This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs with you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalls ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hood, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused the fight between Un and Jay-Z
Cause CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it night free
You feel that rattle in your bones
When I tell you we just packed out Jones
And NASDAQ leaves your fight on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crew
They're real phones, source codes, ISO, RAM, SIF, SIF
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crew
Hello and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 146
Today's date is May 2nd, 2006
I'm Black Ratchet and with us this evening is Not Siri
Hey everybody
Hello Dr. Nopty
Oh my god, it's been a long time
Dude, it's been too long
Yeah, I don't know how many episodes it's been
But it's been a whole bunch
I probably could check and find out
But that would lead to copious amounts of dead air
So I won't do that
Yeah, we'll save that for some other time
It's been a while
I think the last time we had you on here was Ham Radio, wasn't it?
Um, no, I, you know what, I don't really know
It could have been Ham Radio, could have been Ruby on Rails, could have been something
Well, can't have you on Ruby on Rails because Ruby on Rails is our topic tonight
Oh, yeah
No, we did talk about it at some point
Well, I think we might have mentioned, I don't know, maybe we actually talked about it at some point
And said, hey, you know, that would make a good episode
Ah, yeah, well, hey
Um, I'm old and my mind is failing me, so
We're all old
We're a bunch of old hackers
Isn't it going to be scary when, like, all of us, like, you know, hit retirement age
We're basically just sitting there and we're going to, like, start talking to our grandkids
And calling them noobs
Well, not to change the subject, but I'm not going to retire by the time I'm 30
So, uh, that's going to happen sooner than you think
Not 30 to play
On this Gulfstream 4
Heading out the world
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa
If I'm going to have a Gulfstream, it's going to be a Gulfstream 5
Gulfstream 5, whatever
I don't even know what that is
Is that, like, versions, or are they, like, different type of models, or?
They're, uh, they're essentially versions, you know
Oh, okay
Gulfstream 5 is the latest and greatest
I actually had this discussion with somebody else the other day
They were talking about being a millionaire playboy
And they said, yeah, I got a Gulfstream 4
And I'm like, Gulfstream 5 is the way to go
I was actually on one once
And it is so cool, you can't even believe it
How the hell did you get on a Gulfstream 5, or can you say?
I would rather not explain that
But, uh, but it's pretty cool
I got to see the forward-looking infrared system
That could, uh, it was just wild, okay?
Oh, that sounds pretty badass
Yeah, I was sitting in the hangar
And I was in the cockpit
And the, uh, and the guy was showing me
Check this out
Flipped on the forward-looking infrared
And it's pointed at the wall
He puts his hands on the wall
He pulls them away
And I got to see these handprints
These, you know, thermal handprints
Just fading out on the wall
That's crazy
Yeah
Yeah, infrared cameras are cool
I was
I, I, I, I had to go
And, uh, I won't even say how I got there
But I went on a tour of a fire station
They were showing the
All the little kitties
I was supervising the, uh
The, the wonderful
Ooh, we can check smoke
And see people's bodies there
And I'm going, dude
They're like three
They really don't care
But I was like, ooh, wow
This shit's pretty cool
And it was like a $10,000 camera
And I was like, wow
I'm never going to get one of those
Yeah, actually you can
You can get them cheaper than that
Um, I know somebody
Who bought one on eBay
And, uh, it really wasn't that expensive
But it needs like all kinds of
It needs like argon
Or something like that in it
Um, to, to keep it going
And it gets expensive to maintain
But the camera on this jet
Forget about how much the camera cost
I don't know
I'm sure it was a fortune
Forget about how much the lens cost
Lens cost
I'm sure that was a fortune too
The piece of crystal in front of the lens
To keep the water off of it
Was $25,000
Holy shit
Yeah
So you're going to have to
I think you might have to push
That retirement date back
To like the $35,000 or so
Yeah, probably
If you want to get that
Forward look at infrared
And you know
Oh, geez
What about one of my Gulfstream 5
Oh
Okay, I want to push that
Retirement age a little bit back
Oh, yeah
Hey, if, uh
If you want more crazy stats
About the thing
Direct TV on a Gulfstream 5
Costs $800,000
Just, uh
Throwing that out there
Do you have like
The price list
Like sitting right next to you
Going
Not series
Gulfstream 5
Wish list
No, you know
When somebody takes you
On a tour
Of a Gulfstream 5
There's really not much
Of it that you forget
Ah, yeah
I can give you that
Yeah
It's just wild
Anyway
So I guess we're done
With jet talk
For a little while
I don't know
You can have like
Maybe instead of
Ruby on Rails
We can just talk
About jets
I really like
The finer points
Of an F-22 Raptor
Oh, jeez
Okay
That's a little more
Pricey than a Gulfstream 5
I believe
I was actually
I saw this last night
They had this issue
Where this guy
Was like warming up
His F-22
And I think
It was still
It wasn't in production yet
They were still testing it
And, you know
They're trying to
They, you know
They closed the canopy down
Which is the little bubble
Over the pilot
In case you don't know
All this, you know
Leap pilot speak
And they get a little
Aero light
And they're like
Oh, okay
Cycle the canopy again
So they open it up
And they close it back down
The air light's still there
And they said
Okay, do it one more time
And they open it up
And they close it down
The air light's still there
And they're like
Crap
Okay, open it back up
Nope
It's not opening up
And
They
Let's see
They tried to do
All kinds of stuff to it
They were pulling fuses
And they could not
Get this canopy to open
So eventually
They had to call
The fire truck
The fire rescue crew over
And they took a
Sawzall to it
Oh, God
Yes, and they had to
Cut the pilot out
Now
I was actually looking
At the log on this
And the initial error
Was reported 8-15
And they cut the pilot
Out around 2 p.m.
So
Wow
I was like
What a disaster
And how much do you think
The damage was to the plane
Just to replace a canopy
Oh, yeah
I don't imagine
That those canopies
Are made out of
Cheap materials
Just a ballpark figure
I don't know
200 grand
Maybe
I actually
You overshot it
It was like
137.5
Really?
Okay, well
Maybe
They were very careful
When they saw
I think they had to
Replace the whole
Thing
Just to guess
Yeah, anytime
I think of how much
Something costs
On a plane
I always have to
Multiply it
By several factors
In order to get
The right number
Or even close
I think
And plus
You have to
Have to add
The government factor in
Oh, yeah
Yeah, yeah
Two million dollars
For a hammer
Yep, that's it
That's one
Kick-ass hammer
I bet you
It was a billion-dollar
Sawzall that they
Used, too
No, it's probably
Like, you know
Some, like, you know
Civilian Jim Bob
Has one out
In his pickup truck
Right next to
His shotgun
Oh, they should have
Just shot the canopy
Off
There you go
Yeah, I'm sure
I don't know
I would expect the canopy
To be at least
Somewhat bulletproof
Yeah, yeah
But it's not
Sawzall-proof
Apparently, so
There we go
We can, like, you know
If you ever attack China
China can, like, you know
Deploy special
Elite operations men
With, like, you know
Little suction cups
Like, Mission Impossible
To sawzall
The canopy off
And kill the pilots
Yeah, they'll just
Parachute down onto the jet
And grab on
Sawzall
There you go
I saw it on TV
I'm sure they can do it
Definitely
All right
Enough of
Airplane revolution radio here
Yep
Shall we go into the email?
Yeah, why not
All right
Our first email tonight
Is from
See, again
The one with the whole letter
In the middle of his
With the number
In the middle of his name
I'm assuming it's Stinger
Unless it's, like, you know
Sting 3R
Uh, greets
I was wondering
If you guys have ever seen
An IRC bot
That
IRC bot
That did
Nmap
And NS Lookup
And zombie boxes
Do not count
Well, my friend Mixer
And I have
Come up with a modification
To Bitchbot
Which allows users
To run
Nmap
And NS Lookup
Commands
I thought it was
A pretty decent idea
If you would like the code
Shoot me an email
Cheers
Stinger
Sting 3R
Oh, Stinger
I'm terribly sorry
Not to burst your bubble
But this is rather
Easily to accomplish
In about 20 lines of pearl
Kind of
Kind of felt sad
Having to say that
But
Oh, well
Um
However, what I
Don't know
Have you ever heard of
Bitchbot?
Uh, no
I was actually going to
Google it now
But I think my
Internet connection
Just died
So
How can I do that?
