This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers.
I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you
and a fag pwned, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in
my six-fold, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable,
on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and
I'm a hero, in a flash, I'll screw you on burning dreamcast, you need some ISO, let me through
my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught
the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's
all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling
your phones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ leaves your fight on
your back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and
crack, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs,
RANs, SIFs, SIFs, this is dedicated to the hackers and crack.
Hello everybody and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode number 199, I am Stank Dog and
you are listening to this on September 11th, 2007, six year anniversary of a very important
date, but we have a packed show this week, so I'm not gonna waste too much time here up
front at the top of the show, although it is pretty cool that we are closing in on 200
episodes of the show, but to get to 200 we're gonna have to go through number 199, which I
think is gonna be a great show, because this is gonna be a very cool topic, very interesting
topic to me, because I don't know a whole lot about this, so I have had to go out and
recruit someone who knew much more about this to myself, so I would like to welcome to the
show our first time co-host, Tom Icom, Tom from New England, welcome to the show my friend.
Hi, thank you.
Tom, of course, in, wait a minute, not in the current issue of 2600, were you, you had an
article in the previous issue, is that right?
Yes, previous issue.
And many, many previous issues before that, I think, um, you've been in there maybe more
than I have, certainly earlier than I have, when was your first, first time you were in
2600, 19...
1987.
87, which the magazine started in 84, so...
So, Tom has been around for a long time as well, so this is, is this the old farts version
of the show, or...
This is definitely an old screen.
When I was your age, sonny.
We didn't have computers, we hacked Abacus, wait a minute, Abacai, what's the plural of
Abacus?
I don't know.
Back in our day, the computers were made out of sticks and rocks.
Yeah, and we used to animate things on the cave wall with fire.
Let's see, let's do some quick housekeeping.
Um, as I said kind of at the beginning, we are one episode away from episode number 200.
200 is going to be the end of season four, the official last episode of season four of
the show, and it will be the biggest special episode that we have ever done in the history
of the show.
Four years we've been doing this show.
This will be the biggest in many ways.
It'll be the longest episode that we've ever done.
Um, we have a lot of surprises lined up, some special announcements, special guests, kind
of a walk down memory lane, a bit of a clip show possibly.
So it may take us like a month or more to put all of that together, but trust me when
I tell you this, I don't really say this about the show in advance and pimp it out a lot,
but this episode, number 200, is going to be one that you do not want to miss.
You want to listen to this episode live.
There will be some pretty interesting stuff going on.
However, there's going to be some interesting stuff going on this episode of the show.
So, um, unless you had anything to bring up in the housekeeping section there, Tom, any
announcements of any kind?
Uh, none right now, no.
Okay, well then let's open up the email bag.
And email this week.
Uh, we have quite a bit of it since our last episode of the show.
Some of it directly related to that episode, some to previous episodes, and some that are
just random and bizarre.
Uh, first email this week is from NextGen.
NextGen says, Dear StankDog and Conspirator.
Oh, there's an interesting one.
I don't think I've ever had a, an email labeled to Conspirator.
That would be you.
You're the Conspirator.
Um, NextGen says, I would like to make a suggestion in response to E2's email last week,
198.
Well, actually that was three weeks ago.
But, uh, perhaps a forum where each episode had a dedicated topic so that questions and
comments can be posted for the community without taking up valuable show time on topics discussed,
on topics discussed what seems to be eons ago.
I know this would be valuable for me as often as I either have follow-up questions or comments
on the old episodes which weren't answered later, weren't answered in later episodes, I guess
he means, but are not big enough to warrant their own topic.
So, uh, this email's following up.
Somebody had requested, uh, asked how do they give feedback on old episodes of the show.
There's still people downloading old episodes of the show, even the first year of the show
by the hundreds, still to this day.
So, people are still listening to the old episodes of the show.
Um, yeah, and I had said that basically just go into the hacker media section on the forums
and just open up topics.
There's nothing wrong.
Or opening up in general hacking topics if it's just something.
You don't have to relate it to the show.
If it's just something that the show inspired you and got you thinking about, you can just
go post it anyway.
There's nothing wrong with bringing up old questions or old material because that's the
only way that you're going to learn or follow up or ask questions on it.
So, feel free to do that.
Uh, since you brought it up, to go back to the email here, since you brought it up inadvertently,
I would like to say that FOIP exists.
Uh, however, unfortunately, is not a means of vigilante justice against people who speak
without the proper knowledge of what they are saying, but instead stands for fax over
internet protocol.
FOIP allows machines to send faxes over IP, both hardware machines dedicated to faxing, and
of course, asterisk, and other software solutions.
So, despite what I had hoped for on the last episode, Fist over IP protocol is not going
to be coming soon.
Although, I'd rather have Fist over IP and then faxing over IP.
Why do we even still have fax technology, honestly?
I mean, we have email and attachments.
What do we need faxes for, seriously?
Can you give me a good reason?
It's just one of those old legacy technology things, I suppose.
I mean, is there any valid, I mean, I guess there's people that don't have internet access
and therefore can't do email?
I have heard of these things.
And then there was an asteroid.
I don't, yeah, well, I'm going to take FOIP in the name of Fist over IP so I can punch
people through the interweb.
That's an interesting concept.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
I hereby claim FOIP as my own.
So, fax over internet protocol, you're going to have to come up with something else.
It's so much more valuable of a service, Fist over internet protocol.
If I can punch people through the interweb for being complete dickholes, that would be
so much more valuable than faxing.
I really believe that.
I think the interweb would be a much nicer place.
So, would that be dickholes or dickhole fuckers?
Dickhole fuckers completely.
Well, then Fist over IP could be used in something completely different that, not what I envisioned.
So, oh, that could be, yeah.
Perhaps maybe we should not go there.
Yeah, that one's bad.
I think we might have to rethink FOIP now that you put it that way.
Okay, let's see, let's go back to it.
Fist over IP.
I've heard of websites like this.
Yeah, that goat see.
Well, never mind.
Stop, stop.
Ah, unsee, unsee.
I can't unsee that.
We're going to need some unicorn chasers here.
Okay, let's go back to NextGen's email.
That'll help, hopefully.
He goes on to say,
I've never been to a con personally, but it has been a desire of mine for quite some time,
and your description of the events at DEFCON have made this desire even stronger.
Your description of seeing the two American flags with your father was especially touching.
The phrase, don't tread on me, represents the hacker's mindset and ethic,
as well as it represents the beliefs of the founding fathers in the American nation who believed in freedom and equality.
In closing, what in your mind in the word con is the word con short for?
Conference, convention, or otherwise?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, endless saving time.
I'm going to skip the rest of NextGen's email.
So, yeah, what does con stand for?
Conference, convention, does it matter?
I don't know what it stands for.
I don't know.
I think, well, I mean, the sci-fi fan have always had cons.
I guess it just kind of came over from them since there's a lot of, you know, crossover between the hacking community and the sci-fi fan community.
So it's probably one of those things that was, you know, borrowed a long time ago.
Well, I don't, I'm not sure if I know or if there really is a difference between conference and convention.
A convention, isn't that more of like a bunch of booths and propaganda handed to people and free glowing yo-yos and crap like that?
Isn't that what a convention is and a conference is more of presentations and information sharing?
Maybe that's, so I would think, well, there's a little of both, so.
Yeah.
I mean, you've got to have swag, so.
Exactly.
You know what, luckily enough, they both begin with CON, so it's a moot point.
Yeah.
Okay, so let's see, what kind of email do we have?
I want to try to read as quickly as I can so we can get to this main topic.
Email number two comes from Alpha Hacker, who says,
Hello, Mr. Dog, I was reading Dig today.
Well, sorry about that, Alpha Hacker, can't help you there.
When I came across this article, and he gives this long URL, I'm not going to repeat here,
which says, Scott, I guess it's S-K-0-T, I guess it's Scott or Scote?
Scott.
Scoot.
I'm going with Scott because it's easiest to pronounce.
An ex-administrator of the Elite Torrent's BitTorrent Tracker is to have his internet connection forcibly monitored by the U.S. government.
If that wasn't bad enough, the monitoring software is Windows-based, which means he is being forced to ditch Linux or face being barred from the internet.
And I think this is a quote from somebody at Dig, I guess.
I'm not, this email's kind of crunky here.
Is that a word, crunky?
It's kind of crunked up here.
Crunky?
Yeah, it says, I think, okay, I guess, I think this is a user's response on Dig, who says, I think this is fucking bullshit.
Whatever the fuck happened to privacy, also force him to use Windows as just fucking insane, dot, dot, dot.
That's just so fucking retarded, dot, dot, dot.
That's a retarded with a T.
This just makes me so fucking angry, dot, dot, dot.
What's a retard?
Is that some form of, like, exotic pastry?
I was wondering if maybe he was saying that he restarted and he just left off the S.
I'm not really sure.
Well, I mean, if you're using Windows, you're doing an awful lot of restarting.
Speaking of pastry, there is Goatsy Cookies, but we won't go there.
Do a Google image search for that if you want to really see how far people go.
Yeah, so bullshit.
I don't know if that's, like, a Freudian slip or a typo, like Bill Gates, Windows, I don't know.
But, you know, I think, let's see.
I'm not sure if I should turn you loose on this first or not.
Let's see.
All right, let me set the foundation and then let's see if you agree or disagree with me.
Because, to me, you know, honestly, yeah, sure, it may suck to use Windows.
I'm not a big anti-Windows guy.
I mean, everything has its flaws and positives and negatives, whatever.
