This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
and a fag pwned.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattling your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones.
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crassies.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANS, SIFs, SISs.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.
Hello everybody and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio episode number 197.
I am Leroy Jenkins.
Actually, I'm Stank Dog once again. Sorry to disappoint you.
Couldn't be as cool as Leroy Jenkins.
But I do have somebody equally cool as my co-host this week.
Savant, welcome back to the show, my friend.
Oh wait, I thought you said somebody cool.
So, anyway, hang on, go ahead.
And today, let's see, original.
Turn it on up!
The original air date is July 31st, 2007.
Two double lot seven represent.
And let's see, we have a lot of housekeeping to do since we haven't done a show in, I don't know, three weeks maybe or something like that.
So, I guess let's jump right into it.
So, again, Savant joining us this week because we have a pretty cool main topic coming up.
We'll get to that in a second.
Briefly in the housekeeping, I want to mention that I actually, even though we didn't do another bin rev,
and I guess I shouldn't, I should be ashamed to mention this,
but I did do an episode of another show, Twatech Radio, Today with a Techie.
So, if you go check that out at twatech.org, that's twatech.org, go check that out.
Lots of people putting up, as a matter of fact, probably my show's rolled off the list of shows by now.
They're putting out shows so quickly, so shouts to those guys over there.
Let's see, what else is on my, oh, this was really cool.
I don't know if you caught this one, Savant, or yet.
It's going to be in reruns for a while, I'm sure.
But our good friend, a friend of bin rev radio, and a personal friend of mine, my good friend Alanka,
was on Nova Science Now this past week on PBS, discussing, of course, her favorite topic, cryptos.
It aired on July 4th, and it will be repeated, as I said, so keep an eye out for that.
Watch your PBS stations, and look through your TiVos, find a description, look for keyword cryptos or something,
and see if you can cue that up and watch it, or possibly find it in the tubes somewhere.
I'm sure it's out there.
There's a lot of stuff in the tubes, have you noticed that?
Yeah, they're not as clogged as some people would make us think they would be.
The tubes aren't flowing with good stuff.
They need to be flushed out every once in a while, but you know, all good tubes do.
By the way, I make some hella good Kool-Aid, cherry Kool-Aid.
I am like the foremost chef-preparer of cherry Kool-Aid in the known world.
I think I make better Kool-Aid than Mr. Kool-Aid.
Than the Kool-Aid man?
Than the Mr., yeah, the big red dude that breaks through the wall.
Hey, Kool-Aid!
He's bust through the wall, and the stain just swings and knocks him out of the right hook.
Fuck you, I'm the Kool-Aid man.
I will fuck the Kool-Aid man up.
I got some hella good Kool-Aid on the show tonight.
And actually, you got some iced tea.
We just swapped places this time, huh?
I know.
What's up with that?
But I don't have sweet tea.
I have unsweetened pure leaf iced tea.
Oh, you evil, evil man.
No, I...
Well, you're out there.
I lift it even.
It's not really good.
You're out on the West Coast, so I can understand you.
A bunch of flakes and fruits and nuts out there.
Yeah, but it's interesting.
If you look at the nutrition facts, and it has zero across the board.
There are calories, fat, sodium, flavor, protein.
You look at the list of good stuff in there, and nutrients and whatever, and it's just a picture of the empty set.
Yeah, basically.
It's just a big zero with the not sign through it.
16 ounces of nothing.
Or it's got the word nutrition with the not sign around it, like no smoking, no nutrition.
So, yes.
Anyway, Nova Science Now, which is a very, very cool show.
I've been listening to the podcast for years.
Actually, I've come back because somebody asked about that in one of our emails this week.
But Ilanka was on this very cool episode.
Her, as well as some of the other people that have been working on cryptos, they did a great job of covering it for people who've never seen it before.
They had some video, so that was really cool, and Ilanka did some interviews with her, and she gave some stuff.
She also gave a challenge at the end of the show that, as far as I know, hasn't been cracked yet.
I went out and checked the tubes, checked the PBS message boards and whatnot, and I did not see that anyone had answered it yet.
So, shouts to Ilanka.
Cool stuff.
Hooray, Ilanka.
I have to do hooray, Ilanka.
Like, do they have hooray beer out there on the West Coast?
Oh, red stripe beer.
Yeah, man.
We're not in a fucking cave.
You might as well be.
Oh, man.
You West Coasters.
Hooray beer.
Red stripe.
It's not that great, though.
No, I've never actually tried it.
Yeah, I mean, there's a reason they spend all their money on commercials.
You ever notice that the amount of money that a beer company spends on the commercials is inverse to how good their beer actually tastes?
Well, if that's true, then Budweiser would be the bottom of the barrel, because they spend bajillions of money on advertising.
I would have to agree with that.
Oh, wow.
I thought, like, I thought...
Yeah, I'm kind of a beer snob.
Oh, I thought Milwaukee's Best was kind of like the bottom of the barrel beer.
Well, I mean, even Pabst Blue Ribbon, which is arguably considerably cheaper, is a lot better.
I mean, it tastes slightly better than Bud, but, man, will it mess you up.
Yeah, and we've got to back off the beer.
We don't want to cross content paths with that other podcast about beer and technology.
Uh-oh.
Ooh, jab deep with that one.
Uh, let's see, what else in the old housekeeping section this week?
Oh, T-shirts.
We have new T-shirts, finally.
So, I held off, even though I've been working on it, and I put the order in.
I waited until I actually had them in my hands before I announced it.
And, I know we don't have video, but maybe here on the microphone, I can...
There's the shirt tapping against the microphone.
I have the shirts in my hand.
They look very cool, I think.
We did them in, uh, did a dark charcoal gray and an orange shirt, which matched the designs.
I posted them in the forums, forums.binrev.com, if you want to check them out.
Kind of going away from the whole black shirt thing.
It's getting kind of old, so I thought we'd change it up.
And, hopefully, we'll be coming out with some new designs in the future, so keep an eye out on the forums.
If these do well and people enjoy these, we'll start mixing in some other colors, some other styles,
some other slogans and things like that.
And, sizes.
I expanded the sizes this time.
The first time we did shirts, we only did XL, because it was easier and cheaper to do it that way.
This time, I was able to get some mediums and larges, and actually got a couple...
I got a couple smalls out there, for the Strom Carlson's out there, who are either...
For those people out there who are either small or like to wear their shirts really, really tight,
for whatever reason.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
So, we do have...
I've only got, like, I think, two or three, three or four of each design in small, so...
We'll see how quickly those go, and if we need more, we can do them in the next batch.
Unfortunately, I couldn't get anything larger than XL, because anything larger than XL,
they start jacking the price up.
It's a dollar extra for the 2XL.
It's $2 extra for the 3XL, and so on and so forth.
So, we weren't able to do any of those in this batch, but we will try to do a few in the next one.
So, if you are big folk, I can still squeeze into an XL right now.
But if you can't, we will try to accommodate you in the next batch of shirts.
So, hopefully, in a couple months, when these sell out, if these sell out, we will get some more done.
You know, I've got to say, kudos to you on picking colors that were not black T-shirts.
Just yesterday, my old baby is looking through...
You know, we live together now, and she's looking at my half of the closet, and it's like 90% black T-shirts.
Yeah, right.
And she was...
I mean, apparently, women...
Some of the ones that don't keep a ton of clothes on hand all the time, it's because they're constantly cycling through their shit.
But I will never throw away a T-shirt that I like that even has, like, the most remote, sentimental value to me.
And all she sees is just a pile, like, eight feet deep of black shirts.
Yeah.
So, this will help me, you know, at least convince her that I should keep them.
Well, and I went over to the BR813 Tampa BinRev meeting this past weekend, and while I was over there, Spinsane made a comment to me because I was wearing the orange shirt, the new orange BinRev shirt, when I went over there.
And I was also wearing my orange baseball cap to go with it.
So, I was coordinated, as he pointed out.
So, you know, got to keep everything coordinated, got to keep the style working, you know.
We got a little style at BinRev, believe it or not.
Now that the designs are already at the printers, have you thought about maybe making some hoodies or some hats or expanding a little bit on that?
Well, actually, we...
Okay, the first batch of these I had done, I didn't want to push my luck too far.
I just wanted to get these things done and out, and because I needed them done, or I wanted them done, I should say, before DEF CON, so I could take some out for everybody.
So, I didn't want to push my luck too much.
I just wanted to get them done and in my hands.
Plus, financially, you know, I didn't have too much flexibility.
So, if these do well, the next batch will have a lot more flexibility, like I said, on sizes, designs, styles, and everything.
And now I have kind of a rapport with them, where they will...
Actually, they have a lot of things that they can do, as it turns out.
I talked to them after I got them, told them I was happy with the shirts.
Might tweak a couple little things on the next one, but I'm happy with them.
And they can do printing of all kinds of stuff, whether it's hoodies, caps, not even just clothing stuff.
They can do badges and bumper stickers and just about anything you could imagine.
So, you know, we have a lot of opportunities for, I guess, merchandising, for lack of a better word, which feels weird to say.
But, yeah, we have a lot of stuff that we can do.
And now that we have a relationship with them, kind of an open-door account, you know, we can just get what we want, have it all build, and they'll be flexible with me about all that stuff.
So, and once you've gotten a shirt done, for anybody who doesn't know, when you get shirts done, depending on how many colors you need, and these shirts ended up being, I think, three colors on each side, or three colors on one side and two on the other.
They charge you per screen, for each screen print, for each screen that they need to do an ink color through and design on.
They charge you for each one of those screens up front.
That's where the bulk of the cost comes in.
So, you know, a lot of the money you have to shell out up front to get these screens.