Uh, I really don't know
What Bitchbot is written in
So, you know
This actually could be
An amazing feat
But I just don't know
About it
Because I have no clue
What the heck
Bitchbot is
Um, I believe
Pound Telefreak
Over on
IRC.2600.com
Uh, has a bot
That does
DNS
Whois
And, uh
Nampa queries
I think
Uh, I believe
It's called
A.E. Fox
Or something
You know
If you want to
Head over there
And check it out
But, um
Yes, you know
It's a good thing
I've, um
The whole NSLOOKUP thing
Is kind of handy
I
Not exactly
You know
A lot of people
Use it more than I do
I mean
I've seen people
Like basically submit
Like query
After query
Just like pulling down
DNS records
Personally I'm, you know
A bit old fashioned
That way
And I just
Pull up NSLOOKUP
Or, you know
Whois or something
And run it myself
Yeah, I don't know
Why I would really
Need, um
An IRC bot
That did
DNS lookups
It seems kind of weird
But, I guess
I'm never an IRC
So, it's, uh
That's something
That's going to have to change
You know
When you have free time again
Well, yeah
I really
You know
I don't have enough time
To do anything
Um, so
I don't know
That IRC really fits into that
And by the way
I just looked up
Uh, Bitchbot
And it's written in Pro
It's written in Pro
Well, it's handy still
You know
I'm sure they took
20 lines of Pro
And they pop it in there
Actually, I'm actually
Curious what modules it use
I wonder if it's actually
You know
Just TN-coded
Or it actually uses
One of the, uh
Official
IRC modules
That they have
From CPAN
Who knows
I don't know
Yeah
See, see
You didn't Google enough
Shame on you
Hey, you know
I could spend the rest of the show
Looking up, uh
Bitchbot
But I don't know
Dude, we can have a fourth IRC show
And, you know
Everyone in
Pound Bin Rev
The next day
Will be like
Oh my god
The show sucks now
They had another IRC episode
And someone will be
Leading the charge
And I'm not going to say who
Um
Actually
Have you heard about the
Um
Just
I guess we could toss a little bit
Of current events in here
Actually, uh
Uh
SANS
Or
The Internet Storm Center
Which I think is the, like
Most stupidest name
For a, uh
You know
Place ever
I expect to see like this
I expect to see all these
Like
You remember like
The really old guy
From like the 1980s
Who used to be on the
Weather Channel
Who used to do all the
Hurricanes
Uh-huh
Yeah
That's basically
Every time I think of
Internet Storm Center
I think of this old guy
Sitting in front of this
You know
Map of the Internet
Saying
Oh, you know
We've moved up to a
Category 3 virus threat
Oh, God
It was like
Bob something or other
I'm sure
I'm sure people
I'm sure like
Two people know
What the hell
I'm talking about
And all the rest
Of the young'uns
Are like
Who?
Weather Channel?
You can have like
Little clouds
Like float across the world
And show the virus threats
That'd be great
Dude, that'd be pretty cool
Get a bunch of little icons
Going on there
With like, you know
You know
Oh, geez
You have a 60%
Of a virus outbreak today
Oh, God
That would be cool
And, you know
Just like regular weathermen
You would never have to be right
You know
There's no accountability
Exactly
By the way
Isc.sands.org
The Internet Storm Center
The thing you're talking about
Yes, yes
The website is
The most hideous thing
I've ever seen
Oh, my God
Yeah, they really need
To redesign that
It's not even redesign
They need to
Like attempt to design it
In the first place
It is awful
It looks like
Like a placeholder page
From 1996
I don't even think
It looks like a placeholder page
I just think it looks like
A normal webpage from 1996
All it's missing
Is the pictures
Of the guy's cat
Or the little flame
Or the hand
Reaching out
Of the little page
Oh, God
You can never forget
Those things
Or a couple
Of blink tags
Oh, definitely
I think actually
There is a blink tag
In here
Hold on a second
Oh, no, there's not
Actually, I believe
When like you get up
To like, you know
Oh, my God
We're all going to die
I think something blinks
If I remember correctly
Yeah, it's got to be
When you move up to
You know
Whatever they call it
You know
Internet condition yellow
Anyway
They actually
Were
There's apparently
There's a new bug out
A new zombie bot
Since we were on the topic
Sort of already
It's actually pretty neat
Apparently
They're using
Waste
For a command
Control concept
Now, for those of you
Who don't know
What Waste is
It's a
Do you remember Waste?
It was some type of
It was written by the guys
From Nolso
Yes
And it was some type of
Encrypted peer-to-peer
Thing of the jake
I thought
But I never used it
I pulled down the source
And I played with it
For, you know
I looked at it
But I never actually
Could set it up
Because you apparently
Need like, you know
A bunch of friends
And I didn't have
Those in college
Or friends that were
Into peer-to-peer stuff
And actually
Apparently
They're theorizing
That they're using
Waste for a command
And control
For all the zombie bots
And it's all encrypted
And they don't know
What it's doing yet
And they're all like
Going
Oh my god
And I actually thought
You know
Hey
Whoever thought
Of that zombie bot
You know
Way to push the envelope
You know
Encrypted
Not using IRC
Hey, pretty good
I don't know
If that's actually
What it's doing though
Who knows
It could just be
Sending back
Like junk data
That doesn't mean
I think that'd be
Really funny
If someone did that
Just make like a virus
That sends out junk
And like
You know
Make it look like
This you know
Hideously complex
Piece of equipment
Yeah
And make it over time
Like send more
And more traffic
As if it's building up
To something
To really scare people
Or have like
Some way of
Like you know
Have some way
Of actually
You know
Having a command
And control thing
And just have it
Send like
Random data out
Every once in a while
So like you know
When you hear something
On the news
Like you know
Al-Qaeda chatter
Is up
You know
Start doing it
More
Really
I'm sure
You'd probably
Get into lots
Of trouble
In that
And you know
You'd have
Men in black suits
Beating down your door
Immediately five minutes
Afterwards
But
Yeah
They would just
Prime accord your house
Cut it in half
And then set you
On fire probably
I think that
Well you never know
No I'm pretty sure
Send you down
To Gitmo
Our next email tonight
Is
From
Whitefly
Hello
Strong
Black Ratchet
And co-host
I'm a regular
Son of the show
And I was wondering
If I could get your
Take
On desktop
I can't read tonight
On desktop
Search
Tools
I've been noticing
Mention of the
Desktop search
Who was offered
By various companies
Such as Google
Yahoo
Microsoft
And in a ton
Of places lately
Most recently
Network World
So I'm curious
If someone can explain
What the big deal is
I mean
Oh boy
A program enabling
Super fast searching
Via file indexing
What a marvel
Of modern ingenuity
What will these companies
Think of next
But wait
Isn't that exactly
What you would find
In utilities
Such as locate
And update
Update DB
Would have done so well
For god knows
How long now
I guess I will fail
To see why Google
Is getting such props
For reinventing the wheel
Cheers
Whitefly
Well
Are you a desktop
Search tool fan
Because I just
Started using them
Recently
Maybe a couple
Of months ago
And I got a
Stay out
I'm a big fan
I mean
I'm impressed
I mean
I've never actually
Used it
But I have an uncle
Who runs a small
Business
And he swears
By it
But if you know
If you want to go
For this one
Go for the gold man
Alright well
I tried Google
Desktop a long time
A long time ago
Just for the hell of it
And I thought the same
Thing
It was going to be like
You know
I type in a file name
And it says
Hey here's your file name
Which I can just use
Find in Windows
If it actually worked
Consistently
But in any case
That's a whole
Another story
But I read a review
Somewhere about
The Microsoft
Search tool
And I was very
Hesitant to use it
But I tried it
And it is awesome
I can search through
All kinds of different
Files
And I can say
You know
I want to find
I have a lot of
PDF documentation
On my computer
So I can say
I want to find
Any document
That contains
The term
2600 hertz
And it doesn't
Have to really
Churn along
And search
It just
You know
It takes two
Or three seconds
And then bam
Everything that I
Need to know
About 2600 hertz
Is popping up
On my screen
So it's not just
Like find
Find will find you
Files
S locate will find you
Files
But this will find you
Files with certain
Content
Or certain file types
With file content
Stuff like that
Or email messages
Or contacts
And it's definitely
Definitely a lot more
Than what it appears
To be at first glance
Yes
Well the story
That I have
Is you know
My uncle
Was showing it to me
And I mean
I was impressed by it
This is actually Google
I haven't actually
Used a Microsoft one
I've heard of it
But I've never actually
You know
I basically
Approach it
With the same
Apprehension you did
But
He like showed me
Like you know
Show me every email
Message
From you know
So and so
Containing you know
Two or three phrases
Of words
And you know
Just show me the
Word documents
From them
And you know
Basically like
You know
Ten seconds later
It shows them
Okay here's all
It is
Here's the dates
You got them
These are the file names
You know
Here's a little preview
Of them
And I was like
Oh wow
That's actually
Pretty good
And I mean
It is like
The same way
As you know
Update DB
And locate
And all that
Kind of stuff
But
I mean
It's also
Like Don Theory
Says
It like takes
All the data
And all the
Metadata into it
And you know
It does a much
Better job
It's not just
Saying
There's a file
Here
It's you know
This is a mail message
You got it
From so and so
Here's the file
Attached from it
You know
It contains
The following words
And you know
It's just
All there
In your fingertips
So
But
Personally
I'm not really
Heavily into it
Because I don't
Have that much
Important stuff
So
Who cares
Really
I mean
I think I might
Install it at work
Because you know
I have
I'm starting to get
Like you know
Tons and tons
Of email
And I save
I'm a pack rat
For email
I save everything
And
It's handy to say
Oh you know
Show me all messages
Containing you know
This phrase
From such and such a person
So when they say
Oh you know
I never said that
You say
Yes you did
And here it is
Sucker
Yeah
It's almost as bad
As return receipts
Oh god
Don't get me started
Oh god
I hate return receipts
You know what drives me nuts
About return receipts
I'm going to start
A little rant here
Right here
With Microsoft
Outlook
It's you know
When someone
You can say
When you first get
A return receipt
It says you know
Such and such a person
Requested a return receipt
When you read it
Or when you replied
Or when you deleted it
Or when you know
There's like four or five
Different events
You can tie it to
And
It says you know
It prompts you up
The first time
Saying you know
Oh you know
So and so
Wanted to send
A return receipt
And you said
Would you like to do this
Yes or no
So
And it has a little
Check box of
Don't show me this again
So
If I click
Don't show me this again
And I click no
What would you think
The response
The proper idea would be
That it wouldn't send
The
Wouldn't send a response
And then in the future
It wouldn't ask you
And it still wouldn't
Send a response
Yes
No it doesn't do that
Go figure
Of course
No it says
Okay you don't want
To send a response
I'll never ask you again
But I'll send it for you
And I was
I was thoroughly
Pissed off
When I found this out
When I walked over
To someone's desk
Whose computer
I was working on
And I see a return receipt
From me
And I was like
What
Now wait a second
Does it send the first one
That you just said no to
No it doesn't
Or only the subsequent ones
Only the subsequent ones
So it does obey you
In that sense
But
That's about it
Yeah
That's kind of a funny way
To look at it
It's like
Okay I don't want to do it
This time
And
I'm not going to ask you again
But it never said
Well
What would you like to do
When I don't ask you
Technically I guess
You could say
It's not a bug
Well no
I mean it makes sense
But at the same time
It's completely
You know
Illogical
Oh yeah
I would never
In a million years
Think that
If I wrote a piece of software
Like that
That that's how it should work
So
Just this one time
Never asked me again
But sent everything else out
Yeah
Okay
Sure
I don't want to do this now
But I sure as hell
I want to do it
Every time in the future
Okay
That makes sense
Ah
Microsoft
I'm not even sure
I wonder if this is like
Actually
I wonder if they like
You know
Copied it for somebody else
Like oh
You know
Lotus Note does this
So it must be a
It must be a feature
Oh god
Lotus Notes
Dude
Why
Why does it even exist
I don't understand
You know
I don't really know much
About Lotus Notes
But I hear
Some people are just zealous
About it
And they think
It's the greatest thing
In the world
I don't get it
Oh
It can
It's better than
Certain other things
Like say
You know
Two words and two letters
Lotus CC mail
Okay
You're probably right
About that
Yeah
So it doesn't
It's not the worst
But it's down there
Okay
And actually
I forgot to mention
This in the email
Whitefly is the only
Person to ever say this
P.S.
