This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
and a fag pwned.
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.
I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable.
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.
In a flash, I'll screw you on burning Dreamcast. You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle.
Our exchange you could never stifle. In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.
Your CG, it's all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.
You feel that rattling your bones? When I tell you we just hacked out Jones.
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the craters.
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs.
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 198, inching ever closer to the big 200, big milestone episode coming up.
But, in the meantime, we are going to continue bringing you what we like to think is good episodes of mixed, assorted content.
And joining me in that endeavor this week is our frequent co-host, Savant.
Welcome to the show, my friend.
Oh, yeah.
We got a lot of good jokes at my expense on my Kool-Aid infatuation.
I still laugh at Cherry Anthrax, so I think that was the funniest part for me.
But, today we are going to do a DEFCON 15 wrap-up episode.
A couple weeks departed, I guess, because I actually stayed in Las Vegas for an extra nine, well, for a total of nine days.
So, I stayed an extra six or seven days afterwards.
So, I've only been back for a week, a little less than a week.
So, we're going to do a little DEFCON 15 wrap-up later.
So, let's see what other housekeeping we need to get out of the way here before we get started.
First big thing, of course, is that our new BINREV T-shirts are now available.
The tiny URL to that is 2...
Wow, what a terrible...
Okay, 2 the number.
That's number 2.
T-O-F-8-8.
So, 2TOF88 is the tiny URL to the page to order.
Or, you can just go to forums.binrev.com and you'll see pinned at the top of the General Hacking Forward the link to it as well.
So, the two shirts that we basically debuted at our local BINREV meetings here in Florida and then took them first mass availability, if you want to call it that, was at DEFCON.
So, at the DEFCON BINREV meeting, which had a good, I would say, 30 people or so there.
At least 20, because in my row of tables, there were like 4 people per table and there were at least 5 tables deep.
So, there's at least 20 just on my row of tables.
So, I would say there's probably 30, 30 to 40 that actually came to the meeting, would you think?
Yeah, I think so.
But remember, you were not selling the shirts at DEFCON.
Right, I was not, not selling, I mean, I was, yeah, I was not selling the shirts because that would be wrong because they charge vendors.
So, I was, yeah, I was asked not to not sell shirts.
Wait a minute, what?
Yeah, they charge, I believe it's 300 bucks, not positive of that.
I think they probably charge whatever they feel like to certain vendors, get breaks or something.
But, I think they charge 300 bucks for a vendor booth at DEFCON.
So, they don't want people in there selling things off of their shoulder.
So, I was asked if I was selling things off the shoulder and I said, of course I'm not.
So, I was asked to not sell them somewhere else.
So, I was not selling BINREV t-shirts in the vendor area.
I was, however, giving them away to some of our forum members who we've known for a long time and who just totally by coincidence happened to owe me $15.
That was just, that was completely, what a weird coincidence that everybody who wanted the shirts.
It just happened then.
Yeah, it's exactly, it's funny how things work out that way.
So, anyway.
That's all.
So, we are finally putting up some shirts, you know, it's something I've been meaning to do for a while.
But, we're kind of, actually, I don't want to turn this into off the hook or anything.
I think T-Oxy made that joke to me about, you know, coming on the air and begging for money and trying to do fundraising and PBS and off the hook begathons and all that good stuff.
But, we're not going to go that far, but I will say that if you buy the shirts, which are available at the aforementioned URL, that's going to help fund some other upcoming big projects that we have.
You know, I don't want to beg for money for nothing.
I'd like to try to give people something for their money.
So, if you want to help support BINREV and some of the future endeavors, please order some shirts and anything else we might be rolling out soon.
I've got some other things in the pipeline.
Hey, I have a cool story about the t-shirts, actually, real quick.
Oh, no, not that story, is it?
At work, we do video surveillance, hardware, and software testing.
And, when I wear my orange shirt to work, the orange Inmate 31337 shirt, if you look on the screen to work, it, like, freaks out the hardware.
The cameras just panic when they see that bright orange color that causes crazy distortion and, you know, dragging across the screen and artifacting.
And so, the joke is, is that if we ever wanted to rob a bank that has these certain type of cameras, we'd just all wear these bright orange shirts and we'd be completely invisible.
Dude, now, I so, so totally want to see what that video looks like now.
All right, I'll have to see if I can sneak out some screenshots, even though that would be a blatant violation of company policy.
Well, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be from there.
We can find another place that has the same model camera.
Actually, let's test it and see if it works on other types of cameras as well.
That is true.
Very cool.
Now, I didn't, I had no idea.
That's really cool.
I mean, I mean, I knew that all along.
It was part of my master hack the planet plan.
Leap stealth cotton technology.
And, also part of the plan is the one part on the shirt that would stand out, the inmate number 31337.
Well, they all say that, so they can't isolate it down to one inmate number like the DOC.
You know, we're not, we should have assigned random numbers on every shirt.
That might have been kind of cool too, but t-shirt printing doesn't.
It's not a proud affair.
Yeah, it doesn't quite work that way.
What else in housekeeping?
Seal.
I've got to give congratulations to Seal, our newest DDP member.
Long overdue, actually.
Seal's been the forum's admin for a long, long time.
And, probably this has been a long time coming as well, but we finally made it official.
So, welcome him on to the team.
Big up, buddy.
And, did we want to take a, well, did you have any other housekeeping first?
And, still, I'll pass this over to you, because did we want to talk about the Joy Bubbles news that came out this past week?
Yeah, since we, since the last episode of BinRev, I believe it was since 197, legendary phone freak Joe Joy Bubbles and Gretia passed away through mysterious circumstances.
And, it was so mysterious, in fact, that for a while people were having a hard time confirming it, and it just was written off to be a vicious rumor.
But, no, it's the bad truth that, unfortunately, he's passed away recently.
Wow.
You know, it's kind of funny, my girl was asking me, you know, if you could meet any hacker, phone freak, or whomever, you know, who would it be?
And, I was like, well, you know, are we talking still alive, you know, not like Albert Einstein or something like that?
And, she said, yeah, alive.
And, I said, well, I mean, I've met quite a few of my quote-unquote idols that I had growing up, but really the only one I could think of was Joy Bubbles.
And, I was like, yeah, he's the last one that's still alive that I'd really like to meet.
And, then, lo and behold, I go to work the very next day, and Gene Eric told me, yeah, he passed away yesterday.
Wow.
It was, yeah, you know, I, so, if Stephen Hawking dropped dead within the next week, that has nothing to do with me.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I would.
He was the other one, I said.
Yeah, I would, I would love to meet Hawking, too, but, I mean, where am I going to cross paths?
He's not going to be a DEFCON, I don't think.
Like, although, maybe we could get him to come to DEFCON.
How late would that be?
That'd be pretty late.
I would pay for his ticket, gladly, to get him to DEFCON.
Maybe we could have him make a guest appearance on one of the radio shows.
Good evening.
Hello.
Welcome to the universe.
How would anybody know if it was the real him?
Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
Like, how do we know that it's really him anyway?
I mean, we just see a guy in a wheelchair clicking a button.
I mean.
It's like Wizard of Oz type shit.
It's the guy who's on the screen with a microphone.
We could have MC Hawking on here.
Maybe we could get MC Hawking to do an episode.
That's more reasonable.
I think I could pull that one off, maybe.
I know some friends of some friends that might be able to pull that one off.
But, well, I guess on that sad nose, we will probably translate into the email for a pseudo moment of silence.
But I guess let's just move into some email and try to keep the show on a brighter note.
Okay.
And our first email this week.
We got quite a few, obviously, since it's so much time between episodes these days.
Well, actually, before I go to the individual emails, we did get an email from the guys over at the Linux Link Tech show.
And it does, as I suspected, it was their stream, the mystery stream that was playing on DDP Hack Radio that people were hearing a couple weeks ago.
