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SHERMAN SKOLNICK INTERVIEW -- Sept. 2, 1994
 
Sherman Skolnick was interviewed on *Radio Free America* 
(Shortwave, 5.810 mHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on September 2, 1994. 
Mr. Skolnick is a veteran investigative reporter from Chicago and 
founder of the "Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts" in 
that city. Following is my transcription of that interview. 
Host/Interviewer is Tom Valentine.
 
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[Awesome sounds of John Phillip Souza's "Stars and Stripes Forever"]
 
ANNOUNCER:
It's *Radio Free America*, the talk show for intelligent 
Americans, with your host, Tom Valentine.
 
*Radio Free America* is brought to you by *The Spotlight* [CN -- 
Note: Throw mud here.] Call 1-800-522-6292 for your subscription.
 
And now, the newspaper that "tells it like it is" presents Tom 
Valentine.
 
 
TOM VALENTINE:
Somebody sent me a thing that says, "Forget the Alamo. Remember 
Waco." I don't know if Texans would go for that one! But we do, 
must, remember Waco.
 
Hey everybody! Welcome back, to *Radio Free America*.
 
Right now we're going to remember something that... almost as bad 
as Waco. Waco had 90 citizens killed by the feds, I believe. A 
total of 90, with 4 federal officers killed. In the Inslaw case, 
we have about 42 to 45 people killed! Surreptitiously. Quietly. 
Controversially.
 
I am going to introduce those of you who are new to this show to 
an old friend and old guest of *Radio Free America*. Every time 
things seem to be slowing down, you just make a call to Chicago 
and talk to the man who founded the uh, "Citizens for Clean Up 
the Courts" [Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts, here 
also referred to as CCCC], the "Commission to Clean Up the 
Courts". And that's Sherman Skolnick. And you bring him on, and 
he is 24 hours a day, believe it or not, 24 hours a day that he 
and his sources (they're all over the country) [are] digging into 
the corruption that goes on in this country.
 
And I want to welcome you back to *Radio Free America*, Sherman.
 
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK:
...my pleasure to be on your show again, Tom.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Hey! How's your television show goin'? I understand you're still 
one of the most popular things in Chicago...
 
 
SKOLNICK:
...public access channels here, and our Monday night show, which 
is a non-commercial show, out-polls three of the commercial 
channels. So some of the commercial TV stations in Chicago are 
not happy with us!
 
 
VALENTINE:
Well they oughtta learn that the people are sick and tired of the 
pablum and would like to get something genuine and something to 
sink their teeth into and make them think! And that's what you're 
doing.
 
Now, the reason you're talking today is that we talked in the 
past about the Inslaw scandal and the cover up by the United 
States government when they assigned the Inslaw investigation to 
a "special counsel" and they named a federal judge that you are 
very familiar with up in Chicago. And that's Judge Nicholas Bua 
[pronounced BOO-ahh]. Correct?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yes. For those that may not be familiar with the Inslaw thing: 
that was a super-duper software, designed originally to be used 
to keep track of the caseloads of federal prosecutors. But it was 
later modified and used so that, through satellites and others, 
they keep track of people worldwide!
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes. It's a great spy system and uh, oh just all kinds of good 
things.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Well it was given, secretly, to spy agencies all over the world: 
the Iraqi secret police, the Israeli secret police, the Mossad, 
Sweden, France...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Canada. The Canadian Royal Mounties.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
And the ones that *designed* the thing didn't know that, contrary 
to their copyright, it was being sold or given away in violation 
of law! *And* it was done by persons connected with the Justice 
Department! [Unclear] the buyer of the original software, which 
was designed (as I said) to keep track of federal prosecutors' 
caseloads.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Good ol' Ronald Reagan outfit... Edwin Meese.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
But what happened was that in 1991, a federal grand jury was set 
up in Chicago. And the special counsel to it was a recently 
resigned federal district judge, Nicholas J. Bua. The Justice 
Department put him up to do something which most of us this 
afternoon would consider rather foolish -- and that was, for the 
Justice Department to investigate themselves. [laughs] You know, 
on the surface you could see that there is something wrong with 
that.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
And what happened is, they brought in witnesses from all over the 
world...
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right, let me stop you right here and ask you: Is it true 
that when you want something "fixed" and you need a good "fixer", 
you can't do better than to go to the city of Chicago and get a 
genuine "fixer"?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
[laughs] Well, I know what you're getting at, Tom: in other 
words, if you want to "fix" a case. *Our* [CCCC] opinion is that 
federal cases, federal litigation, is *transferred* from other 
places in the United States to Chicago, because here is "the big 
fix".
 