So it kind of might suck to use Windows.
But don't forget that this person pled guilty to two counts of copyright violation.
Now, I don't know the back story to that, you know.
I don't know all the details of it.
And we could get into a whole debate, soapbox, about copyright discussion.
But I think we've beaten that horse to death on the show many times.
So in lieu of time, I just wanted to point out that he has pled guilty to a crime.
So because of that, you do have a loss of privacy.
It's just kind of innate.
It goes with that, unfortunately.
And when you're on probation and everything that that entails, that means you have to do what they tell you to do.
And if that means you're using Windows and their shitty software, so be it.
I mean, you got busted for piracy.
This guy, if I remember correctly, released Star Wars Episode III like a week or two before it came out in the theaters.
I mean, again, without going into the detail of right, wrong, and what, you know, justifies or piracy.
And without going into all those details, you know, you play the game, you take your chances, and you got busted.
So deal with the repercussions.
How do you feel?
Here's my view on it, okay?
Now, as much as I do believe in the power of the penguin, and let's face it, I mean, when it comes to a lot of things, open source software is the future.
And I would, you know, recommend anyone who's getting into computers to actually go the Linux or BSD route as opposed to going the Windows route, you know, from a prospect of learning about hacking.
There's this little thing that's called the real world.
And now I work in the electronics industry in real life, and, well, my workbox happens to be Windows XP.
Why?
Because all the software I need to use is Windows-based.
So, I mean, you know, you use whatever works, and, well, it's not my first choice.
Well, it's not my laptop.
It works.
So, you know, Windows, I mean, Windows, Linux, I mean, they both have different, you know, purposes.
Right.
Granted, the Linux software generally works a lot better than Windows, but that's a, you know, a whole other topic of discussion.
Right.
Now, I'm not exactly familiar with this case, but, you know, if the guy pled guilty to copyright violations in that terms of his, you know, probation, well, you know, like you said, you know, you do the deal and you take your chances, and, you know, that's basically it.
I mean, they've, you know, there have been people, they've, you know, locked up for copyright violation in certain cases, so maybe he should consider himself, you know, lucky on that regard.
But, you know, you do the crime and you take your chances is what it comes down to.
Right.
Yeah, and, you know, he, I'm sure, you know, that was a plea bargain, I'm sure he went through the process and came out to his pleading guilty and getting six months or whatever it was he got from it.
Again, I briefly saw this in the news when it came up, but, you know, you pay the crime, you do the time.
I mean, as far as, you know, the whole software piracy thing goes...
Well, this was movie piracy, I think, to be honest, to be fair. It's a movie piracy, so I don't know if you differentiate that in your mind. Some people do.
I mean, you know, as far as, you know, pirating, you know, movies or whatever, you know, perhaps, I mean, that's an entire whole new political thing, you know, involving the, you know, what's that, MPAA or RIAA.
Right.
Whatever that media group that, what's his name, Valenti, used to be a part of.
Yeah, that's the MPAA.
You know, I mean, I've taken a look at some of the, you know, trailers for some of the, you know, modern movies out there, and in my personal opinion, they're pretty much all trash, so.
Yeah, and, you know, but does that, well, yeah, we could go into a whole other thing, and I guess the question people have to ask is, does that justify pirating the movie in your mind?
And every individual person could have a different answer, so that's up to them, and this guy obviously thought it was worth it, and yeah, you play the game, you take your chances.
He got busted.
A lot of people certainly don't, but if you do get busted, you're going to pay the consequences, so being forced to use Windows, I don't know why that justifies a big indignant response on Dig.
I mean, he's paid, you know, you have to serve your punishment.
People see, see, this is a, this is a, I don't even think this is a hacking thing, to be honest with you.
I think it's just a, I don't know if it's an American thing or just a human nature thing, the human race.
Somehow, in the last, gosh, probably my lifetime, frankly, in the last 20 to 30 years, humans, people seem to think that they don't have to deal with the repercussions of their actions.
They feel like they can get away with anything, and then come back like nothing ever happened.
I mean, I've dealt with that in the forum several times, again, lately, from the same people that come back over and over again.
And, you know, guess what? You break the rules, you break the law, you offend people, you treat people a certain way.
You've got to realize that there's repercussions to every action out there, and you have to deal with them.
And sometimes you can overcome them, sometimes you can, you know, work out compromise, work out something.
But reality is what, you know, I don't know where I'm going with this.
People just don't seem to realize that you have to answer for yourself at some point in time.
I agree with you in that regard, but as far as the entire, you know, copyright media thing and how a lot of that, you know, stuff,
especially with fair use has been, you know, changed around and now codified into federal law, I mean, that becomes a, you know, a legislative thing.
And I guess if enough people feel, you know, strongly enough about it, well, maybe they should contact their legislatures and, you know, push it that way if they really feel strongly about it.
But apparently not enough people feel strongly enough about it to actually go and do something about it.
Towards that end, as much as, you know, despite the fact that, in my opinion, most actors out there are a bunch of talentless hacks,
they still have a job to do and, you know, they're entitled to get paid for it as well as the movie producers are entitled to get paid, you know, for their efforts.
So, I mean, they deserve compensation just as, you know, you and I deserve to be compensated for, you know, what we do for a living.
Right, even though they get ridiculous amounts of compensation for what they do, but I guess that's, again, it's my opinion.
Whether or not they're overpaid or not is an entire topic, you know, we could discuss that for, you know, for a whole episode.
So, you and I are going to have to do, like, 20 shows, you know that, right?
What?
You and I are going to have to do, like, 20 shows to cover all the stuff that we want to talk about.
But, I mean, I think it's any reasonable and rational person would, you know, would agree that they're at least entitled to, you know, be compensated for their, you know, for their work that they do.
Right.
Of course, they might be overpaid and I might not disagree with that, but...
But, right, but that doesn't justify it.
The laws are what they are.
We have to live within them or work around them.
So, yeah, I think we can probably back off of that.
Yeah, that's, you know, that's more of a debate and opinion thing.
So, I don't know that there's anything more we can say about it.
I did want to throw out there, though, I mean, Decoder, you know, my good friend Decoder up there in New York, he had these same restrictions put on him two years ago.
They did the same things.
One of the first things he did when he got out was they put it on his probation.
He had to take his laptop to the PO.
So, he kept it to install that software or whatever.
I don't know what the name of it is.
I don't remember the name of it, I should say.
And, you know, what, almost two years ago now?
So, Decoder's been putting up with the same thing and nobody was all indignant about that.
But, anyway, he actually understands and realizes, guess what, it's part of the punishment.
He doesn't like it.
But, he's not really good with computers anyway, so I didn't hurt him too awful much.
But, he had to go through the same thing.
And, I have to pass on a note to you, Tom, that Decoder told me specifically to tell you, I talked to him before we started recording, to thank you for the naked chicks and payphones section on the IIRG website.
Well, I'm not responsible for that page.
Well, you can pass that on to whoever.
However, I will definitely pass that along to a mercenary who's, that's part of his page.
And, I'm sure he would say, you know, you're welcome.
Okay, all right, well.
That's actually, you know, one of the things that makes the IIRG unique amongst hacker organizations.
That and the fact that, you know, their website has real information on it.
Yeah, there's, funny that we're coming out of dig.com and you say that.
But, I won't go, I won't even go there.
I already went there.
All right, next email, let me try to save myself here.
Next email comes from Current Resident.
Current Resident says, hi, I've been listening to BinRev Radio Show for about two years and noticed that the file size of the show is about 14 megs.
I'd like for you to describe the process of recording the radio show and compressing the file to that 14 meg size.
Thanks for all the information you provide on the show.
Okay, resident.
That's actually just really too long to discuss and we have done it on multiple occasions.
Believe it or not, you can go all the way back to episode number seven back in 2003, which sounds really old.
Sounds like it's, you know, things have probably changed since then.
But, no.
That's actually still how we do the show and we go into a lot of the detail there.
Talk about how we encode the show and file sizes and stuff and why we made some of the decisions we did.
Frankly, you know, human speech is not that detailed and we could record it, excuse me, encode it, I should say, even smaller.
Because the human ear can't hear extreme ranges and sound would sound, human voice would sound just as fine even in smaller compression.
But, because I have the closing music on the show, then I'm trying to, you know, get some independent artists some listening time out there and I want to do it justice.
I kind of keep a fairly high bit rate so that the opening and closing music have a little bit better quality.
So, we could actually get it even smaller than that.
I think most hour-long shows probably can be brought down to easily three or four meg, probably more, if you really wanted to squeeze some quality out of it.
But, yeah, go back to episode seven and just listen to that and it's entirely.
And even back to Radio Freak America, I couldn't tell you what episode offhand without looking, but even back on RFA, we did an episode about how we did that show.
And that's pretty much the same thing we were doing with BinRev, although with a different format.
Let's see, next email comes from Katie.
Katie says, I've heard many things about me, but I've never been referred to as a beaten dead horse, LOL.
I'm not sure what that refers to, but maybe that's my senility and talking in my old age.
I've just started listening to BinRev and listening is all I'll probably ever do.
Well, and write an email, which she obviously did.
I don't have time for much else, nor the tolerance for the sexism I find in most hacker...
Odor communities?
Does that say odor communities? Am I misreading that? O-D-E-R.
Okay, I'm not sure what that...
She might have been referring to coder.
Coder or older or...
Okay, let's go with hacker coder communities, red boys clubs.
When I listen to your show and that you do aim to keep it clean, yeah, kind of, but then we end up talking about dickhole fucking.