That was the Linux Link Tech show.
I kind of had a feeling because they do stream live, and it was about that time frame.
So, I still think it would be funny.
I'd like to know if anybody captured any of that stream so we can go through it and see if there's any good stuff in there, anything juicy.
You know, I'd love to catch Dan singing along to American Idol or watching Prawn or something like that.
I think that might be pretty funny, something of that ilk, if you will.
So, and again, I think I said this last week, too, but congratulations on them for passing 200 episodes.
That's very, very cool, and that is a big accomplishment that we're hoping to pull off ourselves in a couple more episodes.
But let's move on to some email here.
First email this week comes from Aethon.
Aethon.
Aethon?
Aethon.
That's why I'm going with Aethon.
Aethon says,
Hi, I was just listening to BinRevRadio197, and you guys made a curious statement that there is no reason for one building to have multiple area codes in it for landlines.
This is not true in areas that have overlay plans.
For instance, the Denver Metro area has both the 303 and 720 area codes fully overlapped, and landlines require that you do dial 10 digits for every call, even local.
I know that other areas also have overlay plans, which would mean that one building having multiple area codes for landlines would not be unheard of and likely common for apartment complexes.
Now, you probably can speak a little bit more intelligently about this to me, so let me kind of respond to this first, and you tell me if I go wrong here or where I go wrong.
Because I also, I live down in Fort Lauderdale, Miami area, and we had 10-digit mandatory dialing as well, and that's all well and good that they have full overlay in these certain areas.
Of course, Fort Lauderdale, I think, was 9-5-4-8, and Miami was 3-0-5, but I can tell you I have never seen a complex and mixed and matched NPAs, even though technically it may be possible.
I don't think we ever said it was not possible.
I think we said that it was not likely, and I still say this.
In a real-world scenario, I don't see how this could logically work out to happen, not that it technically can't happen, but logically.
If somebody has a specific example, I'd like to hear about it, especially, we all know, with number portability, of course, that's really more for cell phones, I guess, but not so much with VoIP lines.
I ported my VoIP line around a few different places and still have a very out-of-place area code.
So anything is possible from the technical standpoint, but here's my – I'll throw this over to you.
The phone company and the traditional landlines, they set up their switches, their mini-computer out at the – what do they call it?
What do they call the box?
No, yeah, the little box out at the entrance of the neighborhood or something like that, the gray box out there that has all the switching and stuff for your particular neighborhood,
little system that routes all the phone calls, obviously.
Well –
I know what you're talking about, but I know if I try and come up with a name, I'll invariably be wrong like I always am.
I wish –
Even strong or black rats, you're going to slap me in the face.
Yeah, and I know I could call zero dB and he'd know right off the hand, but oh well.
Anyway, that box is where all that equipment is held, and of course I admit I'm not a phone guy here,
but when apartments and housing complexes and whatnot are built, the phone company comes out and lays that infrastructure
and populates that box based on the number of houses in the area and expandability for the potential
or at least an estimate or a guess of how many – how much growth there might be, how many new houses might be added
and what kind of capacity that they're going to need for that area.
So that's all set up and installed there when these neighborhoods expand and are built.
Well, logically that means they're going to assign a large – let's say they build an apartment building,
they start populating it.
They're immediately going to start assigning from one NPA and one NXX,
and they're going to start assigning them, maybe not from the same NXX, but from the same NPA,
and start assigning those out there.
Now, if they run out, I guess it is technically possible – like let's say the capacity of the switch is reached
and they actually have to send a technician out there to add new cards in there, to add more capacity.
Even if they do that, technically – and correct me if I'm wrong here – technically, I guess they could program it
with a different NPA altogether.
You know, if there's full overlay – I think – what was this example?
303 and 720.
Technically, they could program that new switch to use the other one, but I just don't see that happen in practice.
It's not like they've run out of, let's say, 303, for example.
If they've got 303s left and they send somebody to the general 303 area where the building is already using 303 numbers,
I just don't think that they, in practicality, will assign a completely different area code.
I just don't think that's what they do unless they have no other choice, and that just seems pretty rare to me.
Well, I think that as they start to plan for other expansion – well, for example, my grandparents lived in 619 for the longest time while I was growing up.
619 is the predominant, you know, San Diego proper area code.
And sometime – God, I want to say when I was like 10 or 12 – they ended up switching over to 858 all of a sudden.
And I remember trying to reach my grandma and her other phone number using 7-digit dialing, having 7-brand-a-person answer the phone.
And I think that's when I first started figuring out that, you know, it wasn't all just one giant numbering system.
So, I mean, it can, it does happen, where they will take one, you know, a ring and tip pair will, you know,
all over the same physical trunk line going back to the same central office,
depending on how the numbering plan is going to be shifted around, a plan for, you know, further expansion,
especially in large cities like San Diego or, you know, parts of Florida.
You know, it does happen.
And since phone switches are nowadays, you know, just big computers, it's usually a simple matter of reprogramming the tables.
Yes, certainly, technically.
And, you know, actually, you did mention something that made me think there.
You know, it's – they may come in and assign a new area code or try to adjust or move area codes based on population increasing.
And they may assign the new area code to new people moving into a complex or building or a community.
And let the old ones slowly grandfather their way out.
They'll keep them and hang on to them, but they'll just wait for the cycle to process out.
I guess that is a very realistic possibility.
I did not think of that at all.
Or even new businesses as they're constructed.
You know, you'll have large areas of undeveloped land that will all be within a bulk of an area.
And then you've got, you know, the people fringe of the area codes, like on the edge of 619.
Or, you know, towards the top two-thirds of the numbering map.
Then I could see those things will eventually get shifted over.
I mean, I guess it's sort of akin to an IRC net split where, you know, servers will just desync to the point where it will be two completely different servers.
How big of a geek does that make us for comparing this to an IRC net split?
I know.
The weird part about it is that I may be slightly more authoritative to talk on this subject, but only marginally slow.
And you know you're going to get a shitload of emails for episode 199 and 200.
People are talking so much shit about how little I actually know about the matter.
My world and welcome to it.
Yeah, I have a feeling like Blackrash is going to have a stern finger shaking for me on Wednesday morning.
Oh, well.
Or tomorrow morning, as it were.
Well, thank you, Atheon, Aethon, Aethon, Aethon.
I'm just going to say Aethon.
Thank you, Aethon, for the email.
Very, very interesting topic there.
I guess there are some possibilities that I maybe didn't see last week or last episode, I should say.
So thank you for pointing that out.
There are some, but I still say it's very rare.
I still think that's very rare, especially in the same building.
In the same building, ah, that's, it seems like to me that's...
I find it hard to believe.
I mean, I would think that, I mean, I'm sure it happens, but I would think that for the most part, if a building was going to be, if it was on the edge where they were going to shift area codes, that they would just go ahead and do the whole building.
Yeah, have you ever heard any stories of someone being told, we are changing all the numbers in your building or we're forcing you to change the number?
I mean, can they, I don't know if they can legally do that.
I've never heard a story like that before.
Well, I mean, since the early 90s when Grammy had, uh, where she hit it up to the 858s.
But, I mean, even then, it was so long ago that I don't even recall the circumstance or even know if I was old enough to care.
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to remember if I've, yeah, I can't think of any examples, but, anyway, good, good, uh, email there.
Thank you for that.
Uh, next email comes from Enigma Entity, or E2, we're going to call him E2.
Hey there, Stank Dog.
Just wanted to say hello and that the site radio show rocks.
A quick little bit of background for you is I accidentally stumbled across one of the MP3s from a HOPE conference.
I heard your MP3 and the show that you did while there and got a bit interested.
Um, that, yeah, there's been three or four, so I'm not sure which one you heard.
But, anyway, I came to the site and downloaded all of the MP3s.
