S4 - THE ROBERT LAZAR STORY
TAPE 4 -- SIDE A
Q: ... can you begin... because the tape ran out right there when you were describing what exactly happened when the other car pulled up alongside of you... you said you froze?
L: Yeah, he pulled up alongside of me... when I saw the gun, I froze and was still accelerating, but I didn't make the turn and then I heard the gun fire twice... it fired at the side of the car, you know, later finding the holes... and then hit the rear tire... and I just went straight off the embankment off into the ditch and he went around the corner and took off.
Q: One man in the other car... two men?
L: There were two guns. I'm almost sure. He took off, but I didn't see him make the turn and I thought that he followed me down there and I just stayed, because I thought he was walking up behind me... so I stayed and I just could not raise my head to look, cause I was absolutely petrified... so I had my hands on the steering wheel and I just stayed there and I was looking right at the ground and I just stayed there and I just expected him... I mean I must have been there like fifteen minutes... and I couldn't imagine what was taking him so long to walk up alongside of me... and I finally... it wore off and I turned and there was no car there and I looked back and then I finally got the car out and then I had backed it up and, coincidentally, a city truck had come by...
Q: You had a flat tire?
L: Yeah... well the tire was hit... the rim was...
Q: I'm surprised you could back up at all.
L: Well, it wasn't a deep ditch, I backed up out of there and then a city maintenance truck was coming by, a white truck with bags of garage on the road... picks up the stuff... and he followed me all the way home. I said some guy shot at me and I went off the embankment here and he was a nice guy... I went on Charleston and just drove on the rim all the way home... probably five miles... and continued to fuck up the rest of the car and then got there and called and told Gene what had happened... and then from there went with Gene and went to the satellite link-up and they interrupted the news.
Q: You went straight... that's amazing. That is amazing! You told me about this... there was more information about aliens... in the same room you went into there were different briefs... and you kept going to the same spot... there were armed guards up there... and that one of the briefs, at least, was this plastic photograph... would you describe that again?
L: Right... there were... a very odd book where, if you've ever seen any of the old Collier encyclopedias they have... if you look under human anatomy they have several clear Mylar pages and you could peel away the circulatory system and see bones and peel away muscles and so on and so forth and see different layers... but what they had in this book was really odd in that it would do that as you turned the page... almost like the old 3-D postcards...
Q: It was a book in fact?
L: Yeah, it was much... it wasn't that cheap, I guess, cause you had to see them at certain angles... but just, as you moved the page every just a few degrees, it would go through the different layers and in one they had a hut of a house and it was like a mud type house... and you'd move it and the grass would disappear... move it... the mud would disappear... you'd see the superstructure... move it and you'd just see the internal dwelling area... and to me that was amazing... because I couldn't possible see how that could be done optically on...
Q: How thick was the paper?
L: It was just as thick as a piece of Mylar...
Q: Were there hundreds of pictures in this book?
L: No it was a lot of text and just pictures here and there.
Q: What language was the text in.
L: English. It seemed like the English was inserted... re-inserted in there.
Q: So who made this book?
L: I don't know.
Q: What was the text about?
L: The text was about living conditions here... about different... there was a guy that lived in a hut... it was like a National Geographic book more or less...
Q: So the aliens were reporting on us in our own language?
L: That would be speculation.
Q: Okay.
L: Either that or it would have been information that we compiled and gave to someone else... but whatever it was, it was certainly unusual...
Q: Was the text simplistic?
L: Ah... yeah.
Q: What would happen if you flipped the book over?
L: I'm getting to that.
(LAUGHTER)
L: It was very simplistic and it just showed what lived in a dwelling like that... but the same thing... as you moved the page, this guy's clothes would drop... his skin would come off his muscles... it would do that... and instead of sitting there reading most of the text, I played with the photographs... because even looking up close, I could not see...
Q: Hallucinatory again.
L: Yeah, you could not get to a point where it would not take place. You know, if you had a 3-D card in certain lights and certain angles it just doesn't work and you have to position it right, but no matter how this was, if you tilted it a certain way, it worked... and to me I was fascinated by that. The book had two front covers... if you flipped the book over, this is where the stuff about Zeta Reticuli and other stuff would come from, cause now this seemed like, though it was just a few pages that dealt with the alien craft, and origin and so on and so forth, but not nearly in the detail of the other.
Q: Probably there was some... I'm going to guess... probably you could connect that to a period of cooperation that ended with these people getting killed. That there was some level of cooperation, the aliens were trying to prove that they had been around a long time... showing pictures they'd taken...
L: How can there possibly... yeah, but I don't know... how can there be?
Q: Would that fit in though, if that were the truth? Would that make sense out of this book?
L: Yeah, it's possible, but...
Q: I mean... here's a spacecraft... here's a coloring book...
