From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 1 17:18:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA13557; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609020019.RAA26204@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: tesla switch Resent-Message-ID: <"MD_6N2.0.jJ3.tTYAo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/63 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Has anybody duplicated the tesla switch or any of the motors shown on bedini's webpage? crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 3 06:43:10 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id GAA22793; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960903214109.255f104e@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Radiation Detected Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:37:00 +0800 Resent-Message-ID: <"UiLVa2.0.1a5.CI3Bo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/64 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I would like to determine what kind of radiation I am detecting with my current setup. I have a rather simple Geiger-Muller Counter. I am not well enough financially to afford more expensive equipment. I suspect that I could, using commonly available materials from my workbench, detemine the nature of the radiation bursts I am detecting. Anyone here got any suggestions on how to do this ? Some pertinent details: the radiation seems to be evenly distributed around my setup, extending in a spherical manner from an imaginary point in the center. I cannot seem to alter the sperical nature of the radiation by altering my current equipment layout. Shielding has an effect on the radiation, but it seems to be an 'either-or' situation - any shielding (aluminum foil, copper plate, etc.) seems to bring the rad count right to zero, whereas I thought I should be able to shield the source in a 'half-way' manner. Kinda hope someone here might be able to shed some light.... Lost in the haze... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 3 08:34:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA12648; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 08:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 08:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960903232551.31e72272@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Radiation Detected Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 23:21:39 +0800 Resent-Message-ID: <"vu0q31.0.X53.Zq4Bo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/65 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:01 1996.09.03 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Lost in the haze; > >What comes to mind is some type of RF interference. Could you have a >resonance coil that is re-transmitting. > >Something that is very important is what kind of detector are you using. > >Sincerely, > As I noted previously: a Geiger-Muller Counter. The documentation says it responds to Alpha, Beta, and Gamma radiation. Alpha = He nucleii Beta = very fast electrons Gamma = a very powerful, hi-Freq electromagnetic radiation. The leads on the detection portion of the circuit aren't long enough to pick up anything shorter than microwave - it goes straight from the GM tube to a Schottky device. As near as I can tell, it's not RFI. But then, I don't have a Spectrum Analyzer That $15000 USD could get me an IFR machine, but I just can't get my family to quit spending money on food long enough to save it.... Thanks anyway for your thoughts... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 3 11:00:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA17829; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 09:53:02 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Radiation Detected Resent-Message-ID: <"7DJeQ3.0.RM4.3-6Bo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/66 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: mpower wrote: >I would like to determine what kind of radiation I am detecting with my >current setup. >I have a rather simple Geiger-Muller Counter. I am not well enough >financially to >afford more expensive equipment. > >I suspect that I could, using commonly available materials from my >workbench, detemine the nature of the radiation bursts I am detecting. > >Anyone here got any suggestions on how to do this ? > >Some pertinent details: the radiation seems to be evenly distributed around my >setup, extending in a spherical manner from an imaginary point in the center. >I cannot seem to alter the sperical nature of the radiation by altering my >current equipment layout. > >Shielding has an effect on the radiation, but it seems to be an 'either-or' >situation - any shielding (aluminum foil, copper plate, etc.) seems to bring >the rad count right to zero, whereas I thought I should be able to shield >the source in a 'half-way' manner. > >Kinda hope someone here might be able to shed some light.... > >Lost in the haze... For what it's worth, here are some ideas from an amateur who works on a low budget: Since the radiation is easily stopped you could make a slit pair out of two pices of foil to create a beam. Then use a strong magnetic field to bend the beam. When passing through a B that goes left to right (N seeking pole on left, S on right) betas will go up, alphas down, and gammas straight through. You can calibrate for energy levels by using known sources as standards. It would be good to make the B variable by being able to move the magnets closer or farther apart. You can bend the beam either between the two slits or after. I like the idea of a small box with slit in front, magnets on both sides and a back consisting of a panel that moves up and down and which contains a slit and a mounting strap for the GM counter tube or probe. To change the B just add shims or spacers between the magnets. Do your experiment with no magnets then gradually increase field strength and measure beam displacement. If the source of radiation is not a point you can use a double slit front. You have to be careful to protect the GM tube from sudden attraction to the magnets and to protect the filiment in the GM tube from strong magnetic fields when it is hot. The back of the box should to be at least an inch away from the magnets. You probably can get by with weak magnets since your enregy level is so low, but to be really sure I would use a strong field to get maximum effect and then back off. A great source for powerful neodymium magnets is Magnet Applications in Horsham, PA 800-437-8890. I bought a set of four 1"x1"x.5" 35 MGO neodymium magnets from them a while back for about $100 including shipping, and have used them in numerous experiments. It's amazing how previously difficult experiments get easy when the field strength is so powerful. There is a safety factor, though. You need gloves and eye protectors because of the risk of accidental attraction. You need fairly strong mounts for such magnets if they are utilized within an inch of each other. Another good source is Master Magnetics Inc, 800-525-3536. There is another ugly possibility here. You might have a large neutron source. Such a source could create nucleides that generate the secondary radiation which you are detecting. I have heard that if you have a strong neutron source you can detect it by wrapping your GM tube in silver foil. You might be able to hammer out a piece of silver into foil to make a neutron converter. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 3 21:38:38 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA04690; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:36:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199609040436.VAA20275@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: 5/5/2000 Resent-Message-ID: <"BadY83.0.D91.RTGBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/67 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Does anybody have a scientific handle on the supposed catastrophy which may happen on this date? The physicist I talked to about this said that only a tensile force or pull can be transmitted from one mass to another through space. So the sudden tipping of the Earth's axis from the alignment of the other planets on this date is not possible. I didn't buy the book because of this reasoning. I got second thoughts from looking on John Searl's webpage. He seems to subscribe to this phenomenon on this date. Mr. Searl has a mathematical understanding of the space fabric (his magic squares) that may give him a more profound insight of this mechanism. Has anyone out there got the book '5/5/2000'? Regards; Dennis C. Lee From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 4 05:35:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id FAA28024; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960904203822.22cf7caa@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: 5/5/2000 Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 20:34:10 +0800 Resent-Message-ID: <"x9Vbm2.0.mr6.KTNBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/68 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 21:36 1996.09.03 -0700, you wrote: >Does anybody have a scientific handle on the supposed catastrophy which may >happen on this date? The physicist I talked to about this said that only a >tensile force or pull can be transmitted from one mass to another through >space. So the sudden tipping of the Earth's axis from the alignment of the >other planets on this date is not possible. I didn't buy the book because of >this reasoning. I got second thoughts from looking on John Searl's webpage. >He seems to subscribe to this phenomenon on this date. Mr. Searl has a >mathematical understanding of the space fabric (his magic squares) that may >give him a more profound insight of this mechanism. Has anyone out there got >the book '5/5/2000'? > >Regards; >Dennis C. Lee > I dunno. Didn't happen here, near as I can tell. Maybe he slipped a decimal point or something. Perhaps he was just plain wrong. If it happens, let me know - that kind of event could be interesting. I would have to get out the old videocamera and spin some tape for that. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 4 06:31:54 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id GAA08392; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 06:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 06:25:41 -0700 (PDT) From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: crosiar@goldrush.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: tesla switch Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:09:10 -0400 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: <29XLyUQy8UAB091yn@execpc.com> References: <199609020019.RAA26204@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199609020019.RAA26204@claim.goldrush.com> Lines: 20 Resent-Message-ID: <"iMexn3.0.332.LDOBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/69 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In article <199609020019.RAA26204@claim.goldrush.com>, you wrote: >Has anybody duplicated the tesla switch or any of the motors shown on >bedini's webpage? What is the URL? I tried to duplicate it long ago from some of the original Tesla Book Company stuff. The schematic there in was wrong, but even with the corrected one I could never make the Tesla Switch work. There are some new solid-state relays out that may make this device worth taking a second look at. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 4 08:18:37 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id IAA02481; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <322E8447.1D59@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:41:59 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Radiation Detection ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Wh6Rn.0.ic.6qPBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/70 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: O.k on a similar thread, About 4-5 years ago I was experimenting with some High Gain Op-amps (these were to be used to provide amplification of a slowly varying D.C signal). As a test my fellow researcher and I hooked up a Photo-transistor (Base-Emitter Junction) across the input, and sure we had a quite nice light sensor, O.k so we decided to try a few other things - Photodiode same - good result, then we connected a L.E.D across the input, which as you will know can act in a similar fashion, the strange effect occured when we used a YELLOW L.E.D on the input, I was getting an unusual output we shielded it from light sources ( Photons = Hi MeV etc etc ), however we noted that when there was a computer monitor OR normal T.V screen running within about 10-12 feet the effect was VERY noticeable, AHA .. R.F or 15 Khz switching pulses .. Had to be BUT WAIT ... THERES MORE ! The effect disappeared when you placed your HAND between the Source (T.V) and the sensor, and returned when you moved your hand away, we tested this for shielding effects etc, but what (ever) we were detecting from the T.V was stopped (or severely attenuated) by the human Body. This is indicative of Either R.F radiation ( but foil did not stop it) or X-Ray radiation, although with modern T.V sets and monitors, provided they have not been tampered with the X-ray radiation is / SHOULD be minimal. Maybe this is a clue to the effect that "Mpower" is observing ? - I think I Still have the Circuit - Somewhere ! Best regards, Glen Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer MID-FM 87.6 Kapunda S.A (085) 66-3600 (Business Hrs ONLY). Outback Communications (085) 66-3236 (Business Hrs ONLY). Stage Lighting, Audio and SPECIAL EFFECTS Custom Software design and development (DOS or Windows). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 4 11:22:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA11903; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:15:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609041815.NAA10130@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: bpaddock@execpc.com Subject: Re: tesla switch Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"9HCPX1.0.uv2.7USBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/71 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >In article <199609020019.RAA26204@claim.goldrush.com>, you wrote: >>Has anybody duplicated the tesla switch or any of the motors shown on >>bedini's webpage? > >What is the URL? > www.nidlink.com/~john1 Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 4 13:57:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA14701; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 13:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 12:45:21 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Radiation Detection ... Resent-Message-ID: <"PlqPm1.0.bb3.kdUBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/72 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello, I am new to this group. My apologies, but I subscribed after Mpower described his experiment - so I don't have a clue as to what kind of gadget is creating the radiation. If anyone has the post of this description or if there is an archive where I can find it I would be gateful if you could let me have the information. Thanks. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 4 23:55:06 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA14914; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 23:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609050652.XAA24863@serbia.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Radiation Detection ... Resent-Message-ID: <"RqJ3x3.0.te3.bZdBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/73 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:45 PM 9/4/96 -0800, you wrote: >Hello, > >I am new to this group. My apologies, but I subscribed after Mpower >described his experiment - so I don't have a clue as to what kind of gadget >is creating the radiation. >If anyone has the post of this description or if there is an archive where I can find it I would be gateful if you could let me have the information.> http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/fnrg, is the location for the archives. >Thanks. > > >Regards, > PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 > Here is the repost: Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:41:59 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Radiation Detection ... Resent-Message-ID: <"Wh6Rn.0.ic.6qPBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/70 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com O.k on a similar thread, About 4-5 years ago I was experimenting with some High Gain Op-amps (these were to be used to provide amplification of a slowly varying D.C signal). As a test my fellow researcher and I hooked up a Photo-transistor (Base-Emitter Junction) across the input, and sure we had a quite nice light sensor, O.k so we decided to try a few other things - Photodiode same - good result, then we connected a L.E.D across the input, which as you will know can act in a similar fashion, the strange effect occured when we used a YELLOW L.E.D on the input, I was getting an unusual output we shielded it from light sources ( Photons = Hi MeV etc etc ), however we noted that when there was a computer monitor OR normal T.V screen running within about 10-12 feet the effect was VERY noticeable, AHA .. R.F or 15 Khz switching pulses .. Had to be BUT WAIT ... THERES MORE ! The effect disappeared when you placed your HAND between the Source (T.V) and the sensor, and returned when you moved your hand away, we tested this for shielding effects etc, but what (ever) we were detecting from the T.V was stopped (or severely attenuated) by the human Body. This is indicative of Either R.F radiation ( but foil did not stop it) or X-Ray radiation, although with modern T.V sets and monitors, provided they have not been tampered with the X-ray radiation is / SHOULD be minimal. Maybe this is a clue to the effect that "Mpower" is observing ? - I think I Still have the Circuit - Somewhere ! Best regards, Glen Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer MID-FM 87.6 Kapunda S.A (085) 66-3600 (Business Hrs ONLY). Outback Communications (085) 66-3236 (Business Hrs ONLY). Stage Lighting, Audio and SPECIAL EFFECTS Custom Software design and development (DOS or Windows). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 5 10:54:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA03656 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:54:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: ekwall2@november.diac.com Thu Sep 5 10:54:27 1996 Received: from diac.com (diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA03621 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ekwall2@localhost) by diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05704; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:54:11 GMT Old-Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:54:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Mpower cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 5/5/2000 In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19960904203822.22cf7caa@po.pacific.net.sg> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 4 Sep 1996, Mpower wrote: > Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 20:34:10 +0800 > From: Mpower > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: 5/5/2000 > At 21:36 1996.09.03 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anybody have a scientific handle on the supposed catastrophy which may > >happen on this date? The physicist I talked to about this said that only a > >tensile force or pull can be transmitted from one mass to another through > >space. So the sudden tipping of the Earth's axis from the alignment of the > >other planets on this date is not possible. I didn't buy the book because of > >this reasoning. I got second thoughts from looking on John Searl's webpage. > >He seems to subscribe to this phenomenon on this date. Mr. Searl has a > >mathematical understanding of the space fabric (his magic squares) that may > >give him a more profound insight of this mechanism. Has anyone out there got > >the book '5/5/2000'? > > > >Regards; > >Dennis C. Lee I dunno. But the National Syndicated 'Art Bell' Radio Host is receiving MULTIPLE faxes and CALLS about the EARTH's MAGNET Field Going awry 8-10 degrees on more more frequent occassions.. SET Your Home COMPASS up to see same ... mine has shown upto 6 degrees (boyscout compass)..Weird! ------------------oOOOo--( 0 0 )--oOOOo------------------ -=Steve Ekwall=- O POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com wk.1.800.798.1100 ekwall2@freenet.scri.fsu.edu_________________1.303.293.2FAX From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 5 18:42:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA20383; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:40:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Kap808@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:39:20 -0400 Message-ID: <960905213918_516752436@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Freenrg@eskimo.com, -l@eskimo.com Subject: The current state of free energy development Resent-Message-ID: <"iZva1.0.I-4.t3uBo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/74 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A I am writing an article on free energy developments for national publication. I want to find out two important aspects of this development: (1) Which units are closest to commercial release, and (2) Have any parties released information over the Internet or through any other open media that is complete and accurate enough for back-yard mechanics to build their own free energy devices that actually work. Can anybody provide accurate information for this article? When you reply, please let me know something about you, so I can judge the background you bring to your answers to my questions. Thanks for your help. It is my strong belief that we need a much better informed public regarding this whole matter. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 6 12:11:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA05876; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <32307451.13AC@leon.nrcps.ariadne-t.gr> Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 21:58:25 +0300 From: John Piliounis Organization: Home Sweet Home X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The current state of free energy development References: <960905213918_516752436@emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ilm-e1.0.iR1.tH7Co"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/75 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Kap808@aol.com wrote: > > I am writing an article on free energy developments for national publication. > I want to find out two important aspects of this development: (1) Which > units are closest to commercial release, and (2) Have any parties released > information over the Internet or through any other open media that is > complete and accurate enough for back-yard mechanics to build their own free > energy devices that actually work. Can anybody provide accurate information > for this article? When you reply, please let me know something about you, so > I can judge the background you bring to your answers to my questions. Thanks > for your help. It is my strong belief that we need a much better informed > public regarding this whole matter. I think, that you may have not, until now, a solid knowledge or experience on what is actually happening in this group. Beeing a member on this group presupposes that you are able, at least, to realize what posting is "clear" and what posting is not. I think that dedicated persons on the quest for FREE and CLEAR energy to the people, do realy have the ability to make clear what device and system really works. Be sure that you won't be arount this quest for long, if you go public with systems that actually work with an overunity coefficient. Be patient. Deticate more time on perfecting your ideas on certain systems or domains of knowledge. Then the truth will be more obvious in front of your vicinity. Thank's for giving me the cause for my first posting. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 6 13:54:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA29502; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Kap808@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:45:06 -0400 Message-ID: <960906164503_303026922@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The current state of free energy development Resent-Message-ID: <"tO8lG1.0.tC7.Ds8Co"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/76 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: When I sent this message out I forgot to put my name at the end. Please send it again with the following message. The author of this request is Stephen Kaplan, a free-lance researcher and writer. I am currently working on an article for national publication with Brian O'Leary, author of "Miracle in the Void" and co-founder of the Association for New Science. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 6 21:53:09 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA06911; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 21:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 21:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 22:27:48 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960906211522.283f4a46@holly.colostate.edu> X-Sender: trex@holly.colostate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Thomas Rice Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Antigravity Resent-Message-ID: <"Nf-96.0.sh1.CeFCo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/77 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >X-Sender: ebknapp@yesic.com >Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 17:58:04 -0400 >To: ianr@global-data.com >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto >Subject: UFO UpDate: Re: Antigravity > >From: Vince_Johnson_at_TENSOR__HSTN@ccmailsmtp.hstn.expl.pgs.com >Date: Fri, 06 Sep 96 15:29:23 cst >To: ebknapp@yesic.com >Subject: anti-gravity breakthrough? > >Subject: Anti-gravity device gives science a lift >From: acobley@mic.dundee.ac.uk >Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 17:03:52 +0100 > >>From Fortean Times On-line Reporting service at: > >http://alpha.mic.dundee.ac.uk/ft/ft.html > >The following was reported by Andy C using >the Fortean Times - On line reporting service > >----------------------------------------------------------- > > Seen in Electronic Telegraph on 1 September 1996 > > SCIENTISTS in Finland are about to reveal details of the world's first > anti-gravity device. Measuring about 12in across, the device is said to > reduce significantly the weight of anything suspended over > it. > > The claim - which has been rigorously examined by scientists, and is > due to appear in a physics journal next month - could spark a > technological revolution. By combating gravity, the most ubiquitous > force in the universe, everything from transport to power generation > could be transformed. > > The Sunday Telegraph has learned that Nasa, the American space agency, > is taking the claims seriously, and is funding research into how the > anti-gravity effect could be turned into a means of flight. > > The researchers at the Tampere University of Technology in Finland, > who discovered the effect, say it could form the heart of a new power > source, in which it is used to drive fluids past > electricity-generating turbines. > > > Other uses seem limited only by the imagination: > > Lifts in buildings could be replaced by devices built into the > ground. People wanting to go up would simply activate the anti-gravity > device - making themselves weightless - and with a gentle push ascend > to the floor they want. > > Space-travel would become routine, as all the expense and danger > of rocket technology is geared towards combating the Earth's > gravitation pull. > > By using the devices to raise fluids against gravity, and then > conventional gravity to pull them back to earth against > electricity-generating turbines, the devices could also revolutionise > power generation. > > According to Dr Eugene Podkletnov, who led the research, the discovery > was accidental. It emerged during routine work on so-called > "superconductivity", the ability of some materials to lose their > electrical resistance at very low temperatures. The team was carrying > out tests on a rapidly spinning disc of superconducting ceramic > suspended in the magnetic field of three electric coils, all enclosed > in a low-temperature vessel called a cryostat. > > "One of my friends came in and he was smoking his pipe," Dr Podkletnov > said. "He put some smoke over the cryostat and we saw that the smoke > was going to the ceiling all the time. It was amazing - we couldn't > explain it." > > Tests showed a small drop in the weight of objects placed over the > device, as if it were shielding the object from the effects of gravity > - an effect deemed impossible by most scientists. > > "We thought it might be a mistake," Dr Podkletnov said, "but we have > taken every precaution". Yet the bizarre effects persisted. The team > found that even the air pressure vertically above the device dropped > slightly, with the effect detectable directly above the device on > every floor of the laboratory. > > In recent years, many so-called "anti-gravity" devices have been put > forward by both amateur and professional scientists, and all have been > scorned by the establishment. What makes this latest claim different > is that it has survived intense scrutiny by sceptical, independent > experts, and has been accepted for publication by the Journal of > Physics-D: Applied Physics, published by Britain's Institute of > Physics. > > Even so, most scientists will not feel comfortable with the idea of > anti-gravity until other teams repeat the experiments. Some scientists > suspect the anti-gravity effect is a long-sought side-effect of > Einstein's general theory of relativity, by which spinning objects can > distort gravity. Until now it was thought the effect would be far too > small to measure in the laboratory. > > However, Dr Ning Li, a senior research scientist at the University of > Alabama, said that the atoms inside superconductors may magnify the > effect enormously. Her research is funded by Nasa's Marshall Space > Flight Centre at Huntsville, Alabama, and Whitt Brantley, the chief of > Advanced Concepts Office there, said: "We're taking a look at it, > because if we don't, we'll never know."

> > The Finnish team is already expanding its programme, to see if it can > amplify the anti-gravity effect. In its latest experiments, the team > has measured a two per cent drop in the weight of objects suspended > over the device - and double that if one device is suspended over > another. If the team can increase the effect substantially, the > commercial implications are enormous. > > >Contact email address: acobley@mic.dundee.ac.uk > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- > >This has been reported via the > > >___________________________________ >Errol Bruce-Knapp (ebk@nobelmed.com) >UFO UpDates - Toronto - 416-932-0031 >The OnLine Information List Service of MUFON Ontario > >The messages posted to this List do not necessarily reflect >the opinions of MUFON Ontario > >MUFON Ontario's Home Page: >http://www.interlog.com/~epona/mufonont.html > >The Canadian Ufologist - A MUFON Ontario Publication >http://www.interlog.com/~lourenco/ufologist.html > > > > Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 8 11:02:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id KAA00584; Sun, 8 Sep 1996 10:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 10:56:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 10:01:02 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Radiation Detection ... Resent-Message-ID: <"3aVNY1.0.v8.VZmCo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/78 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:52 PM 9/4/96, Michael Randall wrote: >At 12:45 PM 9/4/96 -0800, you wrote: >>Hello, >> >>I am new to this group. My apologies, but I subscribed after Mpower >>described his experiment - so I don't have a clue as to what kind of gadget >>is creating the radiation. > >>If anyone has the post of this description or if there is an archive where >I can find it I would be gateful if you could let me have the information.> > >http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/fnrg, is the location for the archives. > >>Thanks. >> >> >>Regards, >> PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >>Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 >> > >Here is the repost: > >Resent-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:15:19 -0700 (PDT) >Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:41:59 -0700 >From: Glenville Sawyer Hello Michael, Nice to see a familiar name. Thanks for the information. I have much catching up to do via the archives, even though this list doesn't seem too active of late. I was looking for a description of Mpower's experiment to determine from what the radiation is emitted. I had assumed the experiment had been described and that I missed it, being a newcomer. However, after looking at the archives, it appears Mpower did not describe the experiment at all, only the radiation. Mpower, it would be nice to hear about your experiment, or would that be disclosing too much? Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 8 20:49:38 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id UAA26426; Sun, 8 Sep 1996 20:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 20:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960909114413.272f23c4@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Radiation Detection ... Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 11:39:50 +0800 Resent-Message-ID: <"3PnKh2.0.nS6.S6vCo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/81 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:01 1996.09.08 -0800, you wrote: >At 11:52 PM 9/4/96, Michael Randall wrote: >>At 12:45 PM 9/4/96 -0800, you wrote: >>>Hello, >>> >>>I am new to this group. My apologies, but I subscribed after Mpower >>>described his experiment - so I don't have a clue as to what kind of gadget >>>is creating the radiation. >> >However, after looking >at the archives, it appears Mpower did not describe the experiment at all, >only the radiation. Mpower, it would be nice to hear about your >experiment, or would that be disclosing too much? > I am having problems with the setup, (a small HV particle accelerator) and the 'experiment' is still changing on a daily basis. Until I get some repeatable runs, I shouldn't really comment. The problem is not disclosure, but rather disclosing results that do not send people scrambling around buying unnecessary components and/or equipment. Don't worry - if it ever comes together I'll let you know about it. pa From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 8 21:19:57 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA03170; Sun, 8 Sep 1996 21:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 21:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 23:13:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609090413.XAA00873@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Additional information Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"5KJej.0.Nn.hbvCo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/82 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >John Bedini, a young designer of audio devices and speakers, was listening >to the program. Impressed with Bearden's ideas, Bedini began tinkering >with his own energy multiplication device. After long conversations with >Bearden of Alabama on the phone and much testing, Bedini was sure he had a >device that put out more energy than it took in. > >Mr. Bedini had not wanted to patent the device but rather make it >immediately available to the people of the world. When radio host, Bill >Jenkins, got word of the device, he sent Dr. Patrick Flanagan, an >electronics genius in his own right, to test it. "It worked," says >Jenkins. "He had successfully developed a device that literally draws upon >the free electrons which swirl around us, all the time, and harnessed them >into doing work. > >Seeking to understand more about the nature of this lleged 'free energy' >device, I read the text of a speech by Thomas Bearden, titled, 'Toward a >New Electromagnetics,' as it appeared in an edition of Energy Unlimited. >Bearden states that 'the universe is filled with fantastic amounts of >anenergy; ultimately, that is what the unviersal vacuum is.' Anenergy, >Bearden defines as a flow or flux of virtual particles -- bringing to mind >Joseph Newman's concept of gyroscopic particles." (end of quote from >INFINITE ENERGY NEWSLETTER) > >__________________________________________________________________ > >The point of the above is that Bedini "learned" of how to construct such a >device from Mr. Bearden. Mr. Bearden in turn "learned" how to build such a >device from two gentlemen (friends of Bearden) whom he sent from >Huntsville, Alabama to visit Joseph Newman and see an working prototype in >the early months of 1984 -- we have a photograph of their visit with Joseph >Newman. These two gentleman reported back to Mr. Bearden as to how Joseph >Newman's machine operated. It's easy to see why Bedini wasn't interested >in patenting the invention: it wasn't his to patent in the first place. >Joseph Newman had originally filed a patent application five years earlier >(before 1984). > >Moreover, these "anerergy particles" --- gyroscopic particles --- >specifically originate from the magnetic fields generated in the coil and >magnet rotor of his Motor/Generators. Joseph Newman has described this >mechanical process in great detail. > >Best regards, > >Evan Soule' >Director of Information >NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >josephnewman@earthlink.net I have read practically everything Tom Bearden has written. The above is definitely not true. For one thing, Tom Bearden's theory is not even vaguely close to Mr. Newman's. The "anenergy" is a zero-point fluctuation. He refers frequently to Tesla, Moray, Hal Puthoff, E. T. Whittaker, Richard Ziolkowski, Bohm and Aharonov as sources. One of Bearden's first published papers on the subject, THE EXCALIBUR BRIEFING, is dated (underline) 1980. His theory is closer to the theories of John Archibald Wheeler (Geometrodynamics) and T. Henry Moray (The Sea of Energy). John Bedini's "free energy" device derives its energy from the electrolyte of a battery, according to his theory. The source is commonly known to physicists as the "Dirac Sea". His solid-state Tesla Switch has no coils or motors whatsoever in it. Read the papers before you speak. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 9 07:05:04 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id GAA12233; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:56:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 09:50:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609091350.JAA25650@mail.inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: Additional information Resent-Message-ID: <"KZAoJ.0.y-2.282Do"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/84 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:16 AM 9/09/96 -0600, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>John Bedini, a young designer of audio devices and speakers, was listening >>>to the program. Impressed with Bearden's ideas, Bedini began tinkering >>>with his own energy multiplication device. After long conversations with >>>Bearden of Alabama on the phone and much testing, Bedini was sure he had a >>>device that put out more energy than it took in. >>> >>>Mr. Bedini had not wanted to patent the device but rather make it >>>immediately available to the people of the world. When radio host, Bill >>>Jenkins, got word of the device, he sent Dr. Patrick Flanagan, an >>>electronics genius in his own right, to test it. "It worked," says >>>Jenkins. "He had successfully developed a device that literally draws upon >>>the free electrons which swirl around us, all the time, and harnessed them >>>into doing work. >>> >>>Seeking to understand more about the nature of this lleged 'free energy' >>>device, I read the text of a speech by Thomas Bearden, titled, 'Toward a >>>New Electromagnetics,' as it appeared in an edition of Energy Unlimited. >>>Bearden states that 'the universe is filled with fantastic amounts of >>>anenergy; ultimately, that is what the unviersal vacuum is.' Anenergy, >>>Bearden defines as a flow or flux of virtual particles -- bringing to mind >>>Joseph Newman's concept of gyroscopic particles." (end of quote from >>>INFINITE ENERGY NEWSLETTER) >>> >>>__________________________________________________________________ >>> >>>The point of the above is that Bedini "learned" of how to construct such a >>>device from Mr. Bearden. Mr. Bearden in turn "learned" how to build such a >>>device from two gentlemen (friends of Bearden) whom he sent from >>>Huntsville, Alabama to visit Joseph Newman and see an working prototype in >>>the early months of 1984 -- we have a photograph of their visit with Joseph >>>Newman. These two gentleman reported back to Mr. Bearden as to how Joseph >>>Newman's machine operated. It's easy to see why Bedini wasn't interested >>>in patenting the invention: it wasn't his to patent in the first place. >>>Joseph Newman had originally filed a patent application five years earlier >>>(before 1984). >>> >>>Moreover, these "anerergy particles" --- gyroscopic particles --- >>>specifically originate from the magnetic fields generated in the coil and >>>magnet rotor of his Motor/Generators. Joseph Newman has described this >>>mechanical process in great detail. >>> >>>Best regards, >>> >>>Evan Soule' >>>Director of Information >>>NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >>>josephnewman@earthlink.net >> >>I have read practically everything Tom Bearden has written. The above is >>definitely not true. >> >>For one thing, Tom Bearden's theory is not even vaguely close to Mr. >>Newman's. The "anenergy" is a zero-point fluctuation. He refers >>frequently to Tesla, Moray, Hal Puthoff, E. T. Whittaker, Richard >>Ziolkowski, Bohm and Aharonov as sources. One of Bearden's first >>published papers on the subject, THE EXCALIBUR BRIEFING, is dated >>(underline) 1980. >> >>His theory is closer to the theories of John Archibald Wheeler >>(Geometrodynamics) and T. Henry Moray (The Sea of Energy). >> >>John Bedini's "free energy" device derives its energy from the >>electrolyte of a battery, according to his theory. The source is commonly >>known to physicists as the "Dirac Sea". His solid-state Tesla Switch has >>no coils or motors whatsoever in it. >> >>Read the papers before you speak. >> >>Zack >>w9sz@prairienet.org >> > >Dear Zack, > >I have read the papers of Bedini and Bearden. We even have letters >received from Mr. Tom Bearden and written by him in 1984 praising Joseph >Newman for his revolutionary work in electromagnetics. > >I am aware of Bearden's "explanation." The point I was making in the >earlier post was that during 1984 Bearden learned the specific details of >the construction of one of those Newman Motor/Generators via his two >friends which he (Bearden) sent from Huntsville, Alabama to visit Joseph >Newman. These specific construction details were passed along to Bedini >(via the KABC connection) who then proceeded to construct a prototype. > >If Bedini wishes to construct such a prototype for his own use, >experimentation, and edification --- this is fine. Should Bedini choose to >market the technology and/or claim it as original to him, this is another >issue entirely. > >And another point --- with respect to past, present, and future litigation: >ultimately, I place the *real* source of such problems not at the feet of >the Bedini's of the world --- improvements, additions, etc. to pre-existing >technologies have often been the rule rather than the exception throughout >history. The *real* source of such problems is: THE PATENT OFFICE. > >A number of the bureaucrats --- *especially* patent examiner Donovan F. >Duggan --- who have worked at that establishment, have proven themselves to >be incompetent to the task. It is far easier for such incompetents to >claim "perpetual motion" rather than to expend the intellectual energy >necessary to understand a new technology which may challenge earlier >notions of the nature of the Universe. The "fall-out" from such >incompetence is that issues later arise which should never have happened in >the first place. > >I understand that a large number of "free-energy devices" are log-jammed at >the Patent Office. More than likely, this will eventually create a >litigational nightmare. I have heard and read many independent >articles/reports which attribute this to the simple stupidity of patent >office bureaucrats. Other writers have claimed that it may also be due to >pressure from established interests. > >Yes, the ultimate blame lies at the 'irresponsible feet' of certain members >of the Patent Office. They will be legally brought to account for their >actions. > >Evan Soule' >josephnewman@earthlink.net > > > I'm new to this list but I couldn't help wondering something and I am curious if it struck anyone else: If the Newman motor works, and the Correas reactor works and the Patterson cell works, I'm just wondering how is it that Patterson and Correas (Infinite Energy Magazine) obtained patents but Newman didn't? Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 9 14:29:20 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA10244; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 14:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 14:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 16:19:22 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Additional information Resent-Message-ID: <"F50ok2.0.xV2.fd8Do"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/86 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>I'm new to this list but I couldn't help wondering something and I am >>>curious if it struck anyone else: If the Newman motor works, and the Correas >>>reactor works and the Patterson cell works, I'm just wondering how is it >>>that Patterson and Correas (Infinite Energy Magazine) obtained patents but >>>Newman didn't? >>> >>>Colin Quinney >> >>Dear Colin, >> >>First of all, Patterson and Correas were not placed in the care of >>incompetent patent examiner Donovan F. Duggan. Secondly, Joseph Newman >>(via his Patent Application in 1979) specifically claimed "greater external >>energy output" than external energy input --- since this was, in fact, the >>nature of the technology. Patterson was less explicit in his claim and, I >>understand, that this has also been true with Correas. >[snip] >>Evan Soule' > >I'm, new also, and some things are unclear to me. If Newman had a patent >application in 1979, well over 15 years ago, for an o-u motor, why isn't he >an electric utility baron? If I had invented such a gadget my house would >be heated by it immediately (I live in Alaska) and I would sell the excess >power to the electric utility and build from there. It seems like there is >too much focus on patents and legalities today. Why not focus on >production of energy? Patents are only important if you have competition >that is hurting your business. There are plenty of products produced today >that were patented well over 20 years ago. No patent is necessary for >successful commercial production. On the other hand, evidence of successful >production of a unique product adds much to a patent application. Fifteen >years is a lot of time to lose. If the invention works, use it. If you >can't use it, why not give it to the world. You can't take it with you. > > >Regards, > PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 Permit me to answer your question "loosely" and then I will address it more specifically. By "loose" analogy: Tell you what .... presuming you own your house in Alaska, and presuming you have worked the better part of your life to earn the means to purchase and improve that house to your liking ... why don't you give your house to me .... I need it. Or, if you like, give it to the world and let a different person of the world live in it every day from now on. Moreover, myself and the rest of the world will not recognize that house as "your" house --- we will simply say it belongs to the world, has always belonged to the world, and will always belong to the world. Just step aside, Mr. Heffner ... "your" house is now "ours." Although I can't speak for you, most people's incentive to then go out and repeat the process of creating a home for themselves might be somewhat diminished if such occurred. More specific reply: When Joseph Newman first began his battle with the Patent Office, he made it very clear that 1) he recognized that this could be a very long battle and 2) the battle WAS NOT -- repeat, WAS NOT -- for his benefit. The benefit was for the inventors of the present and future who might not have his willingness to fight for what he believes to be right .... inventors who, forced with such opposition, might just throw in the towel and say, "to hell with it." Such would be a loss for the inventor in question. The greater loss would be for the rest of humanity that could well benefit for years to come from such (inhibited) creativity. Bit of Background: Over the years, as I learned more and more about Joe's background, I came to respect him for his stand. Example: Joe was raised in an orphanage as a young boy. But he was always ready to stand up for what he believed was right and not give in. He told me once that on the first day of the new, school-year classes at the orphanage, invariably there was a new "bully" that proceeded to pick on the small children. Every year Joe would do his best to try to find out who the bully was on that first day of school, go up to the bully and tell him to leave the small children alone. Always the result would be the same. The bully would then decide to beat Joe up, and, much to the bully's suprise, the opposite would happen. The rest of that school year was quiet and peaceful. I included this short story to show that Joe would vastly prefer not to fight, but if fighting is called for, he is quite prepared to be the "first in line." By their behavior, the Patent Office is the "new bully"....and as I stated above, Joseph Newman is fighting his fight for those inventors who may not have his temerity to wage this fight, year after year after year. I believe we are close to seeing a resolution. Some rather dramatic events have unfolded in the past 6 months --- and especially in the past 3 weeks --- which only serve to vindicate what our position has been for over 15 years. Legal action is anticipated. And why is a patent so important? We have consistently discovered that companies are not prepared to bring forth -- for the first time -- innovative commercial products without being assured of some form of patent protection. If you know of a company that would be an exception to this rule, we would love to talk with them about going into production. Please email me directly. Our Founding Fathers knew the importance of patent protection. They knew the importance of nurturing and protecting the most creative of our inhabitants: our innovators. If this be done honestly and done efficiently, we will ALL reap the benefits. Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.angelfire.com/pg8/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 9 22:52:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id WAA18003; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 22:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 22:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 01:25:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609100525.BAA24799@mail.inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: Re: Additional information Resent-Message-ID: <"ZEjCb2.0.BP4.RrFDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/87 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 04:19 PM 9/09/96 -0600, you wrote: >>>>I'm new to this list but I couldn't help wondering something and I am >>>>curious if it struck anyone else: If the Newman motor works, and the Correas >>>>reactor works and the Patterson cell works, I'm just wondering how is it >>>>that Patterson and Correas (Infinite Energy Magazine) obtained patents but >>>>Newman didn't? >>>> >>>>Colin Quinney >>> >>>Dear Colin, >>> >>>First of all, Patterson and Correas were not placed in the care of >>>incompetent patent examiner Donovan F. Duggan. Secondly, Joseph Newman >>>(via his Patent Application in 1979) specifically claimed "greater external >>>energy output" than external energy input --- since this was, in fact, the >>>nature of the technology. Patterson was less explicit in his claim and, I >>>understand, that this has also been true with Correas. >>[snip] >>>Evan Soule' >> >>I'm, new also, and some things are unclear to me. If Newman had a patent >>application in 1979, well over 15 years ago, for an o-u motor, why isn't he >>an electric utility baron? If I had invented such a gadget my house would >>be heated by it immediately (I live in Alaska) and I would sell the excess >>power to the electric utility and build from there. It seems like there is >>too much focus on patents and legalities today. Why not focus on >>production of energy? Patents are only important if you have competition >>that is hurting your business. There are plenty of products produced today >>that were patented well over 20 years ago. No patent is necessary for >>successful commercial production. On the other hand, evidence of successful >>production of a unique product adds much to a patent application. Fifteen >>years is a lot of time to lose. If the invention works, use it. If you >>can't use it, why not give it to the world. You can't take it with you. >> >> >>Regards, >> PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >>Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 > > >Permit me to answer your question "loosely" and then I will address it more >specifically. > >By "loose" analogy: >Tell you what .... presuming you own your house in Alaska, and presuming >you have worked the better part of your life to earn the means to purchase >and improve that house to your liking ... why don't you give your house to >me .... I need it. Or, if you like, give it to the world and let a >different person of the world live in it every day from now on. Moreover, >myself and the rest of the world will not recognize that house as "your" >house --- we will simply say it belongs to the world, has always belonged >to the world, and will always belong to the world. Just step aside, Mr. >Heffner ... "your" house is now "ours." Although I can't speak for you, >most people's incentive to then go out and repeat the process of creating a >home for themselves might be somewhat diminished if such occurred. > >More specific reply: >When Joseph Newman first began his battle with the Patent Office, he made >it very clear that 1) he recognized that this could be a very long battle >and 2) the battle WAS NOT -- repeat, WAS NOT -- for his benefit. The >benefit was for the inventors of the present and future who might not have >his willingness to fight for what he believes to be right .... inventors >who, forced with such opposition, might just throw in the towel and say, >"to hell with it." Such would be a loss for the inventor in question. The >greater loss would be for the rest of humanity that could well benefit for >years to come from such (inhibited) creativity. > >Bit of Background: >Over the years, as I learned more and more about Joe's background, I came >to respect him for his stand. Example: Joe was raised in an orphanage as >a young boy. But he was always ready to stand up for what he believed was >right and not give in. He told me once that on the first day of the new, >school-year classes at the orphanage, invariably there was a new "bully" >that proceeded to pick on the small children. Every year Joe would do his >best to try to find out who the bully was on that first day of school, go >up to the bully and tell him to leave the small children alone. Always the >result would be the same. The bully would then decide to beat Joe up, and, >much to the bully's suprise, the opposite would happen. The rest of that >school year was quiet and peaceful. > >I included this short story to show that Joe would vastly prefer not to >fight, but if fighting is called for, he is quite prepared to be the "first >in line." > >By their behavior, the Patent Office is the "new bully"....and as I stated >above, Joseph Newman is fighting his fight for those inventors who may not >have his temerity to wage this fight, year after year after year. > >I believe we are close to seeing a resolution. Some rather dramatic events >have unfolded in the past 6 months --- and especially in the past 3 weeks >--- which only serve to vindicate what our position has been for over 15 >years. Legal action is anticipated. > >And why is a patent so important? We have consistently discovered that >companies are not prepared to bring forth -- for the first time -- >innovative commercial products without being assured of some form of patent >protection. If you know of a company that would be an exception to this >rule, we would love to talk with them about going into production. Please >email me directly. > >Our Founding Fathers knew the importance of patent protection. They knew >the importance of nurturing and protecting the most creative of our >inhabitants: our innovators. If this be done honestly and done >efficiently, we will ALL reap the benefits. > >Best regards, > >Evan Soule' >Director of Information >NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >josephnewman@earthlink.net >http://www.angelfire.com/pg8/Newman/index.html > > Dear Evan: I think Horace's main point was that it would have been to Joe Newman's advantage to prove to the world that his motor worked. Horace is talking about Joe generating electricity and then selling it to the "grid". This would have been a more impressive media event (Cutting his utility supply), than running down thousands of transistor batteries in an old electric car. Media events of that nature fire the imagination of the public. The public elects the officials who can put the pressure on the patent office bully. The proof of the pudding would have been in the revenue statements from the elecric utility company and the IRS statement of the taxes he paid. I don't think Horace was suggesting that Joe just give his invention away. I think he was suggesting that it was a rather obvious step for Joe to start actually heating his home and selling electricity from the O-U of his motor..... if the thing actually works, why hasn't he done that? I have to wonder the same. Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 06:53:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id GAA03706; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:44:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609101344.IAA09088@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Additional information Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"V3MT1.0.iv.W4NDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/88 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >I think Horace's main point was that it would have been to Joe Newman's >advantage to prove to the world that his motor worked. Horace is talking >about Joe generating electricity and then selling it to the "grid". This >would have been a more impressive media event (Cutting his utility supply), >than running down thousands of transistor batteries in an old electric car. >Media events of that nature fire the imagination of the public. The public >elects the officials who can put the pressure on the patent office bully. >The proof of the pudding would have been in the revenue statements from >the elecric utility company and the IRS statement of the taxes he paid. > >I don't think Horace was suggesting that Joe just give his invention away. >I think he was suggesting that it was a rather obvious step for Joe to start >actually heating his home and selling electricity from the O-U of his >motor..... if the thing actually works, why hasn't he done that? > >I have to wonder the same. > >Colin Quinney > > Simple ... it never gets cold in Lucedale! :-) Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 07:04:17 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA06472; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:58:38 +0100 (BST) From: M R Lovell To: "Dennis C. Lee" cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 5/5/2000 In-Reply-To: <199609040436.VAA20275@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hEDpw3.0._a1.IINDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/89 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, Dennis C. Lee wrote: > Does anybody have a scientific handle on the supposed catastrophy which may > happen on this date? The physicist I talked to about this said that only a > tensile force or pull can be transmitted from one mass to another through > space. So the sudden tipping of the Earth's axis from the alignment of the > other planets on this date is not possible. I didn't buy the book because of > this reasoning. I got second thoughts from looking on John Searl's webpage. > He seems to subscribe to this phenomenon on this date. Mr. Searl has a > mathematical understanding of the space fabric (his magic squares) that may > give him a more profound insight of this mechanism. Has anyone out there got > the book '5/5/2000'? > > Regards; > Dennis C. Lee > Are you refering to the 'Earth Crust Displacement' theory? I have read something about this theory a while ago and my memory is a bit foggy but I think this has been put forward as a possible mechanism contributing to the last ice-age and the Atlantis legend. From the depths of my memory I think the book was called 'Fingerprints of the Gods' in which the above formed only a small section. I believe A. Einstein okayed the proposed theory, but I'm pretty sure he didn't come up with it originally. The phenomenon could possibly occur again relatively soon but I'm not sure about the date '5/5/2000, an alternative date is given in 'FotG' book some time around the start of the next millenium. The theory is based on a favourable (?) alignment of the solar system planets coupled with an uneven distribution of mass on the Earth's crust (heavier around the poles (ice caps), lighter around the equator). Gravitational forces will be strong enough (it is argued) to pull the ice caps into alignment with the planets whilst leaving the inner core of the Earth essentially untouched. Thus the present ice caps will melt and new ones form near magnetic north and south. I don't think the magnetic poles themselves will be affected with respect to the plane of motion around the sun. Hope this is of help Mike Lovell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 07:25:26 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA10802; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609101417.KAA02749@mail.inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Resent-Message-ID: <"Lwa.0.ge2.XdNDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/90 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Evan, Ok, I give up. I am being inundated with information. Just tell me where I can get the plans to replicate an inexpensive version of the device. I'll post my results. Thanks, Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 11:19:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA29964; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:05:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Robert Brown" Organization: Bell College of Technology To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:25:20 GMT Subject: Resonant freq of water Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.33) Message-Id: <902DC74BF@resource.bell.ac.uk> Resent-Message-ID: <"ssvli3.0.3K7.btQDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/91 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi all I was having a look at the Meyer fuel cell on the free energy page. Has anyone duplicated it? Does anyone know the frequency necessary for the dc pulse? I assume this will be at the resonant frequency of water? Thanks for any help. Robert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 11:42:06 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA05927; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 13:29:15 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Additional Information Resent-Message-ID: <"gT0Ct1.0.RS1.FERDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/92 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >At 04:19 PM 9/09/96 -0600, you wrote: >>>>>I'm new to this list but I couldn't help wondering something and I am >>>>>curious if it struck anyone else: If the Newman motor works, and the >>>>>Correas >>>>>reactor works and the Patterson cell works, I'm just wondering how is it >>>>>that Patterson and Correas (Infinite Energy Magazine) obtained patents but >>>>>Newman didn't? >>>>> >>>>>Colin Quinney >>>> >>>>Dear Colin, >>>> >>>>First of all, Patterson and Correas were not placed in the care of >>>>incompetent patent examiner Donovan F. Duggan. Secondly, Joseph Newman >>>>(via his Patent Application in 1979) specifically claimed "greater external >>>>energy output" than external energy input --- since this was, in fact, the >>>>nature of the technology. Patterson was less explicit in his claim and, I >>>>understand, that this has also been true with Correas. >>>[snip] >>>>Evan Soule' >>> >>>I'm, new also, and some things are unclear to me. If Newman had a patent >>>application in 1979, well over 15 years ago, for an o-u motor, why isn't he >>>an electric utility baron? If I had invented such a gadget my house would >>>be heated by it immediately (I live in Alaska) and I would sell the excess >>>power to the electric utility and build from there. It seems like there is >>>too much focus on patents and legalities today. Why not focus on >>>production of energy? Patents are only important if you have competition >>>that is hurting your business. There are plenty of products produced today >>>that were patented well over 20 years ago. No patent is necessary for >>>successful commercial production. On the other hand, evidence of successful >>>production of a unique product adds much to a patent application. Fifteen >>>years is a lot of time to lose. If the invention works, use it. If you >>>can't use it, why not give it to the world. You can't take it with you. >>> >>> >>>Regards, >>> PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >>>Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 >> >> >>Permit me to answer your question "loosely" and then I will address it more >>specifically. >> >>By "loose" analogy: >>Tell you what .... presuming you own your house in Alaska, and presuming >>you have worked the better part of your life to earn the means to purchase >>and improve that house to your liking ... why don't you give your house to >>me .... I need it. Or, if you like, give it to the world and let a >>different person of the world live in it every day from now on. Moreover, >>myself and the rest of the world will not recognize that house as "your" >>house --- we will simply say it belongs to the world, has always belonged >>to the world, and will always belong to the world. Just step aside, Mr. >>Heffner ... "your" house is now "ours." Although I can't speak for you, >>most people's incentive to then go out and repeat the process of creating a >>home for themselves might be somewhat diminished if such occurred. >> >>More specific reply: >>When Joseph Newman first began his battle with the Patent Office, he made >>it very clear that 1) he recognized that this could be a very long battle >>and 2) the battle WAS NOT -- repeat, WAS NOT -- for his benefit. The >>benefit was for the inventors of the present and future who might not have >>his willingness to fight for what he believes to be right .... inventors >>who, forced with such opposition, might just throw in the towel and say, >>"to hell with it." Such would be a loss for the inventor in question. The >>greater loss would be for the rest of humanity that could well benefit for >>years to come from such (inhibited) creativity. >> >>Bit of Background: >>Over the years, as I learned more and more about Joe's background, I came >>to respect him for his stand. Example: Joe was raised in an orphanage as >>a young boy. But he was always ready to stand up for what he believed was >>right and not give in. He told me once that on the first day of the new, >>school-year classes at the orphanage, invariably there was a new "bully" >>that proceeded to pick on the small children. Every year Joe would do his >>best to try to find out who the bully was on that first day of school, go >>up to the bully and tell him to leave the small children alone. Always the >>result would be the same. The bully would then decide to beat Joe up, and, >>much to the bully's suprise, the opposite would happen. The rest of that >>school year was quiet and peaceful. >> >>I included this short story to show that Joe would vastly prefer not to >>fight, but if fighting is called for, he is quite prepared to be the "first >>in line." >> >>By their behavior, the Patent Office is the "new bully"....and as I stated >>above, Joseph Newman is fighting his fight for those inventors who may not >>have his temerity to wage this fight, year after year after year. >> >>I believe we are close to seeing a resolution. Some rather dramatic events >>have unfolded in the past 6 months --- and especially in the past 3 weeks >>--- which only serve to vindicate what our position has been for over 15 >>years. Legal action is anticipated. >> >>And why is a patent so important? We have consistently discovered that >>companies are not prepared to bring forth -- for the first time -- >>innovative commercial products without being assured of some form of patent >>protection. If you know of a company that would be an exception to this >>rule, we would love to talk with them about going into production. Please >>email me directly. >> >>Our Founding Fathers knew the importance of patent protection. They knew >>the importance of nurturing and protecting the most creative of our >>inhabitants: our innovators. If this be done honestly and done >>efficiently, we will ALL reap the benefits. >> >>Best regards, >> >>Evan Soule' >>Director of Information >>NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >>josephnewman@earthlink.net >>http://www.angelfire.com/pg8/Newman/index.html >> >> >Dear Evan: > >I think Horace's main point was that it would have been to Joe Newman's >advantage to prove to the world that his motor worked. Horace is talking >about Joe generating electricity and then selling it to the "grid". This >would have been a more impressive media event (Cutting his utility supply), >than running down thousands of transistor batteries in an old electric car. >Media events of that nature fire the imagination of the public. The public >elects the officials who can put the pressure on the patent office bully. >The proof of the pudding would have been in the revenue statements from >the elecric utility company and the IRS statement of the taxes he paid. > >I don't think Horace was suggesting that Joe just give his invention away. >I think he was suggesting that it was a rather obvious step for Joe to start >actually heating his home and selling electricity from the O-U of his >motor..... if the thing actually works, why hasn't he done that? > >I have to wonder the same. > >Colin Quinney Dear Colin, This can be addressed with several points: First: Joe is not a multi-millionaire, nor a large corporation -- he is an independent inventor who has invested most of his life in inventing and thinking. Over the years he has constructed by hand over a dozen prototypes, ranging in size from less than 2 pounds to over 15,000 pounds. He has had his Motor/Generator powering incandescent lights, fluorescent lights, home appliance fans, power saws, table saws, water pumps, toy trucks, and two different automobiles. He chose to produce these items because a) they were within his financial means to do so, and/or b) they could be easily [except in case of the largest prototype -- which he actually did transport to Washington D.C. on a flatbed truck for a national demonstration at the Capitol Centre] transported to any location for a public demonstration, and/or c) the items could be easily repeatable by others. His concern was that if he was powering his own house with such a device --- the conventional scientific establishment would still not believe him and say that he "had a hidden device" under his house, etc.... hence his decision to construct portable working protypes that could be easily viewed, inspected, tested, etc. Secondly: IMO and in the opinion of a quite a few other people, Joe has proved that his Motor/Generator works ... again and again and again. This was certainly the independent conclusion of William Schuyler: former U.S. Commissioner of the Patent Office and electrical engineer who was appointed by a Federal Judge as a Special Master to the Court to issue a Report evaluating the technology. In fact, during his selection process as Special Master, both the Federal Judge and Patent Office officials specifically expressed the fact that they were impressed with Schuyler's superb technical qualifications. And Schulyer was nominated for this position by the Patent Office, not by Joseph Newman. Joseph Newman's two nominees for Special Master were not accepted by the Court and the Patent Office. As the Special Master stated: "The evidence before the Patent and Trademark Office and this Court is overwhelming that Joseph Newman has built and tested a prototype of his invention in which the output energy exceeds the external input energy; there is NO contradictory factual evidence." The Special Master went on to state in his Report that a) There was ample evidence that one skilled in the art could construct or utilize the energy machine; b) the Patent Office did not examine the petitioner's (Joseph Newman's) application on its merits in accordance with usual practices; c) The Patent Office Board of Appeals' finding rejecting such a machine as 'impossible' was 'clearly erroneous'; and d) Petitioner Joseph Newman is entitled to a patent. Others have built their own prototypes which verify the machine's operability. One of the most recent is a gentleman in Philadelphia who built a small prototype earlier this year and is now constructing a larger prototype. Recently posted on the website is even a small prototype built by an 11-year old girl (with the help of her father who had a background in electrical engineering) who won 1st Place in her Science Fair. Thirdly: An announcement is planned for the near future regarding major developments concerning this technology. Best regards, Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 12:28:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA18179; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:24:59 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Additional information Resent-Message-ID: <"FJsVf1.0.vR4.B-RDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/93 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I see my reply to the following was sent by private email instead of posting. The replies to post to this group are different than for those of vortex, so I must adjust. Please pardon my fumbling. Here was my reply: "If my house could solve the world energy crisis I would give it up in a second. I still do not understand why you want to manufacture widgets when you can manufacture energy. You have the best possible start small and grow business I can imagine. I have a patent that requires device manufacturing to be of use. It requires a manufacturer to back it. You are in a much better position. Present law permits you to sell to the electric utility, so you have a built in customer base, and you have no minimum baseline production. How much does one of your motors cost in single quantity, say in $/KW produced?" Last post: At 4:19 PM 9/9/96, Evan Soule wrote: >>>>I'm new to this list but I couldn't help wondering something and I am >>>>curious if it struck anyone else: If the Newman motor works, and the Correas >>>>reactor works and the Patterson cell works, I'm just wondering how is it >>>>that Patterson and Correas (Infinite Energy Magazine) obtained patents but >>>>Newman didn't? >>>> >>>>Colin Quinney >>> >>>Dear Colin, >>> >>>First of all, Patterson and Correas were not placed in the care of >>>incompetent patent examiner Donovan F. Duggan. Secondly, Joseph Newman >>>(via his Patent Application in 1979) specifically claimed "greater external >>>energy output" than external energy input --- since this was, in fact, the >>>nature of the technology. Patterson was less explicit in his claim and, I >>>understand, that this has also been true with Correas. >>[snip] >>>Evan Soule' >> >>I'm, new also, and some things are unclear to me. If Newman had a patent >>application in 1979, well over 15 years ago, for an o-u motor, why isn't he >>an electric utility baron? If I had invented such a gadget my house would >>be heated by it immediately (I live in Alaska) and I would sell the excess >>power to the electric utility and build from there. It seems like there is >>too much focus on patents and legalities today. Why not focus on >>production of energy? Patents are only important if you have competition >>that is hurting your business. There are plenty of products produced today >>that were patented well over 20 years ago. No patent is necessary for >>successful commercial production. On the other hand, evidence of successful >>production of a unique product adds much to a patent application. Fifteen >>years is a lot of time to lose. If the invention works, use it. If you >>can't use it, why not give it to the world. You can't take it with you. >> >> >>Regards, >> PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >>Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 > > >Permit me to answer your question "loosely" and then I will address it more >specifically. > >By "loose" analogy: >Tell you what .... presuming you own your house in Alaska, and presuming >you have worked the better part of your life to earn the means to purchase >and improve that house to your liking ... why don't you give your house to >me .... I need it. Or, if you like, give it to the world and let a >different person of the world live in it every day from now on. Moreover, >myself and the rest of the world will not recognize that house as "your" >house --- we will simply say it belongs to the world, has always belonged >to the world, and will always belong to the world. Just step aside, Mr. >Heffner ... "your" house is now "ours." Although I can't speak for you, >most people's incentive to then go out and repeat the process of creating a >home for themselves might be somewhat diminished if such occurred. > >More specific reply: >When Joseph Newman first began his battle with the Patent Office, he made >it very clear that 1) he recognized that this could be a very long battle >and 2) the battle WAS NOT -- repeat, WAS NOT -- for his benefit. The >benefit was for the inventors of the present and future who might not have >his willingness to fight for what he believes to be right .... inventors >who, forced with such opposition, might just throw in the towel and say, >"to hell with it." Such would be a loss for the inventor in question. The >greater loss would be for the rest of humanity that could well benefit for >years to come from such (inhibited) creativity. > >Bit of Background: >Over the years, as I learned more and more about Joe's background, I came >to respect him for his stand. Example: Joe was raised in an orphanage as >a young boy. But he was always ready to stand up for what he believed was >right and not give in. He told me once that on the first day of the new, >school-year classes at the orphanage, invariably there was a new "bully" >that proceeded to pick on the small children. Every year Joe would do his >best to try to find out who the bully was on that first day of school, go >up to the bully and tell him to leave the small children alone. Always the >result would be the same. The bully would then decide to beat Joe up, and, >much to the bully's suprise, the opposite would happen. The rest of that >school year was quiet and peaceful. > >I included this short story to show that Joe would vastly prefer not to >fight, but if fighting is called for, he is quite prepared to be the "first >in line." > >By their behavior, the Patent Office is the "new bully"....and as I stated >above, Joseph Newman is fighting his fight for those inventors who may not >have his temerity to wage this fight, year after year after year. > >I believe we are close to seeing a resolution. Some rather dramatic events >have unfolded in the past 6 months --- and especially in the past 3 weeks >--- which only serve to vindicate what our position has been for over 15 >years. Legal action is anticipated. > >And why is a patent so important? We have consistently discovered that >companies are not prepared to bring forth -- for the first time -- >innovative commercial products without being assured of some form of patent >protection. If you know of a company that would be an exception to this >rule, we would love to talk with them about going into production. Please >email me directly. > >Our Founding Fathers knew the importance of patent protection. They knew >the importance of nurturing and protecting the most creative of our >inhabitants: our innovators. If this be done honestly and done >efficiently, we will ALL reap the benefits. > >Best regards, > >Evan Soule' >Director of Information >NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >josephnewman@earthlink.net >http://www.angelfire.com/pg8/Newman/index.html Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 12:38:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA20118; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:27:32 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Additional information Resent-Message-ID: <"T1sjn3.0.Dw4.r4SDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/95 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Evan, > >Ok, I give up. I am being inundated with information. Just tell me where I >can get the plans to replicate an inexpensive version of the device. I'll >post my results. > >Thanks, > >Colin Quinney Dear Colin, The most recently published Wiring/Construction Diagram is available from the Archive Department of the Newman Forum. I would strongly advise you to read Joseph Newman's book -- THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN -- before proceeding with any construction. The 7th Edition is available from Joseph Newman Publishing Company or, you can obtain copies of earlier Editions from your library system. If they do not have copy in stock, a number of individuals have reported its availability via the inter-library loan progam; or, you can urge your local library to obtain their own copy. Here's how to access the Newman Forum information: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ANNOUNCING the Newman-L Mailing List A mailing list about inventor Joseph Newman and his energy invention. This list is maintained on The Energy Machine Information System, Sysop, Ralph Hartwell. List Managers - Evan Soule' and Ralph Hartwell * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Why are we starting another mailing list about Joseph Newman? Well, we like to think of this list as being the "official" list for information about Mr. Newman and his inventions. Here's why... Mr. Evan Soule', has worked with Mr. Newman for many years handling public relations and fielding many questions from folks all over the world about Mr. Newman's work, both from the technical and non technical aspects. He is in an excellent position to be able to get answers to specific technical questions directly from Mr. Newman. Mr. Ralph Hartwell, has spent considerable time over the years working with Mr. Newman in the technical area. He has had the opportunity to run some personal tests on Newman's devices, and oversaw the complete reconstruction of the 15,000 pound machine after it was damaged during high-power testing. Both of these gentlemen have had personal contact with most or all of the people mentioned in Newman's book, and have also had extensive conversations, discussion and arguments with Mr. Newman over the years since he first developed his energy invention. They are uniquely poised to give you the "real stuff" in answer to your questions. This list will also allow serious experimenters a place to discuss their projects with other like-minded folks and hopefully solve their design and construction problems with accuracy. We feel that Newman-L will be of great interest to those who are genuinely interested in Joseph Newman and his inventions. We invite you to join us. WHAT'S ALLOWED ON THE LIST ? First of all, everyone's welcome aboard: "true believers", skeptics, the inquisitive, and everyone else as well. We welcome open and free discussion of Newman and his inventions, and this generally includes almost anything that relates even peripherally to Newman's work. Discussions of applications of his inventions are encouraged, as are discussions of his theory. It should be stated, however, that the subscriber is at a serious disadvantage if he/she has not read the fundamental book written by Mr. Newman. Over the past 20 years, Mr. Newman has grown a bit impatient with individuals asking him the same questions --- over and over again --- especially when these questions are specifically addressed in his 475 page book. He does honestly ask that the reader master the material within his book before addressing additional questions to him. Although this is an unmoderated list, if things should happen to get too far off topic, Evan or Ralph may request that a particular topic be taken to private Email or dropped from the ongoing discussion. WHAT'S NOT ALLOWED ? Flaming and personal attacks are verbotten. The list rules are pretty specific - you'll get a copy in the welcome message when you subscribe. Remember, this is primarily a list of folks who are pretty much in Newman's corner, so raving attacks and flames will get you yelled at pretty quick. Healthy skepticism (tempered with honest curiosity) is quite acceptable ---- after all, what Newman is saying is quite a bit unusual to anyone schooled in standard physics and engineering. Subscribing to Newman-L ----------------------- Send e-mail to LISTSERV@EMACHINE.COM. In the body of the message, put your subscription requests as SUBSCRIBE NEWMAN-L Examples: subscribe NEWMAN-L subscribe NEWMAN-L Pete Nelson <-- your real name [optional] You will be sent a subscription confirmation message with instructions on posting to the list and other helpful information, including a list of all archived materials available from The Energy Machine Information System via Email FTP or by dialing direct at 504-734-0526. UPDATES: Check out website: http://www.angelfire.com/pg8/Newman/index.