I believe that you were on episode 189, maybe.
Okay, well, 198 as of this one, so we'll chalk that up to dyslexia.
Uh, anyway, I wanted to listen to all of them in a row.
Good luck with that.
It's going to take you a while.
And I'm currently on episode 103, but I will finish that tonight.
I am still new to this side of the site and don't want to dig up old threads if they are there regarding feedback on old episodes.
I have noticed that you usually have new content every week and don't normally revisit topics that you have done.
My question for you is this.
If I have a little bit of feedback from some of your episodes, or a lot,
usually just a link or more resources that you've worked well, that have worked well for me in the past,
i.e., at the end of BR 103, you were talking about CMS, content management systems,
and I would have mentioned opensourcecms.com, that is, working demos of fresh installs, refreshed every two hours.
What should I do with that feedback?
Score one for run-on sentences.
Yes, you get a point for that.
I don't want to flood you with crap or anything, and I just wanted to know what your preference is.
Should I just see if there is an appropriate thread in the forum, compile them all into a novel,
and send them once I am caught up, or just forget about it unless it is brought up.
All right, well, E2, here's how that works.
I don't have a problem with you thread digging under the Hacker Media section.
Dig up the thread that's appropriate to the episode of BinRev Radio that you're talking about.
I think that's more organized, and I don't mind thread digging if you're actually adding content.
It's people that dig up threads for no damn good reason just because they think it's funny or whatever,
or something that's old and tired.
Well, add a pack of lull on the end of it or something.
Yeah, I agree.
Me too.
That sort of thing.
Yeah, four years ago, me too, huh, buddy?
Yeah, it was the last fucking horse to cross the finish line.
Yeah.
Was there any progress on this?
Question, question, question, question.
It's four years old!
No, there's no progress.
That's why it's dead.
The technology is obsolete.
Hey, thanks, bye.
Exactly, exactly.
So, secondly, as far as on the radio show, if you send something in on the radio show,
you know, I do screen all the emails, and I read the ones that I think are important or can add to the show,
and if I think, you know, what you sent isn't too old or outdated or no good,
then I just won't read it on the show.
That kind of sucks for you because if you go to the trouble of writing it all out,
and then I don't use it, then you get pissed.
So, I would say go in the forums, bring it up, or just start a new thread.
Don't even reference BinRevRadio.
I mean, I'm glad that we got you thinking and brought up the topic.
You can bring it up in just a normal thread.
Say, hey, in the links section, here's a cool opensourcecms.com site that has fresh working demos of content management systems.
You know, you can always just put that kind of stuff in the forums without referencing BRR as well.
So, finally, if it's way, you know, we do not, you're correct in that we don't rehash topics as far as the main show topic.
We try not to.
There's a couple exceptions.
We've done, you know, Java part one and two.
If there's a big topic that we can't fit in one episode, we will stretch it out.
But, yeah, we try to keep each main topic different each week and kind of keep it fresh and new.
But, yes, in subsequent episodes of the radio show, we'll readdress topics in terms of follow-up emails from people.
So, even though you heard that in episode 103, I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure that in, if not that episode, which you say we didn't,
in one of the follow-up episodes, we did mention opensourcecms.com.
Boy, I'm plugging the hell out of them tonight.
That's like four or five mentions.
opensourcecms.com.
Try it today.
Ta-ting.
I'm pretty sure we mentioned that somewhere.
Somebody brought it in the follow-up email.
So, just because you didn't hear it 103, before you go typing up the novel or sending it in or whatever,
you might want to listen to 104 or 105.
If you haven't heard it within two or three episodes, then, yes, it'd probably be safe to bring it up.
So, keep that in mind if you're going back there.
But any kind of additional resources, information, or corrections, obviously, as in the email above, or questions,
we'll gladly share that on subsequent episodes or in the forum, whichever one you think is appropriate or however you want to handle it.
Just be careful that, you know, we didn't touch on it in one of the following episodes when the original one aired.
Let's see.
I want to make sure we have time here, so let's burn through some emails quickly.
I'm going to go into my high-speed voice, if that's all right with you, Savant.
High-speed voice.
Not that high.
It's not the chipmunk style.
So, just jump in and interrupt me if you do want to add to any of these.
But I'm going to start reading more quickly.
Well, real quick, he listened to 103 episodes in how long?
I don't think he said how long.
He just said he listened to them, found one of our MP3s from the Hope Conference that got him interested,
and he started listening to them in a row.
So, he didn't say how long it took him.
Fuck, man.
He's putting me to shame.
I haven't listened to 103 episodes in a row.
Him or her.
Yeah, like there's a her listening to the radio show.
I think we've beaten that dead horse to death, too.
Yeah.
Tits or get to foe.
That's the standard answer I think we have to do.
That's the standard 4chan answer, right?
Or get to foe.
That's right.
Did he, by the way, did you happen to notice, do you watch some Attack of the Show?
Say that again?
Attack of the Show.
Attack of the Show on G4, Tech TV, whatever the hell it's called.
No, I don't even get Tech TV.
Well, Duel got me watching this damn show on, it's G4, it used to be Tech TV, I think it's
G4, and it's an all gaming thing now, but Attack of the Show used to be called the Screensavers
the way I understand it.
I never watched it back then, because I didn't have Tech TV.
Okay, I did see the Screensavers for a minute back there with our good buddy, Kevin.
Yeah, let's, yeah, let's not throw the word good buddy around so easily there.
But yes, that show has evolved into what is now Attack of the Show, and it's the closest
thing they have to like a real tech show.
As I go off on this tangent, so much for saving time, on one of the screenshots, they have a
little computer right there at the table where they sometimes demo sites or bring something
up, they want to look something up real quickly on demand.
Well, they went to look something up, I don't even remember what it was, a blog or something
like that, but he couldn't help but notice in the, in their Firefox browser window, there
was another tab in the background to 4chan.org, which I thought was pretty funny.
Huh, I tried, you know, I just recently started trying to read 4chan with specific regards to
the B forum, and it just makes my brain melt.
It's weird, it's weird.
I can't so fucking get it.
Yeah, it's, you know what, but it's surprising, you know what hooked me was Catterday, that's
the only reason I ever go there, is to watch some Catterday.
But anyway, back to these emails, Threadhat, email from Threadhat, it says, Stankdog, in
episode 196, you mentioned that you were, quote, okay with red light cameras, unquote.
The problem with them is that they don't take pictures of the driver's face, which, okay,
I'm not sure if that's 100% correct, some maybe do, most probably don't, but point taken.
Eh, okay, I mean, I know for a fact that some do, but, okay.
Yeah, well, point taken, I mean, I don't think, most of them probably don't, especially the
early first generation ones may not, but, because it's, well, yeah, I honestly don't
know, but we'll take that at face value.
Problem with them is they don't take pictures of driver's face, which means the police have
no proof whatsoever as to who was driving the car.
And he's about to give a few links, so I'm going to give him the benefit that he did some
research and knows that to be correct, so I'm going to trust him on that one.
Yes, they give the ticket to the owner of the car anyway.
Privacy issues aside, this presents an enormous legal problem, innocent until proven guilty
in all that mess.
I believe that some people sued Minneapolis about the legality of red light cameras, and
they won, so the city had to take the whole system down.
Here's the article, and I tiny URL'd this to R, T, D, as in dog, S, and P, as in polite.
Okay.
That's not the first P word that popped into my mind, but I'll leave that alone.
It's not within the first ten words that popped into my mind, but okay.
Prostate?
No, that's not.
Check out the...
Hey, I think that's the first time I've ever used the word prostate on an episode of
BinRevRadio in almost 200 episodes.
That's a first.
There you go.
We've got to take pride in small victories.
Check out the following article.
He gives a couple more links on here that I'm not going to give out.
Wikipedia entry for road safety camera.
Anyway, I love the show.
