UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug UFO UpDates Mailing List Aug 2002 Aug 1: VSN & DNS Confusion - UFO UpDates - Toronto [15] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Bob Young [39] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Bob Young [69] ET Mania Sweeping Beijing - Stig Agermose [51] Re: Battle of L.A. Searchlight Equipment - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [23] Hard To Get To Possible Life In Europa's Ocean? - Stig Agermose [99] CCCRN News: New Web Site For BLT Research Team - Paul Anderson [37] Aug 2: ET Mania Sweeping Beijing - Stig Agermose [51] NASA To Monitor 250,000 Stars For Earth-Like - Stig Agermose [94] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - John Rimmer [47] Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer - John Rimmer [185] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Jean van Gemert [19] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Don Ledger [58] McMinville/Rouen UFO Appear In UK 52 Years Later - Chris Rolfe [46] Report On Recent Bonnybridge Skywatch - Stig Agermose [43] Pat Garrett's Killer, Wayne Brazel, Related To Mac - Stig Agermose [32] 'Signs' Brings Bonanza - Stig Agermose [186] UConn Physicists Try To Build First Time Machine - Stig Agermose [317] "Come Back" New England - A Spot On Alien's - Stig Agermose [95] Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? - Stig Agermose [141] Re: P On The National UFO Reporting Center - Acres - David Acres [43] Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Larry Hatch [30] 'Crop Circles: Quest for Truth' On-line - Dave Haith [7] HUFOBC Report - 08-01-02 - Brian Vike [81] Alien Burial Site? - Chris Evers [16] New Mutilation Case In La Tigra Argentina - Scott Corrales [56] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Catherine Reason [23] Archive Top 20 'Reads' 07-02 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [63] HUFOBC: More Sightings From Terrace, B.C. - Brian Vike [13] Kennedy UFO Letter Sells on eBay - Grant Cameron [39] Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark - Jerome Clark [37] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Lowe - Adam Lowe [28] Re: Alien Burial Site? - Hall - Richard Hall [28] F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report - Steven Kaeser [16] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - David Acres [24] Re: F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [10] Re: Pat Garrett's Killer Related To Mac Brazel? - - Kevin Randle [46] Re: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? - - Eleanor White [30] Strange Lights & Figures In Ciudad Atlantida - Scott Corrales [10] More On Argentine Giant UFO - Scott Corrales [68] Dreaming For Two - Kelly Peterborough [99] Re: Kennedy UFO Letter Sells on eBay - Hall - Richard Hall [31] Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer - John Rimmer [66] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [39] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hayes - John Hayes [64] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Jerome Clark [53] Filer's Files #31 - 2002 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [510] Saskatchewan Crop Circle Perspective - Stig Agermose [55] Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark - Jerome Clark [201] When Circles Crop Up Theories Soon Follow - Stig Agermose [75] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [47] Secrecy News -- 08/02/02 - Steven Aftergood [53] The Enterprise Mission & The Anatomy Of Credulity - Mac Tonnies [114] Aug 3: CCCRN News: Double Circle/Ring Formation Limehouse - Paul Anderson [49] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [71] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Cammack - Diana Cammack [26] Special F/X Mars Face Makes Contact - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [87] Website Visits Up Thanks! - Larry Hatch [58] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Lowe - Adam Lowe [53] Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [54] Ball Lightning Enters House - David Clarke [43] Re: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? - - Paul Anderson [32] Re: McMinville/Rouen UFO Appear In UK 52 Years - Bruce Maccabee [37] F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kenny Young [115] Aug 4: Re: Ball Lightning Enters House - Meiners - Jean Meiners [30] Lights Over Cornwall Prompt UFO Calls - Stig Agermose [58] Washington UFO Seen Over Michigan? - Stig Agermose [127] F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & - Kenny Young [148] Roswell Proof Website Launched - David Rudiak [74] HBCC UFO Sightings Continue - Brian Vike [31] EW: More Mars Meteorite Evidence For Alien Life - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [63] Argentine Cows Mutilated 4000 Meters Above Sea - Scott Corrales [75] Argentine Man Sees UFO Hospitalized In Shock - Scott Corrales [61] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Klass - Phil Klass [31] Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer - John Rimmer [69] Plans For Bonnybridge UFO Park - Stig Agermose [110] 'National Geographic' Article On Crop Circles - Stig Agermose [150] Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles - UFO UpDates - Toronto [99] Times Of London Blasted For Hyped Asteroid Story - UFO UpDates - Toronto [67] Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark - Jerome Clark [107] Thomas Mantell & Peer Review - Kevin Randle [11] A Case For Review - Sean Jones [44] CCCRN News: Double Circle/Ring Formation Limehouse - Paul Anderson [53] CI: 'Tom Corbett' In 'Zippy The Pinhead' - Mac Tonnies [23] Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD - Lan Fleming [30] Holes In Clouds On History Channel - Stan Friedman [18] Aerospace Companies Racing To Copy Anti-Gravity - Stig Agermose [149] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Bob Young [37] Aug 5: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates - Robert Gates [37] Skeptibunkers And Crop Circles - Robert Gates [8] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - David Acres [68] Ukranian Air Disaster Possibly Caused By UFO? - Stig Agermose [52] 'Jane's' Editor: US Working On Nazi Anti-Gravity - Stig Agermose [221] Re: Argentine Man Sees UFO Hospitalized In Shock - - David Acres [16] FUFOR Site Down - Steven Kaeser [15] F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report File - UFO UpDates - Toronto [169] Aug 6: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Bruce Maccabee [37] Re: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [22] CCCRN News: Multi-Circle Quintuplet Formation - Paul Anderson [52] Rudiak's Roswellian Redux - Larry W. Bryant [68] NIDS Releases Study On Black Triangles - Stig Agermose [172] Debunking The Debunkers - David D. Furlotte [36] Secrecy News -- 08/05/02 - Steven Aftergood [122] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [37] 'UFO' In Ukranian Jet Crash - Stig Agermose [20] Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD - Bob Young [37] Longer Report On Ukrainian UFO (Jet Crash) Incident - Stig Agermose [51] More By 'Jane's' Editor On Nazi Anti-Gravity - Stig Agermose [89] 'Signs' Tops Box Office - Stig Agermose [36] Re: 'National Geographic' Article On Crop Circles - Jim Speiser [23] Big Asteroid To Be Close Enough For Binoculars - Stig Agermose [67] Program Gives Access To Government Blocked Web - Stig Agermose [88] NASA Officer Protects Against 'Alien Invaders' - Stig Agermose [123] St. Louis UFO Might Be Secret Military Aircraft - Stig Agermose [61] Re: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles - Anderson - Paul Anderson [27] Re: Holes In Clouds On History Channel - Velez - John Velez [53] Re: Thomas Mantell & Peer Review - Velez - John [25] Re: Debunking The Debunkers - Morton - David E. Morton [19] Fund for UFO Research Site Back On-Line - Steven Kaeser [10] Re: St. Louis UFO Might Be Secret Military - Kathleen Anderson [23] Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC [13] Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD - Richard Hall [44] Re: Roswell Proof Website Launched - Vetterick - Dave Vetterick [20] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Bob Young [65] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Bob Young [19] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Bob Young [34] Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD - Lan Fleming [11] Mallorca: Undersea UFO Base Blamed For Mysterious - Stig Agermose [56] Aug 7: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - Stanton Friedman [43] Secret 1970 NASA Report On UFOs Outside Apollo - Stig Agermose [64] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Catherine Reason [48] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Catherine Reason [119] Boeing Are Not Funding Anti-Gravity Research? - Stig Agermose [59] Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - August 7, 2002 - Stephen Bassett [44] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Catherine Reason [119] Re: Debunking The Debunkers - Klass - Phil Klass [54] Re: Trindade Island Case - Speiser - Jim Speiser [19] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Roy Hale [21] Update On Washington UFOs July 26 - Stig Agermose [63] Washington UFO July 26 Updated & Corrected - Stig Agermose [62] UFOs, Muhnochwas, Claw Faces In Uttar Pradesh India - Stig Agermose [47] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Connors - Wendy Connors [60] BC Tonight: Dark Object: The Shag Harbour UFO - Stig Agermose [9] Crop Circles No News In Davenport Illinois - Stig Agermose [74] USA TODAY: 'Signs' Makes People Look Into - Stig Agermose [127] Re: 'UFO' In Ukranian Jet Crash - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [59] CCCRN News: Multi-Circle Quintuplet Formation - Paul Anderson [56] Secrecy News -- 08/07/02 - Steven Aftergood [92] Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - - Bill Hamilton [20] Re: Program Gives Access To Government Blocked - Josh Goldstein [69] Fermi Paradox [was: Eyewitness Testimony And The - Jim Deardorff [64] Filer's Files #32 - 2002 - George A. Filer [514] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 32 - John Hayes [591] Aug 8: Article - UFO Sighting Over Houston/Telkwa, BC - Brian Vike [140] New Book On Crop Circles - Dave Haith [16] Re: Roswell Proof Website Launched - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [54] Contradictions Emerge in Reporting Argentine - Scott Corrales [38] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Speiser - Jim Speiser [29] More Witnesses Come Forward In Telkwa/Houston - Brian Vike [22] Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - - Jim Speiser [12] Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - - James Alexander [29] CI: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life In The Solar - Mac Tonnies [110] Re: USA TODAY: 'Signs' Makes People Look Into - Sean Jones [33] Anti-Gravity Goes Mainstream (Re-Issue) - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [167] Re: My Sighting: F-89s Pursue Object - Morton - Dave Morton [85] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - David Acres [97] Inconstant Speed Of Light May Debunk Einstein - Steve Wilson Snr. [80] Is It A Bird UFO Or Uncle Sam? - Frank Warren [49] Now 10 Witnesses To The Houston/Telkwa BC Sighting - Brian Vike [15] F-16 Scramble - Chat With WTOP Reporters - Kenny Young [108] Aug 9: Re: Mallorca: Undersea UFO Base Blamed For - Luis R. Gonzalez [41] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall - Richard Hall [38] Another Smithers B.C. Sighting - Brian Vike [21] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser - Steve Kaeser [52] Reviews 'Signs' & 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [58] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Bob Young [114] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates - Robert Gates [31] Hopkinsville 'Goblins' & 'Signs' - Mac Tonnies [6] Australian National UFO Conference Summery & - Diane Harrison [27] On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants - John Velez [63] Re: My Sighting: F-89s Pursue Object - Heath - Gord Heath [98] UFO Radio - Stig Agermose [16] Green Aliens In Greece? - Stig Agermose [37] UFOs Sighted In Baku Azerbaijan - Stig Agermose [17] Re: High-Tech Setup to Search for Alien Life - Stig Agermose [77] Re: CI: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life In The Solar - Bill Hamilton [176] Ten Reports In Patagonia Argentina - Scott Corrales [63] Rancher 'Paralyzed' by Unknown Object Follow-Up - Scott Corrales [102] Three Burros Mutilated in Jujuy Argentina - Scott Corrales [23] Mutilated Bovine Found in Catamarca Argentina - Scott Corrales [33] Strange 'Shroud' Of Ciudad Atlantida Argentina - Scott Corrales [86] Secrecy News -- 08/09/02 - Steven Aftergood [111] Lawton Triangles Hoax - Bruce Maccabee [8] CCCRN News: 'Teardrop' Formation - Ballinafad, - Paul Anderson [48] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Mac Tonnies [20] Crop Circles Not A Hoax - Dave Haith [20] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Elaine Tassin [17] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Richard Hall [57] Lawton Triangles Hoax - Bruce Maccabee [8] Hopkinsville 'Goblins' & 'Signs' - Mac Tonnies [6] Aug 10: Speaking Of Major Media - Brian Vike [22] Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - - David Pengilly [24] Norwegian 'UFO' Identified As SAS Airbus - Stig Agermose [24] Expanded Version Of Greek UFO Story - Stig Agermose [43] Re: Still More Details On Greek Sightings - Stig Agermose [22] Review 'Unearthly Disclosure' By Timothy Good - Mac Tonnies [23] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Rebecca Keith [47] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Speiser - Jim Speiser [107] Re: UFO Radio - Speiser - Jim Speiser [16] Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Speiser - Jim Speiser [13] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [47] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [89] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [85] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hatch - Larry Hatch [68] Re: NASA Webcasts Secret Mars Rover Test - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [63] NASA Webcasts Secret Mars Rover Test - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [63] Crop Circle Experts Doing The Rounds - UFO UpDates - Toronto [99] Re: Reviews 'Signs' & 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' - - Bruce Maccabee [34] JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] - Steven Kaeser [17] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [39] Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [43] Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [38] Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - - Jim Deardorff [54] F-16 Scramble - Second Witness Followup - Steven Kaeser [6] CI: 'Inca City' Part of Enigmatic Semicircular - Mac Tonnies [26] Draft Of Top Secret UFO Memo Now Public - Grant Cameron [110] Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Robert Gates [48] Turning Around The Scientific Community - David Jordt [177] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - White - Eleanor White [22] Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [38] Re: Still More Details On Greek Sightings - Stig Agermose [22] Aug 11: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White - Eleanor White [10] Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> - Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC [19] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Steven Kaeser [31] Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Vike - Brian Vike [107] Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [63] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Robert Gates [66] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Sanchez-Ocejo - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [51] HBCC UFO - Smithers, British Columbia, Canada - Brian Vike [63] Fertile Imaginations - Stig Agermose [242] Re: Turning Around The Scientific Community - - Stanton Friedman [112] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 363 - Edoardo Russo [119] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Young - Bob Young [35] JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] - Bob Young [22] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Young - Bob Young [17] CCCRN News: Possible Formations - Redvers, - Paul Anderson [60] Aug 12: F-16 'Chase' Near Andrews AFB And Waldorf, MD - Steven Kaeser [11] Subject: HBCC UFO Witnessed Part I - Brian Vike [159] Greek UFO Landing Trace Case - Reality Check? - Bill Chalker [29] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kline - Jeff Kline [5] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [137] Mass UFO-Confusion Near Butler County, Ohio - Kenny Young [84] Re: JUFOS - Clark - Jerome Clark [25] Aug 13: Secrecy News -- 08/12/02 - Steven Aftergood [123] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [25] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall - Richard Hall [19] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall - Richard Hall [16] Twisted Science [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow - Wendy Connors [32] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall - Richard Hall [15] Re: JUFOS - Kaeser - Steve Kaeser [20] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser - Steve Kaeser [24] UFOs 'That Claw Faces' Now In Nepal - Stig Agermose [36] Attacking UFOs Filmed By Indian District Magistrate? - Stig Agermose [50] Crop Circles From An Oregonian Perspective - Stig Agermose [120] Re: JUFOS - Young - Bob Young [19] MUFON Director On Iowan Crop Circles - Stig Agermose [77] UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe - Robert Gates [76] HBCC UFO Witnessed Part II - Brian Vike [255] Re: JUFOS - Speiser - Jim Speiser [33] 'True-Believer' Skeptics [was: F-16 Scramble - - Jim Speiser [17] Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD - Jim Speiser [46] Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Speiser - Jim Speiser [63] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [114] Re: JUFOS - Clark - Jerome Clark [23] Authorities Dismiss UFO Attacks As Mass Hysteria - Stig Agermose [78] Re: JUFOS - Sandow - Greg Sandow [43] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young - Bob Young [26] Marysville, Ohio Report - One Strange Story Leads - Kenny Young [164] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Ledger - Don Ledger [25] Authorities Dismiss UFO Attacks As Mass Hysteria - Stig Agermose [78] Aug 14: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Ledger - Don Ledger [24] Re: Attacking UFOs Filmed By Indian District - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [18] Dale Goudie's E-Address? - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [4] Re: Physical Evidence - Young - Bob Young [37] Re: Physical Evidence - Sanchez-Ocejo - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [26] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - White - Eleanor White [40] Re: JUFOS - Speiser - Jim Speiser [13] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [52] Re: JUFOS - Velez - John Velez [61] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez - John Velez [71] 'Athens News' On Prinous UFO - Stig Agermose [35] Kathmandu Post: UFO Creates Panic In Border Area - Stig Agermose [43] Kathmandu Post: Unidentified Object Scare Continues - Stig Agermose [47] Busy Sky - Dave Morton [31] HBCC UFO Witnessed Part III - Brian Vike [147] Re: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe - Velez - John Velez [56] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Bill Hamilton [73] Aug 15: Re: Physical Evidence - Morris - Eric Morris [36] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall - Richard Hall [34] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Bruce Maccabee [32] Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [39] Re: Physical Evidence - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [86] Scientific Method [was: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD - Steven Kaeser [20] Re: JUFOS - Sandow - Greg Sandow [28] Re: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [20] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White - Eleanor White [45] Re: Secrecy News -- 08/14/02 - Steven Aftergood [102] Filer's Files #33 - 2002 - George A. Filer [512] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Alexander - James Alexander [29] HUFOBC Article - Brian Vike [104] Disclosure2003 Press Release - August 14, 2002 - Stephen Bassett [66] Re: Physical Evidence - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [62] Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser - Jim Speiser [26] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Rimmer - John Rimmer [15] Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser - Jim Speiser [57] CCCRN News: Previous Formation Reports - 1998, - Paul Anderson [53] Re: JUFOS - Resta - Peter Resta [3] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 33 - John Hayes [652] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [128] Sightings Abound In Canada's Central Interior - Stig Agermose [57] Aliens Blamed For 'Ghost Blimp' Mystery 60 Years - Stig Agermose [126] Indian Scientist 'Solves' Mystery Of UFOs 'That - Stig Agermose [55] Aug 16: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez - John Velez [51] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez - John Velez [51] Re: Physical Evidence - Velez - John Velez [81] Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser - Jim Speiser [27] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez - John Velez [40] Secrecy News -- 08/15/02 - Steven Aftergood [108] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Ledger - Don Ledger [30] Nova Scotia Big Black Triangle - Don Ledger [32] Re: Physical Evidence - Ledger - Don Ledger [46] Acceptable Evidence - Frank Warren [61] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Clark - Jerome Clark [19] Flying Saucer Review 1-5 1955 For Sale - Andy Roberts [13] Re: Physical Evidence - Velez - John Velez [81] Re: Scientific Method - White - Eleanor White [32] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White - Eleanor White [24] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Eleanor White [24] Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates - Robert Gates [92] Re: Physical Evidence - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [46] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White - Eleanor White [55] Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser - Jim Speiser [23] Secrecy News -- 08/16/02 - Steven Aftergood [120] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [45] Nova Scotia Big Black Triangle - More Info - Don Ledger [147] Re: Physical Evidence - Ledger - Don Ledger [32] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 364 - Edoardo Russo [99] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Bill Hamilton [31] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Rimmer - John Rimmer [72] Re: Acceptable Evidence - Christensen - Wendy Christensen [30] Two New Items On Trindade Case - Richard Hall [19] Have We Lost Our Curiosity? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [88] 'I Make Crop Circles' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [75] Would ET Vote? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [112] Aug 17: Re: Physical Evidence - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [41] Roswell Museum Publishes UFO Magazine - Stig Agermose [62] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young - Bob Young [24] Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO Bases - Stig Agermose [78] Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO Bases - Stig Agermose [78] Re: Physical Evidence - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [34] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Speiser - Jim Speiser [57] ET Candidate Says It's No Game - Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior [110] TorStar - 'The Truth Is Out There' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [142] New 'Alien Face' Crop Formation - Analysis - Dave Haith [37] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall - Richard Hall [38] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark - Jerome Clark [21] UFO UpDates Off-line Until August 29 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [12] Aug 18: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Eleanor White [18] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Rimmer - John Rimmer [50] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - - Rebecca Keith [22] Houston, British Columbia, August 14th, 15th & 16th - Brian Vike [69] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall - Bob Young [45] Police Tapes Of Aug. 9 UFO Situation, Butler City, - Kenny Young [64] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young - Bob Young [20] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young - Bob Young [109] Re: Have We Lost Our Curiosity? - Kean - Leslie Kean [33] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [131] Wilbert Smith Discusses Communication With Aliens - Grant Cameron [256] UFO Books For Sale - Royce J. Myers III [25] Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Gates - Robert Gates [17] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 365 - Edoardo Russo [140] Roswell Death? - Loren Coleman [13] Aug 19: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - Robert Gates [156] Three Exsanguinated Goats in Cachi, Argentina - Scott Corrales [49] Ten Sheep Dead in Cachi, Argentina - Scott Corrales [67] Secrecy News -- 08/19/02 - Steven Aftergood [87] Aug 20: Secrecy News -- 08/20/02 - Steven Aftergood [86] HBCC - Vancouver, British Columbia UFO Video - Brian Vike [41] Aug 21: UFO Sightings OZ Files 21.08.02 - Diane Harrison [744] Third Witness Interviewed In July 29th Event Near - Steven Kaeser [15] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 34 - John Hayes [516] Filer's Files #34 - 2002 - George A. Filer [514] Secrecy News -- 08/21/02 - Steven Aftergood [115] Aug 22: CI: Indigenous Humanoids on Mars? - Mac Tonnies [121] Secrecy News -- 08/22/02 - Steven Aftergood [81] Bridgewater Triangle Update - Coleman - Loren Coleman [153] Aug 23: New Evidence Emerges in Argentine UFO Siege - Scott Corrales [34] Argentine University Leaves Bull Mute Unsolved - Scott Corrales [39] More On Chajan, Argentine Case - Scott Corrales [22] Re: Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO - Greg Sandow [48] Aug 25: Carolina Beach Sighting - Brian Vike [55] Aug 26: UFO Situation Near Youngstown, OH - 26-08-02 - Kenny Young [257] Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - August 26 - Stephen G. Bassett [121] John Day? - Philip Mantle [10] Addendum - D2003 Campaign Update - August 26 - Stephen G. Bassett [43] Aug 27: Secrecy News -- 08/27/02 - Steven Aftergood [146] HUFOBC Gets Weekly Radio Show - Brian Vike [12] Proof? - Anon [42] Aug 29: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 35 - John Hayes [635] Filer's Files #35 - 2002 - George A. Filer [504] 'Signs' Inspired By 1687 Crop Circle - Stig Agermose [54] Not A UFO An 'Anti-Matter' Balloon - Stig Agermose [39] UFO Crashes In Angola - Stig Agermose [26] Colorado MUFON Reports UFO Down In Alaska? - Stig Agermose [89] New Estimate - Bruce Maccabee [21] Secrecy News -- 08/29/02 - Steven Aftergood [113] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Bill Hamilton [25] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Hall - Richard Hall [42] On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants - Steve Kaeser [22] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Eleanor White [33] Re: Houston, British Columbia, August 14th, 15th & - Jim Speiser [48] Aug 30: More MJ 12 Documents - Ryan S Wood & Robert M Wood [95] Oz 'Alien' Rings Mystery Solved - Stig Agermose [39] Flying Saucer Tale Serious Business In Aurora - Stig Agermose [118] Aug 29: Big Balloons - Don Ledger [72] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark - Jerome Clark [71] Aug 30: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark - Jerome Clark [36] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Speiser - Jim Speiser [59] Re: Police Tapes Of Aug. 9 UFO Situation, Butler - Bob Young [28] Re: Wilbert Smith Discusses Communication With - David Acres [24] UFO sightings continue near Youngstown, OH - Kenny Young [44] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [22] Litter Glyphs - David Acres [3] Re: Roswell Death? - Morris - Eric Morris [21] Re: Big Balloons - Rousell - Mark Rousell [9] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall - Richard Hall [73] Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - - John Rimmer [72] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Gildas Bourdais [78] FOIA Request - 08-30-02 - Larry W. Bryant [48] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [55] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - John Velez [53] Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - - Richard Hall [42] Re: Roswell Death? - Hall - Richard Hall [34] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall - Richard Hall [73] Aug 31: Re: New Estimate - Sanchez-Ocejo - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [33] TUVPO Site Changes - Erol Erkmen [20] Re: Big Balloons - Ledger - Don Ledger [38] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young - Bob Young [27] Re: wo New Items On Trindade Case - Young - Bob Young [21] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young - Bob Young [25] Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - - Bob Young [26] UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - Kenny - Kenny Young [101] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [40] Bigfoot Enthusiasts Meet In Pennsylvania - Stig Agermose [85] Space Station Provides Light Show - Stig Agermose [48] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [33] Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall - Richard Hall [42] Re: wo New Items On Trindade Case - Hall - Richard Hall [34] Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Gildas Bourdais [73] CCCRN News: Double Triplet Formation - Ontario - Paul Anderson [48] Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - - Jim Speiser [67] Aug 30: Re: Roswell Death? - Morris - Eric Morris [21] Aug 18: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Rimmer - John Rimmer [50] Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young - Bob Young [109] The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 1 VSN & DNS Confusion From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:18:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:18:45 -0400 Subject: VSN & DNS Confusion You may have noticed a dearth of List-posts and bounces of mail to the List. It seems that the Domain Name Server Registry ignored the annual renewal of virtuallystrange.net last month. Consequently, as far as many of your ISPs are concerned VSN does not exist and they're bouncing list-bound mail from VSN back to this address. The problem started in the small hours of yesterday morning and continues. There are dozens of surf-winos going berserk with powerful scripts, endevouring to write the fix..... In the meantime, I'll post whatever makes it through to this address at the archive: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/ Apologies to you all. Net-life used to be so _much_ fun! Errol Bruce-Knapp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:43 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:44:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:36:43 +0100 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:57:29 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case <snip> >>I don't quite catch on, here. How does accumulated noise, >>presumeably from accumulated studies, end up creating a positive >>result? >It's a filtering effect. >Results in experimental psychology are evaluated using >inferential statistics. A result is considered significant if >it is sufficiently large, that it would be consistent with a >null hypothesis of "no effect" only at or below a given level of >probability (referred to as the significance level). >However, since one cannot affirm a null hypothesis under these >circumstances, a negative result (or failure to reach >significance) is not considered meaningful and so cannot >normally be published. >Inevitably then, "significance" can accumulate in publication >through noise alone, since no-one knows how many failed attempts >at replication remain unpublished. >Worse than this, though, is the problem that if positive results >occur due to experimental error or demand bias, the >corresponding experiments in which these errors or biases are >corrected, and which consequently don't produce "positive" >results, are unpublishable. This makes it especially difficult >to eliminate experimental bias or demand characteristics from >psychological research. I understand. You know, this is a lot like what has happened in 'Ufology'. Pro-UFO-ers seldom publish negative case studies. Many adamently claim that the IFOs are of no significance, while they suggest that the preponderance of evidence (but no single proven TRUFO) makes their case. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:37 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:00:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:01:50 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - Kerth >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:57:29 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:50:48 +0100 >>I guess you could be thinking of her early "red (I think it was) >>barn" study, where a suggestion by a questioner apparently >>became part of the memory of witnesses to an accident film? <snip> >Pardon me for jumping into this thread. Actually I think you are >referring to an experiment by Loftus which consisted of a series >of slides which showed various stop-frame views of an apparent >accident. Following the slide show, respondents are asked to >recall certain visually presented data, such as the color of the >vehicle which hit the second vehicle, or whether there was a >stop sign at the corner, or whether this in fact was a yield >sign, etc. Hi, Linda: I was thinking particularly of the part of the accident study where the interviewer mentions a "red barn", which wasn't in the picture, and a significant fraction of subject reported seeing it. >This is typical of a lot of experimental studies by Loftus and >others, who fail to distinguish between central or core >information (e.g., there was a two car accident at a corner) >with relatively non-essential or incidental information (e.g. >color or make of the automobiles). I understand your point. In the example you cited above, though, the color and make of the automobile may very well be the key thing to identifying a suspect in a crime. In the matter of "Identified Flying Objects" (IFOs), former UFO reports which have been found to be prosaic objects, it is often some peripheral thing which seems unusual which has fooled the witness into thinking that they have experienced something extraordinary. A common example that I can think of is autokinetic motion of the eye muscles, wherein a phenomenon of normal eyesight is noticed and suggests that something strange is going on. >The major problem with such experimental protocols is that they >simply do not even approach real-life situations in their impact >and immediacy. Sitting in a dark room, safe and secure in an >experimental laboratory, is vastly different that standing on a >corner witnessing an actual accident (especially if one feels >personal danger). Ergo, whatever Loftus's experimental findings >may be, they will never approximate real situations, and cannot >be generalized to such. I think that you are probably right. >There is much experimental literature, BTW, which shows that >visual memory in situations of heightened awareness (such as in >potentially dangerous situaltions) is really quite good, >especially as far as central (or gist) information is concerned. Yeah, I can think of the classic article, "John Dean's Memory" by Ulrich Neisner (?). The problem is in carrying a generalization forward to each individual case. Depending upon who is keeping the numbers, non-IFOs (remaining unkowns) can account for 90-98% of UFO reports. Please see Kevin Randle's post on the 27th for a good example. Thanks for the input. Clear skies, Bob Young "We are never deceived; we deceive ourselves." - Goethe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 1 ET Mania Sweeping Beijing From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:49:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:01:49 -0400 Subject: ET Mania Sweeping Beijing Source: Xinhua News Agency http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2002-07/27/content_500672.htm Stig *** ET mania sweeping Beijing Xinhuanet 2002-07-27 21:26:20 ** BEIJING, July 27 (Xinhuanet) -- One picture shows a wrinkly face from outer space with an ear-to-ear smile, and another, the beaming outer space visitor and his earthling friend flying on a bicycle silhouetted against the moon. These are two of the 11 images on a series of ET T-shirts beingwidely worn in Beijing as science fiction mania spreads throughoutChina's capital this summer. Just one month ago, Steven Spielberg's new version of "ET", a classic movie about a stranded space alien who befriends an American boy, was being played at almost all the cinemas in Beijing. Smart businesses seized a golden opportunity to sell T-shirts by printing the images from the original ET movie before the new one was released, resulting in scores of Beijingers bearing the amiable alien's face. Now alien-watchers are queuing to get tickets for another American blockbuster, "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones". Just three days after the release of Star Wars, the box office takings in Beijing hit 2.5 million yuan (301,200 US dollars). Thisexceeded the joint takings of "Harry Potter" and "Lord of the Rings" in their first three days. In addition to record box office sales, Li Xuelei, director of Bossini brand promotion in Beijing, said a record 80,000 T- shirts have been sold in a single month, making the most successful movie- clothes marriage ever. Li said demand is particularly high for the T-shirt showing ET and his buddy flying past the moon. Other products connected to extraterrestrial beings are suddenly appearing. Following the film success, a new book series of Star Wars quickly found its way to Beijing bookstore shelves. According to the statistics from the Beijing Bookstore Building,one of the country's largest bookstores, in less than 10 days, 248copies of "Episode I" and 311 copies of "Episode II" have sold. Both copies are priced at 25 yuan (3.1 US dollars) or higher, yet sales are expected to soar when the movie finishes in Beijing. Xinghe, a noted Chinese science fiction writer, said extraterrestrial beings used to be a touchy topic in China as there was fear that delving too deeply could bring "social chaos".However, as society has become more open to new ideas, people havebecome more comfortable with the subject. He also said, "The improvement in living standards leads to more time to think about things like the mysteries of outer space." ** Copyright =A9 2000 Xinhua News Agency. All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Battle of L.A. Searchlight Equipment - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 00:36:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:05:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Battle of L.A. Searchlight Equipment - Maccabee >From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:21:40 +1000 >Subject: Re: Battle of L.A. Searchlight Equipment >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:26:14 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Battle of L.A. Searchlight Equipment >>I have uploaded some processed versions of the Battle of LA >>photo along with some cursory analysis indicating a size of the >>object. Interested people should go to: >>http://brumac.8k.com/battleofla/battleofla.html >You wrote: "I don't know the film speed or the f stop of the >camera. However, I would guess that this is a time exposure >because (a) the light beams show up and (b) there are quite a >few "explosions" (I presume) which probably did not happen all >at once. The exposure could have been several seconds." >If it were a time exposure, wouldn't we see illuminated >shrapnell streaks? Like one see's in fireworks photo's? I think you are referring to tracer fire..... Don't know that they were using tracer rounds. You might be right. You might be wrong.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 1 Hard To Get To Possible Life In Europa's Ocean? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:21:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 10:50:47 -0400 Subject: Hard To Get To Possible Life In Europa's Ocean? Source: The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/spacedocumentary/story/0,2763,756868, 00.html Stig *** Fishing for aliens There could be life in Europa's ocean - if we can get to it, writes Matthew Genge Thursday July 18, 2002 The Guardian ** Water, simple H20, is the fluid of choice for life. Just about everything that goes on in living organisms goes on in water - billions of complex chemical reactions all happening submerged. Not surprising then that on Earth the oceans hide a swarming proliferation of life from the simplest of bacteria to the aquatic mammals with their complex social existence. It is in another deep blue sea, on Jupiter's moon Europa, that scientists, therefore, hope to find life beyond the Earth, and last week that search took its first important step when the Nasa Europa Orbiter project was endorsed as one of the agency's flagship missions. The most recent results, however, suggest that even if Europa is the most likely haven for extraterrestrial life, it may also be the most difficult place to find it. The very existence of its ocean came as a complete surprise. Europa is too small to keep its heat and should, therefore, be cold and geologically dead. However, images of Jupiter's satellite sent back by spacecraft lead us to suppose that Europa is anything but a ball of ice. The rarity of craters on Europa's surface, compared with the pockmarked moons Ganymede and Callisto, suggests that these scars have been removed by the eruption of water from below the surface. More telling, however, are areas with crenulated rafts of ice, looking like planetary crazy paving, which strongly resemble images of sea ice on Earth and so betray the ocean that lies beneath. The presence of an ocean on Europa, it turns out, is due to its stressful relationship with the planet Jupiter. Europa stretches in and out like a rubber ball as it circles the giant planet because one side of the moon, closest to Jupiter, is pulled harder by the planet's gravity than the other. Since the path followed by Europa takes it sometimes nearer and sometimes further away from Jupiter, the moon's shape wobbles as it circles the planet. It is this constant stretch and release exercise that heats up Europa's interior and prevents its ocean from freezing. Calculations suggest, in fact, that enough heat is generated to maintain an ocean around 60km deep, 20 times the average depth of those on Earth. Simply the presence of an ocean on Europa, however, does not mean that life evolved beneath its surface. Without the right chemical building blocks for life, such as carbon, sulphur and phosphorous, and an appropriate source of energy, Europa's ocean would be more barren than any desert on Earth. Recent calculations, therefore, present a real problem for life on the icy satellite since they suggest that shortly after it formed, it was highly deficient in the chemicals needed to build living things. The same, nevertheless, was also true of our own planet and yet life is here in abundance. In the case of the Earth, it is thought that components important to life were added by the collision of comets. Last month, new research showed that despite its small size, which would allow much of the debris from a colliding comet to be blasted back into space, enough should be retained to ensure that Europa has the right stuff for life. So what about an energy source? On Earth, sunlight ultimately provides the energy for most living things. On Europa, however, the sunlight, which is already weak, would only penetrate several metres into the ice and will not illuminate the deep oceans. In places on the bottom of our planet's oceans, however, life flourishes in the absence of light and gets its energy and nourishment from mineral-rich hot water vents. Such vent communities might also exist in Europa's oceans if geothermal vents, produced by Jupiter's heating of the moon's stony interior, issue from the base of its ocean. The results of the latest research on Europa, published in the journal Science, have, however, delivered the cruellest blow, if not to life on the satellite, certainly to our chances of finding it. Dr Paul Schenk, of the Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston, has discovered that what craters are present on Europa are completely the wrong shape. Those larger than 25km in diameter should have lofty central peaks but instead, they are disappointingly pancake-flat. The reason, Schenk believes, is that bigger craters have punched all the way through the icy crust to the ocean below which, not surprisingly, has flowed out to fill up the holes. The craters thus tell us how thick the icy crust of Europa is - 19km. NASA had planned to explore Europa using robotic probes that would melt their way down through the icy crust to search for life in the ocean below. This Eskimo "hole in the ice" trick, however, was enough of a technical challenge when the icy crust was thought to be 1km thick; at 19km, it's probably entirely unfeasible. Evidence for life might be found, however, when the Nasa Europa Orbiter takes a close look at the surface in 2010, since the water from the ocean that has filled craters and erupted elsewhere on the surface may have carried tell-tale signs of life with it. The orbiter may even locate some thin ice, for example close to the huge fractures caused by Europa's stretching, where a probe could reach the ocean. For now, however, it seems that Europan cod and chips will be off the menu for some time to come. ** Guardian Unlimited =A9 Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 1 CCCRN News: New Web Site For BLT Research Team From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:08:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 11:02:21 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: New Web Site For BLT Research Team CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada July 31, 2002 _____________________________ NEW WEB SITE FOR BLT RESEARCH TEAM The BLT Research Team Inc. web site is now online, featuring the in-depth scientific work from the past decade on the crop circle phenomenon with published materials and reports as well as new scientists (Professional Consultants) and projects. A must-see! http://www.bltresearch.com Please also note that the CCCRN web site should be back online by the end of the week or the weekend. Thank you for your patience and support. ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 ET Mania Sweeping Beijing From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 05:49:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:41:50 -0400 Subject: ET Mania Sweeping Beijing Source: Xinhua News Agency http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2002-07/27/content_500672.htm Stig *** ET mania sweeping Beijing Xinhuanet 2002-07-27 21:26:20 ** BEIJING, July 27 (Xinhuanet) -- One picture shows a wrinkly face from outer space with an ear-to-ear smile, and another, the beaming outer space visitor and his earthling friend flying on a bicycle silhouetted against the moon. These are two of the 11 images on a series of ET T-shirts beingwidely worn in Beijing as science fiction mania spreads throughoutChina's capital this summer. Just one month ago, Steven Spielberg's new version of "ET", a classic movie about a stranded space alien who befriends an American boy, was being played at almost all the cinemas in Beijing. Smart businesses seized a golden opportunity to sell T-shirts by printing the images from the original ET movie before the new one was released, resulting in scores of Beijingers bearing the amiable alien's face. Now alien-watchers are queuing to get tickets for another American blockbuster, "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones". Just three days after the release of Star Wars, the box office takings in Beijing hit 2.5 million yuan (301,200 US dollars). Thisexceeded the joint takings of "Harry Potter" and "Lord of the Rings" in their first three days. In addition to record box office sales, Li Xuelei, director of Bossini brand promotion in Beijing, said a record 80,000 T- shirts have been sold in a single month, making the most successful movie- clothes marriage ever. Li said demand is particularly high for the T-shirt showing ET and his buddy flying past the moon. Other products connected to extraterrestrial beings are suddenly appearing. Following the film success, a new book series of Star Wars quickly found its way to Beijing bookstore shelves. According to the statistics from the Beijing Bookstore Building,one of the country's largest bookstores, in less than 10 days, 248copies of "Episode I" and 311 copies of "Episode II" have sold. Both copies are priced at 25 yuan (3.1 US dollars) or higher, yet sales are expected to soar when the movie finishes in Beijing. Xinghe, a noted Chinese science fiction writer, said extraterrestrial beings used to be a touchy topic in China as there was fear that delving too deeply could bring "social chaos".However, as society has become more open to new ideas, people havebecome more comfortable with the subject. He also said, "The improvement in living standards leads to more time to think about things like the mysteries of outer space." ** Copyright =A9 2000 Xinhua News Agency. All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 NASA To Monitor 250,000 Stars For Earth-Like From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 07:00:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:43:49 -0400 Subject: NASA To Monitor 250,000 Stars For Earth-Like Source: The Tennessean http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/07/19893376.shtml?Element_ID=3D1= 9893376 Stig *** Saturday, 07/13/02 Middle Tennessee News & Information A whole new world? Astronomer searches the universe from his post at TSU By MICHAEL CASS Staff Writer ** If scientists discover life in other parts of the universe =97 or conclude that extraterrestrial life is only science fiction =97 a Tennessee State University astronomer will have played a crucial role in laying the foundations for that research. Working at the university's downtown campus, from which he programs seven TSU-owned telescopes at a southern Arizona observatory every night, Greg Henry has been involved in some of the most significant astronomical discoveries of recent years. Last month, Henry helped a team of researchers find two solar systems with planets in orbits similar to those of our solar system, a find that could mean that it is more likely that Earth is not the only place life exists. "Ultimately, if we find we're not alone in the universe, that's a profound philosophical and theological revelation," said Henry, who works at TSU's Center of Excellence in Information Systems. "That's a question people have asked since the beginning of recorded history. And we're on the verge of being able to answer that yes or no." It could take at least another 10 to 20 years before researchers can answer the question. But Henry's work has helped to move the quest along. Henry, who provided the first direct confirmation of the existence of a planet outside our solar system in November 1999, helped find the new solar systems with some of the same methods. When he realized that some stars appeared to be "wobbling" slightly, he knew there could only be a couple of explanations. Either the brightness of the stars was changing because of internal reactions or because of the pull of the gravity of planets that orbited the stars =97 as Earth, Mars and other planets in our solar system orbit our sun. Henry, who has worked at TSU for 13 years, was able to determine the stars' brightness was constant. So "it was hard to imagine any other way they were wobbling than because of planets tugging on them," he said. More important for the possibility of extraterrestrial life, Henry and his colleagues =97 who work at the University of California at Berkeley, the Carnegie Institute of Washington and other institutions =97 discovered a planet with a "Jupiter-like" roughly circular orbit. There was enough space between that planet's orbit and the central star of one of the new solar systems for an Earth-like planet to fit in at the right distance from the star to support life, Henry said. The next step will be a NASA mission in 2008 that will take minute-by-minute photographs of a section of the sky for four to six years, monitoring about 250,000 stars, Henry said. Astronomers will use the surveillance to determine how many Earth-like planets there are. Follow-up missions will study those planets and determine if life exists on them. Henry said TSU's involvement in such heady work can be traced to the establishment of the Center of Excellence in Information Systems in 1985. Michael Busby, who has been the center's director since 1986, saw an opportunity when the federal government started a number of programs to increase the representation of minority groups in science and engineering. TSU, a historically black school, was "able to go out and compete" for grants once it found a few research niches, said Busby, whom Henry calls "the genius behind this center." Busby said the center now has a $4.5 million annual budget, with only 10% of the money provided by the state. The balance comes in grants from agencies such as the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and the National Science Foundation. Henry and other professors at the center have written 400 refereed, or peer-reviewed, academic journal articles in the past 10 years. "We're a pretty good-sized little business," Busby said. James Hefner, TSU's president, said the center's work and Henry's part in the planetary finds are drawing notice, proving the university is a stronger intellectual force than many people give it credit for. "We continue to make discoveries that excite the academic world as well as the general public, and we're excited about that," Hefner said. Henry, 51, said he wouldn't be able to do the same kind of work with the same level of support anywhere else. He's ecstatic to be involved in research that truly has cosmic significance. "I can't imagine a more exciting time to be alive," he said. * Michael Cass covers education for The Tennessean. Contact him at mcass@tennessean.com or 259-8838. ** =A9 Copyright 2002 The Tennessean A Gannett Co. Inc. newspaper Use of this site signifies that you agree to our terms of service (updated: 08/01/2001). Associated Press content is Copyrighted by The Associated Press.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:11:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:45:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:53:58 +0200 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:56:59 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>If you put me against a wall with a gun to my head, I would >>probably say "hoax", but before Jerry jumps on me again, I >>emphasise that this is a suspicion rather than a deduction, and >>I have no idea who might have been hoaxing who, why, or how, and >>I am always ready to consider further evidence. >Uhm, doesn't this strike anyone as odd? >I think one can honestly say that in most if not all UFO cases >there is enough to suggest that "something" happened, which of >course includes the possibility of a prosaic cause or not (to >wit, you're including the hoax possibility as a potential >explanation here). >Quite frankly, I don't think Jerry (nor anyone other sane >person) would consider this possibility an example of a "highly >anomalous UFO case" where something happened "out of the >ordinary" if you're already putting forth the hoax hypothesis as >your gut feeling. >In short, Jerry is right. You can't provide an example of an >unexplained anomalous UFO case where you accept the testimony as >accurate and consider it indicative of an extraordinary event. It seems I'm getting flack for trying to be honest here. As readers will know, I have constantly chided Jerry Clark for what I see as his untenable position that whilst he accepts that some UFO reports seem to represent solid, structured, intelligently guided craft which display charateristics that indicate they are not produced by earthly technology, he will not go on from that to say that he thinks they are extraterrestrial. That is is perogative, although I shall probably chide him about it some more in the future. I was trying to be upfront and stating what my totally unprovable "gut feeling" was, and then going on from that to say that I found as many problems with the hoax hypothesis as with any other. Yes, I do accept the TW testimony as accurate, and I do accept it as evidence of an extraordinary event. Of course, it may be that the only "extraordinary event" that you find acceptable is an extraterrestrial one. I (and I think Jerry) have a broader view than that. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:10:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:47:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:33:55 -0500 >Yes, we are endlessly told that by investigators from the >Brazilian Navy. Nowhere in the official records of the case - >which exist in English translation and have been published in >the UFO literature - is there a single statement to the >contrary. Nor anywhere is there a single mention of the name of a single individual who saw the alleged UFO other than Barauna and his three friends (and one of them is only named as a witness and gives no statement). There is only one report by a Brazilian naval official in the literature, and although it refers to other witnesses, there is no indication that the investigator has spoken to them; he is simply relaying what he was told. >There is nothing ambiguous about any witness statement.* This is >simply rank nonsense, of the sort one would expect from a Menzel >or a Klass - and apparently, now, from a Rimmer. >*Note to listfolk: John wants us to believe this statement (from >eyewitness Amilar Vieira Filho) is "ambiguous": >"What I saw, in fact, was an object of gray color and oval in >shape when first sighted, which passed over the island and then >-- emitting a fluorescent light it didn't possess before - went >away toward the horizon and was gone, vanishing just on the >horizon line. Everything happened in just a few seconds, in more >than 20 seconds, and for this reason I cannot give you more >details about this curious craft. It looked like an object with >polished surface and uniform color. I am sure it was not a >balloon, an airplane, or a seagull." >Maybe John wants us to believe it was a pelican. Maybe John would like to add the first sentence of this statement, which Jerry conveniently omits: "First, I want to make it very clear that I don't know if what I saw was really the so-called flying saucer" >Investigating >authorities state repeatedly that there were many witnesses, in >two groups, and that they saw what Barauna photographed. There are no "investigating authorities" making "repeated statements". A report was submitted to the chief of the Brazilian Navy High Command, which was forwarded to the Navy Minister. This report was compiled by Jose Geraldo Brandao, a Corvette-Captain in the intelligence service. This report seems to be based entirely on the statement of Corvette Captain Baccellar. Brandao does not seem to have interviewed Barauna or any of the other alleged multiplicity of witnesses. The interview in which Barauna gives his version of the events appears in a newspaper, not in an official report. The reports by Vieira and Viegas - the only two other named individuals who directly claim to have seen the UFO, also appear in a newspaper, and not in an official report. In fact the official report gives all the appearance of being something quickly put together to satisfy an enquiring politician. How many times have we seen this happen - from Washington to Rendlesham? >Not a >shred of evidence has emerged that Barauna faked the pictures or >even that he was a liar; yet we are repeatedly treated to smarmy >innuendo that people are not to be trusted because they knew >Barauna, as if the man were known to be unsavory. This is the >sort of sleight of hand one associates with professional >character assassins, or pelicanists. In any photographic case, where the only direct witnesses are associates of the photographer, there must surely be at least an element of caution? <snip> >If this case were a hoax, it would be child's play to expose it. >All it would take was negative testimony from witnesses, which >could have been collected on the spot or very soon thereafter. >Or could have emerged in subsequent days, weeks, months, or >even years as discussion of this sensational incident continued. I have already addressed this point. There was no incentive, and possibly a real disincentive for anyone who didn't see a UFO to stay silent. This is quite apart from the fact that if there *were* no other witnesses, and people only came up onto the deck of the ship following the commotion raised by Barauna et. al., no-one would have been in a position to challenge the claim that someone else *did* see the object. Jerry consistently pretends not to understand this argument. >Or in photoanalysis showing the object to have been a model. >None of these things have happened. If the Trindade sighting >and photos are a hoax, they are the most remarkable in history, >since they have stood for decades without the emergence of a >_single item_ of negative evidence. I do not know enough about photography to suggest how any possible hoax may or may not have been produced. Photographing a model is not the only possibility. However, this is not relevant to the question of the lack of witnesses, which has been the main thrust of my argument. >Again, all the evidence collected, according to Brazilian Navy >investigators, produced only testimony affirming the presence of >the UFO in the photograph. Again, we have this suggestion that there are vast dossiers of information collected by the Brazilian navy. There are not. There is one report of about half-a-dozen pages, compiled by an Intelligence Officer who seems to have spoken only to the captain of the Almirante Saldhana. Is Jerry always so trusting of official military reports, or is it only the ones which suit his argument? Presumably we can take everything the British and US governments have said about Rendlesham or Roswell as gospel? >You have not laid a glove on these >facts, John. All you have done is find holes and fill them with >evidence-untainted inunendo and speculation. Yes, I have found holes, but you have failed to fill them with facts. >When you have >something more - which I'm sure you never will have, since in >the 44+ years since this remarkable case occurred no one else >has, either, despite fevered effort - let us know. What is this fevered effort? >Quite a number of posts ago, I tried to find some common ground >with you so that we could drop this and resume our lives. You >refused to do that, and I have spent fruitless time trying to >reason with you, trying to point out that you have exactly no >evidence, only speculation and innuendo which fly in the face of >everything investigators at the scene determined about the >sighting and the UFO photos. There were no "investigators at the scene", just someone who came along some time later and interviewed one person, who was below decks at the time the event occured. If Menzel or Phil Klass had done that, you'd be spitting feathers, as we say over here. >They were there, and you weren't, No, they weren't there either. >and their conclusions about what happened contradict yours in >every particular. In my judgment, any reasonable observer will >know whom to believe. Maybe readers would like to know what the conclusions of the official Brazilian navy report to the Minister were: "Considering the presentation of the facts and the summary analysis made, reported in the previous item, it can be concluded: "a) That there are a number of witnesses who stated that they have sighted UAOs over Trindade island. Such witnesses have different qualifications and the observations were made on different days. [No argument. I am surprised that so little is made of the observations on the island before the ship arrived - JR] "b) That most reports presented are insufficient, mostly due to the lack of technical skill of many observers and to the brief duration of the phenomena observed, so that no conclusions can be reached concerning positive data about the UAOs. "c) That the most important and valuable evidence presented, the photographic, somehow loses its convincing quality due to the impossibility to prove a previous montage. [Rather ambiguous - presumably a glitch in the translation. This sentence only makes sense if the word is "disprove". However, I think the meaning is clear - JR] "d) That the emotional reaction of the persons who have reported the sighting of UAOs is very strong and easily noticed. [This emotional rection is very puzzling, but perhaps that's for another day as well - JR] "e) That finally the existence of personal reports and of photographic evidence, of certain value considering the circumstance involved, permit the admission that there are indications of the existence of unidentified aerial objects. [What Jerry would call an unfalsifiable argument -JR] "The last conclusion listed above permits me to suggest to Your Excellency that this High Command must take into consideration all the information to be obtained about the present subject in order to be able to reach conclusions beyond and doubt." Well, interesting no doubt, but we end up with the familiar suggestion that more research is necessary before being able to reach a conclusion. Not a ringing endorsement, and certainly no suggestion that the sheer number of witnesses added to the quality of the sighting. I guess Capt. Brandao's promotion prospects were not harmed by this report! >Meantime, I am ending participation in this discussion and plan >not even to read further posts on this thread, lest I be tempted >to respond to them, even knowing that you are taking us nowhere >except to endless recycling of nothing arguments. Probably just as well, as you seem to be going nowhere either. The Trindade case holds its status because it was believed that there were a considerable number of witnesses - up to 48 according to Jerry, 150 according to the Lorenzens. It is clear now that there is no evidence to suggest that more than three people, all colleagues, made a direct statement that they saw the UFO. The dozens of other witnesses are a result of wishful thinking and an optimistic interpretations of very slender evidence. However, as Jerry is not going to read this, presumably the argument ends here. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:06:11 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:49:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:40 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >Then we wouldn't be skeptics, would we? I think that should read "pseudo-skeptics", Bob. A skeptic you certainly are not. >Essentia non sunt >multiplicanda praeter necessitatem Parsimony, lovely. Of course, it can easily backfire when your suggested prosaic resolution to a case requires more coincidences/"entities" than taking the case at face value. And where does it stop, Bob? Should the razor still slice and dice even in the face of contradictory evidence? I know you love to pigeon-hole stuff and all. ;) Many self-proclaimed "skeptics" just have no idea at all on how to properly use Occam's razor. They just blurt it out each time because they feel it is "convenient" to them. Jean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:14:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:51:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:43 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:36:43 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:57:29 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case ><snip> >>>I don't quite catch on, here. How does accumulated noise, >>>presumeably from accumulated studies, end up creating a positive >>>result? >>It's a filtering effect. >>Results in experimental psychology are evaluated using >>inferential statistics. A result is considered significant if >>it is sufficiently large, that it would be consistent with a >>null hypothesis of "no effect" only at or below a given level of >>probability (referred to as the significance level). >>However, since one cannot affirm a null hypothesis under these >>circumstances, a negative result (or failure to reach >>significance) is not considered meaningful and so cannot >>normally be published. >>Inevitably then, "significance" can accumulate in publication >>through noise alone, since no-one knows how many failed attempts >>at replication remain unpublished. >>Worse than this, though, is the problem that if positive results >>occur due to experimental error or demand bias, the >>corresponding experiments in which these errors or biases are >>corrected, and which consequently don't produce "positive" >>results, are unpublishable. This makes it especially difficult >>to eliminate experimental bias or demand characteristics from >>psychological research. >I understand. You know, this is a lot like what has happened in >'Ufology'. Pro-UFOers seldom publish negative case studies. Many >adamently claim that the IFOs are of no significance, while they >suggest that the preponderance of evidence (but no single proven >TRUFO) makes their case. Hi Bob, I'm not sure what significance IFOs would have other than signposts and a way of filtering out the wheat from the chaff. For the most part though, their reporting just wastes time weeding them out. However, at the same time there must be the reporting of these in order to weed them out, thereby showing the difference between the IFO and the TRUFO-sort of as a learning tool. If you are referring to IFOs as detrimental to the eye-witnesses ability to identify the prosaic, then no argument. But that's an educational thing - a learning curve if you will for future witness. We are all a product of our environment, background and education. I mean, look - you're still learning; slowfully, painfully - but you're getting there. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 McMinville/Rouen UFO Appear In UK 52 Years Later From: Chris Rolfe <UFOMEK@whsmithnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:20:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:59:06 -0400 Subject: McMinville/Rouen UFO Appear In UK 52 Years Later On Thursday,13 June 2002 Mr Bob Fetch and his son observed from their property in Tonbridge, Kent, England, an object that they at first though was a childs helium filled balloon. But the object was moving sideways and not upwards, which aroused their suspicions, and it appeared to be disc shaped. Mr. Fetch ran into the house to grab his camera, and with his son ran after the object. They found themselves in a field behind the Langley Hotel, in London Road, Tonbridge, where they got a good view of the object, and there were several other people out walking their dogs who also saw the object, which was completely silent. Mr. Fetch managed to take one clear photograph of the object in colour, before it silently flew off. They observed it for about ten minutes. He forwarded the photograph to his local newspaper, the Kent & East Sussex Chronicle, who published in their July 12 edition. So far UFO Monitors East Kent, and UFO Magazine have only seen the picture as it appeared in the newspaper article, but hope to see the hard copy very soon. It shows a disc like object with what looks like an aerial or tower on top, just like the McMinville photographs taken by Paul Trent on 11 May, 1950, in the State of Oregon, USA, and again photographed in Rouen, France in 1954 by a French Airforce pilot. Another witness also from Tonbridge, has come forward to claim that he saw exactly the same object as Mr.Fetch and his son. This other witness says he saw it in the Ashdown Forest area in East Sussex (approx 15 miles SW of Tonbridge). UFOMEK, hope to speak to this witness very shortly. The photograph taken by Mr.Fetch, shows a tree, and building in the foreground, and according to the newspaper reporter who UFOMEK investigators spoke to, it also shows in the original print the field they were in, as well as a dog. Until we receive the original print we cannot pass judgement on it's total authenticity, but initial work done on the photograph as shown in the newspaper article by Russell Callaghan of UFO Magazine, and independent UFO researcher Jerry Anderson, shows promising results. If the photograph proves to be genuine, then it could be one of the most important ones ever to be taken in the past 50 years. It will mean that the same or similar object has not only been seen, but also photographed in three different Countries, in a space of 50 years. It could mean that someone on Earth has disc technology that works, or dare it be said, someone from elsewhere. Chris Rolfe UFO Monitors East Kent
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Report On Recent Bonnybridge Skywatch From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 02:56:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:01:32 -0400 Subject: Report On Recent Bonnybridge Skywatch Source: Falkirk Today http://www.falkirktoday.co.uk/fullstory.asp?storyid=5 Stig *** Friday Aug 2 2002 UFO spotters undismayed Weather hampers sky-watchers investigation ** CLOUDY skies obscured the view for UFO-spotters anxious to investigate the Bonnybridge phenomenon at the second Skywatch to be held in the village.. The crowd, about 30 strong, which turned up last Saturday, was brought together by Strange Phenomena Investigations (SPI), a society that researches accounts of the paranormal, hoping to capture evidence of UFO activity on video. SPI founder Malcolm Robinson was disappointed that the weather conditions hampered possible sightings but he remains adamant that the reported activity must be investigated until an explanation is found. He said: "We are trying to make the people of Scotland aware that there is a UFO phenomenon, not just in Bonnybridge but in Scotland. It demands an explanation. There is no smoke without fire. "The phenomena has been ongoing since 1992 and UFOs have been sighted in the area nearly every second day. We had to put ourselves in that ball park and see what was happening." The visitors gathered in the Royal Hotel in the village's High Street, and heard presentations from Mr Robinson and Brian Allan from Kincardine, from SPI Scotland. Just after midnight a convoy of cars made its way to the moors where the Skywatch took place. Despite the lack of UFO activity, Mr Robinson said the night had not been a total failure. He said: "There were a number of aircraft viewed and it was a good exercise in helping people recognise mundane, ordinary things in the sky. Most UFOs can be explained but the rest are totally baffling. It is important that research continues to be done because answers must be found." Mr Robinson is dismayed by the lack of government support for an official investigation but he is anxious that the study of the Bonnybridge skies goes on. He said: "If any Falkirk Herald readers believe they have seen something themselves, in particular if they have video or photographic evidence, they should contact me." Mr Robinson can be reached at 41 Castlebar Road, Ealing, London, W5 2DJ, or by phoning him on (020) 8998 4936."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Pat Garrett's Killer, Wayne Brazel, Related To Mac From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 05:15:21 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:13:52 -0400 Subject: Pat Garrett's Killer, Wayne Brazel, Related To Mac As many of you will know, William 'Mac' Brazel was a leaseholder of the Foster ranch near Corona, the ranch being situated about 75 miles or 130 km northwest of Roswell, New Mexico. After the famous UFO crash in 1947, he found wreckage on the property and brought a few pieces to the sheriff's office in Roswell. Later on the rest was removed by personnel from the town's, then, air-base. According to the 'Breazeale Kinfolk' page by Tim Brazeal at: http://millennium.fortunecity.com/rollingacres/427/didyouknow.html the Brazeal (Brazel) name is the 14,392 most popular name in the U.S., percentile is 74,867, frequency is 0.001%. I don't know the number of inhabitants in New Mexico in the beginning of the previous century, when Mac Brazel was born, but in 1930 it was 423,317 which means that the number of Brazels was about 4, statistically. On March 1, 1908, Wayne Brazel shot and killed Pat Garrett, famous for doing the same to Billy The Kid at Fort Sumner, New Mexico. Brazel allegedly shot Garrett in self defense and was acquitted. See Southern New Mexico Online's lengthy article at: http://www.southernnewmexico.com/snm/garrett.html On the circumstances around Billy The Kid's death see: http://www.southernnewmexico.com/snm/billykid.html Well, I just wonder if anybody knows if Wayne is a relative of Mac Brazel of Roswell fame? Garrett and Wayne lived near Las Cruces, New Mexico, certainly, a couple of hundred kilometers from Mac's ranch near Corona, but due to its desert character New Mexico was very thinly populated then, as it is now, and Wayne and Mac both were ranchers. Garrett's daughter, Elizabeth Garrett, a nationally known soprano and a fine composer, lived in Roswell, by the way. See: http://www.desertusa.com/mag00/jul/papr/gar.html Stig Agermose
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 'Signs' Brings Bonanza From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 05:47:27 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:17:14 -0400 Subject: 'Signs' Brings Bonanza Source: The Boston Globe http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/213/living/Circular_logic+.shtml 'Signs' Brings Bonanza Of Books, Documentaries And TV Shows In Its Wake Good link on the page! Stig *** Circular logic Crop formations may be shrouded in mystery, but the media are betting they'll make sense at the cash register By Vanessa E. Jones, Globe Staff, 8/1/2002 ** They call themselves cereologists, a term that makes them sound as if they're researching Cap'n Crunch or Froot Loops. But the people in this group study crop circles, those dazzling geometric designs that have been carved into barley, wheat, and oat fields throughout England, Germany, Japan, and the United States. The summertime phenomenon has been around since the 1970s. And ever since then, people have wondered whether the circles were the work of aliens, natural phenomena, or pranksters armed with planks and an astute design sense. The circles will reach their largest audience ever on Friday with the release of M. Night Shyamalan's film "Signs." The movie stars Mel Gibson as a former minister who discovers a formation in his Pennsylvania cornfield. "Signs" is merely the first drop in a cereological storm. The people behind a bonanza of books, films, and television shows on the subject hope to ride the popularity of the movie to profits. Two documentaries have already been made: William Gazecki's "Crop Circles: Quest for Truth," scheduled for an Aug. 23 release, and Marcus Thompson's "A Place to Stay," which is seeking a distributor. Recently published books include Werner Anderhub and Hans Peter Roth's "Crop Circles: Exploring the Designs & Mysteries" and Eltjo H. Haselhoff's "The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles: Scientific Research and Urban Legends." Barbara Walters has considered the subject worthy of "20/20" treatment. Cable channels from Discovery to History to Learning plan to air specials. The vortex of publicity is dragging into the mainstream the eccentric "croppies" and the circle makers (yes, they're human) who toy with them. It's all a little funny, considering that the crop circles in "Signs" are the jumping-off point for a film that's really a rumination on faith and aliens. "Shhhh. Don't mention that," jokes Rob Pulleyn, publisher of Lark Books in Asheville, N.C., which ordered a 30,000-copy first printing of Anderhub and Roth's paperback coffee-table book "Crop Circles," a dramatic increase from the usual first printing of 5,000. Anyway, does it matter when "Signs" brings attention to a cast of cereologists and hoaxers who are colorful enough to inspire a movie? There are believers such as Nancy Talbott, president of BLT Research Team Inc., an organization run out of her Cambridge home that consists of "seven or eight consulting scientists and several hundred field workers around the world," she says. "Our main purpose is to carry out real scientific research, not this pseudo stuff," she adds disdainfully. It sounds convincing until she reveals that before studying crops she promoted country- music festivals. Like Talbott, Colin Andrews, an electrical engineer from England who now lives in Branford, Conn., once thought the circles were a natural phenomenon. But today, the man Disney tapped to provide information for its "Signs" Web site doesn't mention the A-word. After all, who wants to get pegged as a UFO nut? Instead, he vaguely says, "I don't think we're looking at anything quite in the area of Mother Nature. ... The evidence I'm having to go with is that ... whatever is making the crop circles knows precisely what it's doing." Hogwash, says Joe Nickell, 57, a senior research fellow at the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal in Amherst, N.Y., who has been investigating unexplained phenomena for 30 years. He easily earns his debunker tag, calling the croppies "cultlike," "pseudoscientists," and "mystery mongers." In case you don't get his point, he adds, "Some of these people are not credible." But hoaxers such as John Lundberg can't exist without them. Lundberg's brash, London-based three-man collective, Circlemakers, calls what it does conceptual art. He and his crew see their work as a collaborative piece involving the cereologists, the media, the public, and themselves. "The most interesting part of our work isn't particularly the pattern making," the 33- year-old says earnestly from his London home. "It's all the myths and folklores and stories that build up around the work." That mythology compelled Pulleyn to choose "Crop Circles" as the single "wacko" book he publishes annually, he says. "There seem to be real questions: How do these things happen overnight? Who did them? I almost don't want an answer," he says, chuckling. "I also don't want it to be extraterrestrials." Talbott discovered the subject while browsing in the international section at Harvard Square's Out of Town News about 10 years ago. She emerged from the store with a magazine filled with photos of circles. A cereologist was born. "I went to England right away," she explains in a deep voice. The country is crop- circle ground zero. Andrews estimates that 95 percent of the world's circles appear within a 40-mile radius of Stonehenge. Could this be explained, as Nickell dryly suggests, by "a correlation between England and a lack of video arcades, bowling alleys, and other methods of amusement?" Talbott doesn't think so. She happily launches into long, scientific-sounding explanations of the circles. She talks about plasma vortexes, energy systems that she believes swoop down and stamp fields with distinctive patterns. She mentions "massive deposits of ... pure iron" that coat plants. Proudly and often, Talbott states that three of her studies have been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals: two in Physiologia Plantarum, a Danish journal of experimental plant biology, and one in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, a publication founded by a Stanford University professor that focuses on scientific research outside the mainstream. Like Andrews, she boasts that she's received funding from Laurence Rockefeller. She doesn't mention that Wired magazine recently described Rockefeller as a "UFOlogist." Nickell can just as convincingly give reasons that cereologists are deluding themselves. He tells his side slowly and carefully, as if he's explaining common sense to a 2-year-old. Isn't it convenient, he asks, that the number of crop-circle sightings increases in correlation to media coverage? As for the stamps of approval from scientific journals, the research would be more credible if it were tested against a circle that doesn't have the mark of human intervention, Nickell says. "Just going out and finding something when you don't have anything to compare it to is not proof of anything." Why not ask the Nancy Talbotts of the world, he suggests, how they explain the increasing size and complexity of recent circles? The question flusters Talbott. When prodded, she huffs that she can't explain research that has taken 10 years to compile. This is a 21/2-hour lecture, she complains. To understand it, she says, it's necessary to read BLT's information packet, which contains photographs and scientific papers. The package costs $35. When the same question is posed to Lundberg, he doesn't need money or 21/2 hours to answer it. He talks about the spiritual fathers of present-day circle makers, Brits Doug Bower and Dave Chorley, who in 1991 admitted to making the early circles. The men were disturbed when Terrence Meaden, an English meteorologist studying crop circles, started explaining them away with the plasma-vortex theory. "They didn't want people to think it was natural," Lundberg says of Bower and Chorley. So the teasing began. Crop circles grew from simple circular formations to rectangles, triangles - there's even one with an intricate basket-weave design. Their sizes expanded from several feet to 15 acres. These days, Lundberg says, the goal is to "do stuff so huge, so complex, that people would question that it's man-made. " And how is it done? His www.circlemakers.org Web site, which has been logging a quarter of a million hits daily, offers a how-to guide suggesting designs and equipment (surveyor's tape, planks, garden rollers, hangers). According to his recommended method, the center is formed via an awkward one-man dance that has the circle maker pivoting on one foot while the other foot flattens the surrounding stalks. Surveyor's tape is then attached to a stick stuck into the center of the newly formed central circle. The circle makers decide on a radius length and then, keeping the tape taut, walk around the stick, leaving a slight trail with their feet. Voila! A perfectly made circle. All that's left is to stomp the formation into shape. The hoaxers' activities caused Meaden to be "utterly disgraced and humiliated," Nickell says. As for Andrews, who worked with Meaden and coauthored the first book on the phenomenon in 1989, Nickell says, "He now has, to coin a phrase, egg on his face, shirt, jacket, trousers, spattered on his shoes." Today, Andrews concedes that 80 percent of the English circles are man-made. Why does he remain a believer? "We have patterns as large as three-quarters of a mile across," he says plaintively. "The more impressive the geometries, the more impossible they look to be performed in a short period of time by people." Spoken like a person who's never made a crop circle, says Lundberg. All it takes to make the huge ones, he maintains, is a team about 10 people strong. And, apparently, steel nerves. "It's actually really stressful to do it," Lundberg says. "The more people you have in the field, the more of a nightmare it is to coordinate." With "Signs" on the horizon, observers expect circle sightings to spike. A 25-foot design popped up in an Oregon field last month. "Every man and his dog will be going out to make one," cackles Lundberg. But don't even think of grabbing a few drinks before hitting a field. "You have to be stone-cold sober if you're going to make them; otherwise you get wonky crop circles," says Lundberg. Like the one depicted in the book "Crop Circles" that extends in a long, jagged line? He laughs, saying, "Maybe those are the ones that are made by aliens." ** This story ran on page D1 of the Boston Globe on 8/1/2002. =A9 Copyright 2002 Globe Newspaper Company. =A9 Copyright 2002 New York Times Company
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 UConn Physicists Try To Build First Time Machine From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 05:31:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:15:32 -0400 Subject: UConn Physicists Try To Build First Time Machine Source: Fairfield County Weekly (Connecticut), August 1, 2002, http://www.fairfieldweekly.com/articles/timetravel.html Stig *** Will UConn physicist Ronald Mallett build the first time machine? By Alistair Highet ** Boyd Mallett, in the words of his son, "was the best". After a stint in the Army, Boyd became a television technician at a time when TV was the technology of the future. He was "the repairman to the stars," his son Dr. Ronald Mallet laughs. Then he gets out of his broad desk chair to gather some photographs. One is of his handsome father in the Army, smiling under a helmet. Others are autographed photographs from movie and Broadway stars of the 1950s-- including a young Walter Matthau with his hair slicked back-- thanking their friend Boyd for coming to fix their TV at a moment's notice. But Boyd Mallett lived and played hard. A heavy smoker, he died of a heart attack at the age of 33 when his son, now a distinguished professor of physics at the University of Connecticut, was only 10. "I really loved my father, and he was fun," says Mallett. "That was a terrible period for me." For solace, like a lot of smart kids, Ronald Mallett turned to books, particularly the H.G. Wells landmark 1895 novel The Time Machine, where a young scientist, overcome with grief at the death of his fianc=E9, builds a carriage out of brass and crystal that allows him to hurtle back and forth in time. Long before Albert Einstein worked out the math, Wells, in his novel, theorized that time was a fourth dimension that could be moved through. "That became a kind of fascination for me," Mallett continues. "I had this idea that if I could go back in time and see my father, I could talk to him and help keep him alive." Nearly 50 years later, Mallett may be on the verge of building the world's first operative "time machine," though it will bear little relation to that of Wells, or to the DeLorean sports car of the movie Back to the Future, or the Tardis of Dr. Who or any of the other hundreds of time traveling mechanisms that have been imagined since Wells first took a crack at it. Mallett's machine, as laid out in his May 2000 paper in Physics Letters entitled "Weak gravitational field of the electromagnetic radiation in a ring laser," is based on Einstein's formulation that light and matter are both forms of energy. We know that matter can bend space-time and according to Einstein's theory, matter and light are both forms of energy. So why can't light bend space-time? This fall, with UConn colleague Dr. Chandra Raychoudri, Mallett will begin work on building a "ring laser"--basically, a device that will create a circulating light beam, perhaps within a photonic crystal that will bend the light's trajectory and slow it down. Then, a neutron particle will be sent into the space in the center of the beam. In short, the beam--perhaps two beams in one model, with the light traveling in opposite directions--is expected to twist the space-time inside the circle into a loop. Think of a spoon stirring thick gravy in a pot and creating a vortex, only the vortex in this case is the fabric of space-time twisting, with past, present and future, circling one another so that the future precedes the past. Then--and while this might not seem very exciting--a neutron, a small particle of matter--will be sent into the center of the beam. If its spin is affected, then it is being affected by warped space-time. In a further experiment that Mallett has considered, two identical samples of a radioactive substance could be put into the center of the ring, one going in the direction of the beam. The other in the opposite direction. Since radioactivity decays at a measurable rate, it would be possible to measure, in effect, the time that both particles had experienced within the beam. If the time proves to be different, then time will have been measurably altered. Eventually, says Mallett, "what would be neat is if you saw another neutron in there that you hadn't introduced yet." In essence, the same neutron "visiting itself from the future." So you've moved a neutron. So what? What Mallett will have shown--if it works--is that the fabric of time itself can be altered by light, and a thing can be moved into the past. If it works for a neutron, in theory, it would work for you and me. Imagine then--and put aside the engineering problems for a moment--a machine big enough to walk into. As you would walk forward within the confines of the light beam, (see diagram below) you'd have the impression of moving forward, but because of the space-time vortex, you'd actually be moving backward. You could walk back through time-- maybe even passing yourself as you entered the ring. Mallett's proposition has generated considerable popularity; The Christian Science Monitor, Village Voice and Boston Globe have all taken note. There are also a lot of skeptics. Mallett invites them. This is academia after all, and in serious science, you want to have your ideas doubted and tested. "My problem with Ron Mallet's ideas is that I don't know how it is going to be possible to warp the space-time with his laser," says Robert Ehrlich, author of Nine Crazy Ideas in Science and a professor at George Mason University. It is true that space time is not empty, but is a kind of fabric, and that "matter tells space how to curve, and the curved space tells light how to move," says Ehrlich, citing a popular short explanation of how the universe works, but he adds: "I don't know that light can distort gravity in this way. I would be very skeptical about his plan." Allegheny College physicist Shafiqur Rahman is also skeptical. He says that what is missing at this point is a "quantum theory" for how gravity works. In other words, we don't have a sufficient grasp of the specific relation between mass and the experience of gravity to predict how light would affect time. But he adds, "But we could have an experiment that shows it, that's true. We could have an experiment that shows travel into the past without a theory." What is not really controversial in the world of contemporary physics is that time travel is theoretically possible. Indeed, travel into the future has already been proven. The respectability of such theorizing is relatively new. In fact, Mallett kept his private fascination with time travel "a secret," through most of his career, he confides. "I wanted to be taken seriously as a physicist, and not a crackpot." Mallett is a big, open kind of man. His home office--in a tasteful Victorian not far from the university--with its comfortable padded chair parked before an impressive computer, is the perfect meditative chamber for a man concerned with the nature of time. It has a remarkable stillness to it, with books, software and busts of classical composers on the bookshelves. Mallett plays the piano. There is also a small photograph of Marilyn Monroe on the wall. Einstein, once asked to explain relativity, said: "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes; when you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours- -that's relativity." After his Ph.D. in physics from Penn State in 1973, Mallett then spent a few years making lasers for United Technologies before joining the UConn faculty. It wasn't until 1998 that he thought about writing a popular book about time travel, and discovered that "there was a ton of serious work being done on this stuff." All of that serious work is based on the work of Einstein, and to understand it--if you don't grasp the math (and few of us do)--means throwing out most of the operating assumptions that we have about how the universe we move around in really works. Travel to the Future Already Possible Most of us live comfortably in the world of Isaac Newton. Apples falls from trees because they are attracted by "gravity," the pull of the Earth on things. This works pretty well for most of what we do. So, too, do we believe that time is a kind of constant. It moves at the same rate for all things at the same time, or in Newton's words, time is "flowing equally without relation to anything external." But all of this was problematized at the turn of the 19th century by the discovery that the speed of light was a constant, 186,000 miles per second. Since light speed is a constant, time and distance become suddenly things that stretch and contract in relation to light and motion. Think of it this way. Say there are two cars on a highway with floodlights on the roof. One car is stationary, and the other is moving toward you at 100 miles an hour. If the distance and the time are constants without relation to anything external then the light on the moving car should reach you at 186,000 miles per second, plus 100 miles an hour. It should reach you before the light from the stationary car. But it doesn't. What that means is that the time and the space between you and the cars contract based on the speed of the car. In fact, mass, velocity and time are all relative to the speed of light, and they all change depending on the speed that an object is traveling. That's the essence of the theory of special relativity. Not that this has much effect on us at the speeds we are dealing with in our daily life. Still, travel into the future has already been proven. In 1975, Professor Carrol Alley tested Einstein's theory by using two synchronized atomic clocks-- one on an airplane and the other on the ground. At the end of the flight, the one on the plane was behind the one on the ground. Time had slowed for the clock on the plane--it had traveled forward in time. Princeton professor J. Richard Gott notes in his book Time Travel in Einstein's Universe that the world's most accomplished time traveler is the cosmonaut Sergie Avdeyev, who was on board the MIR space station for 748 days. Gott calculated that Avdeyev, traveling at 17,000 miles per hour for more than two years, traveled into the future by about 1/ 50th of a second. Big deal. True, a miniscule amount of time. But what if it were possible to travel at light speed--put aside the technical problems, the massive amounts of energy required, and the tremendous friction that such a vessel would encounter as the universe around it got increasingly flat and heavy. British physicist Steven Preston notes on his website that in a Newtonian Universe--where time flows equally with regard to everything--a trip to Andromeda, some 2.2 million light years away, would take about 2,065 years. But because of special relativity, it might take a spaceship an entire year to accelerate to the speed of light, so 365 days. But after that period, it would take no time at all to reach Andromeda. The distance would have shrunk to zero. So it would take a year for an astronaut to reach Andromeda and a year to get back. Two years. But his twin brother on the ground would have been dead for just under 2.2 million years. That's travel into the future and it is consistent with the laws of nature. The Grandfather Paradox Travel into the past presents a host of other problems. A man decides that he wishes he had never been born. In fact, he wishes that his parents had never been born. He goes into a time machine and travels back to a time before his grandfather got married. He walks up to his grandfather on the street and shoots him dead. Does he then pop out of existence himself? How could he have gone back to kill his grandfather in the past, if in effect, having killed his grandfather, he never existed? This is the grandfather paradox and it is one of the philosophical sticking points when thinking about travel into the past. It's a paradox that has bedeviled all science fiction explorations of the issue, like in the film Back to the Future where the main character finds himself disappearing when his mother--just a high school student--starts to take a romantic interest in him instead of the boy that would turn out to be his father. But theoretically, the idea that travel into the past is possible has been embraced by many respectable physicists. The science of this again originates with Einstein and the general theory of relativity. What we think of as gravity is really the effect of mass on space-time. Think of a bowling ball on a trampoline, says Mallet (see diagram above). Space has elasticity, like the surface of the trampoline. If you put a smaller ball on the trampoline, it will roll toward the bowling ball. Time slows down the closer one is to a large mass. A clock on earth moves slower than a clock running on an empty spaceship, floating between galaxies. So theoretically, a very great mass-- if it could be made to spin in the right direction-- could make time go backwards. So where do you get this enormous mass? Black holes, or "wormholes" are the answer that most physicists talk about, in large part due to the late Carl Sagan, a Cornell astronomer and the author of the 1985 novel Contact. Sagan wanted his characters to travel from a point near the Earth to a point near the star Vega, and theorized that the travel would take place through a black hole--a swirling, gravitational vortex of infinite density in space that is created by a star falling in on itself. Not even light escapes, and a black hole would certainly suck you in very, very fast. Sagan wasn't sure about the science so he contacted CalTech physicist Kip Thorne to ask him how it might work. Thorne sat down to prove that it was nonsense, but was forced to concede that theoretically, it could happen--and that traveling through space this way could also mean traveling through time, particularly if you could go through a "wormhole," a sort of tube through space and time with black holes at either end. Engineering such a thing is problematic to say the least, and the simple beauty of Mallett's idea is that since light and matter are both forms of energy, he can create a small vortex with light, without having to deal with enormous mass. But if there is time travel, why aren't we inundated with visitors from the future? And how do we solve the grandfather paradox? If Mallett could go back and save his father, he wouldn't become a physicist, and so wouldn't build a time machine, and wouldn't go back to save his father? Allegheny College physicist Rahman says there are several ideas that physicists kick around to deal with these paradoxes. First, we may be inundated with time travelers and not be aware of it. Maybe that's what UFOs are. Another is one proposed by Cambridge's Stephen Hawking who has proposed a "chronology protection conjecture." In essence, that there is a law of nature that simply prevents people from tinkering with the past. You go back to shoot your grandfather and the gun jams, then you miss, then he gets on a bus ... and so on. Another idea--one favored by Mallett among others, and based on quantum physics--is that there are limitless universes, where all probabilities are actualized. In other words, in one universe you go back in time and kill your grandfather, and in another you don't. In one Universe Hitler decided not to invade Russia in 1941, and so he won the war. And in another universe, Lee Harvey Oswald really did shoot Kennedy, and so on. While this is a favored view, it is hard to accept on the basis of common sense. Says Rahman: "That means that every second there has to be an infinite number of splits, you are talking about more universes than particles in the universe. More matter has to be created all the time. It sounds difficult." Then there is another possibility, one that is more chilling perhaps, and more likely, and one attributed to Italian physicist Enrico Ferme. "It may be that technological civilizations don't have the life span that they can develop time travel," Rahman says. "Civilizations burn fossil fuels, which leads to a greenhouse problem, and the end of the civilization for instance. There are mechanisms in place that mean civilizations don't last long enough." So a society is on the verge of time travel when pollution destroys it. A new civilization scratches its way out of the rubble, and reaches a point where it is on the verge of time travel, when it collapses, and so on. None of these paradoxes worry Mallett very much. He thinks the "many worlds theory" of splits in the universe is consistent with physics, and that just because we don't understand how the universe works, doesn't mean that time travel is out of the question. In fact, Mallett is optimistic that a real time machine that could transport a person will one day be built. "It would just be a problem of engineering," he says. "When the Wright brothers invented the airplane it only flew a few yards at first, and now look," says Mallett. "We make the effort to overcome the engineering obstacles." So could Mallett possibly go back and see his father again? No, he says, it isn't possible. You couldn't go back in time to a time before a time machine was built. "So I don't think we can go back any further than when we have a time machine that works." But if Mallett's design is successful, it will be a major scientific advance, always associated with the story of Boyd Mallett. In a sense, the hard-living and fun-loving Boyd Mallett will live forever in the story of the beginning of time travel, and his son will have saved the memory of his father from time's ravages. "It comes full circle," Mallett nods and smiles as he reflects on the ironies. "It's quite a story." ** Copyright =A92002 New Mass. Media, Inc. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 "Come Back" New England - A Spot On Alien's From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 06:01:09 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:19:42 -0400 Subject: "Come Back" New England - A Spot On Alien's Source: Boston Herald http://www2.bostonherald.com/lifestyle/lifestyle_trends/life08012002.htm Stig *** COME BACK: New England deserves a spot on alien visitors' itinerary by Stephanie Schorow Thursday, August 1, 2002 ** Phoning E.T.: Don't you like us anymore? Back in the 1960s, space aliens visited New England on a regular basis. At least, it seemed that way, judging from the numerous sightings of strange lights in the sky, close encounters and the first - and most famous - alien abduction case. But, alas, these days our fickle, silver-skinned, narrow-eyed, notoriously camera-shy visitors appear to be hovering elsewhere. Perhaps they can't take the congestion, the unpredictable weather, the proliferation of video recorders or the annual Red Sox heartbreak. Tomorrow's opening of the movie "Signs" - in which strange designs pressed into a Pennsylvania field convince Mel Gibson of an impending alien invasion - is another reminder that we're no longer popular with the not-ready-for-prime-directive players. Crop circles, the focus of "Signs," have never, with one possible exception, been found in New England even though they are quite popular in England, just a warp-drive jump away. Nor has New England experienced the bizarre cattle mutilations reported in the West and Midwest and just this year in Argentina. Maybe aliens prefer barbecues to clam bakes. We haven't had sightings of black helicopters, and the only men in black are in the movie theater. Again. Of course, we do have John Mack, the Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer and Harvard University psychiatrist who concluded in his highly publicized 1994 book "Abduction: Human Encounters With Aliens" that alien abductions were real. But since that 1995 unpleasantness with a Harvard oversight committee and a second book, "Passport to the Cosmos: Human Transformation and Alien Encounters," Mack has retreated to academia. It didn't used to be this way. In September 1961, Betty and Barney Hill were driving through New Hampshire's White Mountains when they saw bright lights in the sky and subsequently discovered they had "lost time." Under hypnosis, they recalled being taken aboard a spacecraft, examined and released. Their "medical examination" and their descriptions of hairless, gray-skinned aliens preceded (and many insist influenced) hundreds of similar tales. Another classic UFO sighting happened near New Hampshire's Pease Air Force Base in 1965, when a large number of people, including two police officers, saw glowing objects in the sky. Writer John Fuller described the events in his bestseller "Incident at Exeter," which was a textbook example of the skeptic turned believer. Fuller had gone to investigate the New Hampshire reports on a lark, but briefly glimpsed one of the strange lights himself. Fuller went on to write the 1966 book "The Interrupted Journey," about the Hills. The couple's case also has inspired a TV movie. One of the more famous UFO photos was taken on July 16, 1952, in New England, when a seaman on duty at the Salem Coast Guard Station saw four lights in the sky. He took a single photo of them through the window of his office. Some have attributed the lights to window reflections. See for yourself under "Historical Sightings" at the Web site of the Massachusetts chapter of the Mutual UFO Network (members.aol.com/MassMUFON). But Boston's connection with the beyond goes even further back. One of the first, if not the first, recorded sighting of a UFO in North America occurred in Massachusetts in the 17th century, according to MUFON. In 1638 or 1639, three men in a boat on a river in Boston saw a bright light in the sky that "flamed up" as it hovered. The men said the light moved as "swift as an arrow" and one dutifully reported the sighting to Gov. John Winthrop, who noted that others also had seen the light. As for crop circles, the only documented example reportedly occurred around Aug. 20, 1993, in Amherst. According to an e-mail from Christopher Pittman, historian of the Massachusetts MUFON chapter, a 10- foot-high isosceles triangle of flattened vegetation was found in a bed of ferns among some trees. "The ferns, which were a foot and a half high, had all been flattened in the same direction," Pittman wrote. "Like many crop circles, this formation was investigated and no explanation was determined." So aliens aren't entirely ignoring New England, nor we them. Local sightings continue: Check out the latest by location or date at: www.geocities.com/Area51/Nova/8874/ ufoartls.html Spencer Collier, a Cambridge computer technician, has organized the New England Studies of Unidentified Flying Objects Investigative Group at www.nesufoig.com. Is New England off the alien radar because we don't have large, flat wheat and corn fields conducive to circle-making? Well, we do have miles and miles of beaches. If we can't have crop circles, we could have sand circles. For inspiration, aliens should check circles.orcon.net.nz/indexc.html for examples of elaborate sand circles created by an enterprising earthling. And we've got BEER! Boston-based Harpoon puts out the tasty "UFO Hefeweizen," which goes well with lobster and clam strips. Betcha Planet Zergon doesn't have that. So, listen up all you little green (or silver or blue) men (or women or whatever): Put on your bathing suits, get out your coolers and come back to New England. We'll leave the lights off for you. ** Copyright by the Boston Herald and Herald Interactive Advertising Systems, Inc. No portion of BostonHerald.com or its content may be reproduced without the owner's written permission.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 06:11:54 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:21:19 -0400 Subject: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? Source: San Francisco Chronicle http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/chronicle/a/2002/08/01/MN4288= 7.DTL Stig *** Cereal spin doctors Crop circles: Precursors to a close encounter with ET or merely catering to the public's appetite for 'occult metaphors'? Rick DelVecchio, Chronicle Staff Writer Thursday, August 1, 2002 =A92002 San Francisco Chronicle. ** On April Fool's Day four years ago, Joe Nickell issued his skeptics' Top 10 list of the world's hardiest paranormal hoaxes. His prime examples included the Amityville Horror, King Tut's Curse, psychic surgery and the Roswell saucer crash. Nickell, an investigator for the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal in Amherst, N.Y., is still surprised by the tenacity of one item on his list: crop circles. "You would have thought that at some point the phenomenon would peter out, that it would cease," he said, "but it's taken on a life of its own." And it's about to become even more popular. Three new films -- including Hollywood's first crop-circle blockbuster, which opens Friday and stars Mel Gibson -- explore the large-scale geometric patterns formed by the flattening of grain stalks in rural fields, characteristically in southeastern England. The International Crop Circle Database has cataloged 2,000 crop formations, some going back to the 1950s. It logged three of unknown origin in the mid- 1990s in Santa Rosa, Gilroy and in a field of wild oats near a yoga retreat center in Watsonville overlooking Monterey Bay. Reported formations so far this year number 48, including 34 in the United Kingdom. Other hot spots are Germany and the Netherlands. A few have been made in the United States. Virtually all are the work of hoaxers, Nickell says. That crop circles resist the tramplings of skeptics seems to result from their ability to inspire feelings of awe, serenity, oneness, beauty or fear among followers from Christians to New Age spiritual devotees to scientists with a metaphysical bent. The most elaborate formations have the symmetry of a Hindu mandala, or the interlocking bands of a Methodist flow chart from post-Revolutionary America. Nickell says they spark more ferocious feelings than almost any other phenomenon he investigates, with the possible exception of the Shroud of Turin, debunked as Christ's burial cloth. Some of the designs are simple: The one reported in 1997 on Mount Madonna, near Watsonville, swirled counterclockwise in a single curve, 4 feet in diameter, according to the database. Others are quizzical: A peace symbol reported in a Gilroy field in 1996. The crop circle phenomenon is bigger than most Earth mysteries because of the formations' visual appeal. There are "circular" calendars, T-shirts and pendants. What's called the formations' "sacred geometry" fills New Age conferences, books and videos. Dutch physicist Eltjo Haselhoff's "The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles, " a full-color production by Berkeley's Frog Ltd., delves into circle-related scientific oddities and contemplates the formations' Euclidean precision. The three new movies see circles as awe-inspiring. In Disney's "Signs," a formation appears in farmer Mel Gibson's cornfield. Bad news: It's a landing site for hostile aliens. In "Crop Circles: Quest for Truth," documentary producer- director William Gazecki says there are far too many circles in England alone for all of them to be fakes. Are they "navigational points," messages, warnings? The crop circle-studded countryside of England's Wiltshire district -- home of the world's first cafe with a crop-circle theme -- is the setting for the British film "A Place to Stay," a love story between a traveler and a Gypsy. The movies are appearing as the circle season hits its annual peak in August, just prior to the harvest. The 2002 season has produced at least one sensation already. Inscribed on the Fourth of July near England's ancient stone circle of Stonehenge was a six-pointed pattern of what appear to be flying ribbons. Nothing like it had been seen before. Many of the devotees, known as cerealogists or "croppies," say such impressions signify life-affirming forces. There's lively talk about whether the forces are natural, extraterrestrial, interdimensional or "the mind of God. " "What is the best way for one species to communicate with another species? Not by language but by mathematics, which is universal," said Joshua Shapiro, chairman of the World Mystery Research Center. The formations have crossover appeal to those who believe in ecological catastrophe, who see them as messages for, or from within, the sacred, maligned Earth. But to skeptics, the circles are human creations intended to service public demand for "occult metaphors," which are as old as the resurrection of Christ. Dennis Stacy of San Antonio, Texas, publisher of the journal the Anomalist, took part in two expeditions to English circles in the early 1990s. He sent back crop samples to the first U.S. researchers, but later his doubts grew. "We've had sporadic crop circles in this country, and by the same token we've never had anything of the complexity of English crop circles," he said. "If these are being made by alien crop circle-makers, why do they make such crappy circles in the United States and Canada and such exquisite ones over there?" One reason: English wheat fields have tractor wheel paths that offer covert access without leaving telltale footprints. Another: The fields are thick, uniform and easily shaped. People with simple tools can sneak in and create impressive formations in no time. A 1960s UFO flap in several countries featured weedy swirls known as "saucer nests." Two English pranksters had this image in mind when they started the modern circle trend in 1978, Nickell said. Crop pictograms came in 1990 and grew more embroidered over time. They continue to evolve -- twisted, beaded, braided. Circle-makers are "honorable pagan artists" trying to make a better world through covert action, said Ron Russell of Aurora, Colo., a 64-year-old artist and scientist who has investigated the trend. "Plus, when they make it, they get what I would call a juju experience," said Russell, who grew up in Menlo Park. "That is, they get contact with something from beyond." But he says not all formations are human made. He can't explain the 400 simple circles of six to 20 feet in diameter that appeared worldwide over hundreds of years before the modern trend began. Just weeks ago, several such swirls appeared in wheat fields in Canada's Prince Edward Island after wicked thunderstorms passed over. Along with physicist and author Haselhoff, Russell is one of the few of a scientific bent who are studying the mystery. Their research focuses on strange emanations of heat, light and other forms of energy -- the source, says Russell, of the "juju experience." Both men argue that the subject deserves intensive study. Haselhoff said the formations showed "a great amount of curious plant alterations" that couldn't be reproduced by mechanical flattening. "Some of these are cellular changes, and dramatic changes in the germination behavior of seeds," he said. He believes that some method exists to allow the formations to be created at a distance. "Heat is involved, emitted by something that manifests itself as a ball of light," he said. "Very rich people playing a silly game?" he said. "Aliens? The military? It's no use to speculate as long as we don't even understand the basic mechanism of crop-circle creation." ** E-mail Rick DelVecchio at rdelvecchio@sfchronicle.com. =A92002 San Francisco Chronicle. Page A - 3
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: P On The National UFO Reporting Center - Acres From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 19:25:04 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:29:24 -0400 Subject: Re: P On The National UFO Reporting Center - Acres >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:43:17 +0000 >Subject: Re: AP On The National UFO Reporting Center >>From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 02:06:24 +0200 >>Subject: AP On The National UFO Reporting Center <snip> >I'd like to ask Listers here if anyone else is aware of this >seeming "men in black" type of suppression of non-standard-size >or form humanoid skeletons? >It may be that a determined research effort in this area would >produce some of the best 'hands-on' type evidence for the ET >hypothesis. Hi Errol, Eleanor, Stig & list. I read an unsubstantiated story on the 'net about an Aussie girl who was working as Park Ranger in the US. I can't remember all of the details, I saved the file, but can't find it again now! Anyway, apparently there was a huge mudslide near a border?, after much rain, which uncovered large humanoid skeletons that had weird skulls with two rows of teeth! They had the job of helping to excavate them under the supervision of the Smithsonian Institution. They were searched upon arrival & departure of the site by armed guards. When time came to leave the US, she was detained at the airport until the FBI arrived to lecture her on the seriousness of the secrecy agreement all of the workers had to sign. Who knows? The internet is full of BS. But it wouldn't suprise me if it were true! I mean, we know they lie about modern UFO/alien evidence, makes sense they would cover up the past evidence as well! Fortunately a few relics have survived in private collections and museums outside of the control of the controllers. Have you seen this great article: http://www.enigmas.org/aef/lib/archeo/askulls.shtml Also see: http://www.nexusmagazine.com/arcoverups.html The NZ cover-up is for real! But most likely for political reasons, not to suppress alien evidence. Nexus tends to over- dramatize things, so check thoroughly before quoting them! :) Regards, Dave
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:25:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:26:42 -0400 Subject: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? Hello all: A few of you must have UFO related websites up, this question is addressed to you especially. The main (entry) page of my *U* UFO Database website: http://www.larryhatch.net/ has a pair of visit (hit) counters at the bottom. The reason for two is that one or the other goes down from time to time. This is my only page with counters, and I keep a daily tab to see if I had much traffic. For the 33 days preceding 04 July 2002, I averaged 73.7 visits per day. Suddenly, and starting off with a bang (183 hits on the 5rth of July, my hit counts nearly doubled. At first I thought it was due to the long weekend etc., but it hasn't let up. For the 30 days now logged starting with 5JLY02 I am averaging 124.9 hits per diem, a good 70% higher than the previous month. My question is whether this is unique to my website, some hot link or listing in the search engines say, or whether the same thing is happening to UFO sites in general. If the latter, I wonder what the cause might be. The Washington F-16 flap didn't come until later if I have that right. There was indeed a TV special, " July 5 UFO Day On History Channel" which explains the 5th, but not the continued interest. TV audiences are not known for long attention spans. If the former, I would sure like to know which link(s) or search engine placement caused so much unexpected traffic. Some feedback from other UFO webmasters might give me a good clue, much appreciated in advance. If your counts are just about normal for the same period, I would like to know that too. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 'Crop Circles: Quest for Truth' On-line From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:26:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:31:45 -0400 Subject: 'Crop Circles: Quest for Truth' On-line Award winning film-maker William Gazecki has just sent this around about his soon to be released documentary: The official movie website for 'Crop Circles: Quest for Truth' is now online: www.cropcirclesthemovie.com Cheers, Dave Haith
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 HUFOBC Report - 08-01-02 From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:55:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:42:09 -0400 Subject: HUFOBC Report - 08-01-02 Hi List Below I copies and pasted two posts I made to the CANUFO List. I had a telephone call from a reporter from the Smithers, B.C. newspaper, asking if I had received any reports for the Telkwa, B.C. area for July 29, 2002. I said I had not heard anything as of yet, but would keep my ears open. The reporter interviewed the witness today to grab his report for the newspaper which will be out next Wednesday. On my wanders around Houston, today, I heard about two witnesses who observed an object flying over Houston on July 29, 2002 around the same time as the Telkwa sighting. I have contacted them and am getting their reports. They watched the object for approx: 30 seconds before it went out of sight due to the mountains. Then the object was seen by a fellow in Telkwa, B.C., at a very low level - at approx: 300 meters. This evening, I found out that a military transport had touched down at the Smithers airport and that military trucks were seen running around the back roads in the area. I know this area well, as I live only an hour away, or less and go shopping, visiting family and friends often, or just drive the roads in the area looking around. There is nothing out there for the military. Matter of fact there are no military installations close by. From what I have been getting, folks are watching military vehicles moving around where they shouldn't really be any. The area is mostly farming areas, mountains with nothing but trees, lakes, etc..... So what is the interest for the military to be out driving the back roads? I am heading out first thing in the morning at around 7:00 a.m. to interview the witness in Telkwa. Also I will be getting the names of the folks who have seen the military trucks and hopefully be able to chat with them to see what it was they saw. I will also contact the Smithers airport and RCMP to see what they can tell me as I know the sighting itself was reported to the RCMP in Smithers. Anyway, if you hear of anything strange going on in the Smithers/Telkwa areas or anywhere in the Pacific Northwest of British Columbia, would you please let me know. Thanks a bunch and take care Brian BTW - I also received 4 other reports for the northwest (B.C.) also, so things are heating up again here. ----- Howdy Here is a little more about the sighting which took place in Telkwa, B.C. on July 29, 2002. It looks as if it turning out to be a bigger case than I first thought. I was speaking to the reporter again today, and she had already interviewed the witness who watched the object on the 29th. he gave her a good report from what she told me. I now have his name and phone number and I will be phoning him tonight to set up a sit down interview with him. Also while looking into this report, I found people here in Houston who watched the very same thing by the sounds of it. So two more witnesses watched the same thing while they were at their place of employment. After I visit the witness I will drop in and see the RCMP, and check the Smithers tower as they have information, not on the sighting, but on some things which have taken place in the Smithers area. from what I have been told, I first thought that this sighting was of a meteor, but now I really do not think so. From the speed the object traveled, and the altitude. It was very low. I am finding out something really strange is going on and I am going out at 7:00 a.m. tomorrow morning to interview the fellow who witnessed the object. Also tomorrow interviewing in length the two witnesses who seen the object travel over Houston. Now here is the strange stuff. I have now found out the military has been hanging around the Smithers area, military trucks have been seen on the back roads by folks. A Hercules aircraft had landed in the Smithers airport, and looking into this. Now this information about the military comes from more than one person, and the people have no connection to one another. I guess the people who have seen the trucks running around the farming community has really found it strange. And it is, there is nothing out there for any military. So if anyone hears of anything about the military carrying out some kind of exercises up and around the Smithers/Telkwa area, or military aircraft flying in and out of the Smithers airport, would you let me know please. Keep in mind, this is what I have been hearing, but right now I cannot verify anything at this time, but I do plan to get to the bottom of some of this as I will go and see these folks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Alien Burial Site? From: Chris Evers <chrishufos@hufos1.karoo.co.uk> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:38:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:46:30 -0400 Subject: Alien Burial Site? I am writing this to ask for your help. A colleague of mine here in the UK has been approached by a resident of California regarding details he claims could point to the existence of an alien burial site, these details can be checked out at the following website& http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk/frame.html I am also looking for information on a US based ufologist named James Black, whom claims to be an associate of Bruce Maccabee's. I would appreciate any offer of help in proving or indeed disproving the gentleman's claims. Does he exist? Further information we have, also suggest he is a resident of Toronto? Hoping you can help..... Regards Chris Evers EYE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 New Mutilation Case In La Tigra Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:19:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:49:08 -0400 Subject: New Mutilation Case In La Tigra Argentina SOURCE: Diario "Norte" (Province of El Chaco) DATE: August 2, 2002 ANOTHER MUTILATED BOVINE, THIS TIME IN LA TIGRA LA TIGRA (San Berrnardo Special Agency). Just when the SENASA report seemed to have done away with all of the theories that invaded our country and province with regard to cattle mutilations, a journalist from La Clotilde, Miguel Van Ek, informed EL NORTE of the existence of a case in La Tigra, in a field some 10 km away from the urban center. The pasture field, located in Lot 12, belonging to Horacio Salivar, 35, held a bovine who met the same fate as other similar ones which made the national news. Salivar remarked with stupefaction that a neighbor had told him last Tuesday that there was "a flutter of crows" over his field. Upon reaching the field, he found that an 11 month old calf had died, but revealing strange injuries, among them the absence of eyes, tongue, maxillary muscles and anus. The cattleman, confronted by this scene, alerted the local police unit, which in turn informed the Livestock Agency, contacting Pedro Tomas Bosch and the provincial capital's Rural and Ecological Police. But as of late Thursday, no one had visited the site, which leaves the rancher helpless in the face of the entirely atypical and fear-inspiring event. Other singular aspects beyond the injuries which apparently caused the animal's death is the fact that there was a considerable number of crows flying over the area, but contrary to what is usually the case when an animal has died, none of the birds dared approach the dead bovine. Nor did the other bovines, who usually surround their dead companion, at least in the initial moments, came close. In this regard, rancher Salivar stated that "it's evident that its been dead for a few days, but it's neither stiff nor smelly. One of my cows died a while back, and in that case, the crows ate it up in a matter of hours. This is very odd, and it's the first time I've seen it." he said. Moreover, the rancher manifested his annoyance toward the health authorities on the provincial or national levels, as well as municipal ones, "which did not even offer to provided me with minimal assistance," after the event was reported. He explained that "if I don't hear any word by tomorrow (meaning today) I will incinerate the anima, because I don't know what might happen. It could have a plague or something similar." Furthermore, the rancher said that "in all my years of working with livestock, I've never seen anything similar, only lately through television, when all of the cases became known at the national level." Finally, Salivar highlighted that both he and his farmhands refuse to touch the animal, "because it's something weird...I don't believe, as it is said, that the mouse is involved, because in looking at the animals position and body, it is very strange for it to die like that and that its eyes, tongue and everything else should be extracted so cleanly. Some days have gone by and there's still no odor. This is very weird," he insisted. ======================================= Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:57:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:17:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:37 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >The problem is in carrying a generalization forward to each >individual case. Depending upon who is keeping the numbers, >non-IFOs (remaining unkowns) can account for 90-98% of UFO >reports. (A reply to Linda Kerth) This is why it's important to apply a good understanding of visual perception and memory to the question of what is and is not an IFO, rather than relying on guesses or intuitions. >Please see Kevin Randle's post on the 27th for a good example. Kevin Randle has kindly forwarded me a copy of the IUR article he referred to in that post, and we're currenly having a discussion off-List concerning what psychological mechanisms may be involved. Since you're now citing this case as an example of how IFOs can become perceived as UFOs, could you perhaps offer your account of the process? I'm asking because I've twice before asked you to give an account of such a mechanism, and both times you've declined to do so. Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Archive Top 20 'Reads' 07-02 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:26:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:26:48 -0400 Subject: Archive Top 20 'Reads' 07-02 This list compiled from stats generated by Analog 5.22 website log analyser - the [numbers] represent reads..... 1 Bob Lazar - True or False? Glenn Campbell - [1354] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jun/m22-012.shtml 2 Filer's Files #27 - 2002 George A. Filer [1336] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m03-035.shtml 3 F-16 Scramble - CNN Report Kenny Young [405] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m27-023.shtml 4 'Bad Astronomy': Very Bad Indeed? Chris Rutkowski [319] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/apr/m05-017.shtml 5 Of Flying Wings & Hover Cars ebk [301] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/aug/m03-008.shtml 5 Washington F-16 Scramble - FOX Transcript Kenny Young [259] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m26-045.shtml 5 Of Sociopaths & Conspiracy Alfred Lehmberg [254] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/feb/m07-003.shtml 8 Weekly Filer's Files - #10-2002 George A. Filer [241] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m06-023.shtml 9 Washington Post On F-16s Pursuit Judith Simmons [228] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m27-028.shtml 10 Philip Corso Jr. Breaks Silence On 'Out There' Stig Agermose [228] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m04-007.shtml 11 Military Jets Chase Blue Light Over Maryland Steve Kaeser [228] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m26-042.shtml 12 F-16 Scramble - Analysis Kenny Young [219] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m28-020.shtml 13 New Article Suggests 'Face' Is Living Thing(!) Mac Tonnies [206] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m10-001.shtml 14 F-16 Scramble - Interview With NORAD Command Kenny Young [206] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m28-018.shtml 15 F-16 Scramble - Expanded WTOP Article Kenny Young [204] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m27-014.shtml 16 Argentina: Large UFO Causes Ground Effects Scott Corrales [199] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m24-019.shtml 17 The Great Scareship Mystery? Roy Hale [195] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m06-012.shtml 18 Roswell Cover-Up In Spielberg Series 'Taken' Stig Agermose [194] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m11-005.shtml 19 SETI's 'Holy Grail' Found In Deep Space Stig Agermose [194] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m25-017.shtml 20 Disney, UFOs, and Disclosure Grant Cameron [192] http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jul/m11-014.shtml ebk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 HUFOBC: More Sightings From Terrace, B.C. From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 06:25:38 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:52:55 -0400 Subject: HUFOBC: More Sightings From Terrace, B.C. I don't even have time to get these ready as they are coming in so quickly. In my email box this morning, I received a report of four witnesses observing a diamond-shaped object hovering above an area in Terrace, B.C. This took place on July 30, 2002, when other witnesses also claim to have seen multiple UFOs over Terrace. I'm all dressed and ready to head out to interview the people over the Telkwa sighting, will stop at the newspaper in Smithers and chat with the reporter, and stop into the RCMP, the Smithers airport, forestry, etc... So lots to do today. Take care, Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Kennedy UFO Letter Sells on eBay From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 07:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:56:47 -0400 Subject: Kennedy UFO Letter Sells on eBay An original letter signed by former Senator Robert Kennedy has just sold on the eBay auction site. The letter sent to a Mrs. Anne Epple of New York City,and was written to address the UFO subject. The letter was dated September 10, 1966, and sold for $220.28. The Epple letter becomes the second known letter written by Robert Kennedy on the UFO subject. ----- The United States Senate Washington D.C. September 10, 1966 Dear Mrs. Epple, Thank you for your thoughtful letter on "unidentified flying objects". Many reputable scientists also believe that there must be other beings in the universe. Dr. Harlow Shapley, for one, has stated that there is a high probability that there is other life in the universe. To believe that there is other life in the universe is not, however, to believe that "UFO's" are manned vehicles. One explanation of this phenomenon, in addition to those you mentioned, connects the lights that are seen with the gaseous tails of comets. A careful analysis of sighting to date has not given us any indication that "UFO's" are manned. I appreciate hearing from you on this matter and look forward to hearing from you again. Sincerely, (Signature) Robert F. Kennedy ----- The newly discovered letter is similar in content and style to another letter received on May 9, 1968 that Senator Kennedy sent to Gray Barker. At the time Barker was the publisher of Saucer News. In the Gray letter Senator Kennedy stated that he stated his interest in the UFO phenomena. He stated, "I am a card carrying member of the Amalgamated Flying Saucers Association. Therefore, like many other people in our country I am interested in the phenomenon of flying saucers." Scans of both documents can be viewed at: www.presidentialufo.com/kennedy_letter.htm The Presidents UFO Story www.presidentialufo.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:22:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:58:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:10:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:33:55 -0500 >>Yes, we are endlessly told that by investigators from the >>Brazilian Navy. Nowhere in the official records of the case - >>which exist in English translation and have been published in >>the UFO literature - is there a single statement to the >>contrary. >Nor anywhere is there a single mention of the name of a single >individual who saw the alleged UFO other than Barauna and his >three friends (and one of them is only named as a witness and >gives no statement). There is only one report by a Brazilian >naval official in the literature, and although it refers to >other witnesses, there is no indication that the investigator >has spoken to them; he is simply relaying what he was told. As the Brazilian Navy repeatedly has said, and as John Rimmer has repeatedly ignored, there were numerous witnesses, in two groups. Not a single statement to the contrary exists, and despite repeated challenges to produce one, John has yet to do so. Because he can't. Psychosocial ufology is pretty funny, I agree, but it is reaching new heights of hilarity when it is reduced to arguing, for the first time in the international history of the UFO phenomenon, that an official or military body is hiding _negative_ evidence for a UFO sighting. Even as he makes this extraordinary claim, John has yet to produce an iota of evidence for it. From thousands of miles and more than four decades away, John can only flail away with guesswork, speculation, and innuendo. I suppose some of you out there are trying to decide whether to laugh or cry. I urge the former. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Lowe From: Adam Lowe <nicap@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:23:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 11:06:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Lowe >From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:25:32 -0700 >Subject: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >A few of you must have UFO related websites up, this question is >addressed to you especially. >The main (entry) page of my *U* UFO Database website: > http://www.larryhatch.net/ >has a pair of visit (hit) counters at the bottom. The reason for >two is that one or the other goes down from time to time. This >is my only page with counters, and I keep a daily tab to see if >I had much traffic. >For the 33 days preceding 04 July 2002, I averaged 73.7 visits >per day. Suddenly, and starting off with a bang (183 hits on the >5rth of July, my hit counts nearly doubled. At first I thought >it was due to the long weekend etc., but it hasn't let up. >For the 30 days now logged starting with 5JLY02 I am averaging >124.9 hits per diem, a good 70% higher than the previous month. >My question is whether this is unique to my website, some hot >link or listing in the search engines say, or whether the same >thing is happening to UFO sites in general. <snip> Hi Errol, Larry & List, The NICAP site usually gets around 750 hits a week, but the week of 8th -14th of July it went up to 836 and for the week of 22nd - 28th it went up to 968. The last 3 days of July had 453 so the traffic did pick up for us last month as well. Adam
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Alien Burial Site? - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:31:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 11:10:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Burial Site? - Hall >From: Chris Evers <chrishufos@hufos1.karoo.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:38:52 +0100 >Subject: Alien Burial Site? >I am writing this to ask for your help. A colleague of mine here >in the UK has been approached by a resident of California >regarding details he claims could point to the existence of an >alien burial site, these details can be checked out at the >following website& >http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk/frame.html >I am also looking for information on a US based ufologist named >James Black, whom claims to be an associate of Bruce Maccabee's. >I would appreciate any offer of help in proving or indeed >disproving the gentleman's claims. Does he exist? >Further information we have, also suggest he is a resident of >Toronto? >Hoping you can help..... Chris, I don't understand your request. How can we help determine the credibility of this person if we don't know who he is? The story sounds pretty fishy to me, but impossible to evaluate without having any of the factual information. What university? What tests? What attorney? Tall tales are a dime a dozen, including those of Bob Lazar also featured on the site. They are utterly worthless in the form presented here. Give us some facts, some evidence! - Dick Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:47:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 11:13:17 -0400 Subject: F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report The preliminary report on the report of F-16s chasing a "ball of light" last week near Andrews AFB has now been released. Joan Woodward, of the Fund for UFO Research, has been looking into this case during the past week, interviewing the individuals involved, and making contact with the miliary. That report can be found on the Fund's web site: http://www.fufor.com/report_020726.doc During a local radio call in program last night on this subject, a commercial air-traffic controller who was on his way home from work saw what he felt was the same "blue" object last Friday morning at about the same time as the F-16 chase. When he contacted the control tower to see if they had it on radar, they confirmed that they saw something. Of course, this is all hearsay from a caller on the telephone, and attempts are being made to confirm this information. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 01:44:59 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:08:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:42 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:04:56 -0500 <snip> >"I usually start UFO investigations with, Hi Bob! I'm just curious! :) Do you do actual investigations? Or do you just mean research? Do you get paid to do it? Or do you just do it voluntarily? Or are you an Author? <snip> >You are refusing to admit that a misperception of what you >call, This radical magnitude occurs". We have more than 50 >years of IFOs to disprove this. And of course one could argue conversely that there are possibly over 26,000 years of UFO evidence if you study the snapshots of the past from the Artists who recorded sightings of flying craft, lights and stories of them. Clear open-mindedness, Dave Acres
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:46:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:14:32 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report - Kaeser >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:47:54 -0400 >Subject: F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report <snip> >involved, and making contact with the miliary. That report can >be found on the Fund's web site: Obviously I meant "military" and not "miliary". Guess I need to select "Change", rather than "Add", in the spell checker..... <g>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Pat Garrett's Killer Related To Mac Brazel? - From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:39:32 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:13:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Pat Garrett's Killer Related To Mac Brazel? - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 05:15:21 +0200 >Subject: Pat Garrett's Killer, Wayne Brazel, Related To Mac Brazel? Good Morning, All - >As many of you will know, William 'Mac' Brazel was a leaseholder >of the Foster ranch near Corona, the ranch being situated about Turns out this was actually William 'Mack' Brazel... John Price had managed to get a photograph from the Brazel family and it Brazel's name was noted on the back as Mack. <snip> >On March 1, 1908, Wayne Brazel shot and killed Pat Garrett, >famous for doing the same to Billy The Kid at Fort Sumner, New >Mexico. Brazel allegedly shot Garrett in self defense and was >acquitted. See Southern New Mexico Online's lengthy article at: >http://www.southernnewmexico.com/snm/garrett.html >Well, I just wonder if anybody knows if Wayne is a relative of >Mac Brazel of Roswell fame? Garrett and Wayne lived near Las >Cruces, New Mexico, certainly, a couple of hundred kilometers >from Mac's ranch near Corona, but due to its desert character >New Mexico was very thinly populated then, as it is now, and >Wayne and Mac both were ranchers. Yes, Wayne Brazel was a relative of Mack's. I had read one of the books about the Lincoln County War and it mentioned this incident but the author said no one knew what happened to Wayne Brazel after he was acquitted, though he thought Wayne had gone to live in South America. Well, I asked Bill Brazel and he said that after the trial Brazel was "forced" to leave the country, which in 1908, meant he got out of the New Mexico Territory (because New Mexico didn't become a state until 1912) and went to live in Arizona (which also became a state in 1912). Bill told me that he and his father had gone to Arizona to visit Wayne a couple of times. (I wondered why this university historian wasn't smart enough to contact any Brazel living in New Mexico to ask a question or two.) >Garrett's daughter, Elizabeth Garrett, a nationally known >soprano and a fine composer, lived in Roswell, by the way. See: >http://www.desertusa.com/mag00/jul/papr/gar.html Garrett built a house in New Mexico. He was a very good brick layer and the house still stands. I've been to it and took pictures of it, thinking of doing an article about Brazel (Wayne) and Garrett and the confusing story of how Brazel had killed Garrett in a fight over the number of sheep that Brazel owned. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? - From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 12:04:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:17:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 06:11:54 +0200 >Subject: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? >Source: San Francisco Chronicle >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2002/08/01/MN42887.DT L >Stig >*** >Cereal spin doctors >Crop circles: Precursors to a close encounter with ET or merely >catering to the public's appetite for 'occult metaphors'? >Rick DelVecchio, Chronicle Staff Writer >Thursday, August 1, 2002 >c2002 San Francisco Chronicle. <snip> >One reason: English wheat fields have tractor wheel paths that >offer covert access without leaving telltale footprints. >Another: The fields are thick, uniform and easily shaped. People >with simple tools can sneak in and create impressive formations >in no time. As a former survey party member whose career has included substantial amounts of measurement and engineering layout work, I would challenge Dr. Nickell and anyone else who likes to parrot that "in no time" claim to take any of the more complex circles and duplicate them in front of a camera, "in no time". This includes not only leaving no footprints, and the observed interweaving of the bent over but not broken stalks. "In no time" is the equivalent of calling every UFO sighting up to and including daylight discs in front of multiple witnesses, "Venus". Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Strange Lights & Figures In Ciudad Atlantida From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:16:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:30:04 -0400 Subject: Strange Lights & Figures In Ciudad Atlantida SOURCE: Diario "La Nueva Provincia" (Bahia Blanca) DATE: August 2, 2002 STRANGE LIGHTS, FIGURES ALLEGEDLY SEEN IN CD. ATLANTIDA The alleged appearance of strange floating figures and red spheres moving at high speed duirng the night and in the sand dune area leading toward the Arroyo Pareja municipal beach, facing Corrientes and Libertad streets, wove a mantle of mystery around residents of that section of the city. ================ Translation (C) 2002 IHU Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 More On Argentine Giant UFO From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:59:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:32:30 -0400 Subject: More On Argentine Giant UFO SOURCE: C.O.R. (Circulo Ovnil=F3gico Riocuartense) DATE: 30-7-2002 Policeman Sees Giant UFO **Was on Duty at the Time** Guillermo Arias, who provides services in the dependency of the town of Chaj=E1n, 60 km southeast of Rio Cuarto, was on routine patrol through rurla Chajan at 23:00 hours on Sunday, July 21, 2002, when he heard over the radio that his colleagues in arms over at Achiras were seeing lights in sectors of said community, and that they were heading toward Chaj=E1n along Nat'l Route 8, which links the cities of Rio Cuarto, in Cordoba with Villa Mercedes in the province of San Luis Arias. At the wheel of the police patrol van, he managed to see a formation of 7 lights in the distance and decided to drive 10 km along a rural dirt road. When he had covered said distance, he noticed, not without surprise, that the engine of his vehicle sputtered and died, causing the police car to strike the edge of a guard rail. Simultaneously, the lights on the van's dashboard began turning on and off randomly, the police radio went haywire and its dial displayed the random shifting of the frequencies (channel codes) while the cabin became filled with an acrid odor, as though of burnt wiring, and the interior lights and stop indicator, which were broken, began lighting on and off. Seized by fear, Arias leaped from the van and walked away a few meters down the road, losing his cellphone in the escape. The darkness was total, when suddenly, amid the [confusing] situation, an immense light emerged from a field adjacent to the road as a triangular object rose majestically into the air. Now, [the officer's] condition went from fear to abject terror as he saw what he described as a real "floating city" some 200 meters long with a long row of windows (perhaps as many as 100). Arias claims having seen something move behind them, describing the movement as "TV sets which make lines and shadows" (sic), which he defined as "non-human", and that many beams of light came out of the giant triangle, aimed at the ground. The event lasted 2 or 3 seconds, but Arias "it felt like an eternity to him." The object suddenly rose and sped away, vanishing behind the hills of a local field. Arias's statement indicates that while the object moved away, the entire sector was lit "as though it were daytime", since he could clearly make out farms, fields, barbed wire fences, etc. and that the afterglow lasted another 20 minutes. Recovering from his nervous condition, he returned to the vehicle and notified his comrades of the experience, receiving radio instruction that reinforcements were being set out. In the darkness, he heard the cellphone ring, and that is how he found it in the darkness: his wife was trying to find him and his fellows. He told her briefly about what had happened and sat down to wait for the expected assistance. Patrolman Barrios from Achiras was trying to keep him calm over the raido, while Sgt. Medina, who was the first to arrive on the scene, and Sgt. Cordoba were among the subofficers who reached the area to lend aid to their comrade in distress. Meanwhile, other police elements radioed the incident to their superiors at Regional Unit 9 at Rio Cuarto. After learning the details, these superiors issued specific directions. In this regard we add that today, Monday noon, the senior officers of said police unit reported to Chaj=E1n to order a medical exam for Sgt. Arias and a subsequent re-creation of the events, for which they returned to the scene. There was news coverage from Rio Cuarto Channel 13, LV-16 Radio Rio Cuarto and numerous FM stations of this city interviewd members of the C.O.R to learn further aspects of this spectacular incident. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 IHU Special thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte, COR.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Dreaming For Two From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg@attcanada.ca> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:10:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:34:35 -0400 Subject: Dreaming For Two Source: Canoe http://www.canoe.ca/LifewiseFamilymatters0207/31_dreams-ap.html Dreaming for two Pregnant women's dreams bring questions to the surface By SAMANTHA CRITCHELL, AP NEW YORK (AP) -- It makes sense that a woman eating for two and dressing for two also would dream for two. Expectant mothers, it seems, often have the same dreams at the same points in their pregnancy. This happens, according to the authors of "Dreaming for Two" (Dutton), because the women have similar questions and concerns, and are often without an outlet to express them. Society's rules say pregnancy should be a happy time and the mothers-to-be shouldn't have any doubts, says Sindy Greenberg, one of the book's three authors, but, in reality, many women are worried about changes in their identity and their bodies, and wonder if they'll be good mothers. That leaves women to stew about these issues in their sleep. Dreams are conduits. They come from the mouths of real women," Greenberg says. For their book, Greenberg and co-authors Elyse Kroll, a former magazine editor, and Hillary Grill, a psychotherapist, interviewed scores of pregnant women about their dreams. At first most of the expectant mothers were reticent but once they got talking about their dreams, it seemed as if a veil covering many other topics was lifted, says Greenberg. And while some pregnant women reported having happy dreams about their new lives with their babies, those were mostly daydreams, says Greenberg. The vivid nighttime dreams were about giving birth to aliens, ex-boyfriends and misplacing a baby in a busy store, she reports. It might seem as if pregnant women dream more often but they're usually just lighter sleepers and remember more of their dreams, according to the book. The more one's sleep is interrupted, the more likely one will awaken during a dream cycle, making it easier to remember the dream. Kroll was one of those moms-to-be who had a dream she couldn't ignore. She dreamt that she gave birth to an 18-year-old half- boy, half-camel. "I was incredibly disappointed that I had missed his whole childhood," she recalls. Kroll has since analyzed the dream and decided that it was a sign of the conflict she had within herself about being a working mother who might not be there for her child all the time. The fact that he was part-animal likely represented the unpredictability of a baby and his capability to destroy parts of her life. (Her now 3-year-old son was born "at 7 pounds, not 150," she happily adds.) "For every woman, becoming a mother is an identity shift," Greenberg adds. In fact, "identity" was only supposed to be the first chapter of the book but it ended up being the focus of the whole thing. The most common dream among the interviewees was the "I-can't- find-the-baby dream." Greenberg says the majority of women interpreted that dream as a symbol of the simultaneous joy and apprehension about motherhood. When expectant mothers thought mostly of their past, it was a way for them to say goodbye to their old, more independent life, according to the book, and if they dreamed about dead relatives, it was a way to seek approval to enter the next phase of their lives. Dreaming about a child that resembles an alien allows a mother- to-be to wonder what her child will be like beyond the daytime visions of a perfect baby, the authors say. Another issue is dependency, says Greenberg. Many women, even if they've been with their partner for years, have maintained at least an air of independence but they feel that will end the moment the baby will be born. The baby will be dependent on the mother, and the mother in turn will be more dependent on her partner and other caregivers. That issue showed up in dreams about caring for other people's children, partners dying, and the mother being chased by someone in disguise. The above dreams seem to occur mostly during the first and second trimesters, while the third trimester is often dominated by dreams about labor and delivery -- probably because the bulging belly begins to consume a woman's thoughts, says Greenberg. Concerns about labor and the health of the baby usually are easier to work through, Grill explains, because they are more thoroughly addressed by doctors who can explain the delivery process and about prenatal tests, and the issues are more often discussed in public. "The stumbling blocks are the identity issues because you can't talk about them. But you need to process (these issues) and have someone validate them," Grill says. But, she cautions, an expectant mother needs to be careful whom she brings her concerns to. If her partner is open-minded and a good listener, she should start there, Grill advises, but if he is likely to dismiss it, then turn to a friend who is understanding, not judgmental. If the woman has a doctor who takes time to discuss emotional health besides physical health, that's another option. Greenberg, Grill and Kroll didn't contact the interviewees after their babies were born to find out if all the dreams ended. But, says Greenberg, the goal was to help relieve anxiety during pregnancy -- and acknowledging the dreams was the first step.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Kennedy UFO Letter Sells on eBay - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 18:57:49 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:37:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Kennedy UFO Letter Sells on eBay - Hall >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 07:00:06 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Kennedy UFO Letter Sells on eBay >An original letter signed by former Senator Robert Kennedy has >just sold on the eBay auction site. The letter sent to a Mrs. >Anne Epple of New York City,and was written to address the UFO >subject. The letter was dated September 10, 1966, and sold for >$220.28. >The Epple letter becomes the second known letter written by >Robert Kennedy on the UFO subject. <snip> >The newly discovered letter is similar in content and style to >another letter received on May 9, 1968 that Senator Kennedy sent >to Gray Barker. At the time Barker was the publisher of Saucer >News. In the Gray letter Senator Kennedy stated that he stated >his interest in the UFO phenomena. He stated, "I am a card >carrying member of the Amalgamated Flying Saucers Association. >Therefore, like many other people in our country I am interested >in the phenomenon of flying saucers." >Scans of both documents can be viewed at: >www.presidentialufo.com/kennedy_letter.htm >The Presidents UFO Story >www.presidentialufo.com Grant, There are other Kennedy letters and additional letters from Members of Congress in various collections, including mine. I'm willing to bet the Gray Barker letter is a hoax, which of course was one of his specialties. Robert Kennedy support Gabriel Green? Fat chance! - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 19:24:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:35:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:22:18 -0500 >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:10:09 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:33:55 -0500 >>>Yes, we are endlessly told that by investigators from the >>>Brazilian Navy. Nowhere in the official records of the case - >>>which exist in English translation and have been published in >>>the UFO literature - is there a single statement to the >>>contrary. >>Nor anywhere is there a single mention of the name of a single >>individual who saw the alleged UFO other than Barauna and his >>three friends (and one of them is only named as a witness and >>gives no statement). There is only one report by a Brazilian >>naval official in the literature, and although it refers to >>other witnesses, there is no indication that the investigator >>has spoken to them; he is simply relaying what he was told. >As the Brazilian Navy repeatedly has said, and as John Rimmer >has repeatedly ignored, there were numerous witnesses, in two >groups. Not a single statement to the contrary exists, and >despite repeated challenges to produce one, John has yet to do >so. Because he can't. >Meantime, I am ending participation in this discussion and plan >not even to read further posts on this thread, lest I be tempted >to respond to them, even knowing that you are taking us nowhere >except to endless recycling of nothing arguments. Couldn't resist a peek, could you, Jerry? No, sorry, although you have repeatedly made this claim, the Brazilian navy hasn't. I just ask people to read the relevant documents, which are all on the CUFOS website. See what they really say, not what Jerry would like them to say, and form their own conclusion. They do not represent a full investigation of the Trindade incident. The officer who compiled the report spoke to only one person who was on board the ship at the time apart from Barauna - the captain, who did not witness the incident. Jerry consistently fails to address these simple facts, and revealingly always snips them from my mailings when he replies to them. Instead he retreats to a smokescreen, demanding that I produce Brazilian naval reports about people who saw nothing! If I could think of a better phrase I would use it, but - pause for effect, roll of drums - this tells us more about Jerry than it does about the Traindade case. >From thousands of miles and more than four decades away, John >can only flail away with guesswork, speculation, and innuendo. My ever-trusty Readers' Digest World Atlas tells me that Canby, Minnesota is 4750 miles from Trindade Island, whilst London, England is a mere 4270 miles away from that wave-lashed islet. I don't know what this means, any more than Jerry does, but I thought it was vaguely interesting. >I suppose some of you out there are trying to decide whether >to laugh or cry. I urge the former. Always the better option, especially when reading Jerry's increasingly desperate postings. I can't say this will be my last response on this matter, but it'll have to be something worthwhile to tempt me. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:39:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch >From: Adam Lowe <nicap@blueyonder.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:23:24 +0100 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:25:32 -0700 >>Subject: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>A few of you must have UFO related websites up, this question is >>addressed to you especially. <snip> >>For the 33 days preceding 04 July 2002, I averaged 73.7 visits >>per day. Suddenly, and starting off with a bang (183 hits on the >>5rth of July, my hit counts nearly doubled. At first I thought >>it was due to the long weekend etc., but it hasn't let up. >>For the 30 days now logged starting with 5JLY02 I am averaging >>124.9 hits per diem, a good 70% higher than the previous month. >>My question is whether this is unique to my website, some new >>link or listing in the search engines say, or whether the same >>thing is happening to UFO sites in general. ><snip> >The NICAP site usually gets around 750 hits a week, but the week >of 8th -14th of July it went up to 836 and for the week of 22nd - >28th it went up to 968. The last 3 days of July had 453 so the >traffic did pick up for us last month as well. Hello Adam: Much appreciated! I take it then that the NICAP site had a sustained and sudden increase like mine did, and that it happened at the same time! Since each of our sites links to the other, there might be some mutual influence, but not nearly enough to explain a 50% or 70% "step-function" in visit counts. If this is the case, the question is whether something in the media, or perhaps some event, has spurred an increase of interest in UFO studies (as opposed to simple entertainment) .. something that would explain an abrupt and sustained rise in visits. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hayes From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:10:56 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 15:58:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hayes >From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:25:32 -0700 >Subject: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? <snip> >For the 30 days now logged starting with 5JLY02 I am >averaging 124.9 hits per diem, a good 70% higher than the >previous month. >My question is whether this is unique to my website, some >hot link or listing in the search engines say, or whether >the same thing is happening to UFO sites in general. <snip> >Some feedback from other UFO webmasters might give me a >good clue, much appreciated in advance. If your counts are >just about normal for the same period, I would like to know >that too. Hi Larry, People seem to enter my site at various pages, though the UFO Roundup index page usually has the highest number of visitors. The most recent **weekly** figures are as follows: June 30th - July 6th ==================== Index page - 1081 Contents - 1441 Filer - 769 Roundup - 2405 July 7th - 13th =============== Index page - 1138 Contents - 1459 Filer - 927 Roundup - 2825 July 14th - 20th ================ Index page - 1328 Contents - 1498 Filer - 887 Roundup - 2507 July 21st - 27th ================ Index page - 8405 Contents - 1546 Filer - 910 Roundup - 2987 July 28th - Aug 2nd (incomplete) ================================ Index page - 9948 Contents - 1390 Filer - 877 Roundup - 2607 At first I thought it might be something to do with the F-16 reports but the number of hits on the index page are not carried through to the Contents page which is the only page they can get to from there. I can only assume there are some people out there being a bit silly....or my photograph scares them off ;-) Occasionally UFO Roundup is included on the WebTV startup page which tends to send the hits haywire but those visitors follow through to other pages, while a link from the Art Bell web site a few years ago used up my daily bandwidth allowance in 2 hours! Fortunately the hosting company at the time turned a deliberate blind eye to the hits for the whole week. Best wishes, John Hayes webmaster@ufoinfo.com UFOINFO:- http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:35:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 16:00:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:42 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:04:56 -0500 >>>>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>>>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:20:31 EDT >>>>>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>Another poster, Jean van Gemert, took note of your curious >>assertion that the brilliantly glowing, hovering object Dale >>Spaur and Barney Neff saw at the initation of the Portage >>County, Ohio, episode* was only Venus. >>Now, if you want to believe that misperception of this radical >>magnitude occurs, fine. But you can't at the same time get your >>nose out of joint when I point out the obvious: that you >>routinely reject as inaccurate eyewitness testimony in >>extraordinary, high-strangeness UFO cases. >You are refusing to admit that a misperception of what you >call, This radical magnitude occurs". We have more than 50 >years of IFOs to disprove this. We do? According to whom? Overwhelmingly, IFOs are not radically misperceived, but are identifable from witness testimony alone. It is the UFO reports that are much, much harder to solve, as just about everybody who's looked at them with some degree of honesty and objectivity has had to agree. When Blue Book was doing real investigations, the unknowns were something like 25%. When the investigation got shabby and superficial, the percentage of alleged IFOs rose fantastically. Likewise, Condon's field investigators were repeatedly puzzled by what they came across, and they failed to explain a significant number of cases -- even higher than the 25% of BB's salad days. No one argues that "radical misperception" does not happen on occasion. It is, however, a leap of faith, unfounded in anything that can be demonstrated empirically, that it occurs as routinely as you pelicanists want us -- and yourselves -- to believe. Given how loosely and conveniently you apply pelican logic, one can only conclude that you've fixed it so that no new or novel phenomenon will ever fly out of your brain. Witness testimony is accurate if it can be used to identify a prosaic stimulus for a sighting, radically in error if it attests to anything else. Way to go, Bob. Jerry Clark "The mind likes a strange idea as little as the body likes a strange protein and resists it with similar energy.... If we watch ourselves honestly, we shall often find that we have begun to argue against a new idea even before it has been completely stated." -- Wilfred Batten Lewis Trotter, English surgeon (1872- 1939)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Filer's Files #31 - 2002 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 17:28:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 17:28:45 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #31 - 2002 Source: UFOINFO http://www.ufoinfo.com/filer/2002/ff0231.shtml Filer's Files #31-2002 July 31, 2002 MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern George Filer: Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster Chuck Warren: http://www.filersfiles.com UFOs BUZZ US EAST COAST: New Jersey UFO maneuvers, Pennsylvania lights, Maryland UFOs captured on video, F-16s launched to protect Washington D.C., New York pilot sees six lights, Maryland jets chase UFO? Virginia base ball size lights, Wisconsin six lights, Missouri pilot spots UFO, California flying triangle, Canadian UFOs, Argentina's mutilations continue, 394 and counting, Russian UFO has search lights and Ukraine reports six blinking lights. UFOs with six lights seen around the world. NEW JERSEY UFO MANEUVERS PARAMUS --Three unknown objects maneuver, pulse, then fade out on a clear on July 13, 2002, night over northern New Jersey. At 11:10 PM, two bright lights, which appeared to be stars, were seen moving slowly in formation on a northeast heading. The atmospheric conditions were clear with visibility unlimited. The two objects appeared high up, and were very bright. Within moments of the sighting, a third, less brilliant object, appeared from the northwest sky behind the first two objects, and flew between them. It also appeared to be a star. This third object then changed direction to the north and faded completely. The objects flying in formation then faded completely, and could not be seen. Several moments later one of these a brilliant white light objects pulsed brightly, then faded. Moments later the third object pulsed brightly, then faded as it continued toward the north. None of the objects was seen again, though the first two must have been directly overhead. Observers include a police officer and two security officers. One observer holds a private pilot license all concur that the sighting was not that of a conventional aircraft. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC PENNSYLVANIA LIGHTS FORD CITY -- At 9:40 PM, three steady red lights were observed at treetop level on July 20, 2002. My wife and I, along with my mother-in-law, brother-in-law, and sister-in-law observed three non-blinking red lights in a line, two on the left closer than the third. The object was slow moving, appearing and disappearing behind the treeline moving from right to left in the southwest sky. There are significant hills 1000 to 1200 feet in our township. While moving, the lights maintained formation appearing to be on one object about two miles away. While on the phone with local law enforcement, two single engine aircraft were observed flying very high, and their engines could be heard clearly. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC MARYLAND UFOs OVER BWI AIRPORT VIDEO TAPED BALTIMORE -- Bill Bean writes, "I met with Virginia MUFON investigator Alexander Zikas and Bill at the observation lot at Baltimore/Washington International Airport on June 22, 2002. I set two camcorders up and began taping, one camera northeast and the other one to the south. We were there approximately 30 minutes when something caught the eye of Mr. Zikas. It was in the northeastern sky and it started forming a shape right before our eyes. It looked like an Alien Being and we began shooting photos and I was taping this as well. After review of the tape and photos, several non-conventional aircraft were captured. Mr. Zikas captured a Silver reflective object and I also captured the same object or a similar one. In my photo I noticed a dark dome on the object. Visit my website and may GOD bless us all." These photos can be viewed at http://www.ufoman104.com. Thanks to Bill Bean Editor's Note: Bill goes out and hunts UFOs, and 'surprise' he finds them. I encourage you to find a good lookout point where you can see a large area of the sky. Get your cameras ready before you go and keep them handy as you drive. Many are reporting they see UFOs shortly after they leave their home and before they get ready at their viewing site. UFOs are being sighted throughout the area. NEW YORK SIX FIERY LIGHTS START EAST COAST FLAP SHIRLEY, LONG ISLAND -- A flight instructor at Brookhaven Airport reports sighting six fiery lights flying formation of the southern coast of Long Island. The 21 year old pilot reports, "I was flying an airplane in the vicinity of Shirley, at about 9:30 PM on July 25, 2002, and was taking off for a night flight with a student, when I looked and suddenly there were six bright yellow lights about 8 miles off-shore Smith Point Park, Long Island, directly south of TWA Flight 800 crash. These lights were in a line formation, with 2 closer on the left and the other 4 on the right staggered. I contacted other pilots on the UNICOM frequency, 122.80 MHz, and it was confirmed. One pilot in particular was one of my coworker instructors in another company aircraft. After I started heading northeast bound on course to Rhode Island, I saw the lights disappear IN SEQUENTIAL ORDER from left to right, 6-5...then 4-3-2-1. I contacted the local air traffic controller to see if it could be confirmed on radar. They said yes, and that they did not know at first what it was either, but that it was now off the radar screen and they suspected it was military activity. Now, I am very aware that the area I am describing is known for military firings and that it is the likely answer, but what I do not understand is how these objects were able to hover. Because it was a near full moon, a harvest moon nonetheless, I could clearly tell that they were not boats, and they did not have aircraft lighting. Also, there were no boats in the area that they, if they were some kind of flare, could have been launched from. And they dimmed out in sequence almost perfectly. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WASHINGTON DC, NUFORC, FOX, CNN, WTOP, REPORT UFOs Peter Davenport at the National Reporting Center reports, "We received numerous reports thatone or more red/orange changing to blue ovals were seen over Andrews Air Force Base on July 26, 2002." Their existence was first indicated on radio station WTOP because several listeners called in confirming the sighting. NORAD radar spotted a sphere and fighters were scrambled, but the they had disappeared. The 113th Air Wing keeps pilots and armed jets on 24-hour alert at Andrews to respond to incidents as part of an air defense system. Fox and MSNBC reported that "Renny Rogers of Waldorf claims, " Just before two in the morning, he saw a large blue ball of light streaking across the sky. But it was the military jets that really startled him. The jets were right on its tail." TRANSCRIPT OF EVENING FOX NEWS July 26, 2002, follows: SHEPARD SMITH: The nighttime skies over the nation's capital alive with blue and orange lights streaking across the sky, so say a lot of panicked people who called in to a radio station, no joke here. American fighter jets in hot pursuit... NORAD confirmed to FOX News that two F-16s did scramble, but found nothing! A mystery in the sky above Andrews Air Force Base... that's the one the President uses. Fox reports now from Brian Wilson live in our D.C. newsroom. Brian? BRIAN WILSON: Fair to say, Shepard. A lot more questions than answers at this point, but something strange was going on in the Maryland night sky. Here is what we know; 1:00 a.m. the folks at NORAD saw something they couldn't identify in Maryland airspace, not far from the nation's capitol. The track it was taking caused them some concern so they scrambled two DC Air National Guard jets to check things out. Now, DC Air National Guard confirms that two F-16s from the 113th Wing were vectored to intercept whatever it was that NORAD was worried about. However, when the pilots got where they were supposed to be, they said they didn't see anything when they arrived on the scene. Now the folks at NORAD would not provide details about the exact location, direction or speed of the object they were tracking. Now independently, a number of folks who live in Waldorf, Maryland, which is not far from Andrews Air Force Base and not far from the nation's capitol, called local radio station WTOP to say that about the same time, they witnessed a fast moving, bright blue light in the sky. They go on to claim that the light was being chased by military jets. One witness tells the radio station that the jets were right on its tail. Quote: "as the thing would move, a jet was right behind it." end of quote. An investigation is underway. But National Guard spokesman Captain Sheldon Smith says, and this is another quote, "We don't have any information about funny lights. "By the way, this just happens to be the 50th anniversary of a series of still-unexplained sightings over the nation's capitol, a story that made banner-headline news in 1952. Shepard, we'll continue to watch for this. SHEPARD SMITH: And now it can be told. Brian Wilson, live in Washington. Thanks to Kenny Young. MARYLAND COUPLE HEAR LOUD JETS WALDORF -- A couple were awakened from dead sleep by a very loud airplane noises that sounded way too close or loud. The couple report, "We thought we were about to be attacked because of 9- 11, or we were at war. It was so loud, but then it went away like it was never there and I went back to sleep. I had forgotten all about it until I saw the10 PM news on Fox 5 and there was a UFO sighting in Waldorf, where we live! They mentioned two F-16 fighter jets being deployed. We must have heard the jets going over our house, or maybe the UFO. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC VIRGINIA MEN SEE BASEBALL SIZE LIGHTS ARLINGTON -- Two witnesses report, "My son and I were in the back yard of our house about 1:15 AM this morning because we had gone outside to get our cat, who was on a ledge outside the second floor window." We were both looking up at the side of the house wondering how long we would have to wait for her to come down, when two circular white lights flew over the house, going more or less west to east or northeast. They were about the size of a baseball held at arm's length. We both saw it and about two minutes later they came back again, from west to east/northeast. This time they both stopped -- don't know how far away -- they seemed close, although the spheres were small? They both stopped for a second, then one of the objects "flew" away at a right angle to its previous path of flight, not up in the sky, but back to the northwest at what seemed to be the same altitude as before. The other object remained motionless for five seconds maybe, then continued northeast on pretty much its original direction. They were definitely two different objects that were flying in tandem at first, then split up. We ran out to the front yard with the video camera, but didn't see anything. They made no noise. If they weren't close they must have been huge. Similar sightings were seen in Waldorf, Maryland about ten miles from us. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC EDITOR'S NOTE: UFOs were seen from New York to Washington D.C. by multiple witnesses. NORAD was apparently tracking the UFOs on radar and launched two F-16 fighters to intercept, but the fighters were unable to locate the UFOs. The incident appears to be a repeat of the 1952, Washington DC over flights. FIFTY YEARS AGO LAST WEEKEND: FAA controllers had multiple UFOs on their radars and when these were reported to the Air Force, F-94 interceptors were launched to chase the intruders. Radar Operator Howard Conklin says, "The radar operators knew the UFOs location and track so when they got near, the operators went outside to see the UFO visually as well." The Air Force decided to deny the reports and claimed they were false radar returns caused by temperature inversions. Rumors persist that there was an unannounced loss of one F-94, but this report has never been confirmed. Conklin also revealed the UFOs came back the next night and were tracked sweeping across the Capital, but this time the Air Force was not informed. Once again the UFOs were defeated not by technology, but by obscuration and denial. This week's radar track did not look like meteors, satellites, or false radar returns or NORAD would not have launched fighters. Many witnesses for weeks have reported UFOs in the area. NORAD stated that the UFO may have been a small plane that disappeared from radar by landing at a small airfield. Based on the New York sighting earlier in the evening, it is likely that the UFOs were spotted on radar for an extended period and moved toward the Washington DC restricted area. Space Command denies other forms of contact. F-16 pilots at Andrews are on 24 hour alert status. While I was in alert status our requirement was that once we received the order to launch we had to be airborne in a maximum of ten minutes. The pilots would need to be ready near their fueled and armed aircraft. Engine start and taxi to the end of the runway takes a few minutes. It appears the response time was good. It is not surprising that the UFOs could not be tracked. They are exceptionally fast and maneuverable and employ a series of tactics to trick the pilots and radar. I would be happy to provide an intelligence briefing including video to the ANG to help them successfully track the UFOs. CALIFORNIA UFO ABOVE AIR BASE THE SAME NIGHT EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE -- On July 26, 2002, at 3:43 AM, an extremely bright light was seen in sky about 1,000 feet above the base. The light emanated steadily and moved slowly north for about two to three minutes and was followed by two aircraft. The light suddenly blinked out, very close to one of the aircraft. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ILLINOIS CROP CIRCLE NAPERVILLE -- Susan Steven's of the Daily Herald Staff Writer reports a crop circle was found on July 18, 2002, next to apartment buildings in a soybean field in a suburb of Chicago. The Naperville farmer called mysterious crop circle 'a malicious prank.' When he stepped out of his truck, the first thing Ed Corrigan noticed was the aroma coming off the Naperville soybean field he came to inspect for bugs and weeds. It smelled shorn, like a freshly cut lawn. Then Corrigan saw the wide paths of broken plants circling out across the field in an unrecognizable, but precise pattern. Corrigan quickly called farmer Steve Berning to describe the damage. A week later, neither man is any closer to finding out who, or what, created the crop circle. "Have you ever heard of anything so crazy?" Berning asked. "Unbelievable." From the air, you can see a series of broken, concentric rings cut into the field off Diehl Road. It loosely resembles other crop circles found in England, where complex designs are found cut into farm fields, often by people who claim the work as artistic achievement. But some crop circle investigators have postulated other causes, including magnetic fields, wind storms and UFO landings. The Naperville crop circle appeared only two weeks before the release of a big budget feature film on the phenomenon -- a fact that has not gone unnoticed. In the thriller "Signs," Mel Gibson plays a farmer who discovers strange circles on his land. In Wiltshire, England, a crop circle that mimics the design in the movie's trailer already has appeared in a field, with the addition of Mickey Mouse ears -- a nod to Disney, which is distributing the film. Whether the Naperville crop circle is a similar prank is anyone's guess. William Leone, an investigator with the Mutual UFO Network, said only soil analysis can determine whether the circle was created by humans or some other phenomenon. When he investigated a series of 11 circles in a field of cattails near Argonne National Laboratory in Lemont in 1994, Leone said he found genetic differences in the plants inside and outside the circles, which all measured 84 feet in diameter. "We can't say for certain these circles were laid out by UFOs," Leone said. "Some people link it to UFOs, some don't. I don't know what the explanation for them are. There are so many different theories." Naperville police can't recall any other crop circles, although the city has very little farmland left. There were no tracks. "There's some damage, which upsets me," Berning said. "But I'm more curious than anything. Farmer says 10% of field damaged Thanks to the Daily Herald, 6/18/02 Dailyherald.com Editor's Note: Barbara Walters will be interviewing Colin Andrews on 20/20 TV Show on Friday evening, August 2, 2002. I hope he will give technical data to prove authenticity of most Crop Circles. WISCONSIN SIX LIGHTS FLASH OVER UFO DAZE FESTIVAL DUNDEE -- Casey Holt writes, "UFOs made appearances at the UFO Daze Festival to more than 150 witnesses on July 20, 2002, I was there and saw the whole thing and have the lights on video tape. For some reason I felt I should go from here in Minneapolis. The first 6 lights were impressive right away as I saw them come over the Kettle Moraine State Forest like orange plasma balls or ships the color of a campfire. I wondered if it could have been some kind of flares. The movement was more like they were under some power and being guided though. Then some flashed rapidly and really bright like a strobe light and finally went out or dropped too low to see. I called these 6 lights the "Plasma Ships." Then a few minutes later we noticed a bright greenish white light coming rapidly from the south. As it got closer you could see three separate lights that were together. Green on top, white on the bottom and dull red in the middle that was bobbing back and forth between the other two. I call these kind the "Force Connecting Ships" because they act like they are connected by a force field. I zoomed in my camera and could see the center red light was almost like it was attached to the other two with a rubber band and moving like in a programmed pattern. The way they moved together was really neat. Unfortunately my camera wasn't recording when I thought it was then so I didn't get that on tape. I got a copy from someone else though so you can see it pretty good from their video. As they flew almost right overhead, I knew it must be some kind of weird technology that was doing this. The rain at the time made it less than optimal for the 100 or so viewers their but it was still nice to see these things as they seemed to put on a show for us. What they were I don't know but they were quite something for sure. This Festival has been held for twelve years and UFOs are frequently sighted. Two videos are available. Thanks to Casey Holt and UFO Wisconsin. http://www.ufowisconsin.com/bensons/ufodaze2002_sightings.html MISSOURI FREIGHT PILOT SEES RAPIDLY MOVING OVAL KANSAS CITY -- I am an air freight pilot that flies smaller, twin-engined aircraft building experience to fly for the major airlines. I saw something strange on my way out of Kansas City International Airport on July 2, 2002. I have always been a skeptic and thought UFO's were bogus, until now. I saw a solid oval, NO blinking lights, or colored lights, moving rapidly across the sky from east to west. I've seen thousands of satellites before and I know for sure this was NOT a satellite. Why? Because this object was about the size of a dime moving across my windscreen. I initially saw it on climb-out as it traveled from directly overhead to slightly above the horizon (about 1 thumbs width with your arm stretched outward) before I lost it in the haze. The object traveled this total distance in less than 3 minutes time. My estimate 250 to 300 miles. It had a soft, medium, white silhouette light which illuminated the entire object. I was climbing out of 4500 feet at the time, and my guess was that the object was in excess of 50,000 feet. I inquired with ATC, to see if I had any potential conflicting traffic, he panned his radar out to include all altitudes, and then he said nothing was on his scope except for "a few low altitude targets that were in bound to K. C. International." The ATC controller and I both laughed a bit over the frequency about it and then nothing was said. It has been at the front of my mind, each day, since I saw the object. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC CALIFORNIA FLYING TRIANGLE WITH TWENTY LIGHTS HAWTHORNE CITY -- A large black flying triangle was sighted on July 22, 2002, traveling along the California coast line at around 10:15 PM. The following night the witness stated, "I walked out unto my patio at 10:21 PM, and saw a string of lights, ran inside my house, grabbed my camcorder, recorded this spectacle for a few seconds. There were about twenty lights all flashing a cherry red color and all of them were flashing heading southeast. They started off in a triangular pattern and started forming a crescent shape. Some objects were further away and not part of the configuration. I was with two friends and we were outside talking. Some red lights approaching from the north (going south) caught our attention. We saw a very huge boomerang or V shaped object, with a bright white light at the "nose," and red blinking lights around its perimeter (maybe four or five on either side of the white light). We were all pretty impressed with its massive size and we kept the object in sight as it traveled along the coastline. We kept sight of it until it was too far away to see. It was totally silent and seemed to glide slowly across the sky. I am totally shocked it did not make the news since it flew right over the LAX flight path. PALOS VERDES -- A flying triangle was reported coming from the Redondo Beach direction along the coast moving slowly just before 11:00 PM on Tuesday. Thanks, Bill Hamilton Executive Director Skywatch International, Inc. Website: http://www.skywatch-research.org CANADA SIGHTINGS CONTINUE WITH CIGAR AND LIGHTS HUNTSVILLE, ONTARIO -- Around 1:30 AM, I was at the Cottage Restaurant on July 1, 2002. My group was all out on the patio having a drink, when I looked up to see a shooting star or something traveling at the same speed, but it was two round orange objects heading west. The circles were almost flying formation but then split up and headed upwards in separate directions through the clouds. TERRACE BRITISH COLUMBIA -- Brian Vike reports that a 17 year old science oriented youth called to say, "Although, I always believed there had to be other life out there, I was never truly convinced until two nights ago, when I saw one of the most unbelievable life changing things of my life." It was 12:25 AM, on July 27, 2002, when I saw a moving light in the southwest sky fly towards Prince Rupert at high elevation. As the object began moving further east and higher up but closer I began to realize it was cigar or pancake shaped with a flickering bright light moving around the side. I still wasn't completely convinced until I noticed how eerily alien its maneuvers were. This was not human technology, and was unlike anything I had ever seen before. Two minutes later, it moved from a horizontal position to a diagonal position, but continued to move slowly with a light still running up the side. I was walking home, but the last minute I saw it, it began moving northwest losing altitude and trees obstructed my view. Thanks to Brian Vike (Yogi) Independent UFO Field Investigator/Researcher, HBCC UFO Research Box 1091 Houston, B.C. ARGENTINA MUTILATIONS AND SIGHTINGS CONTINUE BUENOS AIRES PROVINCE -- The total carcass count to date now stands at 394 according to Christian Quintero, who cautions that many ranchers have stopped reporting new cases, and the tally may in fact exceed four hundred. Most of the cases are in Buenos Aires with 140. La Pampa has 77, Cordoba Province has 27. The bulk of the cases are within 300 miles of Buenos Aires. Thanks to Argentina's Proyecto Condor, the numbers are based on information supplied by C.O.R. SAN JOS=C9 -- A couple that was driving home last night at around 21:00 hours witnessed a large, sky-blue light moving over the lagoon, changing color and size as it did so. Its color was red and it gave off flashes. Minutes later a local resident contacted EL FUERTE [to say that she had seen] the light descend and lose itself behind the treeline. An hour later, at 22:30, two other witnesses saw the same phenomenon. PARISH -- The El Yunque ranch foreman informed EL TIEMPO, he found a bovine presenting signs of mutilation. The case, according to the rural worker's description, is similar to others detected in the area and other parts of the country. In this specific case, the animal showed mutilations in the rectal area, tongue, eyes and jaw. Four mutilated cows were found twelve kilometers southwest of Bartolome de las Casas, having the same characteristics as earlier cases. Thanks to Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology for the Translation (C) 2002. Special thanks to Alicia Rossi. RUSSIA UFO HAS SEARCH LIGHTS AND PULSATING UFO VIDEO PERM -- Nikolay Subbotin, Director of the Russian UFO Research Station (RUFORS) reports that on July 23, 2002, the "hunting season for UFOs is opened in Perm." After the famous sighting in April, when classic silver saucer-shaped UFO was observed over the Ural region city. On June 29, 2002, around 12:10 AM an UFO was videotaped from the 7th floor of the multi-stored apartment building. Mr. Maksim, who shot the video-footage, said his first impression was "...this might be bright star." But soon he noticed it was moving too fast, so he started shooting. On July 2, 2002, a UFO was observed further south of the original point of observation. It was too fast moving for the star or satellite, and was very bright, pulsating ovoid light. The video shows the moving object pulsating as it moved, making new jerks with every new flash. On July 17, 2002, around 12:30 AM, over the Kama River, several witnesses observed a bright light and flashes inside the low clouds, slowly moving over the river. Suddenly, two beams, like from searchlights, descended and started scanning the river and nearby houses. This stunning sighting lasted for two minutes. Then the beams vanished, light started going away, suddenly it squeezed into little dot and disappeared, the impression was that the object, emitting light, suddenly zoomed up. Thanks to RUFORS - nikolay.subbotin@psu.ru, http://ufo.psu.ru , Translated by Anton Anfalov, Director of Ukrainian UFOlogical Association (UKUFAS) UKRAINE NEWS FLASH OF UFOs OVER CRIMEA SIMFEROPOL'-- Anton A. Anfalov reports, that he has received a sighting over Simferopol', the capital of Crimea Autonomous Republic. On July 15, 2002, I got an exited telephone call from my friend Viktor Krupin a former sergeant of the Special KGB, who informed that he, "Just witnessed a UFO at 21.36 hours from his flat, there was bright flash, red in color, to the northwest." He then noticed a shining red object, moving horizontally in zigzag trajectory that disappeared behind the trees after ten seconds. His son saw a UFO in November of 2001, but he did not take this seriously until he got his own sighting. CRIMEA -- Victor Zdorov was walking his dog near the old center of Simferopol on July 24, 2002, at about 9 PM, when he noticed five to six white lights in line in the northeastern sky. At first, he thought they were planes, but there was no sound and the number and configuration of lights was different from any aircraft. He thought, it might be landing lights for approach to Simferopol, but airport is too far away. While approaching, the lights started blinking periodically not like the constant blinking of commercial aircraft. Six flashes were in an interval of every second. The shape of the object was not discernible but the lights indicated it was a disk-shaped object with white lights on its rim. SEA OF AZOV -- On Friday, July 26, 2002, at about 10:50 PM, a bright object looking like a white star, brighter than Sirius, was observed over the Crimean peninsula flying northeast to the Sea of Azov. It could be identified as ordinary satellite, but the witness persistently states that it was moving twice as fast as any satellite. Bright white flashes and moving star-like objects were observed almost nightly after 2100 hours on July 24, 25, 26, 27, over the Sea of Azov. There are numerous rumors about an underwater UFO base in the Sea of Azov, and the Black Sea. These include observations of the objects diving into the water. "I am myself the witness of more than ten UFOs during the last five years." Thanks to Anton Anfalov, Research Specialist for MUFON in Ukraine, Coordinator of Ukrainian UFOlogical Association (UKUFAS) an@crimea.com UFO activity over the Crimea has intensified, since 1987. EDITOR's NOTE: UFOs with six lights are being reported as activity increases. NASA's SPACE ENCOUNTERS Jeff Challender has released the new video "What Is the Truth?". The second video examining NASA and its space encounters with 102 anomalous objects. These events were culled from 1400+ hours raw footage of ten live Shuttle flight broadcasts between Oct. 2000 and April 2002. VHS $25. Send orders to: Jeff Challender 2768 Mendel Way Sacramento, CA 95833-2011 WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George Filer http//www.filersfiles.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Saskatchewan Crop Circle Perspective From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 22:30:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 17:33:37 -0400 Subject: Saskatchewan Crop Circle Perspective Source: Regina Leader-Post via Canadian Press & canada.com http://www.canada.com/news/story.asp?id=3D{20832255-85AD-446A-AA0E-8ABEA694F= CFE} Stig *** Whether hoax or genuine phenomenon, Saskatchewan no stranger to crop circles Canadian Press Thursday, August 01, 2002 ** REGINA (CP) - Coming soon, to a field near you - circles of flattened grains that are dismissed as a hoax by some and studied fervently by others. With the impending release of the Mel Gibson thriller Signs, crop-circle aficionados throughout Saskatchewan are all aflutter over the annual phenomenon. They talk about how one summer, a farmer spotted a formation on his field on a reserve near Punnichy. The next year, a circle turned up on a Hutterite colony in a field of durum wheat. Last year, the Midale area alone had seven reports. Paul Anderson, the Vancouver co-ordinator of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, said in 2001, Canada had 21 reports of formations, with half of those coming from Saskatchewan. He expects similar results this year. "We're waiting for Saskatchewan," said Anderson, who started his non-profit organization in 1995 and files reports on the CCRN Web site. "It's usually the last half of August and September, that just seems to be the trend. Most of them tend to be found when the farmers are actually out combining." John Erickson, a pilot from Estevan who photographs crop circles, said he is looking forward to seeing the new movie, which stars Gibson as a man who discovers crop circles on his Pennsylvania farm. "I'd like to see the ideas these filmmakers have gotten," Erickson said. "It should be interesting. "All I care about is that people understand it's not people tramping them down with boards and rollers. I think we should understand that there's something going on around here that we don't know about." Anderson, who works as a graphic designer, puts the circles into three categories: those that are man-made; those created by unusual weather; and those that are unknown. He said he leans away from the UFO explanation that others embrace, since tests on circles in the "unknown" category have shown that there are changes in soil composition and physical changes to the plant itself, such as the nodes on the stalks being swollen or blown open. Anderson said he'll probably go see Signs, but he doesn't hold out much hope for an accurate portrayal of the crop- circle phenomenon. "The whole circumstance and story that surrounds it, it's all Hollywood." (Regina Leader-Post) ** =A9 Copyright 2002 The Canadian Press Copyright =A9 2002 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest Global Communications Corp. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:10:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 17:47:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 19:24:17 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:22:18 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:10:09 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>>>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>>>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:33:55 -0500 John, >No, sorry, although you have repeatedly made this claim, the >Brazilian navy hasn't. I just ask people to read the relevant >documents, which are all on the CUFOS website. See what they >really say, not what Jerry would like them to say, and form >their own conclusion. I encourage them to do the same, and also to read the excellent account in Coral Lorenzen's book Flying Saucers, Chapter 11 (1966). See also there John Hopf's analysis of the photos, one of a number (including ones done for the Brazilian Navy) to attest to their authenticity. Lorenzen writes, "Rio de Janeiro's Ultimate Hora on February 21 [1958] reported that at least a hundred individuals had witnessed the sighting of the object..... The Brazilian press recorded interviews of many witnesses to the sighting, both military and civilian. The case of the IGY pictures remained on the front pages of Rio de Janeiro's newspapers for fully seven days." All the while, note, _no_disconfirming_testimony_ - which would have been easily enough obtained (and cited in every debunking account since) if it were the childish hoax and the Brazilian Navy the incompetent clods John wants us to believe in - came to light, even when intense newspaper competition surely had reporters out looking for it. An expose of a hoax that had fooled the military and the government would have sold a whole lot of papers. For all his huffing and puffing, John has yet to produce the name of a _single_individual_ who, while in a position to see the UFO Barauna photographed, stated that he saw nothing. John, in fact, pretends to believe negative testimony is irrelevant, even laughable, and hopes that you won't notice the Grand Canyon-sized hole in his argument. Remember, there is _no_negative_testimony_ after four and a half decades, during which the sighting and photograph have been repeatedly discussed in print and featured in electronic media. >They do not represent a full investigation of the Trindade >incident. The officer who compiled the report spoke to only one >person who was on board the ship at the time apart from Barauna >- the captain, who did not witness the incident. But who did step out immediately after the sighting occurred and observed the excitement and overhead the commentary of those who did. Or was he part of the hoax conspiracy, too? Official documents, let me repeat, refer to many witnesses, a fact confirmed by Brazilian press inquiries and interviews. See above. It is worth noting that on the evening of February 14, Brazil's leading ufologist, Dr. Olavo Fontes, met at the Navy Ministry, where he was shown five photographs, though Barauna had taken only four. Fontes thought all pictures were from the same sequence; he learned about the Trindade incident on February 4 and did not then know that Barauna's UFO photos numbered only four. He thought as much because the UFO in all five photos was identical -- a reasonable enough inference. Later, it was determined that the fifth photograph came from an incident which took place near Trindade Island a few days before the more famous incident. Fontes's source told him, Lorenzen writes: "The object came in very low over the island, flashed toward the meteorological post at high speed, slowed abruptly and hovered for a brief moment above Desejado Peak, then moved again in a zigzag course and was gone into the horizon at tremendous speed. The object was described as resembling a highly polished flattened spheroid with a large ring circling its equator. The ring appeared to be rotating at high speed, and the object made no sound as it flew. It was surrounded by an eerie greenish glow [described also by witnesses to the January 16 sighting which Barauna photographed] which almost disappeared while the object was hovering and becoming brighter when the object moved. Witnesses described the object as two or three times the size of a DC-3, and they said it appeared to be intelligently controlled. Investigations by Dr. Fontes revealed that the object was photographed by a Navy sergeant. (Fontes believes it is the fifth picture he viewed when he visited the Navy Ministry)." Presumably because the photographer was a military man under military discipline, not a civilian (as was Barauna), this picture has never been released. >Jerry consistently fails to address these simple facts, and >revealingly always snips them from my mailings when he replies >to them. Instead he retreats to a smokescreen, demanding that I >produce Brazilian naval reports about people who saw nothing! If >I could think of a better phrase I would use it, but - pause for >effect, roll of drums - this tells us more about Jerry than it >does about the Traindade case. What a load. John wants us to believe that, for the first time in the long international history of the UFO phenomenon, a military agency is suppressing negative evidence against a UFO sighting. Naturally, he has no evidence to support this extraordinary claim, or even anything remotely resembling a plausible explanation for why the Brazilian Navy would have wanted to do this, but that doesn't stop him from throwing baseless innuendo and speculation like mudballs at the wall, hoping something will stick. So far nothing has. No surprise there. >>From thousands of miles and more than four decades away, John >>can only flail away with guesswork, speculation, and innuendo. >My ever-trusty Readers' Digest World Atlas tells me that Canby, >Minnesota is 4750 miles from Trindade Island, whilst London, >England is a mere 4270 miles away from that wave-lashed islet. I >don't know what this means, any more than Jerry does, but I >thought it was vaguely interesting. Great thinking, John. I guess this is supposed to be a joke. Nonetheless: I was referring, of course, to the Brazilian Navy, which investigated the Trindade incident (and related sightings of Saturn-shaped objects and others in the area around the same time), as well as to Brazilian journalists. (An aside here: Why the continuing silence from our Brazilian colleagues? Would it be possible to provide us with translated versions of at least the most significant of the press stories from the period?) If asked whom to credit, I am sure any reasonable observer would conclude that those to be heeded are those who conducted investigations at the time of the incident's occurrence, not somebody who lives in London, who is four and a half decades removed from the events in question, and who - one might add - has a huge axe to grind where evidence of actual, structured UFOs of possibly unearthly origin are concerned. That's where you and I are different. Though I am convinced that UFOs are real and extraordinary, my view is not falsified by the Trindade incident's being proved a hoax. Your anti-UFO ideology collapses if the Trindade incident proves true. You have infinitely more to lose here, John. I think that explains a lot about the position you've taken, and the desperate argumentation you're indulging in. May I make a suggestion? Rather than argue for a hoax, which as we all know now you can't even begin to prove, why not take a classically skeptical position and simply walk away? You could say, for example, something to the effect: "Yes, I concede there's no real negative evidence here, and no evidence of a hoax. But for me to acknowledge the existence of UFOs as structured craft of unknown origin, I need, as Willy Ley put it long ago, 'wreckage, machinery, and bodies.'" I disagree with that position, but it is an arguable one which establishes that your bar of proof is very high. Obviously, Trindade cannot meet it. This way, you're not required to argue what you can't prove; all you need to state is that Trindade, whatever it is about, does not satisfy what you require. Then you can walk away and later, if you wish (as I'm sure you will), find something on which you can argue more productively. Meantime, you have the (apparently) insurmountable problem of not being able to provide a shred of negative evidence. I mean _actual_ evidence, such as a disconfirming statement by one of those many (as you would have it) non-witnesses. If the case is a hoax, it should be child's play to provide one. Just one statement, John. And while you're at it, maybe you can explain to us why you keep referring to named witnesses as "friends" of Barauna. First of all, what is your evidence that they were friends? Or in pelican prose do such distinctions as "friends" as opposed to "acquaintances" - if they were even that - somehow get lost in the interest of a useful smear? Do you know that Barauna and the quoted witnesses had a social relationship beyond shipmates? And second, what is your evidence that even if they were friends - again, something you have yet to demonstrate by (as usual) anything but ex cathedra pronouncement - that makes them somehow unsavory and not credible? To do that, you'd have to demonstrate Barauna was unsavory and not credible, and once again, you have produced precisely zero evidence for that reading of the man's character - which also escaped all Brazilian military people and journalists who interviewed witnesses and others associated with the episode. John, you really must understand a simple principle: arguments are settled on evidence, not on things that you make up as you go along, even less on ridicule of those who keep pointing out that you have no evidence. Innuendo and speculation are _not_ evidence. Will you ever understand that? From what I have seen, I would guess the answer is no. In the meantime, I hold no particular brief for the Trindade sighting and photographs. If the case is a hoax, I would love to see the evidence, and if it were persuasive, I would judge the case accordingly. I've done this before in my life (even, from time to time, myself exposed as hoaxes cases I once had thought valid). It doesn't bother me. I don't want to be fooled. What does bother me, though, is repeated exposure to bogus, evidence-untained pelicanist arguments which distort reality to a desired end, prefer innuendo to evidence, and, worse, insult my, and all our, intelligence. On the basis of what we've seen so far, it is safe to conclude that the Trindade incident remains a strong UFO case, "solvable" only to those whose will to disbelieve is sufficiently grave to diminish their ability to draw reasonable conclusions from available evidence. Until you produce real evidence, you are wasting our time. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 When Circles Crop Up Theories Soon Follow From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 23:05:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:00:19 -0400 Subject: When Circles Crop Up Theories Soon Follow Source: Colorado Springs Gazette via the Times Union - Albany, New York http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=54541&category=ARTS&BCCod e=&newsdate=8/2/2002 Stig *** When circles crop up, theories soon follow By WARREN EPSTEIN, (Colorado Springs) Gazette First published: Friday, August 2, 2002 ** Is it a sign of extraterrestrial visitation? The new M. Night Shyamalan thriller, 'Signs', which opens today, has revived questions about the worldwide crop-circle phenomenon. Ron Russell, an artist in Aurora, Colo., wouldn't put his money on aliens. But he would bank on the endurance of the crop-circle mystery. "We have discovered many ways to interact with these special energies (inside crop circles) and you will not be disappointed, no matter what level you are seeking," Russell promises on his nonprofit organization's Web site: http://www.cropcircles.org Russell hasn't yet seen 'Signs'. He's heard that it's more about scaring viewers than presenting a well-rounded view of crop circles. But he's glad the movie will bring more attention to the phenomenon. "Any publicity for the mystery of crop circles is good publicity," he says. For most of us, the greatest mystery about the crop circles is their origin. For decades (and some say, centuries) circles and various large geometric designs have been discovered in the middle of fields throughout the world. Upstate New York is no stranger to crop circles and UFO reports. Crop circles or other flattened areas in hay fields were reported in Schodack in 1994 and, a year earlier, in Herkimer and Oneida counties. And the 1999 book 'UFO USA: A Traveler's Guide to UFO Sightings, Abduction Sites, Crop Circles, and Other Unexplained Phenomena' (Hyperion, $12.95) ranked Pine Bush, in Orange County, and a stretch of the lower Hudson Valley along Westchester County as No. 3 in the United States among the top 10 hot spots for sightings of UFOs. A surge of Hudson Valley UFO reports began in 1983, and continued through the late-1980s. They were chronicled in a 1987 book, 'Night Siege: The Hudson Valley UFO Sightings' (Ballantine, $6.95). The unidentified flying object became known as the 'Westchester Boomerang'. The object was described repeatedly as a massive, V-shaped craft that hovered above the tree line and featured eerie lights. Many crop circles have been proven to be hoaxes. Others remain unexplained. UFO buffs see evidence of flying saucers. Some scientists have suggested natural weather-related explanations. Russell isn't as interested in the origins of the crop circles, most of which he believes are man-made, as he is in the unusual properties within them. "I and thousands of other people have felt some kind of energy, something that's not just your mind making it up," he says. "There's an external field of energy. The hair on your arms stands up." He says that during previous trips inside crop circles, his batteries have drained, his equipment has lost its power and his compasses have spun around. "It causes some people to get sick, other people get healed and some people feel this contact with spirit," he says. Every year, dozens of crop circles are reported throughout the globe, most of them in England. Signs Starring: Mel Gibson, Joaquin Phoenix, Cherry Jones Director: M. Night Shyamalan Running time: 106 minutes Rated: PG-13, for occasional strong language, tense situations, moments of terror, imperiled children (((THREE AND A HALF OF FOUR STARS))) Related story: REVIEW: 'Signs': The chilling fields Or is it a bunch of corn? ** Copyright
