UFO UpDates
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   Jan

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Jan 2000

  Jan 1:

   Re: Documentary? - Sam Sherman [47]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Sam Sherman [13]
   Re: Filer's Files #52--1999 - George A. Filer [435]
   Re: Corso - Jim Mortellaro [102]

  Jan 2:

   Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up? - Dennis Stacy [19]
   Re: Traces Of The Ancients - Bill Alford [15]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #332 - Alfred Lehmberg [97]
   Re: Top 10 UFO Stories of 1999 - Ignatius Graffeo [32]
   The Photon-Belt Encounter - Steven L. Wilson Sr [223]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36 - John Tenney [19]
   Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Roy J Hale [7]
   Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 1-1-00 - Rense E-News [418]
   Re: The Immediate Future - GT McCoy [34]
   Re: "A century of UFOs" UFO Roundup 31/12/99 - Bill Chalker [57]
   Roswell To Aliens - New Years Eve 1999 - Stig Agermose [76]
   Open For Offers - Sean Jones [13]
   Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9 - James Easton [599]
   Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up? - Stan Friedman [40]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #332 - Jim Mortellaro [20]
   An End is a Beginning..... - Jim Mortellaro [34]
   Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation' - Gildas Bourdais [22]
   Re: Corso - Gildas Bourdais [71]

  Jan 3:

   Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation' - Sean Jones [31]
   Issue 104 pt 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO
   Network [508]
   04 pt 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO Network [516]
   Issue 104 pt 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network - United Kingdom UFO
   Network [181]
   Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus - Mark Cashman [30]
   UFO Sighting On Yorkshire Moors - Todd Lemire [47]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Bill Alford [17]
   'Lynne Bishop's Borderline' - Lynne Bishop [7]
   Re: Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9 - Roy J Hale [96]
   Re: Traces Of The Ancients - Mac Tonnies [48]
   Re: Documentary? - Bruce Maccabee [41]
   Re: An End is a Beginning..... - Mac Tonnies [27]
   Re: Corso - Mac Tonnies [32]
   TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' - Chris Kelly [16]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36 - Michel M. Deschamps [34]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Philip Mantle [51]
   Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus - Roy J Hale [35]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Roy J Hale [12]

  Jan 4:

   Canadian Researcher Chronicles A Century Of UFO - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [80]
   Re: Documentary? - Jim Deardorff [66]
   Jimmy Guieu 1926-2000 - Bruno Mancusi [19]
   Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation' - Gildas Bourdais [21]
   Re: Documentary? - Roger Evans [37]
   Re: Traces Of The Ancients - Michael Christol [59]
   Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' - Sam Sherman [29]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36 - John Tenney [65]
   Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash' - Bob Young [24]
   Bell & Strieber Book? - Sharon Kardol [6]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - Steven Kaeser [23]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - GT McCoy [15]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Jenny Randles [24]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - Joe Murgia [34]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - David N Kirby [195]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - Larry Hatch [26]
   Re: Traces Of The Ancients - Mac Tonnies [78]

  Jan 5:

   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - Patrick Killeen [14]
   Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash' - Bob Young [34]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - GT McCoy [56]
   Speculative Martian Archaeology - Mac Tonnies [114]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - Mac Tonnies [44]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - Royce J. Myers III [15]
   Re: Traces Of The Ancients - Erol Erkmen [37]
   Wanted - Close Encounters Of Forth Kind - Blair Cummins [26]
   Sprint Says 'Area 51' Does Exist - Blair Cummins [12]
   Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town - Kenny Young [44]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Edoardo Russo [17]
   Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI - Jeroen Wierda [102]
   Re: Bell & Strieber Book? - Steven W. Kaeser [34]
   Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash' - James Bond Johnson [21]
   Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash' - James Bond Johnson [22]

  Jan 6:

   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Bill Alford [37]
   Re: Pleiades - Ed Gehrman [27]
   NASA Questions - Carlos G. Roselli [15]
   UK Conference 2000 Latest - Tim MathewsTMMatthews99@aol.com [25]
   Re: Traces Of The Ancients - Michael Christol [44]
   Re: Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI - Mark Cashman [28]
   [bwwma] FLASH - Bufo Calvin [29]
   Re: Traces Of The Ancients - Bill Alford [79]
   TUVPO Site Hacked - Erol Erkmen [32]
   Re: NASA Questions - Bob Young [17]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Roy J Hale [20]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Jenny Randles [57]
   Re: NASA Questions - Terry Blanton [24]
   Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town - Terry Blanton [21]
   Re: Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI - Sean Jones [37]

  Jan 7:

   Re: NASA Questions - Mac Tonnies [27]
   Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash' - David Rudiak [81]
   Re: NASA Questions - Donald Ledger [32]
   Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town - Kenny Young [36]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Roy J Hale [37]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Bill Alford [36]
   Cydonian Imperative 2000: Mars Global Surveyor - Mac Tonnies [105]
   Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation' - Gildas Bourdais [126]
   Close Encounters Across The Great Wall - Blair Cummins [91]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Roy J Hale [57]
   Re: Voyager Newsletter - Roy J Hale [44]
   Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' - Dave Bower [38]
   Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation' - Sean Jones [32]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 1 - Joseph Trainor [540]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Jim Mortellaro [56]
   Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening - George A. Filer [461]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative 2000: Mars Global Surveyor - Joachim Koch [59]
   Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' - Erol Erkmen [17]

  Jan 8:

   Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' - Jerome Clark [26]
   Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation' - Roy J Hale [22]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Jacqueline Cosford [39]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Jenny Randles [24]
   Invitation To Cydonia Mailing List - Mac Tonnies [168]
   Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening - Jim Mortellaro [78]
   Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' - Larry Hatch [52]
   Re: Invitation To Cydonia Mailing List - Larry Hatch [28]
   Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening - Sue Strickland [38]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #333 - Alfred Lehmberg [62]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - John Rimmer [22]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [134]
   More On Giant Space Snowballs Hitting Earth - Nick Balaskas [131]
   Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town - Vicki Carlson [15]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - James Easton [15]

  Jan 9:

   Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening - Royce J. Myers III
   [90]
   Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 1-8-99 - Rense E-News [241]
   ET Combos? - Roy J Hale [22]
   Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' - Serge Salvaille
   [35]
   Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus - Alex Persky [25]
   Yorkshire, UK UFO Society Website - Dave Baker [7]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Mark Cashman [38]
   Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917 - Book - Joaquim Fernandes [81]
   Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation' - Joaquim Fernandes [36]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - David Rudiak [128]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Ed Gehrman [38]
   Police Report Starfield Camouflage UFO - Kenny Young [64]
   Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening - Edoardo Russo [27]

  Jan 10:

   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Michael Christol [38]
   Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town - Michael Christol [27]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Michael Christol [39]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Principles v. 1 - Mac Tonnies [121]
   I'm back - Are The Pelicans Gone? - Josh Goldstein [184]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Bruce Maccabee [1606]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - GT McCoy [160]
   Re: I'm back - Are The Pelicans Gone? - Bruce Maccabee [46]
   Re: Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917 - Book - Colm A Kelleher [26]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Brian Straight [32]
   Jan. 20 Total Lunar Eclipse - Takeshi Okimura
   [mailto:tokimura@seti.org] [54]
   Photo of 'Star Camouflage' UFO Also Drawings - Kenny Young [6]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Michael Christol [29]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Nick Balaskas [44]
   Re: Photo of 'Star Camouflage' UFO Also Drawings - James Easton [19]

  Jan 11:

   Factual Issue Regarding 'Star Camouflage' UFO - Kenny Young [19]
   Re: Factual Issue Regarding 'Star Camouflage' UFO - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [56]
   Cydonian Imperative: Making ETI Fashionable - Mac Tonnies [118]
   Steve Johnson? - Philip Mantle [7]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Philip Mantle - UFO [42]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Philip Mantle - UFO [43]
   NY Times Front Page UFO Article! - UFO UpDates - Toronto [151]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Brian Straight [32]
   Re: Steve Johnson? - Michael Lennick [48]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Jim Mortellaro [55]
   Re: NASA Questions - Keith Woodard [100]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - googong@interact.net.au [38]
   Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article! - Stan Friedman [21]
   Re: ET Combos? - Sean Jones [26]
   Bert Alien? - David Robbins [8]
   Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article! - Roger Evans [16]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Michael Christol [46]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Michael Christol [25]
   Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article! - Greg Sandow [19]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Nick Balaskas [87]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [194]

  Jan 12:

   Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article! - GT McCoy [32]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Bill Alford [164]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - googong@interact.net.au [7]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - RGates8254@aol.com [15]
   Re: Mac Tonnies <Cydonian Imperative: FAQ> - Mac Tonnies [185]
   Re: Bert Alien? - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article! - Larry Hatch [38]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - David Rudiak [93]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [127]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [116]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [60]
   Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article! - Jim Mortellaro [31]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Ed Gehrman [23]
   Re: Woods Request and MJ12 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [149]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Jenny Randles [62]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Michael Christol [66]
   'Starfield Camouflage' - Interesting Image - Kenny Young [13]

  Jan 13:

   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - James Easton [43]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - David Rudiak [34]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Bill Alford [78]
   Vandenberg Launch To Light Up California Skies - Joel Carpenter [162]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Kathleen Andersen [49]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Jerome Clark [46]
   Re: ET Combos? - Roy J Hale [18]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Roy J Hale [20]
   Travis Walton - An Insider's View - Brian Straight [601]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 2 - John Hayes [493]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Ed Gehrman [24]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Nick Balaskas [68]
   Phil Imbrogno To Speak - Ellen Littleford [11]
   NIDS Investigates Officer Sighting - Blair Cummins [76]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Martin Jeffrey [27]
   UFO Sighting Brings Town Attention - Blair Cummins [35]
   Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed - Blair Cummins [130]
   Re: Travis Walton - An Insider's View - Jerome Clark [49]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - Stan Friedman [72]
   UK Conference 2000 - Update - Tim Matthews [14]
   World's Strangest Wings - Sue Addison [4]
   Cydonian Imperative: What is the Evidence? - Mac Tonnies [169]
   Total Eclipse Of Moon And LTP Observing - Francis Ridge [49]
   Police Report On Jan. 5th Sighting - Kenny Young [6]
   Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed - Stan Friedman [43]
   Re: Arnold in the Year 2000 - David Rudiak [62]

  Jan 14:

   UFO*BC Updates - 01-13-2000 - Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC [35]
   Cydonian Imperative: 'Dolphin' Features - Mac Tonnies [206]
   Oz - Warning: Another Big Antartica Balloon - Dr Ron Barnett [73]
   Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed - Jenny Randles [38]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Jenny Randles [125]
   Nick Pope's Weird World - Dec 99 - Georgina Bruni [102]
   Nick Pope's Weird World January 2000 - Georgina Bruni [137]
   Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed - Steven Kaeser [71]
   Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case? - Andy Roberts [29]
   Sighting Report OZ File. 00475 12.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [80]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00467 10.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [86]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [21]
   The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium - Bruce Maccabee [33]
   Filer's Files #02 - 2000 Political Awakening - George A. File [456]
   Re: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium - Steven Kaeser [19]
   Re: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium - Steven Kaeser [3]

  Jan 15:

   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction - Mac Tonnies [34]
   35,000 Pound NASA Observatory Splashdown? - Steven L. Wilson Sr [49]
   Sighting Report OZ File 00469 10.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [75]
   Sighting Report OZ File 00478 14.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [74]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction - Larry Hatch [35]
   Katharina Wilson Is Leaving The Field? - Roy J Hale [8]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction - Dave Bowden [32]
   Information Request... - Jim Mortellaro [9]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction - Jim Mortellaro [57]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction - Larry Hatch [58]
   Re: Sightings Report OZ FILE Posted 1/15/00 - Jan M. Pheneger [67]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Tony Spurrier [24]

  Jan 16:

   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Roy J Hale [68]
   New Zealand Sightings 12-99 to 10-00 - Diane Harrison [80]
   Radio Controlled Balloons at 24km/h - Tony Robb [48]
   Tonight - Jan Aldrich on 'Strange Days... Indeed' - EBK [42]
   UFO Net Site Moved - Anthony Chippendale [10]
   CPR-Canada News: 'Wireless Flash News' & Radio - Paul Anderson - TMP /
   CPR-Canada [69]
   [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 20000116 - Bufo Calvin [267]
   TMP News: Chemtrails - TMP Magazine Article and - Paul Anderson - TMP /
   CPR-Canada [53]
   Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death? - Sean Jones [70]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Tony Spurrier [115]

  Jan 17:

   Re: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death? - Mac Tonnies [74]
   Re: UFO Net Site Moved - Roy J Hale [14]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Roy J Hale [155]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #334 - Alfred Lehmberg [87]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Tony Spurrier [100]
   Telescopes Spot An Unseen Cosmos - Royce J. Myers III [77]
   Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter - Bill Alford [57]
   Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [108]

  Jan 18:

   'Mission To Mars' - Synopsis - UFO UpDates - Toronto [14]
   UFO Report: Hamilton, Ohio - 01-17-00 - Kenny Young [70]
   Ed Dames Gets Sued - Royce J. Myers III [263]
   Taiwan MND Confirms Incoming UFOs From China - Diane Lovett [34]
   Triangular UFO Sighting - Joseph Trainor [84]

  Jan 19:

   Comet Debris Rains on Spain - UFO UpDates - Toronto [19]
   Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Nick Balaskas [101]
   Comet Debris Rains on Spain - UFO UpDates - Toronto [19]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Robert Gates [22]
   Meteor Explodes In Air Near Alaska, Yukon Border - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [28]
   NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting - UFO UpDates - Toronto [79]
   Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain - Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [20]
   Triangular UFO Sighting - Victor J.Kean [12]
   Re: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death? - Brian Straight [21]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [30]
   Ovni Over Acapulco Mexico - Guillermo Alarcon [26]
   Strange Encounter With An Unknown Vehicle - Michael C Harman [193]
   Re: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting - Bruce Maccabee [49]
   Oberg On FTs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [96]
   Why Cydonia Should Be Reimaged Regardless of Anomalies - Mac Tonnies
   [86]
   Nevada 'UFO' A Test Missile - Blair Cummins [34]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [42]
   Re: Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites - James Easton
   [172]

  Jan 20:

   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Dennis Stacy [31]
   Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain - Sharon Kardol [51]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Brian Straight [24]
   Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Rogere Evans [54]
   Satellite Detection Of Alaska Bolide - Bob Young [17]
   TMP News: News Briefing - January 20, 2000 - Paul Anderson [137]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [60]
   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Jim Deardorff [82]
   AA Film 'Experts' - Philip Mantle [18]
   The Prophets Conference - Santa Fe - prophets@maui.net [45]

  Jan 21:

   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - John Ratcliff [38]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [83]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - UFO UpDates - Toronto [47]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Rebecca Keith [67]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Steven W. Kaeser [45]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger R. Prokic [45]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00491 20.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [53]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00492 20.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [50]
   Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Mac Tonnies [117]
   Re: AA Film 'Experts' - Dan Geib [35]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Dave Bowden [25]
   Filer's Files #3 -2000 Space Awakening - George A. Filer [419]
   Bennewitz's Report To APRO - Josh Goldstein [29]
   Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain - Jim Mortellaro [109]

  Jan 22:

   Buffs Baffled By UFO - UFO UpDates - Toronto [126]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Mac Tonnies [72]
   Bovine Intervention - UFO UpDates - Toronto [88]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #335 - Alfred Lehmberg [63]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [74]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [258]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Stan Friedman [27]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [88]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Serge Salvaille [39]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Dave Bowden [58]
   Re: AA Film 'Experts' - Philip Mantle [37]
   TMP News: News Briefing - January 22, 2000 - Paul Anderson [44]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Serge Salvaille [28]
   1903 Sighting in Akron, Ohio - Blair Cummins [24]
   William J. Birnes Press Release - Blair Cummins [34]
   CPR-Canada News: Upcoming CBC Programs On '99 - Paul Anderson [44]
   NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Dan Geib [81]
   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Josh Goldstein [91]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - - Roger Evans [12]
   UFO ROUNDUP Volume 5 Number 3 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [384]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Lan Fleming [80]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Lan Fleming [9]
   Seeing Is Believing - Or Is It - Steven Miles Lewis [91]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Mac Tonnies [52]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961 - Diane Harrison [67]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Roy J Hale [19]
   Re: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting - Todd Lemire [64]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Jim Mortellaro [79]
   CPR-Canada News: Colin Andrews Diagnosed with Skin - Paul Anderson [62]
   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Dennis Stacy [14]

  Jan 23:

   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Dennis Stacy [51]
   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Dennis Stacy [24]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999 - Diane Harrison [51]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 18.10.1999 - Diane Harrison [62]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 22.11.1996 - Diane Harrison [65]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 01.07.1999 - Diane Harrison [54]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 001- Bundaberg - Diane Harrison
   [50]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Paul B. Thompson [17]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999 - Diane Harrison [55]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 002- Bundaberg - Diane Harrison
   [51]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 15.07.1999 - Diane Harrison [51]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 1980's - Diane Harrison [86]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961 - Diane Harrison [67]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Jim Mortellaro
   [77]

  Jan 24:

   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00458 02.01.00 - Diane Harrison [40]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File QB0027 17.12.99 - Diane Harrison [73]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Dave Bowden [60]
   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Jim Deardorff [47]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Jerome Clark [41]
   TMP News: News Briefing - January 23, 2000 - Paul Anderson [50]
   Cydonian Imperative: Common Arguments Against - Mac Tonnies [108]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Bob Young [14]
   Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe - Roger Evans [46]
   PRG Press Release - 1/24/00 - EXTRA Awards - Stephen G. Bassett [60]
   Re: 'Starfield Camo' Page Updated - Kenny Young [10]
   X-PPAC Press Release - 1/25/00 - Stephen G. Bassett [41]

  Jan 25:

   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Dave Bowden [28]
   More On Alaska Fireball - Bob Young [37]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Roger R. Prokic [36]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [48]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Jim Mortellaro [48]
   Cydonian Imperative: Thoughts on Extraterrestrial - Alintelbot@aol.com
   [189]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Nick Balaskas [28]
   TMP News: News Briefing - January 25, 2000 - Paul Anderson [64]
   Re: 'Starfield Camo' Page Updated - Larry Hatch [24]
   UFOR Lists Deleted By ONELIST - Francisco Lopez [14]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Serge Salvaille [43]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - ed gehrman [132]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [35]
   Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True? - Greg Sandow [33]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality - Jim Mortellaro
   [63]
   Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists - Kenny Young [215]
   The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [32]
   Skeptics Question Midwest Sightings - Blair Cummins [151]

  Jan 26:

   Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain - Diane Harrison [125]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Brian Cuthbertson [29]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [170]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Michael Christol [94]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Mac Tonnies [46]
   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings - Lesley Cluff [53]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Lesley Cluff [37]
   AL <squared> TV - Alfred Lehmberg [19]
   Mars Polar Lander Mission Status - January 25, 2000 -
   baalke@jpl.nasa.gov [58]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - "Steven W. Kaeser" [91]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Bob Young [36]
   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings - Jerome Clark [40]
   TMP News: News Briefing - January 26, 2000 - Paul Anderson [38]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Bruce Maccabee [1363]
   From The Sceptic's Tank... - Jeff Westover [31]
   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings - GT McCoy [73]
   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Thomas E Morris [27]
   Re: T.T.Brown? - Werner Walter [5]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [39]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [24]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [51]
   Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain - Jim Mortellaro [96]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Sean Jones [20]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Lesley Cluff [79]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [34]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - John Velez [42]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - John Velez [55]
   T.T.Brown? - Philippe Piet van Putten [23]
   Re: T.T.Brown? - Jess Fritch [17]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Michael Christol [36]

  Jan 27:

   Re: The Eyes Have It - Brian Cuthbertson [48]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [177]
   Re: T.T.Brown? - Patrick Bailey [16]
   60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Kelly McGillis [279]
   Re: From The Sceptic's Tank... - Marty [46]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Mac Tonnies [24]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Mac Tonnies [22]
   Re: From The Sceptic's Tank... - Marty Murray [46]
   Re: From The Sceptic's Tank... - Mac Tonnies [28]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Mac Tonnies [33]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Cinde Costello [52]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Rick Goldsmith [71]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Lesley Cluff [50]
   CPR-Canada News: eYada.com Interview - Paul Anderson [48]
   Re: Dr John Lundy? - Philip Mantle [6]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Neil Morris [123]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Chris Kelly [16]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Neil Morris [67]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - John Velez [75]
   TMP News: News Briefing - January 27, 2000 - Paul Anderson [42]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Jim Mortellaro [53]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Stan Friedman [90]
   How Life May Live On Europa - Steven L. Wilson Sr [51]
   Re: From The Sceptic's Tank... - Bob Young [29]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Stephen Miles Lewis [39]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Stephen Miles Lewis
   [46]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 4 - Joseph Trainor [544]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [54]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [40]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [31]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Sean Jones [27]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [28]
   Who is Alexander Kazantzev? - Richard D. Nolane [16]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Sean Jones [15]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Jim Mortellaro [126]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Neil Morris [35]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Marty Murray [32]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [134]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Stan Friedman [22]
   CONAIPO Information - Victor Quezada [62]

  Jan 28:

   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Michael Christol [126]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Jim Mortellaro [89]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Roger Evans [21]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Bob Young [43]
   Cydonian Imperative: Questions for Debunkers - Mac Tonnies [116]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Lesley Cluff [107]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Steven W. Kaeser [128]

  Jan 29:

   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Neil Morris [85]
   Debris Film - Philip Mantle [18]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Bob Young [58]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Jerome Clark [48]
   New Images from Mexico - Dan Geib [13]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Neil Morris [161]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [91]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility - Jim Mortellaro [46]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - C D Conrad [88]
   New Energy in Debate Over Alien Life - Royce J. Myers III [45]
   Marconi experiments in the 20's - Joaquim Fernandes [25]
   Sanskrit Scholars, Help! - Joeseph Trainor [10]
   Re: Get COMETA - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Filer's Files #4 -- 2000 - George A. Filer [490]
   Re: Filer's Files #02 - 2000 Political Awakening - Stephen G. Bassett
   [17]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - John Velez [75]
   Sims Funding - Philip Mantle [47]
   Get COMETA - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Michael Christol [91]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Michael Christol [59]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Larry Hatch [62]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Larry Hatch [42]
   Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #336 - Alfred Lehmberg [93]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Bob Young [26]
   Betty Hill, k.t. Frankovich on Middleton Radio - Philip Mantle [19]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Todd Lemire [62]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Steven W. Kaeser [125]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Larry Hatch [38]
   History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now' - Stan Friedman [9]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [116]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [91]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [30]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [36]
   Re: History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now' - Alfred Lehmberg [29]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Victor J.Kean [14]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Terry Blanton [45]

  Jan 30:

   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [27]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Ed Gehrman [20]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Jim Mortellaro [58]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Bob Young [24]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Bill Weber [60]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Jim Mortellaro [77]
   Naked With Aliens - Kelly McGillis [197]
   TMP News: News Briefing - January 29, 2000 - Paul Anderson [52]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To - Sean Jones [12]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Jerome Clark [49]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - royjhale [33]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - ed gehrman [21]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Terry Blanton [20]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Jsmortell@aol.com [54]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Larry Hatch [22]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Cheyne D. Conrad [181]
   Re: Who is Alexander Kazantzev? - Alex Persky [59]
   UFO/Fireball Event In Argentina On Jan.25 - Patricia Mason [28]
   Guests/Stories/Reports For New Talk Show - Stefan Duncan [28]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Neil Morris [174]
   Tonight - Lindy Tucker on 'Strange Days... Indeed' - EBK [33]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Jim Mortellaro [23]
   60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Bob Young [36]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Terry Blanton [44]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Greg Sandow [47]
   CPR-Canada News: Update on Colin Andrews' - Paul Anderson [42]
   Re: TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00 - Paul Anderson [96]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [82]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - John Velez [108]
   TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00 - Paul Anderson [94]
   AL <squared> TV #2 - Alfred Lehmberg [17]

  Jan 31:

   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Steven W. Kaeser [231]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Jerome Clark [78]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Michael Christol [72]
   Re: The Eyes Have It - Dave Bowden [26]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00505 03.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [61]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00465.07.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [99]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00506 03.01.2000 - Diane Harrison [63]
   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00510 31.1.2000 - Diane Harrisona [76]
   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Steven W. Kaeser [101]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Larry Hatch [34]
   Steve Johnson? - Philip Mantle [7]
   Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain - Wendy Christensen [24]
   What's On Your Mind? - Kelly McGillis [300]
   Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain - Serge Salvaille [24]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Greg Sandow [37]
   Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain - Sean Jones [54]
   Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain - John [77]
   Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility... - Donald Ledgerd [35]
   Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain - Jim Mortellaro [91]

  Jan 30:

   Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip - Roger Evans [53]
   Rotating Objects = No Memory - Kelly McGillis [68]
   Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes - Joseph Polanik [60]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 1

                              Re: Documentary?

From: Sam Sherman <FLEXARET2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:02:20 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:10:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Documentary?


 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:30:08 -0800
 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >Subject: Re: Documentary?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:33:50 -0500
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Documentary?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 01:37:21 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Sam Sherman <FLEXARET2@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Documentary?
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>I watched this show last night and seem to remember seeing it
 >>>once before about a year ago. It ran on the United Paramount
 >>>Network of independent and owned stations. It was produced by
 >>>Triage, the former producers of 'Sightings'. It may have been
 >>>updated now.

 >>If this shows the Aug 7, 1997 Mexico City video of a "huge" UFO
 >>passing behind buildings, then it was shown in the spring of
 >>1998.

 >>Subsequent investigation has shown that the Mexico City video
 >>has "fingerprints of a hoax" and the Phoenix lights which were
 >>videotaped by several people were likely flares abou 80 miles
 >>south of Phoenix.

 >>These cases have all been discussed on the net. I suggest going
 >>to UFOMIND and looking up Mexico City and Phoenix.

 >It's important to emphasize that these "fingerprints" of a hoax,
 >in the Mexico City case, do not provide evidence of a hoax in
 >any way as convincing as fingerprints in a detective case, since
 >the causative agent appears to be alien intelligence whose state
 >of evolution could be thousands or even millions of years ahead
 >of our own. If one wishes to assume it was a hoax, they must
 >assume that:

<snip>

The Mexico City footage looks like a light object pulled by a
wire having little or no mass as we know it. The shape and its
rotation are somewhat compelling even so, as is the testimony of
the 2 witnesses on the show, while others were mentioned. What
is suspicious is the mysterious way the footage was first
delivered.

Having the testimony of an eye witness, who is credible is
essential to confirming UFO/sighting/photography.

As for the agenda of ETs..... How many types are there, from
where, how do they live, what is their social structure and what
do they want?? And..... how many angels can dance on the head of
a pin...?

- Sam Sherman






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 1

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Sam Sherman <FLEXARET2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:20:35 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 20:15:45 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


I will be glad to help Philip Mantle with his book on the Alien
Autopsy.

All he has to do is get his friend Ray Santilli to supply a foot
or so of the original footage. Write to me here at this email
address and I will provide my film company's mailing address.

Then we will fairly analyze the footage and issue a report to
Philip.

We may agree that the footage is authentic or disagree. I would
drop all preconceived notions in light of testing the footage.

Until I can make a hands-on analysis, or somebody else in the
film field does their own credible analysis, this whole subject
can take a walk.

- Sam Sherman







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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 1

                         Re: Filer's Files #52--1999

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:39:46 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:09:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #52--1999

Happy New Year

Filer's Files #52--1999,MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
December 31, 1999,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Free Daily UFO/ET E-mail Newsletter: http://www.ufonetwork.com/
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. Chuck Warren Webmaster.

THE GREAT AWAKENING FOR A REMARKABLE NEW CENTURY

It is obvious that there is new interest and excitement over the
realization that UFOs are real, and we might not be alone in the
universe. To sum up my knowledge as an Ufologist, I have learned
that most media personnel, scientists, military, congressional
and government employees know very little about UFOs. Most have
never studied the subject or been privy to highly classified and
compartmentalized data.  You the average reader know a great
deal more than 99% of these people. Most of you have visited web
sites with released government documents that indicate about 30%
of the sightings are unknowns and insufficient information. We
are in a sense the teachers and experts. You are very important
to the future of our world because of this knowledge. Recently
there have been more than 400 sightings reported each month by
concerned witnesses. The majority of these reports involve
multiple witnesses who spend several hours reporting their
sighting.  The craft are frequently seen at low altitudes well
below normal air traffic. Most of the observations were for
several minutes' duration. This is very different from a
conventional aircraft conducting normal business; they seldom
stay in view for more than a minute.  Often the reports involve
an object hovering just above the trees.  We are also obtaining
more frequent UFO reports from pilots and radar operators. Many
of my Air Force friends and I have chased them.  I've met with
several of our astronauts who have seen them.  We are obtaining
video footage from our Space Shuttle missions that show them.
Our satellites and Deep Space Sensors are also observing them.
When we send our probes to Mars less than a third make it
through. I feel the "Environmental Space Sciences" book authored
by Colonel Don G. Carpenter and taught at the United States Air
Force Academy is correct. Page 696 states: "From available
information, the UFO phenomenon may have been global in nature
for almost 50,000 years." (snip) "This leaves us with the
unpleasant possibility of alien visitors to our planet, or at
least of alien controlled UFOs."  If these craft and their crews
have come to earth on a regular basis, we can assume they have
influenced our lives throughout history.

We are nearing the time for elections for many politicians. I
encourage you to support those candidates that will not be
stonewalled by pat answers to the UFO problem.  Jimmy Carter had
his own sighting and ran partially on a platform to provide
answers about UFOs. After being elected, he ignored the subject
and still does today. John Moss a California politician is the
author of the Freedom of Information Act.  He was surprised to
learn that its primary use is for obtaining information on UFOs.
They remain of great interest to the American people. I have
been writing Filer's Files for three years and sending it out to
several hundred people a week. A few months ago Chuck Warren
volunteered to build a Web Site for me. I want to thank Chuck
for his hard work. During December, a half million people
visited our Web Site. This is proof of the amazing interest in
UFOs. I want to thank my wife Janet for making these Files
possible, she goes to work selling real estate, while I stay
home and put them together.

Its time to say farewell to the 1900s, where I learned a couple
important lessons in my life that you might enjoy. (1) Love one
another, especially your spouse! (2) UFOs are real and we owe
allot to great persons like Major Donald Keyhoe, Leonard
Stringfield, J. Allen Hynek, Karla Turner, and James McDonald
who have passed on in the search for the truth. (3) Ancient
religious writings have great wisdom. I encourage everyone to
receive the comfort of religious faith in his or her life. (4) I
learned that when you see certain code words such as fire in the
sky and clouds in ancient religious writings, they mean UFOs.
The Bible, Book of Dyzon, Koran, Maha-Brharata, and Torah are
some of the best UFO books ever written. (5) Wars are bad, its
time to stop them. (6) It is important to search for the truth
since it is the foundation of all knowledge. Schools that don't
teach about the various religions fail to produce well-rounded
students. (7) Our search for the truth over the Internet builds
friendships that can change the world. I look forward to a
happy, progressive, prosperous, and wonderful future together.
Happy New Year.

RECENT NASA SHUTTLE FLIGHTS SHOW UFOs?

Videos take from Shuttle Flights, STS 48, 80, 96 and 103 show
anomalies that appear to be unexplained fast moving unidentified
flying objects.  Sam Sherman an expert in filming, Dr. Jack
Kasher a Ph.D. in physics and many other experts have questioned
NASA's forth rightness in explaining the anomalous objects as
ice crystals or camera lens smudges.  Sam writes: "I am a
longtime film producer. Recently working on documentary films, I
have had cooperation from various divisions of NASA and I can
tell you that this entire subject has not been thrown away by
them as being of no importance.  Furthermore, I also have D-2
Digital Video clones of the NASA Master tapes of the STS-48
event which I have taken to a high end video studio for
analysis. I can report that our initial study reveals that the
subject cannot be easily explained away.  Physicist Dr. Jack
Kasher has written a book on the STS-48 events, which has his
scientific analysis and is quite compelling. Without knowing the
exact technical specs of the camera being used to record the
STS-48 events, including Lens formula and specs. Video pickup
CCD or tubes and other information, these multiple and different
visual events cannot be simply explained away. The STS-48 tapes
show at least a dozen or more distinct events each different
from one another and not commonly seen on other shuttle tapes.
If these were normal occurrences they should been seen in repeat
viewing as commonly noted visual events which could be exactly
identified as what normal occurrences they are, not merely
explained away to conveniently drop the subject.  When I state
that NASA has refused to give me technical information to be
used in making a further analysis of the tapes, that is the
specific truth.

As media, we are entitled to get this information, unless it is
classified, from a US Government agency. The refusal by NASA to
deal with the subject with us clearly indicates to me that the
subject may have some part of US security implications, which
their sister agency DOD does not wish to have media light shined
on. When our questions are properly answered by NASA we will
complete a fair evaluation of the tapes, regardless which way
the answers should result.  The failure to deliver such
information, gives the conclusion that NASA has something to
hide.  Thanks to Sam Sherman. Editor's Note: NASA is spending
billions of taxpayers dollars to find life on Mars.  Most of
their recent satellite missions to Mars are a failure, including
the last two. Whoopie Goldberg, stated yesterday, "It appears
the Martians don't want us there."

CONNECTICUT BLUE BALL OF LIGHT

YANTIC -- Neaba writes that on December 22, 1999, at 6:12 PM, I
was driving my car and looking for the last full moon of the
year.  It was reported to be the brightest in 122 years.
Suddenly a bright blue white ball went past flying west to east
in the sky. I saw this for only a few seconds.  It had no tail
and did not change color in the short time it was visible.
Thanks to Neaba.

NEW YORK UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT VIDEOTAPED BY DR. CORNET

PINE BUSH -- On December 18, 1999, Dr. Bruce Cornet took Herm
Fischer, a colleague from California, on a tour of the Wallkill
River Valley, where he had conducted seven years of research on
the Pine Bush Phenomenon.  Sightings of Anomalistic
Observational Phenomena (AOP) activity in Pine Bush has been
rare in the last two years.  Cornet and Fischer spent several
hours watching from a farm field near the old Jewish Cemetery on
Route 52. All they saw were conventional aircraft.  At about
8:40 disappointed they began their trip back home. They drove to
the town of Walden and then took Rte 208 south to I-84.  As they
approached a traffic light just before the super highway
interchange Cornet spotted a bright light off in the distance,
which seemed to be pacing their car. Fischer was driving. Cornet
had his camcorder ready, because on several occasions in the
past AOP had shown up either just before or just after he got on
the highway. At 9:00 PM, Cornet began videotaping the light
through the windshield of their Chevy Impala. The AOP seemed to
be pacing the car. That fact became clear when Fischer stopped
for a red light and the AOP slowed down and stopped also. The
light was to the left of and ahead of the car, and in view by
both driver and passenger. It was about a mile away when it
stopped in midair.  Cornet suggested that when the traffic light
turned green, he should pull over to the shoulder of the road
and stop, which Fischer did next to an industrial park. The AOP
moved forward with the car, and then stopped again as the car
stopped. The AOP reversed direction and headed back towards
them.  Cornet zoomed in on the AOP as it made a rapid approach.
The AOP descended rapidly from the southeast as if simulating a
conventional aircraft on approach to an airport runway, but
there is no airport in the area.  To their surprise the AOP
descended below roof top level and behind a cluster of buildings
across the road.  There was no crash or explosion.  They drove
back and checked out the area to make sure there was not a
landing strip or place there where a plane could land. Bruce
states, "We finally had to accept the fact that we had been had,
the Pine Bush Phenomenon had struck again!!"  A 37 second video
was shot with a Sony Handycam video Hi 8, model CCD-TRV81.

The Pine Bush Phenomenon is not dead, just mostly dormant. It
may be waiting for us to develop a strategy, a plan, and a
method for analyzing the information they are willing to give
us. That will require the use of the latest instruments and
technology available, which means that it will cost a lot. It
will also require more mainstream scientists and engineers to
become challenged by the phenomenon and want to investigate it.
It will require government and/or private funding to pay for the
salaries of those who are hired to work on the project. It will
require the very same type of effort NASA employs to send probes
to Mars. It is time for a change. Anomalistic Observational
Phenomena will not go quietly into the night and disappear. The
methods and tactics of ridicule, disinformation, and
unavailability of funding used to date have not worked in
silencing the phenomenon. They have instead made humans look
stupid. Are you one of them? Let's prove that humans can
investigate a phenomenon which appears to challenge conventional
science, and do it correctly and with conviction and funding. In
the past humans studied life on this planet which is less
intelligent than us. The tables may have been reversed. For the
first time modern scientists are studying an intelligence equal
to or greater than our own (certainly one that possesses
technology that surpasses human technology).  Are we up to the
challenge? I think so.  Detailed analysis of the case may be
seen at:  http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/cornetbr1/uturn.htm
Thanks to Bruce Cornet. bcornet@monmouth.com Editor's Note: I've
gone hunting with Bruce and also video taped some very strange
lights.

NEW JERSEY TEARDROP UFO

WOODBRIDGE - December 10, 1999, On three separate occasions over
a three-minute span, we saw objects moving around and
interweaving with each other at a high speed and they appeared
to be moving upward. On a clear, cold, windy night at 9:30 PM,
two witnesses who had never seen anything like this before. The
lights were so fast compared to an airliner. They also
disappeared very quickly. We have never seen anything so
spectacular before. Thanks to Peter Davenport, NUFORC.

LUMBERTON - On December 26, 1999, a large Flying Wing was
spotted in the night sky at 8:30 PM coming from the north.  It
had six large brilliant lights shining forward on each wing.
Three witnesses observed the craft flying at approximately 2,000
feet.  Its size appeared much larger than any other aircraft in
the night sky.  It made a sweeping turn over the South Jersey
Regional Airport and headed west towards Philadelphia.  There
were no blinking strobe or standard warning lights visible.
Only a large red light was visible behind the forward lights.
Thanks to Anastasia.

GEORGIA LIGHTS AND UFO

BLAIRSVILLE -- Tom Sheets, MUFON's State Director writes, "Our
fellow member Carroll Watts sent me an update before leaving on
a holiday trip.  He indicated that on the evening of the
December 22, 1999, an object or light was spotted.  It
apparently remained in the area and was also observed the next
morning from darkness up to 7:45 AM, first in the SW, then
moving incredibly fast to the SE.  Carroll observed with
binoculars and saw red, green and blue lights, changing colors
rapidly, shimmering, with the standard erratic movement.  He
also observed smaller objects that were ejected from the larger,
then returning after going only a short distance.

MOULTRIE -- On December 26, 1999, about 9:00 PM, I received a
call from what we believe to be a reliable source.  He indicated
that he was right at that moment watching a bright white star
like object about 35 degrees above the SE horizon (this is flat
rural area, dark as a coal mine). He indicated that it was
making all sorts of erratic movements back and forth, moving in
an area larger than the spread hand extended AAL.  He viewed it
through binoculars, but it did not reveal any detail. MUFONGAs
Earle Blanton may be able to spot it if it returns.

TROUP COUNTY -- John Thompson reports that on Monday morning a
44-year-old landowner and his 12-year-old son came in my office
and related a dramatic on December 26, 1999, close-encounter. At
8:15 PM the father was outside his truck listening for the bay
of coonhounds in a nearby patch of woods. Standing on a hill on
Dennis Smith Road he saw a large, round, white-yellow light
approach from the west-southwest. His son who was still in the
pickup said, "Daddy, look at that plane." The father replied,
"It's not a plane. Get out and look!"  By this time the unknown
"plane," according to father and son, was at ground level and
jumping a stand of pine trees to avoid hitting them. As the boy
hurriedly exited the parked pickup, the cab and bed lights of
the truck came on. Immediately, the UFO did a "zigzag" maneuver.
Going first left (north), straight (WSW), right (south) and then
left again, it arched upward.  While flying in front of the
witnesses, who were facing north, the UFO had the appearance of
a huge meteor. The round or egg-shape UFO, however, had a thin,
gray, "belt-like" horizontal line across its middle. Behind the
ball was a stream of "sparks" and "ashes." The combined ball and
sparks gave the craft a teardrop shape. At no time was any sound
heard. The UFO according to the landowner, whose property the
UFO crossed at its closest, flew at speeds of fighter jets seen
swooshing by in the past. This would be approximately 400 knots.

Because the father's total familiarity with the land, he
estimated that the UFO covered over a mile in ten seconds.  At
its closest, the UFO was only 200 yards away when the cab and
bed lights of the truck came on. It is the witnesses' distinct
impression that the UFO somehow sensed the lights coming on and
flew the zigzag pattern as a means to evade, perhaps, ground
fire. On completing its zigzag, the UFO did not continue its
straight-line path as before. The father and son said they lost
sight of the UFO as it flew upward. The white-yellow light
around the craft and backend sparks "turned off." Instead, what
remained was only a faint red ball that quickly dimmed to
nothing.  They are unsure if the UFO accelerated out of sight or
turned back to the west. In any event, the father feels the UFO
was mimicking a fireball as a form of camouflage. This
camouflage he says was turned off by intelligent control.  It
can be speculated on leaving straight away that the red exhaust
of the UFO's engine was only seen. The father believes that what
he saw was not a true UFO; rather, it was an exotic stealth
cruise missile. If so, it can be presumed that the car size
missile was partially guided by onboard, terrain hugging, radar
controls. The missile would have also needed infrared or laser
sensors to take the evasive action it did after detecting the
nearby flashes of light.  The local authorities have no reports.
The father and son said there were eight airplanes flying in the
area at the time of their sighting. The UFO had an apparent size
at 200 yards of slightly larger than a full moon.  At no time
did the UFO appear high enough for radar detection. After
newspaper reports that the shuttle, perhaps, was mistaken for a
UFO in south Mississippi around the same time of the LaGrange
incident, the witnesses were re-interviewed. This, they said,
was "not the shuttle!"  There have been many reports of several
types of UFOs in Troup and Harris counties in the last 60 days.
The reports come from multiple first and second hand sources.
Some of the sightings have been low enough to illuminate the
ground beneath. Weather conditions were excellent visibility,
unlimited ceiling, and temperature 34 F. with 5-10 mph northwest
wind. Copyright 1999, John C.Thompson. All rights reserved.

MISSISSIPPI

MADISON -- Benjamin Kenneth McGill, reports he observed a fast
moving object on December 26, 1999, at 8:00 PM on I-55 south.
It looked just like a shooting star, except it was going much
slower and we could see that it was leaving a long tail with
pieces of fire falling from it. It was not descending it was
flying on a level plane in a northwest heading. Thanks to Ben
McGill, Madison, MS. 39110

Ken Fink and Todd Twilley of the Sun Herald reports that several
reports of a UFO came in to local authorities and the Sun Herald
concerning a sighting on December 26. 1999, at 7:00 PM.  Keesler
Air Force Base and the Ocean Spring Police Department both
received calls of a white light streaking across the sky headed
in a northern direction around.  An Ocean Springs police
dispatcher said personnel at Gulfport-Biloxi Regional Airport
said they saw the object as well.  A caller to the Sun Herald
described the object as a white light with a tail and sparks.
Witnesses said the object was moving too slowly to have been a
meteorite. NASA stated the STS 103 Shuttle passed over New
Orleans at 5:34 PM, and over Natchez at 5:42 PM Sunday night,"
said Lanee Cooksey, a spokeswoman at the John C. Stennis Space
Center reported the Discovery passed over the Coast at an
altitude of 368 miles and a speed of 16,926 mph covering 280
miles per minute. For shuttle info go to:
www.spaceflight.nasa.gov. Editors Note: The times are over an
hour apart, so it seems unlikely the eastern moving shuttle that
passed over in seconds is responsible for all the reports.

FLORIDA UFO

ORLANDO -- On Sunday night December 12, 1999, I went outside on
my patio and noticed this bright object in the air at 8:10 PM.
At first I though it was a couple of planes. But to my surprise
it was a UFO floating in the air. It was a bright around circle
of lights floating in the sky.  It looked like a mountain of
diamonds brightly shinning. It was floating down. It was bright
lights and had an oval shape on top and under the bottom of the
round circle. Under the bottom of the object it had like a black
shadow. I ran downstairs to my friend's house and told her to
come outside and to see. By the time she came out the UFO was
still there and she saw it. It was floating down and going
behind a building. There were planes flying very low in a
circle.  I went back upstairs and try to use my computer and it
was not working right. The next day at work, many of the
computers seemed effected.  Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director,
NUFORC, www.ufocenter.com

ARKANSAS LIGHT

HOT SPRINGS -- Jessie Grider writes on December 23, that for
months now I have been seeing a strange light over the city as I
drive home from work down Malvern Avenue.  At first I speculated
that I was seeing an airplane, but after seeing one again
tonight I feel that it is definitely not a plane. I would call
it a UFO or it could be something experimental that the public
is not aware of. The light blinks very fast like a strobe light
and is usually white but I have seen other colors.  It moves
very fast in a straight line and blinks very fast, not like the
slow steady blink of an airplane. Somehow I get the impression
that it knows I see it, because as I look at it, it usually just
blinks out a few seconds later. It is very reliable; I have been
seeing one in the sky almost every night on my way home from
work.  I just wanted to report it; maybe someone in the area can
set up a video camera and get some film of it. Thanks to: Jessie
Grider jgrider@ipa.net

OREGON SIGHTING

COOS BAY -- I experienced a UFO sighting on December 20, 1999,
to be exact at about 5:35 PM.  The object was low in the
southern sky appeared to rise slowly, got very bright, white
with an orangish cast, flickered and shimmered at its height it
got as bright as anything I've ever seen in the sky.  At least
3-4 times that or Venus the slowly went out with an afterglow
like something very hot cooling off. This all occurred on a
clear twilight night.  I'm a former Professional Pilot currently
sell Real Estate. Also, my wife and I experienced two orange-red
lights that did a similar thing about two years ago in February
97.'  Curiously that was also near the Full Moon, also.  Another
thing was the proximity of some sort of little putt-putt type
aircraft--either that or they hide behind a hologram of a
Cessna.  I had friend whose career as an UPS pilot was nearly
ruined because he came forward.  Thanks to UPS pilot.

TEXAS GOLDEN FLYING TRIANGLE

BEAMOUNT -- On December 10, when I saw my golden triangular
object, I really hoped it was a sign, an angel.  I have read
several things on the Internet since then.  Some say that the
aliens we see, UFO's, are the fallen angels, bad angels.  I want
to believe that my golden object is a good angel from heaven,
maybe God just letting us know that he is real and he is in
control.  I have also heard several accounts in the Bible talk
of UFO's.  Deep in your heart, what do you really think?  Do you
think someone or something is trying to communicate with us?  Do
you think the scriptures in the Bible are really talking about
UFO's?  Thanks to sankysue13. Editor's Note: Yes, they are.

TEXAS SIGHTING

SAN Antonio - Carol Potter writes my boyfriend and I were
watching the sky on December 19, 1999, about 5:00 AM, when we
saw a shooting star like object overhead. It flew by and burned
as if hitting the atmosphere and went out. Then it became a
light again, flew a little way, went out, came back on, and went
out. This kept up until it flew out of our sight. It was
definitely not a plane or a satellite.  About 10 minutes later
in the northern part of the sky, a very bright object appeared.
It was much brighter than a star. It got bright then dimmed and
floated away. I was able to see it through some high powered
binoculars and it looked like there were two objects. They moved
towards each other then went in opposite directions and
disappeared.  We watch the sky almost every weekend. We have
seen a lot of strange things, but these were the strangest by
far. If you have any info, it would be appreciated.   Thanks to
Carol Potter martell_@swbell.net


US GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO
Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign
Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now
available for distribution to the public.  Sam Sherman's audio
documentary tape called THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on
the night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings
provided by the Air Force.  During this event 12 high tech
luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over the
runways at Edwards AFB.  Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels
spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command.  Sgt. Sorrels
is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment where he
verifies the event as it is heard on the archival recordings.
The UFOs are described and a decision is made to launch F-106
fighter interceptors.  You are there for an important part of
UFO history.  Hear it for yourself, it's the best UFO tape ever
made.  Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00 for shipping -- total
$16.95 -- (for overseas orders-out of US - add $6.00 shipping
cost -- total -- $20.95) you can send either a personal check or
money order to: Independent International Pictures Corp, Box
565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New Jersey 08857.

THREE YEARS OF FILER'S FILES -- 1997, 1998, and 1999 on CD or
Floppy Disc for only $25.00. The cost includes handling and
shipping. An index is included. Send a check to George Filer,
222 Jackson Road Medford, New Jersey 08055.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting  Mufon@aol.com. Mention I sent
you.  Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer, all
rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their
Web Sites provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared. Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com.  If you
wish to keep your name confidential please so state.












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   Jan > Jan 1

                                  Re: Corso

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:40:04 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Corso


 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:06:45 +0000
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Corso
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:41:27 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Corso
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snips>

 >>To David and Stan,

 >>I met briefly with Lt-Col Corso, in Italy (San Marino), in April
 >>1998, shortly before his death. I asked him if he could give me
 >>exactly his posts for that period. He wrote, on the first page
 >>of my copy of his book these words:

 >>US Army Research and Development Division

 >>Chief of the Foreign Technology Division

 >>Plans Division of the US Army Research and Development"

 >>This seems to be compatible with the record you quote?

 >>May I add that I found Philip Corso te be a decent and likable
 >>person. He was very calm, discreet, even serene, not the behavior
 >>to be expected of a psychotic liar hungry for money and fame.

Dearest John, List,

I just had to write to you, John, in order to cauterize the hole
in my bile duct and staunch the flow of blood, venom and last
night's dinner.

 >And just how would you expect a "psychotic liar hungry for
 >money" to actually behave? Standing on his head wearing his
 >underpants and juggling the fish-knives? Doesn't it occur to
 >you that someone who _is_ a scam-artist out for the money (and
 >I don't know enough to say what the situation was with Corso,
 >he may just have been a nice but confused old gent) is going to
 >be as nice as pie to everyone he meets, charming, discreet and
 >serenne all the way to the bank.

Cheeses John, Corso is " ... a psychotic liar hungry for money
and fame ..."?

And he (Corso):
 >_is_ a scam-artist out for the money (and I
 >don't know enough to say what the situation was with Corso, he
 >may just have been a nice but confused old gent) is going to be
 >as nice as pie to everyone he meets, charming, discreet and
 >serenne all the way to the bank."  ?

I suppose you know this to be a fact and can back up your
comments with proof positive from the manner in which Corso lead
his life?  You know, lied all the way to his bank with all the
money he started making as a result of his book.  Liar liar
pants on fire.  Thank you for exposing this fiend to the rest of
us maroons.

Hey, Rimmer!  You ever writ a book?  Ever dealt with a
publisher?  They are a lot like lawyers.  They promise to call
you with each new piece of evidence in your case and deliver a
positive verdict, and make you a ton of money in the process.
More than enough to pay their fee and leave a ton for you.  You
never have to call them to find out what's goin on. They call
_you_.  Every day.

Listen up pal, you don't make a lot of money with a book,
especially on _that_ subject.  And at his age, it was highly
unlikely that he would have been doing a lot of appearances on
shows which pay nothing, not even travel expenses sometimes.
San Marino aside.

Money grabbing liar?  You, sir, have a problem.

 >Ufologists logic on fraudsters seems to go: "The man is not a
 >con-artist because he doesn't look or sound like a con artist".
 >Well of course he doesn't, that's his job isn't it, he's trying
 >to get money off you. If he took your money and wasn't charming
 >and plausible, he'd be a mugger, right?

Yah, and my logic on debunkers goes, "The man is a debunker
because he looks and sounds like a con artist."  Well, of course
he does, that's his job isn't it, he's trying to get your
opinion off you? If he took your money and wasn't abnormally and
annoyingly a petulant little snit, he wouldn't be a mother in
law.... mugger, sorry.

 >It seems that some ufologists are prepared to accept that people are
 >honest so long as they're not walking along with a mask and a bag marked
 >"swag" over their shoulder; and so long as they don't wear a Napoleon
 >hat they must be perfectly sane.

Well _duh_.  It's not them folks you gotta watch out for, it's
the ones with their hand stuck inside the center of their shirts
and them silly hats.

 >>There was an official dinner at San Marino. He was there, at a
 >>large table with members of his family : his daughter in Law
 >>with her two boys.

 >>I was at the same table, with Colin Andrews, Prof Messeen among
 >>others. These members of his family had very polite manners. The
 >>boys with white shirts and ties! I wonder, would their
 >>grandfather have taken them with him if he was just an absurd
 >>liar?

I had dinner with Charley (Manson) once and he was very polite.
I see your point. Say, do you need a special hat for that or
what?

 >Nice freebie, who was paying for it? Interesting place San
 >Marino, beautiful postage stamps. Does no harm to go along with
 >dear old Uncle Phil and keep an eye on the old guy.

 >>Which does not mean, of course, that there are no mistakes
 >>in the book.

 >Really? You think so?

 >>Gildas Bourdais

 >--
 >John Rimmer
 >Magonia Magazine
 >www.magonia.demon.co.uk

Doctor J. Jaime (Hi-Mee) Gesundt,
Bagonia Magazine -  If the Foo Sh*ts, Wear It.
www.clinton.com







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   Jan > Jan 2

               Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up?

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:05:51 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:10:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up?


 >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:11:41 -0400
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<giant snip>

 >Anderson's story checks out except for the phone bill.....

 >Stan Friedman


Really? What about the suspect diary he provided? Doesn't ring
any alarm bells? And isn't it true that you sent Anderson a
packet of your own Roswell writings before conducting a series
of in-depth personal interviews with him? In hindsight, was that
a prudent thing to do -- for an investigator or a journalist?

As for the presence of a windmill, pardon me if I'm not
impressed. I don't think anyone has ever argued that Anderson
wasn't familiar with the local lay of the land. But the presence
of a windmill where Anderson remembered it hardly substantiates
the claim of a crashed saucer (with bodies) nearby.

Merry Y2K to all!

Dennis Stacy







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                         Re: Traces Of The Ancients

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 17:36:06 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:16:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients


 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 18:14:48 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >So if they're here [ETs], then it's not because we have
 >something they want, in any recognized sense.

I refer you to Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" to
see that they have been here in the past mining for gold and
other minerals. I do have disagreements with Zecharia Sitchin,
which you can see at the url given below, but I don't disagree
with him about what I wrote in the previous sentence.


Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #332

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 10:00:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:18:56 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #332


Apology to MW #332 (For January 1, 2000)

High in Chinese mountains and on the border with Tibet, a team
of archeologists were conducting digs, it's said.  The routine
exploration of a set of linking caves was detailed and
scientific -- when they came upon some graves. The graves,
arranged so neatly, were to yield what portends . . . yet
another haunting mystery -- did it happen? Bet it did.

The graves gave up their contents, and the men just stood
aghast.  Their mouths were hanging open for credulity was cast!
Within these graves the bones were *strange* -- perhaps some
kind of ape?!? The heads too large, the bones too small, and
tiny (?!) -- how they gaped! "Ape men" was a silly stretch,
these scientists were seasoned -- what kind of ape will BURY
dead? They HAD to come to reason.

And then it was they found the *stones*, and what *ape* crafted
these? Tiny hieroglyphics spun in spirals one could see. How
like a "stone age gramophone", they thought, and were to say,
but that was nineteen thirty-eight, and this is present day.
Twelve thousand years had passed to dust from times too dark and
fabled. The disks of stone were ancient, too explicably
mislabeled.  Even those who had them had no clue what they were
for -- dismissed as cultish objects, they are locked in Chinese
drawers.

The plates resemble records that a *caveman* would have played,
a big hole in the center and the spiraled tight display. The
glyphs display like feathers of a paranormal bird as they fan
imagination in the way that they've been curved. There's
nothing, then, quite like the way that they were crafted out.
There is the plate of Lollidof (another Dropa shout!), which
COULD be serendipity if there is a GRAIN of truth, but this just
won't be talked about, so some can stay aloof.

For YEARS the disks are studied, and they vex the greatest
minds. The Chinese keep it to themselves not knowing what
they'll find. They ARE so *strangely* puzzled; it's compelling,
so bizarre, 'till finally they DO crack it (!), and we see just
where we are. The contents are so shattering, tumultuous, and
sincere that the lid is clamped upon them and they're silenced
by the fear! Ridiculed, at present, by our sacrosanct *elite*,
these are stories that inflame the mind, but for SOME demand
retreat.

Dr. Tsum (?) (our brave code breaker) likely opted for
discussion. He saw the different paradigms in a burst of light's
concussion?  For years he argues quietly (he would fear the
prison camp?), but then Peking decided. They would light that
secret's lamp! The year, by now, was sixty-five, and I was still
in school; a green-eared lad of fifteen years, a sophomore . . .
a fool <g>. But I remember vaguely in a paper from a friend . .
. which spoke of Chinese UFO's -- that "Dropa" word again. And
today in nineteen ninety-nine, I see that word once more, and
the story (plus some pictures!) rather put me through the floor.

It WAS twelve thousand years ago, and from the trackless sky . .
. descends a *ship* in trouble -- call it fable, myth, or lie.
They land, contact the people, called the Ham (they lived in
caves). Some are slaughtered for their trouble, and so end their
hapless days. They're hunted down on horseback, "gaunt and
yellow" -- not like men. Their *ugliness* transcends belief --
stranger *strangers* . . . sans some friends. Some must live to
make it known that they are quite sincere, have peaceful, kind
intentions -- and are really not that queer. They mix genetic
*essence* with the people of the Ham. Those folks, today (?) --
anomalous, unexplained . . . a mystery, Sam. The "plates"?
They're still the mystery, their construction isn't plain.
Containing too much cobalt, and by *wattage* marked and stained.
Electrical components would be "scarred" in such a way, and the
plates have *other* properties. They hum when spun they say. In
sum a scary story, or a message from the past, that it's true --
we're not IN Kansas, and the secret's out at last.

Just another cruel enigma, wrapped in years of crass denial? The
plates contest *reality*, so a look is NOT worthwhile? And we
don't look, we ridicule, and mock, or smirk -- or worse, we're
back-step dancing shufflers -- it's no blessing; it's a curse. A
curse of shallow sightlessness, and a waste of useful talent, a
choice for all the worst ideas -- the short view's selfish
challenge. But for them we'd live . . . tall lives in space . .
. in constructs that we made, respecting individuals, and the
TEAMS that they would make! Satisfaction so achievable that it's
in the air you breath, respect that's so forthcoming you can
chew it with your teeth. Freedom that's decided as the common
right of birth, education's focus is "you make your *own*
choice", Burt! You're given information which might change the
way you feel, and you buy in, the choice is YOURS . . . you
strike an honored deal.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Pronounced *drohzz-pa*.

Restore John Ford.

~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 25 December>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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                       Re: Top 10 UFO Stories of 1999

From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 11:46:39 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:25:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Top 10 UFO Stories of 1999


Top 10 UFO Stories of 1999 and Tampa UFO Poll Results

FINAL RESULTS: Jan. 1, 2000

Top 10 UFO News Stories of 1999

Source: http://www.ufoseek.org
Links to all the original news stories at website.

What was the most important UFO News story of 1999?
173 votes total  -  459 hits total

1. The French Report on UFOs and Defense (27)   16%

2. Sept. 7 Tampa Triangle Smoking-Gun Video (23)   13%

3. Mexico UFO Daylight Live TV Photos (21)   12%

4. NASA Loses Contact with Mars Climate Orbiter and Polar Lander
    17)   10%

5. (tie) Clinton's Statement on Groom Lake/Area 51 (12)   7%

5. (tie) SETI Home PC's Search For ET (12)   7%

6. Undeniable Evidence of ET Invasion - CAUS Sues Federal Gov't
   (10)   6%

7. Researchers Suggest Huge Unseen Planet Orbits Edge of Solar
    System (9)   5%

8. (tie) Two Pilots Spot Huge Flying Triangle (8)   5%

8. (tie) Elk Abduction in Washington State (8)   5%

9. (tie) Sept. 1 Northwest Mass Sightings (7)   4%

9. (tie) EgyptAir Flight 990 Crash (7)   4%

10. UK Reveals UFO Cover-Up-by-Legislation (6)   3%

----------------------------------------------------------------

Tampa UFO Video Poll
What do you think the Fox 13 Tampa UFO video revealed?

Final Results:

Total Votes: 545      Total Hits: 1309

Triangular craft (320)  59%
Not sure what it was (133)  24%
Rocket booster (47)   9%
Bolide or meteor (45)   8%
..

Polls by www.pollit.com

----------------------------------------------------------------










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   Jan > Jan 2

                          The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 15:00:30 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:33:54 -0500
Subject: The Photon-Belt Encounter


From: seer7@netusa1.net (Seer)

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~noelh/photonbelt.htm



THE PHOTON-BELT ENCOUNTER
By Noel Huntley, Ph.D.

By means of satellite instrumentation, astronomers in 1961
discovered what appeared to be an unusual nebula. We normally
understand the nebula phenomenon as a vast cloud-like mass of
gas or dust. However, this one appeared to have anomalous
properties and was named the Golden Nebula. The public's
attention was not drawn to this unusual revelation until much
later, presumably when it was realised that this nebula's
location was coincident with the projected orbit of our solar
system. Around the early 1980s a radio announcement in the U.S.
was made (heard by the author) that our solar system was, in
fact, going to collide with an "electromagnetic cloud" in the
not too distant future. However, this incredibly important
statement of astronomical and historical significance was
expressed in the usual casual and indifferent manner as though
of little consequence--just as was, about that time, the
announcement that the FDIC (bank-depositor's insurance) was
penniless! Follow-up data was then suppressed and another
government cover-up was contrived for the typical purpose of
exploiting where possible natural events to camouflage contrived
chaos.

What is this electromagnetic cloud, this golden nebula,
sometimes referred to as the radiant nebula by ETs? Its more
universal designation is "photon belt", consisting of many
bands, and any encounter with this belt is recognised by
extraterrestrials as of great import.

Let us outline the mechanics of this anticipated encounter of
our solar system with the photon belt. The whole universe is
held together by means of vortices within vortices of
centripetal energy--with their associated electromagnetic
fields--like whirlpools on water, within larger whirlpools (this
is the machinery behind Einstein's spacetime topology of general
relativity). These spiralling energies give rise to natural
spacetime orbits: satellites around planets, planets around
stars, solar systems around other more major vortex centers, and
so on. Our planet Earth orbits the Sun once a year but our solar
system as a whole also traverses an orbit in this section of the
galaxy with a period of about 24,000 years. There are many other
solar (star) systems in this cyclic motion (just as there are
numerous planets orbiting the Sun). The Pleiades, about 400
light years from us is part of this system and in fact our solar
system orbits the central sun of the Pleiades, Alcyone; the
photon belt encircles the Pleiades system. In fact it consists
of many photon bands emanating from the centre of the galaxy,
associated with the spiral arms of the galaxy.

Thus our solar system, and therefore planet Earth, takes some
24,000 years to come back to its same point in this particular
orbit. Picture several star systems in a massive orbit, but now
envisage overall a toroid or doughnut-shaped cloud cutting
across these orbiting star systems. This is the photon belt, or
a photon band. This means our solar system goes through the belt
twice each cycle of 24,000 years (that is, every half cycle).
The thickness of the photon cloud is such that it takes about
2000 years for our solar system to pass through, and therefore
about 10,000 years between each encounter with this belt (2 x
10,000 plus 2 x 2000 = 24,000 years).

When will this occur? Scientists around the globe in 1992
predicted that the encounter would occur within months to a
year; with significant disagreements. However, a particular
source of Pleiadian extraterrestrials indicated that it would
not occur until just after 2010 and that it was difficult to
predict since the belt was oscillating randomly. There are in
fact huge discrepancies in channelled material regarding the
date of this revelatory occurrence, ranging from 1987 to
'definitely before the end of this century' to 2003 and finally
about 2011-2012. Other Pleiadians tell us that our solar system
skimmed the belt for a few days in 1987, then over a week in the
following year, and then the Sun went in fully in 1998. However,
the information indicates that Earth does not enter fully until
2012. At the present time we are being informed that the Earth
is in the belt (for the period December, 1998 and June, 1999).

What does the photon belt consist of? What will be its effects
on the life on our planet, positive or negative? Also what is
its purpose, if any? The radio announcement used the term
"electromagnetic" to describe the phenomenon--this is the same
as photon, which is a particle of light or electromagnetic
radiation.

The photon belt is an immense region of space which is radiating
intense electromagnetic radiation throughout the visible
spectrum and beyond, into high-frequency invisible light; even
including some x-ray spectra. Reference has already been made
through the media to huge increases in intensity of "dangerous"
radiation entering through the holes in the ozone layer in
certain regions of our planet. Nevertheless it appears that for
mankind on this planet the photon belt encounter will be
essentially a spiritual experience--but this really depends on
man. If we are sufficiently evolved at the time, great
advancements will occur in our consciousness as we attune to the
high-frequency photon rays. If we are negative, that is, possess
too many lower vibrations, the result of selfish actions, we are
not expected to survive the radiation. In other words, there
will be a natural spiritual selection.

This interaction with the photon belt has been referred to in
channelling as the Christus. Moreover, the event is supposed to
be the true nature of the ascension or rapture, well known in
the prophecies of Christianity.

Other spectacular effects, some of a temporary nature, are
expected as our Sun system moves into the belt. Earth is
circling the Sun, thus it is alternatively ahead of the Sun and
behind in its linear translation towards the belt. Consequently,
either the Sun or our planet may enter first. It is impossible
to predict which, since, as stated, the photon belt is expanding
and contracting randomly. If the Sun reaches the photon cloud
before Earth it has been channelled that darkness will ensue for
about three to five days (obviously this didn't occur if we have
been entering and exiting the belt since 1987). It will be
expected to be pitch dark with probable cancellation of
electrical power sources. However, if Earth goes in first then
the darkness is avoided.

We were told by one source of ETs that as our planet enters the
bands, which will be at a relatively high velocity, we will
experience an immediate electric shock, lasting about one tenth
of a second, but not dangerous. But of greater concern are said
to be the effects of the intense photon activity on the
radiation belt around Earth and the sudden compression of the
atmosphere and expansion, which is expected to be such that the
radiation belt could ignite. If it does, within minutes the sky
will be lit up with intense light, more powerful than from a
welder's torch. If eyes are not protected it will cause
blindness. This intense light is expected to last three days.
Another spectacular feature will be the effect of the intense
photon activity on matter. High excitation of atoms will occur,
causing fluorescence of all objects, and as a result there will
be no normal night time for 2000 years.

In 1992, many people were purchasing dark goggles; what was this
all about? After the original announcement on the radio of the
oncoming electromagnetic cloud collision, further information
was withheld by the government, then disinformation took over.
As mentioned, scientists in different parts of the world were
predicting the moment of full encounter with the belt in around
1992--there were discrepancies but all were within months or
about a year of one another. According to the Phoenix Liberator
(now called 'Contact')--a small but very significant newspaper
protected by the Pleiadian group--the One-World Government
planned to ignite the radiation belt and blame it on the natural
event, the Earth/photon-belt collision. Special weapons were
developed, but all efforts to achieve this heinous act failed.
The purpose? The usual one: to create sufficient havoc,
introduce martial law and establish the New World Order.

Published in the Phoenix Liberator was an article sent in by a
teenager unknown to his parents who worked for the secret
government on these weapons (and who subscribed to the
newspaper). The youngster knew about the photon belt and the
threat of blindness, and his parents made him carry at all times
the protective goggles and keep them by his bedside when asleep.

The photon-belt encounter will play a significant role in the
(biblical) Transformation of man. The term "Christus" apparently
expresses the Second Coming of Christ. (Christ is a state of
being/consciousness--some ETs refer to it as the "Christ
office". Jesus was not Christ but he could attune to this
state.) There will be a rebirthing of planet Earth. We are told
it will divide; each part retaining wholeness though, producing
a 3rd density (frequency density) Earth and a 4th density Earth.
This will not be perceived physically; the planets will be in
different dimensions. One will be in a parallel universe
relative to the other.

(Note that serious books on physics cover parallel-universe
theories--there is nothing particular weird or new about this.
It has been channelled that we sometimes move into
parallel-universe planes and back, which are usually virtually
identical. A further example is that an advanced civilisation
exists in the center of the Earth but this particular
civilisation is in a parallel plane which is reached by entering
"electromagnetic" corridors near the openings at the poles and
certain other regions.)

Possibly the only sad event will be that some families will be
split up by the natural spiritual selection of the photon-belt
encounter. Some individuals will go with the more evolved Earth,
referred to as 4th density, and others with the 3rd density
Earth, which could permanently separate their evolution by
several thousands of years (in rare instances one person taking
the more evolved path may suspend progress to wait for the
other).

Now the photon-belt cycle is synchronised with the end of a
number of greater cycles, for example, 225 million years (the
Reptilian cycle), 26,000 years (precession of the equinoxes),
and 104,000 years (a prominent evolutionary peak of four cycles
of 26,000 years), culminating in a harmonic convergence at about
the time of the encounter, 2012. It is also recognised that this
point in time coincides with the universe reaching its maximum
point of expansion. Synchronisation of such nodes would be
expected to open up the dimensional strata for the influx of new
energy and the subsequent changes.

The photon cloud has a high density of electrons and positrons
(positive, anti-electrons). When an electron and a positron
collide they are annihilated and the mass is converted into
energy radiation--photons. However, the presence of these
positrons have been predicted to interfere with electricity,
which is due to the flow of electrons. It has been indicated
that before this event occurs it would be possible to redesign
the present polarity system, giving a reversal of our polarity
to compensate for this problem (we haven't noticed any effect
yet!). However, the photon energy as a result of the collision
of electrons and positrons will become a major source of free
energy (and at this time the NWO will be unable to suppress its
use). Psychological characteristics of entering the belt are the
effect of uprooting hidden, secret, or withheld material,
bringing it to the surface for transmutation. This means
psychological and physical disease patterns will be forced to
the surface, that is, the conscious mind. This will give
tremendous opportunity to make advancements but also where there
is too much to handle will cause illness, depressions, disease
and death.

According to channelled information, the Galactic Federation
will be aiding our transition during this photon-belt event. It
is stated that they altered (years ago) the basic polarity of
the Sun to allow it to maintain the integrity of the Sun's
planetary system. However, at a later time NASA's space probe
Ulysses detected that the magnetic field of the Sun now no
longer has a north and south pole! The Sun's magnetic field was
found to have changed dramatically into a homogeneous field. No
scientific explanation was given, and of course it has been
withheld from the public. Furthermore, the SOHO satellite more
recently revealed that the Sun responded abnormally to the
impact of cosmic bodies causing an eruption of some 30 to 35
solar flares, which is unprecedented.

The photon-belt encounter is intended to be a positive
experience but only man with sufficient discipline to improve
and elevate his consciousness can ensure that the anticipated
Golden Age will manifest.








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   Jan > Jan 2

                    Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36

From: John Tenney <jelt2000@email.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:42:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:36:11 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36


 >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:25:24 +0000
 >From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >A CENTURY OF UFOs
 >      1953 - Lt. Felix Moncla's F-86 Sabre jet is
 >captured by a UFO over .Lake Superior, hauled
 >aboard by a tractor beam.  Lt. Moncla is still MIA.

Actually, not to be to "nit-picky" but Lt. Moncla's plane was an
F-89C Northrop Scorpion, and lets not forget that also on board
was radar operator Lt. Robert Wilson. Even though I agree with
the significance of this case the information available on
whether or not the plane was "hauled aboard by a tractor beam"
is tiny to say the least. It is much more probable that the F-89
crashed into Lake Superior, alas the evidence for this is almost
as small as the evidence for the UFO scenario, almost.

John E.L. Tenney
http://fly.to/main
Michigan Anomalous Information Network









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   Jan > Jan 2

                   Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:03:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:38:22 -0500
Subject: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


Hi All,

Just going over  a very well known case " 9th November 1979, Bob
Taylor,  the town of Livingston near Edinburgh, Scotland".

Are there any of the original researchers who investigated this
case on this list?

Were there any leanings toward a Military connection?

Roy..







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                       Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 1-1-00

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:24:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 01:46:49 -0500
Subject: Jeff Rense Weekly E-News  1-1-00


----------------------------------------------------------------
                     Jeff Rense Weekly E-News
----------------------------------------------------------------

                         The Week Ahead
                       1-2-00 thru 1-8-00

            Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
                       From sightings.com

                Jeff Rense E-News is distributed
                exclusively by Free Subscription.

                  --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                      * FROM JEFF'S DESK *

Happy New Year...we made it.

We have received a couple emails from semi-thoughtless people who
complain that Y2K was a 'hype' and 'propaganda' and feel they
have been somehow conned into being concerned over a 'non-issue.'
This is about as near-sighted, self-serving, and dunderheaded as
it gets.

Rather than praise the apparently miraculous and heroic work by a
million plus programmers around the world, not to mention the
trillion plus dollars spent, it is a sorry sight to see a few
individuals myopically hurling bricks at those countless IT
professionals, journalists, technicians, consultants, economists,
government and military leaders, and millions of others, who
expressed, and continue to express, serious concern over the
legitimate danger Y2K presents.

If this was a 'joke' or 'propaganda' and just a 'bump in the road'
why did the Premier of Japan, the Government of Italy, and many
other government leaders go into underground bunkers?  Why did
hundreds of thousands of other government and corporate officials
and management people take this threat so seriously that they
spent over a trillion dollars to correct it? Why did the DOD and
the Pentagon and virtually every city, state, county, and federal
governmental agency give this the highest priority possible? Were
they all tricked?  Are they stupid?

Many of those now so quick to criticize and mock conveniently
overlook the long history of Y2K warnings and concern expressed by
many of the world's most powerful governments and individuals as
well, including the likes of Ed Yardeni, the chief economist of
the financial giant Deutschbank. Many of the scoffers, pollyannas,
and armchair gladiators did nothing to prepare for possible
trouble themselves and now, lustily, gloat in justifying their do-
nothing laziness by claiming Y2K is/was a non-event.

What about the false prophets, alarmist doomsday-loving wackos who
have been predicting the end of the world at the hands of ruthless
space aliens, deadly plant pathogens, pole shifts, asteroid
impacts, earthquakes, and a dozen other clichd scenarios?
Shouldn't they be first in line for criticism?  How about a call
to accountability for them? At least we KNOW Y2K was/is a real
threat.

The Y2K computer problem was/is an enormous event, which has
apparently, at least initially, been handled by human ingenuity,
dedication, and sweat.  Let's spend a little time praising the
heroic efforts of professional IT, systems programmers, and those
who sought to inform the general public rather than howling at
them.  These people performed a great human service by forcing
attention, and then action, to address and then, hopefully resolve
the dilemma.

There is a difference between tabloid-brained merchants of doom
and professional computer, informtation, industry, and government
experts who labored for years to raise consciousness levels to
appropriate intensity so that the problem would get the funding
and the attention required to tackle it.

So, let's do a little thinking about the big picture before
demanding that heads rolls at high noon.  Certainly, there are
hucksters ready to cash in on anything negative. But with Y2K, our
own government, and governments around the world, knew/know the
potential for not taking Y2K seriously was nothing less than
potentially catastrophic.

The bottom line:  EVERYONE benefits from Y2K.  The numbers of
systems that have been upgraded and streamlined are countless;
the consciousness of SOME people about needing to become more
self- reliant has been elevated to all-time highs; our
government has demonstrated it has the intelligence to deal with
a crisis environment, and above all, hundreds of millions of
people were taken to a higher level of awareness of how thin the
line of comfort we are attached to is.

Furthermore, the world-threatening issues of nuclear weapons
safety and nuclear power plant security have never received more
news coverage.  The unprecedented military cooperation between
Russia and the US is, hopefully, a harbinger of better
communications in the future.  This note from Reuters uses the
word 'elated'...the significance of that should not be
overlooked...

    PETERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Colo. (Reuters) - U.S. and Russian
    military experts who worked around the clock to prevent any
    Y2K computer bugs from triggering a nuclear nightmare were
    elated on Saturday that there had been no disasters.

And then there is the following statement from Deputy Secretary
of State John Hamre:

    "Did we overreact? Absolutely not. The Department of Defense
    is the bedrock of American national security, and America's
    defense is the bedrock of stability around the world," Hamre
    said. "This was an investment we had to make and it was a
    good investment. I don't know if we've seen all of the
    problems we're going to face yet, and many of them will come
    up in the next few days."

US Y2K czar John Koskinen talked about the enormous gains Y2K
has given the world:

    "Individual organizations of virtually all sizes for the
    first time now have an inventory of what the information
    technology is they're using," he said.  "And large companies
    in the United States and large government agencies have never
    had that kind of an inventory," primarily because of the
    rapid growth rate of computer dependence.

Koskinen and countless others are more than aware of perhaps the
most important area of Y2K benefit:  national and world
security.  The incredible efforts of government and military to
deal with Y2K has yielded unprecedented cooperation and
understanding between government, military, and private
industry, which together operate over 90% of the world's
critical infrastructure.

    "We have begun to look at the question of how can we build on
    this, sort of, unprecedented amount of cooperation and work
    together," Koskinen said.

    "We have private sector associations and industries
    headquartered right now in federal agencies, working together
    hand-in-glove, exchanging information, making sure that if
    there any issues, we all deal with them immediately," he
    added.

U.S. businesses have also gained because, in preparing for Y2K,
they have consolidated information systems and begun "to think
much more systematically about their future (technology)
spending," said Harris Miller, president of the Information
Technology Association of America.

Let's see how good the Y2K fixes prove to be over the coming
days and weeks. Self-indulgently rushing to judgment and
spouting "I told you so" is not the most productive path to
take.  Instead, let's breathe a little easier and take pride in
what appears to be one of the developed world's finest
achievements...a truly inspiring note of cooperation and
resource upon which to begin the next thousand years.

  -Jeff
_____

Hydra-headed missiles...

   And to all a glorious new century
   The New Millennium
   The sparrows and robins are flitting around
   the  garden and bathing in the stone pond
   There is a slight breeze and the sky
   is a patchwork of cirrus clouds and blueness
   These are the events in the non-human world.
   In our world of calendars and clocks
   we celebrate a turning more of our subjective
   sense of time than of any  objective celestial measure.
   Yet we make our best of the century lists
   honoring the heroes, acts and works
   we both admire and despise.
   As the roses are thrown and the champagne poured,
   we stand between a sense of exhaustion
   from a century of war and brutishness
   and a hopefulness and dread for the future.
   While we turn away from the past
   one third of  the world's nations
   are involved in armed conflicts
   and the H-bombs are still loaded
   on the hydra-headed missiles
   and the world destroying submarines.
   We project our ideals into the future
   where our  intellect and our love must
   unite to overcome the scarcity, greed
   and anger that has dominated our history.
   Armed only with the silicon chip
   a super battery to replace fossil fuels
   a great love of our planetary unity
   and a new selflessness we will samba
   into this century of 10 billion humans
   eager to  overcome the dance of death
   that inhabits our nightmare prophecies.
   We shall see that promised land
   where poverty is overcome,
   intolerance is a distant memory
   and war a forgotten travesty.
   So as I turn to the future
   I celebrate the life force
   its origins, its variety and its destiny
   and I look to love, yes I continue
   to look to love, to bring us together
   to finally evolve our full humanity.

Allen Cohen - December 31, 1999

                   --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

    "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it
    is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the
    music which he hears, however measured or far away."

                               -Henry David Thoreau, Walden

                   --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                        * A VITAL CHANGE *

We posed the questions:  What do you intend to do differently
this year?  What has changed for you? How has your view of life
altered? What do you intend to do to 'change the world' or even
just your own space which alters the world?

Your answers?

    A wake up call indeed!  Until this Y2K situation came to
    light, I was blissfully ignorant of the complete dependence I
    have on the "Grid".  In the coming years, provided we don't
    suffer cataclysmic changes, I will do everything in my power
    to regain some independence.

    I will learn to grow a garden, I will invest in solar power.
    My dream has changed now from having a nice home in the city
    to having acreage with access to a clean source of water.  I
    want to teach myself and my son how to recognize plants and
    animals, to be aware of the world around us, and to
    appreciate and respect nature, while we still have it.

                                    Renee Montgomery

-------

    In the year 2000, and the years beyond, I will continue to do
    what I have always done:  enlighten people to the fact that
    there are many, many "doomsday" prophecies floating around
    every year, and there have been for millennia, and I guess
    always will be.  "Y2K" is just the first one to gain a
    measure of credibility by being given so much coverage in the
    "legitimate" press.  What most people don't know is that
    there are prophecies every year detailing horrific events and
    changes that will occur....these prophecies are not vague,
    but specific as to time, date, place of occurrence, etc.  And
    of course, the hallmark of these prophecies is that they
    never occur!  Sadly, instead of these false prophets
    followers learning a lesson and waking up to reality, many
    either continue to follow them or seek another one equally as
    phony.  What is in our nature that makes us crave deception?
    An overblown need for melodramatic entertainment, perhaps?  I
    don't know, but when Y2K has come and gone without the world
    coming to an end, as I predicted over a year ago that it
    would not, I pray a few people will wake up.

                              Happy New Year!
                              Rev. John Russell, C.T.M., Ct.Psy.
--------------

    Perhaps then I will remember to pray each day even as the
    apostle did--"Even so Lord, Come quickly."
                                  Mary Louise Hooker
--------------

    This past year has been a real "wake-up call" for us,
    beginning last New Year's Day (1999).  We lost our
    electricity, due to an ice storm.  We'd planned to use that
    weekend to do some "y2k practicing" anyway, but let me tell
    you--- choosing to turn the heat and electricity off at the
    box is different from not having that choice.   Whether or
    not this "y2k thing" will be a showdown or a no-show, we have
    learned and are still learning to become more self reliant,
    less of a throw-away mentality, depending less on the "grid"
    and Corporate America, and finding within ourselves the
    "true-grit" integrity, resilience, compassion, and sense of
    community that was prominent in the hearty souls who were the
    backbone of this country a few generations ago.

    Collectively, we have lost those qualities; It may very well
    take a "y2k wake-up call" to regenerate these qualities to
    rebuild our society on a firm foundation of faith, hope and
    charity.

    I am not Martha Stewart.  Therefore, I cannot change the whole
    World (she would find a way, I'm sure).....but I can attempt to
    change my personal corner of the world by being an example of
    what I want to see around me, in my city.  That's how change
    begins : individually, one by one, each committing to being
    "the first one" to start the ball of change rolling.  That is
    what my small part will constitute.  Trying to be the example
    of what I want our city to become.

                                     Deborah McCabe
------------

    I'm 66 and maybe people of my generation were taught to be a
    little more responsible for their actions and well being.  I
    am prepared in most every way possible for problems in the
    coming year and I pray to God that I have just been overly
    cautious. God gave us all a brain to use! Some will use this
    problem to sharpen up their abilities and some will do
    nothing and expect the Government or someone else to take
    care of their short comings.  This maybe a lesson in survival
    of the fittist!

                                     Happy Holidays.  John L G nra8

------------------

    This year I believe will be one of drastic changes..... What I
    will do differently is by God's grace, keep my cool, spend a
    lot less time at the computer, try to remember where I put all
    those items necessary for emergency living.

    What I intend to do to 'change the world' is simply, the
    Hardest thing I can think of.......completely submit to the
    Supreme Remodeler of the Universe....who merely wants me to
    place myself on the drawing table daily to that * I * will be
    changed.......
                                     Mimi MacDonald
                                     Victor, Montana
--------------

    I see the coming year as a wake-up call for all of us who
    Depend Too much on technology, to the detriment of human
    integrity and ingenuity. We have forgotten over the years the
    true meaning of freedom.......... freedom of spirit, freedom
    of thought, freedom to be true to ourselves as well as to the
    next generation. We live in a morally filthy society, where
    the line between right and wrong has been totally removed.

    My only grandchild, Angel, will be one year old on Jan. 2,
    2000, and I can only pray we can promise her a better future
    than the past we have left for her. May God watch over her,
    and may the world be a kinder place because of her. This
    would be my wish for her and all of the children of the
    world.

                                      Sincerely,
                                      E. Hames
----------------

Feeling jubilant today, I'm looking forward to new chances to
help reshape this world gone wrong.  Just look at the simple
purity of the numbers of this year: 00� a void waiting to be
filled, a new beginning, a new chance. Each change for the
better, however small, continues the reshaping of our world.

But we must DO.  We can no longer afford the luxury of simply
observing.  "There is so little time and so much to do."

Do.  Feel.  Love.  Be.  But above all, do.
                                           - Jocelyn

                    --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

    The Universal Oneness (Beyond our Galaxy II) by David Lewis
                           For more info:
      mailto:jocelyn@dewittic.net?Subject=Universal_Oneness

                    --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                          * TOP STORIES *

             Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
                      http://www.sightings.com

   * Y2K - US Warns 'Far Too Early To Declare Victory'
   * UFOs And The New Century - A Great Awakening
   * US Military's Right To Arrest American Civilians
   * Chemtrails Continue To Sicken Many - International Uproar
       Brewing
   * GOES Satellite Captures Perfect Contrail (?) Grid In Clouds
   * 100's White (UN?) Trucks/SUVs Seen Stored In Kansas City
       Amusement Park
   * Lloyd Pye On The 'Starchild' Skull DNA Results And Hominoid
   * Gordon Michael Scallion's Predictions Since 1994 Listed...
   * What's Ahead For The Net In 2000?
   * The St. Petersburg Times: Russia 'Lying Like Mad' Say
       Soldiers' Mothers
   * Billy Meier's Son, Methusalem, Speaks Out For The First Time
   * Why The Golan Squeeze?
   * The Sherman Skolnick DataPage
   * Oklahoma's Amazing UFO Sightings
   * 747 Explodes Over England On 12-22-99 - Cover-Up By Media?
   * Study Finds HIV Infection Attacks Women Differently Than Men
   * Strange 15 Foot Bronze 'Phoenix' Rises Out Of Prince Of Wales'
     Estate
   * Going My Way? - The Bus Ride To Hell
   * 'Unprecedented' Hurricane Rages Across Europe - Nearly 60 Dead
   * The Pine Bush, NY Phenomenon Is Alive & Well
   * TIME Names Einstein 'Person of the Century'
   * Einstein - Charlatan, Flim-Flam Man Or Man Of The Century?

      Read the entire text of these stories and more at
                     http://www.sightings.com

                   --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

              Culpeper's Complete Herbal, Circa 1653
                         The old knowledge
           mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net?Subject=Culpeper

                   --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                     * THIS WEEK'S GUESTS *
                          1-1 Thru 1-7

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due to late
breaking stories, etc)

SUN 1-2
    Pending

MON 1-3
    Antonio Mendez: My Secret Life In The CIA

TUE 1-4
    Pending

WED 1-5
    Michael Lindemann:  World UFO Review And Report

THU 1-6
    MUFON Report
    Tom Sheets - State Director, Georgia
    Dan Wright - MUFON Chief Investigator
    Dr. Bob Wood - MUFON Director Of Research

Fri 1-7
    Bernard Thouanal - Publisher Sensational French UFO Report

Live Real Audio Broadcasts & Archives: http://www.sightings.com

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      Need money? France, Germany, Australia, New Zealand,
      various US Territories, UK, Canada, and US - get paid
      to surf. It's free to sign and significant income is
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                          Re: The Immediate Future

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:15:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 02:54:55 -0500
Subject: Re: The Immediate Future

Subject: UFO UpDate: The Immediate Future

Hello, and Happy Totally Uneventful (except for a rather nasty
Hangover) New Year.


 >...and a Happy New Year to you all...

 >The words of my buddy Michael sum it all up...

 >ebk

 >-----

 >Well what a ripoff. I've waited patiently
 >more than 47 years for this and... nothing's
 >different. No flying cars, no atomic barbecues...
 >Oops, hold up a minute. We suddenly appear to
 >be surrounded by killer robots. Okay, much better.
 >AAAHHRRRRGGGGG!


You Know folks, I knew Molt Taylor the guy who actually (this
guy was up there with Douglas, Northrop, or Lear a real genius -
unappreciated) invented the Aerocar; a car with detachable wings
and reasonable highway performance. Molt thought that with
little effort that the sky would be much better to fill with
flying cars rather than tear up good earth for freeway - he did
have something there, he even thought that you could deal with
the noise problem with all those little Areocars whizzing about.
(Personally I think that we have to conquer Gravity, ala; 'The
Jetsons') But, he was still a man for prolifc thoughts and
concepts.

Oh, what happened to the Aerocar(s)? Well, the FAA couldn't
recognize them as Aircraft and the DOT couldn't recognize them
as Autos so he couldn't maket them ;"Sorry Mr. Taylor (Faceless
Beaurau- crat speaking.) but your product has to be either/or
not both. Have a nice day!....Sound familiar.

Any way, off subject, but again, Happy New Year, (at least I
don't have to worry about the Semi-Load of freeze dried food
that this guy I know bought)

---- GT McCoy


P.S. My only regret is that I'm not submitting this from a
server on the Moon or Mars..








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                Re: "A century of UFOs" UFO Roundup 31/12/99

From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 18:41:11 PST
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 04:11:13 -0500
Subject: Re: "A century of UFOs" UFO Roundup 31/12/99


Joseph Trainor lists in his latest roundup what he describes as
"significant" sightings for each year.

I saw that a number of Australian reports are mentioned. Some
comments are appropriate to correct some errors and problems
with their presence. I'll leave others to address other country
cases if they are so inclined. My purpose here is to ensure that
readers have accurate information as the Roundup newsletter is
circulated widely. As its a new century lets hope all
researchers focus on accurate reporting and help clarify any
errors or inaccuracies that might circulate.

1900 Hanging Rock! Lets keep this affair where it belongs - an
enduring and haunting piece of fiction. Unless there's
information I don't know about, this story never happened. It is
fiction - exquisite fiction penned by Joan Lindsay in her
wonderful book "Picnic at Hanging Rock" (1967) and made into a
great film directed by Peter Weir. Hanging Rock exists - I've
camped there, but the tale is a literary creation.

1918 - a luminous cruciform UFO over Lismore. Thats a new one on
me, unless it relates to the following. By cruciform I take it
to mean cross shaped. That set me thinking. The only cross
shaped mystery I recollect Lismore being associated with was of
a glowing "cross" that titillated locals mainly during 1978. Is
the 1918 a typo for 1978, and there never was a cross shaped
"UFO", just a glowing cross, that was never unidentified and
never flew. The cross belong to the grave of one William
Steenson who died in 1907. I don't recollect tales of it glowing
between 1907 and 1978. In 1978 the affair was the centre of a
short lived media circus. If there is a more substantial source
to a real UFO event in 1918 I'd love to hear it.

1930 Mandurah humanoid - shot to death by a terrified farmer
after asking for water! Some story - I have a vague recollection
of something about this tale but if someone knows anything
further let me know. However there was an "ET" story in Mandurah
during 1930. It differs from the account given in the Roundup.
See my "Early Australian Historical Encounters" at
http://www.project1947.com/bcausenc.htm for a detailed account.

1931 Chichester did not "chase" the "UFO". He was thinking about
it until it disappeared on him. Again see my report mentioned
above for the full quoted account.

1933 Nambour small disk - the boy did not grab or touch the
disk. See again my historical encounters report.

1978 Frederick Valentich. His middle initial was P for Paul not
M. And he was heading for King Island not Hobart. His radio call
was not "frantic" but he was starting to show some signs of
apparent alarm as the conversation with Steve Robey, Moorabin
ground control progressed.

1979 the New Zealand videoing occurred on December 31st, 1978
not 1979, and the locality is called Kaikoura not Keikoura. The
early 1979 filming that some refer to was spurious ground based
filming of misinterpreted astronomical objects.

1988 The Knowles family experience referred to occurred in
Western Australia.

I hope these clarifications help for those seeking accuracy on
UFO accounts.

Best wishes for the new century from Australia - the land of Oz.

Bill Chalker,
author of "The Oz Files - the Australian UFO Story"







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                   Roswell To Aliens - New Years Eve 1999

From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@get2net.dk>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 07:13:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 04:23:13 -0500
Subject: Roswell To Aliens - New Years Eve 1999

Source: Seattle Post-Intelligencer

http://www.seattlep-i.com/national/spil01.shtml

Stig

***

Earth to aliens: It's a new millennium, so give us a call

Saturday, January 1, 2000

By JIM MOORE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

ROSWELL, N.M. -- All cut from the same kooky cutter, the people
arrived as UFO believers, gathering last night at the site of an
old missile launcher to watch the world's brightest laser show.

At midnight, beams of light danced against the starlit sky,
stretching as high as 60,000 feet.

It was more than a spectacle. This is where a spaceship was said
to have crashed in 1947, leading to a supposed governmental
cover-up in what became known as "The Roswell Incident."

In an attempt to re-establish contact with the aliens, one of
the lasers carried more than 10,000 electronic greetings into
outer space. The objective: to see if E.T. or anyone else was
home.

By press time, the aliens had yet to click reply on their
laptops. If they do, they will be embraced here.

A drive around town reveals an "Aliens Welcome" sign at Arby's,
a restaurant called "Outer Limits," a party at the Best Western
featuring a baby alien in a glassed-in cocoon, and a UFO museum.

"People ask me if I've seen any aliens," said Gary Thomas, owner
of Badger Construction. "I say: 'Yeah, I like 'em. They taste
just like chicken.'"

Most of the earthlings' messages were warm and fuzzy, talking
about hope and love and peace.

Others were more amusing.

"Hey Aliens! Git your hands off our wimmen," wrote Todd,
spelling-challenged in cyberspace.

"Yo homies," wrote another. "Whussup?"

"Please bring chips and dip with you. I've got cookies in the
oven for you when you arrive. Say hi to Chewbacca for me. Love
you bunches," from Ted.

"Hi out there! I don't have a great life and I need a weird fun
friend," wrote a lonely soul.

Others wanted a spaceship delivered, preferably with the owner's
manual included. Some wanted to be beamed up, tired of life on
this planet. One man is sick of dating human beings.

"Send me some alien babes," he said.

The two men behind last night's extravaganza were Charlie
Waters, chief executive officer of the Roswell Chamber of
Commerce, and Frank Costantini, co-owner of starlite.com and
lord of the lasers.

"We're promoting Roswell and the biggest mystery of the
millennium," said Watters, who would otherwise be selling a
charming farming community.

Costantini produced the show, which had a Seattle connection
with music from Jimi Hendrix, more specifically from a cut
called "And The Gods Made Life."

"It's so appropriate," Costantini said. "Amazing stuff, so
spacy."

Picture taking a left turn off of Highway 26 anywhere between
Royal City and Othello and you'll get an idea of what last
night's site looked like.

The difference is that in Eastern Washington you will never see
a 25-foot inflatable alien waving with his (hers? its?)
three-fingered yellow hand to passers-by.

Like everything else, the alien was sponsored, wearing a sign
from Roswell Toyota.

By 11 o'clock last night, the curious assembled at the corner of
dysfunction junction and lunatic fringe, 20 miles west of town.
Reporters were here from Time and Newsweek magazines and Fox
News.

The lasers radiated from a 180-foot cavern where a missile was
once poised for destruction overseas.

Theoretically, the light will travel endlessly, relaying
messages to other life forms in the universe.

"We're capturing a piece of immortality," Costantini said.

"If they have the equipment to receive that, they will know the
signals are intelligent. We're hoping to find out."

**

Send comments to newmedia@seattle-pi.com
� 1999 Seattle Post-Intelligencer.
All rights reserved.











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                               Open For Offers

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:49:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:15:09 -0500
Subject: Open For Offers


Hi Errol, All

I have in my possession some old copies of 'UFO Encounters'. I
have the pair that make up 'UFO Encounters' and 'UFO Mysteries'
and another 'UFO Encounters' which has the Washington encounter,
and the Lubbock lights stories. I think they are the original
1968 copies but I don't know how to date them.

These are comic book like formats which tell a basic story of
about sixty sightings in each issue.

I am putting these up for offer to all interested parties.
Please contact me direct.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                      Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9

From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:52:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:26:41 -0500
Subject: Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9


Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9


CONTENTS

1. Operation BlunderPope.

2. Further Thoughts on RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge.

3. Cash-Landrum 'Special-Ops' Unit Identified?


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


1. Operation BlunderPope.

In the last issue of 'Nick Pope's Weird World', our man at the
Ministry reported:

"There have been several recent Internet posts about my work at
the Ministry of Defence, and regrettably, some of what has been
claimed is inaccurate. It all started when James Easton wrote
to the MOD asking for some details about their policy and views
on UFOs, and enquiring about my official research and
investigation".

It's inauspicious when this is inaccurate to begin with.

Gaynor South, current incumbent at the Ministry of Defence's
'UFO desk', had previously been helpful during my research into
the infamous December 1980, 'Rendlesham Forest UFO landing'
story.

Investigations into that case proved to be worthwhile and most
significantly I unearthed previously unpublished, original
witness testimonies. As now known, these contained fundamental,
documented proof that Orfordness lighthouse was at least partly
responsible for the 'UFO' terror. This was something known to
all participants and which they neglected to mention when later
recounting 'UFO' tales for the media.

Copies of my research papers [some yet unpublished, but soon to
be] were forwarded for the Ministry's information and Gaynor
expressed their appreciation for such unprecedented feedback.

I recently wrote to Gaynor:

I should be grateful if the Ministry would please answer the
following questions:

1. During Mr Pope's tenure at the 'UFO desk', what was his
exact job title?

2. What were his main duties?

3. Approximately how much of that time was spent on 'UFO
related' investigations?

4. Has the job title, its main duties and the allocation of
time to 'UFO' matters changed since Pope's day?

5. Have the Ministry of Defence ever, as Pope alleges,
investigated to any significant extent a single case where a
'crop circle', 'alien abduction', or 'animal mutilation
('cattle mutilation') has been reported and if so, what was the
outcome? [End]


Contrary to Pope's statement, there were no queries concerning
the MoD's policy or views on 'UFOs' (which are well testified).

Persisting with falsehoods, Pope writes:

"From what I understand, Easton has only quoted selectively
from the MOD's reply, and this has resulted in a misleading
picture being given".

Other than myself, no-one outside the Ministry had seen their
reply and we can only speculate how Pope can 'understand' there
was important material omitted. As we shall see, the misleading
picture, intentionally or otherwise, comes from Nick himself.

Nothing was 'selectively quoted', the Ministry's reply to those
questions being quoted in its entirety and a copy of the
information I published, entitled, 'Nick Pope - The Ministry of
Defence Respond' can be see at:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/oct/m03-010.shtml


Pope continues:

"I thought I'd set the record straight, and to do so, we need
to look at the statements in the MOD letter:

'The Ministry of Defence has not investigated a case of alien
abduction, crop circle formations or animal mutilation'.

I described my work with abductees in chapter 8 of The
Uninvited, while my work on crop circles and animal mutilations
was set out in chapters 5 and 6 of Open Skies, Closed Minds.
Both books were cleared by the MOD".

Faced with the direct question, where is Pope's confirmation
that this 'work' was on behalf of the MoD?

It simply isn't there and, Pope provides an 'indirect'
response, which insinuates this work was 'officially approved'.

I wonder if Pope has forgotten that he did in fact go to great
lengths in 'The Uninvited' to make it clear that his
involvement with the stories of 'abductees' had no connection
whatsoever with official duties. He explained how this was,
"not in my remit" and later again notes it, "was not in my job
description".

In plain English, which Pope is normally adept at, it had
nothing to do with the MoD.

Maybe that's why they 'cleared' his book.


Pope surmises:

"I can't respond to every Internet post that makes misleading
statements about my official research and investigations, but
in this instance a genuine MOD letter was being selectively
quoted from and misinterpreted".

Disappointing that Pope has leapt from a baseless 'from what I
understand' to promoting that bogus allegation as fact.

What does he believe, if at all, was conceivably 'selectively
excluded' from the Ministry's reply?

Something like, 'To be truthful, Mr Pope has singularly exposed
that we do fear 'crop circles' and 'alien abductions' to be an
alarming threat to the defence of the realm... no, honestly...
you wouldn't believe how seriously we take this'.

Fortunately, it's easily proven that there was nothing of
importance omitted from the Ministry's letter, which was
actually quite brief, and a copy can be seen on my web site at:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/voyager/mod.jpg


With my permission, Pope is duly invited to ask the MoD for a
copy. He can then be in no doubt that the Ministry merely
substantiate what Pope was perhaps compelled to clarify in his
book, that his eclectic beliefs were borne of personal interest
and unrelated to anything, outside of 'UFO' reports, the MoD
ever investigated.

Why he chooses to portray a different picture in more recent
times, particularly as it isn't too difficult to see the true
facts, is presumably a case of 'enthusiastic marketing'.


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


2. Further Thoughts on RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge.

A forthcoming publication, which I hope to provide more news
about shortly, will feature the RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge case
and will include previously unpublished documents from the
original witnesses statements taken in early January, 1981.

Details of the contents have previously been made known and
further information can be found on my web site at:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/voyager/enigma.htm

However, there may be one or two 'surprises' still to be
unveiled.


It's taken considerable time and reflection to make sense of
the overall evidence contained in these critical, earliest
testimonies. Setting out the sequence of events in their
chronological order, this is a fresh look at what those
accounts reveal.

At approximately 0300 on the morning of 26th December, 1980,
two members of the 81st Security Police Squadron (SPS), Airman
First Class John Burroughs and Staff Sergeant Bud Steffans,
were on duty at RAF Woodbridge's east gate.

They noticed unfamiliar lights in the forest, directly east of
the long and straight east gate road.

Burroughs describes seeing a red light above a blue light, both
of which were "flashing on and off".

They decided to investigate and travelled to the end of east
gate road, where it joined the 'main' road through Rendlesham
Forest. Turning right, they proceeded for some 20 yards to a
'logging track' on their left hand side.

This provided a direct view due east and Burroughs states they
could still see the red and blue lights, plus, now a white
light "shining onto the trees".

This is where Orfordness lighthouse could first begin to
complicate matters. The were now looking along a road which
faced due east, where the lighthouse was situated on the coast.

The red and blue lights couldn't conceivably have been related
to the lighthouse. The white light may have been.

The guards made a report over the radio and headed back towards
east gate. Whether the gate was left unguarded during all of
this time, I'm not sure!

Burroughs then notes that as they travelled back, "the white
light started coming down the road that led into the forest".
He adds that when they reached east gate, "the white light was
almost at the edge of the road", whilst the red and blue lights
"were still out in the woods".

A "security unit", consisting of Staff Sergeant Jim Penniston
and Airman Edward Cabansag, also from the 81st SPS, duly
arrived at east gate.

With permission to continue investigations, Steffans remained
at the gate whilst the others returned to the forest track in a
truck. Burroughs believes that at this time "the lights were
moving back and they appeared to stop in amongst a bunch of
trees". Given that he was travelling and as this was a dense
forest, that may have been an illusion and unfortunately he
doesn't say which lights are being referred to.

When the terrain became too difficult, they continued on foot
and "crossed a small open field that led into the trees where
the lights were coming from".

Apparently the woods "lit up" at one point and "there were
strange noises", with "farm animals making a lot of noise" and
"a lot of movement in the woods".

The forest had an abundance of wildlife, including deer and due
to the participants close proximity to a farm, none of this is
really 'odd', except for the woods suddenly being 'lit up'.

At this point, there remained only some lights whose source was
unidentified, however, the men were sufficiently 'spooked' to
'hit the dirt'.


Burroughs believed the lights then "started moving back towards
the open field". It's difficult to equate this if they were
already "crossing the small open field that led into the trees
where the lights were coming from".

Anyhow, the patrol "got up to a fence that separated the trees
from the open field and you could see the lights down by a
farmers house".

Here we have a definite 'fix' on the lights, apparently close
to a farmer's house.

All three "started heading towards the red and blue lights and
they just disappeared".

And that was it.

Either they lost their bearings in a search for the lights, or
the lights were 'turned off', or its source departed, seemingly
with the lights turned off.

No actual object was ever sighted, at least according to
Burroughs and he maintained this in later years; "I never saw
anything metallic or anything hard".

However, the adventure was far from over as Burroughs explains:

"Once we reached the farmer's house we could see a beacon going
around so we went towards it. We followed it for about 2 miles
before we could see it was coming from a lighthouse".

According to Burroughs, the only other notable incident was:

"We had just crossed a creek and were told to come back when we
saw a blue light to our left in the trees. It was only there
for a min and it just streaked away. After that, we didn't see
anything so we returned to the truck".


Cabansag reaffirms, "We left our weapons with SSgt Steffans who
remained at the gate. Thus the three of us went out to
investigate.

We stopped the Security Police vehicle about 100 meters from
the gate. Due to the terrain we had to go on by foot. We kept
in constant contact with CSC [Central Security Control]. While
we walked, each one of us could see the lights. Blue, red,
white and yellow".

This 'yellow' light isn't mentioned by Burroughs and it does
seem to be explained, Cabansag confirming, "The beacon light
turned out to be the yellow light".

One down, three to go.

"We could see them periodically, but not in a specific
pattern", says Cabansag.

His only remark of anything 'alarming' is:

"As we approached, the lights would seem to be at the edge of
the forest. We were about 100 meters from the edge of the
forest when I saw a quick movement, it looked visible for a
moment. It looked like it spun left about a quarter of a turn,
then it was gone. I advised SSgt Penniston and A1C Burroughs.
We advised CSC and proceeded in extreme caution".


A new element, also not mentioned by Burroughs is that, "When
we got about 50-75 meters, MSgt Chandler/Flight Chief was on
the scene. CSC was not reading our transmissions very well, so
we used MSgt Chandler as a go-between. He remained back at our
vehicle".

Cabansag's account now differs significantly; "As we entered
the forest, the blue and red lights were not visible anymore.
Only the beacon light was still blinking. We figured the lights
were coming from past the forest, since nothing was visible as
we passed through the woody forest. We could see a glowing near
the beacon light, but as we got closer we found it to be a
lit-up farmhouse".

So, the red and blue lights weren't visible at all whilst they
ventured through the forest, according to Cabansag.

He does concur with details of the abortive lighthouse chase,
explaining, "After we had passed through the forest, we thought
it had to be an aircraft accident. So did CSC as well. But we
ran and walked a good 2 miles past our vehicle, until we got to
a vantage point where we could determine that what we were
chasing was only a beacon light off in the distance. Our route
through the forest and field was a direct one, straight towards
the light".

Cabansag also corroborates Burroughs' later sighing:

"We informed CSC that the light beacon was further than we
thought, so CSC terminated our investigation. A1C Burroughs and
I took a road, while SSgt Penniston walked straight back from
where he came. A1C Burroughs saw the light again, this time it
was coming from the left of us, as we were walking back to our
patrol vehicle.

We got in contact with SSgt Penniston and we took a walk
through where we saw he lights. Nothing. Finally, we made it
back to our vehicle, after making contact with the PC's and
informing them of what we saw. After that we met MSgt Chandler
and we went into service again after termination of the
sighting".


Does Penniston's testimony help understand the anomalies?

He states:

"Upon arriving at east gate directly to the east about 1.5
miles in a large wooded area. A large yellow glowing light was
emitting above the trees (refer diagram). In the center of the
lighted area directly in the center ground level, there was a
red light blinking on and off 5 to 10 second intervals. And a
blue light that was for the most part steady".

If the yellow light above the trees was from the lighthouse,
which would appear to make sense in relation to Cabansag's
explanation, we might dismiss that as solved.

Yet, there could have been more than one source of a yellow
light. What if Penniston's observation related to light from
the 'glowing' farmhouse. It's in the correct location and it
was otherwise 'pitch black' in that thick forest at 0300 on a
December morning.

Or, maybe there was something else in that vicinity.

It's crucial to realise this all occurred off base in what was
effectively the total darkness of surrounding countryside,
largely consisting of tall, forest trees.


The red light and blue light are the features which remain
consistent in all three accounts and they are the ones which we
could hopefully find an explanation for.

All evidence supports they definitely can't relate to the
lighthouse.

Penniston continues, "After receiving permission from CSC, we
proceeded off base past east gate, down an old logging road.
Left vehicle proceeded on foot. Burroughs and I were
approximately 15- 20 meters apart and proceeding on a true east
direction from the logging road. The area in front of us was
lighting up a 30 meter area. When we got within a 50 meter
distance. The object was producing red and blue light. The blue
light was steady and projecting under the object. It was
lighting up the area directly under extending a meter or two
out".

Penniston therefore attributes these lights to a definite
object, with the blue light projecting underneath it and
lighting the surrounding ground area for some two meters.

Accompanying Penniston's early January 1981 statement to Lt.
Col. Halt was a sketch of said 'object'. I have a copy of this
drawing, which has never been published. It will be, shortly.

He concludes, "This is the closest point that I was near the
object at any point. We then proceeded after it. It moved in a
zig-zagging manner back through the woods then lost sight of
it. On the way back we encountered a blue streaking light to
left lasting only a few seconds. After a 45 min walk arrived at
our vehicle".

The 'zig-zag motion' may be an arbitrary interpretation and a
major discrepancy is that Penniston doesn't corroborate the
lights were seen near the farmer's house.

Then again, he misses out entirely that two-mile pursuit of the
lighthouse beacon.


All of the above testimonies come from the original witness
statements. It's a pity these weren't taken until a full week
after the events.

 From the drawing which accompanies Burroughs' testimony, he
shows not an object, but lights and in summary describes them
as:

[top light] red and orange - this would move back and forth, up
and down - when it was sitting in one place, beam would be red
and orange

- a white light would come out below the beam in the trees -
blue lights would come out of the beam and the white light
below - blue lights would blink on and off.

Compared with Penniston's claim that, 'the object was producing
red and blue light. The blue light was steady and projecting
under the object. It was lighting up the area directly under
extending a meter or two out", there are now identifiable clues
that these must have been the same lights both witnessed

However, were the blue lights steady or blinking?

In either event, we can surely say they observed 'something'
which had a red light on top, with a blue light beneath and the
blue light illuminated the surrounding ground area with a blue,
white or blueish-white light.


Everything seems to have been centred on the location of nearby
Capel Green/Green farm.

It was due east of east gate road, just beyond the forest trees
where the lights were first noticed.

It an almost straight line due east, there was east gate road -
then part of the forest - then that open field - then the farm.
In the distance, was Orfordness lighthouse.

On my web site, there's a detailed Ordnance Survey map
illustrating this - see:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/voyager/map3.jpg


What if the source of our mysterious lights came from the farm
itself and was a slow moving vehicle?

In the black of that forest, its lights could have been
noticeable from east gate and if so, would likely have appeared
to be in the forest, when in fact they were just beyond.

As the patrol ventured towards the open field and farm, where
the lights seemed to be, a brightly-lit, moving vehicle could
explain the source's illusive nature.

The fact the lights were eventually believed to be near this
farmhouse and not in the forest, would be consistent. No
vehicle could easily, if feasibly, move through those dense,
forest trees anyway.


Around a month ago, I witnessed something which was strikingly
similar. It was at night and I noticed a number of lights which
seemed to be moving through a small wood about half a mile
distant. Intermittently, the trees were lit by a beam of white
light.

Although I presumed this must be a vehicle, it was difficult to
understand why there were so many lights, some appearing to be
higher than others.

As I knew the landscape well, I had also surmised that the
lights must be from a farmer's field, used for cattle, beyond
the trees. If I hadn't known this, it would have been
significantly more puzzling, as I recognised would surely be
the case for anyone unfamiliar with the area.

I stopped to investigate. Fortunately, the lights were
approaching and I didn't have to venture into the dark woods!

In time, it became clear that this was indeed a vehicle moving
through the large field, however, it was still unusual and
looked to be surprisingly large as it had five lights on the
front alone.

This was also an illusion.

It turned out to be nothing more than a tractor with a JCB
'digger' type of front scoop, being used to carry bails of hay
for the cattle. The tractor had two lower front lights, two at
the height of the cabin and also a rotating 'warning light' on
top. There were also two lights on the back, all of which in
the darkness could only be perceived as a collection of moving
lights, with occasionally a white beam 'lighting up' some of
the surrounding area. I didn't detect any noise until the
vehicle was quite close.


Could the Capel Green farm owners possibly have been feeding
their cattle, with a tractor which had a red warning light and
a blue light? In the pitch darkness, a rotating red top-light
would probably have produced a red 'beam'.

It's something which could possibly still be clarified and I'll
certainly look into this further.

Interestingly, Penniston's original depiction of the 'object',
which he confirmed never have been closer than 50 meters to,
shows a box-shaped object, more like a tractor with raised
cabin than a triangle-shaped 'craft'.

Anyway, it's a recap of the story, set in a chronological
context and the subsequent investigation of a 'UFO' report, on
the night/early morning of the 27th/28th December, 1980 by Lt.
Col. Halt and his assembled 'team' can be considered in that
context.


As we know, a mainstay of Halt's tape recorded investigation is
when one of the team notices a tiny, distant, flashing light.
Halt perceives this to be 'red' in colour, however, on tape one
of his accomplices is heard to say, "There, It's yellow", or
"Sir! It's yellow", Halt then conceding "I saw a yellow tinge
in it too".

This does sound like the lighthouse beacon and Halt was near
the very spot where Burroughs, Cabansag and Penniston first saw
the same 'unidentified light'.

We must keep in mind that at this time, Halt hadn't seen the
original witness statements and didn't realise the lighthouse
beacon had so deceived them.

Halt's recorded affirmation that the small light [Halt more
recently explaining it was only 2 or 3 feet in diameter] "looks
like an eye winking at you" and "when you put the Starscope on
it, it sorta has a hollow center, a dark center, it's like a
pupil of an eye looking at you, winking. And it flashes so
bright to the Starscope that it almost burns your eye", is all
constant with an observation of the beacon.

Perhaps definitively, the evidence for same is the observation,
"We're at the far side of the second farmer's field and made
sighting again about 110 degrees. This looks like it's clear
off to the coast".

Remember, this was merely the sighting of a diminutive,
unidentifiable flashing light, in the close compass direction
of Orfordness lighthouse and "clear off to the coast".

Obvious clues should never be missed.


Whatever additional 'phenomena' was perceived by Halt and his
team has to be set in this expanded context. They were looking
for a 'UFO', thought they had found one and everything else was
'thinking UFO'.

That acknowledged, some questions remain and I highlighted a
number of new ones in the detailed testimony of Sergeant Randy
Smith, published in April, 1999 - see:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/voyager/newslet4.htm


I'm pleased to announce that several personnel who served on
base at the time have recently been located and their
recollections will hopefully provide further insight.


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


3. Cash-Landrum 'Special-Ops' Unit Identified?

It's important to also bear in mind the background which the
RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge case was set against.

This was in the midst of the Iran hostage crisis.

The twin-base complex was a US facility on British soil and any
special operations taking place, especially relating to the
situation in Iran, may only have been known about at the
highest level.


I believe a military 'special ops' training exercise was at
least in part responsible for another classic UFO encounter, a
drama which was soon to unfold on the other side of the
Atlantic.

During the evening of 29th December, 1980, Betty Cash, Vickie
Landrum and Colby Landrum were travelling along Highway FM1485
in eastern Texas. It was a quiet road in a sparsely populated
area.

They noticed a bright light above the trees and as it descended
towards them, it hovered at tree-top level.

Diamond-shaped and much larger than their car, the object
intermittently expelled a 'cone of fire', apparently downwards.
This caused it to rise slightly, similar to a hot-air balloon
using a burner to keep aloft.

The object also reportedly glowed brightly and something
emitted an occasional beeping noise.

With the object now above the road, the witnesses got out of
their car, reportedly experiencing an intense heat and light
from the object.

Suddenly, a large number of helicopters appeared overhead,
seemingly arriving from all directions. The unidentified object
was then lost from sight behind some trees and the helicopters
left.

Driving further on, the object and helicopters were again seen
in close proximity. The witnesses counted 23 helicopters and
these were identified as mainly CH-47 Chinooks, plus faster
single- rotor helicopters, similar to a Bell-Huey.

The witnesses apparently all suffered from illness afterwards,
with Betty Cash, who was closest to the object, being the most
poorly. It's generally assumed this was directly related to the
incident.


Despite extensive enquiries, no trace of the helicopters'
origins was ever found, with Houston Airport unable to assist
and military bases in Texas and Louisiana denying any possible
involvement.

It remained a mystery.

One statement came from the US Army's Fort Hood press officer,
Major Tony Geishauser, who confirmed no aircraft from that base
were in the Houston area at the time. He commented, "I don't
know any other place around here that would have that number of
helicopters. I don't know what it could be... unless there's a
super secret thing going on and I wouldn't necessarily know
about it".

It's a point which I can maybe help substantiate in this case.
Although there could now be a rational explanation for the
brightly glowing, diamond-shaped object, that's still the
subject of investigation and is left aside for now.

However, of arguably more importance, I can identify the
special operations unit who would appear to be most likely
responsible for the helicopters witnessed.

It seems this was probably 'Task Force 158', a forerunner to
the legendary Night Stalkers.

This is the genesis as told by the Night Stalkers themselves:

"After the failure of Operation RICE BOWL, the attempted U.S.
hostage rescue in Iran in April 1980, the United States Army
began testing and evaluation to develop special operations
aviation capabilities. Volunteers were selected from the 101st
Aviation Group's C/158 and D/158 (UH-60), A/159th (CH-47), and
B/229th (OH-6) to form and develop tactics, techniques and
procedures for aviation in special operations mission profiles.

The 101st Airborne Division (AASLT) provided the UH-60s and CH-
47s while the National Guard initially provided the OH-6s. The
101st was selected because it had recently fielded the UH-60
Black Hawk helicopter, which was already proven to be extremely
reliable and safe while conducting demanding mission.
Additionally, the 101st possessed a large number of CH-47
medium lift helicopters that could complement the smaller Black
Hawks and agile OH-6.

Beginning in June 1980, intensive training was conducted
focusing on long range, low level, flying at night with
primitive full- faced AN/PVS-5 night vision goggles. As
proficiency increased, mission profiles became more demanding
and complex - challenging the Task Force to develop additional
capabilities of blacked-out and close formation flight. The
testing and evaluation resulted in the development of the light
helicopter company, the extended range and lift UH-60, and the
extended range FARP capable CH-47".


Although I have other reasons to be reasonably confident that
Task Force 158 were involved, this relates to someone else's
research which hasn't yet been published. I'm sure the
additional evidence will become known in due course.

At the moment, it's not proven.

Bringing the Night Stalkers story up to date:

"Upon resolution of the hostage crisis early 1981, the Army
recognized that it took a great deal of time, training, and
resources to develop the unique capabilities to accomplish
special operations mission and there may not be sufficient time
to prepare and respond to future crisis. The decision was made
to form a standing Army Special Operations Aviation Task Force
known as Task Force 160 consisting of volunteers from Task
Force 158. The 160th quickly established a reputation in the
Special Operations community as a unit that could deliver:
always at the right place at the right time with the right
assets. On 1 April 1982, Task Force 160 was designated as the
160th Aviation Battalion. However, the 160th continued to be
referred to as Task Force 160 until the present".


Maybe this also sets the RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge case in its
true perspective. Any comparative 'special ops' could also
explain the reported 'unusual' activity around the same time
there, with a number of unfamiliar personnel being seen and a
high level of communications traffic.

As I wrote in 'Resolving Rendlesham', published in August 1998:

"On a recent visit to the picturesque town of Woodbridge, near
the now defunct complex at RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge, I
was able to survey the area of the bases and forest, resolving
some queries I had about the locale.

[...]

The 'UFO landing' story was fondly remembered and resulted in
an interesting tale.

A local taxi driver told of how he often had to drive through
Rendlesham forest at night and on a couple of occasions had
seen 'strange flashing red lights' which seemed to come from
within the forest, or just above the trees.

The sightings were a mystery, until one night he was finally
able to identify the source of similar lights. There were, he
said, from a 'Jolly Green Giant'.

The 67th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery squadron (ARRS) were
stationed at RAF Woodbridge and used HH-53 'Super Jolly Green
Giant' helicopters. Could it be verified that they did practice
low-level, night-time manoeuvres in the forest?

Having been able to locate a number of personnel who served at
the bases during December 1980, I asked if this was a
possibility and Dale Wagner, SMSgt. 67th Aerospace Rescue and
Recovery squadron (ARRS), Ret., came up with the goods,
confirming:

"I was at Woodbridge with the 67 ARRS from 1977 to 1981.

The 67 ARRS flew HH-53 helicopters not HH-3s and they did do
training manoeuvres in Rendlesham during day and night. They
actually practised hovering in clearings in the forest".

"I remember kidding after the rumour of the sightings that our
helicopters were at it again".

"They used the night penetrations to practice with night vision
goggles. The choppers also had landing lights that they would
use if they were not using night vision equipment".

Another former serviceman recently told me of the night-time
helicopter manoeuvres by Britain's elite Special Air Service
(SAS) and recalled one particular incident:

"They did not make a lot of sound, but they came in fast. When
they departed, they turned their lights back on and went off in
separate directions. We did exercises with the SAS all the
time".

He summarised, "RAF Bentwaters was a very hot area for many
types of military training actions". [End]


Some facts, some conjecture and above all, hopefully something
of value in this brief reassessment of two cases which remain,
so far as we know, unrelated.

When a 'UFO' case meets the world of 'special ops' and 'black
projects', I'm reminded that someone once wisely pointed out to
me, "the more you know, the more you realise you don't know".


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


James Easton,
Editor.

E-mail: voyager@ukonline.co.uk
Voyager On-line: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/voyager/

(c) James Easton
December 1999









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 2

               Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up?

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:21:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:31:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up?


 >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:05:51 -0600
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Subject: Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:11:41 -0400
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Roswell 'UFO Crash' Nuke Accident Cover-Up?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><giant snip>

 >>Anderson's story checks out except for the phone bill.....

 >>Stan Friedman


 >Really? What about the suspect diary he provided? Doesn't ring
 >any alarm bells? And isn't it true that you sent Anderson a
 >packet of your own Roswell writings before conducting a series
 >of in-depth personal interviews with him? In hindsight, was that
 >a prudent thing to do -- for an investigator or a journalist?


I was the one who had the ink on the diary dated by gas
chromatography ($2000 of Bob Bigelow's money). The ink was dated
to before Anderson claimed to have received the diary. If it had
been later, I would have dropped the whole business. It started
in my gray basket.

I sent him background information about me as a nuclear
physicist and the response to my lectures so that he would know
I was not a reporter for a tabloid or a writer of fiction. I
said nothing about, for example, red haired officer and black
seargeant. Doesn't pay to believe rumors, Dennis.


 >As for the presence of a windmill, pardon me if I'm not
 >impressed. I don't think anyone has ever argued that Anderson
 >wasn't familiar with the local lay of the land. But the presence
 >of a windmill where Anderson remembered it hardly substantiates
 >the claim of a crashed saucer (with bodies) nearby.

It would seem to establish his familiarity with a very remote
area and well off the "main" road. Catron County has the lowest
population density of any NM County.

I gather that you are favorably impressed by the other comments
I made??

 >Merry Y2K to all!

 >Dennis Stacy

I definitely agree with you on this item.

Stan Friedman








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   Jan > Jan 2

                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #332

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 08:59:29 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 09:08:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #332


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 10:00:02 -0600
 >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
 >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #332
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Apology to MW #332 (For January 1, 2000)

<snip>

 >You're given information which might change the
 >way you feel, and you buy in, the choice is YOURS . . . you
 >strike an honored deal.

<snip>

Buy in.  It de rigour....

Good job Lemme... reminds me of Dylan's "Idiot Wind."

"You're an eeeee-id-iot babe, and it's a wonder that you still
know how to breath..."

We are like his idiot wind and it's a wonder that _we_ still
know how to breath.  We've forgotten or ignored everything else
important, except what fits our present pair a dimes.

Trying to get Jeff to do a Lehmberg Show... he said something
about when hell freezes over [Just Kidding!].

Jim Mortellaro







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   Jan > Jan 2

                         An End is a Beginning.....

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:48:42 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:58:02 -0500
Subject: An End is a Beginning.....


Happy period of 100 years ... especially of the Christian era or
of the preceding period of human history


Y2K was not a non event. It was a beginning; even if only as an
intellectual exercise.

The end of the twentieth century was not an end, as all endings
are a beginning.  May our beginning be the genesis of
apperception by mankind that we are at the end time of our
planet.  Even if the comet does strike us, or the killer
asteroid from hell arrives, or the tenth planet passes us too
close for safety - perhaps the explosion in the center of our
galaxy will remove all life from this world.  There are many
ways in which the "end" may become reality, but even these are a
beginning.

The overwhelming likelihood is that we will destroy ourselves
even without these terrible events.

Destruction.

Destruction by hatred, selfishness, greed and the belief that we
are invincible.  We are not invincible, we are nothing more than
a delicately constructed life form, becomming more and more
dependent on those things we've created which even as I write,
are destroying us by degree.  Strange isn't it, that we create
"good" things which destroy us.  We even to gainsay what we know
to be truth.  We are a strange people, indeed.

There is hope however.  The hope is in our new beginning.

And so to you and yours, from docca Morty and his long suffering
wifey, the beautiful Rosemarie, we wish you the blessings of
love, health and hapiness


When I woke up this morning, the first thing I said was, "I made
it through another night without a visit from those who would
take from me, everything they can steal."  That was a really
wonderful present from on high and perhaps, represents a new
beginning for me in that part of my life which has been fraught
with terror for 56 years.


Jim & Rosemarie Mortellaro








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   Jan > Jan 2

                    Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:26:47 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:07:52 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'


To the List

Something new just happened again in the French media, The
influential French daily newspaper "Liberation" published a four
pages report on ufos, in its issue dated 25 and 26 december
1999. Its main features are :

A general survey of the ufo question, mildly favourable, even
open to the question of Roswell and subsequent secrecy (title:
"Tous fous d'ufos", meaning "All Crazy About UFOs") ;

An article presenting favourably the Cometa report, citing as
well the Sturrock Report, and the action of Laurance
Rockefeller. On the contratry, sociologist Pierre Lagrange is
quoted as being on the wrong track, with reference to his
article of July 21, 1999, which was violently opposed to the
Cometa report, and published in the same newspaper! (title "En
attendant ET", meaning 'Waiting for ET')

A one page interview with Robert Bigelow, quite favorable again.
(title 'The Space Cow-Bow').

Is this the beginning of a new approach in the French media,
which had been utterly skeptical in recent years, especially
since the disaster of the 'Alien Autopsy? That's what we will
see, during the coming months.

Gildas Bourdais







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   Jan > Jan 2

                                  Re: Corso

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:26:46 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:13:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Corso


 >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 08:54:15 -0400
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Corso
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 18:22:23 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Corso
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 19:20:23 -0400
 >>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Corso
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 02:21:35 -0500 (EST)
 >>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>>>Subject: Re: Corso
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>>>Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:31:51 -0400
 >>>>>Fwd Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 16:46:19 -0500


 >>That's a very good question, but I suggest this possible
 >>answer to it:
 >>General Trudeau was not in the know of the main operations
 >>of study of the Roswell debris.
 >>He just had inherited a little amount of material which had been
 >>alloted to the Army at the very beginning, all the rest being
 >>kept by the highly secret group, etc: you know that!
 >>Trudeau would have just decided to try to use it independantly.
 >>Does that sound completely crazy?

 >I can't say "completely crazy". But I can wonder at the lack of
 >urgency for trying to back engineer or understand or disseminate
 >such important examples of advanced technology. A two man group
 >hardly seems appropriate.

 >Corso was not an engineer or a scientist. I worked on army
 >sponsored classified nuclear programs at Aerojet General
 >Nucleonics in the early 1960s and at General Motors 1963-1966.

 >Lots of people and money.

 >Filing cabinet makes it sound as though he might have been given
 >access to reports from the professionals who had been working on
 >the wreckage elsewhere and did have the background for it.

 >Stan Friedman

Yes, he says so in his book : he saw a report of alien autopsy!
Another big lie??

I would like to sum up a few points about the 'Corso problem':

Is his story absurd? No, however improbable it looks, it is not
completely impossible. At least the main lines.

Could have Lt Col Corso thoroughly invented his story? I don't
believe that.Sorry, Mr Rimmer, your reply to my other post is
just caricatural. What I said is that he did not behave like a
jerk or a mentally deranged person. Of course, there are mad
people who may look "normal" at first look (I read that, in his
old age, Dr Mengele gave candies to children anf they liked
him). But there is also his military record, his family
background, etc. Anyway, we all have memory gaps, and will have
more in old age. Obviously, he had a tendency to embellish his
role. Many people do.

Yes, there are big mistakes in his book. But we know that many
of them come from Birnes, who admitted it himself.

Was he hungry for money, to the point of writing, or
co-authoring a very inflated book? The many mistakes, and his
association with Birnes would tend to suggest that. But it seems
that he was not a very good negociator, if it is true that he
did not get much money from his book. If I am right, he even
asked for financial help shortly before his death of his trial.
Could anyone confirm that?

On the other hand, Birnes seems to be a very sharp partner. I
happen to have seen a draft agreement sent by his company (UFO
Publishing Inc.) to French authors for translation of their
book. I know a bit about publishing contracts, and that one was
very full of traps. If Corso signed a contract like that one, no
wonder he did not get much money at all.

Gildas Bourdais









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 3

                    Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:53:17 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:01:24 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'


 >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:26:47 EST
 >Subject: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >To: updates@globalserve.net

 >To the List

 >Something new just happened again in the French media, The
 >influential French daily newspaper "Liberation" published a four
 >pages report on ufos, in its issue dated 25 and 26 december
 >1999. Its main features are :

 >A general survey of the ufo question, mildly favourable, even
 >open to the question of Roswell and subsequent secrecy (title:
 >"Tous fous d'ufos", meaning "All Crazy About UFOs") ;

 >An article presenting favourably the Cometa report, citing as
 >well the Sturrock Report, and the action of Laurance
 >Rockefeller. On the contratry, sociologist Pierre Lagrange is
 >quoted as being on the wrong track, with reference to his
 >article of July 21, 1999, which was violently opposed to the
 >Cometa report, and published in the same newspaper! (title "En
 >attendant ET", meaning 'Waiting for ET')

 >A one page interview with Robert Bigelow, quite favorable again.
 >(title 'The Space Cow-Bow').

 >Is this the beginning of a new approach in the French media,
 >which had been utterly skeptical in recent years, especially
 >since the disaster of the 'Alien Autopsy? That's what we will
 >see, during the coming months.


Hi Gildas

Any chance of translating the articles and posting it here, or
emailing it to me please?

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 3

                 Issue 104 pt 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ukufonw@FREENETNAME.CO.UK>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:27:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:03:05 -0500
Subject: Issue 104 pt 1 - United Kingdom UFO Network

           ______ _______ ______
   ------ /  /  //  ____//     /---------------------------------------
    U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  /                      31st December 1999
        /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K     Part 1 of 3 Issue 104
   --- (_____//__/    (_____/------------------------------------------



   The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
   subscribers in 58 countries. This e-zine is published in 3 parts. If
   you are missing a part or parts e-mail us with the subject 'MISSING
   PARTS' and we will mail you the whole e-zine.


   e-mail us: ufo@ukufonw.co.uk
   fax us: (44) 0870 0883592
   web site: www.ukufonw.co.uk


   In this issue:


   Editorial
   ---------


   Back issues of uk.ufo.nw and other e-zines.


   United Kingdom News
   -------------------


   [UK 1] Near collision cith UFO baffles aviation expert.
   [UK 2] Somerset sighting by Police Officer and wife.
   [UK 3] How on earth do you lure little green tourists?
   [UK 4] UFO in Glasgow airspace


   World News
   ----------


   [W 1] X-Files version of history is backed by CIA report.
   [W 2] Lawyer to sue for release of 'real X-Files'.
   [W 3] When aliens come abducting, ask for a warm probe.
   [W 4] Take a Virtual Tour of the Pentagon
   [W 5] Moon Mystery
   [W 6] Furry puppet turns up in ET search
   [W 7] Multinational spy system ...
   [W 8] Apollo Astronaut Was Murdered, Son Charges
   [W 9] uk.ufo.nw takes a look at SETI@home web information
   [W 10] New Mexico UFO Sighting Caught On Video


   Letters
   -------


   Lights over Dorset???
   Jerry Hartsell's book


   Serialisation
   -------------


   Part three of three...


   Foo Fighters, Fireballs and "Project Saucer."
   Copyright: Jim Morris. 1996/97/98


   Jim Morris <dx394@clara.net


   And finally!
   ------------


   Statement. Connecting to the IRC. How to subscribe.



   ----------===============******************===============----------



   Editorial
   =========


   Everyone here at United Kingdom UFO Network hope you all had a great
   Christmas and wish you all a very safe, happy and prosperous New
   Year.


   ---


   We would like to thank John Hayes for archiving all back issue of the
   uk.ufo.nw e-zine. You will also find archives there for:


   UK.UFO.NW / UFO Roundup / Filer's Files / AUFORN Australian UFO
   Reports and Experiences


   John says that he is constantly on the look out for details / updates
   for UFO Organizations, Magazines, Conferences etc on a worldwide
   basis.


   ufoinfo@ukgateway.net


   UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com



   United Kingdom News
   ===================


   [UK 1]******


   Source: BBC News
   Publish Date: Wednesday 15th September 1999
   From: doug@greenmen.demon.co.uk


   Near Collision With UFO Baffles Aviation Expert


   A UFO that narrowly avoided colliding with a passenger jet
   flying from London's Heathrow Airport has baffled aviation
   experts.


   The metallic grey-coloured object was spotted by the pilots
   of an Oslo-bound McDonnell Douglas MD81 plane on 12 June
   1998, and passed just 20-50 metres from them.


   The captain said the object was the size of a small aircraft,
   while the co-pilot described it as a "bright light, very
   close".


   Reporting to an air traffic controller, the captain said "a
   flare or something passed 20 feet from our aircraft", but
   nothing had been recorded on the radar screen.


   Radar blank


   The pilot later filed a near-miss report, known as an
   airprox, in which he said the object looked similar to a
   fighter.


   But a report by the Civil Aviation Authority found no
   explanation for the incident, which has also confounded local
   military experts and local police.


   "Air traffic controllers were certain that even a very small
   aircraft would have been detected, particularly on Heathrow
   radar," said the report.


   Although the evidence of the unnamed airline's crew is
   considered to be reliable, the report notes that they only
   caught a brief glimpse of the object.


   Fewer near-misses


   The incident was included in a Civil Aviation Authority
   report, which found that dangerous aircraft near-misses fell
   to an all-time low last year.


   It is the first report to include airprox incidents filed by
   both pilots and air traffic controllers.


   The number of near-misses involving public transport flights
   per 100,000 flying hours in 1998 was 1.20, compared with 2.37
   in 1997 and 2.87 in 1996.


   Three-quarters of those misses were judged as having no
   actual risk of collision.


   "The figures speak for themselves and show that more flying
   does not automatically mean more risk as a consequence," said
   Gordon McRobbie, director of the UK Airprox Board.


   Chance miss


   But he warned against complacency. "This report is aimed
   squarely at all pilots and air traffic controllers and I
   would encourage them to read about the incidents.


   One of the most serious incidents listed involved two
   passenger jets, which avoided collision only by chance after
   a mistake by an overworked air traffic controller.


   The incident happened near London's Stansted Airport on 14
   August 1998, and involved a Stansted-to-Cork Ryanair Boeing
   737 and a Dublin-to-Stansted Aer Lingus BAe 146.


   Even when a collision alert flashed up, the controller was
   unsure what was happening and gave no instructions to the
   planes to take avoiding action.


   ---=== a further newspaper report on this ===---


   Source: Daily Express newspaper
   Publish Date: 16th September 1999
   From: johnniem@dial.pipex.com


   A UFO came within 50 metres of a passenger plane flying from
   Heathrow, according to two pilots.  The mystery object did not show
   up on radar and has baffled investigators, a near-miss report
   revealed yesterday.  It passed within 50 metres of an Oslo-bound
   McDonnell Douglas MD81 in June last year. The captain reported it as
   being the size of a small aircraft, while the co-pilot described it
   as a "bright light, very close."


   The UK Airprox Board's report said:  "Air traffic controllers were
   certain that even a very small aircraft would have been detected."


   [UK 2]******


   Source: Name and address suppied.


   Dear sir/madam


   My wife and I witnessed a sighting of a bright light, much larger
   than a star and moving at a very high speed from about 120 degrees
   from north to about 85 degrees from north. We were looking in an
   easterly direction from our home in Weston Zoyland, Somerset at about
   0500 hours on Friday 10th September 1999.


   This object suddenly became stationary for about 15 minutes during
   which time I viewed it through my telescope. It appeared to have a
   spherical underside but the top was not spherical. One side had a
   faint red glow. After this period of time it moved in a direct line
   away from us at great speed and eventually disappeared.


   It has taken great courage to write this to you as neither of us have
   ever seen anything like this before and as a Police officer I am
   quite sceptical about these things.


   uk.ufo.nw says: Further enquiries are being made regarding this
   sighting. However if any reader has further information please mail
   us.


   [UK 3]******


   Source: BBC Online
   Publish Date: Monday 15th November 1999


   How on earth do you lure little green tourists?


   Expecting visitors? Better do some dusting, comb your hair, mow the
   launchpad. A former mining town in the north-east of England is
   taking the brave step of pitching for visitors from Mars.


   Bedlington in Northumberland, whose residents some people class as
   Geordies, is branching out to advertise itself to the red planet
   thanks to Nasa.


   Traders - including mechanics Tyred and Exhausted, burger shop Best
   Byte and funeral directors AJ Gascoigne & Son - are expected to get
   together to offer the aliens special deals.


   The town's chamber of trade organised the move by replying to a Nasa
   advert for material to be included on the Mars 2001 Lander
   expedition.



   Chairman Malcolm Robinson said: "We'll offer any alien visitors a
   range of discounts, with pensioner rates for haircuts, and discounts
   on food and clothing.


   "They won't get a warmer welcome anywhere in England."


   But he added: "God knows if they'll understand our accents."


   Local trader Margaret Millen was in little doubt that, if the message
   is picked up on Mars, Bedlington would get a good reaction.


   "It's a lovely little town, very friendly. It's really a country
   town, even though it's only 12 miles from Newcastle and fairly close
   to the industry," she said.


   One notable chapter from the town's history was the production of
   iron rails by Michael Longridge. A friend of George Stevenson, the
   rails were used for the world's first passenger railway.


   Although the town is treating the Nasa venture light-heartedly, it is
   not a publicity shy place.


   The chamber of trade's website directs potential customers to local
   businesses, and makes the most of a worldwide - particularly US -
   interest in Bedlington Terriers.


   The site's webmaster writes: "Bedlington.co.uk was rather trying to
   minimise this, but there is simply no getting away from the fact that
   Bedlington is famous for its 'World Class' breed of dogs. If you
   search the Internet it is almost as if that is all it's famous for.
   Not so!"


   The news of the Nasa CD comes 25 years after the first deliberate
   radio message sent from Earth to the stars. In 1974, a three-minute
   message about the human race was sent from the Arecibo radio
   telescope in Puerto Rico.


   Although the message has been travelling for a quarter of a century,
   it's still only one-thousandth of its way to its target stars, 147
   trillion miles away.


   In 1973, Nasa sent a plaque on its Pioneer 10 craft with simple
   greetings from humans, showing male and female form, and where earth
   is in relation to the Sun.


   It is still waiting for an answer.


   ukufonw says: The BBC then asks it's readers to fill an online form
   in asking the question..


   How would you lure Martian tourists to your home town?


   [UK 4]******


   From: Paul Jones - UK.UFO.NW investigator
   Source: scanner newsgroup
   Date: 23rd December 1999


   uk.ufo.nw are making further enquiries with John and it's British
   Airways contacts.


   UFO in Glasgow airspace


   On Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:15:14 -0000, in alt.radio.scanner.uk "John
   Johnstone" <rangers@ibrox9.freeserve.co.uk wrote:


   I was listening to the tower at Glasgow airport the other day and the
   BA [British Airways] pilot came across the speaker and said that
   there was something 12 miles above him and it wasn't showing on his
   radar! In reply the tower guy said it was actually six miles above
   and that he could see it although he said that when trying to contact
   him the signal was broken and advised him to land as it was following
   him. 118.800 is the frequency. This is not a joke or Hoax.



   World News
   ==========


   [W 1]******


   Source: Daily Telegraph
   Publish Date: Tuesday 17th August 1999


   X-Files version of history is backed by CIA report


   By Michael Smith


   THE CIA has released a secret history of its investigations into UFO
   sightings, revealing that there was more truth in the popular
   television series The X-Files than is often believed.


   The highly critical report describes often bitter debates between
   real-life X-Files investigators who believed that "the truth is out
   there" and their sceptical bosses. It records tales of bumbling
   undercover agents whose activities fuelled a widespread belief that
   the government was covering up what the agency described as
   "extra-terrestrial visitations by intelligent beings".


   The problem was eventually passed to the agency's physics and
   electronics division where in true X-Files style just one analyst
   investigated UFO phenomena. But the Fifties equivalent of Fox Mulder
   was constantly undermined by his boss, described by the CIA history
   as "a non-believer in UFOs", who tried but failed to declare the
   project "inactive".


   While the CIA investigations eventually concluded that all the
   sightings could be explained, the report concludes that "misguided"
   attempts to keep them secret led to widespread belief of a government
   cover-up.


   The report, written by Gerald K Haines, the official CIA historian,
   was commissioned by the then CIA director James Woolsey in 1993 in
   the wake of renewed claims of a CIA-led cover-up. It calls for the
   first time on documents that the agency hid from UFO enthusiasts who
   obtained thousands of more mundane files under the Freedom of
   Information Act. The report, completed in 1997, has been released at
   the request of the British academic journal Intelligence and National
   Security and is published in its summer issue this month.


   US intelligence began investigating UFO sightings in 1947 when a
   pilot claimed to have seen nine discs travelling at more than 1,000
   mph in Washington state. The claim was backed up by additional
   sightings including reports from military and civilian pilots and air
   traffic controllers.


   The first investigation, Operation Saucer, was carried out by US air
   intelligence which initially feared that the objects might be Soviet
   bombers. But some officers became convinced that UFOs existed and in
   a top-secret report concluded many of the sightings were
   "interplanetary". Air force chiefs had the report rewritten to
   conclude that "although visits from outer space are deemed possible,
   they are believed to be very unlikely".


   The CIA initially dismissed the investigations as "midsummer
   madness". But an agency committee decided they could be used by
   Moscow either to create mass hysteria or to overload the air warning
   system, making it unable to distinguish between UFOs and Soviet
   bombers.


   In 1955, claims by two elderly sisters to have had contact with UFOs
   attracted widespread publicity. A CIA agent describing himself as an
   air force officer spoke to them and reported that he appeared to have
   stumbled upon a scene from Arsenic and Old Lace. Analysis of a "code"
   which the women believed aliens were using to make contact with them
   while they listened to their favourite radio programme was morse code
   from a US radio station.


   But when UFO enthusiasts heard of the "air force" officer's visit
   they became immediately suspicious that he was a member of the CIA
   trying to cover up the affair. One enthusiast pursued the CIA
   conspiracy theory and was visited by another CIA officer, who claimed
   to be in the air force and even wore an air force uniform. The ruse
   failed, making the conspiracy theorists even more suspicious.


   The refusal to release 57 documents on the investigation in the
   Seventies, to    protect sources, also fuelled the cover-up theory,
   Haines concluded.


   [W 2]******


   Source: Daily Telegraph
   Publish Date: Sunday 22nd August 1999


   Lawyer to sue for release of 'real X-Files'


   By James Langton


   THE truth is out there, and Peter Gersten believes that he knows
   where to find it. As director of the Citizens Against UFO Secrecy he
   will launch a lawsuit this week against the United States government,
   claiming that its refusal to hand over secret documents on the
   existence of flying saucers is a violation of his constitutional
   rights.


   While the authorities, including the Department of Defence and the
   CIA, continue to insist that they are not concealing details about
   alien incursions, their denials are undermined by growing evidence of
   real-life X-Files.


   The British academic journal Intelligence and National Security last
   week published an official CIA report that documented attempts by the
   agency to uncover the truth behind UFO sightings over half a century.




   It revealed that the CIA operated its own team of UFO investigators
   and that, like the television series The X-Files in which secret
   agents probe extra-terrestrial activity, the agency was plagued by
   sometimes bitter divisions between sceptics and those who believed in
   flying saucers.


   Mr Gersten and his organisation hope that their latest lawsuit will
   force the authorities to reveal what they know about a large number
   of well-documented sightings of large triangular craft seen over
   Arizona and New Mexico in recent years.


   The objects, some many times larger than a jumbo jet, have been
   observed by tens of thousands of people. One was filmed over Phoenix
   two years ago but later interpreted by the air force as a series of
   flares dropped in a training mission - an explanation few accepted.



   "People have a right to the truth," says Mr Gersten, a lawyer from
   Scottsdale, Arizona, who believes that extra-terrestrials are trying
   to contact us through crop circles. "I believe that the authorities
   have evidence and that I can prove it in a court of law."


   While such extreme opinions are only shared by a tiny minority, most
   Americans believe that their government knows more than it will say.
   Opinion polls show that more than half now believe in UFOs. And after
   years of denial, almost all branches of the American military now
   admit that they carried out their own secret investigations into
   flying saucers, particularly in the 1950s when UFO fever peaked.


   The CIA report, by its official historian Gerald Haynes, says that
   the agency eventually concluded that most reports could be explained
   and that there were no little green men. While some CIA agents
   believed that there was evidence of genuine UFO activity, the
   official version attributes at least half the sightings to secret US
   Air Force reconnaissance aircraft such as the U2 and Blackbird.


   Dr Bruce Maccabee, one of America's leading UFO experts who regularly
   met CIA agents from 1979, believes that the "real X-Files" are in the
   vaults of the air force and FBI. The air force also maintained
   Project Blue Book in which it documented nearly 13,000 sightings
   between 1951 to 1969, all but 700 of which it was able to explain as
   conventional aircraft or natural phenomenon.


   The air force has also attempted - with very limited success - to end
   speculation that it recovered the remains of a spacecraft which
   crashed near Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947 and several alien bodies.
   It has released previously classified files which claim that the
   "saucer" was actually a weather balloon used to monitor nuclear tests
   and that the "aliens" were crash test dummies for parachute
   prototypes. Among UFO diehards, however, such  "explanations" are
   seen only as evidence of a further cover-up.


   [W 3]******


   Source: The Toronto Star
   Publish Date: 24th August 1999


   When aliens come abducting, ask for warm probe


   IF YOU GET abducted by space aliens, you're going to get probed. You
   might as well face it. That's why they abduct you. Not that you can
   do anything about getting abducted. If they want to abduct you,
   they'll abduct you, right?


   Right?


   At a cocktail party not long ago, a very nice cocktail party - nobody
   in the room had ever watched Jerry Springer, nobody snuck up behind
   you and made farting noises in their armpits - in an apartment at a
   very classy Bloor St. W. address, I met a psychiatrist who, when I
   asked what his specialty was, said most of his practice was people
   who believe they've been abducted by space aliens.


   I made sympathetic noises. Tsk, tsk. It must be difficult getting
   them to realize they are delusional.


   ``No,'' he said. The difficulty was getting them to understand that
   nobody was going to believe they had been abducted, and they were
   going to have a hard time, either forced to keep it to themselves, or
   enduring the reaction - that they were goofballs. Nobody was going to
   believe them, that is, but him.


   I was so astonished that all I could think to say was, ``Does OHIP
   cover this?''


   ``If it's a referral,'' he said.


   Right now an interesting dance is going on around the question of
   UFOs. Call it the Catch-22 Two-step. The U.S. government has always
   denied that all those bizarre sightings were UFOs. Because of this,
   people naturally believed they were UFOs. Nobody believes the
   government. Had the government said, ``Yikes! UFOs are everywhere!
   We've been invaded!'' people would've said, ``The government is
   cuckoo, as usual.''


   So, just what is it you thought they probed? Your ears? ``Xgfyy!
   Kngrg dm! Frgq!'' (``Hey! Lookit this! Wax!'')


   Not as I understand it.


   I understand a thing or two about it because I myself have been
   abducted, although in my case I am one of the very few who was
   probed, I guess you might say, abnormally. I didn't mention getting
   abducted to that psychiatrist because I hadn't mentioned it to my GP,
   and without OHIP coverage can you imagine what he'd have charged me
   for our conversation at that cocktail party? He probably would've
   been able to dash out and buy a second Mercedes. Put down cash.  In
   my case, I was abducted by aliens from a planet of intergalactic
   dentists. ``Hjfft!'' (``Bleeding gums!'') ``Kkfgzzz!''
   (``Abscesses!'') ``Pn!'' (``He should quit smoking!'') ``Glm mv mv!''
   (``Plaque!'') ``Fzplat!'' (``Spit!'')


   I came to under a bridge in Oshawa, bare-naked, clutching a floss
   dispenser. Nobody who's been abducted and probed in this manner ever
   talks about it. People think you're a goofball.


   You can recognize people who have been subjected to the normal
   probing by the way they walk. That's my theory.


   It makes sense, when you think about it. David Jacobs of Temple
   University in Philadelphia has written a book that explains why.


   ``If it's a very busy ship - let's say there are 20 tables and
   they've abducted 40 people,'' the aliens are what you could describe
   as overbooked. As a result they are brusque and clinical. ``I would
   use the word task-oriented.''


   Get the point? They don't have time to warm up the, what do you call
   them, instruments. Like in M*A*S*H* where they're always so rushed
   they don't even rinse the scalpel between operations. Wheel in
   another one. Open him up.


   Even if the probers had the inclination, and maybe it has never
   occurred to them. According to Jacobs, they have cold, rubbery skin.



   If you lived on a planet of cold rubbery beings and somebody probed
   you with a warm whatever, you'd go, ``Bgnn! Fgrnng rq urgf! Nv tdt p
   hkkw bn tdtp kqlqmb rbzx?'' (``Ooh! That feels awful! Have you no
   respect for your patient's comfort?'') You'd want them to use
   something that just came out of the fridge.


   Anyway, as a result of all this, if you watch the way people walk you
   can pretty well tell for sure. And often the way they sit. TV
   anchors, for example. You notice how a lot of them stay standing
   during newscasts these days? I think there's been a run on TV news
   anchors lately. And when they do sit, they kind of lean over to one
   side?


   Unless they've been probed by dental aliens, but I'm not going to go
   into that. We don't. We keep our mouths shut.


   [W 4]******


   Take a Virtual Tour of the Pentagon


   Now is your chance to take a tour around the Pentagon from the
   comfort of your own chair and computer monitor.


   Point your browser at:


   www.defenselink.mil


   The full tour which uses Real Player takes 24 minutes or it can be
   split into it's 14 subsections...


   Introduction
   DoD Organization
   Secretary of Defense Corridor
   Army Executive Corridor
   Air Force Executive Corridor
   Marine Corps Executive Corridor
   Navy Executive Corridor
   Hall of Heroes
   MacArthur Corridor
   Military Women's Corridor
   African American Corridor
   Hispanic Heroes Exhibit
   Navajo Code Talkers Exhibit
   Closing/Tour Information


   [W 5]******


   Source: exoscience
   http://www.exosci.com/
   New Scientist


   Publish Date: Wednesday 20th October 1999


   Moon Mystery


   Reports of curious flashes and fleeting clouds on the Moon may not be
   figments of wild imaginations, astronomers say. A new look at
   observations by the American satellite Clementine show that a small
   area on the Moon's surface darkened and reddened in April 1994. Why
   this happened remains a mystery.


   For hundreds of years, people have reported seeing flashes,
   short-lived clouds and other brief changes on the Moon's surface. But
   astronomers have never been able to confirm the sightings. "The
   events were observed on many occasions, but most astronomers don't
   believe in them," says Bonnie Buratti of NASA's Jet Propulsion
   Laboratory in Pasadena, California.


   On 23 April 1994, around a hundred amateur astronomers reported
   seeing a possible darkening of the Moon, lasting 40 minutes, near the
   edge of the bright lunar crater Aristarchus. At the same time, the US
   Department of Defense's Clementine satellite was mapping the lunar
   surface.


   Intrigued by the amateur reports, Buratti's team has taken a close
   look at the Clementine data to see if the satellite also recorded the
   event. Sure enough, they found that the crater looked different
   before and after the amateur reports. "After the event, it looks
   redder," says Buratti, who announced the findings at a meeting of the
   American Astronomical Society in Padua, Italy, last week.


   Winifred Cameron, a retired astronomer who worked at the Lowell
   Observatory in Arizona, thinks that brief colour changes might be
   caused by small gas eruptions throwing dust around. We know that
   there are pockets of gas in the lunar soil, and the gas may
   occasionally escape. "I'm pretty sure that some of these changes are
   due to emanations of gas that are more dense than usual," says
   Cameron. "The Aristarchus region is the source of about a third of
   all of these.


   Charles Seife


   [W 6]******


   Source: BBC News Online
   Publish Date: Monday 5th July 1999
   From: doug@greenmen.demon.co.uk


   Furry puppet turns up in ET search


   Greetings to the people of planet Earth


   By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse


   The SETI@home Website, a project that processes data collected by
   radio telescopes in a Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
   project has been hacked. For about five hours on Sunday [during
   July], the home page was replaced with a single word - "WANTED" - and
   an image of ALF, an extraterrestrial from a US TV sitcom of the same
   name. Those who have not previously encountered this interstellar
   ambassador may like to know that he crash-landed in a garage in Los
   Angeles in 1986. He was named ALF, or Alien Life Form, by the humans
   who were involved in first contact with him. The title of the Seti
   Website was replaced with the words "attention people of Earth..."
   Good looks Officials have dismissed it as an annoying prank, pointing
   out that the hackers are wide of the mark when it comes to their
   choice of an extraterrestrial. The problem with the hairy ALF is that
   he is just too human-looking. Experts believe that alien life, if it
   exists, is probably not like us. Indeed, they believe that if
   evolution was re-run on Earth, it is very unlikely that anything
   resembling humans - let alone ALF - would emerge a second time. Not
   that many Seti scientists would be disappointed in finding something
   like ALF - they just do not expect it to happen. Project officials
   said that while they are satisfied with the security of their other
   servers, they are checking them to be certain. The SETI@home project,
   which opened to the public in mid-May, harnesses the downtime
   computer power of subscribers to sift through data obtained by a
   radio telescope to look for signals from space. More than 600,000
   people have signed up since the project began.

  -[continued in part 2]-










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 3

                    04 pt 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ukufonw@FREENETNAME.CO.UK>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:27:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:08:38 -0500
Subject: 04 pt 2 - United Kingdom UFO Network

           ______ _______ ______
   ------ /  /  //  ____//     /---------------------------------------
    U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  /                      31st December 1999
        /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K          Part 2 Issue 104
   --- (_____//__/    (_____/------------------------------------------


The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
subscribers in 58 countries. This e-zine is published in 3 parts. If
you are missing a part or parts e-mail us with the subject 'MISSING
PARTS' and we will mail you the whole e-zine.


e-mail us: ufo@ukufonw.co.uk
fax us: (44) 0870 0883592
web site: www.ukufonw.co.uk


[W 7]******


Source: exoscience
www.exosci.com
Publish Date: May 1999


Multinational spy system ...


A report from the European Parliament has surfaced over the existence
of a multinational (United Kingdom, United States, Canada, Australia,
and New Zealand) spy system that has been in place for many years
which, among other things, tracks and analyzes all data passing
through certain communications satellites, transoceanic submarine
cables, and internet exchange points. This system, known as
"Echelon", is capable of recognizing data of political and/or
economic interest.


"According to a former employee, NSA had by 1995 installed "sniffer"
software to collect traffic at nine major Internet exchange points."
-TechWeb


The Echelon system has been used both for political and economic
means. Industrial espionage against European corporations, whose
governments are not involved in the Echelon system, has been
reported. Even more staggering is the potential for the invasion of
the privacy of ordinary citizens.The data interception systems are
obviously in place and are being used on data passing through these
systems.


Read more & debate this at:
http://www.exosci.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000001.html


Spread the word,
Dave Watanabe
davew@exosci.com


"Together with the giant American National Security Agency (NSA) and
its Canadian, British, and New Zealand counterparts, DSD operates a
network of giant, highly automated tracking stations that illicitly
pick up commercial satellite communications and examine every fax,
telex, e-mail, phone call, or computer data message that the
satellites carry.


The five signals intelligence agencies form the UKUSA pact. They are
bound together by a secret agreement signed in 1947 or 1948. Although
its precise terms have never been revealed, the UKUSA agreement
provides for sharing facilities, staff, methods, tasks and product
between the participating governments.


Now, due to a fast-growing UKUSA system called Echelon, millions of
messages are automatically intercepted every hour, and checked
according to criteria supplied by intelligence agencies and
governments in all five UKUSA countries. The intercepted signals are
passed through a computer system called the Dictionary, which checks
each new message or call against thousands of ``collection''
requirements. The Dictionaries then send the messages into the spy
agencies' equivalent of the Internet, making them accessible all over
the world. "


[W 8]******


Source: NewMax.com
http://38.201.154.103/articles/?a=3D1999/2/11/00539
Publish Date: 11th February 1999
From: "David C PlaceJr" dplace@dreamscape.com


Apollo Astronaut Was Murdered, Son Charges


Christopher Ruddy


Virgil I. "Gus" Grissom, the astronaut slated to be the first man to
walk on the moon, was murdered, his son has charged in the Feb. 16
edition of Star magazine. In another stunning development, a lead
NASA investigator has charged that the agency engaged in a cover-up
of the true cause of the catastrophe that killed Grissom and two
other astronauts.


The tabloid exclusive by Steve Herz reports that Scott Grissom, 48,
has gone public with the family's long-held belief that their father
was purposefully killed during Apollo I.


The Jan. 27, 1967, Apollo I mission was a simulated launch in
preparation for an actual lunar flight.


NASA concluded that the Apollo I deaths of Grissom, as well as
astronauts Edward H. White and Roger Chafee, were the result of an
explosive fire that burst from the pure oxygen atmosphere of the
space capsule. NASA investigators could not identify what caused the
spark, but wrote the catastrophe off as an accident.


"My father's death was no accident. He was murdered," Grissom, a
commercial pilot, told Star.


Grissom said he recently was granted access to the charred capsule
and discovered a "fabricated" metal plate located behind a control
panel switch. The switch controlled the capsules' electrical power
source from an outside source to the ship's batteries. Grissom argues
that the placement of the metal plate was an act of sabotage. When
one of the astronauts toggled the switch to transfer power to the
ship's batteries, a spark was created that ignited a fireball.


Clark Mac Donald, a McDonnell-Douglas engineer hired by NASA to
investigate the fire, offered corroborating evidence. Breaking more
than three decades of silence, Mac Donald says he determined that an
electrical short caused by the changeover to battery power had
sparked the fire.


He says that NASA destroyed his report and interview tapes in an
effort to stem public criticism of the space program.


"I have agonized for 31 years about revealing the truth, but I didn't
want to hurt NASA's image or cause trouble," Mac Donald told the
paper. "But I can't let one more day go by without the truth being
known."


Grissom's widow, Betty, now 71, told Star she agrees with her son's
claim that her husband had been murdered.


"I believe Scott has found the key piece of evidence to prove NASA
knew all along what really happened but covered up to protect funding
for the race to the moon."


Scott Grissom told Star that the motive for his father's killing may
have been related to NASA's desire not have his father be the first
man to walk on the moon because of criticism leveled at Grissom in
1961 after his Mercury capsule, Liberty 7, sunk in the Atlantic.


Critics of Grissom, including novelist Tom Wolfe, have claimed the
astronaut panicked when his space capsule landed in the ocean, and he
prematurely pulled an explosive charge to open the ship's hatch,
causing it to sink.


Fellow astronauts, however, gave Grissom the benefit of the doubt for
several reasons. Grissom was a decorated Korean War pilot who had
flown nearly 100 combat missions. He was a courageous man not known
to panic.


There was also evidence that the explosive device on the hatch could
accidentally blow without being pulled -- a fact that led NASA to
remove such devices from future spacecraft.


Also, had Grissom pulled the explosive release on the hatch, his hand
or arm should have had powder and bruise marks. Neither were found.


Grissom, one of the original Mercury seven, was the senior astronaut
when the Apollo missions began.


Among the astronauts, Grissom was the most critical of the
problem-plagued Apollo program, and the main Apollo contractor, North
American Aviation.


Shortly before his death, Grissom had taken a large lemon and hung it
around the space capsule as the press looked on. He had suggested
publicly that the project could never be accomplished on time.


The Associated Press reported, "`Pretty slim' was the way [Grissom]
put his Apollo's chances of meeting its mission requirements."


The Grissom family had reason to doubt the official NASA ruling from
the beginning. Even before Apollo I, Grissom had received death
threats which his family believed emanated from within the space
program.


The threats were serious enough that he was put under Secret Service
protection and had been moved from his home to a secure safehouse.


According to his wife, Grissom had warned her that "if there is ever
a serious accident in the space program, it's likely to be me."


The Apollo I disaster led to a series of congressional hearings into
the incident and NASA. During the hearings, one launch pad inspector,
Thomas Baron, sharply criticized NASA's handling of the incident and
testified that the astronauts attempted to escape the capsule earlier
than officially claimed.


Baron was fired soon after giving the testimony, and died, along with
his wife, when his car was struck by a train. Authorities ruled the
deaths as suicide.


During the congressional hearings, Sen. Walter Mondale questioned the
efficacy of manned space programs. Manned space flights were opposed
by many of the leading space scientists at the time, including Drs.
James Van Allen and Thomas Gold.


[W 9]******


uk.ufo.nw takes a look at SETI@home web information.


I thought that we would take a look at the SETI@home site this issue.
For the purposes of this report the date I visited their site was
Sunday 26th December 1999. Things may have changed between now and
then.


One of the first things that caught my eye was a link taking me to
the 'Distant Suns - The SETI at Home Version'


Here is the text from this page.


---=3D=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D---


Distant Suns - The SETI at Home Version


"I'm really boggled - [Distant Suns] is beautiful... I am totally
awed by what you've done!" - Arthur C. Clarke


author :


2001 - A Space Odyssey
Childhood's End
Rendezvous with Rama


Distant Suns is one of the premier desktop astronomy packages of all
time. For both casual skywatchers to seasoned amateur astronomers,
Distant Suns will take you from your home to the outer reaches of the
Universe and back. For more details about the software, click here.


In cooperation with the SETI@Home group, I am proud to offer a
special version of my software, Distant Suns. Not only are you able
to process SETI data, but now you can see exactly what part of the
sky your data belongs to, and when it will be visible each night.


Distant Suns is an award winning leader in astronomy software for
both the PC and Macintosh (only the PC version currently works with
the SETI files however).


To get your free copy of Distant Suns/The SETI version, click here.
The download is about 4.7 Megs in size.


To use, simply extract and install the file in typical fashion, start
it up, and if the SETI software was installed in the standard
location Distant Suns will immediately take you directly to "your
place in the sky".


If Distant Suns 4 does all you want it to do, please enjoy it and
share it with your friends and family. However you may purchase the
most recent version, Distant Suns 5.1, on CD for $34.95. To do so,
click here. (Note that the current shipping version of Distant Suns
does not yethave the SETI extentions. Those will be available for
download in the next few weeks).


Attention Mac users :


The SETI version for the Mac is not yet ready, but a Mac demo of the
current CD version is available here.


---=3D=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D---


Next the totals.


---=3D=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D---


Totals


Last updated: Sun Dec 26 14:00:46 1999 UTC


TotalLast 24 Hours


Users 1545031| 1941
Results received53508731 | 367583
Total CPU time142990.24 years| 746.67 years
Floating Point Operations 1.070175e+20 | 7.351660e+17
  (8.51 TeraFLOPs/sec)

Average CPU time per work unit 23hr 24min 33.0sec |
17hr 47min 39.1sec


---=3D=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D---


Here are the news summaries from SETI@home which otherwise some
people may never get to read.


---=3D=3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D---


SETI@home News Summaries


We're grateful to everyone who has participated in SETI@home. The
response to SETI@home has been overwhelming. Whether or not we detect
ETI, SETI@home users have confirmed the viability of an entirely new
way of doing science using Internet computing.


At its core, the SETI@home project is tiny: four part-time employees
and two volunteers (Dan Werthimer and myself). We're trying to do
something new, complex and difficult. We've had a few growing pains
and our server computers are still struggling to handle the
tremendous load. We apologize and ask for your understanding if there
are glitches in the system or if our news updates are infrequent -
we're all doing our best!


David P. Anderson
Project Director


November 12, 1999 SETI@home has been honored by Popular Science as
one of the 100 of the year's best achievements in science and
technology. Please vote for us in their Reader's Choice poll (in the
Computers and Software category).


October 22, 1999 SETI@home has now accumulated more than 100,000
years of computer time, more than any other computing project in
history! We have recorded over 85 million "candidate signals" (spikes
and Gaussians) in our database, and we're preparing to start the
second phase of analysis, which will search these candidates looking
for "repeat events".


August 18, 1999 SETI@home has been named as one of Popular Science's
"50 Best Of The Web." This annual award recognizes the site for "its
excellent science and technology content". Thanks! August 14, 1999
SETI@home eclipses one million user mark. Early this morning
(Berkeley time) Ed Bradburn from England became the millionth
SETI@home user. Mr. Bradburn writes: "The excellent film of Sagan's
'Contact' really got me interested in the concept of reaching out to
search the stars (something I've been intrigued by ever since reading
Asimov's 'The Gods Themselves' and Sagan and Shklovskii's
'Intelligent Life in the Universe'). I'm proud to be the 1,000,000
participant in the SETI@Home project and hope that there'll be many
more!"


Congratulations to Mr. Bradburn and our other million users, to our
software and web site volunteers, and to the SETI@home team. In less
than three months, SETI@home has significantly expanded the SETI
search, has increased awareness of SETI in homes and classrooms, and
has become the largest computing project in history.


August 11, 1999 Go here to read the transcript of the Yahoo! Chat
Event on July 30.


July 28, 1999 There will be a Yahoo! Chat Event devoted to SETI@home
from 5 to 7 PM (PST) this Friday 7/30/1999.


June 12, 1999 The response to SETI@home has been wonderful. It's been
four weeks since launch and already there are 600,000 participants!
SETI@home is now our planet's largest supercomputer -- spread out
over 205 countries. We are extremely grateful to all the SETI@home
participants.


May 17, 1999. Launch! The SETI@home project is successfully underway.



May 13, 1999. The Windows and Mac versions of SETI@home are now
available for download. We are upgrading our FTP server performance
in preparation for the final launch on May 17. We made a snapshot of
statistics from the beta-testing period, and reset all totals to
zero.



Congratulations to Kyle Granger, Charlie Fenton, and Brad Silen, who
did a fantastic job on the Windows and Mac versions.


May 4, 1999. The Windows and Mac versions of SETI@home are now in the
hands of 7,000 beta testers. Problems involving firewalls and proxies
are being fixed. We're on schedule for the May 17 launch.


April 6, 1999. We released the UNIX version of the SETI@home client.
Within a few hours, a couple of thousand people were using the
program. As expected, this created a heavy load on the server for the
first time, and we hastily fixed a number of problems.


March 28, 1999. We are continuing beta-testing and debugging of the
Windows and UNIX versions of the client. The Macintosh version is
nearing completion. We're still on schedule for an April launch,
though it may be towards the end of the month.


February 22, 1999. Our server-side software has been modified to use
an Informix relational database for all storage.


January 20, 1999. The University of California Digital Media
Innovation Program has awarded SETI@home a grant to match funding
from our sponsors.


January 20, 1999. The Windows version of the client now seems to be
stable, and we have expanded testing to about 50 users. We have
started porting the client to Macintosh, and are also rewriting the
server-side software to allow it to handle 100,000+ users.


November 20, 1998. Today we began testing the SETI@home screensaver
with real users. Our first distribution was to 3 users, and over the
next few months we will ramp up to 100 or so.


November 20, 1998. The data recording system is completed and
operational at Arecibo. We have begun recording and collecting tapes
(35 Gigabytes each) of the data the will eventually be distributed to
SETI@home users.


October 7 1998. We have received some funding commitments
(announcements forthcoming). We have begun development of the data
recorder and the data-handling software, and are continuing
development of the client software.


July 30 1998. Several dozen volunteer programmers have contributed to
the development of the client program, and volunteers from around the
world have translated the web page into several languages.
Engineering Design Team Inc. (EDT) has donated analog-to-digital
interfaces for the data collection system.


We continue to seek the funding that we need to complete the
science-only version of the system. We have some good possibilities,
but nothing definite so far. Because of this, the schedule for the
science-only version has slipped at least a couple of months.


June 10 1998. The UC Berkeley SETI program received the Smithsonian
Institute medal for first place in 1998 science and technology
innovation. More....


June 1998. Sun Microsystems has agreed to make a donation of computer
hardware to SETI@home. This donation is of major importance, as the
computers will form the backbone of our data recording and
distribution systems.


May 1998. The Center for Electronic Art in San Francisco is running a
workshop to design an enhanced Web site and other graphical elements
for SETI@home.


March 1998. The Planetary Society has offered its support to the
project as a co-sponsor, and will be assisting us in recruiting other
sponsors.


September 1997. More than 35,000 people have joined the SETI@home
mailing list, many after seeing Dan Werthimer discuss the project on
the Discovery Channel. Also during September -- the first magnetic
tape of test data from Arecibo was returned to Berkeley. This will be
used to test the analysis algorithms, and get an initial sense of the
terrestrial interference characteristics.


August 1997. Dan Werthimer was interviewed on NPR's All Things
Considered. Other stories this month included one by PC World. The
SETI@home mailing list grew to 10,000 people. Senior members of the
SETI Institute accepted invitations to sit on our advisory board.


June 1997. The SETI@home web site was established, and David Gedye
was interviewed by the New York Times.


[W 10]******


New Mexico UFO Sighting Caught On Video
December 1999


uk.ufo.nw - This interesting sighting was reported on the Jeff Rense
Sightings Home Page at: www.jeffrense.com Here you will find the
photographs mentioned in the report.


Dear Jeff,


A new UFO sighting took place in Mexico city last December 8th with
many witnesses and was fortunately videotaped by a local resident.
This is the report:


Last Wednesday, December 8th, was not an ordinary day for Jos=E9
Gerstl, an executive from Mexico city. He witnessed, for the first
time in his life, one of the so-called OVNIs (UFOs) in the sky on a
clear morning and only a very short distance away. This is his
testimony:


"That morning, as usual, I woke up and turned the TV on to watch the
news before going to work. I looked to my left side and saw through
the window a strange object at certain distance floating at low
altitude. It was 7:20 AM and I live in Tecamachalco, Colonia Bosques
de las Lomas, a district of Huixquilucan in Mexico City.


At first sighting, the object looked like a small ball and was still
in the air. I presumed that it could be a ballon so my first
impression didn't disturbed me. But in a few seconds, it began moving
forward and backwards slowly and I realized that something was wrong.
I took a more careful look and it was then that it emitted the first
beam of light among the reflection of the sunlight on the left side.



At this moment, I realized it was not a ballon. It must be an OVNI
was my thought, and I quickly ran for my videocamera thinking that
this could my chance to tape one of that strange objects so many
reported here in Mexico city.


I went back to my window and began filming...and the object seemed to
have gotten closer. It was a clear morning with a bright sun at 7:45
AM, so I had a good view and with my camera's zoom lens I made some
closeups of the OVNI.


It had a oval shape at first, and a slight movement from right to
left and backwards. Then the sunlight reflected in some way on the
left side of the object.


About 4 minutes passed when suddenly it emitted some kind of beam of
bright light from the center and then the light turned from yellowish
to reddish in sequence and then returned to white again.


The sighting lasted almost 8 minutes and I had to run to the roof of
the building since the OVNI moved out of my sight range from the
window. On the roof, I was able to film the last two minutes of the
sightings and then the OVNI suddenly disappeared very quickly to my
right side.


I was very excited and by this time my wife was also. I returned to
my apartament to watch the video but before that I waited another15
minutes on the roof waiting for the OVNI to appear again, but it
did'nt. I noticed that some neighbors also witnessed the OVNI and
were excited as well. Now I don't know what I've got on tape but I'm
sure it was not a ballon nor a plane or a bird, it had to be
something else. " '''''


I want to express my gratitude to Mr. Jose Gerstl for sending me his
ufo sighting video and to agree to be interviewed. His valuable
testimony is another evidence of the amazing ufo wave that is
happening here in Mexico, something that should be investigated more
seriously.


Santiago Yturria


OVNI Investigaciones
Mexico.


---


Dear Jeff:


These are some additional stills from the amazing ufo footage taken
by Jose Gerstl in Mexico City on December 8, 1999.


These stills were captured during our computer analysis of the
footage and we discovered interesting things related with the
behavior of the ufo.


It was emiting spinning beams of white light in a random sequence and
later it changed to yellow and red colors as you can notice on still
# 5. We also discovered with the computer a certain flashing light on
the top...also in a random sequence and visible in several stills.


I'm going to send you a copy of the original video so you and your
team can see for yourselves all the details of this fortunate
daylight footage taken by Mr. Gerstl.


Merry Christmas to you all.


Santiago Yturria,
Mexico



Letters
-------


From: Paul <paulw@tcp.co.uk
Subject: Lights over Dorset???


Hi


I live in Dorset and have read since Christmas 1998 newspaper reports
(Bournemouth Daily Evening Echo) about unknown lights in the skies
above Dorset.


If there is any 'light' that you could shead on this I would
appreciate it as I think it would be wonderful if it could be
concluded that we have our own UFOs in or over Dorset.


Please note the email is coming to you via a cybercafe so will appear
as unvevirifed, this is not so. I don't access the net at home but
this is my genunine account.


Thanks


Regards


Paul Weaver


---


From: ElPatricio@aol.com
Subject: Jerry Hartsell's book


Dear Sir or Madam,


I am a writer who has come across the reference to a book published
by


former IBM chairman Jerry Hartsell, that purportedly included a
reference to the roots of microelectronics. So far, I have been
unable to locate information about a book by Jerry Hartsell from
online booksellers, nor locate the address of the magazine, "Outlook:
Tomorrow's Technology Today," that the review appeared in.


Can you help me in either quest? Considering the similar claims made
by the late Col. Philip Corso and computer manufacturer Jack Shulman,
there are many here in the States who would like to acquire
Hartsell's book.


Thanks for any help you can provide.


Pat McCartney
Auburn Journal



Serialisation
-------------


Part three of three...


Foo Fighters, Fireballs and "Project Saucer."
Copyright: Jim Morris. 1996/97/98


Jim Morris <dx394@clara.net



Barely a year after the end of WW2, 'Ghost Rockets' appeared
principally over Scandinavia, and fuelled speculation that the
Soviets were testing captured V-2's, or worse, an improved weapon of
their own manufacture. In October 1946, the Swedish defence ministry
later issued a communique stating that radar had detected around two
hundred objects 'which cannot be the phenomena of nature or products
of imagination, nor can they be referred to as Swedish airplanes.'
The followingyear saw the arrival of the 'saucers', and again the
Soviets were the prime suspects. Asthe reports increased throughout
1947, manyby military personnel, a similaritywith these reports
and those of aphenomena encountered by allied pilots during the War
was noted.


In some of the wartime incidents, pilots reported that despite taking
violent evasive action, they were unable to shake offthe
phenomenon. In these casesthe object was of the small ball of light
variety, described as being8 too 10 inches in diameter. There is a
similarity here with the 1948 incident at Fargo, North Dakota.
Ground observers of this incident confirmed the bright light which
the pilot (Gorman) was attempting to intercept., and his evasive
manoeuvres. They did not see the light perform the actions the pilot
claimed.The pilot (Gorman) at his debriefing, was questioned at
some length as to the objects size in relation to its relative
position from the aircraft as viewed through the canopy. Gorman was
of the opinion that the objects size and distance did not change. The
Project Sign report of the incident leaves the reader with the
impression that there was a light source present during the incident,
but the manuevers claimed by the pilot were due to spatial
disorientation caused by light reflections from the canopy. The
aircraft involved in this incident the P-51 Mustang, figures in two
other UFO reports, Laredo and the Mantel incident.


The outstanding allied fighter of the War, the Mustang was fitted
with a'Bubble' canopy, which gave excellent all round vision. A
similar type of canopy was fitted to the P-47 Thunderbolt, one of
which encountered a UFO in the Oak Ridge incident of the same year.
(1948) Thismight explain the incidents quoted. The reports made by
Night fighter and bomber crews are harder to explain, and the
'hallucination theory' becomes untenable when photographs of the
objects exist. Gorman's encounter is referred to in Project Sign (Feb
1949) pg 9, under Balls Of Light and states 'No reasonable hypothesis
of the true nature of balls of light, such as that reported by Lt.
Gorman at Fargo, North Dakota, has been developed that explains the
behaviour reported. The most reasonable explanation is that the
lights were suspended from balloons, or other means of support, not
visible at night, and the violent maneuvers reported are due to
illusion ."



The lack of information on Foo Fighter's from official British
sources is strange, and makes you wonder ifthe some of the Foo
Fighter's were Allied secret weapons, or a phenomenon produced by the
H2S radar. The APC pressrelease ofNovember 44, said "newfangled
gadgets against Allied night fighters. The New York Times of January
2, 1945, had banner headlines "Balls of fire stalk US fighters in
night assaults over Germany" and continues "balls of fire that race
alongside the wings of American Beaufighter's." After the War,
Hulsmeyer's daughter wrote toChurchill asking him to acknowledge
the fact that her father was the true inventor of radar, not
Wattson-Watt. ( In reality, British radar was developed by two of
Wattson-Watt's staff, H.Windpress and A. Wilkins.) Churchill refused
her request, and the British public believed what can only be
describe as alie. This incident shows that Britain can, and does,
distort the truth and put a wall of secrecy around whatever the
Government of the day considers to sensitive for the tax payers
ear's. Perhaps the technology behind the Christmas Tree Lights" Foo
Fighter's is still in use today.

  -[continued in part 3]-








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                 Issue 104 pt 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

From: United Kingdom UFO Network <ukufonw@FREENETNAME.CO.UK>
Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 23:27:47 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:13:10 -0500
Subject: Issue 104 pt 3 - United Kingdom UFO Network

           ______ _______ ______
   ------ /  /  //  ____//     /---------------------------------------
    U K  /  /  //  ___/ /  /  /                      31st December 1999
        /  /  //  /    /  /  /  N E T W O R K         Part 3  Issue 104
   --- (_____//__/    (_____/------------------------------------------


   The United Kingdom UFO Network - a free electronic magazine with
   subscribers in 58 countries. This e-zine is published in 3 parts. If
   you are missing a part or parts e-mail us with the subject 'MISSING
   PARTS' and we will mail you the whole e-zine.

   e-mail us: ufo@ukufonw.co.uk
   fax us: (44) 0870 0883592
   web site: www.ukufonw.co.uk

   This Foo Fighter, as noted, the description, number and behaviour of
   the objects reported are almost identical.  I find it hard to believe
   that this could be due simply to coincidence. The Tremonton, Utah
   incident has been the subject of debate for decades. The apparent
   conflict of interpretation regarding  the Newhouse film between the U
   S Air Force and Navy  is strange to say the least. Given the
   photographic evidence, location and date of this incident, we can be
   certain that it was not due to light reflections from battle damaged
   aircraft, or "hallucination." If the Foo Fighter's per se, were an
   form of natural phenomenon, why has the wartime Intelligence analysis
   of them not been made public?  If there was a Projekt Saucer, and the
   aircraft or research data from this project were captured as claimed,
   why should  the existence of such remain secret? The answer is
   obvious. The technology used in these weapon systems has been
   developed still further, is in service and highly classified.

   Perhaps the Spitzbergen Saucer was a machine from the Silverbug
   Project, there a similarities in the description of the allegedly
   recovered disk and "Silverbug."  Regarding the Nazi Disk, the choice
   of Spitzbergen as the destination for an expensive experimental
   aircraft seems strange. The only  German troops on the island during
   the war were a meteorological team whose task was to supply weather
   reports, vital for the U-boats and Focke-Wulf reconnaissance
   aircraft. Despite being in radio contact with Berlin and knowing that
   Germany had capitulated on the 4th May, the men did not surrender
   until September. The teams commander allegedly not knowing how to
   negotiate a surrender! By co-incidence, at least two U-boats followed
   the weathermen_s example. The U-530 surrendered in July 1945 and the
   U-977 on 18th August. Both were surrendered in Argentina, and are
   said to have been supplying a Nazi base in Antarctica.

   The end of the War did not end the Foo Fighter saga, on the contrary,
   they reappeared with a vengeance over New Mexico and the neighbouring
   States in 1946, and arguably,  Scandinavia.

   Conclusions.

   Not all the "Foo-Fighter' were weapons of one kind or another, nor
   were they due soley to natural phenomena or battle fatigue. Exactly
   what they were is anybodies guess. The late Luis Alvarez, who with HP
   Robertson investigated the reports during the war, was an expert in
   radar and Electronic countermeasures(ECM). His Early Warning
   Microwave radar was used during D-day. A Nobel laureate, today, he is
   best remembered for his work on the Cretaceous Impacter, that
   supposedly wiped out the dinosaurs.

   Summary of events

   1904  Christian Hulsmeyer invents radar
   1922  Tesla and Marconi experiment with "reflecting waves"
   1932  Swedish "Ghost Planes" appear
   1935   Britain tests AI radar aboard aircraft.
   1940/41     Epp sends model of his disk to German Air ministry
   1942  The Los Angeles incident
   1944  Foo Fighters
   1945/46       AVRO-Canada start work on a flying disk.
   1946  Swedish "Ghost Rockets" appear. US asked to help identify
   phenomenon General Doolittle investigates. 1947       UFO's appear in
   force. Admiral Byrd heads for Antarctica and the USAF & CIA are
   formed. 1952  The Spitzbergen Saucer reported in German newspaper.
   1953  Greek newspaper reports Nazi saucer project, and Canadian
   involvement in flying disks. 1954     Canada admits trying to build
   Saucer immediately after the war. 1959        Lusar publishes his book

   References
   *1    German Weapons and Secret Weapons Of  The Second World War.
   Maj. Rudolph Lusar

   *2    Memo 00-W-2745. Information From Foreign Documents or Radio

                                    Broadcasts. 1952 *3  Inside the Third
   Reich, Albert Speer *4        Flying Saucers from Outer Space, Maj. D E.
   Keyhoe *5     The UFO Encyclopaedia, Margaret Sachs *6        UFO Secrets Of
The
   Third Reich, Royal Atlantis *7        Most Secret War, Prof. R V. Jones
   *8    UFO Exist!, Paris Flammonde *9  Fighters, Bill Gunston *10      The
   Robertson Report *11  The Radar War, David Pritchard *12      The Last 100
   Days, John Toland *13 The UFO Encyclopaedia, John Spencer *14 UFO's:
   A Federal Case, Peter Brookesmith *15 Suicide weapon, A J Barker
   *16   Flying Saucers: An Analysis of the Air Force Project Blue Book
   special report No 14
                     Leon  Davidson

   Bibliography

   German weapons And Secret Weapons of  The Second World War and Their
   Development. Maj. Rudolph Lusar, New York Philosophical Library. 1959

   Most Secret War, Prof. R V. Jones,
   Coronet Books, 1978

   The Rise and Fall Of The Luftwaffe, David Irving.
   Futura Publications Ltd. 1976

   Ultra Goes To War, Ronald Lewin.

   Grafton, 1988

   UFO Exist! Paris Flammonde.
   Ballantine Books.1977

   The UFO Encyclopaedia, Margaret Sachs.
   Corgi, 1981

   The Radar War, David Pritchard.
   Patrick Stephens Ltd. 1989

   Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer.
   Sphere Books Ltd. 1971

   Fighters, Bill Gunston.
   Optimum Books. 1981

   The Last 100 Days, John Toland.
   Phoenix, 1994

   UFO Secrets of  the Third Reich,
   Royal Atlantis GmbH.
   Stettin, Austria.

   UFO's: A Federal Case. Peter Brookesmith,
   The Unexplained, Orbis. 1984

   Suicide Weapon, A J. Barker.
   Pan/Ballantine Illustrated History of World War II
   Pan/Ballantine 1972.


   ----------===============******************===============----------

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               Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:51:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:15:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus


 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:56:05 -0300
 >From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar>
 >Subject: Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >This transparent quality of object is something I witnessed
 >personally in 1987, using binoculars. Also, I have got similar
 >descriptions of "transparent" sightings in Papua New Guinea,
 >where I worked few years ago. It is curious...


Hi, Carlos!

There are many possible explanations for a semi-transparent
appearance to an airborne object:

1) Low visibility paint - see US Navy aircraft paint schemes -
or other sky-similar coloration

2) Luminous emissions from the near surface area of the object,
with a color similar to the sky.

3) High reflectivity.

4) (1), (2) or (3) combined with haze.

As long as an object does not pass in front of any object in the
sky there is no way to determine transparency. In the case of
(3) or (4) even apparent passage in front of a cloud or other
object may not be suifficient, unless the field of view from the
object toward the observer differs substantially and
distinguishably from that behind - and even in that case, there
can well be a number of unusual perceptual factors at work which
might still convey the impression of transparency.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, music and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------








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                       UFO Sighting On Yorkshire Moors

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 15:28:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:25:38 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting On Yorkshire Moors


Maybe someone can help this guy out?

Source: uk.rec.ufo newsgroup


Andrew Makinson <Domestos@rahrahrandel.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:


Something to report,

Until 11 o'clock tonight I had little interest in UFO's or
little green men, the event which has changed me happened
earlier tonight on my way back from my parents house in
Holmfirth.

I had been to a millennium celebrations party over the new year
at my parents house, driving back over the A635 back to
Stalybridge where I live. I had several people in my car (My
girlfriend and my brother)

I wasn't driving at any speed due to the fog, and I was
approaching a car that had stopped up-ahead. The occupants of
the car were still inside and my girlfriend said that I should
stop and ask if they required any assistance.

Reluctantly, thinking that it may be some kind of trick my
brother and I approached the drivers window and knocked on it.
The driver wound his window down and said to me 'tell me that
you see that' He was pointing toward some bright white lights
facing the road about 100 metres away, rather like car
headlights, but that's all i could see. My first thoughts were,
oh my god someone's come off the road in an accident.

"I asked the man if he had been over to the car ?" , and he said
"it's not a car mate, i don't know what it is"

At this point we heard a sort of  blast of noise rather like a
ships horn. At this point the headlights turned greenish and
dimmed slightly before a reddish bluish glow appeared underneath
at this point the lights shout up into the air, no noise no
nothing and they were gone.

At this point me and the man in the car exchanged telephone
numbers and names and said that we should contact each other
about the incident at a later date to report it.

Although I am sceptical about such things, this incident which
five people witnessed had no explanation in my mind at all. If it
had been an helicopter it would have made some sort of noise
taking off.

I hope to hear from some sort of expert, and would really like
to get a contact number for someone in or near Manchester
regarding UFO experiences. If you require any further
explanations or anything please contact me

Thanx in advance...

Andy Mak.

Todd Lemire
--
"What you believe isn't important; it's what you find out by
research and investigation that's important."

George Fawcett








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:08:00 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:32:03 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 15:00:30 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >Subject: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >From: seer7@netusa1.net (Seer)

 >http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~noelh/photonbelt.htm

 >THE PHOTON-BELT ENCOUNTER
 >By Noel Huntley, Ph.D.


I do wish that people would do their research before posting to
this e-mail group. I refer people to the www address:

http://members.macconnect.com/users/s/stargate/LaViolette/Disinformation.shtml

to see how wrong this posting was. I may have my disagreements
with Paul La Violette, but when it comes to science the facts
speak for themselves. I also add the fact that the Pleiades are
too young to support anything like life yet.


Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au  http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa







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                         'Lynne Bishop's Borderline'

From: Lynne Bishop <lynnebishop@softhome.net>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:53:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:43:42 -0500
Subject: 'Lynne Bishop's Borderline'


Hello, Errol and List,

'Lynne Bishop's Borderline' has moved (effective 01-01-00) to a
new site.

The new URL is:

http://www.edgeofdiscovery.com


Thanks,

Lynne







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                    Re: Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 16:09:25 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:04:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9


 >>Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 11:52:22 +0000
 >>From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 9

 >>CONTENTS

 >>1. Operation BlunderPope.

 >>2. Further Thoughts on RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge.

 >>3. Cash-Landrum 'Special-Ops' Unit Identified?

 >                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O

Hi All,

I think I could answer some of these well worn questions, I am
sure you are all dying to find out the answers so here goes.

 >>1. Operation BlunderPope.

 >Snip:

 >>I recently wrote to Gaynor:

 >>I should be grateful if the Ministry would please answer the
 >>following questions:

 >>1. During Mr Pope's tenure at the 'UFO desk', what was his
 >exact job title?

A:   THE UFO DESK MAN

 >2. What were his main duties?

A:  TO RECEIVE UFO DESK MAN FILES.

 >3. Approximately how much of that time was spent on 'UFO
 >related' investigations?

A:  Divide this answer by how many cups of tea and doughnuts one
can get in between matters, and you have the answer.

 >4. Has the job title, its main duties and the allocation of
 >time to 'UFO' matters changed since Pope's day?

A:  I understand the new title is UFO DESK PERSON (PC) I
understand doughnuts and tea are still available in large
quantities!

 >5. Have the Ministry of Defence ever, as Pope alleges,
 >investigated to any significant extent a single case where a
 >'crop circle', 'alien abduction', or 'animal mutilation
 >('cattle mutilation') has been reported and if so, what was the
 >outcome? [End]

A: I think we know the answer to this one..... It is of 'No
Defence Signifigance'..... Right.....

 >>Contrary to Pope's statement, there were no queries concerning
 >>the MoD's policy or views on 'UFOs' (which are well testified).

 >Please list in some great detail exactly what you feel are the MoD's
 >policy and views on UFO's?

 >>Why he chooses to portray a different picture in more recent times,
 >>particularly as it isn't too difficult to see the truefacts, is
 >>presumably a case of 'enthusiastic marketing'.

Possibly , might be the case here, but what agent(s) do you know
that does not use ' enthusiastic marketing'.? What is a book
without marketing? Agents I have come across will at any
opportunity plug there latest product, book, video etc..

************************************************

 >>2. Further Thoughts on RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge.

 >>A forthcoming publication, which I hope to provide more news
 >>about shortly, will feature the RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge case
 >>and will include previously unpublished documents from the
 >>original witnesses statements taken in early January, 1981.

 >>Details of the contents have previously been made known and
 >>further information can be found on my web site at:

 >>Whatever additional 'phenomena' was perceived by Halt and his
 >>team has to be set in this expanded context. They were looking
 >>for a 'UFO', thought they had found one and everything else was
 >>'thinking UFO'.

 >What is your explaination of the additional 'phenomena' perceived? by
 >Halt and his team?

 >3. Cash-Landrum 'Special-Ops' Unit Identified?

 >>Another former serviceman recently told me of the night-time
 >>helicopter manoeuvres by Britain's elite Special Air Service
 >>(SAS) and recalled one particular incident:

 >>"They did not make a lot of sound, but they came in fast. When
 >>they departed, they turned their lights back on and went off in
 >>separate directions. We did exercises with the SAS all the
 >>time".

Please can you give anymore details as to what part of the Army
this former serviceman held service? I would like to know the
team or regiment where "We did exercises with the SAS all the
time"?

 >>He summarised, "RAF Bentwaters was a very hot area for many
 >>types of military training actions". [End]

 From this answer I take it this person was an Officer of some
kind who was privy to training details within such Elite Groups,
if indeed this was the case? Was this person an Officer or
serving Non Rank?

 >>Some facts, some conjecture and above all, hopefully something
 >>of value in this brief reassessment of two cases which remain,
 >>so far as we know, unrelated.

I await for more...

 >>When a 'UFO' case meets the world of 'special ops' and 'black
 >>projects', I'm reminded that someone once wisely pointed out to
 >>me, "the more you know, the more you realise you don't know".

 >If this is to be the case, would just some of these ' Special Ops &
 >Black Projects, be in the employment of H.M. Goverment?

If the answer is no, then who pays these guys to do what they
do,  I refer you to your first part:

 >Why he chooses to portray a different picture in more recent
 >times, particularly as it isn't too difficult to see the true
 >facts, is presumably a case of 'enthusiastic marketing'.

 >Roy..







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                         Re: Traces Of The Ancients

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:23:09 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:07:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 17:36:06 +1100
 >From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>So if they're here [ETs], then it's not because we have
 >>something they want, in any recognized sense.

 >I refer you to Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" to
 >see that they have been here in the past mining for gold and
 >other minerals. I do have disagreements with Zecharia Sitchin,
 >which you can see at the url given below, but I don't disagree
 >with him about what I wrote in the previous sentence.


Dear Bill and list,

I agree that Sitchin is a voice to be dealt with, and I'm
intrigued with some of his textual "evidence."  However, I think
the concept of using gold as an airborne radiation shield, as
described in 'The Twelth Planet', is absurd. Sitchin writes
about intelligent aliens in our solar system who are godlike in
many respects, but, curiously, rely on a lot of the same
short-term reasoning as earthly astronauts of the 60s--not to
mention a lot of the same general kind of hardware!

I think Sitchin and Temple ('The Sirius Mystery') have
demonstrated a legitimate historical anomaly.  But the bit about
mining gold and exporting it to Nebiru (a planet whose proposed
orbit would exclude intelligent life even if it did exist) is
one of Sitchin's weakest links.

Why go to the bother of heaving gold out of Earth's gravity well
when it's available more cheaply and abundantly off-planet?  Why
make use of grossly inefficient genetically engineered slaves
when _surely_ they could have built automatic bulldozers (or
dare I suggest self-replicating nanites) to accomplish the same
feat?

In short, the nitty gritty _details_ of Sitchin's theory fall
flat, at least for me.  He remains a competent scholar, but his
books betray a great deal of scientific naivete.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
m@C tonnieS
17905 E. 25th Terr.
Independence, MO 64057
816-373-6575
alintelbot@aol.com

Martian archaeology, memetic drift, science fiction,
transhumanism, SETI

"He runs after facts like a beginner learning to
skate, who, furthermore, practices somewhere
where it is forbidden."
--Franz Kafka
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_









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                              Re: Documentary?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:24:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:10:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Documentary?


 >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:02:20 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Sam Sherman <FLEXARET2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Documentary?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>>If this shows the Aug 7, 1997 Mexico City video of a "huge" UFO
 >>>passing behind buildings, then it was shown in the spring of
 >>>1998.

 >>>Subsequent investigation has shown that the Mexico City video
 >>>has "fingerprints of a hoax" and the Phoenix lights which were
 >>>south of Phoenix.

 >>>These cases have all been discussed on the net. I suggest going
 >>>to UFOMIND and looking up Mexico City and Phoenix.

 >>It's important to emphasize that these "fingerprints" of a hoax,
 >>in the Mexico City case, do not provide evidence of a hoax in
 >>the causative agent appears to be alien intelligence whose state
 >>of evolution could be thousands or even millions of years ahead
 >>of our own. If one wishes to assume it was a hoax, they must
 >>assume that:

 ><snip>

 >The Mexico City footage looks like a light object pulled by a
 >wire having little or no mass as we know it. The shape and its
 >rotation are somewhat compelling even so, as is the testimony of
 >the 2 witnesses on the show, while others were mentioned. What
 >is suspicious is the mysterious way the footage was first
 >delivered.

The "fingerprint" of a hoax is more serious than that. See the
attached comparison between vertically smeared and vertically
unsmeared images (smear based on study of horizontal edges of
the building image).

The UFO image was never smeared, even when the building image
was smeared, by vertical camera motion due to hand vibration.
(Horizontal smear of the UFO image was also undetectible.)

The difference in smear could mean (1)  that the UFO image was
"pasted" in frame by frame, or that the UFO managed to track the
vertical movement of the camera and move in exactly the same
way.

In the case of the images shown in the attachment, that would
mean (2) a real UFO moved vertically perhaps 10 feet in 1/30 sec
at exactly the same time that th hand vibration caused the
camera to move.

Choose 1 or 2. (I chose 1)






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                       Re: An End is a Beginning.....

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:36:19 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:13:56 -0500
Subject: Re: An End is a Beginning.....


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:48:42 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: An End is a Beginning.....
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >The end of the twentieth century was not an end, as all endings
 >are a beginning.  May our beginning be the genesis of
 >apperception by mankind that we are at the end time of our
 >planet.  Even if the comet does strike us, or the killer
 >asteroid from hell arrives, or the tenth planet passes us too
 >close for safety - perhaps the explosion in the center of our
 >galaxy will remove all life from this world.  There are many
 >ways in which the "end" may become reality, but even these are a
 >beginning.

Not to be morbid, but if the center of our galaxy explodes, it
_is_ probably the end--for us.  If you're implying that an
extinction event is means to a new beginning, then you're
right...but most certainly not a new _human_ beginning.  I might
be selfish, but I'd like to see the human race survive the next
thousand years and I think the only way it can is if it expands
through space.

As for killer asteroids, I think we need to commit outselves to
the construction of a "Space Guard" style system--not an easy
task, ethically or scientifically.  Carl Sagan describes the
issues involved with such a scheme in _Pale Blue Dot_, which I
recommend to anyone interested in our continued survival against
cosmic odds.

Mac Tonnies








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                                  Re: Corso

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:49:53 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:16:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Corso


 >Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 12:26:46 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Corso
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>Filing cabinet makes it sound as though he might have been given
 >>access to reports from the professionals who had been working on
 >>the wreckage elsewhere and did have the background for it.

 >>Stan Friedman

 >Yes, he says so in his book : he saw a report of alien autopsy!
 >Another big lie??

The details of the autopsy were the most interesting parts of
Corso's book, for me.  I was especially intrigued by the alleged
opinion that the "aliens" were in fact genetically engineered
robots good for little else beside space travel.  And the bit
about linking their nervous systems with their craft would be
very interesting, if demonstrated to be true (witness the
increasingly user-friendly pilot interfaces on our own
aircraft).

Something similar was implied by the "alien autopsy" program's
six-digited "control panels"... I have to wonder if the
parallels have a common source, even if it's completely bogus.

Also, one of the men present at Wright Patterson confided to
Whitley Strieber (see _Breakthrough_) that it was the general
opinion among those in the know that the recovered bodies were
"fakes"--but not _our_ fakes (i.e. not crash dummies).  The
implication is that the back engineering team had a hunch they
were dealing with biological robots from a very early stage;
this seems to jibe with Corso's recollections.

Please bear in mind I don't personally endorse any of this.  Just
some observations.

--Mac Tonnies







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               TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'

From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:29:26 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:21:14 -0500
Subject: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'


I was very disappointed on seeing the brief mention on the
program 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' on TLC (The
Learning channel) of the Edward's AFB UFO story.

No wonder the public has very little or no information on a
subject like this when it is given about 2 or 3 minutes of
coverage.

The program gave more coverage to skeptics such as Joe Nickel
making it sound as if people who experience a situation such as
this are crazy or even worse.

Another program that can be thrown in the trash can as soon as
possible.

Let's get some serious information out to the general public on
such matters and not quick information as quick as a blink of
an eye...

Best wishes,

Chris Kelly






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                    Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:30:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:24:21 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:42:44 -0500
 >From: John Tenney <jelt2000@email.msn.com>
 >Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:25:24 +0000
 >>From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
 >>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>A CENTURY OF UFOs
 >>    1953 - Lt. Felix Moncla's F-86 Sabre jet is
 >>captured by a UFO over .Lake Superior, hauled
 >>aboard by a tractor beam.  Lt. Moncla is still MIA.

 >Actually, not to be to "nit-picky" but Lt. Moncla's plane was an
 >F-89C Northrop Scorpion, and lets not forget that also on board
 >was radar operator Lt. Robert Wilson. Even though I agree with
 >the significance of this case the information available on
 >whether or not the plane was "hauled aboard by a tractor beam"
 >is tiny to say the least. It is much more probable that the F-89
 >crashed into Lake Superior, alas the evidence for this is almost
 >as small as the evidence for the UFO scenario, almost.

 >John E.L. Tenney
 >http://fly.to/main
 >Michigan Anomalous Information Network


Dear Mr. Tenney,

I thought Major Keyhoe had discovered that the jet had indeed
"merged" with the unidentified blip on the radar screen (but
you're right... no tractor beam) after speaking with some of the
personnel at the tracking station.

What evidence (if any) is there that the plane ditched in Lake
Superior?

Were you there?

Just thought I'd ask.


Michel M. Deschamps
UFO Eyewitness/Researcher/Historian









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:42:57 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:27:36 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:29:30 -0500 (EST)
 >From: RGates8254@aol.com
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:08:33 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Dear Colleagues,

 >>I wonder can you be  of assistance. I am researching a new book
 >>on the alien autopsy film and I am looking for professional
 >>commentary from surgeons, pathologists, film experts, special
 >>effects experts, etc, etc. If you have any such material I would
 >>greatly appreciate it if you could share it with me.

 >>I am also looking for 'positional statements' from ufologists,
 >>what they believe is the nature and origin of the film and how
 >>have they reached such a conclusion.

 >>If you can help with any of the above please contact me direct
 >>at: pmquest@dial.pipex.com.

 >Hi Phil,

 >I was under the impression that the AA film was/has turned out
 >to be yet and again another broken turd on the Ufological dung
 >heap.. that has consisted of such notables as
 >Yellowbook/Redbook/mass landings, alien motherships coming with
 >Hale Bopp and other such stupidity.
 >Dear Robert,

The only section of the film actually proven to me a fraud is
the 'tent footage'. This was exposed by myself and my colleague
Tim Matthews last year and the hoaxers have gone on the record
although they do have a few versions of what actually
transpired, but they all agree that they faked it.

 >The bottom line is, and probably always will be, no matter what
 >story is told, when is Santilli going to release 1 (ONE) single
 >frame of the film, so that it can be authenticated by Kodak?
 >For many its always appeared to be another gimmick to get money
 >out of peoples pockets and put them in another.

I agree with you entirely. As always I continue to urge Santilli
to do this. Should he ever do so then I hope he will release it
to me. Until such a time  we have to investigate the film by
whatever other means are available to us.

 >Perhaps in the same book you could devote 5 or 6 chapters of
 >position statements and learned commentary on the infamous
 >Hitler diarys, with an afterword on the Piltdown man? :)

I am convinced that sooner or later the facts of this film will
be known. This chapter will then prove even more interesting to
look back on to see who, if anyone, was right and who was wrong.
The chapter is progressing very well and it has proved to be a
most interesting slice of UFO thinking on this film which I feel
is fully justified for such a book.

Regards,

Philip.







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               Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 02:57:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:30:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus


 >>Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:51:13 -0500
 >>From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:56:05 -0300
 >From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar>
 >Subject: Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >This transparent quality of object is something I witnessed
 >personally in 1987, using binoculars. Also, I have got similar
 >descriptions of "transparent" sightings in Papua New Guinea,
 >where I worked few years ago. It is curious...

 >>Hi, Carlos!

 >>There are many possible explanations for a semi-transparent
 >>appearance to an airborne object:

 >>1) Low visibility paint - see US Navy aircraft paint schemes -
 >>or other sky-similar coloration

 >>2) Luminous emissions from the near surface area of the object,
 >>with a color similar to the sky.

 >>3) High reflectivity.

 >>4) (1), (2) or (3) combined with haze.

 >>As long as an object does not pass in front of any object in the
 >>sky there is no way to determine transparency. In the case of
 >>(3) or (4) even apparent passage in front of a cloud or other
 >>object may not be suifficient, unless the field of view from the
 >>object toward the observer differs substantially and
 >>distinguishably from that behind - and even in that case, there
 >>can well be a number of unusual perceptual factors at work which
 >>might still convey the impression of transparency.

 >>Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at

Hi,

Failing all of the above, Carlos, then you may have witnessed a
Transparent UFO in the sky! It does happen..... sometimes.....
just sometimes.....


Roy..







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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:02:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:32:53 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:08:00 +1100
 >From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I also add the fact that the Pleiades are too young to support
 >>anything like life yet.

 >>Bill Alford


Hi Bill,

Could you please publish how you come to this fact, or point me
to a site where your research into the Pleiades System is?

Regards,

Roy..









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               Canadian Researcher Chronicles A Century Of UFO

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:57:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:57:56 -0500
Subject: Canadian Researcher Chronicles A Century Of UFO



From: Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto


Source: Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/canadaufos_u.htm

Canadian Researcher Chronicles A Century Of UFO Reports

1-3-00


WINNIPEG (CP) -- Explorer David Thompson got the ball rolling
with Canada's first recorded UFO sighting in 1792, a tale lifted
from his Hudson Bay journals that would do very nicely as an
episode of The X-Files.

"He and a companion were camped out in the middle of the winter
in a very isolated area near a lake and they saw what he
described as a large gelatinous blob ... flying through the
air," says Chris Rutkowski, a Winnipeg UFO researcher and
author. "It appeared to fall to the earth on the frozen lake not
far from them." The sighting took place near what is now Thicket
Portage, just south of Thompson, Man., which isn't named after
the famous fur trader and map maker. (It's named after former
Inco president John Thompson, who paid the guys who built the
town.)

At any rate, David Thompson and his companion failed to find any
sign of the blob on the ground, but they did see a similar
object in the sky a few days later.

Ever since, Canadians have continued to see strange objects or
lights in the sky and report other contact with what many insist
are visiting aliens.

Rutkowski has been chronicling and investigating these stories
for almost 25 years and he has culled what he considers to be 11
of the strangest tales of the last 100 years from his files.
"Whether or not they are real is irrelevant," says the founder
of Ufology Research of Manitoba, whose latest book on the
subject, Abductions and Aliens, has just been published by
Dundurn in Toronto. "They have each fired the Canadian
imagination and fascination with the possibility of life
elsewhere in the universe."

Rutkowski's weird and wonderful list starts with a 1915 phantom
invasion of aerial objects over wartime Ottawa that was never
explained.

It was scary enough for officials to turn out the lights on
Parliament Hill to avoid presenting a tempting target to the
"enemy." "It caused such a concern that they actually did put
Ottawa on alert."

The list concludes in Duncan, B.C., in 1980 with the strange
tale of Granger Taylor. The teenager was obsessed with aliens
and UFOs, building a full-size mockup of a flying saucer in his
backyard. One day he announced to his friends he was going to be
taken away by aliens. He was never seen again.

But those aren't the strangest stories as far as Rutkowski is
concerned.

"Out of all of them it would be a toss-up between Shirley's Bay
and Shag Harbour."

Shirley's Bay, Ont., is where Wilbert Smith, a Canadian Defence
Department engineer, set up equipment in 1954 he said detected a
large magnetic disturbance which he believed to be from an alien
spacecraft.

More important perhaps for UFO researchers, it was from Smith's
meetings with American investigators at the time that they
learned of incidents like the alleged crash of a flying saucer
near Roswell, N.M.

Shag Harbour, N.S., is where something crashed into the ocean in
October 1967 that had people in the area gossiping for years.

American navy vessels appeared, divers recovered something and
mysterious green foam was seen on the water, but there was never
a satisfactory explanation. "I would classify those as the most
unusual among all the 11," says Rutkowski.

If those are the strangest, he says the most significant is the
case of Steve Mihalak, burned by an object he said landed near
Falcon Lake, Man., in May 1967, the same year as the strange
goings-on near Shag Harbour. "It was investigated by American
and Canadian military and government officials and it stood the
test of time," says Rutkowski.

Mihalak died last October. "Right to the very end he insisted
that what he had seen and what occurred to him happened just as
he said."

Rutkowski says there has been a slight decline in the number of
UFO sightings in Canada, to about 200 a year. He had been
expecting a little "millennium fever" that might push up the
number of sightings as 1999 draws to a close.

But while the numbers may be down, interest is definitely up, he
says.

"People are very much into this sort of thing."









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                              Re: Documentary?

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 10:53:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 02:50:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Documentary?


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:24:03 -0500
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Documentary?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:02:20 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Sam Sherman <FLEXARET2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Documentary?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>If this shows the Aug 7, 1997 Mexico City video of a "huge" UFO
 >>>>passing behind buildings, then it was shown in the spring of
 >>>>1998.

 >>>>Subsequent investigation has shown that the Mexico City video
 >>>>has "fingerprints of a hoax" and the Phoenix lights which were
 >>>>south of Phoenix.

 >>>>These cases have all been discussed on the net. I suggest going
 >>>>to UFOMIND and looking up Mexico City and Phoenix.

 >>>It's important to emphasize that these "fingerprints" of a hoax,
 >>>in the Mexico City case, do not provide evidence of a hoax in
 >>>the causative agent appears to be alien intelligence whose state
 >>>of evolution could be thousands or even millions of years ahead
 >>>of our own. If one wishes to assume it was a hoax, they must
 >>>assume that:

 >><snip>

 >>The Mexico City footage looks like a light object pulled by a
 >>wire having little or no mass as we know it. The shape and its
 >>rotation are somewhat compelling even so, as is the testimony of
 >>the 2 witnesses on the show, while others were mentioned. What
 >>is suspicious is the mysterious way the footage was first
 >>delivered.

 >The "fingerprint" of a hoax is more serious than that. See the
 >attached comparison between vertically smeared and vertically
 >unsmeared images (smear based on study of horizontal edges of
 >the building image).

 >The UFO image was never smeared, even when the building image
 >was smeared, by vertical camera motion due to hand vibration.
 >(Horizontal smear of the UFO image was also undetectible.)

 >The difference in smear could mean (1)  that the UFO image was
 >"pasted" in frame by frame, or that the UFO managed to track the
 >vertical movement of the camera and move in exactly the same
 >way.

 >In the case of the images shown in the attachment, that would
 >mean (2) a real UFO moved vertically perhaps 10 feet in 1/30 sec
 >at exactly the same time that th hand vibration caused the
 >camera to move.

 >Choose 1 or 2. (I chose 1)

Yes, of course, Bruce, as that is your position on this.
However, by so doing, you neglect both the huge advances in
technology and psychics that thousands of years of continued
evolution could bring to a civilization, and the testimony of
sincere witness(es) who had not yet seen or heard of the video.
How is there any science in neglecting the witnesses, or in
neglecting the plausibility of future evolution?

We all know of the tremendous rate of advance of science in our
own society in the past century. It's entirely nearsighted to
think that unimaginably greater advances will not occur given
another 100 centuries, if we survive as a civilization, or
egocentric to think that unimaginably greater advances have not
already been made by aliens thousands or millions of years in
advance of us, who could easily have a way of effecting (2).

Don't forget that thumping sound that attracted Ed Walters'
attention to the flickering black spot on the window of his
office during his UFO sighting and photographing on 6 Aug 1993,
which black spot disappeared just before the UFO disappeared.
Those aliens can do a lot, remotely. They're a lot more than
just a century or two ahead of us!

   Jim Deardorff






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                            Jimmy Guieu 1926-2000

From: Bruno Mancusi <Bruno.Mancusi@com.mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:40:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:01:10 -0500
Subject: Jimmy Guieu 1926-2000


Ufologist, lecturer and sci-fi author Jimmy Guieu passed away on
2 January. He was a pioneer of French ufology, founding member
(with Marc Thirouin) of the Groupe d'Etudes Ouranos in 1952. He
was very pro-ETH and helped the diffusion of US conspirationist
theories (MJ-12, Lear, Cooper) in Europe.

He wrote:

- 4 books on UFOs: 'Les soucoupes volantes viennent d'un autre
   monde' (1954, translated in 1956 as 'Flying Saucers Come From
   Another World'), 'Black-out sur les soucoupes volantes' (1956),
   'Contacts OVNI a Cergy-Pontoise' (1980), 'Le monde etrange des
   contactes' (1986, updated in 1992 as 'Nos "maitres" les
   extraterrestres').

- 1 book on parapsychology: 'Le livre du paranormal' (1973).

- About 130 SF books where he used often UFO themes (MIB,
   cover-up and really existing ufologists).

In February 1995, some fans founded the organization Les Amis de
Jimmy Guieu (the friends of) which had a web site:

http://members.aol.com/ladjg/ but the link is no more active.

Bruno Mancusi







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                    Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 17:23:22 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:06:18 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'


 >Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 22:53:17 +0000
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:26:47 EST
 >>Subject: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net

 >>To the List

 >>Something new just happened again in the French media, The
 >>influential French daily newspaper "Liberation" published a four
 >>pages report on ufos, in its issue dated 25 and 26 december
 >>1999. Its main features are :

<snip>

 >Hi Gildas

 >Any chance of translating the articles and posting it here, or
 >emailing it to me please?


It would be too long to tranlate two full pages, but I will do
my best to tranlate at least significant parts, giving the
general tone of them.

Gildas








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                              Re: Documentary?

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:07:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:09:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Documentary?


 >Re: Documentary?

 >From: Bruce Maccabee
 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:24:03 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 12:10:54 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Documentary?

Previously, Bruce wrote:

 >The "fingerprint" of a hoax is more serious than that. See the
 >attached comparison between vertically smeared and vertically
 >unsmeared images (smear based on study of horizontal edges of
 >the building image).