Keep up the good work.
All right.
Thank you, ThreadHat.
Quickly, yes...
I've got a quick comment on that.
Okay, go for it.
All right.
Well, my little brother had this beater car that he eventually had to get rid of.
And so he sold it to some lady through the newspaper ad or whatever, maybe Craigslist.
And he didn't follow through in processing the registration paperwork.
So, lo and behold, one day he receives a ticket in the mail.
And it's one of those little red light cameras.
And it shows three different shots, one of which does have the license plate.
But the other two feature a Mexican woman driving the car.
Whoa.
So, I mean, yeah, it wasn't very hard for him to challenge the ticket, other than, you know, a certain figure wagging for not updating the registration in time.
But, I mean, that did kind of save his ass.
Right.
And, you know, the thing is, and that's one thing I certainly give credence to what he's saying, is that it probably would be tough to make a lot of these stand up in court.
If there's no picture of the face at all, then, yeah, that's probably what happened in Minneapolis here, is there's no way of proving it.
And you're innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So, that's probably the case there.
But if they would have had the face recognition, like what you're saying you know for a fact to exist, and if they catch a mistake like that, it's someone else's face, then that's easy to go in and disprove and save yourself.
It's a pain in the ass that you had to go do that, or that they had to go do that.
But, you know, like you said, he screwed up by not changing the registration, so he kind of brought that on himself.
So, you know, I did say that, and I still do kind of personally feel that way.
But, yeah, I would argue in court, there's all kinds of loopholes.
I'm not saying that it's very sound legally.
I'm just saying on a kind of, and I'm only speaking for myself on this one, this is not the biggest privacy concern that I have these days.
There are so many more abuses of our privacy going on that, to me, red light cameras are just the smallest, you know, they're at the bottom of the hill.
You know, I think there's much bigger fish in the pond that we need to be focusing on besides that.
Like a warrantless wire test, for example.
I mean, we could, yeah, we could go off into a whole episode and let's not.
Let's not.
But, I mean, honestly, I would think that these cameras for catching your everyday Joe Blow speeder, you know, they're going to work 99% of the time,
or higher than 99% of the time, or something like that.
So, aren't sure there's exceptions, and we could come up with them all day long, but I guess that's all I have to say about that.
Let's see, next email is from Prince Vegeta, who seems to be a regular emailer on the show lately.
But that's good, he's sending in some good stuff.
He says, Dear Stank, this is in response to the CCTV episode, the closed circuit television.
So, I got in trouble with the law.
I'm going to shorten, I'm shortening his email with his permission.
He had to go to a, to the police in this small town, small town, probably a small room, a couple people in there.
I was shocked to see 10 computer monitors showing live streams of about 40 cameras installed in town.
Above that, the system had some kind of software.
You could see anything that moved focused using green and red rectangles.
I saw a cat moving in the bushes and a bright green rectangle around it.
I saw cars moving by some, by, some with green rectangles, and one in particular had a red rectangle.
I asked the cop about that, and he said that car was speeding.
Cool.
They didn't send a patrol car.
Plus, any two rectangles that intersected, I can't find a better word, became red.
That's cool.
So, if you get hit on the road by a drunk driver, at least the cops saw it.
Too bad, you're dead.
So, about that, what do you think?
Is this CCTV?
How do you think they send the data from the cameras to the central computers?
Can I find this kind of software on the int?
That would be the interweb, I guess.
Do you think that someone could hack the signal and see what the cops see?
Um, uh, oh shit.
Well, you can speak very authoritatively on this subject.
Right.
And, Matt, that's what I do for a living.
I develop and test this hardware and software, but I don't want to drop the box on my screen.
Yeah, be careful.
Um, let me, let me, let me do, let me do this.
Let me do this.
Let me throw out a couple things, and you can give me true or false as responses.
Um, I'm, I would assume they're encrypted pretty well.
Any of these signals coming through?
Okay, well.
If, if, okay, I'll just take that for what it's worth.
Moving on.
If they were not encrypted, then it would make it much easier, but you would have to know how they're being transmitted, whether it's wired or wireless, and in whichever case, and somehow connect to that frequency or connect to that hard wire running wherever it's running and intercepted.
If it's not encrypted, then, yeah, there's really not a whole lot more to it.
If it is encrypted, then, depending on what kind of encryption they use, if they're, actually, I was talking about this at my, uh, with one of my BR407 guys the other day, Ice Toad, about, um, if it was simply just WEP encryption or something like that.
We all know how easy it is to crack WEP anymore, so it would be a pretty easy matter of cracking WEP and then still recording and seeing everything that is being transmitted over there.
So unless they're not encrypted with strong encryption, it's just like anything else.
Well, uh, so, majority of old-school closed-circuit TV systems are based off of analog technology, so it generally tends to be a wire, often a BNC cable connecting them.
However, nowadays, that's not strictly true as often, especially with the proliferation and inexpensiveness of IP cameras.
But generally, they are hardwired because the, uh, the overhead, the network overhead is so high for these devices because generally they require, um, you know, a standard you can get anywhere from one frame a second to half a frame a second to up to 30 frames per second for, um, gosh, NTSC and I think PALS 29.7.
But, um, normally they want to have, you know, gigabit fiber running between them.
Sometimes there's wireless, although it's just not practical to have more than one, uh, camera running over wireless because it tends to trial over itself.
But in terms of encryption, more often than not, you might find something along the lines of a proprietary implementation of standard MPEG codecs.
So, if you were able to capture these packets and you were handy with, uh, network fuzzing, then you might be able to ascertain some valuable data out of it.
And I know for a fact in black box testing that this does, can and does happen.
Um, what else did he talk on?
Now, most of the time and out of the box it says, all right, you really ought to have this on a closed network.
Now, how often that actually happens is kind of hard to say.
And every now and then you'll find somebody that just did an RTFM and they will put it on a wide area network.
Or in some cases, um, say you've got a hotel or casino, Acme Casino.
They will have them on the same network that they'll put like their voice phones on.
So if you have a suite in Acme Casino that has a voice over IP phone, like a Cisco 9790,
you can plug your laptop into a pass report and gain trusted access, um, from a trusted MAC address inside their, their network.
And so it is possible and does happen.
Wow.
There you go.
I hope I didn't drop the docs there.
Well, um, no, I think we dropped some good information and, uh, I don't think it's anything secret or proprietary there.
I think it's known just, um, yeah, I think it's, I think it's very interesting.
Well, one thing I've, one thing I've come across is that the people who design these systems,
despite they're being used for physical security, are not thinking about side of the box in a security perspective.
Their, their mindset is that since it's a quote unquote closed system, that they don't have to worry about security.
And that's just, I, I just bang my fucking head against the wall trying to convince these people that if you're going to have security in the name of your product,
then it damn well better be secure, you know, not just a, oh, well, it can't connect to the internet.
So no one's going to have access to root this box.
Yeah.
Well.
And then, you know, they could think it's like oceans 11 or not that technically far off.
Right.
I mean, you know, it, we, it, we've, it's been before the interweb, you know, it was common knowledge in the hacking community that, um, physical access is the best and easiest way.
And that's still true to this day, even with the interweb, you get physical access to anything and you've got time and power and access all on your side.
It's just a matter of time.
Yep.
So.
I mean, an attacker has an infinite amount of time, patience, resources, whatever else.
It's just folly to think that a firewall is going to solve all your problems.
Right.
Now, you know, the, the other thing is, you know, to answer the question, I think we've done that is, is it possible?
Yeah, I guess it is, but am I really going to put that much time into something like that?
Are you being like attacked by a herd of giraffes or what's going on there?
Well, I'm doing, you know, you're fading in and out.
I'm trying to find a spot where I can stand where I'm not going to lose you.
Uh oh.
Okay.
Um, well, you know, it's a, it's one of those benefit cost type things.