So, it's kind of like, what are you going to do?
It's like, sometimes I'll try, but you know what, I'm also not going to censor myself, so...
I was told that, you know, Binary Revolution was the official home of dickhole fucking.
It is the official home of dickhole fucking, I am sad to say.
Oh, my goodness.
That will be our claim to fame down through the years.
That will be the only thing that sticks out of BinRev.
You guys will never be able to live that down.
I know, but it's so funny, though, right?
It's so good.
Oh, what a great story.
Anyway, back to Katie's email.
I doubt I'm your only female listener, just the only girl brave or stupid enough to speak up.
But hi, and keep up your awesome show.
Hey, any chance TWAT, that's Today with a Techie Radio, will ever change its shiver cover art?
Take care.
Well, Katie, funny that you mention TWAT Radio.
I tend to agree with you on that unfortunate name.
It was intended to be a joke off of TWIT Radio over with the Kevin Rose.
And what is that guy from TWIT Radio?
Oh, my gosh, I can't think of that.
Leo Laporte, right?
And those gang over there.
So it was meant to be kind of a joke, a play off of them.
But, yes, you mentioned some changing the cover art.
Well, just keep watching and listening for news about that topic coming very soon.
And, yes, actually, I think you might be the only female listener of the show, or at least one of a very small handful.
If they're out there, they don't write in.
So you're it.
You're the representative.
So, yeah.
I put a poll to the listeners one time of if there are any female listeners out there that I'd love to hear them, you know, email and just let me know that they're out there and that there is some representation.
And, yeah, I got nothing.
So, I don't know.
Do you want to – I'm kind of interested in that, though.
I mean, I don't know that we've ever really talked about it in any detail.
I think it's kind of interesting the lack of females in the community.
And I'm sure – I know that you have some input on this.
I know that you know some people.
But, I mean, do you feel that females are any less welcome in the hacking scene?
I hate that word, the hacking scene.
Do you think they're any less welcome than anyone else?
Do you think it's hard for women or females to get into the hacking circle, so to speak?
I actually think that the difficulty – I know more than a few female hackers who are very, very good at what they do.
And I think that the apparent difficulty of female hackers getting into the scene, so to speak, I think is just a generalized reflection of the perceived difficulty that women have getting into the tech field in general.
I think it's a social thing, and it's not a good thing, and that's something that definitely has to be worked on.
However, granted, you know, the hacking scene is, you know, predominantly male, and some of us are a little on the, how do I say, rough side.
But –
Well, and that's actually what I think is more the issue from what I've seen.
I mean, I think it is – I know what you're saying.
There's certainly – because this is outside of the hacking scene.
There's a lower percentage of females in the IT and technical industry.
Workers, from an employee standpoint, there are fewer females in IT than males anyway.
The – I mean, it's – there is, you know, a lower percentage.
And, again, that's probably something that, you know, we'll have to, you know, change along with, you know, society.
Even in this day and age, there is a – you know, an inequality between, you know, men and women on several different levels.
And I think that that problem goes back over millennia, you know, ever since, you know, using the, you know, the famous, you know, Judeo-Christian mythology, you know, back when, you know, Eve was made from, you know, one of Adam's ribs.
Right. Well, if we really wanted to do a sociological study on it, then, yeah, we could open up a whole can of worms on that.
Oh, we could open up a whole really big old, you know, chunky can of worms.
Well, but I think more applied specifically to the hacking scene.
I mean, what I think is more the problem is – well, let's use this episode, quite frankly.
I don't think that your typical female who is a hacker or wants to be a hacker or is trying to find their place in the scene or find a community of peers,
I probably can understand why they wouldn't find it interesting or fun to hear two guys talk about dickhole fucking on the radio.
So, like, I mean, there's, like – hackers pretty much don't have boundaries by nature.
We don't limit ourselves. We don't censor ourselves. We talk about things.
You know, we use jokes and rude comments and nasty things and trick people into going to Goat Sea and stuff like that.
We use memes and jokes and slang that are offensive to women and probably gays and Canadians and everything else.
I mean, we're equal opportunity across what we – who we insult, I guess.
But do you think – and this is just thinking out loud here – do you think that it's a matter of sensitivity?
I mean, you have to have a kind of a thick skin to be in the hacking scene.
Do you think that maybe by nature they just – they think maybe they're being treated differently or talked to differently when in actuality they're not?
They just perceive it to be? I mean –
That would bring up a good point.
But, I mean, you talk about hackers having a thick skin.
You should have been at a few of – a few IIRIG meetings we've had in the past.
Well, I don't know. It can't be any worse than dickhole fucking and bat wings, which we've discussed on the show and who knows what else.
I mean, hackers can go pretty much and look at anything on 4chan and not be – not even blank.
But, you know, some people can't handle that.
Maybe that's – maybe it's just the nature of men and women.
I – you know what? I'm not a sociologist, so I really don't know.
I do find it interesting and, well, if we had any female listeners who did have a pair – well, wait a minute.
See, I can't even use a phrase like that.
Damn it. See, there's the problem. I'm part of the problem.
I'm trying to be part of the solution here, but I'm part of the problem.
If we have a female listener, they're not even willing to email or write in or stand up or whatever.
And we've had, you know, people in the forums – we've had girls, ladies come to the forum and, you know, been offended because people make crude jokes and comments and stuff like that.
And they don't like it. They get offended by it, and I certainly understand it.
But I would love to have someone come on and co-host with me, a female come on and co-host, and let's talk about it.
And I'd like to hear the other side of it and let other people hear the other side of it.
And, you know, I don't know if it'd make a big change.
Hackers are pretty much set in their way and don't really care what people think, which is another, I don't know, trait that's common amongst hackers and something that I like about them.
Do we need to tiptoe around somebody or sense – I don't know.
I guess let's back off of that because, again, we can go into –
I think there's a fine line that has to be walked between being sensitive and telling the purported, offended person to put on their big kid pants and get over it.
Right, right. And there is a very fine line.
And I guess – well, I don't guess. I know that I don't know where that line is.
I guess I try, but, yeah, I just trip right across that line all the time, I'm sure.
Probably about six or seven times so far this episode.
Yeah, we're completely and totally incorrigible.
Yeah, I fell across the line and I grabbed you and drug you down with me.
Oh, boy.
Well, let's continue to lower property value with our next email here from DeepGeek.
DeepGeek says,
I recently discovered BitTorrent.
I downloaded several Linux Live CDs faster than a regular download from a server on the Internet.
I think the Internet's like the interweb.
I'm not sure, but I have to look that up after the show.
And I thought, wouldn't it be great to get my favorite Internet – there it goes again – talk shows like this.
Not only would it be fast if it became popular, but it would also save my favorite talk show host some money in the bandwidth department.
Wow, we appreciate that.
I managed to successfully upload a TWA tech at thepiratebay.org and am thrilled at the prospect of facilitating things for Geek Radio.
So I thought I would try this for a while as my favorite shows, which are yours, Lug Radio, and TWA tech, came out.
As I am attributing by referring to the original website and not editing, I figured this was all right under the terms of the Creative Commons license you all use.
I wanted to ask, as it can be considered a, quote, derivative work, could I in the future, if this becomes popular, bundle shows in different ways?
I would like to have, say, a Binary Revolution episodes 1 through 25 torrent out there.
Also, just by having that great lead-out music you chose, having several of those in one torrent would be smashing.
Could I have an okay smashing?
Who says smashing in a sentence?
Where the hell did that come from?
I'm going to mix that one into my vocabulary.
Wouldn't that be smashing, Tom?
Oh, indubitably.
Could I have an okay on this idea from you?
Would you know who I would contact at twatech.org for similar permission?
Well, Deep Geek, you are in luck because I can give you all the permission you need.
You can do whatever you want with VRR and TWA tech radio.
BinRev and TWA tech, both under Creative Commons.
I did speak to Enigma, who runs TWA Tech, and we both agree that, you know, that's the reason we have Creative Commons license,
is we give you permission.
You can do anything along those lines on the show, distribute them however you want, that's fine.
The only reason we have the limited restriction is the only thing we say is don't edit the show out and put your name in front of it and claim that's you.
You know, don't steal credit and try to say this is the whoever show and start playing it as though it were your own.
And the other thing is don't make money from them.
We don't charge for the show.
We make them all free to download.
We want to keep that up.
So don't collect them onto CDs and try to sell them and make money for them.
We don't.
Neither should you.
So that's the only two things we ever really have if you want to call those restrictions.
I call it simple, common, courtesy, and respect.
But that's why we have Creative Commons license.
So, yes, you have permission for BinRev and TWA Tech.
I cannot speak for Lug Radio, but those guys over there are really great guys.
I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with it as well, but you'll have to contact them over that.
I can only speak for our two shows officially.
Let's see.
How much time?
How are we doing on time?
Okay, I'm going to try to burn through these last emails.
Let's see.
Next one is from Victor.
And, of course, jump in here, Tom, if you have anything.
I don't mean to talk over you.
I'm just trying to go fast through these emails.
So just jump in any time you want.
Next email comes from Victor.
Victor says, Hi, Stank.
After the last email, I think I should explain why I feel that Dig sucks.
So, apart that the idea was actually stolen from Slashdot, which Mr. Rose admits, Dig ended up being a crap website.
And by saying crap, I mean crap.
Wow, that clarifies things.
Does he mean crap in a figurative sense or crap in a literal sense?
I think he means crap is what I mean.
When he says crap, I mean crap.
Is what he's getting at.
That it's crap.
Like a crap website?
It's crap.
