Get ready to rock the planet.
Get ready.
The Digital Dog Pound presents Binary Revolution Radio.
Now let's go.
Get ready to rock the planet.
Get the planet.
Back the system.
Back this community side.
Get ready to act the planet
Act the planet
Act the system
Act us unite
Get ready
Act the system
Act us unite
Now act the planet
Now act the system
Act us unite
Get ready to act the system
Get ready to act the planet
Act the planet
Get ready
Act the planet
You are listening to binary revolution radio
The revolution will be digitized
Act the planet
This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
To the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary
I speak source code
Step on my toes
I'll post a million
M.J.
the
Angel
Arashi
Convert
Cause I'm riding the net in my 6'4
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll sue you on burning DreamTax
You need some ISO? Let me do my hard drive rifle
Our exchange, you would never stifle
In a digital hood, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caught the fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it night free
You feel that rattle in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ, we just caught on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crew
Serial phone, sword, soul, and I'm so red
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Hello once again everyone and welcome to Binary Revolution Radio
Episode number...
Wow, I think I just made the microphone go ape shit with that little drum roll
But episode number 200 of Binary Revolution Radio
We made it through 200
Okay, well, we made it through 200 episodes
I don't know if they're all solid, good episodes
But we made it to 200
And we're calling this the end of our fourth year here
We missed a few episodes this year for the first time ever
But 200 episodes in, we are going to call this the end of season four
And this episode is actually airing originally on October 30th, 2007
Same hack time, same hack channel as always
And I gotta get that up front for a particular reason tonight
We got a lot of things to talk about
We got a lot of announcements
A lot of closing stuff to talk about in the end of the show as well
And we actually had some trouble naming this episode
Coming up with a title on the archive page
We always put a title for the show that's descriptive of the content of said show
And, you know, we could have gone real easy with this
And just called it season four
Or, you know, anniversary or something like that
But, my co-host to start off the show tonight
Not Theory
Not Theory, you're on the line?
I am here
Kind of
And I'm amazed that we made it to 200 episodes
Even though it took a little longer than four years
Yeah, well, we're going to call it
We're going to call it four years
And pretend that everybody's okay with that
That's cool
But, yeah, actually
We have a very, very, very big announcement on this show
And I'm actually not going to wait until the end
I'm not going to cock-tease you or anything
By the way, this episode is definitely not safe for work
So, sorry about that
If you're hoping for a nice end of season four episode
That's all nice and bunnies and flowers
And Bambi running through the field
That's not going to happen
Nice catch after you say that the show is not going to be a cock-tease
I know
I know, that's nice
I had to catch it
You know what?
There are warnings all over the page and everything anyway
But, the reason I say this episode was kind of tricky to come up with a title for
Is directly related to our announcement that we're going to open up the show with
Some of the titles that we tried to come up with, for example, was
Jump the Shark
I had a brainstorm, I had a list of different things
Jump the Shark
Did BinRev Radio jump the shark?
Are we, you know, do we pull a Fonzie and jump over the shark
And the, wearing the leather jacket and everything or what?
I don't think so
I think we have to go a lot
We have to do a lot of things wrong in order to get that official title
Yeah, we're, well we've done a lot of things wrong, I'm sure
I don't know if we've gone that far yet
You know what?
But we started out doing things wrong and we kept doing them wrong
So it's not like we've changed
We still, still do everything wrong
At least we consistently sucked, is that what you're saying?
I think that's pretty much what I'm trying to get to
Hey, I'm actually changing it up tonight
I do not have my sweet iced tea with me tonight
I had, actually I just finished off an RC Cola
And now I'm having a Yoo-Hoo chocolate drink
So, because actually
This is going to be a very long episode tonight
This episode 200 is actually going to be
It looks like probably five plus hours
Depending on how things go
So I guess we'll see how that shakes out
But ladies and gentlemen
Get comfortable, get some popcorn
Hit pause, go get a drink
Go shake some dew off the lily
Or listen to this in the bathroom
Where you just don't have to get up at all
That'll work too
Won't be the first time
We've recorded them there
So why not listen to them there?
Yeah, we definitely have
As scary as that is
Let's see
How about End of Transmission?
Is that a good name for this episode?
I don't know
I want something more techie
Techie?
Like, you know what?
My favorite right now
My front runner is just No Carrier
No Carrier
I'm kind of with that one too
Yeah, I'm kind of leaning towards that
That, of course, being from the old-fashioned
Well, I guess it's not necessarily old-fashioned
Is it the old modem standard error message?
I don't know
I'd say that's pretty old-fashioned
I don't really know
You know what?
People do still have dial-ups
Right
But those people don't matter in the world
Well, they probably would never see this error anywhere anyway
Because it's also invisible and hidden behind the LOS
And all that other stuff
So
Might not have to
Yeah, I can't imagine
If you're like a dial-up user in the Midwest somewhere
And you've got Vista
That you're going to get a message box
That pops up
That says No Carrier
No Carrier
That's probably some nice rounded corners message
That says
Your internet service provider is hung up on you
Good here
Well, the second
The number two on my list of titles for this episode was EOF
Now, is there enough significance to EOF?
Or is that just the programmers are going to get that?
Or maybe data
It's not even a database thing, really
It's just end of file
I mean, are people going to get that?
Would they get that if we called it show EOF?
Yeah, kind of
End of file doesn't mean like something's gone wrong
And the connection is broken
It could just be the end of file
I think Lost Carrier
Or No Carrier
Makes more sense
Well
End of file
Or the other obvious episode
Title for this episode
Was The End
Question mark
And in case it's not abundantly clear by now
From the names of these titles
Maybe that's a good way to lead into our big announcement
That episode 200 is not only the end of season 4
Of Binary Revolution Radio
But episode number 200
Is the final episode of Binary Revolution Radio
Ladies and gentlemen, this is it
This is all you get
I think by
No!
Come on!
I think after 4 years, 200 episodes
I think BINREV Radio has run its course
I don't know if we've jumped the shark
I don't know if we've sold out
I don't know if we've dropped the ball
Fumbled
Or whatever the case may be
But the bottom line is that
Frankly
It takes so much time to do this show
And we'll probably bring that up
At some point during the show later on
It's going to come into play
But it just takes so much time
And preparation for the show
To get topics
To get guests
To actually record
Edit
And all the other assorted things
That go along with putting together this show
Every week for the past 4 years
Of course lately it's been every 2 or 3 weeks
And that's again
For the same reasons
Getting that time to put the show out regularly
And there just isn't enough of it
And so many other projects have fallen to the wayside
And some of those are going to come back up
In this episode as well
So unfortunately
This is going to be the final episode
Of Binary Revolution Radio
And if you're one of the listeners
Who's hearing this on the stream
Before everybody else
Then you are getting an advanced sneak preview
Of what everybody else will find out
Once this gets added to the podcast
So to those of you who are listening to this live on the stream
We definitely thank you for your support
And appreciate you listening
But even though this is the final episode
Of Binary Revolution Radio
It's not a sad event
We've had a blast during the show
And we're going to have a blast during the show tonight
And what we decided to do with this
Is at the end of season 4
We thought maybe we could do kind of a celebration
Let's look back at what we've done
We've been doing this for 4 years
And we've gone through a lot over that time
And there's a lot of things that have happened
And both good and bad
A lot of things that we've accomplished
A lot of events that have taken place
Over that time frame
4 years is a long time
Especially in interweb terms
So I thought we kind of
You know this was not really a cause for sadness
This was a cause for celebration
And thought maybe we could all celebrate it together
Take a walk down memory lane
And go back
And kind of see what went right
What went wrong
What was funny
What wasn't
And who better to do that with
Than of course
Not Theory joining me
We're going to break this show up
Into three different parts actually
Not Theory is going to open the show with me
As he obviously already has
And we're going to go through
The first couple of seasons
Of Binary Revolution Radio
Do kind of a
What did we say
Director's commentary
Like on the
Yeah kind of like that
If only we had a DVD
Where you could switch back and forth
And we commented on each episode
But I don't think we have enough time
To sit through 200 episodes
And do that
So this is the best we can give you
Well and I myself
I actually still have all of the masters
Of every episode that I've ever recorded
And they're big
Each episode
Each normal length episode
Of about an hour and a half
Takes up
About 1.5 to 2 gigs
Of space
For the raw audio footage
Unedited
Unencoded
Just the actual raw footage
So I have most of the ones
That I've ever recorded
Ratchet and Strom
Recorded theirs through audio
Or excuse me
Through asterisk
Directly to MP3
I don't think that they have
Any intermediary files
That might be of higher quality
But I will check with them
But I guess it's not completely
Out of the question
To maybe put together
A high quality audio
Or high quality collection
On the DVD
But yeah
It'll be like t-shirts
People say they want it
And then no one actually wants them
And I'm stuck with a whole
I'm stuck with a whole box of them
In my garage
Or four boxes of them
But anyway
Oh yeah
How was that
For a little awkward moment
Well there's probably
Going to be quite a few
Of those on the show
Tonight too
But
Not there
He's going to be with me
For the first couple seasons
And then
Part two of the show
We're going to bring
Black Ratchet on
Since he was an integral
Part of seasons
Three and four
Of the show
And then
Get my good friend
Duel Parallel on
To help close the show out
Duel and I
Have been friends
For a long time
Not Theory and I
And Black Ratchet and I
We've all been close
Good friends for a while
And I'm not going to cry
I'm getting verklempt
We can still play
After school
Don't worry
Yeah
No
That's what I'm talking about
But you know what
There's going to be
A couple corny moments here
I'm sorry
I mean it really
You know
I couldn't have done
This show without you guys
I really couldn't
Everybody that's been
On this show
I mean
I've said it before
Nobody wants to hear me
Nobody wants to hear
My redneck ass on here
Talking about
You know
Things that
I don't know
I never even knew
If this show
Would ever take off
To anybody
Me talking about
Hacking and stuff
That I find interesting
And enjoyable
And my definition of hacking
And I never knew
That anybody would listen
To this episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 5
I didn't know
Any of this would last
This long
All I knew is that
The more I did it
The more I enjoyed doing it
The more I learned from it
And the more fun I had
So
Somehow
Here we are
Four years later
With episode 200
So
I guess
I don't know
It definitely was a positive thing
In my life
And I'm glad
That I did it
But
It is time
For me to move on
So
I don't know
Obviously
Because this is
The last episode
Of the show
And this is
Kind of a celebration
Of Binary Revolution Radio
Over the years
And
Not only Binary Revolution Radio
But even some
Things before that
There's a bigger history
And longer history
Than four years ago
That we'll talk about
Towards the end
And since we have
So much to talk about
Over those four years
There's no point
Really in doing
An email section
So we're going to
Skip that
Bypass the email
This week
And
Doing away with
Formality of a time limit
As I said
This episode
Is probably going to be
Five plus hours
When it's all said and done
Maybe six plus hours
Who knows
But
You know
We figure if we're going to
Close it up
We wanted to tie up
Any loose ends
We could think of
Or find
Fill in any blanks
Tell some funny stories
And anecdotes
Some behind the scenes stuff
Some trivia
You know
Basically everything
That you've
Ever
Or never
Wanted to know
About Binary Revolution Radio
And try to give some
Complete closure
To everything
We've ever brought up
There's some
Still some outstanding
Things that people
Question or
Have never heard
The full story on
So hopefully
We can fill in
A lot of that
And take as long
As we need
To actually cover
All those topics
In history
That make up
Binary Revolution Radio
Also
Stay tuned
To the very end
We don't
You know
We won't be able
To take email
Responses to the show
But we will be
Announcing a call in
A call in number
Voicemail box
So you can call in
To record a message
About your experience
Or thoughts
About Binary Revolution Radio
This episode
Or the history
And the all
Encompassing entity
Or whatever
Binary Revolution Radio was
So stick around for that
And of course
If you're listening
On the podcast
Or downloading the show
From the website
You can pause at any time
Because this is going
To be a long show
But hopefully
Still be a fun show
So not there
You ready to
Dive into season one
How do you think
We ought to go here?
Yeah I think I'm ready
I'm just trying to digest
The show novel
This is the longest
Show novel
I've ever seen
It is unbelievable
It really is
And I know I get
Those jokes all the time
But to make this
Let's see
This
Alright I'm looking
In my directory
Right now
Live on the air
I didn't know
You were going to
Call me out on this
This early
But I'm looking back
At my show novels
For past episodes
And like
I don't know
Here's episode
156 notes
Was 7k
Episode
165 notes
Was 12k
Episode 186
Was 16k
So here's a small one
194 was only
4k of notes
Well episode 200
Is 47k
That's how big
The show novels are
For this episode
So
Yeah I guess
Less talking
And more getting to it
So we can get through
The show right
Yeah let's go for it
Alright well
Let's see
First of all
One thing I want to say
Is in putting
These show notes together
I went back
Through our archive
At binrev.com
Slash radio
Slash archive
You can download
All the shows
Directly from there
It's an open directory
And has been
For the entire
Four years
If you want to
Just go download
That entire directory
Automatically
Programatically
Or you want to go
And pull any single
Episode
They should all be there
Or pull from the podcast
Or just go to
Slash radio
And click on the
Archive button
And there's a website
There with notes
For every episode
Or most of the episodes
Over the years
Well we do still have
Some to put up
For recent episodes
I haven't gotten around
To yet
But
As I was reading
Through these
There's a lot of links
To the things we talked
About on some of these shows
And some of them
Are pretty funny
I don't think
That's one thing
Over the four years
Some people may go back
And find the show
Because it's in Google
Because they searched
For something
And they Googled
For a term
And found it
But I don't know
That anybody actually
Went back
And looked at the notes
Or appreciated
How funny some of these notes were
Hack and slash
Logos X did notes
For a long time
Enigma
A lot of people
Wrote notes for this
And they're really funny
A lot of the stuff
You click on
Doesn't take you
Where you think
It would take you at all
There's a few links
To like the albatross
Your mutant power
I haven't even seen that myself
I'll have to go back
And check it out
Yeah there's all kinds
Of funny links
Mixed in there
Here's a link
To goat sea
In the show notes
Now that's not funny
That's kind of gross
But yeah there's a lot
Of funny links
Back in there
And especially in terms
Of what the link
It may say one thing
But take you somewhere
Different
It's got some puns
And some funny
References in there
So that was kind of fun
Going back through there
There's jokes in there
That I had forgotten about
Or didn't even realize
Were in there all this time
But going back
Through the history
I guess
Where do we begin
But at the beginning
Episode number one
Of Binary Revolution Radio
Air date was
July 8, 2003
And here we are
In October 2007
Four
Over four years later
Can you believe
Four years
Isn't that bizarre
Yeah it's amazing
I mean really
Anything for four years
Yeah
That's a show
That's a thing
They have to do
Yeah websites
Don't last for you
Especially hacking websites
Because there's so much
Material and content
On there that
Well gets the site
Shut down
So heck
It's a testament
Just getting
BinRev.com up
And staying running
And forums all this time
With all the content
That people post
Or try to post in there
So we've had a great
Moderating team
That's helped get that
Make that happen
And helped keep us
From going down there
And then the show itself
Obviously four years
And yeah
Episode one
With you know
The Freak Scout himself
Wintermute and I
Started the show
Kind of a spin off
Of Radio Freak America
RFA over at
OldSchoolFreak.com
And you know
Kind of wanted
A different format
And we're going to
Go into the format
Later on in the show
But one of the
More rigid formats
Than some of the other
Shows were doing
At the time
And actually
This episode
Is also
One of the things
In here
Was the beginning
Of a very long
Running meme
Of Juarez
Because I believe
We had an email
On this first episode
Of somebody
Emailing us
Wanting to know
About Juarez
Or Wares
W-A-R-E-Z
And I've heard
People pronounce it
Both ways
And never sure
Of how to pronounce it
So it became
Kind of a joke
We talked about
In that first episode
But it became
This running joke
This meme
That we've carried on
For four years
So we still call it
Juarez
Or if you're
A Spanish speaker
Or have a little accent
You could call it
Juarez
And I actually
Went to
Juarez Mexico
And I'm sure
You know where this is
You've done some business
In that area
Juarez
Yeah now
Juarez
Is it the city
That's the city
That's directly
Across the border
From El Paso, Texas
El Paso
Sister city
To El Paso, Texas
Yep
Yeah I saw it
When I was in El Paso
But I didn't get
A chance to go
I only had like
Six hours
And the city
Had to do my work
And get done
But everybody
Told me it's a great
Time to go over there
So I've got to
Go back sometime
Well if you want
To go back now
You have to have
A passport
When I went
It was before
They cracked down
And were requiring
Passports
You could go walk
Across the footbridge
Over there
Or drive across
But you could walk
Across the footbridge
Which is what I did
Took some pictures
Over there
And boy
Lots of
Lots and lots
Of pay phones
Did you happen
To notice that
In El Paso
No not really
Where I was
I was in
You know
A bunch of hospitals
And stuff
Doing some
Consulting work
And I didn't
Really get a chance
To check out
Much of anything
Other than the offices
That I was working in
So
El Paso
Had a ton
Of pay phones
I know a lot
Of other parts
Of the country
Have been getting
Rid of pay phones
Left and right
Chopping them down
But boy
They're alive
And well
In El Paso
And the closer
You got to the border
Oh my goodness
There were banks
Of like 30 pay phones
Side by side
By side
And like
All in use
It was insane
I guess people
Were crawling
Across the border
To meet people
Or
I don't know
And I don't know
How the exchange rate
And who runs
These phones
And same thing
On the other side
When I crossed
Over into Juarez
There were a ton
Of pay phones
Over there as well
So
It was really
Interesting
I did take
Some pictures
And actually
Just recently
Sent them in
To 2600 magazine
So
I don't know
If they're
Bothered to use them
I had them
Sitting around
On my camera
Memory card
SD card
For a long time
Just got around
To sending them in
But
But yeah
This was the beginning
Of the Juarez meme
It again came
It was years later
Many years after this
Before I actually
Went out to Juarez
But
Kind of an interesting
Little back story there
Episode number two
Proof that
Redneck hackers exist
That would be me
Yeah
And this is the beginning
Of the running joke
About you being
A slight redneck
I would put you
Well beyond
The slight redneck
No
I'm not well beyond
Droops is well beyond
Droops is a full on
Redneck
Droops is a full on
Beer drinking
Mailbox baseball
Kind of redneck guy
I'm just more country
I guess
A little bit of redneck
I don't know
Maybe a lot of redneck
Who am I kidding
I don't know
What I'm talking about
I think
I think you're a lot
Of redneck
And maybe you don't
Drink
But I think that's
Because you're too busy
Watching NASCAR
To get a drink
I like NASCAR
Screw you
Damn Yankee
Don't hate
Oh
Damn Yankee
Actually I get a little
Hate sometimes
Because I'm actually
Originally from the
State of Virginia
And some people
Don't realize
Or don't think
That Virginia
Is part of the south
And that bugs
The hell out of me
Boy that's a pet
Peeve of mine
We were
The Mason-Dixon line
We formed the
Mason-Dixon line
Damn it
This is supposed to be
An anniversary episode
And I'm going into a rant
What the fuck
How did this happen
Damn it
Well let me just
Clear it up to you
Right now
Anything south
Of the New York
New Jersey border
Is the south
Hmm
Well I also spent
A few years in Pennsylvania
So I guess by your
Definition I've always
Been in the south
Yeah
Very much
Well
Virginia
The Mason-Dixon line
Anything south
Of the Mason-Dixon line
Is the south
That's how it is
So
There you go
There's a little
Dock droppage
From the dog
Looking ahead
Let's see
Number four
Was a good episode
Brought Dual Parallel
On the show
For the first time
And shows
That
Binary Revolution Radio
And RFA
Could coexist
That there was no separation
There was no animosity
Or anything like that
It was just a
New show
With different formats
Different formats
Topics
Different shows
All together
I was still on
Radio Freak America
While we were doing it
Doing two shows a week
And Dual was coming on
And doing the show
With me sometimes
So
At this time actually
Episode four
When we aired this
In 2003
And when we started
The show
For that matter
We knew all along
That RFA
Was going to be ending
We knew
That RFA
Was winding down
Dual wasn't having
Time to do it anymore
Bland wasn't having
Time to do it anymore
So we knew
It was happening
And Dual and I
Had even talked about
You know
What to do
And how we were doing
You know
How long we were going
To keep the show going
And we started
Binary Revolution Radio
Actually around
Episode 69
Of RFA
69 of course
A notable episode
For other reasons
But of course
So was our episode 69
We'll talk about that
In a little bit too
But around that same episode
That's when we started
Binary Revolution Radio
So coexisted for quite
A long time together
Again
I've always said
Especially in the early episodes
We used to always
Encourage people
To make their own shows
We wanted more people
Out there
Making radio shows
Making TV
Making content
Not just being
Consumers and users
We always encourage people
To put things out there
And still do to this day
Especially with
Binary Revolution Radio
Going away
I'm going to need
Something to listen to
It works
So please
Go out there
And make some shows
But yeah
Show that
You know
Shows can coexist
You can have multiples
Heck even
Hacker Media
The site that came up
To help keep track
Of all the shows
That were coming around
At that time
So
Very good times
In the hacking scene
I think
Let's see
Episode 4
Episode 5
Was the beginning
Of another meme
That we had on the show
This one kind of
Died away
After Mute left
But
Winter Mute
Back on RFA
Actually I think it was
Was talking about
How he saw
I think it was a cop
Somewhere that
They were starting
To use segways
And he started
Yelling at the guy
Screaming out
Segway
So
And Jul and I
Always thought
That was funny
Because
It was just weird
Who yelled
Segway out
At somebody
So anytime
Anybody ever said
Segway
On any of the shows
We would always
Echo it
And scream out
Segway
In the middle
Of the show
And that's probably
A meme that
Was only
It was like
An inside joke
Nobody ever got
People probably
Thought we were
Crazy for doing that
But
Kind of a running joke
It wasn't just
When people were
Talking about segways
When they say
Okay let's
Segway on
To the next
Segment
Segway
Any occasion
To yell out
Segway
You know
I know you say
That it went away
When mute
Stopped being on the show
But I gotta tell you
I'm a victim of this
Even when I'm talking
To people
About segways
People who know
Nothing about
The hacking scene
Whatsoever
Every once in a while
I'll just yell
Segway
And people will look
At me
Rightfully so
Like I'm a total idiot
And I don't even
Bother to explain it
I just changed the subject
So
It's just
An awkward situation
It's catchy
Segway
Maybe that'll be
The one legacy
That comes out
Of Binary Revolution
Radio
People yelling
Segway for no reason
Oh man
Oh let's see here
How about
Episode 7
The how to episode
Boy this is
These are cop out episodes
The how to
Like every radio show
Everybody who's ever
Done a radio show
Does a
How to do
The radio show
Episode somewhere
I think that's a sign
Of people running
Out of content
Or running out of topics
And probably for us
As well
We were probably
Struggling to
Kind of get our feet
There at the beginning
But
We of course
Did our obligatory
How to do a show
And
I don't know
A lot of shows
Died after that
Luckily we kept
On continuing
We were able
To still get up
With
Get some content
Going
And survive
Through that
Where a lot of shows
End with the
How to episode
So luckily that
Didn't happen to us
And it was only
A couple more
Episodes after that
That our little
Winter mute
The little freak scout
Went off to college
Our little boy's
Growing up
Oh
I'm getting
Requested
You don't know
About the birds
And the bees yet
Or what
What's going on
Well
We figured we'd
Just let him
Learn that in college
Doesn't that sound right
Yeah
I'm
I'm sure he's
Learned plenty about that
Let him experiment
What are you kidding
Anybody
Any hacker
Worth a grain of salt
In the interweb
Has already learned
All about goat seed
Tub girl
What more could you
Possibly want to know
I mean
Lemon party
Meat spin
I don't know
I would say that tub girl
In health class
That would be
That would
Explained a lot more
To me
A lot more
Of what I needed
To know
Than the crap
They told me
Yeah
If you take tub girl
Goat seed
Meat spin
And lemon party
Is there really
Anything more to learn
About sex
Beyond those
Doesn't that cover it
I don't know
Oh wait
Lime party
What about lime party
Lime party
But that's lemon party
Same thing
It's
It's different
No
What else
Well and the link
To the
You know
You got to know
What the albatross is
Rosebud
You got to learn
How to rose
If you can't make
A proper rosebud
You ought not
Be in college
Can I get an amen
What about that
What is it
Link182.com
What is that one
I don't think
I know that
That's just like
A bunch of links
To other things
And they have
I think it's
Mercrory.com
Or something
The riding dirty link
What about
Hi2U
Hi2U is good
What about the one
That you always
Make the sound for
That was
Hi2U
The face on it
The what
I always
Screwed up
Hi2U
I always tried
To pronounce it
As like
Hi
Hiro
I thought the
Two was like
An R
Elite eyes
Or something
Oh I don't know
Maybe
Which one are you
Talking about
But I don't think
So
It's got like
The Microsoft
Painted on
Two eyes
And it looks
Like a monster's
Mouth
Oh the one
The animated
GIF
Yeah
The ball eater
One that I sent
You
That's the
Greatest thing
Ever on the
Interweb
No the
Greatest thing
Is the way
That you always
Go
Nom nom nom
Nom nom
Nom
It's nom nom
Nom nom
Nom
See I
Can't even do
It's fantastic
Oh shit
That is the
Funniest thing
Ever
Oh my gosh
I defy
Anyone to not
Laugh at that
Picture
That is the
Greatest thing
Ever
Oh man
Well anyway
Wintermute
Went off to
School
And here
You know
Episode 200
Four years
Later
And he's
Almost a
College graduate
So
Man
That puts it
In perspective
How long
It's been
Four years
Long enough
For people
People who
Have heard
Binary Revolution
Radio
Episode 1
Graduating from
College
And we're still
On the air
Through the whole
Process
I mean is there
Anybody out there
Who actually
Has been around
And listened to
Episode 1
All the way up
To 200
And through
Their college
Years
I mean that
Would be an
Amazing story
To hear if there
Was anybody
Actually out there
That did that
And stuck with us
That long
Yeah and
You know what
Else
This
Let's see
We started
Getting
A lot of
Hits from
Tech TV
In our
Log files
Early on
With this show
We were nine
Episodes in
And I guess
Ratings or
Numbers or
Climbing of
Downloads and
Stuff like
That
And I've
Always been
A log dog
I'd go
Digging through
The Apache
Logs to see
Where things
Are coming
From
Or more
Appropriate
Looking at
Some of the
Statistics
Programs to
See where
Links and
Hits are
Coming from
What they're
Looking at
Stuff like
That
I've always
Been big
On analyzing
That sort
Of thing
And there
Was a
Noticeable
Amount of
Hits coming
From tech
TV
Now we've
Never been
On tech
TV and I
Don't know
Exactly why
Or what
Would have
Driven them
Here so
It got me
Digging a
Little bit
And started
Noticing shortly
Thereafter that
A lot of
Topics that
We talked
About on
Binary
Revolution
Radio or
Talked about
In the forums
And things
Like that
Started appearing
As dark
Tips on
The screen
Savers
The show
What is
It's a
Attack of
The show
Now it's
Called
Back then
It was
It used to
The screen
Savers
Yeah and
It's on
G4 is what
The station
Is called
It used to
Be called
Tech TV
Right
And the
Show was
The screen
Savers
And I
Actually
Hold on
A second
When you
Say that
You were
Getting a
Lot of
Hits
From
Tech TV
Do you
Mean like
Tech TV
IP space
Or you're
Getting lots
Of like
Referral
Links
No
Referral
Links
We were
Getting
We were
Actually
Getting
People browsing
From
Tech TV
Domains
Their IP
Resolve
Back to
Tech TV
So somebody
Inside of
It
You know
I
Stopped
Looking for
It only
Caught my
Eye
Because we
Noticed
A large
Amount
A large
Number
Of them
So if
They're
Still
Happening
Or
If they
Kept
Happening
On a
Regular
Basis
I
Didn't
Follow
It
Over
Time
To
See
If
It's
Still
Going
On
There's
So
Many
Other
Sites
That
Are
Giving
Us
More
Visits
That
They
Kind
Of
Fell
So
They
Just
Kind
Of
Disappeared
Into
The
Into
The
Mix
Of
All
The
Other
Visits
We
Get
So
Too
Small
Of
A
Number
Percentage
But
In
Those
Early
Days
When
We
Didn't
Have
As
Much
Traffic
It
Stood
Out
Better
Stood
Out
A
Lot
Easier
So
Yeah
Coincidentally
Is it
Coincidence
That
A
Lot
Of
Our
Stuff
Started
Appearing
As
Dark
Tips
On
The
Screensaver
So
You
Know
Just
Throw
That
Out
There
That
We
Started
Noticing
That
In
Episode
Nine
So
That
Starts
Kind
Of
A
Little
Conflict
Or
A
Story
That
Comes
Back
Later
On
In
The
Course
Of
Binary
Revolution
Radio
And
Episode
10
Binary
Revolution
Magazine
Started
The
Magazine
Something
That
We
Created
That
We
Wanted
To
Be
Kind
Of
Like
A
Complimentary
To
2600
We
Wanted
It
To
Be
A
Little
Bit
More
Technical
I
Really
Loved
BR
Magazine
That
Was
Like
My
Favorite
Thing
I
Hate
To
Admit
This
On
The
Show
Now
But
I
Think
I
Love
Doing
That
Magazine
More
Than
Really
Cool
To
See
Come
Full
Circle
So
I
Can
See
How
You
Would
Like
That
Better
Than
The
Show
It
Was
Easy
To
Churn
Out
Getting
A
Printed
Finished
Product
Nailed
To
People
That
Takes
A
Lot
Of
Work
So
It
Pretty
Satisfying
When
It
Done
I
Think
Yeah
And
To
Do
It
The
Way
Not
Only
The
Way
I
Envisioned
It
But
Even
Better
I
Mean
Logan
And
Cypher
Want To
Design
Like
That
Here
Is
The
Theme
What
If
We
Did
This
And
They
Made
It
Happen
And
Even
Better
Than
I
Ever
Thought
So
I
Mean
I
Was
So
Proud
Of
What
We
Put
Out
And
The
Articles
And
The
Quality
Of
That
We
Put
Out
That
Was
Something
I
Was
Really
Proud
Of
But
It
Was
Just
So
Hard
To
Put
Out
A
Magazine
As
Well
I
Putting
Out
This
Radio
Show
We
Talked
About
You
Know
How
Much
Time
We
Put
Into
It
And
How
Hard
It
Is
To
Do
It
Every
Week
But
A
Magazine
Especially
Getting
The
Content
For
It
Content
For
The
Radio
Show
I
Have
To
Say
Always
Came
Easy
To
Me
For
The
Most
Part
To
Be
Honest
I
Always
Am
Reading
And
Learning
And
Picking
Up
New
Things
And
Have
Friends
That
Have
Thought
Of
At
The
Last
Minute
There
Wasn't
As
Much
Preparation
Put
Into
Them
And
I
And people have emailed me making suggestions.
They really don't know the detail of this.
To get carried into store shelves, it's not easy.
And self-publishing is not the solution.
We did self-publishing, if you want to call it that, as far as we did the design, layout.
I went and found a local printer, negotiated a good price, got them printed.
And just like the shirts, they sit in my garage for a long time.
I actually do still have a few issues of the magazines laying here and there
that I finally picked up the last few from Logos X, actually, was hanging on to them.
So I do have a few issues of the magazine that maybe we'll do something with
or release on the website at some point.
But, yeah, the financial difficulties.
I mean, in the very beginning, we were actually getting these printed at Kinko's.
We were literally going down to Kinko's with a PDF file and saying,
print me five copies of this.
And it was costing us about $5.20 to get the magazine printed that we were selling for five bucks.
Plus, we were eating the books.
That doesn't really make good business sense.
Yeah, I know.
Well, you know, we just wanted to get it out there.
We just wanted people to enjoy and see the magazine, you know.
And we were eating the shipping costs on that.
And, again, we were so small at the time, it was just kind of a circle of friends type deal.
So, you know, it wasn't like we were in it necessarily to make money.
It would have been nice if it would have broke even.
But, gosh, the first few, if you want one of the really true original first issues of Binary Revolution
or BR Magazine ever printed, it was printed at Kinko's on the same type of paper.
Later on, when I did get some cash saved up, I printed nice hard cardstock covers,
a little bit thicker, looked a lot nicer, nice glossy white interior.
But those early ones we printed off at Kinko's were shiny ink printed on an inkjet printer by Kinko's.
The cover was the same type of paper as the interior.
They were all identical.
I think it wasn't staggered properly.
It still looked great, don't get me wrong, but it certainly was obvious that it was kind of a hack job.
And, actually, do you remember this story?
I'll let you tell this story.
I remember, was it Hope 5?
That you and I were like out, we sold out of the 50 or whatever that I brought,
so I didn't know anything about you in New York, and you took me down to Kinko's.
Remember, we went to like three or four that were closed?
Oh, yeah.
Remember that?
I was always under the impression that Kinko's in Manhattan is 24 hours everywhere.
I'm always under the impression that almost everything in Manhattan is 24 hours.
So, yeah, you and I decided, oh, we'll just, you know, walk to a Kinko's that's nearby.
And there was one that was nearby, but not that nearby.
So we went to the first one, and they were closed up, and they're like, nope, we can't print anything.
So, we walked to the next one, and they're like, nope, we're closed up, we can't print anything.
So, we must have gone to at least three or four of these things.
I don't even remember if we got it done.
Yeah, the next to the last.
At the end of it, I mean, we must have had to walk back, I don't know, 45 blocks to get back to the hotel.
No, no, no.
It was a long trip back.
No, here, I'm going to refresh your memory.
We ended up taking a stinky-ass cab back because we were both too lazy to walk back.
Ah, okay.
Yeah, we...
Because I remember we were real far away, but I don't remember taking a cab back.
Well, because each Kinko's was only, you know, we kept saying, oh, well, the next one's only a few more blocks, but it was closed.
And the next one, oh, it's a few more blocks, but it's closed.
And we ended up doing this, and we ended up being so far away, the next to the last one had a sign up that says,
sorry, we're closed, go to the 24-hour Kinko's on such and such.
And you knew where that was, and we made that final walk to that one.
We dropped it off for them.
They said it'd be done for us in the morning.
So we dropped it off for them, and they told us what time to come back and pick it up.
And we were like, hey, it has to be ready now.
So we ended up getting a cab.
It was like 2, 3 a.m. now.
It was several hours later.
We got a cab back, and the worst-smelling cab I'd ever been in in my life.
And came back to the hotel.
I guess I blocked that part of the story out of my mind.
Yeah, I guess so.
Maybe the fumes got to you or something.
And then, I don't know if it was you and I.
I know it was me, and it might have been you again that next morning.
Was that the night you peed on Natas?
No, that was at DEF CON.
It was the next morning.
Yeah, that was it.
Oh, that's right.
That was the night you slept in my closet, remember?
Oh, my God.
In the Hotel Pennsylvania.
You slept in our closet.
I remember that.
Oh, yeah, I guess I didn't go with you the next day, because I had to work both that
night and the next day, but at Hope, and I had to go home and do some work and come back.
That was a big mess for me.
Yeah, that was...
But, yeah, I remember sleeping on the floor in the closet.
That was awesome.
That was terrible.
But, yeah, anyway, we ended up going back and getting 100 copies printed, took them back
to Hope, and was selling them at a little table there for $5 again.
And it cost us...
Now, because I got them in big...
We got them done in batches of four or five at a time.
Dool did it to his kinkos and myself, and they were costing us right at $5 a piece to
do.
When I did them in a little bit bigger quantity of 100, I got printed off that batch.
I think the price broke down to $4.25, and we were selling them for $5 at Hope, so we
didn't have to pay the shipping.
So, we actually made like $0.75 per issue or something like that.
But, I don't even think we sold all 100, and I think I lost a box.
I think I left it in the closet or something there.
So, somebody got a whole box of BR magazines.
So, somebody else might have been selling them against us.
We were competing against someone else selling our own magazine.
But, I ended up, I think, taking some of them home.
We didn't sell them all the rest of them.
I think we sold most of them.
But, we certainly didn't make back in the money that we ever invested into those first
few issues of the magazine.
And, frankly, we still have never broken even on all the magazines that we ever printed.
We have never.
So, I'm still in the hole for that.
So, that's another reason that the magazine kind of fell to the wayside.
Creativity, getting people to write articles, contribute, and stuff like that, and getting
people to support it financially.
And, getting it on store shelves is another difficult thing because you don't get paid.
First of all, getting someone to carry a magazine is hard.
There's a couple of, I guess, I don't know if you say monopoly, but there's a very small
number of distributors to carry a magazine, and they're all about the money.
You have to actually convince them that they're going to make money selling your magazine.
So, you've got a big sales pitch to put up, first of all.
And, I think I can overcome that.
I can social engineer my way through just about any situation like that.
But, the second part of that is you're responsible for all of the printing and everything else
that goes into it in most cases.
So, I would have to come out of pocket to print off all the magazines that I then give to the
distributor, which includes paying for the shipping and all that kind of stuff to get
them to a distributor, who then redistributes them.
Well, even if I had the money, first of all, you have to print off enough to make it worth
their while.
You can't say, oh, I can only afford 100, so just take these 100.
They're going to laugh at, you know, that's not worth their while.
You have to take them, you know, 10,000 magazines or more.
So, if you do a little quick math, you'll see how much that money adds up.
And then, the second thing is, the way the cycle works, you don't get paid any of the money
for sales of your magazine until the cycle completes.
So, we give them issue one of the magazine, for example.
They go out and sell it.
By the time it's ready to do issue two, let's say we were quarterly, like 2,600 or twice
a year or whatever.
That's another thing.
It has to be regular releases.
Let's say we release the next one quarterly.
Three months later, we give them issue two.
They're selling, taking two and distributing it and selling it everywhere.
While they calculate how many sales and the accounting behind issue one, and then account
for the returns or the ones that aren't sold, and they deduct that from your pay.
If they didn't sell it, they keep the magazines.
Theoretically, they're supposed to destroy them or send them back to you if you want to
pay for the cost to have them shipped back to you, and deduct that from the sales, what
they got stuck with eating the cost of.
And then, when all that's said and done, they cut you a check.
Well, it takes about three magazine cycles, so by the time we're releasing the third issue,
only then would I finally start to be getting some money and some checks back from issue number
one that was on sale at this point, what, nine months earlier.
So, it's really hard to do.
You have to be able to fund, out of pocket, three full print runs, whatever those runs
may be, before you're ever going to see a dime back on that.
So, guys, I'm sorry.
I can print off a few at Kinko's.
I can print off maybe a batch of 100, some t-shirts, you know.
I spent a couple grand printing off the magazines in batches of 100 each, and that was just
the best I could do.
That's all I could afford.
So, I did have an offer from another company, who shall remain nameless, who wanted to take
over BinRev Magazine and distribute it and everything, but they wanted to take complete
creative control, put ads in the magazine, which we didn't do, and things like that, and
I was not willing to give that up to them.
I didn't want to sell out.
So, I did not do that.
So, there you go.
There's a bigger man than me, spending thousands of dollars on printing the magazine.
I would have, no way I would have invested that much, not knowing where it was going
to go.
Exactly.
Well, I treated it like a hobby, you know.
It was fun.
I enjoyed it, and, you know, as long as I was doing it in small batches and could recoup
most of the money, part of the money, most of the money, then, you know, I could eat the
cost.
Just like I've eaten the cost of the server all these years.
Ever since BinRev was inceptive, the inception of BinRev, I've been coming out of pocket paying
for the server costs.
And let me tell you how much those server costs have grown these days.
I mean, go out there and do some prices and see what you can get for a, we're on a dual,
okay, let me say this, a dual, okay, let me rephrase it this way, two dual core Xeon processors.
Are we on four or eight gigs of RAM now?
I forgot.
I think we're on four gigs of RAM.
Two 300 gig hard drives.
And we finally, on this last upgrade, last server change with KaroNet, switched to an
unmetered bandwidth model.
So go out and do some price checking to see how much that'll cost you if you want to.
That's what runs Binary Revolution right now.
That's what runs BinRev.com, StankDog.com, DigitalDogPound.org, et cetera, et cetera,
DocDroppers.
That's what runs those.
That's the kind of power that it takes to run the traffic and the bandwidth that we're getting
to the site now.
And that's not cheap.
So Karo's done very good by us, gave us a great deal negotiating in the price, so they've
been very good to us.
So I guess to a certain extent, we may not have jumped the chart, but we may have sold
out a little bit there.
But, boy, it's been more than worth it in my eyes.
Hey, you know, unless somebody's willing to help you flip the bill, at some point you
have to.
You just can't afford to keep paying for it.
Unmetered machines are not cheap.
And you're going to need it this month when this show finally comes out.
Each person's going to download 75 megabytes or whatever it ends up being.
It's going to be huge.
This file size is going to be gigantic.
Yeah, you're probably going to get a call from the ISP being like, wait a second, this
isn't part of the deal.
Yeah.
Unmetered doesn't mean unmetered.
It better.
Yeah, well, if it's Verizon, it doesn't mean unmetered.
Yeah, of course.
Exactly.
So, there you go.
There's a nice little back story about that.
Let's see.
Let's move on to Episode 11, Voodoo How.
See, Voodoo How did something that I thought was really cool about this time.
He started these classes and lectures in IRC.
We had IRC on, I think we were on esper.net at that time, I think.
Yeah, I think you're right.
Might have been over at Freenode by then.
I think it was still on Esper.
And we thought, you know, one of the things we wanted to do was do kind of a mentoring thing
and teaching thing.
And we really wanted to tie it to the show.
Whatever the topic of the show was, we wanted to ideally have maybe weekly IRC lessons on
the topic at hand.
That obviously became too overwhelming.
But Voodoo How did a couple classes and lectures on some programming topics.
And I thought that was really cool.
I think I have some transcripts, text file transcripts of it somewhere on a drive, somewhere in this
freaking room.
Or probably, I think some people actually have it out in the interweb somewhere as well.
I know White Belga Raven Thought Poet had them somewhere on his site.
But I digress.
There's an inside joke for people who've been around for a long time.
They might remember that.
Let's not get into it.
Yeah, please, so we don't want the hacker pimp back on us.
We don't want to get on the bad side of the hacker pimp, pagan, wicked, whatever the hell.
Whatever happened to that?
Never mind.
The cartoon project.
That never happened to either, do I?
The phalanx.
Well, yeah, you know, it's an interesting project, but I have no art skills.
I have somebody who's interested in doing it, but I just don't get to meet up with them enough
to make it happen, so until that changes, there's really no chance for that project.
As cool as it would be, definitely, it would be the best project I've been involved with
in quite a few times.
It would be so awesome.
It would be so fun.
Hey, anybody out there listening, if you've got some cartoon skills, some graphics as in
drawing comic books, you might want to contact us.
We might have some work for you to do.
Let's see, where do we go from there?
Let's see, episode 12, well, we have the obligatory how to make a radio show, so this
was the obligatory how to make Hack TV, how to make a video show with Saito 187, a good
friend of mine from In Real Life.
He's actually, this episode actually coincided with the first full release of the real episode
of Hack TV, the non-pilot, the actual episode one.
We released pilots beforehand, we released a proof of concept pilot very early, just to
see if there was any interest, and it was not even edited together really very well, it
was just clips thrown together, so we released our final pilot about the same time that The
Broken, that show from Kevin Rose called The Broken, came out.
They released episode one about the same time as our official pilot came out, and it was kind
of funny because, or not funny, it was weird actually, it was awkward because everybody
made it to be that there was some big war or something between Hack TV and The Broken,
and that was never really the case.
It really, really wasn't.
I mean, we may have had some issues with Kevin Rose along the days, but we don't care,
never really cared, or we're never at any war between our show and theirs.
I mean, our show came out, our first pilot was the first one ever out there, the early
pilot.
I don't know if they got the idea from that, I don't care if they did, it doesn't really
matter, but they released shows faster than we did, I think.
Well, I'm certain of that because we definitely didn't release shows very quickly.
And people from, they started forums and stuff like that, and there was, sometimes people
would come over from there saying we copied them, sometimes people from our forums would
go over there and say that they copied us.
We were never involved with that.