It's like, it's not worth my time to spend just to intercept a, a traffic light signal.
You know, if there was something else, maybe, but you know, it's like, there's so many other things out there more interesting that, I mean, it's a neat to, to see,
if you could do it, I guess, for the challenge of it.
But, I don't know, the reward, the risk reward ratio for that one's a little skewed in my opinion.
Well, what if you're going to rob a bank, you know, and you know that they have active video security camera systems?
I mean, then it becomes very much worth your time if you're going forward with it.
If you're going to be the guy in the van, you know, it's definitely worth your time.
I don't think our listeners, or at least I sure as hell hope not, our listeners are robbing banks.
I hope not.
We're just, we're just tinkering and hoping that the, you know, wondering how the tech works, that's all.
So, how somebody then applies that knowledge, that's completely out of our hands and hopefully they don't use it for the wrong reasons and then call themselves hackers about it.
Well, if you do, then you heard about it on Attack of the Show and not on BinRev Radio.
Exactly.
You read about it on Dig.
Next email, let's see, let's go ahead to Alpha Hacker, who says,
Hello, Mr. Dog, I was listening to one of your episodes.
You talked about some phone line you call in and can listen to past episodes of RFA, BinRev, etc.
Of course, that's Bell's mind he's talking about.
I was wondering if you can make something that you can call a number and it connects to the box and that box plays the stream from BinRev.com.
So, for example, I could call a number on a bus and listen to the stream.
For me, that would be international, but I got some free time international.
I'm from Australia, by the way.
G'day, mate!
Would be really cool.
Keep up the good work.
Hmm.
I guess that's certainly possible.
I don't think that'd be difficult at all.
Stream it to a box that also has asterisks on it and can play the delayed stream.
I don't think there'd be anything to that at all.
You could probably tell that for sure, right?
Yeah, I mean, what are you talking about?
Basically just an asterisk box that relays some MP3 streams?
I mean, is that different than what Bell's mind does currently?
Well, Bell's mind plays the old MP3 archived files.
I don't know that we've ever...
It seems like we did try that at one point.
We were streaming the live stream and you could dial it and listen to it live.
I mean, it's just another input, right?
Whether it's playing MP3 locally using ISAs or whatever and feeding into it, it's still just another input, data input.
I would think so.
I mean...
Yeah, I'm not...
I don't know of any particular technical challenges that would not allow it.
I don't know.
You just have to do it.
Yeah, I don't think there's anything either.
I think that's absolutely a possibility.
So, we might have to look into that.
Well, wait, no, actually, hold on.
Hold on.
I just realized how stupid we are.
Actually, I know that to be a fact because, duh, that's exactly what we did with Freak Factor, wasn't it?
That's exactly what we did with Freak Factor.
Freak Factor, you would dial in and you'd be listening to the live stream while you were on hold when you got put in the hold channels.
Even on, I think, when Strom and Ratchet were doing BinRev Radio on season three, was it?
They had people on hold and the people on hold were listening to the stream until they were joined in to ask their question live.
That's why they're doing live shows.
So, yeah, I'm positive that we have done that, that that is technically possible.
And since the streams are, you know, public access, there's no reason that he couldn't set up an asterisk box.
He or she couldn't set up an asterisk box on their own with a local number so that it wouldn't necessarily be international.
Yeah, actually, that's a good point, too.
Then you wouldn't have to eat up international minutes.
Very good point.
Yep, good stuff.
Okay, so let's see.
Last email this week, before we go into our DEF CON wrap-up, is from Victor.
Victor says,
Yes, thank fuck, Dig.
You are my hero.
Keep up with the show.
Yeah, well, about the whole fuck, Dig thing.
Yeah, I saw that somebody went over there and said,
Hacker trashes Dig on his radio show or something like that for last week's episode.
All I really said was the same thing that I've said many times in the past that I don't think Dig is all that original of an idea.
It's no better off.
I mean, you know, I'm sorry if this pisses people off.
I know there's a lot of Kevin Rose fanboys, but what he's doing is, to me, no different than what Jason Calacanis has done, another person I've spoken out against.
They basically are getting other people to do their work for them, and they're capitalizing on it financially.
I mean, you've got a bunch of users that are providing your content, and then you are selling advertising and making, in Calacanis' case, and I'm sure Rose's case at this point, millions of dollars on advertising on those sites.
Not to mention, you know, how much did he end up selling, Calacanis ended up selling Weblogs Inc. to AOL, I think it was, and making a lot, several million on it.
All you were doing was hiring slave labor, and that's nothing to brag about in my mind, you know?
I don't see where it's really all that big of an accomplishment.
I mean, I could post ads all over binrev.com all these years.
Oh, we've got users that are posting great content.
I don't feel right capitalizing on it, and I guess other people do.
So, I mean, that's nothing new.
I don't know why it just came up that somebody says I trashed him on the radio show.
No, I just spoke honestly.
That's my opinion.
I'm sure he feels completely opposite of that.
So, I don't know.
But it was funny when they did put the thread over on Dig saying that I trashed him.
In the reply to it, it's like, yeah, let's show them the power of Dig.
Let's show them the Dig effect and take their server to the ground.
Yeah.
Fail!
We're right here, guys.
That's a fail.
Still here.
And anyway, hey, thanks for the traffic.
I'd appreciate it.
I really liked Dig when I first visited, and it was called Slashdot.org.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So, hey, send as many hits as you want.
I'll take them all, you know, because a lot of those people, I'm not saying all Dig users,
but, damn it, sometimes reading those comments and stuff is just so, oh my God, I want to
just punch people through the interweb.
If there was some way that I could fit my fist in the tubes, oh my God, I swear to God,
I would punch so many people.
But, anyway.
Fist over IP technology, I like it.
Foip.
Cool.
That's fist over IP, not fisting over IP.
Two totally different sites, but anyway.
All right.
Not lucrative.
Let's go into our main topic with what little time we have left.
We don't need to put a whole lot of time into this anyway, but kind of a DEFCON 15 wrap-up
since both Savant and I were there making sweet, sweet love down by the fire.
Well, we didn't really need fire.
It was like 108 degrees in Vegas for most of the week, so we didn't really need any fire.
It was pretty much hot all the time anyway.
Hot damn, all the time.
I think the first thing, obviously, to talk about the big news, the big drama from DEFCON
was the whole Dateline incident.
So, why don't you start off and talk about that since I've been running my mouth for a
while.
Okay.
Well, the gist of that was this Dateline NBC New York reporter.
I believe her first name is Michelle.
Michelle Madigan, her name was.
She allegedly had refused press credentials multiple times from Dark Tangent and the rest of
the DEFCON people and decided instead to carry a hidden camera into the event and videotape
hackers and try to get them to admit or to demonstrate on film, willingly breaking the law.
And it's just a huge, huge violation of not just privacy and everything else, but of DEFCON
policy that states that you cannot film or photograph anyone without their express permission.
And so, she ended up getting corralled into one of the big events for what was supposed
to be a Spot the Fed contest.
DEFCON tradition.
And she got tangents on stage and said, all right, well, we're going to try something
a little different.
We're going to call this Spot the Undercover Dateline Reporter.
And he went into a short tangent about how she, you know, violated the rules and denied
the credentials.
And then he asked the audience, what do you think we should do?
Do you think we should let her go?
And there was no, no, hell no, for fair type of responses.
Or do you think we should ask her to leave until she gets her press credentials?
And so, of course, the audience, you know, uprised against her.
And she kind of outed herself and stood up and ran from the auditorium and ran all the
way out to the parking lot, you know, followed by a mob of people.
And there's, you know, people videotaping it and, you know, calling her names and taunting
her.
Like, catch a predator?
And comments like that.
Right.
All the way to her car.
And she freaked out as she was leaving the parking lot and ended up making a few wrong
turns, delaying her fast getaway even further.