 
VALENTINE:
The *big* fix. Now. Is Judge Bua, is he kind of a rookie at this 
sort of thing? He's never "fixed" anything before?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Well, in the 1970s he was a state court judge, and he was given 
the case that involved relatives of those that died in a plane 
crash in Chicago, where, among others, 12 Watergate figures died.
 
 
VALENTINE:
We'll cover, we'll talk about that, too. My guest is Sherman 
Skolnick. Sherman is the director of the Committee to Clean Up 
the Courts. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.
 
[...commercial break...]
 
All right. We are back, live. My guest is Sherman Skolnick of the 
Committee to Clean Up the Courts, in Chicago. We're gonna be 
discussing the Inslaw scandal.
 
Many Americans, I'm amazed, just don't understand that scandal. 
But in a nutshell (Sherman, I don't want to spend a lot of time 
on this, filling in so they have the background. I want to get to 
the latest news. But) briefly, the Justice Department: It has 
been proved, on the record, that the Justice Department *stole* 
Inslaw from the Hamiltons.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
That's enforced their company, Inslaw, into bankruptcy. They made 
what the layman would call a "counter claim" against the Justice 
Department. And the bankruptcy judge made an extensive trial and 
findings that there was deceit and fraud by the Justice 
Department, in stealing this highly complicated software created 
by the Hamiltons...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes. And it was converted by people high up in the Reagan 
administration and friends of Ronald Reagan into a money maker 
around the world.
 
Now Sherman, one other thing: One of the most... One of the *few* 
still respected people in Washington would be Elliot Richardson. 
Would you say that's true?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yeah. He was the former attorney general under Nixon, who was 
forced out in what was known as the "Saturday Night Massacre" {1} 
in October '73, when they were investigating the Nixon White 
House. And Nixon "had their heads chopped off", so to speak.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Well Elliott Richardson is one of the few Washington insiders 
that I would want to have and would actually listen to and would 
believe 90 percent of what he says.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Uh now he has been, he and his law associates, lawyer associates, 
have been the attorneys for the Hamiltons -- the Inslaw company.
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right. He represents the people who were wronged by the 
Justice Department.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right.
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right. Now when Judge Bua was called upon (we'll get back to 
Bua and your years of experience with him later), when Judge Bua 
was called upon to whitewash the...
 
 
SKOLNICK:
But he resigned as a federal district judge and he was appointed 
by the Bush administration to, for the Justice Department to 
investigate themselves. And he was the special counsel to a 
special Inslaw federal grand jury in Chicago.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah. The "fix" was in. O.K.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
We became very knowledgeable about it, because I and my 
associates volunteered as paralegals to assist one of the grand 
jury witnesses who was in Chicago in jail!
 
 
VALENTINE:
He was also a rather well-known fella and he'd been a guest on 
this show. His name was Michael Riconosciuto.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. Who claims that because he "fingered" the Justice 
Department, they "framed" him.
 
We had four-and-a-half months debriefing him. And we found out so 
much, that *we* were, we were supposed to be, ourselves, 
witnesses before the grand jury.
 
And when the grand jury met, I and an associate of mine were 
outside the grand jury's unmarked door while the forelady of the 
jury was coming in. And this is not too well known, but every 
U.S. citizen has the right to approach the foreperson of a grand 
jury and offer testimony. You can't ask what they're doing behind 
the unmarked door! But you can offer testimony.
 
And I did that, and Bua was there and *blocked* us, but then sat 
us down and tried to "sweet talk" us for half an hour that we 
should withdraw our charges that 41 witnesses had been murdered. 
He promised us that between that point, which was November '92, 
and the inauguration of the new President, Clinton, that he 
didn't think there'd be any more witnesses that were "done in".
 
