
Plus, you can call them.

54:26.180 --> 54:26.440
Yep.

54:26.780 --> 54:27.780
Well, for the most part.

54:27.860 --> 54:29.360
You can't call them up in the Northeast.

54:30.260 --> 54:32.520
In Los Angeles, you can call quite a few of them.

54:32.900 --> 54:34.800
And that's another fun thing about it.

54:35.240 --> 54:39.660
Part of the reason why I started the end of the payphone list is you can sit there and call them and talk to random people.

54:39.660 --> 54:44.480
And ask them all kinds of strange questions, and they'll never know who's calling because they don't have caller ID.

54:46.100 --> 54:47.400
What are you wearing?

54:49.880 --> 54:51.620
Probably they're fully closed, I would hope.

54:54.320 --> 54:55.120
Well, you never know.

54:55.140 --> 54:57.080
Maybe not in the seedier parts of Los Angeles, yeah.

54:58.100 --> 54:59.920
What color underwear are you wearing?

55:01.960 --> 55:04.260
So, moving right along.

55:04.260 --> 55:05.640
Do I look good in this phone?

55:05.640 --> 55:09.740
That was good.

55:13.020 --> 55:19.320
So, we should talk about local exchange carriers because I'm not sure that people know about local exchange carriers.

55:19.340 --> 55:19.920
Follow you, Strom.

55:20.480 --> 55:20.980
All right.

55:20.980 --> 55:30.140
So, when we say that the payphone is operated by the local exchange carrier, we mean the incumbent local exchange carrier for the area, which is the ILEC.

55:30.900 --> 55:39.420
So, what the ILEC is, if you look – if you go back, you know, 20 years, there was one phone company that's going to be the area.

55:39.420 --> 55:40.000
Come on, Strom.

55:40.060 --> 55:42.100
Let's go set up the Wayback Machine to 1984.

55:42.100 --> 55:50.580
So, let me just get up my 1984 disco mix here and – oh, forget it.

55:50.580 --> 55:58.720
So, anyway, if you go back to about 1984 or so, there was one phone company that serves your area.

55:58.800 --> 55:59.200
Just one.

55:59.580 --> 56:01.520
None of this competitive phone company nonsense.

56:01.640 --> 56:02.540
Just one phone company.

56:03.220 --> 56:08.160
And that phone company is the ILEC, the incumbent local exchange carrier for your area.

56:08.160 --> 56:26.980
In many cases, this will be – in most of the continental U.S., this will be either Verizon, SBC, Quest, Bell South, or Sprint.

56:27.300 --> 56:28.100
Of course, Sprint.

56:29.300 --> 56:33.580
There's also – so, I'll get into this in a second.

56:33.900 --> 56:36.180
There are different types of ILECs.

56:36.180 --> 56:39.680
There are regional Bell operating companies, and there are independent companies.

56:40.660 --> 56:47.520
So, the RBOX, the regional Bell companies, are Verizon, SBC, Quest, and Bell South.

56:48.820 --> 56:57.160
The independent companies are Sprint, CenturyTel, and what are the other major independent companies?

57:00.040 --> 57:00.940
I'm not sure.

57:01.020 --> 57:06.160
There's also a handful of – not major independents, but a lot of places where you start moving out into the boonies.

57:06.180 --> 57:08.000
There's small mom-and-pops.

57:08.860 --> 57:09.120
Oh, yeah.

57:09.160 --> 57:11.220
TDS Telecom is one leased around here.

57:11.460 --> 57:13.640
They've bought up a lot of small mom-and-pops in New Hampshire.

57:14.180 --> 57:16.180
Yeah, they did that here, too, in New England.

57:16.340 --> 57:18.280
They did that in a lot of places in New England, I think.

57:18.840 --> 57:25.140
There's an independent company in Northern California somewhere called the Volcano Telephone Company.

57:25.140 --> 57:31.380
Yeah, their CEO in Mount St. Helens just sort of got destroyed a while back.

57:31.480 --> 57:33.400
I said California off Washington State.

57:33.900 --> 57:34.600
Oh, close enough.

57:35.560 --> 57:37.800
They could have long-distance providers or something.

57:37.800 --> 57:48.260
And Verizon is actually an interesting one because Verizon is a combination of Bell Atlantic, which was a Bell company, and GTE, which was the largest independent company.

57:49.120 --> 57:52.260
So some parts of Verizon are GTE and some parts are Bell Atlantic.

57:53.020 --> 57:54.740
And they're still tariffed differently.

57:55.000 --> 57:55.800
The rates are different.

57:56.420 --> 57:58.000
The switching equipment tends to be different.

57:58.000 --> 58:04.560
So it's going to be a while before you see no discernible difference from which Verizon area you're in.

58:06.060 --> 58:10.640
I wish they had GTD-5s out here in former Bell Atlantic territory.

58:11.140 --> 58:13.060
Yeah, GTD-5s are fun to play with.

58:13.520 --> 58:15.820
Yeah, you're closer to GTD-5s than we are.

58:15.920 --> 58:19.680
I mean, you just have to zip right over to cross the border, I think.

58:20.920 --> 58:21.320
Who, me?

58:21.820 --> 58:22.160
Yeah.

58:23.240 --> 58:26.160
I mean, in New York City, you can be pretty close, too.

58:26.160 --> 58:27.740
You just have to go down to Pennsylvania.

58:28.960 --> 58:29.980
Do they have GTD-5s there?

58:30.360 --> 58:31.400
I believe so, don't they?

58:31.500 --> 58:32.740
Yeah, there's GTD in Pennsylvania.

58:32.920 --> 58:36.720
In fact, the GTE payphone that I have is from Pennsylvania.

58:37.960 --> 58:39.760
Hershey, Pennsylvania, if I remember correctly.

58:39.820 --> 58:43.340
Yeah, the number is 717-533.

58:44.380 --> 58:45.980
And so that's a Hershey prefix.

58:46.300 --> 58:49.720
What's funny is I called the number on the Dymo label on the payphone.

58:50.320 --> 58:52.680
And the person answered and said, oh, is this a payphone?

58:52.820 --> 58:53.380
Yeah, it is.

58:53.600 --> 58:54.540
Where is this payphone?

58:54.540 --> 58:56.020
Oh, it's in the Hershey chocolate plant.

58:57.020 --> 58:58.340
Does it have a nice brown handset?

58:59.120 --> 59:00.280
Unfortunately, no, it doesn't.

59:00.360 --> 59:03.640
It came with a black one, and I replaced it with an automatic electric handset.

59:05.360 --> 59:06.880
Dude, he's ricing out his phone.

59:08.560 --> 59:09.720
More like restoring it.

59:09.720 --> 59:19.480
So Verizon, the GTD-5 is just a different type of switching system, which is basically the computer that controls all your content.

59:19.740 --> 59:20.680
It controls all your telephones.

59:20.680 --> 59:21.880
It's the thing that gives you dial tone, basically.

59:21.960 --> 59:22.380
Exactly.

59:22.600 --> 59:23.000
Thank you.

59:23.540 --> 59:25.740
The thing that gives you dial tone and puts your calls through.

59:27.020 --> 59:28.500
So there are...

59:28.500 --> 59:30.000
Those are the major ILECs.

59:30.440 --> 59:32.420
Now, what other LECs are there?

59:32.520 --> 59:33.220
There's a CLEC.