Now, if I go back and want them to do another batch, and now every place is a little bit different, but with this place, they'll keep the screens on file for six months.
So, if I want to order again within the next six months, they will already have them done, still saved on file, and they will not have to pay for the screens again.
So, that will save some money on future ones and make it faster and easier for us to roll out some more shirts, especially the front of the shirts all have a uniform design to them.
It's the same style on the front chest of the shirt over the heart.
It's just different colors depending on what matches the shirt color itself.
So, that screen can be reused as well.
So, yeah, we've got a lot of possibilities we can do in the future with this, so I'm looking forward to it.
Hopefully, you know, I really just don't know what to expect in people's demand.
I've got a little over a hundred of each shirt design made, and let's see how they do.
You know, we've moved to a new server, and we've been kind of, you know, we've never put up donation links or anything like that.
We've never gotten on here and done an off-the-hook beg-a-thon or any of that stuff, WBAI, whatever.
Boy, I'm just pissing everybody off today.
So, yeah, exactly.
Hey, you know what?
We're ending season four here soon, so we might as well get out our shots while we can here.
Fire them off while we got them.
Okay, I'm going to say it.
Fuck dig.
Oh, no, you didn't.
You're going to have all the little dig fanboys now emailing us in.
I know.
The army of Kevin Rose.
Yeah.
You know, well.
DKR.
Yeah.
Oh, why are you pulling me into this?
Damn it.
I'm fighting.
I'm resisting.
Listen, you know what?
Here, listen.
I can't hate on Kevin for making a lot of money off of that.
I mean, I'm not going to hate on him for that.
It's just my original thing about not giving credit and stuff like that and probably even
holds through to Dig.
He has people that are doing the programming and the real work behind it.
Those are the people I give props to.
The coding team behind Dig, you get mad props from me.
I'll give you that.
All right.
Now, to the users on Dig, you all suck the big bone right down to the very last one of you.
How's that for pissing off an entire interweb community?
There's no mailing address associated with BinRev Radio, is there?
Well, I guess there is on the Who Is.
Yeah.
I can get all kinds of hate mail and anthrax and other stuff in the mail, I guess.
Oh.
God damn.
I better not joke about this stuff.
What the hell?
People hate me.
I'm going to get all kinds of dead animals in the mail.
Them's good news.
You know what?
It would be the worst thing ever if they were to send money and pie.
I really hope that none of our angry listeners send money and pie.
Oh, man.
That would be the worst thing ever.
Or Kool-Aid.
Yeah.
No packets of Kool-Aid.
Well, actually, Kool-Aid might be pretty scary, actually.
Like, what the fuck is this?
Is this cherry anthrax?
I didn't know anthrax came in flavors.
It does now.
Cherry anthrax.
Wow.
Oh, no.
I think you may have just coined a t-shirt phrase on that one.
I'm not sure.
BinRev.com.
Home of cherry anthrax.
Oh, man.
So why did none of the BinRev guys show up at DEFCON?
Oh, we couldn't get on an airplane.
Or we got on the airplane, but we didn't get off alive because we were all anthraxed to death.
Okay, let's see.
We haven't even gotten out of the housekeeping section yet.
Let's see.
Housekeeping.
What else do we have?
DEFCON meetup.
We are going to be having a little BinRev get-together for everybody who wants to go grab a bite to eat, hang out, chit-chat.
We'll be meeting in front of the registration desk in the Riviera.
We're going to be meeting starting at 3.30.
We'll wait around for about 15 minutes.
We'll start walking up towards that mall, fashion, square mall, fashion, store mall.
I don't know what that's called.
The mall that's right up on the street.
It's about Treasure Island, isn't it?
I think it's right across from the Wynn.
I don't know how close it is to Treasure Island.
I know it's straight across from the Wynn, though, on the opposite side of the street of the Wynn.
Okay.
But we'll walk.
That's why you're going to meet us there at the registration desk at 3.30.
I'll be wearing my BinRev shirts and whatnot, so we'll meet there.
We'll walk over there at about 3.45 so we can sit there and eat.
We'll probably be coming back around 5.30 to 5.45 because some people said there were some 6 o'clock talks that they would like to attend,
so we won't stay over there too long.
We'll be there for about an hour and a half, two hours, and get back for the 6 o'clock talks, and I will have the T-shirts there.
I will bring T-shirts with me.
I might have a few as I'm walking around before that, but they're going to probably go pretty quickly.
So I will make it a point to bring a large batch of those to the get-together.
So if you want one and you haven't seen me by then, then we will have them there.
And I guess that's it.
I will actually, I'll have some presentations with me.
I don't know how it goes.
It's pretty loud over there.
It's a typical mall, so it's always hard to give presentations.
But I always have a couple with me, always have some on the laptop, so I will bring them.
And if anyone's interested and wants to see some, actually the one I gave at the BR813 went over really well the other day,
especially with a live Internet connection at Panera Bread, I was able to actually prove, do a proof of concept, show the slides.
Here's how it works.
Here's what I did.
And now you guys check and make sure, and it works, and it did.
So that was kind of cool.
So maybe we can do something like that.
And I think that's about it for housekeeping.
But you know what?
Before we move on to email, Savant, if I may put you on the spot here, something that came up recently that you may know more,
I'm sure you know more about than me.
I think actually I asked you about it a couple weeks ago.
We were talking about this new, is it Truth in Caller ID Act?
I mean, what's the official name of this thing?
They're calling it, the unofficial name is Truth in Caller ID Act, but there's actually two bills.
I'm not sure which one actually is going to get passed.
There's S-704, introduced February 28th.
Thanks, Eyeball, for pointing the link out on that one.
And there's another one called H.R. 251 at the House of Representatives.
The one of 251 has language that actually mentions Caller ID spoofing being illegal with intent for fraudulent purposes,
whereas S-704 is really fucking vague, and they say basically that anyone who says misleading or inaccurate Caller ID information
will be, you know, subject to heinous crimes and mutt rapings and whatever else.
Now, I think that both of these stand a good chance to be contested.
What bugs me about S-704 is that misleading or inaccurate Caller ID, well, what about Skype, you know?
Are there any, is Skype going to completely change how they do their Skype out service?
I mean, I suppose it would be easy for them to just block Caller ID completely to be compliant,
but right now it sends, what is it, 000123456?
I think that is right, yeah.
Or maybe there's an extra zero in there.
Four zeros, yeah.
Okay, now, I don't, one thing I'm not certain of is the status on which, if either or both laws got passed or whatnot.
But the other one, the House of Reps 251, that one in and of itself doesn't really bother me that much
because that's a line about fraud.
So, if I'm calling up, you know, if I call you, Stank Dog, and I have Kevin Rose's phone number, you know, on the Caller ID, as a prank.
I am so answering that.
Am I committing fraud?
I mean, I guess so.
If you got your hopes up and you answered the phone thinking it was Kevin, but...
Yeah, well, my problem with that one more is, like, there are...
Caller ID is a tool, right?
It's an actually, it's a useful...
Kevin Rose is a tool.
What a coincidence.
Oh, my gosh, we are so going to get hate mail, like I care.
You think he listens?
There's no way he listens to the show.
No, but some, the fanboys will listen and report back to him.
Or post it.
The army of Kevin Rose, a core.
Yeah, they will.
I mean, honestly, they will.
They've always...
I'm just teasing, man.
You can email me personally, savant, at fear-tube.com, if you want to talk some shit back.
Who cares?
They can email us, whatever.
Here's the thing, though.
There's legitimate purposes for using spoofed caller ID.
I mean, there are a lot of great, useful applications of this.
Bill collectors.
I mean, I'm sorry.
I know a lot of people don't like them, but if you don't pay your bills, a bill collector
comes after you.
They have to use whatever tools they can to try to get in touch with you and collect your
bills.
I mean, nobody likes them.
We all hate them, you know, all that good stuff.
But you know what?
It's not right to take away a tool that they use to do their job.
Private investigators, the same way.
You know, they can't call from their number or from a number that's recognized or easily
known or that gets out there in the street.
People know, oh yeah, the agent's number is this.
If you ever see it, don't answer.
So, you know, I see it as a tool to them if they do their research and their homework
properly.
If they're a good PI, they can spoof your mother's phone number to you just to make you
answer it.
Now, I think, and I am not a lawyer, I'm talking out my ass here, but I would think
that that should be safe.
I don't know if it is under the wording of these things, but it should be safe until
or if the moment you say, hi, this is your mom, then you're impersonating someone, you're
committing fraud, you're saying, hi, I am Kevin Rose.
That's when you would be crossing the line.
But just sending the number itself doesn't really seem...
There's a couple stipulations in the language that actually kind of addresses those.
Now, it is not illegal in any way, shape, or form to block your caller ID from being
sent completely.
So if it's withheld or private or unknown, those circumstances are okay.
So I believe that, you know, skip tracers or whomever can still do this under those
stipulations.
And it also specifically grants law enforcement officials the right to spoof caller ID.
I don't know if skip tracers or bail enforcement agents are, you know, technically law enforcement
agents.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But at least those stipulations are made.
But, I mean, to commit crime or, like, misleading or fraud, isn't fraud already illegal?
Well, yeah, I guess it is.
But I guess, see, it's one of those things that's vague or hard to define what fraud is,
I guess.
And even intent to defraud, I mean, does there have to be financial loss involved for the
legal...
I don't know what the legal definition of fraud is.
Right.
Well, good point.
But, I mean, like, if someone calls up the police department and, you know, puts in a
phony 911 call and they send SWAT team out to their house, is that not already illegal?
Well, yeah.
I mean, maybe it's not, but I would think it is.