 >The UFO image was never smeared, even when the building image
 >was smeared, by vertical camera motion due to hand vibration.
 >(Horizontal smear of the UFO image was also undetectible.)

 >The difference in smear could mean (1)  that the UFO image was
 >"pasted" in frame by frame, or that the UFO managed to track the
 >vertical movement of the camera and move in exactly the same
 >way.

Hi, Bruce!

Happy New Year, blah blah blah...

I agree with your observations about the Mexico City video.
However, it should be noted that there is basic "tracking"
software available for

non-linear computer based edit systems that would eliminate the
need to "paste" in the UFO, frame by frame. In fact,  it's as
easy as tracking the overall motion of the hand held shot then
"inverting" the program so that the UFO moves along with the
shot. It really is pretty cheap and easy to do. These sorts of
effects are called "DVE" moves in the world of video editing and
have been around for quite a while.

Because the move is created by shifting the image across the pixel bed,
the object being moved lacks the natural blur that would be associated
with something actually shot with a hand held camera. It might look
good to the naked eye. However, frame by frame study will usually
show the edge and other features of the UFO to be sharper than they
should be in comparison with the worked around them.

Later,
Roger Evans







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                         Re: Traces Of The Ancients

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:13:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:15:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:23:09 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >I think Sitchin and Temple ('The Sirius Mystery') have
 >demonstrated a legitimate historical anomaly.  But the bit about
 >mining gold and exporting it to Nebiru (a planet whose proposed
 >orbit would exclude intelligent life even if it did exist) is
 >one of Sitchin's weakest links.

 >Why go to the bother of heaving gold out of Earth's gravity well
 >when it's available more cheaply and abundantly off-planet?  Why
 >make use of grossly inefficient genetically engineered slaves
 >when _surely_ they could have built automatic bulldozers (or
 >dare I suggest self-replicating nanites) to accomplish the same
 >feat?

 >In short, the nitty gritty _details_ of Sitchin's theory fall
 >flat, at least for me.  He remains a competent scholar, but his
 >books betray a great deal of scientific naivete.


Mac..

You assume very much.  First, we are talking about the earth
more than 250,000 years ago, not last decade.

Second, if Nibru does exist, it's elongated orbit around our
Sun, would take it deep into the reaches of the darkness of
space, and far from the warming rays of the Sun.

The size of the planet, is such that the gravitatial laws we
apply to Earth, may not apply there.

However, to take fine gold flakes and more or less orbit them in
the very upper reaches of the planets atmosphere, forming rings
of gold dust, would cause them to act as:  A.  Insulators, B.
Amplifiers... all for Solar Energy as well as communications.

What better way to attempt to assure that the planet, which had
been captured by the Sun, which crossed the orbital plane of the
rest of the Solar System, thus assuring near collisions or
colllisions with one or more of those planets at some point in
time, would be heated and maintain life for it's inhabitatnts.

Just look to the ringed planets to see how that gold could be
strewn above the planet.

IF the Sumerian Tablets are true stories, not just fables, then
those "Space Travelers" who established "earth base 1" would
know much more about interplanetary travel than we. They would
also be aware of a far more advanced knowledge of The Laws of
Physics which Govern the Universe than We.

If they did indeed create "genetic clones" or "earth life forms"
based on Their DNA and the DNA of the highest form of Anthropoid
life on Earth, then I would suggest they understood much more
about the DNA Chain and its construction than WE do.

So, If the Story is true, then any arugement you or I make is
purely conjecture, and when we drift to far into that area, we
strictly show our ignorance.

We also promote our Ego, and tend to talk down to everyone else.
In essence, by being so adament in our opinions, we are talking
down to those who may well have been responsible for our being
here.

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---







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             Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'

From: Sam Sherman <FLEXARET2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:31:31 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:26:14 -0500
Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:29:26 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >Subject: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >I was very disappointed on seeing the brief mention on the
 >program 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' on TLC (The
 >Learning channel) of the Edward's AFB UFO story.

 >No wonder the public has very little or no information on a
 >subject like this when it is given about 2 or 3 minutes of
 >coverage.

<snip>

 >Let's get some serious information out to the general public on
 >such matters and not quick information as quick as a blink of
 >an eye...


Chris,

I have told the story of the UFO Alert at Edwards Air Force Base
of 7Oct65 all over the place in media, including (most
recently)-

RADIO:      'Strange Days...Indeed' (Errol Bruce-Knapp)
             'Art Bell/Dreamland' (Whitley Streiber)
             'Sightings' (Jeff Rense)

TELEVISION: Sightings - in a major segment and a preview segment.
             SCI/FI CHANNEL - Roswell 50th Anniversary show...
             and more.

Many UFO Magazines - and you can see the website:

http://www.edwardsufo.com

Or buy the tape itself, which tells much of the story.

This subject, as I have researched it, has not been censored.

- Sam Sherman







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                    Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36

From: John Tenney <jelt2000@email.msn.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:47:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:30:35 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:30:09 -0500
 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 16:42:44 -0500
 >>From: John Tenney <jelt2000@email.msn.com>
 >>Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 4, Number 36
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Actually, not to be to "nit-picky" but Lt. Moncla's plane was an
 >>F-89C Northrop Scorpion, and lets not forget that also on board
 >>was radar operator Lt. Robert Wilson. Even though I agree with
 >>the significance of this case the information available on
 >>whether or not the plane was "hauled aboard by a tractor beam"
 >>is tiny to say the least. It is much more probable that the F-89
 >>crashed into Lake Superior, alas the evidence for this is almost
 >>as small as the evidence for the UFO scenario, almost.

 >>John E.L. Tenney
 >>http://fly.to/main
 >>Michigan Anomalous Information Network


 >Dear Mr. Tenney,

 >I thought Major Keyhoe had discovered that the jet had indeed
 >"merged" with the unidentified blip on the radar screen (but
 >you're right... no tractor beam) after speaking with some of the
 >personnel at the tracking station.

Yes, it is true that the Ground Control Stations at both Kinross
AFB, (Michigan) and Truax AFB, (Wisconsin) watched as the Lt.
Moncla's radar return merged with the "unknown" and subsequently
both radar returns disappeared.

 >What evidence (if any) is there that the plane ditched in Lake
 >Superior?

 >Just thought I'd ask.


 >Michel M. Deschamps
 >UFO Eyewitness/Researcher/Historian


Although no wreckage or signs of a crash were ever located, the
pilots from Kinross AFB who were scrambled within minutes of Lt.
Moncla's disappearance to locate his whereabouts had to return
very quickly due to rapidly increasing snow and cloud cover.

Also the F-89C, (as an Air Force interceptor) had major problems
with it's design and was constantly being updated and
redesigned.

One of the biggest problems was the retractable inlet screens
over the engines. The engines on the F-89C were located
underneath the cockpit and were close to the ground, sometimes
the force of the engine would suck up rocks and debris from the
ground and (when the jet was flying) if the pilot retracted the
screens the debris would fly into the engine.

Some F-89C's had non-retractable inlet screens but this became
hazardous when flying in icing conditions because the screens
would ice up and cut down on the air into the engine. Another
big problem was the fact that at accelerated dives the wings on
an F-89C would have a tendency to twist and cause the plane to
crash, this happened at an Air Show in Detroit in 1952.

Beyond these factors the testimony of the officers at Kinross on
the night Lt. Moncla & Lt. Wilson's plane vanished, (I have
interviewed them myself) show that they believe, (as one pilot
that was there that night told me), "He went into the drink".

There is no doubt that something happened there that night, and
that the government did a shoddy job of investigation and
probably some lying, (to cover up their own incompetence) but
the real tragedy is that the families on both Moncla and Wilson
to this day have never been given satisfactory answers to their
questions.


John E.L. Tenney
http://fly.to/main
Michigan Anomalous Information Network










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                  Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:43:16 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:56:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:52:41 EST
 >Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:53:53 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

<snip>

 >Robert Loftin, affiliated with NICAP, wrote in his 1968 book
 >"Identified Flying Saucers," p. 21:

 >"Vast, material evidence was obtained from a ranch, near
 >Roswell, New Mexico, where a flying saucer crashed and burned.
 >The Air Force cordoned off the area until the evidence could
 >be removed.  Newsmen were not allowed at the scene, but
 >received a 'typical explanation' of th incident by the Air
 >Force, a week later.  The Air Force, according to IIOUFO,
 >released a picture of a soldier holding a box kit with an
 >aluminum pie pan tied to it.

<snip>

 >Loftin didn't get a lot of the details right, but he certainly
 >did use the word "crash" in reference to Roswell.

David, List:

Thanks for the various citations. Loftin seems to have just
expanded "vastly" on the Edwards' best-seller two years before.
Edwards did use "crash".

Clear skies,
Bob Young








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                            Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 07:59:23 -0500
Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?


Hi all,

Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
Superstorm?

Cheers Sharon








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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 09:06:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:22:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi all,

 >Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >Superstorm?

 >Cheers Sharon

With little or no fanfare (I don't frequent the Art Bell show or
his web site that much) this publication appeared at our local
Borders Books, and I read the dust jacket.  Interesting, but I
didn't buy it.

If anyone finds any major revelations in it, please advise those
of us who were foolish enough to pass it up.  However, I suspect
that I'd find little in the way of new material.

BTW, I suspect this really wasn't aimed at the UFO genre but the
(gasp!) general public.  I would also mention that Strieber is
working with a publisher to put out a series of books related to
the research into UFOs, but there was no indication that this
book was a part of that forthcoming series.

Steve







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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:41:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 11:25:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


Hello all, Sharon,

 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Hi all,

 >Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >Superstorm?

 >Cheers Sharon


Haven't read it but l'll bet it contirbutes to Global Warming
just by all the hot air generated by the authors. Methane too.
Organic fertilizer. Meadow Muffins. I'd better quit.

GT McCoy







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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:45:12 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 18:39:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:03:04 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi All,

 >Just going over  a very well known case " 9th November 1979, Bob
 >Taylor,  the town of Livingston near Edinburgh, Scotland".

 >Are there any of the original researchers who investigated this
 >case on this list?

 >Were there any leanings toward a Military connection?

 >Roy..


Hi,

I was not directly involved in this case, but did coordinate the
UFOIN investigation at the time and have met some of those
involved. It is an impressive case and remains unsolved.

I don't recall anything that connected it with the military. But
it was the first time that police in the UK (possibly anywhere)
treated a UFO case as a personal assault and launched a proper
scene of crimes investigation. They were left as baffled as we
were about what actually occurred.

Steuart Campbell reckons it was a mirage of mercury or some such
planet. I think that's a bit unlikely!

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles







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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:50:17 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:03:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:41:16 -0800
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Hello all, Sharon,

 >>Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >>From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >>Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Hi all,

 >>Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >>I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >>co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >>Superstorm?

 >>Cheers Sharon


 >Haven't read it but l'll bet it contirbutes to Global Warming
 >just by all the hot air generated by the authors. Methane too.
 >Organic fertilizer. Meadow Muffins. I'd better quit.

 >GT McCoy


I have read the book and I enjoyed it. If you want to read some
detailed reviews, go to Amazon.com and read the reviews by
readers. Both sides, pro and con, are represented.

Also, readers wrote to the globalsuperstorm.com website which
posted their comments on the website. Once again, both sides,
pro and con, are represented.

BTW, the authors stress that global warming occuring right now
is a natural, cyclical event. The part that humans play in this
hasn't been proven yet. Possibly, they argue, we may have helped
speed the process up a bit.

The book is beautifully written, thanks to some of Strieber's
fiction experience. He writes about what the superstorm would
feel like to different cities around the world. Obviously, the
is the fiction part of the book.

Joe in Tampa






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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: David N Kirby <davkirby@lucent.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:20:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:04:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


[Non-Subscriber Post]

 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi all,

 >Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >Superstorm?

<snip>

Hello,

In response to a subscriber's question about the Bell/Streiber
book, I am forwarding a copy of an email I sent to Whitley after
reading some of the blather on his website about the ostensibly
narcoleptic press and the impending disinterest in his new book.

I thought I'd offer a perspective on Whitley that readers may
find appropriate.

--------------------------

From: Kirby, David N (David)** CTR **
Sent: Monday, December 27, 1999 7:20 PM
To: 'whitley@strieber.com'
Subject:        Hello



Hello, Whitley.

I doubt you'd remember me, but I was in attendence at your
Colorado MUFON appearence a few years ago (on a very, very cold
January day) in Denver, and asked a question about your
reference to the press as 'idiots' and, being freelance press
myself, expressing some umbridge at your flip and marginally
irresponsible remarks. I still do write, btw, although for a new
paper that isn't much interested in ufo related stories. I like
to follow current UFO issues online, even if I no longer write
about them.

Unsolicited, I am remarking on some of your quotations regarding
"The Problem With The Press"

"Next week, the book I have written with Art Bell, The Coming
Global Superstorm, will be published, and I am about to suffer
from the same press torments that have dogged me since I
published Communion. I am routinely punished for writing that
book, either by false and unfair reviews, or by being ignored.
Despite the fact that Communion is a book of questions, it is
taken to be a claim of alien contact, and I am viewed as a
proponent of something akin to a false religious belief. I am
hurt as much as possible short of legal limits in order to limit
my impact and, in the best of all possible worlds, destroy me. "

Whitley, I am quite perplexed at this persecution complex you
seem to have regarding reviews and attention by the media.

First, what is a 'false' review, exactly? Someone thinks your
book stinks.

Who says he's wrong? You?

Second, why is 'being ignored' somehow a press torment.
Thousands of writers and their work are routinely ignored by
press and critical publications, why is your fate a function of
calculated torment? Give us a break, Whitley. Perhaps the only
common consensus that you're not nearly as important a writer as
you think you are. Here's a suggestion: Try going back to
straight-out fiction -- that's what you're best at, and I think
you know that.

Third, look, either you are or are not a proponent of alien
contact...either in the first or third person. You tend to play
one on TV (I saw your 'powerful' special on TV and especially
enjoyed your 'concerned counselor' posture interviewing your
tormented abductee subject.), but disavow whenever cornered on
the subject and prodded to offer anything more than furrowed
brow opinions. Seems to me, your alleged negative (or missing)
press coverage didn't hurt the production and airing of a two
hour, primetime TV special.  Some torment. All us frustrated
writers should be likewise so tormented.

Of course, if you said directly you did not believe alien
contact was a true and objective phenomenon, would they have
given you a special at all? I think I anwered my own
question....

That there has been an organized effort to discredit me seems
probable.

Holy smokes, Whitley, do you really believe this? Do you really
think editors are in cahoots with MIB to ignore your books? You
got 2 blessed hours on NBC, explain that as part of your
'organized effort'.

Whitley, I must admit, I was interested in your work and your
approach to this subject, until the fiasco with the alleged Hale
Bopp companion and your steadfast refusal to admit you were
taken in by hoaxed photographs, your ceaseless polemics about
conspiracy to withhold Hubble images of the (nonexistent)
companion going unrecanted, and your fervent and unmistaken hope
that everyone would simply forget your advocacy of such a stupid
and parochial hoax afterwards. (Heard from Courtney Brown
lately?) I do believe now, as I was convinced then, your
'reputation' is far more important to you than the unmasking of
any clandestine truth. I, by the way, am not affiliated with any
group out to destroy you. I just think you make it up as you go
along. You destroyed your own credibility with me, Whitley...not
the NY Times, Newsweek, Brokaw, et al. You did it just fine on
your own.

Why does the press lie about UFOs? Or, more to the point, why
are so many otherwise intelligent people so ferociously
protective of their ignorance that they will not even examine
the facts, let alone report on them.

You seem to think that non-advocacy of UFO-related conspiracy
theories represents lies or complicity in the cover-up. Seems to
me that researchers and investigators have the obligation to
produce these facts. They, at least, are trying. I count you as
a 'personality', Whitley, I haven't seen a ton of
dirt-under-the-fingernails investigatory work from you, at least
not alone the same caliber as Stan Friedman, Tim Good or Kevin
Randle. You have a website, and all we get is whining about your
'torment'. Give us the facts, Whitley, not more whining. Print a
black-and-white, verifiable 'lie' pushed by the press,
substantiated fully by public documentation, and I'll happily
retract this complaint.

Because of that article, thousands of people were led away from
Breakthrough, never to see the provocative nature of its
contents, or-more importantly-to realize the importance of its
implications for their lives, their freedom and the future of
mankind.

Wow...sounds pretty heavy. Most writers like to believe they
bring such import to humanity... Give us a break... write a good
book and people will buy it. Simple as that. ('Let's blame Time
Magazine...' hehe... do your fans actually believe this
nonsense? I cannot believe you do.)

But so far no reporter of any stature has even bothered to
question NASA about the video, so the issue remains moot.

Question them youself, Whitley...get someone from NASA onto your
guest spot on Art's show. Settle the damn thing and move on! Who
needs Dan Rather? Look, a very plausible explanation was offered
to account for the moving objects in that video.Can anyone prove
it? Of course not. Being unprovable doesn't make it
extraterrestrial.

Frankly, I think Tim Edward's (original) video was far more
interesting, better analyzed and more worthy of study than a
smudgy shuttle window. And, btw, I don't know what nonsense you
brought along to that MUFON meeting, but that bizzare time-lapse
thing that Edwards shot looked an awful lot like a big bug that
flew by the camera lens. You seemed to think at the time it was
'very, very important' and you haven't mentioned it since. Like
I said, sure seems like you're making it up as you go along.

And, let's say 1) NASA knows it's ET---think they'll tell a
reporter? I don't. or 2) they don't know and say so to a
reporter - does the reporter then become part of the consiracy?
or 3) they are certain it's water droplets or something on the
window and tell the reporter...at what point can you simply
accept the question being asked and the answer being lamentably
prosaic, without lapsing into conspiracy theories?

BTW, I have seen the NOAA pictures as well... man, it sure looks
like a waxing gibbous moon to me, with the partial face and
everything. Do you honestly believe a conspiracy powerful enough
to squelch interest in your writing nationwide, year after year,
would have let these images slip by if they were NOT pictures of
the moon?

C'mon, Whitley, can't we do better than this?

Well, I could go on... I'm curious, what did you ever do about
that guy that called you out on the UFO UpDates Mailing List,
the lie detector stuff and so forth. It seems to me, if you're
willing to stand up for yourself, your statements and your
beliefs about this phenomenon, responding affirmatively to this
guy's challenge and passing his silly tests would go a long way
to generating some good PR and some good will amongst your
agnostics in the UFO community. Might even sell some books. (You
CAN pass the tests, right?) Won't change my mind much either
way, but I think your fans and some others could use a dose of
Whitley fighting back, instead of just complaining, like on this
webpage.

BTW, it might be that your book will generate little interest
because it's a book about weather from a talk show host and a
ufo writer. Why, in heaven's good name, should anyone regard
either of you as experts on global climate change or extreme
meteorological phenomenon? Sorry for asking, but before you
start calling us all nefarious agents of disinformation and
footsoldiers of the shadow government (to say nothing of
'idiots'), give us one good reason why we should believe you
two.

I'm not trying to be nasty, but I do have a problem with someone
who complains that the facts are ignored and then doesn't offer
any, who writes essentially the same book three (four?) times
and then complains that the last one's lukewarm reception is
everyone else's fault, who never, ever admits he's wrong (even
when he is, and everyone is once in a while, Whitley), and has
done little to further the real investigation needed to get to
the bottom of these phenomena. Rhetoric only goes so far,
Whitley. After a while, it's noise for entertainment's sake, and
forgive us who don't find it very entertaining anymore. Call me
an idiot, but I think you're ready for your close-up and not
much else.

I hope you get another TV special for your new book, with lots
of spiffy graphics and dire predictions and gloomy, bass-heavy
soundtrack music. Work in a UFO angle, that'll help your earlier
books sell. If you don't get one, however, I have no doubt
you'll find someone to blame for it.

Happy New Year

Dave Kirby


I'll not expect a reply...you have established a reputation as
someone who likes to respond to his critics globally, so as to
control your forum, your topicture and to rely on strawman-ism
whenever cornered by something uncomfortable. Besides, being
someone who is woefully underequipped to alter your book sales,
I'd be shocked if you even read this whole thing. But if you
did, thanks.















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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:03:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:47:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:41:16 -0800
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hello all, Sharon,

 >>Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >>From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >>Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hi all,

 >>Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >>I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >>co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >>Superstorm?

 >>Cheers Sharon

 >Haven't read it but l'll bet it contirbutes to Global Warming
 >just by all the hot air generated by the authors. Methane too.
 >Organic fertilizer. Meadow Muffins. I'd better quit.

 >GT McCoy

Hello Sharon and GT:

Bell's books have been reviewed in various places. The one
review I read was scathing. I don't recall the reviewer.

A simple web search using "Art Bell" + "Book review" should tell
you all you need to know.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                         Re: Traces Of The Ancients

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:55:17 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:55:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:13:23 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:23:09 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>I think Sitchin and Temple ('The Sirius Mystery') have
 >>demonstrated a legitimate historical anomaly.  But the bit about
 >>mining gold and exporting it to Nebiru (a planet whose proposed
 >>orbit would exclude intelligent life even if it did exist) is
 >>one of Sitchin's weakest links.

 >>Why go to the bother of heaving gold out of Earth's gravity well
 >>when it's available more cheaply and abundantly off-planet?  Why
 >>make use of grossly inefficient genetically engineered slaves
 >>when _surely_ they could have built automatic bulldozers (or
 >>dare I suggest self-replicating nanites) to accomplish the same
 >>feat?

 >>In short, the nitty gritty _details_ of Sitchin's theory fall
 >>flat, at least for me.  He remains a competent scholar, but his
 >>books betray a great deal of scientific naivete.

 >Mac..

 >You assume very much.  First, we are talking about the earth
 >more than 250,000 years ago, not last decade.

Sorry, Mike: _you're_ the one assuming a great deal here, not
me!  And we're not really talking about the Earth a quarter
million years ago; we're discussing the possible existence of an
undiscovered technological civilization.  Let's not confuse the
issue.

 >Second, if Nibru does exist, it's elongated orbit around our
 >Sun, would take it deep into the reaches of the darkness of
 >space, and far from the warming rays of the Sun.

 >The size of the planet, is such that the gravitatial laws we
 >apply to Earth, may not apply there.

The laws of physics remain the same regardless of where one is
in the universe.  Sitchin's "12th Planet" is described as being
large, inhabited by creatures just like us.  So this proposed
planet would have to be quite Earthlike.  Unfortunately for
Sitchin and fans, the "12 Planet's" orbit renders the
possibility of it being even remotely Earthlike (let alone
inhabitable) impossible.  It seems that by trying to defend
Sitchin's theories, you're in fact contradicting them.

 >However, to take fine gold flakes and more or less orbit them in
 >the very upper reaches of the planets atmosphere, forming rings
 >of gold dust, would cause them to act as:  A.  Insulators, B.
 >Amplifiers... all for Solar Energy as well as communications.

This scheme would do no perceivable good to a planet of the type
Sitchin has described.  And there are much better ways to heat a
planet that sprinkle it with Sitchin's magic dust--namely, put
it in a Dyson sphere or put a fusion reactor in orbit.

<snip>

 >IF the Sumerian Tablets are true stories, not just fables, then
 >those "Space Travelers" who established "earth base 1" would
 >know much more about interplanetary travel than we. They would
 >also be aware of a far more advanced knowledge of The Laws of
 >Physics which Govern the Universe than We.

Which makes me wonder why they thougt it practical to mine gold
from Earth when they could have mined it much more easily from,
say, the asteroid belt.  (This is assuming that Sitchin's
gold-mining scenario is plausible, which it isn't.)

 >If they did indeed create "genetic clones" or "earth life forms"
 >based on Their DNA and the DNA of the highest form of Anthropoid
 >life on Earth, then I would suggest they understood much more
 >about the DNA Chain and its construction than WE do.

Maybe, but not much more.  _We_ can clone now.  Genetic
engineering is hot stuff right now, and we're getting better at
it all the time.

 >We also promote our Ego, and tend to talk down to everyone else.
 >In essence, by being so adament in our opinions, we are talking
 >down to those who may well have been responsible for our being
 >here.

I'm _so_ sorry to offend the ancient astronauts.  I may even
lose sleep over this.

I hate to be sarcastic, as I think Sitchin has shown a legitimate
mystery.  However, as I have already said, his _details_ are
borderline incoherent.

--Mac Tonnies








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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Patrick Killeen<p.killeen@sympatico.caca>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:29:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:22:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi all,

 >Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >Superstorm?

 >Cheers Sharon


lol.. begin reading here:

http://www.globalsuperstorm.com/

begin to laugh here.

Patrick






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                  Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:34:36 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:32:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:52:41 EST
 >Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:53:53 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

<snip>

 >Back during the Roswell events in July 1947, I don't believe the
 >newspapers referred specifically to a "crash," but the word
 >"wreckage" was definitely used.  E.g. the United Press story of
 >July 9 read:

 >   "Reports of flying saucers whizzing through the sky fell off
 >   sharply today as the Army and Navy began a concentrated
 >   campaign to stop the rumors....  Headquarters of the 8th Army
 >   Air Force at Fort Worth, Tex., announced that the WRECKAGE of
 >   a tin-foil covered object found on a New Mexico ranch was
 >   nothing more than the remnants of a weather observation
 >   balloon.  AAF headquarters in Washington reportedly delivered
 >   a 'blistering' rebuke to officers at the Roswell, N.M. base
 >   for suggesting that it was a 'flying disc.'"

 >The N.Y. Herald-Tribune headline July 9 read:

 >   ARMY SEIZES A GROUNDED 'DISK,' FINDS IT IS A WEATHER BALLOON
 >   -- Wreckage Found in New Mexico Desert Flown to Fort Worth and
 >   Identified After 7-1/2 Hours;  'Disks' Reported in England,
 >   Australia

 >Followed by:

 >   "Army Air Forces intelligence officers seized a battered heap
 >   of foil-covered wreckage in the desert near Roswell, N.M.,
 >   yesterday, and for seven and a half hours the Army thought it
 >   might have discovered a genuine flying disk."

David:

On further consideration, It seems that the use of the word
"wreckage" in the above citations was introduced by the writers
or editors of the stories, since the AF didn't use the word.

Clear skies,
Bob






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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:42:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:39:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 12:50:17 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 06:41:16 -0800
 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hello all, Sharon,

 >>>Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >>>From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >>>Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Hi all,

 >>>Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >>>I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >>>co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >>>Superstorm?

 >>>Cheers Sharon

 >>Haven't read it but l'll bet it contirbutes to Global Warming
 >>just by all the hot air generated by the authors. Methane too.
 >>Organic fertilizer. Meadow Muffins. I'd better quit.

 >>GT McCoy


 >I have read the book and I enjoyed it. If you want to read some
 >detailed reviews, go to Amazon.com and read the reviews by
 >readers. Both sides, pro and con, are represented.

 >Also, readers wrote to the globalsuperstorm.com website which
 >posted their comments on the website. Once again, both sides,
 >pro and con, are represented.

 >BTW, the authors stress that global warming occuring right now
 >is a natural, cyclical event. The part that humans play in this
 >hasn't been proven yet. Possibly, they argue, we may have helped
 >speed the process up a bit.

 >The book is beautifully written, thanks to some of Strieber's
 >fiction experience. He writes about what the superstorm would

It may be Melville or Twain or Bill Shakespeare for heaven's sake,
but do you believe all of say 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' or 'A
Curious Dream' - including the proprietor(s) of Bell's
'Dreamland'?

 >feel like to different cities around the world. Obviously, the
 >is the fiction part of the book.

So my friend, what is the non fiction part? (hey, I'm not
holding you to this question, this is retorical - directed at
Mr. Bell.)

Is Art Bell (as I vaguely recall) one of the earlier proponets
of the Hale-Bopp Companion?

Wasn't he one of the earlier Y2K enthusiasts?-and a regular
Disasterist on a Global scale? along with Linda Moulton Howe?

You know, my own feelings and opinions (just like theirs) are
irreleveant - things are out of our control - we are not
omnipotent - and we may not see the the rope around our leg as
we throw the Harpoon....

GT McCoy

"Get your facts first,then distort them as
   much as you want." -from Twain's
   "Roughing It"






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                       Speculative Martian Archaeology

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 01:03:47 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 04:53:14 -0500
Subject: Speculative Martian Archaeology


Why The 'Coathanger' Feature Below 'Face' Deserves Closer Look

by Mac Tonnies

1. The Problem with Profiles

The so-called "Coathanger" feature was one of several relatively
small-scale anomalies discovered on the pictures returned by the
Mars Global Surveyor.  Located to the lower left of the "Face,"
the "Coathanger" is most immediately interesting because of the
unexplained "tracks" found at its base.  The markings have a
very high albedo, and while no definitive geological explanation
has been put forward, it's possible that the "tracks" may be
composed of water ice.  (Similar bright marking can be found
nearby on the irregularly shaped mesa next to the Face, and
still others can be seen near the "tip" of the "City Pyramid"
formation.)

So far, speculation regarding the Coathanger's potential
artificiality has been limited to the tracks' unusual linear
configuration and unexplained albedo.  But it has also been
noticed that the "Coathanger" feature itself is interesting in
that it very closely resembles a bottle-nosed dolphin seen in
profile.

Usually a feature of this sort would be dismissed; like the
spattering of mud NASA has called "Kermit the Frog," all sorts
of creatures seem to appear on the Martian surface in profile.
While the Face was originally explained away for much the same
reason, it has since been demonstrated, using data from both
Viking and MGS, that it is a three-dimensional formation that
retains facial aspects under a variety of lighting conditions
and viewing angles.

2.  Anomalous Characteristics

Why, then, is the Coathanger an exception?  In my opinion, the
dolphin resemblance bears a closer look for the following
reasons:

1.) Presence of previously mentioned "tracks" running parallel
to "dolphin" shape (if it is, in fact, a representation of a
dolphin)

2.) Proximity to Face.  If the Face is artificial, as mounting
evidence indicates may be the case, then it's certainly
reasonable to presume that its builders left other artifacts in
the same area.  This contention has been born out by the
presence of large anomalous surface formations such as the
"Fort" and "D&M Pyramid," as well as a number of smaller (below
Viking resolution) features revealed by the MGS that exhibit
unusual characteristics.

3.) Apparent modified terrain.  As in the case with the "Cliff"
and "Crater Pyramid," the Coathanger/Dolphin feature sits very
near an apparent impact crater.  Furthermore, there is a shallow
groove running through the crater that appears to be a
continuation of a more prominent, triangular "cut" located to
the immediate left of the Coathanger.

The reason why crater rims appear to have been excavated in the
distant past is unknown, though it's been suggested that the
builders had a limited reliance on subsurface water and
constructed facilities to exploit subsurface material uprooted
by impact.  The best examples of this hypothesis are the
tunnel-like features extending from a crater directly south of
the aforementioned Crater Pyramid, which may be the remains of
an attempt to mine ice from the Martian surface.  (This theory
provides a potentially interesting vantage on the time-frame of
the Cydonian builders as well.)

4.) Associated anomaly.  Aside from the Face, the Coathanger is
positioned directly above a bright, circular dome, probably
composed of the same material as the Coathanger and "tracks."
This domed feature exhibits a very high albedo, possibly due to
ice.  How, exactly, ice came to be localized in such a precise
and intentional-looking manner remains an open question.  If not
ice, then what?  Possibly the answer can only be arrived at by
ground-based exploration.

Interestingly, the bright dome in question is accompanied by a
very narrow, straight line suggesting a possible road.  This
line leads directly to the adjacent crater, and appears parallel
with the line of unexplained "tracks" that frame the bottom
portion of the proposed "dolphin."

5.) Internal detail.  I compared the shape of the Coathanger to
that of a bottle-nosed dolphin and was interested to find that
the salient dolphin features are present in the Martian
formation.  Granted, there are not many (i.e. dorsal fin, tail,
nose), but they appear in proper proportion.  The dorsal fin is
appropriately sloped, not a random triangular feature.

I also noted what may well be an eyeball, with hints of
structure, on the "dolphin's" "head."  The "eye" is easily
identifiable as a black speck--the only variation in the
dolphin's regular albedo.  Like the dorsal fin and tail, the eye
is located precisely where it should be if the dolphin feature
is, in fact, an artificial structure designed to resemble a
dolphin (or other cetacean).

3. Conclusion

New evidence indicates that a substantial ocean once existed in
Mars' northern hemisphere.  Indeed, it's been theorized that the
Cydonian "City" complex once sat on a shoreline, with the Face
emerging as an artificial island.  Surely the presence of a
"dolphin" next to the Face invites inquiry.  Common skeptical
argument will have it that it's absurd to see the likeness of a
terrestrial animal on another planetary surface, to which I say,
"What of it?"  The Face, after all, appears human (or humanoid),
and has successfully passed every test for artificiality posed
to it thus far, using images from a variety of sun angles and
resolutions.

While I am of the opinion that a definitive assessment of
Cydonia will probably have to await a manned presence on Mars, I
think the odds for Cydonia's anomaly being exclusively natural
are arbitrarily low.  Once the existence of probable
extraterrestrial artifacts is admitted, even as an exercise in
probability, the search for small-scale surface anomalies is
warranted.  Given the evidence above, I think the Coathanger
formation itself, and not just its attendant "tracks," falls
into the range of "anomalous" and deserves future study.

Sources:

'The Case for the Face' (McDaniel, Paxson, eds.)

'The Martian Enigmas' (Carlotto)

'The Monuments of Mars' (Hoagland)

'The McDaniel Report Newsletter'
  www.mcdanielreport.com

'The Martian Enigmas Homepage'
  www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html








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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 01:25:02 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:41:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:20:13 -0700
 >From: David N Kirby <davkirby@lucent.com>
 >Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Whitley, I am quite perplexed at this persecution complex you
 >seem to have regarding reviews and attention by the media.

 >First, what is a 'false' review, exactly? Someone thinks your
 >book stinks.

 >Who says he's wrong? You?

 >Second, why is 'being ignored' somehow a press torment.
 >Thousands of writers and their work are routinely ignored by
 >press and critical publications, why is your fate a function of
 >calculated torment? Give us a break, Whitley. Perhaps the only
 >common consensus that you're not nearly as important a writer as
 >you think you are. Here's a suggestion: Try going back to
 >straight-out fiction -- that's what you're best at, and I think
 >you know that.

This is probably the keenest--and certainly the most viscious--
skeptical look at Strieber I've come across.  Yes, Strieber's
essay, "The Problem with the Press," is unbecomingly whiny.
Strieber appears to me to be rather comfortable being a sort of
quasi-martyr.  Even so, I thought "The Problem with the Press"
was a pretty good piece of work.  Even if you're not a "fan" of
Strieber (and I readily admit that I think his take on the UFO
phenomenon is one of the most interesting and intelligent out
there), the essay makes some very good points.

If you're a writer wanting critical attention (and what writer
isn't?), "The Problem with the Press" is probably going to bug
you on some level.  Pariah-hood aside, Strieber is a very
successful writer of fiction and non-fiction, so it's sort of
hard to drown yourself in sympathy for him.

But his general critique of the "world situation" in regards to
ufology is spot-on.  When's the last time you saw a news article
about UFOs without the now-obligatory condescending references
to "The X-Files"?  When's the last time a reporter dug into the
Roswell event--whatever it was--with any degree of objectivity
(outside of a UFO publication)?

While I really enjoyed this open letter, I sympathize with the
general issues raised by Strieber, if not necessarily with
Strieber himself.  There are two ways of approaching this piece;
mentally delete any trace of self-pity and you've got a fine
editorial.

--Mac Tonnies







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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 11:36:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:44:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:00 +0800
 >From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >Subject: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi all,

 >Pardon my ignorance if it has been mentioned before here :) but
 >I was curious if anyone had read a book Art Bell apparently
 >co-authored with Whitley Strieber called The Coming Global
 >Superstorm?

 >Cheers Sharon


Michael Lindemann gave it an outstanding review. I find very
unlikely that Bell actually even wrote any of the book though...

Royce J. Myers III
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog








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                         Re: Traces Of The Ancients

From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda@mail.koc.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:35:51 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:48:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 21:55:17 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:13:23 -0800
 >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:23:09 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>IF the Sumerian Tablets are true stories, not just fables, then
 >>those "Space Travelers" who established "earth base 1" would
 >>know much more about interplanetary travel than we. They would
 >>also be aware of a far more advanced knowledge of The Laws of
 >>Physics which Govern the Universe than We.

The origins of the Epic of Gilgamesh can be traced back into the
earliest civilizations of Mesopotamia.

King Gilgamesh was known to be two third divine and one third
human, and he went on a formidable quest to find his divine
origins and gain the gods' immortality. He was usually depicted
as a very tall man between two lions, for it was known also that
he went into battle barehanded with some of them.

Some scholars think that Gilgamesh was a mythical character
invented by scribes and priests, but others, such as Zecharia
Sitchin and Alan Alford, offer quite intriguing evidence that
Gilgamesh could have been a living being in his quest for
knowledge, at a time when flesh-and-blood gods ruled the Earth.

Also you can find( I- XI) tablets here: Also please refer traces
of the ancients chapter 2 and 3

http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Gold/9906/gam/sumer.html

Erol Erkmen

taraces of the ancients chapter 3,4
http://tuvpo99.tripod.com/old/3.html
http://tuvpo99.tripod.com/old/4.html









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                   Wanted - Close Encounters Of Forth Kind

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:52:30 -0500
Subject: Wanted - Close Encounters Of Forth Kind


Greetings list -

From:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000140326706927&rtmo=Lbi7htld&atmo=Lbi7htld&
pg=/et/00/1/5/nufo05.html

Wanted: Close Encounters Of Forth Kind
By Telegraph Correspondent
Wednesday 5 January 2000

A JAPANESE television company is to film the sky above two
Scottish hills for six months non-stop in an attempt to record a
UFO.

Berwick Law and Traprain Law, two extinct volcanoes which rise
dramatically from the flat land on the south bank of the Firth
of Forth, have gained a reputation among UFO enthusiasts
recently for strange visitations.

A film crew hired by a Japanese TV company plans to set up
cameras on the roof of the Templar Lodge Hotel in the nearby
town of Gullane, in the spring. The cameras will be trained on
both hills and their footage will be broadcast on the internet.

Stephen Prior, head of marketing at the Templar Lodge, said:
"Some Japanese golfers on holiday here saw something strange up
there, and word of this seems to have got back to Japan. There
is a long Celtic tradition of fairies on the hills -
traditionally, you wouldn't take your baby up there for fear of
it being turned into a changeling."

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com







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                      Sprint Says 'Area 51' Does Exist

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 01:00:03 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:03:56 -0500
Subject: Sprint Says 'Area 51' Does Exist



Greetings list -

From: http://www.hackernews.com/arch.html?010500#7

A standard service disruption report filed with the Federal
Communications Commission by Sprint lists an outage on December
22, 1999 that includes "Las Vegas, NV - Pahrump, NV - Military
Base 'AREA 51'".

A PDF file of the report can be downloaded at:

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Filings/Network_Outage/1999/re
ports/99-228.pdf

Grab it while you can. :)

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com









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                       Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 05:19:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:07:06 -0500
Subject: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town


Thanks to researcher Jerry Hamm for informing of the following
item:


"Explosive sound shatters quiet of Bloomville night"

Source: The Blade
Toledo, Ohio

Date - Tuesday, January 4, 2000

Website URL: http://www.toledoblade.com/editorial/news/0a04shat.htm

"Explosive sound shatters quiet of Bloomville night"

By Mike Tressler
Blade Staff Writer

BLOOMVILLE, OH. - Some residents here were ready to change their
town's name to "BOOMville" early yesterday.

A mysterious explosion shook the Seneca County village and
startled residents just after midnight.

So far, the cause of the boom is unexplained. Officials are
investigating.

Ear witnesses said the night was quiet when suddenly -- Ka-Boom!
-- a single explosion was felt and heard by residents within a
mile-wide circle. Resident Nicole Phillips said it rattled her
whole house.

"Scary. It was very scary," Rene Bernal, another resident, said.
"It felt like our house was hit by something. The walls shook.

"My daughter, Julia, was on the phone, and she came running out
of her room yelling that she thought something was coming
through her walls."

Mrs. Bernal's husband, Tim, ran outside. He and a neighbor
searched but found nothing.

The Bernals were among the many who called police, prompting
Chief Howard Minzer to check the entire village on foot. "He
found no flashes, no power outages, no fires," said police
Officer Mark Lawson.

Officer Lawson had just arrived home when he felt the blast at
his midtown residence.

"It was a very, very loud explosion, definitely somewhere in
town," he said. "But nothing is damaged in the village, and no
one has reported anything.

"We have no idea what it could have been. It's a mystery."

Col. A.J. Feucht, commander of the Ohio Air National Guard 180th
Fighter Wing, based at Toledo Express Airport, said no flights
by supersonic or any other aircraft were in the air at that
time.

[end of article]
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:18:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:09:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


Hello Jenny!

 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:45:12 +0000
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Steuart Campbell reckons it was a mirage of mercury or some such
 >planet. I think that's a bit unlikely!

Wasn't his first "explanation" a sort of "black ball lightning"?
(or is my memory wrong?)

If I remember, Steuart was at first oriented toward an "it's all
natural phenomena" line. He changed his mind to a "it's all and
always mirages of stars/planets" at a later date (circa 1985).
Is that right?

Regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it








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                        Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI

From: Jeroen Wierda <jeroen@wierda.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:29:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:21:34 -0500
Subject: Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI


From: Jeroen Wierda <jeroen@wierda.com>

January 04, 2000

FREE FOR REPOSTING

PUFORI Closing

The news that I am about to bring to you may come as an
unpleasant surprise to some, and to others it may be what they
have hoped for. PUFORI has existed since September 1996 and has
come from the idea that all information should be freely and
easily accessible to everyone.

To do this I started gathering information from all over the
internet. This consisted of mostly recent news items and
articles...

As the site grew I also added full online books and other useful
features such as discussion forums and discussionlists. I made
PUFORI into an organization (or at least I tried to) with
members who would help out with the site, because the site... and
whatever plans I had were bigger than I could do by myself
alone.

However... something was wrong.

It seemed like all action I took with PUFORI... all new
initiatives were destined to fail. I have set up a
discussionlists which doesn't have any discussions, I have added
discussionforums which are not used, I have added two chat pages
between 1996 and 1999... both f iled... I tried starting a
newsletter twice... it failed or didn't even come off the
ground.

Out of pure frustration I removed PUFORI from being an
organization early last year (1999) and tried to let it continue
as just a site... I even took 3 months off to think on what to
do next.

I had renewed hopes for the site after I returned from my 3
month leave. I started a newsgathering list, and worked on
getting a chat room again for the third time... since I believed
the time was right to open such room again.

I was filled with hopes and ideas for it, and I invited a well
known guest to speak and answer questions in this new room.

For the first 3 weeks I was in this chat room for one fixed hour
each day of the week, but somehow only about two persons have
ever entered the room while I was there during those hours.

This was not an environment in which I wanted to ask our guest
to speak... it would be a disappointment as well as an
embarrassment for both of us. I delayed the guest chat twice,
leaving a two week gap to see if the room would get more
popular... it didn't. I last month came to the conclusion that
it would be best to close the room again. Another waste of my
valuable time.

Another problem I have had last year which greately contributes
to my leaving, is that my internet provider (CI-Host..
http://www.cihost.com ) had been abusing my credit card in June
of 1999. I have written a lot of letters to them, which all went
unanswered.. or returned standard messages. I was forced to
block my credit card to stop them from billing me. The new
billing period started last month (December), and I won't be
paying my bills to them anymore. I expect that CI-Host will be
blocking my site very soon... I do not have the slightest bit of
respect left for CI-Host. And I hereby like to suggest people
not to take their services..... because you WILL be scammed. On
top of that, they have downgraded teh size of my account so that
I no longer can post any new items.

Since April 1997 the amount of visitors to PUFORI had been quite
constant at around 90 a day to the frames version. But
even though the site grew in size to over 7000 pages in 1999, the
visitor rate did not climb up... in fact it started declining by
30% (to the frames portion of the site).

I have done everything I know of to make this site known... but
somehow the search engines won't place it high in their
rankings. Imagine the frustration this causes when you put your
life in a project over a period of three years, but you don't
get any recognition for the work you do. And all around
you... you see new very small UFO sites jumping up everywhere...
and getting MORE visitors a day than your large project.

This is eating me up, and I no longer feel that what I do is
worth the time and effort that I put into it. I therefore have
come to the difficult conclusion that it would be best... for
me... to close the site completely and permanently. I am
completely burned up...

So here it finally ends... As soon as this e-mail is sent out, I
will be deleting my complete site... a little over 7500 pages
and 350Mb of data will be lost, and will not return to the web.

All PUFORI discussion lists will also be permanently closed
after sending out this mailing. Should you use PUFORI pages for
your own non-commercial site... please do credit me for my work.

I will further completely withdraw from the UFO field (including
quitting and closing PUFORI discussionlists), and will not
return.

Fare thee well.

Jeroen Wierda
Jeroen@wierda.com

Postal Address:
Jeroen Wierda,
PO Box 352,
5201AJ Den Bosch,
The Netherlands

PS: I wish to thank those people who have stood beside me during
the time PUFORI existed, and who have supported me with
compliments, pep-talk and articles. I am sorry to have to remove
this site, and I hope you understand my reasons.

---People won't understand what they miss, until it is really gone---

****************************
SKYWATCH INTERNATIONAL, INC.
(A Non-Profit Organization)

Please visit the Skywatch International Inc. Website At:
http://www.skywatch-international.org







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                          Re: Bell & Strieber Book?

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 07:17:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 09:28:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 20:42:51 -0800
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: Bell & Strieber Book?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Is Art Bell (as I vaguely recall) one of the earlier proponets
 >of the Hale-Bopp Companion?

Art Bell's program became a platform for those who were
promoting the concept of the "companion" to the Hale-Bopp comet,
but that might not serve to classify him as a proponent.  This
may speak volumns regarding Bell's ability to screen the
veracity of his guests, or the conscious lack thereof.  However,
this doesn't mean that the messanger has any great belief
structure that is tied to that of his guests.  I think that it's
important that we remember that the program is primarily
entertainment.

 >Wasn't he one of the earlier Y2K enthusiasts?-and a regular
 >Disasterist on a Global scale? along with Linda Moulton Howe?

Agreed, but he certainly wasn't alone.  National Public Radio
(NPR) gave hours of time to those who were promoting doom and
gloom regarding the coming Y2K meltdown, with little or no
programming to balance their predictions.  One of the more
moving doom and gloom scenerios was outlined before Congress
back around 1996 during public hearings, so I would suspect that
this issue shouldn't necessarily be used as the tar to hold the
feathers on.

BTW, I believe that Linda Howe (like Bell) is a reporter at
heart.

 >You know, my own feelings and opinions (just like theirs) are
 >irreleveant - things are out of our control - we are not
 >omnipotent - and we may not see the the rope around our leg as
 >we throw the Harpoon....

 >GT McCoy

Yeah.  We've travelled so far, and seem to be getting nowhere.

Steve







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                  Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:22:32 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:34:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:34:36 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:52:41 EST
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:53:53 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

 ><snip>

 >>Back during the Roswell events in July 1947, I don't believe the
 >>newspapers referred specifically to a "crash," but the word
 >>"wreckage" was definitely used.  E.g. the United Press story of
 >>July 9 read:

 >>   "Reports of flying saucers whizzing through the sky fell off
 >>   sharply today as the Army and Navy began a concentrated
 >>   campaign to stop the rumors....  Headquarters of the 8th Army


Does anyone have in their files any reference to the US Navy
becoming involved in the Roswell Incident of 1947?

James Bond Johnson
Project Director
RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team)








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                  Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:30:35 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:46:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'


 >Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:34:36 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:52:41 EST
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:53:53 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

<snip>

 >>The N.Y. Herald-Tribune headline July 9 read:

 >>   ARMY SEIZES A GROUNDED 'DISK,' FINDS IT IS A WEATHER BALLOON
 >>   -- Wreckage Found in New Mexico Desert Flown to Fort Worth and
 >>   Identified After 7-1/2 Hours;  'Disks' Reported in England,
 >>   Australia

<snip>

Interesting that even in 1947 the press was interested in the
Timeline re the Roswell Incident that they were headlining down
to a half hour period! What time frame would that 7 1/2 hours
have covered?

James Bond Johnson
Project Director
RPIT (Roswell Photo Interpretation Team)







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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:40:02 +1100
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:49:39 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:02:48 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:08:00 +1100
 >>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>I also add the fact that the Pleiades are too young to support
 >>>anything like life yet.

 >>>Bill Alford


 >Hi Bill,

 >Could you please publish how you come to this fact, or point me
 >to a site where your research into the Pleiades System is?

You can find this in good astronomy books. The Pleiades, or
Messier object 45 (see the url
http://www.galaxyphoto.com/jwm45.jpg) is the brightest, nearest
and most famous young open star cluster in the constellation of
Taurus. It consists of many hundreds of bright, hot blue young
stars no more than about 10 million years old about 400 light
years from Earth that were all formed at the same time within a
large cloud of interstellar dust and gas. Compare this to the
Sun, a medium-sized, yellow medium-hot star in the middle of its
life which began about 4.6 billion years ago. The Pleiades star
nursery has been recognised since ancient times. Seven of the
brightest stars are quite easy to see with the unaided eye and
bear the names of the Seven Sisters, the daughters of Atlas (see
the url http://www.ras.ucalgary.ca/~gibson/pleiades/). The blue
haze that accompanies them is light reflected from the particles
in a cloud of cold gas and dust that the Pleiades formed from.
It appears blue because these tiny interstellar particles
scatter blue light more efficiently than the longer wavelengths
of red light and it is streaky because the particles have been
aligned by magnetic fields between the stars.


Bill Alford
googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa







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                                Re: Pleiades

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:09:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:54:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Pleiades

Dear List members:

There has been some discussion lately of the Pleiades and their
role in UFO related matters so I thought the following quotes
might be relevant:

"The constellation of the Pleiades plays an important part in
the calendar of primative peoples both in the northern and
southern hemisphere.  Indeed, for reasons which at first sight
are not obvious, savages appear to have paid more attention to
this constellation than to any other group of stars in the sky."
J.G. Frazer, *The Golden Bough*

"Worldwide, various aspects of this tiny, faint constellation-
its rising, its setting, its culmination-are not merely used as
indicators of the world, but the constellation is worshipped as
the provider of good things, a major controller of human
destiny.  It is the only star group which every people knows of
and every people respects." Stan Gooch, *Cities of Dreams*

"In ancient Egypt the Great Pyramid was so oriented that in
2170BC, when the Pleiades were on the meridian at midnight, they
could be veiwed through the south passage way.  So the Great
Pyramid itself was built with the Pleiades in mind."  Stan
Gooch, *Cities of Dreams*

"I cannot explain its significance ( Pleiades); why of all
stellar objects this minute cluster of stars of low magnitude is
more important than other stellar groups is not clear to me." J
Walter Fewkes (1895) Naturalist and writer re Pueblo Indians

Merry Millenium to all,
Ed








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                               NASA Questions

From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:15:00 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:01:20 -0500
Subject: NASA Questions


I have two questions related to NASA,

First: who was the first to speculate about the possibility of
life in Europa? I remember having read that for the first time
on Arthur Clarke�s "2010", but not before. I imagine the idea
originated within the NASA teams... the submarine and
subvolcanic smokes on Earth that appeared over the oceanic floor
were probably discovered 15 or 20 years ago, the hot needed to
maintain life... so that might be between the Voyager missions
and this submarine smokes surprise...

Second: The dialog that was said existed among the Apollo XI
crew and the Mission Control on Earth ("those guys are huge,
sir...), relative to UFOs on the lunar surface... was it a hoax?
You guys may know what was the end for that story.

Thanks.
Carlos G. Roselli









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                          UK Conference 2000 Latest

From: Tim MathewsTMMatthews99@aol.com
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:35:08 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:10:50 -0500
Subject: UK Conference 2000 Latest


Dear All,

We're moving closer towards CONFERENCE 2000 - to be held in the
Central Library, Chorley, Lancashire on Saturday 29th January
starting at 10.30am.

We've brought together an exciting array of speakers and are
also giving away a free copy of the newly re-launched small
press UK Paranormal magazine The Goblin Universe to every
attender.

Speakers include; Roger Hennessey, Jenny Randles, Jon Downes,
Andy Roberts, Brian Allan and Billy Devlin, Ralph Ellis,Tim
Matthews, Steve Mera and Eric Morris.

We hope to set even higher standard this year and remember, this
is your chance to find out about the very latest research into
the Paranormal, SETI, secret discplane technologies, the Winter
Hill CE3 and MIB case of November 1999, Ancient Mysteries/Places
of Power, new books from Jenny Randles, Andy Roberts and Dr.
David Clarke and also the latest on Haunted Scotland!

As an extra item, we'll be providing new and exclusive evidence
relating to "Mr. Shadow" himself, the most sinister, influential
and nowadays unseen character who guides Ufology from his HQ!
(No, it's not me!)

All in all, an exciting prospect.

We hope to see you there!

Tim Matthews - Discovery UK

www.angelfire.com/sd/discoveryuk/index.html







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                         Re: Traces Of The Ancients

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:26:15 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:24:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 10:35:51 +0200
 >From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda@mail.koc.net>
 >Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>IF the Sumerian Tablets are true stories, not just fables, then
 >>>those "Space Travelers" who established "earth base 1" would
 >>>know much more about interplanetary travel than we. They would
 >>>also be aware of a far more advanced knowledge of The Laws of
 >>>Physics which Govern the Universe than We.

 >The origins of the Epic of Gilgamesh can be traced back into the
 >earliest civilizations of Mesopotamia.

 >King Gilgamesh was known to be two third divine and one third
 >human, and he went on a formidable quest to find his divine
 >origins and gain the gods' immortality. He was usually depicted
 >as a very tall man between two lions, for it was known also that
 >he went into battle barehanded with some of them.

 >Some scholars think that Gilgamesh was a mythical character
 >invented by scribes and priests, but others, such as Zecharia
 >Sitchin and Alan Alford, offer quite intriguing evidence that
 >Gilgamesh could have been a living being in his quest for
 >knowledge, at a time when flesh-and-blood gods ruled the Earth.

 >Also you can find( I- XI) tablets here: Also please refer traces
 >of the ancients chapter 2 and 3

 >http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Gold/9906/gam/sumer.html

 >Erol Erkmen

 >taraces of the ancients chapter 3,4
 >http://tuvpo99.tripod.com/old/3.html
 >http://tuvpo99.tripod.com/old/4.html


Thank you Erol for this post.

Yes there are a plethera of legends which could be traced back
to the ancient Sumerian and Babylonian Civilizations.

I cannot direct others on how to connect the mysteries of the
past to the accepted ideology of the present.

Each must find his/her own reality.  Arguing over these legends
and stories, is not the correct way to accomplish it.

Thus, I simply state my opinion and from that point on I let it
be.

Thanks again for your input.  I greatly appreciate it! <smile>

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---







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                      Re: Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:56:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:26:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI


 >From: Jeroen Wierda <jeroen@wierda.com>
 >To: skywatch_discussion@onelist.com
 >Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:29:17 +0100
 >Subject: [SO] Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI

Hi, Jeroen!

I'm sorry to hear of your decision. I think that your hit rate
was quite respectable and you should not be disappointed by the
reception to your site. Long term growth occurs, but it is not
based on search engine placement - it is based on word of mouth
and links from other sites, which come with long-term sustained
quality.

Also note that frame based sites cut out a fairly large (25%+)
of possible visitors based on the statistics available to me.

Chat rooms are, in my opinion, as a guest who has been in them,
a waste of time. E-mail lists such as this offer so much greater
a chance for substantive discussion that what can be done in a
chat room must be seen as unlikely to be useful. In addition,
the need to bind to a time and a date is antithetical to the
advantages provided by the internet, which, in the form of
e-mail and newsgroups, allow people to participate when it is
convenient for them.

Anyway, good luck in your future endeavors, whatever they may
be.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, music and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------






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                                [bwwma] FLASH

From: Bufo Calvin <BufoCalvin@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 01:32:18 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:30:53 -0500
Subject: [bwwma] FLASH


Really busy week, haven't been able to do the Media Alert
yet... very little time to do anything.

One flash... Uri Geller is supposed to be on the Tonight Show
tonight on NBC at 11:30 PM.  Don't be surprised if he's asked
about Pokemon... apparently, he's not happy that there is a
"psychic" pokemon named something like "Uni Geller" that gives
other pokemons a headache as one of its attacks.  This does not
appear to be one of the pokemons known commonly to children here
in the US yet.

One other particular one of note: Saturday at 10:00 PM, The
Learning Channel will repeat 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained
Mysteries'. Been hearing some buzz about it, including the
'Bigfoot' footage.

___________________________

This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that
_would_ be weird!"
____________________________

Please let me know if there is something in the media you think
I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.
---
You can subscribe to this list by sending an e-mail to
bwwma-subscribe@onelist.com.  You can unsubscribe by sending an
e-mail to bwwma-unsubscribe@onelist.com.
---
You may also be interested in Bufo's WEIRD NEWS LINKS (links to
weird stories in non-paranormal-dedicated media) by sending an
e-mail to bwnl-subscribe@onelist.com.
---
You may also wish to subscribe to Bufo's ANOMALIT Review (a
monthly review and listings of new books and other items on
these topics) by sending an e-mail to
anomalit-subscribe@onelist.com.







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                         Re: Traces Of The Ancients

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:43:25 +1100
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:36:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 00:23:09 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 17:36:06 +1100
 >>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: Traces Of The Ancients
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >><snip>

 >>>So if they're here [ETs], then it's not because we have
 >>>something they want, in any recognized sense.

 >>I refer you to Zecharia Sitchin's book "The Twelfth Planet" to
 >>see that they have been here in the past mining for gold and
 >>other minerals. I do have disagreements with Zecharia Sitchin,
 >>which you can see at the url given below, but I don't disagree
 >>with him about what I wrote in the previous sentence.

Discussion has been taking place about what this mining was all
about. Zecharia Sitchin's ideas on what the gold was mined for
are invalid because his twelfth planet doesn't exist but
nonetheless Zecharia Sitchin gives us clues. What follows is so
far not widely known about and has been the subject of
skepticism. I and others have speculated that there was
something far more interesting going on that is only now being
investigated that could be of interest to this e-mail list
because of anti-gravity, etc. The pure platinum group of metals,
which includes gold, normally are in a metallic state where the
atoms are all bonded together with their own kind. However, if
you heat the pure platinum group of metals up to a very high
temperature they eventually change into a white very fluffy
powder with interesting properties. What has happened when the
white powder forms is that the atoms will no longer form
metal-metal bonds with their own kind. The atoms won't form
metal-metal bonds because their nucleus is in a high spin state
which screens the valence electrons and they are no longer
available to form normal molecular bonds. In this state each
electron is paired up with another electron in a Cooper paired
state. When electrons are Cooper paired, they cease to behave as
particles and begin to behave more like light and we now have a
superconductor. The white powder is the monoatomic state of the
element and David Hudson has been investigating this. David
Hudson calls the white powder Orbitally Rearranged Monoatomic
Elements or ORMEs. Superconductors have interesting properties
and not surprisingly interesting things have been noticed about
these monoatomic powders like odd explosions, anti-gravity
properties, disappearing and other things. Where the monoatomic
powder disappears to is an interesting question.

David Hudson applied for a patent on this and his patent was
granted in several countries but not the USA. In the USA David
Hudson's patent was not granted because the USA military stepped
in and declared the USA patent military information and
disallowed it. This raises the interesting question of what is
the USA military doing with the monoatomic powders and it is not
hard to come up with possible answers given their interesting
properties. You can read about this at the url
http://209.17.143.141/ormus/whatisit.htm It is now not hard to
speculate that the minerals that were being mined in ancient
times were put to far more interesting uses as monoatomic
powders than we have so far made of these minerals.

 From the white powder that Professor Sir William Matthew
Flinders Petrie (1853-1942) found at the ancient Egyptian temple
at Mount Serabit on the Sinai in 1904,  it appears that the
ancient Egyptians and Moses knew about and used the white gold
powder. W M F Petrie was a grandson of Matthew Flinders, the
great English navigator and explorer of the Australian coast
line. You can read more about this at:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/starfire3.html

and in the book by Sir Laurence Gardner called "Genesis of the
Grail Kings", Bantam, 1999, which is not without major mistakes
but it does fill in a lot of the details about the monoatomic
powders in the past. This book goes over much the same ancient
material as Zecharia Sitchin but in a very different way. The
original Egyptians were Sumerians. So far there is no evidence
that I know of that the ancient mining was for the purposes of
making the monoatomic powders but it is not hard to speculate
that it was for this purpose given what we know from the ancient
writings.


Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa








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                              TUVPO Site Hacked

From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda@mail.koc.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:30:56 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:51:45 -0500
Subject: TUVPO Site Hacked


0n 06.January.2000 our pages were hacked by an unknown person or
group of people. For this reason some of our pages do not work
properly and may be seen as damaged while they are being
reloaded. Therefore we would like you to report to us any
damaged page. We apologise for this inconvenience. Our pages
will soon be back to normal.

We, as TUVPO staff, consider that this person or group of people
have severe personality problems, and beleive that they should
get immediate treatment... such activities are temporary, but
TUVPO will always remain...

Sincerely,

Erol Erkmen
TUVPO Chairman

-Banu Sevim
  Public Relations Ad.Assistant

-Reha Ersavc
  Marmara Region Ad.Assistant

-Mutlu Payaslolu
  Ankara city Ad.Assistant

-Adnan Topcu
  Afyon City Ad.Assistant

-M. Sertrk Karacaoval
  Bursa City Ad.Assistant

-Jorge Andrade
  Mexico Representative

-Natali Derder
  California Representative

-Dr. Levent Altas
  Science Consultant

-Orhan Berk
  Military Consultant

with 2000 tuvpo members ..!







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                             Re: NASA Questions

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:55:24 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:16:29 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Questions


 >From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar>
 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:15:00 -0300
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:01:20 -0500
 >Subject: NASA Questions

<snip>

 >The dialog that was said existed among the Apollo XI
 >crew and the Mission Control on Earth ("those guys are huge,
 >sir...), relative to UFOs on the lunar surface... was it a hoax?
 >You guys may know what was the end for that story.

Dear Carlos, List:

The above quote is apparently from a fake transcript (which used
things like, "Mission Control" instead of "Houston" and referred
to the "three of us" on the Moon, when there were only two.  See
James Oberg's "UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries", 1982, Chapter 3,
at <http://www.jamesoberg.com/>.


Clear skies,

Bob Young









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 03:34:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:19:34 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


Bill Alford wrote:

 >>Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:40:02 +1100
 >>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>You can find this in good astronomy books.

 >>Bill Alford

Hi Bill,

Well thanks for the  info regrading the chemical make of the
Pleiades, and the link of the well taken photo -but I dont think
you have answered my question.

Which was:

 >Could you please publish how you come to this fact, or point me
 >to a site where your research into the Pleiades System is?

I would like you to tell me how you came to the conclusion why
the Pleiades System is and I quote from you:

 >too young to support anything like life yet.

Your research.....

Regards,

Roy..









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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 16:14:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:24:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:18:43 +0100
 >From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
 >Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hello Jenny!

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:45:12 +0000
 >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Steuart Campbell reckons it was a mirage of mercury or some such
 >>planet. I think that's a bit unlikely!

 >Wasn't his first "explanation" a sort of "black ball lightning"?
 >(or is my memory wrong?)

 >If I remember, Steuart was at first oriented toward an "it's all
 >natural phenomena" line. He changed his mind to a "it's all and
 >always mirages of stars/planets" at a later date (circa 1985).
 >Is that right?


Hi,

Yes, Steuart has made a few attempts to resolve cases - moving
from ball lightning at first as you say. This is something which
I admire. But he tends to find a new idea and try to apply it to
everything. Whilst mirages do operate in certain cases (eg in my
view they had a role in Rendlesham - but that's another story)
they are not the cause of thousands of sightings or the magic
key to the UFO mystery.

Steuart came up with the idea, then seemed to try to force fit
it into so many situations where it frankly appears ludicrous.
For instance, he has the Trindade Island case as a mirage of
some planet, Alan Godfrey's abduction as a mirage of Venus and I
forget what Socorro was a mirage of but that was one too
according to his book. I got the impression that if ET landed in
Steuart's garden he would go up to him and say 'Excuse me, but
what exactly are you a mirage of because I know you cant be
real'.

Although I am jesting here, of course, its not Steuart or his
ideas that I am laughing at. Its the extremes to which it is all
too easy for any of us to take a perfectly viable pet solution
to some cases. But we all do it. I think Terence Meaden's plasma
vortex is a real effect and explains some cases very well (eg
Salto, Argentina) but I got tempted to seek out all sorts of
cases that might fit when Paul Fuller and I wrote our book 'Crop
Circles: A Mystery Solved' in l990. I recall Bill Chalker
(probably quite correctly) telling me there was no way my
reassessment of Rosedale, Victoria as a plasma vortex worked.
It is easy to take a good idea one step too far.

UFOs are a mix of many things and I believe that a number of
novel phenomena are at work. Plasma vortices and Steuart's
mirages are two that account for some cases - but not virtually
the entire mystery single handed. The trick is to know when your
theory works and when it is inappropriate to squeeze a case way
too hard to make it fit. This will just work against the
acceptance of what in moderation can be very worthy ideas.

Steuart proposed these things sincerely. To a point I think he
was right. I just believe he took that one step too far in
situations like Livingston.

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles







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                             Re: NASA Questions

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 12:23:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:26:07 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Questions


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:15:00 -0300
 >From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar>
 >Subject: NASA Questions
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >I have two questions related to NASA,

 >First: who was the first to speculate about the possibility of
 >life in Europa? I remember having read that for the first time
 >on Arthur Clarke�s "2010", but not before. I imagine the idea
 >originated within the NASA teams... the submarine and
 >subvolcanic smokes on Earth that appeared over the oceanic floor
 >were probably discovered 15 or 20 years ago, the hot needed to
 >maintain life... so that might be between the Voyager missions
 >and this submarine smokes surprise...

I think that if you read the foreword to "2010" you will find
that Clarke attributes the Europan life conjecture to none other
than Richard Hoagland.

 >Second: The dialog that was said existed among the Apollo XI
 >crew and the Mission Control on Earth ("those guys are huge,
 >sir...), relative to UFOs on the lunar surface... was it a hoax?
 >You guys may know what was the end for that story.

They weren't talking about UFOs.  They were viewing a photo of
Dolly Parton.

Regards,

Terry







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                     Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:21:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:28:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 05:19:06 -0500
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Thanks to researcher Jerry Hamm for informing of the following
 >item:

 >"Explosive sound shatters quiet of Bloomville night"

 >Source: The Blade
 >Toledo, Ohio

 >Date - Tuesday, January 4, 2000

 >Website URL: http://www.toledoblade.com/editorial/news/0a04shat.htm

 >"Explosive sound shatters quiet of Bloomville night"

 >By Mike Tressler
 >Blade Staff Writer

<snip>

A similar thing happened almost exactly 1 year ago in Delaware.
See:

http://www.janes.com/defence/editors/pentagon.html

for an article by Bill Sweetman.

Regards,

Terry








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                      Re: Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:46:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:31:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI


 >From: Jeroen Wierda <jeroen@wierda.com>
 >To: skywatch_discussion@onelist.com
 >Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 02:29:17 +0100
 >Subject: [SO] Jeroen Wierda Closing PUFORI

 >From: Jeroen Wierda <jeroen@wierda.com>

 >January 04, 2000

Hi Jeroen

 >PUFORI Closing

I am extremely sorry to hear this. I know when you came to this
years UK-UFO-Network annual Skywatch you was expressing doubts,
but I did not realise you were this disillusioned by modern
Ufology.

 >The news that I am about to bring to you may come as an
 >unpleasant surprise to some, and to others it may be what they
 >have hoped for. PUFORI has existed since September 1996 and has
 >come from the idea that all information should be freely and


 >So here it finally ends... As soon as this e-mail is sent out, I
 >will be deleting my complete site... a little over 7500 pages
 >and 350Mb of data will be lost, and will not return to the web.

I would ask that you do not delete all of this valuable
information. If you wish to be rid of it, please pass it this
way. I will see that it is freely available to all that would
like access to it, and I would do my best to get it all back
online again. If you could write it all onto a CD-Rom, if not I
could post you a hard disc for you to copy it onto? You will get
_full_ credit for all of your work, and many thanks too, from
all the people who be glad that this information is not lost.

 >All PUFORI discussion lists will also be permanently closed
 >after sending out this mailing. Should you use PUFORI pages for
 >your own non-commercial site... please do credit me for my work.


 >Fare thee well.

I hope the very same for you Jeroen.

 >Jeroen Wierda
 >Jeroen@wierda.com

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                             Re: NASA Questions

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:45:48 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:12:23 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Questions


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:15:00 -0300
 >From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar>
 >Subject: NASA Questions
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >First: who was the first to speculate about the possibility of
 >life in Europa? I remember having read that for the first time
 >on Arthur Clarke�s "2010", but not before. I imagine the idea
 >originated within the NASA teams... the submarine and
 >subvolcanic smokes on Earth that appeared over the oceanic floor
 >were probably discovered 15 or 20 years ago, the hot needed to
 >maintain life... so that might be between the Voyager missions
 >and this submarine smokes surprise...

Believe it or not, "The Europa Proposal" was conceived by
Richard Hoagland, the science writer who's now something of an
embarrassment to the Mars anomaly research community (though he
made some significant early observations about the "Face," etc.,
which he reports in his very good book "The Monuments of Mars."

Arthur C. Clarke even credits Hoagland for the idea in the
afterword to "2010."  I, for one, wish NASA and the news media
would likewise give him the credit he deserves.

 >Second: The dialog that was said existed among the Apollo XI
 >crew and the Mission Control on Earth ("those guys are huge,
 >sir...), relative to UFOs on the lunar surface... was it a hoax?
 >You guys may know what was the end for that story.

A complete myth, as far as I know.  I'm not sure where it
originated.

--Mac Tonnies






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                  Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:49:53 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:19:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'


 >From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:22:32 -0500 (EST)
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:34:37 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:52:41 EST
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:53:53 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Frank Edwards and The Roswell 'Crash'

 >><snip>


 >>the United Press story of July 9 read:

 >   "Reports of flying saucers whizzing through the sky fell off
 >   sharply today as the Army and Navy began a concentrated
 >   campaign to stop the rumors....  Headquarters of the 8th Army


 >Does anyone have in their files any reference to the US Navy
 >becoming involved in the Roswell Incident of 1947?

I know of nothing directly linking them to the Roswell incident.
But they were involved to some extent in the debunking campaign
that immediately followed, as alluded to by United Press.

One weather balloon demonstration was carried out by a Naval Air
Station in Seattle on July 10.  The Seattle Post-Intelligencer
showed photos of a nearby Naval Air Station launching a
radiosonde weather balloon.  It was suggested that these weather
balloons could be mistaken for the "flying disks."

More significant Naval weather balloon/radar target
demonstrations were carried out in Atlanta, one on July 9, and a
repeat performance on July 10.  Both demos were covered and
photographed by the Atlanta Constitution.  The second demo was
also picked up on the United Press wire and received some
national coverage.

The Atlanta demo was clearly carried out with the intent of
debunking the flying saucer reports.  In fact, the articles said
as much.  E.g., this was what the Atlanta Constitution wrote on
July 10 (front page):
-----------

'SAILING SAUCER' SECRET SOLVED?--The Answer Here

    A "flying saucer," silvery in the sun, sailed over Stone
Mountain Wednesday.

    It wasn't a paper plate or runaway kite or a figment of an
inebriate's imagination.

    It was, officers at the Naval Air Station believe, a genuine
"flying saucer" - the answer to the recent perplexing puzzle
plaguing the country's collective brains.

    Lt. Comdr. Thomas H. Rentz, of the Naval Air Station, said
the mysterious sailing discs that have been baffling the
nation are without doubt "ray winds," or tinfoil screens
borne aloft by balloons.  The screens are used, he said to
reflect radar rays and determine the velocity of the wind at
various altitudes.

    And just to prove that "ray winds" could be mistaken easily
by the layman for "saucers," Cmdr. Rentz arranged a
demonstration.

    At a cost of $25, Lt. Rell Zelle Moore, aerology officer at
the Air Station, launched a "ray wind," the first ever to be
released here, and the shining object was carried by
helium-filled balloons off into the blue and white
yonder...."

-----------------------------------

The headline in the Constitution on July 11 read:

NAVY PLANE IN CHASE OF 'SAUCER'--'Raywin' Again

Picture captions from the Constitution read:

BALLOONS LIFT "SAUCER"
Here's one of the balloons with saucer attached
"FLYING SAUCER" -- A "Raywin" sails upward

To give everyone more of a flavor of the debunking tone, here is
a sampling of headlines from newspapers that carried the UP
account of the Atlanta Navy demo:

Navy Spends $25 Cash to Prove Disks Illusions
    (Long Beach Press-Telegram, p. 2)

Navy Balloon Test Brings Flood of 'Saucer' Reports
    (Santa Barbara News Press, front page)

Disks Called Weather Devices
    (Denver Post)

'Disks' Debunked -- Gromyko, US Navy Agree!
    (Eugene Oregon Register-Guard, front page)

Practical Jokers Carry Ball for Flying Discs
    (Portland Oregon Journal)

Pranksters Have Day, Navy Explodes 'Flying Disc' Myth
    (Sacramento Bee)

Navy Spends $25 to Show Facsimile 'Flying Saucer'
    (Charleston S.C. News and Courier, front page)

Flying Saucers Actually Being Seen, Navy Proves
    (Baton Rouge State Times & Sunday Advocate, front page)


David Rudiak








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                             Re: NASA Questions

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 21:04:36 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:22:16 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Questions


 >Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:55:24 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Questions
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Carlos G. Roselli <croselli@email.ypf.com.ar>
 >>Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:15:00 -0300
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:01:20 -0500
 >>Subject: NASA Questions

 ><snip>

 >>The dialog that was said existed among the Apollo XI
 >>crew and the Mission Control on Earth ("those guys are huge,
 >>sir...), relative to UFOs on the lunar surface... was it a hoax?
 >>You guys may know what was the end for that story.

 >Dear Carlos, List:

 >The above quote is apparently from a fake transcript (which used
 >things like, "Mission Control" instead of "Houston" and referred
 >to the "three of us" on the Moon, when there were only two.  See
 >James Oberg's "UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries", 1982, Chapter 3,
 >at <http://www.jamesoberg.com/>.


Hi Bob,

I see on Discovery Canada tonight that James Oberg has reported
that the knives are out at NASA re another screwup, that being
the Martian Polar Lander was probably programed to land in an
area known [apparently by others] to be rife with canyons and
deep valleys. Apparently there was a JPL press conference
earlier today to help defuse the situation. The builders of the
Lander [they mentioned who but I've forgotten the name] are
accusing the project managers of picking a lousey site for the
landing. Another case of the right hand not knowing.......?
Thanks for the URL re Oberg, incidentally.

Best,

Don Ledger







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                     Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 20:03:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:26:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town


 >Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 13:21:07 -0500
 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >Subject: Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>"Explosive sound shatters quiet of Bloomville night"

 >A similar thing happened almost exactly 1 year ago in Delaware.
 >See:

 >http://www.janes.com/defence/editors/pentagon.html

 >for an article by Bill Sweetman.


Terry:

Thanks for this article. It seems strange that this matter seems
to be upon us again almost one year after an episode where
'thuds and booms' were heard across a four-state region. I
received a phone call from a Cincinnati researcher Charles
Stuart who reported that some booming sounds were heard last
week in West Chester, Ohio, described as if something was
hitting the side of a house.

Also, many people have described these noises oddly [such as
something hitting their walls], which makes one wonder if the
situation is tightly localized; not what you would expect with a
widespread disruption caused by aircraft - or even thunder.

At this time last year, the popular theory was 'FROST CRACKING'
to account for the booming sounds, as it was said that frozen
ice would shift and the cracking sounds startled many people.
Thus far, we haven't had any icy situations this time around.

Also, it seems hard to understand that some classified military
operation, as described in the article you passed along, would
be operational over residential areas.

Here are a number of other items relevant to sonic issues:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/DEFIANCE_SOUNDS.html
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/PortageIN.htm
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Butlerboomer.htm

Let's keep our ears open...
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/







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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:29:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:33:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


Jenny wrote:

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:45:12 +0000
 >.From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I was not directly involved in this case, but did coordinate the
 >>UFOIN investigation at the time and have met some of those
 >>involved. It is an impressive case and remains unsolved.

 >>I don't recall anything that connected it with the military. But
 >>it was the first time that police in the UK (possibly anywhere)
 >>treated a UFO case as a personal assault and launched a proper
 >>scene of crimes investigation. They were left as baffled as we
 >>were about what actually occurred.

 >>Steuart Campbell reckons it was a mirage of mercury or some such
 >>planet. I think that's a bit unlikely!


Hi Jenny,

Happy New Year to you!

Concerning the assult carried out on Bob Taylor, what were the
specific injuries that he suffered?

Were there any unusual medical anamolies picked on his injuries
at the Hospital?

Was there any Radar tracking of this object as  added
confirmation to the landing of such a vehicle?

What was the depth of the indentations in the ground?

Were there unusaully high traces of any substance at the site?

Did the 2 objects which appeared from the main object move in
sync with each other?

Were there any previous UFO sightings, prior to the incident
happenning?

Where is the location of the nearest Military Base from the
incident sight?

How remote is the area?

Were the military using any kind of ARV's at the time of 1979?

If so where would early testing of (UK) ARV's have taken place?

Have ARV's ever been used as weapons in any warzone?

Regard,s

Roy..







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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:48:32 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:37:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 03:34:58 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
...

 >>Could you please publish how you come to this fact, or point me
 >>to a site where your research into the Pleiades System is?

 >I would like you to tell me how you came to the conclusion why
 >the Pleiades System is and I quote from you:

 >>too young to support anything like life yet.

This is not the place to go into the lengthy science behind the
current conclusions and expectations that I stated and once
again I refer Roy to a good astronomy book plus some other
science. The url:

http://www.star.le.ac.uk/edu/stars/evolution.html

can also help.

If Roy has irrefutable evidence to the contrary of what I wrote
then I'm sure that scientists would like to hear and see this
and learn how life exists in the Pleiades contrary to our
current scientific conclusions and expectations.

Better still, if Roy can irrefutably produce intelligent
Pleiadian lifeforms then I'm sure that scientists will be very
interested to query this and find out why their conclusions and
expectations are wrong.

Getting to the Pleiades is currently way beyond us and
irrefutable contact with what has to be a much more
technologically advanced civilisation to get here could be a
very interesting experience.

I know that I can't produce anything that I've requested Roy to
do and until this is done I prefer the current scientific
conclusions and expectations that I stated.


Your research.....

Regards,

Roy..


Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa







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               Cydonian Imperative 2000: Mars Global Surveyor

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 02:16:03 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:43:56 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative 2000: Mars Global Surveyor


With 1999 over, the Mars Global Surveyor satellite, currently in
orbit around Mars, has completed its scheduled mapping phase,
and future plans for the spacecraft are nebulous.  Recently, the
MGS was redirected to Mars' southern hemisphere in an as-yet
unsuccessful search for the dead-on-arrival Mars Polar Lander.

This is a telling development; it demonstrates not only that the
MGS' camera resolution is sufficient to discern extremely fine-
scale detail on the Martian surface, but that the craft's camera
contractor, Malin Space Science Systems, has misled the public
as to the flexibility of the MGS Camera.  MSSS has maintained
that the MGS Camera is fixed to the spacecraft and unable to be
aimed at a given target on the surface.  While technically
accurate, the Mars Global Surveyor itself serves as the Camera's
base, which _can_ be positioned to effectively aim the Camera.

It is also worth noting that Malin Space Science Systems is a
private contractor for NASA, a tax-funded organization.  NASA's
agreement with MSSS is unprecedented in the history of the
American space program, in that Malin is granted "ownership" of
the MGS' images for a specified period.  Given MSSS's documented
misrepresentation (not confined to the paragraph above), it is
in the public's best interests to minimize MSSS' control of
valuable space science data.  The information gathered by the
Mars Global Surveyor is rightfully public domain, paid for by
tax money.

Of particular concern is Malin's continued dimissal of the
Cydonia region of Mars, where there are a number of anomalous
formations that demand future study.  With NASA's Mars program
in shambles, the Mars Global Surveyor remains our only
foreseeable means to research these formations.

The Society for Planetary SETI Research, for example, has
reached the conclusion that certain formations at Cydonia have
an arbitrarily low possibility of being random.  Whether we are
witnessing truly anomalous geology at work or alien artifacts
remains a compelling question that must--and can--be answered.

(SPSR's unprecedented, peer-reviewed work on the subject of
possible artificiality can be found in the book 'The Case for
the Face: Scientists Examine the Evidence for Alien Artifacts on
Mars'.  Mark Carlotto's 'The Martian Enigmas: A Closer Look'
[second edition] also demonstrates the reality of this mystery.)

Included is my letter to Malin Space Science Systems, which I'm
making public domain in the hope that others will write to
express interest in rephotographing Cydonia in the near future.

Right now, no one knows for sure if the Cydonian formations are
artificial or natural, but it is currently within our means to
make a more educated assessment than has previously been
possible.

Malin Space Science Systems can be reached at: info@msss.com.

--Mac Tonnies

####

Dear Malin Space Science Systems,

I am writing to urge you to have the Mars Global Surveyor take
additional photos of the Cydonia region as soon as technically
feasible.

An inquiry to NASA met with the rather astounding reply that the
MGS had already taken "pictures" [sic] of the so-called "Face,"
proving it to be a natural landform.  While I am open to this
possibility, the MGS's only picture of the Face did nothing of
the sort.  In fact, by confirming details predicted by Viking
imagery (and well presented in Dr. Mark Carlotto's book, _The
Martian Enigmas_), the April '98 image does more to strengthen
the Artificiality Hypothesis than dispose of it.

The recent repositioning of the MGS for searching for the downed
Mars Polar Lander has clearly helped falsify the notion that the
MGS is an entirely passive spacecraft, capable only of imaging
what is beneath it at a given time.  The flexibility exists to
reimage Cydonia with vigor.

Moreover, the presence of apparent ice in the region, as well as
other anomalies, certainly warrants a closer investigation.
While I certainly don't endorse any sort of "conspiracy" on the
part of MSSS or NASA, I do urge you to embrace the "Face" and
associated formations as the scientific enigmas they are, and
properly pursue them as such.

I welcome any information relevant to future Cydonia imaging
opportunities.

Sincerely,

####

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Mars: The Cydonian Imperative
an invitation only mailing list devoted to the immediate
implementation of manned Mars missions and the
democratization of space science.  This list is not affiliated
with any particular Mars advocacy group, and is intended to
be as informal as possible.

To contribute, send essays, harangues, URLs, and diatribes
to Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.

All material becomes "freeware" to be distributed to anyone
by anyone; all materials directed to Mac Tonnies are considered
public domain and may be included in a forthcoming digest
unless marked otherwise.  Intellectual copyright is respected
wherever specified.  No money is made from this list, and
subscription is free (and often unsolicited...)

To unsubscribe, just send a reply requesting to be taken off
the list.  To add additional recipient/s, please send me the
e-mail addresses of interested parties or individuals.

Useful websites:

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
The McDaniel Report: http://www.mcdanielreport.com
International Space Station:
http://shuttlenasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_







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                    Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 05:14:59 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'


 >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 12:26:47 EST
 >Subject: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >To: updates@globalserve.net


To Sean Jones and List

Here are some excerpts from the four pages on UFOs published in
the French paper "Liberation".

This is following my first announcement, in which I wrote:

 >Something new just happened again in the French media, The
 >influential French daily newspaper "Liberation" published a four
 >pages report on ufos, in its issue dated 25 and 26 december
 >1999. Its main features are:

 >A general survey of the ufo question, mildly favourable, even
 >open to the question of Roswell and subsequent secrecy (title:
 >"Tous fous d'ufos", meaning "All Crazy About UFOs") ;

 >An article presenting favourably the Cometa report, citing as
 >well the Sturrock Report, and the action of Laurance
 >Rockefeller. On the contratry, sociologist Pierre Lagrange is
 >quoted as being on the wrong track, with reference to his
 >article of July 21, 1999, which was violently opposed to the
 >Cometa report, and published in the same newspaper! (title "En
 >attendant ET", meaning 'Waiting for ET')

 >A one page interview with Robert Bigelow, quite favorable again.
 >(title 'The Space Cow-Bow').

 >Is this the beginning of a new approach in the French media,
 >which had been utterly skeptical in recent years, especially
 >since the disaster of the 'Alien Autopsy? That's what we will
 >see, during the coming months.

"Liberation" holds a rather special position in the French
press. Created in the wake of the student unrest of the sixties,
it has grown to become a major daily paper, "left of center",
and influential in intellectual and artistic circles.

The first article, "Tous fous d'Ufos", signed by Alain Leauthier
(who has made the trip to California and Nevada), is mildly
favourable, in sharp contrast with the previous negative
attitude of that paper, as well as other papers.

It begins with the usual ironical tone, but then it rapidly
changes its attitude, in a subtle manner.

The first topic is the belief in the arrival of the "Space
brothers" in 2001, promoted by Charles Spiegel and the Uranius
Academy of Science, at El cajon, California, who is portrayed as
an advocate of "delirious cosmos" ("cosmos en delire") but also
a "nice old man". But just after that the article says, without
any transition:

"As a few millions Americans, and even 42 % of college
graduates, Charles Spiegel asks not wether there are ufos having
already come to Earth, but "When are they coming back?". "

It remarks then that thousand of "normal citizens" have given a
contribution to Uranius, who are convinced that "the governments
and states don't tell the truth about ufos". A very smooth
introduction of the idea!

The article makes a very brief summary of the history of ufos,
beginning with the Kenneth Arnold case, positive but still
ambigous:

"The observation, very real, of Arnold, who is a sturdy fellow,
married and father of two girls, triggers a wave of
"spontaneous" testimonies in the same vein".

Then comes Roswell, sumed up in a very approximative way,
to say the least, such as in this surprising statement:

"The case will become polemic only in 1980 with the publication
of several books about "The Roswell Incident" and, later, the
diffusion... of a hoaxed film showing the autopsy of a pretended
extraterrestrial kept secretly at the base".

But the case itself is not completely discarded, something quite
new in the French press.

The article goes on, just as fast, through the history of
official denials in the United States, from Blue Book to the
recent CIA study, only to conclude that many remain skeptical
(not about ufos, but about the official stand!) It then notes:

"...in Europe and in France, public powers have demonstrated
relatively more transparence", with the creation in France of
Gepan, later Sepra, which has published a few strong cases, such
as Trans-en-Provence.

Then comes the second article, "Waiting for ET", which has some
nice words, at last, for the Cometa Report published last summer
in France  ("Ufos and Defense: What must we be prepared for?",
soon to be published in English). It begins by quoting General
Bernard Norlain, former Director of the Institute of Higher
National Defense Studies (IHEDN): "The ufo problem cannot be
eliminated by simple caustic and offhand witty words".

It mentions other important names: Andre Lebeau, former President
of CNES (National Center for Space Studies), who prefaced the report,
and General Denis Letty of the Air Force, and it stresses the main
position of the group:

  "To the great displeasure of some, such as ufologist Pierre
  Lagrange (Liberation of July 21, 1999), the experts note in
  conclusion to their study: "The extraterrestrial hypothesis is
  by far the best scientific hypothesis...".

To better measure the change of tone here, enough is to quote
the subtitle of that article by Lagrange, of July 21:

"Between "X Files" and "Independance Day", the report of
"experts" published by "VSD" feeds disinformation on Ufos by
ridiculing the subject. But ufologists are far from being all
crazy people".

Quite a change of tone!

The article further stresses that serious people are interested:

"But high level scientists, such as Peter Sturrock, professor of
applied physics at the Stanford university, enter the field now
and give the trend for the coming years...".

The report of Liberation still holds another pretty big surprise
with a full page article on Robert Bigelow. Again, on the
surface, he is presented with a grain of salt, starting with
this title "The Space Cow-Boy", but the text takes him quite
seriously, beginning with the rather frightening UFO encounter
experienced by his grandfather near Reno, when Robert was
twelve.

The article then presents favourably the National Institute for
Discovery Science (Nids) created by Robert Bigelow:

"Thanks to a hot line, Nids gathers hundreds, even thousands of
testimonies telling of the presence of ufos, of mysterious animal
mutilations, of unexplained physical perturbations".

Unfortunately, it then falls back on the offhand style
of the paper, which takes it easy with facts:

"Or else, the more or less ephemerous abductions, the famous
"abductions" (in English  in the text), very popular in the
United States: no less than three millions of Americans,
according to an official poll, say that they have been victims
and give very structured tales of their forced stay with ETs".
(!)

Well, in spite of that sort of blunder (which will be exposed by
skeptics, no doubt), this report should give some hope to the
poor French, battered ufologists. Will they see the end of their
crossing of the desert? For the better or for the worse? It is
still too early to say. After all, this report is just a sort of
"cultural" essay, written entirely by one journalist,
apparently. But he had certainly a green light for that.

Gildas Bourdais







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                   Close Encounters Across The Great Wall

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 02:56:33 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:31:18 -0500
Subject: Close Encounters Across The Great Wall


Greetings list -

From: http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/01/07/text/p6s2.html


Close encounters across the Great Wall

Chinese scientists seek funding to search for ET radio signals
amid growing reports of UFO sightings.

By Kevin Platt, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor


Long isolated by great walls of xenophobia, China is curiously
entering the new century by trying to build bridges of
communication with extraterrestrials.

Amid a wave of UFO sightings and the rise of a generation bred
on "Star Wars" and "The X-Files," Chinese space scientists are
mapping out plans to find and explore life beyond earth.

"China is planning to build a gigantic radio telescope that will
search for signs of and signals from extraterrestrial
intelligence," says Zhao Fuyuan, an astronomer at the
prestigious Chinese Academy of Sciences. "The telescope will
work like the SETI [US-based Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence] program ... by tracking radio signals" from the
cosmos, says Mr Zhao.

The academy has drawn up its own SETI plan and is awaiting
funding to begin construction at a time when citizens of other
planets seem to have launched an invasion of the Middle Kingdom:
Chinese newspapers and broadcasters, even the normally staid,
state-run Chinese Central TV, are stepping up reports of close
encounters here with aliens.

"As they become more market-oriented, Chinese editors, like
their American counterparts, are finding that aliens and UFO
sightings sell newspapers," says a Beijing-based diplomat who
tracks the local press.

Astronomer Zhao says that "Chinese people are becoming better
educated and have more leisure time to explore their own
interests, and science is increasingly popularized in the
press."

"These two trends," he adds, "are both boosting coverage of
phenomena on the fringes of science like UFOs." Zhao says the
Academy of Sciences recently issued a circular authorizing all
its members for the first time to talk to the press about UFOs.

"The academy hopes that more media reports about and growing
interest in extraterrestrial life will convince the government
to invest more money in the overall space program," he says.

China's creation of a SETI operation is only one step in an
ambitious 21st-century plan to explore the universe.

"China's recent success in launching its first unmanned space
capsule is catapulting the country toward recognition as a major
space power," says a Western official. "The Chinese think they
can one day catch up to the US as one of the world's top space
powers," he adds.

"Within the next two decades, China wants to build a reusable
launcher like the US space shuttle and help colonize the moon,"
says a Chinese space researcher who asked not to be identified.

Back on Earth, more and more urban Chinese are reporting
sighting feidie, or flying dishes. The first videotape of a
purported UFO in Chinese airspace was recently aired on a news
program in southwest China.

If anyone here is uniquely situated to handle China's first
communication with an alien race, it is probably Sun Shili.

Mr. Sun, who was once an official translator for Chairman Mao
Zedong and is now the head of the Chinese UFO Research
Organization, says there were more than 3000 sightings of
unidentified flying objects across China in 1999.

Sun says he had his first brush with an alien back in 1969, when
Mao sent him to work in the barren fields of impoverished
Jiangxi Province "to learn from the peasants."

"While planting rice, I saw a glowing sphere flying oval-shaped
orbits between the ground and the sky, but at first I thought it
must have been a Soviet spy ship," says Sun.

It was only after Mao's death in 1976 ended China's isolation that Sun
began reading Western books on UFOs and realized he might have
witnessed a craft from farther away than Moscow or even Mars, he says.

Sun says membership in his UFO group has skyrocketed to 40,000
Chinese in the last five years, and adds the organization
includes professors, students, engineers, and even Communist
Party officials.

While he concedes his UFO group still has no solid evidence of a
single contact with extraterrestrial life, Sun says he has a gut
feeling that "aliens are living among us disguised as humans."

Astronomer Zhao says he is much more skeptical about the recent
rash of UFO sightings. "Most of the people who thought they
witnessed a UFO probably saw the reflection of airplane fuel
traces reflected in the sunlight or an atmospheric mirage," Zhao
explains.

"The universe contains so many stars that it's hard to believe
life arose only in the solar system," says Zhao. But adds the
immense size of the cosmos also makes the possibility remote
that aliens have ever touched down in China.

Yet he adds that "Chinese history dating back to the Shang
Dynasty [in 2000 BC], when records were carved onto tortoise
shells ... [includes] accounts of what could be UFO sightings."

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:15:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:28:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:48:32 +1100
 >>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>This is not the place to go into the lengthy science behind the
 >>current conclusions and expectations that I stated

Hi Bill,

Well hold on a second , what do you mean this isn't the place to
go into lengthy discussions concerning the Pleiades? What is
this list all about? Have you seen how long some threads have
been going on here? With the greatest respect to you Bill, but
you came out with a rather big statement on the Pleiades as far
as I am concerned, which was and again I repeat: >>too young to
support anything like life yet.

Now when you put this on the list my impression was that you had
spent some time researching about the Pleiades system? Now that
I have asked you to produce YOUR OWN RESEARCH into the Pleiades,
you keep referring me to a URL which shows me a well taken
picture of the Pleiades? How has your research proven to you
that the Pleiades is >>too young to support anything like life
ye>, could you please publish your findings on the list as I am
sure others will be interested to read it, failing that please
point me to a web site where I can read your research?

 >>If Roy has irrefutable evidence to the contrary of what I wrote
 >>then I'm sure that scientists would like to hear and see this
 >>and learn how life exists in the Pleiades contrary to our
 >>current scientific conclusions and expectations.

 >Now hold again Bill, I wasn't the one who came out with the statement
 >about the Pleiades. This isn't case of me having <q>irrefutable
 >evidence>on life exsisting in the Pleiades, you have put on the list
 >that it is unable to support any life, again how did you reach this
 >conclusion and where is your evidence?  Do you know how many
 >Scientists agree with each other?

 >>Better still, if Roy can irrefutably produce intelligent
 >>Pleiadian lifeforms then I'm sure that scientists will be very
 >>interested to query this and find out why their conclusions and
 >>expectations are wrong.

 >God you certainly put all your egg's in one basket dont you! You are
 >now playing a game of avoid the original question and turn the
 >question around. As above.

 >>Getting to the Pleiades is currently way beyond us and
 >>irrefutable contact with what has to be a much more
 >>technologically advanced civilisation to get here could be a
 >>very interesting experience.

Please print your findings:

So no <q>

 >technologically advanced civilisation
 >has ever been here?

 >>I know that I can't produce anything that I've requested Roy to
 >>do and until this is done I prefer the current scientific
 >>conclusions and expectations that I stated.

Well Bill I suggest we leave at that then, only next time you
make such a big statement, why not point people to your research
site so they read up on what you have discovered, and then they
might possibly go along with some of what you have to say...

 >>Your research.....

You were never a politician was you? <g>







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                           Re: Voyager Newsletter

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:30:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:39:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Voyager Newsletter


Hi All,

Is James Easton on this list as a subscriber or not? Only he
posted his Voyager Newsletter on here, of which I had asked some
questions relating to certain statements he published, and yet
have had no reply?

If James is out there I wonder if he could find the time to
answer the following questions concerning what he wrote in
Voyager Newsletter Issue No 9.

J.E. >>Contrary to Pope's statement, there were no queries
 >>concerning the MoD's policy or views on 'UFOs' (which are well
 >>testified).

Q:Please list in some great detail exactly what you feel are the
MoD's policy and views on UFO's?

*************
RENDLESHAM

JE:>>Whatever additional 'phenomena' was perceived by Halt and his
  >>team has to be set in this expanded context. They were looking
  >>for a 'UFO', thought they had found one and everything else was
  >>'thinking UFO'.

Q:What is your explaination of the additional 'phenomena' perceived? by
  Halt and his team?

JE: >>Another former serviceman recently told me of the night-time
  >>helicopter manoeuvres by Britain's elite Special Air Service
  >>(SAS) and recalled one particular incident:
  >>"They did not make a lot of sound, but they came in fast. When
  >>they departed, they turned their lights back on and went off in
  >>separate directions. We did exercises with the SAS all the
  >>time".

Q:Please can you give anymore details as to what part of the
Army  this former serviceman held service? I would like to know
the Battalion or regiment of this soldier where "We did
exercises with the SAS all the time"?

JE:>>He summarised, "RAF Bentwaters was a very hot area for many
  >>types of military training actions".

Q:From this answer I take it this person was an Officer of some
kind who was privy to training details within such Elite Groups.
Was this person an Officer or  serving Non Rank?

JE: >>When a 'UFO' case meets the world of 'special ops' and 'black
  >>projects', I'm reminded that someone once wisely pointed out to
  >>me, "the more you know, the more you realise you don't know".

If this is to be the case, would just some of these ' Special
Ops & Black Projects, be in the employment of H.M. Goverment? If
the answer is no, then who pays these guys to do what they  do?

Regards,

Roy..











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             Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'

From: Dave Bower <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:37:52 -0500
Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'


 >Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:29:26 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >Subject: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >I was very disappointed on seeing the brief mention on the
 >program 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' on TLC (The
 >Learning channel) of the Edward's AFB UFO story.

 >No wonder the public has very little or no information on a
 >subject like this when it is given about 2 or 3 minutes of
 >coverage.

 >The program gave more coverage to skeptics such as Joe Nickel
 >making it sound as if people who experience a situation such as
 >this are crazy or even worse.

 >Another program that can be thrown in the trash can as soon as
 >possible.

 >Let's get some serious information out to the general public on
 >such matters and not quick information as quick as a blink of
 >an eye...

Hi Chris and all,


It could all simply be down to what is perceived to be of public
interest.

I'll give you an example:

My brother has been a fan of Peanuts (Charlie Brown and Snoopy)
for well over thirty years. Charles M. Schultz the creator
recently published his last strip after 48 years. Never to be
seen again a new Charlie Brown and Snoopy cartoon strip. Most
people couldn't give a s**t.

My brother cried out about the world media not picking up on
this historic moment, he didn't understand that his obsession
did not reflect the worlds interest i.e: war, climate change,
politics. Well lets face it, Charlie Brown was after all a
cartoon.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is until someone can come
up with some solid evidence on UFOs or abductions this whole
thing will remain in the end of the news comedy slot along with
the two headed lamb and 'oh my God... NASA's lost another one'.

Big yuks...

Dave.







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                    Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:03:18 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:43:20 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'


 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:57:54 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >To Sean Jones and List

Many thanks for taking the time and effort to translate this
Gildas. I for one appreciate your efforts.

 >Here are some excerpts from the four pages on UFOs published in
 >the French paper "Liberation".

 >This is following my first announcement, in which I wrote:

 >>Something new just happened again in the French media, The
 >>influential French daily newspaper "Liberation" published a four
 >>pages report on ufos, in its issue dated 25 and 26 december
 >>1999. Its main features are:

<snip>

 >Well, in spite of that sort of blunder (which will be exposed by
 >skeptics, no doubt), this report should give some hope to the
 >poor French, battered ufologists. Will they see the end of their
 >crossing of the desert? For the better or for the worse? It is
 >still too early to say. After all, this report is just a sort of
 >"cultural" essay, written entirely by one journalist,
 >apparently. But he had certainly a green light for that.

 >Gildas Bourdais

One could wonder if the general French _attitude_ towards UFOs
is changing, if an article like this gets published by a
national newspaper? Perhaps the French are ahead of the game in
public acceptance that we are not alone?

Again many thanks for taking the time to translate this interesting
article Gildas.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 1

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com >
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:16:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:13:37 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 1

(by way of John Hayes <ufoinfo@ukgateway.net>)

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 1
January 6, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

CHINA HAS THE FIRST UFO
OF THE NEW MILLENIUM

      UFOs kicked off the New Millenium with the
surprise appearance of a daylight disc on New
Year's Day.
      At about 6:30 a.m. Beijing time on Saturday,
January 1, 2000, a silver-gray UFO appeared
over the Great Wall of China.  As it hovered, it
was captured by Cable News network (CNN)
TV cameras and broadcasted live in the USA.
      Eyewitness M. Lamb was watching the CNN
coverage "when CNN showed a shot of the Great
Wall of China at sunrise...When they cut to the shot,
there was a gray orb floating over the wall.  Then it
floated to the right, then up.  Then they (CNN) cut
away from the shot without any explanation of the
floating object.  It was silver and appeared to float or
glide without any means of propulsion."  (Email
Interview)
      "In Pusalu, a patch of struggling corn and bean
farms 30 miles (48 kilometers) from Beijing,
villagers believe cosmic forces were at play on
December 11 (1999)."
      "As they tell it, an object the size of a person
shimmering with golden light moved slowly up into
the sky from the surrounding mountains."
      "'It was so beautiful, sort of yellow,' villager
Wang Cunqiao said.  'It was like someone flying
up to heaven.'"
      Mrs. Wang told the Chinese media that the
mysterious yellow object rose above the red
roof of Pusalu's one-story village hall.
      The Journal of UFO Research is China's
"bimonthly magazine--circulation 400,000--devoted
to UFO research.  The conservative, state-run media
report UFO sightings.  UFO buffs claim support from
eminent scientists and liaisons with the secretive
military, giving their work a scientific sheen of
responsibility."
      "'Some of these sightings are real, some are
fake, and with others it's unclear,'said Shen
Shituan, a real rocket scientist, president of Beijing
Aerospace and honorary director of the China UFO
Research Association.  'All these phenomena are
worth researching.'"
      "Research into UFOs will help spur new forms
of high-speed travel, unlimited sources of energy
and faster-growing crops, claims Sun Shili, president
of the government-approved UFO Research
Association (membership 50,000)."  (See the
Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for January 3, 2000,
"Aliens or Illusions?" page 5A.)

CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN BY
THREE IN VITEBSK, BELARUS

      A cigar-shaped UFO appeared the day before
Christmas in the eastern European nation of Belarus.
      On Friday, December 24, 1999, at 8:44 a.m., Oleg
V. Kirillov, 29, and two other men saw the UFO in
Yurievka Gorka, a suburb of Vitebsk.
      Kirillov described the UFO as "a cigar-shaped
object, color blue-red, the color of a cloud at sunset.
bright like a cloud but without any rays or a trail.
Its size was about three meters (10 feet) by five
meters (17 feet).  The front portion was rounded
and symmetrical.  The rear portion seemed
blurred."
      "There was not any noise at any time.  After
three or four seconds, the object suddenly vanished.
There was no impression of a real solid object..
It was more like an image, maybe semi-transparent."
      Vitebsk is a large city in Belarus approximately
320 kilometers (200 miles) north of Minsk.  (Many
thanks to Errol Bruce-Knapp for forwarding this
report.)

UFO FLAP BREAKS OUT IN
NEW ZEALAND

      "UFO fever is threatening to break out after a
rash of calls to police about fast-moving, coloured
lights in the sky north of the city," i.e. Auckland,
located on the North Island.
      "Police received six calls over two hours from
several different areas north of Auckland on
Saturday night (December 25, 1999) but have
been unable to explain the lights."
      "One caller said the lights moved 400 metres
(1,320 feet) in less than two seconds whilst two
others said they moved up and down in the sky
very fast."
      "Inspector Barry Smalley of the Police North
Communications Centre said there was something
in the sky, but no one knows quite what."
      "'There's something there.  Because of the path
it was travelling, it may have been something
coming through the atmosphere.'"
      "'It's another mystery.  We'll have to get Mulder
and Scully (fictional heroes of the TV show X-Files)
on it.'"
      "The first call to police was at 9:30 p.m., twenty
minutes after the first sighting from Raglan of what
appeared to be a green flare when looking in the
direction of Auckland.  The flare died before it hit
the sea."
      "Further reports had the lights moving north."
      "The last sighting was about 11:36 p.m. from
Tinopai, in Northland, where a resident reported
'huge lights' over the hills due north.  The lights
were reported to have moved about 400 metres
in two seconds."
      "Two more strange lights were reported
'going straight up and down sky, intensely
bright and intensely red,' looking across Kaipara
Harbour.  The lights were reported to be darting
about in the sky."  (See The Press of Auckland,
N.Z. for December 29, 1999, "Night Lights
Mystery," page 2.  Many thanks to Steve Wilson
Sr. for forwarding this newspaper article.)

UFOs RING IN THE NEW YEAR
IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

      On Wednesday, December 29, 1999, at 2:40 p.m.,
Bryan C., 42, "had returned from the grocery store"
and had just arrived at his home near La Jolla
Hermosa Avenue in La Jolla, California, he reported,
"When I heard a helicopter to the north."
      "As I always do when I see or hear a plane or
helicopter, I looked as it approached and noticed a
white object sitting off to its eastern side.  At first I
thought it was a reflection of the sun.  Then I thought
it might be a bird.  But whatever it was, it matched
speed and altitude as it paralleled the helicopter."
      "After it went overhead, I continued to watch the
two (craft) and stared intently at the object.  The
object stayed the same until ten seconds, when it
veered towards the east and away from the helicopter."
      "The helicopter made a steep turn towards the
west as the object made a curving motion and
disappeared into the horizon's brightness."
      "The object was about 2.5 to 3 feet in length.
It was a milky white orb, and some of the edges
were slightly translucent.  It was shaped like a star
with dozens of spikes or points in a spherical
pattern.  It also looked like a white rose with many
pointed petals.  It was not illuminated from within
but seemed to have a constant luminosity."
      Bryan added that he had an impression that
the helicopter was in pursuit of the object.  This,
he added, was unusual because it was not a police
or a military helicopter but had a civilian livery or
color scheme.  (Email Form Report)
      On January 2, 2000, at 9:32 p.m., Michael R.
and two other witnesses spotted three silent but
unusual bright UFOs over Lancaster, California
(population 97,291), a city 50 miles (80 kilometers)
north of Los Angeles.
      Mike was "about one mile west of Route 14
and Avenue J" in Lancaster when the UFOs
"suddenly appeared on a relatively flat trajectory
from the north, heading south."
      He described them as "three very brilliant
flourescent green dots" which "followed the same
trajectory until turning into tails, then turning yellow
in color before disappearing almost simultaneously."
      Mike said he and the other two witnesses saw
the overflight from three separate locations "within a
block of each other.  It was so bright as to call
our attention to the side of our field of view.  No
sound, no explosion at the change of color or the
disappearance.  Clear skies.  No discernible wind."
(Email Form Report)

MOTORIST SEES A UFO
NORTH OF BANGOR, MAINE

      On Wednesday, December 29, 1999, around
6:30 p.m., a man was driving on Interstate Highway
1-95 in Maine, from Millinocket to Belfast, when
he spotted a bright UFO hovering in the sky in
Old Town, just north of Bangor (population 33,181).
      The witness was driving along "when something
caught his attention in the nighttime sky."
      "He said it was a very bright light," the witness's
wife reported.  "He didn't think much of it since the
Bangor International Airport was only 10 miles away.
That is, until he saw it move ever so slowly, then it
shot across the sky and out of sight at a much faster
rate of speed than any aircraft could fly.  Then it was
gone."
      "When he walked through the door and told me
this story, he was upset because he was alone in
the car and wished I could have been there to see it."
      Bangor is on I-95 approximately 132 miles
(211 kilometers) northeast of Portland.  (Email
Form Report)

Y2K: MILLENIUM TURNS
QUIETLY EVERYWHERE
BUT JERUSALEM

      Well, it was a pretty quiet millenium
after all.  Except for a tiny handful, computers
didn't crash.  Jesus Christ didn't land on the
Mount of Olives.  Madame Pele didn't set off
a volcano on Bishop Street in Honolulu.
      It was all pretty quiet.
      Not to say that there weren't some strange
moments.  Such as in mid-morning here in
Duluth on December 31, 1999, just about the
time it was hitting midnight in Auckland, N.Z.
All at once, the PA system at work began
playing a familiar tune--Scott Joplin's ragtime
hit The Entertainer, from a century ago.
      Laughing, I turned to fellow worker Jim
Englund and said, "Y2K's working already.
We're going back through time to 1900."
      I was tempted to run down to the lobby
newstand, pick up a copy of the Duluth Herald
and see if Lord Roberts had made to to Spion
Kop yet.
      But in Jerusalem, it was more of the same old
same old.
     "'The Temple Mount will be the most sensitive
place in the world Friday,' Israeli Cabinet Minister
Haim Ramon says.  'We have to be ready for
everything though it's going to be difficult to
monitor everyone.'"
      "Nearly 3,000 police will be deployed in and
around the Temple Mount along with Israeli Special
Forces and special 'millenium units' made up of
police and agents from Israel's spy agencies."
      "Nearly 400 video cameras have been
installed in an attempt to identify possible
terrorists."
     "Israel has already deported nearly 60 Christians
this year, including 34 Americans who planned to
carry out violent attacks or posed other unspecified
security threats, officials say.  Some become so
enraptured on their visit to the Holy Land that they
assume the identity of a biblical character such as
Jesus, Moses or Elijah."
      "Israel's Givat Shaul Mental Health Center expects
the number of people suffering from the disorder, dubbed
the Jerusalem Syndrome by psychiatrists, to increase
to 300 during the millenium's opening year, up from the
annual average of 150.  Police say they have arrested
up to four people each day for 'weird behavior.'"
      "Among some of the recent arrests:"
      "A British man, dressed only in a loincloth, who said
he was John the Baptist and yelled, 'Prepare ye the way
of the Lord!' atop the Mount of Olives."
(Editor's Comment:  Big deal!  If this guy showed up in
Vandavasi, India, people would automatically assume
he was an itinerant sadhu from the Javadi Hills.)
      "A California woman, dressed in only a blue bed
sheet, who said she was the Virgin Mary and had been
commanded by God to declare it was time to rebuild
the Temple."
(Editor's Comment:  Good thing it wasn't a white sheet.
Rabbi Meir Lau might've thought she was Ku Klux.)
      "A Michigan man, carrying a pair of small cardboard
wings, who said he had been commanded by Jesus
to fly over Jerusalem."
(Editor's Comment: Sounds pretty harmless to me.
But then, I'm not a Zionist.)
      "'We are here to save the place from the crazies,'
says Israeli Army Sgt. Matan, 21, one of 48 Israeli
soldiers who began deploying Wednesday at the
Temple Mount.  Israeli soldiers are not allowed to
give their last name.  'There aren't many here, but
one is enough.'" (See USA Today for December 30,
1999, "Israeli authorities bulk up forces," page 8A.)
      "Outside Jerusalem, hundreds of police and
park wardens surrounded a field in the northern
Israeli city of Megiddo, where, according to the New
Testament Book of Revelations, the final battle of
Armageddon will take place.  Hundreds of Christian
pilgrims have been visiting the site daily in anticipation
of the battle."
      "Police say several dozen Christian extremists,
most of whom have gone into hiding to avoid being
jailed or deported by Israeli officials have been
illegally distributing pamphlets titled Earth's Final
Warning at the homes of Jews, Muslims and other
Christians."
(Editor's Comment:  Gone into hiding?  Gee, just
like Anne Frank.)
      "They also have been preaching in hostels,
homes and cafes that President Clinton and Pope
John Paul II are Antichrists, and have even urged
people to prepare for the showdown of Armageddon."
(Editor's Comment:  This is terrorism?  Sounds like
a typical revival meeting in Coushatta, Louisiana.)
      "But one of nearly a dozen extremists, some
of whom were interviewed behind locked doors and
refused to be photographed, said they are planning
to do anything violent if Christ does not return soon.
Most say they would attempt to remain in Israel or
the Middle East to await his eventual return."
      "'We are not proclaiming any violence or
aggression,' said Karin Houwers, 28, of the
Netherlands, who, with two others, leads a nightly
walking tour of Jerusalem to explain their Biblical
principles.  'Those who are saying these things
are deeply misguided.'"  (See USA Today for
December 31, 1999, "'Clock is ticking,' and Israel
readies for stroke of midnight," page 3A.)
      "One man, rmed with a six-inch knife, came
ready to fight Satan in the biblical Armageddon."
      "Another, carrying Bibles and religious tracts,
hoped to fly to heaven by jumping off a church
tower on the Mount of Olives."
      "And a third, holding lighted candles and
pre-printed tickets, invited Jews at the Western
Wall to 'board the train to the new (heavenly)
Jerusalem."
      "But neither the train nor the devil showed up.
And the priest who runs the church refused to
give the man the key to the tower.  Instead,
all three were arrested and deported over the
weekend."
(Editor's Comment:  Yes, another great victory
over terrorism.)
      "'All was peaceful in Israel,' a police statement
said, 'Thankfully, there were no troubles--and
no Armageddon.'"
      "While most Christian pilgrims said they were
treated well by ultra-Orthodox Jews, others
complained that religious Jews mimicked their
prayers, called them 'fanatics' and even cursed
at them as they retraced the traditional steps of
Jesus along Jerusalem's Via Dolorosa, or Way
of the Cross."
      "Religious Jews, the ultra-Orthodox Israeli
newspaperYated Neeman said, fear that the
pilgrims will turn the Jewish state into 'a vast
center for Christianity.'"
      "'We wish the Christians would take their
religion and crosses and go back to their
churches,' said Abraham Lowenstein, 23, an
ultra-Orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, N.Y.,
surrounded by six other religious Jews who
nodded in agreement.  'We don't know much
about Christians, but what we've seen we
don't like."
      "The feeling appears to be deeply
embedded.  A Gallup poll of 479 Israelis,
conducted last month (December 1999) by
the International Fellowship of Christians
and Jews, showed:"
      "75 percent of Israeli Jews could not
identify the date of Christmas,"
      "64 percent did not have a single
Christian friend,"
      "62 percent had never met a Christian,"
      "18 percent thought Christians were
interested primarily in converting Jews,"
      "17 percent see Christians coming to
Israel this year as a threat to the Jewish
state."  (See USA Today for January 3,
2000, "Christians fear that extremists
poisoned mood," page 5A.)

from the UFO Files...

1815: SPAIN'S MYSTERIOUS
           MOUNT MONCAYO

      Like Mount Shasta in California, Mount Moncayo
in northern Spain has a legend of strange caverns
underground, complete with glittering cities.  And
some of these tales have much in common with
contemporary reports of alien abduction.
      Mount Moncayo is on the border of the Spanish
provinces of Castilla and Aragon, located about
100 kilometers (60 miles) west of Zaragoza and
200 kilometers (120 miles) northeast of Madrid.
The mountain is 2,332 meters (7,695 feet) high
and looms over the nearby city of Soria.
      The people of Soria have many stories about
strange disappearances on the mountain.  One
of these took place in the early Nineteenth
Century, after the Napoleonic wars (my date of
1815 is a guesstimate--J.T.), and it involved a
shepherd in his 20s named Gregorio Murillo.
      Murillo "following some stray of his flock,
penetrated into the mouth of one of those caves
whose entrances are covered by thick growths
of bushes and whose outlets no man has
ever seen."
      "Going on along that cavern, he had come
at last to vast subterranean galleries lighted by
a fitful, fantastic splendour shed from the
phosphorescence in the rocks, which there were
great boulders of quartz crystallized into a
thousand strange fantastic forms.  (my emphasis--
J.T.)  The floor, the vaulted ceiling and the walls
of those immense halls, the work of nature, seemed
variegated like the richest marble; but the veins
which crossed them were of gold and silver, and
among those shining veins, as if encrusted in the
rock, were seen jewels, a multitude of precious
stones of all colors and sizes."
      "No noise of the outer world reached the
depth of that weird cavern; the only perceptible
sounds were, at intervals, the prolonged and
pitiful groans of the air which blew through that
enchanted labyrinth, a vague roar of subterranean
fires furious in their prison (my emphasis--J.T.),
and murmurs of running water which flowed on
not knowing whither they went."
      "The shepherd, alone and lost in that immensity,
wandered I know not how many hours without
finding any outlet, until at last he chanced upon
the source of a spring whose murmur he had heard."
      "This broke from the ground like a miraculous
fountain, a leap of foam-covered water that fell in an
exquisite cascade, singing a silver song as it slipped
away through the crannies in the rocks."
      "About him grew plants he had never seen, some
with wide thick leaves, and others delicate and long
like floating ribbons.  Half hidden in that humid
foliage were running about a number of estraordinary
creatures, some of them manlike, some reptilian,
or both at once  (my emphasis--J.T.)"
      "There, darting in all directions, running across
the floor in the form of repugnant, hunchbacked
dwarves (aliens?) scrambling up the walls, running
along...So there they were keeping stored up in
heaps all manner of rare and precious things.
There were jewels of inestimable worth; chains
and necklaces of peals and exquisite gems,
golden jars of classic form, full of rubies; chiseled
cups; armor richly wrought; coins with images
and superscriptions that it is no longer possible
to recognize or decipher...And all glittered together,
flashing out such vivid sparks of light and color
that it seemed as if the whole hoard were on fire."
      Immediately Murillo dipped his hands into the
mounds of jewels, gasping as the cool stones
trickled past his fingers.  And then he paused,
the short hairs on the back of his neck bristling.
He experienced a sudden sense of dread, of a
lurking doom that was growing closer and closer.
      All at once, he heard the pealing of the bell
in the monastery of Nuestra Senora del Moncayo.
"On hearing the bell, which was ringing the Ave
Maria, the shepherd fell to his knees, calling
on the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ."
      "And instantly, without knowing the means
nor the way, he found himself on the outside of
the mountain, near the road that leads to the
village, thrown out on a footpath and overwhelmed
by a great bewilderment as if he had just been
startled out of a dream." (my emphasis--J.T.)
      Disoriented, Murillo stumbled back down the
mountain road to Soria.  "When he came back
to the village, he was as pale as death; he had
surprised the secret of the gnomes; he had
breathed their poisonous atmosphere, and he
paid for his rashness with his life.  But before he
died he related marvelous things."
      It's a shame the townspeople did not keep
more accurate contemporary records of this
strange incident.  I wonder--did he die of
"breathing their poisonous air?"  Or did the
shepherd die of radiation sickness brought
on by his exposure to those strange giant
crystals in the heart of Mount Moncayo?
(See Romantic Legends of Spain by Gustavo
Adolfo Becqer, Thomas Y. Crowell & Co.,
New York, N.Y. 1909, pages 199 to 202.)

ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA:
      Australian ufologist Bill Chalker, author of
The Oz files--The Australian UFO Story, had
some corrections for last week's article, "A
Century of UFOs" in UFO Roundup, volume 4,
number 36.
      "1900 - Hanging Rock!  Let's keep this affair
where it belongs--an enduring and haunting piece
of fiction.  Unlcess there's information I don't
know about, this story never happened.  It is
fiction, exquisite fiction penned by Joan Lindsay
in her wonderful novel Picnic at Hanging Rock
(Penguin Books, 1967) and then it was a great
film (1980) directed by Peter Weir."
(Editor's Comment:  Janet Bord mentions the
Miranda McKay/Irma Leopold/Hanging Rock case
in one of her recent UFO books.  But I think Bill
Chalker is right on this one.  There is no mention
of any "missing girls" case in the Melbourne Argus
for February 1900.)
      "The only cross-shaped mystery I recollect
Lismore (N.S.W.) being associated with was of a
glowing "cross" that titillated locals around 1978."
(Editor's Comment:  Again Bill is right.  The date
1918 is Unsolved Mysteries of the Twentieth
Century is probably a typo.)
      Also, Frederick Valentich's middle name
is Paul, not Michael.
      And the Knowles family had their harrowing
UFO experience of January 1988 in the state of
Western Australia, not South Australia.

      Now that Y2K is over, we can kick back and
relax and watch that hilarious new situation
comedy on CNN--The New Hampshire Primary.
      But don't return your Spam and beans to the
supermarket just yet.  The next Apocalypse is
due in May.  Edgar Cayce (1874-1945), the
prominent New Age psychic, forecast that Earth's
axis would shift during the year 2000.  Fllorida
would end up where Greenland is now and vice
versa.  Some people think the massive destruction
will occur on May 5 or May 17, 2000 when the
sun, the moon and five planets will be in perfect
alignment with Earth for the first time since 1962.
We shall see.
      In the meantime, we'll be back next week
with more UFO and paranormal news from around
the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes
home--UFO Roundup."  Enjoy the New Millenium!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or
in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.

*********************************************************

IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------

http://www.thehungersite.com

Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.
There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!

*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>

UFO Roundup: http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin
and AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences
also available, plus archives of Filer's Files.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 7

                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 16:54:15 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 23:37:32 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:40:02 +1100
 >From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:02:48 +0000
 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:08:00 +1100
 >>>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>I also add the fact that the Pleiades are too young to support
 >>>>anything like life yet.

 >>>>Bill Alford


 >>Hi Bill,

 >>Could you please publish how you come to this fact, or point me
 >>to a site where your research into the Pleiades System is?

 >You can find this in good astronomy books. The Pleiades, or
 >Messier object 45 (see the url
 >http://www.galaxyphoto.com/jwm45.jpg) is the brightest, nearest
 >and most famous young open star cluster in the constellation of
 >Taurus. It consists of many hundreds of bright, hot blue young
 >stars no more than about 10 million years old about 400 light
 >years from Earth that were all formed at the same time within a
 >large cloud of interstellar dust and gas. Compare this to the
 >Sun, a medium-sized, yellow medium-hot star in the middle of its
 >life which began about 4.6 billion years ago. The Pleiades star
 >nursery has been recognised since ancient times. Seven of the
 >brightest stars are quite easy to see with the unaided eye and
 >bear the names of the Seven Sisters, the daughters of Atlas (see
 >the url http://www.ras.ucalgary.ca/~gibson/pleiades/). The blue
 >haze that accompanies them is light reflected from the particles
 >in a cloud of cold gas and dust that the Pleiades formed from.
 >It appears blue because these tiny interstellar particles
 >scatter blue light more efficiently than the longer wavelengths
 >of red light and it is streaky because the particles have been
 >aligned by magnetic fields between the stars.


Dear Everyone:

As a little tike, maybe ten years old, if that, the very first
sight through my Edmund Scientific three inch reflector was the
Seven Sisters.

I looked at it for more than three hours, marveling at the
beauty of the sight; a cluster of stars, nestled in a cloud of
blue/white nebulosity.  Perhaps the word "marveled" is
inadequate.  I saw the entire universe in the image in the
eyepiece.  It was the beginning of a life of looking at the sky
and seeing overwhelming beauty.

I envy those who can look and see the laws of physics, who see
in science, the raisone d'etre.  Me?  I can see only the beauty
and the wonder.  I like it much better that way.  But that's me.

A simple request from a crazy guy who likes fresh wine, please,
after you tell me all about the physics, never forget to tell us
how beautiful the sight was.  If I don't get a dose of emotion,
I tend to grow up a little more.  I hate it when that happens.

Jim Mortellaro






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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 7

                 Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:53:40 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 23:42:01 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening


Filer's Files #01--2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
January 6, 2000,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Free Daily UFO/ET Newsletter via E-mail! http://www.ufonetwork.com/
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. Chuck Warren Webmaster.

THE GREAT AWAKENING FOR A REMARKABLE NEW CENTURY

Once again at Christmas time the UFO reports have taken a major
nosedive from over 400 a month to less than a hundred in
December.  It appears the UFO occupants have gone on a holiday
or people are just too busy to report them.  Even so several
good sightings were reported from Georgia, California, and
China.  The New Year came in with spectacular fireworks displays
from around the world and UFOs were sighted in Italy and the
Philippines watching the celebrations. Congratulations to the US
and Russian military experts who worked diligently to avoid any
Y2K nuclear disasters.  It appears the world came through
relatively unscathed from any Y2K problems.  For the Chinese
this is the year of the dragon when great turbulent change often
occurs.  The year has started off with a series of UFO sightings
that have been wildly publicized throughout China. UFO's could
be described as flying dragons with short wings breathing fire.
These UFOs indicate that cosmic forces are at work, not unlike
those that defeated communism in the Soviet Union.  The Falun
Gong members who are strong believers in UFOs continue to be
arrested, while several million Christians remain in jail. The
attraction of capitalism versus communism indicates change as
well.  It is amazing that the Chinese government has allowed the
500 reported sightings in 1999 to be published in its news
media.  The military often scrambles fighters to intercept the
UFOs.

The future century promises significant changes.  There are
important indications of a warming trend in the weather with the
massive melting of ice in Antarctica. There is a trend towards
one world government versus the hundreds of nations that exist
today.  One advantage of world government is that there would be
little need for the military unless they were fighting against
the military forces of another world.  A whole series of new
technologies are being developed that will change the world for
the positive. Much of this new technology seems to explain many
of the science used aboard the UFOs.  Nanotechnology or the
miniaturization of computers is occurring at a tremendous pace.
Now, you can now wear a tiny cell phone on your collar.  Your
wristwatch may be your new computer.  Theoretically within this
century you can wear your automobile.  It comes as a suit of
clothes.  When you need your car, it literally grows up around
you.  Tremendous changes in medicine are also coming with the
unraveling of the genetic DNA code.  It turns out we are a
combination of some 180,000 DNA codes.  Each one is different
and composed of various genetic building blocks.  It is taking
years for powerful computers to unwrap the unbelievably
complicated codes.  I suggest that we are not the result of pure
chance.  All living organisms have a similar coding indicating a
designer, engineer, biochemist, or the Creator was at work.  A
single cell is more complicated than the city of New York.  Most
religions claim that their God created them. For example, the
ancient Indian Vedic documents claim that earthly humans descend
from higher human like beings from other planets.  It appears
that science and religion may become more in agreement with each
other during the next century.

WASHINGTON ELK ABDUCTION IS 1999s BEST CASE

LONGVIEW - I've contacted MUFON's Bob Fairfax and I met with
National Reporting Center Director Peter Davenport concerning
the February 25, 1999, elk abduction near Mount Saint Helens.
Elk are moose-like deer and weigh around a thousand pounds. A
work crew composed of 14 forestry workers of Mexican descent
were planting seedlings on the side of a mountain on lumber
company land. A herd of elk were grazing about 280 feet down
slope and to the north of them about 1600 feet away. Just before
noon, a twelve foot in diameter UFO flew slowly over the ridge,
wobbling as it flew toward the herd. The craft was a small
elongated disc with the back cut off, roughly in the shape of
the heal of a shoe. About 100 feet from contact with the herd,
the animals become aware of the craft and ran uphill to the
east.  One of the elk separates from the rest and the UFO
pursues.  Without pause the craft goes over the animal at a
height that might have brushed the elk's head.  The craft with
the elk dangling beneath then begins to ascend wobbling even
more than previously. As the object gained altitude, the elk,
which was suspended upright below the disc, rotated slowly
beneath it. When the craft reached the end of the clear-cut and
encounters the tree line the elk is almost totally inside as the
craft appears to grow slightly in size to accommodate the elk.
The UFO is not high enough to clear the treetops and the
witnesses watch it brush the tops of nearby trees. The UFO
reverses course and proceeds to the west. As it climbed to an
altitude above their vantage point, they no longer could see the
animal suspended below the craft. The witnesses could discern no
windows or doors through which the animal might have been taken
into the craft. The UFO circled after much wobbling gaining
altitude then ascended nearly vertically until it was lost from
sight in the clouds.

Robert Fairfax stated this is an excellent sighting because
the 14 forestry workers were working on contract for a large
corporation. Some worked 15 to 20 years with the same company.
It is not likely that they would risk their jobs to pull a
stunt.  The forestry people were sincere and believable family
men and their corporation vouched for their integrity. The
voice tone and body language during the interviews left me with
no doubt that they had been frightened, awed, confused and were
telling the truth. They were all frightened by the UFO
abduction of the elk and remained close together for the rest
of the day. The Game and Wildlife officer says, there have been
hard conditions this year for animals and most are
undernourished and many have starved. 'Thanks to Peter
Davenport and Bob Fairfax. Editors Note: It is very unusual for
UFOs to attempt to pick up animals in broad daylight in front
of 14 witnesses.  The UFO's aircrew may also have problems in
obtaining food.

MOST MARS PROBES FAIL, ALMOST ALL OTHER PROBES SUCCEED

Phil Duke Ph.D. writes, "Stick to your excellent posts." Many
so called Ufologists are really just debunkers.  I point out
that with a little technological help the thin atmosphere of
Mars will maintain life, there is water there and the plentiful
iron oxide can provide iron for construction and oxygen for
breathing and power. Therefore Mars is much more suitable as a
base for both ET aliens and humans than is our Moon.  Best
speculation is the ETs come from another star system, but find
Mars convenient. The low surface temperature and thin
atmosphere dictate underground facilities. We were allowed to
map the surface and find nothing, but more detailed information
is being prevented. NASA has its own agenda and is required not
to anticipate intelligent life anywhere out there. The agenda
is spelled CIA/NSA. I predicted awhile back continuing major
problems with NASA launches and eventual cancellation of Mars's
exploration by humans.  You will see.  Thanks to Phil Duke
Ph.D. Non-UFO sighting Evidence posted on
drpduke.compduke@juno.com

GEORGIA PILOT SEES HIGH SPEED UFO

WAYCROSS --Dan Coble writes I live about an hour north of
Jacksonville Florida.  During Shuttle missions we often hear
the sonic boom of the shuttle decelerating for it's approach to
NASA. Most of the time when the landing is at night we go
outside to try to get a glimpse of the shuttle reentering. On
December 27, 1999, my family and I were outside looking for the
shuttle to reenter.  My daughter and I saw a very bright light
at high altitude traveling east.  It was too far north to be
the shuttle. As a pilot, I'm used to seeing commercial and
military aircraft at various altitudes, satellites passing
overhead, and the shuttle. The craft was traveling on a
parallel course with what would have been the approach corridor
of the shuttle over the Gulf of Mexico, and was visible at the
precise time of the shuttle's return. We watched as the craft
traveled almost out of sight to our east, then it made a sharp
turn to the north, accelerated, climbed to a VERY high altitude
at high speed.  The shuttle would have turned south. It was
immediately followed by high altitude aircraft, I assume were
military.  Their speed was much greater than commercial jet
traffic. We watched as military aircraft converged from the
north and from the south.   I assume from the altitude the UFO
was at that time, there was no way they could have caught it.
It zipped a distance of a 100 miles in the blink of an eye. My
wife was able to follow it until it appeared to slow and
continue north. The craft was about half the size and
brightness when we first saw it, leading me to guess that this
UFO had climbed to an extremely high altitude. I am sure you
are aware that this part of the country is a hotbed of UFO
activity. During last night's shuttle landing, my mother
spotted a light in the southeastern sky, emitting bright shafts
of light toward the ground. There seems to be allot of UFO
activity during nighttime shuttle launches and landings. I
suggest people should spend some time looking up. Thanks to Dan
Coble. tmray@accessatc.net See www.filersfiles.com for
information on the Aurora.

NEW JERSEY MISSING TIME

GLASSBORO -- My husband and I had a strange experience just
before Christmas. On Saturday we received a call from our son
who called at 5:10 PM and talked for a few minutes. We left the
house to go grocery shopping at 5:20 PM.  It takes about 9
minutes to get to the Shoprite grocery store. We entered the
store at about 5:30 PM and did our usual shopping.  At one
point I heard two men behind the meat counter talking about
UFO's.  Just before we checked out I bought ice cream. We
pulled the carts to the check out counter, and I started
putting the groceries on the conveyor belt.  When I put the ice
cream on the belt it spilled over. Strangely, the ice cream had
melted. We were surprised that it had happened, because we had
picked it up last. The cashier told me to get another one, so I
did. We took the groceries to the truck and loaded the
groceries in it. A friend pulled up in his car and we talked
for about 15 minutes and then we left.  It was only about 25
degrees and we were freezing so we didn't talk long. We went
straight home and when I got into the house I looked at the
time, and I just couldn't believe it, it was 11:00 PM. How
could 5  hours have passed in an hour?  It was impossible, no
way were we in that store for 5 hours. We checked all our
watches, times, answering machine, and Shoprite surveillance
cameras.  There is no explanation for the missing time.
Editors Note: I have been getting many similar reports of
missing time.  The people involved have no memories that can
account the missing time, but are positive it is gone.  Thanks
to Evelyn G.

CONTRAILS CONNECTIONS TO FLU EPIDEMIC

TEXAS -- The Contrail Research and Reporting Center writes that
research is needed in the relationship of Unusual Contrail
Formations (UCFs) and flu-like illnesses in areas where
spraying has occurred.  Usually four engine jet aircraft have
been video taped spraying at low level around the US leaving
contrails at a few thousand feet. The Contrail Center reports
that North Texas has had unusual contrail formations observed
over the North Texas area for about ten days of the month.
According to Fox news Dallas affiliate, Channel 4, flu symptoms
significantly increased during the third and fourth weeks of
December 1999.  North Texas reported increased flu symptoms:
Plano - 98%, Lewisville - 81%, Lakewood - 76%, Dallas - 30%,
and Ft. Worth - 25%.  Doctors cited possible causes of the
increases as due to people traveling more during the holidays
and spreading the viruses.  Warm weather has also delayed the
delayed the flu season.  The cities north of Dallas had the
highest increase in cases with flu symptoms.  These are
comparatively rural areas while the larger cities -- where one
might expect *more* flu cases -- had the *lower* percentages.
According to the "Flu-O-Meter" at "discoveryhealth.com," the
flu levels in Texas are reportedly "low."

There appears to be a correlation between contrails and flu
symptoms in the North Texas cities of Plano, The Colony,
Carrollton and Lewisville during December 1999. I caution
against reaching premature conclusions and advise more studies
need to be conducted. There is, as yet, no conclusive evidence
linking unusual contrail formations to illnesses. Heavier
concentrations of unusual contrail formations and "conclouds"
(artificial clouds that develop when these unusual "contrails"
seem to extend and spread out) may be causing flu-like symptoms
in people as a side-effect of some process rather than due to
any viral agents being  "sprayed" over our populations.  We do
not know what is actually taking place and that's why more
research is needed.  Thanks to Amy at Contrail Research and
Reporting Center. See www.contrailconnection.com for views of
he aircraft spraying.  Flu is a virus and there are simple
tests to determine if someone has the flu.  Antibacterial drugs
have no effect on a virus.

CALIFORNIA FOOTBALL SHAPED UFO SIGHTING

YUCCA VALLEY -- Patrice Erwin writes, "My mother got a pretty
good look at a low flying object on January 2, 2000, at 9:30
PM.  She swears that it was not a meteor, but a low flying
"football" shaped silver gray ship.  It was traveling south in
a straight line as slow as a small plane would fly.  It had a
bullet shape with a tail of bright orange fire.  The fire
emitting from back was half the size of the vessel and a solid
mass of fire with no sparking.  It's hard to tell how large it
was since she doesn't know its distance.  The nose and body
shaped was shaped like a football, but the rear part seemed to
be rounded where the fire was coming out.  (As if you had cut
the football 3/4 down so it was rounded.)" It was reported on
the news as a left over meteor from a recent meteor shower. It
moved northward very slowly toward San Diego.  It made a very
low deep sounding hum, like an idling diesel truck.  The object
was reported to the FAA by aviators, ground observers and
various news stations.  The reports were made to our local
radio station at around 9:30 PM, and were reported in the Los
Angles basin around 10:00 PM. There were numerous sightings
around this region. The FAA was unable to track anything on
it's radar probably because the object was flying very low.  We
live in Yucca Valley, it is 30 miles from Palm Springs, near
the 29 Palms Marine base.  The idea that "we're not alone" has
always fascinated me.    Thanks to Patrice Erwin
pms107@thegrid.net

CALIFORNIA SIGHTING OF THREE UFOs IN A ROW

LANCASTER - Mike Rogalski formally of NASA, writes that on
January 2, 2000, my girlfriend, her son, and I saw an
impressive aerial display of objects, seen frequently in this
area just a few miles from the Lockheed Skunks Works. Three
bright fluorescent green objects shared the same relatively
flat trajectory through a short arc of about 15 degrees across
the sky 9:32 PM.  Traveling from the north to south they
disappeared in short succession, one after the other, after
displaying a yellow tail of light.  There was no visible origin
seen, such as a rocket burnout, or any noise heard.  The entire
brilliant, eye-grabbing sighting lasted not more than 15
seconds.  We estimate the objects were a mile away and about
2,000 feet up.  Speed at that distance was estimated at 300-400
mph.  The bright green dot-like objects could be seen
individually in the beginning, but blurred into a green, then
yellow tail.  For those familiar with the area, it was
estimated to be traveling down Route 14 at 20th Street west.  I
have seen four of these sightings, three with north to south
trajectories.  One had a west orientation directly overhead
significant enough to scare my teenage daughter who was present
at that sighting.  No details of the objects could be seen.
These objects have been reported on successive nights traveling
in opposite trajectories, making a meteor shower unlikely.
Thanks to Mike Rogalski.  Editor's Note: Both of these
sightings were at the same time within a 100 miles of each
other.

CANADIAN CROP CIRCLE SUMMARY REPORT 1999

Paul Anderson the Director of Circles Phenomenon Research
Canada reports there were 20 crop circles across Canada in
1999, up from 14 the year before. Numerous others were reported
in England, the Czech Republic, Germany, Holland, the USA,
Israel and elsewhere. This past year's "circle season" in
Canada, from July to October was the greatest ever.  Some were
small circles while others were formations two to three hundred
feet in size, and elaborate.  There were many associated
anomalies, notably stalk nodes from some formations with very
significant stretching, swelling and expulsion cavities as
compared to normal control samples.  There were numerous
electrical equipment malfunctions in and around some
formations.  Formations were reported in six provinces -
British Columbia (1), Alberta (4), Saskatchewan (10), Ontario
(3), Quebec (1) and Prince Edward Island. Images are  available
on the CPR-Canada web site http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

UNITED KINGDOM UFO LANDING

YORKSHIRE MOORS -- Andrew Makinson writes, "My girlfriend and
my brother and I were driving slowly due to the fog on A635
from a millennium celebration over the New Year. We approached
a car that had stopped up ahead. The occupants of the car were
still inside and my girlfriend said that I should stop and ask
if they required any assistance. My brother and I approached
the driver's window and knocked on it. The driver wound his
window down and said, 'Tell me that you see that?'  He was
pointing toward some bright white lights facing the road about
100 meters away.  Oh my God someone's come off the road in an
accident.  "I asked the man if he had been over to the car?"
and he said, "It's not a car mate, I don't know what it is?"
At this point we heard a sort of blast of noise rather like a
ships horn, its lights turned greenish and dimmed slightly
before a reddish bluish glow appeared underneath. The lights
shot up into the air.  No noise no nothing and they were gone!
We exchanged telephone numbers and names and said that we
should contact each other. I am skeptical about such things,
but five people witnessed a craft that was not a helicopter.
Thanks to Andy Mak and Todd Lemire  uk.rec.ufo newsgroup.
Domestos@rahrahrandel.fsnet.co.uk Stalybridge

UNITED KINGDOM GIANT FLYING TRIANGLE

GLOUSCESTERSHIRE-- Dave Cosnette writes, "On December 7, 1999,
at 6.30 AM  I saw an incredibly large craft near my house while
taking the dog for a walk. I first spotted a large white light
that had many different colors moving inside of it.  On closer
inspection I noticed a star formation behind the craft was
moving with it.  This craft was as big as an open daily
newspaper at arm's length. The lights at the back were like a
triangle, but flying backwards. The point was at the rear and a
large white light was at the front. Others also saw it. I ran
back home to get my brother and we both saw the craft was just
moving over a hill, four miles away.  It was still three inches
wide at that distance.  Another witness said he couldn't
believe how big it was and that he couldn't hear any noise.
Thanks to  "Dave Cosnette littlegreys@hotmail.com

ITALY NEW YEAR'S UFO

ROME -- Francis Paliekara writes, "I was watching CNN and MSNBC
on New Year's Eve when they showed celebrations from around the
world.  They were showing footage from the Vatican during the
pope's New Year's blessing.  As they panned around St. Peter's
Square There was an object in plain sight which hovered
completely still in the sky on the right.  It was gray and disk
shaped and had no light coming from it or around it.  I don't
know what it was.  I was curious if others saw it?  Thanks to
Francis Paliekara paliekara@powerweb.net

PHILIPPINE NEW YEAR'S UFO

MANILLA -- McMahons writes, "Hi, while walking by the T.V. set
that is hooked up to receiving dish  for the "ABS-CBN TFC
Direct"( The Filipino Channel satellite broadcasting to many
areas of the world via tape delay) I watched the a portion of
the New Year's celebration which included fire works and a
Laser light display.  Right after the news portion covering the
Laser lights, they showed, what they described, as a bright
light that was very high in the sky and moving slow enough that
it was there for at least five minutes. There was no guess as
to its actual altitude but it was "very high" and they were
positive that it was not a Laser projection, it was also
observed by their President and members of his "party".. V/r EK
mcmahons < mcmahons@access1.net of San Diego

MOST MARS PROBES FAIL, ALMOST ALL OTHERS SUCCEED

Phil Duke Ph.D. writes, "I am for you all the way. Stick to
your excellent posts. Many so called Ufologists are really just
debunkers."  Phil points out that with a little  technological
help the thin atmosphere of Mars will maintain life, there is
water there and the plentiful iron oxide can provide iron for
construction and oxygen for breathing and power. Therefore Mars
is much more suitable as a base for both ET aliens and humans
than is our Moon.  Best speculation is the ETs come from
another star system, but find Mars convenient. The low surface
temperature and thin atmosphere dictate underground facilities.
We were allowed to map the surface and find nothing, but more
detailed information is being prevented. NASA has its  own
agenda and is required not to anticipate intelligent life
anywhere out there. The agenda is spelled CIA/NSA. I predicted
awhile back continuing major problems with NASA launches and
eventual cancellation of Mars exploration by humans.  You will
see.  Thanks to Phil Duke Ph.D. Non-UFO sighting Evidence
posted on drpduke.compduke@juno.com

PULL OUT THE POLYGRAPH

Researcher Bob Durant writes, "In the unlikely event that a
Bigelow or a Firmage or a Rockefeller should ask my opinion
about the wisest way to invest money in UFO research, I would
reply at once: sign up a good polygraph examiner.  Yes, a
polygraph, commonly known as the "lie detector."  Ufology
desperately needs a basic truth filter to sort out the stories
that soak up so much time and energy, to the detriment of
genuine research into the UFO phenomenon.  And the filtering
needs to be done before the stories spread, not after the fact.
The polygraph is not an absolute gauge of truth-telling. It can
be defeated by taking a fistful of valium tablets, because the
device is a stress gauge.  Psychotics can't be tested.
Apparently there are a few tricks one can practice to sidestep
the process.

Aldrich Ames, the CIA official who betrayed dozens of agents to
the KGB, and who in the course of his business seems to have
picked up these wiles, passed several polygraphs.  Nor is the
polygraph admissible in courts of law. On the other hand, it
continues to be used in a wide variety of settings, from
industrial hiring sessions to law enforcement.  Every federal
law enforcement or intelligence agency uses the polygraph.  All
day and all night.  That's because 99% of the time it works.
My modest suggestion is that this technology be introduced into
the wild world of ufology. Snip.  Apparently Rockefeller got
"bit" once too often, and has backed away from UFO projects.
How much more of this nonsense can we take?  We haven't the
funds to do appropriate testing of the scores of alleged "alien
implants," or to translate the recently published high-level
French study of the UFO problem, just to name two items that
cry out for accomplishment.  And I claim the money would be
there, but for the frauds who got there first, and permanently
alienated the few funding sources available.  It's time to
demand that the "established" characters on my list take a lie
detector examination.  And from this point forward, those who
want us to believe in their films, or documents, or Area 51
adventures must submit to the polygraph, or be branded with the
ufological version of the Surgeon General's beer bottle
warning:  Caution -- this "source" refused to take a lie
detector test. Reading his book, or his documents, or viewing
his film may cause damage to your mental health, and waste your
time and money, and will almost certainly do nothing to enhance
your knowledge of the true nature of UFOs. Thanks to R. J.
Durant, 106 Hessian Hill Drive,  Pennington, NJ 08534
Editor's Note: Bob gave me a list of people that he would like
to see polygraphed and why.  He has an excellent suggestion. Do
our readers have their favorites?

US GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO
Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign
Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now
available for distribution to the public.  Sam Sherman's audio
documentary tape called THE EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on
the night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings
provided by the Air Force.  During this event 12 high tech
luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over
the runways at Edwards AFB.  Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels
spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command.  Sgt.
Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment
where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival
recordings.  The UFOs are described and a decision is made to
launch F-106 fighter interceptors.  You are there for an
important part of UFO history.  Hear it for yourself, it's the
best UFO tape ever made.  Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00
for shipping -- total $16.95 -- (for overseas orders-out of US
- add $6.00 shipping cost -- total -- $20.95) you can send
either a personal check or money order to: Independent
International Pictures Corp, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New
Jersey 08857.

THREE YEARS OF FILER'S FILES -- 1997, 1998, and 1999 on CD or
Floppy Disc for only $25.00. The cost includes handling and
shipping. An index is included. Send a check to George Filer,
222 Jackson Road Medford, New Jersey 08055.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting  Mufon@aol.com. Mention I sent
you.  Filer's Files Copyright 1999 by George A. Filer, all
rights reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their
Web Sites provided that they credit the newsletter and its
editor by name and list the date of issue that the item
appeared. Send your letters to me at Majorstar@aol.com.  Your
letters can be published if need be. If you wish to keep your
name confidential please so state.








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             Re: Cydonian Imperative 2000: Mars Global Surveyor

From: Joachim Koch <AchimKoch@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 18:25:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 23:51:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative 2000: Mars Global Surveyor


 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 02:16:03 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Cydonian Imperative 2000: Mars Global Surveyor Petition
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >This is a telling development; it demonstrates not only that the
 >MGS' camera resolution is sufficient to discern extremely fine-
 >scale detail on the Martian surface, but that the craft's camera
 >contractor, Malin Space Science Systems, has misled the public
 >as to the flexibility of the MGS Camera.  MSSS has maintained
 >that the MGS Camera is fixed to the spacecraft and unable to be
 >aimed at a given target on the surface.  While technically
 >accurate, the Mars Global Surveyor itself serves as the Camera's
 >base, which _can_ be positioned to effectively aim the Camera.

Hi Mac,

To suport your thesis, I found this under:

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/6_10_99_mensae/index.html

 >Mars Global Surveyor
 >Mars Orbiter Camera
 >North Nilosyrtis Mensae
 >MGS MOC Release No. MOC2-133, 10 June 1999

<snip>

 >The MOC image shows several low, flat-topped mesas. Although
 >flat at large scale, their surfaces are quite rough and bumpy
 >at smaller scales. Many of these bumps might be boulders, but
 >the resolution of this particular image (4.5 meters--15 feet--
 >per pixel) is not high enough to be certain. The lowlands
 >surrounding the mesas are cracked and pitted--especially the
 >darker surfaces on the right side of the image. The cause of
 >the pitting is not known and can only be speculated upon
 >(because the material removed from each pit is now gone).
 >Possible origins for the pits include removal of dust or sand
 >by wind and/or sublimation of ice from the near subsurface.
 >The picture covers an area 3 kilometers (1.9 miles) wide and
 >is illuminated from the left.

<snip>

And:

We have on our website of the German UFO magazine 'UFO-Kurier'
(http://www.kopp-verlag.de/themen/Mars/Cydonia1.htm) a
comparison of the photographs. We all remember the previous
analysis of the Face - done with the best available computer
equipment by some respected experts who even involved fractal
geometry (as it was applied by the best army on this planet
during  a war in the the arabian desert) to find hostile tanks
on/in the ground), we remember calculations of height, size and
shape of the structures - all rubbish?

If you would not know anything about "The Face on Mars" and
would see the first and the second photographs for the first
time, you would say: it seems as if what was so clear  in shape
in the first picture is only a shadow of itself in the second
picture - as if it is/was destroyed in the meantime.

But the rectangular bank on the left edge is consistent - why
don't we focus on this?

With the new data - let us focuss on the banks of The Face
because it seems that this is not "trick of the light" but
really there.

Remember: when Napoleon conquered Egypt he found the Sphynx
visible only by its head, the rest was underneath the sand.

Be shure: there is something underneath the sands of Mars.


Joachim Koch, Berlin








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   Jan > Jan 7

             Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'

From: Erol Erkmen <andromeda@mail.koc.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 02:55:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 23:58:21 -0500
Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'



 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:08 +0000
 >From: Dave Bower <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I suppose the point I'm trying to make is until someone can come
 >up with some solid evidence on UFOs or abductions this whole
 >thing will remain in the end of the news comedy slot along with
 >the two headed lamb and 'oh my God... NASA's lost another one'.

 >Big yuks...

 >Dave.

Hi dave,

Let's try learn again UFO, UFO means unidentified flying object,
not aliens space craft. For that reason UFO evidences always
here, like plasma vortex or A.L.P (natural Phenomena) or else.

If you look this window you can find much evidence. Please look
ancient of traces articles

Erol








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             Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:37:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:05:57 -0500
Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'



 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:08 +0000
 >From: Dave Bower <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:29:26 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >>Subject: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >My brother has been a fan of Peanuts (Charlie Brown and Snoopy)
 >for well over thirty years. Charles M. Schultz the creator
 >recently published his last strip after 48 years. Never to be
 >seen again a new Charlie Brown and Snoopy cartoon strip. Most
 >people couldn't give a s**t.

 >My brother cried out about the world media not picking up on
 >this historic moment, he didn't understand that his obsession
 >did not reflect the worlds interest i.e: war, climate change,
 >politics. Well lets face it, Charlie Brown was after all a
 >cartoon.

Huh?  What do you mean the world media didn't pick up the
passing of Peanuts?  It was the subject of enormous coverage,
often on the front pages of major newspapers.  It was on the
cover of Newsweek, the subject of radio talk shows (including
NPR's Talk of the Nation), and the like.  My word.  Your brother
apparently spent more time crying out than paying attention.
Good grief!

Jerry Clark









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                    Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:28:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:10:14 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'


 >>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:03:18 +0000
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>One could wonder if the general French _attitude_ towards UFOs
 >>is changing, if an article like this gets published by a
 >>national newspaper? Perhaps the French are ahead of the game in
 >>public acceptance that we are not alone?


Hi All,

I have a colleague who gives lectures in France about Crop
Circles and has been doing so for some time now, he also has a
house in the countryside. He has told me before that the French
are very closed minded on UFO's along with general Paranormal
events.

But since we last spoke, he had a review in a paper about one of
his lectures and it seemed to cover the topic okay, so maybe the
French are becoming a lot more aware of what is flying in and
around their skies?

I also know that there are a few more local researchers
appearing in France, so maybe France will be on the map this
year!

Roy..







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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Jacqueline Cosford <millpond@home.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:50:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 01:13:52 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:15:14 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:48:32 +1100
 >>>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>This is not the place to go into the lengthy science behind the
 >>>current conclusions and expectations that I stated

 >Hi Bill,

 >Well hold on a second , what do you mean this isn't the place to
 >go into lengthy discussions concerning the Pleiades? What is
 >this list all about? Have you seen how long some threads have
 >been going on here? With the greatest respect to you Bill, but
 >you came out with a rather big statement on the Pleiades as far
 >as I am concerned, which was and again I repeat: >>too young to
 >support anything like life yet.


Hi Roy

I'm not sure if this will help but I'd like to try.

The Pleiades are 400 light years away, relatively close
considering the vast distances in space.

However, these stars were all born approximately 20 million
years ago, which does in fact make them baby stars.

Our sun is 4.7 billion years old!

All the stars in the Pleiades group are blue-white which makes
them extremely hot. Just to give you an idea on how young this
group is, if we were to go back in time to the Age of the
Dinosaurs, the Pleiades would not exist, and wouldn't be born
for another 50 million years!

When one takes into account that it took approximately 500
million years for our earth to cool and harden to form a crust
then it seems unlikely that any planets which may be forming
around the Pleiadian stars have reached that stage.

So I would tend to agree with Bill... the Pleiades are too damn
young to support any form of life!

Best wishes to all

Jacquie

--
"The truth is within ourselves"








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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:45:12 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:25:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:03:04 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi All,

 >Just going over  a very well known case " 9th November 1979, Bob
 >Taylor,  the town of Livingston near Edinburgh, Scotland".

 >Are there any of the original researchers who investigated this
 >case on this list?

 >Were there any leanings toward a Military connection?

 >Roy..

Hi,

I was not directly involved in this case, but did coordinate the
UFOIN investigation at the time and have met some of those
involved. It is an impressive case and remains unsolved.

I dont recall anything that connected it with the military. But
it was the first time that police in the UK (possibly anywhere)
treated a UFO case as a personal assault and launched a proper
scene of crimes investigation. They were left as baffled as we
were about what actually occurred.

Steuart Campbell reckons it was a mirage of mercury or some such
planet. I think thats a bit unlikely!

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles







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                     Invitation To Cydonia Mailing List

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 01:32:53 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:32:26 -0500
Subject: Invitation To Cydonia Mailing List


Cydonian Imperative: Rationale
by Mac Tonnies

Many groups have sprouted up since the verification that the so-
called "face" on Mars is an actual feature and not the "trick of
light and shadow" originally claimed by NASA.  The Cydonian
Imperative seeks to occupy a position in the Cydonian
controversy that is currently lacking--namely, activism.  While
a crowd of people standing outside the White House holding
placards reading "Face the Facts, NASA" is perhaps an inspiring
start, it is not what is needed.  A campaign to inform the
public (and evidently NASA itself) of the potential importance
of the Cydonian features must, by necessity, be much more
far-reaching and at the same time much more subtle.  The
Cydonian Imperative argues that this needn't be a paradox.

1. Official Resistance

The popular conception of _anything_ dealing with alien life is
one of absurd skepticism.  While polls indicate that most
educated Americans believe that we "are not alone," official
science has tempered our enthusiasm by a dogmatic adherence to
radio-based SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence).
So far, SETI has yet to discern a conclusive extraterrestrial
signal, yet it is propelled by the theory that enough
civilizations exist in our galaxy to warrant a prolonged search.
The assumptions made by radio-SETI proponents are not trivial.
Even so, the effort persists even though we lack tangible
evidence to indicate the program's eventual success.

Why then, is the possibility of artifacts on a neighboring
planet scoffed and dismissed?  Perhaps the dichotomy between
accepted SETI practice and the search for artifacts is less
arbitrary than it is emotional.  The probable existence of alien
ruins on Mars is somehow daunting; it smacks of tabloid
cover-stories and ranting pseudoscientists.  It was probably
this association that prompted NASA, in 1976, to tell the news
media that a second image of the Face had been received that
dispelled the facial resemblance evident in the first image.
The fact that no such image existed--indeed, it would have been
impossible for the Viking spacecraft to have taken a second
picture of the Face in the time-frame provided by NASA-- was
quietly ignored until the inquiry was taken up by independent
researchers.

Thus, research into the Face and its associated formations, has
become a wholly independent endeavor.  So, since NASA is
recognized as the final word on all things "far out," the fact
that Mars anomaly research is a fringe pursuit becomes ample
reason for the press to shoot it down.

Today I scanned through the January, 2000 issue of "National
Geographic" and was horrified by a caption "revealing" that the
Mars Global Surveyor satellite had shown the Face to be a
"rocky mesa."  That the Surveyor showed us nothing of the sort
(its single, tantalizing image showing the Face obscured by
shadow, at a near 45 degree angle, and through a veil of
windborn dust) simply didn't concern "National Geographic's"
editors.  The issue of artificiality on Mars has been
effectively closed since 1976.

What, then, of the Mars Global Surveyor image of the Face?  Is
it what its detractors claim or something more?

2. The April, 1998 "Mars Face" Release

In April of 1998, the first picture of the Face in 20 years was
released on the Internet, unenhanced and bereft of any
responsible image analysis.  Now known as the "catbox" image,
this image quickly made it into the national media as laugh
fodder.  The atonal picture released by NASA didn't look like
much of anything; commentators compared it from everything to a
footprint to a race track to a potato.

"Nothing jumps out and screams, 'This must have been built by
the forces of intelligence,'" remarked Michael Ravine, Advanced
Projects Manager for Malin Space Science Systems, NASA's MGS
Camera contractor.

NASA evidently intended its release of the historic Face image
to eliminate the fringe suspicion that NASA might go to lengths
to conduct a secret study of the Cydonia region.  As a gesture
of scientific goodwill, however, the press release is suspect.
Hours after loosing the depthless, "contrast-enhanced" image on
the Net, NASA produced a second image, showing the Face in
proper three-dimensional relief.

(This second image, an arguable improvement over the first, has
since been hailed as the definitive picture of the "Face on
Mars," and used to dismiss future imaging opportunities.
"National Geographic" couldn't have been clearer: "True
believers remain undeterred."  This irresponsible delineation
between "believers" and so-called rationalists remains the
central problem in Cydonia politics.  The press, so far as I
know, has never addressed the twenty years of intensive
peer-reviewed scientific study performed on the Cydonia region
by the geologists and computer imaging experts best qualified to
make sense of the shots provided by Viking and MGS.)

While NASA's second "enhancement" was welcomed by many
following the controversy, it was also severely criticized. The
rather Picasso-esque, unfacelike appearance captured in the new
image did not reflect the features of the actual Face; image
processors at Jet Propulsion Laboratory had subjected the raw
data to a process known as orthorectification in an attempt to
bring out depth and verisimilitude.  Orthorectification is
routinely used in assessing photographs taken from orbit.
Unfortunately for the Face, orthorectification is only valid
when addressing photos taken from _above_.  The MGS
photographed the Face from a significant angle--enough to
leave the right side in almost complete obscurity.

Consequently, NASA's second released image of the Face formation
is visibly deformed.  A portion of the proposed "mouth" can be
seen, as can some of the formation's unusual "platform."  The
Face appears anything but symmetric--at odds with the images
provided by Viking in 1976.

3. Independent Investigation Weakens NASA's Premature Claim

Over the ensuing weeks, digital image specialist Mark Carlotto,
a prominent member of the Society for Planetary SETI Research,
provided the few people still curious about Cydonia with much
more accurate renderings of the Face, produced in part from
elevation data derived from the Viking images.  Tellingly, NASA,
in its haste to trivialize what in its collective mind was
already a false unknown, took none of the cautious efforts
demonstrated by Carlotto.

The "Face" was reborn.  Suddenly the features hidden in shadow
in the old Viking photos took on detail.  The almond-shaped
depression of the left eye-socket became visible, with hints of
a badly eroded pupil.

"In the 1976 Viking images, the impression of a face was
unmistakable," noted Carlotto, addressing the original NASA
release.  "But illuminated from below the Face seems less
remarkable.  Many of the features seen in the Viking images can
also be seen in the new MGS image.  But it is apparent that the
Face, if it is a face, is severely eroded."

Carlotto was able to discern more and more detail, including
possible adornment on the Face's "crest," structures strongly
suggestive of lips, and identical "nostrils" placed exactly on
the Face's centerline (features invisible on existing images).
His report to the American Geophysical Union focused on the
Face's remarkable degree of symmetry (within the confines of the
MGS data), anthropoid proportions and evident three-
dimensionality.

The new Face image not merely sustains the Artificiality
Hypothesis, but strengthens it in some respects by the discovery
of fine-scale features such as the nostrils and elevated
centerline.  The Face, regardless of its origin, is heavily
eroded, as would be expected of a large sculpture exposed to
millennia of Martian weathering and meteoric rain.

And so we are left with a mystery just as strong, and arguably
much stronger, than that which the MGS promised to dispel.

4.  The Demand for Further Imaging

The above paragraphs focus only on the Face, ignoring the vast
evidence of artificiality to be found elsewhere in the Cydonia
region.  While nothing may jump out and scream that it was built
by intelligence, neither does it proclaim itself natural.  Its
enigma is mute; only human efforts can make sense of this
remarkable set of objects.

NASA, not remarkably, has quietly withdrawn its promise to, in
the words of administrator Dan Goldin, rephotograph the region
"until everyone is satisfied."  NASA has never taken the Face
seriously, and has never intended to--apparently not even when
confronted with evidence that would tend to lessen its stance
that there are no intelligently designed structures on Mars.

The Cydonian Imperative seeks to help erode the apathy that is
keeping "official" science from investigating what could be the
greatest discovery in our species' history.  Questions remain
unanswered; hypotheses are yet to be tested.  Cydonia is not a
false unknown, the spawn of overworked imaginations desperate to
find a signal in the noise.

The Face and its attendant formations can be tested and
_confirmed_ as natural or artificial.  It's within our technical
ability to accomplish this in the foreseeable future.
Contrasted to the relatively airy speculation that drives
radio-SETI, is it unreasonable to ask that Cydonia be treated
with scientific integrity?

We must change official policy regarding the Cydonian
formations; it is up to us.

{To join the Cydonian Imperative, and receive all future
installments, send email to alintelbot@aol.com asking to be
added to the list.}






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               Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:17:56 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:42:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:53:40 EST
 >Subject: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Filer's Files #01--2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >January 6, 2000,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
 >Free Daily UFO/ET Newsletter via E-mail! http://www.ufonetwork.com/
 >Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. Chuck Warren Webmaster.

 >THE GREAT AWAKENING FOR A REMARKABLE NEW CENTURY

 ><snip>

 >PULL OUT THE POLYGRAPH

 >Researcher Bob Durant writes, "In the unlikely event that a
 >Bigelow or a Firmage or a Rockefeller should ask my opinion
 >about the wisest way to invest money in UFO research, I would
 >reply at once: sign up a good polygraph examiner.  Yes, a
 >polygraph, commonly known as the "lie detector."  Ufology
 >desperately needs a basic truth filter to sort out the stories
 >that soak up so much time and energy, to the detriment of
 >genuine research into the UFO phenomenon.  And the filtering
 >needs to be done before the stories spread, not after the fact.
 >The polygraph is not an absolute gauge of truth-telling. It can
 >be defeated by taking a fistful of valium tablets, because the
 >device is a stress gauge.  Psychotics can't be tested.
 >Apparently there are a few tricks one can practice to sidestep
 >the process.

 >Aldrich Ames, the CIA official who betrayed dozens of agents to
 >the KGB, and who in the course of his business seems to have
 >picked up these wiles, passed several polygraphs.  Nor is the
 >polygraph admissible in courts of law. On the other hand, it
 >continues to be used in a wide variety of settings, from
 >industrial hiring sessions to law enforcement.  Every federal
 >law enforcement or intelligence agency uses the polygraph.  All
 >day and all night.  That's because 99% of the time it works.
 >My modest suggestion is that this technology be introduced into
 >the wild world of ufology. Snip.  Apparently Rockefeller got
 >"bit" once too often, and has backed away from UFO projects.
 >How much more of this nonsense can we take?  We haven't the
 >funds to do appropriate testing of the scores of alleged "alien
 >implants," or to translate the recently published high-level
 >French study of the UFO problem, just to name two items that
 >cry out for accomplishment.  And I claim the money would be
 >there, but for the frauds who got there first, and permanently
 >alienated the few funding sources available.  It's time to
 >demand that the "established" characters on my list take a lie
 >detector examination.  And from this point forward, those who
 >want us to believe in their films, or documents, or Area 51
 >adventures must submit to the polygraph, or be branded with the
 >ufological version of the Surgeon General's beer bottle
 >warning:  Caution -- this "source" refused to take a lie
 >detector test. Reading his book, or his documents, or viewing
 >his film may cause damage to your mental health, and waste your
 >time and money, and will almost certainly do nothing to enhance
 >your knowledge of the true nature of UFOs. Thanks to R. J.
 >Durant, 106 Hessian Hill Drive,  Pennington, NJ 08534
 >Editor's Note: Bob gave me a list of people that he would like
 >to see polygraphed and why.  He has an excellent suggestion. Do
 >our readers have their favorites?

 ><snip>

Gosh, Bob, you have no idea how much I value this suggestion.
For me, it's right up there with the suggestion that people post
their Curriculum Vitae on the list so that we, the illuminated
bulbs, however dim, may adjudge their credibility.

Yup.  Damned good idea.  Polygraph the bastards.  Make 'em
sweat. On the off-chance that you are correct in the percentages
quoted (the polygraph test is 99% accurate), it's that one
percent that can mean the difference between having faith or
unbelief.  Stick another slice in the pizza oven, run it up the
flagpole and see whom salutes, etc.

God, I wish I had the cajones to write what you wrote.  Even
with tongue in cheek I would aks, "Heybobareebob, whose cheeks?"

With all due respect (and that ain't much amigo),

Dr. J. Jaime Health (which is what gesundt means in Yiddish).
Actually, the word "Mortellaro," which has the Italian word
"morte'" or death in it, combined with "ellaro" refers to an
evergreen tree indiginous to the island of Sicily. The entire
combination means lack of death...  Just call me J. Jaime
Healthy Tree.







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             Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 02:00:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:45:04 -0500
Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'


 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:08 +0000
 >From: Dave Bower <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:29:26 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >>Subject: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>I was very disappointed on seeing the brief mention on the
 >>program 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries' on TLC (The
 >>Learning channel) of the Edward's AFB UFO story.

 >>No wonder the public has very little or no information on a
 >>subject like this when it is given about 2 or 3 minutes of
 >>coverage.

<snip>

 >Hi Chris and all,

 >It could all simply be down to what is perceived to be of public
 >interest.

 >I'll give you an example:

 >My brother has been a fan of Peanuts (Charlie Brown and Snoopy)
 >for well over thirty years. Charles M. Schultz the creator
 >recently published his last strip after 48 years. Never to be
 >seen again a new Charlie Brown and Snoopy cartoon strip. Most
 >people couldn't give a s**t.

 >My brother cried out about the world media not picking up on
 >this historic moment, he didn't understand that his obsession
 >did not reflect the worlds interest i.e: war, climate change,
 >politics. Well lets face it, Charlie Brown was after all a
 >cartoon.

 >I suppose the point I'm trying to make is until someone can come
 >up with some solid evidence on UFOs or abductions this whole
 >thing will remain in the end of the news comedy slot along with
 >the two headed lamb and 'oh my God... NASA's lost another one'.

 >Big yuks...

 >Dave.

Dear Dave:

The "Peanuts" closure hits home here. I distinctly remember
reading a Peanuts comic strip, not 30 feet from where I'm
sitting now, (I was pestering the people next door )... this was
almost 50 years ago.

The paper had to be the San Francisco Chronicle,  the only one
here (SF Bay Area) to carry Charles Schultz strip all that time.

They were uniformly dismissive if not snide about UFOs that
same entire time as I recall.

I distinctly remember Charlie Brown and the gang, but not the
little story. I have one or two Peanuts (Cebollitos) books in
Spanish left over from some private language studies long ago.

When newspapers like the Chron take a different stance, then one
might posit a real change in public/editorial opinion.

I'm not holding my breath in the meantime.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch.









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   Jan > Jan 8

                   Re: Invitation To Cydonia Mailing List

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:57:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 08:16:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Invitation To Cydonia Mailing List


 >Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 01:32:53 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Invitation To Cydonia Mailing List
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Cydonian Imperative: Rationale
 >by Mac Tonnies

<snip>

 >We must change official policy regarding the Cydonian
 >formations; it is up to us.

 >{To join the Cydonian Imperative, and receive all future
 >installments, send email to alintelbot@aol.com asking to be
 >added to the list.}

Dear Mac:

I'm not about to join any groups, not even those I agree with.

I can agree with you on one matter however, that some time and
resources should be devoted to laying the "Cydonia Face" matter
to rest.

Each of us has our own opinions of course.

Mine is that the Cydonia Face is am utterly useless and random
pile of rocks; to the extent that natural Martian geology can
provide "random" features.

I am equally amazed that this matter is still being tossed
around. Again, that is my personal opinion.

I'm sorry the lost lander probe didn't touch down right on the
forehead of the "face". Some sort of plateau must be safer than
the actual landing spot.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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               Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening

From: Sue Strickland <strick@H2Net.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:37:36 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 09:58:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening


 >Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:17:56 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:53:40 EST
 >>Subject: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Filer's Files #01--2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >>George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >>January 6, 2000,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
 >>Free Daily UFO/ET Newsletter via E-mail!
 >>http://www.ufonetwork.com/
 >>Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. Chuck Warren Webmaster.


Dear Bob Durant via George or Whoever Started This Thread

<snip>

 >>THE GREAT AWAKENING FOR A REMARKABLE NEW CENTURY

 >><snip>

 >>PULL OUT THE POLYGRAPH

 >>Researcher Bob Durant writes, "In the unlikely event that a
 >>Bigelow or a Firmage or a Rockefeller should ask my opinion
 >>about the wisest way to invest money in UFO research, I would
 >>reply at once: sign up a good polygraph examiner.  Yes, a
 >>polygraph, commonly known as the "lie detector."

I'm sure I'm not the only one on this list that thinks this is
another ridiculous idea.  After taking such a test, despite the
fact that the machine may have been tested prior to my taking
the test, I can hear it now:

Tester: Aren't you interested in how you scored?

Sue     Why? I'm not interested in whether your machine is
          broken or works.

Tester: Well, the machine says you were telling the truth.

Sue:    Then your machine works. Big Deal.

Tester: No, actually, I think it's broken. You broke it. It
         worked fine before you took the test.

End of (or continuation) of same argument.

Sue Strickland,

just another experiencer.







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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #333

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:23:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 10:19:55 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #333


Apology to MW #333 (For January 8, 2000)

The first time that I've used this date, I pen this rhyme to
you. Two thousand! Crawling digits on the move (all four!),
contrived but *true*. Still, what a wondrous reach we have, for
all exceeding grasp, in this last year of the century -- can we
soar and cleave at last? Or will we suffer sad defeat because we
were unbrave -- take the first low road encountered just because
we liked the grade (though "we" is so inaccurate -- we are
dragged down in distress by secret keepers we don't know <and
"for our *good*", I'll bet>)?

Though actually penned a few days prior (to the touted Y2K), I
have an upbeat feeling that we'll see such better days. It'll
take more toleration, and a richly opened mind -- and if we
*live* we shall not *die* . . . such satisfaction, find! We
won't forget the music, and the art lives by its side -- be
won't dismiss the poetry, so GOOD for our insides. We'll really
teach the real deal, and won't heroize our slime -- we'll be
MORE than even handed as we learn some cleaner rhyme. The Earth
becomes the garden we can carry in our hearts, our knowledge
gained so gracefully, and each shall WANT to do their part.

We won't let smirking tyranny use democracy as a tool to destroy
that same democracy, as it's when we do we're fools. We'll curb
our sociopathy as it becomes acute. We won't let folks run
rampant when it contradicts some truth. We won't condone
majorities that would USE a tyrant's tools; we won't let loud
minorities, leaning right, control our schools. We won't shut up
for bullies puling mocking, glad derision. We'll avoid the
incredulity, and we'll make informed decisions.

Perhaps we'll find the courage reaching out to timeless space.
Perhaps we shall accept the FACT that we are but *one* race.
Perhaps we'll go along our path progressing ever UPWARDS.
Perhaps we'll be inclusive, and give up our plodding backwards.
Perhaps we'll house the homeless, and alleviate the poor --
perhaps we'll find the keys for locks that complicate our doors.
Perhaps we'll find the courage to admit that UFO's are more than
mere anomaly -- they are the future, Joe.

. . . And we might have our grasp a little closer to our reach.
Or we might cure diseases with genetics we can teach. Yes -- we
might live *forever* with some fundamental change to the manner
we do business that is there within our range!  In Babylon God
noticed it. *He* said, "they would be as US." *He* said, "we
must smite them MIGHTILY, to discorporate their trust." So *He*
mixed up our language and we went our separate ways, and
confusion still runs rampant to the time of present day. It IS
cooperation (for ourselves) that angers God. That we would dare
to lift our eyes, and think without his nod. Demand to see his
books like striking workers he has made. And why the hell we
striking? Answer THAT to seize the day!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Restore John Ford.

--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 8 January>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 21:43:01 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 12:47:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:18:43 +0100
 >From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it>
 >Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hello Jenny!

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 19:45:12 +0000
 >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Steuart Campbell reckons it was a mirage of mercury or some such
 >>planet. I think that's a bit unlikely!

 >Wasn't his first "explanation" a sort of "black ball lightning"?
 >(or is my memory wrong?)

 >If I remember, Steuart was at first oriented toward an "it's all
 >natural phenomena" line. He changed his mind to a "it's all and
 >always mirages of stars/planets" at a later date (circa 1985).
 >Is that right?

In fact originally Steurt Campbell was oriented to a theory of demonic
origin for UFOs, but in those days he still spelt his name "Stuart".

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk







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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:45:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


Hello List:

I guess we won't avoid discussing the Arnold sightings in the
year 2000 either, so I just decided to be the first one this
year (yes, I think so).

Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain
ridges.

This year I will just refer to what Arnold told some of the
newspapers - and - mention a report from the prospector F.M.
Johnson, being on the ground up in the Cascades on - apparently
- the same day as Arnold made his sightings. And then, prepare a
comparison between the main observations as reported by the two
men. (I guess that most of this stuff is well known to you, but
the Johnson reports were fairly new to me, and I just decided to
systemize them a little bit.)

Reference is made to the following "Arnold website":

http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947a.htm


Thus, some of the significant observations made by Arnold (as he
told to the newspapers), were as follows:

1. He sighted nine saucer-like aircraft flying in formation

2. They were flying at an immense rate of speed

3. He estimated they were at an altitude between 9,500 and
10,000 feet

4. He clocked them from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams, arriving at
the "amazing" speed of about 1200 miles an hour.

5. Talking about it to a man from Ukiah in Pendleton this
morning, whose name he did not get (it was maybe not Johnson;
see below), he was amazed to learn that the man had sighted the
same aerial objects yesterday afternoon from the mountains in
the Ukiah section!

6. He said that in flight they appeared to weave in an (sic) out
in formation

7. They were silvery and shiny and seemed to be shaped like a
pie plate

8. He could not find any (vertical) tails on them (when viewed
edge-on)

9. He counted nine of them

10. The objects remained in view slightly less than two minutes
from the time he first noticed them

11. In addition: Arnold estimated the length of the objects as
approximately equal in angular size to the spacing of engines on
a DC-4 at 15 miles. Assume he was right, with the spacing about
60 ft. Then the objects would be 4/60 x 15 = 1 mile away (from
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m25-006.shtml ).


Reference is then made to the following "Johnson websites":

http://services.csi.it/~ufo/arn_fbi1.jpg

http://www.project1947.com/fig/johns47.htm


Some of the significant observations made by Johnson (as told to
the Air Force), were as follows:

1. Prospector in the Mt Adams district on 24 June 1947; being a
prospector for the past 40 years

2. He was using a telescope; picking up objects within 10 miles

3. He observed 6-7 similarly looking objects - from his position
in the Cascades

4. They were real, and nothing like them he ever saw before.

5. They were passing at approx. 6,000 feet (above sea level).

6. "They" were round; 30 feet in diameter; "tapering sharply to
a point in the lead end in an oval shape" (at least _one_ of
them; the one he was watching with his telescope)

7. Bright top surface

8. He "did not hear any noise as you would from a plane"

9. There was "an object in the tail" and looked like a big hand
of a clock shifting from side to side like a big magnet

10. The speed seemed to be greater than anything he ever saw

11. They reflected the sun

12. One of the discs were procooding in the southeasterly direction

13. He was observing this disc for 45 - 60 seconds

14. The was at least "one cloud" up in the air that day.

15. They didn't fly in any particular formation - when observed
by Johnson

16. He remained in the Cascades for several days, after the
sightings

17. He had a combination of compass and watch; the compass hand
was waving from one side to the other during pass-over of the
disc(s)


Other observations by myself - when comparing what they both
have been reporting:

- When Johnson mentiones "tail", he means the aft part of the
"fuselage"; not the vertical tail part, as seen from an edge-on
direction up in the air.

- He did not mention anything about noises _different_ from
planes' noises. (We _could_ of course assume that there weren't
any noises involved at all....)

- He didn't report seeing Arnold's plane up in the air, though.

- It is not quite certain whether the man Arnold's mentioning in
the newspaper is Mr. Johnson; Johnson, though, reported that he
remained up in the mountains for "several days" after the
sightings....

- There were _some deviations_ in the altitude estimations,
maybe due to that Arnold saw the objects for twice as long time
as Johnson

- Arnold didn't see any "big hand of a clock" in the tail (but,
this _might_ be the "different" craft); in any case, a very
special observation from Johnson...but that was because he had a
telescope, only some 1,000 feet away - below the craft

- Arnold didn't register any compass disturbances from _his
distance_ up in the air, approx. _1 mile_ away, at approx. the
same altitude as the discs.

- There were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground.

- Arnold reported a clear day; Johnson a ("somewhat") cloudy day
(at least one cloud).

- Johnson is likely to have recognized a bird from a plane with
his telescope; he didn't mention the word "bird" at all in his
report(s).

- Johnson was a generation older than Arnold.


Conclusion:

We should _really_ assume that both of them were credible
persons and observers, and that they both told the truth to the
Air Force in their reports. (Or, what interests did they have in
not telling the truth? Were they both specifically looking for
very much attention?)

Should we pay some specific attention to the compass
disturbances - that there were _none_ (reported by Arnold) up in
the air, 1 mile (1,600 m) away from the objects, but still there
were disturbances on the ground, some 1,000 feet (300 m)
below....?

This _could_ possibly assume some pulse radar control - given
_no pelicans_...... (The pulse radar beams _should_ - in my
opinion -  really reach almost everywhere around the
objects..... but I'm not an expert on this.)

But, the most interesting Johnson observation was the "big hand
of a clock" in the tail of (at least one) of the objects - and
the associated magnetic disturbances.

Further, there were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground
- thus the object speeds couldn't possibly be higher than the
speed of sound (700 mph).


Which one of these two guys had the best imagination/fantasy?
Well, the List members should judge for themselves which one of
these men who are the most credible.

When ruling out any conspiracy theory, both of them - highly
likely - _did_ observe some strange craft on - apparently - the
_same_ day.


Best regards,

Asgeir






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                 More On Giant Space Snowballs Hitting Earth

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 15:44:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:51:44 -0500
Subject: More On Giant Space Snowballs Hitting Earth


Hi everyone.

Below is an update on the incredible news announcement over 2
1/2 years ago that the Earth was being bombarded by about 20
space snowballs or small comets, each weighing 20 to 40 tons,
every minute.

At that time I commented that if these previously unobserved but
huge snowballs were entering the Earth atmosphere at such a
large rate, then this would suggest that the few UFOs we did
observe in the Earth's upper atmosphere should be even much more
numerous than space snowballs.

Nick Balaskas

-----


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

PRESS RELEASES ON ASTRONOMY FORWARDED TO THE NEWS MEDIA VIA THE
AMERICAN ASTRONOMICAL SOCIETY.

Contact:  Gary Galluzzo, Science Writer, University News
Services, University of Iowa
Office:  (319) 384-0009  E-mail:  gary-galluzzo@uiowa.edu

UI researcher fails to detect small comets

IOWA CITY, Iowa -- University of Iowa astronomy professor Robert
Mutel announced today that an eight-month search using an
Arizona-based telescope has failed to detect evidence supporting
a 13-year-old theory that small comets composed of snow are
continually bombarding the Earth.

Mutel and co-author John Fix, professor of astronomy and Dean of
the College of Science at the University of Alabama in
Huntsville, presented their findings at the annual meeting of
the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in San Francisco. In their
paper, they described their examination of more than 2,700
photographic images taken with the Iowa Robotic Observatory
(IRO), located south of Tucson, Ariz., between Sept. 24, 1998
and June 11, 1999.

"We failed to find evidence that small comets exist," Mutel
said. "At the same time, no such search can entirely disprove
their existence. But if the small comets do exist, they are
present in far smaller numbers than previously predicted."

The small comet theory, developed by fellow UI professor Louis
Frank and UI research scientist John Sigwarth, holds that about
20 snow comets weighing 20 to 40 tons each disintegrate in the
Earth's atmosphere every minute. Frank, an internationally known
experimental space physicist, defended the small comet theory in
a paper published in the January 1, 1999 issue of the AGU
Journal of Geophysical Research-Space Physics.  The paper
described how a mathematical formula was used to filter out
instrument noise, or static, from data gathered by NASA's Polar
satellite. The results showed that the dark spots, or
atmospheric holes, photographed by cameras aboard the Polar
satellite vary in size and number when photographed at different
times and at different altitudes. However, some researchers
continued to believe that the dark spots appearing in the images
are caused by instrument noise.

Mutel and Fix said that their search using the 20-inch IRO
reflector telescope was designed so that expected trails would
be easily seen without the need for elaborate statistical
analysis of faint trails. Observations were made each month
within one week of the new moon to maximize sensitivity to faint
objects. The computer-controlled IRO telescope was used to
produce multiply shuttered images to distinguish cosmic ray
tracks, sensor imperfections and other artifacts from potential
small comet trails. The telescope searched for objects moving in
the same direction and orbital plane as the Earth at a distance
of about 33,000 miles from the Earth.

Out of a total of 6,148 images made, 2,718 were suitable for
detection of object trails with magnitude 16.5  (about 10,000
times fainter than the faintest stars visible with the naked
eye) or brighter -- easily bright enough to detect the small
comets. The images were recorded on CD ROM, analyzed at the UI,
and remain available for independent analysis on the web at

http://denali.physics.uiowa.edu/rlm

Among several UI undergraduates who assisted on the project were
Christopher Anson of Muscatine and William Peterson of Iowa
City, both seniors. Mutel and Fix said that the search, which
was conducted at Frank's suggestion, should have detected more
than 80 small comets if they are present in the predicted
numbers.

Frank, an experimenter, co-investigator or principal
investigator on some 40 spacecraft and an AGU Fellow, first
announced the small comet theory in 1986, after examining images
recorded in photographs taken by Dynamics Explorer 1.  Frank and
his colleagues had designed and built a special camera to take
pictures of the northern lights, including the first images of
the complete ring of the northern lights from above the North
Pole. Some of the images contained unexplained dark spots, or
atmospheric holes.  After eliminating the possibility of
equipment malfunction and numerous other explanations, Frank and
Sigwarth concluded that the atmospheric holes represented clouds
of water vapor being released high above Earth's atmosphere by
the disintegration of small comets composed mostly of snow.

They calculated that more than 25,000 comets enter the
atmosphere each day.  At that rate, the comets would have added
about one inch of water to the Earth's oceans every 20,000 years
-- enough to fill the oceans over billions of years. Frank said
that not only their small size -- 20-to-30-feet in diameter --
makes observation difficult, but also that water striking the
upper atmosphere glows very faintly as compared to the bright
glow of metal and rock in solid meteors.  The small comet theory
was in the news again after the 1996 launch of Polar, with its
two sensitive visible light cameras and one far-ultraviolet
light camera, offered sharper photographic images. At the May
1997 AGU meeting Frank showed a series of Polar satellite
photographs that included a picture of a small comet the size of
a two-bedroom house disintegrating thousands of miles above the
Atlantic Ocean.

Mutel and Fix said that they were glad to be able to contribute
data to the discussion, and added that the debate over the small
comet theory will likely continue for many years to come.

Mutel, a UI faculty member since 1975, supervised the design and
construction of the Iowa Robotic Observatory, which is shared
among the astronomy departments at the three Iowa Regents
Universities. He directed the University's North Liberty Radio
Observatory from 1976 until 1991 and was Executive Officer and
treasurer for the U.S. Very Long Baseline Interferometry
Consortium from 1986 through 1992.  Mutel served on the National
Science Foundation Undergraduate Curriculum Advisory Board from
1992 through 1995.  He was named a UI Faculty Scholar from 1983
to 1985, received a UI Collegiate Teaching Award in 1997, Iowa
Academy of Sciences Distinguished Iowa Science Teacher Award in
1997, and the UI President's Award for Technology Innovation in
1998. He has published more than 100 scientific articles in
professional journals.

Prior to becoming Dean of the College of Science at the
University of Alabama in Huntsville, Fix was on the University
of Iowa faculty from 1969-1999. His research focused on
observational astronomy and ranged from the structure of
circumstellar clouds to an investigation of the zodiacal light
using the Dynamics Explorer satellite. He served as executive
secretary of the National Science Foundation Astronomy Advisory
Committee from 1977-78 and in 1991 received the University's M.L
Huit Achievement Award and Faculty Achievement Award. From
1992-98 he served as associate dean for research and
development. He has published more than 60 scientific articles
in professional journals.









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                     Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town

From: Vicki Carlson <AGENTA000D@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 16:17:36 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:58:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town


 >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 05:19:06 -0500
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Thanks to researcher Jerry Hamm for informing of the following
 >item:


 >"Explosive sound shatters quiet of Bloomville night"

 >Source: The Blade
 >Toledo, Ohio

 >Date - Tuesday, January 4, 2000

 >Website URL: http://www.toledoblade.com/editorial/news/0a04shat.htm


Did anyone think that the bomb sounds are HARRP projects being
tested..... maybe this is what happens when the power is turned
up!

Vicki








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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 21:25:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:59:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


For general information - it may have gone largely unnoticed
that there was a BBC Scotland documentary about 3-4 years ago
and which offered an explanation for this case.

If I recall correctly, Bob suffered from epilepsy - something
that wasn't highly, if at all, previously publicised.

The journalists identified connections between an epileptic fit
and the 'strange' visions, odour and 'passing out' which Bob
reported experiencing at the time.

Some other evidence when looked at again, also seemed to
possibly have a mundane explanation.

I can only point out the existence of this material, it would
really need to be researched and evaluated by anyone interested
in the case.


James Easton.
E-Mail: voyager@ukonline.co.uk












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               Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 02:35:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 00:03:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening


 >Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 07:37:36 -0700
 >From: Sue Strickland <strick@H2Net.net>
 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 04:17:56 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:53:40 EST
 >>>Subject: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Filer's Files #01--2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >>>George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >>>January 6, 2000,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
 >>>Free Daily UFO/ET Newsletter via E-mail!
 >>>http://www.ufonetwork.com/
 >>>Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. Chuck Warren Webmaster.

 >Dear Bob Durant via George or Whoever Started This Thread

 ><snip>

 >>>THE GREAT AWAKENING FOR A REMARKABLE NEW CENTURY

 >>><snip>

 >>>PULL OUT THE POLYGRAPH

 >>>Researcher Bob Durant writes, "In the unlikely event that a
 >>>Bigelow or a Firmage or a Rockefeller should ask my opinion
 >>>about the wisest way to invest money in UFO research, I would
 >>>reply at once: sign up a good polygraph examiner.  Yes, a
 >>>polygraph, commonly known as the "lie detector."

 >I'm sure I'm not the only one on this list that thinks this is
 >another ridiculous idea.  After taking such a test, despite the
 >fact that the machine may have been tested prior to my taking
 >the test, I can hear it now:

 >Tester: Aren't you interested in how you scored?

 >Sue     Why? I'm not interested in whether your machine is
 >        broken or works.

 >Tester: Well, the machine says you were telling the truth.

 >Sue:    Then your machine works. Big Deal.

 >Tester: No, actually, I think it's broken. You broke it. It
 >       worked fine before you took the test.

 >End of (or continuation) of same argument.

 >Sue Strickland,

 >just another experiencer.


Regarding the polygraph testing: This machine is *far* from
being 99% accurate. If it was that accurate then it would be
admitted in court and would meet the Rules of Evidence. Though
the machine may be highly accurate, polygraph machines are more
of a psychological tool used by interrogators than a
scientific/physiological one. The other problem is getting the
lying parasites out there to actually agree to taking one. And
Bob Durant is right when he says it won't work on sociopaths, so
that means most of the lying morons in ufology would pass the
damn test anyway.

I applaud Bob Durant's efforts in trying to get to the bottom of
Cooper and his alleged MJ-12 documents. First rule in
investigation: Always confirm the source of the evidence and/or
information you receive. If you can't establish that, you might
as well dump your investigation unless you have an actual UFO or
dead alien dumped on your doorstep or put in your mail box. I
think many people in ufology should invest some time in common
sense. It's hard doing anything in this field with jerks out
there who can get on late night radio programs, sell books and
videos, do lectures and whatever else without too many people
asking them hard questions or verifying their claims.

Look at Lee Shargel. He was asked to present at the UFO Congress
and not a single person checked his credentials before he was
invited. He made the entire UFO community look like a bunch of
asses... this is nothing new as there are many irresponsible
people out there doing the same thing right now. Unfortunately,
this same mistake is being made again by the UFO Congress in
having the bogus Jonathan "I Killed A Rubber Alien" Reed present
at the next UFO Congress in Nevada.

The only suggestion that I have (which is also ridiculous) is to
start filing class action lawsuits on behalf of the UFO
community against these con artists and frauds. If, by some act
of God, you were able to successfully sue the hell out of them,
then you could take the money and put it towards something
useful... say, scientific investigation or actually training
many so-called UFO investigators on how to actually conduct an
investigation. Whether you like him or not, Joe Firmage made a
great point regarding the fact that the UFO community is unable
to police itself. Don't give Bob Durant too hard of a time for
at least trying to do something positive. I wish I had some
answers on how to bring back credibility so that UFOlogy could
actually get some scientific funding that it seriously needs in
order to provide what everyone else is screaming
about...evidence.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog










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                       Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 1-8-99

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 19:36:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 00:10:59 -0500
Subject: Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 1-8-99


----------------------------------------------------------------
                     Jeff Rense Weekly E-News
----------------------------------------------------------------

                          The Week Ahead
                        1-9-00 thru 1-15-00

             Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
                        From sightings.com

                Jeff Rense E-News is distributed
                exclusively by Free Subscription.

                 --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                      * FROM JEFF'S DESK *

We had the chance to rerun the one hour Uri Geller interview of
December 7 this past week...and even via tape he was able to
facilitate the start up of at least a couple more broken
watches...

    Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000
    From Ronald L. Stanley <rstan@centuryinter.net>
    To: eotl@west.net
    Subject: Uri

    Hey Jeff, I tried the 'start the watch' trick even though it
    is a recording. I have two watches that have not worked in 20
    years. Neither one of them have second hands and one of them
    has no minute hand. The one with the minute hand has started
    working. After observing the sans minute hand one, the hour
    hand has moved. I am unable to hear well, so could not hear
    them ticking.  A big kudos to Uri.  LOL

---------------
Now, here's a another one of those amazing commentaries on
contemporary society that speaks for itself.

    From GEETofPA@aol.com
    Subject: Resumes

    The common bain of most employers is the lack of competent,
    capable employees. The following resume and cover letters
    quotes were published in the July 21, 1997 issue of Fortune
    Magazine.  Wonder how much things have changed in that last
    three years...

     1. "I have lurnt Word Perfect 6.0 computor and spreasheet
         progroms."
     2. "Am a perfectionist and rarely if if ever forget details."
     3. "Received a plague for Salesperson of the Year."
     4. "Wholly responsible for two (2) failed financial
        institutions."
     5. "Reason for leaving last job: maturity leave."
     6. "Failed bar exam with relatively high grades."
     7. "It's best for employers that I not work with people."
     8. "Let's meet, so you can 'ooh' and 'aah' over my
        experience."
     9. "I was working for my mom until she decided to move."
    10. "Marital status: single. Unmarried. Unengaged. Uninvolved.
        Nocommitments."
    11. "I have an excellent track record, although I am not a
        horse."
    12. "I am loyal to my employer at all costs. Please feel free
        to respond to my resume on my office voicemail."
    13. "My goal is to be a meteorologist. But since I possess no
        training in meteorology, I suppose I should try stock
        brokerage"
    14. "I procrastinate, especially when the task is unpleasant."
    15. "Personal interests: donating blood. Fourteen gallons so
        far."
    16. "Instrumental in ruining entire operation for a Midwest
        chain store."
    17. "Note: Please don't misconstrue my 14 jobs as 'job-
        hopping'.  I have never quit a job."
    18. "Marital status: often. Children: various."
    19. "The company made me a scapegoat, just like my three
        previous employers."
    20. "Finished eighth in my class of ten."
    21. "References: none. I've left a path of destruction behind
        me."

   THESE QUOTES WERE TAKEN FROM ACTUAL PERFORMANCE EVALUATIONS...

     1. "Since my last report, this employee has reached rock
        bottom and has started to dig."
     2. "I would not allow this employee to breed."
     3. "This associate is really not so much of a has-been, but
        more of a definitely won't be."
     4. "This young lady has delusions of adequacy."
     5. "Works well when under constant supervision and cornered
        like a rat in a trap."
     6. "When she opens her mouth, it seems that this is only to
        change whichever foot was previously in there."
     7. "He sets low personal standards and then consistently
        fails to achieve them."
     8. "This employee is depriving a village somewhere of an
        idiot."
     9. "This employee should go far-and the sooner he starts, the
        better."

    THESE ARE ACTUAL LINES FROM MILITARY PERFORMANCE APPRAISALS

     1. Got into the gene pool while the lifeguard wasn't
        watching.
     2. A room temperature IQ.
     3. Got a full 6-pack, but lacks the plastic thingy to hold it
        all together.
     4. A gross ignoramus -- 144 times worse than an ordinary
        ignoramus.
     5. A photographic memory but with the lens cover glued on.
     6. As bright as Alaska in December.
     7. Gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train
        isn't coming.
     8. He's so dense, light bends around him.
     9. If he were any more stupid, he'd have to be watered twice
        a week.
    10. It's hard to believe that he beat 1,000,000 other sperm.
    11. Takes him 2 hours to watch 60 minutes.
    12. Wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.

                   --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

         "Time is like a river made up of the events that
        happen and its current is strong; no sooner does
        anything appear than it is swept away, and another
        comes in its place, and will be swept away too."
                -- Marcus Aurelius Antonius, Meditations

                    --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                         EDITOR'S CORNER

PLEASE NOTE: The listserver has had an interesting glitch - the
system reset hundreds of thousands of subscribers' settings to
a mode that does not show links as clickable hyperlinks. The
engineers are working tirelessly to reset the system but in the
meantime, I guess we'll have to step back in time a little and
cut & paste links.  We apologize for the temporary inconvenience.
At least we're just stepping back a year or two rather than
100 years!

                   --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

            THE UNIVERSAL ONENESS (Beyond Our Galaxy II)
                       by David H. Lewis
The infinite powers of the human mind and our universal energy.
  Includes telekinesis, levitation, Secrets to the Seven Keys,
   reincarnation, the master computer, its location, and more.
          http://www.immunotex.com/books/lewis/oneness/

                    --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                         * TOP STORIES *

            Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
                     http://www.sightings.com

   * 1999's Disasters - Far From History's Worst Says USGS
   * Where's My Orgasmatron?
   * Biggest Financial Scandal (CAFR) In US History Revealed On TV
   * Buchanan Blasts 'Stealth' NWO - Calls For Massive Reform
   * NATO Excused Mass Murder Of Civilians By Using Speeded-Up
     Film
   * The Columbus Effect - Columbus, Cortez, And The NSA
   * Harrison Stabbing And Masonic Symbolism
   * Sunspots Could Wreak Havoc During The Next 18 Months
   * Century's Bloodiest Villains... And Greatest Heroes
   * Corrupt IRS Officials Face Exposure In Dope Bust - Part One
   * Pesticide Exposure Threatens Children At School
   * CJD And Mad Cow/BSE Shown To Be The SAME Infectious Protein
   * UK Flu Victims So Numerous Some Being Sent To French
     Hospitals
   * Disasters In The Mind - Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
   * $26 Billion UK Pounds Wiped Off Shares As Market Bloodbath
     Continues
   * WND Petition To Keep The Internet FREE
   * Satellites To Stop Cars From Speeding
   * 300 Million Trees Downed In French Storms - 'A Catastrophe'
   * Heavy Night Chemtrails Reported Over Indiana
   * Y2K - Police Computer Charges Seniors With Multiple Crimes
   * Y2K? - Computer Glitch Delays US Airline Departures
   * Y2K - 'Next Few Months Will Be The Toughest' - Bug Still
     Lurks
   * Arctic Ice Thinning At An Alarming Rate
   * Britain Appoints Team To Save World From Asteroids

         Read the entire text of these stories and more at
                     http://www.sightings.com

                   --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

             Culpeper's Complete Herbal. 1653 edition
          The old knowledge. Over 360 herbs, plants, their
          preparation and use in a multitude of disorders.
      Health in the hands of the people. (The Dr.'s hated it.)

            http://www.immunotex.com/books/culpeper/

                   --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                     * THIS WEEK'S GUESTS *
                          1-9 Thru 1-14

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due to late
breaking stories, etc)

SUN 1-9
    Elizabeth Baron - 27 Successful Exorcisms
    Bill Hamilton - Director, SkyWatch International

MON 1-10
    Dave Talbott/Wal Thornhill:  The Electric Universe
    Bob Mayer:  Best-Selling Sci-Fi Author On Area 51

TUE 1-11
    Peter Davenport:  NUFORC Report
    Dr. Dean Bonlie:  Magnetic Sleep Pads

WED 1-12
    Nancy Leder:  Zetatalk

THU 1-13
    Pending

FRI 1-14
    Brad Steiger:  Master Of The Paranormal

Live Real Audio Broadcasts & Archives: http://www.sightings.com

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                                 ET Combos?

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 15:16:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 00:49:25 -0500
Subject: ET Combos?


Hi All,

I can't but think about the combos of ETs witnessed on craft...

In the Travis Walton case, we all heard how he witnessed beings
that more or less resembled "greys" and then later "humanoids".

If this is the case are we to take it that there is some kind of
cross co-operation between ET species regarding abduction
phenomena?

Or to put it another way, is it common throughout the decades
of abduction reports & investigation that different or multiple
ETs have been seen on board these craft?

Another question I would like to pose: In cases of humanoid
looking ETs being seen during these experiences, have they been
seen to play a master role? i.e. are they the one's who have the
abduction under their control?

Are humanoid sightings still being reported during abductions?

If so what is the main description of these humanoids?

Are there cases where these humanoids have imparted information
to the abductee on why they are going through what they are? I
mention this simply, because of the reports of the "greys"
talking directly into the mind of the abductees.

Regards,

Roy..








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             Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 22:34:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 00:52:59 -0500
Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'


 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 19:04:08 +0000
 >From: Dave Bower <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:29:26 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >>Subject: TLC's 'The Ultimate Ten Unexplained Mysteries'
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >I suppose the point I'm trying to make is until someone can come
 >up with some solid evidence on UFOs or abductions this whole
 >thing will remain in the end of the news comedy slot along with
 >the two headed lamb and 'oh my God... NASA's lost another one'.

Hello Dave,

An interesting point of view considering the implications.

Maybe we should reflect on the nature of information as it is
presented to all mortals every day.

Do you believe that matters not regularly covered by the media
do not deserve to be? I am sure you have noted that
"mediasation" is not exactly an exercise in democracy - quite to
the contrary in fact.

Please re-read your newspaper or, better, rewind your favorite
news program. Remove the slo-mo and put yourself in normal speed.

A beer might help too.

If you take what you see seriously, no five cents therapy will
ever get you out of it.

If you don't, I suggest you close the TV and buy a newspaper
with comic strips in it. If you're looking for the truth, please
consult yesterday's sport results. If you're looking for
comfort, by all means read the comics strips.

As for the rest of the newspaper, makes me think of this thing
on drugs: you know, here is what your brain looks like with
drugs: splash! a scrambled egg.

Only, this time, it's cooked.

Serge Salvaille







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               Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus

From: Alex Persky <alexvi@mail.ru>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 12:36:13 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:43:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Cigar-shaped UFO - Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus


 >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 02:55:07 +0200
 >From: Alex Persky <alexvi@mail.ru>
 >Subject: Cigar-shaped UFO -- Vitebsk, Rep. of Belarus

 >Sighting Report

 >TIME: 24 Dec 1999, 08:44am GMT+2
 >LOCATION: near Yurieva Gorka, Vitebsk, Republic of Belarus
 >WITNESSES: Oleg V. Kirillov (programmer, age 29) and his boss.

 >COMMENTS:

 >The cigar-shaped UFO (brighter than clouds, color blue+red (the
 >color of a clowd at sunset), like an aircraft, but without wings
 >and tail, angular size about 3�x0.5�, the front part profile was
 >rounded & asymmetric, the rear part seemed blured) was observed
 >by two witnesses.

 >The object was moving NE, elevation about 40�, climb ~5�.

<snip>

 >The possible explanation suggested by the witness -- mirage,
 >during that night (Dec 23-Dec 24) the air temperature decreased
 >from -1�C to -10�C (approximately).

Researchers,

All the figures mean degrees, not meters, not pounds (character
"�" was encoded incorrectly). "Yurieva Gorka" is located within
the city. And it was reported about two witnesses, not three (Re
Joseph Trainor's "UFO Roundup", vol.5,  N1, 6 Jan 2000).


Sincerely,

Alex Persky







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                      Yorkshire, UK UFO Society Website

From: Dave Baker <davbak@globalnet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 12:27:19 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:50:47 -0500
Subject: Yorkshire, UK UFO Society Website


Hi y'all,

For those of you interested - and, hell those of you who don't
give a damn, the Yorkshire UFO Society website, still under
construction, can be accessed at - www.yufos.ic24.net where you
can find out all about us.

Dave Baker, YUFOS...

"Come and join us, come and join us!"







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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:31:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:58:52 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:15:14 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Now when you put this on the list my impression was that you had
 >spent some time researching about the Pleiades system? Now that
 >I have asked you to produce YOUR OWN RESEARCH into the Pleiades,
 >you keep referring me to a URL which shows me a well taken
 >picture of the Pleiades? How has your research proven to you
 >that the Pleiades is >>too young to support anything like life
 >ye>, could you please publish your findings on the list as I am
 >sure others will be interested to read it, failing that please
 >point me to a web site where I can read your research?

Hi, Roy!

While Bill may not have personally performed observations and
calculations concerning the Pleiades, his statements represent
the scientific consensus on the age and state of that star
cluster.

There are basically two major types of star clusters. Open
clusters, such as the Pleiades, represent a set of stars which
have only recently formed and, through light pressure and solar
wind activity, ejected most of the remaining embryonic nebula.
Globular clusters, largely confined to the galactic halo are
older, and probably date from a time near that of the formation
of the galaxy. These ages are established using a complex set of
physics calculations and spectral observations. Hot, blue-white
stars, such as those in the Pleiades are invariably young,
because their rate of nuclear fusion is such as to cause them to
run out of fuel within a relatively short period, compared to a
star like the Sun.

BTW, when I was a teenager, I did perform UBV photometry on the
Pleiades, for the purpose of determining their spectral type,
and, indirectly their age.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, music and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------








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                  Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917 - Book

From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:27:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:22:17 -0500
Subject: Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917 - Book


Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917

In 1917, from May 13 to October 13 ocurred at a rural spot of
Portugal, Cova da Iria, near the village of FATIMA, a serie of
paranormal/religious events which turned to be spread and
accepted around the catholic world as "apparitions of the Virgin
Mary".

Among ufologists on the other hand, there are many who feel that
the events at FATIMA, in 1917, may have a close and familiar
ufological perspective. Jacques Valle or Paul Misraki, were
some of the researchers who suspected of that kind of related
modern "unidentified aerial phenomena".

Joaquim Fernandes and Fina d'Armada, two Portuguese historians,
challenged themselves to prove these claims, and after six years
of intensive effort they succeded in assembling an impressive
body of documentation and testimonial evidence that suggests new
hypothesis to explain the so-called "Virgin Mary apparitions".

In 1982 the two researchers publish a 460 pages book untitled
"Interveno Extraterrestre em Ftima - as aparies e o
fenmeno OVNI" (Amadora, Livraria Bertrand) ("Extraterrestrial
Intervention in Fatima - the apparitions and the UFO
phenomenon"),which was reedited in 1995 in a revised version by
Editorial Estampa, Lisboa, under the title "Tha Fatima
Apparitions and the UFO Phenomenon".

This great work - the most detailed thesis ever published by
Portuguese scholars - on the contrary of most the foreign books
about this event is based on first-hand sources, original
interrogations and statements made by the three principal
percipients of the "apparitions", namely Lucia, Francisco and
Jacinta and also a selected group of on hundred first-hand
witnesses of the events.

A few important and forgot issues of the 1917 events were
uncovered by Joaquim Fernandes and Fina d'Armada, such as:

1) - a "fourth percipient" namely Carolina Carreira, whom
describes a "telephatic type of contact with a fair-headed being
of small stature who instilled into her head a repetitive order
described as follows: "Come here and say three Ave Marias, come
and say three Ave Marias...".

2) - a surprised description given by Lucia, the eldest of the
three percipients, when at the "Parochial Enquiry" she spoke of
a "very shining lady, about 1 meter and 10 cms in height, seming
to be between 12 and 15 years old, wearing a narrow skirt, a
jacket and a cloak, all with golden cords, running through them.
She came from "above" and vanished-gradually in the inverse
direction, made no facial movements, nor did she articulate her
lower lips, and moved only her hands from time to time. She had
a luminous BALL in hand and she turned her back towards the
percipients when she departed"

3) - the authors managed to determine the distance parameters of
the so-called "solar phenomenon" of October 13, 1917, from the
witnesses positions on the ground. J. Fernandes and F. d' Armada
found that they were all within a band of 70 meters wide and
running through the Cova da Iria area, center of that
spectacular aerial phenomenon, called by the vast multitude of
people waiting as the "miracle of the sun".

This band, oriented south-north, contained all the witnesses who
reported secondaty effects only experienced during the time of
the "solar phenomenon", that is to say at the moment when the
"solar object" descended in a terrifying parabola over the crowd
of 60,000 people. The effects felt in that band were: 1. sudden
and intense heat; 2. drying of clothing and of the soil; 3.
physiological effects or "miraculous cures".

These kind of effects seems consistents, according some
researchers, like nuclear physicists James McCampbell and
Jean-Pierre Petit (CNRS, France), with a "microwave radiation",
also detected in preliminar samples from "crop circles" spots by
the biophysics dr. W. Levengood. Others studies, conducted by
the Canadian Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineering
and the french Toulouse DERMO laboratories found a "hamming or
buzzing effect" inside the percipients's heads produced by a
microwave radiation between 200and 3000 MHz, and called as
"microwave auditive phenomenon", as well perceived and reported
in the 1917 Fatima apparitions scenario as well".

We look for an audacious, serious editor to translate and edit
an english version of this work full of NEW information and
scientific approach.

Thanks for all the help.

Joaquim Fernandes
University Fernando Pessoa
Praa Nove de Abril, 349
4249-004 Porto
Portugal









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                    Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:39:05 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:27:36 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'

 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:28:19 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:03:18 +0000
 >>>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs In French Paper 'Liberation'
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>One could wonder if the general French _attitude_ towards UFOs
 >>>is changing, if an article like this gets published by a
 >>>national newspaper? Perhaps the French are ahead of the game in
 >>>public acceptance that we are not alone?

 >I have a colleague who gives lectures in France about Crop
 >Circles and has been doing so for some time now, he also has a
 >house in the countryside. He has told me before that the French
 >are very closed minded on UFO's along with general Paranormal
 >events.

 >But since we last spoke, he had a review in a paper about one of
 >his lectures and it seemed to cover the topic okay, so maybe the
 >French are becoming a lot more aware of what is flying in and
 >around their skies?

 >I also know that there are a few more local researchers
 >appearing in France, so maybe France will be on the map this
 >year!

 >Roy..

A friend of mine in Paris sent me that newspaper. I must say
that they don't show any substantive change the general attitude
of French media.

It seems more an individual disposition of the journalist,
perhaps obtained with a better tolerance to these fringe items.

The official responsables for the SEPRA/CNES, in Toulouse, i.e.
J.J. Velasco, have some difficulties to do his job.

Joaquim Fernandes
University Fernando Pessoa
Porto
Portugal









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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:19:17 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:29:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:45:31 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain ridges.

 >This year I will just refer to what Arnold told some of the
 >newspapers - and - mention a report from the prospector F.M.
 >Johnson, being on the ground up in the Cascades on - apparently
 >- the same day as Arnold made his sightings. And then, prepare a
 >comparison between the main observations as reported by the two men.

<.......>

 >11. In addition: Arnold estimated the length of the objects as
 >approximately equal in angular size to the spacing of engines on
 >a DC-4 at 15 miles. Assume he was right, with the spacing about
 >60 ft. Then the objects would be 4/60 x 15 = 1 mile away (from
 >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m25-006.shtml ).

Perhaps you should reread the referenced post by Bruce Maccabee, except this
time try to read it more carefully.  Bruce was calculating how far away 4
foot PELICANS would be to have the same angular size as 60 feet appears at 15
miles.  This was NOT a claim that the objects Arnold saw were only 1 mile
away.

In your list of details reported by Arnold, you also left out the very
important detail that he estimated the objects to be about 23 miles away
because he saw them briefly disappear behind a subpeak of Mt. Rainier.  He
also reported them weaving in and out amongst the peaks of the southern
Cascades, and fading out in the direction of Mt. Adams, about 30 miles away.

 >Some of the significant observations made by Johnson (as told to
 >the Air Force), were as follows:
<......>

 >Other observations by myself - when comparing what they both
 >have been reporting:

 >- He didn't report seeing Arnold's plane up in the air, though.

Not surprising, since Johnson was on Mt. Adams and Arnold was over by Mt.
Rainier, over 30 miles away.

 >- It is not quite certain whether the man Arnold's mentioning in
 >the newspaper is Mr. Johnson; Johnson, though, reported that he
 >remained up in the mountains for "several days" after the
 >sightings....

The man mentioned may have been veteran pilot Richard Rankin, who reported
seeing 10 objects flying in formation over California the day before Arnold.
Rankin and Arnold, I believe, did meet later and compare notes.

 >- There were _some deviations_ in the altitude estimations,
 >maybe due to that Arnold saw the objects for twice as long time
 >as Johnson

Arnold probably got the altitude wrong.  He reported the objects appearing on
his visual horizon and skimming the tops of the Cascades, which would have
placed their altitude at closer to 5000 to 6000 feet instead of 9000 to
10000.   Johnson placed himself at 5000 feet altitude with the objects
appearing to be about 1000 feet higher.
That would resolve the altitude difference.

 >- Arnold didn't see any "big hand of a clock" in the tail (but,
 >this _might_ be the "different" craft); in any case, a very
 >special observation from Johnson...but that was because he had a
 >telescope, only some 1,000 feet away - below the craft

Right, from 25 miles and without a telescope, Arnold wouldn't be able to make
out such details.

 >- Arnold didn't register any compass disturbances from _his
 >distance_ up in the air, approx. _1 mile_ away, at approx. the
 >same altitude as the discs.

No, no, no!!!  James Easton's 4-foot "pelicans" would calculate to about 1
mile away, not the objects Arnold reported.  Arnold placed them at about 25
miles when first seen.  Got it?

 >- There were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground.

 >- Arnold reported a clear day; Johnson a ("somewhat") cloudy day
 >(at least one cloud).

"At least one cloud."  Sounds like a pretty clear day to me even from
Johnson's position, which was NOT the same as Arnold's.

Actually what Johnson reported is that he lost sight of them as they banked
in a cloud.  How you jump to the conclusion from this that Johnson was
reporting a "somewhat" cloudy day is beyond me.

 >- Johnson is likely to have recognized a bird from a plane with
 >his telescope; he didn't mention the word "bird" at all in his report(s).

Yep, no pelicans.

 >- Johnson was a generation older than Arnold.

Yes, so???

 >Conclusion:

 >We should _really_ assume that both of them were credible
 >persons and observers, and that they both told the truth to the
 >Air Force in their reports. (Or, what interests did they have in
 >not telling the truth? Were they both specifically looking for
 >very much attention?)

Yet below, you ask, "Which one of these two guys had the best
imagination/fantasy?"  So do you find the stories credible or not?

 >Should we pay some specific attention to the compass
 >disturbances - that there were _none_ (reported by Arnold) up in
 >the air, 1 mile (1,600 m) away from the objects, but still there
 >were disturbances on the ground, some 1,000 feet (300 m)
 >below....?

Arnold reported them being something like100 times further away than Johnson.
  (Your 1 mile is a strawman.)    Any magnetic field generated by these
objects would be reduced a least a million-fold more at that greater
distance.

Under those circumstances, Kenneth Arnold not reporting compass disturbances
is hardly surprising, is it?

 >This _could_ possibly assume some pulse radar control - given
 >_no pelicans_...... (The pulse radar beams _should_ - in my
 >opinion -  really reach almost everywhere around the
 >objects..... but I'm not an expert on this.)

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here.