So, some of the beef maybe there actually had nothing to do with me, but other people were
going out there on their own accord and trying to stir stuff up, stir up the drama and stuff
like that.
We were never involved in any of that.
Same thing I said about the radio show goes true for a video show.
We want people to make them.
That's why we did episodes of How to Do It.
Here's the tools that we used.
Here's the way we did it.
You know, encourage people to go out there and make their own.
We never really encouraged any kind of wars or animosity or anything like that.
So, anybody who ever saw that or thought that, that was absolutely not the case at all.
Yeah, I can't understand why anybody would think that you would get involved in that in
the first place.
Forget even getting involved, you know, us getting involved in it.
Why would anybody start to do that?
Listen, we don't care who did what first.
Just do it.
Right.
We want to make stuff.
Let's make stuff.
Fine.
Great.
But there's no need to get in a pitching contest.
Oh, I did this a week before you.
Who cares?
Just do it and shut up.
Well, and you know, not only that, it's, that is true as, you know, the one thing, and this
is going to come up, I think, later on, but I'll set the stage a little bit.
The only thing that I've ever not liked, the only thing that I've ever not liked or that
I've had a little bit of beef with that situation and some others is, you're right.
I don't care.
It doesn't matter.
But give credit where credit is due.
Don't try to claim credit or steal credit from someone else's work.
And that's something that ended up coming out of this and one of the things I didn't like
about it, so.
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
I'm not saying you don't have to give people credit for what they do, but, you know, saying
that I started doing a show before you did is, I mean, it's just silly.
Who cares about that?
But if you're, if you're taking somebody's work and, like, deriving from it and, you
know, building on top of it, you should probably say, hey, I got the idea from this.
Exactly.
You know, if it's something important.
Exactly.
And, you know, that.
Yeah, I know that a lot of that has not been, has not been reciprocated by, by different
groups.
Right.
So.
Not on the up and up.
Hey, I gladly have said it already many times on this show, but, you know, we started this
show because of RFA, you know, and RFA because of HackerMind.
You know, HackerMind was before both of us.
Um, a lot of people may not have heard of it or short-lived or whatever and, um, probably
different content-wise and stuff like that, but you know what?
They were there before we were.
There's no debating it, no doubt about it, and you gotta give credit to that, you know?
Oh, and speaking of back in those days, in episode 13, my good friend Bland Inquisitor
finally appeared on the show.
Took 13 episodes to get him over only because he was so busy.
Uh, he and Duel were holding down Radio Freak America every week, so we know how long that
takes.
Well, we got Bland over on Binary Revolution Radio for this episode, so, um, that was cool.
And, um, yeah, another, I don't know if this is a meme, but I guess I brought people into
my world of being a sad, pathetic, lonely, delusional Cubs fan because, gave a little
shouts at the end of that because my Cubs were trying to head to the playoffs for the
first time, like, ever since 1944-45.
I mean, it's been a long drought since the Cubs were in the series and since they've won
it in 1908.
It's been a long time and, boy, I had hopes, I had high hopes up then that they might do
it and they didn't do it then and here we are four years later and, boy, wouldn't it
be nice?
Wouldn't it be a great ending to the Binary Revolution Radio?
Maybe I have to keep the show going until the Cubs win the series, but we'd never, ever
end the show if I had to wait for that.
I was going to say, I don't know that you're going to live that long.
Exactly.
And make yourself do it.
Oh, my goodness, definitely not.
But, damn it, this year we made it to the playoffs again, this year we choked, we always
choked, fucking Steve Bartman and that fucking goat.
Ugh!
I might need to pause.
I need to reduce my stress level just thinking about it.
Oh, my God.
How can you get so wrapped up in a game like that?
I don't understand it.
It's a beautiful game.
It is just the greatest thing ever.
I love baseball and I love the Cubs more than anything.
I grew up watching them on WGN.
Not even, that's the funny thing.
First thing everybody asks me is, are you from Chicago?
No.
You know, I don't have to be from Chicago to be a Cubs fan.
I grew up watching WGN on cable and watching the Cubs game every day after school.
I come home from school, they only had day games at Wrigley Field.
They didn't install the lights until 1989, which was when I was graduating from high school.
So, there were always day games.
So, I get to come home from school every day and watch the Cubs play.
Boy, those, ugh, those were the days.
Andre Dawson, Mark Grace.
Anyway, I digress.
Okay.
Oh, episode 15.
Boy, that was a memorable episode for two words.
Deadly Halon.
That might be the most memorable.
We'll never die.
That might be the most memorable episode.
And really, there's nothing I can say about it if you've got to go back and listen to that episode.
It was, I know because I was there firsthand.
That was the funniest thing that's ever happened to me in my life.
Absolutely scared me shitless.
Almost literally.
Not completely.
I didn't shit myself, but I almost shit myself.
That was the funniest thing that's ever happened to me in my life.
Go back and listen to that.
I've seen the people in the forums with Deadly Halon and their SIG.
I don't know if it's you or somebody else, but I've seen it a couple, I'm sure.
Yeah, and it's certainly referencing that story, which I retold again that we did Binary Revolution Radio
in front of a live studio audience at Hope, five or six?
Six?
Yeah, it had to be six, right?
Yeah, I think so.
I don't remember.
By the time we get to that part of the show, I'm sure we'll talk about it then.
But I retold the story there, but this is when it was originally told, episode 15, four years ago, 2003.
Let's see, what else?
Episode 16 with some schmuck called Knot Theory?
Yeah, I think he disappeared off the scene completely.
I don't really want to get into the details live, but I think he's in some kind of trouble with the law.
Well, I was working on my site, Bell's Mind, about that time.
Wow, it's unbelievable.
You know, I didn't get a chance to go all the way through the notes, but when did Bell's Mind start in relation to these shows?
I don't know, actually.
I do not remember.
I don't remember.
Of course, the joke I'm making there is that people thought Bell's Mind was my project for the longest time.
Even though you came on the show and talked about it, we always credited you.
And for some reason, people credited it to me for it.
Like, I know what the hell I'd be running with that site.
I don't know.
I think that when I talk, people just don't hear anything.
So people listening to this show, they probably hear you talking and then silence.
And then you responding to something that they didn't hear and then silence.
That's why they never get the point that it's not your site.
I don't know.
Yeah, it is my site.
You're right.
It is my site.
But, yeah, that's what I do is I either – you never went back and listened to the shows after we recorded,
but I edited out everything that you say so they don't hear it.
And or I do the little Jedi Mind trick like I just did and just repeat it back what I wanted people to hear.
And then they just all fall for it.
Exactly.
Actually, darn it.
You know what?
In retrospect, I wish we could have gone back and, like, inserted some Jedi Mind trick to see if anybody fell for it.
Damn it.
Too late now.
Oh, well.
And this was – let's see.
This was the X-rated episode, which was, you know, we went into some detail talking about my language on the show.
There's a big warning, like you said earlier.
It's not a work-safe show.
It's not safe for work.
NSFW.
I use naughty language.
It's just the way it is.
If I get mad, I get worked up, whatever the topic is, and I think I can get my point across better by using a few expletives, then, you know, the F-bombs fly.
What can I tell you?
Now, just looking back at the notes, is this the first show that I was ever on?
I don't remember which one that was.
I think – I think that was – let's see, 14, single sign-on, episode 14.
That looks like it might have been the first one.
Actually, let's see.
If it's any consolation, though, you were on a couple episodes before Decoder, episode 18.
Oh, yeah.
I'm looking back at the – episode 8, I guess, was the first one that I was on.
That was when we were talking about free toys.
Oh, yeah.
Free tools.
Forgot all about that.
Yeah, back in the day.
Back in the day when I was young, I'm not a kid anymore, but some days I said and wish I was a kid again.
See, that's another meme.
I sing on the shows.
I don't give a fuck.
I sang Janet Jackson on the show.
I sang – I think I sang Spice Girls, or was that – that was on an outtake, I think.
What else have I sang on the show?
Huh.
I don't know.
Whatever it is, you don't need to do it anymore.
There's always ways you can sing.
It's always bad.
I always joked about how I was going to go on American Idol and be one of the funny people
that they make – you know, that Simon makes fun of, but Decoder and I actually – for
four years, Decoder and I have been saying we're going to go on there and tell them we're
twins and sing some horrible honeycomb song.
Oh, that would be so hard.
Now, wait a second.
Are you guys going to do the honeycomb song, or are you going to do the jug band?
The jug band?
I don't know.
Old Stank Jenkins.
Oh, man.
I don't know.
We never did work that out.
It's never going to happen, so it doesn't matter.
However, irrelevant of American Idol, we are going to start the – what was it?
The down-home good times jug band or something like that.
Oh, man.
Hey, you guys need to go on a world tour.
Bring your jugs.
Bring – dude, can you imagine the T-shirts and the logos?
It would be like hooters.
Oh, that would be great, yeah.
That would be pretty good.
Bring your jugs.
Yeah, down.
Let's see.
So, yeah, the X-rated episode and Decoder in episode 18.
And actually, you and I, we're going to have to – I'm going to have you back on again
at the end of the show.
So, after we do this, we're going to have to wrap up and talk about Decoder a little
bit because there's some story there that we've kept hush-hush and quiet for a long
time, and a lot of it still is going to remain that way.
But at least let people know that Decoder, where he's at and that he's all right and all
that kind of good stuff.
So, we'll come back to that topic.
But for now, let's see.
We're talking about the – oh, yeah, the whole X-rated nature and my language and stuff
like that.
I went through a phase there for a while where I did try to clean up the show, where
I did try to make it – because, you know, I got that little vibe where it's like there
are some people that are listening to the show that are younger, and I didn't want to give
off the image or the – you know, make it sound like to be cool you have to say bad words
and stuff like that.
So, I thought I'd clean up my act and make it so that people could listen to the show
at work, that sort of thing.
And, I don't know, when I started the show in the very beginning, I always knew and
always loved internet radio because of the fact that – and I'm hearing some echoing
in the background.
I don't know if you can hear it at all, but I always liked the fact –
I can't hear it, but I can fix it.
Okay.
I always liked the fact that being on the internet, I didn't have to deal with the
FCC.
I didn't have to worry about that, not only the language, but the content.
You know, computer hackers, especially four years ago and even still now to an extent,
is a scary word.
You know, they get lumped with terrorists and all these other things.
And so, content or language, there's no way we could ever get a show like this on the
real airwaves.
Airwaves.
Now, we did – some other people did actually stream this over the airwaves in different
college radio stations from small towns.
They would either stream it in such a – I don't – actually – somebody did it with
a delay, I think, and edited out any of the bad stuff.
And then someone else actually went in and edited the MP3 files and put bleeps over the
bad words and stuff.
And I know there was a few episodes where it just must have been one long beep.
Yeah, that's serious dedication to go through like a two-hour show and edit out all that
kind of stuff beforehand.
I mean, it's easy to do on the fly with delay, but not to sit there and edit it and save
it and then rebroadcast it.
That's a lot of work.
Yeah, and that was always really a weird feeling because we were the anti-FCC show.
You know, we were always about doing this on the interweb because we didn't have boundaries.
We didn't have limits.
I guess there's always some sort of limit, but definitely not the same.
So, that was always interesting.
And it's one of the things I liked about doing this show is I didn't have that artificial
boundary of FCC limits.
The only limits I had was limits of my bad taste, which are pretty limitless, and the
boundaries of the interweb itself.
You know, as long as there's room in the tubes, we're out there surfing.
Out there swimming in the tubes, baby.
Like a waterbed filled with butter and feces and...
Eh, never mind.
Forget it.
Jesus.
You didn't think I'd go there, did you?
No, I was totally unprepared for that.
Oh, man.
That's an inside joke that no one's ever going to get.
Episode 200.
We're going to leave you with a joke that we're never going to explain.
18.
Yes, Decoder and I, you know, have been friends for a while.
I got him on the episode finally, and this episode of Binary Revolution Radio was on November
4th, 2003.
Default Radio debuted about a week or two later.
The first episode of Default Radio was on November 21st, 2003.
So, what is that, three weeks later?
Two weeks later.
No, three weeks later, something like that.
So, yeah.
Again, continuing with the whole tradition of all of us being friends and community shows
and supporting each other, I was on several episodes of Default Radio with the gang over
there.
They did such a fun show.
You know, and Default Radio was great, and you were a regular on Default Radio.
Default Radio was great to me as a listener because, A, Decoder's funny as hell.
You know, Decoder and I have always been good friends, and their show form, you know, we
have a rigid format on Binary Revolution Radio for the most part.
We always did the same thing.
Their format was that there was no format, and that's what made the show great.
Decoder couldn't, I can just talk.
I'm pretty good at just talking and talking and talking, but Decoder's really good at that
as well, and Decoder could just make a show funny.
Decoder was just fun to listen to.
Yeah, it's a shame to see it go.
Yeah, well, I don't know.
We got 11-11 coming up here in a few more weeks, don't we?
Yeah, we sure do.
We'll see about that.
Yeah.
I have my doubts.
I do, too.
Anyway, so let's see.
What else?
19, episode 19, another tradition debut on this episode.
I gave shout-outs for Veterans Day.
You know, that's something I've always done, too.
This is probably totally not hacking-related, but, you know, sometimes I have these corny
things that I do because I believe in them, and, you know, the war going on four years
ago now.
Keep in mind the time frame and what was going on, and despite what people may think about
the war that's going on then, now, or any war for that matter, you know, I really think
very highly of those people that go out there and risk their lives every day because the
fact that they do what they do allows me to do what I do.
You know, I couldn't do something like this if we didn't live in a pre-society, you know,
getting less and less so as the day goes on, but I'm not going into politics, and I've
always appreciated that, so every year I would always make sure to say that on the air.
I thought that's the least that I could do, so every year, four years, I've always tried
to do that.
Episode number 20, MC Front A Lot.
But, Bland Inquisitor actually told me about this guy, Mr. Front A Lot, or Mr. A Lot, I
don't know how to address him specifically, but Bland actually followed a site called Song
Fight, songfight.org, which is where anybody could go in and make music, make a song based
on whatever random topics they would pick, and then people would vote on which ones they
liked best.
And this gentleman came along by the name of MC Front A Lot and made something called
Nerdcore Hip Hop, a track that was just phenomenal.
It was just such a cool thing, something that was new and different and never been heard
before, coined the phrase Nerdcore, you know.
He is the grandfather, the godfather of Nerdcore Hip Hop, and we closed out the show with one
of his songs, and later on, he actually performed live at Hope No. 5 when we did Binary Revolution
Radio Live.
He actually performed at that event, and I'm still good friends with him to this day.
I mean, four years ago, when he was on the show, we played the song for the first time
on the show, we played several since then, and had him on the show since then, but he's
released two albums, has got so much press coverage, and has just, I mean, look where
he was four years ago compared to where he is now and still climbing.
So, that's something very cool.
So, big props to the front.
He's come a long way, and hopefully so have we, and still hosting his website to this day.
I contacted him and made the offer, so we've been hosting his website for quite a while.
22 and 23, jump up a couple episodes.
Do you remember the big hack?
Do you remember these episodes at all?
Yeah, you know, I was looking through the notes, and I decided to go to their website.
Their website is still up, but I'm still kind of really confused about what this thing was
all about.
It seemed like a bunch of nonsense.
I mean, it is a bunch of nonsense, but I don't understand whatever happened with it.
Right.
Well, this was, all right, so here's the interesting thing, and it goes back to our friend we mentioned
earlier, Mr. White Belgaraven.
We had someone in our forum.
Okay, well, let me back up.
The episode was about the big hack, and what the big hack was, was a website called, is
it thebighack.org or .com?
I think it was .org, I'm not sure.
They have both.
Okay, so it was a project or a site called the big hack, which, ooh, the big hack, what
does that mean?
Well, the big hack was a project to basically encode and decode music on the fly, and this
was four years ago, and it was right in the heart of the whole RIAA, cracking down on piracy,
copyright, stuff like that.
Okay, the overly simplified thing was their interpretation of the law was it's only illegal if you're
owning a file that has that content on it in a listenable format, or it is an actual copy
bit-by-bit, whatever, you know, it's an exact pirated duplicate copy.
I'm not sure how to exactly put that into words.
And their idea to bypass that, or that was a loophole to that, was that instead of storing
that file on your computer and therefore having a piece of illegal copywritten material, that
what you would do was store two files.
Now, I don't know the technical details of whether it was a checksum plus a file or probably
a half and half, maybe split the file in the middle, so that if you listen to either one
of them individually, there's nothing there, they're completely irrelevant, it's random
bits of data, but they were trying to put together an application that would, on the fly, have
a database that says, okay, well, I don't know, Britney Spears, what was her big hit, hit me
one more time or something, but having a database to know to join file A to file B on the fly and
play it. So it's actually only joining it for a split second to play it in memory. It
never actually gets written anywhere, it's all done in memory, and you never have an actual
Britney Spears copywritten or whatever the case may be, copywritten file on your hard
drive. That was what the idea and the concept of the big hack was.
Right. And the people that I had talked to who were into it, they were like, well, you
can't really copyright a number or something, you know, so there's like two big numbers that
make up this song and you combine them.
Right.
But I think the premise is just ridiculous, you know, but the law isn't really as black
and white as people think it is. There's, you know, lawyers and judges, they interpret
the law and there's wiggle room in there and to bring this case to some judge, you're just
going to get left out of course, I have to imagine.
Right. Well, and you know what, this is why, you know, when I heard this, I kind of thought,
wait a minute, this is, I mean, it's an interesting story, you know, if this was a piece of fiction
or something, if this was a book or a short story or something, it would be interesting.
But realistically speaking, yeah, it didn't seem like it was right. And one of our forum
members at the time was heavily into this. He would always come over and promote it in
our forums and talk about it all the time, ad nauseum to the point where we were just
like, dude, we get it. Stop posting the link. Stop talking about it. It's not going to work.
That's what you think is, that somehow makes it legal. It's probably not. The debate and
arguments about it aside, he never would listen. But anyway, he went over there and he was so
into it that I actually was kind of concerned. And I started doing the research on it because
I thought it was completely bogus. Did some digging, did some dock dropping, started digging
stuff up. And long story short, and you can go back and listen to these episodes and I
think it's more detailed there. But long story short, found out that this was totally fake.
I actually did some digging and found a relationship between this site and another site called Hackback.
I think that was Hackback.org. And found out that this was not actually a real project. This was
something called, quote unquote, interactive fiction. So like I said earlier, if this was a story, it
might be interesting. Well, it turns out that's what it was. The person who created the big hack
was really more of a hacker slash writer. And I guess calling it interactive fiction, I guess
maybe a better phrase or something that might be more appropriate is role-playing. He was putting
all this stuff together as a role-playing exercise and actually go through it. They were writing
the code to do this. So I guess as far as a fun project to work on is a piece of interactive
fiction or whatnot. And he wanted to see, and I actually contacted the gentleman behind this
and I actually met him in real life. He's actually down in Houston. And I have met him in real
life and discussed this and discussed it with him through email and I believe on the phone
when we did, before we did this episode. And, you know, he didn't deny it. He admitted to
it and everything. He also admitted that this particular person was a problem child on his
forms too. But I guess that's irrelevant to the story. But I explained to him that I was
kind of concerned because this member in question was very much into the project. And my concern
was that, yes, it's fake. And yes, you're not denying it. You're admitting that it's fake
and all that. But this member wasn't getting it. And he was going out and building up publicity
and bragging to people and, you know, getting into problems on other third and fourth party
forums and stuff like that, talking about it and getting a lot of hatred and flames and stuff
like that. And I was concerned that, you know, it might become a problem for him and
it might bring harm to him and reputation and stuff like that. But so what we did, what
we decided to do is after I contacted him, he admitted it was a fake and all that. We did
an episode kind of calling them out and letting everybody know that it was a fake. Now, this
is where this, it's kind of funny in the same way that Freak Factor is. And we'll come back
to Freak Factor later on as well. But it's kind of funny that we went on and we did this
episode of the show explaining that it was fake and explaining the whole interactive fiction
and all that kind of stuff. Gave the reasons and the details for it and everything. And even
with all that evidence, faced with all that evidence, the person still didn't believe that
it was fake. It was really bizarre. And I contacted the guy and he was actually, this
is the cool thing about interactive fiction or role playing or whatever is, to the guy
running it, being on a hacking radio show was great because it added to the reality of the
interactive fiction, it added to the story. So one of the things that we did, and I don't
think we've ever admitted this on the air before, so this is a nice little back story.
I actually spoke to the guy and I did think it was kind of a cool project, so I agreed
to play along with it. So on the next episode, we actually played along, talked about a little
bit more detail and kind of left the mystery out there. Is it real? Is it not real? Is it
fake? Is this really legitimate? Is it going to work? So we kind of joined in and played
along and actually became part of the story to a certain extent. And I did it all with
his knowledge and his permission and everything, so it was kind of cool that we were part of
the story. We first tried to call it out and failed apparently because no one believed
it. So then we figured, okay, fine, fuck it, we'll play along then. So that's why it was
all confusing because, you know what, nobody seemed to be able to distinguish real from
truth from fiction. Is that a something, is that a problem that hackers have?
Sorry, I think I lost you there for a second.
Actually, you know who I have trying to call me right now, speak of the devil? Decoder
is calling in. So my listeners on the microphone are hearing a beeping noise. That's Decoder and
I'm not going to go answer it.
Yeah, just as a quick follow-up to all that, if you Google the big hack, this is a really,
really old project and it looks like it's completely dead now. But on Hackback Media, you'll find
a link right off of Google that calls it collaborative fiction and talks about how you can participate
and stuff like that. So I don't know if this was, if this information was out there when
it started, but I kind of feel like it wasn't. You know, I had to lead everybody out and make
them think it was real like you were talking about.
Right, it was, it was called interactive, it was called interactive fiction is the way
they referred to it, a hackback.org I think it was called. And they actually had like a
couple other projects as well. And here we are, you know, this is, we're talking four
years ago. This is episode 200 we're recording now. We're talking four years ago. So who knows
if the site has changed that much all that time. Maybe Decoder might know something like
that, but yeah, I guess we don't have him here to ask. So, nah, Decoder wouldn't have
remembered either. He's kind of slow. Yeah, it never really took off. So, I mean, nobody
really, it was a very small, short-lived thing. It didn't take off very much. Do you see any
links there to this today that, to the other projects, the other interactive fiction topics
that they had? Well, it looks like the site is pretty much abandoned. But they do have,
when you, when you go to their website, Hackback Media, it says, they call themselves Fiction
Taken Seriously. And the big, the big hack link has an hour fiction link on the left hand
side. And when you go to that, there's three projects that they list. The big hack is beginning
mid-July, and this is July 2003. Then they have Deity 3. Yep, that was one of them.
Which is beginning December, which I guess is December 2003. And then it says, Root of
All Evil, beginning April, which I guess is April 2004. Right. And the Root of All Evil
was another hacking-themed story as well. Right. But there's no links to any of these other
than the big hack. So I don't know if they even got started back then. Right. Yeah, and they
may not have. I'm pretty sure I saw at least a website developed for it, whether it actually
was announced or started. I don't know. But, but yeah, I do think it was kind of a cool
idea. I don't know. As long, the only thing was I, the only problem I ever had was label
it as fiction because it was pulling people in. And then Raven was out recruiting other
people into this project. And they thought it was real. And it wasn't. And he didn't know
to tell them because he thought it was real as well. And it just kind of snowballed.
And a lot of people were spending time working on this project, thinking it was legitimate,
worthwhile, and believing that it was an actual loophole that was legitimate. And I don't
want to see people spend a lot of time, waste time on a project that's completely false.
I mean, we have an up top problem trying to get people involved in projects that we work
on. We don't want them to work on something that's completely fake and false and then get mad
and indignant and never work on another project again because of it. That's counterproductive.
So that was my whole issue.
Well, let's see. Let's get back on the list here. Episode 24, speaking of show novels,
you were making fun of me at the beginning. This episode 24 is where Jewel actually coined
that term. Another meme, show novels because my ridiculously long show notes. Because I really
do my research and try to put a bunch of things in there, points I want to talk about, some
more detailed than others. There were some times I would script out very detailed sentences
I wanted to cover. Sometimes, most of the time, I would just do outlines of bullet points
and stuff that I wanted to talk about. Just notepad. I mean, Not Theory has seen several
of them over the years. There's nothing but a little text file that I write in notepad.
Nothing super, super detailed.
No, it's kind of nice though because it's got that old school feel like your headings
all have like, you know, stars around them and they're an old cast.
I'm leet like that. I'm leet like that. I'll put it, you know what, should I put the ones
up for this show? I don't know. Maybe for 200. I always did want to go back and put up my
show novels compared to the show, we call show notes what the little summary that we put
on the web page, but those are, yeah, that's like a show summary. I wanted to go back and
put show notes up for every episode. At least I have them for all the ones I did again.
So, I don't know, maybe I'll put up a few of them just so people get an idea of what
they were like. Then again, maybe they don't want to see these. It may ruin the illusion.
Of course, they may see the man behind the curtain.
Exactly. But then again, if you watch and read the, have the notes up while you're listening,
you might see how much is prepared and planned out and how much I literally read off the paper
sometimes versus how much we totally freestyle out of the blue. I don't know. It might be
interesting. It might ruin the illusion. All I know is that when I write show notes, I
use it with the minus V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V. How many Vs do I put in there?
I don't know. As many as you want. Some applications will take an infinite number, I guess,
five, four billion.
Yeah. So, I've got about four billion and one Vs. I have super excelled verbose mode turned
on every time I do show notes. Let's see, 25. Now, that was the telephonic craptacular.
Not spectacular, the craptacular. Another word I coined because it was craptastic. It
was pretty, I thought that was awful. It was just, I didn't plan on doing it. It was 25.
I'm like, should I do something special for 25? Is that a weird number to reach 25? I
thought, you know, I have a bunch of recordings from just making fun phone calls here and there,
some stuff that we'd done as jokes, as some phone hacking stuff that I recorded, etc., etc.,
that were just laying around. And I thought, you know what? Wouldn't it be cool if I were
to put all these onto a show and that was it? Just, this would be the show. All these
different phone calls together. I'd put some sort of a separator in between them. But just
play phone calls, pranks, jokes, phone freaking, whatever I had laying around. So, I did that,
edited it all together. And a lot of people might not realize that this is harder to do.
You know, these other shows that are topical, that have a real topic to them, they're hard
to prepare for. But to actually record, usually we've done so much preparation, we're ready
to go, we just start recording, sound check, start recording, and we do it in an hour and
a half, non-stop. We just go start to finish, we end recording, I do a little bit of editing
and mixing, but that's it. Pretty easy to do as far as technically, as long as you've done
the proper preparation and research. Well, these telephonic craptaculars were just so
insanely time consuming because I have to edit in all of these different files, you know,
I've got 10, 20, 30, 40 files that I've saved from conferences and whatever the case may
be, and mix them together back to back. And you have to separate them some way, otherwise
you can't tell which ones, you can't tell where one ends and the other one begins, etc., etc.
So those were actually really hard to put those together. But the first one I thought was fun
and funny, and I think a few other people did too. And we decided to make that kind of a
tradition. We did it every 25 episodes for the first couple seasons. Oh, let's see. After
25, gosh, we're not even halfway through season one yet, dude. Do you realize that?
Yeah, and we've been recording for like an hour and a half, an hour and 25 minutes, which
is fine. I just didn't realize we had this many stories to go along with this shit. Did
you? No, I had no idea. I mean, it's been so long since I've thought about any of this
stuff. I know, right? It's amazing that old folks like us can still remember this far back.
Yeah, I know. Gee, thanks for making me feel old. Hey, I said old folks like us. Yeah, like
us, please. Well, listen, I'm not too old to be a pimp. Episode 27, because that was four
years ago, so maybe I'm not a pimp anymore. Not that I ever really was. But episode 27
was the legend of the cookie pimp. Kind of a joke that the guys at the Fort Lauderdale
2600 meeting used to call me because, and this I guess maybe was another meme or a long-running
myth or story about this. All right, we, like every 2600 meeting or most 2600 meeting, we met
in a mall down in Fort Lauderdale. And we were there every month, first Friday of every month,
you know, for a long time. And there was a very attractive young lady from Chile, from
Chile, as it turned out. And she worked in the Everything's a Cookie store, which is, I
don't know, what do you call them? Mrs. Fields or something like that. I don't know what they're
called. I call it an Everything's a Cookie store for obvious reasons. Everything's a cookie.
Kind of like Everything's a Dollar Store, except Everything's a Cookie. So she worked there
and she was kind of hot, you know. She was cute. Young lady, probably 17 or so at the time,
17, 18, something like that. I know she turned 18, so while I knew her. But I would go over
there occasionally and buy a cookie at our meeting, but also chat this young lady up a
little bit, make sure I keep the skills intact, you know. Not that I have a lot of them, but
I've got to keep them sharp, the ones I have. Do a little social engineering, chat her up
exactly. And you know when I say half my age, if she's 18, I'm 36, she was literally half
my age. That's cool.
A little under it. And I would, I'd go over there and I would chat her up for a little
while. We'd laugh. She was a nice girl and everything. And some of the other guys at the
meeting would kind of give me a hard time and joke about it and saying that, you know,
oh, you couldn't get her and you're not really chatting to her. You're just, you know, she's
just waiting on you or whatever. And, you know, so they basically challenged me over there,
why don't you go over there and get some free food from her. So, all right. Well, I walked
over there, laid my Mac down. I come back a few minutes later with a whole bag full of
cookies for everybody in the group.
Nice.
Score, right? You know, she's my homegirl. We were cool. So, I went over there, came back
a whole box of cookies for everybody at the meeting. And it was funny because they're
all looking back over at her and she's waving. And it was really cool. So, really fun. And
yeah, I can get whatever anytime I wanted. I'm not going to take advantage of her giving
me free stuff all the time to get her in trouble. But, you know, get some free cookies and an
icy or something like that every once in a while. That was nice. So, that began the ongoing
relationship with the cookie girl. And, you know, contrary to a lot of jokes and contrary
to maybe popular belief, we've mentioned it on the show a few times that, you know,
when I talked to her and stuff. But, no, I never actually had a real relationship with
this young lady. Like I said, she was half my age. But, yeah, I couldn't bring myself.
I don't know. Are you going to yell at me about this? I couldn't bring myself to go past
chatting her up and free cookies. I didn't want to go from free cookie to free nookie.
She's friendly with you and willing to give you free stuff. And she's 18 years old and she's
from chili and she's hot. Well, Decoder yelled at me. Decoder yelled at me for not hitting
it. That's... Yeah, I can't really see a reason why you wouldn't. Because I felt that. I'm an
old dude. Yeah, I know. But that'll keep you young, having sex with young chicks. Yeah,
well, you sound a lot like Decoder. Yeah, I know. It's scary. I know, right? Well, she
did bake me a very nice, one of those great big cake cookies and wrote my name on it, said
goodbye and all that kind of stuff when I moved away. So, she was really nice. So, I would
have felt really bad, you know. Yeah. So, no, nothing ever happened. She was a nice young
lady and she stayed that way. Thank you. I have a little bit of respect for the members
of the female persuasion. I don't believe it. Apparently... You've got a whole bunch
of little cookie monsters running around you don't even know about. Oh, yeah. Well, I
hope not. Oh, man. That would suck. Hopefully, there's only one of me in the world because
if I've ever found the other one, I'd have to kill him. Let's see. Episode 28 showed, I
guess, that hackers may have a little appreciation and talent for music. Bland actually reveals
his guitar skills and made some tracks downloadable. I think we closed with one of them on this.
I don't know. I think we talked about music a little bit on this and people may not know
that Bland and Quisser is actually trained in classical guitar. I actually went to college,
got a degree in music. A lot of people don't know that about him. I, personally, I can read
music. I can play the piano. Not real well, but I took piano lessons for several years when
I was young. Yeah, you know, some band geeks, I guess. We have some former band members
in the DDT. Actually, I think we probably have enough to make... Can you play an instrument?
Besides the skin flute?
Uh, not exactly, no.
Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh.
Uh, well, not very... Well, you can play the jug. You can play the jug band.
I can play the jug. I could be the, uh, death metal screaming voice. That's no problem.
Dude, oh, you got... All right, while we keep going, you got to look up which episode that
was.
System Shock Store.
It's got to be in the show notes there somewhere. I don't think we've passed it yet.
Um...
No, I don't think so either.
Yeah, we have, um, point, point, I guess, that, you know, we have other skills, and that's
something else. I don't, don't want to be pigeonholed like hackers are all, you know, there's
that stereotype that we're all a bunch of 16-year-old pimply-faced kids in our basement and with the
lights off and, you know, no, actually, we're a pretty, pretty wide variety of skills and
interests and stuff like that. Hackers can be musicians. We can have an appreciation for
music, appreciation for art, talents in music and art and other things. We're not just
sitting in front of the computer all the time. That's a huge, huge myth. So that's
something we always tried to quell. Don't pigeonhole us as these tech nerds that don't
do anything else. We have a lot of skills and interests outside of computers. Now, that
being said, I do spend a lot of time in front of the computer. I'm not going to lie about
that, but, you know.
Speaking of music, episode 29 is another long-running stank joke at my expense, I guess. I admitted
on the show my obsession with American Idol. So, yes, everybody over the years has had
a few shots and jokes at my expense for watching American Idol, but I don't care what you say,
Simon Cowell is the man. He makes the show worth watching. He is so awesome. So, everything
else is secondary. If he wasn't on the show, I wouldn't like it. I like that show and I
like Hell's. You ever watch Hell's Kitchen? Gordon Ramsay? Oh, that's a good show, too.
So, it's always about the host. If the host is interesting and good and knows what he's
talking about, that's what makes the show good. Honesty.
Oh, let's see. Episode 31. 31 was our first on-air three-way.
Interesting.
Is that getting you hot?
Okay.
Am I getting you hot yet?
No.
No? Not at all?
Not at all.
This is one where we broke away from our normal format. You know, I was always rigid
about having two hosts on the show. Equal co-hosts. Not a host and a guest. Two co-hosts
that could always, you know, even though I may be the one that talks and introduces the
date and the episode number and stuff like that. Always co-hosts on the show. Two people.
You could always have different viewpoints. You could debate. You could agree. You could
disagree, et cetera, et cetera. I always thought that was the dynamic that worked. But at the
same time, even with the show notes ahead of time and the guests ahead of time, I always
still was able to flow with the spontaneity that may come up along the way. So even though
we have show notes, show novels prepared ahead of time and topics, we also would completely
freestyle. We'd go off topic. Sometimes we would not even have time for the main topic
because we'd get sidetracked. But I always liked that about the show, too. It's great to
have show notes and stuff that you want to cover. But never rein yourself in from good
and interesting topics and conversation if they happen to come up. You've got to be willing
to go with it. So you've got to be dynamic enough to adapt. Maybe that's social engineering.
Maybe that's just adaptability in general. Hackers being able to adapt and kind of roll with
the flow. So this episode, we kind of pushed that because we decided the three-way Bland onto
the show at the last minute, or actually in the middle of the show, was not in the show
notes, was never intended. We just, you know, that's how we roll on Binary Revolution Radio.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And very shortly after that, after Duel and Bland and I doing the three-way,
are you hot yet? Uh, now I'm a little bit, since you said Duel. Okay, a little bit hotter, okay.
A few episodes after that, episode 34 was the first Binary Revolution Radio episode after
RFA ended. RFA's final episode was just before this. RFA lasted for two years to the very day.
And at this point, on Binary Revolution Radio, we could only hope to make it that far. We
were on episode 34, not even through a full season yet, so boy, if we could make it another
two years. And that was kind of the goal, is RFA for two years, Binary Revolution Radio
for two years, and then maybe something else. New shows starting up and lasting for two years.
Somebody taking the torch, so to speak, and starting up a new show that would last for a few
more years. Um, we ended up going four, so whether that's good or bad, I guess the audience
can be the judge of that. But, um, and on episode 35 is when we debuted the DDD Hack Radio server.
First 24-7 radio station for all hacking content all the time. A lot of shows had come up. Like
I said, we encouraged people to do shows. Um, RFA was ending, but we had, of course, the archive of
RFA shows. Weekly, new weekly episodes of Binary Revolution Radio would debut on DDP Hack Radio and
Rant Radio. Um, a lot of other great shows, and that are, some of them are still running today. Some
of them have fallen to the wayside, like Default Radio. We would always stream Default Radio on the
show. A little something called Freak Factor on the show. Um, there were so many of them out there
that we actually put together a 24-7 radio station, which is actually pretty hard. Uh, a little
back story to that. A lot of people may think that that's something that's easy to do. There are a lot
of other hacking sites that have created their own radio station 24-7 that maybe knew about us. Maybe
they created it not knowing that we already exist or whatever or thought they could do it better, but
they all run into the same problem. And I know you're familiar. You realize this as well because
you've worked with this product before, but the software out there, Shoutcast or Icecast or whatever
you use, is great and simple to set up and just stream a bunch of MP3 files from a playlist. Randomly,
set them in sequence to, you know, whatever your playlist you want to set up. It'll play a set number of
files one after the other. What it won't do out of the box is play shows at a scheduled set start time.
And you can do some hokery-pokery to set up Cron to start or kick off something at a certain time,
and you'd have to kick the stream and then have it forcibly start a news show. You could do that.
Um, but even that was cumbersome and not really a most dynamic solution, and it would require
everybody having access to go in there and access Cron and make the changes to launch off their program.
And since the file name changed every week with the number in the title or other things,
sometimes changing differently, not even the number, something else in the title changed
in the file name. So that wasn't the easiest solution. So Nick 85 and I talked about it and Nick
all pretty much all on his own, croat all of the code and a whole custom system for us
that he and I designed that would allow hosts to easily connect to a server through an administration
interface and easily upload and subsequently schedule their show. We sent us, uh, we give them the right
authority and everything. They could set up their show to start at a predetermined time. They would
upload it and then when that time came, it would automatically play at that time. And then later on,
the ability that they could connect at a predetermined time, kick the stream that was playing when
their designated time was, and actually stream live shows. That was used for the Linux link text show
and for Freak Factor. Those are two shows that would be playing, you know, if there's, if there's not
a scheduled show running, it would play random stuff on the, what we call the fallback rotation, which was, uh,
reruns basically, for lack of a better word. And when it was time for a scheduled show to come on,
the prime time, eight o'clock, nine o'clock, whatever the case may be. Um, and just to hear
the little note of trivia, Binary Revolution Radio always started on that date and time
because that's when we set up to start with Rant Radio from episode one and we just never changed
it. Rant Radio was always good to us and they had us penciled into that slot. So we've always stayed
there and never changed in case anybody ever wondered about that. So, um, the, um, yeah,
I gotta, I gotta admit, I've, I've played with, uh, the streaming software to get Freak Factor
up and running and man, it's, it's all really garbage. And what you're talking about, you know,
having an interface deal for those scheduled shows and things like that, like, without that, it's
so hard to use that garbage. You can pay money and get commercial software that'll do all that stuff.
A lot of money. Oh yeah. And it's, it's really frustrating because if, uh, if you're streaming
something to the server and then you disconnect and then reconnect something else, um, you know,
all the people who were connected in the old version of Shotcast, I don't know if the new one
fixes this, but they all get disconnected because there was nothing for it to stream. Like, weird
problems like that just make it really annoying to try to get everything up and running. So I have
mad respect for, uh, for Look84 and, and all the code that he wrote to get the thing up and running.
It's, it's amazing that, uh, that nobody's done it before. And he just kind of, he's like,
all right, whatever needs to be done, I'll just do it. And worked it up and it works to this day.
And you know, Nick has always been great about that. Nick is definitely a, okay, I'll do it
kind of guy. So he's done so much great stuff. Um, and actually, yeah, there is, there is software
out there, but it is expensive, thousands of dollars. And I think on top of that, like, uh,
annual renewal fees and stuff like that, licensing and whatnot, and they're all windows based.
And yeah, we're not running a windows server. So those do us no good. Uh, Rant Radio, uh, actually
was using a pay solution. I don't remember which one, but I had talked to, um, uh, Smokehouse back
in the day in Sumerian and asked them about it. And, um, yeah, they were using, I forget what it was,
but they were using, uh, something to do their scheduling with. Because we wanted to know how they
do it to see if we could do something similar. But, uh, yeah, we had to do it, design it all
from scratch. And I still to this day haven't seen anybody else who did not, who have designed
anything like that. Um, yeah. And, and that station, one of the things about it was we had
default radio there and binary revolution radio, Radio Freak America, Freak Factor, four of the biggest
shows at the time, you know, all on that were debuting and streaming, not some exclusively,
some not exclusively on DDP hack radio. There was actually reason to come in and listen to this
all the time. And then they would get added to the fallback rotation or the reruns. And you can
listen to them all day long at work the next day or over the course of the next days, which is what
I used to like. I listened to our own station all the time while I was at work listening to reruns
of the shows that I had missed the previous nights. So I always enjoyed listening to it. So I hope,
hope other people did as well. Uh, let's see. Uh, 38. Oh, 38, uh, 38 was just kind of funny because
we always make this joke about how there's no female listeners, no female hackers, and
probably another one of my alienate all of the female listener moments. I used the phrase
Breastuses on the show for the first time. So I'm sure that might not be, yeah, in retrospect,
I could see why maybe there aren't as many female hackers listening to the show.
Uh, bad mood, dude. Yeah.
Like, you know what? Even if he didn't say it, it's not like they're going to get interested
because he didn't say it. There's a little more so than that.
I don't know. Is that, hmm, I don't know. I, I, you know what? It, I, I just, I've chalked that up to
the same reason that I dropped the, the language every once in a while. You know, I don't think it's
like intentional. If it fits into the, what I'm talking about, then I'll say words or whatever. And
I don't know. Breastuses, I say it all the time in real life, so it just slipped out. I don't know.
I'm sure I used it quite a few other episodes since then.
Uh, let's see. Somewhere along, see, right along in that, that, uh, numbering, like 41 and 42,
for example, there was some, there were some big internet events that were going on, like the
launch of Gmail. That was a huge thing still to this day. I mean, look at how big Gmail is.
Um, Microsoft tried to buy Google around that same time. So gosh, if you could imagine what
that could have turned out like four years ago, Google was big, but they weren't what they are now.
They were still within the realm of possibilities that they could be bought out by a Microsoft or
somebody. And I think Yahoo even had put in a bid or something, but man, could you imagine if they
would have? That could be scary today. Now, Google, I mean, I know you're no Google fan, but, um,
it would be a lot worse than it is now. Right. And as I say, Google, it has gotten too big
for their britches. They have grown too big in my opinion, but on their own, if they would have
been part of Microsoft as well, yikes, that could have been really interesting. I want to go down,
go back in time and see what happens down an alternate reality path or something and see how
it happens in an alternate world. But this was kind of the beginning. This was, uh, what was this? 2004 by now.
And was the beginning of my whole anti Google sentiments as Google was growing.
And the way that whole merger almost happened got me realizing how big Google was and how they
were growing and Gmail coming in and the controversy of them putting ads in the email and people were
all up in arms about, are they reading email? Are they not reading emails? It just automatically system
robots, you know, going in there looking for keywords, et cetera, et cetera.
And got me looking into it and realizing that Google was starting to gather a lot of information
on people and people really should know that. That's all like nothing. Not that there was anything
necessarily wrong with it per se, just that people probably don't realize that how much stuff they're
getting Google. So I started pointing it out back then and everybody thought I was this big,
crazy conspiracy theorist like decoder, but for other reasons. But, um, now here we are four
years later and you see all kinds of people starting to finally open their eyes that yeah,
Google's big. Google is big brother right now. Google has so much information and tracking so much stuff
and logging and analyzing it. People are finally starting to see that Google is a threat to privacy
and that's all I really ever really wanted in the first place. So it took everybody three and a half
years to catch up, but at least people are seeing it now. And I guess the question now is, is it too
late? What can be done about it, if anything, or whether it should be done? I guess it's a point of debate as
well. Um, episode 43, another alienate all female listeners episode probably, um, was when I told
the story about how my friend got chicks naked for free on his couch in his room. And yeah, just go
listen to that episode. That's all I can really say. Yeah, you know, now that you mentioned it,
I gotta go back and listen to that myself. Yeah, that was, um, good times. Very, very, very interesting.
