This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
and a fag pwned.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattling your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones.
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the craters.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANS, SIFs, SIFs.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.
Hello once again everyone to Binary Revolution Radio episode number 168.
Coming to you on October 10th, 2006.
10-10-2006.
A couple days before, I believe, this Friday will be a Friday the 13th.
Maybe? No? I'm not sure about that.
But anyway, we will get on with this week's show.
And we have a good returning guest this week.
And not only a returning guest, a returning co-host on the show.
But last week we announced one of our new DDP members, Verbal.
And our second new DDP member, also coming in at the same time,
is our good friend Savant, who is on the show with us tonight.
Welcome, my friend.
Hello. Hey, man. How's it going?
Let's do the whole show in those voices.
Hello! Welcome to the show!
DDP Hack Radio!
That would be the most annoying show ever.
I'd probably have to kill myself within the first 20 minutes.
Oh, no! You shouldn't do that!
Wait a minute, I don't know where I am.
Okay!
That would be spiffy!
Alright, anyway.
I can hear the hate mail already.
Oh, well, believe me, you better get used to hate mail in part of this.
It comes with a gig, man. It comes with a gig.
Anyway, so, yeah, let's do a little kind of our housekeeping up front here.
Did you have anything you wanted to go over?
I know I've got one little thing, but...
Yeah, real quick, just wanted to say thanks.
Glad to be a part of the team.
And I've got a lot of ideas that I've been working on, but I'm pretty scatterbrained.
So I'm going to have to fight down and just pick one.
And I'd love to talk to Not Theory about what he's doing with the radio show and try and
see if we can't streamline it a bit.
But, you know, other than that, if we do our jobs correctly, then you guys should know
that things are running smoother.
Yeah, and actually, that can definitely be arranged.
Not Theory and I have been trying to get together and work on some things.
And as a matter of fact, I think that was him that just called my cell phone.
We're just starting the show.
And of course, the moment we start the show, my cell phone rings.
So luckily it was on Vibrate.
Nobody would know the difference except that I brought it up.
But anyway, we'll get together with him.
And he's got some things he wants to test on his box.
And I know you've got some things on your box that we wanted to test.
So we're going to be doing some cool things in the future as far as both of those items go.
Let's see.
What else did I want to talk about?
Oh, I went through somehow this weekend.
I don't know how, but I finally got a little bit of free time to work on updating the gallery.
We switched gallery software packages a while back.
I backed up all the images from the old folders and dumped them into a big gallery or big folder, for lack of a better word,
in the new gallery software called Unsorted.
And I just haven't had time to really go through them and clean them up yet.
So I finally had time to do that this weekend.
So I started on it.
I went through – now here's the problem is all the comments and stuff like that from the old software packages
because we went through a couple different ones that all had their little problems.
So we lost all the comments and owners of the photos and stuff like that.
So first thing, go through the gallery, browse through them.
And if you see some of the pictures that are out there that are yours or you deserve credit on
or you know who they are, please let me know.
Post a comment under that picture so I know who it is because right now they're all uploaded as admin,
as the owner, which is fine, but I'd like to give credit where credit is due, of course.
So please let me know as you do that.
And feel free to start uploading some more of the image.
I also reorganized the overall structure quite a bit.
I created a bunch of subfolders.
I got rid of some of the main folders that really didn't seem like they were necessary.
So I tried to reorganize it and make it a little bit cleaner and a little bit easier to find where things could and should go.
So take advantage of the gallery.
Upload your stuff to it and put some – there's a couple of threads in the Photoshop – GIMP Photoshop forum of some contests and stuff that we've got going on,
which is cool, so you can use the gallery to host those.
You don't have to go out there and hacksaw the photo bucket to make that happen, another very popular thread on our forums right now.
Have you been watching that one, by the way?
Yeah, oh, definitely.
Yeah, that's getting quite a few hits.
I wonder why.
The Googler is coming in from that.
So that's all I had for housekeeping.
So that being said, let's move on to our email section.
Our first email this week comes from G-O-9.
That's G-E-O-N-I-N-E.
Not G-E-O and the number nine because that just wouldn't make sense at all, now would it?
G-O-9 says, Dear BinRev, During a recent show – I think it was one of the double-header shows – someone wrote in and asked about web-maced email encryption.
You might point them towards hushmail.com, as if I remember right.
I haven't used it in a while.
It has some sort of fancy JavaScript encryption engine that works pretty well.
It's free with limited storage as long as the account does not sit idle for more than two weeks.
The HTTPS mail Google link that IMGeek pointed out is probably easier, though, which is tight as hell, by the way.
Also, I had a few comments for the show you guys did on phishing recently.
Oh, ho, ho, ho.
Believe you were on that episode, weren't you?
My girlfriend was nearly scammed with the old 419 a few weeks ago from a typical scam originating on eBay.
Well, but which was it?
Was it a phish or was it eBay?
Well, let's – I don't know.
Let's keep reading.
I don't know here.
Let's see.
Insert kick in the nuts here, yeah.
Luckily, the USPS was actually able to snag her $800 gold watch before it left Seattle and return it to her promptly.
After poking around for a little while, I noticed that in one of the seven emails they had exchanged using broken-ass English,
he had forgot to route through his favorite Israeli proxy.
I don't know if you will read these on the air, but if anyone wants to poke around, this subnet has a few things on it.
And no, we're not going to drop that on the air because, you know what, there's trouble you can get into on your end of things too.
So I know you may feel justified, but the legal system might not agree with that.
Let's see.
Enough of that, though.
What I also wanted to mention was something about the nature of these 419 scams.
Yeah, we're going to come back to that because you hit the nail on the head earlier, Savant.
But I'll just – let's wait until we finish the email here.
Where was I?
I know that BivRevsteer is clear of politics, and for this I am glad, but it was mentioned in that episode that these scams were carried out based on some sort of spite for the Western world.
I am pretty sure that this is not entirely the case.
A co-worker of mine who reigns from Nigeria, who was also noticeably uncomfortable when I merely mentioned the 419, told me that it's a huge embarrassment for the whole country, and they have raised the minimum jail time to five years for anyone caught and prosecuted under the 419 in an attempt to bring back some respect to the country.
Whether or not anyone is actually ever prosecuted is probably another story, though.
Food for thought, though, I guess.
Keep up the good work with the show.
Last four or five eps have been kick-ass.
I usually listen to the show at work in my cab at night, and it's always funny as hell to see the people's response when they hear what I am listening to.
I had to turn it off last week when some Mexican family jumping in my cab, and Stank was going off about $70,000 – oh, that was the – I know what he's talking about, the –
That stupid screaming –
That's pretty funny.
Oh, man, I would have killed for the pictures of the video of the reaction to that.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, maybe he's on Taxicab Confessions and he's got it on video.
Yeah, maybe.
That would be neat.
All right, many laters, G09.
Also, what's up with the zine?
I'd love to help out if you guys are still doing it.
It's all about hitting the media on all levels.
The magazine, unfortunately, as much as I hate to admit it, is pretty much dead.
When we do release it, and it is well underway.
It's just the people that were doing the layout had some other things come up in real life and haven't had time to finish it.
But when we do release it, we have already decided we're going to release it as a free PDF to be downloaded from the site.
Maybe we'll print some off as well for people who do want the printed copy like me because I always like having a printed copy of magazines around.
But I think, all in all, we may just be out of the magazine business.
There's just so much work involved in the whole process from doing a lot of the writing, which we did a lot of the writing for the magazine.
We didn't get a whole lot of outside submissions.
The ones we got were good, but we didn't get a whole lot of outside submissions is what I'm trying to say.
And frankly, now with the magazine being so delayed as it is, I understand why people might not want to submit now either.
I mean, I probably wouldn't myself if I didn't have some confidence it was going to come out at some point in time.
So I understand that.
So we may just be out of the magazine business, but time will tell that.
Maybe if we get someone who has the layout experience and we can put the whole thing back together and be reliable with it again, then who knows what the future holds.
But for now, it's pretty much dead, unfortunately.
So that being out of the way, I think also you mentioned earlier in the email you mentioned Hushmail.
I know Rax has mentioned this on the show probably quite a while back, so it's certainly worth mentioning again.
But I know he liked Hushmail a lot, so that's definitely something for people to go check out if you're interested.
I myself have never used it, so I couldn't talk about the security of it or how well it works or anything like that.
I haven't really had the need because I have my own secure mail solution, so that's not an issue there.
And let me just also kind of mention – you mentioned the politics and how we don't go into politics on the show and whatnot.
Well, yes, that is true.
However, if it is something that relates directly, directly to the topic at hand, then sure, we'll definitely – we're not afraid to talk about it.
If it's something that will add to the conversation, add to the discussion or something like that, then we will certainly talk about it.
And I think – and this is one of those cases where it does a little bit, but we're not going to dwell on it.
We're not going to debate it.
We're not going to go into argument.
We're just going to mention that this may be the reason.
This is somewhat – sometimes associated with it.
Take it for what it's worth.
So that being the case, yeah, I think you actually – the way you worded it in your email – let me go back and look here for a second – was that – about how it's carried on some sort of spite for the Western world.
And you said that it is not entirely the case.
Well, no, it's not entirely the case.
But I do think that in some cases it is definitely a factor in the case.
So that's all we really said about it.
I mean I don't have a problem going into politics on that level.
As far as the 419, I've got to say – Samant questioned it while I was reading it, and I got the same thing.
I mean did you get caught up in a 419 – excuse me, your girlfriend.
Was this a – you mentioned eBay, but you said the 419.
Those are – am I misunderstanding this here?
Samant, what did you get out of that?
What was –
No, well, I think that reading between the lines, she may have been selling the watch
or was somehow trying to sell a watch.
I hope that he didn't talk her into just randomly sending her an $800 watch, or sending him rather.
But I think that this isn't a 419 scam per se.
Right.
The person involved may have been Nigerian, but this is not a typical 419 scam.
Yeah, and I kind of lean towards the same thing.
