This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you and a fag poned
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast
You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattling earphones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Hello everybody and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio
I am Stank Dog joining you this evening
And this evening being of course February 6th, 2007
See how I enunciate 6th?
That's a tough word to say on the radio
You know it sounds like you have a lisp when you say that
It is February 6th, 2007
That's 2-6-2-0-0-7
And our co-host this evening is our good friend
The superstar of the show and the inventor of the 24 hours of porn
Natus
Yes, that's me
That's Hank
Sprung that one on you there, didn't I?
Yeah
That put me on the spot
And do we want to let everybody in on that end joke
Or are we just going to go on with it?
No, let's let them hang
Okay, we'll leave them hanging
I am still on my cherry Kool-Aid kick
So no sweet tea this week for me
But, actually we should probably warn people up front
That this episode is in danger of being cut short
Because there's some phone problems up there around you
Is that right?
That's correct
I don't know what the hell is going on exactly at this point
But it's been going on about 6 hours now
That Verizon's been having some really big issues here
Cell phones and landlines were down for a while
I couldn't make any long distance calls
Or local calls from either
But my cell phone's working again
Landlines are still not working though
The whole time data connections still work with my cell phone
And I can receive calls
Landlines can receive calls too
But for some reason we can't make long distance or local calls
Now, your data, you're on EVDO, right?
Not here, we don't have EVDO
Oh
Lower version
Wow
Sucks to be in Vermont
It's still working
What's that?
It sucks to be in Vermont
I don't know how I can do without my EVDO
Yeah, I know
Some places here have it but not here
Where I'm living
I actually, I do run into that a lot
With all my travel and stuff for work
I end up in these remote places
Where I can't get any kind of high speed connection at all anyway
So I feel you
Yeah, I'd like to say that
They'll have it here by the end of the year
End of 2007
But you never know
They might not
Gotcha
I feel your pain
I'm laying a little microphone adjustment on the fly there
Because I'm not sure if it was picking us up very well
So we'll just do that in time as we continue on
You got any kind of housekeeping you want to talk about
Other than the phones down?
Of course, this is Monday that the phones are down
We're recording this Monday
But it's actually streaming on the 6th
So it's no secret that we record usually a day or two before
Do not stream live yet
Except on maybe a rare occasion
But that's neither here nor there
So any other housekeeping?
I just wanted to let people know that my radio show PBX
And the toll-free diverter are back up
Drop the docs, son
Drop them
Word
Actually, I don't have the number for the diverter in front of me
Dude, how do you not
I'm trying to pull it up here on the forum
But the number for the radio show PBX now
Is area code 218-339-8520
And I just updated it with one of your shows last week
So it's a little outdated now
Alright, and for people who have no idea what you're talking about
Your radio show PBX, of course, allows them to
It allows them to call in and listen to their favorite hacker radio show
So there's shows on there like Default Radio
Bin Rev
RFA
What else is on there?
PLA Radio
And why would they want to dial in and do this when they kind of got the interweb?
Well, it doesn't make sense really to me if you're at your computer personally
But maybe they
I don't know
Maybe you're just stuck somewhere random
And the only thing you have is your cell phone
Yeah, and actually where I was going
I've heard people tell me that they've dialed in
And listened to episodes while driving their car
They put their cell phone on speaker
Yep
And just sit there and listen to the shows while they're driving along
Yep
Especially if you're driving in some remote part of
Oh, I don't know, West Texas that has no radio coverage
It's kind of nice to have something like that there
I'm just saying
Anyway
Did you find your other number?
It's right below here
Well, while you look that up, I'll talk about it
I guess this isn't really so much housekeeping
It's more of the old-fashioned show-and-tell
Which I won't go too much
But there's been a lot of good stuff to read
There's a lot of good reading material out there right now
So I wanted to kind of recommend some of it
First of all, Vaughn Magazine
The new issue of Vaughn Magazine came out
I just got one today in the mail, actually
Yeah, normally I don't
I skim through this
I'll be honest, I don't usually read it
Unless there's an article or something in there that catches my eye
An interview with somebody specific
You know, like Mark Spencer or something I read
Well, this current one has an interview with Phil Zimmerman
And, you know, actually
Alright, I'll kind of take an aside here
You know, there's a few
There's a small handful of people
In the hacking scene, I guess if you want to call it that
Or security scene
Or I don't even know if he'd want to be called that
But there's a few people in
Let's call it interweb history then
That I just have a lot of respect for
That they really changed the game
They really changed the internet as we know it
And one of those people is Phil Zimmerman
And inventing PGP
Which was just a huge
I mean, it really changed the game
It really did
So I have nothing but the utmost respect for
People like him
So there's a good interview with him in Vaughn Magazine
So I recommend anybody go out and
Pick that up if you're interested in that sort of thing
Yeah, I actually got a new issue of Vaughn today
So that's actually the old issue now
Oh, you just got a new, new one today? Really?
Yep, yeah
I'm ready
Well, I guess I should be getting another one soon too
I don't know when I got this
I've mentioned on the show before
I have so many magazine subscriptions
That I come home from work
I throw them into a stack
So I know it's recent
It's the most recent one I have
You know that you can download those
You can download full issues of Vaughn Magazine
From their website
Well, I did not know that
And that's something good for our listeners
So grab last month's Vaughn for Phil Zimmerman
And do they make the current issue available as well?
Yeah, I'm not sure if it's up there right now
You see, a lot of these magazines
Especially these trade magazines
They'll put up their stuff online
Sometimes they'll only put up the previous issue
Because a lot of them still sell on the store shelves
And they want you to go buy it
But they'll put it up
Yeah, they put up their most recent issue though
I don't know if the new one's up yet
I'm trying to go to the website right now and check
Cool
Well, and another
Actually, there's so much
I don't have time to mention all of it
Another interesting one I read was
It's called Baseline Magazine
B-A-S-E-L-I-N-E
It's another trade magazine
Again, it's one that I usually just skim through
But if they have an article that interests me
I might skim at
I might read it more thoroughly
And this issue had an article on MySpace
Which caught my eye
Especially for considering it's a trade magazine
What the hell are they talking about MySpace?
But they were talking about basically
In terms of scalability
And how quickly it grew
And how they handled it
So it was kind of interesting from that standpoint
And I didn't
They definitely handled it a lot better than Facebook too
Or not Facebook, Friendster
Yeah
That was a huge issue at the time
Well, it's one of those things that like
Things grow fast on the interweb
They really do
Yeah
They really do
I mean, hell, I don't know
We're facing growing pains recently
We're all well aware of that
You have to be able to keep up with it
Or otherwise you jeopardize yourself
Yeah, and it's one thing
If you're actually a company making money like they are
But it's even more another thing altogether
When you're a schmuck like me
Trying to pay out of pocket
Not thinking it's going to be like this
So what can I tell you?
I'm a putz
But the interesting thing
And I didn't know this about MySpace
But they are a Microsoft shop
They are powered by IIS
And all the databases powered by SQL Server 2005
So I thought that was kind of interesting
And vulnerable
So yeah
You know, the new 2600 came out
Within the past month I think
So I've been catching up reading on that
I think I already mentioned this before
But Shouts to Royal had a great article
A really good article actually in there
And Tokachu had an article in there
Another member from our forums
And someone else
I think there were three
Oh my gosh
Now I'm probably leaving somebody out
But there were some articles in there
From people from our forums
Friends that we know
Or friends of friends
And there was some code in there again
So there was some good stuff this time
Looks like a decent issue
I haven't finished it yet
But so far
It's one of the
It's not one of the worst so far
How about that?
We'll word it that way
Yeah
Yeah, I was a little disappointed
Because I sent them another article
And I really wanted to have
Like back-to-back articles
But see, they're so weird
The way they do that
I mean, I sent them an article
I kid you not, Nat
If I sent them an article one time
That they published
One year later
Yeah, so hopefully
It'll be in the next issue
Weird
You never know
I think maybe just
Some of them are like
Maybe some of the articles
Are like borderline
And they only end up
You saving them
If they need to fill
One or two pages or something
They'll pull one
So I don't know
I don't know how they make
Those determinations
What can I tell you?
Let's see
Okay, you were going to
Look up the number
Did you find the number?
I'm not stalling for you anymore
No, yeah, I did
It's
Alright, the number for the
Toll-free diverter
Is
218-339-8591
Okay
You can enter
Any toll-free number to call
And I just want to give out
The URL for the
Vaughn Magazine
Website too
To read it online
It's
VaughnMag-Digital.com
It's not actually
Right on the VaughnMag site
Oh, VaughnMag
V-O-N-M-A-G
Dash
Digital
Dot com
Yep
Cool
Good to know
So, do they have an
RSS feed by chance?
Hold on, let me look
That'd be interesting
Maybe we can put that in the forums
If there's enough interest
I don't know
In our news feed section
But anyway
While
That doesn't look like they do
Yeah
And I'm not sure if we
Is it PDF based
Or is it
Browsable text
HTML
Um
Not really either
It's like
It looks like it's a
I don't know
You like
Go through it like a PDF
But it's not really a PDF
Oh, well
I'm not going to go check it out
During the show
So, I guess our
Listeners can go do that
For themselves
If they are interested
Meanwhile, you and I
Are going to move
Into some email
Okay, so
Email this week is fairly short
Because
As I mentioned on the last episode of the show
We were having some mail problems
That sounded pretty out of context
Um
Yeah, not that kind of
M-A-I-L problems
Not M-A-L-E problems
Um
At least myself
Natus, you having any
Man problems?