 >But, the most interesting Johnson observation was the "big hand
 >of a clock" in the tail of (at least one) of the objects - and
 >the associated magnetic disturbances.

Yes, definitely very interesting.  Assuming Johnson did observe the objects
from as close as 1000 feet (this actually isn't clear from the reports) the
object would have to have to be generating a very large magnetic field on the
order of 10 to 100 Tesla.  Magnetic resonance imagers, by comparison, use
fields on the order of 2 or 3 Tesla.

 >Further, there were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground
 >- thus the object speeds couldn't possibly be higher than the
 >speed of sound (700 mph).

Yes possibly. There are theoretical ways to eliminate sonic
boom.

 >Which one of these two guys had the best imagination/fantasy?

When you say this, you are implying that they were lying.  Yet
elsewhere, you claim you find the stories credible, which is
confusing.  Since English isn't your first language, perhaps you
don't understand that you are contradicting yourself.

 >Well, the List members should judge for themselves which one of
 >these men who are the most credible.

 >When ruling out any conspiracy theory, both of them - highly
 >likely - _did_ observe some strange craft on - apparently - the
 >_same_ day.

Johnson's story picked up where Arnold's left off.  Arnold lost
sight of the objects in the distance as they approached Mt.
Adams.  Johnson saw them closeby while he was on Mt. Adams.

Are you now saying you don't like the pelican theory?

David Rudiak







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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 12:01:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 15:14:20 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:31:36 -0500
To: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Hot, blue-white
 >stars, such as those in the Pleiades are invariably young,
 >because their rate of nuclear fusion is such as to cause them to
 >run out of fuel within a relatively short period, compared to a
 >star like the Sun.

I find the information that the Pleiades are only ten million
years old interesting.  As I have pointed out in a previous
post,  our (human) relationship with and interest in the
Pleiades cuts across all cultures, all religions, and all human
geographic distribution. What we may see here is the remnants of
an ancient religion, at least fifty thousand years old and
probably much, much older. (The Greeks have essentually the same
myth about the formation of the Pleiades as the Australian
Aborigines, and this myth is essentually the same as native
Americans in Florida and also those in Wyoming)

The similarities between the accounts are too great to have been
the result of chance but the marked differences show that there
has been separation for a considerable amount of time from a
common source.

Why would ancient humans have used the Pleiades as an important
prop during religious observations?  Human antiquity goes back
at least four million years and maybe as far as six. Tool use by
humans has been dated to three million years.  Perhaps our
oldest relatives saw the formation of this star cluster or its
aftermath and were so impressed they made it the basis for their
religion.  There is  evidence that the Pleiades have changed
over the eons.  While know as the seven sisters, only six are
clearly visible to the eye.

"Of the seven stars one is at present distinctly fainter than
the other six and there are many myths regarding this so-call
lost Pleiad.  In fact the myths occur in so many ancient
literatures that there is a well established theory that at one
time all seven of the stars were of approximately the same
brightness." Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopaedia










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   Jan > Jan 9

                   Police Report Starfield Camouflage UFO

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 15:46:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 16:07:36 -0500
Subject: Police Report Starfield Camouflage UFO


Thanks to Ron Schaffner for informing of the following newspaper
article:

------

Link URL =
http://www.stlnet.com/postnet/stories.nsf/ByDocID/CDB95E73110536A98625686100418E
43

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Sunday, January 9, 2000

"Police officers in St. Clair County report seeing early-morning
UFO" By Valerie Schremp Of The Post-Dispatch

In the past few days, Millstadt police Officer Craig Stevens has
slept little, taken countless phone messages from national
experts and heard all of the little green men jokes his fellow
officers can muster.

It's amusing -- to a point, he said.

"It's not like I'm the only one who saw it and I'm Joe Blow from
the local bar who just stepped out drunk, you know?"

Stevens, of Highland, and at least three other officers from the
Lebanon, Shiloh and Dupo police departments said they saw
something in the sky early Wednesday -- something that looked
like a UFO.

Shaped like an arrowhead, sprinkled with dimmer lights all over
its surface and three brighter lights on its tail, the thing
made its northeast-to-southwest flight across the Metro East
area about 4 a.m.

The first report came in to Highland police from the owner of a
miniature golf course. He was driving into Lebanon, so the
police contacted Lebanon authorities. The officer there guffawed
at the dispatcher. But he spotted the thing heading toward
Shiloh, and he sped through traffic lights to try to catch up
with it. It reached Shiloh, where an officer there spotted it.

Stevens, sitting in his patrol car in Millstadt on his overnight
shift, heard the radio chatter and drove to the north end of
town. He scanned the sky but saw only airplane lights.

Then he looked west.

"Wow," he thought, jumping out of the car. "This thing's huge!"

He said it moved slowly, like a blimp, about 1,000 feet off the
ground. It was about two stories high and about three times as
long. In addition to the three lights in the back, dimmer lights
sprinkled the entire surface, almost, as he described it, like a
"starfield camouflage."

He grabbed his Polaroid camera and snapped a shot. The object
headed toward Dupo, and Stevens radioed dispatch. The dispatcher
radioed back, reporting an officer there spotted it too.

The Polaroid didn't develop well in the cold, and the image only
shows the three bright lights. At the station, Stevens made an
unofficial police report and sketched a likeness of what he saw.

"It's been driving me nuts since I've seen it," he said. "I
haven't been able to sleep for the last day and a half."

He's searched the Internet for a likeness of the object but can
only find a picture of a "Stealth Blimp" on the Popular
Mechanics Web site. It looked like an experimental military
ship, he said.

The only calls that Scott Air Force Base received about the
object were from the media, a spokeswoman said Saturday. And the
military base's control tower was closed at that hour.

Stevens has also fielded calls from the media, science
institutes, UFO experts, and a former FBI man who had "a hundred
questions." One expert was adamant that people spotted a similar
ship in California the day after Christmas. He and the Lebanon
officer went on Art Bell's nationally broadcast radio show.

Stevens said he is taking the attention, and his sighting, in
stride.

"It didn't scare me; it was cool. I'll never forget it," he said
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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               Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening

From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@torino.ALPcom.it>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 23:01:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:47:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening

UFO watching the Pope at New Year?


 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:53:40 EST
 >Subject: Filer's Files #1--2000 The Great Awakening
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Filer's Files #01--2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern

<snip>

 >ITALY NEW YEAR'S UFO

 >ROME -- Francis Paliekara writes, "I was watching CNN and MSNBC
 >on New Year's Eve when they showed celebrations from around the
 >world.  They were showing footage from the Vatican during the
 >pope's New Year's blessing.  As they panned around St. Peter's
 >Square There was an object in plain sight which hovered
 >completely still in the sky on the right.  It was gray and disk
 >shaped and had no light coming from it or around it.  I don't
 >know what it was.  I was curious if others saw it?  Thanks to
 >Francis Paliekara paliekara@powerweb.net

You don't mean the Goodyear blimp, which has been hovering over
Rome (precisely above St. Peter's square) since Christmas and
sometime mistaken for a UFO by casual observers, do you?

(That might explain why nobody gave it a thought, here in Italy,
and no TV station worried about such apparition, BTW.)

Best regards


Edoardo Russo                             Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici
CISU, Casella postale 82, 10100 Torino - tel 011-3290279 - fax 011-545033
http://www.arpnet.it/~ufo          e-mail: edoardo.russo@torino.alpcom.it








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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 16:52:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:41:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100

 >But, the most interesting Johnson observation was the "big hand
 >of a clock" in the tail of (at least one) of the objects - and
 >the associated magnetic disturbances.

 >Further, there were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground
 >- thus the object speeds couldn't possibly be higher than the
 >speed of sound (700 mph).

 >Best regards,

 >Asgeir


Well, I disagree with your statment:  "thus the object speeds
couldn't possibly be higher than the speed of sound (700 mph)."

First of all, if the objects were already traveling above "750
mph," when they were sighted, the sonic boom, if there was one,
would have long since been experienced.

Second, the reason our jets cause a sonic boom, is becasue the
split the air above, around and below the aircraft, where as it
has been said that UFOs form a magnetic field around themselves
and sail through the atmosphere like a ship on the sea.  Thus,
there would be no "breaking of the sound barrier," because using
this type of propulsion, there would be no barrier to break.

Wouldn't you think that an object or objects, which can make
what appear to be 90 deg. right and left as well as vertical
turns from level flight at high speed, would employ some type of
power system and technology which overcome these problems.

Of course, there is one other possibility, however unlikely it
might seem.  These sightings may be some type of "holographic
projection." Who knows what the state of the art in that
technology may have been at that time, out of the "public
scientific arena?"

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                     Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:00:48 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:43:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town


 >Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 16:17:36 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Vicki Carlson <AGENTA000D@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Explosive Sound Jars Ohio Town
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Did anyone think that the bomb sounds are HARRP projects being
 >tested..... maybe this is what happens when the power is turned
 >up!

 >Vicki

These explosions remind me of the "sonic booms" which were
occurring off the cost from New York to South Carolina, back in
the late 70's and up to the mid 80's.

Each time one of these "sonic booms/explosions" was heard,
shortly thereafter, there was a "UFO" sighting in the area.

If you know anything about "Soviet Cosmospheres," they were also
associated with these sounds.

Many people will tell you that there are no such things as
"Soviet Cosmospheres," but do the research and find out for
yourself.

There exists a lot of technology which is not acknowledged in
todays society.  Herein lies the secret behind most of the UFO
experiences.

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 19:19:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:46:56 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 12:01:04 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Why would ancient humans have used the Pleiades as an important
 >prop during religious observations?  Human antiquity goes back
 >at least four million years and maybe as far as six. Tool use by
 >humans has been dated to three million years.  Perhaps our
 >oldest relatives saw the formation of this star cluster or its
 >aftermath and were so impressed they made it the basis for their
 >religion.  There is  evidence that the Pleiades have changed
 >over the eons.  While know as the seven sisters, only six are
 >clearly visible to the eye.

 >"Of the seven stars one is at present distinctly fainter than
 >the other six and there are many myths regarding this so-call
 >lost Pleiad.  In fact the myths occur in so many ancient
 >literatures that there is a well established theory that at one
 >time all seven of the stars were of approximately the same
 >brightness." Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopaedia


The stories which Meier claims regarding the Pleiades is that
they did not evolve the life which he claims lives there. That
life came to that star system, and established their own
civilization there, in an attempt to escape from a War in their
own Civilizations System.

If this were to turn out to be true, then the age of those stars
would not be nearly as important as if they had evolved there.
Terra forming a planet in that system may well have been a
possibility.

Also remember, the Pleiadeans claim to have established their
civilization "one-half second" out of phase with our time line.
In other words, "between the seconds."

If this were so, then we would not find any evidence of their
existence there if we could actually view their system.

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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   Jan > Jan 10

                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: Principles v. 1

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 20:55:13 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:50:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Principles v. 1


Cydonian Imperative: Principles v. 1

by Mac Tonnies

I've prepared what I think is a good rationale for the Cydonian
Imperative.  There are obviously several niches to occupy in a
subject so "far out," and I'd like to enumerate the ones I feel
are currently lacking in other organizations devoted to Cydonia,
the Face, etc.

1. The Cydonian Imperative is _not_ a hotbed for speculation.
Its existence is simply to help persuade those in charge,
through reasoned dialogue, that the Cydonia region should be a
high-priority for the Mars Global Surveyor.

2. The Cydonian enigmas may or may not be artificial, though it
is my personal opinion that they probably are.  Again, the
Cydonian "cause" has plenty of impassioned advocates already
preconvinced that the Face is non-natural; this is not science,
anymore than NASA dismissing the Face as a "rock" is science.

3. It is our intention to help sway the current official climate
through letters, petitions, etc.  These need not be limited to
Malin Space Science Systems and JPL.  For example, the next time
you see the Face incorrectly "proven" to be a natural formation
in a national magazine, or used as laugh fodder in USA Today,
don't stand for it!  Write to the publication in question asking
that the issue be addressed fairly.

My own reply to the January, 2000 issue of "National Geographic"
is forthcoming and, like all my posts, becomes "freeware" for
others to modify at their discretion.

4.  The possibility for a non-natural origin for the Face, City,
Cliff, Mounds, etc. is not a disproven matter, even though the
mainstream media is unanimous that there is--and never was--
anything to it.  The reason for this is deceptively simple, and
requires no belief in some bizarre coverup.

Simply, Western journalism is simply unable to deal with subject
matter like this responsibly.  Science literacy in the United
States is abhorrent; this trend is sufficiently evident in most
"mainstream" science articles to cause concern.  How, then, do
we expect something like _potential alien artifacts_ to be
handled with any measure of reason or perspective?

The Cydonian Imperative's goal is not to rant and rave, but to
quietly remind the press that they've got the facts wrong when
they create a straw man out of the Face.  Dr. Mark Carlotto has
shown, in the revised edition of _The Martian Enigmas_, that the
evidence for artifacts on Mars is actually better than that for
extinct microbial life on Mars.  Using Bayesian analysis, the
odds for artificiality at Cydonia stack up rather impressively.

Remember: in the mind of the press there are only two different
kinds of people who concern themselves with such subject matter:
"skeptics" and "believers."  "Skeptics," unfortunately, have
become synonymous with "debunkers," partly due to the parade of
inaccuracies produced by groups such as CSICOP (Committee for
the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal).
"Believers," of course, are those prone to lining their walls
with aluminum foil and obsessing over alleged footage of Elvis
taken in supermarkets.

There is a reason for this harsh, inaccurate worldview: it's
easier to deal with from a journalistic standpoint than actually
thinking for one's self.  A typical college journalism class
stresses the need to present "both sides of the argument."
There is certainly nothing wrong with this.  But when faced with
something as bizarre as apparent alien ruins on another planet,
the "skeptics vs. believers" mentality kicks in, with predicable
results: NASA is arbitrarily deemed the voice of reason, and
some random crank is called in to "defend" the Cydonian
anomalies to the public.

Richard Hoagland, for example, has become synonymous in the
public's mind with the notion of Cydonian artificiality, and
there is no doubt that he has done some remarkable work on the
subject in the past.  Lately though, he's given to rambling
accounts of "crystalline ruins on the Moon"--actually visited by
Apollo astronauts who failed to notice--and any number of
conspiracy theories (provided they have something to do with
NASA and Egypt).  Hoagland, of course, was touted as an expert
in USA Today when the infamous "catbox" image of the Face
appeared.

His arguments, however well-intentioned, served to seal the
coffin on the Face.  While this was certainly good news for
conspiracy-hungry Net-surfers, it was a significant blow to the
Society for Planetary SETI Research, whose arguments (presented
in the book _The Case for the Face_) were responsible for taking
a new picture of the Face in the first place.  The
misconceptions that surround this controversial field indeed
boggle the mind.

(After viewing the Kansas City Star's horrible account of the
Face in 1998, I proceeded to write all the senior editors,
offering to give them the e-mail addresses of scientists whose
work has withstood peer-review; I received no replies.)

A helpful rule when dealing with the press: If you advocate
reimaging the Face, you're invariably viewed as a nut-case.
There's no getting around it.

Or is there?  Novel approaches to dealing with the media re.
this issue is, after all, one of the reasons for this mailing
list.  It is my hope that we can pool our thoughts to surmount
some of the apathy that has collected around the explosive
possibility present in Cydonia.


-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Mars: The Cydonian Imperative

a mailing list devoted to the immediate implementation of
manned Mars missions and the democratization of space science.
This list is not affiliated with any particular Mars advocacy group,
and is intended to be as informal as possible.

To contribute, send essays, harangues, URLs, and diatribes to
Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.

All material becomes "freeware" to be distributed to anyone by
anyone; all materials directed to Mac Tonnies are considered
public domain and may be included in a forthcoming digest unless
marked otherwise.  Intellectual copyright is respected wherever
specified.  No money is made from this list, and subscription is
free (and often unsolicited...)

To unsubscribe, just send a reply requesting to be taken off the
list.  To add additional recipient/s, please send me the e-mail
addresses of interested parties or individuals.

Useful websites:

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station: http://shuttlenasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 10

                      I'm back - Are The Pelicans Gone?

From: clearlight@t-online.de (Josh Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 03:04:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:56:38 -0500
Subject: I'm back - Are The Pelicans Gone?


Dear Fellow wackos on this list,

At the beginning of September I went through the tough task of
beating my addiction to UFO UpDates as we were getting ready to
go on a European music tour and I could not find the time to
keep up. All is going well and I am now living in Berlin. So I
am back to torment this list. I would like to make contact with
serious UFO researchers in this area who speak some English. Any
suggestions?

One of the first posts I have read since I rejoined this
addiction had continued the thread of the Arnold sighting, a
well worn thread of 1999. Personally, I think Mr. Arnold, Mr.
Johnson, and the Californian saw what they reported. But I
wonder what kind of telescope Mr. Johnson was using to observe
nearby daylight objects that were fast moving. I hope he did not
see "rods".

Speaking of strange synchronicity, shortly after I read again
about Arnold I found an email that was in my drafts folder since
August and that I most likely never sent to the list. It is
wacky humor that even I probably thought was too loony to post.
But it was written when the pelicanists had gotten pretty
absurd. So here goes.




Josh Goldstein wrote:

From: Wendy Connors <ProjectSign@email.msn.com>
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: Re: Black Helicopters in Jane's Defence Weekly
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:17:47 -0600

 >From: Steven J. Dunn <SDunn@LOGICON.COM>
 >Subject: Black helicopters in Jane's Defence Weekly
 >To: UFO Updates <updates@globalserve.net>,
 >Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 09:44:15 -0700

 >>Date: Fri, 31 Aug 1956 10:29:49 +0000
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:19:40 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Black helicopters in Jane's Defence Weekly

 >Dear List members:

 >There in an article in the 28 July 1999 issue of _Jane's Defence
 >Weekly_ that may be of interest to members of the list. It is
 >entitled, "The Disappearing Helicopter" and, in highly
 >non-ufologically-oriented style (as would be expected), deals
 >with the "black helicopter" phenomon.
 >Ex: "There is a persistent legend, fostered by occasional
 >eye-witness testimony, that the US government has developed a
 >helicopter so stealthy that part of its repertoire includes the
 >ability to run silently."
 >Groom Lake and tests in the SW US are also prominently >mentioned.

 >>This is most interesting. I'll have to check out that issue of
 >>Jane's. I have been aware of black helicopter reports for many
 >>years. I have seen reports of "silent running". As a former Huey
 >>(UH-1) pilot (175th Assault Helicopter Company, "The Outlaws") I
 >>flew the choppers with the loudest flapping blades. I can't
 >>imagine what rotor blage design or other technology would create
 >>a silent helicopter. Does anyone out there in Updates universehave
 >>any ideas?

 >>Josh

No mystery Josh.

They are the closet variety pelicans the racist white flock
refuses to acknowledge exist. They even have the gall (no pun
intended) to make these little guys fly behind them out of
sight. From what I understand, the pier pilings are segregated
also. Since these poor unfortunate critters don't reflect like a
mirror while flipping around in the sun, they are doomed to fly
mostly at night. As soon as the Pelicanists get themselves
thoroughly organized, perhaps they will endeavor to use Purple
Robes to file a discrimination suit against the elitist white
pelicans. It is time those dastardly pouch carrying cretins get
what they deserve! In the meantime, I am starting a fund raising
effort to assist these poor unfortunate pelicans. I guarantee 2%
of all funds sent in to go directly to the alleviation of black
pelican suffering throughout the State of Washington. The
remainder will, of course, go into a seperate fund for the
continuing research into those excessively rare occassions when
the White Supremist Pelican's (WSP) play their favorite game of
throwing Sara Lee pie tins back and forth to each other in an
attempt to confuse the non-Pelicanists within the field of
ufology.

In further developments, word has been received that the silent
rotors are, in fact, surplus Archie beanies that the white
pelicans make the black ones wear. The bells on these
beanies have been removed in order for the black pelicans to
sneak through on the underground pelican railroad undetected to
Wright-Patterson AFB, where they can be protected in that secret
blue room inside the non-existent hanger 18, until they can
safely be taken across the border into Canada and welcomed with
open arms by Errol. Time to fess up about your involvement
Errol! <G>

Wendy Connors

[Its only the beanies that interest us - honest! That nice
Mr. Myer has been most helpful - thanks Osc. -- ebk]

Well Wendy, the above is most profound. It is 3am Monday morning
out here on the Malibu - Santa Monica stretch of the great
Pacific. I've had a long weekend as a music producer and it is
getting near musicians' bedtimes. I guess that's the reason I
live on a coast with ocean sunsets. I will ponder  your wisdom
further upon tomorrow's sand. Due to the present hour I don't
have the energy left to don my usual extreme humor beanie for
long.

My God! That's right. MY GOD, NOT yours. God, why is it that
after being awake at 3:49am and after being aware of the Kenneth
Arnold case for a few decades I find myself, this morning in
1999, in contemplation of the philosophy of pelicanists. Things
sure get strange at this hour. I find myself deep in the
semiotics of UFOs = Unidentified Flying Obejcts metamorphing
into UFOs = Unidentified Flapping Pelicans now identified as
both black and white species. Look under the feathers and you
will see that they both have the same color dung. Or do I not
know about the Top Secret black dung piles out at Groom Lake?
The scandal that back in the 1940s the US Government in its
black projects could not make stealth pelicans. That in the
1990s the best the government can do towards stealth pelicans is
to build tunnels to Wright-Pat to hide their failure.

In 1993 back in Rachel, NV a one of a kind pelican, a strange
bird named Gary Schultz demonstrated to me the mental hazards of
trying too hard to be a flapping object with too much
information. He provided no evidence but seemed to have lost his
way to the truth. He told me tidbits of the pelican scandal. I
never believed him but you may be confirming something here. He
told me that William Cooper had known that John Lear had such
evidence from his CIA sources. The pelican plan started with the
Marshall Plan and operation paperclip. Documents were recovered
that showed the Nazis were experimenting with Unidentified
Flapping Objects. Jet powered black and white pelicans with
strange swept wings were developed at Peenemunde as stealth V3s.
Silent and invisible by reflecting the sun so strongly that one
would be forced to look away. The Nazis trained the Japanese,
who sent over the Pelican Baka bombs. They held hand grenades in
their beaks. Perhaps, as Roswell was caused by a Baka bomb that
took over a year to get from Japan to the US, Mr. Arnold saw a
flight of late flying previously lost V3s (remember how he
reported the speed, must have been jet powered pelicans with
swept wings that were truly Baka Pelicans that got lost flying
across the Pacific and arrived late). However, I have been told
that the Nazis continued their research after the war with
penguins from their "Groom Lake" in Antarctica. Check the
ancient Piri Riis map of Antarctica that shows the terrain
beneath the icecap to find the location.

Arnold spotted them. But Arnold only saw half the Baka Pelicans
due to the rest being black and nonreflective. The black ones
could only be seen with fluorescent UV black lights. The white
ones only with white light. During the war we could not spare
the electrical generating power to light up the miles long black
lights that would have been needed for observation. But the end
of the war came too soon for the Japanese.

Then this was all hushed up by the Men in Black. Strange, they
had feet like pelicans and had to wear big shoes. Black ops put
the lid on this. One night it was partially leaked to me at
Rachel.


Dr.Flapper Von Bird was brought to the US. He supervised rocket
testing and development at White Sands in New Mexico but
covertly established Dulce Canyon as an underground Pelican
stealth research lab. Later, even the New Mexico State Police
witnessed those pelicans. Then it was moved to area S4 in Nevada
when the word spread. Wendy, thank you for expanding my
knowledge and for confirming an axiom I have long suspected.
Strange birds indeed. Does that clear things up also for you?
Think about it. It did for me.

I'm going to bed. Tomorrow I will tackle the flapping mythology.
Remember the story of the Bigfoot with a black pelican perched
on one shoulder and a white one upon the other? If not, we will
pursue it at a later date. I'm going to bed. Satisfied that we
have identified the flap of Unknown Flapping Pelicans once and
for all.

Ah, sweet dreams. Yawn.
Josh

By the way, does anyone know what happened to that unusual bird
Gary Schultz? Years ago he used to do a lot of flapping around
LA. Did he get swept up in the loose screw magnet? If so, we
need more lose screw magnets. The floor of this field is
unfortunately littered with too many loose screws. Sure, we all
beg for sanity in the midst of UFO mania but remember that the
truly deluded will never listen to advice. Maybe some of those
poor unfortunates are really the Govenment's Men In Wack. Wackos
programmed to feed disinformation to make us all look like
wackos. I know, I'm a certified wacko. This post is the
evidence.

"Go Ask Oscar When He's Ten Feet Tall". A song for Oscar Myer
Weinermobiles performed by the Jefferson Pelicans, written by
Oil Slick.

Ok, I warned you. I've been away a few months and I promise this
is the last post this crazy. Now I'll dig into the archives to
get an idea of what I missed and the origins of current threads.
I hope during my absence no one went on the rampage with
undignified, stupid actions such as personal attacks. I hope
this list can be passionate yet professional. There is no excuse
for that kind of behavior, even with the terminally deluded like
myself.









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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 10

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 23:03:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:26:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100


 >Hello List:

 >I guess we won't avoid discussing the Arnold sightings in the
 >year 2000 either, so I just decided to be the first one this
 >year (yes, I think so).

 >Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain
 >ridges.

 >This year I will just refer to what Arnold told some of the
 >newspapers - and - mention a report from the prospector F.M.
 >Johnson, being on the ground up in the Cascades on - apparently
 >- the same day as Arnold made his sightings. And then, prepare a
 >comparison between the main observations as reported by the two
 >men. (I guess that most of this stuff is well known to you, but
 >the Johnson reports were fairly new to me, and I just decided to
 >systemize them a little bit.)

It is a good idea to discuss the Arnold/Johnson sighting in the
year 2000. Especially to clear up misunderstandings. Reference
is made to the following "Arnold website":

<snip>

 >4. He clocked them from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams, arriving at
 >the "amazing" speed of about 1200 miles an hour.

The actual calculated speed was closer to 1,700 mph. He
arbitrarily reduced the speed in his public statements in case
he had made an error.

 >5. Talking about it to a man from Ukiah in Pendleton this
 >morning, whose name he did not get (it was maybe not Johnson;
 >see below), he was amazed to learn that the man had sighted the
 >same aerial objects yesterday afternoon from the mountains in
 >the Ukiah section!

Not Johnson

<snip>

 >11. In addition: Arnold estimated the length of the objects as
 >approximately equal in angular size to the spacing of engines on
 >a DC-4 at 15 miles. Assume he was right, with the spacing about
 >60 ft. Then the objects would be 4/60 x 15 = 1 mile away (from
 >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m25-006.shtml ).

Misinterpretation here. The objects were about 20 miles away
based on the claim by Arnold that they flew "in and out of the
mountain peaks" south of Mt. Rainier.

Thus the size was (60 ft / 15 miles) x ( 20 miles) = 80 ft
_approximately_... of course.

<snip>

 >Som>e of the significant observations made by Johnson (as told to
 >the Air Force), were as follows:

<snip>

 >3. He observed 6-7 similarly looking objects - from his position
 >in the Cascades

Miles South of Arnold.

<snip>

 >Other observations by myself - when comparing what they both
 >have been reporting:

 >- He didn't report seeing Arnold's plane up in the air, though.

Not surprising. He was about 50 miles from Arnold and perhaps on
th south side of a mountain (Arnold was way north of the Mt.
Adams. Johnson was near Mt. Adams)

<snip>

 >- Arnold didn't see any "big hand of a clock" in the tail (but,
 >this _might_ be the "different" craft); in any case, a very
 >special observation from Johnson...but that was because he had a
t>elescope, only some 1,000 feet away - below the craft

Arnold was looking from the side and 20 miles or more awy from
the bjects. Johnson estimated they were about 1000 ft above him
and he used a telescope.

 >- Arnold didn't register any compass disturbances from _his
 >distance_ up in the air, approx. _1 mile_ away, at approx. the
 >same altitude as the discs.

Arnold was about 20 miles away. Not surprising there was no
compass disturbance (assuming he looked at his compass).
Magnetic field strength decreases as the cube of the distance.
The cube of the ratio of 20 miles to 1000 ft, is a large number.
1/this large number is the field reduction factor (0.0000008)

<snip>

 >Conclusion:

 >We should _really_ assume that both of them were credible
 >persons and observers, and that they both told the truth to the
 >Air Force in their reports.

Agree

(Or, what interests did they have in
 >not telling the truth? Were they both specifically looking for
 >very much attention?)

 >Should we pay some specific attention to the compass
 >disturbances - that there were _none_ (reported by Arnold) up in
 >the air, 1 mile (1,600 m) away from the objects, but still there
 >were disturbances on the ground, some 1,000 feet (300 m)
 >below....?

Johnson's report of magnetic disturbance is the first such
report in UFO history (so far as I know)

 >This _could_ possibly assume some pulse radar control - given
 >_no pelicans_...... (The pulse radar beams _should_ - in my
 >opinion - really reach almost everywhere around the
 >objects..... but I'm not an expert on this.)

Magnetic effects not likely to be related to radar.

<snip>

 >Which one of these two guys had the best imagination/fantasy?
 >Well, the List members should judge for themselves which one of
 >these men who are the most credible.

No reason to think that either is not credible.

 >When ruling out any conspiracy theory, both of them - highly
 >likely - _did_ observe some strange craft on - apparently - the
 >_same_ day.

Yes.

NOTE: Johnson's report was left unexplained by the Air Force. It
enjoys a unique position in this regard: it is the _first_
unexplained report in the Blue Book file, Arnold's sighting was
officially explained as a mirage. For further info see below.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


JUNE 24, 1947:  HOW IT ALL BEGAN

The Story of the Arnold Sighting

by

Bruce Maccabee

PRESENTED AT THE 1997 SYMPOSIUM OF THE MUTUAL UFO NETWORK
Grand Rapids, Michigan, July 12, 1997

(UPDATED to Sept. 1999)


INTRODUCTION

June 24, 1947.  You will not find any conventional history book
that even so much as mentions that on that date there began the
public awareness of a phenomenon of such importance that it
could well be the most important phenomenon discovered in this
century, or even in the history of mankind.  The important event
of that date was the sighting, by Kenneth Arnold, of a group of
strange flying objects which eventually became known throughout
the world as flying saucers, Unidentified Flying Objects or UFOs
(English, German, Japanese, etc.),  OVNIs (Spanish, French) or
NLOs (Russian).

Since Kenneth Arnold�s story was publicized around the world
fifty years ago, sightings of UFOs/OVNIs/saucers have affected
the lives of thousands of people the world over.  So, why
haven�t history books mentioned this very important event?
Because the subject of flying saucers has been considered to be
largely nonsense.  Even though no one has yet offered a credible
explanation for Arnold�s sighting, it has been tacitly assumed
by the the majority of the academic community, the community
most likely to write history books, that Arnold�s sighting, and
the tens of thousands of others since his, have been explained
in many ways.

This assumption by conventional historians is based on the fact
that proposed explanations for Arnold�s sighting, and for the
other sightings, were widely publicized by the press, skeptical
scientists and the U.S. Air Force.  Historians, not having the
necessary training in physical and perceptual sciences, could
not properly evaluate these explanations and therefore assumed
they were true.  The failure of the Air Force or any other
government agency or group of people to provide absolutely
conclusive proof such as �hard evidence� (pieces of a saucer,
aliens, dead or alive) meant that there was no compelling reason
to question the explanations and so the explanations carried the
day.... and the day after that.... and the day after that....
Fifty years later these bogus explanations prevent June 24, 1947
from taking its rightful place in history. It is my intent in
this paper to show how the explanations have failed.  In doing
so I hope to justify the inclusion of this day in future history
books.


PRE-HISTORY

Unknown to most of human society, during the spring of 1947
strange things were happening.  Oddly shaped objects flying
through the skies were seen by a few people.  These appeared to
be machines...but they weren�t any type of flying craft made by
mankind.  They did not have aerodynamic shape, yet they traveled
at high speed. The sightings were miracles of a
sort...anomalous events with no explanation... a preview of
coming events.  The sightings were portentous occurrences,
heralding the dawn of a new era, but the witnesses did not know
this.  All the witnesses knew was that they had seen something
strange.  Probably some new development of the Air Force, they
thought.  After marveling at the sights, they forgot about them.
These sightings would have been lost in the their distant
memories, absent from history, if it hadn�t been for one man and
the events which followed his June sighting.

In January, 1947 a British Mosquito fighter aircraft chased
unknown flying object for half an hour off the coast of Britain.
In April, in Richmond, Virginia, meteorologists saw round
silvery objects fly past the meteorological balloons they were
tracking. In May a pilot who lived in Oklahoma City saw a
huge, shiny, disk-shaped object fly at a high speed and high
altitude over him (he was on the ground at the time) without
making any noise.  During the same month seven employees of a
railroad in Colorado watched a strange object perform strange
maneuvers for several minutes.  It looked metallic and it made
no sound.  Near the end of May a doctor who was fishing in South
Carolina saw four discs which appeared to be spinning fly nearly
overhead at a high rate of speed.  They made no sound.  There
were a few other sightings in May and then the sighting rate
began to increase in June. The newspaper reports compiled by
Ted Bloecher (reference 8) are known to be an underestimate of
the true number of sightings, but at least they give us an idea
of what happened so long ago.  According to Bloecher there was
approximately one sighting every other day for the first half of
the June.  These were scattered over the midwest and western
United States. Then the sighting rate doubled to about 2 per
day until June 20.  Bloecher found 3 sightings for June 20, two
for June 21, three on June 22, six on June 23..... and then the
explosion: Bloecher found 20 reports on June 24!  These were
mostly in the far northwestern states of Washington, Oregon and
Idaho. Sightings were scattered throughout the day from
morning to night.  After the 24th the sighting rate stayed at
about 10 per day or higher, with sightings occurring not just in
the west but throughout the country.  In early July the sighting
rate climbed beyond 20 per day to 88 sightings on July 4, 76 on
July 5, 156 on July 6, 159 on July 7, and a whopping 189 on July
8.  After that it dropped quickly back to 20 per day and then
only a few per day.  By the end of July the sighting rate was
about one per day and by August it was down to several per week.
(Newspapers reported a few sightings in other countries as
well.)

********************************************************

What had happened? Had the American people undergone a
summertime �silly season?� Was there something in the air that
made people see things that were not there?  If you looked at
the major national press for that period you would get the
impression that the citizens of the United States had been
spooked by some odd phenomenon which had burst upon the country
with great speed and fury and had departed just as suddenly.
After the 1947 flap was over there was no hard evidence - at
least none available to the general public - to prove that any
of the reported objects were real, i.e., solid, metallic
objects.  There were only stories and a few disputed photos.
During the flap and afterward the U.S. government vehemently
denied responsibility for any sightings and furthermore the Army
Air Force claimed that a search for evidence of unusual flying
craft had produced nothing.  By early July explanations were
running rampant and by late July the subject was being forgtten
by all but the witnesses themselves.... and the Air Force and
FBI. (Yes, the FBI did investigate sightings in 1947 and
collected flying saucer information for years afterward.  The �X
files� are real! see ref. 12.)

During the first two weeks of the 1947 flap the press had a
generally positive attitude toward the sightings. There was a
feeling that something had really been seen and there were two
acceptable theories:  advanced U.S. aircraft or enemy (Soviet)
aircraft.  But when the government denied having any such
aircraft, and when it became apparent that the Soviets would be
foolish to fly any advanced aircraft over the United States, the
press became hostile to the idea that saucers were real flying
craft.  Instead saucer sightings were explained as delusions,
motes in the eye, reflections off distant aircraft, ice
meteors(!), misidentified natural phenomena and atmospheric
effects such as mirages, hoaxes (of which there were a number)
or just plain tall stories by people wanting notoriety.  By the
end of this period witnesses had been embarrassed and worse,
ridiculed, by the stories in the press.  New witnesses just
decided to shut up.  Even Mr. Arnold told the press that he
would not report anything else he might see.

Of course, the subject of flying saucers did not die with the
end of the flap.  It just �went underground�...to pop up again
and again in one form or another as sightings ebbed and flowed
through the years following 1947.  And, as students of the
subject well know, the Air Force did not forget the sightings.
For years there was a publicly known Air Force effort to analyze
sightings (projects called Sign, Grudge and Blue Book) and it
was one of these which tackled Kenneth Arnold�s sighting. The
Air Force in December, 1949, publicly claimed to have explained
the sighting....but had not, as you will see.  Nevertheless, the
claim was enough to remove Arnold�s sighting from consideration
by historians.  (Even some pro-UFO books have suggested that
Arnold saw a mirage.)  Therefore, the reasoning went something
like this: if the first major occurrence of a what appears to be
a new phenomenon turns out to be faulty...then it is probable
that any other similar reports are also faulty.  And, by this
logic the whole subject was rejected by conventional science,
the press and the history of the period.

However, as the following discussion shows, what was faulty was
not the �first� sighting. What was faulty was the reasoning
which led to various incorrect explanations.

**********************************************************

THE ARNOLD STORY

THE SOURCES OF INFORMATION

Summaries of Arnold's sighting report have been published in a
number of books (references 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) including his own
(ref. 10).  Unfortunately these books leave out some of the
details that must be known in order to properly evaluate (and
reject!) the explanations that have been proposed.  I, too, do
not have space to reproduce his sighting report (ref. 11)
verbatim.  However, I will present most of the information so
that the reader will have a good understanding of what happened.

The Appendix contains a transcript of what was apparently the
first radio interview of Mr. Arnold.  This presents a very brief
overview of the sighting as recalled the day afterward.
Although the information contained therein is not used in the
following reconstruction of the events, I present it here to
show that his basic story had not changed over the weeks between
the sighting and his letter to the Air Force, in which he
presented his most detailed recollections of his sighting.

WHAT WAS HE DOING BEFORE THE SIGHTING?

According to Mr. Arnold, at 2:00 PM, June 24, 1947 he took off
from Chehalis, in the state of Washington, in his small plane
after completing a business trip (he sold and installed fire
fighting equipment).  He planned to spend about an hour
searching for a lost C-46 Marine transport plane that had
crashed in the mountains west-southwest of Mt. Rainier.  (There
was a $5,000 reward for finding the plane.)  After searching for
about an hour and not finding anything he turned east toward his
next destination, Yakima, Washington.  He was near Mineral,
Washington, about 22 miles west-southwest of Mt. Rainier and
Yakima was about 80 miles ahead of him along a flight path that
would take him just about 12 miles south of peak of Mt. Rainier.
He levelled out onto his new flight path he was at approximately
a 9,200 ft altitude.  His sighting began within a minute or two
of the turn. Sentences and paragraphs taken from his Air Force
letter (ref. 11) are preceded by (L) and statements from his
book (ref. 10) are preceded by (B).  As you read the following
story please keep in mind that this is history.  It actually
happened!

******

THE SIGHTING BEGINS

(L) "The air was so smooth that day that it was a real pleasure
flying and, as most pilots do, when the air is smooth and they
are flying at a higher altitude, I trimmed out my airplane in
the direction of Yakima, which was almost directly east of my
position and simply sat in my plane observing the sky and
terrain.  There was a DC-4 to the left and to the rear of me
approximately fifteen miles distance, and I should judge, at
14,000 ft. elevation.

******

COMMENT:  The time was about 3:00 PM and the sun was just
slightly to the southwest of being directly overhead (azimuth
230 deg, elevation 60 deg.; this was only two days after the
summer solstice).  It is important to notice how Arnold's
attention was first drawn to the presence of strange flying
objects because his initial observation rules out any
explanation that is based on things in the sky which are not
shiny (reflective, like a mirror) such as, for example, birds.
It also rules out atmospheric effects.  Also, keep in mind the
general geometry of this sighting. The objects traveled almost
due south along a path that took them just west of Mt. Rainier.
Their travel path from about the location of Rainier to several
miles south of Rainier was essentially perpendicular to Arnold's
eastward line of sight.  This was at the time they were closest
to Arnold.

CONNECT THE STARS IN THE FOLLOWING SKETCH TO MAKE THE PATH OF
THE SAUCERS

The following "map" is illustrative but not to scale (this may
not come out readable unless you use a variable character
spacing in your word processor)

   *

  *
   (R) = Mt. Rainier
  ((R)) ________
  (KA)  ---- 20 miles---- * ---| |
   (KA= Arnold's plane)M |
M |
M  *  |
|  about
  M * M47 miles
  M = Mountains|  peak
South of  M |  to
Rainier  |  peak
  (not exact locations)  M |
   *  |
|
  *  |
|
|
  *|
   (A )_____|____
  (A) = Mt. Adams

(L) "The sky and air was as clear as crystal.  I hadn't flown
more than two or three minutes on my course when a bright flash
of light reflected on my airplane.  It startled me as I thought
I was too close to some other aircraft.  (B) I spent the next
twenty to thirty seconds urgently searching the sky all around -
to the sides and above and below me - in an attempt to determine
where the flash of light had come from.  The only actual plane I
saw was a DC-4 far to my left and rear, apparently on its San
Francisco to Seattle run.  My momentary explanation to myself
was that some lieutenant in a P-51 had given me a buzz job
across my nose and that it was sun reflecting off his wings as
he passed that had caused the flash.  Before I had time to
collect my thoughts or to find a close aircraft, the flash
happened again.  This time I caught the direction from which it
had come.  I observed, far to my left and to the north, a
formation of very bright objects coming from the vinicity of Mt.
Baker, flying very close to the mountain tops and traveling at
tremendous speed.  (L)  I observed a chain of nine peculiar
looking aircraft flying from north to south at approximately
9,500 ft elevation and going, seemingly, in a definite direction
of about 170 degrees.

************************************

COMMENT:  Mt. Baker (altitude, 10,000 ft) is about 130 miles
north of Mt. Rainier.  Even if the objects were not as far away
as Mt. Baker the flashes must have been very bright to be
visible over a great distance. (If the path of the objects as
estimated by Arnold, 170 degrees azimuth, is projected northward
from Mt. Rainier, his sighting line to Mt. Baker crosses the
projected path abou 50 miles from his plane, which is a more
likely distance for his initial observation of the flashes.)
This suggests that the flashes were reflections of sunlight from
mirror-like (specular) surfaces, i.e., a polished metal
surfaces.  Sunlight flashes could be visible over distances as
great as a hundred miles under clear atmospheric conditions.
Anything less would be invisible over such a distance in the
bright sky.  Since the sun was at an elevation of about 60 deg,
some portion of the object's surface must have been momentarily
at an angle of about 60 deg. to the horizontal in order to cause
a reflected sun ray to travel nearly horizontally in the
atmosphere from the object to Arnold's plane.

*******

DESCRIPTION AND TIMING THE FLIGHT BETWEEN POINTS

(B) "At first I couldn't make out their shapes as they were
still at a distance of over a hundred miles.  I could see that
the formation was going to fly in front of me.  I watched as
these objects approached the snow border of Mt. Rainier,
thinking all the time that I was observing a whole formation of
jets.  In group count that I have used in counting cattle and
game from the air, they numbered nine.  They were flying
diagonally in echelon formation with a larger gap in their
echelon between the first four and last five.  What startled me
the most was the fact that I could not find any tails on them.
I felt sure that, being jets, they had tails, but figured they
must be camouflaged in some way so that my eyesight could not
perceive them.  I knew that the Air Force was very artful in the
knowledge and use of camouflage.  I observed the objects'
outlines plainly as they flipped and flashed against the snow
and also against the sky.

(L) Anyhow, I discovered that this was where the reflection had
come from, as two or three of them every few seconds would dip
or change course slightly, just enough for the sun to strike
them at an angle that reflected brightly on my plane.

(B) As they were traveling perpendicular to my path I was in an
excellent position to clock their speed and I determined to make
an attempt to do so.  (L) I had two definite points I could
clock them by. (Note: by this he means Mt. Rainier and Mt.
Adams, about 47 miles to the south).  The air was so clear that
it was very easy to see the objects and determine their
approximate shape and size at almost fifty miles that day.  I
remember distinctly that my sweep second hand on my eight day
clock, which is located on the instrument panel, read one minute
to 3 PM as the first object of this formation passed the
southern edge of Mt. Rainier.

(L) I watched these objects with great interest as I had never
before observed airplanes flying so close to the mountain tops,
flying directly south to southeast down the hog's back of a
mountain range.  I would estimate their elevation could have
varied a thousand feet one way or the other up or down, but they
were pretty much on the horizon to me which would indicate that
they were near the same elevation as me.  They flew like many
times I have observed geese to fly in a rather diagonal
chain-like line as if they were linked together.  They seemed to
hold a definite direction but rather swerved in and out of the
high mountain peaks.  I could quite accurately determine their
pathway due to the fact that there were several high peaks a
little this side of them as well as higher peaks on the other
side of their pathway.

*******

COMMENT:  These statements about how they flew with respect to
the mountain peaks are very important because they provide
information on the distance from Mr. Arnold.  These mountain
peaks lie along a wide north-south line extending southward from
Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams.  These peaks were about 20 miles east
of Arnold at the time.  These statements also provide the
altitude of the objects.  To Arnold they appeared to be
approximately at his altitude because they seemed to be "pretty
much on the horizon to me."  Since he was flying at 9,200 ft,
this implies that they were close to that altitude.  (Arnold
actually stated his letter that they were at 9,500 ft.)
However, the mountain peaks south of Rainier generally are 5,000
to 7,000 ft high, with the higher ones being farther away (more
to the east) from Arnold.  Hence his statement that there were
higher peaks on the far side of the pathway indicates that the
objects were definitely lower than about 7,000 ft.  Furthermore,
he stated that they went behind some (or at least one) of the
lower, closer peaks.  Geological survey maps show that mountain
peaks which the objects could have disappeared behind have
altitudes of 5,000 to 6,000 ft. Hence it appears that they were
lower than 6,000 ft and that Arnold overestimated their
altitude.

Is it reasonable to assume that he could have made an error of
several thousand feet in estimating their altitude?  The answer
to this question lies in the fact that Arnold inferred the
altitude by observing that the objects appeared to be almost
exactly on his horizon (i.e., level with his altitude).  But it
is very difficult to determine the exact horizon from an
airplane.  In this case, the angle (the "depression angle")
between exact horizontal and his downward sighting line to the
mountain peaks south of Mt. Rainier was very small.  The
depression angle from Arnold's plane at 9,200 ft altitude to the
top of a 5,500 ft high mountain at a distance of 20 miles
(105,600 ft) was about 2 deg.  Such a small angle would be
difficult to detect from an airplane.  So the answer is yes, he
could easily have made an error of 4,000 ft in estimating the
altitude of the objects.  Perhaps if he had looked up the actual
altitudes of the mountain peaks south of Mt Rainier he would
have revised his statement.

*******************

FORMATION AND �SKIPPING SAUCER� FLIGHT DYNAMICS

While Arnold was timing the flight he observed the objects
carefully.  According to his letter,  " I observed these objects
not only through the glass of my airplane but turned my airplane
sideways where I could open my window and observe them with a
completely unobstructed view. (Without sun glasses.)"

(B) "They didn't fly like any aircraft I had ever seen before.
In the first place their echelon formation was backward from
that practiced by our Air Force.  The elevation of the first
craft was greater than that of the last.  They flew in a
definite formation but erratically.  As I described them at the
time their flight was like speed boats on rough water or similar
to the tail of a Chinese kite that I once saw blowing in the
wind.  Or maybe it would be best to describe their flight
characteristics as very similar to a formation of geese, in a
rather diagonal chain-like line, as if they were linked
together.  As I put it to newsmen in Pendleton, Oregon, they
flew like a saucer would if you skipped it across the water.
They fluttered and sailed, tipping their wings alternately and
emitting those very bright blue-white flashes from their
surfaces.  At the time I did not get the impression that the
flashes were emitted by them, but rather that it was the sun's
reflection from the extremely highly polished surface of their
wings.

(L) What kept bothering me as I watched them flip and flash in
the sun right along their path was the fact that I couldn't make
out any tail on them, and I am sure that any pilot would justify
more than a second look at such a plane.  The more I observed
these objects the more upset I became, as I am accustomed and
familiar with most all objects flying whether I am close to the
ground or at higher altitude.  Even though two minutes seems
like a very short time to one on the ground, in the air in two
minutes time a pilot can observe a great many things and
anything within his sight of vision probably as many as fifty or
sixty times.  Of course, when the sun reflected from one or two
or three of these units, they appeared to be completely round;
but, I am making a drawing to the best of my ability, which I am
including, as to the shape I observed these objects to be as
they passed the snow covered ridges as well as Mt. Rainier.
When the objects were flying approximately straight and level,
they were just a black thin line and when they flipped was the
only time I could get a judgement as to their size.  These
objects were holding an almost constant elevation; they did not
seem to be going up or coming down, such as would be the case of
artillery shells.  I am convinced in my own mind that they were
some type of airplane, even though they didn't conform with the
many aspects of the conventional types of planes I know.

*******

COMMENT:  In his letter Arnold included a sketch which shows the
leading edge being nearly a semicircle, with short parallel
sides and with the rear being a wide angle convex (protruding) V
shape that comes to a rounded point at the trailing edge.  (See
also his recorded description in the Appendix: half a pie pan
with a convex triangle at the rear.) He wrote on the sketch
that "they seemed longer than wide, their thickness was about
1/20th of their width."  His suggestion that their width (or
length) was about twenty times greater than their thickness may
be an exaggeration.  The sketch he drew of how they appeared"on
edge" has the dimensions 4 mm wide by 45 mm long (approx.) which
suggests a ratio closer to 1/11.  Although he did not mention it
in his letter, he later stated (e.g., in his book) that one of
the objects had a somewhat different shape.  His book shows an
illustration in which the object has a semi-circular front edge
and a rear edge that consists of two concave edges that join at
a rearward pointing cusp at the center of the rear edge.

******

   THE ANGULAR SIZE AND SPEED OF THE OBJECTS

(L) I knew they must be very large to observe their shape at
that distance, even on as clear a day as it was that Tuesday.
In fact I compared a zeus fastener or cowling tool I had in my
pocket - holding it up on them and holding it up on the DC-4 -
that I could observe at quite a distance to my left, and they
seemed smaller than the DC-4; but I should judge their span
would have been as wide as the furtherest engines on each side
of the DC-4.

(L) I observed the chain of these objects passing another
snow-covered ridge in between Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams, and as
the first one was passing the south crest of this ridge the last
object was entering the northern crest of the ridge.  As I was
flying in the direction of this particular ridge, I measured it
and found it to be approximately five miles so I could safely
assume that the chain of these saucer like objects were at least
five miles long.

(L) As the last unit of this formation passed the southern most
high snow covered crest of Mt. Adams, I looked at my sweep
second hand and it showed that they traveled the distance in one
minute and forty-two seconds.  Even at the time this timing did
not upset me as I felt confident after I would land there would
be some explanation of what I saw.  I might add that my complete
observation of these objects, which I could even follow by their
flashes as they passed Mt. Adams, was around two and one-half or
three minutes--although, by the time they reached Mt. Adams they
were out of my range of vision as far as determining shape or
form.

*******

COMMENT:  Arnold provided an estimate of size in an indirect
way: he stated that they appeared to be comparable to the
spacing of the engines on a DC-4 (4 engine propellor driven, 117
ft wingspan, 94 ft length, 27 ft height) which he had seen at a
distance which he estimated as 15 miles.  He estimated the
engine spacing to be 45 - 50 ft, although 60 ft would have been
a better estimate.  By this means he was essentially providing
an angular size, measured front-to-back, for the objects:  the
equivalent of about 50 (or 60) ft at 15 miles.  He reported the
size of the objects as 45 - 50 ft by comparison with the
airplane as if the plane had been at the same distance as the
objects.  However, the plane was not at the same distance, so a
correction for the distance difference is necessary. It is
possible to make an estimate of the front-to-back size of the
objects assuming his estimate of the distance to the DC-4, 15
miles, was (approximately) correct.  Using the outer engine
spacing as 60 ft, the angular size at his estimated distance is
60/(15 x 5280) =  0.00076 radians or about 2.6 minutes of arc (1
degree = 60 minutes = 0.0174 radians).  Projecting this angle to
20 miles, the rough distance of the objects, would yield a size
of about (20 x 5280 x 0.00075  =) 80 ft.  Had he overestimated
the distance to the DC-4 (if it had been less than 15 miles
away) the calculated angular size, and hence the calculated
object size would increase.  If he underestimated the distance
to the DC-4, then the calculated size of the objects would
decrease.  My own suspicion is that he overestimated the
distance and that therefore the objects were larger than 80 ft
in length.  Unfortunately no investigator pursued this size
estimate at the time and with Arnold's death many years ago it
is no longer possible to improve the size estimate. Using the
dashboard clock in his airplane Arnold measured the time from
when the first object passed the side of Mt. Rainier until the
last object passed Mt. Adams.  The distance from the flank of
Mt. Rainier to the peak of Mt. Adams is about 45 miles
(depending upon where on the side one picks as the starting
point).  Since the length of the "chain" of objects was about 5
miles, the leading object was about 5 miles south of Mt. Adams
when the last object passed Mt. Adams.  Hence the total distance
it (and the others) traveled was about 50 miles in 102 seconds.
This corresponds to a speed of about 1,760 mph.  (Arnold
intentionally underestimated this speed, saying that it was
1,200 mph or more, which was still faster than any aircraft of
the day.  Chuck Yaeger was the first person to "break" the
"sound barrier" at about 700 mph in October, 1947.) Arnold
estimated that he had the objects in view for a total of about
2.5 to 3 minutes.  During that time, if their speed was
constant, they may have traveled a total of 80 to 90 miles,
starting from a location about 30 or 40 miles north of Mt.
Rainier where Arnold first saw them (not from the 100 mile
distance near Mt. Baker, as Arnold had thought) to some distance
south of Mt. Adams, where they disappeared from view.  When
Arnold landed at Yakima, Washington, he told some of the people
at the airport about these amazing high speed aircraft.

*******

ARNOLD REPORTS HIS SIGHTING

   (L) When I landed at Yakima, Washington airport I described what I had seen t
o my very good friend Al Baxter, who listened patiently and was very courteous b
ut in a joking way didn't believe me.

******

COMMENT: Arnold then left the airport to fly to Pendleton,
Oregon on a business trip.  The discussion of his sighting
presumably would have ended in Yakima if it hadn't been for the
fact that someone at the airport contacted the press to report
that some new, high speed aircraft had been sighted.  When
Arnold arrived at Pendelton he was surprised to find a number of
reporters eager to learn about the new aircraft.  Arnold told
them about the sighting and his (under)estimated speed of 1,200
mph.  He then described how they flew:  they wobbled and
flipped, like saucers skipping on the water.  A reporter,
hearing the description, coined a name for the new aircraft, a
name which we have been stuck with ever since: FLYING SAUCERS.

*******

(L) I did not accurately measure the distance between these two
mountains (Note:  Rainier and Adams) until I landed at
Pendleton, Oregon, that same day where I told a number of pilot
friends of mine what I had observed and they did not scoff or
laugh but suggested they might be guided missiles or something
new.  In fact several former Army pilots informed me that they
had been briefed before going into combat overseas that they
might see objects of similar shape and design as I described and
assured me that I wasn't dreaming or going crazy.  .....A former
Army Air Forces pilot ...(told me)..."What you observed, I am
convinced, is some type of jet or rocket propelled ship that is
in the process of being tested by our government or even it
could possibly be by some foreign government."

____________________________________________________________

EXPLANATIONS OFFERED FOR KENNETH ARNOLD'S SIGHTING

The official Air Force explanation is that Arnold saw a mirage.
Having read the previous material you may wonder how the Air
Force could justify that explanation.  The answer is not
straightforward.  The Air Force intelligence officers who
investigated the initial saucer reports in the summer of 1947
and through the summer of 1948 treated all of the sightings,
including Arnold's, seriously.  This was, at least in part, a
result of the fact that a number of Air Force pilots reported
seeing flying saucers.  Arnold's sighting was included as
unexplained in the Top Secret intelligence memorandum compiled
by Air Force intelligence at the Pentagon during the late fall
of 1948 (ref. 3).  However, in the early fall of 1948 General
Hoyt Vandenburg rejected the conclusion expressed in the
"Estimate of the Situation" that saucers were interplanetary
vehicles (See ref. 4.  Captain Edward Ruppelt, who was the
director of Project Blue Book from late 1951 to early 1953,
wrote that the Estimate was written by technical intelligence
analysts at Wright Patterson AFB who had concluded, in August,
1948, that "interplanetary" was the only logical explanation.
They wrote the Estimate of the Situation and sometime in
September sent it to General Hoyt Vandenburg Chief of Staff of
the Air Force.  He rejected the conclusion.  The analysts, who
were the acknowledged experts in analysis of foreign
aerodynamic vehicles, then visited the general to argue their
case, but they were told by something like this: "Sorry,wrong
answer!") By rejecting the Estimate Vandenburg effectively
established an Air Force policy that the �interplanetary
hypothesis� was not to be considered as a possible explanation
for any sighting.  Another alternative, that the Russians had
made immense improvements on German aircraft developed during
WWII and were flying their new aircraft over the United States,
was too much for the intelligence analysts to accept.
Therefore they were forced to come up with some conventional
explanation for each sighting even if there was no logical
conventional explanation.  The "urge to explain" biased the
sighting analyses done during Projects Grudge (1949-1951) and
Blue Book (1951 - 1969).  This sorry situation is described
more fully, with numerous examples, in ref. 12.

Explanations for Arnold's sighting were proposed by two
scientists with close connections to the Air Force project.
These skeptical scientists were Dr. J. Allen Hynek and Dr.
Donald Menzel.  Dr. Hynek, a professor at Ohio State University
and then at Northwestern University, was the astronomy
consultant to the Air Force's UFO projects starting with
Project Sign in 1948 and continuing through the end of Project
Blue Book in 1969.  Although his specialty was astronomy he was
asked to suggest explanations for all types of sightings.  Dr.
Menzel was an astrophysicist and director of the Harvard
Observatory during the same time period.  Dr. Hynek, who died
in 1986, reversed his skeptical stance toward UFO reports in
the late 1960's and, in 1973, founded the Center for UFO
Studies, headquartered in Chicago, Illinois.  Dr. Menzel, who
died in 1976, never retreated from his published opinion that
all sightings by credible observers could be explained, many as
meteorological phenomena.

In 1948 Dr. Hynek (who was not aware of the Top Secret Air
Intelligence Report (ref. 3)) was hired to analyze sightings
and to decide which ones could be catagorized as misidentified
astronomical phenomena.  As a "side benefit" to the Air Force
he also gave his opinion on the other sightings, including
Arnold's. (rev. 9)

Hynek began his analysis of the sighting by assuming that at
least part of what Arnold said was true: that Arnold could see
the overall shape of the objects, that he could see them
edge-on, and that he thought their width was about twenty times
greater than their thickness.  Hynek decided to try to
calculate their size based on the basic visual capabilities of
the human eye.  He pointed out that the angular resolution of
the human eye is typically about 3 minutes of arc (1 minute of
arc = 1/60 of a degree = 0.00029 radians = 0.29 mr, where mr is
the abbreviation for milliradians; the angular size of the moon
is about 1/2 degree or about 30 minutes of arc or about  8.7
mr).  He then claimed that if the vertical angular size, i.e.,
the apparent thickness,  were substantially less than this,
Arnold could not have seen the objects.  Hence, Hynek concluded
that the thickness must have been at least 3 minutes of arc
(about one tenth of the apparent size of the moon).  Hynek
calculated that this angular size corresponds to a thickness of
about 100 feet at the greatest distance estimated by Arnold, 25
miles.  Therefore, if Arnold's 20:1 ratio of length to
thickness were correct, then the objects were about about 2,000
ft long.  Dr. Hynek could not accept the idea that 2,000 ft
long objects were flying at high speed through the earth's
atmosphere.  It was just too ridiculously large.

But, on the other hand, Arnold had not said that the objects
were that large. He had estimated that the objects were the
size of fighter aircraft with typical lengths of 40 to 50 ft.
One may imagine Hynek saying to himself, �Aha, a contradiction!
There must be an error in Arnold�s estimates.�  Hynek
calculated that if, indeed, they had been this short then they
would have been too small for Arnold to see any details.
Furthermore, if the 20:1 ratio were correct, they would have
been too thin to see edge-on if 25 miles away.  Thus Hynek
noted an inconsistency in Arnold's report:  if the objects'
size and distance were as estimated by Arnold he could not have
seen any details of their shape because he could not have been
seen them at all!

Hynek decided to resolve the inconsistency by ignoring both
Arnold's distance and size estimates.  Instead, Hynek argued
that if the objects were a more reasonable size, say, the size
of the largest known aircraft, roughly 400 ft long and 30 feet
high, then they must have been much closer to Arnold in order
for them to be seen "edge on."  Hynek estimated their distance
at 6 miles.  At this distance the aircraft could appear (from
the position of Arnold's plane) to travel past Mt. Rainier and
then past Mt. Adams in 102 seconds if their speed were only
about 400 mph.  Hynek concluded as follows: "in view of the
above (calculations) it appears probable" that Arnold saw "some
sort of known aircraft."

As a result of Hynek's discussion of the discrepancy between
Arnold's estimates of the distance and size of the objects, the
Air Force officers who wrote the final report of Project Grudge
in the spring of 1949 decided that "the entire report of this
incident is replete with inconsistencies and cannot bear even
superficial examination." (ref. 9)

So, what about Hynek's argument that the objects would have
been too thin to be visible, based on his claim that the human
eye can't see something smaller than 3 arc minutes in angular
size?  Does it make any sense at all?  The answer to this
question is no, and it comes in two parts.  First, the fact is
that many people can "see" objects smaller than 3 arc minutes
in angular size, especially if they are larger than this in one
dimension (e.g., like a long cylinder, such as a long wire,
viewed from the side).  The second part of the answer comes
directly from Arnold's report to the Air Force.  Although it
would have been "nice" if Arnold could have taken an eye test
to provide Hynek with actual visual acuity data, the fact is
that some information in his report, information that Hynek
ignored, provides us with a clue as to Arnold's visual acuity.
He said he was able to see a DC-4 at 15 miles (estimated
distance) and he compared the spacing of the engines on the
plane with the apparent size of the saucers.  With its visible
height of about 23 ft, the vertical angular size of the DC-4 at
that distance was about 0.00034 radians or about 1 arc minute.
(Even if Arnold overestimated the distance and it was really 10
miles away then vertical angular size would still have been
less then 2 arc minutes.)  Hence, by Hynek's criterion, Arnold
should not have been able to see the DC-4, and certainly he
wouldn't have been able to see the engines and thereby to see
the spacing of the engines.  But Arnold said that he did see
the airplane and its engines and Hynek did not dispute that
statement.  Therefore Hynek's objection...the
"inconsistency"... must be rejected.

Had Dr. Hynek tested his hypothetical explanation - "known
aircraft" -  against the information in Arnold's report he
might have rejected his own explanation.  To test Hynek's
explanation assume that the unknown objects were ordinary large
aircraft six miles away and ask the following question: why
wasn't Arnold able to identify them, to see their engines,
tails, wings, etc., even though Arnold was able to identify
another aircraft that was about 15 miles away?  Evidently Hynek
did not notice the inconsistency in his own analysis.  Had
Hynek done what skeptics usually fail to do, that is, to
thoroughly test his suggested explanation against the data, he
would have seen that his hypothetical solution failed.

It is amusing to imagine what would have happened if Hynek had
accepted Arnold's distance estimate.  Then he would have been
forced to accept the high velocity (about 1,700 mph), in which
case it is conceivable that the early history of the UFO
subject would be different from what actually occurred.  But
instead, Hynek, for good scientific reasons, I presume, chose
to take the road more traveled by...to reject important parts
of Arnold's sighting...and that has made all the difference
(with apologies to poet Robert Frost!).  The handwriting was on
the wall, but Hynek looked the other way.

Dr. Hynek's work was done secretly for the Air Force and his
discussion of Arnold's sighting was not published, although his
conclusion was mentioned in the "Project Saucer" report
published by the Air Materiel Command at Wright Field (now
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base) on April 27, 1949.  Few
civilian scientists had access to Air Force files and so there
was no dispute of Hynek's analysis until Dr. Donald Menzel
decided to write about Arnold's sighting in his first book on
UFOs, which was published in 1953 (ref. 5).  This was the first
flying saucer book by a scientist and, because of his stature
in the field of astrophysics, it was treated very seriously.
It received favorable reviews, although there were some
atmospheric scientists who questioned Menzel's use of weather
phenomena to explain sightings.  Libraries and scientific
organizations throughout the United States and in other
countries ordered the book and it became an important reference
for scientists in the following years.  In retrospect this is
unfortunate since, as I will demonstrate, Menzel did not
provide accurate descriptions of some sightings and he
apparently slanted the data as necessary to make his
explanations fit, beginning with Arnold's sighting.

Menzel criticized the Air Force for accepting Hynek's
suggestion that Arnold had seen rather close aircraft.  He gave
a brief description of Arnold's sighting and mentioned Arnold's
estimate of distance and total sighting duration (3 minutes).
Menzel wrote, "He clocked the speed at about 1,200 miles an
hour, although this figure seems inconsistent with the length
of time that he estimated them to be in view.  From his
previous statement they could scarcely have traveled more than
25 miles during the three minutes that he watched.  This gives
about 500 miles an hour, which is still a figure large enough
to be startling.."  Menzel did not tell the reader that Arnold
had timed the flight of the objects between two points.
Instead, Menzel invented a travel distance of 25 miles, and
implied that this distance was covered in 3 minutes (180
seconds).  Hence he was able to assign a much lower, although
"startling," speed of 500 mph.

Menzel went on to "solve" the mystery of Arnold's sighting:
"Although what Arnold saw has remained a mystery until this
day, I simply cannot understand why the simplest and most
obvious explanation of all has been overlooked.... the
association of the saucers with the hogback (of the mountain
range south of Mt. Rainier).... serves to fix their distance
and approximate size and roughly confirms Arnold's estimate of
the speed."  (note that Menzel, unlike Hynek, accepted Arnold's
distance estimate).  Menzel then went on to suggest that Arnold
saw "billowing blasts of snow, ballooning up from the tops of
the ridges" caused by highly turbulent air along the mountain
range.  According to Menzel, "These rapidly shifting, tilting
clouds of snow would reflect the sun like a mirror...and the
rocking surfaces would make the chain sweep along something
like a wave, with only a momentary reflection from crest to
crest."

This first explanation by a scientist with the reputation of
Dr. Menzel may seem slightly convincing, but only until one
realizes that (a) snow cannot reflect light rays from the sun
(60 deg elevation angle) into a horizontal direction toward
Arnold's airplane and thereby create the very bright flashes
that Arnold reported in the same way that a polished metal
surface or mirror would, (b) there are no 1,200 mph or even 500
mph winds on the surface of the earth to transport clouds of
snow (fortunately!), (c) there are no winds that would carry
clouds of snow all the way from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams
(Arnold saw the objects pass Mt. Adams before they were lost to
his view), (d) Arnold flew eastward along a path that took him
south of Mt. Rainier minutes later and surely his plane would
have been strongly buffeted (and perhaps destroyed!) by such
high winds, but he reported, instead, very calm conditions, (e)
an atmospheric oscillation wave can't bend or reflect light
over an angle of nearly 60 degrees, which would be necessary to
make it appear as if the sun had been reflected by objects
nearly at Arnold's altitude, and (f) an atmospheric oscillation
wave with a "phase velocity" of 1,200 mph is unlikely, but in
any case, when traveling southward its crests would be oriented
east-west, so if it reflected any sunlight at all (highly
unlikely), the reflection would be in the north-south direction
and not westward toward Arnold's plane.  Furthermore, even if
such amazing atmospheric phenomena had occurred, it is
difficult to imagine how Arnold could have failed to realize
that he was just seeing snow blowing from the mountain tops,
especially since he flew over the mountains about 12 miles
south of Mt. Rainier on his way east just a few minutes after
the sighting.

In case the first explanation wasn't sufficiently convincing,
Menzel offered "another possibility:"  he suggested that
perhaps there was a thin layer of fog, haze or dust just above
or just below Arnold's altitude which was caused to move
violently by air circulation and which reflected the sunlight.
Menzel claimed that such layers can "reflect the sun in almost
mirror fashion."  Menzel offered no substantiation for this
claim.  Perhaps he was thinking in terms of a "reflection" from
an atmospheric layer when the sun is so low on the horizon that
the light rays make a "grazing angle" with the layer.  If so,
then that explanation as applied to the Arnold sighting makes
no sense since the sun was at an elevation of 60 degrees and
southwest of Arnold.  Furthermore, layers form under stable
conditions and violent air circulation would tend to break them
up so there would be no "reflections" of sunlight.  Again, one
wonders how Arnold could have failed to notice that he was just
seeing the effects of a haze layer.

Ten years after his first book, Dr. Menzel offered his third,
fourth and fifth explanations in his second book (ref. 6,
written with Lyle Boyd): mountain top mirages, "orographic
clouds" and "wave clouds in motion".  To support the third
explanation he presented a photograph of mountain top mirages
taken by a photographer many years earlier, and proposed by the
photographer, as the explanation for Arnold's sighting.  (This
is the explanation which appears in the files of Project Blue
Book, the "official" Air Force explanation.  These files are
available to be reviewed on microfilm at the National
Archives.) The mirages appear as vague images above the tops of
the mountains.  (Actually the mirage is an inverted image of
the top of the mountain.)  These mirages can be seen under
proper atmospheric conditions (requiring a stable atmosphere)
when the line of sight from the observer to the mountain top is
tilted by no more than one half of a degree above or below
horizontal.  Unintentionally (or intentionally?) Menzel failed
to report in his book the following information in Arnold's
report: as they traveled southward he saw them silhouetted
against the side of Mt. Rainier which is 14,400 ft high, much
higher than the altitude of the saucers.  Since mountain top
mirages occur above the mountain peaks these objects were far
below any mirage of Mt. Rainier.  Of course, mountain top
mirages stay above the tops of the mountains, so the mirage
theory cannot explain the lateral high speed movement of the
objects reported by Arnold.  Nor can a mirage explain the brght
flashes of light from the objects.

Menzel's fourth explanation was that Arnold saw orographic
clouds which can assume circular shapes and often form in the
lees (i.e., downwind of) mountain peaks.  The clouds would, of
course, be large but, as Menzel notes in his book, they "appear
to stand more or less motionless."  The lack of motion, as well
as the lack of bright reflections, rules them out so, why did
he even mention them?  Also, Arnold would have realized they
were just clouds as he flew past Mt. Rainier only minutes
later.

Menzel's fifth explanation, wave clouds, is comparable to his
first suggestion of "billowing blasts" of snow except that this
time he proposed clouds of water vapor instead of snow.  In his
second book this explanation was supported by a photograph of
such a cloud taken by a newspaper photographer.  However, this
explanation, too, fails to account for the very bright
reflections reported by Arnold, for distinct semi-circular
shapes and for the high lateral speed.  Again, Arnold surely
would have recognized a cloud as he flew past Mt. Rainier.

In his third and last UFO book (ref. 7; written with Dr. Ernst
Taves in the early 1970's, just before Menzel died), which is
subtitled "The Definitive Explanation of the UFO Phenomenon,"
Menzel again discussed Arnold's sighting and offered his sixth
(and last) explanation: Arnold saw water drops on the window of
his aircraft.

To support this explanation Menzel described a sighting of his
own that turned out to be water drops that had condensed on the
outside of the window of an aircraft in which he was flying.
They moved slowly backwards from the front of the window.  They
were so close to his eyes as he looked out the window that they
were out of focus and he thought they were distant objects
moving at a great speed until, after a few seconds, he
refocused his eyes and discovered what they were.  In comparing
his "sighting" with Arnold's, Menzel writes: "I cannot, of
course, say definitely that what Arnold saw were merely
raindrops on the window of this plane.  He would doubtless
insist that there was no rain at the altitude at which he was
flying.  But many queer things happen at different levels in
the earth's atmosphere."

Although no one would argue with Menzel's claim that "queer
things" happen at different levels of the atmosphere, this fact
is irrelevant.  Had Menzel bothered to carefully read Arnold's
letter to the Air Force he would have seen Arnold's statement
that he turned his plane sideways and viewed the objects
through an open window to be sure that he was getting no
reflections from window glass.  (Fortunately Menzel did not
propose water drops on Arnold's eyes!)

The �bottom line� is that neither Hynek nor Menzel proposed
reasonable explanations for Arnold�s sighting, but that didn't
stop the Air Force from accepting one of them (mirage).

Recently (1998-99) some skeptics have proposed that Arnold saw
a flight of geese or pelicans heading southward at high
altitude (about 9,000 ft).  These birds were proposed because
they can fly quite rapidly, perhaps up to 50 miles per hour.
Of course they would have been quite close to Arnold for him to
see them (80 ft objects at 20 miles subtend the same angle as 4
ft long objects at 1 mile; this size refers to the length of
the bodies of the birds; the wings would have been seen nearly
edge-on and so, although the wingspan might be as much as 12
ft, this size would not have been seen broadside, but in a
foreshortened perspective). Of course, these birds would not
cause bright mirror-like reflections of the sun but, as
skeptics often do, they ignored that "minor" detail or tried to
imagine that Arnold incorrectly reported the bright "flashing"
of these objects (perhaps assuming that Arnold got it wrong or
simply lied about it).  They also ignored Arnold's claim that
he turned his plane, rolled down his window (to view them
without glass in the way) and flew parallel to the flight path
of the objects for a short time. Arnold did not report his
air speed.  However, because of the type of aircraft he was
flying his speed would definitely have been above a stall speed
of 80 mph and probably above 100 mph.  By drawing a map, using
a reasonable assumption about Arnold's flight path and and a
reasonable assumption about the path of hypothetical pelicans
or geese, one can show that the birds would never appear to
pass Mt. Rainier and then, 100 or so seconds later,  appear to
pass Mt. Adams, from Arnold's (moving) perspective.  Rather,
Arnold would be more likely to cross their flight track and
have to look backward at them. In any case he would have
realized immediately that they were relatively slow compared to
his speed and certainly he wouldn't have estimated their speed
at anything like 1,700 miles per hour, or even 100 miles per
hour.  In other words, had they been birds, even if
unrecognized by Arnold, he would have had no reason to think
that he was seeing radically new aircraft with extreme flight
capabilities, so his whole report would have to be a
fabrication.

In June, 1997, just in time for the 50th anniversary of
Arnold's sighting, San Francisco Examiner writer Keay Davidson
published another suggested explanation: meteors.  The details
of the explanation are given in a small monthly publication by
Philip Klass which he calls the Skeptics UFO Newsletter
(SKUFON; issue #46 of July 1997).  (One wonders why it took 50
years for this explanation to be proposed.  Could it be that
previous skeptics considered this to be just too "outrageous?")
Mr. Klass has been writing articles and books purporting to
explain UFO sightings for at least the last 30 years, yet he
has not previously "explained" the Arnold sighting. (His first
book, UFOS IDENTIFIED was published in 1968.)

According to Mr. Klass writing in SKUFON the new explanation
was published by Mr. Davidson after some research that was
"sparked by a conversation" with Mr. Klass. The exact nature
of this conversation was not reported, but one may imagine
Klass suggested that Davidson ought to check on the possibility
that Arnold saw meteors. According to Klass, after some
research Davidson discovered that "the number of meteor falls
reaches a peak around 3:00 PM," in June in the northern
hemisphere.  Arnold's sighting occurred at 3:00 PM, June 24,
1947.  Thus, according to Klass' article, the large number of
meteors detected in June lends support to the meteor
hypothesis.  (The astute reader will note the careful,
"lawyerly" use of words:  "lends support to" which is not the
same as "proves" or "is evidence for.")

Klass' SKUFON article mentions Arnold's statement that the
objects seemed bright and shiny as if reflecting the sun.  By
way of comparison and explanation Klass cites the 6:00 PM,
June, 5, 1969 pilot sighting, which he claims turned out to be
several meteors, in order to point out that meteors, when seen
in the daytime, can look as if they are shiny metal.  These
pilots saw the bright objects seeming to come toward them
(i.e., they were looking along the trajectory of the objects)
and thought they were looking at shiny metallic objects.  The
pilots thought the objects were close, when in fact they were
over a hundred miles away.

Klass also pointed out that pilots can make errors (as if we
didn't know that!).  The implication is that if the 1969 pilots
could mistake daytime meteors for UFOS, then perhaps Arnold
did, also.  However, the Arnold sighting was quite different
from the 1969 sighting.

Arnold reported seeing repeated bright flashes at varying time
intervals from nine objects traveling one after another, along
a roughly horizontal trajectory.  Their altitude was about
6,000 ft (since they traveled at the level of the mountain
peaks south of Mt. Rainier). He realized that the flashes
occurred as the objects tilted steeply to the left and right as
they flew along a southward path. Arnold concluded that the
flashes were a result of reflections of light from the sun
which was high in the sky to the west (behind him).  The
objects flew southward past Mt. Rainier and, when they weren't
tilted, he saw them as thin dark lines silhouetted against the
snow on the sides of  Mt. Rainier.  When they were tilted but
not aligned with the sun so as to make a bright flash, he saw
them as semi-circular at the front with convex, somewhat
pointed rear ends (one seemed to have a double concave crescent
shape at the rear).

By way of contrast, meteors which are traveling fast enough to
appear to glow do not dim to the point of being "not bright"
and then brighten again.  This is because, as Klass correctly
points out, what causes the light is the high velocity of the
meteor passing through atmosphere.  The meteor is traveling so
fast  that it "instantaneously" heats the air as it passes
through. (Note: Klass gives a meteor speed as 10,000 mph or
2.8 mi/sec.  However, this is lower than that of any body
entering the earths atmosphere from space. Free fall to the
earth from a great distance would produce a speed of  about 7.4
mi/sec at the earth's surface in the absence of atmosphere.
Orbital speed, which is lower than meteoric speed but still
large enough to cause a plasma in the upper atmosphere, is
about 5 mi/sec.) This heating is a very rapid process caused
by the meteor compressing the air ahead of it and raising the
temperature (kinetic energy of the air molecules) to the point
where the air becomes ionized (a plasma). In returning to the
un-ionized state (free electrons reuniting with the
atoms/molecules) the atoms/molecules give off light which
appears to envelop the meteor (one does not see the meteor
itself, but rather the envelope of heated air). The natural
tendency of a meteor is to slow down as it meets with
resistance while forcing itself at high speed through the
atmosphere.  If it slows to a speed low enough so that it no
longer creates a plasma it will become dark  (not giving off
light) and will not again appear bright since there is no way
for it to regain its lost speed. At the high altitudes of
meteors (50 miles and up) the atmosphere is quite thin and
easily heated to the plasma state by the speed of the meteor.
Furthermore the air resistance is quite low, so the meteor can
travel a great distance before being slowed to "sub-plasma"
speed.  However, as the altitude decreases the atmospheric
density increases and it takes ever more energy from the meteor
to maintain a glowing plasma. It is doubtful that any meteor
would be still glowing at an altitude of 10,000 ft, but if it
were, it would be quite large and eventually slowed to the
point of hitting the earth.  The suggestion that one.. or
several... meteors could travel many miles horizontally at a
speed high enough to glow while at an altitude below 10,000 ft
is not supported by any known physics of meteors.

Klass points out that Arnold estimated he saw the objects for 2
1/2 to 3 minutes. This included about 1/2 minute of time
before they passed Mt. Rainier and another nearly 2 minutes
after they passed Rainier. This would be "extra long" for a
meteor (most burn out in a second or so; large meteors called
fireballs can last many seconds). Hence Klass argues that
Arnold's time estimate was probably wrong.  He points out that
"witnesses are notoriously unreliable in estimating the time
duration of unexpected events" and cites the Mar. 3, 1968
reentry of the Zond Soviet space rocket as an example in which
witness errors resulted in sighting duration estimates as low
as 15 seconds and as high as 5 minutes.

There is an important difference between Klass' example of
witness error and the Arnold sighting:  Arnold used a clock!

Klass acknowledges that Arnold used his dashboard clock to time
the passage of the objects between Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams
but Klass does not mention the time duration reported by
Arnold. Instead, he writes as follows:  "SUN questions
whether Arnold...who was focusing his attention on the unusual
obejcts while also occupied flying his aircraft... would have
taken his eyes off the objects to carefully observe his cockpit
clock." In other words,  Klass questions the accuracy of the
witness' claims about his own actions.  If the actions seem
illogical to Klass, then the actions are suspect and, of
course, any data resulting from the actions are suspect.

So, why did Arnold do such an "illogical" thing as look at his
dashboard clock as the objects were disappearing?  Even though
Klass used Arnold's letter to the Air Force as a reference, he
does not tell his readers that Arnold wrote that he
intentionally measured the speed:  "I had two definite points I
could clock them by" (he was referring to Mt. Rainier and Mt.
Adams) He reported that he could see the objects were flying
southward so he looked at his dashboard clock as the first
object passed the south flank of Mt. Rainier.  He then watched
the objects as they continued southward.  During this time the
objects passed over a ridge that is about 5 miles long.
According to Arnold "the first one was passing the south crest
of the ridge" as the last one "was entering the northern
crest." Hence they covered a total distance of about 5 miles.
By the time they were passing Mt. Adams they were so far away
he could only see their flashes. At this point there was *no
reason to continue watching carefully* because they were fading
out in the distance. Therefore he wasn't missing anything by
taking his eyes off the objects to look at the clock. The
second hand on his clock showed that 102 seconds had passed.
(Note:  he was able to pay attention to the objects even though
flying the plane because, as he reported, the atmosphere was
calm and clear and there were no aircraft in his vicinity; the
closest aircraft was roughly 15 miles north and heading away
from him.)

The calculated speed based on Arnold's measured time between
Rainier and Adams is by itself sufficient to reject the meteor
explanation (is this why Klass did not report the calculated
speed?).  The objects traveled about 50 miles in 102 seconds,
corresponding to a speed of about 1,700 mph, far below any
meteoric speed and certainly not enough to make the atmosphere
glow.

By way of comparison, if one were to hypothesize a meteor in a
level trajectory traveling at essentially orbital speed but at
an altitude of 6,000 ft, it would have required roughly 9 - 10
seconds to travel from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams. Even at
Klass' underestimated speed of 10,000 mph the flight time
between the peaks would be only about 17 seconds. One would
hope that Arnold, using his dashboard clock, could tell the
difference between  102 seconds and 10 (or 17) seconds.

Aside from the difficulty in imagining that Arnold could
mistake 10 seconds for 102 seconds, the mere suggestion that a
meteor, or nine such meteors, could travel at a meteoric speed
at an altitude of 6,000 ft while glowing brightly is far
outside the accepted meteor phenomenology. Meteors cool as
they penetrate the lower atmosphere, or rather the speed
decreases to the point that they are no longer ionizing the
dense air.  Hence the basic concept that Arnold saw bright
meteors traveling past Mt. Rainier must be rejected.

Consider, now the number of explanations offered for the Arnold
sighting:  mirage (Hynek), blasts of snow (Menzel), haze
reflection (Menzel), mirage (Menzel), orographic clouds
(Menzel), wave clouds in motion (Menzel, water drops on the
windshield (Menzel), birds (recent skeptics) and meteors
(Klass/Davidson).

With all these available explanations, surely the Arnold
sighting has been explained?

NOT!

________________________________________________________

THE PROSPECTOR'S SIGHTING

As fate would have it, a second witness saw the same objects as
Arnold.  His sighting occurred just as Arnold was losing sight
of them near Mt. Adams.  (Dr. Hynek evidently was not aware of
this because he indicated in his analysis of the Arnold sighting
that there were no other witnesses.)

In the latter half of August the Air Force received an
unsolicited letter dated August 20, 1947, which reads as follows
(the errors in the original letter are preserved; emphasis
added):

*****

Sir.

Saw in the portland paper a short time ago in regards to an
article in regards to the so called flying disc having any basis
in fact.  I can say am a prospector and was in the Mt Adams
district on June 24th the day Kenneth Arnold of Boise Idaho
claims he saw a formation of flying disc.  And i saw the same
flying objects at about the same time.  Having a telescope with
me at the time i can asure you they are real and noting like
them I ever saw before they did not pass verry high over where I
was standing at the the time.  plobly 1000 ft.  they were Round
about 30 foot in dimater tapering sharply to a point in the head
and in an oval shape.  with a bright top surface.  I did not
hear any noise as you would from a plane.  But there was an
object in the tail end looked like a big hand of a clock
shifting from side to side like a big magenet.  There speed as
far as i know seemed to be greater than anything I ever saw.
Last view I got of the objects they were standing on edge
Banking in a Cloud.

   Yours Respectfully
   (Fred Johnson)

*******

(Note: the Blue Book file page which contains this letter is
labelled "A TRUE COPY" that was authenticated by Lt. Col. Donald
Springer.  I assume that the errors in the above letter were in
the original letter and were not simply errors in copying.)

At this time during the summer of 1947 the FBI was actively
investigating sightings, at the request of the Army Air Force,
to determine whether or not any such reports could be part of
subversive activities carried on by enemies of the United
States.  (Yes, the "X-Files" are real,as described in ref. 12.
The FBI ended these investigations, having found no evidence of
subversion, in the fall of 1947.)  Therefore, at the request of
the Air Force, an FBI agent interviewed Mr. Johnson.  He sent a
copy of his report to FBI headquarters in Washington, DC, with
the title "REPORTS OF FLYING DISCS, SECURITY MATTER -X." This
report was discovered when the FBI responded to a Freedom of
Information Act request which I made in 1976 for any documents
concerning flying saucers, UFOs, etc.  The FBI found well over
1,000 pages of material relating to the Air Force investigation
of UFOs, internal memoranda and sightings reported to FBI (see
ref. 12).  The FBI report on Johnson's sighting reads as
follows:

*******

(Fred Johnson, resident of) First Avenue, Portland (Oregon),
reported without consulting any records that on June 24, 1947,
while prospecting at a point in the Cascade Mountains
approximately five thousand feet from sea level, during the
afternoon he noticed a reflection, looked up, and saw a disc
proceeding in a southeasterly direction.  Immediately upon
sighting this object he placed his telescope to his eye and
observed the disc for approximately forty-five to sixty seconds.
He remarked that it is possible for him to pick up an object at
a distance of ten miles with his telescope.  At the time the
disc was sighted by Johnson it was banking in the sun, and he
observed five or six similar objects but only concentrated on
one.  He related that they did not fly in any particular
formation and that he would estimate their height to be about
one thousand feet from where he was standing.  He said the
object was about thirty feet in diameter and appeared to have a
tail. It made no noise.

According to Johnson he remained in the vicinity of the Cascades
for several days and then returned to Portland and noted an
article in the local paper which stated in effect that a man in
Boise, Idaho, had sighted a similar object but that authorities
had disclaimed any knowledge of such an object.  He said he
communicated with the Army for the sole purpose of attempting to
add credence to the story furnished by the man in Boise.

Johnson also related that on the occasion of his sighting the
objects on June 24, 1947 he had in his possession a combination
compass and watch.  He noted particularly that immediately
before he sighted the disc the compass acted very peculiar, the
hand waving from one side to the other, but that this condition
corrected itself immediately after the discs had passed out of
sight.

Informant appeared to be a very reliable individual who advised
that he had been a prospector in the states of Montana,
Washington and Oregon for the past forty years.

*******

Mr. Johnson's letter to the Air Force indicates that he was in
the right area at the right time to see the objects which Arnold
reported.  Johnson, like Arnold, reported that his attention was
attracted to them by a reflection, possibly a flash of light on
the rocks he was examining.  He reported only five or six, but
it is likely that he missed seeing the others as he concentrated
on his telescopic view of a single one.  (Also, he was recalling
the event almost two months after it occurred, so he may well
have forgotten some details, such as the exact number of
objects.)  Adding his estimated distance of the objects above
him, 1,000 ft, to his estimated altitude, 5,000 ft, yields an
altitude for the UFOs, about 6,000 ft, which is consistent with
the altitude indicated by Arnold's claim that they were
traveling "in and out" of the mountain peaks south of Mt.
Rainier.

Johnson claimed that he watched one disc for 45 to 60 seconds.
Assuming that they were traveling at the speed calculated
previously, about 1,700 mph, in 45 seconds they would travel
about 20 miles.  Although it may have been possible that Johnson
could see the objects over a distance of 20 miles from his
location, it seems more likely that he saw them for less time.
However, even if it were only for 30 seconds with his telescope,
we may assume that he was able to discern many details that
Arnold couldn't see, such as the point on the front and the
"tail" waving side to side "like a big magenet" in the rear.
(Here I presume Johnson is comparing it with the magnetic needle
in a compass which swings left and right before reaching
equilibrium.)  He claimed that the objects were "round" and also
"oval," thus generally agreeing with Arnold's description of
nearly round objects (certainly they they weren't square or
triangular or T shaped) and he estimated that they were 30 ft in
diameter, a value that is smaller than Arnold's estimate and
smaller than the previously calculated value, suggesting that
Johnson underestimated the size.  He also stated that the speed
was "greater than anything I ever saw", which is consistent with
the speed calculated from Arnold's sighting.  He heard no noise.
He observed that while the objects were in sight the needle of
his compass waved from side to side.  The waving stopped after
the objects were out of sight.

The last statement in Johnson's letter provides important
confirmation of Arnold's claim that he was able to see flashes
of sunlight reflected from the objects.  In the previous
discussion of Arnold's sighting I pointed out that for the
objects to reflect sun toward Arnold it would be necessary for
some portion of each shiny object to tilt at least to an angle
of about 60 degrees.  The idea that the objects could tilt that
much is supported by Johnson's claim that when he last saw the
objects they were "standing on edge" while "banking in a cloud."

Aside from the apparent confirmation of Arnold's sighting,
Johnson's sighting is unique as being the first to include a
report of a physical effect during sighting (the apparent effect
on the needle of his compass).

Dr. Hynek, in reviewing all the sightings for Project Grudge in
1949, did not offer an explanation for this sighting.  Dr.
Menzel, on the other hand, claimed to have explained it while
analyzing the early sightings for his 1953 book (ref. 5).
Menzel began his review of the sighting by pointing out that it
occurred on the same day as Arnold's.  However, he did not tell
his readers that it took place at the same time in the
afternoon, nor did he mention that Johnson was near Mt. Adams at
the time and thus in the area where Arnold last saw the objects
(flying past Mt. Adams).  Thus the reader of his book would not
have known, as Menzel probably did (Menzel had access to the Air
Force files), that Johnson said he saw the objects reported by
Arnold!

Menzel accepted Johnson's sighting as real (i.e., not a hoax,
not a delusion), but explainable.  After pointing out that
Johnson observed the objects through his telescope for nearly a
minute Menzel stated his explanation:  "The behavior of the
saucers... is distinctive enough to label them as probably a
true sighting.  Bright reflections from patches of clouds were
the most likely cause."

One wonders how Menzel could seriously suggest that Johnson
could fail to realize that the objects were merely clouds after
viewing them for many seconds through a telescope as they
traveled by rapidly and were last seen banking into a cloud.

Menzel also dismissed the wobbling compass effect, arguing that
in his excitement Johnson was not able to hold the compass
steady.  This is essentially saying that Johnson, who had about
forty years of prospecting experience at the time, would not
realize that the compass would wobble if he didn't hold it
steady.

.......................................

Fred Johnson's sighting holds a unique place in the history of
the Air Force investigation.

Although I have stated that after the early fall of 1948 the Air
Force investigators were under pressure to provide conventional
explanations for all sightings because "interplanetary" was not
an option, the fact is that some sightings resisted explanation.
By the time Project Blue Book closed in 1969 the Air Force
analysts at the Air Technical Intelligence Center at
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, had collected a
total of about 13,000 sightings (1947-1969).  Of these about 700
were left unexplained.  Fred Johnson's sighting is the first of
these 700!

But, you may ask, why isn't Arnold's sighting first, if Johnson
saw the same things minutes (or less) after Arnold, and
Johnson's sighting is unexplained?  The answer is that due to
sloppy record keeping and analysis (or by intent?) these two
sightings were effectively separated (recall that Hynek did not
know that Johnson's sighting occurred immediately after
Arnold's) and hence one could not support the other. Then,
when Arnold's sighting was determined by Hynek to be "replete
with inconsistencies" it lost its credibility and was therefore
explainable (as a mirage).

(Note: the Air Force has explained its failure to identify the
700 or so unexplained sightings as follows:  there was not
enough information to allow a positive identification.  In other
words, the Air Force says, "If we had had more information we
could have identified these, too."  Although this may seem
like a reasonable explanation, the fact is that the unidentified
sightings were the ones with TOO MUCH information to allow a
reasonable identification. Johnson's sighting is a good example
of this. If he had just said "I saw some strange objects fly
over. I don� know what they were," and left it at that, any
reasonable explanation would be acceptable.  Instead, he
provided specific details.  He described high speed, large angle
tilting during flight, unusual semi-circular shape, tail
wobbling back and forth, lack of noise and the apparent magnetic
effect on his compass.  What conventional aircraft or phenomenon
had these characteristics in June, 1947?  Answer: none.  To
explain this sighting one has to reject almost the complete
description.  No wonder it was left unexplained.)

___________________________________________________________

CONCLUSION

Fifty years later it is clear that Kenneth Arnold�s (and Fred
Johnson's) sighting contained sufficient information to prove
that strange, non-manmade objects were flying around in the
atmosphere.  Therefore it is a tribute to the effectiveness of
the (yes, I�ll say it) propaganda put forth by the government
and military, and widely promulgated by the press, the
propaganda that all sightings have been or could be explained,
that society in general has not accepted the idea that at least
some reported UFOs/saucers are real, physical "hardware" objects
of odd, non-aerodynamic shape and extreme dynamical
capabilities.

It is resoundingly not a tribute to science that Dr. Menzel's
explanations carried such weight with the scientific community
that scarcely anyone complained about his atmospheric
explanations.  Instead the book was complemented for bringing a
measure of sanity to the field of flying saucer research.

Hynek�s and Menzel�s �explanations�  helped to establish the
TRADITION which we live under today, that flying saucers/ufos,
are all mistakes or hoaxes or delusions and certainly nothing to
worry about.  This TRADITION has a vary important impact on
present society... (so important that you could write a song
about it, and have portly gentleman dancing around singing
TRA-DI-TION....!)

However, careful analyses of sightings such as these by Kenneth
Arnold and Fred Johnson show that this tradition is like a house
of cards built on sand...

.... and it is crumbling.

__________________________________________________________
REFERENCES

  1.)  Daniel S. Gilmour, Ed., "The Scientific Study of
  Unidentified Flying Objects," Chapter 5, Section 1; AFOSR
  contract study F44620-67-C-0035; Edward U. Condon, Director,
  1968; Bantam Books Edition, New York, NY, 1969, pg. 481

  2.)  David. M. Jacobs, "The UFO Controversy in America,"
  Indiana University Press, (1975)

  3.)  Air Intelligence Report # 100-203-79, "Analysis of Flying
  Object Incidents in the U.S.," Directorate of Intelligence (of
  the Air Force) and Office of Naval Intelligence, 10 Dec. 1948;
  classified TOP SECRET until declassification on March 5, 1985;
  available from the Fund for UFO Research

  4.)  Edward J. Ruppelt, "The Report on Unidentified Flying
  Objects," Doubleday and Co., Garden City, NJ (1956) and Ace
  Books, NY (1956)

  5.)  Donald Menzel, "Flying Saucers," Harvard University Press,
  Cambridge, Mass., 1953

  6.)  Donald Menzel and Lyle Boyd, "The World of Flying
  Saucers," Doubleday and Co., Garden City, NY, 1963

  7.)  Donald Menzel and Ernest Taves, "The UFO Enigma,"
  Doubleday and Co., Garden City, NY, 1977

  8.)  Documents found in the files of Project Blue Book at the
  National Archives

  9.)  Ted Bloecher, "The UFO Wave of 1947," (NICAP, 1967)

30.)  J. Allen Hynek, The "Hynek UFO Report," Dell Pub. co, NY,
1977

10.)  Kenneth Arnold, The "Coming of the Saucers," privately
published (1953)

11.)  Kenneth Arnold, letter to the Army Air Force in the files
of Project Blue Book (National Archives)

12.)  Maccabee, Bruce, "THE FBI-UFO CONNECTION/ the REAL
X-Files"

___________________________________________________________



APPENDIX

RADIO INTERVIEW OF KENNETH ARNOLD,  June 25, 1947

I thank Mike Christol for providing the audiotape and John
Powell for transcribing it and posting it on the Encounters
Forum of Compuserve

This is probably Arnold�s the first radio interview.

****

NEWSCASTER:

The nation, every newscaster, and every newspaper across
thenation has made headlines out of it, and this afternoon we
are honored,indeed, to have here in our studio this man, Kenneth
Arnold, who, webelieve, may be able to give us a first-hand
account and give you thesame on what happened.

Kenneth, first of all if you'll move up here to the
microphonejust a little closer, we'll ask you to just tell in
your own fashion, asyou told us last night in your hotel room,
and again this morning, whatyou were doing there and how this
entire thing started.  Go ahead,Kenneth.


KENNETH ARNOLD:

Well, about 2:15 I took off from Chehalis, Washington, en route
to Yakima, and, of course, every time that any of us fly over
the country near Mt. Rainier, we spend an hour or two in search
of the Marine plane that's never been found that they believe is
in the snow someplace southwest of that particular area.  That
area is located at about, it's elevation is about 10,000 foot,
and I had made one sweep in close to Mt. Rainier and down one of
the canyons and was dragging it for any types of objects that
might prove to be the Marine ship, uh, and as I come out of the
canyon there, was about 15 minutes, I was approximately 25 to 28
miles from Mt. Rainier, I climbed back up to 9200 feet and I
noticed to the left of me a chain which looked to me like the
tail of a Chinese kite, kind of weaving and going at a terrific
speed across the face of Mt. Rainier.  I, at first, thought they
were geese because it flew like geese, but it was going so fast
that I immediately changed my mind and decided it was a bunch of
new jet planes in formation.  Well, as the plane come to the
edge of Mt. Rainier flying at about 160 degrees south, I thought
I would clock them because it was such a clear day, and I didn't
know where their destination was, but due to the fact that I had
Mt. Saint Helens and Mt. Adams to clock  them by, I just thought
I'd see just how fast they were going, since among pilots we
argue about speed so much.  And, they seemed to flip and flash
in the sun, just like a mirror, and, in fact, I happened to be
in an angle from the sun that seemed to hit the tops of these
peculiar looking things in such a way that it almost blinded you
when you looked at them through your plexiglass windshield.
Well, uh, I uh, it was about one minute to three when I started
clocking them on my sweep second hand clock, and as I kept
looking at them, I kept looking for their tails, and they didn't
have any tail.  I thought, well, maybe something's wrong with my
eyes and I turned the plane around and opened the window, and
looked out the window, and sure enough, I couldn't find any
tails on 'em.  And, uh, the whole, our observation of these
particular ships, didn't last more than about two and a half
minutes and I could see them only plainly when they seemed to
tip their wing, or whatever it was, and the sun flashed on them.
They looked something like a pie plate that was cut in half with
a sort of a convex triangle in the rear. Now, I thought, well,
that maybe they're jet planes with just the tails painted green
or brown or something, and I didn't think too much of it, but
kept on watching them. They didn't fly in a conventional
formation that's taught in our army, they seemed to kind of
weave in and out right above the mountaintops, and I would say
that they even went down into the canyons in several instances,
oh, probably a hundred feet, but I could see them against the
snow, of course, on Mt. Rainier and against the snow on Mt.
Adams as they were flashing, and against a high ridge that
happens to lay in between Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams.  But when I
observed the tail end of the last one passing Mt. Adams, and I
was at an angle near Mt. Rainier from it, but I looked at my
watch and it showed one minute and 42 seconds.  Well, I felt
that was pretty fast and I didn't stop to think what the
distance was between the two mountains.  Well, I landed at
Yakima, Washington, and Al Baxter was there to greet me and he
said

...[unintelligible]...

And, he told me, I guess I better change my brand, but he kind
of gave me a mysterious sort of a look that maybe I had seen
something, he didn't know, and well, I just kind of forgot it
then, until I got down to Pendleton and I began looking at my
map and taking measurements on it.  And, the best calculation I
could figure out, now even in spite of error, would be around
1200 miles an hour, because making the distance from Mt. Rainier
to Mt. Adams, in, we'll say approximately two minutes, it's
almost, well, it'd be around 25 miles per minute. Now allowing
for air, we can give them three minutes or four minutes to make
it, and they're still going more than 800 miles an hour, and to
my knowledge, there isn't anything that I've read about, outside
of some  of the German rockets, that would go that fast.  These
were flying in more or less a level, constant altitude.  They
weren't going up and they weren't going down. They were just
simply flying straight and level and I, I laughed
...[unintelligible]..., they sure must have had a tailwind. But
it didn't seem to help me much.  But to the best of my
knowledge, and the best of my description, that is what I
actually saw, and, uh, like I told the Associated Press, I'll,
I'd be glad to confirm it with my hands on a Bible because I did
see it, and whether it has anything to do with our army or our
intelligence or whether it has to do with some foreign country,
I don't know. But I did see it and I did clock it and I just
happened to be in a beautiful position to do it and it's just as
much a mystery to me as it is to everyone else who's been
calling me the last 24 hours, wondering what it was.

NEWSCASTER:

Well, Kenneth, thank you very much.  I know that you've
certainly been busy these last 24 hours, 'cause I've spent some
of the time with you myself, and I know that the press
associations, both Associated Press and our press, the United
Press, has been right after you every minute.  The Associated
and the United Press, all over the nation, have been after this
story.  It's been on every newscast, over the air, and in every
newspaper I know of.  The United Press in Portland has made
several telephone calls here at Pendleton to me, and to you this
morning, and from New York I understand, they are after this
story, and that we may have an answer ...[unintelligible]...
because, if it is some new type of army or navy secret missile,
there would probably a story come out on it from the army or
navy asking, saying that it is a new secret plane and that will
be all there is to it, and they will hush up the story, or
perhaps that we will finally get a definite answer to it.

I understand the United Press is checking on it out of New York
now with the Army, and also with the Navy, and we hope to have
some concrete answer before nightfall.  We certainly want to
thank you, Kenneth for coming into our studio.  We feel very
pleased that this news which is making nationwide news across
the country, we are able to give our listeners over KWRC a
first-hand report direct from you, of what you saw.  And we urge
our listeners to keep tuned to this station, because anytime
this afternoon or this evening, and we get something on it on
our United Press teletype, which is in direct communications
with new York, Chicago, Portland, in fact, every United Press
bureau across the nation, why, we'll have it on the air.

END.

.......................................................













   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 10

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 21:14:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:37:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


Hello, all Dave, Asgir.

 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:19:17 -0500 (EST)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100
 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:45:31 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >>observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain ridges.


I have a good reason to comment here. An old instructor of mine
flew for the Rankins ,Tex and Richard (Tex was famous in his day
as oh, Michael Jordan only he and his brother produced 10,000+
Pilots in WWll under the Civilian Pilot training program.(As I
recall.)

 >>This year I will just refer to what Arnold told some of the
 >>newspapers - and - mention a report from the prospector F.M.
 >>Johnson, being on the ground up in the Cascades on - apparently
 >>- the same day as Arnold made his sightings. And then, prepare a
 >>comparison between the main observations as reported by the two men.

 ><.......>

 >>11. In addition: Arnold estimated the length of the objects as
 >>approximately equal in angular size to the spacing of engines on
 >>a DC-4 at 15 miles. Assume he was right, with the spacing about
 >>60 ft. Then the objects would be 4/60 x 15 = 1 mile away (from
 >>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m25-006.shtml ).

 >Perhaps you should reread the referenced post by Bruce Maccabee,
 >except this time try to read it more carefully.  Bruce was
 >calculating how far away 4 foot PELICANS would be to have the
 >same angular size as 60 feet appears at 15 miles.  This was NOT
 >a claim that the objects Arnold saw were only 1 mile away.

Having flown 4-engine Douglases for a living ,I agree.

 >In your list of details reported by Arnold, you also left out the very
 >important detail that he estimated the objects to be about 23 miles away
 >because he saw them briefly disappear behind a subpeak of Mt. Rainier.  He
 >also reported them weaving in and out amongst the peaks of the southern
 >Cascades, and fading out in the direction of Mt. Adams, about 30 miles
 >away.

 >>Some of the significant observations made by Johnson (as told to
 >>the Air Force), were as follows:
 ><......>

 >>Other observations by myself - when comparing what they both
 >>have been reporting:

 >>- He didn't report seeing Arnold's plane up in the air, though.

yes and the Call Air A-2 was a noisy little sucker
too... puttt.. puuttt, etc.

 >Not surprising, since Johnson was on Mt. Adams and Arnold was over by Mt.
 >Rainier, over 30 miles away.

 >>- It is not quite certain whether the man Arnold's mentioning in
 >>the newspaper is Mr. Johnson; Johnson, though, reported that he
 >>remained up in the mountains for "several days" after the
 >>sighting...

A true Mountain Man...I love it.


 >The man mentioned may have been veteran pilot Richard Rankin,
 >who reported

See the URL at the end of my reply.

 >seeing 10 objects flying in formation over California the day before
Arnold. Rankin and Arnold, I believe, did meet later and compare notes.

 >>- There were _some deviations_ in the altitude estimations,
 >>maybe due to that Arnold saw the objects for twice as long time
 >>as Johnson

 >Arnold probably got the altitude wrong.  He reported the objects
 >appearing on his visual horizon and skimming the tops of the
 >Cascades, which would have

Paralax error probably, hard to tell.....

 >placed their altitude at closer to 5000 to 6000 feet instead of 9000 to
 >10000.   Johnson placed himself at 5000 feet altitude with the objects
 >appearing to be about 1000 feet higher.
 >That would resolve the altitude difference.

 >>- Arnold didn't see any "big hand of a clock" in the tail (but,
 >>this _might_ be the "different" craft); in any case, a very
 >>special observation from Johnson...but that was because he had a
 >>telescope, only some 1,000 feet away - below the craft

 >Right, from 25 miles and without a telescope, Arnold wouldn't be
 >able to make out such details.

 >>- Arnold didn't register any compass disturbances from _his
 >>distance_ up in the air, approx. _1 mile_ away, at approx. the
 >>same altitude as the discs.

 >No, no, no!!!  James Easton's 4-foot "pelicans" would calculate
 >to about 1 mile away, not the objects Arnold reported.  Arnold
 >placed them at about 25 miles when first seen.  Got it?

I for one, got it.

 >>- There were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground

<snip>

There ways of getting around sonic boom-flat bottoms for one .

 >>Conclusion:

 >>We should _really_ assume that both of them were credible
 >>persons and observers, and that they both told the truth to the
 >>Air Force in their reports. (Or, what interests did they have in
 >>not telling the truth? Were they both specifically looking for
 >>very much attention?)

 >Yet below, you ask, "Which one of these two guys had the best
 >imagination/fantasy?"  So do you find the stories credible or not?

Don't forget Rankin, a least he's as good as either Arnold or
Johnson.

 >>Should we pay some specific attention to the compass
 >>disturbances - that there were _none_ (reported by Arnold) up in
 >>the air, 1 mile (1,600 m) away from the objects, but still there
 >>were disturbances on the ground, some 1,000 feet (300 m)
 >>below....?

 >Arnold reported them being something like100 times further away
 >than Johnson.

 >(Your 1 mile is a strawman.) Any magnetic field generated by these
 >objects would be reduced a least a million-fold more at that greater
 >distance.

 >Under those circumstances, Kenneth Arnold not reporting compass
disturbances
 >is hardly surprising, is it?

<snip>

 >>But, the most interesting Johnson observation was the "big hand
 >>of a clock" in the tail of (at least one) of the objects - and
 >>the associated magnetic disturbances.

 >Yes, definitely very interesting.  Assuming Johnson did observe
 >the objects from as close as 1000 feet (this actually isn't
 >clear from the reports) the object would have to have to be
 >generating a very large magnetic field on the order of 10 to
 >100 Tesla.  Magnetic resonance imagers, by comparison, use
 >fields on the order of 2 or 3 Tesla.

 >>Further, there were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground
 >>- thus the object speeds couldn't possibly be higher than the
 >>speed of sound (700 mph).

 > >Yes possibly. There are theoretical ways to eliminate sonic boom.

As I said, flat bottoms of the air foil.changes the angle of the
shock wave, also a way of delaying the shock wave fomation such
as modifying the acutal slipstream or realtive wind, or simply
put , Shields Up!  you modify space  ahead of your craft,Dam'
The Dilithium Crystals ! full speed ahead ...That sort of thing.

 >>Which one of these two guys had the best imagination/fantasy?

 >When you say this, you are implying that they were lying.  Yet
 >elsewhere, you claim you find the stories credible, which is
 >confusing.  Since English isn't your first language, perhaps you
 >don't understand that you are contradicting yourself.

 >>Well, the List members should judge for themselves which one of
 >>these men who are the most credible.

 >>When ruling out any conspiracy theory, both of them - highly
 >>likely - _did_ observe some strange craft on - apparently - the
 >>_same_ day.

 >Johnson's story picked up where Arnold's left off.  Arnold lost
 >sight of the objects in the distance as they approached Mt.
 >Adams.  Johnson saw them closeby while he was on Mt. Adams.

 >Are you now saying you don't like the pelican theory?

 >David Rudiak


Also Rankin's which observation though different than Arnold's
or Johnson's should be looked at as a possible correlation.
Granted that Rankin thought they might be XF5U "flapjack" type
aircraft, the well -advertised (it even appeared in texbooks of
the period) "Flapjack" was a  non- flown one off as stated by
myself earlier on this forum. see Rankin's story at the
following : www.paranormalnews/archives/1947/19471.html

GT McCoy

Also, I'd like to state that we have come a long way in the last
50 years or so. we now glorify over paid atheletes, as spoiled
children, and 50, 60,70 years ago we honored Pioneers; Roscoe
Turner for one,  John "Tex" Rankin  for another.  and we can't
remember their names. Hey, you know Amelia Erhart, what about
Jackie Cohcrane? who truly could compete  with men mano a' mano-
no apologies. In the 1930's the Air pioneers were the
heroes/heroines, and risked their lives.... Looke'm up -along
with Brown and Alcock.....







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 10

                    Re: I'm back - Are The Pelicans Gone?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:33:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:44:05 -0500
Subject: Re: I'm back - Are The Pelicans Gone?


 >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 03:04:39 +0100
 >From: clearlight@t-online.de (Josh Goldstein)
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: I'm back - Are The Pelicans Gone?


 >Dear Fellow wackos on this list,

 >At the beginning of September I went through the tough task of
 >beating my addiction to UFO UpDates as we were getting ready to
 >go on a European music tour and I could not find the time to
 >keep up. All is going well and I am now living in Berlin. So I
 >am back to torment this list. I would like to make contact with
 >serious UFO researchers in this area who speak some English. Any
 >suggestions?

 >One of the first posts I have read since I rejoined this
 >addiction had continued the thread of the Arnold sighting, a
 >well worn thread of 1999. Personally, I think Mr. Arnold, Mr.
 >Johnson, and the Californian saw what they reported. But I
 >wonder what kind of telescope Mr. Johnson was using to observe
 >nearby daylight objects that were fast moving. I hope he did not
 >see "rods".

Dear Josh, welcome back.

Bist du ein Berliner?

Anyway, your and Wendy's Black/White Pelican speculation has
caused me to think of a more realistic explanation:  Arnold saw
early development UAV's (unmanned/unwomanned aerial vehicles)
which were disguised to _look_ like pelicans!

This explains how they were able to outrun Arnold' plane (recall
he turned so that he was flying in substantially the same
direction but they got away from him anyway).

I have since learned that pelican shaped UAV's 4 ft long and 10
foot wingspan, must fly at over 100 mph in order to maintain
enough lift to support the beak-full of mechanical fish.

Anyway, I now accept this UAV/pelican solution. Probably the
extreme shininess of polished metal pelican feathers explains
Arnold's ability to detect them by sun reflections at distances
of several miles (he though 20 miles or so, but obviously wrong
because even mechanical pelicans aren't 80-100 in size... that's
ridiculous!)

And thanks for letting us know that the primarily repository for
these pelicans is at UFO UpDates headquarters (EBK). What a
clever ploy/disinformation scheme.  This way the MIBs, etc.,  in
charge of UAV/pelicans can keep track of the most rational
thinking on this subject and thus know how best to "duck and
weave" if we ever get too close to the correct answer.

So, you better start to shake in your boots EBK and MIB...
we're closing in on _you_!!!!

B. "The UAV/Pelicanist" Maccabee









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                Re: Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917 - Book

From: Colm A Kelleher <nids@anv.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:17:11 -0007
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:35:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917 - Book


 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:27:02 +0000
 >From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt>
 >Subject: Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917 - Book
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Fatima UFO-like Apparitions, 1917

 >In 1917, from May 13 to October 13 ocurred at a rural spot of
 >Portugal, Cova da Iria, near the village of FATIMA, a serie of
 >paranormal/religious events which turned to be spread and
 >accepted around the catholic world as "apparitions of the Virgin
 >Mary".

 >Among ufologists on the other hand, there are many who feel that the
 >events at FATIMA, in 1917, may have a close and familiar ufological
 >perspective. Jacques Valle or Paul Misraki, were some of the
 >researchers who suspected of that kind of related modern "unidentified
 >aerial phenomena".

 >Joaquim Fernandes and Fina d'Armada, two Portuguese historians,
 >challenged themselves to prove these claims, and after six years of
 >intensive effort they succeded in assembling an impressive body of
 >documentation and testimonial evidence that suggests new hypothesis to
 >explain the so-called "Virgin Mary apparitions".

<snip>

I have sent your email to Jacques Vallee and other notable UFO
researchers for comment.

Sincerely,

Colm A Kelleher PhD

National Institute for Discovery Science








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:15:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:25:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 19:19:27 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >The stories which Meier claims regarding the Pleiades is that
 >they did not evolve the life which he claims lives there. That
 >life came to that star system, and established their own
 >civilization there, in an attempt to escape from a War in their
 >own Civilizations System.

With a cluster age of only $10m years, they'd probably have to
BUILD the most of the planet themselves.  Planetary formation
does take time.

 >If this were to turn out to be true,

Huge, HUGE "if".....

 >then the age of those stars
 >would not be nearly as important as if they had evolved there.

But it still takes time to make a planet from a dust cloud,
especially one around an energetic blue star.

 >Terra forming a planet in that system may well have been a
 >possibility.

 >Also remember, the Pleiadeans claim to have established their
 >civilization "one-half second" out of phase with our time line.
 >In other words, "between the seconds."

 >If this were so, then we would not find any evidence of their
 >existence there if we could actually view their system.

More "ifs."  I'm reminded of an old rhyme a relative used to
tease me with when I was a child:

If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, We'd all have a merry
Christmas.

 >REgards, Mike

Toodles,

Brian








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                         Jan. 20 Total Lunar Eclipse

From: Takeshi Okimura [mailto:tokimura@seti.org]
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:47:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:47:30 -0500
Subject: Jan. 20 Total Lunar Eclipse


Dear TeamSETI member:

Board Member Andrew Fraknoi thought it might be fun to share the
following lunar eclipse information (compiled for the media)
with all of you:

=========================================

January 20, 2000
Total Eclipse of the Moon

An Information Sheet by
Andrew Fraknoi (Foothill College)

1. What Is Happening?

On January 20, there will be a total eclipse of the Moon.  In
such an eclipse, the Moon and the Sun are opposite each other in
our skies, and the Earth gets between them.  This means that the
Earth's shadow will fall on the Moon, darkening it about 3 �
hours.

2. When Will the Eclipse Happen?

On Thursday evening, the full Moon begins to enter the Earth's
dark shadow at 7:01 pm PST.  The total eclipse begins at 8:05 pm
and ends at 9:22 pm PST.  The last of our dark shadow moves off
the Moon at about 10:25 pm. (For the east coast, add 3 hours to
the times.)

3. What is Visible During a Lunar Eclipse

As the shadow of the Earth covers the Moon, note that our
natural satellite doesn't become completely dark. Light bent
through the Earth's atmosphere still reaches the shadowed Moon
and gives it a dull brown or reddish glow. The exact color of
the glow and its darkness depend on the "sooty-ness" of our
atmosphere -- how recently volcanoes have gone off and how much
cloud cover, storm activity, and human pollution there is around
the globe.

4. Is it Safe to Watch, and How do I Watch?

Since the Moon is always safe to look at, and the eclipse only
makes the Moon darker, there is no danger in watching this
eclipse with your eyes or through a telescope.  (The dangerous
eclipse is the solar one, where it is the Sun that gets
covered.)  Lunar eclipses are nice to look at without equipment,
and fun to see through binoculars and telescopes.

This is one astronomical phenomenon that (provided the sky is
clear) doesn't really require you to go to a dark location to
see it (although subtle changes in color are best seen from dark
locations.)  If you go to a location away from city lights, be
sure to dress warm, and take a thermos of hot chocolate and
someone with whom you like to stand in the dark!

5. What Can I Tell My Kids (or Kid Brother or Sister)?

Be sure to suggest that they take a careful look at the shadow
of the Earth as it moves across the bright face of the Moon.
What shape is it?  The round shape of the Earth's shadow
suggested to the ancient Greeks, more than 2000 years ago, that
the Earth's shape must be round too.  Eclipse after eclipse,
they saw that the Earth cast a round shadow, and deduced that we
lived on a round planet -- long before there were spacecraft and
astronaut pictures showing the Earth's blue globe from orbit.


With best regards,

Andy Fraknoi
Chair, Astronomy Program, Foothill College








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                Photo of 'Star Camouflage' UFO Also Drawings

From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:26:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:59:30 -0500
Subject: Photo of 'Star Camouflage' UFO Also Drawings

A very intriguing polaroid photograph of the January 5 UFO
reported by police officers in Clair County, Missouri can be
seen at the following URL location:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/missouri99.html


--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:11:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:39:15 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:15:44 -0500
 >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >But it still takes time to make a planet from a dust cloud,
 >especially one around an energetic blue star.

 >>Terra forming a planet in that system may well have been a
 >>possibility.

 >>Also remember, the Pleiadeans claim to have established their
 >>civilization "one-half second" out of phase with our time line.
 >>In other words, "between the seconds."

 >>If this were so, then we would not find any evidence of their
 >>existence there if we could actually view their system.

 >More "ifs."  I'm reminded of an old rhyme a relative used to
 >tease me with when I was a child:

 >If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, We'd all have a merry
 >Christmas.


Well, Brian, "IF" you wish to apply this same 'iffy' approach to
ufology as a whole, then we can just shut down all of the email
lists and chat rooms.

Why waste our time, because we definitely cannot eliminate 'if'
from the scenerio.

<G>

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:01:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:01:31 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 10:31:36 -0500
 >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@ix.netcom.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:15:14 +0000
 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Now when you put this on the list my impression was that you had
 >>spent some time researching about the Pleiades system? Now that
 >>I have asked you to produce YOUR OWN RESEARCH into the Pleiades,
 >>you keep referring me to a URL which shows me a well taken
 >>picture of the Pleiades? How has your research proven to you
 >>that the Pleiades is too young to support anything like life
 >>yet, could you please publish your findings on the list as I am
 >>sure others will be interested to read it, failing that please
 >>point me to a web site where I can read your research?

 >Hi, Roy!

 >While Bill may not have personally performed observations and
 >calculations concerning the Pleiades, his statements represent
 >the scientific consensus on the age and state of that star
 >cluster.

<snip>

Hi Mark.

Yes, the Pleiades are considered to be much younger stars than
our Sun but they may not be too young to support life not
indigenous to the Pleiades.  We must remember that in all
likelyhood we will someday soon inhabit the Earth's oceans,
settle on terraformed Mars and eventually immigrate to planets
orbiting distant stars so we cannot rule out that some other
civilizations have not already beat us to the Pleiades and
colonized this piece of real estate in a neighbouring part of
our galaxy.

One of several unusual items I have received which I hope to get
tests done on are hair samples from a very human looking
Pleiadian, or so I am told.  Since the Pleiades are such a
beautiful sight now that they are so prominent in the early
evening January skies for observers in North America, Europe and
Asia, is it surprising that there is so much folklore, poetry and
prose associated with them as opposed to a older but much less
prominent star cluster nearby, the Hyades, which is about three
times closer to us and, as some could argue, a much better
candidate as the home of our alien neighbours?

Nick Balaskas










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              Re: Photo of 'Star Camouflage' UFO Also Drawings

From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:40:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 21:55:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Photo of 'Star Camouflage' UFO Also Drawings


 >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:26:31 -0500
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET>
 >Subject: Photo of 'Star Camouflage' UFO Also Drawings
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >A very intriguing polaroid photograph of the January 5
 >UFO reported by police officers in Clair County, Missouri
 >can be seen at the following URL location:

 >http://home.fuse.net/ufo/missouri99.html


Kenny,

Why the two different sketches by officer Stevens?

Just a thought - although flight testing of NASA's 'Centurion'
flying wing at night and in that location doesn't seem likely,
it is a large, slow moving, aerial object which could resemble
Stevens' 'large wing' drawing - see:

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Projects/erast/Projects/Centurion/centurion2.html


Presumably that's coincidental, however, is Stevens' claiming
the object might have looked like that second sketch?


James Easton.
E-Mail: voyager@ukonline.co.uk










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                Factual Issue Regarding 'Star Camouflage' UFO

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:09:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:55:06 -0500
Subject: Factual Issue Regarding 'Star Camouflage' UFO


EBK and list:

I earlier sent a message which likely contains a factual error.
The state of the 4:00 a.m. January 5 "star camouflage" UFO seen
by the police officers was likely Illinois, not Missouri as
first reported.

The cities or towns involved in Clair County are Lebanon and
Shiloh. Having lost my maps and being too lazy to look up the
correct location on the internet, I am not 100% certain of this.
But after again listening to Peter Davenport's appearance with
these gentlemen on the Art Bell show, they all announced that
they were from Illinois.

So the initial message, which stated Missouri [as per the St.
Louis newspaper article] may not be accurate. I will modify the
website to correct this. If anyone could assist, please let me
know.

Thanks,
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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              Re: Factual Issue Regarding 'Star Camouflage' UFO

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:00:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:00:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Factual Issue Regarding 'Star Camouflage' UFO


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 00:09:08 -0500
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Factual Issue Regarding 'Star Camouflage' UFO
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >EBK and list:

 >I earlier sent a message which likely contains a factual error.
 >The state of the 4:00 a.m. January 5 "star camouflage" UFO seen
 >by the police officers was likely Illinois, not Missouri as
 >first reported.


Kenny,

This may make it a little more 'official'

ebk

------

Source: Chicago-Sun Times

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/ufo10.html

Downstate cops say they saw UFO


January 10, 2000

by Valerie Schremp
Scripps Howard News Service

In the last few days, Millstadt, Ill., police officer Craig
Stevens has slept little, taken countless phone messages from
national experts and heard all of the little green men jokes his
fellow officers can muster.

It's amusing--to a point, he said. "It's not like I'm the only
one who saw it and I'm Joe Blow from the local bar who just
stepped out drunk, you know?"

Stevens and at least three other officers from Downstate
Lebanon, Shiloh and Dupo police departments said they saw
something in the sky early Wednesday--something that looked like
a UFO.

Shaped like an arrowhead, sprinkled with dimmer lights all over
its surface and three brighter lights on its tail, the thing
made its northeast-to-southwest flight across the area about 4
a.m..

The first report came in to Downstate Highland police from the
owner of a miniature golf course. He was driving into Lebanon,
so the police contacted Lebanon authorities. The officer there
guffawed at the dispatcher. But he spotted the thing heading
toward Shiloh, and he sped through traffic lights to try to
catch up with it. It reached Shiloh, where an officer there
spotted it.

Stevens, sitting in his patrol car in Millstadt on his overnight
shift, heard the radio chatter and drove to the north end of
town. He scanned the sky but saw only airplane lights. Then he
looked west.

"Wow," he thought, jumping out of the car. "This thing's huge!"

He said it moved slowly, like a blimp, about 1,000 feet off the
ground. It was about two stories high and about three times as
long. In addition to the three lights in the back, dimmer lights
sprinkled the entire surface.

He grabbed his Polaroid camera and snapped a shot. The object
headed toward Dupo, and Stevens radioed dispatch. The dispatcher
radioed back, reporting an officer there spotted it, too.

The Polaroid didn't develop well in the cold, and the image only
shows the three bright
lights.

---


ebk







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                 Cydonian Imperative: Making ETI Fashionable

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 01:59:41 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:09:23 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Making ETI Fashionable


Making Extraterrestrial Intelligence Fashionable

by Mac Tonnies

Attempts to openly address the glaring inadequacy of the media's
treatment of Cydonia have, for the most part, fallen on deaf
ears.  This situation is not improved by the sudden
disappearance of Dr. Stanley McDaniel's website, which was one
of perhaps three or four to address the controversy reasonably.

I argue that what is needed to bring Cydonia to the fore is a
truly _subversive_ campaign.  We must make Cydonia fashionable.
Right now, Cydonia belongs to the "kooks."  They're the ones
wearing the T-shirts, poring over "extreme closeups" of Cydonian
terrain.

Unfortunately, they're also not getting us anywhere in terms of
new pictures.  Cydonia must be "mainstreamed," made
palatable--if just barely--to the average reader of popular
science articles.  The bogus conclusion that "Cydonia is dead"
must be quietly dispelled if new pictures are to be taken.  It
was public interest--and from the "kook" sector at that!--that
was largely responsible for the three Cydonia overpasses in
1998.

[It may come as something of a surprise to some that an
additional image (a close-up of the "City Pyramid," an evident
attempt to verify claims of water ice in the region) was taken
in 1999.  This image was not given any significant hype, and
Malin Space Science Systems' rationale for renewing interest in
the region was never disclosed.  Disappointingly, two chances to
rephotograph the Face at ideal lighting conditions were passed
up in late 1999.  Malin's failure to take advantage of these
opportunities was never discussed on the organization's
website.]

How, then, to make Cydonia digestible?  The following are but a
few easily implemented ideas:

1.) Education.  Teachers aware of Cydonia research, pro and con,
could very easily incorporate the Cydonian controversy into
their space/science curriculum.  I, for one, can think of no
better way to challenge critical thought than a thoughtful and
balanced overview of the Face and its attendant mysteries.

Such a unit could very easily be grafted into a unit about, say,
Mars or the Solar System, or even into some sort of
exobiological art project.  The goal, obviously, is not to pound
the notion of Martian intelligence into impressionable minds,
but to raise the possibility so that it can pursued at the
student's intellectual leisure.

A program very much like the one proposed was actually carried
out on the high school level, as documented in SPSR's _The Case
for the Face_.  It resulted in the discovery of an additional
anomaly: the now well-known "NK Pyramid."  Students, it seems,
have much more to offer us in the way of science than the
hopeless bureaucracy of NASA and MSSS.

2.) Informal "poster sessions."  Drop by a Kinko's franchise and
run off a few posters of your favorite Martian real estate.
Bring them to work, school, parties and hang them over
watercoolers and on chalkboards as conversation pieces.  Corny?
Very!  But appropriately subversive, and just silly enough you
won't be labled a "kook."  Not immediately, at least.

3.) Get your local library/s to carry the seminal books on the
subject: _The Case for the Face: Scientists Examine the Evidence
for Alien Artifacts on Mars_, _The McDaniel Report_, _The
Martian Enigmas: A Closer Look_ and _The Face on Mars: Evidence
of a Lost Civilization?_

Ideas are living things!  Never underestimate the power of a
well-vectored virus.

Again, I stress the importance of not defecting to the "kooks,"
who currently have control of Cydonia.  Bringing Cydonia to
sufficient public consciousness cannot be accomplished by
pamphleteering (How many of you have changed churches because
you found special meaning in a certain issue of "The
Watchtower"?)

But at the same time, we're sitting on an issue of huge
emotional importance.  Properly applied, we just might be able
to raise this issue out of the gutter in time for the Mars
Global Surveyor to help us out.  The Face is a convenient
package for what may very well be "a signed, sealed, delivered
paradigm shift," to paraphrase anthropologist Richard
Grossinger.

Look at the vast amounts of money made by films predicated on
the idea of nonhuman intelligence, and the corresponding
emotional resonance this idea has in our culture.  Using actual
science to uncover a possible truth even more bizarre than that
offered by science fiction will take an abundance of popular
enthusiasm; now that NASA has removed Cydonia from the
scientific arena, our best medium is pop culture.

We must confront pop culture on its own terms without
sacrificing objective integrity.  No one said it would be easy.

####

(((Reader submission)))

Jim Miller offers the following:

I enjoyed your recent post to the Mars board and would mention
that I wrote to Dr. Michael Guillen of ABC with a challenge that
he investigate the poor images Malin gives the public. I also
posted earlier to the board about the story Dr Guillen did on
the exact same topic of imaging the MPL with the MGS last week.

I would suggest that you also write to Guillen, access to him is
through GMA at ABC just go to their homepage. I would also ask
that you include the same article about the imaging process as
you did at the board. I think it would really help to get
someone like him on the case.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a mailing list devoted to the immediate implementation of
manned Mars missions and the democratization of space
science, emphasizing the strange formations found in the
Cydonia Mensae region.  This list is not affiliated with any
particular Mars advocacy group, and is intended to be as
informal as possible.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

Useful websites:

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://shuttlenasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_










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                               Steve Johnson?

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:54:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:14:03 -0500
Subject: Steve Johnson?


Dear colleagues,

Does anyone happen to have a snail mail or e-mail address for US
special effects artist Steve Johnson?


If you do could you please reply direct to me at:

pmquest@dial.pioex.com

Many thanks,

Philip.








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:06:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:39:09 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:09:22 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:08:33 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Dear Colleagues,

 >>I wonder can you be  of assistance. I am researching a new
 >>book on the alien autopsy film and I am looking for
 >>professional commentary from surgeons, pathologists, film
 >>experts, special effects experts, etc, etc. If you have any
 >>such material I would greatly appreciate it if you could share
 >>it with me.

 >>I am also looking for 'positional statements' from ufologists,
 >>what they believe is the nature and origin of the film and how
 >>have they reached such a conclusion.

 >>If you can help with any of the above please contact me direct
 >>at: pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >At the risk of being called an "arsehole" yet again, I will ask:
 >Just what kind of research is Philip doing? Seems to me that
 >everyone else is doing the research.


Dear All,

We have some new leads on the film which we are trying
desperately to follow up. I can say no more on this as they
might lead to yet more dead ends as other such leads have done.

Others are not doing the research, this aspect is called
'co-operation'. Look it up in the dictionary you might find this
word rather enlightening.

Our new book will be a balanced look at the alien autopsy film
some of which you will have heard before some of which you will
not. For example, the complete story of how myself and Tim
Matthews exposed the tent footage as a hoax will be told in full
for the first time.

Any researcher cannot expect to have all the information on any
particular topics, that is why I was requesting the co-operation
of others involved in this field.

Many have been most co-operative and I would like to thank them
all, while others are only interested in rhetoric.

If the cap fits, wear it.

Philip.









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:07:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:51:17 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 01:26:49 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Sam Sherman <FLEXARET2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:08:33 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Dear Colleagues,

 >>I wonder can you be  of assistance. I am researching a new
 >>book on the alien autopsy film and I am looking for
 >>professional commentary from surgeons, pathologists, film
 >>experts, special effects experts, etc, etc. If you have any
 >>such material I would greatly appreciate it if you could share
 >>it with me.

 ><snip>

 >I am not current on my AA history. Was Philip Mantle working
 >with Ray Santilli on the AA project at one time?

 >Has that relationship soured and just what now is their
 >relationship?

 >I believe there is adequate proof that the AA is a most
 >profitable fraud.

 >Just who is this new AA research/info going to help?

 >I was resonsible, as a longtime film technical archivist, for
 >bringing up the information about the "film edge codes", which
 >information I believe was perverted to help "verify" the AA not
 >give a truthful evaluation.

 >I will not bring up further such technical tests of old film
 >unless Ray Santilli presents authentic pieces of the "original"
 >film segments for forensic evaluation. If proper tests prove the
 >film authentic, I will figuratively "eat my hat" and apologize
 >to Ray Santilli publicly for calling this film an outright
 >fraud.

 >Failure to have pieces of this film available, along with the
 >original film cans and labels for evaluation by accredited "16MM
 >experienced" archivists, will leave me with my original
 >opinions.


Dear Sam,

If Ray Santilli provides you or anyone else with the film and
box labels you'll not be able to eat your hat as I'll have
already eaten it for you.

Many thanks,

Philip.









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                      NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:30:42 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:31:10 -0500
Subject: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

Source: The NY Times

http://nytimes.com/library/world/asia/011100china-ufos.html

Page One And More

January 11, 2000


BEIJING JOURNAL

U.F.O. Boom Doesn't Worry Officials

By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

BEIJING -- The last few months have been a boom time for U.F.O.
enthusiasts in China.

Just before the start of the year 2000, there were dozens of
sightings. Strange shining objects were observed scooting
through the sky by hundreds of people, from former airport
workers to college deans.

"Warning Wuhan! Warning Dalian! Warning Xian! Jiangsu! Beijing!
Shanghai!" exulted the Jiangsu U.F.O. Research Society's Web
site. "Frequent U.F.O. visits have enveloped all of China."

Buoyed in part by the sightings, the ranks of the research
societies in major Chinese cities devoted to unidentified flying
objects have grown to more than 40,000 members.

More important still, the normally conservative official news
media have been lavishing attention on U.F.O. news, with
documentaries on the main government television station, CCTV-1,
and credulous newspaper articles.

"The level of interest and acceptance is definitely rising,"
said Sun Shili, a retired Foreign Ministry official who is
president of the Beijing U.F.O. Research Society. "Because of
the frequent sightings recently in Beijing, Shanghai and other
cities that have had many witnesses, even the media -- which are
very serious and careful -- have been paying attention."

Of course, in many ways it would seem a most awkward time for
fleets of extraterrestrials to be buzzing China, what with the
government jailing leaders of the Falun Gong spiritual movement
and a few other groups, also associated with the traditional
Chinese practice of qigong exercises, for "superstitious" and
"anti-scientific" behavior.

But so far, at least, the government has decided to tolerate the
U.F.O. craze even if it does not financially support it. Wildly
popular and politically unthreatening, U.F.O. research is the
kind of unorthodox pursuit that is allowed in China today.
Anyway, government officials and citizens alike tend to view
U.F.O. research as science or at least possibly scientific.

And officials of U.F.O. societies are determined to keep it that
way.

"The study of U.F.O.'s is fundamentally different from other
things like Falun Gong and qigong, which have come under
criticism lately," said Jin Fan, an engineer who heads the
Dalian U.F.O. Research Society in northeast China. "This is a
purely scientific field, whereas Falun Gong deals with cults and
superstition."

Indeed, a large portion of China's U.F.O. enthusiasts are
scientists and engineers, not the sci-fi buffs or apocalyptic
stargazers who are the stereotype in the United States. Many of
China's U.F.O. research societies require a college degree and
published research for membership. The Chinese Air Force attends
important U.F.O. meetings.

"If our conditions for membership weren't so strict, we'd have
millions of members by now," said Mr. Sun, a cheerful
intellectual in a gray sweater and striped tie, who seems to
embody the movement -- a bit offbeat, yes, but also scholarly,
serious and strictly establishment.

In his cluttered Beijing study, he proudly displays old
photographs of himself interpreting for Chairman Mao and a more
recent vintage Alien Collection set containing models of a
Nordic alien and of those reportedly found in Roswell, N.M., for
example.

Applauding the Chinese government's "enlightened and practical
attitude," Mr. Sun said: "In the U.S., scholars investigating
this are under pressure and have been derided. But in China the
academic discussion is quite free, so in this area American
academics are quite jealous of us."

The cluster of dozens of sightings in the last four months has
given China's enthusiasts new grist for discussions. Most
episodes involved glowing orange-yellow objects that were
reported to have lingered in the late-afternoon or night sky for
more than 15 minutes before disappearing in an instant.

In a country where camcorders and cameras are now common
household equipment, many were captured on film, and the images
found their way into newspapers and onto television.

Mr. Jin videotaped some suspected U.F.O's over Dalian on Dec.
25. "I believe what I saw was a U.F.O., based on its pattern of
movement, its glow, its shape and its appearance," he said. "It
had substance and dimensionality -- it was clearly an object."

Mr. Jin, an engineer, said the turns and dips made by the
objects, as well as their rapid acceleration, could not have
been the maneuvers of man-made planes or rockets. He added that
he had been researching the subject long enough to distinguish a
true U.F.O. from an "atmospheric phenomenon."

Experts have various theories about the recent rash of U.F.O.
sightings. A recent article in the Journal of U.F.O. Research,
published by the Gansu Science and Technology Press, notes that
sightings in China peak each year around Oct. 1, China's
National Day.

"If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense that visitors
from an extraterrestrial civilization would come now," Mr. Jin
said. "We're entering a new millennium, so any extraterrestrial
civilization that's been observing us would want to document the
state of our civilization at this particular moment, as sort of
a historical snapshot."

He attributed the high frequency of sightings in China to its
population density. And club officials say more than half of
Chinese are interested in U.F.O.'s and believe that they might
exist.

The Beijing U.F.O. Research Society has 280 members, and 30
percent are managers or Communist Party workers. The yearly
research meetings of the national U.F.O. society are covered by
reporters from the major news organizations.

This is an extraordinary reversal in a country where 25 years
ago life was so focused on Communist politics that most people
could not imagine anything so ethereal as an unidentified flying
object, and expressing belief in them might have been a ticket
to jail.

Indeed, Mr. Sun said he did not appreciate his one and only
U.F.O. sighting -- a "bright object in the sky" -- in 1971, when
he was sent to the countryside as a young Communist Party worker
during the Cultural Revolution. "I assumed it must be some sort
of monitoring device, since relations between China and the
Soviet Union were very tense at the time," he said, laughing.
"It was only years later, when I got more access to foreign
materials, that I realized what I'd experienced."

He and others credit China's two decades of liberalization and
market reforms for allowing U.F.O. fever to flourish. "As China
has opened to the outside world in the last 20 years, people's
thinking has also opened," he said.

Some of the current U.F.O. research in China centers on
investigating sightings, but much of it involves trying to
create new forms of propulsion to try to explain how U.F.O.'s
might work.

Mr. Sun describes with great excitement a small balloonlike
device invented by one of his members that moves faster than
other man-made devices. Although it exists now only as a small
model, the society is planning to test it, first on water and
then on land and in space.

The research societies also share information and reports on the
quirkier aspect of U.F.O.'s, like alien abductions. They are
looking into the case of a Beijing worker who said that in
December he was held for two hours on an alien spacecraft, where
he was studied as part of a medical experiment.

But Chinese U.F.O. society officials say they prefer to maintain
a sober exterior, often playing down controversial topics, which
they prefer to discuss in private.

And so the most recent issue of the Journal of U.F.O. Research,
published in November, scoffed at the notions of a millennial
apocalypse -- even as it carried articles on "interstellar
migration" and the notion that the Egyptian pyramids were
instruments for communication with extraterrestrials.

And U.F.O. enthusiasts say they will avoid the troubles that
have befallen qigong.

"We're very careful and cautious to present things
scientifically and to filter out things that head in a
superstitious direction," Mr. Sun said, "since there's a great
deal of fakery in the U.F.O. field as well as real occurrence."








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:41:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:59:27 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:11:44 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:15:44 -0500
 >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>More "ifs."  I'm reminded of an old rhyme a relative used to
 >>tease me with when I was a child:

 >>If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, We'd all have a merry
 >>Christmas.

 >Well, Brian, "IF" you wish to apply this same 'iffy' approach to
 >ufology as a whole, then we can just shut down all of the email
 >lists and chat rooms.

 >Why waste our time, because we definitely cannot eliminate 'if'
 >from the scenerio.


Yep--apologies for being 'crabby,' but I'm just recovering from
the flu. Speculation is clearly an important part of any
analytical endeavor. My problem starts when a scenario (like
life in the Pleides, for example), can be almost certainly
discounted with reference to currently-understood ideas if
planetary formation and evolution.

People can certainly continue with "what if" scenarios--after
all, there is no such thing as a certainty--but I would argue
that such speculation is largely a waste of time, and is
frequently invoked to champion a point of view which is,
considered from the perspective of both logic and scientific
method and knowledge, otherwise untenable.

But when did such considerations ever stop the speculations of a
fertile ufological mind?

:)

Brian








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                             Re: Steve Johnson?

From: Michael Lennick <michael@*****.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:51:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:14:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Steve Johnson?


[This is from an old friend who's been in the FX biz
  for years. I'd passed him a copy of Philip Mantle's
  request, knowing Steve Johnson is a friend of
  Michael's. Responses to Michael can be passed through
  me --ebk]


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:54:50 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >To: updates@globalserve.net
 >Subject: Steve Johnson?

 >Dear colleagues,

 >Does anyone happen to have a snail mail or e-mail address for
 >US special effects artist Steve Johnson?

 >If you do could you please reply direct to me at:

 >pmquest@dial.pioex.com

 >Many thanks,

 >Philip.



Hi Errol;

Re: the above - Steve's not that hard to find.

However, my understanding is that this is in service of that
faux 'alien autopsy' footage that made a few people a lot of
money a few years back.

I wouldn't recommend asking Steve any serious questions about
this one. He does not suffer dorks gladly.

As you probably know, I was planning a debunking of the AA
footage a few years back as part of the 'Aliens In The Movies'
series I did for The Discovery Channel.

I had commentaries from Steve, along with various anatomy
experts, old film stock authorities (including guys from the
Lookout Mountain Film Unit who shot all the Army stuff during
this era and who debunked both the cameras and techniques
displayed), and a few science-fiction authors, all holding their
noses over this stuff.

We only stopped work on it when Discovery came to their senses
and realized they didn't want to further promote this nonsense.

However, had we proceeded, the coup-de-gras would probably have
been my own examination of the footage, which revealed it to
have been mastered at 30 frames per second - not 24.

Spottable by any casual frame-by-frame glance at the footage.

There are no repeated frames.

24 fps film, when transferred to 30 fps video, requires every
5th frame to be repeated.

This suggests either a film mastered at 30fps, or a video master
treated to look like old B&W reversal stock - both of which we
do all the time in current production, but neither of which were
in practice in the pre-VTR days this purports to represent.

I can't believe this crap still has any currency left.

Later;
Michael.









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:50:59 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:18:58 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 18:11:44 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:15:44 -0500
 >>From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>But it still takes time to make a planet from a dust cloud,
 >>especially one around an energetic blue star.

 >>>Terra forming a planet in that system may well have been a
 >>>possibility.

 >>>Also remember, the Pleiadeans claim to have established their
 >>>civilization "one-half second" out of phase with our time line.
 >>>In other words, "between the seconds."

 >>>If this were so, then we would not find any evidence of their
 >>>existence there if we could actually view their system.

 >>More "ifs."  I'm reminded of an old rhyme a relative used to
 >>tease me with when I was a child:

 >>If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, We'd all have a merry
 >>Christmas.

Dear Sirs, Madams, Errols', Listers et al, especially Al...

"If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets." *

 >Well, Brian, "IF" you wish to apply this same 'iffy' approach to
 >ufology as a whole, then we can just shut down all of the email
 >lists and chat rooms.

 >Why waste our time, because we definitely cannot eliminate 'if'
 >from the scenerio.

Well Michael, I am surprised at you.  Apparently you've not been
paying attention to listers, commenters and provocateurs.  The
researchers, contorters and hoe-ers.

Except Al.

And this is a sin which requires the wrath of Kahn, John, Paul
and Ringo.  And even Ming from the planet Mingo. That was a
small poetic license, as it's really Mongo.

When, Doctor Crystal, have you _ever_ heard just one Ex-Spurt
say the word "IF" except to refer with malice to Intruders
Foundation?  Huh?  Especially when referring to his silly
fossify as, finally, revealing the truth about whatever. no
'If's, and's or Butts!'

Oh, we peons say "if."  The dummy dimbulbs who know nuttin and
writ no books, speak no speeches and make no appearances on the
Maladjusted Science Channel in order to create chaos out of the
order produced by a truth, they say "if."  See, it's truth which
them folk do not care to hear.  It doesn't sell.  And everyone
knows that ...

"Capitalism is above the law,
It say, 'It don't count, less it sells' ".

So it's sundown on the Union.

 ><G>
 >
 >REgards, Mike


Gee,

Regards,
J. Jaime (that's Hi-Mee)

*  (Frank Herbert)








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                             Re: NASA Questions

From: Keith Woodard <qwoodard@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:43:06 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:08:29 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Questions


 >Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:45:48 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Questions
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Believe it or not, "The Europa Proposal" was conceived by
 >Richard Hoagland

<snip>

 >Arthur C. Clarke even credits Hoagland for the idea in the
 >afterword to "2010." I, for one, wish NASA and the news media
 >would likewise give him the credit he deserves.

<snip>

It turns out not to be the case that Richard Hoagland originated
scientific speculation about life on Europa. Such conjecture, at
least in rudimentary form, has been traced as far back as 1971.

I might mention as well that I have yet to see documentation for
the contention on Hoagland's website that "At the time,
Hoagland's theory encountered overwhelming opposition from
almost everyone at NASA."

Hoagland's claim to the idea of life on Europa is summarized on
his website at:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/europa.html

It rests on his article, "The Europa Enigma" in the January 1980
issue of the magazine _Star & Sky_ .

Disputing this is Cornell astronomy professor Steven Squyres,
who contends that credit should go to Voyager scientists.
Hoagland has posted Squyres' email to this effect at:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/squyres2.jpg

and

http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/squyres3.jpg

According to Squyres, "Within minutes of the first images
reaching the ground, there was talk among members of the Voyager
imaging team about whether there might be an ocean under the
ice, and this talk led immediately to speculation of such an
ocean's suitability for life. I was there to overhear this talk,
and so was Mr. Hoagland."

Is Squyres' claim credible? How likely is it the prospect of
life would occur to planetary scientists faced with evidence of
liquid water in quantity on an extraterrestrial body?

That Europa images were suggesting the possibility of water to
Voyager team members is confirmed by a JPL press release posted
to Usenet:

http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=237321334

The press release says, in part, "The first close look ever
obtained of Jupiter's satellite, Europa, was taken today, July
9, by Voyager 2 as the spacecraft approached the planet....The
complicated linear features appear even more like cracks or huge
fractures in these images. Also seen are somewhat darker mottled
regions which appear to have a slightly pitted appearance,
perhaps due to small scale craters. No large craters (more than
five kilometers in diameter) are easily identifiable in the
Europa photographs to date, suggesting that this satellite has a
young surface relative to Ganymede and Callisto, although not
perhaps as young as Io's. Various models for Europa's structure
will be tested during analysis of these images, including the
possibility that the surface is a thin ice crust overlying water
or softer ice and that the fracture systems seen are breaks in
that crust."

At:

http://www.math.washington.edu/~greenber/EuropaHistory.html

is a revealing article by University of Washington mathematics
professor Ralph Greenberg on the evolution of scientific thought
concerning oceans -- and life -- on Europa. Greenberg views
Hoagland quite favorably, waxing enthusiastic over "The Europa
Enigma": "Even today it is worthwhile to read this article," he
comments, "because Hoagland's enthusiasm and excitement about
Europa and the possibilities that exist there are quite
contagious."

But Squyres' counterclaim is supported by Greenberg's remark
that, "The possibility that some of the satellites of Jupiter
might have an ocean became rather widely known in the 1970s, at
least enough to be discussed in some books written for general
audiences."

The professor goes on to say, "It seems obvious that the
possibility of a liquid water ocean on some of the Galilean
satellites, and the implication that there would have to be some
source(s) of heat to maintain such an ocean, would inevitably
lead to speculation about the chance that life might develop in
such an environment."

Although Arthur Clarke credits Hoagland with the idea of life on
Europa, Clarke himself observed in 1974 that Europa and Ganymede
had "at least one of the preconditions for life: the presence of
water."

Moreover, Greenberg shows that the possibility of life on
Galilean satellites -- including Europa -- was noted as early as
1971 by Carl Sagan. It was discussed by Robert Shaw in a series
of mid-seventies lectures, by Benton Clark in a June 1979
lecture to an audience that included NASA scientists, in books
by Duncan Lunan and Isaac Asimov published in 1979, and in a
1980 book by Gerald Feinberg and Robert Shapiro.

Hoagland deserves some credit. His well-written article seems to
have been more comprehensive than its predecessors, and
evidently the first to focus exclusively on Europa -- prompted,
as it was, by the second Voyager encounter.

But it's hard to believe the possibilities for life would not
have occurred to Voyager scientists as soon as their images
suggested water. And the fact that Hoagland was apparently
within earshot at the time, "sitting here, listening to these
informed bits of speculation," as he put it, seems significant.

Keith










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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: googong@interact.net.au
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:27:06 +1100
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:23:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:01:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Since the Pleiades are such a
 >beautiful sight now that they are so prominent in the early
 >evening January skies for observers in North America, Europe and
 >Asia, is it surprising that there is so much folklore, poetry and
 >prose associated with them as opposed to a older but much less
 >prominent star cluster nearby, the Hyades, which is about three
 >times closer to us and, as some could argue, a much better
 >candidate as the home of our alien neighbours?

No Nick. At a distance of 150 light years, the Hyades forms the
nearest open star cluster to us. The Hyades open cluster has an
age of about 600 million years, which is probably not sufficient
time in which to independently form life there. The ROSAT
All-Sky Survey of the Hyades has identified over 185 of the 400
or more Hyades cluster stars as X-ray emitters, which is not
going to encourage life to exist there.

I suggest instead another candidate like the open star cluster
M67, which at an age of 4 billion years is more likely to have
had life independently start there. Other candidates are NGC 188
at an age of about 5 billion years and NGC 6791, which is about
7 billion years old and is currently the oldest known open star
cluster in our Milky Way galaxy.

A semi-recent estimate of the globular cluster M92's age has
given a value of about 16 billion years (anyway more than 14
billion years). The age of M13 is about 14 billion years.

Globular cluster M13 was selected in 1974 as a target for one of
the first radio messages addressed to possible extraterrestrial
intelligent races, and sent by the big radio telescope of the
Arecibo Observatory. I'd be curious to know where other messages
have been sent to possible areas of the sky with
extraterrestrial intelligence in them or the areas of the sky
being searched for evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence.



Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa









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                    Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:03:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:27:56 -0500
Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
 >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers
 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:30:42 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >Subject: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

 >Source: The NY Times

 >http://nytimes.com/library/world/asia/011100china-ufos.html

 >Page One And More

 >January 11, 2000

 >BEIJING JOURNAL

 >U.F.O. Boom Doesn't Worry Officials

 >By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL


I just called the NYT to try to talk with Elisabeth Rosenthal.
She is actually in Beijing. But according to the man at the
foreign desk, she can be sent letters via email say 'Please
Forward to Elisabeth Rosenthal at foreign@nytimes.com .'

I think it wouldn't hurt if many people thanked her for playing
it very straight... as opposed to the terrible blind acceptance
of the Mogul Roswell explanation displayed in front page Sunday
coverage a few years back, by William Broad. It will probably
appear in many papers taking the NY Times News Service.

Stan Friedman








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                               Re: ET Combos?

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:26:42 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:30:34 -0500
Subject: Re: ET Combos?


 >Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 15:16:55 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: ET Combos?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi All,

Hi Roy, All

 >I can't but think about the combos of ETs witnessed on craft...

 >In the Travis Walton case, we all heard how he witnessed beings
 >that more or less resembled "greys" and then later "humanoids".

 >If this is the case are we to take it that there is some kind of
 >cross co-operation between ET species regarding abduction
 >phenomena?

 >Or to put it another way, is it common throughout the decades
 >of abduction reports & investigation that different or multiple
 >ETs have been seen on board these craft?

Without bothering to give this matter any real thought. (In
other words, off the top of my head) In the film "Communion"
with Christopher Walken, "Whitley Strieber" describes walking
around in a _UFO_ with three different types of aliens in it. If
you want I'll dig the video out, and see which three are
depicted.

 >Regards,

 >Roy..


--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/









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                                 Bert Alien?

From: David Robbins <davidrobbins@bigplanet.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:53:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:04:25 -0500
Subject: Bert Alien?


I would  bring your attention specifically to the "picture
evidence" portion of the web site listed below and make sure you
click on the Crop Circle Evidence and the Mars Observer picture
file, both!

Given the serious nature of this discovery, I would recommend
forwarding this to Richard Hoagland as well!!

http://fractalcow.com/bert/bert.htm

Bert is Evil










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                    Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:39:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:49:25 -0500
Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!


 >NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:30:42 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:31:10 -0500
 >Subject: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

Previously, Mr. Jin was quoted by the NY Times:

 >"If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense that visitors
 >from an extraterrestrial civilization would come now," Mr. Jin
 >said. "We're entering a new millennium, so any extraterrestrial
 >civilization that's been observing us would want to document the
 >state of our civilization at this particular moment, as sort of
 >a historical snapshot."


This proves that ET's are more advanced than we are. At least
_they_ aren't in doubt as to when the new millennium starts!
(Or did they need to leave a light-year early?) ;)

Roger









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:54:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:03:11 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:41:23 -0500
 >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Why waste our time, because we definitely cannot eliminate 'if'
 >>from the scenerio.

 >Yep--apologies for being 'crabby,' but I'm just recovering from
 >the flu. Speculation is clearly an important part of any
 >analytical endeavor. My problem starts when a scenario (like
 >life in the Pleides, for example), can be almost certainly
 >discounted with reference to currently-understood ideas if
 >planetary formation and evolution.

 >People can certainly continue with "what if" scenarios--after
 >all, there is no such thing as a certainty--but I would argue
 >that such speculation is largely a waste of time, and is
 >frequently invoked to champion a point of view which is,
 >considered from the perspective of both logic and scientific
 >method and knowledge, otherwise untenable.

 >But when did such considerations ever stop the speculations of a
 >fertile ufological mind?

 >:)

 >Brian


Grin... don't worry about it.  I simply wanted to point out that
virtually all of UFOlogy is speculation.

I for one, wishe it could be otherwise.

I have been chasing this "rainbow" for about 46 years, and
frankly, I'm darn frustrated. <G>

Our science has advanced many hypothesis' to explain how life
exists and came into existence.  But until we actually go there
and view the beauty of the majesty of creation, we can never
truly appreciate how much we still have to learn.

All the objections to "alien life" throughout the Cosmos, and
particularly to the idea of it having in some way contributed to
our existence or social tree, is remanesent of the "earth is the
center of the universe" ideology of the first half of the first
millinium.

Can you see how we are still having our ideology influenced by
"the keepers of humanity?"

When will we be allowed to shake off those chains of ignorance
and superstition and stand to face the rest of the Cosmos as
mature, deserving humanity? <g>

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:00:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:47:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:50:59 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Dear Sirs, Madams, Errols', Listers et al, especially Al...

 >"If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets." *

 >>Well, Brian, "IF" you wish to apply this same 'iffy' approach to
 >>ufology as a whole, then we can just shut down all of the email
 >>lists and chat rooms.

 >>Why waste our time, because we definitely cannot eliminate 'if'
 >>from the scenerio.

 >Well Michael, I am surprised at you.  Apparently you've not been
 >paying attention to listers, commenters and provocateurs.  The
 >researchers, contorters and hoe-ers.
<snip>



Hahahahah....I hear you...

Darn, and I just squashed my only chance at Capatilistic gain.
hahahahaha...

Thanks for the prespective.


REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                    Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:38:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:00:06 -0500
Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:03:40 -0400
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I think it wouldn't hurt if many people thanked her for playing
 >it very straight... as opposed to the terrible blind acceptance
 >of the Mogul Roswell explanation displayed in front page Sunday
 >coverage a few years back, by William Broad. It will probably
 >appear in many papers taking the NY Times News Service.

 >Stan Friedman

Agreed. I do think we started out with an advantage here --
Chinese scientists take the subject seriously, so a journalist
interviewing them has to take it seriously, too.

But note the phrase she used for Americans interested in UFOs --
"the sci-fi buffs and apocalyptical stargazers who are the
stereotype in the United States." Maybe she meant to say this is
a stereotype, not reality, but it sounds to me like she's buying
the description.

Greg Sandow









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:53:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:03:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:27:06 +1100
 >From: googong@interact.net.au
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 19:01:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>prominent star cluster nearby, the Hyades, which is about three
 >>times closer to us and, as some could argue, a much better
 >>candidate as the home of our alien neighbours?

 >No Nick. At a distance of 150 light years, the Hyades forms the
 >nearest open star cluster to us. The Hyades open cluster has an
 >age of about 600 million years, which is probably not sufficient
 >time in which to independently form life there. The ROSAT
 >All-Sky Survey of the Hyades has identified over 185 of the 400
 >or more Hyades cluster stars as X-ray emitters, which is not
 >going to encourage life to exist there.

If independent life is not likely to form on planets in the
Hyades star cluster because it is considered too young as you
say, then life would be less likely to have formed on planets in
the Pleiades star cluster which are much younger still.  So we
agree on this.  Of course, this still would not rule out E.T.s
from older parts of our galaxy from colonizing the planets in
the Pleiades and Hyades star clusters.  As for x-ray emitting
stars, the E.T.s would simply colonize those planets around the
stars which are not powerful x-ray emitters.  On Earth our
atmosphere protects us from dangerous x-rays so E.T.s could
still colonize the planets which orbit x-ray emitting stars too,
even if they have no atmosphere, as long as they settle not on
the surface but just a few inches (or more) below it.  Now that
it is winter in Toronto, with our subways and underground
facilities, there are some people can go from their homes to
their schools and jobs without even venturing outside even once.

 >I suggest instead another candidate like the open star cluster
 >M67, which at an age of 4 billion years is more likely to have
 >had life independently start there. Other candidates are NGC 188
 >at an age of about 5 billion years and NGC 6791, which is about
 >7 billion years old and is currently the oldest known open star
 >cluster in our Milky Way galaxy.

I too have also wondered why no alleged aliens have identified
their home to us as M67, NGC 188 or NGC 6791 which I agree would
be much more promising places for life to have formed (even
though I have serious reservations about the accepted theories
on how life originates and evolves) on planets orbiting stars
there as opposed to the younger Pleiades and Hyades star
clusters. Could it be for the same reason that in the earlier
days, aliens allegely came from the Moon, Venus or Mars -
because these were very prominent in our sky?

 >A semi-recent estimate of the globular cluster M92's age has
 >given a value of about 16 billion years (anyway more than 14
 >billion years). The age of M13 is about 14 billion years.

I also have serious reservations about dating in astronomy. How
can stars in M92 have an age of 16 billion years and stars in
M13 have an age of 14 billion years when the latest estimates of
the age of the universe is about 12 billion years or so?  I find
it amusing that astronomers can talk with authority about some
faint newly discovered object at the edge of our universe or a
planet orbiting another star which they detected with their
giant telescopes and advanced electronic instrumentation when at
the same time they are totally ignorant of our own backyard in
space. For example, Earth's two other large Moons have been seen
visually and photographed with simple cameras but I have never
read about them in any astronomy textbook.  If there is one sure
thing about our universe and even our solar system, is that
there are still lots of unexpected surprises out there for us.

 >Globular cluster M13 was selected in 1974 as a target for one of
 >the first radio messages addressed to possible extraterrestrial
 >intelligent races, and sent by the big radio telescope of the
 >Arecibo Observatory. I'd be curious to know where other messages
 >have been sent to possible areas of the sky with
 >extraterrestrial intelligence in them or the areas of the sky
 >being searched for evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence.

An American company, Encounter 2001, has recently purchased time
on the large 70 metre radio telescope in the Ukraine.  For
$49.95 you can send a message of your own to any listening
aliens you feel inhabit planets orbiting stars in your favourite
star cluster.  Since this radio telescope is also equipt for
radar work and a dollar still goes a long way in the Ukraine
(even a Canadian one), I am negotiating with one of the
astronomers there to have them do a radar search for large
asteroids which some astronomers believe must exist just ahead
and behind our Earth in the same orbit.  Remember that science
is for everyone and unlike China (see today's New York Times
newspaper article on UFOs) you still do not require a college
degree and have published research to be a good ufologist.

Nick Balaskas










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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:13:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:31:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:19:17 -0500 (EST)
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:29:45 -0500

 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100
 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:45:31 -0500

 >>Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >>observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain ridges.
 >>This year I will just refer to what Arnold told some of the
 >>newspapers - and - mention a report from the prospector F.M.
 >>Johnson, being on the ground up in the Cascades on - apparently
 >>- the same day as Arnold made his sightings. And then, prepare a
 >>comparison between the main observations as reported by the two men.

<snip>

 >>11. In addition: Arnold estimated the length of the objects as
 >>approximately equal in angular size to the spacing of engines on
 >>a DC-4 at 15 miles. Assume he was right, with the spacing about
 >>60 ft. Then the objects would be 4/60 x 15 = 1 mile away (from
 >>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m25-006.shtml ).

 >Perhaps you should reread the referenced post by Bruce
 >Maccabee, except this time try to read it more carefully.  Bruce
 >was calculating how far away 4 foot PELICANS would be to have
 >the same angular size as 60 feet appears at 15 miles.  This was
 >NOT a claim that the objects Arnold saw were only 1 mileaway. In
 >your list of details reported by Arnold, you also left out the
 >very important detail that he estimated the objects to be about
 >23 miles away because he saw them briefly disappear behind a
 >subpeak of Mt. Rainier.  He also reported them weaving in and
 >out amongst the peaks of the southern Cascades, and fading out
 >in the direction of Mt. Adams, about 30 miles away.


Yes, I admit now that I wrote the mail too fast....

 >>Some of the significant observations made by Johnson
 >>(as told to the Air Force), were as follows:

<snip>

 >>Other observations by myself - when comparing what they both
 >>have been reporting:
 >>- He didn't report seeing Arnold's plane up in the air, though.

 >Not surprising, since Johnson was on Mt. Adams and Arnold was
 >over by Mt. Rainier, over 30 miles away.

Yes, you're probably right here; Johnson likely didn't _hear_
anything from Arnolds noisy plane either - though the weather
was calm an "crystal clear" - according to Arnold.

(However, my own experiences are that it's very easy to hear
noise from planes up in the mountains, even from many miles away
from where you're standing.)

 >>- It is not quite certain whether the man Arnold's mentioning in
 >>the newspaper is Mr. Johnson; Johnson, though, reported that he
 >>remained up in the mountains for "several days" after the>sightings....

 >The man mentioned may have been veteran pilot Richard Rankin,
 >who reported seeing 10 objects flying in formation over
 >California the day before Arnold. Rankin and Arnold, I believe,
 >did meet later and compare notes.

I agree; the Rankin story is here:
http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947c.htm

 >>- There were _some deviations_ in the altitude estimations,
 >>maybe due to that Arnold saw the objects for twice as long time
 >>as Johnson

 >Arnold probably got the altitude wrong.  He reported the
 >objects appearing on his visual horizon and skimming the tops of
 >the Cascades, which would have placed their altitude at closer
 >to 5000 to 6000 feet instead of 9000 to 10000.   Johnson placed
 >himself at 5000 feet altitude with the objects appearing to be
 >about 1000 feet higher. That would resolve the altitude
 >difference.

Fair enough; I don't really think these altitude estimations are
so very much important after all. I think I would rather
concentrate more on other technical observations.

<snip>

 >>- Arnold didn't register any compass disturbances from _his
 >>distance_ up in the air, approx. _1 mile_ away, at approx. the
 >>same altitude as the discs.

 >No, no, no!!!  James Easton's 4-foot "pelicans" would calculate
 >to about 1 mile away, not the objects Arnold reported.  Arnold
 >placed them at about 25 miles when first seen.  Got it?

Yes. Got it! I was really thinking of where the emitting source
was located: _This_ particular object, or, other objects in the
air, close to this one, or, from some source on the ground -
somewhere. But, most likely the source of magnetic disturbance
was _this_ object, or maybe the 5-6 objects all together
(...metallic objects).

 >>- There were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground.
 >>- Arnold reported a clear day; Johnson a ("somewhat") cloudy day
 >>(at least one cloud).

 >"At least one cloud."  Sounds like a pretty clear day to me even
 >from Johnson's position, which was NOT the same as Arnold's.

 >Actually what Johnson reported is that he lost sight of them as
 >they banked in a cloud.  How you jump to the conclusion from
 >this that Johnson was reporting a "somewhat" cloudy day is
 >beyond me.


OK, I do agree that even on "crystal clear" days, the clouds
will form very quickly up in the mountains, above the peaks,
also at locations not much visible from Arnolds positions up in
the air.

 >>- Johnson is likely to have recognized a bird from a plane with
 >>his telescope; he didn't mention the word "bird" at all in his
 >>report(s).

 >Yep, no pelicans.

(see below....)

 >>- Johnson was a generation older than Arnold.

 >Yes, so???

Well, I thought maybe this should add more credence to Johnson's
reporting, and, Arnold's. (Different generations, different
interests, etc. But, I don't know if they came from the same
town, or, were related.)

 >>Conclusion:
 >>We should _really_ assume that both of them were credible
 >>persons and observers, and that they both told the truth to the
 >>Air Force in their reports. (Or, what interests did they have in
 >>not telling the truth? Were they both specifically looking for
 >>very much attention?)

 >Yet below, you ask, "Which one of these two guys had the best
 >imagination/fantasy?"  So do you find the stories credible or not?

When comparing the reports available for us on the Internet:
Yes, I find the stories credible!

 >>Should we pay some specific attention to the compass
 >>disturbances - that there were _none_ (reported by Arnold) up in
 >>the air, 1 mile (1,600 m) away from the objects, but still there
 >>were disturbances on the ground, some 1,000 feet (300 m)
 >>below....?

 >Arnold reported them being something like100 times further away
 >than Johnson.

 >(Your 1 mile is a strawman.) Any magnetic field generated by these
 >objects would be reduced a least a million-fold more at that greater
 >distance.

 >Under those circumstances, Kenneth Arnold not reporting compass
 >disturbances is hardly surprising, is it?

OK, I agree; see also below.

 >>This _could_ possibly assume some pulse radar control - given
 >>_no pelicans_...... (The pulse radar beams _should_ - in my
 >>opinion -  really reach almost everywhere around the
 >>objects..... but I'm not an expert on this.)

 >Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here.

Well, I was really thinking of where the emitting source(s) was
(were) located: Was it emitting from this particular object, or,
other objects in the air, close to this one, or, from some
powerful source on the ground - somewhere in the Cascades area.

But, most likely the source of magnetic disturbance was _this_
object, or, maybe the 5-6 objects all together.

<snip>

 >>Which one of these two guys had the best imagination/fantasy?

 >When you say this, you are implying that they were lying.  Yet
 >elsewhere, you claim you find the stories credible, which is
 >confusing.  Since English isn't your first language, perhaps you
 >don't understand that you are contradicting yourself.

Well, I wrote the mail more or less in a hurry, so I guess my
"philosophing" and conclusion weren't clear enough. (And, you're
right about my language: My first language is Norwegian.)

 >>Well, the List members should judge for themselves which one of
 >>these men who are the most credible.
 >>When ruling out any conspiracy theory, both of them - highly
 >>likely - _did_ observe some strange craft on - apparently - the
 >>_same_ day.

 >Johnson's story picked up where Arnold's left off.  Arnold lost
 >sight of the objects in the distance as they approached Mt.
 >Adams.  Johnson saw them closeby while he was on Mt. Adams.

Yes, I agree on this.

 >Are you now saying you don't like the pelican theory?

 >David Rudiak

As I mentioned above, when comparing the available reports -
yes, I find Arnold's and Johnson's (and Rankin's) reports
credible.

And therefore, I think it's time to _forget everything_ about
the pelican theory now: The objects were _most likely_ to be
mechanical aircraft, of some unknown origin.

Thus: No birds; no eagles, no seagulls, no geese - no pelicans.

So, I will "simply and quietly" return to some of my earlier
suggestions (see previous mails on the List), and will suggest
that they were likely to be (when thinking any engine noise from
the aircraft is "almost designed away", or difficult to hear
anyway):

- Guided (remotely controlled/operated/piloted) missiles, used
   for some military testing/training purposes, or,

- Target practice planes; drones, or,

- Radar testing/training devices, i.e., light-weight, Al foil
   "kites", ca. 30 feet in diameter, being dragged behind planes;
   maybe used in connection with radar scope "jamming" exercises?
   (And could the Roswell debris from General Rameys office be
   something similar? Just thinking.)

(Note: I've been a radar operator myself, while serving my time
in the Air Force. I know that Al foils/pieces were dropped from
planes to "jam"/disturb the radar scopes. )

These are the best explanations I can think of today......

(I think it's "very unlikely" that they are som kind of E.T.
objects - real UFOs; due to the fact that the observed aircraft
technology was similar to the state-of-the-art tech. in those
days; it is "very unlikely" that any E.T. tech., created in
other worlds in the universe should be so close to "our"
aircraft tech. in those days. Sorry....)

Best regards,
Asgeir








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                    Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:23:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:00:06 -0500
Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:03:40 -0400
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
 >>To: UFO UpDates Subscribers
 >>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:30:42 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>Subject: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

 >>Source: The NY Times

 >>http://nytimes.com/library/world/asia/011100china-ufos.html

 >>Page One And More

 >>January 11, 2000

 >>BEIJING JOURNAL

 >>U.F.O. Boom Doesn't Worry Officials

 >>By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

 >I just called the NYT to try to talk with Elisabeth Rosenthal.
 >She is actually in Beijing. But according to the man at the
 >foreign desk, she can be sent letters via email say 'Please
 >Forward to Elisabeth Rosenthal at foreign@nytimes.com .'

 >I think it wouldn't hurt if many people thanked her for playing
 >it very straight... as opposed to the terrible blind acceptance
 >of the Mogul Roswell explanation displayed in front page Sunday
 >coverage a few years back, by William Broad. It will probably
 >appear in many papers taking the NY Times News Service.


Stan, List,

Well, so far I've seen the story on the web, in Two state
(Oregon) papers and probably two weeks from now in  our local
fish wrapper. A refreshing difference not not having the
subject of UFOs being one for the "X-files"

GT McCoy

"Get your facts first, then distort
them as much as you want."-Mark Twain








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:45:44 +1100
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:08:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 00:50:15 -0500
 >From: Jacqueline Cosford <millpond@home.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:15:14 +0000
 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:48:32 +1100
 >>>>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>>>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>This is not the place to go into the lengthy science behind the
 >>>>current conclusions and expectations that I stated

 >>Hi Bill,

 >>Well hold on a second , what do you mean this isn't the place to
 >>go into lengthy discussions concerning the Pleiades? What is
 >>this list all about? Have you seen how long some threads have
 >>been going on here? With the greatest respect to you Bill, but
 >>you came out with a rather big statement on the Pleiades as far
 >>as I am concerned, which was and again I repeat: >>too young to
 >>support anything like life yet.

 >Hi Roy

 >I'm not sure if this will help but I'd like to try.

 >The Pleiades are 400 light years away, relatively close
 >considering the vast distances in space.

I'll go into some of the lengthy science. I usually do a
thorough job resulting in a very lengthy posting, but I do learn
a lot during this long process. I haven't had the time to do a
thorough job on this. In the article "Hipparcos: The Stars in
Three Dimensions", Sky and Telescope, June 1999, pages 40-50, on
page 47 it reports that the Hipparcos astronomic satellite
measured with unprecedented accuracy the distance to the
Pleiades as 375 light-years away, some 15% closer than
previously estimated. This result is still being pondered,
questioned and debated as the Pleiades no longer easily fits
into the existing astronomers thoughts on star formation or
evolution. I haven't had a chance to follow up this debate, but
if I was going to be thorough I would and this may give me
further information. Also if I was going to be thorough I would
expand out upon what astronomer's thoughts are on star formation
and evolution.

 >However, these stars were all born approximately 20 million
 >years ago, which does in fact make them baby stars.

At the URL

http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/messier/m/m045.html

it reports:

"According to new calculations published by a team from Geneva,
G. Meynet, J.-C. Mermilliod, and A. Maeder in Astron. Astrophys.
Suppl. Ser. 98, 477-504, 1993, the age of the Pleiades star
cluster amounts to 100 million years. This is considerably more
than the previously published "canonical" age of 60--80 million
years".

My previous figure of 10 million years came from trying to read
this from an old chart with not many entries on the time-scale.
If I was going to be thorough I would consult this paper and I
don't know what that may lead on to.

 >Our sun is 4.7 billion years old!

Besides sufficient time, you also need a watery planet for
independent life to start and evolve on to end up with lifeforms
like we are accustomed to. You also don't want this independent
life to be destroyed by things like large bodies crashing into
the surface of the watery planet or life-killing radiation. I
don't know what to think about how often watery planets occur in
planetary systems. There may be other lifeforms out there which
need a different starting criteria. I don't know what to make of
the odd lifeforms involved in the Dogong case about Sirius. This
is not the only incident from Africa which may be of interest to
the readers of this email group.

 >All the stars in the Pleiades group are blue-white which makes
 >them extremely hot. Just to give you an idea on how young this
 >group is, if we were to go back in time to the Age of the
 >Dinosaurs, the Pleiades would not exist, and wouldn't be born
 >for another 50 million years!

The interesting question is what was there before the Pleiades
as we now see them? Having an extremely hot star at the centre
of a planetary system, if a planetary system has at all formed,
won't encourage the formation of life.

At the URL

http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/messier/m/m045.html

it also reports:

"Cecilia Payne-Gaposhkin mentions that the Pleiades contain some
white dwarf (WD) stars. These stars give rise to a specific
problem of stellar evolution: How can white dwarfs exist in such
a young star cluster? As it is not only one, it is most certain
that these stars are original cluster members and not all field
stars which have been captured (a procedure which does not work
effectively in the rather loose open clusters anyway). From the
theory of stellar evolution, it follows that white dwarfs cannot
have masses above a limit of about 1.4 solar masses (the
Chandrasekhar limit), as they would collapse due to their own
gravitation if they were more massive. But stars with such a low
mass evolve so slow that it takes them billions of years to
evolve into that final state, not only the 100 million year age
of the Pleiades cluster.

The only possible explanation seems to be that these WD stars
were once massive so that they evolved fast, but due to some
reason (such as strong stellar winds, mass loss to close
neighbours, or fast rotation) have lost the greatest part of
their mass. Possibly they have, in consequence, lost another
considerable percentage of their mass in a planetary nebula.
Anyway, the final remaining stars (which was previously the
star's core) must have come below the Chandrasekhar limit, so
that they could go into the stable white dwarf end state, in
which they are now observed."

If I was going to be thorough I'd explain this more fully. The
presence of white dwarfs in the Pleiades would not be helpful
for life to form in the Pleiades.

 >When one takes into account that it took approximately 500
 >million years for our earth to cool and harden to form a crust
 >then it seems unlikely that any planets which may be forming
 >around the Pleiadian stars have reached that stage.

If I was going to be thorough I'd explain the theories of how
planetary systems form. The usual theory on this is that planets
accrete from a disk of planetesimals but there are serious
problems with this theory for the Solar System as it can't form
and account for Uranus and Neptune being where they are.

At the URL

http://www.metaresearch.org/mrb/a-revision-of-the-original-solar- system.htm

the radical astronomer Tom van Flandern has an alternative
theory on this. In the case of the Solar System, Tom thinks that
the proto-Sun accreted large amounts of matter from the rapidly
rotating disk which spun up the proto-Sun. When the
proto-Sun-disk boundary reaches the overspin condition, two
prolate bulges on opposite sides of the proto-Sun break away and
form twin proto-planets in low orbits just above the proto-Sun
surface in the inner disk. The initial spin of the
proto-planets, as well as their orbits, would be that of the
surface of the proto-Sun, and therefore always prograde.
Subsequent tidal evolution will evolve the twin proto-planets
outward at slightly different rates, with the more massive of
the two evolving outward faster because its tidal forces are
stronger.

At the URL

http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/messier/m/m045.html

it also reports:

"Some of the Pleiades stars are rapidly rotating, at velocities
of 150 to 300 km/sec at their surfaces, which is common among
main sequence stars of a certain spectral type (A-B). Due to
this rotation, they must be (oblate) spheroids rather than
spherical bodies. ... The most prominent example for a rapidly
rotating star in this cluster is Pleione, which is also variable
in brightness between mag 4.77 and 5.50 (Kenneth Glyn Jones). It
was spectroscopically observed that between the years 1938 and
1952, Pleione has ejected a gas shell because of this rotation,
as had been predicted by O. Struve."

This tends to suggest that if planets are forming around the
Pleiades stars then they are still in the very early stages of
planet formation as uncooled planets, if any are there, which
again tends to confirm that there is no hope of independent life
existing in the Pleiades. Certainly there doesn't appear to be
any hope of life existing near Pleione.

I still haven't gone into how independent life would evolve on a
watery planet after it cools, a watery planet being highly
unlikely in the Pleiades.

 >So I would tend to agree with Bill... the Pleiades are too damn
 >young to support any form of life!

That is to independently form life. It doesn't rule out the
possibility that intelligent life with extraordinary survival
abilities has come from elsewhere but I can't see why they would
want to (to hide perhaps?).



Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa







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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: googong@interact.net.au
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:17:49 +1100
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:10:01 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 15:00:30 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >Subject: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

This 'Photon-Belt' scam is further exposed at the URL

http://www.cfmeu.asn.au/cwilliams/PhotonBelt.html



Bill Alford googong@interact.net.au  http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: RGates8254@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:26:20 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:13:22 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:06:02 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle - UFO <pmufo@dial.pipex.com>
 >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Our new book will be a balanced look at the alien autopsy film
 >some of which you will have heard before some of which you will
 >not. For example, the complete story of how myself and Tim
 >Matthews exposed the tent footage as a hoax will be told in full
 >for the first time.

I am still hoping Phil will include some chapters at the end
with balanced looks from learned commentators on such topics as
the Pittdown man and the Hitler diarys.  :)

All in the same league as Santilli and film if you ask me.

Cheers,

Robert









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                 Re: Mac Tonnies <Cydonian Imperative: FAQ>

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:29:22 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:23:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Mac Tonnies <Cydonian Imperative: FAQ>


Cydonian Imperative Frequently Asked Questions

by Mac Tonnies

Already there appears to be some online dissent about what,
exactly, the "Cydonian Imperative" is all about.  I offer the
following FAQ (premature as it might be) as an appendix to my
earlier posts on the CI's raison d'etre.

Q.: Isn't the Face old news?  Didn't the new picture prove it to
be natural formation?

A.: The Face, along with a number of other anomalous features,
have been essentially "old news," as far as mainstream science
will have it, for 20 years.  The original two photos of the Face
were taken in 1976.  Together, they effectively dispelled the
official explanation that the formation was a "trick of light
and shadow."  Despite very good digital enhancement showing that
such a "trick" was not possible, this remained NASA's
conviction.

In April of 1998, the Face was imaged again by the Mars Global
Surveyor during an aerobraking hiatus, causing quite a stir in
the fringe science community.  Unfortunately for those
interested in getting to the bottom of the Face's origin, the
initial image released to the news media was basically one step
away from a "raw" image, showing no depth or tonal variety.  In
short, it looked like nothing in particular to those without
access to the Viking data with which to compare.  [A brief
history of the Face controversy has already been posted, and is
available on request.]

Media interest in the Face was thus dead on arrival.  Taking
advantage of an ill-informed public, NASA was able to flaunt the
fiction that the Face was "conclusively proven" to be a natural
landform while simultaneously claiming a neutral stance on the
matter.  Over the next year, NASA administrator Dan Goldin
unofficially withdrew his promise to reimage the Face (and other
formations) at every convenient opportunity.

Q.: Isn't this all just a self-indulgent waste of time for
people directed at people who want to believe we're not alone?

A.: On the contrary, the Cydonian Imperative seeks the
opportunity to arrive at the truth, whatever that might be.  The
apathetic climate exhibited by NASA, JPL and Malin Space Science
Systems may quite possibly constitute the defining intellectual
catastrophe of the 20th century.  In the meantime, Cydonian
artificiality remains an open question; "belief" does not enter
the picture.

Q.: What evidence will please you?  Suppose NASA takes a million
pictures of Cydonia and scientists of the ultra-skeptical
variety and scientists of the open-to-possibilities variety are
able to agree that the Face was a false alarm?

A.: At that point, the Cydonian Imperative will have served its
purpose.  But before those images are taken, we must construct a
stringent and uncompromising epistimology.  Discerning the
presence of nonhuman artifacts on other planets is an utterly
unique venture.  This is (pardon the pun) alien territory, and
it is undoubtedly this same refusal to face the unknown that has
helped to strengthen the apathy we now see.

Q.: Who made all of this stuff on Mars, anyway, supposing it's
artificial?

A.: The Cydonian Imperative does not claim to know, unlike some
individuals and groups involved in Cydonia research.  The CI
does not condemn speculation, but frowns upon those who proclaim
the mystery "solved."  Again, this is an open inquiry, not an
arena for our desires.

For the sake of argument, however, here are the three
interpretations of the Cydonian anomalies (assuming
artificiality):

1.) They were made by an intelligent race indigenous to Mars
(for whatever purpose).

2.) They were made by a star-faring civilization who happened to
pay Mars a visit quite a long time ago.

3.) They were made by members of an undiscovered,
technologically advanced terrestrial culture who visited Mars in
the past.

There is also, of course, the "null hypothesis," which holds
that the features at Cydonia and elsewhere on Mars and natural
formations indicating anomalous geology.

Q.: Is there a NASA coverup?

A.: The CI doesn't subscribe to any of the popular "coverup"
theories available online and in the fringe press.  Certainly,
NASA and Malin have misrepresented themselves and have behaved
irresponsibly, but I would be very surprised to learn that there
is some sinister "coverup" at work.

Granted, it's tempting to believe that the reason we have yet to
make sense of Cydonia is because of some round-table of evil
technocrats, but there is no substantial reason to think this is
actually the case.

Q.: Will people panic if it is disclosed that the Face and
pyramids are artificial, like in "Independence Day"?

A.: This query is actually beyond the scope of this FAQ, but the
answer is a confident "no."  This is not the same situation as
presented in "Independence Day" or other movies depicting alien
intelligence as something brutal and malevolent.  For one thing,
if the Cydonian formations are artificial, they appear very,
very old and present no immediate "threat" to us.  In the event
of disclosure, we would be forced to redefine our planetary
self-hood.  Quite possibly some, notably members of certain
religious groups, might react in an unproductive matter.

This has been an area of much concern.  The Brookings Institute
prepared a paper for NASA regarding the potential discovery of
extraterrestrial artifacts, advising (lamentably) secrecy
measures.  The authors of the Brookings paper viewed indirect
contact with nonhuman intelligence a significant threat to
societal well-being.

Needless to say, the CI advocates a serious rethinking of the
Brookings results.

Q.: Is the Cydonian Imperative the only organization around
concerned with Cydonia?

A.: Not by a long shot!  Scientifically, the CI takes its cue
from the ongoing work of SPSR (Society for Planetary SETI
Research), founded by Drs. Stanley V. McDaniel, Horace Crater,
and Mark Carlotto.  McDaniel's website has disappeared, leaving
Carlotto's as the (in my personal opinion) best online Cydonia
reference.  It can be reached at
www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html.

Q.: Where can I learn more online?

A.: The Cydonian Imperative Newsletter is free upon request.  It
can also be found on the mailing list maintained by Malta UFO
Research (www.mufor.org/ares).  The CI does not necessarily
endorse any of the many viewpoints available.

Some of the best material available is in book form.  _The Case
for the Face_, co-edited by Stanley McDaniel and including a
variety of informed viewpoints, is recommended along with the
second edition of Mark Carlotto's _The Martian Enigmas_, which
is a feast for the eyes and well as the intellect.  Purchasing
these books through MUFOR's website helps ensure the continued
operation of their Cydonia mailing list.

Lastly, the CI is defined more by its attitude than its
structure.  This isn't a "club" of any sort, but a nicely
packaged ideaology.

###

The Anatomy of Opposition

The following letter appeared on the MUFOR list after I posted
by previous editorial.  My replies are bracketed by parentheses.
I hope this serves as a clarification of the CI's particular
stance on this rather emotive subject matter.

Mr Tonnies seems to think "kooks" have "control of Cydonia.

That is absurd. He says we "kooks" look to closely at Cydonia
images, yet admits "we kooks" were the reason the amazing 1998
MGS images were taken.

(((This was by no means an "attack" on anyone!  I'm simply
reiterating the obvious: the media perceives people interested
in ETI as somewhat kooky.  Count me as one of them; I really
don't care.  As for the new Cydonia images: yes, it was the
pressure of us kooks who got them  taken, with SPSR as a very
effective official mouthpiece.)))

He reviles, "Cydonia Tshirts" and "pamphleteering" yet suggests
copying Cydonia images and posting them for friends and familty
to see them?!?

(((I advocate mainstreaming kookiness instead of the present
trend, which is to froth and the mouth and revel in it.)))

Rather than attack those of us who have dedicated ourselves and
our resources to studying and "publicizing" Cydonia, why doesn't
he join or existing high level discussion on the MTRAC lists and
elsewhere.

(((I'm not attacking anyone.  And I _am_ on this mailing list,
among others.)))

Also, our discovery of Face II at Cydonia, a stunning piece of
apparently Anunnaki handiwork is not addressed by Mr. Tonnies to
our knowledge.

(((I find the second "face" interesting, but not because of the
reasons you do.  I'm very intrigued with the symmetric platform
and the formation's orientation (the same as the Face's).  It's
not my job to analyze every chunk of conceivably anomalous
Martian real-estate and then arrive at a conclusion.  I am not a
trained scientist; my degree is in English.  I'm of the opinion
that intelligible future research must await new images, which
is, after all, why we're all here.)))

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a mailing list devoted to the immediate implementation of
manned Mars missions and the democratization of space
science, emphasizing the strange formations found in the
Cydonia Mensae region.  This list is not affiliated with any
particular Mars advocacy group, and is intended to be as
informal as possible.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

Useful websites:

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://shuttlenasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_








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                               Re: Bert Alien?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:52:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:09:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Bert Alien?


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:53:13 -0800
 >From: David Robbins <davidrobbins@bigplanet.com>
 >Subject: Bert Alien?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I would  bring your attention specifically to the "picture
 >evidence" portion of the web site listed below

"Photo Evidence" Its the second link down on a short list
in hard-to-read red on black print.   -LH

 >and make sure you click on the Crop Circle Evidence

 >and the Mars Observer picture file, both!

 >Given the serious nature of this discovery, I would recommend
 >forwarding this to Richard Hoagland as well!!

 >http://fractalcow.com/bert/bert.htm

 >Bert is Evil

Dear David:

The images are absolutely hilarious!
(Especially Bert at Cydonia)

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch










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                    Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 02:19:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:17:38 -0500
Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:38:10 -0500
 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
 >Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!
 >To: 'UFO UpDates - Toronto' <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:03:40 -0400
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I think it wouldn't hurt if many people thanked her for playing
 >>it very straight... as opposed to the terrible blind acceptance
 >>of the Mogul Roswell explanation displayed in front page Sunday
 >>coverage a few years back, by William Broad. It will probably
 >>appear in many papers taking the NY Times News Service.

 >>Stan Friedman

 >Agreed. I do think we started out with an advantage here --
 >Chinese scientists take the subject seriously, so a journalist
 >interviewing them has to take it seriously, too.

 >But note the phrase she used for Americans interested in UFOs --
 >"the sci-fi buffs and apocalyptical stargazers who are the
 >stereotype in the United States." Maybe she meant to say this is
 >a stereotype, not reality, but it sounds to me like she's buying
 >the description.

 >Greg Sandow

Hello Greg:

I noted the word stereotype and took it at face value. I think
the point was that at least one major UFO group in China is well
educated and being careful to avoid some of the excesses here.

If all the average joe sees here are the headline grabbers and
media clowns,  what can we expect of the Chinese with their
restricted access to foreign news?

One note: It is possible that the Chinese press has allowed some
good UFO news coverage, simply to draw attention away from their
suppression of the Falun Gong and other religious movements.
In one stroke,  they both divert attention from such matters,
and simultaneously present an image of tolerance for divergent
views.

Slick.

- Larry Hatch









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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:13:22 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:21:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 01:13:12 +0100
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:31:20 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:19:17 -0500 (EST)
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 14:29:45 -0500


 >As I mentioned above, when comparing the available reports -
 >yes, I find Arnold's and Johnson's (and Rankin's) reports credible.

 >And therefore, I think it's time to _forget everything_ about
 >he pelican theory now: The objects were _most likely_ to be
 >mechanical aircraft, of some unknown origin.

Some of the big questions are if they were human-made, who made
them, where were they being flown from, why are there no records
of such craft today, and why were they being seen all over the
place?

 >Thus: No birds; no eagles, no seagulls, no geese - no pelicans.

Good. A rational beginning.

 >- Guided (remotely controlled/operated/piloted) missiles, used
 >for some military testing/training purposes, or,

Well, that explains the speed, but doesn't explain the reported
shapes, formation flying, weaving motion, and magnetic
disturbances. Also, exactly who would be testing such missiles
over the Cascades, of all places, and why are there no related
records?

 >- Target practice planes; drones, or,

All would have to be subsonic, meaning that Arnold would have
had to get the distance seriously wrong. Yet at some closer
distance, he should have been able to pick out fins, wings, rear
stablizers, engines, etc. Same for Johnson. Then we get back to
the problems of the reported shapes, formation flying, weaving
motion, and magnetic disturbances, who would be testing these
things, and why are there no records of such planes/drones?

 >- Radar testing/training devices, i.e., light-weight, Al foil
 >"kites", ca. 30 feet in diameter, being dragged behind planes;

At least this explains something like the formation flying and
weaving motion "like the tail of a kite" reported by Arnold.
Unfortunately, such an explanation also has many, many serious
deficiencies.

To begin with, simple foil would be ripped to shreds in the wind
while being towed. They would have to be made of sterner stuff.
You also couldn't tow such targets at very high speed for other
reasons. The drag on eight 30-foot, flat, saucer-shaped objects
being towed by a lead aircraft would be tremendous.

Let's say the maximum speed under such circumstances was 200
mph. That's 1/8th of what Arnold thought they were flying at
about 24 miles. If you scale the speed down, that means they
would be only 3 miles away to have the same reported angular
speed. (Actually, they would have to be even closer because of
the small difference in air speed between Arnold's plane and the
hypothetical tow plane.)

At 3 miles, Arnold would have had no problems at all discerning
the lead aircraft towing the objects. He would have easily seen
the engines, tail, and wings. He had no problem, for example,
discerning a DC-4 at roughly 15 miles. And Johnson reportedly
saw these things from much closer up. There was no sound. Where
was the towing aircraft? Furthermore Johnson reported that they
were no longer in formation. That doesn't sound like objects
being towed anymore.

We're also back to the problems of magnetic disturbances
reported by Johnson, the absence of records of such devices,
etc.

 >maybe used in connection with radar scope "jamming" exercises?
 >(And could the Roswell debris from General Rameys office be
 >something similar? Just thinking.)

Well that was the Air Force claim back in 1947 and today with
the Mogul explanation -- the metallic foil was from a weather
radar kite. Sounds like more of the same to me.

 >(Note: I've been a radar operator myself, while serving my time
 >in the Air Force. I know that Al foils/pieces were dropped from
 >planes to "jam"/disturb the radar scopes. )

Big, big difference between foil strips and hypothetical foil
radar thing-a-ma-jigs 30 feet across being toward by a plane.

 >These are the best explanations I can think of today......

Keep trying.

 >(I think it's "very unlikely" that they are som kind of E.T.
 >objects - real UFOs; due to the fact that the observed aircraft
 >technology was similar to the state-of-the-art tech. in those days;

Flat, disk-like shape, supersonic and hypersonic speeds, no
visible external propulsion, absence of sound, no contrails,
erratic formation flying at high speed, ability to rapidly
change direction, magnetic disturbances, ....

How is this similar to the state-of-the-art tech in those days?

 >it is "very unlikely" that any E.T. tech., created in
 >other worlds in the universe should be so close to "our"
 >aircraft tech. in those days. Sorry....)

You are completely ignoring the many obvious differences between
what we had and what was observed. What exactly would you
expect of E.T. tech that would clearly distinguish it from human
tech? It seems like all-of-the-above would be a good starting
place.

David Rudiak









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 12

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:54:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:25:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 23:03:48 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:26:10 -0500

 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100


 >>Hello List:

 >>I guess we won't avoid discussing the Arnold sightings in the
 >>year 2000 either, so I just decided to be the first one this
 >>year (yes, I think so).

 >>Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >>observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain
 >>ridges.


 >>This year I will just refer to what Arnold told some of the
 >>newspapers - and - mention a report from the prospector F.M.
 >>Johnson, being on the ground up in the Cascades on - apparently


<snip>

 >>4. He clocked them from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams, arriving at
 >>the "amazing" speed of about 1200 miles an hour.

 >The actual calculated speed was closer to 1,700 mph. He
 >arbitrarily reduced the speed in his public statements in case
 >he had made an error.


I start thinking here; was Johnson able to follow an object
through a (apparently) _telescope_ for 1 min., when the speed
was supersonic?? I doubt this, and simply assume that the
"telescope" actually was some (general) field binoculars. (In my
opinion not so important....)

<snip>


 >>11. In addition: Arnold estimated the length of the objects as
 >>approximately equal in angular size to the spacing of engines on
 >>a DC-4 at 15 miles. Assume he was right, with the spacing about
 >>60 ft. Then the objects would be 4/60 x 15 = 1 mile away (from
 >>http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1999/aug/m25-006.shtml ).

 >Misinterpretation here. The objects were about 20 miles away
 >based on the claim by Arnold that they flew "in and out of the
 >mountain peaks" south of Mt. Rainier.
 >Thus the size was (60 ft / 15 miles) x ( 20 miles) = 80 ft
 >_approximately_... of course.<snip>


Yes, I admit now that I wrote the mail too fast....

 >>Some of the significant observations made by Johnson (as told to
 >>the Air Force), were as follows:

 ><snip>

 >>3. He observed 6-7 similarly looking objects - from his position
 >>in the CascadesMiles South of Arnold.

 ><snip>

 >>Other observations by myself - when comparing what they both
 >>have been reporting:

 >>- He didn't report seeing Arnold's plane up in the air, though.

 >Not surprising. He was about 50 miles from Arnold and perhaps on
 >th south side of a mountain (Arnold was way north of the Mt.
 >Adams. Johnson was near Mt. Adams)

 ><snip>

Yes, you're probably right here; Johnson likely didn't _hear_
anything from Arnolds noisy plane either - though the weather
was calm an "crystal clear" - according to Arnold.

(However, my own experiences are that it's very easy to hear
noise from planes up in the mountains, even from many miles away
from where you're standing.)

<snip>

 >>- Arnold didn't register any compass disturbances from _his
 >>distance_ up in the air, approx. _1 mile_ away, at approx. the
 >>same altitude as the discs.

 >Arnold was about 20 miles away. Not surprising there was no
 >compass disturbance (assuming he looked at his compass).
 >Magnetic field strength decreases as the cube of the distance.
 >The cube of the ratio of 20 miles to 1000 ft, is a large number.
 >1/this large number is the field reduction factor (0.0000008)


Yes. Got it! I was really thinking of where the emitting source
was located: _This_ particular object, or, other objects in the
air, close to this one, or, from some source on the ground -
somewhere.

But, most likely the source of magnetic disturbance was _this_
object, or maybe the 5-6 objects all together (..."metallic"
objects - thin foil is also metallic).

<snip>

 >>Which one of these two guys had the best imagination/fantasy?
 >>Well, the List members should judge for themselves which one of
 >>these men who are the most credible.

 >No reason to think that either is not credible.

When comparing the reports available for us on the Internet:
Yes, I find the stories and Arnold and Johnson credible! (I
wrote the mail more or less in a hurry, so I guess my
"philosophing" and conclusion weren't clear enough.)

 >>When ruling out any conspiracy theory, both of them - highly
 >>likely - _did_ observe some strange craft on - apparently - the
 >>_same_ day.

 >Yes.NOTE: Johnson's report was left unexplained by the Air Force. It
 >enjoys a unique position in this regard: it is the _first_
 >unexplained report in the Blue Book file, Arnold's sighting was
 >officially explained as a mirage. For further info see below.

As I also responded to other persons on this List:

When comparing the available reports - yes, I find Arnold's and
Johnson's (and Rankin's:
http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947c.htm ) reports credible.

And therefore, I think it's time to _forget everything_ about
the pelican theory now: The objects were _most likely_ to be
mechanical aircraft, of some unknown origin.

Thus: No birds; no eagles, no seagulls, no geese - no
pelicans......

So, I will "simply and quietly" return to some of my earlier
suggestions (see previous mails on the List), and will suggest
that they were likely to be (when thinking any engine noise from
the aircraft is "almost designed away", or difficult to hear
anyway):

- Guided (remotely controlled/operated/piloted) missiles, used for
some military testing/training purposes, or,

- Target practice planes; drones, or,

- Radar testing/training devices, i.e., light-weight, Al foil
"kites", ca. 30 feet in diameter, being dragged behind planes;
maybe used in connection with radar scope "jamming" exercises?
(And... could the Roswell debris from General Rameys office be
something similar?... Just thinking... ) (Note: I've been a
radar operator myself, while serving my time in the Air Force. I
know that Al foils/pieces were dropped from planes to
"jam"/disturb the radar scopes. )

These are the best explanations I can think of today......

(I think it's "very unlikely" that they are som kind of E.T.
objects - real UFOs; due to the fact that the observed aircraft
technology was similar to the state-of-the-art tech. in those
days; it is "very unlikely" that any E.T. tech., created in
other worlds in the universe should be so close to "our"
aircraft tech. in those days. Sorry... )

Best regards,

Asgeir









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 12

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:28:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:29:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 21:14:07 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:37:45 -0500

 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >Hello, all Dave, Asgir.

 >>Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 13:19:17 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >>>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>>Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100
 >>>Fwd Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 23:45:31 -0500

 >>>Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>>Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >>>observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain
 >>>ridges.


 >I have a good reason to comment here. An old instructor of mine
 >flew for the Rankins ,Tex and Richard (Tex was famous in his day
 >as oh, Michael Jordan only he and his brother produced 10,000+
 >Pilots in WWll under the Civilian Pilot training program.(As Irecall.)


 >>This year I will just refer to what Arnold told some of the
 >>newspapers - and - mention a report from the prospector F.M.
 >>Johnson, being on the ground up in the Cascades on - apparently


<snip>

 >>Perhaps you should reread the referenced post by Bruce Maccabee,
 >>except this time try to read it more carefully.  Bruce was
 >>calculating how far away 4 foot PELICANS would be to have the
 >>same angular size as 60 feet appears at 15 miles.  This was NOT
 >>a claim that the objects Arnold saw were only 1 mile away.


 >Having flown 4-engine Douglases for a living ,I agree.


Yes, I admit now that I wrote the mail too fast....

 >>In your list of details reported by Arnold, you also left out the very
 >>important detail that he estimated the objects to be about 23 miles
 >>away because he saw them briefly disappear behind a subpeak
 >>of Mt. Rainier.  He also reported them weaving in and out amongst
 >>the peaks of the southern Cascades, and fading out in the direction
 >>of Mt. Adams, about 30 miles away.


 >>>Some of the significant observations made by Johnson (as told to
 >>>the Air Force), were as follows:
 >><......>
 >>>Other observations by myself - when comparing what they both
 >>>have been reporting:
 >>>- He didn't report seeing Arnold's plane up in the air, though.


 >yes and the Call Air A-2 was a noisy little suckertoo... puttt.. puuttt, etc.


Yes, Johnson apparently didn't _hear_ anything from Arnolds noisy
plane either - though the weather was calm an "crystal clear" -
according to Arnold.

However, my own experiences are that it's very easy to hear noise
from planes up in the mountains, even from many miles away from
where you're standing.

 >>Not surprising, since Johnson was on Mt. Adams and Arnold was over
 >>by Mt. Rainier, over 30 miles away.


 >>>- It is not quite certain whether the man Arnold's mentioning in
 >>>the newspaper is Mr. Johnson; Johnson, though, reported that he
 >>>remained up in the mountains for "several days" after the '
 >>>sighting...


 >A true Mountain Man...I love it.


 >>The man mentioned may have been veteran pilot Richard Rankin,
 >>who reported


 >See the URL at the end of my reply.


I agree; the Rankin story is (also) found here:
http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947c.htm

 >>seeing 10 objects flying in formation over California the day before


 >Arnold. Rankin and Arnold, I believe, did meet later and compare
 >notes.


Possibly, but _not_ mentioned here:
http://www.project1947.com/fig/1947c.htm

The credibility in Rankin's story should then _increase_ in my opinion
(i.e., when they did _not_ compare notes)....

<snip>

 >Don't forget Rankin, a least he's as good as either Arnold orJohnson.


I agree here; see above, with mentioned URL.

<snip>

 >Also Rankin's which observation though different than Arnold's
 >or Johnson's should be looked at as a possible correlation.
 >Granted that Rankin thought they might be XF5U "flapjack" type
 >aircraft, the well -advertised (it even appeared in texbooks of
 >the period) "Flapjack" was a  non- flown one off as stated by
 >myself earlier on this forum. see Rankin's story at the
 >following : www.paranormalnews/archives/1947/19471.htmlGT

I wasn't able to open this one; see above for alternative URL.

 >McCoy

As I also responded to other persons on this List:

When comparing the available reports - yes, I find Arnold's and
Johnson's (and Rankin's) reports credible.

And therefore, I think it's time to _forget everything_ about
the pelican theory now: The objects were _most likely_ to be
mechanical aircraft, of some unknown origin.

Thus: No birds; no eagles, no seagulls, no geese - no pelicans...

So, I will "simply and quietly" return to some of my earlier
suggestions (see previous mails on the List), and will suggest
that they were likely to be (when thinking any engine noise from
the aircraft is "almost designed away", or difficult to hear
anyway):

- Guided (remotely controlled/operated/piloted) missiles, used
for some military testing/training purposes, or,

- Target practice planes; drones, or,

- Radar testing/training devices, i.e., light-weight, Al foil
"kites", ca. 30 feet in diameter, being dragged behind planes;
maybe used in connection with radar scope "jamming" exercises?
(And... could the Roswell debris from General Rameys office be
something similar?... Just thinking... ) (Note: I've been a
radar operator myself, while serving my time in the Air Force. I
know that Al foils/pieces were dropped from planes to
"jam"/disturb the radar scopes. )

These are the best explanations I can think of today...

(I think it's "very unlikely" that they are som kind of E.T.
objects - real UFOs; due to the fact that the observed aircraft
technology was similar to the state-of-the-art tech. in those
days; it is "very unlikely" that any E.T. tech., created in
other worlds in the universe should be so close to "our"
aircraft tech. in those days. Sorry... )

Best regards,

Asgeir








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 12

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:37:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:33:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2000 16:52:14 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:41:32 -0500

 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Subject: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100

 >>But, the most interesting Johnson observation was the "big hand
 >>of a clock" in the tail of (at least one) of the objects - and
 >>the associated magnetic disturbances.

 >>Further, there were no noise or sonic booms heard on the ground
 >>- thus the object speeds couldn't possibly be higher than the
 >>speed of sound (700 mph).

 >>Best regards,
 >>Asgeir

 >Well, I disagree with your statment:  "thus the object speeds
 >couldn't possibly be higher than the speed of sound (700 mph)."
 >First of all, if the objects were already traveling above "750
 >mph," when they were sighted, the sonic boom, if there was one,
 >would have long since been experienced.


And, I started thinking here; was Johnson able to follow an
object through a (apparently) _telescope_ for 1 min., when the
speed was supersonic?? I doubt this, and simply assume that the
"telescope" actually was some (general) field binoculars. (In my
opinion not so important... )

 >REgards, Mike


As I also responded to other persons on this List: When
comparing the available reports - yes, I find Arnold's and
Johnson's (and Rankin's) reports credible.

And therefore, I think it's time to _forget everything_ about
the pelican theory now: The objects were _most likely_ to be
mechanical aircraft, of some unknown origin.

Thus: No birds; no eagles, no seagulls, no geese - no pelicans...

So, I will "simply and quietly" return to some of my earlier
suggestions (see previous mails on the List), and will suggest
that they were likely to be (when thinking any engine noise from
the aircraft is "almost designed away", or difficult to hear
anyway):

- Guided (remotely controlled/operated/piloted) missiles, used
for some military testing/training purposes, or,

- Target practice planes; drones, or,

- Radar testing/training devices, i.e., light-weight, Al foil
"kites", ca. 30 feet in diameter, being dragged behind planes;
maybe used in connection with radar scope "jamming" exercises?
(And... could the Roswell debris from General Rameys office be
something similar?... Just thinking... ) (Note: I've been a
radar operator myself, while serving my time in the Air Force. I
know that Al foils/pieces were dropped from planes to
"jam"/disturb the radar scopes. )

These are the best explanations I can think of today......

(I think it's "very unlikely" that they are som kind of E.T.
objects - real UFOs; due to the fact that the observed aircraft
technology was similar to the state-of-the-art tech. in those
days; it is "very unlikely" that any E.T. tech., created in
other worlds in the universe should be so close to "our"
aircraft tech. in those days. Sorry....)

Best regards,
Asgeir








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 12

                    Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:04:28 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:37:19 -0500
Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:38:10 -0500
 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
 >Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!
 >To: 'UFO UpDates - Toronto' <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:03:40 -0400
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: NY Times Front Page UFO Article!
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I think it wouldn't hurt if many people thanked her for playing
 >>it very straight... as opposed to the terrible blind acceptance
 >>of the Mogul Roswell explanation displayed in front page Sunday
 >>coverage a few years back, by William Broad. It will probably
 >>appear in many papers taking the NY Times News Service.

 >>Stan Friedman

 >Agreed. I do think we started out with an advantage here --
 >Chinese scientists take the subject seriously, so a journalist
 >interviewing them has to take it seriously, too.

 >But note the phrase she used for Americans interested in UFOs --
 >"the sci-fi buffs and apocalyptical stargazers who are the
 >stereotype in the United States." Maybe she meant to say this is
 >a stereotype, not reality, but it sounds to me like she's buying
 >the description.

 >Greg Sandow

On the one hand.

On the other, it is refreshing to read something from the New
York Times other than, "Et tu, stupido?"   Throwing caution to
the wind, and hoping it is not called gas, I wrote her, thanking
her for something a little off that well worn Klass path which
we expect from most media.  Who knows, it may even be
appreciated.

Jim Mortellaro









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 12

                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:37:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:40:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:45:44 +1100
 >From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Bill,

Thanks for the information filled post.

You said:

 >Pleiades as 375 light-years away, some 15% closer than
 >previously estimated. This result is still being pondered,
 >questioned and debated as the Pleiades no longer easily fits
 >into the existing astronomers thoughts on star formation or
 >evolution.

I also find it difficult to understand why this unremarkable
star cluster is known to all cultures, religions, and earthly
locations.  Not only known but, in large part, the most
important star cluster.

"The most solemn and impressive religious ceremony of the Aztecs
was timed to coincide with the moment when the Pleiades were in
the middle of the sky precisely at midnight.  The cermony
occurred at the end of the so-called 'great period' of fifty two
years.  The expectation of the Aztects was that at  this point
the stars could cease to revolve and the world come to an end"
Stan Gooch  *Cities of Dreams*








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   Jan > Jan 12

                         Re: Woods Request and MJ12

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:28:17 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:54:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Woods Request and MJ12


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:28:01 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Woods Request and MJ12

 >>Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 00:29:55 +1300 (NZDT)
 >>From: Murray Bott <murrayb@win.co.nz>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >>Subject: Woods Request and MJ12

 >>Greetings List
 >>I note the request from Ryan Wood requesting Email addresses etc
 >>and as he is one of those seeming to push the MJ12 subject I
 >>would respectfully request that he take the following analysis
 >>into consideration
 >>I also have my own notes on "Operation/Project Majic" which I
 >>will post in my next message
 >>Regards
 >>Murray
 >>-----

 >>Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 14:20:15 +1200
 >>To: murrayb@win.co.nz

 >>Subject: majic.htm

 >>A Comparison of the Pre-War Cryptanalysis of Japanese Ciphers to
 >>the Spurious "Majestic 12"
 >>by Paul B. Thompson Nebula Editor pscpol@aol.com
 >>In December 1984, a package was received at the home of Jaime
 >>Shandera, a Los Angeles TV producer and writer. It contained a
 >>roll of unprocessed 35 mm film, which when printed, proved to

<snip>

 >How superficial and inaccurate. The Cutler Twining memo for
 >example, was found at the National Archives NOT on the roll of
 >film received by Shandera. Sounds like proclamations rather than
 >evidence... At least He might have referred to my book TOP
 >SECRET/MAJIC and my Final Report on Operation Majestic
 >12(108pages) and several other papers that deal with the details
 >and the facts as opposed to proclamations.

<snip>

 >>The hoaxer(s) who created the Majestic 12 documents knew enough
 >>history to include prominent generals and real scientists on the
 >>list of purported members. They also rather carefully chose 12
 >>men who were all dead by 1984 and thus could not deny ever being
 >>members of MJ12.

 >The last survivor died in September 1984 with an obit in the NY
 >Times (J.Hunsaker). The box in which the CT memo was found was
 >first handled 2 weeks later.Hunsaker had been the last survivor
 >for about 2 years. Surely one can imagine that the film  sender
 >was waiting for him to die so that he wouldn't be bothered. The
 >group had 6 civilians and six military guys.. 2 army, 2 navy, 2
 >air force. . There is a great deal more. Claiming fraud is easy.
 >demonstrating it and refuting my detailed investigation is
 >considerably more difficult.. little details such as the
 >discovery by the GAO investigators that the security marking on
 >the Cutler Twining memo TOP SECRET RESTRICTED, contrary to
 >pronouncements by the NSC and various "researchers", had been in
 >use at the time . That the type dface used matches precisely
 >that on other memos from the NSC despite Philip Klass's claims
 >to the contrary. He paid me $1000. for proving that.

 >>The most unusual member (from the UFO buffs'
 >>point of view) was Dr. Donald Menzel, the Harvard astronomer who
 >>published a couple of sarcastic and superficial debunking books
 >>about UFOs. When a little digging uncovered the "revelation"

<snip>

 >How superficial can one get!. Menzel authored or co authored 3
 >books about UFOs not 2 . None of the many background papers
 >about him mentioned his close association with the NSA, nor his
 >being a world class cryptographer, nor his associations with
 >Vannevar Bush, the CIA and dozens of other companies doing

<snip>

 >So how much did the MJ12 hoaxer(s) draw upon the real story of
 >"Magic?" Short of their confession, there's no way to

<snip>

 >>These parallels amply demonstrate the possible inspiration by
 >>the historic "Magic" to the false "Majic." Coupled with the lack
 >>of provenance and the errors in the documents themselves, there
 >>seems no reason to regard the MJ12 documents as anything but
 >>fiction -- and failed fiction, at that.So where are all these errors??
 >>(c) Copyright 1997 ParaScope, Inc. >Email : murrayb@win.co.nz
 >>Voice : 64-9-6345285
 >>Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand

 >This analysis doesn't cut the mustard and is superficial . TSM
 >is 272 pages long. Final Report on Op. Majestic 12 is 108 pages.
 >Other papers total more than 100 papers. Provenance?? We still
 >don't know who deep throat was, but that doesn't mean Woodward
 >and Bernstein were all wet.

 >Stanton Friedman


Stanton & List:

Here's why I _personally_ believe that _all_ of the MJ-12 documents
are fakes.

MJ-12 documents are found at this URL:

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pdf/eisenhower_briefing.pdf

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pdf/airaccidentreport.pdf

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pdf/twining_truman.pdf

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pdf/truman_forrestal.pdf

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pdf/cia_joia.pdf

I decided to do some fairly simple research; I searched the
Internet, and found the following websites, relating to the CIA
director R.H. Hillenkoetter, and President Truman, at the
www.whistlestop.org project site:

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/bomb/small/mb23.htm

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/bomb/large/meeting_minutes/bmi13-1.
htm

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/bomb/large/groves_project/bmc7-2.ht
m

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/bomb/small/mb7-2.gif

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/israel/large/folder1/isa16-1.htm

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/israel/large/folder1/isa19-1.htm

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/israel/large/folder1/isa14-1.htm

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/israel/large/folder1/isa13-1.htm

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/israel/large/folder1/isa10-1.htm

(Hillenkoetter, specifically:)

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/berlin_airlift/large/cia/bal44-2.ht
m

http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/berlin_airlift/large/cia/bal47-3.ht
m


When comparing the following three documents:

1)  http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/pdf/cia_joia.pdf
(requiring adobe Acrobat)

2)  http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/berlin_airlift/larg
e/cia/bal47-3.htm

3)  http://www.whistlestop.org/study_collections/berlin_airlift/large/cia/bal44-
2.htm

one can see that the no. 1) document - the MJ-12 doc - is:

- Lacking the dot above the "i" in Hillenkoetter's
   autograph/handwriting.