 
VALENTINE:
Now, you know, you've told this story on the show before, and I 
always find it fascinating. I would guess that Nicholas J. Bua is 
the kind of guy that *loves* a good challenge and a word game. 
And he sat down there, face to face with you guys, knowing you're 
worthy adversaries, and I bet he enjoyed it!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
For a half hour, outside the grand jury door, he sat there and 
talked to us. Uh, saying... He made us a "social bet". He says, 
"Not a business bet. A social bet." He says, "I bet you a 
luncheon that between this date" (which was November 18th, I 
believe. '92) "and inauguration day" (which was to be January 
20th in '93) "that there would be no... there wouldn't be a 42nd 
witness murdered."
 
And we held up a copy of the London paper and said, "Look at 
this. Ian Stewart Sparrow has just been murdered. He was one of 
your witnesses." And I says, "We have..." And you know a funny 
thing?! We already had a lawsuit pending against Bua as a 
defendant! And there's the defendant, sitting, talking with us, 
trying to "sweet talk" us. And he says... I says, "Well the ones 
I accused you in court of being involved in the murdering of the 
witnesses is part of your FBI team, a Chicago FBI agent."
 
He says, "Yes. He's part of our team."
 
I said, "WELL WHAT ARE YOU DOIN' ABOUT IT!!" We have charged in 
court that he's goin' around murdering the witnesses!"
 
He said, "I betcha that by January 20th there won't be any 
witnesses."
 
 
VALENTINE:
There won't be any other murders? Or they're gonna "get" all the 
witnesses?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
The point is, he issued his report stating that there was nothing 
wrong with the Justice Department's use of Inslaw. That a key 
witness that was murdered was actually a suicide -- Danny 
Casolaro. And, in other words, he whitewashed the entire thing. 
He entered an extensive report saying that, "There was no fraud. 
There was no deceit." And that the Justice Department, in 
investigating themselves, didn't find anything. [laughs] Well...
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right. What did you expect when it was sent to Chicago...
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Well wait a minute!
 
 
VALENTINE:
I've gotta take a break. But you remember what we're gonna wait a 
minute on. We'll be right back.
 
My guest is Sherman Skolnick. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio 
Free America*.
 
[...commercial break...]
 
O.K.! We are back, live, and Sherman Skolnick is my guest!
 
And Sherman, you said, "Wait a minute," and so we did. We're 
waiting a minute. What were you going to say?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Well, in response to Bua's grand jury report, which he publicized 
through the press -- he befriended some of the "news fakers" as 
we call 'em, in Washington and a few other places.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes. The "news fakers" of Chicago didn't even *cover* that grand 
jury hearing, by the way.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. [laughs] We were the only journalists that were talking 
about it, on our television show, during the whole time! The 
*[Chicago] Tribune* and the rest of 'em pretended that nothing 
was happening.
 
Elliott Richardson, the Inslaw attorney, filed a rebuttal to 
Bua's report early in July of '93. Then a strange event occurred, 
a week after the rebuttal: White House aide Vincent Foster, jr. 
was found dead. *Now*, because of what happened thereafter, we 
realize that there was a connection. Elliott Richardson then 
filed, in addition to his rebuttal to Bua's grand jury report in 
February of '94. And *there* is outlined that they have witnesses 
whose names they're fearful of mentioning to the Justice 
Department, because the witnesses would be murdered, like others.
 
*And*, Elliott Richardson contends that there is a *secret* 
*unit* in the Justice Department, in a very... heavily secure 
section, in with O.S.I., the Office of, uh... Strict, of uh...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Special Investigations.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right! Who are supposed to be "Nazi hunters".
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
But that these other ones are in that same section, and that 
*they* *go* *around* *murdering* *witnesses*!
 
 
VALENTINE:
Now that's a hell of a thing! You've alleged that on this show, 
and we have had Mike Fuller of Virginia and Washington, D.C. 
allege it on that show, and a couple of others! But *now* Elliott 
Richardson has alleged it in this...
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yeah! And he said that he has witnesses in key positions that 
confirm that. And that among others, that this, that the special 
murder team, in the Justice Department, among those that they 
murdered was Danny Casolaro, who was looking into the Inslaw 
thing. And Casolaro, a journalist, was working on a book in which 
he claimed the Inslaw thing was "The Octopus", that it was tied 
in to the October Surprise, Iran-Contra, and numerous other 
diabolical...
 