I think that this is just an – this is probably an eBay ripoff that came from Nigeria.
It came from a 419 number or something like that.
That's what my guess is, but yeah, absolutely.
Now, what do you think about this political aspect of the whole thing?
I mean I don't think that it's necessarily that they hate us, but I mean which country has the most rich people
that have the potential to get ripped off?
I think we're just a big target for them.
Yeah, definitely.
Although in attacks that I'm seeing and defacements and things like that online,
there's definitely more of a political slant with those people, with the attackers.
So I didn't mean to imply that everyone in Nigeria was a scammer,
just that the majority of these types of scams come from Nigeria and that the people who are perpetrating them
tend to also fit a psychological profile of having a beef with the western side of the world.
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's right.
I think hacking across the board, mostly defacements, you see a lot of political messages thrown up onto the defaced websites and stuff.
So yeah, the 419, I'm sure that there are people there that, you know, I don't think anybody really,
we know you didn't mean anything about the entire country of Nigeria.
I think that's well known.
So, thank you for the email there, G09.
And actually, here you go, just a little message for you.
I know you're out there working tonight, listening to the car, so everybody in the cab tonight,
yeah, I'm talking to you, you lazy fuckers in the back seat.
Why don't you go walk for a change, you fat fuck?
Why don't you put some lead to the, put your feet out on the pavement there and go work off some of that weight,
you fat, lazy American fuckers.
I mean, if you're going to at least get in the guy's cab, you better give him a fat fucking tip when you get out of the damn thing.
Otherwise, you can get the fuck out and walk your fat ass.
Show some fucking respect, that's a hard job.
Seriously, man, you think you're just fucking going to wait on you and then you're going to get out without tipping the guy?
Man, get your fucking greedy hands in your pockets and drop some coin on the man, you sloppy bitch.
All right, now, on to our next email from Cypress.
Hey, why don't you read this one while I get a drink now?
All right, man, hey, Tim, I'm going to read this really slowly for you this time.
Okay, this is from Cypress.
I love that you are continuing the show even after all the drama.
I never really said this, but I am glad that you are back into the scene.
A little bit overdue.
Anyway, on the last few shows, you kept saying that Macs are more expensive than PCs.
Although this may be true with some of the models, it is definitely not true for all of them.
I only know this for sure about the Mac Pro because there was a lot of hype there about that on to global interweb.
Here are some links to prove that, and I'm going to drop a tiny URL bomb on you guys.
So just assume that it's tinyurl.com.
He gives a couple links.
G3UNN is one.
P9G8P.
Another one is PFF44.
And he continues,
I hope I did not drive you all crazy with all those tiny URLs.
I'm not saying that you are not entitled to your opinion and to think that Apple sucks, with which I agree.
However, do check the facts before you rant.
I love the show, the DDP, and the forums.
Thank you and all the DDP for keeping it going.
Cool.
Well, thank you, Cypress, for the email.
Yeah, well, the listeners can go check out those tiny URLs and read about it themselves.
I did.
Thank you again for that, Cypress.
I didn't even realize that this was such a hot topic on the global interweb.
But I'm sorry.
I'm still going to disagree with you on this because – and everybody in these links that you sent,
and again, not personally or anything, but the comparison that I didn't realize had so much attention going on to me
is just a total red herring.
There is no validity to this comparison to me, at least in terms of what I'm talking about.
Maybe I need to clarify it, and that's what I'll try to do here.
But this thing is comparing a high-end $5,000 Mac Pro or whatever this thing is called.
We're talking about a $5,000 machine.
And when you're talking on that kind of scale, the choice of what machine you're going to buy
isn't based on financial aspects at that point.
And it's a choice of the software and the needs that you have for your business
and what you want the machine to do.
You know, debating and comparing the topic from this blog post that people are doing out there,
they're missing some simple facts.
What I'm referring to when I complain about the price of Apple hardware and Macs,
I'm talking about your common, normal, everyday, basic, simple machine
that a student, your parent, business people, anybody, just a normal person would buy.
That's what I'm talking about.
I'm not talking about comparing whether a $5,000 Dell server or, excuse me, a $5,000 Mac
but the Dell equivalent $6,000.
You know what?
I'm not talking about that, and I don't think very few people are.
We're talking about the normal machines that they're pushing,
and the stuff they're pimping in the Mac stores, you know, up in the displays and stuff like that.
People aren't going in there to buy $5,000 Mac Pros.
That's not the issue.
I'm talking about the low-end.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.
I'm talking about a low-end generic computer, whether it be a PC or a laptop,
because quite frankly, these days, prices and power of machines,
you can really buy a low-end machine.
You can get a low-end Celeron 2-something gigahertz or a P4 2.4, 2.8,
it's going to run just about any damn thing you want to do other than, like, high-end gaming and stuff like that.
You can buy low-end PCs.
Take and compare a low-end Dell PC or a low-end laptop.
Again, either way, you can find both of those two things for less than $700 from Dell,
a PC for less than, like, $400 without the monitor.
So we're talking low-end machines.
Now, you compare that with the equivalent, quote-unquote, low-end Mac.
I mean, even the Mini Mac.
Is that – and, Savannah, I know you know a little bit about Macs.
The Mini Mac is the lowest or the cheapest model that Apple makes.
Is that right?
I think so.
I don't know who told you I know anything about Macs.
I thought you knew a little bit about Macs.
I know enough not to use them.
Oh, boy, are you going to get hate mail for that one.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, see, so I looked into the Mini Mac because I want one.
I'll be honest.
I want one because I want to see what the big deal is.
I want to see what people like about them.
I like the hardware form factors and stuff like that.
I think they look nice.
I think they're light.
You know, I think they are a decent machine.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not attacking them or putting them down per se.
I'm just saying that it's ridiculous comparing the cost.
I mean, I don't think there's any – I just don't see there's any debate.
I think it's such a clear-cut thing that Macintosh is more expensive.
Apple makes more expensive hardware, period, because they're a hardware manufacturer.
But take the Mini Mac, for example.
The cheapest one out there, the Mini Mac, costs more than even a powerful low-end PC.
I mean, I think the Mini Macs, I want to say, and don't correct me if I'm off by a few bucks here,
but it's like $500 or $600, I think, for the lowest-end one.
And it doesn't have the same – it has a slower processor.
It has less memory and, you know, completely limited upgradability.
You can't crack things open in general with Macintosh hardware.
I mean, you kind of, sort of can, but your Voyager warranty and all that kind of stuff comes into play.
So, I mean, when you're comparing, like, the Mini Mac, which is their low-end, versus a low-end PC,
there's no comparison.
I mean, I can get, again, for less than – and, again, the Mini Mac doesn't come with a monitor for that price either.
So, you know, right there, there's no debate.
I don't see any way, shape, or form you can defend that a Mac is cheaper or the same price as the equivalent PC.
In my mind, I don't see it.
You'd really have to convince me.
One person, by the way, I should have looked him up so I could thank him.
One person did send me a link to a Mini Mac on sale.
I think it's the old model before it went to Intel, I think.
I wouldn't swear by that.
So, I guess they're doing closeouts on the old ones, but they weren't from Apple.
They were, like, through resellers and stuff.
I think Compusa was the link that was sent to me.
And when I went to check it out, of course, there were none available.
I couldn't order it.
And even that, quite honestly, was still a little bit more than a PC, but I was still willing to drop 500 bucks.
I think it was 400 or 500 bucks to try one out, and I couldn't get it because they were all gone.
So, I'm talking about new ones from the manufacturer, of course, because if you're going to talk about buying used ones or discount or clearance or whatever, then you better do the same thing with the Dell.
So, if you're going to make that comparison and say, oh, but you can get a Mac from Compusa on clearance for this, well, guess what?
What can you get the Dell on clearance or on refurb or whatever?
So, make sure you keep your comparisons fair.
So, and then as far as laptops go, I mean, come on.
I don't think there's a Mac laptop for less than $1,000.
And I know you can buy, yeah, I think it's $999 for the lowest, is it MacBook?
Is that what they call them?
Yeah.
Something like that.
The lowest-end MacBook with a small monitor and not a lot of memory, et cetera, et cetera.
And, again, you can get a laptop, a Dell laptop for $700 or less probably these days.
So, again, I just don't see the comparison whatsoever for your normal everyday machines that people are buying.
So, I'm not talking about the $5,000 high-end machines.
I mean, that, you could debate that back and forth all day, but I do think that those purchases are driven by what you want to do with the machine and or whether you're a zealot for that particular architecture.
And, you know, I'm not a zealot for either one, so I don't want to send the wrong impression like I'm a big Apple basher.
I'm really not.
I think they make overpriced, underpowered hardware.
That's just a statement.
I mean, period.
I'm not hating on them exactly.
If they dropped the price a little bit, I'd buy one.
Or if someone wants to send me one for free, there you go.
Right.
But I'm talking normal people buying normal machines.
To me, and I can only speak for myself, Savant, you can follow up on this if you want,
but to me, a PC blows the Mac's panties right off the fucking – right off – hold on.
Here's my little quote in the show notes.
Blows the Mac's panties right the fuck off like Savant in a porn movie.
There you go.
No, really, it leaves the Mac standing in a puddle of its own piss, and you can't even open the fucking machine to change its diaper.
I mean, it just completely blows it out of the fucking water.
So I don't want to put you on the spot because Verbal got some hate mail about his comments.
He was trying to hawk his MacBook to me, and I'd love to use one.
I'd love to own one.
Right.
But I'm not going to take out a mortgage to pick up another laptop that I don't know or that isn't as comfortable to me
as something that I've been using all my life, like a PC or a Linux-based laptop.
I mean, I've already got a laptop.
Why do I need to spend all this money?
Now, the one good thing I can say about Mac is that so far there hasn't been much in the way of exploitation the way there has with PCs.
So I wouldn't mind telling my grandma to spend an extra $300 and get the MacBook so that I don't have to spend every fucking weekend for the rest of my life removing malware.
Well, except for this fact.