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Stockstill From: Bill Stockstill <size14d@bigfoot.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 17:07:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:03:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Stockstill >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:02 -0700 >Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>From: Adam Lowe <nicap@blueyonder.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:23:24 +0100 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:25:32 -0700 >>>Subject: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>>A few of you must have UFO related websites up, this question is >>>addressed to you especially. ><snip> >>>For the 33 days preceding 04 July 2002, I averaged 73.7 visits >>>per day. Suddenly, and starting off with a bang (183 hits on the >>>5rth of July, my hit counts nearly doubled. At first I thought >>>it was due to the long weekend etc., but it hasn't let up. >>>For the 30 days now logged starting with 5JLY02 I am averaging >>>124.9 hits per diem, a good 70% higher than the previous month. >>>My question is whether this is unique to my website, some new >>>link or listing in the search engines say, or whether the same >>>thing is happening to UFO sites in general. >><snip> >>The NICAP site usually gets around 750 hits a week, but the week >>of 8th -14th of July it went up to 836 and for the week of 22nd - >>28th it went up to 968. The last 3 days of July had 453 so the >>traffic did pick up for us last month as well. <snip> >If this is the case, the question is whether something in the >media, or perhaps some event, has spurred an increase of >interest in UFO studies (as opposed to simple entertainment) .. >something that would explain an abrupt and sustained rise in >visits. Having previewed the new movie Signs earlier this week I would expect a jump in hits on UFO related websites with its nationwide release today. Some of the July website traffic increases may be related to the nationwide release of Men In Black 2 on July 3, which if I recall had an extended theatrical trailer of Signs. If you haven't made plans to see Signs, it is a great movie IMHO. Those disappointed in Mothman, most likely will enjoy Signs. Its a "War of the Worlds" type movie focusing on a small family. I enjoyed it so much I saw it again today . Yours, Bill Stockstill
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 Secrecy News -- 08/02/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 18:00:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:05:27 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/02/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 71 August 2, 2002 ** COURT ORDERS SEPT 11 DETAINEE NAMES REVEALED COURT ORDERS SEPT 11 DETAINEE NAMES REVEALED In a ringing affirmation that the Government must comply with the law even in times of crisis, a federal court today ordered the Bush Administration to disclose the names of most of the individuals who have been detained in connection with the September 11 terrorist attacks. The landmark decision came in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by the Center for National Security Studies, the ACLU, and twenty-one other public interest and advocacy organizations. Judge Gladys Kessler directed that "the Government must release the identities of all individuals detained during the course of its September 11 investigation" (excepting those held as material witnesses), as well as the identities of their legal counsel. The Court said that the Government justifiably withheld information concerning the dates and locations of arrest, detention and release. "The federal Government's power to arrest and hold individuals is an extraordinary one," Judge Kessler wrote. "Here, the Government has used its arrest power to detain individuals as part of an investigation that is widespread in its scope and secrecy." "Plaintiffs voice grave concerns about the abuse of this power, ranging from denial of the right to counsel and consular notification, to discriminatory and arbitrary detention, to the failure to file charges for prolonged periods of detention, to mistreatment of detainees in custody," she continued. "Unquestionably, the public's interest in learning the identities of those arrested and detained is essential to verifying whether the Government is operating within the bounds of the law," she stated. The ruling discussed at length the Government's legal, security and privacy arguments against disclosure, and found them all wanting. The Government now has 15 days to comply with the Court's order, or to seek an appeal. See the August 2 Memorandum Opinion in Center for National Security Studies et al v. United States Department of Justice here: http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/01-2500.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news- request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 2 The Enterprise Mission & The Anatomy Of Credulity From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 17:55:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 22:12:52 -0400 Subject: The Enterprise Mission & The Anatomy Of Credulity Cydonian Imperative 8-2-02 The Enterprise Mission and the Anatomy of Credulity: The Face on Mars in "Contact" by Mac Tonnies For images and additional material: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html 1. "Now You See It..." In the opening scene in the Robert Zemeckis film "Contact," based on the best-selling novel by Carl Sagan, the viewer is given a jaw-dropping, faster-than-light tour of the Cosmos as the "camera" zooms out from a view of Earth. The planets are rendered with computer-generated savvy, so perhaps it comes as no surprise to note that Mars features an inconspicuous lump the special effects team assures us is none other than the famous "Face." [image] The Face in "Contact" is visible in the lower-left corner. The blink-and-you-missed-it effect is noted by effects artists Ken Ralston and Stephen Rosenbaum in one of their "making of" featurettes on the "Contact" DVD, and came to my attention after The Enterprise Mission (TEM) posted its latest article ("The High Priestess of SETI Speaks"). I initially questioned TEM's claim, since I'd viewed the DVD and recalled no reference to the Face; as it turns out, I had listened to one of two FX voice- overs describing the opening sequence: the one that excludes mention of the Face. Fans of "Mission to Mars," with its elaborate revisionist version of the Face, are likely to be disappointed by "Contact's" depiction of the controversial surface feature. Seen up close, it looks like nothing in particular, and neighboring anomalies such as the Cliff appear to be absent. 2. Cool Special Effects or Conspiratorial Sleight-of-Hand? TEM suggests that the presence of the Face in "Contact" represents an inside agenda on behalf of Carl Sagan, upon whose book the screenplay was based. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara, TEM's most public advocates, are correct in their characterization of Carl Sagan as a politically conscious figure with the resources and know-how to sculpt his public image. In "Carl Sagan: A Life," author Keay Davidson notes that Sagan's early "debunking" of UFO reports was motivated more out of desire to appear acceptable to his colleagues (to whom Sagan's thoughts on exobiology and interstellar travel seemed esoteric if not downright eccentric) than personal interest in the phenomenon. Sagan's view of the Face on Mars evolved from outright dismissal to reluctant caution (as exemplified in his notorious article in "Parade" magazine and his commentary in "The Demon-Haunted World," respectively). However, the notion that Sagan controlled all aspects of the "Contact" film project (which was completed after his death) is false. Sagan obviously wielded a degree of authority in the adaptation of his novel, but the film bears Robert Zemeckis' creative signature. A case in point is the opening sequence described above. In one of the commentaries available on the DVD, Ralston and Rosenbaum point out that that the idea for the opening sequence was submitted to Carl for his opinion (and not the other way around). This tends to cast doubt on TEM's implication that including the Face was Sagan's personal doing. In theory, Sagan could have retroactively insisted on including the Face, but the jocular comments shared by the FX artists strongly suggest it was entirely their own doing. And if Sagan had spontaneously decided the Face demanded inclusion, I find it extremely odd that Ralston and Rosenbaum don't mention this unusual request from none other than one of the century's most important scientists. And why not simply mention the Face in his novel, over which he had unquestioned and complete control? The only reference to Mars is a dismissive comment about a rover revealing an unnamed Martian "pyramid" to be a natural landform. This is certainly bizarre behavior for a man supposedly bent on "leaking" the alleged reality of monumental architecture on Mars. Are we to accept that the Face's almost-cameo in the film is anything other than a clever attempt at verisimilitude? 3. Secret Agendas, Life on Mars, and The Enterprise Mission: An Epistemological Meltdown Supposition is not evidence. By forcing the Cydonia enigma into a convoluted and restrictive conceptual framework, TEM has often helped to trivialize the planetary SETI inquiry. At the same time, there is no doubt that NASA has indeed misrepresented itself in its dealings with the Face. TEM's fault is not its willingness to address possible conspiracies and hidden knowledge, but its certainty that such conspiracies exist based on conveniently "symbolic" evidence. The Sagan/Face on Mars/"Contact" scenario (which makes no sense even if true) is the latest in a dreary parade of vague coincidences TEM has plugged into its grand unified theory, from the comical ("Tom Corbett: Space Cadet") to the illucid (i.e., secret knowledge of Cydonian tetrahedral mathematics encoded in Stanley Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey"). Of course, TEM has accused me of dishonest and sinister motives whenever I express even a hint of skepticism in the pages of the Cydonian Imperative. I don't blame them. TEM commands a prodigious readership, and principal investigator Richard Hoagland has become (rightly) near-synonymous with the "Face on Mars." His eagerly anticipated appearances on Art Bell's late- night talk-radio program are never less than fascinating, if for no other reason than the phildickian nuances he grants even the dry bones of NASA insider politics. Entertainment-wise, TEM fills a void with its inimitable formula of paranoia and science. Its appeal is comparable to that of "The X-Files"--which, interestingly, TEM occasionally uses as a source. To TEM's credit, a lot of its science is quite real: TEM's website features provocative and plausible explanations for various Martian phenomena. But the site's substrate of unsubstantiated claims, reliance on (literal) science fiction, implied accusation, and truly Olympian leaps of "logic" only undermines the central issue: Are there artificial structures on Mars, and if so, how does such a discovery effect us as a civilization and as a species? -end- ===== Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies http://mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 CCCRN News: Double Circle/Ring Formation Limehouse From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 03:39:42 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 03:17:29 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Double Circle/Ring Formation Limehouse CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 2, 2002 _____________________________ CROP WATCH 2002 DOUBLE CIRCLE / RING FORMATION IN LIMEHOUSE, ONTARIO Another formation in Ontario reported yesterday by Matt Rock of CCCRN, near the town of Limehouse, which is close to Georgetown, the location of previous formation. Farmer reports first seeing it on July 23, the same date as the Georgetown formation. Stalks bent but not broken near ground. Swollen nodes on stalks. Formation is a double circle in wheat, one circle with a surrounding ring, approximately 33 metres (109 feet) long. Field already harvested, but formation itself still clearly visible. Clockwise lay in both circles and ring. Some inital diagrams and photos have been posted. This is the sixth report for 2002. Please continue to temporarily use the copy of the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page here: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject/circlescanada02.html Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field investigations and studies of formations, aerial surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public and the media, in particular during the prime August / September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 00:10:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 07:56:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch >From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 20:10:56 +0100 >Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:25:32 -0700 >>Subject: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? ><snip> >>For the 30 days now logged starting with 5JLY02 I am >>averaging 124.9 hits per diem, a good 70% higher than the >>previous month. > >>My question is whether this is unique to my website, some >>hot link or listing in the search engines say, or whether >>the same thing is happening to UFO sites in general. ><snip> >>Some feedback from other UFO webmasters might give me a >>good clue, much appreciated in advance. If your counts are >>just about normal for the same period, I would like to know >>that too. >Hi Larry, >People seem to enter my site at various pages, though the UFO >Roundup index page usually has the highest number of visitors. >The most recent **weekly** figures are as follows: >June 30th - July 6th >==================== >Index page - 1081 >Contents - 1441 >Filer - 769 >Roundup - 2405 >July 7th - 13th >=============== >Index page - 1138 >Contents - 1459 >Filer - 927 >Roundup - 2825 > >July 14th - 20th >================ >Index page - 1328 >Contents - 1498 >Filer - 887 >Roundup - 2507 >July 21st - 27th >================ >Index page - 8405 >Contents - 1546 >Filer - 910 >Roundup - 2987 >July 28th - Aug 2nd (incomplete) >================================ >Index page - 9948 >Contents - 1390 >Filer - 877 >Roundup - 2607 >At first I thought it might be something to do with the F-16 >reports but the number of hits on the index page are not carried >through to the Contents page which is the only page they can get >to from there. I can only assume there are some people out there >being a bit silly....or my photograph scares them off ;-) >Occasionally UFO Roundup is included on the WebTV startup page >which tends to send the hits haywire but those visitors follow >through to other pages, while a link from the Art Bell web site >a few years ago used up my daily bandwidth allowance in 2 hours! >Fortunately the hosting company at the time turned a deliberate >blind eye to the hits for the whole week. Hello John! I had something similar happen with the Art Bell site. The webmaster there put up a tiny one-line link to my site, lost amidst hundreds of others, and whammo! 1200 hits in one day. Likewise my ISP let it slide, partly I suppose because my pages are short (50k generally, including UFO maps!) instead of dreadfully slow bandwidth eating photos etc. I do see the sudden rise in your visits counts, but that appears 2 weeks after the one here. Thanks much for the info! - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Cammack From: Diana Cammack <cammack@eomw.net> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 10:50:53 +0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 08:01:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Cammack >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:02 -0700 >Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>From: Adam Lowe <nicap@blueyonder.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:23:24 +0100 >Since each of our sites links to the other, there might be some >mutual influence, but not nearly enough to explain a 50% or 70% >"step-function" in visit counts. >If this is the case, the question is whether something in the >media, or perhaps some event, has spurred an increase of >interest in UFO studies (as opposed to simple entertainment) .. >something that would explain an abrupt and sustained rise in >visits. Is this a US-based upsurge, or is it international - i.e., in other parts of the world where US TV programmes and movie releases and US sighting would have little or no effect? I am sure some would like to believe that the rise in 'hits' has to do with heightened consciousness brought on by an ET 'switch' of some sort..... Once you can eliminate media interference, then you can begin to look at other causes..... Then it becomes interesting! Diana (in central Africa)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Special F/X Mars Face Makes Contact From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 02:20:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 08:16:02 -0400 Subject: Special F/X Mars Face Makes Contact From: The Electric Warrior (Kurt Jonach) -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : Web Log August 3, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com -------------------------------------------------- SPECIAL F/X MARS FACE MAKES CONTACT martian enigmas image: "Contact" Video Frame Capture http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/MarsFaceContact.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - Believe it or not, the Face on Mars can be briefly glimpsed in the movie "Contact". "Contact" is based on a science-fiction story by the late Carl Sagan. In it, a group of international scientists believe they have found a message sent by extraterrestrial intelligence. Portraying the classic SETI hoped-for encounter, Jodie Foster's character is loosely based on the SETI Institute's own Dr. Jill Tarter. Sagan, one of the first planetary scientists to go by that name, was both well known and well loved for his open-minded speculation about the the possibility of intelligent life beyond Earth. But he was also a stickler for scientific methodology, known for caustic debunking of alternative science topics, like the Face on Mars. How the Mars Face got into the movie is currently a matter of debate, but thanks to The Enterprise Mission, the high-tech special effect seen in the opening shot of the movie is now decidedly public knowledge. The effect - lasting only one second - goes by so quickly that most movie goers and home viewers probably wouldn't notice it. A DVD video clip extra, which describes the creation of the Mars shot, is buried so many menu levels down, you'd probably have to know it was there to find it. The debate involves whether or not the special F/X face is a good natured joke that went entirely unnoticed by Sagan, or something intentional. Mac Tonnies, who authors an online blog called The Cydonian Imperative, says the jocular comments by the special F/X team give the impression that the Face was entirely their own doing. "Moreover, it doesn't appear to be situated correctly on the Martian globe, but I could be wrong on that," says Tonnies. "Thanks to Mike Bara for bringing the Face's presence to my attention." The Enterprise Mission recently commented about SETI's Dr. Jill Tarter and her new interest in SETV (Search for ET Visitation). TEM now casts SETI as a NASA shill, speculating, "The truth is that SETI is a 'front' for NASA." In other words, a politically correct vehicle for ET disclosure. As TEM tells it, Sagan "made sure the special effects team stuck a representation of the Face on the globe of Mars during the film's opening sequence." -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES The Electric Warrior thanks the Carl Sagan's Contact News Group for their expert input on the Mars Face special effect. You can find it on the "Contact" Special Edition DVD, between 1'10"- 1'11". The video frame capture that accompanies this article was also provided. http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/MarsFaceContact.jpg 30-Jul-02 Hoagland: The High Priestess of SETI Speaks http://www.enterprisemission.com/tartar.htm (Enterprise Mission) - This source, the one that some of our critics have insisted does not exist... has recently informed us that word has come down from the highest levels of our own government that it is time for "the lid to come off Cydonia," among other long held secrets. While there continues to be "fevered" internal debate about just how much and under what circumstances to reveal, we understand that contrary to official NASA statements, not only does significant new data concerning Cydonia exist, but it is "too good" to allow it to be released publicly... at least, just yet. 02-Aug-02 The Enterprise Mission and the Anatomy of Credulity: The Face on Mars in "Contact" http://mactonnies.com/imperative33.html (The Cydonian Imperative) - TEM suggests that the presence of the Face in "Contact" represents an inside agenda on behalf of Carl Sagan, upon whose book the screenplay was based. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Entertainment-wise, TEM fills a void with its inimitable formula of paranoia and science. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR August 3, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Website Visits Up Thanks! From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 03:00:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 08:21:17 -0400 Subject: Website Visits Up Thanks! Hello all, First I want to thank everyone who wrote on and off-List to help me figure out why my website hits too a sudden sustained 70% increase starting 05 July 2002! As Rod Brock pointed out, my site is first on a list of many thousands if you browse Google for "UFO Database". Thing is, almost nobody uses that for a search phrase. I pulled in the "Submit" file from my ISP to study the hits. I found a lot of Yahoo search engine referrals, and nowhere saw "UFO Database" nor "UFO Statistics". Instead, I saw that many many people, worldwide, simply typed in "UFO", no quotes, just 3 letters as you might expect. That made me curious, so I did the same thing. Lo and behold, instead of on page 97 of a zillion referrals, the *U* UFO Database website was 5th from the top of regular (unpaid/non-sponsored) sites, on the very first page! I was edged out by MUFON which came in 3rd or so, but I beat out the CUFOS site which was 6th.(Sorry Mary!) I can only presume that Yahoo made these changes on or about 5 July, and that would explain everything. Here are the Yahoo top ten, browsing for just plain "UFO": 1. Screen Memories: UFO Mythology and Science Fiction Films http://www.hedweb.com/markp/ufofilm.htm 2. National UFO Reporting Center - sighting reports from the most widely used UFO reporting agency in the US. http://www.ufocenter.com/ 3. MUFON: The Mutual UFO Network http://www.mufon.com/ 4. Obiwan's UFO-Free Paranormal Page [!] - folklore ghost- stories site, focuses on ghosts, hauntings, and paranormal links. http://www.ghosts.org/ 5. *U* UFO Database - offers maps and graphs from a 15-year study of UFOs. [make that 17 years -LH] http://www.larryhatch.net 6. Center for UFO Studies http://www.cufos.org/ 7. International UFO Museum & Research Center - dedicated to seeking the truth about the 1947 Roswell Incident, UFOs, and any subjects or phenomenon related to UFOs. http://www.iufomrc.com/ 8. UFO Folklore http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/framemst.html 9. UFO Magazine - reports on sightings, abductions, current research, new technologies, and conspiracy theories. http://www.ufomag.com 10. UFO Abduction Insurance - offers the perfect policy for anyone who thinks they have everything covered. http://www.ufo2001.com/ - - - - - A highly irregular list granted, but I was expecting a complete pile of trash; nothing as creditable as CUFOS for example [which came in 6th, Mary .. nyaah nyaaah] It looks like Yahoo, perhaps in response to competition from Google, is really fixing up their act. They even labeled the Sponsored (paid placement) Links as such. Now I will check out some other search engines. Best wishes and thanks again - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Lowe From: Adam Lowe <nicap@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 11:00:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 08:24:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Lowe >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:02 -0700 >Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>From: Adam Lowe <nicap@blueyonder.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:23:24 +0100 >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:25:32 -0700 >>>Subject: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>>A few of you must have UFO related websites up, this question is >>>addressed to you especially. ><snip> >>>For the 33 days preceding 04 July 2002, I averaged 73.7 visits >>>per day. Suddenly, and starting off with a bang (183 hits on the >>>5rth of July, my hit counts nearly doubled. At first I thought >>>it was due to the long weekend etc., but it hasn't let up. >>>For the 30 days now logged starting with 5JLY02 I am averaging >>>124.9 hits per diem, a good 70% higher than the previous month. >>>My question is whether this is unique to my website, some new >>>link or listing in the search engines say, or whether the same >>>thing is happening to UFO sites in general. >><snip> >>The NICAP site usually gets around 750 hits a week, but the week >>of 8th -14th of July it went up to 836 and for the week of 22nd - >>28th it went up to 968. The last 3 days of July had 453 so the >>traffic did pick up for us last month as well. >Hello Adam: >Much appreciated! I take it then that the NICAP site had a >sustained and sudden increase like mine did, and that it >happened at the same time! >Since each of our sites links to the other, there might be some >mutual influence, but not nearly enough to explain a 50% or 70% >"step-function" in visit counts. >If this is the case, the question is whether something in the >media, or perhaps some event, has spurred an increase of >interest in UFO studies (as opposed to simple entertainment) .. >something that would explain an abrupt and sustained rise in >visits. Hi again Larry. The hits have increased a bit over previous months from around 650 a week to 750 but there was definitely a big jump last month. Thursday was a slow day with only 78 hits but the count went up to 163 again yesterday. I had the monthly search engine report last night and that usually has around 70 queries but it was 242 for July. I wasn't really able to tell what all the interest was in unfortunately. I'll continue to keep an eye on the number of hits and let you know what's happening. Adam
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 05:27:03 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 09:25:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? - Hatch >From: Diana Cammack <cammack@eomw.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 10:50:53 +0300 >Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 12:07:02 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>>From: Adam Lowe <nicap@blueyonder.co.uk> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: Sudden Jump In UFO Website Hits? >>>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:23:24 +0100 <snip> >>... the question is whether something in the >>media, or perhaps some event, has spurred an increase of >>interest in UFO studies (as opposed to simple entertainment) .. >>something that would explain an abrupt and sustained rise in >>visits. >Is this a US-based upsurge, or is it international - i.e., in >other parts of the world where US TV programmes and movie >releases and US sighting would have little or no effect? >I am sure some would like to believe that the rise in 'hits' has >to do with heightened consciousness brought on by an ET 'switch' >of some sort..... >Once you can eliminate media interference, then you can begin to >look at other causes..... >Then it becomes interesting! >Diana (in central Africa) Hello Diana! UFO correspondents are hard to find on certain continents. With the death of Cynthia Hind, the flow of UFO info from Africa has come to an almost complete halt. BTW, my dad, who died only 6 years ago, was born in Melsetter, Southern Rhodesia - since renamed. As I noted in an earlier post, I think I found probably cause for the "sustained step-function increase" in my visitor counts or hits; it was an upgraded Yahoo! listing for "UFO", tres simple. More interesting is the little clues I got from the access.html file from my host ISP. A quick scan, starting at the busier period beginning 05JLY02 shows a whole bunch of hits from Japan, along with lots of countries that I never used to see much... places like Poland, Lithuania - .xx type extensions I cannot yet decipher. Yahoo may have taken a dump, but it is well attended in some far flung places! In short, I cannot attribute any of this to an upsurge in UFO activities or public interest. I consider this a simple matter of search engine placement. Given that, I'm sorry for all the fuss, pleased with the ratings and hits, and at least we learned was a little bit more about the InterNet. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Ball Lightning Enters House From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 17:14:53 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:05:28 -0400 Subject: Ball Lightning Enters House Source: Leicester Mercury - England www.leicestermercury.co.uk 31 July 2002 Girl Is Struck By Lightning An 11-year-old girl was struck by lightning as she sat on the sofa of her living room. Jade Greenwood was sitting with her grandmother, great grandmother and sister when the glowing red ball of lightning struck her on the head. Jade said she was left with a faint red mark and felt as though someone had pinched her hard on the forehead and then on the leg. Experts say the family may have experienced the phenomenon known as ball lightning or St Elmo's Fire. The lightning struck at the Wigston home of Jade's grandmother, Jacqui, during the height of Monday's storms at 6.30pm. Jacqui said: "We were all sat on the couch. The patio doors were open and we had the front door open as well. "Suddenly this red ball, with what looked like sparks coming from it, came in and went through the house. "The charger for my electric wheelchair came on, a battery operated electrical game came on and a bouncy ball with a flashing spark inside started lighting up. It was gone within a couple of seconds and there was this almighty bang. Afterwards, there was a slight burning smell and we saw Jade was left with a red mark on her head." Jade added: "It was just a massive shock. I felt like someone had pinched me really hard. "I felt a slight burn on my head and then it felt like someone had set my leg on fire. I had two metal clips in my hair and was the only one of us wearing metal, so I think that is why it was attracted to me." Mr Greenwood treated the singe with ice and took her grand- daughter to the doctor yesterday. Professor David Llewellyn-Jones, an expert in atmospheric physics at Leicester University's Earth Observation Sciences department, said what the family had seen appeared consistent with ball lightning. He said: "You get a build-up of electrical field around various objects, often just before a lightning strike. It's capable of ionizing the atmosphere which can result in a glow. It's relatively rare and it is often known as St Elmo's Fire." ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? - From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 16:41:13 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:08:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? - >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 06:11:54 +0200 >Subject: Crop Circles Precursors Or Occult Metaphors? >Source: San Francisco Chronicle >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2002/08/01/MN42887.DT L >Stig >Dennis Stacy of San Antonio, Texas, publisher of the journal The >Anomalist, took part in two expeditions to English circles in >the early 1990s. He sent back crop samples to the first U.S. >researchers, but later his doubts grew. >"We've had sporadic crop circles in this country, and by the >same token we've never had anything of the complexity of English >crop circles," he said. "If these are being made by alien crop >circle-makers, why do they make such crappy circles in the >United States and Canada and such exquisite ones over there?" Just one note here; many of the Canadian formations have been anything but crappy. While not as complex _design-wise_ as their English counterparts for the most part, we have seen some beautiful lay patterns that were exquisite and elaborate with multiple layers, alternating flows, bundling, etc. just as good as any in Europe. The swollen and ruptured nodes, deformed stalks, mineral composition changes in affected soil, electronic equipment failure, compass deviations and other anomalies have also been found in many formations over the years. I respect Dennis' work and do like The Anomalist, but the comment given unfortunately furthers the misconception that I still hear sometimes that all North American circles have been 'crappy'. Not true! Paul Anderson Canadian Crop Circle Research Network
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: McMinville/Rouen UFO Appear In UK 52 Years From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 12:52:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 13:13:19 -0400 Subject: Re: McMinville/Rouen UFO Appear In UK 52 Years >From: Chris Rolfe <UFOMEK@whsmithnet.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:20:31 -0400 >Subject: McMinville/Rouen UFO Appear In UK 52 Years Later >On Thursday,13 June 2002 Mr Bob Fetch and his son observed from >their property in Tonbridge, Kent, England, an object that they >at first though was a childs helium filled balloon. But the >object was moving sideways and not upwards, which aroused their >suspicions, and it appeared to be disc shaped. Mr. Fetch ran >nto the house to grab his camera, and with his son ran after >the object. >They found themselves in a field behind the Langley Hotel, in >London Road, Tonbridge, where they got a good view of the >object, and there were several other people out walking their >dogs who also saw the object, which was completely silent. >Mr. Fetch managed to take one clear photograph of the object in >colour, before it silently flew off. They observed it for about >ten minutes. >He forwarded the photograph to his local newspaper, the Kent & >East Sussex Chronicle, who published in their July 12 edition. >So far UFO Monitors East Kent, and UFO Magazine have only seen >the picture as it appeared in the newspaper article, but hope to >see the hard copy very soon. >It shows a disc like object with what looks like an aerial or >tower on top, just like the McMinville photographs taken by Paul >Trent on 11 May, 1950, in the State of Oregon, USA, and again >photographed in Rouen, France in 1954 by a French Airforce >pilot. Another witness also from Tonbridge, has come forward to >claim that he saw exactly the same object as Mr.Fetch and his >son. This other witness says he saw it in the Ashdown Forest >area in East Sussex (approx 15 miles SW of Tonbridge). UFOMEK, >hope to speak to this witness very shortly. Naturally it will be interesting to see if this photo can be established as authentic. A minor correction: The Rouen photo, first published in the July 1957 Royal AF Flying Review, was, reportedly, taken in March, 1957 (if I recall correctly).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 3 F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:06:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:07:39 -0400 Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up Follow Up With Maj. Snyder Major Snyder, Command Spokesman for the U.S. Space Command and NORAD, was contacted by E-mail on Monday morning, July 29 for brief follow up to our Saturday afternoon telephone conversation concerning the unidentified aircraft approaching Washington D.C. on July 26 as detected by NORAD radar. Maj. Snyder was thanked for his earlier answers to some questions and the E-mail posed a few more detailed questions to him. These eight questions were as follows: 1) What was the elevation, speed and approximate location of the July 26th unidentified radar target when it first appeared? 2) At what time was the unidentified radar target first detected? 3) Did the aircraft undertake any flight changes or course adjustments? 4) What was the elevation, speed and approximate location of this same unidentified radar target when it last appeared? 5) At what time was it last detected? 6) What was the duration of the fading process from beginning to end? 7) What exact radar sensor(s) detected this unidentified aircraft? 8) Did you have time to research whether or not the F-16 jets were visible on radar simultaneous to the unidentified target? Later that evening, Maj. Snyder responded to the eight questions with one brief statement: "Kenny, that's a negative on all. These are issues we don't address for operational security concerns. Thanks, Maj. Snyder" SECOND FOLLOW UP A second-level follow up was then brought before Maj. Snyder, where I asked: "One last question please; I noted that much of the information was made available concerning the small private aircraft intercepted near Washington D.C. last June (where the FBI was waiting for the pilot as the plane landed). Why will these same issues will not be addressed with this current case and what makes this issue different?" On Tuesday afternoon (July 30), Major Snyder responded to that question with the following comment: "I don't know all the details of the example provided. However, it's kinda apples and oranges. In that situation, a questionable track-of-interest was identified and landed at an airport, which was not the case last week. However, in none of the situations we're involved in do we release the info you asked about yesterday. Sometimes the law enforcement agencies get involved, per below, and might divulge details. That's their prerogative. Hope this helps." ANALYSIS In review of Maj. Snyder's comments, some of what he informs appears inconsistent with previous precedent. Certain questions regarding the July 26, 2002 suspected UFO/radar case have been refused while similar data from a June 19, 2002 unintentional aircraft intrusion of Washington D.C. airspace is public knowledge. After this June 19th intrusion, in which a small private aircraft ventured briefly into restricted Washington D.C. airspace due to a navigational error made by the pilot, information was made available to CNN that the off-course aircraft of June 19th entered the outer edge of the expanded Flight Restriction zone around Washington D.C. about 7:59 p.m. Further, a June 21, 2002 New York Times article by Eric Schmitt reports that Air Traffic controllers in Baltimore first spotted the light aircraft heading to Washington just before 8:00 p.m. This revelation informs us of a specific time the June 19th plane was first 'spotted' while we have been denied information on when the July 26th UFO target was first spotted. From the New York Times article we are also made aware of the detection method used to spot the June 19th plane; that being Air Traffic Controllers at a Baltimore, Maryland air tower. Meanwhile, similar information relevant to detection location or sensor as per the July 26th UFO target was withheld. Further, ABC News was informed that the June 19 plane "skirted" the smaller permanent restricted airspace at 10,300 feet inside the TFR zone. While the flight elevation of the erring pilot was made available, Maj. Snyder stressed the need to withhold the elevation of the UFO target of June 26 due to "operational security concerns" Even more perplexing to the secrecy surrounding the timeline of events involving the July 26 UFO target, a full-fledged timeline of events has been made available concerning the June 19 erring pilot episode. This timeline, reported by ABC News and others, is listed below: 7:59 Baltimore air traffic controllers notified Reagan National Airport controllers that an unidentified plane was heading toward Washington. 7:59 - 8:01 National Airport ATC tries to raise the plane on a number of frequencies, but are unable to contact the pilot. 8:01 The plane enters the Temporary Flight Restriction Zone around the White House. National Airport officials contact both the Secret Service and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), which is responsible for airspace security. Defense Department sources say NORAD was notified at 8:03, and that the plane entered the TFR zone at 8:04. 8:06 NORAD orders F-16s scrambled, according to Defense Department sources. 8:13 Cessna leaves TFR Zone after air traffic controllers finally reach the pilot, and he is notified of the violation and told that fighter jets had been scrambled. 8:17 F-16s are airborne, according to Defense Department Sources. 8:24 Fighters make visual contact with Cessna near Fredericksburg, Va. CONCLUSION NORAD and Maj. Snyder have not been prompt in releasing a timeline of events or answers to specific information concerning a UFO radar target of July 26, 2002, and have advised that this information will not be released due to 'operational security.' As noted above, Major Snyder said: "In none of the situations we're involved in do we release the info you asked about." However, as illustrated in this report, the same information was indeed released regarding the June 19, 2002 case of a pilot making a navigational error near the nation's capitol. Filed, July 30, 2002 KENNY YOUNG -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Ball Lightning Enters House - Meiners From: Jean Meiners <legalco2002@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 13:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:08:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Ball Lightning Enters House - Meiners >From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 17:14:53 +0100 >Subject: Ball Lightning Enters House >Source: Leicester Mercury - England >www.leicestermercury.co.uk >31 July 2002 >Girl Is Struck By Lightning >An 11-year-old girl was struck by lightning as she >sat on the >sofa of her living room. >Jade Greenwood was sitting with her grandmother, great >grandmother and sister when the glowing red ball of lightning >struck her on the head. <snip> I know that before I was born by a couple of months, 1940, my father had a crystal radio and a very high antenna outside of the farm house. It was early one morning that ball lightening came through the radio (as he told the story), bounced across the floor to the back sleeping porch where it exploded with the sound of a canon and took off the back porch and part of the kitchen. Out of 23 kids, none were hurt, but sure were scared to death. My only recollection of ball lightening was in Los Angeles, California. During the height of a storm two ball lightening bounced down the road. One exploded harmlessly in the road and the other took out a car that was parked on the side of the street. It was quite spectacular, but the air seemed to hum it was so heavily charged. Jean M.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Lights Over Cornwall Prompt UFO Calls From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 02:15:43 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:10:54 -0400 Subject: Lights Over Cornwall Prompt UFO Calls Source: Western Morning News - North Devon UK http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=103354&command=displayC ontent&sourceNode=103331&contentPK=2281375 Stig *** LIGHTS PROMPT UFO CALLS 09:00 - 03 August 2002 ** Strange lights in the sky above Cornwall which were seen by a number of people prompted a flurry of calls to a local radio station yesterday. BBC Radio Cornwall dealt with the inquiries after a woman from the south- east of the county rang the station to report seeing lights coming down in a field. The station's Laurence Reed said the call had attracted more than its fair share of interest as it fired the imagination of more listeners. He said: "We had a call from a woman from the Camelford area who said that she had seen a UFO. "We had another man on who suggested that it might have been the International Space Station which was orbiting through the night sky. "But what it really was I'm not quite sure. "We have had plenty of calls about it and we had one man on air. It certainly seems to be a subject close to people's hearts." It is not the first time that the radio station has been called with reports of UFOs. In the past, many such sightings have been solved with more terrestrial explanations. Mr Reed said: "The last time we had one of these discussions it was decided that what people had seen and thought to be an unidentified flying object was actually the searchlights from a Newquay nightclub reflecting off some low-level clouds. "But what was seen in the Camelford area this time is still a mystery. "I live in that area, and I will be out on the weekend with a torch making my own investigations." Colin Stewart, who is a member of a project group which is hoping to build an observatory for Cornwall near Truro, said: "I work on the basis that if anybody had bothered to come all that way from another planet to Earth they would make it known that they were here. "Unless, of course, they were not very intelligent - but then they are unlikely to have been able to get here if that were the case. It is summer and we do get showers of meteorites which can just look like bright lights flashing quickly across the sky." Dr Robert Massey, of the Greenwich Observatory in London , said he could not think of an astronomical explanation for the lights. "There's nothing really that I can think of at the moment which would produce such a thing - but there are many, many different things that it could be," he said. "The planet Venus is visible at the moment quite low in the sky just after sunset. That is often the cause of some of these sightings. "It's not likely to be the International Space Station - that only looks like a fairly slow-moving light which takes about three or four minutes to go right across the sky. "It really is difficult to say what this person has seen." jsmith@westcountrypublications.co.uk ** Copyright [Link]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Washington UFO Seen Over Michigan? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 03:29:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:13:51 -0400 Subject: Washington UFO Seen Over Michigan? Source: LUNA (Local UFO Network Administration), http://luna.virtunova.net/mi-in/report_2002_07_28_2657.html There are some typing errors regarding the dates. I have put the correct ones in []. After the report you'll find a request from Luna that repeats the errors. Stig *** - Report of an Unidentified Flying Object, "UFO" - Sunday, July 28th 2002 Mrs. Cora Smilkovich Taylor djshadeaux@yahoo.com Davison , MI LUNA Record ID: 2002_07_28_2657 Report ABUSE Name: Cora Smilkovich Surname: Taylor Location: Davison, MI eMail: djshadeaux@yahoo.com DOB: June 23th 1976 Occupation: Student/several jobs Personal Notices: Two separate sightings Location Of Sighting: Davison and Troy, Michigan Date Of Sighting: July 29th 2002 [July 27th 2002] Time Of Sighting: 3 AM Sighting Notices: The Washington Post said another man in Washington noticed this object. The First sighting in Davison took place two weeks ago on July 13, 2001 [2002]. Strange as coincidences are, I've read a bunch of UFOs flew over Washington 50 years ago on the same date and people refused to report it! Weather Conditions: Cloudy Address Of Witnesses Known: No Number Of Witnesses: 1 Alien Contact: No Alien Abduction: No Object's Size: 100+ Ft. [n/a] Object's Shape: Square Shaped Object's Altitude: 500 Ft. [n/a] Object's Speed: Mach 5 [mph] Object's Color: Whale gray w/ blue light aura glow Object's Noises: none Object Catched: No Image: none Object notices: I can draw an image and send it to you but that will be all I have. I do not usually carry a camera with me. Incident Description Gov't chased UFOs seen in michigan! I never thought I would see anything strange in the sky. All that changed two weeks ago. On Saturday July 13, 2001 [2002] my friend and I was talking to one of our neighbors outside at his trailer park in Davison. The sky was clear and we could see something moving across the sky. I thought it was a satellite but then it stopped moving and did a sharp U- turn. It was so small because it was so far away. Then it faded away. I then noticed another one moving across a star from another angle in the sky. We sighted a total of 12 UFO's that night and all of them disappeared. Sometimes, one would disapper then reappear for a second. I believe I have seen another one on my way home from work in Detroit on Saturday July 27, 2002. I was driving North bound on the expressway I-75 between 3:15-3:30AM. I was heading towards Troy area when I flipped my visor up to look at the sky and there it was! The low hovering aircraft was square shaped like a reversed minivan. It looked blimp sized, but it also looked like a cut out shape in the sky like it shouldn't even be there! I am guessing that the object was almost 700 feet long (about 3 Boeing 777 put together); height was probably 500 feet. It was nearly 8 stories up in the sky. How am I supposed to see this object so clearly when the sky is misty!?? The whaleish-gray colored UFO had a light blue glow around it. When I focused my attention on the sparks of light coming from behind the object, it disappeared. It couldn't have been in the sky for more than 3 or 4 seconds. It was moving eastbound at an extremely fast speed! I know what a meteor looks like because I witnessed the meteor shower we had over a month ago. At first, I was trying to convince myself that it was a reflection in my mirror and I just saw a shooting star. When I read the Flint Journal the next day, I discovered that a similar sighting was seen in Washington. I am now convinced that I must have seen it too. This wasn't a meteor or a shooting star. It was something else. The article in the Flint Journal stated that two F- 16 jets from Andrews Air Force Base were scrambled early Friday after radar detected a unknown aircraft in the Washington area. The time was 1:00AM when the Air force jet was chasing it but it just left them in the dust at speeding over 6000 miles an hour. I realized that their is a 3 hour time difference between Michigan (ahead) and Washington. Sounds incredible doesn't it? Today, CNN claims the government is allowing some aircraft to float around the USA and some people might mistake it for a UFO. Of course, they gave no details. Sounds like a cover up to me. ******* From: FYI <FYI@info.com> Subject: FW: Michigan UFO Incident: JUL 29th 2002 [JUL 27th 2002] Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 07:55:54 GMT From: luna@luna.virtunova.net [mailto:luna@luna.virtunova.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:34 PM To: thehickmanreport@prodigy.net Subject: Michigan UFO Incident: JUL 29th 2002 [JUL 27th 2002] Dear LUNA subscribers, today we need your help. We are looking for UFO witnesses which have been in the near of Davison and Troy, Michiganon Jul 29th 2002 [Jul 27th 2002], about 3am. At that time, a young woman watched a spectacular UFO sighting. Please click the link below to read the LUNA UFO report written by the only known witness at that moment, Mrs. Cora Smilkovich Taylor. http://luna.virtunova.net/mi-in/report_2002_07_28_2657.html We believe that there are more witnesses, so please contact the LUNA United States office at: luna@luna.virtunova.net if you know people who have seen the same phenomena as Mrs. Smilkovich Taylor. Thanks for your support and keep your eyes open. Best LUNA United States Staff Steve Marzi, Webmaster
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:43:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:16:30 -0400 Subject: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & INQUIRIES WITH D.C. A.N.G. On July 31, 2002, a brief question and answer session was made by telephone with Captain Sheldon Smith, P.A.O. of the DC Air National Guard at (202) 685-9862. Captain Smith was asked what exact time NORAD advised Andrews AFB & the 113th ANG of the July 26th unidentified radar track. "NORAD sent notification some time before 2 a.m.," Captain Smith said, "but we don't normally give out that operational information." He was then asked what time the two ANG F-16s were dispatched and what time were the jets were airborne and Captain Smith said: "They went up sometime before 2 but we can't give out the exact info." Captain Smith was then asked what time the jets were in the estimated locality of the unidentified radar track and he said: "That info is not available to me, the best source for it is NORAD." He was also asked if Andrews AFB also had the radar target on their scopes and he said: "I also don't know if Andrews had it it on radar or not." Captain Smith was asked if he knew if the unidentified radar track was visible on radar sensors simultaneous to the appearance of the jets scrambled after it and he said: "That is not something we normally talk about." The D.C. Air National Guard spokesman was also asked if the F-16 jets scrambled to investigate the unidentified radar target were on "afterburner" at any time during their investigation or if they were flying at a low elevation and he said: "I don't know. Unfortunately on these missions, NORAD has more info than we do." Captain Smith was asked if the F-16 jets on a flight path above Waldorf, Maryland during the episode and he said: "I don't have that info." I asked Captain Smith if I could prepare the questions again for him in an email so that would give him a better chance to research the issues. He furnished me with E-mail contact information and I posed some additional questions. Responding to the E-mail query to Captain Smith, DCNG Public Affairs Officer Phyllis E. Phipps-Barnes replied by informing that Captain Smith had left on vacation. She then furnished the following releasable statement concerning the July 26 incident: "Two F-16 jets from Andrews Air Force Base were scrambled approximately 1 a.m. hours July 26, 2002, after radar detected an unknown aircraft. The unidentified aircraft's track subsequently faded from the radar. The F-16s investigated, found nothing out of the ordinary, and returned to base." Phyllis E. Phipps-Barnes then said: "For operational security reasons, NORAD will not discuss specific details regarding our air defense measures or changes in those measures. NORAD takes all potential threats to North American airspace security seriously, and continuously evaluates the threat and the overall air defense posture. This event, like the more than 400 other airspace security events NORAD has responded to since Sept. 11, 2001, will be assessed for potential threats to North American airspace." She was thanked for her response and then asked why similar information concerning an event 1-month earlier involving a navigational error made by the pilot of a small plane approaching the Flight Restriction Zone has been made available while similar information concerning the the July 26th incident is withheld. She was also provided with a timeline of the June 19th 'pilot navigation error' occurrence courtesy of ABC news. In response to this message, the DCNG Public Affairs Officer said: "Sir, I have given you the information I am authorized to give. We receive our guidance from NORAD; I suggest you raise your questions with the folks there." On Friday, August 2, an additional message was received from U.S. Army Major Barry Venable, a Public Affairs officer with NORAD. What follows below are the comments provided by Maj. Venable: "To answer your question, since Sep 11, 2001 NORAD has publicly released and/or acknowledged two timelines-one detailing our response to the Sep 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and the other with an incident last fall in Tampa, FL when a young man flew his small airplane into a building. We did not release a timeline with regard to the incident you cite, nor for any other event of the 400-plus airspace security events NORAD has responded to since Sep 11, 2001. The timeline you provided in your latest inquiry was a news media report which merely cites "Defense Department" sources. I leave it to your judgment whether or not this information is credible, yet it is without a doubt not "official." "We do not plan on releasing any further information about this event. To date, we have acknowledged that we scrambled fighters to investigate an unknown aircraft detected by radar. The unknown aircraft faded from our radar screens before the fighters arrived. The fighters investigated the area where the unknown radar track was located, detected no other suspicious activity or aircraft, and returned to base. At no point in their mission did the fighters "chase" anything. We did acknowledge that we did not know what aircraft caused the radar signature. "Any unknown air activity is potentially threatening-that's why we respond. There are a number of explanations for this incident. Public discussion of these possibilities or our determination of actual cause does not serve the public interest. Doing so might jeopardize our ability to provide an effective air defense posture by revealing capabilities or limitations to adversaries. "We continue to assess this event-as well as more than over 400 other potentially threatening events since Sep 11-and will factor it into our overall threat evaluation and air defense posture. Despite the unfortunate publicity arising from the sensational yet unproven eyewitness account of "blue objects in the sky," NORAD is treating this event in the serious context of providing an effective air defense for North America. "Thanks for your interest. Despite the apparent intrigue, there really isn't more to be said about this event." ADDITIONAL COMMENT It was previously noted that far more information regarding an earlier less sensational incident was made available. After a June 19th intrusion near D.C. airspace, in which a small private aircraft ventured briefly near the restricted flight zone due to a navigational error made by the pilot, information was made available to CNN that the off-course aircraft of June 19th entered the outer edge of the expanded Flight Restriction zone around Washington D.C. about 7:59 p.m. Further, a June 21, 2002 New York Times article by Eric Schmitt reports that Air Traffic controllers in Baltimore first spotted the light aircraft heading to Washington just before 8:00 p.m. This revelation informs us of a specific time the June 19th plane was first 'spotted' while we have been denied information on when the July 26th UFO target was first spotted. From the New York Times article we are also made aware of the detection method used to spot the June 19th plane; that being Air Traffic Controllers at a Baltimore, Maryland air tower. Meanwhile, similar information relevant to detection location or sensor as per the July 26th UFO target was withheld. Further, ABC News was informed that the June 19 plane "skirted" the smaller permanent restricted airspace at 10,300 feet inside the TFR zone. While the flight elevation of the erring pilot was made available, NORAD and others involved stress the need to withhold the elevation of the UFO target of July 26 due to "operational security concerns" While Major Venable stresses that the timeline of events for the June 19th 'erring pilot' episode was not the result of an official release, it is important to note that far more information was made available concerning that event from which a timeline was constructed by various news agencies. This might also indicate the absence of interest in the current UFO-target case by these same news media agencies who often refer to internal sources, some of whom may have contributed to the June 19th data. Creation of a timeline regarding the July 26 UFO target incident is more complicated because vital information that may or may not correlate with the claims of UFO eyewitness near Waldorf, MD is not being released. Filed, August 3, 2002 Kenny Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Roswell Proof Website Launched From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:36:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:22:23 -0400 Subject: Roswell Proof Website Launched My Website on the Roswell incident is up and running: www.roswellproof.homestead.com Some highlights: A graphic of the two key phrases in the Ramey message -- this is all you need to see to forever dismiss a balloon explanation: www.roswellproof.homestead.com/critical_phrases.html My rendition of the _complete_ Ramey teletype message, including graphics and a detailing of my methodology in attacking it: www.roswellproof.homestead.com/reconstruct.html www.roswellproof.homestead.com/methodology.html Summary of the Roswell case (parts still under construction): www.roswellproof.homestead.com/roswellsummary.html The largest compilation ever of UFO reports from the New Mexico area for June/July 1947: www.roswellproof.homestead.com/NM_UFO_reports.html The largest compilation ever of newspaper accounts of the Roswell incident -- over 40 news stories from July 1947. www.roswellproof.homestead.com/press_coverage.html Press stories of the military debunking campaign run immediately after Gen. Ramey's weather balloon story utilizing weather balloons and radar targets. Over 40 more news stories and many photos. Includes coverage of other radar target crashes reported by the press and other weather balloon stories associated with the 1947 UFO wave. www.roswellproof.homestead.com/military_debunk.html Largest collection of background information on Gen. Ramey himself, including his connection to the debunking of UFOs in 1947 and 1952. Includes a little-known AP story of Ramey on CBS TV August 3, 1952, immediately after the Gen. Samford/Ramey press conference of July 29, 1952 debunking the Washington radar/visual sightings. www.roswellproof.homestead.com/ramey_info.html www.roswellproof.homestead.com/ramey_1952.html [Note: 50th Anniversary today of Ramey's TV appearance!] Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg's activities in connection with Roswell (he was the addressee of Ramey's telegram): www.roswellproof.homestead.com/vandenberg.html This includes a link to an extremely rare 1947 news story of Dr. Vannevar Bush denying knowledge about the flying disks, even though his Joint Research & Development Board met suddenly with Vandenberg and Gen. Curtis LeMay on the morning of July 8, 1947, just a few hours before the Roswell base press release. Includes another link to images from Vandenberg's appointment book and daily log highlighting the cancellation of a previous meeting and replacing it with the 2-1/2 hour meeting of the JRDB. www.roswellproof.homestead.com/bush_article.html www.roswellproof.homestead.com/vandenberg_logs.html And what discussion of Vannevar Bush would be complete without Wilbert Smith's collection of documents from 1950/51 clearly fingering Bush as heading up a highly secretive UFO study group within the Research & Development Board looking into the "modus operandi" of the saucers? (Some of these you've probably never seen before.) www.roswellproof.homestead.com/smith_papers.html A compendium of Brig. Gen. Arthur Exon's statements on Roswell, including Roswell being "the recovery of a craft from space": www.roswellproof.homestead.com/exon.html The Air Force's snubbing of Brig. Gen. Thomas Dubose's statements on Roswell (includes Dubose's affidavit): www.roswellproof.homestead.com/dubose.html Many, many affidavits from other witnesses. (see home page) Major Jesse Marcel's post-war service evaluations, back online and revised with additional information (please note the praise Marcel received from Col. Blanchard and Gen. Ramey _after_ Roswell): www.roswellproof.homestead.com/marcel_evaluations.html Not Roswell, but other research back online concerning the so- called "Nellis UFO" military video of 1994: www.roswellproof.homestead.com/nellis_main.html Much more, and more to come. I have tried to make this a centralized location for Roswell documentation that is generally scattered to the four winds. So come in and nose around. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 HBCC UFO Sightings Continue From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 23:15:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:28:33 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO Sightings Continue Hi List, As you may know things seem to have picked up for some reason. I really do not have time to post, or re-write many of the reports, plus I still have a large amount still to take from audio-tape from the past few months. Tonight's report comes from Penticton, British Columbia. I grabbed a quick copy from the email and pasted below. I wrote for more information, such as the phone number in hopes to be able to call them and discuss their sighting. But at least this gives some idea to what they were seeing. I removed a lot from this email report, due to not giving any clue to the person who reported this sighting, as they hold a good position in the government and an association to the RCMP. Now just to let you know the numbers of reports I have collected since February 1, 2002 - I know, I still can't believe it myself, but - the total is 72 reported sightings to HBCC UFO. I am not really sure, but I think only a handful were before 2002, the rest are all for 2002. Just in the last few days, I have received a total of 10 sighting reports. (Sightings in the last few days, or so, Burns Lake, - 1, Terrace - 3, Penticton - 1, Port Simpson - 1, Prince Rupert - 1, Houston - 1, Kispiox Valley - 1, Telkwa - 1,. Why? Who knows - but it is keeping me very busy. Take care Brian HBCC UFO Penticton Sighting Report: My brother has a telescope so we got a closer look at this light, we were shocked at what we seen. It was round with smaller little lights on the bottom side and spinning very fast, it doesn't make a sound.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 EW: More Mars Meteorite Evidence For Alien Life From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 02:42:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:30:43 -0400 Subject: EW: More Mars Meteorite Evidence For Alien Life -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : Web Log August 4, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com -------------------------------------------------- MORE MARS METEORITE EVIDENCE FOR ALIEN LIFE alternative science image: Life on Mars http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewLifeOnMarsThumb.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - The latest study by NASA's Mars meteorite team says that 25 percent of its magnetic material can only be explained by ancient bacteria on Mars. "One-quarter of the magnetite crystals embedded in the carbonates in Martian meteorite ALH84001 require the intervention of biology to explain their presence," says a recent NASA Press Release. The NASA scientists now say that magnetite produced by bacteria on Earth bears a striking resemblance to crystals believed to be produced by Martian bacteria. The new study is consistent with observations made by NASA's robotic Mars missions. Mars Global Surveyor found that the planet once had a magnetic field, and Mars Odyssey recently uncovered large reservoirs of water ice. The Allan Hills Meteorite received worldwide attention in 1995, when NASA announced it contained strong evidence for life on Mars. The meteorite has been debated ever since, with many in the scientific community saying NASA spoke too soon. Despite popular notions of ET and the enigmas at Cydonia, life beyond Earth has never been verified. -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES 02-Aug-02 Researchers Publish Latest Results in Continuing Search for Ancient Martian Life ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/pressrel/2002/02-150.txt (NASA) JSC HOUSTON - In the latest study of a 4.5 billion-year- old Martian meteorite, researchers have presented new evidence confirming that 25 percent of the magnetic material in the meteorite was produced by ancient bacteria on Mars... "Our best working hypothesis is that early Mars supported the evolution of bacteria that share several traits with magnetotactic bacteria on Earth" 03-Aug-02 Possible Evidence of Martian Bacteria http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/02/2221234 (Slashdot) - NASA issued a very interesting press release today. It highlights a recent study that compared tiny magnetite crystals in the Allan Hill meteorite to similar magnetite crystals that are created here on Earth by bacteria. The study uses fairly strict criteria to determine that 25% of the magnetite content of the meteorite was created by ancient Martian bacteria. -------------------------------------------------- GET THE WALLPAPER Download a 600x600 version of Life on Mars for your Desktop. This artwork is based on scanning electron microscope images of the Alan Hills meteorite ALH84001. http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewLifeOnMars.jpg -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR August 4, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Argentine Cows Mutilated 4000 Meters Above Sea From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:05:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:34:56 -0400 Subject: Argentine Cows Mutilated 4000 Meters Above Sea SOURCE: El Tribuno (Provincial news section), Salta, Argentina DATE: Sunday, August 4, 2002. Santa Victoria Oeste/ Strange discoveries and explosions Mutilated Cows Found at 4.000 Meters Above Sea Level A Saltan geologist provides a curious account on strange deaths and demands an investigation . Juan Antonio Abarz=FAa -- El Tribuno Saltan geologist Carlos Taballione specializes in high-altitude highways and has carried out such tasks for the United Nations in different parts of the country. He demanded a thorough, credible and serious investigation to uncover the enigma of Argentina's "mutilated cows", which recently flared up again in the Saltan community of La Troja, where six cows were found missing their eyes, tongues and flesh and hide covering the lower jawbones, although the rest of their bodies was intact and gave off no odor whatsoever, and had not been caused by carrion animals or insects. Taballione told "El Tribuno" that: "as soon as information on similar events began to appear throughout the republic, I recalled an event which occurred in August 2000 and which I witnessed. While involved in laying out the new Santa Victoria- La Quiaca road at the request of the Secretary of Mining and the local municipality, I found half a dozen lifeless animals in an esplanade located a little over 4,000 meters high. All of them showed the same signs which have characterized the unsolved mystery of "cattle mutilations". They had no eyes, tongue, flesh or hide on the lower jawbone. Nor did they issue any odor or attract flies. Condors, the world's most powerful winged predators, and which can cosume a large bovine in less than two hours, seemed to ignore the carcasses. And not only that: I also recalled that in the recent cases and the one I witnessed, there were further similarities--the beasts appeared to have been slain simultaneously and did not make a single movement after hitting the ground. There were no tracks around them save their own, interrupted by a sudden and instant death. It was as if they hadn't even lost balance before dying. The left no signs of erratic movement, nor signs of a struggle for their existence. But there were even stranger things. All of the animals fell in the same direction, on their right flank, heads pointed toward the north and forming an almost perfect circumference of 100 meters in diameter." Taballione, 55, noted that on said occasion he was "accompanied by a backwoodsman, who was startled by the discovery but attributed the deaths to lightining, which is very common in Abra La Apacheta, where we were standing. The man's reasoning was questionable," he added, "beacuse when lightning strikes, it falls in a given location and not over a wide area. It is therefore impossible for one of these meteorological phenomenons to cause the death of 6 animals over such a wide area. Still less to think that they were slain by individual lightning bolts. However, after taking a few snapshots, I continued my work and never forgot the incident, which represents a mystery I've never been able to solve." The geologist noted that "the challenge to really find out what happened in these cases has spurred me on even more, now that similar claims have been made everywhere. The carnivorous mouse hypothesis put forward by SENASA is groundless: rodents are vegetarians, and the Puna [high Andean upland--SC] is not inhabited by the "red-muzzled" species to which the official explanation has ascribed the deaths. Nor are vamipre bats to blame, and the theory put forward by my colleague Domingo Jakulica--who attributes lethal properties to the saliva of the flying hematophage Desmodus Rotundus -- can be rejected, at least in cases occuring in the Puna. The only way to dispel all doubts is to conduct a thorough investigation. I don't mean to say that the Chupacabras or aliens will be found behind all of this, but the fact is that the nervous explanations given to justify the natural are so weak that they make those who believe in alien intervention or fantastic predators seem credible," he concluded. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Alicia Rossi and Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Argentine Man Sees UFO Hospitalized In Shock From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:23:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:38:52 -0400 Subject: Argentine Man Sees UFO Hospitalized In Shock SOURCE: Diario La Arena (La Pampa, Argentina) DATE: August 4, 2002 LOCAL RESIDENT CLAIMS SEEING UFO; HOSPITALIZED IN SHOCK. **Cellphone snatched by unidentified object** JACINTO ARAUZ (C)--A well-known resident of Jacinto Arauz was hospitalized late Friday in a state of shock after having had a strange experience in a field he owns, and which he was only able to discuss in early hours this morning. Police officer Marcelo Alarcon told this correspondent's office that on Friday afternoon, Raul Dorado, 64, was touring the field located 5 Km northeast of the town, as he is accustomed to do. The man explained to the police that "he heard loud sound on two occasions, like a whirlwind, which drew his attention. The third time, he saw something he describes as a green circle with three legs hovering over him. " At that moment, Dorado fell to the ground, and according to his story, he carried a shotgun, binoculars and a cellphone, the latter which was "taken from his hand, and he could clearly see being sucked into the object, which was apparently at low altitude, being unable to specify how high it was. After the object disappeared toward the east, Dorado remained at the location for an hour before being able to rise and walk back to his car, returning to town in a state of shock. He was barely able to say a word, using signs and writing. Aided by his wife and neighbors, the man was admitted to the local hospital where he was cared for by Dr. Ana Maria Lazaric. In her preliminary examination, Lazaric was able ot verify that the ring finger on the left hand had a puncture mark on the upper part of the nail, in the cuticle. Dorado could not say if it had occured in his routine duties or at the moment, but he did say that he was experiencing sever pain in that hand. The man, who was only able to regain speech in early hours of the morning, said it is the first time that such a thing has happened to him. The police, at the command of the General Acha Regional Unit, commanded by inspector sheriff Carlos Munoz, is preparing an intervention with the Second Court of General Acha, presided by Judge Alvaro Reyes. Meanwhile, Dorado's wife said yesterday that her husband was doing rather well at home and that he had fully regained his speech. The woman asked that her husband be granted some time to process the event he has lived through. [Mrs. Dorado] said that it was hard to describe the experience, because when [Mr. Dorado] reached the house "he hugged me and wept, unable to speak." She also maintained that her husband, who was calmer now, admits to having intended to fire his shotgun at the object, but was unable to. And regarding the puncture on his finger, it was on the hand in which he held the cellphone. "It happened when it was taken away from him. Some of his fingers still hurt and he feels an itching sensation." Following this incident, Deputy Sheriff Daniel Rosane, who is on furlough but willingly made himself available for questions, reported that he has since dialed the rancher's cellphone a few times. It would ring and then made the typical sound of when buttons are being pressed to dial. In a subsequent attempt, he discovered that the phone was answered, but only heard breathing sounds. In later attempts, the operator reported that the phone was either off or out of range. ================================================== Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Klass From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:35:50 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:44:43 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Klass >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:06:48 -0700 >Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Follow Up With Maj. Snyder >Major Snyder, Command Spokesman for the U.S. Space Command and >NORAD, was contacted by E-mail on Monday morning, July 29 for >brief follow up to our Saturday afternoon telephone conversation >concerning the unidentified aircraft approaching Washington D.C. >on July 26 as detected by NORAD radar. <snip> >CONCLUSION >NORAD and Maj. Snyder have not been prompt in releasing a >timeline of events or answers to specific information concerning >a UFO radar target of July 26, 2002, and have advised that this >information will not be released due to 'operational security.' >As noted above, Major Snyder said: "In none of the situations >we're involved in do we release the info you asked about." >However, as illustrated in this report, the same information was >indeed released regarding the June 19, 2002 case of a pilot >making a navigational error near the nation's capitol. >Filed, >July 30, 2002 >KENNY YOUNG >-- >UFO Research >http://home.fuse.net/ufo Dear Kenny Young: Based on your report. I suspect (repeat suspect) that NORAD is embarrassed that its radar controllers mistook a temperature- inversion caused radar blip for a real target. Phil Klass
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 16:49:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:50:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:10:16 -0500 >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark >Lorenzen writes, "Rio de Janeiro's Ultimate Hora on February 21 >[1958] reported that at least a hundred individuals had >witnessed the sighting of the object..... The Brazilian press >recorded interviews of many witnesses to the sighting, both >military and civilian. The case of the IGY pictures remained on >the front pages of Rio de Janeiro's newspapers for fully seven >days." All the while, note, _no_disconfirming_testimony_ - >which would have been easily enough obtained (and cited in >every debunking account since) if it were the childish hoax and >the Brazilian Navy the incompetent clods John wants us to >believe in - came to light, even when intense newspaper >competition surely had reporters out looking for it. An expose >of a hoax that had fooled the military and the government would >have sold a whole lot of papers. As an intellectual exercise, Jerry might like to name any expose of a UFO hoax which *has* sold a whole lot of papers. >For all his huffing and puffing, John has yet to produce the >name of a _single_individual_ who, while in a position to see >the UFO Barauna photographed, stated that he saw nothing. For all his huffing and puffing Jerry has yet to produce the name of a single individual who stated that they saw the UFO that Barauna photographed - apart from his two associates ... >And while you're at it, maybe you can explain to us why you keep >referring to named witnesses as "friends" of Barauna. First of >all, what is your evidence that they were friends? Or in pelican >prose do such distinctions as "friends" as opposed to >"acquaintances" - if they were even that - somehow get lost in >the interest of a useful smear? Do you know that Barauna and the >quoted witnesses had a social relationship beyond shipmates? "I [Barauna] am a member of the Icarai Club for Submarine [presumably this is a rather over-literal translation of the Portuguese for "underwater" rather than a reference to actual submarines - JR] Hunting, and our group was invited for the last trip ... I was aboard together with the following members of my group: Amilar Viera Filho, captain of our team... Jose Teobaldo Viegas ... Mauro Andrada ... and Aloisio ..." Admittedly, this doesn't necessarily prove they were bosom buddies, but it does suggest that the "had a social relationship beyond shipmates", all being members of the same underwater exploration club. I think it is reasonable to describe them as "friends" of Barauna. >On the basis of what we've seen so far, it is safe to conclude >that the Trindade incident remains a strong UFO case, "solvable" >only to those whose will to disbelieve is sufficiently grave to >diminish their ability to draw reasonable conclusions from >available evidence. Until you produce real evidence, you are >wasting our time. I would tend to agree that the Trindade case is a good case, but it is not made any stronger by the unsupported assertion that there were 49 (or 150) witnesses. I do not know whether it was a hoax or not. If it was not a hoax I do not know what it may have been. I am not convinced by the light aircraft explanation by Martin Powell on the website referenced by Luis Gonzalez-Manso. I think the distance from any suitable airstrip is a major problem. If it *was* a hoax there is nothing inconsistent with it being one perpetrated by Barauna and his colleagues from the Icarai Underwater Club. This possibility can be totally eliminated by the production of one directly quoted witness, not associated with Barauna. It may be there in those tantalisingly untranslated Brazilian newspapers. Until such a quotation does surface, I shall bring my end of this discussion to a close. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Plans For Bonnybridge UFO Park From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 18:17:20 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:54:40 -0400 Subject: Plans For Bonnybridge UFO Park Source: Sunday Herald - Glasgow Scotland http://www.sundayherald.com/26703 Stig *** Sunday Herald - 04 August 2002 Madness or moneyspinner? Laying plans for Bonnybridge UFO park Businessman seeks investor to cash in on alien 'sightings' By Magin McKenna ** It may sound like something out of an episode of The X-Files but at least one entrepreneur is taking Bonnybridge's reputation as Britain's UFO capital seriously. Gerrit Wals, owner of the Hafton Castle Hotel in Dunoon, has drawn up plans for a multi- million alien theme park near the town. He believes that if his futuristic concept -- which he has dubbed the Rest-A-Round complex -- ever becomes reality it could bring in almost =A3176 million every year. Wals wants to use Scotland's UFO phenomenon as a vehicle for exploring the nation's culture, history and future. Visitors would be transported in spacecraft-like shuttles to various amusement complexes ranging from an Olympic stadium to a casino housed in buildings modelled after flying saucers. There would also be an indoor golf stadium, Highland games and bagpipers, all protected from the Scottish weather. 'What I see, I can create,' says Wals, who is currently looking for an investor to provide between =A3200,000 and =A3300,000 for a feasibility study. 'I can see millions of people coming to this. Tourists are rarely in a situation where they can see the typical things they come to Scotland to see.' Wals has looked at a potential site near Bonnybridge for the park, but is currently tracking investors. He needs the =A3200m to =A3300m for the first phase of the park's infrastructure, but says an investor has offered him the =A380m needed for the second phase. He's not the first businessman to consider the potential of Bonnybridge as a tourist attraction. Town councillor Billy Buchanan started looking at the possibilities of tapping into the UFO phenomenon for tourism reasons two years ago, when he initiated discussions with Helifilms, a company that builds space attractions throughout the world, its latest venture being the Space Academy in Valencia, Spain. Helifilms director Sara Hine estimates that a Bonnybridge attraction, which would work as an informational tourist centre designed to intermingle UFO fact and science fiction, would cost between =A33m and =A34m to build. Financial backing for similar projects outside Britain has come from governments. In Valencia the local and regional governments footed the bill. In the two years since Hine has been discussing the possibilities of developing a similar centre in Bonnybridge with Buchanan, little progress has been made because of a lack of financial support. 'I'm surprised there hasn't been serious funding from local and regional governments,' says Hine . But the attitude might be changing. 'I think that the land has been identified and that they're at the later stages of development,' she says. 'Buchanan rang me a couple of weeks ago to say there had been some renewed financial interest .' Buchanan has been a tireless promoter of Bonnybridge's prime position in the UFO universe since the first of a catalogue of sightings was reported 10 years ago, and has often faced ridicule by his peers and the press. The lowest point came little over five years ago when Buchanan missed a town meeting because he was on holiday and the tabloid press reported that he'd been abducted by an extraterrestrial . Buchanan vehemently denies those stories, calling them a 'load of rubbish'. He emphasises that the Bonnybridge UFO phenomenon could be explained through natural or military explanations. Some people would describe Buchanan as 'colourful'. Aside from his council work, Buchanan also finds time to amass a large collection of Beatles memorabilia . He's published children's books on body- snatching and is currently planning an exhibition that displays locks of hair cut from the heads of famous Americans, including George Washington and Elvis Presley. With overturned boxes taking up most of the floor space, and a desk hidden beneath stacks of paper, Buchanan's office looks like the aftermath of a natural disaster. Luckily, he can always reach his black, antique-style phone, which rings off the hook with constituents complaining about their leaky roofs and flooded backyards. 'My life is more than UFOs,' he explains. 'Water problems and new windows and doors take priority.' But he does see lucrative opportunities. The unemployment rate in Bonnybridge tops 10% and many locals live at or below the poverty line. 'When you're living in an area with a high unemployment rate and there's tremendous possibility to invest in the area, you should pursue that,' Buchanan says. 'Hundreds of thousands of people would be coming to look at a theme park or a UFO information centre. That's very good for Bonnybridge.' Although Buchanan claims that residents have told him of seeing 60,000 unidentified phenomena, the locals don't back up the claims. Rather, many feel embarrassed that their community has been stigmatised as a mecca for the weird. 'Everyone feels he's making a laughing stock out of it,' says John Arnot, a local taxi driver whose route takes him nightly along the dark roads where UFOs have allegedly been spotted. The taxi driver, however, says he has never seen one. 'He's quite a good councillor,' Arnot quickly adds. 'But it's an embarrassment. I can understand him wanting to get things for Bonnybridge, but I don't know where he gets all this UFO stuff from.' Donna Cameron arrived in Bonnybridge from Manchester four years ago to start a family in a quiet neighbourhood known as Green Hill that sits on a large hill overlooking the town. Because of its altitude, Cameron points out that Green Hill provides the best views for miles of the Bonnybridge skies. But she's never seen a UFO in them, either. 'I think sometimes people are embarrassed to say they're from Bonnybridge because of it,' she says. 'It's a shame. I love it up here. It's a really nice community.' ** Copyright =A9 2002 smg sunday newspapers ltd. no.176088
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 'National Geographic' Article On Crop Circles From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 18:59:31 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:03:03 -0400 Subject: 'National Geographic' Article On Crop Circles Source: National Geographic http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0801_020801_cropcircles.html Stig *** Crop Circles: Artworks or Alien Signs? Hillary Mayell for National Geographic News August 2, 2002 ** Mel Gibson's new film, Signs, is reviving public interest in the phenomenon of crop circles. It would be unfair to reveal what it is that's scaring Mel so badly in the world of movies. In the real world, the battle to explain the formations is a torrid wrestling match between artists and people who believe in other-worldly influences. Are the circles an emerging art form: agrarian graffiti, large-scale land art that will be written about in future art history texts as the most remarkable artistic innovation to emerge from the 20th century? Or are they the result of UFO landings or mysterious messages from extraterrestrials? The most curious aspect of the sometimes vitriolic debate is the fact that each group needs the other. Depending on what you believe, crop circle artists make most, if not all, the formations. But without the mystery and the other- worldly possibilities, would anyone be paying attention? Roots in England Crop circles first appeared in the fields of southern England in the mid-1970s. Early circles were quite simple, and simply appeared, overnight, in fields of wheat, rape, oat, and barley. The crops are flattened, the stalks bent but not broken. Wiltshire County is the acknowledged center of the phenomenon. The county is home to some of the most sacred Neolithic sites in Europe, built as far back as 4,600 years ago, including Stonehenge, Avebury, Silbury Hill, and burial grounds such as West Kennet Long Barrow. As the crop circle phenomenon gained momentum, formations have also been reported in Australia, South Africa, China, Russia, and many other countries, frequently in close proximity to ancient sacred sites. Still, each year more than 100 formations appear in the fields of southern England. In 1991, Doug Bower and Dave Chorley came forward and claimed responsibility for the crop circles over the past 20 years or so, and the battle between artists and other-world believers was engaged. "I think Doug Bower is the greatest artist of the 20th century," said John Lundberg, a graphic design artist, Web site creator, and acknowledged circle maker. Bower's work has the earmarks of all new art forms, "pushing boundaries, opening new doors, working outside of the established mediums," Lundberg continued. His group, known as the Circlemakers, considers their practice an art. Lundberg estimates that there are three or four dedicated crop circle art groups operating in the United Kingdom today, and numerous other small groups that make one or two circles a year more or less as a lark. Circlemakers now does quite a bit of commercial work; in early July, the group created a giant crop formation 140 feet (46 meters) in diameter for the History Channel. But they also still do covert work in the dead of night. Evolving Art Formulating a design and a plan, from original concept to finished product, can take up to a week. "It has to be more than a pretty picture. You have to have construction diagrams providing the measurements, marking the center, and so on," said Lundberg. Creating the art is the work of a night. Lundberg said that for an an artist, being a crop formation artist is an interesting place to be. "You think about art in terms of authorship and signature," he said. But circle makers never claim credit for specific formations they created. "To do so would drain the mystery of crop circles," he explained. "The art form isn't just about the pattern making. The myths and folklore and energy [that] people give them are part of the art." Over the last 25 years, the formations have evolved from simple, relatively small circles to huge designs with multiple circles, elaborate pictograms, and shapes that invoke complex non-linear mathematical principles. A formation that appeared in August 2001 at Milk Hill in Wiltshire contained 409 circles, covered about five hectares, and was more than 800 feet (243 meters) across. Two phenomena appear to be pushing the evolving art. To combat a widely promulgated theory that the circles were the result of wind vortices=97essentially mini-whirlwinds=97 crop artists felt compelled to produce ever more elaborate designs, some with straight lines to show that the circles were not a natural phenomenon, said Lundberg. The other impetus is true of all art forms: Artists influence one another, and designs evolve in response to what has been done before. Opposing View Adamantly opposing the crop-circle-as-art-form position are the "croppies"=97researchers of the paranormal and scientists seeking to explain the formations as work that could not possibly be the result of human efforts. The phenomenon has spawned its own science: cereology. Some believers are merely curious, open to the existence of paranormal activity and willing to consider the possibility that at least some of the circles were created by extraterrestrial forces. At the extreme end are what Lundberg calls the "Hezbollah" of believers. Exchanges between acknowledged circle makers and cereologists can be vitriolic in the extreme. But in a curious way, the two groups need one another. The believers propel and sustain interest in the work, beating the drums of extraterrestrial activity on Earth and keeping crop formations in the news. They can also be quite vocal in their denunciations of the admitted artists, charging that they are con men, liars, and agents in government disinformation campaigns. Lundberg's group has been vilified as Team Satan; its members have received stacks of hate mail, and over the years there have been attacks on their cars and property. Skeptics in the media (including this author) are also considered dupes, either too ignorant or narrow-minded to understand an other-worldly phenomenon or active participants in a government conspiracy to keep the masses uninformed. Still, the vast majority of croppies are just people with alternative belief systems. "I think it's a little more played out over here [in the United Kingdom]," said Lundberg. "People are more familiar with the whole phenomenon." Wiltshire's New Economy: Tourism While the relationship between crop artists and cereologists is uneasy, the relationship between artists and farmers is mutually beneficial. Farmers provide the canvas, the artists bring in the tourists. The crop circle season extends from roughly April to harvesting in September, although the best time to make a circle is in mid to late June. When still immature, wheat rises back toward the sun, making a circle look brushed rather than flattened, said Lundberg. How do the local farmers feel waking up to find an entire field of wheat flattened? Crop circles pump millions of pounds into the Wiltshire economy, said Lundberg. The circles are a major tourist attraction, spawning bus tours, daily helicopter tours, T-shirts, books, and other trinkets. The circles draw people who believe the formations have a unique energy. They visit the formations as a sort of spiritual Mecca, to meditate, pray, dance, and commune with worldly spirits. Farmers frequently charge a small fee or have a donation box for people who want to enter the circles. "In 1996 a circle appeared near Stonehenge and the farmer set up a booth and charged a fee," said Lundberg. "He collected 30,000 pounds (U.S. $47,000) in four weeks. The value of the crop had it been harvested was probably about 150 pounds ($235). So, yeah, they're happy." On the question of whether all such circles are human made, Lundberg is perched firmly on the fence. "I don't care," he said. "I have an open mind. It would be great if people could view circles as an art form. But really, to me, as long as they're well made and well crafted, anyone can believe whatever they want to believe." ** =A9 2002 National Geographic Society. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:05:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:05:01 -0400 Subject: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Source: The Toronto Star http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=3Def80d9e9= 32ff883b&pagename=3Dthestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=3DArticle&cid=3D102614392= 4507&call_page=3DTS_Entertainment&call_pageid=3D968867495754&call_pagepath= =3DEntertainment/News&col=3D969483191630 Aug. 4, 2002. 01:00 AM Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles The new movie Signs inspires Web-based agricultural curiosity By Peter Howell If space aliens really are behind crop circles, as the new Mel Gibson movie Signs suggests, then they should be suing us for royalties. We humans have a terrible habit of taking something completely innocent and pure =97 such as extraterrestrials using our cornfields for art projects =97 and exploiting the hell out of it. The wide release this weekend of Signs, the crop-circle thriller from M. Night Shyamalan, sent me scurrying to the Internet to see how other Earthlings have been reacting to these off-world artisans. I was shocked =97 _shocked_ =97 to discover that a good many of us are attempting to cash in. I read on the Swirled News ( http://www.swirlednews.com ), a Web zine dedicated to printing all the news that's fit to swirl, that a caf=E9 called the Silent Circle has just opened in Wiltshire, England, offering nourishment for "the circularly inclined." The eatery is owned and operated by crop-circle researchers Charles and Frances Mallett, who serve up a variety of hot potatoes, filled baguettes, salads and cakes to believers and skeptics alike. The caf=E9 also operates as a crop circle information centre. With such wide excitement greeting its arrival back in June, an overeager tourist managed to slam his rental car into a pole outside. I'm sure the Malletts have the aliens' best interests at heart. Should little gray or green men ever come knocking at their door, they will be given preferred seats, a fine plate of hot spuds and a percentage of the tourist trade action, which has been growing like topsy since the circles first began popping up in the 1970s. Others are less kindly disposed to giving E.T. his due. The makers of the Crop Circle Board Game ( http://www.cropcircleboardgame.co.uk ) are trying to make a crop circus out of the phenomenon, by flogging a sort of scavenger hunt that promises hidden real treasure for players. But the Disney people who are distributing Signs are really taking the circles for a spin, being obviously more interested in pushing their movie than in keeping the faith with the circularly inclined. The studio is running a Web site competition ( http://www.signs.movies.com/sweeps ) called Destination: Unknown, offering all-expenses-paid trips to circle sites this summer. As part of the Signs publicity program, the Mouse House has been distributing a computer-generated photo of Mel Gibson's face cut into a crop circle formation. The gimmick has true "croppies" (also known as "cereologists") worried that Disney might be trying to take the mickey out of them. Exhibiting the kind of skepticism often directed at them, they wonder how Disney could be offering people trips to crop circles, since no one can predict when and where the circles will pop up. Is it possible that Disney is planning to =97 gasp! =97 create its own crop circles? "Could a widely publicized competition really risk the non- arrival of a promised formation for the winners, or the embarrassing appearance of something rather scrappier than winners may expect?" Swirled News asks. "The only solution to this would surely be to ensure that a good formation was available for viewing." Paul Anderson, the director of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network ( http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada ), is among those who think that Disney is up to no good. "I personally doubt they would go to those lengths to promote a single movie ... unless there is a larger agenda afoot to further debunk the whole phenomenon," he writes. (His Web site, incidentally, has a photo of a recent crop-circle appearance in Georgetown, Ont. Canadian circles are far more rustic than British ones.) If it's true that Disney is acting goofy toward the croppies, then the studio has plenty of company. There's all manner of reports on the Web that claim that crop circles are entirely made by the hand of man. The naysayers of the Committee for the Scientific Investigations of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), who publish Skeptical Inquirer magazine ( http://www.csicop.org ), say there's absolutely no mystery about crop circles, no matter what Signs says. Joe Nickell, a senior research fellow for CSICOP, says it's a cinch to press down crops to make circles, since the plants are still green and flexible at this time of year. And the tractor lines left by farmers allow hoaxers to make the circles without leaving incriminating footprints behind. But how does this explain another circle mystery reported by the Swirled News? It seems that sheep in England have started standing around in large circles, and there's photographic evidence to prove it, although it looks like something straight out of Monty Python. This means the sheep are either: (a) bored; (b) controlled by aliens; or (c) attempting to cash in on the crop circle scam themselves. I see another movie in this. Mel, get your agent on the phone pronto. -----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Times Of London Blasted For Hyped Asteroid Story From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:06:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:06:16 -0400 Subject: Times Of London Blasted For Hyped Asteroid Story From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Source: The Toronto Star Sunday August 4 2002 Page A14 London Times Blasted For Hyped Asteroid Story The Universe Terence Dickinson My first real exposure to British newspapers was in 1979 when I was a consultant at the London Planetarium for several weeks. Every evening on my walk back to the hotel, I would stop at one of the city's wonderfully well-stocked newsstands and buy several papers to peruse. Frankly, I was astonished at what I saw. And I'm not talking about the models wearing less clothing than you would ever see in daily newspapers on this side of the Atlantic. It was the blatant, unbridled sensationalism. Savagely critical attitudes about members of the Royal Family shared space with spare-no- details pieces on the sex lives of sports stars and entertainers. The degree of sensationalism varied from subdued in The Times and the Daily Telegraph to outrageous in The Daily Star and The Sun. Of course, all of this was part of my research. I wanted to see how the papers treated space and astronomy sories. The quality varied widely but I noted that, even in science, anything that could be sensationalized was usually hyped to the max. The London-based news agency Reuters used to pick up some of these stories and distribute them world wide. Over the years, I have criticized Reuters in this column for this practice. (Maybe it worked; its astronomy reporting standards seem to be higher in the last few years.) The British papers aren't quite so tough on the Royals these days. But other than that, not much has changed. Just ask NASA astronomer and asteroid expert David Morrison, who last week publicly called the British press "irresponsible and unethical" for reporting that a two-kilo-metre-wide asteroid would collide with the Earth on Feb. 1, 2019, while omitting to mention that the odds of it happening were 100,000 to one. "This kind of thing scares people, especially young people," Morrison said. One chance in 100,000 is not a collision course, he emphasized. More respected British newspapers such as The Guardian, The Independent and the Daily Telegraph all had "asteroid on collision course" stories. But it was an article on the London Times Web site, distributed around the world, that raised the ire of scientists in the United States. Headlined "Space rock on 'collision course'," the story was called "utter rubbish" by Alan Harris of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. When contacted by U.S. reporters, David Whitehouse, Times Web site science editor and writer of the asteroid story, was unapologetic and insisted that his piece was "completely accurate". The background story is that asteroid 2002NT7 was discovered July 9 and two weeks ago was determined by NASA to have about one chance in 100,000 of hitting Earth on Feb. 1, 2019. Using a different analysis method, European analysts gave the odds at 16-in-a-million. Both groups posted data about the asteroid's possible path, margins of error and odds of impact on Web sites intended primarily for other scientists but also available to journalists and the public. This was the information used for the newspaper stories. After those sto ries ran, further orbital analysis by NASA, based on more accurate readings, confirmed what the odds indicated: that the asteroid was not and is not on a collision course with Earth. Terence Dickinson is editor of Skynews magazine and the author of several books for backyard astronomers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 12:40:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:03:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 16:49:57 +0100 >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:10:16 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Clark >>Lorenzen writes, "Rio de Janeiro's Ultimate Hora on February 21 >>[1958] reported that at least a hundred individuals had >>witnessed the sighting of the object..... The Brazilian press >>recorded interviews of many witnesses to the sighting, both >>military and civilian. The case of the IGY pictures remained on >>the front pages of Rio de Janeiro's newspapers for fully seven >>days." All the while, note, _no_disconfirming_testimony_ - >>which would have been easily enough obtained (and cited in >>every debunking account since) if it were the childish hoax and >>the Brazilian Navy the incompetent clods John wants us to >>believe in - came to light, even when intense newspaper >>competition surely had reporters out looking for it. An expose >>of a hoax that had fooled the military and the government would >>have sold a whole lot of papers. >As an intellectual exercise, Jerry might like to name any expose >of a UFO hoax which *has* sold a whole lot of papers. Maybe John ought to take up reading newspapers, one of whose historical functions is to expose as bogus claims - of whatever nature, not excluding UFOs - purporting to be true. Newspapers do that all the time, and in my experience they are particularly fond of disproving (or, failing that, ridiculing) UFO reports. >>For all his huffing and puffing, John has yet to produce the >>name of a _single_individual_ who, while in a position to see >>the UFO Barauna photographed, stated that he saw nothing. >For all his huffing and puffing Jerry has yet to produce the >name of a single individual who stated that they saw the UFO >that Barauna photographed - apart from his two associates ... For all his huffing and puffing, John has yet to produce the name of a single individual who, while in a position to see the UFO Barauna photographed, stated that he saw nothing. I have named witnesses. John has named none, only continued to indulge in innuendo. As I have stated before, innuendo is not evidence, and I take it that John now concedes the point. >>And while you're at it, maybe you can explain to us why you keep >>referring to named witnesses as "friends" of Barauna. First of >>all, what is your evidence that they were friends? Or in pelican >>prose do such distinctions as "friends" as opposed to >>"acquaintances" - if they were even that - somehow get lost in >>the interest of a useful smear? Do you know that Barauna and the >>quoted witnesses had a social relationship beyond shipmates? >"I [Barauna] am a member of the Icarai Club for Submarine >[presumably this is a rather over-literal translation of the >Portuguese for "underwater" rather than a reference to actual >submarines - JR] Hunting, and our group was invited for the last >trip ... I was aboard together with the following members of my >group: Amilar Viera Filho, captain of our team... Jose Teobaldo >Viegas ... Mauro Andrada ... and Aloisio ..." >Admittedly, this doesn't necessarily prove they were bosom >buddies, but it does suggest that the "had a social relationship >beyond shipmates", all being members of the same underwater >exploration club. I think it is reasonable to describe them as >"friends" of Barauna. Oh, really? On what basis? I belong to a variety of organizations - as do most of us, I'm sure - where the people we meet with are not "friends," only persons with shared interests. (In my long experience of this sort of thing, I must say that I recall no instance in which I was asked to collude in a hoax, least of all one directed against a military or government body, much less one that could easily have been exposed.) Typically, most of us who belong to organizations would characterize our fellow members as acquaintances. John has also yet to demonstrate, repeated challenges to do so notwithstanding, that the mere fact of knowing Barauna renders one automatically unsavory. Nor can he cite evidence that Barauna was an untrustworthy or dishonest man who was known to corrupt others. >>On the basis of what we've seen so far, it is safe to conclude >>that the Trindade incident remains a strong UFO case, "solvable" >>only to those whose will to disbelieve is sufficiently grave to >>diminish their ability to draw reasonable conclusions from >>available evidence. Until you produce real evidence, you are >>wasting our time. >I would tend to agree that the Trindade case is a good case, but >it is not made any stronger by the unsupported assertion that >there were 49 (or 150) witnesses. I do not know whether it was a >hoax or not. If it was not a hoax I do not know what it may have >been. I am not convinced by the light aircraft explanation by >Martin Powell on the website referenced by Luis Gonzalez-Manso. >I think the distance from any suitable airstrip is a major >problem. >If it *was* a hoax there is nothing inconsistent with it being >one perpetrated by Barauna and his colleagues from the Icarai >Underwater Club. This possibility can be totally eliminated by >the production of one directly quoted witness, not associated >with Barauna. It may be there in those tantalisingly >untranslated Brazilian newspapers. Until such a quotation does >surface, I shall bring my end of this discussion to a close. The case can be proved a hoax by the production of testimony from someone who was there, in a position to see the Saturn-shaped UFO, and who denied that anything was seen. As hoaxes go, this one should have been, and be, child's play to debunk. That not a shred of contrary evidence has emerged after four a half decades - and, as John commendably acknowledges, no credible, non-UFO explanation for the sighting and photographs has emerged either - speaks to the strength of the case. Not to mention, of course, the several photoanalyses, official and private, that establish that the object in the photographs was large and anomalous. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Thomas Mantell & Peer Review From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 13:35:46 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:06:12 -0400 Subject: Thomas Mantell & Peer Review Good Afternoon All - For those keeping score at home, I have received a package of material from CUFOS containing the documents to which Richard Hall referred. While interesting, I don't think they alter the perception that Mantell chased a balloon. However, I'll add this material to the article about Mantell which will also contain the exact and complete statements of the men in the tower during the attempted intercept and as much information as possible from the accident investigation report. I hope to have all this done in the near future. KRandle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 A Case For Review From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 20:53:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:11:22 -0400 Subject: A Case For Review Good Evening Errol, Kevin, All When I first suggested that I would "post a case for review" I think I was a little naive in as much as I was just going to type one of my case up, scan any relevant documents and away we go. Most of my notes are just that, notes in notepads & etc, and never been typed up fully - us full time employed people often don't have the time for niceties <g> as fully typed-up reports, when we can always just review our notes. Add to that quite a lot of the people that I have spoken to have requested anonymity, so I can't use their cases either. So, after that I thought I would chose a case at random and use that, but as I looked at some of the cases, I thought hmm, maybe this one or that one, so selecting one of my cases for me to be scrutinised has taken a little longer than I first thought. The more I delved the more I realised I would be held to scrutiny just as much as my case, so I thought that I had better choose a case where I can defend any actions & etc. But after a while, I thought, what heck, let the hecklers and skepti-bunkers rip into me as much as they would like, I will just use me trusted elephant hide to deal with them. <g> Then I cogitated. Then Kevin Randle's book, "Project Moondust" turned up on my doormat and I got side-tracked. If you haven't read this then I would heartily recommend it as an excellent read, IMHO you have to read between the lines just as much as there is written <g> If Kevin will allow me, I think he knows a lot more than he could put into print, but since there are sixteen pages of reference material, (bibliography) methinks he is suggesting that you do the footwork doing some reading up & research before you bother him with lots of inane questions. Would I be correct Kevin? Anyway, back to the point, I have now chosen a case that I will be typing-up for review. Well, it is two cases, not one. The reason for this will become apparent when you read them, but let me tease you with the following: Both cases happened within miles of each other (as the crow flies) One case can be reasonably identified (for me it was anyway) and the other case remains an "unknown". When I have finished typing up and scanning etc, I will upload the case as a html document in my webspace and post the text part direct to UpDates with a link to the relevant webpage for you to review any scanned documents & pictures. Sean Jones Kinda looking forward to the fun times ahead
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 CCCRN News: Double Circle/Ring Formation Limehouse From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 20:21:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:13:54 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Double Circle/Ring Formation Limehouse CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 4, 2002 _____________________________ CROP WATCH 2002 UPDATE - DOUBLE CIRCLE / RING FORMATION IN LIMEHOUSE, ONTARIO Additional aerial photos have been added of both the Limehouse and Georgetown formations, courtesy Clynt King (First Nations Environmental Network) and Julia Henderson (The Helicopter Company, with the 'Crop Circle Friendly Chopper'!). In the Limehouse photos, the field had already been cut but formation still visible. Other ground photos were taken by the farmer before field was cut and these will also be posted when available. The farmer had tried to cut out the formation as much as possible, but was only partially successful. Also reports of odd 'flickering lights' and 'buzzing sounds' as well the family dog barking a lot after formation was discovered (July 23). Please continue to temporarily use the copy of the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page here: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject/circlescanada02.html Additional photos here: http://www.HeliTours.ca/Main/Photos_Circles.htm http://www.execulink.com/~tonimartin/ Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field investigations and studies of formations, aerial surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public and the media, in particular during the prime August / September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 CI: 'Tom Corbett' In 'Zippy The Pinhead' From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 14:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:15:48 -0400 Subject: CI: 'Tom Corbett' In 'Zippy The Pinhead' Cydonian Imperative 8-4-02 "Tom Corbett" in "Zippy the Pinhead" by Mac Tonnies See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 33) Related links: http://www.zippythepinhead.com The day after writing the above editorial (which references the alleged conspiratorial implications of the "Tom Corbett" mythos), "Corbett" was mentioned in my favorite comic strip, "Zippy the Pinhead." Cartoonist Bill Griffith satirizes our cultural obsession with oddball trivia; in this case, Griffy, Griffith's alter-ego, confides to Zippy (Griffith's other alter-ego) that although he's sure he's memorized the adventures of his boyhood hero, the exact shape of Corbett's spaceship escapes him. [image] Griffith's strip is an inadvertant commentary on the Mars anomaly community, with Griffy's "real-life" concerns overshadowing Zippy's credulity and sense of bemused wonder. Thanks to Bill Griffith for permission to post "Zippy." For more weirdness, check out Zippy's official website. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 17:13:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:18:51 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD >From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:43:11 -0700 >Subject: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & ANG >INQUIRIES WITH D.C. A.N.G. >On July 31, 2002, a brief question and answer session was made >by telephone with Captain Sheldon Smith, P.A.O. of the DC Air >National Guard at (202) 685-9862. Captain Smith was asked what >exact time NORAD advised Andrews AFB & the 113th ANG of the July >26th unidentified radar track. >"NORAD sent notification some time before 2 a.m.," Captain Smith >said, "but we don't normally give out that operational >information." Well, at least you got some sort of time frame from them that could be used to evaluate witness accounts. The release of the detailed information on the "erring pilot" case might not have been official, but it obviously came from military sources and should be viewed as an alarming breach of security, assuming that the same policies applied to it that the military spokespeople claim apply to the later incident. If my memory is correct, there used to be a regulation that made it a criminal offense for a member of the armed forces to discuss unsolved UFO cases involving the military, but made it OK to talk about cases that had officially been assigned a prosaic explanation. Does anyone know if that regulation or one like it is still in effect? I'm wondering if some such regulation could account for the differences Kenny Young noted in how this case has been handled by the Air Force and how the previous explained incident with the off-course private plane was handled.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Holes In Clouds On History Channel From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:38:09 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:21:15 -0400 Subject: Holes In Clouds On History Channel Stan Friedman wrote: I have had an inquiry from an American who saw something strange in The History Channel Alien Invasion program on Saturday. It was just before introducing a possible relationship between crop circles and stone circles and just before the first mention of Stonehenge. For two seconds you could, supposedly, see a clear pattern in the clouds at the top of the screen, slightly left of center. There was a heavy cloud cover split by a straight line that connected a series of large perfectly round holes in the clouds..... He claims there was no way it could have been natural. The US History Channel isn't shown in Canada. Did anybody on the List, see and perhaps tape, the program? Could have been shown before. It would, I gather, have been very easy to miss because the context would have viewers looking at the ground not the sky. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Aerospace Companies Racing To Copy Anti-Gravity From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 03:17:16 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:23:15 -0400 Subject: Aerospace Companies Racing To Copy Anti-Gravity Source: The Sunday Times via The Halifax Herald - Canada http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2002/08/04/f225.raw.html Stig *** Sunday, August 4, 2002 The Halifax Herald Limited Lighter than air? When a Russian scientist announced he had invented an anti- gravity machine, he was ridiculed. Now aerospace companies are racing to copy his work. By Jonathan Leake The Sunday Times ** London - Evgeny Podkletnov watched in annoyance as clouds of smoke drifted across the laboratory from his colleague's newly lit pipe and clung to his delicate research apparatus. The fumes would mean hours of recalibration, but the smoker was his superior and Podkletnov, a quiet, shy man, felt unable to stop him. Then, in the midst of his annoyance, he spotted something peculiar. As the smoke drifted over his machine it suddenly changed direction, shooting upwards to form a bizarre column. At the time it seemed no more than a curiosity. But that observation, in an obscure university in Finland 10 years ago, would soon change his life and prompt some of the biggest aerospace companies to come knocking at his door. For Podkletnov had unwittingly discovered a device that, if his claims are to be believed, can change gravity itself. From futuristic airliners hanging weightless in the sky to hovering cars held aloft by gravity repulsion, the significance of such a discovery is not hard to fathom for any fan of science fiction. The science fact, though, is a little more complicated. Podkletnov had built his equipment to test superconductivity, the ability of some metal alloys to transmit electricity with no resistance at low temperatures. The kit was basic by current scientific standards: a ceramic disc coated in specially formulated alloys was cooled to -220C and then spun at high speed in a magnetic field. It was important but dull work, and had no apparent link with challenging the forces of gravity. But when Podkletnov observed his columns of smoke he was puzzled enough to investigate. First he suspended a metal ball above the machine, then some silicone and wood. Each time he found that the objects lost about two per cent of their weight above the spinning disc. That wasn't all. Podkletnov found that the anti-gravity effect extended far above the machine, right to the ceiling. Then he went up to the roof and, sure enough, there was a narrow circular beam penetrating through the building which reduced the weight of anything placed in its path. It was as strong there as it was above the machine. His anti-gravity beam, it seemed, had no limit. It extended upwards forever. Podkletnov, a researcher with two doctorates, immediately knew the impact of his discovery. If he had found a way of changing an object's weight, even by a small degree, then the aerospace and transport industries could be revolutionised. Podkletnov was not the first man to dream of the benefits of anti-gravity. More than a century ago H.G. Wells, the writer, suggested that spacecraft might fly to the moon using gravity shields. He had realized that a device that could negate gravity would enable spacecraft to launch without fuel. It followed that planes, ships and even cars could also have their weight reduced, saving on fuel and enabling incredible speeds. Others imagined a more sinister purpose. Nazi Germany devoted serious research to developing an anti-gravity weapon in a programme headed by the Austrian scientist Viktor Schauberger. For the past five decades Schauberger's achievements have remained shrouded in mystery. When the war ended, the invading Americans stripped his laboratories of all machinery and documents and shipped them home. Last year, however, Nick Cook, an aerospace expert at Jane's Defence Weekly - whose book The Hunt for Zero Point describes the history of gravity research - tracked down Schauberger's family and former colleagues. From them he coaxed an extraordinary tale of flying saucers that levitated without fuel and glowed silver and green. Sadly for Schauberger, the machines also apparently all crashed. They had, however, hinted at the power of an undreamt of new technology and within months of the war ending his documents and prototypes were in the hands of engineers at secret U.S. laboratories. Two years after the war the knowledge gleaned from them prompted Nathan Twining, a general in the U.S. air force, to state that America could now build a plane that would defy gravity. Then everything went silent. The world has still never seen a plane that flies without fuel or a spacecraft that can defy gravity. No research papers have been published and official sources deny all knowledge of anti-gravity research before 1990. What could have happened? One logical answer is that anti-gravity research proved fruitless. Cook believes otherwise. Over the past few years he has interviewed dozens of researchers from Lockheed Martin, Boeing and other companies involved in aviation research. His conclusion? That the anti-gravity research programs have continued amid the utmost secrecy. "Someone realized that anti-gravity could be so destructive that it would endanger world peace and decided to keep it secret for a long time," he claims. Could it be, then, that Podkletnov had stumbled on a secret other scientists had been trying to keep quiet for half a century? What is certain is that since his work was released to the public in 1996 some very big names have admitted their enthusiasm. Last week George Muellner, the executive who oversees Phantom Works, Boeing's secretive research organization, told The Sunday Times that "anti-gravity works." He added: "We know it can work but what we don't know is whether it can be useful. The systems we have seen consume too much energy. I believe that there will be a breakthrough but it is a long way away." What Muellner would not talk about was an internal seminar held at Boeing earlier this year in which the researcher Jamie Childress and other senior Phantom Works executives described the potential of anti-gravity research. Childress, who has been in contact with Podkletnov, concluded: "It is plausible that gravity modification is real." He warned that, if it were proven, the aerospace industry would experience a "gold rush" that would alter Boeing's entire business. The story is similar at NASA. It has commissioned a $4.5-million study that will aim to replicate Podkletnov's work. Mark Millis, head of NASA'S breakthrough propulsion program at the Glenn space centre in Cleveland, confirms he is particularly interested in Podkletnov's recent claim that he has generated a beam that can exert a force 1,000 times more powerful than Earth's gravity. Podkletnov's device, built with Giovanni Modanese, a respected Italian physicist, could be the basis for launching anything from spacecraft to missiles. Millis, like Boeing, emphasizes the peaceful uses of such technology, but both accept that it could have a darker purpose. Such a beam could, for example, be projected against an aircraft, satellite or missile, knocking it off course or smashing it apart from huge distances. Like Boeing, NASA has been trying to bring Podkletnov and his equipment to America, but has been blocked by Russian laws banning the transfer of such sensitive technology. NASA may, however, have more of a head start than it is admitting. It emerged recently that in 1993 the advanced concepts office at the Marshall Space Flight Center received a paper written by Ning Li and Douglas Torr, both respected physicists, who knew nothing of Podkletnov but like him described how rotating superconductors could alter gravity. NASA immediately set up a program to study the phenomenon which has continued ever since. Since 1996, following the surge of media attention that greeted his research, Podkletnov has been a near-recluse. One day all may be revealed. Boeing, NASA and BAE are taking his principles seriously enough to challenge our most basic understanding of gravity. It could be that the very force that binds us to the ground could be harnessed to carry us to the stars. ** Copyright =A9 2002 The Halifax Herald Limited
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:13:42 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:54:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 01:44:59 +1000 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:42 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >Hi Bob! I'm just curious! :) >Do you do actual investigations? Yup. Or do you just mean research? Nope. >Do you get paid to do it? Never made a dime on UFOs (or IFOs, for that matter). >Or do you just do it voluntarily? Nope, I've been ordered to do it by the M.I.B. >Or are you an Author? Not at the moment. I've written some published things about the subject, but unfortunately never for cash. By the way, most serious scientific research in the world is done by people as part of their career, jobs, businesses, etc. Nothing wrong with that, most wouldn't get done otherwise. I guess that makes me pure, right? Or is it just retired? How about you? <snip> >>You are refusing to admit that a misperception of what you >>call, This radical magnitude occurs". We have more than 50 >>years of IFOs to disprove this. >And of course one could argue conversely that there are possibly >over 26,000 years of UFO evidence if you study the snapshots >of the past from the Artists who recorded sightings of flying >craft, lights and stories of them. I'll take snapshots with a camera, please. Clear skies, Bob Young M.I.B. - saving the World from the scum of the Universe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:47:19 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 06:35:57 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates >From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:35:50 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:06:48 -0700 >>Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Follow Up With Maj. Snyder >>Major Snyder, Command Spokesman for the U.S. Space Command and >>NORAD, was contacted by E-mail on Monday morning, July 29 for >>brief follow up to our Saturday afternoon telephone conversation >>concerning the unidentified aircraft approaching Washington D.C. >>on July 26 as detected by NORAD radar. <snip> >Based on your report. I suspect (repeat suspect) that NORAD is >embarrassed that its radar controllers mistook a temperature- >inversion caused radar blip for a real target. As Richard Hall has observed we should not be so quick to rush to judgement on the case until and unless we interview all of the witnesses While talking to NORAD is interesting and they did indicate some unidentified craft was seen enough on radar to generate a scramble even more interesting would be the FAA radar records that *might* or might not show the F-16s actually chasing some unidentified track perhaps longer then what the official NORAD person actually has knowledge of. Whenever you hear stories about what the spokesman/woman is saying remember, from around August of 1980 until its declassification, the USAF endlessly denied that the Stealth Fighter existed, yet we all know now that it did. Point being that spokespeople are generally last on the list to know anything, especially if it was something classified, or the subject matter had a classified portion to it. If it did indeed have a classified side to it, you can bet the Major would not be the one unloading it. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 Skeptibunkers And Crop Circles From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:55:59 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 06:47:03 -0400 Subject: Skeptibunkers And Crop Circles According to skeptibunker logic and pattern over the years, by virtue of the fact that the interesting fiction movie 'Signs' is highly popular, by their logic we should expect sightings of green 7 foot aliens and crop circles to increase in the next 2-4 weeks. Because everything is explained away and caused by some proasic stimulus, say a TV show or movie. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:14:47 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 06:53:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:13:42 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 01:44:59 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:42 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>Hi Bob! I'm just curious! :) >>Do you do actual investigations? >Yup. >>Or do you just mean research? >Nope. >>Do you get paid to do it? >Never made a dime on UFOs (or IFOs, for that matter). >>Or do you just do it voluntarily? >Nope, I've been ordered to do it by the M.I.B. I thought so! ;) >>Or are you an Author? >Not at the moment. I've written some published things about the >subject, but unfortunately never for cash. >By the way, most serious scientific research in the world is >done by people as part of their career, jobs, businesses, etc. >Nothing wrong with that, most wouldn't get done otherwise. >I guess that makes me pure, right? Or is it just retired? >How about you? I'm just a Space Cadet who's always held a deep fascination of the paranormal, UFOs & ETs. I spend way too much time reading & contemplating these subjects. As I've said before, I really have no reason to be so sure that these things exist, yet I've always believed, even as a little kid! I've never (consciously) witnessed anything anomalous regarding UFO/ETs. I have had some strange dreams etc, particularly when I was a youth. But only a hypnotherapist could assist me on this! I was curious as to why a Skeptic (assuming you are a Skeptic, Bob), would conversely spend as much time & effort to disprove & deny their existence. Have you ever wondered and self-examined why you are so determined to disprove them? Have you ever had weird dreams, relating to UFO's/ET's or missing time, Bob? Could it be possible that we are both abductee's? My sub-conscious memories leading me to search for the truth as my brain (left side) is quite willing to know, whilst your brain (left side) denies the truth (maybe for good reasons) and tries to bury the experience deeper in your sub-conscious mind? ><snip> >>>You are refusing to admit that a misperception of what you >>>call, This radical magnitude occurs". We have more than 50 >>>years of IFOs to disprove this. >>And of course one could argue conversely that there are possibly >>over 26,000 years of UFO evidence if you study the snapshots >>of the past from the Artists who recorded sightings of flying >>craft, lights and stories of them. >I'll take snapshots with a camera, please. Well, they were the camera's of the period, Bob. Just as Scribes were the tape recorders! Do you believe the Bible is accurate? >Clear skies, >Bob Young >M.I.B. - saving the World from the scum of the Universe That's a very debatable subject, Bob! :) My mind is always as open as my eyes & ears are! Regards, Dave Acres
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 Ukranian Air Disaster Possibly Caused By UFO? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:24:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 06:58:39 -0400 Subject: Ukranian Air Disaster Possibly Caused By UFO? Source: De Telegraaf - Holland Sunday, August 4, 2002 http://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuwslink/teksten/nws.vliegshow.ufo.lviv.vlek.html My translation is based on WorldLingo's online translation of the original item. You'll find all three below. WorldLingo can be found at http://www.worldlingo.com/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html Stig *** UFO Possibly Caused Air Disaster in Ukraine Kiev/MOSCOW - A UFO may have caused the disaster during the air show over the Ukranian city of Lviv. This was announced by the Russian television station NTV on Sunday. The station transmitted video pictures of the air show. A dark spot seems to enter directly into the path of the jet from the right, before it crashed into the area. The unidentified flying object (UFO) can only be seen, if the video is played in slow motion. According to NTV the dark spot is definitely not a bird, but it is not clear, what it is, from the picture. On July 27 a Sukhoi Su-27 crashed into the public during an air show. Thereby 84 people died and almost two hundred were wounded. The disaster in Lviv is the most terrible in the history of air shows. *** 'UFO possible cause fly calamity oekra=EFne' KIEV/Moscow - a UFO knows the calamity during the vliegshow above the oekra=EFense city has Lviv causes. That Sunday communicated the Russian television set station NTV. The sender transmitted video pictures of the vliegshow. A dark macula seems come in the job of the jet hunter rightly, area before those crash down. The onbekende flying object (UFO) only to see as the video film one slows down is played. According to NTV is the dark macula definitely no bird, but become from the pictures clear what or. On 27 July a Soechoi crashed down Su-27 during a vliegshow on it public. Thereby it 84 men came to the living and touching to almost two hundred men wounded. The calamity in Lviv which with that it most terrible in the history of vliegshows. ** 'UFO mogelijke oorzaak vliegramp Oekra=EFne' KIEV/MOSKOU - Een UFO kan de ramp tijdens de vliegshow boven de Oekra=EFense stad Lviv hebben veroorzaakt. Dat heeft het Russische televisiestation NTV zondag gemeld. De zender zond videobeelden uit van de vliegshow. Een donkere vlek lijkt in de baan van de straaljager terecht te komen, vlak voordat die neerstort. Het onbekende vliegende object (UFO) is alleen te zien als de videofilm vertraagd wordt afgespeeld. Volgens NTV is de donkere vlek beslist geen vogel, maar uit de beelden wordt niet duidelijk wat dan wel. Op 27 juli stortte een Soechoi Su-27 tijdens een vliegshow neer op het publiek. Daarbij kwamen 84 mensen om het leven en raakten bijna tweehonderd mensen gewond. De ramp in Lviv was daarmee de ergste in de geschiedenis van vliegshows. ** =A9 1996-2002 Dagblad De Telegraaf, Amsterdam. Alle rechten voorbehouden.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 'Jane's' Editor: US Working On Nazi Anti-Gravity From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:49:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 07:01:05 -0400 Subject: 'Jane's' Editor: US Working On Nazi Anti-Gravity 'Jane's' Editor: US Working On Nazi Anti-Gravity Technology For 50 Years Source: Salon.com (San Francisco), August 5, 2002, http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/08/05/zero_gravity/index.html Stig *** "The Hunt for Zero Point" by Nick Cook An editor for the esteemed Jane's Defense Weekly says the U.S. government has been working on Nazi anti-gravity technology in secret for 50 years. By Kurt Kleiner ** Aug. 5, 2002 - The U.S. government confiscated secret Nazi anti- gravity technology at the end of World War II, and later may have tested it in aircraft that account for the rash of post-War UFO sightings. Some of that technology has probably made its way into the B2 stealth bomber. Some of it is probably so dangerous that it's buried away in secret government vaults. In the post-X-Files age, this sort of conspiracy theory won't raise any eyebrows. What makes the allegations interesting is that they appear in "The Hunt for Zero Point," which is written by Nick Cook, for 10 years the aviation editor at Jane's Defense Weekly. Jane's is the bible of the defense establishment, known for its no-nonsense, nuts-and-bolts reporting. A former Jane's editor tackling this topic is enough to make you take a second look. Although anti-gravity research ranks right up there with perpetual motion on the crank-o-meter, the idea of anti-gravity can't be completely dismissed. As recently as 1996 a Finnish scientist announced he could partially "shield" objects from gravity using spinning superconductors. Although most scientists are skeptical, NASA is interested enough that it's trying to replicate the results. And certainly Nazi Germany was working on a lot of advanced technology by the end of the war, including rockets, jet fighters and nuclear power. The U.S. recruited some German scientists to continue their work in the U.S., most notably Wernher von Braun, the V-2 rocket scientist who later helped make the moon landings possible. It's also clear that the U.S. military works on secret technology all the time -- about $11 billion worth every year in "deep black" programs that aren't even acknowledged to exist. The stealth fighter and B2 bomber were black programs for years. So even if Nazi flying saucers sound nutty on the face of it, there's nothing crazy about Cook asking the questions he does. You might even call it courageous. It's the conclusions he reaches that are the problem. Cook's search begins one day when a photocopy of a 1956 magazine article mysteriously lands on his desk. It's called "The G- Engines Are Coming!" and is illustrated with a drawing of a U.S. airman descending the steps of a floating, wingless aircraft. Cook thinks it's a joke, but gets interested when he sees aerospace industry leaders of the day quoted as saying anti- gravity could be the next big breakthrough. He decides to call one of them, a now-retired engineer named George S. Trimble. A Lockheed Martin P.R. person, "Daniella Abelman," sets up an interview, then calls back and says Trimble has cancelled. "I don't mind telling you that he sounded scared and I don't like to hear old men scared. It makes me scared," she tells Cook. "Let me give you some advice. Stick to what you know about; stick to the damned present. It's better that way for all of us.'" (Cook has changed "Abelman's" name, so there's no way to call her and see if she really talks like a character in a Tom Clancy novel.) Of course Cook's curiosity is inflamed, and he tracks down Trimble in a retirement community in Arizona and -- oh, wait a minute. That's what you expect him to do. But here's what he says. "My great regret was that I couldn't contact George S. Trimble directly. Had I done so, I knew that Abelman would have gone ballistic. She'd told me to stay away from him and she had the power to ensure that I became an outcast if I didn't." Unwilling to face the wrath of the flack, he retreats to the Internet where "in the silence of the night, I could roam ... and remain anonymous." He finds the story of Thomas Townsend Brown, a former Navy engineer who believed he could negate gravity using electricity and who by 1956 was demonstrating small, electrically charged flying disks. The military was briefly interested, but in the end issued a report that said there was no usable technology there. But Cook notices something in a 1947 Army Air Force memo (famous among UFO buffs), in which Lt. Gen. Nathan Twining concludes that UFOs are real. Twining adds that it is "within the present U.S. knowledge" to construct similar aircraft, given enough money. Cook concludes that by 1947 the U.S. must already have had a key component of UFO technology -- anti-gravity. That's why they weren't interested in Brown's technology years later. He suspects the technology came from Nazi Germany, and recounts allegations of German flying saucer programs from a few dubious books, as well as information he admits seems to have "magically appeared out of thin air ... passed down from one researcher to the next, without attribution." He gets off of the Internet and starts searching through military archives for clues. He finds a few hints in old Army Air Force records on Luftwaffe technology, but nothing substantial. Then he reads that the SS was in charge of the most secret German technology. "I felt a constriction in my throat. I was so keyed, my breath was coming in short, sharp gasps." Don't worry, he's not having a heart attack. He just realizes he's been looking in the wrong place. He starts reading about the SS. Soon we're off to Poland. A "researcher" named Igor Witkowski shows Cook an old mine, where he claims SS scientists worked on a machine called the Bell, a glowing, rotating contraption that used up a lot of electricity. "Word had it that the tests sought to investigate some kind of antigravitational effect, Witkowski said." Somebody else thinks it might have been a time machine. Then Cook finds yet another SS anti-gravity program, a flying saucer called the "Repulsine." Cook concludes that an SS official named Hans Kammler had all of this technology boxed up and flown to a safe place, later trading it to the U.S. military for his freedom. The U.S. government kept it all under wraps for years, but probably implemented some of it in the B2 bomber. Why didn't the U.S. make more widespread use of this technology? Partly because it would have disrupted the existing aerospace industry, with its expertise in winged aircraft. Partly because anti-gravity might tap into energies just too destructive to tamper with. And "... in the 1940s and 1950s, it wasn't as if the world really needed it." It's a story that strains credulity. But unless we're after cheap laughs, our hope when we pick up a book like this is that the author will, against the odds, build a careful, reasonable and convincing case. Cook isn't that author. The first problem is that Cook is no help sorting out the physics he's writing about. His explanation of "zero point energy" (a quantum effect caused by virtual particles winking in and out of existence) is acceptable. But he's also capable of explaining that the Repulsine made air molecules "pack so tightly together that their molecular and nuclear binding energies were affected in a way that triggered the anti-gravity effect." Both explanations sound equally weird to the layman. But the first is recognized science, the second pseudo-science. OK, so physics is hard, and Cook is a journalist. But we should at least expect him to bring a journalist's care to the sources he uses and the conclusions he draws. Instead, we're bombarded with a hodgepodge of information trawled up from the Internet, other books and UFO and anti-gravity enthusiasts, along with some firsthand reporting. Although he makes a show of weighing this information with the critical eye of a trained aerospace expert, he doesn't prove worthy of much confidence. A perfect example is his reliance on Witkowski, the Polish researcher, whose information is key to Cook's conclusions. Where did the information come from? Witkowski says a Polish government official (whom he refuses to name) allowed him to see some documents, but not make copies of them. Why does Cook believe Witkowski? "Witkowski had been recommended to me by Polish sources through my work at Jane's as someone who was both highly knowledgeable and reliable ... Had Witkowski been in any way a lightweight, I would have turned around and got on the first plane home. But when I saw him, I knew he was OK." Just as shaky are most of Cook's conclusions. For instance, the old Army Air Force memo in which Twining says UFO-type aircraft are "within the present U.S. knowledge" runs like a mantra through the book. Cook thinks it means that even in 1947 the U.S. could have built an aircraft capable of tremendous acceleration and instantaneous changes of direction, a craft that would require anti-gravity to work. Twining actually says, "It is possible within the present U.S. knowledge ... to construct a piloted aircraft which has the general description of the object in subparagraph (e) above." What's that description? Metallic, saucer-shaped, quiet, no trail, capable of flying in formation, with a cruising speed of 300 knots. Right or wrong, Twining's not talking about the same astonishing capabilities as Cook is. Or look at his conclusions about Kammler, the SS official Cook thinks traded the anti-gravity technology to the U.S. By the end of the war Kammler was the administrator in charge of most advanced research programs, including the V-2 rocket factories. But where's the evidence he traded any technology -- much less anti-gravity technology -- to the U.S.? Well, a lot of Germans with technological knowledge tried to cut deals with the U.S. Kammler's movements at the end of the war are mysterious, and there are contradictory reports about his death. Besides, Cook thinks it's the kind of thing Kammler would do. "My feeling was Kammler would offer them something so spectacular they'd have no choice but to enter into negotiations with him." In fact, a lot of the evidence here is based on Cook's feelings. A minor but typical example is a feeling he gets while reading a "recovered transcript," supposedly of a phone call between two Air Force officers discussing Brown's work. Gen. Victor E. Bertrandias is the chatty one; a general named Craig doesn't say much -- only "No" and later "I see." It's Craig who catches Cook's interest. "The man's urbane delivery earmarked him, to me at least, as someone big in Air Force intelligence." All that from, "I see." What is instructive about the book is the insight we get into how conspiracy theories seduce otherwise reasonable people. Like all of us, Cook knows that real conspiracies exist. No one questions, for instance, that military technologies are being developed in secret, and that the government "conspires" to keep details from the public. But what do you look for when you think direct evidence has been withheld or suppressed? Before searching some old records, Cook realizes "it was inconceivable that the ... intelligence teams would have documented the discovery [of German flying saucers] for the world to read about ... I wasn't searching for the obvious, because the obvious would have been picked up by the censors." So Cook is reduced to ferreting out minor inconsistencies and odd, ambiguous details which he tries to puff up into proof. Likewise, information that is available has to be suspected as possible government disinformation. Perhaps the military has encouraged UFO reports to disguise its own flying saucer tests. Maybe the mythical Philadelphia Experiment (in which a Navy ship was supposedly sent into another dimension) was really just a story designed to discredit Brown. But, since the best disinformation always contains a grain of truth, maybe there really is a connection between anti-gravity and other dimensions. Using this reasoning, all bets are soon off, and almost anything you turn up -- lack of evidence, official denials, unsubstantiated rumors, wild conjecture -- becomes evidence for what you're trying to prove. In the end, Cook's argument boils down to the old proverb he invokes several times -- Where there's smoke there must be fire. But sometimes, someone's just blowing smoke. - - - - - - - - - - - - About the writer Kurt Kleiner is a writer living in Toronto. Copyright 2002 Salon.com Salon, 22 4th Street, 16th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94103 Telephone 415 645-9200 | Fax 415 645-9204
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Argentine Man Sees UFO Hospitalized In Shock - From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:43:22 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 07:04:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Argentine Man Sees UFO Hospitalized In Shock - >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:23:59 -0400 >Subject: Argentine Man Sees UFO Hospitalized In Shock >SOURCE: Diario La Arena (La Pampa, Argentina) >DATE: August 4, 2002 >LOCAL RESIDENT CLAIMS SEEING UFO; HOSPITALIZED IN SHOCK. >**Cellphone snatched by unidentified object** <snip> Hi Errol. Scott & list. Before someone else says it: Maybe ET just wanted to phone home? ;) Wow! This is an interesting one, Scott! I wonder if the police can track the whereabouts of it by the repeater locations? Regards, Dave
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 FUFOR Site Down From: Steven Kaeser <steve@KONSULTING.COM> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:38:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 08:17:55 -0400 Subject: FUFOR Site Down This is to advise all that the Fund for UFO Research web site has been down for most of the past weekend, and remains off line at this hour. UUNET, in the Washington Metropolitan area, is experiencing a problem that impacts more than 400 customers, and unfortunately, this impacts the Fund's web site. My regular email is also affected by this outage, as is that of Don Berliner. I may be reached in the interim at: steve.kaeser@mail.house.gov and I will foward any messages I receive for Don via FAX. I won't go into the details of the outage, except to say UUNET is now waiting for "Vender Engineers" to come into work today to determine the cause of the problem. It is hoped that they will find the problem quickly and resolve it. Steven Kaeser
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 5 F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report File From: UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 08:35:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 08:35:02 -0400 Subject: F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report File As The Fund for UFO Research's site is temporarily incaccesible, and Joan Woodward's 'F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report' .doc file is posted there, a copy of that report is enclosed below. ebk _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ F-16 Chase Case Preliminary Report Sighting of July 26, 2002, Waldorf/Andrews AFB area, MD GPS reading for Waldorf site: 38 degrees, 37'24"; 076 degrees, 55'46" Time of sighting was between 1-2 am EDT. Witness: Renny Rogers, Waldorf MD. Renny is a Government employee and lives with his wife and 2 collies in a townhouse development in Waldorf. He has always lived near Andrews AFB and is very familiar with aircraft that fly in and out. His current townhouse is under a flight path for Andrews, and he states that he has never seen the kind of activity before in his life that occurred in the early morning of July 26. His time and spatial estimates are unusually accurate. He has a good eye for spotting aircraft. Although he has a strong interest in the UFO field, this is his first sighting. After the sighting was over, he reported it to WTOP radio, in Washington, D.C., and the the FUND. He has extremely strong feelings about pursuing to a final answer the riddle of what he saw and what the military know about it. Weather conditions: Few scattered clouds at 3500' with an overcast at 5500-6000'. Temperature at Reagan-National Airport, 15 miles NW of Waldorf, was 70 degrees, relative humidity 76%; wind was 5-6 mph from the ESE. {Humidity numbers look a little high, so they need to be checked after corrected data is out.} Visibility was 10 statue miles. Sequence of events: 1. Witness heard aircraft taking off from Andrews AFB. 2. Jet aircraft rattles his house, afterburner on. 3. Witness sights a blue light being pursued to a flighter 1. Aircraft take off from Andrews AFB.-- Rogers heard planes take off from Andrews (estimates the time as 1:30-2 am but he is not sure of this), and he estimates that in 5-7-10 minutes they were in his immediate area. After take off, there may have been a very short period with no aircraft noise, but aircraft sounds got louder and louder and sounded as though the jets were circling in his area and not leaving. The noise made him think there were multiple jets in the area. He felt there were more than 2. 2. The aircraft noise level brings Rogers outdoors. -- The noise was rattling the house and was so great that Rogers went outdoors, turning to his right (S) and walking a few steps so he could get away from trees and see the sky. He saw a military fighter flying directly away from him going SSE about 35-45 degrees above the horizon. He was looking directly at the tail end of the aircraft, and it's afterburner (orange-white plume of fire) was on and remained on for 2-3 seconds before reducing to a residual short plume for the remainder of the viewing time. No sonic boom was heard. The fighter was in level flight at an estimated altitude of 3000' (broken clouds at 3500' from weather report) and was in view for about 11 seconds*. Rogers goes back indoors. 3. Sighting.-- For approximately 3-5 minutes it was quiet with no jet noise or distant jet noise. Then the noise level increased again to near the previous levels. Rogers goes back outside to see what was happening. He goes out the door to the right (S), and sees nothing this time, though he hears loud jet noise. The he goes to the left of his front door (N). At this point he sees a pale bluish light moving at a phenomenal rate of speed. His sense is that the light is moving in an effortless almost floating manner but at high speed, but not at meteoric speed. When first seen, the light was estimated to be 35 degrees above the horizon in the NE sky above the treeline. When first seen, it's path dipped and came back up like a small dip in a roller coaster and it flew straight line to about 85 degrees from the horizon in the ESE sky, where it was obscured by a mature deciduous treeline about 30' from Rogers. The estimated time from first sight to treeline interference was 3-4 seconds.* Speed was constant, straightline, and there was no sound associated with the light. At this point, no aircraft was in view, and although jet noise could be heard, it was not in the immediate vicinity. Rogers ran to the S and picked up the light again at about 45 degrees from the horizon in the SW sky and moving away from him. About 3 seconds* after finding the light again, a military aircraft flew over his house, which was behind Rogers, coming from the N and straightlining after the blue light. Light and aircraft are now on the same path going SW. Rogers was moving out into the street to keep them in view as long as possible. The aircraft was in sight about 22 seconds* before it could no longer be seen. The blue light was in sight for about 5-6 seconds* before it could no longer be seen (the aircraft could be seen much longer because it was so much bigger than the light). Rogers did not know when the aircraft began its pursuit of the light, but when it appeared over his house, he is sure it was then in pursuit of the light but that it had no chance of catching it as the blue light was much faster than the pursuing jet. The aircraft used no afterburner and followed the blue light's path until they both disappeared in the SW sky. Rogers estimates they were between 1000- 2000' apart . {This may be the most iffy estimate because of viewing angles-JW} As the aircraft pursued the light in level straightline flight, it was tipping its wings from side-to-side constantly, at least 4 times to each side. In the partly cloudy sky, the blue light was sometimes briefly obscured or partly obscured by clouds. Because the fighter was so much larger than the light, visual was not lost when broken clouds were between it and the witness. Description of the light: A constant pale blue in color and starlike, about 2 or 3 times the size of the red wing tip lights of the jet pursuing it. He could see no hard edge to where the light, any more than a hard edge could be seen on a airliner beacon light or radio tower light. The entire light flickered from: light-to-faded-to-light on a cycle of about 1.5 seconds throughout the time it was visible. The brightness of the light was unchanging. He compared the flicker to a high flying airplane beacon light but with different timing. Rogers compared the quality (not the behavior) of the light to "blue" (rather than green) glow sticks held aloft by a helium balloon. *All times were estimated by re-enactment against a stopwatch. Investigation to this point: I interviewed Renny Rogers 3 times by phone, on the July 26, 27, and 29th, and did an in-person interview at his house on July 31. NORAD I spoke with Maj. Barry Venable on July 26. He said that two F- 16's were scrambled from Andrews about 1 am to investigate "suspicious air activity over D.C." They found nothing and returned to Andrews. I asked about the activity over Waldorf, and he said that was close enough to Andrews that they might well fly over the area on return, and it's possible they may have hotdogged to burn up some fuel. I asked if there was any mechanism whereby the F-16 could project a light ahead of itself. He said no, but at certain angles and in misty weather, an afterburner could appear blue. He had no information beyond "suspicious air activity" in terms of what initialed the scramble. I again spoke with Maj. Venable on July 29, when he asked me to email him about what had occurred and what questions I had. But the only information that came forth was: "Two F-16 jets from Andrews Air Force Base were scrambled approximately 0100 hours 26 Jul 02 after radar detected an unknown aircraft. The unidentified aircraft's track subsequently faded from the radar. The F-16s investigated, found nothing out of the ordinary, and returned to base." For operational security reasons, other details would not be discussed. Radar Tracks: I contacted an acquaintance who is a top notch radar engineer for his thoughts on NORAD's radar comments, particularly asking if the fact that NORAD referred to radar detecting an unknown aircraft meant the target had a transponder. His comments follow: l. Ground movers can often generate radar returns, as can wind blown rain, trees, birds, insect swarms-any thing with motion can create a Dopple return that might appear as slow low aircraft. 2. The term "aircraft" is probably not enough to infer that they had a transponder return. 3. Keep in mind that combat aviation annals are rich with examples of intercept controllers sending fighters in hot pursuit of nothing. What were the F-16's doing? Background information has been sent to FUND from Don Ledger ( Zone Commander Civil Air Search & Rescue with 20 years of flying light aircraft up to 2 engine) and from Jim Canan, who got background from a former F-15 pilot, so I will not restate their comments here. Final thought, is it possible that the F-16's have some sort of perhaps targeting or ranging finding equipment that can project a hologram-like image ahead of the aircraft? The thought keeps occurring to me. Joan Woodward Sky.cat@worldnet.att.net Fairfax, VA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:11:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 13:48:57 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:35:50 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:06:48 -0700 >>Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Follow Up With Maj. Snyder >>Major Snyder, Command Spokesman for the U.S. Space Command and >>NORAD, was contacted by E-mail on Monday morning, July 29 for >>brief follow up to our Saturday afternoon telephone conversation >>concerning the unidentified aircraft approaching Washington D.C. >>on July 26 as detected by NORAD radar. ><snip> >>CONCLUSION >>NORAD and Maj. Snyder have not been prompt in releasing a >>timeline of events or answers to specific information concerning >>a UFO radar target of July 26, 2002, and have advised that this >>information will not be released due to 'operational security.'> >>As noted above, Major Snyder said: "In none of the situations >>we're involved in do we release the info you asked about." >>However, as illustrated in this report, the same information was >>indeed released regarding the June 19, 2002 case of a pilot >>making a navigational error near the nation's capitol. >Based on your report. I suspect (repeat suspect) that NORAD is >embarrassed that its radar controllers mistook a temperature- >inversion caused radar blip for a real target. Shades of General Samford 50 years ago: temperature inversion. One wonders whether the weather conditions were conducive to creation of a sufficiently strong inversion, as opposed to 50 years ago when the conditions were not that bad. One also wonders why, if it was a spurious target resulting from an inversion, why the modern radar cannot discriminate against such conditions. One must presume that "radar angels" and "inversions" would be one of the first things that the radar operators would check on before launching aircraft.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:11:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 13:54:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles - Maccabee >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Source: The Toronto Star >http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=ef80d9e932ff 883b&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_>Type1&c=Article&cid=1026143924507&call_pag e=TS_Entertainment&call_pageid=968867495754&call_pagepath=Entertainmen>t/News&co l=969483191630 >Aug. 4, 2002. 01:00 AM >Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles >The new movie Signs inspires Web-based agricultural curiosity >By Peter Howell >If space aliens really are behind crop circles, as the new Mel >Gibson movie Signs suggests, then they should be suing us for >royalties. I saw the movie. The one close up of the field showed corn stocks bent at 90 degree angles... looked broken to me. The true anomalies, different directions of circulation at different layers of stalks, curved bends, plants keep growing, and no evidence of footprints or scraping damage to plants... were not emphasized. Nor are these mentioned in most of the (naive) newspaper stories that emphasize the entertainment aspects of the phenomenon. One person pointed out that a complex agriglyph could take up to 10 people to make. The implication is that this can be done without leaving any evidence of human activity. I wonder.....