 
VALENTINE:
But especially BCCI! [Bank of Credit and Commerce International]
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes. We don't want to forget that one. We want the listeners to 
all get that, those 3 letters, 4 letters, that's a 4 letter word: 
BCCI.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. The Bank of Credit and Commerce International. That's a 
secret. By the way, I don't want to digress, but we did a program 
recently on television for an hour, pointing out that BCCI, 
contrary to what the press says, has *not* gone under! They are 
operating under another name and they're buying out banks in 
Chicago through their holding company, Pinnacle Bank Group, which 
is tied in with Jimmy Carter's people which is where that BCCI 
started from in the beginning! Bert Lance and those people.
 
And by the way, one of the reasons for what we believe is the 
murder of Vincent Foster, jr., is that he and his law partner, 
Hillary Rodham Clinton, arranged secretly for BCCI to have a 
great presence in the United States. And evidently, Danny 
Casolaro was on to that.
 
But getting back to Elliott Richardson's additional rebuttal to 
Bua's grand jury report -- He said there's a secret unit in the 
Justice Department, and *as* *a* *front*, they're operating 
through 100 commercial companies, as a front. But their main 
business is to go around murdering witnesses!
 
Now that is very interesting...
 
 
VALENTINE:
It *is*, because you said that many years ago.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yeah! And we brought a federal lawsuit against Bua, and his 
colleagues in the courthouse bottled us up and wouldn't allow any 
hearing. But we contended that there were, at that time, which is 
the fall of '93, of '92, that there were 40, over 40 grand jury 
witnesses murdered!
 
So I mean, what kind of a report could he [Bua] issue to the 
grand jury if over 40 witnesses were murdered! I mean, the thing 
is... It's outrageous! And...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Well it was a farce!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right! And we made it all a matter of record.
 
Now what's interesting *now* is, in Chicago, the papers here have 
been covering an embezzlement scandal. The federally funded 
Chicago Housing Authority [CHA], which builds buildings for poor 
people to live in, you know?
 
 
VALENTINE:
The famous Robert Taylor Homes, Cabrini Green, and so forth.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right! Their pension fund, the CHA pension fund, has been 
embezzled out of $12 million. That's been contended day after day 
in the *Tribune* and the *Sun-Times* and so on.
 
What's interesting is, we found out that there's a grand jury in 
*another* part of the country looking into a *tremendous* scam 
involving hundreds of millions of dollars. And what do ya know?? 
The pension fund scam here, of the Chicago Housing Authority, is 
a part of it. And this other grand jury is hearing testimony that 
Nicholas J. Bua is involved.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Huh! O.K. My guest is Sherman Skolnick. And you just heard it: 
right now, somewhere in the U.S., is a grand jury, and our judge 
is involved.
 
We shall return. I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.
 
[...commercial break...]
 
All right. Sherman Skolnick of the Committee to Clean Up the 
Courts in Chicago is my guest. And Sherman, tell everyone (before 
we get back to this very exciting news item about Judge Bua being 
somehow part of this pension fund rip-off, or at least being 
alleged that at a grand jury hearing), um, tell us about your 
telephone message service first. 'Cause a lot of people want to 
hear what you've got to say, and you change those messages 
several times a week.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. We have a recorded, 5 minute message, which is a regular 
phone call -- it's not an expensive call. You can call it at 
night, for example, when it's cheaper. And it's 731-1100. And 
that's Chicago, which is area code 312. 731-1100, in Chicago.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Right. You call up Chicago, area 312, 731-1100, any time of day, 
around the clock, and you can listen to a recorded message. How 
long is it usually, Sherman?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Five minutes, and we change it 3 times a week. We've got 
listeners [laughs] all the way from Hawaii to Maine to Puerto 
Rico to Canada. It's a regular phone call, and we've been running 
it...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Now you coulda run this as a 900 number years ago and probably 
done all right. But you've kept it cheap for the folks.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. It's a regular... It's just a regular long-distance call.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Very good.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Now our current message is about Bua. But now here's the point! 
In this pension fund case, people far away are being arrested, 
with international connections. For example, there's a story in 
the *Tribune*, August 26th, that mentions that there was a 
character arrested in Fort Lauderdale [CN -- apparently named Mr. 
Polichemi], who's got a $5 million home there, with banking 
connections all over the world, including in Luxembourg. And that 
he is reportedly involved in this pension fund rip-off in 
Chicago.
 