That's all I got.
Right now, site is only useful to, quote, kill time while in the office, wasting time in front of a PC instead of doing actual work.
What Dig is not is an actual news source.
Well, of course not.
Because there is so much crap overloaded on it, so you can't actually see the news itself.
And differently from the Slashdot, the Slashdot, it has the shittiest overviews ever, like, quote, you must see this to believe it.
Well, as a quick aside, let me tell you, that happens in our forums all the time.
Myself and our moderating team go through more than most people realize and clean up headlines like, question for you.
And then you have to open it to see what the question is.
So we clean up a lot of that.
I guess Dig does not.
Well, I know Dig doesn't because I see exactly what he's talking about.
Anyway, sorry, back to the email.
And I could go on, but I do know how you like the long, but I do know how you like the long emails.
All I can say is that diggers can do a flash mob where they're – wait a minute.
What does that say?
Where they're all fuck themselves.
Diggers can do a flash mob where they're all fuck themselves.
Okay.
Also, regarding the –
I thought that would be a porn site.
It probably is.
And you've got to be careful with diggers, so you've got to enunciate that D clearly or you could get into a whole other mess of trouble.
Also, regarding the DEF CON show, I would like to ask you and might be your listeners, is there something like DEF CON in Europe?
The only exhibition I know is CBIT, which I – actually, I think Nick 84 went to CBIT one year, if I'm not mistaken.
But there should be something related to hacking security as well.
Anyway, I'll repeat myself again.
Keep up with the good suburb show.
You guys rock.
I will listen to a lot of podcasts.
I do listen to a lot of podcasts while working.
And I must say your show differs from everyone else, that you have something original and you do not talk half the time about something I already read on Slashdot.
Peace.
Well, thank you, Victor.
We purposely try to avoid reading news from Slashdot and Digg and others because, guess what?
We know our listeners can read, so we don't need to read them.
Now, you may not like our opinions sometimes on the show, but that's – you know what?
It's a whole different story.
Anyway, so as far as the DEF CON equivalent in Europe, I know of – that is to say I've heard of – the Chaos Communication Camp.
I've never been to it, but it seems to be a pretty big event from what I hear.
All I can really do is point you to CCC, that's Chaos Communication Camp, or actually Chaos Communications Club, I guess is what that stands for.
Chaos Computer Club.
Chaos Computer Club, right.
Dot DE, because that is a German site, for more information on it.
I wish I could add more to it, but unless, Tom, unless you know anything more about it, I've never been, and all I know is what I've heard.
And it looks – from what I have seen, it looks really cool.
It is actually an outdoors thing.
You go out and camp out.
And I think I heard them saying something about they were different countries represented, so you could go to different areas and meet people all from one country in that area, listening to their type of music.
And, you know, you could learn a lot about the individual countries and people and what their views and stuff on hacking are.
So it sounds like a really cool, cool event, but I really don't have any more insight on it than that.
Have you ever gone to any of these, Tom, or do you know anybody that has?
I've never been to any of the Eurocons, although I hear they are very good, so.
Yeah, and it's pretty big from what I understand, too.
It's not a small thing.
I think it's a big conference.
Well, I'm curious now as to what kind of numbers I might have on.
I guess if I were a good show host, I would have looked that up beforehand, but I suck at this.
So I guess I have to move on to another email.
Email, ah, speaking of Europe, email is from Jay from Norway.
Well, yeah.
Jay says, hi, I'm just loving the telephonic craptacular shows and the regular bin rev shows.
They were awesome.
I was going to download the other telephonic craptacular shows from Freak Factor, but the shows would not download.
And now I can't even enter the site.
I listen to the regular show, bin rev, some on and off.
I laugh my ass off every time you get off at something that is not the way it should be.
Like the internet access service that just let you know that you can't have internet access.
And the story about the cat that phoned the police.
Man, that was some funny shit.
See, I don't even remember these.
I am getting old and senile because I just don't remember.
More stories like that.
One other thing on the first telephonic craptacular show, that ringtone that you had on your phone, where can I get that?
That was cool.
Yeah, I don't know that either.
You're doing a great show, Stank Dog, Keep Up the Good Work, and Get the Freak Factor Back to Work.
Jay from Norway.
So, A, fucking Norway.
How cool is it to get an email from Norway for crying out loud?
That is so cool.
Over the years...
The land of the ice and snow.
The midnight sun where the harsh winds blow.
What the hell is that from?
Oh, come on.
You're old enough to know Led Zeppelin.
Oh, is that...
Hmm.
I can't say that I...
First thing that jumped into my head.
Immigrant's gone.
Yeah, it just...
It didn't pop into my head until you mentioned it.
Yeah, I guess I...
Man, I missed on that one.
You really must be getting senile.
I guess so, man.
I don't know.
Maybe it's too late.
Maybe it's the heat down here in Florida.
Isn't it just amazing that we get emails from, like, from Norway.
We've gotten them from Africa, Australia, troops in Iraq, and just you name the countries.
We've gotten emails from them over the four years we've been doing the show.
I regret it now.
I always wanted to do this, and I regret it now that I didn't, like, record everywhere we've got one.
I guess I could go back and find all the emails from all the different countries and, like, note them on a map somewhere and see what's represented,
how far this little pissant show that I do every week that I started just for the fun of it with Dual Parallel and Wintermute and I,
just because we wanted to have fun and talk about hacking,
out of this little home office here in my little 11 by 11 room here in Florida,
and there's somebody in Norway listening to it.
That continuously amazes me, and I don't think it'll ever get old.
I really don't.
I think that's amazing.
I love the interweb.
As far as Freak Factor, you know, maybe you can help me with this, Tom.
I keep yelling at Not Theory about this, but he's too busy out there making the green, you know,
bringing in that paycheck that he hasn't got Freak Factor back up and running again.
And we talked about it a few months or a few episodes ago.
Well, it probably was a few months ago.
Somebody else asking about Freak Factor.
Freak Factor is the funniest thing, and Not Theory and I joke about this all the time.
People hated Freak Factor.
Oh, they called it the Special Olympics of Hacker Radio, I think somebody called it once.
I think Jason Scott, as a matter of fact, called it that.
Or Mensa for Retards, I think you call it.
I mean, everybody hated the show, but at the same time, everybody is dying to have the show come back.
It's the funniest thing.
It must be like that kind of thing where everyone has to stop and look when they pass a car wreck.
Yeah, exactly.
But you know what?
I always loved it.
I thought it was hilarious because it was so random and chaotic and such a clusterfuck.
I always loved that about it.
I've actually never listened to it.
You know, we build it from the get-go.
The world's first reality radio show.
It was just a conference that we streamed.
That was it.
That's the whole premise.
Whatever happens, happens.
So we would plan a few...
Yeah, throw in a couple of McDonald's and 7-Elevens in the loop and call it good.
Yeah, really.
No, you know what they did is they called Walmart intercoms.
I'll try to get on the intercoms all the time.
That was the running joke.
It sounds like the old 0700-456-1000 Alliance teleconferences we used to do back in the day.
And that's what the premise of the show was to, like, all the fun and all the stuff that would go on on conferences like that.
Let's stream it.
Let people listen to it.
We didn't even start recording it at first because we didn't think anybody would want to listen to it on repeat or on an MP3.
We just did it because people can take part in it and have a conference call and that's it.
But people wanted to download it afterwards and then they still hated it but they wanted us to make it available in MP3 format and then they wanted show notes and all this other stuff.
All right.
Well, look.
Anyway, we talked about this a while back and I told everybody if you want it back, you've got to email Knot Theory.
And I talked to Knot Theory.
He said he never got a single email.
So, I don't know what the hell you people are doing or what you want.
If you really want it back, the only thing you can do to get Freak Factor back, email him in theory at bellsmind.net.
I think that's email.
Email him.
Tell him to get on the ball.
Get on the stick.
You want your Freak Factor.
Tell him, I hate Freak Factor.
When will it be back?
That's what you should tell him.
I don't know.
That's all I can tell you.
The guy's out there making the money so I can understand that.
Trying to pad his pockets a little bit.
So, and Freak Factor, see, we had problems with Freak Factor with bandwidth issues.
That's the other thing.
Bandwidth, not from the, you know, we're fine on hosting bandwidth and stuff.
But you got all those concurrent calls at the same time and going over voice over IP.
That's a lot of channels and a lot of bandwidth getting eaten up.
And that's been the biggest thing that slows it down.
But Knot Theory can come up with a solution.
He's like a super ninja.
So, he'll figure something out.
Yeah, he has serious heavy-duty Freak Ninja skills.
Are you kidding?
He's like the master.
He's like the bald master at the top of the mountain.
Anyway, last email.
Last time I saw him, he wasn't looking too bald.
No, yeah, yeah, yeah, true.
Well, I was going to say you should have seen him back in the day.
But you did see him back in the day.
Anyway, before we drop any docs on Knot Theory,
let's move our last email so we can get into the main topic.
The last email comes from Martin.
I think that was a real name and I'm just going to put Martin.
Martin says,
Arrgh, insert favorite swear word here.
Um, I'm going to go with dickhole fucker.
Arrgh, dickhole fucker.
Stop using these damn tiny URL links, exclamation point.
They are totally dumb, exclamation point.
Try linkpot instead.
Tiny URL, but the links consisting of words instead of letters and numbers.
Much better.
Perfect for verbal communication.
www.linkpot.net.
That's L-I-N-K-P-O-T dot net.
Keep up the good work.
I've not decided if it's good or not.
Excuse me.
Keep up the work.