That guy was, he was a trip. He was fun. He was funny. That was a pretty, I never ever thought
that that could actually work. And yeah, anyway, go listen to that episode. Um, 44, politics on binary
revolution radio. Oh no's. Don't we have an anti-politics rule? One of the things we always
insisted on not doing politics on binary revolution radio that was covered by other shows.
Very well, very thoroughly, and every quarter in the magazine, and et cetera, et cetera.
So, we always had a rule against it. So, just the title alone of this episode about the Patriot Act
was very political in nature, but we were very careful, and we tried to just sort of address
this political topic as it relates to hackers and technology and avoid getting into the whole
politics and discussion of war. Again, this was when war was the big topic everywhere that everybody
was talking about. We were always careful over the years to try to walk the line on these borderline
political topics, because that's one thing that we never ever wanted the show to be.
Um, however, that being said, that kind of led us to episode 46. I mean, we did, we certainly
weren't without controversy over the years, and 46 was our friend Kevin Rose comes back into the game
again. This whole Kevin Rose controversy, as it were. Um, this was the episode, and you probably
remember this one. I think you do. This was the episode where we called Kevin Rose out. Kevin Rose,
of course, was, uh, from, uh, the screensavers, or that's what it was called, right? The show on
Tech TV that we talked about earlier. Now, I had already been seeing in my logs hits from Tech TV. I
know that they were coming from that Tech TV site, was browsing our forums, browsing our website,
listening to the radio show, um, and how convenient that a lot of our topics were showing up on there,
being presented by someone else, and never ever giving credit. Well, you know what?
A lot of that could be coincidence. I can't come out and point my finger and say, you absolutely did
this, or absolutely did that. It's just convenient that we talk about, um, this topic on the show,
and then you talk about the same topic a few days later, or a week later on your show. I get an article
published in 2600 Magazine about this topic, and then you present that same topic, and almost, uh, the
exact examples that I used in my article, and you present them as a dark tip on Tech TV's, the screensavers.
So, okay, you know what? It's pretty obvious what's happening here. All I ever said was give a little
credit to it, so that is the only thing that I've ever said, and I kind of said that earlier,
and I still say that to this day. Well, in this episode, there was the first of a couple of obvious
examples, and this episode we took issue with Kevin Rose because he presented on the screensavers a
stun glove, which, um, we had just recently had in the forum X-Logic talk about, and he had talked
about on the radio show, uh, had talked about it actually on one of the last episodes of RFA,
and in the forums in detail, and gave all the, um, information, including the exact brand of camera
and battery that he used to build the stun glove. That's not something that's really coincidental.
So, there's been many topics that have been over on the screensavers after they had been on my
articles, or have to have been on our site. Well, the stun glove, he demonstrated on there,
using the exact brand of camera, disposable camera, with the batteries and everything,
the exact same thing that, that X-Logic had given the detail on the forums. That's too coincidental to
happen. And then, even bigger, and again, this is, again, nothing related to that whole hack TV,
the broken controversy, which we said earlier was not a big deal. Maybe some people tried to put
two and two together or build it, but it wasn't the case. But what really crossed the line
was when Kevin Rose presented the segment on, um, the screensavers again on mag cards, magnetic
strike cards, for example, credit cards and things of that nature, where he actually quoted,
word for fucking word, from Acidus' site. Acidus is the person who wrote Stripe Snoop and had given
a presentation and written an article on magnetic cards, how they worked, how you could read information,
how you could build a reader and put them in and see what's on the cards and then the computer,
scan it into your computer and save them and everything. He wrote the directions on how to build
them. He wrote the software on how to read and gain that data. And he wrote an exposition
in his article on the web page of how to do it. And Kevin Rose went on and presented this information
on the screensavers word for word from Acidus' website. That's not coincidental. Word for word. And I'm not
talking about two or three words. I'm talking about paragraphs of information. His whole introduction
was word for word, the introduction paragraph from Acidus' site. And Acidus and I both agree and said,
you know what? That isn't a problem. Taking it and presenting it, that's great. Hackers believe in
sharing information, the free flow of information. The problem was that he presented word for word,
presented the topic, the software, and not once, not a single time, mentioned Acidus by name.
And that is wrong. You have to give people credit.
And that might only be... I know you said, sorry, I know you said you called him out on this. Did
anybody try to contact him directly? I mean, it's obvious that he was listening to the show. So if
he said something on the show, he probably heard it. But did anybody like contact Tech TV? I think
that would have been really interesting. Yes, and actually it did. And what happened was on the
they have, I guess, for that show. And again, the other thing is, I didn't even have cable
television at the time. I didn't even watch TV back then. But on the website for the show,
I guess it's a daily show. And each day they would have a recap and segments and clips from all the
show and everything. So on the page for that day's show, where that topic was, about three or four
days after our episode aired, and I probably, or somebody, the air date of this, if you just go
looking and probably do some Googling. I assume it's still on their site. They put up a notice,
and it said, update. We were contacted by several people that this information was presented somewhere
else from someone else. And we want to clarify that we had no knowledge of this. So they basically,
they denied it. I don't remember what their wording was, but they denied it. That is to say,
the Stun Glove. The Stun Glove, not the Stripe Snoop. Not the, not Acidus' thing. I don't know if
they ever responded to that one or not.
But you know what? Kevin Rose is a multi-millionaire, multi-billionaire, paper
billionaire by now. Stock options and all that kind of stuff, I'm sure. But he, you know,
it doesn't matter if he has any credibility as a hacker anymore. When you've got fuck you money,
it does, who cares if he's got any, he doesn't have any credibility in the hacking scene.
But who cares? I wouldn't care either if I had fuck you money.
That's true. Although, I mean, I imagine the people who go to dig, they, they worship him.
Oh, they do.
They think dig is the greatest thing in the world.
Absolutely. Kevin, Kevin Rose could wipe his ass and then sell the toilet paper on eBay.
Yep. Hey, I don't know how he managed to pull it off. I don't know how he made dig so popular,
but I wish I had that one ability. That'd be really nice to have.
He farmed it out. Someone else did the code and programming and stuff behind it.
Well, yeah, but there was still, I mean, promotion involved. And it's just because
you have somebody program a site for you doesn't mean it's going to be popular. Now,
granted, I think he started dig when he was on tech TV. So I'm sure he used that platform
somewhat to let people know about it. And that had a lot to do with, with it getting started.
But still, the site's huge now. And the site makes a lot of money. So, whether you like
him or not, making a site that makes a lot of money like that is impressive.
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm sure he, the, um, the, um, notoriety or the fame or the credit,
the, the fact that he was on TV brought a whole lot of that attention over there. So he had an easy
built-in audience. So that made it really easy. But you know what? I, I still, I, I know what you're
saying. I don't necessarily disagree, but let's use the example, um, of, of DDP hack radio I mentioned
earlier. Hey, I give all the credit in the world. Nick 84 wrote all that stuff. You know,
he and I worked out the idea. You know, I had the idea that, that, well, we can do this and
can't we just use this? And I even said, Hey, what about ice cast? And how can we make it?
Doesn't it need to be dynamic for this and that? And Nick 84 is the one that made it happen. He deserves
all the credit in the world for that. I just, it seems to me, once again, it's the not giving credit
thing. If I was running dig.com, I would make sure that my programmers get a lot of credit for
that. I would make sure that their name was as well known as mine, if not more so. Wait a second.
Now, right before we started recording, you told me that you wrote all that code. Are you changing
your story? Well, I, that was before the microphone and the phone and now we're recording. So, um,
yeah, let's come back to that later. Um, yeah, I'll, I'll edit that part out. I hear what you're saying
about giving credit. Um, I don't know the first thing about, I don't know. I'm not saying that
he's right at all for, I mean, obviously if you stole something word for word and then denied or
didn't deny, but just didn't acknowledge it at all. That's not right. But I mean,
as far as the people who program big, nobody really cares, you know, they were just getting
paid to do a job probably. Yeah. But God, you're going to have some integrity in life, man.
Yeah. Golly. I'd rather be, I'd rather be broke and have integrity than be a millionaire without a soul.
I'm sorry. That's just whatever. Okay. Well that, that brings me to an interesting point.
Okay. So he did these things that you don't like
and he became wildly popular and he, you know, everybody says that he's made a lot of money.
I'm not really sure that he's actually made the money yet. He probably have a lot of stock in,
uh, in dig and revision three, whatever his network is. Um, but I don't know that it's really
worth all that much. Like nobody's really, I mean, people have invested money, but I don't know
that he's gotten that money directly. You know, I think it's all gone back to the company.
Well, that's what that's. So eventually he'll have a ton of money.
Right. But now the question is, okay, we're always talking about, we want people to go out
and produce things, make, make videos and make shows and all that kind of stuff.
Well, revision three has a lot of shows. Now, whether you like the shows or not,
is it good or bad that these shows exist?
Well, I think you're branching off of dig.com and going into a different topic. So you're
comparing apples and oranges, but, um, the difference is the people that are doing the
shows on revision three, is that what it's called? Um, they have their names and get credit for the
shows they're doing. That's my one and only beef is it makes sure that people get credited for the
work that they do. You know, that's my only thing. So the nature of those shows is the host is
seen. There's no way really for him to steal that credit. He can do it with other things
and present stuff on his own behalf. But I guess the only way to make, to make that question
appropriate or to fit into the scenario is how would you feel if you found out that he stole
one of those scripted shows, like one of the comedies or something like that, that he completely,
someone else had done it last year and it wasn't as popular as well known. And he just completely
redid it under his name without ever getting credit or mention to the original. That's what's
going on.
I think that, I think my question is really like, he did all these things and got himself
started, but then he used his money to make all of, he didn't make the shows, but he's using this
money to pay these other people to make these shows. So some people blindly hate this guy so much
that no matter what he does, it's bad. And I think that's kind of silly. Like whether you like him in the past,
the question is, if you hated him in the past or you disliked him in the past,
what do you think of the money that he's putting into these shows now? Do you dislike the shows
just based on the fact that they're connected to him? Or are you willing to say, you know what,
screw it, at least something good came out of it. Because that's kind of the way I look at it.
All right, no. All right, I'll go with that. No, I don't hate him for that. I think,
I don't like the show's contents. Actually, some of them are okay. Some of them are better than others. But
yeah, Dignation is one of those shows I've said many times, I don't like shows that just read the
news to me. If I wanted to see what the top five stories on Digg were, you know what I'd do? I'd go
to Digg. I don't need to. Yeah, you wouldn't have to download like 120 megabytes of video. Yeah.
I mean, seriously, I just, that's what I mean. I don't like the content of it, but I'm certainly
not hating on him for doing it or for creating a website where he can put a bunch of content out
there. That's good, providing content. But it's, there's also motives involved. And I don't know,
my motive is to get content out there and to get people producing stuff. I don't charge money. I
don't make money because that's what I'm about. And someone else taking advantage of my community
and trying to make money off of them. You know, The Broken was not a show because, and this is my
opinion, of course, The Hack TV was a show that we wanted people to participate in. We always begged
people to record some stuff. Let's put a show out as a community, as a group. A few people actually
did it. We ended up doing most of the recording and filming, but it was a community-based thing.
It was always free and there was never any thought or concept of money in it. The Broken was made to
sell t-shirts. The Broken t-shirt link was on the first page of the site. You know, it was all about
making some money off selling t-shirts. Now, the web, as it were, has turned into a different
financial world or economy, I don't know what the word it is, where the money's in advertising. So,
it's in his best interest. So, you think he's doing it out of the goodness of his heart to provide
content to the hacking community or to the internet community? Or do you think he's doing it so he can
make money off of Google Ads? I call it Jason Calacanis syndrome. You know, hiring people,
I don't think he's as bad as Calacanis as far as that goes, but hiring people and paying him slave
wages while you roll in the millions, hey, I'll host your show for free, I'll put it on my site,
help promote it a little bit, and I'll give you a little bit of scratch so that I can put ads all
over the site and make a whole lot of scratch for myself. That's not really something to be proud of in
my book. I mean, I know that's a common business model now. Calacanis made
bajillions of dollars selling it out to Yoohoo and stuff like that by paying bloggers slave wages
for stuff they were already doing, you know, and him keeping and bragging about how many millions he
made. That is not a source of pride to me. I would be shamed if I did that. I would never do that.
Of course, it's easy for me to say that, but I don't think I'd ever do that. I couldn't live with
myself. I have a conscience and I have some integrity. I try to. Right. No, I think that
you hit the nail on the head. I don't know that Kevin Rose has the same motives as everybody else
in the scene. I don't know about, I know Jason Calacanis from what I've heard. He's definitely,
he's all about the money. Mahalo, that site that he started up, I hate to give it any type of
attention, but you know, they're paying people like, from what I hear, like $30,000 a year or
something to sit there and, you know, wrap all these web pages up and write reviews and things
like that. It's just, it's just ridiculous. I don't know if the financials are big or I don't know,
you know, revision three. I don't know how much those people get paid, but I don't, I couldn't say
in the top of my head that they're getting ripped off. And I imagine people who are joining big now,
hopefully they'd be getting, they'd be getting decent wages, but that's, that's not it, you know, there.
And I don't know, and I'm not, I don't even want to go any further into this. I'm not throwing
accusations and just to reiterate, I don't have a hatred for Kevin Rose. I do not. There's no war
between he and I. I don't, you know, I'm not, couldn't care less, frankly. We're in two different
worlds. It's just that he has no credibility in my world, just like I'm sure I have no credibility
in his. So, you know, that's all I have to say about that. Yeah, fair enough. I just, you know,
I like to kind of play devil's advocate just to make sure that people know that, you know,
we don't hate anybody really for, uh, I mean, you have to do a lot to make us, to make us hate you.
Uh, but I just want to let people know that we, we do definitely look at, at both sides of it.
And I, we're not the type of people to hold grudges. So we just want to make sure that
everybody's got all the information. So I got to sit here and play devil's advocate.
Oh, and I, exactly. And that's why I wanted to bring this up on the show to clarify. I,
you know, I don't, I know people think, and that's why I said there was the whole hack TV
broken thing. And then there was the, um, you know, me calling him out for this incident and,
uh, and presenting my articles and some of my Google content and et cetera, et cetera,
without ever giving any credit for it. You know what? I'm just saying give credit where credit is due.
That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I don't hate him. I'm not going to,
you know, kill him in his sleep or anything. You know, I don't have any hatred for the guy.
I just don't have a whole lot of respect for him as a hacker. Now, I guess maybe,
I can't even say he's a businessman because I don't know enough about it, but if he's got
Calacanis syndrome, then no, I don't have any respect for Calacanis for sure either. So,
I don't know. I don't have any beef with him. You know, I don't, like you said,
I'm not trying to hate on him. There are other people, you know what,
you stab me in the back, you turn on me at the drop of a hat. Those are the kind of people I,
there are people who have done worse things to me than Kevin Rose. That's,
that's the easiest way to say it. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So that's,
that's going to wrap up season one. Episode 52, of course, was our one year anniversary.
So that was our big milestone for us. We wrapped up season one and it took us longer to talk about
season one on this episode than it probably did to record some of the episodes.
Um, I don't know, man, you take a breath and give it a shot at season two. What do you think?
Uh, man, this is going to be a long show, but I, this is fun. I think we're getting a lot,
I think people are hearing a lot of stuff they might not have ever heard or known about.
Yeah. I think we may want to, we may want to go through season two a little faster, but.
All right. Well, let's speed up here. Let's jump into season two, which was
kind of started off knowing everybody know that I actually was certifiable,
not certifiably insane or certified ethical hacker. And I went into a little rant about that.
So go back and listen to episode 53. If you want to hear more about that, we won't rehash that one.
And in lieu of time, but the short version is that, uh, there's, you know, colleges, for example,
have to be accredited, accredited by, uh, uh, an organization that sets standards for what all,
what a college education should teach and should contain at least certain parameters so that not
any Joe, Bob, Tom, Dick, and Harry can go out and create a college or call it a college and hand out
degrees. There's no such thing for certification. So some of them, like a Microsoft certification,
Microsoft issues it, that's kind of appropriate. But I got something called a certified ethical hacker
that came from some organization that I don't know who in the world they are to authorize what's
a certified ethical hacker or not. They don't, they're not hackers, so they don't know hacker
ethic. They're forcing some other ethic on me, ethic on me. And I don't know, take any kind
of certification with a grain of salt. If they're big ones from Oracle, Microsoft, things like that,
then they probably have a little bit more credibility. But check into who's generating
these certifications to see if they're really worth the paper they're printed on. Or if frankly,
they came from me and I just started the website on my, on a page. And I promise you that we're
legitimate. But a lot of people probably don't care.
Would you?
I don't know. I'm a, I can't, I can't really tell you how I feel about certifications. I think they're
just, they're just garbage. You know, take a class so you can learn something. But don't, don't take it
with the goal of getting a certification. Certifications are just ridiculous.
Yeah. Well, you always take it for the goal of getting the knowledge. That's what it's about.
Learning the content.
Let's see. How about episode 56? That was a favorite of mine. Acidus, who I mentioned
earlier, he debuts on Binary Revolution Radio. Acidus and I had met at some conferences. We
met at Freak Nick. We met at Hope a few times. We'd become pretty, pretty good friends just from
meeting at the conferences every year. A couple of different conferences and started talking,
communicating through email, working on some projects together. So it was good to get him on
the show for the first of many times. Episode 57. Is this one, I think, let me see, 57. Were you on
that one? Yeah, I think I was. I, I'm, that was the one. 57 was the database. Well, was, it was just
called databases in general. And that one was kind of a touchy topic for me only because I always been
hesitant to talk about it. It took a whole season before we went into this topic. And that's because
that's basically my job, my day-to-day livelihood. That's what I do for a living.
And I was always kind of nervous about dropping too many docs about it or getting into too much
detail. And, and I still don't go into a whole lot of detail about it to this day. You and I talk
about database programming all the time on the phone, but we rarely did shows about them, at least
this early. We finally broke down and started doing more of them because people did seem to like
them and were getting useful information. But this was the first one where we ever actually broke that,
that line and actually tried to start talking about those type things. Because databases are where it's
at, man. Oh yeah, I definitely agree. Databases give you a, give you the ability to do a lot of
things that otherwise are just such a hassle to do. So being able to tie it together and have
a consistent way to store it and, you know, being able to ship it, you know, back and forth between
servers with a common protocol. It's just great. ODBC, JDBC. Um, I don't even know how I could write
pretty much any application without a database. Maybe some people believe, oh, you don't need a
database. You can just store your data in a text file. But, you know, if I do, you don't have a
database, you're pretty much screwed. Yeah, that always amazes me. Even still to this day, people
will use text files or a CSV file or something as their database. Which I guess if it's very
simplistic, I mean, that's basically like reading a .com file for your configuration. Eh, it's fine,
it's just configuration. You're just pulling something into memory one time, no problem. But
actually storing and reading and writing data to a text file or a CSV file or something like that,
come on. Oh, yeah. Well, if you're writing, I mean, it's ridiculous. If you've got a live
application used by more than one person and you're trying to write to a CSV, you know, all the
file locking and stuff like that, that just gets in the way. But if you have something that doesn't
really have any relationships, maybe CSV's okay. But let's take, for example, your website, Bell's
Mine. Could you imagine? Okay, it's really my website, but whatever. I just perpetuate that a little
longer. But could you imagine, I mean, there's a lot, there's not that many tables in the database,
but there's so many rows that are interrelated and there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes,
just pulling back one result. And it happens really fast, but if I had to do that with text files,
the site would absolutely never work. Yeah, when you, especially the larger volume of data you have,
man, you've got to have indexes and you've got to have efficient ways to read and write that data or
it's going to bring your system to its knees. And, well, go back and listen to that episode
and you'll learn all about that kind of stuff. And any of the other database episodes we kind
of built on from there, we did some comparisons of Postgres to your favorite MySQL.
Oh, yeah, the ultimate.
Mm-hmm. You know what?
Speaking of MySQL, did you hear that Google has pledged to give a lot of programming time
and code to MySQL? I think that's crazy.
Yeah, yeah. At least admit this, though. Even MySQL is better than writing to a text file
or a CSV file or something like that. At least it's better. It's something.
You know, I would normally say yes, but I'm pretty sure that MySQL does just use
CSV and text files.
Oh, that was wrong. I'm glad we don't have another episode to get hate mail back for that.
No, well, let me just, you know, let me just state again very quickly. My problem with MySQL is that
I tried to build a big database back in the day with it, and it just, you know,
it was read and write, lots and lots of rows. It just didn't work. And, you know,
there were a lot of things that were really clunky about it. It was missing a lot of features that
I've, you know, grown dependent on. As I've learned more about databases, not using them as a crush,
they're not silly features. They're important things like views and still procedures. Now,
yes, MySQL supports all that now, but I just prefer Postgres as a little more mature. You know,
they take the database design a little more seriously, I think, and more standards compliant.
Postgres is missing things that MySQL has, like Postgres doesn't have simple replication and stuff
like that. But, you know, you take the good with the bad, and right now Postgres fits my needs.
That's why I like it. And like I said, I would never hate the MySQL people. I just,
I think that their database is purposed differently than mine. So, that's where I stand on it.
Oh, let's see. 57, 58. Another first time co-host, Desius. He does his first episode. Another
guy from the ATL, Atlanta, who again, same circles that we ran in with Acidus Desius. We're good
friends. And, oh my gosh, a lot of great people from the southeast region that I met and always meet
up at, we met at Freak Nick. And again, running to Desius at just about every conference every
year. So, we always say hi to him too. So, this is another good episode. And, you know,
Desius might be a little surprised to hear this, or I don't know, embarrassed or whatever. But
when I met him the first time, Desius is a big guy. Desius is tall. He's kind of,
what's the word, big bone. He's just a big, intimidating kind of guy. Physically,
when I first met him, I was like, damn dude, don't kill me and eat me or anything. You know,
it's like, he's a big dude when you meet him in real life. But he's just a really nice guy and
brilliant. He's got this wild hairdo going on. He's got, you know, this long hair. And
when I first met him, some of the people in the, let's see, how can I phrase this carefully? I
guess, fuck it, I'm not going to phrase anything carefully. There are some people in the southeast
region hacking circles that are the very problem with hacking. These people that are just probably
my age or around my age that are the old school elitists that think, I've been in the scene X number
of years. I've been in the scene since you were in diapers, kid. I've been cloning phones since you
were a baby kind of attitude and feel like they're owed something and they're elite for the simple fact
of their age and being in the scene so long or whatever and talk down to people and are negative
and just have that elitist attitude that I hate in the scene. And he is definitely not one of those
people. So I was really happy to have become friends with Acidus and Desius and Rattle and some of
those guys because they absolutely are not those people, even though there are some other people
in that circle of friends who I do completely disagree with their philosophies on hacking. But
they're not the ones I had on the show. I had the guys on the show that are just really, really good
people. Oh, here you go. Episode number 59. This is one of your favorites, I think. One of your favorite
co-hosts anyway. The co-host on episode 59 talks more than anybody I've ever met in my entire life
on planet Earth. And of course, that's Jason Scott. Jason Scott can talk and talk and talk. Like,
I talk a lot and I admit that. I can freely just ramble on. But boy, Jason Scott, who I've known for
several years also from conferences and stuff like that. And he'd done Radio Freak America before
Binary Revolution Radio. I dragged him over to do one. He will talk and talk. He's got so many
stories. He's another guy that's been around for quite a while. I won't date him or age him or anything
like that. But he was also a big supporter of RFA and Binary Revolution Radio. So he was always a cool
guy and spoke very highly of us. Even though he didn't have the same feelings or appreciation for Freak
Factor. Yeah, we can get to that. I think episode 93 is where we start talking about that. We can
discuss that a little bit more. But you know what? I always had respect. Well, I won't say had. I had
respect for Jason Scott because when I met him the first time, he referred to himself as a librarian.
He didn't get involved in the scene. He just kind of recorded everything and kind of told the story
back to people. I thought that was cool. But when it came to Freak Factor, he was no longer a librarian.
He definitely let people know what he'd think about it. He was on the very first
show, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, what was the Mensa? What was the comment about Mensa?
Oh man, I don't even remember. I think he said it's Mensa for retards. Yeah, Freak Factor is Mensa for
retards. Oh my goodness. I'm not really sure what that even means to this day. I'm trying to decode it.
Like I know what Mensa is and I know what retards are, but they just don't really jive together.
So, I don't know. Maybe he was just on the spot. But in any case, he's not a big fan of Freak Factor,
which is fine. Yeah, we're going to come back to that later. He, like many people, didn't get Freak Factor.
So, we'll come back to that in a little bit. Let's see. So, let's see. Where were we moved? What were you? 59. So, 60. How about 60?
Oh, 60 was an episode about Asterisk, which later on through season three became a huge running joke,
because we talked about Asterisk so freaking often and did so many episodes about it that
it became a joke. But this was the first episode dedicated to Asterisk before. It might have been
mentioned, but Strom and Black Ratchet went into a whole lot more detail and a whole lot more examples
once they took over the show. And Default Radio, I'm sure, always referred to it. I don't know if they
ever really did any... You would know this. Did they ever cover like technical aspects of going to
Asterisk in detail and teaching, or were they just talked about how cool it was?
On Default Radio? No, we talked about different things that Asterisk could be used for.
Actually, I think I lost my New Phone account. The guy who runs New Phone claims that I dropped some
kind of information on Default Radio. Well, he referred to it as, quote unquote, your little radio show.
On how to defrog New Phone. And I still, to this day, I'm not really sure what that was. But that's
why the original Bell's mind number is no longer 810-223-0003. That was a New Phone number. That's gone.
So I'm guessing at some point on Default Radio, we did talk about Asterisk, probably in some detail.
Otherwise, I wouldn't have lost my account. So to answer your question, almost definitely,
but not 100% sure. Yeah. All right. You never know what people might have interpreted either. So
who knows? Yeah, that's true. But this was the first time. I asked for clarification,
and I never received it. So that was the end of the road from it with New Phone. Actually,
a secret between me and you in the audience, and probably the guy who runs New Phone now,
if you're listening, I still actually do have a New Phone account, just it doesn't melt away.
Oh, let's see how long that lasts. I don't use it anymore. I just, I know that it still
registers, and every once in a while, I can place a call with it. So, whatever.
Well, anyway, episode 60, which was late 2004, let's see, was it August, end of August 2004,
was the first time we ever really did a detailed episode on that topic. So, let's see. And then we
kind of went on a little string, let's see, like 62, 63, what else here, 67. We started getting on some
real specific topics from the headlines and news and stuff like that. Not the news topics so much as
the, we're inspired by what they were about and went into the detail and technical aspects of more,
more of a security angle to them, and not really hacking so much, but security topics,
but from a hacker perspective. And see, that's, you know, I also have this long-running beef against
security, not against, but security professionals, so many of them that
don't understand that hacking and security are two completely different things. I mean, they're
somewhat related, but no one, you know, I'm a hacker. I am not a security professional. Never have
been, never claimed to be, don't want to be. I think you guys suck. I think it's a boring job
doing scans and stuff like that. There's a few fun jobs doing researching and stuff like that,
stuff like Acidus and, and Decius and, and stuff like that. They, you know, get paid to do research
and stuff like that and present, and that's awesome. That I might be mildly interested in,
but, um, these security professionals who, I don't know, their claim to fame is writing a paper,
one paper, one time or something and, and thinking that they're an uber hacker because of it. I mean,
no, you studied and analyzed something that other real hackers found and you just went and did
detailed research on it and typed it up. That doesn't really impress me. You know, find new stuff
and stuff that's actually useful. I mean, I don't know how you feel about this, but I just am so
unimpressed by someone who goes in and finds that if you enter in this exact precise string into this
one version of this one program that's not even available anymore, it can create a buffer overflow
that causes, you know, who the fuck cares? That is so big deal. Yeah, no, I, I can hear what you're
saying. And if somebody really is just, just doing that, maybe it's not so impressive. I think the method
of getting to that level is a lot more impressive than, than the actual, you know, okay, if you send
the string, you know, hello to or something to an old version of send mail, you just get a root prompt
or something or whatever. Um, but I don't know. I have to say that even if you've got security
professionals, um, out there writing papers that are just kind of digested versions of maybe,
you know, some shell code that's out there and maybe like a very short article by somebody,
it is kind of nice to have somebody who's got the writing ability who can take all that,
like I said, digest it and then turn it into something that's a little more palatable than just some
hacked together. Like OMG. Oh no, this is my leap. Oh day hack. You know, right. It's,
you know, readable and sensible. I do have some respect for that, but I wouldn't,
but that makes them a writer wrote one paper and just be, you know, just say, Oh my God,
it's so amazing. You wrote that, that one paper, you know, the, the novelty of everything fades after
a while. So if you don't keep doing things, you might've been impressive at one time, but if you're
not keeping on top of it, it's not really so exciting. Right. A landmark paper. But you know what,
if somebody can represent that and put it in a better way that explains it, whatever,
that person is called a writer, not a security professional necessarily. They may do it better
than someone else with their, Oh my gosh, check out my zero day baby Q hacks. Yeah. I know what you're
saying there. And I agree with that, but you know, that was just a bad writer. I mean, like, I, I don't
know, you know, here's a, this is maybe, I don't know if this will make a sense or a good example,
but I think of a concept like SQL injection is something I love. Hackers found that and figured
that out and realized what it does and how it works. You know, that's something that a hacker
discovered, you know, hackers as a community discovered that. Then for, okay. So the concept,
that's groundbreaking. That's a landmark thing. That is something that's impressive. And, you know,
shell code that, you know, the original concept, that's right. But later on specific applications
of SQL injection, they're interesting, but they're not horribly impressive anymore. Like, okay, the
concept of SQL injection, brilliant. The fact that, you know, one specific SQL injection that works on
Microsoft SQL server 2000, if you send this syntax, because tier and Zach T SQL or Transact SQL has a
little thing in it that'll let you do something a little bit different. You know what? That's just
one application of it. It certainly is still kind of interesting and it's neat to know, but that
doesn't make you elite hacker. That makes you somebody who piggybacked on the original findings
and show one application of it. Right. And I, like I said, I wouldn't say that they're the most
amazing person in the world for that, but I mean, that's, that's how things move on. Like some guy
inadvertently might discover some other huge thing. Like you might be working on this little
Transact SQL bug and then come up with a whole new concept. So I don't know that I would kind
of downplay it completely and then tell people like, Hey, listen, this, this research is, you know,
completely worthless. I think it's all worthwhile. I just wouldn't put these people on a pedestal.
Right. You know, if they just wrote, you know, a paper. Well, and that's the problem. I'm not,
I don't think other people are putting them on pedestals. I think unfortunately I have a bad
habit of putting themselves on a pedestal. That's the ones that get me. It's fine if you're proud of
your work, but as soon as you're, you know, telling people, Oh, I'm the greatest security
professional ever. You know, it's gone too far or referring to your own cool things, you know,
but we don't all need to brag about it all the time. The work will brag for itself. People will
be impressed by the work itself. Right. You don't need to do it for, you know, to promote yourself.
Yeah. You pat yourself on the back too much. You're going to end up breaking a spine.
Hopefully. But yeah, that just happens a lot. And well, and the other thing that goes along with that
is, you know, again, I agree with what you said, a people putting themselves on a, on a pedestal
too high and have it stroking your own ego is one thing that I hate about it. The other bad
tendency, and I'm not, obviously I'm not saying everybody. I have a lot of friends in security
professional industry, but another unfortunately all too common thing is they love to put other
people down, you know, and take other people's stuff that's as good at, if not better than stuff
that they've written or created and downplay it and try to, and this is the old hacker elitism
would do the same thing. The old school hackers, you know, try to gain fame by crushing and putting
someone else down. That doesn't gain you fame. That makes you look like a chump.
You know, go out there and do something better. Don't degrade and put down something that I've
done. Put up or shut up. Do something more yourself. And I think that's sadly all too common
in the security industry as well. Yeah, I don't know why people feel the
need to do that kind of stuff. It just seems kind of silly to me, but whatever. You know,
if you don't like something somebody did, guess what? It's the internet. You don't need to look at it.
Yeah, go. Get the foe. Yeah, exactly. That was pretty much my, it still is to a certain extent,
one of my philosophies on life. To foo or get the foe. My philosophy is on life.
And I understand, like, there's already enough fighting in this, in this scene already, which is
pointless. Why do we need any more? You know, just, you can ignore each other. There's plenty
of room out there. Just do whatever you want to do. But you don't need to go and, like you said,
put people down and, you know, go out of your way to be an asshole. Just ignore it. Or just do something
better and show them off. Go start your own form. Maybe that person will take you up on it
and then do something better to show you up. Yep. Go start your own form. Get away from mine.
Anyway, so yeah, we went through some series of security topics. Phishing was a topic that I
always avoided. I thought that was kind of vague and had been done to death, but I thought we added
some new spins to that on one of those episodes. El Diablo and I talked about the certified ethical
hacker that I mentioned I got earlier in the season. So we went through some interesting
security topics. Episode 69, you gotta love episode 69. We continued the tradition that
started on RFA with episode 69, which of course was the return of Buck Dangler.
Buck Dangler co-hosted this episode along with Mr. Pink, partners in crime there. These were
a couple guys that I had met before back on RFA. They hosted the show and they seemed pretty cool,
so I let them handle episode 69. I just took that week off and let them go wild with it.
May have sounded familiar, but I assure you they were absolutely two totally different people than
you think they were. Actually, the back story here is back on Radio Freak America episode 69,
totally just because we thought it was funny. Bland I think came up with the idea
that we should use porn names because it was episode 69.
And we went and found on the interweb there's all these random name generators and we found a porn
name generator. And we went through there generating some names and we picked names that we were going
to use on the show the whole time. And you know, they were all funny. We were already laughing.
We were already cutting up and everything anyway. So Duel and I introduced ourselves first. I mean,
the first two hosts that were not Duel and I that were, had, oh fuck it. Duel and I introduced
ourselves first with our porn names. But then when Bland came along and introduced himself,
he kind of surprised us because the names that we had generated earlier and were prepared for,
he must have kept randomly generating numbers because he dropped another name on us
that we weren't prepared for. And Duel and I just cracked up laughing. It almost ruined the whole show
when we announced ourselves and then Bland and Quisner said his name was Buster Cheek Spreader.
And I just, I lost it. I just absolutely was laughing so hard. I had to pull the phone away.
I think, I don't, I don't think I heard like five minutes of the show because I kept laughing so hard.
I had to pull the phone away. But that was funny and that was kind of a nice little tradition that we
expanded over to Binary Revolution Radio. And, um, yeah, I, uh, if that didn't set the stage stage
for the filth and depravity that became Binary Revolution Radio, I don't know what did.
Another chase away all of the chicks female listeners, right?
Oh yeah, that'll definitely do it.
Oh, let's see. How about episode 71? That was, uh, yeah, that was a pretty much a week off for me.
Um, I wanted to get a show out and, uh, audio from my whole presentation was an hour long,
50 minutes long, 55 minutes. So, throw a wrapper around that bad boy and send it off and call it a
show to kind of took the week off and let it air that and put the intro and outro and that was about
it. The rest was just the actual, uh, text or audio from Hope number five. So, that was kind of a,
I don't know, that was kind of a lackluster show, I guess. Well, if you didn't hear it and, you know,
obviously, if you didn't make it to New York to Hope, you hadn't heard it before. So, it was new
material. So, I don't know. Uh, let's see. Episode 73 was the debut, debut, debut, debut of Black Ratchet.
And, uh, obviously, you'll hear a whole lot more from him in coming seasons since he took over episode
three. But, um, the other thing about this episode that's kind of noticeable was that this coincided
with the release of my Animal Planet episode, my appearance on Animal Planet, which was
insanely fun and certainly something new to me that I'd never seen before. Um,
you saw this, you saw this clip before, right? You know, I saw some of it, but I didn't,
it was like a, I think it was like a YouTube clip or something. It was really low quality.
Um, but you got the gist out. Yeah, you got the gist out. It was just the last segment was, um,
comparing sharks to hackers and picking up Wi-Fi signals. It was definitely nothing deeply hacking
related, but, um, it was appropriate. It fit the show. It was kind of interesting. I actually learned
something about sharks by watching it. So that's always a plus, but, um, kind of a funny backstory
here that I don't think I've ever told before is you may remember that they filmed us basically
this whole thing. It just started with, with El Diablo, who'd be on the show, been on the show
with me before. Um, he was contacted actually to do this episode and he asked me to come along
and do it with him, which was awesome. And we basically went through Miami up in North Miami
and basically went war driving. That's the super short version. But what a lot of people don't
know is we went war driving. And if you see it on the video, we're driving around this great big H2
solid black jet black Hummer. Well, the funny thing is that thing was rented
and they threw up those magnetic signs on the side of it with the company's logo on it. So they could
look cool, you know, look all intimidating with this big, um, H2 driving around, you know,
like they were badass and whatnot, um, with the logo on the side. And it was funny because
here we are trying to look cool. We got the sunglasses, the whole hacker thing. They wanted
to play up the whole hacker aspect, which is why they wanted me in there to kind of balance out the,
uh, the security professionals and stuff from the company. So the funny part of the story is
as it started to get darker and the day went into night, they started kind of panicking. The taping
was going longer than they expected. And they were all freaking out because they had to get the
Hummer back to the rental agencies. They didn't want to get charged for another day of rental.
That's how hard up they were. They're trying to look all badass with money, but here they are
worried about one more day's car rental on there. So what does that tell you? I know that's funny.
And you know what? You know how much every TV show has probably got weird stories like that.
What you see on TV is so not real. Oh, that was fun. I enjoyed that a lot.
Oh, let's see. Episode 78 here. We're crawling towards the end of season two. Uh, Alonka debuted
on the show. One of the absolute nicest people that I've ever met. I don't think you've ever met
Alonka in real life. Have you in person? No, I don't think so. You, for some reason,
you always seem to, the cons that you're at or that you miss, she's at and vice versa. So I don't
think you've ever, I've ever gotten to introduce you to her, but she's just one of the nicest people
in the scene and the hacking world. And I say that every time she's on the show or every time her name
comes up, but you know what? There's just so few people in the scene that are genuinely nice,
good people like that, that succeed at life. So many people fail at life, you know, but she's one
of those people that's genuinely good people and you have to show some love and show some respect
and appreciation and treat people well that are like that because, man, we need more people like
that in the world that actually have respect and friendships with people. And she and I both travel
for work part of our jobs and going to conferences and stuff like that as well. We always get together
and meet up at different places here and there. I actually travel without dropping docs to her
hometown or where she lives on occasion and we try to get together there. So, yeah, she's,
she's a great person. I always love having her on the show. And then right after that,
that, that was episode 78. And right after that, we did episode 79, which was, you know,
we followed up the episode with Alonka, which was on cryptography with another cryptography episode
back with Desias again. And these two back-to-back shows may have been the best shows that we ever
did, honestly. Back-to-back shows on, on encryption and cryptography and stuff, because Alonka on the
the first episode did this great overview of cryptography and kind of brought it to the masses,
explained the general concepts, let everybody realize that they could understand it. It's not,
the word cryptography, I don't know, for some people it's intimidating because it sounds
like high math and detailed stuff and confusing complicated things and algorithms, and it's
intimidating. And Alonka is really good at kind of bringing it down to earth and let everybody know
that their cryptography has so many different forms and so many aspects to it and explain what
it is in general. And then on the next episode, I get Desias on to come in and show some applied
cryptography in detail. And I think the first episode was so good at setting that up. And then the second
episode was just perfect to come in and pick up where it left off and go into detail about how it relates
to computers, talk about algorithms, the math behind it, what they're all about, when you can apply it,
how it gets applied on the electronics level, on the computer, on the level of the code. And it's just,
I learned a tremendous amount doing these couple of episodes. So those two back-to-back, I thought,
were just really probably the best back-to-back episodes we've ever done. And Desias was actually
involved in pretty much all of my favorite episodes. Every time he was on the show, I thought he was
fantastic.
Um, let's see.
What else here? How about, um...
Episode 81 was kind of an annoying show for me, actually.
81 was a special show, and I don't know if you even ever heard this one, to be honest.
81 was a special show that we recorded for Nauticon. And Jason Scott was involved in putting on streaming audio
throughout the entire convention for the weekend, and he'd ask us, and a couple other shows,
if we would record a special show or a special episode for them, exclusively, or to be used at Nauticon.
So we recorded the show, I went out of my way to put in as much work as I always do recording shows,
to put together a good show for Nauticon. And then I was really, really disappointed to find out that
they ended up playing it at like 4am. No one was around to listen to it. They just queued it up and
let it run overnight. I don't know if any single solitary person listened to that episode. You know,
I was told that it was going to be airing at like 10 or 11 at night, which is when the talks are finished,
people would be out and about in the con, wandering around, listening to the, possibly listening to the show.
And, um, it just didn't happen that way. So I really felt kind of bad about that. And
uh, decided to go ahead and air it as an episode on the stream for everybody else. So 81 has some
references in it saying, Hey, everyone at Nauticon and Nauticon attendees or something like that.
And that's the reasons because it recorded specifically for that. So I ended up streaming
that for everyone else because it did have some decent content on it was an interesting show.
So, but, um, you know, the whole experience, the amount of work it takes to do it, I just felt,
I don't know, I didn't like the way it all played out. And I kind of made that decision. I'm not
doing any more special episodes like that anymore. It's too much time and it's too much work to put
it in and then have nobody listen to it. So yeah, that one didn't go as well as I had hoped. Didn't
go the way that I hoped. Right. Now the, the only thing that really made it special was the fact that,
that it mentioned Nauticon. Did they, did they give you some type of topic that they thought you should
discuss? No, they didn't give us any topic. They didn't give us any restrictions or whatever.
They just wanted us to do something especially for them. So we geared it, um, you know, we kept
referring to everyone listening at Nauticon. Like, you know, we, we were told that it would be playing
over the speakers so that it, you know, in the hallways and in the vendor area and stuff like that.
So, you know, a lot of the stuff was us speaking down saying, Hey, you know, Nauticon,
you're walking around. Hey, what's going on over in this room? Make sure you go check out that. There might have
been some references to like, they didn't give us a schedule to announce, okay, at four o'clock,
this is going to happen in the breakout room number two or like that. But there was some stuff like,
Hey, make sure you go check out the vendor area and make sure if, uh, Ilanka's talking,
you go make sure you take her talk in. There was some stuff like that in there.
So, yeah, so that probably wasn't the best one on the stream, but I wanted someone to hear it. I
thought it was at least worth putting out there. And I don't know, maybe it was a clunker on the
actual stream because people weren't at Nauticon. So I don't know.
And it was shortly after that episode 86 that the Google rants really started to begin for me.
I mentioned earlier with Gmail coming on is when it started planting the seeds in my head and
really had me looking into it. Um, 86 was an episode while I was doing my whole research on
Google AdWords that, um, ended up presenting at Defcon and writing articles about, et cetera, et cetera.
And, um, probably one of the most well-known topics I presented and maybe that's why still to this
day people brand me as a big anti-Google guy, Google hater. Um, I don't hate Google. I just
think you should use it. You should be very careful when you use it and understand what
you're getting yourself into. I say that about Microsoft. I say that about Yahoo. I say that about
every big corporation. Be careful how much information you give them. The only reason that maybe I give a
lot more emphasis to Google is because, well, they're the biggest. So it's not that I have
a specific hard on for Google. I just say Google has a lot of data on a lot of people.
Yep. And they've posted record profits this quarter too. I think they had a billion dollar
profit just this quarter and up from maybe it was a hundred million dollar profit or something
like that, but it was like up 40% or something ridiculous. It was a huge leap for them. So they're
definitely, you know, shaking their money maker, making tons of cash.
Yep. Yep. And of course, following their motto of do no evil the entire time, right? Do you believe that?
Actually, I read an article recently about the do no evil motto, and it really doesn't mean that
they will never do evil. That's brilliant. Okay. No, I don't know. I'll explain. I'll explain.
Please do. You know, evil could be defined differently by a whole, everybody could say,
oh, this is evil, that's evil, but they may all have different opinions on what exactly is evil.
