Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 01:36:34 -0500 To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: Greetings, Bucking fields >I have a question to start off: >Has anyone here built a Kromrey generator? I have a copy of the patent >(U.S. Patent # 3,374,376 March 19, 1968.) Nope...but I've done a lot of magnetic circuit design and the "bucking" field arrangement will not twist the armature as strongly as the other arrangement will for the same field excitation current - no question about it. You simply won't get as high a field in the air gap with the bucking arrangement. In fact, if it weren't for leakage (a pretty big factor in magnetic circuits) you wouldn't get any field in the gap with the bucking arrangement. It'd be like two batteries (the field coils) and two resistors (the air gaps) all connected in series but with the batteries' positive poles facing each other...no current would flow. Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 02:44:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Now the Bad News To: Freenrg-list@eskimo.com Y'all, In a recent message I reported on some info about an concept I had come up with and which has gone through a certain process thus far. Since it has been bruited about that we can also discuss somewhat off-the-wall experfiences, I thought it only fair to enlighten all about why not much has been done in my area nor why I expect anything will be done. There is that item: scientific methodology. In my instance I do not comply with it at all: I am not a scientist. I have no interest in science. I had no preconceptions about perpetual motion. Actually, I did not have the slightest idea of what it was, really. I did not experiments, per se. I simply built it from a schematic I had in a dream. It worked! It was done in one hour! It was five years, however, before I got an inkling of how it worked, or why. Every application which has succeeded came froma dream. Every attempt on my part, using my own intelligence, has failed. I put this away for 17 years, so that would seem to verify my interest has been sadly lagging. I consider it a gift from God! I do not like this idea at all. I put it out because of two factors: 1. I saw a CNN report where NASA, via Dow Chemical and two Harvard physicists were trying to make a mass move up an incline using permanent magnetics. Since I had offered this to every administration since Ford, I was pissed at the waste of government money (actually partially my money I paid in taxes) for something which had already been done and was free to them. 2. I believe that God wished me to give it away to mankind. I should remark that I have been almost declared insane for this. Not the belief in a PM device, not that God gave it to me, but that I would give it away. I now have a conservator from one federal agency, and the VA tried to do the same, but I beat them in court. One scientist has gone so far as to recommend that I be examined under some form of truth serum to disprove my claim that I am not a scientist and have no knowledge in this area, pre-1975 and the first dream. It has also been suggested that I be jailed for fraud, although I have never taken a penney from anyone. I even pay for sending out the videos I did send out. I have stopped that due to additional medical expenses since being diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. I was certain that there was someone in this wide world who had the brains, resources and guts to develop my concept to a greater degree. It has been almost 22 months since the first replication with no success. I often thought about that? I wonder why. After all, I have dreams which tell me the theories and the designs for applications, but no one else seems to get them. What can be holding back this development? Certainly not me! I put this out into the public almost two years ago. I got on this God kick when I began to read about evolution after the dream. I knew nothing about that and still know little. I am a philosophical theist. What seemed to me most prevalent in evolution, or at least the process, were several factors: 1. A preconception within the organism of a need for a change or a new addition. 2. A good bit of effort. 3. Time! One of the greatest tenets of evolution and points of disagreement with creation seems to be the huge differences in time concepts. It takes huge chunks of time to bring about changes, and even then some never have appeared or been totally explained. Vis-a-vis my dream: 1. No preconceptions at all. No training. I am an eighth grade graduate. I am tested as having a high IQ but I left the orphanage with I was 12 and all education since then has been self-teaching. But I have never had any interest in science. I was in the military, then a policeman for ayear, then a court reporter for 25 years, then a computer programmer/analyst. Never a scientist in any way, shape or form. 2. No effort on my part at all, or certainly miniscule. I built a cardboard frame, bought some permanent magnets as required by the schematic, and put it all together from 3:00 am until 11:00 am the same day. It covered a period of eight hours, but I spen most of the time waiting for the stores to open to buy the magnets and the Tinkertoy wheels I used on the first model. 3. No time at all on the scale of evolutionary or even scientific endeavors, including success on the first try and not knowing even what the hell I was doing. As a matter of fact, the attorney who filed for the patent on this did all the work himself and even with the patent he filed, it was wrong because I did not discover that as he filed the patent, it would never work anyway. He was wrong in all his drawings and claims. I did not discover this for five years. It needs certain magnets and I only bought the right ones because Radio Shack was the only place I knew where they had any magnets. Amazing! I didnt even know what I was doing and bought the only magnets which would work by simple happenstance. In this frame of mind we come to today. I hve concluded that the only reason no one has built the same devices I have built is that some force is preventing it. It is as if I have put out the method to build a combustion engine and no one can build the platform and put wheels under it. It is simply a matter of engineering and scale. Now as for time. I suppose there is a ood side. Because I have had this for 20 years, I can answer, to a degree, the one big question most people would have who might come to believe in my theories: I know how long the magnets have been working! The magnets in my demo are the original ones I bought 20 years ago. They are still function the same as they did back then. Before I gave any signficance to all this, I had two displayes set up in my home in Houston. One was suspension of a mass on an incline, the other suspension of a mass at a 90-dgree angle from the ground, both using my drive concept. I did not put them on any measuring system, but they did not appear to fail to remain in place for a period of over 15 years, continuously. I left