I've not decided if it's good or not.
Well, first of all, thanks for the link.
I like that.
And I like it so much that's going to be our site of the week for this week.
I'll remind everybody of that again at the end of the show.
But, yes, I like the site.
Thank you very much for that.
As far as the show, yeah, it's not good.
Take my word for it.
Move on.
Yeah, it sucks.
Yeah, exactly.
And, speaking of sucks, how's that for a segue?
We're going to move right into this sucky topic.
Actually, no, seriously, I really had to do a lot of research on this topic.
And our topic tonight is, well, I was referring to it as just easy pass systems.
But Tom's going to explain to us that there's actually some proper terminology for what we're going to talk about.
And I spent the last, like, two weeks researching this because I did not know much about it.
And I had heard a lot of things from other people, you know.
I heard that it uses this.
I heard it's based on that.
I heard that this works, that works, blah, blah.
So I had to do research and verify stuff on my own.
And I guess the best way to approach this is, let's see, we've got about 30 to 35 minutes to cover this.
So I'll quickly explain the basics of what an easy pass is.
Or here in Florida we have it.
It's called a sun pass.
And what it is, and I'll make this very quick, the basics of what this device is.
Because I know a lot of our listeners are in places that don't have toll roads or nowhere near a highway.
Or hell, some probably can't even drive.
Whatever.
But basically what these are is it's a device that you put in the windshield of your car.
And we'll elaborate later.
But it's something you put in the windshield of your car.
New York, New Jersey has easy pass, which you're familiar with, sun pass.
California has something called fast track.
And there's probably a bunch of others.
And what it is, is you put a certain amount of money into an account that is used for tolls.
And that money is tied to the unique device that you have purchased.
You give them a credit card or a bank account so that they'll automatically refill that when it runs low.
Now, there's some privacy issues there we'll probably touch on later.
But there's going to be some prepaid versions that are going to be coming out at least here in Florida.
So if we have time, we might talk about those as well.
And then the third part to complete this cycle is that when you drive through a toll road, and even if you don't have them, you know what we're talking about with a toll road, it's going to deduct whatever the toll amount is from your account as you drive through the tolls.
So you don't have to stop and throw coins into a slot or hand money to a human person that's going to count out change or any of that kind of stuff.
You can drive through, and electronically, it will deduct whatever the amount is, sometimes with a discount as an incentive to make you use that.
It helps speed up traffic, saves a lot of money for them because they don't have to hire employees, et cetera, et cetera.
Now, again, I'm trying not to go too far off on this either, but the whole point was it was going to save a lot of money because you don't have payroll, as much payroll.
You don't have as many employees.
But in actuality, it's been found that the tolls not only don't go down, but there was a study by Ann Finkelstein from MIT, Finkelstein, Finkelstein, and I'll put the link to this up in the show notes,
that shows that fees are actually gone up 20% to 40% in areas with electronic tolls, which should be going way down.
So I'll put a link up to that in the show notes, so I won't try not to go too much into that unless we have time later.
Let's focus on the technological aspect of this.
Now, I went through that really quick, Tom, so why don't you fill in some blanks here because I didn't put any terminology in there.
I just described the process, but there are some terms that people probably should be aware of.
Okay. Yes, there are.
Now, for starters, everything, it's all this stuff, all this electronics that you're seeing on highways,
whether it's toll collectors or any other type of infrastructure,
it all comes under the umbrella term of ITS, Intelligent Transportation Systems.
And in a nutshell, back during the Clinton administration, a law was passed regarding the modernization of highways
and basically adding all these sensors and stuff to it, it actually even goes back further into something called critical infrastructure.
And that's all under the catch-all term of ITS, Intelligent Transportation Systems.
Now, the part of Intelligent Transportation Systems that has to deal with the E-Z-Pass is E-T-T-M,
which stands for Electronic Toll and Traffic Management.
And so not only is there toll collecting done with the E-T-T-M, but there's also management of the vehicular traffic.
Now, that is done on the business end of that, which is your E-Z-Pass transponder, is referred to as A-V-I, Automatic Vehicle Identification.
And essentially, that's, you know, your E-Z-Pass is essentially a miniature transponder.
It has a unique ID in it, and when it hits, you know, a reader, the, you know, the transponder pings back and, you know, generates your ID.
Once you, you know, once that ID is received by the reader on the highway, it's then, you know, cross-referenced via a database, you know, for the intent of this show,
the database would happen to be the, you know, the toll collection database where your account is linked so it can, you know, deduct the money from your, you know, toll collection account fund.
Right, and that, you know, that is kind of the back end of the system, if you will, as most databases are.
That's the back end, and it's definitely difficult to find information on that.
I'm certain it's a proprietary database system of some kind.
How do you think we should, I think the best way to approach this maybe would be to kind of walk through the process on very small steps,
very small details, and kind of explain it as we go through.
Does that sound like a good approach?
Sure.
The, most of the information I'm getting from actually came from the FCC, a wireless telecommunication, FCC ID database.
Anything in this country, in the United States, that is, that generates RF energy has to be approved by the FCC before it can be marketed,
and it's given an FCC ID.
Back, now, the last time I did any research on the EZPass was back in the late 90s.
When I did that article for 2600 magazine, and we acquired the FCC IDs off of it, and using the FCC IDs, we could go on the FCC database
and, you know, pull a whole lot of information regarding on how the system works.
Now, keep in mind that this is public information, but it only deals with the electronic and electromagnetic aspects of the system.
And that's actually an open standard at this point, which you can download, and we'll get into that, you know, later on in the show.
So, but essentially what you have is, you have your transponder that is mounted on your vehicle windshield,
and then you have a reader.
And the reader has eight RF modules on it, each that have an antenna attached to it.
So, basically, up to eight antennas can be serviced by a single reader via the RF modules.
Well, before we go to those, what about the actual device itself inside of the car, the thing that people are purchasing, the RF transponder?
Well, the transponder is basically a transmitter that operates on 915 megahertz, which is smart smack dab in the middle of the 902 to 928 license-free
and industrial and scientific and medical devices band.
Interestingly enough, if you do a search from 902 to 928 megahertz in a particular state that service is easy past,
you will get a listing of all the locations of the transponders, not the transponders, of the readers,
because the readers are actually transmitters, and they have to be, you know, licensed by the FCC.
Interesting.
And, basically, the way it works is the reader sends out a 915 megahertz signal that has a data stream,
and the data stream, you know, it is a certain data format, which is an open standard,
and basically what it does is the reader sends out this data stream.
I'm sorry, the open standard you mentioned, that can be looked up by looking up that FCC?
No, actually, we'll go into the standard a little bit.
Back when this stuff first came out, California, being the unique state that they are,
which has to pass laws on everything, actually developed a standard for AVI systems.
And that standard can be found in California Code of Regulations Title 21.
And if you do, if you jump up on the California Code of Regulations website and you look for,
you know, Title 21, you will actually find it.
And it's actually rather, and it has the entire, you know, specifications for, you know, the readers on there.
California said, if you want our money, this is the standards that you have to meet,
and they published it, and the companies had to abide by those.
Yep.
And I can tell you right off the top, just reading the specs right out of California Title 21,
it's very interesting about Title 21, as big as it is, the first standard.
It has basically become a de facto and now an open standard.
And, of course, if a company wants to do business with California,
which is one of the biggest and most populated states in the union,
they have to be Title 21 compliant.
So it's easier for them to do that,
and then everyone else just falls in line and uses California Title 21 compliant systems.
And getting a little technical here,
the transponder specifications use modulated backscatter technology.
Transponder antenna polarization is horizontal.
Field of view is operation within a 90-degree conical angle from the front of the vehicle.
Carrier frequency is 915 plus or minus 13 megahertz, subject to FCC assignment.
It uses subcarrier AM carrier modulation with a frequency shift keyed subcarrier.
The subcarrier frequencies are 600 kilohertz plus or minus 10 percent
and 1,200 kilohertz plus or minus 10 percent at 300 kilobits per second.
Wow. Okay.
The reader specifications, the trigger signal is 33 microseconds of unmodulated RF at 915 plus or minus 13 megahertz.
Carrier modulation is unipolar ASK, Manchester encoded, at 300 kilobit.
And the field strength at the transponder antenna has to be a minimum of 500 millivolts per meter.
And that is straight out of California Title 21, which you can download off the Internet.
Now, let's translate a lot of that for people like, oh, I don't know, me, who aren't up to speed on a lot of that stuff.
That's basically dictating a lot of things like the power and the range of these to make sure.
That's also the specifications of the data stream.
Basically, when it comes to reading the data that comes off these transponders, Title 21, for an individual who is knowledgeable in electronics
and, you know, electronic communication, Title 21 pretty much gives the candy store away.
Right.
And since I had access to the Mark IV Industries transponder, which is the transponder of choice for the New York State Thru-Aids EasyPass system,
the generic model number is the Flat Pack transponder FPT-2000 from Mark IV Industries.
And the specs I have date back to 2001, and essentially they are a duplicate of the Title 21 specs.
Well, there's no point in reinventing the wheel for other states.
If California has already set the standards, set the precedents, then as a business standpoint, as a business person,
yeah, you might as well just use that for the other states as well.
So it has become a pretty normal standard throughout all of these systems in all of these states.
And essentially, you know, the way the system works is actually, you know, fairly simple.
That reader is, you know, sending out this wake-up signal.
The transponder detects it, kicks back its ID.
That ID is then sent out over a network to a, you know, host computer of some sort.
And let's make sure we're clear here.