Yeah, I would think so, too.
I mean, but I'm not sure what law it's breaking.
If it's a fraud law or a misuse of a government, yeah, something, I just don't know what law
would be broken with that.
I don't know.
Oh, yeah.
Speaking of 911 calls and the misappropriation of law enforcement...
How's that for a segue?
I got a visitor.
I got a couple...
I got a visit from the San Diego Police Department on Saturday.
I wasn't home at the time, but...
Luckily.
They came over and my landlord answered.
Apparently, someone from my house had been calling 911, and this is an unlisted number.
I mean, nobody has...
I think you're the first person I'm giving it to, and that was yesterday after the fact.
Mm-hmm.
So I found out what happened.
I have recently been helping the Beeve test his iWAR program out of the CSV version, and,
you know, Beeve did a great job.
I found a little tiny bug, you know, not a big deal.
He has a blacklist that does not allow you to dial certain numbers, like the White House
or 411 or, incidentally, 911.
Right.
So all is cool and good there.
If you try to dial, it just won't work.
Incidentally, he's also got an option that will allow you to save your scan progress and reload
it later.
And on the command line, for ease of use, you can specify the area code, the exchange, and
then the range of extensions that you'd like to scan.
So while I was doing this, I was scanning, you know, 619, XXX, 9100 to 9150, I believe.
51?
Anyway, I canceled it, and I loaded back up, but I forgot to specify the 619 and then the
area code.
So it just loaded, only the extensions, 9100 through 9150, and as soon as it hit, 9110.
9110.
It called 911.
And then...
9111?
And it called back at 9111.
Oh, no.
And it was just before I could, you know, speak in terms of the process, and it already called
911 like three times.
But I didn't really think anything of it, because I couldn't hear the voice through the modem
speaker.
So I was like, whatever, all right, let's go to Comic-Con, and we packed up the ship
and left.
And as I was pulling out, I saw the squad car drive by and didn't really think anything
of it until my landlord called me freaking out, wanting to know if, you know, my girl
was with me or if she'd been kidnapped or fell down the stairs or something.
Wow.
So that's a little excitement.
Yeah, there's a little bug in the software that you might want to look into.
But other than that, love the program.
Be a good job.
Did you say no?
Oh, it was, sorry, that was just my war dialing gone bad.
Fuck no.
I said, oh, man, it must have been my cat.
Sorry about that.
My cat?
What the fuck kind of cat do you have?
If your cat can dial 911, I'll buy him right now.
You know, what's worse is that my only phone in the house is a rotary.
So that cat would have had to be like, really dial 911.
Damn.
I don't know what you've been training that cat to do.
Oh, man.
Actually, what's interesting, side, side, side note, if you look up polydactyl cats,
the cats that have extra digits on their hands, and I swear to God, our cat has thumbs.
Awesome.
That is so cool.
I'm not even joking.
It's neat.
Do they have claws on them?
Oh, yeah.
So they're fully functional thumbs.
They're not like little things just hanging there dead.
No, no.
I mean, it looks like he can hold a pencil and write a ransom note if he needed to.
That is so cool.
Yeah, it's pretty sweet.
I want a cat with six thumbs, or six with an extra thumb.
Yeah, you know, I'm sure that you can buy them online.
Polydactyl.
I think I'm saying that right.
It sounds like a fucking dinosaur cat.
That was a polydactyl cat.
It hurt where?
Where, Savant?
Where did it hurt?
Our audience wants to know where did it hurt.
I need a sip of this unsweetened crop.
Well, while you take a sip of that, I'm going to send us into the email bag.
And let's do some email this week.
We have quite a bit of email.
I'm going to go into my speed reading mode here to try to get through it quickly so we
can get to our main topic.
So, bear with me here.
I am going to see how quickly we can get through this.
Email number one comes from Greg, question mark.
Greg says, how do I talk to you when you're live on the radio?
Greg, we are not live on the radio.
You don't talk to us live on the radio.
Do not.
Also, also, Greg, don't send emails and then turn on your autoresponder, please.
Please.
I don't know why people have an autoresponder on while they're sending you an email.
And when you reply to them and explain, we're not live, and you get a bounce email back
that says, sorry, but I'm away.
Please leave your message has been queued and we'll be responded to in due time.
It's not live either.
Yeah, exactly.
So, that's what I should have said.
How do I talk to you live on the email tubes?
Anyway, so no, we are not live.
Ratchet and Strom did some live episodes, I think, a couple times, didn't they?
And those were interesting.
Those were fun.
But, yeah, we, that was a very short-lived thing and kind of tough to do, made it tough
to record, et cetera, et cetera.
So, we don't do that.
Haven't done that in a long time.
So, thanks for wanting to chime in on something live, but it doesn't happen that way.
Pre-recorded.
Okay, email number two, email number two comes from Ryan.
See, I'm doing my David Letterman now.
Ryan says, this is a good one.
Ryan says, quote, your mic is on.
I clicked on the radio button and I'm getting a TV in the background and what sounds like
somebody eating dinner.
Just letting you know in case you didn't.
So, yeah, I'm like, what the fuck is this guy talking about?
Watching TV and eating dinner.
Okay, like, this is one of those emails where you're like, you know it's not possible,
but you still check anyway because it's so weird.
Like, I record this show on a whole separate computer machine on the other side of the
hack cave here that's dedicated to recording the show and doing video editing.
That's all this box does.
So, it's not the one that's on my regular computer machine over there that I surf the
interweb with and stuff like that, which also has a microphone on it, but I never use
that.
But, this one I only turn on while I'm recording the show and turn it off when I'm done.
Again, the show being pre-recorded.
So, there's no way I could be streaming live or have left it streaming live while I'm eating
dinner or anything.
But, yeah, I still felt the need for some reason to go check to see if, you know, somehow maybe
the thing kicked in or I don't know.
And, of course, I was not, but I did check the stream out and I clicked on the stream to
listen to it myself.
And, sure enough, I could hear, and this was many hours, I'd gotten the email later on
when I got home late that night, so who knows how long it had been on.
But, I did hear something streaming live.
So, I'm not sure what it was or who it was or anything like that, but somebody was streaming
live.
I heard kind of a static sound in the background.
I guess they were eating dinner and watching TV and fell asleep.
It wouldn't be cool if I would have heard somebody snoring.
That would have been kind of funny.
But, yeah, sure enough, someone, and I'm guessing one of our shows that records live or that streams,
I should say, that streams a live show.
I'm looking over at you, Linux Link Tech Show.
I'm not pointing fingers, but I'm looking in that direction.
Forgot to turn off their microphone after they were done streaming, which I think is hilarious.
I think that would have been so awesome if they would have said anything funny or juicy
or embarrassing or something like that while it was going on.
Like, they're eating dinner and watching prawn in the background.
That would have been awesome.
Oh, that would have been the greatest scene in the background.
The sound of points.
Oh, my gosh, what a great outtake that would have been.
That would have been so awesome.
So, I know that it was doing that for about 24 hours or so before we finally kicked the stream
off.
We left it going to try to figure out who it was.
Never got around to it.
We finally just kicked it and restarted the fallback so that the shows would kick in and
we could keep going again.
But, if, by any chance, anybody out there heard anything juicy or, even better yet, recorded
it.
I know some people record the streams overnight.
If you got any of that recorded, send it on in and let's see what we got or skim through
it for us.
Even better yet, find the good parts and send them in and we'll air them somehow, somewhere.
All right, let's see.
Next email comes from Coding Monkey.
Coding Monkey, our good friend across the pond there.
Coding Monkey says, Hi, Stank and Savant.
Greetings from England.
Oh, do I have to do my English voice, my Austin Powers?
No.
I wouldn't.
No, okay.
I'm not going to try.
It's a long email.
Good point.
I'm going to do it in my fast forward voice.
Okay.
Just finished listening to your episode on CCTV, that's closed circuit television, and it reminded
me of a funny incident at work some eight years ago, thought you might be interested.
Way back in 1999, he says, which Coding Monkey, you should know better, that is a non-Y2K compliant
date.
But I'm going to go with it.
Way back in apostrophe 99, I worked for a certain large hardware company.
Stuff was going missing at work.
Small things at first, and people put it down to the stationary elves, ELFS, E-L-F-S.
But then we lost a dev box, which cost something in the region of 30,000 pounds, which is probably
around 40,000 U.S., I would think.
We brought security in and demanded they call the police.
They were strangely reluctant to do this and kept insisting that it was a waste of time.
CCTV didn't extend to this part of building.
So I got this idea of setting up a Logitech QuickCam, which came with some pretty nifty
security software.
Back then, webcams looked a little bit, looked a bit like mobile phones from the 80s, do,
compared with today's slimline models, but it did the job and was motion activated, and
best of all, automatically adjusted to different light conditions, and the video was surprisingly
small in disk space terms.
Woo, that was a long sentence.
Holy crap.
Oh, man.
Yeah, I lightheaded on that.
To my surprise, my boss took me up on the offer, and I was given some hours and a bit
of cash to knock up a secret CCTV system, and only me and my boss knew about this.
My desk faced a large pile of boxes at the time, so I took the large cardboard box and
used a...
What the hell?
What is that?
B-I-R-O?
A biro?
What the hell?
To punch a hole through?
I think it's a rubber penis.
Oh, oh, a biro?
Oh, biro.
Oh, of course.
So I took a large cardboard box and used a rubber penis to punch a hole through.
I filled the box with smaller boxes as a rest for the camera to line it up with the
hole, and then I looped the USB cable for the cam through the bottom of the box and into
my own PC, and pointed the rubber penis hole at my open desk locker, which I then filled
with expensive and tempting hardware, like a DVD player.