Right. Google says do no evil as I understand it from this article that I read. They're basically
talking about the Google culture where evil is kind of like, I mean, I guess it's like a safe word,
maybe like, you know, people get involved in these sexual things and they need to have a safe word.
So if somebody's discussing something at Google, somebody else can just kind of derail the whole
thing and say, uh, we shouldn't do that because it's evil. And kind of like the project stops until
they convince the person that what they're doing is not evil. So do no evil just means if you tell
us that we're doing something evil and you work here, of course, um, we're going to seriously look
into it and make sure that we're actually not doing something evil. And then we're going to talk
you out of it. That's, that's the basis of it. All of, you know, whatever you think is evil
doesn't matter to Google. It's what they think is evil. Well, and you, but you just said,
then they'll basically talk you out of it or try to convince you otherwise.
Well, not necessarily talk you out of it. It could be that they change what they're doing,
uh, in such a way that you no longer think it's evil. But they may say, hey, listen,
it may sound that way, but let me explain why it's not. That was, that was how the interviewer,
um, or how the article has presented it. And that's easy, that's easy to say.
I know I'm not going to change your mind on Google. Well, I'm just, you got to admit that's,
that's easy to say now after the fact, oh, what we really mean by that is this. Let me clarify that.
That's easy to say afterwards. Well, no, I mean, it's just because it's their,
their company motto and you interpret it that way, you know, from the very start,
that's what it meant to them. Um, you know, everybody else heard, oh yeah, that's their motto.
Um, but they all kind of said, well, I know what that means. Well, no, really,
they have their own way of defining what you know evil is. And that's how it's defined,
whether you like it or not. Some things are universally evil.
And I guess, you know, you're right. Evil is a subjective word. There's no doubt about that.
And it's absolutely subjective from one person to another. But,
you know, and I've always said all along, my opinion, Google has done some evil things.
I do honestly believe that any more evil things than any other company has done. No,
like I said, Microsoft does a lot of the same things, tracking stuff, Yahoo,
all these other ones, they do the same stuff too, but they don't have that slogan.
So, you know, again, same, you're right. What I define as evil and what you define or other
people define as evil, you know, everybody has to make them on a case by case basis.
I just want to bring it to everybody's attention that, you know what,
just like they probably like, let's use our example. If they,
an employee brings up and says, Hey, wait a minute, this might be evil. Should we really do this?
They talk about it and they figure out and try to convince each other or whatever they do.
No, it's not really evil. And here's why. Well, I'm just playing the, like you said earlier,
the devil's advocate. I'm playing the other side and saying, well, wait a minute, maybe it is evil.
And here's why. If you at least, the thing is, if you at least think about it and then decide,
no, Stank, you're wrong. They're not evil at all. You're just a nut job. Hey, I'm okay with that.
I just want you to think about it. You know, and that's why I say everybody thinks I'm this big
anti-Google, hate Google. No one should ever use Google. No, that's not true. I use Google all the time.
I also use Yahoo. I also use your favorite search engine, Ask Jeeves.
Hey, I got to tell you that, you know, your favorite person in the world,
I won't joke about that anymore, but, you know, Kevin Rose and Big, they got some type of deal with Ask.
They're really pushing Ask hard. And, you know, I tried it out the other day. It's okay.
Ask has gotten better, but yeah. Yeah, it's okay.
Yeah, it's gotten better as far as features and stuff like that, but the search results still aren't good,
I don't think. But yeah, if we had time to do an episode on search engine results again,
I always like those because that's something else I find interesting.
Let's see. 90, 91, those were good episodes. Specific hacking topics, web cracking, packet injection,
topics, again, that were known at the time, but people may not have known the details about them,
how and why they work, you know. So, we're always careful not to cover known topics
or gloss over topics, you know, because people already heard that. That becomes boring radio.
It's like, yeah, I already know about that stank. Tell me something I don't know.
So, when I put the shows together, I always try to think from that aspect.
I don't want to lose people. I want people to find it interesting. So,
most people probably know this, but I bet you they don't know this and try to go that angle with it.
So, you know, those are topics that people might have known about, but we try to get in a little
bit more detail and make people more knowledgeable and come out with something they may not have
thought about before, you know. And that's a theme throughout BinRev. That's one thing we've always
tried to do is, you know, the whole give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish,
he eats forever. That's kind of the whole philosophy. You always try to, and we probably even go too far.
And I know a lot of people in the forums get frustrated sometimes with new users asking
questions or repeating stuff. You know, it's like, I do believe in teaching people to fish.
I even go so far as to catch the first few fish for them. Most people do not agree with that in
the hacking community. And that's one of the things that kind of people may get frustrated at the
forums. I'm all for spoon feeding people once or twice. Teach them how to hold the spoon. Teach
them how to fish. Teach them how to lower the pole into the water. Teach them how to take the fish off
the hook. Sometimes you have to give them that simplistic directions. At some point you have to
let go. And if it doesn't take, there's nothing you can do about it. But just blindly throwing a
fishing pole at somebody and some bait and going, here's the link to Google search. Here's the link
to the software. Figure it out. I like to go a little bit further with that in general. And that's
something we always try to do on the show. And maybe I'm too easy or light handed with noobs, but
the nubs, as you would call them. I don't know. What do you think? Am I too easy on it?
You know, to give these people some type of assistance at first, you know, it's nice to say,
okay, you know, Google it, you fuck or whatever. But sometimes, you know, you're going to turn
people off. There's no reason to turn somebody off. Unless it's a super pain in the ass for you to
kind of explain what they need. And it's a ton of work. You know, why not? Put a couple of minutes and
help them out. And if they keep doing it, then you got to tell them, listen,
you guys got to figure it out on their own eventually. But at first, I think it's okay
to help people out. That's how people get started. That's how you get more people involved.
And that's how they figure out new stuff. And we want this community to grow. I hear myself
echoing there a little bit. But we want this community to grow. And we want people to learn
and to be able to grow, you know, come back to the community later as a productive member.
And if they were helped when they first entered, they're going to be more likely to help,
you know, that whole pay it forward concept, I guess, if you want to think of it like that.
So I know that's a lot of hard and a lot of people kind of disagree with that. They think that
all hackers should earn everything the hard way. I'm sorry, that's not efficient.
You know, that's my thing. That's just not efficient. I'm sorry. That's just kind of foolish.
That's kind of like saying, listen, let me tell you what I'm going to do, kid. You see this behind
me? This is a library. It has all the answers you need. Just go in there and find the book you want.
Well, holy shit. That's kind of big, isn't it? That's kind of ginormous. And that's what it feels
like. And it's a pet peeve of mine to see people say, Google it, you know? Oh, why don't you go try
searching for it, dumbass? Guess what? You know, that's like pointing to the library or pointing
to the bookstore. Oh, yeah, go in there. The answer's in there. That's a shit lot of good.
Thanks a lot. Fuck face. Yeah, right. And the problem is a lot of times where somebody can say,
hey, listen, you know, I'm interested in mag stroke cards or something like that. Well,
yeah, you can Google for mag stroke cards. Maybe you can't find the information you want because
you don't know the terminology yet. And without knowing the terminology, it's hard to Google for stuff.
When somebody says, hey, listen, you need to look up mag stripe and track one, track two,
track three, reader and writer. And then from there, you'll find everything you need. You know,
that's sometimes all you have to do. Just let people know what they're really looking for. Because
sometimes they have a vague idea that it's not enough to get them where they need to go. Right. Or
pointing to a specific site that has a lot of that stuff on there, like for that example,
send them to Acidus' site and Stripes do. And let them, now that they've got a starting point,
let them work their way backwards. Because they will read on that site and they'll see
terms that they don't understand. But now they know which terms to Google for. Wait a minute,
track one. What does that mean, track one? Let me go back and search for that. And work backwards
to find out that information. Because, all right, let's take, let's take another example. Let's take
something like, okay, how about somebody wants to learn about packet injection.
Well, packets is a pretty vague term. Exactly what kind of packet injection are you looking for? What
exactly are you trying to do? They don't know or understand that yet. And when you phrase it and
point out to them, well, wait a minute, are you talking about something like air snore, where you can
inject packets? Or are you talking about sniffing, doing a man in the middle? I mean, what exactly
are you asking for? Because there's a lot of terms, you know, point them to maybe Wikipedia or something
to give them the basic overview, and let them come back with a more precise question. You know,
some stuff is so vague, they don't know what to Google for. If you Google for packet injection,
who knows what kind of hits you're going to get, or whether that's going to be anything useful to you.
Why not ask somebody to help you narrow that down?
Asking questions is never a bad thing. Okay, let me take that back. Almost never a bad thing. If
you ask the same question over and over again, and you've gotten the answer, but you just ignore
it or don't want to do the work, then yeah, you need just a foo. But that's not the case that I see
most of the time. Most people are genuine when they ask their questions. Now, some questions we
won't answer because of the content or the topic of the question. We're not going to teach you how
to hack the White House or how to send out spam or, you know, stuff like that. Right. But if you
ask about that, we'll let you know that that's not what we're going to do. Right. Right.
But sorry, just to touch upon web cracking and packet injection, because I'm sure that since this show
aired, the web cracking scene has changed quite a bit. There's a new attack or newish attack against
web. You used to need like five million packets in order to get the key. Now you need like 40,000.
So web is super weak now. Oh yeah. We need to keep people up to date on it. I don't know if we've
touched upon it in any recent episodes, but web cracking can now be done with pretty simple
hardware and like, I saw a video of it on YouTube, 59 seconds. Oh yeah. Yeah. We've talked about it
on the show before on recent episodes, fairly recent. Oh, let's see. You know what? Actually,
this might take us to another big topic as we're almost three hours in and we're not even through two
seasons of the show. Um, episode 93. Why don't you take a look and see what the topic of that one
episode is? Ah, it's, uh, it's everybody's favorite show. Well, not really a show. It was never meant
to be a show. That's the thing. That's the funny part of it. Nobody ever got the fact that Freak
Factor is not supposed to be anything really. It was a project for us. Yeah, exactly. You know,
I got, I got interested in, uh, an asterisk a long time ago. Um, and then I decided at some point,
you know, you and I got talking and we figured, Hey, why don't we set up a show where we can call
in, not a show stream and we can just bullshit or we can make prank calls or whatever. Well,
then people could just listen to it and, and have a good time, you know, basically take a conference
call that everybody was on and just stream it. Well, and that was my thing is like so many people
didn't know what conferencing was and what it was all about. People heard about it. Oh,
remember back in the day and this bridge and that bridge and phone trips and yada yada. And I,
I just said, you know what, even though they're stupid and they're bizarre, sometimes there's nobody
on the conference. We knew you and I always talked about that. What if there's nobody on? And we both
said, well, fuck it. There's nobody on. Who cares? We're streaming anyway. It was never intended to
be a show with content. If there was no content, well, sorry, you're out of luck. It doesn't
matter. We're going to just stream a live conference. There's a lot of people out there
just want to hear what goes on, but they're afraid to call in. A lot of dock dropage happened
on other bridges, SoCal. And well, I'm not going to go into accusations because I don't really know,
and I'm not going to drop names or anything, but there was always allegations that somebody was
recording this and somebody was looking up numbers at or logging stuff and looking up
everything and dropping docs. And, you know, a lot of people were nervous about calling into
some conferences or some bridges because of that. So we thought, you know, I, I just said,
why don't we just stream it? We've got DDP hack radio. We can connect to it with a live stream.
Why not just stream it and let people listen to it to see what goes on? Because it's not as glamorous
or as, or as it, it's, it's just random, you know, and let people have a taste of it,
see what they're in for. And I, my thought again was, and my goal for just about all projects is
launching it to try to get people interested in it again. Maybe if people heard that conferences
are just random and bizarre and fun and funny and laughing and weirdness and the occasional
flash of brilliance mixed in, then maybe people would listen and actually decide that yes,
we are going to join on the conferences. Now that I know what it's about, now that I've heard it.
Yeah, I think it worked, uh, somewhat for a little while. I saw the activity pick up in the conferences.
Um, but I don't know, uh, Free Factor just kind of took on a life of its own after that first show.
I don't know. Uh, I mean, you got the email about it. Um, but I don't know how many people requested
that, that we keep this thing going, but, uh, it was a lot of people and I don't remember the exact
numbers, but I, uh, I know that at some point we had like the most listeners that binary or not binary
evolution, but, uh, DDP hack radio ever had to the point where we needed to increase.
Yeah. Yeah. And I know exactly it was 50. We had set a maximum cap of 50. We were not on an
unmetered server at that time. So we did have a cap on the listeners, uh, of 50, um, concurrent
listeners and we absolutely broke that. I'm sorry. Oh no, I said, I said callers before. I said we had
a cap on the callers, but no, we had a cap on the listeners to the radio. Right. The stream. There
could only be 50 concurrent streams at a time. There may have been another cap on the callers. I don't
know on that end, but, um, we increased that because we absolutely broke down the server.
People were unable to dial in, uh, or were unable to, excuse me, to connect to the stream. They
were able to dial in fine, but no more people could listen to the stream and that's where it,
all right. So this is where it kind of got interesting. What started off as just a project
for you and I to let's see if we can do this with asterisk and let's see if we can do this with
our streaming thing and get them to connect together and handshake and let's see if it works,
see if it will even do it. So it started off just as a project or an exercise for us
for the fun of it. We never intended to have a website. We never intended to record the show
to make it available for download. We never had hosts for the show. We never had content,
no show notes. There was no show. So none of those things were appropriate. It wasn't a show.
But when we aired it, you know, we gave it a name. If that's the closest thing we got to show us,
we called it freak factor because we thought that was just funny. So because it was a playoff
a fear factor. Yeah, exactly. Fear factor is just like some, not free for all, but it's just one of
those silly reality shows where, you know, people are, people do not horrible things, but people,
people end up doing things that they don't really want to do. And I feel like sometimes that happens
on conferences, you know, people just, you know, they, they end up prank calling people and getting
pranked back and people are toning it out and all kinds of stuff. So I don't know, I figured the name
kind of, kind of fit for what was a reality, a real reality show. I mean, there's real people
on this, you know, doing whatever they want. And once we got it working, that's what we realized.
We realized we created the first internet reality radio show, you know, a show that was actually
real people on a conference doing whatever they do. So we never thought that anybody would care to
listen to it or download it or have notes or any of that kind of stuff. So all that stuff was
afterthought. So that was the weird thing is that people started talking about how Freak Factor was
the worst show ever and it sucked and it was terrible. Well, it's not supposed to be a show,
guys. It's not, it was never intended to be that. It was intended to be an experience. You know,
it was something that was ethereal. It was just absolutely temporary, be in the moment. And when
it was over with, hey, we'll do it again next week. We set up the streaming. I don't remember
what day and time it was, but we set up once a week. It was going to stream for two, three,
four hours. I forget what we ever decided on. Who wants to listen to a four hour show? Oh,
wait a minute. How far are we into this one? Three hours. Yeah, three and a half hours,
maybe. I don't know. It's a long time. But seriously, nobody wants to listen to that show
every week that long. We never thought about it like that. So when we finally did, we said,
you know what, maybe we should run with this whole reality radio thing. And you and I had some other
great ideas that we never implemented. Like we said, if we're doing a reality show, doesn't that mean
we have to do the obligatory vote people off every so often? And we had some, we never got them to work.
And I don't know if we ever will, but remember the idea of having the conference interrupted and
everybody vote somebody off 30 minutes until the show was over and only one person was left
or two people. We, uh, we never ran it on the air. Actually, no, that's not true. We did have voting
on one show. Uh, I forget which show it was. Um, and the website deliver and I will be back up soon
with the, if it's not already by the time you hear this, um, with the, uh, with the old shows on it,
I did have the code do that. It's just that people didn't really get how they were supposed to vote.
You know, I don't know if the interface was broken or something like that, but whoever got voted off,
and I think it was only one person ever voted off. Um, but you know, they only had like one vote
and the script just went into the conference and just kicked them and that's it. So we, we did kind of,
we did kind of attempt, uh, to do that. And the code was all there. It just never really took off. It had,
it required too much hand-holding. We didn't have everything automated. Um, some things are
automated, some things are not. Uh, and that was really the, the downfall of it eventually. Like,
it was just too much work to get on every week and, and kind of babysit this show.
Well, and that goes back again to we never planned for any of this to be necessary.
Yeah, we kind of figured it'd be off the cuff and we'd say, okay, let's do it now. And then we'd do it.
And then once we were done, we'd just shut it off. But people really didn't think of it that way.
People thought, okay, it's on at this time. It's going to be on this time every week.
And it's going to be my chance to get on the stream and, and make a lot of noise and make
phone calls, do whatever, which I think is really cool. And I really want people to do that. Um,
I don't know. I get a big kick out of the show. I think it's a show. I keep calling it show,
but yeah, I mean, it did become a show. I really want to bring it back. And, um, this past week,
I spent a lot of time in setting the system up. And now we have, believe it or not,
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's not, let's not get people's
hopes up too much here. Let's take, let's take it easy. Let's just, let's just, let's just leave
it at, we're still working on getting creep factor. It has not completely disappeared.
And let's just kind of leave it at that for now. Let's just, even though you and I know what's
going on and stuff, let's wait till we go. But I mean, you kind of let's, you said something just
a second ago I want to follow up on. It is okay to call it a show because now it is a show. If we
finally realized that people did want that. So I like, for example, here's another thing that we
didn't expect to have to account for or deal with. Like I said, in the beginning, we always said,
we stream the conference. If nobody's on it and it's dead air, so what? We stream dead air for two
hours or whatever. That's, we never cared. We knew that was part of it. That's part of the reality.
That's the way it was on the opposite end of the coin. If somebody came in and troned the whole thing
out, you know, and just played a tone and ruined it for everybody. That's also part of the reality
that happens on conferences all the time. Some asshole comes in and thinks that that's funny to just tone
everybody out. And hey, it may actually be sometimes, you know, just to be an ass,
the randomness on the show. So we also, again, that falls under the, so what? That's the way it
goes. It's not like we're recording this. It's not like it's a real show. But at some point,
we had to accept the fact that, yes, people do want this recorded. They do want to hear this later
on. We do need to work something out. And all of a sudden, something that was not a problem,
and we never intended to be a problem, toning was a problem. How do we handle that? So as the show
was evolving, I said on the air, every time I would go on and get the show started, I would always say,
keep in mind, this is an ongoing experiment. This was always done as an experiment, a project that
you and I did as an experiment to see if it could be done for the fun of it. We knew it was going to be
all screwed up. We knew that this thing was fucked up. We were trying to fix it as we went along. But
that's all part of the reality. You did a lot of work and a lot of effort to making people register
and trying to come up with a way so we could see who was toning and who was talking. And that takes
a lot of time. We crossed from something that was a silly little fun project into something that was
a lot of work. And I don't think a lot of people realize that. No, it was a ton of work and there was a
ton of coding involved. But it was a good time. I even remember the first show. The first show,
I was coding up to the very last second. As a matter of fact, the show even lost late.
I ran the scripts. I had attached to the stream for the first time successfully.
Yeah. After I kicked it like 30 times. After I had to start and restart and kick and restart and
reconnect because we could never play. Oh my gosh, that was a mess. That was fun though.
I mean, when it first connected, and I think somebody has an MP3 of this. Somebody was
recording the stream that night. When it first connected, it was just you and I in a conference.
And I heard the thing join the conference. And I just remember saying to you something along
the lines of, oh shit, it actually connected. Let me drop it and start it for real.
Yeah, right. And I restarted it and put on the theme music and started the show and introduced it.
And that's how it all began. That was a crazy night. Yeah. And we didn't even know about
theme music. We were like, should we even bother? I mean, and the only reason I think we did the
theme music is because we wanted people to know because people would be listening to the stream
anyway. And if they suddenly got interrupted with all this random shit, people would be like,
what the hell is going on? So we put theme music just to let people know that something new was
coming, something different and it just happened. Right. But you know, and actually, I think it's
I think it's worth pointing out. I don't know if you know the specifics on this, but I'll throw it
out there. I don't know how many episodes we actually have recorded or how many are missing
because we never intended on recording stuff. Now, I know that Nick 84, he just set the stream
up to record overnight sometimes and it would come in the next day and like chop out the parts.
And we got a couple of recordings that way. But are we still missing some recordings? Do we have
the very first couple episodes? Do we miss any in the middle? Do we, what are we missing? Or do you
even know? You know, I looked back, I was actually moving servers around and doing all kinds of stuff.
An interesting tidbit that not a lot of people know, you might know this, but I'm pretty sure the
people outside of this, outside of our circle don't know it. The Free Factor server was actually stolen
from the colo that it was in. Yeah. So, that machine is, who knows where that machine is? That
machine is, it's probably a boat anchor by now. No, it's in the mail. It's in the mail and it's on
its way to you. Yeah. You know, I could slam that, that colo company, but I'm not going to do that right
now. But in any case, just a funny factoid that, that the server for this thing was actually stolen.
I did get all of the data off, so I do have all of the recordings that we managed to get
at the time. So, I believe there were 15 episodes, which is amazing in itself. And I think out of
that, we're missing maybe two. I think episodes 13 and 14 are lost, and maybe one before that. But I
don't think so. I think it's just, it's just those two. Did we really get like the very first episode
where it really was you and I going, oh my god, it works? Do we really have that?
Yeah, I didn't actually, I didn't have a recording of that. I don't think. You know,
there's some of the, some of the stuff when I was playing around and testing it before we had put it
on live, I did record some of that just because I wanted to, you know, make sure that it sounded,
you know, it sounded okay and all that. So, I don't think that I had a recording of that,
because I think I turned it off at that time. But somebody did send in an mp3. I think it was Nick,
sent in an mp3 of the first, possibly second show. But I think by the third show, I had decided that
I would at least make recordings of it and try to make them available.
Right. Now, I don't know if we have the first couple or not, but yeah. I guess so. You said you
hopefully have that webpage up, and that's freakfactor.net. That's P-H-R-E-A-K-P-H-A-C-T-O-R.net.
Yep. And it's the internet's first reality radio show. As a matter of fact, I think it's still the
only internet reality radio show. I was going to say that same thing. I don't think anybody's
ever attempted it again. And you know what? All we can say to that is stay tuned. I don't want to...
Which is, you know, it kind of, it kind of amazes me that, you know, we did this in 2004,
I guess it was. And we did 15 episodes. I don't know that it was every week. You know,
we maybe missed a week here or there. But we did 15 episodes and it's been two and a half,
maybe three years since then, and still nobody has done the same thing. And it's so much easier
now to do it. There's so much more infrastructure in Asterisk and so many more libraries to make
this a lot easier to do, but yet nobody's done it. I can't figure out why. Is it because it's a bad idea?
Yeah. Well, but, well, see, and that's another funny thing as we kind of get off of this topic
is the funniest thing is after all of this, we've just explained to everybody, we never intended this
to be a show, never intended to record it. It's not about content. There are no hosts. There is no
topic. There is no talking. This is not something that ever was planned to be a show for people.
And people still talk about how it was the worst show ever. It was horrible. The hosts were terrible.
All they ever did was call Walmart intercoms. All they ever did was jabber on and tell jokes and
make prank calls. Guess what? That's the reality of the conference. You have to overcome that hurdle
in your mind. Stop expecting content. Stop expecting someone to hold your hand and walk you through
and go, hi, I'm Stank Dog. Today on Freak Factor, we're going to do this, this, and this. No,
you're going to hear music and then random bullshit. And that's it. If you get that in your head and
accept it for what it is, Freak Factor is the freaking awesomest, most cool. I love Freak Factor. I
still think it's great. I thought every episode was phenomenal, even though everybody else said it was
horrible. It was exactly what we intended it to be, and it was a complete success in my mind.
That was a great experiment, and I absolutely think we succeeded beyond all expectations,
even if some of the listeners might not agree or understand.
I tend to agree.
Well, listen, stay tuned to FreakFactor.net, as I mentioned earlier, or to BinRev.com in the forums, and
we have not abandoned that project, and that's all we'll say about it. And actually, you may hear
news very soon. Now, we always tease about Freak Factor, so I don't want to go any further, but
just keep your eyes open. I'm sure that you will find out when Freak Factor comes back,
if it comes back. Oops. I fucked that up, didn't I? All right. Well, anyway, let's see here. Let's
close up season two here. Episode 96 was a good one, worth mentioning. We had Virgil on the show.
Virgil does a lot of great projects, and every one of them, boy, he breaks news. I mean,
this most recent one was the Wikipedia wiki scanner, I think it's called, where it goes through and it
scans any of the anonymous edits to look up where the IP address comes from, to see which companies
were editing their own entries. That got a lot of publicity and a lot of stuff. I mean, he was
involved with the Blackboard case a few years back, along with Acidus. He does so many cool projects,
and on episode 96, he came on to talk about Google Mining, which is a presentation he made at Interzone
three or four. I don't remember. We were both at, and I thought that was a cool presentation,
a cool topic that was a little bit more than Google Mining, or than Google Hacking, excuse me.
Google Mining uses Google Hacking techniques, but it was really more about data mining,
that is to say, using Google Hacking techniques to pull out files, data files, like PDFs and stuff like
that, Excel spreadsheets, things like that, from a company, using some Google Hacking skills,
some Google Foo to pull this stuff out. Then the more important part of it was not just finding
this stuff, but then analyzing it, and trying to find patterns, and trying to find names and docs
and stuff inside of that. That's the part people never really got, I don't think, but I was excited
about this because this is the kind of project that anybody could do. People are always asking,
I don't know about you, but people are always asking me, oh, I'm bored. I need a project to
work on. I want to work on this. What should I work on? This was great to me because it's infinite,
has infinite possibilities. There are an infinite amount of companies you can decide to Google mine,
go out there and see what kind of stuff you can find out. I tried to use Bill South as an example,
and even got people started saying, hey, look at this. Here's a bunch of, here's the format that
PDF files that they use for tech support, and some of them have passwords. Why don't somebody go out
there and grab a bunch of them, analyze them, and then put together a list of all the passwords
they might find in them, or phone numbers, or things like that. It just never really took off,
and that was another frustration of mine is people always asking, I want a project. I want to work
on this. I want to help with that, but then when you spend a lot of time to organize a project,
put it together. I created a whole forum for this, created some specific things, handheld people
through it, and nobody really participated in it. That was another lesson I learned,
kind of like the one I said earlier. I just learned to stop doing that. I'm not going to assign
projects to people anymore, because I spend too much time on that, and then nobody delivers,
and nobody comes through. So I kind of stopped doing that, because I just have too many other
things to work on. So that was a little bit disappointing. The Google mining forum is still
out there on binrev.com, forums.binrev.com. I'd love to see people do it. It's still there,
because it's still a project that'll last forever, basically. And it doesn't even have
to be Google mining. It could be Yahoo. It could be any number of other places, but Google
is the easiest for people, and they're most familiar with it. And they seem to pull in a lot
of stuff. They search within zip files. I remember that bothered me when I first found out about that.
I didn't realize they would do that. But anyway. Oh, let's see. What else? Wrap this up here. Episode
number 100, the final telephonic craptacular. Like I said, every 25 episodes, did one of these. And
the first couple were easy, because I had recordings already. But by the time I got to the third and then
the fourth one, boy, they were a little bit more forced, and I didn't like doing them as much. And again,
they took a lot of time. And I didn't think they were as funny, because now I felt like obligated
to put it together. And it just wasn't as fun to do anymore. And I don't think the content was as
good. And again, back to Freak Factor. Freak Factor already had all these phone calls. That's where
a lot of the stuff was done. We would do it on conferences, on bridges and stuff. And I'd record
the individual calls. Well, just tune into Freak Factor and listen to them. That's when we did a lot
of this stuff anyway. So I didn't see the need in doing telephonic craptaculars anymore. So that was the
last one of those that we ever did. They were actually pretty popular. People always seemed
to like them. I think the quality went down for each subsequent one, but just couldn't keep doing
those anymore. What else? I always like Telephonic Craptacular. And I think it's first because it's on
the phone, and second because it's got a cool name. That's about it. Telephonic Craptacular.
Let's see. 102 was a good episode because we had Zerl on the show. Zerl, boy, he's just always
in school. He's got a hectic class schedule. So we finally worked around his schedule to get him
on an episode. And Zerl is the answer. That's Z-E-A-R-L-E. Zerl.com. That's the answer to the
most frequently asked question that we've ever had in the history of Binary Revolution Radio.
Who does your theme song? What is the name of your theme song? Who is that? What's that rap song at
the beginning? Well, whatever your, all of those questions, the answer is Zerl. And it was really
great on this episode. In perfect timing, having him on here, we actually got another email that
very week. I couldn't make that up if I wanted to. It absolutely happened. An email that week asking,
who does our theme song? And I was able to say, Zerl, why don't you answer this question? You know,
that was pretty cool. Zerl.com. He did the show, the opening songs. You heard at the beginning of
this show. Dedication to the Hackers and Crackers. Z-E-A-R-L-E.com. We host this site as well.
Go download it. Download all of his other music. Lots of good stuff. He did the theme song. The Hack TV
is the same song. The theme, Don't Hack TV. Underground is another one of Zerl's songs. So
he gave us the rights to use all of his music exclusively on BinRev's stuff, even though
they have been used in other places without permission. But Zerl's real cool about letting
his music out there for free. That's something he believes strongly in. So we've always been
a supporter of Zerl. So Zerl, thanks for letting us use this song for 200 episodes. This will
be the last one that we use it for. And I guess that brings us up to 104. You know,
last episode of Season 2. And in case anybody's ever wondered, you know, we, 52 weeks in a
year, in those first couple of years, we did a show every single week. Do you realize that,
not Terry, that we actually made two years of perfect attendance?
Yeah, well, hey, that's all you. I mean, some of them, but you had, you had a lot more to do
with it than I do. But that's amazing. Every single week, not missing one, that's pretty
good. And you're not getting paid for it, too. It was your job, that's one thing. But
this is just something you do for fun. And you pull it off a few years straight, that's
pretty good.
Yeah, that was very, very cool. And 104, or excuse me, 204, or 104, excuse me, being the final
episode of the show. But now here we are on episode number 200 now. And why is it not
too, technically, I guess it should be 208, if we really would have been, but we dropped
a few episodes here towards the end. So we kind of realized that we weren't going to make
that. So, I don't know, maybe in another 15 minutes, we might be wrapping this one up.
So, man, we're three hours and 20 minutes into this. This is going to be a six plus hour
show. Dude, this is going out with a bang. We're going out with a lot of shit.
Yeah, this is, if anybody can sit through this, I mean, you know, I know people listen to these
things when they go to work. You know, they may have a couple of things queued up for, you
know, to sit and listen in their office while they're programming or doing whatever they do.
But people could really just listen to this one show for the whole day.
Yeah, it really is. You know, it's okay. Break it up into multiple parts. We realize that
there's a lot of content here, but I don't, my goal here is I hope that by the time we're
done with the show, nobody's going to have any questions. We will have solved everything.
We will have cleared everything up. Controversies, the accusations, the thoughts. Why did we do
this? Why didn't you do that? What did you mean by this? I never understood this joke
or that joke and who was this guy? And I want to leave all of these questions answered.
I don't want any dangling plot lines or anything like that when the show is over with. So hopefully
we've covered everything. It's all been, I think for the most part, this has all been
new material that we've never talked about before. Some of it's probably repeated, but
Yeah, maybe a little bit. But I just want to step back for a second and take back one of the
things you said about listening to it in parts. You have to listen to the whole thing at one
shop. There's no excuses. Damn. That's it. Yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe we should
put, do you think we should put this up in three parts? Three separate files? Nah, fuck
it. They got to listen to it all at once. Yeah, they got to figure it out themselves.
No stopping. You are not allowed to pause the show and listen to it later. What if they already
pause it? Let me tell you, you know, this goes back to my hate of the iPod. But if you put
this on your iPod and you switch tracks or whatever at some point or pause it and screw
up somehow and you have to fast forward to the middle of the thing, you're going to be
there all day. So listen to it at one shot. It doesn't matter if your house is burning down
or whatever. Just keep listening. Otherwise, you'll waste your whole life trying to get back
to where you were. Great. So what if they already paused before they got to this warning
telling them that they can't pause? Is there a punishment? Yeah, we're going to, we're going
to fine them double what they paid for all the previous episodes. Well, dude, most of them
probably already paid $200 more than they should have for the iPhone. Isn't that punishment
enough? Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, it's all right. Booyah. Got to get a little iPod jab in there
at the end. Fudge. Yeah, so 104 shows consecutively, didn't miss any, didn't fudge any, fake any.
Later on, in season three and four, there's a couple times where we missed a show and I scrambled
and did like double headers the next week to catch us up. We missed one week, I would do
two episodes the next week to catch up. And that happened a few times. And there were
a couple times in season three and four where we did have a show, but the stream went down
for some reason. The streaming, the Icecast server dropped offline one time before. So
we had a show, but it didn't actually stream. I just put it up on the podcast right away.
I count that as still, we had the show, just because we had a few technical difficulties
stranding it. But for two years, we clearly, definitely, undoubtedly had a perfect attendance
record every week. So that was something I was always proud of too. And I think that
is going to be our stopping point for now. Because we're getting ready to see, we're going
to go into season three. And you know, with all due respect, you know, I love you and all
that kind of good stuff. And I appreciate you being on the show. But season three was Black
Ratchett season. So we got to get him on the show. So not theory. Anything else you want
to throw in here before we move on to season three?
No, I think we've said plenty for these people. Three and a half hours of the two of us, I
think is enough for anybody to stomach.
Yeah, but we're funny.
Oh, wait a minute. What about System Shock Store?
Probably for an hour or so. Not so much for three and a half hours.
What about System Shock Store? Did we ever find out which one that was from?
You know, I looked and there's a reference to Sister Shock Store, but it's in an episode
that I'm not in. I think it was called the DDP Roll-Up or DDP Round-Up or something.
It was an episode that Black Ratchett, I think, did the strong. So you may have clipped it in
there.
I think he might be mailed again.
I don't think you guys are even going to get a chance to get to that. I wish I could
find it, but I can.
Oh, well. Well, along and short, okay, let me solve that little running mystery thing
too. We got an email from somebody who went by the name System Shocker, who, correct me
if I'm wrong here, he had a beef with us because I bashed Metallica. Wasn't that it?
Yeah, I think so. I remember reading, either you or I was reading the email in the Metallica
voice. Right. How Metallica rules.
Oh, and then we opened the show with, BinRev, are you ready to rock?
I'm pretty sure we did. I think we did two episodes with our metal voices, but I think
we only did one for a little while. Like, maybe the first, like, you know, minute or
two. And then the other one, we read his whole email in the metal voice.
That was so fun, though. We actually wanted to do a whole episode, but that's rough on
the throat.
Yeah, I don't know how those guys do it. I don't know how, you know, Pantera or any one
of those bands can do a whole concert or like a whole tour.
Screaming, right?
Without farfing up blood at the end of every night.
Well, maybe they do. Who knows?
Like, the Mr. Move is the same way. The Mr. Move, his stuff, he's screaming and his raps
and stuff and a gravelly voice. I don't know how he does it, either, but he's so shit-faced
drunk. He probably pays for it the next day, but he doesn't mind so much. I got to say,
by the way, the Mr. Move is elite. I think that has turned me on to his music, and it
is just awesome.
And see, I bought his albums. I paid the man. It's good music. I don't mind paying for that
stuff. I bought Front of Lodge albums. I bought Optimus Rhymes albums. I bought the Mr. Move.
A lot of the music you've heard of the show, I buy them, man. I support these people because
that's good music, and that's why we... Oh, that's another thing I have. I'm glad you brought
them out. I didn't even mention that one of the other BinRev traditions, part of our
format, was at the end of every episode, I always insisted from day one and stuck with
it for four years to close the show out with some independent artist, some music from somebody
that was not known or somebody that was struggling or somebody that was making music online that
would allow us. You know, I didn't want to get into copyright issues, either. I'm not
going to close the show with Metallica or somebody that's going to sue us. So there was
that aspect, but more to the point, I wanted to support artists out there who are making
good music that need to be heard because they need to be supported. I mean, go out there
and buy the albums of these guys. Sure, you can download it. No one's naive. We're a bunch
of hackers. We know how this system works, but damn, I don't mind paying $10 for an album.
You know, that's fair. My problem is paying $20 for an album with two good songs on it that
I can't copy to my iPod legally or to my... Not that I have an iPod, God forbid. But to my MP3
player or my other devices, no, that's all bullshit, you know, but support these internet
artists that are just trying to get their music heard out there because they're the
ones that are doing new things, making good music that you haven't heard before. The music
industry right now, what's out there on the radio is such canned crap these days.
Yep, all garbage. So, the Mr. Move and, you know, the countless other bands that we've
had on and Zero, of course, for the theme music every week, they're definitely got to support
them to get out there and check them out. And check out Song Fight because I think that's,
like you said, is where Frontalot got started. So, I'm sure there's bound to be other people.
I mean, if the site's still around, I haven't checked it in a long time, but there's bound
to be other people on there who are, you know, in the same league as Frontalot.
Oh, absolutely. All right. Well, thank you, sir, for staying up all this three and a half
hours to do the show. And we're going to tack on a couple more, two or three hours with
Ratchet and a couple with Duel and who knows where we're going to go with this. But for now,
that's going to do it. So, we're going to close up Season 2 and head on in to Season 3
with Black Ratchet. Now, of course, we can't really do justice and talk about Season 3 without
having the man who actually took control of the radio show for Season 3, Black Ratchet.
And he flushed it down the toilet and a couple of turns and...
Oh, get out of here. You know that's not true.
I don't know. Have you seen some of the forum posts back in the day?
Well, yeah, but, you know, listen, there's so many more bad posts about my episodes than
yours. So, don't worry. There's always going to be the bad with the good. And I thought
so.
Well, I'm actually curious. I'm actually curious now if we pro-rate the number of episodes
versus the number of complaints, who actually sucks more?
I don't know if we pro-rate... Let's just agree that we both suck. And let's just reminisce
about how badly we sucked by individually analyzing the suckiness of each episode.
Oh, man. Each episode? Oh, man. Seriously. I just got over... I just got done with my therapist.
I thoroughly repressed these memories, and you're going to just turn them all back up.
Oh, you know, it's hard to... It takes a lot of therapy and a lot of money, and I'm dragging
you back in for... But look at it like this. This is the last time we'll ever have to do
it, theoretically.
I guess. Hold on. I'm running to the bathroom right now to get my butt all and repress it
all.
I'm going to repress it all. Oh, yes. Well, there's another patented Season 3 bad pun, bad joke
from Black Ratchet. I'm full of them, baby.
And we're not going to go through every episode, but let's pick out some of the highlights.
We did it with Season 1 and Season 2, so let's continue the trend here with Season 3, which
started with Episode 105.
The first one was sort of like, oh, boy, we have a radio show. We have to find things out
to talk about.
Well, when you did the show, did you find yourself with the, what in the hell have we
gotten into?
Yes, very much so. If you listen to the first couple of episodes, it's pretty much me and
Strom basically going up to the mic and going, is this thing on?
Well, there's a little bit of a learning curve, but the thing is, we'd already done some shows
together, you and I, anyway. So you had a feel for it. You knew the format. And frankly,
the bottom line is, you know, I was ready to call it quits. Like I said earlier, I was
Season 2, I had some personal stuff going on, some real life stuff, moving, new job, all
that kind of stuff. So I was pretty much resigned to ending it, and there really was only a couple
of people that I would hand it over to, and those people were you and Duel. Now, Duel
had pulled out...
Those people who were usually suckered into it?
Yeah. Yeah, let me rephrase. The people who were foolish enough to give it a shot. And no,
seriously, I told you this back then. I mean, I would not just turn this over to anybody.
I didn't want somebody to take over the show and make drastic changes, certainly change it.
I mean, everybody's going to put their spin on it. But the important thing was having
the format and properly taking care of the show and, you know, the style of the show,
the regularity of doing a weekly show, all those things were important to me. And, you know,
oh, you and Duel were the only people I trusted. Duel was, of course, out of the scene. And,
you know, you were smart or stupid enough to step up and agree to take over season three.
Oh, sure. This will be easy. Yeah, right.
And thus began the season of Asterisk, iPods, and Gen 2.
Oh, shit. Oh, God. I remember doing that. Dude, we had like a streak of like how many shows?
Well, I think it was like a streak of like 10 shows where we tried to mention it at least once
because it started out actually completely by accident. Right.
And all of a sudden we started people saying, you know, noticing it and people started calling us out on it.
So we actually, just to piss those people off, we started mentioning it every episode.
Well, and you know what? It's like I mentioned my sweet iced tea on every episode
and I sort of ranted on Google on every episode a little bit somewhere here and there.
And you know what? It's just, it happens. And the thing is, especially, especially with Asterisk,
that was hot. That was big at the time and everybody was really into it at that time.
So it's kind of appropriate, you know. iPods always have sucked and always will.
So you can't really get away from that topic.
Oh, I just bought a new iPod a couple of months ago.
Oh, my God. I, see, once again, Foyt.
Oh, my God. As soon as I can invent Foyt.
Oh, God.
If I had Foyt right now, fist over IP, I would punch you through the phone.
Sister, where I'd be.
Oh, gosh.
Anyway, so episode 105 again and then where'd you go from there?
106 and 107 were interesting because they were what we call, or what I call anyway, the conference shows.
Yeah, well, 106 was basically, we knew that we were both going to,
Tom and I knew we were both going to DEVCON, so we decided to do 106 was going to be, you know,
because a lot of people really don't know, you know, what the hell would do when they're going to cons
and how everything works, and I mean, the first time I went to DEVCON, I was like,
God, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, and, you know, that was, I felt that was actually
a topic that people wanted, and sure enough, you know, people did respond as well to it,
and I think we covered a lot of things, and I think at the time, it was like one of the
few resources around besides, like, the DEVCON fact, I guess you could say, where it was, you know,
here's how to survive DEVCON, which is, unfortunately, a lot of people don't pay attention to
when you see these guys wearing all black and sweating like pigs and feeling very, very bad.
We warned people to wear deodorant and possibly bring nose plugs.
That was always a good rule of thumb.
But we did this, you know, this wasn't the first, we did these, like, through season one and two,
I don't think I mentioned them when I was listing shows from those, but we always did a conference
follow-up show, or even, I think we did a conference or two preview show, but so many people can't make
it, you know, and it's like, there's, you don't know what to expect. Some people have little questions
like, should I bring my laptop or not, and et cetera, et cetera. Other people were more interested
in hearing reviews of some of the talks and some of the news that came out of there, so
we tried to cover all of those things, and I think they were always good. That was one
of those, you could always do a topic, there were a couple topics, but I always said this
to you, and there were a couple topics that you could always be there. You know, sometimes
you struggle for content, but there's certain things you can always do. You can always do
conference review shows, because they are, in fact, interesting. It's not, I don't consider
that one a cop-out topic. We certainly have had some cop-out topics over the years, but that's
not one of them. Conference review shows, I think, are always on topic, always good.
2600 Magazine came out once every three months. You can always do reviews, discussions of articles
or content of that, a review of that. I think that's always on topic stuff, so those are a
couple of regular things that we could always do. So, as many conferences as there have been
the last few years, between you, myself, Strom, everybody in the DDP, there's always some
sort of representation at these cons. So, we could always do and talk about every con,
just about from somebody, somebody was there. So, we could always do some sort of review.
Yeah, I'm going to say, thank God we had a cop-out topic. I guess you could still call
it that. Was it 107? Because, essentially, Red Nerd and I, who were one of the guys that
went out to Vegas from Boston, we caught the red eye back. I think we left.
Oh, I hate that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was, like, something I do not want to repeat.
I'll just, I'll stop an extra day on there, whatever. I think we left at, like, 10 p.m.,
and we rolled into Boston at 6 a.m. Now, that was, we left, the way it worked out is we left
Monday night, and I think we came back Tuesday, you know, bright and early Tuesday morning.
And so, what I had to do is, I had to, you know, we, Strong and I, because Strong was
in Los Angeles. That's, like, a six-hour drive. That's nothing, compared to a cross-country
trek. And so, you know, basically, I had to get, I flipped from, like, you know, 6 till
noon, and I think we got up and, or, I think it was actually later than that, I got up and
basically had breakfast, and then we had to take the radio show and have it up by, you know,
up and streaming by the appointed hour of 9.30 Eastern.