Or
Nope, not at this time
Okay, so we are both clear
Um
But
Mail server problems
I
Uh
As you
As I mentioned last week
I should say
We switched servers
Well, the last casualty
That I was having to deal with
And debug was
The mail
None of the mail accounts
Came over
So
I did get them all recreated
And tested
So
They are working again
However
Any mail that somebody
Might have sent
While we were moving
Didn't know where to go
There was no mail server
Up and running
On any of those IP addresses
To receive it
So everything would have
Gotten bounced
And lost
Completely
So if you did send an email
In that time frame
And we haven't
Read it on the air
I haven't gotten back to you
Through IRC
Or something else
Um
Then you probably want to
Resend it
But
That being said
We look like we are
Back up and running now
Also
In case there's
I should have mentioned
This earlier
Maybe in the housekeeping
But if there's any of you
Uh
Adventurous hack sores
Who uh
Think you got a hold
Of the password hash
While we were having
All those problems
Or looking that up
In the php file
Those of course
Have been changed
As well
So don't waste your time
All right
Let's see here
First email this week
Comes from
Vegita
Which is a
Dragon Ball Z
Reference I think
Vegita says
Dear Stank
Or other host
And Slack co-host
I think that covers
All the bases
So dear Stank
And Natus
I wanted to take the time
To tell you something
About Windows Vista's
Speech recognition
Engine
Are you using the Vista
Yet there Natus
I had it on a test
Computer at my house
And um
It was like the RC copy
So it expired
After 30 or 60 days
Something like that
So no
I don't have Vista
But you tried it
For a little bit
Yeah I wasn't impressed
At all
I don't really like it
Yeah
Liked it the first time
When it was called
OSX
But anyway
Uh let's see
When I heard that
Windows Vista
Had finally been released
I was curious to see
Its new features
So I went online
And visited
Microsoft.com
To see it for myself
But one in particular
Caught my attention
I guess one thing
In particular
Caught my attention
It was the
Speech recognition system
Now Microsoft states
That the system
Is one of a kind
But seeing the awful
Mistakes it makes
When it comes to
Dictating
I knew that they
Have
I knew that they
Have copied the
Idea from somewhere
So I started
Browsing the web
To find
But I started
Browsing the web
To find the source
Program
I'm stumbling
Over words here today
And I'm adjusting
The microphone again
Because it's something
Seems to have
Shifted
I started browsing
The web to find
The source program
Don't get me wrong
This is pretty good
When it comes to
Controlling the computer
By talking
Such as
Quote
Double click
Computer
Or
Quote
Open notepad
But when it comes
To dictating
It performs
Poorly
And if I had it
On my system
And was reading
This email
I wonder if it
Would be double
Clicking the computer
And open notepad
Anyway
That's because
When controlling
The computer
The system knows
That it only has
To listen
For a few commands
Such as
Double click
That
Delete
That
Then I found
This
And he gives
A URL to
Nuance.com
That's
N-U-A-N-C-E
Dot com
Slash
Talk
T-A-L-K
It's called
Dragon Naturally
Speaking
And it's the best
Software in the business
I found that there
Were similarities
Between Microsoft
Windows Speech
Recognition
And Dragon
Naturally Speaking
Such as spelling
A word
Or correcting
A mistake
By choosing
From a drop
Down menu
And since
Dragon Naturally
Speaking
I'm going to call
That DNS
From now on
No I guess
I better not
Confuse people
I'll just call it
Dragon
Since Dragon
Naturally Speaking
Is at version 9
And Windows Vista
Is fresh off the market
You can clearly see
Who copied
Whom
Now in that demo
The guy is speaking
Very fast
But the system
Recognizes almost
Everything
I wouldn't be surprised
If Microsoft
Tried to buy
The company
Because that's
Their way
Of dealing
With things
When they can't
Create a competitive
Program
They try to buy
Another company
That does
As for the
Operating system
Itself
It's eating up
Too many resources
And doing nothing
To show
And doing nothing
To show for
It
I guess
Apart from the
Cool eye candy
And the 3D view
Windows Vista
Is a bust
I'm sorry
For buying
That software
They keep
Bragging
About security
But I don't
Feel more secure
I get the same
Amount of viruses
I got before
In my
Licensed version
Of Windows XP
If you find
This information
Interesting
Please read it
On the show
Well we did
Oh and by the way
I wrote this
Entire message
Using Dragon
Naturally Speaking
With only a few
Mistakes
And I only have
Version 8
Imagine what
Version 9
Could do
I'm not trying
To advertise this
Program
Yeah sure
I'm not even
From the United
States
I'm only trying
To state the
Fact that
Microsoft sucks
Big time
And when people
Start complaining
And when shit
Hits the fan
They steal other
Ideas and
Take them for
Their own
So Mr. Bill Gates
Thank you for that
License key
And thank you for
Making Vista
So fool
Foolproof I think
But you can go
Fuck yourself
Yeah
Alright
Wait a minute
Let me
Hold on
I didn't end that
With the
Proper gusto
Let me
Go back
Again
Bill Gates
Thank you
For that
License key
And thank
You for
Making Vista
So foolproof
But you can
Go fuck
Yourself
Did that sound
More
Is that more
Convincing that
Way
Fuck yeah
Alright
Alright so
Alright let me
Back up a little
Bit here
We did do
Some
I did do
A Microsoft
I did do
A Vista
Mini review
I've been
Using it
For a few
Months now
The final
Release
The gold
Whatever
From a month
And a half
However long
Before Christmas
So there
Are some
Things about it
That I like
There's some
Things I dislike
I'm learning
A little bit
More as I
Go along
Each day
Practically
I'm not
Using it
On my
Daily
Everyday
Computer
But I
Have been
Playing around
With it
So yeah
It's got some
Issues here
And there
And it's
Certainly
It really
Is very
OSX
Like
It really
Is
They copied
A lot
Of stuff
It's pretty
Obvious
They didn't
Copy it
Well though
That's the
Thing
Well they
Copied some
Of the
Concepts
I guess
And some
Of the
Eye candy
Yeah
That's really
What they
Focused on
It seems
Like the
Biggest
Improvement
Was in
The eye
Candy
Side of
Things
Making
It look
Prettier
And frankly
Dumbing it
Down
I really
Feel like
I'm using
A
What was
That old
Microsoft
Bob
Like where
They
Dumbed it
All down
Trying to
Make a
Metaphor
Of a
Desk
Then
Like if
You're
Too dumb
To go
To start
Notepad
They put
A picture
Of a
Notepad
On the
Desk
That's
What it
Feels
Like trying
To use
Some of
This
Stuff
It's
Like
All these
Menus
And sub
Menus
That have
Different
Related
Topics
In it
Like
Putting
All your
Games
Into
One
Menu
I guess
It's
Kind of
Cool
If you're
A
Gamer
But
To me
It's like
Look
I'm not
Retarded
I can
Find the
Fucking
Game
From the
Start
Menu
If I
Want to
Play it
You know
But it's
Got
It's got
A bunch
Of
Gaming
Things in
There
Like
You can
Control
Based on
The rating
Who you
Want to
Play it
Or not
And
I don't
Know
I think
You can
Tweak
Some other
Configurations
With them
I don't
Know what
The hell
I'm
Talking
About
I'm
Not a
Gamer
But
Anyway
I've never
Hated Microsoft
Until now
Do you really
Hate
Why
You didn't
Even hardly
Use it
Well I know
But I
Really
Didn't
Like it
Hmm
I don't
Know
I'm
Going to
Give it
Time
Let
Grow
On
Me
I mean
And I
Don't
Like
IE7
Either
So that
Really
Pissed
Me
Off
Well
The thing
About
IE7
Is
Somehow
It
Well I
Guess
It's
Typical
Microsoft
It's
Very
Bloated
And
Slow
For
Me
I
Mean
Opening
Up
A
New
Tab
It's
So
Horribly
Slow
Even
If
It's
A
Blank
Tab
The
Tab
Implementation
The way
They
Did
It
To
I
Think
Sucks
Well
One
Thing
I
Do
Like
That
They
That
They
Had
In
The
Early
Betas
I
Think
Before
I
Don't
Remember
Firefox
Has
This
Or
Not
I
Think
It
Does
Now
But
At
The
Time
They
Didn't
Start
Up
Automatically
Now
I
Don't
Really
Know
Many
People
That
Would
Need
That
But
I
Thought
It
Was
Kind
Of
A
Nice
Feature
But
The
Other
Thing
I
Don't
Like
About
It
Is
I
Can't
Find
I
Listen
Sometimes
I
Just
Want
To
Go to
Click
On
File
Save
As
That's
It
Now
Where's
The
Fucking
File
Save
As
You
Move
Some
Shit
Over
Here
You
Move
Some
Shit
Over
There
I
Don't
Even
Know
Where
Any
Of
The
Utility
Stuff
Is
Anymore
They
Moved
All
That
Shit
Around
That's
Fucking
Ridiculous
And
The
Same
Thing
While
I'm
On
This
Fucking
Soapbox
What
Pisses
Me
Off
Also
Is
Fucking
Windows
Media
Player
27
Or
Whatever
The
Fuck
That's
Up
To
I
Can't
Do
That
Either
I
Can't
Go
To
File
Save
I
Can't
Go
To
Look
At
A
Tag
It's
Like
Do
You
Want
To
Add
This
To
Library
No
Fuck
The
Library
I
Want
To
See
The
File
How
Big
Is
It
How
Long
Is
The
File
Who
Owns
The
File