*But*, what the *Tribune* and the rest of 'em do not mention is 
that there's a grand jury *outside* of Chicago which is looking 
into this and that apparently, Mr. Polichemi reportedly is in 
some way connected with Bua! -- the former federal district judge 
who went on to be the special counsel to the Inslaw grand jury.
 
Other things that the out-of-town grand jury reportedly is 
hearing is that Bua originally was installed on the federal bench 
through a shadowy character in California named George K. Pender 
-- that's P-e-n-d-e-r.
 
 
VALENTINE:
That's a Reagan "Kitchen Cabinet" guy!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. And Pender, according to documents that we [CCCC] have, 
ran a company... He was the president, chairman, and director of 
a company in Santa Monica, California, named First 
Intercontinental Development Corp. And according to documents 
from that company, here are the ones that were directors of 
Pender's company. (And Pender is the one that's reportedly been 
in with Bua.)
 
A director was Robert A. Maheu(sp?) [pronounced MAY-hoo], former 
chief executive for Howard Hughes' operations. And Maheu has been 
accused, in various books, as being a long-time CIA operative, 
reportedly supervising assassins -- such as Chicago gangsters.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes, that's been reported in many books.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Another senior vice-president, director, and chairman of the 
investment committee of *that* company, was Robert Booth 
Nickols(sp?) [pronounced NIK-kuls], who was Riconosciuto's former 
business partner.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah! And a *major* Inslaw player and possibly the man behind the 
killing of Casolaro!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. And Robert Booth Nickols uh, we confronted his former 
business partner, Riconosciuto, who went straight into orbit when 
he realized that we found out that Nickols apparently was 
implicated in the New York World Trade Center bombing.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Who went through the roof? Mike Riconosciuto?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yes.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Oh-oh. Must have touched a nerve, huh?!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
We spent four-and-a-half months interviewing him and he usually 
kept his cool. But when we confronted him about Nickols being 
possibly *involved*... Well, we reached him on the phone, 
actually, after that World Trade Center bombing, and he *shouted* 
at us that we must *get* *off* *that* *case*!
 
So we think there's a connection there.
 
Another director of Pender's company was Clint W. Murchison, jr., 
a close pal of Nixon. And there are some that claim that 
Murchison was involved in the JFK plot.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah, I've heard that too. Don't give it a lot of credence, but 
I've heard it.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yeah, right. Now what's interesting is that Pender reportedly 
helped install Bua in Chicago as a federal district judge. One of 
the first things that Bua did as a judge was to cover up the Alan 
Dorfman case. Alan Dorfman was the wizard of the Teamster's 
pension fund. And he was murdered just after the BBC interviewed 
Dorfman about his CIA connections, that is, running CIA money 
through the Teamster's pension fund. We [CCCC] were the only ones 
that worked on the story, yet there was a BBC *crew* here in 
Chicago. The BBC did not go with [televise/broadcast] the 
interview. We're the only ones that talk about it.
 
 
VALENTINE:
That's right, remember? You had that BBC fella come on my show!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yeah, right. O.K. *Now*, a case involving the estate of Dorfman 
ended up with Bua. And he covered it up.
 
 
VALENTINE:
That's his job, obviously! He was put in there by the powerful 
Reagan bunch and whoever's behind them...
 
 
SKOLNICK:
O.K. But now, here: this grand jury in another part of the 
country is reportedly hearing testimony that Bua was the 
"courier" or "bag man" for reported graft by a major defense 
contractor to the Reagan White House and the Bush White House. 
That was the Northrop company.
 
The head of Northrop, according to previous stories, already had 
been found guilty of certain misconduct regarding the Defense 
Department. But here is Bua, apparently involved in some way with 
Northrop, corrupting the Reagan and Bush White House.
 
In some way it's tied in with Pender and this overall thing. 
Now...
 