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 CCCRN News: Multi-Circle Quintuplet Formation From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:45:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 13:55:54 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Multi-Circle Quintuplet Formation CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 5, 2002 _____________________________ CROP WATCH 2002 MULTI-CIRCLE QUINTUPLET FORMATION - HOWICK, QUEBEC Report this morning from the Montreal Gazette newspaper of a large formation in barley near Howick, Quebec, discovered August 3 by the farmhand. Basically a quintuplet type formation of five large circles, with other smaller ones both in and outside of the main formation. Largest circle approximately 20 metres (65 feet) diameter, with the main formation approximately 41 metres (135 feet) across. Further details pending. Montreal Gazette article with an aerial photo: http://www.canada.com/search/site/story.asp?id=3DB119A396-98E0-446A-867D-F5A= AA2E05 B8A Note: this field does have tramlines, although that is not typical of fields in the prairies. Please continue to temporarily use the copy of the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page here: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject/circlescanada02.html This is the seventh report for 2002. Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field investigations and studies of formations, aerial surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public and the media, in particular during the prime August / September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Rudiak's Roswellian Redux From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:07:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:00:22 -0400 Subject: Rudiak's Roswellian Redux Rudiak's Roswellian Redux: Platform for the Grandest of Inquiries? By Larry W. Bryant David Rudiak's recently launched website: http://www.roswellproof.homestead.com enumerating and highlighting certain key elements of Roswellian evidence has an unintended consequence: its utility as a forensic and socio-political data base by which the proposed citizens-petition- driven impanelment of a special grand jury in Roswell, N.M., can move from concept to operation. The CONCEPT centers on the grand jury's investigative-and- reporting function as regards wrongdoing that rises not to the level of an indictable offense but to otherwise harmful effects upon the body politic (e.g., official abuse of authority, violation of the public trust, intimidation of witnesses, deceptive practices, failure of justice, and conspiracy to deny full public access to Roswellian UFO artifacts and records). The OPERATION would commence upon the Chaves County court's receipt of a petition signed by the requisite number (i.e., several hundred) of voters currently registered in the county. New Mexico's constitutional provision for this form of GJ impanelment gives the judge no alternative; (s)he must proceed with impanelment. How far the process will progress after that historic day will depend on such factors as -- - The extent to which prospective UFO-coverup whistleblowers will be enticed to enter this relatively safe forum by which to present their insider testimony, "leaked" documentation, and leads to other smoking-gun evidence. - The extent to which the Roswell community can (and will) support the possibilities of this "people's panel" toward ferreting out such UFOtruth as the origin and current whereabouts of all government-retrieved Roswellian UFO artifacts (including the alien crewmembers); the role of any New Mexican officials/personnel in the retrieval operation, coverup, and subsequent technology-harvesting of the artifacts; the official reparations owed by the government to the victims (both Earth- based and extraterrestrial) of any governmental mis-/non- malfeasance; the ongoing, un-government-acknowledged scourge of alien abuctions (particularly any cases occurring in Chaves County); the ongoing air-space intrusion of mysterious, threatening "flying triangles"; and official stonewalling of individual citizens' efforts to litigate against suppression of this essential evidence. - The extent to which certain government authorities might try to scuttle this grassroots effort at holding to account all the perpetrators of, accomplices in, and apologists for the Roswell UFO coverup. - The extent to which certain aged prospective whistleblowers are willing to commit their accounts to the format of a notarized deathbed confession for posthumous delivery to the grand jury (see my draft of that format, soon to be submitted for posting upon Mr. Rudiak's site). - The extent to which the worldwide news media will devote serious, in-depth coverage to the GJ project as it unfolds and gathers momentum. - The extent to which the attendant media interest and mounting public pressure will accelerate any overt/covert measures being undertaken by Congress toward full disclosure of UFO reality. Sure, most of this proposal remains uncharted territory; but the GJ project's potential for helping shift the paradigm of the status quo to the paradigm of citizens' inquiry/activism/resolution might well be worth the price of admission. If you agree, I now ask that volunteers in both Roswell and elsewhere step forward to help create a task force for gathering the requisite number of signatures, to contribute funding of pertinent costs, and thus to join us all in finally learning (and telling) the greatest story ever never told.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 NIDS Releases Study On Black Triangles From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 20:09:02 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:03:29 -0400 Subject: NIDS Releases Study On Black Triangles Source: SPACE.com http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/black_triangle_020805.htm= l Stig *** Investigation Casts Light on the Mysterious Flying Black Triangle By Leonard David posted: 07:00 am ET 05 August 2002 ** They are big, black, and triangular. In UFO folklore they are proof-positive that planet Earth is a rest stop for joyriding, but road-weary, extraterrestrials. A just released study by the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), based in Las Vegas, Nevada, sheds new light on the dark and mysterious craft. They offer a more down-to- earth hypothesis. NIDS researchers contend that these type vehicles are lighter- than-air, blimp-style craft of the U.S. military's making. Likely powered by "electrokinetic" drive, the lifting body- shaped airships have been skirting the skies from perhaps the early to mid 1980s. NIDS has followed up on their study of last year that correlated sightings of large triangular or delta-shaped objects with Air Force Materiel Command and Air Mobility Command bases throughout the United States. Matches were made suggesting flight paths in and out of certain base locations. The new assessment focuses on what four police officers, and more than a dozen others observed on January 5, 2000: A large, silent, low-flying black triangular shaped object. It flew on a southwesterly direction between Highland, Illinois and Dupo, located less than 30 miles (48 kilometers) from St. Louis, Missouri. Part of the flight path took the enormous object near the perimeter of Scott Air Force Base. NIDS does not come up with definite conclusion regarding the origin of the object sighted in Illinois. However, the reports jibe with over 150 separate reports of sightings of large triangular or deltoid shaped objects. Those eyewitness accounts, accumulated by NIDS, have mainly come from the United States. A small number of the sightings they have on file come from Canada and Europe. Ballooning expectations To bolster their case about military airships being taken for UFOs, analysts at NIDS make a historical note. Lighter-than-air vehicles held all records for payload, distance, duration, and altitude within the first four decades of the 20th century - even with the advent of the airplane. In fact, save for rocket-powered research aircraft, like the X-15 and the space shuttle, all absolute altitude records are still held by high-altitude scientific balloons. NIDS makes the case that Big Black Deltas, or BBDs, are U.S. Defense Department airships. They are so large they can carry massive payloads at low altitudes, cruising at speeds three to five times as fast as surface ships. Among a range of NIDS observations, the group believes the BBDs are powered by electrokinetic/field drives, or airborne nuclear power units. These craft also fly at extreme altitudes, high above conventional aircraft and the pulsing of ground- based traffic control radar. Elecrokinetic propulsion means that no propellers or jets are used. A hybrid lighter-than-air craft would rely on aerostatic, lift gas, like a balloon. No helicopter-like downwash would be produced. Except for a slight humming from high-voltage control equipment - and in older BBD versions an occasional coronal discharge - a Big Black Delta makes no noise. Given a slew of BBD capabilities - from silent running, diminished drag, elimination of sonic shockwaves, to operation from ground level to full vacuum - NIDS calls for pushing this black world technology out into daylight for commercial benefit. Wheat from the chaff "What we're trying to do is transform unidentified flying objects, UFOs, into IFOs, or identified flying objects," said Colm Kelleher, deputy administrator for NIDS. "We want to limit the number of cases that are unidentified in our data base. The more that are identified, obviously the less we have to work on. That's our prime motivation& to eliminate the wheat from the chaff," Kelleher told SPACE.com. NIDS has amassed some 1,000 cases that are under review. Of those, about 200 are Big Black Delta sightings. In the last year or two, BBD reports have been on the rise. Kelleher said that military may well be ready to take the wraps off the black triangle vehicles. The Illinois case, for instance, has been built on hours of public views of the mystery airship. "That's not exactly stealth mode. It's inevitable that it will be declassified," he said. Leaping across the sky "There appears to be an increase in deployment of these vehicles," Kelleher said. "The only time you see these things are when they are leaving or coming in. A lot of these sightings are at night. Our information is that they spend a long time aloft, weeks at a time. They can be thought of as ocean-going ships, rather than aircraft," he said. Over the years, the BBDs appear to fall into different size categories. "The ones that dominate our database are very, very large. They are low-flying, silent, and are reported to be about the size of a football field," Kelleher said. The BBDs have been seen accelerating very rapidly from a hovering position. "They can look as though they are leaping across the sky. Being silent, it's almost spooky," Kelleher said. Heavy lifting L. Scott Miller, professor of Aerospace Engineering at Wichita State University in Wichita, Kansas, said the idea of a large, still-classified airship floating about is on the mark. "I do think that a large airship, with a heavy lift and other mission objectives, has been built," Miller told SPACE.com. Miller is also a distinguished lecturer of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA), and specializes in black aircraft and the world of secret flight. The NIDS research documentation parallels, about 50 percent of the time, a theory that Miller has detailed in his AIAA talks for some two years. "Lockheed has shown a great deal of interest in airships for many years. The real question is whether the Department of Defense has committed to buy and use such machines," Miller said. Stealth blimp Large airships are of benefit to the military. They are capable of carrying extremely large and heavy payloads at a reasonable speed, for which there is a real mission need, Miller said. The U.S. airlift fleet is getting old, taking a great beating in the last 10 years in such locales as Iran, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. Some new aircraft are making it into the inventory, but they still have limits. For instance, to move loads of tanks and other gear requires lots of flights and support. "An airship that could carry a large number of tanks, troops, and supplies into a region overnight would be fantastic," Miller said. Miller does take issue with the NIDS study's view of a black triangle's propulsion. "Interesting, but I'm not sure it is necessary," he said. "I suspect that a neutrally buoyant aerodynamically lifting airships using conventional prop-rotor systems would be useful in implementing a practical airship design," Miller said. Such a vehicle could be a cross between the V-22 Osprey - a craft having short wings and thrust vectoring rotors - and a blended wing aircraft, he said. Miller said that by careful shaping, the systems used, and carefully orchestrating operational procedures, the vulnerability of an airship in a combat environment could be reduced. "Low altitude flights, at night, and an awareness of enemy capabilities would be critical. Indeed, slow flight at the right time can render enemy radar useless. A 'stealth blimp' would be feasible in this respect," Miller said. Black world wizardry Still, the true nature and use of the black triangle craft remains a head scratcher. "I suspect that the people in Illinois saw an airship of some type. Is it operational? I don't know. Would it be 'sexy enough' for the Defense Department inventory, compared to other high- tech aircraft like the B-2? I don't know," Miller said. "Each sighting requires a great deal of analysis. A witness's perceptions of speed, acceleration, and size are likely of very little value," Miller said. "I have taken an approach of first identifying needs - or mission requirements - and technology availability. Then I compare those with the cold raw, simple facts of a sighting, not the conjecture or guess work of a witness," he said. "I suspect that, as a result, perhaps up to 30 percent of the recent 'Triangle UFO' sightings are of black world aircraft, jets or airships," Miller concluded. ** More Stories: UFOs and Classified Aircraft: Shedding New Light on Dark Secrets Images of Top-Secret U.S. Air Base Show Growth Illinois sighting * Images: Estimated to be 600 feet long and 300 feet wide, with a height of 40 feet, the Black Triangle could weigh as much as 100 tons. Courtesy of National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) Lockheed Martin's Stealth Blimp from 1982 ** =A9 2002 SPACE.com, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Debunking The Debunkers From: David D. Furlotte <Furry@nobelmed.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:19:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:16:11 -0400 Subject: Debunking The Debunkers Dear Listers, I've decided that enough is enough and it is time to challenge the debunkers within the ufological community. However, unlike the debunkers who like to proclaim without benefit of investigation what the answer is to any UFO sighting, I prefer to do a little research so it can clearly be seen how wrong the debunkers can be. In a recent radio interview on 'Strange Days... Indeed', Dr. Joe Nickell stated that "CSICOP's middle name was investigation", but I guess Phil Klass must have missed that particular class at CSICOP school because his reason for the Washington sightings where F-16's were scrambled to intercept is so totally preposterous that it wasn't even accepted by Project Blue Book when it was given as the same reason 50 years ago. Phil Klass proclaimed that the blue light tracked on NORAD radar and chased over the skies in Washington by F-16s was nothing more than an anamoly caused by a temperature inversion. This was the "official" reason given for the sightings of strange things in the skies July 19, 1952 and was shot down then. From: http://ufocasebook.com/washington.html The radar operators offered their own reason for rejecting the Air Force explanation. Radar controller Barnes would state, "Inversion blips are always recognized by experts, we are familiar with what weather conditions, flying birds, and [other] such things can cause on radar. Temperature inversions on radar are typically weak returns and move at a slow ground speed. These blips were distinctly clear, reported as a very good return, solid and often traveled at unbelievable speeds." If Phil Klass did just a teeny tiny bit of "investigation" he also would have found out that nobody, including the USAF's Project Blue Book, bought it back in 1952 and I suspect that our radar systems and operators are somewhat more advanced with the benefit of 50 years under their belt. In other words Phil, you couldn't fool 'em then, why do you think you can fool 'em now? David (Furry) Furlotte http://www.authorsden.com/daviddfurlotte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Secrecy News -- 08/05/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:13:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:19:23 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/05/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 72 August 5, 2002 ** CONGRESSMEN VOICE "CONCERN" OVER SCIENCE PAPER ** ESTIMATING THE SIZE OF THE SOVIET ECONOMY ** SHELBY A LEAK SUSPECT? ** DETAINEES AND "THE RIGHT TO KNOW" CONGRESSMEN VOICE "CONCERN" OVER SCIENCE PAPER Publication of a controversial scientific paper that described the synthesis of an infectious polio virus from mail order components has prompted several members of Congress to introduce a resolution expressing "serious concern" about the paper, which appeared July 11 in Science Magazine online, and calling for tighter controls on the publication of certain scientific research. The resolution, introduced by Rep. Dave Weldon and seven others on July 26, would urge the scientific community to ensure that information that may be used by terrorists is not made widely available. It would further call upon the executive branch to reexamine its classification policies in light of the recent polio virus paper, which was funded by DARPA. "The executive branch should examine all policies, including national security directives, relevant to the classification or publication of federally funded research to ensure that, although the free exchange of information is encouraged, information that could be useful in the development of chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons is not made accessible to terrorists or countries of proliferation concern," according to the draft resolution. See the text of House Resolution 514 here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2002/hres514.html The relevant "national security directive" is National Security Decision Directive 189, which declared that "It is the policy of this Administration that, to the maximum extent possible, the products of fundamental research remain unrestricted." That 1985 directive remains in effect. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsdd/nsdd-189.htm Although the House resolution arguably overstated the significance of the Science paper as a blueprint for manufacturing other viruses, it noted correctly that "the principle that the article demonstrated could have been demonstrated by using a harmless bacterial virus." In other words, the paper was intended to be provocative. And now it has provoked. The House resolution, and other consequences of the polio virus paper, are discussed in a news story and an exchange of letters in the August 2 issue of Science Magazine. In response to penetrating criticism of the paper's publication from Stanford researcher Steven M. Block, Science editor Donald Kennedy defended the decision to publish. "Sticking one's head in the sand and hoping that unpleasant realities will go away has never been a fruitful approach to science or to public policy," he wrote. ESTIMATING THE SIZE OF THE SOVIET ECONOMY The National Academy of Sciences has newly published online a 1991 report on "Estimating the Size of the Soviet Economy." This concerns an old dispute about the widely criticized methodology used by the Central Intelligence Agency to assess Soviet economic strength in the late cold war years. The text of the report is posted here: http://www.nap.edu/books/NI000462/html/index.html SHELBY A LEAK SUSPECT? Sen. Richard Shelby, the uncompromising foe of any and all leaks of classified information, may be a suspect in the leaking of classified communications intercepts to the press, according to U.S. News and World Report. His staff rejected that allegation as "silly." Sen. Shelby was seen talking to a CNN reporter shortly before CNN broadcast its story about the secret intercepts, said the U.S. News Washington Whispers column this week. That CNN story triggered an ongoing hunt for congressional leakers. See: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/020812/whispers/12whisplead.htm DETAINEES AND "THE RIGHT TO KNOW" The nature of the public's legal claim of access to government information was the subject of a brief but interesting analysis in last Friday's federal court ruling which directed the government to disclose the names of most September 11 detainees. "It has long been recognized that the public has a First Amendment right of access to criminal proceedings, civil proceedings, and to 'receive information and ideas' pertaining to the conduct of public affairs. [...] This right derives from the core purpose of the First Amendment, which is to ensure 'freedom of communication on matters relating to the functioning of government'," wrote Judge Gladys Kessler. "However, the First Amendment is not coterminous with FOIA, and it does not 'mandate a right of access' to all 'government information'." Accordingly, Judge Kessler granted most of the information about detainees that was requested under FOIA but did not grant access requested on First Amendment grounds to dates and locations of the detainees' arrest (pp. 41-44). See the August 2 ruling here: http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/01-2500.pdf The Department of Justice promptly issued a statement criticizing the new ruling which, it said, "impedes one of the most important federal law enforcement investigations in history, harms our efforts to bring to justice those responsible for the heinous attacks of September 11, and increases the risk of future terrorist threats to our nation." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/08/doj080202.html The phrase "The Right to Know" was coined by Associated Press executive editor Kent Cooper, according to a New York Times editorial on January 23, 1945 (as noted by author Harold L. Cross in his 1953 book "The Public's Right to Know," p. xi). _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news- request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:23:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:24:28 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser >From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:35:50 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:06:48 -0700 >>Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Follow Up With Maj. Snyder >>Major Snyder, Command Spokesman for the U.S. Space Command and >>NORAD, was contacted by E-mail on Monday morning, July 29 for >>brief follow up to our Saturday afternoon telephone conversation >>concerning the unidentified aircraft approaching Washington D.C. >>on July 26 as detected by NORAD radar. ><snip> >>CONCLUSION >>NORAD and Maj. Snyder have not been prompt in releasing a >>timeline of events or answers to specific information concerning >>a UFO radar target of July 26, 2002, and have advised that this >>information will not be released due to 'operational security.' >>As noted above, Major Snyder said: "In none of the situations >>we're involved in do we release the info you asked about." >>However, as illustrated in this report, the same information was >>indeed released regarding the June 19, 2002 case of a pilot >>making a navigational error near the nation's capitol. >Dear Kenny Young: >Based on your report. I suspect (repeat suspect) that NORAD is >embarrassed that its radar controllers mistook a temperature- >inversion caused radar blip for a real target. >Phil Klass If we take the ground witnesses word for what they had seen, and they witnesses F-16 fighters chasing a "blue ball of light", then I suspect that the "temperature inversion" is a fairly weak argument. But that seems to be a quick response for some, so it doesn't surprise me. Is there any real data pertaining to this particular case that would lead one to conclude that it was a temperature-inversion?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 'UFO' In Ukranian Jet Crash From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 21:49:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:49:28 -0400 Subject: 'UFO' In Ukranian Jet Crash Source: The Daily Telegraph via news.com.au Australia http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4845726% 255E401,00.html Stig *** 'UFO' in jet crash August 06, 2002 ** KIEV: A previously unidentified flying object may have caused the deadly crash of a Ukrainian fighter into an air show crowd a week ago, the Russian NTV television company reported yesterday. Slow-motion videotape of the July 27 accident shows a dark object rising in an arc from a wood near the Lviv airfield close the flight path of the Su-27, which went on to crash into the crowd. It was not clear what exactly the object was, or whether it struck the aircraft. The crash killed 84 and left 199 hospitalised. Evhen Marchuk of the Ukrainian National Security Council said initial investigations "almost certainly" ruled out technical problems with the aircraft or a possible bird strike. The Daily Telegraph
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:00:05 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:51:09 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 17:13:18 -0500 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & ANG >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:43:11 -0700 >>Subject: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & ANG <snip> >If my memory is correct, there used to be a regulation that made >it a criminal offense for a member of the armed forces to >discuss unsolved UFO cases involving the military, but made it >OK to talk about cases that had officially been assigned a >prosaic explanation. Does anyone know if that regulation or one >Like it is still in effect? I'm wondering if some such >regulation could account for the differences Kenny Young noted >in how this case has been handled by the Air Force and how the >previous explained incident with the off-course private plane >was handled. Lan, Kenny: A successful intercept of an off-course plane is not a UFO, but demonstrates that our defenses are working. An unsuccessful intercept of a radar return which just disapeared, possibly as "anomolous propogation", as Phil Klass has suggested, is also probably not considered a UFO by the USAF. Before anybody makes too much out of a lack of information or seeming contradictions between spokespeople who probably weren't there, themselves, remember that it's wartime. A war in which hostilities began with a successful air attack on the Pentagon. Of course, I realize that your flying saucer hobby takes precedence over defence of the nation's capitol in the middle of a war, but that's probably just too bad. Clear skies, Bob Young 'If you're standing in a puddle, don't touch anything that hums." -- Red Green
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Longer Report On Ukrainian UFO (Jet Crash) Incident From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 01:56:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:59:06 -0400 Subject: Longer Report On Ukrainian UFO (Jet Crash) Incident Source: dpa (Deutsche Presse-Agentur), August 5, 2002 - in my own translation. The original German text is at the end. Stig *** Kiev - Ten days after the air show disaster in the western Ukrainian town of Lwiw, there are speculations that an unidentified flying object caused the crash of a fighter aircraft of the Suchoi Su-27 type. In the meantime the number of casualties has risen to 85. Monday morning a severely wounded airshow visitor died in the intensive care unit of the hospital in Lwiw. A rocket or just an insect? The Russian TV station NTW showed in slow motion pictures on Sunday how - in an arc from a neighbouring wood - a dark object approached the flight path of the crashing jet fighter. It was not clear from the TV story what the flying object could have been. Possibly a rocket was fired at the aircraft. Still, from an expert's point of view, it could also have been an insect that flew past the video camera at a close distance. The Ukranian authorities have not made up their mind about the supposition that the crash of the Suchoi Su-27 could have been caused by a hitherto unidentified flying object. According to their own statement they are still looking for the exact cause of the crash of the Suchoi in a crowd of spectators. A technical problem is regarded as the most likely cause. (ha/sa/dpa) *** dpa: Kiew - Zehn Tage nach der Flugschau-Katastrophe im westukrainischen Lwiw (Lemberg) gibt es Spekulationen, ein unbekanntes Flugobjekt habe den Absturz des Kampfflugzeuges vom Typ Suchoi Su-27 verursacht. Die Zahl der Todesopfer ist mittlerweile auf 85 gestiegen. Auf der Intensivstation des Unfallkrankenhauses von Lwiw starb am Montagmorgen ein schwer verletzter Flugschau-Besucher. Eine Rakete oder nur ein Insekt? Der russische Fernsehsender NTW zeigte am Sonntag in Zeitlupenbildern, wie sich ein dunkles Objekt in einem Bogen von einem W=E4ldchen in der N=E4he des Flugfeldes der Flugbahn des Abfangj=E4gers n=E4hert. Unklar blieb nach dem Fernsehbericht, um was es sich bei dem fliegenden Objekt gehandelt haben k=F6nnte. M=F6glicherweise sei das Flugzeug mit einer Rakete beschossen worden. Es k=F6nnte sich nach Ansicht eines Experten jedoch auch um ein Insekt handeln, das nah am Objektiv der Videokamera vorbeigeflogen sei. Die ukrainischen Beh=F6rden haben bisher noch keine Stellung zu den Vermutungen genommen, der Absturz der Suchoi Su-27 k=F6nnte durch ein bislang nicht identifiziertes fliegendes Objekt verursacht worden sein. Sie suchen nach eigenen Angaben weiter nach der genauen Ursache f=FCr den Absturz der Suchoi in eine Zuschauergruppe. Als wahrscheinlichste Unfallursache gilt ein technisches Problem. (ha/sa/dpa)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 More By 'Jane's' Editor On Nazi Anti-Gravity From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 03:53:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:48:57 -0400 Subject: More By 'Jane's' Editor On Nazi Anti-Gravity >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:49:03 +0200 >Subject: 'Jane's' Editor: US Working On Nazi Anti-Gravity >'Jane's' Editor: US Working On Nazi Anti-Gravity Technology For 50 Years >Source: Salon.com (San Francisco), August 5, 2002, >http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/08/05/zero_gravity/index.h tml >Stig >*** >"The Hunt for Zero Point" by Nick Cook >An editor for the esteemed Jane's Defense Weekly says the U.S. >government has been working on Nazi anti-gravity technology in >secret for 50 years. >By Kurt Kleiner Thought that this article by the author might interest you. Source: Jane's Defence Weekly, http://www.janes.com/transport/news/jdw/jdw020729_1_n.shtml Stig *** 29 February 2002 Anti-gravity propulsion comes 'out of the closet' By Nick Cook, JDW Aerospace Consultant, London ** Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted it is working on experimental anti-gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware. As part of the effort, which is being run out of Boeing's Phantom Works advanced research and development facility in Seattle, the company is trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims he has developed anti-gravity devices in Russia and Finland. The approach, however, has been thwarted by Russian officialdom. The Boeing drive to develop a collaborative relationship with the scientist in question, Dr Evgeny Podkletnov, has its own internal project name: 'GRASP' ? Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion. A GRASP briefing document obtained by JDW sets out what Boeing believes to be at stake. "If gravity modification is real," it says, "it will alter the entire aerospace business." GRASP's objective is to explore propellentless propulsion (the aerospace world's more formal term for anti-gravity), determine the validity of Podkletnov's work and "examine possible uses for such a technology". Applications, the company says, could include space launch systems, artificial gravity on spacecraft, aircraft propulsion and 'fuelless' electricity generation ? so- called 'free energy'. But it is also apparent that Podkletnov's work could be engineered into a radical new weapon. The GRASP paper focuses on Podkletnov's claims that his high- power experiments, using a device called an 'impulse gravity generator', are capable of producing a beam of 'gravity-like' energy that can exert an instantaneous force of 1,000g on any object ? enough, in principle, to vaporise it, especially if the object is moving at high speed. Podkletnov maintains that a laboratory installation in Russia has already demonstrated the 4in (10cm) wide beam's ability to repel objects a kilometre away and that it exhibits negligible power loss at distances of up to 200km. Such a device, observers say, could be adapted for use as an anti-satellite weapon or a ballistic missile shield. Podkletnov declared that any object placed above his rapidly spinning superconducting apparatus lost up to 2% of its weight. Although he was vilified by traditionalists who claimed that gravity-shielding was impossible under the known laws of physics, the US National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) attempted to replicate his work in the mid-1990s. Because NASA lacked Podkletnov's unique formula for the work, the attempt failed. NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama will shortly conduct a second set of experiments using apparatus built to Podkletnov's specifications. Boeing recently approached Podkletnov directly, but promptly fell foul of Russian technology transfer controls (Moscow wants to stem the exodus of Russian high technology to the West). The GRASP briefing document reveals that BAE Systems and Lockheed Martin have also contacted Podkletnov "and have some activity in this area". It is also possible, Boeing admits, that "classified activities in gravity modification may exist". The paper points out that Podkletnov is strongly anti-military and will only provide assistance if the research is carried out in the 'white world' of open development. 499 of 873 words [End of non-subscriber extract.] The full version of this article is accessible through our subscription services. Please refer to the box below for details. <snip> ** =A9 2002 Jane's Information Group. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 'Signs' Tops Box Office From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 04:38:29 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:50:20 -0400 Subject: 'Signs' Tops Box Office Source: BBC OnLine http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/entertainment/2173090.stm Stig *** Monday, 5 August, 2002, 09:47 GMT 10:47 UK Crop circle chiller tops box office ** The latest film from The Sixth Sense director M Night Shamalyan has shot to the top of the North American box office chart, taking $60.3m (=A338.4m) in its opening weekend. Signs, a sci-fi thriller starring Mel Gibson, focuses on a clergyman whose family are plagued by tragedy, aliens, and the appearance of mysterious crop circles in the fields around their house. It is the biggest ever opening weekend for both Gibson and Shamalyan, and is Gibson's second chart-topping film of 2002, following on from the Vietnam war drama We Were Soldiers. It also marks a return to the top of the box office chart for Disney, who have not had a number one film since Monsters Inc in November 2001. US and Canada weekend box office 1. Signs - $60.3m 2. Goldmember - $32.4 3. Master Of Disguise - $13.0m 4. Martin Lawrence Live: Runteldat - $7.5m 5. Road To Perdition - $6.6m 6. Stuart Little 2 - $6.0m 7. Men In Black II - $4.7m 8. My Big Fat Greek Wedding - $3.0m 9=3D K-19: The Widowmaker - $3.0m 9=3D The Country Bears - $3.0m Source: Exhibitor Relations Disney spokesman Chuck Viane credited the film's success on the originality of its script, saying there was little other challenging, intelligent fare currently showing. <snip> =A9
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: 'National Geographic' Article On Crop Circles From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:08:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:52:28 -0400 Subject: Re: 'National Geographic' Article On Crop Circles >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 18:59:31 +0200 >Subject: 'National Geographic' Article On Crop Circles >Source: National Geographic >http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0801_020801_cropcircles.html >Stig I've recently found a website by the guys that claim to be creating the circles (even the huge ones): http://www.circlemakers.org My question is this: Has anyone tested the soil or the oats in these man-made circles to see if the reported "cellular change" anomalies exist in them? Have any "positive" test results come from a circle that was later "claimed" by the circlemakers? It seems to me there was an incident a few years back when a respected cerealogist (or at least a high-profile one) proclaimed a circle "genuine" only to have the hoaxers step out of the shadows and "claim" a circle, even showing the technique they used. Did this incident not have an effect on the "not-of- this-earth" school? Just questions, from genuine curiosity. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Big Asteroid To Be Close Enough For Binoculars From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 06:19:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:53:35 -0400 Subject: Big Asteroid To Be Close Enough For Binoculars Source: CNN http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/08/05/asteroid.encounter/index.html Go to the page for projected sky path and NASA animation of orbit! Stig *** Big asteroid to be close enough for binoculars 'Flybys like this happen every 50 years or so' August 5, 2002 Posted: 10:41 AM EDT (1441 GMT) By Richard Stenger, CNN ** (CNN) -- An asteroid about a half mile (800 meters) across will soon pass close enough to Earth to observe with a small telescope or binoculars, astronomers said. The space rock, 2002 NY40, is not to be mistaken for 2002 NT7, another newly discovered asteroid that generated headlines last month when scientists briefly mused that it would smack into our planet in 2019. Further observations showed it almost certainly won't, nor will 2002 NY40, which later this month will glide to within 330,000 miles (530,000 km), slightly farther than the distance of the moon. For the first half of this month, 2002 NY40 will hardly change its position in the sky in the constellation Aquarius, a sign that the asteroid is heading in our direction. The big boulder will gradually creep north. On August 16, it will really begin to pick up its northerly pace. Two days later it will make its closest swing by Earth and be at its brightest, astronomers said. At the time, 2002 NY40 will be visible with strong binoculars or small telescopes. It will be 16 times dimmer than the faintest star visible with the naked eye, but for an asteroid, it is quite a shiner. "Flybys like this happen every 50 years or so," said NASA's Don Yeomans, who manages the space agency's Near-Earth Object Program at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. "Asteroids are hard to see because they're mostly black like charcoal. We don't know yet what this asteroid is made of but we'll have a much better [idea] by the end of August," he said in a statement. On the night of closest approach, 2002 NY40 will glide by Vega, one of the brightest stars. Sky watchers in the Southern Hemisphere will not have a good view. For North Americans, the best time to watch will be in the evening on August 17. For Europeans, it will be best to look up in the predawn hours of August 18. During the flyby, the asteroid will move every four minutes the same distance in the sky as the diameter of the moon. Soon afterward, its unlit side will face our planet and the asteroid will quickly dim, astronomers said. Scientists plan to make the most of the close encounter. Some will look at its reflected light spectrum to figure out its chemical makeup. Others will "ping" it with radio waves and study it with the giant Arecibo radar dish in Puerto Rico. Besides making three-dimensional maps, the radar observations can help determine whether the asteroid, whose orbit ranges from the inner solar system to the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, will pose a threat to Earth in the future. "At present, we know there's little risk of a collision with 2002 NY40 for decades," said Jon Giorgini, a JPL radar researcher. Afterwards, "we'll be able to extrapolate the asteroid's motion hundreds of years in the past and into the future." Astronomers first spotted the space rock on July 14, using the one-meter LINEAR (Lincoln Near Earth Asteroid Research) telescope in New Mexico. ** =A9 2002 Cable News Network LP, LLLP. An AOL Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Program Gives Access To Government Blocked Web From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 06:51:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:07:37 -0400 Subject: Program Gives Access To Government Blocked Web Source: International Herald Tribune http://www.iht.com/articles/66726.htm Stig *** Give Big Brother the slip Lee Dembart, International Herald Tribune Monday, August 5, 2002 A voice for the consumer ** PARIS A just-released program, available free on the Internet, holds the prospect of overcoming government restrictions on the Web, thereby allowing anybody in the world to read any Web page, even if it has been blocked. What's more, the program will make it impossible for the authorities to trace who is reading what online. The program is called Peekabooty. It was released in mid-July, and a test version of it is available from www.peekabooty.org. Peekabooty's goal is to create a constantly changing, worldwide peer-to-peer network that will enable people to do an end run around attempts to block Web sites. The implications of such a system are revolutionary. Here is how it works: Countries that limit their citizens' access to Web sites do so by blocking the Internet addresses of those sites. But someone using Peekabooty will be able to connect to the network - the Internet address of the connection will always change - and ask another computer in an unblocked country to download the desired Web site and pass it along. In a sense, this is like the decentralized network that exists with Kazaa or Morpheus, the popular music-swapping programs that have followed in the footsteps of Napster. But instead of trading files, Peekabooty users will simply transfer Web pages on the fly. Nothing is stored. What's more, the network will let people surf the Web completely anonymously. Everything will be encrypted to thwart snoopers, but the encryption has not yet been installed, so security cannot be guaranteed. The fully functioning Peekabooty network will also be like SETI@home, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence project, which has enlisted 3.5 million computer users to donate their machines' free time to search through mountains of noise from outer space in hope of finding a message sent by intelligent beings across the galaxies. As with SETI, for Peekabooty to work, it will need tens of thousands of people willing to install the software on their computers and make them available when they are not otherwise in use to be part of the network that passes along the forbidden sites, according to Paul Baranowski, creator of Peekabooty. "We've gotten 35,000 downloads since two weeks ago," Baranowski, 27, said last week by telephone from Toronto, where he has been working on the project for a year as a labor of love. "I was totally surprised," he said. "I was thinking like a couple of hundred." "People in censored countries really want this sort of thing, and people in noncensored countries think that they're being watched," he added. His colleague and self-described lieutenant, Joey deVilla, 34, said: "There are people very concerned about the curtailing of civil rights. Personal liberty has suddenly come to the forefront again, and the use of personal- liberty- enhancing technologies has suddenly become of interest to people." If you are interested in trying out Peekabooty, you must be running Windows Me, XP or 2000. For now, at least, Windows NT and 98 will not do. Go to peekabooty.org (note the .org - peekabooty.com is a porn site) and download Peek-A-Booty- Setup.exe. When you execute that file, it will install Peekabooty. You also need to download the list of other computers on the network, which you can find by clicking on the =93node database=94 at peekabooty.org. Download that list, rename the file host.lst and put it in the Program FilesPeekabooty folder. Then launch Peekabooty from the shortcut on your Desktop. The program will begin going down the list looking for active connections. When it makes one, it will show a bear icon circling your computer on the Peekabooty screen. If you encounter difficulties, send an e-mail to Baranowski from the Peekabooty Web site. He said he had been answering 40 to 50 e-mails a day, and he posts the answers to recurring questions on the site. It may have occurred to you that a network that enables people to surf the Web completely anonymously could be used by the bad guys to thwart law enforcement as well as by the good guys to thwart censorship. "Of course that's a legitimate concern," Baranowski said. But, he said, "There's plenty of tools that are designed to be malicious in many more ways than Peekabooty is. You'd have to modify Peekabooty so that it becomes malicious, in which case you're going through a lot of effort when you could just download one of the many scripts that are already out there." He said there was a link on the Web site for people to make donations, and about $800 has been received so far. Nonetheless, Baranowski said, "It's very fulfilling work." ** Copyright =A9 2002 The International Herald Tribune
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 NASA Officer Protects Against 'Alien Invaders' From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 06:59:16 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:10:06 -0400 Subject: NASA Officer Protects Against 'Alien Invaders' Source: Red Herring Magazine http://redherring.com/insider/2002/0801/rummel080102.html Stig *** PROFILE Space man John Rummel, NASA's planetary protection officer, protects all of the planets, all of the time. By Wendy Wolfson August 1, 2002 ** "And scattered about it, some in their overturned war-machines, some in the now rigid handling- machines, and a dozen of them stark and silent and laid in a row, were the Martians--dead!-- slain by the putrefactive and disease bacteria against which their systems were unprepared; slain as the red weed was being slain; slain, after all man's devices had failed, by the humblest things that God, in his wisdom, has put upon this earth." --H.G. Wells, The War of the Worlds John Rummel, the planetary protection officer at the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration, pulls his badge from his briefcase. Sporting an emblem from a science fiction TV show, SeaQuest DSV, it's hardly regulation issue for a government employee. But his job is hardly typical either. Mr. Rummel is on a mission to protect us from potential alien invaders and to protect potential alien life forms from us. NASA has embarked on a second golden age of planetary exploration, sending spacecraft to Mars and eventually to Jupiter's moon Europa, where there are signs of water--and the potential for life. Mr. Rummel's job is to ensure no unwanted germs make the trip, in either direction. As head of the International Committee on Space Research's panel on Planetary Protection, Mr. Rummel works with space agencies, scientists, and engineers to develop policies to prevent interplanetary contamination. As planetary protection officer, he must stay current on the latest scientific thinking about the nature of life on Earth and the potential for life elsewhere. He must also grasp the minutiae of spacecraft technology and be able to play well with others, including the NASA bureaucracy, Congress, and international scientific organizations. "Diplomacy is good when you have it," Mr. Rummel dead pans. As NASA's enforcer, he can yank the budgets of compliance violators and push the button to halt a launch. A sense of humor helps, too. To inspire good spacecraft hygiene practices, he had bumper stickers printed with the planetary protection motto: "All of the Planets, All of the time." Unfortunately, nobody knows exactly what sort of life this hygiene is protection against. The simplest possibility is that it's related to Earth life. According to a theory called panspermia, chunks of rubble blasted off Mars and Earth by asteroid collisions over the last 3.5 billion years may have ferried simple organisms between the planets. (Meteorites from Mars still fall to Earth regularly.) Then again, Mars may harbor novel life forms that biologists aren't geared up to detect. To cover all the bases, Mr. Rummel says, NASA will have to probe samples with a variety of chemical, isotopic, and molecular techniques, while keeping them in yet-to-be-designed, completely secure containment facilities. "It is simple prudence," says Mr. Rummel. "If there is life on Mars, you don't want astronauts finding out about it by getting sniffles on the way home." Mr. Rummel and his cohorts worry more about 'forward contamination'--homegrown microscopic hitchhikers infecting other worlds. "The whole point of the space exploration program is to know if there is life on other planets. The last thing that you want to do is to go to Mars to learn about micro? organisms from Florida," he says. Mr. Rummel received a Ph.D. in community ecology and evolution from Stanford University in 1985. A year later he started at NASA as a National Research Council research associate. Hoping to become an astronaut, he found himself studying potential alien life instead. For six years he ran NASA's exobiology program to understand the origin, evolution, and distribution of life in the universe. His other extraterrestrial-related duties included serving as the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) program scientist for both the life sciences and solar system exploration divisions, and leading the U.S. teams co-operating with Russian exobiology and astronaut life-support staff. An active-duty Navy flight officer for five years, Mr. Rummel is still a commander in the reserves. He left NASA in 1993 to become director of research administration and education at the Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. In 1997, he was recruited back to the agency to serve as planetary protection officer. During the week, he lives on a boat in a Washington, D.C., marina, commuting to Woods Hole to visit his family on weekends. Mr. Rummel's current job represents the flip side of his early work in exobiology (since rechristened astrobiology). Mr. Rummel's predecessor in planetary protection, Michael Meyer, explains that the astrobiology program wants extraterrestrial life samples, but the planetary protection officer has to put the brakes on to make sure the samples are securely wrapped. Because life-detection and sample-collection missions are a pressing goal of NASA's Mars program, Mr. Rummel must weigh the ethics and risks of bringing a contaminant from space to Earth against the benefits of gathering knowledge about extraterrestrial life and the costs of prevention. NASA decided in the early years of the space program that the Moon didn't need protection from earthly bugs because its surface is likely dead, but by the early '70s, the agency was spending about $4 million per year to sterilize spacecraft for Viking missions to Mars. To avoid contaminating its Mars life- detection experiments, NASA did everything short of encasing its spacecraft in condoms. Before the 1975 launch at Cape Canaveral, NASA cooked the Viking lander in its bioshield, like a big casserole dish, at more than 100?C for 54 hours in a giant oven. After Viking, a lull in Mars missions made planetary protection moot. In 1992, however, the National Research Council, spurred by the discovery of ever-stranger and hardier life forms here on Earth (like denizens of deep-sea hydrothermal vents and Deinococcus radiodurans, a bacterium that lives in the cooling towers of nuclear power plants), recommended strict forward- contamination requirements for future missions to Mars. "Some of the questions are not knowable until you do the mission," Mr. Rummel says. "The watchword of planetary protection is to be conservative when you are ignorant-- especially when you realize that you can do things that are irretrievable. You can contaminate a planet in a way that would ruin the reason why you went there in the first place." Based in Somerville, Massachusetts, Wendy Wolfson frequently writes about science and technology for magazines and radio. ** Copyright 2002 Red Herring Magazine
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 St. Louis UFO Might Be Secret Military Aircraft From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 07:16:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:11:26 -0400 Subject: St. Louis UFO Might Be Secret Military Aircraft Source: St. Louis Today, http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/747F2F7892CA803886256C0D0 00949EE?OpenDocument&Headline=Report%20says%20Metro%20East%20UFO%20might%20be%20 new%20military%20aircraft%20%20%20 Stig *** Report says Metro East UFO might be new military aircraft By Jeremy Kohler Of the Post-Dispatch 08/05/2002 08:35 PM ** Remember the huge, unidentified flying object that made national news two years ago when four Metro East-area police officers confirmed seeing it fly between Highland and Dupo in the middle of the night? A private research group that studies UFO sightings issued a study Monday suggesting it may have been a huge blimplike aircraft being tested by the U.S. military, perhaps for transporting enormous payloads or spying at extreme altitudes. The Pentagon never has acknowledged the existence of such an aircraft. The Las Vegas-based National Institute for Discovery Science said those witness accounts from Jan. 5, 2000, jibe with more than 150 sightings elsewhere of what some aerospace experts believe to be a huge military aircraft. The reports tended to be along flight paths between Air Force bases, the group said. The path of the UFO spotted here took it past Scott Air Force Base, said Colm Kelleher, an administrator with the research group. After the sighting, the air base said the only knowledge it had of the UFO sighting was from news reports. Representatives from the base did not return a phone call seeking comment Monday. "Our investigator was rebuffed by several people he interviewed at Scott," Kelleher said. "That's not surprising if we're talking about a classified aircraft." The four police officers, one each from Lebanon, Shiloh, Millstadt and Dupo, got national media attention after confirming they saw a bright object described as a "floating house with bright red and white lights." Their dispatcher had alerted them to look skyward about 4 a.m., based on a call from a businessman in Highland. Tapes of police radio conversations between the officers reflected their surprise, but no clear photo surfaced after the sighting. Investigators with the UFO research group flew to the St. Louis area and interviewed witnesses, Kelleher said. He said his group started in 1995 and employs a dozen former law enforcement officers and scientists to investigate sightings. The group believes the aircraft, which it calls a "big black delta," could be powered by airborne nuclear power units which would allow it to fly at extreme altitudes, high above conventional aircraft and the pulsing of ground-based traffic control radar. Except for slight humming from high-voltage control equipment, it would make no noise, the group said. Kelleher suggested that such an aircraft might be deflated for transport and stored with little notice. He said the group tapped experts in the aerospace industry who helped it develop the hypothesis about a military blimp. He declined to identify the experts. "What we don't have is a smoking gun - that would be someone involved in building one of these," Kelleher said. ** Reporter Jeremy Kohler: E-mail: jkohler@post-dispatch.com Phone: 314-340-8337
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles - Anderson From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 06:40:28 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:13:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles - Anderson >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:11:12 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Here's A Brand-New Crop Of Circles >I saw the movie. The one close up of the field showed corn stocks >bent at 90 degree angles... looked broken to me. >The true anomalies, different directions of circulation at >different layers of stalks, curved bends, plants keep growing, >and no evidence of footprints or scraping damage to plants... >were not emphasized. Nor are these mentioned in most of the >(naive) newspaper stories that emphasize the entertainment >aspects of the phenomenon. >One person pointed out that a complex agriglyph could take up to >10 people to make. The implication is that this can be done >without leaving any evidence of human activity. >I wonder..... Well put Bruce, I agree! The article also refers to (all) Canadian circles as being 'rustic' in appearance. As I noted in the previous post a few days ago responding to a similar comment, this is not true. Yes, some are, like the recent Ontario ones, but many are not, with tight, crisp lays and edges, complex layering, in tramlineless fields with no tracks, etc., as good as many you will see in Europe. It is mostly just the shapes/designs which have remained simpler. Paul Anderson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Holes In Clouds On History Channel - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 03:18:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:18:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Holes In Clouds On History Channel - Velez >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:38:09 -0300 >Subject: Holes In Clouds On History Channel >I have had an inquiry from an American who saw something strange >in The History Channel Alien Invasion program on Saturday. It was >just before introducing a possible relationship between crop >circles and stone circles and just before the first mention of >Stonehenge. >For two seconds you could, supposedly, see a clear pattern in >the clouds at the top of the screen, slightly left of center. >There was a heavy cloud cover split by a straight line that >connected a series of large perfectly round holes in the >clouds..... He claims there was no way it could have been >natural. >The US History Channel isn't shown in Canada. Did anybody on the >List, see and perhaps tape, the program? Could have been shown >before. It would, I gather, have been very easy to miss because >the context would have viewers looking at the ground not the >sky. Hiya Stan, It's a cute bit of synchronicity that recently, someone sent me two photos of clouds with 'holes' and 'streaks' all over them. I have no idea if the photos were taken from, or have any relationship to, the ones shown on the History Channel crop-circle program. I can tell you that the patterns depicted in these photos are not as ordered as the ones you described. If they were caused by passing UFOs (as the person who submitted them to me believes) it would have to have been a whole fleet of em moving along at what Mel Brooks refers to as, "Ludicrous speed". Based on what I see in the photos, I wouldn't categorize them as depicting UFOs, however. I will send copies of them to you privately under separate cover. Let me know what _you_ make of them. If it wasn't for the fact that the odd streaks and holes are restricted to the clouds alone (the background sky appears clean - free of streaks and 'holes') I would explain it as schmutz on the lens or introduced during processing. Interesting pix. Although I have no idea what to make of them. For the Listerions: I am not posting the pictures to the web because they are not my property. I don't think the person who sent them to me would mind if I show them to one or two research people of Stan's caliber and reputation. I'll ask for permission. If it is granted, I'll post the pictures to the Web so that everybody can check them out. No 'great shakes' though. Just pictures of what appear to be 'dirty' clouds. :) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Thomas Mantell & Peer Review - Velez From: John <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 03:20:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:19:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Thomas Mantell & Peer Review - Velez >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 13:35:46 EDT >Subject: Thomas Mantell & Peer Review >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Good Afternoon All - >For those keeping score at home, I have received a package of >material from CUFOS containing the documents to which Richard >Hall referred. While interesting, I don't think they alter the >perception that Mantell chased a balloon. However, I'll add this >material to the article about Mantell which will also contain >the exact and complete statements of the men in the tower during >the attempted intercept and as much information as possible from >the accident investigation report. I hope to have all this done >in the near future. Hello Kevin, Looking forward to it, and thank you. It'll always have a home at the VSN UpDates archive for any and all interested parties. Now, and for the future. I think that the jury is still out on the Mantell case. It's great to see it resurrected from time to time for a proper review/update. John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Debunking The Debunkers - Morton From: David E. Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 05:13:04 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:25:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Debunking The Debunkers - Morton >From: David D. Furlotte <Furry@nobelmed.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:19:05 -0400 >Subject: Debunking The Debunkers >Dear Listers, I've decided that enough is enough and it is >time to challenge the debunkers within the ufological >community. However, unlike the debunkers who like to proclaim >without benefit of investigation what the answer is to any UFO >sighting, I prefer to do a little research so it can clearly be >seen how wrong the debunkers can be. <snip> >David (Furry) Furlotte David, If you cast your pearls before pelicans, they will consume them, and cast them into the sea. And the treasure of the sea floor shall increase and become great. But the pelicans will return, harrassing you and demanding more pearls; for their understanding of treasure is weak. Dave Morton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Fund for UFO Research Site Back On-Line From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 06:50:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:28:02 -0400 Subject: Fund for UFO Research Site Back On-Line The Fund for UFO Research web site is back on line. I would add that while UUNET is still experiencing periodic hiccups, it appears to be mostly stable. The report on the F-16 chase near Washington has now been converted to a web page, as opposed to a Word/WordPad document. We also hope to post an audio clip from WTOP that features one of their updated reports. Until it is made available on that site, I would like to make it available at www.konsulting.com/f-16.wav This .wav file is 438KB in size Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: St. Louis UFO Might Be Secret Military From: Kathleen Anderson <KAnder6444@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:52:18 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 11:07:21 -0400 Subject: Re: St. Louis UFO Might Be Secret Military >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk>> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 07:16:37 +0200 >Subject: St. Louis UFO Might Be Secret Military Aircraft >Source: St. Louis Today, >A private research group that studies UFO sightings issued a >study Monday suggesting it may have been a huge blimplike >aircraft being tested by the U.S. military, perhaps for >transporting enormous payloads or spying at extreme altitudes. A couple of years ago I reported that a customer of mine who worked at the FAA reported they were briefed about a new aircraft that had blimp type capabilities, could carry an outrageous payload and could literally come off one parking lot and fly to another. The original design was being investigated for commercial purposes... hauling consumer goods from warehouse to parking lot and eliminate ground transportation. And when they meant warehouse they meant for example Samsung in Korea to Costco in Kirkland as it had long range capabilities. I never could find it in the aircraft news. Perhaps it was too successful and the government saw a purpose for it and added some modifications. Kathleen Andersen Seattle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:48:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 11:14:20 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight 'Crop Circles: In Search of a Sign' "For twenty years, crop circles appeared with increasing frequency in crops around the world. Hoaxers stepped forward, but how could they create so many complex circles? Follow scientists, astronomers, and archaeologists as they examine crop circles." Tuesday, August 6, 2002 TLC at 6:00 PM and 9:00 PM [Pacific] Friday, August 10, 2002 TLC at 3:00 PM (repeat, check time) Check local listings for your time zone Dave Pengilly UFO*BC - dave@ufobc.ca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:48:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 12:51:48 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:00:05 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & ANG >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 17:13:18 -0500 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & ANG >>>From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 19:43:11 -0700 >>>Subject: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & ANG >>If my memory is correct, there used to be a regulation that made >>it a criminal offense for a member of the armed forces to >>discuss unsolved UFO cases involving the military, but made it >>OK to talk about cases that had officially been assigned a >>prosaic explanation. Does anyone know if that regulation or one >>Like it is still in effect? I'm wondering if some such >>regulation could account for the differences Kenny Young noted >>in how this case has been handled by the Air Force and how the >>previous explained incident with the off-course private plane >>was handled. >Lan, Kenny: >A successful intercept of an off-course plane is not a UFO, but >demonstrates that our defenses are working. >An unsuccessful intercept of a radar return which just >disapeared, possibly as "anomolous propogation", as Phil Klass >has suggested, is also probably not considered a UFO by the >USAF. >Before anybody makes too much out of a lack of information or >seeming contradictions between spokespeople who probably weren't >there, themselves, remember that it's wartime. A war in which >hostilities began with a successful air attack on the Pentagon. >Of course, I realize that your flying saucer hobby takes >precedence over defence of the nation's capitol in the middle of >a war, but that's probably just too bad. Bob, I think you mispelled it: Isn't it anopocsicopian crapulation? It happens uniquely when hot air rises over Phil Klass's apartment in Washington, D.C. Thanks for the patriotic lecture. We'll expect you to cease debunking immediately and head for the "front lines," c[r]ap gun at the ready. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Roswell Proof Website Launched - Vetterick From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:50:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 13:19:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Proof Website Launched - Vetterick >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:36:20 -0700 >Subject: Roswell Proof Website Launched >My Website on the Roswell incident is up and running: >www.roswellproof.homestead.com >Some highlights: >A graphic of the two key phrases in the Ramey message -- this is >all you need to see to forever dismiss a balloon explanation: >www.roswellproof.homestead.com/critical_phrases.html >My rendition of the _complete_ Ramey teletype message, including >graphics and a detailing of my methodology in attacking it: >www.roswellproof.homestead.com/reconstruct.html >www.roswellproof.homestead.com/methodology.html <snip> Congratulations to David on his excellent work and Website. I urge everyone to take a look. Hopefully, this will stir things up a bit and generate some new information. Dave Vetterick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:56:09 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:33:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:14:47 +1000 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:13:42 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 01:44:59 +1000 >>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case <snip> >I was curious as to why a Skeptic (assuming you are a Skeptic, >Bob), would conversely spend as much time & effort to disprove & >deny their existence. That would not be possible, since one can never prove a negative. Actually, my particular interest is in the astronomical and related stimuli for many UFO reports, and how that happens. >Have you ever wondered and self-examined >why you are so determined to disprove them? I'm not into Marxist self-examination or Scientological auditing. I am curious, myself, about why you ask? Would you even consider asking any of the other denizens of the list why they are on it, or are financial motives or the motives of believers just easier to understand? >Have you ever had weird dreams, relating to UFO's/ET's or >missing time, Bob? I have had episodes of missing time, when thoughts about ETs entered my conciousness, but that seems to be only when I'm on UFO Lists. Other than waking once with a wierd buzzing that turned out to be the snooze alarm, can't recall any. >Could it be possible that we are both abductee's? My >sub-conscious memories leading me to search for the truth as my >brain (left side) is quite willing to know, whilst your brain >(left side) denies the truth (maybe for good reasons) and tries >to bury the experience deeper in your sub-conscious mind? Have you ever read Gogol's Lost Souls? When yes means no and no means yes you got a possible glitch, big time. You may need more than a self-proclaimed UFO hypnotherapist. <snip> >>>And of course one could argue conversely that there are possibly >>>over 26,000 years of UFO evidence if you study the snapshots >>>of the past from the Artists who recorded sightings of flying >>>craft, lights and stories of them. >>I'll take snapshots with a camera, please. >Well, they were the camera's of the period, Bob. No they weren't. There were no cameras. Why do you think that most art was about belief? >Just as Scribes were the tape recorders! Do you believe the >Bible is accurate? About what? People or animals coming first, or the Flood being 40 days long or was it 1 year long (see Chapters 1 vs. 2 of Genesis), or all of the life forms in pairs, or is it 7 pairs of only "clean" animals, all piled into the vessel piloted by a being called Noah? Or pi being 3? Hard to build a flying saucer that way, the middle wouldn't touch the rim. But that never bothers believers. I don't think so. Clear skies, Bob Young Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. -- Carl Sagan
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:56:14 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:36:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Jean van Gemert <j.vangemert@chello.nl> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 15:06:11 +0200 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:40 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case <snip> >Parsimony, lovely. Of course, it can easily backfire when your >suggested prosaic resolution to a case requires more >coincidences/"entities" than taking the case at face value Hi, Jean: Really? Postulating extraterrestrial aliens, which by the way have never, ever been proven to have visited the Earth, is more parsimonious that postulating an often occurring more prosaic explanation? Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:56:13 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:35:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:57:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:53:37 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case <snip> >Since you're now citing this case as an example of how IFOs can >become perceived as UFOs, could you perhaps offer your account >of the process? I'm asking because I've twice before asked you >to give an account of such a mechanism, and both times you've >declined to do so. Cathy: I believe that I said that I haven't the faintest idea how this occurs. Your're the psychological expert, you tell me. I've witnessed two guys looking at stars for two hours and thinking that they are flying saucers because autokinetic motion caused them to move around. When I suggested to one that he look in the sky the next day in the same place, he saw then again and agreed that what he saw were the bright stars of the Summer Triangle. The physiology of the eye played a part, and belief and cultural conditioning played some part in it (otherwise, why would they have thought they were UFOs?), as well as the fact that his companion saw saucers every time he came to the observatory. I'm an amateur astronomer, not a shrink. You tell me. And don't tell me that unless each and every witness who claims to have seen spaceships from wherever has been tested by shrinks we must accept their claims unless disproven. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 12:35:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:38:25 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:00:05 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - Continued Inquiries With NORAD & ANG >Of course, I realize that your flying saucer hobby takes >precedence over defence of the nation's capitol in the middle of >a war, but that's probably just too bad. Oh, so you're saying that unless we pretend not to notice what appear to be glaring inconsistencies in official military pronouncements, "the terrorists win"? How Ashcroftian.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 6 Mallorca: Undersea UFO Base Blamed For Mysterious From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 19:41:19 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:39:54 -0400 Subject: Mallorca: Undersea UFO Base Blamed For Mysterious Source: Agencia EFE (Spanish News Agency) via COMTEX, Stig *** Undersea noises mystify Mallorcans Story Filed: Monday, August 05, 2002 5:05 AM EST ** Palma de Mallorca, Aug 05, 2002 (EFE via COMTEX) - Sailors, skin divers and fishermen have all heard them. Strange, persistent noises from under the waters off Mallorca's northern coast. Nobody knows what they are or who's making them. "It's this very shrill sound, like some distant machinery, but so intense that you think wherever they're coming from must be only a few yards away," EFE was told by Josep Amengual, a three- times scuba fishing champion. The noise can be even be heard if one's ears are just above the surface when the sea is calm but is restricted to the zone between the offshore islet of La Dragonera and Cape Formentor, on the northwestern coast of the largest of Spain's Balearic island chain. That much is all the Palma-based Center for Undersea Research and Activity says it is prepared to confirm, though it admits its staff knows of no precedent for the phenomenon reported by dozens of its members. Another scuba fisherman, Toni Carbonell, said "it repeats itself every six or seven seconds and makes a noise like what a giant metal tube would make if it were to fall from a height onto the ground". At least one fish species appears to be bothered by the disturbing noises but seasoned fishermen who ply these waters say there has been no major change in the quantity or type of catch they have been hauling in over the past few months. Totally tentative explanations being put forward to account for the mystery noise include underwater oil prospecting on Spain's coastal shelf near Tarragona, some 500 kilometers (350 miles) distant, to construction work going on somewhere further along the north coast of Mallorca. As it happens, since the early 1970s that same stretch of coastline has been the site of repeated UFO sightings, and published reports dating as far back as 1978 claim that flying saucers were spotted emerging from an undersea base off the town of S}ller. Saucer buff Mat]as Morey said that long before the noises were detected, several "experts" had demonstrated grounds for concluding that an undersea UFO base existed some 1,000 to 1,500 yards offshore between Punta Cala Roja y Es Morro de sa Vaca. On the other side of are those who insist all that is needed is for the Mallorcan research center to be given the funding needed to record the sounds and access the professional expertise and equipment required for a detailed analysts of its characteristics "There's no such thing as an inexplicable phenomenon," says Joan Miquel Batle, an expert on undersea acoustics. "Everything has a logical, scientific explanation, it's just that sometimes we don't know what it is." ** nal/bl/jim http://www.efe.es Copyright (c) 2002. Agencia EFE S.A. Copyright =A9 2002, Agencia EFE, all rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 16:58:23 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:31:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:56:09 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:14:47 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:13:42 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>>From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 01:44:59 +1000 >>>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case <snip> >I don't think so. >Clear skies, >Bob Young >Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. >-- Carl Sagan The extraordinary claims are those made by the noisey negativists such as Carl. For example claiming that while "there are interesting sightings that are not reliable, and reliable sightings that are not interesting, there are no interesting and reliable sightings." The exact opposite is true. Or like Don Menzel claiming that all "unexplained sightings are by poor observers"... fact is the better the quality of the observation the more likely to be unexplained..... The list of utterly false anti-UFO claims is very long. What Carl should have said was that extraodinary claims require extraordinary investigations. The noisey negativists don't provide them. They provide proclamations and character assasinations. Those of us who do make extraordinary claims about the reality of some UFOs as alien spacecraft and the reality of the coverup of loads of UFO data by US government agencies, do extraordinary investigations. It would appear that Bob and other negativists are projecting on to the real investigators their own inadequacies. That is their problem. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Secret 1970 NASA Report On UFOs Outside Apollo From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 22:29:02 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:33:22 -0400 Subject: Secret 1970 NASA Report On UFOs Outside Apollo Source: Moon Pigeons http://members.aol.com/moonpigeons/ The report is 33 pages long + an appendix, so I'll only give you James Oberg's introduction and the foreword to the report. Stig *** Moon Pigeons and other unidentified visual phenomena associated with space flight ** The following pages are from an Apollo-era NASA report provided by James Oberg to be made available on the internet primarily as an instructive tool for those interested in moving objects photographed near inflight spacecraft. Unfortunately an original copy of the report could not be obtained and the photographs in this copy are unusable and were not included here. Attempts will be made to obtain usable photographs for inclusion at a later date. Though the original format of the report has been altered for these web pages, the text is complete and unedited. The text was converted to ascii format using OCR software and errors produced by it have been corrected when found. Spelling errors and typographical errors in the original report have not been corrected here. ***** FOREWORD This report presents the results of image analysis of an unidentified object seen by millions of viewers during an Apollo 12 television transmission. Visual phenomena associated with space flights have been observed previously. Positive identification of these objects is normally accomplished through analysis of their images recorded on film when available. Often positive identification is not possible and "tentative" interpretation must be made. "Moon Pigeon" is a term coined by MSC structural engineers to describe unexpected objects seen in operational photography that defy positive identification. Subsequent mission flight plans usually include photographic sequences designed to provide sufficient information to identify the phenomena should it occur again. With respect to this study, preliminary interpretations have tentatively "identified" this visual event as spacecraft debris associated with an earlier pyrotechnical operation, or ice, or window reflections. Cases for each of these theories have been presented and exhibits of similar occurences are included. Positive identification was not possible. This report was prepared by Lockheed Electronics Company, Houston Aerospace Systems Division, under Contract NAS 9-5191 in response to Job Order 63-2616-2124 (Action Document 21-3), issued by the Mapping Sciences Laboratory in support of a request initiated by the Chief of Mission Planning and Analysis Division (MPAD). The report was prepared by F. D. Beatty and J. G. Baron with technical assistance from B. Buckley, W. Daley, T. Johnson, D. Kinsler, L. Pearl, R. Pinter, M. Schoenberg and S. Topiwalla of the mapping Sciences Department and R. Kassay of Raytheon/Autometric Operation. Editing was performed by J. R. Donaldson. The authors wish to express their appreciation to the following people: D. Camp, M. Conover, J. Davis E. Dickinson, D. Gardner, P. Glynn, D. Goldenbaum, O. Graham, B. Hill, W. Hoyer, D. Incerto, W. Kunkel, W. Langdoc, J. Mayer, E. Morrison, J. Stamps, J. Teague, M. Wents, C. Wheelright, M. Williamson and R. Young for their cooperation, support and interest, without which this report would not have been possible. Special acknowledgement is given to Messrs. A. W. Patteson, L. C. Wade and G. Gutschewski of the Mapping Sciences laboratory for reading the manuscript and offering their suggestions and comments, many of which have been incorporated into this report.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 22:08:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:35:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:56:13 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case Bob: >I believe that I said that I haven't the faintest idea how this >occurs. Your're the psychological expert, you tell me. Ok, Bob, let's say someone were to come along and announce that they had a theory of how black holes work. Except that they then admit they haven't the faintest idea about anything to do with astronomy or physics, and not much interest in either. Just how convincing do you think their claims would sound? >I've witnessed two guys looking at stars for two hours and >thinking that they are flying saucers because autokinetic motion >caused them to move around. When I suggested to one that he >look in the sky the next day in the same place, he saw then >again and agreed that what he saw were the bright stars of the >Summer Triangle. Yes, this sort of thing isn't exactly stunning news to me, you know. >The physiology of the eye played a part, and belief and cultural >conditioning played some part in it (otherwise, why would they >have thought they were UFOs?), as well as the fact that his >companion saw saucers every time he came to the observatory. Ok, that's a start. But even this sort of insight isn't much use unless you know something about the boundaries of the process - what sort of stimuli can give rise to what sorts of reports, under what sorts of conditions, etc. >I'm an amateur astronomer, not a shrink. What do shrinks have to do with it? >You tell me. >And don't tell me that unless each and every witness who claims >to have seen spaceships from wherever has been tested by shrinks >we must accept their claims unless disproven. I'm not interested in the un-critical acceptance of any claims, yours or anyone else's - and I've certainly never said anything about people being "tested by shrinks". What I'm interested in is that we stick to the principles of science, one of which is that who asserts must prove. If you want to postulate that some particular UFO report is the result of a misidentification, you're welcome to do so, but you have the responsibility not to postulate error-generating mechanisms which are inconsistent with the way human visual perception and memory actually operate. If you think you can do this without having the slightest understanding of how visual perception and memory actually operate, then I find it hard to take you seriously. Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 01:17:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:37:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:33:01 +0100 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case Hello again John, I'm afraid I'm late replying to this one, I kind of got side-tracked on to some other stuff. >I accept your point that eyewitness testimony is sufficient to >establish the existence of a phenomenon known as "ball >lightning". But that in a way is as unsatisfactory as having a >phenomenon which can be identified as a "UFO". Eyewitness >testimony also establishes that there is a phenomena to which >the name of "ghost" is given, but this does not prevent ghosts >from being far from a proven fact. I suggest that far more >people have seen ghosts than seen ball-lightning! This could be true, I don't doubt you know far more than I do about ghosts - although it may also be that ball lightning is under-reported, and the actual frequency of the phenomenon is much higher than it seems. But it seems to me this is making the same mistake all over again. What reason do we have to assume that whatever psychological mechanisms are involved in the perception of ghosts are also involved in the perception of ball lightning? And how relevant is it that ghosts are reported more often than ball lightning (assuming they are?) It seems to me that a widely reported phenomenon which might be easily accountable using known psychological mechanisms, would be much less significant evidentially, than a less widely reported phenomenon for which the visual and memory system supported no such explanation. >Ball lighting is a much less controversial phenomenon that >ghosts, but it is not yet entirely above dispute as to its >nature. I guess I was rather surprised that a scientist would >appear to have based his opinion on the phenomenon entirely on >reports of eyewitnesses. I would have expected more of an >explanation or qualification. I guess ball lightning has been less controversial because many plasma theoreticians have seen it as a challenging problem (which makes it kind of ironic that according to latest theories ball lightning isn't a plasma at all). The question I would want to ask here is in what way, and why, should eye-witness evidence be seen as less reliable than physical evidence? What is the underlying logic supporting this proposition? >Had he said "I have heard several eyewitness reports about >people seeing unidentified flying objects and I have no doubt >that they exist", in a way this would be a completely accurate >statement, but I would not expect such a claim to be made >without qualification. If it had, it would certainly have been >jumped upon by the reporter. Yes, probably. Even science has its own internal politics. >A number of people have attempted to explain the sorts of >perceptual errors which may have generated reports of ball >lightning. It is not a subject I have studied in any great >detail, except to be aware that - at least until fairly recently > - it was not universally accepted by the scientific community. There have been a few rather unconvincing suggestions - after- images due to bright lightning flashes, for example - but as far as I know, no serious attempts which are consistent both with the realites of human visual perception and the perceived properties of ball lightning. >I >am not arguing the rights and wrongs of the case, just noting >that this was the position. Ok. >I quite agree that simply saying "Well, sometimes witnesses >identify the wrong defendant in a police line-up" isn't good >enough. But neither is presenting one case where a young child >successfully identified a criminal as evidence that eyewitness >testimony is invariably infallible. I think that was someone else's discussion, so I'll stay out of that. <snip> >Certainly, and it would be more productive if this discussion >were about what that threshold of evidence might be in different >cases and under different conditions, father than arguing for an >absolutist position, or accusing others of adopting an >absolutist position. That sounds like a good idea, and I'd like to participate in that sort of discussion if it ever happened. One of the reasons I joined this List - apart from hoping Jenny Randles might be on it, since she's definitely my favorite writer on UFOs - was that I was hoping I might be able to apply my perspective as a theoretician and vision researcher to just these sorts of questions. Ok, here's an off-the-wall example. In their book "The Anthropic Cosmological Principle" (OUP 1986) Barrow and Tipler write the following on the subject of the Fermi Paradox: "...The general conclusion that the Galaxy would be completely explored/colonized within one billion years after the first appearance of a technological species which embarks on such a programme, is essentially model-independent." In other words, if space-traveling aliens existed , *or ever had existed* in our Galaxy, they should have been here by now. B&T go on to say: "...It follows from the absence of ETI in our Solar System that such space-travelling ETI apparently do not exist, and have never existed in our Galaxy." Now, as a theoretician, I find this absolutely fascinating. The reason is, that the ETH for UFOs (and yes, I do know that the ETH isn't the only possible explanation for UFOs) has usually been phrased in terms of a null hypothesis that ETI does not exist in our solar system. The null hypothesis of the B&T argument, however, is entirely the reverse - their null hypothesis is necessarily that ETI *does* exist in our solar system - this is the hypothesis which must be disproved if B&T's argument is to be established. For unreconstructed Bayesians like me, this is highly significant. It means that the baseline probability against which the ETH should be assessed is potentially quite different from the one that has generally be assumed. Now twenty years or so ago, I doubt if many people bothered all that much about the Fermi Paradox. These days though, I doubt if you'd find many people outside the SETI community - who have a vested interest in brushing it under the carpet - who didn't find it at least a little problematic. But if Fermi's Paradox has bite, then the implications for the baseline probability against which the ETH should be evaluated have bite too. Am I the only one who finds this interesting? Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Boeing Are Not Funding Anti-Gravity Research? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 06:04:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:54:09 -0400 Subject: Boeing Are Not Funding Anti-Gravity Research? Source: SPACE.com http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/gravity_research_020731.h= tml Stig *** Gravity Shielding Still Science Fiction, Boeing Says By Jim Banke Senior Producer, Cape Canaveral Bureau posted: 02:25 pm ET 31 July 2002 ** CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - Artificial gravity on spaceships and rockets levitating themselves into orbit will remain the stuff of science fiction for some time to come, despite recent reports in Europe that researchers with U.S. aerospace giant Boeing are working on the concept. According to a report by Nick Cook of Jane's Defense World (JDW) - published this week in Europe - Boeing Phantom Works scientists admitted they were working on experimental anti- gravity projects that could change the way humanity moves around the planet. Jane's quoted from a Boeing document entitled "Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion" (GRASP) it had obtained that said "If gravity modification is real, it will alter the entire aerospace business." The document also said, according to the report, that Boeing was actively seeking out the collaboration of Evgeny Podkletnov, a Russian scientist well known among gravity researchers who has experimented with the technology in Russia and Finland. Almost true, Boeing told SPACE.com Wednesday in a prepared statement. "We are aware of Podkletnov's work on 'anti-gravity' devices and would be interested in seeing further development work being done. However, Boeing is not funding any activities in this area at this time," the statement said. "The recent report that we are is based on a misinterpretation of information. For instance, GRASP is not a codename for a current project but rather an acronym for a presentation entitled "Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion," in which a Boeing engineer explains Podkletnov's theory and proposes that we should continue to monitor this work and perhaps even conduct some low-cost experiments to further assess its plausibility. No steps have been taken beyond this point by Boeing." According to Cook's report, the GRASP document made these observations about Podkletnov's work: 1) An anti-gravity beam four inches (10 centimeters) wide has been demonstrated in Russia, successfully repelling objects more than a half- mile (1 kilometer) away with negligible power loss. 2)Such technology could be engineered into a new weapons system capable of vaporizing objects. 3)Objects placed over a rapidly spinning disc of superconducting material lost up to 2 percent of its weight, a feat NASA was unable to replicate during the 1990s but plans to try again soon using hardware built to Podkletnov=92s specifications. The Boeing paper also states that "classified activities in gravity modification may exist" and that Podkletnov is against the military use of this technology, according to the report by Cook. ** =A9 2002 SPACE.com, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - August 7, 2002 From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 01:23:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:57:29 -0400 Subject: Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - August 7, 2002 D I S C L O S U R E 2 0 0 3 MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett Campaign Update - August 7, 2002 To: PRG/X-PPAC/D2003 mail list and selected UFO/ET media In Maryland independent candidates must obtain nominating signatures from 1% of the registered voters in their district in order to be on the November ballot. This nominating petition process was completed on August 5, 2002. At that time 5177 nominating signatures were delivered to the Maryland State Board of Elections to meet the legal requirement for ballot access (3373). The Election Board recommends that 20% additional signatures be submitted to account for invalidations. Disclosure2003 submitted an additional 53% - 2 and 1/2 times the recommended amount. Notification of ballot certification is expected within about 10 days. A national press release and press conference was put off pending the completion of the signature certification process by the local election board. When placement on the November congressional ballot is secured, the real campaign will begin. All of this was made possible by 20 volunteers now actively working with the campaign. It is hoped this number will double by the September 10 party primaries and double again by election day, November 5. Contributions from all over the country have been coming in. Letters of thanks will go out shortly Also, many thanks to those who have written letters to the Washington metro media - there have been many. The Disclosure2003 campaign is on schedule and ready to move ahead. It is only limited by the amount of support it receives from those who want the UFO/ET truth embargo to end. Regards, Stephen Bassett _________________________________________________ Transparent government, private citizenry _________________________________________________ Campaign Headquarters Bethesda/Gaithersburg 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 Phone: 202-431-2459 Fax: 301-990-1099 Email: Disclosure2003@aol.com Website: www.disclosure2003.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 01:17:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 07:37:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:33:01 +0100 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case Hello again John, I'm afraid I'm late replying to this one, I kind of got side-tracked on to some other stuff. >I accept your point that eyewitness testimony is sufficient to >establish the existence of a phenomenon known as "ball >lightning". But that in a way is as unsatisfactory as having a >phenomenon which can be identified as a "UFO". Eyewitness >testimony also establishes that there is a phenomena to which >the name of "ghost" is given, but this does not prevent ghosts >from being far from a proven fact. I suggest that far more >people have seen ghosts than seen ball-lightning! This could be true, I don't doubt you know far more than I do about ghosts - although it may also be that ball lightning is under-reported, and the actual frequency of the phenomenon is much higher than it seems. But it seems to me this is making the same mistake all over again. What reason do we have to assume that whatever psychological mechanisms are involved in the perception of ghosts are also involved in the perception of ball lightning? And how relevant is it that ghosts are reported more often than ball lightning (assuming they are?) It seems to me that a widely reported phenomenon which might be easily accountable using known psychological mechanisms, would be much less significant evidentially, than a less widely reported phenomenon for which the visual and memory system supported no such explanation. >Ball lighting is a much less controversial phenomenon that >ghosts, but it is not yet entirely above dispute as to its >nature. I guess I was rather surprised that a scientist would >appear to have based his opinion on the phenomenon entirely on >reports of eyewitnesses. I would have expected more of an >explanation or qualification. I guess ball lightning has been less controversial because many plasma theoreticians have seen it as a challenging problem (which makes it kind of ironic that according to latest theories ball lightning isn't a plasma at all). The question I would want to ask here is in what way, and why, should eye-witness evidence be seen as less reliable than physical evidence? What is the underlying logic supporting this proposition? >Had he said "I have heard several eyewitness reports about >people seeing unidentified flying objects and I have no doubt >that they exist", in a way this would be a completely accurate >statement, but I would not expect such a claim to be made >without qualification. If it had, it would certainly have been >jumped upon by the reporter. Yes, probably. Even science has its own internal politics. >A number of people have attempted to explain the sorts of >perceptual errors which may have generated reports of ball >lightning. It is not a subject I have studied in any great >detail, except to be aware that - at least until fairly recently > - it was not universally accepted by the scientific community. There have been a few rather unconvincing suggestions - after- images due to bright lightning flashes, for example - but as far as I know, no serious attempts which are consistent both with the realites of human visual perception and the perceived properties of ball lightning. >I >am not arguing the rights and wrongs of the case, just noting >that this was the position. Ok. >I quite agree that simply saying "Well, sometimes witnesses >identify the wrong defendant in a police line-up" isn't good >enough. But neither is presenting one case where a young child >successfully identified a criminal as evidence that eyewitness >testimony is invariably infallible. I think that was someone else's discussion, so I'll stay out of that. <snip> >Certainly, and it would be more productive if this discussion >were about what that threshold of evidence might be in different >cases and under different conditions, father than arguing for an >absolutist position, or accusing others of adopting an >absolutist position. That sounds like a good idea, and I'd like to participate in that sort of discussion if it ever happened. One of the reasons I joined this List - apart from hoping Jenny Randles might be on it, since she's definitely my favorite writer on UFOs - was that I was hoping I might be able to apply my perspective as a theoretician and vision researcher to just these sorts of questions. Ok, here's an off-the-wall example. In their book "The Anthropic Cosmological Principle" (OUP 1986) Barrow and Tipler write the following on the subject of the Fermi Paradox: "...The general conclusion that the Galaxy would be completely explored/colonized within one billion years after the first appearance of a technological species which embarks on such a programme, is essentially model-independent." In other words, if space-traveling aliens existed , *or ever had existed* in our Galaxy, they should have been here by now. B&T go on to say: "...It follows from the absence of ETI in our Solar System that such space-travelling ETI apparently do not exist, and have never existed in our Galaxy." Now, as a theoretician, I find this absolutely fascinating. The reason is, that the ETH for UFOs (and yes, I do know that the ETH isn't the only possible explanation for UFOs) has usually been phrased in terms of a null hypothesis that ETI does not exist in our solar system. The null hypothesis of the B&T argument, however, is entirely the reverse - their null hypothesis is necessarily that ETI *does* exist in our solar system - this is the hypothesis which must be disproved if B&T's argument is to be established. For unreconstructed Bayesians like me, this is highly significant. It means that the baseline probability against which the ETH should be assessed is potentially quite different from the one that has generally be assumed. Now twenty years or so ago, I doubt if many people bothered all that much about the Fermi Paradox. These days though, I doubt if you'd find many people outside the SETI community - who have a vested interest in brushing it under the carpet - who didn't find it at least a little problematic. But if Fermi's Paradox has bite, then the implications for the baseline probability against which the ETH should be evaluated have bite too. Am I the only one who finds this interesting? Cathy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Debunking The Debunkers - Klass From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:30:50 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:03:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Debunking The Debunkers - Klass [Mr. Klass, a Net-Neophyte, seems to have difficulty in understanding/applying the List Posting Protocols to his submissions. Mr Klass, below is the formatting required for UFO UpDates - should future submissions not conform they won't be posted to the List --ebk] >From: David D. Furlotte <Furry@nobelmed.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:19:05 -0400 >Subject: Debunking The Debunkers >I've decided that enough is enough and it is time to challenge >the debunkers within the ufological community. However, unlike >the debunkers who like to proclaim without benefit of >investigation what the answer is to any UFO sighting, I prefer >to do a little research so it can clearly be seen how wrong the >debunkers can be. >In a recent radio interview on 'Strange Days... Indeed', Dr. Joe >Nickell stated that "CSICOP's middle name was investigation", >but I guess Phil Klass must have missed that particular class at >CSICOP school because his reason for the Washington sightings >where F-16's were scrambled to intercept is so totally >preposterous that it wasn't even accepted by Project Blue Book >when it was given as the same reason 50 years ago. >Phil Klass proclaimed that the blue light tracked on NORAD radar >and chased over the skies in Washington by F-16s was nothing >more than an anamoly caused by a temperature inversion. This >was the "official" reason given for the sightings of strange >things in the skies July 19, 1952 and was shot down then. >From: http://ufocasebook.com/washington.html >The radar operators offered their own reason for rejecting the >Air Force explanation. Radar controller Barnes would state, >"Inversion blips are always recognized by experts, we are >familiar with what weather conditions, flying birds, and [other] >such things can cause on radar. Temperature inversions on radar >are typically weak returns and move at a slow ground speed. >These blips were distinctly clear, reported as a very good >return, solid and often traveled at unbelievable speeds." >If Phil Klass did just a teeny tiny bit of "investigation" he >also would have found out that nobody, including the USAF's >Project Blue Book, bought it back in 1952 and I suspect that our >radar systems and operators are somewhat more advanced with the >benefit of 50 years under their belt. In other words Phil, you >couldn't fool 'em then, why do you think you can fool 'em now? Dear David: (1) Have you studied the Technical Report #180, dated May 1953 [repeat 1953] of Civil Aeronautics Administration [now the FAA] on their detailed investigation into the July 1952 UFO blips?? (2) Have you communicated with any of the F-94C pilots who flew to D.C. to investigate the radar reports? (3) In view of the rigorous CAA investigation, did Project Blue Book launch its own investigation? Look forward to your response. Cordially, Phil Klass
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Trindade Island Case - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 02:33:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:13:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case - Speiser >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Trindade Island Case >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 12:40:24 -0500 <snip> >The case can be proved a hoax by the production of testimony >from someone who was there, in a position to see the >Saturn-shaped UFO, and who denied that anything was seen. As >hoaxes go, this one should have been, and be, child's play to >debunk. That not a shred of contrary evidence has emerged after >four a half decades - and, as John commendably acknowledges, no >credible, non-UFO explanation for the sighting and photographs >has emerged either - speaks to the strength of the case. Not to >mention, of course, the several photoanalyses, official and >private, that establish that the object in the photographs was >large and anomalous. Maccabee's Law: The hoax hypothesis is non-disprovable. Speiser's Corollary: The hoax hypothesis is non-provable. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Roy Hale <roy.hale@ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:53:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:15:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 22:08:19 +0100 <Snip> >What do shrinks have to do with it? Hi Catherine, The bottom line being, sceptics think believers are nuts, Plain and simple. I learnt long ago not to waste my breath ranting at people who have a brick wall vision on such matters. UFOs are a big market for both believers and sceptics, a ticket to notoriety and face placing. Although sceptics are the shy ones..... Roy Roy Hale is Web Master of The Lost Haven http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk And Editor of: Down To Earth Magazine. Articles On the UFO Subject, Buy On Line Research CDs, FREE Downloads, Business Marketing, Web Links, Art & Culture and much more!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Update On Washington UFOs July 26 From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:38:05 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:41:54 -0400 Subject: Update On Washington UFOs July 26 Source: The Washington Times, http://washingtontimes.com/national/20020807-25283248.htm Stig *** The Washington Times www.washtimes.com UFO reported in area again, after 50 years Stephanie Casler THE WASHINGTON TIMES Published 8/7/2002 ** Many Maryland residents say they were disturbed about 1 a.m. on July 26 by loud aircraft rumblings =97 and some insisted they saw a UFO. The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) scrambled two D.C. Air National Guard F-16 jets out of Andrews Air Force Base to investigate an unknown aircraft picked up by radar. Phone lines at radio stations lit up as puzzled callers wondered what exactly was going on. Renny Rogers, a Waldorf, Md., resident, said he saw a jet pursue a blue light in and out of the clouds. NORAD explained the July 26 sighting: "The F-16s investigated, found nothing out of the ordinary, and returned to base. At no point in the mission did the fighters chase or intercept another aircraft," said Army Maj. Barry Venable, spokesman for NORAD. "Those are the facts from our perspective." The NORAD spokesman didn't hesitate to use the phrase "UF0," but said that it merely refers to an unexplained sighting. "Any unknown air activity is potentially threatening," said Maj. Venable. "Yes, there was a UFO =97 an unidentified flying object =97 momentarily spotted by radar. Does that mean it's an alien spaceship? No." The July 26 sighting occurred 50 years after a UFO sighting over Washington that made nationwide headlines. One hot night in July 1952, Washington National Airport radar picked up unidentified blips and there were reports of bright shapes hovering outside control-tower windows. Air Force radar screens also detected unidentified objects, and two F-94 fighters flashed over Washington in hot pursuit, but found nothing A week later, on July 26, there was another UFO scare. National's air-controller radar tracked a dozen unexplained objects, as did radar at Andrews Air Force Base. F-94s were dispatched at 11 p.m. from New Castle Air Force Base in Delaware to scour the sky. When they arrived over Washington, however, the blips had disappeared =97 but reappeared as soon as the jets returned to base. At 1:30 a.m., the Air Force jets were back above Washington. This time the pilots reported seeing strange lights, but were unable to catch up with the UFOs. Kevin D. Randle, whose book "Investigation Washington: UFOs Over the Capitol" deals with the 1952 sightings, says it is "an amazing coincidence" that this year's reported UFO sightings occurred on the 50th anniversary of the earlier event. He noted that the two incidents involved radar contacts, jet fighter pursuits and civilian witnesses on the ground. Mark Rodeghier, scientific director of the Center for UFO Studies, thinks that UFOs are still "an unexplained phenomena that deserves serious attention by both the scientific community and the government." Mr. Rogers, who said he saw a jet chasing a UFO over Waldorf, believes the government doesn't want to learn more. "Their policy is that if they don't know something, keep quiet," he said ** Copyright =A9 2002 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Washington UFO July 26 Updated & Corrected From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:46:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:43:39 -0400 Subject: Washington UFO July 26 Updated & Corrected Source: The Washington Times http://washingtontimes.com/national/20020807-25283248.htm Stig *** The Washington Times www.washtimes.com UFO reported in area again, after 50 years Stephanie Casler THE WASHINGTON TIMES Published 8/7/2002 ** Many Maryland residents say they were disturbed about 1 a.m. on July 26 by loud aircraft rumblings =97 and some insisted they saw a UFO. The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) scrambled two D.C. Air National Guard F-16 jets out of Andrews Air Force Base to investigate an unknown aircraft picked up by radar. Phone lines at radio stations lit up as puzzled callers wondered what exactly was going on. Renny Rogers, a Waldorf, Md., resident, said he saw a jet pursue a blue light in and out of the clouds. NORAD explained the July 26 sighting: "The F-16s investigated, found nothing out of the ordinary, and returned to base. At no point in the mission did the fighters chase or intercept another aircraft," said Army Maj. Barry Venable, spokesman for NORAD. "Those are the facts from our perspective." The NORAD spokesman didn't hesitate to use the phrase "UF0," but said that it merely refers to an unexplained sighting. "Any unknown air activity is potentially threatening," said Maj. Venable. "Yes, there was a UFO =97 an unidentified flying object =97 momentarily spotted by radar. Does that mean it's an alien spaceship? No." The July 26 sighting occurred 50 years after a UFO sighting over Washington that made nationwide headlines. One hot night in July 1952, Washington National Airport radar picked up unidentified blips and there were reports of bright shapes hovering outside control-tower windows. Air Force radar screens also detected unidentified objects, and two F-94 fighters flashed over Washington in hot pursuit, but found nothing A week later, on July 26, there was another UFO scare. National's air-controller radar tracked a dozen unexplained objects, as did radar at Andrews Air Force Base. F-94s were dispatched at 11 p.m. from New Castle Air Force Base in Delaware to scour the sky. When they arrived over Washington, however, the blips had disappeared =97 but reappeared as soon as the jets returned to base. At 1:30 a.m., the Air Force jets were back above Washington. This time the pilots reported seeing strange lights, but were unable to catch up with the UFOs. Kevin D. Randle, whose book "Investigation Washington: UFOs Over the Capitol" deals with the 1952 sightings, says it is "an amazing coincidence" that this year's reported UFO sightings occurred on the 50th anniversary of the earlier event. He noted that the two incidents involved radar contacts, jet fighter pursuits and civilian witnesses on the ground. Mark Rodeghier, scientific director of the Center for UFO Studies, thinks that UFOs are still "an unexplained phenomena that deserves serious attention by both the scientific community and the government." Mr. Rogers, who said he saw a jet chasing a UFO over Waldorf, believes the government doesn't want to learn more. "Their policy is that if they don't know something, keep quiet," he said ** Copyright =A9 2002 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 UFOs, Muhnochwas, Claw Faces In Uttar Pradesh India From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:58:16 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:44:54 -0400 Subject: UFOs, Muhnochwas, Claw Faces In Uttar Pradesh India Source: netGuruIndia http://www.netguruindia.com/NAT1.asp?newsnumber=3D3 Stig *** IIT Kanpoor team to unearth the 'muhnochwa' mystery By a Staff Reporter ** Aug 7: Unidentified Flying Objects or more prominently the UFOs are seen to be flying the rustic skies of Uttar Pradesh. It seems that Steven Spielberge's E.T is not just a figment of imagination. The UFOs of UP reveals the fact that truth can also be cinematized. Having failed to demystify the truth behind these objects that haunt the nocturnal skies of UP, the state government has urged the Indian Institute of Technology scientists to unravel the mystery. IIT Kanpoor has been asked to send a team of scientists in the remote areas of Mirzapur and other districts of eastern Uttar Pradesh to help state government discover the mystery behind these UFOs. These objects are called 'muhnochwas' or objects that claw the faces. Some of the victims those were attacked by the muhnochwas reported that these objects leave a mark of claw on the faces of the victims while flying over the night skies of UP. The state government had also deployed police force to find out the mystery behind them but the UP police failed to come to any specific conclusion. It has been reported that the Police personals were also attacked by these objects. Uttar Pradesh Home Secretary Dipti Vilas told reporters, "We have requested IIT Kanpur to send its experts to find out if some remote device is being used by mischief-mongers to create this trouble." "According to reports received so far," he said, "some strange, brightly lit object comes flying towards its victims and leaves claw marks as it flies off." People in the area are very terror stricken and they have demanded a solution to this problem. Eyewitnesses say that the object resembles somewhat like a football, while others say that it looks like a tortoise. However, the eyewitnesses converge to one single point that the object is like a ball of fire and is very brightly lit. Because the attacks have always been carried out in the dark, the home department has written to the Uttar Pradesh Power Corporation to ensure enhanced power supply in the affected villages. "Villages normally get just about eight hours of power supply in a day; but we have now asked the power corporation to provide 16 hours of supply to the affected villages," Dipti Vilas said. ** =A9netGuruIndia.com, All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Connors From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:02:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:44:35 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Connors >From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:35:50 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Klass >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:06:48 -0700 >>Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >Based on your report. I suspect (repeat suspect) that NORAD is >embarrassed that its radar controllers mistook a temperature- >inversion caused radar blip for a real target. >Phil Klass Mr. Klass, It is my honest opinion that you and your beloved CSICOP are redundant and have been since the moment your collective egos convinced you that you were the savior of humanity from all things that lie outside current knowledge and understanding. You have lived your life devoid of the knowledge that much exists beyond your own comprehension and failed to acknowledge that there is much beyond the knowledge of humanity that lie in the realms of possibility and probability. The perfect living example of the fallacy of dichotomy. I feel much pity for you, Mr. Klass. A monumental waste of your intellect and soul devoted only to yourself and a fanatical mission to destroy, at any cost, that which you fear the most... reality of the need for knowledge to be sought and contemplated in an honest way. The way I see it, your CSICOPian cultist ability to add to human knowledge in the area of crypto-aeronautics, extinguished itself at the moment your first book on ufology wasted natural resources and was hailed a triumph among mediocre minds. Your time in the spotlight has long been extinguished, yet you go not gracefully into the night to spend the remainder of your seasons in self-reflection. Always too stubborn to honestly admit your crypto-aeronautic work was nothing but a sham and that your perceived position of power was self-delusional from day one. There are intelligent people in the world, Mr. Klass. Your myopic sense of CSICOPian reality is long past and your banners lay in tatters, strewn along the gutter of the CSICOP cultist dream. You're irrelevant to real science, Mr. Klass. You always were. Your legacy consists only of championing the mundane and mediocre, leaving a trail of dispicable methodologies and bogus science. Your own fanaticism and that of your beloved CSICOP was your undoing from the very beginning. You cheated people out of their self-respect, Mr. Klass. You did so by falsely claiming your scientific acumen, which was as bogus as your sense of reality. You were a champion only to yourself and not humanities search for truth. You showed your disgust of humanity and the honest quest for knowledge by dishonest research and conclusions. You and CSICOP are the real charltans and hoaxers of science and are indeed, very paranormal... living out of the range of rationality, logic and common sense. There is no place for you or CSICOP among the honest seekers of knowledge or truth, both in legitimate science and legitimate research into the paranormal. The world no longer needs your kind. It hasn't for a long, long time. Self-deception is your Epitaph. CSICOP, your Momument of Shame. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 BC Tonight: Dark Object: The Shag Harbour UFO From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:41:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:48:29 -0400 Subject: BC Tonight: Dark Object: The Shag Harbour UFO Source: The Halifax Herald (Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada), Wednesday August 7 2002 http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2002/08/07/fEntertainment.html Stig *** Dark Object: The Shag Harbour UFO Incident (CBC, 8-9 p.m.): A rebroadcast of a documentary that revisits the mysterious sinking of what is thought to have been a UFO off the coast of Nova Scotia in 1967. Copyright =A9 2002 The Halifax Herald Limited
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Crop Circles No News In Davenport Illinois From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:23:06 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:47:00 -0400 Subject: Crop Circles No News In Davenport Illinois Source: Quad-City Times Davenport Illinois http://www.qctimes.com/wundram/story49.html Stig *** Last updated on: Wed Aug 7 01:08:58 CDT 2002 Crop circles? Shucks, we've seen 'em before By Bill Wundram/ QUAD-CITY TIMES ** Eleven Augusts ago, the first crop circle showed up in these parts. Eerie, that this August, the new movie about crop circles shows up on our Quad-City big screen. It was August 1991, when a crop circle baffled even skeptics at the Brus place, farmed by Delmar "Snowball" Meyer on Coon Hunter's Road near Blue Grass. Eleven years ago I left Snowball's crop circle spooked and baffled at what I saw. I still am. The new Mel Gibson film is a thriller about 500-foot circles (and other designs) in the crops of his Pennsylvania farm. Snowball said yesterday: "I've seen clips of the movie, and those circles look just like the ones in my field." The movie is a big draw for people who believe that something is "out there." Supernatural or not, the Iowa State Patrol told the Associated Press that it doesn't expect any copycat crop circles to pop up coinciding with the release of the movie. (Some past crude circles have been the work of tricksters.) Tromping around our local crop circle 11 Augusts ago was an eerie feeling, made even spookier because the farm dog on the place wouldn't even enter it when called. Snowball Meyer no longer lives on the crop circle place. His home is in Blue Grass, but he still farms some of the 450-acre Brus farm, a Century Farm, meaning that it has been in a family at least 100 years. "No crop circles have been reported in the field since we moved," he says. "It was something hard to believe," says Mark Mangels, a neighbor, recalling the incident. "Nothing like it has ever happened before, or since, in this neighborhood. Some believed it was a stunt or trick by someone. I don't know." But Dr. James Hodges, Davenport, ex-college professor and a wise man on natural history, went out to inspect 11 Augusts ago and never believed that it was horseplay. "I was stunned by what I saw. It was unexplainable," he says. Hodges chartered a helicopter to look straight-down. "It was not a hoax. I just don't know what happened out there in the cornfield. Really, we know so little about the natural world." On that uncanny August day, Snowball was out baling when we arrived, said he had gone into the fields to get away from people. Cars were parked along Coon Hunter's Road and people were gawking over the fence to get a better look at the corn circle. We walked through his feed yard and into the cornfield toward the circle that was about a half-block from the big red barns on the place. The corn was rustling and crackling in the simmer of an August day. A cornfield is a place where one loses direction and can easily get lost. Ahead was the circle of exactly 48 feet where the corn had been flattened, and mostly pulled out by its roots, in a perfect swirling counter-clockwise. It was as if every stalk had been carefully put in place by a circling sorcerer from the skies. "I was scared to death the first time I saw it," Snowball remembers. "There wasn't a trace of a footstep in the circle or in the standing rows around it." Some uninvited visitors would not climb into the circle for fear of radiation or some such thing, but every farmer around came to look. "They all thought it was a hoax until they saw it," Snowball recalls. A curious pilot was there at the time of our visit. He said, "No helicopter could have done this. The other corn would have been disturbed." The surrounding corn was perfectly upright, the ears and stalks intact. Then, there was the person who told Snowball that the same night the corn was flattened, they saw an object looking like a UFO hovering over a bean field across Coon Hunter's Road. * Bill Wundram can be contacted at (563) 383-2249 or bwundram@qctimes.com. ** =A9 2002, Quad-City Times, Davenport, IA A Lee Enterprises subsidiary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 USA TODAY: 'Signs' Makes People Look Into From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:54:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:50:03 -0400 Subject: USA TODAY: 'Signs' Makes People Look Into Source: USA TODAY, http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2002-08-06-crop-signs_x.htm Stig *** 08/06/2002 - Updated 10:21 PM ET 'Signs' directs more people to look into crop-circle mystery By Tim Friend, USA TODAY ** Sounds like it could be a scene from the movie Signs, which is gripping the USA this week with crop-circle fever. Sightings are up. The most recent, in England near Stonehenge, appeared over the weekend (Hollywood denies responsibility). If you haven't kept up on the phenomenon, which began in 1980, the movie's opening dialogue nails the right questions: Are crop circles real? Who makes them? How? Why? Where do they appear? Signs has it own sinister answers. But in real life, people blame everything from UFOs to psychic forces to natural phenomena such as fluctuating water tables. Colin Andrews, scientific consultant for Signs, has been searching for clues and explanations since 1983. What Andrews has learned, and suspects, might surprise you. Since 1980, more than 10,500 crop circles have been reported. Anderson says about 80% are hoaxes. These tend to have the most elaborate designs and display telltale characteristics only a trained eye can spot. Most are done on young plants with wood planks, stepping them off about a yard at a time until a circle is formed. They're designed on computers then laid out using patterns and colored tape. The rub lies in the 20% of cases that cannot be explained, he says. They are the ones with simple circular, Celtic-like designs. The vast majority of these appear within a 40-mile radius of Stonehenge in southern England. Many surround ancient burial mounds and may have nothing at all to do with aliens. Cut to 1980: News of crop circles at Lake City and possible UFO landings quickly spreads. Turns out, the night before the circles appeared, another deputy claimed he was run off the road by a flying saucer. Law enforcement and media flock to the site. By most accounts, this is the first report of crop circles in the USA. When Kurt's uncle, David Olson of nearby Waterville, sees the news on TV, he is terrified. "I went to my folks that day about six o'clock in the evening," David, now 59, says. "My dad says, 'Hurry, Kurt's on TV.' I look and, my God, I see they're out in the cornfield. I'm thinking to myself, 'I'm going to go to jail for this.' " Yep. Uncle Dave did it. He kept his secret until 1988. It was a practical joke that came to mind after hearing his nephew and pals talking at a family reunion about what one might find during a close encounter with a UFO. David figured he'd give them what they wanted. "I had some burlap sacks and wrapped them around my feet so as not to leave tracks. I walked a quarter mile out into the cornfield and drove a stake into ground. I tied a piece of twine to it and started walking in a circle and stomping down the corn," Olson says. He toiled from 10:30 p.m. to 4 a.m. "The first one was so easy I decided to make a second. I brought a propane torch to singe the leaves on the corn and a post-hole digger to make holes for the landing gear. The kicker is, I scraped the radium off the dial of a Timex watch, ground it up with some dirt and put that in the middle of the circles." Olson says Kurt and some other folks in the area no longer speak to him. He says people want to believe in crop circles and UFOs, and they don't like being tricked. Neither does Andrews. "Hoaxes contaminate the study of any circles that might be genuine. It's like having a lot of glass fragments around a handful of diamonds," says Andrews, who worked as an engineer before taking on crop circles. "Each time there is a hoax, it discredits serious research." Andrews, who wrote the first book on crop circles, Circular Evidence (Bloomsbury Publishing, 1989), hired forensic experts to investigate crop circles as they would a crime scene. That evidence, he says, confirms that the fancy ones are made by humans from Earth. "There is group in London called the circle makers. They call what they're doing experiential art," he says. "They make it and enjoy observing the experience the public has with a mysterious occurrence. Others whose names we know are in it for purely malicious reasons." Over the past few years, Andrews has conducted research on crop circles with money from Lawrence Rockefeller. Anderson hired a laboratory in Michigan to analyze plant material from the circles. He explains that wheat, the favored grain of circle makers, has three to four nodes on a stalk. When a plant is blasted to ground naturally, say by high winds, the nodes enlarge to help the plant right itself. In 80% of crop circles, the node expansion is uniform from the center to the outer ring. That's a sign the circle was man made, he says. But in 20%, the node enlargement is greatest at the center and tapers off toward the edges, a pattern consistent with a blast of microwave radiation, he says. Plants in the unexplained group also show no structural damage, and the root systems appear healthier than in nearby control plants. One other difference is plants in hoax circles are scattered more randomly within their patterns, while plants in the unexplained group are flattened with perfect symmetry. Finally, crop circles in the unexplained group possess a magnetic signature different from surrounding plants and from the Earth's magnetic signature. Hoax circles do not show such differences, Andrews says. The studies are often discussed and repeated in crop-circle circles. Regulars, known as Croppies, discuss theories and studies in the documentary Crop Circles: The Search for Truth, by William Gazecki. The film, premiering Aug. 21 in Los Angeles, takes viewers to the scenes of newly discovered crop circles. Gazecki says he's convinced from his exposure to crop circles during the documentary that they are real. "It's engaging and authentic wonder," he says. "There is clearly some intelligence behind these. But we don't know what crop circles are about. What is really called for here is more study." As for Andrews, he's become intrigued by an odd explanation offered by a U.S. mathematician. It came about with a series of creepy coincidences. The bottom line is genuine crop circles could be a communication from people beyond the grave. This theory suggests the circles are appearing first to grab our attention. With some complicated mathematics involving squares of the area of crop circles and ratios between different-size circles, a code emerges kind of like the musical code from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Now that the circles have our attention, a second phase may be coming in which something important will be conveyed about the future of mankind, he says. "This isn't my theory," Andrews says. "But I am now open to the possibility that there's something in here way beyond proving with known techniques. And frankly, some of it has been a little scary." ** =A9 Copyright 2002 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'UFO' In Ukranian Jet Crash - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:55:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:52:20 -0400 Subject: Re: 'UFO' In Ukranian Jet Crash - Goldstein >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 21:49:06 +0200 >Subject: 'UFO' In Ukranian Jet Crash >Source: The Daily Telegraph via news.com.au Australia >http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4845726% >255E401,00.html >Stig >*** >'UFO' in jet crash >August 06, 2002 >** >KIEV: A previously unidentified flying object may have caused >the deadly crash of a Ukrainian fighter into an air show crowd a >week ago, the Russian NTV television company reported yesterday. >Slow-motion videotape of the July 27 accident shows a dark >object rising in an arc from a wood near the Lviv airfield close >the flight path of the Su-27, which went on to crash into the >crowd. >It was not clear what exactly the object was, or whether it >struck the aircraft. The crash killed 84 and left 199 >hospitalised. >Evhen Marchuk of the Ukrainian National Security Council said >initial investigations "almost certainly" ruled out technical >problems with the aircraft or a possible bird strike. >The Daily Telegraph Hello Stig, I haven't seen the film in slow motion but in my observations it looked as though the airplane did not have any external damage that would lead to the crash. It looked as though the pilot performed his maneuver at too low an altitude and in a manner that the plane could not recover from its sink rate before the ground got in the way. Did you rule out that the dark spot had anything to do with the moving shadow of the plane? I've landed on my shadow in the past. On today's news (BBC) they stated that the cause was pilot error from improper planning of the aerobatic pattern. They stated that the pilot performed four unplanned meaneuvers in his show. Perhaps that cost him the kiss of the ground. They also said there was improper planning by the military authorities staging the show. As soon as it hit people I knew that it was improperly planned by having people near the flight path of the show. I am very familiar with the separation required in the west. That aspect was really stupid on the part of the airshow operators. Stig, on a separate note, do you know if or what has been observed near that supposedly abandoned air base in Scotland (I forgot the name) where there have been reported sightings of what may be black aircraft? It has been reported that those sightings persisted after the base was supposedly closed. Are there plane spotters there on a regular basis? I'll meet you at "Saucerland" in Scotland if they ever get the funds for it together. Perhaps they should form a partnership with Disney to get funding and use the plans Disney had drawn up for their exhibit that never happened. Or perhaps they should study public relations from the Roswell planners. They could also make "Scotty" from Star Trek the official host. Do any Scottish abductees report aliens as leprechauns or greys in kilts? Why don't I understand the sport of curling? <g> Keep 'em flying, Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 CCCRN News: Multi-Circle Quintuplet Formation From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:02:48 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:54:21 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Multi-Circle Quintuplet Formation CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 7, 2002 _____________________________ CROP WATCH 2002 UPDATE: MULTI-CIRCLE QUINTUPLET FORMATION - HOWICK, QUEBEC Based on examination of aerial video footage (CTV News), there are at least 15 circles in the formation. While this field does have tramlines (not common in Canada), several of the smaller circles are placed between them, with no entry tracks visible. Tight lay of crop (barley), both clockwise and counterclockwise in different circles, flat to the ground. Initial ground study conducted by CCCRN field research assistant Margaret Haberl from Montreal. The formation has been heavily trampled by public and media coming to visit since its discovery August 3. Further details, photos pending. A larger aerial photo and updated links to news reports from the Montreal Gazette, CTV News and Ananova have also been posted. Please continue to temporarily use the copy of the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page here (updated): http://www.geocities.com/erasproject/circlescanada02.html Also, four other reports have been received in the last few days of formations not previously reported or known about, from Barhead, Alberta (1998), Sylvan Lake, Alberta (1976), Alberta (1960s, exact location / year not yet known) and Landis, Saskatchewan (1941!). Further details to be posted to the web site archives. Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field investigations and studies of formations, aerial surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public and the media, in particular during the prime August / September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Secrecy News -- 08/07/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:39:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:56:02 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/07/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 73 August 7, 2002 ** SUPPRESSED VOLUME ON GREECE TO BE PUBLISHED ** INTELLIGENCE STUDIES IN COSTA RICA, CANADA ** SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY IN A VULNERABLE WORLD SUPPRESSED VOLUME ON GREECE TO BE PUBLISHED An official State Department history of U.S. relations with Greece that was printed more than two years ago and then suppressed at the insistence of the Central Intelligence Agency will finally be published next week, Secrecy News has learned. The publication of "Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS), 1964-1968, vol. XVI: Cyprus; Greece; Turkey" was repeatedly deferred under pressure from the CIA, which reportedly contended that the volume's four decade-old revelations about CIA covert actions could trigger a violent response in Greece. State Department officials and scholars on the State Department Historical Advisory Committee viewed that claim as improbable and considered it a self-serving effort to evade historical accountability. Officials were reluctant to discuss how or why the dispute over publication was resolved, but the decision to permit publication may reflect the recent arrests of numerous members of the November 17 urban guerrilla group in Greece. "Obviously, recent events have made release a little more comfortable for some," said one informed source. "But the whole screw-up really caused the HO [State Department Office of the Historian] huge problems with the CIA. I think those problems are resolved, but confidence-building remains to be done," the source said. The suppressed FRUS volume is currently scheduled to be released on August 15. "Watch for it on the web late that afternoon," another source said. The web site for FRUS volumes from the Johnson Administration is here: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/ The CIA's efforts to prevent publication of the forthcoming FRUS volume were reported last year in "History of U.S.-Greek Ties Blocked; CIA Opposes Disclosure of Proposed Covert Actions in '60s," by George Lardner Jr. in the August 17, 2001, Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15770- 2001Aug15.html INTELLIGENCE STUDIES IN COSTA RICA, CANADA "Se conoce poco o nada sobre los servicios de inteligencia de Costa Rica," according to Paul Chaves C. of the Universidad de Costa Rica. Little or nothing is known about the intelligence services of Costa Rica. But actually, what is known is much closer to "poco" than to "nada," as Chaves himself demonstrated in a monograph last year. See his May 2001 paper "Los Espias no Bastan," a study of Costa Rican intelligence, newly available here: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/costa_rica/chaves.html Costa Rica is hardly a hotbed of intelligence activity, but Chaves' work reflects the growing "normalization" of intelligence studies in democratic societies around the world, as well as the mounting expectation that scholars and citizens should have a say in the policies and procedures governing intelligence. The Canadian Association for Security and Intelligence Studies (CASIS) will hold an international conference on "The New Intelligence Order: Knowledge for Security and International Relations" on September 26-28 in Ottawa, Ontario. See the CASIS web site for more information: http://www.sfu.ca/igs/CASIS/ SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY IN A VULNERABLE WORLD The impacts of September 11 on universities and particularly on scientific research were addressed by several prominent scientists and academics at an April 2002 colloquium sponsored by the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Their presentations, which generally offer more questions than answers, have recently been published under the title "Science and Technology in a Vulnerable World" and are available here: http://www.aaas.org/spp/yearbook/2003/yrbk03.htm _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news- request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:59:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - >From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:48:17 -0400 >Subject: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight >'Crop Circles: In Search of a Sign' >For twenty years, crop circles appeared with increasing >frequency in crops around the world. Hoaxers stepped forward, >but how could they create so many complex circles? Follow >scientists, astronomers, and archaeologists as they examine crop >circles. >Tuesday, August 6, 2002 >TLC at 6:00 PM and 9:00 PM [Pacific] >Friday, August 10, 2002 >TLC at 3:00 PM (repeat, check time) >Check local listings for your time zone I watched it. Hey, where were those debunkers? An excellent presentation. Even hoaxers admitted to seeing balls of light at night and to genuine crop formations. Now, would they please do one like that on Roswell. Bill H
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Program Gives Access To Government Blocked From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 19:01:15 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:03:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Program Gives Access To Government Blocked >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 06:51:06 +0200 >Subject: Program Gives Access To Government Blocked Web Pages >Source: International Herald Tribune >http://www.iht.com/articles/66726.htm >Stig >*** >Give Big Brother the slip >Lee Dembart, International Herald Tribune >Monday, August 5, 2002 >A voice for the consumer >** >PARIS A just-released program, available free on the Internet, >holds the prospect of overcoming government restrictions on the >Web, thereby allowing anybody in the world to read any Web page, >even if it has been blocked. What's more, the program will make >it impossible for the authorities to trace who is reading what >online. >The program is called Peekabooty. It was released in mid-July, >and a test version of it is available from www.peekabooty.org. >Peekabooty's goal is to create a constantly changing, worldwide >peer-to-peer network that will enable people to do an end run >around attempts to block Web sites. The implications of such a >system are revolutionary. >Here is how it works: Countries that limit their citizens' >access to Web sites do so by blocking the Internet addresses of >those sites. But someone using Peekabooty will be able to >connect to the network - the Internet address of the connection >will always change - and ask another computer in an unblocked >country to download the desired Web site and pass it along. >In a sense, this is like the decentralized network that exists >with Kazaa or Morpheus, the popular music-swapping programs that >have followed in the footsteps of Napster. But instead of >trading files, Peekabooty users will simply transfer Web pages >on the fly. Nothing is stored. What's more, the network will let >people surf the Web completely anonymously. Everything will be >encrypted to thwart snoopers, but the encryption has not yet >been installed, so security cannot be guaranteed. ><snip> Copyright =A9 2002 The International Herald Tribune Hello Stig and all Listerions, I suppose this is off topic from the List but maybe beings in UFOs have computers. Perhaps they are wise enough to use Apple products. But then again some aliens have been described as looking like Ross Perot. Perhaps we should take a close look at whether Bill Gates matches any abductee's description.. I suppose people in censored countries will peek at lots of big busted blonde booty using this network. If I always had to look at women covered in veils or garment bags this network would be a necessity in my life as much as Viagra. For medical reasons I can no longer be a licensed pilot but my hand often naturally goes right to my control stick. I don't need Viagra yet. I guess once a pilot always a pilot. Of course this was a major activity of my preflight training before I was old enough to take lessons. In all seriousness I want to address the last paragraph above which describes musical pirating software. I have been a professional in music for many years and illegal bootlegging of music only takes money away from the musicians who made it and deserve to be compensated. When people used to make an occasional tape copy from an album someone else bought it was not a major problem. Now that digital bootlegging has reached major proportions it is a serious crime that robs many artists of what they deserve. Yes, you are guilty if you are a bootlegger and too cheap to help the artists who have a very tough time trying to make a living from their talent. I am all for copy protection unless the artist wants to give away some music for free. In harmony, Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Fermi Paradox [was: Eyewitness Testimony And The From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:05:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:05:18 -0400 Subject: Fermi Paradox [was: Eyewitness Testimony And The >From: Catherine Reason <CathyM@ukf.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 01:17:47 +0100 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:33:01 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >One of the reasons I joined this List - apart from hoping Jenny >Randles might be on it, since she's definitely my favorite >writer on UFOs - was that I was hoping I might be able to apply >my perspective as a theoretician and vision researcher to just >these sorts of questions. >Ok, here's an off-the-wall example. In their book "The Anthropic >Cosmological Principle" (OUP 1986) Barrow and Tipler write the >following on the subject of the Fermi Paradox: >"...The general conclusion that the Galaxy would be completely >explored/colonized within one billion years after the first >appearance of a technological species which embarks on such a >programme, is essentially model-independent." >In other words, if space-traveling aliens existed , *or ever had >existed* in our Galaxy, they should have been here by now. >B&T go on to say: >"...It follows from the absence of ETI in our Solar System that >such space-travelling ETI apparently do not exist, and have >never existed in our Galaxy." >Now, as a theoretician, I find this absolutely fascinating. The >reason is, that the ETH for UFOs (and yes, I do know that the >ETH isn't the only possible explanation for UFOs) has usually >been phrased in terms of a null hypothesis that ETI does not >exist in our solar system. >The null hypothesis of the B&T argument, however, is entirely >the reverse - their null hypothesis is necessarily that ETI >*does* exist in our solar system - this is the hypothesis which >must be disproved if B&T's argument is to be established. >For unreconstructed Bayesians like me, this is highly >significant. It means that the baseline probability against >which the ETH should be assessed is potentially quite different >from the one that has generally be assumed. >Now twenty years or so ago, I doubt if many people bothered all >that much about the Fermi Paradox. These days though, I doubt if >you'd find many people outside the SETI community - who have a >vested interest in brushing it under the carpet - who didn't >find it at least a little problematic. But if Fermi's Paradox >has bite, then the implications for the baseline probability >against which the ETH should be evaluated have bite too. >Am I the only one who finds this interesting? No indeed, Cathy. However B&T seemed to make the assumption that ETI are not very intelligent, and would not have a strategy of dealing with young emerging civilizations like ours. Newman & Sagan referred to such a possible set of strategic guidelines as a 'Codex Galactica'. And as I recall the Tipler contribution, it implicitly assumes that the nastiest ETI are in the majority, while more ethical ETI would not be interested in maintaining some law and order within the cosmos. Quite a few authors have gotten their papers in the scientific literature as to alternatives to B&T that do involve alien intelligence, along with ethical levels that place exploration above colonization or destruction. These include the zoo hypothesis, the nursery hypothesis, the laboratory hypothesis, and the quarantine & embargo hypotheses, published mainly in _Icarus_ and in the _Quart. J. Roy. Astron. Soc._ since the 1970s. Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 Filer's Files #32 - 2002 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 14:24:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:21:24 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #32 - 2002 FILER'S FILES #32-2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern August 7, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- http//:www.filersfiles-ufo.com. Dear Readers, I have been receiving viruses and other attacks including hijacking of my website domain name. I will not send out these files or emails with attachments so if you receive any attachments from me do not open. New website name will be http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com. UFO SIGHTINGS INCREASE: New York flying triangle, New Jersey investigation, Pennsylvania green beam, Washington D.C. report, Ohio flying pen, Georgia flap, Alabama disc, Tennessee huge UFO, Illinois circle fizzles, Arizona glowing cylinder, Montana disc, California flying triangle, Canadian UFOs, and Argentina flying triangle. Ukraine air show crash may have been caused by white cylinder shaped UFO seen TV. Top Defense and Air Force personnel fired so UFO video becomes their best defense. NEW YORK FLYING TRIANGLE A DISC CHEEKTOWAGA -- A triangular shaped object with flames and green lights floated over while friends were sitting talking around the bonfire on July 28, 2002, at 1:00 AM. The witness says "I was looking up at the sky looking at the stars when to my left a triangular shape appeared." I first thought it was a plane and then realized that I never seen a plane like that before. I was able to point out three corners of the craft which did indeed look like a flying triangle. The front had two green lights at two points and what looked like a red flame in between them. It was moving a bit slow for a few seconds and then picked up speed. We stood up and ran to the front of the house because the house next door was in the way of our view. When we made our way there it had disappeared. It wasn't a cloudy night so us not being able to see it anymore was a bit strange. NEW YORK CITY DISC -- Laying on my bed looking out the window on July 28, 2002, I saw a black object flying by at a constant velocity. I jumped up to get a closer look without taking my eyes away at 8:10 PM. The object changed shape from circular to disc-like alternating every two or three seconds. It moved in one direction, did not change course, and seemed to be moving slower than the planes I see taking off from a nearby airport. The object came near one airplane, but neither seemed to change course. I'm not inferring that this was an alien UFO, but it was certainly not like anything I've witnessed before. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC NEW JERSEY PHANTOM TRAIN DOESN'T SHOW HAMMONTON - A group of UFO researchers drove up and down Route 536, most of the night trying to spot the so-called Phantom train that reportedly moves down the road at night scaring drivers. Evelyn Galsen, Pat Mc Gee and Ward Campbell and myself spent last Wednesday trying to find the mysterious visitor but failed. We did manage to witness a high speed passenger train that runs between Philadelphia and Atlantic City. The train has a million plus candle power head light. However, the train track runs on an angle to the road and unless someone is bending the light this seems unlikely to be the phantom train culprit. PENNSYLVANIA GREEN BEAM, HUM AND BARKING DOGS! PHILADELPHIA -- On July 26, 2002, at 10:10 PM, four Police Officers were outside our headquarters when we noticed a glowing "deep green" beam of light, 65 degrees near the zenith. This green beam was stationary, just above the clouds, facing NNE. The beam was horizontal to the ground and a high pitched, pulsating hum could be heard over the common city noise. This hum caused the several K-9 dogs to bark and howl uncontrollably from their pens. One officer stated, "Holding my hand up to the sky, the beam/glow of deep green light would have been relative to the size of my thumb. After viewing in amazement, for about two minutes, the "deep green" light vanished, the hum stopped and the dogs became silent." With two airports in the area, I'm sure something had to be picked up on radar screens. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WASHINGTON DC PILOT REPORTS UFO Luce Blessings writes, I heard a story from a morning show music host about his brother in law (an airline pilot of a large airline) reporting the sighting of a UFO being chased by some military planes over Washington, DC on July 30, 2002. Nothing was reported on the news. Thanks to Luce, Blessing2305@msn.com OHIO FLYING FOUNTAIN PEN, POSSIBLE ABDUCTION YOUNGSTOWN -- NUFORC reports a dramatic, sighting event in the vicinity of Highway 84 at 02:45 hours on July 31, 2002. A young man witnessed a momentary flash of light, followed by a sighting of an object that looked generally like a "fountain pen." The object streaked across the sky, stopped, and the truck ahead of the witness suddenly was no longer there! It sounds like a possible "abduction," a.k.a. interaction case. CINCINNATI -- Kenny Young writes, " On July 30, 2002, around 1:30 a.m., an unusual bright light was seen over the city by many people. The event was reported by numerous news media outlets including 700 WLW A.M. Radio and the FM station 102.9 WEBN. I placed a call to the newsroom of 700 WLW and the person taking the call said that the National Weather Service advised that the object was a meteor. Joedy Cooke overheard discussion of the sighting on WEBN radio, that focused on the object hovering stationary. Also in response to a tip that the North College Hill Police Department had acquired an in-car video cam recording of the object, researcher Donnie Blessing, MUFON's State Section Director for Southern Ohio, has traveled to speak with police officials and was able to confirm the existence of this video recording. She is working now to obtain this video. Thanks to KENNY YOUNG ufo@FUSE.NET GEORGIA SIGHTINGS FLAP ATLANTA -- On June 11, 2002, at about 10:40 PM, on a hospital helipad, members of the aircrew observed a blue-green sphere, estimated at 4 to 10 feet actual size, flew over the helipad without sound, but it seemed to leave a slight trail-like emission. Witnesses also observed white strobes and red and blue flashing beacon from top floor of an adjacent building. Then another object with red and white lights was observed flying along the edge of the helipad descending toward the ground, but there was no crash. Investigation continues. HINESVILLE -- During mid-July a teenage student was up at 3:00 AM doing work on her laptop when she heard her dog barking outside and looked out to see if someone was coming up. She observed a string of hovering glowing lights, that looked like Christmas lights, but she was unable to see structure behind them. She looked up and down the neighborhood and back to the lights, noticing that one toward the middle was brighter. At this point, the lights took off in unison toward their neighbor's home. She ran into her mother's room to wake her and her mother also saw the lights move into the woods. The sighting was near the coast and Fort Stewart. Charles Bowen, our SSD for Savannah, will investigate. DULUTH -- At 10:55 PM, on July 17, 2002, I was traveling south on Highway 141 when off to my left 125 feet above the tree line I witnessed two bright lights less then a quarter mile away. It was a long triangle shape with bright round lights at each corner as well as on each side of the craft with a rotating blue light in the center of the craft. Ground lights reflected off the solid black craft, with a thin strip of dim lights going around the side of the ship. As it made a complete 180 degree turn it slowly descended to just feet above the trees just behind a small car dealership. I pulled into the dealer's lot and my clock still read 10:55 PM and walked towards the object 175 feet away. I could clearly see the triangle craft 4 to-5 car lengths (100 feet long) and about 15 to 20 feet tall. As I got closer it started to move away. At this point I remembered I had a camera in my car so I ran back to get it. I noticed other motorists slowing down to look and I grabbed my camera, but the craft just disappeared. TUCKER -- On July 21, at about 2:00 AM, a housewife in the area reports that a white oval shaped light flew over her home at treetop level. SSD Olivia Newton will investigate. JEFFERSON -- MUFONGA's Linda and William Campbell report on July 27, 2002, noticed a star-like light moving through the sky, and while unable to identify it, they considered a very high flying aircraft. On subsequent nights of observation, they have observed lights flying north then south, and once east. Observation with binoculars defined nothing more than their star-like appearance with no observed structure or navigation lights. This continues until well past midnight every 10-15 minutes, and does not operate like satellites do. BLACKSHEAR -- On July 29, 2002, at about 9:30 PM, a couple was out for their evening walk and noticed a white glowing star 25- 30 degrees high rapidly traveled west on a wobbly, slightly erratic course. Five minutes later they noticed another star- like object moving in the same manner. They could see beams of light going toward the object, with similar beams emanating from the object that turned red and vanished. John Bodin MUFONGA's will be conducting the evaluation. Thanks to Tom Sheets, MUFONGA and WUFOD. TENNESSEE ENORMOUS SIZE UFO OBSERVED LAVERGNE -- The witness says, "At 7:45 PM, on July 22, 2002, my wife and I were in the backyard enjoying our swing. The moon was about forty-five degrees above the horizon when we saw a bright light appear above the treeline in the southeast. The light slowly ascended and disappeared behind the moon and never reappeared on the other side! The object was about 1/8th inches in diameter, and 1/10th the diameter of the moon. ALABAMA DISK VIDEO AND PHOTOGRAPHS BESSEMER -- I was traveling back home from dinner at a friend's house on July 19, 2002, when I noticed what I thought at first to be part of the moon obscured by clouds in the western sky at 9:00 PM. Then I noticed that it was a cloudless night and the real moon was over my left shoulder. So then I got excited and got my video camera and went to the parking lot of this church and got the object on video. The sighting lasted about a minute or two before the object disappeared like someone turning off the light. Peter Davenport NUFORC. ILLINOIS CROP CIRCLE APPEARS MAN-MADE NAPERVILLE - The crop circle that showed up last week may have been placed there to advertise the new Mel Gibson movie "Signs." Witnesses saw some men come to the field with weedwhackers and cut down an area to make it appear like a crop circle. The circle was placed near an apartment building so it could be easily spotted from higher floors. MONTANA DISK ABOVE MOUNTAIN DEER LODGE -- The witness started his car at 10:15 PM, and noticed a beam of light above the mountain on July 23, 2002. He reported, "I thought it was a reflection off the football lamps, but when I moved the car, I realized it was not, so I stopped. The object was positioned about 23 miles away above the mountain. It was a bright disk with various white lights that moved back and forth. Then the lights faded and disappeared twenty seconds after I first saw it. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC. ARIZONA CYLINDRICAL OBJECT WITH AN EXTERIOR GLOW PHOENIX/GLENDALE -- The witness reports on July 20, 2002, my wife saw it as it cleared our next door neighbor's house and yelled, "Come out and see this!" As I stepped outside at 8:30 PM, my wife was pointing up, and I saw the object. It was a charcoal gray cylinder with a pale blue/gray outline, that seemed to glow and was moving fast and silent thru the sky. There was no sound as it moved. On two opposite sides of the object, there were two curved points that went towards the inside of the object. It seemed to tumble as it moved thru the sky, but it flew in a smooth and swift manner and then disappeared moving northeast. CALIFORNIA FLYING TRIANGLE SPOTTED BY MANY WITNESSES SEQUOIA NATIONAL PARK --About 9:45 PM, a family was camping when one member pointed out a huge craft in the form of a V with red lights flying slowly over. They were able to see the object for about two minutes and it made a humming sound, but nothing like an airplane. Numerous campers saw the craft. All the these California reports occurred on July 23, 2002, within an hour. LOS ANGELES -- At 10:00 PM, a large chevron shape of red twinkling lights slowly moved south across the sky in the Mid- City area of Los Angeles. The witness reports, "I was outside of my Dad's in the Mid-City area when I noticed a large chevron shape of red twinkling lights." I pointed it out to a neighbor and we watched the chevron move slowly under a much smaller aircraft. In comparison the chevron was huge and flew much slower. We could not make out a mass, only the lights lighting in a pattern back and forth across the chevron shape. My Dad's house is in the flight pattern of LA Airport, and planes fly an east and west flight pattern but chevron was flying south. WEST HILL -- Another witness at 10:05 PM, stated, I saw an uneven "V" formation of white and red lights, trailing ones flashing red, with trail extending for a minute or two. It flew slowly at about 30 degrees elevation, moving southeast traveling at about the speed of a small prop plane. There was almost a full moon rising. It traveled south over the San Fernando Valley, and developed a long "tail" of red flashing lights, which grew ever longer. There were 4 or 5 high intensity flashing lights extending at about 45 degrees backwards from the parent whitish ball. The overall shape was a chevron of lights, with one or two dimmer red lights further back. Through binoculars, I could discern no solid connection between the lights, nor any additional "navigation" lights, even though the object was close to the full Moon, and any wing structure would easily have been visible. Fifteen minutes later, we saw two fast military planes probably F-16s traveling the same path. SANTA MONICA -- At 10:22 PM, fifteen witnesses saw something similar to the Phoenix lights flying south towards their position at about ten thousand feet in altitude They were stunned, and said there no words to describe it. It had white lights in a huge triangular shape and over flew her position and saw it disappear going south. RESEDA -- My husband and I were bringing in the trash cans at 10:30 PM, when I looked at the northwest sky and saw a cluster of red and blue lights with a bright white light in the center coming towards our home. I said, "What is that?" He looked and yelled for other family members to look see the V- shaped formation. He took out the video camera and started to record. The center light was bright and the other lights began to dimmer out as if they were separating from the formation. It flew south over our heads not moving very fast, and we could hear a motor type noise, but it was not a noise that an airplane makes. When the craft flew over the phone went dead and the video camera stopped. CATALINA ISLAND -- At 10:30 PM, I was at a summer camp at Toyon Bay near Avalon and was walking away from the beach in a crowd of forty people when we saw a triangle formation of lights, moving very slowly in formation. There was a very bright white light in front with red lights trailing it. The entire formation was several times larger than the full moon. The lights did not flash. A very low, quiet engine sound was audible. I thought it could be a formation of military jets, but the lights did not blink or flash and they stayed in perfect formation. It was flying from the northwest towards Avalon. EXETER -- At 10:30 PM, four of us from my church saw a huge UFO in the shape of a triangle with just red lights rimming the edge of it as it flew south. We moved the car and it reappeared by coming behind us after about 15 minutes. This thing was huge and had like a hum to it. it was a little east of Rocky Mountain. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC Editor's Note: Multiple witnesses tracked the first UFO moving south to Catalina. A second chevron may have been seen near Exeter in the Fresno area, where the sightings started. CANADA CIGAR TERRACE, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- Brian Vike reports that a 17 year old called to say, "Although I always believed there had to be other life out there, I was never truly convinced they had made contact, until July 27, 2002, when I saw a moving light fly towards Prince Rupert." As the object began moving further east at 12:25 AM, I began to realize it was cigar or pancake shaped with a flickering bright light moving around its side. This was not human technology. Two minutes later, it moved from a horizontal position to a diagonal position then descended going northwest. TELKWA, BC -- Two witnesses say they watched an object for 30 seconds, before it flew below the mountains. The object was viewed by another witness flying 300 meters off the deck. The sighting was reported to the RCMP and later a military transport was seen landing at the Smithers Airport, followed by military trucks moving around the back roads. There is nothing out there for the military such as bases. Thanks to Brian Vike (Yogi) HBCC UFO Research HOWICK, QUEBEC -- Montreal Gazette reports a multi-circle quintuplet formation in barley was discovered August 3, 2002. Five large circles 65 feet in diameter, with other smaller ones outside main formation. Thanks to Crop Watch 2002, http://www.canada.com/search/site/story.asp?id=3DB119A396-98E0-446A-867D-F5A= AA2E05 ARGENTINA POLICEMAN SEES GIANT UFO CHAJ'N -- Guillermo Arias was on patrol at 11 PM, on July 21, 2002, when a radio call alerted him that police in Achiras were seeing lights heading toward him. As he drove the police patrol van, he saw a formation of seven lights and followed them ten kilometers along a rural dirt road when his engine died. The van's dashboard lights began turning on and off, the police radio went haywire and its dial displayed random frequencies while the van was filled with an acrid odor like burnt wiring. The interior lights came on and off. Seized by fear, Arias jumped out of the van and lost his cell-phone. Suddenly an immense light emerged from an adjacent field. A triangular object rose majestically. He described it as a real "floating city" 200 meters long with a long row of about 100 windows. Arias saw something move behind him, that he defined as "non- human." Numerous beams of light came out of the giant triangle, aimed at the ground for several seconds. The object suddenly rose and sped away lighting up the area like daylight. Recovering from his nervous condition, he returned to the vehicle and notified his comrades of the experience, receiving radio instruction that reinforcements were being set out. Patrolman Barrios from Achiras was trying to keep him calm over the radio, while Sgt. Medina, who was the first to arrive on the scene, and Sgt. Cordoba were among the officers who reached the area to lend aid to their comrade in distress. Thanks to Scott Corrales Translation (C) 2002. and C.O.R. (Circulo Ovnil=F3gico Riocuartense). ENGLAND CLUSTER OF OVAL UFO'S BY CROP CIRCLES AVEBURY -- On July 27, 2002, after exploring two crop circles in the field near Avebury at about 6 PM, the witnesses took several photos of the Trusloe Prehistoric Standing Stones. Later they noticed on the photographs, that there were many oval shaped UFO's in the distance. Most of the objects seem to have a slight aura and one of them has a Saturn or flat hat shape. They did not see the UFO's at the time. UKRAINE UFO WAS VIDEOTAPED NEAR AIR SHOW CRASH SKNILOV AERODROME -- Stunning video was shown on Ukrainian ICTV and Russian television showing an unidentified object skimmed a Ukrainian fighter jet moments before it crashed into a crowd of aviation enthusiasts killing 84 people on July 27, 2002. This is the most tragic air crash in the world history during an air shows. The crashing Su-27 fighter killed 27 children, and wounded 199. The video clearly shows a UFO that is mentioned by the TV commentator, that passes near the descending Su-27 fighter that killed so many. The UFO is a clearly visible long white cylinder, or cigar shaped, that quickly flew directly behind the Su-27 for 1.5 seconds. The stunning discovery was made due to the detailed analysis of the tape by the investigation commission and speculation is circulating it could have been a factor in the crash. General Evgeniy Marchuk, Head of the state commission on investigation, analysis of the flight recorder indicated that all systems of the aircraft, including engines, were functioning normally, and Colonel Vladimir Toponar and pilot-inspector, colonel Uriy Egorov safely ejected out of the aircraft. Some other experts conclude that human factor -- bravado of the pilots and insufficient organization by the flight directors of this air show -- caused the tragedy. Several high ranking officers have been arrested. The hypothesis that the UFO could (accidentally) have influenced the aircraft's systems or pilots, is not totally excluded? Thanks to Anton Anfalov, Research Specialist for MUFON. Editor's Note: This case could become the most important proof for UFOs in modern history. Powerful men must defend themselves using a UFO as the cause of the accident. AUSTRALIA THREE FLASHING LIGHTS ALLORA, QUEENSLAND -- The witness was driving on July 25, 2002, and observed three flashing lights in the sky at 8:45 PM, so she stopped his car, turned the engine off, and got a better look. Three salience objects were hovering in a line. The witness states, "I could not see exact shape because it was dark, but I saw a large single light on each craft that was flashing in sequences like they where communicating or something. I heard and saw two maybe three jets. I drove home and went into my back yard and saw the jets go over. The three objects were also moving faster and seemed to be still silent into the distance away from the jets. As the jets got closer the three objects started to move slowly away and gained speed as the jets got closer. I watched and the three objects move faster away, still flashing in sequences. I saw a fleckle of silver on one of the objects as both objects and jets flew over Allora Mountain and they disappeared. ELLSWORTH AIR FORCE BASE, SD UFO INCIDENT 1977 OR WAS IT REALLY 1970? A HOAX OR TRUE? Robert Collins writes, Report of Inquiry, Nuclear Incident, Bent Spear, Minuteman II Missile Site, Delta 4 at Ellsworth AFB SD, on 17 January 1970, "At 0340 hrs, Lt Michael Sehorn, 68th Strategic Missile Squadron, Launch control facility, reported an outer zone alarm at Delta 4. Security Alert Team observed a large object resting on the ground northwest of the missile site. At 0431 hrs, an inner zone alarm was detected by Lt. Sehorn. At 0510 hrs, Lt Sehorn reported the missile Launch sequence panel was reset to zero, thus disabling the missiles in his squadron. A second panel light indicated that Delta 4's warhead was not responding according to specific levels. It was determined that the upper hatch had been opened and a person was climbing down the ladder to the second hatch. Security police challenged the individual who did not respond. It was determined that the detonator of the warhead had been removed. The detonator was found lying on the bottom of the silo." For the whole story please see: http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports/ellsworth_ufo_incident_70.htm CORDELL HULL SAYS, ALIEN ARTIFACTS WERE RETRIEVED IN 1939 William E. Jones writes, "I thought your readers should be aware of the Cordell Hull story that alien artifacts were in our hands in 1939." In early December of 1999 the Center of UFO Studies received a letter from the daughter of the Reverend Turner Hamilton Holt: "Today I want to share some knowledge that has been, by request, kept secret in our family since sometime in World War II. This concerns something my father was shown by his cousin Cordell Hull, the Secretary of State under Franklin Roosevelt. snip My father, who was young, brilliant, and sound of mind, told us this story because he didn't want the information to be lost. One day when my father was in D.C,. Cordell swore him to secrecy and took him to a sub-basement in the U.S. Capitol building, and showed him an amazing sight: (1) Four large glass jars holding 4 creatures unknown to my father or Cordell [and], (2) A wrecked round craft of some kind nearby. "My father wanted my sister and I to make this information known long after he and Cordell were dead, because he felt it was a very important bit of information. We have researched your group and feel it is the most reliable group in the country. We hope that you will research and search this information. The jars with creatures in formaldehyde and the wrecked craft are some where! "Cordell said they were afraid they would start a panic if the public found out about it." Sincerely, Lucile Andrew, Ashland, Ohio. Cordell Hull was one of the greatest statesmen of the 20th Century with absolutely no apparent reason to tell this story unless it was true, especially at a time when stories of flying saucers and their alien drivers had not yet become part of our culture. Hull was elected U.S. Senator 1931-1937, was chairman of the Democratic National Committee, and became the Secretary of State under President Franklin D. Roosevelt in March 1933, the longest in American history until 1944, when he resigned because of ill health. He was also offered the Vice Presidency and in 1945, Cordell Hull won the 1945 Nobel Prize for Peace. Reverend Holt and Hull were both born in Pickett County and were cousins and friends. Holt attained a Doctor in Theology degree from Ashland Theological Seminary, and was a minister at the Shenandoah Christian Church in Greenwich, Ohio. He was a community leader, and wrote a book entitled Life's Convictionss. He married Vina May Clark and they had three daughters. Two of the daughters claim they had been told about the creatures by their father. Lucile's original letter essentially tells the story as her father told it to her when she was a teenager. Unfortunately, Lucile said that she was too young to really pay much attention to what her father told her but Allene the mother of Eloise, the co-author of this story was told the same story as her sister. Both sisters assured us that they remember the stories independently. Reverend Holt described the entities in the glass jars as "creatures, a term common for his day.." He never referred to them as "aliens" or "extraterrestrials." He never said where they came from. Lucile stated that his experience happened in the "late 1930s," probably 1939. The material that was nearby the less than four feet tall creatures was described as "silver metallic." She also remembers him referring to the material as being a "vehicle" that appeared to have been taken apart and was "in pieces." He said the color of this material wasn't a color that he had seen before, but for the lack of a better word he used "silver." Reverend Holt was not the sort of person to make up such a wild story and, the sisters feel that by telling the story they are following their father's wishes. Barbara A. Wolamin, "the curator U.S. Capitol building," chuckled a bit after being told the story. She said, "She had never heard about these creatures being stored at the Capitol, but she did confirm there was a sub-basement that was divided into storage rooms back then. She said that the building had been significantly changed over the years, so in a small way, part of Reverend Holt's story checked out. After Cordell Hull left government service he wrote his memoirs in a two-volume book set. No reference, to this story appeared in these pages, in his papers in the Library of Congress. Numerous experts and libraries were contacted and there has been no confirmation for the story. If four alien bodies and other world technology were retrieved in1939, what would that do to our interpretation of the U.S. Government's involvement in UFO research? One would assume prior knowledge would have made the government ready for an event like Roswell and that the Roswell retrieval was more efficient because of that. This is a story that truly deserves further investigation. Thanks to William E. Jones MUFON State Director for Ohio. Dr. Irena Scott and CUFOS International UFO Reporter 2002 NASA's SPACE ENCOUNTERS Jeff Challender has released the new video "What Is the Truth?". The second video examining NASA and its space encounters with 102 anomalous objects. These events were culled from 1400+ hours raw footage of ten live Shuttle flight broadcasts between Oct. 2000 and April 2002. VHS $25. Send orders to: Jeff Challender 2768 Mendel Way Sacramento, CA 95833-2011 WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George Filer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 7 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 32 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 20:43:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 17:22:43 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 32 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 32 August 6, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ HANUMAN GOES ON RAMPAGE IN PATNA, INDIA He's back! The creature called Hanuman, also known as "the Monkey Man" or "the Monkey Monster" popped up in northern India last week. "Almost a year after residents in the Indian capital" of New Delhi "were terrorized by the alleged attacks of an elusive monkey-like creature, the eastern city of Patna says it too is facing similar attacks from an ape-like animal." Patna is a large city on the south bank of the river Ganges, in Bihar state, located about 600 kilometers (360 miles) east-southeast of New Delhi. "Local newspapers here" in Bihar state "are full of reports of 'mysterious monkey attacks,' but police have scotched the stories and warned of strict (legal) action against those spreading rumors." "'There are rumors of a monkey-like machine (cyborg- -J.T.), referred to as Monkey-Man, that attacks those sleeping on rooftops and in open places at night,' said O.N. Bhaskar, Patna's police chief. 'But it is pure rumor, as no one has actually lodged a case in any police station. There have not been any recognized cases of injury. We have warned the public at large to be on guard against any rumors and to help police arrest those who spread such rumors.'" "Residents of Patna were not reassured, with local newspapers headlining quotes from eyewitnesses and victims of the 'monkey-man.'" "'The monkey-man attacked and injured my son-in-law, Joginder Singh, on Friday night (July 19, 2002) while he was sleeping on the rooftop of my house,' a newspaper quoted Bhagwat Sharan Singh of Patna's Mainpura colony (district) as saying, 'He (the attacker--J.T.) looked like a monkey.'" "Some even alleged the creature 'jumps and sparkles with red and blue lights.'" "Other described it as resembling a machine, operated by remote control and 'handled by anti-social elements to terrorize people.'" "Police chief Bhaskar said hospitals and doctors had been told to report any case of injury attributed to the mysterious creature." "Meanwhile, fear of 'the monkey-man' took an ugly turn when a group of people beat up a Hindu sadhu (itinerant holy man--J.T.) with a flowing beard, on suspicion that he was the creature." "The incidents in Patna seemed almost identical to the attacks reported in the Indian capital last May (2001) when, for more than a month, a 'mysterious monkey- like creature' besieged New Delhi." (Editor's Note: For the full story of last year's Hanuman flap, see UFO Roundup, volume 6, number 20 for May 17, 2001, "Weird new 'manimal' appears in India," page 1, and UFO Roundup, volume 6, number 21 for May 24, 2001, "India cites Hanuman for two murders," page 1; "Hanuman goes on a rampage in India's Trans-Yumana," page 2; and "Hindu avatar or FEMA cyborg?" page 3.) "Descriptions agreed that the creature was 'black' and 'ape-like, with sharp claws,' but varied on its height with some reporting it as over 1.8 meters (6 feet) tall while others said it was about 0.7 meters (2 feet) tall." "At least two people, including a pregnant woman, were killed in a crush when hysterical people tried to escape into their homes when hearing that the monkey-man was near." "A number of others were treated for scratches and bite wounds in hospital but a special police enquiry dismissed the 'monkey-man scare' as a figment of imagination and a product of mass hysteria." (See the Hindustan Times for July 22, 2002. Many thanks to Jim Hickman and Gerry Lovell for this newspaper article.) NEW WAVE OF MUTILATIONS STRIKES ARGENTINA There was a sharp upsurge in the number of cattle mutilations in Argentina last week, raising speculation that a new cycle of slayings is underway. "Four mutilated cows were found again some 12 kilometers (8 miles) southwest of Bartolome de las Casas, having the same characteristics as earlier cases. Two were found on Wednesday (July 24, 2002) and two more on Thursday (July 25, 2002) in a field owned by Ariel 'Papin' Suarez." "The fifth animal was found yesterday (Saturday, July 27, 2002) in Estanislao del Campo. The victim was a cow belonging to Victor Andres Roldan in the Ranero Cuia pasture field, some 10 kilometers (6 miles) from" Estanislao del Campo, "having all the characteristics such as 'mutilation,' 'cauterization' and 'millimetric incisions.'" "Fourteen 'unverified' reports were received in the Fontana and Bartolome de las Casas region. Reports included a young horse, a (water) buffalo and 12 bovines." (Editor's Note: This is the fourth horse mutilation in Argentina in 2002.) In Buenos Aires province, "a few farmers informed (the newspaper) El Tiempo last night (Friday, July 26, 2002) that while surveying the El Yunque ranch in the locality of Parish, they found a bovine presenting signs of mutilation. The case, according to the rural worker's description, was similar to others detected in the area and in other parts of the country (Argentina). In this particular case, the animal showed mutilations in the rectal area, tongue, eyes and jaw." In the southern part of the province, near Balcarce, "the discovery of a mutilated cow in a field of the Buena Vista area is surprising in itself, but the discovery of waterless tanks and a lemon tree that lost all of its leaves in a single night, and cows suddenly found in another pen, have made the event an unexplainable one." Field owner Gustavo Dimuro "remarked that last Sunday afternoon (July 21, 2002) he was touring the fields and distributing rolls (bales in the USA--J.T.) of hay for the cattle to eat, and did not detect any anomalous activity. Since there was no rain on Monday morning (July 22, 2002), he made the same tour with Jorge Latorre, and it was then that they found the dead bovine." "Approaching it, they were able to attest that it had been mutilated in the same manner as in the cases which have appeared in the national media." "'We have found that the entire palate bone was skinned, its tongue was missing, and its anus and genitals had been torn off. It was a three-to-four year old cow, pregnant, and in excellent health,' Dimuro remarked, adding that when they found the (calf) fetus it was intact." "Although they gave little importance to it at the time, after the discovery, they remembered that only a few days ago the two water tanks in the field had been found completely dry. Both tanks have cement floors. They refilled them and (later) found that both tanks were still full, showing no signs of leaks anywhere." "Another notable event occurred between last Sunday (July 21, 2002) and Monday (July 22, 2002). A lemon tree close to the site where the animal was found was completely leafless." "The strange events didn't end there, as to everyone's surprise, there were animals who had changed pasture fields without any explanation. 'In a single pasture field of 200 animals, I found three cows in one pasture and two in another, where the heifers are kept. We looked to see if the barbed wire had been broken, and we found nothing,'" Dimuro said, "'We can't explain how this happened.'" In addition, "several birds appeared mysteriously mutilated in the vicinity of El Fuerte, department of Santa Barbara. Police sources informed (the newspaper) Pregon that for the time being the studies have failed to yield any results regarding the reason why the animals died: emptied out through their anal sphincters without any signs of injury or aggression." According to the Sheriff's Office in Palma Sola, "to whose jurisdiction El Fuerte belongs...the mutilated birds belong to Fortunato Morales, a resident of El Fuerte, who claims that eight chickens died under these strange circumstances during the past three months." "The animals have had their entrails extracted through the anal sphincter. The bodies are dry, bloodless and odorless. The means of killing does not correspond to any predator in the area. It was also known that the police officers in charge of the investigation requested the collaboration of the SENASA veterinarian at Palma Sola, Dr. Mario Portal." (Editor's Note: SENASA is a Spanish acronym that stands for National Health and Agroalimentary Quality Service. This El Fuerte case bears a close resemblance to classic Chupacabra attacks in recent years in Chile and Brazil.) In Chaco province, "a mutilation took place in La Tigra, in a field 10 kilometers (6 miles) from the urban center. The pasture field, located in Lot 12, belongs to Horacio Salivar, 35, and held a bovine that met the same fate as other similar animals who made the national news." Salivar said "that a neighbor had told him last Tuesday (July 30, 2002) that there was 'a flutter of crows' over his field. Upon reaching the field, he found that an 11-month-old calf had died but revealed strange injuries, among them the absence of eyes, tongue, maxillary (jaw) muscles and anus." "The cattleman, confronted by the scene, alerted the local police unit, which in turn informed the Livestock Agency, contacting Pedro Tomas Bosch and the provincial capital's Rural and Ecological Police." "There was a considerable number of crows flying over the area but, contrary to what is usually the case when an animal dies, none of the birds approached the dead calf. Nor did the other bovines, who usually surround their dead companion, come close." "'It was evident that it had been dead for a few days,'" Salivar said, "'But it (the calf) was neither stiff nor smelly. One of my cows died a while back, and in that case, the crows ate it up in a matter of hours. This is very odd, and it's the first time I've ever seen it.'" "Finally, Salivar highlighted that both he and his friend refused to touch the animal 'because it's something weird. I don't believe, as it is said, that the (red-muzzled) mouse is involved, because in looking at the animal's position, it is very strange for it to die like that, and that its eyes, tongue and everything else should be extracted so cleanly. Several days have gone by, and there's still no odor. This is very weird,' he insisted." (See the Argentinian newspapers El Comercial for July 28, 2002, "Five cows mutilated;" El Tiempo for July 27, 2002, "Another bovine mutilated, this time in Parish;" El Diaro de Balcarce for July 28, 2002, "Waterless tanks and cows out of place?" Pregon for August 1, 2002, "Mutilated birds in El Fuerte;" and Norte of Chaco province for August 2, 2002, "Another mutilated cow, this time in La Tigra." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Alicia Rossi y Gloria Coluchi para todos eses articulos de diario.) UFOs REMAIN VERY ACTIVE ALL OVER ARGENTINA "A couple that was driving along last night (Friday, July 26, 2002) at around 9 p.m. from the SETIA Campground toward the city" of Chascomus, in Argentina's Buenos Aires province, "along the peripheral road, witnessed a large, sky-blue light, changing color and size," as it flew overhead. A reporter from the newspaper El Fuerte "was able to see the light, which at that time, remained stationary over Mount Brown, near the Playa San Jose beach facility. Its color was now red, and it gave off flashes." "Minutes later, a local resident contacted El Fuerte (to say that she had--S.C.) see the light descend and lose itself behind the treeline." "An hour later, at 10:30 p.m., two other witnesses saw the phenomenon on Route 20, near the Aeroclub. The object moved slowly westward. This sighting can be added to others which have been taking place in our area during recent months." Elsewhere in the province, "the alleged appearance of strange floating figures and red spheres moving at high speed during the night and in the sand dunes area leading toward the Playa Arroyo Pareja municipal beach, facing the Calle Corrientes and Calle Libertad (streets)" in Commandante Atlantida, south of Bahia Blanca, "wove a mantle of mystery around residents in that section of the city." And in La Rioja province, "local residents remarked that strange lights were seen over the hills of Ulapes during those days" when recent cattle mutilations took place, "and Jose Nievas said as much last Sunday (July 28, 2002) when he was in Aguayo and on his way back to Ulapes and saw two large lights moving swiftly over the mountains." "'I don't believe in witches,' said another cattleman, 'But they exist, all right.'" (See the Argentinian newspapers El Fuerte of Chascomus for July 27, 2002, "Strange lights over the lake;" La Nueva Provincia of Bahia Blanca for August 2, 2002, "Strange lights, figures allegedly seen in Cd. Atlantida;" and El Independencia of La Rioja province for July 30, 2002, "Lights, mutilated animals reported in Ulapes." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi y Alicia Rossi para todos eses articulos de diario.) DISC-SHAPED UFO SIGHTED IN TONBRIDGE, KENT A disc-shaped gray UFO identical to the one photographed in McMinnville, Oregon in 1950 was spotted several weeks ago in Tonbridge, Kent. "On Thursday, June 13, 2002, Bob Fetch and his son observed from their property in Tonbridge, Kent, England an object that they first thought was a child's helium- filled balloon. But the object was moving sideways and with speed, which aroused their suspicions." As they looked closer, "it appeared to be disc-shaped." "Mr. Fetch ran into the house to grab his camera and, with his son, ran after the object." "They found themselves in a field behind the Langley Hotel on London Road (in) Tonbridge, where they got a great view of the object, and there were several other people out walking their dogs who also saw the object, which was completely silent." "Mr. Fetch managed to take one clear photograph of the object, in colour, before it silently took off. They observed it for about 10 minutes." The photograph was published in a local newspaper, the Kent and East Sussex Chronicle. The Fetch photo "shows a disc-like object with what looks like an aerial or tower (cupola) on top, just like the McMinnville photographs taken by Paul Trent on May 11, 1950 and again photographed in 1954 by a French Air Force pilot." (See the Kent and East Sussex Chronicle for July 12, 2002. Many thanks to Chris Rolfe of UFO Monitors-East Kent for this report.) LUMINOUS UFO OBSERVED IN DAWLISH, DEVON On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 10:50 p.m., Philip Cross was outdoors in Dawlish, Devon, UK when he spotted a bright light approaching from the east. He reported, "I noticed a very bright light, which appeared to be hovering over Exeter. The object was completely stationary. When viewed through 15-power binoculars, the object had a central green light, with alternating red lights on each side." "As we watched the object, a smaller orange-amber light appeared to float around the central object. We tried using a 40-power telescope, but unfortunately the optics were not very good, and only showed a bright point of light." "Leaving the telescope trained on the object, it slowly moved westward, without gaining any height (altitude) and the stars behind the object climbed in the sky, the way they do with the earth's rotation. I phoned a friend, who also saw the object, but by the time he had located it and trained his telescope on it, it had just become a bright point of light. He suggested a satellite. Weirdest satellite I ever saw!" (Email Form Report) SEAGULLS ATTACK JOGGERS IN SOUTHERN FRANCE "Three marauding seagulls have been sighted in the last few days in Sate and Frontignan, in the department of Herault," on France's Mediterranean Sea coastline. "According to the Prefecture de Police in Montpellier, none of the humans targeted have been injured." "Seagulls attacked a jogger as she was running along the beach at Sate." "A pedestrian who wandered into the same stretch of beach was stung on the top of the head by a gull's beak." "A couple who attempted to board their boat in Frontignan were forced away by a flock of several virulent gulls who had taken possession of the boat." "A spokesman for the Prefecture de Police has asserted that 'attacks by gulls are very rare.'" Curiously, the gull attacks took place on Wednesday, July 17, 2002, the same day large owls attacked cropdusting planes over Veliki Popovac in eastern Serbia. (See the Agence France Press report for July 17, 2002. Merci beaucoup au Thierry Garnier de France OVNI pour ces nouvelles.) (Editor's Note: For more on mysterious bird attacks, see UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 31 for July 30, 2002, "Owls attack cropdusting planes in Serbia," page 9. Also, don't miss the feature story later on in this issue.) SOLITARY UFO RETURNS TO TERRACE, BRITISH COLUMBIA On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 12:25 a.m., the 17- year-old male witness was returning home to Terrace, British Columbia, Canada, a small town on the Skanee River 90 miles (150 kilometers) from Prince Rupert, when he "discovered there was a moving light in the sky, southwest of Terrace, towards Prince Rupert, at a high elevation. At first I thought it was a plane, but as the object kept moving further east and higher up in the sky, I began to realize it was in fact a cigar- or perhaps pancake-shaped object with a flickering bright light moving around the side (rim--J.T.)." "I still wasn't convinced until I noticed how eerily alien its maneuvers were. About two-and-a-half minutes after I had first seen it, it moved from a horizontal position to a diagonal position, but continued to slowly move in the sky in that diagonal position." "Since I was walking home at the time on Lanfear Road toward Lanfear Hill, I lost track of the object once I headed up the (forest) trail. But the last minute or so that I saw it, it began moving northwest, and the elevation began dropping. Then I lost sight of it because the trees along the trail obstructed my view." (Many thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for this report.) UFO FLOTILLA VIDEOTAPED IN MEXICO CITY On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 7:10 p.m., "Salvador Guerrero captured on video a small flotilla of seven gray barrel-shaped objects" as they were "flying over the eastern section of Mexico City." "According to the report by ufologist Ana Luisa Cid, Guerrero originally saw eight objects, but one darted away, and 'he was only able to catch the seven UFOs with his telephoto lens for a period of five minutes.'" "Guerrero said the UFOs 'moved slowly in formation,' three of them in a vertical line, and the remainder in a triangular formation." (See NotiOVNI for July 28, 2002. Muchas gracias a Daniel Munoz para esas noticias.) UNUSUAL "LIGHT STREAK" SIGHTED IN OHIO On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 1:15 a.m., Joseph R. had an unusual sighting in Brookville, Ohio (population 5,289). He reported, "I was fishing at a small lake when the sky lit up. Had experienced thunderstorms earlier that evening, so I thought it was lightning from another storm front coming my way. I turned around to see a streak traveling very fast, with a trail of smoke or something similar like you would see from a fighter jet or an airliner sometimes. But this thing also had flames near the front, and then, as fast as it appeared from the east, it burned up, I guess. All that was left was the trail of some sort of smoke. Very similar to what a vapor trail looks like in the summer sky. It was hundreds of feet in the air. I'm not sure of the speed." Brookville is about 10 miles (16 kilometers) west of Dayton, Ohio, which is the home of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. (Email Form Report) (Editor's Note: Until 1990, ufologists heard persistent rumors that the U.S. Air Force was keeping dead aliens in the freezer at Wright-Pat's Hangar 18. Later, Nevada's Area 51 became the reputed site of the alien storage facility.) REHOBOTH REPORTS FLIGHTS BY BLACK HELICOPTERS The black helicopters returned to Rehoboth, Massachusetts (population 7,600) yet again last week, causing baffled homeowners to ponder the meaning of the mysterious overflights. According to correspondent Mary Lou Jones-Drown, "On Saturday (July 27, 2002), we had another daylight helicopter flight when the house shook and the (farm) animals seemed nervous. Yet no helicopter was in sight." "Another witness said she could hear it, feel its vibration, and her cat was acting weird. But she couldn't see it, either." Mary Lou added that black helicopters were seen during the early evening hours of Monday, July 29, 2002, and Tuesday, July 30, 2002. "Now, the helicopters we've been able to see are all black. They look like the helicopter in the 1980s (TV) show Airwolf." Rural residents of Rehoboth are discussing the why of all these overflights. The majority believe that the black helicopters are flying covert anti-terrorist missions. They think terrorists may have targeted important sites near Rehoboth. Potential targets include the Pilgrim Monument in Plymouth, Mass., the Brayton Point electrical station in Somerset, Mass. and Touro Synagogue, one of the oldest in the USA, located in Newport, Rhode Island. On Saturday, August 3, 2002, WJAR-TV Channel 10 in Providence, R.I. stated that the National Guard units of Massachusetts and Rhode Island had just been outfitted with H-60 Blackhawk helicopters, Mary Lou reported, "One witness said, 'They look exactly like what we've been seeing!" (Many thanks to Mary Lou Jones-Drown for these reports.) (Editor's Note: For more on these recent overflights, see UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 30 for July 23, 2002, "Black helicopters return to Rehoboth," page 10.) CROP CIRCLES SCORE BIG AT THE BOX OFFICE "Signs invaded theaters this weekend, running circles around the competition and setting box office records for star Mel Gibson and director M. Night Shyamalan." "The story of extraterrestrials and a minister's loss of faith captured $60.3 million, according to studio estimates from box office tracker Nielsen EDI. It was by far the biggest debut for a film starring Gibson." "Signs also was the biggest opening for Shyamalan, who directed 1999's The Sixth Sense and 2000's Unbreakable, which grossed a combined $388.5 million." "The Gibson-Shyamalan combination, plus the public's interest in the crop circle phenomenon helped propel Signs, says Dick Cook, chairman of Walt Disney Studios, 'In order to get a number like that, you have to have all those things working.'" (See USA Today for August 5, 2002, "Fans follow 'Signs' to a big opening," page 1D.) From the UFO Files... 1934: BIZARRE OWL ATTACKS IN NEW YORK CITY Last week's owl attacks in Serbia seemed like a brand-new phenomenon. But, in actuality, this has happened before. Consider the strange and long-forgotten case of the "Douglaston Devil." Here's the story just as it appeared in the New York Times: "A vigilante committee, formed to hunt down a savage night bird that had attacked at least five persons along 241st Street, Douglaston, Queens (a borough of New York City--J.T.), within the last five nights, patrolled the vicinity for more than two hours last night (Sunday, June 17, 1934) without catching a glimpse of the marauder." "Just before the vigilantes turned out, the mysterious bird--which is believed to be a screech owl-- chalked up his sixth victim. He was Charles Taylor, a student of New York University. Taylor reported that the bird struck at him as he was crossing the lawn to his home. He ducked and the bird skimmed past his head." "The bird's other victims, all neighbors on 241st Street in the Douglaston Park sector, were Arthur L. Stemler, treasurer of Bancamerica Blair; Russell Cadigan, a stock broker; Mrs. Earl R. Evans, a 23-year-old housewife; Peggy Noone, 13-year-old daughter of John B. Noone, assistant secretary and treasurer of Standard Brands; and William MacDonald." "The vigilantes, about 20 strong, assembled at Mr. Cadigan's home before nightfall. They were armed with lawn rakes, rug beaters, tennis racquets, an assortment of clubs, and even one bayonet and one rusty machete, souvenir of the Cuban Insurrection (of 1895--J.T.). Henry M. Ferguson, a bank engineer, wore a Prussian helmet. Earl Trangmar, director of marketing research for the Metropolitan Life, had another steel hat and carried the machete." "Up and down the street they marched, using unarmed vigilantes as decoys to lead the way while the rake and machete-equipped strongarm men carried up the rear. Joseph Spiro, owner of Douglaston's taxi fleet, hooted at intervals. Once his imitation was so realistic that a vigilante swatted him with a tennis racquet." "Mosquitoes came and went, leaving their mark on the vigilantes. A group of youngsters strolled by and began chanting, 'Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Bird?' Wives hooted from suburban doorways. Patrolman George Ludwig was summoned by a grouchy neighbor to drive the rowdies away. And there wasn't a chirp out of the man-eating bird, not a single hoot, even of derision." "Finally the vigilantes broke up. Their wives and unsympathetic friends saw that they got the bird--but not the one they were seeking. Their initial defeat did not, however, change their stories of the savagery of the feathered attacker." "All six attacks were on 241st Street between Snell Boulevard and Rushmore Avenue. The heavy foliage of the maple trees on both sides of the street hides the marauder by day and at night serves as a leafy ambuscade whence, at any moment, a winged fury with blazing eyes and nerve-shattering screech may drop upon an unprotected head." "Mr. Stemler was the first to have an encounter with the 'Douglaston Devil.' The next victim was Mr. Cadigan. When he told his story to commuters the next day, they joked about it so mercilessly that he determined to capture the bird. He is the originator of the vigilantes." "Peggy Noone, third on the bird's attack list, was less seriously hurt than the others. She managed to ward it off by raising her arm and received a long scratch on her hand instead of a scraped forehead." "Mrs. Evans was attacked shortly before midnight Saturday (June 16, 1934). She and her brother, Mr. Tyrell, had gone for a walk. Hardly had they left her home at 46-54 241st Street, when the bird flew down. They beat it off, but it returned to the attack. It flew at them five times and then disappeared." "'I could not see the bird clearly at all,' Mrs. Evans said. 'It seemed dark and had a wingspread of about sixteen inches (40 centimeters). It kept flapping its wings in my face and shrieking and trying to get at my eyes.'" "Other persons in the neighborhood could add little to that description except that the bird seemed soft and furry." "Dr. W. Reid Blair, curator of the Bronx Zoo, said he believed the nightbird would prove to be a screech owl with a nest in the vicinity." (See the New York Times for June 18, 1934, "Queens vigilantes hunt savage bird," page 19.) (Editor's Comment: Somebody ought to write a book about every weird thing that happened in New York City during the forty-year span between the disappearance of Judge Crater on August 6, 1930 and the birth of Jennifer Lopez on July 24, 1970. I think it would be a best-seller.) That's it for this week. We'll be back in seven days with more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." And get set for some strange doings down in Memphis, Tennessee on or about August 16, 2002. I can sum it up in just one word-- Elvis. See you next time. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Article - UFO Sighting Over Houston/Telkwa, BC From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 14:26:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:37:34 -0400 Subject: Article - UFO Sighting Over Houston/Telkwa, BC UFO Sighting In Telkwa & Houston, B.C. by Nicole Fitzgerald The Interior News Smithers, B.C. Wednesday, August 7, 2002 www.interior-news.com By Nicole Fitzgerald The Interior News On July 29, winding down from a day on his Telkwa farm, Gordon Stewart settled into his chair facing two bay windows, overlooking the valley for a late-night movie. At 10:45 p.m., a bright light flashed by his field of vision, raising him from his chair, astonished at the peculiarity and speed of the sight. After walking onto the front porch for a clearer view, only silence filled the valley sky smudged with light cloud cover. He called the RCMP. There was no air force activity in the area. he woke his wife Joanna, who had already turned in for the night without hearing or seeing anything. On sharing his description of the round, white light with a yellowish hue, he learned his wife had seen the same light in the same location a couple of months earlier. "I didn't want to tell him because he'd think I was crazy," Joanne recounted. Earlier that evening at 10.20 p.m. in Houston, a Canfor employee stepped from a forklift to examine a phosphorescent like white ball of light with yellow undertones, which appeared to hover, before slowly crawling across the sky line. The worker called out to two fellow co-workers who caught sight of the glowing light, which grew a tail as it gained momentum. The phenomenon gained speed towards Tweedsmuir Park and shot out of view over the horizon. "I called them over because I wanted proof that I saw something and that I wasn't crazy," the Canfor employee explained. Despite having two witnesses, the Canfor employee wished to remain anonymous. Despite his wife having seen the same phenomenon's, Stewart was relieved a similar sighting was reported the same day. (Caption for picture): UNIDENTIFIABLE WHITE LIGHT: Stewart caught the tail end of a movie when he was startled from his chair by an unidentifiable round light streaking across the valley. Combined with his house being stationed at 3,000 feet - Smithers sits at approximately 1,750 feet - and large bay windows, Stewart has an ideal birds eye view of air traffic. (Picture of BRIAN VIKE, HBCC UFO Research Investigator.) Crazy and UFO are often terms that go hand in hand when trying to determine an experience that appears to be out of this world. Already this year, over 70 unidentifiable sightings have been reported in northern B.C. Only two days before the Telkwa/Houston sighting, an erratically moving, bright light was spotted in Prince George. Sightings in Prince Rupert and Port Simpson were reported the same day of Stewart's experience. The two days that followed it reports from Terrace were filed on a glowing, cigar-shaped craft and four multiple sightings of an unidentifiable light. "There is so much going on here it's nuts", Houston B.C. Canada UFO researcher Brian Vike remarked. Vike suspects action in space is growing with the number of hits he receives on his UFO website. "Recently, I have been getting numerous hits," he said, "Everything from the National Defense Department to Federal Aviation". He also noted that open information transitions between himself and the National Department of Defense has since clammed up with the publishing of the recent sighting in Telkwa - where three women attested to seeing an unidentified object with bright lights. "No one wants to say anything and I am kind of wondering why", He questioned. "Is the military running a project we are not aware of? Something has happened I just don't know what ... yet". Many of these speculated extraterrestrial occurrences have been explained away as meteorites, flying exercises, space debris and the result of power towers. A recent space ship sighting in Smithers turned out to be the planets Jupiter and Venus. Stewart dismisses many of these suspicions in his case. He began by explaining that the object flew in a flat line unlike meteorite or space debris's falling arc pattern. Planes might be a credible explanation, but because no sound was detected and the size of the light - the size of a pick up truck from the distance he sat at - flew so low, a plane wasn't a logical solution in Stewart's mind. According to Central Mountain Air, there were no late night flights except for a training run July 29. Northern Thunderbird training was up between 10:07 - 11:04, however, a Central Mountain Air spokesperson saw no connection between the occurrences. She speculated that the tiny Cessna 185 would not emit a bright light of that magnitude and its engines would be heard at a close proximity. Although a comet spotted the same evening would solve Stewart's mystery, its glowing green light, arc-shaped flight and Hudson Bay Mountain location did not pair up with what he saw - leaving Stewart questioning, "What the heck was it?" For Stewart, the speed of the light was the most notable. "If you had blinked, you would have missed it, it was that fast," he said. He assessed the light reached faster than the speed of light at over 650 miles per hour. Stewart is well acquainted to gauging speed, he assessed, after driving dragsters that reached up to 200 miles per hour. As to whether he believes in another life force traveling through the universe, Stewart has always believed since reading space comic books as a kid, that people on earth weren't the only ones out here. "There's too much on earth not to disbelieve," he argued, noting other phenomenon's such as the Pyramids. "I think there was someone before us." Despite Stewart's open mind towards other life forms, he talked himself through other possible explanations, but came to the same conclusion: "I knew I saw something out of the ordinary". Although highly skeptical, the Canfor employee agreed his sighting was something more than an every day occurrence. "In my mind it looked like a meteorite," he comforted himself, but wavered as he turned the 20 second experience over in his mind. "But, it was like no meteorite I've ever seen. I've seen meteorite showers before, but they never looked anything like this. I really don't know what it was." ------------ HBCC UFO Research Addition: I was contacted by the reporter who received this story, and I also went out and interviewed Mr. Gordon Stewart and his wife. Had a pleasant visit in their beautiful home in Telkwa, B.C., Canada. I am still working on his case, and a case it has become. What is not mentioned in the above article, is that the military were all over the area. Military trucks were seen scouring the back roads in the area, plus traveling through Houston, B.C. Also a military aircraft (Transport) also arrived at the airport. Also not mentioned is that the airport said nothing that they were aware of had taken place, such as anything to do with the military being flying in or out of the area, plus no military exercises were taking place. well in the story, and I have found out myself that indeed there were some type of military exercises that did take place. I also talked with the RCMP who brought out the sighting report, (keeping it turned from my sight due to policy which i understand), the constable I talked with said he was not aware of any military being in the area what so ever. He also mentioned that no other RCMP constables had reported anything of the kind. well folks, I am still working on this case and will have a full report once done. Oh yes, since I posted a "short" email letting everyone know what had taken place on July 29, 2002. It looks as if the military have been looking through my website once again. Funny thing is, this only happens when there is a really good case to work on, or good sighting. Such as the giant UFO which flew right over top of three ladies on their way home from Smithers. But as you know, they are not interested in the subject of UFOs. -:))) Take care Brian HBCC UFO Research