What
The
Fuck
Is
The
File
Name
I
Don't
Give
Up
Don't
Add
To
My
Library
No
Don't
Burn
It
To
A
CD
Don't
Rip
That
Shit
Just
Tell
Me
About
The
Fucking
File
Why
Is
That
So
Hard
To
Be
Honest
But
I
Had
It
I
Just
Haven't
Had
Time
To
Play
Around
With
It
Too
Much
I
Heard
That
They
Move
The
Menus
Around
Too
Like
They
Did
With
Internet
Oh
Man
Well
You
Know
What
Though
On
That
One
It
Might
Not
Bother
Me
As
Much
Cause
I
Will
Use
The
Keyboard
Shortcuts
More
Than
Anything
So
As
Long
As
They
Change
Those
If
They
Change
Those
I
I'm
Stomping
Somebody's
Balls
Yeah
That
Would
Really
Suck
But
The
Thing
That
I
Really
Don't
Like
About
Vista
I
Don't
Know
What
You
Think
About
This
But
I
Mean
Every
Time
You
Go
To
Change
Something
By
Default
It
Comes
Up
With
That
Security
Like
Do
You
Want
To
Change
The
Date
And
Time
Are
You
Sure
You
Want
To
Do
That
Right
Yeah
It
They
Cut
Down
On
That
In
The
Final
Release
It
Doesn't
Happen
As
Often
As
It
Did
With
Me
In
The
Beta
Version
Oh
Really
They
Did
Change
A
Little
Bit
But
It
Still
Happens
A
Lot
Anything
That
Does
Any
Kind
Of
System
Changes
Or
Whatever
It
Will
Warn
You
But
Also
Don't
Get
That
Mixed
Up
With
A
Separate
Type
Of
Warning
If
You
Ever
Try
Run
Anything
Through
Internet
Explorer
Or
Anything
Like
That
It's
Also
Going
To
Pop
Up
A
Security
Dialogue
Box
Oh
Yeah
And
Then
That
Stupid
Anti
Phishing
Thing
That
You
Can't
Turn
Off
With
I7
That
Is
So
You
Can't
Turn
That
Off
It
Comes
Up
It
Is
Related
To
Demolition
Construction
It
Tells
Me
That
It
Might
Be
A
Phishing
Site
Terrible
I
Could
Swear
You
Could
Turn
That
Off
Somewhere
I
Turn
It
Off
But
It
Still
Pop
Up
Well
Then
It's
Not
Turned
Off
Then
Is
It
Apparently
Not
I
Guess
Not
Anyway
All
That
Being
Said
I
Didn't
Even
Realize
Or
Try
Any
Of
The
Audio
Control
Whatever
The
You
Talk
It
Speech
Recognition
Stuff
At
All
I
Didn't
Even
Realize
There
Was
Any
I
Didn't
Think
About
I
Got
Ultimate
Edition
Ultimate
Version
Whatever
The
Hell
It
Is
Called
The
X-Men
Version
That
Has
All
The
Full
Powers
And
Everything
And
I
Didn't
Even
Realize
I
Might
Go
Try
It
Now
That
I
Got
This
Email
And
Told
Me
About
It
Yeah
I
Thought
It
Was
There
But
I
Didn't
Have
A
Microphone
On
My
Computer
To
Go try
It
Yeah
And
I
Don't
Either
But
I
Can
Install
One
Easily
Enough
But
The
To
Attend
We
Had
It
In
The
Labs
And
I
Played
With
It
A
Little
Bit
Back
Then
And
I
Thought
It
Was
I
Mean
It
Made
Mistakes
But
Yeah
I
Thought
It
Was
Fairly
Accurate
And
I
Could
Really
Swear
That
I
Used
A
Later
Version
Of
It
Six
Maybe
And
I
Just
I
Still
Made
The
Same
Mistakes
Or
Not
The
Same
They
Still
Made
As
Many
Mistakes
It
Seem
Like
I
Didn't
See
That
There
Was
Any
Big
Improvement
Between
Early
Versions
And
Later
Versions
I
Mean
I
Think
You
Said
Something
About
Imagine
What
Nine
Could
Do
Is
You're
Using
Eight
Right
Now
I
Really
Don't
Know
Maybe
I
Just
Don't
Have
As
Much
Experience
With
Them
But
I
Never
Saw
That
Big
Of
A
Difference
Between
One
Versus
The
Other
I
Thought
It
Was
All
About
Training
Them
So
That
They
Recognize
Your
Voice
And
Your
Speech
Patterns
And
Your
Slurs
So
If
You've
Got
A
Lisp
For
A
Speech
Impediment
Or
Something
Like
That
It
Actually
Can
Learn
That
And
Start
Associating
That
Sound
With
A
Different
Letter
Or
A
Different
Group
Of
Letters
Or
Sound
That
It
Is
Expecting
And
Actually
Grow
And
Adapt
With
It
So
I
Thought
You
Just
Have
To
Train
It
To
Make
It
More
Accurate
But
I
Don't
Know
How
Many
Breakthroughs
Or
How
Much
Change
There
Is
In
The
Algorithms
Themselves
Have
You
Ever
Used
Any
Kind
Of
Speech
Recognition
Stuff
Have
I
Yeah
I
Don't
Think
I
Have
I
Want
To
Say
Maybe
Back
In
High
School
Like
We
Tried
Something
Out
For
One
Of
My
Typing
Class
That
Was
A
While
A
I
It
Might
Be
Nice
Yeah
I
Mean
What
Am I
Stephen Hawking
Or
Something
Here
I
Don't
Know
I
It
Might
Be
Nice
If
I
Wanted
To
Like
Dictate
An
Article
I
Might
Try
That
Maybe
I'll
Do
That
As
An
Experiment
For
An
Upcoming
Article
I'll
Actually
Try
To
Dictate
The
Entire
Thing
Through
Dragon
Or
Vista
Or
Whatever
I
Can
Dig
Up
And
See
If
I
Can
Make
It
Through
An
Entire
Article
Without
Getting
Completely
Frustrated
And
Punching
The
Monitor
Anyway
Next
Email
This
Week
And
Our
Last
Email
For
This
Week
Comes
From
Our
Good
Longtime
Friend
Livindead
Says
Hello
BinRev
Hosts
Savant
Mentioned
The
GPG
Plugin
For
Thunderbird
Though
Did
Not
Mention
The
Name
I'm
Assuming
He
Meant
Enigma
Which
Is
At
Enigma
Dot
Mozdev
Dot
Org
Now
That's
E-N-I-G-M-A-I-L
Dot
M-O-Z-D-E-V
Dot
Org
I
Should
Have
Tiny
Urled
It
But
I'm
Lazy
Which
I
Have
Been
Using
For
A
While
Now
And
How
And
How
And
Have
Found
It
To
Work
Nicely
Comes
With
A
Nice
GUI
To
Create
And
Manage
Your
Public
Private
Keys
And
Will
Even
Submit
Them
To
Public
Key
Servers
As
Far
As
Encrypted
Partitions
I
If
You
Haven't
Seen
True
Crypt
Yet
You
Can
Go
Over
To
True
Crypt
Dot
Org
And
Grab
A
Copy
For
Whichever
Operating
System
You
Are
Using
Basically
It
Just
Creates
A
File
That
Is
The
Size
You
Specify
And
Builds
An
Encrypted
File
System
On
It
Allowing
You
To
Mount
It
Through
The
True
Crypt
Program
So
Thank
You
Live
And
Dead
Yes
I
Know
That
We
Talked
About
Tour
When
Mahama
Man
Anyway
Talk
About
True
Crypt
On
Many
Previous
Episodes
Enigma
Sounds
Familiar
But
I
Don't
I
I've
Never
Used
It
Before
I
Actually
Started
Downloading
It
From
This
Email
I
Actually
Went
Out
And
Started
Downloading
It
Because
I
Would
Like
Something
To
Start
Using
More
Regularly
But
It
Relies
On
GPG
Obviously
And
I
I'm
In
The
Process
Of
Installing
It
On
The
Again
My
Statement
That
I
Made
And
I
Still
Hold
To
Is
That
It's
Not
Ready
For
Your
Common
Everyday
User
To
Install
Installing
And
Configuring
GPG
By
Itself
Without
A
GUI
It's
Just
I
Mean
It'll
Install
But
It's
Still
A
Command
Line
Application
Until
They
Make
It
So
That
It's
All
GUI
It's
Easily
Set
Up
I
Mean
It's
Just
I
Don't
Know
It's
Just
Still
Kind
Of
Cumbersome
It's
GPG
Self
Not
So
Much
That
Enigma
Plugin
But
Once
You
Get
It
Up
And
Running
Maybe
The
Enigma
Plugin
Will
Automate
And
Make
It
A lot
Easier
And
Like
I
I'll
Install
That
Soon
Because
I
Do
Want
That
And
Try
It
Myself
But
It's
Just
The
Concept
I
Mean
All
This
Everybody
You
Know
Most
Of
Us
In
The
Linux
World
And
Hackers
Work
I'm
Never
Going
To
Be
Able
To
Convince
My
Father
Or
Somebody
To
Do
That
Until
They
Make
Everything
Nice
And
Shiny
And
Clickable
And
I
Do
Think
It's
Possible
I
Think
It's
Doable
It's
Just
That
No
One's
Done
It
Yet
But
That's
Just
Me
Have
Anything
To
Add
To
That
Mr.
Natus
No
Did
You
Know
That
Natus
Is
Satan
Spilled
Backwards
I
Didn't
Know
That
Move
Into
The
Main
Show
Topic
For
This
Week
Which
Is
How
To
Make
Money
On
The
Global
Interweb
Your
Specialty
Right
I'd like
To
Think
So
Somewhat
Related
To
Our
Not
Really
Related
But
Timely
I
Guess
I
Should
Say
With
Our
Server
Woes
And
Talking
About
How
We
Might
Have
To
Do
Some
Advertising
Banner
Ads
Or
Something
Along
Those
Lines
See
What
We
Come
Up
With
So
Backstory
Because
Some
Credibility
To
Both
Of
Us
That
We
Done
A
Lot
Of
Homework
And
A
Lot
Of
Research
On
This
I'm
Not
Going
To
Go
And
Rehash
Some
Of
The
Stuff
I've
Done
In
The
Past
Like
I
Presented
On
Google
Ad
Words
At
Def
Con
And
We
Did
That
On
An
Episode
Or
Two
At
On
The
Radio
Show
A
Couple
Seasons
Ago
So
We're
Not
Going
To
Go
Back
And
Focus
On
That
Specifically
Or
Any
Of
The
Nuances
Of
The
Individual
Services
We're
Going
To
Talk
In
Some
Detail
About
How
They
Work
And
Why
They
Work
The
Way
They
Do
But
Not
So
Much
From
A
Exploiting
Side
Of
Things
More
Of
A
Competitive
Side
Of
Things
And
How
To
How
They
Would
Work
If
You
Actually
Wanted
To
Make
Money
Off
Of
So
Internet
Advertising
In
General
Which
Is
For
The
Most
Part
Focusing
On
Banner
Ads
Now
There
Is
Some
Basic
Terminology
We
Should
Probably
Lay
Down
Up
Front
If
We
Miss
Anything
We'll
Define
It
As
We
Go
Along
We'll
Try
To
Be
Careful
About
That
But
There
Are
A
Few
Basic
Terms
And
As
Fill
In
Any
If
I
Miss
Any
Here
That
You
Think
Should
Be
Added
But
A
Time
You
Click
On
An
Ad
Or
I
Guess
Rather
From
The
Other
Side
Of
Every
Time
Somebody
Clicks
On
One
Of
Your
Ads
You
Are
Either
Going
To
Receive
Money
From
It
If
You
Are
On
The
Site
Feeding
Out
Ads
Or
You're
Going
To
Get
Charged
Money
For
It
If
You're
The
One
Doing
The
Advertising
Did
That
Make
Sense
At
All
Did
That
Come
Out
Right
Yeah
Okay
So
Pay
Per
Click
System
Means
That
You
Only
Get
Charged
And
You
Only
Have
To
Pay
If
Somebody
Does
Click
On
Your
Ad
And
Now
If
You're
On
The
Content
Site
Serving
Up
The
Ad
You'll
Make
A
Percentage
Of
That
Sale
So
If
It
Costs
I
Don't
Know
Ten
Cents
You're
Willing
To
Pay
Ten
Cents
For
Every
Click
Or
The
Advertisers
Pay
Ten
Cents
For
Their
Ad
To
Go
Up
And
Get
Clicked
On
And
You
Run