 
VALENTINE:
This is not what we normally mean when we say a "Washington 
insider".
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. Now the one that has just been arrested (and I think he's 
gonna be brought back to Chicago from Fort Lauderdale) was Joseph 
Polichemi. P-o-l-i-c-h-e-m-i. And according to authorities in the 
county down there in Florida, he's got the largest home in the 
county, assessed -- they got a picture of it in the *Tribune* -- 
assessed at $5.2 million. And he apparently funneled some of this 
pension fund rip-off money out of the country to a Luxembourg 
bank -- it is so contended in the *Tribune*. But what they left 
out of the story is the apparent connection of Polichemi to Bua, 
to Northrop, to the entire situation, of which the Housing 
Authority [CHA] pension fund rip-off is only a small part. It is 
a *tremendous*, several hundred million dollar scandal, and the 
$12 million is just, uh the pension fund has been embezzled is a 
small part...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah, it's potatoes. O.K. My guest is Sherman Skolnick. You're 
hearing all this for the first time. I'm Tom Valentine. This is 
*Radio Free America*.
 
[...commercial break...]
 
This is Tom Valentine. We are back live. It's *Radio Free 
America*. And we're talking with Sherman Skolnick, and he is 
filling us in now on the goings-on, of the rip-off, of the 
Chicago Housing Authority pension fund for a "measly" $12 
million. But pension funds have been ripped-off for a long time 
and there's gonna be a real collapse of pension funds shortly! 
Unfortunately. We've been talking about that for a long time.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
And so *Spotlight* has done the most in bringing that out to the 
public.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes we have.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Uh now another group of details that is involved here, which 
we've been working on for some time, involves the CIA "black 
budget" [i.e., the part of CIA's budget which is classified] and 
the use of savings & loan that are in failing condition. One book 
came out on this by a Houston...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Peter Brouton(sp?). [CN -- mentioned also in L.J. Davis 
interview] And it's an *outstanding* book. Pete was a guest on 
this show back when he wrote it.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
*The Mafia, The CIA, and George Bush*.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yep.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
...found out there's 26 S&Ls, that were actually operated by the 
CIA, in Colorado and in Texas. He never got around to the Chicago 
end of it. But we've [CCCC] been working on it and he may use 
some of our material in an upcoming book.
 
But there are 3 S&Ls, in Chicago, in the Chicago area, tied in to 
the CIA black budget -- which is also involved in this overall 
picture that I've been spelling out! The 3 savings and loans are, 
Libertyville Savings & Loan (which is a northwest suburb of 
Chicago), Olympia Savings & Loan, and Clyde Savings & Loan. 
Olympia Savings & Loan had an *unlisted* director, Dr. Earl 
Bryan, who is very much mentioned in the Ins...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Ho ho ho. That's the man who stole Inslaw!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right!
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
And unlawfully sold the Inslaw software to foreign intelligence 
agencies.
 
Clyde Savings, a director of it has been congressman Henry Hyde. 
And the Resolution Trust Corporation brought an action against 
Henry Hyde, claiming multi-million dollar misfeasance. The CIA 
angle began to be involved, and the judge in the Henry, uh Henry 
Hyde case ordered all proceedings to be impounded. They brought 
in a lawyer from the CIA, and the case is proceeding only in 
chambers. And the docket shows that there has to be a 10-day 
notice before anything is even *considered* to be public! But we 
know a lot about it *because*, we have, on our TV show, we have 
publicly charged that Henry Hyde, a purported congressman, is 
actually the head, the *head* of the CIA's black budget and has 
more power than the director of Central Intelligence.
 
Now I'm sure some of your listeners will immediately come to the 
conclusion there's something unconstitutional, because a 
*congressman* in the legislative branch is not supposed to be 
doing anything in the executive branch, of which the CIA is a 
part! And yet *he* is apparently the head of the CIA black budget 
-- congressman Henry Hyde. And the case against him in the 
federal district court here is being bottled up in chambers! It 
is shown on the docket of the case and we've been investigating 
that case and we know that they brought in an attorney for the 
CIA to work this thing.
 
So you can see why Chicago is so important...
 
 
VALENTINE:
It is.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
...the thing, in the CIA's black budget, in the Polichemi case, 
in the BCCI case. Apparently the CIA is working their black 
budget tricks through Chicago!
 