When something does go wrong, your grandma's going to call you and ask you to fix it.
And if you don't know jack shit about Macs, you're out of luck.
Worse not, if I'm not a certified Macintosh professional, then my even breathing mirror might void the warranty.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So, yeah, I mean, I like them.
I'd like to try one.
But, you know, I'm just not willing to pay that much money for them.
If they drop the prices, which is all I've ever said all along, if they drop the prices on them,
which they should have done when they went to Intel because they're cheaper for them to make,
they're cheaper processors for them to get.
They should have passed those savings on, and they didn't.
So, hey, that's their choice of how to run the business, and I'm just not going to support it.
No big deal.
Personal decision.
All right, so I guess enough of the – those aren't distro wars, I guess.
They're OS wars.
We'll just move on to another email and let people form their own opinions.
Next email this week comes from – I'm just going to say Germ.
It's xgermx.
I guess it's just for flair around the germ.
It's just flair around the name.
Germ says, I think it was on episode 167.
You and Verbal were talking about the price differences between – oh, crap.
We're going to this again?
Damn it.
I didn't realize this email was in here.
Okay, the price differences between OSX and Vista.
Verbal mentioned Vista costing around $300, but it's actually going to be closer to around $75, at least for an upgrade.
And he gives a link here that I'm not going to read out.
I think that's easily found.
I thought I mentioned this on the show, actually.
I just started listening to the show about a week, and I really enjoy it.
You guys do an excellent job, and hopefully after a few more episodes, I can give some constructive criticism.
I love the ep about open source security tools, and I personally would like to hear a full show about Yersinia.
All right.
Well, thank you, Germ, for the email, and yeah, I told Verbal – I thought I said it on that show that he's Office Rocker, that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
But, you know, Verbal and his online prowess is legendary at this point, and I mean, Sylvain, I think you know what I'm talking about here.
I mean, what do we know about Verbal and his online skills?
Verbal sucks at the online.
Yeah, I mean, that pretty much just summarizes the whole thing.
So, yeah, don't worry about Verbal.
And yours was not the only request for Yersinia, by the way.
And not only that, but we had a lot of people asking for more detail on several different tools.
So I am trying to put those together as we speak.
It's kind of hard to do those topics on a radio show, though, because you walk that very dangerous line of being very dry to describe a piece of software, at least at the level of detail that we try to put into this show.
And really, I mean, anybody can give you a list of, you know, names and what they do generally.
But we try to go into a little bit more detail.
Even when we did go through that open source security tools, we went into a little bit of detail in each one of them.
But to pick one out and go into a real level of detail and keep it interesting on the radio is really, really hard to do.
So we're trying to put that together and see how we can make it come across and still be entertaining as well as educational.
What would really be cool is if some of the actual – if we got some of the developers on the show to talk about the tools that they've worked on, that they know intimately.
I think that would be – make it a whole lot easier for me and make it really cool if we could have those people.
See, they'd be able to explain them – well, again, more intimately I think is the best word because they know the inside, the internals of it.
So that would be the best way to do it.
So I guess actually maybe I'll make a call out right now.
Now, if you are a developer on any of these security tools or a security tool of any kind and want to come on the show for an episode or two to talk about your tool and how it works and what it does and some level of detail,
as well as read through a few crackpot emails along the way, then email me.
Email us, radio at binrev.com, and we'll see if we can't put something together because I think that would be very cool if we started to get some of the developers of these tools
who can tell us a little bit more about the inner workings of some of these tools instead of just people who have used them who can tell us how they work.
There's value in that certainly.
Very, very interesting to do that side of things as well.
But if we knew – if we had the developers on as well who could talk about that and more, I think that would be really, really cool.
All right, so let's see.
One more email, then we'll wrap it up and move on to our show topic this week.
Last email comes from Carl, who says,
Stank, don't doubt yourself so easily.
Gomer Pyle started off in Mayberry, then left to join the Marines when the Gomer Pyle show spun off.
Well, some bitch.
Didn't even know that.
I don't think I knew that anyway.
I might have been on my subconscious somewhere when I said that.
That was one of those weird tangents we went off on another show.
But, you know, believe it or not, as old as I am, you know, the gray hair, just, you know, hitting that middle age mark there or whatever I'm at,
these shows were still a little bit before my time, believe it or not, slightly before my time.
I definitely watched them when I was a kid, came home, watched them after school and stuff, but they were in reruns at that point,
so it was a little bit before my time.
But I guess subconsciously I did know it, and I guess it was implanted back in my brain somewhere.
But you know what?
As usual, I'm right.
I mean, the sooner you people understand that what I say is completely, 100% correct, the sooner we can all move on with life.
I mean, it just makes things so much easier when you realize that I am always right.
Accept it when I'm a dumbass.
Oh, actually, that's what we're going to do for closing music tonight, by the way.
Oh, the remix?
Yeah, your remix.
We're going to use that for closing music tonight.
I've got to remember that.
Yes.
All right, we've got to put that on tonight.
Okay, so that's enough for email.
Let's close up the mailbag this week.
You ready to go into our main topic?
Let's do it.
You got your drink there, because this is going to be a lot of talking on your end of things,
because our main topic tonight is a review of TourCon 8, the hacking conference convention.
I never know what to call these things.
The hacking get-together.
Well, yeah, the con's a cheap way out.
Does that stand for conference or convention?
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Either way.
All right, so TourCon 8 review.
TourCon, of course, is a hacking whatever gathering of some sort that takes place at San Diego,
in the San Diego Convention Center.
Is that every year at the same place?
Have they moved it from time to time?
How long have you been going?
How many have you been to?
This is my second TourCon, and both of them so far have been at the convention center.
But as I understand it, the ones before that took place at various hotels around San Diego.
But now they're finally big enough to where they feel confident in spending the money on the convention center.
Well, you know what?
Convention centers are designed for that sort of thing, so it's probably a better venue.
Obviously, I haven't seen it, but convention centers are designed for that purpose.
So I bet you it's pretty cool and easy to lay out and get things organized, I should say.
Yeah, it's the same conference hall that they use at the International Comic Con every year.
We don't use nearly as much floor space, but there's a lot of room to walk around.
They serve drinks there.
It's not a bad venue, and it's in downtown, so you can walk to it just about every time.
All right, and this is an annual conference every year about the same time, correct?
Mm-hmm, correct.
And let's see, what about, okay, about how many people were there?
This time around, there was about 300 or 400, and it felt like there were less people there than there were last conference.
Really?
But it was, yeah, it was still pretty sizable.
Hmm, interesting.
I hope their attendance didn't go down.
That would suck.
Maybe it's just I knew everybody there at this time as opposed to last time where I was just meeting them, but it just felt smaller.
Hmm.
All right, well, let's see, 300 or 400 people, what was the ticket cost?
How much did it cost to get in?
It cost, you know, if you pre-registered right as the conference opened up, I believe it was 50, and then it made its way up to 75,
and it was 100 at the door if you waited right until the day of the conference to go.
Yeah, see, isn't that a lot like ShmooCon does with their pricing?
Because it's one of the things I didn't like.
I would love to have gone to ShmooCon, but I can't commit to something that early.
I don't know what my work schedule is going to be.
I don't know what my personal schedule is going to be, so I can't commit that early.
And by the time it gets closer and I realize I might be able to go, the prices have gone up so much.
Yeah, at this point, it might be proven to just buy a damn ticket ahead of time, not knowing if you're going to go.
And then when it sells out, because ShmooCon sold out last year, they just hawk it on eBay or something.
Right, right.
Yeah, but it's pretty obnoxious having to plan out your year six to seven months in advance
just to not get even upside down over the cost of getting into the conference.
Well, even so, at $100 at the highest on the last day, that's not so awful bad in my opinion.
I mean, not everybody can come up with $100 on top of the other costs.
Like the hotel, did you stay at the hotel?
Let's see, it's at the conference center, so there wasn't a hotel.
It wasn't at a hotel, so what was the closest?
Well, there are plenty of hotels in the area of every major manufacturer, you know,
DoubleTree or Hyatt or Hilton or whatever else.
I think a lot of people stayed at the Hilton and a lot of people stayed at the Hotel Solimar
down here in San Diego, but since I live, it's like 15 minutes from the conference center,
it just crashed at my place and took advantage of the shit out of it.
Oh, nice.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty sweet.
I know I'm dropping docs on myself over here again.
Someone's going to be writing this down.
Yeah.
San Diego.
They're going to go on Google Maps to the convention center.
They're going to do 15-minute driving diameter, and they're going to knock door to door until
they find you.
Yeah, well, you know what?
I'm going to give that person a cookie and a beer if they ever do.
Okay.
Yeah, sure, it's a pretty small town.
They shouldn't have any problems.
San Diego, yeah, it's a shack town.
Yeah, come on, it'll take them an hour at the most.
I mean, no big deal.
All right, so it's not a hotel directly there, so it's pretty much wherever they're at.
Now, if I remember right, I saw on the webpage, one of the things I liked about them is they
gave a lot of good information about the different hotels in the area and had set up
some conference pricing with a lot of them, and even the rental cars.
Again, you didn't need that because you're there, but if you wanted to go and have a
rental car to get around down there, they even had a special price they'd worked out
with one of the rental car companies.
I was impressed by that because that shows that they're actually thinking of what all
kind of nice things or helpful things can they do for their attendees.
They're going out of their way, and to me, that was very cool.
I like that a lot.
Now, Hope had their wiki where they put up a little bit of information about hotels,
but there pretty much all they did was, listen, here's the rate for the Hotel Pennsylvania,
and when it fills up, which it always does, they didn't really do a whole lot.
I mean, at the last minute, I think they tried to work out some other hotels nearby, but for
the most part, you were on your own.
Right, and I think that that's one of the small differences in production value that sets
Torcon aside from some of the other ones like Hope.
Hope felt more like a hacker conference, you know, quote unquote.
So, it felt a lot more, you know, homebrewed and grassroots, but Torcon definitely had
that little professional extra that made it worth crossing the country to attend.