That
Website
The
Way
These
Companies
And
I'm
Going
To
Be
Vague
With
That
The
Way
These
Companies
Make
Money
Is
That
Out
Of
That
Ten
Cents
That
The
Advertiser
Is
Ponying
Up
They're
Going
To
Keep
A
Cut
Of
It
And
They're
Going
To
Give
You
A
Cut
Of
It
Well
Because
They
Control
The
Media
At
This
Point
There's
Not
A
Whole
Lot
Of
Competition
At
This
Point
Google
They
Keep
The
Majority
Of
The
Money
They'll
Give
You
Maybe
A
Penny
Out
Of
That
Ten
Cents
They'll
Keep
The
Other
Nine
Cents
So
I'm
Not
I'm
Going
To
Try
Anyway
To
Stay
Off
The
Google
Soap
Box
Here
But
That's
Why
Google
Stock
Is
400
And
Something
Dollars
A
Share
Because
They
Have
A
Corner
On
That
Market
At
Least
As
Of
Last
Week
This
Week
Things
May
Have
Changed
But
Back
To
Terminology
There's
Also
Now
And
Correct
Me
If
I'm
Wrong
On
This
Because
It
Always
Confused
Me
At
First
It's
CPM
Which
Is
Not
Cost
Per
Million
Actually
It's
Cost
Per
Thousand
Right
Cost
Per
Thousand
Impressions
And
That
Yeah
That
Means
Even
If
Nobody
Clicks
On
Your
Ad
Every
Time
Served
Up
To
Somebody
You
Get
Charged
For
Every
Thousand
Impressions
Is
Another
Term
Every
Impressions
Every
Time
It
Gets
Served
Up
To
Somebody
Every
Time
It
Hits
A
Thousand
You'll
Pay
Whatever
You've
Agreed
To
Pay
To
Get
That
Advertising
So
If
I
Wanted
To
Advertise
Bin
Rev.com
And
I'm
Willing
To
Pay
One
Dollar
For
Every
Thousand
Then
Every
Time
That
Thing
If
It
Two
Things
Mutually
Exclusive
Do
You
Pay
One
Or
The
Other
Or
Will
You
Pay
So
Much
Per
Thousand
And
Then
If
Somebody
Clicks
On
Any
Of
Them
You
Have
To
Pay
The
Ten
Cents
In
Addition
Or
Is
It
Usually
One
Or
The
Other
No
It's
Just
CPM
So
You
Don't
Pay
Per
Click
Either
It's
Just
If
You're
Going
With
A
CPM
Model
And
It's
Just
You
Pay
Per
Thousand
Impressions
You
Don't
Have
To
Pay
Four
Thousand
Impressions
You
Could
Pay
I
Mean
You
Don't
Have
To
Do
A
Thousand
Impressions
You
Could
Do
Maybe
Like
Five
Hundred
Or
Hundred
It
Would
Divide
It
Out
By
Whatever
You're
Willing
To
Pay
By
For
A
Thousand
You
Know
Gotcha
Yeah
It'll
Pro
Rate
It
So
If
You
Have
A
Cost
Per
Thousand
Method
Or
Just
An
Impressions
Scale
And
You
Served
It
To
A
Thousand
People
And
All
One
Thousand
Of
Them
Clicked
On
It
You're
Still
Only
Paying
That
Same
One
Dollar
Or
Whatever
You
Agreed
Upon
Right
You're
Getting
A lot
More
For
Your
Money
Yeah
And
It's
An
Old
Advertising
Adage
Too
That
And
This
Is
Kind
Of
Breaking
Off
Of
Specifically
Banner
Ads
But
Advertising
In
General
I
Know
Subliminal
Advertising
Or
Viral
Marketing
You might
Hear
Kind
Of
Nowadays
Just
Getting
The
Eyeballs
On
It
Getting
Those
Impressions
Is
Actually
A
Very
Powerful
And
Useful
Advertising
Technique
In
General
So
Even
If
You
Don't
Generate
Any
Click
Through
You're
Getting
A
Lot
Of
Publicity
You're
Getting
A
Lot
Of
Eyeballs
Seeing
That
Site
Of
Yours
Even
If
They
Don't
Necessarily
Click
On
It
You're
Planting
The
Seed
In
Their
Head
And
I
Know
As a
Matter of
fact
You know
what
Decoder
Even
Told
Me
This
One
Time
He
Was
Looking
For
An
Ad
Somewhere
That
He
Had
Seen
Before
It
Stuck
In
His
Head
It
Was
Not
Something
He
Was
Interested
In
And
Then
He
Calls
And
He
Is
Like
Do
You
Remember
That
One
Place
That
One
site
That
One
Ad
We
Saw
Because
I
Didn't
Need
That
Back
Then
But
Here
I
Am
Two
Months
Later
And
I
Need
That
Service
Or
What
I
Don't
Remember
What
It
Was
Unfortunately
The
Exact
Ad
He
Was
Looking
For
But
Here
It
Was
A
Couple
Months
Later
The
Ad
Wasn't
Even
Running
Anymore
But
He
Remembered
It
It's
Planted
And
Subliminally
Gets
Stuck
In
Your
Head
So
Sometimes
You
Want
To
Just
Push
I
Prefer
That
Method
Myself
Mostly
Because
I
Find
It
Cheaper
And
You
Know
You
Get
Those
Eyeballs
You
Get
Those
Impressions
And
Stuff
Another
Let's
See
Another
Term
To
Talk
About
An
Important
Term
Is
Your
Click
Through
Ratio
Which
Is
Out
Of
Those
Thousand
Ads
Or
However
Many
Ads
You
Got
You
Divide
How
Many
People
Actually
Clicked
On
It
And
That
Is
Closely
Related
To
And
There's
Different
Terms
For
This
But
We're
Going
To
Just
I
Guess
Quality
Score
Quality
Rating
Is
That
Good
Enough
Mattis
You
Think
Some
Sort
Of
Quality
That
Like
Your
Ad
Gets
Clicked
On
0.05
Percent
Of
The
Time
At
Every
That
Click
Through
Ratio
And
Quality
Score
Is
Kind
Of
Another
Completely
Separate
Thing
Quality
Score
Is
Like
Yeah
Explain
Quality
Engines
Basically
It's
Just
The
Quality
Of
Your
Text
Your
Ad
The
Relevancy
Of
The
Page
That
You're
Sending
To
And
Everything
In
Regards
To
The
Ad
That
You're
Serving
So
How
Good
Of
An
Ad
Your
Ad
Is
Basically
So
It's
Kind
Of
If
I
If
I
Understood
It
Correctly
The
Way
I've
Always
Thought
About
It
Anyway
And
I
Admit
That's
Why
I'm
Going
To
Ad
Is
For
This
Because
I'm
Not
Positive
It
I
Always
Understood
To
Be
The
Click
Through
Ratio
As
It
Performs
To
Certain
Keywords
That
Are
Searched
On
So
If
Somebody
Does
A
Search
For
Hacking
For
Example
And
They
Find
Ads
To
Bin
Rev
Maybe
I
Get
Better
Performance
Better
Click
Through
Ratio
As
Opposed
To
When
People
Search
For
Security
And
Bin
Rev
Ad
Comes
Up
They
Might
Not
Click
On
It
As
Much
They
Might
Not
Be
As
Interested
In
It
So
It
Would
Have
A
Lower
Click
Through
Ratio
Therefore
A
Lower
Quality
Score
In
Terms
Of
That
Keyword
Is
That
Not
Correct
At
All
Am
I
Way
Off
There
No
That's
Correct
You're
Right
Okay
It
Has
A
Lot
To
Do
With
Your
Ads
And
Everything
What
Keywords
You're
Putting
In
Your
Ads
And
What
Keywords
Would
Be
On
Bin
Rev.com
If
You
Were
Serving
Services
Are
Working
It's
Very
Important
Those
Quality
Scores
And
How
They
Determine
Which
Ads
To
Serve
Up
Based
On
Which
Keywords
I
Guess
This
Would
Be
A
Good
Time
To
Go
Ahead
And
Kind
Of
Go
Into
Google
Which
Both
You
And
I
As
I
Laugh
Into
The
Microphone
Which
Both
You
And
I
Have
Been
Bans
From
Not
Only
Funny
I'm
Not
Finding
It
Funny
Anymore
Not
Only
Banned
I'm
Completely
Blackballed
I'm
Completely
Blacklisted
I'm
Surprised
They
Didn't
Cancel
My
Actual
Google
Account
At
This
Point
Because
I've
Tried
Six
Ways
Till
Sunday
To
Create
A
New
Account
With
Different
Methods
And
Identifications
And
They
Always
Seem
To
Figure
Them
Out
I
Mean
I
Still
Have
A
Couple
Things
What's
That
If
You've
Tried
Six
Ways
To
Sunday
I've
Tried
60
Really
I
Think
There's
A
Couple
Other
Things
I
Could
Probably
Try
That
Seem
Like
They
Would
Work
But
I
Don't
Want
It
That
Bad
Fuck
Google
I've
Tried
About
Five
Times
In
The
Past
Month
The
Eight
Account
Man
I
Want
One
That
Bad
They
Do
Not
Like
We'll
See
We're
Going to
Talk
About
This
Later
I
Don't
Want
To
Endorse
Anyone
Specifically
But
We'll
Be
Honest
About
Our
That
Later
First
Of
All
We
Have
Google
Now
There
Are
Two
Parts
To
The
Google
Advertising
System
For
Lack
Of
A
Better
Word
I
Guess
There's
AdWords
Then
There's
AdSense
Now
Natas
Explain
The
Two
Sides
Of
The
I
Kind
Of
Alluded
To
It
Earlier
But
Kind
Of
Clarify
The
Two
Sides
Of
The
System
Okay
AdSense
Is
When
You
Put
Ads
On
Your
Ads
For
Your
Site
That
You
Run
On
In
Google
Search
Results
On
The
Right
Hand
Side
Or
At
The
Top
And
Also
On
Sites
That
Serve
AdSense
Ads
Your
Ads
Would
Appear
To
People
And
People
Would
Be
Visiting
Your
Website
If
You
Were
In
The
AdWords
Campaign
And
With
Google
AdWords
It
Is
Set
Up
To
Use
Either
Of
Those
Two
Methods
That
We
Described
Earlier
They
Added
The
Cost
Per
Thousand
Later
On
Into
The
Program
It
Was
Not
There
In
The
Beginning
It
Was
Just
Pay
Per
Click
But
There
Is
Kind
Of
Controversy
With
Pay
Per
Click
About
What
Validates
A
Legitimate
Click
Through
And
You
Know
Click
Fraud
Comes
Into
Play
Right
And
You
Can
Also
You
Can
Also
You
Can
Specify
That
You
Only
Want
To
Be
In
Search
Results
Or
You
Only
Want
To
Be
On
The
Content
Network
Yeah
They
Did
Add
Some
Flexibility
With
That
And
It's
Also
Important
To
Say
That
You
Can
Be
On
Both
Sides
Of
That
You
Can
Have
AdWords
And
AdSense
There
Certainly
Nothing
Wrong
With
That
Right
Like
Talking
About
Us
When
We
Say
We
Been
Banned
We
Mean
AdSense
Accounts
Have
Been
One
That
I
Use
For
Advertising
A
Lot
Of
My
Sites
Across
The
Internet
I
Actually
Do
Have
An
AdWords
Account
They
Will
Gladly
Take
Your
Money
They
Just
Won't
Let
You
Make
Any
More
Money
Yeah
Right
Yeah
Of
They
Were
Like
Watching
My
Stuff
On
A
Daily
Basis
And
If
I
Tried
To
Pull
Anything
Because
What
I
Did
Is
And
I
Don't
Again
You
Go
And
Listen
To
The
Old
Episodes
But
I
Even
Put
Up
A
Special
Message
For
Defcon
Attendees
A
Special
Keyword
They
Could
Search
On
That
Weekend
Only
That
They
Could
Go
Through
And
Find
The
Ad
And
Of
That
Was
Down
By
Taking
My
Money
Google
Do
No
Evil
My
Ass
Darn
It
I
I'm
Supposed
To
Stay
Off
The
Soapbox
Anyway
You
Can
Try
To
Create
More
Ad
Sense
Accounts
Which
Is
Kind
Of
What
We
Alluding
To
Earlier
But
They
Have
Me
Blackballed
They
Don't