Now, when we say what's listening and what's, you know, the transponder is the device that's sitting in your car.
The transponder is the device that's sitting in your car.
Right.
So as you pull up to the toll plaza, you've got that RF field being emitted from...
The reader.
Well, you've got, yeah, from the reader, which is inside of the lane, the toll lane that you're going through.
Yeah, if you look up.
And that activates this.
If you look up, you'll see this big panel antenna directly above you.
And the transponder then sends a signal back to that antenna with whatever information it's requested.
Yeah.
And that standard of data that's in there is also part of that, not RFC, but what was it?
It's actually a law in California, Title 21.
Title 21, right.
So that's defined there as well.
Yes, and they actually have the definitions for the data codes.
Like there is a 16-bit in the data code.
There's an agency code, which is a 16-bit code that identifies the agency that has the authority to conduct the transaction.
The reader ID number, which uniquely identifies the reader, is a 32-bit field.
The transaction record type code, which identifies the type of transaction between the reader and the transponder, is 16 bits.
And the transponder ID number is actually 32 bits long.
And it's very important to emphasize that that, for obvious reasons, has to be a unique number to every transponder out there.
Yes.
So 32 bits is chosen because there's enough possible combinations, because these things are going to be going on for years and years and years.
People are going to destroy them, need new ones.
And you can't have any possibility of colliding numbers at any point.
Yeah, I'd say it would be quite a – I mean, I'd have to convert the binary to decimal.
But 32 bits is –
Well, it's the whole reason we're switching from 16-bit addressing to 32-bit addressing on IP.
So it's the same concept there.
There's not enough of the 16-bit.
So 32-bit is a lot.
We'll just say it like that.
But important to note that each one is unique to each transponder.
So every car is different.
Every transponder is different.
Yes.
And you also have to remember there's a 16-bit code for the agency that your particular transponder is registered with so that, you know, in addition to that 32-bit field, you know, for the transponder ID, you also have a 16-bit code corresponding to the agency.
All right.
And that's because – I'm going to go out on a limb here, so correct me if this is wrong or where I go wrong.
But because, as it turns out, the nature of California driving a lot of the decisions on this and all the systems being built and designed the same way to save time and resources, obviously, these things, for the most part, can communicate with each other or use the same standards and theoretically could communicate with each other.
Well, if it's Title 21-compliant, it's Title 21-compliant.
Any Title 21-compliant transponder will communicate with a Title 21-compliant reader.
That's why it's an open standard.
And, of course, what that has led to is, you know, reciprocity between different, you know, toll-collecting authorities,
which is why you can take your E-ZPass system, which is assigned in New York, for the thruway,
and use it anywhere from the Mass Pike down to the New York State thruway on all the bridges and tunnels in New York City,
which are not part of the New York State thruway.
They're either part of the New York State Bridge Authority, if they're outside of New York City, or MTA, Metro Transit,
which handles all the bridges and tunnels in New York City proper.
You can put it on the New Jersey Turnpike, which is yet another agency or, you know, business, you know, toll road business agency.
You can use it on the Garden State Parkway, which is something else entirely different,
because the Garden State Parkway and the New Jersey Turnpike are two different, you know, roads.
They're governed by two different agencies.
They can use it down in Maryland, Pennsylvania, on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, on all the toll roads in Maryland,
and I believe as far down south as Virginia, and I'm not too sure if there are any agreements, you know,
with it off the eastern seaboard, but conceivably there could be.
Well, and just to clarify that because all of these are Part 21 compliant, including SunPass here in Florida,
that means that inherently my SunPass, which I actually don't have one,
but SunPass here in Florida could communicate with the device in New York City.
However, they may not necessarily cooperate.
It'll communicate but not cooperate because there's no, what was the word, reciprocity between the two.
They're not cooperating, so it's going to see that mine was assigned by some state, some other company,
some other agency that it does not recognize and therefore can't deduct my money because it's like,
wait a minute, I see the signal that you're sending me, but you're not on the list.
Yeah, well, I actually know someone that ran into a case with that out in Oklahoma.
The individual in question was from New Jersey and went out to Oklahoma for tourist purposes,
and Oklahoma on their toll roads uses a Title 21 compliant system like I'm sure most of the rest of the country does.
And, you know, it basically kickback is invalid because, like I said,
Oklahoma does not have an agreement with, you know, the New York State Thruway Authority.
Right.
So the communication would probably be, it'll probably show up on an error list on the back end somewhere.
It'll be discarded.
And as far as you know, you're, as far as they know, you're somebody who doesn't have an easy pass.
Or Oklahoma doesn't, you don't have one that communicates with them, so.
Yeah, well, what ends up, I mean, from a database, you know, from a database standard, yeah, there'll be an error.
Or what that particular authority decides to do with that, you know, error would be up to their, you know, special operating, you know, standard operating procedures.
They might just ignore it.
Or, being is that a picture is generally taken of a license plate as it's going through the system.
They can always, you know, look up the license plate and, you know, send you your bill in the mail.
Right, and that's most likely what would happen.
Now, and we just kind of ran through that whole process again, but just, let's kind of go back and break it down again.
You're going to be approaching the toll plaza, that handshake, for lack of a better word, is going to take place.
The antenna is going to see the transponder, send some information.
That information is going to be transferred to their central database of whatever agency that you're talking about.
In this case, we're focusing mostly on New York.
It's going to check that database to see if that account has any credit or, I guess, debit, any money on it.
And is in good standing.
And if so, it's going to open the gate or turn on the green light or whatever the case may be so that you can drive on through it.
End of the whole process right there.
Or, if it hits the back-end database and you don't have money on it or you have something knock, some knock against you or whatever, then it may or may not let you drive through.
But even if it does, it's going to take a picture of your license plate, which we didn't mention yet.
You just mentioned it.
Most of these have cameras, very high-quality cameras, that are going to take a picture of your license plate.
And I think I might have neglected the mention up front when I talked about this.
When you buy that transponder, and you have to confirm this for me up there, but down here, you have to actually register the vehicle that you're putting that transponder in.
You have to give them your license plate number, your name and address, and all that stuff.
That works the same up here.
That's how they have to tie it back to somebody.
Otherwise, it's kind of useless.
So, it does get tied back to you.
So, they have your license plate.
They take a picture if you drive through, if you don't have funds.
And, again, every state is going to be different as far as how they respond to it.
As you said, in Oklahoma, they may choose to ignore it.
But what happens here in Florida, and I think this is fairly universal, is it will take the picture, and usually they'll give you one shot where they just give you a warning.
You'll get a thing in the mail saying, we took your picture, you went through here, but you didn't have the funds.
They'll give you one warning, from what I've heard anyway.
And if it happens a second time, basically you're issued a citation for running through the toll without paying.
Yes.
If you have a good, valid reason for it, or that's why they give you the warning, is some people may not realize that, oh, I forgot to change my credit card number you had on file.
Or my checking account didn't have enough balance in it and bounce to check, or whatever the case may be, so that you can fix it.
So that's the normal way it works down here, and it sounds like you're telling me that's the same up there as well.
The anecdotal evidence I've received regarding the system up here is that they're generally pretty, how can I say, liberal with their policies regarding it.
One anecdotal story here involved a guy who I guess actually went through the E-ZPass lanes, sans transponder,
and actually got away with it for about two years before they finally did something to him.
They basically sent him a ticket with a fine, and he got fined something like, I don't know, say $150.
And if I recall, the guy was actually on the news media when this happened, and he basically said that, yeah, he got fined $150,
but he figured by cheating the system, he probably saved about $1,000 in tolls.
Exactly. That's well worth it, $150 for two years.
So he said he was more than willing to pay the $150 fine instead of having to pay the $1,000 in tolls.
But we're not encouraging anyone to go try that. That was probably an anomaly.
Well, you know, I look at toll roads this way.
As long as the money that's being collected in tolls is actually going to maintaining a road, and it actually has a, you know, the road is actually decent.
And up here in New England, we have some roads that are pretty cruddy.
So as long as it's being done to maintain, you know, properly maintain the road system so you have a nice road to, you know, to drive on, that's fine.
If they're going to start taking the tolls and, you know, putting them in some general fund for, you know, state legislature boondoggles or whatever.
Well, as long as we're going this direction, let's take a minute and talk about that because, you know what,
that is kind of a pet peeve of mine.
It's common knowledge.
And I think if you go and research, at least for SunPass in Florida, you go research, they're basically,
if you might have to read through and dig down into the sites to find it, they admit toll roads have been paid for years and years ago, many times over.
The money that they're making is nothing but another tax.
And it's kind of annoying to me and I don't like using toll roads or pay roads because I know that that money is not going to enhance the road.
That money is just another tax going to the government.
However, at the same time, I like the idea of a usage tax in general.
It's not fair to tax everybody and raise our taxes through the city or the state or even the federal government for that matter.
I believe in less government to pay for something that I don't use.
So I like the idea.
Basically, this is the ultimate definition of a usage tax.
If you use it, you're going to pay for it.
Now, they've been paid for multiple times over.
I would think at some point you would have to take the tolls down and say, okay, it's been paid for, so now everybody can use it for free or something.
But I guess it's not quite that easy to do that.
Massachusetts actually took down some of their tolls back in the late 1990s, but they haven't continued on to do it.
But Massachusetts has its own unique problems, if anyone who's listening to this radio show should be familiar with, especially with that thing they call the Big Dig in Boston.
The Big Dig?
What is that?
It's actually a – it was a rerouting of the highway underneath the city over by the tunnels that go out to Logan Airport in Boston.