_That dot_ is allways there; look at the other two, real RHH
documents referred to above (no. 2 and 3). (And possibly, the
last "dot", after "r", is also missing in the handwriting of no.
1.)

Further, the real, no. 2 and 3, "end text" (below the autograph):

"R. H. HILLENKOETTER
Rear Admiral, (with a _comma_ after the "l") USN
Director of Central Intelligence"

is (in 1949) written as:

"R. H. HILLENKOETTER
REAR ADMIRAL. (with a _dot_ after the "L"?) USN
DIRECTOR OF OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE"

with the following observations, different from _all of the_ the
_real_ 1948 docs/memos:

- A different typewriter has been used in the main letter and
   the text below the autograph, and,

- Capital letters, and,

- Two different character sizes are being used, and,

- Different letter types (fonts; modern type?), and,

- The text not completely in line with the text lines in the
   main letter text above.

I find it "strange" that this latter text is so different, even
though they are written in two different years, 1948 and 1949.
(I didn't find any real CIA memos from 1949... ) The text in the
real memos is written using the same typewriter as in the main
text of the letter.

Conclusion:

The rest of the MJ-12 documents are also fakes, and I wouldn't
recommend spending much time and efforts on reading these,
except for those interested in Science Fiction......

Best regards,
Asgei






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   Jan > Jan 12

                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:38:20 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:55:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


-----Original Message-----
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
To: 02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :; <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;>
Date: 07 January 2000 09:35
Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:29:28 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >
 >

 >Hi Jenny,
 >
 >Happy New Year to you!
 >
 >Concerning the assult carried out on Bob Taylor, what were the
 >specific injuries that he suffered?

A burn or abbrasion under his chin (origin unknown) and a similar mark on
his thigh coincident with where he claimed a 'spike' touched him from the
object that emerged from the UFO. He also suffered physiological after
effects - namely severe headaches, muscle debilitation that prevented him
from doing more but crawling for some minutes and nausea that lasted only an
hour or two. All such effects were over within hours.

 >
 >Were there any unusual medical anamolies picked on his injuries
 >at the Hospital?


He was visited by his GP (who found nothing amiss but suggested a head x
ray) . He spent nearly two hours waiting (the downside of free medical
treatment in the UK is that it can be slow) and then found the hospital
wanted to do a full physical. He believed he was now well and declined this
and discharged himself without being seen by a doctor.

 >Was there any Radar tracking of this object as  added
 >confirmation to the landing of such a vehicle?


None reported, but if there was we would be unlikely to be told.

 >What was the depth of the indentations in the ground?


About 5 cm

 >Were there unusaully high traces of any substance at the site?


None found. And no radiation anomalies in readings taken five days later.

 >Did the 2 objects which appeared from the main object move in
 >sync with each other?


He was only conscious of them for a second or two so its impossible to say.

 >Were there any previous UFO sightings, prior to the incident
 >happenning?


Yes, quite a few locally in and around and one nearby almost contemporary
with the sighting. Also a weird event about two years earlier in which a
young girl wandered off and was missing for hours. She was found dazed and
unable to properly explain what had happened to her. Bob Taylor was part of
the search. She turned up in the same area just a few hundred yards from
where the later sighting occurred.



 >Where is the location of the nearest Military Base from the
 >incident sight?


Not sure, but none immediately local.

 >How remote is the area?


Hardly at all. This is a reasonable sized new town with plenty of factories
and planned houses only a few miles outside the large city of Edinburgh. A
busy motorway (freeway) passes the site only a few hundred yards away but
shielded from the site. The immediate area was basically a wooded  park for
the local residents.

 >Were the military using any kind of ARV's at the time of 1979?


No idea

 >If so where would early testing of (UK) ARV's have taken place?


Not here, I am pretty sure. Too many possible witnesses. Its like testing
one in the suburbs of Chicago.

 >Have ARV's ever been used as weapons in any warzone?


Sorry again no idea,

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles









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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:48:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:44:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 17:37:37 +0100
 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >So, I will "simply and quietly" return to some of my earlier
 >suggestions (see previous mails on the List), and will suggest
 >that they were likely to be (when thinking any engine noise from
 >the aircraft is "almost designed away", or difficult to hear
 >anyway):

 >- Guided (remotely controlled/operated/piloted) missiles, used
 >for some military testing/training purposes, or,

 >- Target practice planes; drones, or,

 >- Radar testing/training devices, i.e., light-weight, Al foil
 >"kites", ca. 30 feet in diameter, being dragged behind planes;
 >maybe used in connection with radar scope "jamming" exercises?
 >(And... could the Roswell debris from General Rameys office be
 >something similar?... Just thinking... ) (Note: I've been a
 >radar operator myself, while serving my time in the Air Force. I
 >know that Al foils/pieces were dropped from planes to
 >"jam"/disturb the radar scopes. )

 >These are the best explanations I can think of today......

 >(I think it's "very unlikely" that they are som kind of E.T.
 >objects - real UFOs; due to the fact that the observed aircraft
 >technology was similar to the state-of-the-art tech. in those
 >days; it is "very unlikely" that any E.T. tech., created in
 >other worlds in the universe should be so close to "our"
 >aircraft tech. in those days. Sorry....)

 >Best regards,
 >Asgeir

Hi Asgeir...

With the general overall knowledge available to the average
person today, via, movies, TV, documentaries, videos, books and
air shows, don't you think the average person has a pretty good
grasp of what is flying around our skies.

Even those who are simplistic in their views of scientific and
military technological advances in aviation technology, are able
to look at flying vehicles and realize the characteristics of
earth made aircraft.

Anything which deviates from the norm would then be considered a
UFO.  What is the chance that UFOs are non-earlthly in origin?

Many people still consider the idea that these vehicles could be
extrterrestrial in origin as absolute foolishness.

Why is this so?

In a world where ancient and modern technologies have come
together in day to day living; where ancient shrines and temples
are intermingled with modern skyscrapers, and satellite
receiving stations; where ancient religions sing songs of
technological capabilities and wars with frightning weapons;
why then is it so hard to bring those ancient tales into modern
times and integrate them into our society?

If ancient races could deal with the realitise of non-earthly
beings and their interminglings, why can't we?

Modern society dictates that we are the most advanced society to
have existed on this planet.  Yet, we cannot even come close to
the level of understanding on this planet four or five thousand
years ago.

Why is this so?

I for one say, what the hell.  Who am I to say that UFOs are not
E.T. in origin?  Is my knowledge so all encompassing that it
cannot be added to?

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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   Jan > Jan 12

                 'Starfield Camouflage' - Interesting Image

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:02:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 23:50:40 -0500
Subject: 'Starfield Camouflage' - Interesting Image


In response to the January 5, 2000 UFO sighting by police
officers in Illinois, Eric Martin has created an image which
depicts a clear night sky partly obstructed by a dark object in
the foreground.

In Martin's rendition, this moving object (presumably
operational at a low elevation) is speckled with small lights
which, in theory, would blend in with the stars when viewed by
ground observers.

Many thanks to Eric Martin for this image, which can be viewed
at the following location:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/camouflage1.html

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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   Jan > Jan 13

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:30:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:49:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100

Asgeir wrote:

 >We should _really_ assume that both of them were credible
persons and observers, and that they both told the truth to the
 >Air Force in their reports. (Or, what interests did they have in
 >not telling the truth? Were they both specifically looking for
 >very much attention?)

 >Should we pay some specific attention to the compass
 >disturbances - that there were _none_ (reported by Arnold) up in
 >the air, 1 mile (1,600 m) away from the objects, but still there
 >were disturbances on the ground, some 1,000 feet (300 m)
 >below....?


Asgeir,

Unfortunately, Johnson's claims weren't made until 20 August,
almost two months after Arnold's story had become nationally
known. It's reliability, even if only the accuracy after so
long, is consequently questionable.

There are obvious anomalies - as you note, why wouldn't Arnold's
compass and instruments also have been affected, etc.


 >Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain
 >ridges.

When I first raised that possibility, it was as stated
speculative, although an avenue which had never been
investigated.

The story has come a long way since then, as evidenced by some
correspondence I received from Dr Jacqueline Mitton, who has for
the past 10 years been the media spokesperson for the
prestigious Royal Astronomical Society:

"I found what you had to say of great interest and your detailed
research adds strong weight to the interpretation of Arnold's
sighting as birds. I wish I'd known about it before giving my
talk at the British Association for the Advancement of Science".


Following this brief reply, there is something being published
which you might want to consider in forming any judgement of
what Arnold probably observed.

It contains important new evidence and one way or another,
you'll no doubt hear about it.


James Easton.
E-Mail: voyager@ukonline.co.uk








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   Jan > Jan 13

                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:01 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:27:58 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:37:24 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:40:17 -0500
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:45:44 +1100
 >From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Pleiades as 375 light-years away, some 15% closer than
 >>previously estimated. This result is still being pondered,
 >>questioned and debated as the Pleiades no longer easily fits
 >>into the existing astronomers thoughts on star formation or
 >>evolution.

 >I also find it difficult to understand why this unremarkable
 >star cluster is known to all cultures, religions, and earthly
 >locations.  Not only known but, in large part, the most
 >important star cluster.

 >"The most solemn and impressive religious ceremony of the Aztecs
 >was timed to coincide with the moment when the Pleiades were in
 >the middle of the sky precisely at midnight.  The cermony
 >occurred at the end of the so-called 'great period' of fifty two
 >years.  The expectation of the Aztects was that at  this point
 >the stars could cease to revolve and the world come to an end"
 >Stan Gooch  *Cities of Dreams*


Ed,

I wouldn't make too much of this.  The Pleiades is the _only_
star cluster where individual stars are resolvable with the
naked eye (hence the Pleides also being called "The Seven
Sisters" for the 7 visible, resolvable stars in the cluster).
All other star clusters look like fuzzy patches without the aid
of a telescope or binoculars.  This sets the Pleiades apart from
the other star clusters from a human perspective, even if it is
merely another unremarkable star cluster.

David Rudiak









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:45:33 +1100
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:34:45 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:37:24 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

...

 >The most solemn and impressive religious ceremony of the Aztecs
 >was timed to coincide with the moment when the Pleiades were in
 >the middle of the sky precisely at midnight.  The cermony
 >occurred at the end of the so-called 'great period' of fifty two
 >years.  The expectation of the Aztects was that at  this point
 >the stars could cease to revolve and the world come to an end"

 >Stan Gooch  *Cities of Dreams*

Further to what Ed has posted, the Pleiades were significant to
the Maya. On the solstice day of May 20, 2012, at Chichen Itza,
the rare event of the Sun passing through the zenith at midday
and the Pleiades passing through the zenith at midnight will
occur. The date on which the Sun and the Pleiades pass through
the zenith depends upon latitude and changes with precession.

Also, on May 20, 2012, there will be a total solar eclipse that
will sweep across central and western North America. So the Sun
and the Pleiades will pass through the zenith along with the
Moon on May 20, 2012 at Chichen Itza in a rare precessional
alignment.

In Toltec mythology, a new World Age would begin when the
Pleiades aligned with the first zenith passage of the Sun in
May, as at Chichen Itza on May 20, 2012.

At Chichen Itza, there is supposed to be a fabled return of
Quetzalcoatl and the Sun-Pleiades-zenith alignment may be when
this happens on May 20, 2012.

On December 21, 2012, a rare astronomical alignment will occur
which is due to the precession of the equinoxes and occurs only
once during a cycle of the precession of the equinoxes of 25694
years. In this alignment, the December solstice sun conjuncts
the crossing point of the centre of our Milky Way galaxy and the
ecliptic in Sagittarius. This day is of great significance to
the Maya. The Mesoamericans had great knowledge of astronomy,
which raises the question of were there ETs behind this.

The Pleiades were also of practical value, as the following
article from todays local newspaper shows, errors and all:

"Indians in the know about El Nino

FARMERS in the high Andes Mountains may have been able to
predict El Nino for centuries by observing whether clouds dimmed
the light from a cluster of stars called the Pleiades.

A potato farming tradition handed down from one generation to
the next teaches that the brightness of stars in the
constellation during June roughly predicted the rainfall during
the growing season from October to May.

The brighter the stars, the more abundant the rain for a potato
crop highly vulnerable to drought. If poor rains are predicted,
villagers in the mountains of Peru and Bolivia delay planting
for several weeks.

Benjamin Orlove at the University of California and co-workers
report in Nature that modern meteorology supports the farming
tradition.

His study of satellite and weather data suggests that wispy
cirrus clouds high in the atmosphere are more prevalent during
El Nino, a warming of the Pacific Ocean that occurs roughly
every two to seven years.

"What is remarkable is how detailed this cloud data is," Orlove
said.

Orlove, who spent a number of years in the Peruvian Andes, said
the clouds obscure the dimmest five of the 11 main stars that
form the Pleiades. The dimmer stars are on the outer edges of
the constellation, so it appears to shrink when viewed with the
naked eye, he said.

The changes apparently can only be seen in the clear, dry air of
the high Andes, which have a unique weather pattern, Orlove
said.

The farming tradition may extend back to the 15th century and
the Inca empire, said Alan Kolata, a University of Chicago
anthropologist who specialises in the Andes. He said the Incas,
who unified the central Andes tribes, had extensive astronomical
knowledge even though they lacked a written language.

"I believe it's a quite provocative, interesting work and Ben is
certainly on to something," Kolata said.

-AP"

Bill Alford

googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa








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               Vandenberg Launch To Light Up California Skies

From: Joel Carpenter <ufx@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 07:35:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:43:50 -0500
Subject: Vandenberg Launch To Light Up California Skies


NSS LaunchWatch
National Space Society/Western Spaceport Chapter


   MINOTAUR SET FOR WEST COAST LAUNCH DEBUT FRIDAY EVENING
        "Twilight Phenomena" may be seen from as far away as 200 miles

VANDENBERG AFB, CA (January 13) -- A Minotaur missile is
scheduled for launch from Vandenberg AFB in Santa Barbara County
on Friday evening, January 14th -- which could result in public
sightings of the "Twilight Phenomena" throughout the Southern
and Central California area (see below).

The Minotaur is scheduled to lift off from the newly constructed
Space Launch Complex-7 (SLC-7) at 7:04 PST, and head towards the
Southwest to place several small satellites into polar orbit.

The launch window runs from 6:54 to 9:54 PST.  If the weather is
favorable, the launch should be visible for at least 200 miles
throughout the Southern and Central California area.


WHAT IS THE "TWILIGHT PHENOMENA"?

The "weird lights" occasionally seen by people during predawn or
post-sunset hours above Southern and Central California are not
UFOs, space aliens, nuclear attacks or the latest signs of the
Y2K Apocalypse -- but more likely the telltale sign of yet
another rocket launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base in Santa
Barbara County.

This visual apparition is more commonly known as "Twilight
Phenomena."

Twilight phenomena is produced when unburned missile or rocket
propellant particles and water vapor left in the exhaust trail
of a launch condenses and crystallizes in the less dense upper
atmosphere.  These fragments, in turn, reflect high altitude
sunlight, producing the spectacular, colorful effects when seen
from the ground in outlying areas from Vandenberg AFB.

The phenomena's appearance varies with viewer location, but can
usually be seen throughout the state of California, and as far
away as Utah and Nevada.

Twilight phenomena typically produces green, blue, white and
rose colored clouds which take on a corkscrew appearance as they
are whipped around and twisted by wind currents.  It is usually
seen two to three minutes after a launch, and can remain in the
sky for over a half hour before dispersing.

Twilight phenomena most often occurs when a missile launch takes
place within 30 to 60 minutes after sunset or before sunrise as
the rocket rises out of the darkness and into the sunlight.
Since 1958, Vandenberg has launched nearly 1,800 missiles and
space launch vehicles from the West coast spaceport -- but only
a small number of these have created the twilight phenomena.

Many observers in the general public have assumed -- incorrectly
-- that the phenomena is the product of a missile or rocket
malfunction, but these events are not linked.

----------------------------------------------------------------

(The following Air Force news release details the launch)

SPACE & MISSILE SYSTEMS CENTER (AFMC)
Office of Public Affairs

Air Force Minuteman Set to be First Launch of New Millennium

LOS ANGELES AIR FORCE BASE, Calif., -- For the first time ever,
the Air Force will use a refurbished Minuteman II rocket motor
combined with PegasusXL upper stages to launch satellites into
orbit Jan 14, expected to be the world's first space launch of
the millennium.

The famed Minuteman II rocket, deactivated as an offensive
weapon system by the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty in 1991,
was initially designed as an Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles
(ICBM) delivery system.

Liftoff from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif., is set for 7:04
p.m. PST.

The Orbital Suborbital Program Space Launch Vehicle, a
combination of rocket motors from the Minuteman II and PegasusXL
launch vehicles, is part of an Air Force effort to use surplus
Minuteman II components for suborbital and orbital spacelift in
support of U.S. Government requirements.  This program is
managed by the Space and Missile Systems Center Test and
Evaluation Directorate located at Kirtland AFB, NM

The goal of this launch is to validate the OSP Space Launch
Vehicle's spacelift capability. To determine the mission's
success, SMC personnel will evaluate data measuring the
successful separation of the payloads and detailing whether the
payloads were deployed in the correct orbit.

Currently having more than 350 Minuteman II ICBMs in storage,
SMC/TE is working with the vehicle contractor, Orbital Sciences
Corporation of Dulles, VA, to demonstrate a reliable, economical
and efficient way to put these missiles to good use.

The OSP Space Launch Vehicle can operate with two fairings
allowing for the launch of oversized payloads.  Using a
multi-payload adapter, the vehicle is capable of launching
several payloads of up to 750 lbs to a 400-nautical mile,
sun-synchronous orbit.  This is roughly 1.5 times the PegasusXL
capability.

The payloads for the upcoming launch are integrated to the Joint
Air Force Academy Weber State University Satellite, or JAWSAT,
multi-payload adapter. The four payloads are the U.S. Air Force
Academy's FalconSat, Arizona State University's ASUSAT, Stanford
University's OPAL satellite and the Air Force Research
Laboratory's Optical Calibration Sphere Experiment.

Also attached to the multi-payload adapter are two experiments:
NASA Marshall Space Flight Center's Plasma Experiment Satellite
and Weber State University's Attitude Controlled Platform.

Originally set to launch Dec 7, launch officials discovered
electrical problems during the mission dress rehearsal Dec 1.
During this test, the C-Band Transponder, a safety device that
notifies operators on the ground that the rocket is still on its
course, did not respond.

Officials had also discovered at that time that the Modular
Avionics Control Hardware (MACH) was not functioning properly.
The MACH is a modular interface box, which controls telemetry,
power transfer and ordnance commands.

After destacking the upper two stages, the PegasusXL, Orion 50
and Orion 38, and the fairing, the C-Band transponder was
replaced, and the cause of the MACH malfunction was corrected
with software modifications.

The second OSP Space Launch Vehicle launch is scheduled for the
spring, carrying the Air Force Research Laboratory's MightySat
II.1 payload.

Spaceport Systems International (SSI) is under contract to
provide launch site and launch control facilities as well as
range support for both launches.

The launch set for Friday will be SSI's first launch.

The Space and Missile Systems Center, located at Los Angeles Air
Force Base, Calif., is the center of technical excellence for
developing and purchasing military space systems and manages
more than $56 billion in contracts. The center has an annual
operating budget of more than $5.5 billion and employs about
3,400 people worldwide.

For more information, see SMC's web page at:

      http://www.laafb.af.mil

The 30th Space Wing, located at Vandenberg AFB, will provide
Range support for the launch.

Range support includes, but is not limited to:

   -- Ensuring safe, reliable and timely launch operations in
   support of DoD and commercial launch operations;

   --Providing a full range of valuable weather services, and:

   --Control and operation of the Western Range for all spacelift
   and ballistic launches.


For more information about the payloads, visit the JAWSAT
website at:

      http://cast.weber.edu/jawsat/jawsat.html

TRW, the OSP Space Launch Vehicle systems engineering and
technical assistance contractor for Space and Missile Systems
Center, will be providing a live web-cast and satellite feed of
the launch.

---------------------------------------------------------------

SATELLITE TV INFO:

Jan 14th, 5 to 11 p.m. EST / 2 to 8 p.m. PST

Telstar 6C /11
Uplink Frequency: 6145
Downlink Frequency: 3920 / Vertical
Arc Position: 93 Degrees West

Those interested in viewing the webcast must first visit this
site to register and receive a password:

      http://www.webcastingtv.com/jawsat/

----------------------------------------------------------------

               Minotaur Launch Technical Data

Launch Window Opens: 2000 JAN 14 18:54:20 PST (JAN 15
                      02:54:20 UTC)
Launch Window Closes: 2000 JAN 14 21:54 PST (JAN 15 05:54 UTC)
Launch Time: 19:04 PST (03:04 UTC)
Launch Pad: SSI launch facility (referred to as "SLC-7"), south
             Vandenberg AFB
Launch Pad Coordinates: Latitude 34 deg. 34 min. north
             Longitude 120 deg. 38 min. west
Launch Azimuth: 220.0 deg.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Vandenberg Launch Net

If the weather is clear Friday evening, ham radio operators in
southern California plan to run "Vandenberg Launch Net" to pass
along Minotaur countdown status and discuss the launch.

The net will be convened at 18:30 PST on the 147.000 MHz Santa
Barbara repeater (131.8 Hz PL, +600 KHz offset).


-- 30 --









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   Jan > Jan 13

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:38:27 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:53:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:30:04 +0000
 >From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain
 >ridges.

 >The story has come a long way since then, as evidenced by some
 >correspondence I received from Dr Jacqueline Mitton, who has for
 >the past 10 years been the media spokesperson for the
 >prestigious Royal Astronomical Society:

 >"I found what you had to say of great interest and your detailed
 >research adds strong weight to the interpretation of Arnold's
 >sighting as birds. I wish I'd known about it before giving my
 >talk at the British Association for the Advancement of Science".

James,

I do enjoy our little bantering about Kenneth Arnold. Thru it
all, its nice to have a point/counterpoint.

However..... no disrespect to Jacqueline Mitton but I question
her response as being "fact". It is merely "hypothesis", a
conclusion made by a person for lack of any other answer.
Perhaps Ms. Mitton is a spokes person for the Royal Astronomical
Society but has she been to Washington State and personally
investigated the Arnold case? Has she been in a plane, retracing
his route of that day with similiar weather coniditions that
existed? Is she an expert on aviation? Is she a pilot?

The Royal Astronomical Society is some 6,000 miles from the
location of the incident. The Washington Astronomical Society
who is right here and believes that Kenneth Arnold witnessed an
extraordinary event back in 1947. Because someone is affliated
with NASA, Astronomical Society, CIA, does not make them an
authority on everything that happens in this world. There are
far too many ungivens in life. For after all we are but "mortal
humans", babies trying to make our way past the must see it,
touch it, feel it or smell it stage of our existence. Logic
still rules our brains.

By questioning and never having an answer helps us learn -- for
in the process we expand our mind.  Putting a definiitive
conclusion to a situation only limits our thinking. Putting
conclusions based on email, letters or phone calls is not a true
investigation.

I will be on a local television show in January/February. I will
be talking about Kenneth Arnold. I plan on bringing up the
pelican theory but as you might guess I will present it as
"someone's" opinion. Perhaps I can even throw in the Boise Boys
Club idea. Opinions..... all opinions.  For in the end, no one
has the right answer.

Kathleen Andersen
Seattle








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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:42:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:03:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:38:27 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:30:04 +0000
 >>From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Kathleen,

 >>The story has come a long way since then, as evidenced by some
 >>correspondence I received from Dr Jacqueline Mitton, who has for
 >>the past 10 years been the media spokesperson for the
 >>prestigious Royal Astronomical Society:

 >>"I found what you had to say of great interest and your detailed
 >>research adds strong weight to the interpretation of Arnold's
 >>sighting as birds. I wish I'd known about it before giving my
 >>talk at the British Association for the Advancement of Science".

 >However..... no disrespect to Jacqueline Mitton but I question
 >her response as being "fact". It is merely "hypothesis", a
 >conclusion made by a person for lack of any other answer.
 >Perhaps Ms. Mitton is a spokes person for the Royal Astronomical
 >Society but has she been to Washington State and personally
 >investigated the Arnold case? Has she been in a plane, retracing
 >his route of that day with similiar weather coniditions that
 >existed? Is she an expert on aviation? Is she a pilot?

 >The Royal Astronomical Society is some 6,000 miles from the
 >location of the incident. The Washington Astronomical Society
 >which is right here and believes that Kenneth Arnold witnessed an
 >extraordinary event back in 1947. Because someone is affliated
 >with NASA, Astronomical Society, CIA, does not make them an
 >authority on everything that happens in this world. There are
 >far too many ungivens in life. For after all we are but "mortal
 >humans", babies trying to make our way past the must see it,
 >touch it, feel it or smell it stage of our existence. Logic
 >still rules our brains.

You're absolutely right.  This is not the first time we've seen
this meaningless quote from "Dr. Jacqueline Mitton ... of the
prestigious Royal Astronomical Society."  Her words are based on
no particular knowledge beyond what Easton has told her, and I
would suspect that, like most astronomers, she has a disdain for
the UFO phenomenon at least as great as her ignorance of it. I
suspect, in other words, that all James Easton did was tell her
what she wanted to hear, with predictable results. Let's hope
that further discussion of the Arnold sighting will be carried
on sans references to Mitton's uninformed beliefs.

Jerry Clark












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   Jan > Jan 13

                               Re: ET Combos?

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 04:42:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:04:06 -0500
Subject: Re: ET Combos?


Sean wrote:

 >>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:26:42 +0000
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: ET Combos?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hi Roy, All

 >>Without bothering to give this matter any real thought. (In
 >>other words, off the top of my head) In the film "Communion"
 >>with Christopher Walken, "Whitley Strieber" describes walking
 >>around in a _UFO_ with three different types of aliens in it. If
 >>you want I'll dig the video out, and see which three are
 >>depicted.

 > Hi All,

Well I have seen the film Sean, and you're right about the
different types involved, but it still doesn't answer my
question.

Any takers?

Roy..










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   Jan > Jan 13

                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 04:57:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:06:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:54:28 -0800
 >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>Our science has advanced many hypothesis' to explain how life
 >>exists and came into existence.  But until we actually go there
 >>and view the beauty of the majesty of creation, we can never
 >>truly appreciate how much we still have to learn.

 >>All the objections to "alien life" throughout the Cosmos, and
 >>particularly to the idea of it having in some way contributed to
 >>our existence or social tree, is remanesent of the "earth is the
 >>center of the universe" ideology of the first half of the first
 >>millinium.


Hi All,

I can imagine there is a slight possibility of someone having
some kind of un-disclosed contact around the World.

Regards,

Roy..

Keep Smiling








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   Jan > Jan 13

                      Travis Walton - An Insider's View

From: Brian Straight <briansxx@gte.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:29:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:28:07 -0500
Subject: Travis Walton - An Insider's View


I received this on the Haunted Scotland list--it doesn't appear
to have been cross-posted to UFO UpDdates.  I forward it on for
any interested parties.

Brian

-----

From: Mystery Magazine <mystery@ic24.net>
To: <HauntedscotlandMM@onelist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:34 PM
Subject: [HauntedscotlandMM] Fw: Travis Walton - An Insider's View


From: E. L. <skeptix@efn.org>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.skeptic,alt.misc.forteana
Sent: 08 January 2000 22:16
Subject: Travis Walton - An Insider's View


The Selling of the Travis Walton "Abduction" Story

Some Background Information

Robert Sheaffer,
Box 10441,
San Jose, CA
95157 USA

March 4, 1993

Australian newspaperman Jeff Wells was a member of the National
Enquirer team that "packaged" the Travis Walton abduction story
for publication.

Walton's story is now the subject of a major motion picture from
Paramount, "Fire in the Sky." Wells is one of seven authors of the
National Enquirer story "Arizona Man Captured by UFO" published Dec. 16,
1975.

Upon his return to Australia, Wells wrote up this insiders' view
of the sordid goings-on for his newspaper column, the identities
of the participants only thinly disguised.

"The kid" is obviously Travis Walton. "The cowboy" is his
brother, Duane Walton. "The professor" is Dr. James Harder of
Berkeley, at that time a leading figure in APRO, the now-defunct
Aerial Phenomena Research Organization, and still a prominent
"abductionist." The polygraph examiner is John J. McCarthy, the
senior polygraph operator in the state of Arizona. This story
was reprinted in the Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 5 Nr. 4 (Summer,
1981), pp. 47-52.

"Profitable Nightmare of a Very Unreal Kind" by Jeff Wells (from
The Age, Melbourne, Australia, 6 January 1979) caption in photo
box: "JEFF WELLS recalls his dealings with a pathetic kid whose
dream never quite got off the ground."

The characters in this UFO story are real even if they appear
more like the inventions of a Hollywood hack. A haunted young
man, a ruthless cowboy, a strange professor, a hard-drinking
psychiatrist, a bunch of reporters and a beautiful girl.

All were thrown together in the desert heat by a close encounter
of the third kind and maybe they did contribute to some
Hollywood thinking. I was there and I can vouch for the motley
human cast - but you will have to make up your own mind about
the extra-terrestrials with fishbowl heads.

Some of the characters are still growing fat repeating their
version of the story in the seemingly limitless American market
for the bizarre.

The so-called facts, the carefully-woven tapestry that has
become the "official story" can now be counted as UFO lore,
pablum for those who turn their heads to the sky in search of
meaning for their lives.

I will never get rich on my version and I only tell it because
of the UFO madness the papers tell me is sweeping this part of
the world. The UFO phenomenon is really rolling here, as it has
rolled for many years, and snowballed into juggernaut
proportions in other countries where it is very big business.

The stronger it gets here the closer the attention that will be
paid to so-called classic cases of UFO encounters.

You may recognize elements of this story among them. If so, you
will realise that my story is a warning that in such cases, even
the most celebrated and supposedly well-documented, there is
nothing so pragmatic as proof.

This incident happened a few years ago and made world headlines.
I was working in San Francisco as a bureau man for a national
weekly which has grown rich and powerful in catering to the
middle-class craving for cancer-cures, Jackie Onassis, Hollywood
gossip, psychic predictions, and like ingredients of the
crumbling cake that is the American mind.

It was naturally a matter of interest that a 22-year-old
forestry worker was missing and that six witnesses had passed
lie detector tests in saying that he had last been seen running
towards a huge UFO.

My paper had offered tens of thousands of dollars to anybody who
could positively prove that aliens had visited our planet - in
the knowledge that exclusive rights could be worth millions.

When, five days later, the young man we came to call "the kid"
stumbled into a small western town, phoned his brother and
claimed he had been kidnapped by the crew of an alien spacecraft
we were ready.

Within an hour I was on a plane to rendezvous in a desert city
with a team of reporters and photographers flying in from Los
Angelesand the East Coast.

At the desert airport I bumped into one of them, a dapper young
Englishman from the L.A. bureau, who briefed me. One reporter
was at the cowboy's home talking money; the kid was inside in a
state of shock.

The office was wiring $1000 to help east the kid's discomfort
and a celebrated UFOlogist, a California professor, was being
flown in, all expenses paid, to lend a hand.

Our immediate task was to bribe the brother with the thousand to
shack up with us in a luxury motel on the outskirts of town, no
names registered, where the rest of Press who were about to
descend and the sheriff, who was calling the whole thing a hoax
and demanding that the kid take a lie-detector test, would not
bother them.

"It isn't going to be easy," said the Englishman as we pocketed
our credit cards and headed for our rented Pontiacs.

"The brother has taken charge and the brother is some kind of
psychopath. The kid is scared to death of him and so is our
reporter."

The cowboy was no disappointment. He was one of the meanest and
toughest-looking men I've ever seen - in his late twenties, a
rodeo professional and amateur light-heavyweight fighter, a
total abstainer, broad-shouldered, T-shirt packed with muscle,
chiselled-down hips, bow legged, eyes full of nails, tense,
unpredictable.

He leaned against a pick-up truck with a gun rack in the cabin and raked
us with beams of cunning and hatred as strong as the flash from the
spacecraft that had pole-axed his brother as the witnesses fled in
terror.

"Nobody is going to laugh at my brother," he said.

Nobody wanted to laugh at his brother, we said. We only wanted
give his brother a chance to tell his story to somebody who
would understand. To prove our bona fides, and to keep away all
those other jackals of the press, who would embarrass the kid
with foolish questions, we would hide them away and pay the kid
a grand to tell his story.

If we liked the story, and it could be properly documented, and
the kid could pass our lie-detector test, we would open up our
cheque books all the way and start talking in five figures.

To our relief the cowboy agreed - but not, he said, because of
the money, because his brother had a true story to tell which
would enlighten the world.

Our first sight of the kid was at dinner in the hotel diningroom
that night. It was a shock.

He sat there mute, pale, twitching like a cornered animal. He
was either a brilliant actor or he was in serious funk about
something.

But the arrival of the professor saved the day.

He was as smooth as butter and he soon had the kid eating out of
his hand.

"You are not alone," he crooned. "There are many people, more
than you would think, who have been chosen to meet them."

Them? I began to wonder about the professor.

The cowboy was so impressed he began to talk about his own UFO
experience when he had been chased by a flying saucer through
the woods as a child.

Within a couple of hours the professor had talked the brothers
out of taking the sheriff's polygraph test and into an hypnosis
session in his room immediately.

It looked as if things were going smoothly enough, with no hint
that we were faced with four days of chaos.

The next day the office announced that the whole story was to be
filmed by a crew from the top-rating CBS muckraker TV show _60
Minutes_.

We were to be on guard because CBS was out to shaft us, my
editor warned.

We were to present a bold front for good footage of dedicated
reporters sparing no expense to bring the public the true story
of one of the most amazing incidents in recorded history.

The kid's fantastic story had been coming out under hypnosis but
the brothers had become very conspiratorial with the professor
and would speak only to him. [1]

The professor seemed to have his own future on the lecture
circuit and the paperback bookstands very much in mind and we
didn't trust him.

So we taped everything and had the CBS crew film the kid's story
given under hypnosis.

It was a tale of little men with heads like fishbowls and skin like
mushrooms.

But suddenly the strain began to tell on the kid and he lapsed
into sobbing bouts. He was falling apart and so was his story.

It necessitated flying in a husband-and-wife team of
psychiatrists from Colorado to tranquilize the kid and keep the
cowboy from exploding. The kid was a wreck and it was all the
psychiatrist could do to get him ready for the lie-detector
expert we had lined up.

The test lasted an hour and I was in the next room fending off
the TV crew when I heard the cowboy scream: "I'll kill the
sonofabitch!" The kid had failed the test miserably. The
polygraph man said it was the plainest case of lying he'd seen
in 20 years but the office was yelling for another expert and a
different result [2].

To head that off we had the psychiatrist put the cowboy and the
kid through a long session of analysis.

Their methods were unique. The next day the four of them
disappeared into a room and soon a waiter was headed there with
two bottles of cognac.

At the end of it the psychiatrists were rolling drunk but they
had their story and the brothers were crestfallen.

It seemed that the kid's father, who had deserted them as a
child, had been a spaceship fanatic and all his life the kid had
wanted to ride in a spacecraft.

He had seen something out there in the woods, some kind of an
eerie light which had triggered a powerful hallucination which
might recur at any time. There was no question of any kidnap by
any mushroom men.

The kid needed medical help and the cowboy swore he would shield
him from further harassment.

Reports began to filter in that the witnesses' lie detector
tests were not much help either - they supported the story that
they had all seen the strange light but not that the strange
light was identifiable as a spaceship.

The CBS crew had left in disgust and I sat down to detail
everything that had happened in a 16-page memorandum designed to
kill the story. It was all over.

I paid the $2000 hotel bill - including a mammoth bar tab to
which the psychiatrists had contributed nobly - for the five
days and we all scattered to the airport.

It had been a lunatic experience from beginning to end, made
more disturbing by the fact that on several occasions, with
coaxings from the professor, I had almost believed that the
story was real.

As I drove to the airport I was never so glad to be leaving a city and
to this day the whole experience there remains in my memory as some kind
of nightmare.

As I neared the airport I switched on the car radio and heard
familiar voices - the kid, the cowboy, and the professor giving
an interview about the kid's shatteing experience on board a
flying saucer.

A few weeks later I picked up the paper I worked for and found
that with the help of the professor it had turned my memorandum
into a sensational front-page story.

The professor was calling me up demanding tapes for his lectures and the
kid was signing contracts for books and TV documentaries.

And so another UFO hero was made.

"Ground Saucer Watch" Memo on the Walton Incident

Conclusions (undated: probably December, 1975)
  "Ground Saucer Watch," a pro-UFO organization, was the very
  first UFO organization on the scene of the Walton "abduction".

In cooperation with Dr. J. Allen Hynek of CUFOS, Dr. Lester
Stewart of GSW began to interview the Walton family while Travis
was still "missing."

They immediately smelled a hoax. These are their conclusions,
without any changes - RS.

1. Walton never boarded the UFO. This fact is supported by the
six witnesses and the polygraph test results. [3]

2. The entire Walton family has had a continual UFO history. The
Walton boys have reported observing 10 to 15 separate UFO
sightings (very high).

3. When Duane was questioned about his brother's disappearance,
he stated that "Travis will be found, that UFO's are friendly."
GSW countered, "How do you know Travis will be found?" Duane
said "I have a feeling, a strong feeling." GSW asked "If the UFO
'captors' are going to return Travis, will you have a camera to
record this great occurrence?" Duane, "No, if I have a camera
'they' will not return."

4. The Walton's mother showed no outward emotion over the 'loss'
of Travis. She said that UFO's will not harm her son, he will be
returned and that UFO's have been seen by her family many times.

5. The Walton's refused any outside scientific help or anyone who
logically doubted the abduction portion of the story.


6. The media and GSW was fair to the witnesses. However, when
the story started to 'fall apart' the Waltons would only talk to
people who did not doubt the abduction story.

7. APRO became involved and criticized both GSW and Dr. Hynek
for taking a negative position on the encounter.

8. The Waltons 'sold' their story to the National Enquirer and
the story was completely twisted from the truth.

RS NOTES

1. In other words, James Harder was using hypnosis to lead
Travis Walton into "remembering" a proper UFO abduction story.
UFOlogists cite the apparent consistencies of these stories as
proof that they are supposedly authentic! But here we glimpse
the real reason behind the apparent similarities.

2. The very existence of this polygraph session with John J.
McCarthy was kept secret by the National Enquirer and by APRO,
with McCarthy ordered never to speak about it. The cover-up was
revealed by Philip J. Klass in June, 1976. The details of the
Walton hoax, and its associated cover-up, can be found in
chapters 18-23 of Klass' book UFOs The Public Deceived (Buffalo,
NY: Prometheus Books, 1983).

3. Apparently GSW thought that in order to have a "genuine" UFO
abduction, the UFO would have to land, and pick up its
passenger. The following appeared in the March/April, 1993 issue
of The Georgia Skeptic, the newsletter of the Georgia Skeptics

"Fire in the Sky" -- The Walton Travesty
by Anson Kennedy

On November 5, 1975, a 22 year old logger by the name of Travis
Walton was allegedly abducted by a UFO near Snowflake, Arizona.
Witnessed by six companions, his experience is possibly the most
unique and controversial alien abduction tale in the short
history of the phenomenon. Now, some seventeen years later,
Paramount Pictures has brought this incredible story to the
silver screen.

On March 12, 1993, Fire in the Sky opened in theaters across the
country.

Scripted by Tracy Torme', who also wrote last year's CBS
miniseries on alien abductions, Intruders, the movie is loosely
based on Walton's book, aptly named The Walton Experience.

"Loosely" because Torme' has significantly altered the portrayal
of Walton's experience on the UFO from what Walton himself
described, because Torme' has created a fictional UFO
investigating organization to replace the real group involved,
and because Torme' combined several real individuals into
"composites," all for the sake of literary license. However,
after examining the full evidence of the case, he may be
forgiven these fictionalizations -- for how can one be too
critical of fictionalizing a work of fiction?

Philip J. Klass, chairman of CSICOP's UFO Subcommittee (which
also includes such noted skeptics as Robert Sheaffer and James
Oberg), investigated the Walton case immediately after it
occurred.

As detailed in his book UFOs: The Public Deceived (Prometheus,
1983), in the months following Walton's disappearance, Klass
found significant evidence of "gross deception."

According to Walton, he and six other loggers were driving from
their work site at Turkey Springs in Sitgreaves National Forest
to their homes in Snowflake about forty-five miles away.
Sometime after 6:00 P.M., both Walton and one of his companions,
Allen Dalis, saw a saucer-shaped object hovering over a slash
pile of cut timber in a clearing.

Walton jumped out of the truck (luckily, he was sitting next to
the door) and ran towards the object, which was emitting a
yellowish light. Suddenly, the object let loose a flash of
brilliant blue-green light which reportedly "blew him [Walton]
back ten feet" according to Walton's friend and employer Mike
Rogers, who was driving the truck at the time.

In a panic, Rogers sped off leaving Walton at the mercy of
whatever controlled the UFO.

Upon reaching Heber (a small town between the work site and
Snowflake), Rogers contacted Undersheriff L.C. Ellison, who met
them in the village.

Rogers and the rest of his crew told Ellison their story;
Ellison then called Navajo County Sheriff Marlin Gillespie.

Gillespie, his deputy Kenneth Coplan, Ellison, Rogers, and two
other crew members (the other three refused to go along)
returned to the site and searched for several hours for Walton.

Approximately 1:30 A.M. on the morning of the sixth (and after
abandoning the search for the night), Coplan and Rogers went to
notify Walton's mother, Mary Kellett, of her son's
disappearance.

Mrs. Kellett's calm response upon being awakened and told her
youngest son had been kidnapped by a UFO was "Well, that's the
way these things happen" and then she proceeded to described two
instances when she and/or her oldest son, Duane, had also seen
UFOs.

Later that morning (approximately 3:00 A.M.)
when Mrs. Kellett told Walton's sister, Mrs. Grant Neff, that "a
flying saucer got him [Travis]," Mrs. Neff surprised Coplan with
how calmly she too took the news.

The rest of the that day, November 6, was taken up by an
extensive search of the area where Walton allegedly disappeared.
Curiously absent from the site was any physical evidence of
anything happening, in spite of the "explosive" force of the
blue-green beam. No blood, no shreds of clothing, no evidence of
the blast effects was found by any of the nearly fifty searchers
involved.

By November 7, law enforcement officials were concentrating on
the possibility that Walton might have been the victim of foul
play at the hands of his coworkers. Walton's other brother
Donald also felt that the UFO story was a cover for something
else. To this end, Rogers and his crew volunteered to take
polygraph examinations the following Monday, November 10.

During the exams, C.E. Gilson of the Arizona Department of
Public Safety asked four "relevant" questions; three of which
dealt with whether Walton had been seriously injured or killed
by the one or more members of the crew. The fourth question,
added at the last minute, was: "Did you tell the truth about
actually seeing a UFO last Wednesday when Travis Walton
disappeared?"

Not surprisingly, the six crew members were unanimous in their
responses: "No" to the first three questions and "Yes" to the
last. Five were judged to be truthful, results on the sixth
(Allen Dalis) were "inconclusive." In his formal written report,
Gilson said, "The polygraph examinations prove that these five
men did see some object that they believe to be a UFO and that
Travis Walton was not injured or murdered by any of these men,
on that Wednesday (5 November 1975).

If an actual UFO did not exist and the UFO is a manmade hoax,
five of these men had no prior knowledge of a hoax. No such
determination can be made of the sixth man whose test results
were inconclusive."

On November 8, Phoenix UFOlogist Fred Sylvanus interviewed both
Rogers and Duane Walton. The tape of this conversation reveals
several striking details. Not once during the entire sixty-five
minute interview did Duane or Rogers express any concern over
Walton's well-being. Rogers described the UFO as "beautiful."

Duane stated he had been seeing UFOs for the past "ten or twelve
years. I've been seeing them all the time." He also stated that
he and Walton had made an agreement to "immediately get as
directly under the object as physically possible" if one of them
ever saw a UFO. Duane went on the state that he felt Walton was
"having the experience of a lifetime."

Later on the 10th, Travis Walton reappeared at a gas station in
Heber. Calling his sister collect after midnight, Walton begged
for help when her husband answered the phone. Grant Neff picked
up Walton's brother Duane and the two drove to Heber to pick up
Walton after informing Mrs. Kellett of his call. The telephone
operator who handled the collect call called Sheriff Gillespie
to let him know of Walton's reappearance; Gillespie then called
Deputy Glen Flake and asked him to keep a look out for the men
returning to Snowflake. Flake missed Neff, Duane, and Walton on
the way in, so he went to Mrs. Kellett's house. It was after
2:00 A.M., but the lights were on and Duane was outside
siphoning gas from one car to another. He made no mention to the
officer that Walton had been found and Flake did not reveal the
information the telephone operator had provided. Duane did not
inform the deputy that Walton was inside Mrs. Kellett's house,
nor did he tell him of the physical examination Duane had
performed on Walton. During the exam, Duane found no bruises,
burns, or evidence of any physical injury except for a red mark
on the inside of Walton's right elbow. Walton's physical
condition was curious given his reported violent encounter with
the blue-green beam. In any case, Duane decided to drive Walton
to a doctor in Phoenix after the deputy left. They made an
abortive attempt to see a hypnotherapist, but Duane backed out
saying that Walton was not ready for regressive hypnosis. It was
not until the afternoon of November 11 that a cursory exam by
two doctors was performed. Like Duane, they found no evidence of
physical injury, except for the mark on Walton's arm. One of the
doctors, Howard Kandell, stated it "was compatible with a
puncture wound such as when somebody takes blood from you." He
went on to note that Walton claimed he had not noticed it
before, in spite of the fact that both Duane and the
hypnotherapist had seen the mark earlier. More telling, though,
were the results of the urine analysis performed on a sample
from Walton. It showed no trace of drugs, but also no trace of
acetone. After going without food for more than a couple of
days, the body begins to break down its own fat. The waste
product of this is acetone, and it is excreted in the urine. If
Walton had been without food for several days, his urine should
have shown some traces of acetone. Also, Walton later claimed to
have lost ten pounds during his missing five days. The doctors
who examined Walton were members of APRO, the Aerial Phenomena
Research Organization, and it was at this time that APRO became
intimately involved in the case. It is also at this time that
the National Enquirer became involved. Coral Lorenzen, who had
made the arrangements for the doctor's examination, received a
call from the National Enquirer about the case. She convinced
the paper to pay Duane and Walton's expenses while being
"sequestered" in a local hotel in exchange for exclusive rights
to the story. When Duane finally called Sheriff Gillespie to
inform him of Walton's reappearance, he told the sheriff they
were in Tucson where Walton was receiving a check-up. He changed
the story in a later phone call, saying they were at a private
home in Phoenix. At Gillespie's insistence, Duane reluctantly
agreed to let him interview Walton. The Walton brothers refused
to allow Gillespie to record the interview, but Travis did agree
to take a polygraph exam later in the week. Seven days after
Walton had disappeared and two days after his sudden
reappearance, his story was hitting the local newspapers. The
Tucson Arizona Daily Star quoted Duane as saying, in part: "I'm
not a UFO buff and neither is my brother" -- this flatly
contradicts Duane's earlier statements to UFOlogist Fred
Sylvanus. Gillespie had scheduled Walton's polygraph examination
for Friday, November 14, but Walton did not show up. The excuse
was that the press had "laid siege" and Duane did not feel
Walton was ready to face the press. This is curious, since a
team of reporters from the National Enquirer had been
interviewing Walton already. Also, Duane could have had the
polygrapher come to the hotel where Walton was staying if he was
concerned about exposing Walton to the media.

Some of the most damning evidence that the entire case was a
hoax surrounds the various polygraph examinations and the
behavior of the principles involved, Duane and Travis Walton,
and Mike Rogers. APRO announced on February 7, 1976, that both
Travis and Duane had passed an exam given by George Pfeiffer,
who worked for Tom Ezell and Associates. But that test was
flawed in a number of respects: Pfeiffer allowed Walton to
dictate a number of the questions he asked. While it is not
uncommon for polygraphers to allow the test subjects and/or
sponsors to outline the general area to be probed, allowing the
subject to dictate specific questions violates the basic
principles of polygraphy and should invalidate the test results.
Also, Pfeiffer was relatively inexperienced, having been
practicing only two years. This inexperience expressed itself
when he judged Walton's "No" answer to the question "Before
November 5, 1975, were you a UFO buff?" to be truthful. Walton's
answer directly contradicted information provided by both his
mother and brother Duane and by Walton himself during an earlier
psychological examination.

Later in March of 1976, when Pfeiffer's employer Tom Ezell had
reviewed the charts, he concluded that it was impossible to
determine if Walton and Duane were answering the test questions
truthfully. Ezell stated in a letter to Phil Klass: "Upon review
of this examination, I find that to me it is not acceptable. In
the first place I would not be a party to an examination in
which the subject dictated the questions to be asked ... Because
of the dictation of the questions to be asked, this test should
be invalidated. Also, upon examining the resultant charts, I
find that I cannot give an opinion one way or another" whether
the subjects had been truthful or not. Yet this is the
examination to which Walton refers when he states he has passed
a lie detector test.

But the real "bombshell," as Klass describes it in his book, was
the fact that Walton had failed an earlier polygraph examination
miserably and this information had been suppressed by APRO,
which had been proclaiming the Walton case "one of the most
important and intriguing in the history of the UFO phenomena."
This test was administered by John McCarthy, who with twenty
years of experience was one of the most respected examiners in
the state of Arizona. His conclusion: "Gross deception."
Proponents of the Walton case never mention this examination.

If the case is a hoax, what possible motivation could Walton and
the others have? Two possibilities have been identified: every
year, the National Enquirer offered a multi-thousand dollar
award for the "Best Case" of the year (up to $100,000 for
"positive proof" of ET). Walton and the other crew members
divided a $5000 award from the National Enquirer. The second,
and more compelling, motive involved a contract Rogers had with
the U.S. Forest Service. Rogers had contracted with the Service
to thin out the Turkey Springs area over a year before Walton's
experience. He won the contract when he submitted the low bid of
$24.70/acre in June of 1974. The contract term was 200 working
days ("working days" to allow for bad weather and the long
mountain winter) to thin 1277 acres, later reduced to 1205
acres. Rogers was seriously behind schedule and in fact had
received an eighty-four day extension (accompanied with a $1.00
per acre penalty for missing the completion date). Only five
days of this extension remained at the time of Walton's alleged
abduction. At the time of Walton's disappearance, Rogers was in
serious trouble: he had over a hundred acres left to finish in
five days or he would default on the contract and lose some
$2500 -- money sorely needed to get through the winter months --
or he request a second extension and accept another penalty for
failing to finish on schedule a second time.

Just two weeks prior to Walton's disappearance, NBC-TV aired a
two hour movie featuring the abduction tale of Betty and Barney
Hill. Rogers has acknowledged watching the first portion of the
movie, the portion that detailed the Hills' "abduction." Klass
speculates in his book that "to a man facing two unattractive
alternatives on his Turkey Springs contract, the account of the
Hills' 'UFO-abduction' could easily suggest a third." By making
Turkey Springs the site of an alien abduction, Rogers could
claim his men were too afraid to return and continue working --
providing an "act of God" that could result in contract
termination with no penalty and full payment to Rogers.

During the months after Klass revealed the results of his
investigation, Rogers and Walton entered into a lengthy
negotiation with him to have the flawed polygraph exams re-
administered -- this time with a mutually acceptable,
independent polygrapher. Rogers issued a "challenge" to Klass:
Duane and Travis Walton and Rogers would agree to be retested by
"a mutually acceptable examiner of high standing and proper
credentials" and that, if all parties passed the tests, Klass
would pay all costs involved; if any of them failed, Klass would
be "reimbursed." Klass agreed in principle with most of the
conditions, however as time progressed and negotiations
continued it became clear that Rogers was engaging in delaying
tactics and was, in fact, doing everything possible to not be
retested. Ultimately, none of the principles in the Walton case
was given new polygraph examinations.

And there the case laid for seventeen years, with proponents
still proclaiming it one of the best documented abductions in
history and skeptics decrying the multiple instances of
intentional deception which imply "hoax." Then comes Fire in the
Sky and a media blitz to promote the "true story." Travis Walton
has made appearances on national talk shows (from CNBC's Tom
Snyder show to Larry King Live on the night of the movie's
premier), tabloid television shows (such as Hard Copy and Fox's
Sightings), radio call-in shows, and has even appeared via
satellite on local news programs (the week of the premier,
Walton was interviewed on WAGA Channel 5's Good Day Atlanta
morning show).

In the February, 1993, issue of the Mutual UFO Network's MUFON
UFO Journal, Travis Walton "takes time to address his critics."
Describing himself as a "naive country boy" (Walton hardly
seemed naive when he accused Phil Klass of being a government
disinformation agent on Larry King Live - a charge for which he
has absolutely no proof) Walton tells of his shock at the
"attacks" he received from skeptics such as Klass and repeats
throughout his article that Klass' claims had been refuted time
and time again. Unfortunately, Walton provides little
information in the article which actually refutes Klass'
evidence; instead he offers tantalizing tidbits which seem
intended more to enduce the reader to buy a copy of his newly
revised book (whose title he has changed to, oddly enough, Fire
in the Sky) than to actually "set the record straight."


Walton claims that the various charges against him "starkly
contradict each other" [emphasis in original], but provides no
specific examples of these contradictions. He says, "So the
irony is that when one's foremost detractor [Klass] makes an
internally inconsistent scattergun assault, he is actually
making a perverse sort of endorsement because it says loud and
clear that the detractor himself doesn't believe that any of his
attacks has sufficient merit to stand alone." It is a perverse
sort of logic which will go through such convolutions in an
effort to justify a failing position.

In a recent issue of his Skeptics' UFO Newsletter, Klass wonders
if Walton will refute the fact that his first polygraph exam
indicated "gross deception," or that his mother was abnormally
calm upon hearing word of his disappearance, or that he - along
with his mother and brother - had a long history of seeing UFOs
prior to November 5, 1975, or that the lie detector test he did
pass was seriously flawed. The list can go on and on.

So what can we make of this long and twisted tale? At the time,
the Walton experience seemed little more than yet another in a
long line of elaborate hoaxes. It continued to have its
supporters among the UFO community, but enough questions
surrounded it that few considered it "proof positive." Now, a
multi-million dollar movie billed as a "true story" is in
theaters across the country. Prior to its release, UFO fans were
predicting how this would "raise the public's awareness" of UFOs
in general and the alien abduction phenomenon in particular. Of
course, they said they same thing about last year's _Intruders_,
which seems to have had little impact on the public's perception
of these things. We expect that _Fire in the Sky_ will sway the
public just as much.

Unfortunately, we also expect that Hollywood will make more of
such "fiction as truth" productions. The bottom line for the
public is to always view these productions with a critical eye.

Anson Kennedy Internet: anson@netcom.com
VP, Georgia Skeptics Compu$erve: 71167,2435
(speaking only for myself, however) Prodigy(sm): DVCW08A







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   Jan > Jan 13

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 2

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:55:17 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:20:48 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 2


      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 2
January 13, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

LARGE UFO PHOTOGRAPHED
BY A MISSOURI POLICEMAN

       "In the past few days, Millstadt police officer
Craig Stevens has slept little, taken countless phone
messages from national experts and heard all of the
little green men jokes his fellow officers can maintain."
      "It's amusing--to a point, he said."
      "'It's not like I'm the only one who saw it, and I'm
Joe Blow from the local bar who just stepped out drunk,
y'know?'"
      "Stevens, of Highland (Missouri), and at least three
other officers from the Lebanon, Shiloh and Dupo
police departments said they saw something in the
sky early Wednesday (January 5, 2000))--something
that looked like a UFO."
      "Shaped like an arrowhead, sprinkled with dimmer
lights all over its surface and three brighter lights on its
tail, the thing made its northeast-to-southwest flight
across the Metro East area about 4 a.m."
      "The first report came in to Highland police from
the owner of a miniature golf course.  He was driving
into Lebanon, so police contacted Lebanon authorities.
The officers there guffawed (laughed--J.T.) at the
disaptcher.  But he (the dispatcher) spotted the thing
heading toward Shiloh, where an officer there spotted it."
      "Stevens, sitting in his patrol car in Millstadt on his
overnight shift, heard the radio chatter and drove to the
north end of town.  He scanned the sky but saw only
airplane lights."
      "Then he looked west."
      "Wow! hethought, jumping out of his car.  This
thing's huge!"
      "He said it moved slowly like a blimp, about
1,000 feet (300 meters) off the ground.  It was
about two stories high (20 feet or 6 meters--J.T.)
and about three times as long.  In addition to the
three lights in the back, dimmer lights sprinkled the
entire surface, almost, as he described it, like a
'starfield camoflauge.'"
      "He grabbed his Polaroid camera and snapped a
shot.  The object headed toward Dupo, and Stevens
radioed dispatch.  The dispatcher radioed back,
reporting an officer there (in Dupo) spotted it, too."
      "The Polaroid (photo) didn't develop well in the
cold, and the image only shows the three bright
lights.  At the station, Stevens made an unofficial
police report and sketched a likeness of what he
saw."
      "'It's been driving me nuts since I've seen it,'
he said, 'I haven't been able to sleep for the last
day and a half.'"
      "The only calls that Scott Air Force Base
received about the object were from the media,
a spokesman said Saturday (January 8, 2000).
And the military base's control tower is closed
at that hour."
      "Stevens has also fielded calls from the media,
science institutes, UFO experts, and a former FBI
man who had 'a hundred questions.'"  (See the
St. Louis Post-Dispatch for January 9, 2000,
"Police officers in St. Clair County report seeing
early morning UFO" by Valerie Schremp.  Many
thanks to ufologists Kenny Young and Ron
Schaffner for forwarding this newspaper article.)
(Editor's Comment: Strange to say, the officer
has the same name as the late Craig Stevens,
the actor who starred in the 1959 TV series
Peter Gunn.  There's no doubt that Missouri is
currently in the grip of a UFO flap.  Read on.)

"MISSING TIME" REPORTED
IN MISSOURI FAMILY'S UFO
ENCOUNTER

      On Christmas Day, December 25, 1999, a
Missouri family of four was driving home on
Interstate Highway I-44.  They stopped at a
highway rest area near the town of Mount
Vernon, Missouri (population 3,726), located
about 27 miles (43 kilometers) west of
Springfield.
      "While out of the car, the family began to
notice a strange buzzing and humming noise,"
reported Brian Adams of the Ozarks Area
UFO Research Group. "The son looked up to
see a dark chevron-shaped craft hovering just
above the trees in the starlit sky."
      "The son told his dad to look up, and the
rest of the family looked up as well."
      "The next thing the family recalls is that
they were waking up in their beds at home the
next morning."  Their home is 16 miles from
the I-44 highway rest area.  "Their car was
parked in the garage with their baggage."  They
found the Christmas presents they'd had in the
car neatly stacked under their Christmas tree.
      "They described the craft as no bigger than
a small fighter jet in size, but it didn't have any
lights on.  Only the mother didn't recall hearing
the unusual noise from the craft."
      "The father also said his eyes were unusually
light-sensitive when he woke up.  But otherwise
no body markings were discovered by the family."
      The family is concerned about this incident
except "for the son, who said it was 'cool.'"
(Many thanks to Brian Adams for this report.)

MYSTERIOUS SKY BOOM
JOLTS A TOWN IN OHIO

      "Bloomville, OH--Some residents here were
ready to change their town's name to
BOOMville early yesterday."
      "A mysterious explosion shook the Seneca
County village and startled residents just
after midnight" on Monday, January 3, 2000.
      "So far the cause of the boom is unexplained.
Officials are investigating."
      "Ear witnesses said the night was quiet when
suddenly--Ka-Boom!--a single explosion was felt
and heard by residents within a mile-wide circle.
Resident Nicole Phillips said it rattled her whole
house."
      "'Scary.  It was very scary,' Rene Bernal,
another resident, said, 'It felt like our house was
hit by something.  The walls shook.'"
      "'My daughter, Julia, was on the phone, and
she came running out of her room yelling that she
thought something was coming through her walls.'"
(Editor's Comment:  Now that is very interesting!
Three years ago, a woman in Santiago de Chile
reported seeing an alien come through a circle
of light which appeared on the wall of her
apartment.)
      "Mrs. Bernal's husband, Tim, ran outside.  He
and a neighbor searched but found nothing."
      "The Bernals were among many who called
police, prompting Chief Howard Minzer to check the
entire village on foot.  'He found no flashes, no power
outages and no fires,' said police officer Mark
Lawson."
      "Officer Lawson had just arrived home when he
felt the blast at his midtown residence."
      "'It was a very, very loud explosion, definitely
somewhere in town,' he said, 'But nothing is damaged
in the village, and no one has reported anything.'"
      "'We have no idea what it could have been.
It's a mystery.'"
      "Col. A.J. Feucht, commander of the Ohio Air
National Guard 180th Fighter Wing, based at Toledo
Express Airport, said no flight by supersonic or any
other aircraft was in the air at the time."
      Bloomville (population 949) is on Ohio Route 19
approximately 35 miles (56 kilometers) southwest
of Sandusky.  (See the Toledo, Ohio Blade for
January 4, 2000, "Explosive sound shatters quiet
of Bloomsville night" by Mike Tressler.  Many thanks
to ufologists Kenny Young and Jerry Hamm for
forwarding this newspaper article.)

GALILEO COMPLETES
ANOTHER FLYBY OF EUROPA

      The robot spacecraft Galileo "swooped past
Jupiter's frozen moon Europa on Monday," January 3,
2000, "but apparently did not experience any
computer problem's from the planet's (Jupiter's)
intense radiation."
      In December 1999, Galileo celebrated the
fourth anniversary of its arrival in Jovian space.
The spacecraft went into orbit around Jupiter in
December 1995 and has had several successful
encounters with the gas giant's many moons.
      On Monday, January 3, Galileo "'flew within
220 miles (352 kilometers) of the moon's surface,'
said project manager Jim Erickson of NASA's
Jet Propulsion Laboratory."
      "'Europa is really just on the edge of the area
we consider hazardous from the radiation point of
view,' he said, 'We really thought this one would
go pretty well, and it has so far.'"
      "The spacecraft's computer and instruments
appeared to be operating normally.  Data collected
during the pass was stored aboard the probe's
computer to be relayed back to Earth over the
next several weeks."
      "Galileo measured Europa's magnetic fields
in an attempt to detect disturbances from a
suspected liquid ocean beneath the moon's icy
crust.  Some scientists believe life could survive
in a liquid ocean beneath the frozen surface."
      The year 2000 promises to be a busy one
for Galileo.  Next up is an encounter with
Jupiter's fiery volcanic moon Io on February 22.
The spacecraft will fly by the moon Ganymede
on May 28 and again on December 28.
      Right now the hot gossip in NASA is talk
of a "team-up" with the robot spacecraft Cassini,
which is now approaching Jupiter.  Cassini will
bypass the gas giant on December 30 on its
way to Saturn.  There's talk about a joint mission
of observation, utilizing both spacecraft, at the
end of the year.
(Editor's Comment:  If there are subsurface oceans
on Europa and Callisto, and assuming that no space
catastrophe has altered the enviornment of either
moon, then it's possible that those oceans may
contain life similar to that which flourished on Earth
during the Cambrian Period 500 million years ago.
Species such as Wiwaxia, Opabinia, sea pens and
trilobites, now extinct on Earth, may be alive and
thriving on Europa and Callisto.)

BOUNCING WHITE UFO SEEN
NEAR WASILLA, ALASKA

      On Saturday, January 1, 2000, Tracy Y. was at
her home in a wooded area near Wasilla, Alaska
(population 4,028) when she "woke up at 3:30 a.m.
because i felt like I was being watched."
      "The bright white light was outside my window
at a distance," she reported.  "I tried to ignore it, but
I had the overwhelming curiosity to try to detect
movement.  Every time I had myself convinced that
it was a star or planet, it would eventually move up,
down, left, right."
      "It also seemed to go from a bright white light to
a faded light whenever it started to move down.  I
feel like it came a little closer.  But I waved goodbye
as the chills ran through me, and I went to bed."
      In terms of shape, the object "I believed to be
spherical.  There definitely was a bright white light
if not two or three.  I could also make out a faint
red light.  This particular object seemed to be
floating eastward" toward Palmer.
      Wasilla is located 30 miles (48 kilometers)
north of Anchorage.  (Email Form Report)

OUR LADY OF THE MEKONG?

      According to the South China Morning Post,
Vietnam had a series of sightings of the Blessed
Virgin Mary, formerly known as Miriam bat-Joachim,
during October 1999.
     Loc Ninh was one of the cities reported to have
experienced a Marian apparition.  The Post reported
"hundreds of thousands gathering at religious
festivals and rushing to catch the latest manifestations
of the Virgin Mary at sites around the country."  (See
the South China Morning Post for November 2, 1999.
Many thanks to Trinh for this story.)

PYRAMIDOLOGIST DISCOVERS
ANOMALIES IN SAQQARA

      Engineer Christopher Dunn, author of the book
The Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient
Egypt, uncovered some strange anomalies in
the Pyramid of Khafre in Egypt during his on-site
investigation there.
      In his new article, "Return to the Giza Power
Plant," Dunn relates how he traveled to Egypt in
May 1999 "as a participant in the conference
'Egypt in the New Millenium'" and had the
opportunity to examine the large granite boxes
called sarcophagi.
      "This year, in my backpack I carried a
precision-ground 12-inch long parallel, or straight
edge, precise to within .001 inch.  i also had a
precision toolmaker's solid square," he wrote,
"Also in my tool kit was a set of precision Starret
radius gauges for inspecting the machined radius
that makes the transition from one surface or
contour to another."
      Although prevented from entering the
Serapeum by Egyptian guards, Dunn did manage
to enter Khafre's pyramid and examined the black
granite sarcophagus inside.
      "For those interested, I slid this" 12-inch straight
"edge along the smooth interior of the granite box
with my flashlight shining behind it and demonstrated
its exact precision...Modern machine axes are aligned
orthogonally or exactly perpendicular to each other to
assure accuracy.  This state assures us that the
corners cut into an object on the machine are square
and true."
      "I wasn't expecting the corners of the sarcophagus
to be perfectly square, for perfection is extremely
difficult to achieve.  However, I was not prepared for
the degree of perfection I found."
      "I was flabbergasted as I slid my precision square
along the top of the parallel (I used the top of the
parallel to raise the square above the corner radius--
C.D.) and it fit perfectly on the adjacent surface."
      "'Bloody Hell!' I exclaimed, as the significance
of this find came over me."
      "On three corners (of the sarcophagus) the
square sat flush against both surfaces.  One corner
had a gap that was detected by the light test, though
it was porbably only about .001 inch."
      "So not only do we have an artifact with perfectly
flat surfaces, the inside corners are also perfectly
square.  What else is significant about this
so-called sarcophagus?  The corners themselves."
      In the article, Dunn explained how back in
February 1999, Dr. Zahi Hawass, Egypt's Director-
General of the Giza antiquities, appeared on a
FOX TV special and showed anchorwoman Suzie
Koppel "the methods the ancients used to create
granite artifacts.  This method involves bashing
the granite with a round (dolorite) ball until the
desired shape is achieved," Dunn wrote.
      "Creating the corner radius of the box inside
Khafre's pyramid using such primitive methods
would have been impossible."
      "Checking this corner radius with my radius
gauges, I started with a half-inch radius and had
to keep working my way down in size until
selecting the correct one."
      "The inside corner radius of the box inside
Khafre's pyramid checked 3/32 inch.  The
radius at the bottom, where the floor of the box
met the wall, checked 7/16 inch."
      "It should go without saying," Dunn added,
"that you cannot fit an 8-inch (dolomite) ball
into a corner with a 3/32 radius, or even a
1-inch radius."  (See the magazine Atlantis
Rising Number 21, "Return to the Giza Power
Plant" by Christopher Dunn, pages 33 and 66.)

from the UFO Files...

1875: STRANGE ENCOUNTER
           ON MOUNT MONCAYO

      For many years afterward, the death of shepherd
Gregorio Murillo following his strange trip through
the mysterious caverns inside Mount Moncayo
was the talk of northern Spain.  (For details, see
UFO Roundup, volume 5, number 1.)  The tale
was repeated over and over again in the city of
Soria and in nearby villages such as Agreda.
      Two generations passed.  (My date of 1875 is a
guesstimate--J.T.)  Usually, the story was told by
an old man enjoying the afternoon sun near the
fountain in Agreda's central plaza.  And he always
found an appreciative audience, usually made up of
teenaged girls coming to the fountain to fill their
family water jars.
      One day, an old-timer made the mistake of
telling Marta and Magdalena Esquivel.
      "Marta and Magdalena were sisters.  Orphans
from early childhood, they were living wretchedly
under the protection of a kinswoman of their mother.
A kinswoman who had taken them in for charity and
who at every step made them feel, by her taunting
and humiliating words, the weight of their obligation."
      "Of those two girls, the elder, who seemed to be
some twenty years old, was called Marta; and the
younger, who had not yet finished her sixteenth
year, Magdalena."
      "When they reached the threshold of their home
and had set down their water jars on the stone bench
by the door, Marta said to Magdalena, 'And do you
believe in the marvels of the Moncayo?'"
      "'Yes,' answered Magdalena simply.  'I believe it
all.  But you, perhaps, have doubts?'"
      'Oh, no!  I  too believe everything--everything
that I wish to believe.'"
      Magdalena wondered what her older sister
meant by that.  Later, when they were cleaning up
after dinner, she raised the issue again.
      By way of reply, Marta said, "Tomorrow, when
we fetch the water, let's go to the spring up on
the mountain."
      "Why?" Magdalena asked.
      "Because I want to look for the entrance to
that cave."
      "Marta!  Have you lost your mind!?  You heard
what happened to that shepherd."
      "Exactly!  And that's why I want to go.  The
cave is brimming with jewels."  Marta's eyes had
a ferocious gleam.  "You heard what the old man
said.  A handful of those gems would have made
Gregorio Murillo the richest man in Castilla!"
      "What about los gnomos? (the gnomes)"
      "To hell with them!"  Marta made a brisk rude
gesture.  "I'd sooner look at a gnome than Tia
(Aunt) Carmela's ugly face another day!"
      Magdalena bit her lower lip.  "But what if you
found those jewels?  What would you do?"
      "Go to Madrid!"  Marta snapped.  "Paris!
Rome!  Some place with bright lights and easy
living.  All they have here is poverty."  Turning
away abruptly, she added, "I'm going to the
spring tomorrow.  You can do as you wish."
      Late the following afternoon, the Esquivel
girls hiked up the narrow trail to Mount Moncayo.
The snow-capped peak rises to a height of
2,332 meters (7,695 feet) and is 100 kilometers
(60 miles) west of Zaragoza.
      Marta walked with a bold and decisive stride,
the empty water jar under her arm.  Magdalena
brought up the rear, all the while thinking,
This is NOT a good idea!
      Soon they arrived at a natural artesian
spring in a narrow wooded arroyo.  While the
younger girl filled their water jars, Marta explored
both sides of the gulch, looking for the elusive
cave entrance.
      "As the hours went on, that unceasing
sound of the air and the water began to produce
in them a strange exaltation, a kind of dizziness
that, clouding the eyes and humming in the ears,
seemed to confuse them utterly.  (My emphasis--
J.T.  Note the usual "dreamworld" altered state
of consciousness similar to that reported by
many UFO abductees.)
      "Then as one hears in dreams, the far vague
echo of speech, they seemd to perceive, amid
those nameless noises, inarticulate sounds...
then words repeated over and over, always the
same; then disconnected, inconsequent phrases
without order or meaning..."
      "While her sister, drawn on and on as if by a
spell, was leaning over the margin of the fountain
to hear better, Magdalena was instinctively moving
away, withdrawing from the steep rocks..."
      Then she noticed something strange overhead.
"Seeing the astral splendors overhead," the
younger girl remarked, "These are the halos of the
invisible angels who have us in their keeping."
      Among the weird voices they heard was a
sibilant whisper that said, "Water licks the earth
and lives in the mud.  I roam the ether and fly in
limitless space.  Follow the impulses of thy
heart..."
      "Wind and wave were hushed, and there
appeared the gnome."
      "The gnome (alien?) was like a transparent
pigmy, a sort of dwarf all made of light, as a
Will-o'-the-wisp; it laughed hugely but without
sound, and leapt from rock to rock, making one
dizzy with its antics."
      "Marta had seen the gnome and was
following him with a bewildered gaze...and when
the diabolical spirit darted away at last into the
craggy wilds of the Moncayo, like a running
flame, shaking out sparks from its hair; she
felt an irresistible attraction and rushed after it
in frantic chase."
      "Magdalena!"  Obeying the whispery voice,
"Magdalena, moving step by step like a sleep-
walker guided in slumber by a friendly voice,
followed the zephyr, which was softly blowing
over the plain."
      "Magdalena returned to the hamlet pale and
full of amazement."
      "They waited for Marta all night."
      "On the afternoon of the following day, the
village girls found a broken water jar at the margin
of the fountain in the grove.  It was Marta's water
jar.  Nothing more was ever known of her."
      Marta Esquivel was never seen again.  And
the legend of Mount Moncayo grew.  (See the
bookRomantic Legends of Spain by Gustavo
Adolfo Becqer, Thomas Y. Crowell and Co.,
New York, N.Y., 1909, pages 208 to 213.)

ROUNDUP CORRIGENDA:  Steve Kaeser had a
couple of corrections for our feature, "A Century of
UFOs," which appeared in UFO Roundup, volume 4,
number 36 two weeks ago.
      1964--Patrolman Lonnie Zamora sighted the
landed UFO in Socorro, New Mexico, not in Utah.
      1966--The college girls saw their UFO at
Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan, USA.

      We'll be back in seven days with more UFO and
paranormal news from around the planet, brought to
you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup.
See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites
or in newsgroups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue in which the item first appeared.
*********************************************************

IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------

http://www.thehungersite.com

Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.
There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.
Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!
*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>

UFO Roundup: http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin
and AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences
also available, plus archives of Filer's Files.









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:45:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:24:42 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 01:16:01 -0500 (EST)
 >To: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >hence the Pleiades also being called "The Seven
 >Sisters" for the 7 visible, resolvable stars in the cluster<

David,

Last night when I looked, I could only make out six stars,  with
unaided eyes. I live in the mountains, and away from any town
lights so have quite a good view of the night sky.

Yes, they are called the 'Seven Sisters' but at one time these
seven must have been much more distinct since younger myths try
to account for the missing seventh sister. A typical version
tells how one of the sisters lost her virginity and had to "hide
her light" from her companions.

"It is remarkable that so many nations speak of them as seven
sisters although only six stars are clearly visible.  All
legends therefore have a postscript to account for the missing
seventh."

               - B. Ernst & T.E. deVries 'Atlas of the Universe'


Could it be that at one time, many moons ago, the Pleiades were
different than they are now. How do we account for this
circumstance?

Ed








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:57:31 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:30:45 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:45:33 +1100
 >From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Further to what Ed has posted, the Pleiades were significant to
 >the Maya. On the solstice day of May 20, 2012, at Chichen Itza,
 >the rare event of the Sun passing through the zenith at midday
 >and the Pleiades passing through the zenith at midnight will
 >occur. The date on which the Sun and the Pleiades pass through
 >the zenith depends upon latitude and changes with precession.

Hello again Bill and everyone.

Summer solstice, the furthest north the Sun gets in our sky, is
aways on June 21 (the same as a dozen years ago or a dozen years
into the future). When you say "... the solstice day of May 20,
2012, at Chichen Itza", I take it you mean when the sun is at
the zenith or it highest elevation in the sky.

Since Chichen-Itza is at latitude 20.7 degrees north, for the
Sun to be at the zenith point over Chichen-Itza it must also
have a declination in the sky of plus 20.7 degrees. According to
my ephemeris for the Sun, this occurs about three days _after_
May 20. Close but no cigar.

Both the Sun _and_ the Pleiades would be close to each other and
high in the sky over Chichen-Itza on May 20 at midday, _not_ at
midnight. Your "rare event" happens every year. No big deal.

<snip>

 >Also, on May 20, 2012, there will be a total solar eclipse that
 >will sweep across central and western North America. So the Sun
 >and the Pleiades will pass through the zenith along with the
 >Moon on May 20, 2012 at Chichen Itza in a rare precessional
 >alignment.

<snip>

There is _no_ total solar eclipse of the Sun for May 20, 2012,
just an annular one where no more than 94% of the sun will be
occulted by the Moon. Furthermore, this solar eclipse will _not_
be visible in the sky over Chichen Itza at all but will be seen
over Japan and by people on cruise ships in the northeastern
Pacific Ocean.

Never-the-less, the Moon will be very near the Sun in the midday
sky over Chichen Itza, as happens once every month anyway, but
the Pleiades, which have a declination in the sky of plus 24
degrees will _not_ be aligned with the Sun and Moon.

The Pleiades will be about 24 - 20.7 = 3.3 degrees (or about 7
Moon diameters) further north. Nothing out of the ordinary here
either. As a friend in the German military liked to say, close
is only good in horseshoes and hand grenades.  ;o)

 >FARMERS in the high Andes Mountains may have been able to
 >predict El Nino for centuries by observing whether clouds dimmed
 >the light from a cluster of stars called the Pleiades.

 >A potato farming tradition handed down from one generation to
 >the next teaches that the brightness of stars in the
 >constellation during June roughly predicted the rainfall during
 >the growing season from October to May.

I have astronomer friends who observe the sky from world class
telescopes on the Andes Mountains because of the excellent
seeing, transparency and darkness of the night sky found there
who will disagree with you. From meteorological daytime cloud
data, every day could be overcast during El Nino years and still
produce the _same_ cloudless night skies as on non-El Nino
years.

Furthermore, the Pleiades are simply a very prominent star
cluster and _not_ a constellation. They are also _not_ visible
in June because of their close proximity to the Sun - so how
would the potato farmers see them without going blind?

Regretfully, there were few facts in your e-mail and nothing
that convinced me of even a remote association between the
Pleiades and E.T.s.

Nick Balaskas










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                           Phil Imbrogno To Speak

From: Ellen Littleford <dana0817@wtco.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:33:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:37:08 -0500
Subject: Phil Imbrogno To Speak


Philip Imbrogno, astronomer, principal investigator and
co-author (with the late Dr. J Allen Hynek) of one of the
classic UFO books, 'Night Siege: The Hudson Valley UFO
Sightings', will speak, sign books, answer questions and talk
about his latest research and his upcoming book at the next
Western Massachusetts MUFON meeting on Sunday, Jan. 23 at 2PM.

Fairfield Mall,
Route 33,
Chicopee, MA  (EXIT 5 Off Mass Turnpike).

Non-members invited -- $7 donation

Western Mass web site http://www.westmassmufon.net









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                     NIDS Investigates Officer Sighting

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:38:51 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:24:29 -0500
Subject: NIDS Investigates Officer Sighting


Greetings list -

From: http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-other/2000/jan/13/509709104.h
tml

Local UFO team returns home after studying a reported sighting
By Kim Smith
LAS VEGAS SUN

Two members of a Las Vegas UFO research organization returned
home Wednesday after spending five days investigating a reported
Jan. 5 sighting of a UFO near the Missouri-Illinois border.

The National Institute for Discovery Science sent John Velier, a
former FBI agent, and Roger Pinson, a retired police officer, to
the St. Louis area Friday, Colm Kelleher, deputy administrator
for the institute, said.

The institute was founded in 1995 by Las Vegas businessman
Robert Bigelow, who wanted to see UFOs, cow mutilations and
paranormal phenomena studied by people who would use scientific
methods, Kelleher said.

Five retired law enforcement officers and four doctorate-level
scientists work out of the Las Vegas office, and an additional
15 doctorate-level scientists who work with the institute are
located around the country, Kelleher said.

"Our philosophy is to use scientific methods to get facts. We
are not trying to push an agenda," Kelleher said.

Velier and Pinson spoke with many of the people who reported
seeing a two-story high, arrowhead-shaped object make its way
over the Illinois towns of Lebanon, Shilow, Dupo and Millstadt
early Jan. 5. Four of the witnesses were police officers from
different jurisdictions, and all reported the object made no
noise and hovered between 500 and 1,000 feet above the ground.

"The descriptions were not atypical from the other reports we've
gotten, but we did have more eyewitnesses who appear to be
credible than in other incidents," Kelleher said. "Our telephone
investigation from here convinced us the police officers who
claimed they had seen the UFO appeared to be sane and that this
appeared to be a genuine sighting."

Kelleher declined to comment on the particulars of the
investigation but said the institute plans to release its report
within two weeks on its website at www.accessnv.com/nids. He
said Valier and Pinson are busy compiling their data now and
conducting further telephone interviews.

Typically investigators get detailed descriptions of what the
witnesses saw, particularly details that will may help
physicists determine what was seen, Kelleher said. They also ask
the witnesses if they've had any other UFO experiences or
suffered any psychological effects from the sighting.

Most UFO sightings are actually the result of people
"misperceiving normal phenomenon," Kelleher said. What people
think are alien spacecrafts are actually missile launches,
meteor showers, weather balloons or other normal occurrences.

"Over 90 percent are usually tracked down and explained by
misperceptions or delusions," Kelleher said. "Of course, we also
get hoaxes, some morning deejays calling us as pranksters."

Institute members only go to those sites that can't be explained
immediately, Kelleher said. Over the past five months, members
have gone to only three or four UFO or cow mutilation sites.

The institute has gotten between 200 and 300 calls during that
time frame, he said. The number of calls has gone up
dramatically in past months because the institute has been
urging law enforcement agencies and the media to make use of
it's hotline number, 1-702-798-1700.

Kelleher said the phone is staffed 16 hours a day and an
answering service is employed for the remaining eight hours.

The institute takes pains to ensure the privacy of people who
report unusual occurrences because the media has often either
ridiculed them or trivialized the reports, Kelleher said.

Surprisingly, in this case, "very few jokes have been made about
little green men," Kelleher said.

Bigelow, who owns the Budget Suites of America hotel chain, also
has pledged $500 million to build a 100-passenger luxury tourist
cruise ship that will orbit the moon. The headquarters for his
space tourism company is being built near Red Rock Canyon and is
expected to open in May 2001.

Bigelow also is well-known for being the benefactor of UNLV's
Consciousness Studies program, which studies the paranormal.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com








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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Martin Jeffrey <martin-j@lineone.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:46:42 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:31:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:38:20 +0000
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:29:28 +0000
 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Concerning the assult carried out on Bob Taylor, what were the
 >>specific injuries that he suffered?

 >A burn or abbrasion under his chin (origin unknown) and a
 >similar mark on his thigh coincident with where he claimed a
 >'spike' touched him from the object that emerged from the UFO.
 >He also suffered physiological after effects - namely severe
 >headaches, muscle debilitation that prevented him from doing
 >more but crawling for some minutes and nausea that lasted only
 >an hour or two. All such effects were over within hours.


<snip>


Hi Jenny and Roy

If I remember right, either Graham Birdsall or Harry Price, has
Bob Taylor's trousers as "evidence".

I also suggest that you try Ron Halliday, a Scottish UFO
investigator regarding the incident.

Cheers

Martin Jeffrey
Mystery Magazine (UK)
www.mystery.ic24.net/index.html








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                     UFO Sighting Brings Town Attention

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:42:14 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:34:36 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Brings Town Attention


Greetings list -

From: http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dsnews/134nd2.htm

UFO Sighting Brings Town Attention

Thursday, January 13, 2000

MILLSTADT, Ill. (AP) � Nobody knows what it was, but everyone in
Millstadt knows what a police officer's sighting of a mysterious
floating object above the city has done. It has put this sleepy
southern Illinois village on the map.

Reporters and talk-show hosts nationwide have deluged the
10-officer department with telephone calls since the first media
reports of the Jan. 5 sighting.

"It's going to affect policing if we don't put a stop to it,"
Chief Ed Wilkerson said in clamping down on interviews. "I never
thought anything like this would draw this much attention."

In a report filed with the department and posted on its World
Wide Web site, Craig Stevens said he saw a large, triangular
object floating quietly through the sky in the early hours of
Jan. 5. Officers in three other Metro East cities and the owner
of a Highland miniature-golf course also saw it.

"It was all lighted up and so low that someone could have waved
at me out the window," said Melvin Noll, the owner of the golf
course.

The sighting provoked calls from reporters and talk-show hosts
nationwide, and prompted a team of UFO investigators led by a
former FBI agent to fly in from Las Vegas to investigate the
case.

Wilkerson said he doesn't think the craft was alien.

Neither does the assistant director of the Illinois Mutual UFO
Network, Forest Crawford of Collinsville.

He thinks it was an experimental stealth blimp.

Officials at Scott Air Force Base say they know nothing of any
such craft.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com








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                   Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:58:58 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:42:15 -0500
Subject: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed


Greetings list -

From: http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/klass_nsa_000113.html

Long-Withheld UFO Documents Revealed
By Patrick Huyghe
special to space.com
posted: 02:43 pm EST
13 January 2000

The UFO controversy is full of strange stories, but this may be
the strangest yet.

Few people are aware that a few years ago, Philip Klass, the
lone-gun UFO skeptic despised by believers as "the enemy",
managed to do something that the most devoted researchers had
attempted for years without success -- getting the super-secret
National Security Agency (NSA) to release portions of its
long-withheld UFO documents.

The surprise move by Klass could have backfired, but instead has
turned into a remarkable coup.

The heart of the matter

For the past two decades, the Holy Grail of those who believe
the government is staging a massive cover-up of UFO evidence has
been the 156 UFO-related documents that the NSA has refused
since 1979 to release in any shape or form.

Even the court battle to get those documents released under the
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) in the early 1980s served only
to stoke the fires of conspiracy.

When UFO researchers managed to get hold of the 21-page
affidavit that NSA had presented to the court to justify its
actions, the affidavit came back heavily blacked-out and
censored. But it made a good prop for the TV cameras and seemed
like pretty tangible proof to back-up the claim of some
believers that the government was indeed hiding what it knew
about UFOs.

Enter the unflappable Philip Klass.

In October of 1996, Klass wrote a letter to the director of the
NSA, Lt. Gen. Kenneth Minihan, in effect tugging at the
top-secret curtain that hides the NSA's UFO documents from
public view.

Klass, as contributing editor for Aviation Week and Space
Technology, had interviewed Minihan on the subject of electronic
warfare two years previously, when Minihan was director of the
Defense Intelligence Agency. Just two weeks before sending out
the letter, Klass had heard Minihan, now director of the NSA,
give a talk at a conference of the Association of Old Crows.

How to get results

In his letter, Klass explained to Minihan that his hobby for the
last 30 years had been to debunk claims that UFOs are alien
spacecraft visiting Earth and that the government was engaged in
a massive UFO cover-up.

After this and other preliminary remarks, Klass sprung his
request on Minihan. Now that the face of world politics had so
changed, might the NSA reconsider declassifying at least some of
its UFO-related documents?

Releasing this material, most of which are COMINT, or
communications intelligence, reports dating from 1958 to 1979,
would help "expose the absurdity of claims that these documents
prove a government UFO cover-up," Klass wrote.

Declassified delivery

A couple of months rolled by and then in January of 1997 the
mailman arrived at Klass's door with "a gigantic package from
NSA."

And there they were, the never-publicly-seen 156 NSA documents,
as well as a heavily declassified version of the 21-page NSA
court affidavit.

What the documents and affidavit reveal, Klass says, is that
NSA's earlier refusal to release the documents was aimed
squarely at keeping secret the agency's eavesdropping on Soviet
air defense radar sites.

In fact, the 156 NSA UFO documents are still heavily censored to
hide the identity and locations of the Soviet radar sites whose
communications the NSA was able to intercept.

But the "UFO content" of the documents is now available for
everyone to examine, though all places and dates remain
censored.

Perhaps the most startling of the documents indicates the
Soviets launched a number of interceptor aircraft to "attack" a
UFO. But the results of the attempted intercept with the slow
moving UFO are unknown as the next eight lines of the document
are blacked out.

Business as usual? Well, yes and no. The analyst did note that
the UFO was "probably a balloon." In fact, most of the 156 NSA
UFO documents report UFOs that are "probably balloons,"
according to comments in the documents themselves.

Red balloons

What's all this about balloons? Klass explains.

"When NSA intercepted messages from Soviet radars which reported
tracking an 'Unidentifiable object' some NSA analysts translated
that into 'Unidentified Flying Object,' " he wrote in his
Skeptics UFO Newsletter (404 "N" St. SW, Washington, DC. 20024),
which originally broke the news of the declassified NSA UFO
documents.

"Because the Soviets used balloons carrying radar reflectors to
periodically check the performance of their air defense radars
and the alertness of their radar operators, a NSA translator
analyst would add 'Probably a balloon' where it seemed
appropriate."

But after UFO organizations began making FOIA requests in the
late 1970s, Klass believes that someone must have told the NSA
translator/analysts to stop using the term "UFO" for the
balloon-borne targets. Apparently NSA hasn't used the term
since.

What the NSA documents show, according to Klass, is not a grand
conspiracy to hide the fact that UFOs are alien spacecraft, but
that the Soviets had "deployed height-finder-type radars capable
of tracking targets up to altitudes of nearly 80,000 ft."

Yes, Klass admits, there are about a dozen "true" UFO reports in
the bunch.

These contain summaries of visual UFO sightings and apparently
come from Soviet facilities other than radar installations whose
communications the NSA had managed to intercept.

Investigator reactions mixed

The report is, at best, interesting. But there is certainly
nothing here to suggest an alien spacecraft and now that this
and other similar NSA UFO documents are out in the open, no
evidence of a government cover-up either.

Peter Gersten, the attorney who filed the original UFO FOIA suit
against NSA, seemed nonplussed by the release.

"There is nothing in the NSA documents that either confirm or
deny the reality of an extraterrestrial presence," says Gersten.
"The documents relate exclusively to NSA operations."

And Stan Friedman, the nuclear physicist and UFO investigator
who often used the blacked-out NSA court documents in his public
talks, is still not happy with the situation.

"There is no question that the NSA is still withholding UFO
information preceding 1980," he notes on his website.

But there is no question that Phil Klass has scored big here. He
has shown that the believers' "smoking gun" lacked fire of any
kind. It barely even packed a squirt.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com









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   Jan > Jan 13

                    Re: Travis Walton - An Insider's View

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2000 15:30:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:47:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Travis Walton - An Insider's View



 >From: Brian Straight <briansxx@gte.net>
 >To: <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: Travis Walton - An Insider's View
 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:29:27 -0500

 >From: Mystery Magazine <mystery@ic24.net>
 >To: <HauntedscotlandMM@onelist.com>
 >Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 6:34 PM
 >Subject: [HauntedscotlandMM] Fw: Travis Walton - An Insider's View

 >From: E. L. <skeptix@efn.org>
 >Newsgroups: bit.listserv.skeptic,alt.misc.forteana
 >Sent: 08 January 2000 22:16
 >Subject: Travis Walton - An Insider's View
 >The Selling of the Travis Walton "Abduction" Story

 >Some Background Information

 >Robert Sheaffer,
 >Box 10441,
 >San Jose, CA
 >95157 USA

 >March 4, 1993

 >Australian newspaperman Jeff Wells was a member of the National
 >Enquirer team that "packaged" the Travis Walton abduction story
 >for publication.

It's depressing to see this rubbish being recirculated. For the
UFOphobes, there is no end of the slandering of Travis Walton,
even though any one of them should consider him - or herself
lucky to shine the shoes of this good man, one of the true
victims of the sort of McCarthyism debunkers love to traffic in.

I urge all interested listfolk to read the appendix (pp.
285-370) to Walton's Fire in the Sky (1996) for a thoroughgoing
demolition of the debunking mythology that has clouded this
extraordinary case from the start.  For the Wells story that
Bobby Sheaffer has put back into circulation, see Walton's
observations on pp. 350-52. Walton calls the account
"fantastical and exaggerated" and shows exactly why.  He also
remarks tellingly, "Wells not only gets the basic chronology
wrong, he describes events he _couldn't_ have seen."

Permit me to quote my own words, in a summation of the Walton
case in my UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Edition: "In its five decades
ufology has seen its share of hoaxers, and Travis Walton, to
every appearance a modest and decent man, acts like none of
them. If his story is a fabrication, it is among the most
skillfully and intricately executed in UFO history. If is is
not, then its implications -- for all of us -- are extraordinary
indeed."

I think it's that last point -- the deep fear that Walton may
just be telling the truth -- that has driven the debunkers into
an unending orgy of excess.  The rest of us, however, need not
go there.  Thank God.

Jerry Clark













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   Jan > Jan 13

                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:12:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:52:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:42:26 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:38:27 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:30:04 +0000
 >>>From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Kathleen,

 >>>The story has come a long way since then, as evidenced by some
 >>>correspondence I received from Dr Jacqueline Mitton, who has for
 >>>the past 10 years been the media spokesperson for the
 >>>prestigious Royal Astronomical Society:

 >>>"I found what you had to say of great interest and your detailed
 >>>research adds strong weight to the interpretation of Arnold's
 >>>sighting as birds. I wish I'd known about it before giving my
 >>>talk at the British Association for the Advancement of Science".

 >>However..... no disrespect to Jacqueline Mitton but I question
 >>her response as being "fact". It is merely "hypothesis", a
 >>conclusion made by a person for lack of any other answer.
 >>Perhaps Ms. Mitton is a spokes person for the Royal Astronomical
 >>Society but has she been to Washington State and personally
 >>investigated the Arnold case? Has she been in a plane, retracing
 >>his route of that day with similiar weather coniditions that
 >>existed? Is she an expert on aviation? Is she a pilot?

 >>The Royal Astronomical Society is some 6,000 miles from the
 >>location of the incident. The Washington Astronomical Society
 >>which is right here and believes that Kenneth Arnold witnessed an
 >>extraordinary event back in 1947. Because someone is affliated
 >>with NASA, Astronomical Society, CIA, does not make them an
 >>authority on everything that happens in this world. There are
 >>far too many ungivens in life. For after all we are but "mortal
 >>humans", babies trying to make our way past the must see it,
 >>touch it, feel it or smell it stage of our existence. Logic
 >>still rules our brains.

 >You're absolutely right.  This is not the first time we've seen
 >this meaningless quote from "Dr. Jacqueline Mitton ... of the
 >prestigious Royal Astronomical Society."  Her words are based on
 >no particular knowledge beyond what Easton has told her, and I
 >would suspect that, like most astronomers, she has a disdain for
 >the UFO phenomenon at least as great as her ignorance of it. I
 >suspect, in other words, that all James Easton did was tell her
 >what she wanted to hear, with predictable results. Let's hope
 >that further discussion of the Arnold sighting will be carried
 >on sans references to Mitton's uninformed beliefs.

 >Jerry Clark


Jerry is right on. I wrote Dr. Mitton with a number of
enclosures. Dr. Bruce Maccabee sent her his paper on the Arnold
case.

I challenged her to a debate: Bruce and I versus she and as many
of her colleagues as she wanted as long we got equal time.

Not even the courtesy of a reply.

Not surprising.

Noisy negativists can dish it out, but they surely don't have
the courage to defend their indefensible views.

I also challenged Dr. Lawrence Maxwell Krauss (Case Western
Reserve Univ.) to a public debate on his campus. He and I did
debate on Jeff Rense's radio show. I read his books before the
show. He did nothing.

I got a note back from him after I sent him some information. He
was pseudoscientific and didn't respond then to my challenge. He
wrote "The Physics of Star Trek" and "Beyond Star Trek". Not
only did he know nothing about UFOs, he also knew nothing about
advanced propulsion systems though pretending to be an expert.

I am hoping to be able to take on Dr. Seth Shostak another one
of the SETI-cultists. I doubt if he has guts enough despite
making cracks about UFOs and Interstellar travel.

Stan Friedman








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                         UK Conference 2000 - Update

From: Tim Matthews <TMMatthews99@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:15:19 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:56:50 -0500
Subject: UK Conference 2000 - Update


Dear Friends,

Information packs for Conference 2000 are going out today and
tomorrow and interest is really starting to build.

New additions to the speakers list include short contributions
from Eric Morris, who'll be talking about his encounters with UK
Ufology's very own MIB - this is important stuff supported by
vital new evidence from 1989 - and Chris Parr, Cumbrian UFO
investigator extraordinaire who'll be exposing the latest odd
goings-on in his part of the country.

Tickets available now;

Check it out;

www.angelfire.com/sd/discoveryuk/index.html

Thanks,

Tim and Lynda Matthews








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   Jan > Jan 13

                           World's Strangest Wings

From: Sue Addison <NevadaFighter@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:06:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:59:16 -0500
Subject: World's Strangest Wings


Happy New Year All.

In the February 2000 issue of 'WINGS' there is an article about the
'World's Strangest Wings - Flying Automobiles to Flying Saucers'.

Sue









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   Jan > Jan 13

                 Cydonian Imperative: What is the Evidence?

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:09:06 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:03:08 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: What is the Evidence?


CI: What is the Evidence?

by Mac Tonnies

I thought it fair to outline the anomalies under question.  Many
of them are well-known, as I am devoting this post to anomalies
imaged by Viking.  I will attempt to briefly remark on the
context and morpholology of the various anomalies at Cydonia,
with emphasis on the need for future images.

1. The Face.  Enough has been said about this formation already
that it's not practical to dwell on it here.  Further thoughts
on the aesthetic implications of the Face will appear in a
future mailing.

2. The Fort.  In my opinion, an image of the Fort (in its
entirety) is almost more desirable than a new image of the Face.
In the data on hand, the Fort appears very angular.  It's sunken
interior appears completely unique, and it's anyone's guess what
we will find inside.  Possibly the thick, notched walls clearly
visible in the Viking photographs have shielded the interior
from a degree of weathering.  In that case, high-resolution
images of the Fort may provide us with the best evidence yet
supportive of the Intelligence Hypothesis.

3. The City Pyramid.  Of the "City" formations imaged by the
MGS, the City Pyramid, adjacent to the Fort, is the most
striking.  From above, it appears almost perfectly symmetric,
with five clearly defined facets.  Furthermore, it is flanked by
several architectural- looking features, such as a bifurcated
terrace and a series of unusually bright lines radiating from
the Pyramid's head.  These are very similar to the "spines"
detected on the mesa near the Face, and the regularly spaced
"tracks" arranged beneath the Coathanger/Dolphin feature, also
near the Face.

The City Pyramid also reveals some eroded geometric detail that
would tend to suggest artificiality.  Whatever this feature is,
it appears very old, and is surrounded by an apron of sand.  Who
knows what detail has been buried over the millennia?

4. The D&M Pyramid.  This enormous, apparently five-sided
formation shares its general shape with the nearby City Pyramid
(see above), although the left side shows rather severe
degradation.  The corners of this feature have interesting
"buttresses" that invite speculation.  Most interesting to me is
the so-called "bottomless pit" to the D&M's right.
Shape-from-shading computer analysis shows that this is not, in
fact, a hole, but rather a cave-like opening that appears to
lead into the pyramid's degraded right flank.

5. The Cliff.  The Cliff feature is at least as ambiguous at the
Fort, in that there is no known geological mechanism to explain
either its morphology or location.  Like the Crater Pyramid and
Coathanger/Dolphin (see below), this elongated feature is
perched next to a crater.  Ejecta extends about a kilometer
_past_ the Cliff.  As the Cliff appears unscathed, one is forced
conclude that the Cliff was formed after the meteor impact that
caused the crater (if the Cliff had been present beforehand, the
impact would have obliterated it).

Even more interestingly, the Cliff is situated next to apparent
"excavated terrain," possibly from which the Cliff was built.
Again, this swath of chewed-looking terrain is inconsistent with
any geological explanation.

Finally, and perhaps most excitingly of all, this bizarre
feature looks quite facelike, with eyes, a narrow central ridge
serving as a nose, cheekbones, mouth and chin.  This resemblance
is accentuated when the Cliff is viewed from the south.
Coincidentally (?), there is another unexplained formation south
of the Cliff (the Tholus) that would have provided an unimpeded
view of the Cliff for its hypothetical architects.

It should be noted that the Face, City Pyramid, Fort and Cliff
share identical alignments and are roughly the same size.  The
"splash" nature of the Cliff's adjacent crater is also further
evidence that the Cydonia region was once wet, or perhaps even
partially underwater (and thus more hospitable for life).

6. The Tholus.  Located directly south of the aforementioned
Cliff, the Tholus is a grooved, blunt "ziggurat" with a dark
opening evident on its side.  This feature is unprecedented and
has no known analog in other Martian dome-shaped formations.
Its ramp-like structures and hypothesized entrance, coupled with
its unique angular relationship with the Cliff, argue for a
non-natural explanation.

The Tholus is accompanied by a smaller, but similarly grooved
companion feature.  I would argue that the odds of two such
unique formations existing naturally in such close proximity
would be quite low.

7. The Domed Formation.  Poised on the far western edge of the
"City" complex, the Domed Formation shares many attributes with
the Face, including alignment, size  and the presence of a
clearly defined "platform."  Other than the Main Pyramid and
Fort, the Domed Formation is the most striking of the "City"
formations.  Mark Carlotto has postulated that the Domed
Formation might be an unfinished analog of the Face.  While
there are no apparent facial characteristics apparent, the
general shape and structure are very similar; both features
demand future high-resolution imaging.

8. The Crater Pyramid.  The Crater Pyramid is a wedge-shaped
structures situated on the rim of a crater (a by now familiar
association).  Like the Cliff (and Coathanger/Dolphin, discussed
below), this feature must predate the cratering event, as it
would have been leveled by the impact.  Along with being the
tallest formation is a hundred-kilometer radius, the Crater
Pyramid displays symmetry and angles associated with artificial
structures.  Its enigma is strengthened by the presence of the
Tunnel Complex, located on a nearby crater (see #9).

9. The Tunnel Complex.  This feature consists of a thin, ruler-
straight formation intersected by a number of smaller furrows.
It lies in close proximity to the Crater Pyramid, and its lack
of damage argues strongly in favor of later construction.
Perhaps the Crater Pyramid and Tunnel Complex, along with the
Cliff, are evidence of an ancient mining project (possibly to
harvest ice or permafrost from the meteor-blasted soil).

10. Bowl Complexes 1 and 2.  These compelling formations,
located by Mark Carlotto using a non-fractality computer
algorithm, are demonstratably unique. Each consists of a raised,
bowl-shaped enclosure (unlike any noted crater depressions) and
a single pyramid.  These pyramids have been shown to share their
alignment with the more well-known pyramidal features at
Cydonia, despite being relatively far from the "City" complex.
This fact alone tends to deflate the theory that the Cydonian
"pyramids" are actually naturally occurring faceted mountains.

(Another notable pyramid is the "NK Pyramid," discovered by high
school students while accessing Viking data; it is rather ironic
that the first possible hard evidence of extraterrestrial
intelligence is being discovered by nonprofessionals.  It is
also painfully obvious demonstration of Kuhn's theory of the
structure of scientific revolution, in which new paradigms
triumph not because the status quo is "won over," but because
those upholding the status quo die off, making room for a
generation of unbiased inquiry.)

As with the Crater Pyramid and Tunnel Complex, there is no
obvious purpose for these features.  The "bowls" resemble radio
telescopes or open-air theaters more than anything else.  The
internal geometry evidenced by both Bowl Complexes is quite
astonishing, with angles and regularity not seen in the
surrounding terrain.

11. The Runway/String of Pearls.  Far from Cydonia, on the side
of the shield volcano Hecates Tholus, the Runway is a precise
linear arrangement of undefined bumps.  The Runway is
accompanied by a second unexplained feature shaped somewhat like
a bow tie; each feature is recessed in a shallow, contoured
basin that may represent buried substructure.

Richard Hoagland once theorized that the Runway complex was
evidence of a mass-launcher or rail-gun of the type popularized
by Arthur C. Clarke.  This or a similar device would be an
efficient means of launching payloads off-planet.  While the
nature of the Runway is unknown, it's interesting to note that
its location atop Hecates Tholus would be ideal for just such a
device.

####

As can be seen, there is ample evidence to support the theory
that Mars once harbored intelligent life.  The odds are probably
for it.  What is needed now is a coherent theoretical framework
with which to frame our inquiries (i.e. What feature should be
reimaged next?)

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a mailing list devoted to the immediate implementation of
manned Mars missions and the democratization of space
science, emphasizing the strange formations found in the
Cydonia Mensae region.  This list is not affiliated with any
particular Mars advocacy group, and is intended to be as
informal as possible.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

Useful websites:

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://shuttlenasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_








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   Jan > Jan 13

                   Total Eclipse Of Moon And LTP Observing

From: Francis Ridge <slk@evansville.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:07:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:38:07 -0500
Subject: Total Eclipse Of Moon And LTP Observing



LTP OBSERVING BULLETIN
TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE
JAN 20-21, 2000
Western Hemisphere Observers

The upcoming total eclipse of the Moon is going to start on
January 21, 2000, at 02:02 UT (or January 20 at 8:02 P.M. CST).
This will give us an opportunity to examine the Moon for
possible Lunar Transient Phenomena (LTP) events that may be
taking place at the time of the umbral passage, or for LTP
events that may be produced with the sudden drop in temperature
that will take place.

The eclipse enters the penumbra at 8:03 P.M. CST and makes first
contact with the umbra at 9:01 P.M. CST with mid eclipse taking
place at 10:44 P.M. CST.  The eclipse leaves the umbra by 12:55
A.M. the following morning.

Historically eclipses in the past have produced surprises of
starlike lights glowing for long periods of time during the
eclipse, unusual shadow appearances, glows that persisted
through the eclipse and flashes taking place during the umbral
phase.

I request that all observers monitor the Moon for any unusual
activity that is not associated with normal eclipse appearance.
I would like a report from all participants reporting either
positive or negative sighting of LTP.

I will be conducting video monitoring of select features such as
Proclus, Tycho, and Aristarchus. Also I will be doing a full
disk shot of the Moon using a hand held video camera.  My fellow
amateur associate Gilbert Lubcke will be conducting CCD imaging
using a ST6 Santa Barbra camera of these same three features.
His images will be used to verify any LTP events if I see one
visually or on the video tape, or if any events are reported by
any other observers.

For more information on the upcoming eclipse you can check out
this excellent web site.

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html

Will be looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Good Hunting!


David O. Darling
A.L.P.O. Lunar Transient Phenomena Recorder


Please support The Lunascan Project & NICAP web sites by sending
donations to: Sites, 618 Davis Drive, Mt. Vernon, IN  47620
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/lshomepage.html


----------------------------------------------------------------


THE LUNASCAN PROJECT (TLP): An Earth-Based Telescopic Imaging (EBTI)
program using live and recorded CCD technology to document and record
Lunar Transient Phenomena (TLPs).

The Lunascan Project HomePage
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/lshomepage.html

The Project's Mission Statement :
http://www.evansville.net/~slk/miss.html









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                     Police Report On Jan. 5th Sighting

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:20:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:49:08 -0500
Subject: Police Report On Jan. 5th Sighting


Go here for the police report on the 4:00 a.m. Illinois UFO
sighting:

http://millstadtpolice.homepage.com/aircraft.html


-- ky

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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                 Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:56:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:58:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:58:58 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Greetings list -

 >From: http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/klass_nsa_000113.html

 >Long-Withheld UFO Documents Revealed
 >By Patrick Huyghe
 >special to space.com
 >posted: 02:43 pm EST
 >13 January 2000

 >The UFO controversy is full of strange stories, but this may be
 >the strangest yet.

 >Few people are aware that a few years ago, Philip Klass, the
 >lone-gun UFO skeptic despised by believers as "the enemy",
 >managed to do something that the most devoted researchers had
 >attempted for years without success -- getting the super-secret
 >National Security Agency (NSA) to release portions of its
 >long-withheld UFO documents.

 >The surprise move by Klass could have backfired, but instead has
 >turned into a remarkable coup.

 >The heart of the matter

<snip>

There are a couple of important omissions here:

l. No mention is made of the fact that the 156 UFO documents are
"cleverly" censored with white out rather than the black ink
almost always used heretofor. In almost all cases only a very
few lines are not censored - typically 2 or 3. Unless Klass is
psychic, which he would certainly deny, he has no way of knowing
what is under the white ink. I will admit that it makes it less
impressive on TV. Talking about the switch does get a good laugh
though at my lectures.

2. The real impetus behind the declassification, according to
the NSA spokesman with whom I spoke a few years back, was
Executive Order 12958 which has all agencies reviewing their
older classified documents in order to prevent important stuff
from automatically being declassified on April 2000 as the order
reequired when signed in April 1995. Interestingly she was
reading something false that Klass had written about me when I
called..

Unfortunately an amendment signed in November 1999 extended the
deadline to late 2001...

Stan Friedman








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                         Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:06:09 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:52:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000


 >From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:30:04 +0000
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 00:49:22 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Arnold in the Year 2000

 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Arnold in the Year 2000
 >>Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0100

 >>Should we pay some specific attention to the compass
 >>disturbances - that there were _none_ (reported by Arnold) up in
 >>the air, 1 mile (1,600 m) away from the objects, but still there
 >>were disturbances on the ground, some 1,000 feet (300 m)
 >>below....?

 >Asgeir,

 >Unfortunately, Johnson's claims weren't made until 20 August,
 >almost two months after Arnold's story had become nationally
 >known. It's reliability, even if only the accuracy after so
 >long, is consequently questionable.

 >There are obvious anomalies - as you note, why wouldn't Arnold's
 >compass and instruments also have been affected, etc.

There is no "anomaly."  Arnold was simply much further away, as
already explained by Bruce Maccabee and myself.  Magnetic fields
fall off inversely with the cube of the distance.  If Arnold was
100 times further away, the magnetic field disturbances noted by
Johnson would be a million times less.  Even Asgeir now
acknowledges this.

I see your scientific acumen hasn't improved in the intervening
months since you last advanced your preposterous pelican theory.
We're still waiting to hear how pelicans could outfly Arnold's
plane or glint brightly in the sunlight, even when backlit with
the snow and ice of Mt. Rainier.

 >>Last year I was convinced that the 9 objects Kenneth Arnold
 >>observed were pelicans gliding along and above the mountain ridges.

 >When I first raised that possibility, it was as stated
 >speculative, although an avenue which had never been investigated.

Nonsense.  You advanced it as a definitive explanation.

 >The story has come a long way since then,

Yes, it's since entered the annals of worst UFO explanations of
all time.  You have achieved an immortality of sorts.
"Pelicans" now produces the same sort of giggles as "swamp gas."
Congratulations!

 >as evidenced by some
 >correspondence I received from Dr Jacqueline Mitton, who has for
 >the past 10 years been the media spokesperson for the
 >prestigious Royal Astronomical Society:

 >"I found what you had to say of great interest and your detailed
 >research adds strong weight to the interpretation of Arnold's
 >sighting as birds. I wish I'd known about it before giving my
 >talk at the British Association for the Advancement of Science".

We await Dr. Mitton's explanation as to how pelicans outflew
Arnold's plane.  Does she know any of the details of the case,
or is she going solely from your usual carefully edited
renditions?

 >Following this brief reply, there is something being published
 >which you might want to consider in forming any judgement of
 >what Arnold probably observed.

 >It contains important new evidence and one way or another,
 >you'll no doubt hear about it.

What now?  Did one of the pelican perpetrators finally confess
on his death-nest?

This is one guy who is just never going to get it.


David Rudiak






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                         UFO*BC Updates - 01-13-2000

From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <david_pengilly@dccnet.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:24:06 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 02:03:24 -0500
Subject: UFO*BC Updates - 01-13-2000


We have recently updated our website - http://ufobc.org
The following items are linked from our Homepage, under
"What's New"

1) Winter 2000 issue of UFO*BC Quarterly now available!
  - http://ufobc.org/Store/winter2000.htm

2) UFO*BC archived radio shows
  - listen to our monthly radio show with Jeff Rense
  - the links are there, but details still under construction
  - http://ufobc.org/radioshows.htm

3) Six-Toed Sasquatch?
  - detailed footprints seen near Penticton
  - http://ufobc.org/sixtoed.htm

4) "The PartyPooper" by Graham Conway
  - strange sights and sounds on Fromme Mountain!
  - http://ufobc.org/partypooper.htm

5) Recently Reported Sightings
  - the latest from BC and the Yukon
  - http://ufobc.org/recent.htm

6) "UFO Experiences of 17 Youth in Ross River, Yukon"
  - eyewitness tells of her sightings from the early 70s
  - http://ufobc.org/yukon/ross17.html

7) "An Encounter on the Alaska Highway" - 1980
  - another "highlighted historical" case. We have updated our
    History section, please browse around. Comments are welcome.
  - http://ufobc.org/History/alaska.htm

8) "22+ Witnesses Observe a UFO Larger than a Football Stadium"
  - Martin Jasek has updated this amazing case with interesting
    thumbnails linked to the full size drawings, photographs and
    images
  - http://ufobc.org/yukon/22index.htm

9) "Mason's Memory Missing Many Minutes"
  - recent case from the Sechelt area.
  - http://ufobc.org/mason.htm

***********************************************************

Dave Pengilly
dave@ufobc.org







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   Jan > Jan 14

                   Cydonian Imperative: 'Dolphin' Features

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:55:28 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 02:07:41 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: 'Dolphin' Features

{The following is a revision of an earlier essay dealing only
with the feature dubbed the "Coat hanger" by Stanley McDaniel.
I've since been looking closer at the large dolphin outline
located near the City area and decided to offer my thoughts.
--Mac}


Dolphin-like Features at Cydonia

by Mac Tonnies

1. The Problem with Profiles

The so-called "Coat hanger" feature was one of several
relatively small-scale anomalies discovered on the pictures
returned by the Mars Global Surveyor.  Located to the lower left
of the "Face," the "Coat hanger" is most immediately interesting
because of the unexplained "tracks" found at its base.  The
markings have a very high albedo, and while no definitive
geological explanation has been put forward, it's possible that
the "tracks" may be composed of water ice.  (Similar bright
marking can be found nearby on the irregularly shaped mesa next
to the Face, and still others can be seen near the "tip" of the
"City Pyramid" formation.)

So far, speculation regarding the Coat hanger's potential
artificiality has been limited to the tracks' unusual linear
configuration and unexplained albedo.  But it has also been
noticed that the "Coat hanger" feature itself is interesting in
that it very closely resembles a bottle- nosed dolphin seen in
profile.

Usually a feature of this sort would be dismissed; like the
spattering of mud NASA has called "Kermit the Frog," all sorts
of creatures seem to appear on the Martian surface in profile.
While the Face was originally explained away for much the same
reason, it has since been demonstrated, using data from both
Viking and MGS, that it is a three- dimensional formation that
retains facial aspects under a variety of lighting conditions
and viewing angles.

2.  Anomalous Characteristics

Why, then, is the Coat hanger an exception?  In my opinion, the
dolphin resemblance bears a closer look for the following
reasons:

1.) Presence of previously mentioned "tracks" running parallel
to "dolphin" shape.

2.) Proximity to Face.  If the Face is artificial, then it's
reasonable to presume that its builders left other artifacts in
the same area.  This contention has been born out by the
presence of large anomalous surface formations such as the
"Fort," "Cliff," "Tholus," and "D&M Pyramid," as well as a
number of smaller (below Viking resolution) features revealed by
the MGS that exhibit unusual characteristics.

3.) Apparent modified terrain.  As in the case with the "Cliff"
and "Crater Pyramid," the Coat hanger/Dolphin feature sits very
near an apparent impact crater.  Furthermore, there is a shallow
groove running through the crater that appears to be a
continuation of a more prominent, triangular "cut" located to
the immediate left of the Coat hanger.

The reason why certain Martian crater rims appear to have been
excavated in the distant past is unknown, though it's been
suggested that the builders had a limited reliance on subsurface
water and constructed facilities to exploit subsurface material
uprooted by impact.  The best examples of this hypothesis are
the tunnel-like features extending from a crater directly south
of the aforementioned Crater Pyramid, which may be the remains
of an attempt to mine ice from the Martian surface.  (This
theory provides a potentially interesting vantage on the
time-frame of the Cydonian builders as well.)

4.) Associated anomaly.  Aside from the Face, the Coat hanger is
positioned directly above a bright, circular dome, probably
composed of the same material as the Coat hanger and "tracks."
This domed feature exhibits a very high albedo, possibly due to
ice.  How, exactly, ice came to be localized in such a precise
and intentional-looking manner remains an open question.  If not
ice, then what?  Possibly the answer can only be arrived at by
ground-based exploration.

Interestingly, the bright dome in question is accompanied by a
very narrow, straight line suggesting a possible road.  This
line leads directly to the adjacent crater, and appears parallel
with the line of unexplained "tracks" that frame the bottom
portion of the proposed "dolphin."

5.) Internal detail.  I compared the shape of the Coat hanger to
that of a bottle-nosed dolphin and was interested to find that
the salient dolphin features are present in the Martian
formation.  Granted, there are not many (i.e. dorsal fin, tail,
nose), but they appear in proper proportion.  The dorsal fin is
appropriately sloped, not a random triangular feature.

I also noted what may well be an eyeball, with hints of
structure, on the "dolphin's" "head."  The "eye" is easily
identifiable as a black speck --the only variation in the
dolphin's regular albedo.  Like the dorsal fin and tail, the eye
is located precisely where it should be if the dolphin feature
is, in fact, an artificial structure designed to resemble a
dolphin (or other cetacean).

6.) Conclusion

New evidence indicates that a substantial ocean once existed in
Mars' northern hemisphere.  Indeed, it's been theorized that the
Cydonian "City" complex once sat on a shoreline, with the Face
emerging as an artificial island.  Surely the presence of a
"dolphin" next to the Face invites inquiry.  Common skeptical
argument will have it that it's absurd to see the likeness of a
terrestrial animal on another planetary surface, to which I say,
"What of it?"  The Face, after all, appears human (or humanoid),
and has successfully passed every test for artificiality posed
to it thus far, using images from a variety of sun angles and
resolutions.

While I am of the opinion that a definitive assessment of
Cydonia will probably have to await a manned presence on Mars, I
think the odds for Cydonia's anomaly being exclusively natural
are arbitrarily low.  Once the existence of probable
extraterrestrial artifacts is admitted, even as an exercise in
probability, the search for small-scale surface anomalies is
warranted.  Given the evidence above, I think the Coat hanger
formation itself, and not just its attendant "tracks," falls
into the range of "anomalous" and deserves future study.

7.) Second "Dolphin"?

Stanley McDaniel of SPSR was the first (to my knowledge) to draw
attention to the regular, concave feature near the City Pyramid.
This semi-circular (?) depression appears very evenly composed,
and is connected to a smaller rectangular depression.  The
overall configuration of these two shapes shows perfect
symmetry.  The fact that this formation appears directly below
the City Pyramid's "terrace" (a bifurcated rectangular feature
located on the Pyramid's lower left "leg") seems to imply
intentional design.

But to what purpose?  My early examinations of McDaniel's
depression were disappointing in that there seemed to be little
or no context for such a feature, assuming artificiality.
Granted, it's possibly fruitless to out-think hypothesized
Martian architects.  But rediscovering other images of the same
region may provide an answer.

The depression and its attendant rectangle are not isolated
features; they are portions of a sunken formation that
resembles, to a high degree, a dolphin or other marine mammal
seen in profile.  My immediate reaction was to reject this
resemblance as fancy, as profiles can bee seen practically
anywhere one cares to see them (see above).  But the proximity
of the "Coat hanger" (yet another dolphin-like feature) and the
depression's very artificial appearance made me look more
critically.

I now find the large dolphin-like impression more impressive
than I did before; the "depression" is, on close examination,
the proposed "dolphin's" head, the smaller rectangle its muzzle.
There is a reasonably coherent dolphin-like appearance to the
rest of the formation so as to make one wonder.  Its size alone
almost seems reason to dismiss it as a subjective mirage, but we
shouldn't forget that the Cydonian structures (if structures
they are) are _big_.  The always-hypothetical Martians (whoever
they were) built big...and evidently to last.

8.) Supporting Evidence of Artificiality

In 1999, NASA's Mars Global Surveyor took its fourth (and last)
look at Cydonia when it imaged the Main City Pyramid for the
second time, apparently to test the hypothesis than an unusual
crater in the region contained ice.  Interestingly, the crater
in question was brought to mainstream scientific attention by
SPSR itself (Malin Space Science Systems has yet to provide its
rationale for taking this fourth Cydonia photo).

Researchers noticed that the supposed ice-crater was located
approximately where the "dolphin's" blow-hole should be, raising
the fascinating possibility that the "crater" was at one time a
functioning fountain!  Coincidence or not, the dolphin feature
seems to possess some aesthetic properties consistent with what
we "know" about Cydonian architecture:

a.) It would have been plainly visible to inhabitants of the
Fort and Main City Pyramid, assuming the latter formations were
habitable structures of some kind.  And, like the Face and "Coat
hanger," it's also visible from orbit.  Its surface is
noticeably brighter than the surrounding terrain (salt
deposition?)

b.) It shares the same aquatic theme as the Coat hanger; both
appear to represent cetacean creatures with dorsal fins,
streamlined tails and proportionate heads.  Though the dolphin
depression isn't perfect, perhaps this can be accounted for by
erosion or the destructive event that evidently toppled the
Fort.

c.) Growing evidence places the City complex near a body of
water, with the Face as an island.  It's been suggested on the
MUFOR Cydonia mailing list that the dolphin depression served as
a tide-pool--in which case we're basically looking at a
desiccated empty swimming pool as viewed from orbit.

9.) Why "Dolphins"?

One may as well ask "Why a humanoid face?"  Neither formation
has a right to be on Mars, according to our current evolutionary
and exobiological paradigms.  So the presence of two (count
them!) terrestrial likenesses at Cydonia doesn't bother me as
much as one might expect.

If there is a "terrestrial connection" of some sort, and the two
dolphin features can be established as artificial, this will
certainly give us pause.  But again: artificiality is still only
a hypothesis.  The above conjectures are written purely as
exercises in reasoning; we must await future exploration.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ *********Mars: The
Cydonian Imperative*********

a mailing list devoted to the immediate implementation of manned
Mars missions and the democratization of space science,
emphasizing the strange formations found in the Cydonia Mensae
region.  This list is not affiliated with any particular Mars
advocacy group, and is intended to be as informal as possible.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

Useful websites:

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://shuttlenasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 14

                 Oz - Warning: Another Big Antartica Balloon

From: Dr Ron Barnett <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 05:25:25 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:09:47 -0500
Subject: Oz - Warning: Another Big Antartica Balloon



              Oz & ASIA DATA RESEARCH
           Phenomena Research Australia


EBK Researchers,


The following data is from AP and apart from being full of
interesting flight data; it also serves as an "Advance Warning"
to all EBK Southern Hemisphere Researchers (EBKSHR ;-),
especially our South American friends. Note, the weather in
Antarctica has been very good and this balloon is very large and
going very high. When the telescope is cut loose this balloon,
if it does not reduced to plan, has the potential to go anywhere
below 20 Degrees Lat South (-20) as a UFO!

It was launched on Monday, Jan. 10th, 2000. Due back (cut) by
Jan. 29th, 2000.

I am sorry, I have no Web Site to link you to, so I have not
<sniped> the warning, it's all there in full.

                           ***

"Scientists have launched a huge telescope carrying balloon over
Antarctica for a detailed study of solar flares, the violent
eruptions of radiation and atomic particles that billow from the
surface of the sun.

The telescope, about the size of a minivan, was sent aloft
Monday from McMurdo Station in Antarctica, and should stay high
in the thin, dry atmosphere over the continent for 15 to 20
days.

It is now summer in Antarctica and the sun shines 24 hours a
day. High temperatures are around 14 above zero.

The sun is now also entering the peak of its 11-year flare cycle
-- called the solar maximum -- marked by large numbers of
sunspots, solar flares, coronal mass ejections and other
activities.

Physicist David M. Rust, leader of the team from the Johns
Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory, will have to
wait several weeks to determine if the project achieves its goal
of providing the sharpest solar pictures ever taken.

The telescope, called Flare Genesis, has a 32-inch mirror and is
designed to show features on the sun's surface as small as 100
miles across, 50 times the resolution of ground-based solar
telescopes, the Sun reports.

Solar flares can disrupt radio and television broadcasts, as
well as electrical transmissions, and threaten the lives of
astronauts.

A 1989 flare knocked out power across Quebec and probably gave
some airline passengers a dose of radiation equal to that of a
chest X-ray.

Sharper pictures of solar storms could explain the mechanisms
behind solar flares, produced when lines of magnetic force on
the sun's surface kink and snap, or abruptly connect to other
lines, Rust says.

Rust began his quest in 1991 when the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration canceled a planned orbiting solar
telescope.

He borrowed a $12 million telescope from the Air Force and APL
built a floating observatory to carry it to an altitude of 23
miles, above 99 percent of Earth's blurring atmosphere.

The scientists' first try failed in 1996 when the telescope lost
an antenna and photos were blurred. Then the telescope separated
from the balloon and wasn't recovered for five months.

The telescope was rebuilt and shipped back to New Zealand to
await another launch, but its crate was left outside and rain
tarnished the instrument's 32-inch mirror.

More recently, a planned Christmas launch had to be canceled
because of unfavorable wind."

                           ***

Regards to all,


Dr Ron BARNETT
Deputy Director
PRA

NOTE: (c) 2000, Associated Press

THANKS TO: - Australian, AP
            - Johns Hopkins University
            - GAA Melbourne University

Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE







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   Jan > Jan 14

                 Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:17:51 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:14:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:58:58 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Greetings list -

 >From: http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/klass_nsa_000113.html

 >Long-Withheld UFO Documents Revealed
 >By Patrick Huyghe
 >special to space.com
 >posted: 02:43 pm EST
 >13 January 2000

 >The UFO controversy is full of strange stories, but this may be
 >the strangest yet.

 >Few people are aware that a few years ago, Philip Klass, the
 >lone-gun UFO skeptic despised by believers as "the enemy",
 >managed to do something that the most devoted researchers had
 >attempted for years without success -- getting the super-secret
 >National Security Agency (NSA) to release portions of its
 >long-withheld UFO documents.

 >The surprise move by Klass could have backfired, but instead has
 >turned into a remarkable coup.

 >The heart of the matter

 >For the past two decades, the Holy Grail of those who believe
 >the government is staging a massive cover-up of UFO evidence has
 >been the 156 UFO-related documents that the NSA has refused
 >since 1979 to release in any shape or form.


Hi,

This is all fascinating but can someone who has these documents
explain the things about the originally censored release that
intrigued me?

For example, why do the NSA refer to UFOs as 'surprise'
material? Is this terminology now simply explained?

Why was even the title of the research paper into UFOs,
referenced by the files, censored?

Have either of these questions been clarified by the new
release?

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles







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   Jan > Jan 14

                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:11:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:17:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:46:42 +0000
 >From: Martin Jeffrey <martin-j@lineone.net>
 >Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:38:20 +0000
 >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:29:28 +0000
 >>>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Concerning the assult carried out on Bob Taylor, what were the
 >>>specific injuries that he suffered?

 >>A burn or abbrasion under his chin (origin unknown) and a
 >>similar mark on his thigh coincident with where he claimed a
 >>'spike' touched him from the object that emerged from the UFO.
 >>He also suffered physiological after effects - namely severe
 >>headaches, muscle debilitation that prevented him from doing
 >>more but crawling for some minutes and nausea that lasted only
 >>an hour or two. All such effects were over within hours.

 ><snip>

 >Hi Jenny and Roy

 >If I remember right, either Graham Birdsall or Harry Price, has
 >Bob Taylor's trousers as "evidence".

 >I also suggest that you try Ron Halliday, a Scottish UFO
 >investigator regarding the incident.

 >Cheers

 >Martin Jeffrey
 >Mystery Magazine (UK)
 >www.mystery.ic24.net/index.html

Hi,

Not unless they changed hands recently. The (standard police
issue) trousers went for forensic tests by the police in 1979,
with limited results - but none that were counter the witness
testimony. After that they came into possession of BUFORA,
thanks to Malcolm Robinson who took over as Scottish coordinator
when I was forced to call for Steuart Campbell to leave my
investigation team.

(This was not, BTW, anything to do with his views on UFOs or his
scepticism - nor indeed any personal thing against Steuart - but
purely as despite my strenuous efforts and lots of leeway he
remained the only BUFORA member ever to refuse to sign the Code
of Practice - making his role as an investigator legally
impossible)

We (BUFORA) organised a conference that looked at the case in
detail and that Malcolm chaired. This was in Edinburgh in l982
and he had the trousers then I recall. To my knowledge he has
taken them to various TV shows since and a detailed BUFORA case
report has been produced that features test reports.

The many theories raised about the case have mostly centred on
temporal lobe epilepsy due to three main factors. Firstly, the
unusual smell reported by Bob Taylor just before losing
consciousness. Secondly, the way the object was semi transparent
and seemed to be blending in and out with the background sky (a
feature I only recall in one other case - the extraordinary
'jellyman' sighting from mid Wales - after which the witness
experienced even more massive physical trauma). Thirdly  the
physical debilitation that Bob was left with in the immediate
aftermath.

However, there are many cases that are not unlike this one on
record and the parallels are far more interesting than the
speculation. Indeed I suspect Steuart's early idea of ball
lightning might not have been too wide of the mark here.

But it, of course, all speculation as to what actually creates
the physiological effects of this magnitude. My guess is that
its a form of UAP and that some of the distorted perception and
visionary experience later described by the witness as if they
are part of the trigger for the incident may in reality have
occurred after the incident has begun (probably via a BOL type
phenomenon). The ASC, memory distortion and other factors that
create severe physiological disorientation may well cause the
witness to experience a totally confused recall of the sequence
of events.

But there is some possibility of an actual contact experience
inb such episodes. We cannot forget that possibility. I dont
think its likely in the Livingston case. But when you compare it
with similar cases like the quite remarkable June l991incident
from Leek, Staffordshire, you start to see why pure UAP
solutions have difficulty in certain circumstances.

In that case the witness encountered a sparking golden ball that
induced severe physical trauma and rendered him unconscious.
After wards he was, like Bob Taylor, only able to crawl through
a near paralytic state that lasted some minutes. A very
interesting clue is that when he brushed his trousers moments
later sparks of static charge were given off. (This case again
has a very interesting near parallel encounter from Scandinavia
reported in the book that Paul Fuller and I wrote about crop
circles)

So far all of this is strong evidence in favour of the witness
being struck by some sort of EM field via a UAP leaving
physiological effects not unlike the aftermath of a lightning
strike without the skin burns. If that were so we might deduce a
similar resolution to Bob Taylors case (as I think Steuart
Campbell was at first trying to do). ]

The big problem is that at Leek the witness came to to find 90
minutes of time had vanished (maybe an abduction or maybe just a
period of unconsciousness, of course) but with his shirt and
shoes also missing. He was only wearing his trousers.  The other
clothes were found in a neat pile next to his car and he has
never regained memory of how this happened.

It is difficult to envisage how a UAP could result in such a
consequence - unless one imagines the witness being struck,
pulling off his clothing, neatly folding it, then walking
several hundred yards (despite the paralysis that seems in his
recall to be continuous from moments before the BOL struck to
minutes after he regained full consciousness an hour and a half
later) and then amidst all this collapsing back into
unconsciousness and subsequently forgetting all recall of the
above actions.

Possible, of course, but logic suggests it struggles for
credibity alongside other scenarios (where for instance the
witness had some form of contact experience during the missing
time).

At Leek the witness (who has a lot of status to lose and so has
been very wary indeed  - sadly) has refused any follow up
investigation.

Bob Taylor was hypnotically regressed - even though there is no
evidence of a time lapse (and case reconstruction shows he
cannot have been unconscious for more than perhaps 5 minutes).
He described the encounter via regression in l979 only as he had
consciously remembered, adding no new features to it other than
a little more clarity of description.

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles







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   Jan > Jan 14

                      Nick Pope's Weird World - Dec 99

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:23:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 07:58:26 -0500
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World - Dec 99


Nick Pope's Weird World
Hot Gossip UK December'99
www.hotgossip.co.uk

Sorry for the delay

I can't believe that December has come around so quickly.
Sometimes time seems to go so quickly, it's positively � spooky.
Anyway, here's the latest news that's caught my eye.

Passport To The Cosmos
Just in time for Christmas, what's probably one of the most
important books ever  written on the alien abduction phenomenon
has been published. Passport To The Cosmos is the latest title
from John Mack, a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical
School. This is the book on my bedside table at the moment, and
I can honestly say it's one of the most interesting and
thought-provoking titles I've come across. Dr Mack's previous
book, Abduction, caused a sensation when he endorsed the alien
abduction phenomenon, and spoke of his belief in the reality of
the alien contact experience. Passport To The Cosmos is bound to
be an even more controversial book. This is a very spiritual
book, and focuses on issu es such as the shamanic experience and
on other aspects of the wisdom and experience of indigenous
peoples. Running through the book is a concern about the
possibility of an ecological Armageddon which might yet destroy
us all. Dr Mack's academic credentials and scientific approach
mean that his views should not be dismissed by the sceptical
researchers who frequently complain that ufology lacks any
scientific methodology. Mack's findings can seem to be at odds
with the findings of researchers such as David Jacobs and Budd
Hopkins, who are convinced that the abduction experience is
fundamentally negative, and very much a one way relationship,
with the aliens taking what they want from us, without consent
(The popular theory being that they're harvesting genetic
material and using it in a programme to create human/alien
hybrids). To be fair, Mack doesn't dismiss the hybridisation
theory, and acknowledges the trauma, although he believes its
real cause has more to do with the 'shattering of abductees'
worldviews. Mack argues that we need to redefine our notion of
reality if we are to understand alien encounters - which he
believes reveal a
consistent environmental message.

Passport To The Cosmos is published by Crown Publishers at $24,
and should be available via the usual Internet book sites. For
more details of both the book and Dr Mack's work more generally,
I suggest you check out www.peer-mack.org.

Crop Circles
A book that I haven't yet got around to reading, but which might
appeal to readers, is Lucy Pringle's book, Crop Circles. Lucy
has been involved in crop circle research for many years, and
her book will doubtless be of interest to all those with an
interest in this intriguing subject. Her book is published by
Thorsons, and costs �16.99.

Another Book About Egypt
Sorry for the slightly sarcastic title of this piece, but you
can hardly move these days without coming across another book on
'New Egyptology'(a subject where the leading figures and
supporters are dubbed 'Pyramidiots'by more mainstream
researchers). Secret Chamber is the latest offering from Robert
Bauval, and although I haven't read it yet, it looks a pretty
impressive and comprehensive effort. It's published by Century
at �16.99.

The Real X-Files
There has been much recent speculation about whether or not the
MOD are about to release all their UFO files. I've already
written about this elsewhere, so won't repeat myself here.
Suffice to say that the next edition of UFO Magazine (published
on 9 December) will have a detailed report on this controversy.
There should already be something on their website,
www.ufomag.co.uk . Alternatively, check out the article I wrote
for my London Calling column at www.ufocity.com.

Phenomena
A lot of people are asking about the Phenomena World Tour -
designed to showcase some of the best UFO evidence and raise
public awareness. Again, the best source of information is UFO
Magazine and their website, but e-mail them direct at
bjbdzine@opera.iinet.net.au . The event premiers in Australia on
26 December, although details on the rest of the tour have not
yet been finalised. Let's hope it comes to the UK soon.

Cult Watch
Newspaper reports quote the FBI as warning that the danger from
millennial cults is ' very real. Israel is very much in the
front line, and has already expelled a number of religious
extremists who believe that the Second Coming can only take
place at the end of the world. Accordingly, there are fears that
some of these cults may try o precipitate Armageddon themselves,
in an attempt to bring about what they believe is prophesied in
the Bible. Thanks a bunch, people.

Christmas/Millennium Message
Finally, I'd just like to wish everybody a wonderful and truly
happy Christmas and New Year. I've certainly had my differences
with some people in this subject, but this is a time for setting
aside differences and focusing instead on how much we all have
in common. So whether you're a believer, a sceptic or an
agnostic, let's make a resolution to be less confrontational in
our approach to ufology. And let's not forget to enjoy our
subject, and have some fun! Party on, people!

Nick Pope December 99

Ed's Note:

Nick Pope's three books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited
and Operation Thunder Child are available from all good
bookshops. His UK publishers are Simon & Schuster. In America,
The Overlook Press publish his books in hardback while Dell
Publishing produce paperback editions.








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                    Nick Pope's Weird World January 2000

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:23:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:03:25 -0500
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World January 2000


NICK  POPE'S  WEIRD  WORLD
Jan 2000
www.hotgossip.co.uk


Happy new Millennium.  Yes, I know that technically speaking the
new Millennium doesn't begin until 2001, because there was no
"Year Zero".  But popular culture will always win out over a
dry, academic viewpoint, so party on! I hope you all had a good
one, and that in the words of the artist formerly known as
Prince, you partied like it was . well, 1999.  Good also to see
that all the scare stories over Y2K turned out to be just that,
and that civilisation as we know it didn't end (although my New
Year hangover suggested otherwise).  Anyway, Y2K hasn't affected
computers or corrupted any of my data, so
dh*e78ok�us%rk+kui77i5.  Only kidding!

OK, here's the latest batch of stories from the weird world of
ufology and the paranormal:


Electro-Magnetic Fields And Abductions

Over recent years ufologist Albert Budden has championed the
theory that electro-magnetic fields may be a factor in making
some people believe that they've been abducted by aliens.  His
work builds on the work of researchers such as Paul Devereux and
Michael Persinger, and suggests that these EM fields can not
only cause "earthlights" which are seen as UFOs, but trigger
hallucinations in people or induce altered states of
consciousness.  These in turn are given an outlet by means of
the popular culture, when somebody's belief system leads them to
interpret the experience in terms of aliens (or angels, or
ghosts, depending upon the individual).  He's tried to correlate
abductee reports with sources of EM pollution such as
transmission masts or pylons.  Budden's theories were given a
boost recently when a study carried out by scientists based at
Bristol University suggested that people living near to power
lines were receiving radiation doses up to eleven times the
recognised safety limit.  The study, led by Professor Denis
Henshaw, suggests that airborne pollutants are drawn to the
power cables and subsequently intensified by the EM fields
around the wires.  This in turn is something which many believe
makes it more likely that people will develop leukaemia or other
cancers.  Other scientists have already attacked the report and
questioned the data.  The Department of Health are currently
studying the report, so this is a story to watch.


The Unopened Files

Issue 14 of The Unopened Files goes on sale on 27 February, and
will thereafter be available on a bi-monthly basis.  It's an
excellent magazine packed with information on cover-ups,
conspiracies and information that some people would rather you
didn't know.  It's the sister publication of UFO Magazine, and
produced to the same high standard.  Why not take out a
subscription?


The Sci-Fi Files

A book that landed on my doormat for review the other day is the
newly updated tome The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction.  And
when it landed on my doormat, there was a resounding crash,
because it's a heavy book, even in its paperback form.  It has
over 4300 entries, and is helpfully cross-referenced where
appropriate.  It's an absolute must for all sci-fi fans, and
I've already had fun dipping into this wide-ranging and very
well-researched book.  It's edited by John Clute and Peter
Nicholls, and is published by Orbit at �25.


At War With Ufology

As the last Millennium ended and the new one began, ufology
reverted to type and found itself embroiled in more
unpleasantness.  Larry O'Hara and Steve Booth have co-authored a
136 page pamphlet about Tim Matthews.  Entitled At War With The
Universe it charts Tim's involvement with ufology and with
various well-known ufologists.  I've sent off for this
publication, not least because I get a mention or two, as do the
likes of Jenny Randles, Nick Redfern and Max Burns.  But I've
done this with a sense of regret at having to spend money on
what's bound to be a fundamentally negative (and quite possibly
libellous) book.  Don't get me wrong: I'm no great fan of Tim
and we've had our differences in the past.  But with the dawn of
the new Millennium I'd hoped that everybody (myself included)
might like to make a fresh start, set aside differences of
opinion and strive to make ufology a friendlier place where
different views are not just tolerated but actively welcomed and
encouraged.  Tim has already responded with a lengthy open
letter to the two authors, widely posted on all the usual
Internet sites.  I post this story here not to take sides or
promote the book, but simply because it's news.


Dreamland

Twentieth Century Fox have released a special X-Files video that
should be of particular interest to ufologists.  Entitled
Dreamland, it incorporates various popular ufological themes
such as Area 51, back-engineered alien technology and Men in
Black.  It's not available in the shops, and I had to order it
through a telephone line which involved having to key in my
credit card details at great length.  A few days later I
received a standard letter telling me that I'd supplied
insufficient details for my order to be processed.  I re-ordered
and was told that my bank had rejected the application.  When I
checked, this turned out to be nonsense.  After several more
telephone calls my video finally arrived, amusingly followed
several days later by two more standard letters saying my order
had been rejected. So come on, Twentieth Century Fox: sort this
mess out.  I dread to think how many other people's orders were
messed up and how many kids didn't get their videos in time for
Christmas, just because Fox didn't use a distribution system
that used people to take credit card bookings, and relied
instead on an automated telephone system that was time-consuming
and resulted in legitimate orders being rejected.  The video is
excellent, by the way. Check out www.thex-files.com for the
official website, and do a search on "X-Files" for a whole host
of other sites.


Open Skies, Closed Minds

It's traditionally very hard for British authors of UFO books to
break into the American market.  Timothy Good is one of the few
British authors to have made any impression in the US.  So I'm
pleased to say that my first book, Open Skies, Closed Minds, is
about to be released in the US as a mass-market paperback,
published by Dell Publishing at $5.99.  Dell published my second
book, The Uninvited, last year, reversing the order in which
they were published in the UK.  Both titles were already
available in the US in hardback, published by The Overlook
Press, but it's the release of a book in paperback, with a large
print-run, that really gets the message across.  I hope this
will help promote British ufology in America, where there can be
a very US-centric view of ufology (That's not to say that the
same applies in reverse).  I also hope this will make it easier
for other UK authors to break into the US market.  Ufology is a
global subject, and the more we see of what goes on in other
countries, the better.


UFO Files To Be Released?

The debate continues over whether or not there's to be an
imminent mass-release of MOD UFO files.  I've already commented
extensively on this, so won't repeat any of this.  There's an
excellent article on the controversy in the current
(January/February) issue of UFO Magazine, who posted my
statement on their website at www.ufomag.co.uk.  I also gave my
views on this to Peter Robbins.  His article and an earlier one
of mine can be found at the excellent www.ufocity.com.

Nick Pope, London, January 2000

Pope's three books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited and
Operation Thunder Child are available from all good bookshops.
His UK publishers are Simon & Schuster.  In America, The
Overlook Press publish his books in hardback while Dell
Publishing produce paperback editions.













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                 Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:12:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:33:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed


 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:17:51 +0000
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:58:58 -0800 (PST)
 >>From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >>Subject: Long-Withheld 'UFO' Documents Revealed
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Greetings list -

 >>From: http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/klass_nsa_000113.html

 >>Long-Withheld UFO Documents Revealed
 >>By Patrick Huyghe
 >>special to space.com
 >>posted: 02:43 pm EST
 >>13 January 2000
0
 >>The UFO controversy is full of strange stories, but this may be
 >>the strangest yet.

 >>Few people are aware that a few years ago, Philip Klass, the
 >>lone-gun UFO skeptic despised by believers as "the enemy",
 >>managed to do something that the most devoted researchers had
 >>attempted for years without success -- getting the super-secret
 >>National Security Agency (NSA) to release portions of its
 >>long-withheld UFO documents.

 >>The surprise move by Klass could have backfired, but instead has
 >>turned into a remarkable coup.

 >>The heart of the matter

 >>For the past two decades, the Holy Grail of those who believe
 >>the government is staging a massive cover-up of UFO evidence has
 >>been the 156 UFO-related documents that the NSA has refused
 >>since 1979 to release in any shape or form.

 >Hi,

 >This is all fascinating but can someone who has these documents
 >explain the things about the originally censored release that
 >intrigued me?

 >For example, why do the NSA refer to UFOs as 'surprise'
 >material? Is this terminology now simply explained?

 >Why was even the title of the research paper into UFOs,
 >referenced by the files, censored?

 >Have either of these questions been clarified by the new
 >release?

 >Best wishes,

 >Jenny Randles


Jenny-

 From the article I can't tell if these documents are really all
that "new". The NSA has waffled on this issue during the past
five years or so, and isn't used to the scrutiny that this genre
has generated from the public. Toward the end of 1977 they
placed a number of frequently requested documents on their web
page as part of the E-FOIA directive issued by President
Clinton, and they are still available at

http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/efoia/released/ufo.html

This material is also available on a CD-ROM that is being sold
by the Fund for UFO Research, and provides much faster access
than you'll find on a slow modem link.  When I put that CD
together I scanned through the material and found it
interesting, but there are no bombshells, per se. One document
that Stanton Friedman has discussed extensively in his writings
and presentations that was mostly blacked out has now been
re-evaluated and much of the blacked out portions have been made
visable.

If memory serves, the NSA actually denied having any UFO
material to release under the FOIA process until it was
referenced by other documents obtained from other federal
agencies.  This resulted in a very rocky start to the
relationship that developed between researchers and the NSA,
which normally operates behind a thick veil of secrecy.  If
Phil's request for documents helped to precipitate this release,
then he did us all a favor. However, there were law suits and
many other requests that have impacted this situation as well.

Steve







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                 Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?

From: Andy Roberts <Brigantia@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:37:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:36:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?


 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:11:55 +0000
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Livingston 1979 - The Bob Taylor Case?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Jenny wrote:

 >Not unless they changed hands recently. The (standard police
 >issue) trousers went for forensic tests by the police in 1979,
 >with limited results - but none that were counter the witness
 >testimony. After that they came into possession of BUFORA,
 >thanks to Malcolm Robinson who took over as Scottish coordinator
 >when I was forced to call for Steuart Campbell to leave my
 >investigation team.

Jenny is correct. One of the most holiest of UK ufological
relics - the Trousers of Truth as I like to call them - are
indeed in the possession of Malcolm Robinson.

They were last given an airing on a Carlton TV discussion show
in September 1998 when Malcolm brought them to the studio in
specially designed reliquary (oh, alright then, a briefcase).
Needless to say the TV presenter wasn't in the slightest bit
interested.

Incidentally should anyone want a copy of the latest Armchair
Ufologist (which features said TV show and trousers) I will be
pleased to email them a copy. All the latest scandal and gossip
about UK ufology, featuring BUFORA's demise, UFOs on TV, Max
Burns, LAPIS conference report, Berwyn Mountains, Tim Matthews,
general ufological nonsense. Makes Saucer Smear look like a
comic. Not for the faint hearted.

Happy Trails

Andy








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                  Sighting Report OZ File. 00475 12.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:59:18 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:40:20 -0500
Subject: Sighting Report OZ File. 00475 12.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File. 00475 12.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Doug Moffett AUFORN NSW
1800 Callin Code: 00475 12.01.2000

Date:  12.01.2000
Day: Wednesday
Time Reported:   1.25pm
Name:  Allan
Location: Sydney
Telephone number:
Given to investigator:  Doug Moffett UFOR NSW


Report:

Shape: Huge upturned funnel
Size: Approx three times that of a jumbo jet
Objects: 1
Colour:  Battleship grey, dull grey metallic texture, not highly
reflective
Sound: None
Speed: 10 knots against the wind
Duration:  To be confirmed
Direction: Moving East to West
Witnesses:  Flight crew and passengers of QANTAS International liner

Report:

In 1970-71 Allan was a flight engineer for QANTAS based in
London with 15000 hrs of flying time and was flying onto London
during a blue sky day at 33000 to 35000 feet when the flight
crew noticed an object like a �huge upturned funnel� at around
42000 to 43000 feet approximately 150 miles away.

The captain of the flight announced the UFO to the
passengers�for photo opportunities and general gawking
..indicating that the captain, flight crew and passengers all
felt in no way threatened or in danger.  The captain maintained
his course and did not divert. The plane approached the object
and flew under it at about a 45 degree angle.

 From underneath,  the base of the funnel did not appear round
but instead like a flattened elongated diamond.  The object had
no framework, no portholes, no doors or windows, and no visible
propulsion.

The object was confirmed by Shannon control, Ireland, on radar.
Winds at where the object was ie: 42,000,feet... travel from
West to East due to the Earth�s rotation thus eliminating the
possibility of a weather balloon.

While reading a staff magazine Allan read that a British Airways
crew had seen the same object on the same day on a flight from
London to Rio.

Allan had also heard since that a similar object was seen by
another QANTAS crew in Darwin at night somewhere between
1955-1965.

Allan clearly has excellent aviation knowledge and told me that
an object of that shape should not be able to fly in our
atmosphere.

End of Report.

Doug Moffett

AUFORN &
UFOR NSW

Thankyou Doug for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>








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                UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00467 10.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:07:23 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:49:54 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00467 10.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00467 10.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Doug Moffett AUFORN NSW

1800 Callin Code: 00467 10.01.2000

Date:  10.01.2000
Day: Monday
Time Reported:   8.20pm
Name:  Mr H
Location: Gordon (northern suburb of Sydney)
Telephone number:
Given to investigator:  Doug Moffett UFOR NSW


Report:

Shape: Light source
Size: Bright star size
Objects: 3
Colour:  Very bright orange
Sound: None
Speed: Faster than a planet..much slower than a plane
Duration:  5 to 6 minutes
Direction: Moving East to West
Witnesses: 3

Mrs H was the first to observe the objects, she later called her
husband and daughter.  She noticed one very bright orange object
moving slowly, then upon closer scrutiny saw two other objects
travelling in formation across the sky.  Two of the objects were
travelling one above the other, with the third below and
slightly behind the other two.  They kept this formation for the
duration of the sighting.  The distance between the objects was
approximated to be four fingers at arms length.  The lowest of
the objects was very low on the horizon and may not have been
visible to those with limited low horizon views.  Mrs H walked
slowly around the swimming pool in order to keep the objects in
sight, indicating that they were indeed travelling faster than a
planet.  The objects were much more orange than Mars, were not
twinkling and appeared high, like a satellite or star.  The
objects were seen at approximately 8pm.  There was very little
cloud that night and none in the direction of where the objects
were seen and there was a crescent Moon.  The object was lost to
view behind trees but also appeared to be moving into the far
distance. Neither  Mrs H or her husband were concerned about the
sighting although their daughter admitted to being �freaked�.
Mr H works with satellites in his profession as a remote sensing
geologist and is quite familiar as to how they should look and
act. In my investigation of the incident I spoke to East
Services who radar track the Sydney Metro Area and they informed
me no unusual air traffic was reported at that time..including
the Goodyear Blimp.  ABC Radio News had not received any reports
and neither had  Gordon Police Station.  Sydney observatory
likewise had not received any reports but did suggest that the
Mir space station was in orbit decay and was �rolling� , causing
it to flash as it rolled..which may explain some future
sighting�but not this one.  Sydney observatory also informed me
that once every 11 years the Earth is closest to the
sun..increasing the aurora activity at the poles, and that it
might be possible for those as far North as Southern NSW or even
perhaps Sydney to witness some of the auroral activity. Once
again food for thought for future sightings

End of Report.

Doug Moffett

AUFORN &
UFOR  NSW

Thankyou Doug for your Report


Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:45:45 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:56:28 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:26:20 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:13:22 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >I am still hoping Phil will include some chapters at the end
 >with balanced looks from learned commentators on such topics as
 >the Pittdown man and the Hitler diarys.  :)
 >All in the same league as Santilli and film if you ask me.


Piltdown Man and the Hitler Diary are proven hoaxes. Where is
your proof that Ray is anything but an honest businessman. How
did he pull it off? Where are the witnesses to the event?
Statements like yours are empty of content. As I've asked
other critics of the AA: what is your best evidence that this
is a hoax. Evidence, not hot air from another special effects
expert. Why not duplicate the debris, for starters?

I think the AA footage is a fantastic find and important
historical document.

We could be discussing the nature of the creature and debris
from his craft, not Ray Santilli's honesty.  He's just a player
in this drama.

Ed








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                   The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:40:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:02:50 -0500
Subject: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium


NOTICE:

Back by popular demand,

THE GREAT MID ATLANTIC MUFON SYMPOSIUM

If you are in the DC, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia
areas you might want to attend to hear Dr. David Jacobs, Dr.
Bruce Maccabee, Richard Hall, Robert Swiatek and others discuss
the latest in UFO sightings/abduction research.

Morning:   MUFON Investigators training session (also of
interest to others since it includes a discussion of techniques
whereby UFO sightings are investigated and photos/videos are
evaluated; examples will be presented).  Field Investigator
trainees in Maryland should try to attend this session (10 AM to
noon)

Afternoon:  lectures by experts in various aspects of ufology

Evening:  keynote lectures and panel discussion until "infinity"

All this PLUS  lunch buffet and mid-afternoon snack for only $55
for the whole day if you pay at the door.  SAVE $5.00... by
pre-registering before April 30.!!!

LOCATION: May 6, 2000 Holiday Inn, College Park. MD.

This is at the junction of the Beltway, 495, and Route 1,
immediately north of the beltway (like, 30 seconds from the
major highway). There are 20 rooms, king and double beds
available, being held for May 5 and May 6 at special price of
89+tax.  Make your own reservation at 301-345 -6700 for one
night or both nights. Tell the reservation desk you are
reserving a room for the Mutual UFO Network symposium on May 6.
This block of rooms will be available until the middle of April.
After that the price goes up to $99.00 or more + tax..

This is the major UFO symposium in the mid-Atlantic area.  Plan
now to attend.

Any questions, send to brumac@compuserve.com

We would appreciate it if you would acknowledge your intent to
come even if you don't pre-register (and save $5.00)








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                Filer's Files #02 - 2000 Political Awakening

From: George A. File <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:54:32 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:07:47 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #02 - 2000 Political Awakening


Filer's Files #02 --2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
January 13, 2000 -- Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. Chuck Warren Webmaster.

IS IT TIME TO MAKE UFOs A POLITICAL ISSUE?

On Tuesday, I was called by Heather Anne Harder, Ph.D., who is
running as a candidate for the President of the United States.
She was a genuinely nice person, but most important to
Ufologists she feels that research and openness in government is
needed concerning UFOs.  She says, "She knows UFO's exist." She
had her own personal sighting of strange lights that were
observed by 24 people.  This was followed by an unexplained
experience of missing time.  She is well aware that former
Governor Jimmy Carter also had a UFO sighting and made election
promises to find out what was going on, but after his election
no answers were given.  Even today, former President Carter
refuses to answer MUFON queries about his own personal sighting.
She vows to get some answers if she is elected. Although, MUFON
does not endorse any candidates for public office, Dr. Heather
Anne Harder is refreshing in that she understands the UFO
phenomenon.  It is delightful to talk to a person who
comprehends and acknowledges the American citizen's frustration
with the situation.  She promises that if she is elected, she
will demand some tough answers.  She will not accept the usual
sly remarks about UFOs from government employees that work for
us.  Dr. Harder feels we are being visited and contacted on a
regular basis by an alien presence and further research is
desperately needed.

Dr. Harder indicated that if the UFO community wants to be
heard, the presidential primaries provide the ideal forum. Each
candidate is fighting hard to get a small percentage of the
votes.  In states like New Hampshire and Iowa, one voice is
worth thousands perhaps tens of thousands of votes.  Once one of
these candidates is elected, we would have little chance of ever
talking to the new the President.  But each individual voter in
the primary takes on unique importance since so few participate
in the primaries.  Dr. Harder suggested that people interested
in UFOs, should show up at a caucus and the various meetings and
ask questions about UFOs from each candidate.  Astronaut Dr.
Edgar Mitchell stated, research into UFOs might be the most
important endeavor of mankind. Yet most candidates appear to
know little about the subject.  Ufology needs a presidential
candidate who will demand answers, and get the government
interested.  Most of you reading these files know that UFOs are
in our skies, and in some cases creating a safety hazard.  NASA
has spent some 20 billion dollars searching for life on Mars,
but refuses to admit the failure of 23 out of 31 probes could
have anything to do with UFOs.  They tell me they are not
interested in looking at the Soviet Phobus 2 film that shows a
UFO intercepting the probe near Mars.  I suggest we want some
answers, not condescending we know what is best for the millions
of UFO enthusiasts.  It seems most of the candidates say the
same thing.  Perhaps its time to listen to someone like Dr.
Harder who will support our cares and needs.  These files are
sent to all the presidential candidates and she is the first one
to contact me.  So naturally I'm flattered.  She feels the
campaign needs citizen participation rather than lobbyists
deciding what's best for you.  Dr. Harder wants to have honest
and healthy mechanisms for citizen participation to reclaim the
government and reestablish it as being for the People.  She
wants to empower the American people to become the ultimate
stabilizing force as the fourth branch of democratic government.
Although, MUFON does not support any candidate for public
office, Dr. Heather Harder is interested in UFOs and how this
relates to the average citizen.

NEW JERSEY DISC CAUGHT ON DIGITAL CAMERA

WILLINGBORO -- Jerry Kirk sent me a disc of several shots of a
UFO sighting that occurred on January 5, 2000, at 4:43 PM.  The
two original digital views were shot with a Polaroid PDC
digital camera without the benefit of magnification on Sussex
Drive just east of Philadelphia. There was another aircraft
flying in the same direction, east by northeast.  The disc
shots show a cylindrical UFO without wings or tail assembly.
Although trees are visible in the bottom of the photographs it
is difficult to estimate the UFOs altitude.  The craft appeared
to head towards the Atlantic Ocean at 25,000 to 35,000 feet or
5 to 10,000 feet above the regular air traffic.  Additional
magnification applied to these images, does not bring out any
wings or tail structure. Thanks to Jerry Kirk. The images can
be viewed at www.filersfiles.com.  This type of UFO is being
observed on a regular basis and has been involved with near
misses with our commercial aircraft.  Similar craft were
observed five hours earlier in Pennsylvania.

PENNSYLVANIA THREE CYLINDER SHAPED UFOs

EXTON -- The National Reporting Center reports three cylinder
shaped objects were viewed moving east to west, at 9:50 AM on
January 5, 1999. The witness was walking his dog and looked up
to see an unidentified flying cylinder without wings.  He
checked his dog and looked up again to see two more cylinder
shaped objects.  The witness said, "They looked like white cans
with two rings in black on each craft with no wings or tail
section visible."  The first and smaller craft did not fly as
straight as the other two.  The last two were about the same
size but larger than the first.  Thanks to Peter Davenport and
NUFORC. Editor's Note: Editors Note: The photos in New Jersey
and the Pennsylvania description appear to be similar objects.
Craft were observed on the same day both East and West of
Philadelphia about 50 miles a part.

INVESTIGATION OF SEPTEMBER FLORIDA SIGHTINGS

TAMPA - MUFON State Section Director Lorraine Gerber writes,
people all over Florida were reporting fast moving, some slow
moving and even hovering objects on September 7, 1999. These
objects were observed in some cases for up to ten minutes from
Navarre in north Florida to Miami in the south.  NASA and NORAD
said the UFO reports were caused by the reentry of a spent SL
12 Russian booster rocket body moving from the Northwest to
Southeast across the US at about 5:00 a.m. The primary MUFON
investigators were Phil Bayly, Bob and Jimmy Kruse, Polly Bryan
and myself.  Phil Bayly, former Air Force officer and lead
investigator calculated the 17,000 mph reentry speed to have
placed the object over Florida for only one and a half minutes.
Investigator's reports showed that witnesses had observed
objects going west to south, east to west, south to east to
north for extended periods. With the help of the UFO Reporting
Center, Malcolm Hawthorn, and Art Bell witnesses were located
who gave detailed accounts of their sightings. Some of the
sightings reported by UFORC included: Cigar shaped object over
St. Petersburg at 5:10 a.m., "Something strange in the sky."
At Tavares at 5:04 a.m. a   Cigar shaped object with three
lights.  Orlando, 3:00 a.m. a fireball.  South Miami, 5:03
a.m., three blue-green spheres, (two separate reports).
Poinciana, Lake Wales, Lake Helen, Kissimmee, 5:05 a.m., saw
what appeared to be a meteor breaking up.  Changed shape to 13
balls of light with and without tails, red, yellow, green,
blue.  Ocoee at 5:05 a.m. saw five upright disks traveling
south at low altitude and medium speed with light beams
directly between each disk.

Ruling out some of the fast moving objects that traveled from a
north to a south direction, Bayly profiled some of the more
questionable cases that were investigated by our MUFON group as
well as two that Ann Lieberman, SSD from Venice investigated.
He found that they did not fit into the Russian debris reentry
profile.  The following are some of those cases: In Tampa, a
witness, Dr. Lynn Sayne, was bringing his newspaper in at 5:00
a.m. when he saw an object going from the south to north then
east, moving in an irregular pattern as it changed directions.
He said that the object was not streaking. He also said that
there were six F-16s in flight and three had experienced the
loss of their electronics.  Sayne said, "In a period of five to
eight seconds their aircraft systems completely shut down."  He
was aware of the fact that Tampa emergency vehicles were also
alerted.  At 5:00 a.m., two witnesses in Seminole reported
seeing an object just above the tree line only 300 to 400 feet
away.  After changing shapes three times, it was last seen as a
saucer shaped object 75 feet wide forming a cloud around it in
a cloudless sky, and going straight up until it disappeared
from view.  This sighting also lasted several minutes. In St.
Petersburg, Isle Del Sol, a witness was awakened at 3:08 a.m.
with a silvery white light illuminating her bedroom.  She
looked out her window and saw two huge balloon-shaped spheres
gliding northeast over Boca Ciega Bay that were six times the
size of the moon.

Three witnesses reported seeing a cigar like object in the west
that hovered and moved slightly.  One witness coming from Port
Charlotte to Sarasota from 4:45 to 5:00 a.m., observed an
object for five minutes at 1000 yards away, about 800 to 850
feet altitude. The object had windows in � of its left section
and was 225 feet wide.  It had a white strobe-like light at the
nose and a blue one at the rear bottom.  As a retired fire
fighter, he thought it was a jetliner crashing and that he
should stop to see if he could pinpoint the crash site.  It
hovered and moved slightly towards the south while he watched
for five minutes.  He also saw emergency vehicles circling the
area.  Another witness driving west from Myakka State Park saw
a similar object for several minutes.  A third witness driving
west from Arcadia saw a comparable object in the west.  A
significant sighting was reported from Lutz at 5:15 AM, when an
illuminated object moved west and five airborne objects moved
toward it as if to intersect.  The first object got smaller
until it finally was seen bursting out and then imploding as it
disappeared.  The witness saw a total of 15 aircraft in the
area some for ten minutes.  A witness at 5:00 a.m. in Englewood
saw what he described as "six jumbo jets flying together in
unison," illuminating each other, "but they were not aircraft."
They were fast moving objects going from north to south over
the gulf, but not an object reentering our atmosphere. Bayly
acquired video footage shot by a John Vye and shown September
7th on Channels 9 and 13 (FOX TV).   MUFON is trying to contact
Mr. Vye.  In a frame by frame analysis, Bayly asserts that the
object is doing a barrel roll, first one way and then in the
opposite direction.  Reentering debris would not make this kind
of maneuver.  After careful analysis Bayly ruled out the
possibility that these sightings were the result of a
reentering booster rocket body.  Bayly concluded that his
findings on some of the cases do not support NASA's or NORAD's
explanation. Thanks to Lorraine Gerber.

ALABAMA UFO

MADISON -- Aaron Crossley says that on January 7, 2000, I saw
an unidentified flying object on my way to the bowling alley
with my friends Tyler, Daniel, David and Jessica. It was about
8:45 PM, when a bright blue light caught my eye.  "It was
extremely bright like a blue fireball, and it streaked across
the sky from south to north horizon in a second." It was moving
incredibly fast. If I had blinked I would miss it. After I
asked my friends if they had seen it, which sadly they had not,
Tyler told me that he had seen exactly the same thing last year
while delivering Pizzas, except there were three of them when
he saw them, and they appeared to be flying in V formation.  I
have to wonder if Alabama is part of some secret projects
flight plan. And what better place given the reputation of its
native residents. I hear numerous UFO stories around here now
that I've come out with mine.  Thanks to Aaron Crossley
raverkid@earthlink.net.

MICHIGAN GREEN FIREBALL

THREE RIVERS -- Alan Otterson reports that on January 7, 1999,
I was watching TV with my wife with our inside lights on. Alans
says, "I was surprised to see streaking by our window a very
bright lime green fireball heading toward the north."  I jumped
up and dashed to the door and saw it vanish. Shortly after I
saw another bright light goldfish in color just above the
treetops across the field from us. This light slowly and I mean
very slowly moved southeast toward Three Rivers, Michigan.
There wasn't any noise. Thanks to Alan D. Otterson
alancath@gte.net

ILLINOIS FLYING ARROWHEAD SEEN BY POLICE

SAINT CLAIR COUNTY -- In the early hours of January 5, 2000,
police dispatchers started receiving numerous reports of a huge
slow moving craft that resembled an arrowhead just east of St.
Louis.  It had an unusual sprinkling of lights defined as a
starfield camouflage with three bright lights on the tail.
Milstadt police officers responded to complaints and at least
four policemen claim to have observed the huge craft. The
object was similar to a flying wing or flying triangle with
small twinkling lights that appeared to be designed to
camouflage the craft from observers on the ground. Lebanon,
Shiloh, Highland and Dupo police officers reportedly sighted
the large flying object.  Scott Air Force Base is near by but
the tower was closed at that time of night. The craft had three
brighter lights on its tail, and flew from the
northeast-to-southwest across the Metro East area about 4:00
AM.  The craft was described as two stories high and about
three times as long.  The police searched various web sites to
attempt to find likeness of the craft.  The only craft that
appeared similar was the photo of a "Stealth Blimp" on the
Popular Mechanics Web site. Thanks to Mark Scott and Ken Young
who has a likeness of the photo at
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/camouflage1.html and Millstadt Police
http://millstadtpolice.homepage.com/aircraft.html

MISSOURI UFO SPOTTED BY AIRLINE CREW

SPRINGFIELD -- While flying a B757 a commercial flight at
33,000 feet from LAX to CLT on December 26, 1999, the two
pilots and two flight attendants were observing an earth
satellite-passing overhead from the cockpit. It was well past
sunset at about 7:00 PM CST. The earth satellite apparently
flew into the terminator and disappeared while high overhead.
The witness stated, "Within a moment or so, a white-lighted
object overtook and passed us in fairly close proximity making
at least 200 knots more than we were."  Our airspeed was .80
Mach and our ground speed was 483 knots or 550mph. The object
was first noted south of our west to east course at a distance
estimated to be from about 2 to 5 miles.  It appeared to be at
nearly the same or a slightly higher altitude. The object
showed only a bright white light that appeared to be slightly
disturbed by turbulence, or very slightly pulsating. Its course
appeared constant, as did its altitude. It passed us and faded
rather quickly from sight in about forty seconds.

A query was made to Memphis Center ARRTC as to any possible
traffic. The controller said he had nothing on his scope that
could be what we saw. We saw nothing on our TCAS, set to
observe other transponders within 4,000 feet of our altitude
and within 20 miles of horizontal distance. No red (left wing)
position light and no fuselage red rotating beacons were
sighted by any of the witnesses. No magnetic or electrical
disturbances on our aircraft occurred. At least one passenger
noted the object pass by our craft from the passenger cabin.
Thanks to Peter Davenport at the National UFO Reporting Center,
www.ufocenter.com Editor's Note: Generally, radar operators are
told not to confirm UFOs and to keep other traffic away.

MEXICO VIDEO

MONTERREY -- Gary Carson wrote, "Recently, on or about the
January 4, 2000, the TV Azteca  3 o'clock News filmed a UFO,
motionless near Monterrey."  It was visible for about 10
minutes, then took off. This was my closest encounter ever, and
I was thrilled. The anchorwoman was Rosa Maria De Castro and
the footage was pretty clear.  It was sort of hat-shaped object
and dark in color in the clear blue sky. I enjoy your site and
respect your integrity. Thanks to Gary Carson
gcferrone@hotmail.com

NEW ZEALAND SIGHTINGS

AUCKLAND -- UFO Researcher Karen Lyster writes, I thought I'd
pass along a few UFO sightings.  A witness reports, that on
December 29,  my step son and his fiancee, who  live with us,
were awakened in the middle of the night by strange noises. Two
nights later on January 1, 2000, I was awakened by a noise and
a red glow outside with an intermittent white flash.  I thought
new years fireworks, but it was 3:00 AM.  I tried to get up to
investigate but found I could not move, I tried to wake my
partner but could not, my next recall was that it was daylight
some three hours later.

AUCKLAND -- Peter writes: "My 17 year old son rang me at 12:30
AM on January 1, 2000, not to wish me a Happy New Year, but to
tell me of his experience with UFO's!" He was standing on the
roof of a five story carpark in downtown Auckland with a
hundred other people, overlooking the Viaduct Basin where the
band Split Enz were conducting a New Year's Eve concert.  The
band counts down to 2000 ...3, 2, 1!  Suddenly, two red discs
appear high up in the sky above and behind the stage. People
seemed frightened by the discs.  The UFOs moved left and then
descended at an acute angle. The crowd on the roof top moves
back in fear.  By then, the fireworks have started, and while
thousands if not millions of people focus on the big bangs and
pyrotechnics, the disks disappear from view behind a tall
building.  The discs were 'big' and remain the same distance
apart as they moved.  Some of the frightened crowd on the
rooftop start running towards the lift. A natural instinct
fueled by fear.  The discs were in view for about 8 seconds.
During the fireworks display more red discs appear in the sky
and hover for a few moments before disappearing. Part of the
display involves red flares but these were distinguishable from
the discs by their telltale smoke trails and their descent to
the ground. One of the discs appears to land on a Naval ship
anchored in Auckland harbor.  The total sightings lasted for
about seven minutes.

BEACHLANDS -- Peter writes: "I was driving back to Maraetai to
deliver a paper to a subscriber who missed out and saw a
horizontal flying cylinder at 7:25 AM on January 10, 2000.  It
had three segments of white with one segment at each end and
one in the middle.  It was high above Waiheke Island and
traveling slowly toward Auckland.  What struck me immediately,
was the three segments of this 'plane.' They were silvery white
rectangles, one at each end and one in the middle. It was about
an inch and a half long from my perspective and relatively
thin. I stopped the car to have a decent look but it may have
gone behind the gorgeous clouds this morning.  Thanks to Peter
and Researcher Karen Lyster at
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2301/Directory.ht
ml

"A UFO BOOM DOES'T WORRY CHINA'S RULERS

That was the headline on a front page article in the January
11, 2000, New York Times.  The Times is the nation's leading
newspaper, and long ago decided UFOs were not a topic that fits
their masthead motto: "All the news that's fit to print."  In
recent years they have carried only two UFO-related stories.
One was a sarcastic dismissal of UFO sightings in Russia, which
they attributed to a resurgence of pre-Communist mysticism.
The other was a long report on the Air Force "investigation" of
the Roswell Incident, unquestioningly repeating the assertion
that the 1947 fuss was caused by a Mogul balloon.  Oddly, the
China story is treated "straight," without the usual demeaning
language.  According to the Times, there have been a large
number of UFO sightings in China, and these are studied by
several research organizations that are very "mainstream" in
their scientific approach.  Apparently the government is
supportive of this research and interest, as distinguished from
the official condemnation of various semi-religious movements.

         "Indeed, a large portion of China's UFO enthusiasts are
         scientists and engineers, not the sci-fi buffs or
         apocalyptic stargazers who are the stereotype in the
         United States.  Many of China's UFO research societies
         require a college degree and published research for
         membership.  The Chinese Air Force attends important
         UFO meetings."  And quoting a leader of Chinese UFO
         research, "In the US, scholars investigating this are
         under pressure and have been derided.  But in China the
         academic discussion is quite free, so in this area
         American academics are quite jealous of us." The
         article ends with another quote that should be taken to
         heart by American UFO researchers. "We're very careful
         and cautious to present things scientifically and to
         filter out things that head in a superstitious
         direction, since there's a great deal of fakery in the
         UFO field as well as real occurrence." Thanks to
         researcher Bob Durant.

NASA DIDN'T TELL LOCKHEED ABOUT CANYON


D E N V E R - The Associated Press reports, The vanished Mars
Polar Lander probably broke apart in a canyon, The Denver Post
reported January  6, citing scientists who suggested the
landing site was the reason for NASA's latest failure.  The
$165 million lander was supposed to touch down Dec. 3 for a
90-day mission to analyze the planet's atmosphere and search
for frozen water beneath its south pole. It has not been heard
from since it started its descent after an 11-month cruise, and
NASA has not offered a reason for the disappearance.  Members
of the Lockheed Martin team who maneuvered the craft to Mars
believe a canyon nearly a mile deep and 6 miles wide in some
places was the landing site, the Post reported, citing an
unidentified source at the aeronautics company who was on the
mission team.  Orbiter Burned Up The source relied on
"probable" landing coordinates posted online by NASA and its
Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Lab officials acknowledged that they
knew the canyon was in the area.  "We believe we landed in a
region that was in the vicinity (of the canyon), but we have no
way of knowing whether it hit those slopes," said Daniel
McCleese, the Mars Surveyor Program scientist at JPL.  The loss
of the lander came less than three months after bungled
communications between Lockheed and JPL caused the Mars Climate
Orbiter to burn up in the Martian atmosphere.  Lockheed
scientists were reportedly surprised to learn that the canyon
was inside the lander's projected landing zone. During the
mission, Lockheed scientists steered the craft under JPL
direction. "No one on our side knew that canyon was there," the
Lockheed source told the Post. "All of the sudden, two weeks
later, we got this MOLA data" - topographical maps and images -
"and it was like, 'Look at that hole!'" Thanks to Jan 6, Denver
Post.

Editor's Note: Hundreds of Millions of dollars have been lost
because of NASA's apparent unwillingness to share data with
Lockheed.  The Lockheed scientists would also be surprised to
learn that this area on Mars has features that appear to be
artificially formed assuming they are not a combination of
pixilization and transmission errors.  They have been given
descriptive names by NASA such as Nod and Inca City. The Inca
City area located at 81.8�S - 59.1�W, has many rectangular
walled areas each about 4 miles across similar to the ancient
cities in Peru.  Interestingly, the Inca's believe they were
visited by spacemen and celebrate with spinning wheels that
look like UFOs. The site at Nod appears to be an ancient
cultural site with structures. Nod appears to  have been used
for growing plants and producing oxygen since the site is on
the edge of snow and ice fields composed of carbon dioxide at
83�S 43�W.  NASA's name for Nod is the location Cain was sent
to wander by God in Genesis 4.  My speculation is that NASA has
found evidence of ancient intelligent life on Mars, but can not
make an announcement until its probes are successful.

Researcher Carl Feindt has a new web site based on UFO's seen
near water at www.waterufo.net.   The site was built by Chuck
Warren and is well worth viewing.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems. $10.00

THREE YEARS OF FILER'S FILES -- 1997, 1998, and 1999 on CD or
Floppy Disc for only $25.00. The cost includes handling and
shipping. An index is included. Send a check to George Filer,
222 Jackson Road Medford, New Jersey 08055.

Free Daily UFO/ET Newsletter via E-mail!
http://www.ufonetwork.com/

US GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO
Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign
Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now
available for distribution to the public.  Sam Sherman's audio
documentary tape called EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the
night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings
provided by the Air Force.  During this event 12 high tech
luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over
the runways at Edwards AFB.  Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels
spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command.  Sgt.
Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment
where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival
recordings.  The UFOs are described and a decision is made to
launch F-106 fighter interceptors.  You are there for an
important part of UFO history.  Hear it for yourself, it's the
best UFO tape ever made.  Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00
for shipping -- total $16.95 -- (for overseas orders-out of US
- add $6.00 shipping cost -- total -- $20.95) you can send
either a personal check or money order to: Independent
International Pictures Corp, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New
Jersey 08857.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership.  Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants
permission for us to publish. Please state if you wish to keep
your name or story confidential,
















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   Jan > Jan 14

                 Re: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:14:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:26:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium

 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:40:10 -0500
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium
 >To: UFO Updates -Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >NOTICE:

 >Back by popular demand,

 >THE GREAT MID ATLANTIC MUFON SYMPOSIUM

 >If you are in the DC, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia
 >areas you might want to attend to hear Dr. David Jacobs, Dr.
 >Bruce Maccabee, Richard Hall, Robert Swiatek and others discuss
 >the latest in UFO sightings/abduction research.

<snip>

Bruce-

Keep me in mind if you need some help with the Audio/Visual.  We
mentioned this upcoming event at the FUNDs EC meeting on
Saturday.

I may even want to video the event this year, if I can, but we
can talk about that later.

Steve








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                 Re: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:17:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:28:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The Great Mid-Atlantic MUFON Symposium


I had intended to send the previous message privately to Bruce
and apologise for the waste of Internet bandwidth.

Steve







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                     Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:14:15 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 08:51:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction


Dear list,

The e-mail address for "National Geographic" provided in the
last post was in error.  The correct address is:

ngsforum@nationalgeographic.com

I apologize for those of you who took the time to write.  I urge
you to correct "National Geographic's" premature assertion that
the Face is a natural landform.  Though this may be the case, we
_don't know yet_.

(Letters containing names and addresses have a chance of being
included in the "Forum" section of future issues.  Perhaps if a
reader response is sufficiently wide, a productive dialogue on
the matter can be established.)

--Mac

[text of my own letter follows]

Dear National Geographic,

I was very disappointed in your January article on
extraterrestrial life, which dismisses the alleged "Face on
Mars" as a mere "rocky mesa."

I wonder if you are aware of the very interesting work done by
Dr. Mark Carlotto and other members of the Society for Planetary
SETI Research.  SPSR is comprised of an assortment of Ph.Ds in
topics from digital image processing to planetology, and their
efforts to get to the bottom of the Face, and other anomalies in
the Cydonia Mensae region, have been perfectly
rational--certainly not the musings of the "true believers" you
refer to.

In the meantime, artificiality remains a perfectly valid
hypothesis, as does the conventional explanation that we are
essentially reading fictitious "anomalies" into natural
features.

I urge you to withdraw your premature (and degrading) appraisal
of the Face and perhaps investigate this issue a bit more
thoroughly.

Sincerely,








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   Jan > Jan 15

                  35,000 Pound NASA Observatory Splashdown?

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:36:10 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 08:57:41 -0500
Subject: 35,000 Pound NASA Observatory Splashdown?


Huge NASA telescope may be headed for fiery descent to splash
landing

The observatory was launched in 1991

January 14, 2000 Web posted at: 7:49 p.m. EST (0049 GMT)

 From Space Correspondent Miles O'Brien

GREENBELT, Maryland (CNN) -- After nearly nine years in space, a
35,000 pound NASA observatory in low-Earth orbit may be destined
for a fiery descent into the Pacific Ocean near Hawaii this
spring.

"We have formed a team to see if we need to bring it down in a
controlled reentry," says Preston Burch, deputy program manager
for space science operations at NASA's Goddard Space Flight
Center.

In early December, the $600 million Compton Gamma-Ray
Observatory lost one of its gyroscope systems, leaving it with
the minimum of two required to conduct scientific observations.
Engineers running the program at Goddard are uncertain if they
need two operative gyroscopes to safely steer the satellite away
from population centers.

The question is: Can we tolerate another failure?" said Burch.
"If the answer is yes, then we can continue (in orbit)
indefinitely."

But if the answer is "no," NASA will try to steer Compton down
into the Pacific near Hawaii on March 14.

"The debris field is significant," according to Burch. According
to engineering estimates, it will be 26 kilometers (16 miles)
wide by 1,552 kilometers (962 miles) long -- putting
approximately 40,000 square kilometers (24,800 square miles) of
ocean in harm's way.

Launched from the space shuttle Atlantis on April 5, 1991, the
Compton Gamma-Ray Observatory was designed to orbit for at least
two years gathering information on electromagnetic radiation --
shedding light on the origins of the universe. While the
scientific observations continue, the staff -- and the funding
-- are currently very lean.

Compton is the heaviest unclassified satellite ever deployed by
a space shuttle. The Hubble Space Telescope, launched in April
of 1990, weighs 10,000 pounds less, despite being larger.

Unlike Hubble, Compton was not designed to be serviced by
astronauts in its 270 mile orbit.

Engineers are busy culling old records and faded memories to
determine if Compton can fly on safely. On February 16, they
will report their findings to NASA managers. Unless they can
allay concerns about an uncontrolled descent (a la Skylab), they
will decide at that time to bring the telescope down on March
14.

"We are putting a full court press on this." says Burch. "This
is as fast as we can make it happen."

  � 2000 Cable News Network. All Rights Reserved.








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                  Sighting Report OZ File 00469 10.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:54:31 +1100
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:01:07 -0500
Subject: Sighting Report OZ File 00469 10.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00469 10.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Doug Moffett AUFORN NSW
1800 Callin Code: 00469 10.01.2000

Date:  25.12.1999
Day: Saturday
Time seen:   9.00pm
Name:  Peter
Location: Kogarah
Telephone number:
Given to investigator:  Doug Moffett UFOR NSW

Report:

Shape: Round
Size: Star size
Objects: 1
Colour: Dull white colour
Sound: None
Speed: Satellite at straight line... twice as fast when
        zig-zaging
Duration: 15 seconds
Direction: Moving North East direction
Witnesses: None

  Report:

Peter was at his parent�s place in the back yard just finishing
a cigarette when he noticed a dull white light travelling at
plane speed at about 45 degree�s above the horizon.  The object
travelled in a straight line for about 10 seconds before going
up and down in a �drunken zig zaging line�. The object had a
definite side to side movement as it zig zaged up and down.  The
range of the movement from the original course was estimated to
be about four fingers either side of the original course.  This
course movement was performed at approximately twice as quick as
the linear movement.  The zig zaging continued about four times
during the last five seconds of the sighting.  The appearance of
the object during the zig zag was one of a definate wobble.  The
object covered about five degree�s of sky during the sighting.
The object seemed to be charting a course along the coast
line..heading North.  The light source was lost to the witness
as it entered a large cloud.  The witness was an amateur
astronomer and has good knowledge of satellites and the night
sky.  This report was very similar to a report i took from Jan
1981-1983 when a group of witness's at South West Rocks near
Kempsey (North Coast NSW) saw a satellite like object travelling
in a straight line..then moved at great pace to change
course..before re correcting to the original course and then
leaving into the disatnce at incredible speed.

End of Report.

Doug Moffett

AUFORN &
UFOR NSW

Thankyou Doug for this Report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>








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                  Sighting Report OZ File 00478 14.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 23:00:02 +1100
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:02:50 -0500
Subject: Sighting Report OZ File 00478 14.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00478 14.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Doug Moffett AUFORN NSW
1800 Callin Code: 00478 14.01.2000

Date:  13.01.2000
Day: Thursday
Time seen: 10.55pm
Name: Jason
Location: Mt Warrigal
Telephone number:
Given to investigator: Doug Moffett UFOR NSW

Report:

Shape: Round light source
Size:  Bright star size
Objects: 3
Colour:  Pinkish red
Sound: None
Speed: Stationary for 10 minutes then 200ft per second approx
Duration:  20 minutes
Direction: Moving North East direction
Witnesses:  One other

Report:

Jason was returning from a fishing trip with his uncle when they
noticed three pinkish red objects travelling in vertical
formation with the lowest of the objects slightley behind the
upper two.  The sighting was divided into two separate
categories.  The first when the three objects were apparently
stationary,  with the lowest object performing intermittant
random pulsing.  The distance between the objects was
approximately four fingers at arms length and they held
formation for the first ten minutes.  During the second 10
minutes the upper two objects faded and the lowest and brightest
object started  to �skip upwards then return to its original
position� ..this was seen four times at approximately every 2.5
minutes.  The speed of this (as estimated by Jason who holds a
private pilots liceance) was approx 200 feet per second.  The
height of the three objects were..in descending
order�3000ft..2500ft and 2000ft.  The bottom light source was
approximately 30 degree�s above the horizon.  The object was
lost to the witness�s as it moved behind a large cloud base.
Jason was adamant that it was no aircraft or helicopter.  Jason
and his uncle were �awestruck� by the experience.  There are
obvious similarities between this callin and callin code 00467.
Both party�s have been contacted to let each other know they are
not the only one�s to see these objects.

End of Report.

Doug Moffett

AUFORN &
UFOR NSW

Thankyou Doug for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>









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                     Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 06:09:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:21:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction


 >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:14:15 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Dear list,

 >The e-mail address for "National Geographic" provided in the
 >last post was in error.  The correct address is:

 >ngsforum@nationalgeographic.com

 >I apologize for those of you who took the time to write.  I urge
 >you to correct "National Geographic's" premature assertion that
 >the Face is a natural landform.  Though this may be the case, we
 >_don't know yet_.

<snip>

Dear Mac:

I think this list has been more than tolerant of your minority
viewpoints in the Cydonia matter.

My (personal) view is that Cydonia is an assortment of natural
features, so we can agree to disagree.

There must come a point, however, where any one-man campaign to
bring this all up again becomes distasteful.

If you and others feel that Cydonia is worth more serious study,
I feel the burden of proof lies on your side. In the meantime, I
do not mind your posts, especially since the list is slow just
about now.

Nevertheless, some may object to a barrage of Cydonia emails
when they thought this matter were behind them.

I suppose it is a matter of cost-benefit ratios really:

NASA, Malin SSS (pick an agency) must necessarily ask themselves
whether to prove, over and over, that this pile of rocks is a
pile of rocks... or to do some more interesting science
elsewhere.

Functional Mars probes are hard to come by these days, and none
of them come cheap.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

= = = = = = =









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                   Katharina Wilson Is Leaving The Field?

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:54:13 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:25:00 -0500
Subject: Katharina Wilson Is Leaving The Field?


Hi All,

I am not sure if this has been posted but I just heard that
Researcher-Author Katharina Wilson is leaving the field?


Anyone know why?

Check out Alien Jigsaw:

http://www.alienjigsaw.com

Regards,

Roy..









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                     Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:30:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:59:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction


 >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 06:09:16 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:14:15 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Dear list,

 >>The e-mail address for "National Geographic" provided in the
 >>last post was in error.  The correct address is:

 >>ngsforum@nationalgeographic.com

 >I think this list has been more than tolerant of your minority
 >viewpoints in the Cydonia matter.

 >My (personal) view is that Cydonia is an assortment of natural
 >features, so we can agree to disagree.

 >There must come a point, however, where any one-man campaign to
 >bring this all up again becomes distasteful.

<snip>


Hi Larry,

I'm sure glad someone said something on this subject because for
the past few day's I've done nothing but bite my tongue.

Of course it is a pile of rocks, I think I'm quite safe in
assuming most people think along these lines, here's an idea...
how about we just move on, huh?

Talking of silly subjects I see the Pelicans have raised their
feathered heads again.

Is this all ufology boils down to? Raking over the old coals, a
previous belief turns out to be wrong but these type of people
just won't let it, go will they?

All the best,

Dave








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                           Information Request...

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:25:24 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:49:41 -0500
Subject: Information Request...



Does anyone onlist know whether two Orbiting Astronomical
Observatory (OAO) spacecraft, both launched in the mid to late
1960's, are still in orbit or have self destructed in re-entry?

First launch was on or about 1965. The second spacecraft
launched on or about 1969.  Both failed due to stabilization
problems.

Please advise off-list.  Information is needed for book research
in progress.

Jim Mortellaro








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                     Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 13:29:48 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:56:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction


 >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 06:09:16 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:14:15 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Dear list,

 >>The e-mail address for "National Geographic" provided in the
 >>last post was in error.  The correct address is:

 >>ngsforum@nationalgeographic.com

 >>I apologize for those of you who took the time to write.  I urge
 >>you to correct "National Geographic's" premature assertion that
 >>the Face is a natural landform.  Though this may be the case, we
 >>_don't know yet_.

<snip>


 >I think this list has been more than tolerant of your minority
 >viewpoints in the Cydonia matter.

 >My (personal) view is that Cydonia is an assortment of natural
 >features, so we can agree to disagree.


Dear Listerines, Hatches Et, Al, especially you - and Mrs.
Kalabash, wherever they took her.....

The last thing in the world which I desire, is to disagree with
my good friend Lawrence of Hatch.  For one thing, and as many of
you older folks know, Wilbur of Hatch was a very famous
composer.  As I recall, he was the old Hatch whose orchestra did
the Lucille Ball and Dizzy Arnats theme show.

Anyway, I do not agree with your opinion, Sir.  Reason? God man.
Wasn't it just a few days ago, just a few small posts ago, that
someone pointed us all to the web site of a conspiracy theorist
who proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that there _was_ reason to
believe that at least one person of portfolio was on Mars.  Make
that at least two, because someone had to snap the photo.

And is it not true that this very same person was photographed
at the assassination of the President who would have been the
future Mr. Monroe?  Huh?

This _alien_ beast, this lizard person,  one of them slope
headed (my apologies to Ms. Leanne Martin) French impersonating
Cone Heads, is none other than the Evil Bert.

Lawrence, you better stop drinking that artificial Gripple. It
is not good for you.  Alls you hadda do was tell me and I
would've sent some of my real Gripple.  I made some special for
my listers, it's called Gratis Gripple.

You are probally wondering why I call it "Gratis" Gripple, eh?
Eh?  I call it that because researchers as a rule are not only
fipflop flammers, but cheap.  I mean _CHEAP_! So I had to invent
something really tasty, effective and inexpensive for me to
distribute to those who would pinch pennies.  Hell, I can even
give it away, and make money.

Now Sir Lawrence of Hatch, aren't yous ashamed of yourself?

Dr. J. Jaime (as in High Me) Gesundt
Proprietor

PS: Sir Lawrence of Hatch is NOT a researcher, which is why I
like him.  He may call hisself one, but I think of him as - well
- just a normal guy.  Normal.  And his cousin Wilbur was normal
too.









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                     Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:38:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 15:01:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction


 >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:30:56 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 06:09:16 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:14:15 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Correction
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Dear list,

 >>>The e-mail address for "National Geographic" provided in the
 >>>last post was in error.  The correct address is:

 >>>ngsforum@nationalgeographic.com

 >>I think this list has been more than tolerant of your minority
 >>viewpoints in the Cydonia matter.

 >>My (personal) view is that Cydonia is an assortment of natural
 >>features, so we can agree to disagree.

 >>There must come a point, however, where any one-man campaign to
 >>bring this all up again becomes distasteful.

 ><snip>

 >Hi Larry,

 >I'm sure glad someone said something on this subject because for
 >the past few day's I've done nothing but bite my tongue.

 >Of course it is a pile of rocks, I think I'm quite safe in
 >assuming most people think along these lines, here's an idea...
 >how about we just move on, huh?

 >Talking of silly subjects I see the Pelicans have raised their
 >feathered heads again.

 >Is this all ufology boils down to? Raking over the old coals, a
 >previous belief turns out to be wrong but these type of people
 >just won't let it, go will they?

 >All the best,

 >Dave

Dear Dave:

Thank you for calling in. I have also been biting my tongue,
trying to be charitable when charity has lost its cause.

I am sick to death of the garbage which inevitably infests any
study as unproven as UFOs.

On three separate lists, I read all about Cydonia (again), the
Pleades (as if that were needed for the ETH)  and I simply
forget what else... a victim of Irish and/or Oregon beers,
whichever are darker and more forgiving.

I get up in the morning,  afternoon actually,  and the same
mindless pap assaults my neurons.

I am no knee-jerk skeptic, and have 15 hard years work to prove
it. On the contrary, I demand some hard clues (evidence being
unavailable due to El Nino and other difficulties) before I will
swallow any more fairy tales.

It is not my job to prove they Mohammed did not move the
mountain. It is up to Mohammed to prove that he did. Allah
permitting of course.

That said, I will now pray to all Holy that my spell checker
still works, and that I am not out of Irish beer.

Very best wishes

- Larry Hatch


= = = = = = = = =








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                 Re: Sightings Report OZ FILE Posted 1/15/00

From: Jan M. Pheneger <ufoohio@wcoil.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 12:11:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:49:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Sightings Report OZ FILE  Posted 1/15/00


 >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:54:31 +1100
 >From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
 >Subject: Sighting Report OZ File 00469 10.01.2000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Ohio Sightings.....

In regards to Sighting Report OZ file, the witnesses seem to
have reported lights similar to those reported around the world.
I have been fortunate enough to Photograph these lights,
similar, if not exactly the same as the witnesses have reported
in this posting 1/15/00 in seeing these lights. Mind you, I am
not an experienced photographer, however I have used this same
Camera at many Country Music Concerts, and nothing shows up out
of the normal.

However, photographing these lights, upon development of the
film, what one visibly see's with the human eye, is not what the
camera sees per se.

In general, upon development, the negatives depicts a trail of
lines of differentiating spectrums zig-zagging, interlouping,
abuting, of great speeds. Possible radiation trails(?)

To the human eye, these lights appear often slow moving, often
pulsating, pinkish/red to a orangish ball of light. It has been
seen as a pulsating white light, and turn to a red pin drop
sitting stationary, then move and pulsate, suddenly streaking
across the sky at great speed.

Several witnesses to these sightings have been present, along
with County Sheriffs. I am fortunate to know a Sheriff Pilot,
who also teaches Criminal Photography at a Local University. The
pictures/negatives have been analysed by him, as well as a
Professor of Astronomy Ohio State University, Kodak of New York,
and 30 year Photo Editor of the Associated Press, and several
well know Ufologist/Specialist.

No one to date can explain what the camera negative depicts.
I do know that a camera, cannot do Algebra.

One picture of particular interest shows a "structured object",
as the trails can be measured to exact equations.  Also of
importance is the fact that some of the white spectrum trails
seen, go into  a "invisible category" of color, I have been
told,  which may explain that while photographing the light,
technically to me, as the witnesses present, the light just
"blinked" out of "human sight."

To those interested in "catching" this last statement I just
made, the picture of particular interest is the picture showing
various spectra of color, including white, which can be
measured in a algebraic manner showing a structured object, that
"became invisible" to the human eye.

Technically so... Hence: The Camera "saw more" as two more
pictures were snapped "after" the light had "blinked" out of our
sight. Which may unnerve some, but technically tells me that
although the human eye was not seeing it upon it's blinking out,
that the object _was_ still there, it just couldn't be seen by the
human eyes that witnessed it. Suggesting a "Cloaking"(?)

F-8 and shutter speed was set at 250.  Minolta Camera was used
to photograph these lights.

I am very hesitant to show what I have as far as these pictures
to many. Inspired to write/publish a book by them, I will use
them in a chapter of my book.

Please visit my web site:

http://www.ufoohio.com

As a personal statement by me, as the author, to this book,  I
have but one statement to make. If the pictures were to ever be
considered anything more than what they depict..... why would I
use them to incriminate the sale of my book when published, if
the pictures _can_ be explained?  My Concept for the book can be
published even without these pictures being used, should I
decide not to disclose them, for reasons personal to me.

Jan M. Pheneger

Author: 'Ohio & Other UFO Stories - Fact or Fallacy'









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:55:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:03:59 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:15:14 +0000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

 >>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:48:32 +1100
 >>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Well hold on a second, what do you mean this isn't the place to
 >go into lengthy discussions concerning the Pleiades? What is
 >this list all about? Have you seen how long some threads have
 >been going on here? With the greatest respect to you Bill, but
 >you came out with a rather big statement on the Pleiades as far
 >as I am concerned, which was and again I repeat: >>too young to
 >support anything like life yet.


Hi Roy


You're right this is the place to discuss topical issues
regarding ufology.


To my knowledge no scientist has been able to offer evidence
that life exists within the Pleiadies, so if you feel Bill has
made a 'rather big statement' perhaps you would care to offer
proof, if not evidence as to why you believe him to be wrong?
After all, this is the place to discuss both sides of ufology.


Tony








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   Jan > Jan 16

                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:12:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:38:50 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

 >>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:55:35 -0500
 >>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hi Roy

 >>You're right this is the place to discuss topical issues
 >>regarding ufology.

 >>Tony


Hi Tony & All,


What I was getting at was the fact if people who have had some
kind of contact with ETs, either by Remote Viewing states( you
know seeing on board the craft and talking to the Aliens) or
other means who have had a message given to them concerning the
Pleiades, then how do we sort this message out in to a rational
perspective?


BTW Bill & I have spoken off-list and we have sorted out our
difference of opinion.

(Looking forward to that beer Bill!)


A few questions for discussion:


Tony do you think that Earth has ever been in Contact with ET,
by anyone at all - ever?

*Have you personally seen enough evidence to say Yes or No*


If we are to discuss this matter, then can I ask you what is
your view on ufology today?
*Are we now heading in the right direction*


What do you think is being reported by the public?
*What percentage of sightings would suggest a real Phenomena to
you*


Do you think there are a lot of over excited people reporting
UFOs?
*Have you come across such types in your daily group running*


Do you think it possible of life existing elsewhere in the
Universe?
*Has this Life reached this Planet*


If I am right you are/were involved with CSETI  & Project FT (
Flying Triangle), by being in these groups would that mean you
believe in the existence of ET?
*Having read & seen the huge amount of DATA of such groups*


Would being in these groups given you enough case evidence of
something unusual flying in our skies?
*If so from what you have seen over the years what is your well
seen opinion on UFOs*


How much evidence do you think the UFO community needs before we
can say we are not alone?
*Has your group come across such needed evidence for a
revelation of ET*


Should we believe stories of Abductions & Contacts, or look at
those who report these as mixed up?

*Not discounting the TLF amongst others, where do we stand on
present day reports of such events*


Do you think that Black Projects are responsible for the weird craft
seen in and around the skies?
*Not withstanding the huge Black Project Budgets, is testing taking
place around the World in public view*


What is your opinion on sky watching, do you think it is a worthwhile
method for contacting ET?
*Has sky watching in your opinion ever brought good results for ET
contact*


Do you think it is time that ufology cleaned up it's act and got on with
the real job of finding real answers?
*Would Government & Media Take ufology Seriously if we did*


Do you think there are a lot of time wasters out there who get to
emotional about ET?
*Emotive Terms Etc...Aliens,Grays,Spacecraft,Hybrids,*


What would your suggetsion be to rid UFOlogy of such types?
*A cohesive network strategy as compiled by studies into the UFO
phenomena by various groups*



Roy..









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                    New Zealand Sightings 12-99 to 10-00

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 14:08:54 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:46:51 -0500
Subject: New Zealand Sightings 12-99 to 10-00



The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia

http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw


New Zealand Sightings

Thank you Murray MUFON & Richard TUFOIG for these reports


 From Murray Bott (MUFON)

MUFON NZ,
PO Box 27117,
Mt Roskill,
Auckland, NZ


 From the Times News.of 26th Dec 1999:

The Northern Communications Centre of Police received the
following reports.


26.12.99  Raglan, North Island 2118hrs

A green flare was seen in the direction of Raglan, Auckland on
the West coast.  The flame died before it hit the sea. MUFON NZ


26.12.99  Raglan, North Island 2125hrs

A red flare alerted the Raglan Sea Rescue which searched the
area but failed to find anything.
MUFON NZ


26.12.99  Port Waikato, North Island 2129hrs

Report of  a low green flare in the North West from Port
Waikato, the next harbour North of Raglan. Situated  in a
similar area to previous sighting, possibly further North.
MUFON NZ


26.12.99  Warkworth, North Island 2136hrs

Warkworth (N of Auckland) resident reported multi-coloured
lights in the sky heading in the direction of Pakiri Beach. Lost
sight behind Dome Range.
MUFON NZ


26.12.99  Army Bay, North Island 2200hrs

Army Bay reports of orange, sparkling coloured flares on the
North side of the Whangaparoa Peninsular.  The flare reported to
have ascended into the sky before it came down.
MUFON NZ


26.12.99  Tinopai, North Island 2336hrs

Tinopai (Northland) resident reported "Huge Lights" over the
hills due North. The lights were reported to have moved 400
metres in two seconds. Two more strange lights were reported
"going straight up and down in the sky"   Looking across the
Kaipara Harbour, the lights were reported to be "dancing about
in the sky".
MUFON NZ



 From Tauranga UFO Investigation Group (TUFOIG)
44 Townhead Crescent, Tauranga NZ


10.01.2000  Tauranga (Welcome Bay), North Island  2200hrs Mrs J.
of Welcome Bay, Tauranga, reported that on 10th Jan. 2000 she
went outside at 10.00PM to look at the clear sky. Just after she
had gone outside she was aware of a fluorescent Green light that
was travelling from the East (her right) and moved to a space
fairly nearly in front of her when it stopped. It was high up.
The Green object was bigger than the stars which she beheld. The
total time was approximately 1/2 hour  As it was a clear calm
night she was sure there was no noise. After spending that1/2
hour outside the lady went indoors and did not see it again.
TUFOIG



Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
       1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>






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                     Radio Controlled Balloons at 24km/h

From: Tony Robb <Praufo@aol.com >
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 04:15:00 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:52:05 -0500
Subject: Radio Controlled Balloons at 24km/h


Oz & ASIA DATA RESEARCH
Phenomena Research Australia

EBK, Researchers,

Apologies to EBR Researchers, if this data has been 'posted' in
the past? And to some, it may be a "slow news day" item or just
"kids stuff", I concur! But, just in case you missed this page
read on, the rest can scroll back ;-(.

In PRA's last file copy of of 'Private Pilot', Dec 1999, flight
magazine, I again noticed the 'DraganFly Innovations Inc'
balloon advertisement, and decided to take a look at their Web
Page. Most would remember first seeing this product when it
appeared in 'Popular Mechanics', Nov 1998, issue and in the last
14 months it has featured in just about every major magazine,
even featuring on CNN and NBC.

When I first read about this product, like most, it looked like
"toys for the kids" (except for the very large price tag), but
todays "DrafanFly" balloon products are rather sophisticated and
surprisingly controllable & adaptable:

* Radio Controlled.
* Size of 2 metres (6 foot) saucer.
* Are very agile.
* CCD Cameras fitted.
* Lights fitted.
* And can reach speeds of up to 24 km/h (15 mph).

Now, that's a problem! Especially the speed and the radio
control aspect.

With this in mind, and without trying to generate more
inconvenience for us all, why not take a look at these devices
on the following Web Pages, it will surprise you and may add to
your research. The Web pages have some attention-grabbing
pictures and articles that can be sourced for any future
research or measurements.

The Video section is a requirement. To look at the video you
will need Quick Time.

HOME PAGE:
http://www.rctoys.com/products.html
NEWS PAGE:
http://www.rctoys.com/news.html
VIDEO PAGE:
http://www.rctoys.com/videos.html


Regards,

Tony Robb

PRA Research Group Co-ordinator
DISCLAMER: Not an agent for this product!

Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE









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   Jan > Jan 16

              Tonight - Jan Aldrich on 'Strange Days... Indeed'

From: EBK
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:04:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:04:12 -0500
Subject: Tonight - Jan Aldrich on 'Strange Days... Indeed'


Tonight on 'Strange Days... Indeed'

   ----------------
  /// Jan Aldrich
-----------------

Our guest tonight was first with us back in January of last year
and again in August last. We learned much history from him
during his last visit. He's the Co-Ordinator for Project 1947,
the Project's e-mail list - Project 1947 and is a well-respected
researcher among his peers.

PROJECT 1947 is an attempt to enhance the future of UFO research
by establishing a solid collection of official UFO documents,
newspaper articles and personal accounts from the beginning of
the modern UFO era. Its primary focus is on the 1947 wave, also
looks forward as far as 1965 and back to 1900 for certain
selected significant topics in UFO research. The 1900-1946
period is being examined for UFO-like reports.

The first volume of material collected by PROJECT 1947 has been
published by the UFO Research Coalition as PROJECT 1947: A
Preliminary Report. An extensive collection of 1947 UFO reports
and newspaper accounts from the U.S.A. is supplemented by a
compilation of significant sightings from other countries,
including Sweden and Scandinavia, Finland, France and Australia.

Tonight, we'll discuss the UFO History Workshops, Project Sign,
Patrick Huyghe's article on Klass' Klaims regarding the recently
released NSA documents and other things that have attracted
Jan's attention


Visit the Project 1947 Website at:

http://www.project1947.com/


Join Jan, co-host Jonn Kares and I, along with callers, this
evening at 9:00pm Eastern, as we discuss these Strange Days...
Indeed on:

CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts

6070khz Shortwave

and the Eureka Digital Broadcast System in Toronto.

You can also listen via Media Player at:

www.cfrb.com/

You'll need to access the site using Internet Explorer since
Media Player seems to choke using any version of Netscape -
thanks Mr. Bill!


To call the program dial:

On-Air     416-872-1010
            1-800-561-CFRB
            *TALK [local mobiles]


Errol Bruce-Knapp









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   Jan > Jan 16

                             UFO Net Site Moved

From: Anthony Chippendale <anthonyc@ufon.org>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:59:06 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 13:30:28 -0500
Subject: UFO Net Site Moved



Hello Everyone,

Would everyone please note that my web site (UFO Net) has now
moved and can be found at:

http://ufon.org/ufonet/

Anthony Chippendale.

************************************

This email has been sent by Anthony
Chippendale, UFO Net Manager
Visit:
http://ufon.org/ufonet/
http://www.ufon.org









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   Jan > Jan 16

               CPR-Canada News: 'Wireless Flash News' & Radio

From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:59:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 15:47:37 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News: 'Wireless Flash News' & Radio


CPR-CANADA NEWS
The E-News Service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada


http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada


January 16, 2000


CPR-Canada News: Wireless Flash News Report; Upcoming Radio
Interviews

_____________________________




MEDIA


Wireless Flash News Report On 1999 Canadian Crop Circles


http://www.flashnews.com


January 12, 2000


Crop Circle Sightings Up In Canada, Down In U.S.


VANCOUVER, B.C. (Wireless Flash) - It looks like Canada and
England got the cream of the crop circles last year. According
to Vancouver-based crop circle researcher Paul Anderson, there
was a 50 percent increase in crop circle sightings in England in
1999 and a 33 percent increase in Canada. Meanwhile, the United
States had only 12 crop circles, down from 15 in 1998. Israel,
which had never had a crop circle before 1997, had three
sightings in 1999. Anderson says it's normal for crop circle
sightings to fluctuate around the world and he hopes further
research will uncover the reason.


CONTACT: Paul Anderson, ***; Vancouver, B.C.; (604) 731-8522;
Access Canadian crop circle report at:

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada


(Note: Wireless Flash is an internet news service distributed
daily to over 800 media outlets worldwide. Figures mentioned for
England, the United States and Israel were given as
approximations only, with about three or four known reports
total for Israel since 1997 - PA)



MEDIA


Upcoming Radio Interviews - January 18, 2000


Interviews with CPR-Canada director Paul Anderson on the 1999
Canadian crop circles.


CHQR 77 AM News Talk Radio (Calgary, Alberta)
http://www.qr77.com
'The Morning Show'
Tuesday, January 18, 2000
Taped the previous Monday morning, to be broadcast at some point during
'The Morning Show' program on Tuesday morning, 5:30 - 8:00 am MT.


CJAD 800 AM News Talk Radio (Montreal, Quebec)
http://www.cjad.com
'Holder Overnight'
Tuesday, January 18, 2000
Live, 12:30 am ET


_____________________________



CPR-Canada News is the electronic news service of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon
Research International), providing periodic updates with the
latest news and reports, as well as information on CPR-Canada -
related news and events. CPR-Canada News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by CPR-Canada, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to:


psa@direct.ca


For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:


CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International


Main Office


Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4  Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada


REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522


_____________________________



� Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 2000











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   Jan > Jan 16

                      [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 20000116

From: Bufo Calvin <bufocalvin@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:07:55 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:01:56 -0500
Subject: [bwwma] BWW Media Alert 20000116



From: Bufo Calvin <bufocalvin@yahoo.com>

Bufo's WEIRD WORLD P O Box 5231, Walnut Creek, CA 94596
Internet: BufoCalvin@aol.com
Website: http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin
Bufo's WEIRD NEWS LINKS
Link to Amazon.com

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED (permission is granted to reproduce or
redistribute this edition of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD provided that
attribution is made to http://members.aol.com/bufocalvin. It is
good etiquette to check with strangers before you e-mail them
something. If you forward this, please make sure it is clear
that you are forwarding it).

January 16, 2000

This seems to be coming a bit later recently, partially due to
working on writing the book. If anyone wants to be included,
please let me know. You may see the following announcement
about:

OPPORTUNITY FOR INCLUSION IN A BOOK

Gini Graham Scott (author of more than thirty books) and Bufo
Calvin (of Bufo's WEIRD WORLD, best known for the
widely-reproduced weekly Bufo's WEIRD WORLD Media Alert) are
writing a book for Paragon House featuring people who have been
involved with UFOs and UFO study. The book will primarily
consist of interviews with individuals about their experiences,
opinions and beliefs regarding UFOs. If you would like to be
involved, either by being interviewed (interviews may be
conducted via phone, in-person, or e-mail), or by having your
organization, annual event, or other resource listed, please
contact us at UFOBook@aol.com. All opinions are welcome. We are
currently working on an abduction chapter, but will cover a
variety of areas within the next few months.

As usual, let me know what you think at BufoCalvin@aol.com.

On to the listings: Times are generally Pacific.

LIVE EVENTS

When: Sunday, January 16, 7:00 PM
Where: 2018 Allston Way, Berkeley, California
Who: Ralph Steiner (KPFA reporter known for UFO coverage) and Val Jon Farris
How much: $10 advance, $12 door
Contact information: 510-644-1600 or 925-945-5500


RADIO

Eddie Middleton's very popular show in the South, Nightsearch,
has a website at http://www.nightsearch.net/. Streaming audio is
now available. Sundays from 3:00 to 5:00 PM (Pacific). The
call-in line is 901-365-1430.

Sunday, January 16, 3:00 PM, Edd Edwards, also known as Shoo,
will attempt telekinesis through the radio.

Ken Dashow, THE EDGE OF REALITY, Sundays at 9:00 PM, Fridays at
5:00 PM. Dashow is known for his sarcastic wit.
http://www.talkamerica.com/dashow.html and
http://www.dashow.com/edge.html. There is some dispute on these
times. A correspondent tells me (thanks! If you'd like to be
acknowledged on the list, let me know) that it runs from 5:00 PM
to 8:00 PM (Pacific...that's how times are generally listed
here), with a repeat from 8:00 PM to 11:00 PM on Saturdays.

Mike Jarmus, REALITY AND BEYOND, 7:00 PM Sundays,
http://spectrum.orn.com/omega.ram. Streaming audio available

Art Bell - DREAMLAND
Currently, the most popular talk show on this area. http://www.artbell.com/. Liv
e streaming audio (and video) available.

The Laura Lee Show sometimes covers appropriate topics: http://www.lauralee.com

Billy Dee and BEYOND THE UNEXPLAINED
Streaming audio available. This does have something to do with
cable show listed below.
http://members.xoom.com/BillyDee1/ufoshow/theufoshow.html

Jeff Rense - SIGHTINGS
Jeff is well-versed on the topics, but likes to let the guests speak, resulting
in one of the best radio shows on these topics. You can hear Real Audio of the s
how, and there are archives as well. Go to http://www.sightings.com/ for more in
formation. The show is on at 7:00 PM Pacific Monday through Friday, and 8:00 PM
Pacific on Sunday. You can hear it anywhere through your computer. Please note t
hat Jeff also often covers topics which I do not consider relevant to this list.
 To subscribe to the Jeff Rense Weekly E-news (which includes articles and a com
plete guest listing), e-mail (subject: Subscribe) mailto:jocelyn@dewittec.net.

Sunday, January 16, 8:00 PM, Diane Harrison with an Australian UFO report: Georg
e Riddle on contactee George Van Tassel
Monday, January 17, 7:00 PM, Kenn Thomas, on the Maury Island UFO case
Wednesday, January 19, 7:00 PM, Linda Moulton Howe
Thursday, January 20, 7:00 PM, Dr. Louis Turi, divine astrology
Friday, January 21, 7:00 PM, David Oester and Sharon Gill on spirit photography

Paul Williams and Scott Carr: UFO DESK
This New York show has been around for years, but is now
available on streaming audio. The website is
http://www.escape.com/~paulw/ufodesk.html. It runs at 8:00 PM
(Pacific) on Sundays.

Jeff Mishlove AND THE VIRTUAL UNIVERSITY
Webcast every weekday at 8:00 PM for two hours, with a repeat at
10:00 PM. Webcast at http://www.wisdomradio.com/.

ERSKINE OVERNIGHT
Webcast 9:00 PM to Midnight with an immediate repeat at Talkamerica.com.

OUT OF THIS WORLD RADIO, THE DIMENSION Hosted by Patte Purcell
on Saturdays from 11:00 PM to 2:00 AM, this show is webcast as
well. Call in number is 1-888-822-TALK. The website is
http://www.outofthisworldradio.com/. Hmm�the dates are for
Sundays, but the home page says Saturdays. Hard to say for sure.