The bioinformatics episode
Was kick ass
So
Congratulations
Whitefly
I can't tell if you're
Being sarcastic there
But I think you're the
Only person in the
Human race
Who
Has ever thought that
Really
I don't know
It was
It was a buggy episode
It was buggier than a
Copy of Microsoft Vista
Really
I was pretty sure
I heard that one
And it didn't really
Strike me as buggy
I guess not
Maybe it came off better
I was
I couldn't listen to it
On my iPod
Because I
I was there
I was there for the horror
And I was like
I don't want to listen
To this again
So
Maybe I think
I have a different episode
But I listened to it
In the car
And
It was just fine
I thought
But
Maybe I'm crazy
I'll have to go back
And listen
Well we always know
You're crazy
Well I'm definitely crazy
There's no doubt
But
Maybe specifically
With respect to this
I'm crazy
Anyway
Alright
Shall we go on
The show and tell?
Maybe
Well we're going to do it
Anyway
So screw you
Is it good enough
That I told you
I was on a Gulfstream 5
And I can't tell you
Who it belonged to?
That's my show and tell
Well here you go
We can give you
Some material
To bail yourself out
As always
We'll ask you
So what's up
With bellsmind.net
Oh hey
Well I
I think your
VoIP is breaking up
Or something
I didn't really hear
What you're saying
Bellsmind.net
Actually
There have been
Some behind the scenes
Changes on the
Development site
But
It's
It's going nowhere fast
Just because
I have even less time
Than I had before
I keep trying to make time
And I make time
A little bit here and there
But
Never enough to
You know
Rally the troops
And get everybody excited
And say hey
Here's the new
Bellsmind
Like that's
That's what my goal is
And
Who knows how long
It's going to take
Sure
Behind the scenes changes
That's like oh yeah
I did all this work
That you can't see
So
But it's there
It really is
Look at the left hand
No actually
You know what
If you want
I'll show you the code
Sometime
And you'll see
It's wildly different
And it does
Exactly the same thing
Except
It's like 10 times faster
I'll be able to
Query
The database
Faster
Oh yeah
You'll be able to
Pull my whole database
In one second
Because you're using
Postgres
Of course
If I was using
MySQL
I don't know
What would happen
It would probably
Just crash
There'd be a tear
In the space time
Fabric itself
Yeah
God
MySQL sucks
Oh my god
It sucks so bad
I had to get it out
Not bad
I think
How long
Did that take
Like 25 minutes
Almost
I think that's
A record man
Yeah
You know
Usually
I just start
Talking to people
Even if we're not
Talking about computers
And I'll just start
Screaming like I have
Tourettes or something
MySQL sucks
But I managed
To keep it under control
Probably because
I spat it out
And screamed about it
At work today
Do you use
MySQL at work
Because that would
Just be the ultimate
Irony
Hold on a second
Do I
I don't think so
Somebody asked me
If I could use it
For something though
Are they still alive
Oh no
Actually
Did you bury them
Down in the Bronx
No
They were curious
About using PHP
To hook up
To some database
And asked if it was
Possible with MySQL
And Microsoft
And Oracle
Which it is
But in any case
Yeah
The company
That I'm doing
This work for
Is considering
Adding MySQL
To their offering
Of databases
Which I think
Is ridiculous
Not there
He's leading the charge
Well you know
Hey
I don't pull any
Punches with
These guys at all
So they
They're like
What do you think
About MySQL
I was like
Oh
Open the floodgates
Meanwhile
Like you know
Three hours later
Like okay
Okay
We'll just
Shut up
We won't use it
Just be quiet
Yep
All you have to do
Is demonstrate
Your technical prowess
To the network guy
And some programmers
And you're just golden
At that point
So
That's all I had to do
Show them a couple
Cool tricks here and there
And then when they
Ask them my opinion
About something
Be adamant that it sucks
And they listen to you
Oh
Good shit
Don't play games
And say oh
Well it's okay for this
No no no no no
If you don't like it
At all
It totally sucks
For absolutely everything
And we all know
That not theory
Thinks that
Which is really scary
Actually no
I did
I did at some point
Think that there was
A database that was
Well suited to MySQL
But
I can't remember
What it was
Compared to what
Microsoft Access
No it was something
That somebody
It was you know
For somebody's
Like personal website
And it didn't have
All that much data
In it
It was just
Something silly
It was like the
Whole news
News items
Or something
Kind of like a blog
Before there were blogs
Or before there were
Like officially
As a term blog
I told somebody
I actually recommended
MySQL to them
Yeah back when
I just said
Oh hey
Check out my website
You know
It was a straight
HTML file
That I used to edit
Every day
And type in my thoughts
No no no
Oh no
That's a blog now
No no no
It wasn't even
HTML back then
It was like
Okay
Go to this IP address
Slash tilde
Some username
Slash
Index.txt
That's
That's what I'm
Talking about
Index.txt
That's keeping it real
That is
Hacker Gangsta
Dude that was awesome
I miss the long URLs
I mean I miss having
Like you know
A 60 character URL
That's why
Like all my
All my websites
Before I go to them
I huge URL them
And I like
I type them out
Just to
Just to share
The old schoolness
Now I saw
A link somewhere
That was talking
About huge URL
It was an article
Somewhere
Is there actually
A service that
Just does that
As a joke
Because I really
Really really
Want it badly
What huge URL
Yeah
Yeah I think
Isn't it huge URL
I don't know
I looked for it once
And I saw
A reference to it
And
But the site
Wasn't up
It was a long
Time ago
But
No I see
HugeURL.com
Maybe it's
Maybe it's for real now
When I
Searched for
TinyURL
At some point
And some link
To some guy's
Blog came up
And he was
Talking about
TinyURL
And how it
Was cool
And he said
Oh by the way
I think huge URL
Would be a great idea
And you can convert
This
And it was a very
Tiny URL
To like something
That filled up
The whole page
But
Yeah
I haven't used
In a while
It's
It gives you
Literally like
A 500 character
URL
It's amazing
And it works
Completely well
You know
You fire it in
You put it
Into a web browser
Fires it right off
And loads it up
The one time
I had an issue
With it
Is because
One of my
Networks
That I was
Going through
Used a
Transparent proxy
And I would
Feed it a huge
URL
And it would
Chop off
Part of it
Oh that's not good
Did you get
A different page
Or did you get
An error message
I got an error message
And I couldn't
Figure it out
For a while
And I was like
What
I was like
Oh wait
Just so everyone
Knows
Don't use
RCN
Yeah
Good call there
But what I think
Huge URLs should do
Is if
Is if you go to
A huge URL
And it's wrong
It should just
Redirect you to
A different
Random
Huge URL
But
On the same
On the
At the same
In the same breath
That it should not
Just redirect you to
A particular
Random one
Every time you go
Back to it
And mistype it
It's a different
Random one
Just to really
Freak you up
Yeah why not
Myself
Basically
I've been in the
Same boat as you
Are for my
Show and tell
I've been
Working like a
Mofo
I've been
Printing out
All kinds of
Crazy things
Actually I think
I still have that
Photo of my camera
I printed out
2,300 and some
Odd documents
On the printer
At work
And it
It looked pretty
Impressive once
I was done
It was
You take this
I took this
Photo of this
You know
Just piled
Like you know
Two foot high
Of pages
Really
Yeah
Because you know
Some people want
Certain things in
Dead tree format
Despite my best
Efforts
Oh we want to
Write with them
On pen
Well why do you
Want to do that
Well because
You know
We do
I got to tell you
The reason why
I like paper
For some things
Is because if I
Need to read like
15 different things
Simultaneously
And compare stuff
It's just
You know
It's just easier to do
Like right in front of me
Maybe if I had like
A 15 monitor system
It would be different
But I don't
What they're doing
Is they're taking
These pieces of paper
They're going over
They're comparing
It to something
And they're filling
In some data points
On it
Because we
The actual
Electronic format