Want
Me
To
Make
Any
Money
But
What
I
Didn't
Like
About
It
I
Don't
Know
If
This
You
Don't
Have
To
Answer
This
I
Don't
Know
How
Much
You
Want
To
Drop
Here
But
What
Made
Me
Mad
About
It
Was
I
Had
Them
Things
Up
And
Running
Well
They
Waited
And
My
Thing
Is
I
Was
Only
Doing
It
For
The
Research
And
To
See
How
It
Worked
I
Wasn't
Plastering
Them
All
Over
Bin
Rev
I've
Been
Trying
To
Avoid
That
All
These
Years
I
Don't
Know
How
Much
Long
It's
Going
Waited
For
Three
Or
Four
Months
Until
I
Actually
Finally
Made
Enough
Money
Which
I
Want
To
Say
At
The
Time
Was
Fairly
Low
$20
Or
$30
When
They
You
Have
To
Make
That
Much
Within
That
Not
Within
That
By
To
Get
The
Quarterly
Payout
You
Had
To
Have
At
Least
$20
Or
$30
Worth
Of
Value
And
This
Was
A
Couple
Years
Ago
And
I
Think
It's
$100
Is
That
What
Oh
Man
See
I
Know
It
Was
Lower
Back
Then
Maybe
I
Wrong
But
I
Know
That's
What
Yahoo
Is
I
Know
That's
What
Pretty
Much
The
Standard
Yeah
It
Is
Now
Yeah
It
Definitely
Is
Now
Back
Then
It
Was
About
$20
or
$30
And
It
Was
Payoff
Time
And
Well
I
Think
Okay
Don't
Hold
Me
I
Won't
Say
I
Know
It
Was
I
Think
It
Was
Only
$20
$30
Maybe
It
Was
$50
It
Was
Something
Lower
It
Seems
Like
Because
We
Didn't
Make
$100
I
Don't
Ever
Think
It
Got
Close
To
That
But
Right
When
It
Came
Payoff
Time
Or
Quarterly
Renewal
Or
Whatever
They
Want
To
Call
It
That's
When
They
Decided
To
Ban
Me
It's
Like
Listen
You
Had
To
Have
Known
A
Long
Time
A
That
You
Didn't
To
Ever
Pay
Me
But
Why
Not
Use
Me
For
A
Couple
More
Months
To
Serve
Up
Ads
For
Them
And
I
Don't
Necessarily
Say
That
Lightly
Or
Out
Of
Spite
Per
Se
Because
A
Lot
Of
People
On
The
Global
Interweb
Had
The
Same
Thing
Happened
To
Them
In
The
Exact
Same
Way
So
I
Don't
Know
If
You
Fall
Into
That
Boat
Or
If
You
Want
To
Ad
It
Or
Anything
But
That
Is
The
Way
It
Went
Down
With
Me
And
I
Didn't
Particularly
Care
For
That
Very
Much
Yeah
That
Is
Not
The
Way
It
Went
Down
For
Me
I
Was
Making
Enough
To
Get
Paid
Every
Month
There
Was
Definitely
Some
Click
Fraud
Going
On
My
Site
Well
There
Was
Well
And
That
The
Other
Thing
To
Be
Honest
I
Really
Wasn't
Doing
Any
Kind
Of
Weird
Click
Fraud
Stuff
With
It
I
Swear
To
God
I
Honestly
Was
Not
But
That
Is
What
They
Accused
Me
Of
And
Once
Again
Several
People
Across
The
Interweb
Were
Having
That
Same
Problem
Their
Accounts
Just
Canceled
For
No
Reason
And
There's
No
Debating
Arguing
You
Cannot
Contact
Them
And
Say
Hey
Show
Me
Some
Evidence
What
Do
You
Mean
Click
Fraud
I
Have
No
Idea
I
At
The
Time
I
What
The
Hell
How
Do
You
Do
This
How
Do
You
Take
Advantage
And
Run
This
Into
The
Ground
And
Anyway
I
Digress
We
Will
Back
Off
Of
That
For
A
Little
Bit
And
Say
Simply
That
They
Have
Dominated
The
Market
I
Think
That's
A safe
Thing
To
Say
For
The
Last
I
Don't
Know
Two
Years
Longer
Three
Yeah
Longer
Yeah
I
Would
I'd say three.
And they were pretty much the only dog in the fight.
They were the only ones out there on any kind of large scale,
and that's when Google became multi-bajillionaires,
is when they went public and all those profits were coming in.
They made mad money off of that stuff.
The stock to this day is still ridiculous.
Yeah.
There were definitely other players out there,
but like you said, it wasn't on a large scale like Google.
No, a lot of success on the Internet is simply based on timing.
Isn't that right, Mr. Calacanis?
You had to be at the right place at the right time,
and I think that's never truer than it is today on the global interweb.
So that being said, is there anything else we need to say about Google
before we move on to some of the others?
Well, I know you just mentioned what happens when you get your account banned,
and apparently they claim that they have a better appeals process now
where they're more willing to listen to you and sort through your information
to really see what's going on.
This is what I've heard.
Yeah, I was going to say that does a lot of good for those of us
who will not ever get an account again.
Right.
So I've been falsely accused, falsely labeled, and I can't go back and fix it.
I don't know how true it is about that.
Well, and actually, as far as timing goes, that's when a second timing issue,
and this is probably a good segue into the next section,
is right about that time for me was when Yahoo was starting its beta
for its advertising program.
Now, a little history here.
The Yahoo advertising program actually used to be called Overture.
Overture was a separate site, an independent site of its own,
that was offering advertising on other search engines.
Not only Yahoo, but also MSN at the time, and CNET,
and several other large portals, large sites, large search engines.
They were all going through Overture.
So Overture was a pretty big site at the time,
and the only somewhat competitor to Google.
Now, like we said earlier, Google was the big dog.
You know, you couldn't really even get in the same league with them,
but they were close.
They weren't even close.
They were in the game, I should say.
And it was a similar type system where you would bid,
I had an Overture account,
and maybe that's why I was able to get into the beta early,
was because I had an Overture account at the time,
which I actually canceled because Overture was charging more
than Google was at the time.
And Google undercut them for what it costs to actually put ads out there.
What are you talking about, the minimum of 10 cents per click?
That's right, that's right.
And now Google has since upped all their stuff now,
and they've got a lot of minimum clicks.
And I think we might come back to that a little bit later on as well
when we talk about quality.
We should come back to that because there's a lot that you can talk about.
Yeah, exactly.
So let's see.
Boy, man, we're already running a little on time.
I can't believe there's so much to talk about,
so I guess I'm going to have to talk faster.
Damn.
Yeah, I think we took too long with the email.
Yeah, probably.
Oh, well.
Goddamn Vista.
I know.
We go on the Vista rant.
I could rant all day about it.
I know.
We've got to do a better full-length interview.
But anyway, stop.
No more Vista.
Okay.
Get back on track.
So anyway, Yahoo used to be Overture.
Well, what happened is Yahoo did exactly what Microsoft,
somebody was talking about earlier in their email,
they bought up Overture.
So Overture became Yahoo's advertising.
But Overture was not the same,
did not have the same functionality and control mechanisms
that Google did for the advertiser.
And I think maybe this would be a good spot for you to talk about,
like an example of one of the frustrating things
and the lack of control that you have
as far as like international ads we were talking about,
like on the phone earlier today.
Yeah, some of the downfalls of Overture system compared to AdWords,
it's definitely not as advanced.
Like you can't do geo-targeting.
So say that you want to serve up ads to only people in the United States
or Canada, you can't do that with Overture.
International people are going to see your ads.
They are going to click them, and it's going to cost you money,
even though, say, you can't monetize their traffic.
Like, you're still going to have to pay for it,
and that's something that is really pissing me off.
Yeah, and you know, you really do have to think of this
from a business standpoint.
If you're spending money on these ads,
you want to obviously maximize your return on investment.
You don't want to pay for people to click on your ads
that can't even order from you because they're in another country
or whatever other reason,
or you only want to focus on one particular area or region
or whatever the case may be.
Now, to be fair, Google didn't have that in the very, very beginning either.
Right, but they've had it for a while now.
But yeah, they were definitely on top of it
and led the pack as far as adding those sort of features and stuff on there.
So Overture got bought out by Yahoo,
became Yahoo Publisher Network, I think.
Is that what it's called?
Or just Publisher?
No, Overture got bought out by Yahoo,
and it became Yahoo Search Marketing.
Yahoo Search Marketing.
There you go.
So that was probably two years ago, truthfully,
because the problem is,
and a lot of people have been frustrated with Yahoo as stockholders
and as a company because they bought it,
and they've taken so, so, so long
to integrate that into Yahoo properly
that a lot of the shareholders were angry
because they were expecting all this big money
and they're watching Google blow up to $400 or $500 a share
and they're waiting for Yahoo to roll this out.