Much to the light of onlookers.
Yeah.
And, you know, like, luckily I, luckily I saw this later.
Um, I, well, okay.
See, I didn't actually see this happen.
I wasn't in the talk.
So, I'm not sure.
Whoa, there it goes right there.
I'm trying to tiny URL the link to this right now so our listeners who have not seen
it can actually see the video.
Um, but I wasn't actually there in the presentation when it happened, but I heard about it and
my first concern was, and I'll let, here's the tiny URL.
It's three nine V as in Victor, another V as in Victor, D F.
So, if you want to go to tiny URL three nine V V D F, you can see the video.
It's about six, seven minutes long, I think.
I hope I got the right one.
Um, and my concern when I heard the story before I'd seen the footage was, it's still
going to look bad for hackers because I'm with you all the way up to the point of, um,
obviously she had a, I know in the video at the beginning, dark engine even said, you
still go out to the front desk right now and get a press pass so that you can be identified
and you can stay.
You know, he wasn't totally kicking her out or anything.
He was just saying you can't really spy on people.
That's not right.
My problem and my concern, I should say, before I saw the footage was that I had heard that
she was chased down the parking lot exactly like you described and people were taunting
and yelling at her.
Well, guess what?
If she's got a camera and even if she didn't, other people obviously recorded it.
My concern was, now you've crossed a different line.
Call her out.
Tell her she has to leave if she doesn't get a press pass.
That's all well and good.
But as soon as she leaves, you know, the building and is heading to her car, personally, that's
when it stops for me.
It's crossing kind of a different line into, I'm not going to say it was harassment.
She was on the property, still on the premises in the parking lot and all that, filming her
all the way and taunting her.
I don't know.
For me, that's not a real positive thing to do and that footage could end up still turning
around and being like, you know, they can still turn that later on and say, we sent
somebody to a hacker conference and she ended up being harassed and tormented by the evil
Haxors.
So I don't know that we did a whole lot of good by chasing her out to the car.
Now, when I did finally see the footage, it wasn't as bad as it could have been and as
bad as I thought it might have been.
They crossed, they were very close.
The only thing I didn't particularly like, and this is just my personal feelings, I know
people won't agree, but I didn't like that some people were cursing at her.
If there wasn't have been the foul language, to me that kind of crossed a different line
personally, but the taunts of, ha ha, you're not a very good undercover reporter, or to
catch a dateline scammer or undercover whatever, that part I was kind of fine with because
she brought that on herself, morally speaking.
So, obviously everybody's morals are a little different and it's definitely not as bad as
I had worried that it might be.
So, it kind of worked out, but I just wish that, I wish that when they called her out
they would have just kind of chased her to the door, not chased her, but, you know, taunted
her to the door.
But, on that video, they're filming her, you can see her license plate clearly.
I don't know if it was a rental or her own, but that opens up a lot of things.
Did I also hear, I don't know if you can confirm this, but did I also hear she, I don't
know if she chose to or had to because of harassment to take down her MySpace and something
else, some pages.
Her LinkedIn profile.
And stuff like that.
Was that because, I mean, I hope people weren't messing with her after it was all over and
done with.
I mean, she had been, she'd already got served, is that the saying?
She'd already been, you know, kind of given her humiliation.
I hope people weren't still going after her after it was all over with.
Well, I'm sure she did it herself in an effort to kind of try and stuff the genie back in
the bottle.
Well.
You know, in regards to what you're saying about portraying us with a negative light,
even the unedited footage taken by attendees at DEF CON that was posted on YouTube, if you
read the comments, there's all sorts of viewer backlash, you know, saying, okay, well, that's
what happens when a girl tries to go to a conference, all the nerds scare her off.
You know, I mean, there's already backlash and whether or not the NBC decides to spin
that and make it look even worse will sort of only augment that perception.
We really didn't do ourselves any favors, but it's still damn funny.
No, it definitely is.
Don't get me wrong.
I don't have a whole lot of pity for her.
I just, you know, an opportunity for them to just spin against hackers and OMG their
evil hack source kind of stuff.
So it's, it's, it's unfortunate, but even, um, actually I stayed in DEF CON for like nine
total days because I actually went with my father who has not been to DEF CON a while.
So we went on a vacation.
So, um, I showed him the footage and he is, uh, people who have listened for a long time
probably have heard stories that my father is not the most computer literate person.
He doesn't really know or get hacking.
He's learns quite a bit.
He's learned a little bit more, but my dad actually came away from DEF CON.
He didn't actually attend.
Um, I took him down and walked around, let him see the place.
Um, he definitely was not into the, some of the, oh, what's the polite word?
Some of the interesting characters and hairdos and tattoos and things like that definitely
wasn't his speed, but I showed him the footage and you know, he saw what had happened and
everything.
And he said as well, he says she got what she deserved.
That's what she gets.
So my dad's pretty conservative against that kind of stuff.
And even he thought she had it coming for lack of a better word.
And also, and this is probably nobody cares, but also I did bring my father and walked him
through the conference, um, just to show and point out here's some of the stuff that's
going on.
Here's where the war games, here's one of the speaking rooms.
I did that, you know, 10 minute walkthrough and you know what caught, you know what impressed
him more than anything there.
And I don't know if anybody else listening even noticed this, but you know, my dad pretty
much gets the stereotypical, whatever they show on Fox news type views on everything,
which is evil hacksaws.
And then I try to tell him, right.
And then I try to tell him otherwise, no, that's not what we're about.
They make that stuff up.
And he believes me to a certain extent.
Well, when I took him in there, something spoke volumes that was in there to both him and
to myself because I pointed them out to him is when we first walked in, as we walked
through the pool was the American flag hanging up right there at the front entrance, walking
through the glass doors.
You know, this whole stereotype of hackers are evil and we're all against the government
and all this kind of stuff.
No, that's not exactly true and accurate.
We're trying to fix the government.
We're trying to point out things that are wrong.
It doesn't mean we're not proud of this country.
And I'm sorry I'm going off on a weird tangent.
Damn it.
I want to go off on this, but it's relevant to my interests.
The other thing is back in the breakout area.
Is that what they call it?
The hangout room or whatever?
Yeah, like the after show question and answer section.
Right.
The breakout area.
Yep.
Hanging up from one of the, hanging from one of the suites up there.
The suites that are overlooking the area.
The skybox.
Yeah, the skybox.
That's the word I'm looking for.
Hanging from the skybox was also the old, old flag with the snake that says,
don't tread on me.
You know, hackers actually stand and believe in this stuff.
We're about freedom.
And I've, you know, I've explained this to my father and other people.
But when he saw that himself, he actually got it.
Like you could see that he really appreciated and understood that, wow,
I didn't realize that they really, really felt this strongly about freedoms
and about these sort of things.
So even though he might not understand the methods or the ways,
it was really a good experience to see, for him to see that.
And to know a little bit better that, you know what,
what they say on TV and what they make us out to be,
it's just not right.
It's just not right.
So, I didn't mean to bring the show down with that,
but it was kind of relevant.
Yeah, it all appeared in my eyes.
I know, you know, and I really, I really, really am glad that my father saw that.
And I wish more people did.
If anybody, I wish I would have taken my camera and gotten some footage of,
that meant more to me than a lot of the other stuff that was going on in there.
There was a lot of negative stuff going on here and there too,
which we won't go into.
But it's nice to see things like that, that people are not aware of.
And even, I bet you out of the, probably what, 8,000 plus that attended,
I bet you 90% or more didn't even notice those things.
Didn't even see those flags.
It meant nothing to them.
No, I didn't until you mentioned it.
Yeah, so, you know, that kind of stuff, to me, that means a lot.
So, whoever, and I don't think those were put up by DEFCON staff.
They were probably put up by other, by DEFCON attendees somewhere.