That we get
Does not have
All the data points
That we need
So we go over
And we consult
The hard record
Of this other area
And they fill in
All the blank spaces
Now why couldn't
They do this
On a laptop
Despite the fact
That I showed them
I could
Lord only knows
I don't know
Yeah it's weird
Whatever
And I don't know
You actually got me
Started on this
Again this evening
While we were
SMSing back and forth
And I was
Looking at cell phones
I can't have yet
Yeah trust me
I know the feeling
You know I
Okay I buy a lot of cell phones
That should be obvious
From anybody who's seen
So wait wait
Did you
Are you just
Are you implying
That you're thinking
About buying another cell phone
Wait wait wait
Hold on
Hear me out
Okay
Hear me out please
I buy a lot of cell phones
Anybody that saw
My sidekick video
In Hack TV
Would recognize that
I mean
If I'm willing to do that
To a sidekick too
And smash it all up
And go crazy
Crazy core
Yeah I'd probably
Probably buy a lot of phones
So I bought a few more phones
Since then
And I finally settled
On the trio
There was one other phone
That I was looking at
But it wasn't out yet
And I really wanted
To switch carriers
And the specs that I had seen
Were comparable
But it looked like
The trio was a little bit better
So I got the trio
The trio's got some problems
And I knew it had some problems
And I expected it to have some problems
Whatever
I can deal with them
For the most part
But I have a friend
Who got this other phone
That I was looking at
He's got Sprint
And he got the PPC 6700
Which is also the same
As the Verizon XD 6700
Although I think Verizon
Is disabled
There's several other features
On it
That Sprint
Is disabled
Yeah like all the normal features
That you would expect
From a cell phone
Yes they have
Yeah yeah I'm sure
Why they do that
Who knows
I guess because Verizon
Is the only cell phone company
That actually has
Any kind of service
They can do
Whatever they want
Whereas everybody else
Yeah you can get
Any phone you want
But it just never works
Anywhere
So
Anyway
So I saw this thing
My buddy showed it to me
And the screen is better
It's faster
It has more memory free
Just pretty much
Everything about it
Is better
And I'm pretty upset about it
So I think I'm going to
Yell at Verizon
And say
You know I've had
So many problems
With the Trio
I want to switch
To this other phone
It's a cheaper phone
So
They'd probably let me
Maybe they would let me do it
I don't know
But if they did
I would definitely
Love to switch
But
That said
I will not buy
Another cell phone
For quite some time
Didn't you say this
Like last time
Yeah
Things have changed though
Like the Trio
Has problems
But it
It does enough
Of what I need it to do
That I can deal with it
So
That's
That's fine by me
My other phones
I was always like
Yeah I get to develop on them
And do all these things
But
Developing on anything
That's not Windows Mobile
Is just
A hassle
Windows Mobile
Is so dumb and easy
I really like it
It's got its problems
But
If I need to write an application
It's very accessible
I just
Go online
Find a million examples
For
Pretty much anything
I want to do
And it's done
The only thing
That's tricky
Is
Accessing the audio hardware
Like playing and recording sounds
If anybody
Knows how to do that
On Windows Mobile
Feel free
To email me
Because I've been
Looking around for it
And I've seen some examples
But they're all
Completely terrible
So
It's one thing
I would like to do
And what is your email address
Since people want to email you
ntheory at binrev.com
It's
Bob Dole
At
Ilikepizza.com
No
It's
Yeah
ntheory at binrev.com
Or
Intheoryat
BellsMine.net
Either one will work
I think they actually
Go to the same place
If I have to guess
But
In any case
Either one of those will work
And
If anybody wants to email me
And talk about
Windows Mobile programming
Please do
Because
You know
I've got
I've got pretty much
Everything down
That I want to do
Except for the audio stuff
Dude
I email you all the time
I emailed you a lot
I've called you
And you don't get back to me
I felt unloved
No
Yeah
Dude
Yes
I like
I left you a message
And you didn't call me back
And I was like
Oh man
And finally
Like Natus tells me
Oh dude
SMSM
That's the only way
You get through to him
Yeah
Funny thing about my voicemail
Is that
I don't like voicemail
Whatsoever
I really
Really can't
And let me tell you why
I don't like
Calling out my voicemail
And going through it
In the sequential manner
That voicemail systems
Force you to do
If I had a screen
That said
You know
Voicemails 1 through 10
And I could click on them
And play them
And fast forward them
And do all that stuff
Like on my laptop
I would probably use it
But
Voicemail on my phone
I have to sit there
And listen to people
Tell me stuff
That they've probably
Already told me
Because it's been so long
Since I've checked my voicemail
It's just very frustrating
It's nothing personal
Against anybody
Like in particular
It's just that
I get a lot of voicemail
That's
That's not necessary
Like
Hey
I'm calling to say hi
I guess you're not around
Well
It's pretty obvious
I'm not around
Because you're talking
About voicemail
You know
I'll give you a call later
It's like
Just going to give me a call later
Then just give me a call later
But
Yes
Text messaging is the way
To get in touch with me
So
Any of you out there
Have my phone number
If you want to get in touch with me
And you left me voicemail
And I never got back to you
It's because
I dial up my voicemail
Probably once a week
And I hit 7
Until the lady says
That's an invalid choice
Because you can't delete
Any more messages
Because they're all gone
And for those of you
Who don't have
A Not Theory cell phone
It's a 900
4N Theory
Ah yes
Isn't that too long
4
I think
N
N-T-H
No
I think it fits right in
Because that's why
We tossed the 4 in there
Because N Theory
Is
Is it long enough
No
N-T-H
O-R-Y
Am I crazy
No I'm crazy
Damn
You're right
I'm wrong
I've been defeated
Yeah
On the next
Iron Phone Freak
Oh wait
Wait wait
No I take that back
I was right
No
No take backs
No
N-T-H
E-O
R-Y
It's 7 right
7
Really
Whatever
Yeah
On the next
Funston Phone Freak
Dude this is still
Getting edited out
Right here
Yeah
Anyway
So
See I don't
You're not on enough
Man
We don't have
These fun episodes
Anymore
We just
You know
Bullshit
For like
Forever
And I'm sure
People hate it
But oh well
Ah well
You know
I've gotten a couple
Of emails
That have
Said the episodes
Have been fun
So that's always
Good to hear
So
It is always
A fun episode
But not
Theory
You know
I try
I try to
Keep it
Lighthearted
And interesting
Yes
We talk about
Cell phones
And how
The Trio
So wait
So you say
Just
Okay
Just quickly
Wrap it up here
John
Trio has
Problems
So I mean
You didn't
Really come
Out with
A verdict
The last
Time we
Talked
Okay
Trio
Has problems
The form
Factor
Is very
Good
I have to
Give it
That
It's better
Than the
PPC
6700
I've used
That phone
And sliding
Off the keyboard
And using
The bigger
You know
The bigger
Keys
Is a little
Bit weird
So I'd
Say
Trio
Has better
Form
Factor
PPC
6700
Has better
Everything
Other than
The fact
That you
Can't
Dial a phone
Number
Without touching
The screen
On the
PPC
6700
Does the
PPC
6700
Have a
Well since
They're talking
About touching
The screen
I assume
It has
Some type
Of stylus
And everything
Yeah
The whole
Thing is a
Touch screen
And it has
No buttons
Other than
The keyboard
That's why
If you want
To dial
A number
You gotta
Punch on
The screen
I don't
Really like
That
I like
Actual
Real buttons
For that
I don't
Know why
That's
One of
The two
Phones
That I'm
Thinking about
Getting
However
With the
Verizon phone
How much
I mean
You gotta
Buy like
A $30
Voice plan
Then on top
Of that
It's a
$45
Data plan
For unlimited
Data
Yeah
It's crazy
Yeah
You wouldn't
Believe how much
My Verizon
Is every month
But
The difference
Is
When I had
Singular
Or T-Mobile
Or
Nextel
Or
Sprint
I've actually
Yeah
I've had
Sprint
Nextel
T-Mobile
Singular
I think
That's
It
Is there
Anybody
Else
Other than
Verizon
I don't
Think so
In the
Northeast
No
I mean
Yeah
Not around
Here
Any
National
Providers
Yeah