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 New Book On Crop Circles From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 23:01:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:53:25 -0400 Subject: New Book On Crop Circles I haven't read this one yet but Freddy Silva is a thorough and well respected veteran researcher into this phenomena, which, because of three movies, is currently getting massive exposure all over the world, Regards, Dave Haith ----- SECRETS IN THE FIELDS: THE SCIENCE AND MYSTICISM OF CROP CIRCLES. Author Freddy Silva Pub. Hampton Roads, 336pp, with over 400 photos, diagrams, and pictograms, in colour and black & white. For further information, and to secure your pre-publication copy, please visit the author's web page (includes sample pages of the book): http://home.clara.net/lovely/secrets.html For the Order Form and details please follow the link at the bottom of that page.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Roswell Proof Website Launched - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 00:32:57 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:51:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Proof Website Launched - Goldstein >From: Dave Vetterick <veterick@ix.netcom.com> >To: UFO Update <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 10:50:59 -0500 >Subject: Re: Roswell Proof Website Launched >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:36:20 -0700 >>Subject: Roswell Proof Website Launched >>My Website on the Roswell incident is up and running: >>www.roswellproof.homestead.com >>Some highlights: >>A graphic of the two key phrases in the Ramey message -- this is >>all you need to see to forever dismiss a balloon explanation: >>www.roswellproof.homestead.com/critical_phrases.html >>My rendition of the _complete_ Ramey teletype message, including >>graphics and a detailing of my methodology in attacking it: >>www.roswellproof.homestead.com/reconstruct.html >>www.roswellproof.homestead.com/methodology.html ><snip> >Congratulations to David on his excellent work and Website. I >urge everyone to take a look. >Hopefully, this will stir things up a bit and generate some new >information. >Dave Vetterick Hi Dave, David, and all Listerions, I second the congratulations. I must admit that due to temporary time limitaations I have barely scratched the surface of David=E6s site. I am wrapping up a music project and once again will be ready to plunge headfirst into Roswell again. I must confess that over the last couple of decades all the twists and turns of the case have progressively blown my mind. I chose to start on his site by going into his presentation of the Nellis UFO that I was first introduced to in 1994 on the Sightings show. That UFO that suddenly appeared on the radars and the video cameras at two locations out on the Nellis range. Was it one of ours that flew over from nearby Area 51? If so, why were the range operators not warned and had prepared their sites for things they were not to see or know anything about? They were asking each other what it was as it was shown on their range video monitors. If you have never seen the video please do so now. This case has puzzled me for a long time. Dave does a great job on presenting today's status of this fascinating sighting through it's background, new research (be sure to check out all the links), and fine writing. Now for a new plunge into how Dave covers Roswell. I can guess he has used his skills as well as he did with the Nellis UFO. Onward to infinity, Josh By the way, if Larry Bryant ever gets the grand jury into operation in Roswell I wonder if it will end up with the true witnesses honored and the disgraced poseurs tarred and feathered in front of the city hall. The latter group could possibly start out with people such as Frank Kauffman, Glenn Dennis, etc. Will the grand jury send them to courts for "frontier justice"?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Contradictions Emerge in Reporting Argentine From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:05:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:56:49 -0400 Subject: Contradictions Emerge in Reporting Argentine SOURCE: El Diario de La Pampa DATE: Wednesday, August 7, 2002 CONTRADICTIONS EMERGE IN REPORTING ANIMAL MUTES "There exist no orders to cease accepting reports on cattle mutilations," said the chief of Regional Unit 1, Sheriff Inspector Juan Carlos Gorris, as well as the Assistant Chief of R.U. IV in the town of 25 de Mayo, Deputy Sheriff Osvaldo Olie, in regard to public statements by rural livestock producer Julia Cavanah, who said: "Local police do not take down reports involving mutilated cows, because there are orders from above [not to do so]." "Under no circumstances can we stop accepting reports, because we are obligated to act. The judge will determine later on if a crime should be investigated or not," said Gorris. On this issue, the Chief of R.U.1 indicated that "today (meaning yesterday) I was in touch with the chief of the Tel=E9n Dependency (deputy sheriff Hector Bucher) and I asked him to go to the El Nauco ranch, 120 km away from said town, to make the pertinent inquiries." While adding that the did not have Bucher's report in hand, he pointed out that "no one has gone to the sheriff's office to file a report on these cases." He then explained that El Nauco ranch is 50 hectares in size, and in this regard, "part of it falls under the jurisdiction of RU1 (at the Tel=E9n Sheriff's Office) and the other under RU IV (the Chacharramendi police station). The officer in charge of RU IV, Osvaldo Olie, indicated that "we are in the middle of an investigation. We still do not have official information to give out, because we're just finding out what happened." Julia Cavanagh is the daughter of the pasture field's administrator, located some 70 km west of Chacharramendi, where she said that since June 20th to date, "six cows and four bulls have been found mutilated." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales, IHU Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:59:50 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Speiser >Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:02:09 -0600 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net <snip> >There is no place for you or CSICOP among the honest seekers of >knowledge or truth, both in legitimate science and legitimate >research into the paranormal. The world no longer needs your >kind. It hasn't for a long, long time. Self-deception is your >Epitaph. CSICOP, your Momument of Shame. Come on, Wendy, lighten up on the guy. You're painting him like the Osama bin Laden of Ufology. All he is is wrong! And I happen to think CSICOP's principles - _when_ they stick to them - are legitimate goals. There _is_ a serious lack of a foundation of scientific knowledge among Americans, and much of what's out there is superstition masquerading as science. We _do_ need CSICOP - or at least some form of organized skepticism. It's the tail on our kite, that keeps us from flying off out of control in all directions. Their problem is they try to weight the kite down so much that it won't fly at all. But all in all, they are a necessary part of the point- counterpoint that assures that we really _know_ what we know, because it's been subjected to rigorous review. They have largely succeeded in the areas of psychic phenomena, medical frauds, and faith-healing. They've tried their best with UFOs, and simply failed. We are more secure in our knowledge of the subject for their having tried. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 More Witnesses Come Forward In Telkwa/Houston From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:46:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:02:40 -0400 Subject: More Witnesses Come Forward In Telkwa/Houston Telkwa/Houston Sighting Hi Guys & gals Well just got off the telephone with a retired teacher. She, her son and husband all watch a "Huge" glowing white-yellowish object fly straight down the valley from their home. She tells they were really not that far away from it, and not a sound they heard from it. She made a bunch of calls, to two different airports, back east, just all over to enquire about it. She mentioned to me that she thought the object, what ever it was, was going to crash. So it was so out of the norm she even had written down in her journal what she saw and took place. So I have made arrangements to get back in the car and head out for an interview with her. Again , the darn tower has no knowledge of anything, but Central Mountain Air knows something which they mentioned to me and the newspaper. This just makes me wonder why the military was running around the area, but hey guys, they weren't here. Right !!! To many people have seen them now. Take care Brian BTW - So far 6 witnesses to this sighting.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:19:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:04:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:56:39 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight >>From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:48:17 -0400 >>Subject: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight >An excellent presentation. Even hoaxers admitted to seeing balls >of light at night and to genuine crop formations. Well, that sure settles it for me! ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 22:43:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:07:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:56:39 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight >>From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:48:17 -0400 >>Subject: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight >>'Crop Circles: In Search of a Sign' >>For twenty years, crop circles appeared with increasing >>frequency in crops around the world. Hoaxers stepped forward, >>but how could they create so many complex circles? Follow >>scientists, astronomers, and archaeologists as they examine crop >>circles. >>Tuesday, August 6, 2002 >>TLC at 6:00 PM and 9:00 PM [Pacific] >>Friday, August 10, 2002 >>TLC at 3:00 PM (repeat, check time) >>Check local listings for your time zone >I watched it. Hey, where were those debunkers? >An excellent presentation. Even hoaxers admitted to seeing balls >of light at night and to genuine crop formations. Now, would >they please do one like that on Roswell. The one thing that bothered me is the hoaxers got to demonstrate for the show left footprints from which the show's producers leapt to the conclusion that they all had footprints left by hoaxers, who later blamed the footprints on those who discovered the crop circles. Is it just me? Or does anyone else find this quite odd?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 CI: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life In The Solar From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:09:26 -0400 Subject: CI: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life In The Solar Cydonian Imperative 8-7-02 SETI and Intelligent Alien Life in the Solar System by Mac Tonnies See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html 1. The Demise of "Academic" SETI? The "mainstream" Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) has finally conceded that it's not impossible that aliens are already here, rather than diligently manning radio telescopes hundreds of light years away. Inevitably interpreted by some as signaling a conspiratorial inside agenda, SETI's change of perspective is more accurately attributed to recent advances in science and their implications for the human future. While SETI continues to ridicule the UFO phenomenon as evidence of ET visitation, arguments by physicist/ufologist Stanton Friedman, outlined in the new issue of New Frontiers in Science, remain especially topical. Friedman, a long-time critic of SETI's justifications (he's interpreted the acronym as "Silly Effort To Investigate"), has justifiably lambasted the "old school" SETI assumption that extraterrestrial civilizations will necessarily forego interstellar travel because of the daunting requirements of chemical rockets. Indeed, SETI's long-held contention that beings thousands or millions of years more advanced than us would be constrained by Apollo-era technology (already near-obsolete here on Earth) has always seemed something of a convenient anachronism for researchers content to keep the study of ETI comfortably academic. 2. The Postbiological Cosmos Rapid advances in computing, manufacturing and physics (theoretical and otherwise) suggest that intelligent extraterrestrials (assuming they exist), are almost certainly more exotic and technically capable that previously assumed. Scientists such as roboticist Hans Moravec, who predicts that the human species will become effectively obsolete within the next few hundred years, and K. Eric Drexler, whose work with nanotechnology has done nothing less than redefine how futurists view the coming decades, have collectively modeled a future in which artificial intelligence is near-omnipresent ("ubiquitous computing" or "ubicomp") and practical travel between stars is moved out of the arena of wishful thinking and into the realm of the imminently possible. Recent books such as Moravec's "Robot: Mere Machine to Transcendent Mind" and Ray Kurzweil's "The Age of Spiritual Machines" present technologies as optimistic as any dreamed by Arthur C. Clarke--and as potentially hazardous as the dystopian nightmares of neo-Luddite Bill Joy. At the same time, breakthroughs in fields as seemingly arcane as quantum teleportation (and possibly antigravity) reveal a universe alive with untapped potential. If the human species can survive what astronomer Carl Sagan poetically termed our "technological adolescence," predicting the future with any hope of accuracy becomes impossible. In all probability, the minds that will plot our trajectory through the next millennium will be humanity's cybernetic offspring; the role of humans as we know them is quite unguessable (although Moravec argues that we will coexist peacefully with our "mind children," perhaps even merging with them until the distinction between "animate"and "inanimate" is thoroughly dissolved). 3. SETI's Disturbing Double Standard Such speculation fuels SETI's new intellectual renaissance, as addressed by senior researchers Seth Shostak and Jill Tarter (the inspiration for Jodie Foster's character in "Contact"). SETI's reappraisal of the galactic neighborhood is both welcome and long overdue. Rather than reflecting a hidden agenda, SETI's willingness to entertain once-heretical notions indicates the (perhaps grudging) need to acknowledge the changing scientific zeitgeist. However, SETI's implicit rejection of UFOs and evidence for extraterrestrial artifacts on Mars betrays its frailty as a political entity. Ignoring the evidence in Cydonia is ironic, as Carl Sagan's own early calculations suggested that our solar system may have been visited once every 20,000 years. Even if Sagan grossly overestimated, a single visiting ET civilization could have left artifacts within our ability to discover. (This scenario is presented in the Brookings Institute's famous report to NASA, with Mars cited as a candidate for ET intervention.) Interestingly, mainstream SETI astronomers have made no secret of their searches for "Bracewell probes," theoretical automatic devices left by visiting civilizations (much like the "monolith" left buried on the Moon in "2001"). Bracewell probes, in any exist, are thought to occupy orbital Lagrange points, where they can remain stable for millennia. Acting as calling cards, such devices could alert their long-departed creators upon detecting intelligent life; conversely, the probes themselves could establish a dialogue with an emerging technical species. (I personally think that such a "machine intelligence" could be responsible for some UFO encounters. A similar hypothesis has recently been advanced by Richard Dolan, author of "UFOs and the National Security State.") Since SETI is willing to look for ET artifacts in space, why not planetary surfaces? Perhaps if the disconcertingly human-like "Face" hadn't first been discovered and popularized, radio SETI's attitude toward "planetary SETI" (the search for ETI on planetary bodies such as the Moon and Mars) would be different. Cydonia, with its implied "terrestrial connection," has been neatly excluded from mainstream SETI research for no apparent scientific reason (NASA's erroneous "tricks of light" and bungled MOLA data notwithstanding). Merging planetary SETI and mainstream radio SETI promises to advance objective efforts to detect intelligent alien life, even if eventual "contact" is one-way. The hoped-for signal sought by Jill Tarter may not be an electromagnetic emission from some distant sun, but a collection of geometric anomalies on a planet we've already pronounced as "dead." Not long ago, a geologist involved in JPL's robotic exploration of Mars remarked that the proper way to view the fourth planet was to "expect the unexpected." We would be wise to apply this maxim to the ongoing search for extraterrestrial intelligence as well. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: USA TODAY: 'Signs' Makes People Look Into From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:00:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:13:02 -0400 Subject: Re: USA TODAY: 'Signs' Makes People Look Into >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 16:54:41 +0200 >Subject: USA TODAY: 'Signs' Makes People Look Into Crop-Circle Mystery Morning Stig, Errol, All >Sounds like it could be a scene from the movie Signs, which is >gripping the USA this week with crop-circle fever. Sightings are >up. The most recent, in England near Stonehenge, appeared over >the weekend (Hollywood denies responsibility). If you haven't >kept up on the phenomenon, which began in 1980, the movie's >opening dialogue nails the right questions: Are crop circles >real? Who makes them? How? Why? Where do they appear? Speaking as someone who thinks 99.9% of all crop circles are hoax's, I find this statement annoying. > If you haven't >kept up on the phenomenon, which began in 1980, This is simply not true. I spent a considerable amount of time back in 1999/2000 looking into crop circles, nowhere near as much as the croppies (as they call themselves) but still a considerable amount of my time. I discovered that there have been reported crop circles way back in medieval times, "wind devils" and the such where blamed. "Crop circles" have also appeared in snow and sand! Now I do not claim to know what causes the crop circles, but I am pretty confidant that it isn't aliens, but one thing is for sure, crop circles did not start with Doug & Dave and anyone who says that CC's began in 1980 obviously have not done more than thirty minutes of research. If you want an entirely _new_ phenomenon then go looking at the Bermuda Triangle, that is less than fifty years old. Yours Sean Who is decidedly feeling his age this morning
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Anti-Gravity Goes Mainstream (Re-Issue) From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 22:09:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:11:39 -0400 Subject: Anti-Gravity Goes Mainstream (Re-Issue) Re-issue: Boeing denies anti-gravity research, Jane's writer Nick Cook says US government acquired anti-gravity technology from the Nazis. This release updates and corrects an earlier item about anti- gravity research -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : News August 7, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com -------------------------------------------------- ANTI-GRAVITY GOES MAINSTREAM (RE-ISSUE) alternative science *** Boeing investigates anti-gravity theories as independent researchers explore alternative functional prototypes *** photo: Lifter in Flight http://www.electricwarrior.com/img/NaudinLifter.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - According to a prepared statement for Space.com, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer is not, in fact, currently developing anti-gravity technology based on the controversial theories of Evgeny Podkletnov. As reported by this blog, Jane's Defense Weekly quoted a Boeing document stating, "If gravity modification is real, it will alter the entire aerospace business." According to Boeing, the acronym GRASP (Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion) is the name of a presentation on the topic of Podkletnov's theories, not the name of a secretive R&D project, as reported by Jane's "We are aware of Podkletnov's work on 'anti-gravity' devices and would be interested in seeing further development work being done. However, Boeing is not funding any activities in this area at this time," Boeing told Space.com. Boeing's high-level interest means the company was taking a second look at a technology which was rejected as fundamentally flawed when Podkletnov first published his findings in 1992. The skeptical backlash cost him his university job. In 1998 Wired Magazine reported that NASA had taken an interest in Podkletnov's gravity-shielding theories. NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics (BPP) failed to replicate Podkletnov's experiments, but the Russian physicist insisted NASA had failed to faithfully follow his methods. Earlier this year, the Los Angeles Times reported that NASA had ordered a custom built anti-gravity device designed to meet the physicist's exact specifications. Superconductive Components, Inc. (SCI), a company specializing in high-tech materials science, told the Los Angeles Times they were not gravity experts, and simply built the machine to agreed upon specifications. NASA's bleeding-edge scientists spent better than one-half million recession-proof dollars on a box they couldn't guarantee would work, and the LA Times enthusiastically supported it, saying revolutionary spaceships and gravity powered cars were just some of the potential technology spin-offs. Although Big Media have reported NASA's continued interest in the topic, further BPP research is unlikely. Recent budget cuts have apparently eliminated further funding for research involving Podkletnov's gravity shield claim. AEROSPACE WRITER INVESTIGATES ANTI-GRAVITY If you can believe Nick Cook, the US Government has been secretly working on anti-gravity technology for 50 years. In his new book, "The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Anti-Gravity Technology", the aviation-technology journalist tells a story that seems more like science-fiction than pure science. According to Cook, the US Government acquired secret anti- gravity technology from the Nazis at the end of World War II. That technology, built into "black project" aircraft, may account for many of the UFO sightings over the past 50 years. It was Cook, a long-time editor for the esteemed defense industry trade journal Jane's Defense Weekly, who broke the story about Boeings interest in Podkletnov. Do you believe him? According to a book review on Salon.com, this X-Files sort of conspiracy theory won't raise any eyebrows. Nonetheless, Salon goes on to say, "Jane's is the bible of the defense establishment, known for its no-nonsense, nuts-and- bolts reporting. A former Jane's editor tackling this topic is enough to make you take a second look." Salon.com acknowledges that the US military works on secret technology all the time, but says that Cooks conclusions may be too far reaching. His mostly Internet-based research is inconclusive, and some of the information could be misleading government disinformation. ANTI-GRAVITY HACKER'S LOW COST ALTERNATIVE The enthusiastic dedication of an international group of independent researchers has gained world wide attention for the inexplicable hand-made flying triangles they call Lifters. The theory supporting Lifter technology goes by various names, including "Electrogravitics" and the "Biefeld-Brown effect." NASA's BPP criticized the work for being published in "inappropriate venues", saying that their expressed interest in the research had done more harm than good: "Such activities have tainted the overall credibility of BPP research, by association," said a weekly status report from late last May. But the most interesting thing about the balsa-wood and aluminum foil Lifters is that they really do appear to defy gravity. As Tim Ventura of American Antigravity tells it, last year people were asking, "Are the Lifters real?" This year people are asking "How do they work?" The Lifters got their biggest boost from the efforts of Jean- Louis Naudin. JLN Lab's step-by-step online instructions popularized the devices, which seemingly defy conventional explanation. Both Ventura and Naudin document the results of their work with home-made movies that show the triangles leap into the air the instant their high voltage power supplies are switched on. The video clips would be extremely hard to fake. When "The Electric Warrior" talked to Ventura last May, he had just finished construction of the largest Lifter to date. It reportedly flew for seven hours strait. Ventura doesn't claim that Lifter technology involves true anti- gravity, but rather a method of producing a directional thrust. According to Ventura the Lifter's acceleration is too fast for its load. In other words, it somehow counteracts gravity. A few days before the Boeing story broke, a discussion on the Yahoo Lifters news group noted that Russian science seems to have less bias against so-called "new energy technologies", and was probably further along in its understanding of whatever processes were at work. Boeing's interest means that concepts of anti-gravity are getting some mainstream attention. -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES 31-Jul-02 Gravity Shielding Still Science Fiction, Boeing Says http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/gravity_research_020731.html (Space.com) CAPE CANAVERAL - Artificial gravity on spaceships and rockets levitating themselves into orbit will remain the stuff of science fiction for some time to come, despite recent reports in Europe that researchers with U.S. aerospace giant Boeing are working on the concept. 05-Aug-02 The Hunt for Zero Point" by Nick Cook http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/08/05/zero_gravity/print.html (Salon.com) - Although anti-gravity research ranks right up there with perpetual motion on the crank- o-meter, the idea of anti-gravity can't be completely dismissed. As recently as 1996 a Finnish scientist announced he could partially "shield" objects from gravity using spinning superconductors. Although most scientists are skeptical, NASA is interested enough that it's trying to replicate the results. 29-Jul-02 Anti-gravity propulsion comes `out of the closet' http://www.janes.com/aerospace/civil/news/jdw/jdw020729_1_n.shtml (Jane's) LONDON - Boeing, the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, has admitted it is working on experimental anti- gravity projects that could overturn a century of conventional aerospace propulsion technology if the science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware. (By Nick Cook, JDW Aerospace Consultant) http://www.americanantigravity.com (American Antigravity) - Lifter technology is a new type of field-effect propulsion technology that provides thrust without expelling mass. It is based on ion-drive and Biefeld-Brown effect propulsion technology, and uses only electricity to produce thrust. http://jnaudin.free.fr/ (JLN Labs) - You are welcome in the JLN Labs Web site dedicated to the search of Free-Energy solutions and new generation of space-propulsion systems. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR August 7, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- Do you like this article? The URL address for this content is: http://www.electricwarrior.com/news/ewNews0047.htm The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: My Sighting: F-89s Pursue Object - Morton From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:46:26 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:14:37 -0400 Subject: Re: My Sighting: F-89s Pursue Object - Morton Since we're discussing F-16s and F-94s chasing UFOs over Washington DC, I'll post my own somewhat similar sighting from St. Paul, in 1957, if it's of interest to readers. Its significance to me is this: 1. It was chased by military jets, and observed from the ground, just as in the Washington cases of 2002 and 1952. 2. If the jets chasing the object were F-89s (I'm almost certain they were), the object should have appeared on the jets' radar screens. 3. To my knowledge, it has never been reported to the "authorities". 4. To my knowledge, it has never been reported BY the authorities (the Air Force anywhere, Project Blue Book, etc). 5. It was my first sighting of a UFO. ============ Location : St. Paul, Minnesota Year: 1957 Shape : Light/Object Summary: A bright light was apparently chased by several military jets. In the fall of 1957, between mid-September and early October, shortly before the Sputnik satellite went up, I was in front of our house in St. Paul, Minnesota when I heard the roar of F-89s (the only plane based in the area which made that much noise, so I presumed they were probably F-89s). The F-89 was an all-weather, 2-seater, twin engine fighter interceptor based at the main airport, flown by the Air National Guard. With its very loud J-35 jet engines, they never or rarely ever flew at low altitudes over the metro area at high throttle. It wasn't unusual to hear them take off, but it sounded as if the noise was lasting longer than usual this time. It was about 7:00pm, and already dark. I couldn't positively identify the planes, but there was nothing else located there which made that much noise. The Air Force and Navy military areas of the airport also hosted F-80s, T-33s, C-47s, C-119s, Navy Phantoms, P2V Neptune sub hunters, helicopters, and miscellaneous others - none of which made such a horrendous racket. Commercial jets were not yet using the MSP airport except for 1 French twin engine jet (the Caravelle airliner) which came and went, one day during that general era, as part of a sales mission. After hearing the jet noise for an unusally long time, I eventually looked up to see if the planes were visible, and saw a row of red-hot exhaust pipes (or exhaust) and navigation lights all westbound, coming from the east at perhaps 5,000 feet (just a guess). It looked like a string of firey brands travelling in a single file, and, as I recall, there were 6 of them. They were making one heck of a racket, and I took them to be F-89's. Then I noticed a bright light in the sky - much bigger and brighter than Venus, except this light was in the wrong place to be Venus: it was south-southwest from me at an angle of almost 45 degrees, and hanging nearly over the main airport (MSP). At first I thought it must be some kind of expensive, well-done prank involving a lighted balloon. (I knew the Piccard family, at the time (the balloonists), and Don Piccard's name flashed through my mind, for a second, as possibly being connected with this sight. In fact, he _was_ doing some ballooning around that time, I later found out, but in Pennsylvania - not Minnesota.). Then I thought it might be a helicopter with a large, intensely bright light pointed in my direction. As I pondered this situation, I noticed that the jets appeared to be headed straight for the object. The object remained in place as if it had all day to make up its mind if it were going to move or not. Finally, it DID begin to move - slowly at first - away from the jets, towards the southwest. The jets adjusted course to the southwest. Then the object picked up more and more speed, and finally turned off its brilliant white light, and sped away. It was still barely visible for a few moments after it switched off its light, and had a dull, glowing orange appearance, and had some small white lights around the main body. The jets followed in that direction, and eventually disappeared. After a few minutes, all the noise finally stopped. I ran into the house and checked all the TV channels expecting to see a report on the object chased by the F-89s, but there were no reports then or later. Then I finally sat down to read the evening paper. On the front page was a small article which said: "Mystery Object Sighted Over RAF Base. A mystery object was sighted today over one of Britain's RAF bases, but when pursued, it doused its light and sped away." I cut out the article and posted it on the bulletin board in our high school science class, explaining that I might have seen the same object. ============== Submitted for what it's worth. Dave Morton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:03:59 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:18:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:56:09 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:14:47 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:13:42 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case ><snip> Hi Errol, Bob & listee's. >I'm not into Marxist self-examination or Scientological >auditing. Neither am I Bob, but I find sometimes looking inward and even trying to perceive myself as others may see me, helps me become a better person. It also helps me reason my decisions & opinions out, with total honesty! >I am curious, myself, about why you ask? Would you even consider >asking any of the other denizens of the list why they are on it, >or are financial motives or the motives of believers just easier >to understand? Sorry Bob! :( I'm really not singling you out! It was just pertinent to my other queries! I've also asked a prominent researcher on this list some time back, if he made money from his work! I'm just a brash Aussie Bloke sometimes. It's very typically Aussie to be open & forth- right and to question everything. I hope it's not seen as rudeness! The reason you came to mind was because I was searching the archives & your name kept popping up! I realized that you'd been posting for a while now, & I wondered why you continued to hang with all these ufonut's. So I was trying to analyze what motivates skeptics. <snip> >>Could it be possible that we are both abductee's? My >>sub-conscious memories leading me to search for the truth as my >>brain (left side) is quite willing to know, whilst your brain >>(left side) denies the truth (maybe for good reasons) and tries >>to bury the experience deeper in your sub-conscious mind? >Have you ever read Gogol's Lost Souls? No, but I'll look out for it! >When yes means no and no means yes Did I say that? >you got a possible glitch, big time. You may need more >than a self-proclaimed UFO hypnotherapist. If you implying that I'm crazy in the coconut? Anything's possible! :) I had some tests, then some more, a short while back! Everything's cool, physically at least! No, I've never seen a shrink, never had any reason to! Though my sometimes contrarian perspective & openness, could be perceived by some as weird! ><snip> >No they weren't. There were no cameras. Why do you think >that most art was about belief? Most was! But what inspired those beliefs? Eye-witness accounts & the passed-down stories that followed! Even some of the architecture seems saucer-like and occasionally we have what could be eye- witness artworks. Have a look at Matt Hurley's excellent historical UFO's site. >>Just as Scribes were the tape recorders! Do you believe the >>Bible is accurate? >About what? People or animals coming first, or the Flood being >40 days long or was it 1 year long (see Chapters 1 vs. 2 of >Genesis), or all of the life forms in pairs, or is it 7 pairs of >only "clean" animals, all piled into the vessel piloted by a >being called Noah? Well, Genesis is probably not a good example as it was written long after the events and probably does contains some elements of myth. I refer mainly to the angelic visitations of the Prophets etc! BTW, Everyone acknowledges that a flood happened! Even our local indigenous people have a flood story. They say a man called Noaji spoke to the people from an egg in the sky. He told them of a great flood that was coming and called them up to him. The people were too scared, but the animals listened and went up into the sky to him. >Or pi being 3? Hard to build a flying saucer that way, the >middle wouldn't touch the rim. But that never bothers believers. Never heard that one Bob! But I do know the great pyramid was built using Pi & Phi. What's more, it's built on the intersection of the longest ley-lines of the planet and is also magnetically aligned etc. Amazing how much knowledge of the cosmos the ancients had! One wonders whether they did in fact come from the stars as Von Daniken, Sitchen etc believe! >I don't think so. Glad to see that your skepticism is not confined to UFO's, Bob! This is a great site! Please check it out: http://www.bibleufo.com/ This may be true, but what hope do we have of validating our claims, when the extraordinary evidence is withheld by our governments? Regards, Dave Honesty is only another choice to make and the truth will set you free!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Inconstant Speed Of Light May Debunk Einstein From: Steve Wilson Snr. <Ndunlks@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:24:26 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:20:58 -0400 Subject: Inconstant Speed Of Light May Debunk Einstein Inconstant speed of light may debunk Einstein By Michael Christie SYDNEY, Aug 8 (Reuters) - A team of Australian scientists has proposed that the speed of light may not be a constant, a revolutionary idea that could unseat one of the most cherished laws of modern physics -- Einstein's theory of relativity. The team, led by theoretical physicist Paul Davies of Sydney's Macquarie University, say it is possible that the speed of light has slowed over billions of years. If so, physicists will have to rethink many of their basic ideas about the laws of the universe. "That means giving up the theory of relativity and E-mc squared and all that sort of stuff," Davies told Reuters. "But of course it doesn't mean we just throw the books in the bin, because it's in the nature of scientific revolution that the old theories become incorporated in the new ones." Davies, and astrophysicists Tamara Davis and Charles Lineweaver from the University of New South Wales published the proposal in the August 8 edition of scientific journal Nature. The suggestion that the speed of light can change is based on data collected by UNSW astronomer John Webb, who posed a conundrum when he found that light from a distant quasar, a star-like object, had absorbed the wrong type of photons from interstellar clouds on its 12 billion year journey to earth. Davies said fundamentally Webb's observations meant that the structure of atoms emitting quasar light was slightly but ever so significantly different to the structure of atoms in humans. The discrepancy could only be explained if either the electron charge, or the speed of light, had changed. IN TROUBLE EITHER WAY "But two of the cherished laws of the universe are the law that electron charge shall not change and that the speed of light shall not change, so whichever way you look at it we're in trouble," Davies said. To establish which of the two constants might not be that constant after all, Davies' team resorted to the study of black holes, mysterious astronomical bodies that suck in stars and other galactic features. They also applied another dogma of physics, the second law of of thermodynamics, which Davies summarises as "you can't get something for nothing." After considering that a change in the electron charge over time would violate the sacrosanct second law of thermodynamics, they concluded that the only option was to challenge the constancy of the speed of light. More study of quasar light is needed in order to validate Webb's observations, and to back up the proposal that light speed may vary, a theory Davies stresses represents only the first chink in the armour of the theory of relativity. In the meantime, the implications are as unclear as the unexplored depths of the universe themselves. "When one of the cornerstones of physics collapses, it's not obvious what you hang onto and what you discard," Davies said. "If what we're seeing is the beginnings of a paradigm shift in physics like what happened 100 years ago with the theory of relativity and quantum theory, it is very hard to know what sort of reasoning to bring to bear." It could be that the possible change in light speed will only matter in the study of the large scale structure of the universe, its origins and evolution. For example, varying light speed could explain why two distant and causally unconnected parts of the universe can be so similar even if, according to conventional thought, there has not been enough time for light or other forces to pass between them. It may only matter when scientists are studying effects over billions of years or billions of light years. Or there may be startling implications that could change not only the way cosmologists view the universe but also its potential for human exploitation. "For example there's a cherished law that says nothing can go faster than light and that follows from the theory of relativity," Davies said. The accepted speed of light is 300,000 km (186,300 miles) per second. "Maybe it's possible to get around that restriction, in which case it would enthrall Star Trek fans because at the moment even at the speed of light it would take 100,000 years to cross the galaxy. It's a bit of a bore really and if the speed of light limit could go, then who knows? All bets are off," Davies said. 08/07/02 14:02 ET Copyright 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Is It A Bird UFO Or Uncle Sam? From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 08:55:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:23:11 -0400 Subject: Is It A Bird UFO Or Uncle Sam? Hello All, Regards, Frank Warren --- Source: The Straits Times - Singapore http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/cybernews/story/0,1870,136273,00.html? Is it a bird, UFO or just Uncle Sam? Mystery shapes believed to be US military testing low altitude plane for massive military cargoes. THE test flight of a secret military aircraft in the United States has been making news for all the wrong reasons. Thousands of people who had spotted it darting across the sky for the past few years had mistaken it to be an alien craft or an unidentified flying object (UFO). However, researchers from the National Institute for Discovery Science (Nids) in Las Vegas, Nevada, believe that the dark, triangular object is a new lighter-than-air, blimp-style craft of the US military's making. Estimated to be 200 m long and 100 m wide, with a height of 12 m, the Black Triangle could weigh as much as 100 tonnes, astronomy website SPACE.com reported. While the US military does not comment on its secret projects, Nids researchers said such vehicles could be used to carry massive payloads at low altitudes, cruising at speeds three to five times as fast as surface ships. The craft, which uses electrokinetic propulsion or airborne nuclear-power energy, can also fly at extreme altitudes, high above conventional aircraft and the pulsing of ground-based traffic-control radar. 'What we're trying to do is transform unidentified flying objects, UFOs, into IFOs, or identified flying objects,' said Nids deputy administrator Colm Kelleher. 'We want to limit the number of cases that are unidentified in our data base. The more that are identified, obviously the less we have to work on. That's our prime motivation - to eliminate the wheat from the chaff,' Mr Kelleher told SPACE.com. He noted that the US military may well be ready to take the wraps off the Black Triangle craft. The US airlift fleet is getting old and has taken a great beating in the past 10 years in battles such as those in Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan. Some new aircraft are making it into the inventory, but they still have limits. For instance, to move loads of tanks and other gear requires many flights and a lot of support. Therefore, a stealth airship that could carry a large number of tanks, troops and supplies into a region overnight is seen as an ideal choice for future warfare. So far, Nids believes that the Black Triangles, normally spotted as accelerating very rapidly from a hovering position, have been mistaken as UFOs at least 200 times in the past two years.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 Now 10 Witnesses To The Houston/Telkwa BC Sighting From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:11:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:25:22 -0400 Subject: Now 10 Witnesses To The Houston/Telkwa BC Sighting Hi List, Man this is some weird stuff, I am up to 10 people now who have witnessed the object between Houston and Smithers. Telkwa/Quick right in the middle. Now I am going to visit with these folks as well. They saw the same object, huge in size, same color, but the difference is they watch the object move at an incredible speed and did a couple of "loops" over the Smithers area, then back down the valley. From the call I had last night, this does make sense as I was wondering after the call why the object changed direction. So this phone this morning was very important. Lots to do, and not enough hands. Will keep you posted as news rolls in. Take care Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 8 F-16 Scramble - Chat With WTOP Reporters From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 04:43:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:27:51 -0400 Subject: F-16 Scramble - Chat With WTOP Reporters Questions to WTOP Reporters Early this morning around 2:35 a.m. I called WTOP radio station at 1-877-628 WTOP and spoke with news reporter Mitchell Miller in the newsroom. Miller was fortunate to have been 'on duty' during the July 26th incident in Waldorf, Maryland and said he had taken calls from people in the area who were 'concerned about a strange object.' Miller was very animated when telling of two callers he spoke with directly about the event. "I personally talked with two of the people, "Miller said, "and when talking with one person I could hear the jets roaring in the background, through the phone." Miller said that the Waldorf citizens began calling the radio station about 1:00 a.m. Mitchell Miller said that later that morning around 8:30 a.m., he had assigned one of his reporters to call Andrews Air Force Base to inquire about the jet activity from several hours earlier. "I had one of my reporters call Andrews and sure enough they confirmed that some of their jets had been scrambled," Miller said. "Basically they said they were scrambled but I don't recall if they said why or the specific term they used." Miller then suggested that I call later to talk with Amy Morris, as she was the reporter assigned to call Andrews AFB at 8:30 a.m. Mitchell Miller is unaware of the set of circumstances or timing surrounding the NORAD acknowledgment of a mysterious radar track prompting the scramble, but thinks that other news organizations responded to their radio broadcast and had independently contacted NORAD for comment. "I could imagine that other news organizations followed up on the story," Miller said. "That sounds more likely from my perspective of how we covered the story." I then called WTOP radio station back about 3:50 a.m. and spoke with Amy Morris. Amy clarified an important detail to the story, namely that WTOP radio does not take live calls on their radio program. Amy said that WTOP almost 'never' takes live calls, but that people from Waldorf, Maryland had called the radio station and reported the event to the station's news editor. The WTOP reporters simply took their names and phone numbers. It was not until the morning crew came to the station that the callers were contacted after 8:30 a.m. on July 26 and had their telephone statements recorded by WTOP engineers. Amy said that there was two people that contacted the station, Renny Rogers being the second person. She said that she had the name of the first person in her notes, but she would not share her private notes. "The calls came in to our editors desk about 1 or 2 a.m. but the story actually aired later that afternoon," she said. Amy confirmed that around 8:30 a.m. on July 26 she had contacted Andrews Air Force Base. "I wanted to inquire if they knew of any incidents taking place overnight," she said, "so they called back and instructed me to talk to the Air National Guard." Amy Morris said she then called the Air National Guard and felt they were very forthcoming. "The ANG said they scrambled the 113th fighter unit out overnight but there was no intercept and they didn't see anything unusual," Amy said. Amy felt that the Air National Guard had contacted Andrews Air Force Base to get a confirmation 'backup' regarding the radar track. It was her presumption that Andrews AFB was tracking the radar target. She also said that WTOP radio and Andrews AFB has a good relationship and mutual trust after the events of 9-1-1. "Andrews simply referred my call to the ANG and said that they had scrambled on it," she said. "That's no big surprise," Amy said, "because when F-16s are out flying around Washington D.C. everyone pretty much knows it." Amy Morris then informed that about 5-minutes later she called NORAD for additional confirmation. She said the people at NORAD didn't seem to know too much about the event because the night shift had left and the morning shift had just came on were not fully up to speed on the situation. She said that NORAD simply confirmed that they saw something on radar during the overnight shift. When asked if there are audio tapes of the overnight radio program or next days newscast, she said that there is a service which records the station 24-hours a day and transcripts or tapes can be acquired through this agency. She said to call Video Monitoring Services at 202-393-7110. Amy was also asked if she plans to pursue this event any further and she said: "We tend to follow things as new stuff crops up," and also said various stories are shifted between reporters. COMMENTS; A number of issues become apparent after the WTOP reporters offered some clarification to the July 26th incident. First, my perception that this was a live radio broadcast taking live local callers was totally wrong. It sounds as if WTOP only spoke with TWO people from Waldorf, Maryland, and that the information these two individuals sought to relate were not publicized until the following afternoon. This means that there was no flurry of phone calls to WTOP and that there was no live radio program reporting on the event as it was taking place. Second, it appears that official comment came first from Andrews AFB which confirmed ANG jets had apparently scrambled during the overnight hours. It appears that Andrews AFB may have been tracking the radar target, according to the suspicions of Amy Morris. Secondly, confirmation of the event came from the 113th ANG headquarters followed by a third (but not fully up to speed) confirmation from the incoming morning shift at NORAD. It also appears that the time frame of incident vs. first official comment may have been around seven hours. Filed, August 8, 2002 KENNY YOUNG -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Mallorca: Undersea UFO Base Blamed For From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 22:42:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:27:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Mallorca: Undersea UFO Base Blamed For >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 19:41:19 +0200 >Subject: Mallorca: Undersea UFO Base Blamed For Mysterious Noises >Undersea noises mystify Mallorcans <snip> >Saucer buff Mat]as Morey said that long before the noises were >detected, several "experts" had demonstrated grounds for >concluding that an undersea UFO base existed some 1,000 to 1,500 >yards offshore between Punta Cala Roja y Es Morro de sa Vaca. My good friend Matias Morey has asked me to post the following text on his behalf. Luis R. Gonz=E1lez Manso "In reference to the alleged undersea noises heard near the waters off Mallorca's northern coast, Matias Morey wishes to explain the following: 1) The text in English about the EFE press release is very much exaggerated in comparison with the Spanish version published in the local newspapers. 2) Matias Morey, member of the patronage of the Anomaly Foundation http://www.anomalia.org, explained to the reporter that, during the Seventies, a group of UFO contactees living in Mallorca (_no_ UFO experts) had made public their experiences, contacting with UFOs emerging from an undersea UFO base located off the town of Soller. Nothing more than their testimony support this hypothesis. 3) It is false that Mallorca's northern coast has been the site of repeated UFO sightings, because all along the 20th century, there were only about 215 cases all over the island, and only 40% of them can be located in that area. 4) It is not sensible to establish a relationship between those undersea noises and an alleged ET activity under the sea. The only thing which relates both is the existence of those contactee beliefs, now absolutely discredited. 5) The phenomenon of those strange undersea noises has been perceived by very few persons and it has _not_ risen any alarm. Probably it would be derived from some trivial causes which will be discovered through the investigations now proceeding by the Balearic Oceanographic Center. Mat=EDas Morey <webmaster@anomalia.org>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 21:41:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:29:33 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:02:09 -0600 >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>There is no place for you or CSICOP among the honest seekers of >>knowledge or truth, both in legitimate science and legitimate >>research into the paranormal. The world no longer needs your >>kind. It hasn't for a long, long time. Self-deception is your >>Epitaph. CSICOP, your Momument of Shame. >Come on, Wendy, lighten up on the guy. You're painting him like >the Osama bin Laden of Ufology. All he is is wrong! >And I happen to think CSICOP's principles - _when_ they stick to >them - are legitimate goals. There _is_ a serious lack of a >foundation of scientific knowledge among Americans, and much of >what's out there is superstition masquerading as science. We _do_ >need CSICOP - or at least some form of organized skepticism. >It's the tail on our kite, that keeps us from flying off out of >control in all directions. Their problem is they try to weight >the kite down so much that it won't fly at all. >But all in all, they are a necessary part of the point- >counterpoint that assures that we really _know_ what we know, >because it's been subjected to rigorous review. They have >largely succeeded in the areas of psychic phenomena, medical >frauds, and faith-healing. They've tried their best with UFOs, >and simply failed. >We are more secure in our knowledge of the subject for their >having tried. >==JJS== Jim, CSICOP has principles? Or are CSICOP principles like business ethics, an oxymoron? You have been away for a while! CSICOP has an agenda (not involving investigation or research) to save the world from "nuts" like you, me, and Wendy. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Another Smithers B.C. Sighting From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:40:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:31:40 -0400 Subject: Another Smithers B.C. Sighting Hi List Smithers B.C. Sighting Getting tried of this yet ? -:))) Well I just talked with a newspaper reporter who received another totally separate sighting for the end of July. I have the witnesses name and have already phoned him and left a message on his answering machine. Hope to be able to also interview him, plus get a diagram of what he saw. Honestly I have no time to write all is stuff up. I have lots of papers with notes and other information laying here, and before I can get working on it something else comes along. Also when talking with the reporter, they are running another story on what took place in Houston/Telkwa and Smithers. Oh well, keeps me honest and young, for an old guy. Will keep you posted as to what comes next. Heading off on the 2:35 a.m. bus for Quesnel tonight. After an 8 hour journey getting to Quesnel, I will jump into my truck and drive straight back home, then off to interview the folks on the weekend. Nice to get the old truck back. Take care Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:01:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:35:31 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Come on, Wendy, lighten up on the guy. You're painting him like >the Osama bin Laden of Ufology. All he is is wrong! Klass has (in the past) been allowed to make statements of fact when he has apparently performed little or no research into the incident. The press has often viewed those statements as the "official" skeptical view, and dropped further interest. Klass isn't evil, but he hasn't helped the search for truth in many cases. >And I happen to think CSICOP's principles - _when_ they stick to >them - are legitimate goals. There _is_ a serious lack of a >foundation of scientific knowledge among Americans, and much of >what's out there is superstition masquerading as science. We _do_ >need CSICOP - or at least some form of organized skepticism. We can't really get into this here, but how do you define "scientific knowledge"? This sounds a lot like Carl Sagan's fear that the astrologers, fortune tellers and palm readers are going to win, and I didn't know this was a contest. Certainly we need to have a skeptical viewpoint when dealing with phenomena that we cannot easily identify, but we don't need to have a dogmatic skeptical viewpoint. >It's the tail on our kite, that keeps us from flying off out of >control in all directions. Their problem is they try to weight >the kite down so much that it won't fly at all. We certainly agree on this point. It's been said that while we want to have an open mind, we don't want our brains to fall out (or some such paraphrase). I agree that we need to have a skeptical viewpoint to help keep us focused on a scientific pursuit. We just don't need to have demeaning generic responses. >But all in all, they are a necessary part of the point- >counterpoint that assures that we really _know_ what we know, >because it's been subjected to rigorous review. They have >largely succeeded in the areas of psychic phenomena, medical >frauds, and faith-healing. They've tried their best with UFOs, >and simply failed. Actually, I think they've succeeded to a great degree. But the UFO genre seems to be more visible and vocal, so we just won't go away..... <g> IMO, the genre won't gain credibility among traditional scientists until it 1 - Defines the discipline under study 2 - Establishes rules of evidence as they pertain to that discipline 3 - Establishes a peer review process in the publication of Journal These have all be discussed over the years on this List, and the debate continues. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Reviews 'Signs' & 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:40:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:39:07 -0400 Subject: Reviews 'Signs' & 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' Dear friends, I've been often asked for my opinion about the movie 'Signs'. Although we are not movie experts, it seemed like a great movie, with an interesting story and an excellent cast and production. The movie is based on the mysterious crop circle formations in England, but it takes place across the Atlantic, in Pennsylvania. Although the Hollywood production attributes the crop circles to evil ETs and UFOs, it attempts to send a message about family unity, and how it helps to cope with difficult situations. The movie 'Signs' is a fictional drama, but it's based on a real and ongoing events. In fact, the phenomena that inspired the producers of the movie - the crop circle formations - are so intriguing, the premier was an extraordinary success. We were invited to attend the premier at the Dolphin Mall Cinemas last Friday. We could easily notice about 4 long lines of people waiting to buy tickets for it. Our table in the lobby was always full of interested people requesting information about these phenomena and about our research organization - the Miami UFO Center. The amount of people that went to see the movie was enormous. All of the four theaters exhibiting the movie were full throughout the weekend. But more impressively, we found out that people were not just interested in Mel Gibson; a great number of them claimed that they were more interested in the crop circle phenomena. Overall, the movie was great. I personally give it 4 =BD out of 5 stars. Don't be surprised if it receives a couple of Oscar nominations. Don't miss it! On a similar note, last weekend, I had the opportunity to watch the History Channel documentary 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' on television. It was hosted by Josh Binswanger. The documentary was filmed in England, and it compared the movie 'Signs' with actual crop circle phenomena. It included short clips from the movie, interviews with actors Mel Gibson, Joaquin Phoenix, and producer M. Night Shyamalan, as well as interviews with actual eyewitnesses and researchers. Moreover, the documentary included interviews with hoaxers (people that create crop circles to mis-lead believers), journalists and researchers. These hoaxers created a small circle with a letter H, symbolizing the History channel logo at the end of the documentary. They completed the circle in about 4 hours. Considering how small the circle was, one can only wonder: How is it possible to create those gigantic crop circle formations in less that one night? Attempting to explain how crop circles are created, the documentary included diverse theories, such as microwave radiation, plasma vortexes, human telekinesis, magnetic fields, underground water currents, extraterrestrial, etc. Nevertheless, none of these theories have been scientifically proven to be the cause of these phenomena. at least not yet. Without a doubt, the crop circle phenomenon will be one of the most discussed topics for this summer. England should see an increase in tourism due to the many crop circle believers, as well as the many others that are now being introduced to this phenomena. Sincerely, Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 23:10:15 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:41:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:03:59 +1000 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:56:09 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case <snip> <snip> >Sorry Bob! :( I'm really not singling you out! It was just >pertinent to my other queries! I've also asked a prominent >researcher on this list some time back, if he made money from >his work! I'm just a brash Aussie Bloke sometimes. It's very >typically Aussie to be open & forth- right and to question >everything. I hope it's not seen as rudeness! It's a thoughtfull question, but like anything else, it's probably more important what one does with their interest. As I said, there is some economic interest just about anywhere. Even a reporter, for example, is trying to fill the day's quota of copy in order to keep getting a paycheck. This doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't a legitimate newsperson. Same with research. Popular books may be good, bad or otherwise, and even the printer has made a buck, but if it isn't peer research in a scientific context it shouldn't be considered as important. >The reason you came to mind was because I was searching the >archives & your name kept popping up! I realized that you'd been >posting for a while now, & I wondered why you continued to hang >with all these ufonut's. So I was trying to analyze what >motivates skeptics. In my case, I'm a nearly life-long amatuer astronomer and have worked at a planetarium. I'm interested in IFOs and how they got there. <snip> >>>Could it be possible that we are both abductee's? My >>>sub-conscious memories leading me to search for the truth as my >>>brain (left side) is quite willing to know, whilst your brain >>>(left side) denies the truth (maybe for good reasons) and tries >>>to bury the experience deeper in your sub-conscious mind? My point being that the Abduction Myth mus have reached a a crazy state when proponents suggest that anybody who doubts its reality must be a secret abductee. This seems to lead nowhere except for believers. <snip> > Most was! But what inspired those beliefs? Eye-witness accounts >& the passed-down stories that followed! Even some of the >architecture seems saucer-like and occasionally we have what >could be eye- witness artworks. Have a look at Matt Hurley's >excellent historical UFO's site. I've seen this interesting site. The problem is he's working backwards throughout all of human (art) history to find anything that fits his obsession. Just because something is round, or flat or starlike doesn't mean that it's a late 20th Century flying saucer. <snip> >Well, Genesis is probably not a good example as it was written >long after the events and probably does contains some elements >of myth. I refer mainly to the angelic visitations of the >Prophets etc! Most religions seem to have had visions. People who had no idea what a mirage was, or a meteor, or a rainbow had to describe them somehow. Of course, maybe I'm making your argument, but when it comes to many of those visions there are prosaic things that could explain them, but we'll never know at this late date. There's no reason to think that our current fascination with spacemen is there. Unless one is like Hurley looking for proof of a current fad in old mystical writings. Pretty much a waste of time. >BTW, Everyone acknowledges that a flood happened! This is not correct. Could you name, oh, two or three thousand geologists who think that a world-wide flood happened as described in Genesis? (Don't forget, you said "everyone".) You might find a handful, most part of the religious anti-evolution movement. >Even our local indigenous people have a flood story. They say >a man called Noaji spoke to the people from an egg in the sky. >He told them of a great flood that was coming and called them >up to him. The people were too scared, but the animals listened >and went up into the sky to him. Doesn't sound much like Noah's flood and boat to me, somebody's stretching that one to match. >>Or pi being 3? Hard to build a flying saucer that way, the >>middle wouldn't touch the rim. But that never bothers believers. >Never heard that one Bob! Yeah, its the one with the circle of a diameter of 10 cubits and a circumferance of 30. Pi is actually 3.14159, etc. I once made the point to a helicopter pilot friend of mine that if one tried to build a chopper to the specifications of that circle, as provided in the Bible, the blades wouldn't be connected to the shaft. There's a lot of room for prosaic explanations of visions in the sky with descriptions like that. >But I do know the great pyramid was built using Pi & Phi. <snip> >Amazing how much knowledge of the cosmos the ancients >had! They watched the skies. But, the knowledge of the cosmos didn't come easily, but by little increments over thousands of years. >One wonders whether they did in fact come from the stars >as Von Daniken, Sitchen etc believe! And every religious mystic who ever lived. >This may be true, but what hope do we have of validating our >claims, when the extraordinary evidence is withheld by our >governments? This is similar to the suggestion that if I am a skeptic, it must be proof that I have been abducted, too. Unproveable, and also undisproveable, thus a useless hypothesis as far as science is concerned. Clear skies, Bob Young "No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind that its falseness would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish." -- David Hume
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 00:44:50 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:43:42 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates >Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:02:09 -0600 >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Phil Klass <PhilKlass@aol.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 11:35:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Klass <snip> >There are intelligent people in the world, Mr. Klass. Your >myopic sense of CSICOPian reality is long past and your banners >lay in tatters, strewn along the gutter of the CSICOP cultist >dream. You're irrelevant to real science, Mr. Klass. You always >were. Your legacy consists only of championing the mundane and >mediocre, leaving a trail of dispicable methodologies and bogus >science. >Your own fanaticism and that of your beloved CSICOP was your >undoing from the very beginning. You cheated people out of their >self-respect, Mr. Klass. You did so by falsely claiming your >scientific acumen, which was as bogus as your sense of reality. >You were a champion only to yourself and not humanities search >for truth. You showed your disgust of humanity and the honest >quest for knowledge by dishonest research and conclusions. You >and CSICOP are the real charltans and hoaxers of science and are >indeed, very paranormal... living out of the range of >rationality, logic and common sense. Do I not recall quotes from a couple of the founders of CSICOP that in effect CSICOP was not really interested in science and not really interested in the truth? Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Hopkinsville 'Goblins' & 'Signs' From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:55:57 -0400 Subject: Hopkinsville 'Goblins' & 'Signs' I thought the portaral of the aliens in 'Signs' (and no, I'm not giving anything away here) were similar to the Hopkinsville 'goblins'. Has anyone else noticed this? ===== Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies http://mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Australian National UFO Conference Summery & From: Diane Harrison <auforn@hypermax.net.au> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 15:00:25 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:57:36 -0400 Subject: Australian National UFO Conference Summery & Hi Everyone Sorry I haven't posted the OZ files this month its been a little quite. But in the interim of UFOs not visiting us, we earthlings have been busy attending Conferences. For those who could not get to the Australian Conference there's a visual tour on AUFORNs New Web site and if you haven't updated to our new link, now is the time, the old webpage will be closing down. Enjoy The Australian National UFO Conference 2002 held in Sydney viewed at http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn -- Regards Diane Harrison National Director The Australian UFO Research Network and UFO Hotline. Australian Skywatch Director Tel number 1800 77 22 88 a Free Call Australian UFO Research Network - http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn E-mail auforn@hypermax.net.au A non profit organisation PO Box 738 Beaudessert 4285 QLD Australia Tel 07 55 44 6888
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:00:41 -0400 Subject: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants Hi All, Bit of a rant here, if you please. I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former (post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years ago. The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about 20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially advertised) is something that requires some of our collective (public) attention. How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. Both Lier and Sims both promised to publish any analysis results in peer review journals when they were attempting to justify the unusual elective surgical procedures. Never happened. Nothing has ever been published in any medical or scientific journals that I know of. Oh sorry, Dr. Lier wrote and marketed a book about it. And... oh yeah, he's been busy making the rounds of the UFO lecture circuit and mass media for the last five years. I can say that much for his 'accomplishments.' But... what benefit has there been for the abductees? How much more do we know now, 20+ surgeries later, than we knew five years ago? Bupkis! Has ufology, science or mankind been served in any way by the real sacrifices made by some very brave individuals? Has a dialog or further investigation been the result of any 'published' analytical findings? Nope. Nada, none, zippo, zero. So: Once again I ask... "How many _more_ have to undergo invasive surgery before enough becomes enough?" These are after all, human beings we're discussing, not cattle. Does it bother anybody else? We desperately need some kind of peer review and oversight committee in ufology. (As a burgeoning science that it is.) An ethics committee at the very least is needed immediately. For witness protection if nothing else. Someone to look into this kind of 'human experimentation' and to raise a red flag high (publicly) when something like this surgical 'implant recovery 'business' is in the proposal stages. And don't kid yourself, there _is_ a very real 'business' aspect to it all. If you don't think that $ changed hands in order to insure that Bigelow's NIDS got first crack at any recovered items, then you're too naive to live. Bottom line: Two or three of these 'things' would have been enough to tell us something new. To provide some new insights or badly needed information about this already murky subject. 20+? Madness! And last but not least; the people. Let's not forget the abductees who are being cut one after another after another. How many more? And for what? Grist for the mill I suppose. John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: My Sighting: F-89s Pursue Object - Heath From: Gord Heath <gwheath@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 00:51:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:04:57 -0400 Subject: Re: My Sighting: F-89s Pursue Object - Heath >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:46:26 EDT >Subject: My Sighting: F-89s Pursue Object >Since we're discussing F-16s and F-94s chasing UFOs over >Washington DC, I'll post my own somewhat similar sighting from >St. Paul, in 1957, if it's of interest to readers. <snip> An interesting sighting Dave. I've read that many Air Force sighting reports and chase incidents from this period never made it into the Project Blue Book files. Presumeably, these missing reports must have been collected as part of a separate research project. I can't believe that the Air Force would simply dump its best sightings into the garbage. I thought that the following two articles from the Capital Times, a Madison, Wisconsin newspaper in late July 1952 would be of similar interest. One is a report of a UFO chasing a B-52 bomber (a new aircraft at that time), near Green Bay. The other is an column written about Air Force studies of flying saucers. I find it interesting to read articles from back in the time when the press felt they had the freedom to report on these issues to the public. Gord Heath, UFOBC Newspaper Articles follow: Note: I'm not sure if "Green Bay Air Filter Center" should be "Green Bay Air Filght Center". I'm fairly certain that Wright Field was told to "find out whether flight behavior is similar" not "find out whether light behavior is similar" in second article. ..... Capital Times, Madison Wisconsin, July 31, 1952 2 Badgers Report Jet 'Chasing Discs' Green Bay (AP) - Two veteran aircraft spotters told the Green Bay Air Filter Center Wednesday that two silvery objects like upside down bowler hats had streaked across the sky, apparently being chased by a jet plane. William Vickery and Harvey Rehn were working on a mink farm near Suamico their home town, when a B-25 bomber attracted their attention. After the bomber came the silvery objects, they told the center. The "Hats" moved at terrific speed, then slowed up until the jet plane almost reached them, then rushed away again. Within a minute after the objects vanished into the northeast, they appeared again from the east and short overhead, disappearing into the west. Rehn and Vickery said they agreed not to describe their impressions until they had drawn sketches. Afterward, they said, they compared the sketches and found them almost identical. ----- Capital Times, Madison Wisconsin, July 29, 1952 Washington Merry-Go-Round Air Force Studies Flying Saucers By Drew Pearson Washington - While the politicians have been watching the none-too-mysterious conventions, some other people, including the Air Force, have been watching a mysterious rash of flying saucers. Furthermore, the Air Force, long skeptical about flying saucers has now made some official and important admissions. ADMISSION NO. 1 - is that they have now detected something that looks like flying saucers on radar at the same time that people have claimed they saw flying saucers. In other words flying saucers are not just cloud freaks or hallucinations. If so they could not be detected on a radar screen. ADMISSION NO. 2 is that flying saucers could possibly be space ships from another planet. The reason for this admission is that it will soon be possible for us to build a space ship to visit the moon if we are willing to spend the money for research and construction. Our current research into atomic power and supersonic speeds already has progressed so far that it is definitely known such a ship can be built, but the big expense would come from creating atmosphere inside the ship to support human life while traveling from one planet to another. ADMISSION NO. 3 - It has been announced, but scientific observation posts have been set up in New Mexico, where we are testing guided missiles, to track flying saucers also. A number of flying saucers have been seen in the Southwest, and since trained specialists are already on the job in that area with the latest scientific gadgets, the Air Force has ordered them to watch for flying saucers and track them scientifically. In addition, the Air Force has instructed its 24 hour air observers to watch not only for enemy planes but flying saucers. Furthermore it has set up special cameras on its radar screens to keep a pictorial record of flying saucers or any other strange objects flitting across the screens. Finally Wright Field, at Dayton, O., the center of all air force research, has been instructed to chart all flying saucer patterns, find out whether their light behavior is similar, and what characteristics they seem to have in common. This started only two months ago and no similar patterns have yet been reported except for the peculiar fact that more flying saucers have been observed around U.S. atomic centers and around Wright Field than anywhere else. This could be because observers from another planet were interested in our atomic and air development, though the air force thinks its more likely to be because the population around these bases is more sensitive to something strange in the skies. However while air force officials are taking every precaution to solve the mystery they also warn that the first flying saucers was seen by the prophet Ezekiel who reported seeing a flying wheel in the heavens. The air force has tracked down thousands of fantastic reports from that of George Koehler of Denver, who reported blond beardless three-foot men from Venus, to the movies taken by Nick Mariana of Great Falls, Mont. The beardless men turned out to be a hoax, and the movies turned out to be pictures of two high flying jet fighters. So while the Air Force is doing everything possible to solve the mystery, it still has its collective fingers crossed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 UFO Radio From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:10:23 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:06:50 -0400 Subject: UFO Radio Forwarded from 'alt.paranet.ufo'. Stig *** From: theteam@uforadio.co.uk (Heidi) Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo Subject: UFO radio Date: 8 Aug 2002 09:58:02 -0700 UFO Radio is due to start transmission later this year, we are looking for ufologists, groups, other web-sites, organisations, etc. world wide who want to contibute, make programs. suggest items, etc. UFO Radio is the worlds first internet radio station dedicated to the UFO subject which will be transmitting to all ufologists worldwide. Please take a look at our site which will give you more information about what we hope to achieve and how you can join in. www.uforadio.co.uk Heidi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Green Aliens In Greece? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:21:08 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:07:46 -0400 Subject: Green Aliens In Greece? Source: Pravda, August 9, 2002, http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/08/09/34128_.html Stig *** 2002.08.09/12:32 GREEN ALIENS ARE IN GREECE! They land on farmers' fields! ** Aliens reached Greece. A local peasant found an UFO on his field. All local residents confirmed his words. As the residents of the village of Prini say, the owner of the field saw a strange circle that was ten meters in diameter, which landed on the field, having left the cavities 20 cm deep. Another local resident said that he saw the landing of a strange object as well. The children of the village said that they saw the sky glistening above the village, when the object was landing. The news about a strange circle made a half of Prini=92s residents come into the field, and the whole neighborhood was talking about aliens the next day. People started saying that they saw such things before, so there was nothing new for them. The strangest thing here, however, is the fact that nothing has been reported about it before. Why such a commotion now? Is it a way for the local government to attract tourists? Probably, yes. Circles on the field is not groundbreaking news. Mysterious circles started appearing on the fields of English farmers some ten or fifteen years ago. Everybody was saying that aliens did that. However, as it became known afterwards, it was all about two local jokers. Maybe someone is joking in Greece too? Vasily Bubnov PRAVDA.Ru Translated by Dmitry Sudakov Related links: PRAVDA.Ru The Tunguska meteorite mystery is still unveiled ABCNews.com : High-Tech Setup to Search for Alien Life National Geographic : Crop Circles: Artworks or Alien Signs? Read the original in Russian: http://www.pravda.ru/main/2002/08/09/45426.html =A91999 "Pravda.RU". When reproducing our materials in whole or in part, reference to Pravda.RU should be made.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 UFOs Sighted In Baku Azerbaijan From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:36:00 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:09:33 -0400 Subject: UFOs Sighted In Baku Azerbaijan Source: Baku Sun, Azerbaijan, August 9, 2002 http://www.bakusun.az/cgi-bin/ayten/bakusun/show.cgi?code=2922 Stig *** LOCAL ROUNDUP <snip> UFOs sighted The opposition daily Yeni Musavat reported that unidentified flying objects had been sighted in Baku's Bayil District Aug. 1- 2. Fuad Gasimov, head of the National Aerospace Agency's seismology department, told the Olaylar news agency that the reason for the frequent sightings was that the UFOs have bases nearby deep under the Caspian. Two of the alien bases are reportedly situated in the north part of the Absheron peninsula and one in the north sector of the Caspian Sea. <snip> Programming by Ayten Alizadeh. Copyight by IntraNS. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: High-Tech Setup to Search for Alien Life From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:48:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:11:14 -0400 Subject: Re: High-Tech Setup to Search for Alien Life Source: ABC News http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/TechTV/techtv_SETIarray020802.html Stig *** Stepping Up the Search for E.T. SETI Institute Gets High-Powered Help to Find Alien Life By Tracey Marx, Tech Live Aug. 2 ** =97 Is there life out there in the far reaches of the galaxy? That question has been fodder for a lot of movies and novels - and driving astronomers, such as those with the Search for Extraterrestial Intelligence (SETI) Institute, to search the heavens for answers. "The answer could be we are alone," said Jill Tarter, director of the Center for SETI Research. "The answer could be we are one of many in the cosmos. Either way the answer is incredibly profound and important." And she's already planned for the moment when SETI detects a signal. "I have a bottle of champagne on ice," she said. One of Tarter's partners in the search is her husband, Jack Welch, a professor of astronomy and electrical engineering at the University of California at Berkeley. "So far we've got no signal, so what does that imply? Well, it implies that it's not easy," Welch said. "It implies that there aren't lots of people transmitting from all the stars out there." Tarter and Welch study radio frequencies or scan the skies looking for extraterrestrial signals, but they have to share time at observatories such as Arecibo in Puerto Rico to conduct their search. "I'm at the telescope only 5 percent of the time," Tarter said. "Even though it's the world's largest telescope and that's great, what about the other 95 percent?" All SETI, All the Time SETI and the University of California at Berkeley decided they needed their own instrument, so they started developing the Allen Telescope Array. The team started with a seven-dish test site in the hills east of Berkeley. The prototype setup let researchers plan for the final array and hammer out software. SETI is now ready for the next step - 350 dishes planted across a two-acre site near Mount Lassen in Northeastern California. Tarter says the first three dishes were installed in the past month. The dishes were designed to cut down on interference caused by everyday gadgets such as cellphones and even by heat from the ground. "The ones for the Allen Array actually have two mirrors," Welch explained. "They have a secondary mirror and this enables them to pick up less noise from the ground and less interference." The Allen Telescope Array - named for Microsoft co-founder and TechTV owner Paul Allen, a major donor to the $26 million project - will open a vast expanse of space to study. Currently, SETI researchers can scan only 1,000 stars at a time. The Allen array will increase that to at least 100,000, perhaps as many as 1 million. The facility should be ready for use by 2005, pending local approval of land use and permits. A Glimpse Into Our Future? "If we contact somebody, we'll be getting a view of our future, because we're very young in the technical sense," Welch said. "Anybody out there that we might contact must have been around for hundreds or thousands of years. And if they are there to transmit, we'll get a glance at where we might be after that length of time. And the first point of course is we'll see that somebody else has succeeded in surviving for a long time after getting to this level of technical capability." Does that mean all their questions will be answered? Probably not. But Tarter remarks that such a contact will tell us something important about our own future. "If you detect a signal from a distant technology, you know that they made it," Tarter said. "They got there, so even if they don't send you the Encyclopedia Galactica, even if they don't give you the answers to all your questions and solve your problems for you, you know that a solution is possible. You know that you can make it as a technological civilization and last for a long time." ** Copyright 2002 TechTV, Inc. All rights reserved. Copyright =A9 2002 ABC News Internet Ventures.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: CI: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life In The Solar From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 06:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:16:22 -0400 Subject: Re: CI: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life In The Solar >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:09:53 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: CI: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life In The Solar System >Cydonian Imperative >8-7-02 >SETI and Intelligent Alien Life in the Solar System >by Mac Tonnies >See: http://mail.space.com//jump/http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html >1. The Demise of "Academic" SETI? >The "mainstream" Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) >has finally conceded that it's not impossible that aliens are >already here, rather than diligently manning radio telescopes >hundreds of light years away. Inevitably interpreted by some as >signaling a conspiratorial inside agenda, SETI's change of >perspective is more accurately attributed to recent advances in >science and their implications for the human future. SETI has definitely been going through a sea change. The first change announced a couple of years ago was the introduction of OSETI, that is Optical-SETI, the search for lasers flashing across the heavens. After that, the terms SETA - Search for Extraterrestrial Artifacts was introduced as well as SETV - the Search for Extraterrestrial Visitation. The SETV term is now emerging as the new paradigm to follow and integrates all the possible search modalities in this one term. This is from an intoduction to SETV: "Search for ExtraTerrestrial Visitation or less formally, SETV, is a scientific based endeavor to collect meaningful and unambiguous data on objects in Earth's atmosphere or our solar system which may provide evidence of visitations from intelligent probes of extraterrestrial origin. SETV is a heterotic search model, a combination of SETA (Search for ExtraTerrestrial Artifacts) and optical SETI (OSETI) / microwave SETI, which are orthodox scientific search for ETI which use electro-optical signal receivers, large radio telescopes and narrow-band multi-channel receivers. SETV regards as its progenitor SETA which was a search for extraterrestrial artifacts in Earth orbit, Lunar orbit, libration points, the asteroid belt and elsewhere in the solar system." From: http://www.setv.org/intro.html I have been in touch with a couple of people who represent SETV, one who works at JPL and has made several formal proposals for instrument packages that could search for robotic probes in the solar system. His name is Scot Stride. He wrote the following to me in reference to Ufology: "Thanks for taking an interest in SETV. In my judgement, after absorbing dozens of the best books on UFOs, several books on SETI, and a multitude of technical papers written on the subject, SETV is the most important project in terms of the search for ETI. I don't believe radio/optical SETI will be successful, for several reasons I won't go into. Also, in it's present state, UFOlogy will also not be successful. I have come to these conclusions after carefully looking at both sides of the issue. Other than a handful of close (non-NASA) associates who are interested in SETI alternatives, no one in mainstream SETI, or UFOlogy seems to care about SETV. I have two papers published that discuss the SETV strategy, one is in the January/February 2001 issue of JBIS, the other is in the OSETI-3 proceedings from January 2001. Bruce and I have another paper in process which analyzes SETI hypotheses and strategic choice." The Bruce he refers to is Bruce Cornet who is a Ufologist and geologist. I have another take on SETV and that is the proactive search for ET vehicles in our atmosphere or in cisgeo or cislunar space through the application of protocols and use of instruments as proposed by SETV enthusiasts as well as signal monitoring such vehicles - a UFO-oriented SETV program which I am trying to push in Skywatch and MUFON instead of just an investigation of sightings or encounters. I covered this topic at the last MUFON Symposium in Rochester and my paper is printed in the Proceedings of that Symposium. >While SETI continues to ridicule the UFO phenomenon as evidence >of ET visitation, arguments by physicist/ufologist Stanton >Friedman, outlined in the new issue of New Frontiers in Science, >remain especially topical. Friedman, a long-time critic of >SETI's justifications (he's interpreted the acronym as "Silly >Effort To Investigate"), has justifiably lambasted the "old >school" SETI assumption that extraterrestrial civilizations will >necessarily forego interstellar travel because of the daunting >requirements of chemical rockets. Indeed, SETI's long-held >contention that beings thousands or millions of years more >advanced than us would be constrained by Apollo-era technology >(already near-obsolete here on Earth) has always seemed >something of a convenient anachronism for researchers content to >keep the study of ETI comfortably academic. I agree with Stan, but also feel that we need to dialog with these people and I have been attempting that. The case with Scot is one example. Gerry Zeitlin and Open SETI is another case where I have had a dialog going. It is possible to reach certain points of agreement. >2. The Postbiological Cosmos >Rapid advances in computing, manufacturing and physics >(theoretical and otherwise) suggest that intelligent >extraterrestrials (assuming they exist), are almost certainly >more exotic and technically capable that previously assumed. >Scientists such as roboticist Hans Moravec, who predicts that >the human species will become effectively obsolete within the >next few hundred years, and K. Eric Drexler, whose work with >nanotechnology has done nothing less than redefine how futurists >view the coming decades, have collectively modeled a future in >which artificial intelligence is near-omnipresent (ubiquitous >computing or) and practical travel between stars is >moved out of the arena of wishful thinking and into the realm of >the imminently possible. While there have been strides in AI, there are still raging philosophical arguments concerning AI and conscious minds. Eminent physicist Roger Penrose discussed this at length in two books. It is possible that AL or Artificial Life will be a more likely future development. The idea that biogenetically engineered beings may pilot spacecraft in the future may also indicate the possibility that some of them already pilot Alien Craft. Our robots today are too crude to be harbingers of the future. I foresee a development in organic and biotech that may foreshadow the world of the future. Even DNA-based computers. >Recent books such as Moravec's "Robot: Mere Machine to >Transcendent Mind" and Ray Kurzweil's "The Age of Spiritual >Machines" present technologies as optimistic as any dreamed by >Arthur C. Clarke--and as potentially hazardous as the dystopian >nightmares of neo-Luddite Bill Joy. >At the same time, breakthroughs in fields as seemingly arcane as >quantum teleportation (and possibly antigravity) reveal a >universe alive with untapped potential. If the human species can >survive what astronomer Carl Sagan poetically termed our >"technological adolescence," predicting the future with any hope >of accuracy becomes impossible. In all probability, the minds >that will plot our trajectory through the next millennium will >be humanity's cybernetic offspring; the role of humans as we >know them is quite unguessable (although Moravec argues that we >will coexist peacefully with our "mind children," perhaps even >merging with them until the distinction between animate and >inanimate is thoroughly dissolved). Some visionary writers foresaw the airplane, the submarine, and the automobile, but no one seemed to imagine the development of pocket calculators, digital wristwatches, desktop computers, and DVDs. So, who knows what strange developments and innovations may populate the world of the future? >3. SETI's Disturbing Double Standard >Such speculation fuels SETI's new intellectual renaissance, as >addressed by senior researchers Seth Shostak and Jill Tarter >(the inspiration for Jodie Foster's character in "Contact"). >SETI's reappraisal of the galactic neighborhood is both welcome >and long overdue. Rather than reflecting a hidden agenda, SETI's >willingness to entertain once-heretical notions indicates the >(perhaps grudging) need to acknowledge the changing scientific >zeitgeist. Well said. > >However, SETI's implicit rejection of UFOs and evidence for >extraterrestrial artifacts on Mars betrays its frailty as a >political entity. Ignoring the evidence in Cydonia is ironic, as >Carl Sagan's own early calculations suggested that our solar >system may have been visited once every 20,000 years. Even if >Sagan grossly overestimated, a single visiting ET civilization >could have left artifacts within our ability to discover. (This >scenario is presented in the Brookings Institute's famous report >to NASA, with Mars cited as a candidate for ET intervention.) >Interestingly, mainstream SETI astronomers have made no secret >of their searches for "Bracewell probes," theoretical automatic >devices left by visiting civilizations (much like the monolith >left buried on the Moon in). Bracewell probes, in any >exist, are thought to occupy orbital Lagrange points, where they >can remain stable for millennia. Acting as calling cards, such >devices could alert their long-departed creators upon detecting >intelligent life; conversely, the probes themselves could >establish a dialogue with an emerging technical species. (I >personally think that such a "machine intelligence" could be >responsible for some UFO encounters. A similar hypothesis has >recently been advanced by Richard Dolan, author of 'UFOs and the >National Security State'.) Remember the case of Duncan Lunan, the Scottish astronomer who analyzed the Long-Delayed Echos and concluded they were signals being sent out by a probe from Epsilon Bootes? -Bill Hamilton Skywatcher
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Ten Reports In Patagonia Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:52:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:37:43 -0400 Subject: Ten Reports In Patagonia Argentina Source: Diario La Nueva Provincia Date: August 9, 2002 TEN REPORTS IN PATAGONES PATAGONES (A) -- Despite the fact that the red-muzzled mouse was officially fingered by SENASA as the culprit in over 200 animal mutilations in our country, and that the case was closed by said nationwide agency, cases are still being reported in Patagones. This is what rancher Hugo Valdez told "La Nueva Provincia". Valdez, whose property is 50 km northeast of the district seat and some 5000 meters distant from the first cases, at the Miguel Angel Cordoba field. "My son Ignacio made the discovery while out hunting with a friend. They approached the dead animal when they saw it." According to Valdez, the animal's death would have occured some 10 days ago, approximately. Upon reaching the site, they saw that it presented the characteristics of the mutilated animals. Faced with this find, they marked the area, returned home and then went back to see if it was really similar to other cases. "We proceeded to photograph it and perform a necropsy to see what parts were missing," said Valdez. "We could readily see that in part of the lower jawbone, the bone was entirely dessicated. Right there, in that part, it gave the impression of an animal that had been dead for a very long time, " he added. This was not the case, however, with the rest of the body parts, meaning to say that there was no rigor mortis. On the other hand, the udder had been cut off in a circular manner and the anus had been extracted altogether. The digestive and reproductive tracts, as well as the bladder, were absent. There were no incisions nor extractions to be seen in the abdomen, on the other hand. "It was also missing its tongue, but not its trachea. We were surprised when we cut the shoulder blade and turned [the animal] around. There, the flesh seemed practically natural, since an artery was cut and the blood was coagulated. We then opened the abdomen and the rumen, and we could see that the dung was as one would find in a recently butchered animal," explained the rancher. He noted that there was a certain degree of odor, but the flesh gave the impression of having all of its colors, as thoughn the animal had been recently butchered, which can be seen in the photographs [NOTE: NO PHOTOGRAPHS PRESENTED WITH THE ARTICLE]. Hugo Valdez told this paper that he had comments on other cases, but never had direct access to any animal. "This is the first one on my property, and we don't discard the possibility that there could be others, since the wilderness is very dense and access is difficult." The necropsy was carried out by Valdez and his son, who is a veterinary medicine student and whose school--in the province of La Pampa--had obtained access to parts from animals mutilated in this province. "What little he could see resembles greatly what we found in the field. Furthermore, a classmate from the Pampan community of Cuchillo C=F3 had several mutilations on his own property and brought samples to the university. That's what they were able to see," concluded the rancher. Another tank-emptying case occured in a pasture field near to Hugo Valdez's, according to the property's owner, who refused to be identified. One of the large-capacity "Australian tanks" was found completely empty. The event occurred only a few days ago. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Rancher 'Paralyzed' by Unknown Object Follow-Up From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:31:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:41:14 -0400 Subject: Rancher 'Paralyzed' by Unknown Object Follow-Up SOURCE: Diario "La Nueva Provincia" (Bahia Blanca, Argentina0 DATE: August 9, 2002 http://www.lanuevaprovincia.com.ar/02/08/09/289052.sht RANCHER CLAIMS BEING PARALYZED BY UNKNOWN OBJECT **Reports on strange cases emerge** The events involving mutilated animals, which reemerged in recent days, and the UFO sightings at Punta Alta, are now joined by the strange story by a rancher from [the town] of Jacinto Arauz, who claims having been only a meter and a half away from a "flat, three-legged apparatus"--a contact which left him immobilized for an undetermined span of time. Claims of strange lights crossing the skies at night and even the account of a rancher who claims having had a close encounter in broad daylight have joined the mutilations in this locality, which began in early June [2002]. This is the case of Raul Dorado, owner of a field near this location, who was the protagonist of the startling event, which took place as he toured his field, which he does on a daily basis. According to his story, everything began with a noise similar to that of a "whirlwind" and he later saw how a strange craft descended over him, whisking away his cellphone and leaving him momentarily speechless. The rancher was born and lived in the countryside until up to ten years ago. Today, a resident of this Pampan community, he visits the place every day. The site covers only a few hectares located 4 km north of the city, on the sides of Route 35, with groves of trees and reeds growing at the edge of a stream crossing the pasture field. "As I was heading back toward the farmhouse, where I'd left the car, was when that thing appeared, " he recalls. "It was a dim green colored circumference--although in daylight, I wasn't able to note its luminosity. It had three leggs and was barely a meter or meter and a half away from me," he maintained. "When I saw it," he continued, " I felt something like an electrical charge. I fell to the ground on my knees, paralyzed, unable to do anything, with my shotgun leaning on the ground. I was also carrying binoculars and had a cell phone in my left hand, which was sucked up by the green circle. I saw it rising and disappearing." . The following is a segment of the interview between "La Nueva Provincia's" reporter and Raul Dorado. - What was the object like? - Given that I could only see the bottom part, it was a smooth surface with three legs. At no time did it make contact with the ground. I don't know how many minutes it was there, because I lost all notion of time. - Did you see any figures or persons descending from the craft? - No, all I saw was my cell phone "traveling" toward the craft. The same did not happen to my weapon or my binoculars. - How did the object vanish? - It took off toward the west with a muted sound, as though it from a strong wind, a whirlwind that occured instantly and at high spped. - How did you get back into town? - It was roughly 17:00 hrs. when the event occured, and it took a lot [of effort] to reach the farmhouse and the car. I left, and came back home at more or less 19:00 hrs.. I tried telling my wife but I couldn't speak..... "I always tell him to come back by daylight," added his wife, Elda, who stated that she was starting to get concerned since her husband wasn't home yet. "I was about to dial the cell phone when he turned up. He tried to speak but couldn't, and he hugged me and started to cry. I called my neighbor to take him to the hospita, and he then he scribbled what happened to him on a piece of paper, which was later taken by the police." He was attended by physician Ana Maria Lazaric at the hospital, whose examination found nothing abnormal except for a puncture mark in the left ring finger, between the nail and the flesh of the cuticle. How it occured could not be determiend. "He was in a severe state o shock and the doctor gave him a sedative. He wanted to come home and as soon as he woke up the next morning he was able to speak," explained his wife. Dorado said that the puncture was not on his finger prior to the event, but was unable to explain when the injury occured. "The ring and middle fingers of the hand in which I held the cell phone still hurt. My jaws, shoulder and legs also hurt. I always wanted to see something like that, but nothing like this had ever happened to me." While no mutilated animals were found on his property, he explained that a mutilated cow was found 200 meters from his field last week. "A few meters away from the site there's another [mutilated cow] and some 300 meters southeast they recently found one a few days ago. Now I'm more convinced than ever that these mutilations are not caused by mice or other animals." Senior officer Marcelo Alarcon--in charge of the Jacinto Arauz sheriff's office due to Deputy Sheriff Hector Rosane's furlough- -reported that the events at Dorado's field are still being researched. He also noted that the has toured the location in search of tracks or the missing cell phone, although without any results. Regarding the cell phone, police researchers placed phone calls to it on the same night the incident took place to see if anyone answered. On two tries, it would ring and then cut off, and on a third attempt, a sort of breathing could be heard, and then the sound of the keypad being dialed. Follow-up efforts -- constant until the following evening--aimed at finding out who was answering the phone indicated that the cell phone is either off or beyond the coverage area. ============================= Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Three Burros Mutilated in Jujuy Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:00:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:43:13 -0400 Subject: Three Burros Mutilated in Jujuy Argentina Source: Diario La Nueva Provincia Date: August 9, 2002 THREE BURROS MUTILATED IN JUJUY JUJUY -- The discovery of three dead burros, showing signs of mutilation, raised concerns among residents of El Churcal in the Jujuvian department of Humahuaca, according to police sources. The animals, belonging to Miguelina Martinez, were found lying a pasture field. One of them was missing an eye, another its tail and part of the anus, while the third one--a pregnant female-- had a circular wound in the lower abdomen and was missing its foetus. The discovery of the mutilated animals was corroborated by Sixto Vazquez Suleta, an author from Humahuaca and former cultural affairs director of the province, who stated that the case is not normal and is not related to normal predator activity. Vazquez Suleta stated that the animal bodies give off no odor, while dogs refuse to approach them, and there are no signs of violence or struggles in the place they were found. The mutilation claim was made at the Humahuaca sheriff's office, whose headquarters dispatched a mission to scene to learn further details. =============== Translation (C) 2002 IHU Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Mutilated Bovine Found in Catamarca Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:09:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:45:03 -0400 Subject: Mutilated Bovine Found in Catamarca Argentina Source: Telam News Agency (Argentina) Date: August 9, 2002 MUTILATED BOVINE FOUND IN CATAMARCA A mutilated bovine, missing its genitals, tongue, ears and eyes was found in recent hours at the El Pe=F1on location in Catamarca near the El Rodeo summer village, 38 km from the provincial seat, according to the National Health and Agro-Alimentary Quality Service (SENASA). This agency confirmed that a commission is working in the area to reliably determine the appearence of a mutilated bovine. According to the police report, it presents characteristics similar to those of other bovines found in other Argentine provinces. The discovery occured at Cerro Ambato, according to the owner of the mutilated cow--Carlos Sosa--who later made the corresponding claim at the El Rodeo deputy sheriff's office for the alleged crime of "damages". Police confirmed that according to Sosa, the animal in question is a cow missing its genitals, eyes, tongue, and ears, and has a hole in the area of the knee, yet shows no signs of decomposing. Specialized personnel from the National Institute of Livestock Technology (INTA) and SENASA-Catamarca decided to transfer the rest of the mutilated cow to the Catamarcan capital to have them analized in a lab. With the three burros found this week in the province of Jujuy, the number of animal species being mutilated rises to seven. Aside from bovines, which are involved in 90 per cent of the events, horses, pigs, sheep, guanacos and wild boar have also been mutilated. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales IHU Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Strange 'Shroud' Of Ciudad Atlantida Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:40:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:47:28 -0400 Subject: Strange 'Shroud' Of Ciudad Atlantida Argentina Dear Readers of Inexplicata, The paranormal aspects of the unprecedented UFO/cattle mutilation wave being experienced in Argentina since May 2002 are becoming more pronounced. A few days ago, we posted a newspaper article regarding the strange appearance of a ghostly entity near Ciudad Atl=E1ntida. We have the pleasure of presenting you with a follow-up on that story, courtesy of researcher Oscar Adolfo ("Quique") Mario. Scott Corrales--Institute of Hispanic Ufology =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Regarding the news item sent out by Gloria [Coluchi] a few days ago, I would like to mention that the strange figure which many residents now call "The Shroud" is still appearing in Punta Alta, some 27 km from Bahia Blanca. This phenomenon has been verified since Monday, July 29 in an area filled with small sandbanks along the road leading to the Arroyo Pareja municipal beach, facing the Ciudad Atlantida neighborhood, which borders the wire fencing of the Puerto Belgrano Naval Base. The apparitions have been witnessed not only by neighbors, but also by officers of the provincial police and military men on duty at the Belgrano Naval Base, located some 200 meters from the sand dunes where these creatures are seen. The police has been summoned by these same neighbors to verify the accuracy of their statements. In response to these events, and while they have not wanted to confirm them officially, the authorities have stepped up patrols in the area, since the facilities of the Naval Officers Club happen to be in vicinity. The apparitions, which always occur in the early morning hours, have become so common that in recent days several neighbors have stayed up late to see them, and it is thus that they were able to confirm the simultaneous presence of up to 2 such beings, as well as red lights flying over the area. All of the witnesses, whether individuals or in a group, agree that the entities are nebulous ("as if made of tulle") and glowing, with a pair of red eyes being clearly identifiable, and glassy faces ("as if transparent"). Their movements are smooth and they always appear from behind the sand dunes, as though "coming from the [Naval] Base". Most witnesses agree that they show a great interest in the water tanks located above the roofs, and that they do not flee upon detecting the presence of local residents--rather, they stare at them fixedly for some minutes. Deep silence is perceived during the observations and "the air appears to become still" and neither heat nor cold can be felt--only a sensation of warmth, as if [the beings] emanated heat. Witnesses also state that things appear to be darker when "the shroud" appears, as though ambient lighting were dimmed. Another curious fact is the large number of cats and dogs who report to the place where the sightings occur and sit down to observe it in silence, in a state resembling a trance. A series of semicircular prints have been found in the dunes, not very deep, with 15-20 cm separations in some cases and 30-50 cm in others. The locals have identified them as the strange beings' footprints. Efforts have been made to photograph the "shroud", but all images, despite the use of different cameras, appear exposed. One witness who approached the site to witness the phenomenon took two photos of the prints in the afternoon and decided to stay with the group of people hoping to see the "Shroud", managing to take some photos of same and record the new prints which appeared in the dunes after the sighting. Curiously, while the first images of the tracks as well as the ones taken subsequently were perfectly clear, the intermediate photos in which the strange being ought to have been seen were exposed, which could be seen on the negatives as well. An engineer who visited the site suggested that the apparition perhaps generates some sort of radiation that causes film to become exposed, relating it to the "heat" felt by witnesses when the figure approaches. A completely uncommon print was found at the site--but the residents aren't sure if it's related to the phenomenon: it has the shape of a five-fingered claw. One witness tried to make use of his carbine's telescopic sight to see the figure in greater detail, but "when he tried to focus on it, he could see nothing [..] it was as though it could only be seen with the unaided eye." Other residents suggest that the interest shown in the water tanks may bear some kind of relationship with the disappearance of large quantities of liquid in the "Australian tanks" of Bajo Hondo (some 40 km from the site), which occurred in concatenation with the appearance of mutilated bovines, although there is nothing to sustain this theory. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales IHU Special thanks to Christian Quintero and O.A. "Quique" Mario of Proyecto Condor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Secrecy News -- 08/09/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:32:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:50:29 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/09/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 74 August 9, 2002 ** SAUDI "KERNEL OF EVIL" BRIEFING PUBLISHED ** BUSH SECRECY FRUSTRATES CONGRESS ** MUSIC TO SPY BY SAUDI "KERNEL OF EVIL" BRIEFING PUBLISHED Briefing slides from a controversial presentation to the Pentagon's Defense Science Board which declared that Saudi Arabia is "the kernel of evil" were published this week in Slate Magazine. The Washington Post first reported the overtly anti-Saudi briefing, which was given last month in closed session by a RAND Corporation analyst named Laurent Murawiec. The August 6 Post story provoked diplomatic indignation in Saudi Arabia and official disavowals in Washington. The Pentagon felt obliged to issue a statement noting that "Neither the presentations nor the Defense Policy Board members' comments reflect the official views of the Department of Defense." But the most entertaining response came in a Slate Magazine article the next day by Jack Shafer, who asked "Just who the hell is Laurent Murawiec?" In an analysis of the briefing and its author, Shafer found that Murawiec is a somewhat elusive figure who turns out to be no less than a former associate of "the political fantasist, convicted felon, and perpetual presidential candidate Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr." (Larouche, as it happens, was cited this week in the Iranian press in support of the thesis that the September 11 attacks were "a joint brainchild of George W. Bush and Associates and the Zionist entity." [Kayhan International, Tehran, August 4]) See Shafer's August 7 article entitled "The PowerPoint That Rocked the Pentagon" which also includes the previously unpublished briefing slides from the Murawiec presentation and a link to the Washington Post article: http://slate.msn.com/?id69119 Defense Secretary Rumsfeld complained on August 6 that the Post story, written by Thomas E. Ricks, was yet another example of a classified "leak" to the media. "Clearly, somebody decided that it was a good idea to take something that was that potentially controversial ... and give it to a newspaper, even though the meeting was a classified meeting and a closed meeting of the Defense Policy Board," Rumsfeld said. "It's harmful in this case, for example, because it creates a misimpression that someone then has to figure out a way to correct." The following day Secretary Rumsfeld corrected himself, explaining that "there was nothing classified in the briefer's [Murawiec's] paper. And I may have said yesterday... that it was a classified briefing, but it was not. It was a closed briefing but not a classified briefing." BUSH SECRECY FRUSTRATES CONGRESS Congressional frustration with Bush Administration secrecy is growing among members of both parties, according to a story in The Hill newspaper this week. "The Bush administration's refusal to cooperate with even the most routine and basic congressional requests for information is infuriating members of Congress and violating congressional rights and responsibilities, members charge." See "Members hit White House over secrecy," by Alexander Bolton in the August 7 edition of The Hill: http://www.thehill.com/080702/secrecy.shtm MUSIC TO SPY BY "The Secret Service / makes me nervous," wrote Irving Berlin in a song for the Broadway musical "Mr. President," which premiered in 1962. "Those White House dicks / Get all their kicks / When they observe us." That forgotten Berlin number was exhumed and reissued on CD in a new novelty collection called "Music to Spy By," compiled for the International Spy Museum that opened in Washington last month. "Music to Spy By" features a couple of decent tracks -- Bernard Hermann's "The Man Who Knew Too Much" and the affecting theme from "You Only Live Twice" -- as well as curios like songs from The Man from UNCLE, Get Smart, and The Avengers, plus assorted junk. See: http://www.museummusic.com/spy.html The International Spy Museum, a for-profit venture, is reportedly shaping up to be a commercial success. But it has already drawn criticism for its shagadelic vision of espionage and its neglect of the dark side of intelligence. "I looked in vain for some mention of our CIA's involvement in the overthrow of democratically elected governments in Chile and Guatemala, our botched attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro or the CIA's cozy contracts with drug trafficking pilots in Southeast Asia and, more recently, Central America," wrote columnist Clarence Page in an article about the museum this week. See: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/81556_page7.shtml Museum staff say that they aspire to present educational programming over the coming year that will not shy away from controversy. See the Museum web site here: http://www.spymuseum.org/ _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news- request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Lawton Triangles Hoax From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:11:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:52:12 -0400 Subject: Lawton Triangles Hoax The Lawton Triangles "sightings" are now admitted hoaxes. See: http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/Lawtontriangle.html. I have added a second addendum to the original article that describes how the hoax was 'discovered' and the significance of this for the UFO community. The website can take a long time to download all the pictures. However, you don't have to wait for all the pictures to read the text.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 CCCRN News: 'Teardrop' Formation - Ballinafad, From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:39:37 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:53:35 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: 'Teardrop' Formation - Ballinafad, CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 9, 2002 _____________________________ CROP WATCH 2002 'TEARDROP' FORMATION - BALLINAFAD, ONTARIO A 'teardrop' shaped formation reported on August 7, by CCCRN field research assistant Matt Rock. Approximately 10.4 metres (34 feet) by 9.1 metres (30 feet) across, in barley. Alternating and counterclockwise lay of crop, bent nodes and several 'grapeshot' circles nearby. Some initial ground photos and diagram have been posted. Please continue to temporarily use the copy of the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page here: http://www.geocities.com/erasproject/circlescanada02.html This is the sixth report for 2002 (in the main listing of circular/geometric formations; the previous reports of 'randomly downed areas' in Ontario and British Columbia have now been put in a separate RDAs listing after the main report listing) Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field investigations and studies of formations, aerial surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public and the media, in particular during the prime August/September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:55:24 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants <snip> >How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures >before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a >proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm >talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been >retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. <snip> Well said, John. I agree with you entirely. Not only is the UFO/scientific world suffering from this unusual lack of data, but I'd venture to say the lack of publicly released data is helping to (further) stigmatize the "abduction" mystery. It's rather amazing it's been this long without any substantiated information from the 'UFO Doctor'. ===== Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies http://mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Crop Circles Not A Hoax From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:34:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 18:06:35 -0400 Subject: Crop Circles Not A Hoax Just re-published in a substantially revised and updated edition is 'Vital Signs: A Complete Guide To The Crop Circle Mystery And Why It Is Not A Hoax'. The book, widely described as the definitive guide to the crop circle phenomenon, is authored by researcher and swirlednews.com editor Andy Thomas. There are 48 extra pages, comprising another four years of crop formations since the original edition, up to the Chilbolton 'face' and 'code' formations of 2001. Amongst a number of additions is detailed information on the discoveries of Jack Sullivan, with interpretations of certain crop formations as clear astronomical diagrams, plus many additional photographs, updated information, a substantially expanded book and video review appendix and a new foreword by award-winning film director Mike Leigh. The book has its own new website too - for details and online ordering go to: http://www.vitalsignspublishing.co.uk/ Some extracts here: http://www.vitalsignspublishing.co.uk/vs-extracts.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Elaine Tassin <Blueziana@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:45:54 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 18:09:11 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants Greetings List, Reading this update, brought memories flooding back to 1996, when I worked the graveyard shift in the Radiology Dept. at a hospital in Louisiana. I read a medical report of a 50+ woman complaining of, severe headache. She came to the ER, earlier and had sinus views, nasal views. The report stated, "foreign object in sinus". I immediately pulled her chart, and placed film on viewer. She had an implant! I sure wish I could remember her name, to interview her, but ethics, I couldn't overstep the boundries. Elaine Tassin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:49:49 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 18:12:00 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants >Hi All, >Bit of a rant here, if you please. >I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >ago. >The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >(public) attention. >How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures >before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a >proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm >talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been >retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. >Both Lier and Sims both promised to publish any analysis results >in peer review journals when they were attempting to justify the >unusual elective surgical procedures. Never happened. Nothing >has ever been published in any medical or scientific journals >that I know of. >Oh sorry, Dr. Lier wrote and marketed a book about it. And... oh >yeah, he's been busy making the rounds of the UFO lecture >circuit and mass media for the last five years. >I can say that much for his 'accomplishments.' >But... what benefit has there been for the abductees? How much >more do we know now, 20+ surgeries later, than we knew five >years ago? >Bupkis! >Has ufology, science or mankind been served in any way by the >real sacrifices made by some very brave individuals? Has a >dialog or further investigation been the result of any >'published' analytical findings? >Nope. Nada, none, zippo, zero. <snip> John, Your skepticism is well-justified. I used to waste my breath trying to convince MUFON members of the need for critical standards for evaluation of evidence, true scientific peer review, etc., but it mostly fell on deaf ears. Quite a few MUFON members e-mailed me privately to say how much they appreciated my columns, but not enough (apparently) 'leaned-on' the MUFON leadership to bring about meaningful changes. Basically, I was 'fired' for trying to establish scientific standards. Until Leir and others produce meaningful reports replete with peer review, their efforts (no matter how well-intended) are essentially worthless. - Dick P.S. Anyone who hasn't signed the UN petition ought to do so right now.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Lawton Triangles Hoax From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:11:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:52:12 -0400 Subject: Lawton Triangles Hoax The Lawton Triangles "sightings" are now admitted hoaxes. See: http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/Lawtontriangle.html. I have added a second addendum to the original article that describes how the hoax was 'discovered' and the significance of this for the UFO community. The website can take a long time to download all the pictures. However, you don't have to wait for all the pictures to read the text.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 9 Hopkinsville 'Goblins' & 'Signs' From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 21:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 16:55:57 -0400 Subject: Hopkinsville 'Goblins' & 'Signs' I thought the portaral of the aliens in 'Signs' (and no, I'm not giving anything away here) were similar to the Hopkinsville 'goblins'. Has anyone else noticed this? ===== Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies http://mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Speaking Of Major Media From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:23:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:34:10 -0400 Subject: Speaking Of Major Media Hi List, Well I have been out all day, actually from 2:35 a.m. when I left Houston, and headed to Quesnel, B.C. Some many, many, many hours away. Recently, here, someone mentioned that the major media outlets do not cover UFOs in general. Or at least not as much as we may like to see. It is true to some degree, but I know a colleague back East who has done a mountain of large media interviews, so they are interested, from time to time. Anyway, while I was out on the road today, my wife answered the telephone and a lady from back East. Not sure but it may have been from Ontario. If I am wrong someone can correct me. Anyway, The National Post want to talk to me about has taken place here. Now this is a major newspaper which goes right across Canada. So it should be interesting to see what comes from the article after I do the interview. So we do have a major media out let (newspaper going to carry the story of what is going on here in northern B.C. Take care Brian HBCC UFO BTW - The reporter is calling back on Monday.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - From: David Pengilly <davidpengilly@shaw.ca> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:53:27 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:37:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:56:39 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight >I watched it. Hey, where were those debunkers? >An excellent presentation. Even hoaxers admitted to seeing balls >of light at night and to genuine crop formations. Now, would >they please do one like that on Roswell. Hello Bill, I thought it was well done also. I didn't know that Dr. Levengood also believed in Dr. Meaden's 'plasma vortices' theory. I can understand that theory with some of the formations, especially the fractal formations such as the Julia Sets, but not the 'human face', the 'Arecibo' formation or the 'eclipse' series. Or are those supposed to be fakes? I admit it was nice for the hoaxers to say that they had seen balls of light and that they didn't fake them all, but maybe that are just saying that to keep interest up! It would have been better if they mentioned some of the more dramatic formations and say, "We did not fake those ones!" Again, how could we believe them anyway. Very interesting, but still no answers. Dave Pengilly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Norwegian 'UFO' Identified As SAS Airbus From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 03:45:28 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:39:26 -0400 Subject: Norwegian 'UFO' Identified As SAS Airbus Source: Hoover's Online (UK) http://huknews.hoovers.com/fp.asp?layout=3Ddisplaynews&doc_id=3DNR2002080936= 00.1_721c0000683db7d2 The first report by Faedrelandsvennen, a Norwegian newspaper, with links to a video recording of the object can be found at: http://www.fedrelandsvennen.no/Nyheter/Vest-Agder/kristiansand/article.jhtml= ?articleID=3D57545 The solution can be found in Norwegian at: http://www.fedrelandsvennen.no/Nyheter/article.jhtml?articleID=3D57900&artic= leID=3D57900 Stig *** Norwegian "UFO" identified as SAS aircraft August 9, 2002 3:33pm ** A Norwegian "UFO" has been identified as an Airbus 340 aircraft on its way from Copenhagen, Denmark to Newark, USA. The unidentified flying object over Ny-Hellesund was identified by a former air traffic controller as flight 901, operated by SAS. The aircraft passed over the location at 2135 CET at 36,000 feet or 11,000 metres, reported Faedrelandsvennen, a Norwegian newspaper. ((Comments on this story may be sent to aii.feedback@m2.com)) Copyright =A9 2002 by NewsEdge Copyright =A9 2001, Hoover's, Inc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Expanded Version Of Greek UFO Story From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 04:26:28 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:41:30 -0400 Subject: Expanded Version Of Greek UFO Story Source: The Guardian (UK) http://www.guardian.co.uk/silly/story/0,10821,772134,00.html Stig *** Close encounters of the crop-eating kind Helena Smith, Athens Saturday August 10, 2002 The Guardian ** UFOs are destroying the plains of fertile central Greece, according to farmers who claim to have spotted alien aircraft landing in their fields. After a visit by a "strange flying saucer" this week, one angry farmer in the Koziakas area said he had lost several dozen hectares of wheat. "This huge circular flying object just floated down from the skies on to my field," said Athanassios Tsioukas from the village of Prini. "Its surface was full of small holes." The farmer found the close encounter so unnerving that he rushed to the local coffee shop to alert his friends. "When we got back to the field the aliens had gone," he sighed. "But their machine had left all these holes in the soil, some as deep as 20cm, which had cut into my crops." Mr Tsioukas is not alone. Numerous farmers in the region have complained of unidentified flying objects leaving strange markings across their fields, although there is no suggestion that the unexplained designs are crop circles of the kind seen in Britain. Some farmers have even demanded compensation. So far, the pleas have fallen on deaf ears as claimants have been unable to name or pinpoint the mysterious crop-eaters. A fellow farmer, Apostolos Patramanis, who was in the next field at the time of the latest sighting, said he looked up to see "bright flashes light up the skies - and then this huge object appeared and landed on Tsioukas's crops". In recent years, growing numbers of UFOs have also been reported in Cyprus. Last March, a Swiss photographer who had just retired to Paphos, on the south of the island, said he spotted a silver, saucer-shaped object "emerge from the clouds" as he walked along the beach. The UFO apparently hovered before "floating down" and disappearing behind some rocks. Two years ago another flying object was also spotted in the skies of Cyprus from the Troodos mountain range, not far from the British base at Akrotiri. ** Guardian Unlimited =A9 Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Still More Details On Greek Sightings From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 04:41:00 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:43:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Still More Details On Greek Sightings Source: Kathimerini - Greece's International English Language Newspaper August 9, 2002 http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100016_09/08/2002_19661 Stig *** Farmer claims UFO landed in his field ** Residents of the village of Prini, near the town of Trikala in central Greece, claim an unidentified flying object landed in a nearby field early on Wednesday morning, destroying crops growing there. Athanassios Tsioukas, a local farmer, said he saw a huge circular flying object about 10 meters in diameter, and full of small holes, land in his field. It apparently left depressions in the soil of up to 20 centimeters. He ran to the local cafe to tell his neighbors, who all rushed to the scene. Children in a nearby village claimed they saw large flashes in the sky that moved in the direction of Tsioukas's field at the time of the alleged landing. Another farmer, Apostolos Patramanis, who was in his own field at the time, said he saw the large object land on Tsioukas's property. Locals say UFOs are regularly sighted in the area. **
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Review 'Unearthly Disclosure' By Timothy Good From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:46:07 -0400 Subject: Review 'Unearthly Disclosure' By Timothy Good Unearthly Disclosure by Timothy Good (review by Mac Tonnies) As in his previous "Alien Base," researcher and world-traveler Timothy Good takes us on a thoroughly entertaining trip to the core of the UFO phenomenon, addressing rarely discussed sightings and incidents with admirable candor. Good makes no secret of his earth-shattering thesis: he's convinced that various alien species are here on Earth and operating (if only peripherally) with our governments. The controversial Roswell Incident is positively tame compared to some of the conspiracy theories chronicled here: massive alien bases deep below the Pacific, extraterrestrial cattle mutilations not-so-discretely monitored by counterintelligence goons in proverbial "unmarked helicopters," and alleged genetic experiments gone awry in the Puerto Rican rain forest. Good pursues his subject with passion, dry wit, and not a little incredulity, relating the claims of various latter-day "contactees" with caution. "Unearthly Disclosure" is one of the most compulsively readable UFO books in recent years, packed with enough high strangeness to fuel a dozen UFO conferences. It will set your imagination reeling. More: http://mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:48:00 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >Subject: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >ago. However, not enough of us asked questions! >The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >(public) attention. No kidding. But don't give Roger Leir more recognition than he deserves in this context. He is a doctor, but not a medical doctor. He's probably experienced in removing foreign bodies from feet, but do you think he's qualified to analyze anything? As for Derrel Sims, I don't think he's a medical professional in any sense of the word(s). >How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures >before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a >proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm >talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been >retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. And the results should be fully reported, whether anomalous or not. >Both Lier and Sims both promised to publish any analysis >results >in peer review journals when they were attempting to justify >the >unusual elective surgical procedures. Never happened. Nothing >has ever been published in any medical or scientific journals >that I know of. Maybe their results weren't remarkable. Maybe their science wasn't remarkable. Promising publishing and getting published are two completely different things. [snip] >Once again I ask... "How many _more_ have to undergo invasive >surgery before enough becomes enough?" These are after all, >human beings we're discussing, not cattle. Does it bother >anybody else? It has bothered me from the beginning but probably not for the same reasons. Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:52:56 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Speiser >From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:01:52 -0400 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Come on, Wendy, lighten up on the guy. You're painting him like >>the Osama bin Laden of Ufology. All he is is wrong! >Klass has (in the past) been allowed to make statements of fact >when he has apparently performed little or no research into the >incident. The press has often viewed those statements as the >"official" skeptical view, and dropped further interest. Klass >isn't evil, but he hasn't helped the search for truth in many >cases. That's an understatement, to be sure. But having interviewed him in the past, I believe he does this out of a genuine interest in advancing human knowledge, and not out of some vindictive spoil- sportsmanship. It's fun to paint him as the bogeyman - hell, he even has fun with it himself, as my official autographed Phil Klass dartboard will testify - and gives our side a sense of 'team'... but it's not a realistic view. In reality, all this is is a difference of opinion. >>And I happen to think CSICOP's principles - _when_ they stick to >>them - are legitimate goals. There _is_ a serious lack of a >>foundation of scientific knowledge among Americans, and much of >>what's out there is superstition masquerading as science. We _do_ >>need CSICOP - or at least some form of organized skepticism. >We can't really get into this here, but how do you define >"scientific knowledge"? Why can't we get into this here? Is there some rule here that I'm not aware of, that says that discussions of science philosophy as regards the UFO question are not allowed on UFO UpDates? [Nope --ebk] I define "scientific knowledge", or more correctly, "science knowledge", as that knowledge obtained through the rigorous use of the scientific method - to misquote Churchill, the _worst_ method of obtaining knowledge of the universe...except for all the others. >This sounds a lot like Carl Sagan's >fear that the astrologers, fortune tellers and palm readers are >going to win, and I didn't know this was a contest. It certainly is a contest. And it's not just astrologers, fortune tellers and palm readers, it's faith-healers, psychic detectives, psychic surgeons, and other charlatans who do real damage. Sagan was right to fear that this sort of bunkum would supplant science - and it does so through people's mistrust of science and desire to embrace the mystical. Partly the fault of Science itself, I say, through its failure to communicate with the masses, choosing instead to talk over their heads. >Certainly >we need to have a skeptical viewpoint when dealing with >phenomena that we cannot easily identify, but we don't need to >have a dogmatic skeptical viewpoint. "We reject any form of dogma - including our own!" -- Paul Kurtz, chairman of CSICOP Nice words, but seldom adhered to. My point being, I have to agree with you that the participants in CSICOP and its locally- based sycophants are by and large more interested in the ego- feed of debunking and putting down the "True Believers"; yet I maintain that the _principles_ on which CSICOP was founded remain worthy. Dogma was not supposed to be one of those principles. >>It's the tail on our kite, that keeps us from flying off out of >>control in all directions. Their problem is they try to weight >>the kite down so much that it won't fly at all. >We certainly agree on this point. >It's been said that while we want to have an open mind, we don't >want our brains to fall out (or some such paraphrase). "One should have an open mind...but not so open as, say, a refuse can." -- Joe Nickell >I agree >that we need to have a skeptical viewpoint to help keep us >focused on a scientific pursuit. We just don't need to have >demeaning generic responses. Agreed. >>But all in all, they are a necessary part of the point- >>counterpoint that assures that we really _know_ what we know, >>because it's been subjected to rigorous review. They have >>largely succeeded in the areas of psychic phenomena, medical >>frauds, and faith-healing. They've tried their best with UFOs, >>and simply failed. >Actually, I think they've succeeded to a great degree. But the >UFO genre seems to be more visible and vocal, so we just won't >go away..... <g> They have succeeded in providing a skeptical framework in which to view UFOs, and thereby have succeeded in explaining many cases; more important, they have succeeded in "training" us in Ufology to be more vigilant and less credulous. Is anyone here willing to state that organized skepticism has had no influence whatsoever on their ability to discern misperceptions and hoaxes? When I say they have failed, however, I mean in terms of obviating the entire field - after the dust clears, UFOs still stand as a legitimate scientific pursuit, worthy of our best efforts at exploration. The same cannot be said for spoon-bending, for example. >IMO, the genre won't gain credibility among traditional >scientists until it >1 - Defines the discipline under study >2 - Establishes rules of evidence as they pertain to that > discipline >3 - Establishes a peer review process in the publication of > Journal No argument there. Is JUFOS no longer published? I thought that was a peer-reviewed science journal. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: UFO Radio - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:24:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:54:33 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Radio - Speiser >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:10:23 +0200 >Subject: UFO Radio >Forwarded from 'alt.paranet.ufo'. >Stig >*** >From: theteam@uforadio.co.uk (Heidi) >Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo >Subject: UFO radio >Date: 8 Aug 2002 09:58:02 -0700 >UFO Radio is due to start transmission later this year, we are >looking for ufologists, groups, other web-sites, organisations, <snip> I'm embarrassed (and surprised!) to admit, I didn't know alt.paranet.ufo was still in existence, ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:47:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:56:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Speiser >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:11:27 -0400 >Subject: Lawton Triangles Hoax >The Lawton Triangles "sightings" are now admitted hoaxes. See: >http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/Lawtontriangle.html. Bruce: Do you think this event underscores the end of the "photo- analysis" era of Ufology? With digital cameras, cut-and-paste, and the 'lasso tool', how are we to ever trust a photo, even a thoroughly analysed one, again? Are there ways of detecting these things? Without a negative? ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 02:10:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:58:04 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:23:42 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >>Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants ><snip> >>How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures >>before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a >>proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm >>talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been >>retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. ><snip> >Well said, John. I agree with you entirely. Not only is the >UFO/scientific world suffering from this unusual lack of data, >but I'd venture to say the lack of publicly released data is >helping to (further) stigmatize the "abduction" mystery. >It's rather amazing it's been this long without any >substantiated information from the 'UFO Doctor'. Hiya Mac, What's really amazing is that nobody has called him on it. Not just Lier, but all of these alleged "researchers" that claim to conduct "investigations" and turn up "evidence" that is never studied/analyzed/ or reviewed by _independent_ experts. Noooo, instead of being called on the carpet for not conducting proper studies, they are rewarded with book sales, invitations to speak at conferences, and they enjoy the admiration (and in some cases, the adoration) of the public at large. We reward these charlatans and snake-oil salesmen instead of running them out of town on a rail. I'll never 'get that' about ufology. Ufologists want to be taken seriously, but they refuse to demand the very best of themselves and their peers. It's more like a 'good ole boys' group where everybody agrees not to pull each others covers so that every one can 'make-out' and enjoy whatever benefits are to be had. A ufological "Blue wall of silence." I say 'right-on' to Royce Myers III and other who expose these phonies for the self-serving opportunists that they are. They hurt us all with their shenanigans. In this case, literally. Ouch! Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 02:24:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:03:06 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Elaine Tassin <Blueziana@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:45:54 EDT >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >>Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants >Greetings List, >Reading this update, brought memories flooding back to 1996, >when I worked the graveyard shift in the Radiology Dept. at a >hospital in Louisiana. >I read a medical report of a 50+ woman complaining of, severe >headache. She came to the ER, earlier and had sinus views, >nasal views. >The report stated, "foreign object in sinus". >I immediately pulled her chart, and placed film on viewer. >She had an implant! >I sure wish I could remember her name, to interview her, but >ethics, I couldn't overstep the boundries. Hi Elaine, Just curious... what was it about the object you saw in the x-ray that led you to believe that you were looking at an artificial (as opposed to a natural object) that had been implanted (as opposed to acquired by some other method) in this lady's sinuses? Interesting story. Thanks for sharing it. I have often wondered just how much doctors and other health care professionals have seen/encountered in patients and either discussed it among them selves, or simply kept quiet about it because they couldn't explain it. I've had a couple of incidents of this kind crop up over the years. 1. About 20 years ago I had a routine chest picture taken as a part of a check-up. (Because I am a smoker and I was complaining about a nagging cough.) When the doctor looked at the x-ray he remarked, (with genuine feeling) "What the hell is that?" In the x-ray there was a _smooth, solid ring_ (inside) one of the arteries of my heart. He had the technician take another x-ray and he asked him to open up a new box of film. The doctor thought that 'something' had ruined/contaminated (left an impression on) the film that was used. The 'ring' showed up in the second x-ray in the exact same position. He apologized and said that they must have purchased a bad batch of film. The x-ray tech commented that all the other pix he had taken using the same batch of film came out just fine. Because my lungs were clear in the shots, we all just moved on and I soon forgot the whole incident. 2. After a close-up encounter with a UFO that also involved a whole night of missing time, I went to an emergency room to have a doctor treat a swollen eye and nose bleed that had developed overnight. The ER physician asked me why I had had 'surgery' performed high up in my sinus cavity. I informed him that I had never had 'surgery' on/in my sinuses. He called for an ENT specialist to have a look at me, and the ENT asked me the same question; "What was the surgery for?" Two trained physicians saw evidence of surgery inside my head. I have never in my life had _any_ surgery performed inside my head. 3. My current family physician found a healed puncture wound inside my right ear that he thought might have been a scar left behind by a drain that some other doctor had placed there. I informed him that I had not had any procedures performed in my ear and that I have never punctured my ear drum. I don't stick things in my ears. Ever. 4. About two years ago I experienced a 'spontaneous remission' to an incurable disease. My gastroenterologist wrote a paper that he submitted to CDC in Washington DC about my case. In his 20 years of practicing medicine he had never seen or heard of anything like what had happened to me. To this day he mentions it every time I see him for a follow-up. It really blew this guy's mind. Over and over throughout my life doctors have asked me about surgical procedures that that I have never undergone, but that they find evidence for. Add that to a spontaneous remission and you get a strange situation at best. Simple curiosities when taken one at a time. But odd and anomalous when considered en masse. I wonder how many others who claim to have experienced a life- time of abduction have similar medical oddities and stories to tell. I have a feeling that the day doctors and nurses chime in on these anomalies we'll have a lot more evidence for a 'real' (physical) phenomenon to consider. You're a good example of what I'm talking about. Thanks again for your contribution. Nice to meet you. :) John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 02:27:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:06:22 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:49:49 +0000 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >>Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants >>Bit of a rant here, if you please. >>I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >>(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >>kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >>ago. >>The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >>since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >>20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >>Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >>advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >>(public) attention. >>How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures >>before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a >>proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm >>talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been >>retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. >>Both Lier and Sims both promised to publish any analysis results >>in peer review journals when they were attempting to justify the >>unusual elective surgical procedures. Never happened. Nothing >>has ever been published in any medical or scientific journals >>that I know of. >>Oh sorry, Dr. Lier wrote and marketed a book about it. And... oh >>yeah, he's been busy making the rounds of the UFO lecture >>circuit and mass media for the last five years. >>I can say that much for his 'accomplishments.' >>But... what benefit has there been for the abductees? How much >>more do we know now, 20+ surgeries later, than we knew five >>years ago? >>Bupkis! >>Has ufology, science or mankind been served in any way by the >>real sacrifices made by some very brave individuals? Has a >>dialog or further investigation been the result of any >>'published' analytical findings? >>Nope. Nada, none, zippo, zero. ><snip> >Your skepticism is well-justified. I used to waste my breath >trying to convince MUFON members of the need for critical >standards for evaluation of evidence, true scientific peer >review, etc., but it mostly fell on deaf ears. >Quite a few MUFON members e-mailed me privately to say how much >they appreciated my columns, but not enough (apparently) >'leaned-on' the MUFON leadership to bring about meaningful >changes. Hi Dick, You wrote: >Basically, I was 'fired' for trying to establish scientific >standards. Yeah, that sounds about right. Sadly, it's par for the course in ufology. >Until Leir and others produce meaningful reports replete with >peer review, their efforts (no matter how well-intended) are >essentially worthless. You bet. The lack of an organized oversight committee or review panel forces us all to police ourselves. Too many of these self-proclaimed 'researchers' and 'experts' are never held to the same kind of scientific and ethical standards that is _basic_ to many other disciplines. There are still way too many people in ufology that are doing a half-assed job and being rewarded for it. And, at the expense of the witnesses that provide the reports/cases that these "researchers" write books about. If _we_ (all of us) don't begin to demand the very best from those who profess to be conducting legitimate research, then we deserve what we get. What we have been getting all along. There are exceptions. But they are so few and far in between that it doesn't bear mention here in this context. I am genuinely surprised that Dr. Lier has not been questioned (about all of these surgeries) by a medical review board. It's unbelievable. >P.S. Anyone who hasn't signed the UN petition ought to do so >right now. Yes! Please. I'll post a progress report soon. Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:08:11 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hatch >From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:01:52 -0400 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Come on, Wendy, lighten up on the guy. You're painting him like >>the Osama bin Laden of Ufology. All he is is wrong! >Klass has (in the past) been allowed to make statements of fact >when he has apparently performed little or no research into the >incident. The press has often viewed those statements as the >"official" skeptical view, and dropped further interest. Klass >isn't evil, but he hasn't helped the search for truth in many >cases. <snip> >>But all in all, they are a necessary part of the point- >>counterpoint that assures that we really _know_ what we know, >>because it's been subjected to rigorous review. They have >>largely succeeded in the areas of psychic phenomena, medical >>frauds, and faith-healing. They've tried their best with UFOs, >>and simply failed. >Actually, I think they've succeeded to a great degree. But the >UFO genre seems to be more visible and vocal, so we just won't >go away..... <g> >IMO, the genre won't gain credibility among traditional >scientists until it >1 - Defines the discipline under study >2 - Establishes rules of evidence as they pertain to that >discipline >3 - Establishes a peer review process in the publication of >Journal >These have all be discussed over the years on this List, and the >debate continues. >Steve - - - - - Hello Jim, Steve: This is just my personal take. The 3 steps Steve outlines are highly desireable, but still probably not enough for mainstream science and the informed public at large. [ Most anything will do for tabloids readers, I'm not discussing them.] I feel it will take nothing less than hard physical evidence, and I don't mean traces in a field, radar blips, photos and the like .. all too easily dismissed by critics. Some molten slag won't do, even if it does contain unusual materials in unlikely proportions. I'm talking about an 'alien' craft, some part of one, or some other manufactured object that could not possibly have a natural, conventional or manmade source. I'm not holding my breath waiting for something along those lines to turn up either. It could happen in the past, present or future... perhaps never. Other things could turn the tables. Suppose alien spacecraft travel between another solar system and ours. They would almost certainly send signals back and forth, and have home base signalling to them. Some of these signals could sail right past the craft and reach the Earth, assuming a straight-line (non- evasive) trajectory. Provided we are capable of detecting such signals, they might be detected by a SETI type effort, assuming the technology is not too terribly different from ours; lasers, microwave or whatever. A third way would be for the originators of the most mysterious UFOs, those that defy conventional explanation, to simply announce themselves at long last. I hold virtually no hope for that last item at all. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: NASA Webcasts Secret Mars Rover Test From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 02:22:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:10:08 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA Webcasts Secret Mars Rover Test -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : Web Log August 10, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com -------------------------------------------------- =BB NASA WEBCASTS SECRET MARS ROVER TEST martian enigmas image: FIDO Field Test Rover http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/FidoTestRover.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - A film crew from the San Francisco Exploratorium will Webcast a field test of NASA's Mars rover prototype, FIDO, from an undisclosed location in the American Southwest. The secret location helps ward off curiosity seekers, but also forces JPL engineers to blind test the remote control systems under real life conditions. Hard core robotics fans will recall how the first Mars rover, Sojourner, bumped up against Yogi rock while trying to collect a sample. The new FIDO prototype reportedly had some trouble recognizing a bush. The NASA field tests should result in valuable design improvements. NASA has been testing the FIDO robot all week. The Webcast is scheduled to coincide with the final day of testing on August 19. The next generation of Mars Exploration Rovers will be the most powerful ever deployed. The new MERs will be more ambulatory and able to break open rocks, much like a human geologist with a hammer. -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES 09-Aug-02 Rover Revealed: Secret Mars Robot Test to be Webcast http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/mars_rover_020809.html (Space.com) - The trials inform engineers how best to design the hardware and software for two Mars Exploration Rovers (MER) that are slated for launch in 2003. A prototype called FIDO (Field Integrated Design & Operations) is used in the desert. 09-Aug-02 Preparing for Mars, FIDO in the Desert http://www.exploratorium.edu/marsrover/ (Exploratorium) - NASA is gearing up for the 2004 landing of the Mars Exploration Rovers, or MERs. During the first weeks of August, NASA engineers and scientists from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena will test their remote operation procedures using a rover called FIDO. Our remote team will travel to the desert test site, and to JPL, to find out how scientists and engineers use these tests to prepare themselves for their upcoming red-planet adventure. 07-Aug-02 Tonnies: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life in the Solar System http://mactonnies.com/imperative33.html (The Cydonian Imperative) - Since SETI is willing to look for ET artifacts in space, why not planetary surfaces? Not long ago, a geologist involved in JPL's robotic exploration of Mars remarked that the proper way to view the fourth planet was to "expect the unexpected." We would be wise to apply this maxim to the ongoing search for extraterrestrial intelligence as well. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR August 10, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 NASA Webcasts Secret Mars Rover Test From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 02:22:41 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:12:58 -0400 Subject: NASA Webcasts Secret Mars Rover Test -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : Web Log August 10, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com -------------------------------------------------- =BB NASA WEBCASTS SECRET MARS ROVER TEST martian enigmas image: FIDO Field Test Rover http://www.electricwarrior.com/mol/FidoTestRover.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - A film crew from the San Francisco Exploratorium will Webcast a field test of NASA's Mars rover prototype, FIDO, from an undisclosed location in the American Southwest. The secret location helps ward off curiosity seekers, but also forces JPL engineers to blind test the remote control systems under real life conditions. Hard core robotics fans will recall how the first Mars rover, Sojourner, bumped up against Yogi rock while trying to collect a sample. The new FIDO prototype reportedly had some trouble recognizing a bush. The NASA field tests should result in valuable design improvements. NASA has been testing the FIDO robot all week. The Webcast is scheduled to coincide with the final day of testing on August 19. The next generation of Mars Exploration Rovers will be the most powerful ever deployed. The new MERs will be more ambulatory and able to break open rocks, much like a human geologist with a hammer. -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES 09-Aug-02 Rover Revealed: Secret Mars Robot Test to be Webcast http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/mars_rover_020809.html (Space.com) - The trials inform engineers how best to design the hardware and software for two Mars Exploration Rovers (MER) that are slated for launch in 2003. A prototype called FIDO (Field Integrated Design & Operations) is used in the desert. 09-Aug-02 Preparing for Mars, FIDO in the Desert http://www.exploratorium.edu/marsrover/ (Exploratorium) - NASA is gearing up for the 2004 landing of the Mars Exploration Rovers, or MERs. During the first weeks of August, NASA engineers and scientists from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena will test their remote operation procedures using a rover called FIDO. Our remote team will travel to the desert test site, and to JPL, to find out how scientists and engineers use these tests to prepare themselves for their upcoming red-planet adventure. 07-Aug-02 Tonnies: SETI & Intelligent Alien Life in the Solar System http://mactonnies.com/imperative33.html (The Cydonian Imperative) - Since SETI is willing to look for ET artifacts in space, why not planetary surfaces? Not long ago, a geologist involved in JPL's robotic exploration of Mars remarked that the proper way to view the fourth planet was to "expect the unexpected." We would be wise to apply this maxim to the ongoing search for extraterrestrial intelligence as well. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR August 10, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Crop Circle Experts Doung The Rounds From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:57:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:57:47 -0400 Subject: Crop Circle Experts Doing The Rounds Life Section Page K9 Crop Circle Experts Doung The Rounds Canadian group investigates our own =91signs=92 by Ryan Parton Special To The Star The truth is out there. Maybe even in Ontario. With the release of Signs, the latest summer blockbuster brought to us by the Disney crew, director M. Night Shyamalan shakes the cobwebs off the all-but-forgotten phenomenon of crop circles =97 patterns of downed crops that mysteriously appear in fields. At least one Toronto man, however, has had his vigilant eye on the strange formations long before Mel Gibson=92s haunting gaze began taunting us with hints of the supernatural from the movie=92s suspense-filled trailers. Drew Gauley, 33, is Ontario=92s co-ordinator for the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, a loose network of amateur cereologists (crop circle researchers) who have been studying the phenomenon in Canada for the past seven years. The group, founded in 1995 under a different affiliation and operating under its current name since 2001, has roughly 30 volunteers and co-ordinators in seven provinces. Gauley, with the help of the volunteers, is responsible for documenting and investigating all crop circle reports in the province. "I=92m just interested in the whole mystery end of things," says Gauley, who makes his living doing audio-visual work. "It just doesn=92t happen too often that very strange things like this go on and that you can actually go and check it out and see for yourself." Ontario has had 35 crop circle reports including four new began appearing in Canada more than 50 years ago, according to the network=92s Web site at: www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/welcome.html (currently being reconstructed). There have been eight crop circles reported in Canada this year, the latest spotted last Saturday in a barley field in Quebec. The circles usually appear in corn and wheat fields. Gauley has visited one site per year since he teamed up with the network three years ago. He says two of the circles were likely created by pranksters or wind damage. The other circle, seen in a wheat field in Hagersville, Ont., in July, 1999, left him baffled. He says the crop had been laid down in a complicated, four-way weave, almost as if braided. "In order for something like that to happen for someone to have to be really meticulous. You=92d need numerous people pushing each of the sections down and getting them all to weave in four different directions like that." Even more puzzling was what he saw when he returned to the same site several months later, in November. Theories range from pranksters to aliens "New sprouts had all come up where all the crop had been laid down. That was really cool," he says. "It was as if this area was nutrified or something and everything else was dormant for the winter. The sprouts had come up where the pattern was only... everything else was brown." Similar boosts in crop performance have been reported in Alberta. While the physical characteristics of crop circles are captivating in themselves, it=92s the allegedly paranormal occurrences centred around the formations that fuels the fire for information about them. Paul Anderson, the net work=92s Vancouver-based founder and director, can run through a laundry list of bizarre experiences he has had, from compasses and electrical equipment malfunctioning in-side formations to dreams in which he sees formations that are reported mere days later. "I=92m actually quite skeptical about a lot of things," says Anderson, who is working on a book about the history of crop circles in Canada. "But I've (seen) enough my self now that I can=92t explain, that there has to be something more to all this than just people crops)..... Almost everyone I know who=92s involved in this kind of stuff has had things like that happen." Gauley says he has never had any such paranormal experiences. "Not yet," he adds. There are numerous theories out there about the source of the circles. These range from pranks to covert military operations to beings from another dimension trying to communicate warnings. Gauley accepts the theory that many crop circles are nothing =91more than elaborate hoaxes, but says that doesn=92t detract from their attraction. "It certainly has become an aspect of the whole phenomenon nowadays. If it is this worldwide phenomenon of pranksters, at least they=92re making really beautiful art work, you know? In a way, it=92s a very interesting canvas and level for people to have an outing in afield." As for the remainder, Gauley prefers to simply enjoy the mystery of the formations rather than side with any of the numerous theories. "There=92s a million and one of these things," Gauley says. "I=92m sort of neutral... I don=92t know, but that=92s why I go, because I don=92t know, and nobody else seems to know." So, until the truth is revealed, he remains on the lookout, sort of a man in black on standby, ready to spring into action should the need arise in his home province. As to when that truth will be discovered, the circle aficionado has a quick answer "It=92s al ways right around the corner, and it=92s been like that for years." --- Ryan Parton is a freelance writer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Reviews 'Signs' & 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:07:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:22:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Reviews 'Signs' & 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' - >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >To: UFO UpDates<ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Reviews 'Signs' & 'Mystery vs. Hollywood' >Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 19:40:40 -0700 >Dear friends, >I've been often asked for my opinion about the movie 'Signs'. >Although we are not movie experts, it seemed like a great movie, >with an interesting story and an excellent cast and production. >The movie is based on the mysterious crop circle formations in >England, but it takes place across the Atlantic, in >Pennsylvania. Although the Hollywood production attributes the >crop circles to evil ETs and UFOs, it attempts to send a message >about family unity, and how it helps to cope with difficult >situations. >The movie 'Signs' is a fictional drama, but it's based on a real >and ongoing events. In fact, the phenomena that inspired the >producers of the movie - the crop circle formations - are so >intriguing, the premier was an extraordinary success. ... <snip> >Without a doubt, the >crop circle phenomenon will be one of the most discussed topics >for this summer. England should see an increase in tourism due >to the many crop circle believers, as well as the many others >that are now being introduced to this phenomena. I saw the movie. It was better than expected, as an adventure story/science fiction. <Plot details removed - there are still many who intend seeing this film! --ebk> The more I think of it, the more I realize that this film is full of logical inconsistencies... but maybe just enough illogic to win an oscar for performance..... And, by the way, how did the aliens make the agriglyphs? By stomping on the corn with boards? Doug and Dave are looking down from above on this. They approve.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:50:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:25:52 -0400 Subject: JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 <snip> >No argument there. Is JUFOS no longer published? I thought that >was a peer-reviewed science journal. JUFOS is still published on an irregular basis. Unfortunately, I believe the Journal is not supported by its sales and requires an influx of cash (i.e. donations) to get another publication out the door. Another journal that comes to mind is the Journal of Scientific Exloration (JSE), which often has articles of interest to those in this genre. Unfortunately, neither is widely distributed beyond the recipients who have purchasesd individual copies. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:59:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:43:04 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up I wrote: >>IMO, the genre won't gain credibility among traditional scientists >>until it >>1 - Defines the discipline under study > >>2 - Establishes rules of evidence as they pertain to that discipline >>3 - Establishes a peer review process in the publication of Journal >>These have all be discussed over the years on this List, and >the debate continues. >>Steve >- - - - - >Hello Jim, Steve: >This is just my personal take. >The 3 steps Steve outlines are highly desireable, but still >probably not enough for mainstream science and the informed >public at large. [ Most anything will do for tabloids readers, >I'm not discussing them.] >I feel it will take nothing less than hard physical evidence, >and I don't mean traces in a field, radar blips, photos and the >like .. all too easily dismissed by critics. Some molten slag >won't do, even if it does contain unusual materials in unlikely >proportions. I certainly agree, but we're really talking about "paradigm shifting" evidence that would have to be very solid, if our goal is to prove extraterrestrial visitation. My suggestions were designed to begin the establishment of a framework that could lead to acceptance of the information we gather. This doesn't necessarily mean that we would have answers for the cause of those things (events, traces, etc.) we believe to unexplainable, but certainly we should be able to nail down the fact that mundane explanations don't fit the facts we have. It is those "facts" that are usually in dispute, and until we can gain acceptance for any position we take, then we'll continue to preach to the faithful while the rest of humanity views this as a form of entertainment. Gads, I sound cynical, but that's probably due to my head cold. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:12:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:46:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Maccabee >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:47:41 -0700 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:11:27 -0400 >>Subject: Lawton Triangles Hoax >>The Lawton Triangles "sightings" are now admitted hoaxes. See: >>http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/Lawtontriangle.html. >Bruce: >Do you think this event underscores the end of the "photo- >analysis" era of Ufology? With digital cameras, cut-and-paste, >and the 'lasso tool', how are we to ever trust a photo, even a t>horoughly analysed one, again? >Are there ways of detecting these things? Without a negative? This is the modern version of a question I was asked perhaps 10 years ago by some documentary producer... with all the computer ability now available, how can we trust any photos (even photos printed on paper, which could be created from negatives created in a computer....)? The answer is, and always has been, hoax by photo can be done. Hang a model and photograph it works with the old, lame, but tried and true 'wet' photography as well as the 'cyberphotography'. The difference is that now one can 'hang a computer model' instead of a real, 3-D object. The Trents were accused of faking their photos. So what is new? Basically nothing. Have to be careful. Have to have investigation taking place over a long time... give hoaxer time to complain if there is nothing done with his/her photo. Etc. Smoked out a Gulf Breeze hoax this way (photos sent to newspaper were similar to Ed's... but anonymous... so we didn't do anything with them. Photographer called the newspaper... "why hasn't anything been done with my pix?" Told that the pix were not that interesting. Later he supplied more pix that were "more interesting." HAHAHAHAH Years later found out it was a TV cameraman, I believe, who did it... to prove a point of course!). The main lesson here is not the photo hoaxing, but the fact that some one is willing to undergo investigation, albeit not the best type (which is on-the-spot, face to face, etc.). As long as there are "disinformationists" around, we have to be very careful.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:48:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:38:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Kaeser >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Speaking Of Major Media >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:23:25 -0700 <snip> >Recently, here, someone mentioned that the major media outlets >do not cover UFOs in general. Or at least not as much as we may >like to see. It is true to some degree, but I know a colleague >back East who has done a mountain of large media interviews, so >they are interested, from time to time. > >Anyway, while I was out on the road today, my wife answered the >telephone and a lady from back East. Not sure but it may have >been from Ontario. If I am wrong someone can correct me. Anyway, >The National Post want to talk to me about has taken place here. >Now this is a major newspaper which goes right across Canada. >So it should be interesting to see what comes from the article >after I do the interview. >So we do have a major media out let (newspaper going to carry >the story of what is going on here in northern B.C. Good point, Brian. There is certainly interest in any story that is (in turn) of interest the viewers, listeners or readers. But when your contact publishes their stories, do they appear in the "News" or "Style" section of the paper (assuming this is print media)? Has a follow-up story been created for any interesting events that continue to be puzzling? Without some sort of "official" statement this isn't really a front page news story, unless the event is so massive that it cannot be ignored. Very few papers have the resources to perform major investigations into "soft" news, and is usually targeted toward more generalized subjects of interest to a broad range of people. One interesting facet of the F-16/UFO story from Maryland, now under investigation by MUFON and the Fund, is that there is still a lot of interest by the media. At least one major network has made contact and has sought far more details about UFOs than is involved in this one case, so I'm not sure what they hope to write. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:53:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:41:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight - >From: David Pengilly <davidpengilly@shaw.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:53:27 -0700 >Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight >>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:56:39 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: Crop Circle Documentary On TLC Tonight > >>I watched it. Hey, where were those debunkers? >>An excellent presentation. Even hoaxers admitted to seeing balls >>of light at night and to genuine crop formations. Now, would >>they please do one like that on Roswell. >I thought it was well done also. I didn't know that Dr. >Levengood also believed in Dr. Meaden's 'plasma vortices' >theory. >I can understand that theory with some of the formations, >especially the fractal formations such as the Julia Sets, but >not the 'human face', the 'Arecibo' formation or the 'eclipse' >series. Or are those supposed to be fakes? Hello Dave, Bill, I also found the TLC presentation to be a refreshing, perhaps unique, change from the usual debunking-infested programs. The History Channel had one of the latter, also on crop circles, at the same time on satellive TV. Yes, I think that Levengood has to assume that the complicated formations are all fakes. But it's pretty incredible to me that he, as a scientist, could assume that naturally occurring vortices of unknown cause could place even "simple" crop circles into neat geometric formations, or would concentrate their locations of occurrence in regions of English sacred sites and times of occurrence just post 1970s, or interweave laid down stems. In the TLC program, Nancy Talbott of the BLT team echoed Levengood's view, but perhaps that bit was taped before her own witnessing of the occurrence of a CC formation. From that event she must have learned that the "plasma vortex" descended not just once but twice, in blinding flashes of light, to carve out the pattern, which was more complex than just a circle. >I admit it was nice for the hoaxers to say that they had seen >balls of light and that they didn't fake them all, but maybe >that are just saying that to keep interest up! It would have >been better if they mentioned some of the more dramatic >formations and say, "We did not fake those ones!" Again, how >could we believe them anyway. >Very interesting, but still no answers. The key thing is that no hoaxing group has ever stepped forward to claim having made one of the more intriguing, complex formations, and then soon afterwards offer to make the same identical formation again, in a nearby field, this time under the eyes of witnesses. Actual CC hoaxers should be able to do even a better job the 2nd time around, after having the additional experience under their belts and being allowed to do it in daylight. For some reason this never happens! Regards, Jim Deardorff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 F-16 Scramble - Second Witness Followup From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:57:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:44:43 -0400 Subject: F-16 Scramble - Second Witness Followup The investigation into the July 26th event near Washington DC continues, with a second witness (who happens to be a MUFON Investigator) being interviewed by Fund investigator Joan Woodward. Details may be found at: http://www.fufor.com/report_020807.htm Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 CI: 'Inca City' Part of Enigmatic Semicircular From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:46:47 -0400 Subject: CI: 'Inca City' Part of Enigmatic Semicircular Cydonian Imperative 8-10-02 "Inca City" Part of Enigmatic Semicircular Formation by Mac Tonnies See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html A fascinating new image posted on Malin Space Science Systems' website shows the famous "Inca City" feature (sometimes confused with the "City" area in Cydonia by debunkers) comprising a small portion of an unusual semicircular arrangement. [image] Surprising new image of the "Inca City" in context. [image] Close-up of Inca City. Note dark spots. MSSS suggests we're seeing an unexplained circular feature, possibly caused by an ancient meteor impact. But the anomalous feature is clearly semicircular. If once circular, it's possible that the "missing" half has been covered by sand or otherwise "swallowed" by the landscape. Perhaps infrared imagery will reveal the assumed "missing" half, if it exists. Circular or semicircular, the "Inca Ring" could be an immense artificial structure of some kind. Personally, I find a natural explanation harder to accept if this feature is in fact "merely" semicircular. For more information on this unusual and controversial feature, see: "Life in the 'Inca City'?" on page 10. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Draft Of Top Secret UFO Memo Now Public From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@canada.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:50:03 -0400 Subject: Draft Of Top Secret UFO Memo Now Public Draft Of Top Secret UFO Memo Now Public Through the diligent research efforts of York University researcher Nick Balaskas, a draft of the original "Project Magnet" Top Secret Memo has been recovered from the Archives at the University of Ottawa. The Balaskas discovery not only backs up the contents of what was found in the Top Secret document declassified by the Canadian government in 1979, it adds two new pages to the three researchers were already aware of. Wilbert Smith, Senior Radio Engineer in the Canadian Department of Transport, wrote the original Top Secret memo to his superiors in November 1952. The memo was the beginning of the Canadian government official program to investigate flying saucer. Wilbert Smith headed up that investigation from December 1950 to August 1954. The existence of the Top Secret draft in the Wilbert Smith UFO files is part of the reason that the Canadian government was forced to declassify the Top Secret memo held in their files. Wilbert Smith left the draft in the files to give future researchers the truth of what had actually happened in the early days of government investigation into flying saucers. Dying of cancer, Smith made arrangement with his wife to hide the files so they would survive his death. "They will be coming to recover them," he told his wife Murl. As Smith predicted the Canadians, Americans, and Soviets approached Mrs. Smith requesting the files for research purposes. Mrs. Smith told all callers she no longer had the files. After a number of break-ins that might have been linked to the search for the files, the files were passed on to Arthur Bray, a local Ottawa researcher, who held them quietly for over two decades. Bray was aware of the Top Secret memo draft, but was unable to say anything because the copy in the Smith files was still marked Top Secret. Bray held a Navy security clearance and was forced to remain quiet. Bray, aware of what was in the files, did however lead the charge to force the government to release all the "Project Magnet" files held by the government. He wrote letters to government ministers and officials telling them where the files would be found. The "Project Magnet" Top Secret memo is the key document in the large Smith collection of UFO material, now stored in the archives at the University of Ottawa. In the memo, Smith outlined five key items about flying saucers that he had discovered while in discussions with top U.S. officials working on the flying saucer problem. These were: 1) The matter is the most highly classified subject in the United States Government, rating higher than even the H-bomb. 2) Flying saucers exist. 3) Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is being made by a small group headed by Vannevar Bush. 4) The entire matter is considered by the United States authorities to be of tremendous significance. 5) The United States authorities are investigating along quite a number of lines, which might possibly be related to the saucers such as mental phenomena. The two newly discovered pages of the November 1952 memo are titled "Project Magnet" and are classified in the draft as "Secret." The new pages read as follows: Purpose This project is for the purpose of studying magnetic phenomena, particularly those phenomena resulting from unusual boundary conditions in the basic electromagnetic field. There is reason to believe their discovery will open up a new and useful technology. Organization The initial organization shall be as small as practical and composed of personnel who are used to working together, including so far as possible a variety of research abilities. Laboratory facilities are to be drawn from existing facilities so far as possible. Overall responsibility for the project shall rest with the engineer-in-charge, who shall delegate such responsibility to subordinates as maybe required to carry out the project. Program The initial program shall include the following avenues of investigations, to which others may be added from time top time as may appear expedient. 1. Theoretical study of electromagnetic radiation assuming boundary conditions different from those upon which the conventional theory was developed. 2. Laboratory study of mechanical forces associated with electron drift and electric currents in metallic masses. 3. Theoretical and laboratory study of magnetic domain resonance conditions in magnetic materials. 4. Investigation of the propagation of magnetic wave motion in magnetic materials. 5. Investigate the possibility of producing, an effect, a "sink" in a magnetic field. 6. Investigate the possibility of producing, in effect, single isolated magnetic poles. 7. Investigate the effects of a magnetic field on a rotating curviplaner metallic object. Coordination Full coordination is to be maintained, within security regulations, with other groups working on a parallel or associated problems. Project reports will be available on a classified basis to suitably accredited groups of individuals. Security As in the case with most fields of research, it is impossible to assess the results in advance, which might be obtained through this project. However, there exist certain suspicions that the lesser-known and little explored aspects of magnetism may hold the key to a new and significant technology. Consequently, it is intended to classify this work in it entirety until such time as it can be assessed for its impact on our civilization. Full Document at: wwww.presidentialufo.com/top_secret_draft.htm The Presidents UFO Story www.presidentialufo.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Scientific Knowledge and UFOs From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:15:06 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:53:59 -0400 Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs In a recent thread the discussion came up about scientific knowledge and how it relates to the topic of UFOs. It would be worth while to observe that topics and material that are supposedly locked in stone, without a doubt, generally accepted as scientific, do in fact change. For example it was known/believed/theorized/taught as fact for many years that the universe was around 4.8 billion years old. Lo' and behold scientists get a picture from Hubble and tell us that the correct age of the universe is actually 12-14 or so billion years old. Adding 10-12 billion years on to the age of the universe is a rather extradordinary claim that in theory would require some sort of extradordinary evidence... right? Wrong. They made this pronouncement on the basis of photographic interpretation of photographs. In essence they claim to have found pockets of so called older matter in the photographs. Now one would expect the cronies at CSICOP to be all over that. After all, it was only based on photographic interpretation and no one actually has any so called physical evidence (such as a sample of this older matter that could be taken to independent labs and have rigirous testing on to verify that it in fact is older) to prove such an incredible claim. Now, had these same scientists advanced the claim solely on photographic interpretation that UFOs exist, the same skeptibunkers would be blathering about why we "need" physical evidence, why the evidence needs to be tested 20 times over at 20 different labs, why we can't trust photo interpretation etc etc. Now some Australian scientists have suggested/proposed that the speed of light is not consistant and the charge of an electron can change. It has not been pronounced as fact yet like the age of the Universe but it is heading in that direction. We have discussed in the past why the UFO subject essentially gets no or very little respect in the so called mainstream scientific community. It is up to _us_ to be the mainstream leaders on UFO and UFO related research. For example, Geologists only look at Geological issues, Meterologists only look at weather, Astronomers only look at the stars and so forth. Usually they tend to only be interested in some discovery in some other field _only_ if it has some application to something they are working on in their field. Bottom line is it is up to us. We also shouldn't spend a great deal of time trying to satisfy the skeptibunkers because they never will be satisfied. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Turning Around The Scientific Community From: David Jordt <JORDT@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:20:58 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:42:38 -0400 Subject: Turning Around The Scientific Community List, I just sent this off to FoxNews writer Ken Layne who has an interest in this stuff. ----- Ken, Many thanks your insightful and amusing response, and for taking the time for it when you have FoxNews and everybody awaiting your input. It's hard to instigate intelligent conversation on this topic with anybody liable to have an impact upon it. Your "insider's" look at the motives of the Newsies was enlightening but about as I imagined. Hard to beat the marketplace. I'll be happy to see a little less market control over this subject. Art Bell is totally shameless. I use him to stay awake on long night drives. I notice that his callers-in are more often than not bumpkins straight off the hog farm and themselves richly entertaining. I had the pleasure of hearing one of the respectable media crowd eat crow about UFOs: Tom Sullivan, opening his daily talk show on KFBK Sacramento sometime in Dec 2000. He was still excited and practically hyperventillating as he came on the air and spent altogether too much time giving face-saving disclaimers -- to those in the studio as well as us of the audio radiance -- like, "you aren't going to believe this," and, "I wouldn't kid about this sort of thing..." etc, etc. Before he even got to the subject I knew what he was going to talk about. He and his son had seen a "circular flying object" (he contrived every way he could to avoid calling it a "flying saucer") come silently wigwagging right over their house (the famous "falling leaf" motion I surmised), and on southward over Sacramento, then back again, then off westward when a plane came over, finally flashing off, leaving some kind of flame as I recall. He blew the next 10 minutes describing the event over and over, remembering little things, and asked anybody who could corroborate it to phone in. By the time I had to leave the radio there were two call-ins, one a Greyhound bus driver who'd seen it as he drove toward Sacramento from Tracy, one a lady on a ranch to the east of town. You might be interested to call Tom for some words about this. It sounded level to me. If it wasn't then here is a perfect case of manufactured corroboration and more wonky Americana. But even if valid it is only one more for an already overjammed and useless anecdotal archive. This stuff tends not to influence anybody of substance. A good sighting is of value only to the sighter. It provides the personal motivation for relentless pursuit. You can generally recognize those who have a sighting in their background by their long dedication to the subject in the apparent absence of objective proof. Hynek was one of these. And Clyde Tombaugh. So is Vallee. I suspect Friedman as well, and most of the other serious writers, though they may not fess up to it. Ask yourself, how could anyone of sane nature keep after a subject for decades without a shred of evidence to justify the expenditure of life? NASA scientist Paul Hill (the guy who designed the flying platform long time back, and the Ames Research hypervelocity rockets, and the P-47), had two significant corroborated UFO sightings over Chesapeak Bay, did systematic time and distance measurements on one of these, arriving at a calculated acceleration of 122g's over a 5-mile interval. Suddenly he realized that our traditional scientific prejudice against the idea of interstellar travel is only a failure to think at proper scale. Given sufficient power, a sustained high g loading could push a craft to .9999c in a relatively short time. Relativistic time expansion would then allow crossing many light years of space in only weeks or months ship's time. It inspired him to do a bunch of research and intensive calculation into the possible power and propulsion principles behind UFOs. He wrote this up in a book, Unconventional Flying Objects -- a scientific analysis, probably one of the most important books on this subject. I too am one of those who don't require anecdotes. I'm a minerals exploration geologist, newly retired, most of my career spent overseas in remote areas. I have an interest and compulsion to write about this subject because of a sighting 6 of us made on a rooftop in New Delhi at about 2AM on July 21, 1969. Chief Geologist of the AID India Hardrock Project, Dr. Richard Cooke, was present and he nailed one of these things with his 15 power Pentax binoculars for details the rest of us couldn't make out. 'These were controlled devices, so incontrovertibly a technology not of this planet that the reality of it made the mind swim. It was rather scarey. Once you have experienced this, your whole outlook changes. It's not like "well, we saw this here light in the sky and we reckoned it must be from Mars". The reality was more like: we seem to have a 1937 Studebaker, painted blue, and with a dent in its right front fender, parked on the lawn. Debunk that!. Of course the dedicated debunker has no trouble invoking Venus and satellites and ball lightning and meteors and coming away satisfied that he has solved yet another one. Well, leave them be, is my thinking. They're harmless. Unfortunate that their grasp of reality is so spavined. I confess to having been interested in UFOs before our sighting and collected articles and books on the subject and had even joined NICAP and APRO for a while. But starting with that sighting in 1969, I went through an ironic reverse twist. It was obvious to me that the subject no longer needed proof. I expected a government announcement presently and my interest in UFOs went more or less dead. No more books or articles collected. Nor did I re-up with NICAP or APRO. FOR 30 YEARS! Only since my retirement -- now that I have time to spend on this -- has my interest been reignited. It seems obvious to me that there has been something haywire with the information circuit at official levels. One could essay that it owes either to conspiracy or stupidity. Having been some years with State Dept and UN projects, I can suggest that it is more likely the latter. I feel a need to write on this, though my objective is less expansive than yours. I seek to design a strategy whereby the undivided interest of the scientific community can finally be arrested and turned around. I would like to change the initial assumption from: >logically and evidentially there ain't no such thing; >therefore why look? to logically and evidentially the >universe is, at high probability, crowded with entities >or machines from advanced civilizations; so how do we >go about detecting them? Such a simple extension of Fermi's Paradox wouldn't be the first time scientists have theorized that something must exist simply because it was logical, and gone looking for it and found it. Except that they haven't applied this yet to UFOs. Once the rationale strikes home it should start to attract some serious brain power. I must add that it is not apparent to me that SETI, trying to find ETs that have been traversing the universe for potentially billions of years, is liable to contribute much using the same radio technology we used to pull in Fibber McGee and Molly. One of the starting points for such a reorientation in thinking might be the following: What has gone incredibly unnoticed over the past couple of years are two developments that vastly change our concept of the universe, Fermi's Paradox, ETs, and the usefulness of wasting any further time haggling over the dreary list of ancient anecdotes and documentations. Simply, the scientific rules have changed. Change #1. A large body of accummulating scientific evidence suggests that independent, self-evolving and replicating, mechanical or genetically engineered thinking machines are the inevitable product of a technological civilization -- anybody's. For our civilization this development is estimated to begin in about the year 2030. For others it could have started anytime in the past 10 billion years and continued to evolve to the present. Change #2. The underappreciated fact that the Planetessimal Hypothesis for the origin of the solar system has in the past year bought the farm. For reason that the examination of stars out to a distance of 1000 light years has revealed that apparently 10% of the stars in our galaxy have associated planetary systems. That would amount to 30 billion planetary systems, any of which could have produced a technological civilization since 10 billion years ago (say 5 billion after the Big Bang)! It further implies that there is potentially a VLN (Very Large Number) of technological civilizations throughout the universe and that their self-replicating technological entities could have been multiplying and evolving for upwards of 10 billion years. The implications of this are enormous but again the scientific community seems immune to them. In order to create a planetary system, the Planetissimal Hypothesis required two stars in near collision, a statistical happenstance very near zero probability in a galaxy with only 300 billion stars and 10 billion years of time. For most of the 20th Century this made statistical sense of the supposition that ours was the only inhabited planet in the galaxy. The alternate theory is now the Nebular Hypothesis which suggests that planets are the natural biproduct of stellar formation from a gas cloud. Meaning that 30 billion planetary systems may be too small a number. If you are spinning up your research into this subject, two books matter: The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, Maj Edward Ruppelt, and Unconventional Flying Objects a scientific analysis, Paul Hill (cited above). Thanks again for the response, David Jordt Brownsville
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:03:44 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:57:35 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - White >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 >I define "scientific knowledge", or more correctly, "science >knowledge", as that knowledge obtained through the rigorous use >of the scientific method - to misquote Churchill, the _worst_ >method of obtaining knowledge of the universe...except for all >the others. _Today's_ Scientific Method _is_ the worst method for studying UFOs and all other phenomena which cannot be consistently re- created on demand by the experimenter. UFOlogy, in my opinion, can only be studied by the Scientific Method once the method is amended so that rules covering not consistently controllable phenomena are in place. Rules which are acceptable to a large majority of mainstream scientists. Today's scientific puzzles are often of the not _consistently_ recreate-able type. Obviously, alien civilizations have been able to do this or they would not be flying around our skies. Any reason humankind can't do the same? Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:48:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:38:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Kaeser >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Speaking Of Major Media >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:23:25 -0700 <snip> >Recently, here, someone mentioned that the major media outlets >do not cover UFOs in general. Or at least not as much as we may >like to see. It is true to some degree, but I know a colleague >back East who has done a mountain of large media interviews, so >they are interested, from time to time. > >Anyway, while I was out on the road today, my wife answered the >telephone and a lady from back East. Not sure but it may have >been from Ontario. If I am wrong someone can correct me. Anyway, >The National Post want to talk to me about has taken place here. >Now this is a major newspaper which goes right across Canada. >So it should be interesting to see what comes from the article >after I do the interview. >So we do have a major media out let (newspaper going to carry >the story of what is going on here in northern B.C. Good point, Brian. There is certainly interest in any story that is (in turn) of interest the viewers, listeners or readers. But when your contact publishes their stories, do they appear in the "News" or "Style" section of the paper (assuming this is print media)? Has a follow-up story been created for any interesting events that continue to be puzzling? Without some sort of "official" statement this isn't really a front page news story, unless the event is so massive that it cannot be ignored. Very few papers have the resources to perform major investigations into "soft" news, and is usually targeted toward more generalized subjects of interest to a broad range of people. One interesting facet of the F-16/UFO story from Maryland, now under investigation by MUFON and the Fund, is that there is still a lot of interest by the media. At least one major network has made contact and has sought far more details about UFOs than is involved in this one case, so I'm not sure what they hope to write. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 10 Re: Still More Details On Greek Sightings From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 04:41:00 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:43:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Still More Details On Greek Sightings Source: Kathimerini - Greece's International English Language Newspaper August 9, 2002 http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100016_09/08/2002_19661 Stig *** Farmer claims UFO landed in his field ** Residents of the village of Prini, near the town of Trikala in central Greece, claim an unidentified flying object landed in a nearby field early on Wednesday morning, destroying crops growing there. Athanassios Tsioukas, a local farmer, said he saw a huge circular flying object about 10 meters in diameter, and full of small holes, land in his field. It apparently left depressions in the soil of up to 20 centimeters. He ran to the local cafe to tell his neighbors, who all rushed to the scene. Children in a nearby village claimed they saw large flashes in the sky that moved in the direction of Tsioukas's field at the time of the alleged landing. Another farmer, Apostolos Patramanis, who was in his own field at the time, said he saw the large object land on Tsioukas's property. Locals say UFOs are regularly sighted in the area. **
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:32:42 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:53:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:15:06 EDT >Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs <snip> >Bottom line is it is up to us. We also shouldn't spend a great >deal of time trying to satisfy the skeptibunkers because they >never will be satisfied. That is a _major_ piece of wisdom! Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> From: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:08:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:55:15 -0400 Subject: Dave Pengilly - UFO*BC <dave@ufobc.ca> UFO*BC Website Updates - August 10, 2002 1) http://www.ufobc.ca/Sightings/recent.htm - Recently Reported BC Sightings - Thanks again to HBCC UFO and NUFORC. - We are actively investigating more cases - keep watching! 2) http://www.ufobc.ca/Experiencer/fairy.htm - "Not A Fairy Story" - Another "Experiencer" case from Graham Conway. 3) http://www.ufobc.ca/Store/fsrauctions.htm - To raise funds, UFO*BC auctions Flying Saucer Review issues! - Visit E-Bay to place a bid! 4) Interesting Links to other sites: - http://www.nidsci.org/articles/alexander/mothman.html A review of the "Mothman Prophesies". Very interesting! - http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2002/2002.html See the latest crop circles in England! - http://www.interior-news.com/ UFO sighting in Telkwa and Houston (lay on your right side to view picture)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:22:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:56:45 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:03:44 +0000 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 >>I define "scientific knowledge", or more correctly, "science >>knowledge", as that knowledge obtained through the rigorous use >>of the scientific method - to misquote Churchill, the _worst_ >>method of obtaining knowledge of the universe...except for all >>the others. >_Today's_ Scientific Method _is_ the worst method for studying >UFOs and all other phenomena which cannot be consistently re- >created on demand by the experimenter. UFOlogy, in my opinion, >can only be studied by the Scientific Method once the method is >amended so that rules covering not consistently controllable >phenomena are in place. Rules which are acceptable to a large >majority of mainstream scientists. >Today's scientific puzzles are often of the not >_consistently_ recreate-able type. >Obviously, alien civilizations have been able to do this or they >would not be flying around our skies. Any reason humankind can't >do the same? To be fair, repeatability is not required by the "Scientific Method". As you note, many of today's scientific puzzles cannot be called up on demand. All we can do is gather whatever evidence we can to try and explain it. Let's not toss the scientific method out the window quite yet. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Vike From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:11:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:59:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Vike >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:48:05 -0400 >Subject: Re: Speaking Of Major Media >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Speaking Of Major Media >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:23:25 -0700 ><snip> >>Recently, here, someone mentioned that the major media outlets >>do not cover UFOs in general. Or at least not as much as we may >>like to see. It is true to some degree, but I know a colleague >>back East who has done a mountain of large media interviews, so >>they are interested, from time to time. >>Anyway, while I was out on the road today, my wife answered the >>telephone and a lady from back East. Not sure but it may have >>been from Ontario. If I am wrong someone can correct me. Anyway, >>The National Post want to talk to me about has taken place here. >>Now this is a major newspaper which goes right across Canada. >>So it should be interesting to see what comes from the article >>after I do the interview. >>So we do have a major media out let (newspaper going to carry >>the story of what is going on here in northern B.C. >Good point, Brian. There is certainly interest in any story that >is (in turn) of interest the viewers, listeners or readers. But >when your contact publishes their stories, do they appear in the >"News" or "Style" section of the paper (assuming this is print >media)? Has a follow-up story been created for any interesting >events that continue to be puzzling? >Without some sort of "official" statement this isn't really a >front page news story, unless the event is so massive that it >cannot be ignored. Very few papers have the resources to perform >major investigations into "soft" news, and is usually targeted >toward more generalized subjects of interest to a broad range of >people. >One interesting facet of the F-16/UFO story from Maryland, now >under investigation by MUFON and the Fund, is that there is >still a lot of interest by the media. At least one major network >has made contact and has sought far more details about UFOs than >is involved in this one case, so I'm not sure what they hope to >write. Hi Steven Just on the latest sighting here in Telkwa, British Columbia, and the media. The Smithers Interior Newspaper ran the story on the front page, with photo of the witness who first reported the sighting, and one of myself. Actually it took up half of the newspaper at the top on the front page, the article continued on the next page. The reporter who wrote the story up is writing a follow up in this weeks issue of the paper. So very good coverage around here on this story. I would almost bet that a number of the other newspapers will carry the story this week as well. The whole chain, or Newspapers are owned by one large company, and all of the papers throughout the north, and heading into the south pick articles from one another's newspaper if they find them of interest. Just to give you an idea, for the last three week, newspapers up here, The Terrace Standard ran a full page story on me, and what has been going on around here. The Smithers Interior Newspaper also ran a large story a little while ago as well. The Houston Today, Lakes District news, Vanderhoof Newspaper, The Prince George Free Press, etc... all have been covering the UFO news. Now there is a national Television Channel coming to grab the story sometime late August, or early September, and now the National Post wants to know what is going on, they are phoning back Monday. CFTK T.V. has interviewed me a number of times for the news. CBC radio morning news program had me on talking UFOs in the area here. BVLD and other radio news stations have talked about it, using audio clips of myself yakking about the sighting in 2002. On and on it goes. So there is no shortage of coverage on all of this. Now some may ask, why am I receiving so many sighting reports ??? Then after reading the above, it is no wonder. The problem was, not to many people even knew there was a fellow investigating UFOs here in the north. Because of the media, people are watching T.V., reading newspapers, or listening to the radio , or an article on a fellow investigating UFOs in northern British Columbia. So this is one big reason why I have been receiving so many reports. The sightings have always been taking place, but almost everyone has told me, where do I report ? Some of course call the RCMP or T.V. or newspaper. But in most cases up here, the sightings were not followed up, as the papers in many cases did not pass the reports along to anyone. So they sat. Some did report the sighting to authorities. But again, it stopped there. It certainly is of interest to the general public. I have received a good number of calls, emails from folks just interested, and wanting to find out more about what I do, or what it is people are seeing. So the interest is there for sure. We are making front page news, which is great as everyone picking up the papers can't miss the story. Works good for me. - :))) So I would say, all around the north here in B.C. the media are really doing a good job on the UFO subject. I sure couldn't as for more. They cover everything I send to them, and always ask me to keep them updated in which I do. So once again, the media, at least for me have been awesome. Good hearing from you Steve, take care Brian BTW - Been out all afternoon. I interviewed two witnesses from Quick who watching the HUGE object pass by the home, in the short distance. This makes 9 witnesses to this one sighting. Correction also, I believe I had said there was 10 witnesses, there were only 9. Also I went to Smithers also today, not to far a part, interview two more people on a sighting they had around the same time as the July 29, sighting. The exact date is a big foggy, but there is a third witness who does know the exact date, so i will be interviewing her soon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 04:50:39 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:01:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Speaking Of Major Media - Goldstein >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:48:05 -0400 >Subject: Re: Speaking Of Major Media >>From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Speaking Of Major Media >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:23:25 -0700 ><snip> >>Recently, here, someone mentioned that the major media outlets >>do not cover UFOs in general. Or at least not as much as we may >>like to see. It is true to some degree, but I know a colleague >>back East who has done a mountain of large media interviews, so >>they are interested, from time to time. >>Anyway, while I was out on the road today, my wife answered the >>telephone and a lady from back East. Not sure but it may have >>been from Ontario. If I am wrong someone can correct me. Anyway, >>The National Post want to talk to me about has taken place here. >>Now this is a major newspaper which goes right across Canada. >>So it should be interesting to see what comes from the article >>after I do the interview. >>So we do have a major media out let (newspaper going to carry >>the story of what is going on here in northern B.C. >Good point, Brian. There is certainly interest in any story that >is (in turn) of interest the viewers, listeners or readers. But >when your contact publishes their stories, do they appear in the >"News" or "Style" section of the paper (assuming this is print >media)? Has a follow-up story been created for any interesting >events that continue to be puzzling? >Without some sort of "official" statement this isn't really a >front page news story, unless the event is so massive that it >cannot be ignored. Very few papers have the resources to perform >major investigations into "soft" news, and is usually targeted >toward more generalized subjects of interest to a broad range of >people. >One interesting facet of the F-16/UFO story from Maryland, now >under investigation by MUFON and the Fund, is that there is >still a lot of interest by the media. At least one major network >has made contact and has sought far more details about UFOs than >is involved in this one case, so I'm not sure what they hope to >write. Hi Listerions, It is interesting that there is sustained media with the F-16UFO case in the nation's capital. Did you see the multiple reports of lighted chevrons over California within a half hour in the most recent Filer's Files? I sent an email to Don Waldrop, who heads LA MUFON and asked him to put what he knows about it on here. Bill Hamilton has been their director of research. Bill, what do you know about these reports? I hope this is being investigated. On a final note. As most of you know, for a long time I have felt about the same as John Velez , Dick Hall, and Steve Kaeser regarding running poseurs like John Lier and Derrell Sims out of town on a rail for the good of Ufology. If I was not such a nice guy I would suggest that the most respected researchers form a grand jury and also be the judge of such ilk. Their decision would be carried out by a covert, reverse men in black team who would scare the bejeezus out of those ilk by showing up unannounced at their homes in a black helicopter. Periodic helicopter buzzing of those homes would keep the culprits quiet in the future. We must cleanse this field of such ilk. This is a planetary ilkness. Josh