It was probably the cheapest, most hacked-together security system ever, but it worked.
You know what?
As long as it works, that's the whole point of hacking.
Sure enough, along with videos of security borrowing the DVD player to watch at night
instead of monitoring the cameras, we also caught our man, the same security guard who
told us it wasn't worth going to the police, turned up at my desk, in the dark, wearing
old clothes, and borrowed an expensive PC video card.
Later, we saw he returned it, wiping it down with his sleeve to remove the prints.
To my disgust, the law weren't informed because the site manager thought this might count
as entrapment, despite the fact that the building had warnings, CC's TV, and Operation
posted on every wall.
But, this cowboy security company, Inc., didn't get their contract renewed again that year.
Guess the moral of the story is just because you've got cameras doesn't mean your site is
secure, and I personally would never trust the watchers.
Thank you, Coding Monkey.
And yes, somebody has to watch the watchers.
That's one of the phrases that I think cannot be repeated.
You know, you have to trust the watchers, and obviously, in your case, the watcher was the
one who was committing the crime and gaffling your equipment.
So, who watches the watchers?
Who watches the watchmen?
Anything to add on that one?
Let me get a sip of my Kool-Aid here, if you've got anything to add on that little story.
Yeah, I do.
I mean, that's a badass setup, but what I don't get is he wiped it down and returned it.
He wiped his fingerprints off.
Yeah, that's weird.
That is kind of strange.
Which, I mean, it sounds like, I don't know, did you guys get all the other stuff back?
You know, what about that death box?
Anyway, I don't know.
I guess I'm a little sad that he returned it after the end.
It would have been really sweet to get a righteous bust on these guys with your, you know, ghetto
closed circuit televisions.
Also, what about, you know, their concern, and I think it's a valid one, because I don't
know the legalities, but is it entrapment?
I don't think that's entrapment.
I mean, setting up cameras to capture them is not entrapment in and of itself.
And do they even have entrapment in England?
I don't even know.
But anyway, that doesn't constitute entrapment the way I understand it.
I mean...
Not by at least American standards.
Yeah, I mean, maybe it would be a stretch if you say you placed it, the item to be stolen,
out on the desk, tempting him to pick it up, like putting it out and obvious to lure him
in, but that's not the case, it doesn't sound like.
You placed the camera where...
Maybe he put it on his desk, on the security guard's desk, and that might be entrapment.
Yeah, it might be.
You know?
Anyway.
I don't know.
That's kind of a...
That's an interesting one there.
Especially that you've got it labeled, though, that it's all being recorded.
So I think that covers you quite a bit.
Right.
At least by any reasonable standards.
But, I mean, one thing that could be considered is you might want to not tip your hand at that
point if all he took was a video card that he gave back.
Maybe you want to keep your Sly James Bond setup secret a little longer to see if it takes
bigger bait.
Yeah, until he takes another 30,000-pound server, then you nail him.
Right.
Then you just nail him to the wall.
Right.
Anyway, that's a slick setup, Coding Monkey.
Good work.
Good stuff.
Let's see.
Next email comes from Vic.
Vic says, greets.
I have some Java quickies.
Following up, of course, on episode 195, where Not Theory and I discussed Java some more.
Vic says, one, Sun does have a nice F-O-S-S-I-D-E NetBeans.
It is quite good and very comparable to Eclipse.
I'm surprised that no one mentioned it.
I believe you mentioned Forte in one of the shows.
NetBeans is a descendant of Forte.
I think I certainly wouldn't have no confidence in saying this, but I thought Not Theory mentioned
that on one of the episodes, but I could be wrong.
Two, if you think Java is slow and not suitable for games, check out Jake2.
I guess I probably should have tiny URL'd this, but you know what?
You guys can Google Jake2, J-A-K-E-2, and probably find it.
It's a Java port of the Quake 2 engine.
Check out the benchmarks page.
I think you'll be impressed.
Thank you, Vic, for the email.
Now, you know, I appreciate the email, and I'm just going to, I'm not even going to say
this is devil's advocate, because I do feel like this.
I don't think that's really a good defense, your second thing there about Java being suitable
for games.
You're giving me one example, Quake 2.
And I'm not a gamer, Sivan, I don't know if you know, but Quake 2 is not even a new
game.
That's old, right?
It's pretty old, man.
Yeah, that's an older game, I thought.
I'm not big into that, but I thought that was an older game.
So, using A, an old game, that's many years old, outdated, as an example for Java, is not
exactly the most impressive thing, and B, that's it?
That's only one?
That's the only example that I've seen?
I mean, you're not seeing stuff like, I don't know, World of Warcraft, is that still the
new hotness?
I don't know.
I wouldn't know.
Yeah, new games and stuff like that.
I mean, why aren't those being ported and run over on Java?
There's certainly a reason from it.
I mean, if you want to defend and say that it's good for using in-game, good to be, can
run games well, I guess is what I'm trying to say, then, you know, it needs to be running
modern games, up to date, even a generation behind, not three or four generations behind.
Although, I mean, let me defend him as devil's advocate.
If you look at the games for your phones nowadays that are written in Java, I gotta say that
anything close to Quake, Quake 2, is just beat off of, you know, Sudoku for J2ME or something.
So, I mean, maybe that's where they should take it, take the cell phones.
Well, and they do, I mean, Java's definitely good for, like, puzzle games and card games
and those little, you know, it does graphics and stuff like that, but as far as the number
crunching and the geometry that's involved in 3D games and stuff like that and on-the-fly
rendering, I don't know.
I'm not saying it's bad, but I have never seen it before.
I mean, game companies spend millions of dollars these days developing games.
Just tremendous amount of research and looking into this kind of stuff.
Believe me, they don't want to have to port a game to how many different consoles that are
out there now and a PC and a Mac and yada, yada, all these different things.
They don't want to do that.
If there was one solution, the whole Java, write once, run anywhere thing that we argued
about, game companies would be all over that, like, stink on shit.
If they could get their damn game written once and run everywhere, they would be all over
Java.
There's obviously a reason they don't do that.
The gaming companies have not seen the power and support that they need, and that's why they're
not developing for it.
So the actions of the big gaming companies says a lot, unless there's some big conspiracy
theory there that I don't know about, and I don't know about it.
I'm not into that side of the scene, I guess.
Yeah, I don't know anything, and if I did, they wouldn't let me talk about it.
Ah, so you're part of the problem there, aren't you?
I don't know what you're talking about.
We'll move on before the overlords come down.
Hail Java.
Speaking of hail Java, our next email comes from Lord Collis.
Hail Lord Collis.
Lord, I guess I'm pronouncing that.
Kate Collis?
Yeah, it's got to be.
Hola, senor dog.
What's hack-a-lackin'?
I am just listening to 196, I think it is.
Always have loved your show.
In fact, I think you're the reason I no longer listen to Off the Hook, and that's not a bad
thing.
Nothing against 2600, but yeah.
At any rate, I have two questions.
Fuck that three, lol.
Lol.
This email's getting rougher the further it goes in.
Okay.
One.
Can I be unbanned?
No.
I forget what the fuck I got baned from the forums, but it's probably spelling based on
this email from the forums, but I can sign in, but I can't m-slash-post, which really doesn't
bother me much, cause I'm a lurker, but I think I was trying to demonstrate a script
kitty exploit, and what happens when you try one that has been patched to a friend of mine.
Lol.
At any rate, I want to be unbanned, so what Gibson shall I hack?
I mean, if you want, slash shrug.
Two.
Can I be an agent of the revolution?
No.
Like I said, I'm a lurker.
Lol.
But I know I can contribute.
I know I can contribute.
I just refuse to make certain things public.
Three.
You guys seem like you, um, W2EF you call it, would like to do more episodes.
Can I do one?
No.
Oh.
Warning.
It'd be on a very black hat topic.
Organize cybercrime for fun and profit.
Educational purposes only, yada yada.
Lol.
This is a one lolin' motherfucker right here, boy.
He did it all.
All I have to say is fear, period, anyway, period.
He did it all for the lols.
Uh, now don't get me wrong, I am not going to encourage people to get pooped by the feds.
Wait a minute.
I'm just picturing, picturing the pope with his cane and his pontiff and just fucking poking people.
We need, we need a graphic, we need, we need somebody to photoshop a graphic with a picture
of the pope and a FBI badge.
Oh, shit.
But, poked, I, I'm, I guess he meant popped or, or poked.
Yeah, yeah.
He could have meant poked.
Either way, I don't know what, whatever, I don't want either one of them.
I don't want to get popped or poked.
Or poked then popped.
Um, encourage people to get poked by the feds, but I know a lot of three letter agencies are
looking for people who know their stuff, so.
I, this guy's got like a, he must have a copyright on dot dot dot as well.
It can lead to a good job opportunity for those interested.
So yeah, I shouldn't really send this to Radio at BinRev, I guess.
I goo is, but I wanted to do a show, La Mafia, since you guys are fucking lazy.
Just kidding.
So I'll trust the android who checks the email to forward this to the correct decision-making
dictators.
KWAPLA!
That was as good as I could do in Klingon.
I actually had to look that up, because I'm like, what the fuck is KWAPLA?
It was too random to not be random, to be random, so I had to look it up, and apparently
KWAPLA is the Klingon word for success.
So, thank you for that.
You know, and we're joking with you a little bit here, but yeah, this is a, it kind of
gives me an opportunity to get this out there, because I get asked this question a lot from
email, private message, the occasional bitching PM on IRC, why was I banned?
Well, okay, seriously.
As far as ban a nation, dude, I don't know what happened.
First of all, I'm assuming you mean the forums, not IRC or some other stuff.