Yeah, and you know, that's a good point because I was kind of going to ask this coming up,
is this, would you still consider this a hacking conference, or is this a security
professionals conference?
Or a little of both?
Yeah, definitely a little of both, but in the same way that ShmooCon, a little of both,
but I would say far more geared towards industry.
Most of your hacker types are either going to make it to DEF CON, or they're going to
make it to Hope, but generally won't cross the country just to go to a small little shindig.
And I think because it was prohibitively expensive in terms of travel, that only the people that
were being sent by vendors or security research firms or just really wanted to know the information
actually made the trek.
Right, right.
Or people that were obviously there in Cali and could get there easily.
Yeah.
Yeah, all right, well that's interesting to know.
I mean, see, I think there's still a happy medium in between there that can be reached.
I just wish you had a little bit of a, you know, I wish you had a hacker conference run
by people who took a little bit more pride in their organizational skills and actually
went that extra mile to be professional, I guess, for lack of a better word, to be professional
in what they put on, but not be a sellout, I guess.
I'm not sure exactly what I'm trying to say.
I'm not calling them sellouts, don't get me wrong.
What I'm saying is there's a happy medium where you can have a real hacking conference,
and let's say DEFCON, for example, and still do a lot of the things that the TORCON people
have done.
Now, you can do Hope and still do a lot of things that the TORCON people have done.
Putting up a wiki and hoping that people put a list of local restaurants or hotels and
stuff like that, it's nice in theory and all, but you know what, if the conference organizers
took it upon themselves to do that extra little thing, and I'm not belittling it saying it's
easy either, you know what I mean?
It just seems like there's a happy medium between all of these that could be accomplished.
Now, speaking of restaurants, what's, I mean, there's other costs associated.
When I look at going to a conference, I take the whole package.
What's the hotel going to cost me?
What's the airfare going to cost me?
What's the rental if I'm going to get it, et cetera, cost to get into the damn thing?
All those things, even eating out at restaurants, I mean, are there any other costs?
I mean, what's prices like in California in general out there?
I mean, is restaurants the same as they are everywhere else?
Well, they're pretty close.
I mean, downtown's especially bad.
There aren't a whole lot of fast food options unless you're willing to hook it up five blocks
to the mall that's over there.
But there's a lot of really nice restaurants for every pallet of cuisine.
Like, if you can only eat Thai, then there's a really nice Thai restaurant down there.
It kind of looks like Indiana Jones, the ride from Disneyland.
But, you know, you're generally looking at, if you're going to go out to a nice place,
you're looking to 20 to 30 bucks a plate plus whatever drinks.
Damn.
Which, yeah, I mean, at a restaurant, it can get pretty steep.
But that's just part of the course downtown.
You know, there's plenty of fast food joints within.
You can walk there.
You can take the trolley because it runs right next to the convention center.
And it's also next to the stadium.
So if you're into games, if that's your thing, then you might luck out.
And the conference will be at the same time as one of the Padre games.
Definitely.
There's a lot of clubs in the area.
There's a lot of nightlife.
So if you really like to go out, like I know a bunch of us went out after Hope,
then there's plenty to do.
You can't go in there in your cut-up jeans and your black heavy metal T-shirt.
And it's going to cost you probably like 10 bucks a drink inside there.
And they reek of bad cologne and cheap perfume.
And there's a lot of stupid girls with huge knockers and no brains.
But, I mean, if that's your thing, then you're solid.
Wait a minute.
Who in the world that's not their thing?
Girls with big tits and low brains.
I mean, isn't that everybody's thing?
Kind of, but when a girl asks me what I do for a living,
I don't want to get that dog being shown a card trick double blink.
You know what I mean?
Are you kidding?
Dude, that's the money shot.
What are you talking about?
That's the money shot.
I like a girl that can blow my mind, too.
That's the money shot before the money shot.
That's when you know you've got them right there.
Yeah.
Hey, baby, do you know what TCP stands for?
Blink, blink.
Blink.
What are you doing later?
Shit.
Oh, man, that is definitely the money shot.
Oh, okay.
Well, so, you know what?
This does sound, we kind of said earlier about comparing it to Shmoo as far as the ticket prices.
Is this kind of like a ShmooCon West?
Have you been to ShmooCon before?
Yeah, yeah.
Shmoo, I went to the last one.
Hopefully I'll be going to the next one.
I think you can break it down.
Like, in terms of similarities, they were of similar cost.
The lineups were very similar.
A lot of the same presenters were there.
It's not giving the same talks and very similar technical level of content.
And the crowd sizes were pretty much the same.
The difference would be San Diego's weather was a lot, a lot nicer than D.C. in early, you know, in late winter, early January, whenever it was.
Right.
D.C. has got a lot more history.
And now I'm from San Diego, so maybe being in D.C., they're just like, oh, cool, that's, you know, this guy was hung here and we lost this right there.
And our liberties were stolen from us here.
And I find that a bit more interesting.
So, you know, there's something to be said about a conference in your hometown versus the one that's not.
It's not as exotic, but it's way more comfortable.
Well, yeah, I guess it's probably a, I guess a general travel.
I mean, if you live someplace, you kind of get used to it.
But I, you said earlier, I am a baseball guy.
I would definitely take in a Padres game while I'm there if I could.
And, frankly, right now with the NFL going on, I try to take in a Charger.
How far is a Charger stadium?
I would say, you know, with no traffic, a good 20 minutes from the station.
And, Paul, you mentioned a trolley.
So there's good public transportation in San Diego, too?
Yes and no.
Parts of it, downtown in Mission Valley where the stadium is, the football stadium, it's great to get back and forth.
But if you want to go anywhere else, then you're kind of SOL.
Like, to get to the beach, you would have to take three trolleys and two buses or whatever.
Or, I think someone was telling me that they drove from my area to the Comic-Con on a bus, and it took them an hour, to put it in perspective.
Yeah, see, maybe if Comic-Con was there the same weekend or back-to-back or something, I'd work out a week there for a trip.
That would be kind of cool.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, boy, that's a long trip for me.
I'll tell you what, let's go down the lineup at all the different presenters and topics from TorCon 8, it was, correct?
Yes, TorCon 8.
TorCon 8, okay.
The theme was called Bits and Bytes this year, and last year it was Smoke and Mirrors.
Yeah, and actually, one of the coolest things, it was one of the most awesome things, especially about the website as I was reading up on it, is their CFP.
All their call for paper responses were awesome.
They were so cool.
You can go to the website itself, TorCon.org, and read, go down the list of presentations and speakers.
I don't know, I have the exact URL, but you know what, you're a hacker, you can find it.
There's a little letter C next to the speaker's name or whatever that shows their call for papers, and I thought some of those, I had a blast just reading those.
All this old school glory, I don't know if that's like a TorCon tradition, if that was just a few people decided to have some fun, if they, I don't know how they came up to me.
It was very, what's the word, clever, artistic, I don't know.
It was, I thought it was really cool, it wasn't your typical, you know, answer these questions, and it was, you know, like, for example, filling out DEF CON, let me tell you, and you can probably back me up on this one.
Filling out the DEF CON call for paper, you've got to answer all these freaking questions in like two or three pages worth of shit, and send them your presentations and stuff, and it was just so, I don't know what the word.
It was a 20 to 30 minute process.
Yeah, it was just so plastic and so robotic, I don't know.
And this one seemed a lot more fun in it, and let me tell you, if there's anybody listening from TorCon, that made me go through and read a lot of this stuff on the website, because I just enjoyed looking at that.
So thumbs up for that, I thought that was cool, that was unique, that was something different I'd never seen done before, and I, for one, appreciated it, I thought that was cool.
Now, as far as the presenters themselves, I think you mentioned this earlier, but I also, this caught my attention as I read through the list.
Again, I did not attend, so I'm pretty much going to throw all these questions off onto you, so be prepared for all these, because I was not able to attend all the way out there on the west side.
West side?
All right.
I'm sitting down, and my pants are off.
All right.
Well, I thought we went through that before the show started.
When we do our warm-up, we walk through the show notes, you're supposed to have your pants off then.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Well, I just figured now was a good time to let you know in case you were done.
Oh, gotcha, gotcha.
Gotcha.
All right.
So, a couple of the presenters and presentations, I noticed, seem to be duplicates from other conferences.
So, let me walk down a couple of these and tell me, did you see it, or had you seen it before?
Did another one, like, there was Black Ops from Dan Kaminsky was there again.
Now, he gives this at DEFCON for sure every year.
And Black Hat.
I'm sorry?
And Black Hat.
Right.
Now, is it the same thing?
Did it change a little bit?
But I couldn't imagine it would change in such a short time frame, not very drastically anyway.
He definitely does the same format in terms of how the presentation was laid out.
Now, let me say this.
I did not get to see it at TourCon, but I have seen it at Black Hat.
I did see it at DEFCON, and I think I saw it at ShmooCon as well.
It's really interesting, but I just felt comfortable that I knew what that talk was going to be about,
and so I didn't have to see it at this time, which made seeing the other talks a little easier.
Right, and that's kind of what I'm getting at.
It's one of those things where once you've seen it, you feel like, why should I go see it again?
You're comfortable with what it's about.
Now, I'm sure, don't get me wrong, I am sure that it changes a little bit,
because it's always called Black Ops every time I've ever seen it.
But I'm sure the content changes.
He can't sit and milk the same topic and content for a couple years at multiple conferences.
I'm sure it's changing and adapting, and each time, it's something new added to it.
I think he looks at different protocols each time around.
Like, each year, he'll look at something new.
Like, last year, he was doing a lot of cool stuff with DNS,
and I think this year he was doing something with, I want to say, SSL or SSH.
So if you ever see the Black Ops listed, then basically go and see what the CFP tells about it,
see what the description of it is, and compare it to the one that you may have seen in the past,
or the one that was presented in an earlier conference, and see if there are any differences,
and if there's something that you're interested in before you go see that one.