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 00:44:55 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:03:21 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants >I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >ago. >The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >(public) attention. Its a question many of us have been asking/wondering about as well since Lier/Sims showed up on the scene. Alot of surgery, alot of talk, a few photos and nadda, zip nothing...unless of course you go to Laughlin or some of the other UFO lecture circuit favorites. >How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures >before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a >proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm >talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been >retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. An absolutly excellent question. >Both Lier and Sims both promised to publish any analysis results >in peer review journals when they were attempting to justify the >unusual elective surgical procedures. Never happened. Nothing >has ever been published in any medical or scientific journals >that I know of. I am sure that Lier and Sims would have some kind of story about how the editors of the various journals did not want to publish the story, blah blah blah. >Oh sorry, Dr. Lier wrote and marketed a book about it. And... oh >yeah, he's been busy making the rounds of the UFO lecture >circuit and mass media for the last five years. Gee, doesn't that count as peer reviewed scientific research....? :) >I can say that much for his 'accomplishments.' >But... what benefit has there been for the abductees? How much >more do we know now, 20+ surgeries later, than we knew five >years ago? Not much, other then what you get in the book. <snip> >Once again I ask... "How many _more_ have to undergo invasive >surgery before enough becomes enough?" These are after all, >human beings we're discussing, not cattle. Does it bother >anybody else? It is rather disturbing. >We desperately need some kind of peer review and oversight >committee in ufology. (As a burgeoning science that it is.) An >ethics committee at the very least is needed immediately. For >witness protection if nothing else. Someone to look into this >kind of 'human experimentation' and to raise a red flag high >(publicly) when something like this surgical 'implant recovery >'business' is in the proposal stages. And don't kid yourself, >there _is_ a very real 'business' aspect to it all. If you don't >think that $ changed hands in order to insure that Bigelow's >NIDS got first crack at any recovered items, then you're too >naive to live. Was there ever some kind of Lier/Sims to NIDS research connection? If there was it could be they are gagged by confidentiality agreements similar to the ones the press reported the former Utah ranch owners were bound by. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Sanchez-Ocejo From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:46:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 12:05:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Sanchez-Ocejo >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:15:06 EDT >Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >Bottom line is it is up to us. We also shouldn't spend a great >deal of time trying to satisfy the skeptibunkers because they >never will be satisfied. It is clear to us that the future of mankind depends upon scientific knowledge. But, there is a flow away from science in colleges and universities. Some of the reasons are the scientist themselves. For some, called "egghead", science has itself become a kind of religion or a cult. For them, "the scientific method" is inflexible, and in that formal way they neglect creativity. This "eggheads" only think that unidentified flying objects are space vehicles sent to the earth from elsewhere in the universe and did not accept any reasonable alternative. Some limitations of this "egghead" are the lack of objectivity and interpretation. For them, UFOlogists are a bunch of fools, crude hoaxes and scientific illiterates. UFOs is a nonsense problem, a news media phenomenon. It doesn't bother them to read the Journal of Scientific Exploration, the Physical Evidence Related to UFO Reports or Les OVNI et la Defense: A quoi doit-on se preparer? (Cometa Report). "Eggheads" also work for RAND Corporation, NASA, CIA, FBI, Air Force and other government agencies. They are the one responsable for filling the sea and sky with toxins, turned individuals into numbers, automated workers out of jobs, replace ethical issues with game theory and build foreign policy around the logic of war (Theodore Roszak, The Making of a Counter Culture, 1969). They where ridiculous wasting taxpayer's dollars on NASA's SETI project. Fortunately, the SETI program was privatized. With the different aspects and possibilities of the UFO problem; involving astronomers, physicists, sociologists, etc., scientists should, instead, came with a series of predictions, tests with adequate controls and creative hypotheses. To correct this, the American Association for the Advancement of Science should conduct a Symposia on UFOs like the one they did on December 1968 in Dallas, Texas, organized by Carl Sagan and Thornton Page, separating UFOlogy from the real pseudo-science like astrology and so forth. Now on CSICOP; Their presumption is that UFOs cannot exist. They believe to have the exclusive possession on the truth, that people who believe in UFOs are morons, that UFOlogists should listen to them. CSICOP fellows are dismissive and close-mined. There are no rectification for them. Regards, Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 HBCC UFO - Smithers, British Columbia, Canada From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 00:25:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:07:41 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO - Smithers, British Columbia, Canada This sighting was reported both to me and the Smithers Interior Newspaper just after the major sighting by 9 witnesses on July 29, 2002. I interview the witnesses below plus two witnesses for the July 29 sighting today, August 10, 2002. Smithers, British Columbia, Canada Date: approx: July 28 - 31, 2002 Time: Between 10:00 & 11:00 a.m. Daylight sighting: (From the sounds of things, this sighting took place close to the July 29, 2002 sighting in Telkwa, Houston, Quick and Smithers, British Columbia. I hope to have the exact date from the third witness.) There are three witnesses to this sighting in Smithers, B.C.. I have talked to two of the folks who watched the object, and waiting to hear from the third, and will update when I do. The first report below is from witness number #1: I talked with a gentleman today, August 10, 2002 about a sighting which was reported to me and the Smithers Interior Newspaper. I asked of course what it was he had witnessed. This fellow is a logging contractor in the area and seems to be a very truthful man. He actually was very surprised and for the life of him, still can't figure out what it was he saw. His description of the object: He said it looked like an oak barrel in shape and made of metal , he guessed the object was approx: 15 feet in height and 10 feet across. From his vantage point (approx: 2000 feet away - altitude). He said there were two projections sticking out from the center of the object, approx: three feet a part and darker in color away from the main body of the craft. The fellow said it had quite a remarkable speed to it, in his estimation the craft was cursing at approx: 300 kilometers which was faster than the small aircraft they see in the area. Also he said there was no sound from the object and it did pass right overhead of him. It flew along side the Smithers airport heading in a southwesterly direction. He described the object as being metallic in color. And again said it was darker in the middle and rotating in the center. ----------------------------- Witness #2 A friend called me outside to look at something as she was very excited. The witness said she did not see it right away. She explained that she looked and looked around in the area where her friend was pointing, and went on to say it was like she had to get her eyes focused to see it. The object was at the right of the airport flying in a southwesterly direction. She said the object was diffidently round in shape and silver (metallic) in color. While they were watching this object, it up and disappeared instantly. I asked approximately what the size of the object may have been. She said it would have been close to the size of a normal wall clock at a approximate distance of a kilometer and a half away. I asked this her the date the event took place, she said her friend (deleted by HBCC UFO) would know for sure. But she guesses it would have been around two weeks ago. (Investigators Note: If the time frame is correct, then the object they seen would have been right around the same time (July 29, 2002) in which 9 witnessed, in different locations watched a HUGE glowing object fly down the valley. She also said there no sound coming from the object. --------- Witness #3 Still to come: -------------------- Take care Brian HBCC UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Fertile Imaginations From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:32:29 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:09:40 -0400 Subject: Fertile Imaginations The Washington Post's surprisingly unbiased report on crop circle phenomenon. Source: The Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1177-2002Aug9.html Stig Agermose *** Fertile Imaginations The Real Story of Those Mysterious Circles Runs Rings Around the Movie By Peter Carlson Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, August 10, 2002; Page C01 ** Suddenly, crop circles are hot. They're hip. They're not just for New Age neo-Druid saucer freaks anymore. "Signs," the new Mel Gibson movie, has caused a stampede of media interest in the mysterious markings that have appeared in farm fields all over the world. But Colin Andrews, the crop circle researcher who served as a consultant to the filmmakers, isn't too thrilled with the flick. "I was personally just a wee bit disappointed," he says. "Signs" is entertaining, Andrews admits, but it's not nearly as interesting as the real story of crop circles. He may be right. The movie has Gibson and Joaquin Phoenix and a couple of cute kids and some aliens. But the real story has hoaxers, hustlers, mystics, scientists, pseudo-scientists, avant- garde artists, Stonehenge, UFOs and mysterious energy balls, as well as the eccentric nonagenarian philanthropist Laurance S. Rockefeller. It also has Andrews, 56, a British electrical engineer who has written two books on crop circles and whose dogged research methods include using Rockefeller's money to hire private detectives to chase conceptual artists across the British countryside by the light of the silvery moon. A movie that told the real story of crop circles would be a zany farce. Mel Gibson wouldn't be right for it. He's far too serious. Mike Myers, call your agent. It all began in the late 1970s, when strange circles began appearing in fields of grain in the countryside of southern England, not far from Stonehenge. Inside the circles, crops -- usually wheat or barley or oats -- were flattened to the ground by some mysterious force that bent but did not kill the plants. At first, nobody paid much attention. But by the early 1980s, the circles were getting larger -- 20, 50, 100 feet across -- and sometimes clusters of a half-dozen or more would appear in the same field overnight. The media took notice, and the resulting publicity attracted scads of mystics and scientists. The mystics claimed the circles were caused by UFOs or by cosmic energy or by Gaea, the goddess of Mother Earth. The scientists claimed they were caused by freak weather conditions or, believe it or not, by the mating dance of sex-crazed hedgehogs running in frenzied circles. Both groups agreed on one thing: The circles couldn't have been created by humans working under cover of darkness during a short British night. In the late 1980s, Terrence Meaden, a physics professor and amateur meteorologist, advanced a theory that seemed to explain the phenomenon. The circles were caused, Meaden said, by plasma vortexes -- electrified whirlwinds that formed high in the atmosphere, then swooped down to the ground, spinning the grain into flattened circles. Meaden's theory seemed plausible for a while. But then crop circles changed. The newer ones were far more complex. Farmers arose to find their fields decorated with squares, stars, peace symbols and elaborate designs that looked like keys or IUDs or that weird glyph that rock singer Prince adopted as his new, unpronounceable name. Meaden insisted that even these ornate "agriglyphs" could have been caused by his plasma whirlwinds. But that seemed so implausible that he found himself viciously mocked by the British media. "He was so ridiculed," Andrews says. "I did feel a certain sympathy for him as a human being. But his theory was not a credible solution to the mystery." As the crop circles grew more elaborate, they became tourist attractions. Travelers visiting Stonehenge detoured for helicopter rides over the mysterious glyphs. Farmers began charging admission to the circles, and tourists with a mystical bent would sit cross-legged in them, meditating. Some people reported that they heard weird "trilling" sounds and saw saucers or balls of light while sitting in the glyphs at night. Other folks reported that proximity to the circles caused their cameras to malfunction and their dogs to panic and vomit. As the mystery deepened, crop circles were discussed in Parliament and debated on television. They were the subject of dozens of books and countless magazine articles. And they began appearing outside England -- in Holland, Germany, Japan, Canada. A few appeared in the United States, too, but not many, especially when you consider our fabled stretches of amber waves of grain. Even today, more than 90 percent of the 10,000 reported crop circles have appeared within 50 miles of Stonehenge. Then, in 1991, two elderly chaps told the British newspaper Today that they were responsible for the crop circles. Doug Bower and Dave Chorley claimed they'd started making the circles as a prank one Friday night in 1978 after downing a few pints at a pub in Wiltshire, near Stonehenge. Over 13 years, they'd created more than 1,000 glyphs, they said, and copycats had done the rest. To prove their point, they created a crop circle while a reporter watched. It was a simple process. They set up a pole with a string attached to the top. They pulled the string taut and walked in a circle. That created the perimeter. Then they flattened the grain inside the circle by pushing wooden planks around. When they finished, the newspaper summoned Patrick Delgado, a prominent crop circle researcher. Delgado inspected the circle and issued his learned opinion: "No human being could have done this," he said. "These crops are laid down in these sensational patterns by an energy that remains unexplained and is of a high level of intelligence." Delgado, like Meaden before him, became a laughingstock. And "Doug and Dave" -- as the pranksters are invariably called -- became national folk heroes. But many people -- including Andrews -- didn't believe the mystery was solved. "Doug and Dave certainly did make some of them," Andrews says. "But we know they didn't make them all. Many farmers tell you they had circles in the '60s. An elderly man told me he had circles in his field in 1923 and 1924 -- as noted in his diary." So the circles kept their hold on the public imagination. Mystics and scientists continued to visit them. Artists got into the act. So did Laurance Rockefeller. Enter the Artists "Unlike UFOs, crop circles are tactile," says John Lundberg. "You can go stand in them. You can touch them. You can't touch a UFO." Lundberg, 33, is a London-based conceptual artist who specializes in crop circles. His group, Circlemakers, has made dozens of elaborate agriglyphs in southern England over the last 11 years, he says, most of them created secretly, under cover of darkness. First, the artists create elaborate patterns on a computer -- "like architectural drawings" -- then, working in teams of as many as 10 people, they re-create them on some unsuspecting farmer's field. Their biggest was more than 500 feet long, Lundberg says. He won't say where it was. The Circlemakers refuse to identify any individual crop circle as their creation. "That," he says, "would drain it of all its mystery." He prefers that people who see the circle dream up their own stories of how it was made. That way, he says, they are collaborating in the project. "It's a mass-participation artwork," he explains. "It's not just the pattern-making, it's the whole reaction to it. We collaborate with the media and the public. . . . The circles have become huge Rorschach tests writ large on the fields of England." Lundberg and the Circlemakers are eager to take crop circles into pop culture. They maintain an elaborate Web site (www.circlemakers.org), and they've created crop circles for use in ads for Weetabix crackers and Mountain Dew. They also sell crop circle postcards, T-shirts and how-to manuals. This activity is regarded as blasphemy by mystics who see crop circles as religious objects. Consequently, Lundberg says, he has received hundreds of nasty e-mails. "I'm a heretic," he says. "I'm attacking their belief system." The mystics aren't the only folks who dislike Lundberg's shtick. Andrews sees the Circlemakers as hoaxers who trivialize crop circles by making people believe that they are all human creations. "I wish John and his band of merry men would just disappear," Andrews says. Four years ago, Andrews received a grant from Rockefeller to fund his research on crop circles. The grant was in the "five- figure range," says Rockefeller spokesman Fraser Seitel. Andrews promptly spent a chunk of it to hire private detectives to tail Lundberg's group. Andrews wanted to find out if the Circlemakers were really making circles. The detectives put the artists under surveillance, followed them into a farmer's field in the dead of night and filmed them as they went about their work. "These individuals were monitored," Andrews says, "and there is no doubt that they created some extremely complex and beautiful designs." Back to the Vortex "Think of a great big plastic beach ball," Nancy Talbott says. "Now picture a bunch of tennis balls inside it." Talbott is explaining her theory about crop circles. She used to be a country music promoter, but now she's the president of BLT Research Team Inc., a Massachusetts-based group that studies crop circles. BLT has collected plant and soil samples from around the world, she says, and its scientists concluded that the circles were caused by some mysterious heat source -- possibly "an energy that's completely unknown to science now." Talbott, 63, touts a theory that's close to Meaden's much-mocked plasma whirlwind hypothesis. If you ask how whirlwinds can create complex glyph shapes, she talks about the beach ball with the tennis balls inside. The beach ball is a swirling vortex of electrified air. The tennis balls are smaller swirling vortexes inside the bigger one. As they all spin around atop a field of grain, she postulates, you get those glorious glyphs. In 1999, BLT received a grant from Rockefeller. BLT's grant -- like the one given to Andrews -- was in the "five-figure range," says Seitel, Rockefeller's spokesman. Now 92, Rockefeller declined to discuss the grants, but Seitel explains that they are part of the philanthropist's "eclectic" interests. "He's interested in spiritual matters like this," Seitel says. "He funded a study of UFOs that was done by a group led by the wife of a former ambassador to England from the Reagan administration -- or maybe it was the Ford administration." Meanwhile, Talbott says that BLT has studied 300 crop circles and concluded that 92 percent of them were created not by humans but by the mysterious energy force. That's balderdash, says Joe Nickell, 57, a researcher for the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. "Approximately 100 percent of crop circles are man-made," Nickell says. "Note that I said approximately. I haven't inspected every one, and we have to allow for dogs chasing their tails and other phenomena." When dueling crop circle theorists start talking numbers, Colin Andrews comes down in the middle. He estimates that about 80 percent of the circles are created by humans. "Eighty percent are complete nonsense," he says. "But there's still 20 percent, in my estimation, that we haven't been able to determine. Those 20 percent are almost always simple designs, and there are no footprints and no damage to the plants. . . . In some of these, there was a mind involved, a thought process involved." Does that mean aliens? "I can't say that it's extraterrestrials," he says. "I don't know who the being is." When it comes to extraterrestrials, Andrews gets some support from an unexpected source -- his old nemesis, John Lundberg, the Circlemaker artist. "I'm just as much a believer as the next man," Lundberg writes in an e-mail. "In fact, we did see a classic UFO -- a dark, silent, cigar-shaped craft with tiny strobe lights at each end - - whilst out making circles in Wiltshire a couple of years ago. Four of us witnessed it as it slowly arced across a clear star- lit sky." So the controversy continues. Now, with "Signs" packing movie theaters across the country, we can expect to find more circles dotting the U.S. landscape. If you absolutely must make a glyph in your neighbor's grain, Lundberg has some advice: "Don't get too complex. Do something simple. Take your time. Do it right so it's not just a mess." And one other thing: No drinking. "You have to be stone-cold sober to create a crop circle," he says. "Otherwise you get wonky lines." Researcher Karl Evanzz contributed to this report. ** =A9 2002 The Washington Post Company
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Turning Around The Scientific Community - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:01:59 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:13:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Turning Around The Scientific Community - >From: David Jordt <JORDT@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:20:58 EDT >Subject: Turning Around The Scientific Community >I just sent this off to FoxNews writer Ken Layne who has an >interest in this stuff. >----- > >Ken, > >Many thanks your insightful and amusing response, and for taking >the time for it when you have FoxNews and everybody awaiting >your input. It's hard to instigate intelligent conversation on >this topic with anybody liable to have an impact upon it. >Your "insider's" look at the motives of the Newsies was >enlightening but about as I imagined. Hard to beat the >marketplace. I'll be happy to see a little less market control >over this subject. <snip> >A good sighting is of value only to the sighter. It provides the >personal motivation for relentless pursuit. You can generally >recognize those who have a sighting in their background by their >long dedication to the subject in the apparent absence of >objective proof. Hynek was one of these. And Clyde Tombaugh. So >is Vallee. I suspect Friedman as well, and most of the other >serious writers, though they may not fess up to it. Ask >yourself, how could anyone of sane nature keep after a subject >for decades without a shred of evidence to justify the >expenditure of life? WHOA!! I have never ever had a UFO sighting. To say there is not a shred of evidence is frankly absurd. Testimony is evidence, landing trace cases are evidence, multiple witness radar visual cases are evidence, abductions with subsidiary info such as marks on bodies, the Hill Star map, etc are evidence. I spend the first portion of my "Flying Saucers ARE Real" lecture dealing with 5 large scale scientific studies covering loads of evidence. Fewer than 2% of the people in my audiences, which have included over 600 colleges and over 100 professional groups, have read any of these sources. I deal with specifics. I show pictures of nuclear rocket engines and the Star Map and raise the objections of the debunkers and demolish them with evidence, data, facts.I derive great satisfaction from the enthusiastic response of my audiences and especially from the thoughtful questions they pose at the end of my programs. Most of what we know about the world is based on other people's testimony. It is clear that I and other professionals espousing an alien origin for some UFOs also perform a mental health function by providing a safe ear for stories of personal experiences That I haven't been to Tokyo nor seen a black hole doesn't mean they don't exist. <snip> >Such a simple extension of Fermi's Paradox wouldn't be the first >time scientists have theorized that something must exist simply >because it was logical, and gone looking for it and found it. >Except that they haven't applied this yet to UFOs. Once the >rationale strikes home it should start to attract some serious >brain power. >I must add that it is not apparent to me that SETI, trying to >find ETs that have been traversing the universe for potentially >billions of years, is liable to contribute much using the same >radio technology we used to pull in Fibber McGee and Molly. >One of the starting points for such a reorientation in thinking >might be the following: >What has gone incredibly unnoticed over the past couple of years >are two developments that vastly change our concept of the >universe, Fermi's Paradox, ETs, and the usefulness of >wasting any further time haggling over the dreary list ofancient >anecdotes and documentations. >Simply, the scientific rules have changed. >Change #1. A large body of accummulating scientific evidence >suggests that independent, self-evolving and replicating, >mechanical or genetically engineered thinking machines are the >inevitable product of a technological civilization -- anybody's. >For our civilization this development is estimated to begin in >about the year 2030. For others it could have started anytime in >the past 10 billion years and continued to evolve to the >present. >Change #2. The underappreciated fact that the Planetessimal >Hypothesis for the origin of the solar system has in the past >year bought the farm. For reason that the examination of stars >out to a distance of 1000 light years has revealed that >apparently 10% of the stars in our galaxy have associated >planetary systems. That would amount to 30 billion planetary >systems, any of which could have produced a technological >civilization since 10 billion years ago (say 5 billion after the >Big Bang)! It further implies that there is potentially a VLN >(Very Large Number) of technological civilizations throughout >the universe and that their self-replicating technological >entities could have been multiplying and evolving for upwards of >10 billion years. The implications of this are enormous but >again the scientific community seems immune to them. >In order to create a planetary system, the Planetissimal >Hypothesis required two stars in near collision, a statistical >happenstance very near zero probability in a galaxy with only >300 billion stars and 10 billion years of time. For most of the >20th Century this made statistical sense of the supposition that >ours was the only inhabited planet in the galaxy. > >The alternate theory is now the Nebular Hypothesis which >suggests that planets are the natural biproduct of stellar >formation from a gas cloud. Meaning that 30 billion planetary >systems may be too small a number. >If you are spinning up your research into this subject, two >books matter: >The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, Maj Edward Ruppelt, >and >Unconventional Flying Objects a scientific analysis, Paul Hill >(cited above). >Thanks again for the response, I discuss Fermi's Paradox and other aspects of the SETI vs UFOs conflict in my paper "UFOS: Challenge to SETI Specialists" which should be in the current issue of the MUFON Journal, in the internet Journal "New Frontiers of Science" and is on my website at: www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 363 From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@libero.it> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 16:44:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:14:52 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 363 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 363 - 26 JULY 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - The Embla 2002 Mission Begins - The Vesco Archive Moves Its Headquarters - The Caponi Case Becomes A Book THE EMBLA 2002 MISSION BEGINS As previously announced, the Embla 2002 Mission is on its way as of the First of August, with the departure of the first two reserachers from the Italian Committee for Project Hessdalen. There will be as many as nine Italians who, also this summer for the third consecutive year, will take turns down in the Norwegian valley upgrading the hardware and software resources of the stations surveying recurring luminous phenomena which, for over twenty years, have been an object of study in the area. This in advance of a possible expedition over the winter months, when the phenomena appears to be more frequent. But the Italian Committee, created in 2000 upon the initiative of some CISU members, has as its scope not just the organization of missions in Norway: its commitment now involves ongoing activity such as seminars, meetings, the development of new instrumentation and, in particular, the realization of a portable instrumented surveillance mini-station and the identification of other locations where the appearance of recurring luminous phenomena are reported. To continue financing these activities, the Committee has launched a new appeal, turning in particular to the Italian ufological community for the raising of funds and economic contributions (www.itacomm.net). [Communication by Renzo Cabassi] THE VESCO ARCHIVE CHANGES ITS HEADQUARTERS Upon the heels of the inauguration of the new Turin headquarters of the Italian Center for UFO Studies, this week saw the undertaking and the completion of the transfer of the entire "Vesco Archives" into its new quarters. As already reported, the entire library and the personal archives (ufological, aeronautical, archaeological and about other related subjects), gathered over the previous 50 years by the Genoa researcher Renato Vesco, were left by him to the CISU following his death in 1999; but the extent of such a collection created not a few problems when it came to its relocation, or storage and the browsing of the materials, which covered very many cubic meters. Following the initial undertaking of an overall inventory, the archive (saved from certain destruction) had remained stacked in a warehouse, a situation which impeded a full examination of it. With the transfer now completed, it will finally be possible to proceed over the next few months with the opening of more than 360 boxes, as well as the classification and subdivision of publications and documents in particular, separating out the sections concerning UFOs and unconventional aeronautic materials so as to better facilitate their consultation by interested students. [Collaboration by Giuseppe Stilo.] THE CAPONI CASE BECOMES A BOOK The Milan publishing house Le Vespe has published the book written by Filiberto Caponi, "sE Torni made vivo" (roughly translated, "If You Return, ET, Make Yourself Known") (117 pages, 8.50 Euro), in which the author recounts his version of the facts as witness to the celebrated close encounter with a small humanoid being in 1993 in Pretare di Arquata, in the Marche region. The case reverberated Internationally as a result of the photos taken by the young man of the being, which were published in the newspapers and spotlighted on television; but then, these were confiscated by the judge with the incrimination of the witness, after he admitted having fabricated them. Some years later, Caponi showed up again in the public eye, maintaining that the photos were authentic and that he had been forced to declare them as being fake. Some ufologists have sided with his version among these, in particular, the Englishman Timothy Good, who dedicated a good part of his latest book, "Rivelazioni da altri mondi" ("Revelations From Other Worlds"), to the case while most investigators has remained skeptical. The UPIAR Book Service has acquired a certain quantity of copies of the book for CISU members, who may purchase it for 10 Euro (cost of shipping included). Collaborators on this edition were: Renzo Cabassi and Giuseppe Stilo. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:49:29 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:47:28 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Young >From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:01:52 -0400 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Certainly we need to have a skeptical viewpoint when dealing >with phenomena that we cannot easily identify, but we don't >need to have a dogmatic skeptical viewpoint. Steve: If you are able to show that a "dogmatic" skeptic is wrong, why should it matter? You are demanding that the skeptics agree with your view that one (or more) UFO incidents are TRUFOS, aren't you? Either you have evidence acceptable to a majority of scientists or you don't. The view of one or more skeptics shouldn't matter, if they can be shown to be wrong. The onus is on the proponents of TRUFOS to make your case. <snip> >IMO, the genre won't gain credibility among traditional >scientists until it >1 - Defines the discipline under study >2 - Establishes rules of evidence as they pertain to that discipline >3 - Establishes a peer review process in the publication of Journal Don't the Journal of UFO Studies and the Journal of Scientific Exploration qualify? How many more do you need? Clear skies, Bob Young One of the distinguishing characteristics of "pseudo-science" is that the passage of time NEVER provides increased knowledge or understanding of the basic phenomenon. --Philip J. Klass, Skeptics UFO Newsletter #71, September 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:14:42 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:48:55 -0400 Subject: JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:50:37 -0400 >Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 <snip> >JUFOS is still published on an irregular basis. Unfortunately, I >believe the Journal is not supported by its sales and requires >an influx of cash (i.e. donations) to get another publication >out the door. >Another journal that comes to mind is the Journal of Scientific >Exloration (JSE), which often has articles of interest to those >in this genre. >Unfortunately, neither is widely distributed beyond the >recipients who have purchasesd individual copies Steve: But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:17:23 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:50:05 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Young >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:59:04 -0400 >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >I certainly agree, but we're really talking about "paradigm >shifting" evidence that would have to be very solid, if our goal >is to prove extraterrestrial visitation. Steve: Is this the same as saying that there is, currently, no acceptable scientific evidence for ET visitation? Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 11 CCCRN News: Possible Formations - Redvers, From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:52:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:51:56 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Possible Formations - Redvers, CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 11, 2002 _____________________________ CROP WATCH 2002 POSSIBLE FORMATIONS - REDVERS, SASKATCHEWAN There is a report of two circles or formations north of Redvers, Saskatchewan. Reported by two callers to the Peter Warren radio program (broadcast across western Caanda) shortly before a CCCRN interview a few days ago. No other details available yet. Redvers is in one of the crop circle 'hot zones', the same general region in southeast Saskatchewan as other previous reports from Midale, Moosomin, Esterhazy, Rocanville, Spy Hill, Grenfell, Willmar, etc. After finally resolving some technical glitches, the temporary copy of the Crop Circles in Canada 2002 page has now been placed here on the primary (and more steady) Look Communications server: http://www.webhome.idirect.com/~psa/circlescanada02.html Also the media page with current updated links and listings, with numerous newspaper/web articles and radio/TV programs including Unsolved Mysteries, featuring the Canadian crop circles which aired on Lifetime in the US on August 2, 2002: http://www.webhome.idirect.com/~psa/media.html The entire web site will be upgraded in this manner, as soon as the domain name can be secured and other necessary costs covered. In the meantime, the (other) main web site: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada will be back online next week (hopefully for good!) after those upgrades are complete. Thank you for your understanding and patience. Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field investigations and studies of formations, aerial surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public and the media, in particular during the prime August / September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: psa@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 12 F-16 'Chase' Near Andrews AFB And Waldorf, MD From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:23:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:55:29 -0400 Subject: F-16 'Chase' Near Andrews AFB And Waldorf, MD Those who are in the July 26th event can find the most recent information compiled by the Fund for UFO Research on their web site: http://www.fufor.com/news.htm I would like to thank Paul Nahay for his efforts in keeping the site up to date, as well as others who have submitted information in our quest for truth. As additional information becomes available it will be posted as well. Steve Kaeser Executive Committee Fund for UFO Research
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 12 Subject: HBCC UFO Witnessed Part I From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:03:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:45:15 -0400 Subject: Subject: HBCC UFO Witnessed Part I Howdy What I am doing, is to write the reports and send them out as I go along. Below is the report from Mr. Gordon Stewart over the July 29, 2002 sighting in the Telkwa area. To my surprise I received a report from Mrs. Stewart as well, which was of a sighting she had two months prior to the July 29th sighting. Please keep in mind this is only one of the witnesses for the July 29th sighting. There are 8 other witnesses to hear from, and I will be writing up each of their reports as time permits (I have a lot of reports other than this case to write up). But I will be keeping on it. Everyone has been interviewed, except for a small party who had already left Smithers heading back home. I have their phone numbers and will be contacting them within a few days. So this first up, is from Mr. Gordon Stewart. Houston & Telkwa British Columbia Date: July 29, 2002 Time: approx: 10:30 - 10:45 p.m. In the following report there is mention of two names out of the 9 witnesses (Only one of these names - Mr. Stewart goes with the July 29th sighting, Mrs. Stewart has a separte report). Mr. Gordon Stewart is his real name, and the only reason I am placing his name to my report is due to the Interior Newspaper received permission from the witness to print the information, other wise I would have left the name out from my report. Although I had permission to use some of the other witnesses names, I choose not to place their personal information in my report, a policy HBCC UFO sticks to. Location information - Gordon's farm: (Telkwa, British Columbia, Canada) - The witness owns 160 acres of farming land, treed with Spruce, Aspen and Pine in areas, with a good number of acres in Hay fields. This supports his 57 head of cattle. The Stewarts's home sits at 3,000 feet in elevation and over looks the Bulkley Valley and Telkwa mountain range in the distance. (Photos I took from Gordon's farm will be added to my report and will be seen on my website at a later date. Anyone wishing to post these reports to their web sites may request the photos and I will send them along). Gordon's farm is approx 6 kilometers off Highway #16. The next largest town is Smithers which is approx: 15 miles west from Telkwa, B.C. and has an airport for the surrounding areas. I received a telephone call today (July 30, 2002) from a reporter (Nicole Fitzgerald) at the Smithers Interior Newspaper, Smithers, British Columbia asking if I had received a sighting reports from any of the residents from the Telkwa, B.C. area. I told Nicole nothing had come in so far. She went on to give me a brief description of what one witness (Gordon Stewart - a farmer and resident of the Telkwa area) had told her he seen at 10:45 p.m. on July 29, 2002. I asked her if it would be ok to get his contact information as I wanted to look into the matter and investigate the report. I received Gordon's contact information. I telephoned Gordon and set up an interview with him at 8:00 a.m. on August 1, 2002 at his home in Telkwa, British Columbia. When I arrived at the gentleman's farm the first thing I noticed was the view, from their beautiful home and picture window they had an uninstructed view of the valley below, and across the valley the Telkwa Mountain range stood still snow capped. I knocked on the witnesses door and a tall well built man greeted me and invited in. We discussed farming as we made out way through his home to the living room and kitchen area. Before sitting down for a coffee and discussing what he saw, Gordon took me into the living room and he sat down in his chair, pointed out the window moving his arm which indicated the location, and flight path of the object. Gordon mentioned that he was going to catch a late movie before retiring to bed. He said I never expected to have such an exciting night. At this point Gordon's wife joined us both, and we all sat down at the kitchen table and he gave me a description of what he saw on July, 29, 2002. It was exactly 10:45 p.m. on July, 29, 2002 when I was sitting watching a late movie when I saw a "HUGE", round white/yellowish object in color, traveling at approx: 600 miles per hour fly at low attitude (approx: 300 meters - altitude) through the Bulkley Valley below. From my distance, he said, the object was the approximately the size of a pickup truck, he went on to say the actual size, in his estimation if he had of been closer to it would have been closer to a school bus. The object traveled according to the witness, west to east. There was "no" sound at all, no reaction from his two dogs which were outside at the time the object passed by. I asked if there was a tail trailing it, he said no. It was completely round and very bright. As I mentioned above, the Stewarts's farm sits approx: at a elevation of 3000 feet, and the Telkwa Mountain Range sits at approx: 3500 feet. The object was traveling below the top of the Telkwa range, and below the elevation the Stewart's farm sits. He also mentioned the object would have passed directly over top of Round Lake which can been seen 2 to 3 miles in the distance from the farm. Gordon did step out onto his patio to look around, but the object had already departed from his sight. He came back in and woke his wife (Joanna) and told her what he just witnessed. She for some reason wasn't really surprised. (I will explain below - very interesting!). Gordon made a call to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) to make a report of what he just witnessed, also wondering if anyone else had reported anything close to what he just saw. The RCMP told him they had not heard from anyone else. A Constable took the report by way of telephone. The next day Mr. Stewart telephoned the Smithers Interior Newspaper and talked with reporter Nicole Fitzgerald who requested a meeting with Gordon and took the interview. This is where I came into the picture, as Nicole had contacted me. As I mentioned in the report from Gordon, his wife Joanna was not all that surprised. After Gordon explained what it was he just had seen, thinking his wife may not believe him, she spoke up and said from what you just told me, I seen a similar light two month prior to this sighting. She did not want to tell her husband because she thought he wouldn't believe her. I asked Mrs. Stewart what she had witnessed, she went on to tell me she was laying in bed a wake with the drapes closed over when a "really bright white light" lit up the whole room. Joanna said it frightened her, but still got up slowly and approached the window carefully. She pulled over the side of the drapes and looked out to see a "HUGE" very bright light. As the object moved very slowly across their farm, it shone a beam of white light towards the ground behind their home in a large field. She started to lose sight of the object, so she moved from the bedroom to the living room and watched the object fly "slowly" across their field, across Boundary Road and onto their neighbors farm where she finally lost sight of it. She said the object moved completely in silence and went on to describe the beam of light as if someone held a flashlight upside down pointing downwards. Joanna said it was as if the sun was out, but within a circle on the ground. (Investigators Note: I received a report this year (2002) from a witness south of Burns Lake, a small farming community called Grassy Plains which is across Francois Lake. This witness went on to tell me of a similar object which did exactly the same thing Joanna saw, or described. This may or may not have anything to do with one another, but both reports would be in the right time frame). I sincerely thank Mr. & Mrs. Stewart for sharing the story with me, and taking the time to allow me in their home to discuss what it was they saw. Next installment - Why all the aircraft traffic ? - Why was the military in the area ? - The three witnesses from Houston, B.C, to the July 29 th sighting. - My Visit to the RCMP. -------- Anyone wishing to use this report, and all of the reports to follow for this case is welcomed to do so. All I ask is that you please place a link back to my site and mark the work copyrighted. Copyright - HBCC UFO Research Thank you Brian Vike (Yogi) Independent UFO Field Investigator/Researcher HBCC UFO Research Box 1091 Houston, B.C. Canada VOJ-1ZO Editor: Canadian Communicator Paranormal Magazine Phone/Fax - 1-250-845-2189 Email - yogibear@bulkley.net hbccufo@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 12 Greek UFO Landing Trace Case - Reality Check? From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 19:38:44 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:47:05 -0400 Subject: Greek UFO Landing Trace Case - Reality Check? The alleged UFO landing near Prinos, Greece, has been reportedly widely by Greek media (such as ANA - Athens News, Kathimerini - Greece's International English language newspaper), Pravda and even the UK Guardian newspaper. While the affair appears intriguing, even local Greek reports are making the 'Signs' connection, even though the film hasn't appeared there yet. The critical difference in the Greek report and the "crop circle" cases, is that witnesses actually saw a UFO land creating traces described as "holes in the soil, some as deep as 20 cm, which had cut into (farmer Athanassios Tsioukas's) wheat crop." He claims to have lost several hectacres of wheat! Hopefully more details, and possibly pictures will emerge to enable more informed discussion. As someone who has focused on UFO landing/"physical trace" cases (CE2 events) I am watching how this story develops with interest. I hope it isn't some bizarre "Signs" publicity gimmick. For CE2 info re Australia check out: http://www.theozfiles.com/ufo_physical_evidence.html Sites include: http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=&t=01&m=A08&aa=7 http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100016_09/08/2002_19661 http://www.guardian.co.uk/silly/story/0,10821,772134,00.html http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/08/09/34128_.html Even the Greek tourist trade has jumped on the reports: http://gogreece.about.com/library/weekly/aa080902a.htm Regards, Bill Chalker
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kline From: Jeff Kline <JeKline@FDIC.gov> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 06:58:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:48:52 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kline EBK, for investigators and readers alike. Found another article regarding the subject named sighting and it has quotes from Military sources to boot: http://channels.netscape.com/ns/atplay/content.jsp?file=alien1.inc Jeff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:01:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:55:23 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Rebecca Keith <xiannekei@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:02:19 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >>Subject: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >>(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >>kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >>ago. >However, not enough of us asked questions! >>The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >>since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >>20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >>Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >>advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >>(public) attention. >No kidding. >But don't give Roger Leir more recognition than he deserves in >this context. He is a doctor, but not a medical doctor. He's >probably experienced in removing foreign bodies from feet, but >do you think he's qualified to analyze anything? As for Derrel >Sims, I don't think he's a medical professional in any sense of >the word(s). >>How many people have to undergo invasive surgical procedures >>before Dr. Lier has recovered enough 'implants' to conduct a >>proper analysis? And I don't mean through NIDS either. I'm >>talking about an analysis of whatever objects have been >>retrieved thus far, by an _independent_ group of scientists. >And the results should be fully reported, whether anomalous or >not. >>Both Lier and Sims both promised to publish any analysis results >>in peer review journals when they were attempting to justify the >>unusual elective surgical procedures. Never happened. Nothing >>has ever been published in any medical or scientific journals >>that I know of. >Maybe their results weren't remarkable. Maybe their science >wasn't remarkable. Promising publishing and getting published >are two completely different things. ><snip> >>Once again I ask... "How many _more_ have to undergo invasive >>surgery before enough becomes enough?" These are after all, >>human beings we're discussing, not cattle. Does it bother >>anybody else? >It has bothered me from the beginning but probably not for the >same reasons. Hiya Rebecca, As Homer Simpson might say, "It's been a real edumacation" for me ever since I allowed myself to get involved with this abduction business on a public level. "Fools to the left of me, jokers on the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you." :) Flogging bunch of 'users'! Facts of Life for an abductee: 1. If you seek help from one of the more well-known abduction researchers you run the risk of having your case file sold to Bigelow/NIDS behind your back for $200.00 apiece. All an abductee really means to some of these guys is an opportunity to ring the cash-register. I tell no lie. 2. Abductees whose cases are good candidates for a book, or to gain them more public recognition (to keep them in the spot- light) get courted like mistresses. And just like utilitarian whores, they are used and discarded once their usefulness/novelty has passed. (ie; What have you done for me lately?) 3. With all of the alleged abduction research going on out there, there is no "real" abduction research going on at all. None of what is currently available or going on in the field has anything to do with (real) "research". In spite of the fact that the reports of abduction have grown to almost epidemic proportions, no _independent_ researchers - with no vested interests, books to sell etc., or other self-serving connections to the phenom) has gotten involved and made themselves available to those who are only seeking help or who wish to report. There is no place sane or untainted - without personal agendas - that people can safely turn to for info or help. After seven years of involvement, I can honestly inform other experiencers that you need to do what you can to _help_ yourself_! Don't look for an objective point of view from anyone who makes their living writing books on the subject or who is busy promoting abduction cases solely through book sales. It just doesn't help, make anything better, or to advance the pawn of genuine research a few squares. All that you'll really accomplish with some of these people is to fatten _their_ bank accounts a little. But hey, every little bit helps eh? <vbeg> Unless/until a serious, accredited and _independent_ set of professionals, or institution (scientists from many disciplines) takes on the work of conducting an _objective_ investigation into this abduction phenomena, keep your ears on and be real careful about whom you associate yourself with. Be careful and extremely selective about who you share your life with. It's way too easy to get used, badly burned, and then discarded like yesterday's newspaper. Especially for anyone who is only seeking help. To do anything other than to exercise fine judgement, applying all the knowledge and wisdom gained through life-experience is to expose oneself unnecessarily to what can be embarrassing and painful situations. Abductees need that least of all. Their plates are already full when they hit the front door. For all experiencers: Help yourself! Don't depend on anyone else to do it. Painstakingly educate yourself and then seek out others who you think can be of some _practical_ assistance. And at all times... proceed with extreme caution. Each and every step of the way. It's _your_ sanity, equilibrium and future state of well being that's on the line. Not theirs. It is more important to learn how to think your way out of this mess than it is to allow yourself to 'feel' your way out and get fooled. Too many wolves in sheep's clothing out there. Lier & Sims and NIDS, along with _many_ of the more well-known abduction researchers are not to be trusted blindly. In some cases, abductees should avoid them like the Bubonic Plague. It is why after a while - a very educational' while - I disassociated myself completely from the whole shi**y lot of em. The day some _independent_ experts/medical or research institution becomes involved, I will throw my support behind it/them with a Holy Vengeance. Until then, I think can best serve myself and others by; telling only the unembellished truth about what I have learned along the way, continue to speak my honest mind to anyone who'll listen, and to make myself available to any and all. And by Surviving - Cap intentional - The kind of survival-challenge that abductees are forced to face is a pure bitch on wheels given the current availability of safe, reliable and objective people or groups they can turn to for assistance. ) What a mess, eh, Rebecca?! :) *Sorry we didn't get a chance to get together while you were in NYC. :( Warmest regards, tu amigo siempre, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 12 Mass UFO-Confusion Near Butler County, Ohio From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 10:21:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:59:02 -0400 Subject: Mass UFO-Confusion Near Butler County, Ohio UFO Confusion near Oxford, Ohio (Butler County) Around 11:00 p.m. I received a voice-message telephone call from someone reporting a UFO over the Oxford airport. The caller left a phone number that did not work as I tried to redial. The call sounded credible, and the man said he had received the information from a Ham radio operator. I then called the Miami University Police Dispatch office at 513-529-2222 with hopes of getting more information. When the dispatcher answered the phone, I point-blank asked: "what had happened over the airport tonight?" at which point the dispatcher said: "Oh, I think that was a helicopter." Intrigued, I then went on to ask for some details about the event. He said that the Oxford police department took the first reports from people who thought they saw a UFO. He said the airport is unmanned and there is no radar or air traffic control tower at the airport, which is a fairly small runway. He felt that the object was identified as a helicopter by a police officer. He then recommended that I call the Oxford police department. I then called the Oxford Police Department at 513-524-5240 and an Officer Blevins said that their department had been advised of the event by the Butler County Sheriff's department. Citizen calls reporting a UFO were received by the Butler County dispatch before 10:00 p.m. on Friday evening. While the Oxford police dispatcher was unaware of any sighting over the Oxford airport, she did advise of an object that was seen to the west, over the city of Franklin. She said that a Franklin police officer had identified the object as a helicopter. A third phone call was placed to the Butler County Sheriff Department at 513-785-1300. The dispatcher handling the call, Officer Metzger, was not fully aware of the event but said it had been explained as "Possibly a star cluster." Coming on for the 3rd shift duty, she was not aware of the witness descriptions or the nature of the calls. The Franklin police department was contacted at 937-746-2882 and the dispatcher taking the call was surprised when I had asked about UFO sightings in the area and she said: "not through our police department." The call was then handled by a second officer at the Franklin City Police Department who also knew nothing of any such reports. I informed that Butler County had said calls began around 10:00 p.m. and that the object was seen over Franklin. The officer said she knew nothing of such a report. I also said the suspected object was possibly identified as a helicopter by a Franklin officer and she said that there was no Franklin officer involved in any such sighting, further saying that she had been on duty all night and 'would have known about it.' I then called the Warren County police dispatch headquarters at 513-420-4289 and the officer taking the call, identifying himself as Jason, said that he had not heard of any UFO sighting reports and their office had not taken any incoming calls of such. Another phone call was placed to the Miamisburgh police headquarters at 937-866-3344, and they also were unaware of any UFO sighting reports. COMMENT Four separate sources advise of reported UFO activity near Oxford, Ohio : 1) an informant leaving a telephone message whose return phone number does not work, 2). The Miami University Police Dispatch Office confirms reports of suspected UFO seen near airport and adds that it was identified as 'helicopter' and 3) Oxford Police Department confirms of notification by Butler County Dispatch due to citizen complaints of UFO seen over Franklin and 4) Butler County confirms citizen complaints of UFO sighting around 10:00 p.m. but suggests the reports are due to a 'star cluster.' This is a most curious episode. Exact details of what was reported are still not available. Conflicting information is present in that officers at Miami University police dispatch presumed that "an" object was explained as a helicopter by a Franklin police officer while neither the Franklin police department nor the Butler County or Warren County sheriff headquarters can shed any light on 1). reports of a UFO, 2). helicopter identification claim or 3) Franklin police officer. More puzzling is that Oxford police headquarters directly advised that a UFO was reported over the city of Franklin while Franklin police officers deny any knowledge of such reports. This general area is around 25-miles southwest of Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Filed; August 10, 2002 KENNY YOUNG -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 12 Re: JUFOS - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:02:27 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Clark >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:14:42 EDT >Subject: JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:50:37 -0400 >>Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 >>JUFOS is still published on an irregular basis. Unfortunately, I >>believe the Journal is not supported by its sales and requires >>an influx of cash (i.e. donations) to get another publication >>out the door. >>Another journal that comes to mind is the Journal of Scientific >>Exloration (JSE), which often has articles of interest to those >>in this genre. >>Unfortunately, neither is widely distributed beyond the >>recipients who have purchasesd individual copies >But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? Yes, they do, Bob. I take it that you don't read them, or you wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Secrecy News -- 08/12/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:26:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 05:23:44 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/12/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 75 August 12, 2002 ** YELLOW RAIN REVISITED ** FAS FOUNDER LYLE BORST ** SECRECY IN THE NEWS YELLOW RAIN REVISITED Declassified intelligence data may revive a twenty year old debate about whether or not the Soviet Union introduced chemical weapons into Southeast Asia. In 1981, the U.S. State Department claimed to have evidence that the Soviet Union had supplied toxic chemicals for use against anti-Communist insurgents in northern Laos. The chemical substance, reportedly deposited by aircraft as a streaming yellow liquid, became known as "yellow rain." A scientific investigation of the allegations led by Matthew Meselson (sometime chairman of the Federation of American Scientists) concluded that they were in error, and that "yellow rain" was nothing more than... bee feces. The ensuing controversy over yellow rain was remarkable for its bitter, vituperative tone which persisted over a number of years in various journals and newspaper editorials. And it's not quite over yet. "Although the general public assumed the Yellow Rain allegations had been laid to rest, the U.S. government never retracted them," writes Jonathan B. Tucker of the Monterey Institute Center for Nonproliferation Studies in a recent article. "More than 20 years later, the controversy has yet to be fully resolved. One reason is that much information supporting the U.S. government's case has not been publicly released because of the need to protect sensitive intelligence sources and methods," says Tucker. He does cite two new pieces of evidence. One is a declassified CIA estimate which indicates that the Soviets had indeed developed and weaponized chemical agents similar to those allegedly used in yellow rain. On the other hand, he notes reports of a June 2002 storm near Calcutta involving yellow- green colored rain caused by the feces of bees which had consumed the pollen from local mangoes and coconuts. "Given growing concerns over the proliferation and use of toxin weapons, however, clarifying this historical controversy-- ideally, through the declassification of additional U.S. intelligence documents--is of more than academic interest," Tucker prudently concludes. See his August 5 article "Conflicting Evidence Revives 'Yellow Rain' Controversy" here: http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/020805.htm FAS FOUNDER LYLE BORST Dr. Lyle B. Borst, who died July 30 at the age of 89, was a principal founder of the Federation of American Scientists. "You have heard eminent scientists," Dr. Lyle B. Borst told a House caucus in 1945. "You now hear a nobody." As a "nobody," Borst was not a household name. But he was an effective representative of hundreds of other "unknown" physicists who went on to form the scientists' movement for arms control. On November 1, 1945, he was one of the four scientists who convened a press conference in Washington to announce the establishment of the Federation of Atomic Scientists, which soon became the Federation of American Scientists (following "acrimonious debate," naturally). Dr. Borst played a significant role in the Federation's first successful campaign to ensure civilian control of the nation's nuclear weapons program through the enactment of the McMahon bill, which became the Atomic Energy Act of 1946. See his obituary in the August 12 New York Times here: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/12/obituaries/12BORS.html The early history of the atomic scientists' movement is recounted in "A Peril and a Hope" by Alice Kimball Smith (Univ of Chicago Press, 1965). SECRECY IN THE NEWS "When U.S. District Court Judge Gladys Kessler ruled last Friday that the names of hundreds of immigrants detained after Sept. 11 should be made public, she touched off a political firestorm," wrote Sharon Otterman of United Press International. See her article "D.C. judge in center of storm," August 9: http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID020809-111129-6858r The online availability of public information about U.S. military facilities is reportedly causing concern to some military commanders. See "Internet good friend to terrorists" by John Diedrich in the Colorado Springs Gazette, August 11: http://www.gazette.com/stories/0811top2.php A sidebar examines the public availability of high resolution satellite imagery in "High-quality satellite photos no longer limited to military" here: http://www.gazette.com/stories/0811top2a.php "Leaking may be a pain for decision makers, but it is necessary for our democracy, especially on issues of war and peace in a government that is becoming more and more secretive," writes historian Richard Reeves. See his August 10 essay which argues that "Leaking is Necessary to Counteract Government Secrecy": http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/020811/79/20mxk.html "It would be a tragedy if the United States -- the world's leading democracy -- charted a persistent path away from a recent global trend toward greater access to government information," writes John C. Bersia in an opinion piece in the August 12 Orlando Sentinel. See "Tilt Must be Against Secrecy": http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-ed-bersia081202.column "A year after the terrorist attacks temporary emergency actions have evolved into fundamental changes in the public's right to know," writes Mary Graham in the September issue of The Atlantic. "Restrictions [on information] have been driven as much by familiar politics and bureaucratic instincts as by national security." See her article "The Information Wars" here: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/09/graham.htm _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:32:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 05:58:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:32:42 +0000 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:15:06 EDT >>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Bottom line is it is up to us. We also shouldn't spend a great >>deal of time trying to satisfy the skeptibunkers because they >>never will be satisfied. >That is a _major_ piece of wisdom! >Eleanor White I agree with this. What we should do is spend some time debunking the skeptibunkers and showing up how silly and unfounded many of their arguments are (that's different from trying to "satisfy" or persuade them of anything; that certainly is a waste of time). For example, Bob Young's ludicrous take on the Ravenna (1966) and Ohio helicopter (1973) cases, and John Rimmer's ludicrous take on the Trindade Isle, Brazil (1958) photo case. They know in advance that all such cases CANNOT BE anything other than trivial phenomena, while keeping their butts firmly glued to their armchairs. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:37:16 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:00:13 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:22:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:03:44 +0000 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >To be fair, repeatability is not required by the "Scientific >Method". As you note, many of today's scientific puzzles cannot >be called up on demand. All we can do is gather whatever >evidence we can to try and explain it. Let's not toss the >scientific method out the window quite yet. >Steve See The UFO Evidence, Volume II (a rare book that hardly anyone is aware of) for many suggested applications of good scientific method to UFOs. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:55:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:03:35 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:49:29 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >One of the distinguishing characteristics of "pseudo-science" >is that the passage of time NEVER provides increased knowledge >or understanding of the basic phenomenon. >--Philip J. Klass, Skeptics UFO Newsletter #71, September 2002 Especially when the facts are constantly misrepresented, never investigated, and arbitrarily termed "pseudo-science" by intellect-deprived people like Klass, and believed whole-hog by made-up-mind sycophants like Bob Young. Klass's several books (as Bruce Maccabee has pointed out) don't even agree with each other. Talk about ad hoc pseudo-science, look at his books! - - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Twisted Science [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:12:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:18:02 -0400 Subject: Twisted Science [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:02:09 -0600 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >There is no place for you or CSICOP among the honest seekers of >knowledge or truth, both in legitimate science and legitimate >research into the paranormal. The world no longer needs your >kind. It hasn't for a long, long time. Self-deception is your >Epitaph. CSICOP, your Momument of Shame. >>Come on, Wendy, lighten up on the guy. You're painting him like >>the Osama bin Laden of Ufology. All he is is wrong! <Snip> Jim, Not a chance, Pal. As long as Phil continues to spittle the more I'll use him to wipe up the mess he makes. He's a prime CSICOPian Cultist and intelligent people know what cults have tended to do throughout history. Cultist's try to save humanity from itself and stop the progression of knowledge and free thought. But humanity's job is to save itself from the cultists one-way course of fanaticism. Science is not the Holy Grail of humanity. It can be twisted, warped and molded as anything else for purposes both good and evil. Science itself wouldn't exist without faith, creativity and the will of people to dream beyond the mundane acceptance of the status quo. Science is only a small part of the larger picture of truth, insight and knowledge. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:13:38 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:19:45 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall >From: Jeff Kline <JeKline@FDIC.gov> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 06:58:40 -0400 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >EBK, for investigators and readers alike. >Found another article regarding the subject named sighting and >it has quotes from Military sources to boot: >http://channels.netscape.com/ns/atplay/content.jsp?file=alien1.inc >Jeff Jeff, These "quotes from military sources" are old-hat and as superficial as ever. Presumably by your e-mail address you live in the Washington, D.C., area. Perhaps you should get in touch with me and/or the Fund for UFO Research. - Dick Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: JUFOS - Kaeser From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:07:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Kaeser >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: JUFOS I wrote: >>>Unfortunately, neither is widely distributed beyond the >>>recipients who have purchasesd individual copies To which, Bob Young replied: >>But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? Prompting: >Yes, they do, Bob. I take it that you don't read them, or you >wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. Very good articles and I wish it was published on a more regular basis. For those who aren't familiar with the Journal of UFO Studies (JUFOS), the new series is still available, as are photocopies of the old series: http://www.cufos.org/pubs3.html Steve [sorry for the shameless plug]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:20:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:23:18 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Kaeser >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:17:23 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up I wrote: >>I certainly agree, but we're really talking about "paradigm >>shifting" evidence that would have to be very solid, if our goal >>is to prove extraterrestrial visitation. Bob queried: >Steve: >Is this the same as saying that there is, currently, no >acceptable scientific evidence for ET visitation? So many assumptions in that question, but with reservations I would say "yes". IMO, as far as mainstream science is concerned there is no conclusive evidence of ET visatation. There are many annecdotal reports from extremely reliable witnesses describing objects or events that aren't easily explained. There are also numerous medical and trace cases that remain a question, with no conclusive proof of a mundane explanation. However, that isn't "acceptable scientific evidence" and fails to trigger the paradigm shift in beliefs that would occur if ET visitation were a confirmed fact. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 UFOs 'That Claw Faces' Now In Nepal From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:41:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:26:46 -0400 Subject: UFOs 'That Claw Faces' Now In Nepal Source: AFP via The Australian, August 11, 2002 http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,4882129%255E17= 02,00.html Compare to my UFO UpDates post of August 7 at: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/aug/m07-013.shtml The 'muhnochwas' - 'objects that claw the faces' - 'leave a mark of claw on the faces of the victims' while flying over the night skies of the state of Uttar Pradesh in India. The state government has asked IIT, the Indian Institute of Technology, in Kanpoor to send a team of scientists into the remote areas of Mirzapur and other districts of eastern Uttar Pradesh to unravel the mystery. Stig *** Fireball in sky terrorises Nepalese >From an AFP correspondent in Kathmandu, Nepal 11aug02 ** MANY residents of south-western Nepal are living in fear after seeing a fireball swoop down from the sky to attack a woman two nights in a row, reports said. The Kathmandu Post quoted residents of the southwestern city of Nepalgunj saying the UFO would target people sleeping on their terraces and roofs to escape the summer heat. "Sahim Khan, 55, was sleeping peacefully on the terrace of her house when the fireball-like object flew towards her ready to attack her," the newspaper said quoting a local. "When we rushed towards Khan's house after seeing the object, it disappeared instantly." Residents said the same ball of fire had come after Khan the night before. Asked about the mysterious assailant, the district's deputy superintendent of police, Gokarna Bahadur Pal, told the paper he had seen a red object in the sky but did not know what it was. Rumours were circulating in the town that the same fireball killed a woman several days ago in a village in neighbouring India. ** =A9 The Australian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 ttacking UFOs Filmed By Indian District Magistrate? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:58:44 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:29:17 -0400 Subject: Attacking UFOs Filmed By Indian District Magistrate? Source: AP via The Globe And Mail - Canada http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20020812/wufoo81= 2/Front/homeBN/breakingnews Stig *** 'Flying sphere' attacks Indian villagers Associated Press Monday, August 12 -- Online Edition, Posted at 4:20 PM EST ** Shanwa, India =97 It comes in the night, a flying sphere emitting red and blue lights that attacks villagers in this poor region, extensively burning those victims it does not kill. At least that's what panic-stricken villagers say. At least seven people have died of unexplained injuries in the past week in Uttar Pradesh state. "A mysterious flying object attacked him in the night," Raghuraj Pal said of his neighbour, Ramji Pal, who died recently in Shanwa. "His stomach was ripped open. He died two days later." Many others have suffered scratches and surface wounds, which they say were inflicted while they slept. In the village of Darra, 53-year-old Kalawati said she was attacked last week and displayed blisters on her blackened forearms. "It was like a big soccer ball with sparkling lights," said Kalawati, who uses only one name. "It burned my skin." "I can't sleep because of pain," she said. Doctors dismiss the stories as mass hysteria. "More often than not the victims have unconsciously inflicted the symptoms themselves," said Narrotam Lal, a doctor at King George's Medical College in Lucknow, the state capital. The police have another explanation: bugs. "It is a three-and-a-half-inch-long winged insect" that leaves rashes and superficial wounds, Kavindra Singh, a superintendent of police, told the Press Trust of India news agency. Police drew this conclusion after residents of one village found insects they had never seen before. Villagers are unconvinced. In the most affected area, the Mirzapur district, 600 kilometres southeast of New Delhi, people have stopped sleeping outdoors despite the sweltering heat and frequent power outages. Villagers also have formed protection squads that patrol Shanwa, beating drums and shouting slogans such as, "Everyone alert. Attackers beware." Some accuse district officials of inaction and failing to capture the "aliens." One person died Thursday in nearby Sitapur when police fired shots to disperse a 10,000-strong crowd demanding that authorities capture the mysterious attackers. "People just block the roads and attack the police for inaction each time there's a death or injury," said Amrit Abhijat, Mirzapur's district magistrate, who claims he has captured the UFO on film. ** Copyright =A9 2002 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Crop Circles From An Oregonian Perspective From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 04:34:54 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:31:23 -0400 Subject: Crop Circles From An Oregonian Perspective Source: The Oregonian http://oregonlive.com/living/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xs l?/base/living/1028980756324590.xml Stig *** Circling/for answers 08/12/02 KRISTI TURNQUIST ** Millions of people have seen the summer blockbuster movie 'Signs', starring Mel Gibson as a farmer who discovers mysterious crop circles in his field. Lyle Spiesschaert hasn't seen the movie. He's been living it. Sometime between the night of July 4 and the morning of July 5, a design appeared in Spiesschaert's 30-acre wheat field in Forest Grove. As word got out, TV helicopters started flying over the design, a central circle with a pair of satellite circles on either side with a key shape on the south side of the center circle. "Inside Edition" ran a story. Crop-circle investigators came to gather evidence. And a steady stream of true believers and just-plain-curious folks showed up to feel the vibrations and eyeball the odd, intertwined pattern left in the flattened wheat. "It swirled," says Spiesschaert of the intricately interwoven crushed wheat. "Like a toilet flushing," he adds, his tanned face creasing into a smile. Even though Spiesschaert has since harvested the field in question, the hubbub is still swirling. "I get two to three calls a day," he says, from people who've heard about the circles. "I think the movie is doing some of it," he adds. "There's even been speculation that they had something to do with it." But if it was a publicity stunt to promote "Signs," someone forgot to tell Spiesschaert. "I ought to at least be in cahoots and get some of the kickback," he says, with a laugh. "Signs," another walk on the weird side from "The Sixth Sense" writer-director M. Night Shyamalan, is the latest pop culture creation to stir up mainstream interest in the paranormal. Back in 1938, Orson Welles took the H.G. Wells sci-fi classic "The War of the Worlds," and scared the pants off radio listeners who thought they were hearing news reports of Martians attacking New Jersey. In 1977, Steven Spielberg made pop poetry out of UFO lore with "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." And the '90s brought paranoia- tinged portraits of unexplained phenomena, alien invasions and government cover-ups, thanks to "The X- Files" and the original "Men in Black." Now, thanks to "Signs," millions of people who don't know a crop circle from an Arctic Circle are wondering what all the fuss is about. Turns out there are plenty of Oregonians who could fill them in. About 20 circles have been researched in the Pacific Northwest since 1993, according to Carol Pedersen, Oregon representative for the England-based Centre for Crop Circle Studies. Pedersen, who lives in Aloha, has researched Pacific Northwest crop formations for about 10 years, and teaches an occasional class through Portland Community College on the elaborate designs, also called pictograms. While Pedersen admits that "Signs" has sparked renewed interest in crop circles - mysterious, geometrically precise designs that have been appearing in fields around the world since the 1970s, most frequently in England - she worries the movie dredges up cheesy old notions. Temporarily sidelined by sciatica, Pedersen has not yet seen the movie. But, she says via e-mail that from what she's heard and seen in previews, "Signs" seems to portray crop circles as "something to fear and related somehow to aliens. This is not my experience nor approach to researching the circles. The crop circles are a mystery no one has as yet been able to understand." As is her practice, Pedersen gathered crop samples from Lyle Spiesschaert's Forest Grove field and sent them to Michigan biophysicist W.C. Levengood, who has been analyzing crop circles for more than 10 years. While several hoaxers have come forward over the years claiming to have made crop circles, Levengood's work, Pedersen says, shows that other formations have physical properties indicating they weren't created by humans. As Pedersen explains it, the crops - wheat, corn, oats, barley and others - show changes that suggest some sort of electromagnetic energy being applied to the field. The crops are heated up so the stems bend easily and are swirled into different patterns, all of which may happen in less than a minute. Even as Pedersen was doing fieldwork, a Forest Grove teen came forward to say that other teen-agers had made Spiesschaert's formation - but, being sworn to secrecy, the teen couldn't name names. Pedersen puts little credence in such claims and is awaiting the results of Levengood's analysis. Other Oregon formations have been tested and found to be genuinely mysterious in origin, Pedersen says. Among them, the trio that appeared in 1994: a Celtic cross design near 185th Avenue and the Sunset Highway; a key pictogram in West Union; and a doughnut-shaped circle in Gaston. Pedersen doesn't think Oregon's circles are hoaxes. Beyond that, she says, "I don't know what created the circles. No one has that answer." And she's impatient with those who say crop formations are mere publicity stunts. "It does seem rather odd to me that after 20 years' research, the media and public are still not certain there are any genuine circles." But for every believer, there's a skeptic who says crop circle researchers are blinded with pseudo-science. "The fact is, crop circles are very easily shown to be man- made, where all you need is a board and a rope and you can stomp wheat like that," says Josh Reese, a retired Marine aviator and membership chairman of Oregonians for Rationality. Founded in 1994 to promote "science and reason," as Reese says, the 230-member Oregon group looks askance at such phenomena as crop circles. Oregonians for Rationality is affiliated with the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, the national organization whose mission is to "encourage the critical investigation of paranormal and fringe-science claims from a responsible, scientific point of view." The group, known by the acronym CSICOP, publishes the Skeptical Inquirer magazine and shares information at events like the "Skeptics Toolbox Workshop" coming up Thursday through Sunday at the University of Oregon in Eugene. Meanwhile, back at Lyle Spiesschaert's place, the calls keep coming, from the curious, the hopeful, the believers. "I'm open-minded," says Spiesschaert, who doesn't quite know what to think about his crop circles. But he knows this. "If it is a message from beyond," he says with a smile, "they need to be clearer. 'Cause I don't know what they're saying." Kristi Turnquist: 503-221-8227; kristiturnquist@news.oregonian.com ** Copyright 2002 Oregon Live. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: JUFOS - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:39:48 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:33:17 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Young >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: JUFOS >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:14:42 EDT >>Subject: JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? >Yes, they do, Bob. I take it that you don't read them, or you >wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. >> Hello, Jerry: Yes, I've read them. The discussion started with the idea that Ufology needs peer-reviewed journals. These names came up and Steve noted that they aren't widely read. Thus, my question, are they peer-reviewed? Thanks for the info. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 MUFON Director On Iowan Crop Circles From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 04:45:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:35:44 -0400 Subject: MUFON Director On Iowan Crop Circles AP via the Lincoln Journal Star http://www.journalstar.com/latest_reg.php?story_id=3D15092 Stig *** IA - Signs in Iowa fields not unheard of The Associated Press DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Interest in the phenomenon of crop circles has been heightened with the newly released movie, "Signs," staring Mel Gibson, but the Iowa director of a group that investigates crop circles believes people should look at them for what they are. "The bottom-line explanation is, they are an anomaly," said Beverly Trout of Mitchellville. She is the Iowa director of the Mutual UFO Network, a worldwide nonprofit organization of volunteers who investigate suspected crop circles. Mufon members also look into UFO sightings and animal mutilations. Trout believes in aliens, but stops short of saying aliens create crop circles. "We need to look at crop formations for what they are, rather than what we'd like them to be," she said. Trout said Mufon members are meticulous about checking crop circles because the last thing they want is to be scammed. A few years ago, two men in England showed the media how they attached a rope handle to a wide board to make the circles. Holding onto the rope and putting their feet alternately on the board, they flattened stalks as they walked in a spiral. This also was the method for making the crop circles for "Signs." Trout speculates that authentic crop circles have been around for hundreds of years all over the world, but only in the last few years have people begun to report them. Plasma forces or some other unidentified natural phenomenon, and even aliens, are other ideas batted around as possible causes by those who study crop circles. Crop circles have popped up in Iowa, most recently as last year near Iowa City. Ed Williams was combining his wheat near Iowa City when he discovered a circle there. Williams thought at first that a weather phenomenon caused his wheat to lie clockwise in a circle within a ring about 60 feet in diameter. He called his brother, an airline pilot, and they talked about microbursts, or strong winds that occasionally down planes. A climatologist told Williams the configuration was too large for that. Two agronomists from Iowa State University drove over to look at the formation. One of them, Dr. Stan Henning, dismissed it as man- made. No tracks showed up, he said, because it was dry. Someone, he said, could have walked in the tracks made by Williams' tractor when he sprayed the field a few weeks earlier. Williams, now 54, wasn't convinced. He was puzzled by the intricate herringbone weaving of the straw within the circle. Trout said by the time Williams called Mufon, the Iowa City field was too degraded for her to determine whether it was a hoax. In August 1995, a teardrop-shaped formation was found in a cornfield near Arlington, in northeast Iowa. It measured about 11 feet in diameter and was unusual because the cornstalks were all pressed into the ground toward the center. None were broken. In 1996, farmer Brett Anderson was harvesting a soybean field southwest of Nevada when he encountered an area of flattened beans. Two weeks later, he found another formation in a cornfield. Anderson, now 44, said he was impressed that the plant stems were not broken. "Normally when they're ready for harvest, they're dry and they break," he said. "They don't bend." Two weeks later, a teardrop-shaped formation was discovered in Anderson's cornfield. It was 35 feet at the widest point. Stalks were swirled counterclockwise. Two more teardrop-shaped formations were found in hayfields on adjoining land. Anderson has his own notion of unexplained crop circles. "My theory is that either there's a lot of science yet to be discovered or we do have visitors from outer space." ** Copyright =A9 2002, Lincoln Journal Star. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 01:46:13 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:44:36 -0400 Subject: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe UFOs Hubble and the age of the Universe. In my earlier post I spoke about Hubble and the age of the Universe. The original post was titled Scientific Knowledge and UFOs. It was correctly pointed out to me that the Universe was theorized to be between 2 billion and 20-odd billion years old. (Thanks Brad) The issue with that post was the first paragraph where in I wrote that the age of the Universe was 4.8 billion years-old. The earth is generally thought to be 4.5 billion years-old and I just mixed up the number as I was writing the post, on the fly so to speak. I reviewed my Hubble material, below, and hope it clarifies. In the beginning Edwin Hubble speculated/believed that the Universe was 2 billion years-old, interestingly based on light observations. The general scientific truth is/was that the big bang happened and the universe started to expand. However the force of gravity put the brakes on the expansion similar to brakes being applied on a car. So it was thought and taught that the universe was slowing down. Uncertanties, over the Universe's so-called rate of expansion apparently, led to debate and speculation over the years with sundry dates and numbers (kind of like the debates between pro-UFO and skeptibunkers). Some of the early analysis was 5-8 billion years-old - later some speculated as high as 20 billion. In 1997 Hubble astronomers announced a so-called reliable age of the universe. However, that soon got complicated with the discovery that the Universe was not expanding at the generally thought of constant rate, but apparently accelerated do to some unknown repulsive force that astronomers called 'dark matter'. Note so-called scientists never actually had a sample of this 'dark matter' but it was based upon photo interpretation. Alleged existance of 'dark matter' is a rather extraordinary claim, I would say. Not to mention the extraordinary claim about how the Universe is not accelerating in a constant fashion. Then, in May of 2000, we were told that Hubble could see missing Hydrogen which had been previously thought to exist and allegedly was cooked up in the Big Bang but supposedly disappeared in space never be seen... that is until Hubble. Again this is/was based on photo interpretation of seeing alleged ionized oxygen between two galaxys, which the 'implication' was they had actually found this missing Hydrogen. Naturally in the press release the headline was not something along the lines of the find was 'implied' but in fact it said: "Lost and Found: Hubble finds much of the Universe's missing Hydrogen." Scientists don't actually have a physical sample of this alleged Hydrogen that can be independently verified at labs etc etc. Note we were also told that this verified (validated if you will) all of the models blah blah blah. Bottom line is another extraordinary claim with zero, zip, nadda physical evidence other then photo. Can anybody imagine a pro UFO press release that had the wording along the lines of implied discovery of UFOS based on actually seeing something else. The skeptibunkers and CSICOP would be standing in line to be the first ones to label it unprovable, junk science etc etc. On April 24th 2002 the age of the Universe was pronounced to be 13 to 14 billion years old based on Hubble photos of the charred husks of some white dwarfs in M-4. Again essentially based on photo interpretation as scientists don't actually have a sample of the charred husks to send to 20 labs to actually verify what they claim is in the photo. Yet again another extraordinary claim based on _no_ physical (you know touch, feel) evidence. The point being that so called main stream science is more then happy to go with a photo interpretation if its something they embrace/like. However if you mention the word "UFO" you would instantly hear blather about how we need actual physical samples, actual verified contact, actual ET craft for scientists to walk in and examine etc etc. I would expect the skeptibunkers will probably rationalize all of this away, dribbling about "Carl Sagen said..." and making up excuses and storys about why these Hubble photos should be taken seriously but photographic evidence of UFOs should not. As I mentioned in my earlier post I am still waiting for the cronies at CSICOP to be all over these new Hubble discoverys. Cheers Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 HBCC UFO Witnessed Part II From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:59:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:46:46 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO Witnessed Part II Howdy What I am doing, is to write the reports and send them out as I go along. Below is the report from three Houston residents over the July 29, 2002 sighting. Please keep in mind this is some of the witnesses for the July 29th sighting. There are other witnesses to hear from, and I will be writing up each of their reports as time permits (I have a lot of reports other than this case to write up). But I will be keeping on it. Everyone has been interviewed, except for a small party who had already left Smithers heading back home. I have their phone numbers and will be contacting them within a few days. Houston, Quick, Telkwa & Smithers - British Columbia Date: July 29, 2002 Time: approx: 10:30 - 10:45 p.m. On July 29, 2002 three Houston residents watched an object fly across night sky. (Investigators Note: Actually this worked out rather funny, as I had already heard about the sighting in Houston before I was contacted by Nicole, reporter for the Smithers Interior newspaper. I put it off as a meteor myself at the time, and to be honest did not give it another thought. I wasn't given much for information about what the fellows had seen, just a quick note to say, "I seen a bright meteor the other night". When I received a call from Nicole Fitzgerald asking if I had received any reports for July 29, 2002, I started thinking about what a witness had mentioned to me about his "meteor" sighting. Location information - Houston British Columbia (my home) sits in the Bulkley Valley surrounded by mountains. To the west there is the Telkwa Mountain range, and south Morice Mountain and Mount Harry Davis to the north. It is a small town with a population of 2500 to 2600 people living within. We sit at an elevation of 587 meters. Employment opportunities in the area are with forestry, mining and tourism. Houston offers some of the best Steelhead fishing in the world. I area is covered by clean fresh lakes & rivers to fish from, hiking, camping, skiing etc... are great pass times in the area. Houston boosts having the worlds largest Fly Rod, which indeed it is at a length of 60 feet (1829.8 cm) and weighs approximately 800 pounds. the reel has a diameter of 36 inches, while the fly at the end of the line is some 21 inches long. Want to go fishing ? -:))) (couldn't help myself) ! I caught up with the Houston resident and asked him more questions about what it was "he" saw, to my surprise he told me that he wasn't the only one who saw the "meteor"? The witness said there were two other people with him at the time (co- workers). The gentleman told me they were at their place of employment, which is Canfor Sawmill - Houston Division a large very productive operation. I asked what time did they see this object - "meteor"? I was told at approximately at 10:20, but it could have been a little later he said. From what I was told, no one thought to look at their watches mainly due to them thinking what they were seeing was just a meteor, as spectacular as it was. The Houston witness who first brought this to my attention said he was the first to notice what he and everyone else thought was a meteor. He looked up as a very bright white/yellowish colored, almost phosphorescent round object moved slowly through the night's sky. As the meteor (object) gained momentum it grew a short tail. This fellow was so amazed, surprised at the size and brightness of this thing, that he called to other co-workers. One was up sitting in a large forklift, while the other was close by. The point I would like to make is, the driver of the forklift had to open the door, and climb down from the machine to stand with the others fellows who were all watching this object. This took a few seconds. The total length of time the Canfor employees watched the object was close to 30 seconds and according to the fellows, dropping in altitude heading towards Tweedsmuir Park in a southwesterly direction. (Investigators Note: When I looked into the "major" sighting which took place this year on February 1, 2002 when three married ladies on their way home to Houston, B.C. from a shopping trip in Smithers watched a "Giant" , well lit craft descend from the cloud cover to approximately 300 feet above tree top level and pass right over their car. This also took place in Telkwa, British Columbia. While I was looking for any information, trying to put the parts together over this sighting I found out that just a little south east of the bottom tip of "Tweedsmuir Park" there is a military testing ground at Anahim Lake which is used for low and high level flight testing. So when "Tweedsmuir Park" was mentioned again I started wondering if there could be a connection between the February 1, 2002 sighting and this sighting of July 29, 2002. I completely stumbled on to finding out that military exercises were taking place (early Fenruary) due to a flight I was on heading to Vancouver, B.C. for my dad's 80th birthday which was on February 6, 2002. The pilot of the Dash 8 aircraft came over the intercom system announcing that the aircraft was to make a slight detour in his flight plan due to military exercises taking place. My question is, would our government in joint connection with the U.S. government be holding secret tests that the public are not aware of ? Or is there "something" using this flight path, (meaning here in the pacific northwest). This of course I have no answers to. Was the military in our area looking for something ? After I started investigating, and talking with the witnesses, I started to hear rumors of military vehicles scouring the back roads in the Telkwa area. I was surprised to hear this news. I thought that maybe one or two people had seen someone's personal truck all painted up in military colors, as there is one around Houston. Well it turns out that there was a good number of folks who told me they seen military vehicles traveling towards Smithers from the Houston area on highway #16. The military vehicles were not all traveling together as in a convoy, but rather spread out along the highway. Now how many of these vehicles there were, I have no idea. Another report came from residents in Telkwa, a husband and wife were driving along the Telkwa High Road when they came across a large military truck, they had to pull way off the road to let this vehicle pass by. Reports from the Smithers area came in as well, so people were seeing them. I had stopped into the RCMP detachment to request information over the July 29, 2002 sighting. I also asked when I was there if he knew, or heard of any military exercises taking place around the areas. The officer said he was not aware of anything going on, but went on to say he has a friend, a Captain in the Rangers and they were planning an exercise for around the end of this month (August). These exercises would be taking place in the Stewart, British Columbia area, which is a long way from us here. The constable also said none of the other RCMP officers mentioned seeing anything like I ask about in the area. Aircraft activity in the skies - Up ? There is no doubt in my mind that something was going on, all a person would have to do was to watch the local mountains for helicopter's flying low back and worth. Small aircraft also went back and forth over the local mountains here around the Houston area. Even at night time, (which is very strange) as friends telephoned me to say, look out your window and sure enough, a small plane was over top of Mount Harry Davis traveling in a straight line, or it looked as if the plane was, then to turn around and fly back again, the aircraft kept repeating this over and over until it left in a westerly direction. It returned approx: 20 minutes later repeating itself. Even a Hercules transport showed up at the Smithers airport. I talked with the tower about this, and I was told by them that this aircraft was being used to fly supplies into a mining camp, in which they do. I just had to wonder when I heard that a Hercules transport landed in Smithers at the same time all this was taking place. Investigators Note: I have lived in the area for a little over 20 years. We see a lot of helicopters flying low at times over the mountains. They carry either forestry, mining, fish and wildlife people doing their jobs. But over three days or so no one has ever seen so much aircraft activity as there had been. As I mentioned above, a lot of people were discussing it as it was out of place for the area. Matter of fact, I heard three large fixed wing aircraft fly overhead. The problem was it was rather overcast. But one did drop down and through the cloud cover and went out of sight very quickly behind Mount Harry Davis. I walked in and picked up the telephone and called the Smithers airport tower and asked if there was any air traffic over Houston, and area. "I was told no"! So I have to ask, what did I see ? Clouds ! My visit to the RCMP detachment in Smithers B.C. After I did an interview with the witness and I went to Smithers, I stopped into the Smithers RCMP detachment to enquire about the sighting report which was reported to them. I started to introduce myself, but the gal behind the counter beat me to it. She said "Oh your Brian". I laughed to myself. Mind you I wore my jacket with my logo on it, so I guess it wasn't hard to figure this out. I asked if it was possible to get the information from the RCMP's report that was made by Mr. Gordon Stewart. She asked me to wait while she went to talk with an officer, who came right out and I discussed with him what it was I was after. I told him I had already interviewed Mr. Stewart and had all the details, but wanted to check in with the RCMP to see if they may have had anything else to add. The constable went and grabbed the report, "but keeping the form away from my eyes", which is policy. He read over non personal information and had no more to add to the case. Is this reported sighting from Smithers, British Columbia a possible connection to the military ? I posted a sighting report for July 28 - 31, 2002 where three witnesses watched a strange sight indeed. They reported what they saw to the Smithers Interior Newspaper which in turn passed the information a long to me. Below I am re-posting the report with some comments made by myself. Smithers, British Columbia, Canada Date: approx: July 28 - 31, 2002 Time: Between 10:00 & 11:00 a.m. Daylight sighting: (From the sounds of things, this sighting took place close to the July 29, 2002 sighting in Telkwa, Houston, Quick and Smithers, British Columbia. I hope to have the exact date from the third witness.) There are three witnesses to this sighting in Smithers, B.C.. I have talked to two of the folks who watched the object, and waiting to hear from the third, and will update when I do. The first report below is from witness number #1: I talked with a gentleman today, August 10, 2002 about a sighting which was reported to me and the Smithers Interior Newspaper. I asked of course what it was he had witnessed. This fellow is a logging contractor in the area and seems to be a very truthful man. He actually was very surprised and for the life of him, still can't figure out what it was he saw. His description of the object: He said it looked like an oak barrel in shape and made of metal , he guessed the object was approx: 15 feet in height and 10 feet across. From his vantage point (approx: 2000 feet away - altitude). He said there were two projections sticking out from the center of the object, approx: three feet a part and darker in color away from the main body of the craft. The fellow said it had quite a remarkable speed to it, in his estimation the craft was cursing at approx: 300 kilometers which was faster than the small aircraft they see in the area. Also he said there was no sound from the object and it did pass right overhead of him. It flew along side the Smithers airport heading in a southwesterly direction. He described the object as being metallic in color. And again said it was darker in the middle and rotating in the center. ----------------------------- Witness #2 A friend called me outside to look at something as she was very excited. The witness said she did not see it right away. She explained that she looked and looked around in the area where her friend was pointing, and went on to say it was like she had to get her eyes focused to see it. The object was at the right of the airport flying in a southwesterly direction. She said the object was diffidently round in shape and silver (metallic) in color. While they were watching this object, it up and disappeared instantly. I asked approximately what the size of the object may have been. She said it would have been close to the size of a normal wall clock at a approximate distance of a kilometer and a half away. I asked this her the date the event took place, she said her friend (deleted by HBCC UFO) would know for sure. But she guesses it would have been around two weeks ago. (Investigators Note: If the time frame is correct, then the object they seen would have been right around the same time (July 29, 2002) in which 9 witnessed, in different locations watched a HUGE glowing object fly down the valley. She also said there no sound coming from the object. -------------- I telephoned the witness again and asked some question to clarify a couple of things I wanted answers for. Because of all the air traffic which was around the areas, and the description which was given to me by the witnesses, I wondered if this object might have something to do with the military. I had others mention this same idea to me. From the witnesses description, a barrel shaped object with two projections sticking out from the center of the object, would these possibly be propellers which were tuning in the center of this object ? If so, could this then be a military reconnaissance drone ? These are some of the questions in which I would like to know. After discussing the idea with the witness of the object being possibilty a military craft, he said it might just be. This fellow never thought what they all saw was anything out of this world, but something from here on earth. From what all of the witnessed have told me, they figured that what they saw was going to crash into the ground, although know one had seen this take place. ---------- In the next report I will be talking to the two witnesses from the Quick, British Columbia. I spent a little over two hours chatting with both witnesses, a retired school teacher and her son a Civil Engineer. Also her husband was their, a geologist for the government. Take care Brian HBCC UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: JUFOS - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:51:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:04:45 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Speiser >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: JUFOS >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:14:42 EDT >>Subject: JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 10:50:37 -0400 >>>Subject: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 >>>JUFOS is still published on an irregular basis. Unfortunately, I >>>believe the Journal is not supported by its sales and requires >>>an influx of cash (i.e. donations) to get another publication >>>out the door. >>>Another journal that comes to mind is the Journal of Scientific >>>Exloration (JSE), which often has articles of interest to those >>>in this genre. >>>Unfortunately, neither is widely distributed beyond the >>>recipients who have purchasesd individual copies >>But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? >Yes, they do, Bob. I take it that you don't read them, or you >wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. But I do have to ask, when did wide distribution become a requirement for a refereed science journal? As far as I'm concerned, it's refereed, it contains solid science, and it's a journal. End of story.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 'True-Believer' Skeptics [was: F-16 Scramble - From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:57:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:09:26 -0400 Subject: 'True-Believer' Skeptics [was: F-16 Scramble - >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 21:41:23 +0000 <snip> >CSICOP has principles? Or are CSICOP principles like business >ethics, an oxymoron? You have been away for a while! CSICOP has >an agenda (not involving investigation or research) to save the >world from "nuts" like you, me, and Wendy. I maintain that the founding goals of CSICOP were valid. Too bad that they strayed pretty far away from them. There are some - I repeat, some - (did I sound like Stan Friedman there?) good, solid thinkers in CSICOP, and especially those who broke away from it to form more thoughtful organizations, Marcello Truzzi being the prime example. A good skeptic asks the right questions, a 'true-believer' skeptic already has the answers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:15:00 -0400 Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:01:52 -0400 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Hello Jim, Steve: >This is just my personal take. <snip> >I feel it will take nothing less than hard physical evidence, >and I don't mean traces in a field, radar blips, photos and the >like .. all too easily dismissed by critics. Some molten slag >won't do, even if it does contain unusual materials in unlikely >proportions. It _should_ take nothing less than physical evidence to prove that UFOs are ET spacecraft, which is what practically everyone here is either claiming or trying hard not to. I hope someday we find that evidence, but I think we're putting the cart before the horse. What we should be attempting to prove (and I think we've just about done it) is what UFOs are _not_. They are not _all_ misperceptions and hoaxes - something very strange is definitely happening in the skies, something that should not be there in the first place. To my mind, that should be _all_ we should have to say at this point, and good scientists, in a multitude of disciplines, should scratch their heads and say, "Well, I don't believe in Little Grey Men, but I'll be darned if I can come close to explaining these things." At which point they should grab their lab coats and microscopes and start getting their hands dirty trying to come up with the answer. Isn't that what we put them through college for? Guys like you and me shouldn't have to put in decades of research and rack up $500 phone bills. And I maintain we will gain ground faster with the egghead types when we (A) stop insisting on attaching our little pet hypothesis to the data we submit to them, and (B) apply some good ol' country skepticism to filter out the bogus and questionable cases so that we are handing over a solid database. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:18:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Speiser >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:12:11 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:47:41 -0700 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:11:27 -0400 >>>Subject: Lawton Triangles Hoax >>>The Lawton Triangles "sightings" are now admitted hoaxes. See: >>>http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/Lawtontriangle.html. >>Bruce: >>Do you think this event underscores the end of the "photo- >>analysis" era of Ufology? With digital cameras, cut-and-paste, >>and the 'lasso tool', how are we to ever trust a photo, even a >>thoroughly analysed one, again? >>Are there ways of detecting these things? Without a negative? >This is the modern version of a question I was asked perhaps 10 >years ago by some documentary producer... with all the computer >ability now available, how can we trust any photos (even photos >printed on paper, which could be created from negatives created >in a computer....)? >The answer is, and always has been, hoax by photo can be done. >Hang a model and photograph it works with the old, lame, but >tried and true 'wet' photography as well as the >'cyberphotography'. The difference is that now one can 'hang a >computer model' instead of a real, 3-D object. >The Trents were accused of faking their photos. So what is new? >Basically nothing. Have to be careful. Have to have >investigation taking place over a long time... give hoaxer time >to complain if there is nothing done with his/her photo. Etc. >Smoked out a Gulf Breeze hoax this way (photos sent to newspaper >were similar to Ed's... but anonymous... so we didn't do >anything with them. >Photographer called the newspaper... "why hasn't anything been >done with my pix?" Told that the pix were not that interesting. >Later he supplied more pix that were "more interesting." >HAHAHAHAH Years later found out it was a TV cameraman, I >believe, who did it... to prove a point of course!). >The main lesson here is not the photo hoaxing, but the fact that >some one is willing to undergo investigation, albeit not the >best type (which is on-the-spot, face to face, etc.). As long as >there are "disinformationists" around, we have to be very >careful. I'm again reminded of Maccabee's Law, that the hoax hypothesis is non-disprovable. You could have a hundred videotapes of the same object, all taken by nuns, and someone, somewhere, will say, "See how good these hoaxers have gotten?" To which I add Speiser's Corollary, that the hoax hypothesis is non-provable. For example in the Lawton Triangles case, it is theoretically possible to suggest that the photos are genuine, but some MIBs/Disinfo agents got a hold of a newsgroup that they knew would eventually make it to your eyes, and fabricated a message designed to make you _think_ it was a hoax, when it was actually genuine. And don't think some people haven't made claims as wild as that - cf Billy Meier. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:20:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:45:53 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 00:44:55 EDT >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >>Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants >>I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >>(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >>kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >>ago. Hi Robert, >>The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >>since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >>20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >>Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >>advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >>(public) attention. You responded: >Its a question many of us have been asking/wondering about as >well since Lier/Sims showed up on the scene. Alot of surgery, >alot of talk, a few photos and nadda, zip nothing...unless of >course you go to Laughlin or some of the other UFO lecture >circuit favorites. Ahhh the UFO lecture circuit... paid air fares, hotel rooms, and if you're a 'big name', a speakers fee. No business like show business. It would all be worth the trouble if the presentations being made at these many conferences dealt with new information that had been derived from thorough investigation and rigorous scientific research/analysis. Research conducted by independent experts and professionals with no _vested_ interest in the outcome. Then, if nothing else, we'd all be learning more and more about the true nature of the phenomena. Instead of remaining mired in this perpetually stagnant limbo regarding an enigma that has proven to be life-disrupting for many thousands of people. It's high time we all started to demand strong credentials, experience and the very best from anyone in ufology who claims the title "researcher" or "investigator." Right out of the box we'd lose about 80% of what is currently 'dead weight' to ufology. Real people have had their lives turned upside-down by this phenomenon. We need reliable answers... and we needed them _yesterday._ >>Both Lier and Sims promised to publish any analysis results >>in peer review journals when they were attempting to justify the >>unusual elective surgical procedures. Never happened. Nothing >>has ever been published in any medical or scientific journals >>that I know of. >I am sure that Lier and Sims would have some kind of story about >how the editors of the various journals did not want to publish >the story, blah blah blah. The bottom line is; we don't have to take crap or accept second best from anyone. People who don't deliver the goods should not be supported with book purchases or ticket purchases at conferences. If _we_ boycott these side-show men, they'll soon move on and find a more lucrative hustle. It's our own fault. We encourage them with our dollars. Like the CIA with Noriega and Saddam... we create these monsters ourselves. Take away their incentive -our greenbacks- and many of these donkeys will move on and seek out 'greener' pastures elsewhere. >>Oh sorry, Dr. Lier wrote and marketed a book about it. And... oh >>yeah, he's been busy making the rounds of the UFO lecture >>circuit and mass media for the last five years. >Gee, doesn't that count as peer reviewed scientific >research....? :) <lol> >>I can say that much for his 'accomplishments.' >>But... what benefit has there been for the abductees? How much >>more do we know now, 20+ surgeries later, than we knew five >>years ago? >Not much, other then what you get in the book. That's the whole point of these posts! :) The 'real issue' is the morality and ethics involved in the use of so many human subjects for invasive surgical procedures that essentially have not produced any tangible results whatsoever. If _any_ of the recovered objects have proven to be anomalous in nature or composition, then where are those analysis results? Why haven't they been published anywhere other than Leir's book? >>Once again I ask... "How many _more_ have to undergo invasive >>surgery before enough becomes enough?" These are after all, >>human beings we're discussing, not cattle. Does it bother >>anybody else? >It is rather disturbing. Very. I am genuinely surprised that this guy hasn't been hauled before a California medical review board. >Was there ever some kind of Lier/Sims to NIDS research >connection? Oh you bet! Sims used to go on about his 'association' with NIDS and how together, they were going to blow the lid off this abduction thing. Louis Armstrong would have been envious of Sims's horn blowing. >If there was it could be they are gagged by >confidentiality agreements similar to the ones the press >reported the former Utah ranch owners were bound by. I'm sure that part of the NIDS staff is composed of lawyers. There had to have been 'paper' between them. The real question is; who were they helping, the abductees or themselves? The answer lies in what has been accomplished so far by this disturbing series of surgeries. Poorly executed and inconclusive analysis results from NIDS, ( that, according to reviews of the data and the methods used by NIDS written by knowledgeable people,) a book by Dr. Leir, and many appearances by the pair of them on the UFO lecture circuit. You take it from there. Hey Robert, how was that for a neat piece of 'surgery'? :) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: JUFOS - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:45:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:47:10 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Clark >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 22:39:48 EDT >Subject: Re: JUFOS >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0500 >>Subject: Re: JUFOS >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:14:42 EDT >>>Subject: JUFOS [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>>But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? >>Yes, they do, Bob. I take it that you don't read them, or you >>wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. >> >Yes, I've read them. The discussion started with the idea that >Ufology needs peer-reviewed journals. These names came up and >Steve noted that they aren't widely read. >Thus, my question, are they peer-reviewed? >Thanks for the info. Glad to read that you read them, Bob. Apologies for the impatient tone of my response. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Authorities Dismiss UFO Attacks As Mass Hysteria From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:56:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:49:44 -0400 Subject: Authorities Dismiss UFO Attacks As Mass Hysteria Source: CNN Europe http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/13/india.ufo/index.html Stig *** Indians blame mystery attacks on UFOs August 13, 2002 Posted: 1015 GMT Staff and wires ** SHANWA, India -- Panic-stricken Indian villagers are blaming UFOs for a spate of attacks that have killed several people and injured many others in Uttar Pradesh state. Villagers in this poor region say as night falls, a flying sphere, emitting red and blue lights, hones in on their homes. In the past week seven people have died of unexplained injuries, while many others have been burnt. Ramji Pal, was one such fatality, dying recently in Shanwa. His neighbor, Raghuraj Pal told The Associated Press that "a mysterious flying object attacked him in the night." "His stomach was ripped open. He died two days later." Many others have suffered scratches and surface wounds, which they say were inflicted while they slept. In the village of Darra, 53-year-old Kalawati told AP she was attacked last week and displayed blisters on her blackened forearms. "It was like a big soccer ball with sparkling lights," said Kalawati, who uses only one name. "It burned my skin." "I can't sleep because of pain," she said. Mass hysteria But doctors have dismissed the stories as mass hysteria. "More often than not the victims have unconsciously inflicted the symptoms themselves," AP quoted Narrotam Lal, a doctor at King George's Medical College in Lucknow, the state capital, as saying. Just last year, Indian police concluded that a mysterious "Monkey Man," which instilled terror in New Delhi, was simply "mass hysteria" and a product of the city's collective imagination. A probe by forensic experts and psychiatrists said the supposed half man - half beast was a "mere figment of the imagination of emotionally weak people," The Times of India said, quoting police sources. Then, large colonies in the capital city were gripped by fear of attacks after dozens of people reported they were bitten or clawed by the nocturnal "monkey man." At least three people panicked and fell to their deaths from buildings during the two-week saga because they were convinced the attacker -- described varyingly as a monkey- like creature with metallic claws and a cat with tawny, glowing eyes -- was pursuing them. Bugs or aliens? But in this year's attack, police have admitted that it could be more than just a figment of the imagination. For their part, they have blamed bugs. "It is a three-and-a-half-inch-long winged insect" that leaves rashes and superficial wounds, Kavindra P. Singh, a superintendent of police, told the Press Trust of India news agency. Police drew this conclusion after residents of one village found insects they had never seen before. But villagers remain unconvinced. In the most affected area, the Mirzapur district, 440 miles (710 km) southeast of New Delhi, people have stopped sleeping outdoors despite sweltering heat and frequent power outages. And as happened last year in the capital, villagers have formed protection squads that patrol Shanwa, beating drums and shouting slogans such as, "Everyone alert. Attackers beware." Some accuse district officials of inaction and failure to capture the "aliens." One person died Thursday in nearby Sitapur when police fired shots to disperse a 10,000-strong crowd demanding that authorities capture the mysterious attackers. "People just block the roads and attack the police for inaction each time there's a death or injury," said Amrit Abhijat, Mirzapur's district magistrate, who claims he has captured the UFO on film. At the height of the 'Monkey Man' panic in 2001, vigilante groups armed with sticks patrolled New Delhi's streets at night on the lookout for the creature while police announced a 50,000 rupee ($1,067) reward for information leading to its capture. ** Copyright 2002 CNN. All rights reserved. Associated Press contributed to this report.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: JUFOS - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:20:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:51:48 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Sandow >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: JUFOS >>But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? >Yes, they do, Bob. I take it that you don't read them, or you >wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. JUFOS indeed is peer-reviewed. The peers are scholars and scientists with a friendly interest in UFOs. Skeptics very likely grumble that these people are _too_ friendly to UFOs, but they all have respectable standing in their academic fields. Nor would the papers JUFOS publishes give anyone the idea that UFOs were getting an easy ride. This is serious stuff. What's most interesting though, as a sidelight to this discussion, is that scientists themselves no longer think publication in peer-reviewed journals is necessary. I've learned this from two sources - from an article on the subject in The New York Times, and from a scientist I know, a physicst who did classified work for years at Los Alamos, and now works in private industry. Many scientists now simply publish their papers on the web, without waiting for peer-reviewed journals to accept them. These papers are then picked apart on the web by the scientists' colleagues. Many scientists apparently find this both quicker and more rigorous than the normal method. That is, they get more and sharper criticism from a greater variety of people. The New York Times piece took a very dim view of all this, implying (if I remember correctly) that the wildness of the web was now turning science into nonsense. The scientist I know - a very sober, experienced guy - doesn't agree. Among other things, he thinks the new method prevents a few conservatives at journals from delaying the publication of controversial ideas. I have to stress that this physicist is not, himself, controversial, and as far as I know has never done work that's out on any edge. He certainly has no interest in UFOs, or anything else paranormal. So his critique of traditional peer review caught my attention. So there it is - science is turning into UFO UpDates! With one big exception, though. You don't normally find people without scientific training debating the papers that bypass scientific journals, and appear on the web. Scientists who take this route can trust that the people commenting on their work are fully qualified colleagues. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:39:31 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:53:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:32:11 +0000 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:32:42 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs <snip> >I agree with this. What we should do is spend some time >debunking the skeptibunkers and showing up how silly and >unfounded many of their arguments are (that's different from >trying to "satisfy" or persuade them of anything; that certainly >is a waste of time). >For example, Bob Young's ludicrous take on the Ravenna (1966) >and Ohio helicopter (1973) cases, and John Rimmer's ludicrous >take on the Trindade Isle, Brazil (1958) photo case. They know >in advance that all such cases CANNOT BE anything other than >trivial phenomena, while keeping their butts firmly glued to >their armchairs. Dick: That'll be productive. After all, in 55 years you haven't been able to prove that a single flying saucer has ever been chased for 90 miles by Officer Friendly. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Marysville, Ohio Report - One Strange Story Leads From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:33:08 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:57:37 -0400 Subject: Marysville, Ohio Report - One Strange Story Leads This afternoon I spoke with a resident of Marysville, Ohio. His name and telephone number will not be disclosed in this report, but he is a married 24-year-old employee of a Walmart store in Easton, Ohio (near Columbus). He had told family members of a suspected UFO sighting and through indirect channels word of his report came to my attention yesterday. I caught the witness off-guard when reaching him at home this morning. He said that he was surprised someone had known that he had seen something interesting. "I don't know what the hell I saw," he said, "but it made absolutely no noise." The witness was driving home from work early Tuesday morning on July 30 at around 1:26 a.m., headed west along U.S. Rt. 33 toward Marysville. He had just passed under the Scotts Lawn Road overpass when a bright flash to his left caught his attention. To the southwest of his location, the witness describes an intense bluish-white light which originated from the ground and climbed into the sky at an angular path. "I would say it came from somewhere about a quarter-of-a-mile away from my location, somewhere from behind the warehouses at Scotts Plant or the Goodyear factory," he said. The witness described the source of light as a blue and purple object the size of a quarter held at arms length, and also characterized it as an intense, bright light that was visible for about 5-seconds. As the light projected upward at an angle from his right to his left, it left numerous luminescent 'trailers' in its wake. The trailers, he said, seemed to brighten and dim in intensity in places as it followed the light, and was about the size of a shoe held at arms length. "This trailer was about 25-times the size of the light," he said, "and seemed to pulse in places, as if you would drag a charcoal pencil across a piece of paper real light, pushing it harder as you went left to right and then backed off and gradually pushed harder again." He said the purple and blue intense light then disappeared into 'nothing' and the white trailer following the light also disappeared at that instant. There was no light residue left behind that he could detect. He said that his visibility of the object was unhindered and not obstructed by trees, buildings or telephone poles. This is a flat area with fairly good, unobstructed visibility, he said. The witness then pulled his car over to the side of the road in disbelief. He said that after contemplating over what he had just seen, he called the Union County Sheriff's Dept. from his cell-phone. "I told them that I know this sounds stupid, but somebody should know about this object," he said. "It was no meteor and it was no airplane. This thing came from somewhere over behind the factory and warehouses and climbed into the sky, moving right to left from my perspective. "The dispatcher did not mention whether or not there were other calls on the flash," the witness said, "but they would send a deputy. I left my phone number but never got a call back." The witness then called a relative who is employed at the Goodyear factory to ask if anyone there knew about the event. The relative informed that he and a co-worker had been outside during a smoke break and also saw a flash of light, but presumed it was an exploding light bulb somewhere. INVESTIGATION In advance of talking with this witness, last night I called the security gate at the Goodyear Conveyor Belt factory in Marysville, Ohio at 1-800-235-8872 and spoke with the security officer (name on file). I explained the nature of my call to the guard and he did say that there was a strange event he witnessed during daylight hours about two weeks ago. This incident, as he reported, involved a massive four-engine jet that stalled to a near-hover around Route 33, in the immediate area of the Goodyear factory. "I was here one day about two weeks ago," he said, "and a four engine jet came down to around 500-feet off the ground and just sat there, barely moving. It was definitely a jet, no prop job." The security guard at the Goodyear Conveyor Belt Division of 13601 Industrial Parkway in Marysville, Ohio said that the plane meandered about in one small area around 1/4th of a mile east of the security office in an area about U.S. Route 33, which he said was comparable to an interstate highway in places. "My first impression was that he was trying to land. I'd say he was definitely in trouble. This was a big plane and it was barely moving," he said, "it was such a large plane that there is no place around Marysville to land anything that big." The security guard was not sure if the aircraft was a civilian or military plane, but said it was a dark gray color. "When I first seen it, it was 3/4 mile south of me. I thought he was just over the treetops. His engines were not sounding right. "Then suddenly he put the smoke out like you wouldn't believe and took off," the guard said. "There was fire coming out of the engines of the jet and when he took off he was roaring good. It shook everything around here and this thing climbed straight up and banked off to the right and just cut away." The guard emphasized the speed of the aircraft's departure: "When he started climbing he moved out." The security officer was pressed for detail about the ballistic conduct of the aircraft. He said that while the plane did not quite hover, it did move far too low and slow for a plane that size. The plane did never stop and hold stationary at any time, but kept moving very slow and losing altitude as if it were landing. The security officer said that he had placed an advisory telephone call to the Union County Sheriff's department about the airplane. The dispatcher at the sheriff's office told the Goodyear security guard that they were aware of the situation but had no explanation. "Apparently they were on the radio with him at some point, I think," the security guard said. "The jet started to gain speed and altitude and this black smoke just kicked in and the plane started roaring and took off." "I didn't see anything in the news or anything," never heard anything on the scanner. The security officer said that one other person at the plant had remarked that they thought the plane was looking for a place to land. The guard said the plane was meandering low in the area for around 10 to 15-minutes. The security guard asked who I was and I explained to him that I am trying to find information concerning a an unusual object reported in the sky near the Goodyear plant, happening some time at night in the past two weeks and said to have involved a glowing purple cloud. He said that he only works night shift one day a week and has no knowledge of any such report. The security guard went on to freely tell me of two previous occasions in which he may have observed a UFO, one taking place about a year earlier when he was driving east of West Liberty, Ohio and saw a light on the horizon that appeared to "arch around the curvature of the earth." He said he watched this object for about 10-minutes. He added that a second strange happening he witnessed was nearly twenty years ago when there was an aerial explosion which lit the night sky for almost 10- minutes. He said the residual glow was so bright that one could read a newspaper for several minutes. He called the police and news media and later heard that a meteor had been seen over Wisconsin. COMMENT The primary claimant may be describing a celestial event widely reported around the Cincinnati, Ohio vicinity during the same time of Tuesday morning, July 29, 2002 around the 1:30 a.m. time frame. It was first thought the flash in the sky, possibly a meteoric event, was localized exclusively to the Cincinnati region, but this report suggests the flash was seen over a wider area of Southern Ohio, at least as far north as Marysville. The primary claimant said that the object he saw in Marysville had 'climbed' from an area behind the Goodyear factory. His perception of the 1/4 mile distance of the object from his vantage point was likely a misperception. He did say that the area was flat land with unobstructed visibility of the horizon. Rather than the rising from the ground, it likely appeared first along the horizon from his perspective (perhaps localized above Cincinnati as per his south-west reference) and then seemed to 'rise' from his perspective as the incoming projectile assumed its ablative path. Perhaps the rising aspect may be due to the curvature of the earth. There has been debate on Cincinnati radio stations concerning the nature of the flash, some saying it was a meteor while other saying it was a maneuvering object. Video of the flash was recorded by a North College Hill Police officer and is now in the possession of MUFON investigator Donnie Blessing and pending further analysis. The claim of a 'low flying' 4-engine jetliner that had seemed to stall in a 'near hovering' situation later seen in the same vicinity of the eyewitness sighting of the flash is an unusual addition to the report. Filed, August 13, 2002 Kenny Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:52:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:02:40 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Ledger >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:13:38 +0000 >>From: Jeff Kline <JeKline@FDIC.gov> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 06:58:40 -0400 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>EBK, for investigators and readers alike. >>Found another article regarding the subject named sighting and >>it has quotes from Military sources to boot: >>http://channels.netscape.com/ns/atplay/content.jsp?file=alien1.inc >>Jeff >Jeff, >These "quotes from military sources" are old-hat and as >superficial as ever. Presumably by your e-mail address you live >in the Washington, D.C., area. Perhaps you should get in touch >with me and/or the Fund for UFO Research. Hi Dick and Jeff, The media use certain buzz words to sell papers. Note the use of "took off with air-air missiles aboard". During the present state of affairs what else would they be carrying? Perhaps bouquets of flowers to throw at a potential enemy? The little flying saucer was cute. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 13 Authorities Dismiss UFO Attacks As Mass Hysteria From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:56:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:49:44 -0400 Subject: Authorities Dismiss UFO Attacks As Mass Hysteria Source: CNN Europe http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/13/india.ufo/index.html Stig *** Indians blame mystery attacks on UFOs August 13, 2002 Posted: 1015 GMT Staff and wires ** SHANWA, India -- Panic-stricken Indian villagers are blaming UFOs for a spate of attacks that have killed several people and injured many others in Uttar Pradesh state. Villagers in this poor region say as night falls, a flying sphere, emitting red and blue lights, hones in on their homes. In the past week seven people have died of unexplained injuries, while many others have been burnt. Ramji Pal, was one such fatality, dying recently in Shanwa. His neighbor, Raghuraj Pal told The Associated Press that "a mysterious flying object attacked him in the night." "His stomach was ripped open. He died two days later." Many others have suffered scratches and surface wounds, which they say were inflicted while they slept. In the village of Darra, 53-year-old Kalawati told AP she was attacked last week and displayed blisters on her blackened forearms. "It was like a big soccer ball with sparkling lights," said Kalawati, who uses only one name. "It burned my skin." "I can't sleep because of pain," she said. Mass hysteria But doctors have dismissed the stories as mass hysteria. "More often than not the victims have unconsciously inflicted the symptoms themselves," AP quoted Narrotam Lal, a doctor at King George's Medical College in Lucknow, the state capital, as saying. Just last year, Indian police concluded that a mysterious "Monkey Man," which instilled terror in New Delhi, was simply "mass hysteria" and a product of the city's collective imagination. A probe by forensic experts and psychiatrists said the supposed half man - half beast was a "mere figment of the imagination of emotionally weak people," The Times of India said, quoting police sources. Then, large colonies in the capital city were gripped by fear of attacks after dozens of people reported they were bitten or clawed by the nocturnal "monkey man." At least three people panicked and fell to their deaths from buildings during the two-week saga because they were convinced the attacker -- described varyingly as a monkey- like creature with metallic claws and a cat with tawny, glowing eyes -- was pursuing them. Bugs or aliens? But in this year's attack, police have admitted that it could be more than just a figment of the imagination. For their part, they have blamed bugs. "It is a three-and-a-half-inch-long winged insect" that leaves rashes and superficial wounds, Kavindra P. Singh, a superintendent of police, told the Press Trust of India news agency. Police drew this conclusion after residents of one village found insects they had never seen before. But villagers remain unconvinced. In the most affected area, the Mirzapur district, 440 miles (710 km) southeast of New Delhi, people have stopped sleeping outdoors despite sweltering heat and frequent power outages. And as happened last year in the capital, villagers have formed protection squads that patrol Shanwa, beating drums and shouting slogans such as, "Everyone alert. Attackers beware." Some accuse district officials of inaction and failure to capture the "aliens." One person died Thursday in nearby Sitapur when police fired shots to disperse a 10,000-strong crowd demanding that authorities capture the mysterious attackers. "People just block the roads and attack the police for inaction each time there's a death or injury," said Amrit Abhijat, Mirzapur's district magistrate, who claims he has captured the UFO on film. At the height of the 'Monkey Man' panic in 2001, vigilante groups armed with sticks patrolled New Delhi's streets at night on the lookout for the creature while police announced a 50,000 rupee ($1,067) reward for information leading to its capture. ** Copyright 2002 CNN. All rights reserved. Associated Press contributed to this report.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:52:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:01:56 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Ledger >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:13:38 +0000 >>From: Jeff Kline <JeKline@FDIC.gov> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 06:58:40 -0400 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>EBK, for investigators and readers alike. >>Found another article regarding the subject named sighting and >>it has quotes from Military sources to boot: >>http://channels.netscape.com/ns/atplay/content.jsp?file=alien1.inc >These "quotes from military sources" are old-hat and as >superficial as ever. Presumably by your e-mail address you live >in the Washington, D.C., area. Perhaps you should get in touch >with me and/or the Fund for UFO Research. >- Dick Hall Hi Dick and Jeff, The media use certain buzz words to sell papers. Note the use of "took off with air-air missiles aboard". During the present state of affairs what else would they be carrying? Perhaps bouquets of flowers to throw at a potential enemy? The little flying saucer was cute. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Attacking UFOs Filmed By Indian District From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:00:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:07:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Attacking UFOs Filmed By Indian District >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:58:44 +0200 >Subject: Attacking UFOs Filmed By Indian District Magistrate? >Source: AP via The Globe And Mail - Canada = >http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20020812/wufoo= 81 >2/Front/homeBN/breakingnews >Stig >*** >'Flying sphere' attacks Indian villagers >Associated Press >Monday, August 12 -- Online Edition, Posted at 4:20 PM EST ** This could be the answer: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/07aug_horseflies.htm Regards, Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Dale Goudie's E-Address? From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 19:47:15 +0200 (CEST) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:09:32 -0400 Subject: Dale Goudie's E-Address? I will appreciate receiving privately the email address of Mr Dale Goudie, of Seattle, WA. Many thanks, Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Physical Evidence - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:19:40 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:12:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Young >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 >Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >It _should_ take nothing less than physical evidence to prove >that UFOs are ET spacecraft, which is what practically everyone >here is either claiming or trying hard not to. >I hope someday we find that evidence, but I think we're putting >the cart before the horse. >What we should be attempting to prove (and I think we've just >about done it) is what UFOs are _not_. >They are not _all_ misperceptions and hoaxes - something very >strange is definitely happening in the skies, something that >should not be there in the first place. >To my mind, that should be _all_ we should have to say at this >point, and good scientists, in a multitude of disciplines, >should scratch their heads and say, "Well, I don't believe in >Little Grey Men, but I'll be darned if I can come close to >explaining these things." At which point they should grab their >lab coats and microscopes and start getting their hands dirty >trying to come up with the answer. Isn't that what we put them >through college for? >Guys like you and me shouldn't have to put in decades of >research and rack up $500 phone bills. And I maintain we will >gain ground faster with the egghead types when we (A) stop >insisting on attaching our little pet hypothesis to the data we >submit to them, and (B) apply some good ol' country skepticism >to filter out the bogus and questionable cases so that we are >handing over a solid database. Jim, Larry: That's a pretty good prescription, without harder evidence, IMO. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Physical Evidence - Sanchez-Ocejo From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:14:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Sanchez-Ocejo >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 >Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >It _should_ take nothing less than physical evidence to prove >that UFOs are ET spacecraft, which is what practically everyone >here is either claiming or trying hard not to. The public interest in Ufology derives from the idea that UFOs are space vehicles sent to earth from some place in the universe. I learned, from the late Dr. Allen Hynek, to be more cautious in our support of the ET hypothesis. He implied that some vastly important scientific phenomenon or some big secret, which he hoped to find out, may lie behind the UFO mystery. He never find it or if he knew it he never said it. I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for alternative hypothesis others than the ET spacecraft, and which one you think, the alternatives, are? Regards, Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:30:16 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:20:01 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - White >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:22:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:03:44 +0000 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:13:14 -0700 >>>I define "scientific knowledge", or more correctly, "science >>>knowledge", as that knowledge obtained through the rigorous use >>>of the scientific method - to misquote Churchill, the _worst_ >>>method of obtaining knowledge of the universe...except for all >>>the others. >>_Today's_ Scientific Method _is_ the worst method for studying >>UFOs and all other phenomena which cannot be consistently re- >>created on demand by the experimenter. UFOlogy, in my opinion, >>can only be studied by the Scientific Method once the method is >>amended so that rules covering not consistently controllable >>phenomena are in place. Rules which are acceptable to a large >>majority of mainstream scientists. >>Today's scientific puzzles are often of the not >>_consistently_ recreate-able type. >>Obviously, alien civilizations have been able to do this or they >>would not be flying around our skies. Any reason humankind can't >>do the same? >To be fair, repeatability is not required by the "Scientific >Method". As you note, many of today's scientific puzzles cannot >be called up on demand. All we can do is gather whatever >evidence we can to try and explain it. Let's not toss the >scientific method out the window quite yet. Yet many scientists demand 100% repeatability by everyone who tries the experiment. That is obviously part of a general understanding, rightly or wrongly. And I'm not suggesting "tossing out" the Scientific Method, just stating that it needs updating. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: JUFOS - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:22:06 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Speiser >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:20:34 -0400 >Subject: Re: JUFOS <snip> >So there it is - science is turning into UFO UpDates! With one >big exception, though. You don't normally find people without >scientific training debating the papers that bypass scientific >journals, and appear on the web. Scientists who take this route >can trust that the people commenting on their work are fully >qualified colleagues. How? ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:41:34 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:24:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:39:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 20:32:11 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:32:42 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>I agree with this. What we should do is spend some time >>debunking the skeptibunkers and showing up how silly and >>unfounded many of their arguments are (that's different from >>trying to "satisfy" or persuade them of anything; that certainly >>is a waste of time). >>For example, Bob Young's ludicrous take on the Ravenna (1966) >>and Ohio helicopter (1973) cases, and John Rimmer's ludicrous >>take on the Trindade Isle, Brazil (1958) photo case. They know >>in advance that all such cases CANNOT BE anything other than >>trivial phenomena, while keeping their butts firmly glued to >>their armchairs. >That'll be productive. After all, in 55 years you haven't been >able to prove that a single flying saucer has ever been chased >for 90 miles by Officer Friendly. Bob, I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but presumably it is intended as some kind of put-down of people like me who have spent a lifetime studying serious evidence and reasoning about UFOs in a very scientific manner. I am, after all, formally trained in logic and scientific method (can you say the same)? You engage in sophistic rhetoric that has little substance. What, in this instance, is your definition of "flying saucer?" Your definition of "proof?" Wherein have you ever either proved or disproved anything relative to hardcore UFO sightings like Ravenna or Trindade Isle? All you do is smugly assume, without investigation (I had to give you the published references about the Ravenna case and other cases, for example, after you had already made up your mind) that human witnesses are all slack-jawed idiots. Your pretense of being anything resembling a rational critic is unconvincing, to say the least. Have you read The UFO Evidence, Volume II, wherein I make a very strong case about the long-term patterns of UFO sightings and why the psychosocial argument (which you implicitly accept) makes no sense? If so (which I seriously doubt, just like I doubt that you have really read and studied JUFOS or SSE articles on UFOs), I challenge you to a debate on particular cases and particular methodological issues. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: JUFOS - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:49:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:26:23 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Velez >From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:20:34 -0400 >Subject: Re: JUFOS >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <UFOupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0500 >>Subject: Re: JUFOS >>>But do they qualify as peer-reviewed journals? >>Yes, they do, Bob. I take it that you don't read them, or you >>wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. >JUFOS indeed is peer-reviewed. The peers are scholars and >scientists with a friendly interest in UFOs. Skeptics very >likely grumble that these people are _too_ friendly to UFOs, but >they all have respectable standing in their academic fields. Nor >would the papers JUFOS publishes give anyone the idea that UFOs >were getting an easy ride. This is serious stuff. >What's most interesting though, as a sidelight to this >discussion, is that scientists themselves no longer think >publication in peer-reviewed journals is necessary. I've learned >this from two sources - from an article on the subject in The >New York Times, and from a scientist I know, a physicst who did >classified work for years at Los Alamos, and now works in >private industry. Many scientists now simply publish their >papers on the web, without waiting for peer-reviewed journals to >accept them. >These papers are then picked apart on the web by the scientists' >colleagues. Many scientists apparently find this both quicker >and more rigorous than the normal method. That is, they get more >and sharper criticism from a greater variety of people. The New >York Times piece took a very dim view of all this, implying (if >I remember correctly) that the wildness of the web was now >turning science into nonsense. The scientist I know - a very >sober, experienced guy - doesn't agree. Among other things, he >thinks the new method prevents a few conservatives at journals >from delaying the publication of controversial ideas. I have to >stress that this physicist is not, himself, controversial, and >as far as I know has never done work that's out on any edge. He >certainly has no interest in UFOs, or anything else paranormal. >So his critique of traditional peer review caught my attention. >So there it is - science is turning into UFO UpDates! With one >big exception, though. You don't normally find people without >scientific training debating the papers that bypass scientific >journals, and appear on the web. Scientists who take this route >can trust that the people commenting on their work are fully >qualified colleagues. Hi Greg, Sidebar... Question: Do you recall all those 'alien script' samples that were submitted to Stuart Appelle some years ago for analysis? One of the samples that was submitted was mine and I'm curious what -if anything- ever became of that proposed study. The results were to be published in JUFOS and I don't recall ever hearing another word about it. Was anything ever done with them? *Long time no see. We have to hook up. I'll call. :) Best, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:40:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:15:06 EDT >Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >In a recent thread the discussion came up about scientific >knowledge and how it relates to the topic of UFOs. >It would be worth while to observe that topics and material that >are supposedly locked in stone, without a doubt, generally >accepted as scientific, do in fact change. >For example it was known/believed/theorized/taught as fact for >many years that the universe was around 4.8 billion years old. >Lo' and behold scientists get a picture from Hubble and tell us >that the correct age of the universe is actually 12-14 or so >billion years old. Adding 10-12 billion years on to the age of >the universe is a rather extradordinary claim that in theory >would require some sort of extradordinary evidence... right? >Wrong. >They made this pronouncement on the basis of photographic >interpretation of photographs. >In essence they claim to have found pockets of so called older >matter in the photographs. >Now one would expect the cronies at CSICOP to be all over that. >After all, it was only based on photographic interpretation and >no one actually has any so called physical evidence (such as a >sample of this older matter that could be taken to independent >labs and have rigirous testing on to verify that it in fact is >older) to prove such an incredible claim. >Now, had these same scientists advanced the claim solely on >photographic interpretation that UFOs exist, the same >skeptibunkers would be blathering about why we "need" physical >evidence, why the evidence needs to be tested 20 times over at >20 different labs, why we can't trust photo interpretation etc >etc. >Now some Australian scientists have suggested/proposed that the >speed of light is not consistant and the charge of an electron >can change. It has not been pronounced as fact yet like the age >of the Universe but it is heading in that direction. >We have discussed in the past why the UFO subject essentially >gets no or very little respect in the so called mainstream >scientific community. >It is up to _us_ to be the mainstream leaders on UFO and UFO >related research. >For example, Geologists only look at Geological issues, >Meterologists only look at weather, Astronomers only look at >the stars and so forth. Usually they tend to only be interested >in some discovery in some other field _only_ if it has some >application to something they are working on in their field. >Bottom line is it is up to us. We also shouldn't spend a great >deal of time trying to satisfy the skeptibunkers because they >never will be satisfied. Hi Robert, Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments than it is to try to convince them of anything. And I agree, we all need to take some responsibility for 'ufology' as members of the community. On a grass-roots level that translates into our supporting (with our dollars) those who are attempting to conduct serious research, and boycotting others who are not. Wait and see how many charlatans and con-men leave the field once people stop attending their lectures and purchasing their books. The only practical method of removing a lot of the 'clutter in ufology is to cut off the flow of green-backs to certain individuals - who are nothing more than parasites anyway. Regards, right on, well said, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 'Athens News' On Prinous UFO From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:54:55 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:44:05 -0400 Subject: 'Athens News' On Prinous UFO Source: Athens News http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?e=C&f=&t=01&m=A08&aa=7 Stig *** FRIDAY , 09 AUGUST 2002 No. 12974 Trikala villagers spot 'UFO' signs in sky, field ** There were reports early on August 7 of bright lights in the sky over the village of Prinous in the Koziakas municipality (population 3,000), in Trikala prefecture in central Greece. Many Prinos villagers believe the strange markings left in one man's fields were caused by an alien UFO. The alien furore began on the morning of August 7. One villager rushed to the local cafe to report a strange sight. He said he had witnessed a strange "circle", about ten metres in diameter and full of small holes, "land" in his field and create holes up to 20cm deep. Half of his fellow villagers immediately rushed to the field. Though the new US box-office hit Signs showing Mel Gibson in a similar predicament hasn't been released in Greece yet, many of them now believe it was a UFO. Now UFO-mania has swept Prinous, with each resident attempting to offer an explanation for the event. Many villagers share the man's conviction that the "signs" are the work of alien visitors. Children of the neighbouring village say that, at the same time of the "sighting", they saw bright lights in the sky, which descended onto the spot where his field is located. Another farmer, who was in his field at the same time, also reports that he saw a huge object land in his neighbour's field. It isn't the first time a UFO sighting has been reported in the area, says ANA newswire. (ANA, Athens News) ** ATHENS NEWS , 09/08/2002 , page: A08 Article code: C12974A087 Copyright 1995-2002 ATHENS NEWS S.A., 3 C. Lada str. Athens 102 37, GREECE tel: 33 33 555, fax: 32 31 384
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Kathmandu Post: UFO Creates Panic In Border Area From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 04:16:00 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:47:21 -0400 Subject: Kathmandu Post: UFO Creates Panic In Border Area Source: The Kathmandu Post - Nepal http://www.nepalnews.com.np/contents/englishdaily/ktmpost/2002/aug/aug10/loc= al.htm Stig *** Kathmandu, Saturday August 10, 2002 Shrawan 25, 2059. <snip> Mysterious object creates panic across border area Post Report ** NEPALGUNJ, Aug 9:One woman died and 10 others sustained injuries after an unidentified object began attacking people across the Nepal-India border for the last couple of days. A 40-year-old woman of Shrabasti district in India succumbed to the attack of the object. The attack that usually comes in secluded area at night has created panicky among the people who are compelled to remain on high alert throughout the night. Authorities of both the countries have failed to identify the object that resembles a fire-flame and disappears quickly after hitting the people. Victims said that it normally the face of a person sleeping on the roof or outside his home. The people of downtown area of this border city remained on high alert throughout Thursday night when the unfounded object reportedly appeared there. But nobody came under its attack, locals said. The people of border villages in India claimed that the flame seems to be infrared before hitting a person and turns blue afterward. Victims who came for treatment in a local health centre said that shape of the object was something like square and weighed about 15 to 20 kilograms. Although Nepalese security officials did not make any comment about it, Indian authorities suspect that it was the handy work of some miscreants who wanted to create panic in the area. <snip> Send your comments and letters to the editor at kanti@kpost.mos.com.np 2002 =A9 Mercantile Communications Pvt. Ltd. P.O. Box 876, Durbar Marg, Kathmandu, NEPAL. Tel : 977 1 220 773, 243566, Fax: 977 1 225 407. ** Reproduction in any form is prohibited without prior permission. No part of the articles which appear in the internet version on The Kathmandu Post may be reproduced without the permission of Mercantile Communications Pvt. Ltd. For reprinting rights, please write to US.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Kathmandu Post: Unidentified Object Scare Continues From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 04:19:49 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:49:07 -0400 Subject: Kathmandu Post: Unidentified Object Scare Continues Source: The Kathmandu Post - Nepal http://www.nepalnews.com.np/contents/englishdaily/ktmpost/2002/aug/aug11/loc= al.htm Stig *** Kathmandu, Sunday August 11, 2002 Shrawan 26, 2059. <snip> Unidentified object scare continues Post Report ** NEPALGUNJ, Aug 10: The life in the Nepal-India border at Belaspur and Nepalgunj went panicky for the second consecutive day on Saturday when an unidentified object again attempted to kill a woman. The same mysterious object had killed a 40-year-old woman in the neighbouring Indian village a few days ago. Sahim Khan, 55, of Belaspur-16 was sleeping peacefully on the terrace of her house when the fireball-like object flew towards her ready to attack her, say locals. "When we rushed towards Khan's house after seeing the object, it disappeared instantly," they said. The locals then brought Khan from the terrace and kept her safely inside the house. The locals said they saw the same object the previous day over Nepalgunj Municipality and Guleria area. Even the object continues to attack villagers for the last couple of days and more and more people are attacked, authorities from both Nepal and India have failed to identify the object, which is said to be active at night and disappears instantly after the attack. The local eyewitnesses said it resembles a fire-flame and attacks those sleeping outside their houses on rooftops and terraces. Deputy Superintendent of Police, Gokarna Bahadur Pal of Banke admitted that he saw the red object but said he could not identify it. India's Lucknow-based newspapers even published reports that said three people have been killed and more than a dozen wounded across the border after the mysterious object was detected in the region a couple of days ago. <snip> Send your comments and letters to the editor at kanti@kpost.mos.com.np 2002 =A9 Mercantile Communications Pvt. Ltd. P.O. Box 876, Durbar Marg, Kathmandu, NEPAL. Tel : 977 1 220 773, 243566, Fax: 977 1 225 407. ** Reproduction in any form is prohibited without prior permission. No part of the articles which appear in the internet version on The Kathmandu Post may be reproduced without the permission of Mercantile Communications Pvt. Ltd. For reprinting rights, please write to US
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Busy Sky From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 23:52:25 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:50:21 -0400 Subject: Busy Sky The sky is busy tonight (with IFOs). I walked out on my deck around 9:30pm to get some fresh, evening air and what do I see through the trees to the north? A large, white object in the sky headed my way. It turned out to be an advertising blimp (dirigible) for Sanyo. It was large, pure white, well-illuminated from the inside, with "SANYO" painted in large, red, capital letters on the side, had horizontal stabilizers at the rear with red and green nav lights on the tips, a white light on the tail, a gondola on the bottom with a flashing strobe light, and quiet but audible motors. It was heading south, but crabbed about 30 degrees to the west against the wind. I hardly ever see these things at night (daytime sightings of blimps are fairly common), and when I do, it's from a great distance. This one was less than 1/2 a block away, and took about a minute to traverse my field of vision. It was a beautiful sight against the pale blue evening sky. Just as it was being obscured by the trees, 2 satellites, one behind the other, separated by 4 fingers at arm's length, glided across the sky from the south, north-northeast bound, and very slowly made their trek across the sky. Then another satellite in the same "satellite freeway" headed southbound, tumbling slowly and brightening and darkening. Just as it went behind the trees, a meteor (Perseid meteor?) flashed down the same general trough at very high speed. All this in about 5 minutes, or so... (My record for satellites seen in one evening is 14, but it took quite a while...) No UFOs spotted so far, but that's OK: I was very pleased with the show. I know this is a bit off-topic, but even without "saucers", the night sky can sometimes be not only beautiful, but wonderfully entertaining. Dave Morton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 HBCC UFO Witnessed Part III From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:06:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:53:11 -0400 Subject: HBCC UFO Witnessed Part III Howdy, What I am doing, is to write the reports and send them out as I go along. Below is the third report from two witnesses from Quick, British Columbia over the July 29, 2002 sighting. Houston, Quick, Telkwa & Smithers - British Columbia. Report For Quick, British Columbia Quick, B.C. Date: July 29, 2002 Time: approx: 10:50 p.m. Location Information: Quick is a very small farming community which sits between Houston and Smithers British Columbia. It is nestled in the Bulkley Valley with mountain ranges running all around. Today, August 10, 2002 I left my home to interview the next set of witnesses. The drive was going to take some 40 minutes, so I stopped at the service station and gassed up and left Houston at 2:00 p.m. heading west for Quick. I finally arrived and turned off highway #16 onto the Quick East Road and drove along until I came to the witnesses home. I was greeted by both the wife and husband, and met their son a bit later. We walked along a beautiful stone path which led to a large patio where we sat to discuss what it was they saw. The two witnesses who had the sighting were Mrs. (wife) and her son (deleted) The Mom is a retired school teacher and her son works as a Civil Engineer. Two very creditable witness, also very pleasant people. What I am going to do here is to name Mrs. or the wife witness number #1 and her son witness number #2. It will help me so I do not goof myself up. Witness #1 went inside her home and came out with a journal she has been keeping for years. She writes down events which are important to her and this one event that took place on July 29, 2002 was one she will never forget. Investigators Note: I also have photos of the area where the object was seen shooting across the sky in which I will post to my website once I get the film developed. Their farm sits at an elevation of 530 meters and has a wide open view of the Telkwa Mountain Range and Chicken Mountain which sits slightly lower and in front of the range. The weather conditions were perfect as the sky was clear. The sun had already set in the west and Mom (witness) was going to meet her son who was over near their greenhouse. She walked up the driveway and turned onto a small dirt path holding her flash light watching the ground to see where she was walking. This lead to a wide opening in the field where the greenhouse was situated. Just as she reached this opening, she heard her son give out a loud yell. She immediately looked up and went to shine her light towards her son when she saw, a HUGE, bright, glowing white/yellowish, almost oval in shape object flying across the sky at a very low level. She said to me, "I couldn't move, I was in shock". I asked her about the shape of this object, as everyone else who reported to me said it was round. She said in her opinion the object was not quite round, but just off, meaning it was "slightly" oval (even walnut in shape). Or another thing she said, it would be like if you took a round circle and started to stretch it out. The color has remained the same from all witnesses who reported the object. I asked witness #1 for an approximate size for this bright light. Mom (witness) struggled with this as she did not want to give any wrong information. Her final conclusion as to the size would be, at arms length it was the size of her finger nail, but not across, it would have been length ways. I asked where exactly it was seen. I wanted to know if it was below the horizon of the Telkwa Range. I was trying to get an idea for distance from the witnesses. Again she was not sure. You have to remember by the time the sighting took place it was already dark, and it is hard to see landmarks which would help determine exactly where the object would have been in relation to them and the distant mountains. I looked around, and since I knew the path the object took, I thought I would try this. In the direction they lost sight of this object, there are three sets of trees. One group of large trees sat behind their greenhouse which sat on a ledge. Behind this group of trees there is a drop off, across from here it rises up again in elevation with another grouping of trees which rose above the set behind the greenhouse. Another grouping of timber sat higher up again. So I asked when she lost sighting of "it", what grouping of trees did the object fall behind? She said the last set for sure. Now I asked, approximately how high above the last grouping of trees was the object. Mom (witness) said it was "just" above the timber, but as they were losing sight of it, the object would have been just a "hair' below the tops of the trees. Now this gave me something to work with. The last stand of timber sits rather high up at a good distance from where they were standing, approximately 1/2 mile away (maye more), "but", this stand of timber is below the horizon of Chicken Mountain. So this object shot down the valley at approximately 1 1/2 miles away from them. It was also heading in a southwesterly direction at a quick pace, but slow enough as where the object took 5 to 6 seconds to cross their line of sight. Investigator Note: She did not see it right away, her son noticed it first and gave out a yell. She looked up and spotted it right away because of the intense brightness and size. My point is, 5 to 6 seconds is a fair bit of time when they had a short space to see the object due to trees blocking their view. Being so close to it, I asked what kind of sound did it make, they both said, none at all. "There was no noise coming from it". It also was on a slight angle they told me, but very slight. (This makes me wonder if it did hit the ground, as it was certainly very low at this point, if so where? Also this gives a lot of weight to folks in the area seeing the military vehicles and a lot of air traffic overhead). Witness #1 said she waited around for a little while with her son watching the sky just in case something else went by, but nothing did so she went into the house and started calling around to authorities. She called the Smithers Airport who were no help to her, they knew nothing. She called the Vancouver International Airport, they knew nothing. She even call back east to Ottawa and talked with someone in an environment position, but I am sure they wouldn't know anything anyway. So in the morning witness #1 called the Smithers Interior newspaper to inform them of what she saw. Witness #2 - Son. This is a brief description in which he gave to me. I am just going to summarize his statement as a lot of the same information is above in this report. It was very large, bright and lasted far longer than any meteor shower. Faster than a man-made object, but slower than a meteorite. There was "no" sound! It was below the horizon and moved away from until we lost sight of it behind the trees. A slight trajectory towards earth. I spent a little over two hours with this friendly family and enjoyed this visit very much. What I found really nice about talking with them. We talked about the large fossil find, as they had a bunch of wonderful samples spread across a table outside. Of course I am interested in this as well. I can say this, our area holds a lot of treasures, and this one is a major find as the fossils cover a very large area, you can bend down and walk slowly along and fill a bucket. Everything is in perfect form. It was like I was standing at the beach and grabbing perfect calms. There are so many different types of marine life it isn't funny, so I wonder what other specimens the land holds. There is a good write up on this in one of the rock hound magazines. One more report to come, it is a shorter version as it was a telephone interview. Then a final wrap up on the whole case as it sits for now. I know there is more to do on this, so I will be still making calls, and hoping others come forward if they did indeed see this object. Take good care Brian HBCC UFO Research - yogibear@bulkley.net I talked with a colleague today at UFO*BC - http://www.ufobc.ca/ and was told they received a sighting report through their Hotline from Prince Rupert, British Columbia and there also was a lot of action that way. Prince Rupert, B.C. is about a five hour drive west of me. So things still popping up in the north.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:42:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:56:37 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe - Velez >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 01:46:13 EDT >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe >UFOs Hubble and the age of the Universe. <snip> >The point being that so called main stream science is more then >happy to go with a photo interpretation if its something they >embrace/like. However if you mention the word "UFO" you would >instantly hear blather about how we need actual physical >samples, actual verified contact, actual ET craft for >scientists to walk in and examine etc etc. >I would expect the skeptibunkers will probably rationalize all >of this away, dribbling about "Carl Sagen said..." and making up >excuses and storys about why these Hubble photos should be taken >seriously but photographic evidence of UFOs should not. Hello Robert, You close a terrific post with: >As I mentioned in my earlier post I am still waiting for the >cronies at CSICOP to be all over these new Hubble discoverys. Don't hold your breath. CSICOP, in spite of the fact that the "S" and the "I" stand for, Scientific Investigation does not 'investigate' anything! It is, from all outward appearances, a 'church' where those who believe that they have _all_ the answers to God, the Universe and Everything, gather to worship. They represent a manifestation of the lowest wavelength in the broad spectrum of skepticism, - debunkers. As such, my question to you would be, "Why would you want to hear from them at all?" As birds of a feather flock together, these intellectual and spiritual 'misfires' have found each other and they all speak with the same predictable, bifurcated tongue. Soul-less spiritual temperature inversions incarnate. ;) You have eloquently stated the facts of the matter. They employ a set of convenient double standards at all times. Especially when it comes to the subject of UFOs. We _already_know_ what to expect from them in terms of 'point of view.' Lord only knows they've been beating us about the face and head with it for decades now. CSICOP spokesmen and their pontifications are as predictable as the cycles of the planets in their orbits around the sun, and as transparent as glass. Why ask? You already _know_ what they're going to say. BTW, you'd get a real kick out of studying the Indian teachings regarding cosmogenesis. The "awakening" and first "Breath of Brahma" teachings regarding the cyclical nature of the Universe, (Manvantara's) if stripped of their allegorical language, reads pretty much like a modern day treatise on theoretical physics. The Big Bang, expansion and contraction of the universe in an eternal and endless cycle, (as represented by the out-breath and in-breath of Brahma) - it's all there. Interesting when viewed in the light of current cosmological speculations. :) Warm regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 14 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:32:08 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:20:07 -0400 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 00:44:55 EDT >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >>>Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants >>>I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >>>(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >>>kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >>>ago. >>>The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >>>since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >>>20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >>>Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >>>advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >>>(public) attention. >You responded: >Its a question many of us have been asking/wondering about as >well since Lier/Sims showed up on the scene. Alot of surgery, >alot of talk, a few photos and nadda, zip nothing...unless of >course you go to Laughlin or some of the other UFO lecture >circuit favorites. >Ahhh the UFO lecture circuit... paid air fares, hotel rooms, and >if you're a 'big name', a speakers fee. John, I have done this myself as a venue to report my findings and it is right in line with what all scientists do. Only I am not a big name and do not make any money - just expenses covered. >No business like show business. >It would all be worth the trouble if the presentations being >made at these many conferences dealt with new information that >had been derived from thorough investigation and rigorous >scientific research/analysis. Research conducted by independent >experts and professionals with no _vested_ interest in the >outcome. Peer pressure can also have a negative effect. Many scientists are in fear of speaking out about their findings which do not conform to the current zeitgeist. One of these who proceeded to speak out about his research, though ousted from the scientific community, now has his theory gracing the cover of Discover magazine. >Then, if nothing else, we'd all be learning more and more about >the true nature of the phenomena. Instead of remaining mired in >this perpetually stagnant limbo regarding an enigma that has >proven to be life-disrupting for many thousands of people. >It's high time we all started to demand strong credentials, >experience and the very best from anyone in ufology who claims >the title 'researcher' or 'investigator.' Right out of the box >we'd lose about 80% of what is currently 'dead weight' to >ufology. I only have had a field investigator's cert from MUFON for some years yet some of your esteemed strong credentialed investigators have come up with explanations I would not give 2 cents for - so this is the other side of the coin. If you want to know the truth, you learn how to investigate from the best, but then think for yourself and do it yourself right out there in the dirty ditches, not by trusting someone's word for it. If I had believed my school science teacher I would have believed all these planets that are being found are bogus. If I had believed my priest I would have believed all other religions are bogus. We learn new things by questioning the authorities and experts. Yes, we need experts, trained investigators - I agree, but just trying to show that this sword has two edges. Just another point of view, - Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Physical Evidence - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:28:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Morris >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 >>Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] <snip> >>It _should_ take nothing less than physical evidence to prove >>that UFOs are ET spacecraft, which is what practically everyone >>here is either claiming or trying hard not to. >The public interest in Ufology derives from the idea that UFOs >are space vehicles sent to earth from some place in the universe. >I learned, from the late Dr. Allen Hynek, to be more cautious in >our support of the ET hypothesis. He implied that some vastly >important scientific phenomenon or some big secret, which he >hoped to find out, may lie behind the UFO mystery. He never find >it or if he knew it he never said it. >I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >alternative hypothesis others than the ET spacecraft, and which >one you think, the alternatives, are? Unfortunately the UFO culture here in the UK only appears to endorse the ET hypothesis. BUFOSC have been researching other hypotethese since 1994 and received much criticism from those making kudos from the ET Hype. However last night at our monthly lecture meeting we revealed for the first time ever the stages of getting vital information (this involved the Rendlesham case of 1980) and the reception we received from the audience was rapturous. We will continue to research the other alternatives to alien spacecraft and we are presently exposing the Crop Circle myth in the UK (and other countries) Eric Morris British UFO Studies Centre (BUFOSC) UK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:44:57 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:44:59 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Hall >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:30:16 +0000 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:22:30 -0400 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:03:44 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >>To be fair, repeatability is not required by the "Scientific >>Method". As you note, many of today's scientific puzzles cannot >>be called up on demand. All we can do is gather whatever >>evidence we can to try and explain it. Let's not toss the >>scientific method out the window quite yet. >Yet many scientists demand 100% repeatability by everyone who >tries the experiment. That is obviously part of a general >understanding, rightly or wrongly. >And I'm not suggesting "tossing out" the Scientific Method, just >stating that it needs updating. >Eleanor White Eleanor, The Scientific Method doesn't need updating; scientists do. The Method is flexible and includes techniques for dealing with most anything. I majored in scientific philosophy, with emphasis on logic and scientific method. More importantly, scientists need the research funds that would help legitimize work in this field, and unscientific 'ufologists' need to stop their wild speculations and idiotic behavior that help to discredit the subject. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:01:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:51:57 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:49:29 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:01:52 -0400 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >One of the distinguishing characteristics of "pseudo-science" >is that the passage of time NEVER provides increased knowledge >or understanding of the basic phenomenon. >--Philip J. Klass, Skeptics UFO Newsletter #71, September 2002 This also applies to explanation of sightings. See Prosaic Explanations, the Failure of UFO Skepticism at: http://brumac.8k.com click on PAPERS and scroll down. The 'pseudo-science' practiced by sighting explainers is the major reason why ufology didn't die a quiet death 50, 40, 30 years ago. Specifically, explanations proposed for some or many sightings were unconconvincing, if not obviously wrong. (Note: when investigating reports of unknown/unidentified phenomena it may not be possible to determine whether or not a particular explanation is actually right or wrong, but with the well reported sightings it is possible to at least determine whether or not an explanation is unconvincing. Furthermore, there is a sub set of sightings for which the explanations are not just unconvincing, but also are wrong.) When a person proposes an explanation and doesn't prove that the explanation is valid he/she is doing another form of "pseudo-science"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:01:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:57:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Maccabee >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:18:29 -0700 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:12:11 -0400 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax >>>>The Lawton Triangles "sightings" are now admitted hoaxes. See: >>>>http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/Lawtontriangle.html. >>>Do you think this event underscores the end of the "photo- >>>analysis" era of Ufology? With digital cameras, cut-and-paste, >>>and the 'lasso tool', how are we to ever trust a photo, even a >>>thoroughly analysed one, again? >>The main lesson here is not the photo hoaxing, but the fact that >>some one is willing to undergo investigation, albeit not the >>best type (which is on-the-spot, face to face, etc.). As long as >>there are "disinformationists" around, we have to be very >>careful. >I'm again reminded of Maccabee's Law, that the hoax hypothesis >is non-disprovable. >You could have a hundred videotapes of the same object, all >taken by nuns, and someone, somewhere, will say, "See how good >these hoaxers have gotten?" >To which I add Speiser's Corollary, that the hoax hypothesis is >non-provable. >For example in the Lawton Triangles case, it is theoretically >possible to suggest that the photos are genuine, but some >MIBs/Disinfo agents got a hold of a newsgroup that they knew >would eventually make it to your eyes, and fabricated a message >designed to make you _think_ it was a hoax, when it was actually >genuine. I suppose one could imagine that there were witnesses to a Lawton triangle and that the government created a photo hoax of same in order to make any testimony by said witnesses look silly. <LOL> However, no witnesses (other than the photo hoaxer) have turned up, so we no reason to believe that the the hoaxer was a liar when he said it was a hoax. <ROFL>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Physical Evidence - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:01:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:05:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Maccabee >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 >Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >It _should_ take nothing less than physical evidence to prove >that UFOs are ET spacecraft, which is what practically everyone >here is either claiming or trying hard not to. >I hope someday we find that evidence, but I think we're putting >the cart before the horse. >What we should be attempting to prove (and I think we've just >about done it) is what UFOs are _not_. >They are not _all_ misperceptions and hoaxes - something very >strange is definitely happening in the skies, something that >should not be there in the first place. >To my mind, that should be _all_ we should have to say at this >point, and good scientists, in a multitude of disciplines, >should scratch their heads and say, "Well, I don't believe in >Little Grey Men, but I'll be darned if I can come close to >explaining these things." At which point they should grab their >lab coats and microscopes and start getting their hands dirty >trying to come up with the answer. Isn't that what we put them >through college for? I have long argued that "explanation" is where there is science in ufology. The science is to prove there is a genuine mystery by demonstrating that there is one (or more) sighting cases that connot be reasonably explained in a conventional manner as known a known phenomenon. If there is at least one unexplained sighting... and eveyone has to agree that it is unexplained... then there is a reason to speculate or generate new theories of the cause for the event. Of course, skeptics would argue that there is no unexplained sighting and when challenged, they offer explanations, often without testing the explanations ("reality check"). See, for example, the hours of discussion of Kenneth Arnold in the archives of this List. The most recent (within the last 10 years) explanations for Arnold are as divergent as possible: meteors and pelicans. Neither of these is very convincing upon analysis. (I understand that very recently an author has suggested clouds... a sort of recycle of Menzel's explanations.) Here is where the skeptibunkers fail: they publicize explanations which fall flat upon analysis and thereby convince themselves and others that everything is explainable. It does not require a theory of alien visitation in order to analyze the Trindade photos or the New Zealand film, Trent photos, etc, landing traces and so on and to conclude that at least _some_ of these cases are unexplainable. One of my favorites is the Val Johnson police car damage case of 22 years ago (Aug 1980). PJ Klass describes this in his 1983 book, UFOs The Public Deceived... which is aptly named because he deceived the public. In that book he accurately describes the Val Johnson case and the analysis of the physical effects and concludes that either aliens flew past the car and hammered the front headlight and the windshield and the light bar on top of the car and reached out and bent the antennas... or else... or else (get this!) Officer Johnson caused the damage himself as a practical joke. What "evidence" did Klass present that Johnson might be likely to damage a police car and make up a saucer story as par of a practical joke? Klass had interviewed another officer from the same police department and "discovered" that Officer Johnson was a (gulp) practical joker! What sort of jokes? "Well, he might hide your coffee cup," Klass was told. WOW! WOW! WOW! (Sorry about the capitals, EBK, but this deserves super emphasis!). This obviously nails Johnson! What clear solid evidence! Anyone can easily see that a man so dastardly as to hide a coffee cup could _easily_ go so far as to cause hundreds or thousands of dollars of damage to a police car as a practical joke!!! ****************************** Maccabee's First Rule for Debunkers: any explanation is better than none. ****************************** And here we have a prime example of application of application of that rule. I admit that Klass does offer the alien alternative... but in such a way as to make it appear silly. Hence one may assume, expecially in the context of the book in which Klass says sightings may be roughly divided into 98% misidentification and 2% hoax, that it is expected that the reader will conclude that the Johnson case was a hoax.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Scientific Method [was: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:38:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:09:37 -0400 Subject: Scientific Method [was: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:30:16 +0000 >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up <snip> >Yet many scientists demand 100% repeatability by everyone who >tries the experiment. That is obviously part of a general >understanding, rightly or wrongly. >And I'm not suggesting "tossing out" the Scientific Method, just >stating that it needs updating. Since this is a process, it can always be modified (within reason) to study the subject at hand. How that is accepted by scientists, who are also dealing with their own beliefs and faiths, remains an issue. If you're looking for some sort of magic change in how we examine this type of phenomena to suddenly show "scientists" that they've been wrong, you're going to search for a long time (IMO). As Richard Hall pointed out, he covers this issue in The UFO Evidence II. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: JUFOS - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:42:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:12:35 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Sandow >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:40:05 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: JUFOS >>From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 11:20:34 -0400 >>Subject: Re: JUFOS ><snip> >>So there it is - science is turning into UFO UpDates! With one >>big exception, though. You don't normally find people without >>scientific training debating the papers that bypass scientific >>journals, and appear on the web. Scientists who take this route >>can trust that the people commenting on their work are fully >>qualified colleagues. >How? Because they don't publish their papers on public e-mail Lists. They do it on sites that only other scientists know about. I don't mean to say these are secret sites. But they're not the kind of place frequented by the general public. Most of us, in any case, couldn't understand the papers, because they're too technical. Besides, the scientists would ignore the kind of thing that goes on here - people popping out of the blue to ask questions, challenge well-known cases, etc., etc. Nothing wrong with that happening here. This _is_ a public List. But the scientists want professional comments, and don't need to bother with others. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:14:52 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe - Tonnies >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:42:46 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFOs Hubble & The Age Of The Universe <snip> >BTW, you'd get a real kick out of studying the Indian teachings >regarding cosmogenesis. The "awakening" and first "Breath of >Brahma" teachings regarding the cyclical nature of the Universe, >(Manvantara's) if stripped of their allegorical language, reads >pretty much like a modern day treatise on theoretical physics. >The Big Bang, expansion and contraction of the universe in an >eternal and endless cycle, (as represented by the out-breath and >in-breath of Brahma) - it's all there. Interesting when viewed >in the light of current cosmological speculations. :) Especially interesting now that it looks like the universe will probably never contract at all! Excellent post, by the way. ===== Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Transcelestial Ontology and Postmillennial Studies http://mactonnies.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:33:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:18:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs <snip> >>Bottom line is it is up to us. We also shouldn't spend a great >>deal of time trying to satisfy the skeptibunkers because they >>never will be satisfied. >Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >than it is to try to convince them of anything. <snip> Does anyone think that, as with the U.S. Marine Corps' perpetual search for "a few good men", a few good, mature, honest and articulate UFO issue followers could be found who might _specialize_ in "showing up the silliness" of the perennial skeptibunkers? Such folks might serve the UFO research community as a sort of "Minuteman Corps" and who would provide on-the-spot reasoned rebuttals every time one of the skeptibunkers appears with unfounded disinformation? These folks would spend time between rebuttals researching the backgrounds and activities of the skeptibunkers, and would use their logic and verbal skills to create a set of ready- to-use, peer-reviewed rebuttals so that such "Minutemen" would rarely be lacking for cogent words. By "peer reviewed" I mean before being used, proposed rebuttals would be discussed among those taking on this calling, and also be discussed with actual UFO researchers. A business analogy to this "deparmental" arrangement is that while engineers and scientists work directly on products, other departments, such as advertising and legal, handle non-technical matters. Under this scheme, UFO researchers would be to some extent relieved of having to deal with the skeptibunkers. Finally, having people other than the researchers doing rebuttal work in public would demonstrate that UFO matters are important and are being defended by people who have no apparent "vested interest", as they are not researchers nor are they selling books. The 80% of the North American population who believe that governments are witholding UFO information should provide a broad recruiting base. This calling would be a bit like Stephen Bassett's. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Secrecy News -- 08/14/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:32:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:21:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 08/14/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 76 August 14, 2002 ** MICROBIOLOGISTS ADOPT POLICY ON SENSITIVE INFO ** DOD DECLASSIFIES MORE DATA ON SHAD TESTS ** DETAINEE DISCLOSURE DEBATE BACK IN COURT MICROBIOLOGISTS ADOPT POLICY ON SENSITIVE INFO In response to growing concerns about the publication of scientific research pertaining to biological weapons, the American Society of Microbiologists (ASM) has adopted a measured policy for screening submissions to its journals for unduly sensitive content. "The ASM recognizes that there are valid concerns regarding the publication of information in scientific journals that could be put to inappropriate use," according to a new policy statement from the nation's professional society of microbiologists. "ASM members are obligated to discourage any use of microbiology contrary to the welfare of humankind, including the use of microbes as biological weapons." With that in mind, the Society has enunciated a new set of procedures for flagging manuscripts submitted to ASM Journals that may involve "misuses of microbiology or of information derived from microbiology." Such manuscripts would be subject to special scrutiny and, if found inappropriate by the ASM Publications Board, rejected. See: http://journals.asm.org/misc/Pathogens_and_Toxins.shtml The new ASM policy could help to relieve some of the pressure emanating from the Bush Administration to impose controls on scientific publications relating to weapons of mass destruction. Officials at the White House Office of Homeland Security had been grappling for months with the issue, without resolution, and had privately pleaded with scientific society leaders to take the initiative. The ASM policy provides a significant response. A related August 13 article in the New York Times reported that new regulations on certain biological agents and possible future restrictions on publication "threaten to undermine the fundamental openness of science and campus life." But this appears to be a substantial exaggeration. As noted by the Times, new regulations require laboratories that possess any one of a few dozen highly toxic biological agents to notify the government of that fact, and to deny unauthorized persons access to such agents. But while unpleasant and burdensome, it is hard to see how "This has the potential for changing the definition of science, the way people do science, and even what we mean when we say science," as ASM President Ron Atlas told the Times. A creeping transformation of scientific research has indeed been taking place in recent years, but it is due to the growing commercialization and corporatization of science. Nothing comparable can be attributed to government security policies. See "Sept. 11 Strikes at Labs' Door" by Diana Jean Schemo in the August 13 New York Times here: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/13/science/13RESE.html DOD DECLASSIFIES MORE DATA ON SHAD TESTS The Defense Department continues to declassify information about the Shipboard Hazard and Defense (SHAD) program, which involved tests of active biological and chemical agents against U.S. warships in the 1960s. At least 45 such tests were performed, with medical consequences for an undetermined number of the 2,700 servicemembers who were involved. A copy of an August 13 Defense Department press release on SHAD is here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/08/dod-shad.html Project SHAD fact sheets and declassification status reports are posted here: http://deploymentlink.osd.mil/current_issues/shad/shad_tests.shtml DETAINEE DISCLOSURE DEBATE BACK IN COURT Within a week of the landmark court decision requiring the government to promptly disclose the identities of most of the individuals who were secretly detained in connection with the September 11 investigation, the Justice Department went back to court to move for a stay of the decision, so as to permit filing of an appeal. The August 8 motion for a stay, as well as the August 13 response in opposition from the civil liberties groups that won the initial decision, can be found with much of the rest of the case docket on the web site of the Center for National Security Studies: http://www.cnss.gwu.edu/~cnss/cnssvdoj.htm Consistent with Judge Gladys Kessler's August 2 ruling, the American Bar Association adopted a recommendation calling for disclosure of detainee names and other information at its annual conference on August 13. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Filer's Files #33 - 2002 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:45:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:27:41 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #33 - 2002 FILER'S FILES #33 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern August 14, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- http//:www.filersfiles-ufo.com. Dear Readers, I have been receiving viruses and other attacks. My website domain name was hijacked by YMT, HK, China 86. I will not send out Filer's Files or emails with attachments, so if you receive any attachments from me do not open. I request individuals and the many websites around the world that carry these files to update their links to my new website at: http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com Warning, it appears computers may be manipulated by Communist China addresses. UFO SIGHTINGS INCREASE: Canadian Top Secret Memo claims UFOs are the most highly classified subject in US, NASA reports life existed on Mars in past, Asteroid flies by Earth on August 17. Strange Connecticut Square UFO, New York domed UFO, Pennsylvania sphere, Washington D.C. report, North Carolina flashes, Ohio flying pen, Arkansas daylight discs, New Mexico cylinder, California lights, Canadian UFOs, Mexican UFO flotilla, Argentina UFO takes cell phone, English UFO landing. German police chase UFO, Greek landing, Bulgaria three days of sightings, Nepal fireball, and Russian dog fight. Movie "Signs" about crop circles a box office hit. New Pictures Reveal 100,000 Galaxies in just a small area of the sky. CANADA TOP SECRET UFO MEMO NOW PUBLIC OTTAWA -- Through the diligent research efforts of York University researcher Nick Balaskas, a draft of the original "Project Magnet" Top Secret Memo has been recovered from the Archives at the University of Ottawa. Wilbert Smith, Senior Radio Engineer in the Canadian Department of Transport, wrote the original Top Secret memo to his superiors in November 1952. Wilbert Smith headed the Canadian government's official program to investigate flying saucers from December 1950 to August 1954. In the "Project Magnet" Top Secret memo Smith outlined five key items about flying saucers that he had discovered while in discussions with top US officials working on the flying saucer problem. These were:1) The matter is the most highly classified subject in the United States Government, rating higher than even the H-bomb. 2) Flying saucers exist. 3) Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is being made by a small group headed by Vannevar Bush. 4) The entire matter is considered by the United States authorities to be of tremendous significance. 5) The United States authorities are investigating along quite a number of lines, which might possibly be related to the saucers such as mental phenomena. Two newly discovered pages of "Project Magnet" read as follows: This project is for the purpose of studying magnetic phenomena, particularly those phenomena resulting from unusual boundary conditions in the basic electromagnetic field. There is reason to believe their discovery will open up a new and useful technology. The initial organization shall be as small as practical and composed of personnel who are used to working together. The initial program shall include: 1. Theoretical study of electromagnetic radiation assuming boundary conditions different from those upon which the conventional theory was developed. 2. Laboratory study of mechanical forces associated with electron drift and electric currents in metallic masses. 3. Theoretical and laboratory study of magnetic domain resonance conditions in magnetic materials. 4. Investigation of the propagation of magnetic wave motion in magnetic materials. 5. Investigate the possibility of producing, an effect, a "sink" in a magnetic field. 6. Investigate the possibility of producing, in effect, single isolated magnetic poles. 7. Investigate the effects of a magnetic field on a rotating curviplaner metallic object. Full Document at: http://www.presidentialufo.com/top_secret_draft.htm SEARCH FOR ANCIENT MARTIAN LIFE CONTINUES In the latest NASA study of a 4.5 billion-year-old Martian meteorite, researchers have presented new evidence confirming that 25 percent of the magnetic material in the meteorite was produced by ancient bacteria on Mars. These latest results were published in the journal Applied and Environmental Microbiology. The researchers used six physical properties they refer to as the Magnetite Assay for Biogenicity (MAB) to compare all the magnetic material found in the ancient meteorite -- using the MAB as a biosignature. Magnetotactic bacteria, which occur in aquatic habitats on Earth, arrange magnetite crystals in chains within their cells to make compasses, which help the bacteria locate sources of food and energy. The fact that Mars Global Surveyor data suggest that early Mars had a magnetic field is consistent with a reason why Mars would have magnetotactic bacteria. "Our best working hypothesis is that early Mars supported the evolution of bacteria that share several traits with magnetotactic bacteria on Earth, most notably the MV-1 group," said Simon Clemett, a coauthor of the paper at Johnson Space Center. Mars has long been understood to provide the sources of light and chemical energy sufficient to support life, but in 2001 the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft observed magnetized stripes in the crust of Mars, which showed that a strong magnetic field existed in the planet's early history, about the same time as the carbonate containing the unique magnetites in ALH84001 was formed. In June, researchers using the Mars Odyssey spacecraft announced that they had found water ice under the surface of Mars. These attributes, coupled with a carbon dioxide-rich atmosphere, would have provided the necessary environment for the evolution of microbes similar to the fossils found in ALH84001. "We believe this latest study proves that the magnetites in ALH84001 can be best explained as the products of multiple biogenic and inorganic processes that operated on early Mars," Thanks to NASA Editor's Note: These recent findings by NASA support my analysis of ancient monuments and fort like structures on Mars, that were likely built by an advanced civilization in the ancient past. CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH AN ASTEROID In North America, the best view of asteroid 2002 NY40 occurs after sunset on August 17, when it passes within 330,000 miles of Earth, slightly farther away than the moon. It should be visible with binoculars cruising past Vega, the brightest star in the summer skies. Most asteroids pose no threat to Earth. But they do contain valuable metals, minerals, and even water that we might tap in the future. The feasibility of knocking a potential rogue asteroid off course is undergoing studies with money from the European Space Agency (Esa). Deimos-Space a Spanish company is designing the mission and hopes its plans will convince Esa to give the go- ahead for a full scale test on a real asteroid. The company has come up with a plan, which it calls the Don Quixote mission, to launch a pair of probe spacecraft called Hidalgo and Sancho at a far off asteroid. One would hit the asteroid at extremely high speed, deflecting it slightly from its orbit. The other would observe the asteroid and make highly accurate measurements of what happened after the impact. The idea is that the mission would tell scientists how hard they would have to hit a real rogue asteroid heading for Earth in order to deflect it safely. Thanks to BBC News Online CONNECTICUT STRANGE SQUARE OBJECT VERNON -- Tom Manna reports that at 11:20 PM on August 3, 2002, I saw a large object fly over heading northeast. It was about the size of a quarter held at arm's length. I live in a very quiet area, and this thing was totally silent. The blinking lights were white and red, with a steady blue. They were shaped in sort of a square pattern. Two whites blinking and two reds lower down with the blue steady lights toward the middle. Thanks to Tom Manna, FishSpanker@webtv.net NEW YORK A DOME-SHAPED OBJECT UTICA -- Peter Davenport reports he interviewed an exceptionally credible witness, a 42 year old nursing student with a previous B.S. in Home Economics who is also a cub scout leader who was driving on July 29, 2002, with her Army veteran husband and their 8 year old son at about 10:15 PM. Lighting strikes lit up the humid sky, when they witnessed two flashing lights on an object which was hovering above the road ahead. There was a green flashing light on the left, and the red flashing light on the right about 20 feet apart. The object simply hovered, and was absolutely silent. We had our windows down but we could not hear the roar of a plane or the whirring, buzzing sound of a helicopter. We immediately reported this sighting to the Marcy Substation of the New York State police. The dispatcher called our house later and stated the local police told her there were no other sightings reported and this was unlikely to have been a military maneuver since it was operating over a very densely populated area. The son saw a domed shape that was illuminated by lights behind it. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC PENNSYLVANIA CLOSE RANGE ENCOUNTER WITH SMALL SPHERE NORTH HUNTINGDON TOWNSHIP -- Stan Gordon reports, three witnesses, a man, his wife, and a friend were standing in a parking lot on July 24,2002, involved in a long conversation. About 10 PM, the friend said, "Look behind you." They observed a small absolutely round and shiny bubble like object." The sphere was estimated to be the size of a tennis ball. While it gave the appearance of a bubble, "it was solid, in a way not like a bubble, there was thickness in the wall of the object." As they watched, the object floated past at less than ten feet. They could have reached out and grabbed it as the object continued slowly down the road "moving straight at six feet off the ground." There was no windl, yet this bubble zoomed on past us." It zigzagged left then right, and was halfway down the complex when they lost sight of it. The object did reflect light and there was no sound detected during the twenty-second observation. The witness who has a military background, stated, it gave him the impression that it was "a probe of some kind." Note: While reports of small spherical objects are not common, since the 1960's, Stan has recorded several that were very close to the observers, and range from several inches to a foot in diameter. Thanks to Stan Gordon PA UFO/Fortean Hotline: 724-838- 7768 paufo@westol.com WASHINGTON DC INQUIRIES WITH NORAD CONCERNING UFOs Researcher Kenny Young contacted Major Barry Venable, a Public Affairs officer with NORAD concerning the launch of two F-16s of the 113th ANG from Andrews AFB on July 26th against an unidentified radar track. She says, "To date, we have acknowledged that we scrambled fighters to investigate an unknown aircraft detected by radar. The unknown aircraft faded from our radar screens before the fighters arrived. The fighters investigated the area where the unknown radar track was located, detected no other suspicious activity or aircraft, and returned to base. At no point in their mission did the fighters "chase" anything. We did acknowledge that we did not know what aircraft caused the radar signature. "Any unknown air activity is potentially threatening-that's why we respond. Public discussion of these possibilities or our determination of actual cause does not serve the public interest. "We continue to assess over 400 other potentially threatening events since Sep 11-and will factor it into our overall threat evaluation. Despite the unfortunate publicity arising from the sensational yet unproven eyewitness account of "blue objects in the sky," NORAD is treating this event in the serious context of providing an effective air defense for North America." Thanks to Kenny Young NORTH CAROLINA RED LIGHTS FLASH OVER OCEAN OUTER BANKS -- While on the beach at 9:50 PM, my brother-in-law saw a red light about a mile south of us on the coast line on July 23, 2002. About an hour later he saw the light again just southeast of us but closer. Fifteen minutes later we both saw a similar light northeast of us. After fifteen minutes, six of us saw the light for the final time at 21:50 PM, to the southeast with single red "flash." Then it split into two "flashes" then three "flashes." Each "flash," being it's own separate light and occurring for five to ten seconds over the Atlantic Ocean. We all looked for these lights the next two nights and didn't see anything however it was cloudy. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC OHIO FLYING FOUNTAIN PEN, POSSIBLE ABDUCTION YOUNGSTOWN --M. J. Ruben writes, "In Filer's Files #32 you reported a dramatic night sighting on Highway 84 on July 31, 2002. A young man witnessed a flash of light, followed by a sighting of an object that looked like a "fountain pen." The object streaked across the sky, stopped, and the truck ahead of the witness suddenly was no longer there! It sounds like a possible "abduction," a.k.a. interaction case. This UFO - Truck incident reminded me of a series of similar events that happened in Detroit in the late 1980s. I had the opportunity to discuss it with one of the witnesses. During rush hour traffic on I-275 (a major highway in the Detroit area), motorists would suddenly find themselves driving head-on into speeding traffic on the other side of the divided highway! People were so startled to see this, that it started making the evening news each time it happened. The "rest of the story" was told to me by a witness involved, who said a large semi-truck in front of him would not let him pass, causing him to think afterwards that perhaps this was a UFO! Like other motorists, he suddenly found himself driving on the other side of the divided highway head-on into oncoming, speeding traffic. To me, it sounded like highway abductions, with people and their cars put back down on the wrong side of the highway. The news never mentioned the suspected UFO involvement. Thanks to Marilyn Ruben, Alien Abduction Research http://www.abduct.com/ ARKANSAS DAYLIGHT DISKS SEEN NORTH LITTLE ROCK -- The observers report seeing a saucer shaped object on July 27, 2002, that was silver chrome like with bright sunlight bouncing off of it. My adult daughter and I were heading west at 4:00 PM, when we both saw a hovering the disk above the tree line about a mile away. As we drove closer, we could see it more clearly and observed for a couple of minutes that it never moved, and just reflected the sun like a mirror would. Neither one of us has ever seen anything like that. POCAHONTAS -- The witness was awakened by a 2:30 AM phone call from his neighbor, asking him to look at this thing in the sky on July 28, 2002. He got his binoculars and observed, "The object moved west and would flicker green, blue and orange to the naked eye, but with my binoculars we could see that the top was blue, the center was orange and the bottom was green." With binoculars, we could see it was saucer shaped as it slowly moved westward. It was visible for about an hour before it left our sight heading west. It was my first UFO experience. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC TEXAS ROUND UFO WITH MULTIPLE LIGHTS ADDISON -- My brother-in-law called on July 29, 2002, to say there was a UFO sighting at around 9:30 PM, that was seen by a lot of people. It was round with a couple of different colored lights. It came down and hovered for a while before going straight up out of sight. One of the guys interviewed on the radio said he has never believed in UFO's and now he has seen one! Thanks to Peter Davenport NEW MEXICO FLYING TRIANGLE SOCORRO -- The observers stated, "It was a flying triangle to the best that we could determine on July 26, 2002, the lights fused together as one but were distinctly separate, like the sun and nearly overpowering to watch for very long. At 5:45 AM, just before sunrise the object just 'blinked out' and just slipped into another dimension without a trace. It flew vertical. "I have always thought they flew horizontal, but what we have seen both times indicate that these fly on a vertical plane as opposed to a horizontal axis. Similar objects were seen two days before. Thanks to Peter Davenport CALIFORNIA FLASHING LIGHTS Nora writes, "On August 7, 2002, I was outside and saw a bright red planet at 10:55 PM, so I went inside to get my glasses and binoculars so I could see it as clearly as possible. I came back out to look at that red planet, when I saw a UFO that flew an erratic pattern, left, then right, then left again. It flew all around the place -- taking huge amounts of space -- and intermittently flashed a very bright white light in a pattern, I've never seen before. It wasn't constant, or consistent, and I couldn't predict when it would flash again -- then it vanished. It was flying towards the west, but not low when it did. Thanks to Nora CANADA HUGE OBJECT FLOATS DOWN VALLEY TELKWA/HOUSTON -- Brian Vike reports, "A retired teacher. her son and husband all watched a "HUGE" glowing white-yellowish object fly straight down the valley from their home. Smither's Interior Newspaper reports a major sighting took place from 10 to11 AM, on July 29, 2002, when nine witnesses in different locations watched a huge glowing object. A logging contractor said it looked like an oak barrel in shape and made of metal. Two projections stuckout from the center of the object. It was cruising faster than the small aircraft they see in the area. It flew along side the Smithers Airport heading southwest. It was darker in the middle and rotating in the center. Other witnesses saw something to the right of the airport flying in a southwesterly direction. The object was round in shape and silver (metallic) in color. While they were watching this object, it up and disappeared instantly. It would have been close to the size of a normal wall clock at an approximate distance of a kilometer and a half away. They figured it was going to crash into the ground, although no one had seen this take place. PENTICTON -- My friend, who lives downstairs was outside watching the sky on August 10, 2002 . He said that he saw fast moving lights, faster then a plane and stopping in mid air and dropping straight down and disappearing for a couple of seconds. They started zigzagging around in circles and eventually formed into a triangle. I joined him and we saw four lights at one point, which were flashing all sorts of colors. They would disappear and reappear but after a while they were gone. Thanks to Brian Vike HBCC. MEXICO SEVEN UFO FLOTILLA VIDEOTAPED MEXICO CITY -- On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 7:10 PM, "Salvador Guerrero captured on video a small flotilla of seven gray barrel-shaped objects" as they were "flying over the eastern section of Mexico City." According to the report by Ufologist Ana Luisa Cid, Guerrero originally saw eight objects, but one darted away, and he was only able to catch the seven UFOs with his telephoto lens for a period of five minutes. Guerrero said. "The UFOs moved slowly in formation, three of them in a vertical line, and the remainder in a triangular formation." Thanks to Daniel Munoz NotiOVNI ARGENTINA RANCHER CLAIMS CELL PHONE TAKEN BY UFO JACINTO ARAUZ -- A rancher claims he was only a meter and a half away from a "flat, three-legged flying apparatus"- which left him immobilized. Raul Dorado, owner of a field says everything began with a noise similar to that of a "whirlwind" and he later saw a strange craft descend over him, whisking away his cellphone and leaving him momentarily speechless. "He recalls. "It was a dim green colored circumference--although in daylight, I wasn't able to note its luminosity. It had three legs and was barely a meter or meter and a half away from me," he maintained. "When I saw it, I felt something like an electrical charge and fell to the ground on my knees, paralyzed, unable to do anything, with my shotgun leaning on the ground," he continued, "I was also carrying binoculars and had a cell phone in my left hand, which was sucked up by the green circle." Senior officer Marcelo Alarcon in charge of the Jacinto Arauz Sheriff's Office said, "We placed calls that night to Raul's cell phone to see if anyone answered and on two tries, it would ring and then cut off, and on a third attempt, a sort of breathing could be heard, and then the sound of the keypad being dialed." Follow-up efforts -- indicated that the cell phone is either off or beyond the coverage area. Thanks to Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Translation (C) 2002. and Gloria Coluchi. . ENGLAND UFO LANDS IN FIELD DEVON, CORNWALL -- Western Morning News reports strange lights in the sky were seen by a number of people that prompted a flurry of calls to a local radio station on August 3, 2002. BBC Radio Cornwall dealt with the inquiries after a woman from the Southeast rang the station to report seeing lights coming down in a field. The station's Laurence Reed said the call had attracted more than its fair share of interest. He said: "We had a call from a woman from the Camelford area who said that she had seen a UFO. Dr Robert Massey of the Greenwich Observatory in London , said he could not think of an astronomical explanation for the lights. "The planet Venus is visible quite low in the sky just after sunset and it's not likely to be the International Space Station - that only looks like a fairly slow-moving light which takes three or four minutes to go right across the sky." Thanks to FarShores UFO SPOTTED FROM AIRCRAFT OVER THE NORTH SEA GOTHENBERG -- We were flying at 37,000 feet, on August 8, 2002, on a Ryan Air Flight over the North Sea at 13.30 hours when below us a white missile shaped object was flying the opposite direction at incredible speed clearing the horizon in about thirty seconds. The object left no trails and there were no signs of jet or rocket propulsion. Later we saw a conventional aircraft at the same altitude and in comparison this aircraft was moving at roughly fifty times slower than the previous object and was at least ten times smaller. Thanks to Ron Peploe and UFO UK News AJames@emufora.freeserve.co.uk GERMAN POLICE OFFICERS CHASE RED OBJECT L=C3=9CBECK -- Chief of Police Achim K=C3=A4hler and his colleague Dirk Sch=C3=B6ning were on night patrol, when they saw a bright light racing across the sky that at first they thought was an aircraft crashing. What was strange about it was that the fiery object flew on and at such speed that it could not be caught by the chasing police auto. "I saw a *circle of* red fire," said Salvatore Cairoli. The object flew apparently intelligent controlled towards Travemuende, before it turned off to the right and disappeared. The operations center immediately made inquiries with the air traffic control in Bremen and with the Air Base of the German Federal Armed Forces in Jagel about low- altitude flights -- but found nothing! Thanks to FarShores translation http://quest4wisdom.tripod.com/skepsiswatchers/ UKRAINE STRANGE BLINKING LIGHTS CRIMEA -- Anton Anfalov says, "I would like to report that on July 31, 2002, at 22:15 PM, I saw a strange object that flashed a yellow light in the sky. Then I noticed strange dim yellow blinking light high up that flew south over the Crimean peninsula possibly in space. The object did not look like an ordinary satellite because of its constant blinking. It obviously wasn't any aircraft, most have white or red flashing lights, not yellow ones. Thanks to Anton Anfalov, Research Specialist for MUFON in Ukraine, UKUFAS (Ukrainian UFOlogical Association) an@crimea.com http://www.tele13.cl/cgi- tele13/video-mil.pl?url2 GREECE ALIENS LAND AND DAMAGE CROPS PRINI -- Aliens have landed on farmers' fields and are destroying the crops. A farmer from Koziakas region reports bizarre flying objects that landed in his field last week wreaked havoc with his wheat field. "A disc-shaped object appeared over my field, it was full of holes!" said Athanassos Tsioukas. The farmer confused by what he saw, rushed to the local coffee shop. "When we got back to the field the aliens had gone, but their machine had left markings in the soil, each as deep as 20 cm. My crops had been cut off." Farmer Apostolos Patramanis who owns the next the field is another witness of the landing. "Bright flashes light up the sky and then a huge object appeared and landed on Tsiokas's crops" he claims. The children said, they also saw the sky glistening above the village, when the object was landing. In recent years, growing numbers of UFO sightings have also been reported in Cyprus, Greece. Thanks to Sirius BULGARIA ALSO REPORTS UFOs=E2=80=A6. KIRCAALI -- It has been reported that the residents of the Vizrojdentsi district have been witnessing a show by UFOs every night. The "Standart" daily newspaper published in Sofia, wrote that ongoing visits by UFOs for three days was first reported by 14-year-old youngster Anton Dimitrov. Anton describes the first UFO as a triangle-shaped bright red object. "Two other UFOs joined the first one making 8 or 10 circles in the sky and then disappeared over Kircaali Dam" he says. Thanks to Sirius UFO Space Sciences Research Center, Turkey NEPAL FIREBALL IN SKY TERRORIZES NEPALESE KATHMANDU [AFP] The Weekend Australian of August 11, 2002, reports, Many residents of Southwestern Nepal are living in fear after seeing a fireball swoop down from the sky to attack a woman two nights in a row. The Kathmandu Post quoted residents of Nepalgunj saying the UFO would target people sleeping on their terraces and roofs to escape the summer heat. "Sahim Khan, 55, was sleeping peacefully on her terrace when the fireball- like object flew towards her ready to attack her and when we rushed towards Khan's house, it disappeared instantly." Residents said the same ball of fire had come after Khan the night before. Superintendent of police, Gokarna Bahadur Pal, told the paper he had seen a red object in the sky but did not know what it was. Rumors were circulating in the town that a fireball killed a woman several days ago in a village in neighboring India. Thanks to: FarShores UFO News - www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/index.htm RUSSIAN HUNDREDS WATCH UFO DOGFIGHT OVER AIRBASE SEROV -- Vickie York reports, "Hundreds of awestruck eyewitnesses watched in shock and disbelief as 36 UFOs waged a spectacular dogfight above a Russian air base!" The incredible aerial battle, which took place at about 5,000 feet, was seen by Russian air force officers and two visiting foreign journalists, from Poland and Latvia. "For twelve minutes, the sky was ablaze with rays fired from the battling starships," says Polish news reporter Igor Wroclawski, who was there to cover an air show. "Several of the craft that were hit appeared to be damaged by the rays and one of them caught fire and crashed into the mountains." The dogfight erupted at 2:05 AM on May 11, at the foothills of the Ural Mountains. Radar first detected two groups of massive objects entering Russian air space, and the base was put on full alert." "When I went outside some soldiers were pointing up in the sky," says Wroclawski. "I looked up and I could see dozens of saucer-shaped objects about 90 feet in diameter circling overhead." Within minutes of the initial radar sightings, the two sets of flying discs opened fire "The weapons were as deafening as thunder and they lit up the entire night sky," says Wroclawski." After twelve minutes, the UFOs took off to the south. The Russian government emphatically denies the report. CROP CIRCLES SCORE BIG AT THE BOX OFFICE "Signs" invaded theaters last weekend, setting box office records for star Mel Gibson and director M. Night Shyamalan. The story of extraterrestrials and crop circles captured $60.3 million the first week. It was by far the biggest debut for a film starring Gibson and/or Shyamalan, who directed 1999's The Sixth Sense. The crop circle phenomenon helped propel Signs, says Dick Cook, chairman of Walt Disney Studios. NANCY TALBOT CALLED TO ANNOUNCE A NEW CROP CIRCLE WEBSITE. I urge you to visit http://www.bltresearch.com. She just returned from Maine and is now working on Crop circles in New York and Idaho HUBBLE TELESCOPE REVEALS 100,000 GALAXIES in a small area of the sky indicating there are more galaxies in our universe than previously thought. Recent discoveries of over 100 planets outside our own solar system indicate our galaxy alone should have about 100 million Earth like planets. PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO photographs available and data on their propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham Bethune is available for $10.00. Send check or money order to G. Filer 222 Jackson Road, Medford, New Jersey 08055. THE UFO STORE -- Your purchases at the UFO Store will help pay for the UFO display at the Air Victory Museum. Go for the widest selection of UFO books, CDs, and videos on the net at: http://www.filersfiles.com. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George Filer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Alexander From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:33:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:33:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Alexander >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >Hi Robert, >Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >than it is to try to convince them of anything. >And I agree, we all need to take some responsibility for >'ufology' as members of the community. On a grass-roots level >that translates into our supporting (with our dollars) those who >are attempting to conduct serious research, and boycotting >others who are not. >Wait and see how many charlatans and con-men leave the field >once people stop attending their lectures and purchasing their >books. The only practical method of removing a lot of the >'clutter in ufology is to cut off the flow of green-backs to >certain individuals - who are nothing more than parasites >anyway. Hi John & List, Regarding debunkers, I think the idea to expose their 'kookiness' is best done in a humourous manner. Since the Skeptibunkers wont give up their "Swamp Gas" we should at least get a good laugh at them. Since Dr. Nickell's appearance on 'Strange Days... Indeed', a few weeks ago, it occured to me that they are, for all intents and purposes, identical to usenet trolls and should be treated as such.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 HUFOBC Article From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:22:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:38:05 -0400 Subject: HUFOBC Article Hi List Here is the newspaper article which just came out today in the Smithers Interior newspaper. Also if you go to the URL below, which is to my site, there is a great photo of Gordon Stewart standing at the bottom of his driveway by a sign his neighbors made of a UFO with an alien inside. Great photo and certainly all done in good fun. Gordon had as much fun with it as everyone else. http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/HQTS1.html Take care Brian BTW - Almost every newspaper in northern BC is carrying this story, also my dad phoned me a while ago from Vancouver, B.C. to tell me the article is also running in British Columbia's major newspaper for the province, the Vancouver Province. So guys, this helps us all bring the subject of UFOs to the general public. Again, some of the papers have carried the news story on the front page. ------- UFOs: To Be Or Not To Be By Nicole Fitzgerald The Interior News www.interior-news.com Smithers, B.C. Wednesday, August 14, 2002 After an article on UFO sightings in Telkwa and Houston was published in last week's edition of The Interior News, reports on UFO sightings are flying in and credibity of the sightings are gaining momentum. "I can't keep up with all that is going on, " said an excited and exhausted Houston UFO researcher Brian Vike. A flurry of phone calls, on-site interviews and investigative research has left Vike with little sleep. Since the papers hit the stands, five witnesses came forward, claiming they saw the white ball of light Telkwa resident Gordon Stewart glimpsed on the evening of July 29. After reading the paper, Quick teacher Dina Hanson called Stewart to share the details of her sighting, which she recorded in her journal the day after her experience. Her son, civic engineer Ryan Hanson also saw the object, which partially matched Stewarts's description. The Hanson's sighting also took place July 29, five minutes earlier than Stewarts's sighting, traveling in a southwesterly direction from Quick towards Telkwa. Both observations commented on the awe striking brightness and size of the light; the white and yellow hues and soundless travel at a speed, which exceeded the propulsion of a man-made object. Some of the differences between the two incidents was that Dina's light shape was an elongated circle opposed to Stewart's round one. Dina also noted a slight downward trajectory to her object, unlike Stewart's parallel flight pattern. However, Ryan introduced that because the object was moving away from his mother and himself, the object may have just appeared to be dropping because of their perspective. Dina originally attributed her experience to a meteorite sighting, but after a phone call to a professor at the University of Northern B.C. revealed that meteorites produce sound, Dina is uncertain. "I am pretty cynical about things like UFO's, " she said. "But because there was no sound, I think it is remotely possible it was something else." A Smithers family of late night hot tubbers comprised of both adults and children also contacted Stewart, sharing a similar story, adding that the light engaged in a series of loops. Smithers resident Dan Derbyshire was also added to the list in an unrelated sighting. However, he wanted to support those stumbling upon these unexplainable phenomenon's. "Sometimes people feel they are the only ones (that are seeing unusual sights)," Derbyshire said, "But I thought I'd let them know, they aren't alone." Like many other UFO reports, the edges of reality expand with the number of incidents reported as viewers digest science fiction's fanciful imagination with tangible physical experiences. "It was not what I classify as a flying saucer," Derbyshire noted of the craft, which reminded him of a metallic 40-gallon barrel, heading towards Houston at an estimated 300 kilometers per hour. He stated he is a UFO believer, but dismissed his incident as an American flight exercise in one breath while pondering over why he heard no sound in another. His experience neither fits H.G. Wells' War of The Worlds where aliens employ mass destruction in tea- cup-and-saucer shaped crafts nor did it fit with the characteristics of a man-made aircraft. Reality and rationale collided as he attempted to interpret what he saw. Unlike a plane, there were no wings on the ribbed object and its flight was soundless, Derbyshire noted. Unlike many UFO sightings, the object did not emanate a white glowing light nor assume the regular saucer form, he added. Vike surmises Derbyshire's suspicions are correct after a series of phone calls attributed the sighting to a military reconnaissance drone. Although if this assessment is correct, many more questions arise about what is going on for Vike. "A secret military exercise?" Vike questioned. "Who knows". Vike's suspicions are rising as reports of military trucks are detected around Houston and the Telkwa High Road. Vike and his wife also saw and heard the hum of large turbo propellers of military type crafts flying over Houston on August 8. "Something is going on," Vike alleged. Despite the couple both seeing and hearing the two military crafts, the Smithers air tower told Vike there was no air activity in the Houston vicinity. Stewart is heartened by the additional reports coming in. "(People) can't say I've lost my marbles," Stewart laughed. "There are too many people who have seen it. I am not the only one."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Disclosure2003 Press Release - August 14, 2002 From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:46:15 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:41:34 -0400 Subject: Disclosure2003 Press Release - August 14, 2002 D I S C L O S U R E 2 0 0 3 MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett Press Release - August 14, 2002 Bethesda, MD - Stephen Bassett has been nominated to the November ballot as an independent candidate for the House of Representatives in the 8th Congressional District. He will be joined there by the Republican incumbent, Constance Morella, and the winner of the September 10 Democratic primary. This campaign will represent a milestone in American politics. Mr. Bassett will be the first person to appear on any federal or gubernatorial, general election ballot who speaks to the fact of an extraterrestrial presence manifest about the planet and the government imposed embargo on the truth of that fact. The campaign website is: www.Disclosure2003.net While the candidate will address a range of national issues in media appearances and on the campaign website, the following key areas of importance will be foremost: 1) Disclosure, the formal acknowledgment by the U.S. government of an extraterrestrial presence, is inevitable. The current administration should take advantage of favorable conditions and move to disclose in early 2003. 2) Open, comprehensive congressional hearings should be initiated immediately to take the testimony of dozens of high ranking, former government and agency employees who have come forward with firsthand experience relating to an extraterrestrial presence and the government imposed truth embargo. See: www.disclosureproject.org 3) The impact of the extraterrestrial presence on the growth and tenor of the U.S. intelligence infrastructure since 1947. See: UFOs and the National Security State - Richard Dolan 4) The unacceptable manner in which the top-tier news media have covered UFO/ET research and the "politics of disclosure" and the inappropriate relationship which has evolved between top-tier news media and the U.S. intelligence infrastructure. See: Missing Times: News Media Complicity in the UFO Cover-up - Terry Hansen 5) Extraordinary technologies of global impact, which may be sequestered behind the national security curtain and held hostage to the truth embargo. See: The Day After Roswell - Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso 6) The 4-year effort by Laurance Rockefeller to convince the President of the United States, William Clinton, to engage the UFO/ET issue and open the government files. See: www.presidentialufo.com 7) The multiple-agency suppression of two studies of the matter of a manifest extraterrestrial intelligence initiated by the Carter White House in 1977. See: www.presidentialufo.com Stephen Bassett is the founder of Paradigm Research Group; Executive Director of the Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee (X-PPAC, pronounced "expack"), the first PAC in history to target the political implications of UFO/ET phenomena; author of the Paradigm Clock website; and a political columnist/commentator. He is the only registered lobbyist in the U.S. representing UFO/ET research/activist organizations. He announced his candidacy on April 19, 2002. _________________________________________________ Transparent government, private citizenry _________________________________________________ Campaign Headquarters Bethesda/Gaithersburg 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 Phone: 301-990-4290 Fax: 301-990-1099 Email: Disclosure2003@aol.com Website: www.disclosure2003.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Physical Evidence - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:27 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 02:49:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Friedman >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 >>Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up ><snip> >>It _should_ take nothing less than physical evidence to prove >>that UFOs are ET spacecraft, which is what practically everyone >>here is either claiming or trying hard not to. >The public interest in Ufology derives from the idea that UFOs >are space vehicles sent to earth from some place in the universe. >I learned, from the late Dr. Allen Hynek, to be more cautious in >our support of the ET hypothesis. He implied that some vastly >important scientific phenomenon or some big secret, which he >hoped to find out, may lie behind the UFO mystery. He never find >it or if he knew it he never said it. >I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >alternative hypothesis others than the ET spacecraft, and which >one you think, the alternatives, are? I could never convince Allen Hynek to do his homework about interstellar travel, fission and fusion rockets, and related matters. As with many astronomers, he was quite ignorant of advanced technology in these and related areas and kept using the analogy that if the thickness of one playing card represents the distance to the moon, then the distance to the nearest star is represented by 19 miles of playing cards. This is thinking linearly i.e. if one wants to go 20 times as far it will take 20 times as long. Totally inappropriate for space travel. For example doubling one's velocity at burnout on the way to the moon will get one there 20 times faster. Astronomers are certainly aware,for example, that the amount of heat radiated from a surface goes as the 4th power of the temperature. So twice as hot, 16 times as much heat emitted per unit area. I would suggest my 1999 MUFON paper 'Star Travel? YES'. Let us not forget Dr. Campbell, an astronomer who 'scientifically' determined that the required initial launch weight of a rocket able to get a man to the moon and back would be a million, million tons. He was too high by a factor of 300,000,000. Secondly, the question should not be what are UFOs? It should be are any UFOs ET spacecraft?. The answer is yes. Are any UFOs secret government vehicles, or natural phenomena or man made reentering objects or searchlights on clouds... yes, yes, yes, YES! Because most people are not 7' tall, does not mean that no person is 7' tall. The list of false claims made by very well educated professional people is very lengthy... mostly because they are expressing opinions totally outside their areas of expertise. They can't imagine that technological progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable way and is not just an extrapolation of the past. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:19:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser >From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence <snip> >I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >alternative hypothesis others than the ET >spacecraft, and which >one you think, the alternatives, are? A _very_ good question, and I'm glad you asked. I hope others here will chime in as well. I for one, while on the one hand admitting a fond hope for the ETH, am constantly on the lookout for other possibilities. Just because it's unexplained and not prosaic, doesn't mean it _has_ to be little grey men. (Just because we don't know how the universe came into existence, doesn't mean God did it). A few other possibilities I've considered without discarding: - Experimental military craft - Holographic projections (I will discuss this at length in a later post) - Mind control experimentation - Extradimensionals I think that by keeping my mind open to these and a few other possibilities, I will be less likely to subconsciously discard data that doesn't fit any one "pet" hypothesis. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:35:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:20:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Rimmer >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >than it is to try to convince them of anything. I quite agree. However on this list it appears that the normal way of dealing with sceptics is to start calling people 'Pelicanists' and simply avoid answering any of the points they raise. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:46:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:19:40 EDT >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 >>Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - >NORAD Follow Up] >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto ><ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:58:15 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>It _should_ take nothing less than physical evidence to prove >>that UFOs are ET spacecraft, which is what practically everyone >>here is either claiming or trying hard not to. >>I hope someday we find that evidence, but I think we're putting >>the cart before the horse. >>What we should be attempting to prove (and I think we've just >>about done it) is what UFOs are _not_. >>They are not _all_ misperceptions and hoaxes - something very >>strange is definitely happening in the skies, something that >>should not be there in the first place. >>To my mind, that should be _all_ we should have to say at this >>point, and good scientists, in a multitude of disciplines, >>should scratch their heads and say, "Well, I don't believe in >>Little Grey Men, but I'll be darned if I can come close to >>explaining these things." At which point they should grab their >>lab coats and microscopes and start getting their hands dirty >>trying to come up with the answer. Isn't that what we put them >>through college for? >>Guys like you and me shouldn't have to put in decades of >>research and rack up $500 phone bills. And I maintain we will >>gain ground faster with the egghead types when we (A) stop >>insisting on attaching our little pet hypothesis to the data we >>submit to them, and (B) apply some good ol' country skepticism >>to filter out the bogus and questionable cases so that we are >>handing over a solid database. >Jim, Larry: >That's a pretty good prescription, without harder >evidence, IMO. Bob: I just don't know what you want in terms of "harder evidence" to back up the statement that something unknown is happening in the skies. I am in agreement with some here that eyewitness reports, when it crosses a certain line in terms of quantity _and_ quality, becomes hard evidence. Science, as it has been practiced up to now, does not accomodate this evidence, but I'm afraid it will need to. If a man reports seeing a line of elephants dressed in tutus dancing the can-can down Broadway, you can dismiss him as a lunatic. If 250,000 people report it, I don't care if you can't see it yourself, you'd better start searching for a cause other than "mass hysteria." ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 CCCRN News: Previous Formation Reports - 1998, From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 03:56:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:48:06 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Previous Formation Reports - 1998, CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 14, 2002 _____________________________ PREVIOUS FORMATION REPORTS - 1998, 1976 AND 1941 Some previously unknown or unreported formations have been added to the archives on the web site, from 1998, 1976 and even 1941, after confirmation from farmers / witnesses. In brief: Barrhead, Alberta - Early July, 1998 Circle with five 'wings' or 'spokes' attached in barley, approximately 8.1 metres (27 feet) diameter. Soil had 'carbon- like' smell. Bright light reported over area at about 3:00 am the same night by neighbour. Still visible in the field in 2002, subsequent crops planted in the area since the formation's initial appearance would not grow. Sylvan Lake, Alberta - Late July or Early August,1976 Circle in wheat or barley, approximately 2.4 metres (8 feet) - 3.6 metres (12 feet) diameter. Flat, swirled lay. Near edge of field which bordered a camp property. Landis, Saskatchewan - Late September, 1941 Two circles close together in slew hay / grass, approximately 6 - 7.6 metres (20 - 25 feet) diameter each. Flat lay. No footprints or tracks seen in surrounding 3 foot tall crop. Discovered while duck hunting. The Landis circles are the oldest known formation on record so far for Canada. Also, the survey diagrams for the Georgetown and Limehouse, Ontario formations of 2002 have been updated on the web site. http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: JUFOS - Resta From: Peter Resta <SPR100@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:12:27 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:50:34 -0400 Subject: Re: JUFOS - Resta As someone who has published research in JUFOS, I can absolutely assure you (all) that it _was_ reviewed in considerable detail! Peter Resta
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 33 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:08:39 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:52:13 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 33 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 33 August 13, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ SAUCER LANDS IN GREECE "Dozens of peasants saw a UFO land in a farm field just outside the village of Kozyaka," near Trikala in northern Greece. "According to the Athens News Agency (ANA), "The flying object the peasants saw was disc-shaped and 10 meters (33 feet) in diameter, with hundreds of small portholes on it. The UFO landed and left traces on the field." The incident "took place Wednesday (August 7, 2002) during the morning hours." According to ANA, "as unbelievable as the incident sounds, the flying saucer was also sighted by hundreds of villagers in the Trikala region. These villagers described the flying saucer as an object which caused enormous light flashes and made unusual maneuvers in the sky while they were watching it." "ANA also reported that UFOs have been sighted by the locals during the past several days. The short visits of these UFOs are now being considered commonplace by the villagers from the area." Trikala is in the Pinios River valley about 185 kilometers (111 miles) northwest of Athens, the capital of Greece. (Many thanks to Haktan Akdogan of Sirius Space Sciences Research Center of Istanbul for this report.) GREEN UFO PARALYZES ARGENTINIAN RANCHER "A well-known resident of Jacinto Arauz," a town in Argentina's Buenos Aires province, "was hospitalized late Friday (August 2, 2002) in a state of shock after having had a strange experience in a field he owns." According to investigating police officer Marcelo Alarcon, "on Friday afternoon, Raul Dorado, 64, was touring the field located 5 kilometers (3 miles) northeast of the town (Jacinto Arauz), as he is accustomed to do. The man explained to the police that 'he had heard sound on two occasions, like a whirlwind, which drew his attention. The third time, he saw something he describes as a green circle with three legs hovering over him.'" "At that moment, Dorado fell to the ground and, according to his story, he carried a shotgun, binoculars and a cellphone, the last of which was 'taken from his hand, and he could clearly see it being sucked into the object, which was apparently at low altitude.'" In an interview with the newspaper La Nueva Provincia, Dorado described his experience with the green UFO. "'As I was heading back toward the farmhouse, where I'd left the car, that's when the thing appeared,'" Dorado said, "'It was a dim, green-colored circumference- -although in daylight I wasn't able to see its luminosity. It had three legs and was barely a meter (3.3 feet) to a meter-and-a-half (5 feet) away from me,' he mentioned." "'When I saw it,' he continued, 'I felt something like an electrical charge. I fell to the ground on my knees, paralyzed, unable to do anything, with my shotgun leaning on the ground. I was also carrying binoculars and had a cellphone in my left hand, which was sucked up by the green circle. I saw it rising and disappearing.'" "As the object disappeared toward the east, Dorado remained at the location for an hour before being able to rise and walk back to his car, returning to town in a state of shock." "Aided by his wife and neighbors, the man was admitted to the local hospital where he was cared for by Dr. Ana Maria Lazaric." "Following this incident, Deputy Sheriff Daniel Rosane" decided to do some investigating on his own. Rosane "reported that he has since dialed the cellphone's number a few times. It would ring and then made the typical sound of when buttons are being pressed to dial. In a subsequent attempt, he discovered that the phone was answered but only heard breathing sounds. In later attempts, the operator reported that the phone was either (shut) off or out of range." (See the Argentinian newspapers La Arena of La Pampa for August 4, 2002, "Local resident claims seeing a UFO; hospitalized in shock," and La Nueva Provincia for August 9, 2002, "Rancher claims being paralyzed by unknown object." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para eses articulos de diario.) THREE BURROS KILLED AS MUTILATIONS CONTINUE IN ARGENTINA "The discovery of three dead burros, showing signs of mutilation, raised concerns among residents of El Churchal in the department of Humahuaca," in Argentina's Jujuy province, "according to police sources." "The animals, belonging to Miguelina Martinez, were found lying in a pasture field. One of them was missing an eye, another the tail and part of the anus, while the third one, a pregnant female, had a circular wound in the lower abdomen and was missing its fetus." "The discovery of the mutilated animals was corroborated by Sixto Vasquez Suleta, an author from Humahuaca and former cultural affairs director for the province of Jujuy, who stated that the case is not normal and is not related to normal predator activity." "Vasquez Suleta stated that the animal bodies gave off no odor, while dogs refused to approach them, and there were no signs of violence or any struggles in the place where they were found. The mutilation claims were made at the Humahuaca Sheriff's Office, whose headquarters dispatched a mission to the scene to learn further details." Elsewhere in Argentina, "at the El Nauco ranch, 50 hectares in size...Julia Cavanagh is the daughter of the pasture field's administrator," and the ranch is "located 70 kilometers (42 miles) west of Chacharramendi, where she said that from June 20 (2002) to date (Wednesday, August 7, 2002) 'six cows and four bulls have been found mutilated.'" Srta. Cavanagh complained, "'Local police do not take down reports involving mutilated cows because there are orders from above (not to do so--S.C.).'" Argentinian police denied that mutilation cases are being covered up. "'There exists no order to cease accepting reports on cattle mutilations,' said the chief of Regional Unit 1, Juan Carlos Gorris, 'Under no circumstances can we stop accepting reports because we are obligated to act. The judge will determine later if a crime should be investigated or not.'" "Gorris explained that part" of the El Nauco ranch "falls into the jurisdiction of Regional Unit 1 in Telan, and the other under Regional Unit 4 in Chacharramendi. The officer in charge of Regional Unit 4, Deputy Sheriff Osvaldo Olie, indicated that 'we are in the middle of an investigation. We still do not have official information to give out because we're just finding out what happened.'" In western Argentina's Catamarca province, "a mutilated bovine, missing its genitals, tongue, ears and eyes was found in recent hours (Thursday, August 8, 2002) at El Penon in Catamarca, near the El Rodeo summer village, 38 kilometers (22 miles) from" San Fernando del Valle, the provincial capital, "according to the National Health and Agroalimentary Quality Service (Spanish acronym SENASA--J.T.)." "The discovery occurred at Cerro Ambato (hill), according to the owner of the mutilated cow--Carlos Sosa- -who later made the corresponding claim to the El Rodeo Sheriff's Office of the alleged case of 'damages.'" "Police confirmed that, according to Sosa, the animal in question is a cow missing its genitals, eyes, tongue and ears, and with a hole in the area of the knee, but which shows no signs of decomposing." "With the three burros found this week in the province of Jujuy, the number of animal species being mutilated rises to seven. Aside from bovines, which are involved in 90 percent of these events, horses, pigs, sheep, guanacos (a small relative of the llama--J.T.) and wild boars have also been mutilated." In Buenos Aires province, rancher Hugo Valdez "owns property 50 kilometers (30 miles) northeast of" Patagones "and about 5,000 meters distant from the first (mutilation) cases, at the Miguel Angel Cordoba farm." Valdez reported, "My son Ignacio made the discovery while out hunting with a friend. They approached the dead animal when they saw it." "According to Valdez, the animal's death could have occurred ten days ago," or on or about Wednesday, July 31, 2002. "Upon reaching the site, they saw that it presented the characteristics of the mutilated animals. 'We could readily see that in part of the lower jawbone, the bone was entirely dessicated. Right there, in this part, it gave the impression of an animal that had been dead for a very long time,' he added." "This was not the case, however, with the rest of the body parts. On the other hand, the udder had been cut off in a circular manner, and the anus had been extracted altogether. The digestive and reproductive tracts, as well as the bladder, were absent." "'It was also missing its tongue but not its trachea. We were surprised when we cut the shoulder blade and turned (the animal) around. There, the flesh seemed perfectly natural, since an artery was cut and the blood was coagulated. We opened the abdomen and the rumen, and we could see that the (cow's) dung was as one would find in a recently butchered animal,' explained the rancher." In addition, "another tank-emptying case occurred in a pasture field near Hugo Valdez's property, according to the owner, who refused to be identified. One of his large-capacity Australian (water) tanks was found completely empty. The event occurred only a few days before" Ignacio Valdez discovered the mutilated cow. (See the Argentinian newspapers El Diario de la Palma for August 7, 2002, "Contradictions emerge in reporting animal mutilations," La Nueva Provincia for August 9, 2002, "Three burros mutilated in Jujuy," Agencia Noticias de TELAM for August 9, 2002, "Mutilated bovine found in Catamarca," and La Nueva Provincia for August 9, 2002, "Ten reports in Patagones." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para eses articulos de diario.) UFOs REPORTED IN THREE COUNTIES OF WISCONSIN UFO activity is on the rise in the USA's state of Wisconsin. On Sunday, July 14, 2002, just after 4 a.m., a woman eyewitness in Ashland, Wisconsin (population 8,620) reported, "I had just logged off the Internet, went to the bathroom and got a snack. Then I fed my cat, got my nightgown on and then went to bed. I got just about all nestled in when a big flash of light came through the window, and weird noises began, and the whole house shook." "The lights kept turning on and off--the TV kept turning on and off also. It would get very dark, and then bright flashing lights would appear." "I could not move. It was like I was frozen. I'm still shaking. I cannot get it out of my mind. I was not dreaming this. I swear--it really happened." (Editor's Note: Ashland is sometimes considered "the UFO capital of Wisconsin.") On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 10:36 p.m., in Three Lakes, Wisconsin, 25 miles (40 kilometers) northeast of Rhinelander, the male witness reported, "I was on vacation with my family at three cabins by the lake. My uncle and I made a fire. When we finished the fire, we sat out on the pier and looked at the sky for a satellite that we see every year up there." "Then, suddenly, we saw a whitish-color, circle- shaped object heading south from the north (Michigan's Upper Peninsula--J.T.) It had no sound or wings or a tail like a comet or an asteroid. But it was weird because the Northern Lights (Aurora Borealis--J.T.) appeared, but the shape wasn't the Northern Lights because it didn't change color (like the aurora--J.T.) or move (undulate--J.T.) like the Northern Lights. It was moving about 70 miles per hour (112 kilometers per hour). That's why we saw it for ten seconds." (Editor's Comment: The description of the auroral effect is interesting. Did the witnesses see a UFO actually coming out of hyperspace?) On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 10:40 p.m., Scott T. was in Mount Pleasant, a suburb of Racine, Wisconsin, and "I was driving north on Highway 31 about a half-mile from Highway 11. I happened to notice something out of the corner of my eye. When I looked, I could see the object. It was just over the treeline and the size of a quarter (USA 25-cent coin--J.T.) and very bright white. It was about 5 miles (8 kilometers) from me in the sky, maybe a little closer." "It was hovering there for a few seconds, and then it turned on its axis, and it seemed to stretch out to about the size of my fist. I could kind of make out four lights that were very close together, but the light was too bright to really tell. Then some trees blocked my view for ten seconds and, since I was heading north, I figured I would see it when the trees were out of my way." However, "it had vanished at the stoplight at the intersection of (Highways) 31 and 11. I searched the sky, but I never saw it again." (For the Ashland sighting, see the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for August 9, 2002, "UFOs still in Northland?" page 1B. For the Three Lakes and Racine sightings, many thanks to John Hoppe of UFOWisconsin.) (Editor's Comment: This must be Weird Wisconsin Week at UFO Roundup. Look what else is going on in the USA's Badger State.) TRACKER GETS BIGFOOT ON AUDIO TAPE IN WISCONSIN "Dennis Murphy of Plymouth," Wisconsin (population 7,781) "is a hunter." "Over the years, armed with a camera and a supply of Plaster of Paris, Murphy has hit the woods of northwestern Wisconsin in search of a creature so rare that no one has ever bagged one: Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, or as the Ojibwe (or the Anishinabe, an indigenous people of the north central USA--J.T.) call him Bugway- jinini, the Wild Man." "Murphy, 54, said he first encountered two aging Bigfoots while searching for a fishing spot 30 years ago. He mostly kept the sighting to himself, fearing he would be laughed at and ridiculed." "He still tracks the elusive creature and believes he captured its image on film during a recent foray into the woods near Danbury," Wisconsin, a small town on the St. Croix River, approximately 50 miles (80 kilometers) south of the "Twin Ports" of Superior, Wisconsin and Duluth, Minnesota. "He said he didn't see the creature but found its image when he had his film developed after his return." "While he didn't see the creature this summer, the footprints and the sounds he heard from the woods reassured him that Bigfoot is real." "'I heard him following me. And I heard what sounded like a horse whinnying. I wasn't afraid. This is not a creature to be afraid of.' he said, 'With all the changes and all the growth, I was very happy to realize they were still out there and not extinct.'" "Since April (2002), Murphy has ventured out about 20 times in search of Bigfoot. He remains confident and optimistic." "'The anticipation is always there,' he said, 'I think I can find this creature.'" "Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources officials remain unconvinced that there is a huge, undiscovered mammal stalking the north woods." "'We've not had anyone, to the best of my recollection, claim to have seen Bigfoot,' said Jim Bishop, public affairs officer for the Wisconsin DNR's northern region." (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for August 5, 2002, "Man insists Bigfoots still roam the north woods," page 1C and 3C.) DIAMOND-SHAPED UFO SEEN IN DAYTONA BEACH, FLORIDA It was Saturday, August 3, 2002, at 12:30 a.m., eyewitness John Erickson reported, "When I first noticed it, I was on the corner of White Street and Brentwood Street" in Daytona Beach, Florida (population 64,112), a city 253 miles (404 kilometers) north of Miami. "My house is only three blocks north." "I was driving home, heading north, when I saw a brightly-lit, multicolored light in the sky to my left front (northwest). When I got home, I could still see it. I called my wife at work and told her what I was seeing. I went to where she works, right across the street from the famous (Daytona) Raceway, and we both watched it until about 1:30 a.m." "I tried to show it to another employee, but he had very poor eyesight and was unable to see it. The object was about two to three times the size of a large star. The clarity of the blinking lights was amazing. I am retired from the Army infantry, so you could consider me a skilled observer." "The lights were red, blue, green and purple. It was roughly diamond-shaped, slightly elongated from top to bottom. When I first saw it at home, I could see a darkened saucer shape surrounding the blinking lights when I was using the binos (binoculars--J.T.). The shadowy saucer shape I noticed at home was not visible (back) at work." "It never moved, that I saw. When I first saw it at work, it was at about four fingers held at arm's length above the trees. When I came back out, after getting that other employee, it was only one finger-length above the trees. The sky was dark with mottled clouds. At 1:30 a.m., the sky clouded up fully." (Email Form Report) TWO UFO SIGHTINGS ARE REPORTED IN CANADA On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 10:12 p.m., Tatiana, age 12, sighted a UFO in her hometown of New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada, on the Fraser River just east of Vancouver. She reported, "Before I saw the UFO, I saw a big bright light in the sky. I did not know what it was. Then the big bright light disappeared. Then I saw an oval object. It was going north, and then it went west. It was higher than an airplane, but it went lower and lower, and then it went high-high-high. I had it in view for six to ten minutes. That's all I remember." Two days earlier, on Saturday, August 3, 2002, Dave V. saw a UFO near Ottawa, the capital of Canada. Dave reported, "While driving with family and guests from Montreal southwest of Highway 417 and south of the Walkley exit, we noticed a bright silver object hovering in the sky. It appeared to be about a half-mile (800 meters) above ground, hovering. The object was quite large and was not like anything I have seen in the sky before. I quickly told my wife to look. She pointed it out to our passengers in the back seat. My wife and son were able to get a quick look before the oblong silver object vanished before their eyes. It did not travel in any direction--it just vanished." (Email Form Reports) CHINESE RESEARCHER STUDIES ANCIENT CROP CIRCLES "One of the first documented reports of crop circle formation--the unexplained geometric designs that occur in fields of wheat and corn--appeared in Stirlingshire, Scotland (UK) in 1678. But the phenomenon was largely ignored until the 1970s and 1980s when formations began to appear with increasing frequency around the globe." "Yet is China really devoid of these unusual creations? Certainly if someone or something is trying to communicate with mankind through patterns carved into crops, China's sizable population could not be ignored." "Western experts have obviously failed to carefully consider the data from this country (China). One has only to refer to the work of Zhang Hui, a research Fellow at the Xinjiang Museum in Urumqui, to find evidence which suggests that China--with its long history--experienced crop circle phenomena long before any other civilization on this planet." "Zhang claims to have discovered more than twenty stone patterns appearing to mimic crop circle formations from other countries but pre-dating them by 3,000 years." Zhang discovered "several of these stone circle patterns, which range from single circles to more elaborate shapes, in the grasslands of Qinghe beside" China's border with Mongolia. "Zhang was intrigued. He quickly headed to Beijing," China's capital, "to consult Chinese translations of reference works by British crop circle experts." "He was amazed by the similarities." "Zhang believes the primitive people of the (Qinghe) region, after witnessing the actual formation of crop circles, concluded that the signs were a form of communication from the gods and responded in kind to the divine messages by placing rocks in the shape of the circles." "According to Zhang, one rare eyewitness described seeing a crop circle appear in a northeastern China field in only a short time while he was in the company of Red Guards. However, the event occurred during the Cultural Revolution (1966 to 1976), when such superstition was illegal, so the account went undocumented." (See the Shanghai Star for August 2, 2002, "China says crop circles appeared there 3,000 years ago." Many thanks to Chen Jilin for this newspaper article.) From the UFO Files... 1977: ELVIS--DEAD OR ALIVE? At about 1 a.m. on Tuesday, August 16, 1977, Elvis Aron Presley, 42, the singer better known to his legions of fans as "the King," called his step-brother Rick Stanley and asked him to bring a Demerol pill. Elvis said he had chipped his tooth and "was in pain." Elvis talked with Rick Stanley for over an hour about the pending divorce between Elvis's dad, Vernon Presley, and Rick's mother Dee. They also discussed Elvis's upcoming 11-day music tour. Shortly thereafter, Elvis played a game of racquetball with his 21-year-old fiancee, Ginger Alden. At 4 a.m., the couple called it quits and went to bed. Thus began what some writers have called "the strange death of Elvis Presley." "'I'll never forget his last words,' Alden says, ''Precious, I'm going to go in the bathroom and read.' And I can never forget the horror of finding his body just hours later, his face purple and his eyes blood- red.'" Ginger Alden awoke at 2 p.m. "Finally, she opened the (bathroom) door and peeped inside. What she saw was Elvis doubled up face down on the floor, with his buttocks elevated, in the fetal position. Clearly he had been sitting in the black leather and chrome chair reading and had toppled forward onto the floor. The book was still lying on the chair. (my emphasis--J.T.) Oddity Number One--Elvis is said to have had his fatal heart attack while reading. If so, he didn't tumble right to the floor. Apparently, he took a few moments to close the book and place it carefully on the chair. "Alden called Graceland's security and Elvis's road manager. Joe Esposito soon rushed into the room. 'The minute I touched him I knew it was over,' recalls Esposito, 'I rolled him over and tried to give him heart massage. I couldn't open his mouth. (my emphasis-- J.T.)'" This was a clear indication that rigor mortis had already set in, meaning that Elvis had died at least six hours earlier, most likely sometime between 4 a.m. and 6 a.m. Yet what are we to make of the original report by Sgt. R.E. Millican of the Memphis, Tenn. Police Department, i.e. Report No. 2793 for August 16, 1977? Sgt. Millican wrote, "Subject: Presley, Elvis. Offense: DOA (Dead on Arrival). The above subject was brought to the Baptist Hospital after being found unconscious in the upstairs bedroom (my emphasis--J.T.) of his home (the Graceland mansion). The subject was transported by fire department and ambulance and was DOA at the hospital. Homicide and the medical examiner did make the scene at the hospital and at (Graceland) 3764 Elvis Presley Boulevard." Conflicting testimony abounds. In Albert Goldman's book Elvis, "Joe Esposito was called. When he turned Elvis over on his back, he heard a sighing sound, convincing him that Elvis was still breathing." In an interview with US Magazine dated August 24, 1984, "Ginger Alden says she found the body at 12:30 p.m., not 2 p.m." Most intriguing is the Medical Examiner's report. "According to this report, it appears that although the body was discovered at 1400 (2 p.m.) there is a time lapse of an hour and a half (my emphasis--J.T.) until police were notified at 1530 (3:30 p.m.) and the Medical Examiner notified at 1600 (4 p.m.). It also reads that Elvis was pronounced dead at 1530. If it's true that Elvis was DOA and rigor mortis had set in, why so long in pronouncing him dead?" Then there's the delicate matter of Elvis's weight at death. "The report of the county medical examiner in Memphis, Tenn. lists Elvis's weight at 170 pounds. A call to the examiner's office reports that all corpses are weighed and any variation would depend upon how much food the dead man had in his stomach when found." Columnist James Bacon reported, "Everyone I have talked to who saw Elvis in those last days put his weight at well over 200 pounds. One even had it as high as 250 pounds." Apparently, Elvis somehow lost 50 pounds while sitting in the bathroom reading. "Somehow, in all the confusion, order reigned. Within hours Elvis's body was reportedly autopsied, taken to the Memphis Funeral Home, embalmed and returned to the (Graceland) mansion early the next day. Cause of death was from the beginning a mystery. Elvis was encased in a specially-designed casket weighing 900 pounds which was flown in 'overnight.'" The unusual coffin triggered speculation among Memphis residents that the King had faked his death. The "extra weight" in the coffin was said to be "a special air-conditioning unit designed to keep Elvis's wax mannequin from melting in the August heat." Adding to the speculation was Elvis's lifelong business manager, Colonel Tom Parker. "The Colonel, rather than returning immediately to Memphis, flew to New York where he met with the owner of a large merchandising firm. A deal was made to merchandize Elvis via the Colonel's company, Boxcar Enterprises, owned 56 percent by the Colonel and 22 percent each by the Presley estate and the Colonel's assistant, Tom Ditkin." "Nearly two weeks after Elvis's funeral, three men were arrested 'attempting to steal the body of Elvis.' This occurred August 29, 1977. The men arrested said they did not want the body of Elvis but wanted to prove to the world that Elvis had not died and that there was no body in the crypt." "The three charged with the kidnapping attempt were merely charged with trespassing and released on bond. Later Vernon (Elvis's father) dropped all charges. Why?" As a result, on October 2, 1977, the bodies of Elvis and his mother, Gladys Love Smith Presley, were removed from the crypt at Memphis's Forest Hill Cemetery and re- interred at Graceland, in what are now the Meditation Gardens. Amazingly, the Memphis zoning board had granted Vernon Presley a variance to allow a private cemetery on the mansion grounds. Tongues really began to wag, however, when Elvis's headstone appeared at the site, bearing the name "Elvis Aaron Presley." As Gail Brewer-Giorgio points out in her book Is Elvis Alive?, the King's true name was Elvis Aron Presley. That's how it reads on the Standard Certificate of Live Birth issued at Tupelo, Lee County, Mississippi on January 8, 1935. Elvis Aron Presley is also on the King's 1953 diploma from L.C. Humes High School in Memphis. And on Elvis's U.S. Army induction papers, dated December 18, 1957. And on his DD-214 discharge form. "The marriage certificate uniting him in marriage to Priscilla Ann Beaulieu reads Elvis Aron Presley." "The Medical Examiner's Report and Death Certificate read Elvis Aron Presley." "RCA, in all their promotions, list the name as Elvis Aron Presley." "All legal contracts spell the name as Elvis Aron Presley." Giorgio-Brewer wrote, "If Elvis were not buried there, it would be a bad omen to have his name on the grave. If Elvis did not die on August 16, 1977, then it makes sense not to tempt fate by putting one's name on a tombstone...To misspell the name could be a method of saying, 'It's not me.'" Curiously, Elvis's name is also misspelled on his August 15, 1972 property settlement agreement for the divorce from Priscilla--Elvis Aaron Presley. That's how he signed the document. Could it have been Elvis's way of saying, 'It's not me. I'm not doing this.'? Much has been made of "Elvis sightings" in the past fifteen years, but few people realize that the sightings literally began the day after the King's death. According to Giorgio, on Wednesday, August 17, 1977, "a woman who worked at the reservations desk at the Memphis airport...didn't think too much of it at the time. She remembers that on August 17th, a man bearing a slight resemblance to Elvis picked up a ticket to Buenos Aires that had been reserved under the name of John Burrows." "'John Burrows' (sometimes spelled Burroughs--J.T.) was the code name Elvis Presley used--it was the name he gave to personal friends, including President Richard M. Nixon, if they wanted to get through to him." In his book, The Elvis Sightings, author Peter Eicher interviewed Louise Welling of Kalamazoo, Michigan, who reported, "About a week after Elvis's funeral, there was a man here in Kalamazoo who came on our (local) TV station and said he saw Elvis walking up Millkam Road to Oakland Drive." Throughout the 1980s, rumors persisted in Kalamazoo of the mysterious "John Burrows," who owned a sizable office building in the city. Witness Kelly B. finally managed to infiltrate the building on a day in 1986 when Burrows was known to be there. She reported, "'I turned around and looked directly into his eyes. He had on gold-rimmed glasses, a very modified version of what he used to wear, with a slight tint to them.' It wasn't the glasses that convinced her, however, it was the eyes of the King. 'I looked into his eyes. He had the Elvis Presley expression in his eyes, that I think most people who know him are familiar with...The eyes held that kind of sparkle. They were also the same shape and color eyes that Elvis had." Was Burrows simply an Elvis lookalike? Or did Elvis fake his own death in order to live a quiet life in Kalamazoo? The sightings continue to this day. In fact, there's a website devoted to them at http://www.elvissightingbulletinboard.com Such are the stange occurrences that have made the death of Elvis one of the world's enduring mysteries. (See the books Is Elvis Alive? by Gail Brewer-Giorgio, Tudor Publishing Co., New York, N.Y., 1988; The Elvis Sightings by Peter Eicher, Avon Books, New York, N.Y., 1993; Elvis by Albert Goldman, McGraw-Hill Book Co., New York, N.Y., 1981; Are You Lonesome Tonight? by Lucy de Barbin and Dary Matera, Villard Books, New York, N.Y., 1977; and Elvis and Gladys by Elaine Dundy, Macmillan Publishing Co., New York, N.Y., 1985. Also the National Enquirer for August 20, 2002, "Elvis: His Final Hours," Globe for August 20, 2002, "Elvis Death Scene," and USA Weekend for August 11, 2002, "The Elvis Files.") That's it for this week. Barring a fall of blue suede shoes at Graceland on Friday, we are hopefully done with Elvis for now. But we'll be back next week with more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:55:01 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@space.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:56:45 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:20:07 -0400 >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 00:44:55 EDT >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 02:13:13 -0400 >>>>Subject: On The Surgical Removal of Alleged Alien Implants >>>>I was contacted recently by one of Roger Lier's former >>>>(post-surgical) 'abductee' subjects. Talking to this fellow has >>>>kicked up all the same old questions I was asking five years >>>>ago. >>>>The fact that so many surgical procedures have been performed >>>>since 1995, (I'm not certain, but I think the number is about >>>>20+ so far) and nothing has yet been published by either Dr. >>>>Lier or Derrel Sims, in _any_ peer review journals (as initially >>>>advertised) is something that requires some of our collective >>>>(public) attention. >>You responded: >>Its a question many of us have been asking/wondering about as >>well since Lier/Sims showed up on the scene. Alot of surgery, >>alot of talk, a few photos and nadda, zip nothing...unless of >>course you go to Laughlin or some of the other UFO lecture >>circuit favorites. >>Ahhh the UFO lecture circuit... paid air fares, hotel rooms, and >>if you're a 'big name', a speakers fee. >John, I have done this myself as a venue to report my findings >and it is right in line with what all scientists do. Only I am >not a big name and do not make any money - just expenses >covered. >>No business like show business. >>It would all be worth the trouble if the presentations being >>made at these many conferences dealt with new information that >>had been derived from thorough investigation and rigorous >>scientific research/analysis. Research conducted by independent >>experts and professionals with no _vested_ interest in the >>outcome. >Peer pressure can also have a negative effect. Many scientists >are in fear of speaking out about their findings which do not >conform to the current zeitgeist. One of these who proceeded to >speak out about his research, though ousted from the scientific >community, now has his theory gracing the cover of Discover >magazine. >>Then, if nothing else, we'd all be learning more and more about >>the true nature of the phenomena. Instead of remaining mired in >>this perpetually stagnant limbo regarding an enigma that has >>proven to be life-disrupting for many thousands of people. >>It's high time we all started to demand strong credentials, >>experience and the very best from anyone in ufology who claims >>the title 'researcher' or 'investigator.' Right out of the box >>we'd lose about 80% of what is currently 'dead weight' to >>ufology. >I only have had a field investigator's cert from MUFON for some >years yet some of your esteemed strong credentialed >investigators have come up with explanations I would not give 2 >cents for - so this is the other side of the coin. >If you want to know the truth, you learn how to investigate from >the best, but then think for yourself and do it yourself right >out there in the dirty ditches, not by trusting someone's word >for it. >If I had believed my school science teacher I would have >believed all these planets that are being found are bogus. If I >had believed my priest I would have believed all other religions >are bogus. We learn new things by questioning the authorities >and experts. >Yes, we need experts, trained investigators - I agree, but just >trying to show that this sword has two edges. >Just another point of view, Hi Bill, And a damn fine point of view it is too. Of course, everything you say is true or possible. That reason for my post was to shine a little light on something that should be important and of concern to everyone. Something that if allowed to fall in the cracks, may result in even more abductees being subjected to surgical procedures. It's about people being cut - and nothing useful, or of any practical value, coming of it. Other than to provide a podiatrist with fodder for a book, and an excuse to make the rounds of the UFO lecture circuit. "There but for the Grace of God go I." Or even Mrs. H, or somebody else that we know or care about. My question was; how many more of these operations are necessary? I'm trying to raise questions about what it takes to get something properly investigated/analyzed, and then what it takes to get that data published in some kind of professional peer review journal. That is why I'm always calling for _independent_ professionals to be the ones performing the hard science. The material analysis. Respected, credentialed people with no interest in the outcome one way or another. One of the people involved in this truly important recovery operation identifies himself as; an alien hunter. His nemesis even has a name! He has sworn to defeat 'Mondoz' at all costs. One certified loony-tune and a foot doctor. What a "scientific" team! Yeah, that's just what you need in order to gain some credibility with the academic and scientific community. A winning combination that almost guarantees success. Doesn't it? No wonder people laugh at ufology. It _is_ laughable in great many instances. I was just asking some questions that nobody else is asking. Shining a little light on moral and ethical issues that have fallen into the cracks over time. A simple case of doing something myself because I don't see anybody else doing it. (Asking questions) Also because I am an abductee that wants some answers that I can trust. Stuff like this 'implant' mess and how it was handled really gets me by the ya-ya's. It's not right, or fair, to the subjects. What inspired my original post was a contact from one of Lier's post surgery subjects. He sounded like a bright, decent person and the more we talked, the angrier I became at Lier for not doing anything of value with material that real, live human beings had to pay a price in pain to provide. It just would have been nice if all the grief and the fuss had proven to be worth while. Had produced some answers. As it stands, _nothing_ of any value has come of it. Thought I'd say something about it. Just trying to make myself useful. Regards to you and Mrs. H, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Sightings Abound In Canada's Central Interior From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:47:12 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:56:28 -0400 Subject: Sightings Abound In Canada's Central Interior Source: The Province via canada.com, http://www.canada.com/vancouver/news/story.asp?id=3D{8ECA5644-A4CA-4881-836C= -BBAA8108F909} Stig *** Interior residents: We saw flying ball of light Nicole Fitzgerald The Province Wednesday, August 14, 2002 ** SMITHERS -- Reports of UFO sightings are flying around the central Interior and the credibility of the sightings is gaining momentum. "I can't keep up with all that is going on," said an excited and exhausted Brian Vike, a UFO researcher in Houston. Already this year, more than 70 sightings of unidentified flying objects have been reported in northern B.C. Since a local story was published last week, a handful of witnesses have come forward claiming they saw a ball of light similar to one that Telkwa resident Gordon Stewart reported seeing on July 29. Teacher Dina Hanson of Quick called Stewart to share the details of her sighting, which she recorded in her journal the day after her experience. Her son, civic engineer Ryan Hanson, also saw the object, which partially matched Stewart's description. The Hansons' sightings took place five minutes earlier than Stewart's sighting, and involved a bright light travelling at high speed in a southwesterly direction. In both cases, the observers commented on the awe-striking brightness and size of the light and the lack of associated sound. Dina Hanson originally attributed her experience to a meteorite sighting, but after a phone call to a professor at the University of Northern B.C. revealed that meteorites produce sound, she is uncertain. "I am pretty cynical about things like UFOs," she said. "But because there was no sound, I think it is remotely possible it was something else." A Smithers family of late-night hot-tubbers, two adults and their children, also contacted Stewart, sharing a similar story, adding that the light went through a series of loops. Smithers resident Dan Derbyshire reported an unrelated sighting, saying he wanted to support those stumbling upon these unexplainable phenomena. "Sometimes people feel they are the only ones [who are seeing unusual sights]," Derbyshire said. "But, I thought I'd let them know they aren't alone." He stated he is a believer in UFOs, but dismissed his own sighting as that of an American flight exercise. Vike surmises Derbyshire's suspicions are correct after a series of phone calls attributed that sighting to a military reconnaissance drone passing overhead. Stewart is heartened by the additional reports coming in. "[People] can't say I've lost my marbles," Stewart laughed. "There are too many people who have seen it. I am not the only one." ** =A9 Copyright 2002 The Province Copyright =A9 2002 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest Global Communications Corp. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Aliens Blamed For 'Ghost Blimp' Mystery 60 Years From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:09:20 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:00:22 -0400 Subject: Aliens Blamed For 'Ghost Blimp' Mystery 60 Years Source: Akron Beacon Journal (Akron, Ohio) via FortWayne.com, http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/3861712.htm Stig *** Posted on Wed, Aug. 14, 2002 'Ghost blimp' mystery remains unsolved 60 years later BY MARK J. PRICE Knight Ridder Newspapers AKRON, Ohio - KRT NEWSFEATURES ** (KRT) - There's no way we'll ever really know what happened. We can read every document, examine every photograph and explore every theory, but we'll still be no closer to learning the terrible truth. Sixty years ago, two men vanished into thin air. Navy airship L-8 was on routine patrol off the coast of San Francisco, searching for Japanese submarines in the Pacific Ocean. A few hours after its morning launch on Aug. 16, 1942, the blimp floated back to shore - minus its two-man crew - prompting one of the greatest mysteries of World War II. Where did the pilots go? The bizarre incident was of great interest in Akron, where the L-8 and other naval blimps had been built. It was regarded as a local tragedy because one of the missing pilots was a former Akron resident whose in-laws still lived in town. The L-8 wasn't intended to be a military craft. It was supposed to be a Goodyear blimp. It was built in 1941 to replace the 1940 Goodyear Ranger, which had been sold to the Navy. The war intervened, though, and the new airship was turned over to the Navy as well. Blimps were highly prized in coastal defense. Armed with machine guns and depth charges, they were quite capable of locating, tracking and bombarding enemy submarines. Goodyear delivered the L-8 in February 1942 to Moffett Field, Calif., the Navy base named for Adm. William A. Moffett, who was killed in the 1933 crash of the USS Akron zeppelin. In the world of airships, there are always Akron connections. Lt. j.g. Ernest D. Cody, 27, pilot of the L-8, had lived in Akron and was married to the former Helen Haddock, daughter of Akron Goodyear employee Richard L. Haddock and his wife, Juanita. Cody was an experienced pilot who in April 1942 may have changed the course of history by guiding the L-8 to a rendezvous with the USS Hornet in the Pacific. The naval blimp dropped off a 300-pound load of parts for the B-25 bombers that Jimmy Doolittle's Raiders would use to pound Tokyo and boost America's morale. Four months later, Cody would make history again. He and Ensign Charles E. Adams, 38, took off in the L-8 about 6 a.m. on Aug. 16 from Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay. They set a course for the Farallon Islands, about 30 miles west of the Golden Gate Bridge. An hour into the flight, Cody radioed to his base that the pilots had spotted a possible oil slick on the water's surface and were going to investigate. He was never heard from again. Shortly before noon, bathers on a beach near San Francisco looked up to see an extremely low-flying blimp. It snagged briefly on a rocky outcropping before breaking away and continuing eastward. "It was dished on top and appeared to be drifting with its motors off," witness Bruce McIntyre told a reporter in 1942. "It came in over Mussel Rock very low, then over the hill back of us. It was so low I could see shroud lines almost touching the hilltop." The sagging L-8 landed a few miles away on a street in nearby Daly City, Calif., after hitting a house and two cars. Onlookers raced to help the pilots, but there were no pilots to help. The gondola was empty. Volunteer firefighters tore open the blimp's envelope to see if the men might somehow be inside. They weren't. The fabric flattened out across the road as hundreds of spectators gathered. "The Navy is positive the men were not in the ship at any time during its derelict flight over land," the Navy announced. Investigators were baffled. The gondola's door had been propped open. The throttles were set at idle. There was no evidence of foul play or fire. The radio was in working order. A life raft and parachutes were still in the cabin, but two life vests were missing. If something had gone wrong, why hadn't the men radioed for help? Ships searched up and down the coast for weeks, but the pilots could not be found ... nor would they be. The Navy announced it "was at a loss" to explain the incident. Theories flew, but nothing seemed to fit. Did a Japanese submarine capture the men? There was no such evidence. Did the men get into a fight and accidentally fall out? Unlikely. Did one man lose his balance, hang from the gondola and then drag his would-be rescuer with him? No one knew. Cody's Akron relatives couldn't understand how such a tragedy had occurred. "My son-in-law was a level-headed and unexcitable sort of person," Juanita Haddock told a reporter in 1942. "He would have used his head in any emergency, I believe." The L-8 quickly acquired the nickname of "the ghost ship." Tales of the mysterious disappearance were embellished to include improbable details about half-eaten sandwiches and still-warm cups of coffee found in the cabin. The theories would later grow to include UFO abductions and Bermuda Triangle-like disturbances. "There are plenty of stories - wild and otherwise - without having to resort to aliens," said Eric Brothers, a local authority on airships who works at the University of Akron Archives. "A conjectured Japanese submarine, a love triangle and other speculative theories have emerged." But nothing definitive. One year after the incident, Cody and Adams were officially declared dead. The L-8 would fly again, though. It was repaired shortly after the crash and continued to serve the Navy as a training vessel. When the war ended, it was returned to Goodyear. The gondola was stored at Wingfoot Lake for decades until it was finally rebuilt in 1968 for the Goodyear blimp America. The cabin where Cody and Adams met their fate would be used to televise sporting events. Despite the new configuration, it couldn't quite shake the old nickname. The "ghost blimp" flew over Texas from 1969 until 1982, when the Houston-based America was retired. Today, the former L-8 cabin is back in storage at Wingfoot Lake, waiting for another opportunity to soar into the sky. Perhaps someday the ghost blimp will fly again. *** =A9 2002, Akron Beacon Journal (Akron, Ohio). Visit Akron Beacon Journal Online at http://www.ohio.com. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services. =A9 2001 fortwayne and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.fortwayne.comhttp://www.fortwayne.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 15 Indian Scientist 'Solves' Mystery Of UFOs 'That From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:30:04 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:09:51 -0400 Subject: Indian Scientist 'Solves' Mystery Of UFOs 'That Source: rediff.com India Limited http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/aug/14sharat.htm Stig *** Thursday August 15, 2002 0336 IST IIT scientist solves mystery behind 'UFO' ** A scientist at the Indian Institute of Technology-Kanpur has solved the mystery behind the "unidentified flying object" that had created a scare in large parts of Uttar Pradesh. Contrary to belief that the illuminated 'flying monster' was either an insect or a remote-controlled device, Professor Ravindra Arora discovered that it was nothing other than balls of lighting that often fall on earth during dry spells. Large parts of the state are currently facing a draught. After a few people were 'clawed' by the 'UFO', the state administration entrusted the task of unravelling the mystery to IIT. Meanwhile, locals coined their own word -- muhnochwa, which literally means something that claws the face -- to describe the strange object. According to Prof Arora, a specialist in high-voltage electricity, "dry spells increase the soil resistance while decreasing it conductivity, and in the process attract lightning balls that emit different colour lights -- mostly blue, green, yellow or red." He told rediff.com, "I have sufficient reason to believe that the burn injuries on the faces of victims were caused by nothing other than these lighting balls, which range from the size of a tennis ball to a football." "The phenomena of lightning balls is older than the life on earth and there was constant evidence of these balls over the ages... while reports on it were received from different parts of USA and Europe, the highest frequency was reported from New Zealand." "Some [scientists] say it is the plasma state of gas, while others attribute it to a slowly burning gas... radiation from long-lived meta stable state of air particles or a sphere of heated air at atmospheric pressure... an air vortex (like smoke rings) that contain luminous gases." "But in all cases people can see a ball-like object travelling sideways in the air that can produce up to 100 watts of current and emit red, blue, yellow or green lights," he said. Arora said, "The ball causes burn injuries when it comes in contact with the human skin, while it extinguishes on falling over non-living things." The scientist proposed to talk to the only man who had shot the phenomena and copied it into a CD that was sent to IIT three days back. "The man is coming from Mirzapur either today or tomorrow. So I can get a first hand account of what he saw and how everything happened." He attributed much of the panic to superstitious beliefs that often dominate the minds of the vast rural population in this part of the country. At the same time, he was confident that the menace would end with the onset of monsoon. ** =A9 2001 rediff.com India Limited. All Rights Reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:50:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:55:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:35:59 +0100 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >>regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >>the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >>than it is to try to convince them of anything. >I quite agree. However on this list it appears that the normal >way of dealing with sceptics is to start calling people >'Pelicanists' and simply avoid answering any of the points they >raise. Hello John, Although calling skeptics 'Pelicanists' has become a 'regular,' I have not seen it used to avoid answering anything. There are always some revealing, and informative dialogs taking place between List members who happen to stand on opposite sides of the ufological fence. Information that none of us would be exposed to if there was no open (and sometimes heated) dialog taking place. I do recall seeing the word 'Pelicanist' from time to time, but then I also recall seeing the word 'kooks' and worse being applied to ETHers. Some of the over-use of the term 'Pelicanist' may be the result of backlash for the years of being called 'kooks' and the like that the ETHer's have had to endure. A kind of balancing of the scales. We're all human. Stuff like that is understandable and allowed. It's basically 'good natured' and all in fun anyway. Ufologists have been expected to take all of the jibes and labels that skeptics have hung on them over the decades 'on the chin' and as good sports. Maybe it's just the skeptics turn to find out how it feels to be trivialized and marginalized by the use of such derisive expressions. (Such as 'Pelicanist' or 'kook.') Be a good sport like us 'kooks' have had to be. After all, it was a skeptics who first introduced 'pelicans' as an explanation for the 1947 Arnold sighting in the first place. Wait a minute... wasn't it _you_ that first proposed "pelicans" as an explanation for what Arnold observed over the Cascades in 1947? If so, then stop whining. It's _your_own_fault that the term 'Pelicanist' exists at all! In New Yorkese: "What-da-hey!" :) And in my best Bela Lugosi voice, "Oh,... dee irrrrony!" <lol> Regards, John Velez :) Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:50:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:01:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:35:59 +0100 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >>regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >>the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >>than it is to try to convince them of anything. >I quite agree. However on this list it appears that the normal >way of dealing with sceptics is to start calling people >'Pelicanists' and simply avoid answering any of the points they >raise. Hello John, Although calling skeptics 'Pelicanists' has become a 'regular,' I have not seen it used to avoid answering anything. There are always some revealing, and informative dialogs taking place between List members who happen to stand on opposite sides of the ufological fence. Information that none of us would be exposed to if there was no open (and sometimes heated) dialog taking place. I do recall seeing the word 'Pelicanist' from time to time, but then I also recall seeing the word 'kooks' and worse being applied to ETHers. Some of the over-use of the term 'Pelicanist' may be the result of backlash for the years of being called 'kooks' and the like that the ETHer's have had to endure. A kind of balancing of the scales. We're all human. Stuff like that is understandable and allowed. It's basically 'good natured' and all in fun anyway. Ufologists have been expected to take all of the jibes and labels that skeptics have hung on them over the decades 'on the chin' and as good sports. Maybe it's just the skeptics turn to find out how it feels to be trivialized and marginalized by the use of such derisive expressions. (Such as 'Pelicanist' or 'kook.') Be a good sport like us 'kooks' have had to be. After all, it was a skeptics who first introduced 'pelicans' as an explanation for the 1947 Arnold sighting in the first place. Wait a minute... wasn't it _you_ that first proposed "pelicans" as an explanation for what Arnold observed over the Cascades in 1947? If so, then stop whining. It's _your_own_fault that the term 'Pelicanist' exists at all! In New Yorkese: "What-da-hey!" :) And in my best Bela Lugosi voice, "Oh,... dee irrrrony!" <lol> Regards, John Velez :) Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Physical Evidence - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:00:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:03:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Velez >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:30:05 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence ><snip> >>I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >>alternative hypothesis others than the ET >>spacecraft, and which >>one you think, the alternatives, are? >A _very_ good question, and I'm glad you asked. I >hope others here will chime in as well. >I for one, while on the one hand admitting a fond hope for the >ETH, am constantly on the lookout for other possibilities. Just >because it's unexplained and not prosaic, doesn't mean it _has_ >to be little grey men. (Just because we don't know how the >universe came into existence, doesn't mean God did it). A few >other possibilities I've considered without discarding: >- Experimental military craft >- Holographic projections (I will discuss this at length in a > later post) >- Mind control experimentation >- Extradimensionals >I think that by keeping my mind open to these and a few other >possibilities, I will be less likely to subconsciously discard >data that doesn't fit any one "pet" hypothesis. Hi Jim, hi All, The minute we attempt to identify the source of the UFO phenomenon we are treading on purely speculative ground. There's nothing wrong with speculating as long as it based on bits and pieces of what we already know or that we can safely surmise based on what we know. With that as a platform from which to 'take the leap,' I have to agree with Jim that the best alternative candidates to the ETH are the four that he has listed here in his post. I would add one more (maybe) although it is a bit more 'way-out' than the ones listed by Jim: Time travellers from our own future. I think it is worthy of consideration in light of current 'headlines' in the news about human genetic experimentation and experimentation with time travel by theoretical physicists as announced in recent posts to this List. PBS ran a special not so very long ago where scientists were speculating on the future of extended space flights (missions to other stars) and one of them spoke about the possibility of creating and sending genetically altered human beings (physically engineered for the task of enduring long space voyages) to 'man' such missions. One of the details that she mentioned which really struck a chord with me was how: such genetically altered beings would probably resemble large/grown-up human fetuses. In an effort to keep these beings physically 'simple' and to significantly un-complicate their physiology and to increase their life-span for extended space flight, geneticists would have to somehow freeze/ stabilize their physical development in the (uncomplicated) fetal stages. What struck me about the comment was the fact that depictions of the Grey aliens that are reportedly gathering human genetic material like there is no tomorrow, resemble a human fetus. Think about it. Take the fact of modern human genetic tampering and add that to current time travel experiments and you can come up with a 'plausible' scenario where altered human specimens from the future are travelling back in time to in order to harvest raw, unaltered genetic material so that they can replenish and restore something important that they (we) may have lost along the way. The "Greys" may be what we become a thousand years from now. 'Far out' theory I know. But no more 'far out' than extradimensionals or that some form of clandestine, government initiated, mind control is responsible for the UFO phenom we are faced with. Good candidates Jim. I just wanted to throw my two cents in. :) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 07:59:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:08:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:27 -0300 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence <snip> >>I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >>alternative hypothesis others than the ET spacecraft, and which >>one you think, the alternatives, are? >Secondly, the question should not be what are UFOs? It should be >are any UFOs ET spacecraft?. The answer is yes. Are any UFOs >secret government vehicles, or natural phenomena or man made >reentering objects or searchlights on clouds... yes, yes, >yes, YES! I'm happy with the first question. If any UFOs are ET spacecraft, the first queston will eventually lead us to that answer. The beauty of it is, if no UFOs are ET spacecraft, the first question will lead to the correct answer faster than the second. >Because most people are not 7' tall, does not mean that no >person is 7' tall. Sorry, Stan, not an apt analogy. This could be applied to 12' tall persons as well. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:03:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:11:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Velez >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:33:51 +0000 >Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs ><snip> >>>Bottom line is it is up to us. We also shouldn't spend a great >>>deal of time trying to satisfy the skeptibunkers because they >>>never will be satisfied. >>Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >>regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >>the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >>than it is to try to convince them of anything. ><snip> >Does anyone think that, as with the U.S. Marine Corps' perpetual >search for "a few good men", a few good, mature, honest and >articulate UFO issue followers could be found who might >_specialize_ in "showing up the silliness" of the perennial >skeptibunkers? Such folks might serve the UFO research community >as a sort of "Minuteman Corps" and who would provide on-the-spot >reasoned rebuttals every time one of the skeptibunkers appears >with unfounded disinformation? >These folks would spend time between rebuttals researching the >backgrounds and activities of the skeptibunkers, and would use >their logic and verbal skills to create a set of ready- to-use, >peer-reviewed rebuttals so that such "Minutemen" would rarely be >lacking for cogent words. Hi Eleanor, We already have such a 'minuteman' group. It's called the UFO UpDates List! Now if I can figure out why my wife calls _me_ a 'minuteman' I'll be that much more ahead of the game. ;) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Secrecy News -- 08/15/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:22:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:20:45 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/15/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 77 August 15, 2002 ** JUSTICE DEPT IMPEDES PATRIOT ACT OVERSIGHT ** THE SECRECY THREAT TO SCIENCE: A CLARIFICATION ** PFIAB PLAYS SECRECY GAMES JUSTICE DEPT IMPEDES PATRIOT ACT OVERSIGHT In a challenge to congressional oversight of its activities, the Department of Justice is evading a series of probing questions concerning the government's implementation of the anti-terrorism USA PATRIOT Act that were submitted by the House Judiciary Committee. The House Committee sent a series of 50 questions sent to Attorney General Ashcroft in advance of an anticipated congressional hearing, inquiring as to how the Justice Department had used the "new investigative tools" that were granted by the USA PATRIOT Act, enacted by Congress last year in the aftermath of September 11. See the June 13 letter sent by Committee Chairman Rep. James Sensenbrenner Jr. and Ranking Member John Conyers Jr. here: http://www.house.gov/judiciary/ashcroft061302.htm In a partial reply dated July 26, Assistant Attorney General Daniel J. Bryant refused to provide certain classified information requested by the Committee concerning counterintelligence and counterterrorism surveillance activities. Although the information is clearly within the Judiciary Committee's oversight jurisdiction, Mr. Bryant wrote that it would only be provided to the House Intelligence Committee. That Committee is not conducting oversight of the USA PATRIOT Act. In its 27 page reply, Justice Department did provide answers to some of the Committee's questions. The Department reported, for example, that criminal wiretap information had been shared with the U.S. intelligence community on two occasions to date. See the Justice Department response here (1.75 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/08/doj072602.pdf The exchange was first reported by Adam Clymer in "Justice Dept. Balks at Effort to Study Antiterror Powers" in the August 15 New York Times here: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/15/politics/15PATR.html THE SECRECY THREAT TO SCIENCE: A CLARIFICATION Secrecy News yesterday cited a striking statement by Dr. Ronald M. Atlas, quoted in the New York Times, indicating that proposed security policies could imply a change in the very definition of the scientific enterprise. Contrary to our reading, however, this statement was not intended as a response to new reporting requirements facing U.S. laboratories. "The quote was misplaced in the New York Times article," Dr. Atlas, president of the American Society of Microbiologists (ASM), told Secrecy News. At issue, rather, was a more radical proposal that has been floated that calls for withholding from publication the "methods" section of certain scientific papers. This refers to the standard part of a scientific paper that describes the experimental procedure followed by the authors. Publishing such information permits replication and validation of the experimental results, which is a fundamental part of the scientific process. "What I have said is that if we were to eliminate methods sections or to take other steps to make science non-repeatable that we would be redefining science," said Dr. Atlas. "That would be a threat to science." "ASM is not willing to take that route," he said. "We have asked the National Academies to host a meeting where these issues can be discussed." PFIAB PLAYS SECRECY GAMES The President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB), which advises the President on intelligence policy, is claiming erroneously that the names of its members are a secret, to be disclosed only on a "need to know" basis. This week David Corn, Washington editor of The Nation, called PFIAB to request a list of its members. "That information is provided only on a need-to-know basis," he was told by Roosevelt Roy, PFIAB's administrative assistant. See David Corn's August 14 account in The Nation online here: http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=97 In fact, however, the names of the PFIAB membership have previously been published, Corn reported, by the Bush White House itself. Although the current PFIAB web page does not identify them (as it did during the Clinton Administration), a White House press release on October 5, 2001, named the President's nominees to the Board. See: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/10/20011005- 8.html The moral of the story is that PFIAB, like other parts of the intelligence bureaucracy, has difficulty distinguishing between truly sensitive information and the most mundane of public factoids. As a consequence, its official pronouncements on what information must be kept secret cannot be taken at face value. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:46:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:23:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Ledger >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:35:59 +0100 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >>regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >>the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >>than it is to try to convince them of anything. >I quite agree. However on this list it appears that the normal >way of dealing with sceptics is to start calling people >'Pelicanists' and simply avoid answering any of the points they >raise. Hi John, That's the old switcheroo ploy. It's the "Pelicanists" who avoid or ignore answering any arguments against their theories. Then words like "True Believer" and Ufoologists" get bandied about by the "Pelicanists". Since this thread is a waste of time, and I'm guilty of wasting both yours and mine and perhaps that of others on such a silly argument, I'll tune out. I'm just off to interview a woman who wants to know what that monstrous delta-shaped object was that glided over her house the night before last, while she was outside watching the meteor shower. I do too. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Nova Scotia Big Black Triangle From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:30:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:34:08 -0400 Subject: Nova Scotia Big Black Triangle Dear List, This came across my desk on the 14th-originally from the witness who got my name from the Alberta UFO Study group. Sighting date August 13/02 Don Ledger ----- "I was sitting on a lawn chair on my patio, facing the northeast and watching the meteor showers. Suddenly the sky started to go black... like someone was pulling a black curtain across the sky and the area of the sky I was watching just disappeared into black. I didn't understand what I was seeing! It wasn't clouds or fog as the sky had been bright and clear just seconds before. Then I started to see a shape to it-it was a triangle and it was huge! There was no noise and it seemed to glide along slowly-the pointy end was at the back and there was a tiny white light in each of the 3 corners. It came from the direction of the ocean [Atlantic of NS] and moved so very slowly north. I felt like a deer caught in the headlights! I couldn't move and I couldn't tear my eyes away from it, my whole body tingled-like when you get pins and needles... it was... very strange and a little frightening to say the least. What the heck was it? Who was it? How can things this enormous be flying around in our skies and no one seems to notice? Did I see a ufo?" I've since contacted the local airport towers and been assured that nothing was reported at Halifax [YHZ] or CFB Shearwater - the latter which was closed during the sighting period. Nothing has shown up in the local press from other possible witnesses. I'm interviewing the witness this afternoon and will post any updates.This is not the first sighting of this type in this area. In the last few years I had my attention drawn to at least three such Very Large Black Triangles. ----- Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Physical Evidence - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:01:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:37:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Ledger >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:27 -0300 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:11:28 -0700 >>>Subject: Physical Evidence [was: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] <snip> Hi Stan, Virgilio and Jim, Additionally to your posts. Don't you think, as well, it's time, in general, to drop the line of thinking that limits our way of thinking about space travel as it relates to our social mores, family ties and such? Surely we can get past thinking that space travel at approaching light speeds for example would be limited by the travelers overcoming the fact that everyone they knew, loved or gave birth to [if they even do that] would perish long before they returned. I'm guessing that any really advanced race of space travellers - possibly one or thousands of such races - would have gotten by this over millions of years. If the universe is somewhere between 12 and 15 billion years old, what are the odds of certain civilizations having been exploring space for millions of years? Home, hearth and family as we know it would likely have gone by the wayside millions of years ago for the space travelers who if they form any attachments would be short term during the journey or life term during a life [how long is an extraterrestrial life span?] of exploration. Light speed travel is a problem for those left behind or waiting for the return of the traveler - not nearly so much for the traveler as we all know. It seems to me that what bothers most people about space travel at near light speeds is that the crews would not be able to see the wife/husband and kids again depending on the length of the trip and of course the speeds. I suspect that this is not a consideration for light speed traveling races/civilizations who have been doing this for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Acceptable Evidence From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:44:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:40:00 -0400 Subject: Acceptable Evidence Hello Errol & Fellow Listerions, An observation if I may. Since my first interview of a witness to a UFO sighting back in the 70's, and subsequent study and research off and on since then, one thing has become quite clear; that is 'the type' of evidence acceptable to the layman is dependent upon the subject matter it refers to. I might add that based on my personal experiences one can include academics, scientists, and even pro UFO researchers to the List Here's an example of this phenomena: Using current events, let's say 10 people witness a child being kidnapped. The kidnapper pulls up in a vehicle and grabs said child and takes off. Within an hour, in this state, (California) there would be a APB, an AMBER alert, local, and shortly thereafter national media attention! Immediate actions are taken based on the testimony of the eye witnesses to the event. No further evidence is required. Now let's take those same ten people, and say they report a "Harrier Jump Jet" landing in a farmer's field. This being a little unusual, the ten witnesses are interviewed independently a few times to verify that their story is not a "hoax" and a search is conducted for "physical evidence." Indentations of the landing gear are found, which corroborates their story. This would be the fodder for conversation in the days to follow, but the evidence to the event would suffice, and it's a safe bet to say "no further action would be taken" for authentication of the event. Moreover, if the event actually took place one can easily imagine it being reported on "mainstream media venues." Finally, the same ten people describe a "silvery disc shaped" object landing in a farmer's field. What would be the protocol for this event? Would the witnesses' testimony be enough for the "public" to "believe" a UFO (verbatim) landed in their neighbor's field? No! Would they look for physical evidence? Of course! After finding physical evidence, would that be enough? No! Would you hear about this in "mainstream media? Not likely! In the preceding events, it's unlikely the "character" of the witnesses would be brought into question, but one can imagine the inquiries that would take place into the background of the witnesses to "this event." In addition based on the history of reported UFO events, there would be a number of people with alternative suggestions as to what the ten people "really saw." If by some miracle the event garnered media attention then "the experts" would chime in as to what the "so-called witnesses" "really saw." In example one, the sheer number of witnesses to that event was sufficient for authentication of the happening, and to provoke action. In example two, although the eyewitness testimony would probably have been enough, the "physical evidence" helps to pacify the layman. In example three, although we have the same ten people who's eyewitness testimony would suffice for the authenticity of the other two events, it would not be enough "for most people" in the event of a UFO sighting. SO, as you see by these examples, and I'm sure we can all think of "actual events" where this phenomena has occurred. The caliber of evidence acceptable to people, in all walks of life, is directly related to the "type of event" it is associated with. Regards, Frank
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:42:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:41:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Clark >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:35:59 +0100 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >I quite agree. However on this list it appears that the normal >way of dealing with sceptics is to start calling people >'Pelicanists' and simply avoid answering any of the points they >raise. Debate on the List is not always the most edifying, it is true, but I've also observed a lot of quite specific rejoinders to pelicanist arguments as well as a lot of pelicanist wing-waving. Neither side is without sin, but on occasion something approaching sainthood in this area is achieved, and some truth rises above the din. That's why I keep reading. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Flying Saucer Review 1-5 1955 For Sale From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 21:08:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:43:46 -0400 Subject: Flying Saucer Review 1-5 1955 For Sale Pilgrims, Slightly off topic I know but is anyone interested in making me a (serious) offer for the first year's run of Flying Saucer Review (issues 1,2,3,4,5) from 1955? All five in almost immaculate condition with some slight marks to the rear where they have been held in a scrapbook. These issues rarely show up for sale and this is an ideal opportunity for someone to obtain them. I have many other early issues if people are interested - email me off-list. Thanks Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Physical Evidence - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:00:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:03:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Velez >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:30:05 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence ><snip> >>I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >>alternative hypothesis others than the ET >>spacecraft, and which >>one you think, the alternatives, are? >A _very_ good question, and I'm glad you asked. I >hope others here will chime in as well. >I for one, while on the one hand admitting a fond hope for the >ETH, am constantly on the lookout for other possibilities. Just >because it's unexplained and not prosaic, doesn't mean it _has_ >to be little grey men. (Just because we don't know how the >universe came into existence, doesn't mean God did it). A few >other possibilities I've considered without discarding: >- Experimental military craft >- Holographic projections (I will discuss this at length in a > later post) >- Mind control experimentation >- Extradimensionals >I think that by keeping my mind open to these and a few other >possibilities, I will be less likely to subconsciously discard >data that doesn't fit any one "pet" hypothesis. Hi Jim, hi All, The minute we attempt to identify the source of the UFO phenomenon we are treading on purely speculative ground. There's nothing wrong with speculating as long as it based on bits and pieces of what we already know or that we can safely surmise based on what we know. With that as a platform from which to 'take the leap,' I have to agree with Jim that the best alternative candidates to the ETH are the four that he has listed here in his post. I would add one more (maybe) although it is a bit more 'way-out' than the ones listed by Jim: Time travellers from our own future. I think it is worthy of consideration in light of current 'headlines' in the news about human genetic experimentation and experimentation with time travel by theoretical physicists as announced in recent posts to this List. PBS ran a special not so very long ago where scientists were speculating on the future of extended space flights (missions to other stars) and one of them spoke about the possibility of creating and sending genetically altered human beings (physically engineered for the task of enduring long space voyages) to 'man' such missions. One of the details that she mentioned which really struck a chord with me was how: such genetically altered beings would probably resemble large/grown-up human fetuses. In an effort to keep these beings physically 'simple' and to significantly un-complicate their physiology and to increase their life-span for extended space flight, geneticists would have to somehow freeze/ stabilize their physical development in the (uncomplicated) fetal stages. What struck me about the comment was the fact that depictions of the Grey aliens that are reportedly gathering human genetic material like there is no tomorrow, resemble a human fetus. Think about it. Take the fact of modern human genetic tampering and add that to current time travel experiments and you can come up with a 'plausible' scenario where altered human specimens from the future are travelling back in time to in order to harvest raw, unaltered genetic material so that they can replenish and restore something important that they (we) may have lost along the way. The "Greys" may be what we become a thousand years from now. 'Far out' theory I know. But no more 'far out' than extradimensionals or that some form of clandestine, government initiated, mind control is responsible for the UFO phenom we are faced with. Good candidates Jim. I just wanted to throw my two cents in. :) Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Method - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:10:04 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:57:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Method - White >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:38:13 -0400 >Subject: Scientific Method [was: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up] >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:30:16 +0000 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up ><snip> >>Yet many scientists demand 100% repeatability by everyone who >>tries the experiment. That is obviously part of a general >>understanding, rightly or wrongly. >>And I'm not suggesting "tossing out" the Scientific Method, just >>stating that it needs updating. >Since this is a process, it can always be modified (within >reason) to study the subject at hand. How that is accepted >by scientists, who are also dealing with their own beliefs >and faiths, remains an issue. If you're looking for some >sort of magic change in how we examine this type of >phenomena to suddenly show "scientists" that they've been >wrong, you're going to search for a long time (IMO). >As Richard Hall pointed out, he covers this issue in The UFO >Evidence II. I listen, as I work nights, to quite a few talk shows. I've heard it said a few times by senior scientists that the younger group is eager to have at the scientific puzzles which are disregarded because they can't be repeated 100% of the time and/or dismissed with the wave of a hand by the older set. I wonder if it would benefit UFOlogy to seek out some of these new PhDs. Some university web sites list their PhD candidates' contact info. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:19:35 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:59:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White >From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:33:42 -0400 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs <snip> >Regarding debunkers, I think the idea to expose their >'kookiness' is best done in a humourous manner. Can't agree with you there. Humour in response to what debunkers put forward as a serious challenge is exactly what will turn the public off real fast. It is public pressure that will burst the secrecy dike. >Since the Skeptibunkers wont give up their "Swamp Gas" we should >at least get a good laugh at them. Better for anti-debunkers to have photos ready of what actual swamp gas manifestations look like, as very few people have ever seen such manifestations. >Since Dr. Nickell's appearance on 'Strange Days... Indeed', a >few weeks ago, it occured to me that they are, for all intents >and purposes, identical to usenet trolls and should be treated >as such. They deserve such treatment but it's not a good idea to do that in view of a public which needs to see the failure in the debunker's case. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:32:16 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:36:55 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:15 -0400 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants <snip> >My question was; how many more of these operations are >necessary? I'm trying to raise questions about what it takes to >get something properly investigated/analyzed, and then what it >takes to get that data published in some kind of professional >peer review journal. <snip> Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants removed to date? I'd be curious as to why he wouldn't do that. After all, such photos in no way impede his analysis. After all, if he is a practicing podiatrist, he will have an office, right? If he's not, then there's a question to be answered as well. A list of names and surgery dates from those who have had implants removed would make the case a little stronger in such a situation. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 02:11:25 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:40:30 -0400 Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up - Gates >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 10:49:29 EDT >Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:01:52 -0400 >>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:06:28 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: F-16 Scramble - NORAD Follow Up >>Certainly we need to have a skeptical viewpoint when dealing >>with phenomena that we cannot easily identify, but we don't >>need to have a dogmatic skeptical viewpoint. >Steve: >If you are able to show that a "dogmatic" skeptic is wrong, why >should it matter? You are demanding that the skeptics agree with >your view that one (or more) UFO incidents are TRUFOS, aren't >you? Either you have evidence acceptable to a majority of >scientists or you don't. The view of one or more skeptics >shouldn't matter, if they can be shown to be wrong. The onus is >on the proponents of TRUFOS to make your case. A rich one. "Evidence acceptable to a majority of scientists.."? Never happen in years on any number of subjects. If you personally are waiting for proveable, absolute scientific validation for a number of things you will be waiting for a long, long time and then you will find that the scientists at that future time will have a new, different, advanced theory and be telling you why all the old ones were wrong, mistaken and otherwise. Lately we have so called Scientists telling us that electrons can change charges and the speed of light is variable. You of course realize what an extraordinary claim that one is. Has CSICOP, or the skeptibunkers challenged it as junk science? Nope, zero, zip, nadda, nothing yet. We have Hubble pictures, that based upon interpretation of said pictures, it is now claimed that for sure the Universe is 11-13 billion years old. Note no so called majority of scientists came up with that one, but a small handful. Here is an extraordinary claim, done by a handful of scientists, essentially based upon photo interpretation. Take Global Warming. Somewhere I ran across statement signed by a number of atmospheric scientists telling us that Global Warming is bogus. One particular scientist, Dr Stephen Schneider who then worked for the National Center for Atmospheric Research, created one of 5 (at that time) the climate models used by the pro global warming crowd that allegedly proved global warming. In a quote from a 1989 article he said 'he and his colleagues "have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any of the doubts we have." After indicting himself as untrustworthy, Schneider stated that "each of us has to decide what the right balance might be between being effective and being honest." Talk about pseudo, junk science at work. Then you have the pro-Global Warming crowd and scientists that tell us all and every shred of evidence points to Global Warming as happening. You have the pro-Global Ice Age crowd, you have the anti-Global Ice Age crowd who claims its anything but. One wonders where CSICOP and all the skeptibunkers are. On one side if you say UFO or ET visitation you usually hear profound commentary and articles. On the other hand when the so called scientific community makes some profound, extraordinary claim based on flimsy or no evidence the same skeptibunkers either say nothing, rationalize the whole thing away as some interesting story or rolls over and tells us why any pronouncement from the "alleged" and "so called" scientific community will never be challenged by them, and should be regarded as fact, further why its all diffferent when we hear a pronouncement from the so called scientific community then something from the UFO community. <snip> >One of the distinguishing characteristics of "pseudo-science" >is that the passage of time NEVER provides increased knowledge >or understanding of the basic phenomenon. >--Philip J. Klass, Skeptics UFO Newsletter #71, September 2002 This is a rich one. By following this notion about so called pseudo-science, it just torpedoed photos from Hubble regarding the age of the universe, after all they added absolutly nothing to what has already been theorized and talked about, not to mention the fact that the so called "proof" and "evidence" is essentially in the form of photo interpretation, and no they have not gone back and reshot the photos from Hubble a second or theird time to see if it is the same. It also torpedoes many skeptibunker explainations of UFOs because over the passage of time both the skeptibunkers and explainations have contributed zero, zip, nadda to our understanding or any increased knowledge. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Physical Evidence - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:31:24 UT Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:43:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Hamilton >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 07:59:09 -0700 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:27 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence ><snip> >>>I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >>>alternative hypothesis others than the ET spacecraft, and which >>>one you think, the alternatives, are? >>Secondly, the question should not be what are UFOs? It should be >>are any UFOs ET spacecraft?. The answer is yes. Are any UFOs >>secret government vehicles, or natural phenomena or man made >>reentering objects or searchlights on clouds... yes, yes, >>yes, YES! My question has been and still is 'by what criteria, measurement, or evidence is a particular UFO judged to be an ET spacecraft? What about CE-3 cases where a UFO lands and non-human occupants emerge? Could these non-human occupants be other than ET? What about UFOs seen in space passing near the moon or somewhere outside of the earth's atmosphere? If a criteria can be decided on, and a compendium of cases seen to match that criteria, do we have a better than 90% probability that the best explanation is extraterrestrial? Or, do we have to wait for the SETI/SETV scientists to weigh in? >I'm happy with the first question. If any UFOs are ET >spacecraft, the first queston will eventually lead us to that >answer. The beauty of it is, if no UFOs are ET spacecraft, the >first question will lead to the correct answer faster than the >second. >>Because most people are not 7' tall, does not mean that no >>person is 7' tall. >Sorry, Stan, not an apt analogy. This could be applied to 12' >tall persons as well. Maybe it is an apt analogy as it becomes more unlikely that 12' tall humans can be found. Maybe 99.99% improbable as their are biomechanical limitations to growth. -Bill Hamilton (new email address used as space.com will cease providing email service)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:30:43 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:48:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - White >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:03:13 -0400 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:33:51 +0000 >>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs <snip> >>These folks would spend time between rebuttals researching the >>backgrounds and activities of the skeptibunkers, and would use >>their logic and verbal skills to create a set of ready- to-use, >>peer-reviewed rebuttals so that such "Minutemen" would rarely be >>lacking for cogent words. >Hi Eleanor, >We already have such a 'minuteman' group. >It's called the UFO UpDates List! >Now if I can figure out why my wife calls _me_ a 'minuteman' >I'll be that much more ahead of the game. ;) Researchers, and in your case abductees and supporters, have done an excellent job, but what I'm thinking about are people who are outside the researcher/experiencer community so as to correct the impression that insiders are rebutting debunker claims out of self interest. Further, that such non-researcher/experiencers would actively investigate and almost 'shadow' (within limits of law and morality) the debunkers as their primary function within the UFO community. Kind of like the political parties in opposition who appoint 'critics' for each government department or ministry. These 'critics' follow every move the government in power makes within their specialty, and present well- researched opposition within their specialty. UFO 'Minutemen' could do more than simply react to debunker noise following UFO news or documentaries, they could write full-fledged articles on the career of each debunker, listing their accomplishments and positions taken. Kind of like the debunker's 'voting record'. As long as these articles stick to facts and avoid personal slurs, such articles should be safe to publish. Researchers could then refer to these articles each time a debunker makes a faulty public statement. These articles would list past statements along with explanations as to how the debunkers' past statements were illogical. Posting these articles on the web would give UFO researchers/experiencers world wide a powerful base of support. With the graying of society, I would estimate that there are many retirees (or semi-retirees) who have both the worldly experience, time, and income to carry out this function very well. I would think that a small corps of 'UFO Ralph Nader' types, focussing entirely on those who make a career out of debunking, could hasten the day when the general public begins to seriously demand the truth from the governments of the world on the UFO issue. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 07:45:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:51:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Speiser >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:01:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:27 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence <snip> >Light speed travel is a problem for those left behind or waiting >for the return of the traveler - not nearly so much for the >traveler as we all know. >It seems to me that what bothers most people about space travel >at near light speeds is that the crews would not be able to see >the wife/husband and kids again depending on the length of the >trip and of course the speeds. >I suspect that this is not a consideration for light speed >traveling races/civilizations who have been doing this for >hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. We also cannot dismiss the possibility that they have some how gotten around the time-dilation effect. In fact I think that's more likely than simple light speed travel. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Secrecy News -- 08/16/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:22:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:52:53 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/16/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 78 August 16, 2002 ** MORE INTELLIGENCE IMAGERY TO BE DECLASSIFIED ** FRUS VOLUME ON GREECE FINALLY PUBLISHED ** PALESTINIAN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES ** DISCLOSURE OF DETAINEE NAMES STAYED ** MEREDITH GARDNER, CODE BREAKER MORE INTELLIGENCE IMAGERY TO BE DECLASSIFIED Taking most observers by surprise, the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA) has announced the impending declassification of historical intelligence satellite imagery from the KH-7 and KH-9 spy satellites. NIMA will sponsor a conference on Historical Imagery Declassification on September 20. Given the Bush Administration's well-established predisposition in favor of official secrecy, the new declassification initiative was unexpected, said Tim Brown of GlobalSecurity.org, but "They've gone ahead and done the right thing." "The high-resolution KH-7 surveillance imaging satellite, flown from July 1963 to June 1967, monitored key targets such as ICBM complexes, radar systems, and hot spots around the globe," according to the NIMA conference fact sheet. "The lower-resolution KH-9 mapping system was devoted exclusively to gathering information for mapmaking, and collected imagery from March 1973 to October 1980." Imagery from both systems will declassified, but probably on a fairly selective basis. The releases are unlikely to include images of NATO allies or of Israel, speculated Tim Brown of GlobalSecurity.org. His policy research organization has made intensive use of previously declassified imagery from the CORONA satellite program, as well as current commercial high-resolution satellite imagery. CORONA imagery was declassified pursuant to President Clinton's 1995 executive order 12951, which also called for declassification of certain follow-on imagery systems. Until now, that directive has gone unfulfilled. See the NIMA fact sheet on the September 20 Historical Imagery Declassification conference, along with links to the conference agenda and registration information, here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/08/hidconf.html FRUS VOLUME ON GREECE FINALLY PUBLISHED The controversial volume of historical documents on U.S. policy towards Greece, Turkey and Cyprus in the 1960s whose publication was deferred for two years under pressure from the Central Intelligence Agency is now publicly available. The full text of "Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS) 1964-1968, Volume XVI, Cyprus; Greece; Turkey" is posted on the State Department web site here: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/xvi/ Among several points of potential political sensitivity, the FRUS volume documents U.S. intervention in Greece's internal politics. The volume underwent declassification from 1993 to 1999 and then, once printed, sat in storage for a couple of years when CIA objected to its publication. (See Secrecy News, Issue No. 73). The State Department this week also published another meaty FRUS volume on National Security Policy, 1964-1968. "The main topics covered in this volume are the nuclear capabilities and intentions of the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China, the status of U.S. nuclear preparedness, issues of chemical and biological weapons, and contingency plans in case of attack on the United States," the volume's summary states. See "Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964-1968, Volume X, National Security Policy" here: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/x/ PALESTINIAN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES The Palestinian Authority encompasses a disproportionately large number of intelligence and security services with diverse functions and authorities. Palestinian officials are laboring to trim this overgrowth and to normalize their security apparatus. Rare insight into the current status and evolution of the Palestinian intelligence system is provided in a recent interview with the Palestinian intelligence chief, Brigadier General Tawfiq al-Tirawi. Of necessity, Palestinian intelligence will be limited in scope and directed at immediate security objectives. "Our agency is still nascent and its objectives are modest," said Gen. Al-Tirawi. "Do not expect us to spy on France, for example." See the interview, published in the London newspaper Al-Sharq al-Awsat on August 14 and translated by the CIA's Foreign Broadcast Information Service, here: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/palestine/tirawi.html DISCLOSURE OF DETAINEE NAMES STAYED DC District Court Judge Gladys Kessler yesterday granted a government motion for a stay of her August 2 decision that required disclosure of most of the names of those individuals detained by government in connection with the September 11 attacks. The stay enables the government to appeal the decision to a higher court, a procedure that will likely take several months. The latest decision is available here: http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/01-2500a.pdf MEREDITH GARDNER, CODE BREAKER Meredith Knox Gardner, the National Security Agency linguist and cryptanalyst who led the effort to decrypt KGB cable traffic on Soviet espionage that became known as VENONA died August 9. He is memorialized in this Washington Post obituary: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19880-2002Aug14.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:52:59 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:08:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Hall >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:19:35 +0000 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: James Alexander <james-m-alexander@rogers.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:33:42 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Regarding debunkers, I think the idea to expose their >>'kookiness' is best done in a humourous manner. >Can't agree with you there. Humour in response to what >debunkers put forward as a serious challenge is exactly >what will turn the public off real fast. It is public pressure >that will burst the secrecy dike. >>Since the Skeptibunkers wont give up their "Swamp Gas" we should >>at least get a good laugh at them. >Better for anti-debunkers to have photos ready of what >actual swamp gas manifestations look like, as very few >people have ever seen such manifestations. >>Since Dr. Nickell's appearance on 'Strange Days... Indeed', a >>few weeks ago, it occured to me that they are, for all intents >>and purposes, identical to usenet trolls and should be treated >>as such. >They deserve such treatment but it's not a good idea to do that >in view of a public which needs to see the failure in the >debunker's case. James & Eleanor, As the old commercial used to have it, "I feel very strongly both ways." Sometimes it is appropriate and helpful to poke fun at what we deem to be silly (or laughable) arguments, but the underlying issue is a serious one and exposure of fallacious arguments is important. John Rimmer, for example, has shown a sense of humor at times and that helps to breed a friendly debate. But then John, again for example, makes outrageous statements about lack of proof of dozens of witnesses to Trindade Isle, ignores our strong rebuttals, then accuses us of not responding to his arguments! Bob Young argues by fiat that Non potest, ergo non est (It can't be, therefore it isn't). Witnesses couldn't have seen what they said they saw, since there is no such thing as a true UFO. His attempts to convert Ravenna into Venus and the Ohio helicopter case into a fireball border on the hilarious, except that his underlying logic and reasoning need to be exposed for what they are: Dogmatic rejection of carefully vetted witness testimony. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Nova Scotia Big Black Triangle - More Info From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:25:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:15:27 -0400 Subject: Nova Scotia Big Black Triangle - More Info Hi Errol, Here's the update to that Triangle sighting of early morning of the 13th. It's long. Best, Don ********* Dear List, This came across my desk on the 14th-originally from the witness who got my name from the Alberta UFO Study group. Sighting date August 13/02 Don Ledger ----- "I was sitting on a lawn chair on my patio, facing the northeast and watching the meteor showers. Suddenly the sky started to go black... like someone was pulling a black curtain across the sky and the area of the sky I was watching just disappeared into black. I didn't understand what I was seeing! It wasn't clouds or fog as the sky had been bright and clear just seconds before. Then I started to see a shape to it-it was a triangle and it was huge! There was no noise and it seemed to glide along slowly-the pointy end was at the back and there was a tiny white light in each of the 3 corners. It came from the direction of the ocean [Atlantic of NS] and moved so very slowly north. I felt like a deer caught in the headlights! I couldn't move and I couldn't tear my eyes away from it, my whole body tingled-like when you get pins and needles... it was... very strange and a little frightening to say the least. What the heck was it? Who was it? How can things this enormous be flying around in our skies and no one seems to notice? Did I see a ufo?" I visited the witness, a woman living in Cow Bay, Nova Scotia. Cow Bay is situated to the east on the edge Dartmouth,NS - and a couple of miles east of CFB Shearwater and 15 miles south of Halifax International. It's the next bay east of the mouth of Halifax Harbour. Nancy [not her real name] is an amateur astronomer [she keeps a small refractor type telescope on a tripod next to the patio doors] who makes a living as an independent researcher for business. She is also an avid yachts person, familiar with marine radio, radar, Loran, GPS, charts and of course the sky as a navigation tool. She is very knowledgeable about the night sky, and what should and should not be flying over her home. Nancy was sitting outside of her home on the patio watching the night sky for meteors and had been rewarded on several occasions. She was accompanied by her dog, a large but very old [and gentle] Rotweiler with arthritis. It was between 2:15 and 2:20 am on the morning of August 13. The temperature was 24 C/ 75F . No wind.Clear skies, no cloud cover.No fog. Air stable temperatures cooled progressively from 3-6-9,000 feet and above- no chance of temp inversion. Nancy advised me that what drew her attention to this huge craft was the sudden cessation of a large meteor trail she was observing. The meteor appeared out of the Ursa Major area to the northeast, was crossing the sky in the usual manner to the south-southwest when it seemed not to peter out but to go behind something. This was when she noted the blind like effect of something blanking out what was -as she described-a gorgeous well defined and deep field sky proceeding from the southwest to the northeast. it was coming in off the Atlantic. The air was very clear, the Milky Way was well defined. She described the effect as like a blind being drawn across the sky. Being right on the coast, she was familiar with fog rolling in or clouds crossing the night sky, but this was decidedly different. She watched as this effect as it continued northeast, slowly blocking out more of the sky over the 80 foot tree-ringed circle surrounding her home. At this point she could not define a shape until she swung around to look in the opposite direction and noted a a well defined point where the edges came together against the star field. It was then she realized that she was looking at a huge triangle crossing over her house. At each of the three points,on their very tips was a tiny little white light that seemed to her ineffectual as a lighting scheme on such a huge object. Otherwise the bottom of the thing was the absolute absence of light-totally black-and sit was soundless. She observed that everything suddenly became very still as the object passed over. All of the usual night noises ceased. The small family of pheasants that lived on the other side of her back fence which were always rustling around at night became still. The crickets stooped chirping. She began to feel prickly all over but associated that with the goose bump effect one gets when they are thrilled. She said she was in awe of this thing but suddenly had an ominous feeling, like this was the end of an era. The object finally slid away from her area to the northeast. She was thunderstruck. She had been weaning herself of cigarettes for several months and was down to a pack a week, however she went inside and sat down a smoked five in a row. About 20 minutes after the event she wondered if this was what they called a UFO. I asked if she had ever seen a UFO before. She said no. But several months ago she had been watching the sky when a meteor came across the sky from the nor'northwest and then suddenly turned sharply to the east and streaked over the horizon. She saw the same thing a couple of weeks later in a slightly different spot in the sky. I mentioned to her that there were some who believed that this was an optical illusion caused by the meteor exploding or its sudden disappearance. She said she'd been watching the sky since she was a kid [she's 44 now] and she'd never seen that before and had witnessed thousands of meteor events. Meteors she stated, don't make right angled turns. I asked if she could guess at an altitude and she assumed perhaps 2,000 feet however noted she had no term of reference for that. She noted that the small private aircraft flying out of Shearwater crossing just south of her house were at about 2,000 feet when inbound for Shearwater. She is correct in that assumption. If you are on final for runway 29/11, or a right- hand base leg for rwy 16 at Shearwater you would be at approx. 2,000 feet over Cow Bay. I've been there myself. Before leaving I mentioned that according to one amateur astronomer other astronomers and amateur astronomers don't see UFOs. She laughed, "Well this one did." I've since contacted the local airport towers and been assured that nothing was reported at Halifax [YHZ] or CFB Shearwater-the latter which was closed during the sighting period. Nothing has shown up in the local press from other possible witnesses. This is not the first sighting of this type in this area. In the last few years I had my attention drawn to at least three such Very Large Black Triangles.One such case turned up on the Art Bell show reported by a couple of police officers two Summers ago. I'll contact the press and see if I can flush out any other corroborating witnesses to this event. Note: CFB Shearwater is a shadow of its former self. The long runway has been closed and the only military traffic going in and out of there is the Sea King helicopter. The flying club is still going strong. The base is surrounded on three sides by the city of Dartmouth. I mention this because I want to cut off any speculation that this was some secret aircraft flying into that base. The very idea is nonsensical. The course of this craft would have taken it right over the twin cities of Dartmouth and Halifax. Finally a little simple math. The clearing was about 80 feet in diameter, the tree height averages 40 feet. If the object "was" at 2,000 feet that would have made it about 800 feet on a side. Nancy stated that it was football fields in length. Also: I asked about any ill affects. She said she had a really bad headache the next day that wouldn't go away and the dog was throwing up but since the temperatures soared to 41C/105 F that day she couldn't be sure if that wasn't the cause. I assume that the temperature that day was the cause. Many people were suffering from ill effects. Nancy struck me as being very levelheaded, a discriminating witness with a good eye for detail. She seemed genuinely puzzled by what she had seen. She ruled out any natural phenomena as an explanation for what she saw. I'd appreciate any information that might have come from this area for the same date and times ----- Best Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Physical Evidence - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:44:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:28:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Ledger >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 07:45:22 -0700 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:01:30 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:27 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence ><snip> >>Light speed travel is a problem for those left behind or waiting >>for the return of the traveler - not nearly so much for the >>traveler as we all know. >>It seems to me that what bothers most people about space travel >>at near light speeds is that the crews would not be able to see >>the wife/husband and kids again depending on the length of the >>trip and of course the speeds. >>I suspect that this is not a consideration for light speed >>traveling races/civilizations who have been doing this for >>hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. >We also cannot dismiss the possibility that they have some how >gotten around the time-dilation effect. In fact I think that's >more likely than simple light speed travel. Hi Jim, Agreed. When you are dealing with a proposed race or civilization that might have had deep space travel for tens of thousands of years [if not hundreds of thousands], it's not much of a stretch to suppose they know the shortcuts. Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 364 From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@libero.it> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 16:28:57 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:34:55 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 364 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 364 - 8 AUGUST 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - Hessdalen 2002: End of the First Phase - The New CISU Journal Is Out HESSDALEN 2002: END OF THE FIRST PHASE With the return in Italy of Flavio Gori and Matteo Leone, the initial phase of the 2002 mission organized in Norway by the Italian Committee for Project Hessdalen (CIPH) concluded today. In the meantime, the second group has arrived, composed of CNR researchers (Simona Righini, astronomer; Andrea Oriali and Marco Poloni, electronic engineers; Nicoletta Laschi, computer technician; and Stelio Montebugnoli, electronic engineer and manager of the Radioastronomy Station in Medicina), which is entrusted with the instrumentation section of the mission. On a separate side: Massimo Teodorani, astrophysicist (CNR), and Gloria Nobili, physicist, will begin their research contributing to the collection of data on the biological effects of luminous phenomena. In addition to activity dealing with instrumentation, an interesting aspect of this first week of the mission was the continuing occurrence of a great number of sightings of strange lights by the residents of the area, also in the last 15 years, that nobody has yet bothered to gather in a systematic way. Some promising leads have also been made towards this end. On Saturday 10 August, at the brand-new UFO museum in Holtalen, a seminar by Project Hessdalen dedicated to future research prospects will be held. It is interesting to note that, out of nine papers, a good five will be presented by Italian researchers, a testimony to the increasingly important role had by the Italian Committee in the activity of Project Hessdalen. [Communication by Renzo Cabassi; www.hessdalen.org/news/Workshop-20020810.shtml] THE NEW CISU JOURNAL IS OUT Issue 24 of "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica" (UFO Information Magazine) has finally been published, replete in its new format as a quarterly periodical from the Italian Center for Ufological Studies. Among the featured articles: the Italian missions in Hessdalen from the perspective of a new Ufology for the 21st Century; a commentary on the return of "ET" to the cinema, twenty years after its initial showing; the true story of the photo of the "little Martian"; an overview on seismic lights; the 2001 update of the catalog of sightings by Italian pilots; the study project concerning the physical effects of close encounters; a histographic retrospective on the visits to Italy by Adamski, Williamson and Leslie during the 1950's; controversies over French skepticism; the sightings caused by the Iridium satellites; in addition to columns on news, discussions, case histories and news. The CISU magazine, which has grown from 40 to 48 pages, is distributed in Feltrinelli bookstores and over a small network of other bookstores and newsstands, sells for 4 Euro, and may be obtained via subscription (4 issues for 16 Euro) or free to members of the Italian Center for UFO Studies. [Communication by Gian Paolo Grassino; www.arpnet.it/ufo/riu24.htm] Collaborators on this edition were: Renzo Cabassi, Gian Paolo Grassino. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:39:25 UT Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:36:33 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:32:16 +0000 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:15 -0400 >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants ><snip> >>My question was; how many more of these operations are >>necessary? I'm trying to raise questions about what it takes to >>get something properly investigated/analyzed, and then what it >>takes to get that data published in some kind of professional >>peer review journal. > ><snip> >Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >removed to date? I know Dr. Leir and have seen not only photos but videos of the implants and removals, but he has not presented substantial evidence from scientific analysis of these objects to show that they are both anamolous and non-terrestrial. >I'd be curious as to why he wouldn't do that. After all, such >photos in no way impede his analysis. >After all, if he is a practicing podiatrist, he will have an >office, right? If he's not, then there's a question to be >answered as well. He does have an office in Thousand Oaks which I have been to, but I am not sure he is practicing anymore. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:46:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:38:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Rimmer >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:50:21 -0400 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:35:59 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:15:09 -0400 >>>Subject: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>>Dick Hall's response (in another thread) was the best one >>>regarding debunkers. He said it's much more fruitful to show up >>>the silliness (flaws in logic and reasoning) of their arguments >>>than it is to try to convince them of anything. >>I quite agree. However on this list it appears that the normal >>way of dealing with sceptics is to start calling people >>'Pelicanists' and simply avoid answering any of the points they >>raise. >Hello John, >Although calling skeptics 'Pelicanists' has become a 'regular,' >I have not seen it used to avoid answering anything. There are >always some revealing, and informative dialogs taking place >between List members who happen to stand on opposite sides of >the ufological fence. Information that none of us would be >exposed to if there was no open (and sometimes heated) dialog >taking place. I do recall seeing the word 'Pelicanist' from time >to time, but then I also recall seeing the word 'kooks' and >worse being applied to ETHers. >Some of the over-use of the term 'Pelicanist' may be the result >of backlash for the years of being called 'kooks' and the like >that the ETHer's have had to endure. A kind of balancing of the >scales. We're all human. Stuff like that is understandable and >allowed. It's basically 'good natured' and all in fun anyway. >Ufologists have been expected to take all of the jibes and >labels that skeptics have hung on them over the decades 'on the >chin' and as good sports. Maybe it's just the skeptics turn to >find out how it feels to be trivialized and marginalized by the >use of such derisive expressions. (Such as 'Pelicanist' or >'kook.') >Be a good sport like us 'kooks' have had to be. After all, it >was a skeptics who first introduced 'pelicans' as an explanation >for the 1947 Arnold sighting in the first place. I don't think that the "kooks" have ever been short of insulting terms themsleves. Quite apart from turning the perfectly respectable word sc(k)eptic into a term of abuse, they've also tried "debunker" (presumably beliving that bunk is a good thing and anyone who tries to get rid of it by definition a bad person) and then coined the ridiculous "skeptibunker". The latter, and "pelicanist" have definitley been used on this list as a way of avoiding debate - by simply defining an argument as "pelicanist" it avoids the necessity of having to reply to it. I have no intention of revisiting the long-winded Trindade Island debate - at least not until some new information is available - but constantly questions I asked were denounced as "pelicanist" and carefully ignored. I'm not saying that sc(k)eptics don't also avoid awkward question, but when they do they should be (and certainly on this list) are challenged. So, we agree to drop silly terms like "pelicanist" and "skeptibunker", I promise I'll never call anyone on this list a "kook". (Can't think that i ever have, actually, but there you are.) >Wait a minute... wasn't it _you_ that first proposed "pelicans" >as an explanation for what Arnold observed over the Cascades in >1947? If so, then stop whining. It's _your_own_fault that the >term 'Pelicanist' exists at all! Err ... No! [Uh, believe it was James Easton? --ebk] -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Re: Acceptable Evidence - Christensen From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:40:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:40:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Acceptable Evidence - Christensen >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 10:44:55 -0700 >Subject: Acceptable Evidence <snip> >SO, as you see by these examples, and I'm sure we can all think >of "actual events" where this phenomena has occurred. The >caliber of evidence acceptable to people, in all walks of life, >is directly related to the "type of event" it is associated >with. Your comparative analysis of your three examples, while instructive in some respects, ignores one extremely important -- definitive -- overriding point: In example #1, an actual child is missing. The child was known to exist, and was seen being kidnapped. The immediate flurry of action following your event #1, then is not wholly due to the fact that it is simply a "different type of event" than a witnessed landing of a jump jet or a ufo. It is due to the very real fact that when a real, verifiable, known-to-exist child is kidnapped, every second she remains missing makes the outcome more likely to be grim. In your examples #2 and #3, no lives are at stake, and there is no pressing need to investigate. The difference among your examples has less to do with the fact that they were witnessed by multiple observers, or with the "type of event" represented, than with the fact that the stakes in #1 are so much higher than in #2 or #3, and that the failure to mount an immediate investigation might well mean allowing an avoidable tragedy to occur. Purrrrs... wac
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Two New Items On Trindade Case From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:08:49 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:43:34 -0400 Subject: Two New Items On Trindade Case Someone asked me a question about the 1958 Trindade Isle, Brazil, photo case and I dug through my files some more. I found two new itmes relevant to John Rimmer's non-witness and hoax suggestions: (1) A clipping from the Los Angeles Times, Feb. 26, 1958, datelined Rio de Janeiro, Feb. 25 (UP) [United Press; later United Press International] - "The Brazilian Navy vouched today for the authenticity of the photographs [of the UFO] taken in the presence of a large number of seamen while the ship was cruising off Trindade Island... Navy Minister Adm. Antonio Alves Camara... also vouched personally for the authenticity of the pictures." (2) After the U.S. Air Force issued a statement in July 1960 saying that the photos had been determined by a U.S. Navy analysis to be a hoax, both Coral Lorenzen and I wrote letters questioning the basis for this determination. In my files I found a letter from a senior officer in the Office of Naval Intelligence to Coral dated 10 Oct 1960 stating that the U.S. Navy had made no evaluation of any UFO information in Brazil.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Have We Lost Our Curiosity? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:52:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:52:13 -0400 Subject: Have We Lost Our Curiosity? http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA25559A.htm Jul 30, 1:55 PM Have we lost our curiosity? Billy Cox People Just what Thornton Page meant in a September 1966 letter to Fred Durant isn't exactly clear. Durant says he doesn't remember the correspondence, which is understandable after 36 years. Page's note was retrieved from the Smithsonian Institution several years ago, where Durant once served as the assistant director for astronautics. In 1953, Page, an astrophysicist, and Durant, a Navy test pilot, participated in a CIA-sponsored study of unidentified flying objects that became known as the Robertson Panel. The Robertson Panel was a direct response to an avalanche of public sightings of UFOs -- 500 in July 1952, alone -- that culminated in some spectacular nocturnal encounters above Washington, D.C., on the weekends of July 19 and July 26. Jet fighters were scrambled in a futile game of cat-and-mouse. The incidents generated a 90- minute press conference at the Pentagon, the longest exchange between media and brass since the end of WWII. The official explanation from the Civil Aeronautics Administration: the objects that provoked visual and radar contacts were byproducts of temperature inversions. Under that scenario, warm air layers trapped above cool air can bend radar waves downward, which then mirror ground objects and trick radar scopes into reading them as airborne anomalies. Airborne mirages, added the CAA, are also byproducts of those conditions. After reviewing some 50 cases of UFOs prowling American skies during the Cold War and the McCarthy hearings, the Robertson Panel's clear priority was national security. "The continued emphasis on the reporting of (UFOs) does, in these perilous times, result in a threat to the orderly function of the protective organs of the body politic." Recommendation: "National security agencies . . . take immediate steps to strip the UFOs of the special status they have been given." In 1966, several months after a Walter Cronkite-narrated "CBS Reports" documentary on UFOs reassured American viewers that the phenomenon was largely the product of hoaxes or self-delusion, Page wrote a letter to Durant, who'd been a Robertson Panel secretary. He told Durant how he'd "helped organize the CBS TV show around the Robertson Panel conclusions." Today, from his home in Raleigh, N.C., the 85-year-old Durant insists he "wouldn't change a word" in the Robertson report. "You have to remember the times," says Durant. "These UFO reports were clogging the phone lines, and we had absolutely no idea of what the Soviet interest in this was. If this phenomenon could be controlled, they could have used it for psychological warfare." Although a 1969 study by the Air Force Environmental Technical Applications Center refuted the CAA's temperature inversion sightings explanation ("UFOs would need temperatures of several thousand (degrees) Kelvin in order to cause the mirages attributed to them"), Durant contends the mirage scenario is viable because he's seen automobile headlights reflected into the sky at night. As for radar data, "You get enormous speed readings on oscilloscopes when two radar systems are looking at each other," says the former operative for the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence. "They're called fast tracks, and they'll produce readings that'll give you false alerts on objects that seem to be reaching speeds of 1,000 miles an hour or more." So maybe that's what happened again over Washington early Friday morning, nearly to the exact hour of the flap that engaged the CIA 50 years ago. "It was this object, this light blue object, traveling at a phenomenal rate of speed," suburban witness Renny Rogers told the Washington Post. "This Air Force jet was right behind it, chasing it, but the object was just leaving him in the dust." According to the report, after radar detected an unresponsive bogey entering restricted air space around 1 a.m., the North American Aerospace Defense Command was alerted, and two loaded F-16s screamed out of Andrews Air Force Base to intercept. Only, when the jets got airborne, the object disappeared. Said NORAD's Maj. Douglas Martin: "Everything was fine in the sky, so they returned home." Added Lt. Col Steve Chase with the Air National Guard 113th Air Wing, "It was a routine launch." Well, sure. Nothing unusual in this day and age about a low- flying object closing in on the nation's capital, refusing to identify itself, then out-maneuvering an F-16. No media demand for a press conference to hear about temperature inversions, either. Actually, aside from the BBC and a blurb in the Post, no media coverage, period. "There's just so much crap in this field, all these conspiracy theories," says Durant. "You've got another generation coming up that's increasingly ignorant of the facts. I guess it's fun to fantasize." Downright contagious, actually.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 'I Make Crop Circles' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:57:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:57:21 -0400 Subject: 'I Make Crop Circles' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2191565.stm Friday, 16 August, 2002, 13:15 GMT 14:15 UK 'I make crop circles' by John Lundberg 'Tis the season for crop circles. And the Mel Gibson film, Signs, has renewed interest in who - or what - might make these mysterious markings. Here, controversial crop circle maker John Lundberg tells of his nights in the Wiltshire fields. I don't regard myself as a hoaxer - I'm not interested in rug- pulling anybody. Yet the assumption is that if I make a crop circle, it must be because I want to undermine the beliefs of people who think they are not man-made. But the myths and folklore that build up around crop circles are what fascinate me. And we've always tried to have as good a relationship as possible with the crop circle research community, even though we're at odds with it. It's like with politics - there are the moderates who are happy to coexist with us and the extremists who won't even admit that one crop circle might be manmade. They're the ones who have really demonised us. They regard us as heretics. So some really weird conspiracy theories have grown up around us. The most amusing is that we're with the government or the secret service, that we're disinformation agents who get sent out to cover up genuine circles made perhaps by extraterrestrials, time travellers, ley lines, whatever. My art collective - myself, Rod Dickinson and Will Russell - get thousands of abusive e-mails and phone calls. We've had attacks on our property, and one of my team had bricks thrown at him. But at least this is not America - people don't carry guns here. Following long tradition My group, Circlemakers, now describe what we do as art practice but at first it was just curiosity. When in 1991 Doug Bower and Dave Chorley admitted that they had been making circles for the past 13 years, interest plummeted. We wanted to crank it up again by making formations so huge and so complex that people would once again start asking the question: 'Is it possible that these things are manmade?' As we're all based in London, we spend a lot of money on petrol and a lot of money driving up and down the M4 to Wiltshire. The season runs from April, when the first crop is oil seed rape. In June it's barley and by mid-July it's wheat. That's the best crop to work in, that's when the most spectacular circles appear. Because each stem is upright, you can get pin sharp clarity. We used to design the circles on paper, but because the formations have got so big, it's easier to use a computer. It's all very low-tech once we get into the field. We use surveyor's tape measure and a stalk stomper, which is basically a plank of wood. To make a circle, one person stands in the middle as a pivot and another holds the end of the tape and walks around them. Crop circles are treated as legitimate tourist attractions in Wiltshire. One made in 1996 got more visitors than Stonehenge and the farmer grossed about =A330,000 in four weeks by charging a pound a person. Assuming a formation isn't heavily visited, the farmer will be able to lower the blades on his combine and harvest the flattened crop away. Unexplained experiences It sounds slightly embarrassing, but I have had a UFO sighting while making circles in Wiltshire. It was a black cigar shape with very fast strobing lights. It appeared on the horizon and slowly arced over us, completely silent. It was a classic UFO sighting in that we didn't know what it was. I've seen balls of cracking light at the edge of the field, which is slightly unnerving. But what I see most often is flashes of light, as if someone's holding a flashbulb in front of my eyes. Twice this has happened while we've had journalists with us. One, from The Face, was very sceptical of that side of it. About halfway through making the formation, he came rushing up to me shouting: 'Did you see that flash of light?' He's a believer now.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 16 Would ET Vote? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:22:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:22:42 -0400 Subject: Would ET Vote? http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_vote_020815.html Would ET Vote? The Likelihood of Extraterrestrial Democracy By Douglas Vakoch Special to SPACE.com posted: 07:00 am ET 15 August 2002 Although it's still two years until the next presidential election, we're already seeing signs of politicians positioning themselves for the Oval Office. If extraterrestrials some day pick up our radio and television broadcasts, hearing the latest news of political jockeying, will they be flabbergasted by our methods of choosing a leader? Would the idea of one vote per person seem hopelessly quaint to an advanced alien nation? Maybe not. If psychologist Albert Harrison is correct, ETs might feel very much at home with the notion of going to the ballot box. Or at least they would be familiar with the process of having input into the control of their lives, even if it doesn't take the form of presidential elections. According to Harrison, a Professor of Psychology at the University of California at Davis, if we detect a signal from advanced extraterrestrials, there's a good chance that the basic principles of democracy play a role in their society. "When we intercept a transmission from an ancient society," Harrison argues, "that society is likely to have achieved its great age not through an autocratic, belligerent government, but through a democratic government whose emphasis on bargaining, negotiation, and peaceful solutions to internal problems are brought to bear in dealing with other democracies." In Harrison's view it's possible that "democracy involves a set of functional principles that will work for other intelligent species in other places and at other times." Take Me to Your Dictator? By a similar line of reasoning, extraterrestrial dictators may be very rare. Autocratic governments on Earth face an uphill battle, Harrison says, and the same challenges may limit the life expectancies of fascist regimes around distant stars. For example, autocracies tend to ignore the desires of their citizens. The resulting disconnect between leader and followers can become increasingly extreme, resulting in discontent of the masses. By contrast, democratic processes incorporate input from a wide range of individuals, yielding a more responsive and thus stable form of government. Harrison suggests that this lesson would not be lost on extraterrestrials. "The greater the number of democracies in a galaxy," he says, "the greater the zone of galactic peace." Furthermore, he argues that if a federation of extraterrestrial civilizations exists, as some astronomers have suggested, its policy toward newly emerging civilizations such as ours might be guided by the values of democracy. "Members of the 'Galactic Club,'" says Harrison, "should do everything they can to promote the evolution of stable democracies, because, by so doing, they increase their zone of peace." Ideals of universal peace, however, may come no more naturally to extraterrestrials than they do to humans. Harrison acknowledges that aggression can be found across a range of terrestrial species, and it may well evolve on other worlds too. But he points out that Darwin's notions of "survival of the fittest" don't directly translate from biology to culture: "belligerent posturing and aggressive behaviors that make an animal fit do not necessarily make a society fit." Those extraterrestrial societies that find themselves perpetually at war may not last long enough to make contact with other civilizations. But suppose they do manage to survive. Could they maintain an intergenerational dialogue with another civilization that might require centuries or millennia for each exchange? "If paranoid, berserk, or thoroughly selfish societies last long enough to make contact with other civilizations," Harrison says, "their foreign policies would put them out of business." However slight the chance, what if extraterrestrials really are as malevolent as Hollywood often portrays them? Would we be opening ourselves up to interstellar war if we respond to a signal? In all likelihood, Harrison says, "Our response to their signal will not be a beacon encouraging them to exterminate us." Hostility at interstellar distances, he maintains, is hard to imagine: "The immense distances that separate stars and galaxies make hostile action unlikely. Immense distance also interferes with the trade of material goods and services, but it leaves open the possibility of trading information." Interstellar Altruism Is it realistic to expect the bartering of information between stars? Could the potential benefits of interstellar commerce justify the long-term commitment that interstellar communication requires? In Harrison's view, there might be yet another motive for extraterrestrials to look out for the best interests of humankind: their own self-interest. By providing primitive civilizations such as ours with some guidance at a distance, ET might help stabilize our society. In return, our interstellar interlocutors might benefit by having more cooperative neighbors. "In a sense," Harrison notes in his book After Contact: The Human Response to Extraterrestrial Life, "they could provide us with just enough aid to 'keep the lid on our garbage can.'" Harrison has no doubt that the powerful survive, even on other worlds. But he suggests that we need to expand beyond our usual conceptions of power, which often focus on destructive power. Instead, he suggests that the concept of "integrative power" may be more applicable to understanding extraterrestrial civilizations. When viewed in terms of integrative power, Harrison says, "The powerful person, organization, or society is one that can communicate, persuade, create loyalties, and build social bonds." And this is exactly what he expects to find among extraterrestrial civilizations that have lasted long enough for us to detect them: "the odds are stacked in favor of finding an old civilization whose cooperative views have contributed to its longevity." Perhaps the most important question we need to ask ourselves if we detect a signal from extraterrestrial intelligence is whether we should reply. "The risk of responding is vanishingly small," Harrison says. "The least productive response may be no response at all."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Physical Evidence - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 22:54:13 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:17:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Friedman >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 07:59:09 -0700 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:01:27 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence >>>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:19:00 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Physical Evidence ><snip> >>>I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >>>alternative hypothesis others than the ET spacecraft, and which >>>one you think, the alternatives, are? >>Secondly, the question should not be what are UFOs? It should be >>are any UFOs ET spacecraft?. The answer is yes. Are any UFOs >>secret government vehicles, or natural phenomena or man made >>reentering objects or searchlights on clouds... yes, yes, >>yes, YES! >I'm happy with the first question. If any UFOs are ET >spacecraft, the first queston will eventually lead us to that >answer. The beauty of it is, if no UFOs are ET spacecraft, the >first question will lead to the correct answer faster than the >second. >>Because most people are not 7' tall, does not mean that no >>person is 7' tall. >Sorry, Stan, not an apt analogy. This could be applied to 12' >tall persons as well. I know that there are people that are seven feet tall. Thus the fact that most people are not... which is certainly true, does not mean that no one is 7' tall. I do not know anybody who is 12' tall, do you? Some excellent sightings cannot be explained as conventional objects but give every indication of being manufactured based on the way they look, and originating elsewhere based on the way they behave. If we Earthlings could build things that look like that and act like that, we would, because for any government what is most important is the technology. Stan Friedman
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Roswell Museum Publishes UFO Magazine From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 05:34:15 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:26:15 -0400 Subject: Roswell Museum Publishes UFO Magazine Source: The Washington Times http://washingtontimes.com/national/20020815-79757418.htm Stig *** Roswell museum publishes UFO magazine Sarah Means The Washington Times Published 8/15/2002 ** A small New Mexico city that is the scene of America's most famous UFO incident is now the base for a new magazine on extraterrestrials. Incident, a bimonthly publication, premiered last month at the UFO Festival in Roswell, which is in the southeastern corner of the state. Incident is a compilation of research on UFOs, stories about the legendary 1947 crash landing of a spaceship a few miles outside town and other unexplained phenomena. As the official magazine of Roswell's International UFO Museum and Research Center, it is available to any visitor who makes a donation. "[The museum=B4s] goal is to build up their membership base," said publication director Ralph Damiani, "and expand ground support." A popular feature is the museum's Kid's Club, where children ages 5 to 14 can submit UFO drawings for publication. A two-page spread draws interest to the museum itself, and a "Fact or Fiction" page tests readers' abilities to discern accurate UFO photos. The page has fabricated photos sprinkled alongside apparently real ones. Incident also informs out-of-state readers about the museum and research center. Based on estimates of museum visitors, the magazine is reaching 220,000 readers. Its publishers hope to expand to 100,000 paid subscriptions worldwide. "We are hoping to put together the most informative magazine on the topic of unexplained phenomena in the United States," said sales manager Carl Lucas. "We just want to provide the information and allow people to make their own conclusions about the phenomena." The magazine's contributors are specialists in their fields, having written books, delivered lectures or otherwise established themselves with the research center. Author Stanton Friedman, author of "The Roswell Cover-up" in the premier issue, has written several books, given numerous lectures, worked as a consultant for the Fox TV show "The X- Files," and is regarded as one of the premier UFO researchers in the country. Another writer, Paul Davids, was the executive producer of Showtime's "Roswell." "I'm thrilled that they're doing it," he said about Incident's publication. "I think it fills a need we've had for a long time =97 to have a journalistic voice coming out of Roswell that gives special attention to this famous incident from 1947. I think the magazine will continue to help us get the truth." Roswell holds special significance for UFO researchers because the incident there on July 8, 1947, is the only time the U.S. military has admitted to having found a flying saucer. Within 24 hours, however, the statement was retracted. But the retraction only gave rise to more questions and theories. The first issue of Incident focuses two of its three feature stories on events surrounding the Roswell crash. "The Roswell incident is the jumping-off point for this magazine," Mr. Davids said. "If it happened the way [UFO researchers] said it did, it's the most important story in the last 100 years." ** Copyright =A9 2002 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:28:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:08:49 +0000 >Subject: Two New Items On Trindade Case >Someone asked me a question about the 1958 Trindade Isle, >Brazil, photo case and I dug through my files some more. >I found two new itmes relevant to John Rimmer's non-witness and >hoax suggestions: >(1) A clipping from the Los Angeles Times, Feb. 26, 1958, >datelined Rio de Janeiro, Feb. 25 (UP) [United Press; later >United Press International] - "The Brazilian Navy vouched today >for the authenticity of the photographs [of the UFO] taken in >the presence of a large number of seamen while the ship was >cruising off Trindade Island... Navy Minister Adm. Antonio Alves >Camara... also vouched personally for the authenticity of the >pictures." Dick: Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. Clear skies, Bob Young To paraphrase: "Your adherence to the CSICOP credo is admirable: Non potest, ergo non est [It can't be a hoax, therefore it isn't]." --Richard Hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO Bases From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:39:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:32:35 -0400 Subject: Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO Bases Source: Baku Sun - Azerbaijan http://www.bakusun.az/cgi-bin/ayten/bakusun/show.cgi?code=2956 Stig *** August 16 2002 Flying saucers Myth or fact? Natiq Zeynalli ** UFO bases in the Caspian? What's next, the Baku-Jupiter-Saturn pipeline? The Aug. 1-2 sighting of UFOs over Baku's oil company district, Bayil, as reported by the opposition daily Musavat raised a few eyebrows ? most of them sarcastically. Did it mean that so- called flying saucers run on petrol as well at anti-matter? According to Fuad Gasimov, academician and head of the Seismological Department of the National Aerospace Agency the often-sighted space craft have bases deep in the Caspian, one off the north part of the Absheron Peninsula, the other in the north sector of the Caspian Sea. "I had been associated with the Institute of Earth Physics of the Academy of Sciences of the U.S.S.R. during the Soviet era," Gasimov told the Baku Sun. "Since then we have information on the existence UFO bases around Baku. But it was strongly kept as a military secret." Gasimov says that he worked with a Soviet organization that charted UFOs. The organization sent an expedition to Baku and the Absheron Peninsula, where they discovered UFOs bases around the Nardaran and Pirshagi districts and around the Siyazan water spring. The entrances to these bases, he says, are found deep underground. The Caspian region isn't the only home for UFOs, he says. The Pacific and Atlantic oceans, in particular around Bermuda are also home to alien bases. Gasimov is not Baku's only ufologist. Other than the incidents at Nardaran, flying saucers zoom in as the No. 2 topic of conversation in the villages around Baku. Vidadi Emrullaoglu, 85, a resident of Mardakan village, swears he saw a UFO with his own eyes. He says that while drinking tea on his balcony he observed a huge shining object going toward the sea. It wasn't the first time Emrullaoglu has spotted an alien vessel, he says. In August last year, he and his neighbors were terrified by three shining objects in the sky. "I saw it with my own eyes," he says. "Again, they were like a huge circles with terrifying lights around it. They seemed very close to you, but the interesting thing is they would disappear rapidly." Of course, alien visits and UFO sightings have been a theme of discussion among scientists long before the X-Files. Rovshan Salmanzadeh, Ph.D is head of the department of solar-physics at the Shamakha Observatory works in this sphere professionally. However, he is quick to note that he refuses to believe in UFOs until the day he's personally verified that what he saw was an alien craft. He told the Baku Sun that under the Soviets at the end of the 1980s, Azeri scientists produced theoretical studies, or functioning principles, for types of flying objects such as UFOs. Most requests came from the Ministry of Defense of the Soviet Union. He notes that this was the period of the United States' Strategic Defense Initiative, also known as the Star Wars space defense plan. While everyone knows now that all Star Wars did was make a lot of U.S. defense contractors rich, back in the day, the U.S.S.R. took it seriously and wanted its own scientists to come up with a possible answer to SDI's space shield. Azeri scientists were called on to develop a Soviet UFO. After the collapse of U.S.S.R. Salmanzadeh says, all research about the theoretical principles of flying objects prepared by Azeri scientists were sent to Moscow, sometime in the early 1990s. So can anyone here come up with credible evidence as to the existence of alien craft? Salmanzadeh claims to have observed a flying object that looked like a UFO in October 1999. He was on his way back to Baku after an international conference at the Shamakha Observatory. He and some colleagues took photos of the craft, which they named Tusi-800. But in the end, they couldn't clarify whether it was a genuine close encounter or simply a plane flying a long distance away. ** Programming by Ayten Alizadeh. Copyight by IntraNS. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO Bases From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:39:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:34:15 -0400 Subject: Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO Bases Source: Baku Sun - Azerbaijan http://www.bakusun.az/cgi-bin/ayten/bakusun/show.cgi?code=2956 Stig *** August 16 2002 Flying saucers Myth or fact? Natiq Zeynalli ** UFO bases in the Caspian? What's next, the Baku-Jupiter-Saturn pipeline? The Aug. 1-2 sighting of UFOs over Baku's oil company district, Bayil, as reported by the opposition daily Musavat raised a few eyebrows ? most of them sarcastically. Did it mean that so- called flying saucers run on petrol as well at anti-matter? According to Fuad Gasimov, academician and head of the Seismological Department of the National Aerospace Agency the often-sighted space craft have bases deep in the Caspian, one off the north part of the Absheron Peninsula, the other in the north sector of the Caspian Sea. "I had been associated with the Institute of Earth Physics of the Academy of Sciences of the U.S.S.R. during the Soviet era," Gasimov told the Baku Sun. "Since then we have information on the existence UFO bases around Baku. But it was strongly kept as a military secret." Gasimov says that he worked with a Soviet organization that charted UFOs. The organization sent an expedition to Baku and the Absheron Peninsula, where they discovered UFOs bases around the Nardaran and Pirshagi districts and around the Siyazan water spring. The entrances to these bases, he says, are found deep underground. The Caspian region isn't the only home for UFOs, he says. The Pacific and Atlantic oceans, in particular around Bermuda are also home to alien bases. Gasimov is not Baku's only ufologist. Other than the incidents at Nardaran, flying saucers zoom in as the No. 2 topic of conversation in the villages around Baku. Vidadi Emrullaoglu, 85, a resident of Mardakan village, swears he saw a UFO with his own eyes. He says that while drinking tea on his balcony he observed a huge shining object going toward the sea. It wasn't the first time Emrullaoglu has spotted an alien vessel, he says. In August last year, he and his neighbors were terrified by three shining objects in the sky. "I saw it with my own eyes," he says. "Again, they were like a huge circles with terrifying lights around it. They seemed very close to you, but the interesting thing is they would disappear rapidly." Of course, alien visits and UFO sightings have been a theme of discussion among scientists long before the X-Files. Rovshan Salmanzadeh, Ph.D is head of the department of solar-physics at the Shamakha Observatory works in this sphere professionally. However, he is quick to note that he refuses to believe in UFOs until the day he's personally verified that what he saw was an alien craft. He told the Baku Sun that under the Soviets at the end of the 1980s, Azeri scientists produced theoretical studies, or functioning principles, for types of flying objects such as UFOs. Most requests came from the Ministry of Defense of the Soviet Union. He notes that this was the period of the United States' Strategic Defense Initiative, also known as the Star Wars space defense plan. While everyone knows now that all Star Wars did was make a lot of U.S. defense contractors rich, back in the day, the U.S.S.R. took it seriously and wanted its own scientists to come up with a possible answer to SDI's space shield. Azeri scientists were called on to develop a Soviet UFO. After the collapse of U.S.S.R. Salmanzadeh says, all research about the theoretical principles of flying objects prepared by Azeri scientists were sent to Moscow, sometime in the early 1990s. So can anyone here come up with credible evidence as to the existence of alien craft? Salmanzadeh claims to have observed a flying object that looked like a UFO in October 1999. He was on his way back to Baku after an international conference at the Shamakha Observatory. He and some colleagues took photos of the craft, which they named Tusi-800. But in the end, they couldn't clarify whether it was a genuine close encounter or simply a plane flying a long distance away. ** Programming by Ayten Alizadeh. Copyight by IntraNS. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Physical Evidence - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:55:52 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:36:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Physical Evidence - Tonnies >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:00:45 -0400 >Subject: Re: Physical Evidence <snip> >>>I would like to ask: How many ufologists are looking for >>>alternative hypothesis others than the ET spacecraft, and which >>>one you think, the alternatives, are? >>A _very_ good question, and I'm glad you asked. I >>hope others here will chime in as well. >>I for one, while on the one hand admitting a fond hope for the >>ETH, am constantly on the lookout for other possibilities. Just >>because it's unexplained and not prosaic, doesn't mean it _has_ >>to be little grey men. (Just because we don't know how the >>universe came into existence, doesn't mean God did it). A few >>other possibilities I've considered without discarding: >>- Experimental military craft >>- Holographic projections (I will discuss this at length in a >>later post) >>- Mind control experimentation >>- Extradimensionals >>I think that by keeping my mind open to these and a few other >>possibilities, I will be less likely to subconsciously discard >>data that doesn't fit any one "pet" hypothesis. >The minute we attempt to identify the source of the UFO >phenomenon we are treading on purely speculative ground. There's >nothing wrong with speculating as long as it based on bits and >pieces of what we already know or that we can safely surmise >based on what we know. <snip> I need to add the mind control hypothesis to my list of possible explanations: http://mactonnies.com/whosthere.html Mac Tonnies
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:40:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:42:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Speiser >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:52:59 +0000 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >Bob Young argues by fiat that Non potest, ergo non est (It can't >be, therefore it isn't). Witnesses couldn't have seen what they >said they saw, since there is no such thing as a true UFO. His >attempts to convert Ravenna into Venus and the Ohio helicopter >case into a fireball border on the hilarious, except that his >underlying logic and reasoning need to be exposed for what they >are: Dogmatic rejection of carefully vetted witness testimony. And speaking of the Mansfield case and the aforementioned "fireball" explanation, I would like to follow up on that a bit. I do not have any of my references here in Show Low, but I remember an exchange I had with PJK about this one. He made the contention in his book that this case was either a fireball or a real extraterrestral vehicle; as I put it to him, "bolide or bona fide." We went back and forth on how long a bolide can last, but I remember that we agreed that the rate-of- climb of a Bell UH-1H was a vital yardstick for the duration of the event, and we also agreed that the event had to have lasted at least a minute. When I argued that a minute is a preposterous amount of time for a bolide event, he countered with the example of an occurence in, I believe it was Wyoming in the seventies, where a bolide was captured on movie film for approximately 26 seconds. Now 26 seconds is not a minute, but I'll concede that it is startlingly long for such an event. I put it on my things-to-do list to determine once and for all what the extreme limit is for the duration of a bolide event - my thinking being, if I can put "fireball" outside the realm of possibility, then I'll have PJK strung up by his own words. Alas, I never got around to it... so, here goes..... First, is anyone here aware of the details of the Wyoming event? Second, does anyone know what the outside limit is for the duration of a bolide? Along these lines, someone here recently posted a nasa.gov article about "earthgrazer" meteors, and on a lark I decided to email the author with my questions. (The emails are on my other computer, otherwise I'd post them here). He told me that earthgrazers - which PJK and I agreed the Mansfield "fireball" would have been, since it disappeared well above the horizon - generally last 2-3 seconds, with an extreme of about 5-7 seconds. When I described the Wyoming incident, he was fairly confident that it had to have been an article of space junk, which he said can hang around in the atmosphere for some time. He said such occurrences generally take place in the early evening. Now, if I recall the Wyoming film, it did not resemble a space junk re-entry, which I have seen before, and it didn't seem to be in the evening. I guess what I'm leading up to is, are we certain the Wyoming event is an IFO? If it _was_ a bolide, then is it possible the Mansfield case's 1 minute duration is also within the limit? And if the Wyoming event was _not_ a bolide, and wasn't space junk, is it possible that PJK was attempting to debunk a UFO... by referring to another UFO? ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 ET Candidate Says It's No Game From: Kurt Jonach - The Electric Warrior <eWarrior@electricwarrior.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 02:54:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:44:31 -0400 Subject: ET Candidate Says It's No Game From: The Electric Warrior (Kurt Jonach) -------------------------------------------------- The Electric Warrior : News August 17, 2002 http://www.electricwarrior.com -------------------------------------------------- ET CANDIDATE SAYS IT'S NO GAME ufo & extraterrestrial intelligence *** A UFO disclosure campaign platform coincides with a Washington DC UFO flap *** artwork: US Capitol Building http://www.electricwarrior.com/gallery/ewCapitol.jpg (The Electric Warrior) - Make no mistake about it, Stephen Bassett, the first person to appear on any general election ballot running on a platform of UFO disclosure, is committed his ideology: he doesn't talk about the notion of UFOs, he talks about the reality of an extraterrestrial presence. "It is time for the United States of America, a nation which views itself as a leader of nations, to formally acknowledge this extraterrestrial presence," says the candidate's keynote statement. Describing himself as a populist, the UFO/ET activist thinks his campaign appeals equally to both parties. "If there is any bipartisan issue in this world, this should be it," Bassett said soon after announcing his candidacy. This week the Disclosure 2003 campaign announced that Basset had met or exceeded the requirements for nominating signatures from 1% of the registered voters in his district, and was officially on the November ballot. Basset is frank about the prospect of being elected. He says there is little chance he will become a congressman. He's running to draw attention to his belief that the government knows about ET and that for the first time since 1947 the nation is ready for a formal UFO disclosure. "While millions of people worldwide have come to understand they are not alone in the universe," says Bassett, "the governments of the world, frozen in place by fear and indecision, have been unable to publicly engage this new reality." As Bassett tells it, government acknowledgment of an extraterrestrial presence is inevitable. UFOs OVER WASHINGTON DC Bassett's run for Congress coincides with the 50th anniversary of the Washington DC UFO flap, one of the most famous and enduring controversies in Ufology. Fifty years ago, unidentified flying objects over our nation's capital made headlines in well respected newspapers nationwide. This year, as if on cue, Air Force jets over the DC area reportedly chased a light-blue object that traveled at a phenomenal rate of speed. The witness told his neighbor, "I think those jets are chasing a UFO." Then as now, Andrews Air Force Base responded to unknown aircraft picked up by radar. At about 1 a.m. on July 26, 2002 the North American Aerospace Defense Command scrambled two F-16 jets to investigate. "Any unknown air activity is potentially threatening," NORAD told the Washington Times. "Yes, there was a UFO -- an unidentified flying object -- momentarily spotted by radar. Does that mean it's an alien spaceship? No." Unlike 50 years ago, there was no widespread media coverage, no panic over an apparent invasion of our airspace, no call by the President for an account of what UFOs were doing in his neighborhood, and no press conference at the Pentagon for an official explanation. It would seem that we have learned to live with the idea of UFOs as unexplained phenomena. We don't need answers, and they aren't forthcoming. "The public knows the game that is being played. They know there will be no investigation. They play along because they have no choice (or think they have no choice)," Bassett told The Electric Warrior. "Whenever game playing replaces governance, the social contract beings to deteriorate. End the cover- up, end the game." -------------------------------------------------- RELATED RESOURCES Disclosure 2003 http://www.disclosure2003.net/ For the past five decades the human race has been caught between two worlds, two paradigms. While millions of people worldwide have come to understand they are not alone in the universe, that an extraterrestrial presence has become manifest about the planet, the governments of the world, frozen in place by fear and indecision, have been unable to publicly engage this new reality. This cannot continue. 08-Aug-02 Report on Sighting of July 26, 2002 http://www.fufor.com/report_020726.htm (FUFOR) FAIRFAX, VA - Witness sights a blue light being pursued by a fighter...His sense is that the light is moving in an effortless almost floating manner but at high speed, but not at meteoric speed...Rogers did not know when the aircraft began its pursuit of the light, but when it appeared over his house, he is sure it was then in pursuit of the light but that it had no chance of catching it as the blue light was much faster than the pursuing jet. 30-Jul-02 Have we lost our curiosity? http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA25559A.htm (Florida Today) - Nothing unusual in this day and age about a low-flying object closing in on the nation's capital, refusing to identify itself, then out-maneuvering an F-16. No media demand for a press conference to hear about temperature inversions, either. Actually, aside from the BBC and a blurb in the Post, no media coverage, period. -------------------------------------------------- THE ELECTRIC WARRIOR August 17, 2002 Silicon Valley, CA http://www.electricwarrior.com Graphics & Gonzo -------------------------------------------------- Do you like this article? The URL address for this content is: http://www.electricwarrior.com/news/ewNews0048.htm The Electric Warrior is not responsible for the content of Web links. Content reproduced here is for informational purposes only. All copyrights Acknowledged. eWarrior@electricwarrior.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 TorStar - 'The Truth Is Out There' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:28:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:28:20 -0400 Subject: TorStar - 'The Truth Is Out There' Saturday, August 17, 2002 Life Section Page K14 The Truth Is Out There Discovery Of Extraterrestrial Life Could Have Profound Impact On Religion By Michael McAteer Special To The Star Are we alone in the Universe or will we one day meet our equals =97 or our masters - among the stars as Arthur C. Clarke predicted in 2001: A Space Odyssey? And, if we share the immensity of space with others, what manner of being is out there? Hostile or benevolent? Moral or amoral? Little green men, bug-eyed monsters, or four-metres-tall reptilian creatures as encountered by the Peruvian Jesuit priest scientist, Ramon Ruiz-Sanchez, on the planet Lithia, 50 light- years from Earth? The Lithians of the 1950s science fiction novel A Case Of Conscience, by James Blish, are rational, logical beings. Without gods, myths, legends or supernatural beliefs, their society is free of crime, greed and competition. Not being born of man, they do not share the human burden of original sin. Before he arrives on Lithia, the biologist Ruiz-Sanchez sees no insoluble conflict between his religious faith and science. He believes all creatures are God=92s and each new planet with all its manifestations affirms God=92s power. Yet what the priest experiences on the alien planet forces him into the heretical belief that Lithia is a construct of Satan and leads him to a crisis of faith. Is life unique to Earth? By the year 2020, radio telescope technology may answer a question that philosophers and theologians have pondered down the ages, a scientist from the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) Institute in California told a York University seminar earlier this year. Whatever answer will have mind-boggling theological and philosophical consequences. Paul Davies, an Australian scientist and a key voice in the extraterrestrial life (ETL) debate, argues that the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial beings would have a profound impact on religion, shattering completely the traditional perspective on God=92s relationship with humans. The difficulties are particularly acute for Christianity, he says, which postulates that Jesus Christ was God incarnate whose mission was to provide salvation for humans on Earth. C. S. Lewis, a formidable exponent of orthodox Christianity, argued that Christianity would survive the discovery of extraterrestrial beings. Yet, he did concede the discovery would pose a formidable question for Christianity: "If we find ourselves to be but one of a million races, scattered through a million spheres, how can we, without absurd arrogance, believe ourselves to have been uniquely favoured?" Like the fictional Ruiz-Sanchez, Chris Corbally, the English- born vice-director of the Vatican Observatory near Rome and current president of the Institute on Religion in an Age of Science, is a Jesuit priest-scientist who sees no conflict between his religious faith and science. One of the Vatican=92s 13 astronomers, he lives in Tucson, Ariz., near the Vatican=92s Advanced Technology Telescope on Mount Graham. Corbally has been studying the heavens since 1969. While he has found nothing to prove or disprove the existence of ETL, he says there is nothing scientifically or theologically against its existence. Rather than threaten his faith, he says discovery of other intelligent beings in space would reinforce his belief in God=92s omnipotence and love. Earlier this year, Corbally was feature speaker at one of a series of York University seminars sponsored by the university=92s Science and Society Programme and Bethune College. Other participants in The Quest for Contact series included a SET! scientist, an historian of science, a theoretical physicist and a science-fiction writer. The Vatican Observatory has said there may be solar systems like our own which could suggest other systems of planets and possible life out there in space. Three years ago, the Vatican=92s Pontifical Academy of Science held a week long meeting focusing on the possibility of extraterrestrial life and intelligence. Corbally says the meeting generated much interest but reached no conclusions although no serious theological objections were raised. Corbally told the university seminar he was unaware of any formal Vatican document on how the Roman Catholic Church might react to extraterrestrial contact. This surprised Robert Sawyer, a Canadian award-winning science fiction writer and a seminar participant; Sawyer suggests the church=92s response to the possible discovery of extraterrestrial life can take two forms: the soft and the hard response. "The soft response is what Father Corbally gave us," Sawyer said in an interview. "It=92s basically a spiritual, as opposed to an explicitly Christian, reply and it amounts to nothing more than saying that in this whole vast universe, sure, there might be other intelligences. "The hard response would be to deal with the issue in explicit Christian terms, and I=92d be fascinated to know what, if any, response the Vatican has. But, apparently they=92re going to keep mum on this." Do aliens have souls? Were they tainted by original sin? Did a saviour come to redeem them? Such questions, Sawyer says, deserve some response. To ignore them puts the Church=92s credibility in doubt. "My own response is that at some point, our expanding understanding of scientific reality is going to cause traditional churches to have to throw in the towel, and say, that at best, the Bible is a book of moral teachings devoid of any historical or scientific accuracy." Paul Fayter, a United Church minister at First-Pilgrim Church in Hamilton, a York University historian of science and a science fiction buff, says he would be "astonished" if the Vatican did not have a draft position paper on a response to the discovery of ETL. "Catholic theologians and scientists are in the forefront of cosmological and astronomical research and ETL speculation," he said in an interview. Fayter says the ETL debate is hardly a hot topic with most priests, pastors and rabbis and there appears to be less interest in the subject among theologians in the space age than among 19th century theologians. On the other hand, he says an increasing number of theologically trained scientists and scientifically trained theologians have entered the debate over the past few decades. While the discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial might shock many Christians, Fayter suggests it would not require much in the way of theological change or adjustment. He dismisses as absurd, the argument posited by Davies and others, that the discovery would blow Earth-bound religions out of the water. "There=92s a steady stream of theological speculation since the beginning that tends to be in favour of ETL as an outflow of God=92s sovereignty and omnipotence," Fayter said. "Theologically, there would be hardly a blip on the part of anyone who knows the Christian, Jewish or Muslim theology." While Fayter says his own theology could handle the discovery of intelligent alien beings, he does not expect it to be tested. He would love there to be other civilizations in space and would enjoy contact with other beings, but he says that, scientifically, it=92s increasingly unlikely there are intelligent other beings out there. "Any scientist who claims, on the basis of the wasted space argument, that there are so many civilizations out there is expressing what I would call a religious hope not sustainable on the basis of science," he said. "The theologian in me, the science fiction fan, would love there to be ETL. But realistically, in terms of the science, the evolution, the physics, the astronomy, and so on, I=92m afraid it=92s quite possible we are alone." Michael McAteer is The Star=92s former religion editor.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 New 'Alien Face' Crop Formation - Analysis From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:53:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:25:40 -0400 Subject: New 'Alien Face' Crop Formation - Analysis See images: http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/cgi-bin/CCdb2?d=uk02dl This email from UK crop circle researcher Paul Vigay pvigay@cropcircleresearch.com who is out there on site in the fields doing marvellous work. Cheers, Dave Haith ----- Alien Face formation ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I've just finished writing a preliminary report on the 'alien face' formation at Pitt, nr Winchester. This article is more of a meander and thought process, which has given me some ideas for future areas of research, and also some research topics I'm already investigating. I've not gone into too much detail in the article itself, mainly because I want to write a more detailed article as a followup when I've had a chance to do some more research and investigations. However, I wanted to get something up as soon as possible so that people around the world, who can't physically visit the crop formation can see what sort of research is inspired by these things. Personally, I'm unimpressed with the formation, but whatever it's origin, it emphasises my view that crop circles are a conduit for learning and improving one's knowledge on all manner of topics. The article is now online at http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/alienface.html - I will probably update it and add further articles as research progresses. Please feel free to share any feedback or ideas. regards, Paul -- Paul Vigay - Editor & Publisher of "Enigma" New Sciences Research Journal http://www.cropcircleresearch.com The World's most comprehensive Crop Circle Database - fully interactive! http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/database/ Order crop circle & related books from our new online bookstore, in association with Amazon - http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/books/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:05:50 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:27:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:08:49 +0000 >>Subject: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Someone asked me a question about the 1958 Trindade Isle, >>Brazil, photo case and I dug through my files some more. >>I found two new itmes relevant to John Rimmer's non-witness and >>hoax suggestions: >>(1) A clipping from the Los Angeles Times, Feb. 26, 1958, >>datelined Rio de Janeiro, Feb. 25 (UP) [United Press; later >>United Press International] - "The Brazilian Navy vouched today >>for the authenticity of the photographs [of the UFO] taken in >>the presence of a large number of seamen while the ship was >>cruising off Trindade Island... Navy Minister Adm. Antonio Alves >>Camara... also vouched personally for the authenticity of the >>pictures." >Dick: >Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. >Clear skies, >Bob Young >To paraphrase: >"Your adherence to the CSICOP credo is admirable: Non potest, >ergo non est [It can't be a hoax, therefore it isn't]." --Richard Hall Bob, As usual, you skew the point for self-serving reasons. Adm. Carara was a very high-ranking Navy official privy to the full investigation, who most assuredly would not have vouched for the photos if there was the slightest evidence of a hoax. And where have I ever said or implied that it "can't be a hoax?" Surely you must understand that it is up to people asserting or claiming that it was a hoax to produce evidence thereof? Show me the evidence? - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:45:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 14:28:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:08:49 +0000 >>Subject: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>(1) A clipping from the Los Angeles Times, Feb. 26, 1958, >>datelined Rio de Janeiro, Feb. 25 (UP) [United Press; later >>United Press International] - "The Brazilian Navy vouched today >>for the authenticity of the photographs [of the UFO] taken in >>the presence of a large number of seamen while the ship was >>cruising off Trindade Island... Navy Minister Adm. Antonio Alves >>Camara... also vouched personally for the authenticity of the >>pictures." >Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. But of course he was a lot closer than you or I will ever be. Given whom to credit here - you or the admiral - I'd say it's no contest. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 17 UFO UpDates Off-line Until August 29 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:43:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:43:18 -0400 Subject: UFO UpDates Off-line Until August 29 The List will be off-line until Thursday August 29. A much needed break, on a lake with several books that need to be read starts after tonight's SDI program. Dave Furlotte, Victor Viggiani & John Velez will amaze and delight you next Saturday night on SDI. Filer's Files and UFO Roundup are available at John Hayes' excellent site: http://www.ufoinfo.com Please hold post submissions until Wednesday the 28th. Errol Bruce-Knapp Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 18:27:06 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:49:59 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:39:25 UT >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >><snip> >>Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >>Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >>simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >>removed to date? >I know Dr. Leir and have seen not only photos but videos of the >implants and removals, but he has not presented substantial >evidence from scientific analysis of these objects to show that >they are both anamolous and non-terrestrial. Well... do any of them look manufactured? I ask that because the two NIDS implants appeared to be natural fragments which could have been embedded in an accidental way. Just lumps of iron or some such. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:51:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:52:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:45:40 -0500 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. >But of course he was a lot closer than you or I will ever be. >Given whom to credit here - you or the admiral - I'd say it's no >contest. No, Camara was not there, he was simply going by what his subordinates told him in a very sketchy report which is available on the CUFOS website. I don't know anything about the internal politics of the Brazilian Navy, or indeed Brazil, at the time. Maybe President Kubitschek was a bit of a UFO buff and the naval guys wanted to keep on the right side of him. Has been known! But, as Jerry would say, whatever, the evidence is there for anyone to read. I see no reason why the Brazilian Navy report on Trindade should be taken any more uncritically than the US Air Force report on Roswell of the RAF report on Rendlesham. Surely you are not claiming, Jerry, that military reports should be accepted simply because they happen to agree with you? And I know what you're going to say, this means that the Brazilian Government was the only one in the entire history of the known universe to cover up anti-UFO evidence - assuming these statements from non- witnesses that Jerry demands, actually exist. Maybe, but I rather doubt that actually, if the alternative is to say that their Naval Intelligence Unit is a load of rubbish. But as he is so fond of reminding us, we are a long way away in space and time, so none of us know what may or may not have been going on in the Brazilian Navy All we have to go on are the available documents, and as anyone who reads them will soon see, they are thin stuff indeed. I have said this ad nauseam, and I will not repeat it until some new material is available (and Richard Hall's cuttings are certainly not new material. They are second, third, or fourth hand accounts), we have no direct evidence from anyone except two people who are known to be associates of the photographer prior to the incident. We are nowhere near the "48 witnesses" claimed in Jerry's encyclopedias. Perhaps, if he's now managed to get his material together (and no criticism if he hasn't, I know how disruptive a house move can be), he might be able to tell us where this figure came from. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:57:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:16:00 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:32:16 +0000 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:15 -0400 >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants ><snip> >Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >removed to date? Again, let's not give Roger Leir more credit than he's due. The "Dr." in front of his name has no significance whatsoever in relation to the discussion of aliens, implants or UFOs. The man is a podiatrist. Not a medical doctor. It is my understanding that the majority of the removals had nothing to do with feet. Allegedly medical doctor assisted with these surgeries, but at one time (perhaps still) wanted to remain anonymous. Some science. Hah! Rebecca