But the moderating team handles all that, and I'm just one small part of that.
I honestly don't remember, don't know who you are, why you were banned.
I don't know the story at all.
If you're permabanned, though, you know, we have temp ban, and then we have permabanned.
If you do something really bad, and you really have to go, you really have to screw up pretty
bad to get permabanned.
People that go out blazing and posting a bunch of crap in the forums, spamming us to death,
dropping docs on whatever, posting something that's just completely illegal and obviously
illegal, attempting to get people in trouble, repeated abusing of people on the forums of
our other members we're not going to allow.
So you really have to do something pretty bad to get permabanned.
I don't know if you did any of those, but if you did, then no, you're not going to get
unbanned, period, end of story.
And people, I just banned a couple people this past, actually yesterday, the day before
yesterday, I don't know, the last couple days I had to ban some returning visitors from
long, long ago that still aren't welcome back in anything that I do, but I digress.
Now, if it was a temp ban, then yes, we'll usually allow you to come back.
You're going to have to take some time to cool off.
I think what we've established is that you're going to be off for six months if you get temp
banned.
After six months, we'll take one of those strikes away from you.
We have a three strikes rule.
We'll take one of the warrens away and you'll come back with two warrens.
So you're still on the borderline.
You still better mind your P's and Q's, but yes, we will allow people back into the forums.
So that's really pretty much all there is to it.
Like I said, you have to do something pretty bad to get permabanned.
And I mean, there's probably less than 10 to 20 people in all of time that we've permabanned
from the forums.
I mean, if you looked at the banned list, you'll probably see quite a few, but most of those
are spammers, spambots and stuff like that we put into the banned group.
But yeah, so now I probably shouldn't say this and seal our forums admin and our monitoring
team will probably yell at me about this.
But your best bet, if you want to get back in there, is to probably create a new account.
But that is against the rules as well.
Let me just say that up front.
We do not allow multiple accounts.
If you're coming back to make another account just to avoid banation, we're going to find
it and you're going to get banned again.
So if you think you're going to come back as something 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever, 4.0, then
no, you're still not welcome back.
You're permabanned, you're permabanned, whatever.
However, we don't have the time to, and you know, just be realistic, we don't have the
time to go through and check every new member that registers.
So if you register in such a way that there's no connection to your old account, don't come
from the same IP address, don't type the same way you did in the old one, don't do the
same, make the same mistakes that you did before, then, you know, quite honestly, you'll
probably fly under the radar and you won't be seen.
But, you know, you get banned one day and you register the very next day, we're probably
going to put two and two together and figure it out.
Especially, you know, we've busted people, and this is, this is funny, we've busted people
for, they came back and they thought they were slick, different name, different email
account, different IP coming through proxies, coming through Tor, and come to find out that
they were using a signature that was stored on the same server as their old account.
You know, you think we're not going to notice that you're serving off of your same old
signature file from your old account.
I mean, that's kind of boneheaded, you're not a good hacksaw, you know, if you're going
to miss little things like that.
So, yeah, just, if you come back and you behave yourself, then you usually will squeak by.
If you get found out or if you get caught, don't cry or act as surprised when you do get
the second account banned, because it is against the rules, but if you come back and behave,
then you usually will, again, kind of fly under the radar.
Second question, though, to be an agent, yeah, you don't ask.
It's one of those things where, what is it, don't call us, we'll call you, type thing.
Agents are, you know, kind of the best and brightest from BinRev, I like to think, and
these are the people that are active in the forums, active in IRC projects and stuff like
that, and we invite people to be agents of the revolution.
These are people that we have respect for, that we appreciate, and we want to kind of
show them that we appreciate them and let them know, so they get access to a special
agents-only forum where they discuss things that are a little bit more, what's the word,
private, a little bit more underground, stuff that we don't want publicly abused or seen
yet, discuss things privately, different projects, things like that, and we try to give the agents
to the revolution, and they give us, as well, sneak peeks at other things that are coming
up, projects that they're working on, sharing information internally with other people that
we trust, since we all have kind of a bond, we've all kind of proven ourselves, and we
have, you know, the t-shirts that I mentioned earlier, we actually put those in the agents
forum early, so they had a good chance to preview those and give us some feedback and
comments, as well as, exactly, that's where all the Natus Prawn is, and we're going to
give them, you know, the agents are going to get a first shot at purchasing the shirts
too, so we will put them up for the agents only before we release them everywhere else.
What else, let's see, and yeah, it's basically something that you earn, you don't ask for,
it's just you come in, you contribute to the forums, we will see it, we do see everything
that goes on in the forums, we may not be able to remember and single out each individual
event, but it's just human nature, if we see somebody doing positive things and helping
out and contributing it, we do see that, we do see who our good regular contributors
are, and we do appreciate it, and we do try to let them know, so come to the community,
contribute over time, earn that trust, and we're always adding people to that, I just added
a few more people to the agents group in the last, I think about a week, last weekend,
so it's always moving, it's always growing, we're always adding people in there, so if
you want to be an agent of the revolution, just stick around, contribute, and you will
be noticed.
And the last thing here on, in terms of more episodes of the show, I'm going to go through
this quickly as time's starting to run low here, but we had some timing issues with some
of the hosts, and the bottom line is we just had to accept the fact that we can't do it
weekly anymore, can't do the show weekly right now, but we are already looking ahead, making
plans to the future to resolve that situation, so thank you for the offer for that, but I
know people are used to us doing the show every single week, and people look forward to the
show every week, I look forward to doing the show every week, but reality unfortunately
dictated otherwise, so we are still trying to do the best we can, finish out season four
here, and then starting with the next season we will talk about and work out something
for the future of the show.
Now in the meantime, I kind of mentioned this at the top of the show, you can check out
TWA Tech Radio, Today with a Techie, at twatech.org, which is always looking for good hosts and
episodes, if you want to record an episode, get with Enigma over there, the contact information
is on the site.
And about the black hat nature of the topic, be careful, there's nothing wrong with black
hat, we've done black hat topics on BinRev Radio before, it's just that you have to
be careful that you do it from an analytical standpoint, there's nothing wrong with studying
these questionable topics, I mean, education, discussion, learning, that's what we're all
about, that's what we stand for, but we don't want to encourage people, and we don't encourage
people to break the law or do something that's stupid or illegal.
Black hat topics in and of themselves are not illegal to discuss, you need to study them, you
need to debate and educate people on those subject matters, and how to defend against them, how
they work, you know, it's interesting material, it doesn't make it okay or right to do those
things, but it is okay to discuss, so we don't intentionally turn a blind eye towards black
hat topics, and we have, you know, kind of walked that gray line, walked on that tightrope
sometimes, but it's all about how you approach the topic that really matters.
So if you think you can do that, then yeah, contact, go over there and check out TWA Tech
Radio and see if you can do an episode of that show, and hey, it may take off and it may
do really well, so I would suggest that as your next cause of action.
And, how do you feel, you feel like reading an email here so I can get a drink of, I think
I'm starting to lose my voice here, there's a little Kool-Aid.
Here's Kool-Aid, alright, yeah, I'll jump in.
So the next email we have is from Sergeant Redneck.
Yeah, I've been listening to, I've been listening to BinRev on and off for the past year or so,
maybe even longer.
I seem to lose all kinds of time when I get older.
Damn, I know what you mean.
Anyways, I love the show, keep up the great work.
I was going back into the old episodes, I listened to episode 75, one of the telephonic
craptaculars, I got to thinking, even though it is getting harder to do, if perhaps you
could try to squeeze in another one for $200 or $225 or something.
I just find them amusing because they really show the power of social engineering when he
says SE, but I'm assuming that's what he means.
Not only that, but it's also cool to see that phone freaking is still somewhat possible.
I was born too late to get to mess with a rant with that shit when it was popular.
Finally, bringing my rant to an end, I wonder what podcast Eddie, Stank, or whoever is doing
the show this week listens to.
P.S.
Whoop, Perl, Sergeant Redneck.
Sergeant Redneck.
Okay, let me just jump in there real fast with a few things that I can answer.
As far as phone freaking being dead, it's really not dead.
It's dormant.
It's definitely changed shape, but there is a lot of the stuff that still works, a lot
of the stuff that, well, that stopped working more or less, and a lot of the things that
have just changed shape completely.
I highly recommend reading Royals' article on red boxing in the now.
That's pretty comprehensive.
Black Ratchet had a talk at Hope 6 that covered a lot of phone history and phone freaking, and
I think you'll find out that with the proliferation of voice over IP that a lot of the stuff that
used to not be possible anymore is possible.
Once again, ProjectMF.com is something like FiberOptic out of New York, where he tried to
bring blue boxing back through Asterisk.
As far as podcasts, I don't get the chance to listen to as many as I'd like to anymore,
but one that I do like security-related is called Spoikast.
Harrison and the crew over there do a really good job, and I really like listening to that
one, and Twisted Pair Radio is another one that I'm just constantly blown away with the
quality of their sound and how much like a real actual radio show that Al and company
over there put on.
So, how about you, Stank?
Well, let's see.
As far as podcasts, I listen to a lot of just general science shows.
Actually, I mentioned one of them earlier, Nova Science Now.
I've been listening to podcasts for that.
That's probably my favorite.
I also listen to Quirks and Quarks, which T. Oxtie, one of our IRC regulars, turned me
on to.
Quirks and Quarks is from the CBA Canadian Broadcasting Association, I think their science
show.
And I do listen to Off the Hook on occasion.
I subscribe to it.
I don't listen to it regularly.
I'm usually a month or two behind easily, and that's if I feel like listening to that
subject matter, the political stuff.