Errol Bruce-Knapp and co-host Jonn Kares have 'STRANGE DAYS...
INDEED' at 6:00 PM Sunday at http://www.cfrb.com/, streaming
audio available. Call-in line is at 1-800-561-CFRB.

Sunday, January 16, Jan Aldrich, of Project 1947, a UFO research organization.


LOCAL RADIO

KPFA, 94.1 Berkeley, California
Friday, January 21, 4:00 PM, ALIENS-FACT OR FICTION (guest Matt
Debow, host Anita Johnson)�http://www.kpfa.org/, streaming audio
available.

TELEVISION

A&E (USA)

Sunday, January 16, 10:00 AM, THE UNEXPLAINED: STRANGE LINES IN THE SAND (Nazca?
)
Sunday, January 23, 10:00 AM, THE UNEXPLAINED: THE TWIN CONNECTION

ANIMAL PLANET (USA)

Monday, January 17, 6:00 PM, ANIMAL LEGENDS (includes Champ, the lake monster)
Monday, January 17, 9:00 PM, ANIMAL LEGENDS (includes Champ, the lake monster)
Friday, January 21, 3:30 PM, PET PROJECT (includes pet psychic)
Friday, January 21, 6:00 PM, ANIMAL X (includes the black cat of Killakee, Irela
nd; Turkey�s Lake Van monster)
Friday, January 21, 9:00 PM, ANIMAL X (includes the black cat of Killakee, Irela
nd; Turkey�s Lake Van monster)
Saturday, January 22, 4:00 PM, ANIMAL X (includes the black cat of Killakee, Ire
land; Turkey�s Lake Van monster)
Saturday, January 22, 4:30 PM, ANIMAL LEGENDS (includes Champ, the lake monster)
Saturday, January 22, 7:30 PM, AMAZING TAILS (includes pet psychic)
Saturday, January 22, 11:00 PM, ANIMAL X (includes the black cat of Killakee, Ir
eland; Turkey�s Lake Van monster)
Saturday, January 22, 11:30 PM, ANIMAL LEGENDS (includes Champ, the lake monster
)
Monday, January 24, 7:00 AM, PET PROJECT (includes pet psychic)
Tuesday, January 25, 6:30 AM, AMAZING TAILS (includes pet psychic)
Tuesday, January 25, 3:00 PM, AMAZING TAILS (includes pet psychic)
Friday, January 28, 6:00 PM, ANIMAL X (includes Canadian lake monsters)

ANIMAUX (Europe) (GMT+1)

Sunday, January 16, 1:40 PM, ANIMAL X (French) (includes Australian hairy biped
the Yowie)
Sunday, January 16, 7:40 PM, ANIMAL X (French) (includes Australian hairy biped
the Yowie)
Monday, January 17, 12:40 AM, ANIMAL X (French) (includes Australian hairy biped
 the Yowie)
Monday, January 17, 11:30 AM, ANIMAL X (French) (includes Australian hairy biped
 the Yowie)
Wednesday, January 19, 3:15 PM, ANIMAL X (French) (includes Australian hairy bip
ed the Yowie)

DISCOVERY CHANNEL (Australia) (time zone unknown)

Monday, January 17, 3:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: THE PUZZLE
OF THE PYRAMIDS
Tuesday, January 18, 3:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIOUS
 INDIA
Tuesday, January 18, 5:30 AM, ULTRASCIENCE: THE GHOSTHUNTERS
Wednesday, January 19, 3:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PSYCHIC
DETECTIVES
Thursday, January 20, 3:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIES
 OF THE MAYA
Friday, January 21, 3:00 PM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: SQUARING TH
E BERMUDA TRIANGLE
Friday, January 21, 5:00 PM, DISCOVER MAGAZINE A SKEPTIC�S GUIDE
Saturday, January 15, 6:00 AM, EQUINOX: SECRETS OF SUPER PSYCHICS
Monday, January 17, 4:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: GIANTS OF E
ASTER ISLAND

DISCOVERY CHANNEL (Europe) (GMT+1)

Sunday, January 16, 12:00 PM, GHOSTHUNTERS: THE MEN WHO TALK TO GHOSTS
Sunday, January 16, 12:30 PM, GHOSTHUNTERS: THE HAUNTINGS OF CASTLE LESLIE
Sunday, January 16, 1:30 PM, GHOSTHUNTERS: HOLY GHOST BUSTERS
Monday, January 17, 9:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: THE EVIL EY
E
Monday, January 17, 10:00 PM, MYSTERIES OF THE UNEXPLAINED: POWERS OF THE PARANO
RMAL
Tuesday, January 18, 9:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: PSYCHIC DE
TECTIVES
Wednesday, January 19, 9:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS WORLD: BAFFLING BO
MBARDMENTS
Thursday, January 20, 9:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: MYSTERIES
 OF THE MAYA
Thursday, January 20, 1:35 PM, ANIMAL X (Dutch) (includes South Africa�s Howick
Falls monster)
Thursday, January 20, 2:00 PM, ANIMAL X (includes South Africa�s Howick Falls mo
nster)
Friday, January 21, 9:00 AM, ARTHUR C. CLARKE�S MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE: SQUARING TH
E BERMUDA TRIANGLE

HGTV (USA)

Friday, January 28, 1:30 PM, KITCHEN DESIGN (includes haunted kitchen)

THE HISTORY CHANNEL (USA)

Wednesday, January 19, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF�MAYAN MYSTERIES
Wednesday, January 19, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF�AZTEC CONQUEST
Wednesday, January 19, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF�MAYAN MYSTERIES
Wednesday, January 19, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF�AZTEC CONQUEST
Thursday, January 20, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF�REINCARNATION
Thursday, January 20, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF�LIFE AFTER LIFE
Thursday, January 20, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF�REINCARNATION
Thursday, January 20, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF�LIFE AFTER LIFE
Friday, January 21, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF�ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN
Friday, January 21, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF�SWAMP MONSTER
Friday, January 21, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF�ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN
Friday, January 21, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF�SWAMP MONSTER
Tuesday, January 25, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF�KILLER BEES
Tuesday, January 25, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF�DEADLY ANTS
Tuesday, January 25, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF�KILLER BEES
Tuesday, January 25, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF�DEADLY ANTS
Wednesday, January 26, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF�THE MAN WHO WOULD NOT DIE (ST. GERM
AIN)
Wednesday, January 26, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF�IMMORTALITY
Wednesday, January 26, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF�THE MAN WHO WOULD NOT DIE (ST. GER
MAIN)
Wednesday, January 26, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF�IMMORTALITY
Thursday, January 27, 7:00 AM, IN SEARCH OF�UFO CAPTIVES
Thursday, January 27, 7:30 AM, IN SEARCH OF�TIME AND SPACE TRAVEL
Thursday, January 27, 12:00 PM, IN SEARCH OF�UFO CAPTIVES
Thursday, January 27, 12:30 PM, IN SEARCH OF�TIME AND SPACE TRAVEL

LOCAL TELEVISION (USA)

BEYOND THE UNEXPLAINED WITH JANET RUSSELL
Janet does get major guests on her show. Check with your local
cable company to see if it is cablecasting the show. Specific
guest information not currently available.
MANHATTAN NEIGHBORHOOD CABLE
SUNDAY CH 56 1:30 AM

CABLEVISION OF WOODBURY NY
SUNDAY CH25/CH80/CH96 9:30 PM

CABLEVISION OF RIVERHEAD NY
MONDAY CH 27 10 AM

TRAC 12 OF MINNESOTA
TUESDAY CH 12 1 PM & 9 PM

CABLEVISION OF YORKTOWN HEIGHTS NY
TUESDAY CH 34 8:30 PM

COMMUNITY TV OF SANTE FE N.M.
TUESDAY CH 6 8:30 PM

LTV OF EASTHAMPTON NY
TURESDAY CH 27 2:30 PM

GATEWAY ACCESS "12" OF SPRING CREEK NY
WEDNESDAY CH 12 8:30 PM

PAC 8 LOS ALAMOS N.M.
WEDNESDAY CH 8 4:00 PM

CABLEVISION OF HAUPPAGUE NY
THURSDAY CH 25 5:00 PM

CABLEVISION OF BROOKHAVEN NY
FRIDAY CH 99 9:30 PM

PAC 8 OF LOS ALAMOS N.M.
FRIDAY CH 8 9:00 pm

CABLEVISION OF YONKERS NY
SATURDAY CH58/ CH37 2:00PM

B-CAT OF BROOKLYN NY
SATURDAY CH34/CH67 4:00 PM

QPTV QUEENS NY
CH35/CH58/CH37
CHECK SCHEDULE FOR DAYS AND TIMES

MYSTERIES FROM BEYOND THE OTHER DOMINION

This is hosted by Dr. Franklin Ruehl, Ph.D. This was one of the
original shows on THE SCI-FI CHANNEL, and reportedly continues
to be seen in the Los Angeles area. I�m still confirming, but
the times and channels I have are below.

TCI: Friday-10:30 PM
TIME-WARNER: Mon.-10 PM
MEDIA ONE: THUR-9:30 PM
CENTURY CABLE: FRIDAY-11 PM

MTV (USA)

Monday, January 17, 8:00 AM, ROAD RULES: AUSTRALIA (includes UFO story?)

NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC (Australia) (Time Zone unknown)

Saturday, January 22, 8:30 PM, MYSTERIES & SECRETS: MYSTERY OF THE CROP CIRCLES
Sunday, January 23, 4:30 AM, MYSTERIES & SECRETS: MYSTERY OF THE CROP CIRCLES
Sunday, January 23, 2:30 PM, MYSTERIES & SECRETS: MYSTERY OF THE CROP CIRCLES

PBS (USA) (times and content vary by station)

Sunday, January 23, 10:30 AM, PETS: PART OF THE FAMILY (includes psychic)

RTL (Europe) (GMT+1)

Thursday, January 20, 11:15 PM, UFOS 2000

RTL 5 (Europe) (GMT+1)

Sunday, January 16, 1:30 PM, SIGHTINGS

SBS6 (Europe) (GMT+1)

Monday, January 17, 1:35 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch)
Tuesday, January 18, 1:30 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch)
Wednesday, January 19, 1:10 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch)
Thursday, January 20, 1:25 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch)
Friday, January 21, 1:30 PM, MYSTERIES, MAGIC & MIRACLES (Dutch)

THE SCI-FI CHANNEL (USA)

Tuesday, January 18, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Wednesday, January 19, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Thursday, January 20, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Friday, January 21, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Monday, January 24, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Tuesday, January 25, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Wednesday, January 26, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Thursday, January 27, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS
Friday, January 28, 7:00 AM, SIGHTINGS


SYNDICATED (USA)

Friday, January 21, MAURY: Dorothy Allison, psychic detective

THE TRAVEL CHANNEL (USA)

Saturday, January 22, 6:00 PM, HOLLYWOOD HAUNTS
Saturday, January 22, 9:00 PM, HOLLYWOOD HAUNTS



__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com


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------------------------------------------------------------------------


___________________________


This is Bufo saying, "If =everything= seemed normal, that =would= be weird!"
____________________________


Please let me know if there is something in the media you think
I should cover. Deadline is Tuesday, the week before.

---

You can subscribe to this list by sending an e-mail to
bwwma-subscribe@onelist.com.  You can unsubscribe by sending an
e-mail to bwwma-unsubscribe@onelist.com.

---

You may also be interested in Bufo's WEIRD NEWS LINKS (links to
weird stories in non-paranormal-dedicated media) by sending an
e-mail to bwnl-subscribe@onelist.com.

---

You may also wish to subscribe to Bufo's ANOMALIT Review (a monthly review and l
istings of new books and other items on these topics) by sending an e-mail to an
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 16

               TMP News: Chemtrails - TMP Magazine Article and

From: Paul Anderson - TMP / CPR-Canada <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 12:16:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:04:04 -0500
Subject: TMP News: Chemtrails - TMP Magazine Article and



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project


http://persweb.direct.ca/psa


January 16, 2000

_____________________________


MEDIA


TMP Chemtrail Article In Alive Magazine


There is an article on the "mystery contrails/chemtrails" by TMP
director Paul Anderson in the February 2000 issue of Alive
magazine (the Canadian Journal of Health and Medicine, available
in health food outlets across Canada). It is essentially a
reprint of the earlier version (a copy of which can be read at:
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/contrails.html).



THE MILLENNIUM FORUM


The Millennium Forum Lecture Series: Chemtrails In Our Skies?
January 21, 2000


New West AM Group
New Westminster, BC


Paul Anderson
Founder and Director of The Millennium Project


7:30 - 9:00 AM
(breakfast meeting)


The Boathouse Restaurant
(near the New Westminster Quay Public Market)
900 Quayside, New Westminster, BC


Admission: $10.00


For Further Information


Len Stone
NWAM
604.294.1195


TMP
604.731.8522
psa@direct.ca


_____________________________



TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium Project,
providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of the latest relevant
news stories and reports, as well as periodic information and updates
on major breaking news stories and TMP-related news and events. TMP
News is edited by Paul Anderson and published by TMP, and is available
free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send
your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP
News" and e-mail address to:


psa@direct.ca


For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:


THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT


Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa


_____________________________



� The Millennium Project, 2000









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 16

                      Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:54:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:29:02 -0500
Subject: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?


Hiya all

With all that has been going on and talked about regarding the
face on Mars, I thought I'd interject a few scandalous thoughts
of my own. Now before I do, none of my thought are aimed at
anyone, unless I specifically mention a persons name.


Wit to wisdom, or hype to death?


When the Viking probe took a picture of an anomaly on Mars,
history was made. People suggested all manner of things from
"proof of life else where" to "shadows creating things that aint
there". Now I don't know about you but the following furor was a
sight to behold.


Now on one hand we have Richard Hoagland and pals. Not content
with arguing semantics about the face, he conjures up
mathematical bits and pieces to further confirm that it must be
a _made_ product (nearly put alien made as oppose to man made
there but caught myself in time). Whether this is true or not,
(the math stuff) it is I believe, still open to question, or is
that belief? But, and its a big but, does it _prove_ anything?
I.E. we have the octagonal stones/rocks of the "Giants causeway"
do we not, and that aint artificial.

And on the other hand we have/had the skeptics who could only
say things like trick of light, natural anomaly or some such. I
don't know about you but I think Richard had the most colourful
arguments.


Now when NASA deemed it worthy they mentioned another probe was
going to Mars and that they would take another few pics of a
certain little controversial object/anomaly that was causing
much debate here on this little mudball we call earth.


So we then have some more pics. The raw data does indeed make it
look like the face was a lighting anomaly, not an artificial
object D'art. Personally I think Mars erosive abilities have a
lot to answer for cos I didn't think it was the same place, but
then I am no expert on this subject, nor am I a photographic
expert, so to me this was no conclusion. Now if the pics NASA
provided us are the genuine article, then what can we deduce?
Hmm.


We have two main options, The Face is nothing other than trick
of lighting, or, NASA has lied and the new pics are "altered".
Being that I am not a conspiracy buff, nor do I subscribe to
many alt.nasa news groups, I am left with the only option of
working out my own opinion for myself.


Since certain people are absolutely certain that NASA would not
tell the truth even if it was describing the colour of the sky,
and so far its only NASA that have taken pics of the face on
Mars so we are in a dilemma are we not? Unless the pro face on
Mars people can raise the cash for their own probe to go to
Mars, we have no choice but to use NASA's pics and hope that
they are not altered. Hmm I wonder if all the people who thought
the face on Mars was genuine got together and donated cash do
you think that they could raise half the cash? I'm sure if they
raised half the cash for another probe, then some members of the
general public seeing how serious these people where they might
help out with the other half?? Just a thought.


We can't dismiss Richard Hoagland that easily either, because he
told us about the potential for life on Europa, so he must be
one smart cookie. Trouble is does being smart mean you are
always right? Not if my math teacher was anything to go by!
Neither can we say NASA have told us the truth all the time
either. So on one hand you have a bunch of fringe lunatics and
on the other a bunch of liars. (Using the opposing sides
descriptions of the other side here <g>)


For the person straddling the fence there is a choice of two
devils, and is there an answer for Occams razor to decide? Strip
away all the words and look at the cold hard facts and what are
we left with? I'm not sure that I know.


Is there a straight answer to the face on Mars? Not unless I go
there and walk that hill there wont be for me.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 16

                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:45:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:34:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:12:48 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:55:35 -0500
 >>From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >What I was getting at was the fact if people who have had some
 >kind of contact with ETs, either by Remote Viewing states( you
 >know seeing on board the craft and talking to the Aliens) or
 >other means who have had a message given to them concerning the
 >Pleiades, then how do we sort this message out in to a rational
 >perspective?

Firstly you must understand that the dream state and similar
states during alleged OOBE's and remote viewing are subjective.

 >Tony do you think that Earth has ever been in Contact with ET,
 >by anyone at all - ever?

I haven't seen any viable evidence.

 >*Have you personally seen enough evidence to say Yes or No*

I haven't seen any evidence to say et's exist, so I would say
earth has not been visited.

 >If we are to discuss this matter, then can I ask you what is
 >your view on ufology today?
 >*Are we now heading in the right direction*

Ufology today has too many people trying to prove their theory
rather than objectively looking at the data. More objectivity
would be a move in the right direction, but I'm not holding my
breath <g>

 >What do you think is being reported by the public?
 >*What percentage of sightings would suggest a real Phenomena to
 >you*

UFOs are being reported by the public, hence unidentified flying
objects. 100% of the sightings are real to the experiencer or
they wouldn't report them. It's not for me to pull figures out
of the air to state what percentage is a real phenomena. To me
the sighting reports which result in no explanation remain UFOs
in their true form, this is to say they can not be identified,
beyond that point only theories can be applied to explain the
phenomena. Of course we have to assume that the investigators
have exhausted all attempts to identify the UFOs which I don't
believe is always possible by civilian investigators.

 >Do you think there are a lot of over excited people reporting
 >UFOs?
 >*Have you come across such types in your daily group running*

Not particularly.

 >Do you think it possible of life existing elsewhere in the
 >Universe?
 >*Has this Life reached this Planet*

I would assume that it's almost inevitable that life does exist
elsewhere, but whether it is able to reach earth is open to
interpretation by the UFO data available today. If you're asking
me whether I believe it has, then the answer is 'may be' but I
doubt it.

 >If I am right you are/were involved with CSETI  & Project FT (
 >Flying Triangle), by being in these groups would that mean you
 >believe in the existence of ET?
 >*Having read & seen the huge amount of DATA of such groups*

Firstly Project FT is not a group it is a project looking at
FTs.

I did get involved in investigating CSETIs contact protocols,
however the independant research showed no conclusive evidence
of et contact. In answer to your question, researching UFOs
requires an open mind not a predetermined theory to be proved.

 >Would being in these groups given you enough case evidence of
 >something unusual flying in our skies?
 >*If so from what you have seen over the years what is your well
 >seen opinion on UFOs*

Case evidence no, video evidence yes. We have footage of
something not flying but hovering around a nuclear power
station. So in answer to your question, unusual yes, evidence of
extraterrestrial intelligence no.

 >How much evidence do you think the UFO community needs before we
 >can say we are not alone?
 >*Has your group come across such needed evidence for a
 >revelation of ET*

Most certainly irrefutable evidence that extraterrestrials
exist, something along the lines of DNA that could not have
originated on earth. Regarding the UFO group I run, no we
haven't yet come across this type of DNA <g>

 >Should we believe stories of Abductions & Contacts, or look at
 >those who report these as mixed up?

You can believe what you like, but I would much prefer to look
at each abduction case in its own right.

 >*Not discounting the TLF amongst others, where do we stand on
 >present day reports of such events*

You can stand where you like, I'll sit on the fence.

 >Do you think that Black Projects are responsible for the weird craft
 >seen in and around the skies?
 >*Not withstanding the huge Black Project Budgets, is testing taking
 >place around the World in public view*

It's possible.

 >What is your opinion on sky watching, do you think it is a worthwhile
 >method for contacting ET?
 >*Has sky watching in your opinion ever brought good results for ET
 >contact*

In short, no. However, if you mean investigate recurring UFO
sightings in a particular area, then yes. However, I'm referring
to UFOs not necessarily et craft.

 >Do you think it is time that ufology cleaned up it's act and got on with
 >the real job of finding real answers?
 >*Would Government & Media Take ufology Seriously if we did*

I don't think you can hurry up 'real answers' but honest
research is a must for ufology.

 >Do you think there are a lot of time wasters out there who get to
 >emotional about ET?
 >*Emotive Terms Etc...Aliens,Grays,Spacecraft,Hybrids,*

Yes

 >What would your suggetsion be to rid UFOlogy of such types?
 >*A cohesive network strategy as compiled by studies into the UFO
 >phenomena by various groups*

I would suggest that some should view ufology as a science rather
than a religeon.


Thanks for the interview <g>


Tony









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 17

                    Re: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 19:53:51 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:34:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?


 >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:54:34 +0000
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >When the Viking probe took a picture of an anomaly on Mars,
 >history was made. People suggested all manner of things from
 >"proof of life else where" to "shadows creating things that aint
 >there". Now I don't know about you but the following furor was a
 >sight to behold.

 >Now when NASA deemed it worthy they mentioned another probe was
 >going to Mars and that they would take another few pics of a
 >certain little controversial object/anomaly that was causing
 >much debate here on this little mudball we call earth.

 >So we then have some more pics. The raw data does indeed make it
 >look like the face was a lighting anomaly, not an artificial
 >object D'art.

This is wrong.  The MGS image, bad as it is, shows the Face
formation to have all of the salient humanoid qualities
promised by the first two photos (taken, you will recall,
at different sun angles).

When Carl Sagan and others skeptical of the Face (but at least
willing to entertain evidence) talked about confirming data from
post-Viking probes, they stressed that the Face, if it really is
a face, should have additional humanoid features not visible at
Viking's 50 meters-per-pixel resolution.

Exactly this has happened.

We now see symmetric and well-formed "nostrils," located
precisely where they should be if the Face is in fact a
sculpture. The vestige of a pupil has been identified in the
visible "eye socket." Very interesting geometric detail is
obvious on the feature's so-called "headpiece," and the "mouth"
appears to have lips. Of these discoveries, only the headpiece
detail was visible (barely) in the 1976 Viking photos.

The Face, once properly rectified, shows over 90 percent
symmetry--very strange for a purely natural landform, especially
in conjunction with small-scale features like the nostrils. And
even computers, not given to "seeing faces," identify the Face
as the least fractal formation in the region; its morphology
"doesn't belong," and stands in marked contrast to the
natural-looking formations in the Face's vicinity.

 >Personally I think Mars erosive abilities have a
 >lot to answer for cos I didn't think it was the same place, but
 >then I am no expert on this subject, nor am I a photographic
 >expert, so to me this was no conclusion.

Not the "same place"? You think this is _another_ face we're
dealing with?

 >We have two main options, The Face is nothing other than trick
 >of lighting, or, NASA has lied and the new pics are "altered".

Nonsense.  The new pictures haven't been altered; they're
clearly of the same feature in the Viking images.  Furthermore,
work by various imaging experts have shown this to be the case.
The image is certainly substandard, but there's no evidence at
all to call it a hoax.

Also, why do you mention new "pics"?  Only one picture of the
Face was taken.  However, NASA's "official" enhancements of this
one picture were so poorly and bizarrely processed (the
orthrectification used on the TJP image, for example, is only
valid when used on two-dimensional terrain; the Face is 1500
feet tall!) that I guess I can understand the confusion.

 >Being that I am not a conspiracy buff, nor do I subscribe to
 >many alt.nasa news groups, I am left with the only option of
 >working out my own opinion for myself.

If only more shared your attitude instead of choosing to believe
in whatever some of the jokers on Art Bell have to say, or
immediately buying NASA's demonstratably false conclusions.

<snip>

 >Is there a straight answer to the face on Mars? Not unless I go
 >there and walk that hill there wont be for me.

In the meantime, some good new images--already promised to us by
NASA, would certainly help. I challenge anyone to demonstrate
how doing this would hurt science or be even remotely
detrimental to our understanding of Mars' less esoteric
mysteries.

--Mac Tonnies








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 17

                           Re: UFO Net Site Moved

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 15:32:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:38:18 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Net Site Moved


 >From: Anthony Chippendale <anthonyc@ufon.org>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: UFO Net Site Moved
 >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:59:06 -0000

 >Hello Everyone,

 >Would everyone please note that my web site (UFO Net) has now
 >moved and can be found at:

 >http://ufon.org/ufonet/

 >Anthony Chippendale.


Hi People,

If you get five minutes go and check out Anthony's web site it
is packed with info and news.

Well done Anthony!

Roy...








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   Jan > Jan 17

                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:51:51 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:51:11 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 17:45:15 -0500
 >From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hi All,

 >Firstly you must understand that the dream state and similar
 >states during alleged OOBE's and remote viewing are subjective.

Subjective to what degree? Since the event you revealed to me
last year on this list, regarding someone you know of having on
board encounters have you gained any, answers from these events,
or do you think these are just all in the mind of the person(s)?

 >>Tony do you think that Earth has ever been in Contact with ET,
 >>by anyone at all - ever?

 >I haven't seen any viable evidence.

Please state what you would consider viable evidence?

 >>*Have you personally seen enough evidence to say Yes or No*

 >>I haven't seen any evidence to say et's exist, so I would say
 >>earth has not been visited.

If Earth in your opinion has not been visited by ET, what is
your explanation of World wide UFO events?

Would you say that this is your long held  opinion on ETs?

 >>If we are to discuss this matter, then can I ask you what is
 >>your view on ufology today?
 >>*Are we now heading in the right direction*

 >Ufology today has too many people trying to prove their theory
 >rather than objectively looking at the data. More objectivity
 >would be a move in the right direction, but I'm not holding my
 >breath <g>

Do you hold a theory on UFOs and if so, should we consider this
as objectively looking at the DATA?

Or do you know what all UFOs are, so no theory is needed by you,
if so please lets us in on your secret?

 >>What do you think is being reported by the public?
 >>*What percentage of sightings would suggest a real Phenomena to
 >>you*

 >UFOs are being reported by the public, hence unidentified flying
 >objects. 100% of the sightings are real to the experiencer or
 >they wouldn't report them. It's not for me to pull figures out
 >of the air to state what percentage is a real phenomena. To me
 >the sighting reports which result in no explanation remain UFOs
 >in their true form, this is to say they can not be identified
 >beyond that point only theories can be applied to explain the
 >phenomena. Of course we have to assume that the investigators
 >have exhausted all attempts to identify the UFOs which I don't
 >believe is always possible by civilian investigators.

 >Would you agree that there are well renown UFO researchers (some who are on
 >this list) who have proved in exhaustive detail that UFOs are a real
 >phenomena World Wide and of which some can only be seen as ET craft?

 >>Do you think there are a lot of over excited people reporting UFOs?

 >>*Have you come across such types in your daily group running*

 >Not particularly.

Would you say that such people exist?

 >>Do you think it possible of life existing elsewhere in the Universe?
 >>*Has this Life reached this Planet*

 >I would assume that it's almost inevitable that life does exist
 >elsewhere, but whether it is able to reach earth is open to
 >interpretation by the UFO data available today. If you're asking
 >me whether I believe it has, then the answer is 'may be' but I
 >doubt it.

You said:

 >I haven't seen any evidence to say et's exist, so I would say
 >earth has not been visited<

If life exists out side our planet would this be termed as
Extraterrestrial? And what makes you doubt it?

 >>If I am right you are/were involved with CSETI  & Project FT
 >>(Flying Triangle), by being in these groups would that mean you
 >>believe in the existence of ET?
 >>*Having read & seen the huge amount of DATA of such groups*

 >>Firstly Project FT is not a group it is a project looking at FTs>

Having seen the DATA from Project FT in your opinion what are FT
reports?

 >>I did get involved in investigating CSETIs contact protocols,
 >>however the independant research showed no conclusive evidence
 > >of et contact.

 >Are you stating that no one in CSETI World Wide has shown any conclusive
 >evidence of ET Contact?

 >In answer to your question, researching UFOs requires an open
 >mind not a predetermined theory to be proved>

Is CSETI in your mind pushing a predetermined theory ?

 >>Would being in these groups given you enough case evidence of
 >>something unusual flying in our skies?
 >>*If so from what you have seen over the years what is your well
 >>seen opinion on UFOs*

 >Case evidence no, video evidence yes. We have footage of
 >something not flying but hovering around a nuclear power
 >station. So in answer to your question, unusual yes, evidence of
 >extraterrestrial intelligence no.

For the object(s) on video to be labelled "extraterrestrial
intelligence" what action would they have to submit to? What is
your checklist for extraterrestrial behaviour?

 >>How much evidence do you think the UFO community needs before we
 >>can say we are not alone?
 >>*Has your group come across such needed evidence for a
 >>revelation of ET*

 >Most certainly irrefutable evidence that extraterrestrials
 >exist, something along the lines of DNA that could not have
 >originated on earth. Regarding the UFO group I run, no we
 >haven't yet come across this type of DNA <g>

Do you inform members of your group that ET does not exist
because we have no DNA evidence?

 >>Should we believe stories of Abductions & Contacts, or look at
 >>those who report these as mixed up?

 >You can believe what you like, but I would much prefer to look
 >at each abduction case in its own right.

So once you have looked at each case in it's own right have you
come to any conclusion to the above?

After doing so how do you inform the Abductee of what they are
experiencing, have you ever said

"After my Investigation I believe you are experiencing.... or
can you tell them without a doubt that they are not, having
Abduction events take place..what terminology would you use?

 >>*Not discounting the TLF amongst others, where do we stand on
 >>present day reports of such events*

 >You can stand where you like, I'll sit on the fence

Would you say you can gain all the results you need from sitting
on the fence <g>

 >>Do you think that Black Projects are responsible for the weird craft
 >>seen in and around the skies?
 >>*Not withstanding the huge Black Project Budgets, is testing taking
 >>place around the World in public view*

 >It's possible

If you think it is possible then please tell us why they would
do this in public view World Wide?

 >>What is your opinion on sky watching, do you think it is a worthwhile
 >>method for contacting ET?
 >>*Has sky watching in your opinion ever brought good results for ET
 >>contact*

 >In short, no. However, if you mean investigate recurring UFO
 >sightings in a particular area, then yes. However, I'm referring
 >to UFOs not necessarily et craft.

If you don't believe in ET, then what would an ET craft mean as
you stated?

 >>Do you think it is time that ufology cleaned up it's act and got on with
 >>the real job of finding real answers?
 >>*Would Government & Media Take ufology Seriously if we did*

 >I don't think you can hurry up 'real answers' but honest
 >research is a must for ufology.

By honest research you mean?

 >>Do you think there are a lot of time wasters out there who get to
 >>emotional about ET?
 >>*Emotive Terms Etc...Aliens,Grays,Spacecraft,Hybrids,*

 >Yes

Would you call these people over excited on UFOs?

 >>What would your suggetsion be to rid UFOlogy of such types?
 >>*A cohesive network strategy as compiled by studies into the UFO
 >>phenomena by various groups*

 >I would suggest that some should view ufology as a science rather
 >than a religeon

So UFO research is a Science?

If what you say is true does mainstream Science practice ufology?

If yes could you publish all the Scientists you know who are
practising ufology?

 >Thanks for the interview <g>

Anytime <g>

Roy..








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                            Alfred's Odd Ode #334

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 07:22:12 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:36:25 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #334


Apology to MW #334 (For January 15, 2000)

How placid was that gentle wave that washed the globe for hours
-- that *wave* of year two thousand so foreboding, strained, and
dour. "Sturm and Drang", and gnashing teeth was the prophesy
foretold, but all I saw was calmness, and a will to be more
bold. All I saw was calm sobriety, and a tranquil
thoughtfulness. All I heard was making music in a world on its
quest. All I smelled was leaves of winter as they lay upon the
ground, a reminder that they'd come again as spring should slide
around. And spring WOULD come when we were strong, and blessed
with all our health, and we might learn to see, at last, BEYOND
-- to REAL wealth.

The time is now; the world's HERE, it didn't self-destruct! The
future is awakening! We make our OWN good luck. We take a breath
(our blessings counted), and begin to see what's there . . .
find the others standing hopelessly beyond concern or care. And
these, the sad rejected, are not brought in on the dream that a
few can take for granted (if they filter out the screams). It's
them must be *involved* somehow . . . if we're to seize our day,
if we're to have a grand success -- "soar and cleave", or "feet
of clay". The kingdom is at hand, my friend. We grasp it, or we
don't. It's right there for the taking; if we don't -- we ape
the dolt.

Science is a blessing if one *really* follows data, and one cops
to implication's larger views. If you know the trust for people
that will tell you what they saw (?) though they, still and all,
have quite a bit to lose? Folks like Jimmy Carter spring to mind
for clearer reference, or Farrakhan all twisted in his rage; my
brother and his wife have equal weight and they're more real --
call it "anecdotal evidence" to wave. I've boiled all the video
that I've seen to twenty minutes (give or take some scary
seconds to and fro), and what there is remaining is beyond the
strangest thing, and a *teaser* for a guy who wants to know. And
forgetting all the video, I've chanced to watch the sky, and
I've seen peculiar lights that don't make sense. The mainstream
won't go near it, what's *peculiar* is off limits, so I read the
kind of news I get from Rense.

I can't escape the shadows that extend from circumstance, and I
can't evade the questions they propose. I can't avoid the
lessons of the very, very old -- as what they knew, and when
they knew it, they've disclosed. They wrote it pretty plainly --
all the planets that we know. They left it in their records,
stones, and seals. They named the belt of asteroids splitting
Jupiter from Mars as the "bracelet for its star" -- the real
deal. Neptune and Uranus were identified as twins, plus the
greenness, or the blueness of their hues. It's right there in
the record that is treated as mere myth though it drips with all
the references and clues.

. . . And this is just BEGINNING the historical account of a
story that just will not go away. Written in its annals are
descriptions of the puzzle that if put together right would
sieze the day. They're woven in our culture, (why, they're
selling what we buy!), but we do not know the *purpose* they
suggest. It's like we have some "proctor" with assessments,
checks, and tools, (so I wonder how we're doing on its test).
One might as well conduct themselves with THIS attitude
employed: an admission that they're here, and (yes) quite close.
Why not? If they are *there*, as it's admitted (and the
mainstream says it's so), then why not up the Bunky's bulbous
nose.

The future yawns before us like the matchless depth of space,
and the end is not for us, as yet, to see. The potential for
success (as huge as glaring/gloating failure) is a treasure that
is there for you and me. Some will whistle up excuses how they
knew it all along -- others wallow in their terror of defeat.
Some will take a deep breath and adapt to what it is --quickly
changing when they're thinking on their feet. That's the mood
that took the world as all the "numbers" moved? A hopeful
contemplation -- optimistic?  There WAS a placid calmness in
that day that washed the world. The mood was *charged* (no
tension!)  -- and FANTASTIC!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

We would be as gods -- is it time for another unjust destruction
of Babel?

Restore John Ford.


--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 15 January>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.









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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Tony Spurrier <TSpurrier@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 15:32:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:49:56 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

 >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 16:51:51 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Subjective to what degree? Since the event you revealed to me
 >last year on this list, regarding someone you know of having on
 >board encounters have you gained any, answers from these events,
 >or do you think these are just all in the mind of the person(s)?

As I said at the time, the encounters were brought on by
suggestion, therefore not real.

What do you think of these types of reports?

 >Please state what you would consider viable evidence?

I believe I have already said.

What do you consider viable evidence?

 >If Earth in your opinion has not been visited by ET, what is
 >your explanation of World wide UFO events?

It may be news to you but there is more than one explanation for
UFO sightings.

Do you have one theory that covers all UFO sightings?

 >Would you say that this is your long held  opinion on ETs?

Yes.

 >Do you hold a theory on UFOs and if so, should we consider this
 >as objectively looking at the DATA?

I don't hold an overall theory, UFOs are unidentified flying
objects.

 >Or do you know what all UFOs are, so no theory is needed by you,
 >if so please lets us in on your secret?

Perhaps you should read the accronym again and memorise the
'unidentified' bit? <g>

Do you consider all unidentified sightings to be
extraterrestrial?

 >Would you say that such people exist?

Of course over excited people exist, have a look in a play
ground and see how kids react, are these questions really
relevant?

 >If life exists out side our planet would this be termed as
 >Extraterrestrial? And what makes you doubt it?

Of course life originating outside earth could be termed
extraterrestrial. Why do I doubt it, I think the lack of
evidence is a good start.

What evidence do you think exists that extraterrestrials are
visiting earth?

 >Having seen the DATA from Project FT in your opinion what are FT
 >reports?

FT sightings are sightings of what people think are Flying
Triangles, really Roy this is very basic stuff <g>. I see, you
mean what do I think they are? Well, some are misidentifications
however, some are likely to be an advanced VTOL. If you want a
diffinitive answer then you are a little premature as the
investigations are ongoing.

 >Is CSETI in your mind pushing a predetermined theory ?

Yes.

 >For the object(s) on video to be labelled "extraterrestrial
 >intelligence" what action would they have to submit to?

I would imagine proof that they are extraterrestrial.

 >What is your checklist for extraterrestrial behaviour?

I don't have one, do you?

 >Do you inform members of your group that ET does not exist
 >because we have no DNA evidence?

The group I jointly runs allows members to think for themselves,
it's not for me to tell them anything.

Do you think that those who run groups should dictate to their
members?

 >So once you have looked at each case in it's own right have you
 >come to any conclusion to the above?

 >After doing so how do you inform the Abductee of what they are
 >experiencing, have you ever said

 >"After my Investigation I believe you are experiencing.... or
 >can you tell them without a doubt that they are not, having
 >Abduction events take place..what terminology would you use?

I don't investigate abductions.

What do you say?

 >Would you say you can gain all the results you need from sitting
 >on the fence <g>

All the answers no, but I don't get emotional about being wrong
because I don't have a theory that I'm trying to prove.

 >If you think it is possible then please tell us why they would
 >do this in public view World Wide?

By asking the question you may have the answer?

 >If you don't believe in ET, then what would an ET craft mean as
 >you stated?

In general et craft means a craft which is extraterrestrial in
origin, I used the term as not being an et craft as meaning not
of extraterrestrial origin, it's quite simple really.

 >By honest research you mean?

Research which is free from prejudice.

 >Would you call these people over excited on UFOs?

Some yes.

 >So UFO research is a Science?

It should be carried out in a scientific manner.

How do you think UFO research should be carried out?

 >If yes could you publish all the Scientists you know who are
 >practising ufology?

Cooking is a science Roy, surely you're not saying that only
scientists can cook <g>. Let's simplify the matter for you, the
definition of science is 'systematic study and knowledge of
natural or physical phenomena, any branch of study concerned
with observed matrerial facts'. I hope this clears your
misunderstanding up.

Tony









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                      Telescopes Spot An Unseen Cosmos

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:55:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:54:32 -0500
Subject: Telescopes Spot An Unseen Cosmos


Telescopes Spot an Unseen Cosmos
Scientists find lone black holes and address an X-ray puzzle
By Alan Boyle - MSNBC

SOURCE: http://www.msnbc.com/news/357117.asp

Jan. 13 �  NASA�s Chandra X-Ray Observatory has picked up
ultrafaint, ultradistant objects that don�t show up in visible
light, but may provide the key to solving a 37-year-old puzzle
in astronomy, scientists say. Meanwhile, other telescopes have
found evidence of another invisible curiosity in our own galaxy:
lone black holes adrift in space.

Both revelations were announced Thursday at the winter meeting
of the American Astronomical Society in Atlanta, and both have
to do with black holes, the mysterious phenomena that are
standard fare for science fiction.

Gravitational theory dictates that, under the right conditions,
a suitably massive star could collapse in on itself at the end
of its life � creating an object so dense that not even light
can escape its gravitational pull. Although the black hole
itself wouldn�t be visible, matter in its general vicinity would
swirl into the �hole� like water going down a bathtub drain. The
force of that swirl would be violent enough to cast off a burst
of radiation, scientists say � and such bursts have indeed shown
up in X-ray observations. That�s where Chandra comes in.

Meanwhile, scientists have used another technique, known as
�microlensing,� to spot two isolated black holes in our own
galaxy. Even though there were no telltale emissions from around
the objects, they could be detected by carefully watching their
gravitational effect on the starlight coming from behind them.
The two teams used NASA�s Hubble Space Telescope as well as
ground-based telescopes in Australia and Chile. Here�s what
scientists have concluded from the newly announced observations:

SPOTTING BLACK HOLES
The new observations in the Milky Way are significant not only
because they provide evidence that these bizarre things called
black holes actually exist: They also indicate that fairly
normal stars can spawn black holes. In fact, scientists believe
that the newly detected objects are each only about six times as
massive as our own sun.

�These results suggest that black holes are common, and that
many massive but normal stars may end their lives as black holes
instead of neutron stars,� Notre Dame researcher David Bennett
said in a written statement. Based on the assumptions about the
mass, the Notre Dame researchers estimate that one of the black
holes is about 6,600 light-years from Earth. Each light year
equals about 6 trillion miles or 10 trillion kilometers.

Until now, black holes have been detected only as part of a
multiple-star system or at the center of galaxies. The new
observations help confirm the theory that black holes can form
all by themselves through the collapse of isolated massive
stars.

The two objects were detected indirectly in 1996 and1998 by the
Massive Compact Halo Object project, using the 4-foot
(1.3-meter) telescope at the Mount Stromlo Observatory in
Canberra, Australia, with follow-up observations by the Global
Microlensing Alert Network in Chile and the Microlensing Planet
Search project in Australia. Hubble provided additional images
last year.

This image[SEE WEBSITE], captured by the Hubble Space Telescope,
highlights a star whose light has been brightened by the
influence of an unseen object acting as a gravitational lens
between the star and Earth. Scientists believe the unseen object
is  a black hole.

The astronomers�microlensing technique watches the sky for light
distortions caused when a dark object passes in front of a more
distant field of stars. If the dark object is massive enough,
its gravitational influence will bend light rays from the
faraway sources like a lens � creating distinctive banana-shaped
or ring-shaped patterns.

Careful analysis of the distortion patterns can yield
information about the distance and mass of the unseen object in
the middle. About 300 microlensing events have been recorded so
far, some of them hinting at the existence of unseen planets or
burned-out stars.

Researchers said the two objects reported Thursday are too
massive to be planets, brown dwarfs, white dwarfs or neutron
stars � and that leaves black holes as the best explanation for
the microlensing data.








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                        Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter

From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:35:16 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:27:16 -0500
Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter


 >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:57:31 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 17:45:33 +1100
 >>From: Bill Alford <googong@interact.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: The Photon-Belt Encounter
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>FARMERS in the high Andes Mountains may have been able to
 >>predict El Nino for centuries by observing whether clouds dimmed
 >>the light from a cluster of stars called the Pleiades.

 >>A potato farming tradition handed down from one generation to
 >>the next teaches that the brightness of stars in the
 >>constellation during June roughly predicted the rainfall during
 >>the growing season from October to May.

 >I have astronomer friends who observe the sky from world class
 >telescopes on the Andes Mountains because of the excellent
 >seeing, transparency and darkness of the night sky found there
 >who will disagree with you. From meteorological daytime cloud
 >data, every day could be overcast during El Nino years and still
 >produce the _same_ cloudless night skies as on non-El Nino
 >years.

 >Furthermore, the Pleiades are simply a very prominent star
 >cluster and _not_ a constellation. They are also _not_ visible
 >in June because of their close proximity to the Sun - so how
 >would the potato farmers see them without going blind?

The above newspaper report that I originally quoted, which I
prefaced with the comment "errors and all" to cover the obvious
one of the Pleiades not being a constellation, was based on the
paper "Forecasting Andean rainfall and crop yield from the
influence of El Nino on Pleiades visibility" by Benjamin S
Orlove, John C Chiang and Mark A Crane, Nature, 403, 6 January
2000, pp 68-71. I'll quote from the abstract and first paragraph
of this paper to answer Nick's comments:

"...Here we use data on cloud cover and water vapour from
satellite imagery, agronomic data from the Andean antiplano and
an index of El Nino variability to analyse this forecasting
method. We find that poor visibility of the Pleiades in June -
caused by an increase in subvisual high cirrus clouds - is
indicative of an El Nino year, which is usually linked to
reduced rainfall during the growing season several months later.
... Observations often begin around 15 June and culminate on 24
June, the festival of San Juan. They occur an hour or two before
dawn, when the Pleiades are located low over the horizon to the
northeast."

I have checked the accuracy of the last sentence with
astronomical software.

 >Regretfully, there were few facts in your e-mail and nothing
 >that convinced me of even a remote association between the
 >Pleiades and E.T.s.

This is what started off this e-mail thread when I stated that
the Pleiades are too young to independently support anything
like life yet.


Bill Alford
googong@interact.net.au
http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa








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               Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:59:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:59:42 -0500
Subject: Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites

http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/sat.htm

Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites

1-15-2000

The December 1999 issue of Spaceflight magazine carried two
letters from writers looking for explanations of a curious
celestial phenomenon: a triangle of lights crossing the night
sky.

Summary

NOSS/Parcae sightings probably do not account for very many of
the flood of "triangle UFO" sightings. The lights are dim, are
visible only for an hour or so before and move in straight lines
across the sky. Still, the phenomenon underscores the richness
of prosaic visual stimuli out there waiting to mislead naive
observers, and so would-be researchers should do well to rule
NOSS out as an explanation before leaping to conclusions.


Satellites are not just steady points of light --they can flash
and can travel "in formation." They can emit clouds of fuel or
waste water or even sport visible thread-like tethers.

Letter writer Nick Spall described what he saw from Cornwall at
about 10 PM on August 10, 1999. The triangular-shaped formation
moved from north to south passed the star Altair.

"With the naked eye the formation appeared as one object," Spall
wrote. However, "through binoculars (7x50) the group was
resolved into three steady pinpoints travelling together in
formation."

A second letter from A.R. Thompson in Surrey echoed the first
account.

"On 4 September 1999 I was sitting in my garden enjoying the
cool of late evening," he wrote, "when I noticed three
satellites apparently moving in a triangular 'formation' ... I
have never witnessed satellites moving in the same direction and
maintaining the same position relative to one another."

He described the lights as about stellar magnitude 4, dim but
easily seen in a dark, clear sky. Thompson reported he first
noticed them at about 21:59 as they moved downwards into the
constellation of Pegasus.

"The 'triangle' was about 2 degrees by 3 degrees isosceles. They
took between one and two minutes to pass through Pegasus, before
fading."

Triangles or triplets?

The two Englishmen hadn't been alone in being perplexed by
"flying triangles" in the sky, but when the unearthly answer was
eventually found, it promised to also account for many other
such reports.

The November/December 1999 issue of Skyviews, edited by Canadian
amateur astronomy guru Terence Dickinson, contained this amazing
account: "On three consecutive nights during the Starfest star
party in August 1996, a formation of 3 unblinking starlike
objects in a flattened triangular configuration was seen
cruising across the star fields by dozens of observers. Veteran
stargazers at the meeting had never seen anything like it."

Consultations with amateur satellite-watchers soon identified
the sighting as another "NOSS triplet" formation. Computer
predictions based on known orbits showed the man-made space
objects had indeed been passing overhead at the time of the
sightings.

But what kind of explanation was that, really? First of all,
what on earth -- or off earth -- is "NOSS"?

Three watching eyes

This space project is so secret that even its official name
remains a topic of debate, so observers dubbed it the "Naval
Ocean Surveillance System," or NOSS.

The US currently operates three sets of spy satellites, launched
consecutively in 1990, 1991 and 1996. These satellites orbit
pole-to-pole in groups of three at an altitude of 1,100
kilometers, monitoring the position, speed and direction of all
military ships at sea by detecting radio and radar signals and
then triangulating the point of origin..

The components of the trio orbit separately under Newton's Laws,
and are not technically "in formation." However, their orbits
are planned to crisscross during every circuit, being widest
apart over ocean areas of greatest interest.

The project's Top Secret name is reportedly "Parcae," the Roman
name for the three somber, all-seeing goddesses who observe
human activity and determine justice for individuals. If so,
perhaps they call the satellites "Clotho," "Lachesis" and
"Atropos" at the top secret Parcae "mission control center."

The visible secret

In the case of the two English observers, Ed Cameron, an amateur
astronomer in central Texas, found the precise answer -- NOSS
satellites flying overhead at the time and same direction as in
their reports.

Spall had seen what Cameron calls "the NOSS 2-3 trio," and
Thompson had been observing "the NOSS 2-2 trio."

Amateur spacewatchers have known about these objects for a long
timer. But there was some debate whether the satellites would be
visible to the naked eye.

Professor Brian Hunter of Queen's University in Kingston,
Ontario has photographed NOSS 2-2 passing through the
constellation Lyra in late 1997.

"This pass was seen [with the] naked eye by many in the
Northeastern US," he noted when posting the image to the
internet.

Other eyewitness accounts

Also online, a Kansas amateur astronomer calling himself "Stosh"
reported the trios "can be seen pretty easily, as I can attest."

"Stosh" provided details. "While looking for meteors on the
morning of the '99 Leonids, my 7 year old daughter picked them
out, pointed them to me, and even my old eyes caught them right
away," he reported. "I'd say they were at least a 4 magnitude. "

He added that there were several reports of others seeing them
that morning.

And Daniel Deak of Drummondville, Qubec, chimed in, calling
naked-eye NOSS sightings "not speculation but ... fact."

"I saw the NOSS 2-2 trio with 3 other people last April when the
Moon was in the sky," he noted. "They were at magnitude 3.5, so
very easy to see -- in relatively dark
skies."








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   Jan > Jan 18

                        'Mission To Mars' - Synopsis

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:10:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:10:04 -0500
Subject: 'Mission To Mars' - Synopsis





Source: Touchstone Pictures

http://movies.go.com/m2m/flash/index.html

 From acclaimed director Brian De Palma, MISSION TO MARS is a
dramatic space adventure starring Gary Sinise, Don Cheadle,
Connie Nielsen, Jerry O�Connell, and Tim Robbins.

When the first manned mission to Mars meets with a catastrophic
and mysterious disaster, a rescue mission is launched to
investigate the tragedy and bring back any survivors.

Exciting and realistic, 'Mission To Mars' is the inspirational
story of the astronauts of the hurried Mars Recovery mission,
the almost insurmountable dangers that confront the heroic crew
on their journey through space, and the amazing discovery they
make when they finally reach the Red Planet.

---


ebk











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   Jan > Jan 18

                    UFO Report: Hamilton, Ohio - 01-17-00

From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET>
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 17:45:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:23:31 -0500
Subject: UFO Report: Hamilton, Ohio - 01-17-00


UFO Report

Location - Hamilton, Ohio [Butler County], North Derexa Drive,
near Greenwoods Cemetery

Date: Monday, January 17, 2000
Time: Approximately 7:05 a.m.

Duration of sighting: less than 1-second

As a result of a message from Ohio MUFON Director Bill Jones, a
phone call was placed to a resident of Hamilton, Ohio regarding
a UFO sighting from earlier this morning. The witness located
Mr. Jones from the MUFON State Directory website, and then
talked to Mr. Jones by telephone later in the afternoon. Mr.
Jones conveyed the phone number of the witness so that the
claimant might be interviewed and a report could be taken.

Upon speaking with the witness, he explained that he had made
detailed notes of the sighting, and transcribed below are
excerpts from those notes, which he read while we discussed his
sighting:


"I was standing in my fiancee's home facing south, southeast,
looking out the kitchen window. I say exactly because I had to
determine direction using the most accurate map of the area that
I know of."


The witness attempted measurements of the south/southeast
position using houses in the area, streets and maps. Looking out
his kitchen window into an open area with unobstructed view of
the sky, the witness reported observing an object which appeared
as a round "area" of light.


"It was not moving as fast as a meteor or shooting star," he
said, "but was moving almost as fast. It appeared out of
nowhere, as if turning on a flashlight. It appeared and
descended at a high speed.

"As the object descended, it seemed to pause momentarily, then
seemed to reverse direction, as if hesitating," the witness
wrote in his notes.


The witness informed that there seemed to be some rotation
during the pause. At that moment, the witness noted, the object
seemed "3-Dimensional," and was perceived to have a concave
shape.

The object finally departed from view by assuming a slight
adjustment in course and disappearing behind neighborhood
houses.

The size of the object was about 1/4 that of the moon, or about
the end of a pencil eraser held at arms length. It was
whitish-colored with a slight bluish-tint. It was about half as
bright as a streetlight, and somewhat diffused, yet still
defined. Its altitude was perceived to be 'well below' that of
commercial air traffic, yet higher than smaller, local planes.
It was his impression that this object was in his immediate
vicinity, perhaps mere miles away.

The witness has previously been in truck-driving industry, he
informed, and was presently a student between careers. He has
attended a recent class at Miami University.


"If it was a meteor, it was strange. At that moment, when it
paused, it did appear to be concave and spinning on its side."


COMMENT:

The observer was notably struck by the unusual ballistic
performance of this descending object, which would complicate a
'meteor' or 'bolide' explanation. However, a factor in this
sighting report must be the 1-second time duration, which
presents challenging perceptive circumstances for any witness to
accurately recall detail, most especially under unannounced
conditions. A meteor, under any condition, is an unusual thing
to see in the sky, and could confound even the best qualified
observers.

The claimant further informed that he would be curious to learn
if anyone else in the area had also spotted this object.

Filed,
January 17, 2000
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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   Jan > Jan 18

                             Ed Dames Gets Sued

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:24:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:17:03 -0500
Subject: Ed Dames Gets Sued


You'd think with all of his incredible remote viewing prowess
that Ed Dames would have seen this coming. After all, this is
the guy who remote viewed Satan and said the Hale-Flopp comet
would bring a fungus that would destroy the planet. So much for
accuracy let alone credibility.

Ed, wait a minute, I'm getting something. It's a number and some
letters... 13... C... H... CHAPTER 13... good grief! It works!

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
_____________________________________________________________

1-17-2000
PRESS RELEASE
(For Immediate Release)
*SOURCE: Jeff Rense (www.rense.com)


Harry DeLigter Wins Lawsuit Against
PSI TECH, Inc., Ed Dames and Jonina Dourif,
For Breach of Contract


   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Los Angeles, California - January 17, 2000 -- Lightworks Audio &
Video, Inc. and Harry DeLigter Productions announced today the
decision in favor of Mr. DeLigter made by the Superior Court of
California against PSI TECH, Inc.. The case was brought by Mr.
DeLigter in order to recover damages under contracts with PSI
TECH for the production and distribution of videotapes on the
subject of Technical Remote Viewing. The tapes he produced were
to have been distributed through Lightworks Audio & Video, Inc.
Mr. DeLigter also serves as the President of Lightworks.

On December 10, 1999, Superior Court Judge Valerie Baker handed
down a decision against Defendant PSI TECH, Inc. in a breach of
contract action brought against Mr. Edward Dames, President and
Mrs. Jonina Dourif, Vice President of PSI TECH, Inc., by Mr.
Harry DeLigter, President of Harry DeLigter Productions, finding
that PSI TECH was guilty of breaching their contract with Harry
DeLigter Productions.


The contract pertained to the production and distribution of a
series of home study videotapes on the subject of Technical
Remote Viewing (TRV).

TRV is a methodology for viewing people, places or things, past,
present or future, using the power of ones own mind. Originally
pioneered by the Stanford Research Institute in the late 1970s
as an offshoot of research into ESP, this work garnered the
interest and support of the US government and was soon utilized
by the CIA and the US Army. Mr. Dames acquired his exposure to
this psychic methodology while serving in the US Armys Remote
Viewing unit. After approximately twenty years in the Army, Mr.
Dames retired with the rank of Major and went into business
teaching people how to do remote viewing. He and Mr. DeLigter
entered into a venture whereby Mr. DeLigter produced tapes of
Dames teaching with the expressed contractual arrangement to
distribute the tapes through Lightworks Audio & Video, Inc.

These videotapes were designed to teach people how to do remote
view. Mr. DeLigter is President of Lightworks Audio & Video,
Inc. in Los Angeles, California - a distributor specializing in
the dissemination of empowering home video - marketing on the
world wide web at www.lightworksAV.com.

After considering the evidence presented during a two week trial
held in November at the California Superior Courthouse in
Beverly Hills, California, Judge Baker issued a judgement in
favor of Plaintiff DeLigter against Defendants PSI TECH in the
amount of $335,200.00 for breach of contract plus costs and
legal fees.

DeLigter and Dames had contracted with each other on December
11, 1996 to produce a series of home video tapes on Technical
Remote Viewing, to be distributed by Lightworks Audio & Video,
Inc. Revenues were to have been shared among the parties.

After several appearances on the Art Bell Radio Program in
January and February of 1997, Mr. Dames came to realize that
these promotions of the tapes had resulted in considerable
sales. Soon after this realization, he and Mrs. Dourif proceeded
to cut Mr. DeLigter out of the deal, ultimately taking the
master tapes and selling them themselves, without repaying Mr.
DeLigter as an investor, without honoring the revenue sharing
provisions of their contract and without honoring the
distribution deal that was made with Lightworks Audio & Video,
Inc.

Mr. DeLigter had been working in good faith to keep the project
on track when Mr. Dames took the tapes, thereby preventing Mr.
DeLigter from completing his work as the producer on the
project. Efforts to re-negotiate their contracts broke down and
in May of 1997, Mr. Dames took the master tapes from the editor
hired by DeLigter Productions, Mr. William Gazecki, thus leaving
Mr. DeLigter in the unpleasant position of having to initiate
litigation in order to get paid.

According to the decision of the Court, the Plaintiff met his
burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence all of the
elements of breach of contract. The weight of the credible
evidence shows that the Defendants Dames and Dourif on behalf of
Defendant PSI TECH freely negotiated with Plaintiff and entered
into a valid, enforceable contract.

The evidence showed consideration as well as performance on the
part of the Plaintiff. The evidence established that Mr.
DeLigter and his company engaged in the business of locating
relatively obscure people with eclectic talents, providing them
with a base to develop and promote their talents and produce and
disseminate tapes.

The second paragraph of (their production contract) states,
WHEREAS the Producers are producing products on the subject of
Technical Remote Viewing involving The Creators (Dames and
Dourif). The third paragraph states, WHEREAS the Creators wish
to appear in and contribute to said Products and wish to
cooperate with the Producers (DeLigter Productions) in order to
participate in the creation of such programs. The fourth
paragraph begins, WHEREAS, the parties agree to work together
for mutual benefit in the creation and production of a series of
products. The weight of the evidence showed that the Plaintiffs
performed as Producers under the contract until their
performance was prevented by the Defendants breach.

Judge Baker continues, The evidence showed that Mr. DeLigter
met with Mr. Dames and Ms. Dourif on several

occasions and informed them as to who he is and how he has done
business. Neither duress nor undue influence was shown. Mistake
was not shown. Instead, the evidence established that the
essential terms of the agreement were negotiated and that they
were sufficiently clear to the parties. The Defendants had a
choice. They could have declined to do business with Plaintiffs.
They could have refused to sign the contract.

Contrary to the Defendants assertion, the essential terms of
the agreement were determined. The defense that there was merely
an agreement to agree lacks sufficient factual and legal
support. The evidence shows consideration and significant
performance was by both sides after the contract was signed.
Plaintiffs further performance was prevented by the Defendants
breach of the contract.

As Mr. Price (of Ropers, Majeski, Kohn & Bentley, attorney for
the Plaintiff) argued, the agreement provided that the
Plaintiff, DeLigter, was to bring his talent to the project and
he did. When the first phase of production was completed and it
looked like the project would be very profitable, Mr. Dames,
acting for PSI TECH, started to back out and take steps to
exclude the Plaintiffs from the project. On or about April 1,
1997, Mr. Dames hired another distributor, Mr. Frederich
Mansfield Bonsall, III (who served as CEO of PSI TECH from
April, 1997 to April,1999). According Mr. Bonsalls testimony,
Mr. Dames made it clear to him that he was hired by PSI TECH to
supplant Lightworks. On May 6, 1997, Mr. Dames caused the tapes
to be taken from Mr. Gazeckis office. (Mr. Gazecki had been
hired by Mr. DeLigter to edit the TRV tapes.)

The testimony (of forensic accountant, Nancy) Le Clair and
(ex-CEO) Bonsall was credible and proved support for the
Plaintiffs case. Additionally, the testimony of Mr. DeLigter
had credibility and was uncontroverted in most material areas.
It was generally supportive of the Plaintiffs breach of
contract claims. Attempts to impeach Mr. DeLigter with prior
deposition testimony were not effective. There were no material
inconsistencies. Mr. DeLigters credibility , however, was
somewhat impeached when he was cross-examined about exhibits,
86, 88 and 89. He also has an obvious interest in this
litigation. In general, however, his testimony was credible
particularly to the extent it was corroborated by the testimony
of other witnesses and exhibits.

Mr. DeLigters testimony established that the contract was
freely negotiated and entered into by the parties. His testimony
established Plaintiffs performance as well as the Defendants
initial performance until their breach. Plaintiff was active in
the filming in Hawaii and the subsequent filming in the PSI TECH
office. Mr. DeLigter hired Mr. (William) Gazecki and Mr.
(Michael) Horn to work on the project. Mr. DeLigter also worked
on pre-sale procedures and initiated the relationship with the
Call Center. According to Mr. DeLigters uncontroverted
testimony, the filming continued into April 1997; Mr. Gazecki
was editing the program and in April 1997 provided the parties
with the video master called Beta Testing. Correspondence as
well as Mr. DeLigters testimony shows that beginning in April
1997, Mr. Dames became belligerent and increasingly
uncooperative. Mr. DeLigter, on the other hand, tried to
cooperate and accommodate Mr. Dames and the other Defendants.
Finally, Plaintiffs were prevented from continuing their
performance when the tapes were taken from Gazeckis office in
the first week of May. Additionally, Mr. DeLigters testimony as
well as other evidence, including Exhibits 77, 79 and 80, show
that the Defendants used the product developed with Plaintiffs
for their own interest and profit. This conduct by the
Defendants in failing to cooperate, taking the tapes and
misappropriating the product all violated the contract and
caused the Plaintiffs monetary damages.

Much of Mr. DeLigters testimony and Plaintiffs claims were
corroborated by the credible testimony of Mr. Michael Horn. Mr.
Horns testimony showed that the Defendants voluntarily and
actively participated in contract negotiations and knowingly and
deliberately entered into the contract with the Plaintiffs. His
testimony also corroborated Mr. DeLigters testimony about
Plaintiffs performance under the contract. Mr. Horn testified
credibly about the production efforts and accomplishments,
culminating in the editing and beta testing on the project in
March and early April.

Throughout this period, the Defendants worked with the
Plaintiffs pursuant to the contract. Mr. Horn confirmed that all
of the shooting and 90 to 95 percent of the editing of Module 1
had been done by the time the tapes were removed from Gazeckis
office in early May 1997. According to Mr. Horn, a portion of
Module 2 had been shot prior to the tapes being taken. Mr. Horn
also testified that Mr. Dames and Ms. Dourif told him that they
took the tapes, that they wanted to form their own team, and
that they did not want to work with Mr. DeLigter. According to
Mr. Horn, they also stated that they intended to bankrupt Mr.
DeLigter and they would make DeLigter spend his (inheritance)
money.

Through cross examination of Mr. Horn, the defense introduced
evidence suggesting that there were problems with DeLigters
performance before the tapes were taken, i.e., not paying Mr.
Horn and Gazecki and not running Lightworks properly, etc. None
of these problems, however, amounted to nonperformance by
DeLigter and none of these problems would excuse or somehow
justify the conduct of the Defendants which breached the
contract and prevented further performance by Plaintiffs.

The testimony of William Gazecki also provided some support for
the Plaintiffs breach of contract claim against Defendant PSI
TECH. He corroborated Mr. DeLigters testimony regarding
Plaintiffs performance of the contract and the Defendants
breach of the contract. Mr. Gazeckis testimony showed that Mr.
DeLigter hired him, agreed to pay him, and did on occasion pay
him. See also Exhibits 52 and 54. Mr. Gazecki stated that the
bills went to Deligter and were paid by him. As to the
Plaintiffs performance, Mr. Gazecki testified about the
conversations he had with Mr. DeLigter about the project in
early 1997, about DeLigters sending him the material shot in
Hawaii to review, and about conversations he later had with
DeLigter and Horn concerning the content of the tapes. He stated
that Mr. DeLigter, Mr. Horn and he created a road map, a
description of what they were trying to do. He also testified
about shooting film all day in Mr. Dames Beverly Hills office
while he was still employed by Mr. DeLigter. Mr. Gazeckis
testimony and correspondence showed that Mr. DeLigter was
actively involved in the production of the program through the
end of April, 1997. See, e.g., Exhibits 42, 44 and 45. Mr.
Gazeckis testimony and correspondence belied a lack of
cooperation on the part of Mr. Dames. See, e.g., Exhibit 30. His
testimony confirmed a deliberate, calculated breach of contract
by the Defendant. Mr. Gazecki testified about the tapes being
taken. He stated that after the tapes were taken, he was
employed by PSI TECH and, in this capacity, shot film at PSI
TECHs office. He was in charge of the technical function and
was under the direction of Mr. Dames. After the tapes were
taken, he also entered in an Indemnity Agreement with Mr. Dames.

The defense was limited in large part because neither Mr. Dames
nor Ms. Dourif testified. Additionally, the Plaintiffs
introduced deposition testimony of Mr. Dames which tended to
impeach Mr. Dames credibility and call into question the
defense. Portions of the deposition testimony also corroborated
the Plaintiffs breach of contract claims.

Thus, nearly three years to the day after this project began, a
Superior Court Judge was required to sort out the nonsense from
the facts. And the facts are that Mr. DeLigter entered into a
legally binding contract with Mr. Dames and Ms. Dourif , and was
cheated out of money due him by Mr. Dames and Ms. Dourif under
the terms of that contract.

Although additional causes of action were brought against PSI
TECH in the interest of covering more legal technicalities, the
Judge ruled that any damages to be derived from those additional
causes of action would be duplicative to those awarded for
breach of contract, so she simply awarded damages on the breach
of contract action.

It is the intent of Mr. DeLigter and Lightworks that Mr. Dames
continue to be successful with the tapes.

Now that an independent third party has rendered a decision on
how the parties are to behave under the laws of the United
States of America, the Plaintiffs look forward to an honorable
and professional satisfaction of the judgement.

Lightworks Audio & Video, Inc. offers hundreds of compelling
tools for expanding human consciousness on their website at
www.lightworksAV.com.

For further information, please contact Mr. DeLigter c/o
Lightworks at 310-398-4949.








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   Jan > Jan 18

                Taiwan MND Confirms Incoming UFOs From China

From: Diane Lovett <rambld@gateway.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:41:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:59:18 -0500
Subject: Taiwan MND Confirms Incoming UFOs From China


I just found this on 'MyCnn'. I couldn't find a trace of it on
the main CNN site though. Because it pops up in separate window
with no URL of it's own, I just pasted the text here.

Diane Lovett

------------------

Taipei, Jan. 18 (CNA) The Ministry of National Defense (MND) on
Tuesday confirmed the report that 10 unidentified flying objects
were spotted heading across the Taiwan Strait from mainland
China toward northern Taiwan and later disappeared at an
altitude of 14,000 feet to 25,000 feet on Jan. 16.

Judging by the direction of the wind and airflow, the MND
suggested the UFOs were sent from mainland China and said the
move has seriously threatened both Taiwan and international
aviation security.

The MND, making the statements during a regular press
conference, added that the ministry immediately informed the
Civil Aeronautics Administration and instructed them to pay
close attention to this situation and urged the mainland to
refrain from this kind of dangerous behavior.

Following the MND's warning, the Strait Exchange Foundation
(SEF), Taiwan's quasi-official organization dealing with
cross-strait affairs, sent a letter to its mainland counterpart,
the Association for Relations Across the Taiwan Strait (ARATS),
urging the relevant authorities to investigate the issue.

In the meantime, the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA)
plans to issue a warning on Tuesday afternoon to pilots flying
the Taiwan-Kinmen route as it judges that the unidentified
flying objects may cause disturbances to aircraft flying that
route.

Currently, no unusual objects have been detected by the CAA's
radar screens, but the warning from the MND illustrates that the
UFOs pose a potential danger on the Taiwan-Kinmen route, so the
CAA has decided it will issue the warning.

Several UFOs were again spotted on Jan. 17, according to the
MND.








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   Jan > Jan 18

                           Triangular UFO Sighting

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:44:02 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:32:11 -0500
Subject: Triangular UFO Sighting


Dear Errol and List Members:

I would like to share this email I received, in the hopes that
one of you can forward it to Officer Craig Stevens.  This
triangular UFO is nothing new, it seems.

Joe Trainor

-----

From: Dave Bobadilla <dkent@jps.net>
To: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Subject: Triangular UFO sighting
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:04:33 -0800


Dear Mr. Trainer:

I read the report on the triangular UFO sighting on the 5th of
this month, by the police officer and others in the area of Illinois
Missouri. I saw what seems to be the same thing in the summer of
1981, in southern California during the day time, I'm a
machinist for a aerospace firm here. I also thought I was going
crazy for a while after I saw the object,

No technology I know of, could make something so huge with
antigravity like movements,

If at all possible I must communicate with the officer who
witnessed this vehicle, no one will believe me that I witnessed
this thing, so vividly real, as my own hand in front of my face.

I must compare notes with somebody that has seen this, or go
completely cuckoo.

Below I will include my email address and name please, please,
please forward this information to that officer, Craig Stevens
and others, that have seen this (Triangular silent, antigravity
like craft) I will also send my personal eye witness account of
my sighting.

Please, I can rest better if I talk to somebody else about this,
as I have recently discovered through the web I am not alone,
and these sightings are being seen all over world in the past 20
years. Some have suggested to me Government defense holograms -
_not_ what I saw.


David Bobadillo
January 18,1999
www.dkent@jsp.net



summer of 1981 the city of HUNTINGTON BEACH CA I saw a
triangular shaped object, moving to and fro throughout the sky
at about 6:00 pm, about an hour before sunset, it appeared to be
about a quarter mile a cross and appeared to move at several
times, that of supersonic speed, it had ever color possible
pulsating within the triage, then every so often all the lights
would turn off and the triangle appeared to have a gray metallic
appearance, which it seemed to slightly bulge slightly in the
center. Iwas not drinking or any similarity of, I was so
astonished I ran upstairs to my apartment almost tripping and
falling several times, almost killing my self, my adrenaline was
pumping so hard, felt almost like having heart attack. I
immediately called police dept. hopping their were other reports
of this kind,unfornutly not, and told me it was some kind of
experimental air craft.  bull!~for years I lived with this
thinking I was almost going mad, no one would take me seriously.
Then on tv in about 1997 their was a special on Ufo's freshly
released tape footage from Russia, One of their taped sightings
taken above their nuclear power plant I think was Chernobyl, was
exactly the exact same triangle shaped craft with the same
colors as I saw. again my heart starting pumping fast. it was
not until recently that I hooked up on the Internet, and
discovered Im not alone in the world with this triangle craft.
another thing the movement was not unlike the way your cursor
moves around on your computer screen with the use of the mouse,
also I got the feeling this object was two dimensional instead
of three dimensional.  please I would like to hear from other
people out their, and at least come up with some sort of
theory's, with the little I do know about physics, I know It's
not man made, it's not aerodynamically shaped, and could not
move at the speed I witnessed, without creating a sonic boom.
please what is this






   DAVID BOBADILLO
   PLEASE EMAIL ME AT     dkents@ps.net
   thank you very much, in southern California


Am finding out their have many such just like mine from all over
the world, in the past twenty, I am very sure of what I saw in
1981, I feel a little better now from the research ive done in
the past week

Four theories I have are 1.  interdimensional travel probes.   2.
inersterler travelers. 3.  our own military's antigravity craft
and  4.  holograms possibly produced by satellites by our own
military,   which is what I give the most weight to so far.
I've included a few reports I've recently discovered on the
Internet.

SIGNED DAVID BOBADILLO

     P.S. WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HEAR
     BACK FROM YOU www.dkent@jps.net










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   Jan > Jan 19

                         Comet Debris Rains on Spain

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 05:55:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 05:55:03 -0500
Subject: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

http://www.space.com/science/astronomy/comet_debris_000118_wg.html

Comet Debris Rains on Spain

posted: 08:54 am EST

18 January 2000

MADRID, Jan 17 (Reuters) - At least ten melon-sized iceballs
that have slammed into Spain in the last week are probably
debris from comets, not human excrement as first suspected, a
Spanish scientist said on Monday.

Enrique Martinez, head of a team at the Higher Council of
Scientific Investigation studying the phenomenon, said it was
first thought that the iceballs were human excrement ejected
from high-flying aircraft.

"But they lack the typical coloring and texture we find in those
cases," he said.

A man in southern Spain escaped injury last week when an iceball
20 cms (eight inches) across weighing nine pounds smashed into
his car.

A further nine iceballs have since been reported around Spain
over the last week.








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   Jan > Jan 19

                  Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:04:33 -0500
Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


Hi everyone.

Below is an article forwarded to me by a colleague which I think
will be of particular interest to UFO UpDates subscribers.

Nick Balaskas


-----

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:37:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael DeRobertis <mmdr@lhotse.yorku.ca>

Vince Stricherz
(206) 543-2580
vinces@u.washington.edu

Jan. 18, 2000

WE ARE NOT ALONE - OR ARE WE?

The annals of science fiction are filled with advanced
extraterrestrial creatures like Klingons and Wookies, Vogons and
Romulans, all carrying on in a human sort of way. And while
screenwriters and novelists weave stories around these
characters, some people scour the heavens for signs that such
highly evolved beings really are out there.

But a new book by two University of Washington scientists
contends that, contrary to popular thought, we just might be
alone and Earth might be unique, if not in the universe at least
in this celestial neighborhood.

In "Rare Earth," published this month by Copernicus Books/Springer,
paleontologist Peter Ward and astronomer Donald Brownlee examine
the remarkable confluence of conditions and events that
deposited life-forming chemicals on Earth, allowed simple life
to gain a foothold and then protected the planet sufficiently
and created just the right environmental factors for advanced
life to slowly evolve.

"It seems like something a lot of people don't want to hear, yet
nearly everyone who works in these areas has remarked at one
time or another how unusual the Earth is," said Brownlee, an
expert on comets, the space bodies that might have delivered the
first organic chemicals and life-sustaining water to Earth.

In fact, he and Ward, whose extensive research on the fossil
record has provided key insights into prehistoric mass
extinctions, frequently discuss the Earth's unusual character
with students in their astronomy and geological sciences
classes.

The scientists don't argue that life is rare. In fact, recent
evidence showing simple microbial life can survive extreme
conditions on Earth is an indicator that such life also might be
widespread in the galaxy and the universe.

"But you need to have a vast amount of time to let evolution
ramp up to animals, and we think there are only a small number
of planets where that could happen," said Ward.

The key, he said, is having near equilibrium in such things as
temperature and water content over enormous time spans.

Microbes have shown they can live in some of the harshest Earth
environments imaginable, while advanced plant and animal life
requires a delicate balance of conditions.

"For 90 percent of the age of this planet, life was slime at the
bottom of the ocean," Brownlee said. But that life was given a
one-in-a-million opportunity to gradually evolve to the
complexity it enjoys today.

"The underlying theme of the book is that the Earth is a very
charmed planet," he said. "We know of no other body that is even
remotely like Earth."

Factors that made advanced life possible include the Earth's
having:

* The proper distance from the sun to allow development of
   habitat for complex life and ensure that water remains liquid,
   not vapor or ice.

* The proper mass to retain atmosphere and ocean.

* Plate tectonics, which act as a sort of atmospheric thermostat,
   build land masses and enhance biotic diversity.

* A neighbor the size of Jupiter, not too close and not too far
   away, that can use its gravity to protect the planet from too
   many life-extinguishing collisions with comets and asteroids.

* A stable orbit unperturbed by giant planets.

* A large moon at the right distance to stabilize tilt, thus
   ensuring seasonal climate fluctuations that are not too severe.

* Enough carbon to support development of life but not so much to
   allow for runaway greenhouse conditions.

In addition, Brownlee and Ward contend, the solar system's
position in the Milky Way galaxy also is key to life development
on Earth. At the edge of the galaxy, many stars are too
metal-poor for planet formation, while the center of the galaxy
has extreme energy processes that would hinder complex life.

The "charmed" conditions on Earth won't always be present.
Someday, some way, evolution on Earth will end. That could be
when the sun gets so hot that life can no longer survive, when
ultimately the ocean boils and surface rocks melt.

"There will be a time when there will be no record of life ever
having existed on Earth," Brownlee said.

He and Ward acknowledge that their assumptions about how uncommon
advanced life might be in the universe are based on observed
conditions that allowed evolution on Earth. But this is the only
place in which advanced life is known to have occurred, and it is
one of only a handful of places in the solar system where even
microbial life is suspected, making this planet the ultimate
laboratory on advanced life.

A key condition for life on Earth is the presence of carbon,
because of its unique properties.

"Probably all life is based on carbon," Brownlee said. While he
concedes the possibility that life has evolved elsewhere based
on an element such as silicon, he remains skeptical of that
theory.

"Many things are possible. You can never imagine everything the
universe can do. But we know it didn't happen here," Brownlee
said. "If things have to obey physical and chemical laws, then
there really aren't a lot of options in nature."










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                         Comet Debris Rains on Spain

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:05:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:05:43 -0500
Subject: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

http://www.space.com/science/astronomy/comet_debris_000118_wg.html

Comet Debris Rains on Spain

posted: 08:54 am EST

18 January 2000

MADRID, Jan 17 (Reuters) - At least ten melon-sized iceballs
that have slammed into Spain in the last week are probably
debris from comets, not human excrement as first suspected, a
Spanish scientist said on Monday.

Enrique Martinez, head of a team at the Higher Council of
Scientific Investigation studying the phenomenon, said it was
first thought that the iceballs were human excrement ejected
from high-flying aircraft.

"But they lack the typical coloring and texture we find in those
cases," he said.

A man in southern Spain escaped injury last week when an iceball
20 cms (eight inches) across weighing nine pounds smashed into
his car.

A further nine iceballs have since been reported around Spain
over the last week.








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:37:18 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:22:14 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:45:45 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:26:20 -0500 (EST)
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:13:22 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

<snip>

 >I think the AA footage is a fantastic find and important
 >historical document.

Some people thought the Hitler diarys and the Pittdown man were
the most important, fantastic finds ever made. Others still
believe the earth is flat.

 From a personal point of view I would be interested in the
analysis of ONE single frame of the film from Independent
experts such as Kodak and or others.

I suspect I will be a long time waiting for that day. :) Bottom
line is 5 years from now the film will still not quite be proven
true, and Ray still won't have provided any original film for
examination by Kodak or a film lab.

Cheers, Robert









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              Meteor Explodes In Air Near Alaska, Yukon Border

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:40:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 07:40:42 -0500
Subject: Meteor Explodes In Air Near Alaska, Yukon Border




Source: ABC News

http://abcnews.com/wire/World/reuters20000118_4202.html

WIRE:01/18/2000 20:37:00 ET


Meteor Explodes In Air Near Alaska, Yukon Border

WHITEHORSE, Yukon, Jan 18 (Reuters) - A meteor exploded over
the mountains of southern Yukon on Tuesday, shaking houses and
providing residents of the remote region with a dramatic light
show, the Geologic Survey of Canada said.

The meteor is believed to have exploded in the atmosphere
midday between Carcross, Yukon and Skagway, Alaska, at about 9
a.m. (1700 GMT), according to the agency, which received witness
reports and sonic data on the event.

"They described it as sheet lightning-like and they turned
around and saw this large green object going through the sky,"
said Garry Rogers of the Pacific Geosciences Centre in Sidney,
British Columbia.

Witnesses in Carcross said the explosion rattled windows and
shook snow from roofs in the small village about 120 miles (190
km) north of Juneau, Alaska, according to Rogers.

No injuries or damage were reported, and it was not  immediately
known how large the meteor was or at what altitude  it exploded.

The explosion was detected by at least three of the agency's
seismic monitoring stations in the region, but the sonic waves
indicated the meteor exploded in the air rather than in an
impact with the ground, the geologists said.

END
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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                     NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:43:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:43:43 -0500
Subject: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting

http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/nids.htm

NIDS Ongoing Investigation Into
Major Illinois Police UFO Sighting

 From Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>

Complete Ongoing NIDS Investigation At:

http://www.accessnv.com/nids

1-18-2000


The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) 24-hour hot
line (702-798-1700) received a report at 3:46 am Pacific time on
1/5/2000 from a police officer at Milstadt, Illinois. The
officer reported an unidentified flying object seen by a
business owner and several police officers at Lebanon,
Millstadt, Shiloh and Dupo, Illinois. The report to NIDS came
approximately two hours after the sighting.

After multiple telephone calls to the locale, NIDS dispatched
two investigators to the location to conduct face-to-face
interviews with eyewitnesses. The following can be summarized
from the interview transcripts:

The civilian, who had driven to his miniature golf course in
Highland at 4:01 AM, reported an object like "a floating house
with very bright internal lights flying at a low altitude from
northeast and moving southwest. The object was two to three
stories high and was the length of a football field. The
eyewitness immediately drove to the Highland PD and reported the
sighting. The police dispatcher from Highland contacted The
Central Communications dispatcher from St. Clair County, who in
turn requested the Lebanon Police Department to look out for the
object.

At approximately 4:10 am the police officer from Lebanon,
responding to the dispatch from Highland, reported a low flying
"massive elongated triangle emitting intense white light. The
object came to within 1000 feet of the witness and then appeared
to rotate slowly and fly extremely quickly and suddenly across
the sky toward Shiloh, Illinois. The maneuver was executed with
no noise. The officer had turned off his vehicle engine, his
light bar and his main police radio so that he could listen for
noise.

A police officer from Shiloh reported a large black arrowhead
shaped craft that was moving slowly. The object then gathered
speed and flew about four to five miles across the sky at a very
high rate of speed. According to the officer, who was watching
from his vehicle with the windows rolled down and the engine
shut off, this maneuver was executed silently. Since there was
little, if any wind at the time, this maneuver is judged to be
inconsistent with the behavior of a blimp.

A Millstadt police officer described the object flying very
slowly between 500 and 1000 feet altitude. It was very large. It
was shaped like a fat arrowhead. The rear of the object was
concave and looked to contain dim, white, flashing strobes.

According to the testimony from the police officers, the flight
path of the object was in a southwesterly direction from
Highland, over Lebanon, Shiloh, Millstadt and then turning
northwest to Dupo. The flight path would have taken the object
almost directly over Scott Air-Force base. According to all
inquiries by NIDS, including interviews with two separate AFOSI
officers on the base, nothing was in the air from Scott Air
Force base that night between 4:00 and 5:00 am. All individuals
disavowed knowledge of any flying objects in the region around
Scott AFB.

Two separate inquiries from NIDS to the Boeing St. Louis
facility showed that Boeing does not conduct testing of military
aircraft at their facility. According to Boeing, the facility
conducts acceptance testing of newly manufactured (from the
assembly line) aircraft during the day at the local commercial
airport. A Boeing spokesperson confirmed that there were no
Boeing St. Louis derived aircraft flying around St. Louis and
surrounding areas during the early morning (midnight to sunrise)
dark hours of Jan 5, 2000.

This report will contain short summaries of each eyewitness
testimony followed by transcripts. The appendix will contain
original drawings by three police officers as well as copies of
the original reports and transcripts from the dispatch
communications.

Because of the intense media publicity surrounding the case both
locally and nationally, NIDS has received additional potential
eyewitness leads to investigate. The investigation of the case
is ongoing and will be updated on the NIDS web site

http://www.accessnv.com/nids

in the next few days when more data is available.








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                       Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

From: Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 09:15:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >To: <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;>
 >Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 5:05 AM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Comet Debris Rains on Spain


 >Source: space.com

 >http://www.space.com/science/astronomy/comet_debris_000118_wg.html

 >Comet Debris Rains on Spain

 >posted: 08:54 am EST

 > 18 January 2000

More than 40 ice ball have 'slammed' into Spain since Jan 8.
Most of them are believed part of jokes or prank. Others are
believed to be parts of comets.

But strangely, it was only reported in Spain.

If you know this phenomenon happened here in the US, please, let
me know.

Very truly yours,

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ufomiami/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1341/index.html









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                           Triangular UFO Sighting

From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:44:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:52:31 -0500
Subject: Triangular UFO Sighting


To all interested...

Though there were a few sightings of "Triangular-shaped UFOs"
between 1941 - 1960 the sighting from Tyneside, UK in September
1960 of a "Triangular-shaped craft with three white apex lights
and a red light underneath" is the earliest which is similar in
description to the present day's FT.  This was seen in three
different locations on the evening of September 8th all within a
10 mile radius, between 20:00 and 21:15 hrs.

Our database contains three FT sighting reports from CA, USA in
the summer of 1981.

Victor J. Kean
Project FT









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                    Re: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:23:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:49:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?


 >Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 21:54:34 +0000
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Wit To Wisdom, Or Hype To Death?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Now on one hand we have Richard Hoagland and pals. Not content
 >with arguing semantics about the face, he conjures up
 >mathematical bits and pieces to further confirm that it must be
 >a _made_ product (nearly put alien made as oppose to man made
 >there but caught myself in time). Whether this is true or not,
 >(the math stuff) it is I believe, still open to question, or is
 >that belief? But, and its a big but, does it _prove_ anything?
 >I.E. we have the octagonal stones/rocks of the "Giants causeway"
 >do we not, and that aint artificial.

If you look closely at Hoagland's diagrams, you'll notice that
he occasionally "cheats," by drawing lines and angles that do
not quite line up with the aspects of the features they are
supposed to align with.

It's not blatant--just subtle little adjustments here and
there--but it's enough to create the illusion of a symmtery
where there really isn't one.

Brian








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:12 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:24:34 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >To: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:37:18 -0500 (EST)
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:22:14 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >From a personal point of view I would be interested in the
 >analysis of ONE single frame of the film from Independent
 >experts such as Kodak and or others.

Bob Shell is an independent expert and he says that what he saw
was very old film.  He was convinced that the film he saw was
the film Ray bought for Volker.  Volker is convinced that what
he bought was old film shot by the cameraman.  Kodak did verify
the film was 1927, 1947, or 1967.  They saw film with an image
and the film leader.

Why is it so important that the film be proven for you.  Why not
just keep an open mind until there is proof that it is a hoax?
Here's the point that needs to be made over and over again until
folks understand: There is not one bit of evidence that this is a
fake.

There is considerable circumstancial evidence that the AA is a
real event. Dennis Murphy's article alone would convince most
folks (if they read it with an open mind) that the debris, at
least, should be studied carefully

 >Bottom line is 5 years from now the film will still not quite
 >be proven true, and Ray still won't have provided any original
 >film for examination by Kodak or a film lab.

I believe that Ray isn't free to do as he pleases in regard to
the raw film.  Volker is not being cooperative.  We certainly
don't have all the answers and yes it might be another five
years (or longer) before we know "for sure".  But that doesn't
mean we should stop our investigations or close our minds.








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                          Ovni Over Acapulco Mexico

From: Guillermo Alarcon <ufoalarcon@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:39:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:58:06 -0500
Subject: Ovni Over Acapulco Mexico


Greetings,

My dear Respected UFOlogysts,


I am forwarding a copy to all of you my contacts all over the
Internet.

This is the original report sent to the UFOlogia's E-mail

You can contact me at ufoalarcon@msn.com for more info about
this new UFO sighting


-----

UFO OVER ACAPULCO MEXICO


Updated at 7:43 AM Eastern time wednesday January 19 of 2000

Citizens from Acapulco confirm that an OVNI flew the city of
Acapulco Mexico this January 18, many habitants of the touristic
Port of Acapulco, in the mexican pacific are saying that they
saw a UFO Tuesday 17, according to the testimonies of the
neighborhoods the object 's characteristics were a kind of
Bright and Ovalated and it was seen for about 7 minutes flying
over the city with highly movements and strange movements..

The OVNI made circles in the sky leaving a flash of green and
yellow light behind his trail..

According to the Airport they did not see anything out of the
ordinary but they didn't have any flights over that Area..

This is a big story..


Please email me if you would like to know more about this new
UFO sighting

Guillermo Alarcon
UFO Investigations
http://www.mp3.com/djy2k









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                  Strange Encounter With An Unknown Vehicle

From: Michael C Harman <mharman@americredit.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:14:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:06:10 -0500
Subject: Strange Encounter With An Unknown Vehicle


[Non-subscriber Post - ebk]

Please post this to the UFO Updates List.


I am posting this dramatic encounter I had in Fort Worth Texas
to this list in hopes that I will find someone who has had a
similar sighting or someone who has information about any
remotely similar sightings.  And if you think you know what we
saw that night then please respond. Remember we made our
observation of this object from pretty close in. I believe the
object was probably not more that 200 to 800 feet away from our
observation point and directly above the Trinity River in Fort
Worth. Also please notice that the object did not appear to make
any sound while darting back and forth, and up and down. these
movements were so fast it seemed to simply appear here then
there, shot up 1000ft while flashing red green white and
sometimes blue lights. at each new place it positioned itself
to. This object was definately under some sort of intelligent
control, and knew we were interested it it.

Send your response to the list or you may send me a private
email at Mike_Harman@rocketmail.com this email will roll over to
Yahoo Mail even though Rocketmail is no more.

Please read on...

However I veryto see if anyone out there has seen a lighting
effect similar to what my son and I saw that night.  Please read
the account and all notes. IF you have any information about a
similar event, please respond. All responses are welcome and I
will attempt to answer each and every one of them.

Mike Harman

A STRANGE ENCOUNTER WITH AN UNKNOWN VEHICLE (LOOKING FOR
ANSWERS)

PERSONAL SIGHTING REPORT

FORT WORTH TEXAS

March 28, 1998 at 11:00PM

ORIGINAL REPORT TYPED THE NIGHT OF MARCH 28, 1998

My son and I had just left work and were driving on highway 287
South approaching I-30 just out of downtown Fort Worth Texas. We
noticed an unusual object looking west from the city over the
Trinity River area just east of downtown Fort Worth Texas. At
first we thought it was just an airplane, but then we noticed
that the object had several very intense rapidly strobing green,
red and white lights, all three strobing at the same time in a
sort of burst of light energy.

The effect was similar to that of a police cars lights as seen
from a distance at night, except not quite the same. In the case
of the police cars lights, they are in a constant state of
flashing, and the lights rotating cause the flashing effect.

In the case of the UFO, these lights would stop strobing, with
now visible lighting for several seconds possibly eight to ten
seconds, then suddenly burst with this rapid fire, Random, very
intense beautifully colored burst of strobing or rapidly
flashing lights.

Each burst of energy lasted only about two seconds then the
object went back to an all-dark state. We noticed that there
were no other lights visible on the object during the strobing
effect.

Then suddenly the light turned to an all green light, then all
white this lasted only about a second, then back to the strobing
effect again.

We also noticed that the object appeared to be darting back and
forth too rapidly for any known aircraft; sometimes it just
appeared to jump from side to side causing the lights to strobe
here then suddenly a few hundred feet in another direction.

It also darted off moving about a half mile in one direction
then suddenly dart straight up approximately 1000 feet then back
in the opposite direction. Then it changed course moving at an
incredible speed in an easterly direction passing our vehicle.

Then it suddenly turned and went in the opposite direction from
us. During this maneuver I observed a large florescent green
colored light or glowing area on what I believed was the rear of
this craft.

It was almost as if the object was putting on a show for us; as
if it knew we were there watching it, totally amazed at what we
were seeing. The object followed our vehicle for about five
minutes as we drove East on I-30 when we finally lost site of it
when it turned and went away from us.

I would like to add that I have never seen an aircraft with this
type of lighting and flight characteristics. It did not have any
of the normal legal aircraft lighting.

I am a retired Air Force member and have seen many aircraft in
my time and can identify most of the normal aircraft, this
object did not fit any of their descriptions.

A little further up I-30, probably not more than a mile of so,
we noticed a round silver-blue object pacing our van. The object
would light up similar to a blue-white or silver florescent
light bulb for about two seconds then it would turn this light
off for what seemed to be one or two seconds pulsating in this
manor two seconds of light, two seconds of totally dark with
absolutely no lighting of any sort visible when the light went
out. It continued this for a few miles, exactly pacing our
vehicle before vanishing completely.

The object appeared to be possibly a half-mile away from us. I
would estimate the size of this sphere to be roughly twice to
three time the size of an automobile or about 30 feet wide.

Needless to say this left us with an eerie feeling, for the rest
of the night. As soon as I arrived at home I immediately wrote
down every detail that I could remember to make sure I didn't
forget any of the details of this strange encounter.


NOTES ON THE OBSERVATION MADE ABOUT TWO WEEKS LATER

When we were viewing this object from the highway just outside
the downtown Fort Worth city limits, it appeared, or at least
the lighted area was about the size of a basketball held at
three times my arm length and was viewed at an angle of 45
degrees from the horizon.

I had to stick my head clear out of the window of my van and
look up to see this thing.

My son had half his body stuck out the left front window in
order to view it from that side of the van.

We were moving at no more that five miles per hour at the time
of the sighting and there was very little noise coming from my
van as the engine was at an idle, and I was traveling at no more
that 5 miles per hour.

During the sighting I heard absolutely no sound of any kind
coming from this object, and there were no other aircraft or
cars in the area at the same time.

When the strobing effect stopped we were unable to see anything
in the sky, the object had become completely invisible therefore
we were unable to determine its shape.

Also when I viewed this object it gave me a very strange
sensation almost like adrenaline rushing through my system or
possibly I was feeling the effects of some sort of magnetic or
electrical energy similar to static electricity, or simply
excited about what I was a witness to.

I felt that the object was very close to us almost felt I could
reach out and touch it.


UPDATE #1 ABOUT A WEEK LATER

I work in a Fort Worth high-rise building and have an excellent
view of the downtown area and Trinity River. I noticed that the
river runs parallel to the highway all the way up to interstate
30 then turns northward and follows I-30 for a couple of miles.

What is interesting about this discovery is that it appears that
the UFO followed the river and was situated beside us even as we
made the exit ramp to I-30. It seemed to be always within 200
feet from us until it turned away. It also was not more that
200-400 feet off the ground during this sighting.


UPDATE #2 A FEW MONTHS LATER

I have since learned that another person on the other side of
the river has, also observed the above sighting observed by my
son and myself. He observed the object over the Trinity River at
the same time as we had seen it from Highway 287 that evening. I
have been in e-mail contact with this person about this sighting
however the teenaged son does not want to talk about this
incident, ad he fears ridicule from his friends.

UPDATE #3 Jan. 17, 2000 REFLECTING ON THE ENCOUNTER

The area where we made the sighting had some normal street light
poles in the area and there was quite a bit of ambient light
coming from the downtown area of Fort Worth city as it is only
about a mile away.

The only time I actually saw any shape, letting us know
something was truly there was when it turned away from us
momentarily exposing the rear side of the object, showing a
florescent very green looking perfectly round and brightly lit
area that reminded me of some the movie special effects used for
space ships.

I also had a sensation or feeling that there was a honeycomb
design within the green-lighted area.

The size of the green circle was about the size of or a bit
smaller than a basketball with the length of three arms held
straight out or a fist with an arm held straight out, and
pointed up about 40 to 45 degrees.

When the lights strobed they were confined to an area a bit
larger than a fist as stated above and in a circular bunch of
lights. Also when the lights turned to all white and all green
it appeared to be the same lights except they were steady white
and green still the very vivid deep color of green and red as in
emerald red and ruby green, for about a second.

I apologies I really didn't take notice of the exact shape or
position of these lights, I think I was simply too awed by the
event, I mean my jaw must have been dragging on the ground right
about then. I have become interested in the "Edwards Encounter"
of 1965 (Sam Sherman) as there are some similarities in the
colors of the lights.

I do know that this was not a blimp or helicopter as both make
quite a bit of noise at that range, and we heard no sound at all
except my van which was at an idle and is very quiet running.
The object darted straight up possibly 1000 feet almost
instantaneously and did it without a sound. Blimps and
helicopters are unable to maneuver that quickly.

It was not a fireball due to the length of time observed and
fireballs do not hover absolutely still and silently.

It was not an experimental craft as they would not be operating
a craft with advanced technology in such a congested populated
area, low over a river, and they would not be observing and
putting on a show like they did for us. It would be very
difficult to explain why an experimental craft crashed in the
vicinity or a residential area like downtown Fort Worth.

Michael Harman USAF (Ret.) Photographer.

Visit my web site where I have more of my sightings along with
other Texas residents reports and an historical database of many
Texas sightings.

MIKE HARMAN UFO-PI

UFO-PI PRIVATE UFO INVESTIGATIONS

FORT WORTH ARLINGTON DALLAS TEXAS

http://ufo-pi.homepage.com/index.html

EMAIL: Mike_Harman@rocketmail.com








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                   Re: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:52:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:10:56 -0500
Subject: Re: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting


 >Source: SIGHTINGS

 >http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/nids.htm

 >NIDS Ongoing Investigation Into
 >Major Illinois Police UFO Sighting

 > From Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>

 >Complete Ongoing NIDS Investigation At:

 >http://www.accessnv.com/nids

 >1-18-2000


 >The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) 24-hour hot
 >line (702-798-1700) received a report at 3:46 am Pacific time on
 >1/5/2000 from a police officer at Milstadt, Illinois. The
 >officer reported an unidentified flying object seen by a
 >business owner and several police officers at Lebanon,
 >Millstadt, Shiloh and Dupo, Illinois. The report to NIDS came
 >approximately two hours after the sighting.

I would like to congratulate Colm Kellaher and the NIDS
investigating team on their quick response and excellent work in
interviewing witness on the scene. I also congratulate them on
publshing their results to date on their web site, where you can
find the "raw" interview data.

By reading the interview of the first witness (as opposed to the
summary of the interview) I learned that he had seen an object
with many red lights and other lights. This caused me to recall
a strange case I investigated 18 years ago... a December 1981
sighting near Coventry, Connecticut. which inolved two
independent groups of witnesses.

One witness took a series of pictures of what appeared to be
three objects traveling in a roughly triangular formation.

The photos show wavy or jagged lines of light and sometimes dots
of light in a wavy line.

The continuous lines of light correspond to steady lights which
were moving during the time the shutter was open. The dots of
light generally indicate moving lights which flash briefly as
they move.

One particular image from these photos stands out: it shows a
roughly triangular or Christmas Tree shaped collection of 32 red
and white dots of light (9 red, 9 white and the rest being
dimmer reddish or orange).

It was this image which came into my mind as I read the
description given by the first witness.

I might also point out that this sighting began with the
observation of three pairs of white lights observed as the
objects approached the witnesses. That is, each object
apparently had two side-by-side white lights at the front.

As the objects went away from the witnesses they could see
multiple colored lights. Calculation based on estimates of
altitude and distance indicate that the objectw were about a
mile from the nearest witnesses and were traveling slowly (100
mph or less). The only noise detected was a slight hum.








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                                Oberg On FTs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:55:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:55:43 -0500
Subject: Oberg On FTs




Source: space.com

http://www.space.com/spaceimagined/area51/triangle_ufo_noss_000114.html

What Are the Flying Triangles?

By James Oberg

special to space.com

posted: 05:15 pm EST

14 January 2000

Letter writer Nick Spall described what he saw from Cornwall at
about 10 PM on August 10, 1999. The triangular-shaped formation
moved from north to south passed the star Altair.

"With the naked eye the formation appeared as one object," Spall
wrote. However, "through binoculars (7x50) the group was
resolved into three steady pinpoints travelling together in
formation."

A second letter from A.R. Thompson in Surrey echoed the first
account.

"On 4 September 1999 I was sitting in my garden enjoying the
cool of late evening," he wrote, "when I noticed three
satellites apparently moving in a triangular 'formation' ... I
have never witnessed satellites moving in the same direction and
maintaining the same position relative to one another."

He described the lights as about stellar magnitude 4, dim but
easily seen in a dark, clear sky. Thompson reported he first
noticed them at about 21:59 as they moved downwards into the
constellation of Pegasus.

"The 'triangle' was about 2 degrees by 3 degrees isosceles. They
took between one and two minutes to pass through Pegasus, before
fading."

Triangles or triplets?

The two Englishmen hadn't been alone in being perplexed by
"flying triangles" in the sky, but when the unearthly answer was
eventually found, it promised to also account for many other
such reports.

The November/December 1999 issue of Skyviews, edited by Canadian
amateur astronomy guru Terence Dickinson, contained this amazing
account: "On three consecutive nights during the Starfest star
party in August 1996, a formation of 3 unblinking starlike
objects in a flattened triangular configuration was seen
cruising across the star fields by dozens of observers. Veteran
stargazers at the meeting had never seen anything like it."

Consultations with amateur satellite-watchers soon identified
the sighting as another "NOSS triplet" formation. Computer
predictions based on known orbits showed the man-made space
objects had indeed been passing overhead at the time of the
sightings.

But what kind of explanation was that, really? First of all,
what on earth -- or off earth -- is "NOSS"?

Three watching eyes

This space project is so secret that even its official name
remains a topic of debate, so observers dubbed it the "Naval
Ocean Surveillance System," or NOSS.

The US currently operates three sets of spy satellites, launched
consecutively in 1990, 1991 and 1996. These satellites orbit
pole-to-pole in groups of three at an altitude of 1,100
kilometers, monitoring the position, speed and direction of all
military ships at sea by detecting radio and radar signals and
then triangulating the point of origin..

The components of the trio orbit separately under Newton's Laws,
and are not technically "in formation." However, their orbits
are planned to crisscross during every circuit, being widest
apart over ocean areas of greatest interest.

The project's Top Secret name is reportedly "Parcae," the Roman
name for the three somber, all-seeing goddesses who observe
human activity and determine justice for individuals. If so,
perhaps they call the satellites "Clotho," "Lachesis" and
"Atropos" at the top secret Parcae "mission control center."

The visible secret

In the case of the two English observers, Ed Cameron, an amateur
astronomer in central Texas, found the precise answer -- NOSS
satellites flying overhead at the time and same direction as in
their reports.

Spall had seen what Cameron calls "the NOSS 2-3 trio," and
Thompson had been observing "the NOSS 2-2 trio."

Amateur spacewatchers have known about these objects for a long
timer. But there was some debate whether the satellites would be
visible to the naked eye.

Professor Brian Hunter of Queen's University in Kingston,
Ontario has photographed NOSS 2-2 passing through the
constellation Lyra in late 1997.

"This pass was seen [with the] naked eye by many in the
Northeastern US," he noted when posting the image to the
internet.

Other eyewitness accounts

Also online, a Kansas amateur astronomer calling himself "Stosh"
reported the trios "can be seen pretty easily, as I can attest."

"Stosh" provided details. "While looking for meteors on the
morning of the '99 Leonids, my 7 year old daughter picked them
out, pointed them to me, and even my old eyes caught them right
away," he reported. "I'd say they were at least a 4 magnitude. "

He added that there were several reports of others seeing them
that morning.

And Daniel Deak of Drummondville, Qubec, chimed in, calling
naked-eye NOSS sightings "not speculation but ... fact."

"I saw the NOSS 2-2 trio with 3 other people last April when the
Moon was in the sky," he noted. "They were at magnitude
3.5, so very easy to see -- in relatively dark skies."








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   Jan > Jan 19

           Why Cydonia Should Be Reimaged Regardless of Anomalies

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:24:34 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:59:38 -0500
Subject: Why Cydonia Should Be Reimaged Regardless of Anomalies


Why Cydonia Should Be Reimaged Regardless of Anomalies

by Mac Tonnies

A common complaint against efforts to reimage Cydonia, site of
the controversial "Face" on Mars and other unusual features, is
that doing so would "waste valuable spacecraft time." In other
words, there are better things that the Mars Global Surveyor can
be doing than taking picture after picture in an attempt to
discern possible artificial structures. Certainly the MGS'
mission is varied, with many goals and sites decided upon by
competent scientists.

The "anti-Cydonia" argument is based, obviously, on the a priori
assumption that the Cydonian enigmas are natural and are of
relatively little scientific interest. It is also grounded on
the notion that taking new pictures of Cydonia and carrying out
comprehensive Mars research are incompatible.

Both of these arguments are faulty. Here are two reasons why:

1. Assuming for argument's sake that there's nothing artificial
to be found at Cydonia, the region is still of enormous
geological importance. In fact, Cydonia was the desired
touch-down site for one of the Viking landers in the 1970s
(Cydonia was voted down not because the region was without
interest, but because its bumpy terrain may have crashed the
lander...much the same situation that arguably befell the Mars
Polar Lander in December).

Any scientist will concede that Cydonia has a lot to offer us in
purely planetary regards, such as the age of the ocean that new
evidence tells us once existed in Mars' northern hemisphere.
Cydonia is also one of regions that may still be "wet,"
increasing the possibilities of finding primitive life, either
extinct or alive.

And the Face, if natural, is still worth a look. "The face is
_probably_ natural, but the sequence of events that led to its
convoluted and distorted topology is strange indeed," commented
geologist Jon Floyd [emphasis mine]. Another geologist,
approached for a skeptical appraisal of the Face, remarked that
although he thought it natural, he wished it was artificial so
he could explain it.

There are many features on the Face alone, small and large, that
seek plausible geological mechanisms if debunkers are to
maintain the false "conclusion" that the Face is old news. The
nostrils, for example, appear much too small to be craters.
Could they be extinct "blowholes," indicating volcanic activity
in the distant past? This would certainly be a major find, if
proved true. (Of course, one must also wrestle with their
presence right above the observed "lips" and "mouth" and
possible "teeth"...)

2. In perhaps the most ironic decision carried out by MSSS, a
second picture of the "City" area was reimaged in 1999. While
this new image failed to include any of the adjacent topology
interested parties have been clamoring for for years (i.e. the
"Fort"), this image did document MSSS' interest in probable
water ice in the vicinity--a discovery made by none other than
the Society for Planetary SETI Research.

If non-polar ice is present on Mars in abundant quantities, this
is an obvious boon for future manned missions, which will be
able to process it for both life support and rocket fuel (as
described by Zubrin in his excellent book 'The Case for Mars').
The implications of water ice in Cydonia are not trivial, and
future high-resolution overpasses of the region would benefit
both SPSR and similar groups as well as "mainstream" Mars
researchers.

  -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a newsletter devoted to the immediate implementation of manned
Mars missions and the democratization of space science,
emphasizing the strange formations found in the Cydonia Mensae
region. This list is not affiliated with any particular Mars
advocacy group, and is intended to be as informal as possible.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

Useful websites (not all viewpoints endorsed by the Cydonian
Imperative):

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Mars: Mysteries of the Red Planet:
http://www.mufor.org/mars.html
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
Cydonia 2000: http://welcome.to/cydonia/
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_








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                         Nevada 'UFO' A Test Missile

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:24:52 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:38:02 -0500
Subject: Nevada 'UFO' A Test Missile


Greetings list -

From: http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2000/jan/19/509733650.htm
l

Some Nevadans thought test missile was a UFO
January 19, 2000 at 12:16:09 PST

RENO, Nev. (AP) - A test missile launch that went bad
disappointed the Pentagon brass but made quite a showing in the
Nevada sky.

Hundreds of curious observers in Reno and the Lake Tahoe saw the
brilliant white light in the western sky shortly after the
missile interceptor was launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base
in California at 6:19 p.m. Tuesday.

The interceptor missed its target and the Air Force is trying to
figure out why.

Local law enforcement offices were flooded with phone calls from
people who thought they'd seen a UFO.

"It was huge," said Pat Swanson, who was driving home from Pine
Middle School in Reno with her 12-year-old son, Tyler.

"At first, we figured it was some kind of aircraft. But then we
thought, 'No, it's too big and too bright for that.' But what
could it be?"

The launch was part of the second test of the experimental
National Missile Defense Program, a missile interceptor system
being tested by the Pentagon.

Matt Walther of Crystal Bay, who was barbecuing on his deck when
he saw the eerie flashes, said he had a hard time believing that
the lights he saw were caused by a missile.

"It illuminated the whole sky," he said. "It seemed too low. It
couldn't have been more than 5,000 feet above us."

Swanson was a bit disappointed to learn the true cause of the
mysterious lights.

"A missile isn't very X-Files worthy," she said.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com











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   Jan > Jan 19

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:36:00 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:42:45 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >From: Ed Gehrman
 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:12 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:24:34 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>To: Robert Gates
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:37:18 -0500 (EST)
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:22:14 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

Previously, Robert had reasonably offered:

 >>From a personal point of view I would be interested in the
 >>analysis of ONE single frame of the film from Independent
 >>experts such as Kodak and or others.

Ed responds:

 >Bob Shell is an independent expert and he says that what he saw
 >was very old film.  He was convinced that the film he saw was
 >the film Ray bought for Volker.  Volker is convinced that what
 >he bought was old film shot by the cameraman.  Kodak did verify
 >the film was 1927, 1947, or 1967.  They saw film with an image
 >and the film leader.

<snip>

 >Here's the point that needs to be made over and over again until
 >folks understand: There is not one bit of evidence that this is a
 >fake.


Hello, Ed....

Here's the point that needs to be made over and over again until
_you_ understand:

I doesn't matter if Ray and Volker were satisfied! Who cares!?

Bob Shell and Kodak have never looked at one single frame of
camera original with the alien on it.

The only film examined with the alien on it is crummy dupe film.

A copy is not the same thing as camera original. In fact, there
is no proof that an original even exists.

The fact that you are so overzealous in your defense of the AA
film is almost embarrassing. I wonder, Ed; considering how
foolish you look trying to prop up the AA film (and Ray)--- will
he ever return the favor? To be specific, will Ray ever come up
with the original film and let it be studied so that you will be
exonerated for trying to defend Ray and AA all this time?

I think you already know the answer to that question.

Wise up.

later,
Roger Evans








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             Re: Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites

From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 01:42:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:53:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites


Regarding:

 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites
 >Date: 18 January 2000 00:19
 >To: UFO UpDates Subscribers

 >Source: Jeff Rense's 'Sightings'

 >http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/sat.htm

 >Some Triangle Sightings Explained As Satellites

 >1-15-2000

 >The December 1999 issue of Spaceflight magazine carried two
 >letters from writers looking for explanations of a curious
 >celestial phenomenon: a triangle of lights crossing the night
 >sky.

 >Summary

 >NOSS/Parcae sightings probably do not account for very many of
 >the flood of "triangle UFO" sightings. The lights are dim, are
 >visible only for an hour or so before and move in straight lines
 >across the sky. Still, the phenomenon underscores the richness
 >of prosaic visual stimuli out there waiting to mislead naive
 >observers, and so would-be researchers should do well to rule
 >NOSS out as an explanation before leaping to conclusions.


Following discussions on the 'UFO Research List', this
explanation was known about over six months ago:

_'Triangular UFO' Mystery Partly Resolved_

One source of 'triangular UFOs' may now have been identified.

During recent discussions on this topic, Chris Gibson, one of
Britain's most knowledgeable writers on military aviation and
top-secret 'black projects', described a high-altitude
observation he made:

"What I saw: three point white lights in a triangular formation.
moving across the sky from South to North. As they crossed the
sky, not quite overhead of my position the dimmed and
disappeared.

Classic delta sighting? Maybe not. These look like they are a
trio of satellites. South to north movement - Polar orbit?

Dimming slightly before disappearing - I've seen sats do that.

A few years ago I was told about Triplets of sats that the US
Navy / NSA or some other secret US non-profit government agency
based in Maryland (That's how the reps from the Mitre
Corporation introduced themselves to my wife) are flying. It was
suggested these triplets were Ferrets doing Elint/Comint with
the triplet being used for triangulation.

Dare I suggest that some of these lights in the sky sightings
(not the ones where an airframe is discernible) are / were such
triplet sats?"


American researcher Joel Carpenter highlighted information which
can be found at the following Web site:

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/surveill/noss_andronov.htm

It reads:

The U.S. Navy's "White Cloud" Spaceborne ELINT System

[Kosmicheskaya Sistema Radiotekhnicheskoy Razvedki VMS SShA "Uayt
Klaud"]
by Major A. Andronov
Zarubezhnoye Voyennoye Obozreniye [Foreign Military Review]
(ISSN 134-921X), No.7, 1993, pp.57-60 translated by Allen
Thomson

The US Navy's spaceborne electronic intelligence (ELINT) system,
White Cloud, is based on SSU (Subsatellite Unit) satellites and
is intended for determining the location of warships of foreign
states and following them by the method of taking bearings on
the ships' onboard radioelectronic equipment from several
positions. Official Pentagon representatives try not to attract
attention to this system, since it is the principal means of
over-the-horizon reconnaissance and target designation for the
US Navy's weapons systems. In comparison with other American
reconnaissance satellites, (for example, "Keyhole" and
"Lacrosse") the SSU satellites are mentioned comparatively
infrequently and have various names: White Cloud, Classic
Wizard, and Parcae.

The last designation more precisely reflects the mission and
operating principle of the system's satellites. The mythological
Parcae were the three daughters of Zeus and the goddess Themida
(the SSU satellites are launched in groups of three and fly
relatively close together.) One of the daughters spins the
thread of fate for each mortal (one satellite has a wide
observation swath, but cannot exactly determine the coordinates
of radio emitters). The second daughter measures out a length of
thread for each person (when two satellites get a fix on the
shipborne emitters, the position is obtained, but with some
ambiguity). The third sister (Atropos - "she from whom one may
not flee") cuts the measured thread of life (the third
satellite, getting a fix on the emitters' signals, enables their
coordinates to be determined precisely and then transmitted to
Navy ships for weapons employment...."


Following this insightful dialogue, I believe it's a reasonably
confident conclusion that some of the more recent 'triangular
UFO' reports can be explained.

The National UFO Reporting Centre (NUFORC) in the US is an
invaluable source of data and I had recently complied a profile
of over 200 'triangular UFO' reports at:

http://www.ufocenter.com/ndxsTriangle.html


Noticeable in looking at the NUFORC data were the number of
sightings which came from amateur astronomers who had seen a
triangle of lights moving at high altitude and which could not
be equated with any known satellite.

Re-examining this data, I believe that some observations are
clearly consistent with 'triplets' of satellites, for example:

Occurred : 7/3/1998 00:30 (Entered as : 07/03/98 24:30)
Reported : 8/4/1998 00:33
Posted : 11/21/1998
Location : Campbell River (Vancouver Island), B.C.,
Shape : Triangle

I was laying out on my sundeck looking at the stars. It was just
after midnight and the sky was mostly clear with some high
cirrus. As I looked up I saw what I thought was a satellite,
except it seemed to be moving almost twice as fast as the
average satellite. It only took a fraction of a second for me to
realize that there was more than one point of light moving
across the sky

The three points of light that made up the main outline of the
triangle were a dull reddish-orange colour and about the same
size as most of the smaller stars that make up the night sky. The
two other lights that could be seen from within the triangle were
a white light but were no larger and only slightly more intense
than the outer lights. These two lights were quite close together
and located on either side of a central axis extending from a
halfway point at the base to the apex and closer to the front of
the craft. I could not see any of the usual running lights
associated with typical aircraft i.e. (port and starboard lights
and the bright pulsing central light). As it moved across the sky
in a southeast to northwest direction it seemed to me that there
was no substance to this shape, as if it were held together by
strands of wire, with the leading light pulling the others in
tow. The colour within the triangle was exactly the colour of the
night sky, and there was no dark silhouette, and no reflected
light.

[...]


Occurred : 11/16/1998 22:11 (Entered as : 11/16/98 22:11)
Reported : 11/17/1998 16:56
Posted : 11/19/1998
Location : Greeley, CO
Shape : Triangle

I was in my backyard hoping to catch a view of the Leonid meteor
shower. From the east I saw a bright light heading toward me to
the west. I noticed that it was 3 lights in the shape of a
triangle, not a meteor, and moving too fast and too high to be a
plane. It passed directly overhead and I lost it as it passed
over the house.


Occurred : 11/17/1998 19:25 (Entered as : 11/17/98 7:25pm)
Reported : 11/24/1998 05:04
Posted : 12/15/1998
Location : Sherwood, AR
Shape : Triangle

I was watching for the leonids meteors before going into work. I
saw three lights (dim, like distant stars) in a triangular
formation. I watched them pass from east of overhead to the
southwest horizon. They did not burn up, leave a trail, or
anything meteors usually do.

I'm a federal employee. I tried to convince myself that these
were simply meteors, but the fact that they moved horizontally
without losing any apparent altitude, combined with the duration
of time I witnessed these lights, as well as the unchanging
distance between all three lights throughout the event, tells me
that these could not have been meteors. The odds of THREE
meteors having the same speed, and direction in a formation that
makes a perfect triangle, at the exact same time... God, that's
got to be one hell of an unlikely event. It was also completely
silent. [End]


Many such recent reports from the NUFORC database come into this
category and it's open to interpretation whether all of the
evidence is consistent.

Making allowances for the frailties of witness observation, it
looks like some 20 per cent of the more recent reports can be
attributed to this explanation.


Equally significant within the NUFORC data sample, and indeed
outwith, are the number of remaining 'triangular UFO' reports
which can not remotely be resolved as 'satellites', or any known
'black project' aircraft.


Source: Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 5
Published: May 1999

[End]



James Easton.
E-Mail: voyager@fortean.co.uk










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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:10:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 02:02:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi everyone.

 >Below is an article forwarded to me by a colleague which I think
 >will be of particular interest to UFO UpDates subscribers.

 >Nick Balaskas

<snip>

 >But a new book by two University of Washington scientists
 >contends that, contrary to popular thought, we just might be
 >alone and Earth might be unique, if not in the universe at least
 >in this celestial neighborhood.

 >In "Rare Earth," published this month by Copernicus Books/Springer,
 >paleontologist Peter Ward and astronomer Donald Brownlee examine
 >the remarkable confluence of conditions and events that
 >deposited life-forming chemicals on Earth, allowed simple life
 >to gain a foothold and then protected the planet sufficiently
 >and created just the right environmental factors for advanced
 >life to slowly evolve.

<snip>

Hmm. Is David "Roswell" Rudiak still around? He didn't much like
it when I was making similar suggestions/arguments in reference
to the Mike Davis article we published in The Anomalist 5. Now
he (Rudiak) can direct his complaints (and counter-arguments, if
any) to real scientists and see how he stacks up against same.

So, David, please direct your e-mail responses to Mssrs. Ward
and Brownlee, not me. Although we'd all like a copy of same,
however embarrassing they might prove to one party or the other.


Dennis
http://www.anomalist.com








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                       Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:13:05 +0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:12:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >To: <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;>
 >Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 6:55 PM
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Comet Debris Rains on Spain


 >Source: space.com

 >http://www.space.com/science/astronomy/comet_debris_000118_wg.html

 >Comet Debris Rains on Spain

 >posted: 08:54 am EST

 >18 January 2000

 >MADRID, Jan 17 (Reuters) - At least ten melon-sized iceballs
 >that have slammed into Spain in the last week are probably
 >debris from comets, not human excrement as first suspected, a
 >Spanish scientist said on Monday.

<snip>

http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/ap01-19-134018.asp?reg=EUROPE

Falling ice enigma in Spain starting to smell fishy

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MADRID, Spain, Jan. 19 - Spain's great ice mystery is beginning
to look like a prank.  Around 30 chunks of ice are said to have
dropped from the sky since Jan. 8, some the size of basketballs,
often in gloriously sunny weather, and just about every Spanish
region has taken a hit.

The precipitation has picked up so much in the past few days
that scientists said Wednesday they had collected enough samples
and would not accept any more.

The Superior Council for Scientific Research urged people who
find suspect frozen matter to double-wrap it in plastic and keep
it in a refrigerator. The council is conducting chemical
analyses and has promised to report initial findings on Friday.

In the meantime, chemists in Valencia did some checking
of their own. They say they don't know what the chunks are,
but they know what they are not.

They are not human waste expelled from airplanes, as
had been speculated, because there is no evidence of
microorganisms that would be present in urine, the University
of Valencia team said.

They found that a sample collected Saturday in the town of
Meliana contained sodium chloride, or table salt, and gypsum,
which is chalk. Both are very earthly, which weakens another
popular argument - that the chunks may come from the tail of a
comet.

But scientists quoted in newspapers say there are several
puzzling things about the chunks. First, a chunk of ice falling
from a plane would smash into many pieces, but the ones found so
far have been intact.

Also, if this were a natural phenomenon, the size of the ice
chunks should vary. But most have been the size of basketballs.

Then there is the exponential increase in recent days - 20
chunks of ice found on Tuesday alone. At least half a dozen were
quickly proven to be practical jokes - including a seven-pound
block with perfectly sharp edges.












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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:10:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:01:22 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:12 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>To: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:37:18 -0500 (EST)
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:22:14 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >Why is it so important that the film be proven for you.  Why not
 >just keep an open mind until there is proof that it is a hoax?
 >Here's the point that needs to be made over and over again until
 >folks understand: There is not one bit of evidence that this is a
 >fake.


Whoa! Let's be careful here. The burden of proof is squarely on
those who claim the film is a real representation of an alien
autopsy--that's standard scientific methodology (as well as
philosophical logic).

As someone once said of scientific empiricism--it's value is
that is stops us from fooling ourselves. Under Ed's approach, I
could claim there are fairies living at the bottom of my garden,
and place the burden of (dis)proof on the unbelievers.

Now, extend Ed's method to every fringe phenomenon and consider
the implications.


Brian








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                  Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Rogere Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:44:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:06:35 -0500
Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >From: Dennis Stacy
 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:10:02 -0600
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 02:02:36 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

 >>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>From: Nick Balaskas
 >>Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto

Previously, Nick had offered:

 >>But a new book by two University of Washington scientists
 >>contends that, contrary to popular thought, we just might be
 >>alone and Earth might be unique, if not in the universe at least
 >>in this celestial neighborhood.

 >>In "Rare Earth," published this month by Copernicus Books/Springer,
 >>paleontologist Peter Ward and astronomer Donald Brownlee examine
 >>the remarkable confluence of conditions and events that
 >>deposited life-forming chemicals on Earth, allowed simple life
 >>to gain a foothold and then protected the planet sufficiently
 >>and created just the right environmental factors for advanced
 >>life to slowly evolve.

Dennis replied:

 >Hmm. Is David "Roswell" Rudiak still around? He didn't much like
 >it when I was making similar suggestions/arguments in reference
 >to the Mike Davis article we published in The Anomalist 5. Now
 >he (Rudiak) can direct his complaints (and counter-arguments, if
 >any) to real scientists and see how he stacks up against same.

 >So, David, please direct your e-mail responses to Mssrs. Ward
 >and Brownlee, not me. Although we'd all like a copy of same,
 >however embarrassing they might prove to one party or the other.

Hi, Dennis.

I'm not a scientist. However, all you really need to be is a
good reader to note that Ward and Brownlee suggest that we
"might" be alone in the universe; not that we definitely are. In
addition, they would have to be the first to admit that their
views are based on how life evolved on this planet, with its
admittedly unique conditions. By necessity, their conclusions
relate ONLY to "life as we know it".

They do not take into account "life as we do not know it."
Certainly, our life chain is dependent on a variety of well
timed and, apparently, fortuitous events and conditions. The
human species is much like a high performance race car.

It is very complex, fragile and requires a great deal of
maintenance to get the best results and win the "human race"
(sorry, I can't resist a bad pun).

Surely, Ward and Brownlee must realize that there might be forms
of life in the universe that are less fragile than humans. As I
mentioned before, cockroaches seem to be damn near
indestructible and microbes have survived entire voyages into
space.

With all due respect to Ward and Brownlee, I think it is
presumptuous to use life on Earth as the measuring stick for the
tolerance of life in the rest of the universe.

Later,

Roger Evans








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                    Satellite Detection Of Alaska Bolide

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:25:15 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:03:18 -0500
Subject: Satellite Detection Of Alaska Bolide


Dear List:

The Department of Defense has released information about the
detection of the Alaska fireball:

-----

Fireball Detection

On 18 January 2000, sensors aboard DOD satellites detected the
impact of a meteoroid at 16:43:43 UTC near Whitehorse in the
Yukon territory, Canada. The object detonated at an altitude of
25 km at 60.25 degrees North

latitude, 134.65 degrees West Longitude. Optical sensors
detected the same event at 16:43:42 UTC. The event  lasted 2
seconds at 1 micron wavelength Estimates of total radiated power
(assuming a 6000K Blackbody model) are 1.1 x 10 exp 12 Joules.

****************************************************************

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS SATELLITE BOLIDE RELEASE AND ALL PREVIOUS

SUCH RELEASES CAN BE FOUND ON THE WWW AT

http://phobos.astro.uwo.ca/~pbrown/usaf.html
----------
Clear skies,
Bob Young








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                 TMP News: News Briefing - January 20, 2000

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 07:42:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:15:19 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing - January 20, 2000



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 20, 2000

_____________________________



UPDATED FORMATS FOR TMP NEWS
AND SPECIAL RESEARCH PROJECTS

The format of TMP News is being modified somewhat, in the
continuing effort to provide information on as widea range of
relevant issues, in as efficient and timely a manner, as
possible. TMP News will consist of a daily News Briefing summary
of the latest news and reports, with direct links to the full
reports, either on the TMP web site or on external sites, as
well as other periodic special reports on major breaking news
and updates on TMP-related news, such as upcoming lectures and
other events.

TMP News is not a newsletter in the usual sense, rather it is a
more frequently updated electronic news service. We are living
in a time when news relating to issues of interest to TMP News
subscribers is happening on a regular basis. It is therefore the
purpose of this service to provide quick access to this
information, in a "near real time format" (ie. when news is
breaking, or soon after, rather than in a strictly weekly or
monthly format). Hence, the information is condensed into news
briefings (summarized listings). Readers can then go to the
links that are of the most interest to them for the full
reports. All links can also be accessed from the News page on
the web site. In short, this service, similar to ones used by
various news networks and other groups, is designed for those
who are truly information-hungry, and is a means of covering
many different subject areas, rather than more sporadic reports
highlighting only a few selected stories.

Part of the basis and goal of TMP is to be an alternative source
of information to the mainstream and tabloid media on critical
issues. TMP News is one part of this effort. The Millennium
Forum is another. Other long-term projects are in the initial
planning stages. The main editorial work will come with the
primary publishing venue of TMP, the quarterly print journal
Millennia (by paid subscription), which will focus on more
in-depth coverage of these issues. First issue is scheduled for
spring of 2000.

For this first edition, a roundup of reports since the beginning
of this new year (and millennium) are posted below. Subsequent
editions will have the latest current reports and information.

Also, the Special Research Projects section of the web site is
being reformated (under construction); specific subjects are now
grouped in four current areas: Quanta (Science and Technology),
Biosphere (Environment), Exotica (Unexplained Phenomena and
Forteana) and Dreamland (Government Secrecy and Black Projects).
News items for TMP News will also be categorized in a similar
manner (see below), including as well listings for The
Millennium Forum (lectures, meetings), Media (media interviews
and articles), etc.

This is an ongoing work-in-progress, and feedback is welcome.

Welcome to the New Millennium!

Paul Anderson
Director
The Millennium Project

_____________________________


NEWS BRIEFING
1.20.00


THE NEW MILLENNIUM

Worldwide Millennium Celebrations
http://cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/01/01/2000/index.html


QUANTA
Science and Technology

Only Minor Y2K Glitches Reported
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/01/01/y2k.weekend.wrap/index.html

Y2K Bug Briefly Affected US Terrorist-Monitoring Effort, Pentagon Says
http://cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/01/05/y2k.pentagon.01/index.html

Europa: Latest Galileo Flyby May Reveal Liquid Ocean
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/europaflyby.html

Spacecraft Captures New Year's on Mars
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/marsnewyear.html

Aerial Search Turns Up No Trace of Mars Polar Landerer
http://cnn.com/1999/TECH/space/12/31/mars.search/index.html

Crippled Mars Lander Could Be in Crater - NASA
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/crippled.html

Report: Scientists Knew Mars Lander Could Set Down in Deep Valleyy
http://cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/01/07/mars.lander.01/index.html

JPL Builds Amphibious Monster Rover for Mars and Beyond
http://www.space.com/space/technology/bubblecar_000109.html

Official 'Mars Flag' Unfurls in Spacee
http://cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/01/07/mars.flag/index.html

Puerto Rican Forest is Ground Zero in Search for ETT
http://www.cnn.com/1999/TECH/space/12/29/puerto.rico.seti.ap/index.html


BIOSPHERE
Environment

300 Million Trees Downed in French Storms - "A Catastrophe"
http://www.sightings.com/politics6/catas.htm

Arctic Ice Thinning at an Alarming Rate
http://cnn.com/2000/NATURE/01/03/arctic.ice/index.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

Chinese UFO Boom Doesn't Worry Officials (New York Times)
http://nytimes.com/library/world/asia/011100china-ufos.html

Police Report on "Starfield Camouflage UFO"
http://millstadtpolice.homepage.com/aircraft.html

Photo and Drawings of "Starfield Camouflage UFO"
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/missouri99.html


DREAMLAND
Government Secrecy and Black Projects

"Area51" Reference on Sprint Telephone Service Disruption Reportt
http://216.68.77.17/img/sprintoutage.jpg

Probing the "Chemtrails" Conundrumm
http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/Brfmedia.htm

New Chemtrail Book by William Thomas
http://www.persweb.direct.ca/psa/newchembook.html

Chemtrail Planes Caught on Video in Near Collision Over Texass
http://www.sightings.com/politics6/spraying.htm

New Chemtrail Photos from Idahoo
http://www.sightings.com/politics6/morechem.htm

Heavy Night Chemtrails Reported Over Indiana
http://www.sightings.com/politics6/chemind.htm

Chemtrails Continue to Sicken Many - International Uproar Brewing
http://www.sightings.com/ufo5/chem.htm


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:37:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:26:46 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Datee: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:36:00 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Bob Shell and Kodak have never looked at one single frame of
 >camera original with the alien on it.

 >The only film examined with the alien on it is crummy dupe film.

 >A copy is not the same thing as camera original. In fact, there
 >is no proof that an original even exists.

Bob Shell saw what he needed to make a judgement about the film.
Kodak originally was satisified but then suddenly changed their
tune. I don't see the problem on whether the film is camera
original or not as long as Volker was pleased with his $100,000
buy.  Fox saw what they needed to convince themselves, but now
have changed their minds.

 >The fact that you are so overzealous in your defense of the AA
 >film is almost embarrassing.

Not to me but thanks for your concern.  I've researched the
footage since 95 and have continued to poke around trying to
find convincing evidence that Ray and the footage is a fake.
I'm not overzealous and my defense of Ray has nothing to do with
Ray.  Ray is just a player in all this.  What does embarrass me
is the attitude of the UFO community and their willingness to be
led by folks like yourself who who yell and wave their hands but
seldom have any evidence for their assumptions.  Please cite
YOUR compelling evidence.

 >how foolish you look trying to prop up the AA film (and Ray)---
 >will he ever return the favor? To be specific, will Ray ever
 >come up with the original film and let it be studied so that
 >you will be exonerated for trying to defend Ray and AA all this
 >time?

This has nothing to do with Ray.  I defend the AA because I
believe it to be an important historical document.  If you'll
read my previous posts, you'll see that all I'm asking folks to
do is keep an open mind.  I realize this might be hard for true
belivers like yourself who can make judgements without evidence.

Ray was visited by the US government in 95.  I think that's why
his hands are tied.  Don't you believe that US government agents
visit folks and make them offers they can't refuse?

Here's a reminder:

Paul Bennewitz was an Albuquerque businessman, trained as a
physicist, who in the late 1970's and early 80's became
convinced that aliens were flying around the Manzano Nuclear
Weapons Storage Facility, located near his house, and also
sending out electronic signals. Bennewitz observed and
photographed the alien craft from his deck and recorded the
electronic signals. He reported his finding to the Tucson-based
Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO), but they didn't
understand the significance of his research. Frustrated,
Bennewitz contacted Air Force Office of Special Investigations
on October 24, 1980.

It was after this contact that his troubles began.

The AFOSI decided to play him along and feed him false
information that would eventually lead to Bennewitz's mental
breakdown. The AFOSI were assisted in this devious plan by
William Moore, a respected and well known UFO researcher.

This is a glaring example of how agents of our government
interfere with serious UFO researchers. It's a form of
disinformation still commonly used. By making researchers seem
unhinged, there's no need to refute their work or discoveries.







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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:00:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:14:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:10:02 -0600
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hi everyone.

 >>Below is an article forwarded to me by a colleague which I think
 >>will be of particular interest to UFO UpDates subscribers.

 >>Nick Balaskas

 >>But a new book by two University of Washington scientists
 >>contends that, contrary to popular thought, we just might be
 >>alone and Earth might be unique, if not in the universe at least
 >>in this celestial neighborhood.

 >>In "Rare Earth," published this month by Copernicus Books/Springer,
 >>paleontologist Peter Ward and astronomer Donald Brownlee examine
 >>the remarkable confluence of conditions and events that
 >>deposited life-forming chemicals on Earth, allowed simple life
 >>to gain a foothold and then protected the planet sufficiently
 >>and created just the right environmental factors for advanced
 >>life to slowly evolve.

 >Hmm. Is David "Roswell" Rudiak still around? He didn't much like
 >it when I was making similar suggestions/arguments in reference
 >to the Mike Davis article we published in The Anomalist 5. Now
 >he (Rudiak) can direct his complaints (and counter-arguments, if
 >any) to real scientists and see how he stacks up against same.

Sooo, on this issue "real" scientists must be just those who
claim ET intelligent life can't exist outside of Earth. Somehow,
that doesn't sound very scientific.

However, bear in mind that there are REAL real scientists who
have written papers in peer-reviewed journals indicating that if
even only one other intelligent species within our galaxy had
evolved some 20 million or more years ago to a technological
level only a century beyond our present level, they by now would
or could have populated practically all the planets suitable for
life within the entire galaxy. Scientists on this tack include
M. H. Hart, E. M. Jones and C. Walters et al., writing in Icarus
Journal back in 1979-1981.

And it is no problem that this would need to have happened 20
million or more years ago, since it could just as well have
happened a billion years ago, our solar system being relatively
young. (And if one relaxes the assumption that the aliens'
technological/scientific innovations & achievements would cease
after they're only a century ahead of us, then one does not
exclude visitors from other galaxies mixing into our galaxy.) So
one needs only a very few, rare planets favorable for extended
development of life within a galaxy to explain existence of
galaxies by now populated with many different varieties of
intelligent alien life.

I should add that the forementioned scientists used this concept
of quick & easy population of an entire galaxy to argue,
following Fermi and his "paradox," that therefore no advanced
alien life exists within our galaxy, since we are uncolonized.
This of course involved the unspoken assumption that "genuine"
UFOs either do not exist or are not piloted by ETs. (Carl Sagan
tried to counter their argument by saying that any attempted
colonization of a galaxy would involve, on the average, a
stop-over time period of 100,000 years after reaching one
hospitable planet before embarking out to another star system in
search of the next favorable planet to colonize; hence he
believed or hoped it would take a half billion years to colonize
the galaxy, not just 20 million years, and by this time stellar
positions would continually be too scrambled to be able to
colonize more than just a local group of stellar systems. Hence
SETI could proceed on that basis.)

It should also be added that from what was quoted from Ward &
Brownlee, they failed to allow that those rare ETs who do evolve
within our galaxy and have become far advanced over us may well
have seeded other favorable planets within the galaxy with an
appropriate mixture of lowly life forms, thereby greatly
shortening the time required for further evolution on these
planets towards intelligent life. It seems that "real"
scientists have been defined as those who assume that
intelligent life outside of the Earth cannot be more than a few
centuries more advanced than us, or that science & technology
cannot continue to develop much past our present level. To my
mind, a true scientist would not tolerate either assumption, but
would instead keep it in mind as an exceedingly slim
possibility.


Jim Deardorff








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                              AA Film 'Experts'

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:37:13 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:24:02 -0500
Subject: AA Film 'Experts'


Dear Colleagues,

I would once again respectfully like to ask for you kind
assistance. As many of you already know I am writing a new book
on the 'alien autopsy' film. Part of the book will deal with
professional commentary from people qualified in camerawork,
archival film, anf film and photpgraphic experts in general.

I already have copies of the excellent research conducted by
Kent Jeffrey and the contacts he made with three former military
cameramen, plus information from Clive Tobin, Bob Shell, Theresa
Carlson and Sam Sherman.

I would therefore like to ak if anyone knows of any other
professional in this field who has commented on the film. If
you do, could you please contact me direct at:
pmquest@dial.pipex.com

Please forward this onto other interested parties or newsgroups,
and thank you once again for your kind assistance.


Yours Sincerely,


Philip Mantle.







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                     The Prophets Conference - Santa Fe

From: prophets@maui.net
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:36:48 -1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:40:26 -0500
Subject: The Prophets Conference - Santa Fe


The Prophets Conference ~ Santa Fe
April 14-16, 2000
http://www.greatmystery.org/santafeconference.html

Bringing together:

Gregg Braden
Dr. Edgar Mitchell
Joe Firmage
Robert Anton Wilson
Oriah Mountain Dreamer
James Redfield
Dr. Michio Kaku
James Twyman
Nicki Scully
Salle Merrill Redfield
Robert Morning Sky

The Prophets Conference Santa Fe develops a closer relationship
between science, spirituality, philosophy and art.  Assisting in
opening to greater balance and a new and more accurate
understanding of our challenges and choices, this gathering
brings us a rich exchange of remarkable and revelatory ideas and
insights.  Using compassion as a guiding principle, and the
fully permeable nature of Reality as genuine information, we
come together to redefine the possible.  Through novelty and
breakthrough we evolve our relationship with the Great Life
Force and allow our visions to become true.

Costs:

Full Conference Pass ~ includes all conference presentations
$300 if purchased by  January 21, 2000 $325 if purchased January
22 through March 20, 2000 $350 if purchased after March 21, 2000

A SOLD OUT conference is a Strong Possibility.  The number of
available seats in the James A. Little Theater in Santa Fe is
only 385.  The recent Prophets Conference ~ Port Townsend drew
an attendance of well over that for the full conference.  Be
sure to register early to guarantee your participation.  The
conference is one/half full as of Jan. 18.

For complete information please visit:
http://www.greatmystery.org/santafeconference.html Call
toll-free 1-888-777-5981 or send email to
prophets@greatmystery.org

Send your name and surface address to receive a brochure.

_________________________________________

Thank you for forwarding this information to your friends and
member lists. Questions, unsubscribe, subscribe, inquiries,
comments, issues? Send email to Cody@greatmystery.org


explore... http://www.greatmystery.org







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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:28:44 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:48:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas
 >Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >But a new book by two University of Washington scientists
 >contends that, contrary to popular thought, we just might be
 >alone and Earth might be unique, if not in the universe at least
 >in this celestial neighborhood.

 >In "Rare Earth," published this month by Copernicus Books/Springer,
 >paleontologist Peter Ward and astronomer Donald Brownlee examine
 >the remarkable confluence of conditions and events that
 >deposited life-forming chemicals on Earth, allowed simple life
 >to gain a foothold and then protected the planet sufficiently
 >and created just the right environmental factors for advanced
 >life to slowly evolve.

I've got a stack of books on my own bookshelf which argue quite
convincingly the opposite point of view.  Since DNA, operating
according to all of the known laws of physics in this Universe,
produces massive quantities of life under all kinds of extreme
conditions it stands to reason that DNA would exist and behave
the same way under similar conditions throughout the entire
Universe.

Or do the laws of physics operate in a special window only on
this planet? Creationists have often argued that life is so rare
a possibility that a 'creator' must be responsible.  A
watchmaker to construct the watch.  But work by Dawkins and Koza
have demonstrated that the only watchmaker at work is the laws
of physics themselves, laws which guarentee life in untold
abundance.

Life permeates this planet because the reproductive mechanisms
of living things produce enough copies of themselves to more
than offset the odds. Chance of survival only one in a million?
No problem weighed against billions of sperm and eggs.

Life is as much a property of the Universe as any of the laws of
physics . Intelligent life appears to have been a natural
byproduct of evolution here, so there is no reason to presume it
would not be the same on planetary systems throughout Universe.

John







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:50:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:51:54 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >From: Ed Gehrman
 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:37:31 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:26:46 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

Previously, I offered:

 >>Bob Shell and Kodak have never looked at one single frame of
 >>camera original with the alien on it.

 >>The only film examined with the alien on it is crummy dupe film.

Actually, I may be in error, here, Ed. I'd have to dig through
the archives but I don't think that Bob has even seen DUPE film
with an image of the alien on it.

In fact, I'm not sure that Bob has seen anything other than a
videotape and a frame or two of underexposed dupe leader!

(I could take this opportunity to make a joke using the phrase
"dupe leader", but what's the point? I'm sure the readers are
way ahead of the curve on this.)  ;D

Onward through the fog, I offered:

 >>A copy is not the same thing as camera original. In fact, there
 >>is no proof that an original even exists.

Ed replied:

 >Bob Shell saw what he needed to make a judgement about the film.

Yes, Ed. this is true. The problem is that you continually
choose to quote what Bob said several year ago as opposed to
what he said months ago. I'm sure EBK is tired of this nonsense
so I'll post this one last time. In a heated discussion with me,
Bob declared the following, very, very definitive statement not
long ago:

 >>"I never said that I can prove _anything_. All we have is video
 >>made from purported 16 mm film, photocopies of film box labels,
 >>the cameraman's statements, and a lot of information supplied to
 >>me and others by Ray Santilli. We have no hard proof that there
 >>IS any film or that there is a cameraman."

How you interpret this to be positive support for your notion
that AA is real is beyond me.

Moving on, you declared:

 >I don't see the problem on whether the film is camera
 >original or not as long as Volker was pleased with his $100,000
 >buy.

<snip>

 >I defend the AA because I
 >believe it to be an important historical document.


Ed, the Dead Sea Scroll was an important document. A Xerox of
the Dead Sea Scroll isn't worth the paper it's printed on. And a
blank sheet of Xerox paper with NO image on it would work well
within the confines of my bathroom. Your inability to understand
why a lack of camera original is important shows just how
simplistic your thinking is regarding your "research" in this
matter.

If Volker is pleased that he bought a $100,000 fake then I'm
happy as can be for him. However, I do not see what that has to
do with the actual validity of AA!

But let's continue. You wrote:

 > What does embarrass me
 >is the attitude of the UFO community and their willingness to be
 >led by folks like yourself who who yell and wave their hands but
 >seldom have any evidence for their assumptions.  Please cite
 >YOUR compelling evidence.


What do you consider evidence, Ed? I've given my views on the
containment suits and the questionable film stock and lack of
camera original and the lighting and on and on and on. The
archives are full of this stuff.You have simply chosen to ignore
anything that anyone has said because it doesn't fit your
personal mythology regarding AA. On the other hand, while you
claim that we "seldom have any evidence" for our assumptions,
your one BIG assumption that the AA film is real has NO evidence
of any kind.


Finally (though I doubt it), you wrote:

 >If you'll
 >read my previous posts, you'll see that all I'm asking folks to
 >do is keep an open mind.  I realize this might be hard for true
 >belivers like yourself who can make judgements without evidence.

Now I get it, Ed. You're using the old "Do as I say, not as I
do" approach to debate.

Very clever. _we_ have to come up with evidence to support our
views that AA is a fake (never mind that you ignore it when we
do). On the other hand, _you_ do not have to produce any
evidence at all that AA is real!

Dumb.

AA is a fake.

No, actually, AA is a bad fake.

Later,
Roger Evans







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:12:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:12:33 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip





 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:50:24 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Ed Gehrman
 >>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:37:31 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:26:46 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >Previously, I offered:

 >>>Bob Shell and Kodak have never looked at one single frame of
 >>>camera original with the alien on it.

 >>>The only film examined with the alien on it is crummy dupe film.

 >Actually, I may be in error, here, Ed. I'd have to dig through
 >the archives but I don't think that Bob has even seen DUPE film
 >with an image of the alien on it.

Once again the 'Alien Autopsy' has become tiresome. I'll post
what sits in the in-box here and that'll be an end to it -
unless some startling new revelations are presented.

Michael Lennick, back on the 11th of this month sent me the
following. Posted to the List it has been totally ignored and
seems to cover the crux of the matter:


 >Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:51:26 -0500
 >From: Michael Lennick <michael@*****.com>
 >Subject: Re: Steve Johnson?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:54:50 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>Subject: Steve Johnson?

 >>Dear colleagues,

 >>Does anyone happen to have a snail mail or e-mail address for
 >>US special effects artist Steve Johnson?

<snip>

 >However, had we proceeded, the coup-de-gras would probably have
 >been my own examination of the footage, which revealed it to
 >have been mastered at 30 frames per second - not 24.

 >Spottable by any casual frame-by-frame glance at the footage.

 >There are no repeated frames.

 >24 fps film, when transferred to 30 fps video, requires every
 >5th frame to be repeated.

 >This suggests either a film mastered at 30fps, or a video master
 >treated to look like old B&W reversal stock - both of which we
 >do all the time in current production, but neither of which were
 >in practice in the pre-VTR days this purports to represent.

 >I can't believe this crap still has any currency left.

No Michael, neither can I.

ebk








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:29:29 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:20:12 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:36:00 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Ed Gehrman
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:12 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:24:34 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>>To: Robert Gates
 >>>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:37:18 -0500 (EST)
 >>>Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:22:14 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >Previously, Robert had reasonably offered:

 >>>From a personal point of view I would be interested in the
 >>>analysis of ONE single frame of the film from Independent
 >>>experts such as Kodak and or others.

 >Ed responds:

 >>Bob Shell is an independent expert and he says that what he saw
 >>was very old film.  He was convinced that the film he saw was
 >>the film Ray bought for Volker.  Volker is convinced that what
 >>he bought was old film shot by the cameraman.  Kodak did verify
 >>the film was 1927, 1947, or 1967.  They saw film with an image
 >>and the film leader.

 ><snip>

 >>Here's the point that needs to be made over and over again until
 >>folks understand: There is not one bit of evidence that this is a
 >>fake.


 >Here's the point that needs to be made over and over again
 >until _you_ understand:

 >I doesn't matter if Ray and Volker were satisfied! Who cares!?

 >Bob Shell and Kodak have never looked at one single frame of
 >camera original with the alien on it.

Bob Shell _nor_ Kodak have ever looked at one single frame of
camera original film OR a dupe with _the_ alien on it!!

Now, there's a point that needs to be made.

Ed is clearly attempting to mislead people with his claims,
such as this one:

"...Kodak did verify the film was 1927, 1947, or 1967.  They saw
film with an image and the film leader. "

Let me remind you once again, neither Kodak or Bob Shell saw
film with an image that can be connected to the autopsy footage
because the frames were clearly added to the footage, which can
easily seen by anyone who has a copy of the video.

Ed, you know those frames can't be connected to the film yet you
mislead everyone with your idiotic statements.

 >The only film examined with the alien on it is crummy dupe
 >film.

The only film examined did not have an alien on it. In fact, the
only film examined could not be determined to have come from the
autopsy footage as these frames were spliced into the footage.
They could have easily come from some archive somewhere (and I
don't mean SAC's archive either! <G>).

 >A copy is not the same thing as camera original. In fact,
 >there is no proof that an original even exists.

Exactly!

 >The fact that you are so overzealous in your defense of the AA
 >film is almost embarrassing. I wonder, Ed; considering how
 >foolish you look trying to prop up the AA film (and Ray)---
 >will he ever return the favor? To be specific, will Ray ever
 >come up with the original film and let it be studied so that
 >you will be exonerated for trying to defend Ray and AA all
 >this time?

Who cares?

 >I think you already know the answer to that question.

 >Wise up.

Never gonna happen.

Rebecca








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 23:01:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:23:48 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:37:31 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Datee: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:36:00 -0600
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Bob Shell and Kodak have never looked at one single frame of
 >>camera original with the alien on it.

 >>The only film examined with the alien on it is crummy dupe film.

 >>A copy is not the same thing as camera original. In fact, there
 >>is no proof that an original even exists.

 >Bob Shell saw what he needed to make a judgement about the film.
 >Kodak originally was satisified but then suddenly changed their
 >tune. I don't see the problem on whether the film is camera
 >original or not as long as Volker was pleased with his $100,000
 >buy.  Fox saw what they needed to convince themselves, but now
 >have changed their minds.

<snip>

Ed-

What you are saying is accurate, but only part of the story.

Bob Shell provided a response based on information that he had
at hand and the word of others (i.e. Ray).

He has never actually seen any film with the alien's image on
it, and accepted Ray's word that it existed.

Ray's only confirmation from Kodak was that the edge codes
indicated that it was film from 1927, 1947, or 1967, which was
the result of an examination of a xerox copy of film that had no
image.

Again, the provenance of this "film" is based on acceptance of
Ray's word.

I would add that FOX probably has no opinion one way or the
other, but that apparently is not true for Robert Kiviat, who
was the producer involved in both productions.  FOX just
happened to be the network that purchased his product.  And
what, pray tell, does Volker's state of mind have to do with
anything?

The rhetoric is getting awfully thick in this discussion, and I
hope it doesn't begin to cloud the issue to the point where it's
hard to separate proven fact from opinion.

Of course, getting any three of us to agree on "proven facts" in
relation to just about anything would be difficult.... but
that's a different discussion.

Steve








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@pobox.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:57:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:26:17 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:26:12 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>To: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:37:18 -0500 (EST)
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:22:14 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>From a personal point of view I would be interested in the
 >>analysis of ONE single frame of the film from Independent
 >>experts such as Kodak and or others.

 >Bob Shell is an independent expert and he says that what he saw
 >was very old film.  He was convinced that the film he saw was
 >the film Ray bought for Volker.  Volker is convinced that what
 >he bought was old film shot by the cameraman.  Kodak did verify
 >the film was 1927, 1947, or 1967.  They saw film with an image
 >and the film leader.

 >Why is it so important that the film be proven for you.  Why not
 >just keep an open mind until there is proof that it is a hoax?
 >Here's the point that needs to be made over and over again until
 >folks understand: There is not one bit of evidence that this is a
 >fake.

 >There is considerable circumstancial evidence that the AA is a
 >real event. Dennis Murphy's article alone would convince most
 >folks (if they read it with an open mind) that the debris, at
 >least, should be studied carefully

 >>Bottom line is 5 years from now the film will still not quite
 >>be proven true, and Ray still won't have provided any original
 >>film for examination by Kodak or a film lab.

 >I believe that Ray isn't free to do as he pleases in regard to
 >the raw film.  Volker is not being cooperative.  We certainly
 >don't have all the answers and yes it might be another five
 >years (or longer) before we know "for sure".  But that doesn't
 >mean we should stop our investigations or close our minds.

Ed, how much is Ray paying you to represent him here?  I thought
at first when I read your response, that it was written by
Santilli's publicist.  Then I went back to the header to see what
the name of his publicist is.  And it's you again.  So I can't
help to ask you a simple question... which is: Do you represent
Santilli?



Roger R. Prokic
Principal RF Systems Engineer
Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp.
Boulder, Colorado USA
-=[ sent from a Palm Vx & MultiMail Pro v3.1 ]=-









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                UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00491 20.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:30:57 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:33:19 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00491 20.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00491 20.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Vivian Jensen AUFORN QLD

1800 Callin Code: 00491 20.01.2000

Date:  14.12.1999
Day: Tuesday
Time seen: 6.50pm
Name:  Mrs C
Location: Armidale, NSW
Given to investigator: Vivian Jensen AUFORN QLD

Report:

Shape: Bright shining light, square frame on top and bottom.
Size:  12 metres in diameter
Objects: One
Colour:  Bright lights around edge
Sound: Low Humming
Speed: Outside of Witness home
Duration:  approx 10 minutes
Direction: ?
Other:  UFO faded away
Witnesses:  One

Report:

A couple of weeks before Christmas 1999, Bright shining light
outside of Witness' home.  Object 12metres in diameter, bright
lights around edge, square frame on top and bottom.  Watched for
approximately 10 minutes, house sensor light came on and the UFO
faded away.  There was a low humming noise.  Witness reports
having sore eyes for the next 3 days after sighting, AUFORN, Qld

Thank You Vivian Jensen for this report.

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>









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                UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00492 20.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:49:41 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:36:45 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00492 20.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00492 20.01.2000


FOLLOWUP Vivian Jensen AUFORN QLD

1800 Callin Code: 00492 20.01.2000

Date:  17.01.2000
Day: Tuesday
Time seen: 8.30pm
Name:  Mrs C
Location: Armidale, NSW
Given to investigator: Vivian Jensen AUFORN QLD

Report:

Shape: Bright shining light, square frame on top and bottom.
Size:  12 metres in diameter
Objects: One
Colour:  Bright lights around edge
Sound: Low Humming
Speed: Outside of Witness home
Duration:  approx 10 minutes
Direction: ?
Other:  UFO faded away
Witnesses:  One

Report:

When sighted it was fading out.  Sighting lasted for 2 to 3
minutes.  Witness surveyed the scene but found nothing unusual,
such as marks, burns etc. AUFORN, Qld

Thank You Vivian Jensen for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>









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               Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 03:56:38 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:39:21 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


Criteria for Cydonian Artificiality

by Mac Tonnies

Armchair debunkers, while quite confident that the "Face" on
Mars is a naturally occurring formation, have yet to defend
their position with any sort of proper scientific rebuttal.  The
popular position on the matter is that the Face (and by
inference the other anomalies in the region) is a "pile of
rocks."

They may be right.  But how did they arrive at this conclusion?
The absence of literature on the subject leads one with no
answer other than that they _didn't_ arrive at this conclusion
via any proper scientific procedure.  The official verdict, that
the Face is a mere "rocky mesa," was arrived at by a cursory
examination of two tragically impaired versions of the same MGS
photo [one "contrast enhanced" so as to appear featureless, the
other "stretched" ~100 pixels (!) to give the impression of lack
of symmetry].

Here lies the glaring fallacy of the anti-Cydonia sentiment:
since, in the debunkers' opinion, the Face simply couldn't be
"real" to begin with, scientific measure needn't be taken in
dealing with the MGS data.  Unfortunately for the mainstream
skeptics, they forget that criteria for artificiality had
already been carefully drafted by scientists with much to
"lose": namely, members of SPSR, the organization mainly
responsible for the three tantalizing Cydonia image swaths at
our disposal.



The possibility of a natural origin for the Face has, strangely
enough, been explored from a much more intellectually robust
angle by scientists willing to entertain the Artificiality
Hypothesis.  While SPSR never once claimed the Face was an
artifact, it was their openness to the possibility--however
unpopular or improbable--that allowed them to formulate a
practical criteria for the Face's proposed artificiality.  This
material can be easily referenced in the book _The Case for the
Face_ a collection of articles by specialists in a number of
fields who find the Artificiality Hypothesis sufficiently
engaging to warrant future study.

The skeptical community has either ignored this important effort
or has chosen not to address it.  The latter begins to look more
and more probable as the evidence in favor of the Face's
potential non-natural origin begins to stack up.

In fact, the Face effectively passes every hurdle set up for it
within the limits of the MGS' single frame.  It should come as
no surprise at all that the arch-skeptics have yet to offer
their rationale for dismissing Cydonia: they simply have no
rationale to offer, other than to point at the TJP
orthorectification (since demonstrated to be an utterly invalid
digital interpretation of a highly symmetric formation).

Of course, they may also trivialize the unusual shapes to be
found elsewhere in Cydonia by mantric insistence on the lack of
terrestrial analogs: "If this stuff is artificial, where are the
roads?" etc.  Such reasoning surpasses the merely uninformed and
becomes naive whining.

I am told by self-proclaimed skeptics that the burden of proof
is on those supportive of the Artificiality Hypothesis.  The
opposite is in fact true; defenders of the AH have shown that
the Face, if it is in fact a deliberate representation, shows
all of the features intimated by the Viking data as well as new,
entirely unexpected ones such as the correctly placed and
proportioned "nostrils," "lips" and apparent ornamentation on
the framing mesa.  All of the above features are precisely
aligned with the Face's centerline, as ascertained by elevation
data from the Viking and MGS images.  They do not appear
natural, and no prosaic explanations have been forthcoming from
the Cydonia bashers, who I suspect secretly hope the entire
issue will evaporate by virtue of its momentum in the media
(which is correspondingly bad).

Thus the bar constituting "acceptable evidence" for
artificiality is raised arbitrarily, when in truth that bar has
already been knocked from its moorings.  Cydonia has passed the
criteria set up for it, and it is our logical duty to explore
this issue further.

Condescending dismissals of the sort that have plagued the
Cydonian Imperative (i.e. "There must come a point, however,
where any one- man campaign to bring this all up again becomes
distasteful") speak more from a quasi-religious "faith" that the
Face is natural ("It simply has to be, doesn't it?  And if I
suggest that it isn't, people will laugh at me!") than any sort
of informed perspective.

If the burden of proof rests with anyone (and it is my position
that no one should be forced to proclaim "natural" or
"artificial" until NASA carries through with its promise to take
more pictures), it belongs squarely on the skeptics' shoulders.

In the meantime, research will continue and new discoveries will
be made from existing data.  The skeptics will continue to
promote the now-familiar fiction that the Face is a dead issue,
devoid of scientific merit.

Nevertheless, the Face looks like an intentional sculpture,
inconsistent with purely natural mechanisms.  And it's not going
anywhere.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a newsletter devoted to the immediate implementation of
manned Mars missions and the democratization of space
science, emphasizing the strange formations found in the
Cydonia Mensae region.  This list is not affiliated with any
particular Mars advocacy group.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

NOW SEEKING: web space for archival puposes and online
petition

Useful websites (note that not all positions represented are
shared with the Cydonian Imperative):

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Mars: Mysteries of the Red Planet:
http://www.mufor.org/mars.html
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
Cydonia 2000: http://welcome.to/cydonia/
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 21

                            Re: AA Film 'Experts'

From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:13:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:42:52 -0500
Subject: Re: AA Film 'Experts'


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:37:13 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >To: updates@globalserve.net
 >Subject: AA Film 'Experts'

 >Dear Colleagues,

 >I would once again respectfully like to ask for you kind
 >assistance. As many of you already know I am writing a new book
 >on the 'alien autopsy' film. Part of the book will deal with
 >professional commentary from people qualified in camerawork,
 >archival film, anf film and photpgraphic experts in general.

 >I already have copies of the excellent research conducted by
 >Kent Jeffrey and the contacts he made with three former military
 >cameramen, plus information from Clive Tobin, Bob Shell, Theresa
 >Carlson and Sam Sherman.

 >I would therefore like to ak if anyone knows of any other
 >professional in this field who has commented on the film. If
 >you do, could you please contact me direct at:
 >pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >Please forward this onto other interested parties or newsgroups,
 >and thank you once again for your kind assistance.

Phil,

I wonder if your book will list UFO UpDates as contributing
authors and technical advisors?

;o)

Dan

--

UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

Dan's Magic in Michigan !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/magician

WetSet Diving Vacations !
http://www.wetset.com

Czars Nightclub !
http://www.czars.com

Dantronix !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/testwave.html








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 21

             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:54:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:40:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 03:56:38 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Criteria for Cydonian Artificiality

 >by Mac Tonnies

 >Armchair debunkers, while quite confident that the "Face" on
 >Mars is a naturally occurring formation, have yet to defend
 >their position with any sort of proper scientific rebuttal.  The
 >popular position on the matter is that the Face (and by
 >inference the other anomalies in the region) is a "pile of
 >rocks."

As far as the face is concerned we are all 'armchair
debunkers/believers' since none of us have actually been to
Mars. It makes no difference what part of the Earth you travel
to or who you talk to, you are still examining the same data.

The first batch blurred giving the appearance of a face.

The second batch much clearer.

I don't know about the rest of you but I have eyes that work.

I do not need a scientist to tell me I am looking at a mountain
and a scattering of rocks.

Look on the bright side, one day we will indeed go to Mars. And
on that day you will have your answer depending on whether you
except it or not that is.

Dave.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 21

                   Filer's Files #3 -2000 Space Awakening

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:12:56 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:42:01 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #3 -2000 Space Awakening


Filer's Files #03 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
January 21, 2000,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. -- Chuck Warren Webmaster.

OUR ANCESTORS MAY BE FROM SPACE

Cosmic Ancestry is a new theory that the origin of life on Earth was seeded
from space, and that life's evolution to higher forms depends on genetic
programs that come from space.  It is a wholly scientific, testable theory
for which evidence is accumulating.  "We don't know where life first
started," says Curt Mileikowsky, a physicist with the Royal Institute of
Technology in Sweden, "but we know Mars was available for life earlier than
Earth."  Mars, smaller than Earth, would have cooled to hospitable
temperatures first.  And most planetary scientists envision that early Mars
would have been a warm, wet place -- conditions considered amenable to life.
In the work, Mileikowsky and nine other researchers from institutions around
the world calculated that meteors and comets crashing into the Red Planet
would have knocked billions of Martian rocks into space.  About one of every
150 of those Martian rocks then fell on Earth within a million years, the
researchers said. In total, more than 55 billion Martian rocks have fallen to
Earth in the past 5 billion years. The findings were presented at the
American Astronomical Society meeting in Atlanta and will be published in the
journal Icarus. The rocky interplanetary highway isn't just one way. Comets
and meteors also blasted pieces of Earth into space, some of which made their
way to Mars, though not quite as many.

Scientists have found a tough but peaceful pair of bacteria that might have
been able to survive the arduous trip from Mars. `They are simply happy
creatures,'' Curt Mileikowsky said of the two bacteria strains that were
tested for road-hardiness in a Swedish lab. ``They don't cause any disease,
they are very peaceful.''  But were they the first visitors from Mars?  The
bacteria -- Bacillus subtilis (wild) and Deinococcus radiodurans R1-- are
resistant to high speeds, extreme heat and radiation.  These properties would
be necessary to survive a voyage by from Mars to Earth.  There is even
tentative evidence that the outbreak of serious flu epidemics are tied to new
flu strains arriving from space.  Thanks to Ken Chang ABCNews.com.
Editor's Note:  Its interesting that scientists now say we may not have
originated from an ancient swamp on Earth after all, but that life came from
outer space.  I'm glad to see scientists and religion are becoming closer in
agreement on how life on Earth occurred. Genesis 1-1 states, "In the
beginning God created the heavens and the earth.  The earth was without form
and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God
was moving over the face of the waters."  Verse-11, "And God said let the
earth burst forth with every sort of grass and seed-bearing plant, and fruit
trees with seeds inside the fruit, so that these seeds will produce the kinds
of plants they come from."

DISNEY CRUISE SHIP UFO

BAHAMAS -- On December 25, 1999, my husband, two sons and I were aboard the
Disney Cruise Ship, which was sailing to Castaway Cay from Nassau in the
Bahamas at 3:30 AM.  The ship was headed east and we were on the right side
of the ship looking south when we spotted a very large, stationary, and oval
shaped light in the sky.  It was much too large to be an airplane.  I grabbed
the binoculars to get a closer look.  The best way to describe it was it
looked like a gigantic ball of large lights that subtly changed shape.  The
lights faded out and went completely dark and within a couple of minutes it
lit back up again.  One of my sons then took the binoculars and agreed he saw
the same thing I did.  He then spotted another ball of lights, the same exact
thing, at sea level.  Thanks to DDDDIXON

NEW JERSEY DIGITAL PHOTO OF UFO?

JACKSON -- We were at Great Adventure theme park in Jackson, and my brother
took this picture with a digital camera. When he burned the pictures on a
disk, we noticed this object in the sky.  We had no idea it was there when we
took the picture.  Thanks to: Hoo: hooshere@home.com

LONG ISLAND, NEW YORK GEEN/BLUE OBJECT

HUNTINGTON -- My girlfriend and I witnessed an event about 25 minutes ago
which we are concerned about.  We live in Huntington in Long Island, NY and
witnessed a greenish/blue object moving from the south towards the north at a
high altitude and at an incredible velocity.  It was not an airplane, a
comet/meteor, nor Satellite either!  I don't know who to ask.  Please direct
me somewhere that I can get some peace of mind.  Thanks to Gregory Mineo and
Isur@america.net balzac72@hotmail.com.

WASHINGTON DC UFOs CELEBRATE NEW YEARS

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA -- I attended "America's Millennium" celebration at the
National Mall on New Year's Eve.  With a large crowd we were entering the
Foggy Bottom Metro Station escalators at about 1:00 AM with the sound of
fireworks still exploding not far away.  I noticed shooting stars near the
western horizon and said to my friend, "What good timing for shooting stars?"
Then I got a better look at what they were.  I saw an identical pair of dark
but lit cylindrical objects "flying" in formation from northwest to southeast
passing almost directly above me.  They were definitely not meteors.  They
moved at high speed, but I was able to see them clearly.  Less than a minute
later a single cylinder moved from WSW to ENE at about the same speed and had
the same appearance.  I then said, "Am I seeing UFOs?" No one else seemed to
notice.  Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC www.ufocenter.com!

VIRGINIA DISC HOVERS OVER WITNESSES

RICHMOND -- On October 10, 1999, a disk shaped UFO was observed by a high
school teacher and her two teenagers at 7: 00 PM in clear weather.  MUFON
investigator Joan Woodward interviewed the witnesses.  Therese P. was driving
on Route 645 along the Appomattox River near the Ft. Lee Military Reservation
when Matthew 14, sighted a large object rising out of the woods.  The object
was hovering low above the trees just south of the Federal Reformatory at
twilight.  The three witnesses described the object as 10 to 13 pulsating and
rotating white amber lights in a circular formation-moving counter clockwise.
  There was also a large white amber light that did not pulsate.  Therese
continued to drive toward the lights and, when they were a half mile away,
they estimated the entire formation was about 100 to 150 feet above the
ground and the size of her fist.  A few seconds later they saw more single
lights rapidly approach from the south and hover in a horizontal line to the
left of the others.  These lights were about the size of one of the lights in
the circle.

Route 64 curves to the south about one hundred yards to the east of where the
lights were and, as they made this turn, the vehicle's head lights passed
under the objects.  The objects appeared to respond to the headlights by
slowly moving south parallel to the road.  The lights hovered over several
buildings used to house the staff of the Federal Reformatory.  They wanted a
better look, so they drove west down a private driveway toward the houses.
When she was almost beneath the lights, she pulled to the side of the road,
cut the engine and lights off, and rolled down the windows.  The witnesses
reported there was an unnatural silence in the area and it was like entering
a sound proof room.  They observed the lights through some trees. The object
was the size of an automobile tire at arm's length.  After watching for a few
minutes the formation of lights then disappeared and two seconds later
reappeared in the east in the same formation.  Matthew saw a streak of white
light as they moved.  The object then moved instantaneously to an area about
three miles distant.  Contacts with local military and airports indicate no
one else was aware of the incident.  The 13-year-old daughter had a red mark
on the back of her neck and one behind her left ear.  There was also a
semicircular formation of red puncture marks on her forehead after the
incident.  Thanks to VA State Director Ricardo Atristain

GEORGIA UFO INVESTIGATION

LA GRANGE - Investigator John Thompson writes I visited with the father and
son who were 75 to 80 yards from the UFO that was hovering about 12 feet high
above their property!  Both are excellent witnesses.  This was a
close-encounter and may tie in with what folks in South Mississippi and
airplane crew in Missouri saw the same night.  Unless the shuttle was fixing
to land in a Troup County pasture and has silent boosters we can safely rule
the shuttle out! Actual time of sighting was around 8:05-8:10 p.m., Eastern
Time.  The forty-four-year old father, who is a large landowner, has two
years of agricultural engineering.  The object maneuvered as "smooth as
silk."  It descended, ascended and changed directions several times with
sparks or ashes "coming off like a campfire." The sparks or ashes were not
ejected.  He is certain that the UFO is of alien manufacture, was under
intelligent control and was not piloted by a human. The witnesses believe the
speed of the UFO was 400 to 500 mph.  John made some measurements and
calculations and feels the speed was 325-350 mph.  The reaction time to do
the zigzag or "weave" in response to lights going on (truck lights) was, as
he said, entirely too fast for any human to perform.  It could be a cruise
missile with highly sophisticated terrain-hugging, light-sensing, sensors and
computer controls.  However, the witnesses and John have trouble accepting
this explanation.  It remains a true UFO of truck size that could manipulate
its own internal lighting, guidance and speed.  A pinkish red light seen at
the end of sighting was not the exhaust of an engine No sound was made at any
time of the UFO sighting.  The UFO was upwind from the witnesses, and they
could clearly hear coonhounds upwind baying over a mile away.  The UFO made
no sound at only 75-80 yards.  No burn spots were found under the path of the
UFO.  A thorough search was made of the property. The FAA knows of no
military or commercial testing in the area. The witnesses were video taped
and signed a general case form.  John says, "I consider this to be in the top
ten percent of cases I've done." Thanks to John Thompson
gingerjohn@peoplepc.com.

ILLINOIS FLYING TRIANGLE POLICE REPORT

SUMMERFIELD -- "On January 5, 2000, at 0415, I was dispatched to the north
side of Lebanon in response to a call received by the St. Clair County
Sheriff's Department."  An object described as big as a two story house with
bright lights was flying around the northern end of Lebanon.  While heading
east on Widicus Road, I saw what looked like two big, very bright white
lights, very close together, in a stationary position, over the town of
Summerfield.  I called this in to the dispatcher, advised that I was going
over there to check on it. I also told them it definitely wasn't the moon or
a star.  While heading south on Rt.4, it changed shape, and looked like the
two lights merged into one big one before my eyes.  After getting into the
town of Lebanon, I turned eastbound onto Route 50.  While traveling
eastbound, I watched it change into what looked like an elongated cigar. It
was to the southeast of me at this time.  There were a few cars on the road,
so I turned on my overhead emergency lights, I was going approx.75-80 mph
while heading in the direction of the object. When I turned onto old Route
50, it started moving slowly northeast. I stopped my squad car, turned off
the overhead lights, and turned off the car. It then headed southwest at a
very high rate of speed.  It looked like it was 2000 ft above the ground.  It
passed just south of my position, about 150 to 200 feet away from me. When I
began to tell the dispatcher, it then accelerated, and headed southwest
towards Shiloh, before I could finish what I was going to tell the
dispatcher, it looked like it was over Shiloh's southeast side. I told the
dispatcher that if a Shiloh officer would look up, he should see it. Right
after the end of my transmission, Shiloh advised he could see it, and that it
was still heading southwest at a high rate of speed.

Soon after that, the Millstadt officer told the dispatcher that he could see
it. The next reporting agency was the Dupo police Dept., who said he was
watching it through his field glasses. I couldn't discern what shape it was
until it flew almost overhead. When it did, it looked like a large, narrow
triangle, with the sides being longer than the base. It had three large very
bright white lights in what appeared to be the three corners. The lights were
pointing straight down, with no oscillation. There was one red light that
blinked near the base, just in front of, and in between the large white
lights. When it was moving away from me, the back end looked long and narrow,
with white light coming from it. The light looked like it was one long unit.
There were multi-colored lights spanning the length of the back. I could tell
there was more than one color, but not sure which ones because they seemed to
blend together. Total length of observation was approx.4-5 minutes. Also,
when it flew past me, It made no noise. I've drawn a total of five pictures
of what I saw, and the Shiloh officer has drawn one. The Millstadt officer
said he was able to take a picture of it, but that it turned out fuzzy due to
the cold. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC www.ufocenter.com!
Editors Note: John Thompson one or our best investigators writes, "Seems
people are now admitting that the sightings were in a direct line heading
toward a blimp airport in Cahokia, IL and the object emitted a low level buzz
not unlike that of a blimp."  Its obvious further investigation is needed.

NEW ZEALAND PILOT SEES UFO

NORTH ISLAND -- A commercial pilot reports to ISUR that on December 15, 1999,
he and an associate were walking on a beach located on the East Coast of
North Island.  A large green light came across the calm and still water at
about 11:30 PM.  The green light turned a bit, indicating two additional
smaller lights.  The object/light accelerated past the witnesses at an
estimated 200 knots and at an altitude of about 100 feet, completely silent.
The object/light was observed as it traveled about 3 kilometers and then
disappeared.  The witness later spoke to a nearby farmer who told him that he
had observed a similar event while driving his tractor. The farmer had topped
a rise and suddenly stopped his tractor when he saw a huge UFO 50 meters
away.  There were flashing lights around a middle rim of a stationary disc
that was 100 meters in diameter.  The farmer turned off his tractor lights
and at that moment the lights on the object went out.  Another bright light
appeared at the top and it took off with a deep buzzing noise and
disappeared.  Thanks to ISUR at www.isur.com and Tom Sheets

ABDUCTIONS BY ROBED HOODED ALIENS

In recent months we have been getting reports of hooded and robed humanoids
walking along roads and possibly participating in abductions.  The witnesses
report they are awakened in the middle of the night when a blue light fills
the bedroom.  They are paralyzed but able to look around the room, and a
robed figure is present. Sometimes the witnesses claim the eyes are red or
glowing red in appearance.  The witnesses' claim that they and other family
members describe similar or the same hooded robed figures in their homes.
Often the robed figure is observed coming out of the wall with several other
smaller humanoids with it.  The larger robed figure usually has its face
covered.  The witnesses often ask, "Who are you, what do you want?  However,
they have trouble talking, and are only able to make muffled or chirping
noises.  This may indicate their vocal cords have been paralyzed.  Usually
the witnesses awake in the morning with indications that an abduction or some
type of examination as taken place.

This is the key time for witnesses to review the night's events.  If you
believe you have been visited its imperative that you look for evidence.  At
the very least, this is when the floor, bed, covers, night table, walls and
ceiling should be closely examined for evidence.  The evidence is most likely
on a molecular or very tiny level, specks of dust, footprints, powder, sand,
or silicon.  Anything unusual should be carefully swept up using a cotton
swabs and placed in a small glass jar.  Try to obtain a witness to the
collection of the evidence.  You may want to call the police, Ufologists or
at least another member of the family.  Abductions may only be remembered
like a dream.  Frequently, examinations, powdering, cutting and bruising of
the skin have taken place.  Again evidence and testimony from physicians and
outsiders is needed.   A dream or waking in the night needs substantiation.
If anyone has entered your house you have a right to have a police
investigation.  It is up to the possible abductee to cooperate, photograph
and help others to obtain evidence.  If a hooded figure or other humanoids
were in your room it is very possible they left evidence.  The most likely
point of entry into your room may still be damaged or changed in some way.
Tiny pieces of residue, silicon, glass, and meteorite powder may have been
left behind.  Meteorite powder will likely contain iron and other minerals
that can be picked up by a magnet.  Crop circles often contain meteorite
powder, while areas outside the crop circles have virtually none.  If you
have happen to have meteorite powder in your bedroom, this is strong
evidence.  I encourage people who suspect they have had an encounter to take
action.  Get dressed up and visit your local police, newspaper and
politicians with others.  You might want to take a copy of the above police
report in these files.  You may simply tell the police you suspect prowlers
are in your home at night and you wish protection.  I would not mention UFOs,
unless you have support from other witnesses.  You saw a flash, possibly a
flashlight and a prowler in your room.  You found this powder on the floor.
I'm not aware of even one abductee bringing in evidence to the authorities.
Now that police are observing these craft they may be more willing to listen
to your complaints.  Next is the story of a brave possible abductee.

STRANGE GOLD IMPLANT FOUND

Bill Bean writes that, "In July of 1997, I became mysteriously ill and
couldn't swallow, because there was a pressure on my throat."  I felt I was
choking, just drinking water.  It was the most horrible experience of my
life, and I wish it on no one.  I saw eight different doctors and many tests
were done and nobody gave me an answers. I was rushed by ambulance to the
hospital, three times in three weeks. I truly thought I was dying.  I noticed
a pattern of red circular marks on my back that I felt was a reaction to the
medication.  My wife photographed them.  I could not eat and my weight went
from a muscular 240 to 198 pounds.  On December 16, 1997, I was in the
bathroom with my wife, brushing my teeth when felt a bristle came off my
toothbrush causing me to cough.  I reached in my mouth to get the object with
my right index finger and found a gold -- square -- flat - chip.  Our first
thoughts were that it had to come out of the toothbrush. Something told me to
save it and I did.  The next night, while brushing my teeth, I started
coughing again and expelled two more of these things in the sink.  After
expelling the first piece, I felt like some pressure had come off of my
throat and the next night a lot of pressure had come off.  I began eating
normally and felt much better. Last year, I sent one piece to Derrel Sims who
had the object analyzed.  Bill says, "My piece matches a piece that was
surgically removed from a person four years ago in Brazil.  An isotopic test
to determine if the piece is alien is being accomplished."  Thanks to Bill
Bean bllin@erols.com.  Editors Note: Derrel Sims and I feel this may be the
most significant implant case thus far.  derrel@holman.net

UFO OVER ACAPULCO, MEXICO

ACAPULCO -- Citizens confirm that an OVNI (UFO) flew over the city of
Acapulco Mexico on January 18, 2000.  Many inhabitants of the tourist port on
the Pacific Ocean are saying that they saw a UFO that was kind of bright and
oval in shape.  It was seen for about seven minutes flying over the city with
making strange circles in the sky leaving a flash of green and yellow light
in trail.  Guillermo Alarcon UFO Investigations Guillermo Alarcon UFO
Investigations http://www.mp3.com/djy2k.

METEOR EXPLODES IN CANADA

WHITEHORSE -- On January 18, 2000, sensors aboard DOD satellites detected the
impact of a meteoroid at 16:44 UTC (9 a.m. local time), in the Yukon
Territory. The object detonated at an altitude of 25 km at 60.25 degrees
North latitude, 134.65 degrees West Longitude shaking houses and providing
residents with a dramatic light show.  Optical sensors detected the same
event at 16:43:42 UTC. The event lasted 2 seconds at 1 micron wavelength
Estimates of total radiated power are 1.1 x 10 exp. 12 Joules. -
Witnesses in Carcross said the explosion rattled windows and shook snow from
roofs in the small village about 120 miles (190 km) north of Juneau, Alaska,

SOLOMON ISLANDS UFO

NORO - On December 28, 1999, at 10.30 AM Respondents report sighting a
rotating unidentified object near the port of Noro, New Georgia Island,
Western Province. Solomon Islands. The 'object appeared quite bright at
first, though it looked like shinning glass in the sky'. After some minutes
it passed through some clouds and then appeared to be an 'solid object'.
Thanks to the Solomon Star 1/ 6/ 20 and National Space Center nsc@post.com,
Ross Dowe

PHOTOS OF ROSWELL DEBRIS

James Bond Johnson the photographer of the debris in General Ramey's office
on July 8, 1947, says, "If we take a scientific look at the scene, at
Headquarters 8th Army Air Force we can make certain assumptions, including:

1.  General Ramey, having only recently achieved his big dream of becoming an
Air Force commander and having serious aspirations to becoming an early Chief
of Staff of the about to be born US Air Force would have been VERY careful.
He did not want to screw up with this hot potato that fate had tossed in his
lap.

2.  I think there can be NO serious conclusion that Ramey was "holding a
press conference" grounded in Neil's astute observations. A careful commander
like Ramey certainly would have gotten his "dog and pony" show better
organized and prepared. And gotten his staff to "spruce up" -- like HE did!

3.  If Ramey was going to "fake it" for a photo opportunity he would have
scrounged up easily identified "spare parts" from some RAWIN/MOGUL and not a
bunch of weird "out of this world" pieces that can't be matched up with the
RAWIN/MOGUL blueprints even 52 years later!  He NEVER would have risked some
inquisitive newspaper reporter questioning those weird "things" spread out in
the photos.  Even w/o computer enhancement the parts look unworldly!  And
Ramey's stars would have twinkled out!  Poof!

4.  The urgent and unprecedented action of General Ramey to rush that same
night right over to radio station WBAP and to go on the air live with his
"weather balloon" announcement surely must have been "damage control" to
defuse the ROP, which he knew would be showing up in every newspaper in the
world the next morning under the front page banner of "General Ramey Examines
"Flying Saucer" Wreckage".  Ramey knew that his action certainly would
subject the AAF to ridicule as he now was having to ADMIT that his command
had made a giant faux paus.  The last thing that a military general wants to
have to do is to have to say "oops!" "Sorry, guys, my new command just blew
it!  We couldn't tell a flying saucer from a common weather balloon!"  Does
anybody challenge ANY of the above statements or what to add to this list?
Thanks to Bond Johnson.

Stan Friedman responds: "People seem to be forgetting that CIC Cavitt went to
the crash site and brought back wreckage as well, the night of July 7, 1947.
Col. Blanchard was NOT his commander.  He undoubtedly notified his people in
Albuquerque who would have notified Washington, DC.  Clearly the wreckage was
not of a plane under Col. Blanchard's command.  It thus became an
intelligence or counterintelligence problem.  In addition there were spotter
planes at the base who would have easily noted the wreckage from the air and
conceivably could have landed out there first thing in the morning on July 8.
  Don't forget General McMullen's call to General Ramey taken by Colonel
DuBose.  I too, doubt there was really a press conference. I do think it was
clever to divert attention from Roswell to Fort Worth."  Thanks to Stan
Friedman.  Editors Notes: There are about a 100 witnesses who claim they saw
fantastic metal/plastic materials at the Roswell crash site.  Photos taken of
the debris under high resolution show half inch thick materials with
hieroglyphic like markings.  The message in General Ramey's hand speaks of a
crashed craft and bodies.  Roswell may include parts of a Mogul balloon, but
it also contains other wreckage.  So in a sense everyone is right, so I urge
all Ufologists to stop arguing and investigate.  It is really a shame there
are no funds for real scientific investigation.  If you would like your name
to go down in history consider funding this research.  Neil Morris is the
primary researcher and some of his work can be seen at: www.filersfiles.com
and http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/

NASA ABANDONS SEARCH FOR MARS POLAR LANDER

PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - The $165 million mission to Mars has officially ended
in failure has NASA's has given up hope for saving the mission.  The Jet
Propulsion Laboratory 's craft was scheduled to touch down on December 3,
1999.  No signal has been received from the craft.  The craft was sent to
help search for life on the planet.  Most missions to Mars are a failure
while overall NASA missions including those to Mars are 90% successful.
Perhaps the bacteria found on Mars has grown up and they don't like us there.
  NASA keeps on claiming they are reviewing all possibilities and will
continue to seek an explanation for the failure of their last two probes. The
orbiter was lsot in September.  Our satellites and shuttles are observing
UFOs; the Phobus 2 satellite took a photo of one.  I'm happy to give NASA a
briefing on the data we have obtained.  I suggest they examine the SSTs
48.75, 80, 84, and 96 shuttle film for the possibility that there is life out
there.  I would be happy to present a briefing.  I also suggest you include
some UFO investigators in your examination of the loss of your last two
craft.  John Schussler or Dr. Bob Woods both former experts in aviation and
space would be my choice.

UFOCAT 99 UFO DATABASE

UFOCAT 99 is the latest version of the database begun during the Condon
Committee study in 1967 by Dr. David R. Saunders.  It contains over 111,500
citations (some UFO reports contain multiple citations). It exists as a
modern relational database in MS Access 97, and comes with the Access 97 run
time system on the CD-ROM. The CD-ROM is available for purchase for $59.95
from either Arcturus Books, the Center for UFO Studies, or Sun River Research
Inst. (http://matrix.crosswinds.net/bow/~ufocat/) It requires 100 megabytes
of free disk space to install on your computer.
Visit the website for the latest research using the UFOCAT 99 database.  New
this week will be a number of charts showing the relationship between the
occurrence of UFO reports and sidereal time!  Thanks to Don Johnson Drdonj5219

BEFORE YOU BUY OR SELL A HOME SEE MY FREE REPORT --
All real estate agents are not the same?  Some real estate agents or sales
representatives are part timers and inexperienced.  Others are experts with
an excellent experience and capabilities.  When you are selling or buying
your home, you need to make sure you have the best real estate agent working
for you before you make any important financial decisions on one your biggest
investments!  Remember, the majority of people do not know the right
questions to ask, and what pit falls can cause major problems.  Picking the
right real estate agent can be a wonderful experience, and picking the wrong
one can be a big mistake that can waste your time and cost you thousands!
Find out, "What you need to understand before hiring any real estate agent!"
These are the questions that many agents do not want you to ask.  Learn how
you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs.  To get a free copy
of this report, just call (609) 654-0020 or e-mail us at Majorstar@aol.com.
We can also help you with your own or corporate Worldwide Relocation to
Australia, Benelux, Canada, Cayman Islands, England, France, Guam, Hong Kong,
Israel, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Papua New Guinea,
Philippines, Puerto Rico, and all 50 states of the United States.  We also
have help with associates that speak languages other than their native tongue.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports
subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I recommended you for
membership.  Filer's Files is Copyrighted 2000 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved.  Readers may post items from the Files on their Web Sites provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of
issue that the item appeared.  Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com.
Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish.  Please state
if you wish to keep your name or story confidential.











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   Jan > Jan 21

                         Bennewitz's Report To APRO

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:17:27 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:44:47 -0500
Subject: Bennewitz's Report To APRO


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:57:00 -0700
 >From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@pobox.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Hi Roger,

I want to ask you and the list a question unrelated to the last
thread. I followed the Linda Howe, Agent Richard Doty, Dulce
Canyon, Christa Tilton, New Mexico State Police, sightings by
USAF Air Police within Manzano Canyon, and of course, Paul
Bennewitz for many years. I don't think I remember seeing
Bennewitz's report to APRO. Have you, Roger? I'd like to see
that.

I also would like to learn more about the frequencies, types of
waves (wavelenghts, waveforms) and a lot of other data. Is that
of interest to you Roger? Or am I asking things that wander into
that area where the Air Force said Bennewitz  was tuning into
something very deeply classified from Manzano. And they used a
sidekick who pulled a dark shroud over his head, who took an
active part in ruining Paul Bennewitz and Thunder Scientific Co.

That sidekick ruined his reputation as a ufologist for his noble
purpose of "burrowing into the hive to find out who was
operating it on deeper levels and find out what they knew" - as
a UFO investigation. Bennewitz was in the way. Moore found out
the feds would not play, with Paul in the way, so he played
along, Paul had to be eliminated. A noble purpose.

What did Paul Bennewitz put in his APRO report?

Thanks,
Josh

Happy trails!











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   Jan > Jan 21

                       Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:54:48 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:48:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:13:05 +0800
 >From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >>To: <02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers :;>
 >>Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 6:55 PM
 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

 >>Source: space.com

 >>http://www.space.com/science/astronomy/comet_debris_000118_wg.html

 >>Comet Debris Rains on Spain

 >>posted: 08:54 am EST

 >>18 January 2000

 >>MADRID, Jan 17 (Reuters) - At least ten melon-sized iceballs
 >>that have slammed into Spain in the last week are probably
 >>debris from comets, not human excrement as first suspected, a
 >>Spanish scientist said on Monday.

 ><snip>

 >http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/ap01-19-134018.asp?reg=EUROPE

 >Falling ice enigma in Spain starting to smell fishy

Dear Sharon, Errol Bruce Kanappy, Al and Listers;

Please, may I comment on this stuff as comment is required?
Thank yous, yous are all so very kind.  And I might add that
yous has always been nice to Gesundt.

 >ASSOCIATED PRESS

 >MADRID, Spain, Jan. 19 - Spain's great ice mystery is beginning
 >to look like a prank.  Around 30 chunks of ice are said to have
 >dropped from the sky since Jan. 8, some the size of basketballs,
 >often in gloriously sunny weather, and just about every Spanish
 >region has taken a hit.

This is obviously begining to sound like a conspiracy on the
part of the Spanish Government to cover up the obvious, Giant
Pelican Poop and Tinkle.  The Spanish Government are (or is that
"is"?), well, whatever, the Spanish Government ain't stupid.
Not much, anyway. They know full well that Giant Pelicans
pooping and pishing (or tinkling, as you wish) can be a hazard
to your health.

And they are aware that the Spanish Peoples often mistake these
giant birds for UFOs.  So, rather than confuse the people with
the truth, they just started this rumor, hoping that the press
in their infinite wisdom, and the people in their infinite - uh
- whatever, would believe that what they were seeing is Giant
Pelicans, not UFOs.  The poop and tinkle were merely bird
stuff.  But no, they hadda screw the conspiracy all up by this
attempted deception.  Dopeys.

 >The precipitation has picked up so much in the past few days
 >that scientists said Wednesday they had collected enough samples
 >and would not accept any more.

Well that makes sense.  Who the hell wants all that poop and
tinkle all over the lab.  Do you know how that smells after it
defrosts?  Woof!

 >The Superior Council for Scientific Research urged people who
 >find suspect frozen matter to double-wrap it in plastic and keep
 >it in a refrigerator. The council is conducting chemical
 >analyses and has promised to report initial findings on Friday.

That makes sense. Wrap it and put it in the fridge, so it can
melt slowly.  Don't put it in the freezer.  And did you notice
the brass of that council, calling themselves "Superior?"

 >In the meantime, chemists in Valencia did some checking
 >of their own. They say they don't know what the chunks are,
 >but they know what they are not.

Hell, I coulda told 'em right off if it were poop or even
tinkle.  All you gotta have is a schnozola... schozolla?
Whatever.

 >They are not human waste expelled from airplanes, as
 >had been speculated, because there is no evidence of
 >microorganisms that would be present in urine, the University
 >of Valencia team said.

Maybe these people had been drinking Gripple, at which point,
nothing would be alive in that slop.

 >They found that a sample collected Saturday in the town of
 >Meliana contained sodium chloride, or table salt, and gypsum,
 >which is chalk. Both are very earthly, which weakens another
 >popular argument - that the chunks may come from the tail of a
 >comet.

Of course.  Everyone and I do mean _everyone_ knows that salt
and chalk are found nowhere else but right here on the good old
center of the solar system.  Just like "us."

 >But scientists quoted in newspapers say there are several
 >puzzling things about the chunks. First, a chunk of ice falling
 >from a plane would smash into many pieces, but the ones found so
 >far have been intact.

Well, it could've been hard ice, couldn't it?

 >Also, if this were a natural phenomenon, the size of the ice
 >chunks should vary. But most have been the size of basketballs.

Maybe it was alien ice cubes, to go with Gripple, which they
drink a lot of. And of course, alien ice cubes are made in
special alien molds.  And they come out really hard.

 >Then there is the exponential increase in recent days - 20
 >chunks of ice found on Tuesday alone. At least half a dozen were
 >quickly proven to be practical jokes - including a seven-pound
 >block with perfectly sharp edges.

I told you about that already.  But I still find it really
difficult to imagine how them dudes got the ice there.  I mean,
did they rent a small aircraft with a large fridge in it?  And
then push the hard ice out the side door?  Or maybe it really
was pelicans and they pooped and tinkled whilst really high.  In
the air I mean. And the stuff froze on the way down.  Huh?

The moral of this story, the moral of this tome, is that one
should never be, where one does not belong.  Meaning, methinks,
that pelican poop, pelican tinkle, ice from the sky, the answer
to the question of God the Universe and Everything, matters not
one dot.  Unless you guys are really hard up for a dose of
something to say on the subject of UFOs and related stuff.

Hell, I would almost prefer to hear from Dennis Stacey than this
stuff.

Well.... almost anyway.

J. Jaime (High Meee) Gesundt, Ph.D.P.P&T
Doctor of Philosophy in Pelican Poop and Tinkle







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   Jan > Jan 22

                            Buffs Baffled By UFO

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 02:33:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 02:33:10 -0500
Subject: Buffs Baffled By UFO




Source: Chicago-Sun Times

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/ufo19.html


Buffs baffled by UFO

January 19, 2000

It is certainly a UFO.

It is being called a close encounter of the first kind.

But don't expect E.T. to be phoning home just yet.

That's because all that sci-fi-like jargon does not necessarily
mean the enormous triangular object spotted drifting silently
through the crisp night air over southwestern Illinois two weeks
ago is from outer space.

"To prove something is an alien spacecraft requires a piece of
it, requires the aliens to land and say `Here we are,' " said
Mark Rodeghier, scientific director of the J. Allen Hynek Center
for UFO Studies, based on the Northwest Side.

"You can't prove something like this is an alien spacecraft
without some extraordinary piece of evidence."

But so far, it definitely fits the "unidentified flying object"
label--because no one seems to know what it was.

Experts are baffled by the object seen cruising over six towns
in the Belleville area about 4:30 a.m. Jan. 5.

UFO sightings are not uncommon in Illinois, although all but a
handful wind up being easily explained by earthly means. What is
unusual about the Downstate object is that as many as four
police officers and one civilian in four different towns
reported seeing it.

"The witnesses are excellent to unimpeachable," said Peter
Davenport, director of the Seattle-based National UFO Reporting
Center. "They don't seem to have any motive for misleading us.

"In my conversations with them, generally they just seem to be
level-headed, no-nonsense types of individuals who were just
doing a job and happened to stumble into something that
morning."

And all described pretty much the same thing: A craft shaped
like an arrowhead, about 100 feet long, two stories tall, with
bright lights on its tail and underside.

"While I was sitting there I observed a very large flying object
coming from a southward direction," Millstadt Police Officer
Craig A. Stevens reported on the police department's Web site.
"The object was flying very low from 500 to 1,000 feet, and was
flying very slowly.

"The object was making no noise. I could only hear a very
low-decibel buzzing sound. Then the object began banking to the
northeast direction, and continued to cruise away from me toward
the area of [the nearby town of] Dupo."

Stevens took a photograph of the object but believes his
Polaroid malfunctioned because of the cold. The photograph
posted on the Web site, millstadt police.homepage.com, just
shows a few lights in a dark background.

Also on the site is a sketch Stevens drew, showing a triangular
object with a series of lights on its concave back.

Davenport said he interviewed both Stevens and an officer from
Lebanon, a town about 30 miles east of St. Louis. Three other
police officers reportedly saw the craft, but Davenport has not
spoken with them.

He said the officer from Lebanon told him the craft had bright
red lights that "radiated so much light in the sky it was
similar to the Japanese rising sun symbol."

Davenport said the officer told him the craft passed over his
stopped squad car before streaking off "at warp speed"--about 8
miles in 3 seconds.

Davenport declined to say if he believes the craft is from
another planet but said "the object that has been reported
appears to be grossly incompatible with any kind of terrestrial
aircraft that I am aware of."

The speculation Downstate has included more earthly
explanations, ranging from a government test of a top-secret
stealth blimp to some new aircraft flying out of nearby Scott
Air Force Base.

Even big-time UFO buffs have to admit that it's possible the
mystery craft was a top-secret, man-made experiment. The Stealth
bomber, for instance, was test-flown in the Midwest for eight
years before the Pentagon unveiled it.

During that time, local UFO societies got dozens of reports of
black delta-shaped ships zooming overhead, said Forest Crawford,
an Illinois UFO researcher.

Not that the government is about to admit it, if in fact it was
involved.

A spokesman for Scott Air Force Base says personnel there know
nothing about the UFO. Then again, if it was a classified
military project, "I can't imagine that we would know," Lt. Col.
Allan Dahncke said. "If we did, it wouldn't be so secret."

Rodeghier said he has no doubt the federal government has
stealth blimps for military uses or drug interdiction cases, but
he is not convinced that that is what was hovering over
southeastern Illinois.

"The question is what would the federal government be doing
flying this over East St. Louis on Jan. 5 at 4:30 in the
morning?" Rodeghier said. "On the other hand, if you are looking
for something saying this is an alien spacecraft, there isn't
much evidence for that either.

"It didn't move very quickly, it didn't do anything unusual in
terms of its motion, nobody saw little creatures in the windows
on it--all it did was fly over the town and just keep flying
away."

Still, the sightings are close encounters of the first kind, a
designation created by Hynek, the late Northwestern University
astronomer who founded the center and wrote The UFO Experience
in 1972.

A close encounter of the first kind is a sighting where an
unidentified object comes close enough for witnesses to see some
details. In a close encounter of the second kind, the object
leaves some physical evidence, such as a burn mark on the ground
or a clear image in a photograph. The third kind involves the
sighting of an alien being on or near the object.

Investigation of such phenomena depends on which class the
sighting falls into, but Rodeghier said the first step is to
rule out conventional explanations--such as stars, planets,
streetlights, hoaxes and the like, which account for 90 percent
of the 200 UFOs reported in Illinois each year.

The next step is to look for more unusual--but still
earthly--explanations, such as blimps, stealth fighters and
other unusual crafts.

Rodeghier said the Downstate object is likely to remain a UFO,
rather than an IFO (identified flying object).

"If it is a government stealth blimp, we are unlikely to find
out," he said. "They are not likely to tell us."

Rodeghier, who earns his living teaching statistics and survey
research workshops, won't say whether he believes in aliens.
Davenport, a former Russian translator and college business
instructor, said he does--although he admits experts in
"Ufology" have failed to come up with scientific proof.

"But the significant thing about this is that human beings are
clearly witnessing things that by any human measure should not
be there," he said. "And that is happening over and over."


Contributing: Los Angeles Times









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   Jan > Jan 22

             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:02:29 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:29:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:54:34 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Armchair debunkers, while quite confident that the "Face" on
 >>Mars is a naturally occurring formation, have yet to defend
 >>their position with any sort of proper scientific rebuttal. The
 >>popular position on the matter is that the Face (and by
 >>inference the other anomalies in the region) is a "pile of
 >>rocks."

 >As far as the face is concerned we are all 'armchair
 >debunkers/believers' since none of us have actually been to
 >Mars. It makes no difference what part of the Earth you travel
 >to or who you talk to, you are still examining the same data.

You ignore the professionals whose training equips them to deal
with an inquiry like this: digital image specialists,
geologists, etc.  Your dichotomy between "debunkers" and
"believers" is false (not to mention overused).  I have made it
clear again and again that _nothing_ need be taken on faith.  I
have attempted to show that this is an open mystery.  I'm
certainly not a "believer" in any sense.  I simply think we need
to pursue this issue.

 >The first batch blurred giving the appearance of a face.

Blurred?  Not really.  In fact, the Viking frames were quite
clear.  The Viking images were of compartively low resolution;
this is not the same thing as being "blurred."  They provided a
wealth of data that allowed reconstructions to be made using a
technique called "shape from shading," which showed the Face to
be three- dimensional and more facelike than thought.

The results from shape from shading and other digital procedures
have been verified by the MGS image.

 >The second batch much clearer.

Clearer, but from an angle that showed hadly any of the right side of
the Face.  In the proper orthorectified model, the right side is
interpolated using a program that takes the average of the available
pixels to produce an estimation.

The results: symmetry is over 90%, consistent with the data from
Viking.  The Face didn't change its shape overnight.  What did
change between 1976 and 1998 was the lighting angle; the MGS
took its angle shot while the sun was coming from below the
Face.  The resulting effect is precisely the same effect you get
when you shine a flashlight under your chin: your face looks
superficially different to those looking at you.

Of course, your face hasn't really changed shape.  All of your
facial features line up exactly where they should be.

This is precisely what has been observed in the MGS image.  At
first take it looks unfamiliar, but when you examine a properly
rectified photo (not NASA's warped TJP enhancement, which I and
many others have already addressed), everything lines up.  The
Face, sure enough, looks like a face. Whether or not this is due
to its being manufactured is a whole other question.

 >I don't know about the rest of you but I have eyes that work.

 >I do not need a scientist to tell me I am looking at a mountain
 >and a scattering of rocks.

A "mountain," huh?  Interesting.  Even geologists who think the
Face can be explained prosaically identify it as a knobby mesa.
The Face formation, regardless of its origin, is less a
"scattering of rocks" than a single rock, or "knob."  This
effectively eliminates the "seeing faces everywhere" debunking
line; when we look at the Face, we're not seeing disparate
features and then "connecting the dots," as we do when we talk
about the Man on the Moon.

All of the facial features under analysis are right there, in
one place, coexisting on the same unusual landform.  The Face,
whatever it is, is neither a "mountain" nor a "scattering of
rocks."  Perhaps you should consult an eye doctor...?

 >Look on the bright side, one day we will indeed go to Mars. And
 >on that day you will have your answer depending on whether you
 >except it or not that is.

Here we go with the belief vs. skepticism bit again.  I have
addressed this already (see above).

Mac Tonnies








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   Jan > Jan 22

                             Bovine Intervention

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:35:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:35:39 -0500
Subject: Bovine Intervention

http://www.metroactive.com:80/metro/slices-0003.html


For the Week of January 20-26, 2000

Bovine Intervention

High-powered research team tries to get to the bottom of cow
mutilations

By J. Douglas Allen-Taylor

Are extraterrestrial aliens swooping down on the cattle ranches
of our Western states, pouncing on unsuspecting cows, cutting
out their vaginas and other interesting body parts, and carrying
them back to their home planets for weird science experiments?

The National Institute for Discovery Science isn't ready to say
yes, but they're not throwing out the possibility, either. The
privately funded research organization is conducting a serious
study of what it calls the "controversy regarding the alleged
connection between cattle mutilations and UFOs."

"We've been able in a few cases to rule out predators,
scavengers and infectious disease, and we've been able to show,
using veterinary pathology, that sharp instruments were used on
these animals. That's as far as we're prepared to go," says NIDS
deputy administrator Colm Kelleher. "Who's using the sharp
instruments, why they're using them, we have no idea. In most of
the cases there has been an absence of vehicle tracks around the
scene. We don't know what that means. A lot of ranchers have
reported a lot of unusual activity in the sky to us, but we're
not in a position of drawing a cause and effect between UFOs and
animal mutilations without more evidence. There's not a smoking
gun, so to speak."

At first glance, it's easy to dismiss the folks at NIDS as a
bunch of, well, nitwits. Not counting people who have chosen to
isolate themselves from humanity by several hundred miles of
desert, who actually believes that extraterrestrials are cutting
up our cows? And why, of all the locations on earth for a
national headquarters, did this organization's management choose
Las Vegas?

The last time we associated extraterrestrials with Nevada's
gambling capital, they were zapping peace doves and singing
backup vocals for Tom Jones in Tim Burton's Mars Attacks.

But these people are serious. The organization's founder, Robert
Bigelow, is a successful national business developer, the owner
of Budget Suites of America. Kelleher, his second in command,
holds a Ph.D. in biochemistry. One member of the organization's
Science Advisory Board once served on the Manhattan Project,
which developed the atomic bomb; another is the provost of the
University of Nevada at Las Vegas; and a third, former Apollo
astronaut Edgar Mitchell, was the sixth man to walk on the moon.

And they conduct serious investigations.

In one report on a mutilated cow by a NIDS investigator studying
a 1998 incident in northeastern Utah, the organization alleged
that the cow's left eye and ear had been removed, an "unusual,
formaldehyde-containing blue gel-like substance was found on the
eye, the ear and the anus of the animal, its heart was shredded,
and though no fetus was present, it tested positive on two
different pregnancy tests."

Kelleher says that this is one of perhaps a half-dozen
cattle-mutilation cases NIDS has documented in its four-year
existence that cannot be explained by so-called natural
phenomena, such as scavengers or human poachers.

Lest anyone wish to distance themselves from the issue by
several hundred miles of parched desert, NIDS has received "lots
of reports from Northern California" that the organization has
not been able to investigate (NIDS hotline: 702.798.1700.)

"Ninety-five percent of the calls involve cattle," Kelleher
says. "But occasionally we hear about a horse, or an elk, or a
buffalo."

According to the NIDS website, missing body parts of dead cattle
include lips, tongue, skin and muscles of the lower jaw, rectum
and/or genitalia (vulva, vagina, sometimes the entire uterus),
penis, scrotum (with or without testicles), eyeball (with or
without eyelids; usually only one, on the upper side, when the
animal is lying on its side), tail, mammary gland (the whole
udder or teats only) and ears. An online graph indicates that
the most commonly reported missing parts are rectums and
vaginas.

Another mutilation investigator, former Alabama police officer
and now Bay Area resident Ted Oliphant III, talks in a 1997
article on his website about a dead cow found in Red Bluff
(Sonoma County): "It was found missing teats from the udder, its
jaw had been stripped and an ear was missing. Then it happened
again, and again and again. By the time the first year had
passed, the Bartons had lost four head of livestock." Oliphant
attributes the mutilations to a government conspiracy rather
than alien invaders.

But according to the Idaho Falls Post Register,
animal-mutilation investigator Linda Moulton Howe, author of the
book An Alien Harvest, believes that extraterrestrials are
definitely behind the cattle killings. "I've talked to dozens of
eyewitnesses who have seen silver discs landing in their
fields," Howe is quoted as saying.










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   Jan > Jan 22

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #335

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 05:56:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:54:40 -0500
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #335


Apology to MW #335 (For January 22, 2000)

I've said, "it ALL comes down to you," how YOU perceive YOUR
stars. As tiny points of distant light, or *them* more near than
far? It's what YOU think that matters as you make your feelings
known. Won't you accept your lot in life, believing you're
alone? Alone in all the cosmos? Alone to contemplate? Alone to
go unwitnessed as you seek some pointless fate? Alone in sad
indifference? Alone to count your beads, alone to be . . . oh,
good or bad -- or something in between. Alone to count your
blessings? Alone to feel cursed? Alone to be respected, glad, or
disrespected -- hurt? Alone in satisfaction, or alone to be
without? Alone in suffered silence, or alone to scream and
shout?

Alone in stunning vastness we would BE anomaly. We would be mere
freaks of nature in some grand futility. Alone in matchless time
our candle sputters in a wind we shall not know the source of,
though we make believe -- pretend. Alone we have no measure.
Alone we make no sense. Alone we are a bubble set to pop in sad
pretence. Alone we've no authority. Alone we come up short.
Alone, there is temptation to believe our own reports. Alone we
have no reason to behave as would be best. Alone's the lower
standard, so we fail every test. Alone, it's like we have no
point. Alone, we are forlorn. Alone, we are as good as dead.
Alone, we're truth suborned.

It just won't make a shred of sense, pretending we're alone. It
staggers ones credulity if that's what you propose. Life would
seem to find its way; that's what it does on Earth. It's found
in fiery fumaroles, or upon some snowy perch. It somehow lives
through ANY strife, be it asteroid or ice. It finds its way, and
it survives by paying ANY price. Given all its grand success,
right here on planet Earth, I've reasoned that it's just no
stretch that, elsewhere (?), we've no dearth.

Life, if NOT space faring, is as thick as fleas on dogs, vermin
gassed beyond indifference by their errant *human* gods. Life
has found a way, it seems, through all the sturm and drang, and
will have sensed, at last, the sky -- beyond, the song it sang.
Time is just so damned immense, and bigger every DAY is the
space that would enclose it -- all the eggheads write and say. I
find it too damned reasonable, when I understand its depth --
that if, in fact, we ARE alone, we flirt with slow-rot death.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

I've said it before, I know, but even if we WERE alone (and with
certainty given the historical, anecdotal, physical, and
photographic evidence), it would make much more sense to conduct
our affairs as IF we were NOT alone.

We'd treat each other better. There would be more open
toleration and cooperation. We'd SEED the asteroid belt, and
make it a living ring around its star. The Earth becomes a
respected garden. Mars, and perhaps a few moons of Jupiter and
Saturn support an efficacious humankind. We'd be happier.

Restore John Ford.

--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 22 January>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.









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   Jan > Jan 22

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:12:33 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:08:11 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:12:33 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:50:24 -0600
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Ed Gehrman
 >>>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:37:31 -0800
 >>>Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:26:46 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Previously, I offered:

 >>>>Bob Shell and Kodak have never looked at one single frame of
 >>>>camera original with the alien on it.

 >>>>The only film examined with the alien on it is crummy dupe film.

 >>Actually, I may be in error, here, Ed. I'd have to dig through
 >>the archives but I don't think that Bob has even seen DUPE film
 >>with an image of the alien on it.

 >Once again the 'Alien Autopsy' has become tiresome. I'll post
 >what sits in the in-box here and that'll be an end to it -
 >unless some startling new revelations are presented.

 >Michael Lennick, back on the 11th of this month sent me the
 >following. Posted to the List it has been totally ignored and
 >seems to cover the crux of the matter:

 >>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:51:26 -0500
 >>From: Michael Lennick <michael@*****.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Steve Johnson?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:54:50 +0000
 >>>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>>Subject: Steve Johnson?

 >>>Dear colleagues,

 >>>Does anyone happen to have a snail mail or e-mail address for
 >>>US special effects artist Steve Johnson?

 ><snip>

 >>However, had we proceeded, the coup-de-gras would probably have
 >>been my own examination of the footage, which revealed it to
 >>have been mastered at 30 frames per second - not 24.

 >>Spottable by any casual frame-by-frame glance at the footage.

 >>There are no repeated frames.

 >>24 fps film, when transferred to 30 fps video, requires every
 >>5th frame to be repeated.

 >>This suggests either a film mastered at 30fps, or a video master
 >>treated to look like old B&W reversal stock - both of which we
 >>do all the time in current production, but neither of which were


Hi, EBK!

Yes, I agree this is getting tiresome about AA.

Regarding the post by Michael Lennick about doubling frames for
transferring to video; actually every 4th frame is doubled, not
5th. However this is only the case when it is transferred by a
flying spot scanner such as a Phillips or Rank-Cintel transfer
unit and only if the film were transferred at 24 frames per
second. This would mean that it would nave to be shot at 24 also
for normal motion.

On the other hand, if the film were transferred on a regular
telecine (which I doubt) then frame doubling would not be
present as a five bladed shutter and variable speed motor on the
projector allow the 24 frames to be "stretched" to 30. What
would be noticeable would be "frame recombination's"; i.e. one
frame sharing screen time with another to create an additional 6
synthetic frames. Telecine transfers are harder to spot than
Rank transfers. If this project were produced in England, then
both the film and video would be 25 fps, further complicating
the issue.

I did notice Lennick's post, however, I doubt that the AA film
(if it exists) would have been shot at 24 fps in the first
place. Lennick makes a good point. However, there is more than
one way to transfer film to video and until we know the frame
rate and transfer method, then the debate will continue, I'm
afraid.

Take care,

Roger Evans
Houston, Texas








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:45:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:37:19 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Errol,

I hope you let this through. If you curtail discussion, we'll
never reach a closure on the AA. Please let this take a natural
course; it'll die when there's no more energy for it. I won't
press the matter but let's keep this going for awhile. I
believe there are others on the list who agree with me but
aren't as hardheaded or sure of themselves as I am. I also
realize that you agree with my critics. Have you read the
debris material discussion? Thanks, Ed


To the list and all kind responders:

There's no burden of proof on anyone, just seventeen minutes of
footage that we can all analyze at our leisure. It's available
to all who wish to view it and best approached with an open
mind. There are ample reasons to do so:

Nothing in the footage has been proven historically
inconsistent. The doctors seem to be real doctors. Not one of
the special effects experts has been able to recreate the
creature or anything resembling the creature or any part of the
creature. Many have talked about how easy it would be, but no
one has succeeded. Why haven�t they? Because it would be very
expensive and difficult and probably impossible. One one has
explained how the hoax could have happened and there are no
witnesses to the event.

There is not one ounce of proof that Ray had the motive,
opportunity, resources, talent or historical knowledge to pull
this off.

Ray Santilli and I have never met,(except through email ) He has
never paid me $ for anything. I happen to believe Ray is telling
the truth about the purchase of the AA; and the Cameraman's
version of events and Bob Shell's story are persuasive. ( Bob's
last communication to this list about the AA was still positive)
There is no convincing evidence that they are lying. There is
much confusion about the film and whether its duped (whatever
that brings to mind) or just a video or whether any real film
exists at all. I've listened to all the arguments presented on
this list although you'll be hard pressed to find a consistent
version. They are overwhelmingly nasty to Ray. I don't find them
convincing...but they've accomplished their function. Most folks
agree: the AA is a pile of crap! Who needs to give it serious
consideration? Look at the reaction to my remarks; such a united
front. I suppose I should take cover from the incoming
exclamations but I'd like to add a few more observations and
then I'll hunker down.

Below are what I consider relevant quotes. I think they sum up
the situation from my side of this stream consciousness:

Bob Shell:

My reason for offering to help in this matter was that it was
obvious from the documents I saw that Ray Santilli was not going
to the right people at Kodak. Over my many years working in the
photo industry I have developed a good working relationship with
many of the technical staff at Kodak in Rochester, and I knew
just which channels to go to for information on 16 mm film
dating.

And this:

I have been hard at work on this film. I have now physically
examined a section of the film, a section showing the "autopsy"
room before the body was placed on the table, but clearly
consistent with the later footage. The film on which this was
shot is Cine Kodak Super XX, a film type which was discontinued
in 1956-57. Since the edge code could be 1927, 1947 or 1967, and
this film was not manufactured in 1927 or 1967, this clearly
leaves us with only 1947 as an option.

Ray Santilli:

Volker is one of the greatest extroverts you could ever wish to
meet, he collects anything of real value, he is wealthy and has
been a business associate and friend of mine for many years.
That's how I know him. That's why I turned to him when I needed
money.