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Houston, British Columbia, August 14th, 15th & 16th From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:40:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:18:46 -0400 Subject: Houston, British Columbia, August 14th, 15th & 16th Houston, British Columbia Date: August 14th, 15th & 16th, 2002 Time: 4:10 - 4:30 a.m. Location: Chisholm Road, 64 Kilometers out from Houston, B.C. Bright Lights I got up Thursday morning at 6:00 a.m., to start a new day, wondering what this day might bring. The Prince Rupert Daily newspaper called which took a telephone interview with me on the sightings here in northern British Columbia. Then CIVI Television called also wanting to do an interview for their half hour prime time slot. This of course was to be on UFOs. Gavin McLeod, Vice President of UFO*BC, Gordon Stewart, one of the witnesses from the July 29, 2002 sighting, and myself took part in the program answering the questions which were asked of us all. It was interesting and went very well. After the interview was completed my wife and I ran out the door as we were heading out for dinner with friends. After our evening out we arrived back home where I had two answering machine messages waiting for me. One was of interest, as a logger telephoned to tell me that he had been seeing strange, bright white lights when he was 64 kilometers out on a logging cut block. The logger wanted to know if I wanted to go out and investigate what he was seeing. On his message the fellow left instruction as to where to meet him at 3:00 a.m., if I was interested in looking for myself, which I was. I managed to grab about an hour and a half worth of sleep, and left the house just a little before 3:00 a.m. and drove to the scales at Houston Forest Products where I was then picked up by the witness in his logging truck. On our way out we discussed what he had been seeing over the last few nights, which I was really interested in after knowing what had taken place over the last while. We reached the area where his logging truck was to be loaded, it also was a crystal clear night and I could see for miles. The fellow pointed in the direction as to where he was seeing the lights, and I watched. The time was 4:10 a.m. when I first spotted a dim white light flying slowly across the sky just above the horizon towards Morice Mountain, then a huge bright white light caught my attention. It was if an aircraft was close to us, and shone his spotlight (landing lights) in our direction it was so bright. I watched the light for about 5 seconds before it dropped below the mountain. The logger said this had been going on for the last two days prior to me being out there. It was not an aircraft, meteor, satellite, etc.. What it was is a mystery to me. The logger also said, he and some of his co- workers when working on this cut block had been watching normal aircraft running all over the area, at the wee hours of the morning at low attitude, which I will say is certainly strange. There is nothing out there, other than the mountains and a carpet of trees. I talked with a Button Top operator who stopped working to chat with me, and he said himself, and others have been seeing all kinds of strange lights flying in different direction, doing strange maneuvers for sometime now. I kept my eyes on the sky before we had to leave, plus sunrise was also close. I seen nothing else after witnessing the one bright light plus the dim one. This logger, and loader operator both told me that on August 14, they watched two lights, one they thought was an aircraft as it did have strobe lights on it, and the other just a fast dot of white light. Both of these lights were flying towards each other and as they got close, the witnesses said it appeared as if they were circling each other over a large distance before the white dot left in a south westerly direction and was followed by what they thought was a normal aircraft of some kind. They lost sight of both object as they flew overtop and behind the mountains. Anyway, what ever it was I actually saw was interesting this is for sure. What it was, beats me. Take care Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:23:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:05:50 +0000 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:08:49 +0000 >>>Subject: Two New Items On Trindade Case >Bob, >As usual, you skew the point for self-serving reasons. Dick, And what would those be? >Adm. Carara was a very high-ranking Navy official privy to the >full investigation, who most assuredly would not have vouched >for the photos if there was the slightest evidence of a hoax. You must mean if he knew it was a hoax? Or was the Brazilian Navy different from our military, and would never, never cover up incompetence, ill preparedness, a stupid blunder which allowed the President of Brazil to vouch for the pictures (he wasn't there, either) thereby turning it into a world wide political fiasco, or a TRUFO? You can't have it both ways. He still wasn't there. >And where have I ever said or implied that it "can't be a hoax?" Sorry, I'll take that back. You agree, then, that a hoax isn't impossible, only that you haven't been able to figure out how? >Surely you must understand that it is up to people asserting or >claiming that it was a hoax to produce evidence thereof? >Show me the evidence? I realize that you've probably never seen a picture of an alleged saucer that you didn't like, but 1) The photographer took trick photos of UFOs and had published them. 2) The hoaxer possessed the negatives for several days and had ample opportunity to do it. 3) The hoaxer fumbled and flipped the second image upside down, then allowed it to be published around the world. Clear skies, Bob Young Murphy's Law - If there's more than one way to do a job and one of those ways will end in disaster, then someone will do it that way. -- USAF Capt. Edward Aloysius Murphy, 1949
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Police Tapes Of Aug. 9 UFO Situation, Butler City, From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:14:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:30:16 -0400 Subject: Police Tapes Of Aug. 9 UFO Situation, Butler City, This is a quick note to inform that Donnie Blessing has acquired police tapes of an unusual event taking place around 35-miles north of Cincinnati on August 9, 2002 at 9:30 p.m. The tapes were released to her by the the Butler County, Ohio Sheriff's dispatch headquarters and contains one citizen complaint of a strange object described as an 'umbrella' of light which has some kind of 'movement'. A police officer is dispatched to investigate the complaint (near Wayne Madison Rd.) and when arriving on the scene, the officer also remarks at the strangeness of the object and his inability to explain the spectacle. Information pertaining to this citizen complaint and police officer sighting were not divulged during earlier telephone inquiries with the Butler County dispatch office, where the officer handling the inquiry knew nothing of the event but offered that the situation was 'probably caused by a star cluster.' In addition to the tape from Butler County, Donnie is also working to obtain similar tapes from the sheriff's headquarters in adjacent Franklin County, Indiana. Apparently around 10:10 p.m. the same evening, the Franklin County Sheriff's Department had been advised by an Ohio police department (Oxford City or Butler County) to be on the lookout for a low-flying "unidentified flying object" headed into their jurisdiction. Last week I spoke at length with a emergency medical technician and security officer with the Department of Natural Resources regarding this same event. He advised that a remarkably silent object flew directly overhead at an extremely low elevation. The object was estimated to be no larger than 12-feet in length having three non-strobing red lights situated 3 to 6-feet apart. The object was said to have caused "havoc" at the Brookville Lake Campground and numerous calls were said to have been received by Franklin County dispatchers. This officer acknowledges that any speculation this may have been a helicopter was traceable strictly to him, as he was the only one to see it so close. But he also informs that the object was unlike anything he was familiar with and that he "would not bet on" the object being a helicopter. It is also interesting to note that while Brookville Lake is the scene of a helicopter crash one month earlier said due to numerous power lines in the vicinity, this unusual Aug. 9th object was flying at a treetop elevation in the same area as overhanging power cables. Further reports are pending. Donnie Blessing, Southern Ohio Sectional Director for MUFON, is orchestrating this investigation and will be making additional inquiries. She has left me with the police tape which I will transcribe and post its entire text at a later date (maybe tomorrow if I can) and also left me with the videotape of the July 30th flash over Cincinnati as recorded by the 'in-car videocam' of a North College Hill police cruiser. I will enhance digitized stills of this recording and post online with notice at the earliest possibility. Many thanks to Donnie Blessing for her hard work on this material. Saturday, August 17, 2002 KENNY YOUNG -- UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo NOTE: The 39th Annual NATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE is coming to Cincinnati, OH on Saturday, September 28th at 2:00 p.m. Advance tickets are now available. For more details about the conference, visit the website at: http://home.fuse.net/ufo
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:45:47 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:56:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:45:40 -0500 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. >But of course he was a lot closer than you or I will ever be. >Given whom to credit here - you or the admiral - I'd say it's no >contest. Yup, from our great vantage point, it's just another flying saucer tale, but with another flying saucer photo. Of course the admiral, being closer to things, may have also had a lot more at stake in a cover up. My, this is a switch isn't it? Um, feels exciting. The hair on the back of my neck is tingling. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:27:48 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:58:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:40:25 -0700 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:52:59 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Bob Young argues by fiat that Non potest, ergo non est (It can't >>be, therefore it isn't). Witnesses couldn't have seen what they >>said they saw, since there is no such thing as a true UFO. His >>attempts to convert Ravenna into Venus and the Ohio helicopter >>case into a fireball border on the hilarious, except that his >>underlying logic and reasoning need to be exposed for what they >>are: Dogmatic rejection of carefully vetted witness testimony. >And speaking of the Mansfield case and the aforementioned >"fireball" explanation, I would like to follow up on that a bit. >I do not have any of my references here in Show Low, but I >remember an exchange I had with PJK about this one. >He made the contention in his book that this case was either a >fireball or a real extraterrestral vehicle; as I put it to him, >"bolide or bona fide." We went back and forth on how long a >bolide can last, but I remember that we agreed that the rate-of- >climb of a Bell UH-1H was a vital yardstick for the duration of >the event, and we also agreed that the event had to have lasted >at least a minute. When I argued that a minute is a preposterous >amount of time for a bolide event, he countered with the example >of an occurence in, I believe it was Wyoming in the seventies, >where a bolide was captured on movie film for approximately 26 >seconds. >Now 26 seconds is not a minute, but I'll concede that it is >startlingly long for such an event. I put it on my things-to-do >list to determine once and for all what the extreme limit is for >the duration of a bolide event - my thinking being, if I can put >"fireball" outside the realm of possibility, then I'll have PJK >strung up by his own words. <snip> >First, is anyone here aware of the details of the Wyoming event? Jim: Please see uncle Phil's delightful little paperback, UFOs The Public Decieved, p. 151. Also, "A Meteorite That Missed the Earth" by Luigi G. Jacchia, Sky & Telescope, July, 1974, pp. 4-8. Also see Nature, February 15, 1974, p. 449. The fireball was on August 10, 1972 and was observed from Utah to Montana and Alberta. "...after dazzling thousands of astonished spectators for well over a minute, it left the atmosphere to continue its travel around the sun, in an orbit somewhat modified by the gravitational pull of the earth during the brief encounter," the author wrote. The object was observed by a satellite infrared radiometer and this was combined with a ground observation to determine its orbit. The length of this path was about 1,500 kms and took 101 seconds to traverse. Dr. Richard E. McCrosky, head of the Prairie Network, who had computed several hundred orbits of bright fireballs, remarked that the orbit is only a little unusual. Tough luck. >Second, does anyone know what the outside limit is for the >duration of a bolide? >Along these lines, someone here recently posted a nasa.gov >article about "earthgrazer" meteors, and on a lark I decided to >email the author with my questions. (The emails are on my other >computer, otherwise I'd post them here). He told me that >earthgrazers - which PJK and I agreed the Mansfield "fireball" >would have been, since it disappeared well above the horizon - Most meteors do this. The key thing is that the meteor's radiant (or origin point for the path), not is disappearance, is at or just above the horizon. >generally last 2-3 seconds, with an extreme of about 5-7 >seconds. I've seen earth grazers with these times, notably last November during the Leonid shower, including one which crossed half the sky. The 1972 object was much slower than a Leonid meteor, only about 10 km/sec, relative to the Earth's speed. In other words, it was coming up from behind at a velocity of 34.8 Kms /sec and its relative speed was low. It also was inclined only 15 degrees to the Ecliptic where most asteroids are found and at its most distant point was 2.3 times the Earth's distance from the Sun. Nowadays its would be called a Near Earth Object. >When I described the Wyoming incident, he was fairly >confident that it had to have been an article of space junk, >which he said can hang around in the atmosphere for some time. >He said such occurrences generally take place in the early >evening. Don't know what this would mean, reentries can happen at any hour. Satellites, though, are visible by reflection within a couple of hours of sunset or sunrise, when they are not in the Earth's shadow. This may have been what he meant, but it wasn't an orbiting satellite. >Now, if I recall the Wyoming film, it did not resemble >a space junk re-entry, which I have seen before, In the sense that they usually fragment. >and it didn'tseem to be in the evening. It was in early afternoon. >I guess what I'm leading up to is, are we certain the Wyoming >event is an IFO? If it _was_ a bolide, then is it possible the >Mansfield case's 1 minute duration is also within the limit? It is. >And if the Wyoming event was _not_ a bolide, and wasn't space >junk, is it possible that PJK was attempting to debunk a UFO >by referring to another UFO? Well, if you want to consider all meteors which have not resulted in a found meteorite to be UFOs, then go ahead. I'll help turn all UFO investigators into meteor counters and hunters. It's fun. It's educational. It might even help to advance science a little bit. But it'll probably never find a flying saucer. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Have We Lost Our Curiosity? - Kean From: Leslie Kean <lkean@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 20:46:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:03:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Have We Lost Our Curiosity? - Kean From: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 4:52 PM Subject: UFO UpDate: Have We Lost Our Curiosity? >Source: Florida Today >http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryA25559A.htm >Jul 30, 1:55 PM >Have we lost our curiosity? >Billy Cox >People >Just what Thornton Page meant in a September 1966 letter to Fred >Durant isn't exactly clear. Durant says he doesn't remember the >correspondence, which is understandable after 36 years. Page's >note was retrieved from the Smithsonian Institution several >years ago, where Durant once served as the assistant director >for astronautics. <snip> >Well, sure. Nothing unusual in this day and age about a low- >flying object closing in on the nation's capital, refusing to >identify itself, then out-maneuvering an F-16. No media demand >for a press conference to hear about temperature inversions, >either. Actually, aside from the BBC and a blurb in the Post, no >media coverage, period. >"There's just so much crap in this field, all these conspiracy >theories," says Durant. "You've got another generation coming up >that's increasingly ignorant of the facts. I guess it's fun to >fantasize." >Downright contagious, actually. Billy, Congrats on another great story. It's great to have you back in the swing of things! (it's been a while, right?) Take care, Leslie Kean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:05:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:06:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:40:25 -0700 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:52:59 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Bob Young argues by fiat that Non potest, ergo non est (It can't >>be, therefore it isn't). Witnesses couldn't have seen what they >>said they saw, since there is no such thing as a true UFO. His >>attempts to convert Ravenna into Venus and the Ohio helicopter >>case into a fireball border on the hilarious, except that his >>underlying logic and reasoning need to be exposed for what they >>are: Dogmatic rejection of carefully vetted witness testimony. >And speaking of the Mansfield case and the aforementioned >"fireball" explanation, I would like to follow up on that a bit. >He made the contention in his book that this case was either a f>ireball or a real extraterrestral vehicle; as I put it to him, >"bolide or bona fide." We went back and forth on how long a >bolide can last, but I remember that we agreed that the rate-of- >climb of a Bell UH-1H was a vital yardstick for the duration of t>he event, and we also agreed that the event had to have lasted >at least a minute. When I argued that a minute is a preposterous >amount of time for a bolide event, he countered with the example >of an occurence in, I believe it was Wyoming in the seventies, >where a bolide was captured on movie film for approximately 26 >seconds. >Now 26 seconds is not a minute, but I'll concede that it is >startlingly long for such an event. I put it on my things-to-do >list to determine once and for all what the extreme limit is for >the duration of a bolide event - my thinking being, if I can put >"fireball" outside the realm of possibility, then I'll have PJK >strung up by his own words. >Alas, I never got around to it... so, here goes..... >First, is anyone here aware of the details of the Wyoming event? >Second, does anyone know what the outside limit is for the >duration of a bolide? >Along these lines, someone here recently posted a nasa.gov >article about "earthgrazer" meteors, and on a lark I decided to >email the author with my questions. (The emails are on my other >computer, otherwise I'd post them here). He told me that >earthgrazers - which PJK and I agreed the Mansfield "fireball" >would have been, since it disappeared well above the horizon - >generally last 2-3 seconds, with an extreme of about 5-7 >seconds. When I described the Wyoming incident, he was fairly >confident that it had to have been an article of space junk, >which he said can hang around in the atmosphere for some time. >He said such occurrences generally take place in the early >evening. Now, if I recall the Wyoming film, it did not resemble >a space junk re-entry, which I have seen before, and it didn't >seem to be in the evening. >I guess what I'm leading up to is, are we certain the Wyoming >event is an IFO? If it _was_ a bolide, then is it possible the >Mansfield case's 1 minute duration is also within the limit? And >if the Wyoming event was _not_ a bolide, and wasn't space junk, >is it possible that PJK was attempting to debunk a UFO... by >referring to another UFO? I tackled this question m any years ago in reference to the Remarkable Meteor case (USS Supply sighting) described at: http://brumac.8k.com/RemarkableMeteors/RemarkableMeteors.html That article has a considerable meteor analysis. What follows below is a brief abstract from that long article: ______________________ A good question to ask at this point would be, what is the longest duration that one might expect to see a meteor? I answered this question some 25 years ago at a time when the Coyne-helicopter case (October, 1973) was being debated. Since Greenwood referred to the 1972 fireball meteor, let's use it as an example. (It was also used by Philip Klass as an example of a long-duration meteor in the Coyne-helicopter case discussion.) It became visible when it was about 90 km high. At it's lowest it was about 60 km high. This was a "skipping meteor" which passed through the upper atmosphere of the earth, glowed, and then "bounced off" the atmosphere and continued its travels after having suffered a severe deviation from its initial track in space. Now imagine, as before, a straight line (as a reasonable approximation to the path of the meteor) cutting through a circle (making a chord), where the circle represents the "layer" of atmosphere at 90 km altitude (above the circular earth). The closest distance of the straight line to the surface is 60 km. One can show using geometry that the _straight line path_ from 90 km above the surface down to 60 km and back up to 90 km is a distance of about 1250 km. The 1972 fireball traveled at roughly 14.5 km/sec on average (52,000 km/hr or ). (Note: the 1972 meteor approached the earth from behind at about 10 km/sec, but then accelerated as it got closer and was traveling at about 14.5 km/sec relative to the surface of the earth at its closest approach.) If someone had been able to watch it from the beginning to the end of its glow, he would have seen it for about 1250/14.5 = 86 seconds. This hypothetical observer would have to have been exactly under the center of the glowing path, i.e., under the location of the closest approach to the earth, and he would have seen it traveling from horizon to horizon in 86 seconds. A space satellite observed the meteor in infra-red light. Analysts calculated from the satellite data that the total glow path was actually about 1500 km and the duration of visibility to the satellite was a bit over 100 seconds. This is the duration value quoted by Greenwood as if a ground observer could have seen it for that duration, but, of course, no ground observer could have seen it that long. (This satellite was able to detect the infra-red glow before the meteor became visible to the naked eye and then the satellite was able to "see" the meteor after it cooled and was no longer visible to the the naked eye.) The actual ground observations ranged up to 1 minute with most of the observations being 40 seconds or less. The famous film of this fireball lasts "only" 26 seconds. One concludes from this analysis that it is virtually impossible to see a meteor _from horizon to horizon_ that lasts as long as 100 seconds. ___________________________________ To restate the conclusion: if the observer happens to be at the center of the meteor track, i.e., it passes directly over his head and, of course, traveling in a straight line, then _if_ he sees the meteor from horizon to horizon, the duration might exceed 60 seconds, but would not be as long as 100 seconds. This requires excellent visiblity from horizon to horizon. Anything less than horizon to horizon with clear visibility with result in a less period of observation. Further information is given in he above cited article. I might point out for those of you unfamiliar with the USS Supply sighting of 1904, that the three objects or "meteors" were seen for 3 minutes, according to the log (the published report says over 2 minutes).... and during this time the "meteors" traveled from near the horizon to overhead (and appeared to soar upward, traveling directly away from the observers). They were going slowly enough to be seen for about 3 minutes even though they did not travel from horizon to horizon but only halfway ..... truly _remarkable_ meteors!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Wilbert Smith Discusses Communication With Aliens From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:15:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:11:21 -0400 Subject: Wilbert Smith Discusses Communication With Aliens Canadian Government Official Discusses Communication With Aliens www.presidentialufo.com/smith_interview.htm =93In 1950 I was attending a rather slow-moving broadcasting conference in Washington D.C. and having some free time on my hands, I circulated around asking a few questions about flying saucers, which stirred up a hornet=92s nest. I found that the U.S. government had a highly classified project set up to study them, so I reasoned that with so much smoke maybe I should look for the fire.=94 Wilbert Smith, Official Director of the Canadian Government=92s UFO Investigation - 1950-1954 In a just recovered 1961 interview with television station CJOH, the former head of the official Canadian Government UFO investigation, Wilbert Smith, was asked a number of questions about what he had learned during his days of investigating flying saucers for the government. Among the many questions was one about whether or not communication had taken place =93between space people and people of this planet,=94 and if communication had occurred -- how was it done? The question of alien communication addressed to Smith is important, not only because he headed up the official government investigation into UFOs from 1950 -- 1954, but because Smith was one of the foremost communications experts of the day. Smith worked as the chief radio engineer for the Canadian government, going on in 1956 to head up the countries radio regulations department. More importantly, he was in charge of monitoring 50,000 radio frequencies in Canada, and ran the Top Secret =93Radio Ottawa=94 where spies would radio in to intelligence services. Smith=92s reply to the interviewer regarding the subject of talking to aliens was positive. =93Some of the communications have been on a face-to-face basis but I have not been so honored myself. Some of the communications have been by ordinary radio, and I have received a few messages by this means. But by far the majority of the communications are by what we call Tensor Beam transmission, which uses a type of radio with which we are only vaguely familiar, and which I couldn=92t possibly attempt to describe now. However, the mental images of the person wishing to transmit are picked up electrically amplified and modulated into a tensor beam, which is directed to the person to whom the transmission is addressed, and within whose brain the mental images are recreated. The transmissions are therefore very precise, and independent of language. I have had some experience with these transmissions myself and can say that they are like nothing within the conventional experiences of earth people.=94 In the rest of the interview Wilbert Smith discusses what the aliens look like, the effect of the extraterrestrial idea on religion, secrecy, and a number of other topics. It should be noted in the interview that Wilbert Smith never used the word UFO. This is because from the very beginning Smith was aware that the phenomena was extraterrestrial, and that UFO was a word developed by the U.S.A.F. in 1952 to muddy the waters for investigators. According to Smith=92s son Jim Smith, shortly before his death in 1962 Wilbert called his son in, and told him that he had in fact seen the alien bodies from a crash, and had been shown a crashed flying saucer outside of Washington D.C., while conducting the official Canadian investigation. The 1961 interview continues. Q: Do you believe that flying saucers are real? A: Yes. I am convinced that they are just as real and tangible as most things we deal with in our every day lives. Q: Why do you think they are real? A: Because thousands of people have seen them, many under circumstances, which virtually preclude misinterpretation, many of these sightings have been coordinated with radar fixes. Photographs have been taken and physical evidence has been accumulated. Q: Have you ever seen a flying saucer yourself? A: I have seen several objects which I concluded were flying saucers simply because they couldn=92t be anything else. Q: Would you please describe such a sighting? A; Last year, I think it was August 16, (Echo 1 was launched August 12, 1960) right after the launching of Echo I, my wife and I, and a couple of friends, were outside sky-gazing to see the passage of Echo 1 which was due about ten minutes to nine. At about a quarter to nine a bright object came from the south at an apparent speed about twice the expected speed of echo, and traveled almost due north. As it approached, and when viewed through binoculars, it appeared to be a steady brilliant white light with a flashing electric blue light superimposed on it. At first the rate of flashing was not apparent as it was above the flicker frequency, but as it approached the frequency of the flicker slowed down until it was about one per second as it passed overhead. As it proceeded northward it suddenly made a sharp right hand turn and headed due west and disappeared into the western sky, with the blue light still flashing. There was no noise and the apparent speed was about the same as a jet flying at 10,000 feet. About five or so minutes later Echo 1 sailed majestically into view from the southwest as much less than half the apparent speed of the previous object. Q: Where you able to see any shape of the object? A: No. Just a bright white light, with the intense blue light with it. Q: You said earlier that there was physical evidence, and that pictures existed supporting the reality of flying saucers. Would you please explain? A: There have been over a hundred books and very many magazines published in the last ten or twelve years, the majority of which are predominately accounts of sightings, pictures, and descriptions of the physical evidence, which has accumulated. In the limited time available I could not possibly cover more than one or two such cases. However, here are a couple of interesting ones. (Two book quotes) Q: Have you, yourself actually handled any material believed to be from a flying saucer? A: If by that you mean material substance showing evidence of fabrication through intelligent effort and not originating on this planet, I have. But I cannot say from my own knowledge that it was ever part of a flying saucer. Unfortunately, most of my contacts in this direction were through classified channels, which for some particular reason, which I could never fathom, insisted in =93Classifying=94 these matters, and I am not at liberty to discuss them further. Q: What about pictures? A: I am naturally very skeptical about picd=F2=BF=BF=93@=CBtures since they are so very easy to fake, so unless I have taken the picture myself and participated in its developing, I would not like to offer any of them as authentic. I have taken a few myself, but I=92m afraid that they are not very impressive. There are however, many pictures available, which, whether they are fakes or not, do check quite well with the many visual descriptions. Here are a few. (Shows a few photographs) Q: How long have you been studying flying saucers? A: I suppose I have always known that there were other intelligent beings in the universe other than ourselves, and that sooner or later they would visit us. In 1947 when the first wide spread publicity on flying saucers came about, I thought this was something worth thinking about and maybe investigating. However, I didn=92t get around to active participation until 1950, when I was attending a rather slow-moving broadcasting conference in Washington D.C. and having some free time on my hands, I circulated around asking a few questions about flying saucers, which stirred up a hornet=92s nest. I found that the U.S. government had a highly classified project set up to study them, so I reasoned that with so much smoke maybe I should look for the fire. So I set about gathering as much sighting data as I could get a hold of and analyzing it, from which I concluded that there was a 91% probability that the saucers were real, and a 60% probability that they were alien craft of some kind. Q: What is the =93official=94 view of flying saucers? A: I don=92t even know if there is one, in Canada. In the United States there have been so many contradictory statements made that I doubt if anyone could sort them out. However, I don=92t think it really matters much anyway because the saucers are here and our opinions regarding them are not going to change matters. It has been my experience that no one who takes even a little time to study the evidence available publicly remains skeptic very long. This is quite apart from those who have had access and studied the larger files of evidence collected by private and semi-official organizations. Q: How widespread is the interest in flying saucers? A: I really don=92t know, but I think that most people are prepared to take them in their stride, along with atomic energy and earth circling satellites. I have encountered very few really died in the wool skeptics. Judging from the large number of saucer clubs, one or two in each city, and the number of publications available I would say that the interest was considerable. Q: Since you say that you have been active in the study of flying saucers for over ten years, what have you found out about them? A: that is a tall order and would take a good many hours. Most of it is available in reliable bookstores anyway, so I only propose to cover the highlights here. There is much evidence that people who build and fly flying saucers are people very much like us. They have been seen on many occasions and there are many claims of personal contact having been established with them. Communications with these people tell us that they are our distant relatives; that we are descendants of their colonists on this planet, and that they still regard us as brothers even though we don=92t often act like it. There is much evidence that the technology of these people is quite a bit ahead of ours, and that through study of the behavior of the saucers and from the alleged communications we have been able to piece together some of this technology, and it is amazing to say the least. We are informed that these people are really civilized, in that they regard all men as brothers; that they do not have wars, and live under conditions of personal freedom of which we cannot conceive. Q: Have you any indication of why the saucers are here at this time? A: there is much evidence in history, legend and the Bible, that flying saucers have visited this planet on many occasions in the past and that the present visitation is nothing new; it is simply a bit more intense than in the past and we have better news dissemination means now. I think that these people from elsewhere are concerned with our playing with atomic energy, and about our plans for space travel and interplanetary exploration and conquest. I am sure that they do not hold us in very high esteem, and are worried about what we might do if we ever got loose in space armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons. Q: Have you any ideas about how flying saucers operate? A: As I said before, the technology of these people from elsewhere is quite a bit ahead of ours, and they have an understanding of the realities of this universe that we are just approaching. We have started at the effects and speculated towards the causes, whereas they started at the cause and worked towards the effects, with the result that they are not nearly so self-limited in science as we are. Our observations indicate that the saucers can hover indefinitely in one place, or they can dart off with very high accelerations. Also, they can change direction quickly; all this with utter disregard of the laws of inertia, as we understand them. From this we conclude that they must understand these laws better that we do and have found ways of getting around the situation. Our own work along these lines, aided by tips from outside, indicates that the trick is through gravity control wherein the earth=92s gravity field is bent to accommodate the action required. Q: That sounds quite technical, but could you explain it further. A: I=92m afraid not, and I am sure that you will appreciate the reasons, which should be fairly obvious. Q: I know this may be a hot question, but how do you think flying saucers affect religion? A: As far as I can determine, these people from elsewhere are a great deal more religious than we are. They believe in a Supreme Creator, the brotherhood and divinity of Man, and a plan for the evolution of all. To these people, their religion is a matter of daily reality, not just Sunday profession, and they certainly seem to practice what we preach. I can find no contradictions with any of the religions of this planet. Q: Do you have any idea where these people come from? A: I am informed trough the many alleged contacts that these people come from everywhere; that there is no place in the universe where men can live that he does not live. Q: How about traveling about in the universe? Doesn=92t it take a terribly long time? A: I am afraid our ideas about certain things are due for a severe revision in the not to distant future. I am informed that time is not at all what we think it is, but is in fact variable. Also, that the velocity of light is not at all a limiting velocity. It merely appears so to us because we can=92t see any faster. I understand that these people from elsewhere can and do travel about a great deal and I=92m sure they don=92t take years and years to do it. Q: You seem to have a great deal of inside information about these things; what are you doing about it? Are you bringing it to the attention of the scientists? A: I have made no secret of the information with which I am entrusted, and will gladly pass it on to anyone who is sincerely interested and wants to learn. But I feel that I have no obligation whatsoever to force this knowledge on anyone or to interfere in his or her chosen pattern of thinking. I know these things to be true, and all the opinions to the contrary aren=92t going to change things. When the time is right they will be accepted. In the meantime, I am NOT a missionary. I am concentrating my efforts on increasing my own understanding and the understanding of those who work with me in this area. _______________________________ I wish to thank Nick Balaskas who recovered this interview from the files of the late Wilbert Smith. The Smith files are held in the nation=92s capitol at the University of Ottawa. Further Wilbert Smith quotes on communicating with aliens, crashed flying saucers, the government cover-up, hardware, and a host of other UFO related topics can be found at: http://www.presidentialufo.com/quotes.htm --
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 UFO Books For Sale From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:24:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:13:01 -0400 Subject: UFO Books For Sale Greetings All, I'm cleaning out my current home in lieu of moving to another. I have the following books for sale - make me an offer. I would like to sell them all at once but will entertain offers for single books. I'll even throw in Communion and The Day After Roswell [you could use them to prop up that table or bookshelf that sits on an uneven floor]. Buyer pays shipping. All books are paperback, all slaes final, please e-mail me privately at ufowatchdog@earthlink.net Thanks! Is Someone Up There? by Dale White - 1969 Encounter Cases From Flying Saucer Review edited by Charles Bowen - 1977 The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry by J. Allen Hynek (first printing) - 1974 The Interrupted Journey by John G. Fuller (first printing?) - 1967 Flying Saucers: The Startling Evidence of the Invasion from Outer Space by Coral E. Lorenzen (fifth printing) - 1962 We Are Not Alone by Walte Sullivan - 1966 Extraterrestrial Intervention: The Evidence by Jacques Bergier and the editors of INFO - 1975 The UFO Files by Jerome Clark - 1996
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 01:58:48 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:14:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Lawton Triangles Hoax - Gates >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:11:27 -0400 >Subject: Lawton Triangles Hoax >The Lawton Triangles "sightings" are now admitted hoaxes. See: >http://brumac.8k.com/LawtonTriangle/Lawtontriangle.html. >I have added a second addendum to the original article that >describes how the hoax was 'discovered' and the significance of >this for the UFO community. Bruce, Thank you for presenting this information. Its a breath of fresh air from the skeptibunkers who won't admit when their explainations and storys are bogus, to some in the pro UFO community who won't admit Hoax. You have the courage and honestly to do that. Thank you once again Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 365 From: Edoardo Russo <edoardo.russo@libero.it> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:17:32 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:20:28 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 365 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 365- 13 AUGUST 2002 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) Contents: - UFOs: as Silly Season News - Italian Sightings In July - The New Book by G. Stilo UFOs AS SILLY SEASON NEWS Summer, the time for UFOs, at least in the mass media. Especially, however, it is a time for the shameless recycling of old news =93passed off=94 as new. In fact, there has been a sudden increase in the number of UFO newsclippings culled from Italian newspapers and gathered for the Italian Center for UFO Studies by the specialized agency "L=92Eco della Stampa" (Echos from the Press) from the just 22 items during the month of June (and a monthly average of 36 items for the first half of the year) to the good 75 items published in the month of July alone, with a trend that continues unchanged in the first week of August. [www.arpnet.it/ufo/ecotot.htm; collaboration by Gian Paolo Grassino.] But we=92re not always talking about =93new=94 headlines here: rather, according to an agency news release that was widely circulated on 28 July, 80% of Italians believe in UFOs (or even...they have =93seen=94 aliens), according to what was reported by Air Press (which in reality limited itself to re-releasing, as a news piece, the survey by Cirm polling institute for the magazine "Quark" and already widely publicized last month), alongside the equally-sensational =93news=94 which the Italian Air Force lumps together under the heading of reported sightings. [Adn-Kronos, 28 July, reprinted in numerous newspapers on the following day; UFO-Italia, 29 July; collaboration by Gildo Person=E8] And let=92s not talk about television: the press offices of the national broadcasts have done promos on some new TV specials on UFOs, but these soon turned out to be mere reruns of old broadcasts (as in the case of "Stargate" on 4 August, on La7) or re-edited airing outtakes =93from the vaults=94 (as with a "Speciale Misteri") by Studio Aperto, which was dedicated to UFOs on 5 August, on Italy 1, and had clips of interviews of the day alternating helter-skelter with other old interviews conducted ten years ago with the same experts). [Collaboration by Renzo Cabassi, Gian Paolo Grassino, Roberto Labanti, Gildo Person=E8, Paolo Toselli; UFO-Italia, 4 through 8 August] ITALIAN SIGHTINGS IN JULY Despite the increase in headlines in the mass media, there has been hardly any change in the number of actual observations of UFO phenomena during the first part of this summer, which refutes the other commonly-held notion that this hot season of the year is precisely when more UFOs are reportedly seen. In a curiously opposite yet significant parallel with last year - when there occurred instead a veritable wave of sightings (www.arpnet.if/ufo/casi2001.htm) unaccompanied by an increase in published news reports appearing in newspapers - so it was that in July, there was hardly any change in the number of cases collected by the working group on case histories activated by the Italian Center for UFO Studies for the purpose of monitoring in real-time reports of UFOs in Italy. There were, in fact, 46 sightings catalogued for the previous month of July, compared with 43 cases in May and 41 in June (and as opposed to a mean 38 monthly reports during the first half of the year). From the standpoint of geographic distribution, the Veneto region =93weights heavier,=94 such that, with 30 sightings, it has turned out to be the third most-visited region in this year, following Lombardy and Emilia-Romagna (each with 43 cases). [www.arpnet.if/ufo/casi2002.htm; communication by Giorgio Abraini] THE NEW BOOK BY G. STILO A September release has been confirmed for the anticipated, new book by Giuseppe Stilo, dedicated to the worldwide (and Italian) sightings wave of 1952. Entitled "Ultimatum alla Terra" (=93Ultimatum to Earth=94) and published by UPIAR, (www.arpnet.if/ufo/stilo52l.htm) the volume picks up from the preceding "Scrutate i cieli" (=93Watch the Skies=94), (www.arpnet.if/ufo/scrutate.htm) published in 2000 and dedicated to the prior, great wave of 1950. Its basis is formed on archive material collected by CISU "Operation Origins", an archives research project Stilo is coordinator of. As with the first volume, this one also focuses its attention on the Italian scene, gathering an enormous (and heretofore partially unknown) amount of documentary material on that page of UFO history concerning our country. Suffice it to say that the number of Italian sightings presented (and analyzed) in the book amounts to 218, compared with the 120 that had been previously catalogued. But the author did not stop at our national borders, and as he did for 1950 he also offers an expansive, international overview of that memorable year, shining the spotlight on some examinations of specific arguments, and featuring data and information never-before published in Italy. The resulting volume totals as many as 520 pages and is sold on a pre-publication offer on the UPIAR Internet site (www.upiar.com). The discount offer will conclude at the end of August. [Communication by Gian Paolo Grassino] Collaborators on this edition were: Giorgio Abraini, Renzo Cabassi, Gian Paolo Grassino, Roberto Labanti, Gildo Person=E8 and Paolo Toselli. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance IT-EN Translator/Proofreader 1123 Revere Beach Pky., # 12 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++ 1.781.485.1683, Fax: ++ 1.781.485.1684 ICQ: 110502923, E-mail: gjpresto@mediaone.net Webpage: http://profiles.yahoo.com/italoman9 - - - (c) 2002 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Roswell Death? From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:09:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 21:22:45 -0400 Subject: Roswell Death? ---------- From: fort@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: fort@yahoogroups.com Date: 18 Aug 2002 18:04:30 -0000 Message: 6 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:20:41 -0000 From: J. Fisher Subject: Roswell death Does anyone know if detailed informaton is available about the untimely death of Congressman Steven Schiff, of New Mexico. Schiff was hot on the trail of the Roswell mystery when he died of a very malignant cancer. Have his medical records ever been made public? J. Fisher
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:51:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 16:52:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:45:40 -0500 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. >But of course he was a lot closer than you or I will ever be. >Given whom to credit here - you or the admiral - I'd say it's no >contest. No, Camara was not there, he was simply going by what his subordinates told him in a very sketchy report which is available on the CUFOS website. I don't know anything about the internal politics of the Brazilian Navy, or indeed Brazil, at the time. Maybe President Kubitschek was a bit of a UFO buff and the naval guys wanted to keep on the right side of him. Has been known! But, as Jerry would say, whatever, the evidence is there for anyone to read. I see no reason why the Brazilian Navy report on Trindade should be taken any more uncritically than the US Air Force report on Roswell of the RAF report on Rendlesham. Surely you are not claiming, Jerry, that military reports should be accepted simply because they happen to agree with you? And I know what you're going to say, this means that the Brazilian Government was the only one in the entire history of the known universe to cover up anti-UFO evidence - assuming these statements from non- witnesses that Jerry demands, actually exist. Maybe, but I rather doubt that actually, if the alternative is to say that their Naval Intelligence Unit is a load of rubbish. But as he is so fond of reminding us, we are a long way away in space and time, so none of us know what may or may not have been going on in the Brazilian Navy All we have to go on are the available documents, and as anyone who reads them will soon see, they are thin stuff indeed. I have said this ad nauseam, and I will not repeat it until some new material is available (and Richard Hall's cuttings are certainly not new material. They are second, third, or fourth hand accounts), we have no direct evidence from anyone except two people who are known to be associates of the photographer prior to the incident. We are nowhere near the "48 witnesses" claimed in Jerry's encyclopedias. Perhaps, if he's now managed to get his material together (and no criticism if he hasn't, I know how disruptive a house move can be), he might be able to tell us where this figure came from. -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 18 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:27:48 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:58:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Young >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:40:25 -0700 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:52:59 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>Bob Young argues by fiat that Non potest, ergo non est (It can't >>be, therefore it isn't). Witnesses couldn't have seen what they >>said they saw, since there is no such thing as a true UFO. His >>attempts to convert Ravenna into Venus and the Ohio helicopter >>case into a fireball border on the hilarious, except that his >>underlying logic and reasoning need to be exposed for what they >>are: Dogmatic rejection of carefully vetted witness testimony. >And speaking of the Mansfield case and the aforementioned >"fireball" explanation, I would like to follow up on that a bit. >I do not have any of my references here in Show Low, but I >remember an exchange I had with PJK about this one. >He made the contention in his book that this case was either a >fireball or a real extraterrestral vehicle; as I put it to him, >"bolide or bona fide." We went back and forth on how long a >bolide can last, but I remember that we agreed that the rate-of- >climb of a Bell UH-1H was a vital yardstick for the duration of >the event, and we also agreed that the event had to have lasted >at least a minute. When I argued that a minute is a preposterous >amount of time for a bolide event, he countered with the example >of an occurence in, I believe it was Wyoming in the seventies, >where a bolide was captured on movie film for approximately 26 >seconds. >Now 26 seconds is not a minute, but I'll concede that it is >startlingly long for such an event. I put it on my things-to-do >list to determine once and for all what the extreme limit is for >the duration of a bolide event - my thinking being, if I can put >"fireball" outside the realm of possibility, then I'll have PJK >strung up by his own words. <snip> >First, is anyone here aware of the details of the Wyoming event? Jim: Please see uncle Phil's delightful little paperback, UFOs The Public Decieved, p. 151. Also, "A Meteorite That Missed the Earth" by Luigi G. Jacchia, Sky & Telescope, July, 1974, pp. 4-8. Also see Nature, February 15, 1974, p. 449. The fireball was on August 10, 1972 and was observed from Utah to Montana and Alberta. "...after dazzling thousands of astonished spectators for well over a minute, it left the atmosphere to continue its travel around the sun, in an orbit somewhat modified by the gravitational pull of the earth during the brief encounter," the author wrote. The object was observed by a satellite infrared radiometer and this was combined with a ground observation to determine its orbit. The length of this path was about 1,500 kms and took 101 seconds to traverse. Dr. Richard E. McCrosky, head of the Prairie Network, who had computed several hundred orbits of bright fireballs, remarked that the orbit is only a little unusual. Tough luck. >Second, does anyone know what the outside limit is for the >duration of a bolide? >Along these lines, someone here recently posted a nasa.gov >article about "earthgrazer" meteors, and on a lark I decided to >email the author with my questions. (The emails are on my other >computer, otherwise I'd post them here). He told me that >earthgrazers - which PJK and I agreed the Mansfield "fireball" >would have been, since it disappeared well above the horizon - Most meteors do this. The key thing is that the meteor's radiant (or origin point for the path), not is disappearance, is at or just above the horizon. >generally last 2-3 seconds, with an extreme of about 5-7 >seconds. I've seen earth grazers with these times, notably last November during the Leonid shower, including one which crossed half the sky. The 1972 object was much slower than a Leonid meteor, only about 10 km/sec, relative to the Earth's speed. In other words, it was coming up from behind at a velocity of 34.8 Kms /sec and its relative speed was low. It also was inclined only 15 degrees to the Ecliptic where most asteroids are found and at its most distant point was 2.3 times the Earth's distance from the Sun. Nowadays its would be called a Near Earth Object. >When I described the Wyoming incident, he was fairly >confident that it had to have been an article of space junk, >which he said can hang around in the atmosphere for some time. >He said such occurrences generally take place in the early >evening. Don't know what this would mean, reentries can happen at any hour. Satellites, though, are visible by reflection within a couple of hours of sunset or sunrise, when they are not in the Earth's shadow. This may have been what he meant, but it wasn't an orbiting satellite. >Now, if I recall the Wyoming film, it did not resemble >a space junk re-entry, which I have seen before, In the sense that they usually fragment. >and it didn'tseem to be in the evening. It was in early afternoon. >I guess what I'm leading up to is, are we certain the Wyoming >event is an IFO? If it _was_ a bolide, then is it possible the >Mansfield case's 1 minute duration is also within the limit? It is. >And if the Wyoming event was _not_ a bolide, and wasn't space >junk, is it possible that PJK was attempting to debunk a UFO >by referring to another UFO? Well, if you want to consider all meteors which have not resulted in a found meteorite to be UFOs, then go ahead. I'll help turn all UFO investigators into meteor counters and hunters. It's fun. It's educational. It might even help to advance science a little bit. But it'll probably never find a flying saucer. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 19 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:24:56 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:29:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 23:26:32 +0100 >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 02:05:16 EDT >>Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >>>>Any witness to anything _except_ UFO or UFO related abduction is >>>>considered to be dependable, reliable, and good. However if the >>>>same witness claimed to have also seen a UFO skeptics would >>>>instantly tell us about the unreliability of witness, why it is >>>>a hoax, misidentification of natural phenomena and so on and >>>>should be disregarded for various asundry reasons. >I'm so pleased that there are so many people telling UFO >sceptics what they're supposed to think. If you just make things >up like this, it saves having to deal with real people and theur >*real* views. The simple fact is John that if a witness goes up to a skeptibunker and says I saw a meteor, car crash, or whatever the skeptibunkers will not apply the same standards of proof, or criticism to those people that they do to a person who says "I saw a UFO." Then we would hear drivial about how any claim to "UFO" requires some higher forms of proof, etc etc. >>>If you had actually read the report of the case - easily >>>available on the Internet even five thosand miles away in >>>Britain - you will have seen that the police did not rely solely >>>on the eyewitness evidence of the little girl. This was >>>valuable, but it served to lead them to DNA evidence which >>>appears to be the basis of their case. >>Actually if you had seen the various excerpts of the interviews, >>you would have seen the sheriff admit that he made the arrest >>_before_ any alleged DNA match. Meaning he didn't rely upon so >>called DNA evidence to make the arrest. >Obviously he made the arrest before he made the DNA match. How >else would he have been able to get the suspect's DNA sample? Glad you finally admitted that. That the arrest was based on eyewitness testimony, not so called scientific testimony. >>>No UFO case has evidence one hundredth as convincing as forensic >>>DNA evidence. >>The basis for the arrest wasn't the DNA evidence, at least >>according to the law enforcement folks. >No, but I'm sure the basis for the charge, and the evidence in >the subsequent case will rely heavily on the DNA samples. The basis for the arrest and charge was eyewitness testimony. >>>>Police and other law enforcement don't seem to mind using, and >>>>relying upon witness testimony. The skeptibunkers will probably >>>>have an elaborate tale about why this is all different then the >>>>sighting of a UFO. >Police seldom rely solely on witness testimony. Without other >forensic evidence, an eyewitness report on its own will seldom >stand up in court. Thats an inaccurate statement. Eyewitness testimony does stand up in court and is used for convictions and acquitals. >>>Yes, we're skeptibunkers, so you don't have to bother putting a >>>case up against us. Just using the word as a mantra is, >>>apparently, enough to demolish the critic's case. How >>>convenient. >>In the drivel and deflection, I see you are still unable to come >>up with any kind of story as to why a 5 year old girls witness >>testimony should be considered reliable (point, I consider her >>testimony to be reliable) but witness testimony involving UFO >>are instantly dismissed, yawned and burped at by the >>skeptibunker crowd. >The girls evidence was proven - repeat, proven - reliable by the >subsequent forensic evidence. I don't know if there are any >lawyers on this list, but I'd be interested to read their views >on the chances of a conviction in this case, based solely on the >evidence of the little girl. That forensic evidence was only tested in _one_ repeart _one_ lab, not independently verified and the people doing the testing in essence works for the prosecution. Since you seem to have no problem with that, shall we talk about some UFO case and only the analysis that comes from that say pro UFO side? ><snip> >>>>The bottom line question to the skepti bunkers: Is witness >>>>testimony to be considered reliable whether it involves an >>>>abduction of a little girl or UFO related? Remember what ever >>>>criteria of reliability for witness testimony can also be >>>>applied to UFO witnesses as well. >I think I've already answered this : >>>Witness testimony is to be considered reliable when it is backed >>>up by solid evidence, as it appears to have been in this case, >>>thanks to good police work. >>Since you do apparently do like eyewitness, please explain under >>what standards of testimony and proof (remember all the police >>essentially had was the testimony from the little girl and a >>drawing) would be required from a witness in a UFO case. Further >>do you consider witness testimony in UFO cases to be reliable? >>If a witness came to you and said they saw a meteor in the sky, >>describe what they saw would you be inclined to accept, or >>reject the witness testimony? As I recall you fingered the Travis Walton case, with the cautious cavet that if pressed against a wall you would mention the hoax word. Essentially the word of eye witnesses with no so called scientific or forensic evidence of any kind. >If a person came up to me and told me they had seen a meteor I >would be likely to believe them, in the absence of any Which is my point exactly. If a person saw a meteor you would likely believe them. If a person saw a UFO you would likely disbelieve them. >information to the contrary. However if I knew the person had >previously lied about seeing astronomical phenomena, or if they >had then said the meteor had spun round in circles and whistled >"Yankee Doodle", I would be less inclined to believe them. >>Its been my observation (I may be wrong here and hope John >>surprises me with his answer to the earlier questions) that the >>skeptibunker crowd embraces all witness testimony as long as it >>doesn't involve UFO. Once UFO enters they start raising the >>bar/standards of proof. >Not knowing what is meant by this stupid phrase "skeptibunker", >nor recognising who it is meant to apply to, I am unable to >answer your question on their behalf. I personally am prepared >to embrace all witness testimony which can be independently >confirmed. My standards for such confirmation may be rather >higher than some other peoples'. So how was the Travis Walton case independently confirmed? Was it because a skeptic paid for the lie detector tests and they all passed or what? >>Which reminds me..... Has anybody out there actually heard/seen >>any of our skeptics and skeptibunkers ever, ever, ever dispute >>the testimony of people who say saw a meteor? >What about the early 19th century scientist who are supposed to >have refused to believe eyewitness reports of meteors? This is >constantly being trotted out as an example of scientific myopia. Do you know any skeptics or skeptibunkers who would currently dispute the testimony of somebody who said they saw a meteor? I would have to say the answer is no. If somebody comes up to a skeptibunker and says "I saw a fireball" their testimony would be gulliably accepted, never questioned and never challenged or put to the same standards of proof that the same skeptibunkers apply to people who say "I saw a UFO.." >>I mean after all >>unless the meteor hits the ground, there is no "physical >>evidence" that could be sampled, tested, in a lab i.e. like the >>DNA evidence so other then the witness testimony, there is no >>other evidence that can verfy. If the answer has something to do >>with multiple people seeing the same thing, then if multiple >>people report say a daylight disk is that acceptable? >Ah, well, we're back to Trindade Island again, and - well, it's >getting very late, well past my bedtime ... Convient trying to use TI to dodge the question. Again that being Unless a meteor hits the ground there is no "physical evidence" that can be troted over to a lab or labs to be sampled, tested and independently verified. So other then the "eye witness" report we have no other verifiable evidence. That being said will skeptibunkers belive the eye witness testimony of a person who claimed to have seen a daylight disk at close range? We both know the answer is an emphatic _no_ because the skeptibunkers will start blathering about having actual physical evidence, actual samples, etc etc. Cheers, Robert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 19 Three Exsanguinated Goats in Cachi, Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 07:49:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:41:14 -0400 Subject: Three Exsanguinated Goats in Cachi, Argentina SOURCE: El Tribuno (Cachi, Argentina) DATE: Friday, August 16, 2002 **Cachi: Surprising eyewitness accounts** THREE EXSANGUINATED GOATS AT THE FOOT OF EL NEVADO **Veterinarian does not know what the event can be ascribed to; Sheriff believes in puma attack** Juan Antonio Abarz=FAa El Tribuno The discovery of three large dead and completely exsanguinated goats, with their flesh intact and completely black, has caused concern among the residents of Fuerte Alto, located some three kilometers west of this Chalquian locale, on the slopes of the towering Nevado de Cachi. The find, which rekindles the "Chupacabras" myth, took place on Wednesday at first ligth by Maria Laura Liendro, the animals' owner. One of her nephews had told her that the night before [the goats] had been attacked "by a strange being some 80 cm. tall, with a short tail and dense fur." The woman notified the police immediately, and a swift investigation began. "We are certain that there is no need to attribute this event to strange matters. All of the signs point to the animals having been attacked by one or more pumas, something which is quite common in the area, " said Tomas Oscar Lopez, the local sheriff, to El Tribuno reporters, calling the case closed. However, his conclusions were rebutted by veterinarian Carlos Arjona, who also visited Fuerte Alto to check the animals. "This is evidently not the work of a feline. I don't know what could have caused the goats' deaths, but I can say that I do not agree with the police estimations. I inspected three carcasses and found strange things. In two of the carcasses I was able to see puncture marks that pierced the animals' jugulars. They appeared to have been made with very sharp and large canines, to judge by the depth they achieved," indicated the professional. "The other carcass showed signs of similar lesions, but in the sternum, evidently made when the animals were alive. Likewsie, there were the marks of two exceedingly long, sharp canines, " explained Arjona. The veterinarian pointed out two extraordinary findings from his analysis: "The animals' flesh had turned completely black and did not have a single drop of blood." Meanwhile, the animals' owner and other local residents have chosen to take their animals to other areas in order to keep attacks on their flocks to become severe, especially when the eyewitness accounts are so startling. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special Thanks to Gloria Coluchi and Mercedes Casas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 19 Ten Sheep Dead in Cachi, Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 08:10:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:46:51 -0400 Subject: Ten Sheep Dead in Cachi, Argentina SOURCE: El Tribuno (Cachi, Argentina) DATE: Friday, August 16, 2002 Ten More Dead Sheep All of the animals were bitten on the neck and there are no clear explanations as to their deaths. Juan Antonio Abarz=FAa de El Tribuno Roque Desiderio Lera could not shake off his amazement yesterday: no sooner had he gotten out of bed, he checked his flock of sheep and faced a terrible surprise: 10 of the animals were dead, and four more struggled for life amid puddles of blood. The events that led to the killings probably took place between the early morning hours and sunrise in the El Quipon area, 3 km north of Cachi, on the banks of the Calchaqui River. Despairing voer the loss of his cattle, the shepherd, age 42, immediately alerted the authorities, who sent out a team to determine the reasons behind the odd and fierce attack. Also in attendance was veterinarian Carlos Arjona, who had examined the carcasses of the three bloodless goats found on Wednesday, showing injuries caused by the strange and prominent incisiors of "an unknown animal" in Fuerte Alto, 5 km west of El Quipon, at the feet of El Nevado de Cachi. These cases add the necessary amount of fuel with which to stoke the flames that feed the Chupacabras myth. In the case involving the goats, despite the expert's opinions and the eyewitness accounts on the facts (one claims having seen a strange hairy biped standing 80 cm tall, and another claimed having found prints of a two-toed animal), Sheriff Tomas Oscar Lopez called the case closed, believing that the deaths had been caused by pumas who descend from higher elevations at this time of year, given the difficulty of finding food due to the intense snowfall. The police is convinced that the animals at El Quipon were attacked by "large dogs", although a tracker and backwoodsman, Ramon Mamani--known for his abilities as a "gaucho" [Argentinean cowboy]--told El Tribuno that "such a theory is impossible." Mamani noted that "the deaths of ten animals and the serious injuries infliced to another for cannot have been produced by one, two, three or four dogs, but at least 20. I know every inch of the hills, gorges and open areas of Cachi, Molinos, and La Poma and have never seen nor heard stories of packs of wild dogs in the area." The tracker, accompanied by UFO researcher Antonio Zuleta--who has colleceted suprising videotapes of UFOs in the Chalquian skies--engaged in a footprint-seeking task to find clues which could unravel the mystery of the slaughter of Roque Desiderio Lera's flock. "We found strange tracks," said the gaucho, "similar to those found at Fuerte Alto, although somewhat smaller (those only measured 12 inches long). I can assure you that they are not dog tracks." Veterinarian Carlos Arjona, however, disputed Mamani's point of view, noting that the tracks belonged to a dog of plantigrade characteristics arising from a deformation. Meanwhile the succession of similar events--in less than a week, a mutilated cow, three bloodless goats, 10 brutally slaughtered goats and four savagely bitten at the neck--have kept the population on the alert, especially those who live in outlying agricultural and livestock regions. Many of them, like Maria Laura Liendro of Fuerte Alto, have chosen to transfer their animals to lower and safer areas. Roque Desiderio Lera has taken a more radical approach: he will remain on guard with his shotgun loaded. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Alicia Rossi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 19 Secrecy News -- 08/19/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:37:30 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:50:55 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/19/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 79 August 19, 2002 ** US DECLASSIFIES DOCUMENTS ON ARGENTINA ** HATFILL, ROSENBERG, FAS AND THE WALL STREET JOURNAL US DECLASSIFIES DOCUMENTS ON ARGENTINA Declassified U.S. documents concerning Argentina's military dictatorship (1976-1983) that were promised to Argentine human rights organizations by then-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright two years ago will be disclosed in Buenos Aires tomorrow (August 20). See "Daran a conocer documentos de los EE.UU. sobre la represion" by Silvana Boschi in Clarin (August 18): http://old.clarin.com/diario/2002/08/18/p-01201.htm The documents are said to consist mainly of declassified cables sent by the U.S. embassy in Buenos Aires to the State Department in Washington during the years of Argentina's brutal dictatorship. They were formally requested under the Freedom of Information Act (with the assistance of the National Security Archive at George Washington University). Last December, when the government of Argentine President Fernando de la Rua fell, the US reportedly expressed hesitation about disclosing the historical documents, arguing that they might exacerbate the climate of instability. But the non-governmental Centro de Estudios Legales y Sociales argued to the contrary that disclosure would contribute to the vigor of Argentine democracy. Eight boxes of declassified documents arrived in Buenos Aires last week in advance of tomorrow's release, the newspaper Pagina 12 reported on August 18. HATFILL, ROSENBERG, FAS AND THE WALL STREET JOURNAL "The Bush administration needs to make sure... the FBI will stop being led around by the Federation of American Scientists." That is the improbable conclusion of a nasty, convoluted opinion article written by Wall Street Journal editor Robert Bartley and published today. Bartley claims to discern an FAS "agenda" going back more than 15 years and culminating in the present ordeal of bioweapons scientist Steven Hatfill, who has been publicly identified as the subject of an FBI investigation in connection with last year's anthrax attacks. "An anthrax outbreak in the U.S. [was] just what the Federation of American Scientists has been waiting for," Bartley states obscenely in the online version of his article "The Hatfill Case: Essential Background": http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/rbartley/?id=110002154 According to Bartley, "Everyone involved understands" that Hatfill was "designated the fall guy" for those attacks "not so much by the FBI but by none other than Barbara Hatch Rosenberg of the FAS." Rosenberg, a scientist at the State University of New York who also chairs the FAS Working Group on Biological Weapons, has been an outspoken critic of the FBI investigation and has publicly and privately advanced her own theories concerning who might have been responsible for the anthrax attacks. For the record, however, "Rosenberg's remarks on this topic do not represent the views of the Federation of American Scientists," wrote FAS President Henry C. Kelly in a letter to the editor of the Hartford Courant published on July 1. Accordingly, the Federation declined to post on its web site a June 2002 analysis by Rosenberg that purported to identify a "likely perpetrator." The Federation obviously encourages its members to provide officials with information and analysis that might be pertinent to the solution of a crime like the anthrax attacks, said Kelly. But "FAS opposes any effort to publicly identify possible suspects or 'persons of interest' outside of a formal law enforcement proceeding and has not published such accusations," said Kelly. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 20 Secrecy News -- 08/20/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:08:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:57:32 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/20/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 80 August 20, 2002 ** DECLASSIFIED ARGENTINA DOCUMENTS PUBLISHED ** HISTORY IN THE SUMMERTIME ** NEW UK PRO RELEASES ** DEFENDING OVERSIGHT DECLASSIFIED ARGENTINA DOCUMENTS PUBLISHED The State Department today released over 4,600 declassified U.S. government documents concerning the 1976 military coup in Argentina and the human abuses rights that ensued during that country's "dirty war." The collection was presented at a press conference in Buenos Aires and posted on the State Department web site: http://foia.state.gov/ A selection of key documents was also published by the National Security Archive along with an initial assessment of their signficance: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB73/index.htm An account of today's press conference is given in "La CONADEP recibio 4.700 documentos confidenciales de EE.UU. sobre la dictadura argentina" in the newspaper Clarin: http://www.clarin.com/ultimo_momento/notas/2002/08/20/m-432270.htm The new release serves as a timely reminder of the contribution that document declassification can make towards rectification of past injustices and the importance of official openness in nurturing civil society. The history of Argentina's "dirty war" was compellingly presented in Martin Edwin Andersen's 1993 book "Dossier Secreto." HISTORY IN THE SUMMERTIME "What prompted the State Department to release the hundreds of declassified documents pertaining to Greece, Turkey and Cyprus from 1964 to 1968 now-- in the middle of the hot summer-- and not later, creating a real political mess in Athens, Ankara and Nicosia?" That is what a querulous reporter wanted to know, referring to the publication last week of Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964-1968, vol. XVI. He posed the question at the August 19 State Department daily press briefing. There is no particular significance in the timing of the release, replied Deputy Spokesman Philip T. Reeker. However, "It gives you something to read at the beach," he said. See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/08/dos081902.html NEW UK PRO RELEASES The latest August 2002 releases from the UK Public Record Office are reported here: http://www.pro.gov.uk/releases/august2002/list.htm DEFENDING OVERSIGHT Many of the steps taken by the government to combat terrorism in the past year are naturally subjects of disagreement and dispute. But what should be beyond debate is the importance of congressional oversight to ensure both the efficacy and the propriety of those steps. That is why the Bush Administration's resistance to congressional oversight is perhaps the single most disturbing aspect of the controversial war on terrorism. "How can we judge whether President Bush and John Ashcroft have acted responsibly when they refuse to put all of the cards out on the table?" asked Steve Chapman in a Chicago Tribune editorial on August 18: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/chi-0208180046aug18.story "The administration's reflexive distaste for accountability to other branches of government is not healthy," the Washington Post observed in an eloquent August 19 editorial. "There is nothing hostile or dangerous in responsible oversight; to the contrary, it is a critical check and balance in our system." See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34014-2002Aug18.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 20 HBCC - Vancouver, British Columbia UFO Video From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 14:45:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:00:08 -0400 Subject: HBCC - Vancouver, British Columbia UFO Video HBCC UFO Research Hi Today I received a package through Fed- Ex from Jaime Maussan a journalist in Mexico. He received the tape from a Mexican surgeon who was on holiday in Vancouver, B.C. last December, 2001. The tape has never been seen before, and I can say it is really interesting. Jamie really did a wonderful job editing the tape for me in which I appreciate very much. The surgeon was traveling across a major bridge in the Vancouver area, he was driving and a companion was video taping the scenery as they had a good view from the bridge. The passenger was shooting tape from the passenger side of the car, and tuned the camera over to the drivers side as the sun was catching the mountains which does look very beautiful. It is early morning on a cool crisp day and as the passenger zoomed in on the mountains a object appeared. Now from what I see, and I am not an expert with images. The object is round and appears to be rotating. The sun catches it well. With no obstruction in the field of view the passenger had while taking the video, the object completely vanished, then reappeared while it traveled along, it again vanished and re- appeared. The passengers in the car did not even see the object until later when they were playing back their holiday footage. The object I would say would have been a good size, due to the distance away when the video was taken. It also traveled at a good clip. So I am going to get some stills made from the video in the next while and will then post the images of this object. Also for anyone not getting this, I should also have a good photo from some campers who took a photo of a strange object here in northern B.C. I am told that they were very surprised when they saw it, but thought quick enough to grab their camera and fire of some shots. So I will also post these for your examination. Also Ed from Palouse sent some more photos to me, so I will update my site with these new images as well. Lots going on folks. Keep those eyes open. Take care Brian HBCC UFO Research
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 21 UFO Sightings OZ Files 21.08.02 From: Diane Harrison <auforn@hypermax.net.au> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:47:21 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:26:02 -0400 Subject: UFO Sightings OZ Files 21.08.02 Hi everyone I hope you enjoy these reports Australian sightings compiled by Australian Researchers. From Diane ______________________________________________ UFO Sightings OZ Files 21.08.02 UFO Reports April - 2002 Compiled by Brian Richards ASPR/UFORUM(WA) UFO Sighting Gosnells WA. Date: 17 August 2002 Day: Saturday Time: 10pm Gosnells, Location: Gosnells WA. Report: Mr X reported seeing 4 bright orange lights over Gosnells. They made no sound. At first 3 were seen in a stack, one above the other to be joined by a fourth off to the right. They came from the west initially and were seen for about 15 minutes. At times the lights were stationary, sometimes moving. Three eventually headed north, the fourth northeast and in a burst of speed disappeared from view. The witness would not accept they could have been hot air balloons. UFO Sighting Armadale , WA. 16th August 2002. Date: Day: Friday Time: 9.30pm Location: Armadale , WA. Report: A woman and nine witnesses watched two bright orange golf ball sized (AAL) lights travel silently towards them from the North. A third light, much brighter and larger came from the West and caught up with the first two. It then hovered stationary for about five minutes looking like a planet before moving away with the other two to the Northwest. The main witness claims to have seen orange lights every night this week at varying times. It is pure speculation as to what they are, but all witnesses rule out the hot air balloons hypothesis. UFO Sighting Beverley, WA. Date: 10th August 2002. Day: Saturday Time: 5.15 am. Location: Beverley, WA. Report: The witness, is a store owner and holder of a private pilot's licence. He watched a brilliant white star-like object hovering in the NNE early morning sky at about 45 degrees elevation. It slowly moved North, rising slightly and just faded out. The witness was convinced it was not the light from a conventional aircraft and couldn't explain away the sighting. UFO Sighting Armadale, WA. Date: 3 August 2002 Day: Saturday Time:11.40 p.m Location: Armadale WA Have located the below caller Mr A of Armadale WA who in fact is relating the sighting of three other witnesses Report: Two orange lights flying SW - NE. Very bright, larger than Venus, silent at cloud level and higher. Lights changing formation/position all the time. Duration of sighting: 7 minutes. UFO Sighting Armadale, WA. Date: 3rd August 2002 Day: Saturday Time: 11.15 pm Location: Armadale, WA. Report: Two boys reported seeing two bright orange lights at tree top height moving together. At first only one light was seen before a second one emerged from behind some trees. Both lights then proceeded to climb together as if synchronised, moving forward and up in zig-zag jumps. By 23.23hrs the trailing light disappeared behind some cloud whilst the leader was seen to move higher, still bobbing about before being lost to view by cloud. UFO Sighting Kewdale, WA. Date: 2 August 2002. Day: Friday Time: 8.30pm. Location: Kewdale, WA. Report: I watched a bright red/orange light move in a northeasterly direction from Cannington towards Midland. He described it as a sphere rising up as if on fire, which suddenly faded out. UFO Sighting Armadale, WA. Date: 2 August 2002. Day: Friday Time: 10.30pm. Location: Armadale, WA. Report: Two witnesses, watched a single very bright orange light moving west to east. At one stage it stopped for ten minutes remaining absolutely stationary before moving away into some clouds where it was lost from view. Total time of sighting: 15 minutes. UFO Sighting Huntingdale WA Date: 25th July 2002 Day: Thursday Time: 9.30 p.m Location: Huntingdale, WA. Report: Two callers, unknown to each other, reported the same sighting. Two orange star-like objects travelling from West to East passed over the witnesses and faded out in the distance. Total time of sighting 5 - 7 minutes. UFO Sighting Huntingdale WA Date: 24th July 2002 Day: Wednesday Time: 8.30 p.m Location: Huntingdale WA Report: Mr X and eight other witnesses were looking east, and saw three bright star-like lights in a triangular formation, equally spaced apart travelling in a northeasterly direction. The lights were one and a half hand spans AAL. As he watched the lights formed into a diagonal straight line also equally spaced. After about seven minutes the bottom two lights faded out and the third continued on its way, seeming to drop down towards the hills. No sound was heard. The sighting lasted about seven minutes. At one time a light aircraft was seen circling the area. None of the witnesses believed they were looking at hot air balloons. UFO Sighting Huntingdale, WA. Date: 24 July 2002 Day: Wednesday Time: 8.30pm. Location: Huntingdale, WA. Report: A group of three people, reported four lights travelling from the east going northeast in a Southern Cross formation. They stopped for thirty seconds before moving on. The bottom two lights faded out. The other two continued NE and were lost from view. UFO Sighting Kelmscott, WA. Date: 21 July 2002 Day: Sunday Time: 6.30 p.m Location: Kelmscott, WA. Report: Mr X has seen OBOL's for the past week, every other day. This day, 21 July he watched two bright orange coloured lights head SE from the NW. It 's possible there was only on light as they were so close together. At first he thought it was an aeroplane due to the fast speed they were travelling, but when they stopped, moved to the left, stopped again, moved to the right and remained absolutely stationary for two minutes, he knew this was something else. Also, the familiar red port and green starboard wing lights of conventional aircraft were not to be seen. After about eight minutes, the two lights moved slowly back from whence they came, but one of them seemed to settle down into the hills and was lost to view.. The witness has had a number of interesting UFO sightings over the years in the UK and Australia UFO Sighting Over Gosnells, Kelmscott, Armadale WA Date: 16th July 2002. Day: Tuesday Time: 6.20pm - 6.30pm. Location: Over Gosnells, Kelmscott, Armadale Report: On this evening about six callers reported three orange balls of light over the Gosnells, Kelmscott, Armadale hill areas. All witnesses described the lights as silent, bright , travelling W- E in a perfect triangular formation. It appears the lights then changed position, the rear two catching up with the leader and forming a straight line at about forty-five degrees. They stopped moving for about three minutes. Report: Mr X could not ascertain the direction from which the lights came, but said they passed over the Southern River in Gosnells moving towards Kelmscott. They remained stationary over the hills. Two of the lights moved away towards the South and the remaining light turned red before fading out. Mr X said a fourth light could be seen over the hills behind Gosnells. UFO Sighting Huntingdale. WA Date: 16th July 2002. Day: Tuesday Time: 6.15pm Location: Huntingdale. WA Report: The witnesses reported three orange lights in a perfect triangular formation flying over Armadale. They formed a straight line before breaking up, moving away and fading out. Mr X of Kelmscott, WA. saw the same phenomenon and described the lights flying W-E before changing direction to South. There were also calls from Mr Z of Gosnells , Southern River Road who watched one light turn red and the other two fade out, Mr W of Gosnells who alleged the lights were flying between 3- 5000ft and at one pointed stopped for up to six minutes. It should be noted that not one witness thought the objects were hot air balloons; garbage bags propelled by firelighters. When one witness queried why such hot air balloons could fly in perfect formation, he was told by the Bickley Astronomical Observatory that they were tied together with string. The incredulous caller calculated over one and a half kilometres of string would have had to been used making launch and take off almost impossible, not to mention the changing formation of the lights and their stationary episodes. UFO Sighting Armadale, WA. Date: 3rd July 2002 Day: Wednesday Time: 6.50 p.m. Location: Armadale, WA. Report: Mr H was facing his house (East) when he noticed to his left a very bright pale orange light travelling from NW - SE. No sound was heard. There was some cloud cover. The light was below the clouds, possibly at 3 thousand feet and was the size of a small grape AAL. There appeared to be flashes of red light coming off the radiated points of white light. The witness was adamant it was not a conventional 'plane or a hot air balloon. The sighting lasted about two minutes. UFO Sighting Kelmscott, WA Date: 24 June 2002 Day: Monday Time: 8.15 p.m. Location: Kelmscott, WA Report: Mr B and three witnesses watched two very bright orange/red lights travel silently from W - NE. At first they were side by side but one of the lights rose higher, changing the configuration. After five minutes a third light appeared travelling in the same direction. Watching through binoculars, he described the whole surface of the object 'swarming' like bees, or active bacteria when viewed under a microscope. A week earlier Mr B's son had watched two similar lights travelling in the opposite direction. UFO Sighting Ferndale. WA. Date: 3 May 2002 Day: Friday Time: 7.10 p.m. Location: Ferndale. WA. Report: A man reported seeing a white star-like object flying at about 10000ft heading W- E. At one point it dropped down and stopped for about 4 or 5 seconds before moving on. The witness, a pilot and very familiar with light aircraft stated this object was flashing randomly every two or three seconds, which was totally unlike any aircraft lighting. No sound was heard. (This object may well have been a paneled satellite reflecting the Sun, except for the fact that it dropped down and remained stationary for a few seconds. - BR.) UFO Sighting Mirrabooka WA. Date: 25 April 2002 Day: Thursday Time: 12.30 p.m Location: Mirrabooka WA. Report: A lady - was watching a plane approaching from the North-west. She noticed a white spherical object or ball beyond the plane heading South at about 40 degrees. In its westerly position the object changed to a bright red colour and continued South to be lost by distance. (Note: As the wind at this time was blowing from the North and Northwest it must be assumed that this was some kind of inflated object drifting on the wind. The colour change is the one factor that is puzzling. Any peculiar aerial manoeuvres might have put this object in the UFO category, but as its course and speed were constant a rational explanation must prevail. BR) UFO Sighting Bicton. WA. Date: 24 April 2002. Day: Monday Time: 5.55 a.m. Location: Bicton. WA. Report: Mr M was putting out the rubbish bin. It was still fairly dark and there was broken cloud about. A movement caught his eye, and looking up saw a very bright white light to the South, about the size of Venus travelling from West to East. The light was constant, unblinking and silent. He watched as it entered a cloud and re-emerged. To the witnesses amazement, the light made a sudden 45 degree turn on the spot, impossible for any conventional aircraft, and headed South. It was moving faster than a satellite, but slower than a meteor. UFO Sighting Rockingham, WA Date: April 13 2002 Day: Saturday Time: 6.10am - 6.15am. Location: Rockingham, WA Report: The witness, Mr X, and a friend were driving along Ennis Avenue travelling north. To the northwest they noticed a brilliant stationary white light about quarter size of a full Moon about 5 - 10 degrees above the horizon. They watched the light for about one and a half minutes and at one point looked away for a split second. When they tried to re-sight the object it had simply vanished. (This object may well have been the landing lights of a commercial aircraft on a pre-landing flight path. The NW is a common compass point for approaching aircraft to Perth Domestic and International Airports when the wind is coming from the East. At this time the wind was Easterly. 'Planes seen by their lights often appear stationary when seen head on to line of sight. A sudden turn to final approach will give the impression that the lights have switched off or the object vanishing. BR.) OUR THANKS FOR THE FOLLOWING UFO REPORTS FROM: BRIAN RICHARDS OF ASPR/UFORUM(WA). ___________________ UFO Sighting Maroochydore Qld Follow up 1800 Callin Code: 02637 19.08.02 QLD Day: Monday Date: 19.08.02 Time: 9:48 am Location: Keil Mountain QLD Name: Female Report: Miss X lives on a 10 acre property at Keil mountain (outback of Maroochydore Qld) On the night of Sunday 18th August 2002 at 9.30pm she went out the back for a cigarette when she saw a flash of light. Looking up in the sky to see what it was, she saw a dull oval shaped disk about twice the size of a star and about the height of a satellite. She called out for her brother, but it just vanished. She said the disk was travelling from East to South and was going quite fast. She went on to tell me that her next door neighbour was awaken on Friday (16th August 2002) morning at about 4.30am, she said he told her their was light coming through his window like day light, but he looked at the clock and thought it could not be light yet, so he got out of bed and looked though the window to the sky and saw one big bright light and lots of little lights darting about in the sky, he thought it was UFO'S and watched for a while then went back to bed. (as this story was 2nd hand I have not got full details). Possible Abduction: Miss X went on to tell me that about 13 years ago, her mother, brother and sister was travelling from the Sunshine Coast to Brisbane, when they were followed by a orange light, that passed right over their car. She then put her brother on the line who continued the story..... He said he remembers watching this light because it was doing impossible manoeuvres, he said he does not remember it going right over the top of the car, but that his mother does. They got lost, and confused on the road, and felt funny, they are sure something has happened to them and they think they have missing time. No body Marks, No nightmares since. He said he and possibly his mother would like to be hypnotised to see if they can remember more details relating to this experience. They would be willing to come to Brisbane to undergo hypnosis. Jan Stone AUFORN QLD Director Thank you Jan for this report The Tahmoor Encounter NSW Date: Sunday 28th July 2002 Time: Approximately 5.30pm Location: Tahmoor NSW Witnesses: M age 11, B age 12, Jage 12. I received a message on 31st July 2002 through the UFO Study and Observation Agencies (UFOSOA) voice mail regarding an unusual sighting in the Tahmoor district. In response I immediately contacted M who gave me a brief summery of the event. Inturn I arrange to make a personal visit with my colleague Trevor Foster at the household on Friday 2nd August 2002 around 8.00pm. After interviewing all three witnesses, we've compiled the following report: Approximately 5.30pm: The three girls decided to revisit the rooftop as they did the prior evening watching for satellites. The house is a single story weatherboard cottage. It was dusk and the girls had a good vantage point looking towards the east. With them they had a pair of binoculars and a pair of walkie- talkies. The girls noticed that a large orange light appeared (size of a 5 cent coin at arms length) approximately 15 degrees above the eastern horizon. The anomaly was note to have fluctuated in colours of orange, yellow, white and pale blue. At first they thought of an arriving aeroplane. But then a second light appeared (an apparent size compared to a bright star with similar magnitude to canopus) approximately 50 degrees south of the first anomaly, and about 10 degrees above the horizon (location appeared to be just passed the township of Wilton). This much smaller anomaly began to perform some unusually manoeuvring; from a stationary position it accelerated at least 5 degrees closer to the ground surface at an approximate 45-60 degree angle within a matter of a single second (point b). The unknown remained stationary with less much luminosity for under a minute, then vanished and reappeared between 5-10 degrees south (point c) from point b. According the drawing supplied by B, the altitude remained the same between point b and c. The unknown remained stationary for a similar short period of time before accelerating back to its original position. It then shortly disappeared. The flight characteristics appeared to be in a triangular pattern and were described by B as 'darting'. The first anomaly then began to move slowly towards the north. At this stage they partially lost view of it as it moved behind a tree. Then a third anomaly appeared in a valley-like region of the horizon (size of a 50 cent coin at arms length). According to the witnesses, this third object appeared to have 'landed' on the ground surface. The object was then viewed through the binoculars and presented in great detail; the object was described as a grey saucer with interchanging colours of green, red/orange, blue/purple and white rotating around the rim. They also noted the trees being slightly illuminated by this extraordinary phenomenon. They were suddenly distracted by someone on their walkie-talkie saying, "Identify yourself." This was followed by some unusual voices communicating in a foreign language. Around 6.30pm, the girls were then called down to have dinner. When I spoke to the parents they said, "The girls were full of commotion". Obviously the parents did not take this situation seriously, at first. Approximately 8.30-9.00pm The three girls re-established their places back on the roof after dinner and cleaning up. To their surprise, the third ground-based object was still present. Unexpectedly a yellow 'beam of light' ascended a few meters above the object and suddenly deviated its course towards the three girls. "It was like a orange, yellowy bright light shining on us from far away," the girls quoted. The light shone on them for a period of about half a minute, as recalled by B. At this point it is not clear how J ended up on the ground. She became extremely hysterical and ran inside. B and M quickly joined J as they collectively ran inside. Mr X said that he went on top of the roof to assess the situation for himself. "I honestly thought that the girls had seen a helicopter", he said. Unfortunately, by the time he made it to the roof, the object was no longer there J was taken home around 9.30pm. That evening all three girls had stomach pains. M could not sleep and did not go to school the following day as a result. J on the other hand, woke up the next morning with her nose bleeding (an unusual occurrence for her). She also mentioned that she had seen a strange small human like figure in her bedroom before this event occurred ('may' have been a result of a dream or hallucination). B said that she felt 'groggy' the following day when she woke up. Notes: I 'vee contacted the local authority (Picton Police Station) on 31st July and spoke to a Sergent B. He told me that the offer on duty last Sunday was an officer P who wasn't in at the time. However, Sergent B said that if he locates any reports relating to this event, he would contact me. I also spoke to Wollondilly Shire Council to confirm any events taking place at the time of the sighting, near Wilton landing field. No special events were recorded for Sunday 28th July 2002. The detail from all three young ladies seemed to correspond with each other. J and B still appear to be under the influence of the event. M on the other hand seems to be coping quite well. I have no reason to suspect a hoax. Both the parents seemed quite concerned and appreciative to our visit. I am planning to locate the area where this alleged craft had landed and hope to uncover some kind of evidence. I have also submitted an article to the Macarthur Advertiser, requesting other witnesses to come forward. Apparently, Mr X met someone at a Bi-Lo store who apparently saw these unusual lights. He refused to contact us at this stage. We have left our details with the family in case of a re-occurrence. This matter is still under examination. On 6th of August, a colleague and I went to Tahmoor to asses the area of the possible landing site. Judging by the girls vantage point of the alleged location (being near a dense forest), we attempted to gain access to the Nepean catchment reserve that runs along the side of the river for quite a distance. Our first attempt was Myrtle Creek (access through a reserve off Koorana Rd). After a steep climb we came to the bank of the creek. We found that heavy vegetation dramatically hindered our access further up stream. The next attempt was at the end of River Road. Unfortunately the end of the road ran into private property (on a large parcel). We then surveyed the other end of the river (Picton Rd, Wilton landing strip, Maldon Bridge Rd, Wilton Pk Rd, area of Round Hill, Marcus Street, Jakes Way). We concluded that if the anomaly did in fact land, it would have been on the Tahmoor side of the Nepean catchment. The following points gave this conclusion: 1. The reserve surrounding the catchment is quite dense, therefore the object would not have been seen in great detail if it did in fact establish ground contact on the other side. 2. The other side of the catchment appears to be lower than the Tahmoor side. 3. Wilton landing strip appears to be in a valley. Furthermore, hills on SW side of Picton Rd would further restrict any views of the landing strip from Tahmoor. 4. Judging by the description in the above report and comparing line of sight with a topographic map, the proximity of the alleged anomaly would not have been any more than 2.25 Km from the residence. So far we have three options: 1. Hire a helicopter to conduct a detailed aerial survey of the catchment. 2. Gain authorisation from the owners at the end parcel, at River Rd to have access onto their property. 3. Wait for the public to respond to the editorial. Trevor Foster's report Attila and myself followed up on an alleged landing at Tahmoor last Sunday 28/7/02. The interview took place at the acreage property on Friday 2/8/02. We arrived at approx 7.30 pm prepared for the evening. The Father (X) met us outside and took us into the house. X a sincere man was surprised that he and his family were taken seriously. The witnesses, three young girls, B (13), her sister M (12) and friend Je (12) begin to describe their account of Sunday. B started the evening of with stating that the three of them equipped with Binoculars, Telescope and Walkie-Talkies went up to the roof of the porch first then on to the ridge of the house roof. Strange in itself L said. From the ridge the view is spectacular. The lights of Wilton and surrounding villages can clearly be seen. Two strange lights were visible; the one on the left was smaller than the other light. The colours seemed to change to bright orange, white and blue. The smaller light also seemed to be darting about in a triangular motion, while the other one moved slowly away until partially obscured by the trees in the distance. A third light was then noticed under the obscured light. It appeared to be landed or very near the ground in a hollow/dip on the horizon slightly north of Wilton. In an area near the landing strip, adjacent to the F5. J used the Telescope and noticed the shape of the windows, which were rectangular in shape. The lights changed colours to Green, Red, Yellow, Orange, Blue, White and Purple. J and M give a similar account. The girls watched these lights for somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes. Interesting to note that during this time the walkie-talkie on a CB frequency had someone, a male voice asking for the unidentified craft to identify itself. Then a voice asked the girls to change channels. All three girls were then called down to dinner. After dinner the girls went back up to the roof. The orange light had gone, but the lower one was still there. The girls then did the washing up which took about 20 mins. They went back again and the lower one was not seen. They watch for approx 10 mins and saw the lower reappear. A light beam shone up from the alleged landed craft and seemed to bend at right angles towards the girls. Like a low power torch or spotlight. They stated the light shined on their faces for about 20 seconds. J states that for approx 10 mins period over this time the walkie-talkie was silent. J was crying after the light on her face, B was shaken; M had no effect at this moment. J went home shortly afterwards and went to bed at about 9.30, as with B and M. During the night J had a nosebleed and a very bad stomach ache the next day. M and B also had a stomachache, but theirs was during the night. M was so bad she did not go to school the next day. The tummy ache eventually turned into a stitch type of pain. B complained about being dizzy and a sort of blackout. Since this event J and B have a heavier then normal sleep pattern. J is having dreams which seem real, about people in her bedroom, described as normal looking approx 5' tall but with wavy arms. The elbows she said could be in a different position. Thank you Trevor Foster Project West for this report UFO Sighting Adelaide UFO Hotline Follow up 1800 Hotline callin 020548 19.6.02 SA Caller: Craig Nearest State Director: Charmaine Ballam Investigator : Given to: Colin Paul for follow up. About 12.50 a.m. today heard a helicopter outside. Went outside and saw this big orange bright ball. Went to ring radio station who had notified the police, who said they'd heard nothing. Wasn't the moon etc. Follow up - thanks to Colin Paul Report: Craig was up late, he had already heard the sound of a helicopter going over his house and had seen red lights of it about 15-30mins earlier. But, he noticed that there still was a light that seemed to be over his house, but this time with no noise, so he decided to go outside and investigate. He went outside and approx 200 feet up, moving slowly over houses was a orange/red colour light about the size of a 'tractor tyre'. He stated that the object was bigger than the moon that was out that night. He quickly went inside and grabbed his binoculars. Due to his excitement, he was unable to keep his hands steady enough, so when he viewed the object through his binoculars, he was only able to get a fuzzy view of the object. He continued to watch it move towards St. Bernards Road, and then onwards towards North Adelaide. During the time of his observation, Craig noted that there was no sound and the object moved at a slow but steady pace. End Report Thank you Colin Paul for this follow up. Regards, Charmaine Ballam AUFORN - SA State Director UFO Sighting Ascot QLD UFO Hotline Follow-up 1800 Callin Code: 020592 19/07/02 QLD Date: 19.07.02 Day: Friday Time: 1.00 p.m Location: Ascot QLD Reportee: Steven Nearest Rep: Emma AUFORN Qld Report: Steven was working at a building site at Ascot and whilst packing up heard a sound like a light plane. Looking up he observed a silvery round metalic object about the size of a 1 cent piece shooting across at a height of approx. 30 metres above the rooftops. The object had no tail and travelled in a straight path with no deviation. (Steven also enquired if there had been any follow-up to his sighting at Moorooka on New Years Eve - 2 black balls hovering over street lights) Regards Emma AUFORN QLD UFO Sighting Springshaw QLD UFO Hotline 1800 77 22 88 Follow up 1800 Hotline call 20611 1.8.02 QLD Date: 1.8.02 Time: 7.30am Place: QLD Caller: Steffen Telephone: Nearest Rep: Emma AUFORN Qld Report: Time 8.06 a.m. Location: Springshaw - south of Emerald, Central Qld Witness: Wife Sound: None Colour: Orange/Red Steffen observed a strange orange/red light travelling at about 1/2 kilometre off the ground off into the distance. The object appeared small with no sound, causing no disturbance; and travelled quite fast, disappearing in 30 seconds. No trail was observed and no other lights around the object. Regards Emma AUFORN QLD Thank you Emma fro these reports UFO Sightings Compiled by Brad Mildem UFO Sighting Melbourne Vic Reported By: Katharine W - Date: 7/2/02 6:36:02 AM Subject: UFO Sighting Location: Melbourne, Australia Date: 06/25/02 - Time: 12 AM Witnesses: 1 - Objects Shape: Fireball - Number of objects: 1 - Object had lights - Object left a vapor trail Object emitted beams of light - Additional Information: On Fitzroy St Tram tracks in front of 7-11 Event Description: I looked up to the sky and saw a huge light, and the reason this fireball shaped object caught my eye was because of its size and speed. It was too big to be so low without being distinguishable, as it looked to be well within our atmosphere. I know nothing that could fly along at such a notable speed and just look like a burning shaped meteorite. It seemed like a solid ball of flame or light with a tail of the same brightness as the 'head.' It moved along above me for about 5 seconds and then it moved from my sight due to buildings. UFO Sighting Brisbane Reported By: Wayne H - Date: 7/2/02 7:27:28 PM Subject: UFO Sighting - Location: Brisbane, Australia Date: 01-07-02 Time: 8:30 PM Witnesses: 2 - Objects Shape: Oval Number of objects: 1 - Object had lights Object left a vapor trail - Object landed - There were aircraft in the area Event Description: My wife and I live on top of a hill in rural Brisbane. We were watching TV at about 8:30 PM, when we noticed a green trail appear in the sky. Our house is all glass, and the light was reflected to the window behind the TV, so it grabbed our attention. Looking directly at the trail now, it was green in colour, and was the thickness of a crescent moon. The green trail appeared to crash in a West-South-West direction very close to Lake Manchester. On further investigation we went outside to get a better view, and noticed an object very similar to those objects shown on the video tape that we had seen on "A Current Affair" nearly two weeks earlier. I alerted our neigbours who live about 1 km away, but their aspect did not allow them to see the object. The object remained lit for about 3 minutes, before it seemed to dim. We could no longer see the object. I watched for about 10 minutes and could only see the one light. About ten minutes after I had fallen asleep I was awoken by a helicopter flying above. I went outside but could not see it. Did anyone else see this object? NOTE: If any of our Guests witnessed this Sighting, or one similar, please contact us here at Mystical Universe at: Edit4MUniv@aol.com UFO Sighting St. Ives, Sydney, New South Wales Reported By: Aaron R - Sydney New South Wales Date: 6.30.02 6:56:58 AM Subject1: UFO Sighting Location: St. Ives, Sydney, New South Wales, Date: 08.03.2000 Time: 10pm PM Witnesses: 2 Objects Shape: Light Number of objects: 1 Event Description: I went to visit a friend one night in St. Ives, just outside Sydney. Around 10 PM we were sitting on her back verandah looking at the stars. My friend remarked that one of the stars was moving. I gazed casually towards the region of the sky she was pointing to saying "well if it's moving, then it's obviously not a star." This star-type light was very definitely moving slowly in the sky (obvious because the other lights (stars) around it were stationary). We were wondering what it might be... plane? Possible but no flashing lights. Helicopter? Would have to be incredibly high up so not likely. Meteor? Way too slow. Satellite? Most likely... however, just as we were watching and wondering, the damn thing stopped moving!! That really stunned us because it just didn't make sense. After looking away for a moment, we were unable to determine which light it was we had been following. All the stars looked the same and none were moving any longer. Shortly afterwards we went inside the house. I'm not claiming that this was necessarily a 'flying saucer,' just recording the fact that I saw 'something' out of the ordinary and don't know what it was. UFO Sighting Adelaide, South Australia Reported By: Clive South Australia- April 17, 2002 at 07:48:19 Subject: UFO Sighting - Location: Adelaide, South Australia - Date: 04.02.02 Time: 9.15-9.30 PM Witnesses: 3 Objects Shape: Sphere Number of objects: 4 Object had lights The event took place near A Military Airfield or Base - There is a Public Airfield in the area Event Description: Four (4) Orange lights flying separately in offset diamond shape, moving slower than any plane making no sound and moving south. Saw the same lights around 10 PM the next night 04/03/2002, but only 3 this time and moving east over the Adelaide hills. On this occasion, the lights went out before the were out of sight. UFO Sighting Bunderberg QLD Reported By: Daniel D Brisbane April 14, 2002 at 19:17:20 Subject: UFO Sighting - Location: Bunderberg QLD Date: 1996 - Time: 7:00 PM Witnesses: 1 Objects Shape: Oval Number of objects: 1 Object had lights Object hovered Object had an Aura or Haze around it See explanation below Event Description: I was taking the garbage out and I saw something in the sky. I kept walking, then I thought it might be a UFO. When I turned around there was a UFO and then suddenly it flew off at great speed. For more of Brads sightings go to http://www.mysticaluniverse.com/auzconn/auzconn.html I would like to thank Brian Richards of ASP/FORUM West Australia Jan Stone of AUFORN Queensland Emma of AUFORN Queensland Brad Mildem Sunshine Coast Queensland http://www.mysticaluniverse.com Trevor Foster Project West of Sydney NSW For all these great reports All reports delivered to the AUFORN mailing list. -- Regards Diane Harrison National Director The Australian UFO Research Network and UFO Hotline. Australian Skywatch Director Tel number 1800 77 22 88 a Free Call Australian UFO Research Network - http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn E-mail auforn@hypermax.net.au A non profit organisation PO Box 738 Beaudessert 4285 QLD Australia Tel 07 55 44 6888
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 21 Third Witness Interviewed In July 29th Event Near From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:15:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:27:26 -0400 Subject: Third Witness Interviewed In July 29th Event Near The neighbor who had been mentioned in earlier reports has been identified and interviewed by Joan Woodward. Details are available on the Fund's web site: http://www.fufor.com/ Once you get to the home page, select the "News" link and you'll find reports filed in this case. I would add that FOIA requests have been filed and the FAA has put a hold on the air traffic control tapes for that morning, so it can be held until the requests are processed (I believe such ATC tapes are reused after a certain period of time and not archived). There is no guarantee that "National Security" might not be invoked, but we'll see how they respond. There are apparently several requests for these tapes that have been filed, which definitely shows interest. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 21 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 34 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 16:23:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:29:58 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 34 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 34 August 20, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ SEVEN KILLED BY A UFO IN NORTHERN INDIA "It comes in the night, a flying sphere emitting red and blue lights that attacks villagers" in northern India and the neighboring country of Nepal, "burning those victims it does not kill." "At least that's what panic-stricken villagers say. At least seven people have died of unexplained injuries in the past week in" India's Uttar Pradesh state. "'A mysterious flying object attacked him in the night,' Raghuraj Pal said of his neighbor, Ramji Pal, who died recently in Shanwa," Uttar Pradesh state, India. "'His stomach was ripped open. He died two days later.'" "Life along the Nepal-India border at Belaspur and Nepalganj," 220 kilometers (132 miles) east of India's capital, New Delhi, "went panicky for the second consecutive day on Saturday," August 10, 2002, "when an unidentified object again attempted to kill a woman." "The same mysterious object had killed a 40-year-old man in a neighboring Indian village a few days" earlier. "Sahim Khan, 55, of Belaspur was sleeping peacefully on the terrace of her home when the fireball-like object flew towards her, ready to attack, say locals." "'When we reached Khan's house after seeing the object, it disappeared instantly,' they said." "The locals then brought Khan from the terrace and kept her carefully inside the house. The locals said they saw the same object passing by over Nepalganj and the Guleria area." "Even as the object continues to attack villagers, authorities for both Nepal and India have failed to identify the object, which is said to be active at night and disappears instantly after the attack." "The local eyewitnesses said it resembles a fire- flame and attacks those sleeping outside their houses on rooftops and terraces. Deputy Superintendent of Police Gokarna Bahadur Pal of Banke admitted that he saw the red object but could not identify it." "There is a panic in many parts of the north Indian state of Uttar Pradesh as scores of people have reported being attacked by a strange and lightning-fast flying object that apparently left scorch marks on their faces." "The UFO has apparently been tormenting people in the eastern districts" of Uttar Pradesh "for about a month, and is being referred to as Muhnochwa, which means 'something that burns the face.'" "The first reports of encounters at night with Muhnochwa came in rural areas, but lately incidents have been reported in towns and cities, including the state capital, Lucknow." "Initially authorities were sceptical of the reports and labeled them as products of the imagination. However, now they admit to being thoroughly confused, as some of their colleagues have also reported to have had unpleasant encounters with Muhnochwa." "The Uttar Pradesh state government has asked the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) in Kanpur to unravel the mystery behind the mysterious Muhnochwa." "On Wednesday," August 7, 2002, "Kanpur district magistrate Arvind Kumar held a meeting with IIT director Sanjay Dhande. An IIT team is to leave soon for Mirzapur, reputed to be the worst-affected district." "Victims report being struck by a blinking red, blue or green object that left scratches on their faces." "Asma, a resident of Wazirganj (district) in Lucknow, said: 'I was asleep at home on Tuesday (August 6, 2002), at around 2:45 a.m. I woke up with a start to find a bright red blinking object attacking my face and trying to pull me away. I screamed. But before my husband woke up, it vanished into thin air and left scratches on my face.'" "Farah Baksh of Malihabad, 28 kilometers (16 miles) away from Lucknow, reported to police that a blue light attacked her." "Similar encounters have been reported for Varanasi, Ballia, Gonda, Barabanki, Sultanpur, Jaunpur, Lakhimpur- Kheri, Lucknow and other areas of Uttar Pradesh." "There were some disagreements about the exact shape, as some say it looked 'like a football' (soccer ball in the USA; futbol in Mexico--J.T.) while some said it was shaped like a 'tortoise.' However, all parties agreed that it was brightly lit." "As dusk descends, the streets in towns and villages from where such encounters have been reported become deserted, with frightened families huddling together in their homes." "In the village of Darra, 53-year-old Kalawati said she was attacked last week and displayed blisters on her forearms." "'It was like a big football with sparkling lights,' said Kalawati, who uses only one name. 'It burned my skin. I can't sleep because of the pain.'" "Doctors dismissed the stories as mass hysteria." "'More often than not, the victims have unconsciously inflicted the symptoms themselves,' said Dr. Narrotam Lal, a physician at King George Medical College in Lucknow, the state capital." "The police have another explanation: bugs." "'It is an 8.7-centimetre-long (3.5-inch-long) winged insect' that leaves rashes and superficial wounds, a superintendent of police told the Press Trust of India news agency." "Villagers have also formed protection squads that patrol Shanwa, beating drums and shouting slogans such as 'Everyone alert. Attackers beware.'" "Some accuse district officials of inaction and failing to capture 'the aliens.' One person died Thursday (August 8, 2002) in nearby Sitapur when police fired shots to disperse a 10,000-strong crowd demanding that authorities capture the mysterious attackers." (See the newspapers Kathmandu Post for August 11, 2002, the Times of India for August 11, 2002, and the Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for August 15, 2002, "India villagers say UFO is attacking them," page A7. Many thanks to Prasant Solomon, Brad Stuart and John Hayes for these newspaper articles.) (Editor's Comment: Welcome to The Aliens Strike Back! Week at UFO Roundup. You'll see what I'm talking about in just a moment...) MORE UFOs LAND IN GREECE "UFOs are destroying the plains of fertile central Greece, according to farmers who claim to have spotted alien aircraft landing in their fields." "After a visit by a 'strange flying saucer' this week, one angry farmer in the Koziakas area said he had lost several dozen hectares of wheat." "'This huge circular flying object just floated down from the skies into my field,' said Athanassios Tsioukas from the village of Prini. 'Its surface was full of small holes.'" "The farmer found the close encounter so unnerving that he rushed to the local coffee shop to alert his friends." "'When we got back to the field, the aliens had gone,' he sighed. 'But their machine left all these holes in the soil, some as deep as 20 centimeters, which had cut into my crops.'" "Mr. Tsioukas is not alone. Numerous farmers in the region have complained of unidentified flying objects leaving strange markings across their fields, although there is no suggestion that the unexplained designs are crop circles of the kind seen in Britain." "Some farmers have even demanded compensation. So far, their pleas have fallen on deaf ears as claimants have been unable to pinpoint the mysterious crop-eaters." "A fellow farmer, Apostolos Patramanis, who was in the next field at the time of the latest sighting, said he looked up to see 'bright flashes light up the skies-- and then the large object appeared and landed in Tsioukas's crops.'" (See the UK newspaper The Guardian for August 10, 2002, "Close encounters of the crop-eating kind." Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for this newspaper article.) UFO FLAP SPREADS TO BULGARIA Hard on the heels of the UFO sightings in Trikala and Prini in Greece came reports of UFOs in the neighboring country of Bulgaria. "Residents of the Vizrojdentsi district of Kircaali in Bulgaria have been witnessing UFO maneuvers every night" during the past week. "According to the newspaper Standart," published in Bulgaria's capital, Sofia, "There have been ongoing visits by UFOs within the region for the past three days," i.e. since Friday, August 9, 2002. "Eyewitness Anton Dimitrov, 14, reported, 'The first UFO was a triangle-shaped, bright red object. Two other UFOs joined the first one, making eight to ten circles in the sky" over Vizrojdentsi. "'Then they disappeared over the Kircaali Dam,'" Anton added. (See the Bulgarian newspaper Standart for August 12, 2002. Many thanks to Haktan Akdogan of Sirius Space Sciences Research of Istanbul for this newspaper article.) DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTED OVER CYPRUS UFOs have also been seen over the small island of Cyprus in the eastern Mediterranean Sea. According to The Guardian, "Growing numbers of UFOs have also been reported on the island of Cyprus." "In March (2002), a Swiss playwright who had just retired to Paphos, on the south side of the island, said he spotted a silver, saucer-shaped object 'emerging from the clouds' as he walked along the beach." "The UFO apparently hovered before 'floating down' and disappearing behind some rocks." "Two years ago, another flying object was also spotted in the skies of Cyprus from the Troodos mountain range." (See The Guardian for August 10, 2002, "Close encounters of the crop-eating kind." Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. and Haktan Akdogan for this report.) ONGOING UFO ACTIVITY REPORTED IN FRANCE Summer 2002 has been a busy time for UFOs in France. "In June 2002, a UFO was accidentally photographed near Tosne," in the department of Haute-Savoie in eastern France, about 100 kilometers (60 miles) east of Grenoble. "The photo shows a flat object in an oblique position moving in a rectilinear path. However, the witness did not see anything strange in the sky when he first took the photo." "A peculiar luminous phenomenon was observed Friday, July 5, 2002, between 9 p.m. and 11 p.m., above the Vosges Mountains" in eastern France, "notably visible at Le Thillot, but it was also observed in Alsace, in the region of Mulhouse." "Eight red lights (UFOs) were observed in Pertuis, La Mothe d'Aigues," in the department of Vaucluse, the same evening, Friday, July 5, 2002, between 10:30 p.m. and 11 p.m. "The UFO 'flotilla' was divided into two groups of four objects each. Both were triangular formations. They flew towards Cucuron." "At Argonnay in Haute-Savoie, a yellow UFO was seen twice, first on Monday, July 8, 2002, at 11:45 p.m., and again, two nights later, on Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 11:25 p.m. The object, a yellow luminous sphere, was at a distance of 300 meters (1,000 feet) from the eyewitnesses. Its flight was rectilinear and stable. Also, the light increased in intensity just before it disappeared." "On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at Mont St. Michel de Braspart, in Bretagne-Finisterre" on France's Atlantic Ocean shoreline, "five egg-shaped objects passed over the trees at a very great speed, going in the direction of the nuclear plant at Bronnilis, which is currently being dismantled" by the French government. "On Thursday, August 8, 2002, a UFO was photographed over the city of Douai in the department of Nord. The photo was published in the newspaper Nord Matin the very next day." (See the French newspapers L'Alsace for July 6, 2002 and Nord Matin for August 9, 2002. Merci beaucoup a Thierry Garnier de France OVNI pour ces nouvelles.) UFO SIGHTINGS ARE ON THE RISE IN ITALY On Monday, July 22, 2002, "an amateur filmmaker reported sighting a UFO hovering over Mount Monticchio in" Italy's province of Potenza. The filmmaker stated, "I sighted at an altitude of about 100 meters (330 feet) a metallic object that was flying at a very slow speed. When I lifted my movie camera to film it, the object departed from the scene with an incredible burst of acceleration." "On Wednesday, August 7, 2002, at 11 p.m., on the Via del Turchino in the Corvetto section of Milano (Milan)" in northern Italy, "crossing the sky at 45 degrees above the horizon was a brilliant but strange object, a 'molten light' that traveled from south to north at a uniform speed, accelerating only at the last moment. First it diminished in intensity, then it flared up again before disappearing on the horizon." "On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 4:15 a.m., a woman went out on the balcony of her home in Mondovi," in Piemonte province in northwestern Italy, "in order to look up at the stars. As she did so, she spotted 'an unknown object of a rectangular shape, non-luminous but visible and bright enough to show that it was a reddish- brown color, apparently of very large dimensions, flying slowly north in the direction of Torino (Turin).'" "At the same time, in Carpignano Sesia, a strange object was reported and photographed by six members of a local family." (Grazie a Alfredo Lissoni e Centro Ufologico Nazionale d'Italia per questi rapportti.) TWO UFOs SPOTTED IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA On Friday, August 16, 2002, at 3:15 p.m., Martin C. was at Churchlands Primary School in Perth, W.A. when "two small white dots approached from the south. They were approximately 75 meters (247 feet) apart. One of them had a small black dot on its back. They were heading west over Edith Cowan University at a speed of approximately 20 kilometers per hour (12 miles per hour-- J.T.) They appeared to teleport once. They changed direction and headed west-northwest. The one at the back (rear) appeared to change colours once. They were not birds and they did not have wings or anything." (Email Form Report) BRIGHT LUMINOUS UFO SEEN IN BRITISH COLUMBIA On Monday, July 29, 2002, at around 10:30 p.m., numerous eyewitnesses in the Bulkley River valley in Canada's province of British Columbia saw a bright, luminous UFO pass over their communities. The valley is just over 500 miles (800 kilometers) north of Vancouver, B.C. Three men witnessed the UFO flight in Smithers, B.C. (population 5,624). One of them, a logging contractor, "said it looked like an oak barrel in shape and was made of metal. He guessed that the object was 15 feet (4.5 meters) in height and 10 feet (3 meters) across. From his vantage point 2,000 feet (600 meters) away, he said there were two projections standing out from the center of the object and were darker in colour away from the main body of the craft. And he said there was 'no sound' from the object, and it did pass right overhead." Another witness said the UFO "was to the right of the Smithers airport, flying in a southwesterly direction. She said the object was definitely round in shape and silver in colour. While they were watching the object, it up and disappeared instantly." At 10:45 p.m., Gordon Stewart was on his 160-acre dairy farm in Telkwa, B.C. The Stewart farmhouse sits 6 kilometers (4 miles) from Provincial Highway 16, on a small hilltop overlooking the Bulkley River valley. Gordon reported, "It was exactly 10:45 p.m. on July 29, 2002 when I was sitting, watching a late movie, when I saw a 'huge' round white-yellowish object, travelling at approximately 600 miles per hour (960 kilometers per hour) fly at low altitude--300 meters (1,000 feet)-- through the Bulkley Valley. From my distance, the object was approximately the size of a pickup truck. The object travelled west to east. There was no sound at all. It was completely round and very bright." Joanna Stewart, Gordon's wife, "was lying in bed, awake, with the drapes closed when 'a really bright white light' lit up the whole room. She pulled one of the drapes and looked out to see a 'huge' very bright light. As the object moved very slowly across the farm, it shined a beam of white light toward the ground in a large field behind their house. She started to lose sight of the object, so she moved from the bedroom to the living room and watched the object fly 'slowly' across the field, across Boundary Road and onto their neighbor's farm, where she finally lost sight of it." In Houston, B.C. (population 3,934), the witness "looked up as a very bright, white-yellowish, almost phosphorescent, round object moved slowly through the night sky. As the 'meteor' (object--B.V.) gained momentum, it grew a short tail. This fellow was so surprised by the size and brightness of the thing that he called to other co-workers" at the Canfor plant. "They watched it for 30 seconds as it was 'dropping in altitude, heading towards Tweedsmuir Park in a southwesterly direction." In Quick, B.C., a retired schoolteacher "was going to meet her son, who was over near their greenhouse. She walked up the driveway and turned onto a small dirt path, holding her flashlight (torch in UK--J.T.), watching the ground to see where she was walking. She heard her son give a great yell. She immediately looked up and went to shine her light at her son when she saw a huge, bright, glowing, white-yellowish, almost oval in shape, object flying across the sky at a very low level. She said, 'I couldn't move. I was in shock.' She added that 'the UFO would be like if you took a round circle and started to stretch it out.'" (See the newspaper, the Smithers, B.C. Interior for August 14, 2002. Many thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for these reports.) (Editor's Note: The Bulkley River valley was the site of a massive UFO flap earlier this year. See UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 14 for April 2, 2002, "More UFO reports surface in British Columbia," page 1.) DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTED IN MANALAPAN, NEW JERSEY "On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at approximately 6 p.m., my daughter and I went out in the backyard to go on the swing set," witness Dawn G. reported, "The sky was clear, and it was sunny and hot. I was looking up in the sky, and I saw above the furthest (highest--J.T.) airplane, a shiny spot. It looked silver or white. It wasn't moving, so I kept watching it." "It still didn't move. Then, all of a sudden, more appeared in a formation, almost as if I was looking at the Big Dipper (Ursa Major) in broad daylight. I watched for a few minutes to see if there was any movement. There was none." "Then I ran in the house to get my video camera and binoculars real quick, and, when I came out, it was gone. I brought the camera and binoculars down to the swing set and kept my eyes on the sky. I saw another one (UFO) just above my head. I quickly grabbed the binoculars and tried to focus them. But all I could see was a silver- ish or whitish spot with a sort of halo (aura) around it. It sort of looked like a little cloud. Then I grabbed my video camera and, when I looked up, it was gone. I told my husband about what I saw. We both couldn't explain it." "Crop circles were found in a farm field in Coltsneck (New Jersey), which is only a few miles west of where I live. It really gave me the creeps." Manalapan, N.J. is on Route 33 about 20 miles (32 kilometers) east of Trenton. (Email Form Report) COLOR-CHANGING UFO SEEN IN PENNSYLVANIA On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 11 p.m., eyewitness M.C. was outdoors in Greenfield Township, Pennsylvania, watching a meteor shower when, as he reported, "I just happened to spot what looked like a star. But I noticed that it was flashing red, and then blue, and then green. So I continued to observe it. I called my daughter and her husband on her cellphone and told them to look in that direction (northeast--J.T.). They also saw it." A few minutes later, M.C.'s daughter and son-in-law "arrived here, and we all looked through binoculars. You could see that the lights flashed in rows, changing color very quickly. Sometimes it looked flat, and other times it was round. It reminded me of the crystal ball that drops from Times Square (in New York City--J.T.) on New Year's Eve. Looking at it with the binoculars, I could distinguish individual tiny round lights. I also looked at some stars, and they appeared as solid lights in comparison." (Email Form Report) BLACK HELICOPTERS ACTIVE ON THE USA's EAST COAST On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 1 p.m., Matthew M. reported, "My father and I were out cruising in his boat" on the Gulf of Mexico, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) west of Tampa, Florida. "And we had anchored down right along Redington Beach shore, when, from the south, came a black unmarked helicopter. The helicopter continued past us, heading north. While they were overhead, I gave them the middle finger. Yeah!" "They didn't turn inland. They just hugged the shore as they headed perhaps a mile north, then turned around and came back towards us, passing nearly over us again as they headed south." "Again, the helicopter was completely black...and I could not see into the windows or into the craft in any way." (Email Interview) Redington Beach, Florida (population 1,539) is on Highway 609 approximately 15 miles (25 kilometers) southwest of Tampa. For three nights in a row last week, from Wednesday, August 7, through Friday, August 9, 2002, black helicopters flew over Rehoboth, Massachusetts (population 7,600), a small town located 30 miles (48 kilometers) south of Boston. UFO Roundup correspondent Mary Lou Jones-Drown reported that on Friday, August 9, "in the morning, a black helicopter flew over, and it was really low, heading (west) towards Providence (Rhode Island) from Taunton, Mass. I myself couldn't see it, but I heard it." On Thursday, August 15, 2002, Mary Lou reported, the black helicopters were "in full force again." A witness "called me and asked me if I heard them, too. She said her cat went bonkers again. The goats looked nervous-- they must have thought the helicopters were overhead. You could see them looking." Rehoboth residents "still think that these black helicopters--the ones we see high in the sky--resemble (the one in the 1980s TV show) Airwolf." (Editor's Note: For more on the recent black helicopter flap in Rehoboth, see UFO Roundup, volume 7, number 32 for August 6, 2002, "Rehoboth reports flights of black helicopters," page 8.) CROP CIRCLES ARE ON THE INCREASE AGAIN Crop circles were reported last week in two provinces of Canada, in France and in the USA's state of New Jersey. According to the Montreal Gazette, "a multi-circle quintuple formation" of crop circles was discovered in a large field of barley in Howick, Quebec, Canada. "It was basically a quintuple-type formation of five large circles with other smaller ones both in and outside of the main formation. The largest circle was approximately 20 metres (66 feet) in diameter, with the main formation approximately 41 metres (135 feet) across." On Saturday, August 17, 2002, "an impressive large- area formation" was discovered by cerealogist and pilot John Erickson of Canadian Crop Circles Research Network (CCCRN). The crop circle was discovered in a field of wheat near Midale, Saskatchewan, Canada. Midale (population 522) has been the site of repeated summertime crop circles in recent years. The formation consisted of "five circles of varying sizes, a larger sixth broken ring with a large offset circle inside it, which in turn has a small offset circle of standing crop inside it. It is the largest known grouping in a single formation so far in this region." (See the Montreal Gazette for August 5, 2002. Many thanks to Paul Anderson of CCCRN for these reports.) In France, on Tuesday, July 2, 2002, "large crop circles were reported near Gongelfang and Thionville" in the eastern part of the nation. (See the French newspaper Republican Lorrain for July 7, 2002. Merci beaucoup a Thierry Garnier de France OVNI pour cette article de journal.) And in the USA, a farmer discovered large crop circles in his fields in Coltsneck, New Jersey, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) east of Trenton. (Email Form Report) It looks as if the aliens really did "strike back" last week. UFO reports were pouring in from all over the world. Is a UFO "summer offensive" underway? Find out more next week, when we return with "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you in seven days. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 21 Filer's Files #34 - 2002 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:05:43 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:33:14 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #34 - 2002 FILER'S FILES #34 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern August 21, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck Warren - My new website is at http//:www.filersfiles-ufo.com. UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE HIGH AROUND THE WORLD: The purpose of these files is to report some of the video and eye witness evidence that occurs on a daily basis of UFOs. These include landings, crop circles, mutilations, near misses and encounters. Todd Zechel's report on cylinder recovery. NASA's Spacecraft Contour missing, Maine moving lights, Massachusetts flying triangle, Connecticut dark sphere, New York daylight disk, Pennsylvania flying triangle, Maryland red lights, Virginia dancing lights, Georgia flying lights, Alabama flying triangle, Florida disc, Illinois lights, Colorado lights, Nevada flying boxes, Washington egg near Blue Angles, Canadian UFOs, Argentina mutilations, English alien face, Greek landing, Ukrainian Air Show UFO and alien creature causes riots in India. CANADA TOP SECRET UFO MEMO NOW PUBLIC W. Todd Zechel writes, "Regarding Filer's Files #33 and Canadian UFO expert Wilbert Smith (who claimed UFOs were the most highly classified subject in the United States Government) died of brain tumors." I worked on a case involving a now-deceased CIA guided missile expert and Patent Attorney for Werner Von Braun and Herman Oberth, Commander. Alvin Moore, who recovered a mysterious broken-off cylinder on his property in Virginia around the time of the 1952 flap, and after a UFO had followed an airliner en route from Martinsburg, W. Va., to Washington, DC, and was tracked suddenly dropping off air traffic control radarscopes. Over 20 years ago I wrote about this case, first for SAGA'S UFO REPORT and then FATE. I had become friends with Moore through Art Lundahl, founder and original Director of the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center, also my friend and UFOlogical mentor. Lundahl and Moore, both former Navy officers, served together in the local Navy Reserve unit and in the CIA. Moore met Captain Donald Goodspeed of Canadian Army Intelligence at CIA Hqs, where Goodspeed was liaison. He gave Goodspeed the mysterious cylinder to take back to Canada for study by Project Magnet and Wilbert Smith. Lundahl later learned through CIA sources that the physical evidence had been studied by the A.V. Roe Company, which was then under contract with the USAF to build a 'flying saucer,' in what became known as the AVRO Disc " Eventually the material was returned to Moore, but shortly turned up missing from his CIA office safe after the Director of the Office of Scientific Intelligence, Marshall Chadwell, had asked to examine it and then returned it to Moore. Neither the USAF or the Canadians or the National Bureau of Standards ever could identify the material, although the Bureau said, it was not a meteorite or a natural substance. Only Howard Cross of Battelle, for the USAF, said he thought it might be from an open hearth furnace--which made no sense in light of the fact it had come crashing from the sky, damaging trees, and embedding itself in the ground, where Moore's caretakers found it. There was a picture of the object in the Blue Book files at the National Archives, as well as the Forest Service agent Edward Crocker's report about the tree damage. Who knows what's left now? In 1967, Dr. Condon and Robert Low and others from the Condon Committee came to the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center (NPIC) to confer with Director Art Lundahl, who told them he needed good UFO pictures or films to study. Condon subsequently put out a press release announcing to the public that the Condon Committee was seeking UFO photographic evidence to study. He left out, however, that this evidence was being obtained for the CIA for it to study. While at NPIC, Lundahl told Robert Low about the Alvin Moore physical evidence case. Low talked to Moore, who explained he no longer had the material, but said he had submitted a full report to Project Blue Book, including a photograph of the object and Forest Service agent Crocker's report. Subsequent to this, the USAF told Low they had no such records of the case--which was a lie-- and the Condon Committee never even mentioned the case in its report, presumably concluding the two distinguished CIA men were somehow lying, but not the USAF! I subsequently not only found Moore's report in the Blue Book files, but interviewed scientists at the National Bureau of Standards who had examined the material and issued their own report stating it was not a meteorite or an identifiable natural substance. Thanks to W. Todd Zechel, Director of Operations, Associated Investigators Group NASA's CONTOUR SPACECRAFT MISSING NASA's missing $159 million Contour solid-propellant spacecraft STAR 30 apparently broke in two pieces as it hurtled away from Earth. Mission director Robert Farquhar said, "Kitt Peak telescope images show two parallel trails indicating the comet- chasing spacecraft has split in two. If they were pieces of the spacecraft, they were moving slightly slower than expected, he said. Mission officials planned to attempt to have a giant radar antenna at the Arecibo observatory in Puerto Rico and the Goldstone radar station in the California desert bounce signals off the objects. Thanks to NASA. MAINE MOVING LIGHTS REPORTED BROOKSVILLE - Sergeant Peter Carminati reports, "I live just in from the coast twelve miles south of Blue Hill in a hilly area. I see this thing on clear nights as three separate white lights with a large center light about 75 degrees up in the northwest quadrant of the sky. The other two lights are smaller, but appear to be equal size and are port and starboard positioned a little to the rear. I first noticed this on July 29, 2002, and it is still there in the same position. I checked Google for the Space Station and that's not it. The following events were observed on different nights: 1. A thin beam of white light shot up 90 degrees perpendicular to its relevant position in a two-second flash. Assuming this thing is about 300 miles up, that light beam may have been about 50 to 60 miles in length. 2. A thin beam of white two-second flash shot downward about 75 degrees to starboard. 3. The tripod of lights are in a "right bank" position, some 15 degrees off the horizontal. 4. The movement is so slow, it seems to be in a geosynchronous orbit over the Quebec/Maine Border in the Thetford Mines area. It takes two hours for it to move a short 5 to 7 degrees toward the north between 10 and Midnight. On humid nights it is smaller, but goes hyper with uneven zip flashing. Thanks to SSgt, Peter Carminati USAF (Ret) Down_East_Options@onpefect.com MASSACHUSETTS PHOTO'S OF TRIANGULAR UFO FITCHBURG -- NUFORC reports that on August 12, 2002, the witness saw a triangle shaped object hovering between apple trees on a hill that overlooks his backyard at 7:30 AM. The object then rose from the ground level to 300 feet up over the tree line in less that a second. The witness woke his son and pointed to the object. He ran downstairs and grabbed his digital Olympus camera running into his back yard. The witness states, "The object had moved 200 yards east and I snapped six pictures of a triangular object that I cannot explain. There was no wind, there was no sound and it moved faster than any object I have seen. It seemed to spin like a top. After examining the pictures at 800X, we noticed a white field around the object that looked very interesting. Thanks to Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC CONNECTICUT DARK SPHERICAL OBJECT SIGHTED ROXBURY -- The witness reports on August 11, 2002, "I was in the back yard at dusk when I looked up to observe a private plane flying over head, I then noticed a second higher flying dark gray to black craft that was the shape of a squashed sphere. There was a lump on the bottom center of the metallic craft that was traveling north smoothly and without a sound. This object did not appear to be a balloon as it traveled much faster, but there was no sound. I ran to the house for binoculars and sure enough it was indeed round (spherical) in shape. My wife and I watched until it disappeared to the north. Thanks to Peter Davenport NEW YORK DAYLIGHT DISK EMPIRE STATE BUILDING NEW YORK -- Peter Davenport spoke to this quite convincing observer who stated, "I was having lunch on my terrace that over looks the Empire State Building on August 10, 2002, around 1:45 in the afternoon when I saw a disk shape flying object to the left of the building. I grabbed my camera and began recording. The object then flew up along the building and then zoomed away to the right at a speed of light. Following that I saw another object even higher in the sky zooming away at a speed of light. Incredibly I have all of it on tape. Thanks to Peter Davenport PENNSYLVANIA FLYING TRIANGLE SUSQUEHANNA COUNTY -- On August 3, 2002, about 11 PM, a witness reported seeing a triangular shaped object, appear in the east, and move west at a high rate of speed across the entire sky. The high altitude object was faintly lighted, and larger than a nickel at arm's length. BEAVER COUNTY -- The wife was awakened at 3:45 AM, on August 4, 2002, when a bright round object could be seen about 100 feet from the house behind a tree. She woke her husband and they saw the object hovering at 50 feet high. At first they thought it was the moon, but realized it was too large, and too low. It illuminated the field with a whitish glow. Thanks to Stan Gordon who is holding a National UFO Information Week Display on August 24, at Westmoreland Mall, Route 30 East in Greensburg, PA MARYLAND THREE BIG RED LIGHTS OUTSIDE MOVIE THEATER CHURCHVILLE -- As the witness came out of the "Signs" movie at 9:30 PM on August 3, 2002, he happened to look up and above the tree line in the parking lot he saw three bright red lights with a little white light at each end. " I just stood there with my mouth open, trying to see what it was and it changed into a little dim light and then disappeared. In the movie aliens invade Earth, was this the Power of suggestion? VIRGINIA EIGHT OBJECTS DANCING, ZIGZAGGING LURAY BLUE RIDGE MOUNTAINS -- On August 7, 2002, at around 10:30 PM, I looked into the night sky and noticed two flashing objects in the sky over Skyline Drive here in Luray. Two objects were flashing red and white lights, possibly blue or green as well. And they were moving in ways that I've never seen anything move before. They would suddenly jerk to the left or right, constantly varying speed and direction. The objects moved in and out of a patch of clouds. For over two hours. These were soon joined by 5 or 6 more objects that included smaller triangle orange-white lights that didn't blink or strobe like the others. The strobing objects flashed in an irregular pattern. When they would go into the cloud, you could see flashes like heat lightning. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC GEORGIA FLYING LIGHTS LAGRANGE -- Tom Sheets MUFONGA reports that a lady who grew up attending air shows with her father a 33 year veteran Captain for a major airline. She has been observing a white star-like lights flying all around the Troup County sky, performing aerial acrobatics at high speeds beyond the capability of any aircraft she's ever seen. The witness says she can quickly identify normal aircraft lights, and these are very different. The lights will grow larger and larger and move until it's almost overhead, then it will hover, and change to a different color, then shrink in size in about one-second, becoming a pinpoint of white light again as it flies off. They change to orange, green and red, and they seem to be very close during those times, but there is no sound. It is obvious the witness knows aviation and aircraft thoroughly, and some parts of what she has described just does not fit the category of 'misidentified aircraft. Thanks to Tom Sheets MUFONGA - FLORIDA DISK SHAPED WITH MANY COLORS PALM COAST -- On the evening of August 7, 2002, disk shaped objects with colors of blue, green, orange, yellow and white were spotted. Blues and reds were more easily visible. One was in the northeast and the other in the southeast sky. Not that high on the horizon. They looked round at first, but upon high magnification, they were more flat and the lights were in a straight line. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ALABAMA FLYING TRIANGLE FLIES THROUGH STORM HAZEL GREEN -- On August 2, 2002, a couple were on the back porch to watch an electrical storm was moving in. They report, "It was only lighting but we thought it was like having our own free fire works display." We could still see the stars above us but the lightning storm was all around our city with just this clear spot in the middle. After watching the storm for a while we both noticed what looked like a car with its high beams in the sky off to the northeast. It moved our way slowly and made no noise until it was right above us. We could clearly see, it was a flying triangle with two bright lights on the front with three white lights in a circle underneath with a red light in the center. It was about fifty feet off the ground and traveling southwest very slowly (too slow for an airplane). I used to be in the army and I know the sounds of both airplanes and helicopters and the hum from this craft was not the same. As soon as it went back into the storm clouds, the wind started blowing at a high rate and within a minute after it disappeared the storm just stopped. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ILLINOIS BRIGHT YELLOW LIGHTS BARRINGTON -- On August 7, 2002, the witness was sitting on his deck on a clear evening at 10:34 PM, when he noticed a bright yellow satellite light at the lower left of the Big Dipper. This light was brighter than the star Lyra. I used a 10x70 pair of binoculars and did not see the usual red and green lights of an aircraft. The brightness began to fade quickly after it traveled about 20 degrees towards the North star and faded out. At 10:37 PM, a similar bright star-like object moved south from the Dipper bowl and traversed about 15 degrees before it too, faded. Both objects were yellow, and disappeared after moving toward the zenith 15-20 degrees. I've seen many satellites blink and flash as they roll, but they are always white in color and never this bright or yellow in color. Thanks to Peter Davenport COLORADO HUGE SILENT DISK FLOATS SLOWLY OVER ROCKIES BRECKENRIDGE -- My girlfriend and I sat on the edge of a stream, just watching the water and listening to the trees. At the same time, we both looked up...in the middle of the afternoon, and were totally mesmerized by the sight of a HUGE disk floating silently above...in the midst of some light cloud cover in the rocky mountains. The disk was gray/sand in color and had no lights whatsoever. It was approximately 100 yards in diameter and floated slowly over us at an altitude of approximately 1500 feet. My girlfriend and I did not discuss the event for two weeks Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC DENVER -- After 45 years of being interested in UFOs, I finally saw one, or rather, three. The Denver Museum of Nature and Science organized an astronomy camp-out August 9-10, to view the Perseid meteor shower from the mountains. We were camped out in tents on a perfect viewing night. I was looking straight up to the zenith around 3:00 AM, when I saw three orange point-lights. They traveled east to about 45 degrees elevation where they were lost in the light from Denver. The objects were not stars or planets. Autokinesis can make such objects move around a lot within a small area, but not traverse 45 degrees of arc. They were not meteors, which last only seconds since I watched for at least a minute. They were self-luminous, because it was 3 AM. The objects could have been high altitude aircraft but I suspect they were not due to their formation. Two objects were forward, one a little behind the other, and the third was way back from the other two. Aircraft flying in formation normally maintain equal distances from one another. The objects were in a triangular formation in which no side of the triangle was the same length as any other side. Thanks to Dr. Richard DeTar Pangurcat NEVADA TWO SQUARE FLYING BOXES HENDERSON -- The witness saw a light illuminating his backyard, which then turned into two square intersecting boxes at 11:30 PM on August 2, 2002. He says, "I looked out my sliding glass door and saw a large bright light shining through the trees in my backyard. Then the light turned into an object in the sky that resembled two square boxes, intersecting each other, with lights surrounding the boxes. The object began to move to the east and turned back into a bright light, and made a loud rumbling noise, similar to that of an airplane. It drifted off toward the east until I could see it no longer. WASHINGTON EGG UFO FLIES NEAR BLUE ANGELS SEATTLE -- While on top of an eight story building on August 2, 2002, I was watching the Navy Blue Angels flying team practice when a white egg shaped UFO flew by moving from south to north at 12:30 PM. Commercial planes fly through this space quite a bit, but this was at least three times higher moving at about the same speed as a 777 jet aircraft. Thanks to Peter Davenport CANADIAN SIGHTINGS CONTINUE TORONTO -- My uncle was looking up at a helicopter on August 4, 2002, when he saw a small circle being followed by a larger circle flying in formation. At 5:00 PM, they were stationary for about ten minutes and the smaller one disappeared and a minute later the bigger one split into two and vanished. After a short period of time many more objects started flying across the sky and then vanished. They circled back and continued flying for 35 minutes. They were stationary in different spots in the sky. Looking at them with binoculars they were two crafts close together. My theory is if they were UFOs, they were watching a large gathering of nearly a million people. They moved much faster than the planes approaching or leaving the airport. EDMONTON -- The witness had just gotten out of work on August 3, 2002, and was waiting at a bus stop at midnight. He states, "I heard an odd buzzing noise, and looked up to see a small silver disk floating several feet above me. I could not define the size of the craft, as it appeared to be both near and far away. The object jutted back and forth and moved extremely fast in different directions. After doing so it sort of blinked a blinding blue light and shot straight into the sky. HOUSTON AND SMITHERS BC -- Brian Vike drove 40 minutes, to interview a retired teacher and her civil engineer son. They saw an object shoot across the Telkwa Mountains on July 29, 2002, they will never forget. Her son gave out a loud yell and she immediately looked up and saw a HUGE, bright, glowing white/yellowish oval object flying across the sky at low level. She said, "I couldn't move, I was in shock and it was slightly oval, kind of walnut shape that had intense brightness. It would be like a round circle stretched. At arm's length it was the size of her finger nail. It was "just" above the timber, and the object shot down the valley one and half miles away heading southwest at a quick pace. Thanks to Brian Vikes HBCC UFO Research - yogibear@bulkley.net ARGENTINA THREE BURROS KILLED AS MUTILATIONS CONTINUE EL CHURCHAL -- "The discovery of three dead burros, showing signs of mutilation, raised the number to seven in Jujuy province. The animals, belonging to Miguelina Martinez were found lying in a pasture field. One of them was missing an eye, another the tail and the anus, while the third one, was missing its fetus." EL NAUCO RANCH -- During the last two months six cows and four bulls have been found mutilated on the ranch. Aside from bovines, which are involved in 90 percent of these events, horses, pigs, sheep, guanacos and wild boars have also been mutilated." Thanks to Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi ENGLAND HAS NEW ALIEN FACE CROP FORMATION WINCHESTER, HAMPSHIRE -- On August 15, 2002, an 'impressive' new formation about 600 feet long of a clearly non-human face was spotted of almost photographic quality. Like the Chilbolton "face" and "Aericibo" crop circles of last year, it is composed of dot matrix tufts of wheat. Lucy Pringle flew over the formation, confirming its location at Crabwood Farm near Pitt. The alien face looks rather menacing and is holding something that looks like a CD disc that contains a possible code. Skywatch reports that Steve Clementson visited the alien face crop formation and the scan lines and Gizmo polarity are aligned to Stone Henge. This is because the received signals are neither strictly electrostatic, nor strictly electromagnetic, but affect either. Due to the close proximity of transmission masts, all of which bristled with microwave antenna, Paul was able to detect a strong RF transmission at 1500 megahertz. The terrain is very uneven, being on the side of a hill and you cannot see the whole formation at once. Attempting to hoax this formation would have been very difficult. People visiting the formation claim they feel sick. The circle appears to contain a deciphered code that allegedly states: "Beware the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises. Much pain but still time. (damaged word). there is good out there. We oppose deception." See story on decryption at: http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news.cfm?ID=381&category=Environm ent Thanks to Bill Hamilton Skywatch International, Inc. http://www.skywatch-research.org ITALIAN UFO NEWS 46 UFO REPORTS IN JULY The Italian Center for UFO Studies reports there were 46 sightings catalogued for July, compared with 43 cases in May and 41 in June (and as opposed to a mean 38 monthly reports during the first half of the year). Most of the reports are in the Veneto region with 30 sightings. Thanks to Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm. SAUCER LANDS IN GREECE KOZYAKA -- According to the Athens News Agency, "Dozens of peasants saw a UFO land in a farm field near Trikala in northern Greece during the morning hours of August 7, 2002." "The flying object was disc-shaped and 10 meters [33 feet} in diameter, with hundreds of small portholes on it. The UFO landed and left traces on the field." The villagers described the flying saucer which caused enormous light flashes and made unusual maneuvers. Thanks to Haktan Akdogan of Sirius Space Sciences Research Center of Istanbul. RUSSIAN HUNDREDS WATCH UFO DOGFIGHT OVER AIR BASE Last weeks Russian Dog Fight story in Filer's Files #33 apparently is the rehash of a year old May 31, report. Russian researchers do not know Vickie York or how she got this story. UKRAINIAN AIR SHOW UFO MAY HAVE CAUSED TRAGEDY LVIV -- According to preliminary conclusions of the Ukrainian Commission of the air show crash at "Sknyliv" airdrome killing 76 and wounding 241 on July 27; the crash took place due to numerous violations and faults of the show organizers, military and Lviv authorities. The President of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma listened to the report of Ye.Marchuk about the preliminary conclusions that confirmed the crash was caused by pilots who deviated from their task. Ukrainian Minister of Defense Volodymyr Shkidchenko does not exclude the possibility that many will be removed from the Armed Forces of the Ukraine. The immediate causes of the air crash are: first -- a mistake of the "Su-27" crew in their piloting technique during performance of the unplanned element; second -- unsatisfactory control of the crew's operations, conducting of flights a direct non- fulfillment of duties by Anatoliy Tretyakov and Yuri Yatsyuk. The deciphering of the "black box" completely confirms the words of experts. The pilots saw "Sknyliv" at 12.43. Within 5 seconds deputy commander of the 14th Air Corps A. Tretyakov allowed them to perform their flight task. Nine seconds later Volodymyr Toponar made a first step towards the catastrophe, which is confirmed by the statement of the second pilot Yuri Yehorov: "Vova, why should we go there". Assistant director of the flights in the pilotage area Yu.Yatsyuk did not notice the violation and allows the pilotage. Another recording of the flight recorder -- warning signal of the computer about dangerous lowering. Yu.Yehorov says to V.Toponar about a large fuel load in the plane. "We have 6 tons. Do you understand?" Seems like V. Toponar does not hear him. His answer is: "Where are the viewers?" It becomes clear that the pilots lost their orientation. Yu.Yehorov also cannot tell where are the viewers. A minute and a half remained till the collision with the earth. V.Toponar cries out that there are no people on the right, and reports to the flight commander he will perform the figure to the left. The fatal figure of the air show started a 12.43. 4 seconds later the Earth responded. Yu.Yatsyuk, emotionally by now, commands: "To the left! To the left!". The last words of the pilots were recorded 16 seconds before the end of the recording. There were only reports of the board computer: "Limit angle of attack". "Limit overheating". The pilots of Su-27, both Col. Vladimir Toponar' and Juriy Egorov do not consider themselves guilty. The pilots who were able to eject prior to the final crash and have traumas of a backbone are in the hospital. According to Col. Toponar, 'the craft at a certain moment became been unruled' (uncontrollable). what happened, for me was a little bit unexpected. At the last second they struggled for control of the aircraft to save as many bystanders as possible. There was a command order to fly directly above heads of the people. Col. Toponar denied the findings of the state commission that claimed the direct reason of accident became a deviation from the task and execution of the figure which was not a stipulated flight task. He had accomplished these acrobatics before in standard test flights. The real UFO was caught on video and shown on both Russian and German television have been ignored by the Ukrainians. Russian television is reporting an unidentified object skimmed a Ukrainian fighter jet moments before it crashed into a crowd of aviation enthusiasts. The object could only be seen when footage of the disaster was slowed down. Thanks to Anatolij kutovoj@MAIL.IAE.LT. Editor's Note: Assuming the UFO was there at the time of the crash it was either attempting to aid the pilots or to cause harm. The SU-27 is shown recovering from a dive and flying level momentarily as the cylinder shaped UFO passes directly underneath. Diagrams of the video on my website show that the SU-27 as it appears to recover from the acrobatic maneuver but appears to be in a stall. This UFO stabilization appeared to provide the pilots with time and attitude to successfully eject. http://abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s639849.htm, http://www.kp.ru/images/1/20020806180947. UFO CENTER PHOTOS PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE UNDER GOD Don Ware writes: "There would be less debate about use of the phrase "under God" if more people broadened their understanding of what God is. Many cultures have differing views of God because their religion teaches only a part of what God is. God is omnipotent, omniscient (all knowing), and omnipresent. God is universal consciousness." We are each eternal spiritual beings. There is a spark of God in each of us; Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. Intelligent life is abundant throughout the universe. God is in angels and aliens. Seraphim and cherubim watch over us. Archangels and those such as Pleiadians have been our teachers throughout history. When you expand your consciousness to be able to accept that there if some form of consciousness in animals and trees and even the planet, you may understand God as "all that is." Some early cultures understood God as the sun. Regardless of what anyone's religion has taught them, we are one nation under God. Thanks to Lt. Col. Donald M. Ware Ft. Walton Beach, FL for his thoughts. UFO DEFENSE TACTICS - WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS A. K. Johnstone, PhD, explores with evidence, the creation of a weather shield to deter UFOs from entering earth's atmosphere, as well as the erratic weather changes in recent years. Numerous UFO sightings are examined from a scientific viewpoint, including plasma sheaths and fireballs. Order illustrated book, $14.95 from Hancock House, 1-800-938-1114. THE UFO STORE -- Your purchases at the UFO Store will help pay for the UFO display at the Air Victory Museum. Go for the widest selection of UFO books, CDs, and videos on the net at: http://www.filersfiles-ufo.com. NASA, AND IT'S SPACE ENCOUNTERS Jeff Challender has released the new video "What Is the Truth?". The second video examining NASA and its space encounters with 102 anomalous objects. These events were culled from 1400+ hours raw footage of ten live Shuttle flight broadcasts between Oct. 2000 and April 2002. VHS $25. Send orders to: Jeff Challender 2768 Mendel Way Sacramento, CA 95833-2011 MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George Filer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 21 Secrecy News -- 08/21/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:13:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:35:43 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/21/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 81 August 21, 2002 ** CONGRESS STANDS UP FOR OVERSIGHT ** GREEK PRESS VIEWS RELEASE OF FRUS VOLUME ** NASA CANNOT READ MINDS ** LOU SCHALK, FIRST BLACKBIRD TEST PILOT CONGRESS STANDS UP FOR OVERSIGHT Congressional leaders of both parties are challenging the Bush Administration's resistance to oversight and warning that it could have legislative consequences. Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., the Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, observed that Congress could allow last year's USA PATRIOT Act to expire without renewal if the Justice Department did not adequately respond to congressional inquiries. He said that his message to Attorney General John Ashcroft was, "If you want to play 'I've got a secret,' good luck getting the Patriot Act extended." Rep. Sensenbrenner also said that he was prepared to subpoena the Attorney General to get the information the Committee needed. See "Ashcroft threatened with Hill subpoena" by Audrey Hudson in the August 21 Washington Times: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020821-83886180.htm Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, noted that he has sent more than two dozen letters to the Attorney General since last summer without receiving a response. See "Ashcroft Assailed on Policy Review" by Dan Eggen in the August 21 Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41859-2002Aug20.html Justice Department spokeswoman Barbara Comstock said the Department would respond to the Committees' inquiries. "We're making every effort to be cooperative and do this as quickly as we can," she told the Post. GREEK PRESS VIEWS RELEASE OF FRUS VOLUME The long-delayed release last week of an official volume of historical documents on U.S. policy towards Greece, Cyprus and Turkey in the 1960s was welcomed in the Greek press. The volume, part of the State Department's Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS) series, was printed two years ago but then withheld under pressure from the Central Intelligence Agency, which reportedly feared that disclosure of the historical records could have adverse political effects or even serve as a pretext for violence. But nothing like that happened. In fact, journalist Alexis Papahelas alleged that the CIA had deviously scheduled the new release in the middle of August, "knowing that the Greek public would not show much interest during the summer holidays." The new FRUS volume was nevertheless reviewed at length by Mr. Papakhelas in the Athens newspaper To Vima on August 17. See the FBIS translation from the Greek original here: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/08/tv081702.html NASA CANNOT READ MINDS The National Aeronautics and Space Administration found it necessary to issue a press release yesterday insisting that it cannot read minds. "NASA does not have the capability to read minds, nor are we suggesting that would be done," said Robert Pearce, Director, NASA's Strategy and Analysis Division in the Office of Aerospace Technology in Washington. See the August 20 press release entitled "NASA Rejects Claims it Plans Mind Reading Capability" on the NASA web site here: ftp://ftp.hq.nasa.gov/pub/pao/pressrel/2002/02-160.txt The peculiar announcement was prompted by a story in the Washington Times which reported that NASA was developing brain monitoring technology to be used by airport security personnel for identifying terrorists. See "NASA plans to read terrorist's minds at airports" by Frank J. Murray in the August 17 Washington Times: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020817-704732.htm This month marks the 25th year of NASA's awesome Voyager mission into deep space. See the Voyager web site here: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/voyager/ In his memorable 1972 novel "Dying Inside," science fiction writer Robert Silverberg told the pitiful tale of a telepath who must come to terms with the loss of his extraordinary power. LOU SCHALK, FIRST BLACKBIRD TEST PILOT Louis W. Schalk Jr., the test pilot who was the first to fly a prototype of the legendary Blackbird spy plane in 1962, died last week. In flight tests at the classified facility near Groom Lake, Nevada, "he reached a top speed of 2,287 mph and altitudes that exceeded 90,000," according to an obituary in today's Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42439-2002Aug20.html The first flight of the Blackbird on April 26, 1962, was attended by former CIA official Richard Bissell and aircraft designer Kelly Johnson. "Both men were tough as titanium," recalled Ben R. Rich in his 1994 book Skunk Works, "but both were clearly moved watching our test pilot, Lou Schalk, gun those two tremendous engines and rip into the early-morning cloudless sky." "It was one of those unmatched moments when all the pain and stress involved in building that damned machine melted away in the most powerful engine roar ever heard." _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 22 CI: Indigenous Humanoids on Mars? From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 05:33:28 -0400 Subject: CI: Indigenous Humanoids on Mars? Cydonian Imperative 8-21-02 Indigenous Humanoids on Mars? by Mac Tonnies See: http://mactonnies.com/cydonia.html 1. Panspermia and Genetic Exchange The more we explore Mars, the more earthlike our model of the planet becomes. Billions of years ago, Mars and Earth were probably virtual twins, and even mainstream aerologists agree that the prospects for primitive life at some point are good. As NASA's harvest of Martian chemical and geological data continues, the implications of ancient Martian life take on special urgency. Are there "oases" of life on Mars? Could life be more varied and tenacious than expected (i.e., Arthur C. Clarke's "banyan trees")? And what, if any, impact has Mars' ecology had on Earth? [image] Space debris could transport hardy microbes from planet to planet. Unfortunately, questions outweigh answers. Well-known astronomer Fred Hoyle promoted the concept of panspermia, in which hibernating microscopic life is shuttled through space aboard comets and planetary debris. (In "Diseases from Space," Hoyle argued that life originated not on Earth but inside comets that crashed during the formation of the solar system.) Panspermia has become increasingly accepted among exobiologists, who note that Earth and Mars actually exchange tons of matter annually. Obviously, if lifeforms are capable of hitching rides between planets, then the classic debate concerning the presumed uniqueness of DNA becomes meaningless in terms of Mars-Earth biological exchange. Life on Earth could have Martian ancestry, or Martian life could have terrestrial ancestry. Or, if Hoyle's cometary origins theory is correct, Mars and Earth could host life foreign to both planets. Ultimately, we may all be unwitting immigrants from the Oort Cloud. Theoretically, panspermia could accelerate evolution on a recipient planet by importing ready-made DNA sequences or even simple organisms. The possibility of bio-friendly planets being genetically "jump-started" threatens the prevailing exobiological wisdom that Mars "wasn't alive long enough" to produce advanced/intelligent life. 2. Whose "Face" Is It? If the Face on Mars is artificial, how do we reconcile its humanoid likeness with its bizarre location? Two hypotheses address this problem by postulating a.) an unknown Earth civilization that voyaged to Mars in antiquity, despite and b.) extrasolar aliens who used terrestrial protohumans as their inspiration. Either case could be close to the truth. But panspermia may discard the need for both "ancient astronauts" and aliens. If Earth and Mars "shared" their genetic heritage, it's not impossible that a human-like species could have evolved on Mars. But "human-like" is a broad description, and even the most literal adherents to the "parallel evolution" school doubt that dissimilar planetary environments could produce identical species. The Klingons and Romulans of "Star Trek" are good examples of such evolutionary impossibilities, as is the alleged "alien" in the eponymous "autopsy footage." However, there's no reason why separately evolved species based on the same genetic template should diverge too radically. Although perhaps anthropomorphically biased, author Isaac Asimov argued that the basic human frame--two legs and arms with a head--is a practical shape with lots of room for deviation. Of peripheral interest is "remote viewer" Joe McMoneagle's descriptions of indigenous Martians: tall and broad-chested (presumably denoting expanded lung capacity). These details match what might be expected for beings adapted to Mars' relatively low gravity and reduced air pressure. Such creatures would be hard-pressed to survive on Mars now. But beings such as McMoneagle's humanoids could have flourished before Mars lost the bulk of its atmosphere. [Comment: I cite McMoneagle's description of "Martians" simply because it's a good illustration. For purposes of this website, it's immaterial whether his description is based on actual psychic observation (whatever that may entail) or simply made up. --M.T.] Science fiction writer Frederik Pohl addresses similar issues in his novel "Man "Plus," in which an astronaut is surgically altered to withstand Mars' uncompromising conditions sans spacesuit. 3. The Architects of Cydonia [image] The Face. The humanoid Face on Mars has convinced a majority of speculators that--if artificial--it must have something to do with us. This possibility cannot be dismissed. But there is the equally unsettling possibility that the Face was constructed by beings who just happened to look something like us, never dreaming that their megalithic art would ultimately become a controversy among beings from a neighboring planet. (The Face, debatably a split image comparable to cultural iconography on Earth, might represent an indigenous Martian leader or god. If so, the anthropological insights provided by an expedition to Cydonia would likely tell us just as much about ourselves as the presumed Martians. There just might be a crucial lesson to be learned if it turns out the Face is a relic of an extinct Martian civilization.) One doesn't have to browse too many esoteric Mars websites to know how this particular scenario plays out: threatened by decaying conditions on their native planet, the Martians evacuate to a prehistoric Earth to start anew... Perhaps the single-most startling aspect of this clich=E9d notion is that it's entirely possible. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 22 Secrecy News -- 08/22/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:28:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:43:39 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/22/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 82 August 22, 2002 ** PENTAGON ESCALATES ANTI-LEAK CAMPAIGN ** IRAQI INTELLIGENCE BRIEFING ON ABU NIDAL PENTAGON ESCALATES ANTI-LEAK CAMPAIGN The Department of Defense is intensifying its efforts to discourage unauthorized disclosures of classified information with an expanded campaign featuring new warnings from senior officials including a videotaped message from the Air Force. On at least two occasions this month, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has publicly reiterated his strongly held views on the subject. Speaking yesterday at Fort Hood, he said that "The unprofessionalism today is as bad as I have ever seen it in terms of the handling of classified information." "I'm told by my general counsel that I'm not supposed to say that I wish they [the leakers] were all in jail because it would be pre-judging something," he said. "But the truth is, I wish they were all in jail." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/08/dod082102.html Last month, Secretary Rumsfeld told the Service Secretaries and other Pentagon officials that "Your leadership is needed to help stop leaks." See his July 12 memorandum here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/dod071202.pdf In response, the Army this month issued a memorandum to "all Army personnel" cautioning against leaks. "The unauthorized intentional release of classified information is absolutely unacceptable and is punishable by law," wrote Army Secretary Thomas E. White and Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric K. Shinseki. "There is a healthy tension between the American public's right to know the activities of its military and the need for operational security, but it is not the responsibility of the members of the Army to resolve that tension," they advised. The Army memo was first reported by Dan Dupont in InsideDefense.com on August 21. A copy of the memo is posted here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/armyleaks.pdf Not to be outdone, the Air Force prepared a video warning featuring Air Force Secretary James G. Roche and Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. John P. Jumper, which was published August 14 on the Air Force web site. Leaks of classified information are "diminishing our country's ability to conduct military operations," said Secretary Roche, urging increased vigilance against unauthorized disclosures. "If you see something that's happening, a set of war plans or others that you don't like-- hey, there's a channel to deal with it," said Secretary Roche, apparently referring to recent reports of preliminary war plans for an attack against Iraq that were leaked to the New York Times by an internal critic of those plans. The Air Force's four-and-a-half minute anti-leak video message may be viewed here: http://www.af.mil/news/Aug2002/81402105.shtml The Navy has not issued a comparable statement on leaks. IRAQI INTELLIGENCE BRIEFING ON ABU NIDAL The death in Baghdad this of terrorist Abu Nidal was the subject of a rare public briefing by Tahir Jalil Habbush, the head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service. The transcript of the August 21 briefing is posted here: http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/an082102.htm _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email message to secrecy_news-remove@lists.fas.org OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 22 Bridgewater Triangle Update - Coleman From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:31:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:47:25 -0400 Subject: Bridgewater Triangle Update - Coleman Bridgewater Triangle Update - the Hockomock and Its Destruction - The stories of this ancient place, Algonquian for "evil" or "devil," are getting another visit. I am amused to see how something I began chronicling twenty-two years ago - the latest version is a chapter in 'Mysterious America' http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1931044058/cryptozoologi-20 is now being recycled via the mainstream press. (Please see below.) Of course, what is not amusing is that this proposed computer rail will slice through the heart of this fragile survivor of the great swamp that once was there, and shall speed along the destruction of the remaining bottomlands. Loren Coleman Portland Maine ----- The Boston Globe Boston, Massachusetts 22 August 2002 Environmental chief to rule on Fall River line By Beth Daley Globe Staff Globe Correspondent 8/22/2002 After years of debate, state Environmental Affairs Secretary Robert Durand is poised to decide next week on a new rail line that would connect Boston to Fall River and New Bedford - and cut through one of the state's most pristine natural areas along the way. The two-pronged commuter rail route proposed by the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, targeted for completion in 2008, would stretch south from the existing Stoughton line. But the plan has encountered a 6,000-acre roadblock: the Hockomock Swamp, a primordial-looking swath of forested swamp land in Easton and five other towns. Home to around a dozen rare species and hundreds of years' worth of folklore, the Hockomock was designated an "Area of Critical Environmental Concern" by the state more than a decade ago, making any construction in the swamp subject to stringent environmental review. Opponents of the rail line say a train will fragment the swamp's delicate ecosystem and disturb the quiet habitat with noise and pollution. "The [MBTA] seems to be bowling right over the laws designed to protect the endangered species and vernal pools in this swamp," said Martha White, assistant town administrator for Easton. Final public comments on the project's environmental impact report, filed by the MBTA, are due tomorrow. Durand is scheduled to make a decision by next Friday, but has until the following Tuesday to issue it. If Durand approves the project, the MBTA will still have to find funding for the approximately $600 million project and secure dozens of other approvals from state and local agencies before construction can start. Proponents say the project's environmental benefits will far outweigh the harm in laying several miles of rail line through the swamp. The train would carry an average of 4,280 riders to Boston per day, according to MBTA estimates, about the same as rail lines to Plymouth, Rockport, and Needham. The tracks would be built on an existing railway bed abandoned in 1958. New Bedford and Fall River officials are major supporters, saying the transportation link is crucial to efforts to reinvent their cities. The train ride will take 1 hour and 20 minutes from the two cities to Boston, a little less than driving, but also without the hassles of rush-hour traffic. "This is going to help so many people," said Fall River City Councilor Alfredo P. Alves. "If we had a rail service, it would help people go to work who live here. If these towns opposing the project were us, they wouldn't think twice about [going through the swamp]. We could be a bedroom community." MBTA officials had the same idea when they first floated the idea of a link between Boston and the Fall River/New Bedford area a decade ago. Among other proposals, they suggested branching the new route off of the existing line from South Station to Attleboro, but the idea was abandoned in the face of local opposition and projected problems with low ridership and other trains on the route. By 1996, the new buzzword was the "Stoughton Alternative," a rail line that would run from Boston through the existing Stoughton station to Taunton before splitting into two lines that would travel to New Bedford and Fall River. But that plan involves slicing through the Hockomock Swamp. Named by Native Americans, Hockomock literally means "spirit of low-lying places." Archeologists have discovered wooden dugout canoes in its dark recesses in recent years, and suspect many more artifacts may be there. The swamp includes parts of Norton, Easton, West Bridgewater, Bridgewater, Raynham and Taunton, and is surrounded by another 11,000 acres of wetlands and uplands also protected as part of the Area of Critical Environmental Concern. Environmental concerns have always followed any proposed commuter rail project, including the MBTA's most recent: the line to Newburyport and the soon-to-be-constructed line to Scituate. In the Hockomock, about a dozen plants and animals in and around the swamp are part of the state's Endangered Species Program, including the blue-spotted salamander, a ringed boghaunter dragonfly and three types of turtles. Then there are the legends recounted by local residents: Tales of a spirit of an insane woman who glides through the swamp and the disappearance of several young girls in it several hundred years ago are still retold in Southeastern Massachusetts families. There is even a group that believes the swamp is the paranormal heart of the "Bridgewater Triangle," where sightings of Bigfoot and wild dogs with red eyes have been reported. Transportation officials say they understand the concerns of residents and environmentalists about the swamp's significance, but say the current environmental impact report addresses any effects the line will have. The MBTA's conservation plan, outlined in the report, includes restoration of an Atlantic white cedar swamp habitat, construction of turtle nesting areas, salamander tunnels underneath the railbed, and funding for rare-species research programs. "We are very concerned about the environment ... and take that responsibility seriously," said James H. Scanlan, state transportation secretary and MBTA chairman. "We really believe we can have both - be sensitive to the environment and build public transport." Durand deemed a draft report the agency submitted in 1999 inadequate and sent the MBTA back to the drawing table. Its new report was completed in May. He also has the option of delaying the decision to ask for more information. Money for the project - if Durand approves it - may also be easier to get now. In recent years, the MBTA had to rely on its own operating budget and some tax revenue to build projects - not nearly enough to finance the proposed line. But last month, state Senator Mark Montigny of New Bedford inserted language in a transportation bill signed by Acting Governor Jane Swift last week that allows the state to pick up the pricetag by issuing bonds. "It gives us an alternative to [MBTA] funding" said Montigny yesterday. "These two large cities have been left out. It should have been built years ago. This project is like any other major transportation project: You have tradeoffs. The positive impacts of public transportation far outweigh the detriments here." Opponents, many part of an organization called Citizens Against Rail Expansion, say the MBTA should be looking more closely at the Attleboro alternative - and charge they abandoned it only after political pressure. MBTA officials deny that assertion. "If they insist on a train - and I'm not sure it's necessary - put it someplace else in these communities, just not through the Hockomock," said Kyla Bennett, a resident of Easton and the New England director of Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility. If Durand approves the project, it's unclear what may happen. Other agencies may deny permits while opponents have threatened to sue. Globe correspondent Robert Preer contributed to this report. See: "Things that Go Bump in the Bay State," in Mysterious America: The Revised Edition (2001) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1931044058/cryptozoologi-20 and defining Hockomock, page 163, in Mothman and Other Curious Encounters (2002) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1931044341/mothmanbooks-20
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 23 New Evidence Emerges in Argentine UFO Siege From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:41:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:41:03 -0400 Subject: New Evidence Emerges in Argentine UFO Siege SOURCE: Servicio Informativo Ovnilogico (Rio Cuarto) DATE: August 22, 2002 FIREMAN AND POLICE OFFICER BESIEGED BY BEAMS OF LIGHT RIO CUARTO (8/22/02)--While no names were mentioned, it was learned from researchers in Rio Cuarto itself that the eyewitness account of Sergeant Guillermo Arias, involving his strange encounter with a 200-meter long triangular device before midnight on Sunday, July 21, 2002 near Chaj=E1n, some 60 km SE of Rio Cuarto, is gaining credibility by the moment. Researchers of the C.O.R (Centro Ovnilogico Riocuartense) told this service that in spite of certain delays in research due to health reasons among some of the researchers, it has been possible to collect evidence consisting of other eyewitness accounts, visual evidence, "in situ" measurements and an "in visu" survey of the sectors related to the events in question. This evidence is being analyzed in detail in order not to overlook any aspect. Within the new evidence provided by the researchers there stands out an episode which, according to the researchers, "surpasses even the Arias experience", given that a policeman and a fireman were "beseiged by a luminous, unidentified flying object with a powerful violet beam." The same source declined identifying the parties involved, arguing "professional secrecy." They did add that the event occured moments before Arias's episode and almost in a straight line in a North-South direction. They noted that personal contact had already been made with the protagonists of this event, from whom reports had been received, and progress is being made toward the first investigative phase of this event in particular. Meanwhile, a commission shall work in an area near [the towns] of Chaj=E1n and Suco respectively in gathering evidence. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 23 Argentine University Leaves Bull Mute Unsolved From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:04:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:42:56 -0400 Subject: Argentine University Leaves Bull Mute Unsolved SOURCE: Servicio Informativo Ovnilogico (Rio Cuarto) DATE: August 22, 2002 U.N.R.C. HAS YET TO SOLVE BULL MUTILATION AT BERROTARAN. Knowledgeable sources informed this serivce that in spite of the best efforts made in the agencies of the School of Agronomy and Veterinary Medicine of the National University of Rio Cuarto, the case involving the dead male bovine mutilated in the vicinity of Berrotar=E1n, 75 km north of Rio Cuarto on Rt. 36, has yet to be solved. As will be remembered, this was the first mutilation case in which the center of higher learning of Rio Cuarto became involved, with the Vice Dean of said school heading a team that analized the animal on the spot and later transferred it to Rio Cuarto for the respective analyses. Dr. Bessone had said at the time that "the necropsy had shed contradictory information" among which can be highlighted: * The animal had subcutaneous lesions in its thorax and ribs. * Had lesions around the extracted eye, as though a device had been rested on it. * Its rumen did no contain remains of corn chaff, the type of nourishment found in the lot where the animal was discovered. * The internal organs were absorbed through the rectum and cut, aparently in a single motion and using the same tool. * There was no blood in the heart. The animal did not die from a heart attack or from electric shock. The fact that the situation has not been resolved should not be construed as impugning the capabilities of local scientists. They simply found themselves in an apparent dead end--a similar experience to that of hundreds of their colleagues in the great Argentinean region affected by these manifestations. Unfortunately, the scientists--in spite of their advanced methods and devices--are unable to unlock "mysteries", and can merely "investigate methodically." And that is what they are doing tehse days, without forgetting that this is not the only case under study at the School of Agronomy of Rio Cuarto. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 23 More On Chajan, Argentine Case From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@juno.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:11:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:46:25 -0400 Subject: More On Chajan, Argentine Case SOURCE: S.I.O. - Servicio Informativo Ovnilogico - DATE: 22 August 2002 MORE AREAS AND PERSONS INVOLVED IN THE CHAJAN CASE While the Circulo Ovnilogico Riocuartense's (COR) research commission is waiting for the weekend to commence its activities in Chaj=E1n and environs, the researchers involved in archival work have managed to detect the existence of several incidents which approximate the Chaj=E1n case geographically, chronologically and as far as its characteristics are concerned. Some of these incidentes--accoridng to the information examined by the researchers--are focused upon an area near Chaj=E1n and ocurred at the same time as Sergeant Arias's experience and that of other police officers from the Achiras, Cuatro Vientos, Las Albahacas and Alpa Corral area respectively, not counting the additional information which has become known after having recieved statements from police officers at Achiras and Las Albahacas. Thus, the investigative outlook for C.O.R. becomes diversified day after day and therefore, more complex. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales IHU Special thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO From: Greg Sandow <greg@gregsandow.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:30:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:50:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO >From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 06:39:13 +0200 >Subject: Russian Scientist: Government Knows About UFO Bases >Source: Baku Sun - Azerbaijan >http://www.bakusun.az/cgi-bin/ayten/bakusun/show.cgi?code=2956 >Stig >*** >August 16 2002 >Flying saucers Myth or fact? >Natiq Zeynalli >** >UFO bases in the Caspian? What's next, the Baku-Jupiter-Saturn >pipeline? >The Aug. 1-2 sighting of UFOs over Baku's oil company district, >Bayil, as reported by the opposition daily Musavat raised a few >eyebrows ? most of them sarcastically. Did it mean that so- >called flying saucers run on petrol as well at anti-matter? >According to Fuad Gasimov, academician and head of the >Seismological Department of the National Aerospace Agency the >often-sighted space craft have bases deep in the Caspian, one >off the north part of the Absheron Peninsula, the other in the >north sector of the Caspian Sea. >"I had been associated with the Institute of Earth Physics of >the Academy of Sciences of the U.S.S.R. during the Soviet era," >Gasimov told the Baku Sun. "Since then we have information on >the existence UFO bases around Baku. But it was strongly kept as >a military secret." I made one quick check of this. On another Azerbaijan-related website, I found an announcement of a conference on microelectronics. It was held in Azerbaijan last October, and chaired by Fuad Gasimov. However, he's identified as the _head_ of the Azerbaijan National Air-Space agency, and "a celebrated scholar in microelectronics." But whatever his job might be, at least he apparently exists. How celebrated he is outside his country might be another story. For what it's worth, the Baku Sun, source of the Gasimov/UFO item, is an English-language paper published in Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan. Most of its readers, I gather, are foreigners living in Baku. Many of them surely are Americans, since the current issue carries a story about the chance of a baseball strike, something my wife and I certainly didn't see addressed in any German or British papers during a trip to Europe last week. The Baku Sun describes itself, on its home page, as "informative and fun". Too bad they didn't try to tell us exactly where Gasimov stands in the ranks of science. I do think it's plausible that an Azerbaijani could have risen to a prominent position in Soviet science, and then returned to his native land when it escaped from Soviet control. Greg Sandow