But, yeah, I'm usually months behind on all of them, actually.
And what happens is sometimes I'm doing research and looking stuff up.
Other times I'm coding.
And if I'm coding, then, yeah, I'll start listening to stuff in bunches.
So, I'll listen to three, four, five episodes at a time.
On the irregular list, I have software engineering radio, software engineering podcast, Off the
Wall, Off the Hook, both.
But those are definitely hit and miss.
I actually, I usually, I think the 2600 feed downloads both for me, but I rarely listen
off the wall, if ever.
But I know it downloads on my podcast software.
So, yeah.
And you know what I also do is I'll read the description for each one of them, and if the
topic doesn't interest me, then I just don't even bother listening to it, or I'll listen
to the introduction, the first couple of lines to see what the main topic is.
And if it's something that I'm interested in, I'll keep listening.
Otherwise, I will not.
And also, somebody had turned me on to this podcast novel called Seventh Son, and I listened
to the first chapter of that, and it sounded promising.
But, um, I just, it was already, I was already behind when I first started getting into it,
and they released chapters so freaking fast that I can't keep up.
And I think there's like 70, 75 or more episodes queued up.
You alright there?
You getting mugged, or what?
Oh, no, I'm here.
I'm, um, I'm about to do that.
You want to hear an impression of a car starting?
Listen to this.
Ahem.
Did you hear that?
Wow, that was amazing.
I know, thank you.
I'm working on that.
That was, that was, wow.
If I didn't know any better, I would think that was a real car starting.
You'd think so, but you'd be right.
Um, yeah, and you know what else?
I, I gotta say, as long as we're pissing everybody off with this episode, I'm sorry.
I've tried to listen to Twit and Dignation.
I really did.
I've, I've subscribed to them, tried to download them, see what, you know,
people liked about them, and, A, they're just so irritatingly smug,
know-it-all attitude.
I mean, I admit, I don't know jack shit when I do this show.
Um, but, I don't know, I just unsubscribed from a long time ago.
Plus, the other thing about them is that they're, what I call the dime-a-dozen podcasts.
The podcasts that do nothing but read, slash, dot, and dig, and news,
and tech news stories and stuff to me.
I know how to read, you know?
I don't, I don't need somebody to read something to me and call it a show.
I mean, they're not adding anything new or interesting to these topics.
I, I'll just go to the sites and read them.
You know, I kinda know how to read.
I, I, I can get by anyway.
Um.
I feel good.
Yeah, it's like, I'm not retarded.
I don't need somebody to read to me.
So, there's 50 or more podcasts that I've tried over the years that are all the quote-unquote
read-to-me format, and I hate all of them.
I just, I have no need for them.
I just can't stand lack of original content.
I don't know.
Just, I don't know.
I don't, I don't even know where to go from that.
I, I think the bare minimum requirement is you have to do more than Microsoft text-to-speech
that comes built into Windows XP.
Yeah.
I mean, we have a series of shows on DDP Hack Radio.
At noon, we have the, uh, mainstream tech radio, which is exactly that.
It takes the headlines from different, um, different, uh, RSS feeds, and it does a text-to-speech
and has the robot read them.
So, you get kind of a bulletin.
It's really cool.
It was more like just for the fun to see if we could do it.
But, Nick84 wrote that, and it's really cool, and I had him put them all together into one,
uh, bunch of short clips into one show, and it's really awesome.
So, uh, the other thing, real briefly, and then we're going to go into our main topic,
um, and we've only probably got about 20 minutes for the topic now, but
the telephonic craptacular, which is what he was asking about,
they're just really hard to do.
That's the long and short of it.
Any kind of clip show requires a lot of editing, a lot of saving, mixing stuff together,
editing out a lot of doc droppage and numbers and stuff along the way.
I enjoy doing them.
They're fun, but they take too long, A.
And B, we had that other show that we started called Freak Factor,
and that was kind of going to take the place.
All the content that we were going to do, all the telephonic goodness, if you will,
um, was going to go to that show.
Yes, it was pretty craptacular in and of itself,
but it had some fun moments along the way,
but the content was very redundant to the telephonic craptaculars of BINREV.
So, we kind of dropped it for that.
Now, I know what you're asking.
Where's Freak Factor?
I haven't heard of this Freak Factor of which you speak.
Well, if you want more information on Freak Factor
and when Freak Factor is going to be back up and running,
send an email to nottheory at bellsmind.net.
Lots and lots of emails.
Go to bellsmind.net and email him and let him know
that he needs to get his ass in gear and relaunch him,
and make sure you tell him that Stank sent you
so that he knows that, uh, you know,
we're looking for our Freak Factor to come back.
Now, uh, like I said, about 20 minutes or less.
Can we squeeze in a main topic here?
Are you still there?
I think we lost Savant.
So, I am going to hang up the phone and hope that he calls back.
And there he goes.
So, I'm going to hang up the phone and hope that he calls back
and stall as I introduce our main topic that we're about to get into.
And that main topic is entry control systems,
or specifically telephone entry control systems.
And if that doesn't jump out at you as clearly defined
or you know what we're talking about,
well, those are those systems that you'll find
if you live in Florida or any state for that matter.
A lot of condominium communities have them out in front of their condominiums
where you go up.
Well, that was redundant, wasn't it?
Condominiums with condominium.
If you go to an apartment complex or condominium complex
where it's a gated community
and you have that little thing with the touchstones there
that you look up the person's name,
or if you live there, you might have a code that you punch in
that will allow you to open the gate
and get inside.
And I hope that's Savant calling back in.
Yeah, we out-talked my battery there.
Okay, well, I just went ahead and told everybody
about our main topic, the telephone entry control systems.
I was given some examples about, you know,
apartment complexes and gated communities will have them
where you punch in the number
and look up the name alphabetically.
Or, again, if you live there, you might have a code
or a card or something that will get you in.
But these systems that have a little keypad usually on them,
or, and I think in bigger cities,
and maybe you can speak to this more than I can,
and the bigger cities, New York, L.A.,
some of those cities, I guess they have those
on the front door where you can buzz people in
to let them in your secured building
if you don't have an actual doorman out there.
Yes, they're popular out here in San Diego,
and I've also seen them all over the Bay Area as well.
Okay, so that, that's what,
we've talked about what they are,
so people should be able to at least visualize them now.
So, generally, you know,
let's kind of ease our way into this.
We've got about 15 minutes to burn through this.
I wish we'd left more time, but what exactly are these things?
Let's start with the basics here.
I mean, what hardware are we talking about?
How do these things work?
All right, so traditionally,
when you go up to these so-called gated communities,
outside of the main gate,
you'll often see, you know, like a turnabout
or a center divide that will section the entry gate
from the exit gate,
and there will be what appears to be
a really wide payphone, almost,
set flush into the building.
Sometimes it'll have a handset.
Sometimes it'll just be a speakerphone.
Usually it'll have a metal plate with, you know,
a, what, 9, 10, 12-button DTMF keypad,
and then a little tiny LCD screen, typically,
where you'll get to jog through a directory of sorts
to find the tenant that you're looking for,
and you dial in their extension,
and it'll ring their cell phone or their house
or somehow get them on the phone,
and you basically say,
hey, this is the FBI, let me in,
or whatever, what have you,
and typically they will press a button
more often than not, it's pound,
and that will buzz you in,
that will send a signal down
that will activate a solenoid on the gate
and get you access into the building.
Right, now, before,
let's stop for a second there
because there's some inconsistencies,
there's some things that I've heard,
anyway, that I've always kind of wondered about.
I've been told,
I have a friend who lives in a gated community,
and he was told,
she was told, actually,
that she requires,
they require her to have a landline
to use with the front gate.
Now, she didn't,
she's not a tech person,
she didn't specifically say,
well, can't I use my VoIP line,
can't I use my cell phone?
They told her that it can't be a cell phone,
that it has to be a landline.
Now, I don't know if a VoIP line would work,
or maybe even a cell phone would work,
they just don't want her to,
but that's what they told her.
Now, do you know for a fact
that it will allow you,
or some of them, anyway,
will allow you to use any type of phone?
I know for certain that some will allow,
now, your mileage may vary
depending on make and model,
manufacture, and what have you,
but case in point,
I've got a buddy up in San Francisco
who did not want,
just absolutely hated the idea
of getting a landline
specifically for the purpose
of allowing FedEx into his building
when he ordered stuff off of Fleabay.
So he called me,
Josh, what are we going to do?
You know, I need to set this up.
You know, he doesn't know me as Sivan,
he knows me as Josh.
And I said, well,
so what's the scoop there?
They won't let you use a cell phone?
And his cell phone was in the area code
of San Diego
because that's where he came from.
So I suggested,
well, have you thought about
getting a voice over IP
directed and word dial number,
a DID?
Right.
And he's like, well, no,
what's the deal with that?
And I explained to him,
you know,
Vitality.net
and SixTel
and some other providers
will give you
a local phone number.
Now,
as my understanding,
the way that they set up
these entry systems
is they're not allowed
to dial long distance,
which would make sense
as to why they would need
a POTS line.
You know,
it would be a generic way
of saying,
we're not going to pay
long distance for your ass.
And the one way to guarantee that
is that you have a landline.
Right.
But what we ended up doing
was on the Vitality.net
subscriber page,
you could set up
a number that it would forward to.
And he just forwarded it
straight to his cell phone
and for enough,
when FedEx rolls around,
they hit directory,
it rings in his pocket
to his 619 number
via his 415 DID.
He hits the pound button,
Bob's your uncle,
lets you in.
So I wonder if programmatically
in the hardware,
you can,
I hadn't thought about
the long distance idea there.