Right, like, he'll usually use his ridiculous bandwidth, and we'll scam the entire internet for,
hold on, there's aliens or something invading my house.
Yeah, I think we kind of heard that in the background there.
No, you want the guy next door.
No, no, I'm good.
Put your pants back on first.
Right.
Okay.
This time around, he was talking about SSLs.
But he's got this ridiculous network at his hands, I want to say Prolexa,
I don't know if that's his network, or if that's Herpes Cree or something,
but he's got just retarded bandwidth, and he'll scan the entire internet,
like every web server, or DNS server, and just get these ungodly results
that he likes to put into really cool graphs that look like, you know,
coral arrangements or something.
Hmm.
Or like neurons.
Cool stuff.
Yeah, but unfortunately I didn't see that one this time.
Right.
All right, well, let's see.
Another one that I noticed on there that I see quite frequently was Simple Nomad,
and he speaks at a lot of different conferences.
I know for sure he was at the InterZone that I went to this last,
what was it, InterZone 5, I think, 4?
I think it was 5.
I've got to look that up.
But he's like the keynote speaker at InterZone the last couple of years,
and he, again, makes the rounds at a lot of different conferences.
Did you make it to his?
You know, I didn't make it to this one either.
He goes real early in the morning, right?
Yes.
Yeah, why?
Why did he do that?
I don't know.
That always gets me to.
Like when my friends end up presenting at like 10 a.m. or something,
I always just have to, like this happened at Black Ratchet at Hope last year.
I'm like, listen, man, I'm sorry, but my hotel's up there.
I'd have to get up so early to get up and get down here in time.
I'm sorry, man.
I'm just not going to make it.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Well, his talk, he, I've seen his talks before,
and I don't think he specifically ever knows what exactly he's going to talk about when he goes up there.
I think he's just got an open-ended ramp permit that he carries around with him at each conference,
and he's always entertaining.
The guy's a riot.
Yeah.
He gave a presentation last year about hacking wireless while on airplanes using default insecurities in Windows XP,
and it was a really interesting talk, but it brings up a point.
I wonder how long Civil Nomad's going to be able to travel around like this before he gets added to a no-fly list.
Yeah.
The guy, he doesn't pull any punches when he talks to people.
Yeah, I'm not sure what he's referring to with the airlines there, but I travel a lot.
Oh, okay.
I can go to the real fast fuel.
Yeah, I travel a lot for my job, and, yeah, I'm always scanning through the airports,
and even on the plane, we can be, you know, 30,000 feet in the air or whatever,
and I'm working on my laptop, and somebody back there has always got their wireless unsecured,
and I'm just doing peer-to-peer browsing through their hard drive and stuff,
so it happens all the time.
Well, it should be talking about ad hoc wireless networks,
and even if they're not in the same work group as you,
that you can sniff the wire once you've connected to them ad hoc to get their IP address,
and then you change your subnet to that,
and then from there you can actually do any standard network-level attack against them
while they're sipping their $13 coffee or their $19 vodka Red Bulls
or whatever it is in your plans.
Yep.
Good stuff.
All right.
Well, let's see.
Here's another one that was a duplicate from DEF CON,
as well as InterZone as well.
My good friend Linux advanced Windows Firewall Subversion,
which was a great talk.
Again, I saw it at InterZone.
He again gave it at DEF CON, added a little bit more to it at DEF CON,
but gave that at DEF CON, and now again at TOR CON.
So, again, I'm sure he's adding a little bit of stuff as he continued his hacking and research and stuff,
but I thought that was very cool to see Linux because this is a guy that I think is really going places,
so I really like supporting him.
So it was good to see him out there presenting this at several places.
Did you, by chance, make it?
I'm going to ask you this for every one of these.
Did you make it or not make it?
Well, let's just assume for the most part that I'm an alcoholic and didn't make it to any of these
until I tell you otherwise.
Okay, okay. Sounds good.
I made it to probably five talks, including mine,
so there's four other talks that I think I made it to, but they were really good.
Well, and that's what happens to me, too, is especially if you are one of the speakers,
you spend some time polishing your stuff up and trying to get ready for it and all that kind of stuff,
and you might be up late editing your slides at the last minute
and not making it until the butt crack of noon the next day.
You know, I'm not getting up at the butt crack of dawn to come see somebody's talk.
No offense.
Almost nobody on the planet am I going to get up that early to come see their talk.
Not going to happen.
Yeah. At Hope, we didn't even start working on our presentation until 4 in the morning
and didn't get it finished until 8 a.m., which is two hours before we were supposed to go on.
Yeah, you know, and actually I'm probably exception to that, I'll admit.
I'm very anal about having my presentation done not only before but, like, months before.
I don't like sending in a CFP.
I don't like committing to present somewhere unless I have it done already,
or at least 75% done.
I don't want to commit to somebody and then something happened at the last minute
and I'm the asshole that bails out the day before or something like that.
So I like to always do mine ahead of time, yeah.
Or show up and half-ass it, you know.
So, let's see.
Another friend of ours, Scott Moulton, he definitely presented this at DEF CON.
I saw it at DEF CON.
Actually, Verbal and I sat and watched this when it was, I think it was Verbal and I.
Was it Ratchet and I?
Anyway, the hacking hard drives for data recovery.
Very good friend of ours.
And this guy, I don't know if anybody knows this,
he was the first guy that was ever arrested for port scanning,
which is kind of a neat story.
I didn't know that.
That's really interesting.
Yeah, that's a neat story.
I bump into him occasionally at conferences.
Actually, I had bumped into him before and didn't recognize him.
So, from now on, he's somebody that I'm going to look out to stop in and say hello and talk to.
But he'll tell you some good stories, too.
He's been around for a while.
And his presentation, I'm pretty sure this was exactly the same one at DEF CON
because it's not exactly a technology that changes a whole lot in a couple of months.
But his presentation was good because he didn't do the PowerPoint thing.
He did the slide completely in Flash.
So, it was a completely Flash animated presentation, which was really cool.
So, as far as his flair, I guess, was pretty good on his presentation, as well as the content.
Privacy is dead.
Get over it.
Now, this was definitely one that was from Hope 6 this year.
This is the one from Stephen Rambam, or Rambam.
I'm pretty sure it's Rambam.
I'm not sure how you pronounce it.
I think it's Rambam.
Where he got arrested just before he was able to give this at the 6th Hope, or Hope No. 6,
or whatever the hell they called it, in New York this past year.
I think the feds came and busted him an hour, half hour before he was about to give this presentation.
And I'm not sure of the backstory.
I've heard conflicting stories, actually, of whether it was about this presentation itself.
I think it was actually that he got busted for impersonating a federal officer.
I think when he was going on one of his, when he was doing some reconnaissance to gather information.
And I don't know if it was anything to do with this particular presentation, or just unrelated.
And they just did this as a publicity timing thing to stop him.
But he did not give this at the 6th Hope.
So, apparently, he gave it at TorCon.
Now, I heard that, what you were just saying, that he has, it was unrelated to his presentation
at Hope 6, but that they did need, they got him there because they knew we'd be there.
And, yeah, they probably wanted to make some headlines and earn those hard-earned dollars.
And I didn't see it this year.
I noticed, though, that in Hope 5, he gave a similar talk called Privacy, Not Dead, Not What It Used To Be.
And that's at the-fifth-hope.org, and they've got the audio here, too.
And I've heard this before, and it's really chilling stuff, what he manages to uncover about you,
just using public available information or things that he has access to, or at least knows about as a private detective.
What bothered me about this talk, though, was that he dropped all these docs on this guy,
and he didn't really talk about how he did it.
You know what I mean?
That's cool, but it came across as a shock talk.
Right, right, I mean, people want to know how.
I mean, just showing up, here's a screenshot of a website that I hacked.
Well, that's cool, but give me a little bit more to go on, you know?
Yeah, otherwise it's a friggin' card trick, you know, what does it matter?
Well, if he has a PI license, he's got a lot more access to things, too, which makes it a lot easier.
And I think this is, the one he gave at the Fifth Hope, if I remember it right,
he's the one that I think he asked for a volunteer willing to give up their stuff.
I think it was Rick Dakin.
I think our friend Rick that gave up his information was willing to have it put out there, if I remember right.
So, yeah, I know which one you're talking about.
I wonder how much different this one was from, this one being the one from Hope 6 and Torcon from the one at Hope 5.
But, again, maybe we can get the video from that somehow.
Yeah, hopefully.
Yeah.
There was one on the evolving art of fuzzing.
I don't know if it's the same one from DEF CON, but there was certainly one at DEF CON.
And, actually, I heard that was like my buzzword at DEF CON that I heard more than anything was fuzzing.
So, I thought that was kind of interesting.
That was what seemed to be the big topic of interest.
And I know there was a lot more that I couldn't remember that were also duplicates.
These particular ones caught my attention because I had attended or seen or heard of most of these.
Actually, I had attended most of these at previous conferences.
So, there were probably a few others that I didn't recognize because I did not attend them or see them.
So, I didn't go down through the list purposely looking for them.
But that many jumped out at me as being duplicates.
So, I'm not sure what to think about that.
I mean, if I were, if I had attended, which, you know, I do attend at least one or two conferences a year, you know, or I try to anyway.
I've already seen maybe a third of these presentations.
So, I'm not sure that I would, that's another thing that would maybe detract me from going to TORCON.
Or from buying your tickets while in advance when maybe you've already seen all the talks.
Right.
And actually, that's a good point.
Do they have these talks, do they have the speakers listed that far in advance?
Usually not.
Not when they first start the pre-sale tickets.
It's generally, hey, it costs a lot of money to get people in.
If you want a good con, buy a ticket now.
Yeah, and I'm not committing money that early, and I don't know who the presenters are, period, in any case.
Right.
Yeah, forget that.
Well, I mean, at least ShmooCon's got more of a history in TORCON's getting there to where they do get good names.
And if you just trust them a little bit and you're willing to eat 50 bucks maybe, then at the very least get your name in there and secure yourself a seat.
Yeah, certainly if I was in your situation, I would do it the day they came out.