59:33.300 --> 59:34.280
Now, what's a CLEC from?

59:34.420 --> 59:36.520
A CLEC is a competitive local exchange carrier.

59:36.640 --> 59:49.320
These are the, like, the PacWest Telecom and the cable company and the AT&T local and what else is there?

59:50.280 --> 59:52.520
I'm just naming off CLEC because I know we're local here.

59:52.840 --> 59:54.920
But actually, a lot of companies will...

59:54.920 --> 59:55.220
RCN.

59:55.740 --> 59:56.480
Yeah, RCN.

59:56.540 --> 01:00:02.560
A lot of companies will, in fact, our box are running CLEC service elsewhere.

01:00:02.560 --> 01:00:08.440
Like, for example, in Las Vegas, which is firmly Sprint territory and has always been independent phone company territory,

01:00:08.920 --> 01:00:12.640
there's now an SBC switch, and you can get SBC local service in Vegas.

01:00:13.540 --> 01:00:16.240
I believe I can get SBC service in Massachusetts.

01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:17.080
Wow.

01:00:17.600 --> 01:00:17.880
Yeah.

01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:22.580
I know I can get SBC DSL, and I'm pretty sure they have CLEC services out here.

01:00:23.600 --> 01:00:25.080
It's all special.

01:00:25.240 --> 01:00:28.400
I don't actually get to be on an SBC switch like I would be in Las Vegas.

01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:32.060
But still, I would find it highly amusing if I actually went to SBC.

01:00:33.340 --> 01:00:35.400
Because, you know, it's all going there anyway.

01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:36.720
They're eating up everybody.

01:00:37.740 --> 01:00:40.640
What was Blake's map, 2015 telecom maps?

01:00:41.120 --> 01:00:42.320
The whole country's SBC?

01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:51.040
And so there's also a type of phone company known as an inter-exchange carrier.

01:00:51.200 --> 01:00:52.720
These are your long-distance companies.

01:00:52.720 --> 01:00:58.400
AT&T, MCI, we're really dating the show here because those aren't going to exist in a year.

01:00:59.200 --> 01:00:59.680
Yeah, true.

01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:03.740
AT&T is getting bought up by SBC, and MCI is getting bought up by Verizon.

01:01:05.240 --> 01:01:06.060
Sprint's an IXC.

01:01:06.580 --> 01:01:08.020
Yeah, Sprint's also an IXC.

01:01:09.020 --> 01:01:10.240
Sprint's an interesting story, though.

01:01:10.240 --> 01:01:19.220
So the story of Sprint, in a nutshell, is Sprint is an amalgam of United Telephone and Central Telephone companies,

01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:20.320
the local exchange carriers.

01:01:20.900 --> 01:01:29.160
And then they bought from GTE a long-distance company which had been started actually by Southern Pacific Railroad called Sprint.

01:01:29.660 --> 01:01:33.080
Sprint actually stands for Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Telecommunications.

01:01:33.080 --> 01:01:42.400
And so United Telephone bought Central Telephone and then bought Sprint and changed the company name to Sprint.

01:01:43.180 --> 01:01:52.360
Now, with Sprint buying Nextel, what's actually kind of funny is Sprint is now going to divest itself of its local telephone operation.

01:01:53.720 --> 01:02:01.340
So the Sprint local stuff is going to either spin off independently or get eaten up by SBC or something.

01:02:01.340 --> 01:02:04.100
They're turning into a cell phone company, basically.

01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:07.140
Yeah, they're turning into purely long-distance and mobile phones.

01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:08.660
That's kind of sad.

01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:10.020
I'll go buy Sprint local.

01:02:10.640 --> 01:02:18.440
If the CEO is Sprint and listening, I place my dollar for $20, and I probably have some change in my pocket.

01:02:18.640 --> 01:02:20.520
So maybe like $20, $50 or so.

01:02:21.180 --> 01:02:25.260
I'll throw an additional $25 and a pink Princess touchtone phone.

01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:28.520
I want a pink Princess touchtone phone.

01:02:28.660 --> 01:02:29.540
Oh, it's a beautiful phone.

01:02:29.980 --> 01:02:30.680
Yeah, I can imagine.

01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:42.120
But so – and the other inter-exchange carriers, before we get too distracted, are Global Crossing and – who else is there?

01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:46.960
There's – Quest, of course.

01:02:47.040 --> 01:02:47.540
MCI.

01:02:47.820 --> 01:02:48.580
Of course, Quest.

01:02:48.680 --> 01:02:49.140
Quest, yes.

01:02:49.160 --> 01:02:50.280
Yeah, I already talked about MCI.

01:02:50.520 --> 01:02:50.760
Yeah.

01:02:51.300 --> 01:03:00.220
Quest is – started off as an inter-exchange carrier, actually, and they bought up US West for their local phone operation.

01:03:01.220 --> 01:03:05.740
So Quest has also an inter-exchange carrier side and a local exchange carrier side.

01:03:06.700 --> 01:03:08.220
Well, Verizon does too, though, right?

01:03:08.560 --> 01:03:11.720
Verizon actually, at this point, doesn't have their own inter-exchange network.

01:03:11.720 --> 01:03:16.080
They just resell other people's service and call it Verizon Long Distance.

01:03:17.600 --> 01:03:18.880
That's why they're buying MCI.

01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:20.340
I believe they're using Global Crossing.

01:03:21.060 --> 01:03:21.460
Are they?

01:03:21.560 --> 01:03:21.800
Are they?

01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:22.560
I think so.

01:03:22.600 --> 01:03:23.920
I know they're not using AT&T.

01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:27.520
I know SBC Long Distance, at least in California, is AT&T.

01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:28.760
Hmm.

01:03:29.060 --> 01:03:32.220
Which is kind of ironic, because SBC is now buying AT&T.

01:03:32.640 --> 01:03:34.980
Yeah, actually, AT&T is an IXC now.

01:03:35.940 --> 01:03:37.200
Always has been an IXC.

01:03:37.600 --> 01:03:38.860
Yeah, I don't think we mentioned them, did we?

01:03:39.080 --> 01:03:40.100
I mentioned them way at the beginning.

01:03:40.640 --> 01:03:41.300
Oh, I don't know.

01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:42.280
We just sort of went on.

01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:42.660
What's the other one?

01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:44.060
Level 3 is one, is that?

01:03:44.640 --> 01:03:45.380
Oh, yeah, Level 3.

01:03:45.380 --> 01:03:48.300
Oh, yeah, Level 3, I think there's more data than voice, though, although.

01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:50.700
Yeah, Level 3, let's call that.

01:03:51.200 --> 01:03:56.640
Well, no, let – yeah, well, they do do voice, and actually I can go in front of Harrison Ave

01:03:56.640 --> 01:04:00.580
switching station and see a license plate that says level – not license plate, a manhole

01:04:00.580 --> 01:04:04.560
cover that says Level 3.com, and I was like, wow, we are not in Kansas anymore.

01:04:08.180 --> 01:04:14.820
So, anyway, what are some of the fun things one can do on the network?

01:04:15.120 --> 01:04:20.200
You can hand-scan, and basically what hand-scanning is, it's kind of boring, we'll go for you.

01:04:20.720 --> 01:04:25.040
I don't think I was – I think there was something else I wanted to explain about the

01:04:25.040 --> 01:04:28.020
C-like versus I-like versus Arbok versus I-X-E thing.