Yeah, and, and I actually was, um, between New York and Vegas, I was, I never, I didn't
even get home. I think I missed all these episodes until I got back and was, had to catch up on
them all. Because ZeroDB and I spent the whole week, we took our vacation, head up to New York
City, head out to Las Vegas, and yeah, that red eye, that's all you can ever get, really,
coming back from Vegas. Most of the flights back to the East Coast are red eyes, and I always
hated that. I mean, you can catch an early morning flight, maybe, but that sucks too,
getting up at the butt crack of dawn to catch a flight back, and your whole day is shot when you
get there anyway. So, most of the flights coming out of there are red eyes. Everybody going to the
East Coast is getting a red eye out of Vegas, and that's the worst thing ever, especially for me,
I can't sleep on the plane. Yeah. So, anyway. It was, it was, it was, it was definitely the,
sort of the rude awakening of, God damn, we have to do this every week, what the hell's
wrong with us? Yeah, and you know what, it's always, it always takes a little recovery getting
back from us too, because most of us are having to go back to work like the next day when we
get back. Well, Redner, Redner, the freaking idiot, decided to say, oh, I'll work on Tuesday.
Yeah, I did, I did that one too. Yeah, my, my father picked us up from the airport and dropped
us off, and his car was stashed at my house, and he basically showered, changed, and then drove off
to work, and I was like, you freaking idiot. Yeah, well, I did the exact same thing, and came home,
threw my luggage in the closet, jumped in the shower, I made the mistake of actually laying
down on the bed, and bam, I was out, and I ended up going into work three or four hours late,
even still completely exhausted, so, yeah, those, those are rough times, those are rough times. Hey,
how about episode 108, didn't you tell me you had a funny story for that, behind that one?
Wasn't there something? Well, it really wasn't a funny hidden story, because if you listen to the
episode, but, uh, Strom was, uh, driving home from Linux World, I think it was, um, they
was either Linux World, no, I think it was Linux World, because, that was another thing,
because after the show, I think by, like, the next day on Wednesday, he drove up to, I
think, San Francisco, uh, to, uh, meet up with some friends up there, and, for Linux World
in San Francisco, and then he was coming back for the next episode, so, he was a little, uh,
international, or, well, interstate jet center there, such he was driving, but anyway, but
if you listen to that show, I think he, like, pulled over for gas at one point, and, uh,
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah. It was sort of like, uh, it was, it's okay, and I was still not comfortable handling
the show by myself at that point, but, I mean, because, because getting back to the whole,
you know, oh, yeah, you've done the show before, it gets a lot different when you're the one,
you know, behind the steering wheel, doing the show, trying to keep people on topic,
and talking about things, and making sure you hit all your points, and, it's a lot
easier to come in, you know, have you driving, like, what, exactly what I'm doing right now
is, you know, yeah, I just want to rap about a couple of shows, and whatever, and, you
know, he'll take all the important stuff happening, and make sure he's sitting on top
of it and everything, but, when you're that person, you're, you're essentially the moderator,
so, it's like, whoa, okay, so, let's actually have to pay attention to this crap, I get
to, go off and talk about random crap.
Well, and, and, you know, some people are better or worse than others about
going off topic, you know, this, see, I, I don't mind going a little bit off topic
and drifting, as long as you rein it back in, you've got to rope it back in at some
point, don't let it turn into an entire, you know, mess, so, that's the thing, is, you
know, some of my favorite shows, some of the funnest shows are like, you know, Nat is down
at the, buying a cappuccino, you can hear in the background, the cash registers, and people
calling out Vente, or whatever the hell they have at this Starbucks and those places, those
are the funny ones, as long as it's kept to a minimum, and it keeps the show real, and
the, you know, the reality aspect of the show, we're hackers, doing show where we can fit
in, you know, and.
Well, wasn't there one where Dan was in New York and he was trying to call in from a payphone
or something?
And the screeching and the sirens and everything, yeah, there was the subway going behind him.
Oh, that was, yeah, we talked, that, that, that, that, that was one of my favorites,
too, that was just, I, and I couldn't stop laughing the rest of the episode because of that.
I thought the man, I thought he was dead.
That was like a crazy episode.
I thought the kid was dead.
All of a sudden, these horrible loud sirens and noises, I thought somebody, I thought a
car ran into him and hit him while he was talking on the payphone.
Oh, that was good stuff.
That would make for an interesting radio, I would give him that.
Man, Nat is that hardcore.
Yeah, well, that would be a, definitely be a Bounty Revolution radio first, somebody dying
on air.
That would have been, um.
We could have, we, we seriously, if someone died on air, we could, like, like, become the
next internet name.
Yeah, that would probably be a, definitely a best of episode.
Uh, well, I guess.
Oh, that guy died while taping a show.
In, in, in lieu of best of episodes, let's continue with our worst of NREF radio review
here.
Um, actually, I guess we can say that, like, episodes 110, 111, 112, a little cluster of them
there, was where the asterisk dynasty begins.
I would just call it the dynasty, thank you very much.
Asterisk, iPod, and Gentoo.
Yeah, well, we'll be, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, leave us alone.
Anyway, um, 110 was, 110 and 112, I actually don't remember why I wasn't there for 111.
That was the first show, I guess I skipped out on.
Uh, 110 and 112 were, um, basically Charmini's, uh, were for DEF CON 13, DEF CON 13, was it?
I don't know.
Whatever the, uh, DEF CON that we were talking about previous in 2005, um, was, we did a presentation,
and we wanted to record it, but the way DEF CON works is you can't record your own presentation
because they're crazy about that, so what we just did is we basically just, uh, more or
less stripped down version of the presentation.
I think we dropped off, like, a couple of slides, so we really couldn't convert over to radio
that well, um, on the radio show, and that basically just bought us two episodes to have
something to talk about, and because we split over two episodes just because the presentation
was like two hours, so, and, uh, you know, it was, it was, to me, I mean, we did like
all kinds of stuff on asterisk, and it was actually interesting shit, so it was actually
well thought out as opposed to, oh, other topics.
Yeah, you know, that's actually, I don't know if I mentioned that earlier when we talked
about season one or two, but at some point there, I don't remember where, maybe I did
mention it, I don't remember, but, um, at some point there, when we first started the
show, it was supposed to be one hour, and, you know, we had a one hour time limit, and,
you know, I talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk, and, uh, I don't
think, quite honestly, we, we ever did an hour show.
I mean, maybe the first one or two, I don't even remember, to be honest with you, but luckily
for us, and, and when we first started, we were streaming on Rant Radio, and we had a
one hour time slot, but we kind of knew that we had a tendency to go over by a couple
of minutes, so we kind of set up our time slot, instead of us being back-to-back sandwiched
with a show in front of us and behind us, we gave ourselves a half hour buffer between
our show and the next show that was on the schedule, so that way if we went over by a
few minutes, it wasn't a big deal, they would, uh, back then there was only one stream on Rant
Radio, and they would mix in music for, like, if we went an hour and five minutes, they'd
put 25 minutes of music, and then the next show would start at its regular time.
Well, it's one of those things where, once we had the extra half hour, we pretty much
started using it, so, even though it was originally intended to be a one hour show, we definitely
became an hour and a half show every time, and we never really had too much trouble filling
an hour and a half.
If anything, I ended up putting a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor, I've played some
outtakes at the end of some episodes in the past, and I've used some of the material for
the telephonic craptaculars that we used to do, but, um, yeah, we never really had a
problem filling an hour most.
There were certainly some exceptions to that, but most of the time, it was more an aspect
of not getting enough time.
Probably because we did all these side-rambling stories and stuff like that, but we don't
have that limitation tonight.
We can go as long as we damn well please.
Mm-hmm.
Creating now.
What episode were we up to there?
Uh, that's not a good question.
1-13?
I think we were up to, yeah, up to 1-13, and, um, yeah, these are just, uh, ongoing projects
like, you know, video editing and hack TVE that we were, uh, running a bin rev meeting.
Yeah, bin rev meetings, I mean, unfortunately I never really got to set one up in Boston.
I'm always kind of bummed about that.
Yeah, and there's a big scene in Boston.
Actually, one of my guys, uh, Quine from my BR-407 moved up there, and, um, there's definitely
a lot of people up there that probably could start a pretty good meeting, but it's one of those
things, again, matter of time.
That's what everything in life is, is time.
Tell them what it is.
No.
Uh, let's see, what else jumped out?
No, 1-16, 1-16 jumps out at me.
You know, 1-15 was fine, WordPress we went over.
A lot of these things, it's not, like, I'm skipping over episodes randomly, but it's only
because, you know, there's not too much to add on it, there's no story to add on it since
then, but 1-16, I thought, was kind of an interesting story, because, interestingly,
intro to Freaking was the name of that one, and, I mean, that was just, I don't know what
more people could want than to have Black Ratchet, Strong Carlson, and Natus, three of
the greatest phone freaks that I've known, all giving you an introduction to Freaking.
I mean, come on, what more, seriously, what more could anybody ask for?
I mean, seriously, unless, you know, that's, unless you can get Alexander Graham Bell from
Beyond the Grave or something, I don't know how you could top the host on that show, you
know, and appropriate to the topic.
Well, I mean, it was just something that we were, I mean, I was, we were all really into
it, and, I mean, we just really, I mean, we wanted to talk about stuff that we know,
I mean, we can just sort of, you know, make it up as we go along, but at the same point,
you know, that's, I mean, it's going to turn into a sucky episode, unfortunately, and,
you know, it's an intro to Freaking was something we talked about.
I think the, like, the original, there was, like, about when we first, when I first came
up with the show, there was, like, you know, I came up with, like, ten or so topics that
I really wanted to cover, and this was actually one of them.
So, this is, I forget the other ones, and actually, I turned this into more or less a
presentation for Hope No. 6, which, you know, some people probably went to, but it covers
a lot of the same stuff, and it was, it's a really good topic, and it's, like I said,
it's something that we knew about, and it's something we could actually wrap about with
something where we wouldn't sound like absolute morons, as opposed to other times.
Well, you know, and there's another point in there, too, and it's something I've said
on the show many times.
Things that, things may start off, you know, as just an episode of the radio show.
They may start off as some research you're doing and a little article or a small presentation
at a BINREV meeting or 2600 meeting.
It may start off as just a radio show or whatever, but it's either well-received or it's something
that you think you can build on to make better, and it grows and grows and does become a presentation
at a conference or something like that.
So, you know, a lot of the stuff that we talked about in the show has ended up turning
into or were built around topics that you or I or other people have actually presented
at conferences.
I mean, the act of doing research and learning is planning a lot of ideas into our heads and
hopefully the listeners' heads and giving people ideas and giving us ideas of what to
talk about.
So, yeah, of course, just by very nature of sharing it, it's something that's in our head.
It's something we may follow up on and go further with.
So, you know, BINREV radio spawned a lot of content, a lot of topics, not only for us,
but for other people as I went into on my season one recap of certain people borrowing information
from us under their own name, but we won't go back to that.
So, as a matter of fact, let's move on to, like, what's another one that jumps out at
you?
Oh, okay, I got one.
How about 119?
That was a BINREV first.
Episode of, no, that was our first live episode, and that was something that we really wanted
to do, and because the way, I mean, you have this, you know, Uber, underground, super deep
setup with your speakerphone and your microphone.
Dude, I am so low-tech, old-school low-tech.
Yeah, which is wonderful when you only have one host that can actually be physically there.
But, you know, considering that I was in Boston and Strom was in Los Angeles, and we kind of
had about, oh, 3,000 miles separating us, it was rather difficult to get us both at the
same point at the same time.
So, we had to record everything over asterisk, and I think this is actually, I've got to give
credit for Strom on this, that he wanted to do a live episode with, you know, people actually
calling in and such.
So, he actually did a little research, and what Strom and I used to record this on is
we actually used to both call into a asterisk bridge, and asterisk has a way of recording
everything that comes over a telephone conversation.
And what we used to do is we used to, you know, when we record the episode over our telephone,
and then we'd all edit it, and splice them all together, and do all kinds of technical
hickory pokelory on it.
And what would come out was the final episode, which is why, basically, when you listen to
a season three episode, it sounds like we're all talking on the phone, because that's who
we are.
Right.
Well, and it's certainly more flexible, and gives you a lot more freedom, and a lot more
functionality to doing the show, like, you guys are taking call-ins as well.
Mm-hmm.
And I was actually just listening to this episode a few weeks ago, just because I was, like,
screening through my new iPod and saying, oh, hey, the first live episode, this ought
to be fun.
That's right, iPod.
All you need to do is mention Gentoo, and this will be complete on the trifecta for this
episode.
Oh, crap.
I don't use Gentoo, so...
Oh, man.
We'll have to find a way of working again.
All right.
Um, fuck, who was the first call-in?
And I was actually...
I think...
Was it living dead?
I don't remember, to be honest with you.
That's...
In it, and I was actually, when I was listening to this, I was a little like, oh, wow, it's
so-and-so, and it's actually...
I was kind of expecting it to be someone, you know, no longer in the scene, but it was
someone who is still active, and I completely forget who it is.
And it just makes me sad, and I'll have to...
I'm going to have to, like, re-listen to that episode now, because I'm driving enough
tonight.
Episode 119.
Anybody can re-listen to it from the archive page at radio.binrev.com.
You can listen to any of these episodes we've been talking about.
If any of them strikes your fancy, or, you know, maybe some of the backstories or jokes,
you might want to go back and listen to it now with that in mind, and realize what might
have been going on in the background.
This is like our...
Oh, crap.
The director's...
Yeah, the director commentary, the...
Actually, the other interesting thing with this is, you know, we thought that, oh, you
know, we'd just be, you know, Strom and I, Strom would actually go out, and I'd rap on
and, you know, talk about something before the caller comes in, and I realized that that
didn't work very quickly, because basically, in order to do the silence, we actually had
someone sent us in a bunch of stank dog sound clips.
And that's what I played when it was, like, awkward silence, and I realized very quickly
that I was doing that far too much, so I was like, we need to get a call screener.
And thankfully, Dr. Zitten stepped up to the plate and took that over, and he basically
sat on all the live shows waiting for someone to call in, and sometimes people didn't call
in, and that was just, like, crazy.
It was all like, wow, man, you must have no life.
That was the drawback to doing the live shows, is you couldn't do a live show in lieu of content.
You still had to come with content and topics and everything to talk about, and then take
some calls if it added to it, but waiting for people to call in...
Which is something we never learned.
Yeah.
That was definitely a lesson learned.
Yeah.
And, you know, actually, weren't there a couple episodes, though?
This is the only thing about Asterisk that I didn't like, recording with Asterisk.
It certainly added a whole lot of functionality, and it's definitely a better way of doing it.
I concede that totally.
But there was, I know, at least one episode, maybe two or three, where I just, they were
unlistenable to me, because I got you talking in one of my ears, and Strom talking in the
other one.
I'm on my headphones, listening at work, and, like, I remember doing a, I don't know
if you can do a double take while listening and not looking at something, but I'm sitting
there coding, and the new episode started, the theme music played, and then all of a
sudden I hear you talking on one side, and him on the other.
I'm looking left and right going, what in the holy hell is going on here?
That's just the voice in your head, man.
What do you, I mean, don't try to blame us on us.
Oh, yeah, I guess that was probably all me.
Yeah.
Whatever.
That was Strom.
He decided to be fancy, and I actually didn't mind it that much, to be honest with you,
but I think we got enough complaints that that quickly died.
Oh, really?
I wouldn't say, not quickly enough, but it did die.
I mean, there's still a few episodes out there that have that, but it was sort of universally
tanned, so.
I don't know if it would have been, maybe it would have been a little bit more tolerable
if I was listening on real speakers, but inside the headphone it was clearly delineated,
and there was no blend at all, and it really felt like I was, you ever be in those situations
where you're out with people, and you're like the third wheel, and they're talking over
you, one's on your left, one's on your right, and you're in the middle, you're like, hey,
get away from me.
No, no, no, I never have that problem, man.
I don't know about you.
I don't know what's up with you.
Well, I think you've got some kind of problems.
I don't know.
Not as many problems as Dual Parallel, maybe, you know, taking the time to get back to me,
but anyway, let's continue on with the show, and maybe Dual will call me back in an hour
and a half or so, in case you can't tell I'm talking to him on my cell phone with trying
to be all inconspicuous about it.
So hopefully he'll call me back.
No, where the hell are you?
See, that's the other great thing.
I hope you're going to call me here.
That's the other great thing about BinRev Radio is we don't stop for shit.
You know, we keep right on going with the show.
So, yeah, hopefully Dual will call me back.
Actually, the next show that I want to talk about is actually something really related to
you, is how not to be a moron on the internet.
Did you just call me a moron on the internet?
Not that I disagree with that.
No, no, no, I'm talking about how you have to deal with all these guys.
Oh, my God, you just don't even know sometimes.
You know, listen, I'm a bit of a moron myself.
There's nothing wrong with having a little fun and stuff, but, well, first of all, I think
that might win the best title for a show all season long.
That might be the best title for a show, but...
No, no, no, no.
You thought it was really funny, but we'll get into my favorite title later.
Oh, great.
This actually was one of your titles, so...
Was it?
Okay, we'll see coming up.
That one was one of the most...
We'll say it was one of the best titles.
One of the most eye-catching, I guess, titles anyway.
Oh, yeah, I know.
I hope you're not talking about the one I think you're talking about.
We'll get to that later.
Yeah, I think it is.
I think you know what exactly I'm talking about, but anyway...
Oh, great.
I hate that one.
I hate that title.
Anyway...
I saw that tonight, but we'll talk about it later.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We'll try to stay in some kind of sequence here.
Yeah, this is one of our show topics where it was...
I think it was lost on all of the audience, and, well, actually, the people who didn't
need it understood it, and the people who didn't need it had no idea, so...
I mean, we basically covered how not to be an idiot, and, you know, basically how to
just sit there.
Because, you know, people just come on these damn forums, and, I mean, I'm not going to
say anything about our forums.
Go ahead.
Occasionally, you get the stupid person out there who just comes in and just asks them
all these questions, and, you know, they're very obtuse, and you try to, you know, explain
to them in very basic terms, and they're like, no, you're wrong, I'm smart, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
But that's basically what we try to cover.
I mean, 90% of the people out there aren't that way, so, I mean, but it's that 10% that
are, like, 90% of the noise.
I don't know if I'd say 90%, but I'll play along for now.
Be nice.
Be nice, thanks.
Be nice.
Some of it...
All right, see, the thing is, I have a...
This is probably back-ass words, I'll admit that, but for some reason, my...
The way I feel about this is, I have a little more patience for the total noobs that come
in and act like that.
You know, I know a lot of people get frustrated when people ask questions, and admittedly,
they don't even try to find the answer on their own.
They just come in, register, and say, hey, how do I hack hotmail, or whatever the case
may be.
As annoying as that can be over time, that's not what is the biggest annoyance of them.
That is not my biggest pet peeve.
I mean, yes, they're annoying, but that's why we have a new BHQ, and if that type of
stuff annoys you, you probably should stay out of that forum.
They're contained there for the most part.
Of course, there's a few strays here and there, but the mods will move them in there.
That's not the ones that bother me.
The ones that bother me more, the bigger morons on the internet are not noobs.
They're the elitists who think that they're a genius and tell you you're wrong and try
to brag about how much they know.
The people who go into new BHQ and try to answer 20 topics in a row, acting like they're
a big authority, trying to make a big name for themselves or act like they're Mr. Big Shot,
and then I have to go in, or our moderating team has to go in, or somebody else in the
forums who's knowledgeable has to go in and go, okay, you're wrong, here's why, and trying
to do that in a polite way is very difficult.
I'm just saying that's like next to impossible, really.
Yeah, it's important.
Because technically, no matter how nice you are to the person, they'll come back because
they have a chip on their shoulder now because you basically said, no, you're stupid.
Right.
I mean, and essentially, that's what you did say, and most of them are coming off and
actually seeing it for what it is, but they don't want to admit that they're stupid, so.
Boy, I'm trying to be diplomatic, and you're just throwing them under the stupid butt.
Oh, screw it, man.
I don't know.
I don't really, you know, do that too often, so, hey.
There you go.
I just work now.
I'm sad to admit that I hardly actually go onto the forums anymore.
I just don't have time.
The moron on the internet ratio is still as high as it ever was.
Yeah, and I'm sad to admit I'm not contributing.
I mean, I wish I could knock that down a little bit, but I can't.
Hey, I'm just glad I was able to finally get you on to do the show tonight.
Yeah, yeah.
Basically, I mean, the reason why the show is so late, everyone, you can send a lot of hate
emails to me, unfortunately, because, like, I just got a new job about a month or two
ago, and it's just, it's great, but it's just really kicking my ass, and really, I just come
home, and I say, man, I don't want to use the computer right now.
Yeah, well, no.
Yeah, or talk on the phone, or talk to anybody, or I basically just want to sit home and cuddle
with Mrs. Ratchet.
Aw, isn't that precious?
You don't have to go all making excuses or any of that kind of stuff.
Real life happens.
We've always said that all along, you know, so it always takes precedence over everything,
including the show.
If I had to fly solo tonight, I would have, and ended the show with maximum suckage, but
luckily, we had you on here, so let's see, where do we go from here?
123, kind of a baby default episode, 123.
I thought that was a good episode, because it's, well, kind of still appropriate today.
The story and the topics covered on that, which was entitled Merger Mania, was about
the whole Ma Bell, and the breakup, and all the telcos, and then how they all inbred each
other, and intermingled, and became what it is today again, and even, when was this episode?
This was recorded, what, 2005?
I'm actually looking that up right now, because it just occurred to me.
I'm not sure if we were just doing something for the, yeah, I just think we were coming
back, yeah, I don't think we actually are talking about...
I'm pretty sure it was before the AT&T...
That's what...
But it was before AT&T bought...
Singular.
Bought Singular, no, it was before AT&T bought Bell South, but it was when AT&T announced
they were buying SBC.
SBC was buying AT&T and renaming themselves AT&T.
And actually, this is another really cool episode, because...
Was AT&T Angular still around then, too, or was that later?
No, this was when Singular was still there, AT&T Wireless got bought into Singular, but
this was also before Singular renamed themselves AT&T, because Singular was partially owned by
Ben...
Oh, my head's exploding!
And Bell South, oh yeah, I'm going on to hardcore tech.
Anyway, but here's, before we actually have Head of Stank Dog's head explode, this is a
fun episode, too, because Natus was in line, I think, was it an Xbox or was it an Xbox 360?
Oh, is that the one?
Yeah, he was out there trying to make some money hustling to get in line for an Xbox to
sell it on eBay.
Yeah, yeah.
Was that that episode?
He made a sweet profit on that.
I'll give him props for that.
I thought he was stupid, but for the amount of time that he invested in it, I think we
calculated now that he made over $80 an hour.
And I'm like, damn, I don't even charge from helping that much.
Right, Natus is a hustler, man.
He's a hustler.
Natus is like the...
Dude, what I want to do, I mean, if my Photoshop skills were real cool, I'd find a way of putting
Natus on the Monopoly box with the money bills coming out of his pockets, because that's
him.
Dude, if we ever make Hackeropoly, which is one of my project ideas in the members forum
from years ago, if we ever make Hackeropoly, we've got to have a little, like, instead
of having the shoe and the iron, we've got to have Natus.
We've got to have Natus with his gold chain around his neck.
And then people get to fight.
I want to be Natus.
Who doesn't want to be Natus?
Well, obviously.
Duh.
Oh, man.
Let's see.
Oh, 124, Postgres.
Yeah.
With Natus trying to tell us that Postgres doesn't suck.
Yeah, Postgres sucks.
It still sucks.
No, it doesn't.
I tried to learn it.
I tried to figure it out.
I tried to make sure.
Oh, man, it's so much better than my S2O.
Dude, I'm sorry.
Postgres still sucks.
No way.
Postgres rocks.
It's hardcore.
Like, I was just out...
I'm dropping F-bombs on this episode.
Yeah, that's all right.
You know what?
That was another phase we went through where we were trying to hold back language for a
while.
I was trying to be more work-friendly and stuff like that.
And I finally just said, you know what?
Yeah, we were like, totally.
Yeah, man, fuck swearing.
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
Damn it.
Fuck that one up.
Oh, damn it.
I did it again.
Son of a bitch.
Oh, no.
Compounding.
You're a fucking moron.
Oh, fuck you.
No, we finally just accepted that the show is not safe for work.
We've said that.
There were some warnings on the web page all along.
I went through a phase where I tried to say, you know what?
A lot of people have problems with the language, which I do understand and respect, but I just...
I gotta be me.
I'm sorry.
And I'm not bragging, and it's certainly not anything I'm proud of.
My vocabulary skills are, I guess, that dependent on foul language.
But, you know, sometimes it gets the point across better.
It's funnier.
And it's just...
You know, it's just keeping it real.
So...
That's what we do here on Midnight Radio.
We keep it real.
Love everything else.
You got it.
125, the very next episode, actually, a pretty big one for Strong.
Him and Lance James co-hosted that episode.
Yeah.
I'm totally drawing blanks on why I wasn't here on these episodes.
I think this was...
I was buying a house.
Well, you went, like, for a while there, you got the marriage, you're buying a house, new
job, moving.
You got a bunch of stuff going on there through...
Well, off and on through all of season three, really.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, this is one of our cool episodes, because, you know, Lance James, you know, I
mean, he knows his shit.
He does.
He's, like...
He's hardcore.
Oh, he's a good fishing expert, right?
And he wrote the book Fishing Exposed, and they talked about that.
So, definitely, if there's anything fishing-related, you're going to see Lance James' name attached
to it somehow.
Mm-hmm.
And it's still around.
So, I mean, this is an episode, one of those episodes you can actually still listen to.
I mean, yeah, you know, techniques have changed and everything, but, you know, that's still
a very prevalent...
Right.
...problem in the network.
I mean, the network, the internets, the interwebs, the global interwebs.
Right.
Fishing in the tubes, baby.
Fishing in the tubes.
Hell yeah.
And actually, it was a couple episodes after that that I think was one of, probably, definitely,
well, yeah, definitely in my top ten, I'm not sure where, episodes was 127 with you and
not theory.
This, this, we, uh, this was one of my more favorite episodes.
More favorite episodes?
Is that proper grammar?
Yeah.
It's wrong.
We're wrong.
We speak, we fail English, that's impossible.
This was one of my favorite episodes.
This was a solid episode, and I think another thing that I was proud of was that we kept
it to an hour and a half or pretty much close to it, which was something that I always really
made the problems with.
But, um, we, we, we took care of it, and, I mean, we talked about it, and we, because
basically, this was right before Visual Studio, or right after Visual Studio 2000, another,
Visual Studio 2005 was released.
And I, and this basically just started between a conversation and not theory high, because
we were talking, and basically we agreed, you know, Visual Studio 2005 really doesn't
suck as much as we thought it would.
And he's like, oh, geez, yeah, totally.
Most didn't actually say that, but he was saying it in those not theory-esque ways.
What can I say?
You guys turn into Valley Girls, or what?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, totally.
Like, the guy, you see, sharp rocks.
There were, there were a lot of times, there were a whole lot of times where we'd made jokes
and almost went through with doing episodes, the entire episode in, like, funny voices.
Like, that started back in, with Not Theory and I in, uh, System Shock Soar and our rock
and roll, 80s rock and roll voices.
We were so tempted, we were always going to do Talk Like a Pirate episodes on Talk Like
a Pirate Day, and we never went through with any of it, because we thought it would be too
detracting to the content.
Yeah, and, I'm sure many people are glad to do that.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure.
Hey, my, my whole, this is not an accent or a joke voice that I do now.
I'm beyond, contrary to popular belief, I'm just a little bit of a redneck, so this is,
this is real voice.
This is real me.
Um, but back to this, um, one of the things that's difficult that I don't think of.
You're a redneck?
No.
No, just a little, I'm no droops, but I'm, you know, a little bit.
I'm not redneck, I'm country, there's a difference, but I'm not going to go into the semantics
of that.
No, he's hardcore.
Yeah, yeah, right.
Um, the thing that I don't think a lot of people appreciate with episodes like this is, you know,
some people want really, really hardcore tech, and that's really difficult to pull off on
the radio, and we've talked about it before, but this is a great example of it.
You don't want to just read source code to people over the radio, you know, audio of you
reading commands and stuff like that, that's difficult to pull off.
It can be done, and you can give a few examples, maybe some functions or some tips and stuff
like that.
I did an episode of, um, of, uh, TWA, uh, Today with a Tech Radio, and, um, I had to be careful
and try to keep it entertaining and interesting and not completely dry when you talk about topics,
especially code-related topics.
So, I don't know.
Yeah, and it's really, I mean, we, I mean, we can, we can, we can go out and we can talk
about, oh, okay, so then we go, C-O-U-T, broke it, broke it, quote, and that's like, that's
stuff, you know, process, someone actually picks up what language that is, I'll give you
credit for that, but that's kind of, kind of obvious, and if you've been an experience
to it, you should know, but, um, I mean, you can't do that, that's boring, I mean, but
I think we did a really good episode, I'm just talking about why we like visual
studio, you know, why .NET, and this, Visual Studio 2005, kind of, like, really turned
my eyes on to, like, hey, you know, .NET and Microsoft, this Microsoft thing really doesn't
suck as much as everyone says, and kind of really just took me down that path, and I'm
sure people are just pulling out their hair going, my God, no!
Yeah, it's hard, and, and the other thing is, too, you're trying to balance to an audience
of varied experiences and knowledge levels, so if you go too light on the topic, then your
hardcore people are going to be disappointed, and if you go too hardcore, you're going to
be above a lot of people's heads, so you had to kind of balance that.
We always try to structure the shows, and again, it goes back to how much emphasis I
always put on and leaned on you about structure and how important that was that we start off
and cater to new people, explain the basics, do some terminology on some of the tech episodes,
and work our way into the deeper aspect of it, so that we get people caught up to speed
as quickly as possible, if, if it was possible, in some cases, maybe not.
What about, there was another, actually, let's jump ahead to 128, because there's a little
bit of trivia there that I don't know that a lot of people caught up on.
I don't, did you even mention on the show the significance of the title of that episode,
128?
No, what we're talking about 128 is free-floating hostility, and I'm actually glad Stank pointed
this out, because I don't think anyone ever noticed this.
Free-floating hostility is a George Carlin routine.
That's from one of the CDs, where you get, and it's basically more or less what we talked
about was things that pisses off, and of course, he did it probably a lot funnier than we did,
but I didn't, I don't think I mentioned that, and I think my logic at the time was, I wanted
to see who would notice, and I don't think anyone did, unfortunately.
And, I was actually, yeah, you caught it, but I'm a George, you get the official bin
red gold star.
I'm a George Carlin fan, so it kind of jumped out at me.
Now, was this a cop-out episode?
What was this episode about?
Oh, it was a bit of a cop-out episode, because we, as a left, didn't have a topic, but we
just had some stuff that, you know, just stuff that pisses us off, and we had a, this is
essentially, you know, damn it, we're on our soapbox, you know, you know, Emmanuel Goethstein
can talk about, you know, socialism and all those wonderful things.
We can go talk about things that piss us off.
Right.
Well, and yeah, we've made a lot of allegations, or references, I guess is a better choice of
words, to how we tried to avoid politics whenever we could.
But actually, let's jump ahead a few episodes here, let's, uh...
Actually, here's something I want to talk about, 128.
I just knew this was when I was looking through the show episode.
Um, we were actually doing a map of binary revolution radio listeners, and I completely
forgot, actually, this occurs to me occasionally, um, but I just turned it back on, and I looked
at it, and we've got some far-flung people out here.
Is that thing still alive?
Yeah, yeah, it is.
It's actually, they've improved the, they've improved the look quite a bit, and they actually
don't, I just believe, like, Google Map ripoff anymore.
Still Google Maps, but we can tell.
Um, I'm just going to rattle off a few names here.
We have E-minus in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Holy cow.
And we have Daniel in Gauteng, South Africa.
Man, that's one thing I always love.
Yeah, oh yeah, no, we're not done yet.
We have, we have Madar in Taipei, which is also known as Taiwan for us American folk.
Um, and he's actually written into the show before, if I remember correctly, because I
don't think there's, unless there's two people in Taiwan who are listening to the show.
Awesome.
Um, and the other one that kind of stuck out in the middle of nowhere, hold on, I wouldn't
say middle of nowhere, because I'm sure it's a, yeah, it's a huge community, because it's
Singapore, it's beautiful noise.
We have some people in Australia, I think it looks like we have someone in Sweden.
There's lots in the UK, and Ireland, and England.
Oh, Prince Vegeta in Bucharest, Romania, speaking of fishers.
Anyway, nothing personal.
I mean, I'm sure Prince Vegeta is really freaking cool and completely legit, but Romania is a
large fishing community.
It's a haven.
There's no denying that.
I said, it's a haven for fishers.
There's no denying that.
We speak the truth.
I mean, I don't want to knock him, because, you know, this guy could, you know, be legit
and everything, but what's this?
We have someone in Wellington, New England.
Man, crazy.
You know, and I always, you know, people always kind of laugh or kind of tease me or whatever,
because I was always so excited to get emails to the show from all these exotic locations,
exotic to me as an American who is not as well-traveled as I would like to be.
I, it just still, I know what the interweb is.
I know how the interweb works and all the tubes and all the different countries and global
economy, et cetera, et cetera, and no boundaries, but it's, I don't know, maybe it's an age
thing or something, but every once in a while, and it's moments like this where you see where
people are coming from, you get an email from this, this location, you never would have
imagined somebody listening to you, and you just, I don't know, sometimes it's just those
events are what make me step back and go, wow, that's fucked up, you know, that is, that's
insane.
When we got the email from Taiwan, it was sort of like, wow, people are actually listening
in freaking Taiwan?
Don't they have lives?
Don't they have actually shows that don't suck over there?
Nope, they have, they have hackers, they have hacker geeks all over the world.
Yeah.
Well, geek, geek.
Thank God.
Geek, geek, geek, and hacking is one of those universal traits.
It's just, it's there, it's not, you know, being bound by, you know, race, religion,
or whatever.
Thank goodness for that.
Yeah.
All right, let's jump ahead a few episodes now.
This is going to be such a long episode 200 of Binary Revolution Radio, but you know what?
It's going to be epic.
I don't care, let's, we're going to wrap it up, we're going to, there's a lot of good
stories here.
Some of this stuff is new to me.
Some of this stuff I had forgotten about, or some of this stuff I didn't even know about
some of these behind the scenes stories.
So, let's see, here's another, I guess, highlight episode 134, Mark Spencer, the creator of it.
Oh, Mark Spencer coming in, and basically we, I think it was more than Mark Spencer, I think
it was a bunch of guys from, did you, no, was this the one, I forget now.
We had one where Mark Spencer was just on, we had one where basically it was a conference
from Indigium, and we just did the entire radio show from there.
Well, we weren't there, but we called into their bridge line and bridged them in.
But this was, yeah, this was the show where Mark, basically, we came in and we told him,
yeah, talk about something you don't do that isn't directly related to the asterisk or something
that you do do.
And he talked a lot about, yeah, that was his big thing.
That was his, I remember, what shocked me was, it was the same, you know, I remember
using G-O check in the day, and I was sort of like, oh, wow, he wrote that, damn.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize it's not just, you know, he gets pigeonholed as asterisk,
but he's worked on a lot of other stuff as well.
Hey, G-A-M, or pigeon, or whatever the hell they call themselves out.
Game, yeah, nobody realizes that that's him too, game?
Oh, yeah, this is the one where they called in from the Digium conference room.
Yeah.
I wasn't 100% sure.
And actually, I don't, did we do this live?
I forget if we did this live, but you can actually watch it while they were on their official
asterisk webcam.
Yeah, and didn't they play some of the, they had some custom, they played some of the previews
of the voice response system, was that that episode too?
Yes.
Yeah, I remember that one, I definitely remember that episode.
And then the one right after that was the Valentine's Day special.
Now, that one I always found kind of funny.
Okay, I'd like to go on record here and officially apologize to everyone who listened to that episode,
because that episode, I think it went beyond sucking golf balls through garden noises, and
really just went through, you know, black holes sucking universes through quantum filaments.
Well, it was kind of a geek love radio episode as it ended up happening, and Sub-Zero had been
on tech TV talking about some of that stuff, so it was kind of timely at the time.
Maybe in retrospect, it didn't work so well, but all I'm saying is, to me, I was always
laughing at it, because I, maybe it's the perv in me coming out, maybe I've been on 4chan
too long, but I would have used prawn names for that episode on Valentine's Day, I don't know why.
Well, that's because you're ill.
I know, I'm broken, what can I tell you, I need upgrades, I need patches.
What, what, where do you want to go from here, 136?
Oh, 136, now, now, we always talk about how the show ages well, but this is one that kind
of stands out, because we were, back in, you know, February 2006, this happened, like,
I think, just, we talked about this episode, just before, there was this great big patent
battle between RIM and this company called NDP, which essentially owned, like, three obvious
patents, where it was sort of like, yeah, we have a patent on devices that can read email
through a cell phone network, and they were suing RIM, and this was, like, major news
at the time, and what, I mean, basically, the funny thing is, it was major news at the time,
but, is it, who would remember this?
I didn't remember this, like, until I started actually going over the show notes again, like,
I was like, damn, man, we did an entire episode on that?
Man, who even remembers that now?
Yeah, and, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, and it was just one of those things that really kind of stuck out in my mind, where,
yeah, you know, we're always on topic, you know, this is all the old limits of things
age well, and this one, yeah, not so much, kind of.
Yeah, and, you know, that's a good point, and that's something that, also, we had always
been very firm about.
Admittedly, the first handful of episodes, when I was getting my feet wet with the show, we
probably did cover some news topics, more so than I wanted to, but that's one of the
reasons why.
A, is because I've always had a pet peeve about, there's just so many podcasts out
there that read to me.
Look, I can read SlashDod and Reddit and these other news aggregators, et cetera, et cetera.
I can read that stuff on my own, or I'll hear about it from talking to friends.
I don't really want to listen, and this is just my personal opinion, I don't want to
listen to a podcast, basically read to me, or interpret, or tell me the story of something
that, you know, it's A, I've already read about, or if I haven't read about it, I can
read about it easily, and get a little bit more reliable source, I guess.
I don't need you to read to me, and then, you know, it just is not good radio to me.
That's the type of show that I always disliked, and I always swore from, you know, early on
that I didn't want to get pigeonholed into that.
I don't want to do it well.
I don't want to do this, because I know that they won't hold up well over time.
No one's ever wanted to go back and listen to them, and early on, I realized that, and
decided to really, I wanted to emphasize teaching concepts.
That's why we have titles to the show.
We try to keep every show topical.
Choose a topic, do the research, or use the knowledge we have, or get hosts on the show
that have that knowledge, and cover topics.
Topics are timeless.
Fishing is still fishing.
Tunneling is still tunneling.
Pearl is still Pearl.
There's things that are always going to stand up, and they're always going to work, and
they're always going to be somewhat fresh.
And I always try to do that.
You know, we kind of agree with that, but this was, like, such a major story at the time.
Sure.
And I think it actually comes back to prove your point, that it was a huge story at the
time, and nothing happens.
I mean, you know, we're still around.
I think they paid an obscene amount of money, but they were just like, okay, well, how many
zeros?
All right.
Right.
Well, and you know, and we make mistakes, so if it is a story that we think is going to
be big, and we think may be more timely, you know, then it will work out in the long
run.
This one just didn't.
So, you know, in retrospect, hey, hindsight's 20-20, right?
Yeah.
One of your favorites came up shortly thereafter, 138?
138 Pirate Radio.
Now, this was one of those cool ones where I think, our co-host this week was Evil Deshi,
and, oh, God, I don't even know where he is now.
I think he kind of faded away from the scene, unfortunately, but he basically, I think he
IM'd me and said, yeah, you know, I run a pirate radio station.
Oh, no, he e-mailed us and said, I run a pirate radio station, and I want to rebroadcast
your episodes live while it's streaming.
And he said, would you be okay with that?
And I said, you run a pirate radio station?
Yeah.
Fine with me.
Would you like to come on the radio show and talk about it?
He's like, okay.
Yeah, exactly.
And it was just really cool because there's something, I mean, I don't think a lot of people
will, like, even, like, remember this, like, you know, for 50 years.
But, like, I really got into it in, like, the whirling.
I think they actually get into making pirate radio, but the early, like, 90s, even really
before that, the early 90s when I started playing around with it, like, you know, shortwave.
And even, it's still around today, but, like, there used to be, like, this huge scene that
people would run, you know, transmitters out of their basins on, like, shortwave radio
and create these radio stations out there.
And it was a really underground community.
And nowadays, now the Internet's, like, completely, like, perplexed it.
And you're still out there.
And, like, you, I mean, if you listen off the hook, they occasionally talk about stuff.
Currently, it's really big in New York.
And apparently, there's a couple of FM stations in Boston that are literally pirate.
But it was just amazing to me at the time that, A, you know, I think he was younger than me,
this guy was running this radio station out of his bedroom.
And he wanted to actually, A, drew his new show, and, B, wanted to come on and talk about it.
Because it was just something from my childhood that was sort of like, wow, I'm talking to
a real pirate radio broadcaster.
Yeah.
And there's two things to that that are important to point out.
Memories.
What's that?
Memories.
There's two things worth emphasizing in there, too.
One is how we always welcome people who wanted to come in.
You know, we listen to the listeners, you know, when they had feedback for us.
And when they had email, give us topics.
We were glad to put you on the show if you were an authority and you did know the topic at hand
and could, you know, add to it or even teach us about the topic.
I never had any embarrassment or admitting, hey, come on the show.
I don't know anything about that topic.
I'd love to hear it.
Come on and do the show with me.
I have no qualms, no problem saying that.
And I wish a whole lot more people would have done that.
We could have buried it.
I mean, I think we did a great job of mixing hosts quite a bit.
I mean, we have so many different people.
But that's the first thing about that.
The second is that, yeah, there were actually quite a few radio stations that would restream our show
and broadcast it over real, actual AM, FM radio, college stations, quite a few stations, believe it or not.
I bet there were probably upwards of maybe ten stations over the years that aired it.
Now, the fact that his was live, my immediate thing is, well, he's fucked because we say fuck a lot.
But it's pirate radio, so it really doesn't have a factor for him.
A lot of the other people, the problem with rebroadcasting it was, well, yeah, our language sometimes.
And, again, we went through the little try to clean it up, and that was one of the motivations for it.
But, yeah, that didn't work.
I believe one of the college radio stations actually went in, and a guy, like, delayed us about, like, a week or two
while he went in and edited us all the nasty bits out.
Yeah, he actually put in the bleep.
Which was, like, good for him, man.
He was just, like, crazy.
That was cool.
Go ahead.
I said that was cool.
That was very cool.
Yeah, that was very cool.
And just, like, that took, like, an extreme amount of dedication.
I don't know who he is.
I don't know what his name is.
I don't even know what the radio station is, but props to him.
Yeah.
You know, and even though I'm not putting a time limit on this final episode of the show,
we've got to speed up a little bit, man.
We've been doing this for an hour already.
Yeah, tell me about it.
Crazy, huh?
So many memories and so much to talk about.
Really.
This is your life.
Nobody here.
This is your memory.
We're kidding about that, man.
Holy.
Man, this is a little.
I think something that people, like, actually, we'll talk about this in a couple episodes,
because it's actually related to something that happened in, like, a couple of episodes.
All right.
141 was another fun episode for me.
It was something that I completely didn't know about, and Dr. Zygmunt came in and talked
about bioinformatics, because he's actually a biology geek.
He was a crazy expert on this, and I was just going, wow, because he knew all this stuff
on it, and he just hit it right out of the park.
And apparently, he's gone on and done a lot more research on this topic.
Yeah.
You know, the thing about this is, if your area of interest is really doing research on
really breaking technology and new, untouched experimentation and stuff like that, bioinformatics
is definitely a wide open field and lots of cool and interesting stuff.
And I know, yeah, he's gone on and done a lot of study in that.
And actually, you know what?
I don't want to skip.