Because I do, I respect what they've done from looking at the website and the organization they've put into it.
Definitely looks like something I would enjoy.
So if I was a little bit more convenient, I certainly, certainly would go out of my way to make sure I made it to it.
But when I'm over here on the east side, and that's a long flight over there and back.
Boom.
Yeah, and all the other costs.
Now, I'm going to crash with you now that I know you're that close.
Yeah, man, I'm real close.
That takes out the hotel cost of things.
And I mean, if you really want to make it to these conferences but you just can't quite swing all the costs,
there's things you can do like, like you said, crash with somebody that you know that lives in the area or has a hotel room.
But what I've been doing is just, you know, taking a chance and trying to submit any talks that I think that would be worthwhile.
And if I get accepted to that, would that talk pretty much dictate whether or not I'm going to spend the rest of the money.
Right, right.
And that's the funny thing.
I think I mentioned this earlier before at DEF CON this year.
I did not submit a talk.
And it was the first time I'd actually had to pay for a badge to get into a conference, which was kind of a strange feeling.
So, but that still doesn't, that still doesn't, I was going to say, that still doesn't take away from the fact that you've got to pay for a hotel and other stuff.
I mean, some conferences will pay your whole...
We're hackers.
Yeah.
We're hackers, we're resourceful.
Yeah, exactly.
We'll stack 20 people in a room.
It's no problem.
Seriously.
With no pants.
One talk that I didn't see you mention because it didn't quite go down the way it was supposed to was one from Johnny Cash and David Maynard that turned out to cause quite a bit of hype on the global intro web.
That's the OSX thing?
Yeah, that is the OSX thing.
For those of you who don't know, they presented it first to Black Cat and then in DEF CON.
They had figured out some really interesting things about drivers, the drivers themselves for wireless cars specifically.
And they found a way with certain drivers on certain vendors to actually pop back a shell as an administrator.
And for flash and awe, they went ahead and used the OSX drivers for the airport cars.
And they weren't able to actually show the exploit there.
They were really concerned about releasing it to a room full of hackers with wireless snippers.
So they shot a video of the exploit working from a few different angles.
And they showed the video at Black Cat and at DEF CON.
And I couldn't help but feel like I was watching, you know, David Blaine or David Copperfield or Chris Angel or something.
You know, nothing behind the laptop, nothing on the other side of the laptop.
But when I pressed this keypad, root shell.
Right.
So anyway, they got a lot of flack for not talking about how the exploit actually worked.
And so they said, fine, well, you know what?
We released the vulnerabilities to SecureWorks and to Apple and everyone else.
And no one's talking about Apache, but everybody wants to know about this problem.
It's time to go open with it.
And Apple and SecureWorks got involved.
And they basically had an injunction filed and basically said, if you go give us a presentation, we're going to sue you back in the Stone Age.
And that didn't seem to bother Johnny Cash too much.
But at the last minute, it looks like David got, well, we don't know what happened to David.
But for whatever reason, he didn't show up.
And so instead of giving that talk, Johnny Cash had an eight-minute speech about the reasons he wasn't unable to give it.
And there's a video of this up, actually, at tinyearl.com slash N-M-L-F-E dot Nancy, Michael, Leroy, Frank, Edward.
And he looks pretty pissed off.
And I think he dropped a couple of squares in there.
And one thing they ended up doing instead was having a few, like, 20-minute speed talks to fill up the time.
I think they had two or three guys go up there and give just last-knitted, impromptu, you know, mercenary talks about this and that and the other.
But that would have been really, really interesting.
I think we may see some of those details coming out within the next couple weeks.
That would be cool to see that.
And, yeah, this is one I remember.
This is the thing where, like, everybody, it made bigger headlines, I guess, on the global interweb because it was the first vulnerability for OSX and whatnot.
But it actually was an issue with the driver.
It was not necessarily a Macintosh or an OSX issue.
It was with the driver and the vendor who made the driver, if this is the same one I'm thinking of.
Correct.
Yeah, the hardware is the same, regardless if you're running Linux or OSX or Windows XP.
So they just chose to demo it in OSX because, what, it was a little bit cooler that way because it works in OSX and there aren't that many exploits for OSX?
I'm pretty sure that's the reason they wanted to get the most sizzle out of their steak, so they chose OSX.
And I think they did a good job because everyone seems to think that this is an OSX problem, but it's not.
Yeah, it's not at all.
And actually, hey, that goes back to our email earlier.
There's another reason to have the Macintosh or to have the Apple hardware and get OSX, but not $300 or $400 more worth, not for that.
Right.
Let's see, we've got about maybe 20 minutes, I think, on time, somewhere thereabouts.
So let's move on to a couple more of these talks because this next batch of talks I was glancing at just frankly confused the hell out of me because I don't know what the hell they were about.
I don't know what they were.
Remember, like, for example, these first three I'll put together and lump together, one was called – these are going to be even hard to read because I'm not sure.
It's called Loving the LOLs and the LOL is my will.
Or I don't know if I'm supposed to say Loving the LOLs, the LOL is my will.
What the hell?
What?
All right, so there was another one called LOLphone or LOLphone, Exploiting Trust and Social Phone Networks.
And I'm like, okay, the LOL thing is annoying, but exploiting social – what's a social phone network?
I go to look it up.
I read the description and the CFP, and I still don't know what the hell that was about.
And then there was a third one in the LOL trilogy, I guess, called High Tech Code and the Low Tech LOLs, LOLs.
Again, I read this.
I don't know what these were about.
I know they were hella annoying trying to read it and figure out what they were about.
They could have been great talks, but quite honestly, I couldn't have any less interest in this.
Somebody – I don't know.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with having a little fun, I guess, but I've got to have some information to see if I'm going to attend any of this stuff.
And based on what I saw, yeah, I'm going to LOL right past those talks.
You know, I read the title, and I just in my mind had said, oh, that's the LOL talk, okay.
And I saw the LOL talk three times on the schedule, and I was like, wow, they're really beating this LOL thing into the ground.
And I had no idea that they were different, so I just didn't even bother it.
I mean, if you've got five lines to talk about what you're going to be presenting, if you can't convince me within five lines,
if you can't even fucking make me understand kind of what you're talking about, then why am I going to waste an hour of my time?
Yeah, I mean –
But it could have been great.
I don't know.
Yeah.
The talk may have been amazing.
That's the thing is they really might have been, but because somebody didn't take it seriously, I guess, I don't know.
If any of them are listening, I'm going to get some hate mail for that, but I'm just being honest.
I wouldn't go see it if there's not enough information to tell me what it's about.
What am I getting into?
I mean, am I guaranteed to be lolling?
Will I be raffling at your thing?
Is this a comedy bit?
I don't – I really don't know what I'm in for.
I really don't.
So whatever.
I don't know.
Another one under the confusing titles was elliptic curve algorithms.
Now, this is just – that just seemed to be a strange topic for a hacking conference is what I thought, but it sounds like it could be interesting.
I probably would go to that one and see what it is in the first few minutes because I like mathematics in general, so it kind of grabs my attention.
I might go check that one out.
But not only that, but out of all the CFPs, he wins my award for the best CFP.
He was the favorite one.
I thought his was the coolest one to read, so go to the website, elliptic curve algorithms, and check out the CFP that he released.
I thought that was really, really cool.
And, yeah, I guess that's it.
And then the final one that made me – if anything made me lol, it was probably this one.
Tron, he fights for the user.
We have a Tron sighting, ladies and gentlemen.
Tron is back in the scene.
Actually, this was about a – at least this person put a description on there, which was kind of cool.
It was an actual tool, an application, so they were going into some detail about that.
But, you know, any reference to Tron is something that catches my eye.
Now, there also were a couple of – not to say that the others were not interesting.
Let me preface that.
But there were a couple that really grabbed my attention that I definitely would have gone out of my way to see.
The first one was called Breaking Ajax Web Applications.
That is my area of interest.
I like the software hacking side of things.
I like breaking things apart, seeing how they work, seeing if they're well designed and thought out and all that kind of stuff.
That's my level of interest.
And in my opinion, this topic – and I think I've said this before, but I'll go on record saying it again – this topic, this whole Web 2.0, AJAX, JavaScript, all this stuff, front-end scripting stuff,
hacking of these type of applications is going to rise tremendously over the next couple of years.
More and more people are going on to the whole Web 2.0 cliche and whatnot, and there's so much code out there that you can read through and see how things are working and exploit.
This is going to be a hot topic in the near future, especially with office applications going online through Web 2.0 stuff and lots of what they call SOA or service-oriented architecture.
Instead of you buying the software, you're buying the service that you run over the Web.
You don't have to install anything.
You don't have to set up a server, hire admins.
They'll do all that, and you just use your applications online remotely and stuff like that.
All these type of things are going to be the future of business, not only just websites and fun stuff, but business as well,
and I think this is going to be a huge, huge point of security over the coming years.
So I definitely would have gone to this one if I had made it.
It looks really interesting.
Unfortunately, that was one of the ones I was researching through.
Yeah, I was researching.
But, yeah, it looks really interesting, and I have to wonder about the way you were talking about how we're moving towards this Web 2.0, OMG, everything's online awesomeness.
You know, I think Google's got me believing that it's possible, but I'm really nervous about putting all my eggs in somebody else's basket.
I mean, in terms of uptime reliability and information assurance, I just feel really skeptical.
But, yeah, you're definitely seeing more of the move towards Ruby, towards Ajax, and all of these new Web 2.0 technologies.
I'm just waiting until someone just blows the whole thing wide open and a million worms crawl out,
and we've got a new breed of attack for us to earn our paychecks to feeding.
Yeah, I don't know if there's going to be, like, one exploit or even a handful that affect all of them,
because each application is going to be a case-by-case basis, but I certainly see it happening.
I also see, you know, the businesses are kind of liking this and going at it because it saves them a lot of money on not only licensing, but payroll.
Now, if you're anybody who's a first-year business student knows that the biggest cost in running a business is the human factor,
your human resources paying employees or salaries.