01:04:28.740 --> 01:04:29.180
Oh, okay.

01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.300
You know, I can't remember anymore.

01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:37.100
I'm sorry.

01:04:37.200 --> 01:04:37.880
Okay, well, you lose.

01:04:38.700 --> 01:04:39.460
What did you say, Natus?

01:04:40.180 --> 01:04:40.840
Brain fart?

01:04:41.420 --> 01:04:41.760
Yeah.

01:04:42.860 --> 01:04:43.220
Damn.

01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:50.120
So, one of the tried-and-true freaking methods is something called hand-scanning.

01:04:50.720 --> 01:04:53.320
And what hand-scanning is, it's kind of boring.

01:04:54.020 --> 01:04:57.380
Basically, you sit there, and you pick out some phone numbers you want to dial, and you

01:04:57.380 --> 01:04:59.380
dial them, and you see what's on the other end.

01:05:00.780 --> 01:05:02.320
And don't tell the listeners that it's boring.

01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:03.420
Yeah, that's boring.

01:05:03.680 --> 01:05:04.580
It is boring.

01:05:04.640 --> 01:05:05.660
I can't stand doing it.

01:05:05.740 --> 01:05:06.780
I do not do it.

01:05:06.780 --> 01:05:12.080
I occasionally dial phone numbers in random and hope to get intercepts and see what they

01:05:12.080 --> 01:05:12.540
sound like.

01:05:12.780 --> 01:05:17.640
But what an intercept is, for those of you who don't know, is the little error message

01:05:17.640 --> 01:05:21.260
you get, like, you know, your phone number you have called is not in service at this time.

01:05:21.260 --> 01:05:24.300
Let me pull up an example of an intercept message here.

01:05:24.720 --> 01:05:25.060
Okay.

01:05:25.880 --> 01:05:27.540
If I remember what the number is.

01:05:27.900 --> 01:05:29.620
508-995-9972.

01:05:30.120 --> 01:05:30.660
Oh, of course.

01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:34.780
310-454-9999.

01:05:34.780 --> 01:05:39.420
We're sorry.

01:05:40.160 --> 01:05:41.760
All circuits are busy now.

01:05:42.980 --> 01:05:44.780
Please try your call again later.

01:05:44.780 --> 01:05:50.240
And that's one example.

01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:53.320
Basically, there's all kinds of different error messages you can get.

01:05:53.780 --> 01:05:57.200
Some of the more interesting error messages that I found, well, I haven't found them.

01:05:57.240 --> 01:06:01.240
I actually picked them up from a text file from Decoder, are the AT&T error messages.

01:06:01.460 --> 01:06:05.340
And you can get all kinds of fun stuff, like, oh, due to the hurricane in the area you were

01:06:05.340 --> 01:06:07.520
calling, your call cannot be completed as dialed.

01:06:07.520 --> 01:06:13.340
And there's just all kinds of fun and interesting things that people think of and people have

01:06:13.340 --> 01:06:14.640
to think of just, you know.

01:06:15.740 --> 01:06:17.660
There's all kinds of stuff you can find in hand scanning, though.

01:06:17.700 --> 01:06:18.880
It's not just intercepts and everything.

01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:19.680
Yeah, just intercepts.

01:06:20.020 --> 01:06:21.120
What else do you find out?

01:06:21.220 --> 01:06:24.620
Some of you guys think it's boring, because that's, like, one of the coolest things to me

01:06:24.620 --> 01:06:25.560
was always hand scanning.

01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:27.840
I usually just hand scan all the time.

01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:30.620
I mean, Decoder would, like, talk about what we found.

01:06:38.940 --> 01:06:40.440
Was that the Mexico one?

01:06:40.600 --> 01:06:43.040
Yeah, the codes to Mexico changed from New York City.

01:06:43.740 --> 01:06:43.860
Oh.

01:06:45.100 --> 01:06:47.820
So, okay, well, why do you think hand scanning is so interesting?

01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:48.800
I'm not knocking it.

01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:50.980
I am saying if it floats your boat, go right ahead.

01:06:51.060 --> 01:06:52.060
But I just can't.

01:06:52.080 --> 01:06:52.820
I can't stand it.

01:06:54.340 --> 01:06:55.500
I'm very ADD.

01:06:57.840 --> 01:07:02.180
It's not, well, yeah, it does kind of suck, like, actually typing in the numbers

01:07:02.180 --> 01:07:04.800
and over and over and over, but it's just, like, I don't know.

01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:08.220
It's just one of, like, the most purest, well, I can't say purest things.

01:07:08.300 --> 01:07:08.600
I don't know.

01:07:08.640 --> 01:07:12.320
I just always found cool stuff scanning, and Decoder would always have a million things

01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:15.380
that he would find, and he'd be like, oh, damn, I need to do some scans,

01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:16.740
so I'll find cool stuff, too.

01:07:17.240 --> 01:07:20.360
Well, honestly, there are tons of cool stuff you can find on there.

01:07:20.900 --> 01:07:21.140
Yeah.

01:07:21.320 --> 01:07:23.440
And hand scanning is the only way you're going to find it.

01:07:23.540 --> 01:07:26.600
Personally, I just, I can't, it drives me nuts.

01:07:26.600 --> 01:07:30.640
It's, I mean, I get, I get, it's cool for about, like, the first 20 or 30 numbers,

01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:33.260
but after that, I just go, ugh.

01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:38.340
Yeah, in the same way, I get really, really bored after 20 or 30 numbers.

01:07:39.180 --> 01:07:41.720
I get pumped up, and I want to finish it, and I want to move on.

01:07:42.580 --> 01:07:44.120
Speaking of which, I actually have some numbers.

01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:49.140
For those of you who are listening to the episode, go to the freaking forum on binrev.com,

01:07:49.180 --> 01:07:52.120
and I'm going to post some numbers tonight that lead to some interesting intercepts,

01:07:52.120 --> 01:07:58.080
and I actually need to record them, because I think the switch is actually going out of service.

01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:00.000
It's an Ericsson AXE 10.

01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:01.240
Ooh.

01:08:01.240 --> 01:08:05.440
That's been in service, it's been in service since, like, 1986, 87.

01:08:06.160 --> 01:08:06.840
Eh, digital.

01:08:07.060 --> 01:08:07.360
Boring.

01:08:07.720 --> 01:08:08.740
Oh, digital and boring.

01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:11.620
I mean, it's not analog anymore, but still, it's pretty cool.

01:08:11.700 --> 01:08:14.980
I think the tone plant's actually older than that.

01:08:16.220 --> 01:08:18.180
A digital switch with a separate tone plant?

01:08:18.180 --> 01:08:21.620
Not tone plant, oh, what am I, the intercept thing.

01:08:22.180 --> 01:08:23.980
Oh, the announcement machine.

01:08:24.080 --> 01:08:25.160
Announcement circuit, thank you.

01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:32.840
So, one of the ways you can actually automate hand scanning is war dialing,

01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:35.620
and what war dialing is, it's kind of a cousin of hand scanning,

01:08:36.200 --> 01:08:41.660
is basically you set up your modem to dial and dial and dial and try to find modem carriers.

01:08:43.040 --> 01:08:44.480
Natus, do you want to talk about war dialing?

01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:46.120
Okay.

01:08:46.260 --> 01:08:47.340
You've been sitting there silent.

01:08:48.180 --> 01:08:48.820
All right.