There used
To be
AT&T
But now
That's
Singular
So
Yeah
Okay
So I
Can confidently
Say in the
Northeast
I've had
Every single
Phone provider
You can
Have
And
I started
Out with
Sprint
Was pretty
Good
But they
Pissed me
Off
And that's
Another long
Story
And there
Was a
Screaming
Match
And anyway
In any case
Then I went
To Nextel
Nextel
Wasn't so
Good
Then I
Went to
T-Mobile
Wasn't so
Good
Then I
Went to
Singular
For like
A day
And decided
That that
Was equally
As bad
And then
Finally
I was like
I want my
Phone to work
Everywhere
Everyone tells
Me Verizon
Works everywhere
And my
Phone is so
Reliable
Now it's
Like having a
Landline with
Me pretty
Much all
The time
There were
Plenty of
Places when I
Was when I
Had any
Other carrier
I'd be like
Oh there's
No way I
Can call
Somebody from
Here
But with
Verizon it's
So rare
That I
Don't even
Think about
It anymore
If my
Cell phone
Doesn't work
It really
Throws me
Off
Whereas before
If my
Cell phone
Didn't work
It was just
Part of the
Course
So like
Whatever
It's a
Cell phone
It never
Works
So Verizon
Is lead
But you
Pay for it
Big time
You know
My bill's
Over a hundred
Bucks a month
Every month
Yeah I think
My bill was
Working out
To like
99 for
Just me
Yeah
And their
Unlimited data
For 45 bucks
A month
They've disabled
Dial up networking
So you can't
Use your
You can't use
Your trio
As a modem
Unless you
Get a program
Called PDA
Net
Hint hint
Wink wink
But
PDA Net
Verizon claims
That they may
Be releasing
Something to
Let people do
This but
PDA Net's
Already out
And it works
And it's
Cool
But you
Violate
Verizon's
Terms of
Service if
You
Use
Your
45 dollar
A month
Data plan
To hook
Your computer
Up to the
Internet
Or if you
Do any
Type of
Automated
File
Transfers
I think
Is how
They word
It
What the hell
Is an
Automated
File
Transfer
I own my
File
Transfer
Automated
I'm not
Sitting on
The other
End of the
Connection
Assembling
Stuff
Bit for
Bit
Yeah
I'm not
There with
Like a
With a
Piece of
Paper
And some
Checkbox
Saying
Okay
Byte
Number
Four
Yeah
Check
Okay
That was
A
Six
Yeah
It's
Ridiculous
It's
Verizon
Wants
A
Catch
All
Ways
To
Just
Be
Able
To
Say
You
Know
What
We
Don't
Like
You
So
We're
Shutting
Your
Service
Off
You
Die
Now
Yeah
Well
And the
Little
Guy
With
The
Glasses
Like
Comes
To
Your
House
And
Like
Knee
Caps
You
Yeah
And
That's
It
Yeah
Can
You
Hear
Me
Now
And
He's
Kicking
You
In
The
Head
Yeah
Anyway
Sprint
15
A
Month
You
Can
Use
Your
Phone
Allegedly
As
A
Modem
And
It's
Unlimited
Data
Sprint
Has
A
Much
Better
Deal
But
Again
Sprint
Doesn't
Have
The
Service
That
Verizon
Yeah
I
Was
Looking
At
And
Apparently
They're
Their
EVDO
Network
Because
That's
What I
Wanted
I
Wanted
Someone
With
EVDO
So
I
Was
Like
Oh
Okay
So
Sprint
Has
That
And
Apparently
They're
A
Lot
Cheaper
So
I
Need
To
Look
Into
That
I
Can't
Have
These
Phone
Yet
Because
My
Contract
Isn't
Up
Till
November
So
I
Think
Right
Now
Verizon
Is
Sadly
Out
Of
The
Picture
And
The
PPC
6700
Is
Going
To
Reign
Supreme
For
The
Time
Being
I
Want to
Go
Over
And
Talk
To
Nextel
And
Say
Hey
Can
You
Give
Me
And
Worst
Comes
To
Worse
I
Will
Come
Crawling
Back
To
T-Mobile
And
Become
Their
Bitch
Again
And
I
Will
Just
Get
Like
An
MDA
Or
Something
Yeah
Oh
Yeah
We
Talked
About
This
Which
MDA
Were
You
Talking
About
Oh
I
Was
Talking
About
The
One
With
The
Slide
Out
Keyboard
It's
Like
Yeah
I
Know
What
You're
Talking
About
The
MDA
That
I
Really
Like
Is
The
Flip
Around
Screen
That
I
Was
Yeah
But
It's
Got
A
533
Megahertz
Processor
It's
So
Cool
Yeah
And
It's
Got
A
VGA
Screen
I
Think
It's
640
Or
480
That's
Really
Cool
Okay
That's
Something
I
Didn't
Know
I
Don't
Know
It
Was
Big
The
Way
I
Looked
At
It
I
Compared
To
A
6700
It
Was
Big
It
Was
Clunky
And
It
Just
I
Looked
At
It
There's
No
Real
Major
Thing
To
This
Yeah
Well
The
Thing
About
It
It's
Bigger
Than
The
PPC
6700
I've
Held
Both
Of
Them
And
They're
Just
I
Mean
The
MDA
I
Don't
Know
If
It's
MDA5
Or
MDA6
Or
Whatever
It
Is
But
The
One
That
T-Mobile
Hasn't
Released
Yet
In
The
States
It's
Just
Monstrous
It's
Like
Having
A
Laptop
Seriously
I
Don't
Want
A
Laptop
And
One
Of
The
M
Cell
Phone
It's
Cool
It's
Cool
But
The
6700
Has
Built
In
GPS
From
What
I've
Been
Told
Which
Is
Really
Nice
I
Have
A
Bluetooth
GPS
For
My
Trio
But
Which
Has
Its
Advantages
And
Disadvantages
But
Having
It
Built
In
Can't
Hurt
You
Know
If
It's
Got
It
Built
In
And
I
Can
Use
A
Bluetooth
One
Then
You
Win
Position
You
Can
Have
Windows
Mobile
Code
Doing
All
Kinds
Of
Stuff
With
Spatial
Geometry
And
Doing
An
Average
Of
Their
Mean
Position
And
Saying
Yeah
I'm
Like
Right
Here
And
It's
Like
The
Most
Accurate
Position
Ever
Oh
Yeah
Differential
GPS
Phase
Coherent
Totally
It'll
Have
Everything
It'll
Be
Great
And
It'll
Be
Accurate
To
The
Angstrum
Sorry
Millie
Angstrum
Millie
Angstrum
Ooh
Anyway
Let's get
To
The
Show
Topic
So
Tonight's
Topic
As
We
Mentioned
Is
Not
About
You
Know
Not
Theory
Cell
Phone
Woes
I
Think
We
Always
Manage
To
Talk
About
This
Every
Show
You
Shown
Up
In
I
Know
It's
Because
I
Don't
Like
Talking
On
The
Phone
Most
Of
The
Time
I'm
Getting
Better
At
It
I
Don't
Like
Checking
My
Voicemail
I
Always
Just
Hate
When
The
Phone
Rings
Yet
I
Have
So
Many
Phones
It's
Insane
I
Can't
Stop
Buying
Them
I
Am
An
Addict
It
Is
Awful
I'm
An
Addict
Of
Something
I
Don't
Even
Like
I
Am
Not
Theory
And
I'm
A
Cellphone
Addict
I'm
Not
Theory
Anyway
Our
Main
Topic
Tonight
Is
Yeah
So
What
Is
Ruby
On
Rails
Ruby
On
Rails
Is
An
Open
Source
As
Always
You
Know
Because
Everything
Cool
Is
Open
Source
It's
A
Web
Application
Framework
And
It's
Written
In
A
Programming
Language
Called
Ruby
And
Ruby
Is
A
It's
A
Scripting
Language
And
It's
Actually
I
Didn't
Actually
Write
This
Down
And
I'm
Kicking
Myself
For
It
Now
It
Was
Developed
In
Japan
Do
You
Know
This
Yeah
Developed
In
Japan
I
Don't
Know
What
Year
It
Was
But
I
Think
It
Was
Late
Nineties
Late
Nineties
It's
A
Very
New
Language
And
It's
Really
Taken
Off
And
There's
No
Conventions
And
There's
Ruby
Programmers
Out
There
That
Hate
Perl
And
Python
As
Much
As
Everyone
Else
Like
You
Know
They
Have
Their
Own
Zealots
And
It's
Apparently
It's
A
Pretty
Solid
Scripting
Language
And
People
Are
Impressed
By
It
And
It's
Kind
Of
Taking
Off
And
What
Ruby
On
Rails
Is
It's
A
Ruby
Language
Well
It
Is
The
Language
Is
Ruby
But
It's
A
It's
A
Framework
That
Follows
The
Model
View
Controller
Architecture
And
If
You
Don't
Know
What
MVC
Is
I
Really
Don't
Feel
Like
Explaining
On
The
Show
So
Just
Go
To
Wikipedia
Heck
Go
Look
On
Basically
It's
A
Very
Structured
Way
Of
Developing
Web
Applications
And
It
Strives
For
Simplicity
And
Allowing
For
Applications
To
Be
Deloved
And
Just
A
Small
Amount
Of
Code
And
Just
Less
Time
And
Effort
And
Everything
Else
For
A
Just
Bang
Out
An
Application
For
Some
Type
Of
Web
Application
The
Ruby
Language
Itself
It
Allows
For
A
Lot
Of
Metaprogramming
And
Everything
You
Know
And
It
Reels
Really
Takes
Advantage
Of
It
What
Basically
It
Results
In
A
Syntax
Of
Many
Users
Find
To
Be
Very
Readable
As
Say
For
Example
Compared
To
Perl
Or
Python
For
That
Matter
Heck
We
Can
Even
Talk
About
Brain
Fuck
Oh
Man
Nice
Or
Be
Fung
Be
Fung
Is
My
Favorite
I
Don't
I
Don't
Look
At
Funge
Oh
It's
B
F
U
N
G
E
Look
It
Up
It's
Great
I
Have
To
Look
At
That
And
They
Have
Their
Own
Package
Distribution
System
And
In
Order
To
Install
Ruby
On
Rails
You
Do
Install
Ruby
And
You
Run
These
Ruby
Strips
And
Something
Called
It's
The
Program
Is
Ruby
Gems
They
Really
Take
This
Whole
You
Know
Hey
Our
Name
Is
Based
On
A
Bunch
Of
Shiny
Rocks
To
A
Whole
New
Level
Yeah
Ruby
On
Rails
Is
Basically
A
Subset
Of
Ruby
And
It's
Developed
Through
It's
Distributed
Through
Various
Ruby
Packages
You
Can
Sell
So
Why
Does
Ruby
On
Rails
Rock
So
Hard
I'm
Going
To
Let
You
Take
This
One
Because
You've
Actually
Had
Success
In
Developing
With
It
And
Not
Completely
Cursing
The First
Coins
Okay
Fair
Enough
Ruby
On
Rails
Rocks
Because
You
Can
Develop
Things
Very
Quickly
Basically
You
Give
It
A
Little
Bit
Of
Information
About
Your
Database
And
You
Write
A
Very
Tiny
Little
Bit
Of
Code
And
Then
You
Make
Some
Very
Simple
Template
That
Stuffs
All
Your
Data
Into
The
Page
And
Boom
You've
Got
An
Application
In
Five
Minutes
And
A
Lot
Of