I don't know that to be certain or whatever,
but if you're listening and you know, please tell me.
But regardless of the fact, whoever did hang those up, know that it was not lost.
Know that I enjoyed that and I was very proud to see that.
So, thank you to whoever did hang them up.
Now, that's okay, that's fine, the big dateline drama.
Okay, whatever else.
Now, the reason we go to conferences, and how are you on time, by the way?
You good?
I'm running close, but I'm still with you.
Okay, so just let me know if you have to bail here.
But, obviously, the main thing, the main reason people go to conferences is for the talks.
So, let's, yeah, let's single a few out.
And we're going to have to only do a few because, A, I'll be honest, I did not attend but three or four talks the whole weekend.
I spent most of my time connecting on a personal level, like singling out people that I, you know, definitely wanted to talk to about some specific things and meeting a lot of people from the forums and old friends of the show.
So, I really only saw, or friends of the forums or friends of mine in general, and I only got to see like three or four talks the whole weekend.
How about you?
I think I saw two, maybe three.
I know I saw Cisco Gate talk, and I know I saw Johnny Long's talk.
Right.
Which was great.
I'm hesitant to think if I actually saw any of the other ones.
Well, okay.
Well, let's start with Johnny Long then because we both saw that one.
First of all, Johnny's a great speaker.
He really is good.
He's comfortable in front of everybody.
He puts in the effort to prepare his slides.
He knows what they are.
He doesn't have to read off of cards.
He doesn't have to, like, he knows his material.
So, it's not robotic.
It's not reading exactly off the cards.
He's certainly got notes like everybody else giving a talk.
But he's very good and very natural at giving it because he's prepared his material long in advance.
It's not something he did the night before, which is a pet peeve of mine at people at conferences.
And actually, we'll refer to that in a second, too, so keep that in the back of your mind.
All right.
Secondly, he keeps it lighthearted.
He's very, very funny.
You know?
Yeah.
It's very easy.
Even in a technical talk where people are here to hear technical topics, it's easy to get bored.
And he definitely has a good mix of humor in with the actual content, which I think is great.
So, definitely, I'd have to say that was the best talk that I saw all weekend.
That's not saying much.
I only saw three or four.
And that's the thing is I think that most people that are, you know, fans of his talks would agree with you on those same reasons.
He can make something completely non-technical or, you know, like he did a few times Hacking Hollywood, which was a hilarious look at movies' interpretations of hackers.
And he went so as far as to make you believe why the movies got it right and the security industry actually got it wrong or the hackers were wrong.
Right.
And he, you know, would make a lot of references to the Cisco wine that the guy from Swordfish may have been drinking while he coded on his seven monitors and, you know, echoing 423 to see what's up.
And the codes they use in hackers actually being optional HTML codes in some cases.
Yeah, see, he just, he puts the time into making a good, takes pride in putting together a good presentation.
And maybe I'm a little biased too because he mentioned my, some of my stuff in his talk, which was really nice to see.
Giving credit, you know, giving credit to people and actually, you know, that goes a long way too, especially building relationships and stuff like that.
So, um, he was one of the people that I had made sure I wanted to spend some time and talk to about a few specific projects and we did do that.
So I'm looking forward to some of those things.
Um, let's see, what other talks did I see?
I saw, oh, actually, let me, I kind of alluded to this a second ago about not in preparation.
I heard, I did not see this, I don't know if you did, but I heard there was a terrible talk where the person was completely unprepared.
And I think it was hacking EVDO was supposed to be the topic.
Mm-hmm.
Did you hear about this?
Um, I didn't hear by your specific reference, but I know that King Tuna from War Driving World gave that talk.
Uh, I don't, I don't know who it is, I heard this second hand or something, but I guess it was, I don't know, hacking.
Actually, it sounded interesting.
That was one of the ones I did kind of want to see.
Um, I guess, and I believe, I don't, I don't know this guy, so I don't mean to disrespect him.
I just heard that, um, it was really bad because he, he did not prepare anything.
That he sat down in his talk and was actually trying to figure it out as he went along.
Oh.
And that's just not the way to approach giving a talk.
If that's accurate and if that's true, and forgive me, King, uh, King Tuna, is that what he was?
No.
I mean, incorrect, but I guess it didn't work what he was trying to demo, and they also said that it was misleading what the topic was.
There was no really hacking EVDO.
I guess the long and short of it was how to get your EVDO card working under Linux.
So, I'm not sure.
Really?
Yeah, so I, again, I don't know, King Tuna, if you're listening, email me and correct me if I'm wrong there.
But, um, yeah, I heard some people, I heard several different individual people say that that talk was really rough,
but I guess the crowd gave him a pretty hard time.
So, that didn't go over too well.
Uh, one other talk, one other talk that I did see that was good was, uh, I forgot what the name of it, the title was,
but it was basically Hacking Your Car.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, that one was really good.
I thought that was probably the second best one that I saw.
It was, um, uh, basically about ricing out your engine, but, uh, not so much from the mechanical aspect,
like, um, Logos X and I have talked about in the show and done on Hack TV, but more the computerized systems that run them now.
They control how much fuel gets sent to the engine and how much boost and, and things like that.
Um, it has all the, basically, let's call it configuration for your engine and how it works.
And there are tools and things out there now and websites that have databases of information about how that works.
So, he went through a lot of that, gave some videos and demonstrations of it, which was really cool and very funny.
Uh, him demonstrating some of that stuff on a quote-unquote closed course, which had other people driving on it in the background
who apparently did not realize that it was a closed course.
Yeah, that was a funny, that was funny when he, uh, when he said that.
So, that was pretty good.
So, I like that talk a lot.
Um, what else you got? Anything?
Yeah, I saw the, uh, the Cisco gate talk, which, uh, was, like, pretty much standing room only.
And I thought that was really good.
Uh, Dark Tangent, as a policy, tends to never talk at his own conferences because he feels it is, you know, a bit unfair.
He needs to give himself that advantage.
But, he wanted, he thought it was safe after two years now, after the whole Black Hat, uh, Cisco gate.
Um, this one.
And if you're not familiar with that, Mike Lin was a researcher at ISS at the time.
We're going to give a talk on using, exploiting Cisco's iOS routers with their implementation of IPv6 to execute arbitrary code.
And, uh, well, long story short, there was a huge fallout.
ISS, you know, there was a pulse to ask them to pull the talk, but in so many words, the language they used in their communications
to the Black Hat DEF CON staff was, they never said, please do this.
They said, hey, is it possible? Is it possible?
And Jeff's like, well, yeah, it's possible.
And then, and they wouldn't hear anything for a while.
But since they never straight up asked, you know, except for the very last minute, you know,
24, 48 hours before the conference was supposed to go on, that's when they freaked out.
Cisco flew out all their people that were at the conference.
They all came out and they were higher temps off the street to shred, uh, Mike's section out of the, the Black Hat attendees booklet
and to re-burn all of the CDs that were used, um, that were given out to conference attendees.
And he was, he, I was surprised at how light he went on Cisco.
I mean, it's themed by the name Cisco gate and by all the backlash that it made them out to be, you know, a big, bad giant.
And at the talk, I was really surprised to find out that he thought that it wasn't so much Cisco that was doing the griping as ISS.
And it was funny because the way he built up the story, they're like, Mike decides to go ahead and he was supposed to give a talk on voice over IP.
And the audience basically booed him.
And he's like, all right, you guys want to hear the talk on the highest iOS?
And everyone's like, yeah, yeah.
So we called up ISS, quits his job on the spot, and then fires up the presentation, um, about iOS.
And, you know, he had a few of the key ingredients edited out, so he wasn't dropping major docs.
And this was on a software that had been patched 30 days prior.
So it wasn't like this ground-shaking revolution so much as just, hey, this is really interesting.
