From josephnewman@earthlink.net Wed Apr 10 10:44:31 1996 Received: from austria.it.earthlink.net ([206.85.92.44]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02924 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [153.37.129.10] (pool010.Max1.New-Orleans.LA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.129.10]) by austria.it.earthlink.net (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA10323 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:43:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:43:18 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: William Beaty From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Intellectual dishonesty and Newman's claims and tests. Status: RO X-Status: A >On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > >> > Why then to the batteries run down? Clearly this last statement is in >> > error where the facts are concerned, as described by the same test >> > results. Anybody else find this significant? >> >> > Well, professor Soule has opened the book of Newman and claims to have >> > proven it right, while failing to address the flaws in what they claim >> > as their proof. It this intellectual honesty? Is this good science? >> >> >> To rshannon: >> >> The only thing "flawed" is the above writer's ability to understand what >> Joseph Newman has accomplished > >NOTE: THIS IS A PRIVATE MESSAGE, NOT ON FREENRG-LIST > >Mr Soule, please be careful not to stray into "flamewar" dynamics. Your >reply to Mr. Shannon is quite contentious. He's pointed out what he feels >are flaws in the testing. I would strongly recommend that you respond to >these, rather than taking insult. It makes you look bad, and also puts >you on the losing side of the argument in front of this group, since >Shannon pointed out possible mistakes and you reacted with hostility >rather than with an argument showing why he is wrong. _________________________ Dear Bill: I found rshannon's attitude in his open letter sarcastic [e.g. "professor" Soule] and contentious [e.g., challenging my "intellectual honesty"]....if someone initiates sarcasm and contentiousness, I am encouraged to respond in kind. Moreover, rshannon has indicated that he has not read Joseph Newman's book and hence has no specific understanding of the technology as presented by the author. Regarding Dr. Hasting's Report: the Report stands on its own....Dr. Hastings has no interest in engaging in a discussion of its merits with rshannon....rshannon is welcome to agree with the Report or disagree with the Report....I should add that Dr. Hasting's Report is presented in the context of Joseph Newman's book with a complete discussion of the technology and why certain test results would be expected within the context of the general technology (as presented by the author) with which rshannon is not familiar. As to rshannon's statement: "Why then to the batteries run down? Clearly this last statement is in error where the facts are concerned, as described by the same test results. Anybody else find this significant?" If you had read the book, rshannon, you would perhaps realize the context in which Dr. Hasting's reported these results. In the larger prototypes, the back-charging effect of the system would typically overcharge a certain percentage of the new batteries. This fact was verified by Ray-O-Vac when the batteries in question were sent to them for analysis. Consequently, when such batteries were overcharged and internally damaged, their voltage dropped....the remaining batteries held up to the back-charging effect and have been utilized for YEARS throughout the operation of various-sized prototypes. In addition, Dr. Hastings specifically reports on batteries being recharged by the Newman Motor/Generator system: "Consulting the battery charts we find that a fresh battery with a starting drain of 150 m amps. (100 m amps. when V equals 2/3 starting voltage) will drop from 2/3 to 1/2 of its starting voltage in a few hours. If the batteries began at 2/3 of their fresh voltage under a drain of 250 m amps. they would be very dead in two hours. The Newman Motor has been run for between one and four hours per day for a total of ten hours. The batteries began at 2/3 of their fresh voltage, and after the ten hours the voltage had not dropped perceptibly. Joseph Newman intends to continue running the motor a few hours per day to test the limits of his motor. Here again, the mechanical energy consumed by the spinning rotor is far in excess of the maximum possible electrical energy which could be supplied by the batteries (according to the charts). An efficiency near 1000 percent is indicated by the experiment to date. THREE WEEKS LATER: On this date the old batteries have worn down to a point at which they will not even run a one and one-half V. small toy (conventional) motor. Yet when they are connected to the Newman motor, the 90 lb. rotor is spun up to 4.5 Hz in about 20 seconds!" Best wishes, Evan Soule _______________________________ > > > >..............................freenrg-list................................ >William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd >Moderator: FREENRG-LIST VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L >http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html >Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From josephnewman@earthlink.net Wed Apr 10 10:44:31 1996 Received: from austria.it.earthlink.net ([206.85.92.44]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02924 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [153.37.129.10] (pool010.Max1.New-Orleans.LA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.129.10]) by austria.it.earthlink.net (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id KAA10323 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:43:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 10:43:18 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: William Beaty From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Intellectual dishonesty and Newman's claims and tests. Status: RO X-Status: A >On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > >> > Why then to the batteries run down? Clearly this last statement is in >> > error where the facts are concerned, as described by the same test >> > results. Anybody else find this significant? >> >> > Well, professor Soule has opened the book of Newman and claims to have >> > proven it right, while failing to address the flaws in what they claim >> > as their proof. It this intellectual honesty? Is this good science? >> >> >> To rshannon: >> >> The only thing "flawed" is the above writer's ability to understand what >> Joseph Newman has accomplished > >NOTE: THIS IS A PRIVATE MESSAGE, NOT ON FREENRG-LIST > >Mr Soule, please be careful not to stray into "flamewar" dynamics. Your >reply to Mr. Shannon is quite contentious. He's pointed out what he feels >are flaws in the testing. I would strongly recommend that you respond to >these, rather than taking insult. It makes you look bad, and also puts >you on the losing side of the argument in front of this group, since >Shannon pointed out possible mistakes and you reacted with hostility >rather than with an argument showing why he is wrong. _________________________ Dear Bill: I found rshannon's attitude in his open letter sarcastic [e.g. "professor" Soule] and contentious [e.g., challenging my "intellectual honesty"]....if someone initiates sarcasm and contentiousness, I am encouraged to respond in kind. Moreover, rshannon has indicated that he has not read Joseph Newman's book and hence has no specific understanding of the technology as presented by the author. Regarding Dr. Hasting's Report: the Report stands on its own....Dr. Hastings has no interest in engaging in a discussion of its merits with rshannon....rshannon is welcome to agree with the Report or disagree with the Report....I should add that Dr. Hasting's Report is presented in the context of Joseph Newman's book with a complete discussion of the technology and why certain test results would be expected within the context of the general technology (as presented by the author) with which rshannon is not familiar. As to rshannon's statement: "Why then to the batteries run down? Clearly this last statement is in error where the facts are concerned, as described by the same test results. Anybody else find this significant?" If you had read the book, rshannon, you would perhaps realize the context in which Dr. Hasting's reported these results. In the larger prototypes, the back-charging effect of the system would typically overcharge a certain percentage of the new batteries. This fact was verified by Ray-O-Vac when the batteries in question were sent to them for analysis. Consequently, when such batteries were overcharged and internally damaged, their voltage dropped....the remaining batteries held up to the back-charging effect and have been utilized for YEARS throughout the operation of various-sized prototypes. In addition, Dr. Hastings specifically reports on batteries being recharged by the Newman Motor/Generator system: "Consulting the battery charts we find that a fresh battery with a starting drain of 150 m amps. (100 m amps. when V equals 2/3 starting voltage) will drop from 2/3 to 1/2 of its starting voltage in a few hours. If the batteries began at 2/3 of their fresh voltage under a drain of 250 m amps. they would be very dead in two hours. The Newman Motor has been run for between one and four hours per day for a total of ten hours. The batteries began at 2/3 of their fresh voltage, and after the ten hours the voltage had not dropped perceptibly. Joseph Newman intends to continue running the motor a few hours per day to test the limits of his motor. Here again, the mechanical energy consumed by the spinning rotor is far in excess of the maximum possible electrical energy which could be supplied by the batteries (according to the charts). An efficiency near 1000 percent is indicated by the experiment to date. THREE WEEKS LATER: On this date the old batteries have worn down to a point at which they will not even run a one and one-half V. small toy (conventional) motor. Yet when they are connected to the Newman motor, the 90 lb. rotor is spun up to 4.5 Hz in about 20 seconds!" Best wishes, Evan Soule _______________________________ > > > >..............................freenrg-list................................ >William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd >Moderator: FREENRG-LIST VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L >http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html >Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From josephnewman@earthlink.net Thu Apr 11 10:45:00 1996 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-f.it.earthlink.net [206.85.92.49]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA29261 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [153.37.129.62] (pool062.Max1.New-Orleans.LA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.129.62]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA26511 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:43:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:43:00 -0700 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: William Beaty From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Intellectual dishonesty and Newman's claims and tests. Status: RO X-Status: Dear Bill: The following is the headline address from the posted rshannon email: From: rshannon@nectech.com Date: Mon, 08 Apr 96 14:14:23 EST To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, johntesla@aol.com Subject: Intellectual dishonesty and Newman's claims and tests. Status: U I have no problem in requesting an apology from someone who attacks me, however I cannot just ignore the attack....as Edmund Burke once said "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." I will never engage in an attack upon someone who is engaged in rational discourse....my goal is the presentation and/or interchange of ideas for the hopefully curious and perhaps rationally-inspired...I derive no pleasure from any type of contentious interchange. In this sense I understand and appreciate the "spirit" of interchange which your Rule 3 is intended to accomplish. Best wishes, Evan Soule From josephnewman@earthlink.net Thu Apr 11 15:28:00 1996 Received: from austria.it.earthlink.net ([206.85.92.44]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA14782 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [153.37.129.53] (pool053.Max1.New-Orleans.LA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.129.53]) by austria.it.earthlink.net (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id PAA20293 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:27:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:27:24 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: William Beaty From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: An Apology from Greg Watson is Respectfully Requested Status: RO X-Status: The following was posted by Greg Watson on freenrg-leskimo.com: >Mr. Newman, are you a fraud or do you have another agenda? > >7)Cut the crap, feed the output back to the input. The world's waiting >for the result with open check books for over unity that works. Stop >selling expensive books to people who want to believe in your motor. > >FEED THE OUTPUT BACK INTO THE INPUT OR GET OFF THE WEB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Greg Watson >The buck stops here. > >PS. Will wait for the feedback with interest. _________________________________________________ This is my feedback on the above posting by Greg Watson: I am sincerely asking William Beaty to request an apology from Greg Watson for the above contentious statements. I don't appreciate Joseph Newman being questioned as a "fraud" or as having "another agenda." I don't appreciate Greg Watson referring to the information I have presented on this Forum as "crap." I don't appreciate Greg Watson telling me to "get off the web." Note: To you, Greg Watson, Joseph Newman's book may seem expensive. Many others have stated that is "underpriced" for the knowledge it contains. The price of the book is a purely subjective opinion either way and has no applicability to the discussion. I believe that Greg Watson's above post has violated Rule One of this Forum and I hope that the host will request an apology from Mr. Watson. Very sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70130 Joseph Newman's telephone/address: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From josephnewman@earthlink.net Sun Apr 14 13:04:21 1996 Received: from iceland.it.earthlink.net (iceland.it.earthlink.net [198.68.160.28]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA27126 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 1996 13:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [153.37.129.12] (pool012.Max1.New-Orleans.LA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.129.12]) by iceland.it.earthlink.net (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id NAA18734 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 1996 13:02:48 -0700 Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 13:02:48 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: William Beaty From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: An Apology from Greg Watson is Respectfully Requested Status: RO X-Status: The following was posted by Greg Watson on freenrg-leskimo.com: >Mr. Newman, are you a fraud or do you have another agenda? > >7)Cut the crap, feed the output back to the input. The world's waiting >for the result with open check books for over unity that works. Stop >selling expensive books to people who want to believe in your motor. > >FEED THE OUTPUT BACK INTO THE INPUT OR GET OFF THE WEB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Greg Watson >The buck stops here. > >PS. Will wait for the feedback with interest. _________________________________________________ This is my feedback on the above posting by Greg Watson: I am sincerely asking William Beaty to request an apology from Greg Watson for the above contentious statements. I don't appreciate Joseph Newman being questioned as a "fraud" or as having "another agenda." I don't appreciate Greg Watson referring to the information I have presented on this Forum as "crap." I don't appreciate Greg Watson telling me to "get off the web." Note: To you, Greg Watson, Joseph Newman's book may seem expensive. Many others have stated that is "underpriced" for the knowledge it contains. The price of the book is a purely subjective opinion either way and has no applicability to the discussion. I believe that Greg Watson's above post has violated Rule One of this Forum and I hope that the host will request an apology from Mr. Watson. Very sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70130 Joseph Newman's telephone/address: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:21:17 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA20468; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318344E8.6536@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Purchase Order for 1 Newman Motor X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Evan Soule Director of Information Newman Energy Products Dear Sirs, I wish to purchase 1 Newman Motor which can deliver more power than it uses. Please advise price and delivery conditions. Be advised that said motor's performance will be tested by several Australian universities and power authorities. Failure of said motor to deliver more power than it uses will be grounds to terminate the above contract, seek recovery of costs and initiate legal procedings against Newman Energy Products and its Directors. (This statement is NOT agressive, it is normal business practice, I just wanted to make my position quite clear). Please advise of your acceptance of this order. Greg Watson Greg Watson Consulting From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:24:56 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA21116; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >--- FORWARDED --- > >> >>Dear bshannon: >> >>Thank you for your post entitled "Errors in Newman's Theroy(sic)" --- >> >>As the title of this reply suggests, the operational prototypes speaking >>for themselves. Thirty scientists --- via their own expense and initiative >>--- have signed Affadivits attesting to the validity of the technology >>after having tested operational prototypes of the technology. Moreover, >>even a former U.S. Commissioner of the Patent Office with "superb >>credentials" (according to a Federal Judge hearing Joseph Newman's suit >>against the Patent Office) wrote: >>"Evidence before the Patent and Trademark Office and this Court is >>OVERWHELMING that Newman has built and tested a prototype of his invention >>in which the output energy exceeds the external input energy; there is NO > >I respectfully request that you list the names of all the abovementioned >people to this newsgroup. > >Zack Widup >w9sz@prairienet.org ___________________________________ Dear Zack: The names of the abovementioned people are listed in Joseph Newman's book....as well as considerable additional information relating to the Report of the Special Master and findings of tests conducted on Newman Motor/Generators. Sincerely, Evan Soule From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:32:46 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA22447; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604281702.KAA20787@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman's Conflict X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: 4/28/96 In Burden Of Proof, I wrote: "A Rhetorical Question: Since Newman Energy Products is on public notice that there are serious questions regarding the truthfulness and validity of their claims regarding their products for sale and since Newman Energy Products appears to do significant business, is Newman Energy Product's objectivity clouded by the fact that serious business damage may result if their claims are proven invalid or untruthful?" In STATEMENT AND CHALLENGE, Mr. Newman (aka the TIGER) exhorts that thousands have found the TRUTH in reading his book. Reading his book may be a very enlightening exercise. However, in my opinion, there is just one small difficuly in this most subtle advertisement to buy his book. The business conflict that perpetually clouds scientific objectivity. It cuts staight to the heart of Mr. Soule's cherished intellectual honesty. May I suggest an easy way out of Mr. Newman's impasse, as many others have done before him. Publish your book on the internet. This will instantly remove the conflict, help repair any tarnished credibility and re-establish much needed intellectual honesty. And, the invaluable information provided to the members of this list will allow them to discover the TRUTH for themselves. Just as Mr. Newman suggests. Since the burden of proof is upon you, Mr. Newman, I have the most sincere confidence that you will do the right thing, place your book in the public domain and remove any apparent conflict. Thank You, RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:34:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA21625; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: The proof is in the pudding. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >--- FORWARDED --- > >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 01:32:05 -0400 >From: bshannon >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: The proof is in the pudding. > >Mr. Soule wrote: > >>I will say this (since it wasn't "demanded" of me): when one knows the >>ENTIRE FACTS of the case surrounding Joseph Newman's ongoing battle with >>the Patent Office, one is quite amazed by the MASSIVE INJUSTICE that has >>been perpetrated against this innovator. > > >>P.S. The Proof is STILL in the "pudding"! And this "pudding" has been >>prepared in accordance with the "recipe" of Natural Laws. As an >>astrophysicist once said, "The Scientific Method is the 'key' designed to >>unlock the secrets of the Universe." > ______________________ Note: the delay in posting of messages has introduced some level of confusion into the interchange of posts....some statements have been addressed in later posts. ______________________ bshannon wrote: -snip- >It is clearly less than intellectually honest, as you personally countered the >issues of ampere turns causing the larger magnetic field by pointing out >that the larger magnetic field reached full intensity in less time than the >smaller, in direct conflict with conventional theory. > >I have proven that this effect is fully conventional ___________________________ Reply: This is ***not*** conventional as Joseph Newman indicated in his conversation with you. ___________________________ -snip- >The proof is indeed in the pudding Mr Soule. Who's willing to actually >bother to look and see what that truth is? Are you? Is Mr. Newman? Reply: I am going to assume that at the time you posted the above message you had not seen Joseph Newman's STATEMENT AND CHALLENGE which has been separately posted. Thank you. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:35:32 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA23413; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31833E68.542E@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Newman Machine... plans? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >Evan Soule wrote: > Isaac Newton's Principia > Mathematica was also a privately-published book. It is unreasonable to draw any comparison between Newman and Newton that goes beyond the similarity of names. If Newman's technology had real merit the world would by now have beaten a path to his door. In this economic climate, after disclosure that's a near-perfect test. You claim to have disclosed enough to make a judgement -- but it is you beating the path (and the drum). There is a plethora of media, ranging from popular periodicals to professional journals, which would gladly publish your revolutionary technology -- assuming only that its function could be demonstrated to the satisfaction of selected peer reviewers and/or editorial staff. So, just do it! Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:40:26 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA24045; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3183410A.6798@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I hereby offer (it's all I can afford) to pay to Newman/Soule the sum of $500k in U. S. currency if the following conditions are met: 1. The Newman technology must pass tests devised by a team of three technologists picked by me from the staffs of UCSD, Sciteq, and Qualcomm. 2. The tests will be conducted here in San Diego, CA. I will bear the cost of testing; Newman/Soule will bear the cost of bringing to the selected site whatever hardware is required to pass the tests. 3. In the event Newman/Soule passes the tests, upon payment of the US$500k I will receive a one percent share in the future profits derived from the technology. Henry Eisenson Introtech San Diego, CA From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:45:07 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA24810; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: Reply to bshannon's comments (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Conventional theory predicts that the current will be the same in both cases. >The current will only be different if work is being done, that is, while >the two >opposed conductors are in motion due to mutual repulsion. The repulsive force >alone does not demand additional current until work is done. Mr. Newman >appears >to be confused in his understanding of conventional theory here as well. ______________________________ Reply: On the contrary. It is you who does not understand Joseph Newman's Theory. I suggest you read Joseph Newman's book. ______________________________ > >There is no valid experimental evidence for this effect, as is shown by a >detailed analysis of Mr. Newman's two coil demonstration. As Newman Energy >Products is aware that such testing has been performed, I think thay are >obligated to address this issue as a matter of intellectual honesty. ______________________________ Reply: On the contrary. Your remarks have demonstrated that you do not understand the two coil demonstration. ______________________________ > >To Mr. Newman's credit, he is correct that copper has a fairly small >hysteresis and low retentivity, but this is not what "magnetic" means. ______________________________ Reply: This is what Joseph Newman's mechanical description of magnetism signifies. ______________________________ > >>Take a 40-gauge copper wire which has a resistance of 1,049 Ohms for 1000 >>feet with a total weight (of atoms composed of gyroscopic particles) of a >>mere .02993 lbs, turning same into a coil with a 10-foot interior diameter >>and 8.32 feet in height. One would therefore have approximately a mere >>31.8 turns of copper wire (copper atoms, i.e., gyroscopic particles). See >>Figure 15-A. > >>If 100 volts is connected to coil 15-A, then a current flow of >>approximately 95MA would occur with total power input of 9.5 watts and a >>resulting weak, magnetic field of .012 Gauss or a mere .000014 Joules of >>energy stored in this weak, magnetic field. > >Here is Mr. Newman's major error. The phrase "total input power of 9.5 >watts" is incorrect, and in complete error. The total power through the >coil to produce the static state (magnetic field no longer expanding, and >current constant) is not 9.5 watts. To calculate this figure, we must >integrate the changing current as the magnetic field reaches its maximum, and >then account for the phase between current and voltage, and only then can >we compute the "total input power" used to produce the magnetic field stored >by the inductor. > >Mr. Soule may counter that this is only my opinion, but this is not the case. >This subject has been fully described in many basic text books, and proven >experimentally countless times. Mr. Newman has no evidence that this is not >the case, but appears to be unaware of this basic fact of electrical >engineering. ______________________________ Reply: Not true. I suggest you read Joseph Newman's book to understand his point. ______________________________ > >>An insignificant current flow would now occur if the current input was >>stopped and coil 15-A was shorted-out to collapse a weak magnetic field and >>provide an inductance of only .003 Henries. > >>Now, conduct another test with 5-gauge copper wire which has a resistance >>of .3133 Ohms for 1000 feet. However, to equal the same resistance as in >>15-A above, one must now use 3,348,000 feet of 5-gauge wire with a massive, >>total weight (of atoms composed of gyroscopic particles moving and >>traveling at the speed of light, i.e., the mechanical essence of Einstein's >>Equation of E=mc^2) of 335,469.6 lbs. or 16.77 tons. Such wire is turned >>into a coil with a 10-foot interior diameter and 8.32-foot height. This >>structure would have approximately a phenomenal 90,000 turns of 5-gauge >>(copper atoms). If 100 volts were now connected to coil 15-B, then a >>current flow of approximately 95MA could occur with a total power input of >>9.5 watts and a resulting, phenomenally larger magnetic field of 23.7 Gauss >>or 1,905 times larger for coil 15-B than for coil 15-A, and 116 Joules of >>energy stored in the magnetic field of Figure 15-B. This represents a >>phenomenal 8 millions times more energy than in the 40-gauge coil of 15-A. > >An equally phenomenal ammount of input current is needed to reach full magnetic >field strength. In fact, 8,566,666.667 times more energy is needed to bring >the larger coil to maximum magnetic field strength. Mr. Newman is of the >opinion that larger magnetic fields do not take longer to generate. This >fact is demonstrated >in the two coil video tape, but is disproven by a simple examination of this >experiment, as well as by conventional theory. No evidence exists for >anything >outside conventional theory in Nr. Newman's demonstration. ___________________________ Reply: Once again your comment indicates you understand neither the two coil experiment or Joseph Newman's technology. ___________________________ > >Just how long would it take to reach this 95 milliamperes of input current >Mr. Newman? Any idea? The L/R time constant here is 25,700 Henries over >1,049 ohms, or about 24.5 (24.4995). This tells us that after 24.5 seconds, >the current, and magnetic field level, will only be 63.2% of maximum. Only >after 5 L/R time constants can we describe the inductor as fully "charged". >The L/R time constant for the smaller coil is .003 (Henries) / 1,049 (ohms) >which is only 2.859 microseconds. This is quite a difference in total power. > >The "total power" used in this (long) process is far greater than 9.5 watts. > >Mr. Newman has compounded his error in not accounting for the L/R time contant >in calculating the input power of the small coil by repeating his mistake again >with the larger coil. This clearly shows the level of Mr. Newman's >confusion on >this matter. ____________________________ Reply: Your opinion. (And you're entitled to it although Joseph Newman would most emphatically disagree with you.) Suggest you read his book on this subject. ____________________________ > >As Mr. Newman has been laboring under the assumption that the larger coil >reaches full strength in less time (untrue, and disproven) this again compounds >the error in not accounting for the L/R time constant, and leads Mr. Newman to >the incorrect conclusion that more power is returned by the coil that was >dissipated in generating that same field. ____________________________ Reply: Mr. Newman knows fulls well that the larger coil reaches full strength in less time than the smaller coil. Conventional science says the opposite should happen! If you still have a problem understanding this, suggest you contact Joseph Newman at (601) 947-7147 --- or better yet, read his book. ____________________________ > >>A phenomenally larger current flow would now occur if the current input was >>stopped and coil 15-B was shorted-out as a result of the collapsing, much >>greater magnetic field of the 5-gauge wire in coil 15-B. Such shorting >>would generate an inductance of 25,700 Henries, which is better than 8 >>millions times the inductance of the 40-gauge coil in Figure 15-A. > >>Clearly these facts, combined with the earlier facts, prove beyond any >>doubt that Oersted's conclusion in 1820 (which is still taught to this >>day): "that the magnetic field came only from the current and not the >>conductor" to be totally false. [Although his conclusion is incorrent, I >>remain grateful to Hans Christian Oersted for being the first to notice and >>attempt to explain an observed connection between an electric current and a >>magnetic field.] > >What Mr. Newman has proven here is his lack of understanding of conventional >theory and how his particular misunderstanding has led him to his theory. This >same lack of understanding has also caused Mr. Newman to misinterpret his >experimental evidence, which in reality totally disproves his theory. _______________________________ Reply: This is your opinion. Joseph Newman TOTALLY disagrees with it. He has issued a Challenge dated April 24, 1996. _______________________________ > >>The above clearly proves that the phenomenal difference in strength for the >>resulting magnetic fields (implying great differences in stored energy) and >>additional current flow when the input current was stopped (inductance), >>had to come from the gyroscopic particles comprising the component parts of >>the atoms within the copper coil. > >>The current flow input was the SAME in both tests, but the number of atoms >>(lbs. of copper) varied considerably from test 15-A to 15-B correlating >>precisely with the phenomenal difference in the strength of magnetic fields >>produced, the extreme difference in the stored energy (gyroscopic >>particles), and the great difference (inductance) in the additional current >>flow produced when the input current was stopped in test 15-A and 15-B. >>These phenomenal differences represent the mechanical essence of E=mc^2: >>GYROSCOPIC PARTICLES. > >Again, totally wrong. The statement "The current flow input was the SAME in >both cases..." is incorrect by accepted conventional theory. The currents will >only reach this same value after an ammount of time directly proportional >to >the amount of energy stored in the magnetic fields. ____________________________ Reply: Wrong again. Suggest you read Joseph Newman's book. ____________________________ > >Mr. Newman's experimental evidence that the larger magnetic field takes less >time >to generate than the smaller one is deeply flawed, and had been proven false by >direct experimental evidence, and public notice of this has been given to >Newman >Energy Products. Nothing to refute the proof against Mr.Newman's >experiment has >been offered yet. ____________________________ Reply: The "flaw" is not Joseph Newman's. A Challenge of April 24, 1996 has been issued. ____________________________ > >To date, Newman Energy Products has not yet addressed this whole issue in a >satisfactory manner. As more material is released on this forum, the magnitude >of Mr. Newman's error has become clear, as well as some specifics of just what >that error is. This message should stand as public notice to Mr. Newman of >these errors, and the total lack of evidence to support Mr. Newman's theory. ____________________________ Reply: The evidence is support of Joseph Newman's Theory is quite extensive. And the operational prototypes speak for themselves. ____________________________ > >>The above facts scientifically establish the position that the mathematical >>formulas employed in the calculation of the energy within a magnetic field >>(intended to represent the potential energy or stored energy of Joules in a >>magnetic field) are totally incorrect. The facts above clearly indicate >>that the magnetic field consists of gyroscopic-type particles which are the >>mechanical essence of E=mc^2 and represent an orderly flow of kinetic >>energy. > >Mr. Newman has done nothing of the kind. By conventional theory, Mr. Newman's >method of calculating the "total power" needed to bring the magnetic field of >a coil to full strength is totally incorrect. It is not the power flowing >through >that coil in the static "charged" state. > >Mr. Newman has not demonstrated that the larger magnetic field takes less >time to produce than the smaller as he believes is the case based on his >two coil demonstration. > >These are facts supported by a preponderance of evidence. This paints a very >grave picture for Mr. Newman's theroy. This also suggests that Newman Energy >Products should immediately begin a major review of Mr. Newman's theory and >claims. _____________________________ Reply: Wrong again. The preponderance of evidence supports Joseph Newman's Technical Process. This evidence includes operational prototypes. Your statements indicate that you do not understand Joseph Newman's technology. _____________________________ > >As Mr. Newman's theory is a product of Newman Energy Products in the form of >the >books and videos, the above facts would suggest that if Newman Energy Products >is actually interested in intellectual honesty, they address these facts >as soon as practical. > >Unless Newman Energy Products can address the issues raised against their >video >two coil demonstration, they should cease its sale and distrubution to >uphold intellectual honesty, so highly prized by Mr. Soule. _____________________________ Reply: See Joseph Newman's Challenge of April 24, 1996. _____________________________ > >If the excerpt of Mr. Newman's theory addressed above is taken from Mr. >Newman's >book, some erratta are in order. Clearly, Mr. Newman did make a major error >in the statement "The current flow input was the SAME in both tests, but the >number of atoms (lbs. of copper) varied considerably...", as Mr. Newman did not >calculate the true total energy input for both coils. _____________________________ Reply: What is "clear" is that you do understand Joseph Newman's Technology. I suggest you read his book. _____________________________ > >The intellectual honesty of Newman Energy Products is clearly on the line here. >Either this is their opportunity to stand by their products and prove their >claims >or to uphold intellectual honesty and admit to grave errors. _____________________________ Reply: See Joseph Newman's Challenge of April 24, 1996. _____________________________ > >The simple fact that inductors of vastly different masses, but equal >inductance, >each have identical electrical performance clearly disproves the concept >that the >number of atoms plays a direct role in the storage of energy in the magnetic >field of an inductor. This also remains unaddressed by Mr. Newman. Bob Shannon _____________________________ Reply: This comment verifies that you do not understand Joseph Newman's Technology. The two coils do NOT have "identical electrical performance." _____________________________ Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 To reach Joseph Newman: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:48:22 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA25634; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: Replies of R. Hartwell to B. Shannon (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Replies of R. Hartwell to B. Shannon re Joseph Newman's Motor/Generator: B. Shannon: J> The smaller coil draws a higher current than the batteries used can J> easily supply. In this case, the voltage delivered drops, and J> maximum current is not delivered until several seconds have passed. Ralph Hartwell: Error.. based on what? A standard carbon-zinc cell will deliver the maximum current and voltage at the beginning of the discharge period, and the terminal voltage will drop thereafter with continued load. It is true that due to the mobility of ions in the liquid electrolyte, wet-cell storage batteries may exhibit an immediate decline in terminal potential when a load is first applied, followed in a minute or so by a slight increase in voltage as the electrolyte begins circulating into the pores of the battery plates. However, I have not read of nor have I seen this effect in a standard "dry" battery. J> In cases where AC power is used to drive the Newman motor, no J> measurements of AC power factors have been made. It is known from Incorrect-o! I always insisted that Joe take PF into consideration from the time he began to power his system from the AC line. J> other University testing that the power factor, or phase angle between J> current and voltage is very high in the Newman device. Do you mean INSIDE the Newman device or in the power supply connected to the AC line? J> AC power meters will not read the true wattage used under these J> conditions. With the power factor of the Newman motor, the watt meter J> will read artificially low. The wattmeter Joe uses was specifically designed to read true AC watts even in the presence of distorted waveforms and low power factors. J> RF wattmeters also will give incorrect readings where high power J> factors are involved. Current transformers will incorrectly measure J> current if the waveform is not a sine wave, again as in the case of J> the Newman device. True enough, if you are trying to read the output pulse. That's why you should not try to read the output directly - it just won't work. J> Tests such as those at the Lucedale park cannot be taken to show that J> the power delivered by the Newman device is larger than that consumed J> due to these factors. The AC power supply uses a magnetically shunted primary winding so the output current is limited. Further, the output voltage from the transformer is rectified and slightly filtered before being fed to the Newman Machine. This results in a reasonably stable input current waveshape during the operation of the Newman Device. J> This issue had been raised before, but apparently never addressed. See response, above, re the wattmeter. J> AS an example, a accurate measurement of 100 volts at 10 amps might J> actually represent a true wattage of anywhere between 10 and 1,000 J> watts depending on the phase angle between current and voltage. True, unless you use the correct instruments. J> By design, the Newman motor renders most power measurements invalid. See above. J> This power factor effect is also present when the Newman device is J> powered by batteries. for this reason, the testing by Dr. Hastings J> is incorrectly done. The power factors were not addressed, and the J> wattage calculations do not reflect the true performance of the Newman J> device. Oops - sorry, no. PF by definition is an AC problem. DC is either there or it's not. Besides, a battery's terminal voltage will fall depending on what the effective current is that is being drawn from it. In effect, it behaves as a chemical averaging system, wherein many short pulses will result in the same energy drain over time as will a smaller steady current drawn by a resistive load. While the interpulse terminal voltage may approach the open circuit terminal voltage of the battery, placing the battery on a steady load will quickly cause the pulse discharged battery to exhibit the true steady-state discharge voltage correctly indicative of the actual battery condition. Therefore, it is possible to test a battery which has been discharged by a non-standard device and obtain an accurate of the battery life remaining. Why do I mention all this? Because of the fact that time and time again it has been shown that when a properly adjusted Newman Machine is operating from batteries, the terminal voltage will INCREASE over time as the machine is operated. Generally, it may be assumed that the battery voltage will decrease as power is drawn from the battery. What conclusion may we draw if the voltage increases instead? >>> J> Every effort should be made to eliminate both AC power factors and the J> at times odd behaviors of batteries from Mr. Newman's claims. This has, in fact, already been done. Ralph Hartwell ralph.hartwell@emachine.com (Ralph Hartwell) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:55:23 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA26183; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: Re: Point of Clarification (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- >To: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) >From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) >Subject: Re: Point of Clarification > > >> >>Dear Stefan: >> >>If I understand your statement correctly you had indicated in a recent >>posting that "now he (Joseph Newman) wants to sue Takahashi." To date, in >>fact, his argument is with Teruo Kawai, not with Takahashi. If possible, >>I'd be grateful if you could amend this statement. Thanks! > >Ahh, I see, so I did get it wrong. > >Sure I can post it that I have understood it wrong. Sorry. > >But, I would suggest to fool the US patent office just to register a patent >for Joe Newman, where there is no expression on GREATER External Out than Input, >so just register your type of motor and try to get into production... > > >Surely Kawai probably has learned from Joe to get his design overunity, >but to sue him now seems to me to be the wrong way for Newman I would guess... > >Better try to get your motors into production and let the market decide, which >technology will be sold... > >I am also PRO Newman and I will support your technology with my WEB site. > Regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 14:57:57 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA26955; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:50:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: UTILIZATION OF THE NEWMAN MOTOR/GENERATOR (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- From: ralph.hartwell@emachine.com (Ralph Hartwell) To: josephnewman@earthlink.com _________________________________________ Note: The views expressed herein may or may not represent the position of Joseph Newman and, as informational material, are provided here from submissions by other individuals interested in the technology _________________________________________ Concerning the Commercial Application of The Energy Invention of Mr. Joseph W. Newman I have recently had the opportunity to visit with Mr. Newman at his workshop and take a close look at a new application of a particular embodiment of his energy invention. I believe that this unit which he demonstrated for me has definite commercial possibilities. I was able to make my own measurements to verify his claims. Background of The Invention The energy invention of Mr. Newman may be built so as to be used in several different ways. It may be designed to produce electrical energy with which to recharge batteries and operate other electrical devices, or it may be constructed so as to produce a surplus of mechanical power. When constructed in this manner, the device operates as an extremely efficient electric motor, and requires very little electrical energy to produce substantial mechanical work. If his invention is considered solely as an electric motor, then it violates well-established engineering design guidelines for building motors. In fact, it would appear that Mr. Newman has rewritten the engineering textbooks on motor design with this device. Engineers well versed in conventional motor design may not at first understand what he has done, nevertheless, they are surprised and delighted at the results, for the power output is far greater than is possible to obtain from conventional electric motors. Practical Application In the case described in this paper, Mr. Newman has taken one of his motors and attached it to a circular table saw. The saw is mounted on a hand constructed wooden table, about two feet by two and a half feet across and of convenient working height. This size makes for ready portability and ease of carrying. The Motor The motor (of his own design) is about 5 inches in diameter and about 14 inches in overall length. Since it is bolted down, I cannot tell you the exact weight, but on the basis of his previous motor designs, I would estimate that this particular unit weighs between 15 and 20 pounds. Power Source The power source for the motor is a bank of conventional alkaline "dry" batteries in a series connection. This is the same type of power source which is used for most of Mr. Newman's other motor designs. These batteries are mounted on a wooden shelf which is placed below the motor. The total battery voltage applied to the motor at full operating speed is about 5,500 Volts. This battery voltage is applied to the motor in steps during the start-up period, but this appears to be due to some imperfections in the design of the hand-made commutator. This stepped starting procedure also achieves better battery use. Construction and Design This motor is connected to a 6 inch carbide tipped general purpose saw blade through a timing belt speed reduction system. This method was chosen for minimal mechanical energy loss and belt slippage. The speed reduction is single stage, with a drive pulley of about 3/4 inch diameter and a driven pulley about 3 inches in diameter. The belt used is a cogged tooth timing belt about 3/4 inch wide. This prototype unit uses bronze bushings for bearings in the speed reduction system. As a result, the drive system has quite a bit of friction in the reduction pulley bearings. The belt is also a bit narrow for the power to be transmitted. (I've worked with these belts before, and they are a good choice for this application.) Mr. Newman plans to add ball bearings and a wider belt to improve the efficiency of his prototype. Operation and Results The motor drives the saw blade at what I would estimate at about 800 to 1200 RPM. (This is an "eyeball estimate".) The saw can cut a hard pine 1 X 2 board cleanly through in about 2 seconds with little change in RPM. It cuts a 2 X 4 in only a little more time. While running free with no load, the motor draws about 5 watts. When cutting the 1 X 2, the system draws about 25 to 30 watts. June 19, 1991 (update) I have had the occasion to work closely with Mr. Newman over the course of the last 8 years, and make tests on various models of his energy invention. This discussion pertains to that version popularly knows as the "saw motor". I had an opportunity to observe and test the device shortly after Mr. Newman assembled the unit, and later, after he had redesigned it for greater efficiency. The following paper, written after my first observation and testing of his saw motor is included here for background information. A further discussion of the motor in it's present embodiment follows this earlier paper. Although the motor has been redesigned, the same basic facts still are true - the device exhibits extremely high efficiencies as a motor, and has great potential for commercialization. When you compare this to a regular table saw - or any other type of power-driven saw for that matter, these power consumption figures are quite impressive. This extremely low power requirement means that a power saw being driven by a Newman Motor may easily be operated from a solar panel using a standard storage battery and a transistorized high voltage power inverter. In fact, while I was at his workshop, Mr. Newman demonstrated the saw operating from a high voltage DC power supply running on a transistorized power inverter which was connected to a small "Gel Cell" 12 volt storage battery. Even allowing for the loss in efficiency to be expected from the power inverter/battery combination, and allowing for twice the power input to the motor to allow cutting thicker and harder materials, this device could easily be used with solar panels and/or storage batteries in areas where there is no commercial electric power available. Conclusion I feel that this version of Mr. Newman's invention may be used with any device which requires mechanical power from a motor. It is my belief that this particular embodiment of Mr. Newman's invention has strong commercial applications. Although it will require some research and development to determine the best way to manufacture the device, I feel it should be actively pursued and brought to commercial production as soon as possible. In the revised form the motor exhibits a power consumption of between 7 and 20 times less than the saber saw motor to perform the same task. Some concern has been raised by outside observers as to whether the saber saw has an oversized motor, and that because of this, the test may be invalid. It should be noted that tests of the saber saw indicate that using the proper blade as recommended by the manufacturer, the saw is capable of cutting through the 1 X 2 board at the rate demonstrated by Mr. Newman without excessive difficulty. If the motor was actually overpowered, the saber saw should be able to cut through he wood at a much faster rate. In actual fact, however, the saber saw will "bog down" when an attempt is made to speed up the rate of cut through the wood. In addition, the saber saw motor begins to draw much greater current, and the efficiency decreases. This indicates that the saber saw motor is not overpowered, but instead, it is well matched to the load it has to handle. In contrast, Newman's motor can be forced to cut the wood even faster than he has demonstrated. When this is done and the increase in motor current is measured, it is found that the slightly increased power used by the motor indicates that the motor is still operating at a very high efficiency. If anything, it is the Newman Motor that is overpowered, and not the saber saw. Ralph M. Hartwell II Copyright 1989-1996, Ralph M. Hartwell, II _________________________________________ Note: The above article was written several years ago. The principles described above are generally applicable "across the breadth of the technology." However, considerable improvements to the commutator design have been made in the recent past. These improvements are intended to actually reduce the intensity of the sparking by distributing the physical connections over a wider area. The reader should bear in mind that there are TWO totally different design systems (but many sub-configurations within each basic design): there is one commutator design when the energy machine is intended to function as a GENERATOR and a totally different commutator design when the energy machine is intended to function as a MOTOR. The latest design improvements to the commutator system apply to the machine operating as a MOTOR. Subsequent torque can be utilized for mechanical systems or can be used in conjunction with a conventional generator. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 _________________________________________ From bilb@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 11:08:20 1996 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA07854 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 11:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by eskimo.com (8.7.5) id LAA14500; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 11:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 11:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@mail.eskimo.com Subject: fnrg: Clarification of misinformation (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- To the general membership of this Forum: One of the members posted the following website as a place to visit for information about Joseph Newman's technology. http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/web/physics/JosephNewman/newman.explain.02 I had an opportunity to visit this website and fax the information about the New Mexico "test" to Joseph Newman in Lucedale, Mississippi. This was the first time that Joseph Newman had seen this posted material. The following is his response to what was written by Paul Houle: "These are the type of lies and distortions of truth that make me so angry. "Gordon Kane was chosen as an expert in oscilloscope reading. He was the Director of the Laboratory I visited at New Mexico (Tech). No one looked at the oscilloscope but Gordon Kane. All attending professors stood back with their arms folded or left the room. New Mexico (Tech) did NOT test my invention and told Gordon Kane NOT to use their name. Gordon Kane stated unequivocally that the Invention worked and did so in writing many times. He felt so strongly that I was correct that he resigned his position at New Mexico (Tech) and came and worked with me from time to time. "To Bob Shannon: you have been confused by this false information. Moreover, all tests conducted by Dr. Hastings and others were off of D.C. Battery Packs. NOT AC! The 10,000 lb unit (later upscaled to 15,000 lbs) ran on 200 Volts DC." Joseph W. Newman _________________________________________ I will endeavor to ask the host of the above website to correct the misinformation contained within that site by posting Joseph Newman's response. Thank you. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684 New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 "misinformation creates confusion which creates contention" From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 15:05:03 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA27559; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: Clarification of misinformation (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- To the general membership of this Forum: One of the members posted the following website as a place to visit for information about Joseph Newman's technology. http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/web/physics/JosephNewman/newman.explain.02 I had an opportunity to visit this website and fax the information about the New Mexico "test" to Joseph Newman in Lucedale, Mississippi. This was the first time that Joseph Newman had seen this posted material. The following is his response to what was written by Paul Houle: "These are the type of lies and distortions of truth that make me so angry. "Gordon Kane was chosen as an expert in oscilloscope reading. He was the Director of the Laboratory I visited at New Mexico (Tech). No one looked at the oscilloscope but Gordon Kane. All attending professors stood back with their arms folded or left the room. New Mexico (Tech) did NOT test my invention and told Gordon Kane NOT to use their name. Gordon Kane stated unequivocally that the Invention worked and did so in writing many times. He felt so strongly that I was correct that he resigned his position at New Mexico (Tech) and came and worked with me from time to time. "To Bob Shannon: you have been confused by this false information. Moreover, all tests conducted by Dr. Hastings and others were off of D.C. Battery Packs. NOT AC! The 10,000 lb unit (later upscaled to 15,000 lbs) ran on 200 Volts DC." Joseph W. Newman _________________________________________ I will endeavor to ask the host of the above website to correct the misinformation contained within that site by posting Joseph Newman's response. Thank you. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684 New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 "misinformation creates confusion which creates contention" From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 15:15:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29910; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: Re: NEWMAN Motor circuit GIF pic (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:53:15 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: bilb@eskimo.com Subject: Error Condition Re: NEWMAN Motor circuit GIF pic bilb@eskimo.com: You are not subscribed to freenrg-l@eskimo.com. Your message is returned to you unprocessed. If you want to subscribe, send mail to listproc@eskimo.com with the following request: subscribe FREENRG-L Your Name In addition, the system found the following address(es) that resemble yours. If one of these is you, please resend your message from that one, or use the 'set address' request to change the address you are subscribed with: BILB@MAIL.ESKIMO.COM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- section 1 of uuencode 5.10 of file newmcirc.gif by R.E.M. begin 644 newmcirc.gif M1TE&.#=A@`*0`?`!`/___P```"P`````@`*0`0`"_X2/JHJ:JKK*VNKZ"ALK.TM; M:WN+FZN[R]OK^PL<+#Q,7&Q\C)RLO,S<[/P,'2T]35UM?8V=K;W-W>V]%!!@ M$/Y=?DP.@'ZB_L!N_HY([EXRSU`/CQ\H+XX0KKY_`.`X?NC\^0MX<*!!A/\6 MYGLHQR'#@P8I5B2(46'"=/\.+VHL6!&B2#<2!YJ\*`ZE28[]^"E@!S,CRYDC M:Z(1N!)@RIWI9H)LF2`D0J`^7=H\>@9G498\Y2VE"=7CT*D_D5HM4W6I4YU/ M8Q+U2E7FU;%@LOYL2+,JV)Q&P68E"W<+6HX+TXVJ6('HT!I2E M4;!6'*%UN]>T:]N^C3NW[MV\85^1/5MUAM0,6Q!'C!HV\)Z9N\P#_=9=2>%! M?=NS'F*Y[.?87R[J/D5T7[%105,/>`$\!_4+U"^W]]W+8;7DW;*G?+\]O>'! 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It is the electronic circuit of the rotary type motor. The coil (Spule) is drawn as the electronic compensation components (L,R,C) and "Leuchtstofflampen" means neon tubes. The "Kommutator" is the commutator sitting on the rotary magnet inside the coil. After 180 degrees of rotation the current is reversed inside the coil. Then also the huge back current pulse appears. (At least in Newman's first big machines....) During the rotation the circuit is also opened and closed via the commutator, this is the single switch in the circuit diagram at the "Kommutator". This is an old pic. I will have more infos soon on my WEB site at: http://www.overunity.de Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de or harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti _Check out our INTERNET MPEG CD-ROM ! Visit the WEB site !_ Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 15:21:06 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA00980; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: Beyond Newman... (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- < fm: Henry Eisenson > I suggest that those who have "faith" in Newman's technology conduct private dialogs with his spokesman, Evan Soule. They can buy the book, pay fees to enter the seminars, and make donations or even investments. But the rest of us, who have more faith in physics than in rhetoric, remain interested in new energy sources and should not have that interest diluted by this neverending story. Here's a new topic: Perhaps you know something of nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR)... it's a simple phenomenon, whereby an atomic nucleus is placed in a magnetic field and then radiated with radio-frequency (RF) energy at a frequency (the "resonant frequency") at which the nucleus -- at that specific field strength -- is stimulated to re-orient itself in line with the magnetic field. Then, when the RF is removed, the nucleus precesses (returns) to its original orientation. In so doing, it acts like a conductor in that magnetic field, generating energy. That energy is also at the resonant frequency, and is detectable with an ordinary radio-frequency receiver. Every atomic nucleus has its own resonant frequency. The *most common* expression of this technology is in spectroscopy, where an unknown mass is irradiated, and differential examination of the resulting output determines the content of that mass. The *best known* expression is in Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI), where hydrogen (simple nucleus, always there in water) is resonated and the data are processed by algorithms to produce images of the mass --- in this case, typically, the human body. I walked you through this to show that NMR is not mysterious or new -- it's been around for more than thirty years and is a very well understood technology. I also wish you to retain one interesting aspect of it --- our ability to control the orientation of the nucleus of ANY atom by placing it in a magnetic field of a known strength, and then applying RF energy. With me so far?? Look again at cold fusion (flames cheerfully ignored). I submit to you that applying to cold fusion the capability derived from NMR -- the ability to exquisitely manage the orientation of the nucleii of a material -- may be the missing ingredient. Years ago, during the Utah flap, I was working in RF generation for NMR systems, and the concept came to me. I presented it to a prominent local physicist whose imagination was similarly captured. We worked on the math -- he was a light year ahead of me -- and the result was exciting enough for me to file disclosure documents with the patent office. He claimed to have developed a mathematical solution based upon my concept. He died. In the face of the abuse and professional scorn heaped upon cold fusion I could not find additional support among his colleagues -- gradually the fever abated and I went on with my life. I had a company to run and a family to raise. Anyone interested in resurrecting this? Henry Eisenson Introtech San Diego From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 15:23:48 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA01641; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:17:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: Re: Regarding Tesla (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- < fm: Robin van Spaandonk > On Tue, 16 Apr 1996 01:37:09 -0700 (PDT), Doyle P. Henderson wrote: [snip] >Also, I got a reply to my message about the hole in the >ground in Australia. The respondent lives in Australia >and in effect said that it might be easy for us in the USA >to think such things exist, but not for him... and that >he'd never heard of such a deep hole anywhere. I was that respondent. > >So, here is my reply to him, and please don't get upset, >just enjoy this stuff. Incidentally, I'm not a sci-fi >author--- just a semi-retired aerospace test equipment >engineer and come-lately computer programmer. > >Best regards to you all.... I'm enjoying the exchanges. > Doyle Henderson, panacea@bigbear.net > >--------------4E9B5FEFD71 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Disposition: inline; filename="BOREHOLE.TXT" > > > >I received your message regarding how easy it might be for an American >to envision super-secret facilities way off in Australia. While that >might often be the case, it was not what prompted me to post the brief >mention of the deep hole installation believed to be located somewhere >in Australia. Wanting to make a brief inquiry, I purposedly omitted >its alleged location at Pine Gap, which is about 10 miles from the >dead center of Australia. Pine Gap is well known here in Australia, as a defence installation primarily operated by the Americans. [snip] >The Pine Gap facility also has been called the Joint Defense Space >Research Facility and is said to have several other functions. It has >been said that it has a rather deep and straight water bore hole. The >bore was drilled to at least 28,000 feet depth. Thats 5.2 miles! I don't know whether or not this is true, however I had not heard it earlier. I have seen TV footage of the radar domes at the site. >. >If it exists, it might be used as an underground antenna for very low >frequency radio or electrical power broadcasts. Or, the bore antenna >might be used to tune a gigantic "standing wave" electromagnetic field >around the entire planet. The system might be tuned to say, 10 to 15 >kilohertz. (I have learned that EMF energy (radio) from lightning >flashes around the world are commonly detected in this frequency range >[as well as much higher frequencies] and is known to travel over great >distances. I experimented with lightning receivers years ago which >could locate and display the presence of thunderstorms in light >aircraft. Sperry later placed such a product on the market.) > >An electric field, tuned to resonance, might be extended as high as >200 miles above the earth. Sub-surface wave propagation to underwater >vehicles also may be enhanced by such ultra-low frequencies permitted >by a 5-mile long radiating element. To the best of my knowledge, this is usually done with large surface antennae, which are much cheaper to construct, than 5 mile deep bore holes. There may however be a bore hole at Pine Gap, probably the local water supply. Artesian bores, form the only water supply of much of the Australian outback. > >Some rumors suggested that a very large nuclear reactor was built at >Pine Gap. It was suggested that it supplied power to a very enormous As far as I (and the Australian public at large) know(s), the only nuclear reactor in Australia is (was?) at Lucas Heights (in NSW?). I believe that the construction of a large nuclear reactor by the Americans at Pine Gap would strain the friendly relations between our two nations to the limit. More to the point, I don't believe it could happen. Furthermore, such a reactor would require large cooling towers as there are no noteworthy rivers in that part of Australia. No such towers were in evidence in the TV footage I have seen. >electromagnetic wave or particle transmitter. Other rumored projects >supposedly included a high-energy pulsating plasma generator-- shades >of death rays, plasma cannons, or beam generators-- capable of sending >low frequency engery vertically-- out of the bore hole out into space >where collectors, mirrors, or electromagnetic reflectors-- beamed or >perhap,s broadcast, the energy-- possibly at very long wavelengths. For such long wavelengths, space based reflectors would need to be of such gigantic proportions, that such a satellite would be easily visible to the naked eye. Look up, I don't think you will see it. > >Some individuals speculate the transmission of power sufficient to >charge electric battery-powered submarines submerged at a distance. Why bother when the USA already has a fleet of nuclear powered submarines. Furthermore, why should such broadcast energy only be collected by _your_ submarines, and not by those of your enemies, or for that matter by every metal structure in the oceans of the planet. > >You might also check out an earlier location of a station used to >transmit very powerful very-low-frequency undersea signals (if not >electrical current). You may find it at the North West Cape near >Exmouth Bay in Australia. It may still be used to transmit to There is indeed another installation at North West cape. I believe that one or both of them were used at one stage of the Gulf War, as message relay stations. >U.S. submarines which would trail long antennae behind them. These >systems supposedly can recharge special on-board batteries named: >"plasma-dynamic storage cells" that have high voltage capabilies.. > >The existence of such a facility may not have been known to you >before now; but, your own "The Nation Review" which is a national >Australian newspaper-- printed in its May 17-23, 1974 issue some >rather remarkable words: Quote: > >"The Pine Gap research facility near Alice Springs has managed >to keep secret, until now, one of the most unbelievable research >projects in the world." >" >"The United States has been carrying out continuous research into >electromagnetic propulsion (EMP for short) at Pine Gap since it >was established in 1966." I always thought that EMP was an abbreviation of Electro Magnetic Pulse, being the pulse generated by the explosion of a nuclear warhead high in the atmosphere. > >"...Nixon (former U.S. President) last year announced 1975 as a >target date for the completion of the project. At that time it >was to relieve the petrol crisis". Unquote. > >Plans to use post-hypnotic suggestions to implant memory loss in >certain personnel at Pine Gap were replaced when it was discovered >that LSD and certain other hallucinogens sometimes removed such >hypnotic effects. Pine Gap projects: Noah's Arc, and The Bolt Hole. > >There also are alleged sister facilities elsewhere-- at least >one in the Pacific (Guam?) and one at Transvaal, South Africa. >There, more than 1,100 employees are said to be members of the >U.S. consular staff. (Absurd?) Rumors connect it with another >VLF station at the South Pole... 'Operation Deep Freeze'? >Shortly after these operations began, ozone layer depletions >were detected--- coincidence, or not? > >So, you see-- many pieces of information about secret projects >may leak out-- but, what it's all about may never come out or >only get figured out many years after they are implemented. > >The Manhattan Project at Oak Ridge, which employed over 100,000 >people in unprencedented, new gigantic facilities, managed to >keep the Japanese from knowing we were refining uraniam there >to build an atomic bomb at Los Alamos. Apparently, the trick >is to keep people from knowing anything about what is going on >or about the purpose of the facility-- telling them only what >they need to know to do their own small part-- and also giving >them false information--- disinformation to mislead them. > >We can speculate that Pine Gap is just one grid pole in a >secret planetary electric power broadcasting program. And, >to confuse people, several other activities may also be >going on out there. Certainly, this message does NOT purport >to be accurate, authenticated, validated, or anything but >information of possible interest to certain people who know >OTHER things and may be able to put something together that >makes sense to them. > >It is interesting when thinking about radiated grids-- with >voltage and current nodes extending multiple wavelengths, >to center a draftsman's compass on Pine Gap-- using a map of >Australia. Extend its movable arm out to Perth. Then, note >when you scribe a circle around Pine Gap-- one that intersects >Perth, you also intersect the VLF transciever (that's what it's >called) at Perth, and those also alleged to be located at: >Exmouth, Brisbane, Canberra, Sydney, Melbourne (along the >Mornington Peninsula,... and an area just off Cape Otway There is a defence facility on the Mornington Peninsular, which according to my local street directory contains a quarantine station, and an Officer Cadet School for the army. I have never heard any suggestion that it was other than it is claimed to be. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 15:27:46 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02282; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Kozyrev's work (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 28 Apr 96 22:52:56 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" To: bilb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Kozyrev's work Dear Sirs, Nikolay A.Kozyrev worked here in St-Petersburg, Russia, Pulkovo Astronomical Obseratory. Some sci.school of followers there are here and in Novosibirsk ( Mrs. Dr. Eganova ). Also in Moscow State University there are periodical seminar on investigation of Time Problems mainly on Kozyrev's concept. Note, it is fundamental and very practicable ( applicable ) concept. The books of Kozyrev's papers was published in 1991 after he was died. Compilator of book and Kozyrev's relative is Dr. Math. Lavrenty S. Shikhobalov < lavr@niimm.spb.su > He can answer for you re papers of Kozyrev were published in English. Spectrum of Kozyrev's ideas is very wide. So, ask direct by email what is your interest for discussion. Sincerely, Alexander V. Frolov --- Alexander V. Frolov P.O.Box 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia phone 7-812-2747877 alex@frolov.spb.ru From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 15:34:21 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02939; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg:SAP Tube (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 21:17:50 +1000 (EST) From: Ossie Callanan The Self Accelerating Plasma Tube (SAP Tube) Anyone who has recieved the latest New Energy News newsletter should have also recieved an additional advertisement by Stefan Marinov titled, "MARINOV: ANNUS HORRIBILIS", which accompanied the newsletter and also appeared in the March 28th 1996 issue of Nature magazine. Basically it is an update of his scalar magnetic field theories and devices which appeared on page 299 of the proceedings from the May 1994 Symposium on New Energy. In this paper I would like to bring to your attention one of his devices he calls the SIBERIAN COLIU. Following is a small extract from the advertisement which describes its components in principle. "A cylindrical magnet is cut along one of its axial planes and the one half is turned up-down (the magnetic forces themselves do the rotation). Around this magnet, there is a trough filled with mercury in which the copper ring which can be seen at right swims (the children take salt solution and suspend the ring on threads). After sending a current of some tens of amperes from the battery at left, which is regulated by the rheostat, the ring begins to rotate. That's all!" Circuit: Cylinder magnet in center Copper ring rotates clockwise \ __---__/ _/ __ __ \_ / / | \ \ ---->---->---| | N | S | |--->---->---- | \_ \__|__/ _/ | | \__ __/ | | --- | | | | | | | ----<----<-------| | | |-------<----<---- | | Battery According to his theories, you can do the reverse. Rotate the copper ring clockwise and it will generate power in the same direction of current flow. Yes I said the same direction. Marinov has demonstrated and proved this in his devices. What this means, and as he explains, is that working as a motor or a generator, there is no opposing torque to the direction of rotation and hence the device becomes "Self Accellerating" and as long as you draw power from it, it will power itself. There is one barrier when constructing this as a mechanical device and that is friction. Due to the low torques generated, friction halts the self accellerating process but its seems that Marinov has overcome this and implies that he has a SIBERIAN COLIU working as a PERPETUUM MOBILE and will soon present this at a press conference. It soon comes to mind that if his theories are true and his device is indeed doing what he explains then surely there must be a way to tap this energy in a more efficient way than a crudely inefficient electro mechanical device. I believe I have come up with such a way and device. I have been able to do so by deriving an analogy of Marinov's Scalar Magnetic Theory to the rotation of the Earth. If the Earth were a spherical magnet with the same field properties as that of Marinov's cylinder magnet, and the sun constantly supplied electrons just like that of the battery, then the Earth's ionosphere and crust would act like the copper ring and rotate. If this is so, no wonder that satelite tether was vaporised. It would have been tapping into an unimaginable amount of energy that was keeping the earth in perpetual rotation. You can bet NASA never heard of Marinov's theories. >From this analogy it then becomes easy to imagine an efficient device with no moving parts that may utilise Scalar magnetism to derive free energy and power itself. All that would be required is to replace the copper ring with an ionised gas plasma that may be contained in a sealed tube in the shape of a donut of which the cylinder magnet will then be placed in the hole. Two metal conductors shall be placed at oppossing ends on the outside of the donut tube of which their axis will be at right angles to the cut plane of the cylinder magnet. When a DC current is placed on the electrodes and the gas is ionised, it will become conductive (maybe even superconductive). This will cause the gas to rotate inside its donut tube (according to Marinov's theory). This will inturn generate more current in the same direction of the applied current flow and the device will become self generating and the excess power may be fed to a load. See Diagram Below: Ionising gas in donut tube-"x" \ _______ Donut shaped gas containment Cylinder magnet in centre \__/ x \__ / tube \ _/ x __---__ x \_ Metal Conductor __ / x _/ __ __ \_ x \ Metal conductor electrode electrode \ / x / / | \ \ x \ / ---->----|- | | N | S | | -|---->---- | \ x \_ \__|__/ _/ x / | | \_ x \__ __/ x _/ | | \_ x --- x _/ | | \__ x __/ | | ----- | | Changover | | | | Switch | |---<----<-------| | | |---0/--0----<---| | | | | | | Ionising Current Source | | | | | \_ | ----<----<-----/\/\/\/\----0 \0----<---- Load Changeover Switch As can be seen above, there are no mechanical parts and hence, no friction to over come so even the smallest amount of torque on the gas plasma will soon accellerate to very large amounts as determined by the amount of current the load draws. I believe other successful vacuume tube energy devices of the past must have worked by utilising the same principles. T. Henry Moray was quoted as saying the amount of energy his device produced was determined by the load he placed on it. The more load he connected, the device powered with no problems. This is inherent in the working principle of the above device. If anyone experiments with the above mentioned device, it will be appreciated if the results are forwarded to me via Keelynet or at mathew3@netspace.net.au. All comments, questions and critique welcome... Regards, Ossie Callanan From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 15:34:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA03642; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:29:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Hudson's monoatomic powder X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: binga@zz.com runs a discussion group on Hudson's "white gold." To subscribe, send the word "subscribe" to WhiteGold-request@zz.com ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 23:25:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA28193; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:14:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31838C6B.373C@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The difference between PRINCIPLE and APPLICATION X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Demonstrating the validity of the Newman PRINCIPLE is simple: build a closed loop system that includes his technology, and then measure the results. Thanks to a near infinity of engineering techniques for buffering the various segments of the system, developing this test is not a challenge to anyone who understands the relationship between current, voltage, and resistance. APPLICATIONs, such as the speed at which a saber saw cuts through dense wood, are of interest only after the PRINCIPLE has beem demonstrated. I WANT the PRINCIPLE to be valid... really want Newman to be right... would be delighted to be proven wrong. Other than life after death and peace on earth, free energy is at the top of my list of WANTS. There's nothing personal in my critique of you, Mr. Newman. I truly hope you have accomplished something wonderful. If your concept is valid, however, perhaps the most miraculous aspect is the way you've avoided publicity and riches. Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 23:40:14 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA29586; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mr. Eisenson, My hat's off to you, sir, for being ballsy enough to put half a million bucks on the line in order to try to bring truth to bear on a situation which has been allowed to grow, unchecked, for some time now. I suspect that no one will come forth to claim your offer because the profits to be made from "smoke and mirrors" are the only profits that will ever be made from this P.T. Barnum type scam. There is, of course, the possibility that these people have stumbled upon the use of high voltage to warp the "fabric" of space-time and have accidentally used the fluctuations in ZPE to run their motors at over unity. Not bloody likely. Starship ----------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 23:47:23 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA00772; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9604282248.AA00266@newty.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Thomas Jerome Newton To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Survey Power! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi! My colleagues and I in the UK are wondering if there's anyone out there that may be able to help us. We're currently producing as-built surveys with a revolutionary new system involving robot theodolites with on-board video cameras, and portable computers to store the photographic and geometric data. Needless to say, with all this kit, the power requirements can be pretty heavy, quite literally! Lugging car batteries about is no fun. We have just completed a survey of a new oil and gas exploration rig, and would like to improve our technology as far as possible before embarking on any further projects. Ideally, we need a 12V source that will allow for a good day's work (say, 12+ hrs) and yet still be relatively 'luggable' and easy to maintain. Videometry aside, this is a problem that has always bugged us surveyors, particularly on the new servo-assisted instruments. Surely someone out there must have some views on this. Thanks for your time! Newtz -- _________________________________________________________________________ _____/ __ \ ___/ // / / // )| / __\ \ \ / - thomasjeromenewton - / / // / / / L- -__ l| / \ / / ) \/ \ \ \// / / / /.\/\/. \-'\ / / \/ /\ "/ newty@newty.demon.co.uk \_// / / / \_/| \__/ _/ / " / /\__/ /// / / / ( |_ / / zu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 23:48:34 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA01273; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Charles Choi To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Query : Cold Fusion basics X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: This is something that's been bugging me for some time now : if cold fusion IS nuclear fusion, shouldn't it generate gamma radiation, maybe a few neutrons here and there? All we've ever heard about is anomalous heat radiation; what about other forms of radiation? Sincerely. Quentin Holte. ( aka Charles Choi. ) You are all the Buddha. - Last words of Buddha. If you see the Buddha, kill him. - Zen proverb. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun Apr 28 23:52:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA01980; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mr. Soule: >From what I have seen and read re your association with Newman, your strategy seems to be "O.K. guys, let's milk it for all it's worth for as long as we can, because there are a lot of gullible people out there who will send/give us money if we can keep them interested." ie., Buy a book. Buy attendance to a lecture. Buy anything we say. I believe you are all charlatans, and the worst of you all is newman, who recruited you all into his lair. Starship ---------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:00:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA03333; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman's Conflict X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >4/28/96 > >In Burden Of Proof, I wrote: > >"A Rhetorical Question: > >Since Newman Energy Products is on public notice that there are serious >questions regarding the truthfulness and validity of their claims >regarding their products for sale and since Newman Energy Products >appears to do significant business, is Newman Energy Product's >objectivity clouded by the fact that serious business damage may result >if their claims are proven invalid or untruthful?" > >In STATEMENT AND CHALLENGE, Mr. Newman (aka the TIGER) exhorts that >thousands have found the TRUTH in reading his book. > >Reading his book may be a very enlightening exercise. However, in my >opinion, there is just one small difficuly in this most subtle >advertisement to buy his book. The business conflict that perpetually >clouds scientific objectivity. It cuts staight to the heart of Mr. >Soule's cherished intellectual honesty. > >May I suggest an easy way out of Mr. Newman's impasse, as many others >have done before him. Publish your book on the internet. This will >instantly remove the conflict, help repair any tarnished credibility >and re-establish much needed intellectual honesty. And, the invaluable >information provided to the members of this list will allow them to >discover the TRUTH for themselves. Just as Mr. Newman suggests. > >Since the burden of proof is upon you, Mr. Newman, I have the most >sincere confidence that you will do the right thing, place your book in >the public domain and remove any apparent conflict. > >Thank You, > >RWW ___________________________________________ To Richard Wall: You would appear to be laboring under an "anti-capitalistic mentality." [I suggest you read the "Anti-Capitalistic Mentality" by Ludwig Von Mises.] Joseph Newman does not view his credibility as "tarnished" in any way, shape or form. This is your property. Ditto for his intellectual honesty. The book is available for sale. You can buy it --- you cannot buy it. Quite frankly, RWW, Joseph Newman could care less what you do. Joseph Newman does not "owe" you or anyone else the knowledge contained in the book. If you want it, you can purchase it like any other product. If not, great! He could care less. This technology is proven, operational prototypes exist, and it is going forward. Those who "mooch" want "something for nothing." Since we still live (or so I thought) in a country that believes in Free Enterprise, the book is available like any other product. If you have difficulty with this, Joseph Newman can be reached at (601) 947-7147. If you don't have difficulty with this, great! Best regards, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:00:54 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA02737; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Purchase Order for 1 Newman Motor X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Evan Soule >Director of Information >Newman Energy Products > >Dear Sirs, > >I wish to purchase 1 Newman Motor which can deliver more power than it uses. > >Please advise price and delivery conditions. > >Be advised that said motor's performance will be tested by several Australian >universities and power authorities. > >Failure of said motor to deliver more power than it uses will be grounds >to terminate >the above contract, seek recovery of costs and initiate legal procedings >against >Newman Energy Products and its Directors. (This statement is NOT >agressive, it is >normal business practice, I just wanted to make my position quite clear). > >Please advise of your acceptance of this order. > >Greg Watson >Greg Watson Consulting _________________________________ Greg Watson: Your earlier insults/contentiousness in violation of Rule 1 and Rule 3 of this Forum has spoken for itself. These same Rules forbid me from responding to you as I would like to. Your offer of an "apology" contingent upon "conditions" has also spoken for itself. Simply put, I do not care for your attitude. I believe it would be accurate to write that Joseph Newman also would not care for your attitude. If you have no difficulty with this, great. And if you have difficulty with this, Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:01:46 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA04337; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >I hereby offer (it's all I can afford) to pay to Newman/Soule the sum of >$500k in U. S. currency if the following conditions are met: > >1. The Newman technology must pass tests devised by a team of three >technologists picked by me from the staffs of UCSD, Sciteq, and >Qualcomm. > >2. The tests will be conducted here in San Diego, CA. I will bear the >cost of testing; Newman/Soule will bear the cost of bringing to the >selected site whatever hardware is required to pass the tests. > >3. In the event Newman/Soule passes the tests, upon payment of the >US$500k I will receive a one percent share in the future profits derived >from the technology. > >Henry Eisenson >Introtech >San Diego, CA ___________________________ Reply: Joseph Newman has issued his STATEMENT/CHALLENGE. If you have no difficulty with this, great! And if you have any difficulty with this, Joseph Newman may be reached at (601) 947-7147. Best wishes, Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684 New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:03:45 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA03915; Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 23:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Newman Machine... plans? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >> >Evan Soule wrote: >> Isaac Newton's Principia >> Mathematica was also a privately-published book. > > >It is unreasonable to draw any comparison between Newman and Newton that >goes beyond the similarity of names. ______________________ Reply: This is your opinion. Others would differ with you. [Also, you chose to make an issue of the "privately-published book" --- not me. And within the context of your original statement, a "privately-published book" is a "privately-published book" --- whether by Newton, Newman, or anyone else.] ______________________ > >If Newman's technology had real merit the world would by now have beaten >a path to his door. In this economic climate, after disclosure that's a >near-perfect test. You claim to have disclosed enough to make a >judgement -- but it is you beating the path (and the drum). > >There is a plethora of media, ranging from popular periodicals to >professional journals, which would gladly publish your revolutionary >technology -- assuming only that its function could be demonstrated to >the satisfaction of selected peer reviewers and/or editorial staff. > >So, just do it! > >Henry ______________________ Reply: Your comments above prove to me that you know nothing about the history of this technology over the past 15 years. But thanks Henry, ever-so-much, for the kind words of encouragement! Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:12:16 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA04876; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >--- FORWARDED --- > >< fm: Henry Eisenson > > >I suggest that those who have "faith" in Newman's technology conduct >private dialogs with his spokesman, Evan Soule. They can buy the book, >pay fees to enter the seminars, and make donations or even investments. > >But the rest of us, who have more faith in physics than in rhetoric, >remain interested in new energy sources and should not have that >interest diluted by this neverending story. > --snip--- >the fever abated and I went on with my life. I had a company >to run and a family to raise. > >Anyone interested in resurrecting this? > >Henry Eisenson >Introtech >San Diego ___________________________ Reply: Those who have taken the time to read Joseph Newman's book and "master" the technology have not demonstrated "faith" but curiosity tempered with intellectual honesty. Oh Henry, please let me know about these "seminars with fees" you keep referring to.....I would suggest that your information in this area may be as inaccurate as other possible inaccuracies you may be laboring under. I guess this may be the difference between us: you have "faith" in physics; I have "confidence" in physics; as an astrophysicist once said: "physics is the basis of all knowledge." Best regards, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:13:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA05416; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Hudson's monoatomic powder X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear fellow adventurers; Further to the note on white gold, anyone interested might enjoy the following www.vru.com and click on white gold. Byrun > > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:20:13 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA05966; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604290215.TAA25817@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: STATEMENT AND CHALLENGE X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: 4/28/96 You wrote: snippp >If you think you can prove me wrong --- then meet me in New Orleans. >I will put up $10,000.00 and you will put up $10,000.00 and we will >discuss and explain the Basics of Electromagnetic Engineering and my >Energy Invention to the PUBLIC. And whoever the majority of the >Public says is correct: WALKS AWAY WITH $20,000.00! Surely your joking, Mr. Newman. Let the majority of the Public be the scientific arbiter? Do you really think that Nature really gives a damn about what the Public thinks is true or false. This is very convoluted scientific method. On second thought, maybe the Public has made the decision this past ten years regarding your devices. Sincerely, RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:23:46 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA06526; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604290259.VAA03561@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: faster than light light X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > > construct a "machine", such that at its center there is a rotating > shaft off of which we reflect a light beam 90 degrees so that the beam > will "scribe" a line of light around a inner circumference of a circle > of some (large) diameter. now increase the speed of the shaft so that > the angular velocity of the light beam is > c at the interface "point" > with the circle. > > question: > > what is observed (or happens) as that reflected light "vector" > approaches, and then exceeds the speed of light? simple frequency > shift? something more complex? nothing at all? any difference > between coherent and incoherent light? ... > > > many thanks for any considerations, > > steve > meyersr@norand.com This is called "phase velocity" or "group velocity" and is not in fact the velocity of the particle/wave. A similar occurrence takes place in waveguides near cutoff. Nothing unusual would happen. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 00:23:48 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA06946; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: ascot@mailhost.world.net To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: RE: pathological skepticism X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Bill, Sadly your pathological skepticism list rings stangely fimiliar in a number of fields other than science. The saddest part is that it applies to virtually every corner of human development. Wherever you find people competing for, money, prestige, accolades etc etc you'll find the list applicable. This is especially true of Corporate Politics of which I know more than the average boo boo. Regards, Ascot :( From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 04:09:41 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA16993; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 03:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 03:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604291035.FAA27814@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Misc X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I posted a question about the Kromrey generator recently but it may have gotten lost in the problems with the server. Does anyone out there besides John Bedini have any experience with the Kromrey device? Do any of you know how to make it work? Also, I received a nice packet of info the other day from Entropy Systems, Inc via smail (Sanjay Amin ... someone on this discussion group?) about the Amin cycle engine. I have never heard of it before but it fascinates me. Has anyone heard of this? Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 06:16:18 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA06589; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 05:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 05:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604291425.OAA14118@agora.stm.it> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Kozyrev's work? (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear list members, > >Is anyone familiar with M. Kozyrev's work? Below are questions about >Kozyrev that a good friend of mine forwarded. > >I'd appreciate any help or reference. > >Regards, Dave Cruz {Speaking for myself} There will be a scientific conference in June this year in St. Petersburg in Russia, and one of the lectures is about the work of Kozyrev. The following is an abstract of the lecture: 2. Shahparonov I.M., Member of Academy for Energy and Informational Sciences, Pestchanniy per. 20 -1, kv.33, 125252, Moscow, Russia, Tel: 7-095-1982012. Information: "The powerful generator for Kozyrev-Dirak radiation" Will reported about creation of powerful (in 10^9 times more intensive than power used in Kozyrev's experiments) generator of Kozyrev-Dirak radiation. The schematical description of device will reported. On the base of hypothesis about magnetic-monopolar nature of radiation the conclusion is proposed for some methods for detecting of it. Report: "The influence of Kozyrev-Dirak radiation on matter" In the strength of the small intensity of flow of radiation in experiments of Kozyrev his interaction with matter was demonstrated in changes of value of electroconductivity for measuring resistor. In the case of great flow of Kozyrev-Dirak radiation the matter have the structure changes both in molecular and in atom level. Following interaction with magnetic field ( effect named NNM ) on the changed matter structure lead to long keeping of the magnetized state. There are examples for magnetizing of plumbago, diamonds, organical materials. Report: " The generation of scalar type gravitational waves by means of oscillating Kozyrev-Dirak beam. For the first time will reported the information about interaction of photons beam with beam of magnetic monopolies of Kozyrev-Dirak radiation. Experimentally demonstrated that laboratory source of Kozyrev-Dirak radiation can create fixed gravitation field that is equal to mass 10^32 gram, and forced oscillations of the Kozyrev-Dirak radiation beam can create the scalar type gravitational wave. Is planned the demonstration of device and video on experiments, sale of plumbage that is magnetized in new type waves. If you want more information on the conference or want to attend e-mail the poster of this message or Alexander V. Frolov Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger Rampa Brancaleone 25, 00165 Rome, Italy j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 06:40:07 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA21766; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 06:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 06:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604291324.IAA07698@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Kozyrev's work? (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >>Is anyone familiar with M. Kozyrev's work? Below are questions about >>Kozyrev that a good friend of mine forwarded. >> >>I'd appreciate any help or reference. >> >>Regards, Dave Cruz {Speaking for myself} > >There will be a scientific conference in June this year in St. Petersburg >in Russia, and one of the lectures is about the work of Kozyrev. The >following is an abstract of the lecture: > [snip] > >Regards - Josef > >Josef Hasslberger I am unfortunately unable to attend this conference, but I have been looking for some of Kozyrev's papers for several years now. I found a couple in journals in the University of Illinois Library but they were in Russian (which I don't speak or read yet.) Information on his work seems to be very scarce in the Western world. It may be a worthwhile project for someone who can translate Russian into English to prepare some of these works in English and make them available as a book, or supply them at a WWW site. I think many of us would like to see them! Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From 76216.2421@CompuServe.COM Mon Apr 29 21:00:42 1996 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com (dub-img-2.compuserve.com [198.4.9.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA21776 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 21:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA20256; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 00:00:03 -0400 Date: 29 Apr 96 23:58:33 EDT From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> To: William Beaty Subject: Patho-skept crosspost? Message-ID: <960430035833_76216.2421_HHB76-1@CompuServe.COM> Status: RO X-Status: A Bill - Excellent piece about the pathological skepticism. May I crosspost it to the Encounters forum on Compuserve? Thanks, - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:04:35 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA02698; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 21:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 21:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Beyond Newman... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --- FORWARDED --- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:09:10 -0500 (EST) From: bkbirge@indyunix.iupui.edu Subject: Re: fnrg: Beyond Newman... (fwd) I applaud your interest in moving past the Newman Motor discussion. I have been shadowing the group for a few weeks and was about to cancel when I ran across your post on NMR. I have just graduated with a B.S. in EE and Physics from Purdue where I have been working in the solid state NMR lab. My involvement has been mostly engineering (I fabricated a speed controller for MAS experiments) but I have often wondered what else NMR could be used for. We study the 3D structure of polypeptides of biological significance (hopefully). I would certainly be interested in exploring this idea with you. The brief outline you gave sparked my interest. -- Brian Birge From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:08:30 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA03312; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Nikolaev Self-Accelerating Motor/Generator (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 07:26:06 +0400 From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Subject: Re: Nikolaev Self-Accelerating Motor/Generator Note: Marinov made very small note about first scientist who made experiments on longitudinal forces and demonstrated it for Marinov several years ago. His name Gennagy Nikolaev, Tomsk, Siberia. Marinov wrote that he named his device as SIBERIAN COLIU. But G.Nikolaev was not happy to know it since this name is not correct. Normal practice is: if one use well-known (in Russia Nikolaev's work was known before Marinov visit him) research work result the name of experiment must have the reference on author. So, surname "Nikolaev" must be used instead of too familiar "COLIU" "Nikolaev Motor/Generator" will take his place in perpetuum mobile history like Moray generator, Tesla coil and so on. I saw Marinov in 1994 here in St.-Petersburg and we had talk. Martinov is greate inventor/enthusiast and his activity is positive sure. There are only one small and important aspect: priority and history. Sincerely, --- Alexander V. Frolov P.O.Box 37, 193024, St.-Petersburg, Russia phone 7-812-2747877 alex@frolov.spb.ru From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:10:03 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA03946; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: faster than light light X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 00:12:35 -0700 (PDT) From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: faster than light light > > > construct a "machine", such that at its center there is a rotating > shaft off of which we reflect a light beam 90 degrees so that the beam > will "scribe" a line of light around a inner circumference of a circle > of some (large) diameter. now increase the speed of the shaft so that > the angular velocity of the light beam is > c at the interface "point" > with the circle. > > question: > > what is observed (or happens) as that reflected light "vector" > approaches, and then exceeds the speed of light? simple frequency > shift? something more complex? nothing at all? any difference > between coherent and incoherent light? ... > > > many thanks for any considerations, > > steve > meyersr@norand.com This is called "phase velocity" or "group velocity" and is not in fact the velocity of the particle/wave. A similar occurrence takes place in waveguides near cutoff. Nothing unusual would happen. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:14:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA04590; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31849581.46C1@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Hudson's monoatomic powder X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Mr. Fox: You claim the ability to achieve room-temperature superconductivity using Hudson's monoatomic material. Therefore, I shall extend my offer made to Messrs Newman and Soule, with the same terms and conditions. That is, after you have demonstrated room-temperature superconductivity before qualified witnesses and in accordance with reasonable scientific protocols. I will very gladly pay the $500k to your group, requiring in exchange only one percentum of the proceeds from the discovery. But you must hurry! I cannot generate enough funds to pay BOTH you and Newman, and I'm certain they're packing their bags as I write this, so it's first come, first served! Henry Eisenson Introtech San Diego, CA From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:19:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA05090; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31849969.7F2D@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A Evan Soule wrote: > Joseph Newman has issued his STATEMENT/CHALLENGE. When faced with a definitive challenge, one either accepts or refuses --- there is no negotiation. If Mr. Newman accepts, then a formal protocol and standards will be produced by a panel of experts from local (San Diego) universities and laboratories --- and neither Mr. Newman nor I will be on that panel. My offer was real. I actually can produce the funds. I would gladly do so if the Newman motor "works" and I acquire a one percent ownership of its future profits. However, you should know that I have just made the same offer to a party who claims to have achieved room-temperature superconductivity. In the event BOTH parties are successful, the SECOND one to succeed will have to await proceeds from the first relationship before I can find a second $500k. To protect the future financial integrity of my family and business, and to share the wealth that will inevitably result from success, I do offer shares in these ventures to anyone who underwrites my exposure --- in blocks of $50k, with each block representing one-eleventh of the total. Of course, this offer cannot extend in perpetuum. Since both of the challengees say their technologies have already worked, I require agreement within 30 days, and demonstration within 60. Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:22:54 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA05702; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604291730.KAA07933@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Burden of Proof (was . . . Proof in Pudding) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: 4/29/96 In Burden of Proof I wrote: "Oh, yes. Since Newman Energy Products is in significant business for profit, I have a few questions that this group may be interested in as a whole. These are simple questions that are in general matters for the public record. Just business questions, nothing personal. 1. What is the business structure of Newman Energy Products? Is it a sole proprietorship? Partnership? Limited Partnership? Corporation? Just what form does it take? 2. Is Newman Energy Products registered or incorporated in the state of Louisiana or any other state or country? If so, Where? 3. Does Newman Energy Products offer products for sale as noted above? Does Newman Energy Products promote and make sale to investors? Has it done so in the past? Has Newman Energy Products sold products and sold to investors in Louisiana, or other states and countries? If so, where? 4. Is Newman Energy Products registered with the SEC or any other government regulatory agency? If so, which ones? A Rhetorical Question: Since Newman Energy Products is on public notice that there are serious questions regarding the truthfulness and validity of their claims regarding their products for sale and since Newman Energy Products appears to do significant business, is Newman Energy Product's objectivity clouded by the fact that serious business damage may result if their claims are proven invalid or untruthful?" These simple business questions have not been addressed much less answered. I point out again that these are matters of public record and not personal in any way. Most states require legitimate businesses to provide this information. I'm sure the Secretaries of State and Attorneys General of both Mississippi and Louisianna along with the SEC would be most interested in assisting you in providing this information. As Mr. Watson correctly pointed out, you are operating a business. This is not a game. I respectfully request, a second time, that you provide the information requested above. Sincerely, RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:26:15 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA06837; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Mr. Soule: >>From what I have seen and read re your association with Newman, your >strategy seems to be "O.K. guys, let's milk it for all it's worth for >as long as we can, because there are a lot of gullible people out there >who will send/give us money if we can keep them interested." > >ie., > >Buy a book. >Buy attendance to a lecture. >Buy anything we say. > >I believe you are all charlatans, and the worst of you all is newman, who >recruited you all into his lair. > John Fields >---------- **************************************** REPLY to the other members of this Forum and Host: Once again, John Fields has seen fit to issue insulting, contentious words in violation of Rule One of this Forum. I call upon our Host to notify John Fields that he has violated Rule One of this Forum. Quite frankly, it is with some degree of will power that I do not PUBLICLY present on this Forum a wide variety of explicit and challenging anatomical and biological suggestions for Mr. John Fields to undertake. But in accordance with Rule Three of this Forum, I will "bite my keyboard" and not tell the above insulting writer precisely what I think of him and his insulting comments. Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 **************************************** From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:26:41 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA06221; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The difference between PRINCIPLE and APPLICATION X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Demonstrating the validity of the Newman PRINCIPLE is simple: build a >closed loop system that includes his technology, and then measure the __________________________ Reply: It would appear as though you just don't understand the technology. New idea: Read Joseph Newman's book and read about the technology in the words of the innovator. If you choose not to read the book, great! And if you choose to read the book, then you can understand the technology for yourself. Evan Soule __________________________ >results. Thanks to a near infinity of engineering techniques for >buffering the various segments of the system, developing this test is >not a challenge to anyone who understands the relationship between >current, voltage, and resistance. > >APPLICATIONs, such as the speed at which a saber saw cuts through dense >wood, are of interest only after the PRINCIPLE has beem demonstrated. __________________________ Reply: Ah, but the principle is fully demonstration to Joseph Newman's satisfaction. Not to mention the satisfaction of many others. It is you who is not satisfied. Solution: see Reply above. Evan Soule __________________________ > >I WANT the PRINCIPLE to be valid... really want Newman to be right... >would be delighted to be proven wrong. Other than life after death and >peace on earth, free energy is at the top of my list of WANTS. __________________________ Reply: Joseph Newman is really not interested in proving you wrong. It is simply his position that he has a technology which is right. Evan Soule __________________________ > >There's nothing personal in my critique of you, Mr. Newman. I truly hope >you have accomplished something wonderful. If your concept is valid, >however, perhaps the most miraculous aspect is the way you've avoided >publicity and riches. > __________________________ Reply: When one is aware of the full 30-year history of the supression of this technology, one does not find it "miraculous" at all. Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:30:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA07324; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: STATEMENT AND CHALLENGE X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >4/28/96 > >You wrote: > > snippp > >Surely your joking, Mr. Newman. Let the majority of the Public be the >scientific arbiter? Do you really think that Nature really gives a >damn about what the Public thinks is true or false. This is very >convoluted scientific method. > >On second thought, maybe the Public has made the decision this past ten >years regarding your devices. > >Sincerely, > >RWW ____________________________________ REPLY: No, Joseph Newman is QUITE SERIOUS. It is Joseph Newman's position that the Public would be far more competent a Judge than you, for instance. And if you doubt the seriousness of Joseph Newman, he may be reached at (601) 947-7147. One who speaks with him will find out just how serious he is. Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 _____________________________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:33:28 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA07808; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >John Fields: >I suspect that no one will come forth to claim your offer because the >profits to be made from "smoke and mirrors" are the only profits that >will ever be made from this P.T. Barnum type scam. ****************************************************** REPLY: Note to our Host: I do not appreciate John Fields description of the life work of Joseph Newman as a "P.T. Barnum type scam." This is an insult to the innovative work of Joseph Newman and I believe that John Fields owes Joseph Newman an apology since with such insulting and contentious words John Fields has violated Rule One of this Forum. Because I will endeavor to respond within the guidelines set by the Host of this Forum, I will not violate Rule One or Rule Three of this Forum. PRIVATELY, however, I would have VERY SPECIAL WORDS for John Fields that MOST ASSUREDLY ****would**** violate Rules One and Three of this Forum. Evan Soule ****************************************************** >John Fields: >There is, of course, the possibility that these people have stumbled >upon the use of high voltage to warp the "fabric" of space-time and >have accidentally used the fluctuations in ZPE to run their motors >at over unity. > >Not bloody likely. > Starship ****************************************************** REPLY: The only thing bloody likely is....... The rest of the comments are deleted since they would violate Rule Three of this Forum. I will endeavor to publicly issue my comments on this Forum within the guidelines of Rule One and Rule Three despite the fact that others are incapable of so behaving. Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:37:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA08501; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604292003.NAA29779@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >as an astrophysicist once said: "physics is >the basis of all knowledge." > >Best regards, > >Evan Soule >josephnewman@earthlink.net >(504) 524-3063 > >Joseph Newman can be reached at: >(601) 947-7147 >Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 >______________________ > > > > said astrophysicist needs to spend a little time with Plato, Aristotle, Lao-tzu, Siddharta, and Socrates. They will staighten up his brain and give him much better depth about the role of perception, definition, logic, and concept in forming the basis of all that is knowable. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:43:45 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA09231; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318535CF.50B1@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Hasting's Report, Further Observations X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > --- FORWARDED --- > fm: GREG WATSON > > To : > Evan Soule, > Director of Information, > Newman Energy Products. > > ON 20/3/96 YOU POSTED THE FOLLOWING : > > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 09:55:41 -0800 > X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) > Subject: PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS OF ONE NEWMAN MOTOR > > PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS OF ONE NEWMAN MOTOR > > SNIP > > C. Battery Lifetime Tests > > It has become apparent that the batteries powering the Newman motor outlive > the expectations of the manufacturer. In this test, 124 old alkaline > batteries were used to power the (90 lb. rotor) motor. The batteries read > 2/3 of their fresh voltage value at the outset of the experiment. It was > found that the 90 lb cylindrical rotor is spun up to 6 Hz. in 21 sec. when > the batteries are connected to the motor. The voltage drops from 125 V. to > 70 V. when the batteries are connected, and remains at 70 V. when the rotor > runs at speed. The minimum power supplied by the batteries is therefore > equal to the power required to spin up the rotor. > > This is: > > P equals one-half I W(squared) /t > > where > > t equals time to spin up rotor equals 21 sec. > > W equals angular speed equals 2 X =BD X 6 Hz. > > R[squared] L[squared] > I equals M ( ------- plus ------- ) > 4 12 > > M equals rotor mass equals 41 kg. > > R equals rotor radius (apr.) equals .08m. > > L equals rotor length (apr.) equals .31m. > > This yields a minimum energy required to keep the rotor spinning at 6 Hz. > of 13 Watts. Therefore the batteries must be supplying at least 13/70 > equals 190 m amps. As a separate estimate it was found that a constant > drain of 300 m amps. through a resistor drops the battery voltage from 125 > V to 70 V. Consulting the battery charts we find that a fresh battery with > a starting drain of 150 m amps. (100 m amps. when V equals 2/3 starting > voltage) will drop from 2/3 to 1/2 of its starting voltage in a few hours. > If the batteries began at 2/3 of their fresh voltage under a drain of 250 m > amps. they would be very dead in two hours. > > SNIP > > HERE DR. HASTINGS? HAS USED AN INCORRRECT PROCEDURE TO CALCULATE THE RUNNING > LOSSES ON A 90LB ROTOR AS 13 WATTS. THE CALCULATION REPRESENTS THE ENERGY > NECESSARY TO ACCELERATE THE ROTOR TO SPEED. IT DOES NOT REPRESENT THE > RUNNING LOSSES AS STATED. > > ON 18/4/96 YOU POSTED THE FOLLOWING : > > Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 08:27:27 -0700 (PDT) > From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) > Subject: The Proof is in the "Pudding" > > SNIP > > Coil weight : 9000 lbs. > Coil length : 55 miles of copper wire > Coil Inductance: 1,100 Henries measured by observing the current > rise time when a D.C. voltage was applied. > Coil resistance: 770 Ohms > Coil Height : about 4 ft. > Coil Diameter : slightly over 4 ft. I.D. > > Magnet weight : 700 lbs. > Magnet Radius : 2 feet > Magnet geometry: cylinder rotating about its perpendicular axis > Magnet Moment of Inertia: 40 kg-sq.m. (M.K.S.) computed as one > third mass times radius squared > > Battery Voltage: 590 volts under load > Battery Type : Six volt Ray-O-Vac lantern batteries connected > in series > > SNIP > > Mechanical losses in the rotor were measured as follows: The rotor was > spun up by hand with the coil open circuited. An inductive pick-up loop > was attached to a chart recorder to measure the rate of decay of the rotor. > The energy stored in the rotor (one half the moment of inertia times the > square of the angular velocity) was plotted as a function of time. The > slope of this curve was measured at various times and gave the power loss > in the rotor as a function of rotor speed. The result of these > measurements is given in the following table: > > Rotor Speed Power Dissipation Power/(Speed Squared) > radian/sec watts watts/(rad/sec)^2 > 4.0 6.3 0.39 > 3.7 5.8 0.42 > 3.3 5.0 0.46 > 3.0 3.5 0.39 > 2.1 2.0 0.45 > 1.7 1.2 0.42 > 1.2 0.7 0.47 > > The data is consistent with power loss proportional to the square of the > angular speed, as would be expected at low speeds. When the rotor moves > fast enough so that air resistance is important, the losses would begin to > increase as the cube of the angular speed. Using power = 0.43 times the > square of the angular speed will give a lower bound on mechanical power > dissipation at all speeds. When the rotor is moving at 12 rpm, or 1.3 > rad/sec, the mechanical loss is 0.7 watts. > > SNIP > > HERE DR. HASTINGS HAS USED A VALID PROCEDURE TO MEASURE RUNNING LOSSES > ON A 700LB ROTOR AS 0.7 WATTS. > > MY QUESTION IS AS FOLLOWS : > > WHY IN THE FIRST EXAMPLE HAS DR. HASTING? MADE AN INCORRECT CALCULATION AND > IN THE SECOND A CORRECT CALCULATION? > > THE FIRST EXAMPLE IS BEING USED TO CLAIM/SHOW HIGHER THAN EXPECTED BATTERY > LIFE (EFFICIENCY), SECOND IS JUST A OBSERVATION. IS THIS WHY? > > MR. SOULE AS DIRECTOR OF INFORMATION FOR NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS CAN YOU > EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENCES? > > GREG WATSON Have just reread both of the above reports and find further differences. The writing sytle is different, in the second report Dr. Hstings sets out each test as What he is trying to measure, then How is did the measurements, then the Results. In the first report this is not done. I also note that Dr. Hasting uses RPM or Rads/Sec to refer to rotational speed in the second report which is to be expected, but in the first report he uses HZ to refer to rotational speed. While HZ could refer to rotational speed, it normally is used to refer to cycles/sec in electrical work. I also note in many reports from Evan Soule, the fact that he uses HZ to refer to rotational speed. These differences in the two reports, both signed by Dr. Hastings, leads one to wonder at the authenticity of the first report. I also note Newman Energy Products has rejected my offer to purchase 1 Newman motor. Are the only items for sale books and video tapes or do you have to be a TRUE BELIEVER. Does the Newman Motor and its Gyrons only work if you truely believe and don't ask questions. I have just completed a search for gyrons. I constructed a coil measuring 100mm in diameter and 100mm in length. I then wound 270m of 0.2mm wire. This coil was then driven by a PC type switchmode power supply, which I modified to run at 100-800KHZ. The resulting output drove 500Ns pulses of current into the coil. Every other pulse was reversed in direction. As electrical energy travels approx 300mm in 1Ns, the transit time through the coil would be approx 900Ns. I also varied the Dead Time (time between pulses) from 100-1000Ns. I tested the coil at voltages from 5 to 300 Vdc. I observed both current and voltage waveforms and only observed conventional results. If there is any interest I can post some Jpgs of the test setup and waveforms observed. Greg Watson Greg Watson Consulting From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:45:03 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA09933; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604292326.TAA26754@dns.enter.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "David Rosignoli" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Scalar Gradiometer Meters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > RWW says: meters still available > > I recently constructed the scalar gradiometer posted on Bill Beaty's > web. The most difficult part to obtain was the 2.5-0-2.5 ma null > meter. Recently, I had the good fortune at a Navy surplus auction to > obtain about twenty 250-0-250 microamp null meters. They are military > spec and rugged. They have precision d'Arsonal movements. The > resistor connected to the meter in the gradiometer has to be increased > a bit, but other than that they work great. > > I offer them free of charge to all list members who wish to build the > gradiometer or any other device. A buck or so for shipping would be > nice. I would be interested in obtaining such a meter. How much for shipping and where to send it? David Rosignoli From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon Apr 29 22:51:16 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA10998; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 22:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604300157.DAA02544@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Overunity site updated X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I have updated my overunity WEB site. There are now the first parts ofthe Newman pages. I also rearranged the Takahashi page. http://www.overunity.de Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From ddd.snafu.de!harti@desert.snafu.de Tue Apr 30 04:04:07 1996 Received: from unlisys.unlisys.NET (unlisys.unlisys.net [194.64.15.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA04863 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by unlisys.unlisys.NET from desert.snafu.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 [@@]) id m0uEDDk-000ZzZC; Tue, 30 Apr 96 13:03 MET DST Received: from ddd.snafu.de by desert.snafu.de with UUCP (Smail3.1.29.1 #18) id m0uEEeM-00081TC; Tue, 30 Apr 96 12:35 GMT Received: by ddd.snafu.de (CrossPoint v3.02 R/A2148); 30 Apr 1996 12:08:24 +0100 Date: 30 Apr 1996 12:06:00 +0100 From: harti@ddd.snafu.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: bilb@eskimo.com Message-ID: <67sJEOHeldB@ddd.snafu.de> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: F/E in Munchen DE? (fwd) X-Mailer: XP v3.02 R/A2148 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:19:14 -0700 (PDT) >From: Stefan Hartmann >Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: F/E in Munchen DE? > >> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:08:01 +0100 >>From: Nikolai Korschun >>To: billb@eskimo.com >>Subject: Anti-Gravity Device, Free eng. Mach. >> >>Dear Bill Beaty >> >>Do you know about any activities in free energy and related topics >>around my living area in Munich/Bavaria/Germany? >> >>Thanks a lot for any reply. >> >>Yours >> >>N.Korschunow >> > >There are some guys in Munich I know of. > >I will look for the address and forward it. > >Regards, Stefan. > There is a group called PSITRON. These are 3 people who have designed an N-Machien, which was only about 90 to 100 % efficient, but have spent arounf 75.000 US$ on it. They have disproved the N-machine. N-machines don't get overunity. It seems that all the work of Bruce de Palma was faulty. He always only measured the incremental efficiency.... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de or harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti _Check out our INTERNET MPEG CD-ROM ! Visit the WEB site !_ Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 07:40:58 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA03102; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: campbellcc@www.hendrix.edu (VALIS) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman, and Evan Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I have been on the list now for about six months. I originally joined the list because I was very intrested in the future of 'free-energy'. The concepts and experiements of those involved intrested me very much, and I was pleased to still be involved in hearing about it even though I am not able to experiment. However of late I have not been able to get through the days mail without my blood tempature going though the roof. I don't speak for anyone but my self, and if this is inapproiate for the list then I invite William Beaty to _please_ e-mail me and tell me I'm in the wrong. Evan, this list is made up of people who want to support you, and see Newman's work succeed. And yet you treat us all like enemies. Every time for week's now I check my mail I find you accusing list memebers of 'breaking rules 1 and 3' and every time someone askes you a question you respond by saying 'read newman's book' and saying that anyone who askes you for proof is insulting you. I only wish to draw your attention to three things. I could find justification for claming you broke all 6 rules of the list. From your sending long messages, (rule 4) to flaming (any of your responses to expected responses to any claims, rule 1&3), and even the selling of your, I mean, Newmans book (rule 6). PLEASE, I _know_ you didn't intend to break any of them, and Neither does anyone else. We're here to make free-energy, over-unity a reality for everyone. We want this as badly as everyone one else. Could you imagine how wonderful life would be if energy were unlimited. I'm sure you can. If I had a working over-unity device, I would take it to every testing site/college/physicist in the country trying to prove it didn't work. Because if it stands up to all that, then it must have some validility. I think they invented something like this a long time ago, It was called the scientific method. Just remember the fact that your responded saying, "You broke rules one and three of the list", breaks rules one and three of the list. Please help us make this a reality, and remember who your friends and supporters are supposed to be. If any of this is out of line I invite William Beaty to email me and tell me so. If so I will gladly unsubscribe. If you have a response, Evan Soule I would appreaceate a personal message so the list remains uncluttered. Thank you for your time all, and I apoligize for the inconvience. Courtney C. Campbell Campbellcc@gamma.hendrix.edu From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 08:05:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA07997; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318558A0.1E9@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Control of nuclear orientation in cold fusion.... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Brian Birge expressed interest in the concept of using nuclear magnetic resonance to equisitely control the orientation of nuclei in cold fusion experiments, and said: > B.S. in EE and Physics from Purdue Great! That puts you well beyond the average here... > what else NMR could be used for. Quality control in wine production Semen analysis Real-time process control in pharmaceutical production Micro-imaging (of individual particles and crystal lattices) Macro-imaging (medical --- oh, yes. We've done that!) Tagging of explosives ..those are realities. The possibility, however, of marrying NMR with cold fusion is only intriguing to me --- please understand, though the fundamental question came from me, the math came from someone far more skilled than I am. To proceed, we need someone who has spent serious time looking at the cold fusion data to date. Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 08:39:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11838; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318559BB.4B3E@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > it is with some degree of will power that I do not PUBLICLY > present on this Forum a wide variety of explicit and challenging anatomical > and biological suggestions for Mr. John Fields to undertake. We all appreciate Mr. Soule's gentility. I, for one, think it's likelier that Mr. Fields could actually perform your anatomical script than Mr. Newman could prove the validity of his "invention." Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 08:50:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA14990; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31855B31.1C2E@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The difference between PRINCIPLE and APPLICATION X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > When one is aware of the full 30-year history of the supression of this > technology Does this mean that Newman's machine works, but a conspiracy of the Trilateral Committee, Exxon, the Libertarians, and Chrysler has successfully prevented Mr. Newman from fame and fortune? Please, Mr. Soule. If communication skill is evidence of intelligence (and most psychometrists think it is), you're a bright man. When I telephoned you today, it was with the full expectation that you would admit that this is all a put-on, a gag, a prank, etc. I hoped we could share some ideas for throwing gasoline on the fire and having even more fun. But you were SERIOUS! So how can a serious and bright man expect me to believe there's been 30 years of suppression of Newman's work? Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 09:23:30 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA22573; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604300851.BAA19167@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Newman Threads X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Free Energy: Concerning Newman, I started out this chain of posts making summary judgements which were most unsupported and unkind, thinking that this was a fairly private listserv, but to my chagrin, my post was relayed to Evan Soule, who responded most aggressively. I made my peace with Evan Soule and he has interacted with quite a few people through Free Energy. The resulting exchange has been most informative. In my opinion, the facts have asserted themselves quite well. I can understand the strong judgmental reactions to Newman, but we do not need any more posts along those lines. On Newman, I think the score to the present moment is clear. So far, Newman has flunked Free Energy 101. That is to say, I believe that the majority of those who have followed the issue through Free Energy are disinclined to believe the claims. Let's leave it at that and get onto other stuff. The only exception I am interested in is Henry Eisenson's 500K challenge. Talk about the rubber hitting the road!!! That's a challenge which, win, lose, or ignore it, definitively defines what's what. My prediction: conversations concerning the conditions and qualifiers will drag out for months and months and months...which will also say a lot, not that we need it at this point. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 09:58:26 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA27585; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Henry Eisenson wrote: > My offer was real. I actually can produce the funds. I would gladly do > so if the Newman motor "works" and I acquire a one percent ownership of > its future profits. ^^^^^^^^^ A question relevant to Mr. Newman's troubles: if patents are refused, what other methods are available for "owning" his invention? Or do you expect that the publicity arising from positive test results would cause a shakeout at USPTO and get Newman's device accepted? Testing by scientists will possibly run afoul of the same scientist- psychology that Cold Fusion did: if the scientists minds are closed to the possibility that the effect is real, then positive test results will always be taken as an indication that the tests are flawed, and that further testing is needed. Either this, or some convenient flaw will work its way into the testing, the results will turn out negative, and the negative results will be hotly defended by those with closed minds. Is there a way out of this? Hand pick your panel of judges to eliminate Pathological Skeptics? ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 10:04:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA29899; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604301242.FAA20256@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Scalar Gradiometer Meters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: You wrote: > > >> RWW says: meters still available >> >> I recently constructed the scalar gradiometer posted on Bill Beaty's >> web. The most difficult part to obtain was the 2.5-0-2.5 ma null >> meter. Recently, I had the good fortune at a Navy surplus auction to >> obtain about twenty 250-0-250 microamp null meters. They are military >> spec and rugged. They have precision d'Arsonal movements. The >> resistor connected to the meter in the gradiometer has to be increased >> a bit, but other than that they work great. >> >> I offer them free of charge to all list members who wish to build the >> gradiometer or any other device. A buck or so for shipping would be >> nice. > > >I would be interested in obtaining such a meter. >How much for shipping and where to send it? > >David Rosignoli > 4/30/96 Dave, Post me your address. RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 10:22:06 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA03160; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Burden of Proof (was . . . Proof in Pudding) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >4/29/96 > >In Burden of Proof I wrote: > >"Oh, yes. Since Newman Energy Products is in significant business for >profit, I have a few questions that this group may be interested in as >a whole. These are simple questions that are in general matters for >the public record. Just business questions, nothing personal. > >1. What is the business structure of Newman Energy Products? Is it a >sole proprietorship? Partnership? Limited Partnership? Corporation? >Just what form does it take? > >2. Is Newman Energy Products registered or incorporated in the state >of Louisiana or any other state or country? If so, Where? > >3. Does Newman Energy Products offer products for sale as noted above? >Does Newman Energy Products promote and make sale to investors? Has it >done so in the past? Has Newman Energy Products sold products and sold >to investors in Louisiana, or other states and countries? If so, >where? > >4. Is Newman Energy Products registered with the SEC or any other >government regulatory agency? If so, which ones? > > >A Rhetorical Question: > >Since Newman Energy Products is on public notice that there are serious >questions regarding the truthfulness and validity of their claims >regarding their products for sale and since Newman Energy Products >appears to do significant business, is Newman Energy Product's >objectivity clouded by the fact that serious business damage may result >if their claims are proven invalid or untruthful?" > > >These simple business questions have not been addressed much less >answered. I point out again that these are matters of public record >and not personal in any way. Most states require legitimate businesses >to provide this information. I'm sure the Secretaries of State and >Attorneys General of both Mississippi and Louisianna along with the SEC >would be most interested in assisting you in providing this >information. As Mr. Watson correctly pointed out, you are operating a >business. This is not a game. > >I respectfully request, a second time, that you provide the information >requested above. > >Sincerely, > >RWW _____________________________________ Dear RWW: Thank you for your polite questions. You should address your simple business questions directly to Joseph Newman. He may be reached at (601) 947-7147, Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452. Sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 10:24:06 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA03729; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>as an astrophysicist once said: "physics is >>the basis of all knowledge." >> >>Best regards, >> >>Evan Soule >>josephnewman@earthlink.net >>(504) 524-3063 >> >>Joseph Newman can be reached at: >>(601) 947-7147 >>Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 >>______________________ >> >> >> >> >said astrophysicist needs to spend a little time with Plato, Aristotle, >Lao-tzu, Siddharta, and Socrates. They will staighten up his brain and give >him much better depth about the role of perception, definition, logic, and >concept in forming the basis of all that is knowable. >____________________________________ >Michael Mandeville, publisher Reply: His is not the "brain that needs straightening." What you have described are inherent in the Scientific Method which is an essential tool of physics. Of course, with respect to the Scientific Method, I would prefer the Archimedean approach rather than the Aristotelian. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 To reach Joseph Newman: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 10:39:24 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04778; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Hasting's Report, Further Observations X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >I also note Newman Energy Products has rejected my offer to purchase 1 >Newman motor. >Are the only items for sale books and video tapes or do you have to be a TRUE >BELIEVER. Does the Newman Motor and its Gyrons only work if you truely >believe and >don't ask questions. > > >Greg Watson >Greg Watson Consulting ___________________________________________ Reply: Greg Watson's insulting (apology-with-condition) attitude speaks for itself. His attitude is the reason for the rejection of any communication with him. His lack of understanding of Joseph Newman's technical process also speaks for itself. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 To reach Joseph Newman: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 10:42:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06039; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604301338.PAA03677@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: experimenting X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 01:03:23 +0200 >From: Tommy Andersson >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: experimenting > >Is the anybody who have done any experimenting with the Fogal semiconductor? >If you look at the patent ( 5,430,413 ) you can use ordinary parts. >I have a sugestion for a self osilating osilator who uses >two Fogal semiconductors to amplify and get signal phase right. >It's a gif file (12kb) and I will send it to anyone intrested. > >------- >Tommy Andersson >tommy.andersson@mbox2.swipnet.se >------- > Please sned me the GIF file. I will put it onto my WEB server, if it is okay with you... http://www.overunity.de Regards, Stefan. > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 10:44:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA07452; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604301338.PAA03686@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: A $10,000 conversation with Joseph Newman? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Hopefully we will reach a mutual agreement, and resolve any questions raised >by my initial testing that appears to show conventional behaviors alone for >all coils tested. > >If anyone else has the ability to verify if the current increases just as >conventional theory predicts, and that the magnetic field is at all time >directly proportional to the current, I would be interested to hear of >your results. > >An independant engineer is also begining a series of tests to check if any >departures from conventional theory and bevavior is shown. > >As this subject has captured a good deal of attention, I will keep you all >abreast of any future developments. > Please try to verify the Newman motors via a calorimeter test ! Just to test one or two single coils without a rotating magnet and without a machanical switching commutator is ridicolous ! It does not make any sense at all.... Have you read this article yet ??? RESEARCH REPORT PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages 6015-6020) PUBLISHED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHYSICS TITLE: Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional Magnetic Configuration Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 11:05:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA12229; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604301339.PAA03689@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman's overunity proof... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >>A quick hint: > >>The above formular is only true, if you use a static coil ! > >>In the Newman case, where a permanent magnet rotates inside the coil, >>this formula is not true and had to be enhanced. > >The formula I(t) =3D E/R (1 - e^(-t R/L)) describes the two coil >demonstration of Mr. Newman, and was not intended to address Mr. Newman's= =20 >motor. > What is inside the 2 coils ? A rotating magnet ? Then the formular shown above is not sufficient, cause the magnet inside accelerates and induces back EMF into the coil.... ! I did not yet see this new video tape ! But I would concentrate on his available motors and not on the explanations of his technology. He might be wrong in the explanations, but the motors really show some overunity effects... So I would drop the conversation about this 2 coil experiment and try to study his motors !!! >>There you can see, that indeed, when the communitator switched, >>there flows indeed a big back current pulse to the battery, which also >>lights a few indescandent bulbs connected in series with the batteries=20 >>and and the coils. > >>So when the magnet rotates inside the coil, there is indeed coming >>more energy out, when the field collapses, than is put in, when the=20 >>field builds up. > >I see. > >But Mr. Hartmann, to accurately say if more power is leaving the coil >than entering, we must make very specific measurments. > >>I quote Dr. Hastings findings over here, which you did not seem >>to have read carefully: > >Actually, I read the quoted section of Dr. Hastings report with great >interest. (omitted here for length.) > >Dr. Hastings is claiming to measure the average wattage, with no evidence >that he calculated the power factors first, and then comparing the claimed >average wattages in and out. =20 > No, he has measured the energy cointained over ONE cycle of rotation. If you use the big constant back current pulse (0.4 Amperes during 60 msec) flowing back to the battery versus the small constant amount of current going into=20 the coil (20 mA during 31msec), then you can see, that: with a CONSTANT DC battery voltage of 150 Volts the energy coming out=20 of the coil is indeed 4 times bigger than=20 the input energy during ONE 360 degree rotation cycle of the magnet. So you do NOT need any power factors ! Pure DC ! View the scope readings ! Have a look in Newman=B4s book at page 46 / 47 Third edition /first issue= =20 where this test is printed. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 11:06:41 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA11408; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604301338.PAA03683@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Earthtech volunteers to test Newman device X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 06:22:42 -0700 (PDT) >From: Scott Little >Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: Newman motor > >At 10:59 PM 4/19/96 -0700, Robin wrote: > >>I would like to propose to Mr. Newman, and all members of this list >>that we as a group ask Scott Little to do an independent test of the >>Newman motor. Such a test, preferably to be carried out under >>conditions agreed upon by both parties. > >We (EarthTech) are willing to perform these tests according to concensus of >the group and to publish a detailed report of our findings. > > - Scott Little > EarthTech International, Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 > 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) > Please take the measurements results on my WEB server about the Newman machine as a comparison to your upcoming tests. You can probably learn a lot in advance. Try to conduct a calorimeter test, cause this will give final conclusion ! http://www.overunity.de Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue Apr 30 11:10:33 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA12594; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 10:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604301338.PAA03680@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Hasting's Report (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >--- FORWARDED --- >fm: GREG WATSON > >To : >Evan Soule, >Director of Information, >Newman Energy Products. > > > >ON 20/3/96 YOU POSTED THE FOLLOWING : > > Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 09:55:41 -0800 > X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) > Subject: PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS OF ONE NEWMAN MOTOR > > PERFORMANCE ANALYSIS OF ONE NEWMAN MOTOR > >SNIP > >HERE DR. HASTINGS HAS USED A VALID PROCEDURE TO MEASURE RUNNING LOSSES >ON A 700LB ROTOR AS 0.7 WATTS. > > > > >GREG WATSON Please concentrate on the huge back pulse current, which flows through the coil and is heating the coil. This alone already produces overunity ! All other energy components in the Newman motor are relatively small and smaller than the electrical input power.... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:09:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA00330; Wed, 1 May 1996 07:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Sorry, folks... I want to take this little thread private, but I want to make sure Soule sees it here also. Thanks, John Fields ------------------- On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > Because I will endeavor to respond within the guidelines set by the Host of > this Forum, I will not violate Rule One or Rule Three of this Forum. > PRIVATELY, however, I would have VERY SPECIAL WORDS for John Fields that > MOST ASSUREDLY ****would**** violate Rules One and Three of this Forum. > > Evan Soule > ****************************************************** Evan, By retaliating publicly when email is available, _you_ are breaking the rules. If you wish to continue this discussion, I'll be waitin' for ya. John Fields starship@fc.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:21:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA01883; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Evan Soule wrote: >> >> it is with some degree of will power that I do not PUBLICLY >> present on this Forum a wide variety of explicit and challenging anatomical >> and biological suggestions for Mr. John Fields to undertake. > >We all appreciate Mr. Soule's gentility. I, for one, think it's likelier >that Mr. Fields could actually perform your anatomical script than Mr. >Newman could prove the validity of his "invention." > >Henry O Henry: Thank you for your kind letter. Not knowing what anatomical script you think I have in mind, perhaps it would be more pleasurably possible for you and Mr. Fields to work together on this project. Since Joseph Newman has already proved the validity of his technology in the field of energy, your "dually-participated project" could open a "new field" in the history of human relations. With gentility in mind, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:23:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA03057; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Newman Threads X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Free Energy: > >Concerning Newman, > >I started out this chain of posts making summary judgements which were most >unsupported and unkind, thinking that this was a fairly private listserv, >but to my chagrin, my post was relayed to Evan Soule, who responded most >aggressively. I made my peace with Evan Soule and he has interacted with >quite a few people through Free Energy. > ---cut--- >I can understand the strong judgmental reactions to Newman, but we do not >need any more posts along those lines. On Newman, I think the score to the >present moment is clear. So far, Newman has flunked Free Energy 101. ---cut--- > >Michael Mandeville, publisher ___________________________ Reply: Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Michael...with which I happen to disagree. Speaking only in general, I have found that the real problem are those who have flunked Curiosity 100. Best regards, Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:26:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA03824; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Sorry, folks... >I want to take this little thread private, but I want to make sure Soule >sees it here also. >Thanks, John Fields >------------------- > >On Mon, 29 Apr 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > >> Because I will endeavor to respond within the guidelines set by the Host of >> this Forum, I will not violate Rule One or Rule Three of this Forum. >> PRIVATELY, however, I would have VERY SPECIAL WORDS for John Fields that >> MOST ASSUREDLY ****would**** violate Rules One and Three of this Forum. >> >> Evan Soule >> ****************************************************** >Evan, >By retaliating publicly when email is available, _you_ are breaking >the rules. If you wish to continue this discussion, I'll be waitin' >for ya. > John Fields > starship@fc.net > ********************************************************* To the Forum: Reply to comment of above-named individual: Hardly. So far there has BEEN NO public "retaliation" on this Forum. Nor do I chose to violate Rules One and Three of this Forum with insulting statements. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:28:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA02459; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The difference between PRINCIPLE and APPLICATION X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Evan Soule wrote: >> >> When one is aware of the full 30-year history of the supression of this >> technology > > >Does this mean that Newman's machine works, but a conspiracy of the >Trilateral Committee, Exxon, the Libertarians, and Chrysler has >successfully prevented Mr. Newman from fame and fortune? > >Please, Mr. Soule. If communication skill is evidence of intelligence >(and most psychometrists think it is), you're a bright man. When I >telephoned you today, it was with the full expectation that you would >admit that this is all a put-on, a gag, a prank, etc. I hoped we could >share some ideas for throwing gasoline on the fire and having even more >fun. But you were SERIOUS! > >So how can a serious and bright man expect me to believe there's been 30 >years of suppression of Newman's work? > >Henry O Henry: I don't want you to "believe" anything. For those who have availed themselves of the facts of the history of Joseph Newman's struggle to bring this technology forward: the facts speak speak louder than any "belief." And by the way, in response to the words at the end of your second paragraph above, I am indeed "DEADLY" or (I would prefer) "LIVELY" SERIOUS. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:28:52 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA04345; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31860979.1BD0@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A $500k offer to Newman/Soule X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > >if patents are refused Show me a "good" patent app for something that WAS "reduced to practice" but WAS NOT offered for sale earlier than 12 months prior to the patent app, and about 12-24 months later I'll show you a patent! > shakeout at USPTO ... and get Newman's device accepted? I have seen no evidence that there's anything wrong at the USPTO... > If the scientists minds are closed Do a "sheep & goats" separation without disclosing the purpose of the test; that is, pick people who (LIKE ME) are positively inclined regarding such an energy source. Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:36:17 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA05166; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604302128.RAA21377@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Hartwell's responses. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Ralph Hartwell asked: > Error.. based on what? A standard carbon-zinc cell will deliver the >maximum current and voltage at the beginning of the discharge period, >and the terminal voltage will drop thereafter with continued load. It >is true that due to the mobility of ions in the liquid electrolyte, >wet-cell storage batteries may exhibit an immediate decline in terminal >potential when a load is first applied, followed in a minute or so by a >slight increase in voltage as the electrolyte begins circulating into >the pores of the battery plates. However, I have not read of nor have I >seen this effect in a standard "dry" battery. Mr. Hartwell, If you reproduce the two coil demonstration, you will find that under high current demands, nine volt batteries often do not deliver maximum current at the beginning of the discharge curve just as I did. Have you tested for this effect in the two coil demonstration? Also, notice that as the battery voltage drops, more power is dissipated in the internal impedance of the batteries. This in no way contributes to the magnetic field produced. Also, please report your findings on the relationship between the magnetic field strength and the measured current delivered. Why sir, does this effect totally disappear when the coils are driven from a constant current power supply, and why is the magnetic field proportional to the current? Why can the effect shown be reproduced with resistors alone? And lastly, why do the currents and magnetic fields appear to fit with conventional theory in the two coil test when all energy input parameters are accounted for? J> In cases where AC power is used to drive the Newman motor, no J> measurements of AC power factors have been made. It is known from >Incorrect-o! I always insisted that Joe take PF into consideration >from the time he began to power his system from the AC line. My apologies sir, Then please provide this data so that we may judge the validity of simply multiplying the current and voltage to calculate the power. As no mention of accounting for AC power factors is present in the documentation to date, we must assume that there is no significant phase angle present. As you have now stated that this has been measured, you can see why we find it to be significant here. Also, why sir, is this data totally missing from your "UTILIZATION OF THE NEWMAN MOTOR/GENERATOR (fwd)" message here on this forum? J> other University testing that the power factor, or phase angle between J> current and voltage is very high in the Newman device. > Do you mean INSIDE the Newman device or in the power supply connected >to the AC line? In the testing I refer to, the Newman device was driven by batteries, and I refer to the power factor between the batteries and Newman motor here. J> AC power meters will not read the true wattage used under these J> conditions. With the power factor of the Newman motor, the watt meter J> will read artificially low. > The wattmeter Joe uses was specifically designed to read true AC >watts even in the presence of distorted waveforms and low power factors. Please Mr. Hartwell, can you provide any specifics here? What are the specifications of this device? J> RF wattmeters also will give incorrect readings where high power J> factors are involved. Current transformers will incorrectly measure J> current if the waveform is not a sine wave, again as in the case of J> the Newman device. > True enough, if you are trying to read the output pulse. That's why >you should not try to read the output directly - it just won't work. Then how do you defend the fact that this appears to have been done several times in the testing documentation posted here? How then do you measure the efficiency Mr. Hartwell? J> Tests such as those at the Lucedale park cannot be taken to show that J> the power delivered by the Newman device is larger than that consumed J> due to these factors. > The AC power supply uses a magnetically shunted primary winding so the >output current is limited. Further, the output voltage from the >transformer is rectified and slightly filtered before being fed to the >Newman Machine. This results in a reasonably stable input current >waveshape during the operation of the Newman Device. Just how did you measure the device in these cases? J> AS an example, a accurate measurement of 100 volts at 10 amps might J> actually represent a true wattage of anywhere between 10 and 1,000 J> watts depending on the phase angle between current and voltage. > True, unless you use the correct instruments. Again, this information has not been presented in the testing posted here to date. The burden of proof that the AC power factor is not an issue here rests on Newman Energy Products. J> By design, the Newman motor renders most power measurements invalid. > See above. Please Mr. Hartwell, directly address the issue, without "blowing smoke" as I understand Mr. Newman has a dislike for this. So do the readers here. J> This power factor effect is also present when the Newman device is J> powered by batteries. for this reason, the testing by Dr. Hastings J> is incorrectly done. The power factors were not addressed, and the J> wattage calculations do not reflect the true performance of the Newman J> device. > Oops - sorry, no. PF by definition is an AC problem. DC is either >there or it's not. Besides, a battery's terminal voltage will fall >depending on what the effective current is that is being drawn from it. >In effect, it behaves as a chemical averaging system, wherein many short >pulses will result in the same energy drain over time as will a smaller >steady current drawn by a resistive load. Incorrect sir, high frequency components are present, and have been described as being important to the operating principles of the invention. This is apparently either an error, or an obfuscation. > While the interpulse terminal voltage may approach the open circuit >terminal voltage of the battery, placing the battery on a steady load >will quickly cause the pulse discharged battery to exhibit the true >steady-state discharge voltage correctly indicative of the actual >battery condition. Therefore, it is possible to test a battery which >has been discharged by a non-standard device and obtain an accurate of >the battery life remaining. Incorrect. The total energy delived by a battery is a direct function of the rate of delivery. As evidence of this fact, note that the Ampere hours rating of a battery is stated at a specific rate of discharge, and often the battery has several Ampere hours values for different rates of energy delivery. This fact is easily verified. I would like to hear Mr. Hartwell's response on this point! > Why do I mention all this? Because of the fact that time and time >again it has been shown that when a properly adjusted Newman Machine is >operating from batteries, the terminal voltage will INCREASE over time >as the machine is operated. Generally, it may be assumed that the >battery voltage will decrease as power is drawn from the battery. What >conclusion may we draw if the voltage increases instead? This can be accounted for by the rate of recharge exceeding the maximum allowed for the battery over very short time periods. Note that this in no way implies that the total recharge energy is greater than the total discharge energy. Again, this is related to the confusion of total energy and power with peak anergy and power. This issue has come up in several instances. J> Every effort should be made to eliminate both AC power factors and the J> at times odd behaviors of batteries from Mr. Newman's claims. >This has, in fact, already been done. I think everyone here would love to see the data, it's been totally ignored in Mr. Soule's posted testing data. This has raised many questions. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:41:29 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA06008; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604302128.RAA21361@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Two coil test. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: In a long delayed message, I wrote: >>This is the normal performance of the batteries used. This effect can >>be observed with resistors alone, as it is greater than the effects of >>the higher inductance of the larger coil. If Mr.. Newman repeats this >>same test with several pairs of batteries in parallel, to supply a >>higher initial current to the larger coil, he will find that the time >>to maximum magnetic field levels is much shorter. Mr. Soule responded: >________________________________ >REPLY: Apples and Oranges. One of the important factors is that the >batteries are connected in series. >________________________________ Mr. Soule, Mr. Newman, I specified several pairs of batteries (each pair being in series) connected in parallel, so that a higher maximum current can be drawn without the effects of the delay time to maximum delivered current I described in my testing report. A constant current power supply also totally eliminates the effect Mr. Newman takes as supporting his theory. I also wrote: >>If both current and voltage are measured while the fields reach their >>maximum values, it is clear that Mr. Newman's claimed effect does not >>exist. Nothing beyond the bounds of conventional theory are shown in >>this demonstration, and the support for Mr. Newman's theory is not >>present. And Mr. Soule responded: >________________________________ >REPLY: It most certainly does exist and is present. And if one understands >Joseph Newman's technology then this becomes self-evident. >________________________________ No sir, in my opinion and direct testing, all effects described to date have been reproduced (including the larger coil reaching a higher magnetic field intensity, in less time than a smaller coil) and fully shown to be due to conventional theory alone. This suggests a failure to apply Occam's razor as discussed, by attributing the apparently unusual phenomema of the two coil demonstration to processes outside conventional theory when conventional theory fully described all effects observed in this demonstration. Based on this, it is my opinion that Newman Energy Products should review the two coil demonstration from the perspective of conventional theory as described by the tine to maxiumum current delivered from the batteries used in that same demonstration. I also wrote: >>The time to maximum delivered power from the batteries fully accounts >>for the difference in time to maximum magnetic field strength. The >>fact that two inductors of differing masses exhibit identical >>electrical performance also is at direct odds with Mr. Newman's >>theory. Mr. Soule responded: >________________________________ >REPLY: If one includes the fact that the stronger magnetic field of the >large coil is reached FASTER than that of the small coil then the >"inductors of differing masses" DO NOT exhibit "identical electrical >performance." >________________________________ >Evan Soule Apparently, I have failed to make myself understood in this matter. As being understood is in my opinion the responsibility of the speaker, please allow me to address this issue again. Conventional theory states that the magnetic field is due to the current (in a given coil), and Mr. Newman claims this is incorrect. If we measure the current flowing in a coil as the magnetic field is expanding, we find that the magnetic field and current are proportional. In the larger coil in the two coil experiment, the batteries deliver maximum current far sooner, due to the lower current demand (as duplicated with resistive loads alone!) of the larger coil. Due to the delay in the batteries reaching maximum delivered current when connected to the smaller coil, this coil reaches its maximum magnetic field intensity in a much longer time, due to the delay effects of the batteries at higher current loadings. As this effect has been duplicated with resistors alone, it is my opinion that the smaller coil taking longer to reach full intensity than the larger has now been fully understood by conventional theory alone. The conventional ampere turns law tells us that a larger coil can have a higher magnetic field intensity than a smaller coil, so the higher intensity of the larger coil also has a completely conventional explanation. Now, the question is, which theoretical description is actually at work here? As Mr. Newman has not documented the types of measurements that show the effects observed to be understandable in terms of conventional theory, he has failed to rule out the possibility that the apparent "direct violations" of conventional theory are actually totally conventional phenomena, if we are careful with our measurements. Mr. Soule has often claimed the operational devices created by Mr. Newman as being proof of Mr. Newman's theory. If we apply conventional theory to Mr. Newman's device, we can understand how the measurement methods documented to date might appear to show more energy delivered than used, but by conventional theory these same measurement methods have problems measuring the true power in these cases, and stand rejected. Conventional theory does have problems and limitations, but it does fully describe the types of phenomema documented to date. Without addressing the issues raised with the testing documentation, we cannot objectively accept Mr. Newman's devices as proof of his theory, untillconventional explanations have been eliminated as possibilities. This is not yet the case, by a very long stretch in my opinion. Please refer to the private email I sent to your office privately in this matter. I hope that by better understanding the conventional explanations for the phenomema so far documented, we can resolve the question of which theory, Mr. Newman's or the conventional theory is actually at work in the two coil demonstration. Once this is done, the case for Mr. Newman's motor is far easier to make. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:48:18 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA07313; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604302128.RAA21365@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman's offer. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >From Mr. Newman's theory: >>Now, conduct another test with 5-gauge copper wire which has a resistance >>of .3133 Ohms for 1000 feet. However, to equal the same resistance as in >>15-A above, one must now use 3,348,000 feet of 5-gauge wire with a massive, >>total weight (of atoms composed of gyroscopic particles moving and >>traveling at the speed of light, i.e., the mechanical essence of Einstein's >>Equation of E=mc^2) of 335,469.6 lbs. or 16.77 tons. Such wire is turned >>into a coil with a 10-foot interior diameter and 8.32-foot height. This >>structure would have approximately a phenomenal 90,000 turns of 5-gauge >>(copper atoms). If 100 volts were now connected to coil 15-B, then a >>current flow of approximately 95MA could occur with a total power input of >>9.5 watts and a resulting, phenomenally larger magnetic field of 23.7 Gauss >>or 1,905 times larger for coil 15-B than for coil 15-A, and 116 Joules of >>energy stored in the magnetic field of Figure 15-B. This represents a >>phenomenal 8 millions times more energy than in the 40-gauge coil of 15-A. > My reply to this: >Completely wrong. In this case, the time to full magnetic field strengh >is far far longer, and so, much much more power is stored in the magnetic >field, not the same 9.5 watts claimed. This error is indefensible. Mr. Soule's response: __________________________________ Reply: Once again, you fail to understand the nature of Joseph Newman's technical process. As in the case of the larger coil in the 2-Coil demonstration, the time to reach maximum magnetic strength is SHORTER than in the smaller coil. This is very significant. __________________________________ Mr. Soule, it is not necessacery to read the depth and breadth of Mr. Newman's life work to see the clear error in calling the steady state power the "total" power. If Mr. Newman's book contains material relevant to this apparent error, you should provide it, and not ask us to buy the book to address these issues, as this list server is intended for those with a heavy experimental background, and not to promote Newman Energy Products' products. Yes, I agree that the two coil test shows the larger coil reaching maximum magnetic strength in a "SHORTER" time then the smaller, but you must recognise that this IS DESCRIBED BY CONVENTIONAL THEORY WHEN THE CURRENT OVER TIME DELIVERED BY THE BATTERIES IS MEASURED AND ACCOUNTED FOR. This being the case, and because the video tape demonstration does not measure all relevant factors to rule out the conventional explanation, the burden of proof rests squarely on your shoulders. As Director of Information for Newman Energy Products, and their representative here on freenrg-l, I hope you will address this issue. Issues thought to be valid by an apparent majority have not been addressed with the possible exception of self serving promotion of your commercial products. Clearly this is a violation of the intent of this list server. As you often like to cite apparent violations of the rules, you must also respect their intent. Mr. Newman's offer of debate fails to address this list server community, and therefore I suggest the venue be changed from New Orleans, to this forum. A panel of judges should be recruited from the membership and representatives of Newman Energy Products. All points of technical contention will be addressed by direct experimentation with all relevant measurements provided, and collected under mutually agreed test protocols. The results will be delivered to our readers, and appointed judges, and a majority vote used to resolve the issue. As the first issue, the two coil test. I will relate this offer to the interested party, and see if he prefers this method, or Mr. Newman's version. Should we agree to a wager on this first issue, as I discussed with Mr. Newman in our telephone conversation, the monies might be wired to an appointed foreman for redistribution to the victor. The internet itself will serve to document and verify all testimony offered. Any interest? If you want to silence the hordes (and ogre?), then address the hordes, not the citizens of New Orleans. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:50:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA08084; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604302129.RAA21391@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: re: two coils demonstration X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I wrote: >Mr. Newman has compounded his error in not accounting for the L/R time contant >in calculating the input power of the small coil by repeating his mistake again >with the larger coil. This clearly shows the level of Mr. Newman's >confusion on >this matter. Mr. Soule responded: >____________________________ >Reply: Your opinion. (And you're entitled to it although Joseph Newman >would most emphatically disagree with you.) Suggest you read his book on >this subject. >____________________________ This is not a matter of my opinion sir, but of accepted conventional theory. I suggest you become more familiar with conventional theory, as it is this you are arguing against. This list server has a stated emphasis on experimental work over "pie in the sky" theory. To date, I have complied with this tenet, while you simply parrot your claims that we need to read Mr. Newman's book in order to address points of contention. This is inappropriate for this forum, and I ask for moderation on this point. I wrote: > >As Mr. Newman has been laboring under the assumption that the larger coil >reaches full strength in less time (untrue, and disproven) this again compounds >the error in not accounting for the L/R time constant, and leads Mr. Newman to >the incorrect conclusion that more power is returned by the coil that was >dissipated in generating that same field. Mr. Soule responded: >____________________________ >Reply: Mr. Newman knows fulls well that the larger coil reaches full >strength in less time than the smaller coil. Conventional science says the >opposite should happen! If you still have a problem understanding this, >suggest you contact Joseph Newman at (601) 947-7147 --- or better yet, read >his book. >____________________________ Conventional science just does not say that larger coils will always take longer, Mr. Soule. It depends on several factors, and the larger will take longer under the conditions conventional theory describes. These factors are not the same in the video taped demonstration, so conventional theory may not state that the larger coil will take longer to reach maximum intensity. We must account for all factors here. Is this so difficult? As you seem not to understand how conventional theory can permit the larger coil to reach a higher level faster when driven by the same pair of batteries, I suggest that it is you who should invest in a good book. The coils have different resistances, and the batteries act accordingly. Please seek an understanding of conventional theory in this matter, and then directly observe a test of the phenomena. Nothing less than this is an objective search for the truth here. I most certianly do not want anyone to take my word on this, as it's only my opinion based on my observations. I want people to test it themselves. As a start, simply measure any two different inductors, and confirm or deny the L/R time constant effect and then re-read the sections of Mr. Newman's theory posted in this forum. Then, make an INFORMED decision on what is true. That's the whole point of freenrg-l as I understand it. You seem to see something else here. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 08:56:33 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA09024; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604302126.XAA04871@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman products... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>3. Does Newman Energy Products offer products for sale as noted above? >>Does Newman Energy Products promote and make sale to investors? Has it >>done so in the past? Has Newman Energy Products sold products and sold >>to investors in Louisiana, or other states and countries? If so, >>where? >> As far as I know of, they in this moment only sell his book and videotapes of the various demonstrations. As he did not yet get a patent in the USA, for which he is still fighting, he has no patent protection and major companies complain about this, if they want to manufacture something for you.... regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:05:02 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA10061; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199604302344.TAA24426@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: How to Catch a "Tiger" by his Tale. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: "How To Catch a Tiger by his Tale." Mr. Soule wrote: >Joseph Newman does not view his credibility as "tarnished" in any way, >shape or form. This is your property. Ditto for his intellectual honesty. >The book is available for sale. You can buy it --- you cannot buy it. Quite >frankly, RWW, Joseph Newman could care less what you do. Joseph Newman does >not "owe" you or anyone else the knowledge contained in the book. If you >want it, you can purchase it like any other product. If not, great! He >could care less. >This technology is proven, operational prototypes exist, and it is going >forward. Those who "mooch" want "something for nothing." Since we still >live (or so I thought) in a country that believes in Free Enterprise, the >book is available like any other product. >If you have difficulty with this, Joseph Newman can be reached at (601) >947-7147. If you don't have difficulty with this, great! >Best regards, >Evan Soule >josephnewman@earthlink.net >(504) 524-3063 Mr. Soule, You might not be aware of the fact that many basic issues have been raised here, some by direct experimentation, that cast major doubts on Mr.Newman's claims and theory. All evidence to date has only deepend these doubts rather than address them in an intellectually honest manner. You claim that we fail to understand Mr. Newman's theory in response. Rather than address the issues, you simply state that it's all been proven by Mr. Newman's devices, but this does not address the issues in an intellectually honest manner. In many posts, you have suggested that we read Mr. Newman's book, do not fully understand his work, or the claimed suppression he has endured. As this list server is intended for those with a heavy experimental background, and you have implied that Mr. Newman apparently takes no stock in the issues raised, then as Mr. Newman's representitive here, why are you on freenrg-l? As Mr. Newman has shown himself less than receptive to experimental evidence against his personal views, posting his number here is not in keeping with the concepts behind freenrg-l, and in my opinion far from a proper response on this forum. Mr. Newman has proven to be verbally abusive to any suggestions of evidence against his claims, just as Newman Energy Products, in the person of Mr. Newman himself has stated he will not waste his time addressing "pot shots" taken at his lifes work. I object to direct experimental work being called a "pot shot", and as you so often done, I request an apology. To date, the actions of Newman Energy Products has clearly shown a total lack of dedication to the fundemental concepts of freenrg-l. As Newman Energy Products is a business, your actions here can only be described as being of a commercial nature. This ongoing situation is effecting the perceptions others have of freenrg-l as shown below: >I applaud your interest in moving past the Newman Motor discussion. I >have been shadowing the group for a few weeks and was about to cancel >when I ran across your post on NMR. With this being the case, I suggest one of several actions be taken: 1. Newman Energy Products should apologise to the readership of freenrg-l, and begin to address the issues raised on this forum with technical discusions, experiments designed to test and resolve the issues raised here, and cease insisting that we read Mr. Newman's book, or subject ourselves to Mr. Newman's verbal abuse in response to experimental data to address the issues raised by your postings here. 2. Failing item 1 above, moderation may be in order to restate the emphisis on experimental data over pure theory intended for this forum, and, 3. If item 1 is not satisfied, that the readership vote that Mr. Soule withdraw from freenrg-l for repeated violations of the intent and function of freenrg-l, by means of commercial abuse. In my personal opinion, any failure (on our parts) to address this ongoing issue is dammaging to the "intellectual honesty" and credibility of our list. Again, we have a stated dedication to direct, objective experimental work and wish to uphold a degree of professionalisim so far absent in the actions of Newman Energy Products on this forum. This dedication prevents us from establishing scientific fact on the basis for public opinion, as Mr. Barnum often attempted to do, and Mr. Newman suggests. If Newman Energy Products will not uphold the tennants of this forum, then this is not the proper venue for Newman Energy Products to conduct business. As Mr. Soule himself wrote: >If you don't have difficulty with this, great! Bob Shannon. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:07:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA10529; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605010002.UAA24940@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Mr. Hartmann's comments. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mr. Hartmann wrote: >Just to test one or two single coils without a rotating magnet and without >a machanical switching commutator is ridicolous ! It does not make any >sense at all.... Then sir, why did Mr. Newman product the demonstration, and why does he now sell a video tape of this as a demonstration of his theory of magnetisim? Why did Mr. Newman react so strongly when I described my testing and the results I measured? Mr. Newman is of the opinion it's important to his theory. In another post, Mr. Hartmann wrote: >What is inside the 2 coils ? A rotating magnet ? No sir, nothing at all. Please re-read the posts on this experiment. Mr. Newman claims that this demonstration shows a larger magnetic field is created sooner, and with less energy by the larger coil that is produced by a smaller coil, it apparent violation of conventional theory. First, two batteries drive the smaller coil, and a crude gaussmeter shows the intensity, and rate of magnetic field production. Next, the same two batteries are connected to a far larger coil, and the gaussmeter indicates a higher field intensity, in less time than was the case for the smaller coil. This apparently violates conventional theory, and indeed it appears to, until the current, voltage, and magnetic field levels are all measured. When this is done, no evidence for Mr. Newman's effect remains based on my direct testing. This addresses Mr. Newman's stated theory only, and not his motor. I have no direct experience with the motor, only the two coil demonstration, and the claims Mr. Newman makes about the effects shown. In fact, Mr. Newman's theory can be shown to be on very weak ground by winding only a single very large coil, and then verifing that the current does obey the L/R time constant formula, and that at all times, the magnetic field produced is fully described by conventional theory alone. If this is not the case, then we have something. If only conventional effects are observed, what then Mr. Hartmann? >But I would concentrate on his available motors and not on the explanations >of his technology. He might be wrong in the explanations, but the motors >really show some overunity effects... >So I would drop the conversation about this 2 coil experiment and try to >study his motors !!! Measuring the motor is not as easy, and Mr. Newman has been quoted as being of the opinion that his theroy of magnetisim is 10,000 times more important than his motor. It's where I began testing, and found no evidence for Mr. Newman's theroy, and only conventional behavior. As Mr. Newman is very unwilling to concider the possibility of any error in the two coil demonstration, how can we expect him to be any more objective on matters of testing his motor? >If you use the big constant back current pulse (0.4 Amperes during 60 msec) >flowing back to the battery versus the small constant amount of current >going into the coil (20 mA during 31msec), >then you can see, that: >with a CONSTANT DC battery voltage of 150 Volts the energy coming out >of the coil is indeed 4 times bigger than the input energy during ONE >360 degree rotation cycle of the magnet. >So you do NOT need any power factors ! Pure DC ! View the scope readings ! Swithing a DC supply to an inductor is not pure DC, due to the L/R time constant effects. Dr. Hastings went so far as to use the L/R time constant to estimate the inductance of the coil of a Newman motor! Clearly the device is inductive, is it not? So far, you have shown the current and duration of the input and output pulses, but have not given the data on the voltages in each case. In your reading of the oscilloscope display given in reference here, is the current constant throughout the charge and discharge periods? Is the voltage? Why do you dismiss the power factors, when the data you cite above in not sufficient to calculate the power in or out? Several accounts of the oscilloscope waveforms all describe high frequency components, and Mr. Newman claimed that by the NBS's grounding of his device, this "operating principle" of his device was not addressed, and renders their measurments invalid. Who then can you possibly maintain that it's all pure DC power? Can you see the problems here? It cannot be both ways Mr. Hartmann. Mr. Newman's own words catch him, and you here. If the oscilloscope does not show a flat line, it's just not DC. Funny how it's DC if we mention AC power factors, but it's AC if the NBS grounds the thing! Lets see, it reverses polarity at 180 degrees, right? Hmmmm, DC you say? From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:10:14 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11165; Wed, 1 May 1996 08:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 08:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Henry Eisenson wrote: > Evan Soule wrote: > > > > it is with some degree of will power that I do not PUBLICLY > > present on this Forum a wide variety of explicit and challenging anatomical > > and biological suggestions for Mr. John Fields to undertake. > > We all appreciate Mr. Soule's gentility. I, for one, think it's likelier > that Mr. Fields could actually perform your anatomical script than Mr. > Newman could prove the validity of his "invention." > > Henry > -------- Thank you, Mr. Eisenson, for your astute observations. I, for one, would be reticent to undertake any of the suggestions Mr. Soule might proffer, inasmuch as I am not not now, and never will be interested in his body. John Fields -------------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:17:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA12947; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3186ACA0.35BB@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Apology/Newman test circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mr. Joseph Newman Newman Energy Products Dear Mr. Newman, I submit the following direct to your private e-mail and to the freenrg-l group for your consideration: NEWMAN/WATSON TEST CIRCUIT #1 Diode D1 Diodes D3-D6 \ | (Full wave bridge) --------->|----x-O Newman Coil | / | | <--O--------x-----------x | --|-O | / \ + | Battery | | | \ / \|/ ------- | | _ \ --\ --/ Load --- | | / \/ /|\ / \ Resistor ------- | | \_/\ - / D3 D4 \ + --- | | _ | x x-----x-------- - | | | / \/ |\ D5 \ / | | | | | \_/\ | \ --\ | / | | | / | \|/ /|\ ------- \ | | / | | | | --/ / D6 --- \ --------|<---x-|--O | | / \ / / | \ / | \ | <--O-------x-----|-----x | | ---O | | | ^ ------------------x-------- Diode D2 ^ High Voltage ^ Capacitor Newman Commutator This test circuit can be easily added to any Newman Motor to trap and measure the back EMF generated when the commutator opens. Diodes D1 and D2 STOP any energy flowing back into the battery and allow the full wave bridge to transfer maximum coil energy into the storage capacitor. The load resistor will allow back EMF power to be measured via a simple E x I calculation. You have always maintained that the key to the technology is the extra energy generated by the trapped gyrotrons and the larger than expected magnetic field thus generated. This circuit should show more power being dissipated in the load resistor than being drawn from the battery. As diodes D1 and D2 stop charging currents flowing into the battery, the battery power used can be measured without the problems associated with the very electrically noisy, fast rise time back EMF pulses. The diodes used should have a ultra fast recovery time of <50Ns or they will consume some of the fast rise time back EMF energy. If your gyrotron theory is correct, this circuit should allow you to directly generate excess energy without the need for a magnetic rotor. If so, all you need to do is to use a small motor to turn the commutator and the excess magnetic field thus generated by the trapped gyrotrons will provide excess energy into the output capacitor. Believe me Mr. Newman, I want your technology to be real. I want to see a future filled with clean energy. I to, like you, have searched for this goal, for too...too many years. Been there, done that. I know the temptations of rounding your results to favor your theory. Of repeating a test many times to get the highest/lowest result we seek. We are all human. But I have learned that physics is a harsh mistress and it is only by learning, listening and never closing our minds to the truth, to the possibility of getting it wrong, that the goal we all seek can finally be found. Please don't reject my suggestions, they are yours to use as you see fit. I place them into the public domain. Try the circuit, report the results. Lets get this group back to investigation and experimentation. I apologize to Mr. Evan Soule for my earlier remarks. If your technology really works, then you deserves full praise and all the financial rewards it may bring you and your organization. We are not here to distroy or steal your technology. You do have friends here. Critical friends, who understand physics, electronics, magnetics, marketing, who will back you, we only ask for some solid results that we can get our collective brain power into. Remember, None of US is a smart as ALL of us. Some of us have actually been down the road you travel, maybe you have been further, maybe not. Lets travel it in company. I seek nothing financial from you Mr. Newman. My help and experience is yours for the asking. All we seek is a open two way conversation, with respect shown by BOTH sides. May the gods of physics shine on you and your gyrotrons. Sincerely, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:22:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA14793; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605010303.UAA24486@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Scalar Gradiometer Meters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 10:54 PM 4/27/96 -0700, you wrote: > > >RWW says: meters still available > > >To date, I have been unable to obtain steel core material for the >Barkhausen scalar detector. Any sources would be most appreciated. > >Thanks, > >RWW > > I would love to send you some money for the meters. I would like to have two of them. Where do I send you some dough? My address is: 22025 NE Redmond Fall City Road Redmond, WA 98053 BTW: What chararteristics are mandated for the steel core material? The more specificity the better. I might have a source. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:31:17 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA16491; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: To Greg Watson: Thank you! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson prepared the following: ____________________________________ I submit the following direct to your private e-mail and to the freenrg-l group for your consideration: NEWMAN/WATSON TEST CIRCUIT #1 Diode D1 Diodes D3-D6 \ | (Full wave bridge) --------->|----x-O Newman Coil | / | | <--O--------x-----------x | --|-O | / \ + | Battery | | | \ / \|/ ------- | | _ \ --\ --/ Load --- | | / \/ /|\ / \ Resistor ------- | | \_/\ - / D3 D4 \ + --- | | _ | x x-----x-------- - | | | / \/ |\ D5 \ / | | ---snip--- Greg Watson _____________________________________ My reply: May 1, 1996 Dear Greg: Thank you for your letter: I know that it took a considerable amount of time, thought and effort to prepare, and I respect this. I also accept and thank you for your apology. I have printed your email and will endeavor to send it tomorrow to Joseph Newman in Mississippi. Honestly, I cannot say what(when) Mr. Newman will do(something) concerning your test circuit, but I do appreciate your taking the time to compose it. I will make certain that Joseph Newman receives it. I will urge him to address it. You wrote the following: "But I have learned that physics is a harsh mistress and it is only by learning, listening and never closing our minds to the truth, to the possibility of getting it wrong, that the goal we all seek can finally be found." My only response to your statement: elegantly put. Very sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 To reach Joseph Newman: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:32:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA16867; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: To sign off from freenrg-l X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: To subscribe/unsubscribe from freenrg-L, send this command to listproc@eskimo.com: unsubscribe freenrg-L Also, it sometimes pays to have a "sig" at the bottom of email messages. When some email program strips off the header, no one knows the addr of the person who sent the mail. I could unsubscribe you manually, but the header is gone, and I don't know your email addr. ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 06:55:10 -0700 (PDT) From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: bilb@eskimo.com Subject: Error Condition Re: Unsubscribe me! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt if this will be seen by a human being and suspect this will only get bounced back to me like the last dozen, but I'm at my wits end! If you or someone you know can UNSUBSCRIBE me from this freenrg-list, please do! I've been trying for over a week and nothing works! Help! Jamie From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 09:36:17 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA15852; Wed, 1 May 1996 09:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Two Sides to Every Viewpoint. (At Least.) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Two Sides to Every Viewpoint. (At Least.) > > >Mr. Soule wrote: > >>Joseph Newman does not view his credibility as "tarnished" in any way, >>shape or form. This is your property. Ditto for his intellectual honesty. > >>The book is available for sale. You can buy it --- you cannot buy it. Quite >>frankly, RWW, Joseph Newman could care less what you do. Joseph Newman does >>not "owe" you or anyone else the knowledge contained in the book. If you >>want it, you can purchase it like any other product. If not, great! He >>could care less. > >>This technology is proven, operational prototypes exist, and it is going >>forward. Those who "mooch" want "something for nothing." Since we still >>live (or so I thought) in a country that believes in Free Enterprise, the >>book is available like any other product. > >>If you have difficulty with this, Joseph Newman can be reached at (601) >>947-7147. If you don't have difficulty with this, great! > >>Best regards, > >>Evan Soule >>josephnewman@earthlink.net >>(504) 524-3063 > >Mr. Soule, > >You might not be aware of the fact that many basic issues have been raised >here, some by direct experimentation, that cast major doubts on Mr.Newman's >claims and theory. All evidence to date has only deepend these doubts rather >than address them in an intellectually honest manner. You claim that we >fail to understand Mr. Newman's theory in response. > >Rather than address the issues, you simply state that it's all been proven by >Mr. Newman's devices, but this does not address the issues in an intellectually >honest manner. > >In many posts, you have suggested that we read Mr. Newman's book, do not >fully understand his work, or the claimed suppression he has endured. > >As this list server is intended for those with a heavy experimental background, >and you have implied that Mr. Newman apparently takes no stock in the issues >raised, then as Mr. Newman's representitive here, why are you on freenrg-l? > >As Mr. Newman has shown himself less than receptive to experimental evidence >against his personal views, posting his number here is not in keeping with the >concepts behind freenrg-l, and in my opinion far from a proper response on this >forum. > >Mr. Newman has proven to be verbally abusive to any suggestions of evidence >against his claims, just as Newman Energy Products, in the person of Mr. >Newman himself has stated he will not waste his time addressing "pot shots" >taken at his >lifes work. I object to direct experimental work being called a "pot >shot", and >as you so often done, I request an apology. > >To date, the actions of Newman Energy Products has clearly shown a total >lack of dedication to the fundemental concepts of freenrg-l. As Newman >Energy Products is a business, your actions here can only be described as >being of a commercial nature. > >This ongoing situation is effecting the perceptions >others have of freenrg-l as shown below: > >>I applaud your interest in moving past the Newman Motor discussion. I >>have been shadowing the group for a few weeks and was about to cancel >>when I ran across your post on NMR. > >With this being the case, I suggest one of several actions be taken: > >1. Newman Energy Products should apologise to the readership of freenrg-l, >and begin to address the issues raised on this forum with technical discusions, >experiments designed to test and resolve the issues raised here, and cease >insisting that we read Mr. Newman's book, or subject ourselves to Mr. Newman's >verbal abuse in response to experimental data to address the issues raised >by your postings here. > >2. Failing item 1 above, moderation may be in order to restate the emphisis >on experimental data over pure theory intended for this forum, and, > >3. If item 1 is not satisfied, that the readership vote that Mr. Soule >withdraw from freenrg-l for repeated violations of the intent and function >of freenrg-l, by means of commercial abuse. > >In my personal opinion, any failure (on our parts) to address this ongoing >issue is dammaging to the "intellectual honesty" and credibility of our list. > >Again, we have a stated dedication to direct, objective experimental work >and wish to uphold a degree of professionalisim so far absent in the actions >of Newman Energy Products on this forum. This dedication prevents us from >establishing scientific fact on the basis for public opinion, as Mr. Barnum >often attempted to do, and Mr. Newman suggests. > >If Newman Energy Products will not uphold the tennants of this forum, then >this is not the proper venue for Newman Energy Products to conduct business. > >As Mr. Soule himself wrote: > >>If you don't have difficulty with this, great! > >Bob Shannon. ______________________________ April 30, 1996 Reply to Bob Shannon: A number of individuals have directly responded to me regarding the various posts about Joseph Newman's technology --- individuals who are sincere and truly curious about the technology. These individuals have indicated that they plan to read Joseph Newman's work and understand the technology for themselves. One individual just recently informed me that he obtained his copy of the book via the intralibrary loan. I applaude his initiative and his willingless to make an effort via his library system to obtain the information for himself. It would appear that others would rather complain. Per my original notice, I have made a post that a "FREE" copy of the lastest Wiring/Construction Diagram is available for anyone wishing to send a SASE. A number of individuals have availed themselves of this opportunity and will hopefully build their own prototypes. Maybe I should have "sold" the Diagram to "meet your commercial expectations." I would recommend that if you choose to use the words "stated dedication to direct, objective experimental work..." you should consider changing your phraseology to "stated dedication to direct, 'absolute-subjective' work..." to be more precise. You wrote: "As Newman Energy Products is a business, your actions here can only be described as being of a commercial nature." This is your opinion, Bob Shannon. I happen to believe it to be wrong. I have posted a number of posts which had nothing to do with "commercialism" --- as you would have others believe. As Joseph Newman stated in his CHALLENGE AND STATEMENT: "He (Evan Soule) informed me last night that a number of individuals --- who had never taken the time or honesty to read my Life's Work --- were taking "pot-shots" at what he had posted on the internet. Evan sent me copies of some of the "pot-shots" and these individuals were consistently stating FALSE information --- exactly as I had found years earlier before I originally published my energy machine Book in 1984." Joseph Newman did not mention that you --- Bob Shannon --- (by name) was taking "pot shots" at him. But if you are taking it personally, one could interpret this to mean that YOU actually feel you were. I find your comment about "verbal abuse" particularly interesting. If anyone has a claim to being subjected to "verbal abuse" it is myself. Some of the verbally-abusive, insulting comments specifically directed at me to date are: "chuck the motor in the nearest dump" "fraud" "GET OFF THE WEB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" "Stand accused as charged" "your bogus claims" "half-baked attempts" "his hangers-on" "alot of hype" "the 'inventor' nurtures a paying cult" "pipe dreams" "specious claims" "as useless as a 'new, improved, ON/OFF switch.'" "this P.T. Barnum type scam" "you are all charlatans" "Cut the crap" _______________________________ I extend my sincere appreciation to those individuals on the Forum who have responded privately to me with words of encouragement and support for Joseph Newman's work. It is for you and people like you that Joseph Newman's efforts are directed. Very sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman can be reached at: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 From bilb@eskimo.com Wed May 1 10:55:12 1996 Received: from ns.bbtt.com (ns.bbtt.com [194.77.35.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA07007 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 10:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (harti.bbtt.com [194.77.35.75]) by ns.bbtt.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA06764 for ; Wed, 1 May 1996 19:53:28 +0200 Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 19:53:28 +0200 Message-Id: <199605011753.TAA06764@ns.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Mr. Hartmann's comments. Status: RO X-Status: >Mr. Hartmann wrote: > >>Just to test one or two single coils without a rotating magnet and without >>a machanical switching commutator is ridicolous ! It does not make any >>sense at all.... > >Then sir, why did Mr. Newman product the demonstration, and why does he now >sell a video tape of this as a demonstration of his theory of magnetisim? I don=B4t know. I have not seen it yet. I can give no comments on it thus.. Also I believe, that his theory might be wrong.... But his bigger motors have some overunity effects ! > >Why did Mr. Newman react so strongly when I described my testing and the >results I measured? Mr. Newman is of the opinion it's important to his= theory. > He is a backyard inventor ! :) >In another post, Mr. Hartmann wrote: > >>What is inside the 2 coils ? A rotating magnet ? > >No sir, nothing at all. Please re-read the posts on this experiment. > >Mr. Newman claims that this demonstration shows a larger magnetic field >is created sooner, and with less energy by the larger coil that is >produced by a smaller coil, it apparent violation of conventional theory. > >First, two batteries drive the smaller coil, and a crude gaussmeter shows Just a gaussmeter or also something else inside the coil like a small magnet who turns around ??? >the intensity, and rate of magnetic field production. > >Next, the same two batteries are connected to a far larger coil, and the >gaussmeter indicates a higher field intensity, in less time than was the >case for the smaller coil. This apparently violates conventional theory, >and indeed it appears to, until the current, voltage, and magnetic field >levels are all measured. > >When this is done, no evidence for Mr. Newman's effect remains based on my >direct testing. This addresses Mr. Newman's stated theory only, and not >his motor. I have no direct experience with the motor, only the two coil >demonstration, and the claims Mr. Newman makes about the effects shown. Right, I guess the theory is wrong and I urge you to=20 study the motors ! The motors are more important than that coil testing ! Maybe Newman is foccussing still on a wrong theory to hide the right theory behind his motors to protect himself because he has not yet got a patent. > >>If you use the big constant back current pulse (0.4 Amperes during 60= msec) >>flowing back to the battery versus the small constant amount of current >>going into the coil (20 mA during 31msec), >>then you can see, that: > >>with a CONSTANT DC battery voltage of 150 Volts the energy coming out=20 >>of the coil is indeed 4 times bigger than the input energy during ONE=20 >>360 degree rotation cycle of the magnet. > >>So you do NOT need any power factors ! Pure DC ! View the scope readings ! > >Swithing a DC supply to an inductor is not pure DC, due to the L/R time >constant effects. =20 Have a look at my WEB site at the 2 pics: http://www.overunity.de/newov1.gif and=20 http://www.overunity.de/newov2.gif This will show you, how it could be measured via pure DC conditions over one cycle ! This shows, that indeed 4 times the energy comes out of the motor ! regards, Stefan. BTW, I have updated my Newman pages due to the big thread over here, so I urge everybody to have a look at my WEbsite first, before claiming anything=20 over here... http://www.overunity.de -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 21:10:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA10207; Wed, 1 May 1996 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Zachary DeAquila To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: magnetron steam engine? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Bill beaty's home pages there is a (moderately humorous) document describing how to turn a normal engine into a steam engine by replacing the spark plug with a magnetron in order to vaporize steam... said document claims overunity performance for such a device. Has anyone built one? How well does it perform? does it generate enough energy to keep 'sparking' ? In thinking about it, all the energy is derived from the (semi explosive) pressure change due to the phase change of the water. But is it enough? I have visions of a magnetron-based steam chamber venting into a Tesla-style turbine engine.... --Zachary PS: This is all the more interesting to me now that gasoline is up to $1.25/gal ! ...water would be much cheaper... From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 21:13:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11479; Wed, 1 May 1996 21:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605011753.TAA06761@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Mr. Hartmann's comments. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Mr. Hartmann wrote: > >>Just to test one or two single coils without a rotating magnet and without >>a machanical switching commutator is ridicolous ! It does not make any >>sense at all.... > >Then sir, why did Mr. Newman product the demonstration, and why does he now >sell a video tape of this as a demonstration of his theory of magnetisim? I don=B4t know. I have not seen it yet. I can give no comments on it thus.. Also I believe, that his theory might be wrong.... But his bigger motors have some overunity effects ! > >Why did Mr. Newman react so strongly when I described my testing and the >results I measured? Mr. Newman is of the opinion it's important to his= theory. > He is a backyard inventor ! :) >In another post, Mr. Hartmann wrote: > >>What is inside the 2 coils ? A rotating magnet ? > >No sir, nothing at all. Please re-read the posts on this experiment. > >Mr. Newman claims that this demonstration shows a larger magnetic field >is created sooner, and with less energy by the larger coil that is >produced by a smaller coil, it apparent violation of conventional theory. > >First, two batteries drive the smaller coil, and a crude gaussmeter shows Just a gaussmeter or also something else inside the coil like a small magnet who turns around ??? >the intensity, and rate of magnetic field production. > >Next, the same two batteries are connected to a far larger coil, and the >gaussmeter indicates a higher field intensity, in less time than was the >case for the smaller coil. This apparently violates conventional theory, >and indeed it appears to, until the current, voltage, and magnetic field >levels are all measured. > >When this is done, no evidence for Mr. Newman's effect remains based on my >direct testing. This addresses Mr. Newman's stated theory only, and not >his motor. I have no direct experience with the motor, only the two coil >demonstration, and the claims Mr. Newman makes about the effects shown. Right, I guess the theory is wrong and I urge you to=20 study the motors ! The motors are more important than that coil testing ! Maybe Newman is foccussing still on a wrong theory to hide the right theory behind his motors to protect himself because he has not yet got a patent. > >>If you use the big constant back current pulse (0.4 Amperes during 60= msec) >>flowing back to the battery versus the small constant amount of current >>going into the coil (20 mA during 31msec), >>then you can see, that: > >>with a CONSTANT DC battery voltage of 150 Volts the energy coming out=20 >>of the coil is indeed 4 times bigger than the input energy during ONE=20 >>360 degree rotation cycle of the magnet. > >>So you do NOT need any power factors ! Pure DC ! View the scope readings ! > >Swithing a DC supply to an inductor is not pure DC, due to the L/R time >constant effects. =20 Have a look at my WEB site at the 2 pics: http://www.overunity.de/newov1.gif and=20 http://www.overunity.de/newov2.gif This will show you, how it could be measured via pure DC conditions over one cycle ! This shows, that indeed 4 times the energy comes out of the motor ! regards, Stefan. BTW, I have updated my Newman pages due to the big thread over here, so I urge everybody to have a look at my WEbsite first, before claiming anything=20 over here... http://www.overunity.de -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 21:14:48 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA12019; Wed, 1 May 1996 21:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605011758.TAA06777@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman pages updated ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I just have updated my Newman pages again. Now there are many new pics and circuit diagrams on there ! It is a MUST look for those who are discussing the Newman case over here. There are now also the 2 pics, who show the overunity effect of 4 times the energy out than in. Have a look: http://www.overunity.de regards, Stefan. P.S.: I also updated the Magnetic Wankel motor page. I will try to build now such a motor ! -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 21:23:11 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA12794; Wed, 1 May 1996 21:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605011808.UAA06823@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Apology/Newman test circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >If your gyrotron theory is correct, this circuit should allow you to directly generate excess energy without the need for a magnetic rotor. If so, all you need to do is to use a small motor to turn the commutator and the excess magnetic field thus generated by the trapped gyrotrons will provide excess energy into the output capacitor. > > Just with a coil it will NOT work. You have to use a permanent magnet inside the coil ! IMHO, due to my study work on the Newman machines only this gives overunity performance ! regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 21:50:06 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA16014; Wed, 1 May 1996 21:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318741B1.8D5@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mr. Soule: I suspect that clever gentility is all you have to offer. You say that Mr. Newman "has already proved the validity of his technology," so it should be very simple for you to either accept or decline -- WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION OR QUALIFICATION -- participation in the evaluation program I have offered. Use two words: "We accept," or "We decline." Your answer does not have to be via this forum, but can be made directly to me via henry@introtech.com. If you accept, one of my colleagues will prepare a preliminary ATP and protocol for your review and comment. $500k is a lot of money -- but my one percent of VALID Newman technology would be worth a lot more. I can show you $500k. Can you show me a Newman machine that "works" in accordance with the standards of good science? And remember, Mr. Soule, as a businessman with a potential stake in the future of Newman technology, I WANT YOU TO SUCCEED! Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 21:59:34 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA18985; Wed, 1 May 1996 21:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:48:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3187422D.4CB9@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The difference between PRINCIPLE and APPLICATION X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > I don't want you to "believe" anything. For those who have availed > themselves of the facts of the history of Joseph Newman's struggle to bring > this technology forward: the facts speak speak louder than any "belief." Please provide one set of facts, without interpretation, that define or prove SUPPRESSION of working Newman technology. Henry From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:03:17 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA20296; Wed, 1 May 1996 21:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Reply from Joseph Newman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ________________________________________________ The Following Has Been Written by Joseph Newman: April 30, 1996 Bob Shannon's comments exemplify why I do not waste my time with ________ at my Life's Work. Shannon wrote to Mr. Soule on 4/10/96: "You responded with the observation that the time to reach maximum magnetic field strength was shorter for the larger coil than it was for the smaller coil. Unfortunately this effect has nothing to do with the coil." That statement is totally FALSE! Science presently teaches in NO uncertain terms that (In Essence): "It is known that the magnetic field from a larger coil will be larger than a small coil, but it will take a LONGER period of time for the larger magnetic field to form from the larger coil; therefore, you use more Power and gain nothing." Bob Shannon called me several evening ago and when I jumped down his throat he admitted and repeated: "Mr. Newman, you are absolutely correct . . . Mr. Newman, you are absolutely correct." The demonstration I gave on February 5, 1996 proved I was correct and that what Shannon agreed was taught, was WRONG. Shannon also told Mr. Soule, [who gave Mr. Shannon his fax number for this purpose], that Shannon would fax his credentials and information about the company for which he worked. As of this date he has not done so. Who I am and what I teach is published in my book --- The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman --- and in many VHS tapes documented by credible scientists and the national news media. [It is easier to take "pot shots" at other credible people like Dr. Hastings rather than to thank Dr. Hastings and numerous other credible scientists for their efforts and to study (master) the material presented in my book.] [paraphrased] Said credible scientist such as Dr. Hastings deserves respect from _________. I say again I am offended by such cowardly ____________. Why don't all of you [who believe me to be incorrect] take me up on my challenge in New Orleans, Louisiana? People like ____________ won't dare read my Life's Work and see that numerous credible individuals verified that the voltage and current spikes were IN PHASE on my invention at sweep time on scope at 50MS/cent. In addition, at only the very fast sweep time the RF Power was seen imposed also. The Chief Chemist for Ray-O-Vac --- after witnessing my invention --- stated: "Our D.C. batteries would not be producing RF Power, therefore, it must be coming from Joseph Newman's invention." Note that the current and voltage taken at 50MS/cent. showed a negative current spike from the large coil at the commutator break every 180 degrees and simultaneously showed the battery voltage RISE for the same exact period of time, and that both the voltage rise and the current negative spike are shown in phase. Also, the input current is so low from the battery into the large coil that the input current stays on the ground position of the scope. One has to do this to keep most of the large negative spike from the coil on the screen of the scope. The scope easily proves that there is more power from the large coil than from the battery into the large coil. All of this and much more is detailed in my book. But ___________ people like _______________ dare not read and MASTER my Life's Work. No, they do as ___________ always do: they take _____________. I say again for all such ____________ : group together as I have always seen ____________ do and take me up on my challenge in New Orleans, Louisiana. I am not afraid. Why are you? Those people who have truth in their heart will know that I speak truth and that I have every right to ask this honest request. My 31 years of fighting for the advancement of Humanity deserves better than "pot shots" from anyone claiming to have scientific credibility. Joseph Westley Newman My telephone number: (601) 947-7147 My address: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________________________ Edited by Evan Soule From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:09:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA21012; Wed, 1 May 1996 21:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 21:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: USPTO X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Henry: I have seen no evidence that there's anything wrong at the USPTO... Reply: Thank you for your comment. I would assume that one would agree that just because you haven't yourself seen evidence that there's anything wrong at the USPTO doesn't mean that this is the case. I know of others who would most readily state that there are serious "wrongs" at the USPTO. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:16:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA21404; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Two coil test. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > >>>If both current and voltage are measured while the fields reach their >>>maximum values, it is clear that Mr. Newman's claimed effect does not >>>exist. Nothing beyond the bounds of conventional theory are shown in >>>this demonstration, and the support for Mr. Newman's theory is not >>>present. > >And Mr. Soule responded: >>________________________________ >>REPLY: It most certainly does exist and is present. And if one understands >>Joseph Newman's technology then this becomes self-evident. >>________________________________ > >No sir, in my opinion and direct testing, all effects described to date have >been reproduced (including the larger coil reaching a higher magnetic field >intensity, in less time than a smaller coil) and fully shown to be due to >conventional theory alone. > __________________________________ Reply: On the above-mentioned subject of "conventional science," I refer you to the "Reply from Joseph Newman" of April 30, 1996. Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:19:57 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23237; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: re: two coils demonstration X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >I wrote: > >>Mr. Newman has compounded his error in not accounting for the L/R time contant >>in calculating the input power of the small coil by repeating his mistake >>again >>with the larger coil. This clearly shows the level of Mr. Newman's >>confusion on >>this matter. > >Mr. Soule responded: >>____________________________ >>Reply: Your opinion. (And you're entitled to it although Joseph Newman >>would most emphatically disagree with you.) Suggest you read his book on >>this subject. >>____________________________ > >This is not a matter of my opinion sir, but of accepted conventional theory. ______________________________ Reply: See Joseph Newman's Reply of April 30, 1996 for his comments about your understanding of convention theory. Evan Soule ______________________________ Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:22:16 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23727; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Henry Eisenson wrote: > >> Evan Soule wrote: >> > >> > it is with some degree of will power that I do not PUBLICLY >> > present on this Forum a wide variety of explicit and challenging anatomical >> > and biological suggestions for Mr. John Fields to undertake. >> >> We all appreciate Mr. Soule's gentility. I, for one, think it's likelier >> that Mr. Fields could actually perform your anatomical script than Mr. >> Newman could prove the validity of his "invention." >> >> Henry >> >-------- >Thank you, Mr. Eisenson, for your astute observations. > >I, for one, would be reticent to undertake any of the suggestions Mr. >Soule might proffer, inasmuch as I am not not now, and never will be >interested in his body. > John Fields >-------------- > Reply: I find it curious that John Fields would even "think" that my above comments had anything to do with an interest (of John Fields) in "my" body. Or perhaps the confusion is due to Mr. Fields' implicit use of the word "his" above --- which might, in fact, mean that Mr. Fields is referring to the "body" of Mr. Eisenson. I would imagine that there are those who will appreciate knowing that Mr. Fields will be keeping such "interests" to himself. Thanks! Best wishes, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 ______________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:29:22 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA24213; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman's offer. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>From Mr. Newman's theory: > >>>Now, conduct another test with 5-gauge copper wire which has a resistance >>>of .3133 Ohms for 1000 feet. However, to equal the same resistance as in >>>15-A above, one must now use 3,348,000 feet of 5-gauge wire with a massive, >>>total weight (of atoms composed of gyroscopic particles moving and >>>traveling at the speed of light, i.e., the mechanical essence of Einstein's >>>Equation of E=mc^2) of 335,469.6 lbs. or 16.77 tons. Such wire is turned >>>into a coil with a 10-foot interior diameter and 8.32-foot height. This >>>structure would have approximately a phenomenal 90,000 turns of 5-gauge >>>(copper atoms). If 100 volts were now connected to coil 15-B, then a >>>current flow of approximately 95MA could occur with a total power input of >>>9.5 watts and a resulting, phenomenally larger magnetic field of 23.7 Gauss >>>or 1,905 times larger for coil 15-B than for coil 15-A, and 116 Joules of >>>energy stored in the magnetic field of Figure 15-B. This represents a >>>phenomenal 8 millions times more energy than in the 40-gauge coil of 15-A. >> > >My reply to this: > >>Completely wrong. In this case, the time to full magnetic field strengh >>is far far longer, and so, much much more power is stored in the magnetic >>field, not the same 9.5 watts claimed. This error is indefensible. > >Mr. Soule's response: >__________________________________ >Reply: Once again, you fail to understand the nature of Joseph Newman's >technical process. As in the case of the larger coil in the 2-Coil >demonstration, the time to reach maximum magnetic strength is SHORTER than >in the smaller coil. This is very significant. >__________________________________ > >Mr. Soule, it is not necessacery to read the depth and breadth of Mr. Newman's >life work to see the clear error in calling the steady state power the "total" >power. > >If Mr. Newman's book contains material relevant to this apparent error, you >should provide it, and not ask us to buy the book to address these issues, as >this list server is intended for those with a heavy experimental background, >and not to promote Newman Energy Products' products. ___________________________________ To Bob Shannon: I have not asked you to "buy" the book. I have asked you to "read" the book. Whether you choose to "buy" it or endeavor to obtain it from the library system (as others have done) is YOUR choice. Evan Soule ___________________________________ > >Yes, I agree that the two coil test shows the larger coil reaching maximum >magnetic strength in a "SHORTER" time then the smaller, but you must >recognise that this IS DESCRIBED BY CONVENTIONAL THEORY WHEN THE CURRENT OVER >TIME DELIVERED BY THE BATTERIES IS MEASURED AND ACCOUNTED FOR. ___________________________________ To Bob Shannon: See Reply of Joseph Newman, April 30, 1996. Evan Soule ___________________________________ >Issues thought to be valid by an apparent majority have not been addressed >with the possible exception of self serving promotion of your commercial >products. ___________________________________ To Bob Shannon: This is untrue, Sir. I am presenting the technology (intellectual innovtion) which Joseph Newman has developed --- whether you choose to agree with it, disagree with it, have further developments with respect to it, or study it further and endeavor to construct your own prototype --- this is your choice. And whether I choose to respond to it, elaborate upon it, digress upon it, expand upon it, or simply ignore it --- this is my choice. Evan Soule ___________________________________ > >Clearly this is a violation of the intent of this list server. As you often >like to cite apparent violations of the rules, you must also respect their >intent. > >Mr. Newman's offer of debate fails to address this list server community, >and therefore I suggest the venue be changed from New Orleans, to this forum. >A panel of judges should be recruited from the membership and representatives >of Newman Energy Products. ___________________________________ To Bob Shannon: Joseph Newman offer stands. You can accept it or reject it. If you wish to modify it you are free to state your modification to Joseph Newman directly, one-on-one. Otherwise his offer stands. You know how to reach him, directly. Evan Soule ___________________________________ Evan Soule (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman may be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:38:35 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA24861; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3187CD1F.4ED1@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Apolopy/Newman test circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------75374C5573A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for the re-sent. Seems some mail readers don't like long lines. Greg Watson --------------75374C5573A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Newman1.txt" Mr. Joseph Newman Newman Energy Products Dear Mr. Newman, I submit the following direct to your private e-mail and to the freenrg-l group for your consideration: NEWMAN/WATSON TEST CIRCUIT #1 Diode D1 Diodes D3-D6 \ | (Full wave bridge) --------->|----x-O Newman Coil | / | | <--O--------x-----------x | --|-O | / \ + | Battery | | | \ / \|/ ------- | | _ \ --\ --/ Load --- | | / \/ /|\ / \ Resistor ------- | | \_/\ - / D3 D4 \ + --- | | _ | x x-----x-------- - | | | / \/ |\ D5 \ / | | | | | \_/\ | \ --\ | / | | | / | \|/ /|\ ------- \ | | / | | | | --/ / D6 --- \ --------|<---x-|--O | | / \ / / | \ / | \ | <--O-------x-----|-----x | | ---O | | | ^ ------------------x-------- Diode D2 ^ High Voltage ^ Capacitor Newman Commutator This test circuit can be easily added to any Newman Motor to trap and measure the back EMF generated when the commutator opens. Diodes D1 and D2 STOP any energy flowing back into the battery and allow the full wave bridge to transfer maximum coil energy into the storage capacitor. The load resistor will allow back EMF power to be measured via a simple E x I calculation. You have always maintained that the key to the technology is the extra energy generated by the trapped gyrotrons and the larger than expected magnetic field thus generated. This circuit should show more power being dissipated in the load resistor than being drawn from the battery. As diodes D1 and D2 stop charging currents flowing into the battery, the battery power used can be measured without the problems associated with the very electrically noisy, fast rise time back EMF pulses. The diodes used should have a ultra fast recovery time of <50Ns or they will consume some of the fast rise time back EMF energy. If your gyrotron theory is correct, this circuit should allow you to directly generate excess energy without the need for a magnetic rotor. If so, all you need to do is to use a small motor to turn the commutator and the excess magnetic field thus generated by the trapped gyrotrons will provide excess energy into the output capacitor. Believe me Mr. Newman, I want your technology to be real. I want to see a future filled with clean energy. I to, like you, have searched for this goal, for too...too many years. Been there, done that. I know the temptations of rounding your results to favor your theory. Of repeating a test many times to get the highest/lowest result we seek. We are all human. But I have learned that physics is a harsh mistress and it is only by learning, listening and never closing our minds to the truth, to the possibility of getting it wrong, that the goal we all seek can finally be found. Please don't reject my suggestions, they are yours to use as you see fit. I place them into the public domain. Try the circuit, report the results. Lets get this group back to investigation and experimentation. I apologize to Mr. Evan Soule for my earlier remarks. If your technology really works, then you deserves full praise and all the financial rewards it may bring you and your organization. We are not here to destroy or steal your technology. You do have friends here. Critical friends, who understand physics, electronics, magnetics, marketing, who will back you, we only ask for some solid results that we can get our collective brain power into. Remember, None of US is a smart as ALL of us. Some of us have actually been down the road you travel, maybe you have been further, maybe not. Lets travel it in company. I seek nothing financial from you Mr. Newman. My help and experience is yours for the asking. All we seek is a open two way conversation, with respect shown by BOTH sides. May the gods of physics shine on you and your gyrotrons. Sincerely, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting --------------75374C5573A2-- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:39:05 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA25569; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:27:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605012202.XAA25144@mail.eclipse.co.uk> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: ah8341@eclipse.co.uk To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A test circuit has recently been posted to this group by Greg Watson. Care would be needed in its use as several diode elements are used to block various current flows. Diodes are extremely complex beasts. Even in simple DC terms there is a significant voltage drop across a diode that may distort results. Avalanche breakdown may occur in the reverse direction given any largback emfs. The Newman machine is said to produce high frequency components within its windings. AC effects because of the diodes inherent non-linearity are even more complex. Even with a single frequency component harmonics will be produced. With two or more components any amount of intermodulation and mixing products may be produced. Doubtless the circuit may be worth an experiment, but interpreting the results could get even more messy! Of course just a step-function switching DC will produce a wide spectrum of high frequencies, (witness light switch clicks on radios!), the newman commutator must do so. Such would legislate against a 'scope flat-trace all the time. I am positive about Newman devices and hope something comes of it. Just worried that the 'baby will get thrown out with the bath water" Alan Hooppell From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:45:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA27217; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605012220.PAA13052@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: How to Catch a "Tiger" by his Tale. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 08:47 AM 5/1/96 -0700, you wrote: >"How To Catch a Tiger by his Tale." > > snip >As this list server is intended for those with a heavy experimental background, >and you have implied that Mr. Newman apparently takes no stock in the issues >raised, then as Mr. Newman's representitive here, why are you on freenrg-l? > >As Mr. Newman has shown himself less than receptive to experimental evidence >against his personal views, posting his number here is not in keeping with the >concepts behind freenrg-l, and in my opinion far from a proper response on this >forum. > >Mr. Newman has proven to be verbally abusive to any suggestions of evidence >against his claims, just as Newman Energy Products, in the person of Mr. >Newman himself has stated he will not waste his time addressing "pot shots" >taken at his >lifes work. I object to direct experimental work being called a "pot shot", and >as you so often done, I request an apology. > >To date, the actions of Newman Energy Products has clearly shown a total >lack of dedication to the fundemental concepts of freenrg-l. As Newman >Energy Products is a business, your actions here can only be described as >being of a commercial nature. > >This ongoing situation is effecting the perceptions >others have of freenrg-l as shown below: > >>I applaud your interest in moving past the Newman Motor discussion. I >>have been shadowing the group for a few weeks and was about to cancel >>when I ran across your post on NMR. > >With this being the case, I suggest one of several actions be taken: > >1. Newman Energy Products should apologise to the readership of freenrg-l, >and begin to address the issues raised on this forum with technical discusions, >experiments designed to test and resolve the issues raised here, and cease >insisting that we read Mr. Newman's book, or subject ourselves to Mr. Newman's >verbal abuse in response to experimental data to address the issues raised >by your postings here. > >2. Failing item 1 above, moderation may be in order to restate the emphisis >on experimental data over pure theory intended for this forum, and, > >3. If item 1 is not satisfied, that the readership vote that Mr. Soule >withdraw from freenrg-l for repeated violations of the intent and function >of freenrg-l, by means of commercial abuse. > _____________________________ I hate to suspend anyone but I definitely agree that the conversations here have run their course, barring any new real response to real world data, such as Greg Watson's diode setup. The easiest solution is to let the hound dog go to sleep on the rug. >In my personal opinion, any failure (on our parts) to address this ongoing >issue is dammaging to the "intellectual honesty" and credibility of our list. > I agree and I disagree. I think we can agree to disagree. I frankly agree with your assessment of Newman's work, I admire your attention to detail in dealing with the issues, and I also admire you effort here to reach closure. You have dealt with this Newman stuff with amazing integrity and patience and I have the same feeling as you that there is not the corresponding patience on the Newman side to address with new effort and new thought the fundamental and honest issues which you and many others have raised. I also believe that you have given Newman/Soule the keys to putting whatever they do have on a solid footing, in effect, you have given them a lifeboat, which they are looking at as a hostile battleship. You have given them about $20k in free consulting, in my estimation, which if they acted on it would yield value to them far greater. Thus, I support your contention that their motive may really be JUST TO SELL BOOKS, regardless... ____________________ >Again, we have a stated dedication to direct, objective experimental work >and wish to uphold a degree of professionalisim so far absent in the actions >of Newman Energy Products on this forum. This dedication prevents us from >establishing scientific fact on the basis for public opinion, as Mr. Barnum >often attempted to do, and Mr. Newman suggests. > >If Newman Energy Products will not uphold the tennants of this forum, then >this is not the proper venue for Newman Energy Products to conduct business. > >Bob Shannon. > _________________________ Let's simply at this point ask the forum to let the hound dog sleep unless it's willing to step up to the Eisonson Challenge - 500k. It is a NO LOSS SITUATION FOR NEWMAN. The idea of Free Energy being the moderator for the challenge is very interesting but naturally Eisenson would have the predominant say in this. Let us then pursue that idea and thread and ignore all others. Let us at this point simply wait for a response from Soule/Newman on this challenge and let us respond only to that point. If they reject it, then it is pointless for Soule to remain active on this listserv and we could ask them to "resign". I personally have no objection to Soule "lurking" and even commenting as long as there is no further posting which ends up extolling the need to buy Newman's products. Telling people that they are ignorant of the facts and need to read a source is a good rhetorical move in classical debate style, but it ain't necessarily so and like you, I can getting tired of rereading that point. I think Soule will realize that there are a lot of other people on this listserv, including myself, who have things to sell which we could conveniently mention in every post but which we almost never do (I did once several months ago, but that was that). For Soule's benefit, I could mention my study on transmutation of radioactivity, available for dinero, my webpage services, availabe for big dinero, which every free energy enthusiast needs to purchase to communicate to the world through, etc. etc., but it just is not appropriate almost all of the time. I think Shannon is correct in complaining that you do it a lot, probably more often than you think. Our wonderful fence-sitting moderator, Bill Beaty, is probably waiting for a lot of you other people on the list to weigh in on this. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 1 22:48:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA27720; Wed, 1 May 1996 22:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 22:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605020223.WAA29282@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Two sides to every viewpoint. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mr. Soule wrote: >A number of individuals have directly responded to me regarding the various >posts about Joseph Newman's technology --- individuals who are sincere and >truly curious about the technology. These individuals have indicated that >they plan to read Joseph Newman's work and understand the technology for >themselves. One individual just recently informed me that he obtained his >copy of the book via the intralibrary loan. I applaude his initiative and >his willingless to make an effort via his library system to obtain the >information for himself. It would appear that others would rather complain. I suppose you don't recall my discussing this with your over the phone? >Per my original notice, I have made a post that a "FREE" copy of the >lastest Wiring/Construction Diagram is available for anyone wishing to send >a SASE. A number of individuals have availed themselves of this opportunity >and will hopefully build their own prototypes. Maybe I should have "sold" >the Diagram to "meet your commercial expectations." Mr. Soule, if the internet had a blinking neon font, I'm quite sure you would be using it in your advertisements of Mr. Newman's address and phone number. Sales are not the only commercial actions, and as Director of Information, I'm quite sure you are fully aware of this. >I would recommend that if you choose to use the words "stated dedication to >direct, objective experimental work..." you should consider changing your >phraseology to "stated dedication to direct, 'absolute-subjective' work..." >to be more precise. Oh please Mr. Soule, where in the transcripts of this thread have I been less than objective? Was I more, or less objective when I tested the two coil demonstration than Mr. Newman was when he concluded I must be a "god damn liar" when I began to tell him of my testing? Despite many questions raised, you seem to maintain that Mr. Newman's technology is proven, even while you clearly fail to understand the significance of the issues being raised. Is this objective on your part sir? (I had written:) "As Newman Energy Products is a business, your actions here can only be described as being of a commercial nature." (And Mr. Soule responded:) >This is your opinion, Bob Shannon. I happen to believe it to be wrong. I >have posted a number of posts which had nothing to do with "commercialism" >--- as you would have others believe. To date sir, it has had nothing to do with direct experimentation, and everything with spreading Mr. Newman's word. What do you call this? Around here, we call it promotion, which is a commercial act. >As Joseph Newman stated in his CHALLENGE AND STATEMENT: >"He (Evan Soule) informed me last night that a number of individuals --- >who had never taken the time or honesty to read my Life's Work --- were >taking "pot-shots" at what he had posted on the internet. >Evan sent me copies of some of the "pot-shots" and these individuals were >consistently stating FALSE information --- exactly as I had found years >earlier before I originally published my energy machine Book in 1984." >Joseph Newman did not mention that you --- Bob Shannon --- (by name) was >taking "pot shots" at him. But if you are taking it personally, one could >interpret this to mean that YOU actually feel you were. So by testing the two coil demonstration, I was not being curious, but was actually shooting in the dark, hoping to find fault? I see. >I find your comment about "verbal abuse" particularly interesting. If >anyone has a claim to being subjected to "verbal abuse" it is myself. Some >of the verbally-abusive, insulting comments specifically directed at me to >date are: (list deleted for length) I have openly objected to the question of fraud being raised here, and have tried to be helpful and respectful in this exchange. I'm impressed with Mr. Newman's apparent clairvoyance in this matter, but question his judgement in apparently holding me responsible, and taking me to task for these acts of verbal abuse directed at you. >I extend my sincere appreciation to those individuals on the Forum who have >responded privately to me with words of encouragement and support for >Joseph Newman's work. It is for you and people like you that Joseph >Newman's efforts are directed. As opposed to those who might have valid technical questions, or who might have found evidence Mr. Newman does not wish to hear, nor waste time by addressing? Please Mr. Soule, take note of Mr. Watson's actions here, and his excellent recent posting. Please understand no one here decided to attack you. We only asked questions, and raised points with the documentation posted. I don't feel these issues have been addressed in a manner appropriate for this list server. If Mr. Newman were to convince us, he would gain far more from our support than the cost of the time involved. The only risk we present is that we might find problems instead. >From my reading of the messages here, it might be that a vocal majority feel that Newman Energy Products' behaviors on freenrg-l to date have not been in keeping with the concept of this forum. This ongoing situation is having a negative effect on this forum. My sincere hope is that this will change, and that meaningful technical discourse will replace the past exchanges, and that the freenrg-l members will be viewed as a resource rather than as a nuisance. Make of us what you will Mr. Soule, within the clear bounds and intent of this forum. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:17:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA27079; Fri, 3 May 1996 02:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 02:53:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31886C7B.5551@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Apology/Newman test circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >Greg Watson wrote: > >If your gyrotron theory is correct, this circuit should allow you to > >directly generate excess energy without the need for a magnetic rotor. If > >so, all you need to do is to use a small motor to turn the commutator and > >the excess magnetic field thus generated by the trapped gyrotrons will > >provide excess energy into the output capacitor. > > > > Just with a coil it will NOT work. > > You have to use a permanent magnet inside the coil ! > > IMHO, due to my study work on the Newman machines > only this gives overunity performance ! > > regards, Stefan. Stefan, Thanks for the post and your comments. If the magnet is needed thats OK. What the circuit should do is to prove that excess energy is being generated by the coil. This is what Mr Newman has always claimed as the basic for his work. It should not matter wheather the excess energy is converted into rotary torque or back charging battery currents as an excess magnetic field is still required. The full wave bridge will trap the back EMF and allow easier measurements of performance. How is the German spring? I remember many trips to West Berlin. Regards, Greg Watson From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:28:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA28108; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605020931.LAA08313@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GW´s Newman test circuit will not work ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >NEWMAN/WATSON TEST CIRCUIT #1 > > Diode D1 > Diodes D3-D6 > \ | (Full wave bridge) > --------->|----x-O Newman Coil > | / | | <--O--------x-----------x > | --|-O | / \ > + | Battery | | | \ / \|/ > ------- | | _ \ --\ --/ Load > --- | | / \/ /|\ / \ Resistor > ------- | | \_/\ - / D3 D4 \ + > --- | | _ | x x-----x-------- > - | | | / \/ |\ D5 \ / | | > | | | \_/\ | \ --\ | / > | | | / | \|/ /|\ ------- \ > | | / | | | | --/ / D6 --- \ > --------|<---x-|--O | | / \ / / | \ / > | \ | <--O-------x-----|-----x | | > ---O | | | > ^ ------------------x-------- > Diode D2 ^ High Voltage > ^ Capacitor > Newman Commutator > > >This test circuit can be easily added to any Newman Motor to trap=20 >and measure the back EMF generated when the commutator opens.=20 >Diodes D1 and D2 STOP any energy flowing back into the battery and=20 >allow the full wave bridge to transfer maximum coil energy into=20 >the storage capacitor. The load resistor will allow back EMF power=20 >to be measured via a simple E x I calculation. > > Sorry Greg, but this way it will not work ! The load resistance together with the High Voltage Capacitor will be the "almost only" load the battery will "see". So there will be going almost all current into the D3-D6 bridge, but almost no current into the coil ! The coil resistance is pretty high, around 20 to 100 KOhm ! SO the trick is: *Replace each diode D3-D6 with a DIAC (Varistor) in series with a=20 high voltage diode !* Then it opens only, when a high BACK EMF voltage spike=20 (much higher as the battery voltage) appears ! You have to specify the DIAC this way, that the threshold voltage is about twice as high as the battery voltage ! So as there are now 2 DIACs in series at the bridge, the back EMF has to reach first four times the battery voltage to open its gate to the RC load ! Also you MUST HAVE a rotating magnet inside the coil, otherwise it will not induce additional EMF when the commutator switch is opening ! And this is the overunity energy, which comes from the rotating magnet inducing BACK EMF when the commutator opens ! But anyway Greg, your idea was pretty good. With this modification above, it should be now possible to get useful DC power out of the Newman machines. I would like to see this done on Newman=B4s first big motor.=20 There it should really give a few Watts pure DC output power. (at least, if you use additional LC filtering after the DIAC-Diode -Bridge= !) Maybe I will try it myself soon when I have more time and get my old Newman stuff from downstairs back into my lab..... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:28:33 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA28439; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605020932.LAA08319@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Newman overunity proof X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >________________________________________________ >The Following Has Been Written by Joseph Newman: > >April 30, 1996 > >Note that the current and voltage taken at 50MS/cent. showed a negative >current spike from the large coil at the commutator break every 180 degrees >and simultaneously showed the battery voltage RISE for the same exact >period of time, and that both the voltage rise and the current negative >spike are shown in phase. > >Also, the input current is so low from the battery into the large coil that >the input current stays on the ground position of the scope. One has to do >this to keep most of the large negative spike from the coil on the screen >of the scope. The scope easily proves that there is more power from the >large coil than from the battery into the large coil. Exactly this you can see, if you have a look at the diagram in the pic at my WEB site: http://www.overunity.de/newov2.gif Please Bob Shannon concentrate now on this fact and let me know your comments about this. This exactly shows, that 4 times the energy comes out of the coil than is put into it. Please DO NOT concentrate on Newman=B4s theory anymore and try to explain this data from the REAL motor ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:31:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA27611; Fri, 3 May 1996 02:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 02:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3188713C.5F0D@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ah8341@eclipse.co.uk wrote: > > A test circuit has recently been posted to this group by Greg Watson. > Care would be needed in its use as several diode elements are used to > block various current flows. Diodes are extremely complex beasts. > Even in simple DC terms there is a significant voltage drop across a > diode that may distort results. Avalanche breakdown may occur in the > reverse direction given any largback emfs. > The Newman machine is said to produce high frequency components within > its windings. AC effects because of the diodes inherent non-linearity > are even more complex. Even with a single frequency component > harmonics will be produced. With two or more components any amount of > intermodulation and mixing products may be produced. > Doubtless the circuit may be worth an experiment, but interpreting the > results could get even more messy! > Of course just a step-function switching DC will produce a wide > spectrum of high frequencies, (witness light switch clicks on > radios!), the newman commutator must do so. Such would legislate > against a 'scope flat-trace all the time. > > I am positive about Newman devices and hope something comes of it. > Just worried that the 'baby will get thrown out with the bath water" > > Alan Hooppell Hi Alan, Thanks for your input on the Newman Test Circuit. Your are correct in several of your observations and I will attempt to address them: Forward voltage Drops: Should not be a problem as most diodes drop around 0.7 to 1.5 volts. As the Newman Motors work with voltages in the range 100-2000 volts the errors induced by the 1 volt drops across the diodes is <1%. Non-linearity of forward conduction: Also should not be a problem as this only occurs as the diodes switch their conduction state. As we are dealing with fast rise time, large voltages, the diodes should go through their conduction curves very fast and generate only small harmonics. Reverse breakdown: The diodes will need to be chosen to match the machine. Several diodes in series may be needed at voltages in excess of 4-5Kva. My circuit is NOT a working model. Engineering will be needed to match the circuit to the task. To get clean results will require many manhours of work. Nothing is ever as simple as a circuit diagram. That is what keeps engineers, engineers. By all means, Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Lets all use this group to assist in the development of the Newman Testing Process. Regards, Greg Watson From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:33:07 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA00541; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605021301.IAA13201@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Reply from Joseph Newman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > >All of this and much more is detailed in my book. But ___________ people >like _______________ dare not read and MASTER my Life's Work. No, they do >as ___________ always do: they take _____________. > >I say again for all such ____________ : group together as I have always >seen ____________ do and take me up on my challenge in New Orleans, >Louisiana. I am not afraid. Why are you? > > >Edited by Evan Soule > I don't understand: Why all the "_______" ???? Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:34:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA29088; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The difference between PRINCIPLE and APPLICATION X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Evan Soule wrote: >> >> I don't want you to "believe" anything. For those who have availed >> themselves of the facts of the history of Joseph Newman's struggle to bring >> this technology forward: the facts speak speak louder than any "belief." > > >Please provide one set of facts, without interpretation, that define or >prove SUPPRESSION of working Newman technology. > >Henry O Henry: I refer you to pages 336-344 of the book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman. Best regards, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman can be reached at: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:36:13 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA00847; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605021328.IAA19932@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: How to Catch a "Tiger" by his Tale. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >Let's simply at this point ask the forum to let the hound dog sleep unless >it's willing to step up to the Eisonson Challenge - 500k. It is a NO LOSS >SITUATION FOR NEWMAN. The idea of Free Energy being the moderator for the >challenge is very interesting but naturally Eisenson would have the >predominant say in this. Let us then pursue that idea and thread and ignore >all others. > [snip] > >Our wonderful fence-sitting moderator, Bill Beaty, is probably waiting for a >lot of you other people on the list to weigh in on this. > Yes, I agree. This whole discussion is going overboard. I am one of the first subscribers to this list. I have enjoyed most of it, up to now. Recently my mailbox has been filled with the Newman/Soule arguments, counter-arguments etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. Only one or two postings so far on this subject have been of any real use to me. If this continues I will have to unsubscribe, and I don't want to do that! I have been studying physics since 1968. That isn't my whole life but it's about 2/3 of it. I have read Mr. Newman's book and many other books. I have a good grasp of what they all have to say. I have my own theories about what is occurring in Mr. Mewman's device, which I am sure he cannot accept as they disagree with his theory. So I'll shut up on that subject. Let's discuss some other things! I have at least a few parts accumulated and set aside in boxes (none are complete yet) for the following devices - Kromrey generator, Bedini device, Brandt/Tesla switch, Swiss-ML converter, Bearden's "Final Secret of Free Energy" device, Perrault's device, and probably a couple others I've forgotten about. What say you to these? Have any of you had any experience with them? Which boxes should I dump? Which should I continue to fill? Where can I get a copy of "The Sea of Energy" by T. Henry Moray? Hoping to start some new threads, Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:37:06 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA00147; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605021249.FAA01175@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Reply from Joseph Newman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: 5/2/96 You wrote: snip >Note that the current and voltage taken at 50MS/cent. showed a >negative current spike from the large coil at the commutator break >every 180 degrees and simultaneously showed the battery voltage RISE >for the same exact period of time, and that both the voltage rise and >the current negative spike are shown in phase. Please forgive these simple musings of an old saw bones. But, if the voltage rises and the current is negative simultaneously, E and I are 180 degrees out of phase, the power factor is zero and there is absolutely no real power. It's all reactive. No doubt, this is some new physics that you have discovered and are now sharing with the group. Since you now have decided to share your knowledge, please elaborate. Sincerely, RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:42:12 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA28722; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Mr. Soule: > >I suspect that clever gentility is all you have to offer. > >You say that Mr. Newman "has already proved the validity of his >technology," so it should be very simple for you to either accept or >decline -- WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION OR QUALIFICATION -- participation in the >evaluation program I have offered. Use two words: "We accept," or "We >decline." Your answer does not have to be via this forum, but can be >made directly to me via henry@introtech.com. If you accept, one of my >colleagues will prepare a preliminary ATP and protocol for your review >and comment. > >$500k is a lot of money -- but my one percent of VALID Newman technology >would be worth a lot more. I can show you $500k. Can you show me a >Newman machine that "works" in accordance with the standards of good >science? > >And remember, Mr. Soule, as a businessman with a potential stake in the >future of Newman technology, I WANT YOU TO SUCCEED! > > >Henry O Henry: Thank you for your kind words of support. Joseph Newman's STATEMENT AND CHALLENGE stands. If this is acceptable, I believe you know how to contact Joseph Newman directly to indicate your agreement. If not, then you can certainly either ignore his Challenge or discuss it with him. With gentility in mind, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:39:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA29396; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Two sides to every viewpoint. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Mr. Soule wrote: > >>A number of individuals have directly responded to me regarding the various >>posts about Joseph Newman's technology --- individuals who are sincere and >>truly curious about the technology. These individuals have indicated that >>they plan to read Joseph Newman's work and understand the technology for >>themselves. One individual just recently informed me that he obtained his >>copy of the book via the intralibrary loan. I applaude his initiative and >>his willingless to make an effort via his library system to obtain the >>information for himself. It would appear that others would rather complain. > >I suppose you don't recall my discussing this with your over the phone? ______________________________ To Bob Shannon: No, I don't recall your indicating on the telephone that you "plan to read Joseph Newman's work and understand the technology" for yourself. But if in fact this is the case, I glad to learn of it. Evan Soule ______________________________ > >>Per my original notice, I have made a post that a "FREE" copy of the >>lastest Wiring/Construction Diagram is available for anyone wishing to send >>a SASE. A number of individuals have availed themselves of this opportunity >>and will hopefully build their own prototypes. Maybe I should have "sold" >>the Diagram to "meet your commercial expectations." > >Mr. Soule, if the internet had a blinking neon font, I'm quite sure you would >be using it in your advertisements of Mr. Newman's address and phone number. > >Sales are not the only commercial actions, and as Director of Information, >I'm quite sure you are fully aware of this. ______________________________ To Bob Shannon: A "FREE" copy is a "FREE" copy. Simple. To what other "commercial actions" are you referring? Evan Soule ______________________________ > >>I would recommend that if you choose to use the words "stated dedication to >>direct, objective experimental work..." you should consider changing your >>phraseology to "stated dedication to direct, 'absolute-subjective' work..." >>to be more precise. > >Oh please Mr. Soule, where in the transcripts of this thread have I been >less than objective? Was I more, or less objective when I tested the two >coil demonstration than Mr. Newman was when he concluded I must be a "god damn >liar" when I began to tell him of my testing? _______________________________ To Bob Shannon: Once again, I would suggest you use the words "....have I been less than 'absolute-subjective?'" All knowledge is subjective. The question is: is it "absolute-subjective" or "relative-subjective" in nature? Evan Soule _______________________________ > >Despite many questions raised, you seem to maintain that Mr. Newman's >technology >is proven, even while you clearly fail to understand the significance of the >issues being raised. Is this objective on your part sir? _______________________________ To: Bob Shannon: No, "absolute-subjective". Evan Soule _______________________________ > >(I had written:) >"As Newman Energy Products is a business, your actions here can only be >described as being of a commercial nature." > >(And Mr. Soule responded:) >>This is your opinion, Bob Shannon. I happen to believe it to be wrong. I >>have posted a number of posts which had nothing to do with "commercialism" >>--- as you would have others believe. > >To date sir, it has had nothing to do with direct experimentation, and >everything with spreading Mr. Newman's word. What do you call this? Around >here, we call it promotion, which is a commercial act. ________________________________ To: Bob Shannon No. There have been a number of posts I have issued describing experiments relative to the Joseph Newman Motor/Generator. These had nothing to do with "commercial act(s)." Evan Soule ________________________________ Very sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Joseph Newman can be reached at: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:39:26 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA29709; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Project Rainbow (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 17:56:54 -0600 >From: Mike McLaren >To: billb@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Project Rainbow > >Hi my name is Mike McLaren I am a Physicist from Calgary Alberta >Canada.I am trying to locate any information on Einstein's Unified >Field Theory or other information on Project Rainbow. I you have any >leads please contact me at our home page > >www.lexicom.ab.ca:80/~steadystate "Zur Einheitlichen Feld-Theorie" is the alleged "unfinished/incomplete/missing" paper. See "Sitzung der physikalisch-mathematischen" by Von A. Einstein Klasse vom 10. Januar 1929. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:42:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA01208; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31886625.18882171@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Closing the loop of the Newman device. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 23:19:19 -0400 >From: bshannon >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Closing the loop of the Newman device. > >>Rectifying, the output into DC, and smoothing, before feeding back to >>the input, should eliminate this problem. Or to completely satisfy Mr. >>Newman, use the output to recharge one battery, while running from >>another, and doing extra work as well. By regularly exchanging >>batteries, it should be possible to run the motor indefinitely, and >>the skeptics would be satisfied, when the extra work done, exceeded >>the initial content of the two batteries, when new, by a large margin. > >Again, assuming that excess energy is being produced by the Newman >invention, if we then use some of thsi excess power to close the >loop and run the device, we may be altering some quantum vacuum >topology currently unknown, and this may quench the flow of any >excess energy. Then let's see this happen. > >As current conventional theory does not describe such processes, we >cannot say that this is, or is not a reasonable theroy. Precisely the reason why experiments are carried out. > >As Mr. Newman has stated this cannot be done, it's unfair to ask him >again and again to do what he has said he cannot do. As you will note upon careful examination of my original posting, I actually took this into account by suggesting an experiment using two batteries. One driving the device, while the other gets recharged by the device. If the driving battery should run down, then it can be exchanged with the battery that was being recharged. (The recharging BTW would be done with a normal mechanical DC generator, mechanically coupled to the Newman motor). > >The energy that "recharges" the batteries is in the same circuit as >the energy input, so seperating this would produce a quite different >device. Part of the energy output is purported to be electrical indeed, and to recharge the driving battery. The function of this current, in the above proposed experiment, is to prolong the time that the device can be driven by one battery, such that the other is given ample opportunity to be recharged by the dynamo. > >On the subject of recharging batteries, lets assume we puch ten watts >into a lead acid battery during the charge cycle. I presume you mean 10 joules in the above. > >How much of these ten watts can we expect to extract after the losses ditto. >due to the heating of the electrolyte and chemical actions? > >If you guess ten watts, your in for a disappointment. The energy input ditto. >while charging vs. energy stored is not even close to being equal, so if >100% of the energy input to a Newman motor was returned in the back current >pulse, the device wil still grind to a halt due to the inefficiencies in >charging the batteries. Your intent is nevertheless clear, and I grant you that no battery will deliver as much energy as is used in charging it. However, you can not categorically state that this device will grind to a halt, without actually trying it out. It may indeed make use of principles which we do not yet thoroughly understand (or at all). > >Now, would you giess that a rechargable lead acid battery would return 50% >of the energy used to charge it? Much closer. Yes I believe I have seen such a figure elsewhere. However, no proper measurement has been done to the best of my knowledge, on the electrical output of the Newman motor. This *may* (in the absence of any good measurement) exceed more than twice the consumed power. Hence, allowing said device to run essentially without depleting the battery. However, should this not be the case, then one can still continue with the battery exchange, as originally intended. > >A common rechargable NiCad cell is rated at a charge current of 35 ma at 1.25 >volts, and charges for 10 hours to reach full capacity. > >We have 1.25 x .035 x 10 = 0.4375 amper hours of total energy input. I believe this is watt-hours, not ampere-hours (you have multiplied by the voltage as well). > >Sadly, this same cell is only rated at a maximum capacity of 280 maH. Given your error above, it is not clear whether this factory spec. is indeed in mAH, or in mWH. > >So .28 / .4375 = .64 So this particular cell is only 64% efficient as a >energy storage device. It is therefore not clear whether or not the percentage calculation is correct. > >Now we must account for the energy used to produce this cell, and to dispose >of it once it's no longer functional. This too is true, however some rechargeable batteries can be cycled up to 1000 times. Given this consideration, it is very possible, that if the Newman energy device actually works, that the cost of recycling the batteries would only be a minor consideration. Especially as recycling ought to cost less than the manufacture from raw materials (when exploration and mining are taken into consideration). > >How many more times the input power would have to be returned to this cell >in order to overcome the recharge inefficiency, energy cost of production and >reclaimation of this cell in order for it to compete with any other energy >source? A larger consideration, is of course, that it is the science that is of real importance here, not the specific implementation. Once the science is understood, (and if there is anything new present), then it should not be difficult to find a way of avoiding batteries altogether. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:52:04 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA01585; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:30:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Zachary DeAquila To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Newman Debacle X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Could those discussing Newman Machines please limit their discussions to technical matters and explanations and dispense with the argumentative discourse that threatens to overwhelm the list? IMHO, if a technical question about the workings of said machine is raised, the correct response is to either answer with an equally technical argument or don't bother to answer at all. Specifically, I think that Mr. Soule's responses of 'read the book' have done nothing but lengthen the arguments here by contributing essentially nothing to the technical discussion. As I understand it, this list is for technical discussion. I have yet to see Mr. Soule present *any* technical information to the list - he seems instead to be acting as PR manager and general Newman advocate (zealot?), refuting all anti-Newman claims without backing up his arguments with technical detail. --Zachary From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:44:02 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA02057; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TACHYON (Gyroscopic Particle?) GRAVITY FIELDS X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: From: ralph.hartwell@emachine.com (Ralph Hartwell) Organization: The Energy Machine Information System 504-733-8380 To: josephnewman@earthlink.com _________________________________________ Note: The views expressed herein may or may not represent the position of Joseph Newman and, as informational material, are provided here from submissions by other individuals interested in the technology _________________________________________ THE POSSIBILITY OF INTERACTION OF TACHYON GRAVITY FIELDS IN THE NEWMAN MOTOR AND OTHER ENERGY RELEASING DEVICES USING MOVING MAGNETS Copyright 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1996 by Ralph M. Hartwell II 715 Jefferson Heights Avenue Jefferson, Louisiana, USA, 70121-1110 1-504-733-9281 ABSTRACT - Rotating magnet Newman Motors exhibit a variation in the power output which seems related to the physical position of the magnet when compared to the earth's surface. Various tests are tried to determine the reason for this behavior. It may be connected to the interaction of the motor and the tachyon field described in the Shielding Theory of Gravity. Other machines which release energy in excess of 100 percent of the input energy may also utilize tachyon power in the manner described in this paper. INTRODUCTION - Testing various Newman Motors which have a permanent magnet rotor revolving about a horizontal axis has revealed that there is a periodic variation in the power output of the motor during the rotational cycle of the magnet. This variation has been noted in several of Mr. Newman's units, especially in the 9000 Lb. unit. Other experimenters have also reported the same effect in the Newman Motors that they have constructed. The variation in output power was first noticed during low speed operation of the 9000 Lb. (4100 Kg.) motor which was running at about 30 revolutions per minute. The variation is less pronounced at higher operating speeds, although it is is still observable. At higher speeds the effect appears to be swamped to some extent by the greater power available at higher operating speeds. This anomaly was first noticed when it was observed that the lamps which were connected to the motor appeared to light more brightly when the North seeking pole of the rotating magnet was moving from an upright vertical position towards a horizontal position. At the same time, the sparking at the commutator of the motor increased greatly. When the position of the rotating magnet is reversed by 180 degrees, the effects of this variation are reversed, the lamps light more dimly, and the commutator sparking decreases. EXPERIMENTAL TESTS - At first, these observations were dismissed as being caused by excessive mechanical tolerences in the construction of the motor; however, when this same effect reappeared in other Newman Motors, it could not be ignored. Attempts were made to insure that the construction and mechanical balance of the motor was correct. Next, the effect of variations in the commutator was investigated. Several different commutators were constructed and tested. In addition, the commutator was physically rotated by 180 degrees to see if errors in the commutator would affect the results. Following this, the voltage to the motor was reversed as well. All these tests showed that the observed output variation remained fairly constant regardless of the adjustments made to the motor. The motor was initially placed so that the magnet was rotating in a plane parallel to the earth's magnetic field, that is, in a North - South direction. Because of this placement, it was suspected that there might be a some interaction between the earth's magnetic field and the magnetic field from the rotating magnet in the motor. In order to test this hypothesis, tests were performed on a smaller version of the Newman motor, since the 9000 Lb. (4100 Kg.) machine could not easily be moved. The motor was rotated around the vertical axis by 90 degrees so that the magnet was now rotating in a plane perpendicular to the earth's magnetic field, that is, in an East - West direction. Changing the plane of rotation did not result in any obvious effect on the observed variation. The motor was then further rotated about the vertical axis by an additional 90 degrees, so that the motor was now turned a full 180 degrees from its starting position. This additional rotation also had no effect on the variation in output. Since the tests indicated that the greatest output from the motor occurs when the North seeking pole of the rotating magnet is pointing in a direction away from the surface of the earth at the time of maximum output, we must look for a possible explanation which allows for this positioning. JOSEPH NEWMAN AND HIS THEORY- In the Shielding Theory, energetic particles are assumed to fill the space in the universe which traditional theory considers to be empty. In Joseph Newman's theory, these particles are the fundamental building blocks of all matter, and may be released from that matter as useful energy under the right conditions. Mr. Newman believes that these gyroscopic particles (his terminology) which make up magnetic fields, are spinning at the speed of light and are also traveling at the speed of light. These particles have the behavioral properties of gears, which will either mesh smoothly if they are rotating in opposite directions, or will clash violently and bounce away from each other if they are spinning in the same direction. Mr. Newman considers that these particles make up the atoms of the wires of the coil in his motor. These gyroscopic particles are spinning in random directions. When a pulse of voltage is applied to the coil, some of the particles are forced to align their spin axis with respect to the voltage flow. If the voltage is shut off before it can travel to the other end of the coil, the current will be trapped in the coil. As the aligned particles attempt to return to their original positions, the interaction of the trapped voltage and the spinning particles results in some of the particles being deflected at right angles to the wire and emitted as electromagnetic energy. The deflected particles leave the wire permanently, and are lost from the atoms of the wire. If these gyroscopic particles behave in this manner, then over some extended period of time, the mass of the copper contained in the coils of an operating Newman Motor will decrease. However, at any reasonable power level, it would probably take many years for a measurable mass loss to occur. A speculative question here - how would the mass loss manifest itself? Would there be a decrease in the total number of atoms in the coil (which might result in a "spongy" form of wire as individual atoms disappear at random) or would each atom simply become lighter in weight? Would the release of these particles in a Newman Motor be detectable through ordinary means? There would likely be no radiation by-products in the presently understood sense, as Mr. Newman considers the reaction which releases the energy to be sub-nuclear in operation, which should not release any radioactivity. There are those who say that for the motor to operate as Mr. Newman says it does, it must emit some radiation. Mr. Newman states that the motor actually does release radiation, but it is in the form of electromagnetic energy. HYPOTHETICAL CONSIDERATIONS - Now let us consider the possibility that at least some of the energy released by the Newman Motor originates outside the motor, that is, from "empty space." The Newman Motor as well as other devices which operate with the use of moving magnets may release energy from tachyons in the following manner: Tachyon particles are spread throughout the universe are in constant random motion, moving in different directions (and possibly at different velocities), and possessing different directions of spin, which we may consider to be either left or right handed. Regardless of the direction of their travel, the net spin at any point in space may be solved mathmatically to show that there is only left or right hand spin at that point. As these particles travel through the body of the earth, they lose some of their energy, resulting in geothermal heating of the earth. The energy loss is selective, so that the right handed spin particles may lose more energy than the left handed spin particles. (The spin direction assumed here is only for purposes of discussion.) The selective absorption of the energy is caused by the interaction of the tachyons and the atoms making up the mass of the earth. The amount of loss of energy by the tachyons depends on the direction of spin each particle possesses. The passage through the earth results in what may be considered to be a sort of "polarization" of the tachyons as they emerge from their passage through the earth. If this "polarization" is real, then it follows that the net tachyon field in the universe should have a bias in the same direction since many of the tachyons will have passed through solid matter sometime during the course of their travel. This "polarization" effect occurs in one direction for normal matter, and in the reverse direction for anti-matter. The averaging of the field as the tachyons travel throughout the universe would result in a neutral field at any point in space - except near a massive object, such as the earth. Now let me propose another idea. Magnetic fields do not actually exist, but instead are only an effect we observe when the tachyon field is distorted by atoms having a specific type of distortion. An object, whether it is a piece of steel or a copper wire, may have its atoms distorted so as to cause a deflection (rather than an absorption) of the tachyons passing through its mass. Copper and other materials which we normally consider to be non- magnetic in nature have their atoms distorted when voltage is applied to them. Materials such as steel and iron may have a permanent distortion induced in their atoms if they are placed in a sufficiently powerful distorted tachyon field. These materials will have a permanent distortion of their atoms induced in them. They will then be able to cause their own tachyon field deflection if the initial field is removed. We call these things permanent magnets. The sense or polarity of the secondary field will be the opposite of the initial field. This causes what we observe as an attraction between the two masses creating the fields. The distorted tachyon field is always trying to reduce itself to the smallest possible size, just as an inflated balloon tries to squeeze into the smallest possible volume. If two of these distorted fields interact and align themselves so that the distortions have the opposite polarities, ("North" to "South") then they will try to combine and neutralize each other so reduce the distorted field to the minimum volume. We see this effect as a strong magnetic attraction between the two objects. Note that if the energy of the tachyon field is absorbed, heat would be released; if the field is deflected, we observe the result as an apparent magnetic field.) When this deflection of the tachyon field occurs, the result is an unevenly distributed force acting on certain types of nearby objects which are within the distorted field. Only some kinds of atoms are affected, namely those which may easily be distorted by the deflected tachyon field, such as iron, steel, and so forth. TACHYON FIELD ENERGY RELEASE IN THE NEWMAN MOTOR - As the tachyons emerge from the earth, they are in a "polarized" state caused by their passage through the earth. They then encounter the deflected tachyons which make up the magnetic field surrounding the rotating magnet combined with the field generated by the coil in the motor. Since these emerging tachyons are spinning, they will interact with the tachyons in the motor's magnetic field in a manner similar to spinning gears (as stated in Mr. Newman's theory). Some of these tachyons from outside the motor will be deflected into the magnetic field and thereby be available to do useful work in the motor. The more strongly the motor is able to interact with these external polarized tachyons, the more energy will be released. Mr. Newman uses rapid, sharp pulses of voltage to drive his motors. He feels these pulses create the optimum conditions for the release of the gyroscopic energy (tachyon energy?) in his motors. EXPLANATION OF THE OUTPUT ENERGY VARIATION - When the spin of the outside tachyons are opposite to the spin direction of the particles from the motor, they will mesh smoothly, and their energies will add, resulting in an increased power output from the motor. When the magnet in the motor reverses its direction relative to the earth, the particles will be spinning in the same direction, and they bounce away from each other, resulting in a decrease in the energy produced. PROPOSED EXPERIMENTS TO TEST THIS HYPOTHESIS - Several tests may be performed to verify or disprove the hypothesis stated in this paper. It should be possible to operate a Newman Motor so that the axis of rotation of the magnet is in a vertical direction. That position should result in no variation in the machine's output since the direction of the tachyons emerging from the earth would be at right angles to the magnetic field from the machine. As an alternative, it may be possible to fly an experiment in space. A Newman Motor should be operated sufficiently distant from the earth that the shielding effect of the earth is reduced to a very small value. At this location, the output from the motor should be constant if the hypothesis is correct. CONCLUSIONS - This paper is not meant to discredit Mr. Newman's theories, but simply to search for the truth. Energy production by his motor may be by the process he describes, or a combination of methods. A better understanding of the processes at work will be needed to fully exploit his motor or, for that matter, any of the various devices which appear to release energy from tachyon fields. SELECTED BIBLIOGRAPHY 1) "The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman", Joseph Wesley Newman, Evan Soule' Jr., ed., Newman Publishing Co., Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, Mississippi, 39452. (1984-1995) 2) "Theory of Energy Shielding As a Cause of Gravitational Effects", Hans Nieper, M.D., Boden-Mensch. No. 14 (1972) German, translated to English. 