01:08:50.660 --> 01:08:51.100
Yeah.

01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:56.480
So, war dialing has, it's, all right, war dialing and hand scanning have two different purposes, basically.

01:08:57.200 --> 01:09:04.360
Like, you said, war dialing is just, it dials everything, either at random or sequentially,

01:09:04.620 --> 01:09:06.800
and it looks for computers, basically.

01:09:07.540 --> 01:09:10.320
I mean, you can set it to look for tones or anything like that,

01:09:10.360 --> 01:09:11.980
but I think it's kind of pointless to do that.

01:09:11.980 --> 01:09:19.500
And basically, the only thing I ever war dial for is modems, and that's pretty much all anybody I ever talked to that war dial still looks for.

01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:23.480
Well, what other stuff can you find when you're war dialing?

01:09:23.480 --> 01:09:36.200
I mean, it says, I don't know much about tone lock, specifically, but you can set it to look for, like, loops and weird things like that.

01:09:36.760 --> 01:09:36.940
Hmm.

01:09:36.940 --> 01:09:43.040
Uh, tone lock is a war dialing program for, like, DOS or something, if I'm not mistaken?

01:09:43.840 --> 01:09:44.120
Yeah.

01:09:45.040 --> 01:09:48.100
It's for DOS, and it works, it still works in Windows and everything.

01:09:49.400 --> 01:09:52.020
It's ancient, ancient software, but still good stuff.

01:09:52.760 --> 01:09:53.280
Yeah, it is.

01:09:53.280 --> 01:09:57.480
I forget, was the rapper named after the software, or was it the other way around?

01:09:58.700 --> 01:09:59.180
Tone lock?

01:09:59.440 --> 01:09:59.720
Yeah.

01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:01.740
Uh, I don't know.

01:10:01.740 --> 01:10:04.300
Isn't there a rapper, like, tone, tone look or something like that?

01:10:05.080 --> 01:10:06.300
Yes, yes, yes.

01:10:06.400 --> 01:10:07.860
Yeah, it must have been after the program was named after him.

01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:10.280
I'm pretty sure he was before.

01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:14.180
I don't know, that'd be pretty gangster if a rapper was named after a war dial program.

01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:17.520
That's, I prefer that explanation.

01:10:18.740 --> 01:10:22.780
Dude, I, if seriously, if someone did that, I'd buy it, like, you know, DJ Blue Box.

01:10:22.780 --> 01:10:25.180
I'd be like, yeah, man, I don't care if your stuff sucks.

01:10:25.240 --> 01:10:27.660
I'm just buying it because you have a cool name.

01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:31.440
MC A-Nack and DJ Ringback hanging out in phone cans.

01:10:31.700 --> 01:10:36.520
Not there, you came up with that.

01:10:39.220 --> 01:10:40.420
Yeah, that's pretty neat.

01:10:41.300 --> 01:10:43.020
Okay, so yeah, I don't know, back to war dialing.

01:10:46.280 --> 01:10:49.720
I don't know, just, it's basically to find other modems.

01:10:49.720 --> 01:10:58.560
And the cool thing I always got excited about when I was starting to get into all this was that I'd be like, oh, I might find the switch.

01:10:58.840 --> 01:11:01.260
I might find the CO switch, a dial-up to it, you know.

01:11:01.760 --> 01:11:04.500
I might find internal phone company test equipment.

01:11:05.020 --> 01:11:07.540
And so that's why I was scanning, war dialing.

01:11:07.540 --> 01:11:17.760
And for those of you who want to see war dialing in action or a Hollywood version of it, you should watch War Games, which is a movie with Matthew Broderick.

01:11:17.860 --> 01:11:21.880
And if you even consider yourself a geek, you need to watch this film.

01:11:22.380 --> 01:11:25.500
I should note a very, very young Matthew Broderick.

01:11:25.500 --> 01:11:38.920
I know one person that considers himself a geek that hasn't seen it, and when he admitted this to our 2600 group, we basically all went and were going to actually sit him down and make him watch it.

01:11:39.120 --> 01:11:40.360
Did you all gasp in unison?

01:11:41.400 --> 01:11:42.120
Yes, exactly.

01:11:42.260 --> 01:11:43.720
It was kind of funny.

01:11:45.940 --> 01:11:48.940
We all just sat there and went, oh my god, you've never seen it?

01:11:48.940 --> 01:11:56.500
Well, I hope you won't find any government crap like that when you're a war dialing.

01:11:56.500 --> 01:11:56.680
Yeah.

01:11:57.180 --> 01:11:57.580
Nowadays.

01:11:58.820 --> 01:12:02.540
Yeah, the same rule with war dialing goes with every other thing.

01:12:02.600 --> 01:12:03.560
Just keep your nose clean.

01:12:04.320 --> 01:12:08.280
Just because you find something that's interesting doesn't mean you should go and poke and prod at it.

01:12:10.180 --> 01:12:16.200
Again, BinRev Radio does not support illegal, you know, stuff and all that kind of crap.

01:12:16.200 --> 01:12:22.160
Legal disclaimer, BinRev Radio does not support illegal, um, stuff and all that, uh, stuff, yeah.

01:12:22.560 --> 01:12:22.840
No.

01:12:23.200 --> 01:12:23.400
Yeah.

01:12:24.920 --> 01:12:29.400
One thing a lot of people don't know about now is that you can use VoIP to war dial.

01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:31.240
Really?

01:12:31.340 --> 01:12:31.600
Did you know that?

01:12:33.240 --> 01:12:34.480
I was aware of it.

01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:37.300
I'm not, I haven't really done, done anything, but I've been aware of it.

01:12:37.420 --> 01:12:41.280
I mean, like, I heard, like, you know, you couldn't really do that because the speeds suck.

01:12:42.400 --> 01:12:43.340
Yeah, that's the thing.

01:12:43.340 --> 01:12:48.340
But if you set your modem at, uh, 1200 baud, then it works.

01:12:49.180 --> 01:12:50.480
And there's actually a text file.

01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:57.620
It's not on oldschoolfreak.com yet, but I've been talking to the author of Vox, and I'm going to try and get him to revise it a little bit.

01:12:57.860 --> 01:13:01.060
Because I don't want to just steal files off Freaks and Geeks, basically.

01:13:01.180 --> 01:13:02.440
But it's on Freaks and Geeks.

01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:04.980
And it's on the text file section.

01:13:05.080 --> 01:13:07.640
And I tried to go to it earlier, but it doesn't work anymore.

01:13:07.640 --> 01:13:11.920
So you have to put the URL into Google and get the cache.

01:13:12.360 --> 01:13:13.280
But I'm looking at it right now.

01:13:14.080 --> 01:13:15.240
And it was written last year.

01:13:15.820 --> 01:13:16.760
It was written in 2004.

01:13:17.540 --> 01:13:21.140
And it just tells you how to configure your modem for VoIP.

01:13:21.400 --> 01:13:31.440
Basically, you lower the baud rate, and you set the DTMF tones to, uh, so there's more of a pause between each one.

01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:32.420
So it doesn't misdial.

01:13:32.420 --> 01:13:38.260
So, and it works good, though, because all, like, even faster modems now still allow you to connect at slower speeds.

01:13:39.780 --> 01:13:40.000
Oh, yeah.

01:13:40.060 --> 01:13:41.600
Everything's backwards compatible with modems.

01:13:41.720 --> 01:13:42.380
So that I knew.