There's actually one there that I wanted to bring up, 139, episode 139, because we had
a new co-host on there, DeBeeve.
Oh, Jim, I completely skipped that episode.
Yeah.
Co-authored of the book Hacking Asterisk with some other schmuck.
Asterisk Hacking.
Yeah.
Oh, Asterisk Hacking, but some other schmuck on there, I don't remember that guy, but
DeBeeve.
Some of those other Asterisk losers.
Yeah.
You know, those guys, what are you going to do?
Asterisk Hacking from Singres, right?
Yeah.
The Asterisk Hacking, well, technically it's not Singres anymore.
It's L-S-E-V-I-E-R.
What?
It's S-E-V-I-E-R.
They got bought over.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Well, it happened while we were writing the book.
I dropped my docs now.
While the book was being written.
It was, it was, DeBeeve and I came in and wrote the book.
And it's a good book, so pick it up.
It should be available at your local mega bookseller there, or it can be available on
Amazon.com.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is called Giving Your Co-Host a Plug.
Fuck yeah.
Now, back on to episode 142.
Is this the one you were talking about?
Because I think this is the worst show title ever.
Is this the one you think is your favorite?
Oh, actually, no.
We're not done with 139 yet.
Oh, okay.
What, what, what, 139 actually is interesting for me because it was something that I always
played around with.
It was about honeypots.
And we talked about, like, Honeybee and user-mode Linux and running honeypots with VMware.
And the interesting part now is I really didn't, I played with this while I was, you know,
just a little hobby thing.
And now my job actually is currently one of my major projects in it.
And I got to give credit where credit is due.
I mean, this is something that people always talk about where, you know, oh, you know,
you learn these things on Big Red Radio and, you know, they're fun, but you never actually
have any real world application to it.
This is something that had a real world application with it.
And, you know, hey, it could help me get my job because they were talking about it.
And I was like, oh, yeah, I know all that stuff.
And sure, I mean, I got involved with it before the episode even, you know, I got it way before
the episode started.
But, you know, you never know, that could happen to you.
You could have learned something on BINREV and you could actually turn it into something
that's going to have a real world, you know, bring back, getting to you, being flown, you know,
maybe something getting dropped in your offshore Cayman Islands.
It's not too much.
Yep.
No, I mean, you know, I really hope that happens.
I really, that was the goal.
I want people to learn.
Even if you don't necessarily apply it to a job or you used to get a job or anything,
at least expand your knowledge on a lot of these subjects and make you a little bit more
knowledgeable from the Department of Redundancy Department.
about the topics at hand.
So, and I can't believe we never actually did an episode on Honeypots before that.
It took us 139 episodes.
You're not neat like me.
I guess.
Yeah, totally.
It took two published authors to come up with that one.
This was when the book was just a glimmer in our eye.
Yeah, okay.
This was like one of the first times I actually talked to B, like, actually, like, you know,
talked to him before the episode.
And that was actually, and that's what kind of came from it.
It goes, you know, Beave knows the shit.
Beave has shouts to Beave.
We're not doing shouts yet, but still, whatever.
Getting on to 142.
Now, you don't like this.
I mean, it basically describes what the job is.
But it's so low ground.
It's like sewer repair.
Oh, it's just so lowest common denominator, even more so than I, and I'm not one to talk.
But even for me, it just, I don't know.
It doesn't, it's not polite conversation.
Man, man, man.
We don't have polite conversation.
I know, I know, but it just feels weird to say it.
Because some people don't get that, and you have to explain to them the relevance of the term.
Well, I mean, because it's something that, I mean, from the people that I've told it to
who actually know what is involved, they've always been very, yeah, that's what it is, really.
Well, why don't you explain the term?
Go ahead.
I said, why don't you explain the term, then?
Yeah, yeah, just mopping is a term that I came up with to basically describe the process.
You know, you have your aunt coming into your thing, carrying her computer under her arm,
and you're like, oh, shit.
But it's infected, you know, she's like, it's snow.
And it's, sure enough, you boot it up.
Yeah, yeah, you look at it, and it's like, you know, bonzy buddy, or some other stuff.
You know, the naked dancing woman on the bottom of your screen.
Gator.
Gator, don't forget Gator.
Oh, I can't forget Gator.
Gator's the Zango.
I think there's another one.
But it's something like, you know, spyware, malware, viruses.
Toolbars.
Basically, you're the person who, well, you don't want to delete that.
But you're the person who basically has to go in and fix everything.
And that's what it is.
I mean, you get all this little crap all shoved into the corners of the computer that doesn't want to come out.
And it's giz mopping.
That's what it is.
It's basically you going in there with a mop and cleaning up all the gums that you don't want to.
But what is actual giz mopping?
Some people don't know.
You've got to use that in polite conversation.
And your aunt who comes in.
Yeah, I don't know how to use that in polite conversation.
It's not a polite word.
But spin rev radio isn't polite.
If you don't know what giz mopping is, go red clerks.
Oh, man.
I'm not going to let you off of that.
Explain giz mopping to our audience, Black Ratchet.
No, no.
I'm not going to explain that to you.
You can go do that.
You're the sicker bird.
You came up with a title.
If you can't man up now and explain it.
Okay, okay.
Look at this way.
If you have to clean.
Look at this way.
Giz mopping.
If you know what giz is, just look into something where you have to clean up someone else's.
Be it in a, you know, any place you could possibly think of.
Oh, my gosh.
I think we have reached the sickest of the sick.
See, that's why I'm clean.
Oh, yeah, man.
And I'm going to make you say it.
That was funny.
Holy shit.
Oh, no.
Hold on.
I've got to stop laughing or I can't continue the show.
Screw you guys.
I'm going home.
No, actually, 144 is another episode I want to say.
You know, Stank is useless because he's laughing.
144 is one I want to talk about.
I had something up, and for unknown reasons, Strong did not record an episode.
So I basically came on on a Wednesday and posted it to the members' forum saying,
I don't know what the hell happened.
There's no episode.
And Droops came in and saved the freaking day by recording an episode, like, out of nowhere.
I think I, like, posted it in the morning.
And by the evening, he's like, yeah, I have an episode.
How do I upload it?
And that's just crazy.
And, you know, people think and wonder, like, you know, oh, man, I can run a radio show.
If I'm sure it's easy, just go in there and talk.
No.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Try sitting in a room with a microphone and trying to be entertaining and informative for an hour and a half every week.
By yourself.
An hour and a half.
And by yourself.
He did that episode solo.
Oh, he did that episode solo, which I never did.
I mean, you did a couple of solo episodes.
That's something I never even tried because I would, man, I knew, you know, we've done our fair share of clunkers when I did the episodes.
But, oh, man, I couldn't even picture doing it all by myself.
And even with the hour and a half, yeah, okay, it's an hour and a half of actually you talking to the radio.
But that's more like two hours once you figure in, you know, you just having to warm up and maybe talk to your guest and go over the show notes.
Probably another half an hour doing the actual writing of the show notes themselves.
Another, you know, half hour to an hour post-production.
And plus you have to find out this.
You have to come up with an idea every week, which was one of the things that I literally, I sucked at.
I could not.
That's why you had all these stupid filler shows and clunkers because it was just like.
Yeah, they, you know, there's the occasional cop-out show that we would wrap in there.
But, and we could do those flying by the seat of our pants.
And that happened quite a bit, you know, the live shows could jump to mind.
Or you just wing it.
Whatever happens to be going on, you just kind of make it up as you go along.
Or you have a little bit of a generic, you know what recent news is going on.
You may know topics that have been discussed in the forums or follow-up emails from previous that you want to go into.
But to actually sit down with a prepared topic ahead of time, I mean, every episode, every week that we did that,
where we actually did have a planned episode, was easily, easily a minimum of five-plus hours of work to put out an episode of BinRev Radio.
I mean, I'm certain we probably averaged that.
Even with the cop-out episodes or the clunkers, as Ratchet calls them, mixed in,
we still probably averaged four to five hours of preparation and recording and everything of the show each year.
So, it definitely was not easy.
It was literally, I mean, at the minimum, if you just want to do something fine by the seat of your pants,
it's probably at least three hours of work to get an hour and a half of that episode in.
Right.
I mean, and that's with no planning, you know, just you talking about jizz-mobbing if you want.
Well, and...
And there was this one time where...
The other thing is, at this point in time, we still had our perfect attendance record going, you know.
We still had done weekly shows every single week.
Now, admittedly...
More or less.
I mean, there was a couple of times where we did live episodes, and Strom was like,
I'll edit it, and then he never edited it, and I think it was a good...
Probably about a month where the archives weren't updated, and a good majority of the people got their stuff through the archives.
I mean, we streamed live every week, but, you know, too bad for you folks.
Yeah, and it's...
So, while we produced something every week, it was just one of those things where it was...
We never actually, you know, got it out to the masses, I guess.
Well, yeah, we had a streaming issue that would happen once in a while,
but we'd still put it up on a podcast right away, and that's what happened with this one.
So, but I still...
We still...
Even if we missed something like that, we would put it out right away.
Or, worst case scenario...
And this happened...
I think we're going to talk about a few of these coming up.
Worst case scenario, we'd miss a week, and I still was so insistent that we had to keep that record going with the show count and show numbers
that if we missed a week, I would make it my mission to do two episodes that following week to make up for it.
Some back-to-back to keep that record numbers.
And, oh, gosh, that was hard because, again, the time that goes into each episode, double that.
You're talking about 12 hours at this point.
In a matter of a weekend, and it's just...
It was rough.
And, again, time was already at a premium because of real-life stuff going on in both of our lives.
And, you know, the reason that you had taken over the show for season three, and there were numerous, was...
You know, the biggest was I had also gotten a new job and moved and packed up my whole life.
So I wasn't even thinking about it, and that's why, you know, I just thought it was over at the end of season two.
But, you know, I was willing to come back and do it, but I needed a break.
You know, I also had that little, I don't know, meltdown or whatever I had where I was just kind of done with the whole community
and that whole fallout and everything that I went through, and I just needed a break.
I needed to get away.
So, you know, it's a lot of work.
That's all I'm saying.
Yeah.
145.
Another IRC episode, 145, which, again...
No, 145.
Well, you keep on saying we did all these IRC episodes.
I think, you know, Zygmunt did these three episodes on IRC explaining...
He did a very good...
I mean, Zygmunt always did really good topics.
He usually hit them right out of the park.
And, I mean, he did like...
We wanted to do one IRC episode because we just set up our own IRC server after being kicked off from Freenode.
But, anyway...
Well, no, wait.
Actually, let's stop.
There's a back story there that's worth talking about.
The Freenode...
See, when we first started on Freenode...
Well, we first started IRC on Freenode.
We didn't want to have to deal with setting up our own server and maintaining it.
And a lot of hosting companies won't allow that anyway.
So, we decided to use Freenode.
There was already somewhat of a community built onto there.
So, we figured we'd jump on there as well.
Well, as it turns out...
I guess the short version of the story is...
We're not very well liked sometimes.
There are some people who don't like...
Look at this way.
This was right around the time...
And for those of you who know IRC, you'll understand this command.
DCC send start key logger 0, 0, 0.
And what essentially this would do is you had...
If it is you don't know IRC, if you had a badly configured firewall or, like, one of these stupid blue cheapo firewalls you run on your computer,
it would disconnect your IRC session.
Now, I will admit, on Pound Bin Rep, myself included, we had a lot of fun with this by just...
And the amusing part was, every time we'd start talking about it, we'd just, like, start...
Even if we were just, like, talking about it, it's like, oh, yeah, whenever you sent this command, we'd type it out, unfortunately, stupidly, and...
Not realizing it was kicking somebody off.
Not realizing what's going to happen, which we'll talk about in a few seconds.
We'd just start talking about it.
And all of a sudden, we noticed, like, you know, people would just start dropping when we'd start talking about it.
And we're like, oh, crap, it's actually causing a problem on them.
We should start talking about that.
You know, it's on Pound Bin Rep.
We still run a very lax channel where, you know, as long as you don't completely ruin the fun for everyone,
we'll let you get away with a certain amount.
However, a couple of our users, and they know who they are, decided, oh, geez, let's go randomly sign on to other Freenode channels.
It's on this command.
Yeah, they didn't like that.
And I think we were...
I was sitting with my wife, then fiance, one Saturday night watching TV, and I just...
My phone's in the other room, and I had my sidekick at this point, and that was always signed on the name.
And then I just hear, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, a ton of messages.
And I'm going, whatever, see, I'll get to them later.
I get to my computer, I look at all my messages, because I'm signed into both places at the same time.
So I'm like, you need to get into the IRC channel, you need to get in.
And I go, I walk in, and I see, you know, this channel has been disbanded by Freenode Management.
And I find, I scroll back up in the log, and the administrator of...
Lilo.
Lilo, God rest his soul.
Um, he, um, basically came in and said, yeah, you guys have been causing too much trouble, you need to get the fuck out.
Well, and of course, he, and, you know, with respect to him, he didn't realize, we weren't causing the trouble.
But a few users, a few bad eggs...
Sorry, go ahead.
No, a few bad eggs came in, and were harassing other channels with this, what they thought was funny.
And they were also idling in bin rep.
Truth be told, I don't think it was any of our regular IRC users.
I think it was a couple of them.
A couple of them, yes.
However, the problem is, is that apparently we attracted an unattractive element who did not know any of our...
Um, and they were also attacking us, but using FreeNode's server, so they also didn't like that.
Right.
That was the first problem, and we actually had talked to him before about it, because I think it was...
I don't even know who it was, to be honest with you.
It was some of those little trolling groups that decided to pick on us.
Um, and that was the first problem with us, and he talked to us, and I, you know, I apologize for you, and I'm trying to explain.
We had nothing to do with this.
We did not educate anything with them, as far as I knew.
I don't know if someone else did.
No, and I talked to Lilo on the phone.
I actually called him, and we talked about it, and he was a very fair, understanding guy and everything,
and he was just doing what he thought was best for FreeNode and for the server, so I certainly don't blame him for that.
No, no, very much so. I can't blame him at all for what he did.
So he was very good.
But, um, yeah, that's when we set up IRC.inRev.net, and we actually did, like, two episodes on how to set up your own IRC server with Dr. Zegman.
Yeah.
Ah, and that's the story of how we got kicked off of yet another network.
And that's how we got kicked off of FreeNode.
All by...
It could have been avoided if those people would have just gone out there and listened to the
how to not be a moron on the interweb episode.
Ah, I think it would be one of those times where they could listen all they want and still not have it registered.
Once a loser, always a loser.
Mm-hmm.
One forty-seven.
Yeah, one forty-seven.
And God's try, umphent return.
Yeah, I, and you know, that was the reason I came back was you, my friend.
That was about the time when you decided to make it official, tie the knot, ball and chain, whatever, uh, cliched, uh, thing you want to call it there, but...
Yeah.
...kind of a big life-changing event, so I certainly wasn't about to make you try to do a radio show on your honeymoon or any of that stuff.
So, yeah.
Well, that's when one forty-eight would have been during my honeymoon, and I don't think that would have flown very well.
Yeah, that would not have, yeah, that would have not gone over well at all.
Could have been great radio, though, but I'm just saying, I'm just throwing that out there.
Um, so, yeah, I came back in, and you and I did that episode together, and then you were off, so...
I'm out of here, and actually, I'm very sad to say, I never actually came back.
This is my first episode that I'm back on.
Yeah, wow, really?
I guess, you know, I mean, you know, a lot of people say, oh, you lose all kinds of stuff, but it takes up a good portion of your time when you're...
Yeah, wow.
...and I'm, quite frankly, hey, I don't care.
No, I think you were on it.
I don't enjoy it.
I think you were on a couple more after that.
I...
I don't think so, was it?
I don't know for sure, but I bet you were, but...
But anyway, the other thing is, like, I had taken off this long hiatus and everything, and I came back somewhat re-energized, and, you know, 147 was a good episode back, and doing the show with you after a long time was fun and all.
But, I think it may surprise a lot of people to hear this, but if I had to pick my very favorite episode, it would be 148.
You know, I was looking through all these show notes and going back and reminiscing and everything, and I thought to myself, like, what if I had to pick one show to represent BinRev Radio that I thought was the best show, most entertaining, had the most educational value that I...
And I have to say it was 148 per month.
Just mopping episode.
No, no, no, no, just mopping.
Oh, what?
148, you know, that was a show with Decius, who had been on the show with me before, who was a great co-host, smart guy, good friend, and the topic was a, you know, it's a dangerous topic.
This show could have easily been a huge failure, and the topic of the show was Rainbow Tables.
Now, Rainbow Tables was a fairly hot topic at the time, not to be confused with that store in the mall, but it was a hot topic at the time.
But Rainbow Tables in and of themselves were, it's not really a difficult concept, these big tables and predetermined so that you could pass, crack passwords faster with them because all the work had already been done ahead of time.
The topic itself was not that in-depth, and I didn't want to do that as a main topic because, frankly, that was, you know, five to ten minutes.
I just, I didn't think that was worth a full show.
Five to ten minutes, and that was it.
The only way that I could think about doing it would be if we actually explained the how and why and the fundamental design and the reason that Rainbow Tables worked.
Anybody can download an app, and we could have done a show saying, oh, yeah, download Rainbow Crack or whatever the case may be and run it against you.
I definitely didn't want to do that because, again, that falls under go out and read a fact or hit a web page or something like that and figure that out on your own.
I wanted to understand how and why it worked, and I wanted people to understand the fundamentals behind it.
And I went out and did some research on it just because, once again, I'm a hacker, and I do a lot of research because I find this stuff interesting anyway.
I'll be frank that the math behind this was just outside of my scope, you know, and I like to think I'm pretty good at math, you know.
I've had all the calculus, differential equations, et cetera, et cetera, and this was a little tricky.
So I thought to myself, you know, who could I go and have on the show that could really fill in a lot of this stuff?
And I found my way back to Decius, and I got him on the phone, and I talked to him about the ideas and, you know, wanting to do the topic but the limitations and the constraints I wanted to put around it.
And he knew it.
He was really good at this and started talking about the details, and he knew it.
And, you know, next thing we know, we've recorded this incredible show where it's one of the ones where I probably learned more on this episode of the show than any show that I've ever done in the history of BinRev Radio.
Before that and since that.
That show, to me, I learned more about it.
And others, I hope others got something out of it as well.
And, you know, Tom and I, and I'm not dropping docs there, Decius and I were on the phone for like two hours before that show was recorded talking about it, you know, and saying, oh, how cool is it?
Well, I wonder what happens if you do this, and I wonder if we can make it better by doing that, and actually discussing and having a good, you know, conversation before we even started recording the show.
And then even after the show was over with, so, I don't know, that was, that to me was probably, no, it definitely was my favorite episode content, you know, all around show that I think we've ever done.
So, I don't know if others got as much out of it as I did, but if you asked me to pick one, that would be my one.
Mm-hmm.
That was a good episode.
I enjoyed that one.
I wasn't on it, but I enjoyed it.
And actually, you were right.
I did come back for another couple episodes, but I'll be saying I'm just going to see you now.
Yeah, exactly.
And 149 was another cool episode in my book.
It was digital forensics, which I thought it is.
Oh, yeah.
And, you know, like, Taviz and I had been trying to work out to get him on the show, so we came on and did digital forensics,
because he had some experience with some tools and stuff, where actually a place that he and I, we both worked for a little while.
So, he had some information on that.
And he's a regular in IRC.
A lot of people knew Taviz from IRC, so, you know, it was only a matter of time before we had him on the show.
So, IRC, of course, if you don't know, our IRC channel is still hopping and got lots of users on there active, sometimes more than others, but IRC.binrev.net.
Go check it out.
Pound the Binrev is the main channel, the official channel.
It's a little bit like the Wild West out there.
Don't get offended easily.
Don't get your feathers ruffled or anything.
And if you wander outside of Pound Binrev into some of the other channels, yeah, you're on your own there.
You're not going to get a whole lot of sympathy.
Hey, stop by in the morning.
You'll get your daily dose of news and commentary from me, Black Ratchet.
Oh, great.
And actually, along with friends, you know, long time, we should have gotten them on the show before, is 151 with Right Coast.
You know, Right Coast and I, from the BR407 meeting here in Orlando, we'd been talking about old school computing, kind of some retro nostalgia episodes.
So he and I did that episode talking about some old school stuff.
For those of us out there, the old folks, the ones going senile, the gray-haired, the old coots like me, that was a fun episode.
And, again, kind of continuing with that theme, was 152, regular forum member and future forum admin, as it were, and future DDP member, Seal, came on 152
and talked about his piracy documentary that he just released very successfully, I might add.
Got lots of attention to that.
Came out and talked a lot about not only the documentary, it wasn't just a big plug episode, but talking about piracy and several other topics as well.
Of course, email and all the other stuff we go through.
So that was another good episode.
So definitely enjoyed that one.
154.
Oh, this was a cop-out episode to the extreme.
Speaking of cop-outs, yeah.
Yeah, Sam couldn't do an episode, and I couldn't figure out what topic to do, because, hey, I was married and I was doing other things.
Like what, Ratchet?
What other things do married people do?
Please tell me.
Oh, I was really doing my job with your mom and man.
Oh, no.
I'm not even going there.
So what I did is I...
Is your aim off?
Just saying.
Yeah, we're not going to talk about it.
So anyway, right before this episode, there was a small town in Minnesota called Lewina.
Now, any phone freak knows what Lewina in Minnesota is.
But for those of you who don't know, as of 99% of you, Lewina was one of the last places...
Well, okay, it was the last place in the continental United States that had a 2,600-controlled telephone trunk.
And now, I'm sure 2,600 people actually kind of know what that is.
Basically, it was the last trunk in the continental United States that you could blue box off of.
Now, the administrator was very cool over there.
He had a great guy.
Essentially, I think...
Oh, God.
This was like back in like 2004.
It was me.
It was...
I don't know what he goes by himself now.
They either blake-ups or hold the phone.
And...
Oh, crap.
Who else was on the phone?
Cabot.
And we essentially just said, hey, let's call this guy up.
And he was...
Basically, we called up the telephone company.
And the telephone company was this guy, and it was his home phone.
And we basically just said, hey, yeah, we're just curious.
This is...
You know, we just...
I asked him my question, and he went on, and we talked about phones for like an hour and a half.
He is really cool.
And he also went to asterisk, and what he did was essentially set up this giant voicemail box
that people could both listen to and leave messages on through the 2,600-controlled trunk.
And a lot of phone freaks on there.
I mean, Captain Crunch was on there.
Bill from New York.
I think even Evan Burbell was on there.
And along with a lot of other, you know, bell heads, as they call themselves,
which are people who are employed by the bell system back in the day.
And essentially, I downloaded it, and he posted the file online once it was closed off.
I think it shut off sometime early June 2006, I think.
I don't know.
And basically, I just made an episode out of it.
And it's a very...
I mean, it's...
I don't know how people...
I don't even know how people reacted to it.
But it was just...
It's fun to listen to, and it gives you, like, a lot of people were on there who were...
geek names back in the day.
Right.
And it's definitely a part of history.
It's definitely a part of hacking, freaking history.
And it's definitely a recording that needs to be kept for posterity and definitely should
be around on websites here and there.
It just wasn't an episode of BinRev Radio.
That's all.
And there were a couple of new school phone freaks on there.
Yeah, it definitely wasn't our first choice.
And I don't know.
Was that, like, the beginning of the end?
I mean, is that where we both realized that we had too much stuff going on with our lives?
I think I've realized that I had too much stuff going on with my lives.
You were still with your...
You were still blindly going ahead.
Well, I...
I guess.
Yeah, I guess I was still fresh back rejoining after taking over for you.
And I still thought maybe I could pull it off again.
Um, but I kind of...
I mean, that was really, in retrospect, looking back now, I think that was the beginning of
the end.
Um, I...
It's...
I could not do it by myself anymore.
I could not be the one to do a weekly show anymore and needed to split it up with other
people and...
Which was great because we did get a lot of new voices, a lot of different people doing
the shows, which was awesome.
But it's just, again, hard to do a weekly show and people don't understand and realize
that.
And once they tried it and came in and started it, a lot of people realized what they had
gotten into and they realized that it was more difficult than they thought.
So...
Mm-hmm.
Probably the beginning of the end.
Um, 156, actually.
And this was the last episode of season four...
Or season three, excuse me.
And...
Yes.
And I kind of decided at that point, you know what, I'm getting back into it kind of gung-ho
here and I'm going to go back and get some of my favorite guests and some of my favorite
episodes and get some of those people back on the show again.
And to that end, I had Ilanka back on the show to talk about Wikipedia, which is a topic
that she was very much into at the time, something that she loved.
Um, and again, kind of that vein of getting cool people back on the show, or not that
there weren't cool people on the show, don't get me wrong, but bringing back some of my particular
favorites and some people I hadn't spoken to or had on in a while.
And there is actually a funny, I don't know if I say funny backstory right here, but there
was a lot of fallout from this episode, believe it or not.
Um, right after this show, we talked about Wikipedia and stuff like that and, you know, somebody
had created an entry out on Wikipedia for Stank Dog and I mentioned how awkward it was and
weird and, you know, how I felt, I didn't want to touch it because I felt like that was
inappropriate, editing your own entry and yada, yada, yada.
So, anyway, we talked about that along with a lot of other topics in Wikipedia, some good,
some bad, but I guess people who either, or probably both, didn't like the negative comments
about Wikipedia, which actually we were pretty positive about it overall.
Probably more to the point, people who didn't like me, personally, decided that they would
come out there and, and all the haters attacked in full force, editing my entries and, uh, making
changes, defacements, et cetera, et cetera.
Which, you know, to that point, that's all well and good, messing with my entry.
But, they also went out of their way to mess with the entries of Ilanka and of Decius and
of Acidus and of any, everybody else who'd been on the show, you know, going out there
and, and just being a complete moron on the internet.
Again, they missed that episode, apparently.
Um, I'm sure these people were not savable, though, I'm pretty sure, but, you know, it
was one of those things that, the reason, one of the reasons I left the scene and I, the
kind of the meltdown I alluded to earlier, joked about, was, was, was stuff like this.
It's like, I don't mind, you know, you can mess up my entry, I don't care, I'm nobody,
big deal, delete it, joke, that's all well and good.
Annoying, but fine, knock yourselves out.
If you want to come at me, come at me, you know, but leave everybody else out of it.
You know, if you got beef with me, ball up and come to me, you know, don't be a big stinky
pussy and go attacking other people by association that, you know, probably don't agree with a
lot of the stuff I say.
If you have a problem with me, come to me, you know, I'll man up and we'll have it out
one way or the other, you know, we'll talk about it like adults, we'll yell at each other
like kids, or I'll knock you the fuck out like a grown man, whatever, just come to me.
But don't go to other people and mess with them, that's, that's just uncalled for, childish,
just assholery.
I think I made that word up on an episode of the show one time.
It's just assholery and it, it's just kind of ridiculous.
And you know what, it's actually happening again right now, there's some fucktart out
there right now, as we're recording episode 200, who has, who went out and wrote all this
crap about how terrible I am and how dare I have a Wikipedia entry and not him and marked
me for deletion and stuff like that.
Now the vote for deletion failed, I guess is the proper word.
They decided to keep it because of a pathetic vote of three to one.
I had three people stand up in my defense against the guy, so it kept the thing out there, which
was a little disappointing, but since he lost, since he lost his fight, or lost his request
to delete me, he's decided, okay, what he's going to do now is, and he, and he pretty much
admits this out in his, in his comments, but there's, there's no Wikipedia police, nobody
can stop, you know, that's the, that's the failure of Wikipedia, unfortunately, is its
greatest success.
Well, okay, let's not get into that.
Well, well, hold on, we, we can get into that.
Let me, let me finish this and then we'll come back to that because that's certainly,
the, the great success of Wikipedia is the great failure of Wikipedia, but yeah, we'll
come back to that in a second, but there's nobody to stop one asshole from going out there
and being a complete dick.
There, there isn't, and that's basically what's going on with this.
There's, you know, he, basically what this guy is doing now is going out there and trimming
back everything out of the entry, which was already, had been graded and people had put
work into putting it up there, which I certainly appreciate.
You know, it doesn't hurt my feelings if it does get deleted, but I appreciate that someone
put it out there and respected it enough to, to treat it well.
This guy has come along and since it didn't get deleted, now he's got his panties in a
bunch and he's deleting chunks of it that he says are inappropriate and don't fit and
shouldn't be on there.
And he's even rechanged, he's changed it now so that the entry isn't under thank dog.
It's under my real name, which certainly is not a big secret, but has moved it over to
my real name.
Well, no, my real name, I'm not notable, you know, why would you do that?
And his goal, obviously, is to cut it out until there's nothing left and then mark it
for deletion again, which he stated in his, that he's going to do that.
And there's nothing that anybody can really do about that.
There's, hell, there was only three people that were even willing to stand up and vote
to keep the entry in the first place.
So, you know, that's the kind of stuff that bothered me when I stepped out of the scene
the first time.
It's like, there's bucktards out there in the world, there always will be, and I realize
this, there's no, you know, there's nothing you can really do about it.
But what's frustrating to me is when no one stands up for the rest of us.
You know, that's the stuff that frustrates me.
So my entry is probably going to end up getting trimmed out and deleted and marked for deletion
and voted against and all that kind of stuff.
And, you know, that's, that's fine.
That's all well and good.
But the person's, the same person has also gone out there and questioned Alonka.
I mean, if anybody's to claim she's not notable or qualified and going out and attacking other
people, it's like, you know, come to me, come to me, deal with me.
Man, who is this asshole?
I don't know.
I know, but I'm not, I've already gotten, dropped, gotten his docks on Wikipedia.
Let's go drop some ducks here.
Your name is PQBF.
I wasn't going to go there, but, you know.
Oh, I mean, we're going out with a bang.
Well, it's, yeah, I guess, why not?
The guy's a cock tart.
I don't know what to say about it.
Actually, the thing is, I went out.
Cryptography.
Yeah, I went out and he drops his docks on there, too.
But I went out and did some research on the guy and looked him up.
The thing is, he actually seems to be a pretty bright guy.
That's the sad thing.
We've had people in IRC, which we won't mention by name either, but we've had people in the
past in the forums and IRC that are actually pretty smart people.
If they would just get their cock out of their ass.
Okay.
If this also comes back, and I guess maybe you were disagreeing with me, or I don't know
if we're going to go into a debate about this, but the whole Wikipedia, I'm sorry, I'm an
inclusionist.
And I just...
Exactly.
And he's a deletionist, and it's very clear.
These are bits and bytes.
I don't think anything...
I mean, obviously, there are certain exceptions.
Not every random Joe Schmo should be out there.
And maybe I am a random Joe Schmo and don't deserve to be out there.
But these are bits.
These are bits and bytes.
These are a little bit of text and data.
You know?
And it's like, I think he made the statement out there of how, you know, I'm not going to
be notable in 10 years.
No one's going to know who I am, which is probably true.
But, A, that's kind of rude to throw...
I didn't ask you to be roasted, you know?
I don't deserve to be attacked for no damn good reason.
That's kind of rude to say out of the blue for somebody, you know?
Be a little bit more respectful, I guess, when you post that kind of stuff.
I didn't ask to be flamed by this guy, so fuck him.
But, um, not only that, I mean, he also goes on and he drops kind of...
If you read between the lines, he says, you know, I've presented that black hat and I
don't have an entry.
Well, sucks to be you.
I don't know what to tell you, you know?
Apparently no one likes yourself.
It's a whole thing about deletionist versus inclusionist and he believes...
You know, it's like, I don't understand the mindset.
The time that you're spending cutting other people down, insulting me, without provocation,
I don't know this guy from Adam, I've never seen or heard him before.
The time that you're spending cutting me down and insulting me and tearing down this
and removing information, you could have gone in and created a bunch of other entries
out there that are missing.
Create your own if it's needed out there, I guess.
Or, he says, you know, he compares a bunch of other people that don't have entries.
Well, that doesn't justify deleting.
That justifies you adding those other entries instead of going out and deleting stuff.
You know, I may not be...
In ten years from now, I may be a complete kook.
I most certainly probably will be.
You know, but what if somebody...
Wait, you are now?
Well, yes, I am.
But what if somebody ten years from now is doing a report for school on the biggest internet
kooks of 2007?
You know, what if somebody's doing, you know, the fucktard roll call of 2005 or something
like that, and this guy's stank off?
If people like these deletionists get away with that, that information's gone forever.
And when it's...
You know, it's not like it's a printed encyclopedia.
The whole point is...
You know what?
Fuck it.
I'm ending this topic because this show is already horribly long, and I'm ranting.
Oh, let's just look on the bright side.
We got you in one season, only an hour and 37 minutes.
Exactly.
An hour and 36 and 15, and we still got another season to go.
Well, let's pick a...
Do we want to plow through these, or do we want to actually start...
Do we just want to try to plow through them, or should we actually try to give them the
attention they deserve?
Let's give them what they deserve, but I think we can go through these quicker, a little bit
quicker.
Well, 158...
158 was the first.
We had the...
157.
I'm sorry, not 158, 157.
Right.
This was all of us at Hook 6, which was really cool.
Right.
It was basically, it was me, Naz, you, not theory, MC Funwa, which was our special guest.
Right.
Our special co-host, I guess.
Who else was there?
Well, you know what?
Like, everybody got a little bit of time.
I tried to get everybody on the show.
The thing about it is, I think I described it and said we did this Laverne and Shirley
style that we recorded it in front of a live studio audience.
Well, I mean, I'm not trying to knock you, but it was like mostly you doing the talking,
and I think for me, I think mostly what I do is I just made some nice comments, which
I do very well.
I like that.
Well, you know, and the problem, the reason for that is because we were completely unprepared.
Let's be honest.
This was just completely winged.
Yeah, we, you know, out of all the jokes and all the show novels that I write, and my
God, you should see the one for episode 200.
But for all the show novels that I've written over the years, here we come going in with
the first episode of season four with nothing.
And I mean nothing.
I had no clue what we were going to talk about.
I didn't, I went just before the show and said, hey, Ratchet, can you come up on stage?
You know, we didn't have anything.
We knew we were going to do this, but we just didn't know.
We were like, well, we don't know who's going to be there, or if people are going to show
up, or, and, and, I mean, we did like, I think we did about half of the room, and we
were doing, I think the interesting part is, is despite, you know, we were going up against
one of, like, one of their, one of the hoax, major, major events, they were really pushing
it.
Was, what, was this like the Hacker Comedians or something?
I think so, but I think we were getting, we were listening through the wall, like every
once in a while we'd hear a laugh, but we were getting, we were generating a whole lot
more laughs than they were.
Yeah, well, the funny part is, is people started trickling in from the other thing.
It was sort of, and like, I was asking them, oh, how was that?
That sucked.
I'm like, oh, and we didn't.
Okay, well, I guess it's a good thing.
It's good that we got lazy and aired that for the first, for the episode of When We
Got Back.
Mm-hmm.
And actually, it was, it was really cool because for me, this was the first time I heard the
Deadly Halon story.
I had, I always had the sound clip of the Deadly Halon.
I had no idea what the hell the story was about.
Yeah.
And I got to say, that was, that was one of your consequences.
Yeah.
If you haven't heard the Deadly Halon story, I don't know what the original episode was,
but listen to episode 158.
Yeah, it was 157.
Oh, 157.
Man, I'm not going to want to see it.
I need to scroll down on my show notes.
The original was probably the best.
I don't remember.
But, yeah, it's always a fun story, and it's just, well, and again, it goes back, this was
our, unfortunately, a bad time to have a cop-out episode.
We weren't prepared.
We didn't have the topic.
It was, the only thing that was slightly prepared is that we did get MC Frontalot.
We were planning to have him on the show, and I feel really bad that, you know, not only
did I slight you guys by just going off ranting, because I didn't know what to talk about,
so I was just BSing my way along.
You know, I couldn't be able to, you could have jumped in any time and just knocked me
down.
I would have probably yielded gladly to catch my breath.
I remember sweating horribly.
I mean, I was getting knocked up.
What makes you think we knew what the fuck we were doing?
Well, I was running all over stage.
I was so excited.
I had a great time, if it's any consolation.
It was fun for me.
Fuck everybody else.
I've got to admit, for as much as we were flying by the seat of our pants, it just clicked.
Everyone was there.
They knew what was going on.
It was all people that we all liked, and they all liked us, and I think they were just thrilled
that we were doing an episode in front of them, which was really weird.
Probably not all of them.
I don't actually want to have that happen.
I actually got inquiries from TITMO trying to get us down for torture devices, but turn
that down.
I'm betting not all of them liked us or the show.
So, but yeah, I really felt the worst for MC Frontline.
I should have had better questions prepared.
I'd been wanting to get him on a show anyway, and he and I, we talked.
We're kind of friends anyway, and I talked to him.
He was scheduled to have a concert to come down that Sunday, actually.
He thought I was leaving Sunday night, or yeah, either Sunday or Monday, and he scheduled
a concert Sunday evening, thinking that I could make it, and I wasn't able to make it
because my flight left Sunday evening.
So, I didn't even get to see the concert, but he scheduled a concert in New York to make
the trip worth his while.
We set up down.
We had a booth reserved, so we set up down there and hawked some merchandise, some MC Frontline
stuff to make it more worthwhile for the trip to get him down there and doing the show.
And we were filming a, or I shouldn't say we.
I had nothing to do with it.
They were filming a documentary, Nerdcore Rising.
So, he had a camera crew there, so we were able to...
Oh, I completely forgot about that.
Yeah, we did some interviews with them, which would probably end up on the cutting room
floor, but...
I wonder if actually it ever got onto that thing.
Like, I did have to sign a waiver because they were recording during the radio show, and
they probably got me, I'm probably like, you know, swiping by.
I'm actually curious whether or not I made it on there.
Yeah, who knows?
We probably all end up on the cutting room floor.
It was such a bad...
I had that to my resume.
I was featured on Nerdcore Rising, and yes, I was on Church and Frames.
The actual performance itself, I kept...
My microphone, I guess I was breathing, and it was messing up the beat, and he had his
DJ CPU, the little toy device there, dropping the beat, and you couldn't really hear it.
The sound system was not set up for rapping or for a concert or anything like that, and
he couldn't hold the microphone in his hands.
He was trying to lean over the desk, and it was just a disaster, which was completely my
fault for not being prepared or anything like that, but as it turned out, it didn't really
matter anyway because the fucking lazy-ass recording team there, they had outsourced
it to some company to record, and I guess when their first one-hour tape was up, they
decided not to continue recording.
Even though we had a one-and-a-half-hour time slot, we had purposely scheduled to be the
last presentation of the night because we knew that we were going over the normal one-hour
time.
They decided to just pack it up and go home and said, fuck you guys, right in the middle
of MC Frontlot rapping.
Right in the middle.
You guys, I'm going home.
So, yeah, that really pissed me off.
So, actually, this recording, even the audio and the video, caught right off in the middle
of that, so, you know, we don't even have the full performance.
I think the Deadly Halon was on there, and you know what was kind of fun, too, is when I
present, and I give presentations and talks, I don't, I'm not a stand-behind-the-podium
kind of guy.
I like to get out and move, even if it's not, you know, I at least like to walk around on
the stage and kind of use some hand gestures, make it a little bit more interesting, exciting.
It's just my nature, I guess.
Not the way with his middle finger.
This one, this one, I was out in the audience.
I was walking up and down the aisles.
I was running, reenacting the Halon story in full, like, mime style, I guess.
I was out there reenacting the whole thing.
I was sweating.
It was hot.
All the lights, all the people.
It was a blast to do.
It may have sucked to listen to.
Don't even try to blame it on the lights and the people.
Yeah, well, maybe.
I'm big folks.
But, yeah, it was fun to do, even if it wasn't as fun to listen to afterwards.
It was a fun episode, and even more fun was the people there, and we all got together
afterwards because it was a combination of bin rev radio, and afterwards, I mean, even
after they were supposed to stop taping, we all went out, and we all went to White Castle.
Oh, I forgot about that.
That's a good story, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, it was just, it was a lot of fun, and we all got to meet people, and it was very
weird to have people coming up to me and say, oh, hey, I'm glad to meet you.
I'm like, I'm just me.
I'm not a celebrity, but I guess when you're up here and you actually seem like to know what
the hell you're doing, I guess people want to meet you.
Well, we fool people into thinking we know what we're doing.
And the other fun part is, okay, we're going to have the last story about this.
After White Castle, there were two cool things, and we were harassed by NYPD because we were
loitering, and, I mean, you were still inside, I think.
I was eating.
I was having my cheese fries.
I wasn't loitering.
Yeah, you were still eating along with other people, but a lot of other people just went
outside, and we just, you know, I think a couple of people were smoking cigarettes.
NYPD came like, you guys got to move.
Excuse me, what are you guys doing here?
I'm like, oh, we're going to have a couple of people with friends, and they're, of course,
they're like being rough and tumble cops.
And they're like, oh, there's a loitering.
I'm like, oh, okay, do you want us to move?
And he basically just said, wait a minute, this isn't how people are supposed to react.
And I said, oh, yeah, well, we'll just, we'll, I'll send some, we'll make sure that, you know,
we're going in, if they're going to be some while, we'll get out of here.
They're like, oh, okay.
And the other fun part is, before that happened, there was a couple who were changing a tire,
and we all helped them out.
And we basically did a nice public service announcement for hackers.
They're like, oh, yeah, we're at the hacking conference.
The next time you hear about hackers, remember, a couple of them help you change your tires.
And I've got to give credit for Savant on that one.
He's the one who actually was selling that.
Hackers with helping hands.
There you go.
Yeah, hackers without borders.
And don't forget, yeah, don't forget Bling Bling, our homeless friend in White Castle, too.
Oh, man.
He was a fun one.
He was a good guy.
We had a good talk with him.
He was definitely out there.
And there's good pictures.
It was cool.
Yeah, there's quite a few pictures of all of those things in the galleries and in the tubes somewhere.
I don't know.
Yeah, I think it's on the BINRAF galleries.
The BINRAF gallery.
And, yeah, who knows?
There's probably some others floating around there, too.
But I wish people used the gallery more.
But anyway, next few episodes.
168 through 161.
Yeah, these are just a bunch of wrap-up episodes of Hope and DEFCON, which was a week afterwards.
You went to DEFCON.
I did the Hope wrap-up with Madison Savant.
And you went up with DEFCON.
I don't think you did the wrap-up.
I forget who did that.
No, no.
Verbal and somebody else.
And Troops Verbal and Upside Down.
They all did that because they all went out there.
Because that was the one where I told you, I think I came back early in the morning, red-eye, had to go to work.
And then when I came home, I crashed.
And, yeah, so I knew I wasn't going to be able to do the wrap-up show either.
Yeah.
The West Coast was doing that.
Yeah.
162 and 164.
What's your 164?
Yeah, these were, well, a few of, not two of, a few of my favorite episodes.
Yeah, 162 and 164 both talked about tunneling.
And believe it or not, that's something we also hadn't, I don't think we'd covered in any detail before.
But I think Verbal did both of those episodes, if I'm not mistaken.
And it's not, we talked about tunneling and the application of tunneling.
And it's actually one of the most frequently asked questions that we see in the forums all the time.
They don't ask for it specifically by name, but people always asking, how do I access that?
How do I get past access restrictions?
How do I get around this?
And, you know, tunneling is a very common answer to that.
So we thought that, you know, I like those episodes.
The other common answer is leapscules.
Yeah, it's not as leet as it sounds.
It's pretty simple to do.
It's just that most people are never, no one ever teaches them or never shows them.
And actually, yeah, see, that's what it is.
163 was sandwiched in the middle there.
It was an episode I did with Quine, which was one of my friends here from the BR-407 meeting,
who actually, as I said earlier, moved up there to Boston.
But this was an interesting show because we actually did this show physically in my house.
We were actually in my computer room back here.
And it was really kind of funny.
First of all, it was the first time I'd ever recorded with anybody in the same room and not over the phone or at an event or something like that.
So that made it really awkward because, as I said before, I'm old school.
I got the lab tech microphone and the speakerphone and all that kind of stuff.
So it was really weird and probably funny visually if we were to take a video of it of us kind of taking turns, leaning into the mic, you know, like Delicious Dish on Saturday Night Live where they both lean into the mic when they want to talk.