I wonder if you can
programmatically restrict it
to a certain area code.
Well,
I'm wondering if,
now I don't have specific numbers
to back this up,
but I'm wondering if the thing is
that you can only use
7-digit dialing
in most of these systems
and not 10-digit dialing.
Uh-huh.
So,
a 415 number
when dialed
from a 415 extension
would in fact
only be 7-digit dialing,
so it wouldn't be an issue.
And I'm trying to think
of any examples
where it would be necessary
to have the extra digits
or where somebody
could have a valid reason
to have a different area code.
I mean,
even if you're in a city
that's,
you know,
like New York City
that's split
amongst several
different area codes,
we're talking about
one confined building.
You're not going to have
multiple area codes
inside the same building,
not for your landlines
or not.
Right.
I mean,
there might be
the occasional
random case
where a complex
spills over
on the two sides
of an area code,
but I would assume
that they would just
have to pick
one or the other.
Right.
Right, exactly.
Because we're not
talking complex systems.
I mean,
they have the ability
to be augmented
by a PBX system
that might be able
to have some smarts
on the back end,
and that might be
a way that you would
work around
that particular gotcha,
but I would say
by and large
that they're pretty,
I don't want to say
dumb in terms
of technology,
but they're not
very intelligent systems.
Well,
these are basically
just large printed
PCB boards,
right?
These are big circuit boards
that are hardwired
to do certain things.
Right.
Is that correct?
Yes,
they are hardwired,
in fact,
over the,
they've got,
in some cases,
actual ring and tip
terminations
to the system themselves.
Okay,
my battery is
on its way out.
I think I'm turning
my laptop back on
to sort of provide
some extra juice,
but I might lose you.
But one thing
that's really interesting
that I found
on a couple models
of these telephonic
entry systems
is that since they are,
in fact,
connected to the
public telephone system,
in some cases,
if you have access
to the administrator's panel,
you can turn in,
you can turn on these phones
and make calls
to the outside network.
So if you've got
some kung fu
regarding these systems,
like you download
the PDF of the system
off the support site,
you could actually
call people
outside of the complex
for free,
conceivably.
So if you could
somehow seize the trunk,
that's probably
the wrong terminology,
but if you could
somehow seize this thing
and get you a,
get a dial tone
and dial out somehow,
you know,
I think it'd be interesting
to see if I could use
a tone dialer
through that speaker
somehow.
Now,
given what we know
about my friend's ability
to unlock the gate
from his cell phone
and the way
in-band signaling works,
I'd be inclined
to believe
that the system
would not be smart
enough to know
which side
of the communication
that that tone
came from.
So it's conceivable
to think that
if you had your cell phone
on you,
if it had a pretty
decent speaker phone,
that you could
hold it up
to the speaker phone
and start button mashing
until you find
the right combination
because as far
as I know,
they don't have
account lockouts
like a normal
password system would
or if you dial
the incorrect password
X number of times,
it'll lock you out.
Like,
quite literally
in this sense,
it would send you
from getting access
to the phone
or to the community.
So if anybody
out there
has access
to one of these systems
and you know
a couple people
in the IRC channel
said that they did
but weren't able
to help me last night
when I was talking
to them,
try it out
and report back
to your findings
because I'm inclined
to believe
that it's possible.
Yeah,
I would think so
and I think
that would make
some good footage.
That'd be a good
little Hack TV segment
there if you can
film something like that.
Absolutely.
Well,
listen,
we've only got
maybe 10 minutes
of show left
so hopefully
your battery
will last
a few more minutes.
Yeah,
we're good to go.
My laptop's on
and providing
juice over USB.
Okay.
Well,
some of the other things
if you can,
you know,
in the admin function
of this,
there's a lot of
other interesting
things out there.
First of all,
the funniest thing is
and I'll go ahead
and pose this
as a question to you.
This is a set-up question.
Okay.
What kind of protection
do these things have
to prevent you
from getting
to the administration panel?
Well,
glad you asked.
I thought you'd
never get to it.
Now,
in the particular model
that we were looking at
which is by a company
called Violent Night,
K-N-I-G-H-T,
they had an option
where a lot like
some of the similar
Trin and Tran-X-ATMs
that you may have
heard so much about.
If you hold down
the star button
and let it go
and press
one through eight,
one-digit number
for the admin function code,
you are presented
with a password prompt
for a six-digit number.
And wouldn't you know it,
the password is set
by default
to one,
two,
three,
four,
five,
six.
Oh,
I would have
never guessed that.
I know,
it's the same combination
I have in my luggage.
Man,
that is the same pin
that I have
on my credit cards
and my voicemail box.
Right.
Wow,
what a small world.
once you gain access
to this administrative function,
you can add users
to the gated community,
you can remove users
from the gated community,
you can redirect
someone else's call
to your own cell phone,
which might be
an interesting way
to snoop on people.
One of the funny things
that I saw on there
that I just can't
for the life of me
figure out,
well actually,
there's two of them
that I can't quite figure out.
One of them is
very low level,
it's to turn the speaker
on or off.
Well,
why or when would you
ever want the speaker off?
That defeats the point
of the equipment.
And B,
for some reason,
there is an option
to allow rotary dialing.
By default,
it's off,
but what the fuck?
Rotary dialing?
Are you kidding me?
Right.
What year is this?
How,
yeah,
how does that even,
I mean,
somebody in the apartment
up there still has
a rotary phone
and that's what that's for?
I mean,
wow.
What's most interesting,
too,
about this particular model
that we're looking at
by Silent Night
is that if you turn on
rotary dialing,
you disable DTMF dialing.
Yeah.
So,
effectively,
this would only be useful
in a community
that only has rotary phones.
Right.
Not mix and match.
I mean,
you're not adding support
for rotary phones.
You're choosing one
or the other.
And the console itself,
it's not like you have
an option to put on
a rotary wheel
in the front of the building
to dial your way in.
It's a DTMF touchpad
on the front.
See,
that would discourage people.
You should have like a giant,
like something you would see
on fucking The Price is Right,
a giant dial tone
and you have to spin the number
to get into the building.
I think people would be like,
you know what?
I'd be like,
you know what,
dude,
he's on the ninth floor
and I'm just too lazy
to spin that fucking wheel
right now,
so.
Yeah.
I'm just going to.
He's not getting his package.
Yeah,
God forbid somebody's up
in room number 9999.
Can you imagine
the pizza guy
at that building?
They're like,
shit.
Dude,
if you wanted to mess with him,
that's the number
you'd always spoof.
Yeah,
my address is 9999.
Oh,
hell,
evil.
I'm on the 9172.
Damn it.
Get the stepladder out.
Well,
and one of the other options
on here that I think
you said earlier
is you can
hook up a PBX
to the system
on the back end
and you can through
the menu
then dial out
and access that PBX system
through this.
Now,
I don't know why
you would really,
I guess you could set up
some things to do that,
but assuming you don't have
control over the PBX itself,
maybe if you had a bunch
of buildings running off
one PBX,
it might be useful.
Right.
Which,
you know,
in and of itself,
adding that additional
layer of complexity
also introduces the fact
that there might be
some other hacks
that you could do
with the PBX system
and perhaps even then
gain access
to the outward dial.
Yeah,
and on here
it says PBX access number,
which is the one
or two digit number
needed to access
the PBX system.
The system will dial
the number program
for PBX access.
Now,
if you can change
that number
to point to your own PBX,
then you could totally
own the box
big time.
Absolutely,
and with Asterisk,
it wouldn't be that hard
to create some sort
of pass through
that would then
redial the correct
system to get back
into their internal
PBX system
so you could effectively
man in the middle
their telephone system
and their gated access
community.
Yeah,
and you know what,
if you could somehow,
as long as you
recreate it,
if you really wanted
to be sneaky,
I guess,
if you recreated
or got the list
of people
and their information
and copied it over,
it would be seamless
and you could hijack
it and people
might not even know
the difference
if you did it right
and did it smoothly.
Absolutely,
if you could record
every piece of communication
that goes on
through anywhere
in the building,
I could see how
that might be advantageous
if you were a private
investigator
or a jealous boyfriend
concerned about
what your lady is doing
while you're gone
at work.
There's some implications
in there.
Well,
and plus you'd get
a list of everybody's
phone numbers,
whatever it's dialing
to get to them,
so you could get
a list of people,
whether they're listed,
unlisted,
private,
cell phones,
whatever.
Right.
So that's kind of
dangerous.
Yeah,
a fun Google hack
that you can use
to find more
of these systems
that I checked out
last night
was telephone
entry system support
and then you could
just throw PDF in there
and just harvest
those results
and you'll have
tons of manuals
on how to actually
gain access
to most of your systems.
Yeah,
and then,
you know,
and kind of
using Google hacking
techniques,
this is kind of
one of those
good ones
that's a borderline
crossing into
Google mining
and it always
bugs me
when people
don't know
the difference
but you then
gather all those
books together,
all those PDFs
that you can get
and kind of
parse through them
all quickly
and make a spreadsheet
that says
here's the model number
of the manufacturer,
here's the default pin.
Actually mine
that data
for some useful
information
and come up
with a spreadsheet
that,
you know,
put it in the forums
or have it published
in a zine somewhere
or something like that.
That's cool,
useful information.
Absolutely.
Especially,
I mean,
we're starting to see
these past couple
of years
of proliferation,
excuse me,
of people
finding these
useful information
about hardware
that otherwise
wouldn't be
considered all that
interesting.
That,
you know,
ultimately
lots of people
mining the ATM
machines
that I would add
also have the same
default passwords
as the telephone
access system.
you know,
the Uber Leeds
23456.