And apparently the contractor that did it was substandard in his construction.
And after it's been – even though it's a, you know, brand-new construction, it's subject to frequent leaks.
And in one instance, an actual hunk of concrete that was the ceiling fell on a couple of cars at one point.
Oh, that's minor.
That's minor.
You just throw a little spackle and fix that right up.
Yeah.
And get some duct tape.
Yeah.
That's nothing to that.
That's –
Well, I tell you what, we've got about ten minutes maybe.
So let's see here.
Since we're kind of talking about some of the social and maybe bordering on political, privacy implications might be something to bring up too.
Because I have noticed here on the turnpike in Florida and some other payrolls that along the way – like obviously as you drive through the toll booth itself, you know that they're reading and sensing the thing because that's what they're for.
But along the sides of the roads, I see other little readers or antennas along the side of the road that are also detecting, or at least I'm presuming.
Obviously, I don't know what they do because I can't get out and dig them up and try to figure them out, but it's pretty obvious to me that they are checking every so often.
They'll be out in the middle of a pretty much dead area where there's no electronics around.
There's no – you know, it's not like it's a cell tower or any – it's a small thing on the side of the road that I think is watching the transponders.
Have you ever heard anything like that?
Well, there was a rumor, which we did confirm, that if you – now you have to remember, it's been common practice on all toll roads that your time – that the time you enter into the toll road is logged as well as the time you exit the toll road.
Obviously, if you're going, say, you know, 60 miles and you get there in an hour, you've been doing about 60 miles an hour.
And generally speaking, the speed limits on toll roads range anywhere from 55 to 65 here on the East Coast, at least here in the Northeast.
Elsewhere, I think they've gone up to 70.
So if you're doing 60 miles an hour, they're not going to bother you.
However, if all of a sudden you wind up doing that 60 miles in, say, 30 minutes, that means your average speed was 120 miles an hour.
And when you get off the toll road, you will more likely than not find yourself the recipient of a fast driving award.
Yeah, is that the polite term for it?
Yes, fast driving award.
Fast driving award.
Now, this can also be done with, you know, with the AVI systems in a similar manner.
If you have an AVI system at, say, mile marker 3 on a highway and another AVI reader at mile marker 4, it can actually measure your, you know, your time.
And let's say you go between those two markers in the course of 60 seconds while you're doing a mile a minute or 60 miles an hour.
If you go through a little faster, then, well, you know, if you get through in 30 seconds, you're now at that, you know, magic speed of 120 miles an hour.
And poof, the fast driving award shows up in the mail.
Now, when we did the research back in the late 90s on the E-ZPass, we actually, as I said before, all the reader locations are licensed because this thing emits RF energy.
And it emits it at, you know, a pretty good level in order for that thing, you know, to wake up and kick back.
Where they say the signal strength had to be 500 millivolts at the transponder.
So that's a pretty good amount of RF that's coming out of that antenna at you.
That has to be licensed under the appropriate FCC, you know, reg.
And those locations are available on the, you know, FCC, Wireless Telecommunications Bureau website.
We did find back in the, you know, 1990s when we did this article that there were some reader locations
that did not appear to be at an exit.
And actually, if you go and look at some of the project reports that are being used for ITS systems,
they actually even specifically mentioned the use of AVI systems, EasyPass, for monitoring traffic flow.
Now, ostentantly, they'd like you to believe that this is, that that's supposed to enable them to detect
when there's a traffic jam somewhere, when traffic is stopped or slowed down.
But it's one of those, you know, dual-use things.
Obviously, if it can detect when traffic is moving slower than normal, you know,
or particularly when a particular transponder is going slower than normal,
it can also tell when a transponder is going faster than normal.
Right.
So it's very real.
It's absolutely 100% undeniably possible, possible now, that you, let's say you're doing,
not 120, let's say you're doing 80 through the whole trip on a 65 mile mile road.
Doing 80 the whole trip.
You can come up to that final toll road.
You've dodged cops the whole way.
No one's caught you or whatever.
As soon as you go through that toll, not only is there a unique identifier,
but there's obviously a time stamp on there, which is what we're getting at, in case we weren't clear.
And that time stamp, compared to when you left, they can tell how long you were on between those two points
and thereby calculate, they know the distance, obviously, and the times you got on.
They can therefore calculate the speed that you're going.
So you may very well go through that toll road, the final toll.
Yeah, you got money on your account, but that's not an issue.
They've got you clocked, basically, doing above the speed limit.
And they could absolutely start doing that and enforcing that if they really wanted to.
Apparently, the New York State Thruy Authority has been doing that.
Now, again, this research I did was during the 1990s, so they might have passed a law or changed their policy.
But, again, as everyone's aware of, speed limits and speeding tickets are essentially a revenue-generating measure for a state.
Right.
And they generally don't like to give up their revenue generators.
Exactly, exactly.
And also, what about this?
Tell me, and this is definitely a question for you, is that what kind of speed do you think we're talking about on this?
Do you think, let's say, that enough privacy advocates could put some laws on the books that they're not allowed to use this to look for speeders,
to issue ticket citations for speeding or fast driving awards.
Is it possible that they could actually relay information fast enough?
Let's say you go through two checkpoints along the way, and it does detect you're doing 120.
Is it fast enough RF technology and the way these things probably work to relay that information back to the central database system
and then relay that information to an officer that's patrolling that area to have them come look for you?
The technology does exist, and at this point, with the current state of development of ITS systems, it's in place and being implemented.
So, it's entirely possible that they could do that.
So, moral of this is be careful.
I mean, when you start getting into the whole thing of ITS, all right, that starts falling into critical infrastructure protection.
And back in the 90s, there weren't very many people, you know, talking about it.
However, now post-9-11, and since we are coming up on the anniversary, the entire threat of terrorism has enabled them to institute a whole lot of these, you know, surveillance measures under, you know, the catch-all term of homeland security.
Right, and you know what, it's critical infrastructure.
The also very real possibility is that they may have people that they're keeping tabs on, and they can track where they're going at all times based on that transponder.
They can tell where they're traveling.
They can watch somewhere they're going.
There's a lot of privacy implications to this, and I guess we definitely, as we're running out of time here on the show, we probably can't go into that.
But, let's see, a couple things we might want to mention before we close out of here, because we've only got a few minutes left.
First of all, it always comes up when we talk about these tolls of the camera and the license plate as you're leaving.
There's all these tricks and stuff out there of tricking the cameras, blocking it so they can't see your driver's license, et cetera, et cetera.
On episode 196 with Enigma, we talked about a lot of those, and Mythbusters has done a couple episodes of the TV show Mythbusters and proven that they took all of the supposed ways of stopping that, and none of them were remotely successful.
So, don't count on fooling or tricking the system.
Let's see.
Well, back in the, you know, about 15 years ago, I actually had the opportunity to experiment with some of those, you know, license plate recognition systems.
And it was hardly state-of-the-art equipment back then, because it was being used, you know, for a customer of mine.
However, back at that point, we were able to achieve about 80% to 85% accuracy with early 1990s technology.
I would imagine now that they've gotten a lot better with license plate recognition.
And, of course, if you've noticed, a lot of states have been changing their license plate designs to allow for more contrast.
Right, readability.
Yeah, readability, and the only thing I'm going to say with that is, as an experiment, some of our readers may want to flash a near-infrared LED array at their camera while watching it with, or, excuse me, flash a near-infrared LED array at their license plate while watching it with a CCD camera.
It would be very, very interesting.
Of course, we're talking about doing this in a controlled environment, because, at least in the state of Florida, that's specifically listed as an illegal thing to have any kind of light around your license plate.
But we're just talking hypothetically here, theoretically.
Well, I'm not talking putting it on your license plate.
I'm talking when your car is parked in your driveway, take an IRL-ED array and shine it on your license plate and look at the results with a CCD camera.
All right, there we go.
So, let's see, anything else before we close out?
We don't have time and probably would take some more research to go into where that data goes to that back-end database.
Is it encrypted?
How is it transported?
How, who has access to it?
And does it get sent outside of the traffic control system somewhere else?
Do the totals get sent to other places?
How do they communicate with the banks?
Is all that encrypted and safe?
That's, you know, something to think about in question.
Cooperation between systems, we kind of talked about earlier.
Let's see, oh, stolen or lost transponders.
That's kind of important because some people could be driving around using your transponder and it's tied to your account, etc., etc.
And if it's got money on it or it refills automatically from your account, then they're never going to get caught because the camera's never going to take their license plate.
So, you've got to cancel that right away.
That's a very dangerous thing.
And if someone's actually dumb enough to use it at that point, then they will get caught because it'll take a picture of their license plate
unless they've also put a fake license plate on there.
But that's another topic.
And let's see, I've got this little story I can tell here.
Did you have anything else before we kind of close out?
No, I'm good.
There is one Florida trick that I've heard.
Some of the toll roads in Florida, and I'm sure many other states use the old ticketing system.
That is, you enter a toll road and you'll take a ticket, and the ticket has a time stamp on it.
And it says the name of the toll or the name of the exit or on-ramp or whatever where you got that ticket, where on the road you picked it up.
And then when you get to the other end of the road, you hand that ticket to someone who looks at it and says,
okay, you traveled X number of miles or X number of exits, and here's what your appropriate toll charge is, and you pay them.
That's the old school.
That's the analog way to do that.
That's the old original system.
Well, with the SunPass, like we just talked about, that's all computerized, it's all electronic, automated.
Well, there's an interesting little flaw in that.
What happens when these two worlds collide?