And it just, they lost face.
ISS and Cisco lost a lot of face by the way they handled it.
Right.
So it was pretty, pretty entertaining.
Yeah, and I remember when that happened.
That was actually the last year.
I think that was 13 that that happened at.
The last one at, um, the last one at the Alexis Park Hotel.
Um, and I remember talking to Mike at DEFCON 14 about it.
You know, how it all shook out and all that kind of stuff.
And he filled me in on a lot of that behind-the-scenes information as well.
And we've talked about that on the show before.
And we've tried to get Abaddon on the show before, but haven't worked out that timing either.
And of course, with the nature of that, he wasn't able to do the show and talk about those topics subsequently thereafter either.
So, um, yeah, that was, um, I did not go to that, but I kind of already knew that story is kind of one of the reasons I didn't bother going.
So, um, I already gotten that information pretty much straight from the horse's mouth, I guess, for lack of a better word.
Uh, let's see.
I also saw, um, of course, when I go to these, I make sure that my friends, when they're, when my friends are speaking, I'll make sure I go see their talks.
So, you know, I stopped in on, on, um, uh, Radman, giving his underground, uh, media, hacker media in the underground, uh, how to do book publishing or publishing, uh, and selling items, books, self-publishing, stuff like that.
So I went to see that. It was a panel that he was on and that was pretty good.
Um, always support stuff that he does.
And the guys over at acid and Nancy, um, treaters in the man that's, uh, always been a long time friend of ours.
Uh, Jason Scott as well, definitely made sure to bump into him while he was there.
Um, any other talks that we should mention before we kind of start wrapping up here?
Um, no, not that I can think of. That's pretty much all I saw.
Um, we had our BINREV meeting, our BINREV get-together.
Oh, yeah.
That was really good.
Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
We had probably, like I said, 30 to 40 people at that.
I gave, uh, a presentation there for everybody, which was kind of fun.
I had, uh, a longer, like an hour-long presentation that I was submitted for DEF CON and probably going to submit for HOPE upcoming.
Um, so I decided instead of spending an hour presenting that and probably would have taken longer in that environment,
uh, having to scream and repeat myself and everything, um, I went with a shorter presentation that I've given at my local conferences.
And it was pretty fun because we were also able to get a live connection and demo it in front of everybody.
So that was pretty fun.
And, uh, yeah, we unveiled the t-shirts there.
So a few people got their t-shirts there.
First, first ones to get their shirts.
So the next day I was kind of proud to see several people wearing their BINREV shirt.
The orange one seemed to be very popular.
Yeah, it's so easily distinguishable as well.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, you know, the whole thing, I want to get away from the all black shirt.
Come, come, you know, the black shirt club.
Kind of mixing some stuff up here, trying to change, you know, part of the binary revolution and whatnot.
And, um, wow, I guess we could go into a lot of other detail.
I mean, we ran into a bunch of cool people there and, um, probably save that for the shouts.
The only other thing, and I don't know if I told you this story or not yet, but, um,
or is there anything else before we close out DEF CON that you wanted to bring up?
Uh, no, but I think that we pretty much covered it.
Okay, well, after DEF CON, or actually I should say Sunday night, yeah, after DEF CON,
um, Logos X and Natas and I were still in town, so we actually had bought tickets to go see Penn and Teller that night.
So we went to see Penn and Teller over at the Rio, and, you know, just because we wanted to go hang out and see the show, right?
Well, in their show, which, of course, Penn and Teller, if you don't know, are magicians slash comedians in their comedy.
Uh, I think they're really funny.
Um, but in their show, they did their standard stuff.
Well, there's one part in the show where they do kind of a newspaper trick, I guess, and they hold up a newspaper,
and they start ripping it apart as part of the trick.
But as they're doing it, they're reading these pretend headlines.
It's basically an excuse for them to do some comedy, make some jokes.
So they're reading the paper as they tear it for the trick.
They're like, oh, look at this, you know, Paris Hilton's in jail again, or, you know, whatever.
Just an excuse to make a comedy, an on-topic joke.
Well, as they were doing it, as they got towards the end, the very last thing that he said was,
oh, hey, hey, Teller, take a look at this.
This dumb bitch went to DEF CON and got chased off the premises.
So I thought that was the coolest thing ever because I don't know if they're just track and know who's in town
and therefore assume maybe there's a few attendees, or if they actually heard about that or knew about that
because it had hit some small media outlets here and there.
My mom said she'd seen it on TV.
So I don't know if they really saw it because it was a news item or if they really followed that thing.
Or it's just standard practice.
If it would have been a shoe convention, they would have made a shoe convention joke.
But either way, it worked out pretty good.
And I would say I heard probably 20 or so people in the crowd, like, kind of scream or clap when it came to that part.
And, of course, I had to scream, I hacked the planet at the top of my lungs, which was pretty fun.
That's an awesome way to end it.
Yeah, so that was pretty good.
So, it sounds like you are about to go on your way.
Yeah, I got to disappear.
So, before you do, we are wrapping the show up right now.
You got any shouts?
I'll let you lead off with shouts.
Yeah, yeah, I'd like to especially give shouts to Duel Parallel and his wife, whom I finally got to meet after hearing him on the show.
Yes.
That was really cool.
Yes, and Sean Kennedy and Samarian.
Definitely cool meeting them for the first time in person because I talked to Sim through email quite a bit with Rant Radio.
So, it was cool to meet them in person and thank them for all they've done for us over the years.
Let's see, who else?
Well, I got to give a lot of shouts, if I may.
I went specifically looking for some people to talk about some specific topics.
So, I got to give shouts to Scott Moulton, Greg Conti, Jason Scott, to Radman again, Bill Pollack, Johnny Long.
All gave me very good commitments to some upcoming projects that I'm hoping to work with all of them on.
So, thank you very much for the support to them.
Big shouts to them.
To Natus, to Gene Eric, Fluidic Slave, stop by and chat with me about the show and a couple other things.
So, I'm going to see if I can't fulfill a request he made to me if I can.
To Eyeball, to Royal, to Logosex again.
Everybody who showed up for the DEF CON meeting.
Again, too many people to list everybody.
And I tried to meet as many as I can.
I always love meeting everybody.
To Seal, welcome to DDP.
So, I'm sure I'm missing people, so I apologize.
But shouts to everybody that I met at DEF CON.
Hosting for Binary Revolution Radio provided by Caro.net.
If you need, and actually they have shared hosting plans up now.
Whether you need dedicated hosting, shared hosting, check them out.
They've been very good to us, so check them out.
The site of the week is a site from Johnny Long.
It's ihackcharities.org, which is a funny sounding URL, ihackcharities.org.
It's not about hacking charities, but it's about hackers working to help out charities.
So, it's a site of the week, and it's a good cause I want to get everybody involved with.
And I'm going to try to really closely affiliate that with BINREV,
and more precisely with BINREV meetings for activities for that.
Email us for anything at all.
Radio at BINREV.com.
Any feedback.
Our closing music tonight is from Freeze Pop.
It's called Science Genius Girl.
This is the WMBR remix, I believe.
And that is going to do it.
Savant, anything to add before we close out and let you go on about your business?
No, let's do it.
That's it.
We will see everybody next episode.
Same hack time.
Same hack channel.
Do not adjust your radios.
Turn off your televisions.
Put the kids to sleep.
Now.
Get home.
Leave everyone again.
See new facilities.
And put the kids to sleep.
It all depends.
On my rocks
I'm a science genius girl. I won the science fair. I wear a white lab coat. Be any strength in my hair.
When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. When I clone a human being, it will be a member of my band.
When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand.
When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand. When I clone a human being, it will be a member of my band.
When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand.
When Iwią, I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand.
When I clone a human being, it will want to hold my hand.
It is here and holds my hands.
I have known a human being.
It is now a member of my band.