I still maintain that the story of the film's acquisition is
true, certain non-relevant details were only changed to stop
people getting to the cameraman. Yes, the trip to Cleveland was
1992, Yes during that trip I met Bill Randle but he was one of
many people we met. Yes during that trip I met the cameraman and
NO the cameraman's name is not Jack Barnet, I have always made
it clear that the name had been adopted to protect the
cameraman's real name.. In hindsight I could have handled the
situation a little better... by not saying anything about the
manner in which the film was acquired. And this:

I have relayed the contents of Kent's article to the
cameraman.For the avoidance of doubt, I can state quite
categorically that the last person the cameraman is going to
place any confidence in, is an ex-military serviceman. Of
course, the outcry from the skeptics will be "I told you so".

As far as I am concerned, in the present climate the cameraman
will be doing himself and his family a disservice by going
public. The phrase "A lamb to the slaughter" comes to mind.
However good his credentials he will be torn apart limb by
limb..... Yes he is old school, and I am certain that his only
real regret is that he sold the film in the first place, it is
something that I know he will always be ashamed of.

A Discussion of the Debris

I have been very influenced in my thinking by a person who spent
hours analyzing the debris. Even though he still has doubts
about the footage, he stands behind his original analysis and
conclusions. I�m the editor for the next issue of FLATLAND
magazine. http://www2.flatlandbooks.com/flatland/

We plan to include two articles on the AA. Below are excerpts
from one. If anyone wants the entire article, which I believe is
excellent, please contact me.


I-BEAMS DETAILS

An I-beam has two flanges that are connected by the web. The
first anomalous detail is found at the root portions of the
I-beams. The root is where the web meets the flanges at a right
angle. What I do not see at these locations on the I-beams is a
radius. There would be a radius at that point (the root) to
prevent cracks from forming. Any material that I know of, that
has a crystalline structure, will develop cracks if two planes
meet at right angles. I am assuming from the appearance of the
break in the I-beams that the material has a crystalline
structure.

The second detail is the thickness of the web in relation to
the thickness of the flanges. I have not seen an I-beam that
has a web that is as thick as these, as compared to the
thickness of the flange faces. I have never seen anything that
resembles the manufacturing technique used in the construction
of these I-Beams. I know of no manufacturing process that could
produce the multitude of details found on the I-beams.

  (here he gives detailed descriptions of the possible processes)

Conclusion: I do not see how the debris seen in the Santilli
footage could be manufactured by any of the processes I've
mentioned. If any of these processes could be made to work, or
if this type of detail could be produced with some other type of
process, then far more money could be made producing real
products than would ever be made from an Alien Dissection hoax
film.


FILM DETAILS

There is a small I-beam that has been broken. This break goes
right through one of the symbols and is not straight. It would
have been straight if it had not broken in the middle of one of
the symbols. You can clearly see that the fracture line starts
straight down the face of the web of the beam until it gets to
the raised symbol. The fracture line then shifts just to the
right of a raised portion of a symbol , skirts the raised
portion of the symbol and then jumps back to the left and
continues down to the next flange face. The path of least
resistance creates these dynamics. When the fracture line
encountered the raised symbol, which can be thought of as
increased thickness , it shifts away from the thicker material.
It is a very small detail, minute, but this is the type of
detail that says this is a real manufactured I-beam. I cannot
imagine someone planning to put this small detail in a hoax
film.


There are a lot of melted looking pieces of debris on the table.
The large blobs of debris material seen on the table look like
puddles that formed when the debris material melted. The curious
thing about some of the smaller melted pieces is the shape they
took after they cooled. What catches my eye is the thickness of
the puddles. The surface tension was strong enough to counter
gravity making some of the smaller pieces thick.

To understand what I�m saying, think of small drops of water in
a clean pan. If the drops are small you�ll have a fairly round
droplet. But as you increase the size of the droplet by adding
more fluid, it starts to flatten out and turn into a puddle
because gravity pulls on the center of the droplet and forces it
down. A water droplet soon turns into a thin puddle. In order to
keep the appearance of the debris droplets round and thick, the
material would have to have a very high surface tension or be a
really light or be really viscous. There are consistent
appearance characteristics in the the way these droplets melted
and cooled.

There are large puddles of melted looking debris. One appears to
be a melted I-beam because it has a hemispherical ridge running
through the center of it. This detail matches hemispherical
ridges found on the flange face of all the other I-beams. In
another this ridge detail is missing.

The raised symbols indicate some type of writing. Each symbol
has a myriad of detail and appears to be machine perfect. The
symbols are located on the web of the I-beams and are the same
symbols on both sides except they are in reverse order. I cannot
think of a harder detail to undertake from a time and money
standpoint if this is a hoax. The symbols do not look phony to
me.

The detail that puzzles me most is the lack of mass that the
panels and I-beams exhibit when they are moved. No material I
have handled or seen handled that would be this light, would
exhibit the properties of rigidity, reflectivity and the ability
to show fine detail. I get the impression from watching the film
that these things are so light that the only air resistance
impedes their movement.

One soldier handles the large I-beam by squeezing the flanges
between his thumb and fingers; this tells me that this I-beam is
very light. Here is a problem for the hoaxer. The bigger I-beam
would have to be made out of some type of foam to make it as
light as it appears. Foam that is as thin as that on the large
I-beam flanges would flex if it was twisted, squeezed or handled
like the soldier does in the film. The material is so
reflective, any bend would be easily noticed, especially if it
were pinched between two fingers at the very edge of the flange
faces. This debris appears to be extremely stiff.

The panels exhibit the same weight qualities as the big I-beams.
One of the interesting things about the panels is that they are
all different. If they are props then the prop maker had to make
three different molds, two for the undamaged panels and one for
the damaged panel.


GENERAL OBSERVATIONS


The panels with indentations for six fingered hands are the most
obvious link to the dissection footage and its six-fingered
creature . While the dissection shows how the bodies are put
together; the debris shows the workings of the entity's mind.

I am impressed by the reflectivity of all the debris and the
panels. Why would they make something so reflective? I see two
initial options to explain this reflectivity. The first is that
the debris material naturally happened to have a high
reflectivity. The second option would be that they wanted the
debris to be very reflective, so they picked a highly reflective
material to make the debris.

Lets think about the second option. The creature has very large
eyes and pink skin and very dark contact lenses. I am assuming
that these contacts are sun glasses for a world that is brighter
than its home environment. These details indicate that this
creature came from somewhere with less light than our planet.
What requirements might a low light environment place on a
technologically advancing species? By looking closely at the
panels we find that there are twenty raised buttons per hand or
forty raised buttons per panel. When the hands are placed in the
hand positions of the panels, there are then fourteen raised
buttons in constant contact with each hand. The raised buttons
are situated so that eight buttons touch the base of the fingers
and the palm of the hand only. These buttons are not there to be
pushed because they are situated in the palms and at the base of
the fingers. If they are not there to be pushed by the hand then
they must be there to push against the hand.

When we look at the I-beams we see raised symbols and keyed type
detail such as the raised hemispherical ridge that runs along
the middle of one of the flange faces. These details tell me
that the creatures are very tactile and use a form of Braille.
The panels are not only keyboards, but also appear to be a
tactile interface.

The debris footage looks as if it were shot in a tent. The tent
is seen to bellow in and out. The tent pole with the gas mask
hanging from it moves when the walls of the tent move. This
detail would indicate the tent was setup outside and not on a
sound stage.

The soldier holding the debris for the cameraman has large sweat
stains around his armpits. This would tie in with the
cameraman's story that states that the film was shot in the
desert in the month of June.

The debris materials look manufactured because they have a
radius at the ends of the flanges, machine produced raised
symbols, fracture lines and highly uniform reflectivity. What
these small details argue for is a unique material with special
properties. The material appears to melt, but it does not appear
to be burnt. I do not see any oxidation on the melted material.
When the material breaks, it does not bend or shatter. I do not
see anything that is bent. I see only fractures along a jagged
line. One puddle of material has the same reflectivity as the
unmelted material. How do I know? The reflection of a man's face
can be seen in this puddle.


Conclusion

The "Santilli Footage" consists of three different films that
include the debris footage, the tent footage and the dissection
of the creature. Every detail that is put in a hoaxed film costs
money and increases the risk of exposure as a fraud. If this
film were a hoax, there would be as little detail as possible.
There is enough detail in the debris footage to convince me that
it would be expensive to produce. If this film is a hoax, it is
well researched, elaborately scripted and therefore, an
expensive undertaking.








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   Jan > Jan 22

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:42:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:52:49 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:45:13 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >To the list and all kind responders:

 >There's no burden of proof on anyone, just seventeen minutes of
 >footage that we can all analyze at our leisure. It's available
 >to all who wish to view it and best approached with an open
 >mind. There are ample reasons to do so:

<snip>

The choice is _not_ merely between the film footage is genuinely
related to an alien crashed saucer and an alien body _or_ it is
a hoax created by or for Ray Santilli.

It could have been sitting on some shelf in Hollywood or
elsewhere for a long long time. Ray then becomes somebody taking
advantage of public interest and gullibility.

As I pointed out in the entire chapter devoted to AA in my book
TOP SECRET/MAJIC, just about everything Ray told me in our first
conversation turned out to be a lie.

I did later meet with him twice and also with his
representatives. I did spend hours with Dr. Bruce Maccabee
reviewing the footage. We each were interviewed at length by
Kiviat's people. They used 30 seconds of my interview and none
of Bruce's in the Fox show.

The film was shown in 40 countries. Money not truth is the name of the game.
Enough already.

Stan Friedman








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   Jan > Jan 22

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:56:34 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:57:05 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:45:13 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:37:19 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

Previously, Ed wrote:

 >Nothing in the footage has been proven historically
 >inconsistent.

This is not true. The improper use of containment suits is one
of the most glaring examples. I brought this up before and you
simply maintained that you couldn't conceive of how something so
obvious could happen.

 >The doctors seem to be real doctors.

This is not true. I've spent many hours in the operating room
early in my career documenting operations and other surgical
procedures on 16mm film. The techniques and methods presented in
AA are "Hollywood" versions of what an audience might expect to
find in an operating room; not what really exists.

 >Not one of the special effects experts has been able to recreate the
 >creature or anything resembling the creature or any part of the
 >creature. Many have talked about how easy it would be, but no
 >one has succeeded. Why haven�t they? Because it would be very
 >expensive and difficult and probably impossible.

This is not true. Name one special effects expert that has
attempted to duplicate the alien and failed. Tell us where we
can see the results. I work in special effects on a daily basis
and would like to study the attempts you speak of. If you can't
direct us to a web site, then how about a name and address so I
can talk to these "effects experts" that have tried in vain to
duplicate AA. Or is this another claim you've pulled out of thin
air?

More to the point: Just because I and others in the effects
field haven't spent out own time and money duplicating what is
seen in AA doesn't  mean that we can't do it. I simply do not
need to waste a single dollar proving to you what is obvious to
me.

 >There is not one ounce of proof that Ray had the motive,
 >opportunity, resources, talent or historical knowledge to pull
 >this off

Nonsense. Money is a powerful incentive. But I have to agree
with you that there is no proof that Ray has the talent or
historical knowledge to pull this off successfully.

Moving on you wrote:

 >(Bob's last communication to this list about the AA was
 >still positive)

Really? Bob's last statement is as follows:

"I have seen no compelling evidence that there is anything
extraterrestrial involved in this event at all."

Please explain how this is positive support that the alien and AA is
real?

Bob merely maintains that the film is old copy film. He has not
seen a frame of film (dupe or original) with the alien on it.
Read into Bob's statements what you want, Ed. The bottom line is
that Ray's expertise doesn't really come into play here because
Ray won't let him see anything of value. As I said before; The
Dead Sea Scroll is an important historical document. A copy is
worthless. But Bob doesn't even get to see the copy. Instead he
is given a blank piece of Xerox paper and told by Ray,"Well,
it's just like the paper that the Dead Sea Scroll was copied
on!". Where is the value in that?

And finally, you wrote:

 >There is
 >much confusion about the film and whether its duped (whatever
 >that brings to mind) or just a video or whether any real film
 >exists at all.

Ed, I really am not trying to be a smart ass. But the only
person confused about the issue of whether a dupe or original
exists is you. You constantly demand that everyone toe the line
and provide evidence to back up their claims or opinions. This
is not unreasonable of you to do so. So, I'll ask you some
reasonable questions:

Other than seeing AA on video -

Have you ever seen the original film projected?

Have you ever seen a frame of the original film with the alien
on it?

Have you ever seen the dupe of the film projected?

Have you ever seen a frame of the dupe film with the alien on
it?

Have you ever met the cameraman face to face?

Have you ever talked to the cameraman at all?

How do you account for the lack of repeated frames that would be
present if the film were transferred to video? (see Michael
Lennick's excellent post on the subject)

And, of course, we'll all be waiting for you to provide the
names of effects experts that have tried to duplicate the alien
in AA and have failed.

Until we meet again,

Roger Evans








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:23:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:01:32 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:45:13 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >I hope you let this through. If you curtail discussion, we'll
 >never reach a closure on the AA. Please let this take a natural
 >course; it'll die when there's no more energy for it. I won't
 >press the matter but let's keep this going for awhile. I
 >believe there are others on the list who agree with me but
 >aren't as hardheaded or sure of themselves as I am. I also
 >realize that you agree with my critics. Have you read the
 >debris material discussion? Thanks, Ed

<snip>

Ed,

Let's apply the 'KISS' principal (Keep It Simple...).

The crux of the matter:

ALL, and I mean ALL, of the discussions _since_ the diffusion of
AA film come from the _simple_ fact that Mr. Santilli has
systematically refused to have the film analyzed.

You can capitalize and underscore the preceding paragraph and
stick it to your wall.  Better: have a neon shaped out of these
words, close the lights and _read_ them.  Even better: make a
diapo, shoot the diapo thrue a strobe light and play some Pink
Floyd. Loud.

The AA film has become gospel for some people despite the fact
that Mr. Santilli is a false prophet.  The advocates of the AA
film have pushed the cognitive dissonnance so far as to make AA
and Santilli two separate issues. This leaves me auto-censored.

I suggest you take all the arguments for the Santilli film in
the past years and shake them very well.  What do you get?

Crme Santilli.

Voil.

You have been creamed my friend.

Let's keep it simple: ask Ray to, ah yes, "show me Ray".

This has not happened. It will not happen either. You know it.
Everybody knows it.

Everything else is virtuality.

Serge Salvaille








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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:03:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:02:29 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:54:34 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Armchair debunkers, while quite confident that the "Face" on
 >>>Mars is a naturally occurring formation, have yet to defend
 >>>their position with any sort of proper scientific rebuttal. The
 >>>popular position on the matter is that the Face (and by
 >>>inference the other anomalies in the region) is a "pile of
 >>>rocks."

 >>As far as the face is concerned we are all 'armchair
 >>debunkers/believers' since none of us have actually been to
 >>Mars. It makes no difference what part of the Earth you travel
 >>to or who you talk to, you are still examining the same data.

 >You ignore the professionals whose training equips them to deal
 >with an inquiry like this: digital image specialists,
 >geologists, etc.

I most certainly do not ignore the professionals since I am a
professional 2D/3D graphic artists myself. There have been many
occasions when I have been presented with original video footage
for analysis, sometimes with some surprising results I might
add.

I have studied all the data from Cydonia and my conclusion is:
you're wasting your time, it's just rocks.

May I ask what you do professionally?

 >Your dichotomy between "debunkers" and
 >"believers" is false (not to mention overused).

Well you are the one who said debunkers in the first place,
personally I wouldn't have used that word. I just quoted you
then put in the exact opposite, I suppose 'for and against'
would have been more appropriate.

 >>I do not need a scientist to tell me I am looking at a mountain
 >>and a scattering of rocks.

 >A "mountain," huh?  Interesting.  Even geologists who think the
 >Face can be explained prosaically identify it as a knobby mesa.
 >The Face formation, regardless of its origin, is less a
 >"scattering of rocks" than a single rock, or "knob."  This
 >effectively eliminates the "seeing faces everywhere" debunking
 >line; when we look at the Face, we're not seeing disparate
 >features and then "connecting the dots," as we do when we talk
 >about the Man on the Moon.

Actually it's the 'Man in the Moon' and I'm glad you brought
that up because it is my 'professional' opinion that 'The man in
the Moon' is exactly what we are looking at.

 >All of the facial features under analysis are right there, in
 >one place, coexisting on the same unusual landform.  The Face,
 >whatever it is, is neither a "mountain" nor a "scattering of
 >rocks."  Perhaps you should consult an eye doctor...?

Perhaps we should all consult opticians, since none of us are
seeing what you see.

To be honest I really hope you are right, life on this boring
old ball of mud would suddenly become sooo interesting wouldn't
it.

Dave.








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   Jan > Jan 22

                            Re: AA Film 'Experts'

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:07:50 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:05:38 -0500
Subject: Re: AA Film 'Experts'


 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:13:05 -0800
 >From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >Subject: Re: AA Film 'Experts'
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:37:13 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>To: updates@globalserve.net
 >>Subject: AA Film 'Experts'

 >>Dear Colleagues,

 >>I would once again respectfully like to ask for you kind
 >>assistance. As many of you already know I am writing a new book
 >>on the 'alien autopsy' film. Part of the book will deal with
 >>professional commentary from people qualified in camerawork,
 >>archival film, anf film and photpgraphic experts in general.

 >>I already have copies of the excellent research conducted by
 >>Kent Jeffrey and the contacts he made with three former military
 >>cameramen, plus information from Clive Tobin, Bob Shell, Theresa
 >>Carlson and Sam Sherman.

 >>I would therefore like to ak if anyone knows of any other
 >>professional in this field who has commented on the film. If
 >>you do, could you please contact me direct at:
 >>pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >>Please forward this onto other interested parties or newsgroups,
 >>and thank you once again for your kind assistance.

 >Phil,

 >I wonder if your book will list UFO UpDates as contributing
 >authors and technical advisors?

 >;o)

 >Dan


Dear Dan,

I think you are a litle premature here but I will be listing EBK
and UFO UpDates as one of those who have assisted us along with
many other peole, some on this list, many that are not. As the
book will be published in Canada first I will ensure that EBK is
the first to receive a review copy.

All the best,

Philip.









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                 TMP News: News Briefing - January 22, 2000

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:02:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:11:34 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing - January 22, 2000


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 22, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.22.00



QUANTA
Science and Technology

Pentagon Now Developing Teleportation - The Next Scientific Realm
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/teleportation.html

Advanced Life Said to be Rare in the Universe
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/liferare.html

Gliding into Orbit
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns222249

Mars: The Bermuda Triangle of Space
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/spacetriangle.html

Complex Organic Molecules Form Quickly in Old Stars
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/molecules.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

Buffs Baffled by UFO
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/ufo19.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:39:09 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:13:38 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:45:13 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >I hope you let this through. If you curtail discussion, we'll
 >never reach a closure on the AA. Please let this take a natural
 >course; it'll die when there's no more energy for it.

Ed,

It just occurred to me that closure has been reached some time
ago and that the only energy keeping this on comes from the ones
who refuse to recognize this fact.

Please suggest a course of action that could help settle the
matter, provided you have an open mind to accept a settlement.

I am just looking for two and a half feet of the original film
with images on it.  Two and a half feet would equal to a small
step (for Ray) but a giant step for ufology.

Some will argue that the film is much too precious to
"sacrifice" any of it. Let me remind you that the Turin Shroud,
a Holy Relic that was supposed to come from Christ's grave, was
submitted to dating evaluation a couple of years ago (late 80s I
believe?). The scientists cut out something like a 10 inches by
2 inches piece of the material.

Conclusion: a 13th century fraud.

Guess what: many people, in knowledge of this fact, still
worship the damn (?!) shroud.

Rings any bells?

Serge Salvaille









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                        1903 Sighting in Akron, Ohio

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:53:34 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:15:36 -0500
Subject: 1903 Sighting in Akron, Ohio


Greetings list -

From: http://www.ohio.com/bj/news/docs/009185.htm

HISTORY REVISITED: Strange light puzzled many in 1903 Akron

The term UFO had not yet been coined on Jan. 22, 1903, when the
Akron Beacon Journal reported that a mysterious light -- a "ball
of fire" hanging low in the night sky -- was terrifying
residents in Munson's Hollow and keeping "timid people indoors
after dark."

Munson's Hollow was in Akron's Old Forge area in the Little
Cuyahoga River valley just north and east of downtown.

Police were called to investigate several sightings "the last
few nights" of a bright object the size of a man's head that
remained perfectly still until searchers got to within 50 yards
of its location. Then it disappeared, only to reappear when
searchers left.

"All believe that it is some supernatural body," the newspaper
reported. But the police guessed it was the work of mischievous
boys.

-- Russ Musarra

Akron Snapshots will appear each day this year in observance of
the city's 175th anniversary.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com









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                       William J. Birnes Press Release

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:45:21 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:17:11 -0500
Subject: William J. Birnes Press Release


Greetings list -

From:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-22-200
0/0001121161&EDATE=

Government Cover-Ups Revealed By William J. Birnes

LEESBURG, Fla., Jan. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- The following was
released today by author William J. Birnes:

Do you believe in government conspiracies? Did today's
technology come from aliens? William J. Birnes, co-author of
"The Day After Roswell," thinks so.  William J. Birnes is a New
York Times best-selling author who has written books on
business, psychology, computer science and technology.

If you haven't read "The Day After Roswell" yet, it is Colonel
Philip J. Corso's first-hand experience with Area 51. Col. Corso
was an intelligence officer in Army Research and Development at
the Pentagon, who directed the Army's reverse-engineering
project using pieces from the crashed alien space craft. From
this program the American industries of fiber optics, lasers,
integrated circuit chips, and super-tenacity fibers was born.

Mr. Birnes put Col. Corso's riveting first-hand experience into
writing, and since then has become publisher of UFO magazine,
one of the most popular sci-fi magazines today.

Mr. Birnes will be open for a live discussion on Saturday,
January 22 on the internet from 10 p.m. EST until 12 a.m. EST at
http://www.FlyingSaucers.com's chat room. FlyingSaucers.com is
one of the most visited (no pun intended) sci-fi sites on the
web.

Whether you are a skeptic, a true believer, or think of aliens
and Santa Claus in the same fashion, you have asked yourself the
same question everyone asks in their lifetime.  Are we alone?

SOURCE William J. Birnes
Web Site: http://www.flyingsaucers.com

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com










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                CPR-Canada News: Upcoming CBC Programs On '99

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:19:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:20:10 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News: Upcoming CBC Programs On '99


CPR-CANADA NEWS
The E-News Service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

January 22, 2000

_____________________________



MEDIA
Current and Upcoming Media Interviews, Programs and  Articles

Upcoming  CBC Programs On 1999 Canadian Crop Circles
And Cattle Mutilations

There are two upcoming CBC television programs, to be aired
back-to-back on Wednesday, January 26, 2000, dealing with two
very different kinds of unexplained Canadian phenomena.

The first, Country Canada (http://www.tv.cbc.ca/country_canada),
will cover some of the 1999 Canadian crop circles (a very
prolific year!), including the work of Dr. W. C. Levengood and
the BLT Research Team (http://www.bltresearchteam.net). 7:30 pm
PT.

Also, The Fifth Estate examines recent cattle mutilations in
Canada, featuring the investigations of researcher Fern Belzil.
8:00 pm PT.


_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the electronic news service of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon
Research International), providing periodic updates with the
latest news and reports, as well as information on CPR-Canada
-related news and events. CPR-Canada News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by CPR-Canada, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International

Main Office

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4  Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522

_____________________________


� Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 2000











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   Jan > Jan 22

                 NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:23:15 -0500
Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

Anyone else heard of this one ?


Thanx
Dan
UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

---

NASA finds evidence that the Bible is TRUE!!!

For all you scientists out there and for all the   students who
have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of
the Bible...here's something that shows God's awesome creation
and shows that He is still in control.  Did you know that the
space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth"
in the Bible is true? Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis
Engine Company in Baltimore Maryland and a consultant in the
space program, relates the following development: I think one of
the most amazing things that God has for us today happened
recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt,
Maryland.  They were checking the position of the sun, moon, and
planets out in space where they would be 100 years and 1000
years from now. We have to know this so we won't send a
satellite, up and have it bump into something later on its
orbits. We have to lie out the orbits in terms of the life of
the satellite, and where the planets will be so the whole thing
will not bog down.

They ran the computer measurement back and forth over the
centuries and it came to a halt. The computer stopped and put up
a red signal, which meant that there was something wrong either
with the information fed into it or with the results as compared
to the standards.  They called in the service department to
check it out and they said, "What's wrong?" Well, they found
there is a day missing in space in elapsed time. They scratched
their heads and tore their hair. There was no answer.

Finally, a Christian man on the team said, "You know, one time I
was in Sunday school and they talked about the sun standing
still." While they didn't believe him, they didn't have an
answer either, so they said, "Show us".  He got a Bible and went
back to the book of Joshua where they found a pretty ridiculous
statement for any one with 'common sense.' There they found the
Lord saying to Joshua, "Fear them not, I have delivered them
into thy hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee."
Joshua was concerned because he was surrounded by the enemy and
if darkness fell they would overpower them. So Joshua asked the
Lord to make the sun stand still! That's right-"The sun stood
still and the moon stayed---and hasted not to go down about a
whole day!"

The astronauts and scientists said, "There is the missing day!"
They checked the computers going back into the time it was
written and found it was close but not close enough. The elapsed
time that was missing back in Joshua's day was 23 hours and 20
minutes-not a whole day.  They read the Bible and there it was
"about (approximately) a day".  These little words in the Bible
are important, but they were still in trouble because if you
cannot account for 40 minutes you'll still be in trouble 1,000
years from now. Forty minutes had to be found because it can be
multiplied many times over in orbits.

As the Christian employee thought about it, he remembered
somewhere in the Bible where it said the sun went BACKWARDS.
The scientists told him he was out of his mind, but they got out
the Book and read these words in 2 Kings. Hezekiah, on his
death-bed, was visited by the prophet Isaiah who told him that
he was not going to die. Hezekiah asked for a sign as proof.
Isaiah said, "Do you want the sun to go ahead 10 degrees?"
Hezekiah said "It is nothing for the sun to go ahead 10 degrees,
but let the Shadow return backward 10 degrees." Isaiah spoke to
the Lord and the Lord brought the shadow ten degrees BACKWARD!

Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes! Twenty-three hours and 20
minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in Second Kings make the
missing day in the universe! Isn't it amazing? Our God is
rubbing their noses in His Truth!  References: Joshua 10:8 and
12,13; 2 Kings 20:9-11 Forward this to as many people who would
think this is equally as cool.


UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

Dan's Magic in Michigan !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/magician

WetSet Diving Vacations !
http://www.wetset.com

Czars Nightclub !
http://www.czars.com

Dantronix !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/testwave.html









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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: clearlight@t-online.de (Josh Goldstein)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:11:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:25:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:00:29 -0800
 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Jim, what you posted is thoughtful but allow me to thicken your
"slim possibility" with a proposition.

 >>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:10:02 -0600
 >>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >>>From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >>>Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Hi everyone.

 >>>Below is an article forwarded to me by a colleague which I think
 >>>will be of particular interest to UFO UpDates subscribers.

 >>>Nick Balaskas

 >>>But a new book by two University of Washington scientists
 >>>contends that, contrary to popular thought, we just might be
 >>>alone and Earth might be unique, if not in the universe at least
 >>>in this celestial neighborhood.

<snip>

 >I should add that the forementioned scientists used this concept
 >of quick & easy population of an entire galaxy to argue,
 >following Fermi and his "paradox," that therefore no advanced
 >alien life exists within our galaxy, since we are uncolonized.
 >This of course involved the unspoken assumption that "genuine"
 >UFOs either do not exist or are not piloted by ETs. (Carl Sagan
 >tried to counter their argument by saying that any attempted
 >colonization of a galaxy would involve, on the average, a
 >stop-over time period of 100,000 years after reaching one
 >hospitable planet before embarking out to another star system in
 >search of the next favorable planet to colonize; hence he
 >believed or hoped it would take a half billion years to colonize
 >the galaxy, not just 20 million years, and by this time stellar
 >positions would continually be too scrambled to be able to
 >colonize more than just a local group of stellar systems. Hence
 >SETI could proceed on that basis.)

Carl Sagan's counter argument was within a very limited context.
For example, his "step time of 100,000 years" is only one of
many possibilities. Who is to say that they may not have sent
out seeding teams to many places that had potential at the same
time or within a limited number of years. Was Sagan thinking
they would hopscotch across the galaxy one by one?  With 100,000
years between jumps. We are talking aliens who would be far
advanced of us.

Their concepts, their entire cognition, would be way beyond our
current conception. Of course they could bring a planetary soup
of an entire biosphere they concocted for different planets with
varying environments. Planets lacking some of the many essential
elements necessary for our life on earth. Perhaps their instant
planet soups would be derived from the DNA of lifeforms from
their own planet or entirely new recipes concocted with many
species' DNA harvested on exploratory trips to newly found
planets of various environments. The lifeform DNA would be
documented by the environment it thrived in and its cohabitation
with other species. The planetary soup d'jour would consist of
many flavors, perhaps from many planets. A custom recipe of the
colony they wanted to create. Perhaps they would have advanced
seeding, cloning or reproductive capabilities so that next it
could be seeded with the highest form of life in massive amounts
able to well occupy the planet. This galaxy could thrive then.
The aforementioned is only one of countless imaginary theories
of reproduction and colonization of aliens who are far in
advance of human beings.

Carl Sagan performed great work. But he was somewhat of a
paradox to me. How could such a brilliant man and gifted
astronomer be a thoughtful toker of nature's weed, and instead
of having any form of support for the investigation of UFOlogy
be such an arch and diehard skeptic about everything in the
field except SETI?

 >It should also be added that from what was quoted from Ward &
 >Brownlee, they failed to allow that those rare ETs who do evolve
 >within our galaxy and have become far advanced over us may well
 >have seeded other favorable planets within the galaxy with an
 >appropriate mixture of lowly life forms, thereby greatly
 >shortening the time required for further evolution on these
 >planets towards intelligent life. It seems that "real"
 >scientists have been defined as those who assume that
 >intelligent life outside of the Earth cannot be more than a few
 >centuries more advanced than us, or that science & technology
 >cannot continue to develop much past our present level. To my
 >mind, a true scientist would not tolerate either assumption, but
 >would instead keep it in mind as an exceedingly slim
 >possibility.

 >Jim Deardorff

I don't remember who I am quoting but please remember that "In
an infinite universe infinitely anything is possible".

Josh Goldstein

Happy Trails










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                 Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip -

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:33:16 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:00:15 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip -


In my previous post to Ed, I made an error in the following
paragraph:



 >Bob merely maintains that the film is old copy film. He has not
 >seen a frame of film (dupe or original) with the alien on it.
 >Read into Bob's statements what you want, Ed. The bottom line is
 >that Ray's expertise doesn't really come into play here because
 >Ray won't let him see anything of value.


What I meant to write was

"_Bob's_ expertise doesn't really come into play here because
Ray won't let him see anything of value."


Sorry for the confusion EBK....

Roger Evans








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                        UFO ROUNDUP Volume 5 Number 3

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:10:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:10:31 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 5 Number 3




Source: http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/v05/rnd05_03.shtml

UFO ROUNDUP

Volume 5
Number 3
January 20, 2000

Editor: Joseph Trainor

Masinaigan@aol.com


SPAIN BOMBARDED BY GIANT CHUNKS OF ICE

For the past ten days, Spain has been bombarded by giant chunks
of ice. And the situation has scientists baffled.

On Tuesday, January 18, 2000, a large block of ice fell in the
small city of Albalat de la Ribera in Valencia province.

On Monday, January 17, 2000, a block of ice fell in the middle
of the seaport city of Cadiz, located 400 kilometers (240 miles)
southwest of Madrid, the national capital.

"The block of ice fell on La Palma street, in the popular La
Vina neighborhood (of Cadiz) around 3:30 p.m., according to a
brief communique issued by the Policia Nacional. The object,
being 3,750 cubic centimeters in volume, was collected by the
police prior to its transfer to the local precinct headquarters
to determine its weight."

To date, a dozen large ice chunks have fallen in Spain, three in
Valencia alone. Two have fallen in Andalucia (southern
Spain--J.T.), including one large chunk in the town of Tocina in
Sevilla province.

In Cadiz, the police were summoned by Jose Manuel D., a
pedestrian "who was walking down the street and witnessed the
icefall."

"The chunks of ice of unknown origin--the three latest yesterday
(Monday) in Valencia--have led the Consejo Superior de
Investigaciones Cientificas (CSIC) (Superior Council of
Scientific Investigations--J.T.) to create an interdisciplinary
task force whose goal should be conducting a comprative analysis
of the samples to determine if they have the same origin."

"Meteorologists from Spain's Instituto Nacional de Meteorologia"
in Sevilla, Murcia and Valenncia "have agreed that the
meteorological conditions were not propitious for the formation
of such ice masses."

The Instituto thinks "the ice may have fallen from spacecraft or
aircraft or may be the remains of cometary nuclei."

"Jesus Martinez Frias, a CSIC geologist who traveled to Valencia
to collect a fragment of the object that fell in that community,
was able to take the most recent of them," i.e. the one that
fell in Albalat de la Ribera.

Martinez Frias "will study the piece of ice at the Instituto del
Frio de Madrid. He admits his astonishment. 'I'm the most
startled one when it comes to this kind of phenomena. It's to
early to engage in a priori evaluations but everything points to
a cometary origin for these fragments.'"

One fragment was milky white, was estimated to have frozen at
minus 220 degrees Centigrade and showed traces of quartz
embedded within.

But not everybody buys the outer-space theory. "Javier Armentia,
director of the Pamplona Planetarium, finds it hard to believe
that they could be remnants from a comet's tail, also known as
'dirty snowballs.'"

"'I'm convinced that parts of this phenomenon are little more
than pranks. In other words, following the falls of one or two
ice fragments, there was a wave effect, similar to what happens
with UFOs,' he opines that it 'will be necessary to wait for the
ice analyses to be completed' " to discover if they are "'only
made of tap water.'" (See the newspaper El Mundo of Madrid for
January 19, 1999, "A scientific commission researches the
mysterious ice shower." Many thanks to Scott Corrales, author of
Chupacabras and Other Mysteries for the newspaper article.)

(Editor's Comment: Twelve ice falls in just over a week!? If you
hear any rumbling in Albany, New York, don't worry--it's not an
earthquake. It's just Charles Fort popping up in his pine box,
ready to take notes!)

UFOs SIGHTED IN ITALY AND IN NEARBY SARDINIA

On Tuesday, December 21, 1999, at 5:10 p.m., a bright UFO
appeared over Ischia province in Italy. The object first
appeared over Forio in the north- northwest sky, just above
trees and buildings. The UFO then flew over Casamicciola and
then moved between Mondragone and Castelvolturno. At one point,
the UFO hovered over a number of Italian military bases north of
Lago (Lake) Patria, including the Italian air force academy, the
Accademia Aeronautica Militare Italiana (AAMI)..

Later that evening, another or possibly the same luminous UFO
appeared over Mount Barano.

A third sighting took place shortly thereafter, with the UFO
between the mountain and Porto d'Ischia. Finally, it flew out
over the sea just south of Porto d'Ischia.

On Tuesday, January 4, 2000, at 4:32 a.m., a young man working
at the industrial park in Porto Torres, adjacent to the city of
Sassari on the island of Sardinia, "observed to the northwest an
intense luminous molten point of light that resembled the tail
light of an airplane. For two minutes, the object flared up and
then diminished to its previous intensity." (Grazie a Alfredo
Lissoni, Giuseppe Colamine e Antonio Cuccu di Centro Ufologico
Nazionale d'Italia per questi rapporti.)

THREE UFOs SPOTTED NEAR MOUNT WARRIGAL, AUSTRALIA

On Thursday, January 13, 2000, at 10:55 p.m., the eyewitness,
Jason, and his uncle were "returning from a fishing trip when
they noticed three pinkish-red objects travelling in vertical
formation with the lowest object slightly behind the other two."

At first the UFOs "were apparently stationary, with the lowest
object showing intermittent random pulsing. The distance between
the objects was approximately four fingers at arm's length, and
they held formation for the first 10 minutes" of the 20-minute
encounter.

"During the next 10 minutes, the upper two objects faded, and
the lowest lighted object started to 'skip' upwards and then
return to its original position. This was done four times at
approximately every 2.5 minutes."

"The speed of this object--as estimated by Jason who holds a
private pilot's license--was approximately 200 feet per second.
The bottom light was approximately 30 degrees above the horizon.
It was lost (from sight) when it moved behind a large cloud
base." (Many thanks to Diane Harrison and Doug Moffett of
Australian UFO Research Network for this report.)

UFO FLAP ENGULFS NORTH ISLAND OF NEW ZEALAND

UFOs appeared over New Zealand's North Island twice in recent
weeks--the first time on Boxing Day and again on January 10,
2000.

The first incident occurred on Boxing Day night, December 26,
1999, at 9:18 p.m. in Raglan, N.I., a small city 105 kilometers
(63 miles) southwest of Auckland. "A green flare was seen on the
west coast. The flare died before it hit the sea."

At 9:25 p.m., "a red flare alerted the Raglan Sea Rescue, which
searched the area but failed to find anything."

At 9:29 p.m., in Port Waikato, N.I., located 75 kilometers (45
miles) southwest of Auckland, there was "a report of a low green
flare" in the northwest over the Pacific Ocean.

At 9:36 p.m., in Warkworth, N.I., a small town 70 kilometers (42
miles) north of Auckland, "a resident reported multi-coloured
lights in the sky heading in the direction of Pakiri Beach." The
lights were last seen passing over the Dome (Mountain) Range.

At 10 p.m., residents in Army Bay, N.I. reported "orange
sparkling coloured flares to the north side of the Whangaparoa
Peninsula. The flare was reported to have ascended into the sky
before it came down."

At 11:30 p.m., residents of Tinopai, N.I. saw "'huge lights'
over the hills due north" of town.

On Monday, January 10, 2000, Mrs. J. went outside her home in
Tauranga, Welcome Bay, N.I. "at 10 p.m. to look at the clear
sky. Just after she had gone outside, she was aware of a
flourescent green light that was travelling from the east and to
a spot fairly nearly in front of her, when it stopped. It was
high up. The green object was larger than the stars which she
beheld. The total time was approximately 1/2 hour (30 minutes).
As it was a clear calm night, she was sure there was no wind."
(See the newspaper the Times-News of Auckland, N.I., New Zealand
for December 27, 1999. Many thanks to Murray Bott of MUFON New
Zealand and to the Tauranga UFO Investigation Group for these
reports.)

VIETNAMESE PRINCESS SAYS SHE REPRESENTS "THE HIDDEN MASTERS"

While sightings of the Virgin Mary have the Roman Catholics of
Vietnam in an uproar (see UFO Roundup, volume 5, number 2), a
mysterious "princess" is creating a stir in the Buddhist
community.

According to the South China Morning Post, the Communist
government in Hanoi has cracked down on the Long Hai Di Lac
(Vietnamese for Chinese Dragon Buddha Sect--J.T.) "Authorities
in Hanoi have fined members of the group for gathering in public
places after declaring their unregistered religion illegal.
Action was taken after three members starved themselves to
death, allegedly to save themselves from damnation when the
world ends next year."

Long Hai Di Lac, which has about 200 members, got its start in
the 1990s. Mysterious pamphlets were posted on the Giac Lam
pagoda in Thanh-Pho Ho Chi Minh (better known to millions of
Americans as Saigon--J.T.), the oldest Buddhist temple in
Vietnam, first built in 1744. Then similar writings appeared on
the Tam Quan gate at Ngoc Long pagoda in Hanoi.

They heralded the coming of Cong Chua Yeu Thuat, a
twenty-something princess who had been appointed the
representative of Cao Tang, one of the "Hidden Masters of Tong
Yao." (Since it's not on the map, I guess it must be the
Vietnamese Shambhala--J.T.)

As princesses go, Yeu Thuat is reputed to be a thoroughly modern
one. Some say she was an apsara (celestial dancer) in Cambodia.
Others claim she lives in the Tan Binh section of Saigon and
teaches martial arts. She is said to be very pretty, with long
hair down to her waist which she wears in a ponytail and has
appeared in Western blouses and slacks as well as the
traditional Vietnamese ao dai..

For now, though, the Buddhist sect and its "secret princess"
have gone underground, just like the Falun Gong in China. (See
the South China Morning Post for November 2, 1999. Many thanks
to Binh and Trinh, too.)

(Editor's Comment: Now there's a career path for the modern
woman. From apsara dancer to mistress of the martial arts to
emissary of the Hidden Masters. Feminism has come to Shambhala.
I wonder what old Count Saint- Germain has to say about that.)

AQU TRACKS MYSTERIOUS CREATURE IN QUEBEC

The Association Quebecoise de Ufologie (AQU) is investigating
the discovery of the footprints of an animal unknown to science
that were found near Three Rivers, Quebec, Canada in 1997.

According to AQU president Gilles Millot, on November 14, 1997,
Real Descoteaux and two other witnesses "decided to help a
friend who wanted to clear a snowmobile track in the forest.
After a few minutes of walking, the three witnesses saw a
strange animal print in the snow. It was totally unknown to any
of them. It looked like three fingers (digits--J.T.) with claws
and was eight or nine inches long."

Continuing on alone, Descoteaux walked into a clearing beside a
frozen swamp. "As he reached the clearing, he suddenly felt a
great heat coming from the ground. The heat then stopped as soon
as he stepped past the clearing, leaving only the cold air of
November to fill the void."

Later a second witness joined Descoteaux in the clearing. "And
then he felt the same sensation of heat coming from the ground
at the exact same spot. When the third witness arrived at 5
p.m., he too described a sensation of heat in the clearing."

"Three days later, they returned, but the snow had melted and
the footprint had disappeared." Descoteaux and the second
witness decided to inspect the area, anyway. "After walking 100
feet down a small stream, he was amazed to find five or six
footprints identical to the one they had discovered in the snow.
a few days earlier."

Descoteaux took many color photographs of the footprints and
showed them to Quebec provincial wildlife specialists. Millot
added, "These specialists could not identify the footprints and
were extremely curious about them."

In August 1999, Descoteaux contacted Millot and invited the AQU
to investigate the case.

On November 15, 1999, two years after the original discovery,
AQU team members and Yvon LeClerc, an authority on fossil
footprints, visited the site. LeClerc also closely studied the
photographs taken in 1997 "but he, too, couldn't identify the
footprints." (Merci beaucoup aux Gilles Millot y AQU pour ces
nouvelles.)

CHANDRA DISCOVERS VAST OXYGEN CLOUD IN SPACE

The Chandra X-Ray Telescope was launched in July 1999 to study
ancient astral events. During its time aloft, the $1.5 billion
orbiting observatory has made some surprising discoveries.

These discoveries were discussed on Friday, January 14, 2000 at
the annual meting of the American Astronomical Society in
Atlanta.

"The ring-shaped remnants of one such supernova--labeled
EO102-72--were studied on two occasions last fall by NASA's
powerful new Chandra X-Ray Observatory."

"When it blew up, the giant star, 15 to 25 times more massive
than our sun, was 200,000 light-years from Earth in the Small
Magellanic Cloud, one of the galaxies closest to our own Milky
Way." (One light-year equals six trillion miles--J.T.)

"The brilliant light from the starburst reached Earth about
1,000 years ago, and could have been visible to the naked eyes
of people in Australia or South America."

Chandra "carries an instrument called a high- energy
spectrometer that spreads out X-rays, much as a prism breaks up
a beam of light into a rainbow of different wave-lengths. it
recognizes each element, such as carbon, oxygen or iron by its
unique wavelength."

"The Chandra images show that about half the gas expelled by the
exploding star was oxygen--an unexpectedly high amount. Elements
such as iron and magnesium also were manufactured but in lesser
amounts."

"The oxygen from this supernova alone would weigh as much as 10
of our suns, nd would be enough to supply 1,000 solar systems
like our own, (astronomer Claude) Canizares said. The gas formed
inside the star where nuclear fusion of primordial hydrogen
gradually built up heavier elements, such as carbon, nitrogen,
oxygen, sulfur and iron."

"'Understanding supernovae helps us to learn about the processes
that formed chemical elements like those which are found on
Earth and are necessary for life,' said Kathryn Flanagan,
another MIT astronomer."

"'We have just seen a star rip its belly open and show us what's
inside,' Canizares told reporters. After the oxygen was 'baked
in the oven,' he added, it was 'made available to those of us
who like to take a breath.'"

"The manufacture of oxygen and other elements in stars continues
to this day. An enormous supernova exploded in 1987, and more
are expected every 25 to 100 years. The last in our own galaxy
was in 1602." (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for January
15, 2000, "Oxygen detected near supernova," page 5A.)

from the UFO Files...

1948: LAST FLIGHT OF THE STAR TIGER

Fifty-two years ago, on Thursday, January 29, 1948, the Star
Tiger, a luxury airliner belonging to British South American
Airways rolled down the runway, taking off on her transatlantic
flight to Havana, Cuba..

The Star Tiger was designated an "Avro, Tudor IV, Post War,
pressurized cabin Luxury Airliner," with four propellor engines.
The Tudor was a composite design, using the wings and engines of
the Avro Lancaster bomber, flown by the RAF in World War
II,..and a bulkier, roomier fuselage than the wartime bomber's.

"The Tudor IV had five emergency exits, carried three large
dinghies, one fitted with a radio transmitter,, and life belts
were stowed under the passenger seats and in the crew's
compartment."

There were 25 passengers and six crew aboard the Star Tiger. At
the controls was veteran BSAA pilot Capt. David Colby.

The first stage of the flight took the Star Tiger from London to
Santa Maria in the Azores. From there, she headed southwest
across the Atlantic. Next stop-- Hamilton, Bermuda.

But as Star Tiger headed across the ocean, she encountered "a
100-kilometer- per-hour wind" (60 miles per hour) from the
Americas. The Tudor's airspeed slowed to a crawl.

Precisely at 1 a.m. on Friday, January 30, 1948, Capt. Colby
picked up his microphone and sent a radio message to Bermuda.
"Still approximately 440 miles northeast of Bermuda and bucking
strong headwinds."

"Roger, Star Tiger. Keep us informed."

Everyone at the Hamilton tower watched the clock. Star Tiger had
enough fuel in her tanks to last until 3:15 a.m. If she hadn't
reached Bermuda by then, Capt. Colby would have to ditch the
airliner in the ocean.

"When the Tudor IV was reported overdue, Hamilton tower tried to
establish radio contact without success. Air-sea rescue
headquarters was alerted."

Star Tiger "was sufficiently pressurized and hermetically sealed
that, if undamaged, there would be time to allow everyone aboard
to get set free in the rubber life rafts she carried."

"The temperature of the water in the search area was about 65
degrees, meaning that there was a good chance for those managing
to get aboard a raft. Each life raft was equipped with a
survival kit which included a "Gibson Girl," a small
hand-cranked radio designed to be held between the knees. It
operated on the 500 kilocycles band and was generally limited to
a radius of 50 to a few hundred miles."

Running the search was Colonel Thomas D. Ferguson, commander of
the U.S. Air Force base on Bermuda.

"Two USAF (B-17) Flying Fortresses from Bermuda's Kindley Field
and another from MacDill Field, Florida were the first search
craft underway." They were soon joined by two B-25 bombers and a
C-47 transport plane from Mitchell Field, Long Island, N.Y.;
three U.S. Coast Guard PBY-2 amphibian planes; and 14 planes
from the Air Transport Command.

The U.S. Coast Guard also sent three cutters into the area--USS
Mendota, USS Cherokee and USS Androscoggin. It was the biggest
air-sea rescue operation of the 1940s.

And it turned up nothing. Neither the Star Tiger nor a debris
field was found floating on the ocean's surface. The airliner
had vanished.

Hours passed, and the weather worsened. Search pilots "reported
that the weather was stormy, with waves up to 40 feet high."

Then came a strange message from a steamship in the area, the
S.S. Troubadour. At the height of the storm, the crew had seen a
strange light in the sky. "Sighted low-flying plane with lights
blinking at 2:10 a.m., between Bermuda and the Delaware Bay
entrance."

Officials decided that it must have been one of the six
PanAmerican airliners flying that night. Even though the light
was heading in the wrong direction--to the northwest.

Things got even stranger. "Hope for survivors was revived as
amateur and professional radio operators from Halifax to Miami
reported picking up several radio messages in code that spelled
out the name 'Tiger.' Others reported hearing 'Star Tiger'
spelled out. The code messages were picked up on an
international channel for voice communication in an emergency;
however, voice was not used."

U.S. Navy and Royal Canadian Air Force officers "reported that
the signals were of an improvised code, in which someone
laboriously tapped out one dot for A, two dots for B, and so
on."

(Editor's Comment: It sounds like the code the Fox sisters used
to communicate with the spirit world back in 1844.)

"The signals were heard late Tuesday night, February 3 (1948),
and were not picked up during the day." This was four days after
the Star Tiger's fuel tanks had run dry.

Sophisticated radio direction-finders were put unto play in the
hopes of tracking the mysterious transmission. But it was not
repeated. That radio channel went silent.

The wreckage of the Star Tiger was never found.

On September 28, 1948, the UK's Ministry of Civil Aviation
issued its final report on the disappearance. In conclusion, it
stated, "In the complete absence of any reliable evidence as to
either the nature or the cause of the disaster to the Star
Tiger, the court has not been able to do more than suggest
possibilities, none of which reaches the level of even
probability. What happened in this case will never be known."

There is one curious postscript to the story of the Star Tiger.
Among the passengers aboard was Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham
of the Royal Air Force. In World War II, he "commanded the 2nd
Tactical Air Force of the Allies and was considered one of the
world's foremost authorities on the use of tactical air power."
As head of General Eisenhower's air operations in early 1945,
Sir Arthur compiled all of the reports on the "foo fighters"
(UFOs) seen by Allied forces in Europe. When the air marshal
disappeared aboard the Star Tiger, the information about UFOs he
carried around in his head vanished with him. (See the book
Limbo of the Lost by John William Spencer, Bantam Books, New
York, N.Y., 1973, pages 22 to 30.).

Join us next week for more UFO and paranormal news from around
the planet, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-- UFO
Roundup." See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on
their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the
newsletter and its editor by
name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.






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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:02:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:16:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


I've been reading this email list for several years. I find it
very entertaining and sometimes even informative, but I've never
felt the urge to get involved until I saw the treatment Mac
Tonnies was getting for having the temerity to post his
well-written and thoughtful messages about Cydonia. Enough is
enough.

Mac Tonnies has kindly been invited to shut up by a couple
people on this list presumably because they think the images
they've seen from JPL have somehow proved the "Face" is just a
pile of rocks. That conclusion is simply not correct.

Many have reached their irrevocable conclusions based soley upon
two improperly processed "enhancements" that JPL flooded the
media with immediately after the first Cydonia image was
acquired in April '98. And they were unbelievably bad
enhancements given that they were produced by scientists at JPL
and not by some third graders messing around with their Daddy's
computer.

The first "enhancement" was subjected to a high-pass filter that
removed most of the tonal variation from the image and made the
"Face" appear more like a depression in the ground (a
"footprint" as CSICOP mistakenly described it) rather than the
400 meter high landform that it is *known* to be. That first
enhancement also appears to have been embossed to make the
texture look much rougher than it actually is, helping to give
it that "pile of rocks" appearance.

In the second enhancement by Dr. Timothy Parker at JPL, the
tonal variation is about as good as can be gotten from the raw
image. It appears to be a "good" enhancement. It would have been
if Dr. Parker hadn't taken one extra step, stretching the image
out so that the craters are round, making it appear to be a view
of the "Face" looking straight down from above. This stretch
operation pushed the ridge corresponding to a "nose" off to one
side, making it look like a sculpture done by Picasso. In
reality, the "nose" ridge runs right down the center of the
"Face", ending in what appear to be two "nostrils," which were
not visible in the lower-resolution Viking images. Ironically,
Carl Sagan had made a big deal out of a dropped pixel in the
first Viking image of the "Face" that he thought people were
mistaking for a nostril, even though nobody but him seems to
have raised the question.

The simple stretching technique that Parker used works only on
two dimensional surfaces. It does _not_ work on 400-meter high
landforms. Consider what would happen to a picture of a sky
scraper taken with the camera line of sight at a 45 degree angle
from the vertical (the MGS camera's viewing angle). Stretching
the image won't give you a view of what the building would look
like when seen from above; instead it will make the building
appear to be lying on its side with its windows pointing up into
space.

Whether the "Face" is natural or not remains an open question.
There is much that supports the artificiality hypothesis in the
the MGS image, although nothing conclusive. While I think the
issue is still very much in doubt, there is no reason to be
discouraged, except by how NASA presented the image to the
public.

Rather than seizing upon these pitiful "enhancements" as proof
that the "Face" is natural, I would think people intersted in
UFOs, above all people, would instead wonder why NASA (or more
accurately, JPL) orchestrated this patently deceitful debunking
campaign. Personally, I think it's the result of a long
established government policy to discourage public interest in
UFOs, and by extension, anything to do with the possible
presence of intelligent extraterrestrials in this solar system,
now or in the past. The original rationale, of course, was to
prevent public panic and to keep false reports of UFOs from
flooding the nation's air defense system during the Cold War
(the Robertson Panel). This policy seems to still muddle on long
after any rationale for it has disappeared.

Some UFO researchers may feel it's best to go along with the
"scientific community's" position on Cydonia, since they have
enough credibility problems without it. Some Cydonia researchers
feel exactly the same way about the subject of UFOs, believe it
or not. I think that it would be more constructive to recognize
there is some common ground here. If the "Face" proves to be
natural, that's fine with me, but I think that UFO researchers
would hope that if it is proven so, it be done in the proper
manner, not by a government-run propaganda campaign. After all,
UFO researchers might get the same treatment themselves someday,
if they haven't already.

Lan Fleming







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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:34:01 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:17:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Perhaps we should all consult opticians, since none of us are
 >seeing what you see.


If you are looking at the JPL "enhancements," the problem is not
your eyes. The people who created them might benefit from
consulting an optician, though.









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                       Seeing Is Believing - Or Is It

From: Steven Miles Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:15:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:22:33 -0500
Subject: Seeing Is Believing - Or Is It


From: fort@onelist.com
Subject: [fort] Digest Number 262
Date: Sat, Jan 22, 2000, 4:03 AM


GEORGE JOHNSON ON SCIENCE:
UFOs: Seeing is believing - or is it?
By George Johnson

* What is a scientist to make of UFO sightings by reasonable
people?

Have you ever sat on a roof on a cold December night looking up
into the sky for flying reindeer? I have. Many readers have
asked what happened that Christmas Eve when my daughter Caitlin
and I set out to scientifically test the theory of Santa Claus.
Well, the bells on the roof jingled. They jingled off and on all
night, however, and however often I was sent to go look, I saw
no reindeer.

[The remainder of this article can be found at:
http://txtwriter.com/Onscience/Articles/UFOs.html]

George Johnson is a biology professor at Washington
University.\onscience@txtwriter.com







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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:18:29 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:24:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>You ignore the professionals whose training equips them to deal
 >>with an inquiry like this: digital image specialists,
 >>geologists, etc.

 >I most certainly do not ignore the professionals since I am a
 >professional 2D/3D graphic artists myself. There have been many
 >occasions when I have been presented with original video footage
 >for analysis, sometimes with some surprising results I might
 >add.

 >I have studied all the data from Cydonia and my conclusion is:
 >you're wasting your time, it's just rocks.

All of it?  That's an impressive feat, if true, and I'm not
saying I doubt you.  You've made the conclusion there's nothing
to it.  I can't argue with this, either.  But there are a lot of
people more qualified than either of us who _don't_ think the
issue is settled. Thus my interest.

 >May I ask what you do professionally?

My BA is in English.  I've had one book (fiction) published.
Back in high school I won a NASA essay contest on Mars two years
in a row through the Space Science Student Involvement Program,
so I got to take my paper and multimedia presentation to Cape
Kennedy and Huntsville's Space and Rocket Center, where various
project scientists offered suggestions.  The paper was all about
Cydonia, and while reactions were mixed (especially among the
various other regional winners!), my paper met with a surprising
degree of support.

I should add that nowhere in my paper did I "conclude" anything
about Cydonia other than that it deserved a closer look and was
a good site for a manned mission.  My position hasn't changed.

No, I am not a scientist by training or profession.  I've never
claimed to be a planetary geologist or a digital image
specialist.  But I'm familiar enough with the territory to have
an opinion and be able to back it up, even if the other party
doesn't agree.  What one does for a living has very little to do
with a potential extinct civilization on Mars unless what you do
is image processing _of the Cydonia region_.

Since you have reached a conclusion, I think it is fair to ask
to see your evidence.  Any peer-reviewed papers?  Anything about
Cydonia? If so, put them in the public arena for the edification
of us nut-cases.

Finally, let me present my position on this matter yet again
since no one seems to want to pay attention:

I am not claiming that the Face or anything else on Mars is
artificial, only that it is anomalous enough to deserve a closer
look.

I think anyone who can ignore formations such as the Cliff, Fort
and not be at least a bit curious are arguing from an emotional
standpoint, not a scientific one.

Mac









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                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:36:53 +1100
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:41:49 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961


UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961 (Scared Cat)

Date:  Winter 1961
Day:   ?
Time seen: 9.45pm
Name:  May (not real name)
Location: Tenterfield NSW (Country/Rural)
Given to Investigator:  'UFO Jo', AUFORN, Ipswich, QLD

Report:

Shape: Lights
Size:  Large
Objects: Several
Colour:  Green and White
Sound:  None - Unusual Smell
Speed:  ?
Duration:  10 minutes
Direction: ?
Witnesses: One + Cat

Report:

This event took place inside the house with the owner seeing
nothing. 'May' is a widow living by herself with her cat.  On
this particular night 'May' was washing up, and without any
warning her cat arched his back, fur standing up and began
spitting and growling.  'May' could see no reason why her cat
was acting this way, but he was frightened.  The cat wanted to
go outside, 'May' opened the door and he couldn't get out quick
enough.  A short while later 'May' called her cat in, but he
intended to stay outside.  Even trying to coax him didn't work.
During the night 'May' was woken by an odd smell. Although it
did not smell like smoke she quickly got out of bed in case a
part of the house was alight.  She found nothing.  Yet the smell
pesisted.  She went back to bed and found it hard to sleep.  The
following morning 'May' realised the smell remined her of
Sulphur (her late husband used it on his large green and white
lights in the paddock behind her back fence.  At the time she
did not take much notice although could recollect a few months
before she had seen the same lights but in a different area of
the paddock just as the sun was going down.

AUFORN, QLD


Thank You 'UFO Jo' for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD



Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:17:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:47:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 > Hi All & Dave,

 >>I most certainly do not ignore the professionals since I am a
 >>professional 2D/3D graphic artists myself. There have been many
 >>occasions when I have been presented with original video footage
 >>for analysis, sometimes with some surprising results I might
 >>add.

I have spent many a night around Dave's place studying UFO video
tapes, and UFO movie files amongst others. And I have had the
chance to see Dave at work with the Graphic side of things, I
can only say amazing work. ( I wish I had his set up) I wish he
would post his web site address for all to see!

 >I have studied all the data from Cydonia and my conclusion is:
 >you're wasting your time, it's just rocks.

There is another word for it Dave, only I can't remember the
spelling?









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                   Re: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:19:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:50:35 -0500
Subject: Re: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting


 >Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 17:52:06 -0500
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: NIDS & Illinois Police UFO Sighting
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Source: SIGHTINGS

 >>http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/nids.htm

 >>NIDS Ongoing Investigation Into
 >>Major Illinois Police UFO Sighting

 >>From Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net>

 >>Complete Ongoing NIDS Investigation At:

 >>http://www.accessnv.com/nids

 >>1-18-2000


 >>The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) 24-hour hot
 >>line (702-798-1700) received a report at 3:46 am Pacific time on
 >>1/5/2000 from a police officer at Milstadt, Illinois. The
 >>officer reported an unidentified flying object seen by a
 >>business owner and several police officers at Lebanon,
 >>Millstadt, Shiloh and Dupo, Illinois. The report to NIDS came
 >>approximately two hours after the sighting.

 >I would like to congratulate Colm Kellaher and the NIDS
 >investigating team on their quick response and excellent work in
 >interviewing witness on the scene. I also congratulate them on
 >publshing their results to date on their web site, where you can
 >find the "raw" interview data.

 >By reading the interview of the first witness (as opposed to the
 >summary of the interview) I learned that he had seen an object
 >with many red lights and other lights. This caused me to recall
 >a strange case I investigated 18 years ago... a December 1981
 >sighting near Coventry, Connecticut. which inolved two
 >independent groups of witnesses.

 >One witness took a series of pictures of what appeared to be
 >three objects traveling in a roughly triangular formation.

 >The photos show wavy or jagged lines of light and sometimes dots
 >of light in a wavy line.

 >The continuous lines of light correspond to steady lights which
 >were moving during the time the shutter was open. The dots of
 >light generally indicate moving lights which flash briefly as
 >they move.

 >One particular image from these photos stands out: it shows a
 >roughly triangular or Christmas Tree shaped collection of 32 red
 >and white dots of light (9 red, 9 white and the rest being
 >dimmer reddish or orange).

 >It was this image which came into my mind as I read the
 >description given by the first witness.

 >I might also point out that this sighting began with the
 >observation of three pairs of white lights observed as the
 >objects approached the witnesses. That is, each object
 >apparently had two side-by-side white lights at the front.

 >As the objects went away from the witnesses they could see
 >multiple colored lights. Calculation based on estimates of
 >altitude and distance indicate that the objectw were about a
 >mile from the nearest witnesses and were traveling slowly (100
 >mph or less). The only noise detected was a slight hum.

Colm & List members,

Do you think the Radio Towers mentioned by Witness 1 (Southern
part of Highland), and the Radio Antennas mentioned by Witness 2
(at Summerfield) could play a significant part in this sighting
or not?  Have the owners/operators of this radio equipment been
interviewed yet concerning any anomalous disturbances occurring
on Jan 4. or 5th?

Todd Lemire
--
"What you believe isn't important; it's what you find out by
research and investigation that's important."

George Fawcett








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               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:38:04 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:54:28 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

 >Anyone else heard of this one ?

 >Thanx
 >Dan
 >UFO Folklore !
 >http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

 >---

 >NASA finds evidence that the Bible is TRUE!!!

 >For all you scientists out there and for all the  students who
 >have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of
 >the Bible...here's something that shows God's awesome creation
 >and shows that He is still in control. Did you know that the
 >space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth"
 >in the Bible is true? Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis
 >Engine Company in Baltimore Maryland and a consultant in the
 >space program, relates the following development: I think one of
 >the most amazing things that God has for us today happened
 >recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt,
 >Maryland. They were checking the position of the sun, moon, and
 >planets out in space where they would be 100 years and 1000
 >years from now. We have to know this so we won't send a
 >satellite, up and have it bump into something later on its
 >orbits. We have to lie out the orbits in terms of the life of
 >the satellite, and where the planets will be so the whole thing
 >will not bog down.

 >They ran the computer measurement back and forth over the
 >centuries and it came to a halt. The computer stopped and put up
 >a red signal, which meant that there was something wrong either
 >with the information fed into it or with the results as compared
 >to the standards. They called in the service department to
 >check it out and they said, "What's wrong?" Well, they found
 >there is a day missing in space in elapsed time. They scratched
 >their heads and tore their hair. There was no answer.

 >Finally, a Christian man on the team said, "You know, one time I

<snip>

 >Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes! Twenty-three hours and 20
 >minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in Second Kings make the
 >missing day in the universe! Isn't it amazing? Our God is
 >rubbing their noses in His Truth! References: Joshua 10:8 and
 >12,13; 2 Kings 20:9-11 Forward this to as many people who would
 >think this is equally as cool.


Dear Dan, Errol Bruce Knapp, Et*, and Listers the world 'round;
*(I hope you don't mind my calling you by your first name)

I enjoyed the story above. Hell, if I were to say I did not
enjoy it, I might be spending eternity below, eh? Tee hee. Just
a little Biblical humor, like my physical relationship with
women.

Anyway, I wanted so much to comment on the above because, when I
like, read it... I said to myself, "Oh my God, not again!" No,
really! I said that, just like that. I said, "Oh my God, not
again!" Exclamation points and all.

And then what I did was I opened a fresh bottle of Gripple and
took out one of my most prized possessions, an Arturo Fuente
Candella 54 ring seven inch beauty and I lit 'er up and started
immediately to suck on the end of the thing. Suddenly I realized
that I forgot to use the cigar cutter and cut a piece off the
end. No wonder it was hard drawing. Of course, once I figgered
out my error, I stuck one end (the one I suck on) in a glass of
B&B (I cheated, I switched the Gripple with some Benedictine and
Brandy) and sat back, ruminating and cogitating on the sweet
mystery of life, and how NASA's computer got us into this mess
in the first place, and sucked and sucked and sucked and drank
and drank and dunked and sucked until all the B&B was gone and
so was that Arturo Fuente. All gone. It took about two hours.
And I had to refill the glass numerous occasions whilst savoring
the aroma and flavor of one of the Lord's really neat thingies,
a good, aged, priceless cigar and a very expensive bottle of
(hic, excuse me) B&B.

Now I can truly say, "I've heard it all!" And I can also say,
with all due respect to God, the Universe, NASA, Dan Geib and
Everything, "I read the Bible, I read the mail, I smoked a good
ten dollar cigar, drank a $75 bottle of brandy and the best part
was finding out that I enjoyed the cigar the best of all whilst
sober."

The rest, I needed to be smashed to think about.

Gesundt








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             CPR-Canada News: Colin Andrews Diagnosed with Skin

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:39:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:57:06 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News: Colin Andrews Diagnosed with Skin


CPR-CANADA NEWS
The E-News Service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

January 22, 2000

_____________________________



CPRI FOUNDER COLIN ANDREWS DIAGNOSED WITH SKIN CANCER


I have received a notice from Colin Andrews (founder of Circles
Phenomenon Research International, of which CPR-Canada is an
affiliate) that he has just been diagnosed with skin cancer.

He has given permission for this to be made public, and a copy
of his statement follows.

Surgery is scheduled for Wednesday, January 26.

It is thought by his doctor at this point that the condition is
the result of years of sun exposure, and is not life
threatening. May our prayers and thoughts be with him at this
time.

Paul Anderson
Director
CPR-Canada

_____________________________


PUBLIC STATEMENT:

From: C.P.R. International- USA office.

Researcher Colin Andrews - Skin cancer

Yesterday the 14th January, international author and researcher,
Colin Andrews was diagnosed by Dermatologist and Skin Surgeon,
Dr. Donald R. Greene, M.D. as having an area of 'Squamous' skin
cancer on his left leg.

The area concerned is rather large and therefor will be removed
by Dr. Stefano Fusi, M.D., a plastic surgeon. This surgery will
take place on Wednesday 26 January.

Analysis will be conducted at The Yale Medical Center in
Connecticut and the results will be known soon after.  It is
thought at this stage the condition is not life threatening.

Issued by C.P.R. International offices in
Branford, Connecticut, USA
Tel/Fax: (USA)- 203-483-0822
PO Box 3378
Branford, CT 06405-1978 USA

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the electronic news service of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon
Research International), providing periodic updates with the
latest news and reports, as well as information on CPR-Canada
-related news and events. CPR-Canada News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by CPR-Canada, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International

Main Office

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4  Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522

_____________________________


� Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 2000











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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:03:04 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:59:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:28:44 -0600
 >From: John Ratcliff <jratcliff@worldnet.att.net>
 >Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Life is as much a property of the Universe as any of the laws of
 >physics . Intelligent life appears to have been a natural
 >byproduct of evolution here, so there is no reason to presume it
 >would not be the same on planetary systems throughout Universe.


John,

You've made so many mis-presumptions here that I won't even
begin to address them all. Maybe you ought to buy the book and
read it and get back to us.

Dennis








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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:54:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:05:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:44:56 -0600
 >From: Rogere Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Dennis Stacy
 >>Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 23:10:02 -0600
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 02:02:36 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

<snip>

 >Hi, Dennis.

 >I'm not a scientist. However, all you really need to be is a
 >good reader to note that Ward and Brownlee suggest that we
 >"might" be alone in the universe; not that we definitely are. In
 >addition, they would have to be the first to admit that their
 >views are based on how life evolved on this planet, with its
 >admittedly unique conditions. By necessity, their conclusions
 >relate ONLY to "life as we know it".


You just don't get it. (And neither do others.) Of course their
views are based on how evolution evolved, or transpired, on this
planet over time. What needs to be looked at here is the
evolution of planets over time, and solar systems over time, not
to mention the Gaia-like interactions of both.

 >They do not take into account "life as we do not know it."

Of course not, and why they should they, other than as an
intellectual excercise?

But we're ahead of ourselves. You read the book, I'll read the
book, and we can get back in touch.

 >Certainly, our life chain is dependent on a variety of well
 >timed and, apparently, fortuitous events and conditions. The
 >human species is much like a high performance race car.

Not according to Gould and Dawkins, who see us as a by-product
of a number of highly contingent (that is, unique and one-time)
events that just happened to result in homo sapiens.

 >It is very complex, fragile and requires a great deal of
 >maintenance to get the best results and win the "human race"
 >(sorry, I can't resist a bad pun).


You're on the verge of losing me here. Pun aside, what is it
that you are trying to say, exactly?

 >Surely, Ward and Brownlee must realize that there might be forms
 >of life in the universe that are less fragile than humans. As I
 >mentioned before, cockroaches seem to be damn near
 >indestructible and microbes have survived entire voyages into
 >space.

 >With all due respect to Ward and Brownlee, I think it is
 >presumptuous to use life on Earth as the measuring stick for the
 >tolerance of life in the rest of the universe.

 >Later,

 >Roger Evans


Later, indeed. Read the Ward and Brownlee book, as I will, and
get back to us.

Dennis








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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:28:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:02:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:00:29 -0800
 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >It should also be added that from what was quoted from Ward &
 >Brownlee, they failed to allow that those rare ETs who do evolve
 >within our galaxy and have become far advanced over us may well
 >have seeded other favorable planets within the galaxy with an
 >appropriate mixture of lowly life forms, thereby greatly
 >shortening the time required for further evolution on these
 >planets towards intelligent life.

<snip>

 >Jim Deardorff


Jim,

You're a scientist, or at least you used to be one before you
caught Meierism and went bonkers on us. Why don't you read the
Ward & Brownlee book first and then comment specifically on the
issues raised in same, rather than on what someone said about it
on a UFO thread?

Otherwise, we're simply treated to your personal beliefs (and
belief system) -- for which you have no evidence whatsoever. And
which, frankly, is getting pretty cranky.

Dennis








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                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:37:11 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:43:50 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999



UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999

Date:  04.12.1999
Day:  Saturday
Time seen:   8.22pm
Name:   Roslyn
Location: Bundaberg, Qld (Residential area)
Given to investigator:  John Mapson, AUFORN Bundaberg, QLD

Report:

Shape:  No shape
Size:   Smaller than the moon
Objects: One
Colour:  Bright orange light
Sound:  None
Speed:  1 mile away (approx)
Duration: 1 minute
Direction: East to West in the Northern sky
Witnesses: Two

Report:

Glowing orange light (steady light) moving across sky at quite a
quick speed.   The object seemed to be moving up and down.  the light
would glow brightly and fade.

AUFORN, Bundaberg

Thank You John Mapson for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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(A Non-Profit Organization)

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Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 18.10.1999

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:37:44 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:47:02 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 18.10.1999



UFO Sighting Report OZ File 18.10.1999

Date:  18.10.1999
Day: Saturday
Time seen:  4.30pm
Name: Anomonous
Location: Booyal, North Bundaberg, Qld (Country/Rural)
Given to investigator:  John Mapson, AUFORN Bundaberg, QLD

Report:

Shape: Cigar shaped (clearly outlined)
Size: 4 feet in length
Objects: One
Colour: Light grey with blue and yellow lights
Sound: Vibration
Speed: Hovered above shed
Duration: estimated 30 minutes
Direction: Northerly direction just above horizion
Witnesses: Three

Report:

When my father was alive, we had a visit from an uncle who was
fond of overstaying his welcome.  Dad and I were talking in the
little shed, I asked my uncle for a photo, he gave a dumb smile
and obliged.  A few seconds later I was knocked to the ground,
my instant camera hit me over the ears and when I came too, they
had taken a photo of themselves and their Spacecraft, the craft
had blue and yellow lights and the outline of small windows (the
photo showed the space craft and five smiling crew members
holding hands - the photo was unfortunately lost after leaving
the area).  The entities were pure white with gorgeous sapphire
blue eyes.   There was a vibration felt above us. We enjoyed a
peaceful mental telepathy.  Ever since then we have always
communicated, especially throuth my television.  I was left
slightly dizzy and still suffer from hot flushes.

AUFORN, Bundaberg

Thank You John Mapson for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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ADMINISTRATION:

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PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 22.11.1996

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:38:08 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:49:21 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 22.11.1996



UFO Sighting Report OZ File 22.11.1996


Date:  22.11.1996
Day: Sunday
Time seen:   5.15pm
Name: John
Location: Avondale, Bundaberg, Qld (Farming/Rural).  Reservoir
1/2 km in direction of flight Given to investigator:  John
Mapson, AUFORN Bundaberg, QLD

Report:

Shape: Cylindrical, a point each end (like a short pencil
sharpened each end) Size: About one & quarter times size of the
full moon overhead in length and about quarter of its length in
width.

Objects: One
Colour:  Silver metallic and shimmering, sparkling effect on
         each end
Sound:  None
Speed: Similar to a passenger plant (local twin engined
propellor driven). It appeared to be at a greater altitude.
Duration: 3 minutes approximately
Direction: South-East
Witnesses: One
Report:

Walking my dogs on open farmland 200 metres from home I noticed
almost overhead a cylindrical object moving across the sky
heading in a roughly South-East driection.  It was totally
silent and followed a steady course and speed.  It was a shiny
metallic looking cylinder with no openings, portholes,
protuberances or markings.  It looked like polished aluminium.
On each end was a shimmering silvery effect that came to a
point.  I walked home and watched it from my backyard and
watched it slowly disappear behind the treeline. From the rear I
could see it was a cylinder as it was round.

There was a similar object observed in Perth, Western Australia
later the same day??

AUFORN, Bundaberg

Thank You John Mapson for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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ADMINISTRATION:

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(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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             UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 001- Bundaberg

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:38:28 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:51:45 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 001- Bundaberg


UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 001- Bundaberg


Date:  Unknown
Day: Unknown
Time seen:   Daylight am
Name: Peter
Location: Bundaberg, Qld - 'Gin Gin' Country
Given to investigator:  John Mapson, AUFORN Bundaberg, QLD

Report:

Shape:  Disc (am);
Size:   50 to 60 metres (am);
Objects: 1 (am);
Colour:         Unknown
Sound:  Unknown
Speed:  350 to 450 knots (am);
Duration: Several minutes (am)
Direction: South-Easterly (am);
Witnesses: One

Report:

Daylight:- at 2,000 metres, before dawn, 50 to 60 metre disc
cheekily travelling South-Easterly at 350 to 450 knots.

AUFORN, Bundaberg

Thank You John Mapson for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 01.07.1999

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:39:07 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:54:34 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 01.07.1999



UFO Sighting Report OZ File 01.07.1999


Date:  01.07.1999
Day: Thursday
Time seen:   9.40pm
Name: Kaylene
Location: Warwick Qld (Residential)
Given to investigator:  Dianne Harrison, AUFORN, QLD

Report:

Shape: Like a star
Size: Star size
Objects:  5 objects
Colour: Bright orange
Sound: None
Speed: Medium pace
Duration:  30 minutes (approx)
Direction:  South-West to North (high in sky; 45 degrees to horizion)
Witnesses: Two

Report:

Lights were bright orange.  Two were travelling a distance apart, then the first
seemed to slow down for the second to catch up. They travelled a bit further,
then sat side by side for approximately 5 minutes, then slowly faded into space.
As the first two were fading I glanced out the other way again to see another on
e
by its self, this time it came about half the distance of the first two then fad
ed.
The next two did the same thing.

AUFORN, QLD

Thank You Dianne Harrison for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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ADMINISTRATION:

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(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Paul B. Thompson <MrApol@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:51 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:34:42 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

 >Anyone else heard of this one?


I heard this old canard back in the 1960s when I was in
elementary school. It's so ridiculous as to not bear much
examination.

How, pray tell, can NASA or anyone else "predict the position of
the sun, moon, planets, etc" when these bodies follow the same
general pattern they have for millions of years? It's tantamount
to saying you're projecting the calendar forward 5,000 years and
finding that Saturday March 10 of the year 2321 is "missing."
Huh? Show some sense, people!

This is a bit of modern folklore. Ignorant, credulous, folklore.

Paul B. Thompson









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                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:37:31 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:45:39 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 04.12.1999 (b)

Date:  04.12.1999
Day:  Saturday
Time seen:   8.22pm
Name:  Grant
Location: Bundaberg, Qld (Residential area)
Given to investigator:  John Mapson, AUFORN Bundaberg, QLD

Report:

Shape:  Just a bright light (steady, pulsating)
Size:   5 cent piece at arms length
Objects: One
Colour:  Orange/white
Sound:  None
Speed:  500 to 700 MPH (2,000 to 2,500 ft)
Duration: 30 seconds
Direction: East to West in the Northern sky
Witnesses: Two

Report:

Bright orange light travelling East to West in Northern sky.  It
appeared to be about 1000ft above the ground and travelling
about the same speed as a passenger plane.  Not moving in a
straight line, but appeared to be slightly moving up and down as
if hitting pockets of unstable air.  the lights sometimes grew
brighter and then dimmed off. It finally faded into the
North-West sky.

AUFORN, Bundaberg

Thank You John Mapson for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
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Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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             UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 002- Bundaberg

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:38:38 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:53:25 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 002- Bundaberg


UFO Sighting Report OZ File Unknown 002- Bundaberg


Date:  Unknown
Day: Unknown
Time seen:   Nightime pm
Name: Peter
Location: Bundaberg, Qld - 'Gin Gin' Country
Given to investigator:  John Mapson, AUFORN Bundaberg, QLD

Report:

Shape:  Unknown (pm)
Size:   Dodgem cars (pm)
Objects: 1 (pm)
Colour:         Unknown
Sound:  Unknown
Speed:  50 knots (pm)
Duration: Several minutes (pm)
Direction: Unknown (pm)
Witnesses: One

Report:

Nightime:- two craft of unknown shape, but near the size of
dodgem [Bumper] cars passed overhead at 100 metres doing perhaps
50 knots.

AUFORN, Bundaberg

Thank You John Mapson for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD


Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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ADMINISTRATION:

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(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File 15.07.1999

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:38:48 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:56:09 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 15.07.1999


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 15.07.1999


Date:  15.07.1999
Day:  Thursday
Time seen:   10.00
Name:  Anomonous
Location:  Bundaberg, Qld (Residential)
Given to investigator:  John Mapson, AUFORN Bundaberg, QLD

Report:

Shape:  Disc (clearly outlined)
Size: Cigarette lighter at arms length
Objects:  One
Colour:  Chrome (Silver)
Sound:
Speed: Slow (distance 4kms)
Duration: 5 minutes (approx)
Direction: Northerly direction
Witnesses: Two

Report:
Watched object at 45 degrees to the horizon heading in Northerly
direction, slowly observed for at least 5 minutes.  The
following day, Military aircraft was sighted in the same area.

AUFORN, Bundaberg

Thank You John Mapson for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD


Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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                     UFO Sighting Report OZ File 1980's

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:39:31 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:59:01 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 1980's


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 1980's   (Rag Like Mass)

Date: 1980s (exact year unknown)
Day: Unknown
Time seen: 11am to 11.30am
Name: Anonomous
Location:  Dumaresq River, Smithfield, Texas, Qld (Country/Rural)
Given to Investigator:  'UFO Jo', AUFORN, Ipswich, QLD

Report:

Shape: "Rag Like Mass" not a geometrical shape
Size:  Length approx 4ft (just over a metre); Across 1 to 2ft
(just under a metre)
Objects: One
Colour: Black, Brown & Grey mixed together
Sound:  None
Speed:  Hovering then vanished
Duration:  2 to 3 minutes
Direction: ?
Witnesses: One + Dog

Report:

Going down to the river to pump water to the house, my dog, whom
I had with me started growling.  I was at the time, half way
down the embankment.  Because of his growling I thought there
may have been someone going doen to the water's edge.  There was
no one in sight that I could see, either near or in the water. I
had a clear view of the river in both directions.

By now my dog was barking and because of this I went back up the
embarkment. I noticed that his hair was bristliing and that he
was watching, or hearing, or could sense something.  His eyes
and body followed what I could not see or hear.

Standing in the same spot and turning slowly round in a circle I
kept an eye open, not only on my dog but also around me.  The
way the dog was acting was not normal for him. His barking had
now becoem ferocious and his hair still bristlng.

At this point we were now facing the river.  I knelt down by the
dog to try and calm him and then looked across from where I was
kneeling.  I think my mouth dropped to the ground.  In the
centre of the river was this thing hanging or hovering above the
water.
  The colour of this 'thing' was soemwhere between a black, brown
  and grey mixed together. In length it was about 4ft (just over
  a metre) and 1 to 2 ft ( just under a meter) across. It was
  ointed at the top and ended with a point with what looked like
  several yards of thread hanging from it.  Its overall
  appearance looked very much like a large piece  of dirty old
  rag.

What ever it was did not cast a shadow on the water.  The Sun
made the water sparkle while flowing beneath this thing.  For
whatever the reason the Sun did not shine through this thing and
neither could I see through it.

My dog was making himself hoarse from his now frantic barking.
There was no doubt in my mind that I had a very scared dog.
While looking at him and trying to calm him down I then looked
up at the thing expecting to see 'it'.  It had disappeared.
Within a few seconds it had gone.

My dog continued to bark for several minutes more then calmed
down.  The outline of this 'thing' had a slightly blurred or
smudged look about it. AUFORN, QLD


Thank You 'UFO Jo' for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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   Jan > Jan 23

                   UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:40:16 +1100
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:00:33 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961


UFO Sighting Report OZ File Winter 1961 (Scared Cat)

Date:  Winter 1961
Day:   ?
Time seen: 9.45pm
Name:  May (not real name)
Location: Tenterfield NSW (Country/Rural)
Given to Investigator:  'UFO Jo', AUFORN, Ipswich, QLD

Report:

Shape: Lights
Size:  Large
Objects: Several
Colour:  Green and White
Sound:  None - Unusual Smell
Speed:  ?
Duration:  10 minutes
Direction: ?
Witnesses: One + Cat

Report:

This event took place inside the house with the owner seeing
nothing. 'May' is a widow living by herself with her cat.  On
this particular night 'May' was washing up, and without any
warning her cat arched his back, fur standing up and began
spitting and growling.  'May' could see no reason why her cat
was acting this way, but he was frightened.  The cat wanted to
go outside, 'May' opened the door and he couldn't get out quick
enough.  A short while later 'May' called her cat in, but he
intended to stay outside.  Even trying to coax him didn't work.
During the night 'May' was woken by an odd smell. Although it
did not smell like smoke she quickly got out of bed in case a
part of the house was alight.  She found nothing.  Yet the smell
pesisted.  She went back to bed and found it hard to sleep.  The
following morning 'May' realised the smell remined her of
Sulphur (her late husband used it on his large green and white
lights in the paddock behind her back fence.  At the time she
did not take much notice although could recollect a few months
before she had seen the same lights but in a different area of
the paddock just as the sun was going down.

AUFORN, QLD


Thank You 'UFO Jo' for this report

Regards
Kay McCullock
Investigator, AUFORN QLD



Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 03:03:21 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:08:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:18:29 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>You ignore the professionals whose training equips them to deal
 >>>with an inquiry like this: digital image specialists,
 >>>geologists, etc.

 >>I most certainly do not ignore the professionals since I am a
 >>professional 2D/3D graphic artists myself. There have been many
 >>occasions when I have been presented with original video footage
 >>for analysis, sometimes with some surprising results I might
 >>add.

 >>I have studied all the data from Cydonia and my conclusion is:
 >>you're wasting your time, it's just rocks.

 >All of it?  That's an impressive feat, if true, and I'm not
 >saying I doubt you.  You've made the conclusion there's nothing
 >to it.  I can't argue with this, either.  But there are a lot of
 >people more qualified than either of us who _don't_ think the
 >issue is settled. Thus my interest.

 >>May I ask what you do professionally?

 >My BA is in English.  I've had one book (fiction) published.
 >Back in high school I won a NASA essay contest on Mars two years
 >in a row through the Space Science Student Involvement Program,
 >so I got to take my paper and multimedia presentation to Cape
 >Kennedy and Huntsville's Space and Rocket Center, where various
 >project scientists offered suggestions.  The paper was all about
 >Cydonia, and while reactions were mixed (especially among the
 >various other regional winners!), my paper met with a surprising
 >degree of support.

 >I should add that nowhere in my paper did I "conclude" anything
 >about Cydonia other than that it deserved a closer look and was
 >a good site for a manned mission.  My position hasn't changed.

 >No, I am not a scientist by training or profession.  I've never
 >claimed to be a planetary geologist or a digital image
 >specialist.  But I'm familiar enough with the territory to have
 >an opinion and be able to back it up, even if the other party
 >doesn't agree.  What one does for a living has very little to do
 >with a potential extinct civilization on Mars unless what you do
 >is image processing _of the Cydonia region_.

 >Since you have reached a conclusion, I think it is fair to ask
 >to see your evidence.  Any peer-reviewed papers?  Anything about
 >Cydonia? If so, put them in the public arena for the edification
 >of us nut-cases.

 >Finally, let me present my position on this matter yet again
 >since no one seems to want to pay attention:

 >I am not claiming that the Face or anything else on Mars is
 >artificial, only that it is anomalous enough to deserve a closer
 >look.

 >I think anyone who can ignore formations such as the Cliff, Fort
 >and not be at least a bit curious are arguing from an emotional
 >standpoint, not a scientific one.

 >Mac

Hi Mac,

I just wanted to throw in my two cents.  I admire your tenacity
in the face of those who know better than you do.  Quite
frankly, anyone who says the words, "I have the truth" or any
variation on the theme, makes me want to toss my cookies.  It
sickens me to have to even consider the possibility that someone
knows for a certainty, the truth about such issues as involve
UFOs, the abduction phenom, the "face" on Mars or for that
matter, anything that involves "opinion."

There is way too much opinion being disguised by the culpably
ignorant as fact.  I try hard, very hard, to keep my trap shut,
but I am afraid, alas, that I am a failure.

I congratulate you on not only hanging on to what you know, but
more important, what you don't know. And fessing up to both.

That, I admire in a man.  Take heart, someday, we'll all know
the truth.  I just hate having to:

A) Wait that long.

B) Subject myself to the final insult of the death of this body
    in order to achieve such knowledge.

Blessings and personal regards,

Jim Mortellaro, aka, J. Jaime Gesundt, Esq.









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   Jan > Jan 24

                 UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00458 02.01.00

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:24:16 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:31:57 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00458 02.01.00


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00458 02.01.00

FOLLOWUP Russell Boundy FNQ 1800 Callin Code: 00458 02.01.00


Date: 02.01.00
Day:    Sunday
Time reported:  12.50am
Location: Tully
Reporter: unknown?
Report given to nearest rep.  R. Boundy FNQ

No Message.

Report:
A followup call was made to the phone number supplied.
The two persons at that number had no knowledge of making the
call in, the location of these persons is at Mackay, Queensland.
No further action taken.


Thank you Russell Boundy for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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                 UFO Sighting Report OZ File QB0027 17.12.99

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:47:19 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:36:48 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File QB0027 17.12.99


UFO Sighting Report  QB0027 FNQ.File 17.12.99.

FOLLOWUP Holly Goriss UFORFNQ 1800 Callin Code: QB0027 17.12.99

Date:           17.12.99
Day:                 Friday
Time Seen:      02.44am
Witness:                one (female aged 16 years) name on file.
Location:               Babinda township , rural /residential.
Investigated by Holly Goriss UFORFNQ.

Shape:          oval
Size:           30mm at arms length
Objects:                one
Colour:         dull white light
Sound:          no
Speed:          hovering and slow movements
Duration:               3 and half mins( timed by clock)
Direction:      SE between 500m to two km distance
Witnesses:      one

Report (As stated by witness)

I was in my bedroom which faces the South East, I was feelinga
little sick and needed some fresh air in my bedroom so I sat up
and opened the window. there is a space between my bed and the
window so I sat on the edge of my bed looking out the window. I
looked to see how the weather was and it was beautiful and
clear, I saw a bright star between and above two trees and it
was beautiful.   But something made me look across a bit to the
right

I saw something move straight up, then stop and hover, then move
sideways (horizontally)then hovered.( At app.38 degrees
elevation)   I thought it was a helicopter or airplane but I
could not hear any noise.  it had a light around the side and
was all white. The object looked like an oval shape, with a
center band of brighter light in the middle, this center band
was much brighter than the top and bottom sections.    After it
had hovered it went down again a bit and stopped for a few
seconds( up to a minute) then it just disappeared, like one
mnute it was there the next it dissappeared.

The rest of my family were asleep and there are no other
witnesses that I know of.

After that whole  scene I just raced out to the kitchen and drew
a diagram of what i saw, and wrote a note to my parents to let
them know as soon as they woke up.  My father told me to report
it.

No air traffic movements were operating in the vicinity of the
location at the time of the event.

Holly Goriss.
UFORFNQ North Queensland.
Regards to all.

---

Thank you Holly Goriss for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>









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   Jan > Jan 24

             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:48:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:40:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:18:29 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>You ignore the professionals whose training equips them to deal
 >>>with an inquiry like this: digital image specialists,
 >>>geologists, etc.

 >>I most certainly do not ignore the professionals since I am a
 >>professional 2D/3D graphic artists myself. There have been many
 >>occasions when I have been presented with original video footage
 >>for analysis, sometimes with some surprising results I might
 >>add.

 >>I have studied all the data from Cydonia and my conclusion is:
 >>you're wasting your time, it's just rocks.

 >All of it?  That's an impressive feat, if true, and I'm not
 >saying I doubt you.

Yes all of it, my conclusion stands.

 >>May I ask what you do professionally?

 >My BA is in English.  I've had one book (fiction) published.
 >Back in high school I won a NASA essay contest on Mars two years
 >in a row through the Space Science Student Involvement Program,
 >so I got to take my paper and multimedia presentation to Cape
 >Kennedy and Huntsville's Space and Rocket Center, where various
 >project scientists offered suggestions.  The paper was all about
 >Cydonia, and while reactions were mixed (especially among the
 >various other regional winners!), my paper met with a surprising
 >degree of support.

 >I should add that nowhere in my paper did I "conclude" anything
 >about Cydonia other than that it deserved a closer look and was
 >a good site for a manned mission.  My position hasn't changed.

 >No, I am not a scientist by training or profession.  I've never
 >claimed to be a planetary geologist or a digital image
 >specialist.  But I'm familiar enough with the territory to have
 >an opinion and be able to back it up, even if the other party
 >doesn't agree.  What one does for a living has very little to do
 >with a potential extinct civilization on Mars unless what you do
 >is image processing _of the Cydonia region_.

 >Since you have reached a conclusion, I think it is fair to ask
 >to see your evidence.  Any peer-reviewed papers?  Anything about
 >Cydonia? If so, put them in the public arena for the edification
 >of us nut-cases.

Sorry, no papers, just doing what I'm paid for.

 >Finally, let me present my position on this matter yet again
 >since no one seems to want to pay attention:

 >I am not claiming that the Face or anything else on Mars is
 >artificial, only that it is anomalous enough to deserve a closer
 >look.

 >I think anyone who can ignore formations such as the Cliff, Fort
 >and not be at least a bit curious are arguing from an emotional
 >standpoint, not a scientific one.

Actually I think the complete opposite, the people who see
things in these as you quite rightly say "formations" are
arguing from an emotional standpoint, not a scientific one.

Anyway, I think I've had enough of this Martian face stuff.

So I bid you a fond farewell.

Dave.








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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:17:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:45:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:11:00 +0100
 >From: clearlight@t-online.de (Josh Goldstein)
 >Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 11:00:29 -0800
 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

 >Jim, what you posted is thoughtful but allow me to thicken your
 >"slim possibility" with a proposition.

Josh, I need you to spell out the proposition, which somehow
escaped my detection.

 >>>>But a new book by two University of Washington scientists
 >>>>contends that, contrary to popular thought, we just might be
 >>>>alone and Earth might be unique, if not in the universe at least
 >>>>in this celestial neighborhood.

 >>I should add that the forementioned scientists used this concept
 >>of quick & easy population of an entire galaxy to argue,
 >>following Fermi and his "paradox," that therefore no advanced
 >>alien life exists within our galaxy, since we are uncolonized.
 >>This of course involved the unspoken assumption that "genuine"
 >>UFOs either do not exist or are not piloted by ETs. (Carl Sagan
 >>tried to counter their argument by saying that any attempted
 >>colonization of a galaxy would involve, on the average, a
 >>stop-over time period of 100,000 years after reaching one
 >>hospitable planet before embarking out to another star system in
 >>search of the next favorable planet to colonize; hence he
 >>believed or hoped it would take a half billion years to colonize
 >>the galaxy, not just 20 million years, and by this time stellar
 >>positions would continually be too scrambled to be able to
 >>colonize more than just a local group of stellar systems. Hence
 >>SETI could proceed on that basis.)

 >Carl Sagan's counter argument was within a very limited context.
 >For example, his "step time of 100,000 years" is only one of
 >many possibilities. Who is to say that they may not have sent
 >out seeding teams to many places that had potential at the same
 >time or within a limited number of years. Was Sagan thinking
 >they would hopscotch across the galaxy one by one?  With 100,000
 >years between jumps. We are talking aliens who would be far
 >advanced of us.

<snip>

Yes, precisely so. The 100,000 year figure Sagan postulated was
ridiculous. However, the idea wasn't to hopscotch one by one,
but for each new planet colonized to hopscotch outwards, which
then gives an expanding spherical shell of colonizing efforts.
The usual figure utilized for the "pause" before a newly
colonized planet continues colonization of its own is around
1000 years.










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   Jan > Jan 24

               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:33:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:14:36 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Dan,

 >I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

 >Anyone else heard of this one

 >NASA finds evidence that the Bible is TRUE!!!

 >For all you scientists out there and for all the   students who
 >have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of
 >the Bible...here's something that shows God's awesome creation
 >and shows that He is still in control.  Did you know that the
 >space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth"
 >in the Bible is true? Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis
 >Engine Company in Baltimore Maryland and a consultant in the
 >space program, relates the following development: I think one of
 >the most amazing things that God has for us today happened
 >recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt,
 >Maryland.  They were checking the position of the sun, moon, and
 >planets out in space where they would be 100 years and 1000
 >years from now. We have to know this so we won't send a
 >satellite, up and have it bump into something later on its
 >orbits. We have to lie out the orbits in terms of the life of
 >the satellite, and where the planets will be so the whole thing
 >will not bog down.

And blah blah blah.

This is a silly folktale which has circulated among Christian
fundamentalists for years.  Somewhere in my mountainous files I
have a tape of a CSICOP conference held in California, where my
friend Bill Ellis, a folklorist from Penn State, spoke.  Among
the other speakers were America's two most prominent
folklorists, Alan Dundes and Jan Harold Brunvand.  One or the
other -- I don't recall which -- recounted his extensive
investigation of the claim, which proved (big surprise) without
any factual foundation.

Another, somewhat comparable story that has gone through the
same circles avers that somewhere in the world, an oil- drilling
crew plowed so deep that the cries of tortured souls in hell
could be heard.  If you believe that one, you'll probably
believe the story about NASA's discovery of a missing day.

Jerry Clark











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                 TMP News: News Briefing - January 23, 2000

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:15:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:15:20 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing - January 23, 2000


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 23, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.23.00


SPECIAL REPORT

CPRI Founder Colin Andrews Diagnosed with Skin Cancer
http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada/colincancer.html


QUANTA
Science and Technology

Russians, NASA Meet Secretly To Plan Manned Mars Missions
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/secretmarsmeet.html

Scientists Find Smallest Form of Life, if It Lives
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/smallestlife.html

Chance of Asteroid Destroying Earth is Less than Thought
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/chanceasteroid.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

Upcoming CBC Programs on 1999 Canadian Crop Circles
and Cattle Mutilations
http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada/countrycan.html

Bovine Intervention: High-Powered Research Team Tries
to Get to the Bottom of Cow Mutilations
http://www.metroactive.com:80/metro/slices-0003.html


DREAMLAND
Government Secrecy and Black Projects

Government Coverups Revealed
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/coverups.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium Project,
providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of the latest relevant
news stories and reports, as well as periodic information and updates
on major breaking news stories and TMP-related news and events. TMP
News is edited by Paul Anderson and published by TMP, and is available
free by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list, send
your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP
News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000









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                Cydonian Imperative: Common Arguments Against

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:36:10 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:17:18 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Common Arguments Against


Common Arguments Against Artificiality at Cydonia

by Mac Tonnies

Carl Sagan's maxim "Intelligence on Earth reveals itself through
the regularity of its structures" has become fuel for one of the
main arguments against the possibility of an extinct
civilization on Mars.  Interestingly, there are signs of
geometric regularity... only these don't take the form of
freeways, overpasses and housing subdivisions.

Since nothing _recognizably_ artificial jumps out at us from the
MGS photos, skeptics maintain, the hints of structure visible in
the Viking photographs (notably in the area dubbed "the City")
were a false alarm.

This false alarm is, I think, premature.  Terrestrial bias has
kept researchers from dealing with the Cydonian anomalies
objectively (after all, we are dealing with a hypothetical
_alien_ civilization).

As in radio-based SETI, we expect aliens to be more or less like
ourselves in crucial respects.  Radio SETI is predicated on the
idea that intelligent extraterrestrials will

a.) have a monetary system essentially like our own, leading
them away from building spacecraft (too expensive, argue SETI
pundits) and instead building radio telescopes and transmitters.

[The movie "Contact," based on Sagan's novel, casts an
ironically revealing light on this presumption: the aliens
communicate with us through a painfully complex radio
transmission that turns out to be...plans for a transdimensional
spaceship!  (Why didn't the aliens use the spaceship in the
first place instead of beaming signals at us?)]

b.)  _want_ to be contacted.

(Of course, there's always the possibility we will eavesdrop on
their electromagnetic pollution, voiding "b.")

In undisciplined planetary SETI, similar assumptions keep us
blinkered. On the extreme left fringe of "Face on Mars"
advocacy, roads, "hiero- glyphics" and all manner of things were
expected prior to the MGS overpasses.  Such give-away features
would _prove_ that the Face, etc. was "real."  Little or no
thought went into the role erosion would have played, and
planetary SETI was left in the absurd position of having to
defend itself from critics who couldn't find the "roads" and
"stripmalls."

The Face itself is a case in point.  Superficially, it's less
facelike because of the obvious erosion that's been at work on
it.  The brow appears to have slumped on the right side (a trait
already evidenced by the Viking high sun-angle image) and there
is an apparent sand dune near the lower right corner (visible as
a bright kidney shape on the MGS image).

Skeptics immediately used blemishes like this to denounce the
Face as a "hill" or "pile of rocks" (admittedly, an easy thing
to do using JPL's misleading "enhancements").

But do erosional features like these imply purely geological
origin? Absolutely not.  _Any_ feature of the Face's size, left
to Mars' climate (not to mention possibly meteoric rain) will
inevitably take on a degraded look after so many thousands of
years.  The slumping we see concentrated on the Face's right
half is entirely consistent with the Artificiality Hypothesis,
which maintains that the Face is a giant rock carving.

This obviously doesn't "prove" that the Face is artificial;
proving artificiality is not the point of any of the posts I've
written.  But the Face's superficial resemblance to adjacent
natural-looking mesas (in its weathered texture, etc.) is
clearly not a valid criterium for dismissing it as natural.  A
more developed and coherent criteria for possible artificiality
is called for.

What of the "City Pyramid"?  Again, this feature appears
essentially as the Viking imagery predicted.  It's faceted (and
unexpectedly five-sided, giving it a rather uncanny resemblance
to the D&M Pyramid father south) and graced with some strange
linear grooves that appear worn and abraded.  This feature's age
is further demonstrated by the "apron" of sand that appears to
have settled around it, obscuring some of the detail along the
base.

We are left with very challenging epistimological issues: how to
discern possible architecture built millennia ago by a
civilization about which we know nothing?  Looking for
precedents on Earth has been a form of recourse, but such a tack
is limited; no kilometer-sized structures were built in
terrestrial antiquity.

####

The problems mentioned briefly above are, I believe,
sufficiently interesting as to make new photos worth our while.
Some thoughts on what we _should_ be looking for will be the
subject of my next post.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a newsletter devoted to the immediate implementation of manned
Mars missions and the democratization of space science,
emphasizing the strange formations found in the Cydonia Mensae
region.  This list is not affiliated with any particular Mars
advocacy group.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

NOW SEEKING: web space for archival puposes and online
petition

Useful websites (note that not all positions represented are
shared with the Cydonian Imperative):

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Mars: Mysteries of the Red Planet:
http://www.mufor.org/mars.html
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
Cydonia 2000: http://welcome.to/cydonia/
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_









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               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:09:48 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:18:55 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


 >From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:23:15 -0500
 >Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

 >I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.
 >Anyone else heard of this one ?

<snip>

 >Did you know that thespace program is busy proving that
 >what has been called "myth" in the Bible is true?
 >Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis Engine Company
 >in Baltimore Maryland and a consultant in the space
 >program

Harold Hill?  The Music Man?  Ha!

Bob Young








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                Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:30:42 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:21:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe


 >From: Dennis Stacy
 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:54:14 -0600
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:05:36 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe

 >>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:44:56 -0600
 >>From: Rogere Evans
 >>Subject: Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, I had written:

 >>I'm not a scientist. However, all you really need to be is a
 >>good reader to note that Ward and Brownlee suggest that we
 >>"might" be alone in the universe; not that we definitely are. In
 >>addition, they would have to be the first to admit that their
 >>views are based on how life evolved on this planet, with its
 >>admittedly unique conditions. By necessity, their conclusions
 >>relate ONLY to "life as we know it".

Dennis responded:

 >You just don't get it. (And neither do others.)

<snip>

 >Read the Ward and Brownlee book, as I will, and
 >get back to us.

Hi, Dennis.

Frankly, how would you know whether I "get it" or not?
Admittedly, you haven't read Ward and Brownlee's book. Yet,
somehow, you've already taken the position that my opposing
views (and other's) are "wrong"?

I'm not terribly interested in debating someone that tells me
I'm wrong about a book that they, themselves, haven't even read
yet. Beyond that, how much of the book would I really need to
read to understand the general implications which you, yourself,
brought to this thread?

Last I looked the title was

"Advanced Life Said To Be Rare In Universe".

I simply disagree. I think that there are a multitude of
possibilities for life that you or I simply can not imagine. As
you pointed out, Ward and Brownlee have limited themselves to
using Earth as the litmus for the development of other planets
and life elsewhere.

Don't need to be a scientist to understand that.

Nor do I need to spend time reading a book that promotes an idea
I don't buy into. However, I'll make a stab at how it ends:

Life on Earth is unique and advanced life is thought to be rare
in the universe.

Let me know if I'm close.  ;)

Best wishes,

Roger Evans








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                 PRG Press Release - 1/24/00 - EXTRA Awards

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:42:08 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:26:02 -0500
Subject: PRG Press Release - 1/24/00 - EXTRA Awards


                        PRG
                 Paradigm Research Group

Press Release

January 24, 2000

Attn: Internet Editor/Reviewer/Webmaster

Washington, DC - Paradigm Research Group has given two awards of
excellence to websites addressing extraterrestrial related
phenomena. Receiving the awards in the research category are the
home site for the Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (www.CAUS.org)
and UFOCity.com (www.ufocity.com).

The award is designed around Joe Tucciarone's
(http://members.aol.com/INTERSTELL/art.html) expansive painting
Genesis and is called the Extraterrestrial Phenomena Research
Award - EXTRA.  The awards and reviews are located at:
www.paradigmclock.com/extra_award.html.

The purpose of the EXTRA is to raise the awareness of the media
and public toward the quality and professionalism of websites
devoted to extraterrestrial phenomena. The public perception is
that the UFO presence on the Internet is silly, casual, and poor
in quality. Nothing could be further from the truth. The effort
put into these websites is often extraordinary. Every aspect of
web publishing technology is utilized and the entire field of
study is richly represented.

January 2000 EXTRA Winners for Research

Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) - www.caus.org
Publisher: CAUS/Peter Gersten
Webmaster: Keith Rowland

Motto: "Where there is secrecy, there is no truth; where there
        is no truth, there is no justice; where there is no
        justice there is no freedom."

Mission Statement: CAUS is an Arizona based, public interest
organization formed upon four principles:

1.  CAUS believes that this planet, and the people on it, are
     interacting and in contact with a non-human form of
     intelligence;

2.  CAUS is against any and all secrecy surrounding, involving
     and relating to this contact;

3.  CAUS believes that the people have an absolute and
     unconditional right to know about this contact; and
4.  CAUS believes that it is through the judicial process
     that the truth will be set free and secrecy ended.

UFOCity.com - www.ufocity.com
Publisher:   Binary Media Works, Inc.
Editor:   Peter Robbins
Mission Statement:

�   To provide a forum for the serious discussion of UFOs and
     related paranormal research without fear or ridicule or
     scorn.

�   To allow a multitude of opinions to flourish in the belief
     that only through the open and public discussion of all
     aspects of this issue, can the truth be discerned.

�   To support a popular movement to demand that the subject be
     accorded respect by our elected officials, journalists and
     members of the scientific community.

�   To provide access to as much quality information as
     possible.

Contacts:

CAUS - Peter Gersten:   480-609-9120   UFOLawyer@caus.org
UFOCity.com - Peter Robbins:   probbins@teamcpm.com
Paradigm Research Group - Stephen Bassett: ParadigmRG@aol.com








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                      Re: 'Starfield Camo' Page Updated

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:52:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:27:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Starfield Camo' Page Updated


An index page providing several links for the January 5, 2000
report of a 'Starfield Camo' UFO in Illinois has been updated,
and might provide some assistance to anyone researching the
event.

The page is available at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/missouri99.html

Thanks,
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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                       X-PPAC Press Release - 1/25/00

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ExPPAC@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 04:48:36 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:47:27 -0500
Subject: X-PPAC Press Release - 1/25/00


                      X-PPAC
Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee

Press Release
                             January 24, 2000

Washington, DC - Heather Anne Harder, Democratic candidate for
President, will guest on Art Bell's Coast to Coast, Wednesday
night, January 26, 10 pm PST.

With the withdrawal from the 2000 campaign of Elizabeth Dole,
Dr. Harder becomes the leading woman on the ballot in the New
Hampshire primary, February 1.  An educator, entrepreneur,
speaker, author and mother, Dr. Harder's progressive platform
[www.Harder2000.com] is, in part, distinguished by a firm stance
on the validity of the worldwide UFO/ET phenomena.

The Wednesday night Art Bell Show is entitled, "Disclosure 2000
- Is this the year?"  It is the third in a series of shows which
have run each January since 1998.  In each program a number of
guests address the politics of UFOs/disclosure - the process
leading to formal acknowledgment by the U.S. government of an
extraterrestrial presence in our world, now.

Also appearing on the program that evening are:

Stephen Bassett:    lobbyist, founder of Paradigm Research
                             Group, and Executive Director of X-PPAC
                             [www.x-ppac.org]

Peter Gersten:  attorney, co-founder and Director of CAUS -
                         Citizens Against UFO Secrecy
                         [www.caus.org]

Richard Hoagland:   activist, consultant, author, and
                             Director of The Enterprise Mission.
                             [www.enterprisemission.com]

Past guests in the Disclosure Series have included: author and
activist, Dr. Steven Greer; author, Jim Marrs; Apollo astronaut,
Dr. Edgar Mitchell, researcher, Robert Dean; entrepreneur and
researcher, Joseph Firmage; and author/publisher, William
Birnes.

Coast to Coast is the largest late night radio talk show in the
U.S. and is aired over 500 stations. Links to websites for the
program guests are posted at [www.artbell.com].

X-PPAC is a project of the Paradigm Research Group
[www.paradigmclock.com].

Contact:    301-564-1820
                 ExPPAC@aol.com








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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:29:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:18:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:17:21 +0000
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hi All & Dave,

 >>>I most certainly do not ignore the professionals since I am a
 >>>professional 2D/3D graphic artists myself. There have been many
 >>>occasions when I have been presented with original video footage
 >>>for analysis, sometimes with some surprising results I might
 >>>add.

 >I have spent many a night around Dave's place studying UFO video
 >tapes, and UFO movie files amongst others. And I have had the
 >chance to see Dave at work with the Graphic side of things, I
 >can only say amazing work. ( I wish I had his set up) I wish he
 >would post his web site address for all to see!

 >>I have studied all the data from Cydonia and my conclusion is:
 >>you're wasting your time, it's just rocks.

 >There is another word for it Dave, only I can't remember the
 >spelling?

Hi Roy,

I believe the word you are looking for is simulacra, created
naturally in rock, clouds, tree stumps etc, perceived by humans
as a face, a dolphin, a pelican or whatever.

Dave.








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                           More On Alaska Fireball

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:03:57 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:20:29 -0500
Subject: More On Alaska Fireball


Dear List:

This article can  be found on space.com -- http://www.space.com

http://www.space.com/science/planetearth/nasa_yukon_000121.html

NASA Plane Probes Yukon Skies for Meteor Particles

NASA dispatched an aircraft to the Yukon Territory on a one-day
trip to collect atmospheric samples from a meteor that exploded
earlier in the week over the remotely populated stretch of
northwestern Canada.

The Airborne Sciences ER-2 made the round-trip flight on Friday
from Dryden Flight Research Center in the Mojave Desert to the
remote region of Canada, where it combed the skies for traces of
the massive meteor that exploded on the morning of Jan. 18.

The meteor detonated at an altitude of 16 miles (25 kilometers)
with the energy of two to three kilotons of TNT, rattling
houses, knocking snow off roofs and shaking seismic monitoring
stations in the region. The explosion produced twin sonic booms
and a sizzling sound over Alaska and northwestern Canada,
according to a NASA release.

The meteor vaporized the atmosphere as it streaked across the
sky, flashing green and leaving behind a glowing vapor trail and
foul odor.

The airplane collected samples of the meteor’s debris cloud
and vapor trail at an altitude of 65,000 feet (19.5 kilometers)
with an instrument called the Aerosol Particulate Sampler. The
device consists of two small paddles, coated in sticky silicone
oil, that trap particles in the stratosphere when exposes to the
airstream from their perch on the ER-2’s left wingtip.

The paddles were then drawn inside and sealed hermetically. NASA
will now ship them to Johnson Space Center for analysis.

Scientists are eager to study the samples in order to learn more
about the meteor's origin and composition.

The plane, one of two such high-altitude research planes based
at Dryden, also carried a black-and-white camera to probe the
area for direct signs of any impact by meteorites associated
with the explosion. Ideally, scientists could easily pick out
any flattened areas of forest or craters in the area in the
photographs.









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               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:29:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:22:35 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


 >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:51 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Paul B. Thompson <MrApol@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >>From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >>Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

 >>Anyone else heard of this one?

 >I heard this old canard back in the 1960s when I was in
 >elementary school. It's so ridiculous as to not bear much
 >examination.

 >How, pray tell, can NASA or anyone else "predict the position of
 >the sun, moon, planets, etc" when these bodies follow the same
 >general pattern they have for millions of years? It's tantamount
 >to saying you're projecting the calendar forward 5,000 years and
 >finding that Saturday March 10 of the year 2321 is "missing."
 >Huh? Show some sense, people!

 >This is a bit of modern folklore. Ignorant, credulous, folklore.

Other errors in that post.

Astronauts are resident at Johnson Space Center only, not
Goddard. NASA doesn't even do mission analysis for 20 years in
the future, let alone 100 years or 1000 years.

Roger

* Rocket Scientist
* Ex-NASA shuttle team
* Design engineer of 4 electronics boxes scattered on Mars
* Gripple Drinker
* photographer of alien autopsy
* architect of Cydonia Mall of Mars



Roger R. Prokic
Principal RF Systems Engineer
Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp.
Boulder, Colorado USA
-=[ sent from a Palm Vx & MultiMail Pro v3.1 ]=-









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               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:25:34 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:25:45 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


 >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:33:19 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >>From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >>Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Dan,

 >>I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

 >>Anyone else heard of this one

 >>NASA finds evidence that the Bible is TRUE!!!

 >>For all you scientists out there and for all the   students who
 >>have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of
 >>the Bible...here's something that shows God's awesome creation
 >>and shows that He is still in control.  Did you know that the
 >>space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth"
 >>in the Bible is true? Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis
 >>Engine Company in Baltimore Maryland and a consultant in the
 >>space program, relates the following development: I think one of
 >>the most amazing things that God has for us today happened
 >>recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt,
 >>Maryland.  They were checking the position of the sun, moon, and
 >>planets out in space where they would be 100 years and 1000
 >>years from now. We have to know this so we won't send a
 >>satellite, up and have it bump into something later on its
 >>orbits. We have to lie out the orbits in terms of the life of
 >>the satellite, and where the planets will be so the whole thing
 >>will not bog down.

 >And blah blah blah.

 >This is a silly folktale which has circulated among Christian
 >fundamentalists for years.  Somewhere in my mountainous files I
 >have a tape of a CSICOP conference held in California, where my
 >friend Bill Ellis, a folklorist from Penn State, spoke.  Among
 >the other speakers were America's two most prominent
 >folklorists, Alan Dundes and Jan Harold Brunvand.  One or the
 >other -- I don't recall which -- recounted his extensive
 >investigation of the claim, which proved (big surprise) without
 >any factual foundation.

 >Another, somewhat comparable story that has gone through the
 >same circles avers that somewhere in the world, an oil- drilling
 >crew plowed so deep that the cries of tortured souls in hell
 >could be heard.  If you believe that one, you'll probably
 >believe the story about NASA's discovery of a missing day.

 >Jerry Clark

Hmmm.... well I have an opinion.  Jerry Fallwell and Jerry Clark!

Coincidence?  Or conspiracy?  You decide.

Gesundt on Religion








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               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:25:34 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:27:15 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


 >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:33:19 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >>From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >>Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Dan,

 >>I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

 >>Anyone else heard of this one

 >>NASA finds evidence that the Bible is TRUE!!!

 >>For all you scientists out there and for all the   students who
 >>have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of
 >>the Bible...here's something that shows God's awesome creation
 >>and shows that He is still in control.  Did you know that the
 >>space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth"
 >>in the Bible is true? Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis
 >>Engine Company in Baltimore Maryland and a consultant in the
 >>space program, relates the following development: I think one of
 >>the most amazing things that God has for us today happened
 >>recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt,
 >>Maryland.  They were checking the position of the sun, moon, and
 >>planets out in space where they would be 100 years and 1000
 >>years from now. We have to know this so we won't send a
 >>satellite, up and have it bump into something later on its
 >>orbits. We have to lie out the orbits in terms of the life of
 >>the satellite, and where the planets will be so the whole thing
 >>will not bog down.

 >And blah blah blah.

 >This is a silly folktale which has circulated among Christian
 >fundamentalists for years.  Somewhere in my mountainous files I
 >have a tape of a CSICOP conference held in California, where my
 >friend Bill Ellis, a folklorist from Penn State, spoke.  Among
 >the other speakers were America's two most prominent
 >folklorists, Alan Dundes and Jan Harold Brunvand.  One or the
 >other -- I don't recall which -- recounted his extensive
 >investigation of the claim, which proved (big surprise) without
 >any factual foundation.

 >Another, somewhat comparable story that has gone through the
 >same circles avers that somewhere in the world, an oil- drilling
 >crew plowed so deep that the cries of tortured souls in hell
 >could be heard.  If you believe that one, you'll probably
 >believe the story about NASA's discovery of a missing day.

 >Jerry Clark

Hmmm.... well I have an opinion.  Jerry Fallwell and Jerry Clark!

Coincidence?  Or conspiracy?  You decide.

Gesundt on Religion






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              Cydonian Imperative: Thoughts on Extraterrestrial

From: Alintelbot@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:07:57 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:07:47 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Thoughts on Extraterrestrial


Thoughts on Extraterrestrial Archaeology

by Mac Tonnies

Granted that the chances of finding "freeways" and "shopping
malls" at Cydonia and elsewhere on Mars are based on terrestrial
chauvinism, what _should_ we be looking for?

We find ourselves confronted with an utterly new discipline:
extraterrestrial archaeology.  Since we're dealing with possible
structures conceived by apparent aliens, it may appear that
anything we look at in the Mars photographs is a candidate
feature for artificiality.  I argue that this isn't the case,
and that the flurry of brash dismissals and eager endorsements
that followed the 1998 Mars Global Surveyor overflights are
indicative of this present state.

While we should always be prepared for the unexpected, there are
a few telltale signs that, if discovered, will strengthen the
case for intentional construction.  Interestingly, some sites
have already been discovered that seem to conform to such
practical (and aesthetic) criteria (i.e. the depression and
proposed dolphinoid reflecting pool visible from the Fort and
Main City Pyramid and various crater rim formations suggestive
of mining operations).

Unfortunately, we must rely on circumstantial evidence for the
date of these candidate structures.  Mark Carlotto, in the
revised edition of _The Martian Enigmas_, suggests that the Face
and City were constructed  app. 30,000 years ago, based on
solstice evidence.  Prior to Carlotto, Richard Hoagland
calculated a date of 500,000 years.

In either case, based on what we know about the planet's
geologic history, Mars was essentially a "dead" world.  The
possibility of limited amounts of liquid water are still the
subject of much debate.

(I think it's important to note that Cydonia was recognized as
one of the best sites for potential extant water since 1976,
when Viking project scientists seriously considered sending one
of the Viking landers there.  (This option was dropped as
Cydonia was too bumpy, and might have complicated a landing.)

The observed conditions would have placed certain physical and
ecological constraints on any civilization living on Mars at the
time, whether it was indigenous (the "Cydonian Hypothesis") or
from elsewhere in the galaxy. Assuming that the "Martians" were
biological creatures with needs not unlike our own, what would
we expect them to build in order to maintain their presence on
an inhospitable world?  This is a question of increasing
relevance as plans to send our own crewed mission to Mars become
more mature and practical (as illustrated in Zubrin's _The Case
for Mars_).

Specifically, the Martians would have needed to protect
themselves from the elements and maximize resources such as
heat, water and air.  This is the exact purpose of the "Mars
Direct"-style habitats now under consideration by NASA.

While plans for manned bases envision a crew of relatively few,
a large population such as a Martian civilization would
naturally have required much larger habitats.  Is this what we
are observing in massive formations such as the D&M Pyramid and
various formations in the City area?  This idea was originally
proposed in Richard Hoagland's speculative book _The Monuments
of Mars_, in which he cites architect Paolo Soleri (a proponent
of megascale engineering intended to minimize urban sprawl and
minimize waste).  Some of Soleri's designs for enclosed cities
are pyramidal and kilometers in width.

The Main City Pyramid and the D&M formation, with their hints of
structural detail and identical faceted shape, may be enclosures
of this sort.  This theory gains momentum from the appearance of
the Fort, an unexplained angular formation adjacent to the Main
City Pyramid (and sharing its alignment) that appears to have
collapsed inward.

In an earlier post, I referred to the following unexplained
formations as evidence that the "Martians" were forced to
subsurface activity in order to maintain life support:

Exhibit A: The Cliff

The Cliff feature is at least as ambiguous at the Fort, in that
there is no known geological mechanism to explain either its
morphology or location.  Like the Crater Pyramid and
Coathanger/Dolphin (see below), this elongated feature is
perched next to a crater.  Ejecta extends about a kilometer
_past_ the Cliff.  As the Cliff appears unscathed, one is forced
to conclude that the Cliff was formed after the meteor impact
that caused the crater (if the Cliff had been present
beforehand, the impact would have obliterated it).

Even more interestingly, the Cliff is situated next to apparent
"excavated terrain," possibly from which the Cliff was built.
Again, this swath of chewed-looking terrain is inconsistent with
any geological explanation.

Finally, and perhaps most excitingly of all, this bizarre
feature looks quite facelike, with eyes, a narrow central ridge
serving as a nose, cheekbones, mouth and chin.  This resemblance
is accentuated when the Cliff is viewed from the south.
Coincidentally (?), there is another unexplained formation south
of the Cliff (the Tholus) that would have provided an unimpeded
view of the Cliff for its hypothetical architects.

It should be noted that the Face, City Pyramid, Fort and Cliff
share identical alignments and are roughly the same size.  The
"splash" nature of the Cliff's adjacent crater is also further
evidence that the Cydonia region was once wet, or perhaps even
partially underwater (and thus more hospitable for life).

Exhibit B: The Tholus

Located directly south of the aforementioned Cliff, the Tholus
is a grooved, blunt "ziggurat" with a dark opening evident on
its side.  This feature is unprecedented and has no known analog
in other Martian dome-shaped formations.  Its ramp-like
structures and hypothesized entrance, coupled with its unique
angular relationship with the Cliff, argue for a non-natural
explanation.

The Tholus is accompanied by a smaller, but similarly grooved
companion feature.  I would argue that the odds of two such
unique formations existing naturally in such close proximity
would be quite low.

Exhibit C: The Crater Pyramid

The Crater Pyramid is a wedge-shaped structures situated on the
rim of a crater (a by now familiar association).  Like the Cliff
(and Coathanger/ Dolphin, discussed below), this feature must
predate the cratering event, as it would have been leveled by
the impact.  Along with being the tallest formation is a
hundred-kilometer radius, the Crater Pyramid displays symmetry
and angles associated with artificial structures.  Its enigma is
strengthened by the presence of the Tunnel Complex, located on a
nearby crater (see #9).

Exhibit D: The Tunnel Complex

This feature consists of a thin, ruler-straight formation
intersected by a number of smaller furrows.  It lies in close
proximity to the Crater Pyramid, and its lack of damage argues
strongly in favor of later construction.  Perhaps the Crater
Pyramid and Tunnel Complex, along with the Cliff, are evidence
of an ancient mining project (possibly to harvest ice or
permafrost from the meteor-blasted soil).

Exhibits E and F: Bowl Complexes 1 and 2

These compelling formations, located by Mark Carlotto using a
non-fractality computer algorithm, are demonstratably unique.
Each consists of a raised, bowl-shaped enclosure (unlike any
noted crater depressions) and a single pyramid.  These pyramids
have been shown to share their alignment with the more
well-known pyramidal features at Cydonia, despite being
relatively far from the "City" complex.  This fact alone tends
to deflate the theory that the Cydonian "pyramids" are actually
naturally occurring faceted mountains.

(Another notable pyramid is the "NK Pyramid," discovered by high
school students while accessing Viking data; it is rather ironic
that the first possible hard evidence of extraterrestrial
intelligence is being discovered by nonprofessionals.  It is
also a painfully obvious demonstration of Kuhn's theory of the
structure of scientific revolution, in which new paradigms
triumph not because the status quo is "won over," but because
those upholding the status quo die off, making room for a
generation of unbiased inquiry.)

As with the Crater Pyramid and Tunnel Complex, there is no
obvious purpose for these features.  The "bowls" resemble radio
telescopes or open-air theaters more than anything else.  The
internal geometry evidenced by both Bowl Complexes is quite
astonishing, with angles and regularity not seen in the
surrounding terrain.

However, the Bowl Complexes have something in common besides
their intrinsic shape: they are both situated near craters,
suggesting a possible need for material associated with impact
ejecta (water ice?)

In conclusion, the formations hypothesized to be the work of
alien architects are not merely weird-looking in themselves, but
reflect a reinforcing sense of purpose that transcends mere
geomorphology.

They form a body of evidence for artificiality that has gone
conveniently unnoticed by the skeptics.  It is my personal
position that they haven't been explained prosaically because
they can't be, at least at existing resolutions.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a newsletter devoted to the immediate implementation of
manned Mars missions and the democratization of space
science, emphasizing the strange formations found in the
Cydonia Mensae region.  This list is not affiliated with any
particular Mars advocacy group.

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

NOW SEEKING: web space for archival puposes and online
petition

Useful websites (note that not all positions represented are
shared with the Cydonian Imperative):

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Mars: Mysteries of the Red Planet:
http://www.mufor.org/mars.html
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
Cydonia 2000: http://welcome.to/cydonia/
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 25

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:44:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:11:30 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:39:09 -0800
 >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Let me remind you that the Turin Shroud, a Holy Relic that was
 >supposed to come from Christ's grave, was submitted to dating
 >evaluation a couple of years ago (late 80s I believe?). The
 >scientists cut out something like a 10 inches by 2 inches piece
 >of the material.

 >Conclusion: a 13th century fraud.

 >Guess what: many people, in knowledge of this fact, still
 >worship the damn (?!) shroud.

Hi Serge.

In light of the latest Shroud of Turin research presented last
summer, including the surprising and unexpected scientific
findings which have now invalidated the carbon dating tests
which lead to the conclusion that it was a 13th century fraud,
your comparison of the alien autopsy film to the Shroud of Turin
actually supports continued research on Ray Santilli's films
rather than closure.

The latest scientific evidence further strengthens the case that
the Shroud of Turin originated in the Middle East and could be
the actual burial cloth of Christ.  Maybe continued
investigation into some of the many still unanswered questions
regarding the alien autopsy film will lead us to very different
conclusions regarding its authenticity too.

Nick Balaskas










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   Jan > Jan 25

                 TMP News: News Briefing - January 25, 2000

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:10:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:13:17 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing - January 25, 2000


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 25, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.25.00



MEDIA
TMP Interviews, Programs, Articles and News Releases

Jeff Rense "Sightings on the Radio" Interview - January 25, 2000
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/rense1-25-00.html



QUANTA
Science and Technology

Building Tomorrow's Space Battleships with Today's Tech
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/spacebattleships.html

Three Giant Black Holes Near Earth
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/blackholes.html

Lifespan of 200 Expected
http://www.usatoday.com/life/health/genetics/lhgec034.htm



BIOSPHERE
Environment

Climate Change and Environmental Surprises Ahead
http://ens.lycos.com/ens/jan2000/2000L-01-19-06.htm



EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

X-PPAC Press Release: "Disclosure 2000 - Is This the Year?""
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/disclosure2000.html

Houston Chronicle Article on Illinois "Starfield Camouflage UFO"
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/433097

UFO Leaves "Snow Circle" in Washington State
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/UFORCE/page20.html

UFO Contact at Trout Lake, Washington?
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/troutlake.html



DREAMLAND
Government Secrecy and Black Projects

Chemtrail Spraying in Full Swing
http://www.sightings.com/politics6/chemswing.htm

Chemtrails Make the News
http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/chemnews.htm

Chemtrails: Biowarfare Chemicals Said Being Tested on Americans
http://www.sightings.com/politics6/guineapigs.htm

Chemtrail Analysis - 90% Normal, 10% Biological Warfare Research
http://www.chemtrails.org/chemtrails/conclusion.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000








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   Jan > Jan 25

                      Re: 'Starfield Camo' Page Updated

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:52:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:16:08 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Starfield Camo' Page Updated


 >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 03:52:21 -0500
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: 'Starfield Camo' Page Updated
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >An index page providing several links for the January 5, 2000
 >report of a 'Starfield Camo' UFO in Illinois has been updated,
 >and might provide some assistance to anyone researching the
 >event.

 >The page is available at:

 >http://home.fuse.net/ufo/missouri99.html


Dear Kenny and list:

I noted with satisfaction that both you and Peter Davenport
rebutted the needless rhetoric and distortions introduced by Joe
Nickell of CSICOP in this matter.

I also see that two separate policemen saw a nearly
instantaneous displacement of several miles in a matter of
perhaps 3 seconds. That was my original question.

The two policemen (as Peter noted) were Craig Stevens of the
Millstadt PD and "Ed" Barton of the Lebanon PD. That's more than
enough.

I am adding the 05JAN2000 Lebanon/Millstadt (and other nearby
places), IL sighting to my database.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                        UFOR Lists Deleted By ONELIST

From: Francisco Lopez <d005734c@DC.SEFLIN.ORG>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:35:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:19:40 -0500
Subject: UFOR Lists Deleted By ONELIST


Please, post as wide as possible.

The UFOR lists were deleted by ONELIST. The subscriber base has
been lost (the file I have got corrupted).

The only access to a UFOR discussion forum is via
www.delphi.com/UFOR

The access code is UFOR.

Will ask KLAATU, at EARTHOPS, for the favor of using again his
server.

Will try to re create the lists in Topica or better, have a
mailer program.

Thank you all for the favor of your membership during all this
11 years.

Francisco
UFOR List Editor









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 25

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:08:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:57:04 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:44:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
 >From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:39:09 -0800
 >>From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>Let me remind you that the Turin Shroud, a Holy Relic that was
 >>supposed to come from Christ's grave, was submitted to dating
 >>evaluation a couple of years ago (late 80s I believe?). The
 >>scientists cut out something like a 10 inches by 2 inches piece
 >>of the material.

 >>Conclusion: a 13th century fraud.

 >>Guess what: many people, in knowledge of this fact, still
 >>worship the damn (?!) shroud.

Hello Nick,

<snip>

 >In light of the latest Shroud of Turin research presented last
 >summer, including the surprising and unexpected scientific
 >findings which have now invalidated the carbon dating tests
 >which lead to the conclusion that it was a 13th century fraud

Do you have any reference to support that? Nah, forget about it.
I just checked the state of the research on the Internet and the
matter is not settled.  Oddly enough, you have a "skeptical"
approach to the Shroud and a "pro, believer" approach to it - or
so they say.  Reminds me of a few things :)

 >your comparison of the alien autopsy film to the Shroud of Turin
 >actually supports continued research on Ray Santilli's films
 >rather than closure.

No, no. I brought up the Shroud example only to illustrate the
fact that facts are no match against beliefs.

<snip>

 >Maybe continued
 >investigation into some of the many still unanswered questions
 >regarding the alien autopsy film will lead us to very different
 >conclusions regarding its authenticity too.

A surprising leap of logic from a scientific mind. Please
explain to me how the nature of a character like Ray Santilli
can give any credibility to the AA film?

How can you make Santilli and the AA film two separate issues?

Serge








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: ed gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:26:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:04:17 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:56:34 -0600
To: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
To: updates@sympatico.ca

Roger,

 >This is not true. The improper use of containment suits is one
 >of the most glaring examples.

Its not clear to me where you got this information. I think it
qualifies as more hearsay, similar to the information supplied
by the three cameramen trotted out by Kent Jeffrey in his hit
piece. Lots of talk but no substance. (this is another
question: who do we believe and why)

Non-military doctors, which I maintain these are, might have
worn their suits any way they pleased. Were you in the military?
SOP was hardly ever followed, just given lip service. There was
wide variation. Ever heard of SNAFU? Besides I also believe
that these suits might have been worn to keep folks from
identifying them but not for the purpose you outlined but to
keep their identities secret for national security reasons.

Anyway thats why I think the wearing of the hazard suits, though
interesting doesn't qualify for a historical anomaly. But if
the hoaxers were as careless as they would seem to be if you are
correct, then they should have made a few more mistakes. Where
are they? There is a mass of historical traps but none, I
repeat, none have surfaced.

 >I've spent many hours in the operating room
 >early in my career documenting operations and other surgical
 >procedures on 16mm film. The techniques and methods presented in
 >AA are "Hollywood" versions of what an audience might expect to
 >find in an operating room; not what really exists.

I totally disagree. I was an orderly for three years during
college and then again after I left the service, most of that in
ER or surgery. Not only did I see hundreds of doctors in action
but I also assisted them on a daily basis and they explained
what they were doing and why. Both these doctors are surgeons,
probably not pathologists. This is a dissection, not an autopsy
but the way the doctors touch the creature and hold their
scalpels cannot be taught in acting class. This was the first
thing I noticed when viewing the film and I thought they were
very convincing. I realize this is subjective but so are your
observations.

There are doctors who have seen the AA and they agree with me on
this point.


 >This is not true. Name one special effects expert that has
 >attempted to duplicate the alien and failed. Tell us where we
 >can see the results. I work in special effects on a daily basis
 >and would like to study the attempts you speak of. If you can't
 >direct us to a web site, then how about a name and address so I
 >can talk to these "effects experts" that have tried in vain to
 >duplicate AA. Or is this another claim you've pulled out of thin
 >air?

You should read more carefully. I never stated some had
attempted and failed. As far as I know, none of these guys, who
talk a good game have even tried. Why? Because they couldn't
succeed. Talk is cheap; doing takes money and time. The AA was
no simple undertaking if it's hoaxed.

 >More to the point: Just because I and others in the effects
 >field haven't spent out own time and money duplicating what is
 >seen in AA doesn't mean that we can't do it. I simply do not
 >need to waste a single dollar proving to you what is obvious to
 >me.

More hot air! Make a hand or a foot, something to show you care;
not just big talk and nothing else.


 >But I have to agree
 >with you that there is no proof that Ray has the talent or
 >historical knowledge to pull this off successfully.

See we can agree to some things. Since this is the case, how
_did_ he do it?

 >"I have seen no compelling evidence that there is anything
 >extraterrestrial involved in this event at all."
 >Please explain how this is positive support that the alien and AA is
 >real?

Yes he said that but the post as a whole was positive. He
certainly didn't say it was a video and nothing else. I don't
necessarily believe that the creature is an ET either. But we
can never get to the stage where we can discuss the nature of
the creature or the debris because you insist that it is all a
fake and there's no point in discussing a hoax. That's why I
continue to write about this subject. It has not been given a
fair hearing, nor have all the possibilities been hashed out.

 >Bob merely maintains that the film is old copy film. He has not
 >seen a frame of film (dupe or original) with the alien on it.

<snip>

 >Instead he
 >is given a blank piece of Xerox paper and told by Ray,"Well,
 >it's just like the paper that the Dead Sea Scroll was copied
 >on!". Where is the value in that?

I don't get it; can't you read. How many times do I have to post
this. Is Bob lying here or what? I have now physically
examined a section of the film, a section showing the "autopsy"
room before the body was placed on the table, but clearly
consistent with the later footage. The film on which this was
shot is Cine Kodak Super XX, a film type which was discontinued
in 1956-57. Since the edge code could be 1927, 1947 or 1967, and
this film was not manufactured in 1927 or 1967, this clearly
leaves us with only 1947 as an option.""

 >the only person confused about the issue of whether a dupe or original
 >exists is you. You constantly demand that everyone toe the line
 >and provide evidence to back up their claims or opinions.

Why don't you tell me why you find this so significant. If it
is copied, then it was copied in 1947 or thereabouts and since
all agree that there simply wasn't the technology to hoax the AA
at that time, then it must be legitimate. Isn't that what TDC
stated clearly on their web site. As I have said and will say
again, the nature of the film ie copied, not copied, original
duped and so forth is very confusing to most folks, not just me.
And you all continue to muddy the waters more by the way you
argue your case. If it is a copy, how does that work into the
whole story and why is that so damaging. If Ray was fooled into
buying a copy, so what? Did the cameraman hoax Ray? How did he
put this all together? Just give me some scenario that accounts
for how this all came down, some place where we can start to
unravel this mystery.

No, I have never seen the original film projected.

I have never seen a frame of the original film with the alien
on it.

I have never seen the dupe of the film projected.

I have never seen a frame of the dupe film with the alien on
it.

I have never met the cameraman face to face.

I have never talked to the cameraman at all.

Where did that get us?

 >How do you account for the lack of repeated frames that would be
 >present if the film were transferred to video? (see Michael
Lennick's excellent post on the subject)

I'm the first to admit that I am not a technical person; I'm a
historian, but are you saying here that there was not any film
at all and there was just a video made and then made to look
like it was shot in 16mm. (like the tent footage) Why don't you
show us how that might be done; just a few seconds if its so
easy. Did you bother to read the discussion of the debris?

Explain it away.










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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:29:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:20:30 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:42:28 -0400
 >To: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >It could have been sitting on some shelf in Hollywood or
 >elsewhere for a long long time. Ray then becomes somebody taking
 >advantage of public interest and gullibility.

Stan,

Where is your evidence for this? I have mentioned this to you
before...I defend and admire your research but you are doing to
Ray exactly what others have done and continue to do to you. You
have no proof for your statements. Yes the AA could have been
made on the moon but let's stick with what seems probable or
plausible. Even if it had been sitting on a shelf somewhere for
years, it seems logical that we would be able to account for the
manufacturing process that created the debris. How do you
explain the debris and its unfamilar characterists? When you
read the debris analysis (don't tell me you didn't bother)
didn't you see similarities between it and the Roswell debris
ie. lack of mass, durability, not flamable? If you can't explain
the debris in some intelligent manner, then don't you think its
reasonable to take another look at the AA?

 >As I pointed out in the entire chapter devoted to AA in my book
 >TOP SECRET/MAJIC, just about everything Ray told me in our first
 >conversation turned out to be a lie.

Everyone doesn't have access to your wonderful and informative
books, so why not list these "lies" for all to read since you've
used them many times as your reason for nixing the AA. (You make
them sound so ominous)

Also you need to explain to the list that you offered Ray
$100,000 for the footage and he turned you down. (I know it was
for someone else but you should mention it, none the less) Not
that this disqualifies you from the discussion since I agree
that money can be the name of the game.

Ed








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               Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:17:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:27:53 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?


 >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:29:00 -0700
 >From: Roger R. Prokic <rprokic@pobox.com>
 >Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:06:51 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Paul B. Thompson <MrApol@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:22:25 -0800
 >>>From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
 >>>Subject: NASA Finds Evidence That The Bible Is True?
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>I just received this. I am trying to find a source to verify.

 >>>Anyone else heard of this one?

 >>I heard this old canard back in the 1960s when I was in
 >>elementary school. It's so ridiculous as to not bear much
 >>examination.

 >>How, pray tell, can NASA or anyone else "predict the position of
 >>the sun, moon, planets, etc" when these bodies follow the same
 >>general pattern they have for millions of years? It's tantamount
 >>to saying you're projecting the calendar forward 5,000 years and
 >>finding that Saturday March 10 of the year 2321 is "missing."
 >>Huh? Show some sense, people!

 >>This is a bit of modern folklore. Ignorant, credulous, folklore.
 >Other errors in that post.
 >Astronauts are resident at Johnson Space Center only, not
 >Goddard. NASA doesn't even do mission analysis for 20 years in
 >the future, let alone 100 years or 1000 years.

 >Roger

And of course the biggest error... satellites we launch aren't
going to bump into any planets. The satellites are in near-earth
orbits, while the planets are millions of miles away.

Greg Sandow








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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 25

             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:03:40 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:39:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality


 >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:29:52 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:17:21 +0000
 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:04:15 +0000
 >>>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Criteria for Artificiality
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Hi All & Dave,

 >>>>I most certainly do not ignore the professionals since I am a
 >>>>professional 2D/3D graphic artists myself. There have been many
 >>>>occasions when I have been presented with original video footage
 >>>>for analysis, sometimes with some surprising results I might
 >>>>add.

 >>I have spent many a night around Dave's place studying UFO video
 >>tapes, and UFO movie files amongst others. And I have had the
 >>chance to see Dave at work with the Graphic side of things, I
 >>can only say amazing work. ( I wish I had his set up) I wish he
 >>would post his web site address for all to see!

 >>>I have studied all the data from Cydonia and my conclusion is:
 >>>you're wasting your time, it's just rocks.

 >>There is another word for it Dave, only I can't remember the
 >>spelling?

 >Hi Roy,

 >I believe the word you are looking for is simulacra, created
 >naturally in rock, clouds, tree stumps etc, perceived by humans
 >as a face, a dolphin, a pelican or whatever.

Hi, Dave, Dr. Knapp, Et and all the ships at sea.

Dah dit dah dit
dah dah dit dah


Because the bastards threw out CW doesn't mean _I_ hafta!

The word "Similacrum" was used way back in the sixties by NASA
to refer to an artificial light source which was designed to
"look like" specific stars. The lights were used to test the
ability of star tracking devices to "acquire" and track a star
of specific magnitude and color temperature.

I just thought I would pass that along. By the way, the CW
stands for code work [Nope! Carrier Wave --ebk, ex-telegraphist]
and is the name we l'homme anciennes (uh, old farts) use for
international Morse Code. All the ships at sea now use voice and
data modes of communication and no longer use the Morse Code.
What I said in Morse was CQ. It's a dirty word, don't repeat it
to your friends, please.

Even the Federal Communications Commission, in their infinite
wisdom (that's supposed to be funny) reduced the code
requirement for amateur radio operators here in the states from
requiring licensed hams to be able to copy up to 25 words per
minute. Now, everyone has to be able to copy at least 5 wpm.
Hell, I can copy up to forty in my head. But only on Gripple.

What does this mean? What's it got to do with Upadatsa (I'm
Italian) stuff? Nuttin. Nuttin at all. Just like falling ice
and Pelican quanno.

Anyone out there still use 160 meter CW? I didn't think so.
"I make shoes for everyone, even you. And I still go barefoot."

Doccatore J. Jaime Gesundt

"One more Ph.D. for the road
One more Ph.D. 'for I go
To the valley below


Dit dah dit dah dit --ebk








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 25

             Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:42:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:52:11 -0500
Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists


ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
Tuesday, January 25, 2000 | 6:22 a.m.

Recent UFO sightings in area lack credibility to scientists
By Heather Ratcliffe Of The Post-Dispatch

Stacy McKenna rubbed her eyes. Once. Twice.

Was she really watching three UFOs hovering over south St. Louis
during rush hour traffic?

"I just kept rubbing my eyes because I thought if I rubbed them
hard enough, they would go away," said McKenna, 28, a college
student and waitress.

The objects she saw about 5:45 p.m. Jan. 10 were shaped like
triangles with white lights at each point, she said.

"At first they were just two bouncing, glowing lights. Then
another one dropped out of the sky," she said. "It was so huge,
I screamed because I thought I was going to hit it."

McKenna and dozens of St. Louis-area residents have seen what
they thought was an alien spacecraft since the first UFO report
Jan. 5 by a Highland man and four police officers in the Metro
East area.

McKenna spent two days rationalizing the sighting, which
occurred on Utah Street as she headed toward Interstate 55. She
talked to friends, surfed the Internet for pictures and visited
the same spot at the same time she first saw the UFOs.

Finally, she called the newspaper to report her encounter.

"I didn't believe in UFOs before," she said. "But I'm certainly
intrigued now."

Experts say movies and television shows such as "X-Files" have
created a culture in which people are quicker to suppose some
unusual object in the sky is an alien craft.

In that atmosphere, witnesses may feel more comfortable
reporting what they saw -- or think they saw. And when they do,
officials may not be as quick to dismiss them as crazy.

McKenna may have seen an extraterrestrial aircraft. But
scientists say it was more likely an episode of a
"social-psychological phenomenon," in which people believe they
see a UFO because they are looking for one.

"I've often said that if anyone will spend one hour looking in
the sky on a clear night, he or she will see a UFO," said
Phillip Klass, founder of the Committee of the Scientific
Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal, in Washington.

"Most UFO reports, especially lights in the night sky, turn out
to be honest misidentifications," he said.

Reporting a UFO

Stephen Winnacott, an English teacher at East St. Louis High
School, said he saw a strange aircraft at about 6:45 a.m. that
same morning of the police officers' reports on Jan. 5.

"It was triangular shaped with lights all on one side," he said.

Winnacott told his wife and children, but didn't think much
about it until he read an article in the Post-Dispatch.

"All its takes is one sighting report, and within days you will
have thousands more," said Robert Baker, a professor emeritus of
psychology at the University of Kentucky. "Everybody starts
looking up in the sky and seeing things, too."

This pattern is called a "social-psychological phenomenon," said
Baker, who has interviewed thousands of witnesses who claimed to
have seen UFOs.

When people spot something strange in the sky, they first try to
make sense of it, scientists said.

"It's a giant leap of faith that people take when they see
lights in the sky to say it's a craft from another planet," said
James McGaha, an astronomer and former Air Force pilot in
Tucson, Ariz., who investigates UFO reports.

Witnesses apply what they heard about UFOs in the past and soon
their perceptions become reality. Then their stories usually
sharpen with time and the truth gets lost, Baker said.

Winnacott, along with a handful of other witnesses who reported
UFOs this month, said he didn't really believe aliens have
visited Earth.

"Before this experience, I was skeptical," Winnacott said. "But
now that I have seen something unexplainable, I will put more
credibility in other UFO reports."

"People believe me"

Barry Beyerstein, a professor of psychological biology at Simon
Fraiser University in Vancouver, British Columbia, said, "In the
past, people who saw things were less likely to report it
because of fear of the repercussions. That stigma has largely
dissipated."

Winnacott said he never felt apprehensive about telling his
story.

"People believe me," he said.

Commercial airline pilots have taken their planes off course to
avoid hitting things that later turned out to be the planet
Venus or stars, experts said.

"Smart, honest, good people can still be seriously wrong about
seeing a UFO," said Beyerstein, who has researched sightings for
decades.

The power of suggestion may play a role: If somebody says a
bright light is a UFO, others will measure it against that
expectation and the perception may become their reality.

UFO researchers said they don't count on witnesses to describe
sightings accurately.

"People are notoriously bad at recollecting what they saw,"
McGaha said. "You can't put any credibility into their reports
-- even police -- because they are not trained to observe
anything in the sky or an astronomic anomaly, " he said.

"I've been with Air Force pilots who thought they were seeing a
UFO. But it was actually the moon," McGaha said. "I've seen
people look at Venus and say they could see portholes on a
spaceship."

Observers struggle, unknowingly, with distance, time and size,
he said.

Unless you know how large an object is supposed to be, you
cannot figure its distance; unless you know its distance, you
cannot determine its size, McGaha said. People reporting UFOs
have neither point of reference.

"Time compression also occurs during extreme experiences," he
said. "People can see things for 20 seconds, but think 10
minutes have passed."

In a study of about 1,000 UFO sightings in the 1970s, the Center
for UFO Studies concluded that about 90 percent of the reports
were actually stars, planets, planes, meteors or the moon.

What did they see?

"Like a two-story house..."

At about 4:11 a.m. Jan. 5, a St. Clair County police dispatcher
sent a call out to the Lebanon officer on duty.

"Lebanon, this a call from Highland PD in reference to a truck
driver who just stopped in. He said there was a flying object in
the area of Lebanon. It was like a two-story house. It had white
lights and red blinking lights, and it was last seen southwest
over Lebanon. Could you check the area?"

About two minutes later, Officer Ed Barton sent a message back:

"... Be advised there is a very bright white light east of town.
It looks like it's just east of Summerfield, and it keeps
changing colors. I'll go over there and see if it looks like an
aircraft. It doesn't look like an aircraft, though. .o.o. It's
not the moon, and it's not a star."

Over about a seven-minute time span, three other police officers
-- from Dupo, Millstadt and Shiloh -- saw the object. None can
explain what he saw.

Klass, often called the dean of UFO research, said the object,
described as flying slowly and silently, was probably a hoax or
some kind of a balloon with intense lights or flares.

"I would suspect this report is bogus," Klass said.

A National Weather Service spokesman said it has no weather
balloons that would reach the Metro East area.

Officials at Scott Air Force Base, which is near the sightings,
said nothing like what was sighted is based at the airfield. The
military also does not fly any low-level training or testing
routes in the area, the spokesman said.

The sky that morning was partly cloudy and there was an unusual
condition in which a layer of warm air sits on top of cold air
at the surface. Meteorologists said that can reflect light in
odd-looking ways.

Venus is also very bright in the eastern sky this time of year,
said McGaha.

Klass said, "For 50 years, we've gotten reports such as this,
but not a single piece of credible evidence to support these
claims."

********

"There is a very bright white light east of town..."

Excerpts from a seven-minute recording of the St. Clair County
police dispatcher talking to officers, beginning about 4:11 a.m.
Jan. 5.

Dispatcher:      Lebanon, this a call from Highland PD in
                  reference to a truck driver who just stopped in.
                  He said there was a flying object in the area
                  of Lebanon. It was like a two-story house. It
                  had white lights and red blinking lights, and
                  it was last seen southwest over Lebanon. Could
                  you check the area?

Lebanon officer: Did they say the truck driver was DUI or
                  anything? 10-4, I'm out... Just a quick
                  question. If I happened to find it, what am
                  I supposed to do with it? If I see it, I'm
                  not saying a word...

                  Also be advised the last thing that went over
                  Lebanon -- this was approximately five minutes
                  ago -- was a military cargo plane. It looked
                  like a C-5.

                  ... Be advised there is a very bright white
                  light east of town. It looks like it's just
                  east of Summerfield, and it keeps changing
                  colors. I'll go over there and see if it looks
                  like an aircraft. It doesn't look like an
                  aircraft, though... It's not the moon, and
                  it's not a star.

If you would, will you contact Scott Air Force Base and see if they have
anything flying in this area please?

Whether it's a plane or not, it's heading westbound now. It should be really
close to Scott now. . . . As a matter of fact, if the Shiloh officer looks
up, they can probably see it by now.

Shiloh officer:    I see something, but I don't know what the
                    heck it is.... It's probably heading to Lambert
                    (Field).

(Radio chatter)

Millstadt officer: I've got that object in sight also.

Dispatcher: Are you serious?

Millstadt officer: It's huge.

Dispatcher:        ... Does it look like a -- What does it look
                    like to you?

Millstadt officer: It's kind of V-shaped. It looks like it's
                    possibly headed toward Lambert.

Dispatcher: 10-4.  That's what Shiloh said when it was heading
                    towards Fairview Heights.

(One of the officers hums theme song to "Twilight Zone" over his radio.)

Millstadt officer: Really.

Millstadt officer: Does Dupo have a Polaroid?

Dispatcher:        That, I don't know.

Dupo officer:      6004, this is 3923 on County (radio channel)
                    2.

Millstadt officer: 6004, go ahead.

Dupo officer:      I'm not sure what you're seeing. It appears
                    to be pretty high in the area. When I could
                    first see it with binoculars, you could see
                    it was different colors. Now it appears to
                    be white.

Millstadt officer: Is it very large?

Dupo officer:      It's hard to tell. It's pretty far off in
                    the distance.

Millstadt officer: This object was above me about 500 feet.
                    And it was huge.

Dupo officer:      This thing appears.... it's probably 20 or
                    30,000. It about where planes usually are.
                    It's not low at all.

--

UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 25

                              The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:55:40 -0500
Subject: The Eyes Have It


Dear all,

Since the list is quiet at the moment and the topic of
conversation seems to consist of the AA, Martian face and the
occasional Pelican I thought I would take the opportunity to
share something with you all.

As I'm sure you have gathered by now I am a graphic artist, I work
sometimes in 2D but mostly in 3D.

Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
features.

The 3D model was to look like the description most people give,
that's ok, we've all seen them on T-shirts and keyrings etc, I'm
game.

Anyway, cutting to the chase, after working on this I found
these things to be impossible creatures.

Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
each other at the bridge of the nose).

I tried making the head bigger and bringing the eyes much
further apart to incorporate the eyeball size, the result looked
very unlike the description most people give and would still
leave little room for a brain.

Next time someone draws a sketch of an alien that supposedly
abducted them, look at the eyes.

Imagine looking down on the creature so you can see the contour
of the eye and follow it round and you'll see what I mean.

Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
interest.

Dave








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 25

                     Skeptics Question Midwest Sightings

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:38:16 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:59:57 -0500
Subject: Skeptics Question Midwest Sightings

Greetings list -

Couldn't help but laugh a bit while reading this article. The
"experts" in this article sure do a great job of pulling out all
the stops. This could be a candidate for debunking article of
the year.

From: http://insidedenver.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=UFO-SIGHTING-01-25-00&cat=AN

Midwest UFO sightings lack credibility to scientists
By HEATHER RATCLIFFE
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
January 25, 2000

Stacy McKenna rubbed her eyes. Was she really watching three
UFOs hovering over south St. Louis during rush hour traffic?

"I just kept rubbing my eyes because I thought if I rubbed them
hard enough, they would go away," said McKenna, 28, a college
student and waitress.

The objects she saw about 5:45 p.m. CST on Jan. 10 were shaped
like triangles with white lights at each point, she said.

"At first they were just two bouncing, glowing lights. Then
another one dropped out of the sky," she said. "It was so huge,
I screamed because I thought I was going to hit it."

McKenna and dozens of St. Louis-area residents have seen what
they thought was an alien spacecraft since the first UFO report
Jan. 5 by a Highland, Ill., man and four police officers.

McKenna spent two days rationalizing the sighting, which
occurred as she headed toward Interstate 55. She talked to
friends, surfed the Internet for pictures and visited the same
spot at the same time she first saw the UFOs.

Finally, she called the St. Louis Post-Dispatch to report her
encounter.

"I didn't believe in UFOs before," she said. "But I'm certainly
intrigued now."

Experts say movies and television shows such as "X-Files" have
created a culture in which people are quicker to suppose some
unusual object in the sky is an alien craft.

In that atmosphere, witnesses may feel more comfortable
reporting what they saw - or think they saw. And when they do,
officials may not be as quick to dismiss them as crazy.

McKenna may have seen an extraterrestrial aircraft. But
scientists say it was more likely an episode of a
"social-psychological phenomenon," in which people believe they
see a UFO because they are looking for one.

"I've often said that if anyone will spend one hour looking in
the sky on a clear night, he or she will see a UFO," said
Phillip Klass, founder of the Committee of the Scientific
Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal, in Washington, D.C.

"Most UFO reports, especially lights in the night sky, turn out
to be honest misidentifications," he said.

Stephen Winnacott, an English teacher at East St. Louis (Ill.)
High School, said he saw a strange aircraft at about 6:45 a.m.
that same morning of the police officers' reports on Jan. 5. "It
was triangular shaped with lights all on one side," he said.

Winnacott told his wife and children, but didn't think much
about it until he read an article about it.

"All its takes is one sighting report, and within days you will
have thousands more," said Robert Baker, a professor emeritus of
psychology at the University of Kentucky. "Everybody starts
looking up in the sky and seeing things, too."

This pattern is called a "social-psychological phenomenon," said
Baker, who has interviewed thousands of witnesses who claimed to
have seen UFOs.

When people spot something strange in the sky, they first try to
make sense of it, scientists said.

"It's a giant leap of faith that people take when they see
lights in the sky to say it's a craft from another planet," said
James McGaha, an astronomer and former Air Force pilot in
Tucson, Ariz., who investigates UFO reports.

Witnesses apply what they heard about UFOs in the past and soon
their perceptions become reality. Then their stories usually
sharpen with time and the truth gets lost, Baker said.

Winnacott, along with a handful of other witnesses who reported
UFOs this month, said he didn't really believe aliens have
visited Earth.

"Before this experience, I was skeptical," Winnacott said. "But
now that I have seen something unexplainable, I will put more
credibility in other UFO reports."

Barry Beyerstein, a professor of psychological biology at Simon
Fraiser University in Vancouver, British Columbia, said, "In the
past, people who saw things were less likely to report it
because of fear of the repercussions. That stigma has largely
dissipated."

Winnacott said he never felt apprehensive about telling his
story. "People believe me," he said.

Commercial airline pilots have taken their planes off course to
avoid hitting things that later turned out to be the planet
Venus or stars, experts said.

"Smart, honest, good people can still be seriously wrong about
seeing a UFO," said Beyerstein, who has researched sightings for
decades.

The power of suggestion may play a role: If somebody says a
bright light is a UFO, others will measure it against that
expectation and the perception may become their reality.

UFO researchers said they don't count on witnesses to describe
sightings accurately.

"People are notoriously bad at recollecting what they saw,"
McGaha said. "You can't put any credibility into their reports -
even police - because they are not trained to observe anything
in the sky or an astronomic anomaly," he said.

"I've been with Air Force pilots who thought they were seeing a
UFO. But it was actually the moon," McGaha said. "I've seen
people look at Venus and say they could see portholes on a
spaceship."

Observers struggle, unknowingly, with distance, time and size,
he said. Unless you know how large an object is supposed to be,
you cannot figure its distance; unless you know its distance,
you cannot determine its size, McGaha said. People reporting
UFOs have neither point of reference.

"Time compression also occurs during extreme experiences," he
said. "People can see things for 20 seconds, but think 10
minutes have passed."

In a study of about 1,000 UFO sightings in the 1970s, the Center
for UFO Studies concluded that about 90 percent of the reports
were actually stars, planets, planes, meteors or the moon.

At about 4:11 a.m. Jan. 5, a St. Clair, Ill., County police
dispatcher sent a call out to the Lebanon, Ill., officer on
duty.

"Lebanon, this a call from Highland PD in reference to a truck
driver who just stopped in. He said there was a flying object in
the area of Lebanon. It was like a two-story house. It had white
lights and red blinking lights, and it was last seen southwest
over Lebanon. Could you check the area?"

About two minutes later, Officer Ed Barton sent a message back:

"... Be advised there is a very bright white light east of town.
It looks like it's just east of Summerfield, and it keeps
changing colors. I'll go over there and see if it looks like an
aircraft. It doesn't look like an aircraft, though. ... It's not
the moon, and it's not a star."

Over about a seven-minute time span, three other police officers
from Dupo, Millstadt and Shiloh saw the object. None can explain
what he saw.

Klass, often called the dean of UFO research, said the object,
described as flying slowly and silently, was probably a hoax or
some kind of a balloon with intense lights or flares. "I would
suspect this report is bogus," Klass said.

A National Weather Service spokesman said it has no weather
balloons that would reach the area.

Officials at Scott Air Force Base, which is near the sightings,
said nothing like what was sighted is based at the airfield. The
military also does not fly any low-level training or testing
routes in the area, the spokesman said.

The sky that morning was partly cloudy and there was an unusual
condition in which a layer of warm air sits on top of cold air
at the surface. Meteorologists said that can reflect light in
odd-looking ways.

Venus is also very bright in the eastern sky this time of year,
said McGaha.

Klass said, "For 50 years, we've gotten reports such as this,
but not a single piece of credible evidence to support these
claims."

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com











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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 26

                       Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:29:12 +1100
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:34:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

 >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:54:48 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:13:05 +0800
 >>From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >>Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Maybe it was alien ice cubes, to go with Gripple, which they
 >drink a lot of. And of course, alien ice cubes are made in
 >special alien molds.  And they come out really hard.

 >>Then there is the exponential increase in recent days - 20
 >>chunks of ice found on Tuesday alone. At least half a dozen were
 >>quickly proven to be practical jokes - including a seven-pound
 >>block with perfectly sharp edges.

 >I told you about that already.  But I still find it really
 >difficult to imagine how them dudes got the ice there.  I mean,
 >did they rent a small aircraft with a large fridge in it?  And
 >then push the hard ice out the side door?  Or maybe it really
 >was pelicans and they pooped and tinkled whilst really high.  In
 >the air I mean. And the stuff froze on the way down.  Huh?

 >The moral of this story, the moral of this tome, is that one
 >should never be, where one does not belong.  Meaning, methinks,
 >that pelican poop, pelican tinkle, ice from the sky, the answer
 >to the question of God the Universe and Everything, matters not
 >one dot.  Unless you guys are really hard up for a dose of
 >something to say on the subject of UFOs and related stuff.

 >Hell, I would almost prefer to hear from Dennis Stacey than this
 >stuff.

 >Well.... almost anyway.


Hi Jim

I found this artical but it would appear these guys dont agree
with each other  never the less its interesting:>)

Regards Diane
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

U. Washington Physicist says little comets are black snow on
screen http://www.trufax.org/level2/level2.shtml

Giant snowballs in space? No, says researcher, they're simply
black snow on the TV screen

Contact: David Brand, UW News and Information. Phone:
(206)-543-2580. Fax: (206)-685-0658.

San Francisco -- When University of Iowa space physicist Louis
Frank presented his evidence last May, he had much of thescience
community shivering with anticipation. He claimed to have
discovered 20- to 40-ton cosmic snowballs, the size ofhouses,
pelting the Earth at the rate of 30,000 a day. What's more,
Frank presented images he had captured of the giant snowballs.

But the snowballs may not exist. University of Washington geophysicist
George Parks has analyzed Frank's ultraviolet (UV)camera images and has
concluded that the white snow in space is no more than black "snow" on the
television screen.

After a close analysis of one hour of data supplied by Frank,
Parks says he and his collaborators are certain that Frank has
beenlooking at "instrument noise. " It is very similar, says
Parks, "to the static you hear on your hi-fi."

Frank and Parks will debate the real vs. phantom snowballs here
today at the fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union in
San Francisco (Dec. 9 at 4 p.m.).

Frank first proposed his theory of the cosmic snowballs --
actually small comets -- in 1986, but the idea was widely
discredited. Then, earlier this year, he presented evidence from
the Polar satellite, which carries an instrument that can
produce both UV and visible light images. Frank compared the
same spots on both types of image and concluded that these were
clear evidence of the existence of the comets.

Parks says that at first he was "agnostic" towards Frank's data.
But when he saw the  far more detailed images from the Polar
camera he became suspicious. It was simply  unlikely, he says,
that the clusters of spots on the images could have been caused
by snowballs in space. Parks began an analysis of his own images
taken with the  Ultraviolet Imager (UVI) on the NASA Polar
satellite. There he found the same dark spots that Frank had
found on his images.

He grew even more uneasy about Frank's analysis when he found
that the UVI had  recorded the same dark spots while pointed at
a UV light in the laboratory.

When Parks began a minute examination of the images, made by
breaking the clusters  of spots down into tiny picture point, or
pixels, he found statistical evidence that he was  seeing not
real events, but what he calls an "instrument artifact."

After Parks had detailed his analysis in an article for
Geophysical Research Letters,  Frank released one hour of data
that overlapped with Parks' UVI images.  Parks has made  a
comparison  of the two and now believes, even more emphatically,
that Frank has been attempting to interpret  background noise.

What is causing the spots on the images? Park blames the very
complexity of the cameras  themselves, which consist of a number
of parts, including optics, an image intensifier that  includes
a device for multiplying electrons, a TV screen and a
light-gathering charge-coupled  device. Parks suspects that the
dark spots change character as the camera's high voltage is
varied.

Parks claims that Frank has taken complex images and selected
only one tiny area as evidence of the comets' existence. "He
never shows the full image because it always looks  corrupted by
noise," he says.

Is Parks then denying the existence of cosmic snowballs? "The
burden is on Frank, he's  got to prove they exist," Parks says.
"He is seeing things that are scientifically not permitted.  It
would, for example, be easy for me to say these dark spots are
UFOs, but it would be up to me to prove it."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb760221

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>








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   Jan > Jan 26

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:41:20 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
 >eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
 >within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
 >to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >I tried making the head bigger and bringing the eyes much
 >further apart to incorporate the eyeball size, the result looked
 >very unlike the description most people give and would still
 >leave little room for a brain.

 >Next time someone draws a sketch of an alien that supposedly
 >abducted them, look at the eyes.

 >Imagine looking down on the creature so you can see the contour
 >of the eye and follow it round and you'll see what I mean.

 >Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >interest.


I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
lenses.

So I've read anyway.

For what its worth ...

-Brian








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   Jan > Jan 26

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:51:38 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >From: Ed Gehrman
 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:26:11 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:04:17 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:56:34 -0600
 >To: Roger Evans
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, I had written:

 >>This is not true. The improper use of containment suits is one
 >>of the most glaring examples.

Ed replies:

 >Its not clear to me where you got this information. I think it
 >qualifies as more hearsay

<snip>

 >Non-military doctors, which I maintain these are, might have
 >worn their suits any way they pleased. Were you in the military?
 >SOP was hardly ever followed, just given lip service. There was
 >wide variation. Ever heard of SNAFU?

Gee, Ed. Make up your mind. On the one hand you maintain that
I'm dead wrong because the containment suit issue is nothing but
"hearsay"; on the other hand, you go to great lengths to try and
justify the improper usage that you just said didn't exist!

Moving on I wrote:

 >>I've spent many hours in the operating room
 >>early in my career documenting operations and other surgical
 >>procedures on 16mm film. The techniques and methods presented in
 >>AA are "Hollywood" versions of what an audience might expect to
 >>find in an operating room; not what really exists.

Ed replied:

 >I totally disagree. I was an orderly for three years during
 >college and then again after I left the service, most of that in
 >ER or surgery. Not only did I see hundreds of doctors in action
 >but I also assisted them on a daily basis and they explained
 >what they were doing and why.

More nonsense from Ed. Orderly's are not used the operating room
under any condition. Operating rooms are restricted to vital
personal only. And just how much "dissection" did you see while
working in the ER, Ed?

Continuing, Ed offered:

 >Both these doctors are surgeons,
 >probably not pathologists.

They are neither, Ed. They are actors, and not very convincing
ones.

Moving on, Ed wrote:

 >There are doctors who have seen the AA and they agree with me on
 >this point.

I would ask for names of these doctors but I know you'll dodge
the question like you did on the following topic concerning
effects. I had written:

 >>Name one special effects expert that has
 >>attempted to duplicate the alien and failed. Tell us where we
 >>can see the results. I work in special effects on a daily basis
 >>and would like to study the attempts you speak of. If you can't
 >>direct us to a web site, then how about a name and address so I
 >>can talk to these "effects experts" that have tried in vain to
 >>duplicate AA. Or is this another claim you've pulled out of thin
 >>air?

Your incredible reply is as follows:

 >You should read more carefully. I never stated some had
 >attempted and failed.

Ed, this is getting embarrassing. Following is an exact excerpt
of what you wrote:

 >>Not one of the special effects experts has been able to recreate the
 >>creature or anything resembling the creature or any part of the
 >>creature. Many have talked about how easy it would be, but no
 >>one has succeeded.

And you claim to be an historian?

Don't you even bother to check the archives before you write
this stuff?

Continuing, I declared:

 >>More to the point: Just because I and others in the effects
 >>field haven't spent out own time and money duplicating what is
 >>seen in AA doesn't mean that we can't do it. I simply do not
 >>need to waste a single dollar proving to you what is obvious to
 >>me.

Ed's reply:

 >More hot air! Make a hand or a foot, something to show you care;
 >not just big talk and nothing else.

Hey, Ed! I've got an even easier idea! Why don't you give us
some evidence to back up your claims about the special effects
and the doctors and the containment suits! How about a name and
address; something to show you care; not just big talk and
nothing else.

Ultimately I wrote:

 >>But I have to agree
 >>with you that there is no proof that Ray has the talent or
 >>historical knowledge to pull this off successfully.

Your reply:

 >See we can agree to some things. Since this is the case, how
 >_did_ he do it?

Irony is lost on you, Ed. I said he didn't do it
"successfully"..... ;)

Continuing, Bob Shell had written:

 >>"I have seen no compelling evidence that there is anything
 >>extraterrestrial involved in this event at all."

To which I asked:

 >>Please explain how this is positive support that the alien and
 >>AA is real?

Now your position is:

 >I don't necessarily believe that the creature is an ET either.

Then what's the point of all this if it's not?

And finally, I asked:

 >>How do you account for the lack of repeated frames that would be
 >>present if the film were transferred to video? (see Michael
 >>Lennick's excellent post on the subject)

Ed replied:

 >I'm the first to admit that I am not a technical person; I'm a
 >historian, but are you saying here that there was not any film
 >at all and there was just a video made and then made to look
 >like it was shot in 16mm. (like the tent footage) Why don't you
 >show us how that might be done; just a few seconds if its so
 >easy.

Okay, Ed. It works like this:

Video (in the US) is shot at 30 frames per second. (actually,
it's more like 29.94, I believe, but we'll round it to 30,
okay?)

Motion picture film (in the US) is usually shot at 24 frames per
second.

When 24fps film is transferred to video, 6 additional frames
must be "manufactured" so that 1 second of film screen time will
equal 1 second of video screen time. Therefore, every 4th frame
is doubled during transfer to make up the missing 6 frames; i.e.
1,2,3,4,4,5,6,7,8,8,etc,etc.

Therefore, any film shot at 24 frames per second and transferred
via a modern "flying spot scanner" such as a Rank Cintel or
Philips will show this anomaly. Such a video studied one frame
at a time will reveal a doubled fourth frame. Always.

However, if film were shot at 30 frames per second and
transferred to video, then there would be no frame doubling
present. However, the end result would still look like film
because of the lack of interlacing within each frame. In other
words, even though video is also shot at 30 frames per second,
each frame is made of two consecutive fields. Field one contains
the odd lines and field two contains the even lines. Video gets
its unique look when something being shot moves between the
scanning of field one and field two.

This is known in the business as a "motion artifact".

In effect, video has 60 'half-pictures" zooming by every second.
This is why video looks so silky smooth and "live", unlike film.

However, a "film look" can be achieved by simply "deinterlacing"
the video image and removing half the fields (usually the even
fields). Then, a duplicate of the odd field is used to fill in
the gap made by the missing even field. Resolution is
sacrificed, however, all "motion artifacts" are removed in the
process. The end result is identical to that of film shot and
transferred at 30 frames per second, but with slightly less
resolution. (like that would matter in AA!).

If this sounds complicated and expensive, it's not. Videonics
makes a device called the MX-1 that does this conversion in real
time. The unit only costs about $850.00 new. Post houses have
offered similar processes for years; long before AA.

You might be interested to know this process is used extensively
in the music video industry on a daily basis.

Now, what is it that Ray does for a living?

Finally, you wrote:

 >Explain it away.

Why bother. You won't listen.

For the record, after all this time and all the posts, you still
have not addressed a single issue presented regarding AA. No
matter what anyone presents, you simply say you don't believe it
or that it's hearsay or that you don't understand how it could
be. Your obsession over AA and your overzealous defense of Ray,
in my opinion, borders on the religious. I grow tired of
explaining the obvious.

I have nothing else to say to you on this topic.


AA is a fraud. The End.

(that's it for me, EBK)

later,
Roger Evans








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:56:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:42:13 -0500
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
 >Tuesday, January 25, 2000 | 6:22 a.m.
 >Finally, she called the newspaper to report her encounter.

 >"I didn't believe in UFOs before," she said. "But I'm certainly
 >intrigued now."

 >Experts say movies and television shows such as "X-Files" have
 >created a culture in which people are quicker to suppose some
 >unusual object in the sky is an alien craft.

 >In that atmosphere, witnesses may feel more comfortable
 >reporting what they saw -- or think they saw. And when they do,
 >officials may not be as quick to dismiss them as crazy.

 >McKenna may have seen an extraterrestrial aircraft. But
 >scientists say it was more likely an episode of a
 >"social-psychological phenomenon," in which people believe they
 >see a UFO because they are looking for one.

 >social-psychological phenomenon," in which people believe they
 >see a UFO because they are looking for one.

 >"Most UFO reports, especially lights in the night sky, turn out
 >to be honest misidentifications," he said.

 >"I've often said that if anyone will spend one hour looking in
 >the sky on a clear night, he or she will see a UFO," said
 >Phillip Klass, founder of the Committee of the Scientific
 >Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal, in Washington.


This is so much hogwash:   "...social-psychological phenomenon,"
in which people believe they see a UFO because they are looking
for one....

I have been searching for UFOs for over 45 years and have only
had one sighting... in Sept. 1967.

I spend hours upon hours on the road, in all types of weather,
all times of the day and night, in virtually every type of
geography here in this country.

Back roads at 2 - 3 a.m.  Mountains, day and night, etc., etc.,
etc.

I go to "skywatches" for the specific reason to "see a UFO." I
don't see anything which I can't in all good consciounce
identify as astronomical, aeronautical, or weather related
phenomena.

So for Phil Klass, or any of his associates to make such a
statement is ludicrous and misleading.

 >"All its takes is one sighting report, and within days you will
 >have thousands more," said Robert Baker, a professor emeritus of
 >psychology at the University of Kentucky. "Everybody starts
 >looking up in the sky and seeing things, too."

 >This pattern is called a "social-psychological phenomenon," said
 >Baker, who has interviewed thousands of witnesses who claimed to
 >have seen UFOs.

Well, Dr Robert Baker has not interviewed _me_!  I have talked
to professors who show a total lack of respect for the
observations of those who have professed a sighting.

CSICOP are totally closed minded.  Will not go out and
investigate the area where the event took place, or talk to
other people in the area.  They simply set in their chairs and
pontificate!

I would tell them to get off their duff and get into the fields,
and backroads where the sightings take place.  You are not apt
to have to many UFO sightings setting in an office in some
University, or Corporation, as a rule.

I may not have the academic credentials of Dr. Baker, but I do
have dirt sense!  I have talked to the neighbors and those
professing the sightings.

Is this all you intellectuals have to do?   Sit on your duff and
play at sounding like "Experts in ufology?"

I don't know why you waste our time posting these type of
reports in newspapers.  They can't do anything constructive for
ufology.

Another thing.  Why aren't all of you who profess these
sightings documenting them with video and 35 mm film shots?
Isn't it amazing how all of these sightings are either made by
those who don't have a camera of some kind available, or take
pictures of "lights" in the sky, which have no definition or
background by which to measure their density?

In todays climate, there is no excuse for not having a camera
with you at virtually any time.  In your car, in your bag or
purse.

Police cars equiped with old technology video cameras.  They
should all have night vision capabilities, for obvious reasons,
not including UFO sightings.

Just for your information...I carry a 35 mm camera, binoculars,
micro-cassette recorder/player, electromagnetic field detector,
compass and geiger counter in my car all the time, and many times
I also carry a stereo, High-8mm camcorder and tripod!

Always carry a tripod!  Enough of these shaky little lights in
the black night sky.

Give me a break!  Sheesh...

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:24:15 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:02:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >features.

<snip>

 >Anyway, cutting to the chase, after working on this I found
 >these things to be impossible creatures.

Keep in mind that these aren't necessarily "creatures."  I've
been entertaining some of the more bizarre theories, such as
Budden's "electrostaging" hypothesis, which would make the
"aliens" neurologically produced "inverted homonculi."

 >Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
 >eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
 >within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
 >to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >each other at the bridge of the nose).

Assuming that these bug-like people are real, who says their
eyes are spherical?  They could be more along the lines of
ocular portals.

 >I tried making the head bigger and bringing the eyes much
 >further apart to incorporate the eyeball size, the result looked
 >very unlike the description most people give and would still
 >leave little room for a brain.

Interesting approach.  One of the impressions I've received from
the ubiquitous abduction literature is that these aliens may be
more mechanical than artificial.  If they have some sort of hive
mind, as some witness testimony indicates, there might not be a
need for cranial space like there is in humans.

Plus, witnesses tend to emphasize the most dominating features
in their sketches.  Most of these people are untrained artists.
Should we accept their reconstructions literally?

(One of Whitley Strieber's remarks in 'Communion' is that the
archetypal alien head on the cover isn't as big as what he
observed. And since I seem to have been under attack lately, let
me stress that this isn't a whole-hearted endorsement for
Strieber...or any other "abductee.")

<snip>

 >Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >interest.

"Impossible creatures"?  Not really.  Possibly just _weird_
creatures.  They're supposed to be aliens, right?

--Mac Tonnies









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                   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings

From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:48:45 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:05:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:38:16 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Greetings list -

 >Couldn't help but laugh a bit while reading this article. The
 >"experts" in this article sure do a great job of pulling out all
 >the stops. This could be a candidate for debunking article of
 >the year.

 >From:
 >http://insidedenver.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=UFO-SIGHTING-01-25-00&cat=AN

<snip>

 >researchers said they don't count on witnesses to describe
 >sightings accurately.

Gee, we should apply this in the criminal justice system!  Would
quickly resolve the problems of overcrowding!

 >Klass, often called the dean of UFO research, said the object,
 >described as flying slowly and silently, was probably a hoax or
 >some kind of a balloon with intense lights or flares. "I would
 >suspect this report is bogus," Klass said.

If I thought the rest was bad enough, this para really got to
me! WHO calls Klass the 'dean' of UFO research?

No one I know of!  Never heard that said before!

And why is it that no one, at least few reporters if any,
challenge Klass to provide scientific proof that something is
bogus?

First thought was that the reporter was trying to show the
sightings were not real.  But thought a few seconds more- no,
the reporter has deliberately used juxtapositioning between the
'experts' and the people who actually viewed the as yet
unidentified objects, to a really very obvious end - he makes
the 'experts' look bad!  One fault though, is that few of the
experts are actually commenting on this particular sighting.
Only Klass appears to be directing his comments at the specific
sighting.

The one problem I always had in my days as a reporter, was being
expected to do a 'reaction' piece. Some big story or government
decision comes off the wire at 8 am, and has maybe been included
in the 9 am newscasts on tv and radio, but in a shortened form,
and I was supposed to have local reaction from local people who
were either the local 'experts' or even just people affected by
the story, completed for morning deadline at 8:30 am.  It just
ain't possible!!!  And whatever you get isn't credible!  You
can't expect any 'expert' who often has only heard the story
from you the reporter, to comment on something he/she has no
details of, has not had a chance to check out themselves and
only a few fragments about at best.  Its not fair journalism.
And the story is a waste of time.  But try and convince editor's
of that!!!   This story reads like the 'experts' had no idea
what the reporter was talking about when called for an opinion
or reaction!

Who says there is no sense of humour among ufonauts!

Lesley Cluff








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:59:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:11:10 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >features.

<snip>

 >at size would not only be too big
 >to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >interest.

The problem is you're making two assumptions which might not be
accurate! First, are we sure the surface of the 'eye' is
actually curved like our is? I have read nothing that suggests
it is.  In fact, it sticks in my mind that it has been described
as flat.

And two, you are assuming that the creature would have
eye'balls' like us. We know from the way cameras work, that an
image can be glimpsed accurately without a ball like device to
register the picture on.  I've never seen curved film.

Is it not possible the eye structure is either conical with
perhaps a curved back or even maybe flat back.  In either case,
the eyes can then fit side by side quite comfortably!

And don't forget those who have suggested it seemed to them that
perhaps the covering of the eye was artificial, and the real eye
is behind it.  Rather like built in sunglasses!?

Am looking forward to comments on this one!  I guess its a safe
assumption that no evidence from the AA film will be allowed to
be used in this discussion? ;-))  Although I do recall hoping to
see exactly what the eye would look like and I don't recall
getting an answer to my question.  Only saw it once though.

Lesley Cluff

manitou@fox.nstn.ca

Prospect, Ontario, Canada








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                               AL <squared> TV

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:05:10 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:17:35 -0500
Subject: AL <squared> TV


...What you haven't heard, won't otherwise hear, and in the
hearing might shake you by your stacking swivels. An ethical duo
in a half hour show, soaring, cleaving, and liking it. Look for
the link a few bars down on my splash page.

... get your free RealAudio� player and watch AL <squared> TV in
streaming video.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 22 January>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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             Mars Polar Lander Mission Status - January 25, 2000

From: baalke@jpl.nasa.gov
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:47:21 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:20:20 -0500
Subject: Mars Polar Lander Mission Status - January 25, 2000



MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE
JET PROPULSION LABORATORY
CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
PASADENA, CALIFORNIA 91109.  TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov

                Mars Polar Lander Mission Status
                        January 25, 2000

Mission managers have decided to send another set of commands to
Mars to investigate the possibility that a signal detected by a
radio dish at California's Stanford University came from Mars
Polar Lander.

The commands were sent at 10 a.m. PST today.  They will instruct
the lander, if it is operating, to send a signal directly to
Earth to the antenna at Stanford on Wednesday, January 26, at
approximately 1 p.m. PST.  The Stanford receiving station will
listen again during the window on Wednesday to see if it picks
up a signal that could originate from Mars.  The results of this
test will not be immediate and it will take the team several
days to process the data.

Mission managers sent commands several times in December and
January instructing Polar Lander to send a radio signal to the
45-meter (150-foot) antenna at Stanford. Although no signal was
detected in real-time, the team in charge of the Stanford
antenna says that after additional processing of the data they
may have detected a signal that could have come from Mars during
tests on December 18 and January 4. Because the signal was so
weak, it took several weeks for the Stanford team to process
their data and reach this conclusion.

"This week's test is a real long-shot, and I wouldn't want to
get anyone too excited about it," said Richard Cook, Polar
Lander project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
Pasadena, CA.  "The signal that the Stanford team detected is
definitely artificial, but there are any one of a number of
places it could have originated on or near Earth.  Still, we
need to conduct this test to rule out the possibility that the
signal could be coming from Polar Lander."

If in fact the signal were from Polar Lander, two failures would
have had to occur.  First, the lander's X-band radio that it
would use to transmit directly to Earth would have to be broken.
Second, there would have to be a problem somewhere in the relay
with Mars Global Surveyor that prevented the signal from being
picked up and relayed by the orbiter.  It is unlikely that a
broken transmitter on the lander could be fixed, and unclear
whether a problem with the relay could be resolved.

Although the Stanford data from the previous tests took several
weeks to process, the team expects to have results within
several days now that they know what they are looking for.

Even if the signal were coming from the lander, there is little
hope that any science could be returned. However, it would give
the team a few more clues in trying to eliminate possible
failure modes.

Mars Polar Lander is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. Lockheed
Martin Astronautics Inc., Denver, CO, is the agency's industrial
partner for development and operation of the spacecraft. JPL is
a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena,
CA.

                               #####









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: "Steven W. Kaeser" <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:20:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:07:17 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:26:11 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >I don't get it; can't you read. How many times do I have to post
 >this. Is Bob lying here or what? I have now physically
 >examined a section of the film, a section showing the "autopsy"
 >room before the body was placed on the table, but clearly
 >consistent with the later footage. The film on which this was
 >shot is Cine Kodak Super XX, a film type which was discontinued
 >in 1956-57. Since the edge code could be 1927, 1947 or 1967, and
 >this film was not manufactured in 1927 or 1967, this clearly
 >leaves us with only 1947 as an option.""

Ed-

You appear to have such a good memory for this matter and yet
you ignore the information that doesn't fit the argument you
want to support.  Bob made this statement based on information
that he had been given by Ray, and has since developed doubts
about many facets of that.  You might want to contact him.  He
believed that the film was Cine Kodak Super XX because he was
shown film boxes that the film allegedly came in, which was his
sole means of identification.

Since that statement, which you have posted several times (which
I have also referenced in earlier posts), Bob has indicated that
he is no longer 95% sure of anything in relation to the "film".
So why are we still clinging to that piece of evidence?  He
wasn't "lying", but was drawing a conclusion based on
information that he had at hand, and since then he has changed
his opinion.

No, this doesn't mean that he now dismisses the AA "film" as a
hoax, but let's try to keep the discussion on an even keel if we
can.

When the fact that the sample pieces of film are actually dupes
is brought up you respond:

 >Why don't you tell me why you find this so significant. If it
 >is copied, then it was copied in 1947 or thereabouts and since
 >all agree that there simply wasn't the technology to hoax the AA
 >at that time, then it must be legitimate. Isn't that what TDC
 >stated clearly on their web site. As I have said and will say
 >again, the nature of the film ie copied, not copied, original
 >duped and so forth is very confusing to most folks, not just me.
 >And you all continue to muddy the waters more by the way you
 >argue your case. If it is a copy, how does that work into the
 >whole story and why is that so damaging. If Ray was fooled into
 >buying a copy, so what? Did the cameraman hoax Ray? How did he
 >put this all together? Just give me some scenario that accounts
 >for how this all came down, some place where we can start to
 >unravel this mystery.

The importance is that Ray's initial statements indicated that
this was original film, and the fact that the pieces that he has
forwarded to validate the AA "film" were obvious dupes.  Perhaps
more significantly, the initial investigation by Saino indicated
that the copier used to make the duplication was not available
until the mid 50's, which puts a real crimp in the Cameraman's
story.  Bob has indicated that he believes and earlier copier
would leave the same markings, but admitted that Saino's
research was both valid and important in our effort to seek the
truth.  Bob now has two snippets of film supplied by Ray, and
has no reason to believe that either have any relation to the AA
"film" (except that they all come from Ray).

 >>How do you account for the lack of repeated frames that would be
 >>present if the film were transferred to video? (see Michael
 >>Lennick's excellent post on the subject)

 >I'm the first to admit that I am not a technical person; I'm a
 >historian, but are you saying here that there was not any film
 >at all and there was just a video made and then made to look
 >like it was shot in 16mm. (like the tent footage) Why don't you
 >show us how that might be done; just a few seconds if its so
 >easy. Did you bother to read the discussion of the debris?

 >Explain it away.

If you aren't prepared to hold a "technical" discussion, then
how are you going to discuss specifics?  I'm certainly not that
technical either, but I have at least paid attention when others
have posted their arguments and try to understand them.  Several
researchers have taken the "film" apart piece by piece and
anaylyzed it to the ground, and you could probably find an
argument to support the fact that it's a film transfer if you
tried hard enough.  But to what end?

A South American television station produced an AA segment that
was almost identical to the original (at least on the surface),
and with current technology we could produce a video that would
appear to be a transfer from film (not to mention the addition
of "artefacts" in the video that would appear as a result of a
PAL to NTSC transfer).  But what has all this proven?

That you believe that the AA "film" matter should be resolved is
commendable.  But researchers have limited time and resources,
and since there is nothing left to truly investigate in relation
to Santilli's "film", I think you'll find that most have moved
on to more productive pursuits.

Steve








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:47:41 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:51:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:56:59 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:42:13 -0500
 >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
 >>Tuesday, January 25, 2000 | 6:22 a.m.

<snip>

 >>"I've often said that if anyone will spend one hour looking in
 >>the sky on a clear night, he or she will see a UFO," said
 >>Phillip Klass, founder of the Committee of the Scientific
 >>Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal, in Washington.

 >This is so much hogwash:   "...social-psychological phenomenon,"
 >in which people believe they see a UFO because they are looking
 >for one....

 >I have been searching for UFOs for over 45 years and have only
 >had one sighting... in Sept. 1967.

 >I spend hours upon hours on the road, in all types of weather,
 >all times of the day and night, in virtually every type of
 >geography here in this country.

 >Back roads at 2 - 3 a.m.  Mountains, day and night, etc., etc.,
 >etc.

 >I go to "skywatches" for the specific reason to "see a UFO." I
 >don't see anything which I can't in all good consciounce
 >identify as astronomical, aeronautical, or weather related
 >phenomena.

Michael:

Have you ever been at one of those skywatches when others
thought they saw a UFO but you did not?  To what did you
attribute this? Your standards or powers of critical thinking
may just be higher than that of many others.

Clear skies,

Bob Young










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                   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2096 08:58:25 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:19:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:48:45 -0800
 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:38:16 -0800 (PST)
 >>From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >>Subject: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Couldn't help but laugh a bit while reading this article. The
 >>"experts" in this article sure do a great job of pulling out all
 >>the stops. This could be a candidate for debunking article of
 >>the year.

 >>From:
 >>http://insidedenver.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=UFO-SIGHTING-01-25-00&cat=AN

This unintentionally hilarious piece reads like a CSICOP
press release.  If I had to put money on it, I'd bet that
the reporter is a subscriber to Skeptical Inquirer;
she certainly seems to know who the leading debunkers are.
She doesn't seem to have a clue, however, about responsible
ufologists who could have given her a more balanced
assessment. That's assuming, naturally, that she wanted one,
a proposition for which there is no evidence whatever.

 >>Klass, often called the dean of UFO research, said the object,
 >>described as flying slowly and silently, was probably a hoax or
 >>some kind of a balloon with intense lights or flares. "I would
 >>suspect this report is bogus," Klass said.

 >If I thought the rest was bad enough, this para really got to
 >me! WHO calls Klass the 'dean' of UFO research?

Good question: till now I, too, have never heard Klass called
the "dean of UFO research," much less "often."  (I've heard him
called a few other things, sometimes often.) Oh well, if you're
a debunker, factual detail doesn't matter.  Reminds me of a
sneering reference debunker Robert Sheaffer made years ago to
Allen Hynek, calling him the "self-styled Galileo of ufology."
Reading Sheaffer, you'd think that Hynek was comparing _himself_
to Galileo, a vile falsehood if ever there was one. In fact, it
was Newsweek that had compared Allen, who was a modest,
unassuming man who would never have thought of himself so
grandiosely, to Galileo.

Jerry Clark











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                 TMP News: News Briefing - January 26, 2000

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:49:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:23:51 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing - January 26, 2000


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 26, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.26.00




QUANTA
Science and Technology

NASA Detects Possible Signal from Mars Polar Lander
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/01/25/mars.lander.02/index.html

NASA To Acknowledge Life on Mars?
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/marslife.html

Another Extrasolar Planet Found - Gliese-Jahreiss 302
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/gliese.html

NASA Plane Probes Yukon Skies for Meteor Particles
http://www.space.com/science/planetearth/nasa_yukon_000121.html

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000









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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:40:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:40:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:42:13 -0500
 >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
 >>Tuesday, January 25, 2000 | 6:22 a.m.
 >>Finally, she called the newspaper to report her encounter.


Below is my response to this article by Heather Ratcliffe.


=====




PROSAIC EXPLANATIONS: THE FAILURE OF UFO SKEPTICISM
by
Bruce Maccabee

brumac@compuserve.com
�  B. Maccabee, 1999

"In over 30 years of UFO investigation I have not studied a
single sighting for which I could not find a prosaic
explanation." -Paraphrase of a statement by Philip J. Klass

Could some UFOs actually be manifestations of Other
Intelligences (OIs)or Non-Human Intelligences (NHIs) such as
extraterrestrials (ETs), visiting the earth and interacting with
human beings?  Or are all reports of such sightings simply
mistakes, hoaxes, or dreams of the hopeful believers?  It all
comes down to explanation.  If there were no sightings which are
richly detailed, credible, and yet unexplainable, the UFO
subject would be based totally on theoretical expectations, as
is the so-called Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
(SETI).  SETI is based on the theory that we could detect
electromagnetic radiation, such as radio waves or light, that is
radiated toward us, intentionally or unintentionally, by
extraterrestrial civilizations.

If all sightings had reasonable explanations, then theoretical
speculations about ET intelligences visiting the earth might be
interesting but of little practical consequence.  Ufology, if
there were such a thing in the absence of unexplainable
sightings, would consist of studying witnesses who, evidently,
failed to identify explainable (identifiable) phenomena or who
simply made up "tall stories" about ET visitation.  "Ufological
science," if it existed under these circumstances, would consist
of psychology, psychiatry and perhaps sociology.

There are skeptics who believe that this is exactly what ufology
should consist of.

Noted UFO skeptic Philip J. Klass has provided perhaps the most
straightforward statement of the skeptic's position on UFO
sightings in his book UFOs: the Public Deceived (Prometheus
Books, Buffalo, NY, 1983, pg. 297), wherein he writes that the
"Occam's Razor" alternative to unexplained UFO sightings, is
this: "...roughly 98% of sightings are simply misidentifications
of prosaic, if sometimes unfamiliar, objects by honest
persons..(and) ... the balance, roughly 2%, are self-delusions
or hoaxes by persons who like to spin tall tales and become
instant celebrities."  In other words, UFO reports are the
results of misidentifications, delusions, and hoaxes, period!
There is not one case for which there is no "prosaic
explanation."   As evidence of this Mr. Klass has offered
prosaic explanations for a number of famous sightings.  Of
course, Mr. Klass has not attempted to explain each of the
hundreds of thousands of sighting reports which have been made
over the last half century.  However, he has proposed
explanations for a representative sample of reports which are
classified as "good" by most ufologists and, on this basis, he
has generalized his statement to apply to the bulk of the UFO
sighting reports.

Mr. Klass' statement is that he has provided "prosaic"
explanations for all the reports he has studied.  A reader of
Mr. Klass' analysis would likely assume that each prosaic
explanation is, in fact, the actual explanation for a particular
sighting.  At least, that is what the typically logical, but
uneducated (in the deep lore of ufology) and trusting reader
would infer from Klass' statement.  It is also what the
generally skeptical scientific community and the news media
would infer from Klass' statement.  Unfortunately, his statement
is wrong.

Klass would have the reader believe that he has correctly
explained all the sightings he has investigated. If he were
correct then his argument about misidentifications, hoaxes, and
delusions making up 100% of UFO sightings would be unassailable,
at least for the sightings which he has investigated.  (One can
always imagine that some sighting(s) not investigated by Klass
is (are) unexplainable, but that's not the point of this
discussion.)  However, in some cases he has offered prosaic
explanations which are demonstrably wrong.  In other cases he
has proposed explanations which may not be provably wrong but
which are are, at the very least, unconvincing.  (Note that in
the absence of confirmatory information, it may not be possible
to decide whether an explanation is correct, but it is possible
to decide whether or not an explanation is convincing.)  Hence
Klass' claim is literally correct: he has offered prosaic
explanations for the sightings he has investigated.  But the
logical inference that these are the correct explanations is
wrong:  there are sightings which he has investigated but has
not explained.  From the scientific point of view, it is not
sufficient to propose explanations that are incorrect.

To say that at least some of Klass' prosaic explanations, even
explanations for well publicized sightings, are wrong is a
strong statement.  However, an even stronger statement can be
made:  Klass' analysis has demonstrated that at least some of
the cases he has investigated have no prosaic explanations.  Why
is this?  Because Klass, having analyzed these cases carefully,
has proposed the only potential explanations that remain after
all other explanations have been rejected.  That is, there are
no other potential prosaic explanations that make any sense.
Hence, when his proposed explanations are proven wrong there are
no remaining candidate explanations and the sighting becomes
that of a TRue UFO (TRUFO), which might be evidence of
OI/NHI/ET.

The Case of the Damaged Police Car

The first example of a case for which Klass' proposed prosaic
explanation is wrong, or, at best, unconvincing, is the rather
traumatic experience of police officer Val Johnson of Warren,
Minnesota.  (See the above reference, page 223).  Shortly after
1:30 a.m., August 27, 1980, as he was cruising the countryside
in his police car in an area of low population, he noticed a
bright light that he could see through the trees of a small
wooded area.  Thinking it might be a landed airplane carrying
illegal drugs from Canada, he accelerated along a road toward
the area of the light.  Suddenly this light moved rapidly toward
his car.  He heard a noise of breaking glass and lost
consciousness.  When he regained consciousness, he was leaning
forward with his head against the top of the steering wheel.
There was a red mark on his forehead which suggests that he
might have bumped his head on the wheel hard enough to render
him unconscious (he said he was not wearing his seatbelt at the
time).  After regaining consciousness he called the police
station.  It was 2:19 a.m..   He had been unconscious for about
40 minutes.  He reported that something had "attacked" his car.

When another officer arrived on the scene a few minutes after
Johnson's report, he found Johnson's car nearly 90 degrees to
the road (blocking the road) and skid marks nearly 100 ft long.
Johnson was found in a distraught condition, in a state of
shock.  He said he recalled seeing the bright light rushing
toward his police car and he recalled hearing breaking glass.
The next thing he recalled was realizing he was sitting with his
head on the steering wheel.  He did not recall skidding to a
stop.  He complained about pain in his eyes and was taken to a
doctor who could find no eye damage.  He did not complain of a
headache.

Of particular importance is damage to the police car.  One of
the two glass headlight covers on the driver's side had been
broken; there was a large crack in the windshield on the
driver's side; a plastic cover on the light bar on top of the
car had a hole in it; there was a dent in the top of the hood,
and two of the three spring-mounted antennas were bent 60 or
more degrees, with the bend occurring over a short distance
(i.e., sharp bends).  Examination of the antenna surfaces using
a microscope showed that the insect matter ("bug tar") that
coated the antennas was "stretched" at the bend, but there was
no other disturbance of the insect matter.  Evidently the
antennas had not been scraped or rubbed when they were bent.
Also, the electric clock in the car and Johnson's mechanical
wristwatch both read fourteen minutes slow, although Johnson was
certain he had set both before he had begun his nightly patrol.

The damage to the car was physical evidence that something
strange had taken place. Careful studies of the damage were made
by the police department and by scientists working with the
Center for UFO Studies.  They could find no evidence or reason
to believe that Johnson had damaged his own car.  They could
find no prosaic explanation for the sighting.  Klass also
investigated the sighting.  He spoke to several people who knew
Johnson and asked about his interest in UFOs.  According to his
friends he seemed no more interested in UFOs than in numerous
other subjects.  They could provide no reason to believe he
would intentionally damage his car to create a UFO incident.  He
might "hide your coffee cup," one gentleman told Klass, but "as
far as we know, he's never told any untruths."

Klass concluded his discussion of the Officer Johnson UFO
sighting by offering two alternatives.  He wrote:

"The hard physical evidence leaves only two possible
explanations for this case.  One is that Johnson's car was
attacked by malicious UFOnauts, who reached out and hit one
headlight with a hammerlike device, then hit the hood and
windshield, then very gently bent the two radio antennas, being
careful not to break them, then reached inside the patrol car to
set back the hands of the watch on Johnson's arm and the clock
on the car's dashboard. These UFOnauts would then have taken off
Johnsons' glasses, aimed an intense ultraviolet light into his
eyes, and replaced his glasses, while being careful not to shine
ultraviolet on his face.

Or the incident is a hoax. There are simply no other possible
explanations."

Klass' amusing version of the "UFO/ET hypothesis" should not
detract from the importance of his statement that, "There are
simply no other possible explanations."  In other words, if it
was not a hoax then there is no prosaic explanation for this
sighting.  Perhaps Klass realized that the hoax hypothesis was
unconvincing at best and intentionally tried to make the UFO
alternative seem silly. (One envisions "little green men" or
"grey entities" molesting the police car and officer Johnson,
perhaps laughing gleefully as they hammered his car!)

The police department did not accuse officer Johnson of damaging
the police car.  Yet, Klass' book, published about 3 years after
the incident, clearly implies that this event had to be a hoax
since it was clearly not a misidentification or a delusion
(recall that, according to Klass, roughly 98% are
misidentifications and the remainder are hoaxes or delusions).
Several years after the publication of the book I challenged
Klass to send a letter to the police chief of Warren, Minnesota,
along with a copy of his book chapter so that the police chief
would realize that he should charge Johnson with damaging the
car.  So far as I know, Klass never did send such a letter and
officer Johnson has never been charged with damaging the police
car.

UFO In The Snake River Canyon

Klass is not the first to offer prosaic explanations.  Dr. J.
Allen Hynek, who, in his later years, became a strong proponent
of UFO investigation (founder of the Center for UFO Studies in
1973), began his "UFO career" in 1948 as a strong
skeptic/debunker.  His explanations of a number of UFO sightings
helped to set the tone of governmental UFO investgation in the
early years.  One of his most unconvincing explanations was that
offered for the sighting by Mr. A. C. Urie and his two sons on
August 13, 1947.  They lived in the Snake River Canyon at  Twin
Falls, Idaho.  According to the FBI investigative report of this
case, at about 1:00 p.m. Mr. Urie "sent his boys to  the
(Salmon) river to get some rope from his boat.  When he thought
they were overdue he went outside to his tool shed to look for
them.  He noticed them about 300 feet away looking in the sky
and he glanced up to see what he called the flying disc."   This
strange object was flying at high speed along the canyon which
is about 400 feet deep and 1,200 feet across at that point.  It
was about seventy-five feet above the floor of  the canyon (and
so more than 300 feet below the edge of the canyon) and moving
up and down as it flew.  It seemed to be following the contours
of the hilly ground beneath it.  Urie, who said he was at about
the same level as the UFO, so that he had a side view, estimated
it was about twenty feet long, ten feet wide and ten feet high,
with what appeared to be exhaust ports on the sides.   It  was
almost hat shaped with a flat bottom and a dome on top.  Its
pale blue color made Urie think that it would be very difficult
to see against the sky, although he had no trouble seeing it
silhouetted against the opposite wall of the canyon.  On each
side there was a tubular shaped fiery glow, like some sort of
exhaust.  He said that when it went over trees they didn't sway
back and forth, but rather the treetops twisted around, which
suggests that the air under the object was being swirled into a
vortex.  He and his sons had an excellent view of the object for
a few seconds before it disappeared over the trees about a mile
away.  He thought it was going 1,000 miles an hour.

Hynek offered the following "prosaic explanation," which became
part of the official Air Force record on the sighting (see the
files of Project Blue Book): an atmospheric eddy.  Why this
explanation?  The object appeared pale bluish in color, like the
sky, and the trees were moving around as if a swirling wind went
over them.  Hynek explained the blue color as a "reflection" of
the blue sky in the hypothetical atmospheric eddy.  He offered
no explanation of how this eddy could appear to have the strange
"hat" shape, be traveling at about 1,000 miles per hour, how
there could be a fiery glow at one location on the side of the
"eddy" or why the eddy would appear as a solid rather than
transparent object.

With a little thought he could have realized that no atmospheric
eddy could reflect or bend light (as in a mirage) coming down
from the sky enough to redirect it toward the witnesses.  An
eddy is a density inhomogeneity in the atmosphere which, in
principle, might bend light by a very small fraction of a
degree.  However, for Hynek's explanation to work, the light
would have to be bent five degrees or more, far beyond anything
the atmosphere could do.  Hynek's explanation is another failed
prosaic explanation.  Even Hynek realized this and repudiated
his explanation years later (see The Hynek UFO Report, Dell Pub.
co, NY, 1977).

The "First" Sighting

The June 24, 1947 sighting by private pilot Kenneth Arnold was
not really the first recorded UFO sighting.  However, it was
the first sighting to be publicly reported and it attracted
worldwide interest.  It also attracted more than its share of
explanations.  One of the scientists with an excessive urge to
explain was Dr. Howard Menzel.  In his first book, Flying
Saucers (Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Mass, 1953),
Menzel offered a blanket explanation for sightings that
occurred within the first five years of modern UFO sightings
(1947-1952):  misidentified atmospheric phenomena including the
effects of the atmosphere on sunlight, unusual clouds caused by
particular wind patterns, and mirage effects (light ray bending
in the atmosphere).  He suggested several different atmospheric
and cloud effects to account for the Kenneth Arnold's sighting.
In later books (The World of Flying Saucers, Menzel and Boyd,
Doubleday and Company, Garden City, NY, 1963;  The UFO Enigma,
The Definitive Explanation of the UFO Phenomenon, Menzel and
Taves, Doubleday and Company, Garden City, NY, 1977) he offered
other atmosphere-related explanations and one non-atmospheric
explanation (water drops on the windshield of the airplane).

Mr. Arnold, a businessman and private pilot with over 4,000
hours of flying experience, had reported seeing nine
semicircular, thin (compared to the length), shiny objects in a
line flying southward past the western flank of Mt. Rainier and
"swerved in and out" of a chain of mountain peaks south of
Rainier.  The objects were therefore about twenty miles east of
him (he was about twenty miles west and ten miles south of Mt.
Rainier and flying east at the time).  He timed their flight
from Rainier, southward, to Mt. Adams, a distance of about
fifty miles.  They crossed this distance in 102 seconds. Hence,
the direct interpretation of Arnold's sighting is that these
objects were traveling at about 1,700 mph.  (This was about
four months before Yaeger exceeded the speed of sound in a test
aircraft, in October, 1947).  In reporting the speed
calculation, Arnold arbitrarily reduced the speed considerably
to account for possible errors in his measurements.  He
publicly stated that the objects were traveling at about 1,200
mph.  Arnold reported that he first saw the objects as they
flashed or reflected the bright afternoon sunlight when they
were north of Mt. Rainier and last saw them (by their flashes)
as they passed Mt. Adams.  The total sighting duration was two
and a half to three minutes.

Dr. Hynek was the first scientist to try to explain Arnold's
sighting.   Hynek used some details of the observation and an
assumption about Arnold's visual acuity to calculate an
approximate size of the objects.  He obtained a large size (two
thousand feet long, one hundred feet thick).   He could not
accept this size as reasonable so he decided to ignore Arnold's
claim that the objects went in and out of the mountain peaks
south of Mt. Rainier.  By ignoring this statement (essentially
implying Arnold had made a mistake in the observation) Hynek
was able to assume that the objects were much closer.  Hynek
decided that Arnold saw large airplanes and he then estimated
that the distance was only about  six miles.   This shorter
distance reduced the calculated speed to about 400 mph.  Since
this speed was within the capability of  military aircraft
Hynek identified the objects as "aircraft," thereby also
ignoring Arnold's description of the objects.   Recent analysis
of the Arnold sighting shows that  Hynek made an incorrect
assumption about Arnold's  visual acuity.   Had he made the
correct assumption he would have obtained a much smaller size
(under one hundred ft long and ten or so feet thick) and then,
perhaps, would not have rejected Arnold's distance estimate, in
which case he would have had to accept the speed estimate.  Had
he accepted the speed estimate the history of  theUFO subject
might have been different.

Hynek's work was done secretly for the Air Force in 1948 under
"Project Sign"(1948).  (This was the first of three projects
for UFO sighting analysis.  The other two were Project Grudge
[1949-1952] and Project Blue Book [1952-1969] ).  About four
years later Dr. Menzel tackled Arnold's sighting.  In his first
book, Flying Saucers, Menzel summarized the sighting and then
criticized the Air Force for accepting Hynek's explanation and
went on to propose a much more "obvious" solution.  Menzel
wrote, "(Arnold) clocked the speed at about 1,200 miles an
hour, although this figure seems inconsistent with the length
of time that he estimated them to be in view.  From his
previous statement they could scarcely have traveled more than
25 miles during the three minutes that he watched.  This gives
about 500 miles an hour, which is still a figure large enough
to be startling."  Note that Menzel did not tell the reader
that Arnold had timed the flight of the objects between two
points.  Instead, Menzel invented a travel distance of
twenty-five miles, and implied that this distance was covered
in three minutes (180 seconds).  Hence he was able to assign a
much lower, although "startling," speed of 500 mph.

Menzel went on to "solve" the mystery of Arnold's sighting:
"Although what Arnold saw has remained a mystery until this day
(1953), I simply cannot understand why the simplest and most
obvious explanation of all has been overlooked... the
association of the saucers with the hogback (of the mountain
range south of Mt. Rainier)... serves to fix their distance and
approximate size and roughly confirms Arnold's estimate of the
speed."  (Note that Menzel, unlike Hynek, accepted Arnold's
distance estimate).  Menzel then went on to suggest that Arnold
saw "billowing blasts of snow, ballooning up from the tops of
the ridges" caused by highly turbulent air along the mountain
range.  According to Menzel, "These rapidly shifting, tilting
clouds of snow would reflect the sun like a mirror...and the
rocking surfaces would make the chain sweep along something
like a wave, with only a momentary reflection from crest to
crest."

This first explanation by a scientist with the reputation of
Dr. Menzel may seem slightly convincing, but only until one
realizes that (a) blowing clouds of snow cannot reflect light
rays from the sun (60 deg elevation angle) into a horizontal
direction toward Arnold's airplane and thereby create the very
bright flashes that Arnold reported in the same way that a
polished metal surface or mirror would, (b) there are no 1,200
mph or even 500 mph winds on the surface of the earth to
transport clouds of snow (fortunately!), (c) there are no winds
that would carry clouds of snow all the way from Mt. Rainier to
Mt. Adams (Arnold saw the objects pass Mt. Adams before they
were lost to his view), (d) Arnold flew eastward along a path
that took him south of Mt. Rainier minutes later and surely his
plane would have been strongly buffeted (and perhaps
destroyed!) by such high winds, but he reported, instead, very
calm conditions, (e) an atmospheric oscillation wave can't bend
or reflect light over an angle of nearly 60 degrees, which
would be necessary to make it appear as if the sun had been
reflected by objects nearly at Arnold's altitude, and (f) an
atmospheric oscillation wave with a "phase velocity" of 1,200
mph is unlikely, but in any case, when traveling southward its
crests would be oriented east-west, so if it reflected any
sunlight at all (highly unlikely), the reflection would be in
the north-south direction and not westward toward Arnold's
plane.  Furthermore, even if such amazing atmospheric phenomena
had occurred, it is difficult to imagine how Arnold could have
failed to realize that he was just seeing light reflected from
snow blowing from the top of Mt. Rainier, especially since,
only minutes later, he flew along a path that took him about
twelve miles south of Mt. Rainier as he continued his trip east
to Yakima, Washington.

In case the first explanation wasn't sufficiently convincing,
Menzel offered "another possibility":  he suggested that
perhaps there was a thin layer of fog, haze or dust just above
or just below Arnold's altitude which was caused to move
violently by air circulation and which reflected the sunlight.
Menzel claimed that such layers can "reflect the sun in almost
mirror fashion."  Menzel offered no substantiation for this
claim.  Perhaps he was thinking in terms of a "forward
reflection" from an atmospheric layer when the Sun is so low on
the horizon (and nearly along the line of sight to the
reflection) that the light rays make a "grazing angle" with the
layer.  If so, then that explanation as applied to the Arnold
sighting makes no sense, since the Sun was at an elevation of
60 degrees and southwest of Arnold, who was looking east.
Furthermore, layers form under stable conditions and violent
air circulation would tend to break them up so there would be
no "reflections" of sunlight.  Again, one wonders how Arnold
could have failed to notice that he was just seeing strange
effects of the atmosphere.

Ten years after his first book, Dr. Menzel offered his third,
fourth and fifth explanations in his second book, (The World of
Flying Saucers): mountain top mirages, "orographic clouds" and
"wave clouds in motion."  To support the third explanation, he
presented a photograph of mountain top mirages taken by a
photographer many years earlier, and proposed by the
photographer as the explanation for Arnold's sighting.  (This
is the "official" Air Force explanation.  It appears in the
files of Projects Sign/Grudge/Blue Book along with Hynek's
explanation.  These files are available to be reviewed on
microfilm at the National Archives.) The mirages appear as
vague images above the tops of the mountains.  (Actually the
mirage is an inverted image of the top of the mountain.)  These
mirages can be seen under proper atmospheric conditions
(requiring a stable atmosphere) when the line of sight from the
observer to the mountain top is tilted by less than one half a
degree above or below horizontal.  Unintentionally (or
intentionally?) Menzel failed to report in his book the
following information in Arnold's report: as the objects
traveled southward, he saw them silhouetted against the side of
Mt. Rainier which is 14,400 feet high, much higher than the
altitude of the saucers.  Since mountain top mirages occur
above the mountain peaks, these objects were far below any
mirage of Mt. Rainier.  Of course, mountain top mirages stay
above the tops of the mountains, so the mirage theory cannot
explain the lateral high speed movement of the objects reported
by Arnold.  Nor can a mirage explain the bright flashes of
light from the objects.

Menzel's fourth explanation was that Arnold saw orographic
clouds, which can assume circular shapes and often form in the
lees (i.e., downwind of) mountain peaks.  The clouds would, of
course, be large but, as Menzel notes in his book, they "appear
to stand more or less motionless."  The lack of motion, as well
as the lack of bright reflections, rules them out, so why did
he even mention them?  Also, Arnold would have realized they
were just clouds as he flew past Mt. Rainier only minutes
later.

Menzel's fifth explanation, wave clouds, is comparable to his
first suggestion of "billowing blasts" of snow, except that
this time he proposed clouds of water vapor instead of snow.
In his second book, this explanation was supported by a
photograph of such a cloud taken by a newspaper photographer.
However, this explanation, too, fails to account for the very
bright reflections reported by Arnold, for distinct
semi-circular shapes, and for the high lateral speed.  Again,
Arnold surely would have recognized a cloud as he flew past Mt.
Rainier.

In his third and last UFO book, The UFO Enigma, The Definitive
Explantion of UFO Phenpomenon, written in the early 1970's,
(just before Menzel died), he again discussed Arnold's sighting
and offered his sixth (and last) explanation: Arnold saw water
drops on the window of his aircraft.

To support this explanation, Menzel appealed to his own
sighting of "UFOs" that turned out to be water drops that had
condensed on the outside of the window of an aircraft in which
he was flying.  They moved slowly backwards from the front of
the window.  They were so close to his eyes as he looked out
the window that they were out of focus and he thought they were
distant objects moving at a great speed until, after a few
seconds, he refocused his eyes and discovered what they were.
In comparing his "sighting" with Arnold's, Menzel writes: "I
cannot, of course, say definitely that what Arnold saw were
merely raindrops on the window of this plane.  He would
doubtless insist that there was no rain at the altitude at
which he was flying.  But many queer things happen at different
levels in the earth's atmosphere."

Although no one would argue with Menzel's claim that "queer
things" happen at different levels of the atmosphere, this fact
is irrelevant.  Had Menzel bothered to carefully read Arnold's
letter to the Air Force, he would have seen Arnold's statement
that he turned his plane sideways and viewed the objects
through an open window to be sure that he was getting no
reflections from window glass.  (Fortunately, Menzel did not
propose water drops on Arnold's eyes!)

The "bottom line" is that neither Hynek nor Menzel proposed
reasonable explanations for Arnold's sighting, but that didn't
stop the Air Force from accepting one of the explanations
(mirage).