That's where the majority of your money comes from.
And if you don't have to hire sysadmins and security people and programmers to a certain extent to maintain a lot of your code,
you save a lot of money, so businesses are all for it.
However, I don't know if they're looking at the long-term possibilities or potential of this.
What happens if you're committing all your data remotely to somebody else?
I mean, sure, you're trusting them with a lot of information, but what happens if you decide you don't want to renew your contract
or you want to bring it back in-house?
I mean, you really are in a lot of danger of getting your data back.
I just don't trust anyone else having my data, especially important business data.
So, anyway, I guess that's getting off on a whole different tangent.
We'll bring it back a little bit, but another one of the interesting talks, and, again, I just like the programming side of things,
was there was one called C++ Reversing.
It looked interesting.
And, actually, here's one that you probably – did you attend the one?
It's called VoIP Attacks.
Yes.
You made it to that one.
You and I probably have different viewpoints on this because, to me, when I see a VoIP presentation these days,
I just go, okay, next, seen it, been there, done that, VoIP, I've seen all the VoIP presentations, I know what VoIP is,
I know some of the potential vulnerabilities.
Unless it's got a specific exploit that I want to see that I haven't heard or read about before,
I usually skip right past those, but I suspect you probably go to all of those,
just like I would go to maybe all the programming-related stuff.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I've hit every single VoIP talk I can.
And, like you said, a lot of it's repeat information.
Most of the attacks that we're seeing are generally either denial-of-service attacks against the phone
or the infrastructure or the user, and then the other one will be active man-in-middle capture and replay attacks,
effectively tapping the protocol and plugging it back.
The cool thing about this guy's talk was, first of all, he spiced it up a bit.
Well, this was Druid.
I'm sorry, this was Druid presenting this, right?
Yes, this was Druid.
Now, the one thing I've got to say that made me almost want to go see this one,
and actually I might have got, you know what, I would have gone to see it with someone else maybe,
but the way he put together his presentation, when I looked at his, he has his presentation online now,
and I looked through his slides and his description, it looked very well organized,
more so than any of the other VoIP presentations I've seen or heard from.
Because I usually go and look at all the presentations from every conference afterwards anyway,
and this one stood out to me a little bit in that it was very organized.
Was that the case with the actual talk?
Yeah, his presentation was really well organized.
He had a good flow that I thought made a lot of materials, a lot of it flowed from topic to topic.
He organized things by attack vector rather than necessarily by protocol or by where in the OSI model,
the actual attacks coming from, and he had injected little clips of videos from Mars attacks,
and he had a little rant at the beginning about how Tim Burton, his favorite director,
and it was one of his favorite movies, and it tended to break up the sections a little bit better.
He tried to make it relevant regarding, you know, what we're actually talking about in the attack.
Like, for example, impersonation attacks, like already spoofing.
He had a clip of them saying, we are your friends, while he's blasting them to pieces,
or whatever the hell the aliens are saying while they're turning everyone into vapor.
But basically the idea is, we're saying that you're your friend while we're killing you.
Right.
So that was kind of cool.
There were some technical problems with the sound, but that wasn't him at all.
I think that was the guy that was running the videos was actually messing around with the levels.
He didn't have any live demonstrations, which is really something that I'm always hoping for with a voice over IP attack.
Right.
A talk, excuse me.
But barring that, he has some good information.
We were talking about how we always see these same presentations.
And I wish the Druid's talk was the only voice talk that I had ever seen, because I think that he did it right the first time.
That's good.
All right.
Well, let's see.
Also, a couple other things that looked interesting, and I'm going to speed it up here as we start to run low on time,
was one called Ida Rub, Reverse Engineering with Ruby.
And truthfully, Ruby, I don't know too much about.
I don't like it, quite frankly.
I know I'll get hate mail and have in the past, but I didn't care for Ruby.
On the surface, it looked great, but then when I actually started looking into it, it was kind of anal, and I didn't like how, meh.
Anyway.
But one thing that I really did like about it was when I read the CFP and the speaker information, the speaker bios,
was that he wasn't affiliated with any security company, which kind of we alluded to earlier.
A lot of these people, I would dare say most of these people, work for a security company,
and their company flies them in and pays their way and all that kind of stuff.
There's nothing wrong with that or anything, but I always love seeing somebody who's keeping it real,
you know, somebody who's just hacking because they like it, because they enjoy it,
because they know what hacking's all about, doing it for themselves.
So I probably would have gone to see this for those two reasons combined.
Let's see.
There's another one called Polymorphic Shell Code at a Glance.
This is something that I would like to learn a lot more about,
so I definitely would have checked that one out as well.
And SQL Infections, Everything You Wanted to Know About SQL Injection.
Now, this one was from a gentleman who, well, you went to this one, did you, or no?
Yeah, I did.
You did, okay.
One of the ones that I went to.
Okay, well, let me say, the thing about this one is, A, I'm interested in that anyway,
but I kind of know, again, I feel like I know everything there is to know just about,
if not more so, about SQL Injection, but I looked again at his slides and his layout of his presentation
and everything, and the way he presented this talk, and I want to actually see this one.
If there's any that I'm going to get the video from, it would be this one.
He presented this the way that I would present this.
I've wanted to present on this topic for a while, and I haven't had time to put it together,
and I don't know if I will now, because the way his slides look, the way his layout look to me,
is exactly the way I would present it.
I get tired of the same old one equals one examples and whatnot,
so this is the way that I would have presented it based on what I saw in the slides,
and make people realize that it's not just about a one-trick pony that helps you log on to a web forum
by injecting a few special characters that cause the code to get screwed up.
It's more than that, and it could potentially be a lot more dangerous than that.
That's just a simple example that everybody uses for SQL injection, like that's all there is to it,
the end-all and be-all to it, and it's not.
Yeah, he has a great sense of humor when he gives his presentations, too.
It's funny.
You wouldn't know that he was making a joke.
You'd think that, oh, my God, are you serious?
Except maybe a slightly raised eyebrow and a slight smirk when he tries not to laugh at his jokes.
And like you said, it's not exactly an O-Day topic, but Matt knows the information so completely
that he can blaze past the boring stuff and quickly get on to some of the advanced topics
and make them nice and high-level.
And he and one of the co-workers from Spy Dynamics were some of my favorite people to talk to at the after-party.
One thing that he talked about was how most modern IDS and IPS systems will pick up on a SQL injection attack
by using the 1 equals 1 example.
And so he said, yeah, well, here's a leet O-Day technique of evading the IDS.
Use 2 equals 2.
And swear to God, most of them look for the literal string, and so 2 equals 2, which is still a logical truth,
passes by, and if injection's possible, we'll let you in.
So that was pretty cool.
All it has to be is a logical true.
It can be anything.
It could be pork equals pork.
It doesn't matter.
As long as it evaluates true, it's going to go through just fine.
So, yeah, that's funny.
And most people don't understand it exactly how it's working, so they don't know to change it from 1 equals 1.
They would think that that is the exploit, and it's not.
It's just evaluating true in the injection of the code.
So, again, he presented it the way that I would have presented it well.
So I think he probably did good justice to the topic.
And even though it's not zero day or whatever, like you said, that it's not a brand new specific exploit,
I think that this is something that most people still don't understand the detail of.
They know overview of what it is generally, but not any kind of level of detail.
So, yeah, I'm looking forward to see that.
And, yeah, he does work with a very good, very good friend of mine.
And I do not know Matt, though, that gave this presentation.
So I don't know how I've gotten by without meeting him.
But, yeah, I'll probably get together on an upcoming conference and chat with him about this.
So that would look cool.
Now, kind of wrap it up quickly here because we're running out of time fast.
There were a couple panels that I – yeah, I know I might piss somebody off, but I'm just going to call them filler material because they just – I could not be any less interested.
At least they didn't have LOL in the title, though.
But I –
Yeah, specifically, well, and you know what?
I – well, no, I'm going to stick with it.
It looked boring and I wouldn't attend it.
It was called the Nostalgia Panel.
And it's just like a nostalgia panel?
This is just, what, a bunch of old guys talking about things back in the day?
That just sounds so boring.
I've heard their stories before.
You know, I mean, that's as bad as, like, doing an episode of BinRev Radio where we do nothing but review a conference the whole time.
Yeah, well, why would we do that?
Yeah, oh, wait.
Boy, that was a bad choice of words.
I'll have to edit that out.
Anyway, the only thing is – the only thing that salvaged this a tiny bit is that we have a Captain Crunch sighting.
Is that correct?
That is correct.
Oh, man.
I got a video of it.
Now, first, let's preface this by saying that Crunch was not on the panel when it was submitted.
And I don't believe that he was on the panel until about 20 minutes before it went on when he asked, hey, can I be on the panel?
And the guys giving it, they were like, yeah, well, Nostalgia, Crunch, Crunch is Nostalgia, sure.
He's old.
It turned into the Crunch panel.
I didn't make the talk in person.
I bought it because a very good friend of mine, Damon, as an Apache, was in the talk.
And he looked so pissed when he got out of it.
I'm like, what's wrong, man?
Was it not good?
He's like, no.
I mean, it was cool when I got to talk for 10 seconds.
Crunch was actually, he would pick up the microphone at every possible injectable opportunity and hijack the conversation and made it, you know, something that happened 30 or 40 years ago.
So at one point somebody asked him, hey, Crunch, when was the last red possible call make?
And he goes, well, if I recall, it was back in 1995 at a library.
And someone, and then Damon picks up the microphone and says, TGI Friday is to work on seven last year.
And the whole audience busts up and looks on Crunch's face.
It's just, oh.
And he's like, well, I guess I stand corrected.
A little backstory behind that he's referring to when Damon and some of the members of the community were dicking around on the pay phones last year at TGI Friday.
But it is certainly still possible in some areas, but toll fraud is lame.
Yeah, officially for the record, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, all right.
And there was some other lame shit called tracksploits.
I mean, what kind of fucking waste of time bullshit was that?