3) "Annex to the shielding Theory of Gravity - Perisolar Gravity Field of a Different Kind (Perisolar Gravity Cushion Theory)", Hans A. Nieper, M.D. Copyright 1987-1996, Ralph M. Hartwell, II _________________________________________ Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 _________________________________________ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:44:00 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA02411; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605021850.UAA09790@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron steam engine? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >On Bill beaty's home pages there is a (moderately humorous) document >describing how to turn a normal engine into a steam engine by replacing >the spark plug with a magnetron in order to vaporize steam... >said document claims overunity performance for such a device. >Has anyone built one? How well does it perform? does it generate >enough energy to keep 'sparking' ? > >In thinking about it, all the energy is derived from the (semi explosive) >pressure change due to the phase change of the water. But is it enough? > >I have visions of a magnetron-based steam chamber venting into a Tesla-style >turbine engine.... > Yes, I agree, the microwave transducer motor looks good, but who knows if it really produces overunity ?? WHo has build this prototype ? I just got a video tape called: It runs on water. There is Stanley Meyer shown, having invented a Hydrogen splitter from plain water which he uses directly to jerk Hydrogen into the combustion chamber of a car motor. So the Hydrogen is produced on DEMAND and it needs less power (RF- pulsing high voltage instead of huge current) to generate the electrolysis ! regards, Stefan. > --Zachary > >PS: This is all the more interesting to me now that gasoline is up to $1.25/gal ! > ...water would be much cheaper... > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 03:55:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA03221; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605021855.UAA09811@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New better Newman test circuit ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_831095204==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I am attaching to this mail a new NEWMAN energymachine GIF pic with a few advanced features ! The use of a bridge with 4 DIACs and 4 high voltage DIODEs can be usefull to extract the back EMF pulses as a DC output. Sorry for the crude drawing, but I had no good vector drawing program and only a few minutes time to do it... 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MJ99JJT1NYYH0L`W+L*K6T`J-CPH38L9`[.WHIO22^5`+^28,S?`+":J6R@^T M3@\1)]`'"?"6KDP!E28"WU!$4$D)3XD)`ZCM$"G0KD2GY`L4,^S+YM#^,J<( M:>S_"E&@N@]AQ.P.KR/[-O'X:N_L9`U4-#`+N0\7244.79`.OZX+N>G]]`B\ M9HW<*L\#Y2UJ?#$`%XW7)$\55]$#":_4[A"QDO#'B`HF;([5]N^:A%&3W/"[ MC.<:X^_SR'#N7M$GS@MS""L4W5$1JQ',HD-A,M$8URX(:3`:^VD>=N<;5VH! M-R4@]_&MC&T2;(RE!C)H])$@9 Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: GW´s Newman test circuit will not work ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_831094890==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>=20 >> >NEWMAN/WATSON TEST CIRCUIT #1 >> > >> > Diode D1 >> > Diodes D3-D6 >> > \ | (Full wave bridge) >> > --------->|----x-O Newman Coil >> > | / | | <--O--------x-----------x >> > | --|-O | / \ >> > + | Battery | | | \ / \|/ >> > ------- | | _ \ --\ --/ Load >> > --- | | / \/ /|\ / \ Resistor >> > ------- | | \_/\ - / D3 D4 \ + >> > --- | | _ | x x-----x-------- >> > - | | | / \/ |\ D5 \ / | | >> > | | | \_/\ | \ --\ | / >> > | | | / | \|/ /|\ ------- \ >> > | | / | | | | --/ / D6 --- \ >> > --------|<---x-|--O | | / \ / / | \ / >> > | \ | <--O-------x-----|-----x | | >> > ---O | | | >> > ^ ------------------x-------- >> > Diode D2 ^ High Voltage >> > ^ Capacitor >> > Newman Commutator >> > >> > >> >This test circuit can be easily added to any Newman Motor to trap >> >and measure the back EMF generated when the commutator opens. >> >Diodes D1 and D2 STOP any energy flowing back into the battery and >> >allow the full wave bridge to transfer maximum coil energy into >> >the storage capacitor. The load resistor will allow back EMF power >> >to be measured via a simple E x I calculation. >> > >> > >>=20 >> Sorry Greg, but this way it will not work ! >>=20 >> The load resistance together with the High Voltage Capacitor >> will be the "almost only" load the battery will "see". >>=20 >> So there will be going almost all current into the D3-D6 bridge, but >> almost no current into the coil ! >> The coil resistance is pretty high, around 20 to 100 KOhm ! >>=20 >> SO the trick is: >>=20 >> *Replace each diode D3-D6 with a DIAC (Varistor) in series with a >> high voltage diode !* >>=20 >> Then it opens only, when a high BACK EMF voltage spike >> (much higher as the battery voltage) appears ! >> You have to specify the DIAC this way, that the threshold voltage >> is about twice as high as the battery voltage ! >> So as there are now 2 DIACs in series at the bridge, the back EMF >> has to reach first four times the battery voltage to open its gate to the >> RC load ! >> Also you MUST HAVE a rotating magnet inside the coil, otherwise >> it will not induce additional EMF when the commutator switch is opening ! >>=20 >> And this is the overunity energy, which comes from the rotating magnet >> inducing BACK EMF when the commutator opens ! >>=20 >> But anyway Greg, your idea was pretty good. With this modification above, >> it should be now possible to get useful DC power out of the Newman >> machines. >>=20 >> I would like to see this done on Newman=B4s first big motor. >> There it should really give a few Watts pure DC output power. >> (at least, if you use additional LC filtering after the DIAC-Diode= -Bridge !) >>=20 >> Maybe I will try it myself soon when I have more time and get my old >> Newman stuff from downstairs back into my lab..... >>=20 >> Regards, Stefan. >>=20 > >Hi Stefan, > >Thanks again for the input, > >Your input is correct, but only for a small instance in time. When power >is first applied and the storage capacitor is discharged the diodes (D3-D6) >will conduct (transfer battery power to the capacitor). When the capacitor >has charged to battery voltage the diodes will not conduct and will only >transfer coil voltages that are greater than the battery voltage. Remember >that a bridge rectifier will charge the capacitor (without a load resistor) >to the PEAK of the applied voltage. Well, yes, but if your load is about 100 Ohm or smaller, like a few bulbs or something like this, the diodes will conduct all the time and this way it will not work... Remember, the coil resistance is in the 20 to 100= KOHM range !! > >Maybe we should connect the load resistor after the motor has reached >operating speed. Will reduce the time needed for the storage capacitor to >charge to the battery voltage and reduce battery drain. Well also, this would probably not work due to the low ohmic resistance of the load resistor... Overunity energy can only build up: 1. When there is a high voltage spike occuring from the coil, when it is switched off the battery AND 2. in the same moment a permament magnet still rotates inside the coil and induces EMF. I have drawn a GIF pic with my enhancements and will enclode it as an attachement to this email ! >Good idea Stephan, thanks. > >Please try the circuit on your motors and report the results. Let me know >the max back EMF on your motors and I will suggest some doide types for you >to try. Because of the high frequency nature of arc discharges, please keep >all leads as short as possible. > >Lets make it happen. Okay, as soon as I have some spare time, I will get the Newman stuff from my downstairs storage room and try it, but this could take some weeks, cause I am pretty busy with work these days... > >Greg Watson > Regards, Stefan Hartmann. > --=====================_831094890==_ Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="NEWMDC.GIF"; x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="6D646F73" Content-Transfer-Encoding: x-uuencode Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="NEWMDC.GIF" begin 600 NEWMDC.GIF M1TE&.#EA?`,H`8```````/___RP`````?`,H`0`"_HR/J[_\?BA6T;_82$"PGC9Q"?@9O MY0((,:+$/J?2/;MU;)RS_H3Y%'H\!G*BR)$DZ[R+U[#CJFD;$>YC1L\AQI(T M:]H,PU"ERI`>-?([^1+FS:%$BU8Y.?#NW+ETZ]J]BS>OWKU\^_K]"SBPX,&$ M"R^<:3BQXKD[2SR4NCBRY$\M4SP6.CFS9D:5PM]$7D2+>C#IUFZ7A M6D<]3)JEN=D'5=LN5.OR94OB)*&LL/OJUL/HD#$-6K"AU(Z-;SL/E/LT9%O) M+?\V)?U(9^+.7"8DCCG:5JS(GYL?%'SEB.8GTL>$LCU?]Y;?=WH=+[/\^?U^ M_C:*S8I2;3W)1!YMJ@"8$2>5W:<`@OH@H5.`S7@''GE/Y7=A=?QMF`=3UQU7 M7&TY711BB*:9MM)LGMT7EGLX1#@/:/*`EYQ]&++'88YS^+2/:.*%!Y:/7,'8 MXX\#-JA5D4,F>:01H1GWV8SI%"<>?EK)IF.6=EAH8XV(=<;E=9YY6>5P'S%W M8YK&$#$BC&T>B&*"50*I99VKI4GFF5]^IV=Y2JDI(IY]#@JBG89R&&:>%BKW MWV]`T0CI>QD2*NBAEN:8Z))B1D>@D43"YFESLCG*Y*BA`K?FI2*XF"&KJBJ2 MJ8F;GC:<1:))4UILG+YF8D:Z9I>BF:]VX&I0Q0Z+_ENE]W09TTP$/0JE/EXI M6!^!SL9W[+&2I2J!L))N@".RO"QJ`[E+:+O8E+0$QZ"O(84KKBX>YC"O$^AZ MB&^^^N[+;[_^_@OPOEV@.Y9Z*S;%8Y/Q5J-NN=PJ(1"PPRPB<101)VSNLU^5 MBB:="W],0L2T4#PPG*^1:ZO'F8H%M2Z.-MAO0`XT&9@;3"SHF??U[`VD M56"M>]7S1L%97#1/:X!S/0]8][4UC@_HK@0-Y$$`7+ MN]__Z`&]$(3O!16;4/4LUL`'FF&"%B!A>WXW@^!A\(3WZQ;Y0B@%$XK0!S(< M&1-J!Z$54K"&N^N:MGAH&1C.4`Q`A$`1-3B>).PM9$CRC0N.:`(H.F:(8Y`B M_@%O>"`EZE"#N!#2![)2PGL)T7NCHR`5B;@#*Y8N=-K9XA>-N$%473!8]1MC M%^=8+H>IT7I[;-P-W<@F0**"C4W+']X,BB"$XR93*+Y'0A(3DH0%)=_8P3(:*8POC*$+^^@]/<*2=[/TW"M. 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MJ99JJT1NYYH0L`W+L*K6T`J-CPH38L9`[.WHIO22^5`+^28,S?`+":J6R@^T M3@\1)]`'"?"6KDP!E28"WU!$4$D)3XD)`ZCM$"G0KD2GY`L4,^S+YM#^,J<( M:>S_"E&@N@]AQ.P.KR/[-O'X:N_L9`U4-#`+N0\7244.79`.OZX+N>G]]`B\ M9HW<*L\#Y2UJ?#$`%XW7)$\55]$#":_4[A"QDO#'B`HF;([5]N^:A%&3W/"[ MC.<:X^_SR'#N7M$GS@MS""L4W5$1JQ',HD-A,M$8URX(:3`:^VD>=N<;5VH! M-R4@]_&MC&T2;(RE!C)H])$@9 Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: conny.ohstrom@abc.se (Conny Ohstrom) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: electrostatic motors & pyramids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Ive read a book "The guide to pyramid powers" by Bill Kerrel and Kathy Goggin. the book says: "... A personal accounting of this strange energy comes to us from a story told by Sir W. Seimens, a British inventor. During his visit to the Great Pyramid, while on vacation one year, he had the opportunity to climb to the top of the apex of the Great Pyramid. Accompanied by his guide, he reached the summit and gazed out across the lands of Egypt. At the suggestion of his guide, who told him of a strange effect he might experience, he raised his hands; and, as he spread his fingers, he found that he could hear a distinct ringing sound. He also noticed that when he would raise only one finger, he would feel an irritating prickling sensations in that finger. Then, when he took a drink from the bottle of wine he had brought along, he noticed he would receive a slight shock as the bottle touched his lips. The electrical activity intrigued him to such an extent that he removed a newspaper he had along, wrapped it around the bottle of wine, and, when he wet this newspaper, found that he had converted it to a crude electrical accumulator or Leyden Jar. It would convert the energies emanating from the apex of the Great Pyramid to static electricity. This static field was so strong that, when he held this converted wine bottle above his head, he could cause great sparks of static electricity to shoot from it." Since the strange force around the Great Pyramids can be found around a model of a pyramid with the same angles, then why not try to harness this strange force? To create a pyramid using only metal pipes and wires you can build a model. The height or axis of the pyramid is the radius of the circle. The circumference of the circle is equal to the circum- ference of the square which is the base of the pyramid. if one side of the pyramid is X centimeters, then the height R equals (X*2)/PI. And the rods going from the base to the top is: SQRT((R)^2+(SQRT(2*X^2)/2)^2). The pyramid should be placed so the one face of the pyramid is pointing to the geographical north, and be placed on a CURRY/HARTMAN/LEYDEN-cross that could be found with a dowsing rod. exit --- Dont steal, the government hates competition! Conny Ohstrom; Vita liljans vag 57, 3tr; S-127 34 SKARHOLMEN; SWEDEN; phone: +46-8-978055; Email: conny.ohstrom@abc.se From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 04:01:04 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA04831; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3187FC6A.20E7@introtech.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Henry Eisenson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Solving the Soule equation! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I propose that hereafter, we all simply ignore the Newman issue and posts by Mr. Soule... and I mean TOTALLY. Let this fruitless debate evolve into a monolog, and then (hopefully) into silence. Though drastic, that measure will enable this group to focus upon more likely opportunities. We might even find something that hasn't been suppressed for 30 years by an evil consortium headed by K-Mart! This is intended to be my final public message on the subject of Newman's work. Henry *********************************************************************** (The TRUTH, of course, is that I'm the LEADER of that consortium -- and worry that this forum will enable Mr. Newman's invention to emerge as the saviour of mankind and the end of the blue light special!) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 04:04:58 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA05259; Fri, 3 May 1996 03:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 03:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318975AF.173D@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Stefan, Thanks for the reply. Have looked at your gif file and would like to make the following comments: 1) The diode on the negative of the battery is around the wrong way. You might get away with just one on the positive side of the battery. I suggested 2 as I wanted to isolate the battery and its leads as much as possible from acting like a antenna. As I suggested earlier, I don't believe you need the MOVs. They are not as fast as a good diode. 2) The test circuit should be installed as close as possible to the commutator. Even a few extra cms (inches) of wire could effect the results. Can you post more data on the coil output waveform? What additional physical data can you provide on your motor? On the motor you have, what is the max peak coil voltage? Be aware, that when the coil is isolated from the battery and only drives the capacitor, that very, very high voltages may be present. Would suggest you start with the battery isolation diodes only and then measure the coil voltage with equiptment designed for the 1-25kv range. You can then select the bridge diodes, storage capacitor and load resistor. Would be very interested in a copy of the coil waveform when you have reached this step (After the battery diodes but before the bridge diodes are installed). Hope the German spring is as nice as those I enjoyed in West Berlin. Best Regards, Greg Watson PS: As I am trying NOT to jump too quickly to conclusions, how about using "Newman Test Circuit" as our standard heading and talking about any concerns, problems, suggestions in the BODY OF THE POST. This group is about experimentation, lets try and get back there. PPS: A small point. I have placed MY idea and circuit in the public domain. Now about publishing your gif likewise. Would have been nice to have seen a small statement like "From a Idea by Greg Watson" on your gif. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 11:58:03 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA16364; Fri, 3 May 1996 11:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:52:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3189F8C1.606E@mail.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Stefan, Thanks for the two gifs you prepared. They look VERY interesting and what a pleasant change to get some real data to work with for a change. Would suggest a few changes for future reporting which will help to keep apples as apples. Forget using watts except for steady state DC measurements. Use Joules instead. Not much different. 1 Joules = 1 watt per second. Much better for pulse based systems. Your input then becomes 150v x 0.02a x 0.31sec = 0.93 Joules / rev. Your output then becomes 150v x 0.4a x 0.06sec = 3.6 Joules / rev. Actually the ouput is larger than this as the battery voltage has risen. Can you provide accurate data as to the voltage across the battery during both phases? What we seem to have here is a 400% increase in energy! A increase that should be well outside the margin for experimental measurement error. Stefan, would you please remake the oscilloscope picture. The shape of the negative going edge of the current pulse is not clear. Much data can be obtained from that edge. Use the full frame this time. Very important. It would also be nice to get an enlarged picture of the battery voltage increase as the current pulse developes, say 5v/div @ 200usec/div or whatever it takes to get a 6-8cm vertical change and a 8-10cm horizontal change. Sync on the voltage increase and do a picture for both voltage and current. Should be good. What is the cause of the noise burst between the back EMF current pulses? Best regards, Greg Watson From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 12:05:57 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA17540; Fri, 3 May 1996 11:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Newman Debacle X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 3 May 1996, Zachary DeAquila wrote: > > Could those discussing Newman Machines please limit their discussions > to technical matters and explanations and dispense with the argumentative > discourse that threatens to overwhelm the list? > > IMHO, if a technical question about the workings of said machine is > raised, the correct response is to either answer with an equally > technical argument or don't bother to answer at all. > Specifically, I think that Mr. Soule's responses of 'read the book' > have done nothing but lengthen the arguments here by contributing > essentially nothing to the technical discussion. As I understand it, > this list is for technical discussion. I have yet to see Mr. Soule > present *any* technical information to the list - he seems instead > to be acting as PR manager and general Newman advocate (zealot?), > refuting all anti-Newman claims without backing up his arguments > with technical detail. > > --Zachary ------------ I agree. In an effort to not clutter (And here I am doing it! Sorry, but...) this list with non-technical arguments and flames, I recently invited Mr. Soule into discussion via private email. He accepted, and has since largely exhibited the same behavior in private that he does here, namely using subterfuge and delaying tactics to avoid answering any question he seems to think dangerous. So far, that's been all the questions asked, among which was one which asked, basically, "If you've got an ideal two volt source driving a non-reactive two ohm load, what will be the current flowing in the circuit?". He also seems to be perpetually on the defensive and subscribes to the philosophy that the best defense is a good offense. He executes this philosophy quite well by maintaining a consistently bristling, arrogant attitude while feigning an air of intellectual superiority. Again, I apologize for any abuse of this list on my part, but I thought this "report" would be interesting. John Fields -------------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 12:07:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA17815; Fri, 3 May 1996 11:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 11:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9605031503.AA06508@pipe7> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: mmcnair@usa.pipeline.com (Mike McNair) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: How to Catch a "Tiger" by his Tale. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On May 03, 1996 03:24:37, 'w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup)' wrote: >I am one of the first subscribers to this list. I have enjoyed most of >it, up to now. Recently my mailbox has been filled with the Newman/Soule >arguments, counter-arguments etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. Agree. I am a lurker, hoping to learn from you all who are in the know. The Newman thread was ok for a while, but I really am sick of it from the perspective of gaining what knowledge I can...in fact, I am hoping some day to know enough about a few things that I will be able to contribute. Anyway, there was so much baloney going on that I filtered a couple of people because the posts seemed unreasonable given what had appeared to me originally as an excellent source of information from people who (for example) attempt to create floating styrofoam! What's happened the novelty of discovery on this list? Let Newman go about his business, and if he succeeds then those who knew he would/could tell the rest of us: "I told you so." BTW, as an intro, I work in a prison as a case manager, married with no children, live in western nc, and have a basement full of failed "toys!" Mike McNair mmcnair@usa.pipeline.com From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 12:13:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA18328; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fnrg: Re: Re: The Proof is in the "Pudding" (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 1 May 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > >On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Henry Eisenson wrote: > > > >> Evan Soule wrote: > >> > > >> > it is with some degree of will power that I do not PUBLICLY > >> > present on this Forum a wide variety of explicit and challenging anatomical > >> > and biological suggestions for Mr. John Fields to undertake. > >> > >> We all appreciate Mr. Soule's gentility. I, for one, think it's likelier > >> that Mr. Fields could actually perform your anatomical script than Mr. > >> Newman could prove the validity of his "invention." > >> > >> Henry > >> > >-------- > >Thank you, Mr. Eisenson, for your astute observations. > > > >I, for one, would be reticent to undertake any of the suggestions Mr. > >Soule might proffer, inasmuch as I am not not now, and never will be > >interested in his body. > > John Fields > >-------------- > > > Reply: > I find it curious that John Fields would even "think" that my above > comments had anything to do with an interest (of John Fields) in "my" body. > Or perhaps the confusion is due to Mr. Fields' implicit use of the word > "his" above --- which might, in fact, mean that Mr. Fields is referring to > the "body" of Mr. Eisenson. I would imagine that there are those who will > appreciate knowing that Mr. Fields will be keeping such "interests" to > himself. Thanks! > > Best wishes, > > Evan Soule > josephnewman@earthlink.net > (504) 524-3063 > > Joseph Newman can be reached at: > (601) 947-7147 > Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 > ______________________ Mr. Soule, If, in the future, if you could be more explicit when you pen an insult (I refer to your original entry, above (which, by the way, I'm sure you know violates one of the rules of this forum)) the opportunity for my use of humorous sarcasm to embarrass you would be diminished slightly. However, I am somewhat concerned that this dicussion seems to turning into a thinly veiled flame war (certainly not the purpose of this forum) and am, quite frankly, tiring of your tirade. I know you will feel compelled to answer this reply, but as for me, don't bother unless you have something of technical merit to discuss or you wish to take this to alt.flame. Goodbye, John Fields -------------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 12:29:18 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA19678; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Reply to H. Eisenson X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >I propose that hereafter, we all simply ignore the Newman issue and >posts by Mr. Soule... and I mean TOTALLY. Let this fruitless debate >evolve into a monolog, and then (hopefully) into silence. > >Though drastic, that measure will enable this group to focus upon more >likely opportunities. We might even find something that hasn't been >suppressed for 30 years by an evil consortium headed by K-Mart! > >This is intended to be my final public message on the subject of >Newman's work. > >Henry > > >*********************************************************************** >(The TRUTH, of course, is that I'm the LEADER of that consortium -- and >worry that this forum will enable Mr. Newman's invention to emerge as >the saviour of mankind and the end of the blue light special!) A bit of humor: O Henry: Ah! And to think I suspected it all along! Well, since it is now been disclosed you are indeed the LEADER, perhaps we can somehow work a "side deal" -- and with your power and influence, who knows, maybe the invention WILL BECOME the blue light special!! :-) ----- On another note: Well, despite the controversy, I do believe you are sincere in your interests with respect to the development of "free energy," "over-unity," "E(L)=MC^2" --- or whatever else such a developing technology will be called a century from now. And while it may seem that we have an operational difference of opinion on certain issues, I hope it would be appropriate to say that we do share a common interest in achieving [however we may respectively view this] new energy technology(ies) for humanity. Sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 Joseph Newman can be reached at: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 12:35:26 1996 Received: from mail (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA22380; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Reply to Zachary X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Could those discussing Newman Machines please limit their discussions >to technical matters and explanations and dispense with the argumentative >discourse that threatens to overwhelm the list? > >IMHO, if a technical question about the workings of said machine is >raised, the correct response is to either answer with an equally >technical argument or don't bother to answer at all. >Specifically, I think that Mr. Soule's responses of 'read the book' >have done nothing but lengthen the arguments here by contributing >essentially nothing to the technical discussion. As I understand it, >this list is for technical discussion. I have yet to see Mr. Soule >present *any* technical information to the list - he seems instead >to be acting as PR manager and general Newman advocate (zealot?), >refuting all anti-Newman claims without backing up his arguments >with technical detail. > > --Zachary Dear Zachary: Two points: 1) If you review all the posts, you will see that a number of the postings I have issued included technical information. 2) And, a number of posts have subsequently been issued by others which have helped to clarify points and/or provide additional insights into various proposals posted (by still others) on the Forum. As Andrew J. Galambos, an astrophysicist, once pointed out years ago: the development of a product generally goes through four stages -- 1) Innovation; 2) Education; 3) Advertising; 4) Maintenance. In analogous terms (of temperature) regarding the quality and/or quantity of intellectual property, he labeled Step (1) the "hot" side, and Step (4) the "cold" side. [Obvious illustration: it requires more intellectual effort to forumlate the Maxwell's Equations (Step 1) than to "turn on" a TV set (Step 4).] He described a "barrier" that has existed throughout history between Steps (1) and (2) which he termed the "disclosure barrier." It has been the existence of this "barrier" that has at times contributed to many of the difficulties innovators, directly, (and everyone else, indirectly,) have confronted from time to time. In this sense, a technology geared to "remove" the "disclosure barrier" could contribute to world progress --- especially the progress of technical innovation. Very sincerely, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 12:41:21 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA24167; Fri, 3 May 1996 12:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 12:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605031828.AA26971@cms.uncwil.edu> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Eddie Dunn To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A NEW thread... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi again, I'm back with more dePalma ideas this time a paper. I have never seen this one anywhere on the net or at Keelynet. It is very interesting philosophy to say the least. I am reprinting this without specific written consent but I think Dr. dePalma would not mind spreading his ideas. This paper is a theoretical dissertation based on the Spinning ball in gravitational free-fall and several other experiments, on which I have papers and am in the process of typing up. For now I will present this paper for what it is. I welcome any comment and will try to best of my understanding of his ideas (which I have given considerable thought to) to explain or refine any ambiguities. Thank you for consideration of these ideas. paper to follow... -- Eddie Dunn dunn@sol.cms.uncwil.edu "Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" -Robert Hunter By: Bruce DePalma Simularity A New Theory of Physical Phenomena Introduction: Simularity is a theory of physical phenomena based upon the meaning of perfection. The meaning of perfection expressed mathematically takes the form of the computation of the natural number pi. The Natural Number: The natural number is the result of a real measurement, there is an archetype which characterizes all measurements. The simplest measurement which can be made is the measurement of the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. This ratio is known as the number pi. All scientific theories and reasoning having to do with the real world are based upon measurements. All measurements may be characterized in terms of the archetypal measurement pi. Simply stated, it is the determination of the characterization of this measurement which is the basis of the theory of Simularity. Properties of Pi: Pi is an expression of perfection in mathematical form. It is clear that here we have a number whose value is self-evidently exact and fixed, yet, when we endeavor to ascertain the exact value, we find we are engaged in a computation of unlimited length. In other words, the precise determination of this number is left to the degree of effort we are willing to expend in its computation. Thus we may say, the mathematical definition of perfection is a number whose exactitude is a quality of implicit self definition, yet, in whose computation or apprehension, we find ourselves engaged upon a task of unlimited length. Defect: The number Pi is the result of a measurement we can make as exact as we like; but it is clear that there is an ever ongoing possibility of refinement in this measurement. That is to say, for as many digits we choose to compute pi there is always a remainder -- a portion of the computation yet to be done. We can see that for as many many digits as we choose to compute pi, the remainder can never be reduced to zero. I define the remainder in such a computation as the defect of the computation. This defect is seen to be irreducible which can only be eliminated by an infinite computation. In the performance of real experiments all measurements which are made partake of this defect. The Reality of Defect: Clearly, if all science is based on measurement and all measurements contain implicit defect, then is should be possible to conduct an experiment to elicit this quality explicitly. The Spinning Ball Experiment: In the Present age, we have in Science a situation where measuremets are used in the support of various theories. Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are representative of the sorts of reasonings which depend on the results of experiments for thier exogenesis. This is all well and good, and, if these theories of Reality are dependant upon experiments for their validification, then who can argue with this. The only necessity for the alteration of our fundamental conceptions of matter id the existence of phenomena beyond the degreee of extendability of the theories based on those conceptions. Seen from another aspect, to proceed beyond the degree of extendability of present theories is to do a new experiment; which, in the same stroke, brings into being a new thoery of reality. In general the present day degree of refinement of the conceptualizations of Science, can accommodate all phenomena with one large exception. The Stellar phenomena of "Quasar" cannot be understood without unconscionable extrapolations of present day theoretical understanding. Application of the "Standard interpret- tations" leads to implicit contradictions in the disparity of red shifts and apparent recessional velocities. radiation spectra and distances. These inconsistencies have engendered a general questioning and some sense of unease in the standard interpretations and theories. Although it is sensed something new is needed, that "new generality", has not yet emerged in conventional scientific circles. I submit Simularity as the scientific generality, based on the implicit properties of measurements in themselves, as the concept filling the gap between present ideas and the astronomically observed phenomena. The spinning ball experiment is the critical test for the validification of Simularity. If we consider a spinning material object, we find manifested, within the body of the object the well known forces of centripetal acceleration. These forces are manifested simply by the operation of spinning of the object. Let these forces represent the result of a measurement. If we allow the existence of defect, a real property of the measurement, how might this be manifested? When a spinning object is released to fall under the influence of gravitational attraction, it is found that the spinning object no longer falls with the acceleration known as "g", the gravitational acceleration. The exact results of this experiment, with corroboratory evidence and data are fully presented in a series of papers, refs.: (1) "Antigravity" (2) "The Force Machine Experiment", (3) "The OD Effect -- A New Physical Phenomena", and, (4) "THe OD effect -- Radio Frequency Shift Experiment". What has been shown is that the defect of the manifestation of the forces of centripetal acceleration of the rotational motion, is an inertia- like quality, the OD effect, which has been measured to be proportional to the acceleration of the rotating body of object. THe Quasar and the Radio Frequency shift Experiment: It has been found that the field generated thought the acceleration of a rotating object, the OD field, confers the property of augmented inertia on surrounding material objects. This has been observed in the direct visual behavior of synchronized swinging pendulums (one of which was an energized force machine), ref. (3), and, because of the uniqueness of the behavior, corroberation was attempted in the form of an experiment to alter the tuning of a radio frequency circuit oscillating 106 megacycles. The expected effect did indeed take place with a frequency shift measured to be about 2500 cycles (2.5 parts in 10^5) relative to an oscillator located remotely at a distance of 70 miles and communicated by radio. The details are reported i ref.: (4). The radio frequency shift experiment demonstrates the existence of phenomena, created here on earth, which can alter the frequency of of an oscillating circuit, independent of any electro magnetic interaction. The phenomena of electric resonance is created thought the interaction of inductance and capacitance existing in what are known as lumped circuit elements. As these are real physical objects, we should expect that any field or effect which altered the inertial properties of the materials from which these are made would affect the frequency of vibratory electrical resonance. That this has been shown to be the case only confirms the validity of a theory of reality based upon the properties of measurement. In the Quasar there are alterations in the emission spectra of excited atoms which amount to wavelength increases of a factor of three or more. This is a shifting of the Lyman alpha line of hydrogen (normally occurs at wavelength 1,216 A), in the ultraviolet to 5,341 A in the middle of the visual spectrum (green light) Quasar OH471) This extreme shift of an "expanding universe" after a hypothetical big bang. An alteration in emission spectra of excited atoms, a shift toward longer wavelengths, is a simple consequence of the alteration in the inertial properties of matter produced by an OD field. THe radio frequency shift experiment may not convince all skeptics, however, efforts are in progress for actual duplication of the long wave-length shift of optically excited atoms through the influence of an OD field. Uniform Connectivity: A question which is often asked is what the nature of connection is which connects the diverse phenomena of optically excited atoms, radio frequency oscillations, inertia, and gravity. I call this property Uniform Connectivity, or, -- that which is held in common by all forces, fields, and material events. Uniform connectivity is the property of defect which is part and parcel of all the manifestations the summation of which we call reality. I would like to indicate, without further discussion or interpretations, that uniform connectivity, meditated through the concept of defect (which is intrinsic to the manifestation of reality), disposes of all the traditional paradoxes attendant to earlier explanations of "action at a distance". Conclusion: When Copernicus put forth the assertion that the Earth was not the center of the universe, and that the planets did indeed rotate about the sun, which in turn was then too regarded just as any other star, an enormous amount of dogma and theological interpretation was voided and eventually discarded. What is important is the immense simplification which resulted in the understanding and formulation and scientific interpretations of astronomical and physical events. Rather than accept the nine heavens of Aristotle with the earth at its center, the memorization by wrote reams of dogma, the vast simplification introduced by Copernicus cleared the minds of investigators who could then turn uncluttered eyes to the heavens in the search for the secrets of the universe. The sole importance of a new generality lies in its simplification and rationalization of vast amounts of experimental data. Newton's and Kepler's laws are the summerazation and explicit formulation of a lifetime of observational data. Each new generality must include the sum total of all earlier observation. Only time will tell whether Simularity withstands this test. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 22:37:07 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA11763; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <01BB3937.859157A0@art.xs4all.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Pete To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Useful field simulation software X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3937.8598F8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Have a look at this! It's a very handy tool!! ---------------------------------------------------------- Students' QuickField(TM), formerly known as ELCUT, is minimum cost shareware for field simulation. It solves plane and axisymmetric problems of electrostatics, nonlinear DC magnetics, AC magnetics, current flow, nonlinear heat transfer, stress analysis and coupled problems. QuickField enables you to perform field calculations and obtain various electro-mechanical design parameters in an extremely efficient and intuitive way. After an hour of playing with QuickField, you'll be able to solve rather complicated problem in minutes. http://www.tera-analysis.com ------------------------------------------------------------ L8r, Pete ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3937.8598F8C0 Content-Type: application/x-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjMTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AMQCAAACAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAHoAAAAAAAAAtTvCwCx3EBqhvAgA KypWwhUAAACWjD1K1wnPEaLxAAC0IlIKBIcAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAE11bHRp cGxlIHJlY2lwaWVudHMgb2YgbGlzdABTTVRQAGZyZWVucmctbEBlc2tpbW8uY29tAAAAHgACMAEA AAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABUAAABmcmVlbnJnLWxAZXNraW1vLmNvbQAAAAADABUMAQAA AAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAeAAAAJ011bHRpcGxlIHJlY2lwaWVudHMgb2YgbGlzdCcAAAACAQsw AQAAABoAAABTTVRQOkZSRUVOUkctTEBFU0tJTU8uQ09NAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8B AAAABAAAAAAAAAMMAAAAAwAAMAQAAAALAA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAgwAAAAAAAAC1O8LALHcQGqG8 CAArKlbCFQAAAJaMPUrXCc8RovEAALQiUgqEhgAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAATXVs dGlwbGUgcmVjaXBpZW50cyBvZiBsaXN0IE5FT1RFQ0gAU01UUABORU9URUNIQFhCTi5TSE9SRS5O RVQAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAWAAAATkVPVEVDSEBYQk4uU0hPUkUuTkVU AAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAJgAAACdNdWx0aXBsZSByZWNpcGllbnRzIG9mIGxp c3QgTkVPVEVDSCcAAAACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOk5FT1RFQ0hAWEJOLlNIT1JFLk5FVAAAAwAA OQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAASLjwEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFp bC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAhAAAAVXNlZnVsIGZpZWxkIHNpbXVsYXRpb24gc29mdHdhcmUAiAwBBYAD AA4AAADMBwUAAwAVABwALgAFAD8BASCAAwAOAAAAzAcFAAMAFQAOAB4ABQAhAQEJgAEAIQAAAEFE RTZDOUE0MjJBNUNGMTFBMkYxMDAwMEI0MjI1MjBBABIHAQOQBgBoBAAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAm AAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AOC+Fr8mObsBHgBwAAEAAAAhAAAAVXNlZnVsIGZpZWxk IHNpbXVsYXRpb24gc29mdHdhcmUAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbs5Jr8NpMnmxKUiEc+i8QAAtCJS CgAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAAA4AAABhcnRAeHM0YWxsLm5sAAAAAwAGEFKn 9JgDAAcQhQIAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEhJQUxMLEhBVkVBTE9PS0FUVEhJU0lUU0FWRVJZSEFORFlU T09MLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLVNUVUQAAAAAAgEJEAEAAADrAgAA5wIAAM4EAABMWkZ1hKIsgf8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALy CQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMztwLkBxMCgzQDRRM1QwnwCnQIcHkB wDUgQmTSQwOgQlQCgzUSzBTI3jYC5AhVB7ICgH0KgAjP7QnZOxtvFtA1AoAKgQ2xwQtgbmcxMDMU UAsKQxlRC/EgSGkgB0BshiwKhQqFSGF2ZSAwMiAbAG9rIDAFQHRowQQAISBJdCcEICGwSyGAFqAg EYBuZCNQdLEh4GwhIQqFIOYtJS/vJj8nTye0CoVTFoANsAIwAHMnIFF1aWNrAkYIkGxkKFRNKZQs IAIQcgeAcmwjUFBrbm93A6BhBCBFcExDVVQqsAQACoVtYwuAB3B1bSAFoBPAIP5zEYEH0C3hKsIq wCoyLbDTLSELYHRpAiAuIqEtsM8G8CGABCALUW5lCoUjgV0gMHgEAAbAB4B0BRBjHzBQA2ACYBPg BCBvZiCfKkAFkDHgLYEvUWNzKrApK3BubAuAZQrBREOZLIZhZzCQM5RBQzUavmMIcBtwAjAqwBsA dzPaumg0UHQKhTHgAHFmBJD/KrATwBtwBBEAcAdAE7AEAPsxEwWgdQtQCYAyJy+gKdjfCoUJ8AGg MnAEIHkIYCPB7zBQBJAq0i6VYwdANrAvRH86ZDJQAZALgCMQCsAvcHV7LHYy9S0HgBFxAwA+wSDf DbAAkDVAMFAKwGExwQSQ5wQgQBEDkWV4OZEHgCsw/zyGDdAp8AiQNwExIguAFoCuaS9gIYEuEHkv oEEBgLsaEQORaAhhMrILUXkLgPZnRkBF8GgKhSnYKrA9cfInIFAgYiGRMmE9oi/z3iA48CJQGhEF oG0LUEIB3xPQPHYyNUNiLPF1E9A7sBcgjB7fH+FoAkBwOi+UL3dQcC5DIWEtOfZ+LkuRJL9Sz1Pf J88gm0z2ODlQIIxQQxELRhVhC/AXEeBOVRqRAFnQAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwwPNRwSQ5 uwFAAAgwwPNRwSQ5uwEeAD0AAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAnDk= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB3937.8598F8C0-- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 22:36:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA11961; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605032010.NAA03054@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron steam engine? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: As per the items below, do you recall the post about using blue laser light to split water into hydrogen/oxy? I was going to use ordinary electrolysis to power a vehicle until I wised up about the practicality of channeling so much amperage at low voltage, seemed too inefficient electrically and too expensive in the componants. A blue light laser is probably very expensive, but it is in the right direction of efficiency. I have an old 66 dodge dart available as a test bed. It's great advantage is the big ole simple minded flatbed straight six. Easy running motor and real easy to jury rig. You can get right down into the engine well and hug the motor. At 03:34 AM 5/3/96 -0700, you wrote: >> >>On Bill beaty's home pages there is a (moderately humorous) document >>describing how to turn a normal engine into a steam engine by replacing >>the spark plug with a magnetron in order to vaporize steam... >>said document claims overunity performance for such a device. >>Has anyone built one? How well does it perform? does it generate >>enough energy to keep 'sparking' ? >> >>In thinking about it, all the energy is derived from the (semi explosive) >>pressure change due to the phase change of the water. But is it enough? >> >>I have visions of a magnetron-based steam chamber venting into a Tesla-style >>turbine engine.... >> > >Yes, I agree, the microwave transducer motor looks good, but who knows >if it really produces overunity ?? > >WHo has build this prototype ? > >I just got a video tape called: > >It runs on water. There is Stanley Meyer shown, >having invented a Hydrogen splitter from plain water >which he uses directly to jerk Hydrogen into the combustion >chamber of a car motor. >So the Hydrogen is produced on DEMAND and it needs less >power (RF- pulsing high voltage instead of huge current) >to generate the electrolysis ! > >regards, Stefan. > > > > >> --Zachary >> >>PS: This is all the more interesting to me now that gasoline is up to >$1.25/gal ! >> ...water would be much cheaper... >> >> >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service >Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 >email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de >Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti >Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de > > > > > ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 22:37:39 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA12134; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605032151.XAA13295@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Stefan, > >Thanks for the two gifs you prepared. They look VERY interesting >and what a pleasant change to get some real data to work with for a >change. > >Would suggest a few changes for future reporting which will help >to keep apples as apples. Forget using watts except for steady state >DC measurements. Use Joules instead. Not much different. >1 Joules =3D 1 watt per second. Much better for pulse based systems. > >Your input then becomes 150v x 0.02a x 0.31sec =3D 0.93 Joules / rev. >Your output then becomes 150v x 0.4a x 0.06sec =3D 3.6 Joules / rev. > >Actually the ouput is larger than this as the battery voltage has >risen.=20 Yes, but only a little ! Can you provide accurate data as to the voltage across the >battery during both phases? Well, as I have scanned the data from the book of Mr. Newman I cannot provide additional data on this.. But this is one of the most interesting pages in Newman=B4s book. There are some more tests in there , but this one seems to be the most convincing one ! Unfortunately this test data only occurs in the very big machines of Mr. Newman and not in the smaller ones... There the back current pulse is much smaller ! (But it still exists...!) I will soon have a few more scan up on my overunity web server from my own experiments which also show these back current spikes.... >What we seem to have here is a 400% increase in energy! An increase >that should be well outside the margin for experimental measurement >error. > That is right ! Finally someone is realizing it from this list over here,=20 that there is indeed overunity with this huge Newman motor. >Stefan, would you please remake the oscilloscope picture. The shape >of the negative going edge of the current pulse is not clear.=20 Sorry, this way already almost nonvisible inside the book . Unfortunately the print is not very good with my edition ! >Much >data can be obtained from that edge. Use the full frame this time. >Very important. It would also be nice to get an enlarged picture >of the battery voltage increase as the current pulse developes, >say 5v/div @ 200usec/div or whatever it takes to get a 6-8cm vertical >change and a 8-10cm horizontal change.=20 There is an drawing inside the book of Newman which addresses the battery voltage at this time of the current spike. I will scan it too ! >Sync on the voltage increase >and do a picture for both voltage and current. Should be good. > my last experiments I did in 1988 and from then on it is stored downstairs. And I don=B4t have the space to begin experimenting right now over here in my one room flat ! :( >What is the cause of the noise burst between the back EMF current >pulses? Mechanical Commutator RF bursts... probably due to sparking... > >Best regards, >Greg Watson > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 22:42:21 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA12487; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605032158.XAA13337@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re: F/E in Munich, Germany ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>Dear Bill Beaty >> >>Do you know about any activities in free energy and related topics >>around my living area in Munich/Bavaria/Germany? >> >>Thanks a lot for any reply. >> >>Yours >> >>N.Korschunow >> There is a group called PSITRON. These are 3 people who have designed an N-Machine, which was only about 90 to 100 % efficient, but have spent around 75.000 US$ on it. They have disproved the N-machine. N-machines don't get overunity. It seems that all the work of Bruce de Palma was faulty. He always only measured the incremental efficiency.... The phone number of PSITRON is: Mr. Sawicki at: ++49 (0) 89 - 17 48 60 Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 22:44:13 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA12865; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605032245.AAA13419@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Stefan, > >Thanks for the reply. > >Have looked at your gif file and would like to make the following >comments: > >1) The diode on the negative of the battery is around the wrong > way. Yes, that is right ! Thanks for correcting me ! I will redraw this pic and post it again. I will also add that it was your idea which led me to draw this enhanced version... You know, every time one makes things too quick you forget things or make them wrong or bad... :) > You might get away with just one on the positive side > of the battery. I suggested 2 as I wanted to isolate the > battery and its leads as much as possible from acting like a > antenna.=20 That is right, also this way the voltage that builds up can be divided by two for each diode, so each diode does not need to have a super high breakthrough voltage. >As I suggested earlier, I don't believe you need the MOVs. What are MOVs ? Are this the DIACs ? > They are not as fast as a good diode. Well, there has to be a buildup of a high voltage, otherwise it will not work.=20 Also the negative resistance of the neon tubes used=20 in Newman=B4s motors also are in place with the DIACs... so I bet this would very much help the process... Normal diodes do NOT have a negative resitance=20 when they begin to conduct !! > >2) The test circuit should be installed as close as possible to > the commutator. Even a few extra cms (inches) of wire could > effect the results. Okay, I agree ! But this would only help to rectify the RF. The Newman motor also has a huge DC spike current component ! >Can you post more data on the coil output waveform? Will be soon online ! http://www.overunity.de/newman.htm >What additional physical data can you provide on your motor? Look at the digrams... Have to put them all up soon and also translate the German text... >On the motor you have, what is the max peak coil voltage? let me get back to you on this... I have to check my old notes on this... Was in 1988 ! >Be aware, that when the coil is isolated from the battery and >only drives the capacitor, that very, very high voltages may be=20 >present. Would suggest you start with the battery isolation diodes >only and then measure the coil voltage with equiptment designed for >the 1-25kv range. You can then select the bridge diodes, storage >capacitor and load resistor. Would be very interested in a copy >of the coil waveform when you have reached this step (After the >battery diodes but before the bridge diodes are installed). Okay, will try to do it sometime... Can not say yet when, cause I have a few other urgent projects on schedule... Will try to convince NEWMAN/SOULE to do the test also ! >Hope the German spring is as nice as those I enjoyed in West Berlin. Yes, thanks ! All the nice girls around in Mini-Skirts ! :) :) 8-) >Best Regards, > >Greg Watson > >PS: As I am trying NOT to jump too quickly to conclusions, how about >using "Newman Test Circuit" as our standard heading and talking about=20 >any concerns, problems, suggestions in the BODY OF THE POST. This >group is about experimentation, lets try and get back there. Okay ! > >PPS: A small point. I have placed MY idea and circuit in the public >domain. Now about publishing your gif likewise. Would have been nice >to have seen a small statement like "From a Idea by Greg Watson" on >your gif. > Yes, sorry, I did know I did forget something in the GIF pic ! Not only the wrong diode, but also this sentence... I will post a corrected version with this sentence included ! Stay tuned and thanks for the ideas ! Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 22:45:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA13526; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605032347.SAA11959@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A NEW thread... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >Hi again, > > > I'm back with more dePalma ideas this time a paper. >I have never seen this one anywhere on the net or at Keelynet. Thanks, Eddie, for posting it! I will try to digest it over the weekend. It looks intriguing, what I've read so far. Also just received here copies of 5 patents by Thomas Townsend Brown which I also hope to digest over the weekend. Does anyone have any other papers or articles by T.T. Brown? Zack w9sz@prairienet.org "As I went out in the woods one day Strumming a tune so gaily A little wind in a breeze came by & frooze my ukelele" - Jerry Garcia From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 3 22:47:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA13796; Fri, 3 May 1996 22:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 22:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Newman Debacle X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >On Fri, 3 May 1996, Zachary DeAquila wrote: > >> >> Could those discussing Newman Machines please limit their discussions >> to technical matters and explanations and dispense with the argumentative >> discourse that threatens to overwhelm the list? >> >> IMHO, if a technical question about the workings of said machine is >> raised, the correct response is to either answer with an equally >> technical argument or don't bother to answer at all. >> Specifically, I think that Mr. Soule's responses of 'read the book' >> have done nothing but lengthen the arguments here by contributing >> essentially nothing to the technical discussion. As I understand it, >> this list is for technical discussion. I have yet to see Mr. Soule >> present *any* technical information to the list - he seems instead >> to be acting as PR manager and general Newman advocate (zealot?), >> refuting all anti-Newman claims without backing up his arguments >> with technical detail. >> >> --Zachary >------------ > >I agree. > >In an effort to not clutter (And here I am doing it! Sorry, but...) >this list with non-technical arguments and flames, I recently invited >Mr. Soule into discussion via private email. > >He accepted, and has since largely exhibited the same behavior in private >that he does here, namely using subterfuge and delaying tactics to avoid >answering any question he seems to think dangerous. So far, that's been >all the questions asked, among which was one which asked, basically, "If >you've got an ideal two volt source driving a non-reactive two ohm load, >what will be the current flowing in the circuit?". > >He also seems to be perpetually on the defensive and subscribes >to the philosophy that the best defense is a good offense. >He executes this philosophy quite well by maintaining a consistently >bristling, arrogant attitude while feigning an air of intellectual >superiority. > >Again, I apologize for any abuse of this list on my part, but I thought >this "report" would be interesting. > John Fields >-------------- To John Fields: Thanks for your interesting "report." My other post to Zachary's comments above are also appropriate with respect to your "report." Your apology as described above is certainly accepted and appreciated. Best wishes, Evan Soule From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 05:20:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA16453; Sat, 4 May 1996 05:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 05:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Zachary DeAquila To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron steam engine? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >From: Michael Mandeville >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: magnetron steam engine? >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > >As per the items below, do you recall the post about using blue laser >light to split water into hydrogen/oxy? no! missed that one... I'll have to go look for it... >I was going to use ordinary electrolysis to power a vehicle until I >wised up about the practicality of channeling so much amperage at >low voltage, seemed too inefficient electrically and too expensive >in the componants. In private discussoin with another list member this was brought up and I had similar doubts about being able to cheaply and safely channel and store such high currents... >A blue light laser is probably very expensive, but it is in the right >direction of efficiency. What order of efficeny *is* it? I think a prepackaged cheap magnetron wins over an expensive delicate blue laser for simplicity... providing it works, of course :) >I have an old 66 dodge dart available as a test bed. It's great advantage >is the big ole simple minded flatbed straight six. Easy running motor and >real easy to jury rig. You can get right down into the engine well and hug >the motor. Hrm. Well, from what I've read, the best kind of actually working vechicle would be a hybrid: an electric car drive train with a gas/steam turbine/engine generator hooked up and generating enough electricity to 1) help provide power to the car and 2) charge the batteries. The constant input of electricity helps to smooth out the performance jags due to driving patterns. As an added bonus, since you've got an electric vehicle, regenerative braking systems can just feed right into the charging system... If any of the above sounds too wild, well, I've got much more 'thought-time' in on these things than 'design-time' or 'build-time'... and I'm all-too-aware of the theory vs. practice problem in design. >At 03:34 AM 5/3/96 -0700, you wrote: >>>On Bill beaty's home pages there is a (moderately humorous) document >>>describing how to turn a normal engine into a steam engine by replacing >>>the spark plug with a magnetron in order to vaporize steam... >>>said document claims overunity performance for such a device. >>>Has anyone built one? How well does it perform? does it generate >>>enough energy to keep 'sparking' ? >>> >>>In thinking about it, all the energy is derived from the (semi explosive) >>>pressure change due to the phase change of the water. But is it enough? >>> >>>I have visions of a magnetron-based steam chamber venting into a Tesla-style >>>turbine engine.... >>> >> >>Yes, I agree, the microwave transducer motor looks good, but who knows >>if it really produces overunity ?? >> >>WHo has build this prototype ? Actually, this particular design has other appeals besides just overunity... 1)cheap/free fuel (just water, after all) 2)no air pollution... just some waste heat, and possibly not as much of that as current vehicles vent. >>I just got a video tape called: >> >>It runs on water. There is Stanley Meyer shown, >>having invented a Hydrogen splitter from plain water >>which he uses directly to jerk Hydrogen into the combustion >>chamber of a car motor. >>So the Hydrogen is produced on DEMAND and it needs less >>power (RF- pulsing high voltage instead of huge current) >>to generate the electrolysis ! Hrm. what range of voltage is necessary to pull this off? (and where'd I put my Tesla coil? hrm) --Zachary From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 05:22:15 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA16891; Sat, 4 May 1996 05:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 05:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318ab114.5049200@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman overunity proof X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 3 May 1996 03:05:38 -0700 (PDT), Stefan Hartmann wrote: [snip] >>Also, the input current is so low from the battery into the large coil that >>the input current stays on the ground position of the scope. One has to do >>this to keep most of the large negative spike from the coil on the screen >>of the scope. The scope easily proves that there is more power from the >>large coil than from the battery into the large coil. > >Exactly this you can see, if you have a look at the diagram in the pic >at my WEB site: > >http://www.overunity.de/newov2.gif Stefan, Could you please reassure me that the scope was set to measure DC voltage when measuring the voltage across the 1 ohm resistor. I also wonder why the bottom of the negative voltage spikes is not visible in your NEWOV1.GIF photo. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 05:22:41 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA16958; Sat, 4 May 1996 05:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 05:20:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318ab4ff.6052570@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Reply from Joseph Newman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 3 May 1996 03:19:10 -0700 (PDT), Richard Wayne Wall wrote: >5/2/96 > >You wrote: > >snip > >>Note that the current and voltage taken at 50MS/cent. showed a >>negative current spike from the large coil at the commutator break >>every 180 degrees and simultaneously showed the battery voltage RISE >>for the same exact period of time, and that both the voltage rise and >>the current negative spike are shown in phase. > >Please forgive these simple musings of an old saw bones. But, if the >voltage rises and the current is negative simultaneously, E and I are >180 degrees out of phase, the power factor is zero and there is I believe the power factor is zero, when voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase. When they are 180 degrees out of phase, the power _consumed_ is negative. I.e. the battery becomes a sink for power, rather than a source. >absolutely no real power. It's all reactive. No doubt, this is some >new physics that you have discovered and are now sharing with the >group. Since you now have decided to share your knowledge, please >elaborate. > >Sincerely, > >RWW > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 05:23:50 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA17024; Sat, 4 May 1996 05:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 05:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605041330.NAA14520@agora.stm.it> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: A NEW thread... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >The spinning ball experiment is the critical test for the validification >of Simularity. If we consider a spinning material object, we find manifested, >within the body of the object the well known forces of centripetal >acceleration. >These forces are manifested simply by the operation of spinning of the object. >Let these forces represent the result of a measurement. If we allow the >existence >of defect, a real property of the measurement, how might this be manifested? >When a spinning object is released to fall under the influence of >gravitational >attraction, it is found that the spinning object no longer falls with the >acceleration known as "g", the gravitational acceleration. The exact results of >this experiment, with corroboratory evidence and data are fully presented in a >series of papers, refs.: (1) "Antigravity" (2) "The Force Machine Experiment", >(3) "The OD Effect -- A New Physical Phenomena", and, (4) "THe OD effect -- >Radio Frequency Shift Experiment". > >What has been shown is that the defect of the manifestation of the >forces of centripetal acceleration of the rotational motion, is an inertia- >like quality, the OD effect, which has been measured to be proportional to the >acceleration of the rotating body of object. > I have a comment here, that may shed further light (or further confusion?) on the phenomenon under consideration. A similar behaviour (falling with a different acceleration than that of "g" has been observed for magnetized objects. These could be permanent magnets, electromagnets and even non-magnetic but electrified bifilar windings. A lot of reporting was done on this in Space Energy Journal about a year or two ago, and I made a summary of the results reported in the journal and in some other sources. The experimenter was John Kelly from Florida. Here is the report: ----------------- Comments on Gravity Drop Tests performed by Donald A. Kelly of Clearwater, Florida Donald A. Kelly, an independent researcher and consultant to the Space Energy Association in Clearwater, Florida, has been performing, from 1991 onward, an impressive series of tests that measure the behavior of dropping weights in a magnetized or electrically energized state as opposed to their behavior in a non-magnetized (inert) state. Various forms of magnetization and electrical energization have been used: Permanent magnets arranged both horizontally and vertically on test plates, electromagnets, non-inductive "Hooper-type" windings, as well as a combination of permanent magnets with bifilar, non-inductive coils. The electric energization was achieved by direct current (12 Volt DC) as well as alternating current (12 Volt 60 Hertz AC). Kelly described his results in various reports (1). Work on these experiments is currently continuing with a view to investigating differences of behavior of dropping weights not only between DC current and 60 Hertz AC, but with various other frequencies and various wave forms of AC. The apparatus used is a rack with a mechanical release mechanism and two microswitches to activate a counter, as more closely described in Kelly's own reports. The results have shown a significant lengthening of measured drop times in the magnetic and/or energized state as compared to the inert/non-energized state of the weights (plates). The following is a summary of results described by Kelly. Note that drop times are measured in digital counter units, not in analog time. The counter units can be converted to seconds using a conversion factor of .00463. Energizing mode Drop time inert/Drop time energized/Difference/Difference (percent) Perm. magnet flat mount 068/080/12/+ 17.6 % Perm. magnet vertical mount 084/122/38/+ 45.2 % Electromagnets DC energized 084/112/28/+ 33.3 % Noninductive winding DC energized 118/135/17/+ 14.4 % Perm magnet core and noninductive winding DC energized 084/139/55/+ 65.5 % Noninductive winding AC energized 118/159/41/+ 34.7 % Electromagnets AC energized 084/150/66/+ 78.6 % Perm magnet core and noninductive winding AC energized 084/153/69/+ 82.1 % We see from these results that a significant and consistent lengthening of drop time has been recorded in all magnetic and/or energized test plates as compared with the inert/unenergized controls. No weight difference in stationary plates A check has been made to ascertain whether between the energized and unenergized modes of the test plates, there would be an observable weight change. No such change of weight between unenergized and energized modes was observed, measuring the weight of the plates, using an analog scale, noting the weight with and without connection to DC voltage. Motion or acceleration? The observed unequivocal lengthening of "travel time" of the test plates suggests that some interaction is occurring between a moving magnetic and/or electrical field and a "gravitational field" or a "space background". The interaction is null as long as the test plates are stationary. A question now arises: Is the observed effect a consequence of motion or is it connected with acceleration? The importance of this question might not be immediately obvious, so I shall try to explain. If we are dealing with a resistance to acceleration, we are witnessing an increase of inertial mass of the test object, determined by an electric and/or magnetic phenomenon, but without a corresponding increase in gravitational mass. This would be a phenomenon that is present without regard to motion as such; it would not be measurable unless the object is subjected to acceleration, regardless whether the acceleration is induced by earth gravity or by some other means. If, on the other hand, we are dealing with a resistance to motion, we have to ask ourselves: resistance to motion against what? A resistance to motion would infer resistance against "changing of place" in relation to a (stationary) field or background. This could be a gravitational field or a background of space (ether) thought of as a kind of stationary grid system, stationary with regard to planet earth in this case. A third possibility would be to hypothesize that the motion of the energized or magnetized test plates in some way decreases the influence of gravity on the plates, actually leading to a change in weight (lightening) of the test plates only while in motion. This seems more unlikely, because a lighter test plate would not show such a large difference in drop time compared to a heavier but equally sized plate, as that shown in the experiments. Conclusion Whatever the force involved will eventually turn out to be, Kelly has made a discovery that must stimulate us to re-think some of the basics of physics in order to explain what is the mechanism responsible for the "abnormal" behavior of magnetized and/or otherwise energized plates. I hope that this pioneering research will help shake contemporary physics out of its complacent lethargic attitude and initiate a wave of fresh thought that will lead to some real progress in magnetic propulsion, anti-gravity and more generally in space power generation applications. Josef Hasslberger Rome, 25 April 1994 References: 1) "The gravity drop test connection to space energy conversion" by Donald A. Kelly (Paper submitted to the International Symposium on New Energy, Denver, Colorado May 1994) "Gravity drop experiments" by Donald A. Kelly (Planetary Association for Clean Energy Newsletter, Vol. 7 No. 1) "Gravity drop experiments" by Donald A. Kelly (Magnets in your future, Vol. 7 No. 10, October 1993) Josef Hasslberger Rampa Brancaleone 25, 00165 Rome, Italy j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 07:42:14 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05059; Sat, 4 May 1996 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 07:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605041405.QAA14894@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman scope screen shot ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: --=====================_831250614==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, this is a screenshot of the current inside a Joe Newman coil, measured via a shunt in series with the coil. You can see the big current spikes. The staircase waveform is due to using a Neon-tube in series with a capacitor in parallel to the coil to reduce the arcing when the mechanically commutator opens. (negative resistance) This is the 0.5 Ampere scale. At this scale you cannot see the input current, which is only 1.5 milliampere. This is from the 3rd modell of the Newman motors, which had a 7 KG Magnet on the side rotating and the coil weighted about 70 KG. You can see, that the current spike this time is only about 3 to 4 msecs long. In the very first bigger machine of Newman it was about 60 msecs long ! So, the bigger you build it, the more overunity power comes out of it... 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MFN)Q]H!0KR(_Z_Y_QQ.!'6$[L@%B5'H/\`/^?1(K5UF9\@ M@G.6Y(IT]NDBLIY8]^_^?\_66*.1$P[[OPQ4'0]A_G_/K&)1$PC"!`1E5'7_/^?H&\8)(%CY4 M?@/K4BS*(U>1E7*@GG_/^?UCDN9)_EM5R.\C=!4MK;"-M['=(>I/^?\`/\IG M'/\`G_/^?SHJ2/A0/3BFEOF_S_G_`#^< M@-+2`<4W`!IQZ4U<9I7H4C'%-)&>:?GBF`C--,2+(TN/F;N:D4YJM,@_Y_P`_JL-M&AWG+MU!;FI"3N_S_G_/Y//W:@C@C$YEV_.>_P#G_/\` M65^O^?\`/^?R6,87`%5+M))94B`(C/WF_P`_Y_K;5`L851@`<4T+DD?Y_P`_ MY^EH([5(Y7?[S,QX MIJG!_P`_Y_S^1(?\_P"?\_U(S_G_`#_G^J$G=_G_`#_G\G_PTQ3S[?Y_S_GE MS]*1.O'3_/\`G_/`^<_Y_P`_Y_-R_=IG\7^?\_Y_)[#Y::@YS_G_`#_GZCC_ M`#_G_/\`1R_=IA7GG_/^?\^[O+11E5`/J!2*H#=*XHCH8#-.!&VH$BC65G`RQ[U),BR1E6Z$5%%`J,&.YR.A;G'^?\^P\ M"J[NH_>/_%U-+#"BP&,X(8?-[TQ;6!&_U8/UY_S_`)_"P?N]*1&YQ_G_`#_G MZDA(/^?\_P"?RGO_G_]5J2FA%D7 M#J"/?_/^?YMV",!4&%]!_G_/\I<90@BHHT5#A%`'M_G_`#_.5Q\N::F<_P"? M\_Y_))SM0MC.!T'^?\_SBMHF=O.F^]CY5_NU,P^;I_G_`#_GT>1\N*:HP?\` M/^?\_FYAG%"C`I".:<*6FKG!J,DAO\_Y]?\`/60_=J-.O^?\_P"?R=)T]J(\ MTUL[_P#/^?\`/Y/'W/:F`'/^?\_Y_.1AE:15Q2./2E3[M-(P:>1Q3%(W?Y_S MWITAP.:$]*:QY_S_`)_S^3L_+30>?\_Y_P`_FYP<<4B9/^?\_P"?T1E;J!_G M_/\`GU<`=M-",#G'^?\`/^?164D4B(PY/^?\_P"?=60D\?Y_S_GV4*0,&F[# MFGE21BFA"#2LF>E"J1UI"ISQ3@/EQ30A!R:>1FD"D4A![#-*,]Z:4)(-.P<4 MBJ0>M*RYH52!2%6)ZC_/^?\`/9V.*:$(/4?Y_P`_Y[JRD]#0JD#FD*9/6EV\ M8I!'@YS2LNX8S0%QWI&CRM`4#I1@48HV@'-+2``=*"`>M`&*"`: -6C%(1GK2XI,`TM?_V0`` ` end --=====================_831250614==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de --=====================_831250614==_-- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 07:17:09 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05129; Sat, 4 May 1996 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 07:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <318b436e.42522770@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 3 May 1996 11:53:14 -0700 (PDT), Greg Watson wrote: [snip] >Would suggest a few changes for future reporting which will help >to keep apples as apples. Forget using watts except for steady state >DC measurements. Use Joules instead. Not much different. >1 Joules = 1 watt per second. Much better for pulse based systems. > Actually "per" means "divided by", thus your equation above reads: 1 Joule = 1 Watt / 1 sec. This is precisely wrong. It should be: 1 Watt = 1 Joule / 1 sec, or 1 Watt = 1 Joule per second. I know this appears to be trivial, but could be confusing for beginners. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 12:39:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA09878; Sat, 4 May 1996 12:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 12:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605041700.DAA02499@bukula.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson <"gwatson"@enternet.com.au (Greg Watson)> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman Test Circuit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Robin, Thanks for your input. You are of course correct. As Stefan said "Sometimes we are too quick". 1 Joule = 1 Watt-second. 1 Watt = 1 Joule/sec. As an example a 100 watt light globe running for 1 hour will consume 0.1 Kwh or 360,000 Joules (100 watts for 3,600 seconds). Joules are a measure of the total WORK/ENERGY used in a specific time period (could be short or could be long) and Watts are a measure of POWER (Joules/sec) at a specified point in time. This is why when we refer to pulse based systems, we should refer to Joules. This ALSO applies to coil charging curves and is why normal practice seems to imply the flux density in a coil is the result of the Joules consumed by the coil as the flux density increases and NOT just a measure of the final Power. I don't want to enter Bob Shannon's area here, I only used it as an example of Joules verus Watts and why we must be carefull not to compare apples to oranges. Best Regards, Greg Watson From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 4 16:11:21 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA16985; Sat, 4 May 1996 16:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 16:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605042250.SAA01843@dns.enter.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "David Rosignoli" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I am looking for places within the USA that exhibit measurable spatial and/or temporal anomalies. For instance, there is a place in Wisconsin known as Rock Lake where, supposedly, light is bent and the trees grow only at a slant. Does anyone out there know of any other places? More specifically, any places in the North East, like the NYC area? David Rosignoli drdaveor@enter.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 00:06:11 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA06948; Sat, 4 May 1996 23:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 23:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Tim Chandler To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron steam engine? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 03:36 AM 5/3/96 -0700, (someone...) wrote: >>On Bill beaty's home pages there is a (moderately humorous) document >>describing how to turn a normal engine into a steam engine by replacing >>the spark plug with a magnetron in order to vaporize steam... >>said document claims overunity performance for such a device. >>Has anyone built one? How well does it perform? does it generate >>enough energy to keep 'sparking' ? >> >>In thinking about it, all the energy is derived from the (semi explosive) >>pressure change due to the phase change of the water. But is it enough? >> >>I have visions of a magnetron-based steam chamber venting into a Tesla-style >>turbine engine.... >> > >Yes, I agree, the microwave transducer motor looks good, but who knows >if it really produces overunity ?? > >WHo has build this prototype ? Hi Stefan et al, A few years ago me and few guys at college tried something like the engine conversion described in the fore-mentioned article. The only major difference between our engine and the one in the article is ours used a series of specially designed rectangular/circular waveguides to get the MW energy into the firing port above the cyclinder. We figured the vibrations from the engine would not take long to crack and destroy the antenna output casing (which is glass type) on the magnetron. I personally do not see how the magnetron would just simply connect into the spark plug socket, all of the magnetrons I have seen do not have any treads on them that remotely match those of the spark plug port, of course the magnetrons we used were vintage 60's so maybe they have changed some. We did have to make quite extensive modifications on the ignition coil of the Briggs & Stratton engine we used, inorder to keep it running continuously. I do not recall exactly what the modifications were other than we did have to modify an autoracing type ignition coil (high power type for high performance autos) and the electronic ignition module on the the existing engine ignition coil (it is called a magnetron as well, go figure). These modifications took use about 2 weeks to get right before the engine would fire/run continuously. Performance wise, it was better than the combustion configuration, but not more efficient, it ran out of fuel (water) alot faster due to the need for a higher volume of fuel in the chamber (with the gas fuel there is gas and air (oxygen) injected into the combustion chamber by the carburetor). We eventually detected that the improper amount of water fuel (and to much air) was being supplied by the carburetor we tried to alter the carburetor but it simply was the wrong piece of equipment for this job. After discovering that the carburetor was not up to task at hand we modified a little pump and saw to it that it did inject the proper amount and little to no air. As for being overunity, ours surely was not, but I suppose it could be done. The first problem to overcome in a full sized combustion engine, say a 4 cylinder model, would be sealing the engine up better. The water vapors readily escaped from the standard seals on our little Briggs & Stratton engine. The engine would need to as air tight as possible as the water vapors would be able to escape alot easier than the "combustion" so to speak that the engine was orginally designed to handle. I suppose one could use some type of high temperture polymer, say TFE seals or something to that effect. The polymer seals should have a high expansion rate as to increase the sealing ability as the temperture of the engine increases, and it will increase quite rapidly. This brings up the next problem, keeping the engine/engine components for melting-down or warping. The magnetron is generally not subjected to such high tempertures in it normal intended use (in a microwave that is...). This problem of heat could be easily overcome by employing a liquid-nitrogen cryo-type cooling system. With a little work it could be used to cool every component that needed to be cooled in the engine, including the magnetrons. Another important factor to concider would be what to do with the exhaust vapors. One could possible incorporate some type of pressurized condensing system, that would enable the capture of most of the exhaust water vapors. Then the captured vapors could be condensed back into it's liquid state by either high pressure or cooling from the cryo-cooling system. If one wanted to get really creative, they could make a special electronic fuel injection system specifically designed for the engine, it would take some time to get the exact amount of water and least amount of air in the proper place at the proper time. This should improve performance considerablely since when our engine was running the carburetor gave us the most headaches before we scraped it. Another performance boost would be designing some type of electronic ignition system specifically for use in triggering the magnetron, as that too is a prime source for efficiency problems. One might go the other way with this problem. If you run the magnetron continuously as in a microwave oven(cooling it continuously as well) and then somehow design a shutter in the waveguide which would open and shut during the proper times in the firing cycle, the performance might be increased. Although closing off the waveguide would cause the EM waves (microwaves) to be deflected back into the antenna port on the magnetron, which would most likely damage the magnetron directly, not to mention increasing the ambient temperture of the magnetron significantly. So maybe the electronic iginition type module would be the best way to go, it would definitely beat out the old distributor/point(s) type system. Just a few ideas. I will look around and see if I can find any of my notes on the the B&S steam-type engine we worked on. I will post them, that is if I can find them...:) Food for Thought, Tim o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | Timothy A. Chandler || M.S.Physics/B.S.Chemistry | o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | NASA-Langley Research Center || George Mason University | | Department of Energy || Department of Physics | | FRT/Alpha - NASALaRC/DOE JRD/OPM || Department of Chemistry | | CHOCT FR Designation #82749156/MG09|| OPC-EFC | o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | Private Email Address: tchand@slip.net | o-----------------------------------------------------------------------o From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 00:09:22 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA07401; Sat, 4 May 1996 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 23:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605050346.XAA17795@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman Overunity proof (?) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>________________________________________________ >>The Following Has Been Written by Joseph Newman: >> >>April 30, 1996 >> >>Note that the current and voltage taken at 50MS/cent. showed a negative >>current spike from the large coil at the commutator break every 180 degrees >>and simultaneously showed the battery voltage RISE for the same exact >>period of time, and that both the voltage rise and the current negative >>spike are shown in phase. >> >>Also, the input current is so low from the battery into the large coil that >>the input current stays on the ground position of the scope. One has to do >>this to keep most of the large negative spike from the coil on the screen >>of the scope. The scope easily proves that there is more power from the >>large coil than from the battery into the large coil. Stefan wrote: >Exactly this you can see, if you have a look at the diagram in the pic >at my WEB site: > >http://www.overunity.de/newov2.gif > > >Please Bob Shannon concentrate now on this fact and let me know >your comments about this. >This exactly shows, that 4 times the energy comes out of the coil >than is put into it. >Please DO NOT concentrate on Newman=B4s theory anymore and >try to explain this data from the REAL motor ! > >Regards, Stefan. Very well, but I don't think you will like it. You claim that the illustrations show 4 times the output power than is input there eh? Let me explain why I do not see the same thing. First, in the oscilloscope drawing, (Exhibit 4?) we see that the negatve spike, is indeed a spike, not a constant delivery of .4 ampers. On the chart "Power In Watts As A function Of Time, One Cycle", we see that the rectangular area (60 watts for 0.06 seconds) assumes that it is a constant delivery, in contradiction with the illustration above, and also in conflict with the known actions of inductors. Clearly this back spike is inductive in nature, and the portion of it shown in the top drawing shows that the leading and trailing edges are converging, hence the description of a spike. How much difference is there between a spike, and the rectangular area shown in the second chart, and in the calculations of 4 times unity? If we assume the spike were a half sine wave, the ratio of power under the curve of the half sine and the rectangular area is about 2/pi. or .6369 to 1. The charge time is shown as 0.31 seconds, and the charge current shown to be 0.08 ampers. This is a power of 12 watts (not accounting for the AC power factor present while charging an inductive load from a DC source) over a period of 0.31 seconds for a total power of (12 x 0.31) = 3.72 watt seconds. The rectangular area (incorrectly) shows 60 watts delivered for 0.06 seconds with a total power of (60 x 0.06) = 3.6 watt seconds. Again, this back spike has an AC power factor as well, which remains unaddressed, as do any power factors present during the charge cycle. This might be taken to show a efficiency (Eout / Ein) of (3.6/3.72) = 0.96, or 96% efficiency, but this is incorrect due to the difference between a spike with a peak current of 0.4 amperes, and a steady delivery of 0.4 amperes for 0.06 seconds. To get a figure of Eout = ~4 x Ein, we must disregard the duty cycles, and compare the instantaneous power levels of 12 watts input vs. 60 watts of output power. This however is incorrect due to the periods of the signals shown in the illustrations. If the high frequency (AC) components of the back spike approximate a half sine wave, we must reduce the delivered power by the ratio of a half sine to a rectangular area (as incorrectly shown on the web site). This then yeilds 3.6 watt seconds times 2/pi, for a half sine total power of (3.6 x .6369) 2.29 watt seconds. The efficiency (Eout / Ein) now becomes (2.29/3.72) = 0.61, or an efficiency of 61%. In neither case was the efficiency shown to be 400% Mr. Hartmann. Anyone familiar with the MRA will see an eerie similarity here. Anyone versed in mathematics, please check the ratio between half sine, and rectangular areas. The half sine IS an approximation, not intended to 'prove' any real world performance metrics for Mr. Newman's invention, but is given only to show the clear error in applying the peak power over the whole discharge period. The drawing of the osciloscope display show why this is incorrect. The half sine approximation only shows the magnitude of this error. It is this type of error that prevents accepting this as proof of Mr. Newman's claims. Total energy is not peak energy, and total energy is not steady state energy even if I have read Mr. Newman's book, or not. Now, where is this proof you speak of Mr. Hartmann? May we now return to the questions of Mr. Newman's two coil demonstration? (In which, nothing was inside the coils, no magnets, nothing.) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 00:05:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA07662; Sat, 4 May 1996 23:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 23:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605050350.XAA17886@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Reply from Joseph Newman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >The Following Has Been Written by Joseph Newman: >April 30, 1996 >Bob Shannon's comments exemplify why I do not waste my time with ________ >at my Life's Work. >Shannon wrote to Mr. Soule on 4/10/96: >"You responded with the observation that the time to reach maximum magnetic >field strength was shorter for the larger coil than it was for the smaller >coil. Unfortunately this effect has nothing to do with the coil." >That statement is totally FALSE! Prove it to be false Mr. Newman, disprove my testing and results. >Science presently teaches in NO uncertain terms that (In Essence): "It is >known that the magnetic field from a larger coil will be larger than a >small coil, but it will take a LONGER period of time for the larger >magnetic field to form from the larger coil; therefore, you use more Power >and gain nothing." >Bob Shannon called me several evening ago and when I jumped down his throat >he admitted and repeated: "Mr. Newman, you are absolutely correct . . . >Mr. Newman, you are absolutely correct." Mr. Newman is quite correct, I did say these words to him, but not in the context Mr. Newman is using them in here. This is a cowaredly act of disinformation in my opinion. I had agreed with Mr. Newman on part of his understanding of the ampere turns law. but then proceeded to explain why conventional theory states that the magnetic field is due to teh current alone, FOR A GIVEN COIL, not for all coils as Mr. Newman seems to think is states. I stand behind my statement that the effect shown in Mr. Newman's two coil demonstration, a current product of Newman Energy Products has nothing to do with the coils, and that the demonstration shows only conventional phenomema when all factors are measured, as well as with a constant current power supply. >The demonstration I gave on February 5, 1996 proved I was correct and that >what Shannon agreed was taught, was WRONG. Experimental data shows conventional theory to be correct, and disproves Mr. Newman's interpratation of the two coil demonstration in my opinion. >Shannon also told Mr. Soule, [who gave Mr. Shannon his fax number for this >purpose], that Shannon would fax his credentials and information about the >company for which he worked. As of this date he has not done so. I'm still waiting to see the response to Mr. Walls's perfectly reasonable requests Mr. Newman. These are of interest to many here. >Who I am and what I teach is published in my book --- The Energy Machine of >Joseph Newman --- and in many VHS tapes documented by credible scientists >and the national news media. The credibility of everyone envolved here rests with their presented data, and this can be confirmed by any interested party by simply repeating the tests as documented. Claiming peak power at total power In the "Power In Watts As A Function Of Time chart (Reconstruction of Exhibit 3?) is yet another indefensible error which clearly shows Mr. Newman's technical acumen, if not credibility in this matter. There is a clear pattern of such errors. This data from Mr. Newman's own book speaks for itself. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 00:05:47 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA07970; Sun, 5 May 1996 00:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 00:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Apology/Newman test circuit (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 19:08:03 +0200 (MET DST) From: Greg Watson To: bilb@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Apology/Newman test circuit Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >Greg Watson wrote: > >If your gyrotron theory is correct, this circuit should allow you to > >directly generate excess energy without the need for a magnetic rotor. If > >so, all you need to do is to use a small motor to turn the commutator and > >the excess magnetic field thus generated by the trapped gyrotrons will > >provide excess energy into the output capacitor. > > > > Just with a coil it will NOT work. > > You have to use a permanent magnet inside the coil ! > > IMHO, due to my study work on the Newman machines > only this gives overunity performance ! > > regards, Stefan. Stefan, Thanks for the post and your comments. If the magnet is needed thats OK. What the circuit should do is to prove that excess energy is being generated by the coil. This is what Mr Newman has always claimed as the basic for his work. It should not matter wheather the excess energy is converted into rotary torque or back charging battery currents as an excess magnetic field is still required. The full wave bridge will trap the back EMF and allow easier measurements of performance. How is the German spring? I remember many trips to West Berlin. Regards, Greg Watson From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 03:25:55 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA07578; Sun, 5 May 1996 03:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 03:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: All things in "MODERATION" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Over the last week I've had time to read quite a bit of the Newman controversy but haven't been able to respond. Yes, listproc has also been screwing up, so I wasted time in hand-forwarding plenty of messages. The bounces problem seems totally fixed now (Yay eskimo!) and the only strangeness is the periodic delay in mail distributions. On the Newman discussion: "thinly veiled flamewar" is a perfect description. Flamewars are a process of giving insults combined with *taking* insult. Without both halves, flamewars cannot exist, so when they happen, it's the fault of both the givers and the takers. Flamewars also are similar to real wars: each side excuses their own actions as being justified responses to blows from the enemy. Personal responsibility for behavior vanishes, and any action becomes acceptable because you blame the enemy for "making" you do it. This crap won't cut it here. Look at your own actions and be ashamed. The freenrg-L rules must not be clear enough, so let me expand on them. I'm modifying rule 3 to read: 2. Flamewars are banned. No namecalling or intentional insults on this list. Use private email if you want to be nasty. To prevent spontaneous flamewars, be ever aware of the psychology of email, since it is easy to misinterpret a message, hear unintentional insults, and respond in kind. If you respond in kind to a nonexistant insult, then *you* threw the first punch. So, if you feel offended, first ask the author if a particular statement is intended to be insulting. You might get an explanation or apology. And if you respond in kind to a genuine insult, you lower yourself to their level, participate in a flamewar, and jeapordize your subscription to the list. Simple enough? If someone insults you, don't complain to the moderator and don't lash back at the sender. Instead, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE INSULT WAS REAL. Instead, privately get straight with the sender about their intentions. Email is a screwy medium where most emotional meaning is lost, and it is the responsibility of the recipient to verify their interpretation when it deals with emotion. If the insult was intentional that's one thing, but until you check it out with the sender, even the most obvious insult might actually be all in your interpretation and not in the senders intent. ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 03:27:58 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA08283; Sun, 5 May 1996 03:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 03:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman discussion off freenrg-L X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: It looks like numerous subscribers don't want to hear any more about Newman and arguments over interpretation of test results. I just had an idea which I wish I'd had earlier. I'm going to subscribe those interested in this topic to my disused vortex-L annex, vortcor-list. You'll receive email about this when it happens. This doesn't affect current freenrg-L subscriptions. Lurkers who want to listen in are free to subscribe by sending this one-line message to listproc@eskimo.com: subscribe vortcor-list your name (inserting your name in place of "your name") If you discover yourself subscribed to this list and you want out, tell me, or send "unsubscribe vortcor-list" to listproc@eskimo.com. The discussion can't take over VORTCOR-LIST forever, but for a few weeks is no problem. So, no more Newman Device discussions here, send messages to VORTCOR-LIST instead. ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 10:49:06 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA19648; Sun, 5 May 1996 10:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <68FJoH6eldB@ddd.snafu.de> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@ddd.snafu.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Newman Scope screenshot ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, this is a screenshot of the current inside a Joe Newman coil, measured via a shunt in series with the coil. You can see the big current spikes. The staircase waveform is due to using a Neon-tube in series with a capacitor in parallel to the coil to reduce the arcing when the mechanically commutator opens. (negative resistance) This is the 0.5 Ampere scale. At this scale you cannot see the input current, which is only 1.5 milliampere. This is from the 3rd modell of the Newman motors, which had a 7 KG Magnet on the side rotating and the coil weighted about 70 KG. You can see, that the current spike this time is only about 3 to 4 msecs long. In the very first bigger machine of Newman it was about 60 msecs long ! So, the bigger you build it, the more overunity power comes out of it... 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M\_Y_))SM0MC.!T'^?\_SBMHF=O.F^]CY5_NU,P^;I_G_`#_GT>1\N*:HP?\` M/^?\_FYAG%"C`I".:<*6FKG!J,DAO\_Y]?\`/60_=J-.O^?\_P"?R=)T]J(\ MTUL[_P#/^?\`/Y/'W/:F`'/^?\_Y_.1AE:15Q2./2E3[M-(P:>1Q3%(W?Y_S MWITAP.:$]*:QY_S_`)_S^3L_+30>?\_Y_P`_FYP<<4B9/^?\_P"?T1E;J!_G M_/\`GU<`=M-",#G'^?\`/^?164D4B(PY/^?\_P"?=60D\?Y_S_GV4*0,&F[# MFGE21BFA"#2LF>E"J1UI"ISQ3@/EQ30A!R:>1FD"D4A![#-*,]Z:4)(-.P<4 MBJ0>M*RYH52!2%6)ZC_/^?\`/9V.*:$(/4?Y_P`_Y[JRD]#0JD#FD*9/6EV\ M8I!'@YS2LNX8S0%QWI&CRM`4#I1@48HV@'-+2``=*"`>M`&*"`: -6C%(1GK2XI,`TM?_V=?_ ` end sum -r/size 30855/53430 section (from "begin" to "end") sum -r/size 12918/38758 entire input file -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de or harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 10:47:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA20302; Sun, 5 May 1996 10:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 10:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <68FJpFyuldB@ddd.snafu.de> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@ddd.snafu.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: The Denver conference ? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, did anybody hear anything about the recent Denver Free Energy conference ? How was it ? Did anybody attend ? Did they show any running devices, like a Takahashi motor ? Please let me know. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de or harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 15:41:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA07887; Sun, 5 May 1996 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Phys. Review goes "Fringe"! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: PATHOLOGICAL SKEPTICISM 13. Belief that fundamental concepts in science do not change, coupled with a "herd following" behavior where the individual changes his/her opinions when collegues all do, all the while remaining blind to the fact that opinions ever changed. See PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE below. Looks like the Sheep Herd of orthodox physics is preparing to jump on the ZPE Free Energy bandwagon. Next thing you know, ultra-conservative physicists will be building Schauberger turbines in their basements and drinking only Organized Water. Time to invest in companies which publish Unconventional Science Journals? ;) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 07:39:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Eugene Mallove <76570.2270@compuserve.com> Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ZPE Tapping in SL to be Annointed in Phys Rev! Hey fellow rocket scientists! Phys. Rev. is going to annoint ZPE energy tapping! I bet pretty soon they'll be singing the praises of the Hydrosonic pump -- Great! Hal, do you know Claudia? Eugene F. Mallove, Sc.D., Editor-in-Chief INFINITE ENERGY: Cold Fusion and New Energy Technnology Cold Fusion Technology P.O. Box 2816 Concord, NH 03302-2816 Fax: 603-224-5975 Phone: 603-228-4516 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 267 April 23, 1996 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein A NEW THEORY OF SONOLUMINESCENCE. Sound energy, in the form of a beam of ultrasonic waves, can be partly converted into light energy by aiming the sound at an air bubble in a sample of water. The sound causes the bubble to collapse and to emit sharp (less than 12 picosecond) light pulses. The light's spectrum implies that the source of the radiation is similar to a black-body object at a temperature of tens of thousands of kelvins. Theorists have tried to explain sonoluminescence by saying, for example, that the radiation comes from a plasma formed by the collapse of the bubble. But mostly the mechanism behind the production of the pulses remains a mystery. Now Claudia Eberlein of Cambridge University (cce20@phy.cam.ac.uk, 44-1223-337-458) offers a more daring explanation. She believes the light is being emitted by the vacuum surrounding the bubble. Modern quantum theory holds that unseeable virtual photons abound in the vacuum. The behavior of these "zero-point fluctuations" is influenced by the properties of the surrounding medium. The rapidly moving air-water interface (where two media different indices of refraction come together) may facilitate the conversion of virtual photons into real photons. In fact, Eberlein says, sonoluminescence may represent the first observable manifestation of quantum vacuum radiation. This scenario can be compared to the "Unruh effect," a hypothetical phenomenon in which photons are emitted by a mirror accelerating through a vacuum. "Hawking radiation," the hypothetical emission of particles from black holes, is yet another example of energy seemingly coming out of nowhere; at the black hole's Schwarzschild radius (inside of which, light cannot excape), space is so warped that energy from the black hole can be converted into particle-antiparticle pairs; one particle falls back into the hole while its partner escapes. Eberlein asserts that researchers can put her theory to an experimental test and compare the results to other models of sonoluminescence. (Claudia Eberlein, upcoming article in Physical Review Letters.) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 15:44:48 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA08890; Sun, 5 May 1996 15:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: netcom users accidentally dumped X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I just heard that a netcom user suddenly lost freenrg-L feed. When I checked, I found that ALL netcom addresses were unsubscribed. This probably happened awhile back when the eskimo staff still had a listproc feature enabled which told listproc to unsubscribe anyone whose mail bounced for many days running. Netcom is infamous for bouncing mail for many days at a time, so I bet this triggered the automatic unsubscribe. Fortunately the "feature" is now turned off. If you are on netcom and you UNSUBSCRIBED from freenrg-L in the last couple of weeks, sorry, you have to unsubscribe again, sinced I used a subscriber list from 4/8 to re-subscribe the netcom users from netcom. To unsubscribe from freenrg-L, send this one-line message to listproc@eskimo.com: unsubscribe freenrg-L ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 15:51:57 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA09607; Sun, 5 May 1996 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Mary R. Carleton" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: David, There is a place called the "Oregon Vortex" just north of the California-Oregon border about 20 minutes off of US Interstate 5 near Grant's Pass. It is a spherical area where compasses don't work properly and neither do conventional surveying methods. Visual perception is also affected. One example: picture an eight foot long one-by-twelve lying flat on the ground with a bubble-type level available to verify for yourself that the board is flat on the ground. If two people of equal height stand on opposite ends of the board one will appear several inches taller than the other. If they reverse positions they reverse heights. It does not matter where the observer stands ... you can completely walk around the pair and the illusion persists, always with the "taller" one on the same end. The board is in the middle of a cleared area and not against a special back-drop. The effect is also capturable on film. Another demonstration is to hand someone a plumb-bob for reference and then tell them to close their eyes and stand up straight. Invariably the subject stands up about 15 degress off of true as related by the bob. They supply the bob and they pick the spot for the demo, so perhaps it is a trick done with magnets. Either that or they chose the spot for the strength of the effect. It is supposed to diminish as you approach the edge of the sphere. As I recall, the area was several hundred feet in diameter. Sorry it's not in the Northeast, but it is in textbooks and encyclopedias. Mary Carleton maryc@inc-g.com >I am looking for places within the USA that exhibit measurable >spatial and/or temporal anomalies. For instance, there is a place >in Wisconsin known as Rock Lake where, supposedly, light is bent and >the trees grow only at a slant. > >Does anyone out there know of any other places? >More specifically, any places in the North East, like the NYC area? > >David Rosignoli >drdaveor@enter.net > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 5 15:50:52 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA10221; Sun, 5 May 1996 15:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 15:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: magnetron engine O/U? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 4 May 1996, Tim Chandler wrote: > Performance wise, it was better than the combustion configuration, but not > more efficient, it ran out of fuel (water) alot faster due to the need for a You mean that your engine used water as fuel?!!!! Or was it actually just powered by its battery? If the engine ran its battery down, then you're right, it's probably not overunity. The fuel then is not the water, the water is just the working fluid, and your whole system is actually just a fantastically complicated electric motor. Orthodox Physics does not regard water to be useable as fuel, so if you succeeded in running a microwave steam engine just on water, without running its battery down, then your engine was doing something very strange, and we should all try reproducing your experiment. One person on VORTEX-L believes that water molecules have a metastable state, a sort of delayed phosphorescence effect that is pumped up by ultraviolet radiation, and then is released as heat when the water is stimulated somehow. As if the water was a fuel which could provide excess heat. If true, then many water-based o/u devices are actually running off of delayed solar energy. Which is the same situation with coal, coal having once been been ancient plants storing sunlight energy. If water acts as a fuel, then water-based o/u devices which recycle the same water would be expected to run for awhile then fail mysteriously. O/U devices which have a continuous input of "new" water would run forever. And any water that flowed through this latter type of device would become "depleted" water, which could not be used to run O/U devices and might have all kinds of other weird properties. The water theory was offered as an explanation for Cold Fusion, where a CF cell was acting as an electrical device for stimulating water into dumping its metastable internal energy. ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 02:36:39 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA21330; Mon, 6 May 1996 02:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605052259.IAA22500@bukula.enternet.com.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Greg Watson <"gwatson"@enternet.com.au (Greg Watson)> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman Overunity proof (?) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: bshannon wrote: > > The charge time is shown as 0.31 seconds, and the charge current shown to > be 0.08 ampers. Bob, Have rechecked Stefan's gifs, charge current is shown as 20ma NOT 80ma. Input power is therefore 1/4 of your estimate. Still think nothing is going on? Lets ALL show down and think before we speak or write, our host is sick of us. I agree with you and others that the data provides by Evan leaves a lot of be desired. Stefan is different, he is an engineer and has actually built Newman prototypes in a lab in a attempt to duplicate Newman's work. I have put my doubts aside, just maybe something is going on inside a Newman Motor that Newman & Co. don't fully understand. Please Bob, talk two steps back, work with me and Stephan. Stephan and I have agreed to use the subject "Newman Test Circuit" for our discussions. Best Regards, Greg Watson From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 02:41:24 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA21538; Mon, 6 May 1996 02:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Tim Chandler To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron engine O/U? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 03:44 PM 5/5/96 -0700, bilb@eskimo.com wrote: >On Sat, 4 May 1996, Tim Chandler wrote: > >> Performance wise, it was better than the combustion configuration, but not >> more efficient, it ran out of fuel (water) alot faster due to the need for a > >You mean that your engine used water as fuel?!!!! Or was it actually just >powered by its battery? If the engine ran its battery down, then you're >right, it's probably not overunity. The fuel then is not the water, the >water is just the working fluid, and your whole system is actually just a >fantastically complicated electric motor. Orthodox Physics does not >regard water to be useable as fuel, so if you succeeded in running a >microwave steam engine just on water, without running its battery down, >then your engine was doing something very strange, and we should all try >reproducing your experiment. Well yes you are right, the water is just a "working-fluid" so to speak. If one wants to look at it in that aspect though, one must look at all the energy transformations that takes place in the mechanism. The electrical energy is pumped into the magnetron, which in turn produces an EM wave (microwave) which in this application is best termed thermodynamic (or heat) energy. That thermodynamic energy is then absorbed by the molecules in the water which causes the temperture of those molecules to raise until it cause's the molecules to undergo a phase transition, in which the liquid turns into a gas, this a change in physical property thus the energy still remains a thermodynamic type. The pressure increase caused by the expansion of the water molecules undergoing there phase transition forces the engine's piston down, thus the thermodyanamic energy is converted into mechanical energy. This mechanical energy is transfered from the piston to the crankshaft, and from the crankshaft to whatever output one desires, as long as it is able to make use of the mechanic energy. Work has and can be done. I understand what you are getting at though. In the engines normal operation, the fuel is gasoline which has a specific stored amount of chemical energy which is able to be released when the spark plug ignites it. When the spark-plug fires, the gasoline in the chamber ignites, which produces a chemical change in the gasoline that releases chemical energy, this release of chemical energy then in turn causes the piston to be forced down, the energy is thus transformed into mechanical energy. The water within the chamber when excited to the gaseous state from its liquid state undergoes a soley physical change in which the energy is NOT converted into chemical energy. Water does not have the stored chemical energy, so to speak, that the gasoline possess, but one must remember water is quite a weird little molecule, and it has been known to exhibit properties that other molecules chemically similar to water do not. Just because there is no transformation into chemcial energy in the water, that does not necessarily mean that the water does not exhibit an increase in internal (potential/kinetic) energy, it does. When the water changes phases, going from liquid to gas, it absorbs the heat energy from the EM wave in order to obtain its gaseous state. Lets say that when water is in its liquid state, the molecules individualy have an inherent kinetic energy of 5 joules, inherent kinetic energy is the energy that required of the "motion" of the molecules. When the molecules are forced into there gaseous state, in this case through the application of thermodynamic energy, the inherent kinetic energy raises to 50 joules, the "motion" of the individual molecules is significantly increased. This increase in "motion" causes an increase in pressure within a confined space. The pressure forces the piston down, and so on. The thermodynamic energy of the EM wave is simply asorbed by the water molecules and is then transformed into mechanical energy. So primarily your statement is correct, water does not really operate as a fuel, only a means to which thermodynamic energy is transformed into mechanical energy, basically. That is if there are no other "processes" taking place within the water molecules. As for overunity, first one must define overunity. What is it actually? Is overunity merely getting more energy out than you are putting in or is overunity actually a process that requires very little energy input with regards to it energy output? I do not know what "overunity" actually is, perhaps someone else can explain this better for me. As for the battery running down, what battery? If one modifies a lawnmover engine, say a Briggs & Stratton 3HP model, to operate using the microwave technique, in the following manner, no battery is needed, just a trigger source: (1) Reconfigure engine to accept a MW EM wave source (magnetron) instead of the standard spark plug. (2) Rework the existing ignition system on the engine to trigger the magnetron without using any other energy source for input. (3) Adjust the injector mechanism on the engine so that it injects the proper amount of water into the chamber above the piston. (4) Fill "fuel" tank with water instead of gas. If that is all one does to the engine, then there is no external energy inputs, such as a battery. The ignition system on the standard Briggs & Stratton 3HP lawnmover engine is called a "Magneto Ignition System" (MIS). The MIS works as follows from start-up (very basic): (a) The manual starter cord is pulled causing the flywheel (with magnets mounted on it) to turn. (b) The flywheel then causes the crankshaft, camshaft, and piston to which is connected, to move, as well as causing the magnets to pass by the ignition coil, which induce a current and thus voltage to flow through the coil. (c) (when point(s) are closed) As the flywheel magnet passes by the ignition coil, the magnet in motion creates an electric current in the primary circuit, which is completed to ground at both ends because the crankshaft lobe has allowed the moveable breaker points to close. (d) (when point(s) are opened) The flywhell magnet has passed by. The crankshaft lobe opens the breaker points, causing the electromagnetically charged field of the primary circuit to collapse upon the secondary circuit. This results in high-voltage current to the spark plug- the terminal of the secondary circuit. The above applies to older model engines, newer models incorporate an electronic type ignition system. For reference on installing an electronic ignition system see: "How To Install An Electronic Ignition" by Mort Schultz Popular Mechanics May 1989 page 149-150 Keeping the above in mind, when the engine is running, there is no battery source which could be drained. So then could the water not be considered the "fuel" source? Maybe, maybe not, but none the less, the water is the means by which the engine is kept operational, for if the water runs out the engine will stop operating, will it not? >One person on VORTEX-L believes that water molecules have a metastable >state, a sort of delayed phosphorescence effect that is pumped up by >ultraviolet radiation, and then is released as heat when the water is >stimulated somehow. As if the water was a fuel which could provide excess >heat. If true, then many water-based o/u devices are actually running off >of delayed solar energy. Which is the same situation with coal, coal >having once been been ancient plants storing sunlight energy. If water >acts as a fuel, then water-based o/u devices which recycle the same water >would be expected to run for awhile then fail mysteriously. O/U devices >which have a continuous input of "new" water would run forever. And any >water that flowed through this latter type of device would become >"depleted" water, which could not be used to run O/U devices and might >have all kinds of other weird properties. > >The water theory was offered as an explanation for Cold Fusion, where a CF >cell was acting as an electrical device for stimulating water into dumping >its metastable internal energy. As I stated above, water is a weird little molecule, and is not totally understood. Upon closing I must say that our modification of the Briggs & Stratton engine was never intended for an "overunity" application so to speak, it was merely an experiment we were conducting to determine whether or not it was possible to operate an engine on water, thus negating many of the emission problems associated with combustion type engines. Nothing more, nothing less... Thanks, Tim o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | Timothy A. Chandler || M.S.Physics/B.S.Chemistry | o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | NASA-Langley Research Center || George Mason University | | Department of Energy || Department of Physics | | FRT/Alpha - NASALaRC/DOE JRD/OPM || Department of Chemistry | | CHOCT FR Designation #82749156/MG09|| OPC-EFC | o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | Private Email Address: tchand@slip.net | o-----------------------------------------------------------------------o From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 02:42:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA22153; Mon, 6 May 1996 02:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960506035357_102012.1500_EHT68-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Jules Brovont <102012.1500@CompuServe.COM> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: How to Catch a "Tiger" by his Tale. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: What is a 'Kromrey Generator"? From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 02:44:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA22312; Mon, 6 May 1996 02:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 02:35:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960506045349_102012.1500_EHT42-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Jules Brovont <102012.1500@CompuServe.COM> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Scalar Technology X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Does anyone have the diagrams for the files SCALAR1.ASC and SCALAR2.ASC and if you do, could you send them to me in gif/jpg etc. format? :) thanx From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 04:25:18 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA04379; Mon, 6 May 1996 04:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605060959.LAA17978@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, there is a place in Southern Germany or Switzerlandor Austria, I don=B4t=20 remember it now where it was... There cars roll up a mountain ! Also a glas botlle placed on the road rolls up the hill... I saw it once in a TV-show over here, which was a few years ago... Probably some distorted gravitational field due to some minerals inside the hill ??? regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 04:22:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA04601; Mon, 6 May 1996 04:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605060959.LAA17972@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman Overunity proof ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>>________________________________________________ >>>The Following Has Been Written by Joseph Newman: >>> >>>April 30, 1996 >>> >>>Note that the current and voltage taken at 50MS/cent. showed a negative >>>current spike from the large coil at the commutator break every 180= degrees >>>and simultaneously showed the battery voltage RISE for the same exact >>>period of time, and that both the voltage rise and the current negative >>>spike are shown in phase. >>> >>>Also, the input current is so low from the battery into the large coil= that >>>the input current stays on the ground position of the scope. One has to= do >>>this to keep most of the large negative spike from the coil on the screen >>>of the scope. The scope easily proves that there is more power from the >>>large coil than from the battery into the large coil. > > >Stefan wrote: > >>Exactly this you can see, if you have a look at the diagram in the pic >>at my WEB site: >> >>http://www.overunity.de/newov2.gif >> >> >>Please Bob Shannon concentrate now on this fact and let me know >>your comments about this. >>This exactly shows, that 4 times the energy comes out of the coil >>than is put into it. >>Please DO NOT concentrate on Newman=3DB4s theory anymore and >>try to explain this data from the REAL motor ! >> >>Regards, Stefan. > >Very well, but I don't think you will like it. > >You claim that the illustrations show 4 times the output power than is >input there eh? Let me explain why I do not see the same thing. > >First, in the oscilloscope drawing, (Exhibit 4?) we see that the negatve >spike, is indeed a spike, not a constant delivery of .4 ampers. If you would have looked also at the pic: http://www.overunity.de/newov1.gif there you can see, that the scale for the scope is at 1 Ampere/cm and the spike goes out of the screen, so the peak of the back=20 current pulse is at least several Amperes big ! Then 0.4 Ampere only were used to describe the output power nearly as a rectangular area. So compare the use of 0.4 Ampere to the real spike with several Amperes of magnitude... So to use a recangular area an approximation=20 of just 0.4 Amperes can be used... So conclusion is, that the back output power is still much higher than 400 % ! It was just used for easier calculation ! Thus my term: "Pure DC" ! If you do not belive it, have a look at Newman=B4s video tapes, where you can see, that , when this back current pulse occurs, the indescandent bulbs connected in series with the coil lighted up brightly, while during the other time they were not lit at all...(in his first big motor) This also verifies huge back current during the spike going back to the battery. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service =20 Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 04:17:34 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA04700; Mon, 6 May 1996 04:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605061000.MAA17991@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Enhancing a Newman motor ! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 19:08:03 +0200 (MET DST) >From: Greg Watson >To: bilb@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: Apology/Newman test circuit > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >Greg Watson wrote: >> >If your gyrotron theory is correct, this circuit should allow you to >> >directly generate excess energy without the need for a magnetic rotor. If >> >so, all you need to do is to use a small motor to turn the commutator and >> >the excess magnetic field thus generated by the trapped gyrotrons will >> >provide excess energy into the output capacitor. >> > >> >> Just with a coil it will NOT work. >> >> You have to use a permanent magnet inside the coil ! >> >> IMHO, due to my study work on the Newman machines >> only this gives overunity performance ! >> >> regards, Stefan. > >Stefan, > >Thanks for the post and your comments. > >If the magnet is needed thats OK. What the circuit should do is to prove >that excess energy is being generated by the coil. This is what Mr >Newman has always claimed as the basic for his work. > >It should not matter wheather the excess energy is converted into >rotary torque or back charging battery currents as an excess magnetic >field is still required. The full wave bridge will trap the back EMF >and allow easier measurements of performance. > Well, I think on this topic Mr. Newman is probably wrong... I guess, that the overunity effect depends also not on the bigness of the coil, but on how much capacitance the coil has... So I guess it depends, how much charge the coil can store in its windings...together with the effect of a rotating magnet inside the coil is used... Also I think, it violates the Lenz law, by using the back EMF to generate usefull torque on the rotating magnet and thus an increased speed also pushes the back EMF higher which in turn makes the back EMF current spike higher... I guess the Newman motors could be improved by using capacitors between partial coil windings.. Thus there would be also with small coils this charging effect and this way maybe the back current spike could be bigger also with small motors ! If I will have some free time, I will try it out with my Newman coils... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 04:22:58 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA04833; Mon, 6 May 1996 04:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605061000.MAA17997@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron steam engine? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Just a few ideas. I will look around and see if I can find any of my notes >on the the B&S steam-type engine we worked on. I will post them, that is if >I can find them...:) > >Food for Thought, How long did the batteries last, that powered the magnetron ? Did you use the car batteries for powering it ? So was the car battery also charged again via the car generator ? regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.powerweb.de/harti Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 04:58:11 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA09270; Mon, 6 May 1996 04:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 04:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605061134.GAA14203@fastlane.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Bert Pool To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: [snip] Bill Beaty said: > >One person on VORTEX-L believes that water molecules have a metastable >state, a sort of delayed phosphorescence effect that is pumped up by >ultraviolet radiation, and then is released as heat when the water is >stimulated somehow. As if the water was a fuel which could provide excess >heat. If true, then many water-based o/u devices are actually running off >of delayed solar energy. Which is the same situation with coal, coal >having once been been ancient plants storing sunlight energy. If water >acts as a fuel, then water-based o/u devices which recycle the same water >would be expected to run for awhile then fail mysteriously. O/U devices >which have a continuous input of "new" water would run forever. And any >water that flowed through this latter type of device would become >"depleted" water, which could not be used to run O/U devices and might >have all kinds of other weird properties. > >The water theory was offered as an explanation for Cold Fusion, where a CF >cell was acting as an electrical device for stimulating water into dumping >its metastable internal energy. > >William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Bill, I might add that I know of some very recent work in the area of water research which has been submitted to one of the major physics review publications for peer review. If successfully reviewed, the work will soon be published. This research has found that one of the big "over-unity" phenomenon associated with water to be precisely what you describe: there is a way to release stored solar energy from water. It now seems that conventional scientists are willing to admit that water contains an extra bit of energy (originally of solar origin) which can be released from the water and which kept appearing as "excess" energy in carefully controlled experiments. When the researchers had confronted themselves with absolutely irrefutable evidence that more energy was coming out than was going in, a fellow researcher in a different field was able to tie these results up by invoking a new theory that water absorbs solar energy during the evaporative/condensive phases in nature. The fact that water contains extra energy which can be released, is, I believe, pretty well accepted by most people now, but I don't believe that the solar connection has been _proven_ beyond a doubt. The "absorbed solar energy" theory is a very tidy way for science to account for the extra energy, but is it _the_ source of the excess energy? More work will have to be done. The end result is that water does contain a surplus of energy that can be released, but the process used in these experiments would be difficult to implement to produce usable work. Personally, I don't care whether the surplus energy coming out of the several different water based f/e devices today comes from solar energy or from the aether. If the excess energy stored within water can be released and used to get me off the power grid, then I am ready to embrace the energy and it's technology, regardless of it's origin. Bert nikki@fastlane.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 06:17:04 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA19935; Mon, 6 May 1996 06:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 06:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Todd Heywood To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron engine O/U? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A > One person on VORTEX-L believes that water molecules have a metastable > state, a sort of delayed phosphorescence effect that is pumped up by > ultraviolet radiation, and then is released as heat when the water is > stimulated somehow. As if the water was a fuel which could provide excess > heat. If true, then many water-based o/u devices are actually running off > of delayed solar energy. Which is the same situation with coal, coal > having once been been ancient plants storing sunlight energy. If water > acts as a fuel, then water-based o/u devices which recycle the same water > would be expected to run for awhile then fail mysteriously. O/U devices > which have a continuous input of "new" water would run forever. And any > water that flowed through this latter type of device would become > "depleted" water, which could not be used to run O/U devices and might > have all kinds of other weird properties. > > The water theory was offered as an explanation for Cold Fusion, where a CF > cell was acting as an electrical device for stimulating water into dumping > its metastable internal energy. Is there any further info available (write-ups in th archive?), or was this just disorganizaed discussion? More info would be interesting. There are interesting parallels with the "memory of water" episode, where it seems that water retains chemical info even after being diluted to the point that no molecules initially conveying the chemical info in an original solution remain. (Homeopathy.) Todd Heywood From bilb@eskimo.com Mon May 6 07:45:31 1996 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA06476 for ; Mon, 6 May 1996 07:45:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by eskimo.com (8.7.5) id HAA20290; Mon, 6 May 1996 07:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 07:44:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron engine O/U? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 6 May 1996, Todd Heywood wrote: > > One person on VORTEX-L believes that water molecules have a metastable > > state, a sort of delayed phosphorescence effect that is pumped up by > > Is there any further info available (write-ups in th archive?), or > was this just disorganizaed discussion? > > More info would be interesting. There are interesting parallels with > the "memory of water" episode, where it seems that water retains > chemical info even after being diluted to the point that no > molecules initially conveying the chemical info in an original > solution remain. (Homeopathy.) The "u/v water storage" idea was the pet theory of one VORTEX-L member, from compuserve I think, and a small discussion continued for a few weeks about it. I don't recall which month it was, but you can search the mail archives at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wvort.html ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 16:51:15 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA16156; Mon, 6 May 1996 16:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605061315.IAA21559@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: How to Catch a "Tiger" by his Tale. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >What is a 'Kromrey Generator"? > > Hi, It is a device patented by Raymond Kromrey (U.S. Pat. No. 3,374,376) which utilizes 2 sets of coils wound in a certain way, spinning within a field produced by 2 magnets (either permanent or electromagnets; the patent refers to both.) It has similarities and diferences to a conventional generator. Supposedly the design was altered for the patent so that it wouldn't come across as a free energy device, just a highly-efficient generator. John Bedini had a tabletop version shown in his paper "Experiments With a Kromrey & a Brandt-Tesla Converter Built By John Bedini". Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 17:07:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA19630; Mon, 6 May 1996 16:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 16:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605061555.RAA01133@bure.abc.se> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: conny.ohstrom@abc.se (Conny Ohstrom) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TESLAFE & ELECTROSTATIC ENERGY X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I got an idea while sitting in the bath doing alpha meditiation: What whould happen if I make a machine that have two antennas that each is connected to a metal plate. In front of these two plates, there is another plate. Between these plates there are hanging a ball in a small wire. The balls will transfer any charge built up on the first plates from the antennas, to the second plates. Thus always keeping the second plates charged, as long as there is enough energy in the air. Hmm, I thought, that could be a good mechanical dowsing-rod. And cheap! Then, clear out of the sky, an idea came to me: What if this was the way Tesla made his car battery work? references: http://www.mip.berkeley.edu/images/physics/D+10+28.gif (electrostatic doorbell bangs between charged plates) http://www.mip.berkeley.edu/images/physics/D+10+26.gif (Various Leyden jars to show) http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/teslafe1.asc http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/teslafe2.asc http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/TESLAFE2.GIF http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/diagrams/TESLAFE1.GIF http://www.ibg.uu.se/elektromagnum/physics/KeelyNet/energy/70l7gt.asc (texts&pictures how some think that Tesla made his car battery) My comments on the calculations made in the file TESLAFE2.ASC: The rods where _sticking_out_ 3 inches out of the box that had the following measurement: 24, 12 and 6 inches. If the rods were used as antennas, then the _whole_length_ of the rods must be known. The rods could be of any length, from 3 to 24 inches and still fit into the box. exit --- Dont steal, the government hates competition! Conny Ohstrom; Vita liljans vag 57, 3tr; S-127 34 SKARHOLMEN; SWEDEN; phone: +46-8-978055; Email: conny.ohstrom@abc.se From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 17:29:16 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA21055; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605061555.RAA01135@bure.abc.se> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: conny.ohstrom@abc.se (Conny Ohstrom) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: electrostatic motors & pyramids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Jules Brovont (102012.1500@CompuServe.COM) wrote: >What is a 'CURRY/HARTMAN/LEYDEN-cross' ? How can you find one with a dowsing >rod? (LEYDEN should have been "LEY"?) Either try locating a book about dowsing. Or try contacting "The American Dowsing Soceiety". (Im not a experienced dowser, just starting to dowse) Dr Ernst Hartman found that the earth if covered by a rectangular energy field consisting of lines going north-south and east-west. In north-south direction there is a line each 2m, and in east-west direction there is a line each 2.5m. The lines are about 20cm wide. The north-south lines could deviate from geographic north-south line with as much as 10-15 degree. Dr Namfred Curry, who is a another German, found another energy field going notheast-southwest and northwest-southeast. Distance between the lines are 3.5m. The lines are about 21 to 50cm wide. I have a pair of L-rods made from a 35cm long steel wire bent in a 90 degree angle 10cm from one end of the wire. The shorter part is mounted into a brass pipe like a handle, so the rod easily can be turned around. When I 'dowse', I hold the L-rods pointing straight forward. And then I start going slowly forward until the rods suddenly starts to turn. I mark the spot on the ground, and then try to reach the same spot from the opposite side. If I continue marking these energy fields, I get a raster of lines crossing each other. The Cheop pyramid is placed on a combined HARTMAN/CURRY cross facing north. >I am very interseted in the effect of the pyramids as I have read about before. >I would really appreciate any more info you could give me! Thanx! :) I think that the pyramid, or actually the _shape_ of the pyramid acts like a natural antenna picking up a energy constantly present in the air. Ive read a book about pyramids where they built wireframed pyramid to preserv fresh food, meditate in, cure illness, sleep more effectivly... I whish I could give you more info about it. I suggest that you buy a book about it. exit --- Dont steal, the government hates competition! Conny Ohstrom; Vita liljans vag 57, 3tr; S-127 34 SKARHOLMEN; SWEDEN; phone: +46-8-978055; Email: conny.ohstrom@abc.se From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 6 17:30:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA23728; Mon, 6 May 1996 17:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <009A1EE8.7E8607C0.15913@krysia.uni.lodz.pl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: awronka@krysia.uni.lodz.pl To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: aura cameras - questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi my name is Andrew Wronka. I have some informations about so-called aura cameras from Progen Co. I am a physicist from Lodz in Poland and those informations are too general for me. I am looking for details on topics: 1/ what thay measure (energy of electromagnetic fields from acupuncture points?)2/ What is a meter of electromagnetic field ? 3/ how thay transformate measured values in different colors ? (different vibratory rates?) 4/ Is Guy Coggins a pioneer of aura cameras ? 5/ Do you know another types of aura cameras and producers ? 6/ What about another biofeedback devices ? Who is a producer IVBA (the Interactive Visual Brainwave Analyser) and SLEDs (Sound and Light Enterainment devices) ? I will be thankful if someone help me with those questions. Best regards, Andrew Wronka. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 03:49:28 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA06763; Tue, 7 May 1996 03:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 6 May 1996, Bert Pool wrote: > [snip] > > Bill Beaty said: > > > > >One person on VORTEX-L believes that water molecules have a metastable > >state, a sort of delayed phosphorescence effect that is pumped up by > >ultraviolet radiation, and then is released as heat when the water is > >stimulated somehow. As if the water was a fuel which could provide excess > >heat. If true, then many water-based o/u devices are actually running off > >of delayed solar energy. Which is the same situation with coal, coal > >having once been been ancient plants storing sunlight energy. If water > >acts as a fuel, then water-based o/u devices which recycle the same water > >would be expected to run for awhile then fail mysteriously. O/U devices > >which have a continuous input of "new" water would run forever. And any > >water that flowed through this latter type of device would become > >"depleted" water, which could not be used to run O/U devices and might > >have all kinds of other weird properties. > > > >The water theory was offered as an explanation for Cold Fusion, where a CF > >cell was acting as an electrical device for stimulating water into dumping > >its metastable internal energy. > > > >William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd > > > Bill, I might add that I know of some very recent work in the area of water > research which has been submitted to one of the major physics review > publications for peer review. If successfully reviewed, the work will soon > be published. > > This research has found that one of the big "over-unity" phenomenon > associated with water to be precisely what you describe: there is a way to > release stored solar energy from water. It now seems that conventional > scientists are willing to admit that water contains an extra bit of energy > (originally of solar origin) which can be released from the water and which > kept appearing as "excess" energy in carefully controlled experiments. When > the researchers had confronted themselves with absolutely irrefutable > evidence that more energy was coming out than was going in, a fellow > researcher in a different field was able to tie these results up by invoking > a new theory that water absorbs solar energy during the > evaporative/condensive phases in nature. The fact that water contains extra > energy which can be released, is, I believe, pretty well accepted by most > people now, but I don't believe that the solar connection has been _proven_ > beyond a doubt. The "absorbed solar energy" theory is a very tidy way for > science to account for the extra energy, but is it _the_ source of the > excess energy? More work will have to be done. The end result is that > water does contain a surplus of energy that can be released, but the process > used in these experiments would be difficult to implement to produce usable > work. Personally, I don't care whether the surplus energy coming out of the > several different water based f/e devices today comes from solar energy or > from the aether. If the excess energy stored within water can be released > and used to get me off the power grid, then I am ready to embrace the energy > and it's technology, regardless of it's origin. > > > Bert > nikki@fastlane.net -------------------- > When steam condenses into water it releases more calories than water requires to turn into steam. This is a measurable, undeniable fact. Unfortunately, it takes more work to turn water into steam than the conversion from steam to water will return. Newton wins again... But, hopefully, not for long. Starship ----------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 03:49:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA07318; Tue, 7 May 1996 03:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: All things in "MODERATION" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Bill, Moderation can be taken to excess. The Buddha said (and I'm paraphrasing) "The best way is the middle way." Yet, how can you know the middle way unless you've gone to the left and to the right of it? Starship ----------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 03:48:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA07505; Tue, 7 May 1996 03:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605070306.NAA28575@peg.apc.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: aura cameras - questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Hi my name is Andrew Wronka. I have some informations about >so-called aura cameras from Progen Co. I am a physicist from Lodz >in Poland and those informations are too general for me. > I am looking for details on topics: >1/ what thay measure (energy of electromagnetic fields from acupuncture points?)2/ What is a meter of electromagnetic field ? >3/ how thay transformate measured values in different colors ? > (different vibratory rates?) >4/ Is Guy Coggins a pioneer of aura cameras ? >5/ Do you know another types of aura cameras and producers ? >6/ What about another biofeedback devices ? Who is a producer IVBA (the > Interactive Visual Brainwave Analyser) and SLEDs (Sound and Light > Enterainment devices) ? > I will be thankful if someone help me with those questions. > Best regards, Andrew Wronka. > > Andrew...I've got a guy selling aura (Kirlian) cameras on my mall. Click on http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking And look down the index page for the storefront called EXCLUSIVE PRODUCTS jIM From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 03:47:14 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA07781; Tue, 7 May 1996 03:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:41:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605070312.NAA00148@peg.apc.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: electrostatic motors & pyramids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Jules Brovont (102012.1500@CompuServe.COM) wrote: >>What is a 'CURRY/HARTMAN/LEYDEN-cross' ? How can you find one with a dowsing >>rod? >(LEYDEN should have been "LEY"?) Either try locating a book about dowsing. >Or try >contacting "The American Dowsing Soceiety". > There is an excellent L-ROD dowsing kit on the market with instructional manual that covers earth energies. It's called THE DOWSING ROD KIT by Sig Lonegren I bought in from a bookshop in the US but I've also seen it here in Australia. The kit contains a set of rods and the manual. Jim Francis http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 03:53:46 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA08038; Tue, 7 May 1996 03:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Tim Chandler To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron steam engine? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 04:13 AM 5/6/96 -0700, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >How long did the batteries last, that powered the magnetron ? > >Did you use the car batteries for powering it ? >So was the car battery also charged again via the car generator ? Hi Stefan, As I mentioned prior, our experiemnt was alittle different. It was basically the same theory at work, but we used different means to arrive at the end result. Rather than using a battery, we took the time to modify the existing ignition coil setup on the engine, in order that it would properly trigger/fire the magnetron. For our first few runs we did however use an external power supply to power the filiment heater on the magnetron (approx. 3VAC), but eventually that too was supplied by the ignition system. So we really had no battery, to go dead, the power was generated and used... I personally did not handle the major modifications to the ignition system, and I do not recall exactly what they were. I have however skoke with the guy who did redesign it, he said he would draw up a schematic and send it to me when he finishes up with his finals (which are all this week). Once I get the schematic I will post it to the list. Thanks, Tim o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | Timothy A. Chandler || M.S.Physics/B.S.Chemistry | o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | NASA-Langley Research Center || George Mason University | | Department of Energy || Department of Physics | | FRT/Alpha - NASALaRC/DOE JRD/OPM || Department of Chemistry | | CHOCT FR Designation #82749156/MG09|| OPC-EFC | o------------------------------------oo---------------------------------o | Private Email Address: tchand@slip.net | o-----------------------------------------------------------------------o From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 04:05:26 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA08339; Tue, 7 May 1996 03:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605070336.UAA30375@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 03:37 PM 5/5/96 -0700, you wrote: >David, > >There is a place called the "Oregon Vortex" just north of the >California-Oregon border about 20 minutes off of US Interstate 5 near >Grant's Pass. > >It is a spherical area where compasses don't work properly and neither do >conventional surveying methods. Visual perception is also affected. One >example: picture an eight foot long one-by-twelve lying flat on the ground >with a bubble-type level available to verify for yourself that the board is >flat on the ground. If two people of equal height stand on opposite ends of >the board one will appear several inches taller than the other. If they >reverse positions they reverse heights. It does not matter where the >observer stands ... you can completely walk around the pair and the illusion >persists, always with the "taller" one on the same end. The board is in the >middle of a cleared area and not against a special back-drop. The effect is >also capturable on film. Another demonstration is to hand someone a >plumb-bob for reference and then tell them to close their eyes and stand up >straight. Invariably the subject stands up about 15 degress off of true as >related by the bob. They supply the bob and they pick the spot for the demo, >so perhaps it is a trick done with magnets. Either that or they chose the >spot for the strength of the effect. It is supposed to diminish as you >approach the edge of the sphere. > >As I recall, the area was several hundred feet in diameter. > >Sorry it's not in the Northeast, but it is in textbooks and encyclopedias. > >Mary Carleton >maryc@inc-g.com > >>I am looking for places within the USA that exhibit measurable >>spatial and/or temporal anomalies. For instance, there is a place >>in Wisconsin known as Rock Lake where, supposedly, light is bent and >>the trees grow only at a slant. >> >>Does anyone out there know of any other places? >>More specifically, any places in the North East, like the NYC area? >> >>David Rosignoli >>drdaveor@enter.net >> > > Stuff literally "seems" to roll uphill there. AND NOBODY CAN TELL FOR SURE, WHETHER OR NOT IT IS. I've been there and there is no doubt that the place is weird gravitationally, magnetically, and optically. It is easy to accept the gravitational and magnetic anomolies of the place, since we cannot directly "perceive" gravity and magnetic fields, but it is extremely unacceptable to one's nervous system to have a fundamental distortion in the optical field which is COMPLETELY UNACCOUNTABLE FOR. It blows one's concept of "objective reality" because one cannot escape the paradox of a fundamental contradiction in the place. As far as I am aware, nobody has figured it out. You can walk right into the center of the vortex at the one in Oregon. It is no big deal and you don't "feel" anything or "see" anything is particular. But visual perception of phenomenon inside the vortex is definitely weirded out. Somebody started to build a cabin on the site a very long time ago which is probably the only reason it got discovered. They must have gotton quite "spooked". There is another place, quite famous, in Santa Barbara, California. I have never been inside that one. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 03:53:33 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA08582; Tue, 7 May 1996 03:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 03:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605070453.VAA06463@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: "JAVA AS BLACK WIDOW OF THE WEB" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NEWS ITEM ABOUT A SEMINAL REPORT BEING ISSUED BY COMPUTER SCIENTISTS FROM PRINCETON UNIVERSITY. IT IS OF IMPERATIVE CONCERN TO ALL PEOPLE WHO USE THE INTERNET. You may remember that I squeeled like a stuck pig earlier this year after may first encounter with a Java script website. Since then, I have found tamer sites but my opinion of Java has not changed. If you are concerned about the viability of the internet as a cooperative medium, you should review the following article. The computer scientists at Princeton are also quite concerned about Java, as the article explains. I relay this information because it is of fundamental concern to all users of the internet. The use of Java as a technology may force a great deal of users back behind the "doors" we've been struggling to get through. This may be mandated especially for all institutional and corporate users of the internet. The "door" may very well take the form of filters which may permit browsers to connect only to institutional sites or sites which have been pre-registered to be clean and free of dangerious Java practices. This fundamentally threatens the great sense of connected cooperation which the web has engendered on an international basis and destroys the bloom of the excitement of trying to pioneer a system of open exchange. In the media we keep hearing about how "cool" Java is and how "cool" the sites are that use it, and how "cool" it is to catch the Java wave and how "cool" it is to know about this stuff. This is all unmitigated sophomoric lunacy by juvenile mentalities WHO ARE DRIVING WAY TOO FAST IN THE COMPUTER LANE. The issue is clear, in my opinion, and we should ask Sun computer system and Netscape to suspend Java from the web. Java is not a web tool and should not be implemented as such. Only html, codices approved and sanctioned by non-profit international cooperative agencies, should be be implemented via www servers. Java should be implemented by commercial sites on something other than www servers. from Home Page Press Nortech Software, Inc. Fort Lauderdale, Fla. 5/6/96 java free JAVA IS 'DEADLY BLACK WIDOW ON THE WEB,' GROUP SAYS Online Business Consultant FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- "Don't trust Java online" -- that's the message from computer and Internet security watchdogs in response to reports that "hostile" Java applets are stalking the WWW. These malicious applets of the popular Web page programming language can destroy data, interfere with mission critical intranets, and gain access to sensitive data, the experts say. "The situation is scary," said Stephen Cobb, Director of Special Projects for the National Computer Security Association (NCSA). "Software companies are releasing products on the Internet without even considering the hacker perspective. Enterprise IT managers have to understand there is a real danger allowing users to freely access the WWW. They have to set up policy now to prevent users from downloading malicious applets and viruses. Users should only be allowed to access trusted domains and Web sites." "A malicious 'applet' can be written to perform any action that the legitimate user can do," according to the NCSA. "The security enhancements announced by Sun Microsystems and Netscape do not fix this flaw. CERT (Computer Emergency Response Teams) recommends disabling Java in Netscape Navigator [only Netscape browsers are at issue] and not to use Sun's 'appletviewer' to browse untrusted Web sites until patches are made available from the vendors." The warnings apply to Netscape Navigator 2.0 and 2.01, and Sun's HotJava browser. Other observers seem to agree. According to a white paper being released by researchers at Princeton University, "The Java system in its current form cannot easily be made secure." The scientists, Drew Dean, Edward Felten and Dan Wallach, will present their white paper at the 1996 IEEE Symposium on Security, which starts in California Monday, May 6. According to the scientists, and other sources interviewed by Online Business Consultant (OBC), innocent surfers on the Web who download Java applets into Netscape's Navigator and Sun's HotJava browser, risk having "hostile" applets interfere with their computers (consuming RAM and CPU cycles) or, worse, having an applet connect to a third party on the Internet to upload sensitive information from the user's computer. The scientists say that even firewalls, software designed to fence-off LANs and Intranets from cyberthugs, are ineffective against the malicious Java code ... "because the attack is launched from behind the firewall." This information was made public some weeks back. However, the browsing public -- and particularly online business users -- are ignorant of the Java risks. In a survey conducted by OBC the vast majority of Netscape users had no idea that Java applets presented a grave risk, and many felt the proponents of Java as an Internet technology, particularly Sun Microsystems, Inc. and Netscape Communications Corporation, were not paying enough attention to the issue. "I have to report this information to my senior executives," said one IT manager. "They are especially anxious to have clarity on the (Java) security issue." "They are hoping the security issues will just go away," said another responder, one of the few who has researched the security issue. "But it will not. The hackers will continue to find the loopholes and exploit the opportunities." OBC also interviewed hackers who have designed Java applets to turn cancerous at a future date. Said one hacker: "Even legitimate Java applets can be targeted on the Web and attacked. I have written a Java virus that changes one line of code in a Java applet to render it useless." [A sample of this type of hostile code is included in the complete Java report in the May issue of OBC] A computer security expert, Mark Ladue, has set up a "Hostile Applets" site on the Internet. The site is a free service to alert business to the potential dangers. "I've read that article by Dean, Felten, and Wallach, and I agreed with what they had to say as far as they went, but I would paint the picture a little more darkly. It's to the business community that they (Java applets) pose the most serious threat." Back in March the Princeton group released the following Java report to Sun Microsystems, Netscape and Cern: "We have discovered a serious security problem with Netscape Navigator's 2.0 Java implementation. The problem is also present in the 1.0 release of the Java Development Kit from Sun. An applet is normally allowed to connect only to the host from which it was loaded. However, this restriction is not properly enforced. A malicious applet can open a connection to an arbitrary host on the Internet. At this point, bugs in any TCP/IP-based network service can be exploited. We have implemented (as a proof of concept) an exploitation of an old sendmail bug [to reproduce the problem]. " Sun issued a patch that plugs the possibility of "spoofing." Netscape modified its software (in version 2.00). However, Netscape's Navigator is readily available in stores and countless millions of World Wide Web users have no idea they are at serious risk. To date OBC has been unable to obtain an official response from Sun or Netscape. The following security claim is extracted from their original white paper on Java: "Java is intended to be used in networked/distributed environments. Toward that end, a lot of emphasis has been placed on security. Java enables the construction of virus-free, tamper-free systems. The authentication techniques are based on public-key encryption." However, the Princeton group states otherwise, "If the user viewing the (Java) applet is behind a firewall, this attack can be used against any other machine behind the same firewall. The firewall will fail to defend against (Java) attacks on internal networks, because the attack originates behind the firewall. "The immediate fix for this problem is to disable Java from Netscape's 'Security Preferences' dialog. An HTTP proxy server could also disable Java applets by refusing to fetch Java '.class' files. We've sent a more detailed description of this bug to CERT, Sun, and Netscape." In light of this information, OBC feels it is prudent to avoid using the Netscape Navigator browsers and logging on to insecure Java sites on the Internet until complete safety can be confirmed. The complete Java report in the May issue of OBC also exposes the mounting dangers of email being attacked by "Trojan horse" Java applets. -30- (Home Page Press, Inc. is at http://www.hpp.com.) ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 09:46:17 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA14251; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Alexander Lotoski To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Any information, http sites, journals, files or articles on the subject of water having extra energy and homeopathic effects (displaying chem effects at extremly low conc. of solute) would be greatly appreciated. I'm considering doing some experiements here at U of W... Some background info and starting points for research would be greatly appreciated. Thanx John Lotoski [Chem/Phys U of W] From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 09:47:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA14729; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: All things in "MODERATION" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Bill: Thank you for your issuance of postion as indicated in your email "All things in MODERATION". Hopefully this will reduce, if not eliminate, the frequency in which list subscribers are subjected to insulting comments by other subscribers. Thanks again! Sincerely, Evan Soule From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 09:46:55 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA15034; Tue, 7 May 1996 09:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 09:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605071623.JAA02772@wolves.EBay.Sun.COM> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael.Miller@Ebay.Sun.COM (Michael D. Miller) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > At 03:37 PM 5/5/96 -0700, you wrote: > >David, > > > >There is a place called the "Oregon Vortex" just north of the > >California-Oregon border about 20 minutes off of US Interstate 5 near > >Grant's Pass. > > > >It is a spherical area where compasses don't work properly and neither do > >conventional surveying methods. Visual perception is also affected. One > >example: picture an eight foot long one-by-twelve lying flat on the ground > >with a bubble-type level available to verify for yourself that the board is > >flat on the ground. If two people of equal height stand on opposite ends of > >the board one will appear several inches taller than the other. If they > >reverse positions they reverse heights. It does not matter where the > >observer stands ... you can completely walk around the pair and the illusion > >persists, always with the "taller" one on the same end. The board is in the > >middle of a cleared area and not against a special back-drop. The effect is > >also capturable on film. Another demonstration is to hand someone a > >plumb-bob for reference and then tell them to close their eyes and stand up > >straight. Invariably the subject stands up about 15 degress off of true as > >related by the bob. They supply the bob and they pick the spot for the demo, > >so perhaps it is a trick done with magnets. Either that or they chose the > >spot for the strength of the effect. It is supposed to diminish as you > >approach the edge of the sphere. > > > >As I recall, the area was several hundred feet in diameter. > > > >Sorry it's not in the Northeast, but it is in textbooks and encyclopedias. > > > >Mary Carleton > >maryc@inc-g.com This sounds exactly like the Mystery Spot in Santa Cruz, here in California. I always wanted to take my own level to make sure that the spot is really level or it may not be level but effects levels to show it is level. They not only have the two people stand showing how one looks shorter than the other, but they also have a board which is tilted up and if you place a ball at the lower end, the ball rolls uphill. They have other demostrations at this spot. I have also seen a short film of a spot in Canada where you put your car in neutral and it seems to be pulled uphill. ._-_, ... ... -=_* =- ... ... :.: : : ,'/'`\ : `' : ... : :,: .::. // : :`': : : : : :.' : :' ` _ ' ____________//_________:.:__:.:_:.:_:.:``:_`:.:_____- (_) -________ ~ ____,----/ |_ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ -' ________ `-.__ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ _ ^ ,',---\\--\ `-.____ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ' c"} \`-____\\__\ `----.________________,-----______' ,(_). `~~~~~~~~~' michael.miller@ebay.sun.com -"- SUN MICROsystems--MIL12-04--2550 GARCIA AVE--MOUNTAIN VIEW CA 94043-1100 The original is unfaithful to the translation. -- Jorge Luis Borges From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 17:17:40 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA07950; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Todd Heywood To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 7 May 1996, John Alexander Lotoski wrote: > > > Any information, http sites, journals, files or articles on the > subject of water having extra energy and homeopathic effects (displaying > chem effects at extremly low conc. of solute) would be greatly > appreciated. I'm considering doing some experiements here at U of W... > Some background info and starting points for research would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanx > > John Lotoski > > [Chem/Phys U of W] > Here is something I just posted to vortex-l. A web search on "memory of water" doesn't turn up much. Anyone else? Todd Heywood ========= I've been surprised that not many people in the US seem to be aware of the "memory of water" fiasco that Nature/Maddox were embroiled in about the same time as the cold fusion thing was going on. Here is a short review of a book on this, which seems to only be available in Europe (a friend sent it to me after I got "never heard of it" from a number of US publishers). There=20 was also a TV show I saw when I was living in the UK a couple of years ago, called "Heretics", profiling Benveniste, Rupert Sheldrake, Linus Pauling, Eric Laithwaite (for gyroscope work), etc. (I can't remember if Pons/Flieschman were in there). Maddox was interviewed a few times on this, and I remember thinking, "what arrogance". [My comments in brackets] Book review by Brian Josephson published originally in the Times Higher Education Supplement, issue of Dec. 15th. 1995. (c) Times Supplements 1995 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - THE MEMORY OF WATER BY MICHEL SCHIFF Thorsons/HarperCollins, 166 pp, =A314.99 ISBN 0 7225 3262 8 Published 23 October 1995 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Deserving the appellation "devastating critique" is Michel Schiff's "The Memory of Water: Homeopathy and the Battle of Ideas in the New Science". Technical in places but in general explained in such a way as to be accessible to the general reader, it details the struggles that new ideas in science have had and are still having to get a hearing, faced as they are with the variety of means, normally used in an unexceptionable manner, that editors, referees and review panels, and so on have at their disposal to prevent work that they consider unsatisfactory from being published or funded. The general directions of the author's critique may be indicated by a selection of his headings: "it is impossible _a priori_, hence it never happened", "debunking as a substitute for scientific arguments", "censorship as part of the normal scientific process", "mock attempts to duplicate an experiment", and "A scientific exploration gets paralysed by the burden of proof". As a historical example, Schiff cites the case of the Hungarian obstetrician Ignazius Semmelweis, who 20 years before the discovery of bacteria by Pasteur showed that deaths from puerperal fever could be reduced if the doctors were to wash their hands with antiseptic before attending their patients and was ridiculed for his proposals, and as a current parallel the suppression of evidence gained by Schiff's colleague Jacques Benveniste that particular kinds of saline solution might have adverse effects on patients in whom it was injected. Much of the discussion relates to Benveniste's work on homeopathy and the "memory of water", which expressions, the author observes in his introduction, are "capable of turning a peaceful and intelligent person into a violently irrational one". Benveniste's _in vitro_ experiments on homeopathically prepared samples met with a hostile response from _Nature_ and its referees when he submitted the work for publication there, but since they could not point to any errors in it the Editor eventually agreed to publication under the curious condition that _after_ publication Benveniste would allow a team of investigators to carry out investigations at his laboratory. Schiff lists a number of errors that he claims are present in the published investigators' report, as also in published reports of failure to confirm the Benveniste results by other scientists. Publication of a _successful_ replication by Benveniste was refused on the basis of a referee's report which, according to Schiff, contained elementary mistakes such as confusing error and variance (i.e. error squared). [Note that the "team of investigators" consisted of Maddox (a journalist), James Randi (a magician), and a "fraud expert" whose name escapes me at the moment, but who was a referee who adamantly opposed publication of the paper. Hardly an objective group.] From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 17:31:03 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA11371; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605071816.AA15091@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: John (Starship) wrote: >When steam condenses into water it releases more calories than water >requires to turn into steam. This is a measurable, undeniable >fact. > >Unfortunately, it takes more work to turn water into steam than the >conversion from steam to water will return. Could you please explain the controverse between these two sentences? First you write condensing releases more energy than steaming costs, the next line you write the opposite. Timothy van der Linden (T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 17:38:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA13214; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605071816.AA15096@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: aura cameras - questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Andrew, > Hi my name is Andrew Wronka. I have some informations about >so-called aura cameras from Progen Co. I am a physicist from Lodz >in Poland and those informations are too general for me. > I am looking for details on topics: >1/ what thay measure (energy of electromagnetic fields from acupuncture > points?) >2/ What is a meter of electromagnetic field ? >3/ how thay transformate measured values in different colors ? > (different vibratory rates?) >4/ Is Guy Coggins a pioneer of aura cameras ? >5/ Do you know another types of aura cameras and producers ? >6/ What about another biofeedback devices ? Who is a producer IVBA (the > Interactive Visual Brainwave Analyser) and SLEDs (Sound and Light > Enterainment devices) ? Lots of questions, I've only a possible answer to question 1. Some time ago I tried finding several articles about Kirlian photography. Most of the aparatus's (aparati?) that where used involved generators that create pulses of high voltage (20-100 kV) radio frequency waves (100 kHz - 2 Mhz). The subject (often tree leaves) lies on one of the two capacitor plates to which the EM-wave is applied. The film is attached to the other capacitor plate. Most researchers have found that the tuning need to be rather precise and varies much per aparatus. The presence of the high voltage field creates ions (the way in which that happens is a bit more complicated). These ions and electrons alone can create patterns on the photographic film, but besides that some of the excitated ions start to emit light (because electron fall back in lower orbits). I could tell more but it may be easier for you to read the articles that I collected. If you like the references of where to find them, write me. Most articles are 10 to 20 years old, so if there are new developments I don't know of them. To name a few of the magazines: Science, New Scientist and the American Scientific. Regards Timothy (T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 17:43:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA14038; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9604078314.AA831498528@westatpo.westat.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: FLORESI1@westatpo.westat.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: hmmm, interesting but I'm skeptical, this is why... I know of a place called Uncle's Chueco Cabin. At the entrance there is some cow bones, and the legend says that a meteorite killed the cow, and in the last minute, the cow curse the cabin. The effect for some people there is very impressive. Some get so disoriented that almost throw up. Inside, you can see water that defies gravity, optical illusions, etc. Is this a unique place? nope, it's in a amusement park at the outskirts in Mexico City. Through a very ingenious set of backgrounds, floors with some slope, one can lose the sense of what is the real vertical plane. Your body pushed by gravity and your mind that tries to align to the "vertical" references inside the house. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet-e-mail Date: 05/07/96 06:51 AM At 03:37 PM 5/5/96 -0700, you wrote: >David, > >There is a place called the "Oregon Vortex" just north of the >California-Oregon border about 20 minutes off of US Interstate 5 near >Grant's Pass. > >It is a spherical area where compasses don't work properly and neither do >conventional surveying methods. Visual perception is also affected. One >example: picture an eight foot long one-by-twelve lying flat on the ground >with a bubble-type level available to verify for yourself that the board is >flat on the ground. If two people of equal height stand on opposite ends of >the board one will appear several inches taller than the other. If they >reverse positions they reverse heights. It does not matter where the >observer stands ... you can completely walk around the pair and the illusion >persists, always with the "taller" one on the same end. The board is in the >middle of a cleared area and not against a special back-drop. The effect is >also capturable on film. Another demonstration is to hand someone a >plumb-bob for reference and then tell them to close their eyes and stand up >straight. Invariably the subject stands up about 15 degress off of true as >related by the bob. They supply the bob and they pick the spot for the demo, >so perhaps it is a trick done with magnets. Either that or they chose the >spot for the strength of the effect. It is supposed to diminish as you >approach the edge of the sphere. > >As I recall, the area was several hundred feet in diameter. > >Sorry it's not in the Northeast, but it is in textbooks and encyclopedias. > >Mary Carleton >maryc@inc-g.com > >>I am looking for places within the USA that exhibit measurable >>spatial and/or temporal anomalies. For instance, there is a place >>in Wisconsin known as Rock Lake where, supposedly, light is bent and >>the trees grow only at a slant. >> >>Does anyone out there know of any other places? >>More specifically, any places in the North East, like the NYC area? >> >>David Rosignoli >>drdaveor@enter.net >> > > Stuff literally "seems" to roll uphill there. AND NOBODY CAN TELL FOR SURE, WHETHER OR NOT IT IS. I've been there and there is no doubt that the place is weird gravitationally, magnetically, and optically. It is easy to accept the gravitational and magnetic anomolies of the place, since we cannot directly "perceive" gravity and magnetic fields, but it is extremely unacceptable to one's nervous system to have a fundamental distortion in the optical field which is COMPLETELY UNACCOUNTABLE FOR. It blows one's concept of "objective reality" because one cannot escape the paradox of a fundamental contradiction in the place. As far as I am aware, nobody has figured it out. You can walk right into the center of the vortex at the one in Oregon. It is no big deal and you don't "feel" anything or "see" anything is particular. But visual perception of phenomenon inside the vortex is definitely weirded out. Somebody started to build a cabin on the site a very long time ago which is probably the only reason it got discovered. They must have gotton quite "spooked". There is another place, quite famous, in Santa Barbara, California. I have never been inside that one. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 17:55:15 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA14961; Tue, 7 May 1996 17:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605072220.AA02217@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >This sounds exactly like the Mystery Spot in Santa Cruz, here in California. >I always wanted to take my own level to make sure that the spot is really level >or it may not be level but effects levels to show it is level. For those who are going there, a gardenhose with water may be a great level for larger distances. Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 20:12:21 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA09703; Tue, 7 May 1996 19:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 19:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605080010.UAA20448@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: nsheldon@voyager.net (Jim Sheldon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: electrostatic motors & pyramids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>Jules Brovont (102012.1500@CompuServe.COM) wrote: >>>What is a 'CURRY/HARTMAN/LEYDEN-cross' ? How can you find one with a dowsing >>>rod? >>(LEYDEN should have been "LEY"?) Either try locating a book about dowsing. >>Or try >>contacting "The American Dowsing Soceiety". >> > >There is an excellent L-ROD dowsing kit on the market with instructional >manual that covers earth energies. >It's called THE DOWSING ROD KIT by Sig Lonegren > >I bought in from a bookshop in the US but I've also seen it here in Australia. > >The kit contains a set of rods and the manual. > >Jim Francis >http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking > > >As an experienced dowser Anybody can dowse, all you need is a couple of old coat hangers (I like brazing rod) and some confidence, You can check out books at your local Library for free, You don't need any kit. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 20:21:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA10577; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605080028.UAA22591@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: nsheldon@voyager.net (Jim Sheldon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: bound X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >> age = 43 >> name = Wesley Glenn Johnson >> >> I need help in locating a wishing circuit as used to fight a >>Japanese beetle infestation in Washinton state back in 1959? >> >> Can you help me my quest to find the original copy of the >>circuit as used in the experiment, kind sir?? If so then your >>help will be greatly appreicated!!! As it might help save a >>life?? >This was sent to me, and ideas? >-- >Andrew Cantino--Sig Master for The Great World of Science sig. >>>gopher://seorf.ohiou.edu:2001/hGET/seorf.stuff/Sci/xx053/Homepage.html >My Download page: >>>http://members.tripod.com/~cantino/magic.html > > depands on what he wants it for, if he just wants to get rid of Japanese beetles I've found that Peiking ducks will eat the daylights out of them while they are still in the grub stage From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 20:27:00 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA13427; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960507204859_289325248@emout09.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: NLSilliman@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Soule' advice to read the book X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I come to this arena with a bias against Joseph Newman, which I acquired as a result of reading his book. I suggest that Even Soule's advice to this group was a bad idea. For those who have not made up their minds (and have not read the book) I have an offer. I will give my copy of the book (I can't ethically sell the book, as there is no literary or scientific value) to anyone willing to pay the postage. I have the first version published in 1984. Norm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 20:39:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA14119; Tue, 7 May 1996 20:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: st9546np@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (me) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: aura cameras - questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I wouldn't mind the references of where to find the articles you've collected on aura cameras in general and Kirlian photography in particular. Thank you in advance. Hugh McLaughlin From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 23:39:18 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA21574; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605080332.NAA05735@peg.apc.