them behind in Houston, having really discarded this all. There are many weird happenings, but I will only relate two for now. A Dr. Marion Bowman came to my home in Houston. I forget the year, but he was there for the National Urban League Convention, so I could check and see when it was held in Houston. I would say 1985, around there. He played with my demo for about five minutes and said, "This is the answer to mankind's energy problem." He turned to me and continued, " . . . and it will get you killed." He was with the minority funding group in Washington, for the government. He returned to set things in motion. He checked on my patent application and it was gone, from both the computer and the hard copies. My home was burglarized shortly after he returned to Washington. He then was promoted, retired, and I have never heard from him again. That is fact. The next one is a person cropper. I came in touch with Keely net through Glenda Stocks. In the course of time I downloaded a biogrfaphy of John W. Keely from Jerry Decker. I am not a religious person, but I was amazed at several coincidences I came across: 1. Jhn Keely was born October 18, 1828. I was born October 21, 1928. 2. He was born in Philadelphia. I was born in Philadelphia. 3. He was know to be an orphan. I was an orphan by age 4 months., 4. He was educated to the age of 12. I stopped at age 12 when I left the orphanage. 5. He was a circus performer. I was, for one summer, a perform and candy butcher for Cole Bros. Circus. 6. He seemed to devote the last 25 years of his life to PM concepts or free-energy concepts. If I clock my own time when this all started, I started at about the same time in life that he did, with my dream. Finally, he died November 18, 1898. Six out of seven is quite enough! I am not a believer in reincarnation or any religious group in the world. About two years after I had the dream, I moved to Houston at the request of a court reporter I was affiliated with. When I got there we both went to work for the same company. The three owners, when they saw my device, stated that they knew I was coming. I scoffed at them, naturally. They played a tape of a reading by a 'reader' named Sylvia. She described me physically, said that I had something to do with up and down, and that I would be arriving into their lives within six months. It seemed to fit. They talked me into going. The happening was very disturbing. She mostly told me about myparents, and even a brother who had lived three days and no one had everf heard about. I had always stated I as an only child. My wife of 51 years did not know that I had a brother. Sylvia did. She described my father and materfnal grandfather, and she told me that my grandfather said, "Hang in there, Sonny!" He was the only person who had ever called me that, and no one had ever done so since he died. She told me my father had died an untimely death at a youhg age. He died of a cerebral hemorrhage at 41. It was untimely in the sense that he was a professional fighter and suffered head injuries in the process. She then told me she had a man next to her, a professor . . . She stopped and said, "You won't believe this. He is from outer space. He has been giving you information. It has something to do with up and down. The dies is cast, the mold is in the process." I have no expressed opinion about this, but I will state that my device will not work in outer space where there is no gravity. And the applications I have received in dreams are all premised on an interworking relationship between magnetism and gravity. Without either, nothing works. There are other items which are flaky at best. Although I was diagnosed with clogged arteries, by angiogram, a second angiogram a year later revealed all clogging was gone. I have a falso abdominal aorta due to an aneurysm repair, But before it was done, when I needed a special operation for another item and the aneurysm size was a block for surgery, it shrang long enough for me to have the operation, the ballooned back up. In 1973 I was diagnosed with emphysema and a tumor on my right kidney. A year later there was no trace of emphysema and no traces of the tumor. However, from that day on, my lungs would not fit on a single X-ray plate. So we have problems in several areas, but proof for something, I assure you one and all. And according with my pact with God, I will present a continuous motion device to the world after 1 January 1996, having given science well over two years to come up with one before me. It will be a second proof of my doing something they say cannot be done, and this time, after they have been shown how to do it. Now this may not disturb them, but my purpose now is to show the rest of the world, the masses, that science is at least wrong in this instance, that God has shown His ability far beyond all the capabilities of science, and they are not the Gods of the Universe. I should say that the Catholics, Protestants, including the Mormans, and the Jews have turned down my offers to gvive them this free. The only ones left, really, are the Muslims. Well, they did reign supreme in science at one time; perhaps they can mount the throne again. And scientists may not believe me, but people will. Scientists have always said, "Show me something I can't explain or do," so I will. They will know then, but they will never be able to explain why they did not know and did not build what I built although they had the information, the resources, and abilities to do it; farm more than I ever had, except . . . Case submitted. Stewart Harris PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;32;42mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 2 11:46:36 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA27270 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:46:33 -0700 Received: from oroboros.demon.co.uk (oroboros.demon.co.uk [158.152.100.96]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA27022 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:45:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 18:36:56 GMT From: CRSM@oroboros.demon.co.uk (Chris Morriss) Message-Id: <8934@oroboros.demon.co.uk> To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Introducing Myself - PatHarris (Stewart Harris) X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 15 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Regarding the TMI device. When you say that people have tried to implement this in a circle: do you mean a 2D flat circle or a 3D Ferris wheel or 'hamster in a rotary cage' type of circle. A 2d flat circle appears to be difficult because of the speed difference required between the inner and outer rollers, but a 'hamster exercise cage' wheel should be readily implementable. Forgive me if this has been mentioned before. I've only just joined this list after experimenting with rotary electro-magnetic machines for a while. I've seen occasional anomalies, but never at a level outside of worst case tolerancing of the assembly. Is there anyone on the list with any knowledge of the electro-magnetic experiments and theories of Dr Harold Aspden, ex Southampton University? Bye, -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 2 17:53:57 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01607 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 17:53:49 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA01589 for ; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 17:53:42 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id RAA07588; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 17:53:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 17:53:37 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Harold Aspden In-Reply-To: <8934@oroboros.