01:13:43.320 --> 01:13:45.580
So, I mean, doesn't this cost a lot of money now?

01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:46.620
No.

01:13:46.800 --> 01:13:52.380
I mean, it's cheap for VoIP, but you still have to, like, say, like, two cents a minute or something, right?

01:13:53.660 --> 01:13:57.100
Oh, well, if you have goiax.com, that's a new site.

01:13:57.360 --> 01:13:58.300
Who found that, anyways?

01:13:58.420 --> 01:13:58.920
That was me.

01:13:59.160 --> 01:13:59.760
That was you?

01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:02.920
Well, Mark Brené told me about it, and I brought it to BinRev, so.

01:14:03.420 --> 01:14:03.920
Okay, yeah.

01:14:04.020 --> 01:14:11.240
So Strom found Go IX, and right now they're offering free, basically free unlimited calling in the U.S.

01:14:11.240 --> 01:14:12.800
Yeah, it's, in fact, totally anonymous.

01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:14.740
You don't even have to give them a real e-mail address.

01:14:14.860 --> 01:14:18.760
You just punch in any random thing, and they give you a number.

01:14:19.480 --> 01:14:20.780
Oh, yeah, it's scary like that.

01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:22.140
I just set mine up last night.

01:14:23.040 --> 01:14:23.420
Oh, yeah.

01:14:23.580 --> 01:14:27.880
The caller ID comes up, what is it, 202-256-0000?

01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:30.320
202-256-0000, I think, yeah.

01:14:30.660 --> 01:14:30.920
Yeah.

01:14:31.820 --> 01:14:34.020
So it's pretty damn anonymous.

01:14:34.720 --> 01:14:37.300
And, I mean, you can get these VoIP providers.

01:14:37.440 --> 01:14:46.320
You can get, like, Vonage or something and hook this up, but it's kind of sketchy because it says in their terms of service that they don't allow war dialing and stuff like that.

01:14:46.740 --> 01:14:47.040
Mm-hmm.

01:14:47.040 --> 01:14:50.160
So I know somebody who's gotten in trouble.

01:14:51.060 --> 01:14:51.500
Oops.

01:14:52.860 --> 01:14:53.640
We're sorry.

01:14:54.400 --> 01:14:54.880
Oh, well.

01:14:56.140 --> 01:14:56.880
We're sorry.

01:14:57.100 --> 01:15:04.420
But usually if you're war dialing from a POP line and you have unlimited long distance or something like that, then you're all good.

01:15:04.420 --> 01:15:13.240
Or if you have, if you war dial in your local exchange, because there's, you know, they have a certain amount that you can pay tops for your local calling.

01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:15.540
It's like a, I don't know, what's it called, Strom?

01:15:16.840 --> 01:15:17.160
Sorry?

01:15:17.360 --> 01:15:18.160
Flat rate service?

01:15:19.380 --> 01:15:19.900
I don't know.

01:15:19.940 --> 01:15:20.580
They have, like, a cap.

01:15:20.660 --> 01:15:21.180
Yeah, that's what it is.

01:15:21.240 --> 01:15:21.580
It's a cap.

01:15:21.680 --> 01:15:23.580
They cap your rate.

01:15:23.800 --> 01:15:25.300
Around here they do that, anyways, Verizon.

01:15:26.260 --> 01:15:26.800
What is it?

01:15:26.860 --> 01:15:27.500
Explain it again to me.

01:15:28.760 --> 01:15:32.080
So you can only pay so much for your local calling.

01:15:32.080 --> 01:15:33.700
Oh, Quest has this.

01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:36.180
It's basically what it is, is you can...

01:15:36.180 --> 01:15:36.800
Well, Verizon has it.

01:15:37.120 --> 01:15:37.760
Verizon has it?

01:15:37.760 --> 01:15:38.480
I didn't know Verizon has it.

01:15:38.480 --> 01:15:38.780
Yeah, we haven't.

01:15:38.780 --> 01:15:47.320
The only one that I knew was Quest was, well, what it is, is you can use, you pay, like, you know, per diem or whatever you want to say.

01:15:47.520 --> 01:15:50.700
You pay for your phone calls up to about, you reach $20.

01:15:51.120 --> 01:15:54.440
And anything beyond $20 is free, is virtually free.

01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:55.780
You just pay them the $20.

01:15:56.340 --> 01:16:02.020
But, for example, if you go below $20 for some reason, you only pay them how much you spent.

01:16:02.860 --> 01:16:03.100
Yeah.

01:16:03.780 --> 01:16:04.940
I know they have a term for it.

01:16:04.980 --> 01:16:06.100
Verizon has a certain term for it.

01:16:06.120 --> 01:16:06.440
I don't know.

01:16:06.620 --> 01:16:06.880
Yeah.

01:16:07.320 --> 01:16:09.680
Local calling cap or limit or something.

01:16:09.980 --> 01:16:11.320
That sounds about right.

01:16:11.500 --> 01:16:14.100
No such thing seems to exist in Southern California.

01:16:14.880 --> 01:16:15.400
Oh, that's right.

01:16:15.400 --> 01:16:17.820
I know Verizon did it, but I know Quest did.

01:16:18.580 --> 01:16:21.540
Yeah, because I know I have it here on my Verizon landline.

01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:23.940
And I just war dial a lot of local exchanges.

01:16:23.940 --> 01:16:30.420
So, yeah, GoIX, though, is the end.

01:16:31.140 --> 01:16:34.480
I think a lot of people should start checking it out while it's free.

01:16:34.860 --> 01:16:36.380
Well, I'm going to start checking it out.

01:16:36.480 --> 01:16:42.280
I actually have a modem that is sitting around doing nothing, and I'm going to have to plug it in, give it a try.

01:16:42.280 --> 01:16:46.200
In fact, Natus has been talking to us on Goeeks the whole time.

01:16:47.660 --> 01:16:48.120
Oh, really?

01:16:48.260 --> 01:16:48.780
Oh, he has?

01:16:49.180 --> 01:16:50.280
He has, yes.

01:16:50.860 --> 01:16:51.360
Oh, wow.

01:16:51.400 --> 01:16:52.280
That sounds pretty good.

01:16:52.500 --> 01:16:53.000
For free.

01:16:53.680 --> 01:16:53.920
Yeah.

01:16:54.140 --> 01:16:54.820
That's pretty elite.

01:16:54.860 --> 01:16:55.520
I didn't even know that.

01:16:55.520 --> 01:16:58.360
Didn't check your caller ID window?

01:16:59.220 --> 01:17:00.080
I don't have caller ID.

01:17:00.740 --> 01:17:01.020
Oh.

01:17:01.220 --> 01:17:02.060
Oh, all right.

01:17:02.220 --> 01:17:02.860
Thank God.

01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:03.700
I'm not the only one.

01:17:04.360 --> 01:17:05.800
What kind of freaks are you?

01:17:06.720 --> 01:17:06.920
Yeah.

01:17:07.300 --> 01:17:09.820
I'm a freak to lose with parents who don't believe in caller ID.

01:17:10.060 --> 01:17:13.080
But come join the modern age, you know, real phones.

01:17:14.160 --> 01:17:14.440
Yeah.

01:17:15.920 --> 01:17:23.280
And actually, I don't have caller ID set up on my HEA either, mainly because I never actually programmed it back in after I reflashed it.