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: electrostatic motors & pyramids X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>There is an excellent L-ROD dowsing kit on the market with instructional >>manual that covers earth energies. >>It's called THE DOWSING ROD KIT by Sig Lonegren >> >>I bought in from a bookshop in the US but I've also seen it here in Australia. >> >>The kit contains a set of rods and the manual. >> >>Jim Francis >>http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking >> >> >>As an experienced dowser Anybody can dowse, all you need is a couple of >old coat hangers (I like brazing rod) and some confidence, You can check out >books at your local Library for free, You don't need any kit. > > Sure....but its great for a beginner to get all the info and rods in one package. I've got a deviceless dowsing page up on http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking/mindsrge.html Jim From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 7 23:40:12 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA21911; Tue, 7 May 1996 23:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 23:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605080157.VAA25719@ra.cs.ohiou.edu> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Science wig. sig." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Science X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: If you would like to receive a free trial membership to the on-line weekly magazine, Science: A way of Life, then send your FULL name and e-mail address to xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu You will receive a magazine by e-mail once a week for one month. If you like it, you must then send me $5 to continue your subscription. Science: A way of Life covers all types of science and technology. You will find sections like What's New, Clasified Ads, and Letters to the Editor. You will find articles on computers, technology, space, etc. You have no obligation to continue getting this. Try it, I'm sure you will like it. Andrew Cantino Editor of the internet magazine Science: A way of Life. xx053@seorf.ohiou.edu -- Andrew Cantino--Sig Master for The Great World of Science sig. >>gopher://seorf.ohiou.edu:2001/hGET/seorf.stuff/Sci/xx053/Homepage.html My Download page: >>http://members.tripod.com/~cantino/magic.html From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 01:37:59 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA10092; Wed, 8 May 1996 01:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 01:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605080833.BAA11554@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 05:33 PM 5/7/96 -0700, you wrote: > hmmm, interesting but I'm skeptical, this is why... > I know of a place called Uncle's Chueco Cabin. At the entrance there > is some cow bones, and the legend says that a meteorite killed the > cow, and in the last minute, the cow curse the cabin. The effect for > some people there is very impressive. Some get so disoriented that > almost throw up. Inside, you can see water that defies gravity, > optical illusions, etc. Is this a unique place? nope, it's in a > amusement park at the outskirts in Mexico City. Through a very > ingenious set of backgrounds, floors with some slope, one can lose the > sense of what is the real vertical plane. Your body pushed by gravity > and your mind that tries to align to the "vertical" references inside > the house. > > > >Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies >Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet-e-mail >Date: 05/07/96 06:51 AM From: FLORESI1@westatpo.westat.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ these are well established phenomenon. these are not off the wall reports. you are wasting your time to be sceptical. you should do a little research before announcing your scepticism. it is a bit like being sceptical that there is a moon revolving around the planet earth. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 03:30:02 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA19372; Wed, 8 May 1996 03:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 03:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605081015.AA04899@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: aura cameras - questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >I wouldn't mind the references of where to find the articles you've >collected on aura cameras in general and Kirlian photography in particular. >Thank you in advance. > Hugh McLaughlin - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Journal of Applied Physics, Vol. 44, No. 7, July 1973, pages 3102-3112 Corona discharge photography David G. Boylers and William A. Tiller - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Science, 15 October 1976, Vol. 194, No. 4262, pages 263-270 Image modulation in corona discharge photography (Moisture is a principal determinant of the form and color of Kirlian photographs of human subjects) John O. Pehek, Harry J. Kyler, David L. Faust - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - New Scientist, 25 April 1974, pages 160-163 Are psychoenergeric pictures possible? William A. Tiller - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Physiological Chemistry & Physics, 1980, Vol. 12, No. 4, pages 337-341 Magnetoelectric charge states of matter-energy. A second approximation. Part V. Plasmas considered as diffuse superconductive states with magnetoelectric symmetry Freeman W. Cope - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Physiological Chemistry & Physics, Vol. 12, No. 4, 1980, pages 343-347 Magnetoelectric charge states of matter-energy. A second approximation. Part VI. Kirlian high-voltage photographs of biological auras considered as manifestations of possible relativistic superconductive plasmas Freeman W. Cope - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Physiological Chemistry & Physics, Vol. 12, No. 4, 1980, pages 349-355 Magnetoelectric charge states of matter-energy. A second approximation. Part VII. Diffuse relativistic superconductive plasma. Measurable and non-measurable physical manifestations. Kirlian photography. Laser phenomena. Cosmic effects on chemical and biological systems Freeman W. Cope - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Elektor, October 1977, Vol. 3, No. 10, pages 5-8 Kirilan photography - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Journal of the institution of engineers (India) Electrical Engineering division, December 1979, Vol. 60, pl. EL-3, pages 61-66 A high voltage high frequency pulse generator for Kirlian photography J.K. Choudhury, P.C. Kejariwal. A. Chattopadhyay - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Journal of the institution of engineers (India) Electrical Engineering division, December 1979, Vol. 60, pl. EL-3, pages 67-73 Some novel aspects of phantom leaf effect in Kirlian photography J.K. Choudhury, P.C. Kejariwal. A. Chattopadhyay - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Journal of Photographic science, Jan-Feb 1987, Vol. 35, No. 1, pages 20-25 Kirlian Photography as a Type of Plasma Photography I. Chudacek, L. Matousek - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Optical Engineering, Jan-Feb 1987, Vol. 7, No. 9, pages SR 3,4,6 Instant imaging of electric, radio and acoustic fields William G. Hyzer - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - American Journal of Physics, December 1977, Vol. 45, No. 12, pages 1206-1219 Humanistic physics: A course using paraphysical topics to illustrate the scientific method Michael K. Garrity - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The quality and depth of the articles varies much, all have a bit different look on the subject but I think there is a common denominator. The reference from the Elector magazine describes in detail (scematics and prints) how to build a simple Kirlian "camera". Several of the articles contain a list of other references, that may be useful too, of course these refereces date back even further. As you may notice, a few articles are in the same edition of a single magazine/paper. The last reference of M. Garrity is valuable for references to the human side of auras. If you or some one else finds newer references, I'm interested to know about them. Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 06:04:22 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA06588; Wed, 8 May 1996 05:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 05:56:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Alexander Lotoski To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >When steam condenses into water it releases more calories than water > >requires to turn into steam. This is a measurable, undeniable > >fact. > > > >Unfortunately, it takes more work to turn water into steam than the > >conversion from steam to water will return. > > Could you please explain the controverse between these two sentences? > First you write condensing releases more energy than steaming costs, the > next line you write the opposite. I think i see what he's getting at. It is fact as he says, but it's also well explained... Water (l) --> Water (g) requires more energy than: Water (g) --> Water (l) Because of the fact that in the liquid state, hydrogen bonding, Van der Waals attractions and London dispersion forces exist, requiring extra input of energy to break these bonds/attractions and escape to the gas phase. Upon gas phase condensation, bonds are formed (namely hydrogen bonding--Van der Waals & London dispersion forces are mainly insignificant compared to H bonding), heat is released, and internal energy decreases. Thus, (l) -> (g) requires energy (g) -> (l) releases energy In his second statement he is referring to work, not heat being released, and thus is makes sense. This is off the top of my head, but i'm pretty sure it's a correct explanation.. John From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 07:08:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA17654; Wed, 8 May 1996 06:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 06:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9604088315.AA831567951@westatpo.westat.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: FLORESI1@westatpo.westat.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re[4]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ouch! talking about open minded people! No wonder why people get upset in this forum. I guess I stop wasting my time reading replies like this. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet-e-mail Date: 05/08/96 04:39 AM At 05:33 PM 5/7/96 -0700, you wrote: > hmmm, interesting but I'm skeptical, this is why... > I know of a place called Uncle's Chueco Cabin. At the entrance there > is some cow bones, and the legend says that a meteorite killed the > cow, and in the last minute, the cow curse the cabin. The effect for > some people there is very impressive. Some get so disoriented that > almost throw up. Inside, you can see water that defies gravity, > optical illusions, etc. Is this a unique place? nope, it's in a > amusement park at the outskirts in Mexico City. Through a very > ingenious set of backgrounds, floors with some slope, one can lose the > sense of what is the real vertical plane. Your body pushed by gravity > and your mind that tries to align to the "vertical" references inside > the house. > > > >Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies >Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet-e-mail >Date: 05/07/96 06:51 AM From: FLORESI1@westatpo.westat.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ these are well established phenomenon. these are not off the wall reports. you are wasting your time to be sceptical. you should do a little research before announcing your scepticism. it is a bit like being sceptical that there is a moon revolving around the planet earth. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 07:11:56 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA17803; Wed, 8 May 1996 06:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 06:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605081347.GAA09191@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Chuck Humphrey" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: F/E Stuff for Sale X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I am abandoning my research in the F/E field. After trying unsuccessfully to re-create some of the experiments in the Swiss M-L converter, Newman machines, Don Smiths space energy machine and more recently the Radiant energy tube of Perrault (which his material mislead me into wasting countless hours and a lot of money). I have determined that the the technology (if it exists) does not exist within my reach and I am selling off the artifacts I have accumulated. If anyone is interested in buying the following Items then please e-mail me at Whimhurst machine - Paid $150 - sell $75 50 BaFe Magnets 2" ceramic squares - $25 50 BaFe magnetic disks 3" disks -$25 Signal Generator $20 Small 20W stereo Amp $20 12V 24" Telsa Coil (working) includes Lazer Power Module - $50 5 lbs #26 Magnet wire - $25 9 lbs #28 Magnet wire - $40 Or the whole lot for $200 Chuck *-------------------------------------------------------------* * Get Unlimited - uncensored - Internet on a Stick * * full PPP - local phone access account for $15/mo * * download a copy for free * * http://www.unltd.com/next-gen/gallery.html * * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * email:next-gen@ix.netcom.com * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 07:08:07 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA17927; Wed, 8 May 1996 06:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 06:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9604088315.AA831568320@westatpo.westat.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: FLORESI1@westatpo.westat.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re[2]: Soule' advice to read the book X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I would like to read it. Can you contact me at floresi1@westat.com Ismael ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Soule' advice to read the book Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet-e-mail Date: 05/07/96 11:27 PM I come to this arena with a bias against Joseph Newman, which I acquired as a result of reading his book. I suggest that Even Soule's advice to this group was a bad idea. For those who have not made up their minds (and have not read the book) I have an offer. I will give my copy of the book (I can't ethically sell the book, as there is no literary or scientific value) to anyone willing to pay the postage. I have the first version published in 1984. Norm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 08:39:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA04118; Wed, 8 May 1996 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 08:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <68VKA-geldB@ddd.snafu.de> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@ddd.snafu.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Antigravity. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > I had written: > > >> Personally, I find the suggestion that a weight under a magnet > >> levitating by the Misener effect also looses some weight (by a > >> gravitational 'shadow') to be the most compelling suggestion of > >> an antigravetic effect to date. > > And Squire responded: > > >Shadow? I don't understand. . .what would be casting the shadow as > >you put it. . .the super conductiong liquid? > > Check this out: > > A disk of high temperature superconductor is placed into a cryogenic > fluid, and becomes superconducting. > > A permanent magnet is placed over the superconducting disk, and > levitates by the Misner (sp?) effect. > > A small weight placed on a scale under the levitating magnet (using no > power as discussed!) appears to cast a gravitational shadow below the > levitating magnet. In this shadow region, some reports claim a drop > in the measured weight of the small weight as compared to the measured > weight of that same weight outside the "gravitational shadow" area! > > Some might think that if we had a heavy enough magnet levitating over > a superconductor, that objects in the gravitational shadow might begin > to float, free of gravity. > Can you please supply a reference to an experiment ? Who has done the experiment and verified this ? That would be pretty cool, if that really worked ! Please let me know. Thanks a lot in advance. regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de or harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 21:43:23 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA05264; Wed, 8 May 1996 21:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 21:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Book X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >I come to this arena with a bias against Joseph Newman, which I acquired as a >result of reading his book. I suggest that Even Soule's advice to this group >was a bad idea. For those who have not made up their minds (and have not >read the book) I have an offer. I will give my copy of the book (I can't >ethically sell the book, as there is no literary or scientific value) to >anyone willing to pay the postage. I have the first version published in >1984. > >Norm Dear Norm: I'd be happy to pay your postage for the 1st Edition: please send me your snail-mail address. There are several individuals who already have one or more copies (of later editions) and have expressed a great interest in obtaining a 1st Edition. I would be happy to make it available to them (two are electrical engineers) since they have found the book to be of immense value to their understanding of electromagnetism. Thanks for making it available! Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.S. After writing the above, I just noticed that FLORESI1@westatpo.westat.com has also requested the copy of the 1st Edition. Since he responded to your offer first, please feel free to send it to him (per your/his request); otherwise, I'll be happy to pay your postage. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 21:47:29 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA06170; Wed, 8 May 1996 21:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 21:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605081750.MAA12326@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Kromrey generator X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I thought I'd send some more info on the Kromrey device. Please excuse the crude drawings, I'm doing this on a simple ASCII editor. Hopefully they come out OK! This is the basic configuration of the device as patented: This is a top view: Field Coils (or permanent / magnets) _____________ / ____________| |____________ | | | | | | | | | N ____| | ___ S | |_______| |_____________| |_______| Armature Coils _______ _______ / | | | |/ ____|_______|_______________________|_______|_____ |__________________________________________________|Shaft | | | | |_______| |_______| _______ _____________ _______ | |____| |____| | | S | | N | | | | | |____________| |____________| |_____________| This is an end view: Stator / Rotor _____ / ___ / ___ _____ | ___|_/ __| |_____/_____| |__ _|___ | | | | | | | _ | | | | | | | | N | | | | (_) | | | | S | |< Stator | |_____| |__| |___________| |__| |_____| | |_____| |___| ^ |___| |_____| ^ ^ \ ^ \ \ \Shaft \Field \ Armature coils Coil There are 2 assemblies of the armature coils, one for each pole combination of the field coils. They are connected to brushes and slip rings, and connected in series. I have seen several photos of "working" models, mostly very poor photos, but the stators and rotors appear to be made of laminated ferrous materials. John Bedini claimed to get 634 watts out for 50 watts in, under some load conditions. Researchers in France claimed several hundred percent efficiency. Eike Mueller also stated in "Experiments With a Kromrey & a Brandt-Tesla Converter Built By John Bedini" that the patent design wouldn't work but had been altered. He said that John "found the necessary modifications which made this machine perform" but didn't give details as to what they were.... In the book TAPPING THE ZERO-POINT ENERGY by Moray B. King, he hypothesizes that the field coils should be polarized as follows (sharply bucking fields): _____________ ____________| |____________ | | | | | | | | | N ____| |____ S | |_______| |_____________| |_______| _______ _______ | | | | _____|_______|_______________________|_______|______ |____________________________________________________| | | | | |_______| |_______| _______ _____________ _______ | |____| |____| | | N | | S | | | | | |____________| |____________| |_____________| Hopefully I'll get one of them built one of these days and do some experiments myself and maybe find out if the above works. I'll keep you all informed! Zack Widup w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 8 22:12:40 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA10559; Wed, 8 May 1996 22:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Christopher Comeaux To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 5 May 1996, Mary R. Carleton wrote: > David, > > There is a place called the "Oregon Vortex" just north of the > California-Oregon border about 20 minutes off of US Interstate 5 near > Grant's Pass. > > > > >I am looking for places within the USA that exhibit measurable > >spatial and/or temporal anomalies. For instance, there is a place > >in Wisconsin known as Rock Lake where, supposedly, light is bent and > >the trees grow only at a slant. > > > >Does anyone out there know of any other places? > >More specifically, any places in the North East, like the NYC area? > > > >David Rosignoli > >drdaveor@enter.net > > There is (or was) one in Ocean Township, New Jersey; I heard a rumor that they did major construction on the site and bulldozed the whole area. This is third-hand info though, perhaps in time I could reach the source. There is also one near Orlando, Florida. I believe it's called Ghost Hill or something like that. There are numerous references to it in tourism brochures you can get at any hotel in the area. cc/impulse From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 06:25:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA20209; Thu, 9 May 1996 06:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 06:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605090859.SAA04009@peg.apc.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Some time ago I mentioned to this list my thoughts that the DNA Double helix spirals looked like micro-miniature tuned circuits. If you stand 2 passive resonant tuned L/C circuits in close proximity and "ping" one with a voltage surge...it "rings:. This pulse is transferred to the second identically tuned circuit which was the basis of how electromagnetic radiation was discovered. I have wondered for some time if our DNA spirals aren't in fact micro tuned circuits which are "pinged" from a neural pulse IN OUR BRAIN. This would cause an instanteneous reaction in the cells hosting the DNA spirals. It would explain how cells detached and at a remote distance from the host body can react to a host signal....as Cleve Backster discovered. Further...it might explain why identical twins (presumably with DNA spirals tuned to the same frequency) sometimes experience inter-transfer of pain and other anomalous emotional transfers. This neural/DNA/cell message path would conflict with our current belief that the neural signals are transferred via electro/chemical transfer. I wonder if anyone on this (high neural activity) list has considered the above possibility? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts... Jim Francis Australian Lateral Mind Research Group From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 06:27:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA20821; Thu, 9 May 1996 06:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 06:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605091231.AA11476@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Michael and others Are there any scientific reports about these phenomena? I live in the Netherlands, so it is a bit to far away to see for myself. Timothy (T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >these are well established phenomenon. these are not off the wall reports. >you are wasting your time to be sceptical. you should do a little research >before announcing your scepticism. it is a bit like being sceptical that >there is a moon revolving around the planet earth. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 06:36:58 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA21559; Thu, 9 May 1996 06:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 06:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: PAUL BISSOT To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Knotts Berry Farm (an amusement park in southern California) has or had a "haunted house" for people to walk through and enjoy the illusions of gravity anomalies (its difficult to stand and disorienting), and a great illusion of people shrinking or growing in size depending on where they are in the cabin. It was impressive how easily we are deceived by walls that are not plumb, foundations that are not on level ground, and other visual cues we use to interpet our surroundings. If you go to investigate a site for spatial anomalies, be sure to bring a plumb bob, a carpenters level, some string, and a yard stick as a minimum. On Wed, 8 May 1996, Michael Mandeville wrote: > At 05:33 PM 5/7/96 -0700, you wrote: > > hmmm, interesting but I'm skeptical, this is why... > > I know of a place called Uncle's Chueco Cabin. At the entrance there > > is some cow bones, and the legend says that a meteorite killed the > > cow, and in the last minute, the cow curse the cabin. The effect for > > some people there is very impressive. Some get so disoriented that > > almost throw up. Inside, you can see water that defies gravity, > > optical illusions, etc. Is this a unique place? nope, it's in a > > amusement park at the outskirts in Mexico City. Through a very > > ingenious set of backgrounds, floors with some slope, one can lose the > > sense of what is the real vertical plane. Your body pushed by gravity > > and your mind that tries to align to the "vertical" references inside > > the house. > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies > >Author: freenrg-l@eskimo.com at internet-e-mail > >Date: 05/07/96 06:51 AM > From: FLORESI1@westatpo.westat.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re[2]: Unusual spatial/temporal anamolies > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > > >______________________________ Reply Separator > _________________________________ > > these are well established phenomenon. these are not off the wall reports. > you are wasting your time to be sceptical. you should do a little research > before announcing your scepticism. it is a bit like being sceptical that > there is a moon revolving around the planet earth. > ____________________________________ > MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing > Michael Mandeville, publisher > mwm@aa.net > http://www.aa.net/~mwm > > From bilb@eskimo.com Thu May 9 09:50:33 1996 Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA00769 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 09:50:30 -0700 (PDT) From: NLSilliman@aol.com Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA08118 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; Thu, 9 May 1996 12:50:01 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:50:01 -0400 Message-ID: <960509125000_531632378@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: The Book Offer Status: RO X-Status: Thank you for your offer to pay the postage for the free book. The first requester has declined after I answered his questions and quoted him the postage cost. The next in line for the book, Floresi1@westatpo.westat.com, has been notified that he is next in line and I have asked for an address. Thanks again for your offer. Norm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 17:44:54 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA02938; Thu, 9 May 1996 17:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:40:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Kromrey generator X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Zack; Your drawings actually came out quite well. As you propose that possibly the stator magnets should be (counter intuitionally) bucking, and as I look at it, I wonder why two coils on the rotor? wouldn't one be the same? I'm not sure, I guess the brush arrangement would be an important consideration. Byrun > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 17:50:56 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA03766; Thu, 9 May 1996 17:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960509125000_531632378@emout19.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: NLSilliman@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The Book Offer X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Thank you for your offer to pay the postage for the free book. The first requester has declined after I answered his questions and quoted him the postage cost. The next in line for the book, Floresi1@westatpo.westat.com, has been notified that he is next in line and I have asked for an address. Thanks again for your offer. Norm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 18:13:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA04980; Thu, 9 May 1996 17:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605092045.AA25103@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: To Jim Francis, >I have wondered for some time if our DNA spirals aren't in fact micro tuned >circuits which are "pinged" from a neural pulse IN OUR BRAIN. >This would cause an instanteneous reaction in the cells hosting the DNA spirals. >It would explain how cells detached and at a remote distance from the host >body can react to a host signal....as Cleve Backster discovered. It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are weakened very much. Note that I assumed that you are talking about the known electromagnetic signals, if you have other signals in mind then let me know. I don't know about Backster's discovery, so I can't comment about that. If you are right, then what are the normal nerves needed for? Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 03:35:37 1996 Received: from mail (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12647; Thu, 9 May 1996 18:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 18:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: chuck@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG (Chuck Knight) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sun Sprint (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I saw this on the EV list, and thought it might be of interest to some of us. Hey, Newman motor people...EVGray people...etc. Put a working model in a car, and get to this race! The media will be there...it'd be a perfect place to "shock" the world with the reality of these "impossible" technologies. -- Chuck Knight Forwarded message: > From UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU!SJSUVM1.BITNET!EV Wed May 8 20:15:55 1996 > Sender: UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU!SJSUVM1.BITNET!EV > Message-Id: <199605090104.UAA28007@egsner.cirr.com> > Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 18:54:27 +0000 > Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Sender: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > From: Hotchkiss High School > Subject: Sun Sprint > X-To: EV@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU. > X-cc: mle@wic.net > To: Multiple recipients of list EV > > Hi, > We are the organizing members for the Sun Sprint Race of the > Rockies. The Sun Sprint is a solar/electric/alternative fuel vehicle > race that we have set up. We are very interested in your vehicle and > your team. We would love to have your participation. We have spent > two years organizing this event. All of the townsand cities on the > route, two colleges, power companies, and civic organizations in the > area have agreed to support/sponsor/help make this event a success. > Media coverage has been arranged, involving print, radio, and > television. The race starts the 4th of August and lasts until the > 13th. You can also participate in just the first or the last half of > the race. If you would like more info, we encourage you to visit our > web site at: > http://www.dci-press.com/Schools/HHS/TechLab/sprint/cover.html > > If you have any further questions, comments, ideas, etc. please feel > free to contact us at hhs@wic.net or you can call us at (970)872-3882 > from 8 am until 3:30 pm (MST) or you can write us at Hotchkiss High > School, 3535 J60 Rd., Hotchkiss, CO, 81419. > > Thank you, > Cara Alvey and Darcie Short > Sun Sprint > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 19:19:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA05525; Thu, 9 May 1996 19:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 19:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605091326.GAA15852@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Chuck Humphrey" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I posted some F/E stuff for sale hgere a couple days ago and made an error in some of ther items. I had posted the incorrect Qty on the magnets. Here is the revised desc. 38 ea BaFe Magnets 2" X 1" ceramic squares - $25 38 ea BaFe magnetic disks 3" X 1/2" disks -$25 Signal Generator Kit (assembled) sqrwave, Sine, Triangle $20 I also have 50lbs of Zinc and Iron used in the Perrault radiant tube. I'll let it go for another $25 each. Chuck NextGeneration Software, 5023 W 120th Ave. # 109, Broomfield CO 80020. *-------------------------------------------------------------* * Get Unlimited - uncensored - Internet on a Stick * * full PPP - local phone access account for $15/mo * * download a copy for free * * http://www.unltd.com/next-gen/gallery.html * * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * email:next-gen@ix.netcom.com * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 19:29:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA07497; Thu, 9 May 1996 19:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 19:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 7 May 1996, Timothy van der Linden wrote: > John (Starship) wrote: > > >When steam condenses into water it releases more calories than water > >requires to turn into steam. This is a measurable, undeniable > >fact. > > > >Unfortunately, it takes more work to turn water into steam than the > >conversion from steam to water will return. > > Could you please explain the controverse between these two sentences? > First you write condensing releases more energy than steaming costs, the > next line you write the opposite. > > > Timothy van der Linden > > (T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl) ----------------------------------------- Sorry for the careless writing. What I meant to say was: In a conventional imperfect system, some energy will be lost through radiation, conduction, and convection while the water is being heated to the boiling point. In addition, when the water makes the transition from water at 100 C to steam at 100 C, an additional amount of heat (the latent heat of vaporization) is required for the transition to occur. When the steam condenses to water this heat is given up and must be resupplied in order to turn the water into steam once again. In the meantime, all the losses in the system must be continuously taken care of in the form of additional energy being supplied to the system. As a result, the work done by the expansion and contraction of the water/steam will be less than the energy put into the system. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 9 19:33:39 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA08574; Thu, 9 May 1996 19:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 19:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605091536.AA02906@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: To John Alexander Lotoski, >> Could you please explain the controverse between these two sentences? >> First you write condensing releases more energy than steaming costs, the >> next line you write the opposite. > Because of the fact that in the liquid state, hydrogen bonding, Van >der Waals attractions and London dispersion forces exist, requiring extra >input of energy to break these bonds/attractions and escape to the gas >phase. > > Upon gas phase condensation, bonds are formed (namely hydrogen >bonding--Van der Waals & London dispersion forces are mainly >insignificant compared to H bonding), heat is released, and internal >energy decreases. > > Thus, (l) -> (g) requires energy > (g) -> (l) releases energy This I all knew (except London dispersion), but thanks. > In his second statement he is referring to work, not heat being >released, and thus is makes sense. I'm not sure if I understand the latter, doo you mean that he is merely pointing at conversion efficiencies? Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 22:52:15 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA11018; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Alexander Lotoski To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > In his second statement he is referring to work, not heat being > >released, and thus is makes sense. > > I'm not sure if I understand the latter, doo you mean that he is merely > pointing at conversion efficiencies? heheh.. i can't even really remember the originally message now, but i just remember in the first part he pointed out the obvious fact that gas -> liquid released more energy than liquid -> gas. And it seemed to me that in the second part he just stated in a roundabout way that a naturally consequence of this is that: converting liquid -> gas requires more energy (work) than gas -> liquid. This is obvious because it requires no input of energy at all to convert gas to liquid, but will release it instead. This is of course assuming that the system is cool enough so that the molecules slow down and interact enough to form the corresponding attractive forces and bonds in order to enter the liquid phase. I do remember having to read it a couple times to understand what he/she was trying to say... :)... cya John From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 22:55:16 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA11658; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Alexander Lotoski To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Sorry for the careless writing. > What I meant to say was: > > In a conventional imperfect system, some energy will be lost through > radiation, conduction, and convection while the water is being heated > to the boiling point. In addition, when the water makes the transition > from water at 100 C to steam at 100 C, an additional amount of heat > (the latent heat of vaporization) is required for the transition to occur. > > When the steam condenses to water this heat is given up and must be > resupplied in order to turn the water into steam once again. > > In the meantime, all the losses in the system must be continuously taken > care of in the form of additional energy being supplied to the system. > > As a result, the work done by the expansion and contraction of the > water/steam will be less than the energy put into the system. > Ahh, ok.. I see... Yes, it is unfortunate.. Talking about this sort of thing reminds me of an article i saw on here a while back where someone stated that a person in Germany had designed a device that broke that barriers of effienency of the Carnot cycle. He apparantly was applying for patents and such.. Anyone heard anything lately about this? John From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 22:57:41 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA12107; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:55:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605100355.NAA05317@peg.apc.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >To Jim Francis, > >>I have wondered for some time if our DNA spirals aren't in fact micro tuned >>circuits which are "pinged" from a neural pulse IN OUR BRAIN. >>This would cause an instanteneous reaction in the cells hosting the DNA >spirals. >It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of >spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over >several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are >weakened very much. >Note that I assumed that you are talking about the known electromagnetic >signals, if you have other signals in mind then let me know. > >I don't know about Backster's discovery, so I can't comment about that. > >If you are right, then what are the normal nerves needed for? > >Timothy > > We may not be talking about standard em signals here. The transfer over thousands has got me puzzled. What medium is used for such a transfer? Jim From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 23:02:14 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA12517; Fri, 10 May 1996 22:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 22:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: realtime@peg.apc.org (Philip Braham) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: aura cameras - questions X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Hi my name is Andrew Wronka. I have some informations about >so-called aura cameras from Progen Co. I am a physicist from Lodz >in Poland and those informations are too general for me. > I am looking for details on topics: >1/ what thay measure (energy of electromagnetic fields from acupuncture >points?)2/ What is a meter of electromagnetic field ? >3/ how thay transformate measured values in different colors ? > (different vibratory rates?) >4/ Is Guy Coggins a pioneer of aura cameras ? >5/ Do you know another types of aura cameras and producers ? >6/ What about another biofeedback devices ? Who is a producer IVBA (the > Interactive Visual Brainwave Analyser) and SLEDs (Sound and Light > Enterainment devices) ? > I will be thankful if someone help me with those questions. > Best regards, Andrew Wronka. Andrew: Take a look at our World Wide Web site at: http://www.peg.apc.org/~exclusive (Australian site) OR http://www.malls.com/exclusive (US Mirror site) We have a lot of info on aura and Kirlian cameras, though not from Progen. I would be happy to pass on any questions you have. Regards, Phil Braham http://malls.com/exclusive http://www.peg.apc.org/~exclusive (Australian mirror site) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 23:03:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA12882; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605100743.AAA15017@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Byrun Fox references the May 1995 Scientific American p33-34. Monatomic Ruthenium on either end of a DNA strand increases conductivity 10,000 times. It's there, I checked. Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 05:51 PM 5/9/96 -0700, you wrote: >To Jim Francis, > >>I have wondered for some time if our DNA spirals aren't in fact micro tuned >>circuits which are "pinged" from a neural pulse IN OUR BRAIN. >>This would cause an instanteneous reaction in the cells hosting the DNA >spirals. >>It would explain how cells detached and at a remote distance from the host >>body can react to a host signal....as Cleve Backster discovered. > >It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of >spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over >several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are >weakened very much. >Note that I assumed that you are talking about the known electromagnetic >signals, if you have other signals in mind then let me know. > >I don't know about Backster's discovery, so I can't comment about that. > >If you are right, then what are the normal nerves needed for? > >Timothy > > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 23:07:22 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA13285; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605101621.AA07004@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Sorry for the careless writing. >What I meant to say was: > >In a conventional imperfect system, some energy will be lost through >radiation, conduction, and convection while the water is being heated >to the boiling point. In addition, when the water makes the transition >from water at 100 C to steam at 100 C, an additional amount of heat >(the latent heat of vaporization) is required for the transition to occur. OK, that clears things up. Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 10 23:10:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA13680; Fri, 10 May 1996 23:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: fnrg: warning messages X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 9 May 1996, Elizabeth Rose wrote: > Hello, > > I am having problems with the list. For 2 days in a row, I have been > getting the regular messages along with a copy of the message and the > following warning. That is, I'm getting 2 sets of every message, one with > this warning attached. Is anybody else having the same problem? And what > can I do about it? This is yet another listproc bug (the s/w that runs lists at eskimo.com, freenrg-L among them). Those warnings are supposed to bounce to list owners, but they are getting through to the lists. Eskimo.com has been notified, and those particular messages have been halted. ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 07:23:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05486; Sat, 11 May 1996 07:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 07:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Alexander Lotoski To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: water & f/e X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > Sorry for the careless writing. > > What I meant to say was: > > > > In a conventional imperfect system, some energy will be lost through > > radiation, conduction, and convection while the water is being heated > > to the boiling point. In addition, when the water makes the transition > > from water at 100 C to steam at 100 C, an additional amount of heat > > (the latent heat of vaporization) is required for the transition to occur. > > > > When the steam condenses to water this heat is given up and must be > > resupplied in order to turn the water into steam once again. > > > > In the meantime, all the losses in the system must be continuously taken > > care of in the form of additional energy being supplied to the system. > > > > As a result, the work done by the expansion and contraction of the > > water/steam will be less than the energy put into the system. Hmmm... This is not a special property of water. It applies wherever an imperfect system is in use (pretty much everywhere). Also any conversion of energy (Ie. heat to mechanical work) is never 100% (correct?) no matter what the chemical is (or method of transferance)... John From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 07:28:01 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA06059; Sat, 11 May 1996 07:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 07:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605111340.IAA00769@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >>To Jim Francis, >> >>>I have wondered for some time if our DNA spirals aren't in fact micro tuned >>>circuits which are "pinged" from a neural pulse IN OUR BRAIN. >>>This would cause an instanteneous reaction in the cells hosting the DNA >>spirals. > > >>It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of >>spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over >>several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are >>weakened very much. >>Note that I assumed that you are talking about the known electromagnetic >>signals, if you have other signals in mind then let me know. >> >>I don't know about Backster's discovery, so I can't comment about that. >> >>If you are right, then what are the normal nerves needed for? >> >>Timothy >> >> >We may not be talking about standard em signals here. The transfer over >thousands has got me puzzled. What medium is used for such a transfer? > >Jim Tom Bearden says they are scalar waves. See "Cancer and the Unresolved Health Issues In The Biological Effects of EM Fields and Radiation". I don't know if I subscribe to the theory yet or not, but it's what he says. If it's true it would explain several unexplained phenomena. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 08:31:13 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA17392; Sat, 11 May 1996 08:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 08:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605111418.AA14158@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Byrun Fox references the May 1995 Scientific American p33-34. Monatomic >Ruthenium on either end of a DNA strand increases conductivity 10,000 times. >It's there, I checked. > >Regards; >Dennis C. Lee Unfortunately I probably can't read that at the moment because our library is currently binding last years issues. Is this ruthenium at the ends of a DNA strand also present in our body at those places? How is the electric current moving, does it follow the windings of the spiral or is it flowing somewhere along the sides or the center? Timothy van der Linden From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 08:29:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA17673; Sat, 11 May 1996 08:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 08:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605111418.AA14162@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A To Jim Francis, >>>I have wondered for some time if our DNA spirals aren't in fact micro tuned >>>circuits which are "pinged" from a neural pulse IN OUR BRAIN. >>>This would cause an instanteneous reaction in the cells hosting the DNA >>>spirals. >> >>It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of >>spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over >>several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are >>weakened very much. >>Note that I assumed that you are talking about the known electromagnetic >>signals, if you have other signals in mind then let me know. > >We may not be talking about standard em signals here. The transfer over >thousands has got me puzzled. What medium is used for such a transfer? I'm afraid you soon get into paranormal phenomena, which are hard to proof. The only farfetched possibility could be "solitons" these have the ability to travel far without decereasing much. I do know little about them, but I believe these aren't possible for EM radiation yet (if ever). Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 08:31:13 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA17966; Sat, 11 May 1996 08:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 08:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Timothy et al. Regarding conductivity of genetic material. I suggest you read May,1995, page 33. The article talks about increasing the conductivity of a DNA strand. It was increased by placing a single atom of Ruthenium (a transition element in mono-atomic form) on each end of the strand. The scientists were amazed to find the conductivity increase by a factor of 10,000X. If you want more info on mono-atomics (you will be hearing a great deal about them in the comming years) try www.vru.com and click on 'white gold'. I suggest you read it and then follow the links to Hudson's pages at the end. You will find it most interesting. It tells how you can make you own genetic material super conductive. Byrun Fox. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 09:07:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA24305; Sat, 11 May 1996 09:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605111530.IAA07342@bob.indirect.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Reed Huish To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: AENewz,(energy from water,NakaMaz cosmic powered Engine) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> AENewz,(energy from water,NakaMaz cosmic powered Engine) [As POSTed on the Internet Alternative Energy List BB Down Loaded from News Services. POSTed for public AE informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.] --- Inventor NakaMats Is Self-Styled 'Japanese Edison' By Dean Takahashi, San Jose Mercury News, Calif. Knight-Ridder/Tribune Business News May 5--Yoshiro NakaMats bills himself as the Thomas Edison of Japan. The president of Tokyo's Hi-Tech Innovation Institute claims to have 3,042 patents -- compared with Edison's 1,093 -- over an inventing career that has spanned 63 of his 68 years. But of course, since the number of patents listed in this story is a few days old, the information may be a bit outdated. He says he has licensed 16 patents to IBM, including one for his 1952 invention of the ubiquitous floppy disk for personal computers. He has written more than 30 best-selling books and has lectured around the world, encouraging inventors to be persistent. OK, if the story ended there, it would be the stuff of pulp biography. ``Incredible Genius Invents the World'' might be a working title. Last week, his road show passed through Silicon Valley. As you might expect from the region that each year boasts of the most patents of any area in the nation, he was embraced warmly. He received heaps of honors from local officials as the keynote speaker for the first annual Pacific Rim Institute lecture series at San Jose State University and as a speaker before the Japanese Chamber of Commerce. He is so infatuated with the area he wants to hold his 10th annual ``Genius Convention'' in San Jose this year. [...] As one publication put it, ``The problem with figuring out NakaMats is that he draws no line between the practical and the wacky.'' [...] He claims to have invented brain food, which he sells as the ``Dr. NakaMats Yummi Nutri Brain Biscuits.'' He also has produced ``Enerex,'' an engine which produces energy from water. He says he has invented a ``NakaMaz Engine'' that is far more efficient than gasoline or electric engines because it runs on ``cosmic power.'' When pressed for details during an interview, NakaMats shows a foil with a big long formula on it that shows how the engine works. [...] NakaMats said he started inventing because his grandfather was a scrupulous medical researcher who organized competitions among family members to see who could create the best new invention. NakaMats says that at age 5, in 1933, he created a stabilizer to make planes fly better. He got his first patent in the eighth grade. At 14, he created a pump that enabled his mother to pump soy sauce from a big jar. [...] His dream is to open a school for inventors that teaches people how to create new products, in contrast to the more traditional colleges in Japan and the United States. ``About 99.99 percent of the time, inventors fail because they want to make money,'' he said. ``I invent something out of love, like my love for my mother.'' [...] ``Forget about gain or loss,'' he said. ``Speak and behave with ethics and money automatically comes later.'' [...] http://www.sjmercury.com IBM, END!R9?SJ-INVENTOR AP-NY-05-04-96 1928EDT ... San Jose Mercury Center Online editor JOHN MURRELL (JMurrell@aol.com) Fax# 408-271-3718, Tel# 408-297-8495, 800-818-6397, Mercury Center, (feedback@sjmercury.com) http://www.sjmercury.com/ 750 Ridder Park Drive., San Jose, CA 95190 USA. NewsPaper, 408-998-1200, 800-827-6397. --- Bruce Parmenter AKA: Ca'pitan Rayito ____ {Statements may not be my Employer's} ~/__|o\__ (BruceDP@aol.com) Fax: 408-746-5368 '@----- @'---(= Get Amp'd 'Electric cruis'n the Santa Clara Valley' 120V '85 S-10 Blazer EV List BB Editor Sunnyvale,CA,USA http://members.aol.com/brucedp/ AENewz,(energy from water,NakaMaz cosmic powered Engine) <---- End Forwarded Message ----> From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 10:13:54 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06086; Sat, 11 May 1996 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 10:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Tim; You asked; > >Is this ruthenium at the ends of a DNA strand also present in our body at >those places? >How is the electric current moving, does it follow the windings of the >spiral or is it flowing somewhere along the sides or the center? Those are easy to quess at and hard to really know questions. The body definitely contains monoatomics of the transition elements. Pig and calve brain contain up to 2.5 Rhodium and 2.5% Iridium. There is inevitably some in Humans and I think they would go along way to explain communication on a microscopic level. As to the path, who knows ...... Byrun Fox. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 12:23:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA29243; Sat, 11 May 1996 12:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 12:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605111823.LAA24607@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Lakhovsky believed that the conductive path followed the spiral. Therefore there is an inductance associated with this current flow. He also believed that there are capacitive structures in the cell. An inductor and a capacitor make a tank circuit. His Multi Wave Oscillator was kind of a white noise generator where each cell can find its' own resonant frequency and thus be rejuvenated with life force energy. Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 10:11 AM 5/11/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Is this ruthenium at the ends of a DNA strand also present in our body at >>those places? >>How is the electric current moving, does it follow the windings of the >>spiral or is it flowing somewhere along the sides or the center? From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 14:07:00 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA17392; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 14:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605111925.PAA05631@dns.enter.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "David Rosignoli" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >>>I have wondered for some time if our DNA spirals aren't in fact micro tuned > >>>circuits which are "pinged" from a neural pulse IN OUR BRAIN. > >>>This would cause an instanteneous reaction in the cells hosting the DNA > >>>spirals. > >> > >>It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of > >>spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over > >>several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are > >>weakened very much. > >>Note that I assumed that you are talking about the known electromagnetic > >>signals, if you have other signals in mind then let me know. > > > >We may not be talking about standard em signals here. The transfer over > >thousands has got me puzzled. What medium is used for such a transfer? > > I'm afraid you soon get into paranormal phenomena, which are hard to proof. > The only farfetched possibility could be "solitons" these have the ability > to travel far without decereasing much. I do know little about them, but I > believe these aren't possible for EM radiation yet (if ever). Well, what about ball lightning? That remains strangely coherent over long distances and over long time periods. Solitons may be one way to describe them. Also, a few years ago the Navy (Naval Research Lab. ?) did research into ADEPTS (Acousticly Developed Envelope Pulse Trains) in which sound was projected under water. The result was soundwaves that could hold their shape over several meters. The article made the analogy to Star Trek's photon torpedos. Anyway, I saw it in an issue of Science News a few years ago. Also, the idea that DNA spirals might act as little radio receivers is not a new one. The idea behind the MWO (Multiwave Oscillator) supposedly uses that principle to "heal" willing participants. At least these are the claims. I personally cannot verify the effectiveness of the MWO. David Rosignoli drdaveor@enter.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 14:09:50 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA17857; Sat, 11 May 1996 14:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 14:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960511195517_76216.2421_HHB48-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Timothy - > "The only farfetched possibility could be "solitons" these > have the ability to travel far without decereasing much. I do > know little about them, but I believe these aren't possible > for EM radiation yet (if ever). But if they were possible, an EM soliton would make one heck of an artillery shell (photon torpedo?). So if they were possible and the technology for generating them was known, 'somebody' would have that tucked away behind the veil by now. I think the biggest coverup about 'black' science is that it's not a very big area. "Oh yeah, there's a few things in electronic remote sensing and countermeasures, missle guidance technology and such, and of course specific communication codes, but that's about it. There's no parallel black physics." Uh huh. And I have some land on the Big Island you might be interested in... - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 15:56:54 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA04873; Sat, 11 May 1996 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Dennis; I have built MWO's and am familiar with the work of Lakovsky. (sp?) It is really very difficult to gain the efficacy of his approach. Something few realize is that he used inert gases, similar to Priorie in France. Byrun. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 17:20:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA18535; Sat, 11 May 1996 17:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605112337.AA29799@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: To Byrun Fox, >If you want more info on mono-atomics (you will be hearing a great deal >about them in the comming years) try www.vru.com and click on 'white gold'. >I suggest you read it and then follow the links to Hudson's pages at the >end. You will find it most interesting. It tells how you can make you own >genetic material super conductive. Wow, can I get psychic powers by doing that? No, don't answer that, I'm just kidding, it just sounds so strange. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To Zack Widup, >Tom Bearden says they are scalar waves. See "Cancer and the Unresolved >Health Issues In The Biological Effects of EM Fields and Radiation". > >I don't know if I subscribe to the theory yet or not, but it's what he >says. If it's true it would explain several unexplained phenomena. I glanced over that document some time ago, but did not look well enough to know about scalar waves. Personally I like the theory of the mircroscopic magnetic elements that are present in almost everything around us and also in our tissue cells. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To Dennis C. Lee, >Lakhovsky believed that the conductive path followed the spiral. Therefore >there is an inductance associated with this current flow. He also believed >that there are capacitive structures in the cell. An inductor and a >capacitor make a tank circuit. His Multi Wave Oscillator was kind of a white >noise generator where each cell can find its' own resonant frequency and >thus be rejuvenated with life force energy. Although it might work, this doesn't sound much like a theory. I've heard of capacitive structures, but am not sure what their "real" functions are. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To David Rosignoli, >Well, what about ball lightning? >That remains strangely coherent over long distances and over >long time periods. Solitons may be one way to describe them. A year ago I did some research about ball lightning, there are many theories, one of the best developed theories says that EM-waves are the origin of energy. In this theory the energy is build up in a cave (or closed waveguide) and at some moment in time a plasma blob is formed, which can last longer than just a moment. I never read that they moved over large distances (100 metres max.) and also never read that they did move fast (15 m/s max). About the stability of ball lightning is so much controverse that I wouldn't even dare saying anything. I can only ask you the question: "Wouldn't solitons need to move?" (Many ball lightnings don't move or at least move much slower than the speed of light.) >Also, a few years ago the Navy (Naval Research Lab. ?) did >research into ADEPTS (Acousticly Developed Envelope Pulse Trains) >in which sound was projected under water. The result was soundwaves >that could hold their shape over several meters. The article >made the analogy to Star Trek's photon torpedos. Anyway, I saw it >in an issue of Science News a few years ago. Solitons are indeed seen for longitudinal waves, since EM-radiation is a transversive wave this may cause intrinsic problems. Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 17:24:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19107; Sat, 11 May 1996 17:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 11 May 1996, Timothy van der Linden wrote: > To Jim Francis, > > > >We may not be talking about standard em signals here. The transfer over > >thousands has got me puzzled. What medium is used for such a transfer? > > I'm afraid you soon get into paranormal phenomena, which are hard to proof. > The only farfetched possibility could be "solitons" these have the ability > to travel far without decereasing much. I do know little about them, but I > believe these aren't possible for EM radiation yet (if ever). Solitons require a nonlinear medium. They are perfectly possible for EM in glass, for example, and soliton data transmission is a large and growing segment of fiber optics research. If empty space turns out to be nonlinear (ZPE theory suggests that it is,) then solitons might be possible for EM in vacuum. But even if the soliton does not obey inverse square law, how does it find a distant target? Bearden's ideas on the ability of scalar waves establishing a channel via phase conjugation sounds more likely. But to me his theories seem more tailored towards LEGITIMIZING anomalous events, rather than toward EXPLAINING them. An explanation would illuminate other paths for us to explore, paths that no one realized were there. But a 'legitimization' just makes us feel that we aren't insane when we see something strange occur. ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 11 20:30:55 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA16533; Sat, 11 May 1996 20:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 20:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3195321d.10520718@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 11 May 1996 08:27:27 -0700 (PDT), Timothy van der Linden wrote: >To Jim Francis, > [snip] >>We may not be talking about standard em signals here. The transfer over >>thousands has got me puzzled. What medium is used for such a transfer? > >I'm afraid you soon get into paranormal phenomena, which are hard to proof. >The only farfetched possibility could be "solitons" these have the ability >to travel far without decereasing much. I do know little about them, but I >believe these aren't possible for EM radiation yet (if ever). > >Timothy > > As soon as I read this, I thought of neutrinos. Travels at the speed of light, has a frequency just like photons, passes virtually unhindered through the planet, and comprises of a small bundle of energy. Sounds like a soliton to me. Problem is, how does the brain interact with particles, that are notorious for not interacting with anything much? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 12 00:28:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA19347; Sun, 12 May 1996 00:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 00:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605120711.AAA20147@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Byrun; I made a jig that cuts circles in aluminium foil glued to the surface of a glass plate. The diameters of the circles coincided with the Golden Ratio antenna spacing designed by Eric Dollard as described in "The Lakhovsky Multi Wave Oscillator Handbook" by Tom Brown. I stacked 6 of these plates 6 inches apart and entered it as a sculpture in an art show at a local gallery. I thought that the structure was aesthetically pleasing. When I stood in front of it I felt good. I believe that this feeling of goodness was mechanically induced. It may be interesting to use monatomic gold glass in the construction of a MWO. This may increase efficiency. BTW. How were inert gasses incorporated into the design? Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 03:53 PM 5/11/96 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Dennis; > >I have built MWO's and am familiar with the work of Lakovsky. (sp?) It is >really very difficult to gain the efficacy of his approach. > > >Something few realize is that he used inert gases, similar to Priorie in France. > >Byrun. > > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 12 12:02:47 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA13081; Sun, 12 May 1996 11:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 11:59:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Dennis; Sounds like and interesting piece of art work, are you sure you didn't just feel good because it was an expression of yourself. Were the circles the same diameter each. Tell me more. In Lak's work, he used copper tubes for antenna. Similar to Rife also. These hollow tubes were filled with inert gases. Strange things happen when you excit inert gases. There is a book (out of print) called Einstein doen'st work here anymore, by Maurice Cooke. It is a great explanation of the 'inert gas field'. if you ever see it grab it. >Hi Byrun; Take care, Byrun. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 12 13:53:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA01839; Sun, 12 May 1996 13:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 13:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960512134918_102012.1500_EHT49-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Jules Brovont <102012.1500@CompuServe.COM> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Double Helix Mega Antenna X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Timothy Wrote: >It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of >spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over >several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are >weakened very much. >Note that I assumed that you are talking about the known electromagnetic >signals, if you have other signals in mind then let me know. Perhaps the DNA double helix is able to coordinate it's efforts with other strands of DNA and form something akin to a huge radio telescope, except working backwards. Just like several radio telescopes can be joined together to create a huge one-(sometimes thousands of miles wide) the DNA in the human body, even if it does not use normal EM signals, may be able to create an antena as large as your body. Jules From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 12 15:51:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA21828; Sun, 12 May 1996 15:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 15:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960512182356_489581088@emout17.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: MichaelUK1@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron engine O/U? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 06/05/96 09:32:43 Tim Chandler wrote regarding the conversion of a normal petrol engine to run on water: > >As I stated above, water is a weird little molecule, and is not totally >understood. > >Upon closing I must say that our modification of the Briggs & Stratton >engine was never intended for an "overunity" application so to speak, it was >merely an experiment we were conducting to determine whether or not it was >possible to operate an engine on water, thus negating many of the emission >problems associated with combustion type engines. Nothing more, nothing >less... > >Thanks, > >Tim > > Did I understand this correctly, you did get a self-running engine to operate just on water? If this is the case then your statement "nothing more nothing less" seems a bit casual. Or have I misunderstood and you tried and failed to get the engine to operate in such a self sustaining mode? Mike Butcher From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 13 01:49:22 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA03497; Mon, 13 May 1996 01:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 01:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960513080844_76216.2421_HHB45-1@CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron engine O/U? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On May 12 Mike Butcher wrote: > "Did I understand this correctly, you did get a self-running > engine to operate just on water? If this is the case then > your statement "nothing more nothing less" seems a bit > casual. Or have I misunderstood and you tried and failed to > get the engine to operate in such a self sustaining mode?" Me too, Mike. Frankly, I'm rather suspicious this story was put here to tease us a bit. My apologies to Timothy Chandler if it's a true story, but I think you have to admit it looks a little strange as posted here. It's like, yeah, we got an engine to run on *nothing but water*, and then just shrugged and went on with our lives. I basically thought it might have been posted as a joke. Did anyone here wonder at all what kind of valve or gate arrangement allowed the microwaves to be guided from the waveguide into the combustion chamber enclosure to abruptly heat up - what, a water mist(?) - which then expands against a piston? The air/fuel(water) intake valves are by then closed, but what about the waveguide openings, aren't they by necessity closed too at that point to maintain pressure? What was it, a ceramic or somesuch plug in the spark plug hole that's transparent to microwaves coming down the waveguide? Timothy didn't say. But he did say the devices powering the spark plugs on a B&S engine are also called magnetrons. They're actually called magnetos, little permanent magnet electrical generators. We're being exposed to enough talk of overunity this and that nowdays to maybe just believe that microwaves could somehow boil out that mysterious energy from the ZPF and such an engine might be possible. Until I see one running, I doubt it. Open minded skepticism. Then again, I've heard that they had essentially that up and running in Denver just recently. Supposedly it needed a small proportion of gasoline in the water to run just right - it got too hot when run on pure H2O, although it otherwise ran very well even then. I don't know if this was the latest Meyer-type engine with the on-demand electrolysis being powered by the mags off the engine, with the resulting HO fuel thus produced being burned in the cylinder(s). I'd love to see the details. Was anyone there? Timothy, *please* don't be offended, but were you serious about this story? - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 13 02:58:38 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA13964; Mon, 13 May 1996 02:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 02:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605130919.TAA01558@peg.apc.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Double Helix Mega Antenna X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Timothy Wrote: >>It sounds neat, but I've some doubts about the electrical conductivity of >>spiraled DNA. Besides that, twins seem to experience emotion transfers over >>several thousand kilometers. After such large distances most signals are >>weakened very much. >Perhaps the DNA double helix is able to coordinate it's efforts with other >strands of >DNA and form something akin to a huge radio telescope, except working backwards. >Just like several radio telescopes can be joined together to create a huge >one-(sometimes thousands of miles wide) the DNA in the human body, even if it >does not use normal EM signals, may be able to create an antena as large as your >body. > > Jules > Interesting thought! Ordinary brain cells appear to be able to generate and conduct electricity ok...otherwise we wouldn't be able to measure the voltage output on EEG machines. As a DNA cell is microscopically small it would probably not have much inherent DC resistance....maybe only a few hundred ohms (?) But this would make for a very low Q tuned circuit. I wonder if it would be possible to measure the inductive and capacitive reactance of a singular DNA spiral. From this it should be possible to calculate the resonate frequency. Remote Viewing tells me that the DNA spiral has another purpose beside chemical genetic coding. The RV input tends to indicate that DNA is also used for receiving external life information. Jim Francis Australian Lateral/Mind research From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 13 05:02:45 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA29387; Mon, 13 May 1996 04:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 04:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605131144.AA16133@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Double Helix Mega Antenna X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Jules Brovont wrote: >Perhaps the DNA double helix is able to coordinate it's efforts with other >strands of DNA and form something akin to a huge radio telescope, except >working backwards. >Just like several radio telescopes can be joined together to create a huge >one-(sometimes thousands of miles wide) the DNA in the human body, even if it >does not use normal EM signals, may be able to create an antena as large as >your body. For telescopes that only increase the resolution, not the fact that a signal can be recieved or not. The latter depends on the power that is received and it can only be enlarged by making the receiving dish bigger. (Of course when using 2 telescopes linked together the dishsize increases, but just by a factor 2 or so. It is the distance between the telescopes that increases the resolution under optimal circumstances.) I won't render your idea completely useless because the receiving surface is significant increased in our case, from 1 DNA strand to ... well I don't know exactly but it's very very much. The only thing that I'm now worrying about is how is the signal-to-noise ratio? The amount of DNA-stands is so big that the chance that several of them are receiving different messages at the same time seem not small and thus may result in unwanted behavior. However, now that I have sunk so deep in the mud (read assumed so many unknown things), I really can't validate anything anymore. One thing seems certain, the simple theory that we started with seems to be not so simple at all. Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 14 02:06:02 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA08445; Tue, 14 May 1996 01:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 01:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605131702.AA22823@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: David Rosignoli wrote: >> >Well, what about ball lightning? >> >That remains strangely coherent over long distances and over >> >long time periods. Solitons may be one way to describe them. >> >> A year ago I did some research about ball lightning, there are many >> theories, one of the best developed theories says that EM-waves are the >> origin of energy. >> In this theory the energy is build up in a cave (or closed waveguide) and at >> some moment in time a plasma blob is formed, which can last longer than just >> a moment. > >I am aware of that theory. I believe a few years ago some scientists >did experiments whereby they used microwaves inside a waveguide >to creat ball lightning. The ball persisted even after the power >was removed. I think it only lasted 100's of milliseconds over a >very short distance. [See Nature a few years back] Yes I know that article; I checked it, the lifetimes mentioned range from 0.2 to aprox. 2 seconds. >> I never read that they moved over large distances (100 metres max.) and also >> never read that they did move fast (15 m/s max). > >Well, first of all, I am not sure what the longest amount of >distance a ball lightning has ever been tracked at. I never read it either, but since I knew the average time and average speed, I conclude that the product would give me the average distance. >However, >I do know that they can be of enormous size (usually only cm's >in diamter, but can extend as much as 100's of meters in diameter. >One person calls these huge ball lightnings Gorgons [See Electric >Spacecraft Journal Issue # ?]). I know that most reported sightings >are very slow, but there are some that are reported onboard and >around aircraft. If they are formed outside the craft, then they >be moving extremely quickly under their own motion (100 Km/hr). The latter makes the idea of a resonant cavity much more likely. >> About the stability of ball lightning is so much controverse that I wouldn't >> even dare saying anything. > >BL's last at least in the millseconds range. Past that, who >knows? >> I can only ask you the question: "Wouldn't solitons need to move?" (Many >> ball lightnings don't move or at least move much slower than the speed of >> light.) > >Describe "move". Moving at the rate of 1 mm/sec is slow, but >still motion. I am not completely familiar with the math behind >solitons. I know that they are a description of waves that retain >their shape over distance. How solitons could describe ball >lightning is uncertain to me, but I imagine that the ball itself >represents two sets of motion: 1) waves inside the ball and >2) the motion of the ball in its entirety >( This is assuming an electromagnetic description of ball lightning.) I assumed the EM solitons moved with the speed of light and thus so would the BL, but ofcourse the solitons could be reflected back and forth inside the ball. This way the ball wouldn't need to move at all. Of course assuming this I don't think solitons are needed at all. So now we may be back at the starting point: Are solitons really necessary for ball lightning? If not, I think it isn't a valid argument to suggest that EM solitons exist (and transfer "emotional" states). Timothy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 14 02:10:56 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA09237; Tue, 14 May 1996 02:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605140620.XAA12905@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Byrun; I am a practitioner of Master Mantak Chia's microcosmic orbit. Basically, this meditation involves moving a ball of life force energy along acupunture channels. It feels like an electric charge moving in these channels. Perhaps this training makes me more sensitive but it was on this gut level that the energy feeling resided. Then again, I was kind of admiring various design features at other times. At any rate, others have mentioned that there is something funny about the piece. The Eric Dollard Golden Ratio Antenna consists of 12 concentric, conductive 342 degree ring sectors adhered to a non conductive plate. As the name implies, the conductive ring sectors and spaces between the ring sectors are related by the golden ratio. The gap of each ring sector has a corresponding conductive segment on the other side of the plate such that the back segment overlaps both ends of the front ring sector. The conductive loop constitutes the inductor, the overlap is the capacitance. The unique thing about this design is that it focuses ambient energy and no power supply is needed. If anyone is interested in building this design, I'd recommend getting a copy of "The Lakhovsky Multiple Wave Oscillator Handbook by Tom Brown" from the Borderland Sciences Research Foundation. Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 11:59 AM 5/12/96 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Dennis; > >Sounds like and interesting piece of art work, are you sure you didn't just >feel good because it was an expression of yourself. Were the circles the >same diameter each. Tell me more. > >In Lak's work, he used copper tubes for antenna. Similar to Rife also. These >hollow tubes were filled with inert gases. Strange things happen when you >excit inert gases. There is a book (out of print) called Einstein doen'st >work here anymore, by Maurice Cooke. It is a great explanation of the 'inert >gas field'. if you ever see it grab it. >Hi Byrun; > > >Take care, Byrun. > > > > From vortcor-list@eskimo.com Wed May 15 06:32:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA14850; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 06:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605151249.OAA09974@ns.bbtt.com> Reply-To: vortcor-list@eskimo.com Originator: vortcor-list@eskimo.com Sender: vortcor-list@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Newman, further discussion X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Stefan, > >Thanks again for the comments.=20 > >You are right about the timing; the time base of the two oscillograms are >quite different.=20 Yes, the first big machine has other readings than the 3rd 145 lb model. They also have different commutators ! > >Follow my reasoning, I'm thinking through my keyboard (like Chris Tinsley, >confused mumblings). Referring to Hasting's report on the 145 lb unit, the >inductance of the coil calculates at 16000 henries and the measured >resistance is 50 kohms, for a time constant of about .3 sec. The= oscillogram >is clearly that of a segmented commutator, and Newman said the pulse= appears >during the break.=20 Yes. >Hastings says the current appears in both the battery and >coil side of the commutator. Shunting neon lamps, diverting the arc, would >shunt energy away from the batteries, so no recharging would occur.=20 > Hmm, as I understand it, also when the current pulse apears and there is a neon bulb connected to the coil it still goes back to the battery. >However, allowing arcing, the connection is effectively continuous (with= the >long time constant) until the brushes reach the shorting segment. Then the >current in the coil continues to flow in the same direction, but decaying, >and still attracting the rotating magnet.=20 Yes, but there is also a negative back current pulse, as the circuit opens and NOT a positive current pulse...why... ? >The current flow is still in the >same direction as that produced by the batteries in the discharge mode, but >is now being 'pushed' by the energy coming from the coil. Now the moving >ferromagnetic mass is interacting with a decaying magnetic field in the= coil. > Right.. >To quote Ide: "It can be postulated that...the motional EMF has a positive >effect on the recharge voltage over a certain range of core speed." And the >extremely nonlinear conditions which exist during the arcing may allow the >"asymmetric regauging" that Bearden refers to, recharging the Newman system >from the energetic vacuum.=20 > Could be.. >There is a curious similarity between Bearden's point that extracting= energy >from the vacuum is a simple as a flashlight -- properly understood -- and >Newman's explanation of why the current pulses -- which don't reverse >direction -- don't discharge the batteries.=20 Well, they reverse, as you can see in the first big machine scope= readings... I also had negative current pulses flowing back to the battery in my units ! The scope pic of the 3rd model is probably taken with a wrong setting of the "inverted input setting" at the scope... so it looks like the= staircaise pulse is positive, but really is negative... >Newman points out (Fig 23-C, 7th >edition) capacitative effects within the battery with the high frequency >pulses which can also move ions. Thus while Shannon correctly points out= that >the complex behavior of batteries can mislead in certain Newman >demonstrations, Shannon has not himself exhausted all the possible strange >things that may be happening.=20 > I agree. >Bearden's example of a battery as a vacuum energy gating device doesn't >explain the observed chemical changes with battery discharge; there is more >to be understood. But if Newman's machine is also a gating device, perhaps= it >will not seem so strange that batteries endure beyond reason! Right. >I understand from Newman or Soule that the multi-segmented commutators are >used if the machine is to generate electrical energy; if it is only to be a >motor, the commutators only reverse polarity to keep the armature rotating, >the coils are shunted with capacitors to suppress arcing --=20 Yes, I made the same observations. If I used the segmented commutator (pulsed input) the torque on the rotors was a lot weaker than a noninterrupted input to the coil, so getting the max mechancial output of it requires a nonbreaking commutator. But then it is almost like a normal DC motor, especially in his newer= designs.. I once called Dr. Hasting on the phone a few years ago and he told me that the mechanical output of the newer Newman motors was always under 100 %, around 90 % of the input power and also in my measuring the mechanical= output alone was under 100 %, although my design was not build for mechanical power output.. too much losses.. That is alosthe reason why Newman never got his loop closed yet, cause he cannot just couple the mechanical output back via a generator to the= input... But with adding all output energies, like heat energy produced inside the= coil and the light energy from the bulbs and heat inside the arc and RF energy the Newman motors surely go beyond 100 %... It would have best to be measured via a calorimeter test, where the whole output of the motor is converted to heat and then the heat compared to the input electrical energy. >yet Soule >indicated that the several series-connected commutator segments were there= to >get extremely fast opening of the circuit. Running this off the mains with= an >neon-sign transformer without moving a wattmeter is curious. Yes, it's a >highly reactive load, but wattmeters are quite sensitive and the idling >current of the transformer itself should be detectable. Hmm, why didn=B4t they test it with a 12 Volt battery and an inverter producing 110 Volts and then the neon transformer ? So they could have measured the input from the 12 Volts battery to the= inverter and see, how much current it draws and could use the efficiency of the= inverter to calculate total system efficieny ! Well, the best test is still the calorimeter test, anything else has difficulties, due to the enourmous spikes... >Any comments? Would you like to see an advance copy of the review? Its some >3000 words, perhaps a bit much if your server charges text by the word. I'm >sending a copy to Newman for his comment, but I will maintain my own= decision >about the final form. Gene liked an advanced draft.=20 Okay, just send it ! Please include my WEB site inside your report, so people could get an update after your article will be printed... http://www.overunity.de I will have soon up all my material about Newman , also in english language. > >I have the review pretty much set up, but I'm still trying to understand= the >magnetic machines. It's OK for the chemists and nuclear physicists to be >upset by the Patterson cell, but on my EE turf, well, that's another >matter.... I agree. > >I haven't been able to reach Hastings. Gene can't find the phone number, a >Soule and Newman both declined to give it out. You've seen the freenrg= rumor >the Hastings isn't supporting Newman. I have no more info. I could well >believe that Hastings is fed up with questions and defending his reports >against people like Shannon (I'm not criticizing Shannon, who has been >professional in his approach; it's just that there a lots of people -- >including me -- who would pick at his reports.) Well, yes, I can understand Hasting is a bit annoyed by all this and also Newman=B4s inabilty to communicate in a certain manner... (wanting to get president and all this crap....) :) >Gene talked to Ide's translator and said that Ide was very well aware of= the >o/u implications of his work, he doesn't want to emphasize that now. Ide's >work is more analytical, of course, and Newman pursues his mechanical= model. Okay, Ide did this probably to get published at all in this magazine... Curious, that I spoke with Stefan Marinov 2 days ago and he told me, that he wanted to publish a critique letter of Ide in Applied physics inside the next issue of Applied physics and the editor just commented, that the IDE article=20 was not really meant to be published , but only on accident was published= and that no more comments should follow on this article in this magazine... I think Newman hides behind his gyroscopic particle theory, cause he does not understand induction theory and the Lenz law... >That's not necessarily bad; the intuitive models come first anyhow, and the >math is for testing and explaining it to others. But there is a phenomenon >there that seems a clue to the vacuum energy gating phenomenon Bearden was >writing about.=20 Yes, that is why I will now try to build this magnetic wankel motor which still seems to be the best motor to proove, if the regauging will work and thus getting a real good mechanical output ! > >Newman is extremely jealous of his priority -- he keeps a list of everyone >who buys his books, so he can claim plagarism if anyone else publishes >similar ideas. He is planning to sue the US government for $1 billion (lots >of luck, you need the government's permission to do that) so he is= extremely >sensitive on the subject of priority.=20 I think , he is a little bit overexaggeration it all... He should better try to get close the loop somehow... >Do you know anything about Bearden? He's on Newman's scum list too; he= bought >the book and talked to Newman on the phone, so he is of course suspect. He >seems to have some interesting ideas.=20 I once talked to him on the phone back about 10 years.. Well he sometimes has good ideas but many things he picks up and does not tell it right... and he also gets many things wrong... But Marinov just told me, that he is a kind man.=20 He met him on the recent Denver conference. But he claimed it wrong, that the magnetic wankel motor is the Takahashi= motor. As I heard of, this is not true, so it seems he did not really look at it... Well, anyway, have you already seen the video tape=20 of the Takahashi motor ? Where can I buy it from ? Any other news about the Takahashi motor ? Have you been at the recent Denver conference ? What about he new Correa device ? Did you see it ? Was anything shown on the conference that really run on its own energy ? >Regards, Mike > regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany Tel: ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX: ++ 49 30 344 92 79 email: harti@ddd.snafu.