And Yahoo had it in beta for the longest time
as they worked on it, worked on it.
Basically, long story short,
they've gotten to the point now where
as of Monday, yesterday as you're listening to this,
they supposedly went public officially.
They're no longer just in beta.
Now, I'm not positive about that
because I don't have the advertising side of Yahoo.
Right.
Well, what it is actually...
Okay, explain.
...is I researched it after we talked about it earlier,
after you called me and told me about it.
Mm-hmm.
And what it is is they switched over
to a new ranking model today,
which is like the core feature
of their new upgraded system,
which is called Panama.
It's code named Panama.
Panama, right, right.
Right, and so accounts aren't actually upgraded
because I'm looking at my Yahoo account right now,
my Overture account,
and I'm still on the old system.
I've been waiting to get upgraded to the new one.
Ah.
Not going to happen until the 14th,
is what they told me.
Really?
See, I don't have that side of the house
with the Overture,
so I didn't realize that was going on.
Right.
So what this really means
is that they switched to a new,
basically a new algorithm
for ranking ads
and ad placement on search engine results.
So it's not purely based on
who has the highest bid
for that search phrase
or the keywords in that phrase.
Which is what it was in the past.
Right, which is what it's been in the past.
So if I reserve the word
Hacker Magazine
and I am willing to pay 50 cents
for every click-through
and say 2,600 registers the same thing,
they only pay 25%,
my ad is going to appear above theirs.
Right, yours is going to be number one.
In the old system,
but in the new system.
Right, in the new system,
they rank based on quality score,
which we talked about earlier,
and it takes into account a lot of things.
It takes into account, like,
your click-through rate,
like how many people are clicking your ads,
and also it does take into account
the price,
but it also takes into account
like the quality of the page
that you're sending it to.
Like if you're bidding on,
if you're bidding on keyword hacking
and the page you're sending it to
didn't have hacking
or hack or anything like that
on the page,
then they would think it's not relevant.
So they would make you pay more.
And Google's been doing
the same thing for a while.
Right, and just to prove for that,
there's going to be some variations
because they have to rotate ads
in and out.
Yeah.
Because you can actually cap
how many times your ad gets served up
to prevent you from losing money
from a bunch of click-throughs,
fraud or otherwise.
You can set a cap and say,
if I spend more than $20 today
or $20,000 for big companies,
stop showing my ads.
They want to limit it.
So they're going to rotate other ads
in and out when that happens.
But for example,
go to Google,
search for something,
and the ads that are on
the right-hand side or whatever.
Reload three or four times.
Do a search multiple times.
You'll watch them shift
and move and change.
Right.
Every time you do that,
you're costing someone
one impression
out of that cost per thousand.
Well, that's not actually,
Google doesn't actually,
you can't do CPM ads
on search results.
What it is is CPM ads
are for if you site target a site.
Say you wanted to put ads
on dig.com.
Right, content ads.
Right, it's not for the search engine.
Is there a term
that they call that though?
Yeah, I guess,
bad example,
cost per million.
But they do rotate in and out
the same way.
The algorithm that does it
is, I would almost assume,
is definitely the same.
But yeah,
the cost per million is...
Yeah, they do rotate them
because they're trying
to get the highest
click-through rate
so they're getting paid more.
Right.
And you'll get
a finely tuned eye
after a while.
Of which ones pay more.
Isn't that right?
Yeah.
I'm pretty good at that,
aren't I?
Yeah, we'll back off of that.
But yeah,
the new algorithm,
I don't know
if it's going to be good
or if it's going to be bad.
That's the whole thing.
A lot of people
are complaining
because a lot of people
don't want it to be
like Google.
Hmm.
But a lot of people
want it to be like Google.
Some people will benefit
and some won't benefit.
Basically,
the more relevant
your content is,
your ads
and your keywords
and your ads,
then the better off
you're going to do.
Right.
If you're trying to buy cheap,
if you're trying to get
cheap traffic,
it might not happen
as easily anymore.
Right.
Well,
if you want cheap traffic,
you'll probably go
for the cost per thousand
method anyway
and hope you get
click-throughs,
I would imagine.
Sometimes.
I guess it all depends,
I guess.
EPM advertising
really isn't that big
with Google
and it's not even,
Yahoo doesn't even
offer it.
Yeah,
yet,
again.
Right,
yet.
Growing as they,
you know,
they're trying to copy Google.
I mean,
they realize that it works.
I mean,
there's no debating that.
The process,
the system works,
excuse me,
but the process
is kind of
messed up.
Yeah.
You know?
Well,
and so this.
From what I read,
as of 3 p.m.
Pacific Standard Time
on Monday,
Yahoo has switched over
to the new results.
And it'll be interesting
to see how that works.
Algorithm ranking method.
But back me up
on this,
Natis,
being that you and I
have both used
both systems
from the advertiser,
or excuse me,
from the content provider
standpoint,
serving up ads
on some of our sites.
For me,
Yahoo buried Google
and kicked dirt on it
as far as me
getting better payouts.
I don't know if it is.
They definitely have
better payouts now.
And a lot of people
are complaining
that Google is paying
even less now.
Yeah.
This year.
Really?
Wow.
See,
Google's only paying
like,
you know,
a fraction of a percent,
I think maybe,
or 1% out of the amount.
I don't think,
I don't think it's that bad,
but people are only getting...
It depends on the value
of the ad.
If it's a 10 cents ad,
you're only going to get
a penny if,
you know,
so that's going to be lower.
But all I'm saying
is I definitely find
better results from Yahoo.
Right.
I definitely get like
between 50 and a dollar
or 50 per click
from some ads on Yahoo.
Some ads,
yeah.
That definitely wouldn't
happen as much on,
with the same keywords
on,
with AdSense.
Right.
And it will definitely
be interesting to see
how much that changes,
if at all,
with this new system.
Yep.
So we'll keep everyone
posted, I guess,
on that.
I'll keep analyzing that,
because that's kind
of interesting.
Are there any others
besides Google and Yahoo,
though?
I know Yahoo's launching it,
rolling that stuff out.
Day by day,
they're still working,
and hopefully they'll
catch up full boat
and be competitive
with Google at some point.
Microsoft,
they're doing something
as well.
Is any of that public yet?
Yeah,
Microsoft has a public system.
It's called
Microsoft Ad Center,
and that's part of
msn and live.com.
So if you do searches
on those engines,
then you'll see
Microsoft Ad Center ads.
And Yahoo used to be
on there,
like you said.
Overture used to be
on there.
Overture, right.
Then Microsoft broke off
and they decided
to do their own thing.
Well, that's Microsoft.
Right,
and as of now,
Ad Center is definitely
behind Yahoo and Google,
but it's pretty much
the third largest,
third largest.
It's going to be
because of the nature
of it.
Right,
and the big thing,
too,
is now that people
are upgrading
to IE7,
that MSN,
you know,
the default homepage,
so people are still
going to be using
How convenient.
MSN and everything
to do their,
well,
noobs will be anyways.
They'll be opening
their browser
right at their homepage,
you know,
searching there.
How convenient.
That's where Microsoft
gets a lot
of their traffic.
Absolutely.
It's very,
very convenient.
Yeah,
that's why MSN
is like the third
most popular site
on the net.
Actually,
it's the second,
I think.
Who is?
MSN.
Oh,
I thought you said
Amazon for a second there.
No,
MSN because,
you know,
the default page.
Do you know,
actually,
MySpace jumped up
to number one
at least once
on the Alexa rankings
at some point?
Really?
It's not consistently,
but I think it jumped up
for one day above
Yahoo,
above Google,
above MSN.
Yeah,
I'm actually going
there right now
to see,
because I think
I might be.
All right,
Yahoo is number one,
MSN number two,
Google number three,
MySpace is six.
Six,
okay.
Yeah,
it's definitely
up there in the top,
but it jumped up.
So,
AdCenter is a player
in the world,
the search engine
marketing world,
but they don't have
the volume.
Don't hate to play you.
Google.
Don't hate to play you,
hate the game.
Now,
the other,
but now see,
I do not have
the Microsoft.
I have not signed up
for any of that.
I don't know
if you have.
Yeah,
no,
I use it.
One thing that I did
find interesting
about it,
though,
and maybe you can
confirm this then,
is reading about
how it worked.
One of the interesting
things that I found
was that through
their AdCenter,
they're not only
doing your typical
text-based ads
like the others
are doing.
I could swear
that they had
options on there
to do advertising
on MSN radio,
streaming radio
during the day,
other types of
media,
video.
You can have
video clips play
in front of some
of the MSN video
stuff.
I'm sure that's
not something
that's cheap
and a few cents
or a few dollars
like the other
ads.
I'm sure it's
more expensive,
but I thought
it was neat
that they even
offer that.
I've never seen
that in my account,
actually.
Yeah,
it's somewhere
on the documentation
I was reading
about it.
Maybe it's
because it's
such a high
roller type thing,
I guess maybe
you have to
contact them
directly.
Yeah.
I just thought
it was a really
interesting thing.
Google offers
that for all
accounts now.
I mean,
you can publish
video ads,
you can publish
ads.
Really?
And do they
go,
because they
bought YouTube,
is that where
they put them,
in front of YouTube?
No,
they put them,
I don't know
if you've seen
like the square
AdSense boxes,
but sometimes
instead of those,
it's like a
certain size box
and instead of
those being text
ads,
there'll be a
video ad.
How much do
they generally
cost?
Is it a bidding
system,
minimum?
It works the
same way as
the text ads
do.
Wow,
that's interesting.
I think,
I'm pretty sure
you have to pay
a little bit higher
because people are
watching like
a 15 second clip
instead of
reading a text ad.
Yeah,
you're annoying
the hell out of
them.
They don't
automatically play,
do they?
No.
Okay,
good.
I'm pretty sure
you have to watch
like half of the
video or the
whole video
to get paid
for it.
Maybe not.
Maybe I'm wrong.
But Google's been
offering that for
a while and
they are,
actually they
talked about
just like a
week ago
on the radio
show about how
they're going to
be advertising.
Oh wait,
no.
I'm sorry,
I'm like off
track.
Well,
that's all right.
Are there any
others besides
the big three,
Google,
Yahoo,
and MSN?
Are there any
other players,
like Overture used
to be an
independent player?
Well,
there's Adbrite.
Okay,
I've heard of
that one.
I think I looked
into that one
at one point
and did not
pursue it very
much.
They're just a
third-party
independent
advertising?
Yep,
they're a third-tier
search engine.
It works a lot
like AdWords
and you can do
a lot of cost
per CPM stuff
by targeting.