01:17:23.280 --> 01:17:23.680
But anyway.

01:17:26.000 --> 01:17:28.940
I've been really wanting to use Goeeks and do some scans.

01:17:29.060 --> 01:17:34.620
I'd really like to do some, like, New York City scans, some Manhattan scans, or some Los Angeles ones.

01:17:34.820 --> 01:17:37.880
Because, I mean, people haven't been war dialing and putting out results lately.

01:17:38.360 --> 01:17:38.800
Yeah.

01:17:39.460 --> 01:17:43.360
Well, one of my friends had a wonderful idea.

01:17:44.520 --> 01:17:48.120
And I think Natus might know this story, but I'm not sure how many other people do.

01:17:48.660 --> 01:17:51.780
He had access to a T1 for a weekend.

01:17:51.780 --> 01:17:56.640
And he was like, oh, well, geez, I have a T1.

01:17:57.320 --> 01:17:59.260
I had – he had his asterisk box.

01:17:59.740 --> 01:18:03.800
Well, geez, I can just sort of, you know, war dial away here and just hook some modems up to it.

01:18:03.800 --> 01:18:14.460
So basically, in a matter of, you know, about an hour or so, he, like, war dialed an insane amount of numbers.

01:18:14.660 --> 01:18:18.260
And he got a phone call from his provider saying, what are you doing?

01:18:18.260 --> 01:18:27.640
You're just essentially dialing all these numbers, and we have – you're only listening for, like, you know, 10 seconds in most cases or something.

01:18:28.620 --> 01:18:32.680
And he said, oh, I'm doing tests with my system.

01:18:33.100 --> 01:18:34.120
Oh, okay.

01:18:34.800 --> 01:18:36.440
And they just sort of let him go with that.

01:18:36.480 --> 01:18:38.020
And he said, oh, I guess they're watching me.

01:18:38.060 --> 01:18:38.900
I shouldn't do that.

01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:40.460
They didn't really care, though.

01:18:40.460 --> 01:18:49.500
I don't think – he was basically saying that he didn't want to chance it because it wasn't his or he was using it for business purposes.

01:18:49.660 --> 01:18:50.300
I forget which one.

01:18:51.020 --> 01:18:55.260
There was a reason why he stopped, and I knew it was – I said, oh, okay, that's a decent reason.

01:18:55.900 --> 01:18:57.940
Yeah, it's pretty crazy, though, 24 channels at once.

01:18:58.420 --> 01:18:58.740
Yeah.

01:19:00.020 --> 01:19:01.640
God, I can do some crazy stuff with that.

01:19:02.140 --> 01:19:03.820
I mean, you could do that with VoIP, though.

01:19:04.300 --> 01:19:05.900
Yeah, if you've got enough bandwidth to throw at it.

01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:07.280
Well, not 24, but, I mean, you could do a lot.

01:19:07.280 --> 01:19:12.360
Well, no, if you've got enough bandwidth to throw at it, hell, if you're sitting there on a DS3, you could do, you know, 240.

01:19:13.300 --> 01:19:14.900
Okay, here's a question.

01:19:15.220 --> 01:19:17.740
I mean, I talked to Natus about this earlier today.

01:19:18.420 --> 01:19:23.420
Does GoEaks support multiple phone calls at once?

01:19:23.600 --> 01:19:24.560
Let's find out.

01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:27.060
Oh, I might get dropped.

01:19:27.520 --> 01:19:30.860
Well, I'll just pick up my other phone here.

01:19:37.280 --> 01:19:48.280
Oh, Pond, I guess you're smarter than they think.

01:19:50.280 --> 01:19:53.620
Let me – let me just see if maybe it's that line.

01:19:53.680 --> 01:19:55.240
Let me try my VoIP phone here.

01:19:55.320 --> 01:19:57.460
I'm going to have to put you guys on hold for a second.

01:19:57.860 --> 01:19:58.660
Oh, forget about it, then.

01:19:59.320 --> 01:20:00.680
Okay, okay, okay.

01:20:01.140 --> 01:20:02.540
What, you don't want to hear my lovely hold music?

01:20:03.180 --> 01:20:04.360
No, not for the radio show.

01:20:04.360 --> 01:20:09.400
So, well, like I said, same with the intro to hacking.

01:20:09.500 --> 01:20:18.320
We just sort of barely scratched the surface, and we just sort of tried to cram as much information as we could in however long we took, an hour and a half or so.

01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:24.160
Basically, it's been about an hour and a half or so, hasn't it?

01:20:24.260 --> 01:20:25.120
Yeah, it certainly has.

01:20:25.500 --> 01:20:25.740
Yeah.

01:20:25.960 --> 01:20:28.260
I think we're going to have to edit some stuff out, but we'll take care of that.

01:20:28.260 --> 01:20:32.160
So, anyway, that's what it is.

01:20:32.300 --> 01:20:36.500
We try to cram as much stuff as we could in the time that we're allotted.

01:20:37.600 --> 01:20:40.600
So, but if you want to learn more, like I said, defaultradio.com.

01:20:40.640 --> 01:20:41.780
It's a real fun show to listen to.

01:20:42.760 --> 01:20:43.680
It's quite humorous.

01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:44.920
I enjoyed the format.

01:20:45.640 --> 01:20:47.440
I think I was on one episode once upon a time.

01:20:47.440 --> 01:20:48.300
You were on one episode.

01:20:48.680 --> 01:20:51.260
I was on like the second to last episode they ever did.

01:20:52.040 --> 01:20:53.040
I was on a bunch of them.

01:20:53.680 --> 01:20:55.020
Yeah, you were always there.

01:20:55.500 --> 01:20:59.240
I was on one of particular interest to a certain government agency, too.

01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:02.440
Which I wasn't.

01:21:02.440 --> 01:21:02.740
All right.

01:21:03.280 --> 01:21:04.200
I found that out.

01:21:04.200 --> 01:21:10.060
So, defaultradio.com.

01:21:10.580 --> 01:21:11.420
It's been around forums.

01:21:11.540 --> 01:21:12.380
They have a freaking forum.

01:21:13.860 --> 01:21:15.840
Natus, do you have any site you want to see?

01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:17.280
Oldfreak.com.

01:21:19.200 --> 01:21:20.160
Spell that for us.

01:21:21.380 --> 01:21:27.540
Old, O-L-D-S-K-O-O-L-P-H-R-E-A-K.com.

01:21:28.580 --> 01:21:30.420
And don't forget about Freaks and Geeks, too.

01:21:30.600 --> 01:21:31.320
Yeah, Freaks and Geeks.

01:21:31.380 --> 01:21:32.580
I was going to plug that if you weren't.

01:21:33.600 --> 01:21:33.960
Okay.

01:21:35.080 --> 01:21:36.300
Natus, Freaks, too.

01:21:36.360 --> 01:21:37.540
P-H-R-E-A-K-S.

01:21:38.100 --> 01:21:38.320
Yeah.

01:21:38.640 --> 01:21:39.540
It's good stuff.

01:21:40.560 --> 01:21:40.820
Yeah.

01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:42.340
I don't know.

01:21:42.400 --> 01:21:43.860
There's a couple other sites out there.

01:21:43.980 --> 01:21:44.520
Let's not forget.

01:21:45.240 --> 01:21:46.140
Phonetrips.com.

01:21:46.180 --> 01:21:46.660
Oh, jeez.