Did you go to that one?
Yeah, it was some bullshit.
I was there, but I can honestly say I slept through it.
I hope not.
You know, the nice thing about it, as opposed to hope, was that more people were there.
And I was able to update the slides with some more relevant information regarding botnets and some of the other cool research that I've been doing.
And despite myself, managed to sneak in a couple jokes that I didn't realize were jokes until I watched the DVD after the fact and people were laughing at me.
Oh, wow.
So I'm hoping those were jokes.
Are you sure your fly wasn't down?
Well, I was standing behind a podium, so I know it was down.
Oh, okay.
Oh, yeah.
All right.
Giggity.
All right.
Yeah, giggity.
All right.
But, hey, I promise the next talk I do will not be track exploits, and it may not even have anything to do with any research that I'm doing with the company I work for.
Well, hey, actually, maybe you and I got something we can talk about, too, because we have a little project in the works, too.
Yeah, definitely.
We'll see how that goes.
All right.
So, anyway, I guess let's wrap this up.
Tracks happened all day Saturday and Sunday, not Friday, Saturday.
It was a Saturday-Sunday talk.
Now, for people like me, the late Sunday tracks were kind of a problem because even if I were to fly out there, let's say I was so hooked that I wanted to come out there, I just wanted to trip to San Diego, everything convinced me to go.
I got to fly back to the East Coast Sunday evening, a Sunday afternoon evening, because not only is it a long flight, but you've got three time zones to cross.
I mean, if I stay and see those late talks until 10 o'clock at night, I think some of them went on, I mean, it would be a red-eye coming back.
I'd be getting there, you know, 7, 8, 9 in the morning.
I mean, that's – if you've got to fly back to the East Coast through that, I almost get the feeling they don't want people from the East Coast coming.
They don't want people outside of Cali to attend.
They want to – I guess we're supposed to go to ShmooCon, and you guys are supposed to go to TourCon or something like that.
Yeah.
It almost felt like they had a lot of no-dos.
Well, that's a shame, because some of the talks were on Sunday evening that looked pretty decent.
But, again, the videos, they're going to make videos available.
Do you know anything about, like, are they going to be online?
Are they downloadable for free?
Do you have to buy them?
Are they going to be, like, purchasing –
I'm pretty sure you're going to have to buy them.
The ShmooCon – the same guy that did the ShmooCon videos did the videos this time around.
But since they were now selling the ShmooCon videos for $20 a pop instead of a free download,
I can only assume that these will not be made available online.
I think the audio might be, but that's a big might, as previous TourCons have not uploaded any sort of audio.
And the guy who did the recording wasn't actually a part of the conference.
He was just some dude who showed up with some cameras and got a press badge.
Hmm.
Yeah, and I wonder what their licensing will be, even if they don't put them up online,
if they will be against putting them – other people putting them up online.
Because one thing I do like about Hope and always have liked is they don't care and they don't mind you putting them up.
They even encourage you putting out torrents and whatever and sharing them.
I mean, you can also buy them, which, like, people like me, I do like to have copies burned of a lot of this stuff.
But if there's something that's like a fringe, something that's borderline interesting,
like the nostalgia panel I want to see now only because of Crunch.
So I might download that, but I sure as shit aren't going to pay for it.
Well, when they gave the copyright notices at the beginning of each DVD,
it's interesting that they gave credit to each of the present presenters
and co-copyright ownership to the people who recorded it.
So maybe if I give my permission to have my talk put online, for example,
then that might be legally legit.
Oh, cool.
I'll look into it.
All right, we'll check that out.
All in all, though, and we're really running a long time.
All in all, compared to the other cons you've been to,
this one seems better organized, at least, from the website and stuff.
And you're saying that this was kind of a little bit leaning more towards security
and stuff like that.
All in all, did you, well, I mean, let's just say, did you enjoy the conference?
Let's make it easy.
Oh, I loved it.
Yeah, I had a great time.
It was one of my favorites.
So you definitely would encourage people.
It is definitely worth going to.
It's 300 or 400 people, so it's not small, but it's not a DEF CON.
It's not big thousands of people like Hope and DEF CON either.
So it's a nice medium-sized con.
So, yeah, if this was near me, I would definitely, definitely attend this.
But being on the West Coast, it's a little bit out of my jurisdiction.
Well, is there anything else to mention before we wrap up the show?
No, man, that was it.
It was a good conference.
Make it out if you can.
If you can, if you cannot, go to Schmook on them.
Cool, good deal.
All right, so let's move into some shouts tonight.
I'll go ahead and do mine first and stall for you to think of your shouts.
First shouts go to Enigma, who's been doing a great job helping us get caught up on the show notes.
So, as a matter of fact, not only to Enigma, but I'll give shout-outs to the whole BR813 meeting over there in Tampa.
Everybody over there gets shouts, but it's all thanks to Enigma.
He did all the work to give all of you guys shouts at the BR813.
So buy the guy a cookie or something at your next meeting.
I would say buy him a drink, but, you know, we don't want to go there.
None of the legalities of some of that stuff.
So, and actually, I might head across the state and maybe take in a meeting over there sometime soon.
So if I can work that into my schedule, I will try to do that.
And, oh, I definitely got to give shouts to Natus for getting published in the current 2600 magazine.
Very cool.
And the article, the article was several months old.
I watched it from the beginning.
I watched it develop as he wrote it and worked on it and edited it and got it to where it is.
And not just because he's, you know, he's my dog, but it ended up to be a damn good article.
I really did think it was a pretty freaking good article in my personal opinion.
And I'm always right, as we said earlier in the show.
So there you go.
So what do you got for shouts this week?
All right.
Shouts first off to everybody at Spy Dynamics.
You guys rock.
I had a great time talking to you, and I hope that we stay in contact.
Everybody involved in TourCon, it was a great conference.
And I will see you guys at the 2600 meetings.
Verbal and Strom, thanks for driving down and flying down to come hang out at the conference.
And Tiffany, a.k.a. Vicarious Geek, for being the coolest geek I know that doesn't actually own a computer.
Okay.
And our site of the week is pretty easy this week.
It's tourcon.org.
Email, feedback of any kind should go to radio at binrev.com.
And just a quick reminder, if you send feedback anywhere else, it's not going to get read on the air.
If you send it to StankDog or to anybody individually, only stuff that comes to radio at binrev.com is going to be usable on the air.
Let's see.
Closing music.
Actually, we're going to use your, I don't know, does it have a name?
Yeah, it's the StankDog Underworld I'm a Fucking Moron Remix Part 2.
There you go.
By our very own Savant.
So that is going to do it for this episode of the show.
And Savant, thank you again for being on the show.
Thank you.
We will see everybody next week.
Same Hack Time.
Same Hack Channel.
I am StankDog.
All right, I suck at this radio thing.
I suck at the talking.
I'm a fucking moron.
I believe it.
I honestly feel that way.
So, hey, whatever.
I'm a fucking moron.
It's a very hard and expensive lesson to learn.
All right, I don't even know what else to say.
I'm a fucking moron.
I will suck it up and admit, I'm a fucking moron.
Fear, period.
Anyways, you're here.
You can't spell or complete the proper sentence.
Does this guy have ADD?
What's going on here?
You should inform the masses.
You all know I'm going to fail.
I'm a fucking moron.
I know all of our listeners are all brilliant.
But I'm oversimplifying.
I am so mental.
I don't even know where to begin.
I wonder why no one's thought of that yet.
I'm the worst radio voice ever.
Seriously.
I'm a fucking moron.
So, I'll give you that.
I can see that.
What is so complicated technically about this?
This is something that's been a problem for us for like the last month or more.
I thought I'd put that in the show notes.
Warning sign, signal.
Beep, beep, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Watch the fuck out.
These should be big warning signs.
Am I right?
Seriously.
I'm a fucking moron.
Oh, me.
The guy who does this fucking radio show.
That might not grab your attention.
Yeah, I gave my account number to some guy in Nigeria last week.
I don't have an eBay account.
I'm a fucking moron.
How perverse am I?
Where's my mind?
We didn't hear the dip.
Jacking off...
Rucks balls, dude.
We're not making it easy for us to get off.
It's not sexy if we don't hear this dip.
Bow chicka bow wow.
I'm a fucking moron.
Gay.
All right.
I'm laughing at that.
That's good stuff.
I'm just a moron.
Dad, I was really laughing.
T portie.
I saw your...
ummm...
Well, it's not a ged'.
Death gonna be it?
You're...
You're like,
Yeah, you Formula Pisi.
That's it.
You're like,
Zayu Chen.
It's a depression.
No,
You're like,
I'm sick.
You're like,
I'm like,
You're like,
Let's go,
um, um, um, um, um, gay, I'm a fucking moron. It was amazing, leaked, that's leaked, fear
too, it was amazing, leaked, fear, period, anyway, fear, okay, so, so, global interweb, for
crying out loud, I mean, come on, what the fuck is Wells Fargo, oh, you've got to be kidding
me, I am so mental, I don't even know where to get on, savant, I'm a fucking moron, oh
my god, okay, and, I mean, listen, I'm not one to talk, I, I, I, I, I'm, I'm answering
my own question here, I mean, I'm, I'm picking some things up on this, I'm a fucking moron,
really, like, seriously, I'm a fucking moron, yes, I gave my account number to somebody on
email, so, yeah, I gave my account number to some guy in Nigeria last week, okay, let
me, let me back up and, and phrase my words correctly here, I'm a fucking moron, I give
goodness, you have got your dick in your own ass, this was rad, what do they call it, covert
amateurs, amateur porn, I should be allowed to come to your house and punch you in the
stomach, for the record, I don't beat kids, I just starve when I punch them, I kick them
in the neck, those pictures are supposed to be private, and I appreciated it, you guys got
home, global interweb, fucking myspace, myspace.com slash boobs, thinking fuck source database
just a little bit, it was a movie, what do they call it, covert amateur porn, you're too
fucking stupid to own a computer, yeah, I'm a fucking moron.