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 12:43:33 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA20541; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:29:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199609101928.PAA18194@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Question To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:28:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"qUcjL2.0.s05.D6SDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/96 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: HI, My name is Andrew Cantino. I got off this list for some time, now I'm back. I have a question for anyone who will answer it: Where can I find out how to make a Van De Graph generator. I would like to make a static generator so I can experament with high energy expariments. Thanks, Andrew Cantino From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 12:54:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA24240; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:45:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199609101930.PAA18317@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: laser To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:30:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"MUxaA.0.bw5.ELSDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/97 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Can anyone tell me why I could not use a laser to bring lightning down from a storm cloud? If i sent a beam up to a cloud, would it not ionize the air and make a trail for lightning? This could be a very good source of energy. Please let me know what you think, and if you have hearn about this in the past. Andrew From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 14:07:22 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id NAA10320; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 13:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 13:52:27 -0700 (PDT) From: MMcCoy@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com (McCoy, Mark) To: ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu (Andrew Cantino), freenrg-L@eskimo.com (freenrg-L) Message-Id: <1996Sep10.154600.1650.293929@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:57:24 GMT Subject: RE: laser Resent-Message-ID: <"SQUsV3.0.9X2.AKTDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/98 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Andrew! What an interesting idea! I'll bet it's like getting a drink from a firehose, though! Better get some serious jumper cables! I'd like to hear the results if you choose to try the experiment. Best of luck (and stand back!) Mark McCoy mmccoy@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com ---------- From: Andrew Cantino To: freenrg-L Subject: laser Date: Tuesday, September 10, 1996 3:21PM Can anyone tell me why I could not use a laser to bring lightning down from a storm cloud? If i sent a beam up to a cloud, would it not ionize the air and make a trail for lightning? This could be a very good source of energy. Please let me know what you think, and if you have hearn about this in the past. Andrew From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 15:01:20 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA22134; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:41:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Ascot@mailhost.world.net Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 07:42:14 PDT Subject: RE: Resonant freq of water To: Robert Brown , freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-MAILER: Chameleon V0.05, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wnydU1.0.iP5.I2UDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/99 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Robert, In answer to your question, .......... NO !!!! ......... or more specifically , whenever I've asked the same question I usually get the reply ... it's been replicated somewhere (origins vague) Meyer has published the plans (some bits are missing) There doesn't seem to be one all encompassing document that shows from beginning to end how to do it. i.e. Build the Meyer cell. Admittedly, it looks very attractive and even doable. Unfortunately I've ploughed this group before and there just isn't enough information to get something off the ground and secondly no one that I know of (so far ????) has got anything to work. (although there were vague reports about a guy in India ? who'd made a cell from second hand bits and bobs) If anyone can supply *full* operational details (plans, diagrams et al) I'd be the first one down the hardware store making one. Any offers ??????? Regards, Ascot From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 16:18:50 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id QAA11879; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:04:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609102304.SAA14207@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: laser Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"uAU1q3.0.Tv2.eHVDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >Hi Andrew! > >What an interesting idea! I'll bet it's like getting a drink from a >firehose, though! Better get some serious jumper cables! > >I'd like to hear the results if you choose to try the experiment. > >Best of luck (and stand back!) > >Mark McCoy >mmccoy@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com > ---------- >From: Andrew Cantino >To: freenrg-L >Subject: laser >Date: Tuesday, September 10, 1996 3:21PM > >Can anyone tell me why I could not use a laser to bring lightning down >from a storm cloud? If i sent a beam up to a cloud, would it not ionize >the air and make a trail for lightning? This could be a very good source >of energy. > >Please let me know what you think, and if you have hearn about this in the >past. > >Andrew There are some weather researchers who draw lightning by firing up small rockets with several thousand feet of fine (#40?) wire attached. The lightning flashes down the wire. I don't think a laser would ionize the air but rather would lose its energy in absorption by water vapor. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 17:39:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA29904; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:28:05 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Resent-Message-ID: <"KzlDD.0.4J7.zUWDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: *** NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS *** Route 1, Box 52 * Lucedale, MS 39452 * (601) 947-7147 email: josephnewman@earthlink.net ************************************************************************** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ************************************************************************** NEWS CONFERENCE & DEMONSTRATION TO BE HELD: --- OIL OBSOLETE AS AN ENERGY SOURCE --- *THEFT* OF THE TECHNOLOGY IS NOW A *FACT*! Absolute Proof of the Operability of the Energy Machine of Joseph Newman ANNOUNCING *LEGAL ACTION* TAKEN AGAINST PERPETRATORS The revolutionary, patented ideas of Joseph Newman have been stolen by certain individuals who have been closely associated with him. This theft has been effected through these individuals' collaboration with specific corporations with whom they were associated. Commercial products utilizing Joseph Newman's Ideas have been and are now being produced and have been sold worldwide. These commercial products have been brought into the marketplace in a controlled manner that has been designed to attract minimum attention. The intent of these corporations engaged in this theft is to quietly capture the worldwide market with these products, but not to attract attention that their success is a result of the THEFT of Joseph Newman's Energy Machine Technology and their income from this stolen technology exceeds hundreds of millions of dollars. A lawsuit initiated by inventor Joseph Newman against the theft by these individuals/corporations of his life's work is now being brought. ********************************************************************** * * * A NEWS CONFERENCE AND DEMONSTRATION REGARDING THIS THEFT AND * * PROOF THAT OIL WILL SOON BE OBSOLETE AS AN ENERGY SOURCE * * WILL BE HELD ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 1996 * * 11:00AM * * * * ALABAMA BALLROOM -- ADAMS MARK HOTEL * * 64 SOUTH WATER STREET, MOBILE, ALABAMA * * 1-800-444-ADAM * * * * [Out-of-town visitors: ask for Special Room Rate for * * Newman Energy Demonstration Attendees] * * * * THE PUBLIC IS INVITED. * * THE SPECIFIC NAMES OF THE COMPANIES AND THE INDIVIDUALS * * WHO HAVE ENGAGED IN THIS THEFT AS WELL AS SAMPLES OF THE * * PRODUCTS USING JOSEPH NEWMAN'S IDEAS WILL BE PROVIDED * * AND DEMONSTRATED. * * * * You will be SHOCKED at the OUTRIGHT THEFT and COVER-UP * * PERPETRATED BY THESE CORPORATIONS! * * * ********************************************************************** The upside is that the Disclosure of this theft will accelerate the honest production of Joseph Newman's Technology throughout all aspects of our civilization. This very theft only serves to underscore the viability of this revolutionary technology. As a result, humanity --- rather than just a few greedy individuals and corporations --- will be served just as Joseph Newman has given his life for over the past thirty years. COME AND BE A PART OF HISTORY BEING MADE! --- Joseph Westley Newman ______________________________________________________________________ For more information contact: Joseph W. Newman, (601) 947-7147 / PR Office (504) 524-3063 Email: josephnewman@earthlink.net Website: http://www.angelfire.com/pg8/Newman/index.html ______________________________________________________________________ ********************************************************************** ************ "AN INVENTION WHOSE TIME HAS COME" ************ "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." --- MAX PLANCK ********************************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 18:42:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA16666; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:40:34 -0800 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Question Resent-Message-ID: <"u8o9W2.0.E44.6UXDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 3:28 PM 9/10/96, Andrew Cantino wrote: >HI, > My name is Andrew Cantino. I got off this list for some time, now I'm >back. I have a question for anyone who will answer it: > > Where can I find out how to make a Van De Graph generator. > I would like to make a static generator so I can experament with high > energy expariments. > > >Thanks, > Andrew Cantino For starters check out Bill Beaty's van de Graff page: Also, there was a nice 200,000 V kit written up in the Spring 1994 Popular Electronics Hobbyists Handbook. It was $137.75 from Analytical Scientific, POB 198, Helotes TX 78023, 210-684-7373. If you post that question to sci.electronics you'll probably get some other kit recommendations, some cheaper. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 10 21:32:31 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA24792; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 22:30:16 -0600 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960910211726.2c4f1ca4@holly.colostate.edu> X-Sender: trex@holly.colostate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Thomas Rice Subject: Re: Question Resent-Message-ID: <"opX1d.0.F36.s1aDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:40 PM 9/10/96 -0800, you wrote: >At 3:28 PM 9/10/96, Andrew Cantino wrote: >>HI, >> My name is Andrew Cantino. I got off this list for some time, now I'm >>back. I have a question for anyone who will answer it: >> >> Where can I find out how to make a Van De Graph generator. >> I would like to make a static generator so I can experament with high >> energy expariments. >> >> >>Thanks, >> Andrew Cantino Hello, Check your local library or bookstore for a copy of Gordon McComb's Gadgeteer's Goldmine!, published by McGraw Hill. For a rank, (and I do mean rank!) novice like me, it was a small goldmine of information. I saved enough money to pay for the book with the first project. Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 00:03:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA21539; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 00:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 23:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609110657.XAA10117@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: RE: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"x6Jmh1.0.OG5.YFcDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:41:40 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: [snip] >There doesn't seem to be one all encompassing document that shows >from beginning to end how to do it. i.e. Build the Meyer cell. Have you seen or heard of Brown's Gas (BG) electrolyzer and the the complete "how to build" a unit by George Wiseman from the Int'l Tesla Society (ITS) called "Brown' Gas, Book 1" and "Brown's Gas, Book 2"? From what I've read on Meyer's work on powering a car, BG is reported to powering a car and can also be used for the following applications: underwater cutting, welding, brazing, soldering, tungsten cutting, nuclear waste disposal, implosion. Currently BG electrolyzers are commercially available, as welders, made in China, priced from $1,200 to $10,000. I've been on the vortex-L discussion group and there is an archive for those interested in additional info from several members on electrolyzer technology from Brown and Meyer. George did an ITS workshop this last July on his Brown's Gas research (available on video) showing Jimmy Reed's van powered on BG (idling for 45 sec.) from Jimmy's electrolyzer he made from the info in George's books. They are currently building a larger unit to power a car for driving conditions. I hope this is of help and I apologize if I repeated any of this info to this group. Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 06:11:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id GAA22114 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:11:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: lgarrett@txdirect.net Wed Sep 11 06:11:13 1996 Received: from legend.txdirect.net (root@legend.txdirect.net [204.57.120.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA22089 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dt02-15.txdirect.net (dt02-15.txdirect.net [204.57.92.209]) by legend.txdirect.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA28113 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:11:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3236D6D8.120C@txdirect.net> Old-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:12:24 -0700 From: lgarrett X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Two places at once Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------31436D79502A" X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------31436D79502A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is an intersting article I found in the N.Y. Times archives May 28 1996 http://www.nytimes.com/web/docsroot/comment/atom-sci Rod Mena Natalia Tex. --------------31436D79502A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="atom-sci" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="atom-sci" Not Found

Not Found

The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it. --------------31436D79502A-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 06:38:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id GAA25038; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:24:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199609111324.JAA06251@mail.inforamp.net> X-Sender: quinney@inforamp.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Quinney Subject: RE: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"5VVfG2.0.676.txhDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:57 PM 9/10/96 -0700, you wrote: > >I've been on the vortex-L discussion group and there is an archive for those >interested in additional info from several members on electrolyzer >technology from Brown and Meyer. > >Michael Randall Michael, can you give us newbies the address (and the archive #)?? Sounds like a good site. Colin Quinney From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 10:13:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA07160; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 09:13:46 MDT From: "Mary Carleton" Subject: Re: Question To: "Andrew Cantino" , freenrg-L@eskimo.com X-Mailer: VersaTerm Link v1.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"_RIOg.0.il1.4YkDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Andrew, Lindsay Publications has a small book on building Wimshurst(sp) generators that I think also covered Van De Graph as well. I saw it in a bookstore in Portland Oregon called Powell's Technical Books. They have an 800# (800 225-6911) which I can call from WA state so chances are good it's a national number. Their staff is willing to answer questions. Tell them that it's in their Tesla/Lost Sciences rack. You can also reach them thru one of the following internet methods: www.technical.powells.portland.or.us gopher.technical.powells.portland.or.us corp@technical.powells.portland.or.us Mary C. >HI, > My name is Andrew Cantino. I got off this list for some time, now I'm >back. I have a question for anyone who will answer it: > > Where can I find out how to make a Van De Graph generator. > I would like to make a static generator so I can experament with high > energy expariments. > > >Thanks, > Andrew Cantino > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 18:09:15 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA07156 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: ahecht@sigma.sax.de Wed Sep 11 18:08:43 1996 Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA07102 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id DAA26710 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:03:07 +0200 Received: from sigma.sax.de (uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id DAA10564 for freenrg-l@eskimo.com; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:03:07 +0200 Received: by sigma.sax.de (CrossPoint v3.02 R/B9504); 12 Sep 1996 02:30:01 +0200 Old-Date: 12 Sep 1996 00:28:00 +0200 From: ahecht@sigma.sax.de (Andreas Hecht) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <6GhfecmX17B@sigma.sax.de> In-Reply-To: <902DC74BF@resource.bell.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water X-Mailer: XP v3.02 R/B9504 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: private site in germany; member of Individual Network e.V. X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Hi Robert, you wrote: > I was having a look at the Meyer fuel cell on the free energy page. > Has anyone duplicated it? Does anyone know the frequency necessary > for the dc pulse? I assume this will be at the resonant frequency of > water? Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) is about 60 GHz! Another Hi to Ascot! To your problem: > If anyone can supply *full* operational details (plans, diagrams et al) > I'd be the first one down the hardware store making one. May be this will help you: At 'The Mad Scientists Lair' (www.iinet.net.au/~steveb/) you will find a few pages concerning the Meyer Water Fuel Cell (with drawings) and a replication of the device by Dan Danforth. regards, Andreas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ahecht@sigma.sax.de Andreas Hecht Moritzburger Str. 41 +49-(0)3523 63537 voice/fax/(data) D-01640 Coswig ************************************************************************ Visit the _Borderlands of Science_! http://www.sax.de/~stalker/borderland ************************************************************************ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 18:36:07 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA10251; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tampere 'antigravity' (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hbJat3.0._V2.BPsDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 01 Sep 96 11:26:42 EDT From: Chris Tinsley <100433.1541@compuserve.com> Subject: Tampere 'antigravity' Resent-From: vortex-l@eskimo.com Article in Sunday Telegraph (UK), September 1 1996, page 3. BREAKTHROUGH AS SCIENTISTS BEAT GRAVITY. by Robert Matthews and Ian Sample SCIENTISTS in Finland are about to reveal details of the world's first anti-gravity device. Measuring about 12in across, the device is said to reduce significantly the weight of anything suspended over it. The claim -- which has been rigorously examined by scientists, and is due to appear in a physics journal next month -- could spark a technological revolution. By combatting gravity, the most ubiquitous force in the universe, everything from transport to power generation could be transformed. The Sunday Telegraph has learned that Nasa, the American space agency, is taking the claims seriously, and is funding research into how the anti-gravity effect could be turned into a means of flight. The researchers at the Tampere University of Technology in Finland, who discovered the effect, say it could form the heart of a new power source, in which it is used to drive fluids past electricity-generating turbines. Other uses seem limited only by the imagination: Lifts in buildings could be replaced by devices built into the ground. People wanting to go up would simply activate the anti-gravity device -- making themselves weightless -- and with a gentle push ascend to the floor they want. Space-travel would bitcome routine, as all the expense and danger of rocket technology is geared towards combatting the Earth's gravitation pull. By using the devices to raise fluids against gravity, and then conventional gravity to pull them back to earth against electricity-generating turbines, the devices could also revolutionise power generation. According to Dr Eugene Podkletnov, who led the research, the discovery was accidental. It emerged during routine work on so-called "superconductivity", the ability of some materials to lose their electrical resistance at very low temperatures. The team was carrying out tests on a rapidly spinning disc of superconducting ceramic suspended in the magnetic field of three electric coils, all enclosed in a low-temperature vessel called a cryostat. "One of my friends came in and he was smoking his pipe," Dr Podkletnov said. "He put some smoke over the cryostat and we saw that the smoke was going to the ceiling all the time. It was amazing -- we couldn't explain it." Tests showed a small drop in the weight of objects placed over the device, as if it were shielding the object from the effects of gravity - an effect deemed impossible by most scientists. "We thought it might be a mistake," Dr Podkletnov said, "but we have taken every precaution." Yet the bizarre effects persisted. The team found that even the air pressure vertically above the device dropped slightly, with the effect detectable directly above the device on every floor of the laboratory. In recent years, many so-called "anti-gravity" devices have been put forward by both amateur and professional scientists, and all have been scorned by the establishment. What makes this latest claim different is that it has survived intense scrutiny by sceptical, independent experts, and has been accepted for publication by the Journal of Physics-D: Applied Physics, published by Britain's Institute of Physics. Even so, most scientists will not feel comfortable with the idea of anti-gravity until other teams repeat the experiments. Some scientists suspect the anti-gravity effect is a long-sought side-effect of Einstein's general theory of relativity, by which spinning objects can distort gravity. Until now it was thought the effect would be far too small to measure in the laboratory. However, Dr Ning Li, a senior research scientist at the University of Alabama, said that the atoms inside superconductors may magnify the effect enormously. Her research is funded by Nasa's Marshall Space Flight centre at Huntsville, Alabama, and Whitt Brantley, the chief of Advanced Concepts Office there, said: "We're taking a look at it, because if we don't, we'll never know." The Finnish team is already expanding its programme, to see if it can amplify the anti-gravity effect. In its latest experiments, the team has measured a two per cent drop in the weight of objects suspended over the device -and double that if one device is suspended over another. If the team can increase the effect substantially, the commercial implications are enormous. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 18:38:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA10350; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:25:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:24:48 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Yellow LED sensor ( Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"j5XlD2.0.dX2.hPsDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Glenville Sawyer wrote: > The effect disappeared when you placed your HAND between the Source > (T.V) and the sensor, and returned when you moved your hand away, we > tested this for shielding effects etc, but what (ever) we were detecting > from the T.V was stopped (or severely attenuated) by the human Body. Wow! You could be on the track of a new type of radiation. Do you recall whether the "shadow" effect gave a sharp response? I mean, when you waved your hand around, did the meter move slowly up and down as if a fuzzy shadow was falling upon the detector? Or did the reading jump suddenly, as if a sharp-edged shadow was blocking the radiation? On the other hand, if the rest of your circuitry and power supply wasn't perfectly shielded, maybe some other part of the circuit was picking up a signal from the electric field from the TV. Or, if it was a fairly old, large color TV, maybe you just discovered a hyper-sensitive X-ray detector, and your hand was shielding the X-ray source in the TV's HV section. If I were you, I'd definitely try to reproduce the original effect. See if plates of various thickness and composition shield the "beam." If only human bodies do it, then you've stumbled on a "life energy detector" a la Star Trek. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 18:38:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA10132; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:23:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Prometheus game ( Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4GNlQ2.0.6U2.oOsDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Zack Widup wrote: > "Entering research to tap the zero-point energy is playing > what I call the Prometheus game. In mythology, Prometheus gave > fire to man, and for this the Gods punished him for eternity. An > inventor who believes he alone is giving 'free energy' to mankind > is a pawn in this game. If his invention is successful, he will > find himself under attack and ridicule. How can one safely play > and win the game?" > > "The answer lies within your higher self. Ask yourself > the following question: If you were an angel who had the knowledge > to seed the discovery of free energy on planet earth, would you love > this planet and its beings enough to share your gift without any > reward or recognition? If you can answer yes, then you are a master > of the Prometheus game and you will find, as I have, that wonderful, > synchronistic events and experiences accrue that yield inspiration > and guidance. For in actuality you ARE that angel." ... Excellent quote! The "free energy" arena is like no other. The forces arrayed against its development create a set of rules which is very different than those of a mature field where new discoveries are logical extentions of earlier ones. "Free energy" work is more akin to the discovery of flight than to the creation of useful products. If we look at the details of the history of the Wrights, we find that their discovery was ALMOST suppressed. Numerous other inventors were building devices, but they were based on some faulty wing research and none of them worked well. At the same time, mainstream science was sneering at all these obviously ignorant flying machine inventors. Claims of success were met with accusations of hoax and refusal to inspect evidence. The Wrights spent more than a year testing their device in an open field near highways and rail lines, yet the local papers published nothing, refused to send reporters to check the story, and treated the many questioning letters from the public as a nusiance. The Scientific American and NY Herald rejected the Wrights' claims as hoaxes, saying that, if their claims were real, it would already be in all the papers.(!) Scientists turned away, referring to Newcomb's paper which proved that flight was impossible using known power supplies. What broke the barriers? Breaking of secrecy, for one. The Wright's published their early glider designs in a flying-machine inventor's magazine. Numerous hobbyists, mostly in France, started building boxkite-winged machines based on the articles and on their early glider patent, and making straight line flights of many hundreds of feet. The presence of this crude, simple competition forced the Wrights to finally take their plane before the public in France, which caused a worldwide uproar and opened the floodgates. They became famous beyond their wildest dreams, but financially they only did well, and did not attain fabulous riches. I'm fairly convinced that, had the Wright's stayed secretive, pursued riches, and never published, they would have taken their secrets to the grave. The barriers against new discoveries are that strong. Many modern inventors would say that the Wrights made a mistake, they should have kept their secret, and screwed-up mankind didn't deserve to attain flight if inventors are not paid for their work. But this just plays into the hands of the closeminded forces and destroys the dream. The way I see it, there are several options for a free energy inventor: 1. Demand payment before releasing secrets. Attract ridicule and derision. Finally die, safe with the knowledge that no one stole your hard-won discoveries. 2. Demand payment before releasing secrets. Sell your secrets to those who want to prevent their release, or to those whose greed makes them incompetant at developing the ideas. You've got your money, and the world will never benefit from your discovery. 3. Fight for inventor's rights. But this is a losing proposition in regards to your invention, since winning this battle takes more than one lifetime. If you have an amazing discovery yourself, your energies are split, and the conflict of interest may lose you both the fight for rights and the fight to sell your works. Better to go into patent politics fulltime. 4. Release detailed instructions for reproducing your discoveries. But people will mostly ignore you, witness all the patents which now gather dust in the archives. The few who attempt to duplicate your device will most likely make a mistake, fail, and assume that the invention was bogus to begin with. More is needed. Spend all your time developing simple kits which can be built by anyone, which always work, and which demonstrate obvious phenomena which cannot be explained away by skeptics. Then SELL the kits. Write construction articles and get them published in hobbyist magazines. Spread your articles and instructions all over internet. Give personal help to any who try building your devices. Tunnel under the walls of skepticism and collapse them, rather than attacking them at their strongest points as is done in 1, 2, and 3. Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are that good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats. - Howard Aiken .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 21:17:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id VAA14421; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609120409.VAA17169@serbia.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: RE: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"ri4V42.0.EX3.EquDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Michael, can you give us newbies the address (and the archive #)?? Sounds >like a good site. > >Colin Quinney > The archive site is: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wvort.html To subscribe mail to: vortex-L-request@eskimo.com At subject line type: subscribe vortex-l You will then receive a confirmation reply. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 11 23:05:34 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA05621; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609120603.XAA18159@galadriel.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Overunity Electric Motor Resent-Message-ID: <"EU84J.0.kN1.CVwDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I am slowly building a cheap version of the so-called "Magnetic Wankel" that I saw on "http://www.overunity.de/wankel.htm". I'm also going to try to get the original magazine article. The motor makes sense as a motor. That is I can see how it would produce torque as it uses electricity. The question is how much electricity will it use. In referance to the 45HP prototype it says, "The multipoint distributor gives six power impulses per revolution...", and a little math says that if the 45HP electric motor runs on 24VDC and is 100% effecient then the current draw would be over 1,500 amps. So unless the facts put forth in the article are grossly mis-stated then a multipoint distributer which can't handle anything close to 1,500 amps was driving a 45HP motor at WAY!! over 100% efficiency. The battery pack would have to be almost 400 volts to get the average current draw under 100 amps. And I don't know of any contacts that can handle switching 33kva 90 times a second. ( The article said that the motor ran at 5400 RPM. ) If anyone is interested, I do have a theory to explain its possible overunity operation. But for now I will get on with building it. My theory is purely mechanical, no fancy math or fancy speculation. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /**********************************************************/ /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ /**********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 03:02:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id DAA05839; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 03:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3238C6E1.558E@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:28:49 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Yellow LED .. etc etc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vAhPd3.0.3R1.wzzDo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: O.k I found it folks !!! - yes amongst what is laughingly called my "office" and the 2-3 foot high stacks of papers, research notes and general flotsam and jetsam (sic) I found the basic circuit that we used in the original tests, also the 1.5 inch square P.C.B with most of the stuff still attached ( switches and speaker "ratted" for another project .. but ) ... I will try to scan in the circuit diagram and add some other notes that may help others to "have a go at it". Bill B suggests that it might be X-ray radiation - I am inclined to agree - although we did use modern Monitors / T.V's where the X-R Rad' should have been very low, might be interesting to check this effect if placed in the path of a V-F display. The original circuit operated from a humble 9 volt battery, so I discounted (rightly or wrongly) supply variations ((of course provided a D.C supply is decoupled correctly (is there a genuine CORRECT method )- anyway - provided you have tried to reduce any effect that might be caused by other parts of the circuit [the whole purpose of decoupling] then these effects should be negligible )) - must be a programmer - just noted that I used double parenthesis .. Ah well old programmers don't die, they just stuck in a GOTO loop ! Should have the circuit up in the next 3-4 days. Bye now. -- Best regards, Glen Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com MID-FM 87.6 Kapunda S.A (085) 66-3600 (Business Hrs ONLY) Outback Communications (085) 66-3236 (Business Hrs ONLY) Lighting, Audio and Special Effects Custom Software development (DOS & Windows) Call NOW ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 07:52:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id HAA10699; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:46:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 06:50:26 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Yellow LED - some thoughts for experiments Resent-Message-ID: <"nJ-0f2.0.-c2.w82Eo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: An experiment has just occurred to me for Glenville Sawyer's yellow LED gadget. Suppose the gadget responds to yellow light, maybe especially of oscillating luminoscity, of a very specific frequency - like the wavelength given off by the yellow phosphors of a color TV screen. Maybe to some extent the same wavelength is given off by B/W TV phosphors. The experiment idea is to try different filters, or even a prism to make a kind of spectrometer, to isolate the effect of various colors. The LED might respond in the UV or infra-red band as well. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 13:42:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id MAA01820; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 12:46:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199609121922.PAA17944@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Re: laser (fwd) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:22:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"3zyDj3.0.JS.QY6Eo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A I would love to talk about this subject. Andrew > > I had this idea a while back, but lost my internet access, and the > discussion along with it. Basically I had theorized that a blunheim > LASER (nitrogen beam caused by a travelling wave discharge) would be > perfect, as it relies on the ionization of atmospheric nitrogen for its > operation, and would be readily absorbed by atmospheric gases. > > By creating a conductive pat, it could be used to attract lightning very > easily. An additional part of my theory, is that the clouds and the > ground form a giant capacitor, and that the charge could be slowly bled > off, rather than using lightning to discharge it abruptly. > > Then there were the storage options...a thermal and solar array would > probably work...maybe even a faraday cage to trap the RF portion of the > lightning bolt, and channel it as electrical energy. > > The only real concern I had, was how much *actual* power oculd be > delivered by a lightning bolt. While it delivers a huge amount of power > in a very short amount of time, spread out over even an hour, there may > not be much power. However, there is enough energy to melt sand into > glass, etc...so thermal energy would be significant...if stored and used > to make steam for a turbine, perhaps (this has to be feasible with > today's materials, and super capacitors are not a reality) it would work > pretty well. > > I'd love to continue this discussion with a few people who were > interested in this subject...if you're among them, let's start up a > discussion. > > -- Chuck Knight > > On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Andrew Cantino wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me why I could not use a laser to bring lightning down > > from a storm cloud? If i sent a beam up to a cloud, would it not ionize > > the air and make a trail for lightning? This could be a very good source > > of energy. > > > > Please let me know what you think, and if you have hearn about this in the > > past. > > > > Andrew > > > > > > -- ______ __ /\ _ \ /\ \ \ \ \L\ \ ___ \_\ \ _ __ __ __ __ __ \ \ __ \ /' _ `\ /'_` \/\`'__\/'__`\/\ \/\ \/\ \ \ \ \/\ \/\ \/\ \/\ \L\ \ \ \//\ __/\ \ \_/ \_/ \ \ \_\ \_\ \_\ \_\ \___,_\ \_\\ \____\\ \___x___/' \/_/\/_/\/_/\/_/\/__,_ /\/_/ \/____/ \/__//__/ ____ __ /\ _`\ /\ \__ __ \ \ \/\_\ __ ___\ \ ,_\/\_\ ___ ___ \ \ \/_/_ /'__`\ /' _ `\ \ \/\/\ \ /' _ `\ / __`\ \ \ \L\ \/\ \L\.\_/\ \/\ \ \ \_\ \ \/\ \/\ \/\ \L\ \ \ \____/\ \__/.\_\ \_\ \_\ \__\\ \_\ \_\ \_\ \____/ \/___/ \/__/\/_/\/_/\/_/\/__/ \/_/\/_/\/_/\/___/ Home page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/homepage.html E-Mail: ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 14:41:38 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id OAA04988; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: MMcCoy@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com (McCoy, Mark) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (freenrg-l), josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Message-Id: <1996Sep12.153617.1650.297567@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 15:37:36 GMT Subject: RE: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Resent-Message-ID: <"R_Xcr2.0.qD1.ch7Eo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: My curiosity is consuming me! I've racked my brain trying to figure out what it is that could have been slipped in under our very noses that incorporates Newman's ideas. (It's certainly not my electric razor. The darn thing won't hold a charge for more than 3 days!) How about a little news leak here for those of us that can't get to Mobile, or at least a little bit of wild speculation! Comments? Accusations? Future history is being written as we speak! An event as dramatic as the revelation of 30 years of work being stolen by heinous greedy industrialists needs at least a week's worth of wild, inaccurate rumors to make it fun. Any theories out there? I figure this is pretty important. Conference rooms at the Adam's Mark aren't exactly cheap. I'm on the edge of my seat! Mark McCoy mmccoy@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com ---------- From: Evan Soule To: freenrg-l Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Date: Tuesday, September 10, 1996 8:11PM *** NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS *** Route 1, Box 52 * Lucedale, MS 39452 * (601) 947-7147 email: josephnewman@earthlink.net ************************************************************************** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ************************************************************************** NEWS CONFERENCE & DEMONSTRATION TO BE HELD: --- OIL OBSOLETE AS AN ENERGY SOURCE --- *THEFT* OF THE TECHNOLOGY IS NOW A *FACT*! Absolute Proof of the Operability of the Energy Machine of Joseph Newman ANNOUNCING *LEGAL ACTION* TAKEN AGAINST PERPETRATORS The revolutionary, patented ideas of Joseph Newman have been stolen by certain individuals who have been closely associated with him. This theft has been effected through these individuals' collaboration with specific corporations with whom they were associated. Commercial products utilizing Joseph Newman's Ideas have been and are now being produced and have been sold worldwide. These commercial products have been brought into the marketplace in a controlled manner that has been designed to attract minimum attention. The intent of these corporations engaged in this theft is to quietly capture the worldwide market with these products, but not to attract attention that their success is a result of the THEFT of Joseph Newman's Energy Machine Technology and their income from this stolen technology exceeds hundreds of millions of dollars. A lawsuit initiated by inventor Joseph Newman against the theft by these individuals/corporations of his life's work is now being brought. ********************************************************************** * * * A NEWS CONFERENCE AND DEMONSTRATION REGARDING THIS THEFT AND * * PROOF THAT OIL WILL SOON BE OBSOLETE AS AN ENERGY SOURCE * * WILL BE HELD ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 1996 * * 11:00AM * * * * ALABAMA BALLROOM -- ADAMS MARK HOTEL * * 64 SOUTH WATER STREET, MOBILE, ALABAMA * * 1-800-444-ADAM * * * * [Out-of-town visitors: ask for Special Room Rate for * * Newman Energy Demonstration Attendees] * * * * THE PUBLIC IS INVITED. * * THE SPECIFIC NAMES OF THE COMPANIES AND THE INDIVIDUALS * * WHO HAVE ENGAGED IN THIS THEFT AS WELL AS SAMPLES OF THE * * PRODUCTS USING JOSEPH NEWMAN'S IDEAS WILL BE PROVIDED * * AND DEMONSTRATED. * * * * You will be SHOCKED at the OUTRIGHT THEFT and COVER-UP * * PERPETRATED BY THESE CORPORATIONS! * * * ********************************************************************** The upside is that the Disclosure of this theft will accelerate the honest production of Joseph Newman's Technology throughout all aspects of our civilization. This very theft only serves to underscore the viability of this revolutionary technology. As a result, humanity --- rather than just a few greedy individuals and corporations --- will be served just as Joseph Newman has given his life for over the past thirty years. COME AND BE A PART OF HISTORY BEING MADE! --- Joseph Westley Newman ______________________________________________________________________ For more information contact: Joseph W. Newman, (601) 947-7147 / PR Office (504) 524-3063 Email: josephnewman@earthlink.net Website: http://www.angelfire.com/pg8/Newman/index.html ______________________________________________________________________ ********************************************************************** ************ "AN INVENTION WHOSE TIME HAS COME" ************ "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." --- MAX PLANCK ********************************************************************** From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 20:28:26 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id TAA13097; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3239B119.2A13@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:08:09 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: Radiation detector .. URL .. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MfjQ52.0.TC3.cgCEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Oops ... had not realised that the attachment might not make it onto the list - sorry about that. if you GOTO ... http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer/welcome.html You will find a link to the "Physics" page - there is only 1 page and this provides access to download the RADTECT1 circuit and also you can view a text file of notes. Look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Glen Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com MID-FM 87.6 Kapunda S.A (085) 66-3600 (Business Hrs ONLY) Outback Communications (085) 66-3236 (Business Hrs ONLY) Lighting, Audio and Special Effects Custom Software development (DOS & Windows) Call NOW ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 21:13:56 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id UAA00438; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609130400.VAA05684@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: tesla coil Resent-Message-ID: <"w057v1.0.i6.imDEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To anyone: I'm working on a solid state tesla coil and I need to know what the >effect is when you wind the primary and the secondary, [which are both >center tapped] starting from the center with both wires and going in >opposite directions from the center outward, on both the primary and the >secondary, or would it work better to wind it in the normal fashion, I'm trying to get the most amperage out with the least in. >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 12 23:12:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA16214; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 23:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609130607.XAA19347@galadriel.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Re: Overunity Electric Motor Resent-Message-ID: <"TePwY1.0.Bz3.ieFEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >On Wed, 11 Sep 1996, Scott Becker wrote: > >> I am slowly building a cheap version of the so-called "Magnetic Wankel" >> that I saw on "http://www.overunity.de/wankel.htm". I'm also going to >> try to get the original magazine article. >> >> The motor makes sense as a motor. That is I can see how it would produce >> torque as it uses electricity. The question is how much electricity will >> it use. >> >> In referance to the 45HP prototype it says, "The multipoint distributor >> gives six power impulses per revolution...", and a little math says that if >> the 45HP >> electric motor runs on 24VDC and is 100% effecient then the current draw would >> be over 1,500 amps. So unless the facts put forth in the article are grossly >> mis-stated then a multipoint distributer which can't handle anything close to >> 1,500 amps was driving a 45HP motor at WAY!! over 100% efficiency. >> >> The battery pack would have to be almost 400 volts to get the average current >> draw under 100 amps. And I don't know of any contacts that can handle >> switching 33kva 90 times a second. ( The article said that the motor ran at >> 5400 RPM. ) >> >> If anyone is interested, I do have a theory to explain its possible overunity >> operation. But for now I will get on with building it. My theory is purely >> mechanical, no fancy math or fancy speculation. >> >> Scott Becker >> skot@compumedia.com >> >> >> /**********************************************************/ >> /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ >> /**********************************************************/ >> >> > Chuck Knight said: >How are you doing it? I was thinking about using the cheap magnets from >Radio Shack (since they're SO cheap) and seeing if it works. I also have >a VERY strong pair of magnets I could use for rotors, but it'd be weird. >What are you using to define the spiral? I never was that good at >constructing models... > >Stefan Hartmann said: >Please let me know. [ your theory ] By the time I had gathered all the magnets I could find in my junk and tried different combinations I settled on an attempt that will be very simple. I have a piece of speaker magnet that will effectively act as a bar magnet with a pole on each face. This will be mounted vertically next to the rotor. And on the rotor I will mount a single curved magnet, curved side out, that came from a PM DC motor. (( _-------_ (((( <- pulsed electromagnet - - (((( - rotor * ** - (*) * ** - * ** -_ _- ** <- stationary magnet ------- ^ ** ^rotor magnet This is quite a departure from the original design and a very simple setup but I think that since this design doesn't waste any electricity creating steady fields that a tight layout will not be required to get good results. In fact if I can get 60% efficiency from such a crude setup then refinements would almost definately lead to overunity operation. This is not my idea of a good design for this motor it is just what I can do with the materials at hand for the first round of prototyping. The magnets I'm using are quite weak so a small and very short pulse in the electromagnet should be all that's required to run it. I'm going to try to get an optical sensor to run the electromagnet so that the pulse will be very clean and sharp. I think that the 45HP motor shown in the article was probably in the range of 400% to 1000% efficient if the information was correct. And now my theory as to why it might be possible for this design to operate at overunity... If the design called for an electromagnet on the rotor which was powered all the time except while it was approching the start of the gap, the motor would probably get 80% like other motors. So this design logically would be overunity. But I kept thinking because this had too many probably's in it. So the question is, "How would it take less power to get the rotor over the hump then was produced on the rest of the rotation?" What I came up with, I think works as an explaination. A horseshoe magnet is stronger than a bar magnet of the same type and weight because the field has a more direct route between the poles. Or in other words a field that is helped by another field that is working with it actually makes the field in both magnets stronger. The opposite is also true. So when the electromagnet is on in the wankel motor, there are three of the some poles facing each other and they are weakening each other so that the electromagnet doesn't have to fight against the full force of the permanent magnets, just part of it. And as the electromagnet is turned off and the gap starts to widen the PMs regain their full field and the torque picks up. I'll keep you posted on my progress as I get the thing working. By the way, It appears that the reply button on everybodys mail sends the reply directly to the original sender instead of to the freenrg-l list. The two responses I received about my post appear to have been sent directly to me. This may explain why the list has seemed dead for the last few months. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /**********************************************************/ /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ /**********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 00:44:49 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id AAA24284; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <323B3D17.2E38@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:17:43 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: RADTECT Image - FIXED !!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7GVIU.0.Dx5.U8cEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks to my work associate Rik of "Rik's Trainers & Writers" a "New - Improved" Copy of the circuit is now up at the site. ( Thanks Rik ). Apologies to those that tried and could not read the "fine print" You WILL be able to now ! at .. http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer File size ( .ZIP ) = 20K (approx') -- Best regards, Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com email #3: wicen@hotmail.com Emergency Amateur radio communications Amateur Radio operators may try vk5zcf@vk5lz.#adl.#sa.aus.oc (this will NOT work from the Internet)! Pages are at .. http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer/welcome.html MID-FM 87.6 +61 85 663600 , Outback Communications +61 85 663236 (Business Hrs phone calls ONLY) Lighting, Audio, Special Effects & Custom Software development ( for both DOS & Windows ) Call NOW ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 01:46:07 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id BAA10438; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:45:27 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 03:00:57 PST Subject: 'Perpetual' solar panel Message-ID: <19960915.030059.5399.2.cprog@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4,7-8 From: cprog@juno.com (Custom Programming) Resent-Message-ID: <"PHHxt1.0.-Y2.a2dEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello, I have recently subscribed and being new to the 'alternative energy' discussion, would like to ask a question (hope I'm not off topic). Here goes.. lets say I have a solar panel hooked up to run a light bulb.... couldn't I let the 'light' from the lightbulb. . .power the solar panel. . .which powers the lightbulb. . . (kind of like in an endless loop). . . is such a thing possible? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 07:54:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id HAA27166; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 07:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:03:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609141403.JAA03061@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: 'Perpetual' solar panel Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"cZiaE.0.Ge6.fHiEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >Hello, I have recently subscribed and being new to the 'alternative >energy' discussion, would like to ask a question (hope I'm not off >topic). >Here goes.. >lets say I have a solar panel hooked up to run a light bulb.... >couldn't I let the 'light' from the lightbulb. . .power the solar panel. >. .which powers the lightbulb. . . (kind of like in an endless loop). . >. is such a thing possible? > > Well, solar panels are terribly inefficient (I don't know what they're up to these days ... 10% at best?). And it would be difficult to get ALL the light from the bulb onto the panels. Then there's heat losses. Oh well, back to the drawing panel ... :-) Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 07:54:53 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id SAA14044; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <323A66DC.13E9@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:03:40 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Circuit quality - LACK OF !! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UCEOu2.0.JR3.TUWEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Yes I am aware that the RADTECT1.GIF circuit is of ( um need a polite word for it ... ) POOR will do quality, there is now a disclaimer to that effect on the page. it is about a 5th generation p-copy on a crumpled sheet of paper ( fallen dreams always end up that way ) ! As soon as time is available I will CAD up a higher quality version which you can d-load, Until then I gotta go out and try an earn a few bucks ... so please bear with me for a few days more. Of course - you could always check your local library for the ISBN that is listed in the .TXT file. Anyway - to quote a popular?? Australian Commercial .. " It Won't happen overnight - But it WILL Happen " See you all again soon. Best regards, Glen Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com MID-FM 87.6 Kapunda S.A (085) 66-3600 (Business Hrs ONLY) Outback Communications (085) 66-3236 (Business Hrs ONLY) Lighting, Audio and Special Effects Custom Software development (DOS & Windows) Call NOW ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 08:28:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id RAA10314; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: 14 Sep 1996 00:48:00 +0200 From: freenrg_list@sigma.sax.de (Andreas Hecht) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <6GpzWQtPL_B@sigma.sax.de> Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water X-Mailer: XP v3.02 R/B9504 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: private site in germany; member of Individual Network e.V. Resent-Message-ID: <"RCTyB3.0.-W2.X7WEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Robert, you wrote: > I was having a look at the Meyer fuel cell on the free energy page. > Has anyone duplicated it? Does anyone know the frequency necessary > for the dc pulse? I assume this will be at the resonant frequency of > water? Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) is about 60 GHz! Another Hi to Ascot! To your problem: > If anyone can supply *full* operational details (plans, diagrams et al) > I'd be the first one down the hardware store making one. May be this will help you: At 'The Mad Scientists Lair' (www.iinet.net.au/~steveb/) you will find a few pages concerning the Meyer Water Fuel Cell (with drawings) and a replication of the device by Dan Danforth. regards, Andreas ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ahecht@sigma.sax.de Andreas Hecht Moritzburger Str. 41 +49-(0)3523 63537 voice/fax/(data) D-01640 Coswig ************************************************************************ Visit the _Borderlands of Science_! http://www.sax.de/~stalker/borderland ************************************************************************ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 10:43:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id KAA28361; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:31:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:31:31 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 09:53:20 PST Subject: Re: 'Perpetual' solar panel Message-ID: <19960914.131610.16223.1.cmannel@juno.com> References: <19960915.030059.5399.2.cprog@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-13,15 From: cmannel@juno.com (Chet L. Mannel) Resent-Message-ID: <"cMBcm2.0.1x6.pikEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 03:00:57 PST cprog@juno.com (Custom Programming) writes: >Hello, I have recently subscribed and being new to the 'alternative >energy' discussion, would like to ask a question (hope I'm not off >topic). >Here goes.. >lets say I have a solar panel hooked up to run a light bulb.... >couldn't I let the 'light' from the lightbulb. . .power the solar >panel. . .which powers the lightbulb. . . (kind of like in an endless >loop). . . is such a thing possible? > Have you ever put your finger on a lit incandescent bulb. Notice all the loss due to heat? Does this answer your question? Chet Mannel From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 13:24:01 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id GAA16163; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 06:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 06:13:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 05:18:07 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Yellow LED .. etc etc Resent-Message-ID: <"YRI1L3.0.Qy3.2o0Eo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 7:28 PM 9/12/96, Glenville Sawyer wrote: >O.k I found it folks !!! [snip] > Should have the circuit up in the next 3-4 days. [snip] > Glenville T. Sawyer Any chance you could you post a parts list? Especiallly the op-amp and LED. I live in rural Alaska (outside Palmer) and make the trip to Anchorage (where the only local electronics parts supplier is) infrequently, but hope to go tomorrow for other reasons. Also, I am wondering about your yellow LED, if maybe the effect is manufacturer specific (that would be OK), or even batch specific (ugh!). Do you have any suggestions as to where to mail order parts? The local supplier (Frigid North Electronics) has almost exclusively NTE parts. What do you think about putting the LED on the end of a coaxial cable to make a kind of probe, and isolate it from the rest of the circuit? Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 13:46:07 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id NAA04167; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: 14 Sep 96 16:32:45 EDT From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water Message-ID: <960914203244_76216.2421_HHB35-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Kzzs21.0.v01.sRnEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Andreas wrote: > Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) > is about 60 GHz! That's about six octaves away from about 1mhz. Abruptness or fast rise time in some powerful component on a lower harmonic of the target frequency might begin to transfer transfer a little energy to things resonant to that higher frequency. Square wave oscillators and so forth usually aren't anywhere near so crisp in rise or fall, but sparks and similar transients have power components all over the spectrum. Almost all the power sloshing around at the lower frequencies is lost though, and the Q is low. But if there's a nice package of energy being opened up as a result of the tickling that's occuring at the high end, perhaps helped by some self-exciting or other non-linear effect, maybe it works out to an excess of output power over input to the system if enough of that hidden energy is released as a result. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 14:40:55 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id OAA15617; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: George Elston To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water In-Reply-To: <960914203244_76216.2421_HHB35-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uhvt-2.0.tp3.F1oEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Andreas wrote: > > > Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) > > is about 60 GHz! > I found this at the SETI site: http://altair.syr.edu:2024/SETI and I keep it on hand as a reference on the "resonant frequency of water". George gelston@gate.net "If we believe that water will be essential for most other forms of life as well as for our own, then we may find merit in the suggestion made by the physicist Bernard Oliver. Since each molecule of water (H2O) consists of a hydrogen atom (H) plus a molecule of OH, Oliver pointed to the frequency band between 1420 MHz and 1721 MHz as the most likely channel for interstellar communication. OH molecules produce photons at a series of frequencies1612, 1665, 1667, and 1721 MHzby an emission process similar to that for hydrogen atoms. The band of frequencies characteristic of photon emission from OH molecules forms a guidepost in the realm of photon frequencies, just as the 1420-MHz frequency of hydrogen-atom emission forms another still more striking marker. If the importance of water occupies a large place in the consciousness of all life forms, then from the fact that H + OH = water, we might indeed find that the range of frequencies between 1420 MHz and 1721 MHz specifies the galactic radio dialthe frequency domain where interstellar communication occurs. Bernard Oliver calls this gap the "water hole": the place (in photon frequency) where galactic civilizations meet. (Note that water molecules by themselves emit a complex pattern of radio waves, with no dominant frequency or set of frequencies.)" From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 14 17:56:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id HAA18381; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 96 22:27:29 -0700 From: Mpower Organization: Mpower Consultants X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22KIT (Windows; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Genuine Free-Energy Design and Theory! References: <519id7$jaf@news.global2000.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <19960913142256.AAA5241@LOCALNAME> Resent-Message-ID: <"dvprD3.0.0V4.HwMEo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: and here's another one, folks: (anyone seen/heard about this one ?) roamer@global2000.net (Roamer) wrote: > >First, here's a letter that George recently received pertaining to his book, >"High Voltage and Free Energy Devices". > >"George, I must comment, this publication is excellent! I am ordering another > [copy of your] book for my grandfather." > Clyde T. L. > Tulsa, OK > > This book, written by experimenter George Moonhie, shows the absolute >simplicity of free energy production. The book includes a complete explanation >of some simple electrical principles. > VERY SIMPLE electrical circuits proving these principles are provided. > > The circuits are: > 1. Easy to understand! > 2. Easy to construct! (just a few common parts) > 3. Easy to measure! > > The first experiments are all LOW VOLTAGE so that even a child can >perform them safely. (great science fair stuff!) > > These experiments will show how to take a fixed amount of charge from a >battery or other power supply and use it to produce more work than what is >conventionally believed possible. > Nothing in this book defies the laws of physics. The information presented >simply combines a few bits of "conventional" theory together in a unique >way. This allows anyone to produce on demand what would normally be considered >an anomolous excess of energy. > This is not some sort of "cold fusion" process and requires no bizarre >or expensive components. > These principles can be easily applied using high voltage methods to >produce more powerful results. George has provided a simple design for >a high voltage motor that anyone with a moderate amount of shop skill >should be able to produce. Once someone builds and understands the >simple model it shouldn't be very difficult to scale it up to build more >powerful machines. Component designs and suggestions are included >in the book. > This motor design is based on the "Gray Motor" patent. A full copy of >the patent, including all the diagrams, has been included with the book >for you to examine. > > Usually a patent text indicates that anyone "skilled in the art" could >reproduce a device from the designs in a patent. This is just a fancy >way of saying that they left some critical information out the the patent >text so that they can maintain an "edge" over anyone else that may try to >duplicate the technology. > Since the Ed Gray patent has expired, anyone can now make use of this >information, if they can figure out what critical parts are missing. George >managed to fill in the blanks! Now you can get all that info too! > > > Others have sold what amounts to mediocre copies of Ed Gray's ideas without >providing the missing information or fully explaining the processes taking >place in the motor. George became a little upset over this and decided to >right that wrong as best he could. You now have the opportunity to be on the >receiving end of his efforts. > > Anyone seriously interested in electricity and magnetism and especially >free-energy design should get a copy of this book. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The book is entitled > > "High Voltage and Free Energy Devices" > by George Moonhie > > > The cost: Orders Inside the U.S.A. $17.00 > Foreign Orders $20.00 > > Prices are in U.S. dollars > > -Shipping & Handling are included in the cost. > > -Most orders are shipped the same day that we receive them. > > Sorry, we cannot accept personal checks. > > Please send either CASH or MONEY-ORDER for the proper amount to: > > JRS > 1221 State St. > Schenectady, NY > 12304 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Please include your E-mail address with your order so that we can > notify you when we receive it. > > Many thanks to those that have already purchased a copy of this book! > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 15 02:42:53 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id CAA03337 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:42:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: Conny.Ohstrom@abc.se Sun Sep 15 02:42:50 1996 Received: from bure.abc.se (bure.abc.se [192.36.170.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA03314 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:42:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pm2-11.abc.se by bure.abc.se (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA10424; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:42:37 +0200 Old-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:42:37 +0200 Message-Id: <199609150942.LAA10424@bure.abc.se> X-Sender: m10190@mail.abc.se (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Conny.Ohstrom@abc.se (Conny Ohstrom) Subject: Field Generators X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: I have added a paper called "Field Generators" to my home-pages. To make up to 25 watt of free energy. In them you will find text about Fibonacci-series. 1,1,2,3,5,8,13... Take fib(N)/fib(N+1) and you will come closer and closer to the godlen ratio. (2/(1+sqrt(5))). Notice also the idea I got that maybe that N TESLA's powerbox that he made around 1930, used 12 vaccumtubes, and that 1+1+2+3+5 equals 12. If He was still alive, I would ask him if it was possibile to use 20 vaccumtubes instead! exit --- Dont steal, the government hates competition! Conny Ohstrom; Vita liljans vag 57, 3tr; S-127 34 SKARHOLMEN; SWEDEN; phone: +46-8-978055; mailto:conny.ohstrom@abc.se http://www.abc.se/~m10190/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 15 08:11:15 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id IAA26767; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 08:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 08:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609151512.IAA03598@magick.net> X-Sender: flockoi@magick.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 08:08:40 -0700 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: rolf Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"TOLWQ2.0.8Y6.Xl1Fo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:14 PM 9/14/96 -0400, you wrote: >> Andreas wrote: >> >> > Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) >> > is about 60 GHz! >> > I found this at the SETI site: http://altair.syr.edu:2024/SETI and I >keep it on hand as a reference on the "resonant frequency of water". > >George >gelston@gate.net > > "If we believe that water will be essential for most other forms of >life as well as for our own, then we may find merit in the suggestion made >by the physicist Bernard Oliver. Since each molecule of water (H2O) >consists of a hydrogen atom (H) plus a molecule of OH, Oliver pointed to >the frequency band between 1420 MHz and 1721 MHz as the most likely >channel for interstellar communication. OH molecules produce photons at a >series of frequencies1612, 1665, 1667, and 1721 MHzby an emission process >similar to that for hydrogen atoms. The band of frequencies characteristic >of photon emission from OH molecules forms a guidepost in the realm of >photon frequencies, just as the 1420-MHz frequency of hydrogen-atom >emission forms another still more striking marker. -------------- >"If the importance of >water occupies a large place in the consciousness of all life forms, then >from the fact that H + OH = water, we might indeed find that the range of >frequencies between 1420 MHz and 1721 MHz specifies the galactic radio >dial the frequency domain where interstellar communication occurs. Bernard >Oliver calls this gap the "water hole": the place (in photon frequency) >where galactic civilizations meet. (Note that water molecules by >themselves emit a complex pattern of radio waves, with no dominant >frequency or set of frequencies.)" > ---------------- Hi--my name is Rolf and I can't believe what I just read, for it explains something I experienced several years ago, as I heard (and captured by humming into my pocket tape recorder) beautiful music which came right out of the water! I had been camping in the North Cascades area in Washington State alongside a river for several weeks and this episode (hearing the music) lasted for around 6 days. I had to chuckle one day, as the music seemed to stop for a "commercial?" break and one time I thought I heard "and this is Universal Radio!!!" Really! Well, just had to tell this story, for even now when I play my music for people and they comment on how beautiful it is and I tell them "I heard it right out of the water" they give me--you know--one of those looks---- Enuf for now flockoi@magick.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 15 14:31:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id OAA26554; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:21:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199609152121.OAA15422@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"4ElgW2.0.hU6.vD7Fo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I've read that John Keely had a method of creating higher frequencies from lower frequencies. Does anyone have more details of this? Regards; Dennis C. Lee At 04:32 PM 9/14/96 EDT, you wrote: >Andreas wrote: > > > Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) > > is about 60 GHz! > >That's about six octaves away from about 1mhz. Abruptness or fast rise time in >some powerful component on a lower harmonic of the target frequency might begin >to transfer transfer a little energy to things resonant to that higher >frequency. Square wave oscillators and so forth usually aren't anywhere near so >crisp in rise or fall, but sparks and similar transients have power components >all over the spectrum. Almost all the power sloshing around at the lower >frequencies is lost though, and the Q is low. But if there's a nice package of >energy being opened up as a result of the tickling that's occuring at the high >end, perhaps helped by some self-exciting or other non-linear effect, maybe it >works out to an excess of output power over input to the system if enough of >that hidden energy is released as a result. > >- Rick Monteverde >Honolulu, HI > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 00:54:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id AAA10819; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 00:51:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609160749.BAA17481@inquo.net> From: "Kent" To: Subject: Nastyness about the VTA Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 01:46:48 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Lkxxa.0.JY2.WQGFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 10 Aug 1996, btr1255@tcac.com wrote: >I would like to experiment with the Sweet VTA device. I've downloaded the >info from Keelynet but really need more information. Is any one else >exploring this device? What other sources of information are available? For six months I have employed an inventor who had evidence that he had built a have been able to do it, but he didn't keep good logs of his original invention and he wasn't really committed to the project. However, we learned that the Sweet device has numerous variables. This is not a project for an experimenter. What is needed is a magnetics expert, one that knows there are 14 kinds of magnetic fields, to delve into this project if any results are ever going to happen from Sweet's work. So my advice as one who has spent a lot of money and time in this project is to stay out. It is extremely complex. You can get sucked in with the promise of a working device that Sweet used to have, but it even took Sweet several years to duplicate the device and he knew how it worked! - Reed Reed Huish Zenergy Corporation Reed, My opinion is that you are severly bitter, I am not a magnetics engineer and I understand VERY well how the the Sweet VTA works. My research on the subject has costed dearly as well, time and money. But that is no reason for saying that if you couldnt Produce fruit, nobody else can. after all somone Might find a way to increase the efficiency. Kent From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 04:03:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id EAA21003; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 04:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 04:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:07:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199609161107.GAA08078@odin.tcac.com> X-Sender: btr1255@postoffice.tcac.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: btr1255@tcac.com (Bob Rutherford) Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"0CKDV2.0.285.wEJFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Andreas wrote: > > > Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) > > is about 60 GHz! Actually that frequency is a bit high. Microwave ovens operate at the resonant frequency of H2O which is somewhere around 1.5 giga-cps. Thats how they heat food by vibrating the water molecules in the food. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 06:56:14 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id GAA18768; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:41:53 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960916094030.73a71662@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"7dMnJ.0.4b4.AdLFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:07 AM 9/16/96 -0500, Bob Rutherford wrote: >>Andreas wrote: >> >> > Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) >> > is about 60 GHz! > >Actually that frequency is a bit high. Microwave ovens operate at the >resonant frequency of H2O which is somewhere around 1.5 giga-cps. Thats how >they heat food >by vibrating the water molecules in the food. > > Actually, at that frequency in the EM-spectrum, you are speaking of relaxation, and not resonance. They are quite different. Furthermore, microwave interactions involve molecular rotations, whereas infra-red illumination invokes molecular vibrations. Hope that helps. Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 07:01:03 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id GAA21193; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 08:48:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199609161348.IAA05244@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"G7n992.0.-A5.sgLFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >My curiosity is consuming me! > >I've racked my brain trying to figure out what it is that could have been >slipped in under our very noses that incorporates Newman's ideas. (It's >certainly not my electric razor. The darn thing won't hold a charge for >more than 3 days!) > >How about a little news leak here for those of us that can't get to Mobile, >or at least a little bit of wild speculation! Comments? Accusations? > Future history is being written as we speak! An event as dramatic as the >revelation of 30 years of work being stolen by heinous greedy industrialists >needs at least a week's worth of wild, inaccurate rumors to make it fun. > Any theories out there? Perhaps Commonwealth Edison and the other power companies have been making pure profit on our power bills ??? Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 07:46:54 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id HAA07526; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <323D6201.4D1B@indirect.com> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:19:46 -0700 From: Reed Huish Reply-To: Reed Huish Organization: Zenergy Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Nastyness about the VTA References: <199609160749.BAA17481@inquo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wOMJP3.0.Ur1.2BMFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Kent wrote: > On Sat, 10 Aug 1996, btr1255@tcac.com wrote: > >I would like to experiment with the Sweet VTA device. I've downloaded the > >info from Keelynet but really need more information. Is any one else > >exploring this device? What other sources of information are available? > > For six months I have employed an inventor who had evidence that he had > built a have been able to do it, but he didn't keep good logs of his > original invention and he wasn't really committed to the project. > > However, we learned that the Sweet device has numerous variables. This is > not a > project for an experimenter. What is needed is a magnetics expert, one > that > knows there are 14 kinds of magnetic fields, to delve into this project if > any > results are ever going to happen from Sweet's work. > > So my advice as one who has spent a lot of money and time in this project > is to stay out. It is extremely complex. You can get sucked in with the > promise > of a working device that Sweet used to have, but it even took Sweet several > years to duplicate the device and he knew how it worked! > > - Reed > > Reed Huish > Zenergy Corporation > > Reed, > My opinion is that you are severly bitter, I am not a magnetics engineer > and I understand VERY well how the the Sweet VTA works. My research on the > subject has costed dearly as well, time and money. But that is no reason > for saying that if you couldnt Produce fruit, nobody else can. after all > somone Might find a way to increase the efficiency. > > Kent > Wrong impression Kent. I'm not bitter, just pointing out the reality of this technology. It's not a question of increasing its efficiency. Either it works or it doesn't. The real question is...have you made it work? That is, produce 500 watts without any input as Sweet claimed he did. -- Reed Huish Zenergy Corporation 390 South Robins Way, Chandler Arizona 85225 Phone: 602.814.7865 Fax: 602.821.0967 Email: reedh@indirect.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 08:26:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) id LAA01419 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:49:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: gsawyer@dove.mtx.net.au Thu Sep 12 11:49:00 1996 Received: from dove.mtx.net.au (root@dove.mtx.net.au [203.15.24.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA00875 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp01n.mtx.net.au (ppp01n.mtx.net.au [203.15.26.101]) by dove.mtx.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA08552 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:01:50 +0930 Message-ID: <32392DF5.1058@dove.mtx.net.au> Old-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 02:48:37 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Yellow LED Detector ckt ... Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1B3721C8F79" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1B3721C8F79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the circuit ( Rough) !!! and a handful of notes... Enjoy ... er umm ... ENGAGE !!!!!! Best regards, Glen Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com MID-FM 87.6 Kapunda S.A (085) 66-3600 (Business Hrs ONLY) Outback Communications (085) 66-3236 (Business Hrs ONLY) Lighting, Audio and Special Effects Custom Software development (DOS & Windows) Call NOW ! --------------1B3721C8F79 Content-Type: image/gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RADTECT1.GIF" R0lGODdhngEPAfcAAAAAAAEBAQICAgMDAwQEBAUFBQYGBgcHBwgICAkJCQoKCgsLCwwMDA0N DQ4ODg8PDxAQEBERERISEhMTExQUFBUVFRYWFhcXFxgYGBkZGRoaGhsbGxwcHB0dHR4eHh8f HyAgICEhISIiIiMjIyQkJCUlJSYmJicnJygoKCkpKSoqKisrKywsLC0tLS4uLi8vLzAwMDEx MTIyMjMzMzQ0NDU1NTY2Njc3Nzg4ODk5OTo6Ojs7Ozw8PD09PT4+Pj8/P0BAQEFBQUJCQkND Q0REREVFRUZGRkdHR0hISElJSUpKSktLS0xMTE1NTU5OTk9PT1BQUFFRUVJSUlNTU1RUVFVV VVZWVldXV1hYWFlZWVpaWltbW1xcXF1dXV5eXl9fX2BgYGFhYWJiYmNjY2RkZGVlZWZmZmdn Z2hoaGlpaWpqamtra2xsbG1tbW5ubm9vb3BwcHFxcXJycnNzc3R0dHV1dXZ2dnd3d3h4eHl5 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Ewc/SiTyANLyCAe8MCBx4IamIQdw6At2ME2TyM91cBEyQ49qKAzmqYZpiAbAMged24to9VWm 6gZyqy0yPJGGQLGRw9AbGQhWnddJ5NKxMM4U+cQFOZJGmVS3o5h2eNGX0SM1W4lx+C2EbTma 8Il7cwo3obTjMwc8aodCeody0Ib3LIduoCpy6AZL9cdLXU9tgAZlYAaFWQYOqc9x0AZ40Atz AIeOFQfVhAkYjQlKaw+FSNGxo1eehbxbo4yX+hHnFJuDEDRaqwh0mDmc2BgVhAep0YeGuM1X Cjxz2Ijgm1SQoDmtZYd/SSnymFYg9VrsChZweDDUeRMHcQiHbHAGr+qGb3Dbc2jNvPmG1vwX uqU5MTsIrNCaeKC6s8upBEmsnu2MgAAAAA== --------------1B3721C8F79 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="RADTECT1.TXT" RADTECT1.GIF Notes. The attached circuit is believed to have originated from a "TAB" Books publication of the early 70's titled "The Encyclopedia of Electronic circuits" ISBN 0-8306-1938-0 I claim nothing for the circuit other than the effects which where observed when a sample version was built to the described circuit. Notes that accompanied this circuit follow .... QUOTE " A sensitive radiation monitor may be simply constructed with a large area photodiode and a quad op-amp. Replacing the glass window of the diode with Mylar foil will shield it from light and infrared energy ( *** Our 'YELLOW LED' was sprayed black and installed INSIDE an enclosure *** ) , enabling it to respond to nuclear radiation such as Alpha and Beta particles and Gamma rays. Op-amp A4 ( *** 1/4 of a Norton Quad LM-3900 *** ) integrates the output of A3 in order to drive a microammeter, a 1 uF capacitor is used in the integrating network a lower value of ( e.g 33 nF ) will make it possible to drive a small loudspeaker or an indicating Light Emitting Diode. " ENDQUOTE My notes: NOTES on the (poor quality scanned image) the first 2 sections of the op-amp have their non-inverting input taken to supply via a 2 meg R, gain control across these first 2 amplifier sections use a 1 Meg R. Shielding around the op-amps ( dashed lines ) is important - you are dealing here with a potentially high gain circuit, do not let the input get a sniff of the output ! Supply voltage is a 9 volt dry cell, the 2N2218 ( NOT critical almost any small signal NPN with suitable Vce will suffice ) is used as a "saturated switch" - as you will see from the circuit it is DC coupled to the LED or Speaker (through SW2). While SW1 selects the output of A4 to godirectly to a uA meter or to the base of the transistor. Obviously you can choose to delete part of this circuit if (e.g) you only want audio readout. The rest of the circuit (apart from photodiode bias 680K in series and bypass at supply side with a .1 uF to deck ) is derived from a 4.3 volt rail that uses a Zener regulator. Photodiode couples into the Op-amp (A1) via a 68nF capacitor, output is AC coupled into the next stage through a 20 pF, 100K (bypassed with a 56pF). We used Ceramicaps (NPO) for the low values and monolithics for the 0.1uF bypasses There is a 50 uF Across the 4v3 supply to ground. The 20 K in series with the meter can be varied to suit whatever meter you have. the 10 K pot' controls overall gain and can be panel mounted. --------------1B3721C8F79-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 10:15:02 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id KAA29932 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:14:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: dodo@pi.net Mon Sep 16 10:14:50 1996 Received: from mailhost.pi.net (mailhost.pi.net [145.220.3.9]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA29532 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pi-user.pi.net (ut52.pi.net [145.220.194.52]) by mailhost.pi.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA26078 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:10:08 +0200 (MET DST) Posted-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:10:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <323D88F6.47B5@pi.net> Old-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:05:58 +0200 From: MvD Organization: Mood Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PI-32 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water References: <199609161107.GAA08078@odin.tcac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: Bob Rutherford wrote: > > >Andreas wrote: > > > > > Sounds improbable to me. The resonant frequency of water (molecules) > > > is about 60 GHz! > > Actually that frequency is a bit high. Microwave ovens operate at the > resonant frequency of H2O which is somewhere around 1.5 giga-cps. Thats how > they heat food > by vibrating the water molecules in the food. Indeed they vibrate the molecules as a whole molucule, which is possible because h2O is a dipool. If you suply a frequence x times lower (UHF televiosion wafes), but with a amplitude x times higher, you will have the same heating affect, if the water is not conducting. This microwafe heating effect has nothing to do with the resonant frequence of water, which has to do with the vibration energy between the H+ en 0- 'ions' that form the watermolucule. Further I am asking myself if this energy is quantsised by quantummechanical principles? And if so: does the quantum state infuence the vibration energy? This also can axplain why this device can produce more chemical output energy than electical input energy: Imaging 2 H2O molucules colliding with each other, and in this collision, translation energy (heat) is converted into vibration energy (also heat!). Suppose an external electric field is changing polarity at the same frequency as the water molucules in this high vibrational energy state. Than this molucule can pick up energy from the electric field en split into it's seperate atoms. These atoms can form O2 and H2 molucules. If you take a look at the energy balance, you will find that there are 2 kinds of energy input: electricity and heat! The heat part is for free, because it can be suplied by cooling the environment. This, of course, is only theory, and i'm only a hobby phycisist. But it is a conventional explanation for a free energy device which breaks the 2e law of thermodinamics. Who can test this theory? I would like to hear about it! -- ---------------------- Clacke's Law's of Prophesy FIRST LAW When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certain correct. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. SECOND LAW The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible. THIRd LAW Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguisheble from magic. Dootingh@pi.net Utrecht The Netherlands From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 11:00:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id KAA05009; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:34:14 -0700 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: INE (New Energy) Site Updated Friday! Resent-Message-ID: <"_hIsT2.0.2E1.v-OFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Sept. 12, 1996 Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 5, September 1996. Call for Papers for 1997 IECEC in Announcements Page. Formal IECEC 97 Announcements Page link. "Breakthrough As Scientists Beat Gravity" article. UseNet sci.physics.research Posted Articles. "Construction of The Gravito Magnetic Device (GMD)" Pierre Sinclaire's Paper from the 3rd ISNE, Apr. 1996. "Vimana Aircraft of Ancient India and Atlantis" Summary. "Change The Rules Not The Rulers" "Advanced Electromagnetism: Foundations, Theory And Applications" Book Review "Calibration of the Pd-D2O System" "Cold Fusion and Transmutation of Nuclei: Recent Achievements and Old Problems" "Nickel-Metal Hydride Batteries. The Preferred Batteries of the Future?" Hydrosonic Power Generation Selected Authors' Abstracts From The Journal Of New Energy, Vol. 1, No. 2 "Aetheric Science Papers" Book Review "Newtonian Electrodynamics" Book Review "Maryland - Magnetic Antenna" Push-Gravity Video Tape and Book Florida - Space Energy Journal Articles "Review of Sierra Club Books" Books Review Websites Pages. Yull Brown Gas Page, Dale Pond's Page on John Keely, Project Magnet, Nova Energy, Project Omicron, PEA Research, the Tesla Switch, and Summary of book "Angles Don't Play This HAARP". Link to Common Law (at the top of the site). Updated: Tornados and Ball Lighting Paper, ELEWIS3.html. The paper was revised and expanded, dated 8/20/96. Two words in the Newman.html file. Search for "[". List of Subjects and Names (at the top of the site). Announcements and Meetings files. Authors and Subjects Index Files. Fixed return pointer from WEBSITES to INE Home Page. Site Counter = 22,962. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 11:51:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id LAA17320; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:27:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199609161827.NAA65012@odin.tcac.com> X-Sender: btr1255@postoffice.tcac.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: btr1255@tcac.com (Bob Rutherford) Subject: Re: Resonant freq of water Resent-Message-ID: <"nm3t11.0.XE4.qhPFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Actually, at that frequency in the EM-spectrum, you are speaking of >relaxation, and not resonance. They are quite different. > > Furthermore, microwave interactions involve molecular rotations, whereas >infra-red illumination invokes molecular vibrations. > > Hope that helps. > > Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) I stand corrected. After posting the last message, I went back to some of my refference material and found that I was indeed mistaken. Thank you for politely pointing out my error. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 15:45:50 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id OAA04659; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 14:55:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199609162117.RAA08416@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: Laser To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (freenrg) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:17:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"LtY_t2.0.h81.YlSFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Can anyone tell me where to find a high powered laser that is not to expencive. If you know laser catalogs or web pages it would help. Andrew -- Home page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/homepage.html E-Mail: ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 17:15:03 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id QAA28432; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <323DE44C.72D7@polaris.net> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:35:40 -0400 From: Bruce Gelerter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5aGold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Laser References: <199609162117.RAA08416@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QhpyB.0.9y6.mNUFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Andrew Cantino wrote: > > Can anyone tell me where to find a high powered laser that is not to > expencive. If you know laser catalogs or web pages it would help. > > Andrew > > -- > Home page: > http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/homepage.html > E-Mail: ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu I have a 50 Watt CW CO2 laser for sale. It was removed from a working surgical laser system. It is housed with a HeNe laser which is coincident with far-IR beam from CO2. It has an umbilical which the water cooling and high voltage and gases flow thru. I have other parts to help you set it up, such as a vacuum pump and power supply. Leave me E-Mail if interested. Thanks, Bruce :) -- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ Creating Wealth Through Education! * Bruce Gelerter $ $ Learn... * bgelert@polaris.net $ $ > How to set-up offshore trusts * Check-out our Web Site at $ $ > How to get into offshore banking * http://users.mwci.net/~destiny $ $ > How YOU are being victimized! * OR $ $ > How to make $3,000+/week * 800-995-0796 ext 1373 $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 17:50:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id RAA06123; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:24:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199609170024.TAA76402@odin.tcac.com> X-Sender: btr1255@postoffice.tcac.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: btr1255@tcac.com (Bob Rutherford) Subject: Re: Laser Resent-Message-ID: <"z0ior2.0.WV1.lwUFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Can anyone tell me where to find a high powered laser that is not to >expencive. If you know laser catalogs or web pages it would help. > >Andrew > > Check out http://www.amazing1.com That is Information Unlimited's home page. They have plans and sources for all kinds of lasers. The plans are reasonable, some of the parts are expensive but not really overpriced. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 16 23:33:01 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id XAA25392; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:15:32 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:26:32 PST Subject: Re: DIGEST MODE Message-ID: <19960917.223715.5399.5.cprog@juno.com> References: <199609161827.NAA65012@odin.tcac.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3 From: cprog@juno.com (Custom Programming) Resent-Message-ID: <"yTugr3.0.YC6.p7aFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Would someone mind posting how to set the format to DIGEST mode...so as to only get one long-message each day....instead of many smaller ones...thanks From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 17 10:36:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id KAA07144; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609171722.MAA11825@ns.vvm.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Brent Davidson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:16:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Laser Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"jdc7i3.0.Pl1.0tjFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You might also try http://www.mi-lasers.com . Meredith Instruments has some high power Argon lasers from time to time for around $3000. Most are used, but garunteed woring. Brent Davidson > Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 19:24:12 -0500 > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > From: btr1255@tcac.com (Bob Rutherford) > Subject: Re: Laser > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >Can anyone tell me where to find a high powered laser that is not to > >expencive. If you know laser catalogs or web pages it would help. > > > >Andrew > > > > > > Check out http://www.amazing1.com > That is Information Unlimited's home page. They have plans and sources for > all kinds of lasers. The plans are reasonable, some of the parts are > expensive but not really overpriced. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 17 10:46:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id KAA10403; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:30:30 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Yellow LED& radiation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rtnzY1.0.SY2.v2kFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Note: TV sets can be radioactive. If you live in a high-radon area, the screen of the CRT can attract charged radon daughter products out of the air. After a few hours the CRT screen has concentrated enough material to be easily detected by a GM counter. Another cute trick: if there is radon in the air and the humidity is low, you can blow up a balloon, charge it with wool or fur, then hang it in the room for a few hours. Then let the air out of the balloon, wad it up into a small volume, and place it against a GM counter tube. The count rate should go way above background. I tried these and got no results, but our area isn't supposed to have radon problems. I wonder if the first one is part of the origin of the "color TV x-ray scare" from the early 70's? The above were from the phys-L physics teacher list. Note that radon itself is not supposed to be charged and attracted to CRTs and balloons, it's the ionized radioactive daughter products which result when radon decays. One other thing: old color TVs had a vacuum tube rectifier in the high voltage section. These would put out x-rays as 15KHZ pulses. Later models had thick lead-glass in the tube, and thick steel boxes around it. Modern TV sets have solid state diodes which don't emit any x-rays. No one has mentioned, but it's probably on our minds, that if we're extremely lucky, the detector is picking up something unknown. Scalar pulses, modulated ZPE, electrogravity waves, etc. Then we can send morse code by turning the TV on and off! ................................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 17 11:46:49 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id LAA25930; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: forwarded msg Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-fJga.0.1L6.--kFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:40:18 GMT From: Josef Hasslberger To: William Beaty Subject: Re: Prometheus game ( >On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Zack Widup wrote: > >> "Entering research to tap the zero-point energy is playing >> what I call the Prometheus game. In mythology, Prometheus gave >> fire to man, and for this the Gods punished him for eternity. An >> inventor who believes he alone is giving 'free energy' to mankind >> is a pawn in this game. If his invention is successful, he will >> find himself under attack and ridicule. How can one safely play >> and win the game?" >> Bill Beaty replied on 11/9/96: > >Excellent quote! > >The "free energy" arena is like no other. The forces arrayed against its >development create a set of rules which is very different than those of a >mature field where new discoveries are logical extentions of earlier ones. >"Free energy" work is more akin to the discovery of flight than to the >creation of useful products. > ....... >The way I see it, there are several options for a free energy inventor: > >1. Demand payment before releasing secrets. Attract ridicule >and derision. Finally die, safe with the knowledge that >no one stole your hard-won discoveries. > >2. Demand payment before releasing secrets. Sell your secrets to >those who want to prevent their release, or to those whose greed >makes them incompetant at developing the ideas. You've got your >money, and the world will never benefit from your discovery. > >3. Fight for inventor's rights. But this is a losing proposition >in regards to your invention, since winning this battle takes more >than one lifetime. If you have an amazing discovery yourself, your >energies are split, and the conflict of interest may lose you both >the fight for rights and the fight to sell your works. Better to >go into patent politics fulltime. > >4. Release detailed instructions for reproducing your discoveries. >But people will mostly ignore you, witness all the patents which >now gather dust in the archives. The few who attempt to duplicate >your device will most likely make a mistake, fail, and assume >that the invention was bogus to begin with. More is needed. >Spend all your time developing simple kits which can be built by >anyone, which always work, and which demonstrate obvious phenomena >which cannot be explained away by skeptics. Then SELL the kits. >Write construction articles and get them published in hobbyist >magazines. Spread your articles and instructions all over internet. >Give personal help to any who try building your devices. Tunnel >under the walls of skepticism and collapse them, rather than >attacking them at their strongest points as is done in 1, 2, and 3. > > > Could not agree more with Bill's analysis. The playing field in new energy inventing is not even. Patent laws have failed to help to any great degree and are corrupted to where they may be used *to keep an invention from getting produced*!! I have made a proposal in an article (1989) on patent laws, that would remove these corruptions and still protect inventors' rights. For anyone interested, the article can be found on my home page under the heading "Patents". http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 17 12:18:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id MAA03505; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:15:59 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: laser-attracted lightning In-Reply-To: <199609121922.PAA17944@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8LzRK1.0.es._MlFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Andrew Cantino wrote: > I would love to talk about this subject. > > Andrew > Chuck Knight wrote: > > > > I had this idea a while back, but lost my internet access, and the > > discussion along with it. Basically I had theorized that a blunheim > > LASER (nitrogen beam caused by a travelling wave discharge) would be > > perfect, as it relies on the ionization of atmospheric nitrogen for its > > operation, and would be readily absorbed by atmospheric gases. > > > > By creating a conductive pat, it could be used to attract lightning very > > easily. An additional part of my theory, is that the clouds and the > > ground form a giant capacitor, and that the charge could be slowly bled > > off, rather than using lightning to discharge it abruptly. > > > > Then there were the storage options...a thermal and solar array would > > probably work...maybe even a faraday cage to trap the RF portion of the > > lightning bolt, and channel it as electrical energy. > > I have an old SciAm from mid 1980s which shows the discharge froma big TC coming out of the toroid, crawling forward, then zooming sidways in a perfectly straight line. The article was about a Japanses team who used a pulsed IR (not uv) laser to guide the discharge. The IR beam would hit dust and aerosol particles in the air, flash them to plasma, and the discharge would then follow the dotted line. The inventors hoped to use it to force lightning strikes to a particular place, thus protecting nearby areas. Robert Golka was talking about this years ago. He said that UV didn't affect the discharge of a TC, but that xrays did. ................................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 17 23:41:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id PAA01261; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 00:42:07 +0200 Message-Id: <199609172242.AAA02328@bure.abc.se> X-Sender: m10190@mail.abc.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Conny.Ohstrom@abc.se (Conny Ohstrom) Subject: Field Generators Resent-Message-ID: <"Wu2ek1.0.WJ.gcoFo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have added a paper called "Field Generators" to my home-pages. To make up to 25 watt of free energy. In them you will find text about Fibonacci-series. 1,1,2,3,5,8,13... Take fib(N)/fib(N+1) and you will come closer and closer to the godlen ratio. (2/(1+sqrt(5))). Notice also the idea I got that maybe that N TESLA's powerbox that he made around 1930, used 12 vaccumtubes, and that 1+1+2+3+5 equals 12. If He was still alive, I would ask him if it was possibile to use 20 vaccumtubes instead! exit --- Dont steal, the government hates competition! Conny Ohstrom; Vita liljans vag 57, 3tr; S-127 34 SKARHOLMEN; SWEDEN; phone: +46-8-978055; mailto:conny.ohstrom@abc.se http://www.abc.se/~m10190/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 18 09:21:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id IAA09715; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:57:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199609181423.KAA24018@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: free stuff To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (freenrg) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 10:23:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"ho0tq3.0.iN2.Fh1Go"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Do you like to get parts for free? Go to: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/hide/free.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 18 10:01:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id JAA18714; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:34:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609181621.JAA22902@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Field Generators Resent-Message-ID: <"j5ImL3.0.Ia4.QD2Go"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:42 AM 9/18/96 +0200, you wrote: >I have added a paper called "Field Generators" to my home-pages. >To make up to 25 watt of free energy. > >In them you will find text about Fibonacci-series. 1,1,2,3,5,8,13... >Take fib(N)/fib(N+1) and you will come closer and closer to the >godlen ratio. (2/(1+sqrt(5))). > >Notice also the idea I got that maybe that N TESLA's powerbox that he >made around 1930, used 12 vaccumtubes. Conny: The vacuum tubes tesla used had the emmiter dopped with radium chloride, I have patent numbers around here somewhere, that show how it was done. When you pulse a radioactive source with electrostatic energy, excess energy is produced. This is what hubbard, hendershot, and probably morrey did. On one of the patents I have it shows a settup just like the field generator, with a radioactive tube in the place of the field generator, this patent was between 1916 and 1935. Of course this was not the real secret to the tesla box. the tubes only put out a small amount of energy, which was multiplied. If you want to read a long detailed description of how henershot and hubbard did it go to freenrg-l@eskimo.com and read through the last couple of months discussion where I describe in detail how it is done. The problem of using radioactive materials is that the halflife is shortened from hundreds of years to a few months, at best! crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 18 10:01:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id JAA18793; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609181607.JAA22491@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Field Generators Resent-Message-ID: <"h6z6M2.0.Rb4.iD2Go"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:42 AM 9/18/96 +0200, you wrote: >I have added a paper called "Field Generators" to my home-pages. >To make up to 25 watt of free energy. > >In them you will find text about Fibonacci-series. 1,1,2,3,5,8,13... >Take fib(N)/fib(N+1) and you will come closer and closer to the >godlen ratio. (2/(1+sqrt(5))). > >Notice also the idea I got that maybe that N TESLA's powerbox that he >made around 1930, used 12 vaccumtubes, and that 1+1+2+3+5 equals 12. >If He was still alive, I would ask him if it was possibile to use >20 vaccumtubes instead! >exit --- Dont steal, the government hates competition! >Conny Ohstrom; Vita liljans vag 57, 3tr; S-127 34 SKARHOLMEN; >SWEDEN; phone: +46-8-978055; mailto:conny.ohstrom@abc.se >http://www.abc.se/~m10190/index.htm > Conny: This is the exact instructions that I used, this exact text was from an article in borterlands magazine, when the device did not work I called michael thearau and he gave me the person who did the original experiment, who's name was RF DIRECTO, I talked to mr directo and he told me I did everything right,I used a total of ten plates, three on the bottom and five on the top as I remember, It might have been the other way, it's been a couple of years, my inductors were tv flyback transformers and I also tried an eight henry inductor, each with no success, I also used over 1 farad of inductance, Yes that's right 1 farad. Still no success. I could get as much electricity from sticking the two probes from my volt meter into the ground as I did when it was hooked to the field generator. Keep in mind I am 2 to 3 miles from the nearest powerpole. Mr directo told me the device gets it's energy from nearby electrostatic sources tv screens, lightning etc.. I know a way to make it work but not in the form they show. I can,t disclose it right now, the field generator is not necessary, but you have to put an unequal stress on the atmosphere to bring in negative energy, this creates a vacuum. Once that is done there is an unlimited amount of energy available. Not just 25 watts. Once again the field generator does not work unless you live near a powerplant or other large source of electrostatic energy, plus the generator that put out 25 watts was a huge living room size device!!!! If you want to talk to MR. Directo I'll email you his telephone number. > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 18 12:56:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.8.Beta.3/8.6.12) id MAA01519; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:41:58 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960918142633.3eaf445a@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: MICHAEL C SLIVINSKI Subject: Re: Field Generators Resent-Message-ID: <"O-lXW2.0.aN.zn4Go"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Conny: The vacuum tubes tesla used had the emmiter dopped with radium >chloride, I have patent numbers around here somewhere, that show how it was >done. When you pulse a radioactive source with electrostatic energy, excess >energy is produced. This is what hubbard, hendershot, and probably morrey >did. On one of the patents I have it shows a settup just like the field >generator, with a radioactive tube in the place of the field generator, this >patent was between 1916 and 1935. Of course this was not the real secret to >the tesla box. the tubes only put out a small amount of energy, which was >multiplied. If you want to read a long detailed description of how henershot >and hubbard did it go to freenrg-l@eskimo.com and read through the last >couple of months discussion where I describe in detail how it is done. The >problem of using radioactive materials is that the halflife is shortened >from hundreds of years to a few months, at best! >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 > REGARDS ABOVE, IF ONE CAN LOCATE AN OLD WATCH/CLOCK THAT HAD THE DIALS/NUMBERS DOPED WITH RADIOACTIVE SUBSTANCE BE USE IN PLACE OF RADIUM CHLORIDE OR IS THAT WHAT THEY USED. I KNOW YEARS AGO THEY SAID THESE OLD WATCHES CLOCKS WERE DANGEROUS DUE TO RADIATION. ( I suppose going to antique shops or used furniture) might locate these old items. Just sugesting it in case the radium chloride is hard to come by, or cost prohibitive. thanks mike s. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 18 21:17:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA06348; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 21:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 21:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3241A779.53E6@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 13:05:13 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Allsorts ..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TJFVk3.0.4Z1.0YCGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes it is Glenville rambling - again ! Well I trust that the "new improved" Radtect Ckt was acceptable to you all, certainly had a few people visitng my home-site - Thank you. I stumbled over a URL recently ( do not have it to hand ) but it was detailing how to get "free" energy from a stack of interleaved metal plates and insulators etc etc, I thought I was going to read something new - but alas no !, the item described can be even further simplified if you have what Us Radio Amateurs call a "long-Wire" antenna, or any long run of insulated wire, works even better if you live nearby to a Broadcast station !. A problem with long power distribution cables is that every few kilometres ( miles for my overseas buddies) the lines need to be transposed - else there can be a very large voltage build up due to a number of well documented atmospheric effects. If you have a "long Wire" antenna you can find all sorts of background noises and crackles - even more if you use a plastic insulated wire. - Do not play with this during T-storms - Ben Franklin was a very lucky boy when he tried it ! O.k thats me outa here - gotta go and earn some dollars :>) Best regards, Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com email #3: wicen@hotmail.com Emergency Amateur radio communications Amateur Radio operators may try vk5zcf@vk5lz.#adl.#sa.aus.oc (this will NOT work from the Internet)! Pages are at .. http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer/welcome.html MID-FM 87.6 +61 85 663600 , Outback Communications +61 85 663236 (Business Hrs phone calls ONLY) Lighting, Audio, Special Effects & Custom Software development ( for both DOS & Windows ) Call NOW ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 19 03:49:54 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA10154; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960919184921.25f78152@po.pacific.net.sg> X-Sender: mpowers8@po.pacific.net.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mpower Subject: Re: Allsorts ..... Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:47:43 +0800 Resent-Message-ID: <"_jDMi3.0.VU2.UJIGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 13:05 1996.09.19 -0700, you wrote: >Yes it is Glenville rambling - again ! > . . . > > A problem with long power distribution cables is that every few >kilometres ( miles for my overseas buddies) the lines need to be >transposed - else there can be a very large voltage build up due to >a number of well documented atmospheric effects. > > If you have a "long Wire" antenna you can find all sorts of background >noises and crackles - even more if you use a plastic insulated wire. > > just curious about this - I haven't seen this in my field, but our cables are ground referenced ~300 m and are not suspended above the ground. Furthermore, our conductors are usually twisted-pair construction. Consequently, I wonder what the atmospheric effects are ?... cheers From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 19 03:52:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA10435; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:50:58 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Field Generators Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:50:45 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3244d29c.22999249@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199609181621.JAA22902@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199609181621.JAA22902@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99f/32.289 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"braF-1.0.vY2.GMIGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:21:03 -0700 (PDT), wesly crosiar wrote: [snip] >patent was between 1916 and 1935. Of course this was not the real secret= to >the tesla box. the tubes only put out a small amount of energy, which = was >multiplied. If you want to read a long detailed description of how = henershot >and hubbard did it go to freenrg-l@eskimo.com and read through the last >couple of months discussion where I describe in detail how it is done. = The >problem of using radioactive materials is that the halflife is shortened >from hundreds of years to a few months, at best! Because they get used up providing the energy (i.e. transmuted into something else)? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on=20 temperature. Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 19 03:52:20 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA10408; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 03:50:53 -0700 (PDT) From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Field Generators Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:50:41 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <3243d1bc.22774983@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199609181607.JAA22491@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199609181607.JAA22491@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99f/32.289 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"U_Vvb3.0.XY2.CMIGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 18 Sep 1996 09:07:52 -0700 (PDT), wesly crosiar wrote: [snip] >energy from nearby electrostatic sources tv screens, lightning etc.. I = know >a way to make it work but not in the form they show. I can,t disclose it >right now, the field generator is not necessary, but you have to put an Why can't you disclose it? >unequal stress on the atmosphere to bring in negative energy, this = creates a What exactly is an "unequal stress"? >vacuum. Once that is done there is an unlimited amount of energy = available. >Not just 25 watts. Once again the field generator does not work unless = you >live near a powerplant or other large source of electrostatic energy, = plus >the generator that put out 25 watts was a huge living room size = device!!!! > If you want to talk to MR. Directo I'll email you his telephone = number. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on=20 temperature. Man is the creature that comes into this world knowing everything, Learns all his life, And leaves knowing nothing. -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 19 23:28:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA05608; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609200627.XAA05749@galadriel.