The
Demos
That
They
Say
Oh
Here's
How
You
Can
Make
A
Blog
Engine
In
10
Minutes
And
Here's
How
You
Can
Add
News
On
To
Your
Blog
Engine
Or
Comment
On
To
Your
Blog
Engine
In
8.2
Seconds
Stuff
Like
That
So
It's
Really
Quick
To
Get
A
Lot
Of
Things
Done
And
Not
Just
Simple
Things
There
Are
You
Can
Write
Big
Applications
And
Save
Yourself
A
Oscar
6
Whoa
Yes
All right
Quickly
Tiny
URL
That
Because
I
Just
Stuffed
In
The
Note
As
What
I
Should
Have
Done
If
I
Over
Like
Stranded
For
Time
I
Should
Huge
URL
Something
And
Just
Read
It
Out
Over
The
Here
If
I
Stumble
Over
It
A
Couple
Times
It'll
Just
Take
Out
More
Time
And
People
Can
Complain
That
I
Have
No
Content
Because
I
Just
Giving
The
Link
Look
At
That
So
Anyway
I'm
Sorry
Anyway
Yeah
So
It's
Just
A
Very
Fast
Way
To
Develop
Applications
And
Very
Simple
And
I
Mean
That's
Really
All
I
Can
Say
About
It
I
Only
I
Only
Used
It
For
Maybe
Two
Or
Three
Weeks
Starting
To
Build
Things
Going
Through
The
Examples
People
Had
And
Actually
I
Got
A
Book
Called
I
Don't
Remember
It
Was
By
The
Pragmatic
Programmers
Group
I
Don't
Know
Their
Ruby
On
Rails
Book
I
Got
That
And
I
Started
Working
Through
They
Have
An
Application
That's
Like
A
Bookstore
And
Has
Shipping
And
Ordering
And
All
These
Things
And
As
You
Go
Through
The
Book
You
Piece
These
Things
together
And
It
Made
Sense
At
Some
Point
It
Seemed
Like
It
Started
Out
Very
Simple
And
Then
They
Started
To
Get
Very
Long
Winded
About
How
You
Should
Do
This
And
How
You
Can
Do
That
I
Just
I
Felt
Like
I
Started
To
Build
Templates
Upon
Templates
Forever
And
I
Slowly
Fizzled
Out
With
It
But
Then
I
Found
Out
Some
Really
Bad
Stuff
About
Ruby
On
Rails
And
Maybe
You
Should
Start
Out
The
Section
On
Why
Ruby
On
Rails
Sucks
And
We
Can
Expand
Upon
Well
I
Mean
Just
To
Expand
Upon
Why
It
Rocks
Basically
Like
If
You
Look
At
Some
Of
These
Screencasts
It
Basically
The
Weblog
And
Literally
This
Guy
Has
A
Basic
Weblog
Set
Up
From
Scratch
In
About
Oh
I
Think
It
Was
15
Minutes
It
Was
Basically
The
Video
Is
Time
For
15
Minutes
And
By
The
End
He
Has
A
Completely
Working
Weblog
System
You
Can
Submit
Stories
You
Can
Submit
Comments
To
The
Stories
And
Post
It
And
All
Kind
Of
Stuff
It
Was
Very
Impressive
And
Back
When
Not
Theory
Was
Going
Through
His
Ruby
On
Rails
Love
Phase
He
Was
Like
Oh
You
Need
To
Check
This
Out
And
I
Sat
Down
During
My
Lunch
Break
One
Day
And
I
Downloaded
It
And
I
Looked
At
It
And
I
Was
Like
Wow
Okay
This
Is
Pretty
Impressive
And
Basically
Everything
Ruby
On
Rails
Is
Very
Much
Database
Driven
And
What
It
Is
You
Start
Out
And
You
Run
The
Ruby
On
Rails
Server
And
The
Dev
Environment
Is
Completely
Self
Contained
You
Can
Run
It
On
Your
Laptop
And
You
Can
Develop
Your
Web
Server
At
Some
Point
But
You
Can
Have
All
Your
Development
Stuff
On
To
Your
Laptop
And
You
Say
Okay
Create
A
Database
Now
Here
Have
A
Bunch
Of
Columns
For
It
And
Basically
You
Create
Something
Called
A
Scaffold
And
Scaffold
Is
Basically
What
It
Exactly
Means
It
Is
A
Frame
It
Just
A
Light
Structure
For
You
To
Use
And
It
Knows
How
To
Use
Everything
And
What
It
Does
Is
When
You
Start
The
Server
Up
Again
It
Reads
All
Your
Database
Basically
It
Goes
In
Checks
Out
All
The
Different
Columns
The
Values
And
You
Tell
It
For
Every
Record
Display
My
Title
Display
This
Column
Here
Have
A
Way
To
Advance
A
Record
Here
Have
A
Drop
Down
Menu
Full
Of
The
Options
Of
Another
Table
Over
Here
And
It
Pretty
Cool
And
Basically
In
About
It
Creates
A
Lot
Of
Stuff
For
You
And
In
About
Six
Or
Seven
Lines
Of
Code
You
Can
Have
Something
That
Would
Take
Me
You
Know
30
Or
50
Lines
Of
Code
To
Write
In
A
PHP
Script
I
Think
That's
Fair
To
Say
So
It's
Very
Simple
To
Use
And
As
Long
As
You
As
Long
As
You
Give
It
What
It
Expect
I
Guess
That's
Kind
Of
We're
Going
To
Say
Like
You
Know
When
I
Say
What
It
Expect
So
We'll
Cover
This
And
Why
It
Sucks
So
You
Know
Why
Does
Ruby
On
Rails
Suck
I
Think
This
Episode
Is
Going
To
Turn
Off
Everybody
On
Ruby
On
Rails
Yeah
Ruby
On
Rails
Takes
The
Relational
Data
Out
Of
The
Relational
Database
Management
System
Basically
It
Understands
Tables
Well
It
Understands
Columns
Well
But
It
Really
You
Know
It
Takes
Relations
Are
Second
Class
Citizens
They
You
Know
They
Shove
Them
Into
The
Corner
They
You
Know
Put
Them
Into
The
Little
Homeless
Shelter
For
Relational
For
Relations
And
They
Just
Move
Along
And
It
It's
Stupid
You
Know
Rails
Isn't
Smart
Enough
To
Look
At
My
Databases
You
Know
It
It's
Smart
Enough
To
Look
At
All
My
Database
You
Build
Here's
How
To
Access
It
And
Here's
How
You
Want
To
Do
Certain
Things
But
I
Can
Create
Records
I
Can
Edit
Records
I
Can
Update
Records
And
I
Need
To
Write
Like
Five
Lines
Of
Codes
As
Long
As
I
Don't
Leave
The
Damn
Table
And
It
Really
Can't
Handle
When
I
Move
Over
To
Different
Tables
And
Really
They
Basically
Just
Tell
Me
Don't
Even
Look
Outside
The
Table
It's
Stupid
If
Rails
Is
Taking
A
Latex
Glove
To
My
Database
Schema
How
About
Feeling
Up
Those
Four
And
Key
Constraints
That
I
Set
Up
It's
Kind
Of
A
Good
Hint
On
How
To
Arrange
Has
Many
And
Belongs
To
Associations
Right
And
I
Totally
Agree
And
I
Read
The
Rational
As
To
Why
It
Doesn't
Do
That
And
The
Rational
To
Me
Was
Ridiculous
Made To
Any
Particular
Database
Backend
So
They
Want
To
Have
Like
The
Smallest
Subset
They
Can
Of
Database
Features
That
Every
Database
Has
Now
They
Were
Talking
About
Using
Some
I
Forget
Exactly
Which
Database
It
Was
Some
Flat
File
Database
I
Used
Flat
File
Database
That
Was
A
Really
Loose
Term
Because
Flat
Files
Aren't
Databases
But
It
Was
Some
Like
Text
Based
Database
That
Didn't
Have
Constraints
So
They
Said
Well
If
We
Going
Interoperate
With
This
We
Won't
Be
Able
To
Pull
Foreign
Key
Constraints
Out
Of
It
So
Why
Should
We
Do
It
For
Anybody
Which
Is
Stupid
You
Know
What
People
Like
My
SQL
And
They
Like
Postgres
And
They
Like
Real
Databases
Why
Don't
You
Use
Those
Set
Of
Features
They
All
Have
Foreign
Keys
They
All
Have
A
Million
Different
Things
It's
Wonderful
For
Like
If
You're
Not
Trying
To
Use
That
Kind
Of
Stuff
But
At
The
Same
Point
There
Is
A lot
Of
Web
Applications
That
Do
Require
That
And
It's
Very
Handy
For
Enforcing
Constraints
And
Security
On
To
The
Database
Level
But
Like
We
Just
Said
No
We
Can't
Do
That
And
If
You
Have
A
Database
Where
The
Only
Interface
Is
Ruby
On
Rails
Then
You
Can
Just
Ignore
Foreign
Key
Constraints
And
All
That
Other
Kind
Of
Stuff
And
Just
Do
It
With
Has
Many
Or
Has
One
Or
Whatever
Of
It's
Kind
Of
You
Names
They
Have
You
Can
Do
It
With
All
That
And
Let
Ruby
Maintain
It
For
You
But
Honestly
You
Should
Let
Your
Database
Maintain
Itself
Otherwise
Why
Do
Have
The
Database
Exactly
Another
Reason
Why
Ruby
On
Rails
Blog
In
15
Minutes
The
Cool
Thing
About
The
Guy
Is
I
Don't
Know
I
Actually
Think
He's
A
Guy
Who
Invented
Rails
Although
I'm
Not
Sure
Every
Three
Seconds
Or
So
You
Notice
That
He
Says
Oh
Whoops
And
He
Changes
Some
Type
Of
Magical
Incantation
In
His
Text
Editor
And
Bam
The
Application
Changes
I
Have
To
Say
His
Accent
When
He
Says
Whoops
Is
Just
Crack
Up
Anyway
Whoops
So
But
Three or
Four
Times
During
The
Demo
He's
Doing
Something
He
Does
Something
And
He
Changes
Some
Type
Of
Thing
And
It
Gives
Him
This
Huge
Error
Page
Death
To
All
Your
Family
And
It's
Mostly
When
He
Tried
To
Update
His
Database
Schema
Or
Model
Or
Some
Other
Thing
And
It
Doesn't
Work
Because
What
The
Dev
Environment
Has
To
Do
Is
It
Has
To
Reboot
It
Has
When
It
Reboots
It
Takes
That latex
Glove
Again
And
It
Goes
Check
Everything
Out
Now
When
It
Started
Up
And
You
Change
Something
In
The
Database
You're
Hosed
It
Needs
To
Reread
Everything
And
If
It
See
Something
Has
Changes
It
Doesn't
Want
To
Roll
Out
Of
Bed
So
That
Requirement
Is
Really
Stupid
When
You
Want
To
Try
To
Say
Oh
Rapidly
Applicate
Rapidly
Develop
An
Application
Like
Ruby
On
Rails
Claims
That
It
It's
Designed
To
Do
So
You
Know
I
Understand
Why
It
Has
To
Do
This
Because
Basically
If
It
Had
To
Do
This
With
Every
Query
There
Would
Be
Some
Serious
Performance
It
Like
It
Would
Be
As
Fast
As
Microsoft
Windows
But
Having
To
Reboot
The
Server
Is
Just
It
Feels
Stupid
Compared
To
Perl
PHP
Some
Other
Things
They
Have
So
I
Don't
Know
It
Just
It's
Annoying
I
Tend
To
Agree
So
You
Were