You can buy
like a text
link on
a specific
site for X
amount of
dollars for
a day,
three days,
a week,
a month.
One of the
biggest sites
that used
to have it
that I remember
was eBombsworld.
eBombsworld
was running
Adbrite ads
for a long
time.
Yeah,
and that's
a whole
other controversy.
It was really
expensive to
purchase a text
ad on there.
It was like
$250 a day.
Yeah,
eBombsworld
is a whole
other controversy
we won't go
into.
Yeah,
but there's
a lot of
search engines.
There's a lot
of third-tier
search engines.
They don't do
publishing.
You won't get
paid for having
their ads on
your site,
but you can
advertise your
stuff through
their search
engine.
Right,
you can be
an advertiser
for them.
Right,
you can be
an advertiser.
Now,
isn't there,
okay,
so on the
opposite side
of that,
there are a
few others
out there.
Adbrite,
any others
worth mentioning
briefly that
come to mind?
Adbrite actually
has both
sides too.
Oh,
it does,
okay.
What about
those ones
that basically
they don't
really,
you don't have
to put the
ads on your
site per se,
but you put
a tag in
your code,
and it
parses through
it,
and double
underlines
stuff,
and when you
hover above
it.
Those are
called
Intellitext.
Intellitext ads,
yeah,
there's some
Intellitext places
doing stuff now.
Have you ever
tried any of
that?
To get an
account with
Intellitext,
I read that
you have to
do a minimum
of,
like,
I can't
remember if
it's page
views or
hits or
unique visitors,
but you have
to do a
minimum of
like 500,000,
so I don't
qualify.
I haven't
played that
too that much.
Yet.
You have to
be a big
time publisher
to do stuff
with them.
Hmm.
And some,
I don't know,
actually,
you know what,
I'm going to
throw this out
to the listeners
because I'm
curious,
do you,
I'm sure
most of our
listeners have
been out
there surfing
the interweb
and know
what I'm
talking about,
those Intellitext
ads,
do you find
those to be,
yeah,
do you find
those to be
more or less
annoying than
other ads?
I mean,
I find them
to be more
annoying.
Yeah,
like if I'm
hovering over
the text,
which I do
sometimes,
or trying to
select it,
or especially
one time this
happened where
the URL in
the site was
actually a keyword
that triggered
an Intellitext,
so I could not
click on the
URL to launch
the site because
the damn
Intellitext was
in the way.
Oh,
that would be
so annoying.
Yeah,
I think that was
an early bug that
they may have
fixed by now,
but I hope
anyway.
But I'm curious
just as to what
generally our
listeners out there
feel about that,
more or less
annoying,
because BinRev
gets that many
hits easily.
I'm just saying.
I've got to
think about
these things.
So,
all right,
so fine,
from the
advertising side
of things,
that's all
well and good,
but from the
other side,
about getting
paid,
son,
making that
money,
another thing
that you can
do is also
put some
affiliate links
and affiliate ads
on your site,
and these are
usually specifically
site and target
based.
Instead of going
for the big
advertising companies
that we've been
talking about
earlier,
you can go
directly,
for example,
to Amazon.com
as one of the
largest.
And they have
a good system
of support
to allow you
to click
through,
like,
for example,
I don't know
if we ever
went through
with it.
We were going
to put it
on the
Hacker Movies
page that we
had so that
you could click
on it,
because to me,
I think it would
be a neat
service to offer
that if you see
a movie that
interests you,
you give a
click through
that you can
buy it over
on Amazon,
and we could
put in an
affiliate tag.
I don't think
we ever went
and did it,
but we could
put an affiliate
tag on there
so that if
somebody buys it,
we get a
percentage of
kickback for
any sales
that come
through us.
Right,
and what
that's called,
that's called
CPA advertising,
cost per action.
Oh,
I never heard
that term
before,
cost per action.
So you're
not getting
paid per
click on the
ad,
you're not
paying or
getting paid
per thousand
impressions,
you're getting
paid per
action.
Per sale,
basically.
Action is
defined as a
sale or a
lead,
so if somebody
buys a product
or if somebody
signs up for
a service,
you get paid.
It can be
kind of vague.
What's that?
I said defining
a lead may be
kind of vague,
but yeah.
A lead would
be like leading
someone to a
new service,
like leading
someone to
sign up with
binrev.com or
something.
Signing up with
Netflix.
Right,
if your company,
yeah,
if it's something
you can
electronically measure,
but what if
a lead is,
they have to
call an 800
number to
register for
an account or
something,
they have no
way of tracking
that electronically,
so that's not,
they probably
wouldn't treat
that the same.
That wouldn't
fall under
an action.
It's hard to
even make a
program that
because nobody
would want,
like as an
advertiser,
you wouldn't
want.
Right,
it's basically
a cost per
measurable action,
and that's not
something that's
measurable.
Yeah,
right.
okay.
Well,
before we cut
out here,
we've still
got a few
minutes,
ten minutes
left.
Let's talk
about,
all that
being said,
we've talked
about how to
put ads on
your site.
Let's talk
about how you
get those ads
seen.
How do you
make that
money,
son?
How do you
get your
site to get
visits to your
site,
which again
could go on
to a whole
other show,
but briefly,
I mean,
I guess the
only term here
to mention is
basically search
engine optimization.
So can you
elaborate on that
a little bit?
Yeah,
search engine
optimization is
optimizing your
site to get
a lot of organic
search results,
to get traffic
through people
going to Google
and searching
for a topic
and you ranking
on that first
page of Google.
You'll get some
traffic if you
rank on other
pages,
but your goal
with search
engine optimization
should be to
rank on that
first page as
one of the
first results.
So how do you
do that in 20
words or less?
20 words or
less?
It's possible.
Search engine
optimization itself
could be a whole
show.
It is,
and there are
just tons and
tons of sites
out there to
help that.
It's just that
search engines
have gotten so
complex that
there's just so
many things to
do.
You're right.
There are certain
things you can
do to generally
increase your
visibility on
search engines.
The number one
thing I would say
though would be
relevant links.
Right.
If you want
people to
search for,
to go to
Google and
search for
hacking and
have binrev come
up as the
number one
result,
you would want
a lot of
links all over
the internet
from other
computer security
related or
hacking sites
that say
hacking and
link to
binrev.com.
Yeah,
that is to
say that the
actual word
hacking behind
it has an
anchor that's
href to
www.binrev.com.
So it
associates the
word hacking
with that
link,
with that
site.
So,
you have your
missions.
Everybody go
out there and
hook binrev up.
Get us up
there,
son.
We actually
have a pretty
decent SEO and
it's unintentional.
It just worked
out that way that
people link back
to us,
which is very
cool.
So anybody that
wants to link
back to us is
definitely cool.
And when people
do search for
a lot of
hacking topics,
they are
finding us.
That's also why
we're growing
exponentially again
because the
more people we
get,
the better our
SEO is,
the higher we
climb into the
search engines,
which means the
more people we
get and it
keeps happening
over and over
again.
So,
pretty good
stuff.
Now,
I do want to
cover,
I guess,
some myths or
some things that
I know people are
thinking right now,
probably talking
about in IRC
right now,
different ideas
that I'm sure
many people have
about gaming the
system.
You're not the
first to try to
think of this.
You're not the
first person to
think that there's
a way to commit
click fraud and
not get caught.
All right?
So,
I thought we'd go
through some of
those if you'll
indulge me a little
bit,
Natus.
Such as?
Are you talking
about with search
engine optimization?
Are you talking
about getting paid
and making money?
Just generally.
Well,
I mean,
if there's something
else you wanted to
say about search
engine optimization,
certainly.
But I was thinking
more along the lines
of those people who
are thinking how they
can open a Google
account and make
some money by,
trying to cheat
the system.
Like,
for example,
because we mentioned
about the bin rev ads
because we don't have
time,
I don't think,
to go into search
engine optimization
too much.
It was brought up in,
I think we should move
on to some of the myths
and get those out of the
way.
It was brought up in the
forums that we might
have to go to some
side of advertising on
the site to help pay
for the new server.
And a couple of the
things that were
mentioned in there
were from people
who definitely don't,
they're well-intentioned
and it's appreciated
the ideas,
but obviously don't
know how these
systems work,
which is kind of
what made me want
to do this topic.
For example,
I know someone said,
and I don't want to
embarrass or single
anybody out,
I mean,
obviously people can
go to the forums
and see,
but one of these
myths that a lot
of people believe
is creating a page
on your site
somewhere and
just putting 50
ads on that page
and telling everybody
to go click on them.
Before you hit the
forums,
go over to this
page,
click on my ads
for two minutes
and then come back
to the forums
and that way
we'll make money.
Will that work,
Natus,
or will that not
work?
It's a little bit
more complicated than
that.
With Google,
it won't work
specifically because
Google only allows
you to place three
ads,
maximum of three
ads on your page.
Same with Yahoo.
Actually,
Yahoo doesn't have
a limit.
No,
Yahoo added a limit
this week.
Did they really?
Last week,
yeah.
January 28th,
I think it was.
Oh,
I didn't know.
Is it three?
Three.
Oh,
okay.
Because they
used to not have
that.
It used to be
pretty vague.
It was like,
as long as it's
not too many.
Well,
I mean,
even with Google
ads,
their limit is
three,
but certain people
get special
privileges.
Isn't that right,
Mr. Calacanis?
Yeah,
right.
You have to be
like a premium.
Exactly.
You can make
them that money.
They will bend over
and make a special
case for you.
Yep.
But,
all right,
so that,
that other question,
you can't really do
that.
Not with PPC ads,
pay-per-click ads.
Not with CPM ads,
either.
You could do that
with affiliate ads,
though.
You could have as many
affiliate ads as you
want.
But,
that's why a lot
of those affiliate ads
are going to the
cost per action,
like you're talking
about,
so that the clicks
don't really do
anything.
Yeah,
it's actually turning
into a mixture.
Right.
So,
that wouldn't work.
So,
A,
loading a bunch
of ads on your
actual pages,
like,
you know,
like,
well,
to use my good
friend Mr. C there,
all of his sites,
all of his blog sites,
he loads them down
with ads.
Yep.
Now,
he gets away with it.
He has tons of ads.
Yeah,
he gets away with it
because he's getting
so many hits or
whatever,
they give him
special treatment.
But,
that's an exception
to the rule.
So,
just be,
also,
it's because,
I mean,
his pages aren't
like,
his pages are bomb.
You know,
his pages aren't
just,
you can scroll down
forever on Engadget.