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 25 Carolina Beach Sighting From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 22:29:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 09:00:45 -0400 Subject: Carolina Beach Sighting HBCC UFO Research Hi List This report is awesome, wait until you view the photos of this phenomena. Worth the look. I will post the pictures this week sometime. North Carolina, United States Near Carolina Beach Date: Friday, August 16, 2002 Time: 10:00 p.m. HBCC UFO Notes - The witness makes no claims that this was a UFO in anyway, but he doesn't have any answers for what he and his wife witnessed. If it was lights from object, or a natural phenomena it still remains a mystery. Also i would like to add I will be posting several photos this fellow sent to me he took of the beautiful sighting. Well worth looking at. I will report when photos are on my site. --- Hi Brian... My wife and I live near Carolina beach, N.C. We decided to go outside , since it was one of the first cool nights in a while. I sat down with a cup of coffee on the back patio, sighed and slumped down in my chair. When I looked up... I was a little startled to see several fairly bright lights in the sky at about a 45 degree angle to the North of our home. At first, I thought "helicopters"... but after watching closely for about 15 minutes... they never moved. In fact, the thought of spotlights came to my mind... but I discounted that theory when I realized that the lights were above a fairly heavy cloud cover. The reason I knew that was the " halo" effect around each light. I looked for the moon... to see if the lights could somehow be moonlight coming from holes in the cloud cover. The moon was to the south... almost full..also with a large halo. Closer examination of the phenomena revealed that the lights formed an almost perfect square. My first inclination was that they were located at the corners of some object... but because of the clouds... I couldn't tell whether I was seeing four separate objects or one large object. My wife suggested I get my camera. I did. I took several photos... all of them very disappointing with the digital cam. I tried taking an mpg movie... but when I viewed it, the lights did not show up at all. I managed to get a tripod and take exposures ranging from 1-8 seconds on F2. The pictures showed the lights... but they had a blue cast because of the low light. Two pine trees in my back yard could not be seen either. I took the pictures and downloaded them on my computer... then enhanced one of them in Photoshop to brighten it. The trees then showed up... and the lights took on a more realistic appearance. The only manipulation was to brighten the overall picture. I am including the enhanced image... along with the others in separate e-mails because they are large files. I am also including a shot of the moon taken that same night to the south and one daytime picture of the same scene the next day. I can, at your request, furnish full images on cd. Thanks HBCC UFO Research Editor: Canadian Communicator (Paranormal Journal) http://www.geocities.com/ufologia_canadiana/CanadianCommunicator.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 26 UFO Situation Near Youngstown, OH - 26-08-02 From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 04:29:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:39:46 -0400 Subject: UFO Situation Near Youngstown, OH - 26-08-02 SUBJECT: UFO Situation near Youngstown, OH DATE: MIDNIGHT on Monday morning, Aug. 26, 2002 Apparently something unusual may have taken place near Youngstown, Ohio (Mahoning County) around 11:00 p.m. on Sunday evening, August 25, 2002. The event lasted for over an hour and concluded somewhere around 12:50 a.m. early Monday morning, August 26. At around 11:15 p.m. Sunday evening, I was alerted to the situation by a resident of Youngstown, Ohio who left a telephone message on my voice mail. The caller, name and telephone number on file, said that a UFO sighting was 'in progress' in his neighborhood and that the police and media were on the scene. "You wouldn't believe what all is going on," he said. Around the 11:00 p.m. time frame, an unusual object was reportedly viewed to the west behind a home on Truesdale Avenue in Youngstown, Ohio. I did not receive the message until midnight, at which point I placed a return phone call and spoke for a few minutes with the wife of the person making the initial report. She said her husband had left with the police to pursue the UFO and also advised that it was her husband who had first called the police regarding the object. He sought to alert them, she said, so "someone could come out and verify this thing we are seeing." At some point, she informed that someone in the news media must have been tipped off to the event because a lead anchor with Channel 27 News in Youngstown, Ohio was seen in the neighborhood. "We had the actual anchor-man with Channel 27 on the scene here," she said. "The place is like a zoo, all the neighbors are out and watching this thing." She said that after her husband had placed the call to the Youngstown police department (time of notification not yet available), an officer responding also saw the object and stood outside watching it for about 20-minutes. While I spoke with the woman, her husband called in as per 'call waiting' and she put me on hold to change lines to speak with him. After their conversation, she came back on the line to say that her husband was still in the company of a Youngstown, Ohio police officer - in separate vehicles - pursuing the UFO. Its position, formerly in a western direction from their first point of observation, is now viewed in a northeastern direction from their vantage point at Bruce and Sheehigh Avenues. "My husband said they are standing out there looking at it now," she said, "and they can see something yellow around it. It has red and green lights and it's definitely nothing anyone has seen before." She reported that the event was still underway as of 12:12 p.m. We discontinued the call as I asked that she have her husband call me direct from the scene. CONTACT WITH PRIMARY WITNESS Around 12:34 a.m. I made contact with the primary witness, an associate minister at a Youngstown, Ohio church, by his cell- phone he informed that he was presently parked in a parking lot behind a grade school where it was 'pitch black' and where he had an excellent view of the object which, as of around 12:34 a.m., was still under his observation. He said that he had been watching the object in comparison with other stars and notes that the movement is different. He said the object had 'moved to the left' at one point and occupied several places in the sky during the past hour. "It was in the southwestern sky, then it moved over to the northeastern part of the sky," he said. "When the policeman and news person got there, the object was in the west. An hour later it was in the north sky, now it is in the east sky." He described the object as having a green and red light with a yellow 'rotating' light. He also informed that the Youngstown policeman is also observing the object. UNUSUAL SPECTACLE The primary witness informs that earlier, something sensational happened. "While were all looking at this thing, 4, 5, 6 or 7 white lights could be seen 'going to it.' This was absolutely amazing." The witness was asked for greater clarification of this and he said that the white lights appeared, from his vantage point, to appear in a 'V' shaped pattern above the main object, then the white lights 'went downward and into' the main object. "At first they were blinking around it," he said, "coming from various portions of the sky in this V-shape. Whatever these things were, they 'went to it' and disappeared. The witness informs that others in the neighborhood, including the police officer, saw the unusual object attract and absorb the white lights. When asked of the officer's comment, the witness said: "He did comment on the smaller lights, saying that he wanted to see those white lights go into it again." When asked again about for a better description of the white lights, the witness said: "It was almost like a "V" being pointed at the object and the white lights were going straight down at an angle into the object." He said the smaller white lights first came to his attention when a neighbor across the street had asked "what are those lights?" "At first we thought they might have been airplanes because they seemed to be blinking," he said. "But there were too many and it seemed like if they were, they would have all crashed when they came together like that." The witness said the appearance of this event was difficult to describe and that there was some dispute among witnesses present. "Everybody could get something out of this," he said, "but I'm absolutely certain that the white lights went 'into' the first light." He said that one of his neighbors commented that the white lights were 'baby ships' going into the mother ship. The witness informed that the reporter on the scene is Anchorman Glenn Stephens of WFMJ Channel 21 News in Youngstown, Ohio (who, at the time of my call, had left the area to pick up a cameraman). The witness also informed the name of the Youngstown police officer (withheld at the moment) and the telephone number he used to dial the police station. He then said that after leaving the neighborhood minutes earlier, he and the officer drove around and met up again at another location where the object was then in the northern part of the sky. He said the sky conditions were clear and there were no airplanes visible anywhere. He also said that he did not hear any airplanes. The witness said that he knows stars will twinkle and appear to change colors, and also said that he is aware that stars will seem to move across the nighttime sky. He again emphasized that this object was not a star. He reported that all of his neighbors, the reporter and the police officer were impressed by this object. The witness then broke in as we spoke: "The object is moving up as we speak," he said, "it just went up a bit." I asked if he had made any attempt to signal the object and he said that he had not, the object was simply too high. I then told the primary witness to stand by and continue to observe the object while I disconnected with him and placed a phone call to the Youngstown, Ohio police department. CONTACT WITH POLICE I then called the Youngstown Police Department at 330-747-7911. When the dispatcher answered the call, I introduced myself and asked if the object had been identified. She said: "No, what is it???" with great excitement. I then told her that I did not know what this object was, but wanted to speak directly with the officer in the field who was presently observing the object, as I was told. She then transferred my call to the Dispatch Supervisor Mr. Simon. After introductions, Mr. Simon said directly: "We only received one call about this and did send an officer out. There was no sign of any object in the sky at the time he arrived there." RETURN COMMENT FROM CLAIMANT After my conversation with the police department, in which the supervisor denied any officer had observed the object, I then called the primary witness back and informed him that the officer is not claiming to have observed the object as he reported to me. "I want to speak with this officer," said the primary witness, "because he stood right there and watched it with us." "He stayed out here with us for at least 20-minutes, maybe 30, watching this thing, even pointing it out the newsman. When he went on the next street behind us, he was still watching it." CONTACT WITH REPORTER A stroke of luck took place at 1:26 a.m. when the news reporter was again spotted in the neighborhood. Being on the phone with the primary witness, I asked if he could get the attention of the news reporter so I could speak with him over the telephone. He did so and walked to the porch with the telephone, handing it Mr. Glenn Stephens of WFMJ Channel 21 in Youngstown, Ohio. I introduced myself to the reporter and explained that I investigate UFO sighting reports and asked him if he saw the object in question. "I did see it," Mr. Stephens said. "I saw it earlier tonight, it's really distant." Stephens said there were 5 or 6 people standing around when he arrived. He described the object as an 'unusual light.' I asked if he felt confident the object was not a star and he said "No, I am not confidant. I have no idea what this is so it could be anything." I asked the reporter if he saw the 5 to 7 'white lights' drawn to the main object and he informed that he did not see this. I asked the reporter if the police officer had also observed the object and he said: "Yes, the policeman did see the object." For clarification, I asked Mr. Stephens if he was certain the police officer saw the object and the reporter said: "Yes, he told me he did, we were looking at it at the same time." Mr. Stephens said that at the present time the object was not visible as clouds have obscured it. FOLLOW UP WITH THE PRIMARY WITNESS After our previous discussion a few hours earlier he went back to the school yard but the object was apparently gone at that time. He left from there and drove to the police department to speak with the watch commander (apparently troubled at my reporting to him that the officer denied seeing the UFO). He was informed that the officer he was in the field with, observing the UFO with him, had not yet called in to headquarters to report the sighting. The duty officer further told him that the officer in question was not likely to file a report, saying: "who is he going to file it to?" The witness said that he intends to call back later to try and speak directly with the officer. He also said that at some point there was an emergency situation that came up locally, perhaps a shooting, as the reporter had left and ambulances were seen driving through the area. FURTHER DESCRIPTION OF OBJECT Our discussion went back to a description of the object, which he said was clearly some sort of 'craft.' He said this object had a red light situated directly underneath it with a green light on its left side from his perspective at an angle 45 degree angle down. Circling around the center of the round object, like the equator around a globe, were bright yellow lights that he said were comparable to mini 'tracer' lights that blinked in a circle. When asked again for some detail of the smaller white objects that supposedly drew into the main object, he said the smaller objects seemed to make contact with the main object by either 'going inside' the main object or disappearing behind it. He felt that the white objects made physical contact with the main object and did so one at a time as opposed to simultaneously. I offered the possibility that this object was a blimp and the witness said: "I totally rule out a blimp. If it was a blimp it had unnatural speed. At one point it went from the one place in the western sky to another place to the north in less than 30 seconds, there's no way it was a blimp. INQUIRY WITH YOUNGSTOWN AIRPORT I asked the witness if he would call the Youngstown airport to check and see if the tower controller could confirm that a blimp had been operational in the area during the past few hours. He agreed to do so and placed a phone call to the Youngstown Airport at 330-856-1537 at Extension #9, asking the gentleman taking the call if there had been any blimps in the area. The man at the airport said "no" there had not been any blimps in the area. COMMENT The wife of the primary witness said she has recorded video of the object. She also said that it is 'not coming out good' and difficult to see. The primary claimant said he doesn't think the 5 or so 'white lights' which supposedly went 'into' the main object was caught on video, but hasn't checked as of yet. One curious aspect of this story is how the Youngstown police department soundly informs that their officer did NOT see anything while at the same time the primary witness AND the reporter affirm that the officer DID see and observe this same object with them in their company. Also for the record, it should be noted that this primary claimant is the one who reported the odd event taking place on Rt. 11 in Trumbull County several weeks ago as per a message by Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center posted on the Current Encounters discussion forum. Mr. Davenport did send me contact info for this person and I did speak with him at length previously, sending a copy of my report on our conversation directly to Mr. Davenport. I was impressed by the sincerity of the witness and his concern for the answer to what he reportedly saw. Since the event several weeks ago he has apparently been alert for other curious activity and so was the one to first take note of the object sighted before midnight. FILED 4:00 a.m. Monday August 26, 2002 KENNY YOUNG -- NOTE: The NATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE is coming to the Kings Island Resort & Conference Center in Cincinnati, Ohio on Saturday, September 28, 2002, beginning at 2:00 p.m. For more information, check the website at http://home.fuse.net/ufo or call 513-588-4548
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 26 Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - August 26 From: Stephen G. Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 04:11:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:42:41 -0400 Subject: Disclosure2003 Campaign Update - August 26 D I S C L O S U R E 2 0 0 3 MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett August 26, 2002 - Update (To: Combined D2003/X-PPAC/PRG Mail Lists) Two candidates for the November ballot are now set: Constance Morella, the Republican incumbent running unopposed, and the D2003 independent candidate, Stephen Bassett. The third person will be determined in the Democratic primary on September 10. Between now and then, D2003 has two primary tasks: 1) begin an expanded fund raising process and 2) break into the political TV talk arena. A House candidate can reach 90% of the registered voters in their district with the essential campaign message on a budget of $50,000. The two main parties will spend about $10 million in hard and soft money on this House race (likely the highest in the country). Most of that will go toward relentless and ultimately irritating TV ads drumming in platitudes. D2003, because of the unique and powerful aspects of its core issue, has a good chance of accessing free political talk TV. How to help out? *** If you have any inclination to support this campaign, your contribution is needed NOW: $1,000 limit, U.S. citizens, no corporations, NOT tax deductible. Made out to: Disclosure2003 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 *** If you have a venue, or know someone who has a venue to hold a private home fund raiser where interested friends or associates can meet and hear the candidate, please contact D2003 and someone will get back to you immediately. (The candidate will be in California between September 13-16 and can alter arrival and departure dates as needed should a fund raiser be scheduled.) *** All of the political talk shows have now been contacted directly. Most of them also have email addresses or email forms for viewer program suggestions. Consider sending a quick email prompting them to have Stephen Bassett on as a guest to discuss the unique ET/Disclosure aspect of the campaign. Addresses are shown below: (The first three listings are the primary targets right now and deserve a little extra focus.) CNN - Larry King Email Form www.cnn.com > Larry King >look for "email producers" on left CNN - Connie Chung ConnieChungTonight@CNN.com MSNBC - Donahue Show donahue@msnbc.com Fox News Beltway Boys w/ Fred Barnes, Mort Kondracke Beltway@foxnews.com Fox News Sunday w/ Tony Snow FNS@foxnews.com Special Report w/ Brit Hume Special@foxnews.com Big Story w/ John Gibson Myword@foxnews.com Fox and Friends w/ Edie Hill Friends@foxnews.com Fox Report w/ Shepard Smith Foxreport@foxnews.com Your World w/ Neil Cavuto Cavuto@foxnews.com Hannity and Colmes Colmes@foxnews.com On the Record w/ Greta Van Susteren Ontherecord@foxnews.com O'Reilly Factor w/ Bill O'Reilly Oreilly@foxnews.com At Large w/ Geraldo Rivera atlarge@foxnews.com Judith Regan Tonight w/ Judith Regan Regan@foxnews.com Fox News Watch w/ Eric Burns Newswatch@foxnews.com Fox Magazine w/ Laurie Dhue Foxmagazine@foxnews.com Fox Wire w/ Rita Cosby Foxwire@foxnews.com Fox News - Weekend Edition comments@foxnews.com CNN Inside Politics w/ Judy Woodruff InsidePolitics@CNN.com Late Edition w/ Wolf Blitzer late.edition@cnn.com Newsnight w/ Aaron Brown NewsNight@cnn.com Reliable Sources w/ Howard Kurtz, Bernard Kalb Reliable@CNN.com Talk Back Live w/ Arthel Neville TalkBack@CNN.com MSNBC Abrams Report w/ Dan Abrams AbramsReport@MSNBC.com Across America w/ Ashleigh Banfield banfield@msnbc.com Hardball with Chris Matthews Hardball@msnbc.com Nachman patricia.peart@msnbc.com ABC News This Week Email Form www.abcnews.com > This Week > look for email show link Good Morning America Email Form www.abcnews.com > GMA > look for email show link NBC News Meet the Press MTP@nbc.com [Addresses grouped for easy Blind Copy bulk mail} Beltway@foxnews.com FNS@foxnews.com Special@foxnews.com Myword@foxnews.com Friends@foxnews.com Foxreport@foxnews.com Cavuto@foxnews.com Colmes@foxnews.com Ontherecord@foxnews.com Oreilly@foxnews.com atlarge@foxnews.com Regan@foxnews.com Newswatch@foxnews.com Foxmagazine@foxnews.com Foxwire@foxnews.com comments@foxnews.com ConnieChungTonight@CNN.com InsidePolitics@CNN.com late.edition@cnn.com NewsNight@cnn.com Reliable@CNN.com TalkBack@CNN.com AbramsReport@MSNBC.com banfield@msnbc.com Hardball@msnbc.com patricia.peart@msnbc.com MTP@nbc.com And please don't hesitate to spread the word about D2003 via your own mail Lists and websites. Thanks. SB _________________________________________________ Transparent government, private citizenry _________________________________________________ Campaign Headquarters Bethesda/Gaithersburg 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 Phone: 301-990-4290 Fax: 301-990-1099 Email: Disclosure2003@aol.com Website: www.disclosure2003.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 26 John Day? From: Philip Mantle <philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:15:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:45:28 -0400 Subject: John Day? Dear Colleagues, I wonder could you possibly be of some assistance. I am trying to locate the whereabouts of British abductee John Day. John's experience took place at Aveley, in Essex, back in the 1970's. If anyone does know where I might be able to contact John I would appreciate it if they could contact me direct at: philip.mantle@eidosnet.co.uk Yours sincerely, Philip Mantle
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 26 Addendum - D2003 Campaign Update - August 26 From: Stephen G. Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:55:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:51:57 -0400 Subject: Addendum - D2003 Campaign Update - August 26 D I S C L O S U R E 2 0 0 3 MD 8th District Congressional Campaign of Stephen Bassett August 26 Update - Addendum Several important programs to alert about the D2003 campaign were left off the list just sent out. They are provided below. Also, the Update forgot to mention that the next staff party, a big one, is going to happen on Saturday, August 31. Anyone living in the Washington metro area who is now thinking they want to get directly involved in the campaign, please email Disclosure2003@aol.com and party details will be emailed back to you ASAP. This would be a great opportunity to meet the rest of the staff and find out if getting on board is the right thing to do. Other political talk shows for possible contact: [Note: Washington Journal is a very good possibility for a guest slot and warrants some focus.] C-SPAN Washington Journal w/ Brian Lamb journal@c-span.org PBS Charlie Rose - Email Form www.charlierose.com/index.shtm Find: "Email the Producers" on the left News Hour w/ Jim Lehrer newshour@pbs.org Think Tank w/ Ben Wattenberg thinktank@pbs.org Tony Brown's Journal mail@tbol.net MSNBC Buchanan & Press w/ Pat & Bill ann.klenk@msnbc.com ABC Nightline Email Form Go to: http://abcnews.go.com/Sections/Nightline/ Find: "Email Nightline" on the right under Resources Thanks, SB _________________________________________________ Transparent government, private citizenry _________________________________________________ Campaign Headquarters Bethesda/Gaithersburg 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 Phone: 301-990-4290 Fax: 301-990-1099 Email: Disclosure2003@aol.com Website: www.disclosure2003.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 27 Secrecy News -- 08/27/02 From: Steven Aftergood<saftergood@fas.org> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:30:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:14:02 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/27/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 83 August 27, 2002 ** FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE COURT OPENS UP ** APPEALS COURT BLASTS CLOSED IMMIGRATION HEARINGS ** A LITTLE LEGAL MISDIRECTION FROM THE CIA FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE COURT OPENS UP More information about the legal principles of domestic surveillance of suspected foreign intelligence and terrorist targets has become public in the past week than for many years before. The proximate cause of the new disclosures was a Senate Judiciary Committee request to the Justice Department for a copy of a secret court ruling on surveillance practices. The Ashcroft Justice Department characteristically rebuffed the request. But Senators Leahy, Specter and Grassley then turned to the famously secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance (FIS) Court, which authorizes surveillance and searches for counterintelligence and counterterrorism purposes. Remarkably, the court responded with a small flood of previously inaccessible documents. Among them was a May 2002 FIS Court opinion which criticized and revised the Justice Department's latest procedures for sharing information between intelligence officials and law enforcement personnel. While Congress had clearly intended to reduce the barriers to such information sharing, the Court found that the Justice Department procedures had instead nearly eliminated them. Further, the Court said the procedures seemed intended to abuse foreign intelligence surveillance authority for ordinary law enforcement purposes. "The 2002 procedures appear to be designed to amend the law and substitute the FISA [i.e. the less demanding intelligence surveillance standards] for Title III electronic surveillances [i.e. the more demanding law enforcement standards]. This may be because the government is unable to meet the substantive requirements of these law enforcement tools, or because their administrative burdens are too onerous." The Court also revealed that false statements had been made by the FBI in years past on more than 75 occasions in seeking surveillance authorizations. See the Court's May 2002 Memorandum Opinion and Order here: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/fisc051702.html The New York Times today refers to the Justice Department's 2002 procedures that were reviewed by the Court as "secret regulations." But they are no longer secret, having been released by the Court last week (through the Senate Judiciary Committee). See a copy of the March 2002 "Intelligence Sharing Procedures for Foreign Intelligence and Foreign Counterintelligence Investigations Conducted by the FBI" here: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/ag030602.html On August 21, the Justice Department filed an appeal with the three-member Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Review Court, challenging the FIS Court's May ruling. Far from being cowed by the May decision, the Department's appeal argues vigorously and rather persuasively that the FIS Court misinterpreted the requirements of last year's USA Patriot Act. See the slightly redacted text of the Department's August 21 appeal here: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/082102appeal.html Much of the abundant commentary on the new court ruling and the Justice Department's appeal has been marred by extreme characterizations, erroneous claims and righteous indignation to the point that one almost despairs of having a serious conversation about the important issues involved. But two critical editorials in the Washington Post have the unusual virtue of being informed by a reading of the actual documents. See "The Limits of Trust" (Aug. 23, 26): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51447- 2002Aug22.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61147- 2002Aug25.html APPEALS COURT BLASTS CLOSED IMMIGRATION HEARINGS In the latest rebuke to Bush Administration secrecy policy, a federal appeals court ruled that "blanket closure" of deportation hearings for September 11 detainees held on immigration violations is not permissible. Judge Damon J. Keith embellished his decision with several rhetorical flights on behalf of the First Amendment. "Democracies die behind closed doors. The First Amendment, through a free press, protects the people's right to know that their government acts fairly, lawfully, and accurately in deportation proceedings. When government begins closing doors, it selectively controls information rightfully belonging to the people. Selective information is misinformation. The Framers of the First Amendment 'did not trust any government to separate the true from the false for us.'... They protected the people against secret government." See the August 26 court ruling here: http://pacer.ca6.uscourts.gov/cgi- bin/getopn.pl?OPINION=02a0291p.06 A LITTLE LEGAL MISDIRECTION FROM THE CIA Whenever it finally denies a Freedom of Information Act request, the Central Intelligence Agency always advises the requester that "you have the right to seek judicial review of this determination in a United States district court." But sometimes that's not true, and the requester effectively has no such right. Last week, the CIA issued a final denial of a 1995 FOIA request for disclosure of the fiscal year 1995 and 1996 intelligence budget totals. (The FY 1997 and 1998 figures were declassified several years ago, under pressure of litigation, but America's premier intelligence agency evidently believes that prior budget information -- dating back to 1947 -- becomes more sensitive with time and must remain classified.) As usual, the CIA denial letter held out the possibility of judicial review. But in this case, it was false and misleading. The problem is that there is a six year statute of limitations for filing Freedom of Information Act litigation. Because CIA had inexplicably drawn out its denial process for more than six years since the 1995 FOIA request became eligible for review, the right to seek judicial intervention had expired. Any attempt to file suit at this point would be met with an immediate CIA motion for dismissal, citing the statute of limitations. (Secrecy News learned this the hard way earlier this year.) On the other hand, filing suit before a final agency denial has been issued generally meets with the objection that the requester has "failed to exhaust administrative remedies." Secrecy News wrote to the CIA Inspector General this week suggesting that it would be preferable if the CIA henceforth did not include false promises of a right of judicial review in its Freedom of Information Act correspondence. Then maybe the Agency could think about developing reasonable classification criteria and a functional FOIA program. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 27 HUFOBC Gets Weekly Radio Show From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:46:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:20:00 -0400 Subject: HUFOBC Gets Weekly Radio Show Hi List, I just had some really good news. I had an email from Adam Thompson, an announcer for the Mix and CJFW FM radio. He is going to interview me today. We'll be talking about the release of the Canadian Communicator this September 15, 2002 and the sightings around Northern British Columbia. To my surprise, Adam Thompson asked if I would do a weekly show on radio to give the listeners here in British Columbia an update on what is going on. I jumped at a wonderful opportunity. So this, gang, is excellent news. Take care and back to work I go. Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 27 Proof? From: Anon <xxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 19:03:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:28:05 -0400 Subject: Proof? [This poster is known to me--ebk] Let's do a mind experiment. You are in Miami on the beach and you have a nice 12 foot long model boat equipped with GPS, long range remote control (500 miles), but no cameras or imaging devices. Your control box has a map display so you can see where it is, what direction it is going and it's speed. You put the boat in the water and start it off heading due east at 12 knots, it's full speed. As the boat reaches the horizon it disappears from sight but you continue to follow on your remote control box display screen. As the boat reaches 150 miles offshore you notice that it's speed has increased to 35 knots, positioning on the GPS map display confirms it. You scratch your head; What caused the speed increase? The boat could have been hauled aboard a cigarette boat. Maybe a helicopter. Swallowed by a whale? There seems to be many possibilities that could explain it but which is correct? Could the Bermuda triangle be the cause? Suddenly your signal is lost and so is your boat. Now you have two things to consider. Scientific explanations and impossible explanations. No boat, no evidence. Science can only guess. The unknown is also a guess. The two are equal. One guess and only one guess is the correct guess. Now consider the Pioneer Spacecraft. The one with the speed change that science is having difficulty explaining."We've been working on this problem for several years, and we have accounted for everything we could think of."and.."The unexplained force appears to be acting on four deep-space probes scattered around the Solar System." Except one thing, the obvious. As the deep-space probes violated the laws of physics, at least to the 'trained eye', what is left to consider about this "unexplained force"?Is this UF phenomena explainable in other terms? Men make crop circles. Apparently other crop circles arise that outdistances the ability of men to make. UC - unexplained circles. What if: Men make KC - known circles, and something else responds with other circles, UC?UF, UC are related? What if: UFO picked up deep-space probes, examined them, put them back without proper speed adjustments to fool the scientists? Was it a helicopter or cigarette boat that examined your model boat?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 35 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:05:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:30:14 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 7 Number 35 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 7, Number 35 August 27, 2002 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ INDIAN INTELLIGENCE SETS A TRAP FOR ROVING ALIEN With a death toll now exceeding 12, and new sightings reported throughout the state of Uttar Pradesh, India's Intelligence Bureau has set a trap for the UFO known as Muhnochwa (Hindi for Face Scorcher--J.T.). "With five visuals of what is feared as the Muhnochwa 'trapped' on videotape--three of which were recorded by the team of intelligence sleuths in the state--the scare does not seem to be unfounded." "The sleuths who had worked on the Muhnochwa (case) did not rule out the possibility of the presence of an extraterrestrial body (ETB) with electromagnetic effects in at least three percent of the cases. While the Indian agencies have yet to admit the presence of an ETB, foreign research agencies, intelligence reports said, have already been to the affected areas, met the witnesses and collected necessary data." "Sources said that after going through the videotapes provided by the wife of a lawyer in Mirzapur and another frame recorded by a resident in Sitapur, which has the flash of light speeding from one end of the lens to another within a second, an intelligence team reached Sitapur on (Wednesday) August 7 (2002) and set up an ingeniously-designed observatory." "A base of a (cement) mixer-grinder was fitted with lights of the colours that the victims had narrated before the team, varying from orange, yellow, green to the most common red and blue combination. The apparatus was put on a height in total darkness. The idea behind the exercise was that the ETB may take note of something resembling it and might come near it. And it did." "At 1:05 a.m., a flash of light neared the apparatus. 'It was like the photocopier's top plate with the sharp light while taking impressions,' revealed a member of the (Indian Intelligence Bureau or IIB) team." "The team of experts also conducted a study by filling out questionnaires on the basis of the experiences of the victims from Mirzapur, Bhadohi, Varanasi, Jaunpur, Sitapur, Hardoi, Bara Banki, Rae Bareli, Lucknow and Sitapur. Out of a sample study of 100 injured victims, ten were found to be victims of an insect bite or scratch. Another ten suffered the injuries indirectly (like bruises while running after a scare in the night). The remaining (80) had one or more of the following:" "(1) Experiencing electric shock;" "(2) Seeing sharp light;" "(3) Feeling a hard round object." "Out of 80 people, 65 were found to have suffered physical injuries, and there were three who tried to overpower the ETB." "'All three had suffered hundreds of scars, as if caused by a blade, on the palm (of their hands--J.T.), and it was inexplicable by any team member,' said an expert who examined the injuries, adding that this was what raised the possibilities of an ETB being out there." "But there is indeed a long way to go before these experts could come up with anything conclusive on the Muhnochwa scare." "However, Dr. N.K. Mehrotra, professor at the Department of Physics at Lucknow University, said that such possibilities are remote. 'It may be out of atmospheric changes that such things might have occurred, and there are people who might had added a dimension of mischief to it by putting a man-made thing in the air.'" "C.D. Sharma, manager of ISTRAC, too expressed his doubts over possibilities of an ETB. 'I do not know what type of a study has been conducted and what were the findings, but with what I have gathered from the media reports, the ETB theory remains unconvincing,' he said in an interview" with the Times of India. (See the Times of India for August 18, 2002, "ETs invade UP, says IB." Many thanks to Prasant Solomon, UFO Roundup's correspondent in India, for this newspaper article.) (Editor's Note: To our readers who live "Up North," like your editor, the UP in that headline refers to Uttar Pradesh, not Michigan's Upper Peninsula.) UFO AND TWO F-16s TANGLE IN WEST CENTRAL TEXAS On Wednesday, August 23, 2002, at approximately 9:30 p.m., eyewitness L.H. "was outside" at her ranch in Baird, Texas (population 1,623) "feeding the animals, and I heard a fighter jet, which is very unusual in our area," located about 20 miles (32 kilometers) southeast of Abilene. "When I found (spotted) the (F-16) jet, it was moving at a very high rate of speed. Looking around, I noticed another jet moving much slower. The second jet was flying next to an object with dim yellow-orange lights." "It was very obvious that the first jet was heading straight toward the second jet and the object. The object was much larger than the other jet. The object's lights numbered about eight to ten. I know it wasn't a plane because none of the lights were blinking strobes (navigation lights--J.T.) like the jets, and there was no engine noise. The object's lights were all the same color and never blinked. The object was a diamond-type shape, only the lights were visible. The object was five to eight thousand feet (1,500 to 2,400 meters) high." "The first jet came from the south. When first sighted, it was directly above me and headed north- northwest. Departure estimate (speed) of 100 to 200 miles per hour (160 to 320 kilometers per hour)." Baird, Texas is in Callahan County, at the intersection of Interstate Highway I-20 and state Highway 283. Interestingly, the site of this encounter is only 100 miles (160 kilometers) northwest of Crawford, Texas (population 705). President George W. Bush is currently spending his summer vacation at his ranch in Crawford. (Email Form Report) ANIMALS FOUND MUTILATED NEAR CACHI, ARGENTINA Farm animals were found mutilated last week near Cachi, a town in Salta province in northern Argentina which has been the site of numerous UFO sightings since February 2002. The strange nature of the mutilations has kindled fears among residents that Cachi has a colony of Chupacabras in the vicinity like its counterpart 300 kilometers (180 miles) to the west--the small city of Calama in Chile. "The discovery of three large, dead and completely exsanguinated (drained of blood--J.T.) goats, with their flesh intact and completely black, has caused concern among the residents of Fuerte Alto, located some 3 kilometers (2 miles) west of Cachi, on the slopes of the towering El Nevado de Cachi (mountain)." "The find, which rekindles the Chupacabra myth, took place on Wednesday," August 14, 2002, "at first light, by Maria Laura Liendro, the animals' owner. One of her nephews told her that the night before (Tuesday, August 13, 2002, the goats) had been attacked 'by a strange being some 80 centimeters (2 feet, 6 inches) tall, with a short tail and dense fur.'" "The woman notified the (Argentinian) police immediately, and a swift investigation began." "'We are certain that there is no need to attribute these events to strange matters. All of the signs point to the animals having been attacked by one or more pumas (mountain lion or cougar in the USA--J.T.), something which is quite common in the area,' said Tomas Oscar Lopez, the local sheriff, to El Tribuno reporters, calling the case closed." "However, his conclusions were rebutted by veterinarian Carlos Arjona, who also visited Fuerte Alto to check the animals." "'This is evidently not the work of a feline. I don't know what could have caused the goats' deaths, but I can say that I do not agree with the police estimation. I inspected three carcasses and found strange things. In two of the carcasses, I was able to see puncture marks that pierced the animals' jugular (vein). They appeared to have been made by very sharp and very long canines (teeth), to judge from the depth they achieved,' indicated the professional. 'The other carcass showed signs of similar lesions, but in the sternum, evidently made when the animals were alive. Likewise, there are also marks of two extremely long, sharp canines,' explained Arjona." "The veterinarian pointed out two extraordinary findings from his analysis: 'The animals' flesh had turned completely black and did not have a single drop of blood.'" "Roque Desiderio Lera could not shake off his amazement yesterday," Thursday, August 15, 2002. "No sooner had he gotten out of bed, he checked his flock (of sheep) and found a terrible surprise. Ten of the animals were dead, and four more struggled for life amid puddles of blood." "The event that led to the killings probably took place between the early morning hours and sunrise in the El Quipon area, 3 kilometers (2 miles) north of Cachi, on the banks of the Rio Calchaqui. Despairing over the loss of his sheep, the shepherd, age 42, immediately alerted the authorities, who sent out a team to determine the reasons behind the odd and fierce attack." "Also in attendance was veterinarian Carlos Arjona, who had examined the carcasses of the three bloodless goats found on Wednesday," August 14, 2002, "showing injuries caused by the strange and prominent incisors of 'an unknown animal' in Fuerte Alto, 5 kilometers (3 miles) west of El Quipon, at the foot of El Nevado de Cachi." "These cases add the necessary amount of fuel with which to stoke the flames that feed the Chupacabra myth." "The police are convinced that the animals at El Quipon were attacked by 'large dogs,' although a tracker and woodsman" named "Aaron Mamani, known for his abilities as a gaucho (Argentinian cowboy--J.T.) told El Tribuno that 'such a thing is impossible.'" "Mamani noted that 'the deaths of ten animals and the resulting injuries inflicted to the others cannot have been produced by one, two, three or four dogs, but by at least twenty. I know every centimeter of the hills, gorges and open areas of Cachi, Molinos and La Poma and have never seen nor heard of packs of wild dogs in the area.'" Mamani, "accompanied by UFO researcher Antonio Zuleta--who has collected surprising videotapes of the UFOs in Chalquian (local) skies--engaged in a footprint- searching task to find clues that could reveal the mystery of the slaughter of Roque Desiderio Lera's flock." "'We found strange tracks,' said the gaucho, similar to those found in Fuerte Alto, although somewhat smaller (they only measured 12 inches or 30 centimeters--S.C.) I can assure you that they are not dog tracks.'" "Veterinarian Carlos Arjona, however, disputed Mamani's point of view, noting that the tracks belonged to a wild dog that might have been driven out of its own habitat by deforestation." Area residents "like Maria Laura Liendro of Fuerte Alto have chosen to transfer their animals to lower and safer areas. Roque Desiderio Lera takes a more radical approach: he will remain on guard with his shotgun loaded." (See the Argentinian newspaper El Tribuno for August 16, 2002, "Three exsanguinated goats at the foot of El Nevado" and "Ten more dead sheep." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi, Alicia Rossi y Mercedes Casas para esos articulos de diario.) UFO KNOCKS OUT POLICE VEHICLES IN ARGENTINA The Argentinian UFO group Centro Ufologico Riocuartense (Spanish for UFO Center of Rio Cuarto--J.T.) is currently interviewing eyewitnesses who claim that a UFO knocked out the engines of a few police vehicles in south central Cordoba province the night of Sunday, July 21, 2002. According to Mario Luis Bracamonte of COR, police Sgt. Guillermo Arias observed a 200-meter (660-foot) long "triangular device" over Chajan, a town 60 kilometers (36 miles) southeast of Rio Cuarto. COR "has collected extensive commentary from other eyewitness accounts, varied measurements and in situ (on- site) measurements," Bracamonte said, "The evidence is being analyzed in detail in order not to overlook any aspects." "COR is now investigating a report which claims that just before the Arias experience, 'a firefighter and a policeman were besieged in their official vehicles by a luminous unidentified flying object with a powerful violet beam.' They did add that the event occurred moments before Arias's episode and almost in a straight line in a north-south direction" between Chajan and Suco. (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Mario Luis Bracamonte para eso informe.) A STRANGE TALE FROM THE VIENNA WOODS R.W. is "a reptile specialist" who has worked for several European museums. He's seen some strange sights in his career but nothing as strange as what he saw last week near Vienna, the capital of Austria. "It's not a UFO but a related (Fortean) subject I want to report," R.W. wrote. On Monday, August 19, 2002, "I was out in the morning to collect mushrooms near a small village called Wolfsgraben in the Vienna Woods," he reported, "Up on a hill I suddenly saw a big swarm of very large birds, containing more than 100 specimens. Strange, I thought, it's not time for the birds' migration yet." "One of the 'birds' left the group and sailed down to circle me for about five minutes or so. I could see it really clear, and, I swear, I have never heard of, or seen, a photo of a 'bird' like that." "It had a long and bald head with a long beak, and something prolonging the head stuck out from its hindskull. It really rather looked more like a pterodactyl than a bird. The only difference was that it was covered with feathers. It had a body like a penguin and a long neck, also short legs. It had a white breast and belly, while the rest of it was totally black. The size of its wings (wingspread--J.T.) was more than 2 meters (6 feet, 7 inches)." "I was thinking for a long time if I should report this to you. But, to me, it seems totally clear that a new species has shown up." (Email Report) (Editor's Note: In Forteana, this is what we call an out-of-place animal case. Perhaps an ornithology major can identify the bird. It's possible that the flock diverted to Austria after being driven out of its habitat by the horrendous floods in central Europe last week.) CHUPACABRA KILLS NINE SHEEP IN NICARAGUA "The evil goat-and-sheep-killing monster appears to have returned to the stage. While goats, its main victims, rest in the sleep of the dead, terror has gripped the farmers of the country's central region, mainly Rio Blanco." "Yes, the Chupcabra has reappeared, this time slaying nine Pelibuey sheep and injuring seven others." Two years ago, "a farmer from Malpaisillo in" Nicaragua's state of "Leon commanded news headlines even in foreign countries by claiming to have slain the blood-drinking beast. This means that there is a new one at Rio Blanco, according to locals." "But there is a Nicaraguan from Corn Island who has his own theory after numerous encounters with these third-rate Draculas." "Prof. David Castillo, a resident of beautiful Corn Island, contacted El Nuevo Diario after the latest attacks of the Chupacabra appeared in the media. He told us of his experiences with these creatures during his stay at Dr. Moises Arana's estate in southern Nicaragua, and he also caught some." "'Dr. Arana had cattle, and five cows had been bitten on the neck. My brother and I kept watch all night until the bloodsuckers appeared.'" "But the beings described by Castillo have nothing to do with the dire scarecrows described in accounts the world over." "'They're great bats,' says Castillo, adding that the immense chiropterids measure up to a meter and a half (5 feet) between wing and outstretched wing. They are so aggressive, he says, that they attack several prey at once and, since they draw enormous amounts of blood from the victims, they often die." "'People believe they are creatures from outer space and are four-legged, but that's not the case. They fly and live in the wilderness.'" "To confirm that he speaks authoritatively on the subject, Castillo says he worked seven years for the (Nicaraguan) Ministry of Health (Spanish acronym MINSA-- J.T.) on the eradication of tropical diseases such as rabies. In other words, he is knowledgeable about 'vampires.'" "'In order to catch them, first we cut tree limbs, take the leaves and then shake them in the air to make a sound similar to that of the vampire bats. Confused, the creatures arrive, looking for their peers. Then we hit them with sticks until they fall down. They have very long fangs, radar on their noses, and resemble foxes to a surprising degree,' he adds." "Prof. Castillo is not superstitious. He advises those who believe in the Chupacabras to forget about it. 'They're vampire bats,' he reiterates." (See the newspaper El Nuevo Diario de Nicaragua for August 19, 2002, "Vampires or Chupacabras?" Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para eso articulo de diario.) YELLOW-ORANGE UFO SEEN IN JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA On Friday, August 23, 2002, at 6 a.m., David McNabb spotted a glowing object approaching from the east, from the Atlantic Ocean. He reported, "I was outside at around 6 a.m. and looked up because I had spotted a plane moving southeast, toward the Orion constellation. The sky was crystal clear, not a cloud in sight. The moon was on the other side of the horizon, west, behind the trees" in the Mandarin section of Jacksonville, Florida (population 735,617). "However, just up and to the left of the plane was a yellowish-orange light. I saw it fade in. It just faded in. It did not flash or blink. It was a steady soft glow." "It retreated almost directly east and was actually moving slower than the plane, or so it seemed. It followed a straight line toward the Orion constellation and, after passing under Orion's belt, (it) just faded out. The duration of the event was possibly 30 to 40 seconds." "It appeared to me to be a fuzzy ball of yellowish- orange light that glowed softly. It did not blink or flash, only glowed steadily. It appeared to be higher than the plane and appeared to move slower than the plane. The speed of the object never changed. It was steady and straight." (Email Form Report) (Editor's Comment: File this report under UFOs of the Bermuda Triangle.) LUMINOUS UFOs SIGHTED IN BRITISH COLUMBIA UFOs appeared on three consecutive nights last week in a wilderness area 64 kilometers (40 miles) from Houston, British Columbia, Canada. According to ufologist Brian Vike, a logging contractor and his crew were working on Chisholm Road, well away from Houston, on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 and "watched two lights, one they thought was an aircraft, and it did have strobe lights (navigation lights--J.T.) on it, and the other just a faint dot of white light. Both of these lights were flying towards each other, and, as they got closer, the witnesses said it appeared as if they were circling each other over a long distance." Then "the white dot left in a southwesterly direction and was followed by what they thought was a normal aircraft of some kind. Their last sight of both lights was as they flew over and behind" Morice Mountain. The logging contractor contacted Brian Vike by telephone. Two nights later, on Friday, August 16, 2002, at 4 a.m., the Canadian ufologist was with the logging crew at the Chisholm Road site. Brian reported, "The time was 4:10 a.m. when I spotted a dim white light flying slowly across the sky just above the horizon toward Morice Mountain. Then a large white light caught my attention. It was as if an aircraft was close to us and shone his spotlight in our direction, as it was so bright." Houston, B.C. (population 3,934) is on Provincial Highway 16 about 500 miles (800 kilometers) north of Vancouver. (Email Form Report) BLACK HELICOPTER SEEN OVER WASHINGTON, D.C. Black helicopter reports continue to trickle in from the USA's East Coast. On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 1 p.m., the male witness reported, "While out at lunch today, my date and I saw a very shiny black Huey (UH-1D) helicopter hovering above the buildings between K Street N.W. and Dupont Circle, between 17th and 20th Streets N.W." in Washington, D.C., about 3 miles (5 kilometers) north of the White House. "I saw it first when I was walking to lunch. Then my date and I saw it hovering over the Cosi near Buffalo Billiards near Dupont (Circle). There were no markings. It was lacquer black and not matte, and it was a Huey similar to the Vietnam Era Air Cavalry transports. The doors were shut, and there didn't seem to be anything different about it, except for zero FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) or military or police insignias. Spotted at first around 12:30 p.m. and last seen at 1:30 p.m. Did anybody else see it?" (Email Report) AN ALIEN MESSAGE IN A UK CROP CIRCLE? A strange crop circle was discovered in a field of wheat (corn in UK--J.T.) at 9:30 a.m. on Friday, August 16, 2002. The circle was found at Vale Farm, next to the Crabwood Forest in Pitt, a village near Winchester, Hampshire, UK. According to Linda Moulton Howe, "The circle partially overlapping the alien visage appears to contain digital information comprised of ones and zeroes. The information is represented on 8-bit data segments of identical length, all bit portions being equally marked. There is a narrow separator or synchronisation bit or ridge between the 8-bit data fields. The language is international English. The (code) circle is read from the inside out or counter-clockwise." The cryptanalyst who claims to have decoded the sequence says the message is as follows: "Beware the bearers of broken gifts and their broken promises. Much pain but still time. There is good out there. We oppose deception. Conduit clearing." In other crop circle news, a new formation was found on a farm in Atwater, Saskatchewan, Canada. "The five- circle quintuplet formation" was found Tuesday, August 20, 2002. "The large circle was approximately 15 metres (50 feet) in diameter and was surrounded by four smaller circles approximately 2.4 metres (8 feet) in diameter each. The centre circle also has a burned ring inside." The Atwater case is being investigated by Daniel Clairmont and Paul Anderson of Canadian Crop Circles Research Network (CCRN). (Many thanks to Linda Moulton Howe, T. Peter Park and Paul Anderson for these reports.) From the UFO Files... 1927: HOORAY FOR HOLLYWEIRD Movie trivia time! What was pop diva Mariah Carey's feature film debut? Answer: A 1999 film, The Bachelor, which starred Chris O'Donnell and Renee Zellweger. Mariah had a small part as an opera singer. Right? Well...maybe... Seventy-five years ago, in December 1927, a movie called London After Midnight opened at the Capitol Theatre in New York City. The Todd Browning film starred Lon Chaney Sr., also known as "The Master of a Thousand Faces," then one of MGM's biggest stars. Chaney is also considered the Father of American Horror Films, having played the title roles in such silent-movie classics as The Hunchback of Notre Dame, He Who Gets Slapped and The Phantom of the Opera. (Editor's Note: From 1915 to 1927, movies were made without sound. In these "silent" movies, every so often, a dialogue box would appear onscreen, telling the audience what the actors were saying and helping the story along. All this changed, however, six weeks before London After Midnight debuted, when an actor named Al Jolson appeared onscreen in The Jazz Singer and forever changed the face of cinema by saying aloud, "You ain't seen nothing yet, folks!") In London After Midnight, Lon Chaney plays "Inspector Burke of Scotland Yard." The film reveals how five years earlier Inspector Burke investigated the shooting death of Sir Roger Balfour and determined it a "suicide." But now he's not so sure, and he wants to reopen the case. Especially now that he's heard that Sir Roger is missing from the family crypt and is prowling Hampshire by night as a vampire. The choice of "Burke" as Lon Chaney's character name is an odd one, since the actor has a second unbilled role in the film as "Hare." Burke and Hare, get it? No, Burke and Hare were not an early Nineteenth Century comedy team. They were a couple of Scottish graverobbers who used to dig up recently-buried cadavers and sell them to the University of Edinburgh Medical School. Then, when the supply of cadavers ran low, the boys decided to "drum up some business" by accosting travelers on the King's Highway and...well, you get the idea. The movie opens with a dancing green spotlight, followed by the flash of a gunshot. As usual, Lon Chaney does not appear as himself at first but arrives onscreen in a clever disguise, after which he manifests his abilities as "Scotland Yard's foremost hypnotist." Shortly thereafter, Chaney shows up at a theatre and talks to a witness about Sir Roger Balfour. In the background is a young female opera singer. Blink and you'll probably miss her. She sure looks like Mariah. But, of course, she can't be. Mariah was born March 27, 1970, a good 43 years after London After Midnight was filmed. Throughout the film, director Todd Browning shot numerous close-ups of Lon Chaney's eyes when "Inspector Burke" was doing his hypnosis thing. For years, there have been rumors that those aren't Chaney's eyes. Who is Chaney's "eye double?" Theories include everybody from Count Saint-Germain to Dracula. (Editor's Comment: One article I read speculated that those disconcerting "eye shots" prompted MGM honcho Louis B. Mayer to withdraw the film from circulation permanently sometime between 1930 and 1932.) Look closely at the scene in the manor's Great Hall in which actress Edna Tichenor, who plays "Lunette, the female vampire" puts the bite on the movie's female lead, actress Marceline Day. The caretaker is holding a Coleman battery-powered lantern. The kind that Coleman put on the market in 1985. A digital alarm clock, a 1974 model, appears in the background of Conrad Nagel's bedroom at the manor. Nagel played "Arthur Hibbs," one of the suspects in Sir Roger's death. The filming of London After Midnight was almost a family affair. "Sir James Hamlin," another suspect, was played by actor Henry B. Walthall, who was Chaney's co- star in The Road to Mandalay. Like his friend Chaney, Walthall did many macabre roles such as Stark Mad, The Whispering Shadow and Voice from the Grave. The female lead, Marceline Day, has an intriguing background. She was born in Colorado Springs, Colorado on April 24, 1907. She was the younger sister of Alice Day, one of Mack Sennett's "bathing beauties." Marceline made her first movie, The Taming of the West, in 1925 at the age of 18. She was a leading lady in several MGM films, gave up acting in 1933, married a lawyer and, in 1976, was reportedly still living in southern California. Strangely enough, Lon Chaney himself came from Colorado Springs. He was born there on April 1, 1883, the son of deaf-mute parents. He left town in 1900 to join a traveling theatrical troupe, cut his acting teeth on musical comedy, and arrived penniless in Los Angeles in 1912. He began his film career as an extra at Universal Studios and later moved over to the MGM lot. Did Chaney know the Day family in Colorado Springs around the time of the Spanish-American War in 1898? The strangest rumor, though, about London After Midnight is that it was "the vampire movie with real vampires." According to this legend, Chaney undertook the challenge of making a vampire appear on film. As everyone knows, a vampire casts no reflection in a mirror. Nor can it appear in a photograph, film clip or videotape. The task seemed impossible, but allegedly Chaney was willing to give it a try. If anyone could do it, Lon Chaney could. He wrote the section on "Theatrical Makeup" for the Encyclopedia Brittanica. All he had to do was spray the vampires' faces with a fine latex solution. After this dried, he could have peeled off the "mask" of the vampire's face, color it with the right dyes to evoke silent-movie makeup, and then have the vampires slip on their "faces" before the film shooting began. All of which has paranormal enthusiasts wondering about the mysterious Edna Tichenor, who played "Lunette." She has only two other film credits listed, both of them horror films. The first was The Show, in which she played "Koko, the Human Spider." The second was 1934's The Black Moon, after which she sort of dropped out of sight. Even more puzzling is actor Andy McLellan. London After Midnight is his one and only film credit. What happened to Andy after 1927, no one knows. Oh, and one other thing--there is an oddball connection between Lon Chaney Sr. and Mariah Carey. It's one of those "Six Steps to Kevin Bacon" type links. In 1923, Chaney made his first big "monster movie," The Hunchback of Notre Dame. A year or so later, silent- movie comedian Buster Keaton did a parody called The Halfback of Notre Dame and followed it up with Brideless Groom in 1925, which could also be called A Jogger's Guide to Southern California. Buster spends the last twenty minutes running across hundreds of miles of the USA's desert Southwest. Brideless Groom has been remade twice, once in 1947 with the Three Stooges, and again in 1999 as The Bachelor...with Mariah Carey. (See Science Fiction, Horror and Fantasy Film and Television Credits by Harris M. Lentz, McFarland & Co., Jefferson, N.C., 1983; The American Film Institute Catlogue: Feature Films 1921 to 1930, edited by Kenneth W, Munden, R.R. Bowker Co., New York, N.Y. 1971 and Who's Who in Hollywood 1900- 1976 by David Ragan, Arlington House, New Rochelle, N.Y., 1976.) That's it for this week. We'll be back in seven days with more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. And don't forget to mark your calendar. London After Midnight will air on Turner Classic Movies on October 31, 2002-- Halloween Night! Keep your garlic handy. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2002 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com Official Archives of UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine, plus archives of Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK and UFO Sightings Italia. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Filer's Files #35 - 2002 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:34:50 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:33:53 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #35 - 2002 FILER'S FILES #35 - 2002, MUFON Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern August 28, 2002, Majorstar@aol.com. Webmaster: Chuck Warren - My new website is at http//:www.filersfiles-ufo.com. UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE HIGH AROUND THE WORLD: The purpose of these files is to report some of the video and eye witness evidence that occurs on a daily basis of UFOs. These include landings, crop circles, mutilations, near misses and encounters. Ancient asteroid smashed into Earth, Roswell UFO wreckage photo interpretation, New Jersey daylight disk, Pennsylvania abduction, Georgia flashing flying lights, Michigan hovering disk, Illinois fast flying balloon, Mississippi UFO changes shapes, Texas pulsing lights, Colorado cylinder, New Mexico flying diamond triangle, California flying triangle, Washington fabulous lights photos, Canadian UFOs and crop circles, Mexico UFO returns to volcano, Argentina mutilations, English and Scotland UFOs, Angola UFO crashes, Ukrainian flying triangle, India space creature kills seven, China has 12 sightings in July, and UFO over ancient Japanese tomb. Star Wars anti ballistic missile system under construction upsets Russia. Cyber attacks. MUFON UNDER CYBER ATTACK -- Director John Schuessler writes: I think it is important for MUFON members to know that for the last couple months the MUFON email site and webmaster have received an inordinate number of virus-laden messages. The has been a directed attack on MUFON by as of yet unknown criminals. Following the virus attacks, several MUFON addresses have been used via spoofing techniques by these criminals to send messages carrying perverted attachments. You may be assured that if you receive one of these messages that it was not actually sent by MUFON, and we would like to hear about it. Whatever you do, do not forward any such messages to anyone. Instead, notify your email service provider's security representative and request assistance. Filers Files, Majorstar, MUFON East and similar addresses will not send out attachments. Do not open any attachments, they may contain viruses. Thanks to John Schuessler. ANCIENT ASTEROID SMASHED EARTH Steve Wilson says a huge asteroid struck Earth about 3.5 billion years ago, when the planet was just a billion years old, causing giant waves that spread around the world a mile high. South Africa and Australia deposits show evidence that an asteroid twelve miles wide crashed into the Earth's crust killing all life except microbes. The Science magazine article states, Primitive Earth was heavily bombarded earlier in its history but this asteroid was twice the size of the 6-mile-wide space rock that struck 65 million years ago and killed off the dinosaurs. Thanks to Science magazine: www.sciencemag.org PHOTOS OF ROSWELL CRASH DEBRIS FORT WORTH -- It now has been more than four years since the Roswell Photo Interpretation Team (RPIT) began its systematic study of the photos of the Roswell "UFO" wreckage debris photographed 55 years ago in General Ramey's Office. As each leaf has been unfolded these discoveries have been posted on the web independently by RPIT researchers so the whole world can study them and respond. If there EVER has been a "Sunshine" research project RPIT has led the way! The first posting was one by Ron Regehr. Others by Neil and Ben and Marilyn and Andrew followed. Each researched a different slant on the photos. But all findings were promptly posted. No one has been paid for their many hours of expert labor and all were entirely unfettered to post their findings. No one has charged that anyone connected with RPIT is anything other than serious. A major reason for our willingness to post the RPIT findings online is to invite rebuttal and suggested explanations. None of us on the RPIT wants to be Roswell dupes or accused of being blind. We have simply asked others to take a look and then opine some idea of what we are seeing. Do these symbols make ANY sense? Surely they were not a part of any planned US project to dupe the world. Not bearing those strange symbols and the strange material to be seen. And nothing seen in the Ramey office photos can be matched up precisely with anything to be found in a Rawin/Mogul train -- the most recent of the Air Force's several explanations as to the Roswell event. But there MUST be a final, rational answer! NOT ONE CRITIC has suggested seriously that there are any flaws in the RPIT findings or has any thing been overlooked. Even Number One Roswell debunker Phil Klass quickly relies on humor when pushed for a reasonable explanation as to what is to be seen in the photos. And early on RPIT critics have been strangely silent in recent years. Have they all become converts to the RPIT conclusions? Hopefully during our 5th year there will begin to be unfolded some plausible explanations. We surely have thoroughly debunked the theories of some Roswell writers that the debris seen in the photos was quickly substituted by General Ramey to fool a single press photographer while the genuine stuff was being winged to Wright Field for further study. Surely there must be an explanation for the message held in General Ramey's hand that UFOlogists all agree mentions something about "victims of the wreck being taken to Fort Worth, Texas" as well as reference to "weather balloons" -- which some have concluded was giving General Ramey his "marching orders" by higher headquarters to issue his extraordinary hurried live personal radio broadcast that same night giving the "weather balloon" explanation. Surely we have clearly established that this was an extraordinary day in the life of the US Air Corps -- a month later to become the USAF. And that there was indeed some extraordinary event that led GEN Ramey to willingly pose with the just unpacked debris spread out on the carpet in his plush office while wearing his class A complete military uniform withjacket and frame hat on a blazing un-airconditioned afternoon in Texas July heat. What is GEN Ramey seeing as his picture is being snapped? Why was it there at all? What happened to this debris shortly after the Star-Telegram reporter- photographer hurried away to process his pictures and send them to the world to witness this extraordinary event? Why has the Roswell debris been concealed from the world now for more than 55 years? There must be reasonable answers. Hopefully someone out there will be able to provide more clues. You are urged to come forward. And to spread this request across the Internet. Thanks to Col. James Bond Johnson, The Photographer NEW JERSEY DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTED MANALAPAN -- "On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at approximately 6 PM, my daughter and I went out in the backyard to go on the swing set," witness Dawn G. reported, "The sky was clear, and it was sunny and hot. I was looking up in the sky, and I saw above the highest airplane, a shiny spot. It looked silver or white. It wasn't moving, so I kept watching it." "It still didn't move. Then, all of a sudden, more appeared in a formation, almost as if I was looking at the Big Dipper in broad daylight. I watched for a few minutes to see if there was any movement. There was none." "Then I ran in the house to get my video camera and binoculars real quick, and, when I came out, it was gone. I brought the camera and binoculars down to the swing set and kept my eyes on the sky. I saw another one (UFO) just above my head. I quickly grabbed the binoculars and tried to focus them. But all I could see was a silver- ish or whitish spot with a sort of halo (aura) around it. It sort of looked like a little cloud. Then I grabbed my video camera and, when I looked up, it was gone. I told my husband about what I saw. We both couldn't explain it." "Crop circles were found in a farm field in Coltsneck which is only a few miles west of where I live. It really gave me the creeps." Manalapan is on Route 33 about 20 miles east of Trenton. Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 7, # 34 8/23/02, Editor: Joseph Trainor http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/ PENNSYLVANIA TWO HOUR ABDUCTION SHARON -- The witness a medical professional was leaving his office in the Medical Center on August 13, 2002, when he saw a strange craft at 9:06 PM. The witness said, "I went blank and two hours later I awakened and was still standing and there were two incisions in my abdomen." Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC GEORGIA FLASHING MOVING LIGHTS JACKSON -- The husband is an emergency response officer with a state law enforcement agency and his wife is a law student. They had gone out at 11 PM on August 12, 2002, to watch the Perseid meteor shower and noticed a flickering light moving at amazing speed. There was no burn out like a normal meteor, this light stopped moving and hovered for about 30 seconds. It then began moving to the south, and she pointed it out to her husband. The light then made several starts and stops in different directions. He got his binoculars from the house and they could see a glowing silvery cylindrical object, about the size of an aspirin at arm's length. This object was pulsating/flickering different colors; yellow tinged with light green, dark lavender, then reddish-pink, then repeated again. The wife reports watching for 35-40 minutes as the object continued it's erratic stops and starts. The witness called her mother who lives ten miles to the north and she also saw moving light. They both then watched together while on the phone, both seeing the same movements. Shortly thereafter, they experienced static on the phone and rung off. This witness returned outside for progress checks until long after midnight, easily relocating the object, which had moved to the south. All law enforcement 911 centers in this three county area were contacted by this writer, with negative results. Former Chief of police Sheets contacted the witnesses and at 10:45 PM, the next night the witnesses phoned to report seeing glowing chasing lights in brilliant colors moving at incredible speeds, with flashes of the above described colors. Thanks to MUFONGA Tom Sheets MICHIGAN HOVERING DISK BELLEVILLE -- The witnesses went outside to watch a meteor shower on August 11, 2002, at 5:00 AM. The witness reports, "I was watching the meteors when I noticed a strange object in the sky off to my right that was just hovering there and was dark in color." After sitting outside for a while, I noticed it was still hovering unlike the meteors and stars that were moving. I got up from my seat and started staring at it and I realized it was metallic in color. It was kind of low to the ground and just hovering with a dome on top of it. Then I decided to walk closer to get a better look and when I got closer, it just took off and disappeared into the night sky. This kind of gave me the chills and scared me so I went in the house. This object made a humming noise of some sort. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC ILLINOIS FAST FLYING BALLOON ARLINGTON HEIGHTS -- On August 23, 2002, the witness was smoking outside the front of his office at 12:30 PM, and he looked up and to see a beige balloon flying very fast about 2500 feet in the air. A plane was passing by and this "thing" went around the plane and took off south west at a very high speed. I watched for about 20 seconds and it was gone. I'm a little amazed because I'm the type of person that has to see something to believe it and I'm kind of freaked out on what I think I saw. Thanks to Chad C. MISSISSIPPI UFO CHANGES SHAPES JACKSON -- On August 12, 2002, the witness reports seeing a fast moving UFO, zigzagging with bright colors and a small glow tint around it. It moved fast and made different movements and made shapes like triangles dipping up and down. It had different colors flashing red green blue and yellow at 10:46 PM. It also looked like a kind of shield was covering it with a small glow. Then two appeared moving with distinctive movements. It showed up twice in two days for two hours and was very fast. Thanks to Peter Davenport.NUFORC TEXAS LIGHTS PULSE AUSTIN -- The witness was at a friend's backyard on August 4, 2002, when he noticed a light that seemed to be moving farther away at 10:30 PM. It then moved closer and started getting brighter, and seemed to be pulsing. As it got closer, the object seemed to be hovering, as it was moving from side to side, in circles, etc. The witness states, "There was no noise, so I am sure that it was not a plane or helicopter." A friend spotted this as well, and we alerted the whole group. We were all shocked and stared in amazement until the object suddenly shot away. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC COLORADO CYLINDER RIFLE -- The night was clear on August 12, 2002, close to midnight while laying out on our deck watching for meteors the witness reports, "I saw high, high up a very bright white-light cylinder like shape traveling from north to south." When I first spotted it I thought it was probably a satellite or the space station?" I watched it for about a minute or so (it wasn't moving very fast) then it slowly changed into a fairly nice dot of light, then the dot started getting smaller and smaller and smaller till it finally vanished. I don't think that was a satellite or aircraft, nor even a meteor. It made me think as it vanished though, that it was flying away from earth. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC NEW MEXICO ABLE TO MAKE OUT SHAPE AND COLORS. ALBUQUERQUE -- "My boyfriend and I where on the way to my house on August 13, 2002, and saw a giant object which at first seemed to be a plane the witness reported. As it got closer around 8:00 PM, we realized it was too big to be a plane. "It was metallic silver and sort of a triangular shape mixed with the shape of a diamond. At the point of the diamond were two giant red lights, a white one on top, and on the back were two giant white lights. It had three windows which would take turns flashing in a sequence. It flew around at about 100 feet high for about five minutes and disappeared into thin air. Later, it would reappear in the same spot. Then it seemed to follow us and just disappeared. With our windows rolled down not a single sound was heard. Thanks to Peter Davenport. NUFORC CALIFORNIA V SHAPED FORMATION CHULA VISTA -- The witness observed a V shaped formation of cross shaped objects in the sky at 1:05 PM, on August 3, 2002. The formation was flying at about 1500 to 2000 feet accompanied at a slightly lower altitude by a flying triangle. The objects were not birds or an ultra-lite. The formation remained visible for about five minutes. Then a group of low level clouds hid the objects. When I reached my house (within 2 minutes) I ran inside and grabbed a camera and binoculars and went back outside. The clouds had by now, moved off to the east. I scanned the sky, and observed a single white cross in the west. It looked like a large white airliner making a turn. I started to observe the object through the binoculars, when it instantaneously shot over head in less than two seconds. WELDON -- A couple were watching the sky at 10:44 PM, for falling stars on August 11, 2002, when they both observed an object coming from the north on a straight trajectory. It was a soft green glowing object with a wingspan similar to a stealth almost like a triangle. The object was flying 40 miles west of Edwards Air Force Base and was moving slower than a falling star, but much faster than any plane crossing the sky in three seconds. Right after the object passed we saw three falling stars. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WASHINGTON UFO PHOTOS CONTINUE SPOKANE -- For almost half a year an important judge who lives high on a mountain overlooking the city reports seeing and photographing strange lights. Jeff Sainio, photo analyst for MUFON reports, preliminary analysis of these photos show flight patterns and lighting changes not usually present with traditional or known aircraft. The judge states, "I can tell you that in forty some years of watching the night skies, I have never before seen what I have been observing since February. I do not presume to know what these lights and craft are and they may very well be of terrestrial origin, but then again, they may not. There are a number of very talented and helpful individuals who have offered me assistance, but we don't know what it is but I can tell you it appears our Government is aware of the phenomena. I observed several dramatic interactions between what appeared to be military aircraft, and the lighted objects. The aircraft would fly toward the lights, and the lights would move away in response. I didn't get the sense that the aircraft were attempting to engage the lights in a military action, as much as attempting to 'harass' the lights into leaving. Much as you would try to 'shoo' a dog off your property. Photos were taken using a small telescope and a 35 mm camera. The photos generally show a radio tower on nearby Tower Mountain. The lights/craft almost always come in from the West or the South, and then disappear on or at the base of Tower Mountain. I am getting the distinct impression that these craft are using Tower Mountain as a landing zone, and perhaps even as an underground parking garage. On rare occasion, I also see lights rise up from the Tower Mountain area and fly away to the South. Recent photos show an interesting triangle shape created during the 1/2 to 1/4 second exposure, and a lighted disc flying out over the valley. See Photo Center CANADA RED OBJECT FLYING LOW OVER TORONTO TORONTO -- A 50 year old journalist, photographer, private pilot, radio control airplane builder and flyer, and amateur astronomer was sitting outside preparing for an evening of star gazing with his 10 inch telescope on August 5, 2002. The witness states, "I first observed the object directly overhead at 10:29 PM, shaped like the sole of a shoe that was illuminated in red from below." There were no blinking lights as it crossed the clear night sky streaking east without a trail. The object flew rapidly, no more than 2 or 3 seconds and disappeared in the bright haze of the ESE horizon. The trajectory seemed mostly straight although halfway through, the object seemed to adjust its course slightly. This object was much lower and made no noise which I could hear. As an astronomer I have observed many objects and this was like nothing I have ever seen. ATWATER, SASKATCHEWAN -- A farmer found a five circle quintuplet crop circle formation in wheat on August 20, 2002. The center was a large circle 15 meters (50 feet) diameter surrounded by four smaller eight foot circles. The center circle was burned by a ring inside it. This is the eighth crop circle report for 2002. Thanks to Crop Watch 2002 and Daniel Clairmont http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/circlescanada02.html VANCOUVER, B.C.-- Jaime Maussan has received a videotape from a Mexican Surgeon who was on holiday in Canada last December. The surgeon was traveling across a major bridge and a companion was video taping the mountains in early morning when a rotating round object was taped shinning in the sun. The object completely vanishes, then reappears several times while it flies along. The object was large and traveled at a good clip. Thanks to Brian Vike HBCC UFO Research MEXICO UFOs OVER POPOCATP=C9TL VOLCANO The Volcano web camera is again picking up UFOs flying around the area. One UFO can be seen in the video off the left shoulder of the peak--and two higher and to the right of the volcano. http://www.messenia.com/links/webcam/asp/popocatepetl.asp ya ARGENTINA FIREMAN AND POLICE BESIEGED BY BEAMS OF LIGHT RIO CUARTO -- Researchers have discovered that the eyewitness account of Sergeant Guillermo Arias, involving his strange encounter with a 200-meter long triangular device before midnight on July 21, 2002, has gained additional witnesses. A policeman and a fireman were also besieged by a luminous, unidentified flying object with a powerful violet beam a short time before the Guillermo event in a straight line north-south direction. BUENOS AIRES -- Despite the fact that the news media's silence could be interpreted as the mutilations has ceased, ranchers are still reporting new cases. The police no longer appear interested in accepting new reports, and animal owners have therefore stopped informing the authorities. A Magazine TV show on hunting called "El Escape del Cabur=E9," roamed through a hunting preserve in the province of La Pampa, and found a mutilated wild boar with its brain extracted. BERROTARAN -- Knowledgeable sources claim despite the best efforts made in the School of Agronomy and Veterinary Medicine of the National University of Rio Cuarto, they have been unable to solve the case of a mutilated bull. The animal had subcutaneous lesions and its internal organs were absorbed through the rectum and cut, apparently in a single motion using the same tool. There was no blood in the heart. The animal did not die from a heart attack or from electric shock. The fact that the situation has not been resolved should not be construed as impugning the capabilities of local scientists. They simply found themselves in an apparent dead end--a similar experience to that of hundreds of their colleagues affected by these manifestations. Thanks to Scott Corrales, IHU. Translation (C) 2002 and Christian Quintero. ENGLAND TWO SPHERE SHAPED OBJECTS NOTTINGHAM -- A business owner 52, a female university graduate, and 14 year old boy were watching the meteor storm on August 12, 2002. About 11:30 PM, they saw two sphere shaped objects appear and dart across the sky as if they were chasing each other. The spheres seemed to wave up and down and cross over each other as if dancing and disappeared behind the trees after twenty seconds. They were yellow-orange in color. SCOTLAND BLUE LIGHT SPLITS IN TWO LOCH NESS -- It was about 2 AM and the witness couldn't sleep, so he went outside on the clear August 19, 2002, night to lie down and watch for shooting stars from a small village called Foyers which is beside Loch Ness. He reports, "As I was looking up I noticed a moving blue light, that split into two blue lights which I thought was strange; they started to get bigger and they weren't going in a straight line they were moving from side to side like a zigzag. I watched them for ten minutes and then they headed south towards England at quite a speed!" Thanks to Rory S. rory@mars.aliens.com and Stojanovic Vladan Serbia TRIANGLE UFO OVER UKRAINIAN OBSERVATORY CRIMEA -- Anton A.Anfalov reports a triangle-shaped UFO was sighted above the Crimean mountains on August 12, 2002, in Nauchnyi near the Crimean Astro - Physical Observatory. I was told by Aleksandr Szelko, a TV-reporter from Kiev, who witnessed it together TV operator and driver at 21:50 PM, as well as with one scientist from local observatory who was accompanying them, also saw this. (Mr.Szelko and his colleagues have visited Crimea to make special programme on Ukrainian television dedicated to observations of meteors and UFOs, I gave numerous interviews and presented some photos, witnesses and links they were shooting and using for this programme). Guys told me they distinctly saw three green - colored lights, positioned in the form of triangle. Aleksandr added that there also were little lights between the main ones, so that total number of lights were 8 or 9. They thought it was some kind of terrestrial probe, but such explanation, is certainly, nonsense. The object was flying too fast to activate their heavy professional video camera to shoot it. Thanks to Anton A.Anfalov Ukrainian UFO Association (UKUFAS) an@crimea.com ANGOLA SPHERE CRASHES LUANDA -- An unidentified spherical object has fallen from the sky and landed near the Angolan village of Manzawu, in northern Uije province, Roman Catholic Radio Ecclesia reported on August 22, 2002. Villagers told Ecclesia the object had crashed to the ground near Manzawu following a loud explosion. "We heard noise like thunder in the sky, and then a ball landed on the earth," one of the witnesses to the object's sudden appearance said. "Now, we are afraid it could explode," said another villager. Many of Manzawu's inhabitants have fled their homes, after hearing the explosion. According to Ecclesia, the object weighs around 10 kg and measures about 50 cm in diameter. Experts from the Angolan Armed Forces have traveled to the object's landing site to examine it, the radio said. Thanks to Sapa-AFP INDIA SPACE CREATURE CAUSING DEATHS AND RIOTS LUCKNOW -- An alleged flashing space creature has created panic triggering riots and lynchings that have killed more than a dozen people in India. A flying sphere emitting red and blue lights comes in the night and attacks villages and leaves its victims with extensive burns or even dead. Victims report being scratched on the face by something flashing blue, red or green. The creature has been dubbed Muhnochwa, or "face-clawing monster." Some police in Uttar Pradesh State have declared that Muhnochwa is an extraterrestrial being, but the Indian Institute of Technology claims the most likely cause is lightning balls. A mysterious flying object attacked him in the night," said Raghuraj Pal. And his neighbor Ramji Pal died recently in Shanwa. "His stomach was ripped open and died two days later." Seven people have died of unexplained injuries. Doctors say such stories are nothing but mass hysteria. Thanks to Sapa CHINA HAS TWELVE UFO SIGHTINGS IN JULY PUSALU VILLAGE -- Poor farmers in Beijing's barren hills saw it: an object swathed in colored light that some say must have been a UFO. They're not alone. People in 12 other Chinese cities reported UFO sightings last month. UFO researchers, meanwhile, were busy looking into claims of an alien abduction in Beijing. China is astir with sightings of otherworldly visitors. And for a country usually straight jacketed by its communist rulers, alien sightings are getting serious treatment. China has a bimonthly UFO magazine with a circulation of 400,000. The conservative state-run media reports UFO sightings while UFO buffs claim support from eminent scientists and with the military. Shen Shituan, a rocket scientist, is president of Beijing Aerospace University and honorary director of the China UFO Research Association says, "All these phenomena are worth researching." For thousands of years, Chinese have looked to the skies for signs and this is the Year of the Dragon, regarded as time of tumultuous change. Thanks to Sapa-AP UFOs OVER THE ANCIENT TOMB MOUNDS IN JAPAN OSAKA -- On July 20, a director of OUR-J (Organization of UFO Research Japan), Junichi Kato and several members saw spherical objects over Daisen Park. The objects appeared separately at 12:45, 15:04 and 15:06. Using binoculars the first UFO was a silver-white ball that was seen for thirty seconds. The second was a low altitude black oval shaped object, that flew southeast then suddenly turned southwest. The third one was a white illuminated round object at very high altitude for twenty minutes! Kato and other members took photos. Daisen Park has two big ancient Japanese mounded tombs. One is the Emperor Nintoku Tomb Mound the largest keyhole-shaped tomb mound in Japan, 486m (1595 ft.) in the length. Thanks to Toshie Nakagawa (OUR-J) http://www.our-j.com. RUSSIA PENALIZES US WITHDRAWAL FROM ABM TREATY US Anti Ballistic Missile facilities are now under construction in Alaska and in response the Russian military announced that it will not eliminate its rail-based SS-24 nuclear missiles. The Strategic Rocket Forces commander, Gen. Nikolai Solovtsov said the decision not to remove the 6,820 miles range missiles from service was the result of the US's withdrawal from the Antiballistic Missile Treaty. They are extremely survivable because of their mobility aboard trains. The Russians have also made new military agreements with Iraq that may create a new confrontation if the US decides to attack Iraq. UFO DEFENSE TACTICS - WEATHER SHIELD TO CHEMTRAILS A. K. Johnstone, Ph.D., explores with evidence, the creation of a weather shield to deter UFOs from entering earth's atmosphere, as well as the erratic weather changes in recent years. Numerous UFO sightings are examined from a scientific viewpoint, including plasma sheaths and fireballs. Order illustrated book, $14.95 from Hancock House 1-800-938-1114. WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN HIRING A REAL ESTATE AGENT! Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2002 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the complete files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue that the item appeared. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Filer's Files web Regards, George Filer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 'Signs' Inspired By 1687 Crop Circle From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 03:13:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:36:14 -0400 Subject: 'Signs' Inspired By 1687 Crop Circle Source: Stirling Observer - Scotland http://www.inside-scotland.co.uk/stirling/observer/FEATURES/cropz.html.html Stig *** Wednesday, 28 August 2002 Mel's crop circle thriller inspired by Stirling ** HOLLYWOOD heart-throb Mel Gibson's latest sci-fi blockbuster was inspired by his research into strange happenings in fields around Stirlingshire. 'Signs' is a tense thriller about a clergyman whose family are plagued by tragedy, aliens, and the appearance of mysterious crop circles around their house. The latest film from 'The Sixth Sense' director M Night Shyamalan has shot to the top of the North American box office chart, taking =A338.4 million in its opening weekend. Mel, who will forever be linked with the Stirling area after the success of 'Braveheart', researched crop circles for the new movie and became fascinated with bizarre formations that appeared in Stirlingshire in 1687. Mystery He studied the mystery from Scotland's first recorded case to the present day circles spotted in rural China. The 17th century phenomenon in Stirlingshire became known by locals as the Devil's Circle and is believed to be the oldest recorded crop circle. Local paranormal expert Ron Halliday has written scores of books on UFOs, crop circles and the unexplained. He said: "We have had a number of crop circles in Scotland over the years but this is definitely the earliest I have heard of. "There have been a number noted down south in the 17th century but to get one so early in Scotland was a bit of a revelation. Overnight "Similar things happened in England where locals couldn't understand the phenomenon and how they appeared overnight. "They called them the Devil's Circle and believed that the Devil and his followers caused them." During his years of detailed research, Ron has spotted crop circles all over the local area. "I saw one out towards Doune. It was a circle in a field of standing crops. "When I came back with some equipment to check it out, the farmer had ploughed the field," he said. Dismissed "A lot of farmers just dismiss the circles. Understandably, they don't want loads of people arriving and trampling over their fields. "There are a variety of explanations for crop circles but I think it is probably some kind of unexplained natural phenomenon. "One farmer even said to me that he thought they were caused by ducks. "Whatever causes them, it is still a fascinating phenomenon." Some experts have suggested links to places such as Stonehenge and others have noted that circles often appear close to the sacred sites of the ancient Celts. **
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Not A UFO An 'Anti-Matter' Balloon From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 03:24:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:38:58 -0400 Subject: Not A UFO An 'Anti-Matter' Balloon Source: Fort McMurray Today - Alberta, Canada http://www.bowesnet.com/today/daily/pages/news3.html Stig *** Updated: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 Posted Monday through Saturday 4 p.m. MT It's not a UFO, it's a balloon By SONAMARA MATHESON Today staff ** While overzealous skygazers might mistake it for a UFO, weird sights in the summer sky lately can be easily explained. For the past 12 years, NASA contractors have been parking their transportable laboratory outside Fort McMurray's airport and tracking large balloons during July and August. The National Scientific Balloon Facility staff gather information on the amount of anti-matter in the universe by sending large helium- filled balloons, which carry astronomical and particle analyzing instruments known as the payload, up into the sky. "Cosmic ray astronomy, high energy astrophysics, infrared astronomy, solar physics and atmospheric chemistry ... we are involved in the fundamental research in a number of different disciplines," said Danny R.J. Ball, site manager for the National Scientific Balloon Facility, located in Palestine Tex. The contractors gather information about the universe by flying heavy balloons in places such as Australia, Antarctica, Alaska, South America, Sweden and Canada. The balloons travelling over Fort McMurray were released from Lynn Lake, Man. and are bound for the Peace River area. "It turns out that Lynn Lake is favourable for cosmic ray astronomy so that's why we go up there and we have been going there for the past 12 years," said Ball. The balloon has a cruising altitude of around 135,000 feet is 600 ft. high and 900 ft. in diameter. Once the balloon nears Peace River the payload is dropped and then recovered by crew for analysis. Balloon progress can be tracked online http://192.149.107.13/lynn/ lynnlake.htm ** =A9 Copyright 2002 Fort McMurray Today
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 UFO Crashes In Angola From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 04:25:37 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:40:31 -0400 Subject: UFO Crashes In Angola Source: AFP via iafrica.com http://www.iafrica.com/pls/procs/iac.page?p_t1=3D2&p_t2=3D2&p_t3=3D0&p_t4=3D= 0&p_dynamic=3DYP&p_content_id=3D147085&p_site_id=3D2 Stig *** ANGOLA UFO crashes to the ground in Angola Posted Thu, 22 Aug 2002 ** An unidentified spherical object has fallen from the sky and landed near the Angolan village of Manzawu, in northern Uije province, Roman Catholic Radio Ecclesia reported on Thursday. Villagers told Ecclesia the object had crashed to the ground near Manzawu following a loud explosion, similar to a clap of thunder. "We heard noise like thunder in the sky, and then a ball landed on the earth," one of the witnesses to the object's sudden appearance said. "Now, we are afraid it could explode," said another villager. Many of Manzawu's inhabitants had fled their homes, after hearing the explosion. According to Ecclesia, the object weighs around 10kg and measures some 50 centimetres in diameter. Experts from the Angolan Armed Forces have travelled to the object's landing site to examine it, the radio said. AFP ** This article is a printout from iafrica.com Copyright =A9 2000 iafrica.com*, a division of Metropolis*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Colorado MUFON Reports UFO Down In Alaska? From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:22:27 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:44:02 -0400 Subject: Colorado MUFON Reports UFO Down In Alaska? This is a series of posts on 'alt.paranet.ufo'. The interlocutor is James Oberg, but to avoid confusion I have only brought his contributions in so far as they relate to the case. Nothing is said on Art Bell's site. Stig *** From: John Cauthen <johnrc@comporium.net> Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Breaking News: Colorado MUFON reports UFO down in Alaska! Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 09:31:48 -0400 George Noory just received a report from Colorado MUFON's assistant state director that they have confirmation of a UFO down in Alaska. NORAD is reportedly confirming the object's locale, as are Canadian officials. The first six witnesses on the scene saw it hovering 50 feet above the ice amid an cascade of "laser lights". It apparently carved a face and a wheel in the ice about 200 feet in diameter. The report George read during the opening of Coast to Coast AM, went on to say that the area is being cordoned off and a lid is being put on it. This is all early, and unconfirmed information. George trusts this source and gave his full name on the air. This might be something to watch - hope it doesn't turn out to be a hoax. This is a developing story... tune into Coast to Coast AM. George hinted that there might be more to come! ** From: John Cauthen <johnrc@comporium.net> Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Re: Breaking News: Colorado MUFON reports UFO down in Alaska! Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:06:16 -0400 Here's an update with a more accurate quote now that I've had time to go back and listen to my tape recording of Coast to Coast AM last night. The Colorado MUFON's Assistant State Director's name reporting this to George is Ed Burke. The report says quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------- "an American touchdown team raced to a site that was either a touchdown or a crash by something, maybe a UFO. It took the group of 6 almost 45 minutes to reach the location that NORAD has called in and the Canadians confirmed equally as fast. When they reached the site, all 6 people witnessed a rather large UFO approximately 50 feet in the air, using a form of laser light to carve into the ice more than 20 cm deep, the face of them along with another wheel of information." From the description the face is over 200 feet in diameter and is well defined. And the wheel of information is double the size. The area has been apparently cordoned off as they think that if anything heavy goes, they do not want any media on this." John Cauthen ** From: John Cauthen <johnrc@comporium.net> Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Re: Oberg on Rense tonight Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:22:15 -0400 Great, I'll tune in and listen... maybe there will be enough substance to this report for you to comment on it by then. I've e- mailed Ed Burke at Colorado MUFON to see what he has to say on it. He's the source of the report. I'll let you know what if anything I find out from him. Thanks, John Cauthen "James Oberg" <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>wrote in message news:4EMa9.353086$q53.11756154@twister.austin.rr.com... >Thanks, I'm on again tonight... >"John Cauthen" <johnrc@comporium.net>wrote in message >news:akg0pb$6qte$1@news3.infoave.net... >>BTW James, I catch you every now and then on Jeff Rense's program. I >>appreciate the balance you bring to the UFO equation. >>John Cauthen ** From: "John Cauthen" <johnrc@comporium.net> Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Re: Breaking News: Colorado MUFON reports UFO down in Alaska! Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:51:43 -0400 Thanks, I was just getting ready to comment on the theory. It was the most plausible, but you've at least saved me the leg work. I still haven't heard back from Ed Burke, so I've CC'd Lin Simpson, the acting state director to see if I can get a response there. On another note, a fellow Enterprise Mission Conferee of mine contacted a Colorado MUFON Staff member. They claim to have never heard of Ed Burke. Yet if you go to their contact link shown on the homepage, Edward Burke III is listed as "Assistant State Director"!? This is getting to be an interesting story, bonafied UFO or not! :-) John Cauthen "James Oberg" <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>wrote in message news:W0Pa9.353335$q53.11787060@twister.austin.rr.com... >"James Oberg" <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>wrote in message >news:k8Oa9.123030$eK6.3764692@twister.austin.rr.com... >>Any connection? Depends on the wind direction, maybe.. >Nope, it landed near Fort McMurray on the Canadian side of the >border. Not any connection.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 New Estimate From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:40:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:48:22 -0400 Subject: New Estimate A New Estimate of the Situation (Aug, 2002) We have had about 50 years of UFO sightings, landing traces, radar, photo and maybe crash We have had about 40 years of UFO abductions We have had about 30 years of animal mutilations (and black helicopters) We have had about 20 years of Agriglyphs (a.k.a. Crop Circles in 'common' terminology) We have had about 10 years of Chupacabras We have had a recent upsurge of Mutilations and Chupas (and strange creatures) in South America And now a few weeks of ETB (Extra-Terrestrial Body - a new term in the literature) in India. The ETB causes injury in India. UFOs/Chupas appear to have caused injury (and death) in Brazil and perhaps other places in South America UFO sightings are often associated with the strange animal mutilations. These may not be all related... but what it they are! Is 'someone else' trying hard to get our attention without overt contact? NEW ESTIMATE: someone from out there is slowly encroaching on 'our' (is it really... our?) planet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Secrecy News -- 08/29/02 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:07:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:51:10 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/29/02 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2002, Issue No. 84 August 29, 2002 ** COMMERCIAL SATELLITE IMAGERY COMPLICATES WAR PLANS ** US MARINE CORPS WARNS AGAINST LEAKS ** CHINA ISSUES MISSILE EXPORT CONTROL REGULATIONS COMMERCIAL SATELLITE IMAGERY COMPLICATES WAR PLANS The increasing availability of commercial high-resolution satellite imagery opens up vast horizons of remarkable and previously inaccessible data to the general public. But it can also provide detailed target information to opposing forces and erode the element of surprise. As such, it represents a qualitatively new challenge to war planners. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld this week lamented the exposure of U.S. forces due to satellite imagery. "I looked the other day at one of our airfields that we use in the Middle East, and there was a commercial satellite photograph on one of the television channels, showing exactly where our fighter aircraft and where our refueling aircraft were located on that airport -- this is on a television station -- from a commercial satellite, showing where our planes were and how they'd move, how one was there yesterday and was not there today, and noting that," Rumsfeld said on August 27. "Now, can we live with that?" he asked rhetorically about this and related operational security challenges. "You bet, we'll live with it." But he added, "I wish we didn't have to live with it." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/08/dod082702.html A sampling of the types of satellite images Rumsfeld was discussing (including perhaps the very one he was referring to) have been made available by the policy research organization GlobalSecurity.org. See "New imagery from Space Imaging's Ikonos and DigitalGlobe's Quick Bird reveal continued construction at Al Udeid Airbase (Qatar)" here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/al-udeid- imagery2.htm In a "Q&A on Satellite Imagery," GlobalSecurity.org presents its rationale for publishing the imagery, along with hostile comments the organization has received for doing so. See: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/al-udeid- imagery-a.htm An unofficial military assessment of the "commercial satellite imagery threat" notes that "even minor adversaries now have the capability to use militarily relevant satellite imagery against U.S. forces." The assessment, a paper submitted to the Naval War College by Maj. Robert A. Fabian, former chief of space control strategy, policy and doctrine for Air Force Space Command, concludes by proposing consideration of a "space blockade." "By combining diplomatic, economic, and military efforts..., the space blockade provides a joint force commander with a potentially effective means of denying adversary access to commercial satellite imagery," Maj. Fabian wrote. See "Force Protection in an Era of Commercially Available Satellite Imagery: Space Blockade as a Possible Solution," dated 4 February 2002 here (26 pages, 1.3 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/fabian.pdf US MARINE CORPS WARNS AGAINST LEAKS The Marine Corps leadership has added its voice to the chorus of military officials who are warning against "leaks" of classified information. "Classified information concerning operational planning for the global war on terrorism has recently been published by the national media," observed Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Jones in an August 28 message to Marine Corps personnel. "Some may characterize this as a quote leak end quote. In reality, intentionally passing classified material to unauthorized recipients is a crime, whether to the media or foreign intelligence organizations. Military members who violate this trust will be prosecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)," General Jones wrote. See the full text of his message, first reported by Thomas Duffy in InsideDefense.com, here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2002/08/usmc082802.html Earlier this month, following the lead of Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, Army and Air Force officials delivered similar warnings to their personnel. (SN 82, 8/22/02) CHINA ISSUES MISSILE EXPORT CONTROL REGULATIONS On August 25, the People's Republic of China issued its first formal export control regulations for missiles and related technology. The U.S. Government praised the move as a contribution towards limiting missile proliferation. "Without being licensed," the regulations state, "no unit or individual shall export missiles and missile-related items and technologies." See: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/export.html "We welcome the publication and promulgation by the Chinese on August 25th of controls on missile exports," said State Department spokesman Richard Boucher on August 26. "It may help advance China's efforts to prevent the proliferation of dangerous missile technologies." However, Mr. Boucher said, "the real measure of China's control over missile-related exports will be the effectiveness with which controls like these are enforced, and a real reduction in problematic exports by Chinese entities." _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:55:36 UT Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:53:19 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 18:27:06 +0000 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:39:25 UT >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>><snip> >>>Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >>>Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >>>simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >>>removed to date? >>I know Dr. Leir and have seen not only photos but videos of the >>implants and removals, but he has not presented substantial >>evidence from scientific analysis of these objects to show that >>they are both anamolous and non-terrestrial. >Well... do any of them look manufactured? I ask that because >the two NIDS implants appeared to be natural fragments which >could have been embedded in an accidental way. Just lumps of >iron or some such. I only saw one that I recall that looked like it might have been a manufactured artifact. I cannot comment on the others as the photos do not tell me one way or another. -Bill H
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:50:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:59:18 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien - Hall >From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:57:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:32:16 +0000 >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:15 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >>Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >>simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >>removed to date? >Again, let's not give Roger Leir more credit than he's due. The >"Dr." in front of his name has no significance whatsoever in >relation to the discussion of aliens, implants or UFOs. >The man is a podiatrist. Not a medical doctor. It is my >understanding that the majority of the removals had nothing to >do with feet. Allegedly medical doctor assisted with these >surgeries, but at one time (perhaps still) wanted to remain >anonymous. Some science. Hah! >Rebecca Exactly right, Rebecca! California has notoriously loose standards for accreditation of doctors and mental health professionals. I am speaking as the brother of an M.D. and a long-time employee of the American Psychological Association. What I found particularly telling (i.e., damning) was Leir's rather pitiful wannabee glorying in being appointed a MUFON consultant as if that were some pinnacle of achievement and something to brag about. Not! However 'nice' a person he may be, he clearly is not a highly- qualified doctor or professional when it comes to evaluating implants. Sad to say, most self-styled "ufologists" tend to interpret scientific validity or invalidity on the basis of what they would like to believe rather than on objective analysis. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:10:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:02:06 -0400 Subject: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:57:24 -0500 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >Again, let's not give Roger Leir more credit than he's due. The >"Dr." in front of his name has no significance whatsoever in >relation to the discussion of aliens, implants or UFOs. >The man is a podiatrist. Not a medical doctor. It is my >understanding that the majority of the removals had nothing to >do with feet. Allegedly medical doctor assisted with these >surgeries, but at one time (perhaps still) wanted to remain >anonymous. Some science. Hah! >Rebecca Hi Rebecca No argument regarding the validity of the science here, but technically a 'Podiatrist' is a medical doctor who diagnoses and treats disorders and diseases of the foot (otherwise known as a 'Specialist'). I would certainly agree that his specialty doesn't prepare him for the removal and analysis of alien implants (unless they are in the area of the foot). Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:25:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:05:41 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:57:24 -0500 >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net> >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:32:16 +0000 >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:15 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >><snip> >>Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >>Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >>simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >>removed to date? >Again, let's not give Roger Leir more credit than he's due. The >"Dr." in front of his name has no significance whatsoever in >relation to the discussion of aliens, implants or UFOs. >The man is a podiatrist. Not a medical doctor. It is my >understanding that the majority of the removals had nothing to >do with feet. Allegedly medical doctor assisted with these >surgeries, but at one time (perhaps still) wanted to remain >anonymous. Some science. Hah! I do know he's a podiatrist. Nevertheless, he's earned the title 'Dr.' and I'm happy to acknowledge that. I agree that his particular doctorate doesn't apply to UFO matters (unless alien feet are worthy of study), but he's apparently a podiatrist with _alien_implants_, and it's those implants I'm interested in, particularly the question as to whether they are manufactured or just lumps of stuff. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Houston, British Columbia, August 14th, 15th & From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:41:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:08:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Houston, British Columbia, August 14th, 15th & >From: Brian Vike <yogibear@bulkley.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:40:04 -0700 >Subject: Houston, British Columbia, August 14th, 15th & 16th >Houston, British Columbia >Date: August 14th, 15th & 16th, 2002 >Time: 4:10 - 4:30 a.m. >Location: Chisholm Road, 64 Kilometers out from Houston, B.C. >Bright Lights >The fellow pointed in the direction as to where he was seeing >the lights, and I watched. The time was 4:10 a.m. when I first >spotted a dim white light flying slowly across the sky just >above the horizon towards Morice Mountain, then a huge bright >white light caught my attention. It was if an aircraft was close >to us, and shone his spotlight (landing lights) in our direction >it was so bright. I watched the light for about 5 seconds before >it dropped below the mountain. The logger said this had been >going on for the last two days prior to me being out there. It >was not an aircraft, meteor, satellite, etc.. What it was is a >mystery to me. The logger also said, he and some of his co- >workers when working on this cut block had been watching normal >aircraft running all over the area, at the wee hours of the >morning at low attitude, which I will say is certainly strange. >There is nothing out there, other than the mountains and a >carpet of trees. I talked with a Button Top operator who stopped >working to chat with me, and he said himself, and others have >been seeing all kinds of strange lights flying in different >direction, doing strange maneuvers for sometime now. I kept my >eyes on the sky before we had to leave, plus sunrise was also >close. I seen nothing else after witnessing the one bright light >plus the dim one. Brian: How far is it to the nearest airport in the direction you were looking? Reason I ask is, I used to live in Fountain Hills, AZ, and on certain nights, under certain conditions, bright landing lights of incoming aircraft could be seen over a distance of 30- 40 miles or more. At this distance the landing lights looked quite strange, I would guess because of a combination of the weather conditions and the focusing apparatus of the lights. If I hadn't followed the landing lights until the aircraft was directly over my head (we were in the approach path for Sky Harbor) I might have been tempted to report a UFO myself. So I have to ask, what was it about the light that convinces you it was not an aircraft? Thanks, ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Big Balloons From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:49:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:27:54 -0400 Subject: Big Balloons Hi List, in case you haven't seen this one. Don Ledger NASA SCIENTIFIC BALLOON SETS WORLD RECORD Slowly rising from the Northwest region of Manitoba, Canada, near a small gold-mining town called Lynn Lake, a massive NASA balloon began a journey August 25 that took it to the fringes of space. Silently drifting in the rarefied upper edges of our atmosphere, the scientific balloon reached a peak altitude of 161,000 feet (49 kilometers), and with a volume of 60 million cubic feet (1.7 million cubic meters), was the largest balloon ever launched successfully. The balloon carried a solar and heliosphere experiment called Low Energy Electrons (LEE), weighing 1,500 pounds (690 kg), that was provided by Dr. Paul Evenson of the University of Delaware, Newark. "Aside from our excitement and the fact that this balloon established a new record for balloon volume (50 percent greater than NASA's standard balloon designs), this flight should help establish a new platform for science such as ultra-violet and x- ray astronomy," said Steve Smith, chief of NASA's Balloon Program Office at Goddard Space Flight Center's Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, Va. NASA's scientific balloons are constructed of very thin polyethylene material about the same thickness as an ordinary sandwich wrap. NASA's largest standard balloon is approximately 40 million cubic feet (1.13 million cubic meters) and reaches an altitude of approximately 130,000 feet (39.6 kilometers). The system includes a balloon, a parachute and a payload that carries instruments necessary to conduct scientific experiments. "In addition to the great science Dr. Evenson is doing, this is a demonstration that balloons can reach extreme altitudes with relatively heavy payloads," said Danny Ball, Site Manager, National Scientific Balloon Facility, Palestine, Texas. "We hope this will lead to new interest from other science disciplines needing very high altitudes." This flight was the sixth in a series of balloon observations of cosmic electrons that have used the LEE and the Anti- Electron Sub Orbital Payload (AESOP) instrument provided by Dr. John Clem, also from the University of Delaware's Bartol Research Institute. Both instruments flew from Lynn Lake, on Aug. 13, 2002, on a 40 million cubic foot balloon that reached an altitude of 134,000 feet (41 kilometers). The total flight time was 23 hours, 14 minutes. Once the experiment was complete, a radio command was sent from a ground station to separate the experiment from the balloon. The command created a tear in the balloon material permitting it to fall to Earth. A parachute floated the experiment payload back to the ground. Science team members were taken to the landing site for recovery of data tapes within two hours of impact. The LEE instrument was refurbished and launched again on Aug. 25, 2002, on the 60 million cubic foot balloon. The LEE and AESOP instruments were flown in 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000. Roughly 120 hours of data have been collected during the previous flights. All of the launches have been from Lynn Lake, which is 650 miles (1,000 kilometers) from Manitoba. Although originally funded by NASA, the National Science Foundation (NSF) currently funds research activities using the AESOP experiment. The LEE instrument was originally developed and flown by NSF and later flown by NASA. The Wallops Flight Facility manages NASA's Scientific Balloon Program for the Office of Space Science, Washington. Launch operations are conducted by the National Scientific Balloon Facility, which is managed for NASA by the Physical Sciences Laboratory of New Mexico State University, Las Cruces. Raven Industries, Inc., Sioux Falls, S.D., designs and manufactures NASA's scientific balloons. The balloon for this launch was built in their plant in Sulphur Springs, Texas. For more information on NASA's Scientific Balloon Program visit: http://www.wff.nasa.gov/pages/scientificballoons.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 29 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:10:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:29:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:51:49 +0100 >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:45:40 -0500 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>>Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. >>But of course he was a lot closer than you or I will ever be. >>Given whom to credit here - you or the admiral - I'd say it's no >>contest. >No, Camara was not there, he was simply going by what his >subordinates told him in a very sketchy report which is >available on the CUFOS website. I don't know anything about the >internal politics of the Brazilian Navy, or indeed Brazil, at >the time. Maybe President Kubitschek was a bit of a UFO buff and >the naval guys wanted to keep on the right side of him. Has been >known! But, as Jerry would say, whatever, the evidence is there >for anyone to read. In the absence of negative evidence - and, as John has demonstrated, it is indeed absent - we are left with reams and reams of pelicanist speculation, based on nothing except the conviction that, no matter what, the Trindade photographs cannot possibly depict a large, craftlike object. After all, as pelicanist reassure us with every breath, only foolish Americans could possibly think that UFOs may be somebody's craft. >I see no reason why the Brazilian Navy report on Trindade should >be taken any more uncritically than the US Air Force report on >Roswell of the RAF report on Rendlesham. Surely you are not >claiming, Jerry, that military reports should be accepted simply >because they happen to agree with you? I see no reason to believe anything you say about this, John, since you have no evidence to offer beyond snide supposition and speculation, based on nothing you have been able to produce so far. >And I know what you're going to say, this means that the >Brazilian Government was the only one in the entire history of >the known universe to cover up anti-UFO evidence - assuming >these statements from non- witnesses that Jerry demands, >actually exist. Maybe, but I rather doubt that actually, if the >alternative is to say that their Naval Intelligence Unit is a >load of rubbish. This is, of course, getting us nowhere, except to reassure us that, no matter what, John Rimmer will not change his mind, even if he has to engage in limitless evidence-free speculation to do so. >But as he is so fond of reminding us, we are a long way away in >space and time, so none of us know what may or may not have been >going on in the Brazilian Navy All we have to go on are the >available documents, and as anyone who reads them will soon see, >they are thin stuff indeed. They are certainly a whole lot fatter than the very, very, very thin gruel you have been feeding us. >I have said this ad nauseam, and I will not repeat it until some >new material is available (and Richard Hall's cuttings are >certainly not new material. They are second, third, or fourth >hand accounts), we have no direct evidence from anyone except >two people who are known to be associates of the photographer >prior to the incident. We are nowhere near the "48 witnesses" >claimed in Jerry's encyclopedias. Perhaps, if he's now managed >to get his material together (and no criticism if he hasn't, I >know how disruptive a house move can be), he might be able to >tell us where this figure came from. Wrong, old boy. There is some very important new evidence. I'm sorry to say that the news, for you, is not good. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 More MJ 12 Documents From: Ryan S Wood & Robert M Wood <majesticdocuments@lb.bcentral.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 00:39:49 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:21:26 -0400 Subject: More MJ 12 Documents New posts at www.majesticdocuments.com website: *CIA Concerned that UFOs could Trigger WWIII *CIA Advocates Briefing the President on UFO incidents *Edward Teller Advocates release of UFO information BROOMFIELD, Colorado, 29 August 2002. The Majestic Documents investigation team has just posted a set of four, leaked MJ12 documents to www.majesticdocuments.com. These documents arrived anonymously in Tim Cooper's Big Bear CA mailbox in July of 2001. The first document is a two-page Secret memorandum from President Dwight D. Eisenhower to the Director of Central Intelligence dated 4 November 1953. The document deals with Eisenhower's comments on an "MJTWELVE Operations Plan of June 16, 1953 on the subject of instructions for the expenditures of the National UFO Intelligence Program, and more specifically, the Special Operations instructions to be issued to Unified and Specific Major Commands and Commanders." Eisenhower (a) expresses concern about inflaming the UFO situation with the Soviets; (b) reiterates that both the CIA and the NSA had leading roles to play in the UFO program; and (c) confirms that both Robert Oppenheimer and Albert Einstein (described as the director of Project JEHOVAH) were involved in research relating to UFO physics. Both original and replica documents can be downloaded at: http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/eisenhower-dci_4nov53.pdf The second is a seven page document attributed to the Office of Scientific Intelligence in 1976, this is a photocopied onionskin document is titled UFO Sovereignty Over Air Space: A Defense Intelligence Problem. The document is signed by LCR ? the initials of an astronomer attached to the CIA's Office of Scientific Intelligence in the 1970's. LCR talks about the way in which UFOs have violated U.S. airspace on numerous occasions; the way in which Top Secret UFO data has been withheld from elected leaders by the CIA; the recovery of a crashed UFO in New Mexico in 1947 by the Armed Forces Special Weapons Project; the fear of a nuclear confrontation with the Soviets being prompted by UFO radar tracks; President John F. Kennedy's involvement in the UFO controversy; UFOs and the Cuban missile crisis of 1962; and LCR's initiative to begin reintroducing presidential briefings on the UFO subject. The discussion of organizational slowdowns, denied information and management dilemmas are typical of bureaucracies, irrespective of topic. Such references in the discussion are consistent with a pragmatic working document, not for sensationalism or public melodrama. The document in both its original and replicated form can be downloaded at: http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/1970-present.html The third paper is an Executive Briefing document for the Director of Central Intelligence titled "Unidentified Flying Object Implication for Nation Security and Human Survival." It provides a three-page Introduction to a paper of undetermined length written by LCR in December 1976. LCR reveals that between 1946 and 1955 he compiled information on UFOs and the U.S. intelligence community that was included in his book Central Intelligence, UFOs and National Security, published in 1956 by the CIA. It reveals the surprising fact that many secret documents concerning UFO encounters at Los Alamos and the White Sands Missile Range in the period 1944?1949 were destroyed and also reveals how this caused problems in trying to evaluate the true picture from a historical perspective. The paper also touches upon the CIA's role in espionage and UFO investigations, as well as LCR's examination of the CIA's historical UFO studies. The original and replica documents can be downloaded at: http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/ufo-implicationfornationsecurity.pdf The fourth paper in the LCR collection, titled "UFO Technology and the Imbalance of Power," is attributed to Edward Teller and is a five-page photocopy of onionskin paper. It goes into great detail about the nature of official secrecy and the benefits and hazards of secrecy both in the Cold War and in the present day. Teller proposes that official secrecy surrounding UFOs should be lessened for three prime reasons: (a) to stimulate research in the field of military applications of UFO technology; (b) to promote cooperation between the U.S. and its allies around the world on the UFO issue; and (c) to inform the U.S. public of "the true state of UFO reality." Teller also proposes that the majority of classified UFO documents should be declassified. In addition, Teller discusses the use of UFO technology integrated into the U.S. military's remotely piloted vehicle (RPV) program and maintaining an adequate defense against "UFO nuclear weapons." The original and replica documents can be downloaded at: http://209.132.68.98/documents/pdf/ufotechnology-teller.pdf We encourage you to explore our website, our documents, products and efforts. We welcome comments and suggestions and especially intelligence about Majestic's history or current activities. Ryan S Wood & Robert M Wood Majestic Document Investigators For More Information Contact: Ryan S. Wood Phone: 720-887-8171 Email: rswood@majesticdocuments.com Or mail to: 14004 Quail Ridge Drive Broomfield CO 80020 USA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Oz 'Alien' Rings Mystery Solved From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 01:03:34 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:24:21 -0400 Subject: Oz 'Alien' Rings Mystery Solved Source: NEWS.com.au http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4998836%255E13762,00.html Stig *** Alien rings mystery solved By Mak Dunn 30Aug02 ** MYSTERIOUS rings which appeared almost overnight on a Victorian farm had UFO hunters speculating that alien craft had touched down. Up to 40 rings, ranging from less than a metre to more than 20m across had Campbells Bridge farmer Bruce Hemley baffled. Residents of nearby Stawell drew links with unexplained lights over the Grampians. Some muttered about farmer Hemley going on midnight jaunts spraying weed killer to make the circles. "I've got better bloody things to do with my time," Mr Hemley said yesterday. "I put a mob of sheep in there the other week and noticed these circles where it looks like something has killed off the grass. Some of them were fully circular but not quite perfect." The weird patterns last week pricked the ears of the Department of Natural Resources and Environment and they sent pastoral expert Hayley Johnson. But even Ms Johnson was initially stumped. "At first I had no idea what they could be, I hadn't seen them before," Ms Johnson said. A ring-around of some DNRE veterans soon found the answer. The cause was found to be a simple subterranean fungi, which radiates in almost perfect symmetry as it grows and starves pasture of moisture. "They are known as fairy rings because in the olden days they used to think the fairies had been dancing around in circles," Ms Johnson said. Mr Hemley said he never believed fairies or spacecraft were the cause. "Nothing could have landed there because, as I pointed out, there was a tree in the middle of one of the circles." This report appears on news.com.au. ** =A9 News Limited
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Flying Saucer Tale Serious Business In Aurora From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 01:45:08 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:26:02 -0400 Subject: Flying Saucer Tale Serious Business In Aurora Source: Fort Worth Star-Telegram, http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/nation/3961796.htm Stig *** Posted on Thu, Aug. 29, 2002 Flying saucer tale is serious business in small Texas town BY JOSH SHAFFER Knight Ridder Newspapers AURORA, Texas - KRT NEWSFEATURES ** (KRT) - In 1897, a flying saucer came sputtering over Aurora's town square and crashed into Judge Proctor's windmill, destroying the good judge's flower garden and killing the hapless alien. Aurora was astounded. Townsfolk combed the wreckage and found scribbled hieroglyphics, apparently a record of the space creature's travels. They scratched their heads, declared the dead thing to be a Martian and buried him along with his strange metal craft. They even gave him a tombstone. At least, that's how the story goes. Tiny Aurora, northwest of Fort Worth, has swapped tales of little green men, alien technology and government cover- ups ever since. Now, Janet Derting has opened a lime-green haven for alien enthusiasts and conspiracy theorists everywhere. She named her store Area 114 after the two-lane state highway that bisects the town, and stocked it with Aurora T- shirts, hats, bumper stickers - even a candy called Shiny Mutant Pops. Aurora will finally get some respect from the UFO community. "The whole world knows about Roswell and Area 51," she said. "But we were the first one. The first government cover- up." The idea came to Derting on a recent trip to Las Vegas, which is close to Area 51. Like much of eastern Wise County, Aurora is swarming with newcomers. The signs on the edge of town still say Pop. 376, but the total is closer to 1,000 now. Derting and her husband, Steve, Aurora's mayor, don't want the town's legend lost in a crush of subdivisions, and she hopes her store will educate the unwitting. There are tables covered with alien books, including Time/Life books on space creatures and examinations of the real Lee Harvey Oswald. Alien yo-yos are for sale, along with alien candles, alien-themed gourds and T-shirts painted with crop circles. "Hey, this is good for the town," said Jim Marrs, a conspiracy theorist in nearby Paradise who wrote "Alien Agenda." "In Roswell, every little storefront has little aliens in the window. That doesn't mean people buy into it, but they're not above capitalizing on it. "Sprawl is moving out to this area by leaps and bounds," he said. "There's younger people out here with fresher ideas who will believe it, at least as a story." There are many reasons Roswell, N.M., flourished as an alien capital while Aurora stayed hidden, Marrs said. For one, the country folk of Wise County wanted it kept quiet. "They don't want a horde of wild-eyed fanatics coming in and digging up their yards," said Marilyn Maddox, who works at Area 114 on Tuesdays. Still, Marrs said, the story has persisted. Whenever it resurfaces, he said, interested alien hunters call the Fort Worth Star-Telegram or Rosalie Gregg, chairwoman of the Wise County Historical Commission. Both parties have long insisted the saucer crash was a hoax dreamed up by the townsfolk. "We have an interview with a fella who was 11 years old and lived there at the time," Gregg said. "He had all his sensibilities about him when we spoke, and he said that it did not happen." But the town remains divided. On the day of Area 114's grand opening, a man came in holding a medallion he insisted had been unearthed at the crash site. "I'm pretty convinced something happened there," Marrs said. "I'm not going to say it was a spaceship because I don't know." It was enough to convince the Dallas Morning News in 1897. The only space-related story in the Fort Worth Register - aside from a man in Cisco, bound for Cuba with a cigar-shaped airship full of dynamite - involved "credible witnesses' " accounts of a mysterious aircraft passing over Rhome nearby. But on April 19, 1897, the Dallas paper carried accounts of statewide alien sightings on its front page, including a story about the Aurora crash. "The pilot of the ship is supposed to have been the only one on board," wrote reporter S.E. Haydon, "and while his remains are badly disfigured, enough of the original has been picked up to show that he was not an inhabitant of this world. "Mr. T.J. Weems," the story continues, "the United States signal service officer at this place and an authority on astronomy, gives it as his opinion that he was a native of the planet Mars." Marrs, a former Star-Telegram reporter, visited the Aurora Cemetery in 1973 along with a fellow reporter from the Dallas Times-Herald. They brought a metal detector along and passed it over the ground, laughing that the positive readings were probably some sort of Star Trek paraphernalia. Marrs said, "The stone had like an inverted `V' on it with three circles. If you duplicate it and put it together with a mirror image, that design makes a little saucer with portholes in it." Rubberneckers hit Aurora after news stories appeared, and soon after, the headstone vanished. Marrs said when he returned with the other reporter years later, the metal detector no longer showed any readings on the alien's grave. "There's some strange stuff," he said. Derting said she just hopes to lure some of the inquisitive folk. Her store has a Web site - www.auroraalien.com - and soon science- fiction fans will be able to buy accoutrements online. As for what happened 105 years ago? "I think it's possible," Derting said. "I'd be really naive to think in this vast huge universe we were the only intelligent beings." People are naturally curious about space life, Marrs said, and are increasingly open about their suspicions that it exists. As the legend of Aurora grows, fewer people will shut their doors to the idea of extraterrestrials for fear of being hauled away. The uncertainty only makes the idea more attractive. "Somewhere in all that smoke," Marrs said, "there's fire." --- =A9 2002, Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Visit the Star-Telegram on the World Wide Web: www.star-telegram.com. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services. =A9 2001 macon and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.macon.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:16:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:25:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Clark >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:45:47 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 10:45:40 -0500 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>>Adm. Camara wasn't there, either. >>But of course he was a lot closer than you or I will ever be. >>Given whom to credit here - you or the admiral - I'd say it's no >>contest. >Yup, from our great vantage point, it's just another flying >saucer tale, but with another flying saucer photo. And from the point of view of the Brazilian Navy, it was an extraordinary occasion. You'll have to excuse me, but I'm not interested in your "great vantage point." I'm more interested in the vantage point of those who were there. >Of course the admiral, being closer to things, may have also had >a lot more at stake in a cover up. Which you have not provided a shred of evidence to support. Again, like your fellow wing-flapper John Rimmer, who's to let evidence get in the way of what you want to believe? >My, this is a switch isn't it? Um, feels exciting. The hair on >the back of my neck is tingling. Ah, yes, the physiological symptom of the true believer, who never has to worry about what he can demonstrate factually, only what gives him a rush of blood to the head. Rush on, Bob. We always knew you had it in you. After all, anybody who could believe Coyne and his crew saw a meteor can believe anything.. Clearer skies, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:25:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:29:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Speiser >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:05:17 -0400 >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:40:25 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:52:59 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs <snip> >http://brumac.8k.com/RemarkableMeteors/RemarkableMeteors.html >That article has a considerable meteor analysis. What follows >below is a brief abstract from that long article: >A good question to ask at this point would be, what is the >longest duration that one might expect to see a meteor? >I answered this question some 25 years ago at a time when the >Coyne-helicopter case (October, 1973) was being debated. Since >Greenwood referred to the 1972 fireball meteor, let's use it as >an example. (It was also used by Philip Klass as an example of a >long-duration meteor in the Coyne-helicopter case discussion.) >It became visible when it was about 90 km high. At it's lowest >it was about 60 km high. This was a "skipping meteor" which >passed through the upper atmosphere of the earth, glowed, and >then "bounced off" the atmosphere and continued its travels >after having suffered a severe deviation from its initial track >in space. <snip> >I might point out for those of you unfamiliar with the USS >Supply sighting of 1904, that the three objects or "meteors" >were seen for 3 minutes, according to the log (the published >report says over 2 minutes).... and during this time the >"meteors" traveled from near the horizon to overhead (and >appeared to soar upward, traveling directly away from the >observers). They were going slowly enough to be seen for about 3 >minutes even though they did not travel from horizon to horizon >but only halfway ..... truly _remarkable_ meteors! Bruce and Bob: Thank you very much for your analyses. I have already withdrawn the challenge to PJK in a personal email. I still maintain that the Coyne case is not a meteoric event, but for other reasons; but I stand corrected on the 1972 event. Out of curiosity, however, at what point would such an earthgrazer succumb to the friction of the earth's atmosphere and drop to earth rather than escape? In other words, the longer it is in the atmosphere, the more it decelerates; one would think that at some point, it decelerates to below escape velocity. Has anyone done the math on that? I'm guessing that the following factors would have to be worked out: The escape velocity based on the angle and closeness of approach; the rate of deceleration (which I'm guessing would increase as the object dipped deeper into the atmosphere, then decrease as it started "rising" out of the atmosphere. Then from the initial speed of the object, we could ascertain the maximum amount of time the object could actually stay in the atmosphere without dipping below escape velocity. Might be an interesting undertaking. ==JJS==
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Police Tapes Of Aug. 9 UFO Situation, Butler From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:19:55 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:35:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Police Tapes Of Aug. 9 UFO Situation, Butler >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Police Tapes Of Aug. 9 UFO Situation, Butler City, Ohio >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:14:21 -0700 >This is a quick note to inform that Donnie Blessing has acquired >police tapes of an unusual event taking place around 35-miles >north of Cincinnati on August 9, 2002 at 9:30 p.m. <snip> >Last week I spoke at length with a emergency medical technician >and security officer with the Department of Natural Resources >regarding this same event. He advised that a remarkably silent >object flew directly overhead at an extremely low elevation. The >object was estimated to be no larger than 12-feet in length >having three non-strobing red lights situated 3 to 6-feet apart. >The object was said to have caused "havoc" at the Brookville >Lake Campground and numerous calls were said to have been >received by Franklin County dispatchers. This officer >acknowledges that any speculation this may have been a >helicopter was traceable strictly to him, as he was the only one >to see it so close. But he also informs that the object was >unlike anything he was familiar with and that he "would not bet >on" the object being a helicopter. Kenny: Sounds suspiciously like a hot-air fire balloon. I wonder how he determined the actual size of a silent, unkown object in the dark? Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Wilbert Smith Discusses Communication With From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:47:37 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:39:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Wilbert Smith Discusses Communication With >From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo@presidency.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 23:15:01 -0500 >Subject: Wilbert Smith Discusses Communication With Aliens >Canadian Government Official Discusses Communication With Aliens >www.presidentialufo.com/smith_interview.htm >Q: How about traveling about in the universe? Doesn't it take a >terribly long time? >A: I am afraid our ideas about certain things are due for a >severe revision in the not to distant future. I am informed that >time is not at all what we think it is, but is in fact variable. >Also, that the velocity of light is not at all a limiting >velocity. It merely appears so to us because we can't see any >faster. I understand that these people from elsewhere can and do >travel about a great deal and I'm sure they don't take years and >years to do it. Hi Errol, Grant & List, Nice to see UpDates on my screen again! :) Hope had a nice break and are rested & rejuvenated, Errol! :) What a great find, Grant! He was possibly prophetic about light speed too, if the recent Aussie hypothesis proves correct. Thanks for posting it. Regards Dave
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 UFO sightings continue near Youngstown, OH From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:06:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:44:01 -0400 Subject: UFO sightings continue near Youngstown, OH At 12:42 a.m. early Friday morning, August 30, 2002, I received a telephone message to my voice mail from a gentleman informing of a UFO sighting, perhaps currently in progress at the time of his message. The caller indicated there were multiple witnesses. Scott [last name deleted] informed of a UFO over Mercer, Pennsylvania, saying: "we've been seeing this very strange light hovering in the sky for about an hour, we've been seeing this through the binoculars and it is circular in shape and has multi-colored lights, it's blue, red, green, lights have been changing colors and patterns and its circular with lights around the rim and lights in the center, and its been hovering there for at least an hour and doing nothing else but flashing different lights, so I just wanted to report that..." The caller said the object was very bizarre and also left his phone number. Additionally, he said that he had obtained my voice-mail number from a "news station." In closing, he said the hallmark line given by most all UFO witnesses: "I wanted to let someone know about this and to see if anybody else has been seeing this." What makes his report more interesting is that Mercer, PA is just over the state line from Youngstown, Ohio, location of a tumultuous UFO incident this past week. Also puzzling is that the description of the object was reported at the same general time frame and is remarkably similar to the one described by separate and unrelated witnesses from nearby Youngstown, Ohio this past week on early Monday morning, August 26. The Aug. 26th report described 'yellow tracer lights running around the center' of the round object while the August 30th report described 'lights around the rim.' In each case, this is a remarkably similar and yet fairly specific description that seems to exclude the chance that the object could simply be a misidentified star. Earlier this week, a call was placed to the Youngstown Airport by a witness to the August 26th event, inquiring if a blimp was in the area. The tower controller informed the caller that there were no blimps in the area during the Aug. 26th incident. Mercer is around 20-miles east of Youngstown near Highway 80. KENNY YOUNG Aug. 30, 2002 -- NOTE: The NATIONAL UFO CONFERENCE is coming to the Kings Island Resort & Conference Center in Cincinnati, Ohio on Saturday, September 28, 2002, beginning at 2:00 p.m. Advance tickets are now available. For more information, check the website at: http://home.fuse.net/ufo or call 513-588-4548
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:07:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:45:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Maccabee >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:05:50 +0000 >>Surely you must understand that it is up to people asserting or >>claiming that it was a hoax to produce evidence thereof? >>Show me the evidence? >I realize that you've probably never seen a picture of an >alleged saucer that you didn't like, but >1) The photographer took trick photos of UFOs and had published >them. >2) The hoaxer possessed the negatives for several days and had >ample opportunity to do it. Regarding #2: I assume you have a method in mind which would allow the photographer to alter already developed negatives in such a way that no one could detect the alteration, said alteration being the inclusion of a UFO image in a normal photo. Explain please.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Litter Glyphs From: David Acres <dacres@austarnet.com.au> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:32:14 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:48:19 -0400 Subject: Litter Glyphs http://www.rense.com/general28/tell.htm Regards, Dave
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Roswell Death? - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:26:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:52:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Death? - Morris >From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:09:19 -0400 >Subject: Roswell Death? >---------- >From: fort@yahoogroups.com >Reply-To: fort@yahoogroups.com >Date: 18 Aug 2002 18:04:30 -0000 >Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:20:41 -0000 > From: J. Fisher >Subject: Roswell death >Does anyone know if detailed informaton is available about the >untimely death of Congressman Steven Schiff, of New Mexico. >Schiff was hot on the trail of the Roswell mystery when he died >of a very malignant cancer. Have his medical records ever been >made public? I would not have thought so,all medical records remain confidential even after death. Eric Morris BUFPSC RGN
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Big Balloons - Rousell From: Mark Rousell <mark@markr.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:53 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:38:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Balloons - Rousell >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:49:24 -0400 >Subject: Big Balloons >NASA SCIENTIFIC BALLOON SETS WORLD RECORD There is a similar (but manned) British record attempt to be carried out soon. See: http://www.qinetiq1.com MarkR
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:32:08 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:43:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:05:50 +0000 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:08:49 +0000 >>>>Subject: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Bob, >>As usual, you skew the point for self-serving reasons. >Dick, >And what would those be? Bob, Trying to discredit an important and impressive UFO case that doesn't fit your worldview. >>Adm. Carara was a very high-ranking Navy official privy to the >>full investigation, who most assuredly would not have vouched >>for the photos if there was the slightest evidence of a hoax. >You must mean if he knew it was a hoax? >Or was the Brazilian Navy different from our military, and would >never, never cover up incompetence, ill preparedness, a stupid >blunder which allowed the President of Brazil to vouch for the >pictures (he wasn't there, either) thereby turning it into a >world wide political fiasco, or a TRUFO? You must be pretty desperate to start invoking a conspiracy cover-up to explain a UFO case! There is no evidence of a hoax, only insinuations and what amounts to character attacks on your part. Numerous witnesses saw the UFO in the sky and key members ofthe crew saw the image of the UFO on the film immediately after it was developed. >You can't have it both ways. He still wasn't there. Repetition of an irrelevant statement doesn't make it any more relevant. >>And where have I ever said or implied that it "can't be a hoax?" >Sorry, I'll take that back. You agree, then, that a hoax isn't >impossible, only that you haven't been able to figure out how? Ho, ho, ho! A comedian! You just don't seem to get it. Either that or, like Klass, you start making jokes when your arguments fail. >>Surely you must understand that it is up to people asserting or >>claiming that it was a hoax to produce evidence thereof? >>Show me the evidence? >I realize that you've probably never seen a picture of an >alleged saucer that you didn't like, but This statement once again betrays your ignorance of my writings in which my cautious and skeptical views about photographic evidence are fully stated. Try reading The UFO Evidence, Vol. I (which contains a summary of the Trindade Isle case) and/or Vol. II. They will give you heartburn, but at least you will be better informed about a lot of things, including my position on photographic evidence. >1) The photographer took trick photos of UFOs and had published >them. >2) The hoaxer possessed the negatives for several days and had >ample opportunity to do it. To do what? Read my comments above. Did he also hypnotize the ship's crew? >3) The hoaxer fumbled and flipped the second image upside down, >then allowed it to be published around the world. I don't even know what you are talking about here. Newspapers often invert images, if that's what you mean. >Clear skies, >Bob Young Clear thinking, Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:26:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:45:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case - >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com> >Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:24:56 EDT >Subject: Re: Eyewitness Testimony And The Runnion Case >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >The simple fact is John that if a witness goes up to a >skeptibunker and says I saw a meteor, car crash, or whatever the >skeptibunkers will not apply the same standards of proof, or They certainly would require more evidence than "I saw a car crash" if it was for an insurance claim, for instance. The insurance compay's skeptibunkers - I'm sure they employ hundreds of them - would be all over the case! By coincidence, there was a news story in the British press a couple of days ago about a guy who claimed that a meteorite had landed near him. Guess what? Those skeptibunking astronomers were very doubtful about it. >criticism to those people that they do to a person who says "I >saw a UFO." Then we would hear drivial about how any claim to >"UFO" requires some higher forms of proof, etc etc. But there are thousands of absolutely proven, genuine, guaranteed, 100% car crashes; there are thousands of real, in- you-face, go out any night and see them, meteors, so there's no real need to dispute such a statement unless you have something - like an insurance claim - hanging on it. But there are no, I'll spell that out, 'N' - 'O', absolutely real, proven, 100% UFOs. That's why we're still arguing about them, and that's why each reported case has to be looked at critically. >>If a person came up to me and told me they had seen a meteor I >>would be likely to believe them, in the absence of any >Which is my point exactly. If a person saw a meteor you would >likely believe them. If a person saw a UFO you would likely >disbelieve them. Of course, because I know there are meteors, I know there are car crashes, but I do not know that there are UFOs. You of course do, so naturally your attitude is different to mine. >So how was the Travis Walton case independently confirmed? Was >it because a skeptic paid for the lie detector tests and they >all passed or what? I never claimed that the Travis Walton case is "confirmed", independently ot otherwise. I merely claim that there are puzzling aspects to it, which make all the explanations so far offered seem inadequate. >Do you know any skeptics or skeptibunkers who would currently >dispute the testimony of somebody who said they saw a meteor? I >would have to say the answer is no. If somebody comes up to a >skeptibunker and says "I saw a fireball" their testimony would >be gulliably accepted, never questioned and never challenged or >put to the same standards of proof that the same skeptibunkers >apply to people who say "I saw a UFO.." See above (sorry I don't have a reference to the newspaper article) >Convient trying to use TI to dodge the question. Again that >being Unless a meteor hits the ground there is no "physical >evidence" that can be troted over to a lab or labs to be >sampled, tested and independently verified. So other then the >"eye witness" report we have no other verifiable evidence. Funny you should say that. There was another case (reported on UpDates at the time, if I remember rightly) about a guy in northern England who claimed a meteorite had landed in his garden. Those nasty skeptibunker scientist types didn't believe him either, and after investigating found the 'meteorite' was a specimenn from a junior geologists kit, or similar. >That >being said will skeptibunkers belive the eye witness testimony >of a person who claimed to have seen a daylight disk at close >range? We both know the answer is an emphatic _no_ because the >skeptibunkers will start blathering about having actual physical >evidence, actual samples, etc etc. Example, please? -- John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:57:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:54:37 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 18:27:06 +0000 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:39:25 UT >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>><snip> >>>Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >>>Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >>>simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >>>removed to date? >>I know Dr. Leir and have seen not only photos but videos of the >>implants and removals, but he has not presented substantial >>evidence from scientific analysis of these objects to show that >>they are both anamolous and non-terrestrial. >Well... do any of them look manufactured? I ask that because >the two NIDS implants appeared to be natural fragments which >could have been embedded in an accidental way. Just lumps of >iron or some such. To Eleanor White and the List, It seems that there is a serious deficit of information here. From published sources, we know that several implants of Dr. Roger Leir were subjected to metallurgical analyses by two laboratories. These were organized by NIDS, more precisely by Colonel John Alexander, of the NIDS scientific team, following a co-operation agreement with Dr Leir. The first one was done at the Los Alamos National Laboratory. It was then decided that a second analysis should be performed (apparently they were not just "lumps or iron"), and this was done at New Mexico Tech (NMT). The summary of this second analysis was published, at one time, on the NIDS web site, under the title "Anomalous metal samples". (NIDS gave only a very brief account of the LANL analysis). Apparently, it is no longer on the NIDS site, but it can be found on the site of Dr Leir at these addresses, in three documents. An introduction: http://alienscalpel.com/NMTech-intro.htm The summary of the analysis: http://alienscalpel.com/NMTech-sample_desc.htm A letter of opinion by the metallurgist: http://alienscalpel.com/NMTech-opinion.htm NIDS did not publish the letter of opinion. It was published only by Dr Leir, in his book and on his site, and is an interesting story in itself, as told in his book. Actually there were two letters of opinion. In the first letter, the metallurgist, who had not been informed of the origin of the fragment, said that its composition was that of a very hard iron alloy similar to meteorite-type materials. Leir was "astounded by this revelation" (page 169). He called the lab and informed the metallurgist that it had been extracted from a human body. The metallurgist then modified his opinion in a second letter. He supposed that the metal fragment could have caused a calcification reaction, like ceramic materials in dentistry. But Leir notes that such materials are no longer in use because of "tremendous inflammatory reaction" that occurs when they are placed in the body. The metallurgist did not know that, in the case of the implant, "there was a complete lack of inflammatory reaction". There is much more to be found in the book, which should be read carefully before making any fast statement on Dr Leir. It can be ordered on his web site: http://www.alienscalpel.com Buy the first book 'The Aliens and the Scalpel'. The second one is just a simplified paperback. You'll find a detailed report on the biological analyses, and the story of how he came to be involved in this research. You will see that, when Alexander and Bigelow contacted him (and Sims at the time), they wanted complete secrecy, but they were refused. It tells a lot, knowing that Colonel Alexander spent a long career in secret military research, notably at Los Alamos. Of course, this information is not as strong as publication in a true scientific review. But my guess is the time has not come yet for such publication. Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 FOIA Request - 08-30-02 From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:44:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:57:54 -0400 Subject: FOIA Request - 08-30-02 TO: Freedom of Information Manager U. S. Department of Justice Washington, DC 20530 FROM: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 DATE: August 30, 2002 Referring to U. S. Department of Justice official Albert N. Moskowitz's Aug. 21, 2002, letter to me (signed by his paralegal specialist Daniel Nugent -- copy enclosed), by which he chooses not to fulfill my June 8, 2002, request that your department create a special UFO-E.T.-abduction Task Force so as to help end the official disregard for, and nonprotection of, victims (past/current/future) of this worldwide form of trafficking in humans/terrorism, I hereby request that, under terms of the U. S. Freedom of Information Act, you furnish me a copy of all Justice Department-received and Justice Department-generated records amassed to date in response to my letter of June 8th -- said records to include executive correspondence, memoranda for record, memoranda of telephone conversations, e-mail messages, minutes of meetings, document-transmittal slips, legal opinions, research reports, administrative files, congressional correspondence, draft-legislation reviews, complaint-processing forms and referral notices, and all intra/interdepartmental coordination documentation. LARRY W. BRYANT Director, Washington, D.C., Office of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy ENCLOSURE -- the Moskowitz/Nugent letter (No. ANM:dpn;plm - DJ 144-79-0), as transcribed below: "Dear Mr. Bryant: "This is in response to your letter in which you requested an investigation regarding alleged instances where individuals were abducted by UFOs. We apologize for the delay in responding. "We have carefully reviewed the information which you furnished. However, we have concluded that your complaint does not involve a prosecutable violation of federal criminal civil rights statutes. This is not a judgment on the truth or merit of your complaint; it is simply to inform you that this is not the type of case that this office could prosecute. Accordingly, we are unable to assist you at this time. "Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. "Sincerely, Albert N. Moskowitz (Section Chief, Criminal Section, Civil Rights Division); by: Daniel Nugent (Paralegal Specialist, Criminal Section)" P.S. to FOIA Mgr: I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of this e-formatted letter.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:31:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:00:30 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:25:01 +0000 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:57:24 -0500 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net> >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>>From: Eleanor White <raven1@mail.nas.net> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:32:16 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:42:15 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>><snip> >>>Any U.S. west coasters willing to physically travel to Dr. >>>Leir's location and attempt to ask him face to face if he could >>>simply provide nothing more than photos of the 20 implants >>>removed to date? >>Again, let's not give Roger Leir more credit than he's due. The >>"Dr." in front of his name has no significance whatsoever in >>relation to the discussion of aliens, implants or UFOs. >>The man is a podiatrist. Not a medical doctor. It is my >>understanding that the majority of the removals had nothing to >>do with feet. Allegedly medical doctor assisted with these >>surgeries, but at one time (perhaps still) wanted to remain >>anonymous. Some science. Hah! >I do know he's a podiatrist. Nevertheless, he's earned the >title 'Dr.' and I'm happy to acknowledge that. Hi Eleanor, You went on to say: >I agree that his particular doctorate doesn't apply to UFO >matters (unless alien feet are worthy of study), but he's >apparently a podiatrist with _alien_implants_, and it's those >implants I'm interested in, particularly the question as to >whether they are manufactured or just lumps of stuff. I think we can all safely assume that Dr. Lier is not in possession of any genuine "alien" artifact(s.) The first person to produce an _provable_ off-world manufactured artifact is guaranteed entry into the history books. The media would have a field day with such a story, they would capitalize on it immediately with a multi-network 'Joey Butafucco-esque' hyping of the story. It would not only be 'big' news, it would be the 'Biggest' news story that has ever been reported. No such thing has happened. If Lier had anything 'legit' in his stash, we all would have heard of it, or been paying to hear of it, a long time ago. Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:41:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:02:31 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:10:20 -0400 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 16:57:24 -0500 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>From: Rebecca Keith <rebeccas@airmail.net> >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>Again, let's not give Roger Leir more credit than he's due. The >>"Dr." in front of his name has no significance whatsoever in >>relation to the discussion of aliens, implants or UFOs. >>The man is a podiatrist. Not a medical doctor. It is my >>understanding that the majority of the removals had nothing to >>do with feet. Allegedly medical doctor assisted with these >>surgeries, but at one time (perhaps still) wanted to remain >>anonymous. Some science. Hah! >No argument regarding the validity of the science here, but >technically a 'Podiatrist' is a medical doctor who diagnoses and >treats disorders and diseases of the foot (otherwise known as a >'Specialist'). >I would certainly agree that his specialty doesn't prepare him >for the removal and analysis of alien implants (unless they are >in the area of the foot). Hi Steve, This thread shouldn't single out Dr. Lier as much as it should focus on the need for legitimate - as in formal, professional, independent, objective) studies and investigations into the reports of 'abductees'. We have enough spurious investigations, anecdotal and uninvestigated reports to fill Madison Square Garden. What I think is a good question at this point is, "what does it take to get something like abduction reports looked at by the same professionals that are needed to conduct such a study? If it would take something like "hardware" to win them over, then guys like Dr. Lier who claim to be cutting into human beings in search of such objects/evidence need to be held accountable. Much more accountable than they have been, or are at present. We should all be concerned with these types of surgeries on an ethical, human level. Maybe we should even make enough noise to insure that any 'objects' that are surgically retrieved will have a proper chain of custody established, and that any analysis that is conducted is performed by an independent, certified/reputable medical institution. The way these recovered objects and subsequent analysis' have been handled, has been nothing short of abysmal. What a waste. And all the pain suffered by the subjects... for naught. We know nothing more today than we knew five years ago. Regards, John Velez Sign the International Petition to the United Nations for disclosure of information pertaining to UFOs. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/petition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:22:27 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:07:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:06:34 -0700 >Subject: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH >At 12:42 a.m. early Friday morning, August 30, 2002, I received >a telephone message to my voice mail from a gentleman informing >of a UFO sighting, perhaps currently in progress at the time of >his message. The caller indicated there were multiple witnesses. >Scott [last name deleted] informed of a UFO over Mercer, >Pennsylvania, saying: "we've been seeing this very strange light >hovering in the sky for about an hour, we've been seeing this >through the binoculars and it is circular in shape and has >multi-colored lights, it's blue, red, green, lights have been >changing colors and patterns and its circular with lights around >the rim and lights in the center, and its been hovering there >for at least an hour and doing nothing else but flashing >different lights, so I just wanted to report that..." <snip> Kenny, What makes this report interesting to me is the automatic assumption (apparently) that it is a UFO, and an apparent lack of immediate critical question-asking. Anything hovering in the sky for an hour or more without doing anything UFO-like (i.e., zooming around, illuminating the ground, changing altitude, etc.) almost certainly is not a UFO based on my long experience. The longer an object/phenomenon (and I wish people would get it straight that "phenomena" is plural!) remains visible, the less likely that it is a UFO (in any meaningful sense). Observing red-blue-green lights through binoculars is notoriously attributable to color spectra related to the lens system. I don't see where there is anything like sufficient questioning or investigation to rule out a bright star or planet. For heavens sakes, ask probing questions about position in the sky, lateral movement, weather conditions, "what do you mean by circular in shape," angular diameter, means of appearance/disappearance, etc. before talking as if this is something significant. Maybe you're just out there trying to keep us informed of new developments, which is fine. But please make it clear when you are dealing only with very preliminary, uninvestigated, unverified data. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Roswell Death? - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:29:38 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:09:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Death? - Hall >From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:26:00 +0100 >Subject: Re: Roswell Death? >>From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:09:19 -0400 >>Subject: Roswell Death? >>From: fort@yahoogroups.com >>Reply-To: fort@yahoogroups.com >>Date: 18 Aug 2002 18:04:30 -0000 >>Message: 6 >> Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:20:41 -0000 >> From: J. Fisher >>Subject: Roswell death >>Does anyone know if detailed informaton is available about the >>untimely death of Congressman Steven Schiff, of New Mexico. >>Schiff was hot on the trail of the Roswell mystery when he died >>of a very malignant cancer. Have his medical records ever been >>made public? >I would not have thought so,all medical records remain >confidential even after death. >Eric Morris Oh, for heavens sakes! Let's not start assuming all sorts of conspiratorial nonsense in the total absence of any evidence or anything to even remotely suggest that there is something mysterious going on. A number of us in The Washington, D.C., area were in touch with Schiff and his staff. It was open knowledge when he contracted a virulent form of skin cancer. Enough of this nonsense! I heard the same thing constantly about my good friend Jim McDonald, and I know from intimate knolwedge that it was all baloney. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:32:08 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:43:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 15:05:50 +0000 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 23:48:05 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>>Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 21:08:49 +0000 >>>>Subject: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>Bob, >>As usual, you skew the point for self-serving reasons. >Dick, >And what would those be? Bob, Trying to discredit an important and impressive UFO case that doesn't fit your worldview. >>Adm. Carara was a very high-ranking Navy official privy to the >>full investigation, who most assuredly would not have vouched >>for the photos if there was the slightest evidence of a hoax. >You must mean if he knew it was a hoax? >Or was the Brazilian Navy different from our military, and would >never, never cover up incompetence, ill preparedness, a stupid >blunder which allowed the President of Brazil to vouch for the >pictures (he wasn't there, either) thereby turning it into a >world wide political fiasco, or a TRUFO? You must be pretty desperate to start invoking a conspiracy cover-up to explain a UFO case! There is no evidence of a hoax, only insinuations and what amounts to character attacks on your part. Numerous witnesses saw the UFO in the sky and key members ofthe crew saw the image of the UFO on the film immediately after it was developed. >You can't have it both ways. He still wasn't there. Repetition of an irrelevant statement doesn't make it any more relevant. >>And where have I ever said or implied that it "can't be a hoax?" >Sorry, I'll take that back. You agree, then, that a hoax isn't >impossible, only that you haven't been able to figure out how? Ho, ho, ho! A comedian! You just don't seem to get it. Either that or, like Klass, you start making jokes when your arguments fail. >>Surely you must understand that it is up to people asserting or >>claiming that it was a hoax to produce evidence thereof? >>Show me the evidence? >I realize that you've probably never seen a picture of an >alleged saucer that you didn't like, but This statement once again betrays your ignorance of my writings in which my cautious and skeptical views about photographic evidence are fully stated. Try reading The UFO Evidence, Vol. I (which contains a summary of the Trindade Isle case) and/or Vol. II. They will give you heartburn, but at least you will be better informed about a lot of things, including my position on photographic evidence. >1) The photographer took trick photos of UFOs and had published >them. >2) The hoaxer possessed the negatives for several days and had >ample opportunity to do it. To do what? Read my comments above. Did he also hypnotize the ship's crew? >3) The hoaxer fumbled and flipped the second image upside down, >then allowed it to be published around the world. I don't even know what you are talking about here. Newspapers often invert images, if that's what you mean. >Clear skies, >Bob Young Clear thinking, Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Roswell Death? - Morris From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:26:00 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:52:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Roswell Death? - Morris >From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:09:19 -0400 >Subject: Roswell Death? >---------- >From: fort@yahoogroups.com >Reply-To: fort@yahoogroups.com >Date: 18 Aug 2002 18:04:30 -0000 >Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:20:41 -0000 > From: J. Fisher >Subject: Roswell death >Does anyone know if detailed informaton is available about the >untimely death of Congressman Steven Schiff, of New Mexico. >Schiff was hot on the trail of the Roswell mystery when he died >of a very malignant cancer. Have his medical records ever been >made public? I would not have thought so,all medical records remain confidential even after death. Eric Morris BUFPSC RGN
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: New Estimate - Sanchez-Ocejo From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:05:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:27:10 -0400 Subject: Re: New Estimate - Sanchez-Ocejo >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:40:20 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: New Estimate >Is 'someone else' trying hard to get our attention without overt >contact? NEW ESTIMATE: someone from out there is slowly >encroaching on 'our' (is it really... our?) planet. The problem is not 'them', its us. We are awakening to that 'someone else'. For example, the abduction phenomenon took more than 20 years before Ufologists accepted it as part of the UFO investigative field. Even today, many still doubt that alien abductions take place. As well as the physical aspect, the psychic aspect demonstrates the plurality of the UFO phenomenon at hand and its impact on the life of man. We are facing a presence of intelligent or programmed creatures (Bigfoot, Chupacabras, Mutilation, etc..) that have appeared sporadically and have been associated with other phenomena for more than a century, to which, erroneously, we have given different names. On the other hand, in light of the evidence found in Chile, we can now affirm that the Chupacabra is part of the UFO phenomenon. We have not found evidence that it is part of some kind of terrestrial genetic experiment, nor do we believe that it is an ordinary animal. The evidence points to a UFO-related origin - I don't have slightest doubt about it. We are buried in some kind of game where our intelligence faces another intelligence, which happens to be strange or, to say the least, different than ours, where the apparently incompatible logic doesn't seem to work, let alone our intuition. This has been going on for more than 50 years and its continues today in ever increasing intensity. Accumulating data from field investigations is all we can do at this point in time. But, will we finally ever know the essence of these phenomena?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 TUVPO Site Changes From: Erol Erkmen <eerkmen@tuvpo.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 04:43:23 +0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:33:29 -0400 Subject: TUVPO Site Changes As of August 2002, TUVPO, Turkey, has changed to a membership system. Members in Turkey pay the membership fee in order to view the website. Visitors from other countries can view the website free of charge. In order to view the website, a password should be requested from the administrator (admin@tuvpo.com) by filling out a short form. Getting a password will allow visitors to have access to all pages, including English pages. The password should not be shared and we expect all to follow our membership rules. Please do not use nicknames on your request. Sample form: Name, Last Name: Age: E-Mail address: Country: URL address: http://www.tuvpo.com quick navigation for English articles http://www.tuvpo.com/eng.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Big Balloons - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:41:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:36:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Big Balloons - Ledger >From: Mark Rousell <mark@markr.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:53 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: Big Balloons >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 20:49:24 -0400 >>Subject: Big Balloons >>NASA SCIENTIFIC BALLOON SETS WORLD RECORD >There is a similar (but manned) British record attempt to be >carried out soon. See: >http://www.qinetiq1.com Hi Mark, Thanks for the heads up. Slightly different mission of course. Manned balloon, high altitude attempt. Should be a few UFO reports after it lifts off. I copied the mission profile. See below. ----- QinetiQ 1 will attempt to set a new manned balloon altitude world record on a clear day sometime between July and September 2002. A specific day cannot be determined at this point as the decision to launch is dependent on the weather. The optimal weather window has been set between July and September, when the weather and winds above 80,000 ft (24,000 m) are slightly more predictable. Beginning in mid-June, the QinetiQ 1 team will be on a constant 72-hour standby, and will receive continuous weather forecasts from the Met Office to help identify the ideal launch day. The mission will have a maximum duration of 12 hours and the pilots will encounter temperatures as low as -60 C (-76 F) during the climb to 132,000 ft (40,000 m). In this section, you can read more of the details, dangers and timings of this historic record attempt, and learn about the scientific data the pilots will gather from the stratosphere. ----- Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:03:37 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:38:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 09:07:25 -0400 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case <snip> >>2) The hoaxer possessed the negatives for several days and had >>ample opportunity to do it. >Regarding #2: I assume you have a method in mind which would >allow the photographer to alter already developed negatives in >such a way that no one could detect the alteration, said >alteration being the inclusion of a UFO image in a normal photo. >Explain please. Hi, Bruce: We assume that the film was developed, and not double exposed afterwards, either by camera or contact print, before developing. Of course, your point could be right, in which case the double exposure could have been done beforehand, during which the UFO image was flipped by mistake in a darkroom by the bungler. Unless of course the inverted UFO image in the second frame was the "trick" in the trick UFO pictures. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: wo New Items On Trindade Case - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:03:38 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:39:57 -0400 Subject: Re: wo New Items On Trindade Case - Young >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:32:08 +0000 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall <snip> >You must be pretty desperate to start invoking a conspiracy >cover-up to explain a UFO case! There is no evidence of a hoax, >only insinuations and what amounts to character attacks on your >part. Numerous witnesses saw the UFO in the sky and key members >ofthe crew saw the image of the UFO on the film immediately >after it was developed. Hi, Dick: Could you please name those "key members of the crew" [who] saw the image of the UFO on the film immediately after it was developed? And, who says so? Citations, please. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:03:39 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:41:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Young >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:32:08 +0000 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall <snip. >>3) The hoaxer fumbled and flipped the second image upside down, >>then allowed it to be published around the world. >I don't even know what you are talking about here. Newspapers >often invert images, if that's what you mean. Dick: It has been claimed by skeptics of this famous photo case that in the second picture the UFO seemed to be upside down. This was apparently first noted by the U.S. Naval attache who examined the negatives. I am shocked that in the research of this incident for your two voluminous works you never mentioned this long-known evidence which suggests a hoax picture. Obviously, you never bothered to read old Doc Menzel's thrashing of this incident. Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:03:36 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:43:37 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:06:34 -0700 >Subject: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH <snip> >What makes his report more interesting is that Mercer, PA is >just over the state line from Youngstown, Ohio, location of a >tumultuous UFO incident this past week. Also puzzling is that >the description of the object was reported at the same general >time frame and is remarkably similar to the one described by >separate and unrelated witnesses from nearby Youngstown, Ohio >this past week on early Monday morning, August 26. The Aug. 26th >report described 'yellow tracer lights running around the >center' of the round object while the August 30th report >described 'lights around the rim.' In each case, this is a >remarkably similar and yet fairly specific description that >seems to exclude the chance that the object could simply be a >misidentified star. Kenny: Not necessarily, if this were a star seen under turbulent atmospheric conditions. The fact that he watched the object hover to an hour suggests an astronomcial object. But, the description also sounds like an ad plane, but at that time of night? Clear skies, Bob Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - Kenny From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:34:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:49:00 -0400 Subject: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - Kenny >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:22:27 +0000 >Subject: Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH >Maybe you're just out there trying to keep us informed of new >developments, which is fine. But please make it clear when you >are dealing only with very preliminary, uninvestigated, >unverified data. Dick; Well I'm doing my best here. In fact I am trying to keep updated on all the recent Ohio-focused activity, of which there has been plenty to be sure. It's a bit of a chore, especially when the calls keep coming in and there's no way to get ahead. Aside from my earlier ruling out that the Aug. 26 and 30th objects were probably not due to misidentified star (citing troublesome eyewitness detail conflicting with that explanation) and even going so far as to offer that the object may have been a misidentified blimp (not viewed as probable due to calls about this possibility turned down by Youngstown airport), I probably couldn't be any more thorough based upon the available information that I have to deal with. As far as finalized, investigated and verified as per your suggestion, I can affirm that during my inquiries, the August 26th occurrence was witnessed by several people including a news reporter and police officer. This I can offer through my inquiries with 1) The primary witness, 2) his wife, 3) their teenage daughter, 4). The news reporter who I did speak with directly. My efforts are geared toward addressing what the witnesses are reporting and I take speculative action when applicable in attempt to apply an explanation when possible (as per my recent suspicions that the Washington D.C. July 26th episode may have been caused by a procedural military flare deployment, a theory that has been rejected by a number of researchers including yourself). As for a more detailed analysis of the individual claim, the report was referred to a local investigator in that area and that report, as you may have seen by now, was posted to CURRENT ENCOUNTERS. I will enclose it here for others to review. -- KY ----- Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:08:41 -0700 From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Subject: Follow up to MERCER, PA claim To: CURRENT ENCOUNTERS <CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS@LISTSERV.AOL.COM> The report below was filed by investigator Richard Dell'Aquila, Assistant State Director of Ohio MUFON. Richard was sent contact info for the witness to an Aug. 30th Mercer, PA UFO sighting and he promptly followed up on the case. Rick's report is posted here with his permission. + + + August 30, 2002 Hi Kenny- North of Mercer. PA, about 15 miles east of the Ohio border near the Warren/Youngstown area. At about midnight on August 29-30, 2002 (this morning) Scott's mother was on the back porch swing, and observed a stationary blinking light in the NE sky, about 35=BA over the horizon above a tree line. It appeared to be over a small town named Sandy Lake and was smaller than a pea at arms length. Scott says there are no factories, power plants or other facilities in that area, "Just a lot of nothing." After telling Scott, she observed it for about another half hour. Then, she was joined on the back porch by Scott and his father, who observed the lights for yet another 1 1/2 hours, sometimes through binoculars and a rifle scope, respectively. In all, it appears the incident lasted at least 2 hours. Scott describes a red and green series of blinking lights, becoming white blue and amber, all blinking in unusual patterns. There was a red light that moved about around the other lights. At some point, the lights inverted and exposed a symmetrical circular pattern to the observers, blue lights surrounding white lights. These white lights strobed in a pattern toward the center. The witness reports no interaction with the object nor any physical sensations other than the hair standing up on the back of his neck. He claims to have been skeptical on the subject of UFOs before this incident and went through the typical series of attempted explanations (i.e. plane, helicopter, blimp, celestial object, etc.) before settling on "unidentified" as the only remaining description. He says the night was clear and cool, that the moon was coming up and the stars moved during the observation, but that the object remained stationary. Two other more distant blinking lights were also observed, one low in the NE sky and the other to the SE. Scott reports going to bed while the objects were still in the sky. He awoke later to find they were gone. He attempted to video the lights, but describes the result as a pinpoint of blinking light. He called WFMJ television and was told they had also videoed the lights with the same results. On calling the Air Force, he was given your number. Scott agreed to mail me a set of colored pencil drawings and notes of the sighting. I also gave him my telephone number in the event that anything else occurs. I will follow-up with him in the near future. I thank you for this referral and would like to follow-up on the remaining reports you are receiving in the Youngstown area while the trail is still hot. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance, particularly if there is any case for which I should be on the scene. I will let a couple of our Field Investigators know of this possibility so that we can be "on alert" with short notice. --Rick Dell'Aquila MUFON Ohio Asst. State Director
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:00:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 05:53:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:25:40 -0700 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:05:17 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs <snip> >Out of curiosity, however, at what point would such an >earthgrazer succumb to the friction of the earth's atmosphere >and drop to earth rather than escape? In other words, the longer >it is in the atmosphere, the more it decelerates; one would >think that at some point, it decelerates to below escape >velocity. Has anyone done the math on that? I'm guessing that >the following factors would have to be worked out: The escape >velocity based on the angle and closeness of approach; the rate >of deceleration (which I'm guessing would increase as the object >dipped deeper into the atmosphere, then decrease as it started >"rising" out of the atmosphere. Then from the initial speed of >the object, we could ascertain the maximum amount of time the >object could actually stay in the atmosphere without dipping >below escape velocity. Might be an interesting undertaking. If you think about objects approaching the earth as the earth moves along, the objects which travel along a path that is tangent to the earth's orbit and, more particularly are essenitally parallel to the earth's surface, will always skip out (if they don't burn up first). The non-skipping bolides are those which enter the earth's surface along a path that would intersect the the earth's surface if projected along a straight line from the atmospheric entry "point" (altitude). It is my gut feel that whether a bolide skips or heads to the earth surface, perhaps reaching it as a meteorite, is sensitively dependent upon the initial entry angle. To try to come up with bounds on this as you suggest would indeed be time consuming and probably not that illuminating since there are so many variables that have to be assumed (velocity relative to earth, exact angle of entry relative to the radius of the earth, size, mass, etc.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Bigfoot Enthusiasts Meet In Pennsylvania From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:46:24 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:20:15 -0400 Subject: Bigfoot Enthusiasts Meet In Pennsylvania Source: Tribune-Review - Greensburg, Pennsylvania http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/s_89227.html Stig *** Bigfoot enthusiasts make tracks to Jeannette By Craig Smith TRIBUNE-REVIEW Saturday, August 31, 2002 ** Eric Altman dreams of coming face to face with a hairy creature that can stand more than 8 feet tall, weigh nearly a ton and smell like rancid meat. He came close, he thinks, about two years ago. That's why he's 98 percent sure the creature that's come to be known as Bigfoot is out there. "I want to see one of these creatures up close," he said. "There's obviously something out there. We have a mystery to solve." Altman will be among the speakers when the Pennsylvania Bigfoot Society holds its fourth annual East Coast Bigfoot Conference and Expo from 11 a.m. to 7:30 p.m. Sept. 21 at Pitzer's Townhouse Restaurant in Jeannette. He's hoping the public will attend the conference to share stories of Bigfoot sightings and to learn more about the creature. Altman's own close encounter occurred in August 2000 in the woods of Bradford County. During a preliminary investigation into a Bigfoot sighting, Altman and others heard something circling them. At first, they thought it was a bear. "When we moved, it moved," he said. "That's not typical of a bear." Then there was the mumbling. Altman said it sounded as if the creature was trying to talk. "We had goosebumps. Our hearts were racing," he said. "It was pretty intense." Altman, 32, of Jeannette, has been "obsessed" with Bigfoot for more than 20 years. He believes the creature stems from a break in the evolutionary process. "As the evolutionary chain progressed, a separate species broke off," he said. "Man evolved. This thing remained animal-like." You don't have to go deep into the woods to find a Bigfoot, though. One of the most recent reported sightings in Westmoreland County was near Jeannette. At about 7 a.m. June 9, 2000, a woman driving on Route 30 near Delallo's Italian Marketplace reported seeing a creature more than 7 feet tall, weighing about 400 to 500 pounds, cross a side road in three steps. Altman and other investigators scoured the area but found no hard evidence of Bigfoot. By day, Eric Altman works full time for a communications company; his wife, Kathy, works for a local retailer. They spend the hours away from their jobs chasing Bigfoot and running the Pennsylvania Bigfoot Society, an organization formed in 1999 by Eric Altman, Steve Anderson and Henry Benson to receive and investigate Bigfoot sightings. "We get sighting reports from all across the state," Kathy Altman said. So far, the research has been hampered by circumstantial evidence. "Until someone is lucky enough to get actual photographic footage," she said. Roger Patterson and Robert Gimlin apparently did just that on Oct. 20, 1967. The 953 frames of 16 mm footage they filmed at Bluff Creek, Calif., is cited as the best evidence of Bigfoot to date. But Eric Altman believes this will be the era that will prove =97 or disprove =97 the creature's existence. "Twenty years ago we carried a camera and a pocket tape recorder," he said. "Now, we have infrared cameras, night scopes and thermal imaging." One independent investigator, William Dranginis, of Virginia, travels the country in his high-tech Bigfoot Primate Research Lab, a motor home that once served as a mobile veterinary clinic. Packed with all the latest in surveillance gear, from a 360-degree-perimeter night- vision camera to a thermal-imaging system, it's billed as one of the highlights of the Bigfoot Conference and Expo in Jeannette. In addition to Eric Altman, the speaker's list includes UFO and Bigfoot researcher Stan Gordon, of Greensburg; Bigfoot researcher Ron Schaffner of Cincinnati, Ohio; and Rick Fisher, director of the Ghost Hunters Society. ** Additional information is available from the Pennsylvania Bigfoot Society at 724-374-5555. The group's Web site is www.pabigfootsociety.com. Craig Smith can be reached at csmith@tribweb.com or (724) 850- 1217. ** Images and text copyright =A9 2002 by The Tribune-Review Publishing Co. Reproduction or reuse prohibited without written consent from PittsburghLIVE.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Space Station Provides Light Show From: Stig Agermose <stig.agermose@privat.dk> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:47:13 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:21:54 -0400 Subject: Space Station Provides Light Show Source: The Palm Beach Post http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/today/local_news_d30754= 92132a21d20007.html Stig *** Space station provides light show By Tim O'Meilia, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Saturday, August 31, 2002 ** The International Space Station has spun around the Earth so many times in nearly four years - more than 22,000 orbits -- that it seems to be just another piece of space debris no one notices any more. But when it passes overhead in our neck of the globe - as it will four days in a row beginning Sunday - it performs a bit of celestial sleight-of-hand. Just about the time your newspaper is being delivered, just before dawn in the still-dark sky, the station will suddenly appear, star bright, as if from nowhere. A short while later, one to four minutes, it will vanish again in the northeast, as if it were a UFO from a 1950s sci-fi movie. When the space station materializes more than halfway up the sky, as it will Monday at 5:39 a.m., "it will surge in brightness until it rivals or outshines every other star in the sky," said NASA astronomer Tony Phillips. He called it a "space station supernova." The station tracks slowly across the sky, like a slow-motion meteor, puttering along at a mere 17,000 mph to the northeast, giving Earthbound viewers a chance to watch it. It will be visible for four minutes Monday, the day it will be brightest. Some amateur astronomers have tracked it with small telescopes but it's easier to follow with the unaided eye. In truth, the space station circles the globe every 90 minutes, but it's visible to us only when its orbit takes it above us while we are in darkness and the station is in sunlight, just before dawn and after sunset. That's why its sudden appearance is so dramatic. The sun's rays strike its outstretched solar panels, reflecting sunlight to Earth, and there it is. An American woman, Peggy White, and two Russians are aboard the station right now, its fifth crew. In one of her "Letters from Space," White said sunrises on the space station are spectacular. "The rays of light seemed to be wrapping their fingers around the planet." About 220 miles below, we earthlings are left with our small- scale, man- made supernova. "It happens often enough but most people have never seen it because they don't know where to look," Phillips said. Here's your chance. tim_omeilia@pbpost.com ** Copyright =A9 2002, The Palm Beach Post. All rights reserved.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 09:37:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:24:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs - Maccabee >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:25:40 -0700 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:05:17 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Scientific Knowledge and UFOs >>I might point out for those of you unfamiliar with the USS >>Supply sighting of 1904, that the three objects or "meteors" >>were seen for 3 minutes, according to the log (the published >>report says over 2 minutes).... and during this time the >>"meteors" traveled from near the horizon to overhead (and >>appeared to soar upward, traveling directly away from the >>observers). They were going slowly enough to be seen for about 3 >>minutes even though they did not travel from horizon to horizon >>but only halfway ..... truly _remarkable_ meteors! >Bruce and Bob: >Thank you very much for your analyses. I have already withdrawn >the challenge to PJK in a personal email. I still maintain that >the Coyne case is not a meteoric event, but for other reasons; >but I stand corrected on the 1972 event. It seems from the juxtaposition of the above statement about the duration ofd the USS Supply sighting with your statement that you reject the meteor hypothesis for Coyne, but not because of duration, that perhaps you were thinking that I am suggesting that ,meteors could be seen for as long as 3 minutes. I hope you do not think this. The result of my analysis showed that any actual meteor/bolide would last less than 2 minutes if seen in continuous motion from horizon to horizon ( basicallyu straight line motion, of course). I reject the meteor hypothesis for the Supply sighting.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:54:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:25:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:03:38 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >>Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:32:08 +0000 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >>You must be pretty desperate to start invoking a conspiracy >>cover-up to explain a UFO case! There is no evidence of a hoax, >>only insinuations and what amounts to character attacks on your >>part. Numerous witnesses saw the UFO in the sky and key members >>ofthe crew saw the image of the UFO on the film immediately >>after it was developed. >Hi, Dick: >Could you please name those "key members of the crew" [who] saw >the image of the UFO on the film immediately after it was >developed? And, who says so? Citations, please. Bob, Do your own homework! You resemble Klass more and more each day. He used to insist that I look up various references for him. It's all in the literature and I have frequently cited lots of good literature to you, which you apparently never read. I also used to think that it was worthwhile to try to engage Klass in rational discussion, but it always deteriorated when he evaded the facts, started making jokes when the argument didn't go his way, etc. You are starting to resemble him in that too. Another amusing/annoying practice of skeptibunkers like you is to pretend that each single case happens in total isolation, thus debunking each case individually and assuming it is not valid prevents discovery of obvious patterns that can be highly significant. Such as the well-established fact that the Saturn- shaped UFO ("one bowl inverted on top of another") is an extremely common type of UFO worldwide reported by numerous independent witnesses. (See The UFO Evidence, Vol. II, pp. 36- 362.) Good reading (try it sometime), Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: wo New Items On Trindade Case - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 14:59:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:27:44 -0400 Subject: Re: wo New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:03:39 EDT >Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >>Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:32:08 +0000 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com> >>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>>Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:21:15 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Two New Items On Trindade Case - Hall >>>3) The hoaxer fumbled and flipped the second image upside down, >>>then allowed it to be published around the world. >>I don't even know what you are talking about here. Newspapers >>often invert images, if that's what you mean. >Dick: >It has been claimed by skeptics of this famous photo case that >in the second picture the UFO seemed to be upside down. This was >apparently first noted by the U.S. Naval attache who examined >the negatives. >I am shocked that in the research of this incident for your two >voluminous works you never mentioned this long-known evidence >which suggests a hoax picture. >Obviously, you never bothered to read old Doc Menzel's thrashing >of this incident. >Clear skies, >Bob Young Bob, Wow, what an over-powering argument: "It has been claimed by skeptics...." I'm crushed. You seem to be unaware that I corresponded with Menzel personally on this case, in fact called his attention to it. Citations please? Sauce for the goose.... Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:03:09 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:29:44 -0400 Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:41:17 -0400 >Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants >>From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:10:20 -0400 >>Subject: Re: On The Surgical Removal Of Alleged Alien Implants <snip> >If it would take something like "hardware" to win them over, >then guys like Dr. Lier who claim to be cutting into human >beings in search of such objects/evidence need to be held >accountable. Much more accountable than they have been, or are >at present. >We should all be concerned with these types of surgeries on an >ethical, human level. Maybe we should even make enough noise to >insure that any 'objects' that are surgically retrieved will >have a proper chain of custody established, and that any >analysis that is conducted is performed by an independent, >certified/reputable medical institution. >The way these recovered objects and subsequent analysis' have >been handled, has been nothing short of abysmal. What a waste. >And all the pain suffered by the subjects... for naught. >We know nothing more today than we knew five years ago. To John Velez and the List, I am surprised by your very hard critics of Dr Roger Leir. Please note first that his name is Leir, not Lier. I said in my previous message (August 30), that some analyses of his implants have been published, two of them through Nids. I made a mistake when I wrote that they were not on the Nids site anymore. They still are, at : http://www.nidsci.org/articles/metal/metal.html Please read my other message for more details. BTW, do you know these analyses, and have you read the book of Dr Leir ? I got a private opinon in France from a metallurgist, who told me that the metallic composition is quite special and unusual. But, of course, all this is not a final proof that they are ET implants. I met briefly with Colonel Alexander, in 2000. I asked him his personal opinion, and he replied "unconclusive". Please note that "unconclusive" does not mean that there is nothing of interest there. I made another mistake in my previous message. I wrote that Robert Bigelow and Colonel Alexander wanted to impose secrecy on the findings, but that Leir and Sims did not accept that. I just read again the pages again (chapter 12 : Secret Analysis). The story is a bit different. Bigelow did want rectrictive conditions for any publication, but he was offering so much - funds, access to first rate labs, and the prospect of an article in a scientific journal (under the control of Nids) - that Leir and Sims accepted these conditions. Well, we are still waiting for the last item : an article in a scientific journal, but we do have some information on analyses made in two reputed labs. I repeat my opinion : time has not come yet for a complete publication! Another thing : you portray Dr Leir as a man who "claims to be cutting into human beings", etc. Well, I had the opportunity to meet one of his "victims", Tim Cullen, and I can tell you he was alive and well. He was with Leir at the Laughlin conference in March 2000. (where I met Alexander). He is a very strong man, obviously in excellent health after his surgery on left wrist, made two months before (he had a very light scar), and he talked at the conference, as well as Leir. I also talked with Dr Leir and he has very interesting things to tell, privately. Perhaps, some day, more informations will be available publicly? There would be a lot more to tell about Dr Leir's findings, especially about the biological properties of these alleged implants. There is also information in the Mufon Journal (June and December 1998, May 2000), and in UFO Magazine (January 1999). Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 CCCRN News: Double Triplet Formation - Ontario From: Paul Anderson <psa@look.ca> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:56:29 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:31:46 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Double Triplet Formation - Ontario CCCRN NEWS The E-News Service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada August 31, 2002 _____________________________ CROP WATCH 2002 DOUBLE TRIPLET FORMATION - EAST GARAFRAXA, ONTARIO Double triplet formation in barley reported by farmer, found afternoon of August 28. Approximately 30 metres (100 feet) diameter. Large centre circle surrounded by three smaller circles in a triangular configuration. Also three smaller standing circles inside large centre circle, in reverse pattern of the three outside circles. Three initial ground photos have been posted on the web site. Further details pending. This is the ninth report for 2002. http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada/circlescanada02.html Crop Watch is an annual research project of CCCRN, including field investigations and studies of formations, aerial surveillance and awareness initiatives for farmers, the public and the media, in particular during the prime August / September 'circle season' on the Canadian prairies ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail. To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@look.ca To unsubscribe, send an e-mail with Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@look.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, the media and scientists in trying to solve this ongoing enigma. Main Office 202 - 325 East 14th Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 2M9 Canada Tel / Fax: 604.731.8522 Cell: 604.727.1454 E-Mail: psa@look.ca Web: http://www.geocities.com/cropcirclecanada =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2002
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2002 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:17:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 19:33:50 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH - >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:34:14 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:22:27 +0000 >>Subject: Re: UFO Sightings Continue Near Youngstown, OH <snip> >After telling Scott, she observed it for about another half >hour. Then, she was joined on the back porch by Scott and his >father, who observed the lights for yet another 1 1/2 hours, >sometimes through binoculars and a rifle scope, respectively. >In all, it appears the incident lasted at least 2 hours. >Scott describes a red and green series of blinking lights, >becoming white blue and amber, all blinking in unusual patterns. >There was a red light that moved about around the other lights. >At some point, the lights inverted and exposed a symmetrical >circular pattern to the observers, blue lights surrounding white >lights. These white lights strobed in a pattern toward the >center. >The witness reports no interaction with the object nor any >physical sensations other than the hair standing up on the back >of his neck. He claims to have been skeptical on the subject of >UFOs before this incident and went through the typical series of >attempted explanations (i.e. plane, helicopter, blimp, >celestial object, etc.) before settling on "unidentified" as the >only remaining description. >He says the night was clear and cool, that the moon was coming >up and the stars moved during the observation, but that the >object remained stationary. Two other more distant blinking >lights were also observed, one low in the NE sky and the other >to the SE. >Scott reports going to bed while the objects were still in the >sky. He awoke later to find they were gone. He attempted to >video the lights, but describes the result as a pinpoint of >blinking light. He called WFMJ television and was told they had >also videoed the lights with the same results. On calling the >Air Force, he was given your number. >Scott agreed to mail me a set of colored pencil drawings and >notes of the sighting. I also gave him my telephone number in >the event that anything else occurs. I will follow-up with him >in the near future. >I thank you for this referral and would like to follow-up on the >remaining reports you are receiving in the Youngstown area while >the trail is still hot. Please let me know if I can be of >further assistance, particularly if there is any case for which >I should be on the scene. I will let a couple of our Field >Investigators know of this possibility so that we can be "on >alert" with short notice. > --Rick Dell'Aquila > MUFON Ohio Asst. State Director OK, I guess this is where I should chime in and say that I've seen something like this myself. I've never written about this before, because I never thought it more than a curiosity, certainly not a "classic" UFO. In fact I still think what I saw was a star through some kind of atmospheric disturbance. This occured in Fountain Hills about 15 years ago. I observed a fairly faint star, with what seemed like an even fainter "companion" that was "zooming around it" at high speed, probably about 3 orbits per second. I got out my binoculars, thinking it was an artifact of direct observation. I observed the same thing through the binoculars. I described the sighting later to an astronomer friend of mine, who said he had never heard of such a thing. That's the last I even thought about it. Offered for what it's worth. ==JJS==