I wouldn't be surprised
if that was an
industry standard
amongst entry
systems either.
Right.
Well,
what other kind
of cool stuff
did you see on here?
What else kind
of jumps out
at you?
Well,
some of these
systems actually
have dial-up
modems built into
them and the
sites that
manufacture these
things also offer
software that you
can use,
you can hook up
your computer to,
but you don't
need to be on
site.
If you were able
to either have
a friend inside
the complex and
you can see what
number comes up
when they called
you to let
somebody in,
or if you were
able to ascertain
this through other
means,
you could in
theory remotely
hack in and
dial-up,
you know,
the old school
way if people
are still using
modems and would
be able to gain
the same information.
Of course,
the ones that
I've seen,
I've only seen
a couple,
they use proprietary
dial-up software
so you wouldn't
just be able to
necessarily load up
minicom or
hyperterminal and
connect,
but if you did
your homework and
found out who
manufactured it
in the support
site,
you'd be able to
download the
software to do
it from anywhere.
You know,
I was kind of
distracted here,
I'm looking at
this 4.2.6 and
this particular
model here is
kind of interesting,
it's operating the
telephone,
you can make the
control panel act as
a normal phone,
press star 5,
then put in the
access code,
whatever it is,
hopefully it's not
1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
6,
enter the phone
number you wish
to call and
press star and
you can actually,
see that's a cool
visual to me.
How cool would that
be and how,
I mean,
if you were in a
car with some
people and you
did that,
they would look at
you like you were
just the ghost in
the machine if you
were able to pull up
to one of these
things and they can
out-dial to their
cell phone in the
back seat or
something.
It'd be great if
you ordered pizza to
the console in
the front of the
building.
Oh, that would be
so cool.
Yeah, I'm at
apartment zero,
1, 2, 3,
evergreen terrace.
Yeah, just pull up
to the gate.
Yeah, just deliver
to the gate,
I'll be out there.
Yeah, I'm in a
red sedan.
Yeah, I got my
blinkers on.
License plate number.
Or if you were to
somehow go even
further and hook up
like the coupler to
the speaker phone and
then dial in to the
modem itself over
the other line or
something, I don't
know.
There's a lot of
unique possibilities
and I think that
this has been a
topic that's probably
mostly overlooked by
most people.
Yeah, see this kind
of stuff is just
fun, hardcore,
brute force kind of
hacking, go up and
just punch numbers and
see what you can come
up with.
That's fun and that's
one way to do it,
but go out there and
do a little Google
mining, Google
searching and come up
with some interesting
stuff.
Now, one other thing
that catches my
here that's worth
throwing out and
we're running out of
time here is there
is an error message
that will come up.
It looks like it's
saying, and I guess
this is obviously the
fault, four consecutive
invalid access or user
codes and it will pop
up with a code tamper
message.
And I don't know if
that will lock the
box out temporarily or
permanently, so keep
that in mind if you're
going to mess around
too much.
It looks like it will
do that.
That's interesting.
I hadn't seen that.
Yeah, that's
interesting.
Systems can have up
to a thousand users.
Now, a lot of this
stuff is dependent on
which model, etc., so
we probably shouldn't
focus too much.
Is there anything else
on here before I think
we're going to have to
wrap up the show here?
Is there anything else
that we want to mention
before we move on?
One last thing is that
most of these models
have an option for
keyless entry of the
tenants that actually
use those systems.
They have a four-digit
code or a PIN number
that you can put in
that will allow you to
gain access to the
community without
actually having to
call anybody.
And in this particular
model, and probably
others like it, there's
a default PIN of
1111.
So if you just
button mash one a
couple times, you'll
probably get right into
the gate.
Because everything, and
I mean everything, is
always on default.
It's always on default.
All right.
Well, and you know
what else?
Kind of because we were
chatting about this
earlier, it's worth
mentioning that these
systems are like a big,
secure, strong box.
So as far as physical
attacks or physical
brute forcing, or if
you think you're going
to cut any wires or
anything like that,
these things are
locked down pretty hard.
I mean, there's got to
be a wire coming in and
out of it.
Some wires coming in and
out of these things,
obviously.
But generally, they're
pretty secure.
Maybe on some of the
real old models that
are half-assed stuck to
a wall in an old
apartment building, they
might come off easily, or
you might be able to see
the wires or access the
motherboard or the
circuit board itself.
But generally speaking,
the more modern ones, the
newer ones, are locked
down pretty tight.
You know what?
I was just thinking
that would be pretty
late to use something
like Beav's EyeWars
and just park outside of
a building late at night
with your modem speaker
coupled out to a
remote headphone or
something.
And like the Saint or
something, just have it
dial through all possible
combinations of remote
entry until you gain
access, like an auto
safe record.
Well, and imagine, if you
will, how fucking cool would
this be that you did that
and then you pulled off to
go get some pizza or
something, and you pass that
cop car that you saw
earlier, and they go
swatting a fucking entry
system that was dialing
911.
Dude, how fucking...
That would not be cool,
but it would be funny.
I mean, it would be funny.
We're not encouraging you
to do so, but...
Abusing 911 is definitely
not cool.
However, it's a funny idea
to talk about, not to
actually do.
Yeah, definitely.
Talk about it.
Don't do it.
Oh, shit.
That would be funny,
though.
All right.
Well, let's close out the
show this week.
Episode 197 is in the
books.
Let's see.
Closing.
Let's do some shouts
here.
I'll give shouts to the
BR813 meeting, the
Tampa BinRev meeting.
Shouts to everybody out
there.
Again, shouts to Elonka
for being on NOVA.
Very cool episode.
My buddy, I've been
emailing and chatting with
her lately, back and
forth.
She's unfortunately not
going to make it to
DEFCON.
She actually has a
commitment to...
She's actually presenting
at a different conference
somewhere, so she's not
going to make it, so
that's too bad.
Ah, and I know you'll
back me up on this one,
to Black Ratchet and to
DeBeave for...
Their newly published
book, Asterisk Hacks by
Singres Publishing.
Go buy it.
It's on store shelves
right now.
Asterisk Hacks by
Singres Publishing.
Black Ratchet,
congratulations on that.
That is insanely cool,
and boy, what a lot of
hard work.
Seriously, buddy.
Good job on that one,
both of you.
I was also going to
give shouts to DeBeave and
also the Telefree crew for
the work that they did on...
Well, all the work that
they do on the Telefree
PBS, the phone system,
and on iWar, and the
San Diego Police Department
for being pretty cool about
my cat accidentally
dialing 911 three times in
a row.
Shouts to the cat, the
six-fingered cat.
Shouts to the cat.
Shouts to Philip.
Philip, the six-fingered
cat.
Oh, and I feel bad.
I meant to contact these
guys before it happened,
but shouts to the
Linux Link Tech Show,
to everybody over at
TLLTS, the Linux Link
Tech Show, 200 episodes.
They beat us to 200
episodes.
Congratulations, guys.
Great work over the years.
200 episodes of a
fantastic show, so big
shouts out to them.
You can check them out on
ddphackradio.org,
streaming live every week.
Again, that's probably them
that left the mic on
before, but get back to me
and let me know, guys.
If that was one of you,
I'm curious.
A reminder, a reminder,
DEFCON meetup.
We talked about it
earlier.
Registration desk at the
Riviera, 3.30 p.m.
We're going to start
walking to the malls at
3.45, so get there right
at 3.30 to 3.45 range.
If you miss the group,
yeah, you can meet us up
at the mall.
We'll be up there for a
couple hours if you know
where it's at and you can't
get away at 3.30 or you
want to watch the rest of
the talk you're in and come
up at 4 or whatever, we'll
be up there, so you're
welcome to obviously join,
but if you want to walk up
there with the group, that's
when we're going to be
leaving and get back at
6.
We'll have the t-shirts,
presentation, etc, etc.
Hosting, hosting for
Binary Revolution Radio and
all of our affiliated DDP
projects is provided by
caro.net.
Check them out for your
hosting needs.
Site of the week this week,
I have tinyurl for you.
It is tinyurl7v, as in
Victor, Q as in quince, I
don't know.
Quince.
Oh yeah, whatever the hell
that Klingon word was.
7v...
What the hell, you got
phlegm or something?
Well, I'm in my car and I
don't know what the fuck
you got.
7vqdl, as in download,
vqdl, 7vqdl.
Then that is a tinyurl that
goes to Nova Science now,
which, oops, I accidentally
copied over in my show notes
wrong, but that'll take you to
pbs.org, all black slash
blah blah blah science now
page.
So, check that out.
And by the way, we're never
going to goat see you with a
tinyurl on this show, so
you're safe with that.
However, if you're ever in
doubt, don't forget tinyurl has
a preview.
I think it's preview.tinyurl.com
and then the actual code should
show you what it is before you
go there.
So, very useful.
I use that a lot.
Email, feedback of any kind,
radio at binrev.com.
I'm sure we're going to get a
lot of it this episode.
Our closing music this week
is Chronomicon,
Chromonicon,
yeah, whatever.
Subscription Box is the name
of the track, I think.
I don't think I've used this
before.
Once again, this was land on
my hard drive, so if I've
reused it, it's worth it.
It's a good track.
And that is it.
Samant, thank you, my friend,
for being on the show, and my
apologies for rushing us
through this.
I wish we, when we do it,
every three weeks we have so
much email to go through that
we don't give as much time to
the main topic as we want to,
but I think we got through it
pretty well.
I think it was a good show
this week.
And we will see everybody
else.
It will probably be after
DEFCON in a couple weeks,
but it will be Same Hack
Time.
Same Hack Channel.
Quackar!
Quack!
quack!
Quack!
Thank you.