Well,
yeah,
Engadget or
Hackaday,
for example,
you'll notice you'll
see more than the
minimum number of
ads.
Yeah.
Some of these
advertising companies
also have no
compete clause.
They won't let you
use their ads.
Google will not,
is this true,
and that is that
you can't have
Google and Yahoo
on your page
together?
If you have to
have one or the
other,
they will not
let you use it
if you have
the other person's
ads?
Google actually
just changed
their,
you can't rotate
between Yahoo,
you used to be
able to rotate
between Yahoo
and Google ads,
or anything else
that looked like
Google AdSense ads.
So,
you could have,
like,
MySpace,
for an example,
used to rotate
ads,
they would show
Google ads,
and they would
show Yahoo
YPN ads.
But now,
if you're going
to do AdSense ads
on your site,
you have to,
exclusively do
AdSense ads.
You can't,
it's not even
on the same page
throughout your
site the whole
time.
You can't have,
you can't rotate
between Google
and Yahoo.
Yep.
Alright,
so,
loading down
tons of ads
on your pages,
that's,
unless you're an
exception like
the ones we
mentioned earlier,
you're not going
to be able to
do that because
they have rules
against it.
So,
you can't just
load down your
pages with a
bunch of ads
and little content.
You can't make
a site or a page
on your site
that's nothing but
ads that,
like,
exclusively,
go here first
and click through
this and then
come to our
forums.
You also can't
make a site
that,
and I know a lot
of people have
seen these probably
with the Prawn
sites or the
Wears sites or
whatever this is,
to download this
file,
click this ad or
click three ads on
this page or
something like that.
You're not allowed,
and back me up on
this now,
a lot of people
don't know this.
It is in the
terms of service.
You are not
allowed to solicit
people to click
on your ads.
You can't even
use the word
support.
You can't say,
please support our
site by clicking
on these ads.
Isn't that true?
Yep.
Because you've got
to remember,
from the other
side,
people are paying
for advertising,
and if you say,
support us by
clicking on the
site,
they know that
you're begging
people to click
on ads only for
support with no
intent of buying
or having any
actual interest,
and that's not
fair to the people
paying for
advertising.
So it's kind of
understandable.
So a lot of
people don't realize
that there is a
rule.
You cannot say
on your site,
please click on
our ads to
support our
site,
because you are
basically asking
them to commit
click fraud in a
kind of a roundabout
way, I guess.
That's probably the
way they look at it.
So you cannot do
that.
Another thing you
can't do,
and Natas and I
were talking about
this earlier,
this is something
that was in my
Google AdWords
and some other
stuff I've talked
about on previous
shows a long time
back, was making
fake sites with
little or no
content, with the
only goal being to
increase your SEO,
your search engine
optimization, get
that site high, so
that you can generate
more traffic to it
just to put ads on
it.
To use a specific
example, in my
Google AdWords I
talked about the
highest paying
keyword, or one of
the highest paying,
if not always regularly
the highest paying,
of course Natas is
mesothelioma,
lung cancer, or
not just lung
cancer, I guess it's
any kind of cancer
from asbestos, mostly
lung cancer.
You can't go out
there and just make
up a fake site and
write an article that
says mesothelioma is
great.
I like to write
mesothelioma.
Don't you love
mesothelioma?
You can't go out
there and make a
site that's not real
or not legitimate.
Again, in the early
days, everything being
so automated and
people aren't going
to go out there and
check every single
site, well, because of
click fraud and because
of the possibility and
especially the valuable
keywords like that, they
are in fact cracking down
on that.
Are they not?
Yeah, they're definitely
cracking down on that.
So you would have to be
very convincing.
You'd have to put a lot
of time and effort into
making your, quote, fake
site look real.
You'd have to spend a lot
of time to make it very
real and convincing and
you probably might as
well make a real site if
you're going to go that
route.
Right.
What those are called,
they're called made for
AdSense sites.
Well, yeah, because AdSense
being the dominant, but it
obviously would work with
any of the advertising
sites.
Right, but that's what
they're referred to as
across the Internet.
Gotcha.
Let's see, other myths.
Okay, first of all, most
people may or may not know
this.
I guess some people may or
may not know this, that if
you think you're going to
go and click on your own
ads because you can use
Tor, wrong answer.
Natus, why can't they use
Tor?
Because Tor has some,
actually it's not Tor,
it's Provoxy, I believe,
that has something built in
that removes the ads, right?
No, it's Tor.
If you go through Tor, as
a matter of fact, let's
give you a check.
I talked to the creator of
Tor last year, I went out to
dinner with him, with Lance
and, well, so I went out to
dinner with him and I asked
him that question, and he
said it has nothing to do
with Tor, it has to do with
built-in program Provoxy that's
bundled with it.
I'm pretty sure that all Tor
exit nodes are known and
blocked at this point in time.
Okay, that's probably true,
too.
Yeah, so they can tell.
But they specifically, he said
that Tor didn't do anything to
block them, that it's something
that Provoxy...
No, Provoxy will block them on
the user end.
If you go to a site and you're
not seeing your own ads for some
reason, that may be because
Provoxy is blocking them out.
But, I did a lot of
experimenting back when I was
doing the Google AdSense stuff,
and if you just visit a site
with Tor, even with Provoxy
turned off or with, well,
anyway, like Tor Park or
something like that, it knows
that you're coming through
Tor, and if you try to click,
first of all, it won't show you
because of Provoxy, but if you
do get them to show up anyway,
it's not going to count that as
a real click.
Anything that it can tell is
coming from a Tor exit node,
it's going to click, it's going
to flag that as a fraudulent
click and not pay you.
Even if it does show up in the
short term.
Okay.
So, that also may be a reason
that a lot of people, now that
I think about that, I never put
two and two together until just
now on the show, live.
What a moron.
I wonder if the fact that a
lot of us use Tor in general
for our web surfing, for the
anonymity, if we've ever clicked
on an ad through Tor, maybe that
did set off flags thinking we're
committing click fraud, when in
fact, none of us were.
I wonder if that could be what
they were doing.
They never released or gave you
any explanation of what their
accusations were.
Yeah.
Hmm, interesting.
But, any kind of Tor or
proxies, a lot of those things
are known, and if they come
through any of those, they will
not pay you for it.
So, that's something else.
Proxies will work, but hit or
miss, you know.
Right, exactly, yeah.
And, the only other thing is just
writing a script in general of any
kind.
You can certainly write a script
that goes out there and hits your
own ads or something like that.
It's a little tricky.
They try to avoid making a URL stat,
anything static that will make it
easy for you to script.
But, I do believe, I would argue,
that it can certainly be scripted
still, and if you do it right, it
could be done.
You've got to be careful with the
script, because if you start
brute forcing, it becomes obvious,
and you're busted.
You can't have any kind of pattern
in there.
And, I know, actually, my good
friend asked this, and I went through
a long talk on this, and he
incorporated a lot of this stuff
into some scripts that he was
working on, writing a timer, a
random timer in there, so, fine.
You don't want to brute force it,
that's fine, but you've got to have
some sort of timing mechanism to
make it come back to a site.
Any type of regularity at all is
going to be noticeable.
If they see a hit from a certain
IP, or a certain set of IPs, or to
a certain site's advertisements every
ten minutes on the dot, that's
going to be noticeable.
So, you've got to make it so that
it randomizes.
So, ten minutes, plus or minus,
random, one to five more minutes
and seconds, and have it rotate.
Or, plus or minus, thirty minutes,
so that it really looks even more
random, comes from different
proxies, things like that.
I do think it can still be
scripted, is my point.
Don't want to get into too much
detail there.
Yeah.
Another thing that they would
definitely look for with that is
they would definitely see that
your click-through ratio is, like,
going through the roof.
I mean, click-through ratios are
usually really low.
Good point.
Usually, like, 0.5%.
Yeah.
If it's below 0.5%, they consider it a bad ad.
Anything above 0.5% gets your
quality score, it starts climbing.
Sorry, what did you say?
A 0.5% or below is not so good,
but 0.5% or above is good.
So, I mean, you wouldn't, if you were
trying to, I can't speak, if you were
trying to commit click fraud, and, you
know, you just visited your site a
hundred times, out of those hundred
times you clicked an ad, your click-through
ratio would be 100%, and that would be
unheard of.
Of course.
You would know something was going on
there.
Well, but then you combine that with all
the people that are browsing your site
and not clicking, it'll come back down
somewhat, but it probably would be
noticeable.
The bigger your site is, the more you
could get away with it.
You would have to add in a lot of fake
traffic.
Yeah, just a lot of, just the economics,
the math of the whole thing works out.
But, you know what, we are running low
on time, so unless there's any, you got
any closing thoughts before we move
into the shouts?
Or do you want to just go ahead and
move into the shouts?
I just want to say that the internet is
one big hustle.
One big hustle?
It's not tubes?
No, it's a big hustle.
It's not, it's not a big dump truck?
The internet is, possibilities are
endless.
Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,
do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
We need some hustle theme music now.
Word.
We need Rick Ross.
Every day I'm hustling.
Am I going to get sued for singing that
now?
It's a copyright violation?
All right, shouts from me.
How about I'm going to give shouts to
everybody up at ShmooCon conference
coming up in March.
So, shmoocon.org, go check them out.
And to the Droops family.
I hope they're all doing well right
now.
Anything, any other shouts from you?
Shout out to those people.
And shout out to everybody in BinRev and
DDP.
Woo!
Pound BinRev on IRC.
Represent!
Site of the week is very easy.
It's searchmarketing.yahoo.com.
Go check it out and read up yourself as
far as what Yahoo's new offerings are
going to be.
And let's see if they can compete with
the big G.
E-mail of any kind, feedback, flames, hate
mail, naked pictures of females only, to
radio at binrev.com.
And our closing music this week is a little
song called Hip Hop is an Endangered
Species.
It is from Chronomicon.
Not to be confused with Infonomicon.
Chronomicon.
So, Natas, thank you for being on the
show, my friends.
It's been too long.
Yeah, thanks.
But we will tell everybody that we will
see them next week.
Same Mac time.
Same Mac channel?
Yeah, I don't know.
I was trying to be different.
I failed.
I it.
I failed.
I barriers go, I bail.
I failed.
I bail.
I failed.
Or maybe like
We
Or maybe like
Or maybe
Or ütit
Orange, Orange, Orange, Dangerous Music, Orange.
Orange, Orange, Dangerous Music, Orange.
Orange, Orange, Orange, Dangerous Music, Orange.
Orange, Orange, Orange.
Maybe, like, we catch him in an endangered species, and then we could kill it.
That'd be cool.