In 1947, shortly after Arnold's sighting and during the massive
wave of sightings that occurred between late June and the
middle of July, numerous explanations for the sightings of
Arnold and other withnesses were proposed.  The first
explanation was that proposed by Arnold himself, namely that
saucers were some new secret aircraft of the United States Army
Air Force (the Air Force was still part of the Army).
However, very quickly (within days) after Arnold's sighting the
U.S. government publicly denied having any secret aircraft that
could account for saucer sightings.  This denial was also
privately made to J. Edgar Hoover, the Director of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation (FBI) by General George Schulgen of the
Army Air Force.  (The denial is in the FBI's file on flying
discs, the "real X file.")    On the other hand, the Air Force
began to be worried over the possibility that the Soviet Union
had developed flying saucers to threaten the United States, but
this worry was not conveyed to the public.

Howard Blakeslee, the Associated Press Science Editor, wrote an
article that suggested "quirks of eyesight" could explain the
saucer mystery.  He pointed out that anything looks round if it
is too far away to see details.  "This law covers small things
seen nearby and large ones at great distances."  He described
his own sightings of "flying saucers" which were bright
reflections from distant aircraft.  "Planes at great distances
tend to look round when light is reflected from their sides,"
he wrote.   He rejected the daytime meteor hypothesis (see
below) and the hypothesis that upper altitude ice crystals
formed "little round clouds."  According to Blakeslee, "Nothing
published in science or atomic studies gives the slightest clue
to flying saucers unless the objects are aircraft."

Although I cannot now cite the reference, it is this author's
recollection that someone claimed that flying saucers were
actually "motes in the eye" which are small particles such as
blood cells which float in the fluid within each person's
eyeball.  Motes are only visible when they move to an area
between the lens and the fovea; when they move out of this area
they "disappear."  These particles, when viewed against a
bright sky, can appear to be dark objects far away and thus may
be mistaken for large objects at a great distance.  Of course,
they move whenever the eye does and this can impart "unearthly
speeds" to the apparently distant, large objects.  (Note: one
can be temporarily fooled by motes, but a simple test is to
turn the eye and stare in another direction.  If the "object"
moves with the eye, then it was a mote.)

Dan Nelson, an attorney in Oklahoma City, published his
explanation in the "Daily Oklahoman" newspaper, July 29, 1947.
On July 30 the FBI contacted him to learn more about his
solution to the mystery.  (Yes, the FBI did investigate
sightings in 1947, so, in a small sense the "X" files are
real!)  According to Nelson all sightings from inside vehicles,
including airplanes, that had windows were reflections of
sunlight from shiny objects onto the windows.  The light
reflected from these shiny objects was then re-reflected toward
the eye of the observer who was looking through a window and
could thus see the reflection silhouetted against the
background as if there were a shiny object "out there", far
outside the vehicle.  Naturally reflections such as this could
do unnatural things such as pace a vehicle or suddenly
accelerate, make fast turns and even suddenly disappear.
According to Nelson, the vibration of a car, for example, would
give the objects "an appearance of rotating" and "reflections
(in the windows) caused them to appear flat or saucer shaped."
Moreover, "...any number of objects might be seen according to
the direction that the car is traveling and the number of
bright objects being reflected onto the window.  He further
stated that these objects might be seen in an ordinary window
in a house according to the lighting conditions..."  Mr. Nelson
told the FBI that he had not actually talked to saucer
witnesses but "he believed that these reflections plus the
excitement and hysteria caused by other reports has been the
basis for most flying saucer reports."  (Classic armchair
theorist!!)  Obviously Nelson's explanation could not apply to
Arnold's sighting, but Nelson didn't know that since Arnold's
full report was not published until many years later.

Recently some skeptics have proposed that Arnold saw a flight
of geese or pelicans heading southward at high altitude (about
9,000 feet).  These birds were proposed because they are large
and can fly quite rapidly, perhaps up to fifty miles per hour.
Of course they would have been quite close to Arnold for him to
see them (an eighty foot long object at twenty miles has the
same apparent [angular] size as a four foot long object at one
mile).   Of course, these birds would not cause bright
mirror-like reflections of the Sun but, as skeptics often do,
they tried to convince people that Arnold incorrectly reported
the bright "flashing" of these objects (perhaps assuming that
Arnold got it wrong or simply lied about it).  They also
overlooked the implications of Arnold's claim that he turned
his plane and rolled down his window to look at the objects
with no intervening glass.  Since he was sitting on the left
side of the plane it is logical to assume, although Arnold did
not explicitly say so, that he turned the plane to the right
and rolled down the left hand window to look eastward toward
the objects.  At this time he would  have been flying
southward, roughly parallel to the flight path of the objects
for a short time.   Arnold did not report his air speed.
However, because of the type of aircraft he was flying his
speed would definitely have been above a stall speed of about
eighty mph and probably above 100 mph.   In any case he would
have realized immediately that he was gaining on these objects.
He would have realized that they were relatively slow compared
to his speed and certainly he wouldn't have estimated the speed
at anything like 1,700 miles per hour, or even 100 miles per
hour.  In other words, had they been birds, even if
unrecognized by Arnold, he would have had no reason to think
that he was seeing radically new aircraft with extreme flight
capabilities, so his whole report would have to be a
fabrication.

In June, 1997, just in time for the Fiftieth Anniversary of
Arnold's sighting, San Francisco Examiner science writer Keay
Davidson published another explanation: meteors.  The details
of the explanation are given in a small monthly publication by
Philip Klass which he calls the Skeptics UFO Newsletter
(SKUFON; issue #46 of July 1997).  (One wonders why it took
fifty years for this explanation to be proposed.  Could it be
that previous skeptics considered this to be just too
"outrageous?")   Mr. Klass has been writing articles and books
purporting to explain UFO sightings over the last thirty years,
yet he has not previously "explained" the Arnold sighting. (His
first book, UFOs Identified,  was published in 1968.)

According to Mr. Klass, writing in SKUFON, the new explanation
was published by Mr. Davidson after some research that was
"sparked by a conversation" with Mr. Klass.   The exact nature
of this conversation was not reported, but one may imagine
Klass suggested that Davidson ought to check on the possibility
that Arnold saw meteors.   According to Klass, after some
research Davidson discovered that "the number of meteor falls
reaches a peak around 3:00 p.m." in June in the northern
hemisphere.  Arnold's sighting occurred at 3:00 p.m., June 24,
1947.  Thus, according to Klass' article, the large number of
meteors detected in June lends support to the meteor
hypothesis.  (The astute reader will note the careful,
"lawyerly" use of words:  "lends support to" which is not the
same as "proves" or "is evidence for.")

Klass' SKUFON article mentions Arnold's statement that the
objects seemed bright and shiny as if reflecting the Sun.  By
way of comparison and explanation, Klass cites a 6:00 p.m.,
June, 5, 1969 pilot sighting, which he claims turned out to be
several meteors, in order to point out that meteors, when seen
in the daytime, can look as if they are shiny metal.  These
pilots saw the bright objects seeming to come toward them
(i.e., they were looking along the trajectory of the objects)
and thought they were looking at shiny metallic objects.  The
pilots thought the objects were close, when in fact they were
over a hundred miles away.

Klass also points out that pilots can make errors (as if we
didn't know that!).  The implication is that if the 1969 pilots
could mistake daytime meteors for UFOs, then perhaps Arnold did
also.  However, the Arnold sighting was quite different from
the 1969 sighting.

Arnold reported seeing repeated bright flashes at varying time
intervals from nine objects traveling one after another, along
a roughly horizontal trajectory.  Their altitude was about
6,000 feet (since they traveled at the level of the mountain
peaks south of Mt. Rainier).   He realized that the flashes
occurred as the objects tilted steeply to the left and right as
they flew along a southward path.   Arnold concluded that the
flashes were a result of reflections of light from the Sun
which was high in the sky to the west (behind him).  The
objects flew southward past Mt. Rainier and, when they weren't
tilted, he saw them as thin dark lines silhouetted against the
snow on the sides of  Mt. Rainier.  When they were tilted but
not aligned with the Sun, so as to make a bright flash, he saw
them as semi-circular at the front with convex, somewhat
pointed rear ends (one object seemed to have a double concave
crescent shape at the rear).

By way of contrast, meteors which are traveling fast enough to
glow (or, actually, to cause the air around them to glow) do
not dim to the point of being "not bright" and then brighten
again, repeatedly.  This is because, as Klass correctly points
out, what causes the light is the high velocity of the meteor
passing through atmosphere.  The meteor is traveling so fast
that it "instantaneously" heats the air as it passes through.
(Note:   Klass gives a meteor speed as 10,000 mph or 2.8
mi/sec.  However, this is lower than that of any body entering
the earth's atmosphere from space.   Free fall to the earth
from a great distance would produce a speed of  about 7.4
mi/sec at the earth's surface in the absence of atmosphere.
Orbital speed, which is lower than meteoric speed, but still
large enough to cause a plasma in the upper atmosphere, is
about 5 mi/sec.)   This heating is a very rapid process caused
by the meteor compressing the air ahead of it and raising the
temperature (kinetic energy of the air molecules) to the point
where the air becomes ionized (a plasma).   In returning to the
un-ionized state (free electrons reuniting with the
atoms/molecules) the atoms/molecules give off light, which
appears to envelop the meteor (one does not see the meteor
itself, but rather the envelope of heated air).   The natural
tendency of a meteor is to slow down as it meets with
resistance, while forcing itself at high speed through the
atmosphere.  If it slows to a speed low enough so that it no
longer creates a plasma, it will become dark  (not giving off
light) and will not again appear bright, since there is no way
for it to regain its lost speed.   At the high altitudes of
meteors (50 miles and higher), the atmosphere is quite thin and
easily heated to the plasma state by the speed of the meteor.
Furthermore, the air resistance is quite low, so the meteor can
travel a great distance before being slowed to "sub-plasma"
speed.  However, as the altitude decreases, the atmospheric
density, increases and it takes ever more energy from the
meteor to maintain a glowing plasma.   It is doubtful that any
meteor would be still glowing at an altitude of 6,000 feet, but
if it were, it would be quite large and eventually would be
slowed to the point of hitting the earth.    The suggestion
that one, or several, meteors could travel many miles
horizontally at a speed high enough to glow while at an
altitude of 6,000 ft is not supported by any known physics of
meteors.

Klass points out that Arnold estimated he saw the objects for
two and a half to three minutes.   This includes about half to
three quarters of a minute before they passed Mt. Rainier and
another nearly two minutes after they passed Rainier.   This
would be "extra long" for a meteor.  Most meteors most burn out
(at high altitude) in a second or so, although large meteors,
called fireballs, can be seen from one location on the earth
for many seconds up to a minute.   Since meteor durations are
limited to a minute or less, Klass argues that Arnold's time
estimate was probably wrong.  He points out that  "witnesses
are notoriously unreliable in estimating the time duration of
unexpected events" and cites the March 3, 1968 reentry of the
Zond Soviet space rocket as an example in which witness errors
resulted in sighting duration estimates as low as fifteen
seconds and as high as five minutes.

There is an important difference between Klass' example of
witness error and the Arnold sighting:  Arnold used a clock!

Klass acknowledges that Arnold used his dashboard clock to time
the passage of the objects between Mt. Rainier and Mt. Adams,
but Klass does not mention the time duration reported by
Arnold.   Instead, he writes as follows:  "SUN questions
whether Arnold...who was focusing his attention on the unusual
obejcts while also occupied flying his aircraft... would have
taken his eyes off the objects to carefully observe his cockpit
clock."   In other words,  Klass questions the accuracy of the
witness' claims about his own actions.  If the actions seem
illogical to Klass, then the actions are suspect and, of
course, any data resulting from the actions are suspect.
(Note: if Arnold had not looked at his clock but simply
reported an estimated time the skeptics would probably raise
the question, why didn't he look at his clock?)

So, why did Arnold do such an "illogical" thing as look at his
dashboard clock as the objects were disappearing?  Even though
Klass used Arnold's letter to the Air Force as a reference, he
does not tell his readers that Arnold wrote that he
intentionally measured the speed:  "I had two definite points I
could clock them by" (he was referring to Mt. Rainier about
twenty miles east-northeast of him and Mt. Adams about forty
miles south-southeast of him).   He reported that he could see
that the objects were flying southward so he looked at his
dashboard clock as the first object passed the south flank of
Mt. Rainier.  He then watched the objects as they continued
southward.  During this time the objects passed over a ridge
that is about five miles long.  According to Arnold "the first
one was passing the south crest of the ridge" as the last one
"was entering the northern crest."   Hence, they covered a
total distance of about five miles.   By the time they were
passing Mt. Adams they were so far away he could only see their
flashes.   At this point there was no reason to continue
watching carefully because they were fading out in the
distance.   Therefore he wasn't missing anything by taking his
eyes off the objects to look at the clock.   The second hand on
his clock showed that 102 seconds had passed.   (Note:  he was
able to pay attention to the objects even though flying the
plane because, as he reported, the atmosphere was calm and
clear and there were no aircraft in his vicinity; the closest
aircraft was roughly fifteen miles north and heading away from
him.)

The calculated speed based on Arnold's measured time between
Rainier and Adams is by itself sufficient to reject the meteor
explanation (is this why Klass did not report the calculated
speed?).  The objects traveled about fifty miles in 102
seconds, corresponding to a speed of about 1,700 mph, far below
any meteoric speed and certainly not enough to make the
atmosphere glow.

By way of comparison, if one were to hypothesize a meteor in a
level trajectory traveling at essentially orbital speed but at
an altitude of 6,000 ft, it would have required only  roughly
ten seconds to travel from Mt. Rainier to Mt. Adams.   Even at
Klass' underestimated speed of 10,000 mph the flight time
between the peaks would be only about seventeen seconds.   One
would hope that Arnold, using his dashboard clock, could tell
the difference between  102 seconds and ten (or seventeen)
seconds.

Aside from the difficulty in imagining that Arnold could
mistake ten seconds for 102 seconds, the mere suggestion that a
meteor, or nine such meteors, could travel at a meteoric speed
at an altitude of 6,000 feet while glowing brightly is far
outside the accepted meteor phenomenology.   Meteors cool as
they penetrate the lower atmosphere, or rather the speed
decreases to the point that they are no longer ionizing the
dense air.  Hence the basic concept that Arnold saw bright
meteors traveling past Mt. Rainier must be rejected.

Consider now the number of explanations that have been offered
for the Arnold sighting:  secret US aircraft (Arnold and other
witnesses),  secret Soviet aircraft (US Air Force
Intelligence), quirks of eyesight (Blakeslee), motes in the
eye,  reflections in glass (Nelson), mirage (Hynek), blasts of
snow (Menzel), haze reflection (Menzel), mirage (Menzel),
orographic clouds (Menzel), wave clouds in motion (Menzel),
water drops on the windshield (Menzel), birds/geese/pelicans
(recent skeptics), and meteors (Klass/Davidson).  With this
dozen or so available explanations, surely the Arnold sighting
has been explained.

NOT!

The complete Arnold sighting and an in-depth discussion of the
failed prosaic explanations are available from this author via
email (brumac@compuserve.com).

 From studying the approach of the skeptics to explaining just
the Arnold sighting, one learns Maccabee's First Rule of
Debunking:  any published explanation is better than none.  The
Second Rule is, if the first explanation seems unconvincing or
just plain doesn't work, publish another.  The Corollary to the
Second Rule is (you guessed it!) if that doesn't work try yet
another.

The procedure of proposing explanations is part of the
scientific approach to explaining UFO sightings.  However,
simply proposing explanations is not sufficient.  It is the
"first half" of the method.  The other "half" of the method is
to test each proposed explanation against the information from
the sighting and to decide whether or not it is, at least,
convincing  (you may not be able to determine whether or not an
explanation is correct, but it is possible to determine whether
or not it is convincing).  Unfortunately Menzel, Klass and
other skeptics generally have not carried out this second half
of the scientific method.  Menzel simply proposed explanations,
one after another, as if it were logical to believe that the
more prosaic explanations one could offer for a sighting, the
more likely it is that the sighting could be (or has been)
explained by one of the explanations.  This, of course, makes
little sense.  Each sighting has one and only one explanation.
Thus the analyst should pick the best or most convincing
explanation out of a collection of potential explanations (by
using the complete scientific method on each sighting and
rejecting the unconvincing ones) and then publish that
explanation and only that explanation.  As a "rule of thumb" to
help the reader decide whether or not a sighting has been
explained, I would suggest that the larger the number of
proposed, unconvincing explanations, the less likely it is that
the sighting has been explained.

The Fantastic Flight of JAL1628

Klass followed the scientific procedure when he published his
analysis of the Val Johnson case discussed above.  Klass clearly
stated that the only prosaic explanation was a hoax by officer
Johnson, all others having been rejected by the testimony and
the hard evidence.  He then left it up to the reader to decide
whether or not he had made a convincing case for it being a
hoax.  However, he did not follow the scientific method in his
attempt to justify the meteor hypothesis for the Arnold
sighting, nor in his analysis of the following sighting that
occurred in 1986.

Japan Airlines Captain Kenju Terauchi had been mildly interested
in UFOs for years, but didn't get to see one close-up until
November 16, 1986.  He and two other crew members were flying a
747 Jumbo jet (designated JAL1628) that was transporting a load
of wine from Paris to Tokyo (and they didn't have one drop to
drink...nor one drink to drop!), when suddenly, while over
northeastern Alaska, they were confronted with a startling
event:  the appearance of two objects or "crafts" right in front
of their aircraft.  These objects suddenly appeared and
maintained a fixed distance, estimated at 1,000 feet, ahead of
their aircraft for about ten minutes (they were flying at 35,000
feet at about 600 mph).  The captain reported that he felt the
sudden occurrence of heat on his face.  Each object had two
parallel vertical rows of yellowish lights that appeared like
exhausts emitting flames.  Each object rocked from side to side,
and the rocking of the two objects was synchronized.  Initially
the objects were one above the other, but after several minutes
they suddenly moved to a side-by-side orientation.  They were
not recognized as any known aircraft by the crew, which reported
the event to the Anchorage, Alaska, Air Route Traffic Control
Center (ARTCC).  The ARTCC tracked the airplane on radar and
tried to detect the objects but was unable to do so.  About ten
minutes after their initial appearance, these "crafts" suddenly
disappeared from ahead of the airplane.  Within seconds of the
disappearance, the captain noticed a strange light, like a long
narrow fluorescent glow, at the left side of the airplane, quite
a distance away.  He turned on his airplane weather radar and
noticed a large radar return about eight miles away  in the
direction of the faint glow.  As the plane flew southward, this
light drifted behind the aircraft.  Suddenly, a lot more of it
became visible (by self- glow or by silhouette) and the captain
referred to it as a "gigantic spaceship."  This caused the
captain to request a decrease in altitude to get away from it.
At the same time the ARTCC requested that the plane make a
circle to see what was behind it.  Nothing was seen, but a radar
target was detected momentarily behind the aircraft.
Subsequently the aircraft was flying southward toward Anchorage
when the captain last saw the "gigantic spaceship" far to his
left and behind him, that is, roughly north of the aircraft.

The most complete report of this sighting ever published, along
with analysis and a discussion of the proposed explanations, is
presented in the article entitled "The Fantastic Flight of
JAL1628," which appears in the May-June, 1987, issue of the
International UFO Reporter (IUR), which is published by the
Center for UFO Studies (www.cufos.org).  An email version
(without nice illustrations) is available from the author.  The
above information above is a very shortened version of the
sighting but it contains enough information allow a proper
evaluation of the "prosaic explanations" proposed and publicized
by the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of
the Paranormal (CSICOP).  The sighting occurred in November,
1986.  The Federal Aviation Administration announced in early
January 1987 that it was going to investigate the sighting
because of all the press interest.  (This is anomalous by itself
since, so far as I know, the FAA had never investigated any
sighting before.)  Less than a month later, and more than a
month before the FAA announced the results of its investigation,
CSICOP announced that the sighting had been explained  ("UFO
Mystery Solved," press release by CSICOP on January 22, 1987,
Buffalo, NY).

The press release stated that, "according to a leading UFO
investigator" (Philip J. Klass) "at least one extraterrestrial
object was involved - the planet Jupiter, and possibly another -
Mars."  The press release asserted that at the time of the
sighting Jupiter was "extremely bright" at  a -2.6 magnitude and
would have been about ten degrees above the horizon on the left
side of the aircraft where the pilot first reported seeing the
UFO.  Mars would have been slightly lower and about twenty
degrees to the right of Jupiter.  According to the press
release, "Although the very bright Jupiter and less bright Mars
had to be visible to JAL Capt. Kenjyu Terauchi, the pilot never
once reported seeing either - only a UFO that he described as
being a 'white and yellow' light in his initial radio report to
the Federal Aviation Administration controllers at Anchorage."

The press release could have mentioned, but did not, that
Terauchi did report seeing numerous stars in the sky, city
lights, and a glow of sunset in the west.

The CSICOP explanation was based mostly on Klass' interpretation
of an early version of the transcript of the audio tape made at
the Anchorage ARTCC.  The radar tracking data were not made
available until over a month later, so Klass had no information
on the precise locations and flight directions of the plane at
the times of the various sighting events.  Therefore, he
couldn't prove that Jupiter and Mars were in the locations or
sighting directions (relative to the airplane) that he stated in
the press release.  On the other hand, there were rather
explicit descriptions and drawings by the captain which had been
widely publicized and which certainly were available to Klass
but apparently he ignored them.

Klass made a major error in not waiting for the release of the
complete information package by the FAA, because, if he had
waited, he would have found that the publicized versions of the
sighting were quite close to the descriptions of the "crafts"
that were given by the crew during interviews.  These
descriptions rule out Jupiter and Mars as possible causes of the
sighting.  Without the FAA data package he did not know that
initial drawings were made only about two hours after the event.
Nor did he know that the other crew members, in separate
interviews, supported the captain's report of the objects that
appeared in front of the plane.  Nor did he know that at the
beginning of the sighting the two crafts were almost directly
ahead of the plane and not in the direction of Jupiter and Mars.
Nor did he know about the sudden rearrangement of the relative
positions of the objects from one above the other to one beside
the other, a maneuver that Jupiter and Mars would have
difficulty carrying out during the time of the sighting (!).
Nor did he know that at the end of the sighting, while the plane
was flying southward,  nearly toward Jupiter and Mars,  that the
pilot reported the "gigantic spacecraft" was behind and to the
left, in a direction nearly opposite to the direction to the
planets.

The CSICOP press release discussed and rejected the FAA and Air
Force radar detections.  Curiously, however, it completely
ignored the claim by the pilot that the airplane radar did
detect a radar-reflective object at seven to eight miles in the
direction of the UFO.  Perhaps Klass rejected this claim,  but
if he had waited for the data package from the FAA, he would
have learned that the other two members of the crew confirmed
the pilot's statement about the radar detection.

Thus, the Jupiter-Mars explanation is contradicted by the
sighting directions to the UFO at various times, by the
descriptions of the crew members, and by the airplane radar
detection.  (Another "prosaic explanation" bites the dust!)
Unfortunately, the "gullible" press did not know that at the
time.  The explanation was widely publicized.  It made the
captain look like an idiot, but as far as the press was
concerned, that's OK.  Only idiots report UFOs.   Having done
their duty the news media promptly forget about the sighting.

In retrospect it appears that the CSICOP press release which was
marked "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE"  should have been marked "FOR
PREMATURE RELEASE."

The FAA finally did make a public report on the sighting on
March 5, 1988 ("FAA Releases Documents on Reported UFO Sighting
Last November,"  by Paul Steucke, Office of Public Affairs,
Alaskan Region, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), U.S.
Department of Transportation, March 5, 1987, Anchorage, AK).
This report concentrated on the controversy over the radar
detections or non-detections by the ARTCC.  It did not discuss
the airplane radar detection nor did it discuss the visual
sightings.  It basically said that the ground radar did not
support the claim of a sighting.  This was not, of course, the
same as saying there was no sighting, but the national press
presented the FAA investigation results as if they proved there
was no sighting.

The most important result of the FAA investigation was a data
package which the FAA made available.  This included radar data
listing the exact airplane locations, headings and speed, the
complete transcript of the ARTCC audio tape of the event and all
the transcipts of the interviews with the crew members and air
traffic controllers.  With this data package anyone could have
analyzed the sighting and concluded that Mars and Jupiter were
not the solution.

Apparently that is exactly what Klass did after my detailed
article was published by the Center for UFO Studies, because
several months later CSICOP published another explanation
(recall Maccabee's First Rule of Debunking mentioned above).
This time it was moonlight on clouds!  (Klass, P.J., "FAA Data
Sheds New Light on JAL Pilot's UFO Report,"   The Skeptical
Inquirer, Summer, 1987, Buffalo, NY)).  Since the moon was low
in the eastern sky Klass argued that the "crafts" were explained
as reflections of moonlight from the clouds and "turbulent ice
crystals."   According to Klass, the turbulent ice crystals
"could have generated flame-colored lights" (he didn't explain
how) and "this would also explain why the undulating lights
would periodically and suddenly disappear and then reappear as
cloud conditions ahead changed.  When the aircraft finally
outflew the ice clouds and the initial 'UFO' disappeared for
good (the Captain) would search the sky for it, spot Jupiter
further to the left and conclude it was the initial UFO."  Klass
attributed the airplane radar sighting to "an echo from thin
clouds of ice crystals."

Klass's explanation verges on scientific garbage.  Although the
crew reported there were thin clouds far below the plane there
is no reason to suppose that moonlight reflected off ice
crystals in these clouds would generate "flame colored lights."
Klass' explanation certainly could not account for the heat
which Terauchi felt on his face.  Nor would it explain the
peculiar parallel arrays of flames or yellowish lights
associated with two independently flying objects that appeared
ahead of and above the plane, continuously for many minutes.
Nor would it explain the sudden rearranging of these arrays of
lights.   According to Klass, the reflection from crystals could
explain the colors of the lights.  However, the reflected light
would be basically the color of the moonlight.   A variation in
color would occur only if the moonlight were "broken" into its
spectrum by refraction of light in the crystals (similar to what
happens with rain and a rainbow).  But the spectrum of white
light contains more than just the yellow, amber and green which
were reported.   Blue  and red should also have been noted if
the air crew were looking at what would essentially be a
"rainbow."

The lights ahead of the aircraft were described as bright.  The
copilot compared them to headlights of oncoming aircraft.  A
reflection of the moon from thin clouds would cover large areas
of cloud and would be dim, diffuse, or "patchy," but not
point-like.

Klass' explanation for the airplane radar target is total
conjecture on his part since the clouds were reported by the
crew to be thin.  Would there be any return at all from such
clouds?  One might ask, if there were so many clouds, why didn't
the radar pick up numerous "blobby" returns on the right side
and ahead of the aircraft as well as on the left where the
"gigantic spaceship" appeared to be.  And, of course, Klass'
explanation does not account for the appearance of a "gigantic
spaceship."

The bottom line is that Klass proposed two prosaic explanations
for this sighting but neither explanation was correct.  Each one
failed for physical reasons when compared with the information
in the sighting report.  The fact that he was able to propose
seemingly reasonable prosaic explanations was valuable from the
standpoint of publicity for the skeptical viewpoint and
debunking sightings, but it was useless from the point of view
of scientific analysis of UFO sightings.  This sighting, along
with those of officer Johnson, Kenneth Arnold, and A.C. Urie
remain unexplained and, in my opinion, will remain unexplained.



The Case of the Flashing Triangle

It is rare when the physics of the physical evidence in a
sighting absolutely proves a prosaic explanation to be wrong.
If there is physical evidence associated with a UFO sighting,
its value or pertinence is generally disputed by the skeptics,
who find some justification for ignoring the physical evidence
and thereby removing an impediment to accepting the proposed
explanation.  However, in the case I am about to discuss the
physical evidence stands on its own and MUST be explained if the
sighting is to be rejected as evidence for the ET or OI/NHI
hypothesis.

During the early morning of December 31, 1978 there was a series
of sightings off the east coast of the South Island of New
Zealand.  These sightings made news around the world.   While
flying on a freighter aircraft loaded with newspapers a TV news
crew saw and filmed strange lights which, in the opinion of the
experienced air crew (pilot, copilot) were extraordinary.  The
complete story has been published in the article entitled,
"Analysis and discussion of the Images of a Cluster of
Periodically Flashing Lights Filmed Of the Coast of New
Zealand," which is published in the  Journal of Scientific
Exploration, Vol 1 #2, 1981, pg. 149 (www.jse.com).  An email
version is available from the author.  The published article
presents the in-depth analysis of all the images in this section
of the movie film.  It is sufficient for this discussion to
describe only those few images which are of particular interest
here.

The TV news cameraman used a large Bolex electric camera with a
telephoto lens.  He held this camera on his shoulder because
there was no room on the flight deck for a tripod.  The flight
deck has windows at the front and sides positioned so that the
fields of view of the pilot and copilot, added together, is
somewhat more than 200 degrees from left to right (the pilot
sits on left side of the cockpit, the copilot on the right).
The cameraman sat in a seat between and slightly behind the
pilot and copilot and therefore had a field of view of less than
180 degrees. This is important to understand, because from his
position he could not film the right wing of the aircraft
without placing his camera lens directly in front of the copilot
or sitting in the copilot's seat.

At 2:51 a.m., near the end of the flight of the Argosy freighter
aircraft from Christchurch to Blenheim, the Wellington Air Route
Traffic Control Center (WARTCC) announced to the crew that there
was a large radar target north-northwest and about 20 miles
ahead of them.  They were about 20 miles east of  the coast,
approaching Cape Campbell, at the northeastern "corner" of the
South Island, at the time of the radar report.   The air crew
and the news crew recall seeing a light appear ahead of the
plane and the news reporter on board recorded a statement about
seeing a flashing light "like an aircraft beacon" that suddenly
dropped downward and started "rolling and turning."  He also
said that he could see "orange and red among the lights."  This
all appeared to be happening in the sky above the land or ocean
near the northeastern area of the South Island.

Although it is impossible to prove from direct evidence that the
cameraman filmed this same light (because there was no
synchronization between the filming and the audio tape), it can
be proven that this section of his film was taken in the same
time frame.  Moreover, the film does, indeed, show a flashing
light which cannot be identified with any known light in the
area.   Its flash rate is about once per second.

The movie camera created a series of pictures, called "frames,"
which recorded the images of the light, one after another, at a
rate of about ten frames (ten pictures) per second.  (The
cameraman intentionally slowed the frame rate from the normal 24
frames per second in order to be sure that he got good exposures
of the images.)  Looking frame-by-frame through the 279 frames
of the flashing light one finds that there are about ten frames
per cycle of the flash (nearly thirty cycles are on the film).
During each cycle the images start large and white or very pale
yellow (overexposed) and they shrink in size and brightness to
dim combinations of red and yellowish-orange and then increase
in brightness and size back to large and white.  It is of
importance, for comparison with the proposed prosaic
explanation, to note that the overexposed images have NO trace
of red associated with them.

Philip Klass devoted three chapters of the above cited book
(UFOs, The Public Deceived) to the famous New Zealand sightings.
He proposed numerous prosaic, though, in my opinion, wrong,
explanations for the lights seen and filmed and for the radar
targets which were reported during the flight of the aircraft,
first southward from Wellington to Christchurch and then
northward from Christchurch to Blenheim.  In Chapter 27 he
discussed the section of film which is of interest here.  Klass
described the flashing light in the film as follows: "a light
that fluctuates rapidly from dim red-orange to a bright white,
then back to red-orange, then back to bright white at
approximately the flash rate of the red-orange anti-collision
beacons installed atop and beneath the the Argosy's fuselage."

Here Klass refers to red, not red-orange, rotating beacons on
the top and bottom of the aircraft.  These beacons project
narrow beams of light that rotate around and appear as red
flashes to a distant observer.  These beacons were captured on
film by the cameraman before the flight began.  He set up his
camera on a tripod while the plane was still at the airport and
filmed the plane as the engines were warmed up in order to "run
in" his camera.  The images of these beacons show that when the
light is pointed at the camera and is, therefore, brightest, the
image is overexposed and consists of a yellow central circle
surrounded by a wide, red annular region, i.e., a red ring
around a yellow center.

Noticing that the flash rates of the upper beacon and the light
on the film were, for all practical purposes, equal, Klass
proposed that the flashing light on the film was actually the
upper beacon.  How could this have been done since there was no
way the cameraman could directly film the beacon from inside the
aircraft?  Klass writes: "(the cameraman) would not have been
able to film the topside beacon directly.  But its intense
illumination could have been reflected off one of the aircraft's
rotating propellor blades when the beacon rotation rate and the
propellor speed were roughly 'synchronized.'  Such
synchronization would have occurred when (the captain) began to
throttle back for his descent (into Blenheim), possibly
increasing the propellor pitch angle.  A short time later, when
he throttled back further, the requisite synchronization would
have been lost and the (UFO image) would mysteriously
disappear."

The images on the film vary considerably in shape and size from
frame to frame.  Klass offered the following explanation of the
image shape changes: "If (this section of film shows) a
reflection of the beacon from the curved surface of the
propellor blades, whose rotation rate was not perfectly
synchronized with the rotating topside beacon, it readily
explains the remarkable changes in shape, size and appearance of
the (UFO) images that occur in a fraction of a second."

The actual explanation for the shape change is straightforward
and has nothing to do with a hypothetical temporary
synchonization of the beacon and the propellor rotation.  Since
the cameraman supported the camera on his shoulder in a moving,
vibrating airplane most of the images were smeared by camera
motion.  However, some images were either not smeared or were
smeared very slightly.  This is because the camera pointing
direction vibrated about some average position.  Each time the
image moved away from the center of the film the cameraman would
twist the camera to recenter the image.  The image would reach a
maximum distance from center and then the image motion would
momentarily cease before the direction reversed and the image
moved back toward the center.  Therefore, the frames obtained
during moments of direction reversal, the "stationary frames,"
contain images that were not smeared or smeared very little.
The brightest white images in these stationary frames are
circular or nearly circular.   The white and red-orange images
that occur between stationary frames were stretched by the
camera motion into "hot dog" shapes (elongated).  The stationary
frames which contain the dimmest, smallest images show a very
unique arrangement of lights: a triangle consisting of an orange
"dot" image just above two side-by-side red "dot" images.

Klass points out in his book that I rejected his hypothesis that
the UFO image could have been a result of filming the reflection
off the propellor of the beacon.  Unfortunately, however, he did
not describe my objections to his hypothesis even though he
should have known what they were because of our extensive
discussions of this sighting in numerous letters long before he
wrote his book.

My first objection is not based on physics but on the fact that
the cameraman, from his middle seat, could not have filmed in
the direction of the propellor without putting his camera in
front of the copilot or sitting in the copilot's seat, and
neither the cameraman nor the copilot recall either such event.

The second objection is based on fundamental physics
(optics/photography) and is, in fact, devastating to Klass'
"prosaic explanation."  (As mentioned above, I made him aware of
this objection but he did not include it in his book.)

The clues have already been given and the astute reader may have
already deduced the second objection.  It is most evident in the
comparison of the bright, overexposed UFO images with the
bright, overexposed beacon images.  As I stated above, the
cameraman filmed the red flashing upper (and lower) beacon
before the plane took off.  The film shows that when the beacon
was pointed toward the camera the images were relatively large
and consisted of a yellow central circular area surrounded by a
wide red annular region.  The yellow center is caused by
overexposure to the extent that the film cannot produce the
correct color (it produces pale yellow rather than red because
more film color layers than just the red-producing layer have
been exposed by the extreme intensity of the light).  The red
annular region is a result of light scattering sideways in the
film.  As the light scatters sideways from the extremely bright
central region of the image, the intensity decreases to a level
at which the film can produce the correct color, in this case,
red.  (Example: had the light been green there would be a pale
center with a very green annulus around it.)

This is completely different from the brightest images on the
UFO film, however.  A careful examination of the overexposed
images shows that the centers are white or very pale yellow and
there is NO red annular region.  That means that these images
were absolutely NOT made by filming a red light, whether
directly, as by having the camera film directly toward the
beacon, or indirectly, such as by reflecting the beacon light
off the rotating propellor blades.  (There is another
optical/photographic reason for rejecting the
"propellor-reflected-light" hypothesis:  a reflection off
propellor blades would be extremely weak because the blades do
not "fill up" the space. After all, propellor blades "disappear"
and you can "see through them" when they are rotating rapidly.
Any reflection under such circumstances would be extremely weak
and diffuse and very unlikely to cause any overexposed images.)

Hence Klass' explanation is rejected for perfectly good physical
reasons.  (Note:  a TRue UFO might be able to violate physics as
we know it, but known objects such as beacons, cameras, and film
cannot violate physics as we know it.  The previous argument
against the beacon hypothesis is based on well-known optical
physics.)

The logical, skeptical response to the absolute rejection of
this explanation would be, of course, to propose another
explanation.   Since the airplane was flying many miles off the
east coast of the South Island of New Zealand, and since there
were beacons along the shore, the first logical suggestion would
be that the film shows one of these beacons. The cameraman said
he was certain that he had not filmed a beacon.   He said that
whenever he saw a light which he couldn't identify he asked the
pilot or copilot to identify it.  The air crew was, of course,
familiar with the beacons in the area and told the cameraman
which lights were beacons.  The statement by the cameraman is
supported by a comparison of the film images with known beacons.
Careful analysis of the film indicates that the source of the
images was a triangular arrangement of lights consisting of a
pale yellowish-orange light that pulsated at about 1 Hz, which
was above two pulsating side-by-side red lights.  The intensity
of the upper light ranged from effectively zero (no image) to
such a large value that it overexposed the film.  The red lights
also pulsated at 1 Hz,  but in the opposite phase: when the
upper light was at zero brightness the red lights were maximum,
and vice versa.  The red lights never got bright enough to
overexpose the film.  Using information supplied by the New
Zealand government a search was made of all the beacons within
about 50 miles of the aircraft.  None of the beacons had a
triangular arrangement of lights.  Moreover, all the beacons
were found to be too weak, too far away,  to have the wrong
flash period, or the wrong color.  There is no beacon that could
account for the film.

Yet another logical suggestion would be another aircraft.
However, there were no other aircraft flying in that area of New
Zealand at the time, according to the air traffic controller who
was monitoring the Argosy flight to Blenhiem.

The possibility that the film showed light from a boat was
considered.  There are no flashing lights such as this on boats
(which have steady lights that do not change color).  The only
boats with lights bright enough to make overexposed images at
long distances are squid fishing boats.  They use very bright
incandescent lights to lure squid to the surface at night for
netting.  The Japanese squid fleet was in New Zealand waters at
the time, but their lights are steady and only white.

Yet another suggested explanation is that there was an emergency
vehicle or police car with its lights flashing on the land
closest to the airplane.  Aside from the fact that emergency
vehicles do not carry lighting of the type that would create
images such as this, the pilot checked with the authorities and
was told that there were no emergency or law-enforcement
vehicles traveling the New Zealand highways and byways near the
location of the plane at the time.

Another suggestion was that a light inside the aircraft was
filmed.  However, this suggestion was rejected because there
were no flashing lights inside the aircraft and, furthermore,
the captain had turned off all the cockpit lights, leaving only
steady, dim red meter lights on the control panels.

As a last resort one might propose a distant bright planet on
the horizon, fluctuating in brightness and color as a result of
random atmospheric refractions.  However, such fluctuations
would not be perfectly steady and furthermore, Venus, the only
astronomical light source bright enough to produce images
remotely like these, was not visible at the time.

Now you know the reason that Klass proposed the upper beacon
explanation:  he was aware, from our considerable correspondence
on this sighting, that all the other explanations had failed.
The only remaining light that had a remote chance of explaining
the sighting was the upper beacon, because of the near
equivalence of the flash rate.  Then Klass had to propose an
auxiliary hypothesis to explain how the beacon could be filmed
from inside the aircraft by reflection off the propellor.  This
was very clever, but unconvincing to the experienced optical
physicist.  But the final rejection of his hypothesis is based
on the images of overexposed red lights as described above.

Without any other known sources of light to create the film
images, this has to be considered unexplained and I know of no
reason to believe that it will be eventually explained.   It is
a TRue UFO.  If we assume that the lights which made these
images were part of the object detected by radar at 2:51 a.m.,
at a distance of about 20 miles ahead of the airplane, then
quantitative estimates can be made of the intensity and spacings
of the lights (see the above cited reference for details of the
calculations).   From the spacing of the "dots" in the
triangular images (orange "dot" above to side-by-side red
"dots") one can calculate that the red lights were about 50 feet
apart and the yellow-orange light was about 90 ft above the red
lights.  (Note: the calculated spacing is proportional to the
distance assumed.  If the lights were closer the spacing was
less.)   At its peak brightness the intensity of the upper light
was considerably over a million candlepower.  It was as if a
powerful, pulsating spotlight had been pointed toward the
witnesses on the airplane.



Conclusion

The few sightings discussed here are important because they
illustrate the problem faced by skeptics who would argue that,
because there are prosaic explanations for all sightings, there
is no evidence for ET/NHI/OI contact.  The problem faced by the
skeptics is that there are sightings for which the generally
accepted (by skeptics!) prosaic explanations are wrong or at
least unconvincing.  The failure of UFO skepticism, from the
scientific point of view, has been to allow such explanations to
be accepted by the scientific community.  If UFOs were "ordinary
science," the proposed explanations would have been rigorously
analyzed, and probably rejected, rather than simply accepted.
Scientific ufology needs skeptics, but skeptics who are capable
of recognizing when a sighting simply cannot be explained by any
prosaic explanation.


-----








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                         From The Sceptic's Tank...

From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:05:14 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:47:51 -0500
Subject: From The Sceptic's Tank...


List,

There is a hilarious short film on the IFILM.com website titled
"HERD".  It's about a guy, a gray alien and the fun that they
have together.

http://www.ifilm.com/films.taf?film_id=72837

Also, thanks to Phil K., Joe N., Robert B. and stealth blimps
over Illinois for giving me reason to laugh again.

Seriously, I commend the police officers who were brave enough
to step forward and speak about what they witnessed on January
5th over southern Illinois.

The recent CSICOP press interviews/press releases appear to me
to be demeaning toward the innocent witnesses of unusual and
anomolous phenomenon in our skies.  CSICOP seems at times to do
nothing more than to cause confusion in the public's mind
concerning UFOs.  A quick look at their website tells me that
they do nothing more than to 'whip the dead horses' of
astrology, superstitions, urban legends, etc. and to vye for
media exposure with the likes of Steve Allen. I didn't see any
in-depth essays or investigative articles dealing with the UFO
problem.  I do know, thanks to CSICOP, which psychic predictions
failed to come true in 1999.   For that, I do have to thank
them.

Maybe someone should send them a copy of the new Peter Sturrock
book so that they can review what actual scientific
investigation and open-minded enquiry into the UFO problem is
all about.  You never know, one of the next Nobel Prizes may
come out of scientific research related to this phenomenon.
Shouldn't we attempt to advance scientifically if we're given
the opportunity?

Jeff Westover,
UFO witness










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                   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:48:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings


 >Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2096 08:58:25 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hello, all, Jerome,

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:48:45 -0800
 >>From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:38:16 -0800 (PST)
 >>>From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >>>Subject: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Couldn't help but laugh a bit while reading this article. The
 >>>"experts" in this article sure do a great job of pulling out all
 >>>the stops. This could be a candidate for debunking article of
 >>>the year.



Yep, I agree, people like the reporter who wrote this wouldn't
aknowlege seeing something unusual as unusual even if bitten (or
as I understand,gummed) on the knee by one of the occupants.

 >>>From:
 >>>http://insidedenver.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=UFO-SIGHTING-01-25-00&cat=AN

 >This unintentionally hilarious piece reads like a CSICOP
 >press release.  If I had to put money on it, I'd bet that
 >the reporter is a subscriber to Skeptical Inquirer;
 >she certainly seems to know who the leading debunkers are.
 >She doesn't seem to have a clue, however, about responsible
 >ufologists who could have given her a more balanced
 >assessment. That's assuming, naturally, that she wanted one,
 >a proposition for which there is no evidence whatever.

Hey, there are no responsible UFOlolgists-except for Klass. and
her mind is made up . Witnesses included or deluded, include
police officers ,who actually tried to photgraph the thing, and
yes it could be one of ours, but the explination by Klass is of
course difficult to swallow.

 >>>Klass, often called the dean of UFO research, said the object,
 >>>described as flying slowly and silently, was probably a hoax or
 >>>some kind of a balloon with intense lights or flares. "I would
 >>>suspect this report is bogus," Klass said.

Probably somthing generating a lot of hot air-he's an expert on
that for shure.

 >>If I thought the rest was bad enough, this para really got to
 >>me! WHO calls Klass the 'dean' of UFO research?


Sort of like trying to determine who's yer favortie Stooge
Curly (my own hero and role model)? Larry, Moe? I'm shure
someone (probably in the reporters mind) has declared
Klass a 'Dean' of somthing .


 >Good question: till now I, too, have never heard Klass called
 >the "dean of UFO research," much less "often."  (I've heard him
 >called a few other things, sometimes often.) Oh well, if you're
 >a debunker, factual detail doesn't matter.  Reminds me of a
 >sneering reference debunker Robert Sheaffer made years ago to
 >Allen Hynek, calling him the "self-styled Galileo of ufology."
 >Reading Sheaffer, you'd think that Hynek was comparing _himself_
 >to Galileo, a vile falsehood if ever there was one. In fact, it
 >was Newsweek that had compared Allen, who was a modest,
 >unassuming man who would never have thought of himself so
 >grandiosely, to Galileo.

There are so many on both sides that think they have the answer
Klass on one side folk like Bell and $trieber on the other.Here
I stand, with just questions including my own 'nuts and bolts'
experience of long ago-and it wasn't any balloon or a Disc
shaped group of flocking pelicans.

I don't advertise this out side the forum. I learned long ago to
keep my mouth shut because I would be slammed by sceptics or
welcomed as a 'true believer' by the ,well, 'Space
Brothers/Pleidaean ' Klowns.

Thanks, Jerry  a great Critique-

GT McCoy

Also I'd like to point out that the need for Skepticisum in
ufology is there and even I maintain a certain threshold of
belief/skeptic thought.As long as it  doesn't degrade into a pie
fight.... Nyuk nyukknuknuk, debate is good.








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                   Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:09:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:53:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings


 >Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2096 08:58:25 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Sceptics Question Midwest Sightings
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


These messages refer to the recent article by Heather
Ratcliffe of the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

At the Post Dispatch site (do a web search for post-dispatch)
you will find another article, this one by George Johnson,
published last Friday. More evenhanded.









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Thomas E Morris <Temorris@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:02:27 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:57:15 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >features.

<snip>

 >at size would not only be too big
 >to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >interest.

I've had 3 "odd" experiences in my life.  I'll make no claims of
abduction because I'm not sure I believe in it.  They're just
"holes" where my normal consciousness just sort of ceased to
exist.

My impression of the alien appearance is that it is not real.
Maybe some kind of suit or mask to allow them free travel in our
environment. Maybe something else, but I never felt that it was
flesh & bone. The eyes are a part of this wardrobe.

If anyone has comments or other similar ideas, I'd very much
like to hear them.

Have fun,

Tom

Temorris@pacbell.net








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                               Re: T.T.Brown?

From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:47:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:05:52 -0500
Subject: Re: T.T.Brown?


Does anyone know URLs about the work of T.T.Brown who was
a founding-member of the old NICAP?

Thanks

Werner Walter, CENAP, Germany

http://www.alien.de/cenap









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:17:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:11:26 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
 >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
 >>eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
 >>within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
 >>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >>I tried making the head bigger and bringing the eyes much
 >>further apart to incorporate the eyeball size, the result looked
 >>very unlike the description most people give and would still
 >>leave little room for a brain.

 >>Next time someone draws a sketch of an alien that supposedly
 >>abducted them, look at the eyes.

 >>Imagine looking down on the creature so you can see the contour
 >>of the eye and follow it round and you'll see what I mean.

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

 >I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
 >it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
 >appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
 >like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
 >"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
 >lenses.

 >So I've read anyway.

 >For what its worth ...


Hi Brian,

A brilliant observation, I too have thought along these lines,
except instead of the eyes as a lens the whole face as a mask.
Unless someone knows differently I have always had reports from
'abductees' that the aliens had expressionless faces.

Thanks for the input, appreciated.

Dave.









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:40:27 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:13:12 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:24:15 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >(One of Whitley Strieber's remarks in 'Communion' is that the
 >archetypal alien head on the cover isn't as big as what he
 >observed. And since I seem to have been under attack lately, let
 >me stress that this isn't a whole-hearted endorsement for
 >Strieber...or any other "abductee.")

I am glad you picked up on that, the creature depicted on the
the cover of 'Communion' was a cartoon character.

 ><snip>

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

 >"Impossible creatures"?  Not really.  Possibly just _weird_
 >creatures.  They're supposed to be aliens, right?

I was kind of hoping that no-one would give me that "they're
aliens so anything goes" jive.

Oh per-leese.

Dave.









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:15:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:15:11 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:59:00 -0800
 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >>(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >>thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >>features.

 ><snip>

 >>at size would not only be too big
 >>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

 >The problem is you're making two assumptions which might not be
 >accurate! First, are we sure the surface of the 'eye' is
 >actually curved like our is? I have read nothing that suggests
 >it is.  In fact, it sticks in my mind that it has been described
 >as flat.

I have never seen this description, I would be interested if you
could forward on some info to me.

 >And two, you are assuming that the creature would have
 >eye'balls' like us. We know from the way cameras work, that an
 >image can be glimpsed accurately without a ball like device to
 >register the picture on.  I've never seen curved film.

I too have never seen curved film, but I have seen cameras that
rotate in the XY co-ords, thus imitating the eye.

 >Is it not possible the eye structure is either conical with
 >perhaps a curved back or even maybe flat back.  In either case,
 >the eyes can then fit side by side quite comfortably!

Possibly we are looking at natural selection here, nature will
(no matter what planet you are on) select the ball for complete
control as apposed to the conical.

 >And don't forget those who have suggested it seemed to them that
 >perhaps the covering of the eye was artificial, and the real eye
 >is behind it.  Rather like built in sunglasses!?

Or visor, just a slightly different design.

 >Am looking forward to comments on this one!  I guess its a safe
 >assumption that no evidence from the AA film will be allowed to
 >be used in this discussion? ;-))  Although I do recall hoping to
 >see exactly what the eye would look like and I don't recall
 >getting an answer to my question.  Only saw it once though.

Funnily enough I did notice the creatures eyes in the AA film,
although big, not so big as to be impossible.

In fact the creature very much resembled those described by
Betty Hill, remember those guy's? before all the hype started??

Dave.









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                       Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:39:54 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:19:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:29:12 +1100
 >From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
 >Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:54:48 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 16:13:05 +0800
 >>>From: Sharon Kardol <sharon@hotmix.com.au>
 >>>Subject: Re: Comet Debris Rains on Spain
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Maybe it was alien ice cubes, to go with Gripple, which they
 >>drink a lot of. And of course, alien ice cubes are made in
 >>special alien molds.  And they come out really hard.

 >>>Then there is the exponential increase in recent days - 20
 >>>chunks of ice found on Tuesday alone. At least half a dozen were
 >>>quickly proven to be practical jokes - including a seven-pound
 >>>block with perfectly sharp edges.

 >>I told you about that already.  But I still find it really
 >>difficult to imagine how them dudes got the ice there.  I mean,
 >>did they rent a small aircraft with a large fridge in it?  And
 >>then push the hard ice out the side door?  Or maybe it really
 >>was pelicans and they pooped and tinkled whilst really high.  In
 >>the air I mean. And the stuff froze on the way down.  Huh?

 >>The moral of this story, the moral of this tome, is that one
 >>should never be, where one does not belong.  Meaning, methinks,
 >>that pelican poop, pelican tinkle, ice from the sky, the answer
 >>to the question of God the Universe and Everything, matters not
 >>one dot.  Unless you guys are really hard up for a dose of
 >>something to say on the subject of UFOs and related stuff.

 >>Hell, I would almost prefer to hear from Dennis Stacey than this
 >>stuff.

 >>Well.... almost anyway.

 >Hi Jim

 >I found this artical but it would appear these guys dont agree
 >with each other  never the less its interesting:>)

 >Regards Diane
 >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 >U. Washington Physicist says little comets are black snow on
 >screen http://www.trufax.org/level2/level2.shtml

 >Giant snowballs in space? No, says researcher, they're simply
 >black snow on the TV screen

 >Contact: David Brand, UW News and Information. Phone:
 >(206)-543-2580. Fax: (206)-685-0658.

 >San Francisco -- When University of Iowa space physicist Louis
 >Frank presented his evidence last May, he had much of thescience
 >community shivering with anticipation. He claimed to have
 >discovered 20- to 40-ton cosmic snowballs, the size ofhouses,
 >pelting the Earth at the rate of 30,000 a day. What's more,
 >Frank presented images he had captured of the giant snowballs.

<snip>

 >Is Parks then denying the existence of cosmic snowballs? "The
 >burden is on Frank, he's  got to prove they exist," Parks says.
 >"He is seeing things that are scientifically not permitted.  It
 >would, for example, be easy for me to say these dark spots are
 >UFOs, but it would be up to me to prove it."


Hi all,

Here we have a picture of the complete and very Klassic nimboid
personality.  Allow me the luxury of an example or two prior to
bringing it all home in a final and orgasmic denouement (not in
continuous wave though - EBK is such a stickler for fax, except
when he's in his Gripple cups).

There is a cartoon picture in my doctor's office. It is in proud
display at the cashier's office.  It is a picture of this poor
man with a saw though his body, entering his lower left quadrant
in the rear and exiting about where the appendix might be.  Big
saw.  Of course, the man is in agony and is barely able to reach
his chin up to the receptionsist's desk, feet dragging behind.
He is also losing a great deal of body fluids.

The, uh, nurse, at the desk remarks, "I am sorry Mr. Smith,
but your HMO does not recognize your complaint.  Therefore
we are unable to treat you!"

There is the other story about this poor family in the welfare
office in NYC.  Bedraggled and tattered, the mommy, with a
terribly sad look on her face, asks for money to feed her
thirty-seven kids, as the father has left them for some obscure
reason.

The welfare employee, wearing black tie and a diamond stick pin,
tells her, "I am sorry Mrs. Smith, but the City of NY does not
recognize your particular problem.  You are therefore not
entitled to assistance.

Now for that orgasmic finale.  Are you ready for this?

Fill Class, looking up at The Classic Flying Saucer.  In it's
beam is a Pelican, crapping to beat the band, in fear. Fill's
expression is one of calm, deliberative, cool and very firm look
of confidence.  The caption reads, "You, do not exist.  Pelican
guano is no proof that you are a flying saucer.  You are nothing
more than swamp gas."

In the next caption, the swamp gas is taking Fill into it's
belly, undressing him and getting ready to mate him with an
insectoid critter.  A beautiful female mantis type, at least
from the neck down.  A little skinny for Fill's tastes, but not
bad, you know?  The caption on this one reads, "Oh Cheeses, not
again!  Why can't they give me Pia Zadora?"

Oh no.  No orgasm?  Sorry, it was good for me, though.

Jim Mortellaro







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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:51:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:21:01 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Hi Dave

<snip>

 >Next time someone draws a sketch of an alien that supposedly
 >abducted them, look at the eyes.

 >Imagine looking down on the creature so you can see the contour
 >of the eye and follow it round and you'll see what I mean.

 >Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >interest.

Dave, you might not know but in the Travis Walton abduction
case, he described the eyes as part of a suit, the "grey suit"
as a "coverall" affair. Which would make the big black eyes
kinda like sunshades. I mean could you _create_ a human's pair
of eyes if you saw a man/woman wearing Raybans?

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:09:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:26:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Another thing.  Why aren't all of you who profess these
 >sightings documenting them with video and 35 mm film shots?
 >Isn't it amazing how all of these sightings are either made by
 >those who don't have a camera of some kind available, or take
 >pictures of "lights" in the sky, which have no definition or
 >background by which to measure their density?

 >In todays climate, there is no excuse for not having a camera
 >with you at virtually any time.  In your car, in your bag or
 >purse.

 >Police cars equiped with old technology video cameras.  They
 >should all have night vision capabilities, for obvious reasons,
 >not including UFO sightings.

 >Just for your information...I carry a 35 mm camera, binoculars,
 >micro-cassette recorder/player, electromagnetic field detector,
 >compass and geiger counter in my car all the time, and many times
 >I also carry a stereo, High-8mm camcorder and tripod!

 >Always carry a tripod!  Enough of these shaky little lights in
 >the black night sky.

Yeah, right, at 10:30 on a cold November evening taking my Irish
Setter out for a last pee before bedtime, I am expected to be
fully equipped with my camera - with all correct night settings
- plus a tripod, electromagnetic field detector, compass and
Geiger counter - oh yea, and a stereo, high-8mm camcorder!  Have
I got that right?

You forget, most of the people who see something unusual in the
sky,  don't believe in ufos to begin with, so are unlikely to go
to the expense of buying all that equipment to take a good shot
of something they don't believe exists. Much less break their
shoulders carrying it around or risk theft in their car.

And those of us who do believe, especially those of us who have
always believed there is such a thing, but have gone on faith,
and have never seen anything, are to be expected to be ready in
a second because after all these years, something just might be
there, are also expected to have such items on our person at all
times.

If you are not accustomed to seeing anomalies in the sky,
(whether you are a believer or not) the shock of actually seeing
something unusual tends to cause a few seconds of mental
confusion which can cost valuable time which should you suggest
be spent getting that camcorder or camera up to your eye and
getting a shot that includes at least two earth based points of
reference so that the height, size etc can be determined later
by angulation.  And heaven help you if you haven't got the
camcorder settings right for night sky or the camera pre-set.

And if the anomaly does something really weird, like suddenly break into
four equal sized lights on a horizontal line, which then move up in unison
and then disappear, then if you are holding a still camera, you better
quickly switch to the camcorder hanging from the other shoulder so you don't
miss it!

The speed required to do this can vary from a few seconds to a
few minutes, so you better have superhuman response times.

Sure.......

I know one chap who is so fixated on ufos and has been since
childhood, that every time he looks up at night he sees a ufo!
There is no sudden shock or surprise at all for him!  If he
could afford all that equipment, he would have it and he would
have tons of pictures of... stars!

The expert quoted in the original story talked about seeing ufos
because they expect to!  After 47 years of seeing nothing
anomalous in the sky, my sighting, different from anything I
have ever even read about in all those years, caught me totally
unprepared as it does most people.  Proving the expert was as
out to lunch as you suggesting the exact opposite!  We are
supposed to be ready and armed every moment and expecting to see
something? How ludicrous!

But then, maybe if my friend was able to get his hands on all
that equipment, you might accept all the pictures he takes as
legitimate?  Just because he was 'prepared'!  And I have no
credibility because I was just helping my dog respond to the
call of nature!!!!

Other than that minor problem with your note, I agreed with
everything else!

Lesley

here on the farm still staring upwards, and still unprepared!









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:17:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:29:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:02:27 +0000
 >From: Thomas E Morris <Temorris@pacbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >>(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >>thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >>features.

 ><snip>

 >>at size would not only be too big
 >>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

 >My impression of the alien appearance is that it is not real.
 >Maybe some kind of suit or mask to allow them free travel in our
 >environment. Maybe something else, but I never felt that it was
 >flesh & bone. The eyes are a part of this wardrobe.

 >If anyone has comments or other similar ideas, I'd very much
 >like to hear them.


Tom,

Your description is right on the mark, this is exactly the kind
of thing I was getting at.

It is very possible that the face we are presented with is a
mask, either to fit in with present day conceptions of an alien
(no one seems to see Klaatu anymore) or simply for survival in
our environment.

Coming from someone who can quite honestly say he's never been
abducted I thank you for your insight.

Dave.








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:31:43 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
 >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><<snip>

 >>Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
 >>eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
 >>within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
 >>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 ><snip>

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

Brian wrote:

 >I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
 >it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
 >appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
 >like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
 >"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
 >lenses.

 >So I've read anyway.

 >For what its worth ...

 >-Brian

Hi Brian, hi All,

Mr. C I have a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" type
question for you. Do you know if any of these 'eye covering'
accounts precede the Alien Autopsy film? It would be interesting
to know if there was an increase in reports which include the
'sunglasses' detail -after- the film was released.

Just curious.

Regards,

John Velez

________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:52:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:36:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:02:27 +0000
 >From: Thomas E Morris <Temorris@pacbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >>(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >>thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >>features.

 ><snip>

 >>at size would not only be too big
 >>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

Tom writes:

 >I've had 3 "odd" experiences in my life.  I'll make no claims of
 >abduction because I'm not sure I believe in it.  They're just
 >"holes" where my normal consciousness just sort of ceased to
 >exist.

I don't know the details of what you "experienced" so I'm
talking through my hat here. But... if your "experiences" are
composed solely of "holes in your normal consciousness" I don't
know why you'd suspect 'UFO abduction' as an explanation. You do
not mention "UFOs" or "Aliens." Were you even awake when these
"gaps" occurred?

"Missing time" is one thing, a "hole in your normal
consciousness" could indicate a medical problem. You should have
yourself checked out by your family physician. Have you reported
these "gaps in consciousness" to your doctor Tom? Seeing the
doctor would confirm or deny 'physical problems' as an
explanation for these "gaps."

 >My impression of the alien appearance is that it is not real.
 >Maybe some kind of suit or mask to allow them free travel in our
 >environment. Maybe something else, but I never felt that it was
 >flesh & bone. The eyes are a part of this wardrobe.

Wow Tom, that's an awful lot of information to have pulled out
of a "hole." I gather from this statement that these "holes in
normal consciousness" are not -empty holes.- Sounds like your
"holes" are 'filled' with alien imagery.

 >If anyone has comments or other similar ideas, I'd very much
 >like to hear them.

Don't fool around with a symptom as serious as a "gap in normal
consciousness" Tom. See a doctor for your own sake.

Regards,

John Velez - (one with no doubt)
________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________









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                               Re: T.T.Brown?

From: Jess Fritch <jfritch@providenet.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:39:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:54:59 -0500
Subject: Re: T.T.Brown?


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:47:36 -0500
 >From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: T.T.Brown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone know URLs about the work of T.T.Brown who was
 >a founding-member of the old NICAP?

 >Thanks

 >Werner Walter, CENAP, Germany

 >http://www.alien.de/cenap

Hi

My name is Jess Fritch, I have been studing electrogravitics for
the past 9 years and I have a web page now at:

www.gravitydrive.com

I hope to have my full site up in about 1 to 2 weeks. Also try
this site:

http://members.aol.com/jnaudn509/

Let me know if you have any questions.








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:53:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:02:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:47:41 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:56:59 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:42:13 -0500
 >>>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>>Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I go to "skywatches" for the specific reason to "see a UFO." I
 >>don't see anything which I can't in all good consciounce
 >>identify as astronomical, aeronautical, or weather related
 >>phenomena.

 >Michael:

 >Have you ever been at one of those skywatches when others
 >thought they saw a UFO but you did not?  To what did you
 >attribute this? Your standards or powers of critical thinking
 >may just be higher than that of many others.

 >Clear skies,

 >Bob Young


Yes, I have.  After discussing the sighting, I was able to offer
suggested alternatives, yet at the same time not take from the
observer his/her right to have their own interpretation of what
they preceived.

In fact, I have attended one with you... do you remember?

Kathie Grimes... Morgantown, Ky. MUFON....

Rigth? <G>

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:23:09 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 02:43:06 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:22 -0500
 >From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
 >>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >><snip>

 >>>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>>interest.

 >Brian wrote:

 >>I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
 >>it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
 >>appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
 >>like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
 >>"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
 >>lenses.

 >>So I've read anyway.

 >>For what its worth ...

 >>-Brian

 >Hi Brian, hi All,

 >Mr. C I have a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" type
 >question for you. Do you know if any of these 'eye covering'
 >accounts precede the Alien Autopsy film? It would be interesting
 >to know if there was an increase in reports which include the
 >'sunglasses' detail -after- the film was released.

 >Just curious.


John,

I can't answer your question;  I know I've read the above
"lens" description at least 3-4 separate times, in various
places.  At least a couple were in books by abductees.  Its one
of those details that "sticks", for whatever reason.  I even remember
one abductee describing how (s)he was permitted to look through
those lenses somehow, and was able to see all sorts of amazing
things - right thru people etc.  Must be pretty neat technology, eh?
(assuming you give it any credence).

But I couldn't point you at relevant passages, or books for that
matter, if my life depended on it.  So I couldn't date anything for
you as being pre- or post-AA film.  Heck, I can't even assign a
hard AA film "date" to use in pre- or post-dating such details.
Maybe some list denizen besides than me could provide that.

Onward,

-Brian C.







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 02:50:51 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:26 -0600
 >to: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Gee, Ed. Make up your mind. On the one hand you maintain that
 >I'm dead wrong because the containment suit issue is nothing but
 >"hearsay"; on the other hand, you go to great lengths to try and
 >justify the improper usage that you just said didn't exist!

I don't know why the doctors were wearing the suits or if they
were wearing them in the proper manner. Since its the only
historical fact that seems to be out of place, I suggested other
reasons that could explain why. The point I was making is that
many have said that this or that fact invalidates the AA and
have later been proved wrong ie. the coiled phone. I think this
is flimsy evidence to base your historical case on. And even if
you are right about the hazard suit protocol, it doesn't mean
that these doctors followed it, for what ever reasons they had.

 >More nonsense from Ed. Orderly's are not used the operating room
 >under any condition. Operating rooms are restricted to vital
 >personal only. And just how much "dissection" did you see while
 >working in the ER, Ed?

I worked at two hospitals in Albuquerque NM while I was
attending school at UNM. I was usually the only male orderly on
call for the PM shift & weekends and was in charge of all male
surgical preps and assisted when necessary for PM surgery. I had
total access to every part of the hospital and was a good friend
to many of the doctors(their right hand man). I worked out of ER
where in those days we did much of the minor surgery. I also saw
a few autopsies. This was from 1957-1959. In 1961 I also worked
at Kaiser Hospital in San Francisco as their ER orderly and
surgery prep person. The AA doctors sure acted and looked like
doctors to me. Point out one mistake they made or miscue of any
kind. One of the first things Ray did was show the footage to
doctors and none of them saw any problems. I will agree that its
a subjective judgment.

 >>Name one special effects expert that has
 >>attempted to duplicate the alien and failed. Tell us where we
 >>can see the results. I work in special effects on a daily basis
 >>and would like to study the attempts you speak of. If you can't
 >>direct us to a web site, then how about a name and address so I
 >>can talk to these "effects experts" that have tried in vain to
 >>duplicate AA. Or is this another claim you've pulled out of thin
 >>air?

 >Ed, this is getting embarrassing. Following is an exact excerpt
 >of what you wrote:

 >>Not one of the special effects experts has been able to recreate
 >>the creature or anything resembling the creature or any part of
 >>the creature. Many have talked about how easy it would be, but
 >>no one has succeeded.

Yes that's what I said. No special effects expert has been able
to recreate the creature. Have they? Is there any place where I
said they tried and failed. Some may have but I don�t know if
that's a fact. All I know is that I haven�t seen any such
recreations. If there is some mistake in phrasing then I
apologize but it wasn�t intended. So OK none have tried. I'll
certainly agree to that since its what I intended to say in the
first place. Why?.. because it�s probably impossible. I think
they would have if they could have.

 >Hey, Ed! I've got an even easier idea! Why don't you give us
 >some evidence to back up your claims about the special effects
 >and the doctors and the containment suits! How about a name and
 >address; something to show you care; not just big talk and
 >nothing else.

My only claim is that the hazard suit issue is still open to
debate. There is absolutely no way we can prove it one way or
the other and therefore it should not be used as proof, for
anything. If its your only proof that the AA is historically
inaccurate, then you're on very weak footing.


 >>I don't necessarily believe that the creature is an ET either.

 >Then what's the point of all this if it's not?

This is the very problem that I�m trying to address. We have no
way of knowing just what the creatures are since we can never
get to that point before someone shouts "the creatures can't be
used as examples since they are a pile of crap". My opinion is
that they are creatures who have been/lived here for many moons,
perhaps millions of years and live under the ocean and/or on
Mars (yes at one time they were ET). They protect us. That's
what I believe they were doing when several were shot down over
New Mexico in the summer of 47. But that's just my opinion. If
we really believed that the AA was legitimate, then we all could
have opinions about the nature of the creatures. Wouldn�t that
be fun?

<snip>

 >However, a "film look" can be achieved by simply "deinterlacing"
 >the video image and removing half the fields (usually the even
 >fields). Then, a duplicate of the odd field is used to fill in
 >the gap made by the missing even field. Resolution is
 >sacrificed, however, all "motion artifacts" are removed in the
 >process. The end result is identical to that of film shot and
 >transferred at 30 frames per second, but with slightly less
 >resolution. (like that would matter in AA!).

 >f this sounds complicated and expensive, it's not. Videonics
 >makes a device called the MX-1 that does this conversion in real
 >time. The unit only costs about $850.00 new. Post houses have
 >offered similar processes for years; long before AA.

 >You might be interested to know this process is used extensively
 >in the music video industry on a daily basis.


will concede that the footage could have been hoaxed, maybe just
the way you have explained so clearly, but I don�t think you've
made a convincing case for this. What is missing is any hard
evidence. (someone seeing Ray actually using one of the machines
or expressing an interest in the technology). Remember this all
surfaced in 1992, (first rumors went out). Would it have been
possible then? Who created the special effects? How was the
debris manufactured? When did Ray put it all together. You have
no story, no plot line to reinforce your idea that this is all a
music type video, and not a single witness. I think you need
more evidence than you presently have to make a convincing "case
closed" statement, or imply that you are even close to
understanding even your own "evidence".

All I'm asking is that folks keep an open mind about the AA so
when new evidence surfaces, it's not ignored because of an
illusion that somehow, somewhere the AA has been dealt a mortal
blow and is dead and buried under massive amounts of factual,
hard, conclusive evidence.

 >For the record, after all this time and all the posts, you still
 >have not addressed a single issue presented regarding AA. No
 >matter what anyone presents, you simply say you don't believe it
 >or that it's hearsay or that you don't understand how it could
 >be. Your obsession over AA and your overzealous defense of Ray,
 >n my opinion, borders on the religious. I grow tired of
 >explaining the obvious.

What haven't I tried to answer?

Hazard suits... yes they may have worn them the wrong way but is
it conceivable that there is another explanation for this other
than a historical/factual error that proves the AA a fraud ? You
have not cited your source for this information.

You state the AA could be a video; I concede but feel that you
should offer some proof for this other than "Ray is in the music
business".

I concede the AA could be a copy but so what. You again have no
proof that this makes a difference and you have no proof (other
than circumstancial) that it is a copy. If it a copy, its an old
copy.  Bob Shell saw old film with the autopsy room image. You
never account for the debris or who created the special effects.
Again no witnesses or one scrap of proof except for your
assertions that it could have happened that way. You imply that
Ray is dishonest but again no proof.

Your story line runs something like this. Ray is a bad man who
hoaxed this film somehow, some where, with a cast of real
people. You can't find any of them but you KNOW they are out
there, somewhere.

I say the surgeons are doctors, you say they are not. So we
disagree. Again you have no proof ( a mistake that one of them
made) My only proof is that I didn't observe any mistakes, and
they sure acted like doctors, from my own experience.

I will state that there are no special effects persons that I
know of who have tried to duplicate the intricate nature of the
dissected creature. If I left the impression that some have
tried and failed, I�m sorry. That was not my intention. I do not
believe that the re-creation of this creature by special effects
( effects that can be manipulated as they are in this footage)
is possible now or was it possible in 1947 or in 1992.

You have absolutely no evidence that it is possible to even
create one little bit of the creature or the debris. Is there
some other point that you wanted to discuss?

I�ve tried to answer Theresa's objections to the footage. I
contacted her and tried to discuss her research but she wouldn�t
respond. I appreciate the work she put into it but I don�t think
it proves anything conclusive.

I will agree that there are still many open questions.

 > I have nothing else to say to you on this topic.

We need to get beyond this point, somehow. I'll concede that
Ray�s reluctance to have the film independently verified and
tested is a serious problem. But it doesn't mean that the
footage is a fraud. I maintain that Ray must have his reasons
(since there is no evidence that he is dishonest or has ever
done anything dishonest or that he would take a chance on such a
hot issue as the AA. Fraud is a jail sentence in the UK; if
this is such an obvious fraud, why hasn't he been charged). I
can see how folks might see his refusal to cooperate as an
admission of guilt.

I do not think enough evidence has been presented to write off
what may be a very important artifact. We have other options.
Why not spend some time discussing the nature of the debris.
This hasn't been done to my knowledge and might provide the
answers and assurances we need to take another look at the AA.







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   Jan > Jan 27

                               Re: T.T.Brown?

From: Patrick Bailey <pgb@padrak.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:44:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:09:51 -0500
Subject: Re: T.T.Brown?


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:47:36 -0500
 >From: Werner Walter <113236.1604@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: T.T.Brown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone know URLs about the work of T.T.Brown who was
 >a founding-member of the old NICAP?



 >Does anyone know URLs on which I can find material
 >about T.T.Brown�s work. (Brown was one of the
 >NICAP-founders but I search material about his
 >work in physics!)

 >Greetings

 >Werner Walter, CENAP, Germany

 >http://www.alien.de/cenap


http://www.padrak.com/ufo/WEBSITES.html

http://www.padrak.com/ine/SUBJECTS.html

PB.







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                  60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:23:09 -0500
Subject: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


Hello Errol!

I found this post quite interesting, and thought you might too.


I hope all is well!

Kelly McGillis


-----

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:07:56 +1300
From: earthman <hardjube@IHUG.CO.NZ>
Subject: [CTRL] 60% of Abductees are GAY
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


-Caveat Lector-   http://www.ctrl.org/ -Cui Bono?-

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Farrell <vidhunter@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:02 AM
Subject: 60% of Abductees are GAY!(not that there's anything wrong with
that:->)


The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia -
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new

_______________________________________________

Greetings Abduction
Researchers and Therapists,

"It has also been noted by a number of researchers that gay men
and women are overwhelmingly represented in the abduction
population.  One estimate suggests that as many as 60 percent of
those claiming abduction are also gay." (pg.292-The Abduction
Enigma)

Did that arouse your curiosity?  Then read what follows!

______________________

"The Abduction Enigma" The Truth behind the mass alien
abductions of the late 20th century. by Kevin D.  Randle, Russ
Estes, and William P.  Cone, PHD.

"This is an important book that everyone concerned with the
alien abduction phenomenon should read.  This book deserves a
careful reading by all who are concerned with abduction research
and the victims involved ~ especially those who are willing to
re-examine some of their basic assumptions and put them to the
test.  The skeptical case against the physical reality of alien
abduction has never been made more brilliantly or powerfully."
(by Michael Miley from UFO MAG-USA-Dec'99)

I have to agree with the above recommendation.  I actually found
this book at our modest public library, so look for it at your
library first.  This is the kind of book that "cries out" for
someone more qualified and more knowledgeable than me to review
and respond to it.  I can only say that after collecting and
reading just about every book, magazine, article and video from
just about every "alien abduction" researcher, therapist,
abductee and/or experiencer, this new skeptical book challenges
just about everything I thought I knew about the alien abduction
phenomena.

Here are a few random quotes that jumped out at me from this new
book: (my comments & questions follow in parenthesis)


1) "Most abduction researchers routinely withhold specific
information from the public as a way of cross-checking the
validity of an abduction story. These 'secret clues', when
mentioned by someone claiming abduction, provide some validation
for the new tale." (pg.59)

(for example, I've heard that the "grays" as described by
Whitley Strieber and featured on the cover of his infamous book,
"Communion" are not exactly what they appear to be.  I've heard
that those "grays" were not bald, but had fine wispy white hair.
So the popular image of the "big-bald-headed" alien is not true
but has come to be accepted worldwide.  It makes you wonder how
much information published on abductions is either incorrect or
misleading from the researchers we have come to rely on. So how
can we in the public domain ever hope to know what's really
going on if every researcher and witness is hiding "secret
clues"?)


2) "The sexual component of the abductions has been reduced to
reproductive experimentation or genetic research, but when
examined carefully, it is little more than sexual intercourse.
This is an important aspect that has been generally ignored by
those conducting abduction research.  A very high percentage of
both male and female abductees that we interviewed openly stated
a sexual preference of homosexuality or bisexuality.  An equally
high number were hypersexual and highly promiscuous in their
human sex lives.  Of the remaining abductees at least half of
them claimed they had no sex drive whatsoever.  That leaves us
with a very low number of abductees who claim to have what would
be considered a 'normal' sex life.  Beyond that, however, as
many as 90 percent of the abductees have some kind of sexual
dysfunction. Their tales of rape and sexual activity on board
the UFO are evidences of these sexual problems." (pg.97-100)

(The sex issue raises it's ugly head here, but take for example
the case of Jesse Long, as profiled on my "ALIEN UPDATE-DEC'99
videotape, featuring clips from "Confirmation" and the "Roseanne
Files".  This lifelong abductee has been forced to give up his
"precious fluids" to aliens during hundreds of encounters. And
he is also "gay" (not that there's anything wrong with that!:->)
Yet nowhere in the abduction literature or from the accounts of
"gay abductees" like Jesse Long do we find any descriptions of
"gay sexual activity or fantasies" taking place during these
alien encounters.  So after all these years and literally
millions of abductions, and subsequent invasive examinations and
mindscans, these single-minded aliens have seemingly failed to
grasp that humans have different sexual orientations. Why don't
these aliens use "gay" imagery and activity to excite and
extract bodily "precious fluids" and emotional bonding from
"gay" abductees? I guess there's no such thing as a "gay alien"
or we would have heard something about that by now!  So it would
appear that Mars really does need women!:->))



3) "There are those who remember their abduction without the aid
of hypnosis, but many of those 'conscious' memories first
surfaced in dreams. These witnesses are later convinced that the
dreams are real and not fantasy." (pg.142)

(This has always been a big bone of contention.  Could we ever
get accurate figures on how many abductees remembered their
"encounter" without hypnosis, how many with hypnosis only, how
many were actually conscious during the whole or parts of it,
and how many remembered only after reporting their dreams?
According to these skeptics, no abductee can establish the
reality of a genuine alien abduction without the aid of an
well-intentioned but misinformed abduction hypno-therapist, and
the reinforcement of the popular media and culture.  They also
say that there's "something" in the human mind that creates
these kinds of tales on a regular basis, as shown by traditional
folklore, satanic ritual abuse, multiple personalities, and now
with "alien abductions" and spacecraft. Are we unknowingly
helping to create the very phenomenon that we are trying to
understand?)


4) "Not one study has ever shown the existence of screen
memories, or that the mind can produce them.  There is no
evidence that people use sexual abuse as a screen memory to
protect themselves from the trauma of being abducted.  The only
evidence eof this has come from 'abduction researchers'
repeatedly using hypnosis.  A well-trained therapist knows that
traumatic memories are not repressed, and that screen memories
do not exist, according to current psychological thought.  What
is not addressed here is that if, in fact, aliens can instill
memories, how can one be sure that the entire abduction event
doesn't consist of these sorts of memories?  Maybe people aren't
actually undergoing any of the procedures they recall. The whole
experience could be instilled, and not necessarily by alien
abductors." (pg.216-7)

(Obviously, there is a considerable gap between popular and
professional opinions on critical subjects like recovered and
false memory, the value and misuse of hypnosis, and the
psychology of sleep disorders and sexual dysfunction.  How can
we pop the balloons of misconception and get at the truth of how
the human mind really works during these life-altering
"encounters" with the unknown?)



5) "According to the experts and scientific evidence, there is
no difference between a real memory and an induced memory. The
scientific data and findings bear this out in study after study.
In fact, even the psychologists who do the research have been
surprised by the results because facts we thought to be true
about memory turn out to be myths.  These myths provide what
most of us believe about memory.  We have been told by various
'authorities', that memory is the storehouse of everything we
have ever seen, felt, experienced, or done.  We are told that
memory is like a giant videotape on which everything we have
ever see, done, or participated in is recorded with the accuracy
of videotape. And while that point has been strongly contested
by psychologists and scientific evidence, we learn that the real
purpose of memory is not to store data (that's a computer's
job), but to allow us to function on a day-to-day basis.  Memory
is not meant to be an accurate record of our past or even a
storehouse of our experience but rather an inner representation
of who we are and how we feel.  More important, it does not have
to be very accurate to carry out these everyday functions.  Most
people do not realize just how bad their memory really is." (pg
286-7)


(It would seem to me that our understanding of human "memory" is
a crucial aspect to the research and validation of alien
abductions. So how can we get an accurate consensus on how
memory really works? This also reminds me of a spoken sample
from the Monkees movie soundtrack album: "The central nervous
system, which feeds its impulses directly to the brain, both
conscious and subconscious, cannot distinquish between the real
experience and the vividly imagined experience.")



6) "The desire to be an abductee or the victim of abuse is not a
conscious choice.  It's actually the combination of a weak sense
of self and desperate need to fit in somewhere.  Many abductees
wear their experience like a badge of honor.  It is the
strongest sense of identity they have ever had.  And contrary to
the opinion of most researchers, it is, in fact, a club that
people will fight to belong to." (pg.291)

(In addition to all the books, magazine articles, and videos, we
now see websites from just about every researcher and abductee
in every country. Contamination of witness accounts is at an
all-time high.  It's like trying to see the stars on a cloudy
night.)


7) "Support group members are no longer people with problems;
instead they are "abductees", multiples, survivors of incest,
and codependents.  Instead of people moving towards resolving
their problems, they now learn to incorporate them into the very
core of their identity.  The recovery support groups of today
are based on the premises.  (1) All psychopathology is caused by
abuse. (2) Most abused memories are repressed.  (3) The path to
healing is to remember the abuse, and often to attack the
abusers.  (4) The person is forever to be labeled as
"recovering".  (5) Recovering people need group support in order
to function in society. And instead of being a short span of
time in which a person recovers from a negative experience,
recovery has now been redefined as a never-ending, lifelong
process." (pg.308)

(So a good question for researchers and abductees would be; how
long should one remain in therapy or a support group to overcome
the negative effects of an alien abduction and yet avoid
allowing the experience to define one's life and identity?


8) "Keith Basterfield, in the International UFO Reporter, wrote
'Given that alien implants are said to have been introduced into
us, for what purpose are they placed there?  A fairly
consistent, small range of options exists.' He expands on the
idea of a tracking device, writing that others have speculated
that the devices might not only be for tracking but for
monitoring, communications, or even control." (pg.318)

(This was the only reference I found to an Australian Abduction
researcher.)


9) "But how many alien beings, how many ships, and how much
equipment is necessary to abduct so many people?  A group of
American researchers, looking only at the numbers for American
abductions, postulated a fleet of 75 ships, each with a crew of
16.  It defies logic, but the researchers are still crunching
the numbers to prove that alien abduction is not only real but
common." (pg.344)

(It appears that the authors of this book have not seen the
formidable report by Australia's own abduction researchers such
as Robert Marx, Rocco Delillo, and Mathew Favloro, who also made
an admirable attempt to estimate the logistics of abduction in
their 1988 release of "UFOs~ The Conveyor Belt ~ The Real Size
of the Problem." Look it up on the Australian Encounters
website: http://www.flex.com.au/~eagle1/ or go to direct link:
http://www.flex.com.au/~eagle1/conb.htm


10) "The whole concept, in the vast majority of abduction cases,
was the belief of the researcher.  If we look at the history of
psychology we see no case in which someone undergoing hypnosis
for something else such as to lose weight or stop smoking
spontaneously came up with an abduction story.  In other words,
as demonstrated time and time again, if the researcher believed
in something other than alien abduction, then the subject
manifested those symptoms. The abductee sought out someone doing
abduction research, so it should be no surprise that the
researcher found the tale of alien abduction. The theory of
researcher manipulation, though subtle and sometimes
unconscious, explains how and why some people believe they have
been abducted by aliens. For too long, we have been persuaded by
'authorities' who tell us that alien abduction is real.  They
present case after case, demanding that we prove that the
abduction isn't real. But that isn't the way science is supposed
to work. The researchers who claim the abnormality are required
to prove that it exists.  They have failed to do so." (pg.362-3)

(This is how the book concludes.  The largest share of it's
skeptical arguments are against the "abduction researcher and
therapist". In fact, about a third of the book is aimed directly
at the abduction researcher and the role they may play in
manufacturing the "alien abduction scenario".  I for one, would
sure like to see some rational responses and healthy debate from
researchers and abductees to the detailed and well presented
skeptical arguments in this book. At the very least, reading
this thought-provoking book should "rustle some feathers" out
there! Give it a fair go!  You might even learn something new!)

___________________________

THINK GLOBALLY~ACT LOCALLY

Mike Farrell PO Box 2526 Port Macquarie New South Wales
Australia 2444

Director of Project GUFONE 2000 (Global UFO News/video Exchange)
http://www.fan.net.au/~tkbnetw/new/mikes.htm
http://www.flex.com.au/~eagle1/in8.htm


We are about to go on a Journey. All Aboard
http://sites.netscape.net/gsussnzl/poleshift

http://www.ctrl.org/

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========

CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list.
Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance�not
soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy
theory'�with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds�is used politically by different groups with major and
minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the
validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of
what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

================================================================

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Om






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 27

                       Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...

From: Marty <bubastis@warplink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:01:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:28:57 -0500
Subject: Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:05:14 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: From The Sceptic's Tank...
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >List,

 >There is a hilarious short film on the IFILM.com website titled
 >"HERD".  It's about a guy, a gray alien and the fun that they
 >have together.

 >http://www.ifilm.com/films.taf?film_id=72837

 >Also, thanks to Phil K., Joe N., Robert B. and stealth blimps
 >over Illinois for giving me reason to laugh again.

 >Seriously, I commend the police officers who were brave enough
 >to step forward and speak about what they witnessed on January
 >5th over southern Illinois.

 >The recent CSICOP press interviews/press releases appear to me
 >to be demeaning toward the innocent witnesses of unusual and
 >anomolous phenomenon in our skies.  CSICOP seems at times to do
 >nothing more than to cause confusion in the public's mind
 >concerning UFOs.  A quick look at their website tells me that
 >they do nothing more than to 'whip the dead horses' of
 >astrology, superstitions, urban legends, etc. and to vye for
 >media exposure with the likes of Steve Allen. I didn't see any
 >in-depth essays or investigative articles dealing with the UFO
 >problem.  I do know, thanks to CSICOP, which psychic predictions
 >failed to come true in 1999.   For that, I do have to thank
 >them.

Howdy Jeff!

I have two words to describe CSICOP and its membership. The
first word starts with an "A" and the second with an "H", though
often these two words are combined to make one!

Of all the times I've seen these clowns on television,
especially Joe Nickell, not once, NOT ONCE, has the man's
credentials been given. This guy could be a bloody Junior High
dropout for all we know. The fact that the other high-profile
spokesman for the group, up until recently, was a professional
magician who seemed to take the view that anything he could
duplicate via a "magic trick" was automatically a hoax, really
adds a lot of credibility to this group in my book. They
certainly have one big talent, and that is getting media
attention whenever something paranormal comes down the pipe. I'd
like to see some investigative reporting done on this
organization for a change. What exactly are their credentials
for being "experts" on anything outside of being able to blow
their own horn and making the ignorant listen?

Take care,

Marty







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 27

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:43:50 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:32:10 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:02:27 +0000
 >From: Thomas E Morris <Temorris@pacbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >My impression of the alien appearance is that it is not real.
 >Maybe some kind of suit or mask to allow them free travel in our
 >environment. Maybe something else, but I never felt that it was
 >flesh & bone. The eyes are a part of this wardrobe.

 >If anyone has comments or other similar ideas, I'd very much
 >like to hear them.

I think you're on the right track, personally.  The "abduction"
phenomenon has been with us in various forms and psychosocial
guises for a very long time.  (The "trickster" archetype, if you
will.)

Bodies of apparent aliens have been described by witnesses to be
mechanical and engage in unlifelike behavior like walking in
lockstep.

I think the modern "alien head" image is simply the latest
illusion perpetrated by a very real nonhuman consciousness. To
interpret "aliens" in a purely biological framework is, in my
opinion, to completely ignore the UFO phenomenon and its
manifestations.

Mac Tonnies







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 27

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:51:53 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:36:09 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:22 -0500
 >From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Brian wrote:

 >>I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
 >>it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
 >>appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
 >>like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
 >>"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
 >>lenses.

 >Hi Brian, hi All,

 >Mr. C I have a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" type
 >question for you. Do you know if any of these 'eye covering'
 >accounts precede the Alien Autopsy film? It would be interesting
 >to know if there was an increase in reports which include the
 >'sunglasses' detail -after- the film was released.

Hi John, Brian...

Strieber comments specifically on the possibility of eye
membranes in 'Communion', published in 1987. The AA film didn't
start this.

Mac






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   Jan > Jan 27

                       Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...

From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:01:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:53:45 -0500
Subject: Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:05:14 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: From The Sceptic's Tank...
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >List,

 >There is a hilarious short film on the IFILM.com website titled
 >"HERD".  It's about a guy, a gray alien and the fun that they
 >have together.

 >http://www.ifilm.com/films.taf?film_id=72837

 >Also, thanks to Phil K., Joe N., Robert B. and stealth blimps
 >over Illinois for giving me reason to laugh again.

 >Seriously, I commend the police officers who were brave enough
 >to step forward and speak about what they witnessed on January
 >5th over southern Illinois.

 >The recent CSICOP press interviews/press releases appear to me
 >to be demeaning toward the innocent witnesses of unusual and
 >anomolous phenomenon in our skies.  CSICOP seems at times to do
 >nothing more than to cause confusion in the public's mind
 >concerning UFOs.  A quick look at their website tells me that
 >they do nothing more than to 'whip the dead horses' of
 >astrology, superstitions, urban legends, etc. and to vye for
 >media exposure with the likes of Steve Allen. I didn't see any
 >in-depth essays or investigative articles dealing with the UFO
 >problem.  I do know, thanks to CSICOP, which psychic predictions
 >failed to come true in 1999.   For that, I do have to thank
 >them.

Howdy Jeff!

I have two words to describe CSICOP and its membership. The
first word starts with an "A" and the second with an "H", though
often these two words are combined to make one!

Of all the times I've seen these clowns on television,
especially Joe Nickell, not once, NOT ONCE, has the man's
credentials been given. This guy could be a bloody Junior High
dropout for all we know. The fact that the other high-profile
spokesman for the group, up until recently, was a professional
magician who seemed to take the view that anything he could
duplicate via a "magic trick" was automatically a hoax, really
adds a lot of credibility to this group in my book. They
certainly have one big talent, and that is getting media
attention whenever something paranormal comes down the pipe. I'd
like to see some investigative reporting done on this
organization for a change. What exactly are their credentials
for being "experts" on anything outside of being able to blow
their own horn and making the ignorant listen?

Take care,

Marty





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 27

                       Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:59:14 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:55:53 -0500
Subject: Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:05:14 -0800 (PST)
 >From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: From The Sceptic's Tank...
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >The recent CSICOP press interviews/press releases appear to me
 >to be demeaning toward the innocent witnesses of unusual and
 >anomolous phenomenon in our skies.  CSICOP seems at times to do
 >nothing more than to cause confusion in the public's mind
 >concerning UFOs.  A quick look at their website tells me that
 >they do nothing more than to 'whip the dead horses' of
 >astrology, superstitions, urban legends, etc. and to vye for
 >media exposure with the likes of Steve Allen. I didn't see any
 >in-depth essays or investigative articles dealing with the UFO
 >problem.  I do know, thanks to CSICOP, which psychic predictions
 >failed to come true in 1999.   For that, I do have to thank
 >them.

You are so right about CSICOP's publications.  Reading the
"Skeptical Inquirer," I'm continually struck with the image of a
bunch of know-nothings trying to outdo one another with armchair
'explanations'.  This would all be quite harmless if the media
didn't buy it.  Every "objective" TV program dealing with UFOs
feels obligated to trot out one of these guys as some sort of
recognized expert.  Expert on what, exactly?

And in the meantime, the fictional schism between "believer" and
"skeptic" widens, making future inquiry more and more difficult.
Skeptic is NOT synonymous with debunker.

Mac Tonnies






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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:07:45 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:01:28 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:40:27 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>(One of Whitley Strieber's remarks in 'Communion' is that the
 >>archetypal alien head on the cover isn't as big as what he
 >>observed. And since I seem to have been under attack lately, let
 >>me stress that this isn't a whole-hearted endorsement for
 >>Strieber...or any other "abductee.")

 >I am glad you picked up on that, the creature depicted on the
 >the cover of 'Communion' was a cartoon character.

The picture on 'Communion' was an attempt by a competent artist,
Ted Jacobs, to draw an image from waking memory.  As such it has
the look of a "police sketch."  It's clearly an impressionistic
portrait.

 >>>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>>interest.

 >>"Impossible creatures"?  Not really.  Possibly just _weird_
 >>creatures.  They're supposed to be aliens, right?

 >I was kind of hoping that no-one would give me that "they're
 >aliens so anything goes" jive.

I _wasn't_ giving you the "they're aliens so anything goes"
jive.

I inferred that

a.) these "aliens" might not even be alive in the recognized
     sense

b.) options to spherical eyeballs aren't out of the question by
     any means.  There are examples of alternatives here on Earth.

Mac Tonnies








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Cinde Costello <LOOKIN4ET@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:33:28 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:10:51 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:02:27 +0000
 >From: Thomas E Morris <Temorris@pacbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >>(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >>thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >>features.

 ><snip>

 >>at size would not only be too big
 >>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

 >My impression of the alien appearance is that it is not real.
 >Maybe some kind of suit or mask to allow them free travel in our
 >environment. Maybe something else, but I never felt that it was
 >flesh & bone. The eyes are a part of this wardrobe.

 >If anyone has comments or other similar ideas, I'd very much
 >like to hear them.


Hi Dave,

I can understand your dilemma in trying to get those eyes just
right.  I'm a lifelong experiencer of this stuff and while I
only had an occasional visit by the "greys", I was afforded a
very close look.

I can't speak for everyone who has seen them but my own
observations showed me that they look incredibly odd.  They are
more flat than round, almost too big, they have no pupils that I
saw and no facial features to speak of.  I would swear they wear
some kind of one-piece suit that encompasses the head due to
their lack of wrinkles, expressions, facial (or even fine body)
hair, etc.

And another oddity, while I have felt both compassion and anger
from them there was nothing in their eyes or facial expressions
to indicate that they were actually expressing anything.  Their
faces were without any expression at all.

In other words, what I felt from them, I was actually sensing it
rather than seeing it on their face or in their eyes.

I know other experiencers have reported seeing the "greys" in
coveralls, etc., but in my own experiences with them, they were
wearing nothing except the grayish colored "suit" that covered
both their hands and feet (no outer shoes).  It was very
form-fitting and seemed to be some sort of spandex-type
material, more dull than shiny.

I never noticed any type of zipper though... if it is a suit, I
wonder how they get in and out of it?

Good Luck!

Cinde Costello








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:07:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:15:13 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:22 -0500
 >From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
 >>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >><<snip>

 >>>Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
 >>>eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
 >>>within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
 >>>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >><snip>

 >>>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>>interest.

 >Brian wrote:

 >>I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
 >>it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
 >>appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
 >>like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
 >>"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
 >>lenses.

 >>So I've read anyway.

 >>For what its worth ...


 >Hi Brian, hi All,

 >Mr. C I have a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" type
 >question for you. Do you know if any of these 'eye covering'
 >accounts precede the Alien Autopsy film? It would be interesting
 >to know if there was an increase in reports which include the
 >'sunglasses' detail -after- the film was released.

 >Just curious.


I recall reading some time ago, about a woman who was abducted
repeatedly. In her attempts to gain some semblance of control
over her situation she made a plan to take a poke at one of
these rascals (typical greys) on their next visit. She employed
the skills of a hypnotherapist to reinforce her efforts. I
believe this person was also her abduction-therapist but I can't
accurately recall... (please don't make me look it up... :) )

According to the account I read, when the ooportunity presented
itself, she reached up from her bed and grabbed one of these
guys right in the eye. A thin lens-like cover was reported to
have come off in her hand, exposing what was described as a
series of luminous lines or a grid pattern with apparently
random dots of red light flashing where the lines intersected.

The grey was none too pleased with having his inner workings
exposed, needless to say!

This report predates the alien autopsy film by a few years and
was the first time I had ever heard of a reference to "eye
covers". I obviously can't vouch for the accuracy or validity of
the report as I can't even recall the source at the moment.

My own personal thoughts on the matter lean toward the mask
theory or manufactured organism of some kind.

Dave's original point about the eyeballs is a good one and it
has bugged me for years. I can't see an organism being so
similiar to us; two arms, two legs, a head, etc. and at the same
time having eyeballs that are flat or perhaps compound like a
fly and covered with shades. I suppose someone who is handy with
gene-splicing could have any type of eye they prefer but it's
unlikely to be a natural affectation.

Evolution, as I understand it, does not generally tend to force
things into spaces where they do not fit, like two, six-inch
diameter eyeballs in a head that's only a foot across. Of
course, they may have tiny little brains crammed way in the
back. This would make them quite stupid individually. I like
this idea... might explain a few things... :)








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:17:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 04:25:57 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:22 -0500
 >From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
 >>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >><<snip>

 >>>Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
 >>>eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
 >>>within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
 >>>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >><snip>

 >>>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>>interest.

 >Brian wrote:

 >>I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
 >>it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
 >>appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
 >>like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
 >>"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
 >>lenses.

 >>So I've read anyway.

 >>For what its worth ...

 >Hi Brian, hi All,

 >Mr. C I have a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" type
 >question for you. Do you know if any of these 'eye covering'
 >accounts precede the Alien Autopsy film? It would be interesting
 >to know if there was an increase in reports which include the
 >'sunglasses' detail -after- the film was released.

The references from witnesses that the large eye area is a
covering, for me anyway, come from reports I have read that
predate the AA by a few too many years.

Its an old concept that has been suggested by many, but far from
all the witnesses.

Often it is when they have been 'stared into' that they suspect
there is something artificial about the eyes.

Admittedly it was usually said to try and account for the
experience they had when stared at by one of the, usually
taller, beings.  And as I recall some said it was just a feeling
they got.

Hardly evidence that it is in fact built in sunglasses, but
while not always accurate, human 'sensing' is often right!


Lesley







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                    CPR-Canada News: eYada.com Interview

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:16:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:04:55 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News: eYada.com Interview


CPR-CANADA NEWS
The E-News Service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

January 26, 2000

CPR-Canada News: eYada.com Interview, "Snow Circle" in
Washington State

_____________________________



MEDIA
CPR-Canada Interviews, Programs, Articles and News Releases

eYada.com Internet Interview - January 28, 2000

Interview with CPR-Canada director Paul Anderson on the 1999
Canadian crop circles.

eYada.com (New York)
http://www.eyada.com
'The Morning Show with Lionel'
Friday, January 28, 2000
Live, 10:00 am ET

Either RealPlayer (http://www.real.com) or Windows Media Player
(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/en/download/) is
required to listen to the audio stream.


"SNOW CIRCLE" IN WASHINGTON STATE

UFO Leaves "Snow Circle" in Washington State
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/UFORCE/page20.html
(Not a crop circle, but an interesting report all the same...)

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the electronic news service of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon
Research International), providing periodic updates with the
latest news and reports, as well as information on CPR-Canada
-related news and events. CPR-Canada News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by CPR-Canada, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International

Main Office

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4  Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522

_____________________________


� Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 2000










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                             Re: Dr John Lundy?

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:42:25 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:12:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Dr John Lundy?


Dear colleagues,

Could anyone help me locate the report on the alien autopsy film
by Dr John Lundy? I had it and many other such reports but a
computer crash has lost a lot of information.

Many thanks,

Philip.







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:22:58 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:16:33 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip



 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:20:29 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hi Steve,

This response is primarily aimed at your mail but I'd'like to
use it to highlight a few point which could be relavant.

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:26:11 -0800
 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>I don't get it; can't you read. How many times do I have to post
 >>this. Is Bob lying here or what? I have now physically
 >>examined a section of the film, a section showing the "autopsy"
 >>room before the body was placed on the table, but clearly
 >>consistent with the later footage. The film on which this was
 >>shot is Cine Kodak Super XX, a film type which was discontinued
 >>in 1956-57. Since the edge code could be 1927, 1947 or 1967, and
 >>this film was not manufactured in 1927 or 1967, this clearly
 >>leaves us with only 1947 as an option.""

 >Ed-

 >You appear to have such a good memory for this matter and yet
 >you ignore the information that doesn't fit the argument you
 >want to support.  Bob made this statement based on information
 >that he had been given by Ray, and has since developed doubts
 >about many facets of that.  You might want to contact him.  He
 >believed that the film was Cine Kodak Super XX because he was
 >shown film boxes that the film allegedly came in, which was his
 >sole means of identification.

 >Since that statement, which you have posted several times (which
 >I have also referenced in earlier posts), Bob has indicated that
 >he is no longer 95% sure of anything in relation to the "film".
 >So why are we still clinging to that piece of evidence?  He
 >wasn't "lying", but was drawing a conclusion based on
 >information that he had at hand, and since then he has changed
 >his opinion.

 >No, this doesn't mean that he now dismisses the AA "film" as a
 >hoax, but let's try to keep the discussion on an even keel if we
 >can.

True Bob has backtracked a little from his original quoted
statement but as I read it he is still convinced the film is a
genuin historical document. His last posting at the end of 1999
to this group [ search for bob@bobshell.com on the UPDATES
archive to find it] confirms this stance.

 >When the fact that the sample pieces of film are actually dupes
 >is brought up you respond:

 >>Why don't you tell me why you find this so significant. If it
 >>is copied, then it was copied in 1947 or thereabouts and since
 >>all agree that there simply wasn't the technology to hoax the AA
 >>at that time, then it must be legitimate. Isn't that what TDC
 >>stated clearly on their web site. As I have said and will say
 >>again, the nature of the film ie copied, not copied, original
 >>duped and so forth is very confusing to most folks, not just me.
 >>And you all continue to muddy the waters more by the way you
 >>argue your case. If it is a copy, how does that work into the
 >>whole story and why is that so damaging. If Ray was fooled into
 >>buying a copy, so what? Did the cameraman hoax Ray? How did he
 >>put this all together? Just give me some scenario that accounts
 >>for how this all came down, some place where we can start to
 >>unravel this mystery.

 >The importance is that Ray's initial statements indicated that
 >this was original film, and the fact that the pieces that he has
 >forwarded to validate the AA "film" were obvious dupes.  Perhaps
 >more significantly, the initial investigation by Saino indicated
 >that the copier used to make the duplication was not available
 >until the mid 50's, which puts a real crimp in the Cameraman's
 >story.  Bob has indicated that he believes and earlier copier
 >would leave the same markings, but admitted that Saino's
 >research was both valid and important in our effort to seek the
 >truth.  Bob now has two snippets of film supplied by Ray, and
 >has no reason to believe that either have any relation to the AA
 >"film" (except that they all come from Ray).

The "camera original" film would have been NEGATIVE stock, ALL
the projection stock would have been duped from neg at the time,
unless the cameraman was into reversal processing which I doubt
for copying reasons, my point being, by "original" I suggest he
was technically including the 1st Generation Positive prints,
after all in July 1995 this was his list of films received from
the cameraman:

20 reels POSITIVE SAFTY PRINT.
1  reel scrap
1  reel NEG

Out of his 22 reels only the 1 reel of NEG may have been "camera
original".

A further reason for Ray's reluctance to provide film for
authentication may also be traced down to around that date, in
Oct 1995 on the French TF1 channel show about the AA film, Ray's
financial backer Volker Speilberg was tracked down and "briefly"
spoken to, it couldn't be termed interviewed. At THAT time he
claimed _he_ now had all the film safely under lock and key.

What Ray hasn't got, he cannot supply for testing.

 >>>How do you account for the lack of repeated frames that would be
 >>>present if the film were transferred to video? (see Michael
 >>>Lennick's excellent post on the subject)

 >>I'm the first to admit that I am not a technical person; I'm a
 >>historian, but are you saying here that there was not any film
 >>at all and there was just a video made and then made to look
 >>like it was shot in 16mm. (like the tent footage) Why don't you
 >>show us how that might be done; just a few seconds if its so
 >>easy. Did you bother to read the discussion of the debris?

 >>Explain it away.

 >If you aren't prepared to hold a "technical" discussion, then
 >how are you going to discuss specifics?  I'm certainly not that
 >technical either, but I have at least paid attention when others
 >have posted their arguments and try to understand them.  Several
 >researchers have taken the "film" apart piece by piece and
 >anaylyzed it to the ground, and you could probably find an
 >argument to support the fact that it's a film transfer if you
 >tried hard enough.  But to what end?

<snip>

Again, back in 1995 Bob Shell asked MIT to evaluate
the video transfer of the AA film, they concluded it was 16mm
film shot at 24fps transfered to European(uk) PAL standards
25fps(50frames/sec/interlaced)and then transfered to the
US NTSC 30fps (30frames/sec/interlaced) standard.

Neil.

-------------------------------------------------------
                      Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Web Sites:        Roswell and Alien Autopsy
                   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
         The Fort Worth Photographs of James Bond Johnson
                http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/
-------------------------------------------------------







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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:06:55 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:19:19 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:51:21 +0000
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca> >>

 >Dave, you might not know but in the Travis Walton abduction
 >case, he described the eyes as part of a suit, the "grey suit"
 >as a "coverall" affair. Which would make the big black eyes
 >kinda like sunshades. I mean could you _create_ a human's pair
 >of eyes if you saw a man/woman wearing Raybans?>>

Hi,

The image was depicted in the film "Fire in the Sky" as being a
suit with the black eyes. I don't recall Walton saying anything
in his book that he thought the aliens had on suits with the
huge eyes. I may be wrong, but that's what I remember.

Any comments on this?

Chris Kelly








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:21:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:08:52 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:26 -0600
 >>to: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Gee, Ed. Make up your mind. On the one hand you maintain that
 >>I'm dead wrong because the containment suit issue is nothing but
 >>"hearsay"; on the other hand, you go to great lengths to try and
 >>justify the improper usage that you just said didn't exist!

 >I don't know why the doctors were wearing the suits or if they
 >were wearing them in the proper manner. Since its the only
 >historical fact that seems to be out of place, I suggested other
 >reasons that could explain why. The point I was making is that
 >many have said that this or that fact invalidates the AA and
 >have later been proved wrong ie. the coiled phone. I think this
 >is flimsy evidence to base your historical case on. And even if
 >you are right about the hazard suit protocol, it doesn't mean
 >that these doctors followed it, for what ever reasons they had.

 >>More nonsense from Ed. Orderly's are not used the operating room
 >>under any condition. Operating rooms are restricted to vital
 >>personal only. And just how much "dissection" did you see while
 >>working in the ER, Ed?

 >I worked at two hospitals in Albuquerque NM while I was
 >attending school at UNM. I was usually the only male orderly on

<snip>

Hi Ed and Roger,

I'd just like to throw this into the mix regarding the
"contamination" suits worn in the Autopsy sections of Ray's
film. About 2 years ago the BBC over here in the UK screened a
documentary series about the developement of the Atom Bomb, some
of the Uk list members may recall it, Regretfully I didn't
record it, but the program dealing with the A bomb attacks on
Japan had some interesting archive footage of the 509th bomb
group at their Pacific base preparing for and undertaking the
attack. In an all too brief section of this footage a number of
ground crew could be seen wearing identical style suits to those
worn in the Autopsy footage.

A further comment on the discussions about the AA film in
general, A number of people seem to come to conclusions over the
films contents by comparing against todays standards and
attitudes, IF the film is a genuin historical document it is now
half a century old, there have been vast changes in peoples
attitudes, working conventions and practices in those 50 years,
1947 was a _very_ different place from today, ask the few people
we have left who remember it, I have. It's no use judging by
todays standards and saying "it's obvious it would never be done
that way", 50 years ago there might well have been a very good
practical 1947 reason why it WAS done that way.

Just a few thoughts.

Neil.

--
*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *
Neil Morris.       /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\
Dept of Physics.   1                                                 1
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UK.                \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/
G8KOQ


              E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive
and Fort Worth Photographs ->http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
Dave Willetts Home Page->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/
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Tim Morgan Home Page   ->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/

*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *








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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 05:04:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:21:21 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:49 -0500
 >From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
 >Subject: "60% of Abductees Are Gay" - Randle & Estes
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hello Errol!

 >I found this post quite interesting, and thought you might too.

 >I hope all is well!
 >
 >Kelly McGillis


 >-----

 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:07:56 +1300
 >From: earthman <hardjube@IHUG.CO.NZ>
 >Subject: [CTRL] 60% of Abductees are GAY
 >To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 >-Caveat Lector-   http://www.ctrl.org/ -Cui Bono?-

 >----- Original Message -----

 >From: Mike Farrell <vidhunter@hotmail.com>
 >Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:02 AM
 >Subject: 60% of Abductees are GAY!(not that there's anything wrong with
 >that:->)

 >The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia -
 >http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new

 >_______________________________________________

 >Greetings Abduction
 >Researchers and Therapists,

 >"It has also been noted by a number of researchers that gay men
 >and women are overwhelmingly represented in the abduction
 >population.  One estimate suggests that as many as 60 percent of
 >those claiming abduction are also gay." (pg.292-The Abduction
 >Enigma)

Oh Ghod, Kevin and Russ again! The WWF Chinese tag team of
abduction skeptics!  <lol>

Ordinarily I wouldn't even dignify a statement like "60% of _all_
abductees are gay" with a response. It's just simply ridiculous
on the face of it. There is no way they could have polled enough
"abductees" to make a blanket statement like that hold water
under scrutiny.

Do have some questions though.

I am curious what 'survey' of abductees his statistics are based
on. Knowing 'how many' were polled and how it was determined
that they were in fact "abductees" would be even better. It
would be nice to know 'what criteria' Kevin and Russ used to
determine who should or should not be included in their
'survey.' (If they in fact bothered to conduct one.)

Personally that kind of a statistic sounds bogus and purely
biased. Maybe the population of 'gays' is higher in Ohio than I
would have imagined! Maybe they conducted their 'poll' among
'abductees' in San Francisco or the West Village in New York,
who knows! A number like that (60%) unless based on a survey of
a _large_enough_sampling_ of 'abductees' (which according to
Kevin and Russ don't even exist to begin with!) is nothing more
than biased (almost bigoted) hogwash.

Even then, the question of 'what criteria was used to include or
exclude respondents in the sampling' will still be a big
question. One which will _no_ doubt be hotly debated.

One last thing that 'kind of rubbed me the wrong way' is that
the undertone of the remark/comparison (abductees/gays) seems
like it was intended to cast aspersions of some kind.

Mr Randle,

... so freaking what if a large number of abductees are gay?
What does that 'imply' to you? Do you mean that 'gays are
basically deviates and liars' and no wonder there is such a
large number of them among abductees? Just 'what' would a large
number of homosexuals among the abductee population have to do
with the price of butter? 'What' does a statistic like that
'mean' to you? Or, better yet, what meaning do _you_ attach to
it?

60% my fudge factory! Where do you get "nonsense" (to borrow one
of Kevin's favorite descriptive terms) statistics like that?

John Velez, Straight Abductee (Whatever the hell _that_ is
supposed to mean!)

________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________







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                 TMP News: News Briefing - January 27, 2000

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:06:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:23:18 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing - January 27, 2000



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 27, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.27.00



QUANTA
Science and Technology

NASA, Stanford Wait for Mars Polar Lander to Phone Home
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/01/26/mars.lander/index.html

Drudge Report: NASA And Army In Joint Tech Adventures
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/nasaarmy.html

Y2K Global Glitch List Complete
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/01/25/y2k.score.card.ready.idg/index.html

Aqua: New Mac Interface is Cool, Refreshing
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/01/25/mac.osx.idg/index.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/recentufo.html

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:06:01 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:26:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:47:41 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:56:59 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:42:13 -0500
 >>>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>>Subject: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
 >>>Tuesday, January 25, 2000 | 6:22 a.m.

 ><snip>

 >>>"I've often said that if anyone will spend one hour looking in
 >>>the sky on a clear night, he or she will see a UFO," said
 >>>Phillip Klass, founder of the Committee of the Scientific
 >>>Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal, in Washington.

 >>This is so much hogwash:   "...social-psychological phenomenon,"
 >>in which people believe they see a UFO because they are looking
 >>for one....

 >>I have been searching for UFOs for over 45 years and have only
 >>had one sighting... in Sept. 1967.

 >>I spend hours upon hours on the road, in all types of weather,
 >>all times of the day and night, in virtually every type of
 >>geography here in this country.

 >>Back roads at 2 - 3 a.m.  Mountains, day and night, etc., etc.,
 >>etc.

 >>I go to "skywatches" for the specific reason to "see a UFO." I
 >>don't see anything which I can't in all good consciounce
 >>identify as astronomical, aeronautical, or weather related
 >>phenomena.

 >Michael:

 >Have you ever been at one of those skywatches when others
 >thought they saw a UFO but you did not?  To what did you
 >attribute this? Your standards or powers of critical thinking
 >may just be higher than that of many others.

 >Clear skies,

 >Bob Young

C'mon guys, anyone who cannot fathom the reasons these numbnuts
cast the nets they do has gotta not be thinking.

I mean, why would anyone who SHOULD have half an ounce of shmatz
in his brain, as Fill Class should, and who continues to spit
the type of insane, inane, meaningless and culpable iggerents,
is either nuttier then the nuts he claims we believers are or is
in the process of debunking for a living.  No matter the source,
this man is being paid, one way or another, to speak nonesense.

Cannot be another reason for it.  No one can be that stupid,
insensitive, and just plain ornery in one body as Filly Class.

Cheeses, just ignore the man.  He'll eventually
go away.  Hell, we all do, eh?

J. Jaime Gesundt, A Really Class Act







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:30:49 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:29:52 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:42:28 -0400
 >>To: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>It could have been sitting on some shelf in Hollywood or
 >>elsewhere for a long long time. Ray then becomes somebody taking
 >>advantage of public interest and gullibility.

 >Stan,

 >Where is your evidence for this? I have mentioned this to you
 >before...I defend and admire your research but you are doing to
 >Ray exactly what others have done and continue to do to you. You
 >have no proof for your statements. Yes the AA could have been
 >made on the moon but let's stick with what seems probable or
 >plausible. Even if it had been sitting on a shelf somewhere for
 >years, it seems logical that we would be able to account for the
 >manufacturing process that created the debris. How do you
 >explain the debris and its unfamilar characterists? When you
 >read the debris analysis (don't tell me you didn't bother)
 >didn't you see similarities between it and the Roswell debris
 >ie. lack of mass, durability, not flamable? If you can't explain
 >the debris in some intelligent manner, then don't you think its
 >reasonable to take another look at the AA?

Where has any connection been shown between the debris and
Roswell? In my 1979 movie "UFOS ARE Real" (available at 15$ Post
paid, from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958) The artist
created a scene with a rancher holding a large beam similar to
the one in Ray's debris scene. It was wrong. The I beams were
always described by Dr. Marcel as 3/8" or so high. Strange
markings were shown too, made up by the artist. .What possible
basis is there for saying anything about the durability or
flamability?? I haven't seen test results. Is the material
available for test or is this all inference from looking at the
footage? I know of a very good forensic testing lab....

 >>As I pointed out in the entire chapter devoted to AA in my book
 >>TOP SECRET/MAJIC, just about everything Ray told me in our first
 >>conversation turned out to be a lie.

 >Everyone doesn't have access to your wonderful and informative
 >books, so why not list these "lies" for all to read since you've
 >used them many times as your reason for nixing the AA. (You
 >make them sound so ominous).

Everybody does have access to my book. "TOP SECRET/MAJIC ,
autographed, hard cover is also available from UFORI ($15.)as
noted above  $20. from the UK for airmail)

Here are a few lies:

1. Ray stated to me that Harry Truman was clearly visible in the
film.. He is NOT.

2. He stated that he had shown that Truman was in Dallas at the
time of the Autopsy. WRONG

3. He stated in response to a direct question from me that he
had indeed checked with the Truman Library. I checked with the
Truman Library. They know me there. Truman was NOT in Texas or
NM from June 1 on.When I told Ray this in London, he said the
Truman trip to Dallas was done on his way to Ottawa. I checked.
There was a June trip to Ottawa. It was by train, Truman was
seen on the way and in Ottawa. Ottawa is 450 Miles North of DC.
Dallas is 1100 miles W, of DC

4. Ray stated that the military cameraman from whom he purchased
the film was the first to film Elvis. According to a book Elvis
from A to Z, the cameraman first to film Elvis was Jack Barnett
working with a lawyer (Then Disc jockey) named Randle in
Cleveland from whom Ray indeed had purchased his Elvis footage.
Unfortunately Barnett died in about 1967, and was never in the
military, so could not have sold film he never had to anybody in
the 1990s.

5. Ray started out talking about Roswell. When it became clear
that Roswell didn't fit, he suddenly said the crash  was in
early June and near Socorro. But he insisted that the cameraman
was flown to Roswell about 175 miles over a mountain range east
of Socorro. The camermana was supposedly on a military flight
from Wright Field and surely for such a high priority assigment
would have been flown much closer to the crash site... White
Sands Missile Range, Alamogordo Army Air Field, Kirtland... all
much closer and with high security.

 >Also you need to explain to the list that you offered Ray
 >$100,000 for the footage and he turned you down. (I know it was
 >for someone else but you should mention it, none the less) Not
 >that this disqualifies you from the discussion since I agree
 >that money can be the name of the game.

Sorry more distortion as again noted in TSM. I was asked to make
an offer on behalf of somebody very knowledgeable about film and
who had the money. There were two important contingencies. That
we be given access to original film and that we be satisfied it
was genuine. If it was genuine, it would certainly have been
worth 100,000$. Of course Ray's comments about the offer
neglected to mention these little details.

Stan Friedman








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                         How Life May Live On Europa

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:03:56 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:35:06 -0500
Subject: How Life May Live On Europa


Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_619000/619407.stm

BBC News

Wednesday, 26 January, 2000, 19:01 GMT

How life may live on Europa


Impression of a probe searching for life in Europa's ocean

By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

A radiation-driven ecosystem could exist in the ocean thought to
lie beneath the surface of Jupiter's moon Europa, a scientist
has suggested.

Ever since the Voyager spacecraft flew past the Jupiter system
in the 1970's, astronomers have been fascinated by Europa and
its bizarre striped surface and the prospects for primitive
forms of life on the satellite.

But life needs energy. It has been suggested that on the floor
of the suspected subterranean ocean there may be hydrothermal
vents like those found on Earth.

These vents, which gush hot water and minerals, could provide
both the energy and the food sources for primitive Europans.

Mighty Jupiter

However, some analyses of energy sources on Europa have been
pessimistic saying that there may not be enough free-energy
available to support life, or at least life as we know it.

Ice ridges on Europa - sites of life?

If Europa really does have an ocean, it lies beneath an ice
layer that is too thick to permit photosynthesis to be a source
of energy for life-forms. Hydrothermal vents may or may not
exist, but such ecology as exists on Earth depends largely on
oxidants that filter down from the surface of the ocean and this
would not happen on Europa.

In a new analysis, published in the journal Nature, Chris Chyba
of the Seti (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence)
Institute in California suggests that charged sub-atomic
particles that are swirled around Jupiter by its mighty magnetic
field should interact with Europa's icy surface providing energy
that primitive life-forms could tap.

Unusual colours

"Microbial life could exist in concentrations detectable by
surface landers able to filter meltwater from Europa's ice,"
says Dr Chyba.

He suggests that Europa could have a radiation-driven ecosystem
and has calculated the minimum amount of biomass in this
ecosystem by comparing it to ecosystems on Earth. His estimate
is 20 billion grams.

Microbial blooms could also occur wherever the ocean beneath the
ice broke through. Dr Chyba suggests that any unusual colours
detected on the surface of the moon may be an indicator of this.

So far, this is all speculation. These calculations provide a
plausible argument for one of many possible types of
charged-particle or radiation-driven ecosystem. But "only direct
exploration," Dr Chyba concludes, "will reveal whether life on
Europa actually exists."








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                       Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:19:02 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:37:30 -0500
Subject: Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...


 >From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com>
 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:01:59 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:28:57 -0500
 >Subject: Re: From The Sceptic's Tank...

 >I have two words to describe CSICOP and its membership. The
 >first word starts with an "A" and the second with an "H", though
 >often these two words are combined to make one!

 >Of all the times I've seen these clowns on television,
 >especially Joe Nickell, not once, NOT ONCE, has the man's
 >credentials been given. This guy could be a bloody Junior High
 >dropout for all we know.

<snip>

 >I'd like to see some investigative reporting done on this
 >organization for a change. What exactly are their credentials
 >for being "experts" on anything outside of being able to blow
 >their own horn and making the ignorant listen?

Marty:

In order to raise the level of discourse, here, could you please
state what you would consider to be the minimum credentials,
academic or otherwise, in order to be recognized as an "a--
h---" [sic]?

Please be as specific as possible.

Also, for the benefit of the readers of this list, could you
state your own credentials in this academic field?  While you
may assume that your standing in this field may be obvious, many
other members of this list certainly aren't interested in the
rantings of any bloody Junior High dropouts.

Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Stephen Miles Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:13:16 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:48:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:06:55 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:51:21 +0000
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>>>

 >>Dave, you might not know but in the Travis Walton abduction
 >>case, he described the eyes as part of a suit, the "grey suit"
 >>as a "coverall" affair. Which would make the big black eyes
 >>kinda like sunshades. I mean could you _create_ a human's pair
 >>of eyes if you saw a man/woman wearing Raybans?>>

 >Hi,

 >The image was depicted in the film "Fire in the Sky" as being a
 >suit with the black eyes. I don't recall Walton saying anything
 >in his book that he thought the aliens had on suits with the
 >huge eyes. I may be wrong, but that's what I remember.

 >Any comments on this?

 >Chris Kelly

Hello all,

Great lil dialogue y'all got goin here....

Tracey Torme who worked on _Fire In The Sky_ published an
apology to the ufological community right before the film's
release to explain the fact that little or nothing in that film
reflects Travis Walton's experiences.

There was a "grey suit" with the black wraparound eyes in the
film.

The other pre AA film reference to the black lids as covers is
from a local Austin MUFON mini-conf we held featuring abductees
George and Shirley Coyne (of Michigan I think) back in October
of 1991.

I think someone else cited Strieber's 1987 'Communion' tho I am
unsure of that cite's page location.


-=-=-=-=-=-

SMiles Lewis - Elfis Editor
E.L.F. INFESTED SPACES
Journal of Possible Paradigms
http://www.elfis.net
mailto:elfis@elfis.net






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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Stephen Miles Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:50:21 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:53:35 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:49 -0500
 >From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
 >Subject: "60% of Abductees Are Gay" - Randle & Estes
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hello Errol!

 >I found this post quite interesting, and thought you might too.

 >I hope all is well!

 >Kelly McGillis

<snip>

Hi all.

Years ago, researcher friends of mine in California mentioned
how most of the abductees and almost all of the more contactee
type experiencers they knew out West were rather a-sexual in
this reality. In the cases where the abduction was traumatic
they were reflecting the understandable effects of post rape
type psychological problems - while the more new agee contactee
types simply preferred their astral liasons to anything the
physical flesh could offer.

I've occassionally heard the idea expressed that homosexuality
is nature's way of trying to balance out the population; more
homosexuals would tend to mean less population. A biologist I
know has suggested that having a gay sibling would have survival
value for a heterosexual child-rearing couple: by having another
"bread winner" available to devote time and resources to
child-rearing (in the past they weren't out trying to have a
family of their own) they increase the chances for survival of
the child-rearing family genes.

The reason I bring this up is becuz of the oft reported alien
agenda of marriage engineering, genetic manipulations - usually
as their attempts relate to saving our and/or their own
biological diversity due to the aliens' supposed inability to
reproduce sexually (they have no sex organs).

In the Time Travel hypotheses' favor on this one is the idea
that these "aliens" are our future selves and have returned to
save ourselves from an impotent/hive-minded/sexless/infertile
future.

It also bares relevance to previous studies of experiencer
populations which related that CE encontrants often have a"

"... a richness of inner life ...relative weakness in the sense
of identity, especially sexual identity... vulnerability in the
interpersonal realm..." The researcher, Dr. Parnell, also said
the encontrants were of above average intelligence.

SMiles

PS - I know their will undoubtedly be objections to this
material. However I am sure the level of dialogue will be as
high as usual on these fine elists.








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 4

From: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com >
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:40:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:55:25 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 4

==========================

UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 4
January 27, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

UFO SPAWNS A TORNADO
AT A NAVAL BASE IN
ARGENTINA

      "Strange phenomena was reported yesterday
(i.e. Tuesday, January 18, 2000) at the Puerto
Belgrano naval base" in Argentina.
      "Corroborating accounts, such as the one
from retired sailor Marcos Herminio Faini
indicated the presence of a shiny object at an
estimated altitude of 2,000 meters (6,600 feet)
and simultaneously the presence of a powerful
whirlind on the (ground) surface below."
      Puerto Belgrano is located on Argenitna's
South Atlantic shore about 600 kilometers
(360 miles) south of Buenos Aires, the national
capital.
      The weather station at Commandante Espora
Air Base, operated by the Fuerzas Aereas de
Argentina (Argentinian Air Force--J.T.). stated
that atmospheric conditions at the time were
not conducive to the formation of tornados.
"Visibility was at 20 kilometers (12 miles) and
barely noticeable winds with speeds ranging
from 7 to 11 kilometers per hour."
      "'No anomalies were detected,' stated Capt.
Ricardo Legron in a brief Navy communique,
who considered that the object may have been
a 'weather satellite' despite the fact that the
authorities at Espora told the newspapers that
such launches no longer take place."
      A "self-proclaimed skeptic of flying saucer
tales, UFO sightings and such phenomena,"
retired Jefe de Flota (Chief of the Fleet, a rank
comparable to Chief Petty Officer in the U.S.
Navy--J.T.) Faini was quoted as saying, "Look, I
know people will call me a hoaxer.  But I can tell
you that after spending half my life at sea, I have
seen something very special which I believe to be
of scientific value."
      "Faini took a bus from the Micro Omnibus
Punta Alta line about 12:45 p.m. from Mitre,"
the newspaper La Nueva Provincia reported.
"Seated in the second row, next to the window,
he was startled by a whirlwind on the ground
above the future Fleet Junior Officers School
now being built."
      "'The whirlwind was concentric and wasn't
moving.  Completely out of the ordinary.' he
stated."
      "'When I visually tried to locate the column of
dust, I noticed a glowing object stationary in the
southeast.  I showed it to the sergeant in charge
of the (base) hospital's military command."
      "'It's a flying saucer,' he replied laconically, and
the other passengers stared at it, as well.  More
curiosity seekers joined the group.  The object
showed some slight movement, always in the same
direction."
      Faini, 63, was born in Argentina's Entre Rios
province and retired from the Navy in 1983.  During
his career, he served aboard the torpedo boats
San Luis and Buenos Aires, the tugboat Ranquel,
the icebreaker General San Martin, the frigate
Libertad, the cruiser General Belgrano and the
aircraft carrier 25 de Mayo.  (See the Argenitnian
newspaper La Nueva Provincia for January 19, 2000,
"Testimony of a former sailor: Strange flying object
startles observers at Puerto Belgrano; powerful
whirlwind and brilliant sphere seen yesterday."
Many thanks to Scott Corrales, author of
Chupacabras and Other Mysteries for forwarding
this newspaper article.)

CROWDS SIGHT OVAL UFO
OVER ACAPULCO

      On Tuesday evening, January 18, 2000, residents
of Acapulco, a popular resort and Pacific Ocean
port in Mexico's state of Guerrero, "are saying that
they saw an OVNI (Spanish acronym for UFO--J.T.),
according to the testimonoies of the eyewitnesses"
      The witnesses described the OVNI as "kind of
bright and ovulated," adding that "it was seen for
seven minutes flying over the city with highly quick
and strange movements."
      "The OVNI made circles in the night sky, leaving
a flash of green and yellow light behind as a kind
of trail."
      A spokesman for Aeropuerto Internacional de
Acapulco stated that their radar operators "have seen
nothing out of the ordinary" and "had no flights over
the area at that time."
      Acapulco is located 427 kilometers (265 miles)
west of Mexico City, the national capital.  (Muchas
gracias a Guillermo Alarcon para esta historia.)

MYSTERY METEOR EXPLODES
NORTH OF SKAGWAY, ALASKA

      "A meteor exploded over the mountains of southern
Yukon Territory," Canada, on Tuesday, January 18,
2000 at 8:43 a.m., "shaking houses and providing
residents of the remote region with a dazzling light
show, the Geologic Survey of Canada said."
      "The meteor is believed to have exploded in the
atmosphere midway between Carcross, Yukon
Territory, Canada (population 190) and Skagway,
Alaska, USA (population 692).
      Eyewitnesses "'described it as sheet-lightning
like and they turned around and there was a large
green object going through the sky,' said Garry
Rogers of the Pacific Geosciences Center in
Sidney, B.C."  (British Columbia, Canada--J.T.)
      "Witnesses is Carcross said the explosion
rattled windows and shook snow from roofs in
the small village about 120 kilometers (90 miles)
north of Juneau (Alaska, USA), according to Rogers."
      "No injuries or damage were reported...The
explosion was detected by at least three of the
agency's seismic monitoring stations in the
region."
      The explosion was also detected by several
USA Department of Defense (DOD) satellites.
They detected the impact of a meteoroid near
Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada.  The
object detonated at an altitude of 25 kilometers
(15 miles) at 60.25 degrees North Latitude,
134.65 degrees West Longitude.  Optical
(satellite) sensors detected the event at 8:43
a.m."
      Whitehorse is 240 kilometers (150 miles)
north of Skagway, which is about 125 miles
(200 kilometers) northwest of Juneau, the
state capital of Alaska.  (Many thanks to
Errol Bruce-Knapp and Bob Young for this
news story.)

ANOTHER UFO REPORTED
NEAR BANGOR, MAINE

      On Saturday, January 8, 2000, Jean C.
was driving alone in her car, "heading north on
(Interstate Highway) I-95 around 9:30 p.m.
from work in Brewer, Me. (population 9,021),
a town four miles (7 kilometers) south of Bangor.
      "I spotted a yellowish-orange light in a
stationary position about three miles beyond
the Stillwater exit off to my right.  It was near or
around the vicinity of Stillwater Lumber.  I
spotted the light through the trees just before I
got to the clearing.  I was having trouble with my
car, so I did not dare stop as I had a ways to go
and was traveling alone."  (Email Form Report)

TWO RED UFOs SEEN IN
VIRGINIA BEACH, VIRGINIA

      On Friday, January 21, 2000, at 11:15 p.m.,
Lisa B. "left my friend's house and walked across
the street to my house.  I looked up at the sky to
see the lunar eclipse.  As I was looking away, I
saw two moving lights (red or dusty rose in color--
L.B.)  I thought maybe it was two falling stars, but
the size was too large and the color wasn't right.
They were moving parallel to each other with the
top one moving faster..  Then they looped and
came close to each other, looped back out, and
when they came closer together the second time,
they disappeared."
      "My husband and friends decided that it had
to be military-related," Lisa added, "Which I am
believing for the sake of my sanity and peace of
mind."
      Virginia Beach (population 303,069) is located
105 miles (168 kilometers) southeast of Richmond,
the state capital.  (Email Interview)
(Editor's Note:  Virginia Beach is also the world
headquarters of the Association for Research and
Enlightenment (A.R.E.), the non-profit foundation
created by psychic Edgar Cayce.)

SILENT DELTA-SHAPED UFO
SEEN IN ALLIANCE, TEXAS

      On Friday, January 21, 2000, Alice C. was
standing outdoors in Alliance, Texas, near Dallas
and Fort Worth.  "I was standing outside facing
east just as the lunar eclipse was to begin when
a Stealth-shaped object skimmed south to north,
just above the treetops, following a creekbed to
the east of my house."
      "The object stood out because it was moving,
and it was darker than the dark itself.  It appeared
to be about the size of a flattened mid-sized car
and had lights in the back."
      "I am hoping that someone else to the south or
north saw it, before or after I did.  We live just
south of the Alliance airport, west of Dallas-Fort
Worth so airplanes are a constant.  So is the noise
they make.  But this (object) was totally silent."
(Email Interview)

UFOs SIGHTED NEAR ROME
AND IN THE ALPS

      On Wednesday, January 12, 2000, at 5:30 p.m.,
hundreds of motorists on the Autostrada (Highway)
A-1 on the outskirts of Rome, Italy's capital, were
stunned to see a UFO in the sky overhead.
      "Hundreds of eyewitnesses traveling on the
Autostrada A-1 from Nazzano Romano and Fiona
Romano sighted 'a circular luminous object' and
immediately afterward 'a cylinder of light positioned
in the sky.'  The motorists observed the phenomenon
for several minutes."
      On Thursday, December 30, 1999, a family of
tourists from Venezia (Venice) was vacationing in
Italy's Aosta province when they spotted a UFO.
The family was in Champoluc, a village in the Alps
near the border with France.  "A luminous sphere
was seen in the sky over Champoluc by the family.
The object was also seen and reported by the
Carabineri (Italian national police--J.T.)."  (See
the Italian newspapers Il Messaggero for January 13
and 14, 2000; Corriete di Rieti and Corriete di
Viterbo for January 14, 2000.  Grazie a Edoardo
Russo, Sveva Stallone e Massimo Valloscuro di
Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici per questi
rapporti.)

SOUTH PACIFIC UFO APPEARS
OVER NEW GEORGIA

      On Tuesday, December 28, 1999, a UFO, which
was described as "a rotating unidentified object,"
appeared over the port of Noro on New Georgia
Island in the South Pacific.
      "The object appeared quite light at first, though
it looked like shiny glass in the sky.  After some
minutes, it passed through some clouds and then
appeared to be 'a solid ship.'  Weather conditions
in Noro were "fine with some cloud."
      New Georgia is in the Solomon Islands and
lies about 300 kilometers (180 miles) northwest
of Honiara, the national capital, which is located
on Guadalcanal Island.  (See the Solomon Star
for Thursday, January 6, 2000, page 1.  Many
thanks to Ross Dowe, director of Australia's
National Space Centre for this news story.)
(Editor's Note:  New Georgia Island was the
scene of heavy fighting in January 1943, at
the height of World War II.)

TACKANASH RETURNS

      At the end of last month, UFO Roundup
invited readers to share any premonitions they
might have had about the New Millenium.
      Well, we got no takers.  But your editor did
have a couple of strange dreams during the
month of January 2000.  Both dreams featured
Tackanash, an elderly Anishinabe man who
has popped up in my dreams at odd intervals
throughout my life.
      Unlike December's dream, this time there
was no Cahokia, no Wyoming sun dance
and, thankfully, no bombs in New York City.
But one chilling sequence repeated itself--
twice!
      The first dream occurred on Monday,
January 10, 2000.  I dreamed it was a cold
day with a light and bright overcast here in
Duluth.  It was cold, but there was no snow
on the ground, a condition that suggests a
day in November rather than March.
      Tackanash, dressed for powwow, and I
walked into the red brick Walgreen's pharmacy
at the corner of Superior Street and 13th
Avenue East.  I looked for the Chicago Tribune
but that shelf was empty.  It was a typical
morning at the pharmacy--clerks ringing up purchases
and shoppers wandering up and down the aisles.
Stopping at the candy display, I turned to Tackanash
and said, "Want some M & M's, Nimishoo?"
(Anishinabe for Grandfather--J.T.)
      He crooked his index finger impatiently.  "Come
over here, Masinaigan.  Hurry!"
      Curious, I joined him and peered out the glass-
enclosed doorway.  Lake Superior was clearly visible
about a quarter-mile south of us.  I saw a few whitecap
waves out on the Big Lake.
      All of a sudden, a giant wave appeared in the
southeast.  Swiftly it blotted out my view of the
Wisconsin shore and grew larger and larger.
Impossibly large!  Fifty or sixty feet, at least.
To my horror, I realized that it was coming
straight towards shore--straight towards us!
      Tackanash and I backpedaled away from the
doorway.  Seconds later, the wave struck.  The
brick building rocked on its foundations.  People
began screaming.  Horrified, I glanced at the
door.  Roiling waters rose up the glass until it
was completely submerged..
      The walls held! I thought, But the door is
only reinforced glass--.
      Before I could finish the thought, the glass
exploded under the incredible water pressure.
A jet of lakewater six feet high cascaded into
the pharmacy, knocking over displays, pushing
tables aside, sweeping goods from the shelves.
      Grabbing Tackanash's shoulder, I shouted,
"This way, Nimishoo!"
      I led him out the store's back entrance, into a
small parking area.  We plunged into eddying
thigh-deep floodwaters.  I let out a yell.  That
water was cold!
      Somehow I managed to clamber up over the
stone retaining wall and, soaking wet, gave
Tackanash a helping hand.  Together we dashed
across First Street into the woods beside the
Dental Associates building, with the icy water
lapping at our ankles.
      Tackanash grabbed my right arm and pulled
me after him, making his way up and out of the
creekbed.  "No, boy, this way!"
     I frowned.  "I have a name, Nimishoo."
      "Hush, Masinaigan.  Save your breath for
climbing."
      We weren't the only ones climbing.  Two
dozen panicky pedestrians were also running
uphill.  I glanced over my shoulder.  Lakewater
poured over First Street, drowning the front
steps of the old brownstone houses.  The
Miller-Dwan Medical Center looked like an
island sitting out in the middle of the lake.
      At last we reached Fourth Street.  We began
to shiver in our wet clothes.  I stopped at the
driveway of an 1890s home.  A very anxious man
was carrying a box full of canned goods to his
waiting sport utility vehicle.
      "Excuse me," I said, briskly rubbing my
damp arms.  "Can we use your fireplace to dry
our clothes?"
      "Do whatever you like," he replied, eyes
wide with fear.  "I'm getting the hell out of here!"
      And I woke up.
      The second dream occurred one week later,
on January 17, 2000, and it was much shorter.
      I dreamed that Tackanash and I were standing
on a stony outcrop with a panoramic view of Lake
Superior.  I looked around in puzzlement.  I didn't
recognize the spot, but it sure looked like North
Shore boreal forest to me.
      Down below was an inlet surrounded on both
sides by balsam and tamarack forest.  Four boats
were at anchor there, and everyone in the boats
had a fishing pole.  Again, the scene had a November
feel with its overcast sky, a bit darker than the one in
my previous dream.
      Blinking in confusion, I asked, "Where are we,
Nimishoo?"
      "Rainbow Creek," he said.
      And then I heard a booming surf sound.  Turning
lakeward, I spied a big wave coming ashore.  It was
nowhere near as large as the ones in my previous
dreams.  This one was about 25 feet high.  It
smashed against the rocky shore and flooded
the inlet, capsizing all four of the boats.  All of the
fishermen had life preservers, so they popped back
to the surface.  But they were carried upriver by the
surge of lakewater, which flooded the woods on
both sides.
      And I woke up.
      Tackanash's phrase stuck in my mind.
Rainbow Creek.  It didn't sound familiar.  Just
to make sure, I checked a map of northern
Minnesota.  Nope, no Rainbow Creek emptying
into Lake Superior.
      However, I was sure that I'd been looking
at Lake Superior's North Shore.  After twenty
years of vacationing up here and a year in
residence, I know the shore.  So I dug up a
map of Canada's Ontario province at the Duluth
Public Library.  And whattaya know--there's
Rainbow Creek, just east of Schreiber, Ontario,
a Superior shore town I've never been to.
      It seems like an "impossible" event--a tsunami
or tidal wave on Lake Superior.  But now I'm
wondering if it might actually happen.  Perhaps
a poweful earthquake, centered in either the eastern
end of Michigan's Upper Peninsula or Ontario's
"Algoma Country" between Wawa, Ont. and Sault
Sainte Marie, Ont., might trigger such an event.
      That makes three times now I've dreamed of
a Lake Superior tidal wave.  If dreams really are
prophetic, and it does happen someday, I have
two predictions.
      (1) It will happen on an overcast morning
in November.
      (2) About 300 miles of the lake's North
Shore will be hit hard.

from the UFO Files...

1949: LET'S DO IT AGAIN--
           THE STAR ARIEL

      On Monday, January 17, 1949, the British
South American Airways (BSSA) airliner
Star Ariel revved up her four propellor engines
on the runway in Hamilton, Bermuda, ready
to take off for the rest of her flight to Santiago
de Chile.
      Anyone who'd been in Hamilton a year earlier,
on January 30, 1948, might be experiencing some
deja vu.  For it was on that night that Star Ariel's
sister airliner, the Star Tiger, vanished while
approaching Bermuda from the northeast.  (For
more on the Star Tiger, see UFO Roundup,
volume 5, number 3.)
      Like the Star Tiger, the Star Ariel was an
"Avro, Tudor IV, Post War pressurized cabin
Luxury Airliner."  The aircraft had the same
four propellor engines and wings used by the
RAF's Lancaster bomber in World War II.  Her
builder, A.V. Roe & Company, had redesigned
the wartime Lancaster's fuselage, making it
larger and more spacious.
      Unlike her sister airliner, the Star Ariel did
not have a full complement of 33 passengers
on board.  The Star Ariel "was carrying only
12 passengers and a crew of six," including
Captain J.C. McPhee, First Officer F. Dauncey,
Second Officer V. Shapley, Radio Operator
G. Rettie, Steward K. Coleman and Stewardess
J. Moxon.
      Promptly at 7:42 a.m. on January 17, 1949,
the Star Ariel rolled down the Hamilton runway.
Captain McPhee eased back on the yoke, and
the Tudor began its climbout, starting her
six-hour, 1,000-mile flight to Kingston, Jamaica.
      One hour into the flight, Captain McPhee
picked up his microphone and said, "Hamilton
Control, this is Star Ariel.  I am switching radio
frequencies to Kingston Control, over."
      "Roger, Star Ariel.  We are handing off to
Kingston.  Have a nice flight.  Over and out."
      The Star Ariel's estimated time of arrival
in Jamaica was 1:42 p.m.  The Tudor's fuel
tanks had enough aviation gasoline to fly
for ten hours.  No more.
      Captain McPhee's routine call was the last
anyioe ever heard from the Star Ariel.  The
propellor-engine airliner was never seen again.
      At 5:42 p.m., with Star Ariel's fuel tanks
apparently dry, the U.S. Coast Guard declared
the airliner to be "missing" and organized a
comprehensive air-sea search to begin at
dawn on January 18, 1949.
      "Meanwhile, just before dusk, a U.S. Army
plane from Kindley Field, Bermuda made a sweep
of the area of the Tudor's last reported position,
without sighting anything."
      At 3 a.m., a U.S. Air Force B-29 bomber
took off from MacDill Field in Florida, kicking off
the search.  Next, at 5 a.m., a USAF B-17 bomber
lifted off the runway, heading for Bermuda.
      The U.S. Coast Guard sent rescue planes
into the area from its bases in Massachusetts,
New York, North Carolina and Florida.  "By high
noon, the Coast Guard announced that 72 search
planes, many ships and approximately 13,000 men
were actively engaged in the hunt for life."
      The U.S. Navy sent an entire task force to
join the search.  Included were the battleship
USS Missouri, the aircraft carriers USS Leyte
and USS Kearsarge and six destroyers.
      In Havana, President Carlos Prio Socarras
announced that the Cuban Air Force would also
join the hunt for the missing Star Ariel.
      Even if Captain McPhee had been forced to
ditch the airliner in the ocean, the searchers were
confident of finding survivors.  "The Tudor IV had
five emergency exits, carried three large dinghies,
one fitted with a radio transmitter, and life belts
were stowed under the passenger seats and in
the crew's compartment."
      "As the days passed without finding a trace
of the Star Ariel, the U.S. Air Force added 16 more
planes," including "12 B-29s, two (PBY-2) Catalina
flying boats, and two B-17s from the United States."
      A valiant effort, but it was all in vain.  There
was no sign of a downed airliner.  Or the yellow
inflatable dinghies.  Or even a debris field..
      And then, during the early morning hours of
January 20, 1949, nearly three days after the
Star Ariel's engines had run dry, the pilot of a
BSSA four-propellor-engine Constellation airliner
"reported that he twice saw lights on the water,"
at low altitude.  "the (Connie) crew said the
light was seen 300 miles (480 kilometers)
southwest of Bermuda."
      The U.S. Air Force discounted their claim
of seeing "mysterious lights" over that stretch
of ocean and "added that search craft had been
out flying wingtip to wingtip in the reported area,"
both above and below the clouds, "but had not
sighted anything."
      As with her sister, the Star Tiger, no trace of
the Star Ariel was ever found.  Intriguingly, she
had gone missing exactly 13 days before the
first anniversary of the Star Tiger's disappearance.
      On December 20, 1949, nearly a year later,
the UK Ministry of Civil Aviation issued its final
report on the strange case of the Star Ariel.
      Air Commodore Vernon Brown, Chief Inspector
of Air Accidents, wrote, "Through lack of evidence
due to no wreckage having been found, the cause
of the accident to the Star Ariel is unknown."
      "The Star Ariel was lost almost exactly a year
after a sister aircraft, the Star Tiger, had disappeared
in much the same area and in equally mysterious
circumstances."
      Today, a half-century later, the disappearances
of the Star Tiger and the Star Ariel almost exactly
a year apart remain among the strangest events
in the lore of UFOs.  (See the book Limbo of the
Lost by John Wallace Spencer, Bantam Books,
New York, N.Y., 1973, pages 34 to 41.)

      We'll be back next week with more UFO and
paranormal news from around the planet, brought
to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup.
See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may
post news items from UFO Roundup on their
websites or in newsgroups provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue in which the item first
appeared.

*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------
http://www.thehungersite.com

Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.

There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!
*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm


Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin
and AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences,
UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
Filer's Files.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 27

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:01:53 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:09:50 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:33:28 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Cinde Costello <LOOKIN4ET@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:02:27 +0000
 >>From: Thomas E Morris <Temorris@pacbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Recently I was called upon to recreate in 3D the typical alien
 >>>(just the head) which seemed like a pretty straight forward
 >>>thing since these guys don't have much in the way of facial
 >>>features.

 >><snip>

 >>>at size would not only be too big
 >>>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >>>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>>interest.

 >>My impression of the alien appearance is that it is not real.
 >>Maybe some kind of suit or mask to allow them free travel in our
 >>environment. Maybe something else, but I never felt that it was
 >>flesh & bone. The eyes are a part of this wardrobe.

 >>If anyone has comments or other similar ideas, I'd very much
 >>like to hear them.

Hi Cinde,

It's always good to hear from someone who's actually seen these
creatures.

I have never been approached or abducted by these things, maybe
they think I'll just stink up the place.

 >I can understand your dilemma in trying to get those eyes just
 >right.

I recently tried again, still couldn't get the eyes to fit.

 >I can't speak for everyone who has seen them but my own
 >observations showed me that they look incredibly odd.  They are
 >more flat than round, almost too big, they have no pupils that I
 >saw and no facial features to speak of.  I would swear they wear
 >some kind of one-piece suit that encompasses the head due to
 >their lack of wrinkles, expressions, facial (or even fine body)
 >hair, etc.

This is my only possible conclusion to the eyesize, a mask or
environment suit of some kind.

Come to think of it, wouldn't we be doing the same thing? who
knows what kind of germs we might pick up, look at what happened
to the Martians in 'War Of The Worlds'.

 >I never noticed any type of zipper though... if it is a suit, I
 >wonder how they get in and out of it?

I would imagine they have advanced beyond the zipper revolution.

Here's hoping you get a good nights sleep with no visitations at
3am (approx).

Dave.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 27

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:04:27 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:21:45 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:07:45 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:40:27 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>(One of Whitley Strieber's remarks in 'Communion' is that the
 >>>archetypal alien head on the cover isn't as big as what he
 >>>observed. And since I seem to have been under attack lately, let
 >>>me stress that this isn't a whole-hearted endorsement for
 >>>Strieber...or any other "abductee.")

 >>I am glad you picked up on that, the creature depicted on the
 >>the cover of 'Communion' was a cartoon character.

 >The picture on 'Communion' was an attempt by a competent artist,
 >Ted Jacobs, to draw an image from waking memory.  As such it has
 >the look of a "police sketch."  It's clearly an impressionistic
 >portrait.

So in other words not an exact depiction but an exaggeration.
Doesn't it strike you as odd how some people have been
describing this exaggeration ever since?

 >>>>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>>>interest.

 >>>"Impossible creatures"?  Not really.  Possibly just _weird_
 >>>creatures.  They're supposed to be aliens, right?

 >>I was kind of hoping that no-one would give me that "they're
 >>aliens so anything goes" jive.

 >I _wasn't_ giving you the "they're aliens so anything goes"
 >jive.

 >I inferred that

Sorry, I stand corrected.

I was kind of hoping that no-one would 'infer' that "they're
aliens so anything goes".

How's that?

Dave.








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 27

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:16:43 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:32:38 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:51:21 +0000
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi Dave

 ><snip>

 >>Next time someone draws a sketch of an alien that supposedly
 >>abducted them, look at the eyes.

 >>Imagine looking down on the creature so you can see the contour
 >>of the eye and follow it round and you'll see what I mean.

 >>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>interest.

 >Dave, you might not know but in the Travis Walton abduction
 >case, he described the eyes as part of a suit, the "grey suit"
 >as a "coverall" affair. Which would make the big black eyes
 >kinda like sunshades. I mean could you _create_ a human's pair
 >of eyes if you saw a man/woman wearing Raybans?

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the advice, I must get around to watching that film
again at some time especially since you mentioned the 'grey
suit'.

I tried watching the film some time ago but it just seemed to be
a lot of Hollywood bunkum, I must have switched off/fell asleep
before they got to the 'coverall' bit.

Dave.

p.s.

Good point about the Raybans.








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:33:18 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:37:37 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:06:55 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:51:21 +0000
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>>>

 >>Dave, you might not know but in the Travis Walton abduction
 >>case, he described the eyes as part of a suit, the "grey suit"
 >>as a "coverall" affair. Which would make the big black eyes
 >>kinda like sunshades. I mean could you _create_ a human's pair
 >>of eyes if you saw a man/woman wearing Raybans?>>

 >Hi,

 >The image was depicted in the film "Fire in the Sky" as being a
 >suit with the black eyes. I don't recall Walton saying anything
 >in his book that he thought the aliens had on suits with the
 >huge eyes. I may be wrong, but that's what I remember.

 >Any comments on this?

 >Chris Kelly

Hi Chris

I am speaking with reference to the film because I have not read
the book. I will get round to it, but there are so many books to
be read and so little time to do it.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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   Jan > Jan 27

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:04:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:40:00 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:02 -0400
 >To: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Stan,

 >Where has any connection been shown between the debris and
 >Roswell?

<Snip>

 >What possiblebasis is there for saying anything about the durability
 >or flamability?? I haven't seen test results. Is the material
 >available for test or is this all inference from looking at the
 >footage? I know of a very good forensic testing lab....

The next issue of Flatland will have an article which will try
to show the possible connection between the Roswell debris and
the debris shown in the AA. Durability is not the best term; I
agree. But I remember, off the top of my head, that some of the
firemen tried to light the thin foil with lighters and it
wouldn't fire. Lack of mass was my main point. Wasn't the
Roswell material very light? All inferences to the AA debris are
from carefully viewing the AA debris section.

Its still not clear to me whether you've read the "discussion of
the debris" posted awhile back.

Also while I have your attention... how do you explain the
restricted coded that was posted in the hoaxed tent footage? Did
you read my explanation for that?

I think Ray's "lies" could be taken a number of ways but thanks for
posting them for all to see.

Ed







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                         Who is Alexander Kazantzev?

From: Richard D. Nolane <raynaud@total.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:22:04 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:45:12 -0500
Subject: Who is Alexander Kazantzev?


Dear list members,

I'm trying to find detailed biographical data on the Russian
science fiction writer and ufologist Alexander Kazantzev.

Kazantzev, born in 1906, was the man in USSR who put forward the
idea in 1946 that it was an atomic powered spaceship and not a
comet or an asteroid which exploded over Siberia in 1908. He was
also an ardent promoter of the astro-archeological theories in
USSR. I saw a recent picture of him and he may be still alive.

I read somewhere that he was a Colonel, elsewhere that he was a
scientist, elsewhere that he was only a successful science
fiction writer (3 of his SF novels were translated in France)...

So it would be interesting for all of us to know more about this
man, rather mysterious for the occidental researchers but very
influential in his country.

Many thanks in advance for the help.

RDN







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:24:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:14:54 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:02 -0400
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Good evening Stan

 >1. Ray stated to me that Harry Truman was clearly visible in the
 >film.. He is NOT.

I heard a rumour a few years back that the person alleged to be
Truman was the Sheriff. Apparently the Sheriff, I do not know
his name, looked a lot like Truman. Perhaps this might account
for some people saying that they saw Truman in one of the film
clips?

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:07:06 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:31:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:09:10 -0800
 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
 >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>Another thing. Why aren't all of you who profess these
 >>sightings documenting them with video and 35 mm film shots?
 >>Isn't it amazing how all of these sightings are either made by
 >>those who don't have a camera of some kind available, or take
 >>pictures of "lights" in the sky, which have no definition or
 >>background by which to measure their density?

 >>In todays climate, there is no excuse for not having a camera
 >>with you at virtually any time. In your car, in your bag or
 >>purse.

 >>Police cars equiped with old technology video cameras. They
 >>should all have night vision capabilities, for obvious reasons,
 >>not including UFO sightings.

 >>Just for your information...I carry a 35 mm camera, binoculars,
 >>micro-cassette recorder/player, electromagnetic field detector,
 >>compass and geiger counter in my car all the time, and many times
 >>I also carry a stereo, High-8mm camcorder and tripod!

 >>Always carry a tripod! Enough of these shaky little lights in
 >>the black night sky.

 >Yeah, right, at 10:30 on a cold November evening taking my Irish
 >Setter out for a last pee before bedtime, I am expected to be
 >fully equipped with my camera - with all correct night settings
 >- plus a tripod, electromagnetic field detector, compass and
 >Geiger counter - oh yea, and a stereo, high-8mm camcorder! Have
 >I got that right?

 >You forget, most of the people who see something unusual in the
 >sky, don't believe in ufos to begin with, so are unlikely to go
 >to the expense of buying all that equipment to take a good shot
 >of something they don't believe exists. Much less break their
 >shoulders carrying it around or risk theft in their car.

 >And those of us who do believe, especially those of us who have
 >always believed there is such a thing, but have gone on faith,
 >and have never seen anything, are to be expected to be ready in
 >a second because after all these years, something just might be
 >there, are also expected to have such items on our person at all
 >times.

 >If you are not accustomed to seeing anomalies in the sky,
 >(whether you are a believer or not) the shock of actually seeing
 >something unusual tends to cause a few seconds of mental
 >confusion which can cost valuable time which should you suggest
 >be spent getting that camcorder or camera up to your eye and
 >getting a shot that includes at least two earth based points of
 >reference so that the height, size etc can be determined later
 >by angulation. And heaven help you if you haven't got the
 >camcorder settings right for night sky or the camera pre-set.

 >Snip

 >The expert quoted in the original story talked about seeing ufos
 >because they expect to! After 47 years of seeing nothing
 >anomalous in the sky, my sighting, different from anything I
 >have ever even read about in all those years, caught me totally
 >unprepared as it does most people. Proving the expert was as
 >out to lunch as you suggesting the exact opposite! We are
 >supposed to be ready and armed every moment and expecting to see
 >something? How ludicrous!

 >But then, maybe if my friend was able to get his hands on all
 >that equipment, you might accept all the pictures he takes as
 >legitimate? Just because he was 'prepared'! And I have no
 >credibility because I was just helping my dog respond to the
 >call of nature!!!!

 >Other than that minor problem with your note, I agreed with
 >everything else!

 >Lesley

 >here on the farm still staring upwards, and still unprepared!

Dear Listers:

A lotta truth in them words. And some (in my opinion) silliness,
too.

In September of 1998 I saw an anomalous object outside my condo.
I've been around exotic spacecraft and aircraft all my
professional life. For years, my office was abutting the Grumman
test runway at two of their locations. For a number of years
after that, I had an office right outside a military airport and
from my perspective, let me tell you it was exciting at times. I
had an office in a trailer just inside the perimeter at Goddard
Spaceflight Center and had privy to lots of exotic stuff. Even
worked on some.

I say these things because I am not easily intimidated by
strange flying objects.

But this huge triangular beast got me so excited I fumbled
everything I tried to do. Couldn't find my Camcorder, couldn't
find my binoculars, couldn't find my telescope and damned if all
those items were hanging _on_ my telescope which was located
immediately inside my terrace doors, the doors I had to go
through in order to view this object.

I was confused. I was terribly excited. I was shaking. It was
difficult for me to decide, once I determined where all the
optics were, which one to use. I grabbed the binocs, which are
excellent glasses and capture a good field of view even at 20X.
And they are easily worked.

Problem was, I could not stop shaking and so just drawing a bead
on that object was impossible, I was shaking so hard. I had to
go to the edge of my terrace to get to the fence so that I could
lay my arms on it in order to steady them. It was extremely
frustrating, knowing that what I was seeing was impossible.
Couldn't be there, couldn't do that. Couldn't be that large,
etc., etc., etc. And by the way, I was continually screaming for
my wife to come out on the terrace. She never heard me.

The Camcorder is completely automatic, would have been no
problem to point and shoot. I could not even imagine going for
it, as it never crossed my mind. It was only after the fact,
when the object was out of sight, that I realized it was where
it was and I could have used it.

But to say "I have no intention of being prepared!" or words to
that effect, is also silly. I now carry that camcorder all the
time. I also carry a throw away camera and an audio tape
recorder, one of those pocket types.

A few DAYS ago, I had ample opportunity to use all of them
again. I did not. I was in my car, so was my wife, and the rest
of the family was nearby. I never even thought of reaching over
to get the camera.

God help me. When you see something _that_ anomalous, you are
very discomboobulated and exceedingly animated from the
excitement. It's even intoxicating to a degree. And I am a
degreed professional. An electronics engineer. What we all did
was just stand (or sit) planted exactly where we were and stared
blankly in shock at the sight.

I always tell myself, "Next time I'll be ready." Probally not. Too
emotional.

Jim Mortellaro






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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:39:02 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:35:14 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:24:09 +0000
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:02 -0400
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Good evening Stan

 >>1. Ray stated to me that Harry Truman was clearly visible in the
 >>film.. He is NOT.

 >I heard a rumour a few years back that the person alleged to be
 >Truman was the Sheriff. Apparently the Sheriff, I do not know
 >his name, looked a lot like Truman. Perhaps this might account
 >for some people saying that they saw Truman in one of the film
 >clips?

All,

Looking back at my archived info from the time it seems the
"official" explanation for the non appearance of Truman in the
film was that, Ray had been told by the "cameraman" he was there
at one of the shoots and indeed one of the film boxes did
contain the name Truman.

At that time Ray was "talking up" the film and was working on
the assumption he would indeed get Truman on one of the reels.

Bob Shell some time down the road mentioned that he had been
told the 'Truman Reel' was stuck together when opened (old
nitrate type film had that habit if not stored correctly) and
they got zilch off of it. Hence no Harry Truman.

Neil.

-------------------------------------------------------
                      Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Web Sites:        Roswell and Alien Autopsy
                   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
         The Fort Worth Photographs of James Bond Johnson
                http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/
-------------------------------------------------------







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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Marty Murray <bubastis@warplink.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:25:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:37:14 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:06:55 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Chris Kelly <MIBAREA51@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:51:21 +0000
 >>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca> >>

 >>Dave, you might not know but in the Travis Walton abduction
 >>case, he described the eyes as part of a suit, the "grey suit"
 >>as a "coverall" affair. Which would make the big black eyes
 >>kinda like sunshades. I mean could you _create_ a human's pair
 >>of eyes if you saw a man/woman wearing Raybans?>>

 >Hi,

 >The image was depicted in the film "Fire in the Sky" as being a
 >suit with the black eyes. I don't recall Walton saying anything
 >in his book that he thought the aliens had on suits with the
 >huge eyes. I may be wrong, but that's what I remember.

 >Any comments on this?

 >Chris Kelly

Howdy Chris!

The film 'Fire In The Sky', so far as I can remember, depicted
no suits at all.

What it did show was a bunch of aliens who looked like naked,
ornery old men! This portion of the film also had little if
anything to do with the actual account that Walton gave.

I found the film incredibly disappointing.

The producers obviously went for the "shock and scare" tactic
rather than trying to give an accurate depiction of what really
took place. At least "Roswell" attempted to stick to the facts.

Take care,

Marty







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:13:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:43:42 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 02:50:51 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:26 -0600
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

(sorry, EBK. I promised I'd let this drop, but I can't let this
nonsense go unchallenged...)

Previously, I had written:

 >>Gee, Ed. Make up your mind. On the one hand you maintain that
 >>I'm dead wrong because the containment suit issue is nothing but
 >>"hearsay"; on the other hand, you go to great lengths to try and
 >>justify the improper usage that you just said didn't exist!

Regarding such containment suits, I suggest you check out an old
video called "The Doomsday Chronicles". Within it you will find
an official, U.S. government produced documentary about a
partial meltdown in Idaho Falls, Idaho in 1959 or 1960, I'm not
sure which. This government produced documentary clearly
demonstrates the proper usage of radiation and bio-hazard
containment suits as I described to you earlier; two layers,
self-contained air and all joints taped shut. AA clearly
violates all these protocols. In fact, the AA suits look more
like fire fighting rescue gear to me.

Moving on, Ed had written:

 >I don't know why the doctors were wearing the suits or if they
 >were wearing them in the proper manner. Since its the only
 >historical fact that seems to be out of place, I suggested other
 >reasons that could explain why.

Of course, Ed. Any reason is possible to you other than the
obvious; that the producers of the AA film screwed up.

Ed, this illustrates why this debate with you goes nowhere.
Every time someone rises to the challenge you make regarding
evidence, you simply discount such evidence as an anomaly or
mistake. The containment suit issue is one example; following is
another:

You challenged San Friedman to produce the "lies" that Ray had
told him which he easily did in another post. Following is your
response:

 >I think Ray's "lies" could be taken a number of ways....

Tell, us Ed. Just how many ways can a lie be taken? Or is this
like the containment suit issue? Ray didn't lie; he was simply
mistaken, right?

Moving on I wrote:

 >>Orderly's are not used in the operating room
 >>under any condition. Operating rooms are restricted to vital
 >>personal only. And just how much "dissection" did you see while
 >>working in the ER, Ed?

You replied:

 >I worked (as an orderly) at two hospitals in Albuquerque NM while I was
 >attending school at UNM.

<snip>

 >The AA doctors sure acted and looked like
 >doctors to me.

I do not doubt that you were an orderly. I do seriously doubt
that any doctor would choose an orderly over a trained nurse to
assist during an operation. Orderlies are not used in O.R.
during surgery. Nurses are. You are neither a nurse or a doctor.
As an orderly, you were around doctors but I do not believe for
an instant that you ever assisted them with a single surgery.
Therefore, your knowledge of standard surgical procedures would
be severely limited. Of course, I guess this is just another one
of your "anomalies" where standard protocol was ignored. Glad I
wasn't a patient in that hospital!

Regarding effects people reproducing the AA alien, Ed writes:

 > So OK none have tried. I'll
 >certainly agree to that since its what I intended to say in the
 >first place. Why?.. because it�s probably impossible. I think
 >they would have if they could have.

Why would they, Ed? For the glory? For the money? For the
satisfaction of proving Ray wrong? And what would it prove to
you anyway? Your fallback position would simply be that just
because they figured out how to do it doesn't mean that's how it
was done! This is illustrated by the following where you wrote:

 >You state the AA could be a video; I concede but feel that you
 >should offer some proof for this other than "Ray is in the music
 >business"

Here is the problem as I see, Ed. You demand that everyone but
you spend time and resources to prove their case. Yet you do
nothing when presented with the evidence! You claim to be a
historian yet you do no research of any kind regarding the
containment suits. You claim to be searching for the truth yet
you continually misquote Bob Shell in an effort to support your
position. You demand technical evidence about the video yet,
obviously, you haven't bothered to check the video frame by
frame to even see if the evidence is really there! When people
go to great lengths to explain why it is important for the AA
film to be an original with the Alien on it you write:

 >I concede the AA could be a copy but so what?

When Ray's "lies" are presented to you, you ignore them and
write:


 >You imply that Ray is dishonest but again no proof.

The man lied, Ed. Stan provided you with the info you demanded
regarding these lies and you blatantly choose to ignore it!
Anything that doesn't fit into your mythology about AA is simply
a "mistake" that can be explained away by you

If your idea of winning a debate is simply to be the last man
standing, then you win! It matters not what anyone presents to
you. You will _always_ maintain that their evidence is merely an
anomaly. If that doesn't work, you try and maintain that lies
and technical info are subjective. And if that doesn't work, you
simply say, "Yeah? So what?"

What kind of a discussion is that?

You maintain that you have been in contact with Ray. Have you
made the same demands of him regarding evidence that you've been
making of us? If not, then why? Certainly you should lean on Ray
just as hard as you do participants of this list, right? I mean,
he's the one making the claims that you defend so valiantly.

And here's where your brand of logic is your undoing:

You maintain that any form of inaction is an indicator of
inability to prove something; i.e. "Why hasn't anyone duplicated
the alien in AA?" To you, the fact that no one has means that
they can't and are, therefore, lying. If this is true, then
doesn't Ray's inability to provide the evidence required by you
mean that he's lying?

Oh, silly me. I forgot. You don't require any evidence that AA
is _real_. You only require evidence that AA isn't.....

So, I'll play your game one last time. You want a scenario of
how all this might happen. Here's one:

Ray happens to get a few, dark frames of old copy film showing
an empty room with a table on it. He thinks to himself,"Hey, if
I created an identical room and shot an alien autopsy in it, I
could sell the video and use these old frames of the empty room
to prove it's date and origin!"

Here's your scenario:


 >My opinion is
 >that they are creatures who have been/lived here for many moons,
 >perhaps millions of years and live under the ocean and/or on
 >Mars (yes at one time they were ET). They protect us. That's
 >what I believe they were doing when several were shot down over
 >New Mexico in the summer of 47.
 >

Which one do you really think is more likely?

Roger Evans







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:20:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:45:17 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:24:09 +0000
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:02 -0400
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Good evening Stan

 >>1. Ray stated to me that Harry Truman was clearly visible in the
 >>film.. He is NOT.

 >I heard a rumour a few years back that the person alleged to be
 >Truman was the Sheriff. Apparently the Sheriff, I do not know
 >his name, looked a lot like Truman. Perhaps this might account
 >for some people saying that they saw Truman in one of the film
 >clips?

The only similar comment I have heard is that Barney Barnett,
who was not involved with Roswell at all, but was over in the
Plains of San Augustin, looked like Truman which he did.
Sherriff Wilcox isn't in the footage either, but then nobody
recognizable is.

Stan Friedman







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                             CONAIPO Information

From: Victor Quezada <conaipo@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:07:01 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:42:26 -0500
Subject: CONAIPO Information

Hello:

The National School of investigating Paranormal and UFO is an
Mexican organization without ends lucre that arises in the face
of the necessity of a better knowledge it has more than enough
abnormal and extraordinary phenomenon�s that so much calls the
attention of people in this time and that very few times, before
the desperation of those who have gone by an experience of this
type, are truly investigated.

For the real impossibility that the few researchers that exist
embrace in form and time each one of the cases that are
presented and to arrive to the truth, the school presents like
an option so that people become the investigators of their own
cases, providing tools, technical, accesses to databases and
professional consultant ships that together with the interest
and enthusiasm of those involved allow new roads to try to find
the truth and to diffuse this knowledge to the humanity.

For those who have not had an experience it has more than enough
over these topics and however they want to know but, the School
is presented like an alternating source of information and as a
link with other people with interests, Research Investigation
Paranormal�s National School and UFO have the mission of
educating, to investigate, to find the truth and to diffuse the
knowledge on these abnormal and extraordinary phenomenon�s.

The School wants it achieves that these studies are respected
and they are done with the seriousness that corresponds it.

And this attempted it by means of the implementation of
technical didactic, combinations of technologies and exchange of
experiences with expertise recognized in these topics.

It looked for to increase the knowledge and the development of
a bigger culture on these topics in the country.

The School has in these moments a strong presence in the
Investigation of the phenomenon UFO, same that has grown since
in this millennium end, the man has wakened up to the
possibility of not being alone in the Universe.

When beginning on this vast field of interesting facts, it
offers the opportunity from a new light to the history and the
human progress and a glamorous action field.

The School is in if a regulator in the way of working so diverse
in the investigation of the UFO and of the multiple groups that
have arisen in our country, interested in investigating this
topic and that in an or another way they spread to allow to lose
the valuable achieved  knowledge, for the lack of continuity of
its investigations, for the lack of means to extend its
communications and the uncertainty of the permanency of its
members.

For all the above-mentioned this institution is manifested as a
concentrator of knowledge willing to channel it to all the
interested ones.

The man has wakened up to the possibility of not being alone in
the universe and this shakes its thought, it breaks ideals and
old forms. The man needs so much being it leaves of something
big as standing out, he needs to belong to the winning team and
the same time to shine with own light, has fear of extinguishing
, let us pass to the history like our destination demands and
let us teach something to the humanity.

That we have the power of carrying out the dreams.


Please see the web page:

http://www,geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/9217

or

http://spin.com.mx/~aalbarran/conaipo


Greetings

Lic. Vctor Quezada.







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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:34:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:11:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:07:06 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Dear Listers:

 >A lotta truth in them words. And some (in my opinion) silliness,
 >too.

 >In September of 1998 I saw an anomalous object outside my condo.
 >I've been around exotic spacecraft and aircraft all my
 >professional life. For years, my office was abutting the Grumman
 >test runway at two of their locations. For a number of years
 >after that, I had an office right outside a military airport and
 >from my perspective, let me tell you it was exciting at times. I
 >had an office in a trailer just inside the perimeter at Goddard
 >Spaceflight Center and had privy to lots of exotic stuff. Even
 >worked on some.

 >I say these things because I am not easily intimidated by
 >strange flying objects.

 >But this huge triangular beast got me so excited I fumbled
 >everything I tried to do. Couldn't find my Camcorder, couldn't
 >find my binoculars, couldn't find my telescope and damned if all
 >those items were hanging _on_ my telescope which was located
 >immediately inside my terrace doors, the doors I had to go
 >through in order to view this object.

<snip>

Hahahahah... Good report Jim... and unfortunately, all to often
the same results by "most" observers.  However, there is
sufficient video and still pics to prove that not everyone
suffers from UFO anxiety. hahahahahah...

I have been there... experienced those feelings also, but then
managed to regain my composure and realize what my goal was.

I finally came to the realization that we cannot be overwhelmed
by what we are interacting with, and only by detatching ourselves
emotionally from the experience, can we every hope to be able to
view, record, or snap pics of these objects.

Not only that, but if we carry a micro-cassette recorder, we
must be able to calmly (as much as possible) describe what we
are seeing and the landmarks by which we can measure size,
distance and depth to the sighting.

I agree that it is a difficult position in which to find
oneself, but it happens.

This is what separates the successful experiencer from those who
are not.  The ability to "focus" all of our attention on the
moment at hand.

All I can say, is "Just give me a chance."

Unlike so many of those on this list, who report sightings on an
almost daily basis, My only sighting was in Sept. 1967.

To share it:

"I was sitting on a stump in my front yard scanning the night
sky for anything which might appear to be a UFO.

Our town was in the middle of a UFO FLAP, and I had personally
investigated a double sighting by two different people on a
local farm, and also a landing in a soy beah field on another
farm on the opposite end of the county.

The night sky was completely overcast.  Temp about 68 degrees.
Wind, light estimate 5 - 7 mph.  No lightning... no rain... The
time was approximately 8:45 PM.

Suddenly I observed a white traingle of light, at approximately
40 - 45 degreese above the western horizon, moving from north to
south.

I stood and watched the 'object' thinking to myself that it
appeared to be a B-58 Hustler Bomber.  Yet I did not hear any
sound.

As I observed the object, it suddenly made a graceful 90 deg.
turn and approached me head on.  I still thought it was a
conventional aircraft at this point.

As it approached the house across the street from me,
approximately 50 feet away, two things happened.  1.  The man
who lived there exited his house, walked to his car, opened the
trunk and placed a carton of soft drink bottles therein.  Got in
his car and drove slowly away. 2. The object(s) crossed the top
of his house and moved silently directly above me.  As it
approached the house, I could see that it was not a conventional
aircraft at all, but 7 independent objects, each approximately
1/4 inch in diameter at arms length.

The lead object was half disk shapped and the three on either
side were oval shaped.  Evenly spaced, approximately 1/4 inch
apart.

They were in a perfect -V- formation.  As they passed directly
overhead, I could see that the clouds passed beneath their
structures.  The were flourscent white in color and did not
blink. You could see the clouds streaking beneath them.

They were completely silent.  I later learned that the cloud
ceiling was 2,000 feet.

As they passed overhead, I turned to the east to continue
observing them.  As they reached the elevation of 75 - 80
degrees, the lead object pivoted 45 deg on axis and at the same
time, the entire right side of the - V - did also.  Perfect
unison of motion.  At the same moment, the formation, now an
inverted - L - in shape, S-L-I-D 90 deg to the left, without any
noticed reduction in speed.  The formation remained in this
configuration for approximately 10 deg. of arc and then the left
side of the formation pivoted to the right, again in perfect
unison, and returned the formation to it's origional position.

The formation then continued North, back in the direction from
which it origionated at the time I first observed it.  It
disappeared in the darkness of the overcast night sky.

This sighting, from the first moment I became aware of it until
it disappeared from my sight, covered 180 deg. of arc and
covered an estimated distance of three miles from where I first
observed it in the north west sky, to my position and beyond, in
approximately 30 seconds.

While I was extreemely excited, I was able to keep myself
composed and pay attention to what was occurring around me.

I had though to shout to my neighbor, and point the objects out
to him, but I thought that if I did, I might loose sight of them
in the night sky and not be able to locat them again.

So, I know what it is like to have an opportunity to verify what
I was seeing with another witness, but for my own fear.

In those days, I was only 23 years old, and didn't have the
equipment I do today.  However, I went directly into my house
and told my wife about what I had seen and immediately wrote it
down in a journal.

Well, Jim, that is it... My only sighting.  In the years since
then, I have investigate sightings after the fact and talked to
many witnesses, first hand.  Yet, even though I have logged over
a million miles doing this investigation, on sight, I have yet
to witness another sighting.

My key word, is not nervous, but FRUSTRATED! <G>

REgards, Mike

P.S.  Please excuse any spellign errors and mis-typed words. <G>


  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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   Jan > Jan 28

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:44:24 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:15:44 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:17:00 -0800
 >From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:22 -0500
 >>From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
 >>>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>><<snip>

 >>>>Once I had created the head with eyes I needed to insert the
 >>>>eyeballs. In 3D it is always easier to create a ball which fits
 >>>>within the head. An eyeball that size would not only be too big
 >>>>to fit in the skull they are also too close together (they cross
 >>>>each other at the bridge of the nose).

 >>><snip>

 >>>>Any explanations for the impossibly large eyes would be of
 >>>>interest.

 >>Brian wrote:

 >>>I have one which I don't necessarily endorse.  But I have read
 >>>it in more than one abductee comment, either printed or
 >>>appearing here:  the huge "eyes" are really lens coverings,
 >>>like, say, built-in sunglasses or night-vision optics.  These
 >>>"lenses" are thin; the true eyes underneath are smaller than the
 >>>lenses.

 >>>So I've read anyway.

 >>>For what its worth ...

 >>Hi Brian, hi All,

 >>Mr. C I have a "what came first, the chicken or the egg" type
 >>question for you. Do you know if any of these 'eye covering'
 >>accounts precede the Alien Autopsy film? It would be interesting
 >>to know if there was an increase in reports which include the
 >>'sunglasses' detail -after- the film was released.

 >The references from witnesses that the large eye area is a
 >covering, for me anyway, come from reports I have read that
 >predate the AA by a few too many years.

 >Its an old concept that has been suggested by many, but far from
 >all the witnesses.

 >Often it is when they have been 'stared into' that they suspect
 >there is something artificial about the eyes.

 >Admittedly it was usually said to try and account for the
 >experience they had when stared at by one of the, usually
 >taller, beings.  And as I recall some said it was just a feeling
 >they got.

 >Hardly evidence that it is in fact built in sunglasses, but
 >while not always accurate, human 'sensing' is often right!

 >Lesley

Dear Listers, this is merely a general comment, one not directed
at Lesley or Harry or anyone in particular, except you.  And you
know who you are.

Key words here folks is "stare."  Once you've been stared at
by one of these critters who are especially adept at it, it's like
the "Mind Meld" only more.  The entity gets up really close
and stares at you.  Nose to nose and farhead to farhead, this
action causes you to have the emotions the entity wants to
elicit, the physical feelings he (she or it) wants you to have
and that includes a sexual response and last, the entity may
cause you to remember what never really happened and plant
that memory as being real.  It can cause you to recall that
which it wants you to recall.

It ain't no fun because on one level, you know what is happening
and cannot do a thing about it.

It's about control.  Yours.  Namely it ain't.  And during those
times, just like the times (and they've been few for me) when
one is witness to a sighting of a UFO, without apparent
abduction, you are fixed in place, unable to do much of
anything.  Most especially that which under normal conditions,
you would do, you won't do in that state.

It's almost as if everything, including time, stops right then
and there.

Now, Mr. Randle and Mr. Klass and Mr. or Ms. Whomever, go ahead
and tell me it never happened.  Tell me I'm gay, or that I am
having a waking dream or one of those sleep disorder thingies,
sleep paralysis or whatever.

Then, when I laugh or otherwise react in anger, you won't mind
all that much.  One thing is certain however, that those of you
who know squat about what you are talking about can still do so
with a straight face, as if you had all the answers.  To an
abductee or to a witness, it all sounds so lame it isn't funny.
In fact, it's pathetic.  Try harder folks.  You ain't there yet.
Hell, you ain't even close.

Jim Mortellaro









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   Jan > Jan 28

                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:52:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:17:42 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Re: The Eyes Have It

 >From: Dave Bowden
 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:16:43 +0000
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:32:38 -0500
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


Hi, Dave!

Have you considered that each eye of the alien might me an
"array" much like the eyes of a fly? Since witnesses indicate a
lack of visible pupil, perhaps each eye is made up of hundreds
or thousands of individual "tiny eyes" that rotate in unison.
Together, they might give the appearance of a solid, deep black
shiny surface when in reality there are a multitude of imaging
units designed to work together or, perhaps, independently.
There is no reason to believe that they would need to have eyes
that operate along the same optic principles that humans do. Who
knows, maybe these black patches send and receive signals like a
bat might? Just fun thoughts....

I'm a graphic artist, also. You might need to think outside the
box a little more on this one!  :)

Take care,

Roger Evans








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   Jan > Jan 28

                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:40:18 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:23:04 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:49 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:23:09 -0500
 >Subject: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

<snip>

 >From: Mike Farrell <vidhunter@hotmail.com>
 >Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:02 AM
 >Subject: 60% of Abductees are GAY!(not that there's anything wrong with
 >that:->)

 >The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia -
 >http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new

<snip>

 >"The Abduction Enigma" The Truth behind the mass alien
 >abductions of the late 20th century. by Kevin D.  Randle, Russ
 >Estes, and William P.  Cone, PHD.

<snip>

 >Here are a few random quotes that jumped out at me from this new
 >book: (my comments & questions follow in parenthesis)

 >1) "Most abduction researchers routinely withhold specific
 >information from the public as a way of cross-checking the
 >validity of an abduction story. These 'secret clues', when
 >mentioned by someone claiming abduction, provide some validation
 >for the new tale." (pg.59)

One of these 'secret clues', according to MUFON's John
Carpenter, is apparently the fact that many aliens are reported
by witnesses to have three fingers, often with suction cups on
the ends.  In a report in the Journal of UFO Studies about a
double abduction several years ago he reported this and the fact
that at a closed conference of leading abduction researchers
they had spent some time on this subject, excitedly comparing
notes.

I think a review of 20th Century science fiction movies and
books ought to be in order for anyone serious about this
subject.  Three fingered Martians used to be a stape in
cartoons.  Wasn't the Martian in the classic War of the Worlds
movie three-fingered, with a suction cup at the end.  This also
was a feature of ET in the movie of the same name.

Those who are not aware of the influence of science fiction are
doomed to repeat - or create - this data that they think they
are collecting.

Any other examples that anybody knows about?

Clear skies,
Bob Young









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                Cydonian Imperative: Questions for Debunkers

From: Mac Tonnies <Alintelbot@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 01:51:29 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:27:21 -0500
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Questions for Debunkers


Questions That Beg Explanations if Skeptics are to Maintain Null
Hypothesis

by Mac Tonnies

The verdict is still out on the possible artificiality of the
Cydonian anomalies.  Unfortunately, the false "conclusion" that
the Face, etc. are natural has been pronounced and flaunted so
many times since the MGS acquired its three images that there is
little or no productive dialogue.  Typically, Cydonia
"believers" tend to dwell on increasingly speculative scenarios
regarding who built the Martian pyramids and why (when we don't
know if they are in fact artificial) while self- called
"skeptics" endlessly deride the issue without a shred of proof
to back up their rather sweeping claims.

The following are some glaring questions that need to be
answered if the debunkers are to continue their zealous support
of the "null hypothesis" (i.e. "there's nothing to it," "it's
just rocks," etc.)  Frankly, I'm very curious as to the
purported evidence used to arrive at the "null" conclusion, as
none of it has been forthcoming.

1.) Plausible geomorphological explanations need to be put forth
that explain the reinforcing geometry of the 16 Mound features,
originally discovered and analyzed by Drs. Stanley McDaniel and
Horace Crater.  Computer analysis shows that the highly
repetitive and symmetric layout of the mounds is nonrandom;
indeed, the chances of such an arrangement being the result of
natural forces is _less than one percent_.  This certainly
implies intelligent design, while not proving it.

Critics of the Artificiality Hypothesis should be able to either
offer a geological mechanism that produces demonstratably
_nonrandom_ surface features.  This has not, to my knowledge,
been attempted.

2.) Nonfractality of notable features such as the Face needs to
be explained in strictly geological terms.  As with the Mounds,
this is not a matter of trivial "seeing what you want to see";
the Face (for example) is glaringly nonfractal compared to
neighboring, natural- looking mesas.  [The fractality, or
"naturalness," of a given surface feature is determined by
computer; it is not a subjective phenomenon.]

The only argument against the Face's potential artificiality yet
to be offered is "it doesn't look like a Face."  It has been
shown that the Face, when shown in proper orthorectification,
appears every bit as facelike as it did in the Viking photos (or
at least the half imaged by the MGS; data describing the right
half is yet to be seen).

But even if the Face _didn't_ look like a face in the MGS photo,
it is still recognized as relatively un-natural by computers
(which aren't partial to "seeing faces" like humans).  While
relative nonfractality doesn't prove that a given feature is
artificial, it is still evidence worth dealing with.  By nature,
all landforms boast varying degrees of fractality.

But it is very strange indeed that a feature that looks
artificial to the human eye also appears unusual to a computer.

Skeptics have not dealt with this evidence with any semblance of
investigative rigor.  Until they do, the "burden of proof" (at
least re. this particular issue) rests with them.  Crying
"Coincidence!" does not suffice as any sort of conclusion that
the Face is natural.  Quite the opposite: In science, it is the
"coincidences" that usually demand a closer look!

3.) How can towering formations such as the Crater Pyramid form
right next to craters when faulting and "exotic crystal growth"
have been ruled out?  If the Cliff, for example, is a natural
formation, skeptics must show how it is possible for such a
feature to either

a.) survive a close-range meteor impact unscathed

or

b.) "assemble itself" out of subsequent impact ejecta.

As yet, no prosaic explanations for these formations (and others
like them) have been offered by skeptics, who find their
argument is much easier to support by pseudointellectual
flag-waving tactics.  Perhaps this is because none are
available.

4.) How does a ruler-straight formation of parallel reflective
rectangles (possibly ice) form?  There is certainly no analog
for such bizarre geomorphic behavior here on Earth, and even
mainstream arologists have expressed puzzlement over this one.
The feature mentioned above, I should note, was not visible on
the Viking photos.  Like the bilaterally centered "nostrils"
discovered on the Face, they strengthened the Artificiality
Hypothesis post-Viking.

As with exhibits One, Two and Three, skeptics need to put their
cards on the table with this one instead of simply hoping
interest in this odd and exciting region fades from public
consciousness.

####

These are four Cydonian mysteries that cry for an explanation.
There are more--many more.  Thankfully, science is not
predicated on majority opinion, but on reasoned and unbiased
thinking.  I extend my thanks to anyone who accepts this
challenge as the very real scientific mystery it is.

-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
*********Mars: The Cydonian Imperative*********

a newsletter devoted to the implementation of manned
Mars missions and the democratization of space science,
emphasizing the strange formations found in the Cydonia
Mensae region.  This list is not affiliated with any particular
Mars advocacy group.

"He runs after facts like a beginner learning to skate, who,
furthermore, practices somewhere where it is forbidden."
--Franz Kafka

To join or unsubscribe: email Mac Tonnies at alintelbot@aol.com.
Comments and questions are also welcome.

Useful websites (note that not all positions represented are
shared with the Cydonian Imperative):

Artemis Society: http://www.asi.org
Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.com
The Martian Enigmas:
http://www.psrw.com/~markc/marshome.html
Bigelow Aerospace: http://www.bigelow-aerospace.com
International Space Station:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/index.html
SpaceDev: http://www.spacedev.com
Mars: Mysteries of the Red Planet:
http://www.mufor.org/mars.html
Think Mars: http://www.thinkmars.net
CNI News: http://www.cninews.com
Cydonia 2000: http://welcome.to/cydonia/
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_










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   Jan > Jan 28

                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 02:19:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:51:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:07:06 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:09:10 -0800
 >>From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:02:17 -0800
 >>>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To Scientists
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >><snip>

 >>>Another thing. Why aren't all of you who profess these
 >>>sightings documenting them with video and 35 mm film shots?
 >>>Isn't it amazing how all of these sightings are either made by
 >>>those who don't have a camera of some kind available, or take
 >>>pictures of "lights" in the sky, which have no definition or
 >>>background by which to measure their density?

 >>>In todays climate, there is no excuse for not having a camera
 >>>with you at virtually any time. In your car, in your bag or
 >>>purse.

 >A lotta truth in them words. And some (in my opinion) silliness,
 >too.

Okay, I will be honest.  Looking back, I actually do feel a bit
silly that I didn't think of getting my camera, which was only
about 30 feet behind me. On the other side of the front door, in
the livingroom in the bottom shelf of a cabinet.  It never
corssed my mind.  I was numb and in shock and my mind going
nuts.  Having longed for a sighting, an honest one, for so many
years, and I mean since I was about 7 years old, to not even
think of my camera makes me feel a bit dumb.  My only excuse is,
in hindsight, my sighting only lasted for less than a minute and
if I had turned my head and run back into the house, I would
have missed the most incredible part of the sighting - the big
gold light broke up into four equal parts on a horizontal line,
and all, together now, moved up a short distance and
disappeared. I Hadn't even got my chin back in place and it was
over.

 >I say these things because I am not easily intimidated by
 >strange flying objects.

And to be honest, after all the reading and fascination - I
think I honestly thought I would not be either!!!

 >But this huge triangular beast got me so excited I fumbled
 >everything I tried to do. Couldn't find my Camcorder, couldn't
 >find my binoculars, couldn't find my telescope and damned if all
 >those items were hanging _on_ my telescope which was located
 >immediately inside my terrace doors, the doors I had to go
 >through in order to view this object.

I guess if it had been a longer sighting (I have no idea how
long it was there before I went outside) I will, sheepishly
admit, I bet I would have been just as useless fumbling with my
camera.  I took photography way back when we pros (I was a
reporter) never used automatic cameras (they were pretty new
back then) and I guess the distrust is still embedded in me - I
think first about what settings I should use, analyse available
light conditions, then bracket to be sure.  I doubt I would have
gotten a shot if it was posing for me!

 >etc., etc., etc. And by the way, I was continually screaming for
 >my wife to come out on the terrace. She never heard me.

My husband was on the other side of  the closed front door,
about six feet or so.  I was in so much shock in those moments,
I couldn't have screamed for help if it was firing on me.  And
that is annoying and always will be. He does not share my
enthusiasm or interest and I'm not sure he is a believer, but he
would never argue with me on the subject.  If only there had
been enough time, if only I had been calm, maybe I could have
yelled and maybe he would have heard me and come out and seen it
himself.  He's an electrical engineer.  He made no comment at
all when I told him what I had seen.  I'm sure he thought and
still does, that it was a misidentification of a plane
headlights or something equally stupid.  Or he would comment
that I should have had my reading glasses..... a favourite joke
of his.

 >But to say "I have no intention of being prepared!" or words to
 >that effect, is also silly. I now carry that camcorder all the
 >time. I also carry a throw away camera and an audio tape
 >recorder, one of those pocket types.

I was tempted.  But the second time I saw that big light a few
months later, in fact two of them.  Sightings that were
eventually cofnirmed by others who had also seen the light/s
over a two month period but who were reporting it to a french
radio station so I didn't hear of their sightings until well
after they were long gone.  That time, I was driving on a two
lane paved highway, at 70 km per hour and there are no street
lights out in the country and as it was, I nearly crossed the
centre line a couple of times trying to keep my eyes on the
lights in case they broke up into pieces.  There was no way I
could have safely grabbed a camera even if it had been on the
seat beside me.  And with gravel shoulders on the road, you are
careful how and at what speed you pull onto them.

 >A few DAYS ago, I had ample opportunity to use all of them
 >again. I did not. I was in my car, so was my wife, and the rest
 >of the family was nearby. I never even thought of reaching over
 >to get the camera.

I envy you.  Not just my husband, but adult son and daughter
love me, but think my interest is a bit weird.  If we all say
something together, it would certainly boost my credibility
rating with them all!  Camera or no!

Its been a few years now, and hopefully if it ever happens
again, and I am outside the house, I will have the time and
prsence of mind to get the camera.  One of the reasons I loved
moving out to the country from the city was I knew it could
potentially increase the possibility of seeing something.  It
did, then and nothing since!  But oh, if only just one more
time!


Lesley









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   Jan > Jan 28

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:15:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:02:01 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:22:58 -0800
 >From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Hi, Neil,

I wrote [inpart]:

 >>No, this doesn't mean that he now dismisses the AA "film" as a
 >>hoax, but let's try to keep the discussion on an even keel if we
 >>can.

You replied:

 >True Bob has backtracked a little from his original quoted
 >statement but as I read it he is still convinced the film is a
 >genuin historical document. His last posting at the end of 1999
 >to this group [ search for bob@bobshell.com on the UPDATES
 >archive to find it] confirms this stance.

I've had brief contact with him recently and he has echoed that
sentiment. He also believes that the "film" may show a race of
creatures that are not from another world, but from this one and
now residing in some "hidden" place [perhaps unerground].
Neither Philip Mantel nor Bob Shell have much faith in Ray
Santilli's believability at this point, and that is more my
point.

 >>When the fact that the sample pieces of film are actually dupes
 >>is brought up you respond:

 >>>Why don't you tell me why you find this so significant. If it
 >>>is copied, then it was copied in 1947 or thereabouts and since
 >>>all agree that there simply wasn't the technology to hoax the AA
 >>>at that time, then it must be legitimate. Isn't that what TDC
 >>>stated clearly on their web site. As I have said and will say

 >>>again, the nature of the film ie copied, not copied, original
 >>>duped and so forth is very confusing to most folks, not just me.
 >>>And you all continue to muddy the waters more by the way you
 >>>argue your case. If it is a copy, how does that work into the
 >>>whole story and why is that so damaging. If Ray was fooled into
 >>>buying a copy, so what? Did the cameraman hoax Ray? How did he
 >>>put this all together? Just give me some scenario that accounts
 >>>for how this all came down, some place where we can start to
 >>>unravel this mystery.

 >>The importance is that Ray's initial statements indicated that
 >>this was original film, and the fact that the pieces that he has
 >>forwarded to validate the AA "film" were obvious dupes.  Perhaps
 >>more significantly, the initial investigation by Saino indicated
 >>that the copier used to make the duplication was not available
 >>until the mid 50's, which puts a real crimp in the Cameraman's
 >>story.  Bob has indicated that he believes and earlier copier
 >>would leave the same markings, but admitted that Saino's
 >>research was both valid and important in our effort to seek the
 >>truth.  Bob now has two snippets of film supplied by Ray, and
 >>has no reason to believe that either have any relation to the AA
 >>"film" (except that they all come from Ray).

 >The "camera original" film would have been NEGATIVE stock, ALL
 >the projection stock would have been duped from neg at the time,
 >unless the cameraman was into reversal processing which I doubt

 >for copying reasons, my point being, by "original" I suggest he
 >was technically including the 1st Generation Positive prints,
 >after all in July 1995 this was his list of films received from
 >the cameraman:

 >20 reels POSITIVE SAFTY PRINT.
 >1  reel scrap
 >1  reel NEG

 >Out of his 22 reels only the 1 reel of NEG may have been "camera
 >original".

 >A further reason for Ray's reluctance to provide film for
 >authentication may also be traced down to around that date, in
 >Oct 1995 on the French TF1 channel show about the AA film, Ray's
 >financial backer Volker Speilberg was tracked down and "briefly"
 >spoken to, it couldn't be termed interviewed. At THAT time he
 >claimed _he_ now had all the film safely under lock and key.
 >
 >What Ray hasn't got, he cannot supply for testing.

Neil, you and I have been following this from the first (as have
many others who remain silent in the background on this list).
This is a complex matter that has involved numerous twists and
turns, which most researchers have simply given up on because
they don't appear to lead anywhere.

Part of the confusion that still bedevils us today relates to
Ray's simplistic answers to questions that were incomplete and
often inaccurate. It would appear that he had no idea what or
who he was dealing with, and the importance of his comments.
This IMO shows that he was naive, not a hoaxer, but some will
interpret it differently.

I would merely point out that when we are trying to deal with
established (and provable) facts, we have very few to deal with.
Whatever the reason, Ray's comments have waffled from time to
time and his credibility is as a result suspect.  That,
unfortunately, will taint every piece of evidence that flows
from him, including the provenance of the "film" (i.e. the
Cameraman's story, etc.).  I have a copy of the French program
you mention, and found the Spielberg segment interesting.
Unfortunately, I don't speak French and I'm not sure how you
could even verify (at least in a legal sense) that the comments
were actually from Spielberg.  Even then, there was no real
comment about the "film" and only some vague acknowledgement of
a relationship between the two. [As I recall, Volker didn't want
to be contacted and either spoke to the reporter by phone or
through a door and only about a dozen words were passed back and
forth].

 >>If you aren't prepared to hold a "technical" discussion, then
 >>how are you going to discuss specifics?  I'm certainly not that
 >>technical either, but I have at least paid attention when others

 >>have posted their arguments and try to understand them.  Several
 >>researchers have taken the "film" apart piece by piece and
 >>anaylyzed it to the ground, and you could probably find an
 >>argument to support the fact that it's a film transfer if you
 >>tried hard enough.  But to what end?

 ><snip>

 >Again, back in 1995 Bob Shell asked MIT to evaluate
 >the video transfer of the AA film, they concluded it was 16mm
 >film shot at 24fps transfered to European(uk) PAL standards
 >25fps(50frames/sec/interlaced)and then transfered to the
 >US NTSC 30fps (30frames/sec/interlaced) standard.

 >Neil.

Indeed.  This issue had been dealt with early on, and I think
those who raise the transfer issue now were simply unaware of
the earlier research. There is also the issue of whether or not
the original was shot in "sound" or "silent" mode, which would
affect the fps rate, and I believe that Bob had done some work
in that area as well.

My problem with this discussion is that the picture is far more
complicated than we can view in small snippets here on UPDATES.
Quoting any comment in support of some contention may not
include other statements that could impact its validity in that
context, which serves to complicate this facet of the genre.

We have a lot of research into various factors related to the
"film", but what have we actually proven?  My own feeling is
that we should put our efforts elsewhere until we have something
new to investigate, and that relies on cooperation from either
Ray or Volker.  That seems unlikely at this point.

Steve









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   Jan > Jan 29

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:06:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:56:35 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:02 -0400
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:29:52 -0800
 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:42:28 -0400
 >>>To: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>It could have been sitting on some shelf in Hollywood or
 >>>elsewhere for a long long time. Ray then becomes somebody taking
 >>>advantage of public interest and gullibility.

 >>Stan,

 >>Where is your evidence for this? I have mentioned this to you
 >>before...I defend and admire your research but you are doing to
 >>Ray exactly what others have done and continue to do to you. You
 >>have no proof for your statements. Yes the AA could have been
 >>made on the moon but let's stick with what seems probable or
 >>plausible. Even if it had been sitting on a shelf somewhere for
 >>years, it seems logical that we would be able to account for the
 >>manufacturing process that created the debris. How do you
 >>explain the debris and its unfamilar characterists? When you
 >>read the debris analysis (don't tell me you didn't bother)
 >>didn't you see similarities between it and the Roswell debris
 >>ie. lack of mass, durability, not flamable? If you can't explain
 >>the debris in some intelligent manner, then don't you think its
 >>reasonable to take another look at the AA?

 >Where has any connection been shown between the debris and
 >Roswell? In my 1979 movie "UFOS ARE Real" (available at 15$ Post
 >paid, from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958) The artist
 >created a scene with a rancher holding a large beam similar to
 >the one in Ray's debris scene. It was wrong. The I beams were
 >always described by Dr. Marcel as 3/8" or so high. Strange
 >markings were shown too, made up by the artist. .What possible
 >basis is there for saying anything about the durability or
 >flamability?? I haven't seen test results. Is the material
 >available for test or is this all inference from looking at the
 >footage? I know of a very good forensic testing lab....


Stan and All,

Are we not deliberatly limiting ourselves here?, what Dr Marcel
saw that night was only a very small sample of the debris
recovered by his father and Cavett, and very possibly not
representative at all of the debris as a whole,

Two vehicles were used on that trip out to the Foster Ranch, Maj
Marcel's blue family Buick and an AAF Coverall Jeep that Cavett
drove. Marcel's Buick with it's leather seats etc would hardly
be a usefull transport vehicle for assorted items of raw debris
recovered from the NM desert, Dr Marcel recalls other boxes on
the back seat when he helped his father reload the car that
night, and also thinks some other debris was in the trunk, so
Maj Marcel didn't even bring all the debris he was carrying back
to base into his home that night, there seems to be no way to
confirm that the types and sizes of debris seen by Dr Marcel
were in any way a representative sample of the debris out at the
site. And boxed debris would by it's nature be selected to
comfortably fit the size of box it was in, It's interesting to
note that Maj Marcel had the forsight to take a number of
cardboard boxes along out to the site.

There seems to be resonably good documentary evidence in
statements originating from Sheriff Wilcox's office, while he
was still talking to the press, that far larger pieces of debris
had been recovered or were still out at the site, descriptions
of debris "as large as the jail's safe" (quoted at 3'x4'x3')
crop up in the early wireservice messages.

So what then did Cavett bring back in his Jeep?, a vehicle far
more suited to transporting debris of all shapes and sizes
rather than boxed up on the back seat and trunk of a family car.

Just a few thoughts.

Neil.


--
*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *
Neil Morris.       /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\
Dept of Physics.   1                                                 1
Univ of Manchester 0                                                 0
Schuster Labs.     1  Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES  1
Brunswick St.      0                                                 0
Manchester.        1                                                 1
UK.                \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/
G8KOQ


              E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
Dave Willetts Home Page->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/
Mike Sterling Home Page->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/
Tim Morgan Home Page   ->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/

*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *








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   Jan > Jan 29

                                 Debris Film

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:39:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:59:53 -0500
Subject: Debris Film


I know a lot of you have heard enough with regards to the alien
autopsy film, but one section of the film that has gone largely
unnoticed is the so-called 'debris film'.

I have not heard of any FX artists comment on it, language
experts, engineers etc, other than Dennis Murphy and Adriano
Forgione.

There are those who belive that the 'glyphs' depicted on the
debris film spell out 'VIDEO TV' but in reality if you used this
translation they would in fact spell out 'VIDEO O TV'.

Many years ago I sent copies of the stills from the film to two
museums in Britain, neither of which could identify them.

I was therefore cuious to know what others think of this section
of film and whether or not those experts listed above have
indeed commented on it.

I would be most interested to hear what you have to say
regarding the debris film.


Many thanks,


Philip Mantle









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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:01:52 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:02:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:34:26 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:11:44 -0500
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

<snip>

 >The night sky was completely overcast.  Temp about 68 degrees.
 >Wind, light estimate 5 - 7 mph.  No lightning... no rain... The
 >time was approximately 8:45 PM.

 >Suddenly I observed a white triangle of light, at approximately
 >40 - 45 degrease above the western horizon, moving from north to
 >south.

 >I stood and watched the 'object' thinking to myself that it
 >appeared to be a B-58 Hustler Bomber.  Yet I did not hear any
 >sound.


 >As I observed the object, it suddenly made a graceful 90 deg.
 >turn and approached me head on.  I still thought it was a
 >conventional aircraft at this point.

<snip>

 >As it approached the house, I could see that it was not a
 >conventional Aircraft at all, but 7 independent objects, each
 >approximately 1/4 inch in diameter at arms length.

 >The lead object was half disk shaped and the three on either
 >side were oval shaped.  Evenly spaced, approximately 1/4 inch
 >apart.

 >They were in a perfect -V- formation.  As they passed directly
 >overhead, I could see that the clouds passed beneath their
 >structures.  The were fluorescent white in color and did not
 >blink. You could see the clouds streaking beneath them.

 >They were completely silent.  I later learned that the cloud
 >ceiling was 2,000 feet.

 >As they passed overhead, I turned to the East to continue
 >observing them.  As they reached the elevation of 75 - 80
 >degrees, the lead object pivoted 45 deg on axis and at the same
 >time, the entire right side of the - V - did also.  Perfect
 >unison of motion.  At the same moment, the formation, now an
 >inverted - L - in shape, S-L-I-D 90 deg to the left, without any
 >noticed reduction in speed.  The formation remained in this
 >configuration for approximately 10 deg. of arc and then the left
 >side of the formation pivoted to the right, again in perfect
 >unison, and returned the formation to it's original position.

 >The formation then continued North, back in the direction from
 >which it originated at the time I first observed it.  It
 >disappeared in the darkness of the overcast night sky.

 >This sighting, from the first moment I became aware of it until
 >it disappeared from my sight, covered 180 deg. of arc and
 >covered an estimated distance of three miles from where I first
 >observed it in the North west sky, to my position and beyond, in
 >approximately 30 seconds.

Mike:

Did you try to determine, by contacting local airports, etc., if
aircraft were involved?  What was the date and location? Except
for your estimate of 30 seconds for the sighting, this seems
suspiciously like a group of ultralights. I was once fooled by
such a formation flying in twilight. Were there lights on the
objects?  Could you list your specific reasons for thinking that
these were not aircraft?

Clear skies,

Bob Young









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   Jan > Jan 29

                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:35:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:07:07 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:40:18 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:49 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:23:09 -0500
 >>Subject: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

 >>From: Mike Farrell <vidhunter@hotmail.com>
 >>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:02 AM
 >>Subject: 60% of Abductees are GAY!(not that there's anything wrong with
 >>that:->)

 >>The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia -
 >>http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new

 >I think a review of 20th Century science fiction movies and
 >books ought to be in order for anyone serious about this
 >subject.  Three fingered Martians used to be a stape in
 >cartoons.  Wasn't the Martian in the classic War of the Worlds
 >movie three-fingered, with a suction cup at the end.  This also
 >was a feature of ET in the movie of the same name.

 >Those who are not aware of the influence of science fiction are
 >doomed to repeat - or create - this data that they think they
 >are collecting.

 >Any other examples that anybody knows about?

And speaking of examples, I would say the above is about as
succinct a statement of the problem of not wanting to think very
hard about the abduction phenomenon, or of throwing the feeblest
of pseudoexplanations at it.  Eddie Bullard puts it well (The
UFO Encyclopedia, second edition, page 22):

"Standards of evidence grow lax among sociocultural theorists
who satisfy themselves with the discovery of antecedents.
Shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief, science fiction,
and movie imagery, these theorists bring home endless analogies
of dubious worth. Fairylore and witchcraft beliefs contain many
motifs comparable to abduction content, at least on some level
of abstraction, but motifs broken off from their related
traditions mean little. The mere fact that Egyptians and Mayans
build structures in pyramidal shape cannot prove that one
culture influenced another, but sociocultural theorists would
have us believe that the mere existence of some obscure
science-fiction story proves the cultural origin of any
abduction content that bears even a slight resemblance."

I don't pretend to know what the abduction phenomenon is or is
not -- frankly, the whole issue just confuses me -- but of one
thing I am certain: it doesn't answer to glib solutions of the
sort proposed here.  No wonder "skeptics" have such a
credibility crisis.

Jerry Clark










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                           New Images from Mexico

From: Dan Geib <geibdan@qtm.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:10:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:09:02 -0500
Subject: New Images from Mexico


For those interested

I recently received new OVNI photos taken during the eclipse I
have them posted under Current News - January 2000 and The Want
to See a UFO Section at:

UFO Folklore !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html


A Portal to Magic Shows & Acoustic Music
Entertainment in Michigan. Guitarist / Magician
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan



Dan's Magic in Michigan !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/magician

Dantronix !
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/testwave.html









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Neil Morris <Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:11:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:13:19 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:13:07 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 02:50:51 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:53:26 -0600
 >>>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >(sorry, EBK. I promised I'd let this drop, but I can't let this
 >nonsense go unchallenged...)

Mmmmm... dare I day Ditto.....

 >Previously, I had written:

 >>>Gee, Ed. Make up your mind. On the one hand you maintain that
 >>>I'm dead wrong because the containment suit issue is nothing but
 >>>"hearsay"; on the other hand, you go to great lengths to try and
 >>>justify the improper usage that you just said didn't exist!

 >Regarding such containment suits, I suggest you check out an old
 >video called "The Doomsday Chronicles". Within it you will find
 >an official, U.S. government produced documentary about a
 >partial meltdown in Idaho Falls, Idaho in 1959 or 1960, I'm not
 >sure which. This government produced documentary clearly
 >demonstrates the proper usage of radiation and bio-hazard
 >containment suits as I described to you earlier; two layers,
 >self-contained air and all joints taped shut. AA clearly
 >violates all these protocols. In fact, the AA suits look more
 >like fire fighting rescue gear to me.

What relevance has this to events _13_years_ earlier?, other
than 17 yrs worth of hindsight put into practice.

At the time of the alleged AA film's events, 1947, there was no
commercial nuclear industry, the world first nuclear reactor had
only been built and run just over 4 years previous (CP-1 Dec 2nd
1942), it would be 1954 before the worlds first nuclear sub and
1955 before the first US town was fed with nuclear produced
electricity (Arcos ID 1955) from a still experimental BWR
reactor. In 1947 these reactors were still just very big Lab
experiments, even the ones producing the raw materials for the
"bombs".

 >Moving on, Ed had written:

 >>I don't know why the doctors were wearing the suits or if they
 >>were wearing them in the proper manner. Since its the only
 >>historical fact that seems to be out of place, I suggested other
 >>reasons that could explain why.

 >Of course, Ed. Any reason is possible to you other than the
 >obvious; that the producers of the AA film screwed up.

 >Ed, this illustrates why this debate with you goes nowhere.
 >Every time someone rises to the challenge you make regarding
 >evidence, you simply discount such evidence as an anomaly or
 >mistake. The containment suit issue is one example; following is
 >another:

 >You challenged San Friedman to produce the "lies" that Ray had
 >told him which he easily did in another post. Following is your
 >response:

 >>I think Ray's "lies" could be taken a number of ways....

 >Tell, us Ed. Just how many ways can a lie be taken? Or is this
 >like the containment suit issue? Ray didn't lie; he was simply
 >mistaken, right?

Let's be brutally honest here, Ray _has_ lied, changed his lies
and then expanded on those lies yet again!, but then he's in the
movie industry so what's new about that sort of behaviour there.
(not meant as a slur just against the film industry alone,I have
friends in the theare industry and _it's_ just the same, watch
your back for the knives!)

But no matter how many times you verbally abuse Ray Santilli it
doesn't change the content of the film by one frame, all you are
doing is killing the messanger, if it's bad news he's given you
you're still stuck with the same bad news.

 >Moving on I wrote:

 >>>Orderly's are not used in the operating room
 >>>under any condition. Operating rooms are restricted to vital
 >>>personal only. And just how much "dissection" did you see while
 >>>working in the ER, Ed?

 >You replied:

 >>I worked (as an orderly) at two hospitals in Albuquerque NM while I was
 >>attending school at UNM.

 ><snip>

 >>The AA doctors sure acted and looked like
 >>doctors to me.

 >I do not doubt that you were an orderly. I do seriously doubt
 >that any doctor would choose an orderly over a trained nurse to
 >assist during an operation. Orderlies are not used in O.R.
 >during surgery. Nurses are. You are neither a nurse or a doctor.
 >As an orderly, you were around doctors but I do not believe for
 >an instant that you ever assisted them with a single surgery.
 >Therefore, your knowledge of standard surgical procedures would
 >be severely limited. Of course, I guess this is just another one
 >of your "anomalies" where standard protocol was ignored. Glad I
 >wasn't a patient in that hospital!

I'm not wanting to jump to Ed's defence here, I'm sure he's able
to do that for himself but unless _you_ have personal experiance
of operating room proceedures and protocol, you yourself are
gulty of the offence you accuse Ed of, except that _he_ does
claim to have personel experiance of PM operating room
proceedures.

Do you have such experiance?, so giving you firm ground on which
to base your comments.

I readily admit I do not, and am therefore not in any position
to pass judgement.

 >Regarding effects people reproducing the AA alien, Ed writes:

 >>So OK none have tried. I'll
 >>certainly agree to that since its what I intended to say in the
 >>first place. Why?.. because it�s probably impossible. I think
 >>they would have if they could have.

 >Why would they, Ed? For the glory? For the money? For the
 >satisfaction of proving Ray wrong? And what would it prove to
 >you anyway? Your fallback position would simply be that just
 >because they figured out how to do it doesn't mean that's how it
 >was done! This is illustrated by the following where you wrote:

 >>You state the AA could be a video; I concede but feel that you
 >>should offer some proof for this other than "Ray is in the music
 >>business"

 >Here is the problem as I see, Ed. You demand that everyone but
 >you spend time and resources to prove their case. Yet you do
 >nothing when presented with the evidence! You claim to be a
 >historian yet you do no research of any kind regarding the
 >containment suits. You claim to be searching for the truth yet
 >you continually misquote Bob Shell in an effort to support your
 >position. You demand technical evidence about the video yet,
 >obviously, you haven't bothered to check the video frame by
 >frame to even see if the evidence is really there! When people
 >go to great lengths to explain why it is important for the AA
 >film to be an original with the Alien on it you write:

Your own research re the suits seems only to have gone back to
1960 so what about 1947?. I can at least claim to have seen
"similar" designed suits in use by the AAF in 1945 and in a
"nuclear" related setting (the 509th bomb group).

??
Did Bob Shell tell an untruth when in 1995 he passed on the MIT
test results on the AA film/video which concluded _it_ _was_
shot on 24fps film and subsiquently transfered to Euro-PAL video
25fps.

The edited US NTSC versions, 30fps, were generated from the PAL
version not directly from the film.

Bear in mind that the conversion process is further complicated
as the TV standards are not straight "framerate" 25fps/30fps,
both systems use "interlacing" and actually scan at 50hz/60hz
only displaying either "odd" or "even" frame lines per frame
scan.

If you trawl through the archives I've no doubt you'll find the
discussions about repeat/dropped frames and artifacts that
people were spotting and counting at the time, they were
particularly noticable on the NTSC copy!.

And I have looked through the _full_ raw footage
(PAL-video)frame by frame.


Sorry Guy's but I had to put my 2d's worth in here.

Neil.

--
*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *
Neil Morris.       /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\
Dept of Physics.   1                                                 1
Univ of Manchester 0                                                 0
Schuster Labs.     1  Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES  1
Brunswick St.      0                                                 0
Manchester.        1                                                 1
UK.                \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/
G8KOQ


              E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive-> http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
Dave Willetts Home Page->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/
Mike Sterling Home Page->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/
Tim Morgan Home Page   ->   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/

*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:15:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:15:38 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:13:07 -0600
To: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Regarding such containment suits, I suggest you check out an old
 >video called "The Doomsday Chronicles". Within it you will find
 >an official, U.S. government produced documentary about a
 >partial meltdown in Idaho Falls, Idaho in 1959 or 1960, I'm not
 >sure which. This government produced documentary clearly
 >demonstrates the proper usage of radiation and bio-hazard
 >containment suits as I described to you earlier; two layers,
 >self-contained air and all joints taped shut. AA clearly
 >violates all these protocols. In fact, the AA suits look more
 >like fire fighting rescue gear to me.