01:21:46.700 --> 01:21:47.800
I can't believe I forgot that.

01:21:48.720 --> 01:21:49.680
Bernie saved me.

01:21:51.360 --> 01:21:54.620
And then go use the Internet Wayback Machine and go look at what are the other ones.

01:21:54.760 --> 01:21:56.160
Telco Insiders was good.

01:21:56.440 --> 01:21:57.360
There's Phone Losers.

01:21:58.940 --> 01:22:00.820
Wait, Phone Losers doesn't exist anymore?

01:22:01.580 --> 01:22:02.280
No, it does.

01:22:02.280 --> 01:22:04.260
Telco Insiders doesn't, though.

01:22:04.260 --> 01:22:06.440
Yeah, I'm never a big fan of Phone Losers.

01:22:07.100 --> 01:22:12.040
Yeah, I never was, but it was kind of a shock to me if they actually had ceased to exist.

01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:14.980
Yeah, they'll always be around.

01:22:14.980 --> 01:22:18.580
I'm not trying to make a thing, but they're basically the cockroaches.

01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:20.960
I was just about to say they're the cockroaches.

01:22:21.440 --> 01:22:23.720
I mean, I'm not using that in a negative light.

01:22:23.880 --> 01:22:26.520
It's just that it's more of their tenacity than anything else.

01:22:26.800 --> 01:22:27.380
Oh, yeah.

01:22:29.380 --> 01:22:29.720
All right.

01:22:29.860 --> 01:22:33.060
Yeah, phonetrips.com where you can listen to all the old stuff.

01:22:33.280 --> 01:22:35.440
You know, it doesn't apply anymore, but it's really cool to listen to.

01:22:35.800 --> 01:22:37.880
Oh, it's so much fantastic to listen to.

01:22:37.920 --> 01:22:38.960
I love listening to that.

01:22:38.960 --> 01:22:40.140
I love my iPod.

01:22:40.580 --> 01:22:40.940
Same here.

01:22:41.100 --> 01:22:44.440
I love driving around with my windows open, blasting phone trips.

01:22:45.380 --> 01:22:46.580
Yeah, I know you love that.

01:22:46.880 --> 01:22:51.160
It drives both my sister and my fiancé nuts.

01:22:51.980 --> 01:22:52.860
Completely nuts.

01:22:53.080 --> 01:22:55.160
How to learn about phones and ruin your marriage.

01:22:55.260 --> 01:22:56.260
phonetrips.com.

01:22:56.260 --> 01:23:01.240
Well, they both – I mean, they don't care about the content.

01:23:01.400 --> 01:23:03.500
They just tune it out, but they can't stand the noises.

01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:05.580
It's like the various clucks and clunks through the system.

01:23:05.660 --> 01:23:06.560
It just drives them batty.

01:23:07.140 --> 01:23:07.760
It's hilarious.

01:23:10.400 --> 01:23:11.040
So –

01:23:11.040 --> 01:23:12.120
And also –

01:23:12.120 --> 01:23:12.720
Any other websites?

01:23:13.220 --> 01:23:14.080
Yapple.org.

01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:15.560
Yapple.org, yes.

01:23:15.920 --> 01:23:16.180
Where did it?

01:23:16.180 --> 01:23:16.900
Plug that one.

01:23:17.280 --> 01:23:18.940
Yeah, and stromcarlson.com.

01:23:18.940 --> 01:23:22.360
I've got some recordings of my own and explanations of stuff and phones.

01:23:23.700 --> 01:23:25.360
Blackratchet.org also has stuff on there.

01:23:25.680 --> 01:23:25.800
Yes.

01:23:26.260 --> 01:23:28.880
I guess we can't forget Verizon Fears, too.

01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:31.340
Oh, yeah, verizonfears.com.

01:23:32.360 --> 01:23:34.440
That has some interesting stuff on it.

01:23:35.120 --> 01:23:36.260
Oh, Bells Mind.

01:23:36.800 --> 01:23:37.680
Oh, jeez.

01:23:37.800 --> 01:23:38.240
Oh, man.

01:23:38.280 --> 01:23:39.440
How can we forget all these websites?

01:23:39.540 --> 01:23:40.960
We should have written all these down.

01:23:41.380 --> 01:23:41.580
Yeah.

01:23:42.300 --> 01:23:44.560
BellsMind.net is really good.

01:23:45.280 --> 01:23:49.440
Now, I won't tell about the other one out there because really that one sucks.

01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:50.040
Yeah.

01:23:50.280 --> 01:23:55.180
Well, let's not forget the greatest resource for free numbering information,

01:23:55.180 --> 01:23:56.960
the North American Numbering Plan Administration,

01:23:57.600 --> 01:24:01.400
NANPA.com, N-A-N-P-A.com.

01:24:02.140 --> 01:24:03.260
That's –

01:24:03.260 --> 01:24:03.820
But what's N?

01:24:04.120 --> 01:24:06.060
Nancy, Alpha, Nancy –

01:24:06.060 --> 01:24:09.300
November, Alpha, November, Papa, Alpha.com.

01:24:09.880 --> 01:24:10.040
Yes.

01:24:10.960 --> 01:24:11.360
Nancy.

01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:12.360
Nancy.

01:24:12.520 --> 01:24:14.340
Well, no, I think Nancy was the old school one.

01:24:15.120 --> 01:24:15.440
Was it?

01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:15.700
Okay.

01:24:16.120 --> 01:24:16.560
All right.

01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:18.280
Hey, Natus, do you have any announcements?

01:24:20.800 --> 01:24:22.040
Any book signing tours?

01:24:23.740 --> 01:24:24.140
No.

01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:24.920
No.

01:24:25.540 --> 01:24:25.860
Strom?

01:24:26.420 --> 01:24:27.580
I have a big announcement.

01:24:28.160 --> 01:24:30.760
Binrev Radio call-in voicemail is back.

01:24:31.440 --> 01:24:32.480
Oh, we announced that last week.

01:24:32.740 --> 01:24:33.080
Did we?

01:24:33.320 --> 01:24:33.760
Oh, okay.

01:24:34.160 --> 01:24:34.660
Well, I did.

01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:35.420
You weren't here.

01:24:35.660 --> 01:24:36.160
You were sleeping.

01:24:36.560 --> 01:24:38.420
I've been so massively busy this week.

01:24:38.460 --> 01:24:38.900
It's crazy.

01:24:39.020 --> 01:24:40.580
I haven't had time to listen to the previous episode yet.

01:24:41.420 --> 01:24:41.880
But, yeah.

01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:45.280
So, I guess I'll just announce the number anyway, in case people weren't listening last week.

01:24:45.600 --> 01:24:45.980
Yep, go ahead.

01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:46.840
Drop this number down.

01:24:47.420 --> 01:24:47.960
Get out a pen.

01:24:48.060 --> 01:24:48.200
Ready?

01:24:48.300 --> 01:24:48.500
Okay.

01:24:50.500 --> 01:24:53.580
213-415-1047.

01:24:54.080 --> 01:24:54.920
I repeat.

01:24:55.860 --> 01:25:00.280
213-415-1047.

01:25:02.980 --> 01:25:03.580
All right.

01:25:04.660 --> 01:25:07.820
Email, as always, since we're doing that, we should have sort of gone to that.

01:25:08.200 --> 01:25:09.520
Radio at binrev.com.