Talking
About
A
Book
Here
But
Well
Why
Don't
You
Talk
About
The
Manuals
For
Ruby
On
Rails
Well
Basically
You
Can't
Read
The
Backing
Manual
Because
There
Is
No
Backing
Manual
Oh
Man
Sorry
I
Had
To
Rip
That
Off
Directly
From
You
Yeah
You
Know
I
Never
Even
I
Never
Even
Really
Think
About
Reading
Manuals
Most
Of
The
Time
So
It
Never
Struck
Me
That
There
Wasn't
A
Manual
Because
I'm
Always
Into
Reading
Examples
But
Yeah
I
Guess
It
Really
Doesn't
Have
A
Manual
I
Mean
This
Pragmatic
Ruby
On
Rails
Or
Something
It's
Called
I
Don't
Remember
Exactly
But
That
Actually
Sounds like
The
Right
Title
Yeah
Well
It
Was
Developed
By
People
That
Were
Very
Heavily
Into
This is how everything works. Here's all the inputs you can give to it. And this is actually how everything happens. And that's very handy. So, I mean, basically, they kind of touted the book that, you know, it's Pragmatical PHP or Pragmatical Ruby on Rails or whatever the heck they call it.
And it's – they do this, you know, it's a free framework. They do this free video demo, a bunch of free tutorials. But, you know, I'm willing to have to shell out $35 for a book. And I – is it cheap? I know they have a PDF, and I don't remember how cheaper it is.
You know, I think the PDF is like $20, and then the book is like $35.
Yeah. So, I mean, I really don't want to pay to have, like, you know, a page basically, you know, read a manual for a framework. I want to have something – if you're going to develop something free, put it in.
You know, just invest some time. Documentation isn't fun, but, hell, you've got to do it if you have a job.
Right. But the book, they don't try to say it's like documentation. They try to say it's a tutorial, and it's a tutorial that shows you how to build a big application.
So, it's not really documentation like you would expect. So, that's how they justify getting people to pay for it.
Hey, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Yeah, well.
Anyway.
Let's see.
I'm trying to play devil's advocate here, man. Add some variety.
Eh, I guess. I don't know.
I personally – I think we'll just try to wrap it up toward the end with the various reasons why we kind of gave up on Rails.
Also, getting back to – I mean, coming back kind of to the, oh, it doesn't check foreign key constraints and all that kind of stuff.
It doesn't actually – it knows which column, like, you know, say it's a varchar of 40 characters or it's an 11-bit integer, but it doesn't actually do anything with this information.
Like, for example, if I have a character that's – a character field that's 40 characters long, and I tell it, okay, pop this 80, you know, character string in there.
Like, for example, if I tried to do this in Microsoft SQL Server, it would yell at me.
Like, if I do this in MySQL – I actually haven't tested this on Postgres.
Perhaps this actually works on it.
It just pops it right in there, and it trims it, or truncates, I believe is the proper term.
Not good.
It's the worst thing we can do.
Yes, no.
Very bad.
So –
Postgres will not do that.
Postgres will not do that?
I believe in certain constraints MySQL won't do that either, but with Ruby on Rails, apparently it does.
And also getting back to the lack of documentation, Ruby on Rails has all these wonderful little rules that you're supposed to do.
And if you sit down and start looking at certain things and the rules start to become apparent for you, but there's no giant – I guess you could call it, like, you know, laundry list of the rules and what you're supposed to do.
And, like, you know, say, you know, you're supposed to always name your tables in the plural form of, you know, models are always named singular, controllers are plural, at least in some cases.
And there's – this is very annoying for someone like myself who comes along and says, oh, Ruby on Rails, this looks pretty cool.
And I try to start playing with it, and I just fall flat on my face trying to figure out all these stupid rules that no one has documented anywhere.
It was very annoying.
And, like I said, like, if you start and you sit down and you start pulling apart other people's code and you start, like, looking for certain things, you say, oh, look at that.
All of the table names are named in the plural.
So I guess that kind of means something magical.
But it's just, oh, God.
And also with, like, you know, certain configurations for a particular Rails package, you can – there's, like, four or five different ways of actually, you know, telling it to, you know, use your configuration environment.
And they have actually documented this.
You can actually Google certain portions of this.
And it's a bit of a – if you're just getting to starting on Ruby on Rails, you know, don't – this really won't be much of an issue.
But say, for example, if you have something that's already written in Ruby and you want to try to port it to Ruby on Rails, just don't even bother.
And basically, one of the examples I saw was there was, like, basically six or seven ways to do this.
And one application that I saw online needed to actually have four of these in various different places of it.
And it was kind of annoying.
And also, if you ever tried to – I, you know, I wrote a little, you know, basic Ruby on Rails package.
And I wanted to see how hard it would be to deploy this to a production server.
Yeah, that took me about, you know, four or five days of, you know, reading and configuring, trying to get Apache to work with it.
And apparently, the people on – Ruby on Rails people really like light HTTPD.
I don't know why.
They apparently have some type of love affair with it.
But – and a lot of their stuff is there.
And if you actually want to try to get this working on, say, a popular web server like Apache, because, you know, Lord knows no one uses Apache.
It's an adventure.
It really is.
So, that's seven reasons why Ruby on Rails sucks.
Seven pretty good reasons, I think.
Yes.
I don't know.
I was very excited about it when I first saw it.
Really excited.
I went around.
Everybody, I was like, this is the coolest thing.
People are going to stop using PHP.
Like, I really thought that this was going to change things for the better.
But, honestly, after seeing all this and reading an article, I have to find the URL and post it somewhere.
There's an article by IBM talking about how to make something very similar to ActiveRecord that will read your database schema in PHP and do magic getters and setters and create, update, and delete,
and insert functions for you with no configuration.
Once I read that, I was like, you know what, I think I'm going to go back to PHP.
Just forget about Ruby on Rails.
Well, apparently now there's PHP kind of Ruby on Rails-like frameworks.
But, really, Ruby on Rails has left a bad enough taste in my mouth that I'm really not interested in going to try it.
Because my major complaint is, you know, well, basically, you know, Not Theory came up to me online and started saying, man, have you seen this Ruby on Rails?
This stuff is pretty cool.
And this was, you know, like I said, this was during his love phase.
And, you know, he sent me a couple of links, and I checked it out, and like I said, I sat down, I checked it out during my lunch break,
I saw a little screencast, and the guy, you know, writing the weblog application, I was like, wow, this looks pretty sweet.
I'm going to have to check this out.
So, you know, I sat down, I plotted it down, and I was like, okay, let me see how long it would take me to re-implement YAPL,
yet another payphone list, YAPL.org, check it out today, into, you know, Ruby on Rails.
And let's see how it runs, and let's see how it plays.
So, my first major stumbling block was this whole, all the rule sets, like, you know, you're supposed to name certain things this way.
I had an existing database schema.
Like, for example, you know, I have, you know, phones underscore, country name underscore, and there's like, you know, four or five different little tables I use.
And they mean various things, and they use them for, and all of this makes perfect sense to me.