L: But what... aliens sitting down with humans exchanging pictures... that sounds ridiculous.
Q: Well, they had autopsies, so they had aliens at one time... dead or alive... they could well have found them and shot them...
L: You can speculate forever about all the ramifications...
Q: Were there any other texts that suggested dialogues between the government and the aliens...
L: No. No, but in that alien section... that I call the alien section 'cause it dealt with them, is we were always referred to as containers.
Q: So it definitely was written from an alien point of view...
L: No doubt about that.
Q: So aliens referred to us as containers... what were they saying about us as containers?
L: I don't know. What left the impression... it said nothing about it... but the way I looked at it was... biological containers... almost like culture dishes... now that's just the impression I got from reading it though it said nothing like it... it was almost... containers of genetic material.
Q: Were they suggesting that they were...
L: No... there was no suggestion about anything... not that anyone was doing experiments... nothing like that... and I actually looked for something like that... but it was so neutral... it was edited to be so neutral that you really couldn't grasp anything out of it. But it was just the context of which it was stated.
Q: In my conversations on this, and I do admit that I have to be careful, because I've been thinking about it a lot while I've been working on something else... I've come under the impression, it may have been from other material I've been reading, that they... that there was some information that the aliens were suggesting they'd been manipulating through genetics...
L: Well, that was...
Q: That was in this book.
L: Yeah, now some of that was conjecture... because it lead me to believe...
Q: I'm not saying we're going to present any of this that's not conjecture... what's interesting about the story is you have some solid things you've seen... and some things that fucked you up if you guessed in a period when you were heavily (UNCLEAR)... I'm not going to suggest that you hallucinated these things... but it's all part of the real canvas of this story that is compelling. The fact that you read something of that nature...
L: Yeah, of the nature... but there are lots of "if's" here... cause you have to step back even... because... are containers actually people... is number one? Because at no point in there did it say -- containers are humans... okay? So... immediately you're on unsteady ground...
Q: I can present all of this portion of information with you in your most anxious state towards the end of the story... talking to your friend, Gene, saying just what you're saying to me here...
L: Right.
Q: Gene would be me saying... And you'll say... but that's conjecture... because you're a scientist...
L: Right.
Q: And Gene can say... well, what else can it be? I don't know. That's the way to dramatize some of these things I find compelling... that I would like to deal with...
L: My point was... there was nothing that directly related interaction with humans verbatim... that said that... the interaction was with containers and they mentioned 65 corrections in the evolutionary process of containers... now...
Q: Where did this information come from... you're not sure... I still feel that it's manipulative information in the first place... which is possible... and these are things that can be dramatized with you being passionate about, just as you are now, that's not a fact... I don't know what it means... and Gene playing the role I am of devil's advocate...
L: The only thing that I've continued absolutely to stand on is the material that I read in the briefings that was corroborated by the hardware.
Q: Yeah, but other than that... because this isn't a documentary... the things that were disturbing to you can be presented dramatically as things that were disturbing to you. As things that you don't want to stand on, but you did see... that are ultimately part of the greater conspiracy of some kind... true or untrue... it's either disinformation from the government itself being given to you on purpose, it's something that really happened, it's something that was really brought by aliens, who may or may not be telling the truth... there's a millions ways... the last thing I'd do is take something like this and say, oh, it must be true. I'm into the Captain Cook philosophy which is believe nobody with superior technology...
L: Right, just because someone actually came from another planet, does not mean they don't know how to lie. Or have motives to do it.
Q: Exactly. That's a brand new concept in cinema and to our people. And a concept that I think is a public service to present in this picture in case they do ever land on the White House lawn or in case they do decide to drop it out of whatever... airplane... and pretend they never saw one before. Because there'll be a certain amount of people that want to go worship anything out there...
L: Right.
Q: And I think it's a public service to show an intelligent point of view on this which is, hey, they're spaceships, which means there is somebody, but which also means that those aren't just people that have the right kind of gas... technology isn't magic.
L: Right.
Q: That demystification is literally how we sold this picture to New Line. I expect to dramatize it and they expect me to do so... it's part of the step forward about this picture instead of doing a tabloid. So those are details that are great, compelling details that don't present you as a non-scientist nut case that believes all this stuff. That's what's great about the character of Lear... is that I can also dramatize the opposite end of the spectrum and your attitude towards a person like that... that this is not who you are... it's a great contrast to your character and it's still fascinating that I could sit here today or tomorrow and probably not convince you of something I think might be truly an abduction case... and you've seen these saucers... I think that that's great... part of the reason I personally knowing you so fascinating. Where there any other artifacts or anything that bizarre that you came across in these briefings? You know what I want to do... let's stop now... because we're all tired and I got what I wanted with this arc... one complete arc with this story and additions or corrections... character....
END OF TAPE 4 -- SIDE A
SIDE B -- BLANK