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Push-Gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"gPWoG2.0.XN1.BbZGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A while back, I found a good account of the plumb bob experiments which told of other followup experiments, like measuring the convex of a lake and finding it concave, etc. As I read it, they were trying to build a case for push-gravity and I was coming up with a logical explaination for each of their seemingly anomolus observations. Then on the radio, probably Art Bell, a guy was building a case that was half plausable, though his main case was that the universe is not expanding and collapsing. His explaination for gravity was high levels of very low frequency electromagnetic radiation creating a push. It was a spin off of his explaination for red-shift. As he explained that the mass of the earth shields us from the push below us and therefore we feel the push from above, I thought that it's worthy of further thought. I didn't buy it because if gravity was actually a negative force, that is, it is the lack of push in one direction, then there would be a limit on the level of gravity that a mass could cause, e.g. when all the push was blocked, no more could be blocked. Which would mean that Jupitor probably wouldn't have a perportional level of gravity and/or black holes couldn't exist. Also the level of electromagnetic radiation necessary would probably light up every florescent tube on earth constantly. And now for my point. The recent discovery of a gravity blocking device shows that gravity is an attraction not a push. This is because objects over the device got lighter not objects under the device. Or course you might say that the device may be creating extra push. If this is the case then we'll have to call the researchers and ask them to see if objects under the device get heavier. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /**********************************************************/ /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ /**********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 01:01:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA19564; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 00:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609200759.AAA07253@galadriel.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Hey Chuck Resent-Message-ID: <"9UN-V1.0.Xn4.nxaGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Everyone else please excuse. To Chuck Knight: I tryed to send you a private e-mail and I couldn't get through. Is your return address out of date or did your server fall off the face of the earth. By the way Bill, I see you fixed the forwarding return address for the list. Thanks. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /**********************************************************/ /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ /**********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 02:23:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA28381; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 02:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 02:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: 20 Sep 96 05:18:31 EDT From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Push-Gravity Message-ID: <960920091831_76216.2421_HHB29-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"4Bn9h3.0.Lx6.g7cGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Becker wrote: > And now for my point. The recent discovery of a gravity > blocking device shows that gravity is an attraction not a push. > This is because objects over the device got lighter not objects > under the device. Or course you might say that the device may > be creating extra push. If this is the case then we'll have to call > the researchers and ask them to see if objects under the device > get heavier. These results are under some controversy now, and may not be real. Dr. Podkletnov pulled his paper before it was to be published. If they are real though, the strangest thing seems to me to be what it says about how gravity works. The effect allegedly didn't taper off as it should have. Viewed from a distance above, the disc apparently should shield only a small slice of the earth's mass and the very weak-to-begin-with effect should be unnoticable, and yet the effect is still there. This would be as if the acceleration of gravity potential really is a single vector value at a given point, and not a huge mass of overlapping ultra-tiny ones from every other little spec of mass the earth is composed of. This suggests for instance that gravity could actually come towards you from an empty space between two closely positioned massive objects. It *does*, as far as accurate calculations are concerned, but I don't think people usually think of something really coming out of nothing. It was just supposed to be an "as if" calculation. The reports of the experiment clearly contradict that notion. This is *really* bizarre, but doesn't seem to contradict anything - it's always just been assumed that that's how gravity worked - from each little particle to each little particle, perhaps via an undiscovered particle: the graviton. The Finnish researchers mention something about quantum gravity, whatever that is, to try to explain the effect. But they didn't elaborate on it in the published material. Of course Einstein said that the acceleration seen by masses near other masses was due to a kind of warping of spacetime. If you think of space as a sort of monolithing "thing" with a gradient quality imparted to it due to the presence of mass, then it almost seems to suggest that the single valued potential at a given point is the way it really physically is. Thinking in terms of a single inertial reference frame experiencing acceleration (equivalence) helps me grasp the concept. Whatever. It will be very interesting if the G-shield turns out to be real, because aside from the hoped-for propulsion engineering and so forth, it would be a fantastic window onto the true nature and cause of gravity. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 07:49:21 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA15139; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Push-Gravity In-Reply-To: <199609200627.XAA05749@galadriel.compumedia.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fT9oS3.0.Pi3.cvgGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Scott Becker wrote: > over the device got lighter not objects under the device. Or course you > might say that the device may be creating extra push. If this is the case > then we'll have to call the researchers and ask them to see if objects under > the device get heavier. This is in the various articles already. No forces were detected underneath, only above. Weird! .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 07:56:44 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA16000; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:49:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Report your "unusual phenomena" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0mFL91.0.tv3.0ygGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've started a new WWW page: a database for Unusual Phenomena reporting. It's actually a modified form of "web guestbook." Check it out, it's linked through WEIRD SCIENCE page. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 08:51:54 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA28886; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Sep 96 08:50:18 MDT From: "Mary Carleton" Subject: Re: Push-Gravity To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailer: VersaTerm Link v1.1 Resent-Message-ID: <"b-X0F.0.B37.7qhGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Scott Becker wrote: > >> over the device got lighter not objects under the device. Or course you >> might say that the device may be creating extra push. If this is the case >> then we'll have to call the researchers and ask them to see if objects under >> the device get heavier. > >This is in the various articles already. No forces were detected >underneath, only above. Weird! > Truly Wierd! If it is a blocker it must be either be blocking in one direction only or the measurements taken below the device were not sensitive enough to be useful. I am assuming that if the device blocked both directions that the lack of the sun's counter-balancing attraction would be felt below the device for an apparant INCREASE in gravity. (Also assumes tests were made in daytime when the sun could be reasonable expected to be above the experiment.?) Perhaps the tests should be retried during a daytime new moon to maximize effects? A related question...It is easy to understand why the tides bulge toward the moon (allowing for a small rotational lag), but what is the simple explanation for the symetrical bulge away from the moon in the earth's shadow? Mary C. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 09:58:43 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA12799; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 12:13:13 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960920115643.31af17c2@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: MICHAEL C SLIVINSKI Subject: Re: Push-Gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"53GRo1.0.s73.JniGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:50 AM 9/20/96 MDT, you wrote: > >>On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Scott Becker wrote: >> >>> over the device got lighter not objects under the device. Or course you >>> might say that the device may be creating extra push. If this is the case >>> then we'll have to call the researchers and ask them to see if objects under >>> the device get heavier. >> >>This is in the various articles already. No forces were detected >>underneath, only above. Weird! >> >Truly Wierd! If it is a blocker it must be either be blocking in one >direction only or the measurements taken below the device were not sensitive >enough to be useful. I am assuming that if the device blocked both >directions that the lack of the sun's counter-balancing attraction would be >felt below the device for an apparant INCREASE in gravity. (Also assumes >tests were made in daytime when the sun could be reasonable expected to be >above the experiment.?) Perhaps the tests should be retried during a daytime >new moon to maximize effects? > >A related question...It is easy to understand why the tides bulge toward the >moon (allowing for a small rotational lag), but what is the simple >explanation for the symetrical bulge away from the moon in the earth's shadow? > >Mary C. I wonder if the energy/gravity wave might not just be a force blowing above it, has the device been tilted at an angle to see if it can push a device over that is balanced on edge, also does the device itself get any more heavier. If you put it on a scale does it have a downward push and like wise if it is tilted on a right angle would it have a lateral force. Or if Hung by a single stand of steel cable or nylon does it stay perpendicular to the earth or is their an angle to it depending how fined tuned this device can be adjusted to. Maybe these have been tried in their articles. And is the experiment easy enough for a lay person to duplicate. Just curious. thanks Mike S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 11:50:27 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA09633; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 11:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609201852.NAA30371@ns.vvm.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Brent Davidson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 20:44:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Push-Gravity X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Brent Davidson" Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Resent-Message-ID: <"HdPJG1.0.MM2.jRkGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If you think of gravity as a warping of spacetime by a mass, then it is perfectly logical that the G-Shield's effects could extend out into space away from it. If you invision the gravity field of a planet as an inside out sphere (which would visibly still look like a sphere) encircling the planet, then the G-Shield must be creating an opposite distortion in spacetime, reducing the curve. It would seem logical that the effect would be a "point source", or cylindrical region of lowered gravity with a radiusthe same as the radius of the G-Shield's supercondctor. This line of thinking leads to another interesting possibility: If the G-Shield is actually altering spacetime, then could the effect be increased? What would be the effect of this distortion in space away from the effects of a planet's gravitational field? If the G-Shield "warps" spacetime, then it would be logical to asume, that it puts a force of some nature on spacetime. Applying Newton's law of equal and opposite reactions, there would be a counterforce experienced by the shield. Spacetime would effectively be acting like a stretched runbber band. As spacetime tries to srraighten back out, it would conceivably cause the shield to move forward producing a "Warp Drive" effect. One final question: Would it be conceivable for the force applied to spacetime to exceed it's elasticity rip through the fabric, or if spacetims' elasticity is infinite, could you bend spacetime around enough to overlap points (space folding, tesseract, etc..)??? Brent Davidson (davidson@vvm.com) > Date: 20 Sep 96 05:18:31 EDT > From: Rick Monteverde <76216.2421@CompuServe.COM> > To: > Subject: Re: Push-Gravity > Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Scott Becker wrote: > > > And now for my point. The recent discovery of a gravity > > blocking device shows that gravity is an attraction not a push. > > This is because objects over the device got lighter not objects > > under the device. Or course you might say that the device may > > be creating extra push. If this is the case then we'll have to call > > the researchers and ask them to see if objects under the device > > get heavier. > > These results are under some controversy now, and may not be real. Dr. > Podkletnov pulled his paper before it was to be published. If they are real > though, the strangest thing seems to me to be what it says about how gravity > works. The effect allegedly didn't taper off as it should have. Viewed from a > distance above, the disc apparently should shield only a small slice of the > earth's mass and the very weak-to-begin-with effect should be unnoticable, and > yet the effect is still there. This would be as if the acceleration of gravity > potential really is a single vector value at a given point, and not a huge mass > of overlapping ultra-tiny ones from every other little spec of mass the earth > is composed of. This suggests for instance that gravity could actually come > towards you from an empty space between two closely positioned massive objects. > It *does*, as far as accurate calculations are concerned, but I don't think > people usually think of something really coming out of nothing. It was just > supposed to be an "as if" calculation. The reports of the experiment clearly > contradict that notion. > > This is *really* bizarre, but doesn't seem to contradict anything - it's always > just been assumed that that's how gravity worked - from each little particle to > each little particle, perhaps via an undiscovered particle: the graviton. The > Finnish researchers mention something about quantum gravity, whatever that is, > to try to explain the effect. But they didn't elaborate on it in the published > material. > > Of course Einstein said that the acceleration seen by masses near other masses > was due to a kind of warping of spacetime. If you think of space as a sort of > monolithing "thing" with a gradient quality imparted to it due to the presence > of mass, then it almost seems to suggest that the single valued potential at a > given point is the way it really physically is. Thinking in terms of a single > inertial reference frame experiencing acceleration (equivalence) helps me grasp > the concept. Whatever. It will be very interesting if the G-shield turns out to > be real, because aside from the hoped-for propulsion engineering and so forth, > it would be a fantastic window onto the true nature and cause of gravity. > > - Rick Monteverde > Honolulu, HI > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 15:50:56 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA06748; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 15:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Push-Gravity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NF1T_.0.Gf1.gznGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Very weird also because the objects in the vertical "beam" are not being attracted directly by all the matter in direct line of site. Look at it this way: if you are floating in a beam of 100% weightloss, and are floating 100ft above the spinning disk, look down and you see gazillions of cubic meters of dirt and rock down there, and also a small disk directly below you. How can that tiny black dot down on the earth's surface keep you from being attracted by all that rock? If the experiment was run in a location next to mountains, wouldn't you expect the mountains to tug gently on you? The "column" nature of the effect says no, it says that the tiny spinning disk far below you shields you from the entire earth, including the mountains! Maybe the mountains' field will deflect the beam a little, but the disk still shields you. If the moon passes above you, won't it pull you upwards? No, the disk shields you from ALL attractive masses, no matter where they are in relation to you. The masses may bend the column of shielded space, but they cannot pull on you. The results of the Tampere experiment either imply the above, or they imply that there is an extremely tiny, extremely massive object in the center of the earth, and a large percentage of the earth's mass is provided by this object. If this is true, then there IS a cone of gravity-penumbra over the spinning disk, being produced by the rest of the attractive matter in the earth. It's just that this penumbra is combined with the column-beam that's caused by the earth's central point-mass, and more preceise measurments will reveal it.. Hey, maybe all planets have attracted a rain of shadow-matter which falls right to their centers. If shadow-matter repels itself differently than conventional matter (if shadow-atoms are much smaller, or if they are bare shadow-neutrons or something,) then an entire tiny shadow-planet might sit at the center of the earth, providing gravity but not interacting otherwise. This shadow-matter planet would have to be a certain size. If it were too tiny it would be a black hole. I don't think a shadow-black-hole would be OK, because it would trigger the formation of a real black hole, and the earth would have been swallowed up long ago. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 20 23:01:37 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA14903; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 23:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 23:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1996 22:04:57 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Push-Gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"9p3Z43.0.me3.qHuGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >A related question...It is easy to understand why the tides bulge toward the >moon (allowing for a small rotational lag), but what is the simple >explanation for the symetrical bulge away from the moon in the earth's shadow? > >Mary C. I think the answer is centrifugal force. An object in orbit experiences the forces of gravity and an opposing centifugal force. The force of gravity is strongest on the near sides and the centrifugal force is strongest on the far sides of two bodies in mutual orbit (all orbits are mutual). Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 01:43:50 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA01686; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 01:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 01:42:01 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 12:08:27 +0400 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: List of secondary gravitation effects Lines: 17 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qad3d2.0.FQ.OfwGo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello all, Gravitation --------------------> Weight effect --------------------> Photon wave-length change --------------------> Rate of time change --------------------> ??? Please, let's develop this list of different phenomenons are produced by something we called as gravitation. Analysis of many different known secondary effects can lead to conclusion about nature of primary nature of gravitation. Alexander V. Frolov alex@frolov.spb.ru From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 07:55:48 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA19837; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 07:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 07:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 07:03:52 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Push-Gravity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"1cCw63.0.or4.BN_Go"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Horace Heffner wrote: maryc@inc-g.com wrote: > A related question...It is easy to understand why the tides bulge toward > the moon (allowing for a small rotational lag), but what is the simple > explanation for the symetrical bulge away from the moon in the earth's > shadow? Tides occur because the gravity field around a star or planet is radial, not linear. Orbiting is not required, and if an object falls towards the sun, it still feels the radial field and still feels a stretching force. In other words, the closer you get to the sun, the stronger is the gravity. Ignore the distracting parts of orbiting motion, and instead suppose the earth is falling towards the sun. The side closest to the sun is attracted more, while the middle is attracted less, and the far side even less. From the point of view of the earth, the earth is just falling. However, from the point of view of the earth, the side away from the sun is being repelled, while the side towards the sun is being attracted, and the middle of the earth is just sitting there. As a result, the earth is being stretched by the gravity force. As the earth falls towards the sun, what if it misses? What if it moves sideways a bit so it doesn't hit? This is called orbiting, of course. The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. I've seen the magnetic version of tides before. I was playing with ferrofluid droplets in a dish of oil. When I waved a magnet below, all the droplets would fly to the magnet's location. As they did, the spherical droplets elongated into ellipses. The parts of the droplets which were closer to the magnet were attracted more strongly that the parts which were farther away, so the droplets turned into ellipses. I remember being confused about tides. My problem was that I was imagining the situation wrong, I was imagining that I held the earth between two fingers and suspended it over the sun. The gravity should pull the oceans into a great big droplet on the side towards the sun, correct? What could cause a droplet to appear on the far side? Simple: open you fingers and let the earth drop. It suddenly goes into free fall, and it thinks it is weightless. The oceans go "boing" and spread back around the earth, and a new pattern of bulges develops. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 08:59:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24985; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 08:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 08:52:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 08:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609211524.IAA12687@galadriel.compumedia.com> X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: The Wankel Motor project Resent-Message-ID: <"isZr43.0.A66.My0Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just a quick update about my attempt to build a wankel motor. I found some stronger magnets for the rotor at Radio Shack ( the first one was very weak and the field too spread out ) and have three stacks of them mounted. The thing is complete except for two things. Balancing the rotor better and a sensor and switching circuit for the electromagnet. Preliminary testing shows that it is a workable setup. A quick touch of the coil to a six volt battery sends it quickly over the magnetic hump. Scott Becker skot@compumedia.com /**********************************************************/ /* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ /**********************************************************/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 09:24:30 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01283; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 09:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 09:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3244145D.2A9D@lakeweb.net> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 09:14:21 -0700 From: Dan Bloomquist Organization: lakeWeb Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: The Wankel Motor project References: <199609211524.IAA12687@galadriel.compumedia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CvIbT1.0.uJ.QF1Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, A quick note for those looking for magnets. If you go to a shope that repairs microwave ovens and as to have or buy an old magnatron. The magnets (two per mag) are very strong, about 4" in diameter, 1/2" Thick, with a hole. Best, Dan. -- Niccolo' Machiavelli, The Dale Carnagie of Fascism. (DanB) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 09:36:27 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA08834; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 09:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 09:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 09:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609211634.JAA13280@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: The Wankel Motor project Resent-Message-ID: <"Ukz6u.0.w92.LZ1Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:24 AM 9/21/96 -0700, you wrote: > >Just a quick update about my attempt to build a wankel motor. >I found some stronger magnets for the rotor at Radio Shack ( the first >one was very weak and the field too spread out ) and have three stacks >of them mounted. > >The thing is complete except for two things. Balancing the rotor better >and a sensor and switching circuit for the electromagnet. > >Preliminary testing shows that it is a workable setup. A quick touch of >the coil to a six volt battery sends it quickly over the magnetic hump. > > Scott Becker > skot@compumedia.com > > >/**********************************************************/ >/* has anyone ever proven to you that energy is conserved */ >/**********************************************************/ >Scott: If you want some awsome magnets for free, go to dumps, appliance repair stores etc and ask for junk microwaves, and take the magnatron magnets out. Also the diodes and caps are are rated at 12,000 dc volts. Most of the magnets are doughnut shaped so I don't know if you can adapt them to your project, but free is hard to beat! > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 12:08:06 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA06008; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:06:00 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: sciclub@halcyon.com, ghawk@mail.eskimo.com, cynthiaa@microsoft.com, gpaddock@halcyon.com, nickb@microsoft.com, knuke@aa.net, mwm@aa.net, Mcduck95@aol.com, emall@eskimo.com, Robert Dinse , deLisle@eskimo.com, rlh@fripp.ca.boeing.com, hsalazar@kendaco.telebyte.net, jon@apocalypse.org, smonty@halcyon.com, cinder@eskimo.com, logue@uis.edu, lauralee@eskimo.com, bbb@u.washington.edu, phil@redwood.rt.cs.boeing.com, bobcahn@baloney.com, tesla@eor.com, ssatra@accessone.com, tangramm@ix.netcom.com, Pete Dussin , duppy@microsoft.com, lynn@teleport.com, woodring@accessone.com, joec@aa.net, Bob Jackson , coca@connect.com, Horton@eskimo.com, tomp2222@aol.com, rpolley@spots.ab.ca, danwizz@aa.net, merlin@aa.net, freenrg-L@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: SEATTLE WEIRD SCIENCE: Bill Beaty on de Radio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"da6dG1.0.gT1.bo3Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey, listen in on "the Lauralee Show" tonight (Sat) from 9PM to 2AM. I'll be there holding forth on "Science textbook errors", and possibly on weird science topics. Seattle KVI radio, AM 570. Many other stations too, see: http://www.lauralee.com/stations.htm .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 12:25:29 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA09667; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 11:27:17 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Push-Gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"a3bI_.0.yM2.y14Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >As the earth falls towards the sun, what if it misses? What if it moves >sideways a bit so it doesn't hit? This is called orbiting, of course. >The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally >so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal >strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. Here's a little defense of my prior statement, though maybe redundant because a rose is a rose is a rose :). There are many people who don't "believe" in a centrifugal force or refer to it. I don't know if you are one of those Bill. In any case that force is simply inertia, the resistance of matter to acceleration, the change in speed and/or direction. To make an object move in a circle takes a force to cause that acceleration. Some people like to call the force pulling inward to the circle centrepital (in the case of the back side of an object like the earth the stress transmitted through the object by molecular attraction, the electrostatic force), and call the balancing outward force exerted by the matter due to inertia, centrifugal The elongation of an object in freefall (which is just a special case orbital, true?) is due to the inertia of the trailing edge, which does not have the same gravitational pull on it as the leading edge. That inertia resists the greater gravitational force accelerating the leading edge. The imbalance in force is transmitted throught the object by molecules of the object. A free falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can know if it is in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal forces can strech it into the famous spaghetti shape. If an additonal retarding force, like fingers or surrounding fluids, is imposed on a body experiencing tidal forces, the structural effects get much more complex. Many different shapes can arise. > >I've seen the magnetic version of tides before. I was playing with >ferrofluid droplets in a dish of oil. When I waved a magnet below, all Wow! Cool! What did you use for the ferrofluid? [snip] > >.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. >William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 16:41:37 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA17223; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 16:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 16:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 16:27:59 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Slowly falling ionized nickles Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"F0Xtd.0.yC4.3e7Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here's something passed to me by its author. This was in ESJ. Anyone want to have a go at replicating? .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page Date: Aug 26, 1996 From: jameshartman@tsrcom.com From: ELECTRIC SPACECRAFT JOURNAL, Issue 10, 1993 - Pages 36 - 37 lonized Nickels in Free-Fall ESJ Staff Using nickels and ordinary air ionizers manufactured by Pollenex, James Hartman has discovered a unique cause and effect phenomenon on. Hartman began by setting up two tables, 2 feet apart in a room which had 8-foot ceilings (see figures 1 and 2. On each table, he placed an ionizer, from which he ran lengths of #24 electric wire to two nickels. The nickels were then suspended from the ceiling 3 inches apart (see Figure 1 inset). Hartman then released the nickels from the ceiling, and as they fell to the floor, he activated the ionizers. As the sud- den charge was applied, the nickels were observed to slow down in their free-fall to the floor. We here at ESJ would like to encourage interested individuals to replicate this experi- ment and let us know if the same effect is observed. Submitted by James E. Hartman, P.O. Box 612 Griffith, IN 46319 * See Gifs - Freefal1.gif - (Figure 1) - Freefal2.gif - (Figure 2) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 17:46:33 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA27640; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 17:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 17:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: NLSilliman@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:37:48 -0400 Message-ID: <960921203747_483035242@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: re: gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"SnOoZ1.0.nl6.5g8Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) answered: >>The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally >>so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal >>strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. >Here's a little defense of my prior statement, though maybe redundant [snip] > A free falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can >know if it is in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal >forces can strech it into the famous spaghetti shape. If an object is in free fall, how does 'it' know that 'it' is in free fall, rather than just outside the influence of a gravitational field. The reason that I ask, is that there doesn't seem to be any 'test' to determine the difference between a gravitational pull (push?) and an acceleration push. And how can there be a 'tidal force' on an object that has no forces acting on it. (that is the definition of free fall, I thought.) Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 20:34:47 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA23235; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:26:29 -0400 Message-ID: <960921232629_290294989@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Additional information Resent-Message-ID: <"5kh1H2.0.yg5.C8BHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Colin, I'm slow catching up on vortex mail. I just came across your extensive quote about the Soule/Newman commentary. The Newman affair is long, complex, and interesting. I wrote a synopsis and commentary about Newman's book for the 7th issue of Infinite Energy magazine, and an article about the Correa invention for IE #8. I recommend the magazine highly as your best window on the new energy world. Subscriptions are $29.95 for six issues; you can order by credit card at 603 228 4516. The short answer is that Patterson got his patent because he didn't mention the words "cold fusion" and he pleaded for speedy action on account of his age (past 70). The Correas provided extensive test data and literature references in their patent applications, plus carefully worded statements which said in effect that the energy source may not be apparent, but when all is understood, conformance with the laws of thermodynamics is expected. Newman apparently sent the patent office a 'scientific paper' outlining his theories, which are in extreme dissonance with prevailing opinion. I have not seen his actual application, which is still pending. He happened to get an examiner who was incompetent, decided that the Newman invention was a "perpetual motion machine", and it was downhill from there. Newman is intuitive, combative, and stubborn, but also built some interesting devices. He has been battling for decades and is now moving in position to sue the US Government. Do get the IE issues and read carefully. Regards, Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 21:46:20 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA02787; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 21:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 96 23:43 EST X-Sender: bpillow@iquest.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Brad Pillow Subject: Re: List of secondary gravitation effects Resent-Message-ID: <"Eht4Y.0.Rh.nFCHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Alexander, Are the conference proceedings from the St. Petersburg conference available yet? Also, I remember you mentioned the availability of videos of the conference. I now have a PAL VCR, and hence could watch them. How much do they cost? Thanks, Brad _____________________________________________________________ Brad Pillow Internet: bpillow@iquest.net PillowSoft Inc. Phone: 317-823-8756 11715 Fox Rd., Suite 400-120 Fax: 317-823-5988 Indianapolis, IN 46236 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 21 23:40:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA15120; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:38:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: re: gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"f-h7.0.4i3.psDHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) answered: > >>>The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally >>>so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal >>>strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. > >>Here's a little defense of my prior statement, though maybe redundant > >[snip] > >> A free falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can >>know if it is in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal >>forces can strech it into the famous spaghetti shape. > >If an object is in free fall, how does 'it' know that 'it' is in free fall, >rather than just outside the influence of a gravitational field. The reason >that I ask, is that there doesn't seem to be any 'test' to determine the >difference between a gravitational pull (push?) and an acceleration push. > And >how can there be a 'tidal force' on an object that has no forces acting on >it. (that is the definition of free fall, I thought.) > >Norm That is a misconception, yet is often true from a practical standpoint because we live in a weak gravity environment. The only case where there is no tidal effect is when the object acted upon is dimensionless. That is certainly true in a radial field ~(1/R^2), but I think it would also be true in a uniform gravitational field ~(1/R), such as you would have in the plane between two infinitely long parallel planets. An object located between the planets but not at the balance point where the net force is zero, would experience a force say, toward planet A. The part of the object closest to planet A would experience more force than the side further away, thus stress would be placed on the object, even though in free fall, or even though moving away from planet A but decellerating due to the gravity field. An object straddeling the balance point would be pulled in opposite directions at once. Keep in mind that the tidal forces only act to pull an object apart, not accelerate it. Near a black hole you can turn into a piece of spaghetti without experiencing any net acceleration at all. The only thing you might feel accelerating would be one part of your body away from another part. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 01:30:52 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA25557; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 01:23:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 01:23:09 -0700 (PDT) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 12:33:42 +0400 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: re: gravity Lines: 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MV-xO2.0.EF6.iTFHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re 1/r force interaction. Some N.Kozyrev's experiments show the force that is acting with 1/r instead of 1/r^2 law of distance decrease. This force is not EM but it can be produced by EM methods also. Alexander V. Frolov From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 10:39:22 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA13366 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 10:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 10:39:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: Will.Fajber@BCHydro.bc.ca Sun Sep 22 10:39:17 1996 Received: from bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca (bchnetgw.BCHydro.BC.CA [142.52.88.