Of course, it doesn't matter if it makes sense to someone else, because, hell, I'm the developer.
So, I had all my databases lined out, and Ruby on Rails did not want to use this.
And I eventually figured out all these rules, like, I was supposed to name certain tables plural, and certain keys singular.
And I eventually sat down and started trying it, and I got a very small subset of the database working with it,
but it was such a mess afterwards that it was just like, oh, no thank you.
So, I basically just, that's what killed it for me.
I was like, ooh, no way.
Yeah, I think that in some places their style of doing things can make sense,
but it's not what you're used to, and they're forcing you to do it.
You know, people aren't going to want to bother with that.
The term that popped to mind, and I actually remember this from the New Hacker's Dictionary,
was a bondage and discipline language.
Like, you will do it this way, no matter what you say.
I had not heard that before.
Yeah.
I believe they used to refer to Pascal like that.
So, you were actually going to try to implement Bell's Mind on Ruby on Rails, correct?
Yeah, and I started to, and I ran out of time, and then I happened to cross this article by,
I think it was with one of the guys who created Ruby on Rails.
And I read something about how he thought that store procedures were ridiculous and old-school database thinking
and all this other kind of stuff, and that's when I said, hmm, let me kind of re-evaluate this
before I spend any more time on it.
And sure enough, didn't do the things I wanted to do, so I scrapped it.
And now Bell's Mind is wonderfully rewritten, and just look at all these new...
Oh, wait.
Dammit, I can't win.
No, you can't.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
One of these days, if I magically become a millionaire, Bell's Mind's going to get a lot of work done to it,
because I'll just be able to relax and work on it all day.
Oh, seriously.
My dream is I'm going to win the lottery, and I'm going to hire you, and I'm going to hire a bunch of other people,
and we're just going to sit around and do fun projects all day.
That sounds like a plan to me.
Yeah, I'm going to go rent this little storefront out in Boston, and just get this really big thing,
and you can just watch the hackers work on crazy things.
Yeah.
Watch us own this box in Russia.
Woo-hoo!
And you've got to have a tap.
You've got to have a full bar in the place.
I'll be rich.
Why not?
Of course.
Of course, the tap will have to be turned off at some point, because if the tap isn't turned off,
I don't think we'll do anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm just saying, you know, we'll need it sometimes.
Certain days of the week, certain hours, something like that.
Maybe just for lunch.
How about that?
We'll be like little hamsters going up to the tap and going dun-dun-dun.
There you go.
It'll be a wonderful thing for animal psychology, except it'll be on humans.
No, you just need to get one of those bottles that hangs from the ceiling that drips beer right into my mouth.
That's what I want.
I'm not sure how it would do with carbonation.
That's a question.
Yeah, that would be tricky.
But you know what?
You'd be a freaking millionaire.
You'd pay somebody to do it for you.
Exactly.
I'm a millionaire.
I don't care about it.
Just do it.
Just make it happen.
I'm just going to throw money at the problem.
It's going to go away.
Quick, hire some consultants.
Oh, God.
Oh, my God.
Give more money to our consultants.
They're spending it as fast as they can, sir.
Consultants.
Let's not get into that.
Anyway, so Ruby on Rails, I've got to say, it works.
It does an excellent job for certain things, and there's a lot of neat hacks out there for it.
But at the same point, it's very finicky.
I guess that's the best kind of way to describe it.
It's finicky.
You need to do it its way.
That's what you do.
If you ever want to...
Yeah, exactly.
If you ever want to go write stuff in Ruby on Rails, just play Frank Sinatra's My Way during the entire thing,
and just picture your computer singing to you.
It's so romantic.
Exactly.
I did it in my way.
It's been rev idle.
Oh, my God.
That's the worst idea ever.
I think we should get Stank Dog.
I have Stank Dog sung before, and I believe we had a solo by Strom one day.
That's true.
We could assemble the Bin Rev Radio classic hits album.
No, we need to decide who is going to be the judges on this show.
I figure you're the best one.
Uh-oh.
That was lame.
I'm going to go buy a cell phone.
I will be the Hacks or what's the name?
Simon something or other.
Simon...
Cowell or something.
Crowell?
Cowell.
Yeah, I think Cowell.
That's it.
Okay.
So, like, email your suggestions to RadioBinRev.com.
Or, not suggestions, but answers.
All you American Idol fans.
I always refer to him as that guy.
Yeah, I think Simon Cowell's right.
Unless that's the guy who is the announcer.
I don't know.
No, no, the announcer's that really weird guy, Ryan.
Ryan?
Yeah.
That could be.
God, now I'm going to have to actually go to the website or something.
Damn you.
Yep, now you're going to look it up, and then you're going to know it, and I won't, and it'll
be great.
Yeah, I'll be like I having you.
I'll be like calling you in the middle of the night.
Dude, it's Simon Cowell.
Oh, God.
If you call me in the middle of the night tonight, I'm going to be very upset, because I've got
to be up at 4.30 in the morning.
Got to go in on your call, Stream 5, go fly out.
Yeah, you know, I just got to go fly around the country.
Buy a major corporation?
Yeah.
I think I'm buying Microsoft.
I think it's a good move, so I can just shut them down.
Dude, Vista sucks.
Cancel it.
Everyone's using NT4 from here on out.
Yeah, you know what?
I would bring back Windows 95.
Why not?
I actually had to use Windows 98 a while ago, and I can't believe I once used it.
It was just so amazing how bad it was.
Yeah, you know, I got my parents a new computer, and they wanted me to move some data from their
old computer, which was Windows 98, to their new computer.
And I was appalled at how terrible Windows 98 was.
Like, I couldn't even hook up my external drive to move the files back and forth.
It's like, nope, I don't recognize it.
Do you have a driver's CD?
I'm like, no, it's just a USB storage device.
Just use it, you piece of crap.
And it's like, yeah, I don't think so.
No, I don't understand it.
No, my thing was, I tried to install a network card, and it just, it didn't work.
And I was just like, oh.
Yep, Windows 98 just says, K-thanks, bye.
Came over.
Ends of the blue screen.
Yep.
All right.
So, yes, you know, Ruby on Rails, we're not trying to completely knock on this.
We tried to actually find some positive things about it, but if you go to any, like, online
article or try to do some research into it, there's basically, like, you know, two or three
examples they use, and that's about it.
There's, like, no type of major in-depth, you know, review of why Ruby on Rails is so
freaking cool.
It's just like, look, you can do all this stuff really, really quick.
And I'm like, okay.
Look.
Really, really quick.
Whatever.
Yeah, at some point, that all wears off, and you're like, you know what?
Not everything happens quickly.
There's some applications that take time to develop, and that's what it needs to know
how to do.
Exactly.
I need to go.
Yeah, I think that really sums it up right there.
You know, you need to eventually get beyond the scaffolding into the full-blown
application.
You've got to start laying bricks and building serious stuff.
And for me, I found that Ruby on Rails made that difficult, especially when I had an
application that needed to have two interfaces, you know, a Ruby on Rails, you know, front
end and something else on the back end.
And it just was not friendly.
Nope.
All right.
Let's see announcements.
So I'll continue announcing HOPE, which is – this isn't on their webpage, but if
you're thinking about doing a presentation for HOPE, the deadline for the presentations
is May 16th, I believe it is.
Let me go up the calendar and see.
Well, perhaps it's May 16th.
I don't know.
Maybe it's May 13th.
I'm unsure.
Anyway, it's mid-May.
That's when it is.
So, you know, get it before May 13th, and you'll definitely be safe.
I don't think they have this up on their webpage, but I got an email announcement from
their mailing list saying, oh, you know, if you know anybody, you might want to tell
them this.
So I'm telling this to all of you because I'm a nice guy.
And if you're going to HOPE, it's July 21st through 23rd, Hotel Pennsylvania, New York
City.
Come on down.
And then DEF CON shortly after?
Yeah, DEF CON.
I don't – actually, yeah, shoot, we should actually talk about DEF CON.
I'm not going to DEF CON this year.
Oh, man.
Yeah, I'm going to HOPE.
Are you going to DEF CON?
Are you even going to HOPE?
I don't even know.
You know, that's a tough call.
I don't know yet.
You might be flying around your Gulfstream.
Yeah.
HOPE is pretty much in the bag.
HOPE is pretty much locked down.
I don't have to go very far to get there.
But DEF CON is a maybe.
A maybe.
Oh, okay.
If I quit my job, then definitely.
I mean, yeah, if you win the lottery, again, we'll have the millionaires and we'll go to
HOPE, DEF CON, Carolina CON.
What else is there?
Carolina CON?
I haven't even heard of.
How's this new this year?
Has it happened already or is it happening in June?
I mean, I've been trying to announce them, but it's actually not in my template this
year, so it's Temptate this week, though.
Yeah, I think it's like Carolina CON.org.
And it's, oh yeah, no, June 9th and 10th in Raleigh.
9141, I think.
Or 9149.
I don't know.
Who do you have shouts for?
I can't really think of anybody.
I'm sorry.
I'm really tired.
I can't think of anybody who's shouts to, so I'll have to wait until next time.
I know.
All right.
I'll send shouts.
I'll send shouts out to Sprint for having a half-decent access plan for their pocket
PC phones as opposed to Verizon.
It just sucks.
Yep.
Email radio at binrev.com.
Closing music tonight is In Memory of Sir Anthony by Disciple of the Mix, and that's
on ocremix.org.
And, as always, we will see you next week.
Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
Same hack.
I'll send you all.
Bye.
I'll send you all new.
Whoa.
See you next week.
Bye.
I'll send you all.
Bye.
Thank you.