And you expected me to know this?  The AA was shot in 1947, not
1959 or 1960.  You must understand that.  Is this your evidence
that the AA is a fraud?..you've got to be kidding.  Things
change, including protocols. You must do better than that.

this reasoning, if the AA doctors did wear their hazard suits
as was shown in the Doomsday Chronicles, you'd be able to yell:
The AA is a fake.  It must have gotten the idea for the suits
from the "Doomsday Chronicles".  They wore their suits the same
way and this was 1960, not 1947, and these protocols weren't
adopted by the AF until 1957!!! (Applause...you confidently nod,
"It's nothing..all in a day's work for a skeptic"...more
applause..fade)

 >Ed, this illustrates why this debate with you goes nowhere.
 >Every time someone rises to the challenge you make regarding
 >evidence, you simply discount such evidence as an anomaly or
 >mistake. The containment suit issue is one example

No you're mistaken.  I try to keep issues open and not force the
evidence.  You do the opposite.  Besides, your questions may not
have conclusive answers, yet.  I'm trying to get folks to dig
into the AA as if it were something of value that needed to be
studied in a serious way.  I'm trying to counter your insistance
that it's a pile of crap and doesn't deserve further
consideration.

 >You challenged San Friedman to produce the "lies" that Ray had
 >told him which he easily did in another post.

I didn't "challenge" Stan.  I knew what his objections were.
Stan and I have written back and forth about the AA before.  I
find his arguments against the AA to be weak, at best.  I admire
him so his stand upsets me. I wanted the rest of the list to see
what Stan considered "lies".  I asked him to post them. I'm glad
he did.

 >Orderlies are not used in O.R. >during surgery. Nurses are. You
are neither a nurse or a doctor. >As an orderly, you were around
doctors but I do not believe for >an instant that you ever
assisted them with a single surgery. >Therefore, your knowledge
of standard surgical procedures would >be severely limited. Of
course, I guess this is just another one >of your "anomalies"
where standard protocol was ignored.

This was 1957-1959.  Hospitals were not as they are now. I did
exactly as I described.  As I said, during the PM shift, I was
the only male, besides male doctors, in the hospital. I preped
the males, carted them to surgery, put them on the OR table and
waited there until the surgery was complete. If they needed any
assistance (often there was only one nurse on duty, this was
PM.) I did what they asked. You are ignorant about these
matters.

I then took them back to the ward.  I was responsible for
preparing the body of any male who died during my shift and I
transported the body to the morgue.  I could have seen as many
autopsies as I wanted to but I didn't like the smell.  After
working the ER PM shift (surgery was done during the AM but
there was often surgery that came through the ER in the PM) for
three years in a big city hospital, you see just about
everything and autopsies were not high on my sightseeing list.


 >Why would they, Ed? For the glory?

YES
 >For the money?

FOR SURE
 >For the satisfaction of proving Ray wrong?

FOR SURE, FOR SURE!!

 >And what would it prove to
 >you anyway? Your fallback position would simply be that just
 >because they figured out how to do it doesn't mean that's how it
was done!

Bring me some proof and then we'll see how I react.  So far, no
proof. No proof, no "case closed".

 >You claim to be searching for the truth yet
 >you continually misquote Bob Shell in an effort to support your
 >position.

And where was that?

 >Ray happens to get a few, dark frames of old copy film showing
 >an empty room with a table on it. He thinks to himself,"Hey, if
 >I created an identical room and shot an alien autopsy in it, I
 >could sell the video and use these old frames of the empty room
 >to prove it's date and origin!"

So that's it?  That's all you have?

Ed









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                  Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:22:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility


Dear Listers, Michael, Lesely and Et., (aka, Dr. Al);

We all get our Ph.D.'s taken away with disgrace when
we look up, see the sight of the century, and forget to
take a picture.

This note is for all and is not about getting excited or
emotional with a sighting, it's about so many of you listers
over the few years I've been subscribing to Dr. the Kanappy
UpDates, wishing to be able to witness a UFO or (and in many
cases) even wishing you had an experience.

Truth.  I've spoken to many of you out there off line and in
person.  I've heard it said seldomly but felt it often, "Gee, I
wish I could be abducted" or "Gee, I wish I could witness a
UFO!"

Be careful.  You may get what you wish for.  And if it should
happen to you, you're stuck inside of Mobile, with the Memphis
blues, again.  You will no longer have any credibility left with
the skeptics crowd.  Not only that, but those who believe
inwardly will disbelieve outwardly just to be part of the
maddening crowd.

They will point and screech, "Lookit the maroon who _thinks_ he
saw a frying saucer....  hahahahahah!" The laughing can be
painful, most especially if you are a sensitive person, as I am.
I've learned to become angry at the buggers what come for me.
I've also learned to transfer that angst to those who would
debunk.

Oh no, Mo. Not the debunkers do I admonish, but their (many of
them) holier than thou attitude.  "Hah, you think you saw grays,
well, it was only Gray Poupon.  You think you saw a flying
saucer?  Well, it was some kid down the block tossing glowing
hubcaps across the sky at twice the speed of light in a vacuum.
You think you got took by aley ens? Well, you were just sleep
paralyzed."  On and on ad nauseum, ad absurdum.

We know they are full of tyrannosaurus poop.  They think they
are speaking ex cathedra.  Well, they are not.  They are merely
making damned fools of themselves for closing their minds. Just
the act of saying, "It cannot be, it isn't so," makes my blood
boil.  And at 2% Grippahol, that aint easy.

Truth be known, _It may not be so, or it may_ but for sure, you
don't know, and neither do I. So try, really hard, to just
accept the possibility that one of us may have the Motts.  And
until it's all over, if it ever shall be so in our life time,
then we will all know the truth.  And when that happens, there
will be a whole lot of sheepish faces out there.

Maybe not. Some people are hard to convince.  After all, not
every unbeliever is a Saint Thomas.  Some are Judas Priests.

Jim Mortellaro









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:07:31 +0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:31:22 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Hello list, hi Errol, everybody,

I just thought I'd de-lurk and add a few comments into this
discussion that everybody seems really tired of! Please forgive
me if I'm being redundant or if you've heard this before. : )

 >Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Yes that's what I said. No special effects expert has been able
 >to recreate the creature. Have they? Is there any place where I
 >said they tried and failed. Some may have but I don�t know if
 >that's a fact. All I know is that I haven�t seen any such
 >recreations. If there is some mistake in phrasing then I
 >apologize but it wasn�t intended. So OK none have tried. I'll
 >certainly agree to that since its what I intended to say in the
 >first place. Why?.. because it�s probably impossible. I think
 >they would have if they could have.

They can and they did, Mr Gehrman.

I've not even bothered researching this case very much, but know
of several special effects recreations of alien autopsies, some,
to my untrained eyes, very much more convincing than the blurry,
choppy and anachronistic AA film.

First that I can think of are the famous aliens from the Kyle
MacLachlan Roswell movie. That predates the AA footage by a
couple of years, but is still a valid example. Now, they didn't
hack those puppets up, but they exist as examples of
considerably more imaginitive and believable aliens than the
ones in the AA movie. And they were articulated! The AA corpse
is very stiff, and, dare I say it, rubbery.

Second, the same effects guy who made the Roswell movie aliens
did *another* alien corpse for ABC's 20/20 program after the AA
footage came out. This was a recreation to show how it could be
done. I believe the same guy did yet another recreation for
Scientific American. Very, very convincing footage which had
organ removal and examination procedures shown clearly and
accurately.

Twins FX Group in Quebec did a recreation of the AA film after
it came out. This was an extremely convincing colour recreation
of the AA movie with alien corpse, gore, organs, blood, the lot.
Identical to the AA film creature, but in focus! Cost? $2000.

There was a low budget German recreation for tv, too. This was
blurry black & white, but they did it all in one shot, unedited
takes. You should be aware, Mr Gehrman, that on the one hand the
edited AA film argues towards authenticity, and on the other
covers up a multitude of possible FX trickery during the filming
process. Mostly the latter, judging by the continuity. Somebody
else can cover that point, I'm sure.

The Brazillian tv show recreation that was alluded to by another
poster. This was very high quality, and was aired on live tv.
Again, another very convincing alien corpse with internal
organs, blood etc.

The Sci Fi channel's Roswell: Cover-ups and Close Encounters
show did yet another alien autopsy, mimicking the film quality
as well as the medical procedures.

The Discovery Channel's UFO's Down to Earth show did another
one, again with dissection procedures shown, internal organs,
etc.

The Millennium tv show did another alien autopsy, and the
X-Files had no less than *two* such autopsies during it's run!
Both were quite realistic for the medium.

Also, a UK FX artist mailed Fortean Times with a photo of a
recreated AA head - identical to the one in the film - to show
just how easy it was to create - and this was in the months
after the film came to light. Cliff Wallace of Creature Effects
in the UK expressed his opinion that the AA puppet was produced
somewhere in Britain, so maybe it was the original creator who
sent the image?

Anyway, not impossible to recreate by any means.

Some of this info I had to hand, some I gathered with an
internet search that took all of two minutes. I dare say I could
pull more examples if I had enough time.

This is not to say that the AA film is unconvincing, or that
these examples were _all_ better, just that they do exist, and
that it is eminently possible to recreate the AA footage with
quite cheap and established FX house techniques. Mr Gehrman
should have checked this before making any extreme claims, in my
opinion.

I was going to go on and list about six reasons why the
procedures shown in the AA footage, and it's duration as shown
by the clock, are inconsistent and anachronistic, but it's been
done before on oh so many websites, magazines, television shows
and papers that most researchers should be familiar with. I'm
also not touching Santilli's lies and fabrications, which have
been documented by others on the list.

It doesn't look good, Mr Gehrman.

Cheers, everyone!

C. D. Conrad
Perth, Western Australia










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                    New Energy in Debate Over Alien Life

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:33:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:33:53 -0500
Subject: New Energy in Debate Over Alien Life


New energy in debate over alien life
Radiation could spark Europan ecosystem, researcher says
By Alan Boyle, MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.com/news/362046.asp

Jan. 26 �  What form could life beyond Earth take, and where
could it exist? One study indicates that the radiation driven by
Jupiter�s magnetic field could fuel the minimum conditions for
life on Europa, an ice-covered moon. Other researchers argue
that organisms beyond Earth � on Europa or elsewhere � would
typically be no more complex than microbes.

Such discussions are opening a new chapter in the search for
extraterrestrial life, with astrobiology becoming a high-profile
scientific pursuit. Researchers are finding that earthly
organisms endure in the ice of Antarctica and the depths of the
ocean under conditions that were once thought positively hostile
to life, and that planet formation could be much more common
than previously thought.

When scientists also consider that liquid water, a key necessity
for life as we know it, just might exist beneath icy shells on
at least two of Jupiter�s moons � and could have existed on
ancient Mars as well � they are increasingly coming around to
the view that life could find a toehold somewhere within alien
environments.

What does it take for life to arise? One of the current points
of debate relates to how much energy is required to sustain the
kinds of biochemical reactions supporting living processes. On
Europa, for example, there�s no way the sun�s feeble rays could
penetrate the ice to fuel photosynthesis. And although deep-sea
volcanic vents could provide an alternative energy source, as
they do on Earth, there�s not yet any evidence that such vents
exist on Jupiter�s moons.

But in Thursday�s issue of the journal Nature, astrobiologist
Christopher Chyba of the SETI Institute argues that a hail of
charged cosmic particles, accelerated by Jupiter�s massive
magnetic field, could spark enough chemical reactions on
Europa�s icy surface to fuel an ecosystem in the brine below.

�There may well be lots of other energy sources that might be
used on Europa,� Chyba told MSNBC. But his aim was to see
whether life could be sustained using merely the mechanisms that
are known to exist on Europa.

FULL STORY AVAILABLE AT: http://www.msnbc.com/news/362046.asp

"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind."
eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog








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                       Marconi experiments in the 20's

From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:21:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:38:10 -0500
Subject: Marconi experiments in the 20's


Dear Members list,

I am researching for my PhD about "The Extraterrestrial
Imaginary in the Portuguese Press" and I found some news in our
papers reporting some commments of Guillermo Marconi to
American and British press, v.g. "New York Times" and "Daily
Mail" related to Mars and the "signs" that could be detected
from the Red Planet.

I am just verifying how was the Portuguese press reaction and
amplification of those claims and experiments, which took place,
if I am not wrong, from 1920 until 1924. The US Army had made
some atempts to get these signals, according the news.

If there is someone who could check these dates from their
clippings it could be give some clues for my day-by-day
follow-up on the papers.

I verify that Marconi was at the Azores Islands (in Horta city,
Faial Island, on a trip aboard his yatch "Ellectra" and stay
there a few days in May 1922 and returned in August.

The local press wrote that probably was sending some signs to
Mars when he was anchored at Faial Bay.

Who knows...

Greetings,

Joaquim Fernandes
University Fernando Pessoa
Porto
Portugal








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                          Sanskrit Scholars, Help!

From: Joeseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:04:35 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:40:44 -0500
Subject: Sanskrit Scholars, Help!


Dear Errol and List Members:

I need a little help with an ongoing story, and I don't have
access to either a Hindi or a Sanskrit dictionary up here at the
Head of the Lakes.

Does anybody know the meaning of either of these words?

      MINDAHLI    or    BINDAHLI

It sounds like something out of the Bhagavad Gita.  Anybody have
a clue?

Many thanks!

Joe Trainor








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                               Re: Get COMETA

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:09:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:44:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Get COMETA


I have now read the complete COMETA report. It is now available
in English from the Fund for UFO Research. If the Condon report
was high school, then the COMETA report is graduate school.
Those people really know how to think!

Get It. Read It.
GROK (understand) it.

And prepare for the eventualities!

COMETA recommends (for France) increasing the effort to
understand UFO sightings and implications, "so as to no longer
be blind, dumb and paralyzed......"

HaHaHaHaHaHa

Couldn't have said it better myself.








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                          Filer's Files #4 -- 2000

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:46:32 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:47:48 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #4 -- 2000


Filer's Files #04 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,   Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
January 28, 2000,  Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. -- Chuck Warren Webmaster.

THE AWAKENING THAT LIFE IS FROM SPACE

Each day the earth is bombarded by space dust, spores,
meteoroids, interplanetary particles, radiation, fireballs,
bolids, meteors, and meteoroids.  Some estimates indicate that
most if not all of the water on Earth came from space.
Periodically even large asteroids and comets find their way to
Earth.  Fortunately for us when a meteoroid strikes the Earth's
atmosphere, it loses some or all of its mass by ablation,
vaporization, sputtering and fragmentation.  The fragmented
pieces fall relatively gently to Earth.  Recent studies
indicate that bacteria and virus's may be able to survive this
ride through space and through our atmosphere.  Science has
come a long way since the 1800s, when the French National
Academy of Science conducted a study and concluded that the
entire phenomenon was an optical illusion.  Today about 500
reports a month are received indicating that Unidentified
Flying Objects are in our skies.  Most of these reports are
from multiple witnesses and well educated people who use the
Internet.  According to Dr. Don Johnson of some 100,000
sightings in the UFOCAT Study the highest number of reports
occur between 2 and 4:00 AM local time.  This indicates UFOs
operate when they are least likely to be seen by the public and
appear to move with the various time zones.  Additionally, our
satellites are also regularly picking up unidentified objects
that appear to be intelligently controlled.

Professor and Colonel Donald G. Carpenter's book,
"Environmental Space Sciences" taught at the Air Force Academy
appears to be correct when it states.  "From available
information, the UFO phenomenon may have been global in nature
for almost 50,000 years."  The book also discusses the
scientific study of UFOs conducted by the Battelle Memorial
Institute of 2,199 UFO reports.  The results of the study show
434 or 19.7% were unknowns, 240 or 11% had insufficient
information, 479 or 22% were astronomical, 813 or 37% were
aircraft or balloons, while 233 or 10.6% were others.  The of
664 'unknowns' and 'insufficient information' sightings add up
to the startling conclusion that 30.6% of the sightings are
likely to be UFOs.  That is almost a third of UFO reports
cannot be explained away even by a respected group of
scientists and engineers at Battelle.  Colonel Carpenter also
writes, "An exciting discovery revealed that the better the
quality of the report, the greater the probability that the
report will be classified as an unknown."  These finding agree
with my own observation of Eastern MUFON investigations.  I
have found that sightings over an extended period of time by
multiple and qualified witnesses were most likely to be
confirmed as UFOs.  The reports frequently state UFOs travel at
fantastic speeds with unbelievable maneuverability.  Their
characteristics show an advanced technology unlikely to be
ours.  Although, these sightings may represent an unknown
phenomenon, the evidence seems to point towards alien visitors.

If we are in fact being visited, the visitors come for a
reason.  Carl Sagan often noted one of the primary reasons to
visit and spread life to Earth would be some form of missionary
zeal.  Many abductees report a kind of religious awakening
after being in contact.  Others speculate the aliens are here
to farm for food, obtain water, refuel, and mine our minerals.
Later in these files we discuss some theories of what might be
happening based on the reports of brave people who have come
forward with their stories.  Each day you are bombarded with
information, I caution the reader that we are all searching for
the truth.  I'm just one person attempting to analyze the data,
so keep an open, but skeptical mind.  What frightens me the
most is that I receive communications from scientists who
complain about the closed minds of their colleagues.  Despite
this there is an awakening taking place in France, Chile and
all over the world, that we are not alone.

DNA MOLECULES MAY BE FROM SPACE

Francis Crick won the Nobel Prize for helping to discover 'the
structure of DNA,' the master molecule of life.  He now
believes that the 'origin of life' was from space.  He and
Leslie Orgel of the Salk Institute may have also discovered the
'origin of all life' on Earth.'  The two scientists theorize
that life came from a distant planet, and was brought here
aboard an ancient space ship or meteorite.  Their theory is
called "Directed Panspermia" and it may explain how life arose
spontaneously on Earth.  The scientist's point out virtually
all-terrestrial life on Earth is based on a single type of
genetic code.  If creatures sprang to life in some great
"primeval soup," as many biologists believe, it is surprising
that organisms with many different kinds of genetic codes do
not exist.  Crick and Orgel feel that a single code seems to be
entirely compatible with the theory that all life descended
from a single instance of 'Directed Panspermia.'  Its likely
the building blocks of DNA could have formed in space providing
a starter kit of genetic material for life to evolve rapidly on
Earth.

The Darwinian theory has shown that there is change within a
species, but it has been difficult to find much evidence that
the various species slowly evolved from primitive life forms to
eventually become Homo sapiens.  There is obviously also the
problem of how inanimate objects became alive.  Crick and Orgel
who have studied the building blocks of life note that the
element molybdenum plays a key role in many enzymatic reactions
that are important to life.  Molybdenum is a very rare element
on earth and seems unlikely to be part of a system that
developed by chance here on Earth.  The human DNA code is
amazingly complex and is still being unraveled with some of the
most powerful computers in the world working for years on the
problem.  It appears fairly obvious that life is likely to have
developed first on another planet where molybdenum was
plentiful.  Molybdenum a lustrous brittle silver white metallic
chemical element is used in alloys and points for spark plugs.
The Atomic number is 42 and its symbol is MO.  So even Nobel
Prize winners are looking to space for the spark of life.

FLU VIRUS MAY BE FROM SPACE

New studies indicate that even, the flu virus may come from
outer space.  Additionally, the flu virus may have worse in
store for us according to scientists who claim to have
discovered an alarming explanation for the epidemic.
Dismissing as dogma the conventional medical wisdom that flu is
a virus passed by human contact, the distinguished
astrophysicist Sir Fred Hoyle, and his colleague at Cardiff
University, Chandra Wickramasinghe, warn that we may be on the
brink of a global epidemic.  In a report to be published in the
journal "Current Science," they claim the outbreak was caused
by dust deposited high in the atmosphere by passing comets
being forced down to earth by energy generated by cooler
patches on the sun's surface, known as sunspots.  They reach
the peak of their activity, the maximum, every 11 years,
coinciding, the scientists say, with all major flu outbreaks
since 1761, including the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic blamed for
20 million deaths worldwide.  The latest cycle began to peak in
September and its peak is due sometime this year.  Thanks to
Stuart Millar.
http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/Distribution/Redirect_Artifact/0,4678,0-12 4154,0
0.html.

NEW JERSEY DIGITAL PHOTO OF UFO?

JACKSON - Michael Rogalski writes, "Last weeks article about
seeing a UFO on digital camera images taken at Great Adventure
theme park may be significant."  This could be a meaningful UFO
sighting technique at hand.  With the new digital cameras
people are starting to use, there may be magnetic, thermal, or
infra red influences in bandwidths that only video or still
camera sensors are able to see. They may show up when people do
not know they've taken a picture of a UFO.  It is not a secret
that some of the "night vision" camcorders companies are simply
removing their infrared filter from in front of the standard
solid state image sensors.  They have always been sensitive to
infra red, and it had to be filtered out.  You can take a
camera, remove the filter, blow out a match in the dark, and
still videotape it's thermal signature.  I just thought you'd
like to know about this, and add it to you book of tricks in
analyzing sightings.  This could change the level of validation
on some of these pictures.  NOT seeing it, and taking a picture
of it, could lend credibility to a sighting, especially when
subjects do not know UFO's can be photographed under these
conditions.  Thanks to: Mike Rogalski drdisco@worldnet.att.net.

PENNSYLVANIA RECTANGULAR UFOs

SOUTH PHILADELPHIA - On January 17, 2000, the witness reports,
"I was visiting my mother.  It was bitterly cold, 15 degrees
Fahrenheit and very windy."  At 6:02 PM, I went out back into
her small yard to have a cigarette. About a minute or two
passed when I saw movement in the sky.  It was mostly dark with
indirect distant light from further down the street.  The sky
was devoid of any clouds and the stars were visible.  I looked
up quickly and moved further into the yard to see better.  I
saw three rectangular objects moving in tandem.  They were not
like anything I ever saw in my entire lifetime.  They were
moving much faster than any commercial or military aircraft
based on my estimate of their altitude.  They glowed with a
subtle consistent amber color.  They were rectangular in shape
but with smooth edges.  I followed them without a blink for
about 6 seconds before they flew out of view over the rooftop.
When I first saw them they were in tandem, before they went out
of view they were moving out of formation.  I was stunned but
excited.  Thanks to Peter Davenport, NUFORC www.ufocenter.com

FLORIDA CYLINDER UFO INVESTIGATION

SOUTH PASEDENA --The witness called MUFON investigator Lorraine
Gerber to report he had observed a cylindrical object on
October 15, 1999.  The witness was having lunch and relaxing
watching birds in the sky at 1:00 PM.  He saw a dark cylinder
high in the sky at 70 degrees above the horizon and only a mile
away.  He got out of his car and walked to a clearing for a
better view.  The cylinder was dark in color and the bottom
looked black with a rim around it.  His radio started to make
crackling sounds that seemed related to the sighting.  He
looked to the north and saw a second object following the first
object.  It was a Lenticular shaped disc that was dark gray in
color moving north.  As the UFOs disappeared a Stratus cloud
beneath the craft appeared to be sucked up to the altitude of
the UFO.  The first object was the size of a pea at arm's
length and it traveled three inches at arm's length.  The disc
was about the half the size of the cylinder and moved in an
irregular pattern.  He yelled at some painters to look at the
objects, but they had not looked in the right spot.  The
witness had been sick with a migraine headache and nausea up
until the sighting.  Suddenly he felt much better and elated
because of his sighting.  The witness was in the military and
he knows various aircraft.  Personnel at Mac Dill Air Base were
called and claimed they had no aircraft flying at the time.
Thanks to MUFON State Section Director Elaine Gerber.

MARYLAND FLYING TRIANGLE

BELCAMP -- While viewing the lunar eclipse I saw a triangle of
11 small dim lights pass between me and the moon on January 20,
2000. The formation traveled to the southeast at a high
altitude until it passed from my sight at 11:57 PM.  I can say
it was higher than the average air traffic, which I witness on
a daily basis.

I was observing the lunar eclipse on 1/20/00 at 11:10 PM.  I
witnessed a triangular formation of lights in the sky that
passed between the moon and me.  There were eleven lights in
the formation of an equilateral triangle.  The triangle shaped
formation of lights did not vary in shape at all.  The
intensity of the light also remained constant, about that of a
dim star, but varied in color from amber to faint red.  They
traveled from northwest to southeast over the Belcam.  Thanks
to National UFO Reporting Center. www.ufocenter.com.

VIRGINIA DISC HOVERS OVER WITNESSES

RICHMOND -- Thanks for posting our last UFO disc sighting
report in your Filers Files #03. However, the sighting actually
occurred on 2/10/99 not 10/2/99 and was investigated by Richard
Lang (ASD), Frank Mclean (SSD), and myself.  I'm sorry for the
confusion. Thanks to VA State Director Ricardo Atristain Russ
Vincent writes, "Your article about the sighting the vicinity
of Ft. Lee was most interesting, since I live a couple miles
from there. The old army airfield and deserted dropzone are not
used anymore.  The area along the Appomattox River has been a
haven for strange and unusual sightings since I was a child.
The deserted quarries from the 20's, have always had a strange
haze around them and might hide UFOs. Thanks to:
RussellVincent@yahoo.com

HOPEWELL, VIRGINIA CASE INVESTIGATION - David Nelson saw the
car in front of him weave on and off the road and realized the
driver was looking at a V shaped UFO hovering 500 yards ahead
of him.  It was hovering a 100 feet above a pond on the south
side of Temple Avenue on November 2, 1993.  The bottom of the
object was a dull aluminum color with five circular,
fluorescent green lights.  The sides were gray-black and
appeared to be about ten feet thick.  He estimated its size to
be 75 feet from wing tip to wing tip.  When he was almost
beneath the UFO, it tilted its sharp nose up at 45 degree angle
and shot almost straight up and was out of sight in a second.
It left a puff of dark gray smoke.  The case was reported to
the Colonial Heights Police and the Hopewell News.  They
covered the original story and a follow up story that brought
in more reports.  The police noted there had been a similar
sighting a week earlier. Thanks to investigators Mark Blashak
and VA State Director Ricardo Atristain.

FLORIDA UFO SIGHTINGS JANUARY 15 and 21

MELROSE - Tonda Nooney writes, "On January 15, 2000, my husband
and I were having dinner on our deck. The night was clear and
my husband noticed, what he thought at first was a plane at
7:00 PM.  The object did not move closer or depart during the
next 15 minutes.  It hovered above the pine trees with red,
blue, yellow, green and white lights.  When he pointed the UFO
out to me, I went inside and got our camcorder.  When I started
filming the object I had trouble at first focusing it in.  I
had to focus 50x to get the image.  On camera, the object
appears round in shape, darting all around in and out of the
viewing area.  During the next three minutes of filming, the
object changed size five or six or 6 times.  The colors that
were very clear to the naked eye are like sparkling diamonds on
film.  When you looked with the naked eye, the object appeared
to be stationary.  I became nervous at one point and decided
that I had enough on film and went inside the house.  During
the next hour, we observed the UFO from our dining room window.
It moved approximately 200 yards from the original position
above treetop level east of our porch.  When we looked for the
last time, the object had departed. The UFO was about 300 feet
in diameter, but I'm terrible with measurements.  This is the
first time we have seen something this strange this close.
Thanks to Tonda Nooney.  Editor's Note:  I asked the family to
watch each night about the same time to make and to determine
if because sometimes the UFOs will return to the same area.  We
also wanted to make sure they were not observing a celestial
object such as Venus.

Tonda wrote again, "We have been watching every night since the
15th and nothing appeared until January 21, 2000.  The same
object returned again around 7:00 PM,.  This time there were
two more objects just like it, but these seemed smaller and
further to the east. I also have these UFOs on film, along with
the original object including a shot of the full Moon for size
comparison.  Thanks to Tonda Nooney.  Bland Pugh the Florida
State Director indicates MUFON is investigating the sightings.

ALABAMA

JASPER -- I just read a small article on the sightings web page
where you reported a bright object streak across the sky from
south to north in Alabama on January 7, 2000.  I just wanted to
let you know that my husband and I saw it too near Jasper.  It
was a very bright object moving fast sort of like a meteor.
But we both thought it looked strange and we were pretty
excited about it. I'm glad we weren't the only ones to see it.
:)  Thanks to Jenny Butterworth.

ARGENTINA UFO SPAWNS A TORNADO

PUERTO BELGRANO NAVY BASE - On January 18, 2000, a retired
sailor Marcos Herminio Faini saw a shiny object at an estimated
altitude of 2,000 meters (6,600 feet) and simultaneously the
presence of a powerful whirlwind on the ground surface below."
The weather station Commandante at Espora Air Base stated that
atmospheric conditions at the time were not conducive to the
formation of tornados.  The sailor said, "I can tell you that
after spending half my life at sea, I have seen something very
special which I believe to be of scientific value."  Faini took
a bus 12:45 PM from Mitre, and was startled by a whirlwind on
the ground above he the future Fleet Junior Officers School now
being built. "The whirlwind was concentric and wasn't moving."
Completely out of the ordinary."  He stated, "When I visually
tried to locate the column of dust, I noticed a glowing object
stationary in the southeast."  I showed it to the sergeant in
charge of the base hospital's military command."  "'It's a
flying saucer,"' he replied laconically, and the other
passengers stared at it, as well.  More curiosity seekers
joined the group.  The object showed some slight movement,
always in the same direction."  (See the La Nueva Provincia
newspaper 1/19/00), Thanks to Scott Corrales, author of
Chupacabras and UFO Roundup Vol 5, #4, 1/27,00. Editor: Joseph
Trainor

ROBED HOODED ALIENS

Jolene Rae Harrington writes that in Filer's Files #3, "Your
advice to potential abductees to be on the lookout for evidence
is a good warning."  However, as Derrel Sims frequently notes
in his lectures there appears to be subconscious suggestions
made to abductees to eradicate any such evidence.  For example,
one abductee recently wrote to me reporting an event saying,
"For some reason, I felt compelled to get up and brush my teeth
and shower," this in the wee hours of the morning.  One action
those suspecting they have had an abduction can take even days
afterwards is to check for fluorescent traces with the use of a
black light.  Hopefully by then the urge to destroy evidence
will have dimmed.  This technique, discovered by Derrel Sims
and still under investigation, can reveal traces on clothing,
bedding, carpets, windows, and especially on the human body
that defy attempts at removal.  However, I would take issue
with the recommendation to turn evidence over to law
enforcement officials.  Artifacts in the hands of officials
have a way of mysteriously 'disappearing.'  On the other hand,
a researcher knows how to get physical evidence to reputable,
open-minded scientists for further study. Any one who feels
they may have such evidence and/or who needs help dealing with
their experiences can contact Derrel Sims and his Saber
Enterprises/at: dwsims@neosoft.com.  Thanks to  Jolene Rae
Harrington: jrae@earthlink.net .

Editors' Note:  I thought MUFON investigator Evelyn Gaulson may
have discovered the black light technique first, but I won't
quibble about dates.  The aliens may be using some kind of a
dusting spray on abductees bodies to protect themselves or
others.  There is some concern that their medical techniques
may not be sterile.

HOODED ROBED BEINGS

Joseph A. Marmo writes, "I had some strange experiences in the
middle of the night in 1993.  I saw three short hooded midget
sized characters in my bedroom.  The room would be filled with
a strange glow that I can only describe as an infrared looking
light.  I had some very frightening night time experiences at
this time as well.  I would hear what sounded like many voices
moaning and screaming.  "I thought I was in hell."  Once I
remember saying an "Our Father" (I'm Catholic) because these
voices sounded like pure evil.  While I said it one of the
voices mimicked the prayer in a strange mocking tone.  My room
mate at the time would see a helicopter flying very low near
our apartment the day after these occurrences.  I cannot come
to any conclusions as to what was going on, but it was
extremely frightening and very bizarre.  I am a rational person
but I have no explanations. Thanks to: Joseph A. Marmo
jmarmo1@rochester.rr.com

UFOs ARE BIBLICAL

D. Alan Eastwood writes, "Among the various approaches to
investigating the UFO phenomenon, the Biblical approach is
productive for those who accept its historical aspect as
accurate."  I too have studied the Bible apart from the
dogma/doctrines of religious organizations and have found it to
have great value in making sense of modern-day UFO-related
reports.  In my estimation, the history and prophecies
contained in that collection of books--as well as the ancient
writings of other cultures--shed a great deal of reliable light
on the subject from within that conceptual framework (reality
tunnel).  Those who have not actually read the Bible may be
shocked to find that angels are described as looking and acting
a lot like human beings (walking, talking, eating meals, etc)
but having abilities exceeding those of humans.  They are not
described as having wings or ghostly appearances.  And there
are many passages describing aerial objects that match with
modern-day descriptions of UFOs.  A number of well written
books are available to those who wish to explore this avenue,
including Barry Downing's book: The Bible and Flying Saucers.
It is not surprising to me that some "abductees."  I and other
researchers I've worked with have found that by using
traditional prayers for the removal of oppressive spirits their
oppressive visitors departed immediately.  Some will say that
such a view is religious and not science-minded, but I call
those efforts "successful scientific experiments." If others
would like to try this, the prayers or formulas are found in
books like Francis MacNutt's book: Healing.  Thanks to: D. Alan
Eastwood eastwood@idsi.net  Editor's Note: Some of our
investigators report abductees claim some success in using
prayer to stop or limit abductions.

AUSTRALIA ABDUCTIONS

Bill Hamilton reports, "Recently Kelly Cahill gave a
presentation here at MUFON LA.  Her abduction involved a group
of six near Melbourne, Australia.  This case was thoroughly
investigated and included identical marks on different bodies,
similar after reactions, ground traces including tripod marks
in the soil.  Soil samples were taken and a magnetometer
revealed a magnetic anomaly at the landing site.  Three
witnesses produced similar drawings of craft and beings. This
is not the only multiple abduction case or the only case with
trace physical evidence or witness corroboration.  Albeit, many
"bedroom" abductions may not be physical events similar to
Kelly's and many may be confabulations, but just a few off-road
cases like hers is enough to establish a scientific basis for
further research.  Bill Hamilton skywatcher22@hotmail.com

RUMOR OF LIFE ON MARS GROWS

Cara E. Anderson writes, "I have been working with a Doctor
from the Biology Department of the University of Houston on a
Planetarium show."  In our efforts to find funding and notable
scientists to be in our project, my partner has heard from
several reliable sources (scientists at NASA AMES / JPL) that
NASA has recently accepted that there is undeniable proof of
life on Mars.  They have not gone public yet but intend to do
so in the not so distant future.  They have suddenly decided to
accept the theory that there is, after all, fossilized
microbial life in the Alan Hill's meteorite (ALH84001).  "Not
only that, but they have discovered a section of the Martian
terrain that undergoes seasonal color / color temperature
changes that they attribute to be ALGAE."  This has come from
an extremely reliable source.  Editors Note:  Rumors of this
type continue to come from various sources associated with
NASA.

MARS POLAR LANDER SIGNAL?

PASADENA, Calif. (AP) _ Another attempt is being made to
contact the Mars Polar Lander after controllers noticed a very
weak radio signal That could have originated from the silent
probe, NASA said Tuesday.  ``This week's test is a real
long-shot, and I wouldn't want to get "Anyone too excited about
it,'' said Richard Cook, the spacecraft's Project manager at
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.  The probe was
last heard from Dec. 3 as it was about to enter the Martian
atmosphere for a 90-day mission to study the planet's climate
And dig for frozen water beneath the surface.  It was the
second NASA Spacecraft to disappear in three months. Seven
senior Russian space experts have been meeting with NASA center
directors and may be discussing the similarities between the
loss of the Soviet Phobus 2 mission and our own Mars Lander.
The last known photos taken from Phobus 2 shows it being
intercepted by a UFO while orbiting Mars.  The photos can be
seen on www.filersfiles.com.

CROP CIRCLE SIGHTINGS UP IN 1999.

VANCOUVER, BC (Wireless Flash) - It looks like Canada and
England got the cream of the crop circles last year. According
to Vancouver-based crop circle researcher Paul Anderson, there
was a 50 percent increase in crop circle sightings in England
in 1999 and a 33 percent increase in Canada. Meanwhile, the
United States had only 12 crop circles, down from 15 in 1998.
Israel, which had never had a crop circle before 1997, had
three sightings in 1999.  Anderson says it's normal for crop
circle sightings to fluctuate around the world and he hopes
further research will uncover the reason. Thanks to Paul
Anderson, Vancouver, BC; (604) 731-8522; Access Canadian crop
circle report at http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada Editor's
Note:  High concentrations of meteorite dust are being found
within their boundaries of most verified Crop Circles.  The
question now is to determine how the meteorite dust was
deposited in such a way to form these intricate patterns.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems. $10.00

US GOVERNMENT UFO PROOF RELEASED: Audio tapes of a genuine UFO
Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign
Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now
available for distribution to the public.  Sam Sherman's audio
documentary tape called EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE ENCOUNTER on the
night of October 7, 1965, uses the actual voice recordings
provided by the Air Force.  During this event 12 high tech
luminous UFOs invade secure air space and came down low over
the runways at Edwards AFB.  Tower operator Sgt. Chuck Sorrels
spotted them and notified the Air Defense Command.  Sgt.
Sorrels is heard on the original tapes and in a new segment
where he verifies the event as it is heard on the archival
recordings.  The UFOs are described and a decision is made to
launch F-106 fighter interceptors.  You are there for an
important part of UFO history.  Hear it for yourself, it's the
best UFO tape ever made.  Tape cost is $14.95 each plus $2.00
for shipping -- total $16.95 -- (for overseas orders-out of US
- add $6.00 shipping cost -- total -- $20.95) you can send
either a personal check or money order to: Independent
International Pictures Corp, Box 565, Dept. GF, Old Bridge, New
Jersey 08857.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership.  Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants
permission for us to publish. Please state if you wish to keep
your name or story confidential,










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 29

              Re: Filer's Files #02 - 2000 Political Awakening

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:55:37 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:49:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #02 - 2000 Political Awakening


 >From: George A. File <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:54:32 EST
 >Subject: Filer's Files #02 - 2000 Political Awakening
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >IS IT TIME TO MAKE UFOs A POLITICAL ISSUE?

 >On Tuesday, I was called by Heather Anne Harder, Ph.D., who is
 >running as a candidate for the President of the United States.
 >She was a genuinely nice person, but most important to

George,

Dr. Harder contacted me and we have had several hours of talks.
The result was her inclusion in an Art Bell Show on Jan, 26 that
went very well.  I suspect you played a role in having her
contact me.  If so, thanks.  She can play an important role in
this election and I will try to help her as much as is
appropriate.

Regards,

Steve Bassett








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 29

                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:12:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:00:42 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:35:52 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:40:18 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>>From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
 >>>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:49 -0500
 >>>Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 03:23:09 -0500
 >>>Subject: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

 >>>>From: Mike Farrell <vidhunter@hotmail.com>
 >>>>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 12:02 AM
 >>>>Subject: 60% of Abductees are GAY!(not that there's anything wrong with
 >>>>that:->)

 >>>>The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia -
 >>>>http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new

 >>>>I think a review of 20th Century science fiction movies and
 >>>>books ought to be in order for anyone serious about this
 >>>>subject.  Three fingered Martians used to be a stape in
 >>>>cartoons.  Wasn't the Martian in the classic War of the Worlds
 >>>>movie three-fingered, with a suction cup at the end.  This also
 >>>>was a feature of ET in the movie of the same name.

 >>>>Those who are not aware of the influence of science fiction are
 >>>>doomed to repeat - or create - this data that they think they
 >>>>are collecting.

 >>>>Any other examples that anybody knows about?

Jerry responded

<snip>

 >I don't pretend to know what the abduction phenomenon is or is
 >not -- frankly, the whole issue just confuses me -- but of one
 >thing I am certain: it doesn't answer to glib solutions of the
 >sort proposed here.  No wonder "skeptics" have such a
 >credibility crisis.


Quoting statistics from (alleged) studies of 'abductees' doesn't
help the skeptical case much either! I'd pay good $$$ to know
what criteria Randle & Estes used to determine which respondants
would be included (or excluded) from their survey.

Honest to God Jerry, all I want are some answers. I have no
'vested' interest in how the chips fall. (Either fer or agin ET)
But when I see the _sloppy_ job of reporting (no detailed
information is provided as to how this 'survey' was conducted)
and how such basics as _providing_numbers_ from the original
survey are skipped completely by Ph.D's, - then what's a poor
boy to do?

I agree Jerry. The 'explanations' and 'theories' that are thrown
up by 'some' are laughable at times. I have yet to encounter
_anything_ offered by the "academics" (Loftus, Persinger, Baker,
et. al. now to include Randle & Estes) that has earned my
intellectual respect. Both as an 'abductee' and as a man still
in possession of a working brain, I frankly find most of it
insulting to my intelligence. And in this case, my sensibilities
as well.

Randle & Estes' claim of 60% homosexuals among the abductee
population is not a case of 'science' speaking, rather it's an
instance of statistics being used 'politically' in order to
defame. Between you and me and the ears in the walls, I think
Randle & Estes 'shot themselves in the foot' with this one.

When you question people about their sexual preferences you
better be ready to justify it. I don't think they can. I don't
think they can justify their statistics either. I wonder how
they phrased the question?

"Are you now or have you ever been a practicing homosexual?"

Too 50's 'Joe Mc Carthy' you think?  <lol>

Time to lose the bigoted 'Brown Shirt _all_ be better off in the
end.

Warm regards,

John Velez






________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________







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                                Sims Funding

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:22:45 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:11:55 -0500
Subject: Sims Funding


Press Release

Benefactors Help Fund Derrel Sims' Continuing Implant Research


Dr. Bob and Zoh Hieronimus of Hieronimus & Co.
(www.21stCenturyRadio.com and www.ZohShow.com) have made a
generous donation to Derrel Sims, noted abduction researcher and
pioneer in the study of alleged alien implants, following a
startling radio interview he gave along with alleged abductee
Bill Bean. In this interview, Bean described some anomalous
objects that he spontaneously expectorated from his throat. "For
some time I'd had a strange blockage that made eating
difficult," Bean reports. "I had been tested by numerous doctors
and no one could explain or alleviate my condition." Eventually
Bean coughed up some small, unusual objects which he saved as
possible evidence, and consulted Derrel Sims.

"What is so exciting about these particular artefacts," Sims
reveals, "is that they bear an uncanny resemblance to a
surgically-removed object sent to me from a Brazilian doctor.
They all appear manufactured. There are also similarities to one
of the objects removed during one of FIRST's earlier surgeries."
(FIRST, or Fund for Interactive Research and Space Technologies,
is the organization Sims formed for the study of the alleged
alien implants retrieved in several surgeries.) "We have an
exciting opportunity here to compare analysis of objects
retrieved from different individuals at different locations and
times with only one common link -- all claim to have had
experiences involving unknown entities."

When Dr. Bob & Zoh Hieronimus learned of this promising case,
they ponied up an undisclosed sum to facilitate proper
scientific testing by Sims' team. "I wish more organizations
would put their money where their interest and curiosity is,"
reflected Dr. Hieronimus. So does Sims. "Investigators like me
depend on the help of such generous individuals. Not only did
Hieronimus & Co. provide a valuable outlet for disseminating
information, but they they're willing to fund vital scientific
testing to help unravel this mystery."

Details of the analysis of the Bean objects will be released as
they become available. Meanwhile, Sims is consulting with a
noted cardiovascular surgeon about another promising case
involving an alleged abductee with a series of scoopmarks
overlaying an anomalous object confirmed by Xray. Derrel Sims is
currently presenting his latest research at the UFO Conference
in Oslo, Norway. He can be contacted at his new email address
dwsims@neosoft.com

          -30-


Contact: Jolene Rae Harrington, Media Liaison
Saber Enterprises/FIRST
jrae@earthlink.net






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                                 Get COMETA

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:09:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:15:07 -0500
Subject: Get COMETA


I have now read the complete COMETA report. It is now available
in English from the Fund for UFO Research. If the Condon report
was high school, then the COMETA report is graduate school.
Those people really know how to think!

Get It. Read It.
GROK (understand) it.

And prepare for the eventualities!

COMETA recommends (for France) increasing the effort to
understand UFO sightings and implications, "so as to no longer
be blind, dumb and paralyzed......"

HaHaHaHaHaHa

Couldn't have said it better myself.








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:07:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:31:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:01:52 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Mike:

 >Did you try to determine, by contacting local airports, etc., if
 >aircraft were involved? What was the date and location? Except
 >for your estimate of 30 seconds for the sighting, this seems
 >suspiciously like a group of ultralights. I was once fooled by
 >such a formation flying in twilight. Were there lights on the
 >objects? Could you list your specific reasons for thinking that
 >these were not aircraft?

 >Clear skies,

 >Bob Young

Hi Bob.

Yes, I contacted the local airport control tower. He advised me
there were no aircraft in the area. I asked him the altitude of
the cloud cover and he advised me 2000 feet. This is how I know
that the objects were at least at that altitude. If they were
just inside the clouds, then I had estimated the size of each
object at approximately 20 feet in diameter.

If they were above the clouds, then there is no way to determine
the size of these objects.

The 30 seconds is a maximum estimate, not a minimum. These
things were really scooting... Every move was so graceful. Even
the 90 deg left turn was as smooth as silk. No jerks, no
hesitations, just turn! Actually, it was more of a slide left
once the right side of the formation had opened...like the
formation was hinged...

Ultra lights I know. I have observed them and their flight
characteristics. They are slow, noisey, and I have my doubts
that they would be flying in cloudy skys at night. No, there
were no lights on the objects. The objects themselves were
lights. Individual lights... flourscent white... steady, not
blinking. Nothing in their color ever changed. They maintained a
constant acceleration rate and brightness.

I don't remember the exact date. I have it written down
somewhere in my files. I know it was the First part of Sept.,
1967. The time was approximately 8:45 PM. How do I know this?
Back then, there was a weekly TV program called 'Peyton Place'.
This program was on at the time of the sighting. In fact, I went
outside when the program came on, leaving my wife to watch it.

I don't know what these objects were, but I do know what they
were not! From my youth, I have been an avid fan of aircraft. At
age 12, I became aware of the existance of the ME-262 German Jet
Fighter. I often told other people that the Germans had a jet in
WWII, and you would be surprised how many people all but called
me a lier.

I also followed the Space Program from the launching of Sputnik
on Oct. 4, 1957. I would suggest that at one time, I knew almost
as much about launch vehicles and missions as many people working
in the industry. <g>

I studied anything I could get my hands on. I wrote extensively
to NASA, at the George C. Marshall Center, Huntsville, Alabama,
requesting information about the various launch vehicles; the
Mercury Atlas launch vehicle, etc, alway the way up to and
beyond the Apollo Moon Missions.

I have an extensive scrapbook of those early years of space
exploration. I have 8x10 photographs of the origional 7 Mercury
Astronauts; a color photo of Alan Sheppard's suborbital flight
launch of his Mercury-Redstone rocket; a black and white photo
of John Glenn's Launch on Friendship-7, as well as of John in
his space suit.

I had the opportunity last year to have him Autograph those
photos for me. He was surprised, to say the least, when they
were offered to him to be autographed. <G> I even have a
complete flight log of the flight of Aurora-7, piloted by Scott
Carpenter, another supporter of the existence of UFOs. His
flight took place on May 24, 1967 and was for three orbits, the
same as John Glenn.

So, Bob, I am not easily fooled by man made aircraft. I have
studied the flight characteristics of aircraft. I can tell by
the way they move and turn the difference between them and the
objects I saw. One of the most difficult things I ever had to
identify, was what turned out to be a "refuling" process, high
in the skys above my town. This occurred just at dusk, and made
the identification of the configuration very difficult. I
managed to see what it was when I pulled my car to the side of
the road and used my binoculears to view the configuration. It
was a very interesting experience, but it taught me that things
are not always what they seem to be.

Blimps? Yep, I have seen them day and night. Hang Gliders,
ultra lights, Choppers, Satellites, Space Shuttle in flight,
even high altitude weather baloons.

Thanks for your interest. Keep in touch.

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
     ---








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:35:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:34:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


At 03:22 AM 01/29/2000 -0500, you wrote:
 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Dear Listers, Michael, Lesely and Et., (aka, Dr. Al);

 >We all get our Ph.D.'s taken away with disgrace when
 >we look up, see the sight of the century, and forget to
 >take a picture.

 >This note is for all and is not about getting excited or
 >emotional with a sighting, it's about so many of you listers
 >over the few years I've been subscribing to Dr. the Kanappy
 >UpDates, wishing to be able to witness a UFO or (and in many
 >cases) even wishing you had an experience.

 >Truth. I've spoken to many of you out there off line and in
 >person. I've heard it said seldomly but felt it often, "Gee, I
 >wish I could be abducted" or "Gee, I wish I could witness a
 >UFO!"

 >Be careful. You may get what you wish for. And if it should
 >happen to you, you're stuck inside of Mobile, with the Memphis
 >blues, again. You will no longer have any credibility left with
 >the skeptics crowd. Not only that, but those who believe
 >inwardly will disbelieve outwardly just to be part of the
 >maddening crowd.

 >They will point and screech, "Lookit the maroon who _thinks_ he
 >saw a frying saucer.... hahahahahah!" The laughing can be
 >painful, most especially if you are a sensitive person, as I am.
 >I've learned to become angry at the buggers what come for me.
 >I've also learned to transfer that angst to those who would
 >debunk.


Hi, Jim.

Yep, I know of what you speak. I have been there. As a teen,
supporter of the belief in "Flying Saucers," I was laughed at
and scoffed at all the time. Growing up int the fifties and
early 60's was definitely an experience when it came to the idea
that Aliens were visiting our planet.

I have been insulted in virtually every way one can be. Yet,
something in me would not allow me to become discouraged. Yet,
45 years of study and in the field research has left me
frustrated. Many promises of "disclosure," have come and gone,
with nothing changing. Attitudes among the scientists whom we
would expect to be the leaders in solving this mystery, continue
to amaze me.

These people put their grants ahead of their principals. I have
lost respect for these people. I no longer look to them for
answers. In fact, just the opposite. When they speak, I more or
less tune them out.

I'll take the "encounter" any time it is offered. Why should I
allow others to influence my apprasial of who, what and why
aliens? are here? I reserve the right to encounter and interpret
these experiences for myself. What is life if not an ongoing
experience? Who would deny an opportunity to learn, even if the
experience is not always pleasant? It is simply life.

REgards, Mike



  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
     ---








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:47:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:39:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Dear Listers, Michael, Lesely and Et., (aka, Dr. Al);

 >We all get our Ph.D.'s taken away with disgrace when
 >we look up, see the sight of the century, and forget to
 >take a picture.

 >This note is for all and is not about getting excited or
 >emotional with a sighting, it's about so many of you listers
 >over the few years I've been subscribing to Dr. the Kanappy
 >UpDates, wishing to be able to witness a UFO or (and in many

 >Truth. I've spoken to many of you out there off line and in
 >person. I've heard it said seldomly but felt it often, "Gee, I
 >wish I could be abducted" or "Gee, I wish I could witness a
 >UFO!"

 >Be careful. You may get what you wish for. And if it should
 >happen to you, you're stuck inside of Mobile, with the Memphis
 >blues, again. You will no longer have any credibility left with
 >the skeptics crowd. Not only that, but those who believe
 >inwardly will disbelieve outwardly just to be part of the
 >maddening crowd.

 >They will point and screech, "Lookit the maroon who _thinks_ he
 >saw a frying saucer.... hahahahahah!" The laughing can be
 >painful, most especially if you are a sensitive person, as I am.
 >I've learned to become angry at the buggers what come for me.
 >I've also learned to transfer that angst to those who would
 >debunk.

 >Oh no, Mo. Not the debunkers do I admonish, but their (many of
 >them) holier than thou attitude. "Hah, you think you saw grays,
 >well, it was only Gray Poupon. You think you saw a flying
 >saucer? Well, it was some kid down the block tossing glowing
 >hubcaps across the sky at twice the speed of light in a vacuum.
 >You think you got took by aley ens? Well, you were just sleep
 >paralyzed." On and on ad nauseum, ad absurdum.

 >We know they are full of tyrannosaurus poop. They think they
 >are speaking ex cathedra. Well, they are not. They are merely
 >making damned fools of themselves for closing their minds. Just
 >the act of saying, "It cannot be, it isn't so," makes my blood
 >boil. And at 2% Grippahol, that aint easy.

 >Truth be known, _It may not be so, or it may_ but for sure, you
 >don't know, and neither do I. So try, really hard, to just
 >accept the possibility that one of us may have the Motts. And
 >until it's all over, if it ever shall be so in our life time,
 >then we will all know the truth. And when that happens, there
 >will be a whole lot of sheepish faces out there.

 >Maybe not. Some people are hard to convince. After all, not
 >every unbeliever is a Saint Thomas. Some are Judas Priests.


Dear Jim:

If anyone tries to take away either of your genuine Ph.Ds, let
me know. I'm looking at a nifty new printer, and I know this
maniac who whacks sheep and stuff, and his wife knows how to
clean the skins.

They were about to make drum-heads of something when I
complained about my lack of high credentials.

Naturally, you would have to pass the strict standards of the
Larry Hatch Ph.D and Storm-Door Company, but that is adjustable
to your degree of academic skills and funding.

Very best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: I was planning to award myself a few degrees, but fear that
might appear unseemly.









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 06:02:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:56:39 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:07:31 +0800
 >From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hello list, hi Errol, everybody,

 >I just thought I'd de-lurk and add a few comments into this
 >discussion that everybody seems really tired of! Please forgive
 >me if I'm being redundant or if you've heard this before. : )

 >>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:45:11 -0800
 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Yes that's what I said. No special effects expert has been able
 >>to recreate the creature. Have they? Is there any place where I
 >>said they tried and failed. Some may have but I don�t know if
 >>that's a fact. All I know is that I haven�t seen any such
 >>recreations. If there is some mistake in phrasing then I
 >>apologize but it wasn�t intended. So OK none have tried. I'll
 >>certainly agree to that since its what I intended to say in the
 >>first place. Why?.. because it�s probably impossible. I think
 >>they would have if they could have.

 >They can and they did, Mr Gehrman.

 >I've not even bothered researching this case very much, but know
 >of several special effects recreations of alien autopsies, some,
 >to my untrained eyes, very much more convincing than the blurry,
 >choppy and anachronistic AA film.

<snip>

Dear C. D. Conrad:

There is no need for apologies, your comments are quite welcome.

In my personal opinion, the AA film, etc.,  have been bashed to
pieces. There is, and always will be a segment of the UFO
community who check their brains at the door.

Unless and until something solid and new come in regarding this
and related stories, it seems useless to rehash them.

There are more interesting matters to discuss, and hopefully
these threads will trend back toward them.

Thank you for de-lurking. I hope you will find time to
contribute to these discussions in future.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: Please write to me offlist for some listings and/or maps of
Perth area UFO sightings.

- - - - - -










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                          Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #336

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:49:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:10:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #336


Apology to MW #336 (For January 29, 2000)

Once again we hear refrains of  Aristotle's crass remains, and
would return to crystal spheres enclosed from our most strident
fear -- all to fool . . . convince ourselves that we must hold
the highest shelves of grace and strong integrity -- "creation's
crown", alacrity. TAKE ARISTOTLE AT HIS WORD, as churches did
(Aquinas heard) and put your woman at your heel to put her
through your strange ordeal. Make her work the lions share, but
work for less (or be contraire!) and OWN a hundredth for her
boils as she reduces, makes, and toils. Take dominion of your
Earth, and treat her like a bitch you've cursed; beat her if she
won't conform to arbitrary wills and norms. Throw your filth
upon her ground and foul her face to mar, confound . . . to mess
up all the weather patterns, raging storms that flood and
flatten. . . to drop that polar shelf of ice and raise that wave
of flood and fright -- washing Earth from pole to pole, her
healing facial harsh and cold!

Depending on a moon, they say, or "just so far from solar rays";
seasons placid, and "predictable", water, heat and food -- some
victual. All of this must come together, blessed by God and
*his* trite measure, plus some luck to mix right in -- to make
that spark for *smarter men*. Likely, "RARE!" they have
construed!  "We're alone," they BALLYHOO (!), then, hustle on
back to their usual work of working too hard to be less than
alert!

UFO's are scorned, ignored, or shut behind their screens and
doors, and they can say that SCIENCE shows that our concern is
indisposed.  "What you want's a waste of time," they're quick to
say from strident shrines, though we have paid, and dearly too,
for what they hold from me and you. Locked beyond the common
pale (and stuffed to tunnel, boom, and rail) there exists the
covert record of the secrets kept -- collected. Secrets signal
strident change, and who gets hurt when rearranged? Power
settles as it wills, and change is rampant. Take your fill! This
may be what's kept from us -- that *they* lose power, might, and
trust -- that we could be as them, to find . . . that we're
contrived, unbrave . . . confined.

Meanwhile, we're a laugh (God's treasure!), that we INSIST we
use OUR measure; holding to our hubris, meanly, so we can coddle
fear obscenely. We would dote on Aristotle, sucking on that
tired bottle, living at his charmless center he contrived to
suit HIS temper, made SPECIAL when he's alone (to be God's
favorite in his home), a "crowning jewel in cosmic crowns" of
*loving gods* with angry frowns?

We'd give space folk motivation, tell them how to DO their
mission -- paint their feelings, points of view, tell them how
they'd pick and choose? Then we'd dictate understanding, argue
physics notwithstanding, tell them what their form should be,
and how they'd speak like you and me? What a crock, this
strained elan, we use to sing our centric song. We'd dictate
what we wished was true, forgetting what we always knew, that
what we know is likely wrong -- that we could sing more humble
songs.

We do these things, retreat from grace, and wallow in our
pride's disgrace. We forget the time and distance . . .
expanding as we speak -- for instance. We avoid the misty
blackness, elude the depths that lead to vastness, retreating to
our shallow minds -- in ignorance's grasp confined. We doom
OURSELVES to crass perdition, and MAKE confusion -- indecision.
We won't see the bigger picture, look beyond a narrow measure,
or fund the courage we would need to validate our break-neck
speed! We don't look into the sky, except to plant the reason
why that puts us at the *point* of *things* -- the universe
revolves and swings  . . . around *mankind* so proud and
haughty, but like J. Prufrock a little dotty. And like a
Prufrock, our Aristotle figures in to short and throttle,
forcing us, yes, to a center we CONTRIVE, so are embittered.

We won't know what futures bring if we insist and falsely sing
the jaundiced praises of a hubris . . . we've contrived to bathe
and soothe us. We don't make consistent rules, we shortchange
all our children's schools by feeding pap, a tasteless gruel
that rots the gut and fouls the stool. We won't make a lasting
peace, we'll struggle where we're challenged least, and let the
BIG chance slip away if we allow this glad decay. Fail not to
search your sky for that which they'd let slip on by. Challenge
ALL your institutions, hold them close to constitutions. There
is stuff they won't explain, and this is why one MUST complain.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Believing you're alone's unbrave, and makes you just a *tool* -- a
slave.

Restore John Ford.

--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 22 January>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.









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   Jan > Jan 29

               Betty Hill, k.t. Frankovich on Middleton Radio

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:49:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:32:44 -0500
Subject: Betty Hill, k.t. Frankovich on Middleton Radio



On 30th January, an exclusive 2 hour radio program will be
featuring Betty Hill (of Betty & Barney Hill - first publicly
disclosed abductee accounts in the US) in conversation with k.t.
Frankovich (author of 'Where Heavens Meet' as listed and
reviewed on amazon.com)

http://kt.cjb.net

or alternatively

http://members.aol.com/kfrnkovich/


As well as being broadcast from the Tennessee based radio
station and reaching 8 other states, the program will also be
broadcast live on the radio program's website in Real audio:

http://nightsearch.net/indexmain.html

In particular, Betty Hill, now in her young 80's is (in my
humble opinion) a delight to listen to and as sharp minded as
ever!

Betty and Barney Hill were the first known UFO abduction cases
in 1961 and the subjects of the book "The Interrupted Journey".

Eddie Middleton's 'Night Search' - Radio Program

Sunday, 30th January, 6pm Eastern Standard Time/5pm Central











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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:09:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:37:07 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:44:24 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:17:00 -0800
 >>From: Lesley Cluff <manitou@fox.nstn.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:27:22 -0500
 >>>From: John Velez<jvif@spacelab.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:45:33 -0600 (CST)
 >>>>From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >>>>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>>>>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>>>>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>><<snip>

<snip>


Hello List,

Quite a long thread here without much mention of the possible
purpose of "the EYES", only appearance.

Other than Mr. Mortellaro's comment and also Roger Evans, whom I
believe is correct in stating that we need to think "outside of
the box", there were no others.

Note: I'm not an abductee, nor have I ever had an experience
with any alien entities, but I don't believe the important thing
here is the appearance, but the purpose they (the eyes) may
serve.

It may be possible that they serve as a direct pathway, both
ingoing and outgoing, for their telepathic communications, such
as a "serial cable" connected between computer peripherals for
instance, or a "network card" connected to a cable modem, that
will allow transfer of both thoughts, images, emotions, etc.,
from the source to the receiver, much as the computer does...
hence the "red lights" mentioned in a previous message in this
thread about an abductee regarding the removal of the entities
eye cover.

Yes, they could be "machines" for a lack of a better word, or
they could be a "biological neural network" equipped with a
"scanning" device (the eyes), allowing them to scan our
thoughts, fears, and emotions. These "neural networked" entities
would therefore be "connected" to a common "server" or
"networking center" where all their gathered images, emotions,
thoughts, etc. are stored (the "server" being the mothership,
the Nordics, the Reptilians, etc., call it what you want, I
think you get the picture).

Mr. Mortellaro refers to this, as does Dr. Jacobs I believe, but
maybe in different terminology, as "Mind Melding".  The main
question of this technique that I have is, how does the actual
exchange take place?  How does it get from point A (the abductee
mind) to point B (through the entities eyes) or vice versa?  Any
ideas here?

With respect to all here,

Todd Lemire

http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html
--
"What you believe isn't important; it's what you find out by
research and investigation that's important."

George Fawcett








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:19:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:43:02 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


..... and the flogging of the dead horse continued:

 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:07:31 +0800
 >From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

I agree with the thrust of these comments, but they perhaps
deserve further thought:

 >I've not even bothered researching this case very much, but know
 >of several special effects recreations of alien autopsies, some,
 >to my untrained eyes, very much more convincing than the blurry,
 >choppy and anachronistic AA film.

Indicating, of course, that professional special effects efforts
are much better at presentation than the real thing... <g>

 >First that I can think of are the famous aliens from the Kyle
 >MacLachlan Roswell movie. That predates the AA footage by a
 >couple of years, but is still a valid example. Now, they didn't
 >hack those puppets up, but they exist as examples of
 >considerably more imaginitive and believable aliens than the
 >ones in the AA movie. And they were articulated! The AA corpse
 >is very stiff, and, dare I say it, rubbery.

Comparing the original to what we "believe" that aliens should
look like, or the structure of their dead corpses.

 >Second, the same effects guy who made the Roswell movie aliens
 >did *another* alien corpse for ABC's 20/20 program after the AA
 >footage came out. This was a recreation to show how it could be
 >done. I believe the same guy did yet another recreation for
 >Scientific American. Very, very convincing footage which had
 >organ removal and examination procedures shown clearly and
 >accurately.

Actually, the firm that made the mock-up sold them to the public
for a couple of years after the movie was released. The Sharper
Image catalog carried it form several thousand dollars and I
have no idea as to how many they sold.

 >Twins FX Group in Quebec did a recreation of the AA film after
 >it came out. This was an extremely convincing colour recreation
 >of the AA movie with alien corpse, gore, organs, blood, the lot.
 >Identical to the AA film creature, but in focus! Cost? $2000.

 >There was a low budget German recreation for tv, too. This was
 >blurry black & white, but they did it all in one shot, unedited
 >takes. You should be aware, Mr Gehrman, that on the one hand the
 >edited AA film argues towards authenticity, and on the other
 >covers up a multitude of possible FX trickery during the filming
 >process. Mostly the latter, judging by the continuity. Somebody
 >else can cover that point, I'm sure.

 >The Brazillian tv show recreation that was alluded to by another
 >poster. This was very high quality, and was aired on live tv.

 >Again, another very convincing alien corpse with internal
 >organs, blood etc.

The problem with all of these re-creations is they were
attempting to copy something that had already been seen. Each of
these would fail the same analysis that the original "film" had
undergone. The German doctor sawed through the alien as if he
was cutting meat with a serrated edge, and the camera angles in
the Brazillian show (which was by far the best) indicated that
it had been shot on a set, and not in a closed room (in the
original, all four walls are seen as the camera works around
the. . . well, whatever).

 >The Sci Fi channel's Roswell: Cover-ups and Close Encounters
 >show did yet another alien autopsy, mimicking the film quality
 >as well as the medical procedures.

 >The Discovery Channel's UFO's Down to Earth show did another
 >one, again with dissection procedures shown, internal organs,
 >etc.

 >The Millennium tv show did another alien autopsy, and the
 >X-Files had no less than *two* such autopsies during it's run!
 >Both were quite realistic for the medium.

 >Also, a UK FX artist mailed Fortean Times with a photo of a
 >recreated AA head - identical to the one in the film - to show
 >just how easy it was to create - and this was in the months
 >after the film came to light. Cliff Wallace of Creature Effects
 >in the UK expressed his opinion that the AA puppet was produced
 >somewhere in Britain, so maybe it was the original creator who
 >sent the image?

 >Anyway, not impossible to recreate by any means.

Obviously, this is true and has been admitted from the beginning
by Bob Shell, Philip Mantle, and Michael Hesemann. The
technology is there to recreate the "film", or even produce a
better one, so that has never been the real question. The
problem has always been the question "WHY?" and to what end.


But these are old discussions that don't need to be repeated.

 >Some of this info I had to hand, some I gathered with an
 >internet search that took all of two minutes. I dare say I could
 >pull more examples if I had enough time.

 >This is not to say that the AA film is unconvincing, or that
 >these examples were _all_ better, just that they do exist, and
 >that it is eminently possible to recreate the AA footage with
 >quite cheap and established FX house techniques. Mr Gehrman
 >should have checked this before making any extreme claims, in my
 >opinion.

The problem has been that the minor flaws that can be quickly
found in the copies have not been found in the original.
However, that's not to say that some have questioned the
procedures and material used in the original.

But no "smoking gun" to prove that the sequence is a hoax has
been found after several years of searching. Every time a
supposed problem is identified then research has found that it
could well be accurate. Keep in mind that the telephone and
clock were seized on as too new to be in a 1947 film, and that
coiled phone cords were available at that time. That turned out
to be false, and it was found that coiled cords were popular in
hospital environments in the late 40's to help keep medical
personal from tripping over them.

 >I was going to go on and list about six reasons why the
 >procedures shown in the AA footage, and it's duration as shown
 >by the clock, are inconsistent and anachronistic, but it's been
 >done before on oh so many websites, magazines, television shows
 >and papers that most researchers should be familiar with. I'm
 >also not touching Santilli's lies and fabrications, which have
 >been documented by others on the list.

If you have something new that hasn't been discussed then you
should post it for all to see. The emphasis, of course, is on
the word "new".

There are many reasons to believe that the AA "film" is a fraud
and a hoax, and it is unfortunate that absolute proof hasn't
been found to put this matter to rest. I would agree with Neil's
post in that whatever we think of Ray and his provenance for the
"film", we are still left with the images that can't easily be
explained. Unfortunately, the endless debate and statements of
"fact" that we are seeing posted to the Internet are merely
clouding the issue further, as we move further and further from
the research that's been done.

We've proven conclusively that the "film" could have been faked,
but we've yet to prove that it was.

Steve











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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:05:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:47:44 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:53:00 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:35:52 -0600
 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:07:07 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

 >>And speaking of examples, I would say the above is about as
 >>succinct a statement of the problem of not wanting to think very
 >>hard about the abduction phenomenon, or of throwing the feeblest
 >>of pseudoexplanations at it. Eddie Bullard puts it well (The
 >>UFO Encyclopedia, second edition, page 22):

 >>"Standards of evidence grow lax among sociocultural theorists
 >>who satisfy themselves with the discovery of antecedents.
 >>Shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief, science fiction,
 >>and movie imagery, these theorists bring home endless analogies
 >>of dubious worth.

 >Jerry, List:

 >Noticing that three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens from
 >another world who have come here in spaceships are traditional
 >figures in 20th Century science fiction and also in some
 >abduction accounts of three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens
 >from another world who have come here in spaceships hardly
 >qualifies as "shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief,
 >science fiction, and movie imagery for endless analogies of
 >dubious worth".


Dear Bob:

Nobody I know of has addressed the possibility of beings with an
odd number of digits on one hand, and an odd number of digits on
the other,

Given Velcro fingertips, they could not only abduct people, but
throw honest researchers off the scent as well.

Given the highly advanced technology of alien societies,
they must know something about Velcro.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS:  They must be bored with Teflon by now.








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                     History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now'

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:39:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:55:56 -0500
Subject: History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now'


History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now' starting January 31.

I had a call from one of the producers of a series of 4
one-hour shows for the the US History Channel starting
Monday, January 31, at 9:00 p.m., Eastern, I believe.

I know that Dick Hall, Rob Swiatek, Dr. Richard Haines, Dr.
Kevin Randle and myself are in some of the programs among many
others. I don't know if any of the nasty noisy irrational
negativists were interviewed.

Stan Friedman









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:54:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:24:57 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >From: Neil Morris
 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:11:32 +0000
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:13:19 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:13:07 -0600
 >>From: Roger Evans
 >>Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Hi, Neil!

Previously, I had written:

 >>Regarding such containment suits, I suggest you check out an old
 >>video called "The Doomsday Chronicles". Within it you will find
 >>an official, U.S. government produced documentary about a
 >>partial meltdown in Idaho Falls, Idaho in 1959 or 1960, I'm not
 >>sure which. This government produced documentary clearly
 >>demonstrates the proper usage of radiation and bio-hazard
 >>containment suits as I described to you earlier; two layers,
 >>self-contained air and all joints taped shut. AA clearly
 >>violates all these protocols. In fact, the AA suits look more
 >>like fire fighting rescue gear to me.

You responded:

 >What relevance has this to events _13_years_ earlier?, other
 >than 17 yrs worth of hindsight put into practice.

 >At the time of the alleged AA film's events, 1947, there was no
 >commercial nuclear industry, the world first nuclear reactor had
 >only been built and run just over 4 years previous (CP-1 Dec 2nd
 >1942), it would be 1954 before the worlds first nuclear sub and
 >1955 before the first US town was fed with nuclear produced
 >electricity (Arcos ID 1955) from a still experimental BWR
 >reactor. In 1947 these reactors were still just very big Lab
 >experiments, even the ones producing the raw materials for the
 >"bombs".

Actually, I think it is very relevant. Government development of
such things doesn't develop over night. For instance, the
stealth aircraft existed for years before we ever "officially"
saw one. The general public's perception might be that it was
just invented; however we know better than that.

Do you really think that the government is going to wait until
they've already built a reactor to say, "Gee, our employees seem
to be dropping like flies. Maybe we need to consider some kid of
protective suits..." I feel confident that what was standard
practice in 1959  regarding safety issues was already well
thought out many years before in the earliest days of atomic
power development. In fact, I really can't imagine how they
could work in such an environment with out such forethought.
Therefore if, as you mentioned, the earliest reactor was "in
operation by 1942", then the experimentation and development
would have been started several years before that. Such work
would have necessitated some kind of hazard suits. I feel that 5
or 6 years is plenty of time to figure out that they need double
layers with all seams taped shut and an independent air supply.
If anything less was workable, then why change it later? They
knew very well what the hazards were long before 1947.

Moving on, I had written:

 >>>>Orderly's are not used in the operating room
 >>>>under any condition. Operating rooms are restricted to vital
 >>>>personal only. And just how much "dissection" did you see while
 >>>>working in the ER, Ed?

Ed replied:

 >>>I worked (as an orderly) at two hospitals in Albuquerque NM while I was
 >>>attending school at UNM.

You wrote:

 >I'm not wanting to jump to Ed's defence here, I'm sure he's able
 >to do that for himself but unless _you_ have personal experiance
 >of operating room proceedures and protocol, you yourself are
 >gulty of the offence you accuse Ed of, except that _he_ does
 >claim to have personel experiance of PM operating room
 >proceedures.

 >Do you have such experiance?, so giving you firm ground on which
 >to base your comments.

I can only assume in the barrage of AA related posting that you
missed my earlier post regarding my experience in the O.R. Early
in my career I was both a medical illustrator and a
cinematographer assigned to document surgical procedures in the
operating rooms at the Texas Medical Center in Houston. Combined
with the required gross anatomy classes I completed, this gave
me a VERY up close and personal view of work done by surgeons in
the O.R. I am very familiar with the work done by real doctors
and the AA docs don't walk the walk.

Continuing, you asked:

 >Did Bob Shell tell an untruth when in 1995 he passed on the MIT
 >test results on the AA film/video which concluded _it_ _was_
 >shot on 24fps film and subsiquently transfered to Euro-PAL video
 >25fps.

<snip>

 >And I have looked through the _full_ raw footage
 >(PAL-video)frame by frame.


No, I do not imply that Bob Shell lied. However, I do question
why he would give a video to MIT as opposed to several video
production houses where professionals work with film and video
transfers on a daily basis. And I do understand the
complications involved regarding the difference between PAL and
NTSC. In fact, you'll find a recent post I made pointing out
that very problem. However, you say you've looked at the PAL
video frame by frame (which I do not doubt). I'm not sure what
that really proves since film transferred at 25 fps to PAL,
which also runs at 25 fps, would not show any repeated frames;
it's a one to one transfer! What did you see? I'm just curious.

Regarding my seemingly endless discussion with Ed; my
dissatisfaction on this point is that Ed demanded some kind of
evidence showing that the film COULD have been produced on
video. When Michael Lennick posted his observation some time
back regarding the lack of double frames, I pointed this out to
Ed. Although he has written time and again how no one comes up
with anything, he has never looked at the video and said, "I see
no doubled frames!" My beef is why ask for evidence and then not
check out the evidence to see if it exists as stated? Regardless
of the conclusion one might draw from the evidence, it's a bit
insulting to demand that everyone else jump through hoops and
not even bother to pop his copy of AA into the VCR! It's the old
"Do as I say, not as I do" form of arrogance that I find so
offensive.

Thanks for the info about early reactor work.

Take care,

Roger Evans










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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:56:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:56:12 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:44:24 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Dear Listers, this is merely a general comment, one not directed
 >at Lesley or Harry or anyone in particular, except you.  And you
 >know who you are.

 >Key words here folks is "stare."  Once you've been stared at
 >by one of these critters who are especially adept at it, it's like
 >the "Mind Meld" only more.  The entity gets up really close
 >and stares at you.  Nose to nose and farhead to farhead, this
 >action causes you to have the emotions the entity wants to
 >elicit, the physical feelings he (she or it) wants you to have
 >and that includes a sexual response and last, the entity may
 >cause you to remember what never really happened and plant
 >that memory as being real.  It can cause you to recall that
 >which it wants you to recall.

 >It ain't no fun because on one level, you know what is happening
 >and cannot do a thing about it.

 >It's about control.  Yours.  Namely it ain't.  And during those
 >times, just like the times (and they've been few for me) when
 >one is witness to a sighting of a UFO, without apparent
 >abduction, you are fixed in place, unable to do much of
 >anything.  Most especially that which under normal conditions,
 >you would do, you won't do in that state.

 >It's almost as if everything, including time, stops right then
 >and there.

 >Now, Mr. Randle and Mr. Klass and Mr. or Ms. Whomever, go ahead
 >and tell me it never happened.  Tell me I'm gay, or that I am
 >having a waking dream or one of those sleep disorder thingies,
 >sleep paralysis or whatever.

 >Then, when I laugh or otherwise react in anger, you won't mind
 >all that much.  One thing is certain however, that those of you
 >who know squat about what you are talking about can still do so
 >with a straight face, as if you had all the answers.  To an
 >abductee or to a witness, it all sounds so lame it isn't funny.
 >In fact, it's pathetic.  Try harder folks.  You ain't there yet.
 >Hell, you ain't even close.

Jim,

[what I construed as 'attack' deleted --ebk]

Reading your mail people might get the impression you are the
be-all and end-all of abductions.

You ain't gonna get no answers by whinging on about it.

[And _you_ aren't contributing to the knowledge base here with
  remarks like that --ebk]

I get the impression that it is you who know 'squat' concerning
the original mail I posted.

[I didn't see your name or address mentioned in Jim's post
  --ebk]

I am not arguing as whether anyone has or has not been abducted,
just because I haven't been abducted doesn't mean I can't
investigate it using my own skills.

As I basically said earlier, based on the description given by
what must be by now thousands of people, I made a 3D model
(using Lightwave 3D 5.5 for those interested) of the typical
alien head.

I found the eyes to be of impossible size.

Thankfully there have been many 'constructive' replies.

Brian Cuthbertson and Lesley Cluff with the built-in sunglasses
or night-vision optics idea Mac Tonnies with the automaton idea
(which personally I thought was very interesting)

Thomas E Morris wrote:

 >My impression of the alien appearance is that it is not real.
 >Maybe some kind of suit or mask to allow them free travel in our
 >environment. Maybe something else, but I never felt that it was
 >flesh & bone. The eyes are a part of this wardrobe.

Cinde Costello wrote:

 >I can't speak for everyone who has seen them but my own
 >observations showed me that they look incredibly odd.  They are
 >more flat than round, almost too big, they have no pupils that I
 >saw and no facial features to speak of.  I would swear they wear
 >some kind of one-piece suit that encompasses the head due to
 >their lack of wrinkles, expressions, facial (or even fine body)
 >hair, etc.

This by the way comes from an abductee like yourself (maybe you
consider her to be lame like the rest of us). [Assumption --ebk]

All these people and more are open to debate.

Then of course we have the inevitable 'Jim mail' which generally
consists of:

"You're all a bunch of idiots, only I know the truth, you are
all pathetic".

[Since you are using quotes I assume you are quoting Jim
  directly? I also assume you have the original message from
  which the 'quote' came? If not stop putting words into
  Jim's 'mouth' and stick to the facts or face the 'wrath' of
  the moderator --ebk]

Sleep it off Jim, in the mean time at least we're doing
something.

[And you, Dave, back-off and stick to discussion and refrain
  from assumptive criticism. This is your only warning --ebk]

Dave.









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:00:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:58:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:52:31 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Re: The Eyes Have It

 >>From: Dave Bowden
 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:16:43 +0000
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:32:38 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It

Hi Roger,

 >Have you considered that each eye of the alien might me an
 >"array" much like the eyes of a fly? Since witnesses indicate a
 >lack of visible pupil, perhaps each eye is made up of hundreds
 >or thousands of individual "tiny eyes" that rotate in unison.

Yes I have considered this, but if you look at the eye of a fly
you'll notice how far it extends from the head, and it is
noticeable to the observer that the eye is segmented.

 >I'm a graphic artist, also.

Always nice to speak to a fellow professional, what software do
you use?

I have an old website at:

http://wkweb4.cableinet.co.uk/dbowden/

I am no longer with Cableinet but they still have the website
running (the email button doesn't work anymore though).

I'm in the process of making a new site for uploading to
Netscapeonline. There's a little bit but not a lot to do with
UFOs there but at least it will show I know 3D.

 >Take care,

you too

Dave.








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:12:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:02:29 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >From: Ed Gehrman
 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:15:32 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:15:38 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:13:07 -0600
 >To: Roger Evans
 >Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, I had written the following regarding Ed's view of
evidence presented by anyone on this list that AA could be fake:

 >And what would it prove to
 >you anyway? Your fallback position would simply be that just
 >because they figured out how to do it doesn't mean that's how it
 >was done!

Ed replied:

 >Bring me some proof and then we'll see how I react.  So far, no
 >proof. No proof, no "case closed".

Ed, this is your lucky day. You win!

I am tired of your little dance around the obvious. You demand
evidence.

People give you plenty of evidence. You then turn your nose up
and say, "Now give me proof!" When some one gives you proof such
as Ray's "lies", then you maintain that it's _not_ proof because
his lies could be taken a variety of ways. And what is your
evidence?

Your evidence is that "Ray seems like an honest man".

Just like the "Doctors sure seem like real doctors."

Is this _your_ evidence, Ed?

This discussion is going nowhere....

You win. The alien is real. The film is real. Ray told the
truth.

I am convinced there is no proof in this known world that will
convince you otherwise.

Later,

Roger Evans








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                   Re: History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now'

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:24:18 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:09:03 -0500
Subject: Re: History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now'


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:39:56 -0400
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now'
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >History Channel 'UFOs Then and Now' starting January 31.

 >I had a call from one of the producers of a series of 4
 >one-hour shows for the the US History Channel starting
 >Monday, January 31, at 9:00 p.m., Eastern, I believe.

 >I know that Dick Hall, Rob Swiatek, Dr. Richard Haines, Dr.
 >Kevin Randle and myself are in some of the programs among many
 >others. I don't know if any of the nasty noisy irrational
 >negativists were interviewed.

 >Stan Friedman


May I offer, sir, ". . . the nasty and noisily non-rational
negativists were interviewed." -- in place of your last sentence
above? <g>.



Lehmberg@snowhill.com

--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 22 January>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.







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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:55:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:11:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:07:57 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I don't remember the exact date. I have it written down
 >somewhere in my files. I know it was the First part of Sept.,
 >1967. The time was approximately 8:45 PM

Mike,

The exact date would be of interest to those of us who have
extensive UFO databases. Maybe someone else saw the same
objects.

Kind regards

Victor J.Kean
Project FT








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:07:12 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:02:26 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:19:29 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >..... and the flogging of the dead horse continued:

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:07:31 +0800
 >>From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>Second, the same effects guy who made the Roswell movie aliens
 >>did *another* alien corpse for ABC's 20/20 program after the AA
 >>footage came out. This was a recreation to show how it could be
 >>done. I believe the same guy did yet another recreation for
 >>Scientific American. Very, very convincing footage which had
 >>organ removal and examination procedures shown clearly and
 >>accurately.

 >Actually, the firm that made the mock-up sold them to the public
 >for a couple of years after the movie was released. The Sharper
 >Image catalog carried it form several thousand dollars and I
 >have no idea as to how many they sold.

<snip>

Hi Steve, and all,

A couple of years ago, I went by the Sharper Image store here in
Atlanta to see their product.  I suppose you can't expect a lot
for a little under one grand (US); but, even from a distance,
these "Roswell, the Movie" reproductions looked were poor.  I
could see the seams on the side of the dummy.

Also, thanks to Theresa Carlson, I have a copy of all the
"reproductions" of the AA film and none compare (she titled it
"They Said It Was Good").  As one who was originally a believer
in the film, who is now close to the fence but definately on the
"doubter" side, none of these secondary attempts could have
fooled these rumey eyes.

BTW, her best evidence that the AA Film was a production was
"disappearing blood".  There were spots and drips of blood which
disappeared or changed in an improbable way which indicated that
multiple "takes" were involved in the Film.  Some have argued
against this evidence by saying that the film segments were out
of order; but, those arguments do not stand up to close
scrutiny.  No one did as much research on the video itself as
Ms. Carlson.

Regards,

Terry

(Iced in with ten cases of Gripple awaiting the Super Bowl.)









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:39:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:11:49 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:07:31 +0800
From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 > The AA corpse
 >is very stiff, and, dare I say it, rubbery.

Yes that's their nature; corpses can feel and sometimes
look...stiff and rubbery. They're dead, no life. That changes a
lot. But as in life, not all corpses look the same.

I found the remainder of your post interesting and informative.
I am _not_ an authority on the AA. I do _not_ have all the
answers. This discussion is intended to make folks realize that
the case against the AA is not solid and should not be closed.
My intention for hanging in there is to keep the door open for
new information. I know I can't prove that the AA is legitimate.
That was not my intention. I have stated many times that I
believe it to be what Ray and the Cameraman say it is... but I
have no proof, only circumstancial evidence.

The skeptics, on the other hand, have called the AA a pile of
crap and have created a situation that keeps the AA from being
given serious consideration. (and they have no proof)

I'm trying to collect all the objections and research that has
been conducted by others. To do this I have to expose myself and
take chances. Your information is welcome and helpful. Thanks...
but keep your mind open. BTW did you have a chance to check out
the "discussion of the debris" that was posted awhile back? Do
you know of any sites that discuss the debris in depth?










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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:59:48 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:17:03 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:12:43 -0600
From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
To: updates@sympatico.ca


Roger,

 >Ed, this is your lucky day. You win!

I had no intention of winning. All I was after was that this
list, at least, keep an open mind to the possibility that the AA
is what Ray and the cameraman say it is. Nothing more. So when
someone writes that the eyes of the creature are thus and so,
you don't go yelling that we shouldn't consider the creature
because its been PROVED a fake. If you are conceding that you
now are open to at least considering that possibility, then we
both are winners.

I make mistakes; I've made several in some of my posts to this
list. I'm glad you and others have pointed them out. I'll try
not to make the same mistakes again.

And thanks Errol for letting this discussion drag on. Maybe now
it'll head in another direction.

Ed








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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:58:57 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:22:59 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:05:26 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:53:00 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:35:52 -0600
 >>>Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:07:07 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

 >>>And speaking of examples, I would say the above is about as
 >>>succinct a statement of the problem of not wanting to think very
 >>>hard about the abduction phenomenon, or of throwing the feeblest
 >>>of pseudoexplanations at it. Eddie Bullard puts it well (The
 >>>UFO Encyclopedia, second edition, page 22):

 >>>"Standards of evidence grow lax among sociocultural theorists
 >>>who satisfy themselves with the discovery of antecedents.
 >>>Shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief, science fiction,
 >>>and movie imagery, these theorists bring home endless analogies
 >>>of dubious worth.

 >>Jerry, List:

 >>Noticing that three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens from
 >>another world who have come here in spaceships are traditional
 >>figures in 20th Century science fiction and also in some
 >>abduction accounts of three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens
 >>from another world who have come here in spaceships hardly
 >>qualifies as "shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief,
 >>science fiction, and movie imagery for endless analogies of
 >>dubious worth".

 >Dear Bob:

 >Nobody I know of has addressed the possibility of beings with an
 >odd number of digits on one hand, and an odd number of digits on
 >the other,

 >Given Velcro fingertips, they could not only abduct people, but
 >throw honest researchers off the scent as well.

 >Given the highly advanced technology of alien societies,
 >they must know something about Velcro.

 >PS:  They must be bored with Teflon by now.


No, Lawrence of Hatch, a recent survey of gay aliens
performed by the famous Gripple Institute, demonstrates
that aliens who are gay prefer teflon in their anal probes
three to one.

On the one hand.

One the other, there is one less finger because, well, all of
the aliens to a man (well, actually to a thing, as God made them
neither male nor female but what they themselves call - sthilly,
which I suppose makes them effeminate.  Sorry, I digressed)...
anyway, they are given one less finger on that one side because
they are all lefties and rarely use the right index finger.  As
a result, only the middle one exists.

This unusual feature throws off researchers every time, hee,
hee.  Every time.

Yet again, the Gripple Institute scoops Rinse, Kanappy, Bells
Palsey and, Dr. Laura on this important issue. Let the games
begin.

Jim Mortellaro








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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:24:42 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:24:42 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:05:26 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:47:44 -0500
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:53:00 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Nobody I know of has addressed the possibility of beings with an
 >odd number of digits on one hand, and an odd number of digits on
 >the other,

<snip>

Larry, all:

Yep, can you imagine, say, three fingurs on one hand and ten on
the other? Of course one might have ETs that have been
disfigured or, like hermit crabs, have ten fingers on one hand
and one GIANT finger on the other. Ha! Maybe we shouldn't go
there.

But, seriously, John Carpenter first called my attention to this
"three-fingured" issue of "secret datails" in his article,
Double Abduction Case: Correlation of Hypnosis Data, Journal of
UFO Studies, New Series, Vol. 3, 1991, pp 103-104.

Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:34:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:27:52 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:56:34 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:44:24 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Dear Listers, this is merely a general comment, one not directed
 >>at Lesley or Harry or anyone in particular, except you. And you
 >>know who you are.

 >>Key words here folks is "stare." Once you've been stared at
 >>by one of these critters who are especially adept at it, it's
 >>like the "Mind Meld" only more. The entity gets up really close
 >>and stares at you. Nose to nose and farhead to farhead, this
 >>action causes you to have the emotions the entity wants to
 >>elicit, the physical feelings he (she or it) wants you to have
 >>and that includes a sexual response and last, the entity may
 >>cause you to remember what never really happened and plant
 >>that memory as being real. It can cause you to recall that
 >>which it wants you to recall.

 >>It ain't no fun because on one level, you know what is happening
 >>and cannot do a thing about it.

 >>It's about control. Yours. Namely it ain't. And during those
 >>times, just like the times (and they've been few for me) when
 >>one is witness to a sighting of a UFO, without apparent
 >>abduction, you are fixed in place, unable to do much of
 >>anything. Most especially that which under normal conditions,
 >>you would do, you won't do in that state.

 >>It's almost as if everything, including time, stops right then
 >>and there.

 >>Now, Mr. Randle and Mr. Klass and Mr. or Ms. Whomever, go ahead
 >>and tell me it never happened. Tell me I'm gay, or that I am
 >>having a waking dream or one of those sleep disorder thingies,
 >>sleep paralysis or whatever.

 >>Then, when I laugh or otherwise react in anger, you won't mind
 >>all that much. One thing is certain however, that those of you
 >>who know squat about what you are talking about can still do so
 >>with a straight face, as if you had all the answers. To an
 >>abductee or to a witness, it all sounds so lame it isn't funny.
 >>In fact, it's pathetic. Try harder folks. You ain't there yet.
 >>Hell, you ain't even close.

 >Jim,

 >[what I construed as 'attack' deleted --ebk]

 >Reading your mail people might get the impression you are the
 >be-all and end-all of abductions.

 >You ain't gonna get no answers by whinging on about it.


Hi, Jim, Dave, (ebk!)

I've noticed myself that there's nothing worse than one of these
"uppity" abductees. As long as they're walking with their heads
down and eyes averted, properly donning the yoke of insanity,
stupidity, or lately, (and not that there's anything wrong with
that) homosexuality, _and_ they're quiet about it, then I guess
they're ok. But this is high level, complex _speculation_ here,
Jim... stuff you couldn't possibly understand or be part of.

You're supposed to shut up until one of the skeptical experts
makes a final diagnosis about you. Get it? From now on, no more
whining from the inmates - and get back to your room! <G>

Best,

Bill









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:40:03 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:33:14 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:56:34 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:44:24 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Dear Listers, this is merely a general comment, one not directed
 >>at Lesley or Harry or anyone in particular, except you. And you
 >>know who you are.

 >>Key words here folks is "stare." Once you've been stared at

 >>Deleted almost everything because:
 >>1) It is embarrassing
 >>2) Not important to this post

 >Sleep it off Jim, in the mean time at least we're doing
 >something.

Dear Everyone for whom I've made shoes, except me, I still
go barefoot...

The first line is rather persuasive against any angst, directed
or otherwise. As for whining, nah, I just don't think so. Maybe
a little mew once in a blue moon. But even rarely that.

However, if EBK will allow this, I wish to state, categorically,
that the one thing I am not, is an expert or even an ex-spurt. I
don't know, claim to know or even remotely resemble one who has
the truth, knows the facts or claims knowledge in this subject.
I just tell it like I perceive I've experienced it.

Really!

And again, if EBK permits, I want to expand on a point. It is
the issue of the "Darth Vader" stare or mind meld or whatever
one chooses to call it. It is merely an example of how I and
several of my perceived abductee associates claim to have
experienced it. So I know I am not alone in this, as it has been
independently reported. But wait, there's more!

The head bug, gray, big-eyed monster from Mongo, whatever, does
not have to get in your face in order to gain control. Not at
all. If one is in their presence, under their control so to
speak, then it is extremely easy for them to get you to do
exactly what they want you to do. No whining, nothing said
about, "Finally, the truth about their eyes revealed!" Nothing
like that. But I recall one particular time when I was in their
presence, under their control, that I was asked (silly me, it
was a hell of a lot more than merely asking me) to view
something. What I was asked to view is not relevant, and hell,
if I tell you, you are only gonna go ballistic on me anyway, so
suffice to say, I was asked to look at and study something. By
God, man, I just stuck me face up to that surface they told me
to study and I looked and strained and studied as if my forkina
life depended on following those orders. I only wish the
critters would offer videos of us doing stuff they "ask" us to
do. We do it with such an intensity of will that it scares the
crap out of me even now. But it is most likely funny as hell to
witness us doing it.

I don't know _squat_ about their eyes. I don't care about their
eyes. I damn their black eyes. Never said anything about what
they were made of. Never commented on or would, because I
haven't a clue.

However, in fairness to you Dave, I have gotten pretty upset at
some guys on this list. I have, on one too many occasions
pressed "send" when I shoulda' squeezed my crotch instead.

But I never did that relative to any of your comments. You
obviously feel very strongly about this issue. Fine. If you find
out, please let us know. But know this. I love you, Dennis Stacy
and even the great J. Jaime Gesundt. Because without folks like
you, I'd have nothing to do but whine at home. And the ever
patient Rosie, my beloved of almost (1-1/2 months away on the
Ides of March) has up with me been putting, for thirty-one
years.

Surely you can do the same for one post.

If not, then may I suggest that you sleep it off? But first, you
gotta get really blitzed. If you are still ticked off at me
aftter reading this, allow me to present you with the latest in
mind bendingly soothing elixir of the gods. I call it, Gripple
Codone. Codein and Gripple in a highly sweetened mixture
containing a little smack and some thorazine as well as the
codein. But just enough to paralyze you until the shaking stops.

Jim Mortellaro








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                              Naked With Aliens

From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:51:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:37:44 -0500
Subject: Naked With Aliens


From: Mike Farrell <vidhunter@hotmail.com>
To: <Aussiepost@listbot.com>; <ausufo@listbot.com>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:01 PM
Subject: "naked with aliens"

The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia -
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw/new


__________________________________

PATTERNS OF UFO ABDUCTIONS, PART 1
By Budd Hopkins

Anyone familiar with the subject is aware that UFO abduction
reports almost always include accounts of physical examinations
performed inside the craft. The abductee usually lies naked and
immobile on a flat table while one or more of a wide variety of
physical operations are carried out. There is, however, one
virtually universal detail in these procedures that has never,
to my knowledge, been commented upon in the literature: the
abductee never seems to feel any degree of shame or
embarrassment about his or her nudity.

One woman told me that during an abduction in her very early
adolescence - usually a time of great shyness and confusion
about one's body - she felt no more concern about her nakedness
in the occupants' presence than she would have felt in the
presence of her cat or her tropical fish. This fact is even more
surprising when one considers the many accounts in which several
humans - sometimes strangers to one another - are naked together
in the same craft. The woman in my example had been abducted
along with an older brother and a younger sister; all three were
nude yet none seemed to feel anything at all about their shared
and vulnerable condition.

Fear of the UFO occupants alone does not explain this
surprising, even unnatural reaction. There are a number of
photos of Nazi concentration camp victims who, after having been
taken from their inhuman cattle-car transport, were ordered to
strip. The photographs reveal that even under these
circumstances these sad, weak, doomed men, women and children
still instinctively attempted to cover their nudity with their
hands and arms. But with UFO abductees something else, some kind
of tranquilizing factor, seems to be at work.

One can speculate that the abductees' calmness about their
nakedness results from a combination of quasi-hypnotic trance
states, endemic to the abduction process, and simple
conditioning. If one has been abducted regularly since early
childhood and has each time been undressed throughout the
experience, one may come to expect it as a norm. A male abductee
once put it to me this way: "That's just the way it is. Your
never have your clothes on. You don't even think about it."

What insights can we derive from the abductees' oddly neutral
reaction to their state of nakedness, a state apparently devoid
of any sexual overtones or embarrassment? First of all, the
consistent appearance of this unexpected detail virtually
destroys a basic argument invented by UFO debunkers. Many
psychological theorists, both professional and amateur, have
attempted to explain away all UFO abduction reports as fantasies
of one kind or another.

The most popular current version of this theory has it that
people invent these accounts to mask such disturbing events as
childhood sexual abuse, incest, molestation at the hands of
doctors, nurses or baby sitters, or rape experiences. Other
theorists posit a questionable borderline abductee type which
they call, grandiloquently, the "fantasy-prone personality,"
while still others simply insist that these accounts are nothing
more than disturbing dreams. If any of these theoretical
"explanations" were true for even half the UFO accounts that
have been carefully investigated so far, one would expect to
find strong erotic overtones or outright shame and embarrassment
described by literally hundreds of abductees as they recall
their naked condition. IF an abductee account is nothing more
than a fantasy masking a rape or childhood seduction or
molestation, the circumstances of undressing or being forcibly
undressed should provide key traumatic moments in these
narratives. Such, however, is not the case.

The near-universality of this detail not only eliminates any
blanket psychological "explanation" of UFO abduction accounts,
but it also argues for the hard-edged, precise reality of this
bizarre phenomenon. These consistent reports of totally
unexpected, non-emotional reactions to enforced nudity clearly
provide powerful psychological evidence that thousands of people
have undergone the same externally-caused, trance-like
experience - abduction, control and examination by non-human UFO
occupants.

__________________________________

PATTERNS OF UFO ABDUCTIONS, PART 2
By Budd Hopkins

For centuries, thoughts about our anatomy have centered on one
organ above all others -- the human heart. Our language speaks
of "the heart of the matter," "heart and soul," "having, taking,
or lacking heart." The ubiquitous, schematized, twin-chambered
heart image appears in the guise of candy-boxes, valentine cards
and initialed love messages carved into ancient oaks. We are
more familiar with medical operations involving the heart than
with any other kind of surgery. Double- and triple-bypasses,
heart transplants, artificial valve implants, open-heart surgery
and so on are now, literally, phrases in everyday conversation.
To hunter, soldier and swordsman alike the heart is the most
vulnerable organ -- "aim for the heart, not the head," because
the brain, obviously, can survive damage that the heart cannot.
Though we try to be of "stout heart," we know this precious
organ is extremely vulnerable, and that the chances are great
that many of us will die, one day, from its failure.

For any child visiting a doctor for physical examination, one of
the most familiar and central procedures occurs when the
physician listens to the patient's heart through a stethoscope.
In later years many of us will have repeated experiences with an
electrocardiogram -- an "EKG" -- during our routine checkups.
And clearly the majority of our day-to-day, health-oriented
dietary choices are made because of our concern for the
well-being of the heart as the center of the cardiovascular
system.

How do these facts relate to the issue of UFO abductions? I have
now worked, personally, with perhaps three hundred abductees,
and I am acquainted with many others through published accounts
and the reports of colleagues. In these hundreds upon hundreds
of UFO abduction accounts, I have yet to hear anyone state that
the UFO occupants paid the slightest attention to an abductee's
heart during the physical examination procedures that routinely
occur during these encounters. The aliens' interest is almost
invariably focused upon the abductee's genitals and lower
abdomen. There are frequent additional "operations" involving
the abductee's head, and in particular the nasal cavity, the
eyes and ears. We also occasionally hear of procedures having to
do with the feet, the major joints and the rectum. But never,
ever, the abductee's heart. What can we infer from this rather
startling fact?

First, it means that the organ we universally consider to be of
supreme importance to the health and longevity of the human race
is apparently of no interest whatsoever to the alien race,
whatever that may be. I have said from the beginning of my
investigations into the abduction phenomenon that the UFO
occupants are following their own agenda, since there is not a
shred of evidence that they are concerned with improving the
general health and well-being of their human subjects. Despite
the aliens' apparent concern with minimizing the psychological
damage these abductions invariably inflict, their forcible
taking of human sperm and ova seems to be exclusively for their
benefit rather than ours. Nothing to the contrary has, so far,
been explained to us, and at no time has our permission for
these operations been asked or received. The UFO occupants
simply take, while ignoring our simplest and most basic human
rights and wishes.

A second inference to be drawn from the peculiar absence of
references to the human heart in UFO abduction reports has to do
with the veracity of the accounts themselves. Skeptics and
armchair theorists of every stripe, casting about for any
possible mundane explanations of UFO abduction reports, often
claim that these narratives are merely fantasies -- nothing more
than hopes and fears and recollected everyday experiences mixed
together by emotionally unstable individuals. Now we all know
that both fantasies and real-life experiences are incredibly
various -- and as complex as human beings themselves. And so if
the UFO abduction scenario was only the product of this
virtually infinite spectrum of human fantasy and experience, the
human heart, our perceived anatomical center, would be turning
up again and again as a major object of interest in imagined
alien physical examinations.

We should be hearing countless tales of miraculous -- or ominous
-- alien heart operations, involving mysterious and widely
varying alien equipment. Peculiar-looking EKG's, exotic
stethoscopes, in fact an unbounded world of imaginary machinery
would emerge in thousands of different fantasy descriptions of
an extraterrestrial study of the human heart. But as we have
seen, such fanciful heart examinations are never reported.
References to the human heart never -- never -- turn up in these
abduction accounts.

And so the objective mind must necessarily ask: IF the entire
UFO abduction phenomenon is only the sum total of many different
individuals' fantasies, why do all these thousands of
descriptions of alien physical examinations ignore with absolute
consistency the one part of our body about which we are, in
real-life medical situations, most centrally concerned?

The reason is obvious: abduction reports are not the product of
individual fantasy. Like it or not, the abductees are recalling
the simple, staggering truth about real experiences. And that
staggering truth conceals the unexpected fact I discussed
earlier: that despite their interest in the process of human
reproduction, the UFO occupants apparently have no interest at
all in the central organ of the human cardiovascular system. The
universal absence of this one major detail in all UFO abduction
accounts -- a first-rate example of "negative" consistency --
effectively demolishes the skeptics' mundane "fantasy
explanation" for the UFO abduction phenomenon.

An unhappy -- one might say "disheartening" -- parallel exists
between the two basic inferences I have made: It would seem that
the aliens, by concentrating upon their own genetic and
reproductive agenda, are indifferent to our physical health and
general well-being, while some skeptics, by clinging to their
debunking theory at any cost, are doing violence not only to
truth itself but also the psychological well-being of those who
have suffered from these traumatic UFO experiences. By blaming
the victims, as it were, these skeptics force abductees to
suffer twice -- once from the abductions themselves and then
once more, later, at the hands of those who accuse them of
merely inventing fantasies.

But the evidence, now, is clear. To continue referring to these
thousands of consistent reports as mere fantasies is not only to
ignore the truth but also to risk acquiring a new and ironic
adjective: the skeptic's behavior to his fellow man may now
truly deserve to be thought of as "heartless."

=====











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                 TMP News: News Briefing - January 29, 2000

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:02:54 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:51:22 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing - January 29, 2000



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 29, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.29.00



QUANTA
Science and Technology


New Findings Support Prospect Of Life On Jupiter's Moon Europa
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/newfindings.html

New Energy in Debate Over Alien Life
http://www.msnbc.com/news/362046.asp

Clinton to Urge Big Boost for NASA
http://www.space.com/space/nasa_boost_000127.html


EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

Cydonia: Questions That Beg Explanations if Skeptics are to
Maintain Null Hypothesis
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/cydoniaquestions.html

More UFO Photos from Mexico
http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html

Benefactors Help Fund Derrel Sims' Continuing Implant Research
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/simsfunding.html


DREAMLAND
Government Secrecy and Black Projects

US Aid Was Diverted To Fund Russian BioWar Program - NY Times
http://www.afpc.org/faa/faaindex.htm

Exposure of NASA/Russian Funding Deception and Fraud, by James
Oberg
http://www.spectator.org/archives/98-08_oberg.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:17:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:52:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To



 >Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility To  Scientists
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Maybe not. Some people are hard to convince.  After all, not
 >every unbeliever is a Saint Thomas.  Some are Judas Priests.

 >Jim Mortellaro

Jim

Never a truer word said in jest.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:23:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:55:12 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:53:00 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:35:52 -0600
 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:07:07 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

Bob,

 >>And speaking of examples, I would say the above is about as
 >>succinct a statement of the problem of not wanting to think very
 >>hard about the abduction phenomenon, or of throwing the feeblest
 >>of pseudoexplanations at it.  Eddie Bullard puts it well (The
 >>UFO Encyclopedia, second edition, page 22):
 >>"Standards of evidence grow lax among sociocultural theorists
 >>who satisfy themselves with the discovery of antecedents.
 >>Shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief, science fiction,
 >>and movie imagery, these theorists bring home endless analogies
 >>of dubious worth.

 >Noticing that three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens from
 >another world who have come here in spaceships are traditional
 >figures in 20th Century science fiction and also in some
 >abduction accounts of three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens
 >from another world who have come here in spaceships hardly
 >qualifies as "shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief,
 >science fiction, and movie imagery for endless analogies of
 >dubious worth".

 >Sounds like a home run, to me.

Looks like three strikes, no balls, to me.

I'd be interested in exactly what _aren't_ "traditional figures
in 20th Century science fiction."  Considering that hundreds of
millions of words of SF -- possibly many more (who's counting?)
-- have been published over the past century (depending on where
you start counting), and considering that a whole lot of this
stuff conjures up alien beings of just about every description,
you could easily argue that just about _any_ alien somebody
reports encountering is a "traditional figure" in science
fiction. When real ETs (whether here or elsewhere) are
established to exist, we may safely assume that with the vast
quantity of SF out there, some SF writer, or maybe a number of
them, will have predicted what they look like.

What you're proposing, Bob, is a lazy correlation which, for
another thing, doesn't _begin_ to explain the complex dynamics
of the abduction experience.  No matter.  What's even more
troubling is the application of Von Daniken style reasoning.
Von Daniken would have us believe that just because a painted
figure on a cave wall looks as if it's wearing a spacesuit,
_it_must_be_ wearing a spacesuit.

Jerry Clark










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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: royjhale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:26:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:58:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:53:03 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Dear all,

 >>Since the list is quiet at the moment and the topic of
 >>conversation seems to consist of the AA, Martian face and the
 >>occasional Pelican I thought I would take the opportunity to
 >>share something with you all.


Hi Dave & All,

Sorry I haven't replied to this thread earlier, but my once a
year trip to the Holy ET Shrine being the Alien Religious loving
freak I am, took a wee bit longer this time round! <g>

Concerning the Eyes of the Grey, I am currently looking through
some Archive material of which, I can hope to find the case of
an abductee who mentioned the removal of the Eye of the Grey?

Perhaps like some have said, we could possibly be looking at a
Lens of some kind? And  I have heard of cases where the Eye
opened and closed like a film Lens?

The suit idea might be one to go with as well, but if people are
talking of Germ and virus protection for these guys, then a
Sceptic threw this question at me:

Q: If people are being Abducted by these Greys and experimented
on or probed and having insertions of all kinds, do they
Sterilize all of their tools before use on the next Guy / Girl?
Or have they a way around such problems? And if it is happening
could this be a way of explaining some cases of infections &
Medical problems of abductees?

I guess what he was getting at was the implying of cross Human
Infection through use of dirty tools. Maybe the answer to this
also has something to do with the Suit question?

Thanks Dave for an interesting question!

Roy..          Keep Smiling..









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: ed gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:29:02 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:00:44 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:07:12 -0800
 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Terry,

While Theresa's work on the AA is excellent, some do feel that
if the footage seems to be out of order, then she's only proved
that the rolls are out of order.  I've contacted Theresa and
asked her about this and so far she hasn't responded.

This is an imporant point to get correct.  Do her efforts prove
that the AA is a fake?  That has been implied so lets settle it
now, once and for all,if we can.

You say:

 >Some have argued
 >against this evidence by saying that the film segments were out
 >of order; but, those arguments do not stand up to close
 >scrutiny.

When you say "those arguments do not stand up to close
scrutiny".What are the counter arguments?  Lets see if we can
work this out so the list can agree on exactly what Theresa's
hard work may mean.









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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:33:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:03:48 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:00:39 +0000
 >From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:52:31 -0600
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi Roger,

 >>Have you considered that each eye of the alien might me an
 >>"array" much like the eyes of a fly? Since witnesses indicate a
 >>lack of visible pupil, perhaps each eye is made up of hundreds
 >>or thousands of individual "tiny eyes" that rotate in unison.

 >Yes I have considered this, but if you look at the eye of a fly
 >you'll notice how far it extends from the head, and it is
 >noticeable to the observer that the eye is segmented.

It is also possible that the alien eyeball is not spherical.  A
complex lens could allow ovoid or more complex shapes.

Regards,

Terry








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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Jsmortell@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:43:12 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:07:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:47:52 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Dear Listers, Michael, Lesely and Et., (aka, Dr. Al);

 >>We all get our Ph.D.'s taken away with disgrace when
 >>we look up, see the sight of the century, and forget to
 >>take a picture.

 >>Snipped with a whole lot of respect, 'cause _I_ said them.

 >>Maybe not. Some people are hard to convince. After all, not
 >>every unbeliever is a Saint Thomas. Some are Judas Priests.

 >Dear Jim:

 >If anyone tries to take away either of your genuine Ph.Ds, let
 >me know. I'm looking at a nifty new printer, and I know this
 >maniac who whacks sheep and stuff, and his wife knows how to
 >clean the skins.

 >They were about to make drum-heads of something when I
 >complained about my lack of high credentials.
 >
 >Naturally, you would have to pass the strict standards of the
 >Larry Hatch Ph.D and Storm-Door Company, but that is adjustable
 >to your degree of academic skills and funding.

 >Very best wishes

 >- Larry Hatch

 >PS: I was planning to award myself a few degrees, but fear that
 >might appear unseemly.

Oh no, Larry... Believe me when I tell you that I've been
assigning myself Ph.D.'s for quite some time. Of course, the
only ones I have which are worth anything are NOT created of
sheep whacked skins, but the dried remnants of deceased,
self-centered and immovable researchers. However in my angst,
between Gripples, I have switched to the skins of deceased
researchers who _have_ changed their minds on an issue. But only
when the mind change was not effected by a lizard, another
researcher assisting with the mind changing landmark book or
ketoses prior to becoming such.

And, I want you to know that I love guys. This is required of
me. My dad was heavily involved in Opto/Mechanical Aerospace and
military space systems and specialized in Quality Control and
Reliability and so I understand the value of statistics. And
those say I am gay. Hell, who am I to argue with numbers?

Uh, however the marketing genius in me says that all too often,
numbers can be adjusted to suit the sit-chee-aishun. Like the
time when my brother-in-law invented that new Coke, remember
that?

Where was I? Oh, I remember. I was telling you that you can and
should paper your wall with the sheepish skins of deceased UFO
researchers.

Very truly yours in Grollsch, Gripple and Gin. Ain't it
interesting how everything I like starts with a "G"?

J. Jaime Gesundt, Ph.D. in Goofy.







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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:43:33 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:11:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:55:35 -0500
 >From: Victor J.Kean <VICTOR_J_KEAN@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 07:07:57 -0800
 >>From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I don't remember the exact date. I have it written down
 >>somewhere in my files. I know it was the First part of Sept.,
 >>1967. The time was approximately 8:45 PM

 >Mike,

 >The exact date would be of interest to those of us who have
 >extensive UFO databases. Maybe someone else saw the same
 >objects.


Dear Mike and Victor:

Yes, the exact date would be very helpful, but even an inexact
date might be found if the location were given.

Do you have a physical description of the object(s) and a
precise location in addition to the approx. date?

Best

- Larry Hatch







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Cheyne D. Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:06:04 +0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:14:16 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


Leading a flogged dead horse to water.. : )

 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:19:29 -0500
 >From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >..... and the flogging of the dead horse continued:

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 05:07:31 +0800
 >>From: C D Conrad <chyren23@q-net.net.au>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>I've not even bothered researching this case very much, but know
 >>of several special effects recreations of alien autopsies, some,
 >>to my untrained eyes, very much more convincing than the blurry,
 >>choppy and anachronistic AA film.
 >
 >Indicating, of course, that professional special effects efforts
 >are much better at presentation than the real thing... <g>

Grin noted, but my comments actually indicate that pro sfx
artists are much better at presentation than the semi-pro
guys who made the AA puppet. <VBG>

 >>First that I can think of are the famous aliens from the Kyle
 >>MacLachlan Roswell movie. That predates the AA footage by a
 >>couple of years, but is still a valid example. Now, they didn't
 >>hack those puppets up, but they exist as examples of
 >>considerably more imaginitive and believable aliens than the
 >>ones in the AA movie. And they were articulated! The AA corpse
 >>is very stiff, and, dare I say it, rubbery.

 >Comparing the original to what we "believe" that aliens should
 >look like, or the structure of their dead corpses.

Actually, my point was to answer to Ed Gehrman's claim that the
AA creature was impossible to recreate. Nothing more than that.
Sfx artists have been doing effects like that for a very long
time.

As to the idea that we have a standard belief of what aliens
should look like, that's probably perfectly true. However, in
the case of the AA creature, it doesn't even fit with the
descriptions made by people who allegedly have seen 'real'
aliens, or of those that described the Roswell corpses. It
superficially fits the picture, but the details are off. Six
fingers? Well, maybe real aliens do have six fingers, but I
struggled to find a single witness account of this at the time
the AA movie was released.  Big fat stomach? Looks like they had
a problem with the sculpt, or the person they made the body cast
from was 5+ months pregnant.

Show me an example anywhere in the literature pre-dating the
autopsy flick of an alien that fits the AA creature's
appearance. The only ones that come close are the Hill's
abductors. This is not an aggressive challenge, it's merely my
honest inability to find a correlation. And that was the first
thing that struck me about the AA creature.

 >>Second, the same effects guy who made the Roswell movie aliens
 >>did *another* alien corpse for ABC's 20/20 program after the AA
 >>footage came out. This was a recreation to show how it could be
 >>done. I believe the same guy did yet another recreation for
 >>Scientific American. Very, very convincing footage which had
 >>organ removal and examination procedures shown clearly and
 >>accurately.
 >
 >Actually, the firm that made the mock-up sold them to the public
 >for a couple of years after the movie was released. The Sharper
 >Image catalog carried it form several thousand dollars and I
 >have no idea as to how many they sold.

Nope, I'm not talking about the Roswell sculpt. He made an
entirely new one for 20/20 that was designed to be cut open.
Yes, Steve Johnson (the artist in question) did sell the Roswell
movie puppets, but it's not the one used for the ABC show, nor
for Scientific American. It was very much more realistic (by
which I mean organic looking). It was in a similar style, but
was more of an 'intruders' type.

 ><snip>

 >The problem with all of these re-creations is they were
 >attempting to copy something that had already been seen. Each of
 >these would fail the same analysis that the original "film" had
 >undergone. The German doctor sawed through the alien as if he
 >was cutting meat with a serrated edge, and the camera angles in
 >the Brazillian show (which was by far the best) indicated that
 >it had been shot on a set, and not in a closed room (in the
 >original, all four walls are seen as the camera works around
 >the. . . well, whatever).

The Brazillian show wasn't even _trying_ to fool anyone. It
was made on a tv set, sure. What really should have given
the game away to you, Mr Kaeser, is when the host walked
onto the set right in the middle of the procedure!!

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that
there is nothing spectacular in the nature of the AA creature,
if it is an effect.

 ><snip>

 >Obviously, this is true and has been admitted from the beginning
 >by Bob Shell, Philip Mantle, and Michael Hesemann. The
 >technology is there to recreate the "film", or even produce a
 >better one, so that has never been the real question. The
 >problem has always been the question "WHY?" and to what end.

I assume that question is rhetorical?

You can ask the same about any fraud. The answers are not
always simple. In the case of the Hitler Diaries, for example, it
was partly money, partly hubris and egotism on the part of the
faker; abetted by the gullibility, greed and stupidity of a journalist.

Why does a person lie about a UFO sighting with no chance of
monetary gain? You tell me.

Asking why someone would fake the AA picture seems like a silly
question. It was extremely financially viable. As I mentioned, a
talented fx artist could make the sculpt for under $5000 US.
Plus, look at what the film has done for credibility of our UFO
research. It has set us back probably decades. I know that there
are personality types who do things with no other motive other
than to be iconoclastic, even at great expense. Let us not even
get into conspiracy theories about intelligence agencies trying
to ridicule UFO research.

Mr Kaeser goes on to say:

 >The problem has been that the minor flaws that can be quickly
 >found in the copies have not been found in the original.
 >However, that's not to say that some have questioned the
 >procedures and material used in the original.

Examples, please? If you're talking about something as silly as
mould seams down the side of the thing, well no. But on film,
the obviousness of the material is never apparent.

Actually there are a host of flaws in the original. Technical
flaws spotted in the puppet by fx artists. The body cast was
made from a person standing upright, as is evidenced by the
tensed leg and buttock muscles. A real corpse is flaccid, it's
flesh and muscle sinking onto the surface of the table. The
flesh, when the incisions are made, is not elastic, as is real
flesh, which retracts from the incision. If the alien looks
enough like us to have the same bone structure, knuckles,
toenails, etc, why would it differ in this regard? Also, the
blood trails demonstrate fraud, as was noted by another poster.
That's just three things off the top of my head.

 >But no "smoking gun" to prove that the sequence is a hoax has
 >been found after several years of searching.

Santilli hasn't supplied the evidence to discover the smoking
gun. As soon as we get a strip of film with image from the
autopsy, then we'll be in a position to talk authoritatively on
this point.

 >Every time a
 >supposed problem is identified then research has found that it
 >could well be accurate. Keep in mind that the telephone and
 >clock were seized on as too new to be in a 1947 film, and that
 >coiled phone cords were available at that time. That turned out
 >to be false, and it was found that coiled cords were popular in
 >hospital environments in the late 40's to help keep medical
 >personal from tripping over them.

Two words: body block.

 >If you have something new that hasn't been discussed then you
 >should post it for all to see. The emphasis, of course, is on
 >the word "new".

The point is that certain people are ignoring the 'old'
evidence. Sweeping it under the carpet. Glossing over the
inconsistencies of logic and anachronisms in the film and it's
presentation. One feels the need to repeat old evidence when
people are not paying attention to it.

This film caused _so_ much excitement when it appeared. And it
really did look good for a while. Lots of us thought that this
could be it, this could be the final proof. It's not surprising
that in the light of the shonky way it was presented, and
lacking definitive proof of a hoax, or it's real source, that a
lot of people were extremely deflated, and not a few went into
denial.

 >There are many reasons to believe that the AA "film" is a fraud
 >and a hoax, and it is unfortunate that absolute proof hasn't
 >been found to put this matter to rest. I would agree with Neil's
 >post in that whatever we think of Ray and his provenance for the
 >"film", we are still left with the images that can't easily be
 >explained.

Yes we can; it's a hoax. That's pretty simple. <VBG>

For what it's worth, I don't personally think Santilli was in on
the hoax, if such it was, until later. I don't think his company
made the film.

It is interesting to note that in one of Tim Good's books, it
may have been Above Top Secret or one of the final UFO Reports,
that a US Airforce officer stationed in Puerto Rico (?) is
quoted talking about being shown an autopsy film during a secret
briefing. It was grainy and old, and rather fits the description
of the AA footage. It was said to be a training film, and could
have been a recreation made by one of the more well-equipped
intelligence agencies (don't the NSA have their own film
studios?) Could this point toward the film's origin?

It _could_ be a real film. But it's quite unlikely, given what
we know. I'm not dismissing it totally out of hand, or bashing
it wildly; I'm trying to be objective as possible.

Cheers!

Cheyne D. Conrad
Perth, Western Australia









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                       Re: Who is Alexander Kazantzev?

From: Alex Persky <alexvi@mail.ru>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:59:20 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:17:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Who is Alexander Kazantzev?

 >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:22:04 -0600
 >From: Richard D. Nolane <raynaud@total.net>
 >Subject: Who is Alexander Kazantzev?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >I'm trying to find detailed biographical data on the Russian
 >science fiction writer and ufologist Alexander Kazantzev.

Hi,

Alexander Kazantsev was born September 2, 1906 in Akmolinsk
(Tselinograd). Then his family moved to Petropavlovsk, he
entered school, then to Omsk, where he attended a course of
typewriting and stenography, at the age of 13 he got a job of
typist. In Omsk he got a primary technical education.

In 1930 he finished Tomsk Insitute of Technology. He got a job
of chief mechanical engeneer at the metallurgical plant in
Beloretsk.

The ardor of invention was his permanent attribute. He developed
an idea of intercontinental electric gun, which became subject
of interest of marshal Tuhachevski and Ordzhonikidze.

In 1939 he made an official journey to the USA, his mission was
assembling and installation of equipment at the World Fair in
New York. He wrote an essay about this, it was his first
publication ("The World of Future").

At the years of the World War II he became one of the founders
and leaders of the All-Union Research Institute of
electro-mechanics where he arranged production of
tankettes-torpedoes for the defense of Moscow, and introduced
his new ideas.

In 1946 he became a co-author of the sci-fi scenario "Arenida"
(how mankind used an electric gun to destroy an asteroid
theatening to Earth), and the first literary work gained the
highest score at the all-union competition of sci-fi scenarios.

Many of his scientific forecasts expressed in a form of sci-fi
works are now a reality. For example energy super-accumulators
and superstores, superconductivity, described in his novell "The
Glowing Island" (1939-40), are under development at some
institutes of Russian Academy of Sciences.

Soviet Astronaut G.Beregovoy wrote that Alexander Kazantsev in
his story "Lunar Road" have predicted the construction of
"Lunohod", soviet "lunar tractor", which was developed 15 years
later. His grandiose idea of a 4000 km subwater tonnel ("Arctic
Bridge") has something in common with similar projects in Japan
and Europe.

A subject of ETs and paleo-visitations was one of his special
interests.

Alexander Kazantsev was the one who put forward the hypothesis
that the Tungusska meteorite was an alien starship ("Explosion",
1946), "this was the birth of Russian ufology", as Felix Ziegel
wrote.

 >Kazantzev, born in 1906, was the man in USSR who put forward the
 >idea in 1946 that it was an atomic powered spaceship and not a
 >comet or an asteroid which exploded over Siberia in 1908. He was
 >also an ardent promoter of the astro-archeological theories in
 >USSR. I saw a recent picture of him and he may be still alive.

 >I read somewhere that he was a Colonel, elsewhere that he was a
 >scientist, elsewhere that he was only a successful science
 >fiction writer (3 of his SF novels were translated in France)...

All this is true, but he is not a scientist, he is an inventor.


Sincerely,

Alex










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                  UFO/Fireball Event In Argentina On Jan.25

From: Patricia Mason <pmason@ee.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:25:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:24:40 -0500
Subject: UFO/Fireball Event In Argentina On Jan.25


Dear All,

At:

http://www.farshore.force9.co.uk/n_ovni.htm

I found info on the UFO/fireball event in Argentina on Jan.25
(below). If anybody has additional info on the event, or can
help to contact its investigators, I would like to ask him to
e-mail me.

Thank you in advance,

Sincerely,

Andrei Ol'khovatov,

Russia, Moscow
<olkhov@mail.ru>


Argentine Officials Search for 'Ball of Fire' Impact Site
[Original headline: The police look for a fallen strange object
in Argentine province]

Buenos Aires (AFP) - Police and personnel of official
organizations of the Argentine province of Santiago del Estero
(the northwest) announced Friday that they have been searching
for an unidentified object [OVNI] likened in appearance to a
"ball of fire" that had fallen from the sky last Tuesday
[Jan.25] in the locality of Sachayoc, and was also witnessed in
the neighboring province of Chaco. It caused a violent tremor to
be felt some 450 km to the northeast of the capital Santiago.

In 1982 an explosion followed of a vapor trail in the high
layers of the atmosphere took place in Chaco. Shortly after a
boy appeared at a Corzuela police detachment holding in his
hands a still warm meteorite. [Source originally published:
January 28 2000]









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                  Guests/Stories/Reports For New Talk Show

From: Stefan Duncan <swduncan@netzero.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:31:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:29:16 -0500
Subject: Guests/Stories/Reports For New Talk Show


I am just beginning broadcasting at night over the Net and
wanted to let everyone know that I would like them to send me
their latest UFO sighting reports or opinions, etc on current
events and past.

You can email me at swduncan@netzero.net or call at
910-425-2976.

I am broadcasting two hours a night from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. I am
just beginning the process of initiating guest speakers. If
interested get in touch with me and we will plan a date for a
live interview. I am also accepting cassette tapes if you want
to send a pre-recorded story. I am also accepting stories in
reporter's form. The show is non-profit.

I will also do a UFO calendar for scheduled events like
conferences, etc. Send me the info.

Thanks everyone.

Stefan Duncan

-----
Stefan Duncan
5396 Sumac Circle
Fayetteville, N.C. 28304

ICE 11878618

Stefan Duncan Talk Show

To listen go to our Webster for our station number and click for
a Previewnet player to listen from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. weeknights

http://maxpages.com/stefanduncan AUFON-PI
http://www.aufon.com

Join AUFON_IP mailing list just click

aufon_xpi-subscribe@eGroup.com

The Stefan Duncan Show Talkshow from 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. weeknights









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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:59:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:35:15 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:54:47 -0600
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Neil Morris
 >>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:11:32 +0000
 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:13:19 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:13:07 -0600
 >>>From: Roger Evans
 >>>Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi, Neil!

 >Previously, I had written:

 >>>Regarding such containment suits, I suggest you check out an old
 >>>video called "The Doomsday Chronicles". Within it you will find
 >>>an official, U.S. government produced documentary about a
 >>>partial meltdown in Idaho Falls, Idaho in 1959 or 1960, I'm not
 >>>sure which. This government produced documentary clearly
 >>>demonstrates the proper usage of radiation and bio-hazard
 >>>containment suits as I described to you earlier; two layers,
 >>>self-contained air and all joints taped shut. AA clearly
 >>>violates all these protocols. In fact, the AA suits look more
 >>>like fire fighting rescue gear to me.

 >You responded:

 >>What relevance has this to events _13_years_ earlier?, other
 >>than 17 yrs worth of hindsight put into practice.

 >>At the time of the alleged AA film's events, 1947, there was no
 >>commercial nuclear industry, the world first nuclear reactor had
 >>only been built and run just over 4 years previous (CP-1 Dec 2nd
 >>1942), it would be 1954 before the worlds first nuclear sub and
 >>1955 before the first US town was fed with nuclear produced
 >>electricity (Arcos ID 1955) from a still experimental BWR
 >>reactor. In 1947 these reactors were still just very big Lab
 >>experiments, even the ones producing the raw materials for the
 >>"bombs".

 >Actually, I think it is very relevant. Government development of
 >such things doesn't develop over night. For instance, the
 >stealth aircraft existed for years before we ever "officially"
 >saw one. The general public's perception might be that it was
 >just invented; however we know better than that.

 >Do you really think that the government is going to wait until
 >they've already built a reactor to say, "Gee, our employees seem
 >to be dropping like flies. Maybe we need to consider some kid of
 >protective suits..." I feel confident that what was standard
 >practice in 1959  regarding safety issues was already well
 >thought out many years before in the earliest days of atomic
 >power development. In fact, I really can't imagine how they
 >could work in such an environment with out such forethought.
 >Therefore if, as you mentioned, the earliest reactor was "in
 >operation by 1942", then the experimentation and development
 >would have been started several years before that. Such work
 >would have necessitated some kind of hazard suits. I feel that 5
 >or 6 years is plenty of time to figure out that they need double
 >layers with all seams taped shut and an independent air supply.
 >If anything less was workable, then why change it later? They
 >knew very well what the hazards were long before 1947.

Roger,

This is just _not_ the case here, before 1942 there were _no_
nuclear reactors and _no_ nuclear "business" just a research
project in a lab at Chicago University, that day in 42 under
the stands at the Uni football stadium when the control rods
were inched out of the CP-1 pile to send it critical there
were still reservations the chain reaction would not even be
controlable and the whole pile might runaway!. It was the
first time it had been done in human history, the maths said
it _should_ work and lucky for Chicago it did!.

The point being 1942 was year zero, they had 1 experimental
reactor it ran for 1 year, 43 saw 2 more commisioned I believe,
and CP-1 shut down, by the end of the war there were 3 or 4 in
service all still in experimental lab environments.

In 1947 we were at year 5 of the nuclear age. I think you apply
a degee of sophistication to the known hazards of the nuclear
business far in excess of what they were perceived to be at the
time. _10_ years later in 1957/8 in the atmospheric tests
conducted by the UK Govt on Christmas Island it was thought
unesessary to provide _any_protection _at_all_ for "guinea-pig"
troop brought in to "witness" the blasts even at a range of
_5_miles!_ and with air blast yeald's up to 3 megatons at 1000
feet!

The same year 1957, the UK Atomic Energy Plant/Reactor at
Windscale in Cumbria suffered a fire which released radio-active
dust that covered several hundred square miles, the fire was
fought and brought under control by the local fire dept
_without_ _any_ _protective_ _clothing_ at_all_, not even it
seems issued by the plant itself. Hindsight is a wonderfull
teacher but unfortunatly at the time we are talking of they only
had 5 very sparse years to look back on.

Of general interest, the few survivors still alive of the
Christmas Island tests, so many of whom died later from cancers,
are _still_ having to fight the UK Govt to this day for
compensation for a liftime of illness.

 >Moving on, I had written:

 >>>>>Orderly's are not used in the operating room
 >>>>>under any condition. Operating rooms are restricted to vital
 >>>>>personal only. And just how much "dissection" did you see while
 >>>>>working in the ER, Ed?

 >Ed replied:

 >>>>I worked (as an orderly) at two hospitals in Albuquerque NM while I was
 >>>>attending school at UNM.

 >You wrote:

 >>I'm not wanting to jump to Ed's defence here, I'm sure he's able
 >>to do that for himself but unless _you_ have personal experiance
 >>of operating room proceedures and protocol, you yourself are
 >>gulty of the offence you accuse Ed of, except that _he_ does
 >>claim to have personel experiance of PM operating room
 >>proceedures.

 >>Do you have such experiance?, so giving you firm ground on which
 >>to base your comments.
 >
 >I can only assume in the barrage of AA related posting that you
 >missed my earlier post regarding my experience in the O.R. Early
 >in my career I was both a medical illustrator and a
 >cinematographer assigned to document surgical procedures in the
 >operating rooms at the Texas Medical Center in Houston. Combined
 >with the required gross anatomy classes I completed, this gave
 >me a VERY up close and personal view of work done by surgeons in
 >the O.R. I am very familiar with the work done by real doctors
 >and the AA docs don't walk the walk.

Having no medical background my only comment again is framed at
time scale, we are again allegedly refering to "doctors" trained
in pre-war years, methods and practices change over the years,
back in 1995 in discussions regarding this both sides of the
argument could produce supporters from the medical world for
their case.

 >Continuing, you asked:

 >>Did Bob Shell tell an untruth when in 1995 he passed on the MIT
 >>test results on the AA film/video which concluded _it_ _was_
 >>shot on 24fps film and subsiquently transfered to Euro-PAL video
 >>25fps.

 ><snip>

 >>And I have looked through the _full_ raw footage
 >>(PAL-video)frame by frame.

 >No, I do not imply that Bob Shell lied. However, I do question
 >why he would give a video to MIT as opposed to several video
 >production houses where professionals work with film and video
 >transfers on a daily basis. And I do understand the
 >complications involved regarding the difference between PAL and
 >NTSC. In fact, you'll find a recent post I made pointing out
 >that very problem. However, you say you've looked at the PAL
 >video frame by frame (which I do not doubt). I'm not sure what
 >that really proves since film transferred at 25 fps to PAL,
 >which also runs at 25 fps, would not show any repeated frames;
 >it's a one to one transfer! What did you see? I'm just curious.

On the "raw footage" video nothing of note regarding the film to
video transfer, except for the transfer house's label with
serial numbers on one of the run-in sections, it runs through in
about 3 or 4 frames I seem to remember.

 >Regarding my seemingly endless discussion with Ed; my
 >dissatisfaction on this point is that Ed demanded some kind of
 >evidence showing that the film COULD have been produced on
 >video. When Michael Lennick posted his observation some time
 >back regarding the lack of double frames, I pointed this out to
 >Ed. Although he has written time and again how no one comes up
 >with anything, he has never looked at the video and said, "I see
 >no doubled frames!" My beef is why ask for evidence and then not
 >check out the evidence to see if it exists as stated? Regardless
 >of the conclusion one might draw from the evidence, it's a bit
 >insulting to demand that everyone else jump through hoops and
 >not even bother to pop his copy of AA into the VCR! It's the old
 >"Do as I say, not as I do" form of arrogance that I find so
 >offensive.

Unless he's set up for NTSC/60hz here in the UK he won't see
them on his UK PAL/50hz copy will he.

 >Thanks for the info about early reactor work.

 >Take care,

 >Roger Evans


Best Regards
Neil.

-------------------------------------------------------
                      Neil Morris@Home.

Email:             Neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Web Sites:        Roswell and Alien Autopsy
                   http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
         The Fort Worth Photographs of James Bond Johnson
                http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/ftw-pics/
-------------------------------------------------------









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             Tonight - Lindy Tucker on 'Strange Days... Indeed'

From: EBK
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:03:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:03:40 -0500
Subject: Tonight - Lindy Tucker on 'Strange Days... Indeed'


Tonight on 'Strange Days... Indeed'

   -----------------
  /// Lindy Tucker
------------------

Most of the UFO reports we hear and read about describe 'objects'
flying soundlessly - even those reported 'grounded' are usually
silent. However, as our guest tonight and some of her recordings
will attest, UFOs sometimes _do_ make sounds.

Lindy Tucker is a writer and researcher for P.U.R.E. RESEARCH
(Phenomena Under Reasonable Evidence). She has been collecting
the worlds' largest civilian data base on anomalous accoustical
sounds associated with UFO sightings over the past 25 years.
Further research indicates these to be in the same areas as crop
circles are appearing on the North American continent.

The results of her research have been published internationally
in such publications as the MUFON Journal, Flying Saucer Review,
The Cerealogist, The Bulletin of Anomalous Experience. Lindy
works with leading doctors, psychiatrists, scientists, and
engineers in her quest for answers for the truth

Join Lindy, co-host Jonn Kares and I, along with callers, this
evening at 9:00pm Eastern, as we discuss these Strange Days...
Indeed on:

CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts

6070khz Shortwave

and the Eureka Digital Broadcast System in Toronto.

You can also listen via Media Player at:

www.cfrb.com/

You'll need to access the site using Internet Explorer since
Media Player seems to choke using any version of Netscape -
thanks Mr. Bill!


To call the program dial:

On-Air     416-872-1010
            1-800-561-CFRB
            *TALK [local mobiles]


Errol Bruce-Knapp







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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:11:28 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:16:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:34:34 -0500
 >From: Bill Weber <koran@cchat.com>
 >Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<bigus snipus>

 >Hi, Jim, Dave, (ebk!)

 >I've noticed myself that there's nothing worse than one of these
 >"uppity" abductees. As long as they're walking with their heads
 >down and eyes averted, properly donning the yoke of insanity,
 >stupidity, or lately, (and not that there's anything wrong with
 >that) homosexuality, _and_ they're quiet about it, then I guess
 >they're ok. But this is high level, complex _speculation_ here,
 >Jim... stuff you couldn't possibly understand or be part of.

 >You're supposed to shut up until one of the skeptical experts
 >makes a final diagnosis about you. Get it? From now on, no more
 >whining from the inmates - and get back to your room! <G>

 >Best,

 >Bill


Uh, yassuh, Boss (and a shuffle).  Ah's sorry, Boss.

However there is one thing you forgot, Billy Bud. We are
restricted to the back of the UFO. Cheeses, I hate it when
_that_ happens. (sighs)

Jim Mortellaro








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                  60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Bob Young  <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:17:03 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:42:16 -0500
Subject: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:23:24 -0600
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:55:12 -0500
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

 >What you're proposing, Bob, is a lazy correlation which, for
 >another thing, doesn't _begin_ to explain the complex dynamics
 >of the abduction experience. No matter. What's even more
 >troubling is the application of Von Daniken style reasoning.
 >Von Daniken would have us believe that just because a painted
 >figure on a cave wall looks as if it's wearing a spacesuit,
 >_it_must_be_ wearing a spacesuit.

Jerry:

Please see the drawings made by witnesses in John Carpenter's
article, Double Abduction Case: Correlation of Hypnosis Data,
Journal of UFO Studies, New Series, Vol. 3, 1991, pp 103-104.

Fingers with suction cups are fingers with suction cups, sorry.

There is also a strong suggestion (Martin Kottmeyer, The REALL
News, Vol. 3, No. ll, Nov. 1995) that the movie Communion, which
opened with widespread advertising and publicity three days
after the experience (initially noticed, according to the
witnesses, only because of it's "missing time") but before the
hypnosis session, was the stimulus for key details of their
abduction story. These include the use of a moving platform to
lower the abductees and an operating theater with rows of seats,
curiously mentioned in Streiber's book and in their account.

They were traveling for many miles on a straight road with
bright Jupiter only a couple degrees up right in front of them -
just where they thought a UFO was. (See my letter in the Journal
of UFO Studies, New Series, Vol. 6, 1995/6, p. 227.)

The two hours of "missing time" in this case could be accounted
for by the proven fact that their time was off (the witnesses
thought they saw the Moon but it had set about 45 minutes
earlier), a change in times zones, and their unadjusted car
clock, and several stops along the road to view Jupiter.

Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:04:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:46:53 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:29:02 -0800
 >From: ed gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:07:12 -0800
 >>From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >>Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Terry,

 >While Theresa's work on the AA is excellent, some do feel that
 >if the footage seems to be out of order, then she's only proved
 >that the rolls are out of order. I've contacted Theresa and
 >asked her about this and so far she hasn't responded.

I think T has had her fill of discussions on the Film.

 >This is an imporant point to get correct. Do her efforts prove
 >that the AA is a fake? That has been implied so lets settle it
 >now, once and for all,if we can.

I'm sorry; but, I can't answer that. You see, in my decades of
involvement in the phenomena, I have learned that proof is
subjective. Whether someone considers evidence proof depends on
that individual's world view. I have no doubt that a good lawyer
could prove the existence of intelligent control of UFOs before
a civil jury; however, there will be many observers who
disagree.

 >You say:

 >>Some have argued against this evidence by saying that the
 >>film segments were out of order; but, those arguments do not
 >>stand up to close scrutiny.

 >When you say "those arguments do not stand up to close
 >scrutiny".What are the counter arguments? Lets see if we can
 >work this out so the list can agree on exactly what Theresa's
 >hard work may mean.

I cannot argue both sides of this issue. T's evidence once
resided on http://www.uforeport.com/ however that URL now
returns no DNS. One of the items scrutinized heavily earlier was
whether the sequence of events shown in the original Film
released by Santilli were in order. By following the
examination, cutting, removal of "organs" by the doctors we
concluded that they indeed were in proper sequence.

Also, I have loaned my originals of T's work to Mr. Mantle for
his ongoing efforts. I will be glad to resume this on or off
list when I get them back.

Regards,

Terry








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 30

                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:18:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:00:04 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:23:24 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >What you're proposing, Bob, is a lazy correlation which, for
 >another thing, doesn't _begin_ to explain the complex dynamics
 >of the abduction experience.

Good call, Jerry. Abductees report three-fingered aliens...there
are three-fingered (and suction-cupped) aliens in science
fiction... fine, but even if the abductees encountered the three
fingers in science fiction, how and why did they get so fixated
on the image that they embedded into a belief that they'd had
real experiences? That's the real question.

One possible answer, of course, is that they really did have
real experiences. Maybe -- if we assume, which no one has ever
proved, that the science fiction imagery genuinely affected the
abductees -- it affected them because they'd seen the same thing
in reality. Or maybe the science fiction writers (and film
makers) who adopted the three-finger image are abductees. This
business is far more complicated than Bob Young makes it out to
be (and he's not alone).

Anyone who engages in this debate -- actually, anyone who's
interested in abductions -- should read David Hufford's classic
study of a scary nocturnal experience, "The Terror That Comes in
the Night." Hufford studied a Newfoundland belief, that some
people are visited at night by an "old hag," who puts
frightening pressure on their chests while they lie in bed.
Hufford was able to find numerous Newfoundlanders who reported
this experience, and also found people in Pennsylvania who'd had
it, without the support (or inspiration) in the culture around
them. The experience, whatever it was, seemed genuine, and not
derived from cultural factors.

One explanation Hufford considered was sleep paralysis, which in
one of the last chapters of the book, he examines in great
detail, along with other sleep disorders. He finds many
similarities between sleep paralysis and the "old hag"
experience, but rejects any simple idea that sleep paralysis is
the explanation. Perhaps, he says, the "old hag" experience can
be considered a variety of sleep paralysis -- but sleep
paralysis can't explain its content, and so the experience
remains unexplained.

Not quite the same thing as our science fiction/abduction
conundrum, since Bob Young and others think that science fiction
imagery really does explain at least some of the content of
abduction narratives. The similarity, though, is in how facile
the explanation is, and how little it really explains.

Greg Sandow







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   Jan > Jan 30

                  CPR-Canada News: Update on Colin Andrews'

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:58:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:29:19 -0500
Subject: CPR-Canada News: Update on Colin Andrews'



CPR-CANADA NEWS
The E-News Service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

January 30, 2000

_____________________________



Update on Colin Andrews' Skin Cancer Surgery



STATEMENT - COLIN'S SKIN CANCER
UPDATE - 29 January, 2000

I want to thank you all so very much for your loving and
supportive communications. It has helped me greatly during the
time when I have been anxiously waiting on surgery and results.

Synthia and I are relieved now that the cancer has been removed
from my leg and it is thought that there should not be anymore
problems concerning it.

Today I have one very tender leg but a warm heart and happy
mind. Thank you very much for your concern.

Warm regards

Colin

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the electronic news service of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon
Research International), providing periodic updates with the
latest news and reports, as well as information on CPR-Canada
-related news and events. CPR-Canada News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by CPR-Canada, and is available free
by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International

Main Office

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4  Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522

_____________________________


� Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 2000










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                     Re: TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:24:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:34:22 -0500
Subject: Re: TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 30, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.30.00



QUANTA
Science and Technology

US Government Admits that Nuclear Weapons Plant Workers
Exposed to Radiation
http://CNN.com/2000/US/01/29/nuclear.exposure/index.html

Amazing New Photos From Hubble Space Telescope
http://www.msnbc.com/news/361283.asp

Relaunch of ExoScience (Science and Technology) Web Site
http://www.exosci.com/



BIOSPHERE
Environment

Biggest Snowstorm in Half Century Hits Middle East
http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/hlyland.htm



EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

"Mission to Mars: Let There be Life" - New Blockbuster Movie
Said to Feature Cydonia and Face on Mars
http://movies.go.com/m2m/html/index.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000




Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:24:18 -0700
From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00
To: psa@direct.ca



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 30, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.30.00



QUANTA
Science and Technology

US Government Admits that Nuclear Weapons Plant Workers
Exposed to Radiation
http://CNN.com/2000/US/01/29/nuclear.exposure/index.html

Amazing New Photos From Hubble Space Telescope
http://www.msnbc.com/news/361283.asp

Relaunch of ExoScience (Science and Technology) Web Site
http://www.exosci.com/



BIOSPHERE
Environment

Biggest Snowstorm in Half Century Hits Middle East
http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/hlyland.htm



EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

"Mission to Mars: Let There be Life" - New Blockbuster Movie
Said to Feature Cydonia and Face on Mars
http://movies.go.com/m2m/html/index.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000










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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:59:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:39:05 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >From: Neil Morris
 >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:59:53 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:35:15 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:54:47 -0600
 >>From: Roger Evans
 >>Subject: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Hi Neil!

Previously, I had opined thusly regarding the proper usage of
containment suits:

 >>I feel confident that what was standard
 >>practice in 1959 regarding safety issues was already well
 >>thought out many years before in the earliest days of atomic
 >>power development.

<self snipage>

 >>5 or 6 years is plenty of time to figure out that they need double
 >>layers with all seams taped shut and an independent air supply.
 >>If anything less was workable, then why change it later? They
 >>knew very well what the hazards were long before 1947.

You replied:

 >In 1947 we were at year 5 of the nuclear age. I think you apply
 >a degee of sophistication to the known hazards of the nuclear
 >business far in excess of what they were perceived to be at the
 >time. _10_ years later in 1957/8 in the atmospheric tests
 >conducted by the UK Govt on Christmas Island it was thought
 >unesessary to provide _any_protection _at_all_ for "guinea-pig"
 >troop brought in to "witness" the blasts even at a range of
 >_5_miles!_ and with air blast yeald's up to 3 megatons at 1000
 >feet!


I do not doubt your knowledge of the history of nuclear power
and the such. However, the fact that the troops were
"guinea-pigs" in the first place means that no protection would
have been offered, regardless of such protection's state of the
art at that time.

That is to say, even if double layered, taped-shut, self
contained suits were available (and I'm not so sure they
weren't), would the government have made them available to the
troops you mentioned? I think not. That was, after all, the
purpose of having them "witness" the explosion so close! At
least that's the way OUR government thinks. ;)

Of course, I used the documentary in the Doomsday Chronicles as
one of the earliest references to proper containment suit usage
that came to mind. There may be other training films that
predate it. However, no matter your position regarding just how
much the government knew or did not know about the hazards of
radioactivity, there is really no excuse for improper usage from
a medical standpoint.

Our collective knowledge of nuclear hazards may not have
dictated an air tight suit but certainly the medical field had
plenty of history to learn from. We may have to agree to
disagree on this point but I stand by my convictions that the
suits in the AA film were, from a medical standpoint, useless
and only for show. There was nothing gained by using them that a
simple surgical mask couldn't have done. In fact, they seemed to
make the entire dissection process unduly dangerous.

And on this point, consider the irony: The suits were supposed
to prevent contamination yet, because of poor visibility,
actually increased the likelihood of a possible cut or nick by a
contaminated scalpel. Ask any doctor and he or she will tell you
that such things happen far to regularly under the best of
conditions in the O.R. Protocols may change; the recognized
risks do not.

I do not believe for an instant that a real doctor would even
consider working under such conditions, even if they were in the
military and taking orders.

Continuing, you wrote:

 >Having no medical background my only comment again is framed at
 >time scale, we are again allegedly refering to "doctors" trained
 >in pre-war years, methods and practices change over the years,
 >back in 1995 in discussions regarding this both sides of the
 >argument could produce supporters from the medical world for
 >their case.

I have read that before. However, all the doctors I know that
have seen the footage express the same doubts that I do. I would
love to see the names of known surgeons that would stand behind
the AA footage 100% and say that what they see appears to be
trained medical personnel following common sense safety
protocols about preventing contamination. As yet I, personally,
haven't seen any.

Take care,

Roger Evans








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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:16:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:46:57 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:58:57 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:05:26 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:53:00 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>>Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:35:52 -0600
 >>>>Fwd Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 03:07:07 -0500
 >>>>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

 >>>>And speaking of examples, I would say the above is about as
 >>>>succinct a statement of the problem of not wanting to think very
 >>>>hard about the abduction phenomenon, or of throwing the feeblest
 >>>>of pseudoexplanations at it. Eddie Bullard puts it well (The
 >>>>UFO Encyclopedia, second edition, page 22):

 >>>>"Standards of evidence grow lax among sociocultural theorists
 >>>>who satisfy themselves with the discovery of antecedents.
 >>>>Shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief, science fiction,
 >>>>and movie imagery, these theorists bring home endless analogies
 >>>>of dubious worth.

 >>>Jerry, List:

 >>>Noticing that three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens from
 >>>another world who have come here in spaceships are traditional
 >>>figures in 20th Century science fiction and also in some
 >>>abduction accounts of three-fingered, suctioned-cupped aliens
 >>>from another world who have come here in spaceships hardly
 >>>qualifies as "shopping the vast supermarket of folk belief,
 >>>science fiction, and movie imagery for endless analogies of
 >>>dubious worth".

 >>Dear Bob:

 >>Nobody I know of has addressed the possibility of beings with an
 >>odd number of digits on one hand, and an odd number of digits on
 >>the other,

 >>Given Velcro fingertips, they could not only abduct people, but
 >>throw honest researchers off the scent as well.

 >>Given the highly advanced technology of alien societies,
 >>they must know something about Velcro.

 >>PS:  They must be bored with Teflon by now.

Mortellaro writes:

 >No, Lawrence of Hatch, a recent survey of gay aliens
 >performed by the famous Gripple Institute, demonstrates
 >that aliens who are gay prefer teflon in their anal probes
 >three to one.

 >On the one hand.

 >One the other, there is one less finger because, well, all of
 >the aliens to a man (well, actually to a thing, as God made them
 >neither male nor female but what they themselves call - sthilly,
 >which I suppose makes them effeminate.  Sorry, I digressed)...
 >anyway, they are given one less finger on that one side because
 >they are all lefties and rarely use the right index finger.  As
 >a result, only the middle one exists.

 >This unusual feature throws off researchers every time, hee,
 >hee.  Every time.

 >Yet again, the Gripple Institute scoops Rinse, Kanappy, Bells
 >Palsey and, Dr. Laura on this important issue. Let the games
 >begin.

 >Jim Mortellaro

Hello Jim,

You write:

 >Let the games begin.

Who is playing games here Jim? This thread about Randle and
Estes findings that "60% of abductees are Gay" is a serious
issue. Please tell me how talking about,

"Gripple, Teflon anal probes, surveys of 'Gay aliens' and the
following gobbledy-gook ;

 >"God made them neither male nor female but what they
 >themselves call - sthilly, which I suppose makes them effeminate.
 >Sorry, I digressed)... anyway, they are given one less finger on
 >that one side because they are all lefties and rarely use the right
 >index finger.  As a result, only the middle one exists.

.... has any relevance or contributes to the -serious- subject
at mentioned above?

I have difficulty understanding many of your posts just as
simple 'writing.' There has always been something amiss with the
timing, content, and nature of your "humor." Rather than
'contributing' something of genuine value to the threads (more
often than not) your ramblings have a tendency minimize and to
'distract' attention away from the seriousness of the issues
being discussed/debated.

 >Let the games begin.

No one here is 'playing' at anything Jim. Like a four year old
running amok in a steel mill, sometimes your 'play' and 'humor'
is poorly timed, ill conceived and very inappropriate. As
someone who loves humor and comedy with a genuine passion, I am
mostly offended by the fact that your posts are simply not
funny.

The topic is: "60% of abductees are Gay"

Your 'jokes' are a case of bad timing dude! You're hurting the
cause of your fellow abductees here, not helping it. But we've
been down this road before so I won't belabor the point.

I hope you realize that I intended this as a constructive
criticism and not a 'flame.' It's 'tough' criticism to be sure,
but only a 'criticism' nonetheless.

 From one 'abductee' to another.

Most sincerely,

John Velez



________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 30

                       TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:24:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:59:36 -0500
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 30, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.30.00



QUANTA
Science and Technology

US Government Admits that Nuclear Weapons Plant Workers
Exposed to Radiation
http://CNN.com/2000/US/01/29/nuclear.exposure/index.html

Amazing New Photos From Hubble Space Telescope
http://www.msnbc.com/news/361283.asp

Relaunch of ExoScience (Science and Technology) Web Site
http://www.exosci.com/



BIOSPHERE
Environment

Biggest Snowstorm in Half Century Hits Middle East
http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/hlyland.htm



EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

"Mission to Mars: Let There be Life" - New Blockbuster Movie
Said to Feature Cydonia and Face on Mars
http://movies.go.com/m2m/html/index.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000




Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:24:18 -0700
From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Subject: TMP News: News Briefing 1.30.00
To: psa@direct.ca



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

January 30, 2000

_____________________________



NEWS BRIEFING
1.30.00



QUANTA
Science and Technology

US Government Admits that Nuclear Weapons Plant Workers
Exposed to Radiation
http://CNN.com/2000/US/01/29/nuclear.exposure/index.html

Amazing New Photos From Hubble Space Telescope
http://www.msnbc.com/news/361283.asp

Relaunch of ExoScience (Science and Technology) Web Site
http://www.exosci.com/



BIOSPHERE
Environment

Biggest Snowstorm in Half Century Hits Middle East
http://www.sightings.com/ufo6/hlyland.htm



EXOTICA
Unexplained Phenomena and Forteana

"Mission to Mars: Let There be Life" - New Blockbuster Movie
Said to Feature Cydonia and Face on Mars
http://movies.go.com/m2m/html/index.html


_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing daily news briefings (summarized listings) of
the latest relevant news stories and reports, as well as
periodic information and updates on major breaking news stories
and TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by TMP, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe TMP News" or
"unsubscribe TMP News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca





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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   Jan > Jan 30

                             AL <squared> TV #2

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 16:56:12 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:32:38 -0500
Subject: AL <squared> TV #2


... Did an ancient civilization describe a complete solar system
fifty-five hundred years ago? If so, how?

... get your free RealAudio� player and watch AL <squared> TV in
streaming video. Look for it a few links down on my splash page.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arecibo/46/
                  **<Updated 29 January>**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- Send your checks and
money orders to _me_, Alfred Lehmberg
(cut out the lawyers, they got theirs) at:
304 Melbourne Drive, Enterprise AL, 36330. Strict records kept.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from
afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at the
fundamentalist's stake.








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                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:57:58 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:34:44 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >From: Steven W. Kaeser
 >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:56:17 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:50:45 -0500
 >Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

Previously, I had offered the following regarding the
"containment suits" in AA:

 >>And on this point, consider the irony: The suits were supposed
 >>to prevent contamination yet, because of poor visibility,
 >>actually increased the likelihood of a possible cut or nick by a
 >>contaminated scalpel. Ask any doctor and he or she will tell you
 >>that such things happen far to regularly under the best of
 >>conditions in the O.R. Protocols may change; the recognized

 >>I do not believe for an instant that a real doctor would even
 >>consider working under such conditions, even if they were in the
 >>military and taking orders.

Steven writes:

 >If you accept the cameraman's story, these suits were not really
 >required for safety reasons. I believe that he declined to wear
 >his suit while filming at least one of the procedures, in spite
 >of the fact that the medical personnel wore theirs.


Hi, Steven!

Well, this is sort of the nut of the whole thing. If they
weren't needed then why were they wearing them?

Continuing, Steven offered:

 >I would point out that radiation suits would have been different
 >than bio-hazard suits, which I believe these were meant to
 >represent.

Exactly! And what is a bio-hazard suit that isn't air tight? As
you say, if the alleged cameraman is to be believed, they could
wear them or not. Since they were useless as actual bio-hazard
suits, why on earth would a trained surgeon risk a nick or a cut
due to the poor visibility the suits rendered? This has never
made any sense to me at all.

Moving on, you wrote:

 >About 50% of the doctors that I spoke with (and that really
 >represents very few) thought the sequence shown was of an actual
 >procedure and not a re-creation. However, none were willing to
 >go "on the record" with that statement for fear of their
 >reputations and their not really wanting to get involved. So
 >where does that leave us?

 >There were several doctors involved in some of the early
 >productions that spoke positively about the AA sequences, but
 >they later changed their stories when their claim began to cause
 >them grief in their professions.

I think that they'd be a little more eager to back up the AA
scenario if Ray would do the right thing and give them some
support in return. After all, he wants them to risk their
reputations for his benefit. If he's telling the truth and has
the proof, then I see no risk for any doctor. You'd think Ray
would be just as eager for their support.

Oh. I forgot... The men in black warned him not to say anything.
;)


take care,

Roger







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   Jan > Jan 30

                        Rotating Objects = No Memory

From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:32:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:37:48 -0500
Subject: Rotating Objects = No Memory


Perhaps this explains the phenomenon of alien abduction and
memory processes...?

http://unisci.com/stories/20001/0131004.htm

People Have Little Memory Of Objects That Rotate

New research in the February issue of the American Psychological
Association's Journal of Experimental Psychology: Human
Perception and Performance suggests that while people easily
remember the direction of objects that move toward or away from
them, or past them from side to side, they have virtually no
memory for the direction of objects that rotate.

In multiple experiments, psychologist David Gilden, Ph.D. and
his then graduate student Christy Price of the University of
Texas at Austin, showed 48 undergraduate students
computer-driven objects that moved either right or left across
the screen or rotated clockwise or counterclockwise, or grew
larger or smaller, mimicking the way objects look when they move
toward or away from you.

During the first phase of the experiment, the students studied
the objects as they moved on the screen. The researchers then
showed them the same objects either moving as they had
previously or in a new direction, or with a different motion.

After several experiments, Gilden and Price found that study
participants could accurately recall five minutes later the
direction of the motion of both looming (movement toward or away
from you) and translating (movement from one point to another)
objects but they only performed at the level of chance when
trying to remember the direction of rotating objects.

This is particularly curious because looming motion and rotating
objects both project fairly complicated patterns of movement on
the retina. Looming motions seem to be as complicated visually
as rotations and seem also to be processed in the same area of
the brain. So, if the complexity of the image on the retina
predicts cognitive function, people's memory for looming motion
would be approximately equal to their memory for rotating
motion. But Dr. Gilden's current experiments prove that it is
not.

Why are human beings so poor at remembering the direction of
rotating objects? Dr. Gilden theorizes that being able to judge
a looming or translating object had consequences for people
throughout our evolution.

It was critical, for example, to know whether the animal you
were hunting was coming at you or retreating. But there were no
similar instances that made a memory mechanism for rotating
objects important.

"Apparently," Dr. Gilden concludes, "visual understandings are
not organized in terms of the complexity of what is on the
retina, but rather in terms of what the practical consequences
are for behavior. When it comes to motion, humans are much more
concerned with where things are going than with their
orientation."

Therefore, Gilden concludes that the best way to teach people to
pull a car out of a spin is to teach them rote rules for doing
so, because we do not remember enough about rotations to be able
to control the spinning car based on past experiences.

Dr. Gilden plans to continue to study people's inability to
remember rotating motion in an attempt to find the point in the
visual system where rotating movement is dropped rather then
being passed on to higher cognitive and memory regions of the
brain.

He believes that because rotations held no evolutionary
significance for us, the brain simply developed to ignore them
at highly cognitive levels.

(Article: "Representations of Motion and Direction", Christy M.
Price and David L. Gilden, Ph.D., University of Texas at Austin.
Journal of Experimental Psychology: Human Perception and
Performance. Vol. 26, No. 1.)

Contact: David Gilden, Christy Price

31-Jan-2000







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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Joseph Polanik <jpolanik@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:45:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:40:10 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:18:27 -0500
 >From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: 'UFO UpDates - Toronto' <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Anyone who engages in this debate -- actually, anyone who's
 >interested in abductions -- should read David Hufford's classic
 >study of a scary nocturnal experience, "The Terror That Comes in
 >the Night." Hufford studied a Newfoundland belief, that some
 >people are visited at night by an "old hag," who puts
 >frightening pressure on their chests while they lie in bed.
 >Hufford was able to find numerous Newfoundlanders who reported
 >this experience, and also found people in Pennsylvania who'd had
 >it, without the support (or inspiration) in the culture around
 >them. The experience, whatever it was, seemed genuine, and not
 >derived from cultural factors.

 >One explanation Hufford considered was sleep paralysis, which in
 >one of the last chapters of the book, he examines in great
 >detail, along with other sleep disorders. He finds many
 >similarities between sleep paralysis and the "old hag"
 >experience, but rejects any simple idea that sleep paralysis is
 >the explanation. Perhaps, he says, the "old hag" experience can
 >be considered a variety of sleep paralysis -- but sleep
 >paralysis can't explain its content, and so the experience
 >remains unexplained.

It's important to note that the content of the experience is the
only thing that is not explained by Awareness during Sleep
Paralysis, which Dr. Hufford calls 'sleep paralysis'. He writes:


"Can we say that sleep research has "explained" the Old Hag? No,
we cannot. We cannot because what has been gained has been a
description of physiological events that seem to account for the
production of the state, that is, paralysis in wakefulness,
preceeding or following sleep, during which a complex and
frightening experience may take place. The specific contents of
the experience, however, have not been explained. They seem if
anything more odd than they did before. If they are related to
ordinary dreams by the presence of REM physiology, why is their
content so consistently the same without apparent regard for
culture?" (p. 169)


My analogy is this. People go to see a movie at the neighborhood
multiplex cinema. Some people see a science fiction thriller,
others see a western, a romantic comedy, a horror movie and so
on. A literary critic might comment on what people saw and the
themes expressed in each genre. A scientist or phenomenologist
would notice that the same camera can project any kind of movie.

The point is that cultural influences may well explain the
content of the experience while obscuring the common process
involved with nominally different experiences.

 >Not quite the same thing as our science fiction/abduction
 >conundrum, since Bob Young and others think that science fiction
 >imagery really does explain at least some of the content of
 >abduction narratives. The similarity, though, is in how facile
 >the explanation is, and how little it really explains.

Cultural influences *only* have to explain the content of the
abduction experience and not the state of consciousness in which
it occurs. The only theory that would rival the cultural
influence theory is the literal extraterrestrial hypothesis. If
the ETH isn't literaly true, then we have to explain why it
appears to so many that the abductors are extraterrestrials.




*****************************************************
Joseph Polanik, jpolanik@mindspring.com
Trionic Research Institute, http://www.trionica.com








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   Jan > Jan 31

                  Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:19:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:07:41 -0500
Subject: Re: AA FILM - Another Request From Philip


 >Leading a flogged dead horse to water.. : )

I'm not sure that even pure water can bring this animal back to
life. . . .

<snipped>

 >>Indicating, of course, that professional special effects efforts
 >>are much better at presentation than the real thing... <g>

 >Grin noted, but my comments actually indicate that pro sfx
 >artists are much better at presentation than the semi-pro
 >guys who made the AA puppet. <VBG>

Assuming that you have some concept of what you expect to see in
such a sequence.

<snip>

 >Actually, my point was to answer to Ed Gehrman's claim that the
 >AA creature was impossible to recreate. Nothing more than that.
 >Sfx artists have been doing effects like that for a very long
 >time.

 >As to the idea that we have a standard belief of what aliens
 >should look like, that's probably perfectly true. However, in
 >the case of the AA creature, it doesn't even fit with the
 >descriptions made by people who allegedly have seen 'real'
 >aliens, or of those that described the Roswell corpses. It
 >superficially fits the picture, but the details are off. Six
 >fingers? Well, maybe real aliens do have six fingers, but I
 >struggled to find a single witness account of this at the time
 >the AA movie was released. Big fat stomach? Looks like they had
 >a problem with the sculpt, or the person they made the body cast
 >from was 5+ months pregnant.

 >Show me an example anywhere in the literature pre-dating the
 >autopsy flick of an alien that fits the AA creature's
 >appearance. The only ones that come close are the Hill's
 >abductors. This is not an aggressive challenge, it's merely my
 >honest inability to find a correlation. And that was the first
 >thing that struck me about the AA creature.

Your initial point is a good one. The AA "film" sequence can be
faked today in a more convincing manner than the original
(provenance unproven) sequence. The fact that so many facets
were inaccurate could mean they didn't do their homework, or
could mean that our view of what we should expect to find is far
too narrow in scope. Can you prove conclusively that the former
is true? If so, then we can put this matter to rest.


 >Nope, I'm not talking about the Roswell sculpt. He made an
 >entirely new one for 20/20 that was designed to be cut open.
 >Yes, Steve Johnson (the artist in question) did sell the Roswell
 >movie puppets, but it's not the one used for the ABC show, nor
 >for Scientific American. It was very much more realistic (by
 >which I mean organic looking). It was in a similar style, but
 >was more of an 'intruders' type.

Again, special effects guys create something that is more myth
than anything else, and we sit back an try to decide which one
looks more real. Since we only have anecdotal testimony to
provide descriptions, how are we to define our baseline for
comparison?

 >>The problem with all of these re-creations is they were
 >>attempting to copy something that had already been seen. Each of
 >>these would fail the same analysis that the original "film" had
 >>undergone. The German doctor sawed through the alien as if he
 >>was cutting meat with a serrated edge, and the camera angles in
 >>the Brazilian show (which was by far the best) indicated that
 >>it had been shot on a set, and not in a closed room (in the
 >>original, all four walls are seen as the camera works around
 >>the. . . well, whatever).

 >The Brazilian show wasn't even _trying_ to fool anyone. It
 >was made on a TV set, sure. What really should have given
 >the game away to you, Mr Kaeser, is when the host walked
 >onto the set right in the middle of the procedure!!

If they hadn't been trying to fool anyone, then what was the
point of the recreation? Of course, the broadcast wasn't in my
native language and I don't know what the set up was and it may
well have been announced as a recreation at the beginning, but
if I had been the producer I wouldn't have set it up that way.
When the TV Anchor walked out on the set the entire matter was a
dead giveaway, but I began to suspect that it was a recreation
when the camera backed away from the action through what should
have been a wall.

 >That wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that
 >there is nothing spectacular in the nature of the AA creature,
 >if it is an effect.

This is true. For a special effect the AA dummy wasn't worth all
that much. Of course, we still haven't proven (except by
implication) that it was a special effects creation.

 >><snip>

 >>Obviously, this is true and has been admitted from the beginning
 >>by Bob Shell, Philip Mantle, and Michael Hesemann. The
 >>technology is there to recreate the "film", or even produce a
 >>better one, so that has never been the real question. The
 >>problem has always been the question "WHY?" and to what end.

 >I assume that question is rhetorical?

 >You can ask the same about any fraud. The answers are not
 >always simple. In the case of the Hitler Diaries, for example, it
 >was partly money, partly hubris and egotism on the part of the
 >faker; abetted by the gullibility, greed and stupidity of a
 >journalist.

 >Why does a person lie about a UFO sighting with no chance of
 >monetary gain? You tell me.

Momentary fame and the psychological boost of knowing more than
those around you are two motivations that I can think of off the
top of my head. The fact is that most people who have sightings
probably don't seek out an explanation, and would rather ignore
that which they don't understand.

Yes, we can ask this about any fraud, but it becomes an integral
part of proving the fraud in many cases. Yes, the question was
rhetorical.

 >Asking why someone would fake the AA picture seems like a silly
 >question. It was extremely financially viable. As I mentioned, a
 >talented sfx artist could make the sculpt for under $5000 US.
 >Plus, look at what the film has done for credibility of our UFO
 >research. It has set us back probably decades. I know that there
 >are personality types who do things with no other motive other

 >than to be iconoclastic, even at great expense. Let us not even
 >get into conspiracy theories about intelligence agencies trying
 >to ridicule UFO research.

In Great Britain there seem to be many who enjoy "testing" those
who study crop circles or UFOs, and your point is well taken.
The fact that Ray probably didn't make an astronomical amount
from the "film" (which I would measure in the millions), and
lost control of the images early on, didn't help to secure his
fortune from this as a hoax. But are we to base conclusions on
what "might" be, or even what "probably" was the case?

 >Mr Kaeser goes on to say:

 >>The problem has been that the minor flaws that can be quickly
 >>found in the copies have not been found in the original.
 >>However, that's not to say that some have questioned the
 >>procedures and material used in the original.

 >Examples, please? If you're talking about something as silly as
 >mould seams down the side of the thing, well no. But on film,
 >the obviousness of the material is never apparent.

Actually, I don't have a lot of time to go back and pull all of
the old posts out and repeat them. This question would be better
put to Bob Shell, but he's probably too busy to respond.

 >Actually there are a host of flaws in the original. Technical
 >flaws spotted in the puppet by sfx artists. The body cast was
 >made from a person standing upright, as is evidenced by the
 >tensed leg and buttock muscles. A real corpse is flaccid, it's
 >flesh and muscle sinking onto the surface of the table. The
 >flesh, when the incisions are made, is not elastic, as is real
 >flesh, which retracts from the incision. If the alien looks
 >enough like us to have the same bone structure, knuckles,
 >toenails, etc, why would it differ in this regard? Also, the
 >blood trails demonstrate fraud, as was noted by another poster.
 >That's just three things off the top of my head.

You are comparing this "corpse" to a carbon based life form.
Because the "creature" looks vaguely human are we to assume that
it has human characteristics after it dies?

 >>But no "smoking gun" to prove that the sequence is a hoax has
 >>been found after several years of searching.
 >
 >Santilli hasn't supplied the evidence to discover the smoking
 >gun. As soon as we get a strip of film with image from the
 >autopsy, then we'll be in a position to talk authoritatively on
 >this point.

Agreed. But I doubt that Ray will cooperate any time soon. First
one has to prove that a film actually exists, which is still in
question.

 >The point is that certain people are ignoring the 'old'
 >evidence. Sweeping it under the carpet. Glossing over the
 >inconsistencies of logic and anachronisms in the film and it's
 >presentation. One feels the need to repeat old evidence when
 >people are not paying attention to it.

 >This film caused _so_ much excitement when it appeared. And it
 >really did look good for a while. Lots of us thought that this
 >could be it, this could be the final proof. It's not surprising
 >that in the light of the shonky way it was presented, and
 >lacking definitive proof of a hoax, or it's real source, that a
 >lot of people were extremely deflated, and not a few went into
 >denial.

Actually, I have yet to find any anachronisms that hold up, with
regard to the actual sequence(s). Examples would be of interest.
Since this "film" has been examined so intensively there have
been numerous allegations of problems, and each has been
responded to in a logical fashion. Teresa Carlson's work is
about the best I've seen to call it into question, but that
deals with technical flaws.

 >>There are many reasons to believe that the AA "film" is a fraud
 >>and a hoax, and it is unfortunate that absolute proof hasn't
 >>been found to put this matter to rest. I would agree with Neil's

 >>post in that whatever we think of Ray and his provenance for the
 >>"film", we are still left with the images that can't easily be
 >>explained.

 >Yes we can; it's a hoax. That's pretty simple. <VBG>

Okay. We'll add your name to the long list of those who have
written it off as a hoax.

 >For what it's worth, I don't personally think Santilli was in on
 >the hoax, if such it was, until later. I don't think his company
 >made the film.

 >It is interesting to note that in one of Tim Good's books, it
 >may have been Above Top Secret or one of the final UFO Reports,
 >that a US Airforce officer stationed in Puerto Rico (?) is
 >quoted talking about being shown an autopsy film during a secret
 >briefing. It was grainy and old, and rather fits the description
 >of the AA footage. It was said to be a training film, and could
 >have been a recreation made by one of the more well-equipped
 >intelligence agencies (don't the NSA have their own film
 >studios?) Could this point toward the film's origin?

 >It _could_ be a real film. But it's quite unlikely, given what
 >we know. I'm not dismissing it totally out of hand, or bashing
 >it wildly; I'm trying to be objective as possible.

Our views on this are not _too_ different.

I would note that most of the special effects people I spoke
with all believed it to be a poor production that they would
have done better, and about 50% of the medical people I spoke
with believed that it was a real procedure being filmed, and not
a stage set. Each examined the sequence from their own field of
expertise and saw what they wanted (or expected) to see. Many
of those who were later re-questioned (and backed into a corner)
on the issue decided to alter their position so they didn't
appear to be defending the "film" as real. This includes both
Doctors and SFX experts who had initially indicated that the
sequence was pretty good. In fact, I think there has been an
evolution of beliefs in relation to the AA "film", which has
evolved because of the discussion and not because of new
information.

There have been several reports of military personnel describing
similar films that they had been shown, but all of this is
annecdotal and unprovable.

There are those who would state that the AA "film" has had a
positive effect on ufology because it has increased awareness,
brought more people out to Symposiums and caused more video
programs to be produced. But I would add that it has had the
impact of polarizing the UFO community, and (as we see here)
remains a hot topic of emotional discussion.

This thread was the result of Philip Mantle's request for
information for a new book on the "film", and I don't think that
it will treat the "film" favorably. I questioned Philip as to
whether he had enough new information to really justify a book,
and he said that he and Tim had uncovered new information that
needed to be brought to light. This is supposed to be an
overall wrap-up of the Santilli "film" affair, but the key to
this matter still rests with Ray and only he can finally put
this matter to rest (or at least put us on the right track
toward a resolution).

Take care,

Steve







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   Jan > Jan 31

                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:21:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:10:26 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:17:03 -0500 (EST)
 >From: Bob Young  <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:23:24 -0600
 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:55:12 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

Bob and listfolk:

 >>What you're proposing, Bob, is a lazy correlation which, for
 >>another thing, doesn't _begin_ to explain the complex dynamics
 >>of the abduction experience. No matter. What's even more
 >>troubling is the application of Von Daniken style reasoning.
 >>Von Daniken would have us believe that just because a painted
 >>figure on a cave wall looks as if it's wearing a spacesuit,
 >>_it_must_be_ wearing a spacesuit.

 >Please see the drawings made by witnesses in John Carpenter's
 >article, Double Abduction Case: Correlation of Hypnosis Data,
 >Journal of UFO Studies, New Series, Vol. 3, 1991, pp 103-104.

 >Fingers with suction cups are fingers with suction cups, sorry.

And a feeble wheeze of an explanation is a feeble wheeze of an
explanation.

 >There is also a strong suggestion (Martin Kottmeyer, The REALL
 >News, Vol. 3, No. ll, Nov. 1995) that the movie Communion, which
 >opened with widespread advertising and publicity three days
 >after the experience (initially noticed, according to the
 >witnesses, only because of it's "missing time") but before the
 >hypnosis session, was the stimulus for key details of their
 >abduction story. These include the use of a moving platform to
 >lower the abductees and an operating theater with rows of seats,
 >curiously mentioned in Streiber's book and in their account.

Did Kottmeyer ever bother to ascertain whether the two women had
actually _seen_ the movie Communion?  This is a rhetorical
question, because the answer can be inferred from Kottmeyer's
usual modus operandi, as in his spurious allegations concerning
the relationship of Barney Hill's report of wrap-around alien
eyes and the television series Outer Limits.  When finally asked
(not, of course, by Kottmeyer but by me) about Mr. Hill's
viewing habits, Betty Hill -- whose honesty and decency even
debunkers don't question -- said flatly, "Never heard of [Outer
Limits]. Barney worked nights. If he was not working, we were
never home because of our community activities. If we had been
home, I am sure this title would not interest us."

 >They were traveling for many miles on a straight road with
 >bright Jupiter only a couple degrees up right in front of them -
 >just where they thought a UFO was. (See my letter in the Journal
 >of UFO Studies, New Series, Vol. 6, 1995/6, p. 227.)

For the problems with this hypothesis, see John Carpenter's
response in the same issue (pp. 229-30).  Unfortunately, Bob's
theory merely underscores the principle, as the Kottmeyer
example above also shows, that the farther one is away from the
witnesses, the easier it is to make all kinds of sweeping
statements about their personalities and motivations and thus to
concoct a "solution" that -- pardon the expression, Bob -- only
clouds the skies.

As for the Jupiter explanation, Carpenter has some interesting
things to say, such as :

"I have discussed [these] data with [astronomer/ufologist/field
investigator Walter N. Webb].  He does say that there could have
been some astronomical misperceptions by the two women but that
is rather insignificant in light of their clearly conscious
observation of a huge glowing oval of 'fluffy white light' that
descended rapidly and hovered 100 feet away directly over a
field to their right with pastel- colored beams shining down
toward the ground. That does _not_ sound like Jupiter, Venus, or
Sirius, does it?  This light source and 'criss-crossing beams'
extending to the ground were straight out the right window so
that Susan on the driver's side could easily see them _without
looking up_. If they had _only_ seen the distant twinkling of
lights, I would have been more concerned with this part of their
reports."

For other observations on Young's theory, including his airy
assertion that anything he could not otherwise explain is likely
"due to wishful thinking," I urge listfolk to read what
Carpenter has to say on the personalities, behavior, and actions
of the very level-headed woman who reported this still-puzzling
experience.

Jerry Clark











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   Jan > Jan 31

                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:43:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:15:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:43:33 -0800
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Dear Mike and Victor:

 >Yes, the exact date would be very helpful, but even an inexact
 >date might be found if the location were given.

 >Do you have a physical description of the object(s) and a
 >precise location in addition to the approx. date?

 >Best

 >- Larry Hatch

Larry, haven't you been reading what I posted?  I have
described my sighting at least twice.  This time I will
be more concise.  More descriptive.

Sighting:  Sitting on a tree stump in my front yard viewing sky.
            7 objects in a - V - formation traveling from North
            to South, at approximately 45 deg. elevation.  First
            appeared to me as a White Delta Shaped object,
            presumed a B-57 Hustler Bomber.

            Formation made a sweeping 90 deg turn and approached
            me head on.  Objects observed in - V - formation...
            Objects passed directly overme and proceeded to
            approximately 80 deg. East.  At this point the lead
            object and the entire right side, pivoted to form an
            inverted - L - shape.  Formation "slid" 90 deg. left,
            without reducing speed and returned North, from where
            it had origionated.  No noise was heard...

Duration of Sighting:  Approximately 30 seconds.

Shape:  Six disks Oval, or egg shapped; One disk, Half-moon
shapped. (Lead disk in  - V - formation)

Size:  At arms length, each object was approximately 1/4" in
        diameter. Formation was approximately 1 3/4" to 2" in
        length and 1 3/4" to 2" wide at the base. In other
        words, an almost perfect Triangle shape, "had there
        been" two more ovals between the two end objects. This
        is purely an estimate.

Color:  Flourscent White...solid color...did not blink or flash.

Location:  Owensboro, Kentucky 42301 - County: Daviess.  USA

Date:  Sept.(? First week), 1967  (Can't find my report.  When I
        do, I will post the complete date.)

Time:  8:45 PM

Weather and sky conditions:  Cloudy, temp approximately 65 deg. light
                              wind, 5 - 7 mph (approx.) No thunder or
                              lighning. Cloud ceiling 2,000 ft.
Number of Observers:  1 (that I am aware of)

Name of Observer:  Michael Christol

Age:  23 years old.

Sex:  Male

Race: Caucasion

Education:  High School

Martial Status: Married

Wife's Name: Judy

Number of Children:  Two, A boy, 29 months old;  A girl, 15
           months old.

Religion: Baptist (Born again Christian)

Hobbies:  Reading about Science, Aeronautics, Rocketry,
           Astronomy, Military Technology, UFOs, The Manned Space
           Program, World and Ancient History, and Geography.

I had been reading about UFOs since I was 12 years old.  I had
interview three individuals in our county in August, regarding
their sightings. This is one reason I was sitting on the stump
in my front yard that night, viewing the night sky.

That was when my actual in the field investigations began.

I hope this helps some.  I would suggest those interested save
this report as a file and they can refer to it in the future, in
stead of asking me or another person to repeat it again. <G>

REgards, Mike

  Download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
  ICQ#:7508455
  BBS: (270) 683-3026
  Fax: (270) 686-7394
  Home: (270) 683-6811
         ---








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                            Re: The Eyes Have It

From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:08:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:24:13 -0500
Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It


 > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 15:40:03 -0500 (EST)
 > From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 > Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 > To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:56:34 +0000
 >>From: Dave Bowden <grafikfx@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:44:24 -0500 (EST)
 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: The Eyes Have It
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca


Hi Jim and all,

 >If you are still ticked off at me
 >aftter reading this, allow me to present you with the latest in
 >mind bendingly soothing elixir of the gods. I call it, Gripple
 >Codone. Codein and Gripple in a highly sweetened mixture
 >containing a little smack and some thorazine as well as the
 >codein. But just enough to paralyze you until the shaking stops.

Good God man! sounds like the sort of thing they could power the
space shuttle with.

Make mine a double.

Perhaps I should have a little tipple now and again, it might
help me to understand some of the mails I get.

All the best,

Dave.









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                UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00505 03.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:43:02 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:29:59 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00505 03.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00505 03.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Alice Mitchel AUFORN VIC
1800 Callin Code: 00505 03.01.2000

Date Reported: 03.01.2000
Date sighted - 2.1.2000
Day: Sunday
Time Reported: 10.20 pm
Location: Frankston, Victoria
Reportee: Margaret
Report Rep: Alice Mitchel AUFORN Vic


Object

Shape: V shape
Size: Large
Objects: 1
Colour:  Black with 3 red lights
Sound: None
Speed: ?
Duration:  2 to 3 minutes
Direction:  Suddenly disappeared
Witnesses: 1

Report:

On the night of Sunday 2nd Jan 2000, Margaret who is a nurse was
on her way  home from work When at approx 10.20pm she observed a
black V shaped object with 3 red lights hovering over Houses in
Sky Road, Frankston. She pulled over to the side of the road and
turned off the Ignition (Prior to turning off the ignition she
had noticed some interference on the car radio), She said the
object was very big and no sound  came from it, what so ever.

It was a very clear night.

And although it wasn't hot at  all that night, Margaret had a
feeling of the car and then herself becoming Very hot. She
watched the object for a few  minutes when it suddenly
disappeared.

There were no Other witnesses.

Best wishes Alice Mitchell AUFORN Victoria.

Thankyou Alice for this report.


Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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(A Non-Profit Organization)

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                UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00465.07.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:43:21 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:32:42 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File  00465.07.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File  00465.07.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Alice Mitchel AUFORN Vic
1800 Callin Code: 00465.07.01.2000

Date: 07 :01:2000
Day: Friday
Time Reported: 10.28m
Location: Keilor Park Victoria
Reportee: Carl McS
Report given to nearest rep:  Alice Mitchel AUFORN Vic

Object

Shape:
Size: Star like
Objects: 7 pulsating 3 laser
Colour: white
Sound: None
Speed: Fast
Duration: Aprox 1 hour
Direction:  S/E to North
Witnesses: 2

Report:

On the night of Friday 7.1.2000, the witness sighted 7 pulsating
white lights travelling from S/E to N across the sky. He also
observed what he describes as 3 laser type streams of light in
the sky also.

He said the objects moved across the sky very fast, faster than
he has seen a high altitude plane travelling at, he could not
judge the size of the objects, but they looked to be the same
size and shape of a star. He, and another witness, his brother,
observed these lights for approximately 1 hour when all of a
sudden they shot up into the stars and were lost to view.

Best wishes
Alice Mitchell

Thankyou Alice for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw
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ADMINISTRATION:

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(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
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Regards Diane Harrison

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Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
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                UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00506 03.01.2000

From: Diane Harrison <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:43:44 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:35:22 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00506 03.01.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00506 03.01.2000

FOLLOWUP Alice Mitchel AUFORN VIC
1800 Callin Code: 00506 03.01.2000

Date Reported: 03.01.2000
Date sighted - 2.1.2000
Day: Sunday
Time Reported: 10.50 pm
Location: Endeavor Hills, Victoria
Reportee: Peter Ho
Report Rep: Alice Mitchel AUFORN Vic


Object

Shape: V shape
Size: Large
Objects: 1
Colour:  Black with Dim orange lights
Sound: None
Speed: ?
Duration:  3 to 4 minutes
Direction:  Suddenly disappeared
Witnesses: 1

Report:

Sunday night the 2nd  Jan at approx 9.30pm, after falling asleep
in his chair,, Peter woke up and went Outside  to feed his dogs.
As it was such a nice night he decided to relax for a while and
do a bit of stargazing, which he very often does late at night.

After approx half an hour, he looked up and noticed a large,
solid black V shaped object with dim orange lights which were
situated along the front end of the object.

Peter said it was a very clear night and he first noticed the
object because it was blocking out the Big Dipper constelation
he had been looking at previously. There Was no sound emitted
from the object at all and Peter estimates that it must have
been at least 5 times bigger than a Jumbo Jet.

He sighted the object for only 3-4 seconds when  Peter says it
Just disappeared from view.

There were no other witnesses.


Best wishes Alice Mitchell AUFORN Victoria.

Thankyou Alice for this report.


Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
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ADMINISTRATION:

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(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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                 UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00510 31.1.2000

From: Diane Harrisona <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:44:11 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:39:59 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00510 31.1.2000


UFO Sighting Report OZ File 00510 31.1.2000

1800 Callin Code: 00510 31.01.2000
FOLLOWUP Jan Stone AUFORN QLD

Date Reported
Date: 31.01.2000
Day: Monday
Time Reported: 7.39am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland
Reportee: Pat
Report given to nearest rep: Jan Stone
Tel:

Report:

Shape: Rectangle
Size: 16 centmtrs
Objects: 1
Colour:  Bright white light, with reddish cone tail
Sound: None
Duration: 3.45am to 5.10am
Direction: East  Hovering over Mudjimba Island (slightly to the
North)
Witnesses: Pat asked around but no one else has come forward
yet, she may ask the local paper to publish her story in the
hope that someone else saw it.

Pat a very well spoken, educated, older lady was staying at the
Discovery Beach Resort on the Sunshine Coast (used to be the old
Surf Air) on Friday night, 28th January 2000.   Her room
overlooked the ocean and the hotel was right on the beach.  At
about 3.45am on Saturday Morning (29th) Pat woke up from a
restless night, (Pat does have trouble

sleeping) and saw a very bright light shining through the window
of her room, Pat got out of bed and looked out the window and
saw this light which Pat describes as 500 times that of a
fluorescent light.

She was looking out to the East over the ocean, Pat says there
is a very small uninhabited island about half a mile out to sea
from the resort called MUDJIMBA ISLAND, and the light was just
above this Island about 2,000-3,000 feet up and slightly to the
North of the Island.

The light stayed in the same position and after about a hour Pat
noticed a shape, rectangle, with a reddish cone tail end.  Then
some little flashes of light came out the cone looking tail.

Pat sat at the window watching this light until  5.10am when it
started to move upwards and disappeared. Pat says she has never
seen anything like it before, and would like to know what it
was?

She has never thought about UFO's before but it has now made her
think about it and want to know more. She is familiar with the
stars and says it was not a star.

Regards
Jan

Thankyou Jan for this report

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
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Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 05:41:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:54:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:43:51 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:43:33 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Dear Mike and Victor:

 >>Yes, the exact date would be very helpful, but even an inexact
 >>date might be found if the location were given.

 >>Do you have a physical description of the object(s) and a
 >>precise location in addition to the approx. date?

 >>Best

 >>- Larry Hatch

 >Larry, haven't you been reading what I posted?  I have
 >described my sighting at least twice.  This time I will
 >be more concise.  More descriptive.

 >Sighting:  Sitting on a tree stump in my front yard viewing sky.
 >           7 objects in a - V - formation traveling from North
 >           to South, at approximately 45 deg. elevation.  First
 >           appeared to me as a White Delta Shaped object,
 >           presumed a B-57 Hustler Bomber.

<snip>


Dear Mike:

Sorry! I must have mis-keyed and deleted your earlier more
detailed posts.

I just checked, and I have no sightings in that time and place.
I have only one Kentucky sighting for 1967, but its back at the
beginning of the year.

Kentucky has one of the lowest sightings counts of all states in
my data for some reason.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

- - - - - - - - - -








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                               Steve Johnson?

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:08:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:17:29 -0500
Subject: Steve Johnson?


Dear colleagues,

Steve Johnson of XFX has just moved to Burbank, California. If
anyone can supply me with his new postal address, fax number, or
e-mail address, I'd be most grateful.

Many thanks,

Philip Mantle.
pmquest@dial.pipex.com









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                     Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain

From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:12:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:39:15 -0500
Subject: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain


Hello, UFO-thinkers...

I find myself agreeing with Mr. Velez' comments vis a vis Mr.
Mortellaro's 'humor'. Now, Mr. Velez can certainly be
obstreporous, and he often seems to have a chip on his shoulder
the size of North Dakoka (although, in truth, if I'd been
subject to one-tenth the ridicule and abuse he apparently has,
I'd probably be a bit permanently ticked off, too.)

But, Mr. Velez is up on his feet, dukes up, and he's fighting -
and fighting mad. He wants to know what the _heck_ is going on.
I won't take any position on whether, or what is/has happened to
him (I have no way of knowing), but I do admire his fighting
spirit, and his desire to know.

But everytime I read anything from poor Mr. M, whether it's a
"serious" letter or one of his "gripplings," I wince. The man is
so clearly haunted, troubled, and in pain, his writings are
literally painful to read. I agree that his attempts at humor
are pathetic, pooorly timed, and unfunny -- painfully unfunny.
And that is the key -- pain. I think Mr. Mortellaro needs some
kind of help. I'm quite seriious. I worry about him. Whatever
is/has happened to him seems to have broken his spirit. I'd sure
hate for anything to befall him while everyone else is nattering
away about whether or not the AA is a hoax.

Purrrrs to all...
wac








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                            What's On Your Mind?

From: Kelly McGillis <kellymcg@netcom.ca>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:45:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:43:45 -0500
Subject: What's On Your Mind?


Source: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/mind.htm

This appeared in issue 58. It is difficult to deny that
something is happening to some of the many people claiming to
have been abducted by the Greys; this has lead the more
adventurous researchers to seek other possibilities as to what
might be behind the phenomenon. Perhaps the most startling,
frightening, and in many ways convincing of these is the mind
control hypothesis. This is by no means new, Jacques Vallee and
others have been hinting in this direction since the late
1960's; but in the last few years it has become increasingly
evident that the suspicions of researchers such as Vallee,
Walter Bowart and Martin Cannon may be disturbingly close to the
truth.

WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND?

By Mark Pilkington

Tense nervous headache? Always run down and irritable? Not
feeling yourself? Well maybe that's because you're not yourself,
rather, you are being controlled from somewhere else by someone
else.

Last year "Tomorrow's World" (a British Broadcasting Corporation
science programme) featured a man whose Parkinson's Disease
symptoms could be controlled by pressing a switch on a handset
which in turn operated a tiny device implanted into his brain.
No more shaking, no more tears. This is the friendly, caring
side of the neural implant, but many people believe that dark
forces are at work, trying to take over the minds of their
targeted subjects via tiny objects inserted into various parts
of the body. These sinister controllers take many forms; some
say that it's the CIA or other shadowy intelligence outfits;
others that it's the secret world government, plotting for world
domination; others still that it's malicious aliens, the Greys,
who use implants as tracking devices so that they can abduct
their hapless victims anytime, anyplace and operate on them
aboard their spacecraft. Sometimes the Greys are working for the
government, sometimes the government is working for the Greys,
and sometimes the government is working as the Greys, using
remote hypnotic devices to trigger off the abduction fantasy as
a disguise for what's really going on.

Ex-soldier Timothy Mcveigh, prime suspect in last year's
Oklahoma City bombing, has recently announced that he has
himself been sporting such an implant after being witness to
many UFO encounters on his farm. One might expect this to be an
elaborate attempt to plea insanity, but knowing the current
climate in much of America, I wouldn't be so sure. But it's not
just "over there".

In a letter sent to John Major in 1992, Lennart Lindqvist,
international secretary for a group dedicated to uncovering
illicit mind control operations, wrote;

"...we have become aware of several victims in Great Britain;
reports received from exploited individuals refer to mental
hospitals, police authorities and prisons as among the state
institutions involved in the implantation of ... electrodes of
radio-transmitting crystals in people."

He goes on to quote a letter from a Mr N'Tumba, a British
victim; " Concerning the brain transmitter in my head, it has
benn performing without my knowledge or consent...What's very
outrageous is that I am sharing all my visions, thoughts,
images, hearing etc. with people around meas the security
services are engaging in a large scale propaganda drive to smear
my character, background, behaviour, emotions and motives...I
have no privacy at all...." (1).

Lindqvist states that X rays of Mr. N'Tumba's brain , analysed
by a Dr. Lindstrom, noted for his pioneering use of ultrasonics
in neurosurgery, clearly show an object implanted into his left
nostril as well as others blocking the oxygen flow to his brain.

You might be excused for dismissing Mr N'Tumba as a paranoid
schizophrenic were it not for the fact that ordinary, respected
people, all across America in all walks of life, are reporting
similar things. These are the Abductees, and according to some
researchers there are up to two million of them. One of these
researchers, Dr. David Jacobs, is an associate professor of
history at Temple University in Philedelphia; he writes; "
Towards the end of the examination, the aliens either implant a
small, round seemingly metallic object in the abductee's ear,
nose, or sinus cavity, or remove such an object. The object
is...small, it usually is smooth, or has small spikes sticking
out of it, or has holes in it." (2) Jacobs notes that implants
are left near the brain; subjects often wake up with ear or nose
bleeds after an abduction and sometimes small objects will drop
out when a person blows their nose.

Another researcher is Pulitzer prize winner and professor of
psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, John Mack M.D. He says; "
I have myself studied a 1/2 to 3/4 inch thin, wiry object that
was given to me by one of my clients... Elemental analyses and
electronic microscopic photography revealed an interestingly
twisted fibre consisting of carbon, silicon, oxygen, no nitrogen
and traces of other elements. A nuclear biologist colleague said
the specimen was not a naturally occurring biological object,
but could be a manufactured fibre of some sort." (3)

A suspected implant that had embarrassed its subject since his
teenage years, was removed from a man's penis in 1994 and
examined by Massachusets Institute of Technology physicist David
Pritchard. His conclusion was that the object appeared to be a
collection of calcified cotton fibres, presumably gained from
wearing starchy, tight underpants, that had somehow become
embedded in the head of the penis. Mack, however, is not
concerned: "...it would not be difficult for the aliens, in
light of all the other seemingly miraculous things of which they
appear capable, to adapt a small object to the human body by
forming it along the lines of the body's own chemistry. If that
were the case, the analysis would yield nothing unusual."(4) Dr.
Mack's alien allegations made him the subject of a serious
inquiry by the school's committee, but after 30 meetings it was
decided not to sack him, but only to warn him not to let his
enthusiasm for a subject overshadow academic principles and
standards.

More recently, a November 1995 newspaper article mentions a
California surgeon who operated, on video, on two abductees, and
removed implants from both of them. One came from the big toe of
a woman, the other from the back of a man's hand; both objects
were noticed during X rays for other minor injuries. The objects
were seed sized, encased in a thick dark membrane and couldn't
be cut with a scalpel; one was T shaped. Once cut open they were
found to contain tiny black pieces of a highly magnetic metal.
There was no scarring or inflammation of the skin around the
objects in either patient.(5)

Another mystery object was removed from an abductee in Ontario
Canada in January of 1995; it came from "in back of her left
ear"(6), was 1mm long and dark in colour. Analysed under an
electron microscope it was found to contain primarily aluminium,
titanium and silicon; which a technician with Pansonic Canada,
stated "would be a transducer and can be used to transmit
signals"(7).

The dark history of US, UK and USSR experiments into mind
control and brain washing since the early '60's is well known
and there are many books available on the subject.(8) In America
projects such as Artichoke, Bluebird, Pandora, Mkdelta, Mksearch
and Mkultra explored the erasure of memory, hypnotic resistance
to torture, truth serums, post-hypnotic suggestion, rapid
induction of hypnosis, electronic stimulation of the brain,
non-ionizing radiation, microwave induction of intracerebral
"voices," and a host of even more disturbing technologies.
Mkultra is perhaps the best known of these; giving LSD to
unwitting subjects including soldiers, students and mental
patients, the CIA hoped to utilise its properties as a truth
serum and in mind control . Acid guru Timothy Leary is quoted as
saying; " The entire LSD movement itself was sponsored
originally by the CIA, to whom I give great credit. I would not
be here today if it had not been for...the CIA
psychologists".(9) All such research was supposed to have
stopped in the early '70's, but various sources close to the
CIA, including Victor Marchetti who spent 14 years in its
service, have stated that the work was just pushed even further
underground and frequently surfaces in contemporary torture
techniques abroad.

Experimentation with Electronic Stimulation of the Brain (ESB)
via implants was a central part of this series of programs. Yale
psychologist Jose Delgado developed a device in the early 1960's
known as a "stimoceiver". He demonstrated this dramatically by
implanting it into a bull's brain and goading it electronically
whilst standing in the ring. The bull charged him but stopped
suddenly moments from impact; Delgado had caused it do so via a
remote control! Bryan Robinson, of the Yerkes primate
laboratory, has conducted remote ESB research on simians,
causing mothers to ignore their offspring, despite the babies'
cries and turning submission into dominance, and vice-versa. Dr
Robert Heath, a neurosurgeon at Tulane University, claimed a
world record after implanting 125 electrodes into a subject's
body and brain, and subsequently spent hours stimulating the
man's pleasure centres. Both scientists concluded that ESB could
control memory, impulses, feelings, invoke hallucinations, fear
and pleasure. Heath, and many of his colleagues, considered ESB
a potential "cure" for homosexuality and other "socially
troublesome persons"; this could, of course, be you.. Joseph A.
Meyer, of the National Security Agency, America's most secretive
defence group, has proposed implanting electronic tags into all
those arrested, of any crime, in order to monitor their
behaviour at all times. He uses New York's Harlem district as
his model in his proposal.

The implant, then, is no fantasy, but how far have its potential
implications been implemented? It has often been reported that
the CIA has mastered a technology call RHIC-EDOM. RHIC means
"Radio Hypnotic Intracerebral Control." EDOM stands for
"Electronic Dissolution of Memory." Allegedly these techniques
can remotely induce hypnotic trance, deliver suggestions to the
subject, induce feelings and emotions and erase all memory for
both the instruction period and the act which the subject is
asked to perform. They might operate using advanced implant
technologies but are such implants even necessary? Many shops
use messages transmitted at high frequencies above the hearing
threshold to combat shoplifting, some report a success rate of
up to 80%. A Dr. Sharp, a Project Pandora researcher for the US
army, ran experiments whereby the human brain picked up words
that were transmitted via microwaves, thus bypassing the ear. Dr
James Lin of Wayne State University discusses the possibilities
of using such techniques to aid the deaf, but comments; "the
capability of communicating directly with humans by pulsed
microwaves is obviously not limited to the field of therapeutic
medicine."(10)

In the early 1970's science fiction writer Philip K. Dick and
spoon-bender Uri Geller (along with his then mentor Andrija
Puharich) both reported contact with what appeared to be a
non-human machine intelligence orbiting the earth. Dick called
it VALIS, Geller called his SPECTRA. Were they both singled out
for microwave communication experiments, or both just equally
insane? Further computerised contact was described by Dorothy
Burdick in her 1982 book Such Things are Known; she relates;

"Laser-projected Voices tell me, "You are doing what you want to
do," but I am never free of their broadcast stimuli which I can
feel, and microwave or ultrasonic frequencies of which I may be
totally unaware. I cannot be sure that I am not really in pain
due to natural causes. I only feel unaccountable changes in mood
such as depression, euphoria or relief.(11)

The alien abductees report a number of things that could be
induced via such devices; buzzing and voices, missing time,
inexplicable emotions in inappropriate circumstances (e.g. love
for an alien that is raping them), loss of self control,
telepathic communication and memories of films projected onto
screens. Many report the disturbance of electrical objects in
their presence, perhaps a side effect of such implant
technologies. Could the whole abduction scenario be a carefully
manipulated hypnotic cover for experimentation by government or
military intelligence services? Certainly many abductees have
reported seeing human military personnel during their
experiences (one was actually identified as a human doctor), and
others have seen helicopters suddenly become UFOs and
vice-versa. Dr. Micheal Persinger, well known for his views that
the abduction experience is triggered by exposure of the brain's
temporal lobes to electromagnetic fields, was once employed by
the Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency to remotely induce
vomiting in enemy soldiers, which he did successfully. John Mack
has also been linked to Mkultra related projects; there is,
undeniably, a close relationship between the military and
intelligence agencies and UFO phenomenon, but it seems as far
fetched as the idea of the Greys themselves to blame them for
everything. Then again, if the aliens are all powerful, as they
certainly seem to be, why would they need to use implants at
all?

So, confronted with the potential reality of such devices we can
only wonder how far their use has actually been taken, and,
ultimately, who is in control of them. Or, to put it another
way, who might be in control of us?

Postscript:

Just prior to uploading this page I found the following posted
on Dan Geib's excellent UFO Folklore site. The source is
researcher Richard Boylan.

"Among documents recently obtained from the White House under
the Freedom of Information Act is an interesting piece of
correspondence between former Naval Intelligence Commander and
Human Potential Foundation director Scott Jones, Ph.D. and White
House Presidential Science Advisor John Gibbons, Ph.D. In a
February 17, 1994 letter, following up on a February 4 White
House meeting between Lawrence Rockefeller, Dr. Jones, and Dr.
Gibbons, Scott Jones wrote:

"Whatever Roswell [UFO crash revelation] turns out to be, it is
only the opening round. I urge you to take another look at the
UFO Matrix of Belief that I provided you last year. My mention
of mind-control technology at the February 4 meeting was quite
deliberate. Please be careful about this. There are reasons to
believe that some governmental group has interwoven research
about this [mind-control] technology with alleged UFO phenomena.
If that is correct, you can expect to run into early resistance
when inquiring about UFOs, not because of the UFO subject, but
because that has been used to cloak research and applications of
mind-control activity."

If this proves to be a real document, then perhaps the ideas
outlined in this piece may not be so outlandish after all. By
now it is probably to late to counter the firmly entrenched
beliefs of the ET community, and perhaps this is what "The
Controllers" always wanted. I suspect this one will run and
run...

Notes and further reading:

1 Quoted in "An Open Letter to the Swedish Prime Minister from a
Survivor of Electromagnetic Terror" by Robert Naesland. From
Secret and Suppressed; ed. Jim Keith. 1993. It now appears that
Mr N'Tumba might actually have been the enigmatic Henry
Azadehdel, a.k.a Armen Victorian, orchid smuggler, greengrocer
and general UFO nuisance. (See Fortean Times #90)

2 Secret Life; David M. Jacobs. 1992

3 Abduction; John Mack. 1994

4 ibid.

5 Alexandria Journal; Virginia USA. Nov 8 1995

6 CUFORN Bulletin Vol. 15, #1, 1995

7 ibid. Antonio Fernandez, quality control technician with Panasonic
Division of Matsushita Electric, Canada.

8 I recommend "In Search of the Manchurian Candidate" by John Marks as a
starting point. Martin Cannon's "The Controllers" (see below) should
also be considered essential.

9 High Times; Feb 1978

10 Microwave Auditory Effects and Applications; Dr. James Lin

11 Such Things Are Known, Dorothy Burdick. New York: Vantage Press,
1982.

Remote Mind Control Technology; Anna Keeler. In Secret and Suppressed;
ed. Jim Keith (1993). Available at MindNet

The Controllers; Martin Cannon (1989).
Available at MindNet:

Abduction; John Mack (1994)

Secret Life; David Jacobs (1992)

In Search of the Manchurian Candidate; John Marks (1975)

Revelations, Jacques Vallee (1991)

Journey Into Madness; Gordon Thomas (1989)

Philip K.Dick, the Unicorn and Operation Mind Control

With his box of implants and a mean moustache, Derrel Sims is -
Alien Hunter!

For many of the above quoted articles, and more than you could
shake an implant at, visit The MindNet Journal, edited by Mike
Coyle.

The mind control forum is a site dedicated to exposing "the
electromagnetic terror".

90's archive / Magonia archive









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                   Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:20:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:41:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain


 >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:12:44 -0500
 >From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
 >Subject: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain
 >To: UFO UpDates list <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >But everytime I read anything from poor Mr. M, whether it's a
 >"serious" letter or one of his "gripplings," I wince. The man is
 >so clearly haunted, troubled, and in pain, his writings are
 >literally painful to read.


Hell,

Yo Errol, did you let that one slip?

For the record: in the dark hallways of mystery where any single
person is looking for deserved truths constantly being refused,
honor should be granted to any character lucid enough to
arrogate to oneself and to freely distribute PhDs.

Trying to confine Dr. Mortellaro's prose to expressions of self-
pity or evidence of personal failure does cast some doubt on the
sincerity of your action.

Pity is what you express publicly towards somebody to deprive
him/her of any sort of credibility.

You have just done that. This is pitiful (sic).

If you care about Jim, don't make it a public issue. Send him
some email! You like John, be my guest.

My assessment of Jim Mortellaro?

[;-)]









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                Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes

From: Greg Sandow <gsandow@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:45:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:45:40 -0500
Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes


 >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 17:21:24 -0600
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:17:03 -0500 (EST)
 >>From: Bob Young  <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: 60% of Abductees Are Gay - Randle & Estes
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>There is also a strong suggestion (Martin Kottmeyer, The REALL
 >>News, Vol. 3, No. ll, Nov. 1995) that the movie Communion, which
 >>opened with widespread advertising and publicity three days
 >>after the experience (initially noticed, according to the
 >>witnesses, only because of it's "missing time") but before the
 >>hypnosis session, was the stimulus for key details of their
 >>abduction story. These include the use of a moving platform to
 >>lower the abductees and an operating theater with rows of seats,
 >>curiously mentioned in Streiber's book and in their account.

Let's note that these pop-culture explanations of abductions are
unfalsifiable. If I say that the abductees in this case claim
not to have seen or read "Communion," Kottmeyer could reply that
they're lying, or that they'd forgotten, or that the imagery
reached them in various ways even if they didn't see the movie
or read the book. And I could never prove he's wrong.

But if the hypothesis isn't falsifiable, then, by common
scientific standards, it's not provable, either. Kottmeyer, and
now Bob Young, need to think things through more carefully.
Young, for instance, needs to grant the possibility that
three-fingered aliens with suction cups could appear in science
fiction, and also in reality. He then needs to figure out a test
of his hypothesis -- a way that we could demonstrate either than
the abduction image comes from science fiction, or that it
doesn't. If, instead, he simply insists that if the image was in
science fiction, any abduction report with the same image was
influenced by the science fiction, nobody can ever prove him
wrong -- which, as I've said, also means that nobody can ever
prove him right.

Greg Sandow









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                   Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:41:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:48:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain


 >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:12:44 -0500
 >From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
 >Subject: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain
 >To: UFO UpDates list <updates@sympatico.ca>

Hello Wendy, John, Jim and all

 >I find myself agreeing with Mr. Velez' comments vis a vis Mr.
 >Mortellaro's 'humor'. Now, Mr. Velez can certainly be
 >obstreporous, and he often seems to have a chip on his shoulder
 >the size of North Dakoka (although, in truth, if I'd been
 >subject to one-tenth the ridicule and abuse he apparently has,
 >I'd probably be a bit permanently ticked off, too.)

 >But, Mr. Velez is up on his feet, dukes up, and he's fighting -
 >and fighting mad. He wants to know what the _heck_ is going on.
 >I won't take any position on whether, or what is/has happened to
 >him (I have no way of knowing), but I do admire his fighting
 >spirit, and his desire to know.

 >But everytime I read anything from poor Mr. M, whether it's a
 >"serious" letter or one of his "gripplings," I wince. The man is
 >so clearly haunted, troubled, and in pain, his writings are
 >literally painful to read. I agree that his attempts at humor
 >are pathetic, pooorly timed, and unfunny -- painfully unfunny.
 >And that is the key -- pain. I think Mr. Mortellaro needs some
 >kind of help. I'm quite seriious. I worry about him. Whatever
 >is/has happened to him seems to have broken his spirit. I'd sure
 >hate for anything to befall him while everyone else is nattering
 >away about whether or not the AA is a hoax.

 >Purrrrs to all...
 >wac

I am not particularly standing in Jim's defence (he can do that
for himself) but I would like to say a quick word here.

Wendy,

There are certain people on this list (few and unnamed they are)
that whenever I see their name in the header I hit the delete
key, I don't even bother to read what they say. Now this might
be a bit harsh, and even very biased, after all I'm not
listening to both sides of the argument that way, but that is
me. If I don't like the person I don't even bother to read what
they have written. Yes I might well be missing out on some
pearls of wisdom, but I strongly object to their attitude. I
can't say its their viewpoint because I do respect that we are
all entitled to our own views, I have mine and you have yours.
But one thing I must say, If Jim riles you so, do the same, it
works for me, it could work for you.

John,

I can't say the same to you because you have posted the "hit the
delete key" line to others as well. What I would like to say to
you is: It isn't your fault. No one could ever be blamed for
being a victim (IMHO) so please, it might not be your way of
handling being a victim, but it is for others. You know the
grief, let other victims express it in ways that they can to let
it out.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                   Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain

From: John <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:02:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:54:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain


 >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:12:44 -0500
 >From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
 >Subject: Velez, Mortellaro, Humor, And Pain
 >To: UFO UpDates list <updates@sympatico.ca>

Wendy wrote:

 >Now, Mr. Velez can certainly be obstreporous, and he often
 >seems to have a chip on his shoulder the size of North Dakoka

We all reflect some of the 'pace, style, and attitudes' of the
places we grew up in, and the people we grew up with. I am a
born and raised New Yorker Wendy. It's not a "North Dakota"
sized chip I have on my shoulder, in fact it's not a 'chip' at
all.

That, is probably what you hear in my tone and way of expressing
myself. I'm really not an angry person.

 >(although, in truth, if I'd been subject to one-tenth the
 >ridicule and abuse he apparently has, I'd probably be a bit
 >permanently ticked off, too.)

Oh, you'd be more than a little 'pissed!' I'm 'human' Wendy and
subject to all the same weaknesses and shortcomings we all are.
Although I do not 'hold onto' any resentment or 'anger' towards
others as your remark implies, I have been through some very
hurtful (and at times very public) humiliations at the hands of
the very people I'm trying to report to. I have a lot of love in
my life Wendy, (family, kids, grandkids, friends, and tons of
animals) so that stuff like public ridicule or humiliation
doesn't ever cut so deep as to reach my 'core' or have it stop
me from doing what my conscience dictates I must do. You sound
like a thoughtful, caring person. I have no doubt that the
challenge of adversity would bring out the best in you rather
than as you say, make you "permanently ticked off."

 >But everytime I read anything from poor Mr. M, whether it's a
 >"serious" letter or one of his "gripplings," I wince.

Me too Wendy. I like your choice of the word, 'wince.' It _is_ a
little "pained" for him that I feel when I read him. In spite of
my blunt 'sledge hammer' style of putting it, I didn't intend my
post to be a 'flame' or an attack on Jim. To the contrary. I
have known Jim for two years and the last thing I would _ever_
do is to 'hurt' or injure him in public or in private.

What I said needed to be said and it needed to be said by a
friend. There was nothing _-mean-spirited_ in any of my
statements to Jim. It was an honest, gut level response that I
hoped would provide him with a little 'wake up' call and maybe
even raise his awareness a little and make him a better
'listmate.' Someone (we) can all enjoy, and look forward to
hearing from.

That isn't the case. He needed to hear that. More importantly,
he needed to hear it from someone he _knows_ cares about him and
not from anyone who is simply out to stuff broken glass into his
shoes.  :) I talk tough to Jim, but I have also been a friend to
him and I have _earned_ the right to be blunt and frank with
him. Others that talk to him that way haven't. In fact some of
it is just plain meanness.

 >so clearly haunted, troubled, and in pain, his writings are
 >literally painful to read. I agree that his attempts at humor
 >are pathetic, pooorly timed, and unfunny -- painfully unfunny.
 >And that is the key -- pain. I think Mr. Mortellaro needs some
 >kind of help. I'm quite seriious. I worry about him. Whatever
 >is/has happened to him seems to have broken his spirit. I'd sure
 >hate for anything to befall him while everyone else is nattering
 >away about whether or not the AA is a hoax.

Jim has people around him (and others like myself that he has
access to) that care about him and would be willing to help in
any way we can. Don't 'worry' about him. He's a big strapping
boy of some 55 years old that is fully capable of 'bouncing
back' and taking care of himself. He still has enough piss and
vinegar in him to overcome what ever obstacles or difficulties
may come his way. It's sweet that you were sensitive enough to
care about the well being of a stranger. I wish more folks could
be that way.

Regards,

John Velez, _Longtime_ veteran of the 'Star-Wars'  ;)

________________________________________________
                         AIC - Abduction Information Center -
                        www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
________________________________________________









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                Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...

From: Donald Ledgerd <ledger@ns.sympatico.ca ()>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:42:43 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:57:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...


 >Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:43:51 -0800
 >From: Michael Christol <mchristo@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 23:43:33 -0800
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Recent UFO Sightings Lack Credibility...
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Dear Mike and Victor:

 >>Yes, the exact date would be very helpful, but even an inexact
 >>date might be found if the location were given.

 >>Do you have a physical description of the object(s) and a
 >>precise location in addition to the approx. date?

 >>Best

 >>- Larry Hatch

 >Larry, haven't you been reading what I posted?  I have
 >described my sighting at least twice.  This time I will
 >be more concise.  More descriptive.

 >Sighting:  Sitting on a tree stump in my front yard viewing sky.
 >           7 objects in a - V - formation traveling from North
 >           to South, at approximately 45 deg. elevation.  First
 >           appeared to me as a White Delta Shaped object,
 >           presumed a B-57 Hustler Bomber.

 >           Formation made a sweeping 90 deg turn and approached
 >           me head on.  Objects observed in - V - formation...
 >           Objects passed directly overme and proceeded to
 >           approximately 80 deg. East.  At this point the lead
 >           object and the entire right side, pivoted to form an
 >           inverted - L - shape.  Formation "slid" 90 deg. left,
 >           without reducing speed and returned North, from where
 >           it had origionated.  No noise was heard...

Hi Mike,

Just a couple of things. You probably meant a B-58 Hustler and
they were extremely noisey, for those who have never heard one.

Don Ledger