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA13344 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 10:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18719; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:38:41 PDT Received: from bchgate.bchydro.bc.ca by bchnetgw via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma018704; Sun Sep 22 10:37:43 1996 Received: by BCHydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20948; Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:37:41 PDT Old-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 96 10:37:41 PDT Message-Id: <9609221737.AA20948@BCHydro.bc.ca> Received: from unknown(142.52.141.109) by bchgate via smap (V1.3) id sma020830; Sun Sep 22 10:36:42 1996 X-Sender: wfajber@bchgate X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Will Fajber Subject: Re: Push-Gravity X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: I have to admit I have been following this thread and waiting patiently for someone to call centrifugal force a "fictional force". I had a brilliant physics professor who once said: "I don't agree with my colleagues who claim that centrifugal force is a fictional force. Centrifugal force can KILL YOU" (his emphasis). At 11:27 AM 9/21/96 -0800, you wrote: ... >Here's a little defense of my prior statement, though maybe redundant >because a rose is a rose is a rose :). There are many people who don't >"believe" in a centrifugal force or refer to it. I don't know if you are >one of those Bill. In any case that force is simply inertia, the >resistance of matter to acceleration, the change in speed and/or direction. >To make an object move in a circle takes a force to cause that >acceleration. Some people like to call the force pulling inward to the >circle centrepital (in the case of the back side of an object like the >earth the stress transmitted through the object by molecular attraction, >the electrostatic force), and call the balancing outward force exerted by >the matter due to inertia, centrifugal. > ... > >Regards, > PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 > > Regards, Will ------------------------------------------------------------------ Will Fajber Nothing is impossible for wfajber@bchydro.bc.ca those who don't have to 604.528.1921 do the work. 604.528.1883 (fax) - cynical desk calendar From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 11:24:03 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA18748; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 11:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3244A3C9.42F0@lakeweb.net> Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 19:26:17 -0700 From: Dan Bloomquist Organization: lakeWeb Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: gravity References: <960921203747_483035242@emout17.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kdaIj.0.qa4.LDOHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NLSilliman@aol.com wrote: > > > > If an object is in free fall, how does 'it' know that 'it' is in free fall, > rather than just outside the influence of a gravitational field. The reason > that I ask, is that there doesn't seem to be any 'test' to determine the > difference between a gravitational pull (push?) and an acceleration push. You are right, as long as the gravitational field is not strong enough to measure a gradient. > And > how can there be a 'tidal force' on an object that has no forces acting on > it. (that is the definition of free fall, I thought.) > > A free falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can > >know if it is in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal > >forces can stretch it into the famous spaghetti shape. i.e. There is a gradient across the object that causes more force on one end. You could measure the strain of the stretch that is created. This will happen only in very strong fields with current technology (I believe). Best, Dan. -- Niccolo' Machiavelli, The Dale Carnagie of Fascism. (DanB) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 12:50:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA02775; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 12:45:52 -0700 (PDT) From: NLSilliman@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:45:13 -0400 Message-ID: <960922154512_290625558@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"49hFp3.0.Gh.lTPHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) answered: > >>>>The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally >>>>so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal >>>>strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. > >>>Here's a little defense of my prior statement, though maybe redundant > >[snip] > >>> A free falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can >>>know if it is in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal >>>forces can strech it into the famous spaghetti shape. > >>If an object is in free fall, how does 'it' know that 'it' is in free fall, >>rather than just outside the influence of a gravitational field. The reason >>that I ask, is that there doesn't seem to be any 'test' to determine the >>difference between a gravitational pull (push?) and an acceleration push. >> And how can there be a 'tidal force' on an object that has no forces >>acting on it. (that is the definition of free fall, I thought.) > >>Norm >hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) answered: >That is a misconception, yet is often true from a practical standpoint >because we live in a weak gravity environment. The only case where there is >no tidal effect is when the object acted upon is dimensionless. That is >para@lakeweb.net (Dan Bloomquist) answered: You are right, as long as the gravitational field is not strong enough to measure a gradient. OK, what is the definition of free fall? The definition should be the same in a 'weak gravity environment' as in a 'strong gravity environment', should it not? >>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) continues: >certainly true in a radial field ~(1/R^2), but I think it would also be >true in a uniform gravitational field ~(1/R), such as you would have in the >plane between two infinitely long parallel planets. An object located >between the planets but not at the balance point where the net force is >zero, would experience a force say, toward planet A. The part of the object Saying that the 'net force is zero' implies that you have a theory that the force causing gravity is NOT a vector. Would you be willing to share this theory with us? >closest to planet A would experience more force than the side further away, >thus stress would be placed on the object, even though in free fall, or >even though moving away from planet A but decellerating due to the gravity >field. An object straddeling the balance point would be pulled in opposite >directions at once. >para@lakeweb.net (Dan Bloomquist) answered: i.e. There is a gradient across the object that cause more force on one end. You could measure the strain of the stretch that is created. This will happen only in very strong fields with current technology (I believe). This statement insists that gravity must be a 'pulling' force. I personally would be interested in learning what the mechanism is that does the 'pulling'. As you can guess, I don't think much of Einstein's warped space. My problem is that I don't see how mass can influence (curve) space and then at the same time (the mass) be influened (propelled) by the curvature of space. That would be the ultimate bootstrap effect - or magic. I second Alexander V. Frolov's intent if not the mechinism. We know some of what gravity does, but very little about how the effect does the doing. The current model from Einstein (from 80 years back) does little to help us understand what gravity is. Saying (by other people) that gravity is transmitted by 'gravatrons' does not help me. I want to know what is doing the pulling - or pushing. (I don't believe in photons either.) Mr. Heffner is one of the few people around that is knowledgeable about the subject and appears willing to help the rest of us. Mr. Bloomquist also appears willing to discuss the subject. I would appreciate any help that you can provide. The lunar dark side of the earth having a high tide is still a mystery to me (what is doing the pulling?). Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 15:28:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA01303; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 14:24:55 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"_ukz-2.0.DK.akRHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks to Norm Silliman for the consolidated post of this thread. I have not received some of the information contained in it. There is an email problem somewhere, or even multiple problems. One such is that when responding to messages on this list you need to check to whom your response is being sent. This is a new problem that came with this terrifically fast new list server. Where your reponse is sent, to the list or to the sender, is now a function of how the sender's software has set the "reply to" field. At least that is true for the software I use for email - Eudora. At 3:45 PM 9/22/96, NLSilliman@aol.com wrote: >>>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) answered: >> >>>>>The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally >>>>>so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal >>>>>strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. That was Bill Beaty speaking. >> >>>>Here's a little defense of my prior statement, though maybe redundant >> >>[snip] >> >>>> A free falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can >>>>know if it is in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal >>>>forces can strech it into the famous spaghetti shape. >> >>>If an object is in free fall, how does 'it' know that 'it' is in free fall, >>>rather than just outside the influence of a gravitational field. The >reason >>>that I ask, is that there doesn't seem to be any 'test' to determine the >>>difference between a gravitational pull (push?) and an acceleration push. >>> And how can there be a 'tidal force' on an object that has no forces >>>acting on it. (that is the definition of free fall, I thought.) >> >>>Norm I think we need to distinguish between "force" exerted on small masses (particles) and "net force", which is a vector sum of all the forces on all the particle in a connected body. Without knowing what gravity is or how it is transmitted, we do know that the effects, the force of gravity, is different at differing distances between two masses. A 3 dimensional object is not all located at a single distance from anything, therefore you can conclude that the force on individual points within that object are not all the same. There must therefore be an internal force, or more specifcially a force gradient, generated within any 3D object due to the spread of the gravity force magnitude over distance. However, note that if the object had no inirtia, then this would not be true, because it would instantaneously react to a gravitational force and then instantly "be" where it had to be to make the net force zero. This is not how our universe works, of course, because otherwise there would instantaneously be a big bang in reverse! I would call such an effect a big gnab. For this reason it should be obvious that there are no inirtia free particles which exhibit the effects of gravity, for as soon us such a particle (or connected group of such particles) came into existence and outside the larger effects of the other 3 forces, i.e. detatched, it would be gnabbed to the center of the universe! 8^) So inirtia and mass must be inseperable and must play a role as well as the gravity force gradient. Inirtia causes the mass to the "rear" (the lower gravitational potential) to be dragged along slower than the mass at the "front" which experiences the greater force. This effect also increases the tidal force. The above discussion is a partial concession to what Bill Beaty was saying about the reason for the distrotion of, the tidal forces on, an object in free-fall being due to differences in gravity potential. > >>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) answered: > >>That is a misconception, yet is often true from a practical standpoint >>because we live in a weak gravity environment. The only case where there is >>no tidal effect is when the object acted upon is dimensionless. That is > >>para@lakeweb.net (Dan Bloomquist) answered: > > You are right, as long as the gravitational > field is not strong enough to measure a gradient. > >OK, what is the definition of free fall? The definition should be the same >in a 'weak gravity environment' as in a 'strong gravity environment', should >it not? Objects moving directly toward each other, orbital eccentricity infinite. The tidal effects, which are not readily observed near earth, would be inescapable near a black hole. > >>>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) continues: > >>certainly true in a radial field ~(1/R^2), but I think it would also be >>true in a uniform gravitational field ~(1/R), such as you would have in the >>plane between two infinitely long parallel planets. An object located >>between the planets but not at the balance point where the net force is >>zero, would experience a force say, toward planet A. The part of the object > >Saying that the 'net force is zero' implies that you have a theory that >the force causing gravity is NOT a vector. Would you be willing to share >this theory with us? Net force on an object is assumed a vector sum of forces on the components, actually a vector integration. No conflict or magic here. > >>closest to planet A would experience more force than the side further away, >>thus stress would be placed on the object, even though in free fall, or >>even though moving away from planet A but decellerating due to the gravity >>field. An object straddeling the balance point would be pulled in opposite >>directions at once. > >>para@lakeweb.net (Dan Bloomquist) answered: > > i.e. There is a gradient across the object > that cause more force on one end. You could > measure the strain of the stretch that is > created. This will happen only in very strong > fields with current technology (I believe). > >This statement insists that gravity must be a 'pulling' force. I personally >would be interested in learning what the mechanism is that does the >'pulling'. An object will be stretched if you apply two same direction but different magnitude forces to opposite ends of the object regardless of whether the forces are push or pull. The existence of tidal forces does not resolve whether gravity is a push (radiated from everywhere there is mass as a push but manifest as a pull in the gravity shadow of a mass) or pull force. > > >As you can guess, I don't think much of Einstein's warped space. My problem >is that I don't see how mass can influence (curve) space and then at the same >time (the mass) be influened (propelled) by the curvature of space. That >would be the ultimate bootstrap effect - or magic. > >I second Alexander V. Frolov's intent if not the mechinism. We know some of >what gravity does, but very little about how the effect does the doing. The >current model from Einstein (from 80 years back) does little to help us >understand what gravity is. Saying (by other people) that gravity is >transmitted by 'gravatrons' does not help me. I want to know what is doing >the pulling - or pushing. (I don't believe in photons either.) > >Mr. Heffner is one of the few people around that is knowledgeable about the >subject and appears willing to help the rest of us. Mr. Bloomquist also >appears willing to discuss the subject. I am no expert - at anything, just retired and an amateur whatever. I should have explained my method of communication. People in other groups know where I am coming from so often ignore what I say, which is fine. I don't like to mince words with caveats. It just makes it that much more difficult to communicate thoughts, at which I have enbough problems already. I just blurt out what I think and let the corrections come as they always do. The drawback is if you state something unequivically it sounds like you are either an expert or a true believer. Hopefully, I am neither. I dind't expect to have to post this caveat here because I was under the imperssion this was stictly a "do it" group, not theory oriented. I didn't expect to end up in this kind of discussion. Apologies to those who don't want to here it and please let me know if I get out of charter off topic, etc. My words here are meant to be a contribution of whatever I have to offer, which isn't much, not an annoyance. > >I would appreciate any help that you can provide. The lunar dark side of >the earth having a high tide is still a mystery to me (what is doing the >pulling?). > >Norm P---------------------------------B P=======================AxxxxCxxxxB P---------------------------------B = - a strong rubber band - - a weak rubber band, about 1/4 the strength of =, but the same length A - mass B - mass B equal in mass to A C - a mark on the sprin that designates center of gravity P - a pivot with a handle x - a spring Suppose you built the above object to swing around your head. The strong rubber band is analagous to a strong gravitational field, the weak rubber band to a weaker attraction at the larger distance at which B sits, being on the back side. The spring "x" is used to represent the electrostatic force holding the object AB together. Of course this model is not accurate because as the rubber bands lengthen they should exert a weaker force with distance, which they don't, but it is illustrative. A computer model would work much better and be more interresting. If you rotate this device about the pivot P at a constant rate it is a reasonable model that demonstrates some aspects of the tidal effect, especially why there appears to be a pull on the "back" side B. In this model it is the inertia of B and the weaker rubber band (gravitational force) that causes B to swing with a larger radius than A. They start out the same distance from P, but as the rotation rate increases B gets further from both A and C. It is the distance from C that is seen as a "tide". You can see that the distance, from A to C vs C to B is the same, there is the manifestation, the appearance, the illusion, of a back side push that is eqaul to the front side pull, as observed from the vantage point of a viewer on the object. What is confusing, and not shown in the model, is that gravity acts on the observer. The observer can not feel the force of acceleration toward the sun or the moon, or the tidal effect upon himself, he simply observes the tides and wonders why. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 16:05:31 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA09343 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:05:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: ekwall2@november.diac.com Sun Sep 22 16:05:29 1996 Received: from diac.com (ekwall2@diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA09322 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 16:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (ekwall2@localhost) by diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12188 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 23:06:08 GMT Old-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 17:06:08 -0600 (MDT) From: -steve ekwall- X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: gravity In-Reply-To: <960922154512_290625558@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 22 Sep 1996 NLSilliman@aol.com wrote: > Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 15:45:13 -0400 > From: NLSilliman@aol.com > > > >>>>The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally > >>>>so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal > >>>>strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. i think your'word' "falling" is misleading IF Parallel course's are suggested.. Granted the outside track of a record player (old hi-fi stuff) IS Parallel to the inside spindel 'or Label area', but trying to explain the inner mass is ALWAYS pulling on the outer (edge/earth)...can get confusing to some (like Chris & i (ol timer's:) IF the above is truly 'equally sideways' as you say, then the "PULLing" Gravity EXIST whether falling, parallel, OR LEAVING! (cool! PULL wins that one!) OF COURSE IT WINS ONLY ON THE SIDE OF THE EARTH(tides) FACING THE SUN. so maybe 'falling' is a word that should be avoided here. > >[snip] ------------------------------------------------------ > >plane between two infinitely long parallel planets. An object located > >between the planets but not at the balance point where the net force is > >zero, would experience a force say, toward planet A. The part of the object > Saying that the 'net force is zero' implies that you have a theory that > the force causing gravity is NOT a vector. Would you be willing to share > this theory with us? > >[snip]------------------------------------------------------------- > >closest to planet A would experience more force than the side further away, > >thus stress would be placed on the object, even though in free fall, or > >even though moving away from planet A but decellerating due to the gravity > >field. An object straddeling the balance point would be pulled in opposite > >directions at once. > Would this NOT BE centrifical force coming in to play now? I like the word "'SLINGING' tidal oceans out to their opposite bulging point", Ah, but with a Bulge from pulling (sun/moon) G and a Bulge on the Opposite side of the earth, It would APPEAR PUSHing Gravity has lost BOTH MAJOR CASES! (sigh), (unless in the very middle of the centrifical bulge the is a DEPRESSION being caused by the PUSHing 'G'.... hummmm Let's not loose the Forrest for the trees we see. > >para@lakeweb.net (Dan Bloomquist) answered: > > This statement insists that gravity must be a 'pulling' force. I personally > would be interested in learning what the mechanism is that does the > 'pulling'. Would it NOT be PULLing on a Parallel Course with the SUN (forget falling) Would it NOT be (appear to be as in INCREASED TIDAL HEIGHT) PULLing the height of the waves UPWARD via CENTRIFICAL FORCE? So, there are two mechanisms at work here. Like a Dog shaking his coat after being wet, we would indeed be a oceanless Planet if we SLUNG/spun any faster OR were and smaller in MASS for our PULLing Gravity to WORK! > As you can guess, I don't think much of Einstein's warped space. My problem > is that I don't see how mass can influence (curve) space and then at the same > time (the mass) be influened (propelled) by the curvature of space. That > would be the ultimate bootstrap effect - or magic. > > I second Alexander V. Frolov's intent if not the mechinism. We know some of > what gravity does, but very little about how the effect does the doing. The > current model from Einstein (from 80 years back) does little to help us > understand what gravity is. Saying (by other people) that gravity is > transmitted by 'gravatrons' does not help me. I want to know what is doing > the pulling - or pushing. (I don't believe in photons either.) > > Mr. Heffner is one of the few people around that is knowledgeable about the > subject and appears willing to help the rest of us. Mr. Bloomquist also > appears willing to discuss the subject. > > I would appreciate any help that you can provide. The lunar dark side of > the earth having a high tide is still a mystery to me (what is doing the > pulling?). *see above* > Norm Admittedly, i'm only taking PULL vs PUSH Gravity into the above here (ol fashion albeit), but if i streched a plastic sheet square out to weigh it, and observed the buldge downward(!) THEN TURNed it EDGEWISE to incoming aether and PUSHing 'G's, i noted the weight of the entire poles and plastic DID NOT CHANGE!.. i assumed way back then that only PULL or Einsein G could even be consider contestants in this. PULL or MATH i would still like to shield it! -=Steve Ekwall=- POBox 1255-80150 ekwall2@diac.com 'SLEEP is NOT the wk.1.800.798.1100 303.293.2FAX Brother of DEATH, BUT the CML#41251 ------------------MOTHER of INTERRUPTS!'-------------------  From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 18:50:32 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05666; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 18:42:49 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: gravity In-Reply-To: <3244A3C9.42F0@lakeweb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wxuch2.0.RO1.UiUHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Dan Bloomquist wrote: > > > A free falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can > > >know if it is in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal > > >forces can stretch it into the famous spaghetti shape. > > i.e. There is a gradient across the object > that causes more force on one end. You could > measure the strain of the stretch that is > created. This will happen only in very strong > fields with current technology (I believe). ...yes, either a strong field, or a very LARGE falling object. The bigger the object, the greater the difference between the field strength on the nearer side from the farther side. If a planet falls towards another planet, just before collision the nearer side can have several times the attraction than the far side. If the moon fell into the earth, it would become a cigar-shape before it hit. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 22 20:35:59 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA23191; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609230327.UAA15936@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"QdURO.0.Cg5.RDWHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all:I talked to a well known energy researcher today, I won't say who, in respect for his privacy. He told an interesting experiment that has to do with magnetism/gravity. Take a piece of pvc and cut it in two lengthwise to make a trough. Mount it at a fifteen degree angle. Underneath this trough place magnets alternating them north and south, in other words place them so each one oposes each other. Now run water down the trough, according to the person I talked to, the water will form ripples where the magnets are, and according to him will even slop out of the trough because of the magnetic force. Now of course someone will say it won't work with distilled water, but according to him it does the same thing with distilled water also. Also, the nickle experiment.I went to a science fair when I was a kid and one of the exhibits which I am sure was setup by someones DAD, featured a balsa wood frame, with what looked like piano wire criss crossing it, these wires were hooked up to DADS xray machine and when it was turned on it floated. About this same time popular science ran an article about a expeirmental helicopter that had the same arrangment, that was supposed to be used to unload cargo from ships, the only problem was the large cable running to it. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 23 10:16:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA08451; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3246BF95.24D0@worldonline.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 18:49:25 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: electron and positon direction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YGRNE1.0.t32.qAiHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all. I have a question regarding the electron and positon directions in a magnetic field ( two fields properly speaking ). I don't know of this is the place to ask for this kind of answers so let me know if this is the wrong place to ask. anyway it's something like this: /-- part of coil ---\ / \ | |- magnet | | N | N -- ----- -- | | / | \ | | | | / | \ | | | | ..|S + N| | | | | | \ | / | | | | | \ | / | | -- | ----- -- S | S | |- electron and positon 1) The (rectangle) coil has a weaker field than the magnet. 2) The magnet is imaged as a stave magnet but the magnetic poles are on the (two halve) round sides. Witch way goes the elektron ( to coil or magnet ) ? Wicht way goes the positon ( to coil or magnet ) ? If the coil has a stronger magnetic field are the directions than still the same ? P.S: Don't mind my english,i know its (probable) bad [ but i'm a dutchman (NL) ] -- Ronald. -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 23 12:35:36 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA14176; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 12:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:37:58 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: electron and positon direction Resent-Message-ID: <"onh8z1.0.PT3.gNkHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi all. > >I have a question regarding the electron and positon directions >in a magnetic field ( two fields properly speaking ). >I don't know of this is the place to ask for this kind of answers >so let me know if this is the wrong place to ask. > >anyway it's something like this: > > /-- part of coil ---\ > / \ > | |- magnet | > | > N | N > -- ----- -- > | | / | \ | | > | | / | \ | | > | | ..|S + N| | | > | | | \ | / | | > | | | \ | / | | > -- | ----- -- > S | S > | > |- electron and positon > >1) The (rectangle) coil has a weaker field than > the magnet. >2) The magnet is imaged as a stave magnet but the > magnetic poles are on the (two halve) round sides. > >Witch way goes the elektron ( to coil or magnet ) ? >Wicht way goes the positon ( to coil or magnet ) ? >If the coil has a stronger magnetic field are the >directions than still the same ? > >P.S: Don't mind my english,i know its (probable) bad > [ but i'm a dutchman (NL) ] > > >-- Ronald. -- If you were an electron and heading into a uniform magnetic field with parallel filed lines that goes left to right in front of you, that is a N pole is on your left, a S pole is on your right, you will feel an upward force. If you are a positron you will feel a downward force. You are not attracted to one pole or the other. However, such fields are not uniform, but usuall form a kind of two ended bottle. If you enter toward one side or the other the field lines in front of you will not be left to right, but on a diagonal. Your flight path will be diverted toward the pole to which you are closest. If your velocity is not large enough you may be trapped in a magnetic bottle going back and forth between the poles of the bottle, gradually slowing down as you radiate away your energy and eventuall slip out the ends of the bottle or collide with some other particle. In the diagram above, the particle first goes through repelling S-S field lines, which may present a nearly zero magnetic field to it at the location shown, or may divert it many possible directions, depending on the strength of the fields and the velocity of the particle. Assuming the particle goes through the S-S field in the drawing above, when it gets to the N-S field it will be bent upwards out of the page if it is and electron and downwards if it is a positron. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 23 16:44:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA07327; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:34:54 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Yellow diode radiation detector flaw? Resent-Message-ID: <"iaKN63.0.Oo1.mtnHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I finally managed to print a large and quality copy of Glen's cicruit diagram GIF tday from my Mac using Pagemaker. Finally figured out you have to turn on the high precision graphics option, and also hold down the shift key when you expand the image to full page by dragging the corner. I have a hypothesis for where the signal may be coming from. The photo diode is shown opposing a reverse bias of roughly 9 V. When the photodiode is replaced by an ordinary diode covered with paint this makes the ordinary diode simply a capacitor. The difference between the diodes tested may have only been their capacitance when reverse biased by 9 V. It appears the source of the signal may have been the ground bus. The ground can carry signals even on a truly grounded system, but a battery system really has no ground, just + and - rails. One test would be to replace the yellow diode with a variable capacitor and/or a capacitance substitution box and see if the effect persists and is "tunable". Another good test might be to mave the yellow diode well away from the circuit board by attaching it through a coaxial cable or shielded twisted pair to see if the effect goes with the diode or the board. Again, may have to do some impedence matching when the cable is introduced to get the effect back. My suspicion is that the diode in series with the loudspeaker inductance (and or the UA meter), or some part of them, even when not a complete circuit, makes a tuned oscillator, a receiver. It is possible that what is received is accoustic energy, that the loudspeaker receives high pitch sound from the flyback transformer core in a monitor or TV and produces an AC signal on the ground bus. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Sep 23 16:45:45 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA07343; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:34:48 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Yellow diode radiation detector and books Resent-Message-ID: <"zz-Z5.0.eo1.otnHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Much thanks to Glen Sawyer for posting the now very readable circuit diagram for the yellow diode radiation detector at: Also much thanks to Glen for referencing the source of the diagram, the "Encyclopedia of Electronic Circuits" published by TAB Books, which is a division of McGraw Hill. I have been attempting to learn some electronics in my spare time (Ha! Joke.) the last year or so. For the benefit of any other amateurs like me here is maybe a useful saga. I have been learning electronics mostly by reading books, and saving to buy a good oscilloscope and test equipment. Using the ISBN supplied by Glen I ordered the book to get some more documentation and a clear copy of the diagram (prior to the new posting by Glen.) It was about $60 and I didn't like the delivery time. After ordering through my local bookstore it occurred to me to call TAB books. I found out from them TAB books is a division of McGraw Hill. I called back on McGraw Hill's 800 number to save money. That number is 1-800-262-4729. I then found out the book is really a five volue encyclopedia, roughly $60 per volume or about $35 per volume in papaerback, and that I had really only ordered the first book of five from my local bookstore. Ouch! (Needless to say I shortly thereafter cancelled the original order.) I then asked if there was maybe a book club or something whereby I could get a discount. They said there was but I would have to sign the agreement to be able to order that way. They mailed me a xeroxed one page agreement which appeared to be a standard offer. If you join the Electronic Engineer's Book Club you get vols 1-4 of the Encylopedea of Electronic Circuits for $14.95, but you have to order 3 more books in the next 2 years at a typical discount of about 50%. Wow, was I liking this! I mailed off the order. No cash required, they will bill. It will probably come 4th class, which to Alaska means about 5 or more weeks by barge, but that is OK. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 00:03:46 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA13132; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 00:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324840D3.472F@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:13:07 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Yellow diode radiation detector flaw? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ANPa3.0.4D3._TuHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > I finally managed to print a large and quality copy of Glen's cicruit > diagram GIF tday from my Mac using Pagemaker. Finally figured out you snip .. Glad it Worked for you Horace. > The photo diode is shown opposing a reverse bias of roughly 9 V. When the photodiode is replaced by an ordinary diode covered with paint this makes the ordinary diode simply a capacitor. The difference between the diodes > tested may have only been their capacitance when reverse biased by 9 V. It appears the source of the signal may have been the ground bus. The ground can carry signals even on a truly grounded system, but a battery system really has no ground, just + and - rails. Possibly so. > One test would be to replace the yellow diode with a variable capacitor > and/or a capacitance substitution box and see if the effect persists and is "tunable". Another good test might be to mave the yellow diode well away from the circuit board by attaching it through a coaxial cable or shielded twisted pair to see if the effect goes with the diode or the board. Again, This is what we in fact did, the "probe" was fed via a length of RG-174 into the shielded box that housed the electronics. > may have to do some impedence matching when the cable is introduced to get the effect back. >My suspicion is that the diode in series with the loudspeaker inductance > (and or the UA meter), or some part of them, even when not a complete > circuit, makes a tuned oscillator, a receiver. It is possible that what is received is accoustic energy, that the loudspeaker receives high pitch sound from the flyback transformer core in a monitor or TV and produces an AC signal on the ground bus. > I would accept this as a partial explanation, however - in the early experiments neither the meter nor the Speaker were used ( cheapskate ouptut techniques used ) !! - Just the output LED as an indicator. This removes any Capacitive - Reactance - inductive feedback effects from that particular source of potential (aka possible) - we only connected up the meter and / or speaker ( 3.5 mm socket and "mini-headset" ) later on to "hear / see" what we were detecting. Hey this is GOOD feedback, if a few more build up the circuit and test it out - then we may eventually determine the true nature of the field being detected. Remember though that it WAS designed to be a Radiation Detector, My own thoughts are that (as proven) even with a shielded diode - the thing is detecting low level radiation - whether this in in the X-Ray range or Higher in the Spectrum is the next thing we need to determine. Speak to you all again soon. -- Best regards, Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com email #3: wicen@hotmail.com Emergency Amateur radio communications Amateur Radio operators may try vk5zcf@vk5lz.#adl.#sa.aus.oc (this will NOT work from the Internet)! Pages are at .. http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer/welcome.html MID-FM 87.6 +61 85 663600 , Outback Communications +61 85 663236 (Business Hrs phone calls ONLY) Lighting, Audio, Special Effects & Custom Software development ( for both DOS & Windows ) Call NOW ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 06:19:14 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA24504; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:17:54 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Push-Gravity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v8keI1.0.n-5.6-zHo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, Horace Heffner wrote: > Here's a little defense of my prior statement, though maybe redundant > because a rose is a rose is a rose :). There are many people who don't > "believe" in a centrifugal force or refer to it. I don't know if you are > one of those Bill. The anti-centrifugal-force stuff is misguided. I suspect it started out because some schoolkids thought that a spinning object generated a sort of weird, outwards-pushing gravity field, and they named it "centrifugal force." This field doesn't exist, of course. But if you stand on the inner surface of a large, hollow, spinning cylinder, your feet push outwards (centrifugal) on the surface and the surface pushes inwards (centripetal) on your feet as it guides you around in a circle. Forces always come in pairs. In fighting against the illusory outward-pushing field idea, people have got everyone confused about the real forces. Centrifugal force exists, but it is always connected with an equal and opposite centripetal force. If you get rid of the cylinder and put an attractive planet in the middle, the pair of forces are still there, they are the two "ends" of the gravity force vector: you pull on the planet, the planet pulls on you. > In any case that force is simply inertia, the > resistance of matter to acceleration, the change in speed and/or direction. > To make an object move in a circle takes a force to cause that > acceleration. Some people like to call the force pulling inward to the > circle centrepital (in the case of the back side of an object like the > earth the stress transmitted through the object by molecular attraction, > the electrostatic force), and call the balancing outward force exerted by > the matter due to inertia, centrifugal The elongation of an object in > freefall (which is just a special case orbital, true?) is due to the > inertia of the trailing edge, which does not have the same gravitational > pull on it as the leading edge. That inertia resists the greater > gravitational force accelerating the leading edge. The imbalance in force > is transmitted throught the object by molecules of the object. A free > falling object, though weightless from its perspective, can know if it is > in a powerful radial gravitational field because the tidal forces can > strech it into the famous spaghetti shape. If an additonal retarding > force, like fingers or surrounding fluids, is imposed on a body > experiencing tidal forces, the structural effects get much more complex. > Many different shapes can arise. And they do. In some places on earth there are *more* than two high tides per day. Other places have two unequal high tides. The tidal force gives approximately equal stretching force everywhere, but the land and ocean shapes are complex, and can be driven into resonant sloshing motion. > >I've seen the magnetic version of tides before. I was playing with > >ferrofluid droplets in a dish of oil. When I waved a magnet below, all > > Wow! Cool! What did you use for the ferrofluid? I had some sitting around from an old museum exhibit, from Ferrofluidics Inc., I think. If anyone wants a sample, send me a little bottle well-packed against breakage, and a few bucks to cover postage. I only have about a half pint, so I can't give very large samples. This is the water-based variety. It's also the type with the stable surface which doesn't break up into spines when a field is applied. I wonder if Ferrofluidics is on WWW. Maybe more interesting samples can be had from them. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 06:32:49 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA27043; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 05:35:57 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Yellow diode radiation detector flaw? Resent-Message-ID: <"fkjgs3.0.Rc6.GA-Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:13 PM 9/24/96, Glenville Sawyer wrote: >Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] > >> Another good test might be to mave the yellow diode "mave?" - I really must do something about my brain/hand connection, sorry >well away from the circuit board by attaching it through a coaxial cable >or shielded twisted pair to see if the effect goes with the diode or the >board. Again, > > > This is what we in fact did, the "probe" was fed via a length of > RG-174 into the shielded box that housed the electronics. > > [snip This is really amazing news! I assume the "signal" went with the probe and not the board. How long was the cable? Can you give any more information about the yellow diode, like mfr, specs? Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 07:12:24 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA04896; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 07:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:31:35 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960917091238.3c575348@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: MICHAEL C SLIVINSKI Subject: Re: Yellow diode radiation detector flaw? Resent-Message-ID: <"8Os_p.0.JC1.Xl-Ho"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:35 AM 9/24/96 -0800, you wrote: >At 1:13 PM 9/24/96, Glenville Sawyer wrote: >>Horace Heffner wrote: >[snip] >> >>> Another good test might be to mave the yellow diode > > "mave?" - I really must do something about my brain/hand connection, sorry > >>well away from the circuit board by attaching it through a coaxial cable >>or shielded twisted pair to see if the effect goes with the diode or the >>board. Again, >> >> >> This is what we in fact did, the "probe" was fed via a length of >> RG-174 into the shielded box that housed the electronics. >> >> >[snip > >This is really amazing news! I assume the "signal" went with the probe and >not the board. > >How long was the cable? > >Can you give any more information about the yellow diode, like mfr, specs? > > >Regards, > PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 >Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 > Hello this Mike Slivinski, Just as an interesting ( I hope) comment. I was at a vandguard meeting and Jerry Decker heads it up. At the eemting a gentleman mentioned a friend of his ( I suspect Texas Instruments) works with testing banks of ir diodes. And he noticed in pulsating these diodes set up is some sort of bank or arrays, that certain diodes would put a pulsed force. not all of them just a few oddballs. and if a piece of tissue paper was placed in from of it, it would sway like some cosmic breeze or sometype of projectile hit it.It did not damage the tissue, just reacted to show a movement. The gentleman says he shall have more info on it in the future. If I hear more or you want more info, Jerry web master with keely net texas, might be of assistance. this story told just last thursday. thanks mike. This story was heard first hand, not a ( I heard from a friend of his uncle who new a friend type of fifth hand account). Thanks Mike S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 10:11:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA17774; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 13:07:04 -0400 (EDT) From: George Elston To: William Beaty cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Push-Gravity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2s0Kv2.0.XL4.KL1Io"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > Wow! Cool! What did you use for the ferrofluid? > > I had some sitting around from an old museum exhibit, from Ferrofluidics > Inc., I think. If anyone wants a sample, send me a little bottle > well-packed against breakage, and a few bucks to cover postage. I only > have about a half pint, so I can't give very large samples. This is the > water-based variety. It's also the type with the stable surface which > doesn't break up into spines when a field is applied. > > I wonder if Ferrofluidics is on WWW. Maybe more interesting samples can > be had from them Ferrofluidics Corporation 40 Simon Street Nashua, New Hampshire 03061 Phone: (603) 883-9800 / Fax: (603) 883-2308 (800) 603-3776... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 12:24:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA19965; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:20:47 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Push-Gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"V9Kma1.0.mt4.kD3Io"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 6:17 AM 9/24/96, William Beaty wrote: > >The anti-centrifugal-force stuff is misguided. I suspect it started out >because some schoolkids thought that a spinning object generated a sort of >weird, outwards-pushing gravity field, and they named it "centrifugal >force." This field doesn't exist, of course. But if you stand on the >inner surface of a large, hollow, spinning cylinder, your feet push >outwards (centrifugal) on the surface and the surface pushes inwards >(centripetal) on your feet as it guides you around in a circle. Forces >always come in pairs. In fighting against the illusory outward-pushing >field idea, people have got everyone confused about the real forces. >Centrifugal force exists, but it is always connected with an equal and >opposite centripetal force. If you get rid of the cylinder and put an >attractive planet in the middle, the pair of forces are still there, they >are the two "ends" of the gravity force vector: you pull on the planet, >the planet pulls on you. I earlier wrote: > >> In any case that force is simply inertia, the >> resistance of matter to acceleration, the change in speed and/or direction. >> To make an object move in a circle takes a force to cause that >> acceleration. Thanks for the response on this. I think we are totally in agreement about definition of centrifugal force. Your response clears up a mystery for me. I always wonderd how *anyone* could say a centrifugal force does not exist, when you can clearly feel it anytime you swing a baseball bat, etc. There is a centripetal force exerted by your hands, gravity, etc., how can anyone not believe there is a counter force exerted by the object, or refuse to name it. It just does not give Newton his due. It seemed to me like like refusing to use the word "pressure", and demanding people refer to "massive kinetic molecular interation" or something else more first principle oriented. I never dreamed anyone would consider the centrifugal force a "field" or a fundamental force of nature. This explains some of the truly bizarre statements I have seen in the past and the motivation for some people to refuse to use the word "centrifugal force", despite it's clear usefulness. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Sep 24 21:59:58 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA06431; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609250454.VAA26232@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: don smith Resent-Message-ID: <"MMSKl2.0.Oa1.ugBIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all:A friend showed me some material a couple of days ago, about a device that was built by Don Smith, he says he saw one device, that worked with a three amp hour battery and a one hundred watt inverter, run a thousand watt load. The device he saw, consisted of an inverter, a neon transformer, a simple handwound aircore transformer, a rheostat, a couple of diodes,a high voltage bridge rectifier, and a couple of capacitors. This unit is supposed to tap the electricity in the ground, it also has a feedback system that feeds electrostatic energy back to the battery. Has anyone succesfully or unsuccesfully built this project, or have any [feedback] on it.It seems that all these systems that run longer than expected, use a feedback system that feeds electrostatic energy back to the battery. Any input would be appreciated. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 00:14:40 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA29857; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <322E1312.3085@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 16:38:58 -0700 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Yellow diode radiation detector flaw? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SIbQ62.0.QI7.2kDIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > This is really amazing news! I assume the "signal" went with the probe and > not the board. > > How long was the cable? Well Horace the coax was (about) 2.5 - 3 feet long ( Yeah I know Australia has been metric for years - but I still order timber as 4 x 2 's !! > > Can you give any more information about the yellow diode, like mfr, specs? Unfortunately not, it was one of several in the Junk box, originally purchased as a "Grab-Bag" of mixed LED's from a component supplier (Dick Smith Electronics) - these are most likely sourced out of the cheapest site possible - probably Taiwan, from the lowest bidder I think if anyone is going to try this - just use what you can find the empirical approach is what is needed here. -- Best regards, Glenville T. Sawyer email #1: gsawyer@dove.net.au (primary & best address) email #2: kapunda@hotmail.com email #3: wicen@hotmail.com Emergency Amateur radio communications Amateur Radio operators may try vk5zcf@vk5lz.#adl.#sa.aus.oc (this will NOT work from the Internet)! Pages are at .. http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer/welcome.html MID-FM 87.6 +61 85 663600 , Outback Communications +61 85 663236 (Business Hrs phone calls ONLY) Lighting, Audio, Special Effects & Custom Software development ( for both DOS & Windows ) Call NOW ! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 04:22:49 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA09045; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 04:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <9609251122.AA0177@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: "Charlie Hodgson" To: "freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 07:22:11 -0400 Reply-To: "Charlie Hodgson" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.52 For OS/2 UNREGISTERED SHAREWARE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: don smith Resent-Message-ID: <"fG6QN1.0.ED2.XMHIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 24 Sep 1996 21:54:37 -0700 (PDT), wesly crosiar wrote: >It seems that >all these systems that run longer than expected, use a feedback system that >feeds electrostatic energy back to the battery. Any input would be appreciated. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That how they do it :) Charlie Who is Don Alphonso, and Charlie Hodgson what's all this about tweezers? Team OS/2 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 08:41:15 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24842; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 08:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609251525.IAA21397@denmark.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: don smith Resent-Message-ID: <"Vnxh42.0._36.HyKIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:54 PM 9/24/96 -0700, you wrote: >Has anyone succesfully or unsuccesfully built this project, or have any [feedback] on it. Don Smith's book is "An Answer to America's Energy Deficit" ($19.95 item # 290003) available at Int'l Tesla Society bookstore at (800)397-0137. Sounds interesting I'll buy the book and check it out. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 14:10:42 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA14271; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609252059.NAA07934@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: chandler Resent-Message-ID: <"oEZTn1.0.uU3.bpPIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Has anyone heard from Tim Chandler in the last two or three months? I need to talk to him. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 16:04:25 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA12257; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 16:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3249B857.F0B@worldonline.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 00:55:19 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electron and positon direction References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PpvmM1.0.P_2.DcRIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wrote > > ( my diagram of magnets and particles ). > > (questions about direction of electron and positron). Horace Heffner wrote: > If you were an electron and heading into a uniform magnetic field with > parallel filed lines that goes left to right in front of you, > that is a N pole is on your left,a S pole is on your right, > you will feel an upward force. If you are a positron you will feel a > downward force. You are not attracted to one pole or the other. > However, such fields are not uniform, but usuall form a kind of two > ended bottle. If you enter toward one side or the other the field lines > in front of you will not be left to right, but on a diagonal. > Your flight path will be diverted toward the pole to which you are > closest. > If your velocity is not large enough you may be trapped in > a magnetic bottle going back and forth between the poles of the bottle, > gradually slowing down as you radiate away your energy and > eventuall slip out the ends of the bottle or collide with some other > particle. > ( Specific reply on the diagram ). > > Regards, > PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 > Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 So as i understand it now: If there is a stave magnet with its N-pole left and its S-pole on the right side, an Electron goes always in a upward direction, and a Positron always in a downward direction ? (if the magnet was in front of them). If the velocity of the particles is not to large,they may be trapped in the magnetic bottle going back and forth between the poles of the bottle. So the Electron goes: 1) somewhere in the upper half part of the magnetic field (180 degr). 2) floats (in the upper half part of field) to the S-pole direction.? 3) goes through the magnet ( from the S to the N-pole ). 4) floats (in the upper half part of field lines ) from the N-pole back to the S-pole. 5) repeating step 1-4 until it has radiated its energy or collide with some other particle. The Positron goes: Similar as the Electron, but in the lower half part of the field ? ( direction (in the field) also from the S to the N-pole ? ). If this is correct than if you take the magnet between your fingers and rotate it on its own as, the surrounding field does not rotate but stays the same ? So if the magnet is moved a metre to left (or right) the magnetic field on this place is actualy another field than the first field ? ( like a hollow pipe with a ventilator in the middle of it, making a similar air field, but with other air ). Is some of this right, or have i made some big errors here ? ( not counting my syntax errors ). Regards, Ronald de Mol From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 18:35:41 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA19557; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:30:47 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Perreault device In-Reply-To: <324961CA.48B@cyberportal.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_P7Cf3.0.Sn4.WpTIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Message I received... .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page On Wed, 25 Sep 1996, "Bruce A. Perreault" wrote: > Please post this rebutal to your site... > From: nuenergy Full-Name: Bruce A. Perreault To: next-gen@ix.netcom.com Subject: Internet response X-Status: New X-Mailer: Juno 1.00 Mr. Humphrey attitude is a prime example of a person for whatever reason has failed to reproduce the Moray device. It is unfortunate that he takes the attitude "if I can not do it, then I will make sure that no one else does." You have to feel sorry for these types of people for about 20 nanoseconds. Throughout history these people have always existed and now is no different. History has shown that the more viab le an invention or idea, the more the detractors craw out of the primordial oz that they craw back into after they have been proven wrong. I am now here on the net to prove wrong those who are the real disseminator's of "disinformation." Yes, I did sign an agreement with Reed Huish, but it was for an atomic battery, not the Moray device. I have filled my end of my agreement with Reed. However, Reed at this point in time has not supplied the required radioactive material, but I know h e will pull through in time. Can any of you go to the local drug store to purchase radioactive materials? What is wrong with signing an agree with Mr. Huish anyway? I find him to be a decent and honest human being. I have not "sold-out"and never will. P eople require contracts to keep honest men honest. What are the required "technical" materials to rebuild the Moray device? The $39 3/4" booklet contained "mountains" of technical information. I got numerous of complaints about the amount of this information. Most people could not consume this much info. Most people are not brain surgeons. The mountains of data did not serve to make things clear. The data confused people even further so I had to omit the material. The original prototype produced 200 watts for about seven months. The tube used radium chloride that was scraped from old clock dials. Anyone who has called me knows this, including Mr. Humphrey. The chemical tube in the manual is shown as proof of principle. As many of you know the real McCoy requires radio material. I have never intentionally concealed this fact. However, until now I have been extremely careful of how I have presented this fact. Future letters to this site will focus on the actual workings of the Moray device. I am making it clear today that I am still in the research stage, the prototypes are not perfected. I offer research guides to people who want to contribute to the dev elopment of a marketable Moray generator. I do not have a product for sale. In fact, I have taken money out of my own pocket to make available information. Getting back to people on the phone costs me small fortunes. The price of updated information that I offer I believe to be fair. I do not add fluff to my booklets. If you want fluff then you can go get a book from Barnes and Nobel. I keep a mailing list of all who have received information from me. When a product is available these people will get the best deals. Many of these people will receive first dibs on dealerships. To get free updates on the Moray device go to; http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/nuenergy/ You can send e-mail to; nuenergy@juno.com A copy of this response is being sent to Mr. Humphrey... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 22:43:11 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA09033; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609260541.WAA28137@serbia.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: don smith Resent-Message-ID: <"d8e_73.0.yC2.MUXIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:54 PM 9/24/96 -0700, you wrote: >To all:A friend showed me some material a couple of days ago, about a device >that was built by Don Smith, he says he saw one device, that worked with a >three amp hour battery and a one hundred watt inverter, run a thousand watt >load. Sounds very interesting, especially the 1Kw output. What kind of material did you see? The device he saw, consisted of an inverter, a neon transformer, a >simple handwound aircore transformer, a rheostat, a couple of diodes,a high >voltage bridge rectifier, and a couple of capacitors. This unit is supposed >to tap the electricity in the ground, it also has a feedback system that >feeds electrostatic energy back to the battery. Sounds simple enough to build. The feedback system could mean that the input system is not consumed but only required to cohere the energy source. > Has anyone succesfully or >unsuccesfully built this project, or have any [feedback] on it. I ordered Smith's book from the ITS bookstore today. Don Smith also did a workshop at the annual ITS Symposium in July and there is a video available. He seems to want to communicate his device for others to also verify his discovery. >It seems that all these systems that run longer than expected, use a feedback system that feeds electrostatic energy back to the battery. Any input would be appreciated. >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 > There are many different approaches as to how to achieve o/u. Don Smith's device sounds similar to what Tesla, Moray, Hendershot and others, that tried to translate, capture and utilize scalar energy, space energy, or aether energy via electrical resonance. Regards, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Sep 25 23:21:34 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA14643; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 22:25:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: electron and positon direction Resent-Message-ID: <"WaMPu1.0.ia3.m2YIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [snip] >So as i understand it now: >If there is a stave magnet with its N-pole left and its S-pole on the >right side, an Electron goes always in a upward direction, and a >Positron I am talking about a gap between two poles, N on the left, S on the right. >always in a downward direction ? (if the magnet was in front of them). >If the velocity of the particles is not to large,they may be trapped in >the magnetic bottle going back and forth between the poles of the >bottle. > >So the Electron goes: >1) somewhere in the upper half part of the magnetic field (180 degr). No, it is bent upwards but to determine how far the path is bent you need to do some calculations. >2) floats (in the upper half part of field) to the S-pole direction.? No, it doesn't float, it goes around in circles, its path continuously being bent by the magnetic field. >3) goes through the magnet ( from the S to the N-pole ). If trapped it will eventually hit the poles or, if an air core electromagnet it may go through the center of the magnet and escape out the other end. Trapping a particle in a magnetic bottle requires that it radiate some of its energy or that it collides with some particle before escaping. >4) floats (in the upper half part of field lines ) from the N-pole back > to the S-pole. No, not upper half. the particle can range all over the place as it bounces back and forth between the poles and moves in a counter-clockwise circle as seen from the S pole). >5) repeating step 1-4 until it has radiated its energy or collide with > some other particle. > >The Positron goes: > Similar as the Electron, but in the lower half part of the field ? > ( direction (in the field) also from the S to the N-pole ? ). No, it is not restricted to the top of the field. Its path is bent downward in a N-S left to right field, but it can move all over the inside of the "magnetic bottle", just like the electron. The only difference is that it goes around the opposite way inside the bottle (clockwise if sitting on the S pole looking towards the N). > >If this is correct than >if you take the magnet between your fingers and rotate it on its own as, >the surrounding field does not rotate but stays the same ? The field rotates with a permanent magnet. > >So if the magnet is moved a metre to left (or right) the magnetic field >on this place is actualy another field than the first field ? The field moves with the magnet. >( like a hollow pipe with a ventilator in the middle of it, making a >similar air field, but with other air ). > >Is some of this right, or have i made some big errors here ? >( not counting my syntax errors ). > >Regards, > >Ronald de Mol It would be very worthwhile for you to obtain an introductory book on physics from the library and read about electricity and magnetism. I think we have already exceeded my limited ability to communicate clearly. Regards, PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 26 19:46:55 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA11926; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199609270237.WAA14234@hammurabi.nh.ultra.net> From: "Brian L. Smith" To: "FreeEnergyList" Subject: Book on theory of anti-gravity Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:27:04 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PaVOG2.0.Dw2.6upIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I just read a post on the usenet and was wondering if any of you have ordered and read this book (Dipole Anti-Gravity by Eue Jin Jeong.) If so what did you think? Sounds pretty interesting. Here is a partial copy of the post: This is the first consistent theory of anti-gravity in the history of mankind. The book reveals the secrets of the the following prominent mysteries of the present day life. 1. Time Warp Interstellar Travel 2. Wormhole Engineering, Dipole Antigravity Drive 3. Exotic Matter Hypothesis by Frank Tipler 4. Breakdown of Newtonian Mechanics 5. Reactionless Propulsion Mechanism 6. Gravitational Free Energy 7. Alien Visitation ---- This web-site has a bit more info on the book and ordering info. http://www.realtime.net/~ejeong/ Thought this might be of interest, Brian Smith RimStar Technology, Inc. Programmer's Editor for Win32 and OS/2 www: http://www.rimstar.com Tel: (603) 778-2500 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 26 21:16:59 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA00972; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:14:42 -0700 (PDT) From: NLSilliman@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 00:14:00 -0400 Message-ID: <960927001359_294529609@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"S6Qjx3.0.3F.mIrIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bill Beaty speaking. >>>The earth is ALWAYS falling towards the sun, but it flys sideways equally >>>so it never approaches. And the gravity field is pulling with unequal >>>strength on different parts of the earth, stretching it. >>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) answered: > >... The only case where there is no tidal effect is when the object >acted upon is dimensionless. > A 3 dimensional object is not all located at a single distance from >anything, therefore you can conclude that the force on individual points >within that object are not all the same. There must therefore be an >internal force, or more specifcially a force gradient, .... > >>para@lakeweb.net (Dan Bloomquist) answered: > > You are right, as long as the gravitational > field is not strong enough to measure a gradient. and> > i.e. There is a gradient across the object > that cause more force on one end. You could > measure the strain of the stretch that is > created. This will happen only in very strong > fields with current technology (I believe). >>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) continued: >An object will be stretched if you apply two same direction but different >magnitude forces to opposite ends of the object regardless of whether the >forces are push or pull. The existence of tidal forces does not resolve >whether gravity is a push (radiated from everywhere there is mass as a push >but manifest as a pull in the gravity shadow of a mass) or pull force. and his definition of free fall - >Objects moving directly toward each other, orbital eccentricity infinite. >The tidal effects, which are not readily observed near earth, would be >inescapable near a black hole. All these statements insists that gravity must be a 'pulling', stretching force. But - 1. We have no mechanism that does 'pull' from a distance, 2. The affect of gravity appears to effect every atom/molecule of all materials uniformly. 3. The force from gravity falls off as the 3rd power of the distance, so the effect of gravity from the Sun is much, much smaller than the surface tension of water, (very great distance), 4. The same is true for the gravity from the moon, (great distance, lesser mass) So, how do we get any tidal effects? For 2 above, the only 'experiment' that I know about is the pranks of the people in the space shuttle throwing liquids around, and then catching the globules to drink. The liquids form spheres that have no noticeable flattening (elongating) shape. The surface tension overpowers any gradient across the object, if there is any gradient. And the earth's gravitational 'field', 'pull', or 'force' is stronger than the sun or the moon. So, how do we get ANY tidal effects on an object in free fall? The fact that we have tides is not enough reason to assume that there is something called 'gravitational gradient'. >hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) continued: > >I am no expert - at anything, just retired and an amateur whatever... Maybe not an 'expert' but surely knowledgeable and willing to think things through. Is Bill Beaty just repeating the formal gospel of physics about 'the gravity field is pulling with unequal strength on different part of the earth', or does he know of experimental proof? Norm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Sep 26 22:32:05 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA14460; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324B617E.63C4@lakeweb.net> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 22:09:18 -0700 From: Dan Bloomquist Organization: lakeWeb Internet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: gravity References: <960927001359_294529609@emout14.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bRsBr.0.mX3.dBsIo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dan writes: OK, I'll try this... > >>hheffner@anc.ak.net (Horace Heffner) continued: > > >An object will be stretched if you apply two same direction but different > >magnitude forces to opposite ends of the object regardless of whether the > >forces are push or pull. The existence of tidal forces does not resolve > >whether gravity is a push (radiated from everywhere there is mass as a push > >but manifest as a pull in the gravity shadow of a mass) or pull force. > First, everything we conclude about the nature of physics is by observation only. It can't be any other way. So we conclude that masses attract because that is what we observe. It could be true that mass shadows a universal push in the academic observations. With the observation of the anti-gravity device the conclusion of push is much more obscure. It would require the mass that is doing the shadowing to be overridden by the device after the fact. grav-push->->->->->LARGE_MASS device->->->->test_body instead of: LARGE_MASS<-<-<-<- >Objects moving directly toward each other, orbital eccentricity infinite. > >The tidal effects, which are not readily observed near earth, would be > >inescapable near a black hole. > > All these statements insists that gravity must be a 'pulling', stretching > force. No, only that the streaching force is there. And it is proven by observation. Again, observation is our only link to physical reality. > > But - 1. We have no mechanism that does 'pull' from a distance, We do because we observe it. Observation is the fundametal of physics. An inportant point about physics is that it is not explainable. We attach a lot of logical theory to what we observe and then call it.... Dan. -- Niccolo' Machiavelli, The Dale Carnagie of Fascism. (DanB) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 27 15:28:08 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA27544; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:08:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 13:09:24 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Coral castle samples Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"h5R2b1.0.Fk6.t15Jo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Can anyone here help this person below? ................................freenrg-L.................................... William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:24:24 -0700 (PDT) From: craig To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Comments from Weird Science --- comments --- Hi Bill...enjoy your webpage...just a quick comment regarding the Coral Castle King in Florida. Some time ago I was told of his secret. I haven't been able to try it out but would be willing to, if i could get a sample of the coral rock that he used. I would have no problem sharing the information but would like to duplicate the experiment before i go around telling everyone incorrect information....can you point me in the right direction? any help you have would be appreciated..thanks From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 27 18:41:17 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA01645; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:22:31 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:22:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199609280049.RAA20036@big.aa.net> X-Sender: mwm@aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 17:49:44 +0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Mandeville Subject: Re: Coral castle samples Resent-Message-ID: <"1NHf7.0.aP.Et7Jo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 01:09 PM 9/27/96 -0700, you wrote: > >Can anyone here help this person below? > >................................freenrg-L.................................... >William Beaty bilb@eskimo.com EE/Programmer/exhibit-designer/science-nerd >Moderator: FREENRG-L VORTEX-L TAOSHUM-L WEBHEAD-L >http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html >Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com voice:206-781-3320 > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 08:24:24 -0700 (PDT) >From: craig >To: billb@eskimo.com >Subject: Comments from Weird Science > > >--- comments --- >Hi Bill...enjoy your webpage...just a quick comment regarding the Coral >Castle King in Florida. Some time ago I was told of his secret. I haven't >been able to try it out but would be willing to, if i could get a sample of >the coral rock that he used. I would have no problem sharing the information >but would like to duplicate the experiment before i go around telling >everyone incorrect information....can you point me in the right direction? >any help you have would be appreciated..thanks > > > My impression is that the Castle has substantial local notoriety. Do you know what town it is in? If you can tell me, then a look up in the CDROM or web yellow pages for a local curio rock shop will yield a phone number of a guy who probably knows quite a bit about Florida corals and the Castle and through him a sample of similar might be arranged. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Sep 27 19:02:28 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA08695; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:45:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199609280145.SAA20152@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: atech@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Dennis C. Lee" Subject: Re: Coral castle samples Resent-Message-ID: <"eoIVr.0.g72.TD8Jo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Do you have to use the same material? There's always the local aquarium supply. Are the dimensions of the coral block significant? John Keely used vibration to reduce the apparent weight of objects. Dale Pond wrote a book on Keely's work and gave charts of harmonic chords that he used. If the method you were told of is similar in principal, perhaps you should seek that book out so you can adapt the theory to other materials. Regards; Dennis C. Lee >Hi Bill...enjoy your webpage...just a quick comment regarding the Coral >Castle King in Florida. Some time ago I was told of his secret. I haven't >been able to try it out but would be willing to, if i could get a sample of >the coral rock that he used. I would have no problem sharing the information >but would like to duplicate the experiment before i go around telling >everyone incorrect information....can you point me in the right direction? >any help you have would be appreciated..thanks From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 28 00:19:13 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03721; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:37:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324C2C78.563A@worldonline.nl> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 21:35:20 +0200 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b6Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: electron and positon direction References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9u7Mo.0.0w.WS5Jo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: [ Snip - (for me) an excellent explanation of electron and positron movement in a magnetic field. ] > It would be very worthwhile for you to obtain an introductory > book on physics from the library and read about electricity > and magnetism. I think we have already exceeded my limited > ability to communicate clearly. > > Regards, > PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645 > Horace Heffner 907-746-0820 I agree, my knowledge of this stuff is really almost zero... ( as you have noticed ). Although i do know now (al last) what you was trying to tell (write) me,i'll go to the library and get some books, because i need many more info on this kind of (interesting) things. Well, at last know all something now. Regards, Ronald de Mol From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 28 07:01:00 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA06168; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 06:58:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Cantino Message-Id: <199609281358.JAA16465@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Subject: New List! To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com (freenrg) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 09:58:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Resent-Message-ID: <"Y4_TU2.0.FW1.1yIJo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A new Science amature science list! You can sign up at: Mail science-request@geeky1.ebtech.net, with subscribe in the subject line. It is really neat. We are talking about the antigravity and other stuff wight now. We talkabout everything from C to Zeon gas. Andrew -- Home page: http://www.seorf.ohiou.edu/~xx053/homepage.html E-Mail: ac817@seorf.ohiou.edu From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Sep 28 07:46:16 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA15344 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:46:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: farout@twd.net Sat Sep 28 07:46:15 1996 Received: from srvr.third-wave.com (root@srvr.third-wave.com [205.217.0.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA15324 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 07:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from third-wave.com.205.217.01 (jst41.third-wave.com [205.217.0.141]) by srvr.third-wave.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA29155 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:36:52 -0400 Message-ID: <324D39DE.4A28@twd.net> Old-Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 10:44:46 -0400 From: farout Organization: human_race.earth.sol X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: water based fuel References: <199609181423.KAA24018@big.seorf.ohiou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: recently I saw a news report on CNN about an herb from India that was mixed with water and could burned in an engine. The location was in India. the report was produced by BBC. Since then I havent seen a word about it in print or on the net. THis would be as cataclysmic as cold fusion if it turns out to be useful. Any one else heard of it? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 29 10:16:01 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16718; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 12:22:13 -0400 X-Sender: richarda@mailhub.icx.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: richarda@icx.net (Richard Austin) Subject: Re: don smith Resent-Message-ID: <"v62O13.0.354.OvgJo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Do you have the Circuit? What is a Neon Transformer? >To all:A friend showed me some material a couple of days ago, about a device >that was built by Don Smith, he says he saw one device, that worked with a >three amp hour battery and a one hundred watt inverter, run a thousand watt >load. The device he saw, consisted of an inverter, a neon transformer, a >simple handwound aircore transformer, a rheostat, a couple of diodes,a high >voltage bridge rectifier, and a couple of capacitors. This unit is supposed >to tap the electricity in the ground, it also has a feedback system that >feeds electrostatic energy back to the battery. Has anyone succesfully or >unsuccesfully built this project, or have any [feedback] on it.It seems that >all these systems that run longer than expected, use a feedback system that >feeds electrostatic energy back to the battery. Any input would be appreciated. >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU http://user.icx.net/~richarda From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Sep 29 10:23:53 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA17837; Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 10:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <324EAFC2.25A3@cyberportal.net> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 13:20:02 -0400 From: "Bruce A. Perreault" Reply-To: nuenergy@cyberportal.net Organization: Nu Energy Horizons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coral castle samples References: <199609280049.RAA20036@big.aa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"004D72.0.XM4.z_gJo"@mail> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The Coral castle coral is probably unique... Aquarium rocks? Give me a break...