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 15 06:41:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA15597; Wed, 15 May 1996 06:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 06:35:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9605150905.A21252@ccgate.eatl.co.uk> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Xiaoming Duan To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: ou plasma X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I have gathered that there have been over a hundred over unity device been built around the world based on microwave induced plasma. The high temperature plasma once generated can stay on as long as 10 minutes evan after the power supply is switched off. Can any one provide more reference on this subject? The only seemingly relevant reference I can find is: Y.H.Ohtsuki & H.Ofuruton (1991) Nature Vol 350 p139-141 (14 March 1991); Title: Plasma fireballs formed by microwave interference in air. The two physicists were trying to duplicate the ball lightning during storm with microwave and they observed occasionally the plasma formed can lasts 1-2 second after the power was switched off. They could not find any explaination for such phenomenon. Xiaoming Duan EA Technology Capenhurst Chester CH1 6ES UK e-mail:xd@eatl.co.uk From vortcor-list@eskimo.com Wed May 15 12:37:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA27696; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:37:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: vortcor-list@eskimo.com Originator: vortcor-list@eskimo.com Sender: vortcor-list@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Reply to recent posting re Joseph Newman X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Stefan, Just a couple of replies to recent postings: >I think Newman hides behind his gyroscopic particle theory, cause he does >not understand induction theory and the Lenz law... Chapter 2 (Gyroscopic Actions) of Joe's book may well be one of his fundamental contributions to science: the integration of observable electrical phenomena (between a magnetic field and a conductor) AND the actions of a gyroscope. If you reread this Chapter there are at least two conclusions which can be reached: 1) There is an "particle" within a magnetic field that is moving at a tremendous speed, e.g., "c". 2) This entity interacts with a conductor EXACTLY as does the mechanical actions of a gyroscope. CONCLUSION: There exists within a magnetic field a "field" of gyroscopic particles. EXTRAPOLATION: If this conclusion is correct, then all of the mechanical postulations that Joe has made in the later chapters of his book would indeed follow from his basic connection between "magnetism" and mechanical (gyroscopic) actions. [For his discussion of Lenz's Law, I refer you to pages 59 & 83.] >I haven't been able to reach Hastings. Gene can't find the phone number, a >Soule and Newman both declined to give it out. You've seen the freenrg= >rumor >the Hastings isn't supporting Newman. I have no more info. I could well Well, if you will, rumors "speak for themselves." And they are just that...rumors. In this case, an unfounded one. Dr. Hastings is alive and well and is most interested and supportive of Joe's work. I have faxed him, from time to time, updates (articles/drawings) concerning Joe's improvements to the technology. As I had indicated in an earlier posting, Roger became so inundated with people calling him, writing him at home, at his office -- at all times of the day and night -- that it was really beginning to interfere with both his professional work at his office and his family life. His company was beginning to wonder who he worked for: them or Joe. Roger requested that he "go incognito" for the immediate future and we respect his wishes. Joe has hopes of bringing Roger on board when production of the technology can be initiated. And, as I write this, plans for such production are being actively pursued by Joe. Best regards, Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Address for Joseph Newman: Route 1, Box 52 Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 15 12:50:30 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA29098; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Alexander Lotoski To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Could somebody please explain the Lorentz Rail-Gun anomoly that T. Bearden mentions in his papers... Thanx.. John From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 15 12:59:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA29911; Wed, 15 May 1996 12:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:47:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605151627.JAA03211@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: magnetron engine O/U? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 01:34 AM 5/13/96 -0700, you wrote: >On May 12 Mike Butcher wrote: > > > "Did I understand this correctly, you did get a self-running > > engine to operate just on water? If this is the case then > > your statement "nothing more nothing less" seems a bit > > casual. Or have I misunderstood and you tried and failed to > > get the engine to operate in such a self sustaining mode?" > >Me too, Mike. Frankly, I'm rather suspicious this story was put here to tease >us a bit. My apologies to Timothy Chandler if it's a true story, but I think >you have to admit it looks a little strange as posted here. It's like, yeah, we >got an engine to run on *nothing but water*, and then just shrugged and went on >with our lives. I basically thought it might have been posted as a joke. > >Did anyone here wonder at all what kind of valve or gate arrangement allowed >the microwaves to be guided from the waveguide into the combustion chamber >enclosure to abruptly heat up - what, a water mist(?) - which then expands >against a piston? The air/fuel(water) intake valves are by then closed, but >what about the waveguide openings, aren't they by necessity closed too at that >point to maintain pressure? What was it, a ceramic or somesuch plug in the >spark plug hole that's transparent to microwaves coming down the waveguide? >Timothy didn't say. But he did say the devices powering the spark plugs on a >B&S engine are also called magnetrons. They're actually called magnetos, little >permanent magnet electrical generators. > >We're being exposed to enough talk of overunity this and that nowdays to maybe >just believe that microwaves could somehow boil out that mysterious energy from >the ZPF and such an engine might be possible. Until I see one running, I doubt >it. Open minded skepticism. Then again, I've heard that they had essentially >that up and running in Denver just recently. Supposedly it needed a small >proportion of gasoline in the water to run just right - it got too hot when run >on pure H2O, although it otherwise ran very well even then. I don't know if >this was the latest Meyer-type engine with the on-demand electrolysis being >powered by the mags off the engine, with the resulting HO fuel thus produced >being burned in the cylinder(s). I'd love to see the details. Was anyone there? > >Timothy, *please* don't be offended, but were you serious about this story? > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > I am having difficulty believing that the microwave which could be fitted onto small engine ports could flash the water into steam, even low-grade steam, quickly enough to provide any rpm, seems like you would have to class the output in rph. (hour) ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 16 03:44:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA19238; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605152329.TAA17399@dns.enter.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "David Rosignoli" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ou plasma X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > I have gathered that there have been over a hundred over unity device been built > around the world based on microwave induced plasma. The high temperature plasma > once generated can stay on as long as 10 minutes evan after the power supply is > switched off. Can any one provide more reference on this subject? The only > seemingly relevant reference I can find is: > Y.H.Ohtsuki & H.Ofuruton (1991) Nature Vol 350 p139-141 (14 March 1991); Title: > Plasma fireballs formed by microwave interference in air. > The two physicists were trying to duplicate the ball lightning during storm with > microwave and they observed occasionally the plasma formed can lasts 1-2 second > after the power was switched off. They could not find any explaination for such > phenomenon. > The experiment was based on the Kapitza theory of ball lightning, which only relies on microwaves (I think) to creat ball lightning. However, others have created ball lightning, including R. Golka & N. Tesla. (Golka opened a submarine circuit breaker - the kind that was prone to creating BL - to create a plasma arc that was pushed out; Tesla used his famous Colorado Springs Magnifying Transmitter - a modified Tesla Coil - to create BL using radio frequency em waves.) I was not aware that there was over a 100 of such plasma over unity devices using microwaves. I know that Chernetskii had created over unity conditions with the plasmas he created. I believe he even caused damage to one of the power stations as a result of it. Also, Ken Shoulders had created Electrum Validum, which are globular clusters of electrons, to be used in integrated circuits. I believe they had some weird qualities about them, besides being able to have such a cluster exist. Speed might have been one of them. Omni magazine did a piece on Ken Shoulders, Hal Putthoff and their weird theories a few years back. I know that PACE (the Planetary Association for Clean Energy, a Canadian group) publishes some information on Chernetskii, as well as other literature. That Nature article you found on ball lightning is one of the few rare articles on unusual EM you will find in the mainstream science journals. My suggestion is to try the following: - Do a web search (There are a lot of web sites on weird science. You can find a lot of the below info on those web sites.) - Try the following organizations for their periodicals or books: International Tesla Society Electric Spacecraft Journal PACE Fusion Facts Infinite Energy and anything else that I missed. - Scour the mainstream journals and magazines for the past 140 years. - Do a comprehensive patent search (This is tricky, since a strange patent can be normal at first glance.) I know that some of this information is somewhat general, but that is off the top of my head. If you want to know some more specific information, then email me. I hope this helps you. David Rosignoli drdaveor@enter.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 16 03:49:29 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA19525; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605160400.AAA07256@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Byrun wrote: >I have built MWO's and am familiar with the work of Lakovsky. (sp?) It > is really very difficult to gain the efficacy of his approach. >Something few realize is that he used inert gases, similar to Priorie >in France. This is a very important fact, as it ties together many other points made in this discussion. Lakhovisky (sp?) very quickly dropped the geometric antenna design, and began to produce spcial tubes with tuned elements set is specific frequency progressions. Spark gap fed designs have this frequency signature swamped by noise from the gap. This is a major flaw in the origninal Lakhovisky designs he quickly corrected, but is often duplicated today. One importnat factor in the frequency progressions used, was the number phi, or the Golden Mean. Dan Winter has shown in his work on the interactions of emotion and DNA, that the DNA helix has a lenght to width ratio of phi, and also the significance of phi based frequency progressions in the EEG and EKG of persons in states of "coherent emotion". These same states are also implicated in the stimulation of the neuro-immume system, and spontaneous remissions of terminal diseases and such. Also, the frequency series used by Priorie has connections here. The role played by the Inert gases in these tubes, and in the work of Priorie brings the subject of scalar waves into the picture. As the Inert gases have as many electrons as they do protons (this is why thay are "inert") the atomic currents produced as the electrons and protons precess to align their spin axis to an externally applied magnetic field wil be equal and opposit with net zero vector. This is what Mr. Bearden describes as a scalar condition. We should not overlook the "inert gas beam" devices described by Cooke in this discussion. Simply placing the gas in a sealed container within a divergent magnetic field will cause atomic precession due to the Brownian motion of the gas atoms. As the atoms move through differing magnetic field levels, the atomic precession generates net sum-zero atomic currents. The output of these devices is described in much the same way as the muti-wave oscillator, and the device of Mr. Priorie. May this is not a coincidence? While "paranormal" phenomena have been described as being hard to reproduce, the phenomena of primary perception has been reproduced many times. This may show that some form of communications medim does appear to exist. The interactions of the bioelectric fields of plants and humans is quite easy to test and measure, so the interactions between the bioelectric behaviors of plants in response to the state of mind of a human in proximity can easily be used to verify that this communication is taking place. While a subject might apear paranormal in nature, proper testing can easily be done to study the "interconnectedness of life" through a common medium of bioelectric phenomema and it's interactions with the geomagnetic field. Further study into the scalar components of the bioelectric and geomagnetic fields might well show that many so called paranormal phenomema are actually as accessible to scientific study as many currently conventional subjects are. In my opinion, there is a clear, common thread connecting the DNA spiral, Phi based frequency progressions, EEG and EKG frequency content, emotion, and the neuro-immune system. This common thread does not however stop at the bounderies of an individual organisim, but is the very "interconnectedness" of all things. This common thread might also serve to resolve the apparent paradox of observer created reality, and the apparent commonality of experiences we share. (to a degree only!) If all life is participating in an exchange of information hidden in the noise of the bioelectric and geomagnetic fields, virtually all "paranormal" phenomena might yeild to objective scientific study. The resulting technology might have capabilities we can only describe as being "magical" from the perspective of today's conventional theory. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 16 03:49:40 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA19760; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605160518.WAA05651@primenet.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Stephen Rosenthal" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 19:14:00 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: "Chuck Humphrey" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: More F/E Stuff I was just wondering what happened with the perrault device? Sounds like you delved into it, I have just been watching from the wings, waiting for something other than smoke and mirrors. Was anything you tried of much consequence? Anything look prominsing at all? Thanks, Steve Rosenthal From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 16 03:52:42 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA20062; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Einstein Speaks (and Faraday would smile) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Quote for the day, submitted by Ralph Hartwell (ralph.hartwell@emachine.com): "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." -Albert Einstein 1921 ____________________________ Evan Soule josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684 New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 16 03:53:00 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA20354; Thu, 16 May 1996 03:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605160826.AA23819@student.utwente.nl> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: T.L.G.vanderLinden@student.utwente.nl (Timothy van der Linden) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: ou plasma X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Xiaoming, >I have gathered that there have been over a hundred over unity device been >built around the world based on microwave induced plasma. The high temperature >plasma once generated can stay on as long as 10 minutes evan after the power >supply is switched off. Can any one provide more reference on this subject? Can you remember where you read that (10 minutes without power)? >The only seemingly relevant reference I can find is: >Y.H.Ohtsuki & H.Ofuruton (1991) Nature Vol 350 p139-141 (14 March 1991); Title: >Plasma fireballs formed by microwave interference in air. >The two physicists were trying to duplicate the ball lightning during storm >with microwave and they observed occasionally the plasma formed can lasts 1-2 >second after the power was switched off. They could not find any explaination >for such phenomenon. Yeah, that was the article David Rosignoli and I talked about. I don't agree that this is a relevant article for what you want to see, the microwave Ohtsuki and Ofurton used, had an input varying from 1kW to 5kW. Ball lightings of those sizes do no radiate that much energy (the article says nothing at all about the radiated energy). The article also doesn't say anything about how long the microwave had to be turned on before a ball lightning formed. Then you also left out the part that came after "... they observed occasionally the plasma formed can lasts 1-2 second after the power was switched off", the sentence goes on with ", but its occurence was VERY RARE (usually it was necessary to continue supplying energy to produce fireballs that lasted a considerable length of time)." To me there is a prefectly clear explanation, the energy is build up both inside the resonance cavity and inside the fireball itself, because the plasma ball does not radiate energy away that fast, it can last a bit after the main power has been cut off. Your suggestion is comparable with charging a condensor, cutting the power and say: "Hey, the condensor still gives a small potential, so it is likely to be a overunity device." So people please first try to estimate the input energy, then look at the output. Before that, don't let your mind running (or let confuse yourself) about the processes that happened in the mean time. Timothy P.S. There have been (and still are) many people who think ball lightnings are a powersource, they have been busy for at least 20 years, so far no one has even had the slightest success in getting overunity. If they really are plasma balls made by strong EM-fields then it is unlikely that they are overunity. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 16 19:03:34 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA18560; Thu, 16 May 1996 18:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605161309.GAA07944@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Chuck Humphrey" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A Steve! > I was just wondering what happened with the perrault device? > Sounds like you delved into it, I have just been watching from the > wings, waiting for something other than smoke and mirrors. Was > anything you tried of much consequence? Anything look prominsing at > all? > Thanks, I did build acouple of the tubes and neither workered.. I finally had to sign a non-disclosure statement to learn that the design published by Bruce had never really been built, not did anyone ever build it and made it work. Needless to say I was very disappointed to learn this, but I was even more upset because I had to waste so much of my time chasing down a design that never worked from the onset. The materials I purchased from the Tesla Society and the stuff I downloaded from Bill's web site was all based on theory and was never actually made to work. I have since dropped out of this research and sold off all my supplies.. I still have the tubes, and a lot of various stuff I still want to sell off .. A vacume pump, some 2ft tubes, and some filters etc. KNow anyone who wants to buy any of this stuff? Chuck *-------------------------------------------------------------* * Get Unlimited - uncensored - Internet on a Stick * * full PPP - local phone access account for $15/mo * * download a copy for free * * http://www.unltd.com/next-gen/gallery.html * * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * email:next-gen@ix.netcom.com * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 16 23:47:04 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA10996; Thu, 16 May 1996 23:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 23:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605170358.UAA15254@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: 5/16/96 Another excellent post by Bob Shannon. Bob is to be congratulated on his public coming out on this topic. "One importnat factor in the frequency progressions used, was the number phi, or the Golden Mean. Dan Winter has shown in his work on the interactions of emotion and DNA, that the DNA helix has a lenght to width ratio of phi . . . " This must be taken with a large grain of salt. The width and height of DNA may vary considerably with the type of DNA and ,in particular, with it's base pair sequencing. Measurements of DNA are imprecise, to say the least. Since Winter uses a length to width ratio there must be a huge variation in his calculated values. And, as I understand it, phi is a rather precise number. So, either Winter uses very imprecise "average" DNA measurements or very "selected" DNA measurements to arrive at his very precise phi ratio. "also the significance of phi based frequency progressions in the EEG and EKG of persons in states of "coherent emotion". Care to elaborate on how these EEG and EKG phi based frequency progressions are calculated? "These same states are also implicated in the stimulation of the neuro-immume system, and spontaneous remissions of terminal diseases and such." I see. Could you be more specific, for this list, as to the experimental data that implicates the neuro-immune system is stimulated and there is spontaneous remissions of terminal diseases and such by these same states? "The role played by the Inert gases in these tubes, and in the work of Priorie brings the subject of scalar waves into the picture. As the Inert gases have as many electrons as they do protons . . ." Correct "(this is why thay are "inert") . . ." Incorrect. All neutral, naturally occurring elements have equal numbers of electrons and protons denoted by their atomic numbers. This includes the Noble elements and is in no way why they are classified as inert. They are inert because their valence shell is completely occupied by electrons. Check the Periodic Table of Elements for the Noble Gases (far right column) and you will find that He has two and all the rest have eight electrons in their valence shells. Complete valence compliments. " the atomic currents produced as the electrons and protons precess to align their spin axis to an externally applied magnetic field wil be equal and opposit with net zero vector. . ." Incorrect again. In an H nucleus (a single proton) there may be procession of the nucleus, hence nuclear magnetic resonance. But, Noble gases have even numbers of protons in each nucleus and, as you know, they have matched opposed spins. Even if you could manage to overcome the weak force and rearrange nuclear protons with an external magnetic field, there is the little matter of spin conservation. Guess what. The electrons in a Noble gas are also even ( matching the number of protons) and they also are opposed spin matched pairs. As you know these electrons are not free. They are in quantatized "orbits" around the nucleus. They are not some fuzzy, amorphous cloud just hanging around the nucleus. Even if you were fortunate enough to hold them in a single plane and flip their spins with an external magnetic field, on the opposite side of the orbit they would oppose your magnetic field. Then again, there is the little matter of spin conservation with the opposing spin partner. Please explain to the list your concept of "atomic current" and exactly how they sum to net zero vector. "This is what Mr. Bearden describes as a scalar condition." As a friend once told me, "Bearden blows smoke". Bearden and Newman share a lot in common. An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental proof and voila some profound truth about Nature. And everyone else had damn well better believe it. Great care must be taken not to be Newmanized. "While a subject might apear paranormal in nature, proper testing can easily be done to study the "interconnectedness of life" through a common medium of bioelectric phenomema and it's interactions with the geomagnetic field." Very bold statement. Tell us about proper testing that is easily done. "In my opinion, there is a clear, common thread connecting the DNA spiral, Phi based frequency progressions, EEG and EKG frequency content, emotion, and the neuro-immune system. This common thread does not however stop at the bounderies of an individual organisim, but is the very "interconnectedness" of all things." I respect your opinion very much. So, what , in your opinion, is this clear, common thread? "The resulting technology might have capabilities we can only describe as being "magical" from the perspective of today's conventional theory." Agreed. RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:32:13 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA07002; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 16 May 1996, Chuck Humphrey wrote: > I did build acouple of the tubes and neither workered.. I finally > had to sign a non-disclosure statement to learn that the design > published by Bruce had never really been built, not did anyone ever > build it and made it work. Needless to say I was very disappointed > to learn this, but I was even more upset because I had to waste so > much of my time chasing down a design that never worked from the > onset. Bad news. I'll take that file off my page. Does Jerry Decker know the situation? ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:44:31 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA08781; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605171503.IAA26916@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Twisters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Has anyone tried pointing a Reich cloudbuster at a tornado? Regards; Dennis C. Lee From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:43:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA09933; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605171714.NAA20206@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I had written: >"One importnat factor in the frequency progressions used, was the >number phi, or the Golden Mean. Dan Winter has shown in his work on >the interactions of emotion and DNA, that the DNA helix has a lenght to >width ratio of phi . . . " Mr. Wall wrote: >This must be taken with a large grain of salt. The width and height of >DNA may vary considerably with the type of DNA and ,in particular, with >it's base pair sequencing. Measurements of DNA are imprecise, to say >the least. Since Winter uses a length to width ratio there must be a >huge variation in his calculated values. And, as I understand it, phi >is a rather precise number. So, either Winter uses very imprecise >"average" DNA measurements or very "selected" DNA measurements to >arrive at his very precise phi ratio. Really? I had quite a different impression. I thought that no matter of the four whatevers connected each spiral, they were of the same size. This would give the spiral a rather specific lenght to width ratio for 360 degrees of the spiral. Does not all known life use those same four chemical "bits" between each spiral, and if so, why does the ratio vary with different sequences of those same chemicals? Is this due to forces between each "rung" of the ladder? Perhaps there is a mean ratio, with some variation above and below this mean as a result of the information content? Would this be more correct, or do external forces effect the ratio? Mr. Wall also asked: >Care to elaborate on how these EEG and EKG phi based frequency >progressions are calculated? In my experience, these are measured and observed rather than calculated. Normally, you expect to see harmonic progressions in for form 1f, 2f, etc. In some cases however, we see 1f, (Phi f) progressions. Usually, these frequencies are not static, but mildly chaotic while still following the Phi based frequency seperations. This is evident in the geomagnetic field. I'm not clear on just how many differnet phi based progressions might exist. Can we even say how many Fibbonachi type sequences exist? I wrote: >"These same states are also implicated in the stimulation of the >neuro-immume system, and spontaneous remissions of terminal diseases >and such." Dr. Wall has caught me on his side of the street (Oops!), and asked: >I see. Could you be more specific, for this list, as to the >experimental data that implicates the neuro-immune system is stimulated >and there is spontaneous remissions of terminal diseases and such by >these same states? Check the Monroe institute web site. Also, in the book "The Holographic Universe" by Talbot there are reproductions of rather dramatic X-rays of a remission apparently brought about by "visiulation", which induces the types of frequency signatures discussed here in the EEG. I wrote: >"(this is why thay are "inert") . . ." Dr. wall caught me on this one as follows: >Incorrect. All neutral, naturally occurring elements have equal >numbers of electrons and protons denoted by their atomic numbers. This >includes the Noble elements and is in no way why they are classified as >inert. They are inert because their valence shell is completely >occupied by electrons. Check the Periodic Table of Elements for the >Noble Gases (far right column) and you will find that He has two and >all the rest have eight electrons in their valence shells. Complete >valence compliments. Yep, I blew that one. Thanks Doc. I also wrote: >" the atomic currents produced as the electrons and protons precess to >align their spin axis to an externally applied magnetic field wil be >equal and opposit with net zero vector. . ." Mr. Wall responded: >Incorrect again. In an H nucleus (a single proton) there may be >procession of the nucleus, hence nuclear magnetic resonance. But, >Noble gases have even numbers of protons in each nucleus and, as you >know, they have matched opposed spins. Even if you could manage to >overcome the weak force and rearrange nuclear protons with an external >magnetic field, there is the little matter of spin conservation. Guess >what. The electrons in a Noble gas are also even ( matching the number >of protons) and they also are opposed spin matched pairs. As you know >these electrons are not free. They are in quantatized "orbits" around >the nucleus. They are not some fuzzy, amorphous cloud just hanging >around the nucleus. Even if you were fortunate enough to hold them in >a single plane and flip their spins with an external magnetic field, on >the opposite side of the orbit they would oppose your magnetic field. >Then again, there is the little matter of spin conservation with the >opposing spin partner. > >Please explain to the list your concept of "atomic current" and exactly >how they sum to net zero vector. Ok, Proton precession magnetometers, and MRI scanners operate by detecting the EM radiation from particle precession induced by an external magnetic field. The protons can and do align to external fields, and in so doing induce atomic currents that we detect as the EM radiation emitted. Yes, spin is conserved, and in some atoms the induced currents are equal and opposit. Such materials do not produce a strong magnetic resonance response, but the potnetials are still present. In fact, only the potnetials of opposed vectors are present in the situation described. What does the electrons being locked into orbits have to do with this? Oh yes, they are quite fuzzy, qantum things, not Newtons little balls, and there is evidence that their sense of spin does not quite fit into ours as it takes 720 degrees of rotation of the spin to appear unchanged. >As a friend once told me, "Bearden blows smoke". Bearden and Newman >share a lot in common. An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental >proof and voila some profound truth about Nature. And everyone else >had damn well better believe it. Great care must be taken not to be >Newmanized. A statement such as this, IS blowing smoke. No one need beleive what I state as opinion. Your statement "An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental proof and voila some profound truth about Nature." has a number of flaws. First, it is your opinion that the theory is "wild", and also your presume without facts in eviudence that "no valid experimental proof" exists to support the theory. As it was forwarded as theory, why do you attack it on the grounds of lack of proof? There is evidence for it. Don't give up your day job to become a clairvoyant. Where is the evidence for your objectivity in this statement Dr. Wall? Yes, in my opinion Mr. Bearden has obfuscated several specific technical points for reasons unknown. This does not show a lack of evidence however. As I am poking around experimentally looking for truth, I don't quite see how "Numanization" enters the picture, on my side. I did not claim profund truth. I also wrote: >"While a subject might apear paranormal in nature, proper testing can >easily be done to study the "interconnectedness of life" through a >common medium of bioelectric phenomema and it's interactions with the >geomagnetic field." Mr. wall responded: >Very bold statement. Tell us about proper testing that is easily done. I suggest that the simplest way to proceed would be to repeat the tests of so called "primary perception". First these tests would be repeated as they have been documented to verify that the tests did produce the phenomena described. Next, these tests would be repeated with the addition of monitor devices for the geomagnetic, electrostatic, and bioelectric fields, and that the data from these monitor devices be analized for frequency content. It is then a matter of extracting and patterns of frequency content over time in response to the stimuli apparently being communicated via the process of "primary perception". Also, I suggest that the experiments reported by the Heart Math Institute as described by Dan Winter be revisited in a similar way. If the promary perception testing shows a relationship between bioelectric and other fields, and the tests by the Heart Math Institute also show the relationship between a "coherent state of emotion" and the bioelectric activity in a plant, then net tests shuld be designed to check that the primary perception and the human to plant connections are in any way different processes. I understand that the May Scientific American has a simple geomagnetic monitoring device. This might serve as the basis for a montoring device. >I respect your opinion very much. So, what , in your opinion, is this >clear, common thread? Thanks, I think that you will find that indeed "primary perception" does happen, and that there will be a direct relationship between the bioelectric activity in the two biological "transducers" and the local geomagnetic and electrostatic fields. This relationship is a reversable process in that it both effects, and is effected by the biological transducer. What exactly is happening in between we cannot say, because if we interoduce a transducer there, we are still only ever measuring the "near field" condition as opposed to the "far field" free space condition. The net result is that the bioelectric and geomagnetic environment might be the common thread. It might also be possible that the chaotic flux of the quantum vacuum itself is a medium for some form of communications we are only perhpherally aware of currently. Wholly different transducers would be needed to verify this aspect of the theory. It's just a theory, not intended to have any profund effects other than to have a few people ask questions, and maybe address those questions with direct experimental inquiry. From my tinkering, I think there might be something to it. It shure would explain a heck of a lot of persistant phenomena that might not currently have a good explaination without doing much harm to accepted theory. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:46:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10299; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960517155155_115764417@emout19.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: MGEINC@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-05-16 22:01:06 EDT, you write: (snip) > I still have the tubes, and >a lot of various stuff I still want to sell off .. A vacume pump, >some 2ft tubes, and some filters etc. KNow anyone who wants to buy >any of this stuff? Why didn't you tell me? -mike mgeinc@aol.com From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:50:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10698; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Einstein Speaks (and Faraday would smile) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 16 May 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > Quote for the day, submitted by Ralph Hartwell (ralph.hartwell@emachine.com): > > "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are > not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer > to reality." > -Albert Einstein 1921 > > ____________________________ > Evan Soule > josephnewman@earthlink.net > (504) 524-3063 > > P.O. Box 57684 > New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684 > > > I would suggest that as the laws of mathematics become more clearly evident they will be be better able to describe reality with greater certainty. We are now starting to see patterns in chaos, can deal with structures at subatomic levels, and think that quarks have parts. Not bad for 75 years. Starship ----------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:54:01 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11108; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6671517EB9@enterprise.cia.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Rob Polley" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 23:39:09 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. > > "While a subject might apear paranormal in nature, proper testing can > easily be done to study the "interconnectedness of life" through a > common medium of bioelectric phenomema and it's interactions with the > geomagnetic field." > > Very bold statement. Tell us about proper testing that is easily done. > Hi, I have been watching this discusion with interest for about a week now. I think it is possible to do some real solid research work in this area through the study of psychokinesis. I discovered that I had some ability in this area 25 years ago and have been working to develop this skill to the point where I could produce consistant results under labratory conditions. I believe I have reached that point now. If anyone knows of individuals or institutions doing valid research in this field who could use a "gifted subject" please let me know. -Rob From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:54:12 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11490; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Einstein Speaks (and Faraday would smile) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >On Thu, 16 May 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > >> Quote for the day, submitted by Ralph Hartwell (ralph.hartwell@emachine.com): >> >> "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are >> not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer >> to reality." >> -Albert Einstein 1921 >> >> ____________________________ >> Evan Soule >> josephnewman@earthlink.net >> (504) 524-3063 >> >> P.O. Box 57684 >> New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684 >> >> >> >I would suggest that as the laws of mathematics become more clearly >evident they will be be better able to describe reality with greater >certainty. > >We are now starting to see patterns in chaos, can deal with structures >at subatomic levels, and think that quarks have parts. >Not bad for 75 years. > Starship >----------- Yes, we have come a long way since 1 + 1 = 2.....although, in historical retrospect it is amazing what the computer has done with just "1" and "0"...let us hope that progress will continue via creativity, curiosity, independent initiative, and imagination. Thanks in part to the timely struggles of Galois, the sensitivity to mechanics of Maxwell, and the essential creativity of Noether, mathematics may indeed "asymptotically" approach a description of reality with both precision AND accuracy. Operationally-speaking, mathematics (as well as mechanical models) is an important tool of humanity -- especially of our most creative minds. And it is such creative minds which will bring us closer to the stars. Perhaps --- in an allegoric and even poetic sense --- such creativity (and, most importantly, the Archimedean leverage it can represent) is a "bio-intellectual" form of "free energy." As one 20th century genius stated, "The idea that humanity should not perish for the sake of her great creative minds was always present to me, and I feel it as the only argument in favor of its conservation." Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 17 21:58:46 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA12084; Fri, 17 May 1996 21:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 21:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Sakharov Electronic Conference Idea - To Start It X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ------------------------ Please Post and Forward: ------------------------ Sakharov Electronic Conference Idea - To Start It To: pgb@padrak.com From: Andrey Terentyev Date: Thu, 16 May 96 17:10:42 +0400 Subject: Sakharov To Patrick Bailey, Institute for New Energy Dear Mr. Bailey! Greetings from Russia! Thank you for sending answer to my e-mail message. I beg your pardon for answering so belatedly, but I've no e-mail terminal of my own, so I must ac- comodate to circumstances. Thank you for offering to spread my message further via INE Web; - this will help to generate more good karma. As now there is approaching a quite memorable date for all New Energy explorers: 75th anniversary of birthday of Acad. Sakharov, who had made very significant contributions to vacuum exploration & other energy-related pro- blems. A group of Leading Edge researchers here - including my friends from Buddhist Community, interested in drawing parallels between Buddhist & modern scientific theories of vacuum - thinks that it may be a good idea to start on May 21 '96: Sakharov's 75th birthday - a permanent electronic conference, de- dicated to free & wide discussion of problems of moral responsibility of Lea- ding Edge explorers, - and related topics (such as, for example, New Technolo- gies' environmental impact). As we here aren't well enough experienced in InterNet lore (we cannot, for example, to afford ourselves on-line service), we'd be very grateful to any kind of help from our more experienced colleagues; - including relevant "know -how" anent e-mail conferences. I think that the name of Sakharov does possess sufficient "psychomagnetic power" to attract into participating in such conference some of well-known productive scientists & inventors; - thereby promoting New Energy explorations' progress, while helping to keep it in balance with other social requirements. You may post at this projected conference's Bulletin Board my previous mes -sage; - suitably rephrased, of course. With best wishes & hope for fruitful cooperation, Sincerely yours Constantin I. Ivanenko St. Petersburg, RUSSIA From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 18 12:50:47 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA01856; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605180502.PAA02140@clothes> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Check the Monroe institute web site. Also, in the book "The Holographic >Universe" by Talbot there are reproductions of rather dramatic X-rays of >a remission apparently brought about by "visiulation", which induces the >types of frequency signatures discussed here in the EEG. > >I wrote: > >>"(this is why thay are "inert") . . ." > >Dr. wall caught me on this one as follows: Interesting thing about the Monroe process......They use hemisync tapes to progress you down thru alpha (they call it focus 10) to Focus 27...which is out-of-body stuff. Their focus 15 level appears to be somewhat equivalent to light theta. This is where healing seems to take place...as do psychokinetic effects. Not too much is known about theta...but I've used it recently to remove 2 moles from my neck. Simply visualized (graphically) a force of microbes attacking the offending cells. Deep theta and light delta is where you can change your entire automatic programming such as heart-beat etc. I use this when I go to the dentist to avoid injections. Freaks the dentist right out! Jim Francis Editor Australian Lateral Thinking Newsletter http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 18 12:50:51 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02383; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605180507.PAA02244@clothes> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Hi, I have been watching this discusion with interest for about a >week now. > >I think it is possible to do some real solid research work in this >area through the study of psychokinesis. I discovered that I had >some ability in this area 25 years ago and have been working to >develop this skill to the point where I could produce consistant >results under labratory conditions. I believe I have reached that >point now. > >If anyone knows of individuals or institutions doing valid research >in this field who could use a "gifted subject" please let me know. > >-Rob > Rob.....get hold of Robert Jahn or Brenda Dunne at the PEAR Lab at Princeton University. Or Laurie Gamble...he is the manager of the unit. They are basically the leaders in the PK research field. If you search under "cognitive" you'll find them. Jim Francis Australian Lateral Thinking Newsletter From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 18 12:52:04 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02694; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605181209.NAA06208@mail.eclipse.co.uk> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Alan Hooppell To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Ball Lightning X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A Regarding the speed of BL. I recall my late father telling me about an instance that he witnessed during his national service period in the middle east. Egypt, Palestine? I don't recall. The BL he described to me was about a metre diameter, and gently floated and bobbed what I imagine to be several tens of metres, before hitting a diamond mesh chain-link metal fence and dissipating in a flash. I don't know what state the fence was left in. For what its worth. Alan Hooppell ah8341@eclipse.co.uk From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 18 12:53:52 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02887; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605181311.IAA18774@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Twisters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >Has anyone tried pointing a Reich cloudbuster at a tornado? > >Regards; >Dennis C. Lee > > No ... interesting thought! I've had my opportunities! (I am an ESDA tornado spotter, and we had one pass through Urbana IL a few weeks ago, passed about 1 1/2 miles south of my house while I was out "spotting" it.) Where can I find info on how to build a cloudbuster? I noticed that wasn't on the Orgonomy homepage. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 18 12:55:04 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA03073; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605181505.IAA25952@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Chuck Humphrey" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > On Thu, 16 May 1996, Chuck Humphrey wrote: > > > I did build acouple of the tubes and neither workered.. I finally > > had to sign a non-disclosure statement to learn that the design > > published by Bruce had never really been built, not did anyone ever > > build it and made it work. Needless to say I was very disappointed > > to learn this, but I was even more upset because I had to waste so > > much of my time chasing down a design that never worked from the > > onset. > > Bad news. I'll take that file off my page. Does Jerry Decker know the > situation? I have'nt told anyone of this yet, but you are sure welcome to tell Jerry and anyone else who might want to know.. I feel like the published materials by bruce not only contains gross inaccuracies with regard to the circuitry and components but was outright deceptive as he had never even built the tube shown in the book I bought for $35 from the Telsa Society.. I no of no one who ever constructed these tubes much more made them work... By all means tell anyone you want, I will be happy to retract this if anyone has information that is to the contrary.. I spent a great deal of time and money trying to build these tubes under the mistaken impression that they had been built and had worked.. I am not suggesting that research in this area sould stop, but I feel that any material people publish about anything they build should first be prefaced with whether or not the device has been built. I feel that material such as the one I am referring to is DISINFORMATION by default. I would hope others who travel the same path don't waste their time chasing DISINFORMATION. Chuck *-------------------------------------------------------------* * Get Unlimited - uncensored - Internet on a Stick * * full PPP - local phone access account for $15/mo * * download a copy for free * * http://www.unltd.com/next-gen/gallery.html * * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * email:next-gen@ix.netcom.com * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 18 12:58:33 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA03290; Sat, 18 May 1996 12:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605181505.IAA25957@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Chuck Humphrey" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mike! > > I still have the tubes, and > >a lot of various stuff I still want to sell off .. A vacume pump, > >some 2ft tubes, and some filters etc. KNow anyone who wants to buy > >any of this stuff? > > Why didn't you tell me? > I don't really have a good excuse... A simple oversight on my part for not mentioning this... I guess at the time I made my first post I had not gone through all the stuff I had accumulated. If you are interested in the pump, hoses, valves, fitting (partly constructed radiant tubes) and various parts then send me an e-mail or call me (303) 457-1047 Chuck *-------------------------------------------------------------* * Get Unlimited - uncensored - Internet on a Stick * * full PPP - local phone access account for $15/mo * * download a copy for free * * http://www.unltd.com/next-gen/gallery.html * * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * email:next-gen@ix.netcom.com * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 00:20:14 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA01553; Sun, 19 May 1996 00:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Tony Rusi To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Al Greene's experiment and Re: Ball Lightning X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Art Bell has alot lot of whacko's on his radio show but a gentleman who is really into radio named Al Greene (sp?) was on a while back talking about a "cold fusion" experiment that required two nickels, 30 volts, and sodium bicarbonate in solution. Has anyone done this one? Is there anything in print on this one? Greene has some ham mag called "73" and some mag called "cold fusion." He was supposed to have started PC magazine. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 00:21:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA01801; Sun, 19 May 1996 00:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605182104.OAA28583@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc.[2] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: 5/18/96 Re: DNA "Really? I had quite a different impression. I thought that no matter of the four whatevers connected each spiral, they were of the same size. This would give the spiral a rather specific lenght to width ratio for 360 degrees of the spiral." Yes, really. DNA is a biological molecule that is dynamic in the size and shape of it's structure. This is especially so in living organisms, the place it lives, replicates and functions. There are basically two different types of DNA - A and B. ( Z exists and is really wild in form) A and B may exist in hydrated crystals in isolated form and examined by crystallography (usually the B form). This is how it is usually examined and is totally an artificial environment for natural DNA. After it is fixed in this way the specimen becomes totally an artifact, as it does not exist in nature in this form. Therefore, these measurements are also artifactual. In its natural form it resides in chromatin and assumes many forms. So, in it's natural state it's unclear what it looks like since it's very dynamic and assumes many forms and shapes on a molecular basis. "Does not all known life use those same four chemical "bits" between each spiral, and if so, why does the ratio vary with different sequences of those same chemicals? Is this due to forces between each "rung" of the ladder?" I'm very glad you relate DNA to life forms because that's the only place it counts. Yes, there are five nucleic acids that form precise base pairs. These pairs form hydrogen bonds that literally "hold" both DNA strands together centrally in the double helix. (A gross over simplification) It's the base pair sequencing in triplicate code that allows DNA (RNA) to form the blue print of all known life forms. The answer your question about why the ratio varies with the different sequences of bases is very simple. Winter defines his ratio as Length (360 deg turn ) / Width = Phi Ratio. So, anything that alters length or width of DNA alters his "phi ratio". And, as you may guess, since DNA is a very live and a very dynamic molecule this is constantly happening. Visualize this. The flat base pairs actually stack flat and their P orbitals on each "rung" overlap and form Pi bonding. This greatly contributes to DNA stability. These plate pairs are orthogonally arranged. Now this is really cool. DNA has this amazing dynamic characteristic of supercoiling. Topological stresses cause these flat bases to tilt in their relationship to each other. They still have pi bonding, but they are no longer perfectly orthogonally arranged. (Ring any spatial dimension bells, Bob?) This tilting is very easy as these bonds are flexible and "bend". The DNA length changes and to a much lesser extent the width changes. In my own limited intellect, I visualize DNA as a very elastic spring such as a double slinky. Fix one end and turn the other end (rotation does not matter since DNA has both positive and negative supercoiling). This simple experiment demonstrates both the length and width of the spring easily vary. Now move to DNA. When the nuclear protein coat is stripped away and "pure" DNA strands are suspended in a solution small variations in salt concentration cause both + and - supercoiling which is easily demonstrated by EM (electron microscopy). Supercoiling is absolutely essential for DNA in chromatin. Real life DNA is constantly dynamically reacting to and influencing it's local (and nonlocal, in my view) environment. To name a few, pH, inorganic salt ions, H2O, histones, polyamines and especially polyanions chemically, dynamically influence the shape and structure of DNA. As an aside, when topological stresses become great enough the DNA helix twists upon itself and forms a secondary DNA helix. Sort of like twisting and knoting a rubber band. More stress, a tertiary DNA helix forms. So, self similarity on different scales. (My word, Ring any fractal dimension bells?). Reference by request. A question for one and all. What is the REAL length and width of any functioning segment of DNA? Answer to this question allows evaluation of the accuracy of Winter's so called DNA Phi based ratio. "Perhaps there is a mean ratio, with some variation above and below this mean as a result of the information content? Would this be more correct, or do external forces effect the ratio?" Thanks for this easy one, Bob. Now it's my turn to knock it out of the park. Last first. Yes, both external and internal forces both dynamically affect DNA length and width as posted above. As you know and have recently most eloquently elaborated, good science is practiced by definite and defined order. A branch of pathologic science involves first defining the result, then narrowly devising a scheme or experiment, to the exclusion of all others, that "proves" the foregone conclusion. The dependent variable (Winter's Phi in this case) is chosen, the independent variables are very selectively chosen to the exclusion of all others (Winter's DNA length and width) and then a mathematical formula is concocted (Winter's DNA L/W ratio). Nature, as the final arbiter, is exquisitely precise. So, if the final results don't exactly match the dependent variables precision, it's OK to fudge a little. Next the independent variables are rearranged or reselected for better precision and match with the foregone conclusion. Maybe the mathematical formula needs to be redesigned (Nature really respects our mathematics, right?). Gosh! still not close enough. Well, we can always average values. Average what? Oh, Yeah! "Perhaps there is a mean ratio, with some variation above and below this mean as a result of the information content? . . ." So now this very precise, so called Golden Mean has pejorated into an ordinary mean ratio and Nature is really impressed. Total scientific rubbish. This type of "science" should arouse immediate skepticism and open minded criticism. Off topic, but the same scheme goes for McClain and Wooten with their MRA pontification about phi, psi, tetrahedrons, et cetera, ad nauseam. We've all heard it before. The Holy Grail is first found then there are all kinds of acrobatics proposed to explain it. Re: EEG and EKG phi based frequency progressions are calculations. "In my experience, these are measured and observed rather than calculated. Normally, you expect to see harmonic progressions in for form 1f, 2f, etc. In some cases however, we see 1f, (Phi f) progressions. Usually, these frequencies are not static, but mildly chaotic while still following the Phi based frequency seperations. This is evident in the geomagnetic field." Good to see you measuring here. There is a little calculation involved though if you derived phi from the data. Measurements imply measuring points. Exactly what were your measuring points in the EKG and EEG wave forms? How did you measure the chaotic content of the wave forms? How and what is evident in the geomagnetic field? And how did you measure it in the geomagnetic field? RWW wrote: >I see. Could you be more specific, for this list, as to the >experimental data that implicates the neuro-immune system is >stimulated and there is spontaneous remissions of terminal diseases >and such by these same states? "Check the Monroe institute web site. Also, in the book "The Holographic Universe" by Talbot there are reproductions of rather dramatic X-rays of a remission apparently brought about by "visiulation", which induces the types of frequency signatures discussed here in the EEG." Sorry, cannot find it on Monroe web site. Haven't read "The Holographic Universe", but I do know in my field, extreme caution must be exercised in drawing a broad general conclusion from a single noncontroled case. Too many uncontrolled variables and no control on bias - at all. RWW wrote. >As a friend once told me, "Bearden blows smoke". Bearden and Newman >share a lot in common. An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental >proof and voila some profound truth about Nature. And everyone else >had damn well better believe it. Great care must be taken not to be >Newmanized. "A statement such as this, IS blowing smoke. No one need beleive what I state as opinion. Your statement "An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental proof and voila some profound truth about Nature." has a number of flaws. First, it is your opinion that the theory is "wild", and also your presume without facts in eviudence that "no valid experimental proof" exists to support the theory. As it was forwarded as theory, why do you attack it on the grounds of lack of proof? There is evidence for it. Don't give up your day job to become a clairvoyant. Where is the evidence for your objectivity in this statement Dr. Wall? Yes, in my opinion Mr. Bearden has obfuscated several specific technical points for reasons unknown. This does not show a lack of evidence however. As I am poking around experimentally looking for truth, I don't quite see how "Numanization" enters the picture, on my side. I did not claim profund truth." Come now, Bob. You are completely, subjectively misinterpreting, internalizing and personalizing this whole paragraph. It is a generalized statement in reference to your comment regarding Mr. Bearden. You were not singled out as the target. There are no individualized targets. It is a generalized philosophical statement regarding my view of the good conduct of science, which I thought you adhered to. As an aside, you are the friend who made the "Bearden blows smoke" comment. Read "Bearden and Newman share a lot in common. An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental proof and voila some profound truth about Nature. And everyone else had damn well better believe it." carefully in context and you will suddenly discover Bob Shannon isn't in it. It is flawless and merely describes my differences with the way two people choose to conduct their science and impress their ideas on others. Your theories were not in anyway attacked or discredited. This is an intellectual discussion of a topic for which I applauded your courage to publicly bring forward. In an effort to flesh out some of your ideas for this forum, which may be right or wrong, I took the next step and ask for experimental proof beyond theory. Isn't this the correct thing to do? In view of your statement, "Yes, in my opinion Mr. Bearden has obfuscated several specific technical points for reasons unknown. This does not show a lack of evidence however.", I feel this procedure is also appropriate for the other two individuals mentioned in this discussion. But, as you know, they have a radically different way of conducting science and dealing with those who question their methods. Perhaps I'm wrong. Also, there is no implication that you have lack of evidence for any of your theories. Just requests. "Don't give up your day job to become a clairvoyant. Where is the evidence for your objectivity in this statement Dr. Wall?" I claim no objectivity in uttering subjective statements about my philosophical views. Is objectivity a requirement in this arena? First sentence ignored. The Neumanizing crack is meant for all, including my self. It stands. As in all humor, there is a modicum of truth. The truth here is be vigilant and don't let others impress false science upon you. In my opinion, Neuman's shoe does not fit Shannon's foot. You read it wrong and personalized it, Bob. On my behalf, if I misled you into your interpretation, I apologize to you for any thing I wrote causing offense to you. RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 00:23:06 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA02013; Sun, 19 May 1996 00:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <17DC14F23@enterprise.cia.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Rob Polley" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:46:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. >Hi, I have been watching this discusion with interest for about a >week now. > >I think it is possible to do some real solid research work in this >area through the study of psychokinesis. I discovered that I had >some ability in this area 25 years ago and have been working to >develop this skill to the point where I could produce consistant >results under labratory conditions. I believe I have reached that >point now. > >If anyone knows of individuals or institutions doing valid research >in this field who could use a "gifted subject" please let me know. > >-Rob > Rob.....get hold of Robert Jahn or Brenda Dunne at the PEAR Lab at Princeton University. Or Laurie Gamble...he is the manager of the unit. They are basically the leaders in the PK research field. If you search under "cognitive" you'll find them. Jim Francis Australian Lateral Thinking Newsletter Thanks Jim I will follow up on that. -Rob From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 00:27:37 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA02164; Sun, 19 May 1996 00:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1E95E77C0@enterprise.cia.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Rob Polley" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:43:06 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re:Double helix, MWO, etc. > > >Check the Monroe institute web site. Also, in the book "The Holographic > >Universe" by Talbot there are reproductions of rather dramatic X-rays of > >a remission apparently brought about by "visiulation", which induces the > >types of frequency signatures discussed here in the EEG. Holographic Universe is an incredible book..... I understand Micheal Talbot died about a year ago, its a real shame I was looking forward to his future work. > Interesting thing about the Monroe process......They use hemisync tapes to > progress you down thru alpha (they call it focus 10) to Focus 27...which is > out-of-body stuff. > Their focus 15 level appears to be somewhat equivalent to light theta. > This is where healing seems to take place...as do psychokinetic effects. I am curious where you are getting this information from. I have been to the Monroe Institute , and was a Gateway Outreach trainer a few years ago. The Hemi-Sync tapes are engineered to produce various states through inducing a combination of different frequencies, for example Focus 10 they call the "body asleep - mind awake state". It is induced using 1.5 Hz to put the body out, 4 Hz to create a sort of lucid dream state, and a bit of 14 Hz to keep you just alert enough to enjoy the trip. There is no Alpha present in Focus 10 at all. Unless they have changed their policy in the last few years tapes with a higher focus number than 12 where not for distribution outside the Institute at all. > Not too much is known about theta...but I've used it recently to remove 2 > moles from my neck. Simply visualized (graphically) a force of microbes > attacking the offending cells. > Deep theta and light delta is where you can change your entire automatic > programming such as heart-beat etc. I use this when I go to the dentist to > avoid injections. Freaks the dentist right out! How did you go about getting yourself into that state? From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 00:28:28 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA02269; Sun, 19 May 1996 00:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 00:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960519021901_297365924@emout17.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: NLSilliman@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double Helix, MWO, etc X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Mr. Wall, I liked your response to the careless statements from Bob Shannon (Re. Double Helix). I would have asked nearly the same questions that you did (maybe not as diplomatically as you). I had picked up on these statements (but missed the ones in the next section). " that the DNA helix has a lenght to width ratio of phi . . . " "(this is why thay are "inert") . . ." " the atomic currents produced as the electrons and protons precess to align their spin axis to an externally applied magnetic field wil be equal and opposit with net zero vector. . ." Please explain to the list your concept of "atomic current" and exactly how they sum to net zero vector. "This is what Mr. Bearden describes as a scalar condition." As a friend once told me, "Bearden blows smoke". Bearden and Newman share a lot in common. An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental proof and voila some profound truth about Nature. And everyone else had damn well better believe it. Great care must be taken not to be Newmanized. The next section is about feelings and emotions. I would love to see someone (anyone) quantify any of these concepts. Since no one knows much about the following, I had just turned on my ‘smoke detector' and ignored them. I very much liked your requests for more data (rather than more theory). "also the significance of phi based frequency progressions in the EEG and EKG of persons in states of "coherent emotion". Care to elaborate on how these EEG and EKG phi based frequency progressions are calculated? "These same states are also implicated in the stimulation of the neuro-immume system, and spontaneous remissions of terminal diseases and such." [Why does a disease have to be terminal to be a candidate for spontaneous remission?] "While a subject might apear paranormal in nature, proper testing can easily be done to study the "interconnectedness of life" through a common medium of bioelectric phenomema and it's interactions with the geomagnetic field." Very bold statement. Tell us about proper testing that is easily done. "In my opinion, there is a clear, common thread connecting the DNA spiral, Phi based frequency progressions, EEG and EKG frequency content, emotion, and the neuro-immune system. I respect your opinion very much. So, what , in your opinion, is this clear, common thread? "The resulting technology might have capabilities we can only describe as being "magical" from the perspective of today's conventional theory." Thank you again for the ‘smoke detector' examples. Norm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 02:33:00 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA24138; Sun, 19 May 1996 02:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605190803.SAA00582@clothes> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >> Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:43:06 -0700 (PDT) >> Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >> From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) >> To: Multiple recipients of list >> Subject: Re:Double helix, MWO, etc. > >I am curious where you are getting this information from. I have >been to the Monroe Institute , and was a Gateway Outreach trainer a >few years ago. The Hemi-Sync tapes are engineered to produce various >states through inducing a combination of different frequencies, for >example Focus 10 they call the "body asleep - mind awake state". It >is induced using 1.5 Hz to put the body out, 4 Hz to create a sort of >lucid dream state, and a bit of 14 Hz to keep you just alert enough >to enjoy the trip. There is no Alpha present in Focus 10 at all. > >Unless they have changed their policy in the last few years tapes >with a higher focus number than 12 where not for distribution outside >the Institute at all. I was at the Gateway recently and I equated the feel of Focus 10 with the alpha state I am used to. Likewise with theta and the Focus 15 state. They may well be slightly different altered consciousness states but in talking to the instructors there I gained the impression that the above analysis would be approximately correct. That is...to me...the "feel" was about the same. When I left the Gateway I purchased the new "Going Home" series which goes right up to Focus 27. It is out-of-body stuff designed for terminal patients. Apparently they don't produce commercial tapes above Focus 27 for obvious reasons. > >> Not too much is known about theta...but I've used it recently to remove 2 >> moles from my neck. Simply visualized (graphically) a force of microbes >> attacking the offending cells. >> Deep theta and light delta is where you can change your entire automatic >> programming such as heart-beat etc. I use this when I go to the dentist to >> avoid injections. Freaks the dentist right out! > >How did you go about getting yourself into that state? For years I have been practicing self hpynosis and like Pavlov's dogs eventually got my mind trained to alter consciousness as a trained reflex. Its not the sort of thing you can achieve without a lot of practice but post hypnotic suggestions may be one way round this. Hypnosis however is a different mind-state from Focus levels/alpha/theta. When a person is hypnotised their brain waves don't normally alter. These days I am using alpha/theta reflex-action count-down protocols but am starting to wonder if hypnosis mightn't be more effective. The trick to killing pain at a dentist is in visualising ice packed into your mouth. Anyone can change their body-part temperature in this manner with practice...and belief. Jim > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 02:33:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA24249; Sun, 19 May 1996 02:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605190807.SAA00663@clothes> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re:Email Bounced X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Got an email from Rob Polley off this list....but can't reply...email address bounces. Jim Francis Australian lateral Concepts From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 02:34:32 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA24351; Sun, 19 May 1996 02:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605190844.DAA11836@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Al Greene's experiment and Re: Ball Lightning X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > >Art Bell has alot lot of whacko's on his radio show but a gentleman who is >really into radio named Al Greene (sp?) was on a while back talking about >a "cold fusion" experiment that required two nickels, 30 volts, and sodium >bicarbonate in solution. Has anyone done this one? Is there anything in >print on this one? Greene has some ham mag called "73" and some mag called >"cold fusion." He was supposed to have started PC magazine. > > That's Wayne Green (W2NSD/1) who publishes "73" magazine for amateur radio and also started BYTE magazine back in the 70's if I remember correctly. A brilliant guy but a little eccentric; he's into a lot of stuff. He's probably at the Dayton Hamvention right now (largest ham radio convention in the world) where he usually does a program. Unfortunately, I have to miss it this year. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 09:02:27 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA26296; Sun, 19 May 1996 08:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 08:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <17@startech.win.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: scott@startech.win.net (J. Scott Wetherell) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: DOUBLE HELIX X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A Dear Bill, I am interested in any other listserv.s that you may have or reccommend. I am interested in anything you may call New Science/ New Energies. It was interesting to see your name in a book I read recenlty, since I first saw your name on the internet. Scott From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 15:13:25 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02463; Sun, 19 May 1996 15:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 15:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Electromagnetic (MECHANICAL) Energy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Norm Silliman wrote the following: >As a friend once told me, "Bearden blows smoke". Bearden and Newman >share a lot in common. An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental >proof and voila some profound truth about Nature. And everyone else >had damn well better believe it. Great care must be taken not to be >Newmanized. Dear Norm: Thanks for your opinion. While you're certainly entitled to it [and while I would most certainly defend your RIGHT to your opinion] --- there are many who would totally disagree with your opinion about Joseph Newman. His "wild theory" as you choose to call it is based upon 30+ years of observations and conclusions regarding electromagnetism. To you it may seem "wild" -- but then, the equivalent was once said of Galileo and many other innovators throughout history. The ultimate experimental proof are the operational prototypes developed by Joseph Nemwan. Chapter 2 (Gyroscopic Actions) of Joe's book may well be one of his fundamental contributions to science: the explicit integration of observable electrical phenomena (between a magnetic field and a conductor) AND the actions of a gyroscope. >From this Chapter there are at least two conclusions which can be reached: 1) There is an "particle" within a magnetic field that is moving at a tremendous speed, e.g., "c". 2) This entity interacts with a conductor EXACTLY as does the mechanical actions of a gyroscope. CONCLUSION reached by Joseph Newman: There exists within a magnetic field a "field" of gyroscopic particles with specific, mechanical characteristics which can be understood and whose actions can be predicted. EXTRAPOLATION by Joseph Newman: If this conclusion is correct, then the mechanical postulations that he has made in the later chapters of his book would indeed follow from his basic connection between "magnetism" and mechanical (gyroscopic) actions. And in turn, ALL of his conclusions and extrapolations are BASED UPON THE FUNDAMENTAL POSITION that the: 1) "LINES OF FORCE" ARE INDEED "PHYSICAL", that 2) ALL ENERGY **IS** THE SAME AS MECHANICAL ENERGY, and that 3) THE ENERGY IN ELECTROMAGNETIC PHENOMENA **IS** MECHANICAL ENERGY. Sincerely, Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684 New Orleans, Louisiana 70156-7684 Joseph Newman can be reached at: (601) 947-7147 Route 1, Box 52 Lucedale, Mississippi 39452 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 16:40:30 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA20442; Sun, 19 May 1996 16:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 16:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605192318.QAA11798@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Twisters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Is it still illegal to work on Reich's theories? I heard that there is a museum in Maine about Reich and features it his inventions. I understand that you need a large body of water to ground a cloudbuster. Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 12:50 PM 5/18/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Has anyone tried pointing a Reich cloudbuster at a tornado? >> >>Regards; >>Dennis C. Lee >No ... interesting thought! I've had my opportunities! (I am an ESDA >tornado spotter, and we had one pass through Urbana IL a few weeks ago, >passed about 1 1/2 miles south of my house while I was out "spotting" it.) > >Where can I find info on how to build a cloudbuster? I noticed that >wasn't on the Orgonomy homepage. > >Zack >w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 17:49:50 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA29838; Sun, 19 May 1996 17:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 17:45:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <01BB45BB.DAAEA4A0@ip72-98.ts.indy.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Randy Smith To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Neurophone X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I am looking for information on G. Pat Flanagan Neurophone as talked = about in his book Pyramid Power Copyright 1973 Printed by De Vorss & Co. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 19 23:15:29 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA23060; Sun, 19 May 1996 23:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 23:09:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605200604.XAA29258@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Neurophone X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Randy; The Keelynet BBS has a few Flanagan files. I think Rex Research has an infopack on Flanagan also. Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 05:45 PM 5/19/96 -0700, you wrote: >I am looking for information on G. Pat Flanagan Neurophone as talked = >about in his book Pyramid Power Copyright 1973 Printed by De Vorss & Co. > > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 20 05:20:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA25735; Mon, 20 May 1996 05:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 05:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605201156.VAA10316@clothes.peg.apc.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: jfrancis@peg.apc.org (Jim Francis) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: N. Kozyrev X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: A little time back somebody on this list was asking where info on N. Kozyrev and his time distortion measurements could be found. I followed this up in Russia and just got the following email. I would like to get copies of these reports...does anyone know the procedure for this? I've got a short article about this Russian Astrophysicist on my mall. Jim Francis Australian lateral Concepts http://malls.com/australian-lateral-thinking >To: jfrancis@peg.apc.org >References: <199604290414.OAA16526@peg.apc.org> >Organization: Institute for math. and mech., St.Petersburg University >From: "Lavrentii S. Shikhobalov" >Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:32:38 +0400 (MSD) >Lines: 30 > > Dear Dr. Jim Francis! > > The articles about N.A.Kozyrev's ideas (in English) are: > >01. Kozyrev N. A. Possibility of experimental study of > the properties of time // Joint Publications Research > Service / Department of Commerce (USA). - 1968. - > JPRS 45238. - 2 May. - 29 p. >02. Kozyrev N. A. On the possibility of experimental > investigation of the properties of time // Time in > Science and Philosophy. - Prague: Academia, 1971. - > P. 111 - 132. > >03. World Who's Who in Science. A biographical dictionary > of notable scientists from antiquity to the present. - > Chicago: Marquis-Who's Who, Inc., 1968. - P. 965. >04. Minor Planet Circulars / The International Astronomical > Union. - 1986. - N 10546. - 26 March. - 1 p. >05. Hayasaka H., Takeuchi S. Anomalous weight reduction on > a gyroscope's right rotations around the vertical axis > on the Earth // Physical Review Letters. - 1989. - > Vol. 63, N 25. - P. 2701 - 2704. >06. Doel R. E. Evaluating soviet lunar science in cold war > America // OSIRIS. - 2nd ser. - 1992. - Vol. 7. - > P. 238 - 264. >07. Korotayev S. M. A formal definition of causality and > Kozyrev's axioms // Galilean Electrodynamics. - 1993. - > Vol. 4, N 5. - P. 86 - 88. > > Good wishes. Yours L.S.Shikhobalov 20.05.96 > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 20 12:33:21 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA15068; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <20768@oroboros.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: CRSM@oroboros.demon.co.uk (Chris Morriss) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Twisters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I thought that the lower ends of the pipes had to be immersed in running water. I don't know where I found that, it might be in the book written by Reich's son. -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 20 12:36:24 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA15376; Mon, 20 May 1996 12:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Mr. Finsrud's PMM (Perpetual Motion Machine) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: http://www.keelynet.com/finsrud.htm Mr. Finsrud's PMM (Perpetual Motion Machine) This is a very short notice on the PMM of Mr. Reidar Finsrud in Skaarer, Norway. Mr. Finsrud is a painter and makes sculptures, an artist. He started the design of his PMM, or as he says, his 'moving sculpture' or 'sculpture' twelve (12) years ago...The whole machine is placed inside a glass mount, to prevent visitors who view the machine in the gallery from touching it. All the parts and the internal workings of the device are clearly visible in a video made by the Norwegian channel 2 (TV 2). This is well below Dr. Hal Puthoffs' '1 Watt Challenge'. BUT, the total ENERGY that the device has already produced is Etot = P * t , taking t = 1 month, Etot = 0.16 * 2 592 000 s = 414 720 Joules. This is a VERY large amount of energy. There will be more info available in the near future. We will try to get the exact design description from the inventor. I have a rather poor VHS copy of the program as it was broadcast on Nowegian TV Channel 2. With a little help I could convert it to the American video standard. From : KeelyNet BBS DataLine : (214) 324-3501. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 20 14:45:48 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA09913; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31A0CC45.3A2A@hol.gr> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Zachary Fridman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: 15 days ago I received from ITS a booklet concerning the Perreault device. I retained the order specifics from the file coldfiss.txt found on the William Beaty site. The booklet was entitled " Introduction to Radiant Energy" compiled by Bruce Perreault at the price of 29 USD. My purpose for obtaining this booklet was to acquire enough schematics and information to attempt the construction of the Perreault device. Unfortunately the booklet consisted of 30 single sided large font pages not including the covers and contained the following: a) 12 pages of a historical review taken from the book "The Sea of Energy in Which The Earth Flows", with extremely few technical notes. b) 10 pages of schematics and text from patent No. 3,152,254 dated Oct. 6, 1964 by P.E. Ohmart , entitled "Method and Apparatus for Converting Ionic Energy to Electrical Energy" c) 3 pages with information (???) for the construction of the Perreault device. One of them consists of unnecessary information for the Ionizer, the other consists of a the electronic schematic of the Ionizer and the last page a simple drawing of the Radiant Energy Tube dated Dec. 7, 1995 version 2. d) Oh yes, I forgot to mention that there is also a page listing suppliers. Having this in mind I submit the following questions. 1) The information found in the file coldfiss.txt refers to a 3/4" booklet priced $39 containing many important details for various related subjects. This information was not found in the booklet (dated Feb. 28, 1996) that I received. Is it possible that this was a cheaper edition? 2) The author Mr. Perreault in the introduction states that the booklet contains all the necessary information for the construction of the device. Unfortunately my I.Q. is << than Tesla's or Moray's and the laconic information I found wasn't much help in the construction of the above device. 3) Is it possible that Mr. Perreault has struck a deal with Mr Reed Huish and no longer gives out know-how. If so then why does he persist on selling it? 4) Is this booklet (which contains information so easily found free of charge on the Internet) actually worth 29 American Dollars ?? Concluding I wish to acquire Max Ginnis' (President of ITS) e-mail address in order to forward him the above letter. I believe that ITS shares some responsibility in such transactions and this jeopardizes the reputation of such an organization. Since the price of the booklet disturbed me, I would appreciate if Mr Evan Soule (if he follows the list) sent me a copy of the latest book by Mr. Newmann (POD). To my knowledge Mr Newmann has made available a book containing THEORY and CONSTRUCTION details , priced at $70 - $75. Mr. Newmann is also the constructor of such a device which he has successfully demonstrated PUBLIKLY and thus is regarded by me as a respected innovator, despite the fact that his work is questioned by some. My e-mail: zaxfri@hol.gr Zachary C. Fridman From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 20 14:42:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10106; Mon, 20 May 1996 14:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605202128.RAA00569@dns.enter.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "David Rosignoli" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Neurophone X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > I am looking for information on G. Pat Flanagan Neurophone as talked = > about in his book Pyramid Power Copyright 1973 Printed by De Vorss & Co. There is a patent on his invention. I believe that if you get the Infolios from Rex Research you will get a good description of his invention. Supposedly, the original device used steel scouring pads and an AM transmitter to send messages to an individual. The person who was surrounded by the scouring pads (connected to the AM transmitter, of course) would "hear" whatever was sent over AM. I suppose it had something to do with stimulating the auditory nerves. I believe that he later refined the process quite considerably, using much more advanced electronics. I think he was later interested in communicating with dolphins. (This is all from memory. I don't remember where I read it, but I do believe that it is correct.) However, if you do find out where to get more current information on his neurophone, as well as Flanagan's whereabouts and happenings, I would be most interested in hearing about it. Thanks. David Rosignoli drdaveor@enter.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 20 18:54:58 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA29693; Mon, 20 May 1996 18:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 18:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TV Program (FOX) on Remote Viewing X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: TV Program (FOX) on Remote Viewing There was a TV Program last Friday night (or very early Saturday morning) on FOX that was a great review of the remote viewing process. I want to get a copy of that program. If you taped it, please let me know. We will work out a trade or something. Thank you! From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 04:08:38 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA27396; Tue, 21 May 1996 04:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 04:04:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Neurophone X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: In article <199605202128.RAA00569@dns.enter.net>, you wrote: >> I am looking for information on G. Pat Flanagan Neurophone as talked = >> about in his book Pyramid Power Copyright 1973 Printed by De Vorss & Co. >However, if you do find out where to get more current information >on his neurophone, as well as Flanagan's whereabouts and happenings, >I would be most interested in hearing about it. You'll find upto date answers to all those questions at my WEB site: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 06:41:59 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA16450; Tue, 21 May 1996 06:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 06:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Alexander Lotoski To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Electromagnetic (MECHANICAL) Energy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Thanks for your opinion. While you're certainly entitled to it [and while I > would most certainly defend your RIGHT to your opinion] --- there are many > who would totally disagree with your opinion about Joseph Newman. His "wild > theory" as you choose to call it is based upon 30+ years of observations > and conclusions regarding electromagnetism. To you it may seem "wild" -- > but then, the equivalent was once said of Galileo and many other innovators > throughout history. The ultimate experimental proof are the operational > prototypes developed by Joseph Nemwan. > > Chapter 2 (Gyroscopic Actions) of Joe's book may well be one of his Could you please post information on this book? Ie. ISBN, title etc.. Thanx John From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 08:15:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA03332; Tue, 21 May 1996 08:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 08:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605211336.GAA29231@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Chuck Humphrey" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ABOUT PERREAULT: I posted some of my feeling about this earlier, but I felt it might be helpful to others who are exploring this technology to learn what I have run into. I have answered specific areas of the following post. > 15 days ago I received from ITS a booklet concerning the Perreault > device. I retained the order specifics from the file coldfiss.txt found on the > William Beaty site. The booklet was entitled " Introduction to Radiant Energy" > compiled by Bruce Perreault at the price of 29 USD. My purpose for obtaining this > booklet was to acquire enough schematics and information to attempt the > construction of the Perreault device. > Unfortunately the booklet consisted of 30 single sided large font pages not > including the covers and contained the following: > a) 12 pages of a historical review taken from the book "The Sea of Energy in Which > The Earth Flows", with extremely few technical notes. > b) 10 pages of schematics and text from patent No. 3,152,254 dated Oct. 6, 1964 by > P.E. Ohmart , entitled "Method and Apparatus for Converting Ionic Energy to > Electrical Energy" > c) 3 pages with information (???) for the construction of the Perreault device. One > of them consists of unnecessary information for the Ionizer, the other consists of > a the electronic schematic of the Ionizer and the last page a simple drawing of the > Radiant Energy Tube dated Dec. 7, 1995 version 2. > d) Oh yes, I forgot to mention that there is also a page listing suppliers. > > > Having this in mind I submit the following questions. > 1) The information found in the file coldfiss.txt refers to a 3/4" booklet priced > $39 containing many important details for various related subjects. This > information was not found in the booklet (dated Feb. 28, 1996) that I received. Is > it possible that this was a cheaper edition? I doubt it.. I got the same material and also felt it was a big rip off.. The diagrams in the book are filled with inaccuracies -- the values of the components are wrong but more importantly the entire circuitry was NEVER BUILT.. The tube consists of materials Mr perrault NEVER actually made work.. ( I learned this in a phone conversation with Mr. Perrault himself.. The actual construction of a device that did work was done using materials not mentioned in the book he sold.) > 2) The author Mr. Perreault in the introduction states that the booklet contains > all the necessary information for the construction of the device. Again- the device shown in the book had never been tested.. I built that device and it DOES NOT WORK. > Unfortunately my > I.Q. is << than Tesla's or Moray's and the laconic information I found wasn't much > help in the construction of the above device. > 3) Is it possible that Mr. Perreault has struck a deal with Mr Reed Huish and no > longer gives out know-how. If so then why does he persist on selling it? He did in fact strike a deal and in that deal he could not disclose the real device ( the one that worked). > 4) Is this booklet (which contains information so easily found free of charge on > the Internet) actually worth 29 American Dollars ?? NO. it's worthless, and worse than worthless in that it send you on a wild goose chase that is costly and frustrating. > > Concluding I wish to acquire Max Ginnis' (President of ITS) e-mail address in > order to forward him the above letter. > I believe that ITS shares some responsibility in such transactions and this > jeopardizes the reputation of such an organization. Here here! > > Since the price of the booklet disturbed me, I would appreciate if Mr Evan Soule > (if he follows the list) sent me a copy of the latest book by Mr. Newmann (POD). To > my knowledge Mr Newmann has made available a book containing THEORY and > CONSTRUCTION details , priced at $70 - $75. > Mr. Newmann is also the constructor of such a device which he has successfully > demonstrated PUBLIKLY and thus is regarded by me as a respected innovator, despite > the fact that his work is questioned by some. I paid the $75 for that book also: Same results... not enough information to construct a WORKING device. Chuck *-------------------------------------------------------------* * Get Unlimited - uncensored - Internet on a Stick * * full PPP - local phone access account for $15/mo * * download a copy for free * * http://www.unltd.com/next-gen/gallery.html * * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * email:next-gen@ix.netcom.com * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 15:58:14 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA04767; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605211903.MAA05554@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Dennis C. Lee" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Twisters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Chris; Joseph Cater's book "The Awesome Lifeforce" states that a body of water can be used up to the point where the water is saturated by energy extracted from the clouds. Running water would be better because a continuous flow would avoid saturation. I guess an important area to question would be the implications of the nature of water when activated by this cloud energy. Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 12:25 PM 5/20/96 -0700, you wrote: >I thought that the lower ends of the pipes had to be immersed in running >water. >I don't know where I found that, it might be in the book written by >Reich's son. >-- >Chris Morriss > > From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 15:59:23 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA04969; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605211904.MAA20755@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: drted@ix.netcom.com (Ted Viens ) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Electromagnetic (MECHANICAL) Energy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Evan wrote: > >>> >>>Norm: >>> >>>>Dear Evan, >>>> >>>>You wrote: >>>>>Norm Silliman wrote the following: >> >>I thought this discussion was being moved off the freenrg-l ?! >> >>Zack >>w9sz@prairienet.org > >Dear Zack: > >Apparently Norm brought the subject up again on freenrg-l. > >Best wishes > >Evan >josephnewman@earthlink.net > > > First, let me thank Evan for being the source of info from the Newman group. The Newman discussion is more valuable becuase of his contributions. However... Evan, if I remember correctly, the list-owner here did make a request for moving the Newman discussion to another maillist that he manages. I could understand new and casual list users being unaware or neglectful of this, but I cannot understand your ignoring of it. I certainly understand your desire not to leave "misinformation" just hanging out here. Would you consider making a brief response to these errant postings, addressing the main points and then inviting the poster to move the thread to the other maillist? This would assure us that you are willing to participate responsibly rather than "cleverly using any article to promulgate the Newman position in defiance of the wishes of the list-owner and users." (A possible misinterpretation of your actions here.) Thanks... -- Bye... Ted.. Deep in the Heart of the Armpits of Houston, Texas... From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 21:51:11 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA18207; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <960521193656_118331475@emout16.mail.aol.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: NLSilliman@aol.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Giving Mr. Soule' credit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Ted is right, we owe a lot to Mr. Soule' and I will be the first. Mr. Soule', I think that everyone owes you a round of applause for your vigilance in protecting the people on the list from errors. It is really important for someone to clarify the discussion for us. You are very astute to notice the lack of cognitive and problem solving skills among the member of the list. I hope the other readers appreciate your willingness to take time out of you busy day to be a full time policeman. I assume that Mr. Newman is willing to continue to pay you even while you are providing us this service during business hours. It is honorable of you to offer to use your lawyering talents to defend my right to my opinions. I find that very gratifying. And I personally appreciate your sense of humor, changing the subject to a lighter vain when the discussion gets too sticky. Norm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 21:52:37 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA19879; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: John Fields To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Einstein Speaks (and Faraday would smile) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 17 May 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > >On Thu, 16 May 1996, Evan Soule wrote: > > > >> Quote for the day, submitted by Ralph Hartwell (ralph.hartwell@emachine.com): > >> > >> "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are > >> not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer > >> to reality." > >> -Albert Einstein 1921 > >> > >> ____________________________ > >> Evan Soule > >> josephnewman@earthlink.net > >> (504) 524-3063 > >> > >> P.O. Box 57684 > >> New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684 > >> > >> > >> > >I would suggest that as the laws of mathematics become more clearly > >evident they will be be better able to describe reality with greater > >certainty. > > > >We are now starting to see patterns in chaos, can deal with structures > >at subatomic levels, and think that quarks have parts. > >Not bad for 75 years. > > Starship > >----------- > Yes, we have come a long way since 1 + 1 = 2.....although, in historical > retrospect it is amazing what the computer has done with just "1" and > "0"...let us hope that progress will continue via creativity, curiosity, > independent initiative, and imagination. Thanks in part to the timely > struggles of Galois, the sensitivity to mechanics of Maxwell, and the > essential creativity of Noether, mathematics may indeed "asymptotically" > approach a description of reality with both precision AND accuracy. > > Operationally-speaking, mathematics (as well as mechanical models) is an > important tool of humanity -- especially of our most creative minds. And it > is such creative minds which will bring us closer to the stars. Perhaps --- > in an allegoric and even poetic sense --- such creativity (and, most > importantly, the Archimedean leverage it can represent) is a > "bio-intellectual" form of "free energy." > > As one 20th century genius stated, "The idea that humanity should not > perish for the sake of her great creative minds was always present to me, > and I feel it as the only argument in favor of its conservation." > > Evan Soule' > josephnewman@earthlink.net > I agree with your first argument, which is correct as far as decimal arithmetic goes. As to your second point, you should be aware that "the computer" can do nothing until it is instructed to act, and therefore has no concept of what a "1" or a "0" is until it has been instructed as to the difference. In a binary system of arithmetic only two symbols are allowed to be used in computations. We have chosen to use "1" and "0", but could just as easily have chosen "light" and "dark", "left" and "right", "on" and "off", or (as we seem to prefer) any diametrically opposed set of symbols. Since we have evolved with ten fingers and ten toes (generally) we tend to think of arithmetic using ten symbols, but our heritage lies in the division between night and day since the beginning of our time, and we still tend to gravitate towards dichotomy, which shapes our emotions. Is it right or is it wrong? Is it black or is it white? Is it good or is it bad? Is it day or is it night? Is it true or is it false? This division has evolved into our system of binary, or Boolean logic and has been codified for two input variables (A and B) and one output (C) as follows: 1. The "OR" function. ( If either A or B = 1 then C = 1) A B C 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 2. The "AND" function. (If both A and B = 1 then C = 1) A B C 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 3. The "EXCLUSIVE OR" function (If A does not equal B, then C = 1) A B C 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 4. In terms of one input variable and one output, (the "INVERTER") the truth table is: A B 0 1 1 0 >From these relationships, all of binary arithmetic flows. Of all the above, the simple inverter is the most important, since without it none of the others could exist. The "EXCLUSIVE OR"is not properly considered a "basic" Boolean form since it can be constructed from Boolean primitives, but is included here for your edification. Starship ----------- From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 22:03:57 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA23255; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 21:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605220416.VAA01496@desiree.teleport.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: mrm@teleport.com (Michael) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bruce Perrault X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Just a comment re. Bruce Perrault cold fission Machine. Talked to Mr. McGinnis at the Telsa Society today to order some books. I wouldn't put Mr. Perrault down right away, he is going to be at the Telsa societys conference and will demonstrate his device. Further more I understand from Mr. McGinnis, he has gotten funding for this device. Better wait and see him demonstrate this device at the convention in July, and then make a judgement. Good luck in your endeavors. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 21 23:06:20 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA05078; Tue, 21 May 1996 22:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 22:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fax received re ALLIANCE FOR AMERICAN INNOVATION X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: To all individuals who value independent innovation: I want to share with you the following which I received today via fax --- FROM: ALLIANCE FOR AMERICAN INNOVATION 1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W., Suite 1200, Washington, D.C. 20036-4101 Phone: (202) 785-3072 * Fax: (202) 467-5591 ************************** EXTREMELY URGENT ********************************* ***************************************************************************** May 16, 1996 Dear Affiliates and Friends: This is the most important letter you will receive from the Alliance. For nearly two years we have been fighting a number of bills which taken together could destroy America's patent system as we know it. What the opposition is doing is PUTTING TOGETHER ALL THE BILLS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO DESTROY OUR PATENT SYSTEM INTO ONE BILL: H.R. 3460. It should be called the "steal American technology act." They are marking up this bill in committee TODAY. There plan is to get it on the floor of the House by Thursday of next week. By pushing this huge, complex Bill through fast, no Congressman will really have time to study in dept the devastating implications of this legislation. THIS WILL BE THE END OF AMERICA'S GREAT PATENT SYSTEM. If this happens, it will also destroy our job base and our ability to create new jobs. Vast sums of money are being spent by our opponents. We can't match them. BUT, you and I can still save this situation. We desperately need you to call your Congressperson and tell them to vote NO on H.R. 3460 titled "To Establish the Patent Trademark Office as a Government Corporation and For Other Purposes." There are only a few days before this horrible bill hits the floor. We have learned that Congress really listens to their constituents. YOU can make the difference. PLEASE HELP US! Sincerely Steve Michael Shore President P.S. Please contact your media and the talk shows offering to speak. Ask your friends and listeners to join us in this battle. Give out our number: 1-800-308-6933. [Please pass this email across the WWW!!!] CONTACT CONGRESS!!! ________________________________________________________________________ The following was written by the ALLIANCE and accompanied the above fax: ________________________________________________________________________ H.R. 3460 WILL DESTROY THE AMERICAN PATENT SYSTEM The Intellectual Property Subcommittee has bundled together a series of bills which will destroy the job creation base in the United States. Do you want to see American jobs destroyed? H.R. 3460 destroys the American patent system. It is an adoption of the Japanese system which is the opposite of the United States system. The American patent system was created in the second session of the first Congress to promote the arts and sciences. It was and is intended to create jobs for Americans. In this global economy, the multinationals and foreign interests are attacking the patent system and the independent inventor because it is the cheapest and quickest way to obtain technology. The recent book, "Patent Wars: The Battle To Own The World's Technology," by Fred Warshofsky, best describes the reason for the current legislative struggle in the 104th Congress about intellectual property. It states, "In the war for global economic dominance, the fiercest battles today are over intellectual property. Where nations once fought for control of trade routes and raw materials, they now fight for exclusive rights to ideas, innovations, and inventions." Intellectual property today accounts for well over 50 percent of all American exports and 99 percent of our manufacturing base. The United States remains a major player in the world community because we have the largest body of intellectual property in the world. This is why the United States economy will be harmed by this Bill H.R. 3460 which includes: * H.R. 1732, the "Patent Reexamination Reform Act of 1995," is a hunting license for giant and foreign companies to bring their full legal resources to bear against any individual inventor. This challenge to an issued patent circumvents the Federal court system. The company behind the reexamination hires and attorney who is named as the examination Requester. After an examination is completed, another, and another, and another, request can be filed. A Requestor is allowed to participate in the reexamination. A patent cannot be realistically enforced while a reexamination is in progress. * H.R. 1733, the "Patent Application Publication Act of 1995," is the 18 months pre-grant publication of patent information. It will prematurely disclose an American invention to foreign countries so they can begin production of the invention BEFORE its inventor has any protection. The 18 months pre-grant publication violates the original intent of our founding fathers to grant an applicant a patent in exchange for full disclosure. The disclosure at 18 months has NO patent protection. This creates a whole new collection and category of prior art (including information on patent applications never issued) which then can be used in filing arguments in patent opposition. * H.R. 2235, prior user rights, will wipe out American inventors and will lead to a first-to-file system which means first to the patent office --- NOT FIRST TO INVENT which is contrary to the Constitutional protection for inventors. * With H.R. 1659, the Patent Office, which is a "core federal function," is being "corporatized" or privatized. The company will have a CEO with no substantive review of his actions. The Patent Office is not in competition with a private company. It is the sole source of "granting" and not "selling" patents. The Patent Office performs a quasi-judicial function in making a legal determination of whether an application contains subject matter that is new, non-obvious, and fully disclosing. We must not corporatize the best technical teaching library in the world, the Patent Office. If we corporatize, foreign countries and multi-nationals will gain control of our patent system. Steven Michael Shore President Alliance for American Innovation 1100 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1200 Washington, D.C. 20036-4101 (202) 785-3072 / Fax: (202) 467-5591 1-800-308-6933 _____________________________________________ Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 22 19:29:56 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA14105; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605221250.HAA15091@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Einstein Speaks (and Faraday would smile) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > >Aside from the fact that many have likened the human brain to a computer >(or there are some who would rather envision the computer as a reflection >of our brains), the computer does "do" (i.e., perform) with "1's" and "0's" >utilizing, of course, "input" --- in the form and substance of both >hardware and software --- from the creative human brain. Epistemologically, >there are some who even view the programming function as an operational >"tool" for acquiring absolute subjective knowledge. > >Best wishes, > >Evan Soule' >josephnewman@earthlink.net But the MIND is not the BRAIN, and the MIND is NOTHING like a computer! See GODEL, ESCHER, BACH: AN ETERNAL GOLDEN BRAID by Douglas R. Hofstadter. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 22 19:32:04 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA14831; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605220811.IAA07923@ns1.indirect.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Reed Huish To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: More F/E Stuff X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 21 May 1996, "Chuck Humphrey" wrote: >> Unfortunately my >> I.Q. is << than Tesla's or Moray's and the laconic information I found wasn't much >> help in the construction of the above device. >> 3) Is it possible that Mr. Perreault has struck a deal with Mr Reed Huish and no >> longer gives out know-how. If so then why does he persist on selling it? > >He did in fact strike a deal and in that deal he could not disclose >the real device ( the one that worked). > Allow me to put in my 2 cents worth. Yes, I have an agreement with Mr. Perreault. Bruce began providing books to McGinnis (ITS) before our agreement was in place. Bruce really hasn't made any money from the ITS -- they take all the profits from book sales. I would rather McGinnis not distribute the book, but he keeps hiping Bruce to increase book sales. Bruce will probably be at the ITS July conference, but I doubt he'll show a working machine. Same problem here with the books ITS is selling. Patents are not yet in place so a full disclosure can't be made public. Don't buy a ticket to the conference just to see Bruce's prototype. McGinnis was never told that a prototype would be taken to the show. He's just trying to boost ticket sales. - Reed From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 22 19:33:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15178; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <18@startech.win.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: scott@startech.win.net (J. Scott Wetherell) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: TV Program (FOX) on Remote Viewing X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: pgb@padrak.com>pgb@padrak.com >TV Program (FOX) on Remote Viewing > >There was a TV Program last Friday night (or very early Saturday morning) >on FOX that was a great review of the remote viewing process. > I happened to get that. It was on Sightings about a week+ ago. Concerning a high ranking military officer trained to do remote viewing. Let me know how to proceed J Scott From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 22 19:39:40 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15651; Wed, 22 May 1996 19:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960522192816.00677fe0@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Elizabeth Rose To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: At 12:18 AM 5/19/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi, I have been watching this discusion with interest for about a >>week now. >> >>I think it is possible to do some real solid research work in this >>area through the study of psychokinesis. I discovered that I had >>some ability in this area 25 years ago and have been working to >>develop this skill to the point where I could produce consistant >>results under labratory conditions. I believe I have reached that >>point now. >> >>If anyone knows of individuals or institutions doing valid research >>in this field who could use a "gifted subject" please let me know. >> >>-Rob What sort of results are you able to produce and how did you develop your ability? Elizabeth Rose From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 23 04:07:57 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA14122; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 04:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Einstein Speaks (and Faraday would smile) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >> >> >>Aside from the fact that many have likened the human brain to a computer >>(or there are some who would rather envision the computer as a reflection >>of our brains), the computer does "do" (i.e., perform) with "1's" and "0's" >>utilizing, of course, "input" --- in the form and substance of both >>hardware and software --- from the creative human brain. Epistemologically, >>there are some who even view the programming function as an operational >>"tool" for acquiring absolute subjective knowledge. >> >>Best wishes, >> >>Evan Soule' >>josephnewman@earthlink.net > >But the MIND is not the BRAIN, and the MIND is NOTHING like a computer! > >See GODEL, ESCHER, BACH: AN ETERNAL GOLDEN BRAID by Douglas R. Hofstadter. > >Zack >w9sz@prairienet.org One would hope that when biological science becomes better integrated with physical science [as well as the volitional/sub-volitional sciences] that a more operationally explicit distinction can be made between the "brain" and "mind." One definition of "mind" that could be considered is: "the organized conscious and unconscious adaptive activity of an organism." Perhaps in one implicit and analogous sense, the "brain" could be considered the "hardware" and the function of the "mind" the "software." Best regards, Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 23 04:09:22 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA14374; Thu, 23 May 1996 04:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 04:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605230545.WAA26650@mail.eskimo.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Brian To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Energy Depression X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks! The quest for free energy: when do you know when to give up? The most I have found on this journey is growing segment of charlatans who prey upon the faith and naivity of energy pilgrams. Is it possible that ther is no "free energy" ? Is "free energy" akin to a "free lunch" ? After many years of looking for this over-unicorn I think should revise my expectations. I no longer think there is free-energy waiting to be tapped by someone tinkering around in their garage. However, the discovery of a new energy source is certainly plausible. You can't get something for nothing, but you can turn one thing into something else. Surely their has to be some alternative source of energy that we have yet to exploit. It's been only a few decades since the discvery of nuclear fission, yet no other concentrated energy source has been utilized since. Fusion sounds promising, but no reactors have gone online yet. Is this the extent of man's understanding of the universe? Most articles that I have read by "famous" scientists would have us believe that they have got physical reality ALMOST figured out. If current science really knows so much about reality then why are most of our methods of locomotion and energy production dependant upon the oxidation of hydrocarbons? I suppose we are all so ready to break our hydrocarbon bonds (pun) that we tend to embrace any self-proclaimed energy savior. After a time,however, the "savior" fails to deliver the miracle and (after milking all the fame/fortune from the experience) moves on the graze elsewhere. The sheep are left without direction and look for someone else to lead them. This cycle has repeated for DECADES!!! As I straggling member of the flock I think it's time for me to look to fellow sheep than to flashy shepherds. I think most of us here would like to see progress in the struggle for free energy. Why look to cosmic hooziwhatsits when there are known things here on Earth! To relieve some of the immediate energy troubles, there is solar and wind generating equipment, alcohol and hydrogen to burn, etc. that can be used TODAY!!! For things a little farther out there is fusion and other things but at least these are within the rational ball-park. I do not claim to know all that is available, but at least these are things WHICH CAN BE REPEATABLY DEMON- STRATED TO ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO SEE IT. So, what do you say, guys (and gals!) ? HOW ABOUT A THREAD ON RATIONAL TECHNOLOGY? The far out theories are interesting, but I just bought an very thirsty '81 Cadillac that needs cheaper energy. How about a high milage carb thread? I'm sure you understand what I'v been rambling on about, and I hope I haven't offended anyone. I would just like to work with others on a project which will at least have a good chance of generating beneficial results. Cheap electricity, high gas milage, lost cost heating. Surely we can have a practical sidebar??? Sincerely, Brian QUANTUM@univscvm.csd.scarolina.edu From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 23 13:19:15 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA20415; Thu, 23 May 1996 13:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 13:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Zachary DeAquila To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Energy Depression X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >From: Brian >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Energy Depression >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > > [much deleted] > > To relieve some of the immediate energy troubles, there is solar and wind >generating equipment, alcohol and hydrogen to burn, etc. that can be used >TODAY!!! For things a little farther out there is fusion and other things but >at least these are within the rational ball-park. I do not claim to know all >that is available, but at least these are things WHICH CAN BE REPEATABLY DEMON- >STRATED TO ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO SEE IT. > So, what do you say, guys (and gals!) ? HOW ABOUT A THREAD ON RATIONAL >TECHNOLOGY? The far out theories are interesting, but I just bought an very >thirsty '81 Cadillac that needs cheaper energy. How about a high milage carb >thread? > I'm sure you understand what I'v been rambling on about, and I hope I >haven't offended anyone. I would just like to work with others on a project >which will at least have a good chance of generating beneficial results. >Cheap electricity, high gas milage, lost cost heating. Surely we can have a >practical sidebar??? Brian, There are indeed more-efficient models of current technology that would be of great benefit to put into common use. Some I can think of: Tesla turbine engines (my personal favorite, for an almost complete description of a gas-powered tesla turbine engine, read Tesla's patent # 1,329,559) hybrid gas/electric cars (gasoline generator powering a car with an electric powered drive train - the generator floats the batteries, charging them when the car is stopped/slow, and helps power the car otherwise) gas-vapor carbeurators (from what I've heard, this is how the the high-milage carbs mostly work - I've also heard of injecting a bit of water into the mix to also be vaporized in the explosion and help generate more pressure in the cylinder) burning alcohol (It's common knowledge this will work - and doesn't it burn cleaner than gasoline? ) teflon-coated razorblades (uh, okay, it's not an energy source, but it's an example of better technology that is no longer sold comercially because it was *too* good (blades lasted longer, needed less shaving cream... and BIC's sales dropped when they started selling them)) I'm just a young pseudo engineer without large enough resources to try and do anything about the situation... but I'll happily talk about 'em! --Zachary From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 23 23:52:01 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA19830; Thu, 23 May 1996 23:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 23:46:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4C66A90FB7@enterprise.cia.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Rob Polley" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Attn Elizabeth Rose X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:29:35 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: Elizabeth Rose > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Double helix, MWO, etc. > At 12:18 AM 5/19/96 -0700, you wrote: > > >>Hi, I have been watching this discusion with interest for about a > >>week now. > >> > >>I think it is possible to do some real solid research work in this > >>area through the study of psychokinesis. I discovered that I had > >>some ability in this area 25 years ago and have been working to > >>develop this skill to the point where I could produce consistant > >>results under labratory conditions. I believe I have reached that > >>point now. > >> > >>If anyone knows of individuals or institutions doing valid research > >>in this field who could use a "gifted subject" please let me know. > >> > >>-Rob > > What sort of results are you able to produce and how did you develop your > ability? > > Elizabeth Rose > Hi Elizabeth, I work with a low mass fixture on a frictionless pivot and practice by spinning the fixture. Results very depending on a number of conditions, on a good day I can start it, stop it, speed it up, slow it down, move it in increments of a few degrees, that sort of thing. I became aware of the native ability about 25 years ago and started working to try and understand what was going on about 15 years ago. I think there are aspects to psychokinesis that may relate to free energy devices, but I think the introduction of a "psychic factor" is detrimental to an already controversial field. If you wish more information feel free to contact me at polleyr@cia.com From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 24 00:13:13 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA21602; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605232202.PAA07300@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Cheapest CF data gathering around! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: From: Mark Hugo, Northern States Power Sr. Eng. Subject: Cheapest CF data gathering around! - Well, I've done it vortexians! I have assembled information that will allow even the most conservative budget to get into the act for doing calorimetry and computer data gathering. For the most reasonable data gathering I would suggest: - DataLab Solution from LabTech Notebook. $199. This is an 8 channel A/D board CIODAS-08 JR bundled with LabTech Notebook (locked to gather only from this board) - Other items from LabTech (1-800-879-5228) that might be of use are: A teminal block. $49, a cable $25, and a D/A analog output to compliment the CIODAS-08, $50. - To help gather the data for this board I recommend a $140, 10-150ml/min flow meter from McMillan Co, Georgetown, TX (1-512-863-0231) (0-5 VDC Out, 12 VDC power supply needed.) - And last, the 0-400mV output for -40 to 300 degree F, digital thermometer kit, 3370-RB, from Marlin P. Jones, 1-800-652-6733, for $9. - As I see it, for about $600, (presuming you have a PC) one can be set up with about a +/- 1% accurrate calorimetry apparatus. I would also recommend calling Visual Solutions at 1-508-392-0100 for a DemoVisSim, which can elagantly process your data.(Cost: The phone call.) - After this information is out, and given a lag time of a year or two, anyone who whines about CF and CF experiments has NO EXCUSE, when it is this easy to get into the business of serious data gathering. MDH ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 24 00:17:50 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA21809; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: chuck@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG (Chuck Knight) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Energy Depression X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > There are indeed more-efficient models of current technology that would > be of great benefit to put into common use. Some I can think of: Agreed! > Tesla turbine engines (my personal favorite, for an almost complete > description of a gas-powered tesla turbine engine, read Tesla's > patent # 1,329,559) A classic example...do you anything about these, that is not in the patent information? Apparently there is a little more to their construction than Tesla put in that patent...at least to get maximum efficiency out of them. > hybrid gas/electric cars (gasoline generator powering a car with an electric > powered drive train - the generator floats the batteries, charging them > when the car is stopped/slow, and helps power the car otherwise) I recently read an article on this...Chrysler is introducing an Intrepid sports-car, which is hybrid, and gets something like 80mpg with REAL sports car pickup. It's due out sometime around 1998. It's also a hot topic on the EV list. > gas-vapor carbeurators (from what I've heard, this is how the > the high-milage carbs mostly work - I've also heard of injecting a bit > of water into the mix to also be vaporized in the explosion and help > generate more pressure in the cylinder) I sent him several files on these types of devices...seems like they should work pretty well, though the compression ratio for the cylinders may have to be adjusted for maximum efficiency. But, this is routinely done for CNG conversions, so it can't be too hard. -- Chuck Knight From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 24 00:11:39 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA21927; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605240533.BAA07937@helios.oit.unc.edu> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Jahzid Allah To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Peace, Introduction. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hello, my name is Jahzid. I am starting grad school in Physics this fall at Purdue. I am interested in building and experimenting with some of the devices outlined as being on "fringe science", especially electromagnetic self propulsion devices. I am especially interested in a device described in Keelynet under the file DRIVE1.ASC in the Gravity Section. It is called "Self-Sustained Electromagnetic Propulsion" and from my initial observations it seems possible. Has anyone attempted to construct this device? Thank you for your time. Peace. Jahzid Allah From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 24 00:16:33 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA22074; Fri, 24 May 1996 00:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 00:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Ball Lightning X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 18 May 1996, Alan Hooppell wrote: > Regarding the speed of BL. > I recall my late father telling me about an instance that he witnessed > during his national service period in the middle east. Egypt, Palestine? I > don't recall. The BL he described to me was about a metre diameter, and > gently floated and bobbed what I imagine to be several tens of metres, > before hitting a diamond mesh chain-link metal fence and dissipating in a > flash. I don't know what state the fence was left in. Very Interesting! I'm not aware of many Ball Lightning files on internet. I just put together a small BL page for any who are interested. It's on my Tesla Coil page in the list of links. ...............................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 24 16:34:43 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA07945; Fri, 24 May 1996 16:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 16:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Stevie and Amanda 'VIRUS' WARNING X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 24 May 1996, Paul Camp wrote: > Received this message recently. You might want to respond. Doesn't > sound like the most complicated project in the world but I suppose > they are trying to illustrate just how far the Internet can reach. > Take a minute to help Stevie and Amanda out. > > > Hi, our names are Stevie and Amanda. We are in the 5th grade at the > Phillipston Memorial school, Phillipston, Massachusetts, USA. We are > doing a I recall seeing an announcement about this recently. In essence, it said "HELP! PLEASE STOP!" I suspect Stevie and Amanda learned far more than they wanted to about email dynamics. They unfortunately neglected to put a time limit on their request. And so their message has become an internet virus-meme-urban- legend, a meme plague living a life of its own via email as good hearted people pass it on to friends, and everyone mailbombs poor Stevie and Amanda continuously with greetings long after their project was complete. Is everyone here aware of this particular form of internet dynamics? If you ever receive a message which says "Please pass this message along to friends," all your alarm bells should go off, because chances are that the message is a self-replicating email meme. Last year just such a message got loose and almost killed the Santa Claus site. It said "please pass this message to your friends, and please send lots of email messages to the Santa Claus site because a big company donates $.01 for each message received." The message was a mistake, the donations were for webpage hits, not emails, but the message had just the right characteristics to "catch fire" (or maybe "start epidemic" is a better analogy,) spread to thousands of users, and cause them to unwittingly mailbomb santa claus. Another occurrence was the "Good Times" virus hoax. The message said to warn all your friends about a virus which spread by email. This message caught fire and spread all over the entire internet, causing several large companies to go into conniptions about a virus plague which didn't exist. Well, actually it did. The warning messages WERE THEMSELVES the virus plague. And the virus did not infect computer systems, it infected human minds and convinced them to replicate the message and propagate it to others. These epidemics aren't limited to email. There is a famous case where a request went out to send postcards to a young cancer patient in England, who was trying to collect a million postcards. Years later the thousands of postcards kept pouring in. Another case of an intentionally started meme which unfortunately did not carry a time limit as part of the request. These email-plagues are too simple really to be called viruses. They act more like naked genetic material, like the self-replicating "Prions" which cause Mad Cow disease. "Mad Email" disease? Don't become part of these waves of self organizing email-virus epidimics. Be suspicious of strange email which asks you to do something kind and also to forward a copy to your friends. Sometimes these messages are real, such as requests for donor organs or medical expertese. But if there is no mention of a time limit, it is a sure bet that the message has gone feral, and is circulating unnecessarily as an email-virus. For more info on this mind-virus concept, see Richard Dawkins THE SELFISH GENE, the part about Memetics. Or read the alt.folklore.science, alt.folklore.urban, and alt.memetics newsgroups. Or search the net for info about the history of "Good Times" memetic virus plague. ....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 24 19:06:08 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA01932; Fri, 24 May 1996 19:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605250121.SAA00258@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Attn Elizabeth Rose X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: snip . . . >> >Hi Elizabeth, > >I work with a low mass fixture on a frictionless pivot and practice >by spinning the fixture. Results very depending on a number of >conditions, on a good day I can start it, stop it, speed it up, slow >it down, move it in increments of a few degrees, that sort of thing. > >I became aware of the native ability about 25 years ago and started >working to try and understand what was going on about 15 years ago. > >I think there are aspects to psychokinesis that may relate to free >energy devices, but I think the introduction of a "psychic factor" is >detrimental to an already controversial field. If you wish more >information feel free to contact me at polleyr@cia.com > 5/24/96 Rob, Do you have any videos of your amazing ability? I would love to see one. RWW From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 25 15:13:05 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA13177; Sat, 25 May 1996 15:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 15:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <79F9C23FD3@enterprise.cia.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Rob Polley" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: PK and Interconectedness X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 19:02:20 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Attn Elizabeth Rose > snip . . . > > >> > >Hi Elizabeth, > > > >I work with a low mass fixture on a frictionless pivot and practice > >by spinning the fixture. Results very depending on a number of > >conditions, on a good day I can start it, stop it, speed it up, slow > >it down, move it in increments of a few degrees, that sort of thing. > > > >I became aware of the native ability about 25 years ago and started > >working to try and understand what was going on about 15 years ago. > > > >I think there are aspects to psychokinesis that may relate to free > >energy devices, but I think the introduction of a "psychic factor" is > >detrimental to an already controversial field. If you wish more > >information feel free to contact me at polleyr@cia.com > > > > > 5/24/96 > > Rob, > > Do you have any videos of your amazing ability? I would love to see > one. > > RWW > > Hi Richard, Thank you for your interest. No I don't have any, sorry. My posting here a few days ago was a spur of the moment decision, and in effect my first timid step out of the closet..... it was more a case of "what the heck, you have to do it some time so go for it" than anything else, so I wasn't prepared with promotional materials. I am not yet sure that the smartest thing might not just be to jump back in to that closet and slam the door real quick! I have never been video taped, but I have been thinking about it for a while now, and may produce something if it seems important. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sat May 25 20:07:37 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA01474; Sat, 25 May 1996 19:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 25 May 1996 19:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: William Beaty To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Request from Austria... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 23:13:56 +-200 From: Martin Tajmar Hi! I'm a student of technical physics in Vienna and I'm very interested, especially in those electrogravity things. I'm experimenting with the Biefeld-Brown effect for years, but my power supply is too small to make further experiments (25 kV, 15 watts). I saw your "Four Sale" area and there are offers for power supplys and capacitors. That's fantastic, but the shipping costs to Austria are too much. Do you know a place or somebody in europe where I can get used devices like that or capacitors? Please email me, you would do me a big favour! Thank you very much in advance. Yours Martin Tajmar e9325719@stud1.tuwien.ac.at From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sun May 26 12:50:23 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA23420; Sun, 26 May 1996 12:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 May 1996 12:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Brent Davidson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Cloud Busters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: I've seen messages in the past discussing cloud busters, but I've never understood exactly what they are or how they work. I do understand (I hope) that they can be used to "disentigrate" (if that is an approiate word) clouds, but can they also stimulate the formation of clouds? I think I've also gathered that the plans for them are not available in the U.S. Is this correct? If so, where are the plans available from?? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brent Davidson (davidson@vvm.com) From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Mon May 27 23:13:36 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA28760; Mon, 27 May 1996 23:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 23:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605280501.BAA39512@seminole.gate.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Guy Ricci To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: mind control X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >This Tuesday's Science Section of the New York Times, which may still be on >the Internet, has an interesting article about experimenting with mind >control using a 10 kilohertz electromagnet of between 1 and 2 henry's of >magnetic strength. Wallace Edward Brand > This sounds fascinating! Anybody have a copy of this they could post to the list or email me? It doesn't seem to be on the New York Times site anymore. Thanks in advance for your help. Guy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 28 04:42:00 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA05998; Tue, 28 May 1996 04:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 04:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31a9854c.45091777@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cloud Busters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 26 May 1996 12:47:22 -0700 (PDT), Brent Davidson wrote: >I've seen messages in the past discussing cloud busters, but I've never >understood exactly what they are or how they work. I do understand (I >hope) that they can be used to "disentigrate" (if that is an approiate >word) clouds, but can they also stimulate the formation of clouds? I >think I've also gathered that the plans for them are not available in the >U.S. Is this correct? If so, where are the plans available from?? Any If it is true that plans are not available in the US, I would be very interested in knowing what the official reason for that is. >information would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, >Brent Davidson (davidson@vvm.com) > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 28 06:42:59 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA16982; Tue, 28 May 1996 06:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 06:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605281309.IAA12227@firefly.prairienet.org> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cloud Busters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > >>I've seen messages in the past discussing cloud busters, but I've never >>understood exactly what they are or how they work. I do understand (I >>hope) that they can be used to "disentigrate" (if that is an approiate >>word) clouds, but can they also stimulate the formation of clouds? I >>think I've also gathered that the plans for them are not available in the >>U.S. Is this correct? If so, where are the plans available from?? Any > >If it is true that plans are not available in the US, I would be very >interested in knowing what the official reason for that is. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk Evidently the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) considered Reich's work with Orgone and cloudbusters to be too dangerous. They put a ban on the cloudbuster for some reason. I don't know where that stands now. I noticed there are a couple books available which are mentioned on the Orgonomy homepage (id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/). There wasn't any data on them on the homepage though. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Tue May 28 21:59:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA28565; Tue, 28 May 1996 21:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 21:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605290140.VAA18182@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: nsheldon@voyager.net (Jim Sheldon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Al Greene's experiment and Re: Ball Lightning X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Art Bell has alot lot of whacko's on his radio show but a gentleman who is >really into radio named Al Greene (sp?) was on a while back talking about >a "cold fusion" experiment that required two nickels, 30 volts, and sodium >bicarbonate in solution. Has anyone done this one? Is there anything in >print on this one? Greene has some ham mag called "73" and some mag called >"cold fusion." He was supposed to have started PC magazine. > > >His name is Wayne Greene, and yes he started 73 magazine (a ham radio mag his call is WNS2D/1), also to his credit is "Radio Fun" "CQ" "Cold Fusion" the standard for the field, And several other computer, and Music industry mags that were-are standard in their own fields. (he was, is editor of all of these that he hasn't sold). He is a Multi-millionare, World Traveler, and is very well read. has been to many of the cold fusion, Telsa, and Over unity conferences around the world, he has headed up several pannels for the Govnener of his home state. as well as being an most proficient speaker, that I have had the privilage to hear. has visited, and is friends with King Husain, and many other foriegn diginataries. and claims to know what hapened to Amealia Airheart. this is one very involved and interesting individual who I am proud to have met and talked to, the bottom line is if he said something to be so, then he's propably tried it or published the research on it. he is on AOL and can be contacted through Wayne Greene Publications, in I believe Petersbrough, New Hampshire. Jim Sheldon From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Wed May 29 17:52:02 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA14655; Wed, 29 May 1996 17:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 17:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605300034.UAA26011@vixa.voyager.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: nsheldon@voyager.net (Jim Sheldon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Al Greene's experiment and Re: Ball Lightning X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Woops typo his call is W2NSD/1 and if you are interested the address for Wayne Green Publications is 70 Route 202N Peterborough NH 03458 PH 603-924-8613 From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 30 09:10:11 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA10528; Thu, 30 May 1996 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31ADC2AD.7E48@pi.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: MvD To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Biefeld-Browm effect: experimental data??? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I'have been a lurker for some time now and I now want to know more about the biefeld-brown effect. Everything I have found on the web is pretty inpreciese and sometimes highly subjective. What I am looking for is just clear data. Possibly for doing some experiments myself in the future. Does anybody have experimental data about this effect? I am curious about: - Used materials - Circumstances like: are the experiments done in a vacuum and how good was the vacuum. Does the effect create a force equal in all directions? On what parameters depends the force and which parameters are measured (like vacuum level, used dielectric material, distance between the condensor plates, charge and voltage, distance from test equipment to the wals of the room, etc). Size and form of the condensor-plates. Layout of the test-equipment. - How are the various measurements done? - Does the force depends on where the test equipment is lokated, and if and where people are relative to the testequipment? - Is the force the same verticaly as horizontaly, if the rest of the conditions stays the same? greetings Maarten ---------------------- Dootingh@pi.net Utrecht The Netherlands From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 30 13:50:58 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA00880; Thu, 30 May 1996 13:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605301606.MAA23530@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: MWO, Double Helix, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Rick Wall had written: (a few weeks back) >Yes, really. DNA is a biological molecule that is dynamic in the size >and shape of it's structure... >... Real life DNA is constantly dynamically reacting to and influencing >it's local (and nonlocal, in my view) environment. To name a few, pH, >inorganic salt ions, H2O, histones, polyamines and especially polyanions >chemically, dynamically influence the shape and structure of DNA. >As an aside, when topological stresses become great enough the DNA helix >twists upon itself and forms a secondary DNA helix. Sort of like twisting >and knoting a rubber band. More stress, a tertiary DNA helix forms. So, >self similarity on different scales. (My word, Ring any fractal >dimension bells?). Reference by request. Understood. >A question for one and all. What is the REAL length and width of any >functioning segment of DNA? Answer to this question allows evaluation >of the accuracy of Winter's so called DNA Phi based ratio. Exactly, Dan's claim only applys over 360 degrees, not over the full chain. The coiling you describe is what he claims is the physical manifestation of the process you describe (as having non-local components). >As you know and have recently most eloquently elaborated, good science >is practiced by definite and defined order. A branch of pathologic >science involves first defining the result, then narrowly devising a >scheme or experiment, to the exclusion of all others, that "proves" the >foregone conclusion. The dependent variable (Winter's Phi in this >case) is chosen, the independent variables are very selectively chosen >to the exclusion of all others (Winter's DNA length and width) and >then a mathematical formula is concocted (Winter's DNA L/W ratio). >Nature, as the final arbiter, is exquisitely precise. So, if the final >results don't exactly match the dependent variables precision, it's OK >to fudge a little. Next the independent variables are rearranged or >reselected for better precision and match with the foregone conclusion. >Maybe the mathematical formula needs to be redesigned (Nature really >respects our mathematics, right?). Gosh! still not close enough. >Well, we can always average values. Average what? Oh, Yeah! "Perhaps >there is a mean ratio, with some variation above and below this mean as >a result of the information content? . . ." A few points here, first the Phi ratio of lenght to width was reportedly observed, not calculated by theory. If the results do not match exactly, we must find out to what degree they do not match, and then decide if the accuracy is sufficient to support the theroy, if we have a theory first. As to the use of average values, this might indeed be cirtical in the study of fractal behavior and patterns. You tread a fine line here. >So now this very precise, so called Golden Mean has pejorated into an >ordinary mean ratio and Nature is really impressed. Total scientific >rubbish. I'll call you on that one. Provide the references please. A simple look at the relationship between the Fibbonachi series and Phi shows some interesting facts. The ratio between any two adjectent numbers in the series only approiximates Phi, while the average of the series actually converges on Phi. Maybe average values are rubbish, rather like physiological "norms", everyone has variations, so the norm does not apply to each case? >This type of "science" should arouse immediate skepticism and open >minded criticism. Off topic, but the same scheme goes for McClain and >Wooten with their MRA pontification about phi, psi, tetrahedrons, et >cetera, ad nauseam. We've all heard it before. The Holy Grail is >first found then there are all kinds of acrobatics proposed to explain >it. All science should do so. Survival of the fittest in intellectual terms? Debunkery is another topic with fine lines. >Re: EEG and EKG phi based frequency progressions are calculations. "In my experience, these are measured and observed rather than calculated. Normally, you expect to see harmonic progressions in for form 1f, 2f, etc. In some cases however, we see 1f, (Phi f) progressions. Usually, these frequencies are not static, but mildly chaotic while still following the Phi based frequency seperations. This is evident in the geomagnetic field." >Good to see you measuring here. There is a little calculation involved >though if you derived phi from the data. Other than a FFT performed by a commercial spectrum analizer and data analysis package to find the spectra in the first place, what calaculations are implied "if you derived phi from the data"? Why do you assume phi was "derived" rather than observed, and what is the difference please? >Measurements imply measuring points. Exactly what were your measuring >points in the EKG and EEG wave forms? Ground lead on the Mastoid, one pickup over each temproal lobe. Also this is observed in EKG with standard pickup placement, and in EMG data throughout the body. >How did you measure the chaotic content of the wave forms? The 'chaotic attractor' of a givcen signal may be plotted simply by delivering the signal to the X and Y axis of an oscilloscope with a phase shift between the two axis. For narow band signals, this phase shift should ideally be 90 degrees. Analog CCD "bucket brigade" delay lines work well enough for wider band signals. The resultaing lissagouse pattern shows the behavior over time in phase space. >How and what is evident in the geomagnetic field? 1st Schuman resonance = 7.83 Hz (Nom. +/- 4 Hz. variation over 24 hours.) 2nd Schuman resonance = 12.67 Hz, tracks 1st schuman variations with some divation from the Phi ratio, but this variation converges on the Phi ratio. >And how did you measure it in the geomagnetic field? With several different geomagnetic sensors built from published designs, as well as with VLF scalar gear. >Sorry, cannot find it on Monroe web site. Haven't read "The >Holographic Universe", but I do know in my field, extreme caution must >be exercised in drawing a broad general conclusion from a single >noncontroled case. Too many uncontrolled variables and no control on >bias - at all. One case would be insignificant, but there are tens of thousands. The lack of control is an issue, but a phenomena that is difficult to produce in a controlled setting, but is observed in nature is still worthy of investigation. Especialy if we observed the effects of the "control" on the phenomema experimentally. Evidence from primary perception studies may imply that because of the high degree of interconnectedness, null results can be produced unser specific, testable conditions. >>As a friend once told me, "Bearden blows smoke". Bearden and Newman >>share a lot in common. An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental >>proof and voila some profound truth about Nature. And everyone else >>had damn well better believe it. Great care must be taken not to be >>Newmanized. >"A statement such as this, IS blowing smoke. No one need beleive what >I state as opinion. Your statement "An idea, a wild theory, no valid >experimental proof and voila some profound truth about Nature." has a >number of flaws. First, it is your opinion that the theory is "wild", >and also your presume without facts in eviudence that "no valid >experimental proof" exists to support the theory. As it was forwarded >as theory, why do you attack it on the grounds of lack of proof? There >is evidence for it. >Come now, Bob. You are completely, subjectively misinterpreting, >internalizing and personalizing this whole paragraph. It is a >generalized statement in reference to your comment regarding Mr. >Bearden. You were not singled out as the target. There are no >individualized targets. It is a generalized philosophical statement >regarding my view of the good conduct of science, which I thought you >adhered to. As an aside, you are the friend who made the "Bearden >blows smoke" comment. Read "Bearden and Newman share a lot in common. >An idea, a wild theory, no valid experimental proof and voila some >profound truth about Nature. And everyone else had damn well better >believe it." carefully in context and you will suddenly discover Bob >Shannon isn't in it. It is flawless and merely describes my >differences with the way two people choose to conduct their science and >impress their ideas on others. Your theories were not in anyway >attacked or discredited. This is an intellectual discussion of a topic >for which I applauded your courage to publicly bring forward. In an >effort to flesh out some of your ideas for this forum, which may be >right or wrong, I took the next step and ask for experimental proof >beyond theory. Isn't this the correct thing to do? In view of your >statement, "Yes, in my opinion Mr. Bearden has obfuscated several >specific technical points for reasons unknown. This does not show a >lack of evidence however.", I feel this procedure is also appropriate >for the other two individuals mentioned in this discussion. But, as >you know, they have a radically different way of conducting science and >dealing with those who question their methods. Perhaps I'm wrong. >Also, there is no implication that you have lack of evidence for any of >your theories. Just requests. Thanks for clearing that up, I had indeed missed the context switch totally. Sorry about that. As to theories in general, I strongly perfer to leave the theory to others. I perfer to test the theories, and then choose what to beleive. I cannot see myself developing a detailed theory, and then being objective enough to judge it's merit. I dont trust myself quite that far, but I will allow the phenomema I see lead my personal perspective wander over a very wide range. I do trust my ability to construct tests, and make observations from the data. In the Newman discussion, we had issues with the testing methods as well as with the conclusions drawn from the observations. Where Dan Winter came up, it seems you assume he's fitting the data to the theory. I cannot fully say if this is true in whole or part, but my understanding is that his background in clinical testing gave him the oppertunity to observe and become aware of the phenomema he describes rather than having formed the theory first, and then gone out looking for supporting evidence. This is why I raised the issue of objectivity here. Do you have any information that suggests Dan has "filtered" his data, or that the theory predated the data he implies led him to the theory? A friend once said "Subvert the major paradigm". Sage advice in my opinion, but a difficult asperation in practice, especially where science is concerned. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 30 13:50:46 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA01291; Thu, 30 May 1996 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605301607.MAA23546@zork.tiac.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: bshannon@tiac.net (bshannon) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cloud Busters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Zack wrote: >Evidently the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) considered Reich's work >with Orgone and cloudbusters to be too dangerous. They put a ban on the >cloudbuster for some reason. I don't know where that stands now. I >noticed there are a couple books available which are mentioned on the >Orgonomy homepage (id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/). There wasn't any >data on them on the homepage though. My understanding is that a Cloud Buster is classified as an "Infernal Machine" and the possesion, operation, or possesion of construction plans is still restricted. Someone once stated that this phrase appears in a clause of a standing law. I find this difficult to swallow, exactly how is the possesion of construction plans restricted? And yes, flowing water does appear to be best for the grounding system. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 30 20:08:50 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA07534; Thu, 30 May 1996 20:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605302217.SAA11074@mail.enter.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "David Rosignoli" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Biefeld-Browm effect: experimental data??? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > I'have been a lurker for some time now and I now want to know more about > the biefeld-brown effect. Everything I have found on the web is pretty > inpreciese and sometimes highly subjective. What I am looking for is > just clear data. Possibly for doing some experiments myself in the > future. > > Does anybody have experimental data about this effect? I assume you are already familiar with Brown's patents. There is a report from the US Air Force that can be requested that describes Biefield-Brown experiments done at ~19kV DC. I don't have the number of the report in front of me, but if anyone is interested I can post the document name and number, and the address to write to. David Rosignoli drdaveor@enter.net From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Thu May 30 20:08:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA07818; Thu, 30 May 1996 20:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605302226.PAA19652@mail.eskimo.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Brian To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Low-Tech Free NRG... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Folks, A few days ago I posted some late night ramblings concerning the issue of better gas milage (among other things). I am researching methods of increasing gas mileage, and I am thankful to have a member of this list assisting me in this endeavor. I would like to ask members of this list, and any of their friends, if anyone knows of certain combustion statistics for gasoline and propane. I would like to know the rate of expansion of an ignited air:fuel mixture so that I can calculate the amount of force being exerted on a piston within my engine's cylinder. I am sure this varies vith the octane level of the fuel, pressure of the mixture before ignition, etc. Can anyone help me? Any pointers to resources which might help me find this out? I don't want to punch a hole in my pistons while getting high mpg! What type of person specializes in fuel combustion rates? Thanks, -Brian QUANTUM@univscvm.csd.scarolina.edu From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 03:52:26 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA11584; Fri, 31 May 1996 03:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605310747.AAA30562@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Muller Magnetic Dynamo Bulletin X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: TO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN HUNTING FOR OVER UNITY Muller is willing and able to demonstrate his dynamo device OVER UNITY at any time to serious potential investors, licensees, and science analysts/reporters. They can test it on their own terms in any non-destructive way they desire to do. Any type of test equipment can be used and you are free to share the results in any manner you wish. The main hitch, Muller cannot travel and it is not sane nor practical to ship his test device. There is one restriction, namely, Muller is sensitive about the semi-conductors he has selected and their wiring. He does not want that information published, although the general concept has already been disclosed in the Technology Profile which is available on the web. For those of you have not read my posts about the Muller Dynamo, there is a very extensive briefing at: http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmag2.html I would like to see some Vortex people take a serious look at this technology. I would like to see Scott Little and Hal Puthoff kick its tires. I would be very interesting to see Chris Tinsley have a go with it. I know that you and a lot of other people have had a lot of bad experiences with so-called inventors. I know that it is difficult to believe that the "pony" is in the field, even though there is an abundance of "horse puckies" lieing around. I wish I had some simple way to clearly convince you that this is in an entirely different class. Muller has profoundly good goods. I have seen over-unity apparently demonstrated, but I do not want you to consider my testimonial as relevent, because it is not. My role is just to point to where you who have been hunting for OU are very likely to find what you are looking for. I am a very skeptical man but I am convinced you will find the Muller Dynamo the type of breakthrough you would like to find. I have never gone out on a limb like this for something out of my control, but it is easy to do when you see a working model of a fundamentally new device, crafted expertly, humming sweetly in front of you. There is no "magic" about it, Jed Rothwell. It is 12 years of radical re-engineering of every concept and every material used in motor/generators. Muller took Farraday at his word and found a way to use back emf. My way of understanding it is that he did it by creating a reverse magnetic mirror in the structure and wiring (Muller does not use these terms). Only the semiconductor switching capability made available during the past three years has enabled Muller to balance all phases and make ou work. How can we make it possible for you to look at this? One thing which will no doubt help is that I can arrange for you to speak directly with Bill Muller. There are a lot of hobbyists who want to talk with him, but my role is to screen them out at this point. We are all too much on the thin edge to feel comfortable about spending time in a purely educational capacity at this time. But we will open the doors to those who can in some way, anyway (this is not a pitch for money) help Muller, very broke in Canada, in gaining the next stage of acceptance. I will relay his phone number to you, which is unlisted, if you would like to talk with him and are willing to keep his number private. Please look at the bio material on Muller at his website. He knows what he is talking about. Steven Phillips, one of Muller's non-technical partners, will be in Southern California and Arizona during the first three weeks of June. If you would like to discuss Muller Magnetic, Phil has known Muller for about 12 years. I will be out in Houston most of next week visiting Apollo Engineering related to a different project (chemical specialties) and I could be available in that locale. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 03:54:23 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA11786; Fri, 31 May 1996 03:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31AEAC3F.4ED2@pi.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: MvD To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Biefeld-Browm effect: experimental data??? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > If anyone is interested I can post the document name and number, and > the address to write to. > > David Rosignoli > drdaveor@enter.net > yes please, send me the name and number of the document and the adress where I can get it. -- ---------------------- Dootingh@pi.net Utrecht The Netherlands From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 06:37:21 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA02688; Fri, 31 May 1996 06:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 06:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Todd Heywood To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: MWO, Double Helix, etc. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Could someone, somewhere please supply the references that provide the foundations for this discussion? Otherwise, you might as well be having this discussion privately. For example: > >A question for one and all. What is the REAL length and width of any > >functioning segment of DNA? Answer to this question allows evaluation > >of the accuracy of Winter's so called DNA Phi based ratio. > > Exactly, Dan's claim only applys over 360 degrees, not over the full chain. > The coiling you describe is what he claims is the physical manifestation > of the process you describe (as having non-local components). > Rick Wall had written: (a few weeks back) Reference to Winter's work? > > >Yes, really. DNA is a biological molecule that is dynamic in the size > >and shape of it's structure... > > >... Real life DNA is constantly dynamically reacting to and influencing > >it's local (and nonlocal, in my view) environment. To name a few, pH, > >inorganic salt ions, H2O, histones, polyamines and especially polyanions > >chemically, dynamically influence the shape and structure of DNA. > >As an aside, when topological stresses become great enough the DNA helix > >twists upon itself and forms a secondary DNA helix. Sort of like twisting > >and knoting a rubber band. More stress, a tertiary DNA helix forms. So, > >self similarity on different scales. (My word, Ring any fractal > >dimension bells?). Reference by request. > > Understood. I request the reference, please! > >So now this very precise, so called Golden Mean has pejorated into an > >ordinary mean ratio and Nature is really impressed. Total scientific > >rubbish. > > I'll call you on that one. Provide the references please. I second that. Please. Todd From bilb@eskimo.com Fri May 31 08:01:10 1996 Received: from dewey.mindlink.net (dewey.mindlink.net [204.174.16.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA19435 for ; Fri, 31 May 1996 08:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NFWENAXB by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #16) id m0uPVhB-0002IxC; Fri, 31 May 96 08:00 PDT Message-Id: X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:01:41 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: Muller Magnetic Dynamo Bulletin Status: RO X-Status: Dear Sir; I noticed your letter on Muller. I have a group of investors that would like to look at the work. Is Muller in Vancouver by any chance as that is where we are located. Appreciate you info. Byrun Fox. From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 11:33:28 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA14546; Fri, 31 May 1996 11:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Christopher Comeaux To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cloud Busters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 30 May 1996, bshannon wrote: > Zack wrote: > >Evidently the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) considered Reich's work > >with Orgone and cloudbusters to be too dangerous. They put a ban on the > >cloudbuster for some reason. I don't know where that stands now. I > >noticed there are a couple books available which are mentioned on the > >Orgonomy homepage (id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/). There wasn't any > >data on them on the homepage though. > My understanding is that a Cloud Buster is classified as an "Infernal Machine" > and the possesion, operation, or possesion of construction plans is still > restricted. Someone once stated that this phrase appears in a clause of > a standing law. Infernal Machine n: a machine or apparatus maliciously designed to explode and destroy life or property; esp : a concealed or disguised bomb. I thought a cloudbuster either made it rain or made clouds disappear, and that they were not "machines" at all. I have yet to see plans for one. cc/impulse From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 11:35:56 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA16117; Fri, 31 May 1996 11:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605311808.OAA36072@seminole.gate.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Guy Ricci To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cloud Busters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > > Zack wrote: > > >Evidently the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) considered Reich's work > >with Orgone and cloudbusters to be too dangerous. They put a ban on the > >cloudbuster for some reason. I don't know where that stands now. I > > bshannon wrote: > > I find this difficult to swallow, exactly how is the possesion of construction > plans restricted? I have heard that one reason government agencies opposed Reich was because he used radium (or some other radioactive substance) in some of his devices in quantities that could be harmful to an unwitting user. In addition, perhaps they believed his claims were unsupportable and therefore branded him a quack medical practicioner. However, I am far from being an expert on Reich's work. Perhaps someone well versed in the history of Reich/orgone can settle the question definitively. Guy From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 21:40:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA02989; Fri, 31 May 1996 21:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605312051.UAA20348@agora.stm.it> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Low-Tech Free NRG... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: >Hi Folks, > >A few days ago I posted some late night ramblings concerning the issue of >better gas milage (among other things). I am researching methods of increasing >gas mileage, and I am thankful to have a member of this list assisting me in >this endeavor. >I would like to ask members of this list, and any of their friends, if >anyone knows of certain combustion statistics for gasoline and propane. I would >like to know the rate of expansion of an ignited air:fuel mixture so that I can >calculate the amount of force being exerted on a piston within my engine's >cylinder. Hi Brian, I don't have exactly the data you are asking, but have an acquaintance here in Italy, who has been researching the same thing from a practical viewpoint. The system he came up with, is a different kind of carburettor, which makes the gasoline/air mixture into an exceedingly fine mist. It seems that this works wonders for gas mileage and reduces the pollutants as well. He offered the invention to car makers and other industries of possible interest. No one wants to touch it, although it seems to work quite well. Might be that industry is content with the current situation, or that there is a rule that no single manufacturer better get out of line??? Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger Rampa Brancaleone 25, 00165 Rome, Italy j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 21:43:19 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA03602; Fri, 31 May 1996 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <41B0431A63@enterprise.cia.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Rob Polley" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Twisters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: > Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:50:07 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Twisters > > > > > >Has anyone tried pointing a Reich cloudbuster at a tornado? > > > >Regards; > >Dennis C. Lee > > > > > > No ... interesting thought! I've had my opportunities! (I am an ESDA > tornado spotter, and we had one pass through Urbana IL a few weeks ago, > passed about 1 1/2 miles south of my house while I was out "spotting" it.) > > Where can I find info on how to build a cloudbuster? I noticed that > wasn't on the Orgonomy homepage. > > Zack > w9sz@prairienet.org > Hi Zack, You might try the Orgone Biophysical Research Lab & Natural Energy Works, Greensprings PO Box 1148, Ashland Oregon 97520 USA, Phone/fax (541) 552-0118. I got this address from a sticker on the inside cover of a book called the Orgone Accumulator Handbook by James DeMeo PhD. ISBN 0-9621855-0-7. The book was published by Natural Energy Works, PO Box 864 El Cerrito CA 94530, Fax (510) 526-5978. This appears to be an excellant book for anyone interested in the subject. I get the idea that it was published by the author and that contacting the first number will put you in touch directly, the second number may be outdated. This would be a fun project to work on, I wish you the best of luck! -Rob From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 21:43:49 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA03805; Fri, 31 May 1996 21:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31AF7FFB.EAC@keelynet.com> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: "Jerry W. Decker" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Muller Magnetic Dynamo Bulletin X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Hi Michael! Thanks for the information and location...I had 3 people provide the same address....so that means it MUST be significant as per Jungian Synchronicity......will check it out...>>> Jerry/KeelyNet From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 21:50:44 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA04075; Fri, 31 May 1996 21:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199606010240.TAA27366@big.aa.net> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: Michael Mandeville To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Muller Magnetic Dynamo Bulletin #2 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: Concerning the output characteristics of the Muller Dynamo and its "Free Run" ability: For the test concept model only Pin=1 Pout=2 Free Run is possible Potential Theoretical Pout=1 Pout=10 90% use of the stored, static energy in supermagnets may be convertible into rotary torque or juice, or any combination of the two. I posted this data about the output of the Muller Dynamo to a couple of people and now am being asked by several more so I am posting this information to the entire list. There are a couple of practical issues to resolve but they are not unresolvable. The biggest practical problem is that Muller built such a damn big test unit that he can't afford the expense at this point of a suitable storage/buffer medium (batteries can be used but create ambiguities so a capacitor bank is ideal because it can be precisely calibrated)through which to recycle his output. Muller is an old mining electrician and thinks in terms of hundreds and thousands of amps. His 450 hp unit is equivilent to 300 kw output, which is a lot of output and buffering of that is pretty expensive. There is a simple, cheap way around that, which is to forget about isolated output and just go for simple Pin/Pout, using any technique people want to fuss with, and of course also measuring the shaft power output, that is, put a mechanical load on it. The essence is very very simple. The dynamo is extremely efficient, very close to 100%, let's say 98%, so its unloaded operation requires very little net energy. All the load energy which is supplied comes directly from the stored energy in the supermagnets. Like the hydraulic power of the water cycle, you never use it up (ignoring the long term wear and tear). Pretty damn nifty. Since Faraday, nobody could figure out how to use magnetic energy to do that in a self-sustaining machine. The concept seemed to contradict itself in actual operation. Only supermagnets and super silicon switches make it possible, along with a more sophisticated use of the magnetic and paramagnetic (very important) properties of the elements to create such better over-all efficiency that you can actually harness most of the static power in the magnets. There are no complex abstruse theories needed to explain any of it but the net result is a true classic magnetic dynamo of a fundamental nature, in the same way that the Farraday, Tesla, and Westinghouse machines each defined a fundamental class. I having said all of this, here is what Muller says: he can demo the thing at 2000 rpm, switching at approx. 300 cps, drawing 900 watts dc or ac approximately to output 1800 watts of dc energy . This he determines by using simple scope monitoring, VTMS, and simple hall effect current (power) measuring devices. He claims that there is no reactive power factor at all. Well, hmmm. I have personally held and seen the meter readings with the output driven directly into a simple resistive load (a bank of 500 watt spotlights). I cannot personally vouchsafe the power factor question. To test the device, a highly controllable variable input power system is needed to keep its output throttled down. Then, a buffering system needs to capture the restricted output (ideal is a capacitor bank, but unfortunately these are a lot more expensive than batteries) and after powering up and charging up, the system should free run. Buffering the output for feedback is the issue. The capacitors need to handle 4000 watts at 200 volts, just to be safe and run no risk of burning them out. That's a lot of capacitance. Batteries can be used, but you would have to test and calibrate them and diddle with decisions like do you use them fully charged or do you use them partially discharged, etc, and then let the dynamo run for quite some time to get a good feeling about the result. Capacitors make it so clean, quick, and decisive. Muller didn't spend money on that because he didn't feel he needed to to prove his concepts through free run. He felft the measurements alone would be sufficient. But everyone wants it to free run to be convinced. Okay, but Muller is out of money and I don''t personally have much liquidity just at this moment. My partner and I are already sending him small checks to pay the rent. Now the output, if corroborated and defined by x number of people, will in no way define the actual performance of the dynamo concept, properly prototyped. That is one reason why I did not use numbers in the "Technology Profile". Numbers get used indiscriminately. Bad stuff gets immortalized too easily. The output from the test model is just what you get from the test model under a certain load and wiring configuration, in this case, expect Pin=1, Pout=2 (approximately close) >From calcuations of magnetic field densities which are now obtainable with super magnets in a properly engineered prototype which complete the magnetic circuits which were left open in the test model for ease of experimentation, Muller 1:10 is possible, if so, it means that around 90% of the magnetic energy in the supermagnets can be converted into torque or juice or a bit of both (which makes this so damn magical, and the perfect solution for electrical vehicles, even if it didn't operate over unity). NOW PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT A SPECIFIC CLAIM. THIS IS A BELIEF ABOUT POSSIBLE OBTAINABLE RESULT WITH A BETTER ENGINEERED UNIT. Now having dealt with the over unity issue, let me add, that even if the thing didn't operate over unity, it has enormous application potential. An infinitely variable speed motor/generator with the ability to operate at a wide range of voltage and load levels, 1/4th the weight of existing technology...don't lose sight of that. There is the candidly defined situation as straightly as I am able to do it. Do with it what you will...A couple of guys have expressed interest in dropping in to test it. I am also being offered some help to get the thing moved and properly tested. My candidate for testing is Scott Little and Hal Puthoff at the Arizona shop, they deserve a good result. So the whole thing may be picked up and moved...if if if I can convince Muller to do it and there is enough resource. I will be in Houston during the first week in June related to some other business but I will be back in my computer saddle by the 10th. We can communicate further from that point on. P.S. I can absolutely guarantee under pain of any penalty that Muller is no Newman. There is not even the remotest connection or simularity in technology, concepts, or personality. You will like Muller, if you can accept that he is not a theoretical physicist and does not present his case like one. But, he is highly educated on the subject and can show you how he is applying the concepts of Farraday, Lorentz, Lentz, Ampere, Telsa, etc. He is an amazing guy who takes his stuff straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The main problem is following his familiar and rapid fire use of these principles to explain what he is doing. You have to know your stuff to follow him, and frankly, I am only partially following him at this point. I wish he liked using computers, but he does not type and shows no interest at all in peronally using this form of communication. But, he is intrigued by the idea of connecting his technology to the right people through the internet. He is all ears, believe me. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 21:47:03 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA04354; Fri, 31 May 1996 21:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31af9584.14881159@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Low-Tech Free NRG... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 30 May 1996 20:02:20 -0700 (PDT), Brian wrote: > > > Hi Folks, > > A few days ago I posted some late night ramblings concerning the issue of >better gas milage (among other things). I am researching methods of increasing >gas mileage, and I am thankful to have a member of this list assisting me in >this endeavor. > I would like to ask members of this list, and any of their friends, if >anyone knows of certain combustion statistics for gasoline and propane. I would >like to know the rate of expansion of an ignited air:fuel mixture so that I can >calculate the amount of force being exerted on a piston within my engine's >cylinder. I am sure this varies vith the octane level of the fuel, pressure of >the mixture before ignition, etc. Can anyone help me? Any pointers to resources >which might help me find this out? I don't want to punch a hole in my pistons >while getting high mpg! [snip] You seem to have hit the nail on the head. Current engines are inefficient because they burn the fuel during the entire expansion stroke. This means that some of the fuel is still being burnt, even when the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder, where it can't move any further, and thus can do no useful work. This fuel, is thus totally converted into heat. Fuel burnt at the top of the cylinder, on the other hand, is in the best position to do the maximum amount of work. In between is in between. It thus follows logically, that the most efficient engine will be one in which all the fuel is completely burnt at the beginning of the expansion stroke, producing very high temperatures and pressures very rapidly. This is almost equivalent to an explosion, and it would indeed seem likely that there would be a danger of punching a hole in the top of the cylinder. This leads me to speculate on the efficiency of a diesel, as these are designed to withstand conditions more nearly approaching those described above. Perhaps a diesel engine would make a better candidate for conversion. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l@eskimo.com Fri May 31 21:49:53 1996 Received: from mail (server@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA04636; Fri, 31 May 1996 21:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <31af93cd.14441869@mail.netspace.net.au> Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Originator: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Sender: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: bulk From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cloud Busters X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 30 May 1996 13:42:05 -0700 (PDT), bshannon wrote: [snip] >My understanding is that a Cloud Buster is classified as an "Infernal Machine" >and the possesion, operation, or possesion of construction plans is still >restricted. Someone once stated that this phrase appears in a clause of >a standing law. We seem to be getting a little closer. Can anyone state categorically and precisely which US law this contravenes, and quote the relevant section? > >I find this difficult to swallow, exactly how is the possesion of construction >plans restricted? > >And yes, flowing water does appear to be best for the grounding system. > > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://www.inett.com/himac Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*