Good times.
That was fun.
So that was an interesting episode because of that.
But, you know, hey, we're hackers.
We do what hackers do.
We figured it out.
We winged it.
I don't think anybody could tell the difference.
It came out pretty all right.
You know, the levels might not have been perfect, but they never are really.
Let's be honest.
165, this was another great episode title.
This was one of the classics.
Fishing, Are You Retarded?
That was a great title because that was pretty much an all-rant episode for me.
I had to get that out.
And after doing a bunch of serious shows in a row, you know, this was a throwback to the old days when we really had fun with the topics.
We definitely talked about fishing and techniques and some of the technical aspects of it.
But we also laughed our asses off that whole episode.
And that was just fun.
And the show was becoming kind of a chore because, again, all the real life stuff and how hard it was to come up with the topics and the time it takes.
This one was really a breath of fresh air for me to do because it put the fun back into it for a little while.
And if you want to hear a show that I think was really one of the fun, if not the funnest show or funniest show,
I was on one of my classic rants on several of them on that episode because I think anybody that falls for fishing is retarded.
I just – anyway, we won't go into it again.
Listen to episode 165 or any of the others.
I swear going back, so many of these hold up and are still interesting and fun.
I'm so glad.
Some aren't, but some aren't.
So jumping ahead, 169, virtualization.
That's another one of those topics that I was kind of hesitant about doing a show.
Everyone reads about it.
Everybody knows what virtualization is.
So I didn't want to cover that because it just seemed too ordinary and didn't know how much we could expand on it.
So we tried it, tried to go into some details and examples of its use and stuff like that.
And this is another one that, looking back at it, look at where we came from then to now.
We predicted and said in that episode that virtualization was definitely the future, the wave of the future and the future of hacking.
Specifically, I mean, you and I were talking about this before.
This is definitely becoming more commonplace in businesses and companies, but I still don't think hackers are taking advantage.
I mean, this is like a major project where I'm working right now.
We're talking about virtualizing about, you know, actually I can't really say much about it,
but we're talking about virtualizing over 100 servers into like a handful.
I mean, I'm not sure what the exact numbers are, but, yeah, it's not a lot.
It's like amazing what they're actually trying to do.
And, I mean, virtualization was one of those things that about a year ago, yeah, you kind of had some people talking about it,
but it was mostly, you know, very think, now it's sort of like virtualization, this is it.
Yeah, yeah, and, you know, again, maybe, I don't know that we were ahead of the curve or anything,
but we predicted it, we knew it was going to blow up, and it did, so we were right about that one.
Let's see, 170, another good episode because, again, getting some of my favorite co-hosts back on the show again
that had not been on in a while and brought Dual Parallel back to do an episode for the first time in a long time.
A lot of people liked hearing from him again, so that was good.
And the topic of physical security, I'm sorry, what was that?
I would say, I kind of shouted out noob, dual, but I don't want anyone to think that I think dual is a noob.
Please don't hurt me, dual.
No, no, not again.
I just prepared my credit rating.
The topic of this episode was physical security, and everybody in hackers always think of computers and hacking and security,
but they forget about basic physical security.
And dual and I both are very big proponents of that, and we both enjoy that,
so it's an important topic that we thought then needed more, I still think it needs more exposure,
and needed it then, so we tried to do that in that episode, and I think we covered a lot of good stuff.
You know, the simplified version, easy to remember, DDR, not Dance Dance Revolution, but Detect, Delay, Respond.
That's a good thing, the easy thing to remember.
Up, down, down, start.
Yeah, up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, select, start.
I don't think Adami makes DDR, but anyway.
Concert Command, baby.
How do you get...
All right, let's see, what else?
Oh, here's another bad pun title.
No, no, see, this is my favorite title.
Oh, I thought you were saying this, Monty.
The Mal-o-ween Special.
And you gave me this, even though this was an episode that I did, I believe, I was like,
I don't even know what the hell I'm going to call this, you know, like the Mal-o-ween Special.
Yeah, but I wasn't serious.
I didn't mean for you to actually use that, it was horrible.
But it was great, because it was totally on topic.
It was Halloween, it was about malware, I mean, it was, it was just, it was a fun title for it.
And, you know what, you asked me about, you were trying to come up with something clever
for it, and I said that thinking, this is horrible, this is awful.
I wasn't serious that that would work as a title.
That's like, one of your jokes.
Yeah, I mean, it was great, man.
You see, you don't want to do that around me, because I'm insane.
I'm like, I'm like, there we go.
I'm like freaking decoder.
Lock me up, man.
Mal-o-ween Special.
I don't know what I'm going to do.
Or Mal-o-ween Special.
I guess Mal-o-ween, I guess it has a little bit of a ring, but that was corny.
That was corny.
It's a player in that parentheses, that's why people aren't supposed to pronounce that.
I guess, that was one of our, yeah, that was not, whatever, that was what it was, whatever
that may be.
Yeah, well, 172 was a charter into, was a voyage into uncharted territories for BinRev Radio.
Yeah, something we always tried to avoid, politics.
We always had that no rule, politics, no politics rule.
Well, I mean, we were talking about e-voting and vote hacking and all that stuff, and yeah,
it was a very political-like episode, and we did go into a hazy career a lot, but I mean,
I listened to that episode a couple of times, and I think we did a pretty good job of trying
to stay politically neutral while more focusing on the problems with electronic voting, which
unfortunately, in a lot of discussions, people don't do that.
They're like, oh, you know, the evil corporations are going to try to raid the elections.
They're like, no, it was just bad doing.
Oh, it's a government, it's a Republican conspiracy.
It's the George Floyd government.
Exactly, it's a Republican conspiracy.
You notice when, okay, we're going to stop now.
Let's go on to 175.
There you go.
Exactly.
We are going to uphold that rule to the very end, try to stay out of those topics.
We focused on the tech.
There was, you know, there were several times we walked the line.
This was one of the hardest ones, but I think we managed to do it.
Because I can win.
I'm very political.
I'm a political candidate.
Win, you know, maybe there's a political show in the future somewhere.
I doubt it.
We don't have time, but.
Probably not.
Yeah, it would be, yeah.
It would be interesting.
Let's see.
Let's jump ahead to 175, where Booter makes his debut, talks about some culture jamming
stories.
That was pretty good stuff.
Yeah, that was a fun episode, and it has some fun stories.
Yeah, Booter's a good guy.
176, 177, a two-parter with you and Face Man, right?
Yeah, Face Man was another one who just sort of came up to me and pitched me a topic, and
I like that.
I think a lot of people really didn't like this.
I think it was one of the more hate mail-generating episodes we ever did, but I wouldn't say hate
people were just like, this isn't hacking.
What does, I still find this, you know, very related to hacking.
Surviving outside the system, living off the grid, is definitely hacking the system, and
I don't think a lot of people subscribe to that theory, but I didn't.
I would, this is my show, damn it.
Well, I know, I know Tom Icahn would agree with us, and probably some other people who
I'm not going to mention on here, but I agree with it completely.
I mean, again, it comes back to the physical security.
People, you know, you've got to get unplugged sometimes.
You've got to think outside of the box, and in some cases, the box is your box, you know?
Think outside of the computer.
I mean, if your computers go down, are your hacker skills enough that you could survive
off the grid?
Do you have those survival skills?
Could you hack your way through life if the computer was taken away from you, or if all
technology was taken away from you?
I think a lot of people, and I've got to say, probably to some, myself included sometimes,
where it would be rather difficult.
Oh, it absolutely would be.
I mean, hey, I'm as spoiled as everybody else on my high-speed internet access, but you
know what?
That's why this was a good topic.
I don't care if it was two episodes.
I don't care if people hate-mailed it.
I think people learned something out of it, and I thought it was good, and hey, fuck the
rest of it.
Otherwise, people can write in with other topics and do episodes.
Face Man did it, and they didn't.
Yeah, exactly.
And he helps to Face Man.
He did his research on that.
He knew his shit.
Yep.
Uh, 178.
Cop-out episode?
Uh, yeah, kind of, I guess.
It was one of those things that we were kind of prepared for, and we just had a bunch of
small, miscellaneous topics that we wanted to talk about, but we just tried to be, you
know, they can't all be gents.
Sorry.
Sorry, folks.
With the title, Holiday Freestyling, that just screams out to me, miscellaneous bullshit.
Yes.
You know, so that was, yeah, that was a shotgun show.
I think we referred to it before.
Um, but after that, we got on a pretty good streak.
The next, like, five, six episodes through 184, 185, we got on a pretty good streak of
lots of topical episodes, lots of different co-hosts, and stayed on topic very well, and
actually replanted that thought in my mind that, you know what, maybe we'll survive this
after all.
Maybe we still can pull this off.
We got on a good streak, a good run, and, uh, 85 on internet advertising that I did with
Natus.
That was a fun episode because I didn't really know a whole lot about it, but Natus had been
doing a lot of work on it.
My, uh, knowledge was limited to what I learned from my hacking Google AdWords as Black Ratchet
gets dropped from the line there.
We'll hope he calls back in.
And we're going to keep recording, like I said earlier, we do on BinRev Radio.
And hopefully he'll just join right on in where we left off because that's how we roll.
Okay, I think my account ran out on new phone.
Oh, well.
But I was just saying that, um, the internet advertising, the only thing I know about it
was how to get Black Ball from Google AdWords for my little desktop presentation.
So Natus schooled me on a lot of topics on that and how to, uh, told the listeners how
to make some money off of their website.
Some of the programs that worked, some that didn't work.
Talked about PageRank and some other things like that.
Um, 186, another, this is another one of my favorite episodes just because it was different
than anything we'd ever done before co-host-wise.
I, I emailed Scott Baranato, who was a writer from CSO Magazine, Chief Security Officer Magazine,
about an article that he wrote, this really good article that I liked because he didn't
demonize hackers.
And I, when I read, I look for stuff like that.
That's a good thing to me and I try to, you know, in life we have a tendency to bitch
and complain when stuff is bad, but you have to also support people that are good and doing
good things.
So I emailed him and actually invited him on the show and to my surprise, he accepted.
He was actually curious and interesting and interested in what we were all about, you know.
So, um, again, it was very different for BinRev Radio to actually have a real security
professional and, and a writer about security professionals, probably more to the point.
Um, with a whole different point of view on the show, a whole different thing, A, knowledgeable
in his topics and the topics we talked about on the show, but also his opinions and thought
processes on, you know, he, he, he co-hosted the show, which included talking about some of
the email, he was able to freestyle, he knew what we were talking about, and give a different
viewpoint.
And again, it goes back to what I said earlier about mixing hosts together.
Everybody's got different opinions and we're going to disagree on the show and that's okay.
We can't be afraid of conflict.
You can't be afraid to argue and debate.
Even with your friends on the air, we don't agree, agree on everything.
You know, it's, it's, it's good to have people with different viewpoints.
That's what makes the show special.
It gets stale if it was the same people over and over again.
So, he brought something very different and that was definitely a show that I enjoyed
and I think really changed the show up for a lot of people and, and I don't know, I thought
that was one, that was a top ten for me as well, just because it was so different.
And then where do we, let's see, 187, um, 187 on Undercover Cop, the murder episode.
I had a friend of mine from Fort Lauderdale, Mia Flux from the Fort Lauderdale 2600 group, come
on and talk about some accessibility topics, uh, and some technology breakthroughs and
accessibility.
This kind of goes back to the, the bioinformatics.
These are things that a lot of people don't do a lot of research or know a lot about, but
there's a lot of really cool technology there and a lot of breakthroughs and, and new, um,
technologies that come out of those fields.
So, that was an interesting episode.
And then it kind of, um, I, I think that's pretty much, 188, 189 was the Hack 5 doubleheader,
if you remember that one.
And one where Droops had pre-recorded an episode.
Um, after us having some missed episodes here recently, um, Droops, again, being the, the
cool savior that he is there, um, went ahead and did an interview, recorded an episode
with, uh, Darren and Wes from over at Hack.5.
And so we kind of sat on that in case we ever missed an episode again.
Well, we missed an episode again.
So, um, we'd been sitting on that episode for a month or two probably.
And, uh, we'd missed an episode one week.
So what I did is I tried to pull another doubleheader where I'd make up for the lost episode, missed
episode, and I recorded another show in that series with Movex, um, one of the Hack 5 guys
who, who'd been on the show and was, uh, uh, running their forums and some other projects
over there, um, doing a lot of stuff with them.
So, I did an episode with him and the Hack 5 guys.
We're talking about Droops being so cool, uh, just for a second.
I just want to drop a URL there.
It's, uh, www.blackratchet.org slash ETC, Echo Tango Charlie, slash Troops Superman, one
word, um, dot PNG.
And if you go, uh, www.blackratchet.org slash ETC, you'll, you'll find it unless it's an
open directory.
And that's how Cool Troop is.
We'll just leave it at that.
Safe for work.
It's okay.
I know the picture you're talking about.
And, um.
It kind of gives, the URL kind of gives it away.
Well, and you, you also just gave, um, you also just gave us another.
Another one of the most annoying things about Season 3 was you pronouncing everything Echo,
Tango, Bravo, Alpha, Charlie, Franklin, whatever the fuck other names you use to use.
Fuck's right, you asshole.
Yeah, whatever.
Oh, my gosh.
We wanted so badly to do, I think Not Theory and I sat down one day and made up a list of
other words for all of those that were all, like, graphically disgusting.
Like, B was Bukkake and, and C was Gank.
Oh, the other, the other one was Adam Baker, um, I forget what C is, I know it used to be
Dog, Easy, Frank, uh.
So, yeah, I can find another alphabet there for you there.
All I know is that listening to you read a tiny URL on the air made me want to put a gun in my mouth.
It's got, people were not questioning how to spell it.
Well, that doesn't mean it was still annoying.
Oh, hey, I can, I'm not one to talk, you know, I got the whole Southern accent thing.
I try my best to spell them out if I have to, if I try to enunciate, but, hey, whatever.
Oh, let's see, what else, um, let's see.
Man, you know what, let's, that brought us up to 189.
Man, let's see, 191, uh, again, we're falling behind on episodes, and I just accepted the fact that I'm not able to make up for it anymore.
Not doing any more double-headers.
And, I mean, I'm going to take, um, as much blame for this as you are, because, uh, I was supposed to step in, and really, I don't have any time anymore either.
So, it was just both of us, and, um, it was, I mean, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't good.
And I think you were basically, share my, share, our, our opinions are one of the same on this.
It's just a sad, it was a very sad boon for both of us.
Yeah, I mean, the beginning of the end may have been, you know, earlier in round 140, 150, but this is when the writing was on the wall.
And, yes, in the members-only forum, we had discussions of this, Ratchet, myself, and Savant was going to try to take over.
And we tried to work something out.
We tried to work out a rotation.
We tried to work out some sort of system.
We discussed going bi-weekly.
We discussed going monthly.
And, you know, the more we talked about it, the more we realized that, you know what, it's coming to the end.
You know, so we, we knew for sure around 191, 190, around that time, what was going to happen.
Um, it was, it was so hard.
As a matter of fact, 190, I believe, was when I had to go solo.
I couldn't even find anybody to co-host with me.
But I wanted to release that show, so I went solo.
It was awful.
Um, you know, I'm not even funny with the co-host, so by myself, you can imagine how awful that was.
I, solo shows is, again, it's not the format that I've always liked.
It's not what BinRev Radio is, so that one was a bad one.
Now, once we kind of came to that point of acceptance at 191, we realized that we're not going to meet the schedule anymore.
What I did decide to do was, okay, at least what we're going to do is wrap it up with good shows.
It may not be weekly.
It may not even be bi-weekly.
We just said, fuck it, we're going to put them out as quickly as we can within our schedules and put out episodes.
And all of those episodes, towards the end, I'm happy with.
I think they came out pretty good.
I think all of them had good, solid topics.
I think we definitely lived up to expectations.
We didn't have any cop-outs, anything that I would call cop-outs.
They're all good shows.
They're recent enough.
You can go listen to them.
They're still fresh.
They're not stale.
They're not bad.
They're not timely.
You know, you can go listen to those, and they should still be fine.
So go listen to the past few episodes.
And they weren't released back-to-back, like I said, week after week.
But I think they were all good episodes.
And that basically leads us up to here, episode number 200 that we're listening to right now.
And we're probably...
Man, I loved this episode.
This was great.
This was one of my favorite episodes.
And it was just so well-written.
And...
Oh, never mind.
Well, we're not done yet.
So I don't know if this is a good episode or not.
Again, I decided that we're going to close this up.
It was certainly a long episode.
I loved it.
But we're probably, let's see, we're over four hours in right now, I bet you.
Four hours in.
I mean, about an hour per season going through this.
But, I mean, a lot of these stories people didn't know.
People hadn't heard before.
A lot of updates.
A lot of backstory.
Hell, I didn't know some of this stuff.
So I'm hearing some of this stuff for the first time.
Which, again, is what's great about the show.
So, episode 200, we've got a few more things I still want to talk about.
But I guess, now that we've recapped most of the shows, gave you some of the backstory.
What was it?
Director's commentary, we called it.
Director's commentary.
I think this is a good time to kind of switch gears and talk about a few other things to wrap up the show.
Talk about the community in general.
Talk about some people.
And there's still a few more things I want to do.
We're not done yet.
I know you've had four hours of BinRev Radio so far.
You know what?
You can pause it and come back later.
Or you can keep right on listening.
I'm going to keep right on talking.
I'm going to close this out.
Dude, this is better than crack anyway.
Yeah, exactly.
This is an all-nighter here.
You might have to listen to this all night over the weekend.
Break it up into parts, whatever you've got to do.
But I'm going to make sure that everything that needs to be said and really give closure to Binary Revolution Radio happens.
So to you, Black Ratchet, thank you for being on the show.
You don't have to own up or apologize for anything.
Real life happens.
We've always said that from day one.
We all know that.
Hey, we had a good run.
We put out a couple years, four years of, I won't say good shows.
I'll say the best shows that we could do.
You know, I had fun doing it.
I hope you did.
You know, I appreciate you coming on this episode.
I know it was even difficult for you to get away from this tonight.
But taking over the show, it would have ended after two seasons if it wasn't for you.
So I absolutely owe you that.
There's no doubt about it that you are the reason that BinRev lasted four years.
I could not have done it without you and a lot of other people.
So I appreciate that.
I want royalties on the CD sale.
Okay, that's going to amount to zero dollars.
We can't even sell a fucking t-shirt.
People beg for the t-shirt.
Okay, don't get started on a rant.
I'm not going to end the show on a rant.
I'm going to end the show with a thank you.
And everybody stick around.
We're going to talk about some other stuff.
Well, right now.
I think I'm going to close out the show solo, even though I don't normally like doing shows
all by myself.
But I thought, you know what, it's just kind of appropriate, I guess, to sit here and kind
of ramble and spill my thoughts on the life cycle of Binary Revolution Radio from the beginning.
And, you know, we've just spent several hours going through some episodes, telling some
stories with some of our past co-hosts and friends of the show.
And, you know, I guess let's kind of go back to the beginning of all of this and the beginning
of BinRev Radio, that is.
There's obviously a lot of backstory and history before Binary Revolution Radio was ever thought
of.
I mean, I've been around for quite a while, 36 years on this planet.
So I've been in the hacking scene since I was in middle school and high school, mostly
in high school when I started in the mid-80s, late-80s.
But as far as the beginning of Binary Revolution Radio, you know, there is the official show
put out by 2600 called Off the Hook.
And even now there's another show called Off the Wall.
And these have been around for a long, long time.
They're, what I would have to say, is probably the first hacking radio show.
There may be others, but that's the first and the most common, most well-known that I'd
ever heard about.
I'm sure there were others here and there along the way, so I'm not saying that to put any
others down that I might not be aware of.
But that was the big one.
That was the only one everybody ever knew.
But for some reason, nobody ever really thought about doing another show.
Well, as it usually does, technology drives a lot of things.
And when the inception of encoded audio and audio formats came along to the global interweb,
some people decided that it might be useful to actually start recording their voice and
releasing shows on the internet.
Not podcasting.
This was long before even podcasting came around.
And people would put out these very rare, very hard-to-find shows.
And MP3 format is the one that really took off and made it common.
And one of the first ones that I actually stumbled across on the interweb was a show called Hacker
Mind.
And very shortly thereafter, or pretty much the same time within a week or two, another show
called RFA, or Radio Freak America.
And these are two shows that I found while surfing the global interweb in, you know, much
earlier, simpler times, if you will.
And these are shows that I heard and listened to, as well as off the hook here and there.
I wanted as much as I could get my hands on.
I was never one of those people that thought of doing other projects or anything really as
competition so much.
I never thought of it that way.
As a matter of fact, Dual Parallel, who was the inventor, one of the inventors or creators
of Radio Freak America, and I became friends on the interweb, and I began doing episodes
of Radio Freak America.
And both of these shows actually had a relationship with a station called Rant Radio.
Good friends over at Rant Radio, Sumerian Smokehouse, Sean Kennedy, all those guys over there,
they actually open arms adopted us and let us, you know, allowed us to put our show on
their station, which reached a lot of people streaming media, streaming audio at the time
was also something that was very new.
And they were doing some breakthrough technology, and they had the capacity to do so.
So that worked out very well.
It was a good relationship for all of us.
And as we did Radio Freak America, we watched the numbers grow and more people become interested
in it.
Hacker Mind, unfortunately, real life came in, as we talk about on the show all the time,
and they were not able to continue doing that show.
Radio Freak America was able to continue through 100 episodes for two years, which was great,
and I was very, very happy to be a part of that.
And somewhere along the way there, Binary Revolution Radio was born.
We talked about it earlier, which episode it was, and frankly, I don't even remember offhand.
It's several hours now.
I forgot, lost track of all those.
There's so much there.
But the early BINREV Radio, we also got on the Rant Radio stream, but we also decided
to launch our own stream, our own internet radio station, because around this time, not
only was there BINREV Radio, but very shortly after BINREV Radio, we encouraged people to
make other shows from the forums, and several different types of hacker media shows popped
up around the net, and we wanted a place to house all of those, so we created BINREV Radio,
DDPHACK Radio, excuse me, which aired BINREV Radio along with a lot of other shows.
Again, it's been quite a long show here, so you have to forgive me if I'm stumbling over
my words, but we created DDPHACK Radio to give a place for all of these things to be
gathered together.
Another great site that came up back then was hackermedia.org from Kizzle, which was
a place where, at this point in time, podcasting was beginning to be heard of.
It was starting to come out, which is nothing but a glorified XML feed.
We had so many shows that were scattered around there, and hackermedia was a site that would
attempt to bring all of these together.
Now, it also had some other non-hacking sites, it was a little bit spread out, but anything
that might be of interest to hackers, you had this central portal where you could come and
find it.
Well, Kizzle turned that over to our good friend, Droop, fellow DDP member, and it's
grown ever since then as well.
We've got it categorized and focused, Droop's doing great work on that, and of course, NIC84
doing fantastic work coding up all of the back end of DDPHACK Radio, so those guys are doing
great work to also further hacker media, get it out there, get people listening to it.
And again, not just Binary Revolution Radio, it was never about that.
We were just one small part in a growing kind of movement, a revolution, if you will, that
had so many shows and so much information out there, and that was great.
And there is actually a history to this whole thing.
There is actually a backstory to a lot of this stuff that people probably don't appreciate.
And again, it's not just Binary Revolution Radio, it's just that over four years, Binary
Revolution Radio has been a part or been in existence while a lot of other great things were
happening around it.
One other thing worth mentioning also is the technicalities of how we do the show.
And you may have heard Black Ratchet and I arguing or joking earlier about the technology
behind the way I do the show.
I still implement a method of recording the show, and I'm doing it right now for this final
episode that is so insanely simplistic.
And this actually goes back to Radio Freak America, the same way that Duel also recorded
the show.
We still record the show the same way for Binary Revolution Radio.
I do anyway.
And that is very simply a Lab Tech microphone.
I guess it's four or five years old now.
I think it was maybe $995, $795, a very cheap little microphone that plugs into the sound
card, speakerphone.
Gone through a couple of those over that time period, I think.
And I'm sure the people on the other end of the line will tell you that it's not very
good, but it works fine on my end.
They may hear some random touch tones when they do shows, but for me, it works good.
I put the microphone in between the two of us, so do a little sound check and some adjusting
at the beginning of every single show.
It's another one of those little behind the scenes set up things a lot of people don't
know, but have to kind of adjust that microphone, adjust the volume of the speakerphone, do sound
checks to make sure that the co-host is able to be heard.
And in most cases, I try to make sure that their voice is actually a little higher than
mine.
If that way, if they interrupt or jump in with a comment or something, I want to make sure
that their voice dominates mine.
I don't want to cut them out, so I make sure that their voice comes in loud and clear.
So very simple, something that anybody can do, something we've always emphasized for
day one.
Anybody can, for a few dollars, start up a radio show.
There's tons of software.
I still use Audacity.
Tons of software out there, free or otherwise, that you can use to record this, encoding it
to MP3.
Another, you know, I wish we could have all along, we wanted to convert this also over
to Og Vorbis and just was one of those things where we never had time to really do it.
I do still have most of the masters.
One episode, any random episode of Binary Revolution Radio that I recorded, hour and a
half long, takes up approximately about two gigs of storage to hold the very high quality
audio.
And then we mixed that down into actually a fairly high audio MP3 file.
That's something else that we have done for Binary Revolution Radio that was different
than most other shows.
I always wanted to do justice to the opening and closing music or any other music that we
used in the show.
So I always try to kind of find a happy medium of file size versus sound quality.
So I'm sure this very episode, being as long as it is, will be a huge, huge file size.
But maybe we'll release a lower bitrate version of this as well for the dial-up impaired, if
you will.
And that two gig files, I've got them on my NAS, my network storage device.
So maybe at some point in the future we'll release very high quality on DVD or something
like that, collect them all together.
That's what I did.
That's the methods I used to record.
I know Ratchet and Strom, they used a much more modern, much more common, actually, a lot
of shows started doing this, and that is using asterisk to record their calls, to record
their shows.
People would call into a number, call into their PBX running asterisk, and they would
set it up to record the audio that was being spoken through the phone.
So it was as easy as calling someone up on the phone and have it automatically record it.
Obviously, there was some trimming to be done after that was over with.
One of the things I always thought was kind of awkward was you have to mix in the opening
music and closing music and the email theme.
They worked through all that, found ways to inject that in there by touching certain combinations
of touch tones and things like that.
So they really did a lot more technically advanced way of recording the show than I did.
Not without some pitfalls.
There were a couple where the stereo was a little off and it was kind of disorienting.
There was some where the lag came into effect, where questions were being answered before
the question was actually asked.
I think there was something wrong with the timing and the sequencing of the two streams
coming in.
Could have been VoIP-related.
Could have been bandwidth issues.
Who knows?
But it was definitely a superior technological solution to it.
And it's something that, once again, a lot of people use.
Default Radio used that same method of recording, as well as many other shows since then.
Now, I'm not going to go into too much more detail about, you know, the how to record a show.
We've done episodes of that in the past and I think it's pretty easy to figure out.
There's plenty of tutorials.
Again, once podcasting blew up, lots of people went out there and posted tutorials of how to
do this stuff that we'd been doing for years and had already told people about.
So the world caught up with that.
So there's always information to tell you how to do that.
The next important thing in doing the radio show was content.
It was very important to me from the get-go.
We did a couple shows in the beginning, I admit, that were a little bit more news-focused
than I would have liked.
But I realized early on that one of the things that I wanted to make different about Binary
Revolution Radio than all the other shows that I had heard before, you know, one of
the things I always felt like I was missing is I liked those shows.
I loved listening to them and being on these other shows.
But one thing I always wanted to do was have a show where the format was very rigid, reliable,
and strict.
There's certainly nothing wrong.
There were shows like Default, which was fantastic.
Default Radio, great show that was just random.
It was fun.
It was just fly by the seat of your pants.
And that's actually what made it great.
The lack of a strict format was their format, if that makes any sense at all.
The fact that, yeah, they knew a lot of stuff they wanted to talk about, but they didn't
set rigid, strict format as far as we have to start off with email and housekeeping, and
then we go into a main topic, and then we have closing music, et cetera, et cetera.
They never really worried too much about that.
They just went out there and had fun, and that's what made that show great.
The same thing with Radio Freak America.
It was a little bit more strict.
And Duel, as much as he gives me grief over my show novels, Duel himself actually wrote
show notes for most of the episodes of Radio Freak America, so he can't speak a whole lot.
Mine may have been a little bit more verbose, I admit, but actually taking the time to prepare
for a show is something that I always tried to do.
I didn't like flying by the seat of my pants because, to me, when I hear other shows doing
that, I can tell.
I don't want dead air.
I don't want people thinking we're not completely prepared for the show.
Don't script out the entire show, obviously.
We still fly by the seat of our pants as far as content, what we're going to say, and what
we're going to talk about.
We just want to have a format that flows easily so we can talk about everything, make sure
we get it all in in the time frame allotted, which we, again, fail that many times.
Sometimes we had to break shows up into multiple episodes, or we weren't able to cover everything
that we wanted.
But have predetermined content week to week.
One week we may talk about fishing.
One week we may talk about rainbow tables.
One week we may talk about man-in-the-middle attacks.
Could be, you know, any, obviously you can go back through the show titles and see all
the different things we covered.
But we would do the research, you know, and most of it was stuff we'd already researched
or already knew about.
And if not, we would do a lot of research on our own as well.
There are many things that I learned on the show.
I'm like, you know what?
I'd like to do a show about this.
So I would spend maybe a month.
I'd know in advance what the show was going to be about.
I'd spend a month or more researching this, asking around to other people to teach me a
lot of this stuff, and ultimately getting a co-host on that could also, that also did
know about this and could also teach me more about it as well.
So we always try to focus our co-hosts, people who had experience.
It wasn't just, you know, I could have easily done Binary Revolution Radio every single week
with, you know, the same people.
I could have done the show with Winter Mute every single week from week one.
We did a few episodes with he and I, and then we switched it up.
We bring in Dual Parallel from Radio Freak America and Blaine Inquisitor, who we still
talk to from Radio Freak America and other things, and mix it up.
And then as the show went on, I mean, over the course of the show, and gosh, maybe I should
have looked this up before we started recording, I really don't know how many different people
co-hosted Binary Revolution Radio.
So, so many different people, and, you know, not always me.
There was also kind of a running joke, it was stank and co-host.
Well, that was only because I was the one who was sitting here recording behind the microphone,
but certainly there were other people that hosted the show along the way, many times
without me.
And even when I was on the show, I tried to stay in the background and let the knowledgeable
people handle the show.
I have no problem admitting my limits to my knowledge.
Everybody has limits to their knowledge.
Some people just don't want to admit them as well as others.
So, we'd always get people on there to try to enhance the content of the show.
It's not about ego, it's not about who's leet and who knows this and that.
It was all about trying to get something out there that people could listen to, enjoy, learn
from, and, yeah, have a little fun in the process.
You know, we were never, we were never shooting to be a mainstream show.
We never wanted to be a show that would be on normal radio.
If we were shooting for that, obviously, we would have gone a different route.
We wouldn't have gone with an internet show.
We wouldn't have gone with the whole downloads only thing.
We insisted all along on that format.
When you listen to Binary Revolution Radio, one of the things I was always proud of is
that we have that opening theme music by Zerl, our good friend Zerl, who gave us permission
to use that song, Dedication to Hackers and Crackers, which everybody has asked about
on many occasions, as our opening song.
And I wanted that, you know, after, you know, many episodes of the show, when people would
hear that music, you know, for me, listening to the show, it's like, yes, it's time.
I can't wait.
Even when I listened to episodes by Black Ratchet or whoever else was hosting or co-hosting
the show, Droops, whoever, hearing that was almost like an adrenaline rush for me.
It's like, yes, I get to listen to the next episode of the radio show, Binary Revolution
Radio, and I'm on the other end listening to it.
That was always a rush to me, and I liked that.
And that's one of the format things that I wanted to make sure that we kept all along.
No discussing slash dot or dig tops.
Of course, we've been around long before dig ever thought of existing, but no discussing
news stories, as I said earlier, because those things are timely.
If you talk about news items, something that's in the news four years ago, there's no way
you would really go back and listen to that again.
I mean, if you wanted to go back and listen to a news topic for four years ago and listen
to us talk about it, that's boring to me.
Frankly, that's boring to me to listen to a news topic in general.
You have to bring something fresh and different and new to it.
I can read slash dot.
I don't need somebody to read it to me unless they really have some insight.
I would listen to a story talking about news topics if they interviewed the people directly
involved in it that had intimate firsthand knowledge.
But most of the time, shows that were coming out on these podcasts, these technology shows,
which got infinitely more downloads than us, talked about news topics with people that
were completely unrelated to it.
They just read the same thing I did and regurgitate that back to me as though they were somehow
adding value to it.
And I never, ever liked that type of show.
So early in the beginning, we steered away from that and steered towards an emphasis on
teaching and learning and having guests that can enhance that and trying to go topical.
You can go back.
You know, I do honestly believe this.
You can go back to episodes from season one, even early episodes, and the content, whatever
the topic was at that time, you can listen to those shows now.
And they still, for the most part, hold up.
And not many shows can say that.
I know off the hook, actually, we'll go back through old episodes sometimes and play clips
and talk about how they predetermined this and how they knew this was coming way in advance.
But you know what?
They have to dig through a lot of archives to find that.
I like to think that the majority, most, I will say, of the episodes of Binary Revolution
Radio still stand to this very day.
And I think that is also due to the emphasis on that.
Another thing in the format that I was very animated about was that we do the show every
week, every week on the same time.
As a kid growing up, I think anybody listening to this, I don't know if it's the same for
younger, but for my generation, boy, there was nothing better than waking up Saturday
morning to run in and watch cartoons.
You always knew they were going to be on.
You always knew what you were going to run and watch.
You got to go watch the Laugh Olympics.
You got to go watch Scooby-Doo.
You got to go watch those shows.
And even anybody watching television has shows that they look forward to, that they sit down
and make sure they're in front of the TV for, I don't know, say American Isle, for example.
So you'll look forward to that show and you can't wait for that day when it comes on.
So instead of randomly doing shows, which again is something that happened on a lot of
other shows, I wanted to set an absolute rigid schedule that were going to come out every
week, same time, which was, that was helped again by Rant Radio and DDP Hack Radio.
We were streaming and we kind of had a commitment to come out with that.
So some of that was actually assisted and demanded by scheduling a show.
It's kind of like, you know, American Idol can't take a week off.
TV shows can't take a week off.
It doesn't quite work that way.
So we wanted to also be in that same vein where people could depend on and rely on hearing
Binary Revolution Radio every week.
And the only other rule that we had in there, you know, the format again is pretty well known
that we started off with the theme song, the introduction.
We, I don't know if we did it in the very early episodes, but I started to make sure that
I announced the date that the show aired.
So down the road, it'll be historically accurate that it aired on this date and time, the episode
number, the co-hosts.
We did a little housekeeping at the beginning, which was anything we had announcement-wise,
any changes, anything on the forums or any of the projects we were working on that we
wanted to announce.
We went into the email section.
We had some great email theme music that people had made for us over the years.
And email was an important part of our format.
We wanted feedback.
Once again, who am I to come on and do the show?
I'm the one that just happened to sit down and do it, but there are so many people out
there listening to the show that know more about these topics than me.
Once again, I have no problems saying that or admitting that.
So we always look forward each week to email to hear feedback from people that would either
add to it or on occasion correct us if we misspoke or even bring in controversy or other
questions, suggestions for other show topics, just all kinds of great stuff.
And sometimes we would spend, I think there were, I'm pretty sure actually that there
were several times where we spent an entire show reading email and never got to our main
topic.
And you know, some people may not have liked those as much.
They were so used to hearing a regular topic every week.
We would just push the topic back to the subsequent week, talk about it again on the next episode.
It wasn't dismissed or lost.
We would just kind of push it back because we thought that the email or whatever we were
talking about or rambling about or ranting about held up on its own.
So we just stopped and went on, pushed it back to the next week.
And the only other thing was we would close out the show every week with shouts.
I wanted again, it's about community and it's about all the people that contribute to the
show, even if they're not co-hosting the show, if they're not directly, everybody writing
show notes, sending in emails, just listening to the show and letting us know that yes, there
are people out there that are interested in this stuff.
Everybody had some sort of input to the show and that's something that we always appreciated.
So we made sure to have a section at the end of the show for shouts to say thank you
to all those people along the way.
We certainly couldn't have done it without them.
And we had one rule on Binary Revolution Radio.
Out of all the other rules, you know, we had a format.
If you want to call the format a rule, I guess you can say.
But we really only had one rule on Binary Revolution Radio and that rule was no politics.
Said from the very beginning that I don't want to talk about politics.
Even stuff that's related to hacking, we had to walk a very fine line with those.
Some things like the Patriot Act over the years and, you know, we do walk, there are certain
topics that may border that legality issue, lines, stories that are going on.
And we tried really hard not to go into the political side of things because that is well
covered by other radio shows.
And I think we all know what we're talking about there or other magazines that have beaten
those to death.
You know, it's like I got enough of that and I know how much I got tired of hearing the same
thing every quarter or every week on a radio show and the bashing and et cetera, et cetera.
It's too much and it's already spoken for.
Someone's already doing that.
So, you know what?
More power to them.
But we said from day one we did not want to get into politics.
Certainly we touched on it on occasion, but we tried to keep it to a technical aspect of
anything like voting machines came up and we wanted to make sure we don't want to go into
this whole party conspiracy stuff.
We tried to stay away from that.
We tried to never mention presidents by name or parties by name or any of that kind of
stuff.
We wanted to avoid it because most people wanted us to focus on the technology and that's
what we tried to do.
So, again, we would try to get guests on the show based on the topic at hand and their
availability.
And sometimes we'd have to work a lot of stuff into the guest availability when I wanted to
have certain specific people on there to talk about whatever their topics or whatever
we could do to work around their schedule.
We did that as well.
And all of those things combined, that's what made up Binary Revolution Radio.
I've been talking for, what, 15 minutes about the format and what it is.
But you know what?
It's really not that difficult.
Strict format, strict timing, and one rule, no politics.
That was it.
That's it.
Summarized, four years, summarized into three little things.
It was that simple.
Now, moving away from the actual show itself, you know, some of the great things that I am
leaving Binary Revolution Radio with are, well, you know, some great friends.
You know, it may be corny, but hey, I'm a corny guy sometimes.
I've come away with great friends.
Most of the people that I've done the radio show with, almost without exception, I still
talk to on a regular basis.
I still communicate with, I've got a lot of friends in this scene.
And speaking of friends, I certainly couldn't do the final episode of Binary Revolution Radio
without getting one of my longest friends in the hacking scene.
Wait a minute.
Longest friends.
Does that have double entendre?
That's true, actually.
Is that a double entendre?
Duel Parallel joining me on the show here.
I've been trying to get Duel on the show all week, so we just got him on the show, and
it's perfect timing because Duel, this is something you and I have always agreed on.
You know, you and I have been friends for a long time.
Bland, we've all been friends for a long time.
Win or mute.
And that's one of the great things about this scene in general.
Binary Revolution Radio, over the course of four years, I've met a lot of great people
because of the show, inside of the show, outside of the show.
And you and I run in the same circles.
I'm sure a lot of people are wondering how everybody is doing that they've heard over
the shows over these years.
And people may not realize.
I mean, you and I talk, you know, once every week, just about.
I'm sure we fluctuate here and there.
But you and I have stayed in touch all this time, even though people on the forums or the
radio show may not have heard you.
Frequently, you've got real life that you're dealing with, of course, like we all are.
And, of course, that's why this is the final episode of Binary Revolution Radio because
we all have to do that.
But, you know, everybody's still around.
Everybody's still doing well.
And, you know, there's some stories out there that I think people would enjoy hearing and
having some closure on it.
So, I guess to start off, how are you doing all these years?
People have not heard from you.
I know you're fine.
But, you know, why don't you tell everybody how are things?
You've got a BINREV meeting out there, right?
Yeah, we started BINREV meeting, BINREV 602 shows.
And it's really, really, it's amazing.
Great meetings.
There are, you know, a lot of people from the 2600 meeting get together.
Let me just say this.
Well, first of all, I'm driving.
So, I'm like on my cell phone, driving a stick, you know, eating jack-in-the-box all at
the same time.
Oh, man.
And, um.
Don't die, please.
No, no, I'll live.
I'll live.
So, I have to say that I've never, maybe because I'm getting older or maybe because, you know,
friends were just in school years, right?
But I've never had such good friends this long, you know?
Yeah.
As the friends I've had in the acting community, I mean, my best friend.
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
You know, and that's kind of interesting you say that because I had said that a few
minutes earlier, um, before you got on the call here, um, maybe there is something to
do with getting older and the age thing, you know?
A little bit of maturity, a little bit more.
Maybe.
More, more, more of what it is for me.
I noticed myself growing a bigger appreciation for those things.
Whereas, when I was younger, you have friends all the time and it's all, you take it for
granted.
You don't really think about it.
You know, who's a real friend and who's a drinking buddy and that kind of stuff.
But, you know, my real friends.
Yeah, it's all that kind of pussy.
Yeah.
Rax always said he did it for the chicks, right?
Right.
So, you know, my real friends have always come from the hacking scene.
They really have.
Right.
So, let's see who.
Okay.
I'm doing, I'm doing well.
Uh, I, I moved.
I'm doing different things.
I'm still looking to do different things.
Always, you know, learning.
And then, uh, um, going to Paris tomorrow, actually.
That's another reason why it's been hard to get a hold of me.
So, you go to Paris.dualdenew.com.
Yeah.
Um, just, just really enjoying life.
And I've really learned.
Let me pass this little bit of information on.
Well, not that I'm holding lives or anything, but, um, time is important.
You know, life and enjoying life, doing things in life is important.
Not, things aren't important.
Doing things.
Exactly.
Um, it's important.
I've really, really learned that.
I've, I've, I've, um, pretty much, not totally, obviously, but, uh, I have gone a long way as far as liberating myself from material things.
I mean, I've, my wife and I have, have downsized considerably, and it's such a freedom.
Oh, God, it's such a freedom.
So, all you motherfuckers out there, stick the fuck away from McMansions, and you're, well, I've got an excuse, but, just stay away from all that shit, because it doesn't get you anywhere, man.
Yeah.
It doesn't get you anywhere.
Yeah, and that's, that's, that's, honestly, that's probably why the X community is so amazing, and why the people are so amazing, because they, I'm probably preaching in the choir.
They already know that.
Yeah, well, it's, it's kind of like, um, it's kind of like one of those corny, uh, MasterCard commercials, you know.
You can put price tags in a lot of things, but there are some things in the world that are priceless, you know, and good friends are one of them.
Well, speaking of good friends, um, I wanted to, let's go through a list of some of these hosts people have heard from.
Let's bring them up to date, before we end up the show here, and, um, and tell how everybody's doing, because, again, between the two of us, we keep up with all these people.
Uh, Wintermute, of course, episode one.
I started the show with Wintermute, Wintermute from the RFA days.
Um, why don't you, you go ahead and start off, and, um, give us an update on Wintermute.
Well, let me just say this, that he's a lead mofo, and he's in his, I can, I can say this, I'm sure he's getting his undergrad.
Um, I, so he's doing great, and he's just, just hyper-intelligent, um, and he's, he'll, he'll be a PhD someday for sure.
Oh, absolutely.
He'll be Dr. Mute, I have no doubt.
Dr. Mute, the freak scout.
Yep, doing well.
Um, hear from him every once in a while, but, you know, college life.
You know how that goes.
Oh, yeah, he's, last thing I heard, Rax, uh, was getting him loaded at the front-a-lot show at Hope, I think.
So, he's on the right track, right there, he's on the right track.
And he does occasionally make it out to conferences and stuff, so you can still bump into him, so, um, that's good to know.
And he's doing well with the ladies, too, but I'll just back away from that.
Um, our little Winter Mute's grown up.
Yeah.
You know, you know what, and, oh, man, should I go, yeah, we've known Winter Mute since he was, like, 15.
Are you serious?
15, 16 years old, now he's graduating from college.