 
VALENTINE:
Well you pointed that out when we went clear back to your very, 
very sensational show, on this show, and in *The Spotlight*, when 
you said that congressman Henry Gonzalez, the idiot of the 
Whitewater hearings but the genius against the Fed [i.e., Federal 
Reserve] -- I mean, he *demanded* information on BCCI and the 
Banco Lavoro Nacional from Chicago, Illinois, and they wouldn't 
give it to him!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
By the way, let me just tell a little anecdote that might be [of] 
interest.
 
I and my associates, in September of '92, were in Bua's private 
office. By then he was a private lawyer acting as special counsel 
to the Inslaw grand jury. He was no longer on the bench.
 
I ended up in his office and we began talking about Banca 
Nazionale del Lavoro, the... BNL. And he says he never heard of 
them.
 
I says, "Well it's been much in the paper about Bank Lavoro 
scandal in Atlanta."
 
He says, "I never heard of 'em."
 
I says, "Judge..."
 
He says, "Don't call me 'Judge', Skolnick." He says, "You know me 
30 years. Call me 'Nick'."
 
I says, "Nick. How could you say that you don't know about Bank 
Lavoro?"
 
He says, "I don't."
 
I says, "They're right downstairs, Judge. Let me take ya right to 
'em. THEY'RE RIGHT DOWNSTAIRS OF YOUR OFFICE!!"
 
He says, "Well, I..." [laughs] He didn't have an answer for 
that!! I said, "*How* could you not know that their Chicago 
office is right downstairs!? Come on, Judge."
 
"Call me 'Nick'," he says.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah, "Call me 'Nick'." That guy... I told ya this guy *enjoys* 
this fight! He's on top of the world; he's not the least bit 
afraid of you.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Notice what kind of a fraud he is! He says he never heard of Bank 
Lavoro and they're right downstairs of his office! [laughs]
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah well you see, every time you get a little barb like that, it 
just makes him enjoy the game all the more and, I think -- I 
don't even *know* the man -- but from the things you've told...
 
Now. The important part of that story, that you told on the air, 
was that you confronted, as a journalist, the people in the 
court, the different attorneys for the banks. And you got a 
confirmation from them that George Bush and Saddam Hussein were 
what?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Were business partners. And I asked the participants in a federal 
case, in the back of the courtroom -- I wish we had our video 
equipment there. We would have gotten it on video. There was a 
case involving Saddam Hussein's secret partners. [Congressman 
Henry] Gonzalez's committee were interveners in the case. They 
later tried to stop publicity by telling an editor at *Spotlight* 
that there was no such case. You remember what happened.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yeah.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
We came up with the docket and all the documents.
 
But the *unlisted* secret partner of Saddam Hussein, the Baghdad 
tyrant, was George Herbert Walker book... Bush. {2}. And the 
participants in the hearing confirmed it to me. I asked them 3 
times. I wanted to be *absolutely* sure. And I used his 4 names: 
George Herbert Walker Bush. And they says, "That's right. He's 
the partner in oil kickbacks with Saddam Hussein." And 
*Spotlight*, and your program, were the only ones to discuss it. 
In fact, a few days after that federal hearing (which was in May 
of '91), I was on your program with exclusive details.
 
 
VALENTINE:
That's right.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
The details *now*...
 
 
VALENTINE:
We gotta take a final break! My guest is Sherman Skolnick. And as 
you can see, a lot of things happen in Chicago and it's good for 
us that there *is* a guy like Sherman available to tell us about 
it.
 
I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.
 
[...commercial break...]
 
All right. We are back. And my guest is Sherman Skolnick. And 
this is the final leg of this hour.
 
Sherman, have we *not* hit anything, of the updated stuff? 
Because we don't have a lot of time now.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Well. Let me just summarize it.
 
 
VALENTINE:
Where'd you go!?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Uh... Are you there?
 
 
VALENTINE:
I... I have something wrong with my phone-set I think.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Can you hear me?
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right. Now I can, I think. Speak up.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
O.K. But...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Ah, there you are. Good. O.K.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Let me just summarize what we tried to cover briefly. Obviously, 
in the one-hour period we can't cover all the details.
 