Well, again, I've heard, quote, unquote, heard that there was a little bit of a flaw in the system that would allow you to get on that toll road.
As a normal non-SunPass user, you grab a ticket.
All you really had to do here, and the newer models won't allow you to do this because they're completely sealed,
the old models came with a little thing on the back that you could change the battery out.
Well, what you could do is take the battery out of your device.
Also, the devices come with an anti-static bag that you can put it in that will also shield it from being read by the antennas in these systems.
Just the point being, don't let it see your SunPass when you get on so that they don't know where you ever got on.
Just drive through as though you're a normal user and take your ticket and go the analog way.
Keep your system in the bag or keep the battery out of it until you get all the way to your final destination,
and just before you go through that last toll road, then you pop your battery back in or you take it out of your anti-static bag,
and instead of handing in that ticket and paying the full $20 or whatever it is for your journey,
drive through that SunPass lane or the EasyPass lane.
Now, what used to happen, I'm saying this up front, it's already this flaw has been fixed,
but what used to happen is they didn't know where you got on the toll road,
so they couldn't really calculate how much to charge you
because it was very possible that it didn't read your reader when it got on for legitimate reasons.
Maybe there was a packet collision or something, an RF collision in the air, any number of reasons.
So what they would do would charge you the minimum amount instead of the normal $20,
so you get $1.25 for that whole trip instead of paying the $20.
Now, that loophole again has been fixed.
Now, what it actually does is the opposite.
It charges you the maximum amount because it doesn't have an entry point on file,
so they started charging the maximum because what Tom said earlier, they want their money.
It's a source of revenue, so they finally closed that loophole.
And I did some reading about this, and I had never heard of it before.
It was kind of a trick that people used for years, I can carefully say that, before it was fixed.
And actually, that trick came from Mr. Vitek, a good friend of the show.
So I did some reading on it after the fact, and I found out that there's actually a label.
It's a term that's been tied to this.
It's called an orphan exit or an orphan entrance where people are complaining that they're charged the maximum amount
or higher amount because they got on the road to somewhere,
and it was not detected properly when they got on the road.
So, again, be careful of that.
It worked in Florida for many years, but now it charges the maximum, so it could work one way or the other.
You might want to do some experimentation or checking.
But orphan entrance are interesting because when people get on the system but aren't detected leaving the system,
in essence, you're driving for free.
It detects you getting on, but it never knows where you got off.
Now, you've got to be careful with those.
Again, how does that work?
How can that happen?
You have to do a little research on your own.
Go and do a search for orphan entrance and do some reading.
You might find some tricks there.
Again, we're actually over time, but I don't care.
It was a pretty good show, and people will just have to cut the closing music short, I guess.
Is there anything else you wanted to mention?
I know we went kind of fast.
Did we do the topic justice, do you think?
I think so.
I mean, I'm certain.
You can go into a lot of details on how AVI and ETTM systems work.
However, there have been articles that appeared on the Internet.
There was a very, very good overview on some of the more surveillance-related aspects of ITS.
That was in, I believe, either issue 22 or 23 of Fantasy, the IIRG's official newsletter.
I know there was an article in 2600, and I don't have the exact issue, which discussed, you know,
EZPass and the AVI systems.
And there's a host of information.
If you do a Google search on those terms, AVI, ITS, ETTM, you will find a whole bunch of information,
projects that are being worked on, studies of already completed projects.
Yeah, the whole nine yards is up there.
Yeah, the possibility of jamming that frequency and what would happen.
And, yeah, there's a whole lot of stuff we probably could have gone into something on.
But, you know what, we'll leave that for the studious hacker to follow up on on their own.
Do your own research.
I mean, that's the best way to learn.
You know, they haven't changed a lot, though.
Get out there and get your hands dirty, so to speak.
Yeah, and the technology hasn't changed a lot since you had done the research back in the late 90s.
You know, it's still most of it's in place and still the same today.
The government has a tendency.
These large companies, large government agencies have a tendency to grasp on to it.
Well, now it's just called by a different name.
It's called RFID.
Right.
Yeah, it's basically what it is.
Well, I'm actually starting to get the hiccups here at the end of the show,
and I'm out of my cherry Kool-Aid, my beverage of choice this episode, not my sweet iced tea.
So let's close things up here.
I'll go ahead and start shouts and stall for you to think for a little bit.
I'll give my shouts out to Greg Conti this week and Johnny Long again, and to all the agents of the revolution.
Anybody want to give some shouts out to?
Yeah.
I'd like to give a shout out first off to Elijah Craig, who provided a tremendous amount of assistance during this evening's talk.
I'd also like to give a shout out to the IIRG and the Connecticut Survivalist Alliance, to Mercenary, Black Ice, Hank Frost, Binary, and the whole crew there.
I'd like to give a shout out to Not Theory and tell him to get the freak factor back going.
Or we may have to go down there and visit him and put crime-themed tape on his driveway.
Yeah, sounds good.
And I'd also like to give a shout out to all my fellow servicemen who are currently serving overseas.
You guys rock, and I hope you get back home soon.
Yep, and you know what, on this 9-11 anniversary, I wholeheartedly support and say that.
You know, we make it a point on the show, and I know some people think I get corny.
I always, you know, do a thing on Veterans Day, and, you know, this 9-11 anniversary, excuse me, is, you know, it's, I know it may be cliche and whatever,
never forget all that kind of stuff, but really, that's, that changed the world, that changed our world in the United States,
that changed our political landscape, that changed a lot of things in this country, and a lot of people have not been the same since.
So, you know, a lot of people were affected by that, and I certainly will never forget.
And I definitely appreciate the people that are over there fighting and getting involved in things to hopefully make our nation safer.
But, you know what, just the fact that they're out there willing to do it and brave enough to do it, I have nothing but respect for that.
But, and I guess on that sappy note, let's close up, let's see, hosting for Binary Revolution Radio is provided by caro.net.
They've been good to us, and we have a nice, fast server through them, so thanks to them.
Our site of the week, as I mentioned earlier in the email, is linkpot.net.
That's L-I-N-K-P-O-T dot net, and it just works just as it was advertised.
Instead of giving you a random numbers and letters like tiny URL, it generated a word when I tested it, so all letters, and actually it was a dictionary word.
I don't know how many of those it has, but you might have to do some brute forcing and test that.
If you have any feedback of any kind on this week's episode or any episode of the show, you can email us radio at binrev.com,
and I will make sure that Tom from New England here gets it if it's directed at him.
And our closing music this week is from Hormones, featuring MC Frontalot.
It's called Mecca Mechanics, and that is going to do it for this oversized episode of Binary Revolution Radio, episode 199.
Ladies and gentlemen, next week, not next week, probably a month or so, I'll announce it in the forums and all over the site.
Episode number 200 of the show, do not miss it.
I promise you, you will not want to miss the show.
So, but for this week, Tom, thank you for being on the show.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.
And you and I are definitely going to get together and do some other projects and do some follow-up, some other shows and some other things.
But until then, we will tell everybody that we will see them next episode.
Same Hack Time.
Same Hack Channel.
Check your size, McGrath, because here I come.
If political power comes from the barrel of a gun, then I should rule the world.
Simple, really.
Twenty-five stories up, who's going to mess with me?
Plus, my joystick skills are silly.
So, armor, piss, and riles never hit me.
Who shot down Flight 93?
Yeah, that was me.
I fight terrorism when my time is free.
I tell armor always first to beat.
Nina Purpleton lied.
I designed Gundam GPO-2 and GPO-3.
I just thought she was cute, so I let her keep the royalties.
My package is the president's system for missile defense.
Nupia engineers are all my best friends.
Never mind what the gas mileage is.
Giant robot overcompensating for my undersized paychecks.
See me on TV with news life on my chest.
I always told my mom I would make it big.
Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is.
Always told my mom I would make it big.
Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is.
Always told my mom I would make it big.
Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is.
Always told my mom I would make it big.
Yeah, I'm still not, but my robot is.
Yeah, it's unbelievable
To want to see the full scope of the mechanism
Cause you got skilletism, but I promise
Ain't no kind of magic involved
Geared to the piston, problem solved
An automaton walk in stride
Like a city block
Shoulder pop the missile block
It's a lock
Pattern at the target I choose
Clouds on impact
Mushrooms, jets that zooms
And cake treads rolling
These gnats and ants can't disrupt the strolling
Poling the citizens, you want me to stop?
City Hall still staying from Stank's robot
Flank so far, we tighten your muscle
Trying to chisel on the jostle
Let's bustle
Thrust you back in the ocean
Buh-bye
Rocket fist to flip it digit up high
Ha ha ha
I will land on the far side of town
Where the heroes cannot stop me
For they do not know how to get here
But when the smoke cleared
Here I stand in the middle of your city street
Warning tyrants keeping pedestrians up off on my feet
Don't try on vacation, but there's a road beam
Be right, one shot kills only
Sees a future with a zero system
So no trap can hold me
Plus I got nuclear bazookas
For fighting whole armies
I'll be a legend by the time we have space colonies
Shouting Zig Zee
I'm way back in 0073
Throwback like the Zaku and the tall geese
Megazord is like Robin Carter
So look what he taught me
Show up out of nowhere
To save the day
That's all me
I always told my mom I would make it big
Yeah I'm still not for my who I is
Always told my mom I would make it big
Yeah I'm still not for my who I is
Always told my mom I would make it big
Yeah, I'm still not for my what I is
Always told my mom I would make it big
Yeah, I'm still not for my what I is
Always told my mom I would make it big