01:25:11.540 --> 01:25:14.400
Yeah, my announcement is 2,600 meetings this Friday.

01:25:15.260 --> 01:25:20.120
Be there or be square via the Boston or the LA one or whatever your local one is.

01:25:20.320 --> 01:25:22.360
Or, hell, set one up yourself, as always.

01:25:23.820 --> 01:25:27.120
I'll be in the Los Angeles one, so you better be there if you're in Los Angeles.

01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:29.220
I'll be in Boston, so you better be there.

01:25:30.060 --> 01:25:30.940
Where will you be, Natas?

01:25:32.980 --> 01:25:34.120
It won't be to any of them.

01:25:34.200 --> 01:25:34.720
Sorry, Warren.

01:25:35.860 --> 01:25:38.420
I was thinking about going down to New York for a weekend, but I'm not sure.

01:25:38.420 --> 01:25:42.440
Well, Natas may be appearing at the New York 2600 meeting.

01:25:43.180 --> 01:25:46.780
I think Gray Area is supposed to be there, so there's another phone freak you can talk to.

01:25:49.220 --> 01:25:49.580
Shouts.

01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:50.200
Who has shouts?

01:25:51.640 --> 01:25:52.140
I do.

01:25:52.600 --> 01:25:53.480
Who do you have shouts for?

01:25:54.200 --> 01:25:54.920
You go first.

01:25:54.920 --> 01:25:57.300
Because you're on the little shout-outs list first.

01:25:57.540 --> 01:25:58.540
I'm on the shout-outs list first.

01:25:59.280 --> 01:26:00.440
So, shout-out to you, Natas.

01:26:00.460 --> 01:26:01.180
Thanks for coming on.

01:26:04.540 --> 01:26:06.560
Shout-out to all the old-school freaks out there, man.

01:26:06.920 --> 01:26:07.160
Yes.

01:26:07.480 --> 01:26:08.160
Keeping it real.

01:26:08.320 --> 01:26:08.680
Yeah.

01:26:09.040 --> 01:26:14.420
Shout-out to Mark Bernay, Evan Dorbell, Bill New York, Joy Bubbles.

01:26:14.560 --> 01:26:15.360
Joy Bubbles, yes.

01:26:16.940 --> 01:26:17.500
Al Bernay.

01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:18.520
Al Bernay.

01:26:18.520 --> 01:26:19.000
Chris Bernay.

01:26:20.440 --> 01:26:21.120
Chris Bernay.

01:26:21.360 --> 01:26:21.760
Chris Bernay.

01:26:21.820 --> 01:26:22.360
Oh, of course.

01:26:22.460 --> 01:26:23.240
Can't forget Chris Bernay.

01:26:23.660 --> 01:26:23.820
Yeah.

01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:25.500
The president.

01:26:26.520 --> 01:26:26.760
Yep.

01:26:27.180 --> 01:26:27.880
Mr. President.

01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:35.420
And we mean Chris Bernay, Mr. President, not George Bush, Mr. President.

01:26:35.540 --> 01:26:40.220
So, before all you weirdo political activist type start emailing us with hate mail.

01:26:41.240 --> 01:26:42.640
Bush derangement syndrome at work.

01:26:42.980 --> 01:26:43.080
Yeah.

01:26:43.280 --> 01:26:44.380
Natas, who do you have shouts for?

01:26:44.380 --> 01:26:46.180
You probably have much more interesting shouts than we do.

01:26:47.140 --> 01:26:47.700
Oh, God.

01:26:48.920 --> 01:26:54.700
Decoder, of course, Lucky, I don't know, Doug, everybody.

01:26:55.040 --> 01:26:56.080
Everybody from the forum.

01:26:56.840 --> 01:26:57.880
Too many people to list.

01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:06.100
Let's give a shout-out to Wardile with VoIP and Go IAX, Go Eeks, whatever you want to call it.

01:27:06.780 --> 01:27:08.720
Go IAX, Go Eeks, whatever you want to call it.

01:27:08.740 --> 01:27:11.120
Dan and Wardile still, because I think it's elite.

01:27:12.140 --> 01:27:14.020
You can hand-scan until the cows come home.

01:27:14.020 --> 01:27:19.500
And a shout-out to textdrop.com, T-X-T-R-O-P.com.

01:27:19.580 --> 01:27:21.820
That's my site, and it's elite, and I haven't said that before.

01:27:23.020 --> 01:27:23.760
So, that's my site.

01:27:24.760 --> 01:27:25.680
Leakness, textdrop.com.

01:27:25.960 --> 01:27:27.000
I'll have to check that one out.

01:27:27.100 --> 01:27:28.000
I haven't been to your site.

01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:30.440
T-X-T-D-R-O-P.com.

01:27:31.220 --> 01:27:34.700
It has nothing to do with it, but it's free SMSs, free text messaging.

01:27:35.360 --> 01:27:35.660
All right.

01:27:35.660 --> 01:27:36.920
I'm on the show right now.

01:27:37.840 --> 01:27:39.060
Well, that's what this show is about.

01:27:39.440 --> 01:27:42.880
I got out to Lindsay Zohan for that one shot with the phone, because I was elite.

01:27:42.880 --> 01:27:45.960
Amen to that.

01:27:47.060 --> 01:27:48.800
Yeah, I'll put an amen to that one.

01:27:50.660 --> 01:27:57.920
Site of the reeks, ocremix.org, which is a bunch of remixes of old-school computer games

01:27:57.920 --> 01:27:59.840
and video game songs.

01:28:00.040 --> 01:28:02.700
And I got to say, it's awesome.

01:28:03.980 --> 01:28:05.220
So much stuff there.

01:28:05.280 --> 01:28:06.780
It's amazing how much stuff they have.

01:28:07.740 --> 01:28:10.480
Speaking of which, our closing music tonight is from this website.

01:28:10.480 --> 01:28:12.440
And it's an Estratosphere.

01:28:12.700 --> 01:28:16.500
It's the Super Mario Bros. 2 Super Buck Jazz OC Remix.

01:28:18.460 --> 01:28:19.640
And it's good.

01:28:19.740 --> 01:28:22.360
It's kind of different than what we usually play, but still.

01:28:22.620 --> 01:28:24.740
I got to say, it's one of my two favorites right now.

01:28:25.060 --> 01:28:27.500
Maybe I'll play the other favorite next week.

01:28:29.120 --> 01:28:30.400
So it's about that time.

01:28:31.180 --> 01:28:33.400
So we will see you next week.

01:28:33.780 --> 01:28:34.540
Same hack time.

01:28:35.300 --> 01:28:36.220
Same hack channel.

01:28:37.400 --> 01:28:37.680
Peace.

01:28:40.480 --> 01:28:41.600
Peace.

01:29:01.820 --> 01:29:02.280
Peace.

01:29:02.360 --> 01:29:02.420
Peace.

01:29:02.420 --> 01:29:02.540
Peace.

01:29:02.540 --> 01:29:03.120
Peace.

01:29:03.120 --> 01:29:03.180
Peace.

01:29:03.220 --> 01:29:03.520
Peace.

01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:04.240
Peace.

01:29:04.240 --> 01:29:34.220
We'll be right back.

01:29:34.240 --> 01:30:04.220
Thank you.

01:30:04.240 --> 01:30:34.220
Thank you.

01:30:34.240 --> 01:31:04.220
Thank you.

01:31:04.240 --> 01:31:06.240
Thank you.