But you can *see* why the late journalist, Danny Casolaro, called 
it "The Octopus". You can see what's happening here. And you can 
see why *Bua*, as the special counsel for the Justice Department 
to the Inslaw grand jury felt obligated to call what everybody 
else that knows anything calls a "murder", he calls it "suicide".
 
*Also*, you probably can see why some of us believe that White 
House aide Vincent Foster, jr., was murdered. Because -- and 
we've said it for a year! Because he was trying to tell Clinton, 
"Look. There's a murder team in the Justice Department and if you 
don't do anything you're gonna get impeached!" Well, instead they 
murdered Vincent Foster, and made it look to us as a suicide.
 
But. By the way. These murder teams specialize in two things: 
airplane sabotage, which is a subject that I have spent more than 
20 years investigating...
 
 
VALENTINE:
*Yes*. And you and I were both involved in that big one in 
Chicago that killed E. Howard Hunt's wife, Dorothy.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. And...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Who was the state judge that blocked that?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Bua!
 
 
VALENTINE:
Judge Nicholas Bua. Call me "Nick"! [laughs] O.K. I just wanted 
to get that point.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
The second thing with this murder team, which operates, according 
to Elliott Richardson, in a secret section there, in, with, or 
behind O.S.I., in the Justice Department -- they specialize in 
*murder*, disguised as suicides. And in Danny Casolaro, and a 
number of other situations, a lot of the Inslaw grand jury 
witnesses supposedly, one by one, killed themselves. {3}.
 
 
VALENTINE:
This is not a secret any longer, because Michael Fuller has said 
it on this show. Dave Tompkin, Thomlin(sp?), David Thomlin said 
it on this show. The Wayro(sp?) gal, Maria Wayro, the former 
police officer, the whistleblower in Washington said this. So 
it's coming out, little by little.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
But the overall thing is... Let me just tick off briefly who 
all's involved.
 
Apparent bribery of the White House by Northrop, a defense 
contractor, apparently through Bua. People that were a part of 
Reagan's "Kitchen Cabinet", George K. Pender, Robert Maheu, 
Robert Booth Nickols, a CIA explosives expert that was 
Riconosciuto's former business partner.
 
You can see why the late Casolaro called it an "octopus". I mean, 
it is an international thing. And the *Tribune*, here in Chicago, 
is playing up the thing as simply a $12 million pension fund rip- 
off. I mean, and *yet* they put in their story, August 26th, that 
this guy Polichemi, who's being held in custody in Fort 
Lauderdale, that he's got worldwide connections through 
Luxembourg! Which is where BCCI operated through also.
 
I mean, in other words, they're not...
 
 
VALENTINE:
It was right under their nose, but they're not going to see it, 
because the powers-that-be will nail them if they try to see it.
 
Sherman, I want to thank you very much. Again, you've given us 
plenty to chew on. And we will stay in touch.
 
Sherman Skolnick is the guy who started the Committee to Clean Up 
the Courts more than 30 years ago. That telephone number for him 
is 312-731-1100. You can call at any time. They change the 
message 3 times a week.
 
Sherman, thanks a lot.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Thanks for listening. Thanks for having me.
 
 
VALENTINE:
We'll see ya next time.
 
All right! Here we go again, you see? Things are going [on], 
*even* *though* *you* *don't* *get* *'em* *in* *the* *news*! You 
don't see it in the newspapers. You don't see it on TV. But it's 
happening. That's why you need *Radio Free America* and *The 
Spotlight*. That's why I need guys like Sherman Skolnick.
 
We'll be back! Wide open lines, lot of commentary, next hour. 
Right after the news.
 
 
-------------------------<< Notes >>-----------------------------
{1} Skolnick actually says "October Massacre" but I am fairly 
sure it is really known as the "Saturday Night Massacre".
 
{2} "...George Herbert Walker book... Bush." "Book" as in police 
jargon, "Book him."
 
{3} These 41 deaths of Inslaw witnesses find parallels in the 
Clinton body count (in Arkansas, primarily) and in the deaths of 
witnesses connected to the JFK assassination.


-- 
 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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"Justice" = "Just us" = "History is written by the assassins."
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(This file was found elsewhere on the Internet and uploaded to the
Radio Free Michigan site by the archive maintainer.

 Protection of
Individual Rights and Liberties. E-mail bj496@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu)