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In-Reply-To: <622639.49402.qm_at_web80205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY120-W129F14B718C810C0DC4A1A84AD0_at_phx.gbl>
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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:27:45 -0300
Message-ID: <946d87a20902270527t2252f40ft688030085c316ccc_at_mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] {3395} Re: Receiver oscillator as transmitter
From: Humberto Sodre <hrs..._at_gmail.com>
To: TSCM-L2006_at_googlegroups.com
--0016e645b9b42584ca0463e66f03
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Marty,
Can you give me additional informations about "Room conversation would also
FM the LO but nobody wanted to know that"?
Thanks in advance.
Humberto.
2009/2/26 martykaiser <marty..._at_prodigy.net>
> Hi Reg
>
> Mason A-2's were notorius from local oscillator leakage. I'm talking
> milliwatts. Room conversation would also FM the LO but nobody wanted to
> know that.
>
> Marty W3VCG
>
> --- On *Thu, 2/26/09, Reginald Curtis <reginal..._at_hotmail.com>*wrote:
>
> From: Reginald Curtis <reginal..._at_hotmail.com>
> Subject: [TSCM-L] {3394} Re: Receiver oscillator as transmitter
> To: tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com
> Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:59 PM
>
> Humberto,
>
> Sorry for the belated reply to your posting. Other matters active at the
> time and I just let that day's emails slip after that. Anyway, two points
> relating to radio receiver uninteded transmissions by ships using 1930's
> (and perhaps earlier) technology during WW II.
>
> 1. Apparently, many if not all, were using the earlier regerative
> technology as opposed to a superhetrodyne circuit.
>
> 2. Probably not a major item but interesting. At the beginning of the war
> many ships were wired for 110 volts DC as opposed to the usual 110 AC. I =
am
> not sure how long this continued to be the norm.
>
> Thanks again,
>
>
> *Reg Curtis/VE9RWC*
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:32:33 -0300
> From: hrs..._at_gmail.com
> To: TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com
> Subject: [TSCM-L] {2793} Re: Receiver oscillator as transmitter
>
>
> Red,
>
> Forgive me for my mistakes, because I=B4m not fluent in English.
> Here in Brazil in my Engineering of Communications Course, I had Dr.
> Theodor Helmut Schreyer as a teacher. He was a German engineer who took a
> PhD in Berlin in the year 1939. In his doctoral thesis he submitted a new
> circuit, which was a flip-flop mounted with the gas valves, since there w=
as
> not the technology of semiconductors only discovered in the 50's. He
> confirmed that at the beginning of the World War II the receivers of Germ=
an
> submarines had not buffers and the RF signal from antenna followed direct=
ly
> to the mixer where it was mixed with the local oscillator signal
> resulting FI. This causes that only with the receivers ON, the RF signal
> produced by local oscillator was radiated by the antenna, which allow
> British Navy to locate the signal from the local oscillator of radio
> receivers, and destroy the German submarines.
> Dr. Schreyer was instructed by German Navy to develop a solution and he
> created a intermediary stage (buffer) between antenna and mixer, which wa=
s
> an amplifier that receives the signal from the antenna, amplifies and
> delivery to the mixer, thrn mixed to the signal from the local oscillator=
,
> resulting in FI, which is processed and demodulated in the following stag=
es,
> as is currently the case with any superheterodine receiver.
> After the end of World War II, Dr. Schreyer, unlike many other scientists
> who went to the United States or to Russia, came to Brazil where he lived
> until the end of his life as head of Brazilian Postal Services Laboratory
> and as a professor in the Military Telecommunications Engineering
> Institute, a Brazilian Army school where I was graduated as communication=
s
> engineer in 1979. He was one of the best and most capable teachers I had.
> Regards,
> Humberto Rigotti
>
> 2008/8/6 <reginal..._at_hotmail.com>
>
>
> In World War II, there was some fear that German submarines were
> locating Allied ships by 'dfing' oscillations from ships' receivers.
> The following comes from the July 2008 issue of 'Practical Wireless',
> a British magazine dealing with Amateur Radio. The article, at pages
> 44-46, is titled "Amateur Radio Personality" and gives a career
> profile of G3IK who started out as a junior radio operator in the
> merchant marine in 1943. He later became an electronics engineer. One
> very interesting portion deals with his experiences as an operator
> during the war and relates to the use of a ship's receiver as a
> transmitter. The article commences with:
>
> " Rob G3XFD: 'Thank you for agreeing to be featured as our Amateur
> Radio Personality Ed! You've had a remarkable life and the letters
> following your name, including MBE, surely reflect your adventures?
> When did you first get interested in radio?'
>
> Ed Chicken G3BIK: 'It's my pleasure to join you Rob, I'm delighted to
> share my story to you for PW readers. My lifelong involvement with
> radio began at 15 years old in 1943 using Morse code on and about
> 500kHz at the Colwyn Bay Wireless College, North Wales where I
> obtained a PMG Certificate in Wireless Telegraphy.
>
> Maritime receivers were still mainly t.r.f. [tuned radio frequency?]
> types with reaction, but because the transmitters all used tone-
> modulated carrier (m.c.w.), the receiver's reaction control was used
> primarily to maximise the receiver's sensitivity, just on the verge
> of, but not quite "plopping" into oscillation, such as would have been
> necessary for reception of c.w.'
>
> Rob G3XFD: 'Life in the Merchant Navy was incredibly dangerous in the
> Second World War Ed!'
>
> Ed G3BIK: 'Yes, it was risky as we crossed the Atlantic in slow
> merchant ships. However, we were warned to avoid turning the
> receiver's reaction [r.f. gain?] up too far whilst at sea, as it could
> act as a transmitter on 500kHz enabling enemy U-boats to locate us!'
>
> .....
>
> Rob G3XFD: 'A narrow escape Ed, but I think that you have had some
> more adventures and managed to use your Spanish again very soon
> afterwards?'
>
> Ed G3BIK: 'Yes Rob, engine failure gave me my first opportunity to
> break the mandatory radio silence on 500kHZ, to seek help via the
> Americans in Panama. The IFF unit was used in earnest when an American
> Catalina flying boat came to meet us. ....'
>
> .......
>
> Rob G3XFD: ' You obviously had an eventful war Ed! What direction did
> your career take you in peacetime?'
>
> Ed G3 BIK: 'Having left the Merchant Navy, I got a shore job mending
> domestic wireless sets, a service in demand because new sets weren't
> available. I applied for and was granted my own Amateur licence with
> callsign G3BIK. My PMG certificate exempted me from exams but I was
> still restricted to 10 watts of c.w. for the first year.
>
> War surplus equipment became readily available at attractive prices
> but I couldn't take real advantage of that because my parent's home
> didn't have electricity! So, I acquired a battery-operated trawler-
> band two valved [two-tubed] t.r.f. receiver with "reaction", I used
> the house wireless-aerial and earth spike and began searching for
> Amateur transmissions on the 160 metre top-band. To my great delight I
> heard G6UP calling "CQ" in Morse, but only recognisable as c.w. tones
> after turning up the "reaction".
>
> My excitement was boundless, as was the frustration of not yet having
> a transmitter to reply. That's when the wartime warning about the rash
> use of 'reaction' sprang to mind, so I unplugged the h.t. wander-plug
> and used it as a make-shift Morse key to tap out a response to G6UP in
> hope that this would be my first ever G3BIK transmission.
>
> Joy upon joy, he came back with "G3BIK de G6UP. UR 579c"". I was fully
> readable and fairly strong but with some chirp! So the wartime concept
> of receiver acting as transmitter was proven right!'
>
> ......"
>
> The End.
>
> Reg Curtis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
--0016e645b9b42584ca0463e66f03
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div>Marty,</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Can you give me=A0additional informations=A0about "Room conversat=
ion would also FM the LO but nobody wanted to know that"?</div>
<div>Thanks in advance.</div>
<div>Humberto.<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/2/26 martykaiser <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:marty..._at_prodigy.net">marty..._at_prodigy.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign=3D"top">
<div>Hi Reg</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Mason A-2's were notorius from local oscillator leakage.=A0 I'=
m talking milliwatts.=A0 Room conversation would also FM the LO but nobody =
wanted to know that.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Marty W3VCG<br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 2/26/09, Reginald Curtis <i><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:reginal..._at_hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">reginal..._at_hotmail.=
com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(=
16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Reginald Curtis <<a href=3D"mailto:reginal..=
._at_hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">reginal..._at_hotmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [TSCM-L] {3394} Re: Receiver oscillator as transmitter<br>To: <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:tscm-..._at_googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">tscm-..._at_googleg=
roups.com</a><br>Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009, 2:59 PM<br><br>
<div>Humberto,<br>=A0<br>Sorry for the belated reply to your posting. Other=
matters active at the time and I just let that day's emails=A0slip aft=
er that. Anyway, two points relating to radio receiver uninteded transmissi=
ons by ships using 1930's (and perhaps earlier)=A0technology during WW =
II.<br>
=A0<br>1. Apparently, many if not all, were using the earlier regerative te=
chnology as opposed to a superhetrodyne circuit. <br>=A0<br>2. Probably not=
a major item but interesting. At the beginning of the war many ships were =
wired for 110 volts DC as opposed to the usual 110 AC. I am not sure how lo=
ng this continued to be the norm.<br>
=A0<br>Thanks again,<br><br><br>
<div>
<div><font color=3D"#ff0033"><strong>Reg Curtis/VE9RWC</strong></font></div=
></div><br><br><br>=A0 <br>
<hr>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:32:33 -0300<br>From: <a href=3D"mailto:hrs..._at_gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">hrs..._at_gmail.com</a><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:TSCM=
-..._at_googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">TSCM-..._at_googlegroups.com</a><br>
Subject: [TSCM-L] {2793} Re: Receiver oscillator as transmitter<br><br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Red, <br><br>Forgive me for my mistakes,=A0because I=B4m n=
ot fluent in English.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Here in Brazil=A0in my=A0Engineering of Communications Cou=
rse, I=A0had Dr. Theodor Helmut Schreyer as a teacher. He was a German engi=
neer who took a PhD in Berlin in the year 1939. In his doctoral thesis he s=
ubmitted a new circuit, which was a flip-flop mounted with the gas valves, =
since there was not=A0the technology of semiconductors only discovered in t=
he 50's. He confirmed that at the beginning of the World War II the=A0r=
eceivers of German submarines had not=A0buffers and the=A0RF signal from an=
tenna followed directly to the mixer where it was mixed with the local osci=
llator signal resulting=A0FI. This=A0causes that only with the receivers ON=
, the RF signal produced by local oscillator=A0was radiated by the antenna,=
which=A0allow British Navy to locate the signal from the local oscillator =
of radio receivers, and destroy the German submarines. <br>
Dr. Schreyer was instructed by German Navy to develop a solution and he cre=
ated a=A0intermediary=A0stage=A0(buffer) between antenna and mixer, which=
=A0was an=A0amplifier that receives the signal from the antenna, amplifies =
and delivery to the mixer,=A0thrn=A0mixed to=A0the signal from the local os=
cillator, resulting in=A0FI, which is processed and demodulated in the foll=
owing stages, as is currently the case with any superheterodine receiver. <=
br>
After the end of World War II, Dr. Schreyer, unlike many other scientists w=
ho went to the United States or to Russia, came to Brazil where he lived un=
til the end of his life as head of=A0Brazilian Postal Services=A0Laboratory=
and as a professor in the Military=A0 Telecommunications Engineering Insti=
tute, a=A0Brazilian Army school where I was graduated=A0as communications e=
ngineer in 1979. He was one of the best and most capable teachers I had.</d=
iv>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Humberto Rigotti<br><br></div>
<div>2008/8/6 <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:reginal..._at_hotmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">reginal..._at_hotmail.com</a>></span>=
<br>
<blockquote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>In=
World War II, there was some fear that German submarines were<br>locating =
Allied ships by 'dfing' oscillations from ships' receivers.<br>
The following comes from the July 2008 issue of 'Practical Wireless'=
;,<br>a British magazine dealing with Amateur Radio. The article, at pages<=
br>44-46, is titled "Amateur Radio Personality" and gives a caree=
r<br>
profile of G3IK who started out as a junior radio operator in the<br>mercha=
nt marine in 1943. He later became an electronics engineer. One<br>very int=
eresting portion deals with his experiences as an operator<br>during the wa=
r and relates to the use of a ship's receiver as a<br>
transmitter. The article commences with:<br><br>" Rob G3XFD: 'Than=
k you for agreeing to be featured as our Amateur<br>Radio Personality Ed! Y=
ou've had a remarkable life and the letters<br>following your name, inc=
luding MBE, surely reflect your adventures?<br>
When did you first get interested in radio?'<br><br>Ed Chicken G3BIK: &=
#39;It's my pleasure to join you Rob, I'm delighted to<br>share my =
story to you for PW readers. My lifelong involvement with<br>radio began at=
15 years old in 1943 using Morse code on and about<br>
500kHz at the Colwyn Bay Wireless College, North Wales where I<br>obtained =
a PMG Certificate in Wireless Telegraphy.<br><br>Maritime receivers were st=
ill mainly t.r.f. [tuned radio frequency?]<br>types with reaction, but beca=
use the transmitters all used tone-<br>
modulated carrier (m.c.w.), the receiver's reaction control was used<br=
>primarily to maximise the receiver's sensitivity, just on the verge<br=
>of, but not quite "plopping" into oscillation, such as would hav=
e been<br>
necessary for reception of c.w.'<br><br>Rob G3XFD: 'Life in the Mer=
chant Navy was incredibly dangerous in the<br>Second World War Ed!'<br>=
<br>Ed G3BIK: 'Yes, it was risky as we crossed the Atlantic in slow<br>
merchant ships. However, we were warned to avoid turning the<br>receiver=
9;s reaction [r.f. gain?] up too far whilst at sea, as it could<br>act as a=
transmitter on 500kHz enabling enemy U-boats to locate us!'<br><br>
.....<br><br>Rob G3XFD: 'A narrow escape Ed, but I think that you have =
had some<br>more adventures and managed to =A0use your Spanish again very s=
oon<br>afterwards?'<br><br>Ed G3BIK: 'Yes Rob, engine failure gave =
me my first opportunity to<br>
break the mandatory radio silence on 500kHZ, to seek help via the<br>Americ=
ans in Panama. The IFF unit was used in earnest when an American<br>Catalin=
a flying boat came to meet us. ....'<br><br>.......<br><br>Rob G3XFD: &=
#39; You obviously had an eventful war Ed! What direction did<br>
your career take you in peacetime?'<br><br>Ed G3 BIK: 'Having left =
the Merchant Navy, I got a shore job mending<br>domestic wireless sets, a s=
ervice in demand because new sets weren't<br>available. I applied for a=
nd was granted my own Amateur licence with<br>
callsign G3BIK. My PMG certificate exempted me from exams but I was<br>stil=
l restricted to 10 watts of c.w. for the first year.<br><br>War surplus equ=
ipment became readily available at attractive prices<br>but I couldn't =
take real advantage of that because my parent's home<br>
didn't have electricity! So, I acquired a battery-operated trawler-<br>=
band two valved [two-tubed] t.r.f. receiver with "reaction", I us=
ed<br>the house wireless-aerial and earth spike and began searching for<br>
Amateur transmissions on the 160 metre top-band. To my great delight I<br>h=
eard G6UP calling "CQ" in Morse, but only recognisable as c.w. to=
nes<br>after turning up the "reaction".<br><br>My excitement was =
boundless, as was the frustration of not yet having<br>
a transmitter to reply. That's when the wartime warning about the rash<=
br>use of 'reaction' sprang to mind, so I unplugged the h.t. wander=
-plug<br>and used it as a make-shift Morse key to tap out a response to G6U=
P in<br>
hope that this would be my first ever G3BIK transmission.<br><br>Joy upon j=
oy, he came back with "G3BIK de G6UP. UR 579c"". I was fully=
<br>readable and fairly strong but with some chirp! So the wartime concept<=
br>
of receiver acting as transmitter was proven right!'<br><br>......"=
;<br><br>The End.<br><br>Reg Curtis<br><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br><=
/div><br><br><br><br></div></blockquote></td></tr>
<tr>
<td><br></p>
<p></p></p></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote></div><br>
--0016e645b9b42584ca0463e66f03--
Received on Sat Mar 02 2024 - 00:57:17 CST