It's been four years since we've been doing Binary Revolution Radio.
He's graduating from college, now.
That trips me out.
Isn't it, doesn't it?
He's been on the air for four years.
Dude, doesn't it, doesn't it make you feel old?
Kind of, yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah.
Time is crazy.
Four years, we are ending today.
Wow.
Well, and speaking of the youngsters, you know, that's, that's something else I was kind of mentioning earlier, is,
I don't have any beef, like, admitting my limitations, where my holes in my knowledge are.
I try to fill them, I try to learn, but I have no problem learning from just about anybody.
I'm not one of those people that thinks, you know, oh, I'm old guy, wise, I already know it all.
No, I learned a lot, not only from Wintermute, but from another one of our co-hosts, Hack and Slash, who was also 15 when we met him.
Oh, yeah.
You know, and he still pops into the forums on occasion.
He's also went into college and focused on college.
But these are young guys, you know, the young guns, if you will.
These are the next generation, or maybe they are our generation.
We're all, you know, the next generation of hackers, the young people out there that are becoming old folks like us that are accomplishing great stuff as well.
Which is probably, watch this.
I can't imagine what, you know, as a whole, we're going to create.
Yeah, and I was going to say, here's the funniest segue you'll hear all night.
From the young to the old, how about our good friend, Rax?
Oh, he's doing great.
I see him a lot more lately.
We saw him at the BinRev meeting.
Yeah.
He's got various business ventures, you know, smart guys.
He's always thinking about stuff like that.
Showing off the bus at DEF CON, showing off the automobile.
The what?
Oh, short bus.
Yeah, the automobile.
That is a pimp ride.
I think it's a midlife crisis.
Yeah, he actually gave my dad a ride over to our BinRev meeting.
That was awful nice.
Oh, no shit.
Oh, that's cool.
Hopefully, he kept it straight and narrow.
I don't know.
I didn't hear any stories from dad or anything, so I guess everything went well.
I don't know how my dad squeezed in that little car.
But anyway, it's a whole different story.
Rax is definitely around.
You hear from him on a regular basis.
So do I on a fairly regular basis.
So he's definitely still in the scene and still fairly active in a lot of different things and also doing well in life.
You know, he's also on a good, upbeat moment right now.
So that's good.
Yeah, definitely.
And the thing is, he's absolutely changed and grown.
He does.
I don't see him.
I don't know.
I don't want to drop any thoughts, but he's enlightened now.
I should say that.
I don't think it's any secret that he was very Zen, believed a lot in that, and pursues that, and helps keep him grounded, as he says, and helps keep his thoughts together, and it's very healthy for him.
It was on Hack TV, the art of Zen on his bookshelf.
It's something that helps him focus a lot and is very healthy for him.
Right, right.
You know, this next person is actually kind of out of the scene.
And actually, I'll put two of these back to back.
The first one, of course, is both of our mutual friend, the Bland Inquisitor.
Bland's a working man.
Bland's doing the real life thing.
However, you talk to him on a very, very regular basis.
And you guys took that trip to Japan, right?
Yeah, we went to, I'm sure everybody who listens to the show probably may remember.
We pimped the Tokyo.duelsandnew.com plan, and then I went to Tokyo.
And because of that, now I'm taking my life to Paris tomorrow.
So, we, yeah, Bland's doing, he's on the scene, you know, which is absolutely cool.
He still is a technology aficionado, let's say.
Oh, he's still a hacker.
He keeps his skills up.
Yeah.
Well, you know, he can't, you know.
Once a hacker, always a hacker.
It's a state of mind, you know.
He may not like the label, per se, but.
Oh, it so is.
He can't escape it, you know.
Exactly.
He would just be talking about something, and he'd be like, oh, but you do this.
I'm like, dude, you're not doing it.
Exactly.
I'll tell you this.
He drank the Kool-Aid.
He bought a Mac.
Oh, no.
A Mac.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Now, we both got the Mac.
He was a musician, though, and the Mac is very musician-friendly for a lot of music people
like the Mac.
Yeah.
So, apparently, there must be some good software for music on that, so.
Absolutely.
Another person who's kind of been out of the scene is our good friend Logan Five.
I really have, I haven't heard a whole lot from him.
Last time I spoke to Logan, him and his girlfriend were actually considering moving to Germany.
What?
Yeah, but he actually kind of pulled out of the scene because, same thing, focusing on
a job.
He had gotten a new job, and it was taking up a lot of his time, you know, working that
50, 60 hours a week kind of deal, and, you know, focusing, trying to get the real-life,
family-life world working well, which he did.
So, he's doing really well the last time I spoke to him, and I think the last time we
physically saw him was at Hope Five.
Yeah, it's been a long time, and I've heard nothing.
I mean, you know, honestly, I, in my, like, in this romantic fantasy, you know, he was
like, and you'll understand, because I'm my, like, big kaiju fan, the dude he could do,
like, so much, he's so creative.
I just, I always pictured him, he kind of, he ran off to Japan, and he was doing, like,
rubber suit movies, like, you know, making the props and the explosion, you know what I
mean, in the cities that, you know, going with tampons, special effects, you know.
Yep, he's our effects guy, our graphics guy, he was really good at that, and that's a good
takeaway into another person, Cypher X, who was also one of our graphics guys, who got
married, and did the whole real-life thing, so that's kind of why he stepped out of the
scene for a little while.
Well, however, I do email him pretty frequently, semi-frequently, and he's actually been working
on a couple things lately, so I do keep in touch with him, so he's doing well.
And you haven't dropped those things, have you?
Nothing, nope, nope, nothing to drop.
Okay, okay.
Nothing to drop, no hints, no nothing.
Once we, you know.
Moving on.
Yep.
Well, you know, and that's another reason that, you know, it's time for Binary Revolution Radio
to end here with episode 200, is because other things to do, you know, there's other
projects, and, you know.
You know, I don't even think you should say that, that it's ending, it's over.
No, it's like, it's like a new beginning, it's moving on to something else.
Well, the radio show is ending, but, yeah, the radio show may be ending, but the revolution
is continual.
Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It's like, okay, well, that now is just, now resources will go to other projects, you
know?
Exactly, and that's one of the benefits.
That's what I was trying to say, is the benefits are that we will be able to focus on other
projects that we've unfortunately, so we've got so many projects that are in, that
are being worked on right now, and that are, you know, halfway done that we'll be able
to focus on again, so, no, it's definitely a good thing, and, you know, it's not completely
out of the question that maybe somewhere down the road Binary Revolution Radio could come
back, but, I don't know, I feel, I feel like this is pretty good closure.
Episode 200, four years, I feel fulfilled, you know, I do.
I feel like it's, I feel like it's time.
You should be proud of your body of work.
You feel the same way about RFA, I know that.
Yeah, yeah.
Episode 100.
Not quite as, not quite as extensive, but, uh.
Yeah, but the, no, that's, two years of RFA was a pretty long time as well, and that feeling,
you know, you just know when it's time, and, you know, as fun as it is doing it, at some
point you have to reprioritize things, and.
All right.
You know, this is one of those times, I think.
So, I can focus on things like, for example, Hack TV, I haven't, that's not, that's something
I wish I had more time to work on, and something I have not, um, had the time to work on, and,
and one of our co-hosts on the show, Saitu 187, a good friend of mine who helped me get
Hack TV started, should have taught me basically video editing, basic video editing, and taught
me everything I know about it to get started with, and, um, Dr. Zygman came in later and
taught me a lot more, but Saito, he's doing well, he's since been married, a long time
ago, so he's been married for a while now, and I actually still pocket dial him on occasion,
I'll, I'll have my phone in my pocket, and I'll look down, and he's connected for some
reason, I don't know why his name, out of all of the things, comes up, but I must hit
the right buttons to pocket dial him, and I'll go, hey, how you been?
So, that's good.
Um, Voodoo Hal, Voodoo Hal, boy, he was always a good friend, um, I have heard from him lately,
he's doing well, alive and well, he goes to Freaknik, um, I think it's just about every
year, and, uh, try to get to Inner Zone, he's a, you know, a Southeast region kind of guy,
so he can make it to the local cons, but another working man, um, see him pop into IRC occasionally
as well, uh, brilliant guy, brilliant guy, yeah, he doesn't have, again, he doesn't have
a whole lot of time, but yeah, he's popped in, and I've come home to a message, I idle in
there, and I'll come home and see messages from him, or Quine, or somebody will email me,
or message me, and I'm not there to respond, but, um, he's popped in once or twice, and
actually, I spoke to him on the phone, it's been probably a couple months now, but he's
still around, still doing well, and just living life, like all of us, you know?
Yeah, I saw him at a con over a year ago, yeah, uh, yeah, it was really neat hanging out
with him.
Um, let's see, who else, who else, uh, Not Theory, well, Not Theory heard at the top
of the show, so we all know Not Theory's still around, Not Theory is also probably, you
know, one of my absolute best friends in this scene, I talk to him, you know, some weeks
we'll go by talking every single day, you know, but I talk to him a couple times a week
on average, he's, he's one of my good friends, and, um, yeah, he and I are working on some
stuff, uh, right now as well, that hopefully we'll be announcing soon, um, he's a freak,
he's a, he's just a freak, man, he's just, you guys don't even know how much this guy works,
I mean, we couldn't do justice explaining it, right, he works sun up to sun down, and he
doesn't stop when the sun goes down, he works through the night, and he just, oh, man, I
went through, it's, it's because he's been fully cyberized, exactly, I think he's just a
crackhead, and he, yeah, he's got the, he's got a continuous link to the net, exactly, through
this type of brain, so that's, oh, yeah, um, yeah, plus all the crack he smokes, yep,
night of the living base heads, there you go, um, he, oh, my God, it's insane how much
he works, you know, when I was that age, maybe I got away with it, but now, no way, man,
he, he makes me tired hearing him talk about how much he's working on, I get tired just
listening, um, um, you know, this next person on my list, I'm going to save until later, because
that's a longer story, and I'm sure you know who I'm talking about, so, um, MC Frontalot,
MC Frontalot, who actually was on, uh, the first episode of season four, I believe, was
it, Hope number six, or was it the first episode of season three, or four, I forgot, um,
For the fans being cut out, piss me off, yeah, the, uh, the, um, the whole recording of that
presentation got chopped off at the end, that sucked, um, but you know what, he actually
had kind of an appearance on Binary Revolution Radio before that episode, we'd used his music
several times to close out for our closing music, it was actually Blandin Quisseter who
turned me on to him, yeah, yeah, Blandin's always a big champion, and, and back then, you
know, Frontalot barely even had a website up, it was mostly on Song Fight, where he went
out and made a couple things as, uh, you know, just for the fun of it, just, uh, you know,
participating in Song Fight, which Blandin also was into at the time, and, and actually
I was, I used a lot of Song Fight stuff on our closing music, songfight.org, and, uh,
boy, looking at him from then to now, released a second album, you know, good friend of mine,
you know, we host his website, he's doing really, really well, and is, you know, actually
doing the whole Frontalot thing full time now, trying to make that work, so, yeah, he's
in concert, actually, got a, got a picture with him, so.
And, if you would have just stayed a little bit longer, you got some shout-outs, too,
but.
I did?
Yes.
Get out of here.
He was on stage, yes, and he, I, I talked to him, like, five minutes before he went on
that performance.
I told him you guys were in the audience, yeah.
I'm old, so, I, like, staying out past 11 is, like, wow, it's a big deal for me, so.
Yeah, yeah, boy, I know the feeling, it's getting late here now, but, um, oh, speaking of
music, I guess a good segue into Zerl.
I mean, Zerl was on, I was just going to ask you that, what happened to Zerl?
Well, Zerl's, Zerl's alive and well, I don't talk to him frequently, I do email him and
his brother on occasion, um, still hosting their website, they're still, you know, have
it, re-register it, it's still, you know, they're still around, they're still alive.
Zerl was a studying motherfucker, Zerl was all about the school, Zerl was concentrating
and doing stuff, he's probably a doctor by now, to be honest with you.
Right.
You know, he was, it was all about the school, so he kind of let the music thing slide, you
know, we, he'd always been working on, and I, he and I bounced some lyrics back and forth,
even, he even let me try to help out with, um, Hackers and Crackers 2.0, the new version
of the song, but just never quite got around to getting it out there.
He got some lyrics down on paper, but never quite got it recorded.
Did he ever press the CD?
I'm sorry?
Did he ever press the CD?
No, because he didn't really believe in it.
He believed completely that music should be free.
He absolutely thought everything should be out there.
He, the albums, he put them together as albums to be downloaded from the website, but nothing
was ever pressed or sold.
Nope.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Yep.
Uh, let's see, who else?
Oh, another one of my close friends, personal friend I know in real life, ZeroDB.
And I do still talk to him once in a while, whenever I head down to Miami, um, we always
try to get together and go out and have a bite to eat.
Um, he moved as well, which of course is a big deal.
Um, still doing the same job, still as knowledgeable as ever.
I mean, the guy's brilliant.
And actually, funny backstory here, and you'll laugh at this too, because I've always been
somebody who absolutely hated history, can't stand history, don't like the history channel,
whatever, but ZeroDB is a big, a big history buff.
Well, doggone it, I guess it finally rubbed off on me, because I find myself watching a
lot of history stuff now, getting interested in things that never, maybe it's an age thing,
maybe it's just him rubbing off on me, because he really enjoys it, and hearing him tell
me some of these stories, it actually made it interesting for me, I don't know.
Yeah, I think, I think honestly, I just think like smart people are into history, so I'm
just like not down, you know?
Yeah, I think I'm living proof that's not true.
Like boring, it's uh...
Oh, and he, the other thing, he and I, it's kind of in our tradition, we both take a week
of our vacation, head up to New York City for hope every year, so we always go up there,
stay in a hotel in Manhattan somewhere, we do the whole New York thing, we go have a
blast, we go out and you know, do whatever we, we feel like, we'll hit some of the sightseeing
type deals, sometimes we'll just wander the streets of New York City at two, three in
the morning, so we always do that as our biannual tradition, so we should be doing that
this upcoming year, we've already talked about it actually, so looking forward to that.
Also down in South Florida, my friend Cy Pete, he's been on the show a few times, he's
still down in South Florida, he actually came to our, he came to DEFCON this last year and
came to our get together, what we had, that we had over at that, what is that mall, I forget
the name of it, where we had, where I gave the presentation, we probably had about 30
plus people there, so he came to that.
Oh, I don't remember what that's called, not the Metro, that's San Francisco.
Yeah, it's right on the tip of my tongue, I guess it's not important, the name of the
mall.
Okay.
Acidus, Acidus, one of my favorite hosts, one of my good friends, he's actually kind of
fallen off the grid a little bit, I think part of that might be due to engagement slash
married life, I don't know if he's actually, I think he is, I think he's, I'm not sure
if he's officially married, I don't want to say that he is and not
be, but if I say that he's not, is that a worse insult than to say he is?
I know he was on that border, so I don't know if he's gotten married by now, but he's
working a lot, still doing research, he presents all the time at different conferences, and
I actually have not bumped into him for a while and was looking forward to seeing him
at DEFCON, and he did not make it to DEFCON this past year, unfortunately, but still a good
guy, and I've left him a couple of voicemails, so hopefully I'll be hearing from him again
soon, and Decius, also from the ATL, representing Atlanta, representing the down south, he's
still doing security research, we swap emails occasionally, and you know, we usually bump
into each other at conferences, he makes it to most of the same conferences I do, so I
always see him, let's see, how about Buck Dangler, Buster Cheek Spreader, and Mr. Pink, and
who else, what was your alter ego?
I don't remember, I thought that was Buster Hyman.
Buster, no, don't you remember the backstory there, where we did the point episode of
RFA, and we looked up our, well, but at the very end, I don't remember what Bland's name
was in the beginning, but we all picked, you know, we all were randomized, picked our names
or whatever, and then when we went live on there, he changed at the last minute, and had
us both cracking up laughing so bad, that I almost couldn't do the show.
God, that's funny, he's a funny motherfucker.
Yeah, that was good stuff, man, so they've all gone off to the Prawn Retirement home,
I think.
Might be the last we've ever heard of them, unless there's, you know, there's an episode
If that comes in a bag, what?
If there's an episode 69 of a show, you never know, they might come back for a little cameo
or something, but they're off to Prawn Retirement, whatever that means.
I hope that means, oh, I hope that doesn't mean Lemon Party.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's hot.
What about my friend?
I got one, well, I didn't really get it.
I did get people at work, which is great, but what am I, oh, never mind, I'm not even
good, never mind, never mind, move on.
Let's see, move on, how about another?
All I can say is that, you know what, being in the hacker community is wonderful, it's beautiful
being, you know, kind of, you know, you're familiar with the internet, all of them,
and the Global and the Regional, so you already know about things like Goatzee, Tough Girl,
Lemon Party, Spurs.
I am so turned on right now.
S.E.A., all that stuff, glass coffee tables, you know what I'm saying?
It's like, you're hardened, you're hardened.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm hardened all right.
Oh, that was like an underhand.
That was like a softball right there.
Oh, man.
You know what?
We still have fun in the show right up to the final episode.
You've got to admit that.
We've always had fun in the show.
Absolutely.
Why do I do it?
Exactly.
You know, and that's certainly not the reason we're ending the show because I'm still having fun doing the show every time.
El Diablo, another friend of mine from Miami.
He and I co-founded the DC305 Miami DEFCON meeting.
He's doing well.
I talk to him occasionally.
I haven't heard from him recently.
I don't know if he's changed numbers or whatever, but I'm sure he'll get back in touch with me.
But I run into him at conferences, and we run in some of the same circles.
We have some mutual friends in common, so I'm sure I'll catch back up with him very soon.
But definitely somebody that I know is around and is doing well.
Let's see.
Natus.
Natus, of course.
We all know Natus.
Natus is great.
Natus is running this old, broke-down site called Old School Freak.
Ghetto.
No, he's been doing a great job running Old School Freak, I think.
But I guess that's really your determination to make.
Oh, absolutely.
That's great.
He always has good content.
I'm just, wow.
It's amazing.
Yeah, it's still doing well.
Still lots of people visiting the site.
Still putting up content.
Oh, yeah.
Natus is just a hustler, man.
Natus is hustling on a daily basis.
He's rolling with the tennis chain and the...
Yeah.
Hey, Natus is...
Natus knows how to dress, right?
Natus is living large.
I was totally...
Dude, he had like girls putty in his hand.
I set him up.
It was...
Anyway.
Maybe I didn't set him up.
I remember.
Hey, Natus is living large and chilling like a villain.
That's right.
Oh, here's one of my all-time favorites.
My homegirl, Ilanka.
Oh, so nice.
One of my favorite guests on the show.
I can never say enough nice things to do justice for her.
She's just such a good human being, you know?
And that's so much more important than everything else in the world to me.
You know?
So many...
Yeah, yeah.
She's really nice.
I met her the one time at DEFCON.
She's really nice.
That's probably one of the things that's most disappointing and that hurts me the most in my heart, you know, in my soul,
is to meet somebody who's brilliant, but it's just an ass.
They just waste it and they just...
Whether it's elitism or...
I mean, it's just...
It hurts my soul.
You could be so much more if you just would get the attitude in the right place.
You could accomplish so much.
And boy, Ilanka is the definition of a good person who's accomplishing great things.
She was on...
I don't know if you saw this.
She was on one of my favorite shows, Nova Science Now.
She had a segment on Kryptos there.
I listen to Nova Science Now on podcast now for a long time.
It's one of my favorites.
She was on the new TV show that started out.
I'm so jealous of that.
So she's definitely doing a lot of stuff.
She's still around and definitely love talking to her.
All right.
Here's...
I'm getting up against it.
Uh-oh.
All right.
Well, here.
Let's do...
We got a small handful here and I'll let you do this one, of course, Slip Mode.
Good friend of ours, but that's your boy Slip Mode.
How's he doing?
Yeah, he's doing well.
I have to say he's in meetings.
He's got, you know, he's got life.
He's got work.
He's kind of a, you know, big wig and all.
All that does cons just...
And he's a pimp.
He's like Nottis.
He's like...
He's always...
He's like West Coast.
He's like Nottis West.
Yeah.
He's definitely the pimp, man.
He's definitely the pimp.
Yeah.
The pimp of the crew.
Yeah.
Virgil.
Virgil's another good friend.
He's doing research.
He was in the news recently for his Wikipedia, finding what companies are doing, what edits
the Wikipedia.
That broke big news.
He always...
That's him.
We were just talking about that.
Yeah.
He always breaks big news things.
He's in New Mexico, too.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
He's out there doing some serious hardcore research and nanotechnology and biometrics and stuff
like...
Not biometrics.
Biotechnology or something.
And yeah, he's into some deep shit, man.
I'm telling you.
Two quick ones here.
Droops and Savant, both brand new fathers, brand new daddies, both baby girls.
Or actually, no, I take that back.
I'm sorry.
Savant actually had a baby boy.
Droops had the baby girl.
What?
Savant within the last 24, 48 hours.
So congrats to both of them.
Really?
Yep.
Wow.
Yep.
So I don't even think...
Yeah.
I'm sure Savant probably still hasn't slept yet.
So congrats to them.
Both good friends.
They're both doing well.
Talk to them frequently.
Dr. Zygman, I mentioned earlier, I actually bumped into him at the BR561 meeting a week or
two ago.
So he seems to be doing well and took some time off for some personal stuff that seems to
be doing okay.
To Biz from the BR561.
Talk to him all the time.
We've been friends in real life.
We actually used to work together somewhere.
So I know him for quite a while.
And when he comes to Orlando to visit, he sticks around.
We get together.
And same thing when I go down there.
Wright Coast from my BR407 meeting.
He hosted some shows before he's alive and well.
I see him every month and sometimes in between.
Actually planning on going out with him, hanging out and checking a shuttle launch sometime soon.
I'm going to try to find the next night launch, get down and watch it.
That's going to be awesome.
And just like three or four more on my list here.
Seal, current forum administrator, of course.
We talk to him daily through the forums.
He's around.
He's been doing a few real life things and putting out documentaries.
That guy's put, he does a lot of stuff too.
He provides a lot of content.
He creates a lot of things.
So he's out there balancing between the real life and the interwebs like we all are.
Documentary is a great art form, by the way.
Yeah, yeah.
And Jason Scott.
Yeah, Jason Scott's worth mentioning too.
Speaking of documentary.
With the PBS documentary.
He's been on the show before as well.
Can I tell you this?
I've got a small story.
I'll take this time.
Okay.
I saw him at DEF CON before last.
And I only had a certain amount of money in my pocket.
I said, hey, give me one of those documentaries.
He gave it to me for that money.
He's like, yeah, of course.
Sure, here you have it.
I walked it.
Amazing.
Totally amazing.
Guess what I did?
For the fucking double A's.
I saw him at this DEF CON and I gave him the balance.
I said, that was amazing.
Here you go.
Here's the rest.
He was really appreciative.
Because guess what?
He made great content and I was willing to pay for it.
Right, right.
And he's another one that falls under that genuinely good person category.
Oh, yeah.
He's good people.
And, yeah, I bumped into him.
But actually, we talked quite a bit at this past DEF CON.
And I made sure to go out of my way to go see his talk.
I always try to go catch talks of all of our friends when they're talking.
And so many of them speak nowadays.
All these people have blown up.
Verbal.
Verbal, man.
Verbal's a business man.
B-I-D-N-E-S.
Bidness.
Bidness man.
And so he's doing the whole business man and real life thing.
So he hasn't been around too much lately.
I don't really hear too much from him.
But I've heard through the grapevine that he's doing well.
So good luck to him on that.
Quine, who was one of my BR-407 regulars here.
He moved up to Boston for a new job doing well.
He's another one I get an occasional ping in IRC.
But by the time I get home from work and ping him back, he's already logged off.
So he's doing well.
And the last one I have on my list here that's going through the just browsing.
I hope I didn't miss anybody.
We've done the show.
But Booter.
And, of course, Booter's doing well.
I always get together with him when I visit.
You know, I travel for work.
I'll cut through Houston quite a bit and always try to get together with him and grab something to eat.
Go hang out, maybe get an actual meeting of all the Houston guys together.
They're great people.
But I haven't seen him too much lately.
I think, and I don't know, but I think Booter might be on pussy lockdown.
I'm just saying.
He might be locked down.
And you know what?
That's not a bad thing at all.
Dude, you know what?
There'd be only three years of BinRev if Cookie Girl got her way.
Yeah, it would have ended a long time ago.
Cookie Girl story.
Actually, yeah, we talked about that when we went through the recap of the first couple that you haven't heard yet.
So, man, when you listen back to the five-plus-hour show, it looks like, wow, five hours that just hit me.
You're going to hear a lot of good stuff, too, Abdul.
So you'll probably, it'll take you for a little walk down memory lane as well.
Yeah, I can't wait.
Well, listen, let's, I think we're probably time to wrap up the show.
So, I don't know.
Do we want to summarize?
Do we want to beat a dead horse here and talk about, you know, the hacking community?
Should we close out and just, I mean, we both agree, you know, about how great the hacking community is and how there's so many good people in there.
You know, what more can we say, really?
I mean.
Nothing.
And I don't think we should, I think we should, you know, we should go out clean.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, and I've avoided bringing up certain names and getting into any drama and controversy because, you know what?
The majority of people that I've met in this scene and the majority of people that I've dealt with are just really good people, very knowledgeable people.
And that's what makes the scene great.
And one of the reasons I've loved doing this radio show for four years.
So thank them.
Thank them.
Thank.
Thank everybody.
I thank everybody.
Anybody that, see, the thing is, this is a, this is maybe outside of this, go, this is one of my life philosophies here.
You know, you learn something from everybody in the world.
Everybody will teach you something.
You can never, ever think otherwise.
You're always going to learn.
There's experiences out there that are always beneficial to you, even the ones that may feel and seem negative or may hurt you in the short run or may, you know, affect you in a way that you didn't want or didn't expect.
But in the long run, you know, I don't know who said the famous quote, but anything that doesn't kill you will make you stronger.
And, you know, I get stronger and stronger every day.
And hopefully I can continue to grow, continue to learn.
And I know with friends like you, Duel, I think we can continue to grow as hackers and as human beings.
And thank you for being on the show.
I appreciate your time.
Oh, yeah.
Thank you.
And your friendship, Tear.
Yeah, that's all I want to say, too.
I just want to thank, I want to thank the community for, you know, letting me talk on them straight up.
That's it.
And Duel, unfortunately, had to go, but...
There was one other person we wanted to talk about on the show and kind of fill in some blanks for that we alluded to earlier, and that person is Decoder.
Now, we went ahead and brought Not Theory back on the show to talk about this because both Not Theory and I are good friends with Decoder, as was Duel.
But we're going to talk about, at least as much as we can, about Decoder's situation.
Now, basically what happened was, in April of 2005, I believe it was, or was it 2004?
No, I guess it's 2005 we're going to go with.
Decoder, well, first of all, Decoder was co-hosted Binary Revolution Radio a few times and was host of Default Radio and had been around the scene for a good little while.
And Decoder was a phone freak, spent a lot of time on conferences and whatnot.
Well, Decoder was a true, fit the true definition of a hacker insofar as he believed in sharing information and writing a lot of text files, getting information out there, sharing numbers, stuff like that.
But apparently, some of the information that he shared, other people didn't think that was information that needed to be shared.
So, he drew some interest because he released some information about something called a DATU unit or a DATU system.
That's D-A-T-U, which stands for Direct Access Test Unit.
Now, Not Theory, can you give us a brief description of what the DATUs are, what they can do?
Yeah, the DATU is a piece of telco equipment made by a company called Harris.
I think it's by Harris.
They make all kinds of, you know, linemen's handsets and crap like that.
In any case, the DATU has a couple of functions, one of which is to help a lineman identify, you know, pairs of phone lines.
So, you can call up the DATU and you can give it a phone number and you can say, put a tone on this line.
So, if you're in an apartment building, you can just very quickly trace down and find what this line is.
The other thing it can do, one of the other things it can do, is it can also disconnect that line.
So, if you're working on it, you can just call the DATU again, give it the phone number,
and it'll disconnect it for five minutes or so, so that you can do your work and not be bothered.
And it's a feature that doesn't work anymore because of the type of switching system it was designed for.
So, that's not really a useful feature anymore.
It's still on the menu, but it doesn't actually do anything.
And then the other thing that it can do is it's got an audio monitor feature.
So, if you're a lineman and you want to, you know, find a spare pair, you want to see if the person whose phone line you're working on is on the phone,
instead of just listening to their phone call and plugging directly into it, you can just dial up to the audio monitor function.
And you can hear whether somebody's on the phone, but it's got kind of this like Donald Duck sound,
so you can't make out what they're saying.
So, it kind of takes the privacy concerns out of linemen's, you know, checking out your line while you're home.
So, those are the main functions that it has.
So, it's basically a utility system that the telcos use to do testing on the lines and whatnot.
Yeah, it's all for maintenance purposes, you know.
And it's not really that exciting a piece of equipment.
But, you know, it's kind of neat that they're all over the place.
And it's interesting to learn what they do and how they can be used to maintain the phone system.
Right, and these are just out there on phone numbers.
You just dial in a phone number like anybody else would.
So, sometimes people will stumble across these, people like phone freaks who like to scan out numbers, blocks of numbers.
Well, Decoder wrote a text file with a bunch of these numbers on there and released them
and pointed out the fact that these systems normally have a password to protect them,
a PIN number, a basic password numeric, obviously.
And there's a tendency that many of these would not be set from the factory defaults.
Well, some people didn't like that information being out there.
Apparently, they were perfectly fine with leaving everything on default, but they didn't like people finding out about it.
So, some investigations ensued and some people started looking into some things and all this kind of swirling around Decoder.
And, again, don't want to go into too much detail because it's still some ongoing stuff that we don't want to go into.
But, long story short, he was accused of a few things, accused of releasing this information.
And I guess the biggest thing that made it serious and that made it dangerous for Decoder from a legal standpoint
and from a criminal standpoint is that the allegation was that these DATU systems,
because of what they do and what this utility allows, that these things could be used to,
as Nott Theory said earlier, can be used to disable lines temporarily as part of normal utilities
and normal things that a telco engineer or someone out working on the system might need.
It was alleged that this function or this functionality of this feature could be used against the 911 system,
the actual infrastructure, 911 system.
So, that's what made it a big deal and that's what made it dangerous.
That's something we've never talked about before.
But that was really the big issue of the whole thing.
And it was alleged that anyone who had access to these systems could attack 911 infrastructure.
Right. Now, let's get a couple of facts straight here.
Not that you've got anything wrong. Everything says it's actually correct.
But just a few things that are missing that were kind of omitted from the original discussion.
Decoder's research into this, and I'll call it research because that's really what it was,
is really follow-up research.
There's actually already a 2600 article that lists almost all of these DATU numbers
and the fact that they're on default passwords.
The other thing to keep in mind is that when you get the DATU manual from Harris,
it says very explicitly in one of the very, very, very early chapters,
that as soon as you get this piece of equipment, you should take off the default password.
Like one of the first installation steps, obviously missed on hundreds of pieces of equipment,
if not thousands of pieces of equipment, by the phone company.
So two very important things to keep in mind there.
So this system has been open for quite some time.
Another interesting piece of information to know is that the feature that disables phone lines
is documented in the test equipment's manual as only working on either step-by-step switches
or crossbar switches, which are really, really old pieces of switching equipment
that don't really exist in the U.S. anymore.
So the ability to disable something like 911, they always accuse that, oh, yeah,
you could shut off 911.
Well, further casting down on that is the fact that when you call a DATU,
there's three ways you can enter phone numbers.
You can enter a four-digit phone number, you can enter a seven-digit number,
or you can enter a 10-digit number.
911 is none of those things.
Granted, there is a backdoor number that will get you to 911,
but it's not what we call plain-on telephone service.
It's not a copper line, and it's not on step-by-step.
If it was on step-by-step and it was just the copper line, you could disable it.
But 911 always has T1 trunks, digital lines, which cannot be accessed by DATUs,
and copper lines as backups, which can be accessed by DATUs but cannot be disabled
on modern phone equipment.
So even if you were on a step-by-step switch, and even if you knew the backdoor number to 911,
you could only disable one of the many, many, many lines that they had going in there,
which would not disable 911.
So the idea that somebody could get this into their head and they could disable 911 using a DATU is just completely ridiculous.
We did a lot of research into this.
We looked through the Harris test manuals for so long,
and everything we could find points to the fact that there's no possible way you could do this
unless 911 only has one copper telephone line and is on a step-by-step system.
Now, 911 doesn't exist on step-by-step anyway,
but the fact of the matter is if you were on one of those old switches,
you could disable the police department's phone,
but, again, only if they only had one phone line and only if it was all analog,
which doesn't exist anywhere in the U.S. today.
So I hope that kind of clears up at least the research that I've done into this whole situation
and how ridiculous it is people that don't know anything about the phone system
to just accuse and say that, oh, yeah, you could do this without any proof,
and that causes all of the trouble that's been caused for Decoder.
And to reiterate, there's two important things that I want to emphasize to jump out of that.
One, technically what they say the danger is technically is not possible.
It does not work that way.
So it's simply false.
It's a false pretense to begin with.
Secondly, it's basically punishing or attempting to punish an action that didn't happen.
You could do this.
You have the ability to do that.
Note, and let me restate, it was not done.
This did not happen.
Nobody did what they're alleging.
Their allegations are that it could be done with that information,
and not that anyone, Decoder or anyone, did that,
only that it could be done, the information that he had.
So that's two things that are very scary to hear
because the outcome of this was that Decoder was, if I had charges, filed against him.
Again, we don't want to go into too much detail.
We're trying to give everybody as much knowledge because I know it's been a mystery for several years now.
Basically, the way it all shook out between all the court cases and the lawyers
and the going and showing up and dealing with that whole process,
it all worked out where Decoder did spend one year and a day in federal prison,
served his sentence.
It has been a couple years now, so he served his sentence,
and he is now out.
I speak to him on a regular basis, both Not Theory and I, still good friends with him,
and have been through the whole time.
We communicated with him when he was in prison.
I sent him copies of BinRev magazine and articles and lots of other stuff,
and he sent stuff back to me.
Not Theory dropped off the line there.
I'm sure his cell phone died.
But, again, the long and short of it is,
is we wanted to let everybody know that Decoder is doing just fine,
and we do talk to him on occasion,
and he's trying to live life, basically, after going through that scenario.
So that is, if you can possibly imagine being accused of something
and being punished for something that you could have done
that might have happened, but actually, technically was impossible.
So if you can imagine yourself being in a scenario like that,
that is what Decoder went through.
So, again, he is out now, and there is still some ongoing stuff,
as you can imagine, going through that,
and those accusations don't go away right away,
so people are still watching and involved in your life on a daily basis.
So he's trying to live life, work.
I think his exact quote he told me earlier when we talked about this,
he said that he's still smoking, like a chimney,
and actually I'm going to give him a call here on my cell,
and let's see if we can get him on the phone briefly.
I know that he's not exactly, and I hope the microphone's going to pick this up,
but I know that he's not exactly accessible these days,
but Decoder, welcome to Binary Revolution Radio.
This is episode number 200, the final episode,
and I was hoping you could maybe give a couple of words about the,
since this is the final episode of the show.
What episode number?
This is episode 200.
Maybe I'll get around for listening to this when I catch up with the other 139 episodes that I haven't listened to.
Wait a minute, what are you saying here?
I don't know. What the hell are you?
Are you really fucking putting me on your fucking stupid show?
Um, should I not?
I don't know. Whatever.
What the hell did you want, man? I'm fucking busy.
Um, I just thought maybe you'd want to be on this last episode of the show.
Wow.
Was that wrong?
Hello? Hello?
Yeah, who's on it with you?
Yeah, anyway, who's on it with you?
Um, Not Theory is on?
Yeah.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Anyway, do you want me to tell me what you want? What do you want?
Is that it? Is that all you're going to, is that it?
What?
I mean, I'm having you on this final episode of the show.
What do you want me to do for you? Fuck!
I don't know. Don't you want to tell the people anything?
Want a joke?
Please, no.
What are you going to do? Fucking perform for you?
Like a fucking monkey?
I'd like to hear a knock-knock joke, actually. I really like those.
Yeah? A knock-knock joke?
Yeah, a knock-knock joke.
Alright, knock-knock.
Who's there?
Fucking me. I'm outside your house.
Fucking, which building is it?
Alright, I'll be down for a minute.
I don't even know what building it is. I'm just going to pull over.
It's a dock.
Oh, I can't drop my docks on the air.
Alright, well then, I guess we'll, I guess we'll have to end it there then, but, um...
It really has a fact. This is really 200 episodes of your fucking super show.
You're still doing it, by the way?
200 episodes. This is the last...
I didn't even know you were still doing it. I thought, like, fucking...
That it was dead or something.
Yeah, well...
It is as of today. I think you just killed it.
Oh, good. I'm glad.
Alright, well, I'm going to go ahead and put it in the ground, but, uh...
Thanks for coming on here for a few seconds and being on the show.
Yeah, definitely.
And, uh... I'm sure everybody likes you.
I don't know. It's the same fucking act.
Nope.
Not this time.
Nope, not this time. You're right about that.
Alright, guys. I'll talk to both of you later.
I'll put it out and say, Decoder killed the radio star.
Thanks.
So, that was good. We, uh, really wanted to, uh, bring you up to speed on a lot of the people
that you've heard over the, the past several years of doing the radio show, particularly.
We know, uh, people haven't heard from Decoder in a while, so hopefully you heard that.
Of course, that was recorded, uh, many years ago, not recently, no matter how that may have sounded.
So, throw that disclaimer in there.
And, um, you know, I guess we'll use that to kind of segue into our closing shout-outs
that we have always done on the show, and today is no exception.
So, the shouts obviously go to everyone we've just mentioned and singled out as recent co-hosts of the show,
but there's also a lot of others as well that we deserve to, that deserve to get some shout-outs tonight.
If I missed anybody, it was certainly not intentional.
I threw together the list quickly.
Shouts to Zerl and Old Hat Nat, of course, to Rant Radio.
Um, to pound BINREV, everybody and pound BINREV on irc.binrev.net,
or even back in the old days on Freenode, on Esper, on all the channels that we've kind of grown and outgrown over the years.
Tom, to the Agents of the Revolution, um, all DDP members, past, present, and future, of course.
You know, yeah, I, I apologize if I've missed anybody.
It's certainly not a slight.
There's so many great people in this community, and I, I just couldn't remember everybody.
Um, but, like I said earlier to Duel, I, I really do learn something from everybody.
Uh, everybody has something that you can learn from them.
It doesn't matter what their age is.
It doesn't matter what their skill level is.
People have different thought processes, and a lot of people know things that you don't know.
And, you know, the sooner people kind of swallow their pride a little bit, put away their ego,
and, and realize that there's something to learn from everybody, then, you know, you'll grow as a person that way.
And I've grown a lot, thanks to all the people that we've listed, and some that I've probably overlooked.
Also, as we wrap up the show, um, you know, I appreciate everybody that's been listening all this time.
What we've put together is, uh, we set up a phone number to record voicemail, to record messages.
So, if you do want to call in and share your thoughts, your experiences on Binary Revolution Radio over the years, whatever you, you know,
maybe it motivated you to work on a project.
Maybe it motivated you that you heard a topic we talked about, or maybe something we said you hated so much
that it made you, um, go out and start your own show, or start something else, or start an anti-stank dog.
Whatever, any thoughts or anything that, you know, any memories of Binary Revolution Radio,
anything that you want to share or want to put out there, uh, the phone number is 407.
It's an Orlando number here in Florida, 407-347-6087.
That number, again, is 407-347-6087.
So, call in, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Again, this is our last show, so we won't be able to, um, have these on, like we didn't do any email this episode.
There won't be another episode to do this.
Maybe we'll collect them all and do a special episode in the future, or, uh, some other show,
or gather them and put them, make them available somewhere.
But, please, I would love to hear your thoughts on, on, you know, the four years that we put out there.
And, um, you know, did we do any good?
Was it worthwhile?
Was it something that, um, you know, you enjoyed?
Then, um, by all means, leave your thoughts and, and whatever you want to say on that number.
Um, hosting for Binary Revolution Radio comes from caro.net.
That's C-A-R-O dot N-E-T.
They've been very good to us, uh, very recently.
Uh, lots of, um, bandwidth and, uh, server growing really, really fast, really quickly.
And they've been very helpful in helping us maintain our uptime and keep working, keep the site working, and things like that.
So, we're appreciative to them.
Um, site of the week, um, I guess there's really no point doing a site of the week.
Uh, binrev.com.
B-I-N-R-E-V dot com is our site of the week.
Because even though Binary Revolution Radio may be ending, the revolution will continue, and the revolution will be digitized.
So, binrev.com, site of the week, where you're going to find, you know, all of the past episodes of Binary Revolution Radio.
It's kind of a central hub or portal to all of the projects we've worked on from, you know, most people are very familiar with the forums.
And if you're not, go check those out for sure.
That's where most of the action is.
Um, all the other projects, most of them are linking from there.
So, um, definitely check that out.
It's not going anywhere.
Hopefully, I'm not going anywhere.
I may not be as vocal, obviously, without the radio show.
But I plan on being around and working on projects.
So, it's not like I'm dying or anything like that.
Hopefully, I won't be completely disappearing off the face of the earth.
Um, let's see.
Well, normally, we do the email address.
Um, not really a point in doing that.
Again, uh, we do appreciate feedback.
Uh, our old email was radio at binrev.com.
But, um, again, probably won't be using that.
That'll be taken off the grid sometime in the future.
But, you can feel free to email me personally.
Email me directly.
Stankdog at stankdog.com.
That's S-T-A-N-K-D-A-W-G.
Not D-O-G.
D-A-W-G at stankdog.com.
So, you can always contact me there.
Um, closing music for tonight.
You know, we can't end the show any different than we started the show.
You know, we've got to use zero dedication to the Hackers and Crackers.
I'm going to probably throw in the Matrix remix of this.
Which I think is a perfect way to close out the show, the season, the whole kit and caboodle ending with episode 200.
So, um, that's just about going to do it.
You know, I, I, the only thing I can really wrap up by saying is, you know, again, if I overlook anybody, I assure you it's unintentional.
So, this show would not have been anything without the participation and the support of everybody out there listening.
The show was never about me or never about my ego.
It was never about the numbers or the downloads.
It was never about anything other than my love of hacking and desire to share that with everyone else and let others share their world with me.
That's what this show's always been about.
Um, the show was input and feedback from our listeners, emails, co-hosts, rants, flames, a few dick and fart jokes mixed in there.
It was fun, it was technical, a little bit bizarre, strange and weird at times.
But, most importantly, the show was real.
It's always been real from episode one to now.
You know, sometimes it may be corny.
Sometimes people may not believe what I say or think that I'm, um, trying to spin something or trying to make something out to be, you know.
So, I've always spoken my mind.
I've always spoken my heart.
Um, I've always enjoyed it.
And I've learned so much doing this show from everybody.
And hopefully, everyone else was able to grow along with me over these past four years.
So, I appreciate all of the listeners and all the support.
But, that's going to bring us to the end of the show.
Episode 200 in the books, ladies and gentlemen.
Bringing episode 200 to an end.
Bringing season four to an end.
And bringing Binary Revolution Radio to its end.
And, also, as we close out the show, one other thing that's going to be a little different is we can't really honestly tell you that we'll be back next week.
Same hack time, same hack channel.
But, I do want to reemphasize and show my appreciation and my thanks to everyone who put up and listened to me for four years.
My ranting, my complaining, my whining, bitching, moaning, taking in, you know, all that is the world of hacking, you know.
You love it.
There's so much to it.
There's so much that I enjoy about it.
And, that's never going to change.
And, hopefully, somehow, sometime throughout these past four years, other people have felt the same way while listening to the radio show that I have.
So, for that, I thank everybody.
And, to close out the show this week, like I said, we're going to have to do it very simply and say thank you to everyone for listening.
I truly appreciate your time.
Goodbye.
Bye.
Tell them a world without you.
A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries.
A world where anything is possible.
Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.
Oh, man, that was hard.
I didn't think that would be that hard.
Four years.
Who would have ever thought?
Four years.