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HVY6BYYAIA8Y7YDW@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Chris Morriss wrote: ... > Is there anyone on the list with any knowledge of the electro-magnetic > experiments and theories of Dr Harold Aspden, ex Southampton University? I have a couple of articles on Aspden's 'transformer' inventions, ordered from the SEA Journal (Space Energy something). The mail addr is on WEIRD SCIENCE under Unconventional Journals/Newsletters. There is a back-issue index file there too. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 00:06:46 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA25527 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:06:39 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA25493 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:06:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199510030706.AAA25493@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 00:08:08 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: PatHarris Device Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A >It's clear the runner is *released*, not given a push. It has to >be aligned correctly. My guess is the person aligning it feels a >pressure of the runner against his fingers when it's properly >aligned. In the demo, the person aligns it and then simply lays >his finger on the rod to keep it from moving, then removes his >finger, and the runner starts to move immediately. I'm not quite clear on what is happening here. If this device continues to move back and forth, or will go over many, many "hills" of the same height, then it is very important. If it does, then consider a book before somebody else writes one on it. (And all of the organizations into this kind of thing out there will sell it for you). But also, a movie of it on the web would help you sell a book. I have a source now for turning a video into a .avi file for the web. I can't think of a more exciting first use of that equipment and software. So I'd like to try to talk you into sending a video of it, and I can attach the .avi file to an email message to you, for your website if you have one. And I would ask that you let me put the video on my site also. Very interesting. Gotta go. Gary Hawkins __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 00:13:27 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA26570 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:13:25 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA26533 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:13:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199510030713.AAA26533@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 00:14:54 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Greetings Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A > >The patent shows an arrangement of field coils like this: > > Field Coils > / > _____________ / > ____________| |____________ > | | | | > | | | | > | N ____| | ___ S | > |_______| |_____________| |_______| Armature Coils > _______ _______ / > | | | |/ > ____|_______|_______________________|_______|_____ > |__________________________________________________|Shaft > | | | | > |_______| |_______| > _______ _____________ _______ > | |____| |____| | > | S | | N | > | | | | > |____________| |____________| > |_____________| > Simply a note on this type of diagram using Eudora as an email reader. These tend to not display correctly in Eudora for me. But if I run the cursor over it, copy it, and paste it into Notepad, it displays the way the maker intended. Hopefully that will be of some help to those of you who have run into that problem. Gary Hawkins __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 00:39:47 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA00554 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:39:45 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00524 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:39:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199510030739.AAA00524@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 00:41:16 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Now the Bad News Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:44 AM 10/2/95 -0400, you wrote: > >It has also been suggested that I be jailed for fraud, although I >have never taken a penney from anyone. I even pay for sending >out the videos I did send out. I have stopped that due to >additional medical expenses since being diagnosed with >Parkinson's disease. I'd be happy to send you some money for a video of it. gary __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 02:08:30 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA11638 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:08:28 -0700 Received: from bos1d.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1d.delphi.com [192.80.63.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA11624 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 02:08:22 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HVZPN4FFDS920DMI@delphi.com>; Tue, 03 Oct 1995 05:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 05:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: PatHarris Device To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HVZPN4FP0Y920DMI@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" X-VMS-Cc: INTERNET"freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 3-OCT-1995 03:07:26.1 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >>It's clear the runner is *released*, not given a push. It >>has to be aligned correctly. My guess is the person >>aligning it feels a pressure of the runner against his >>fingers when it's properly aligned. In the demo, the person >>aligns it and then simply lays his finger on the rod to keep >>it from moving, then removes his finger, and the runner >>starts to move immediately. >I'm not quite clear on what is happening here. If this >device continues to move back and forth, or will go over >many, many "hills" of the same height, then it is very >important. If it does, then consider a book before somebody >else writes one on it. (And all of the organizations into >this kind of thing out there will sell it for you). What you read above was a description of my device as seen on a videotape I sent to Judy Stein in NYC about 14, 15 months ago. It was first put out in November of 1993, and reproduced by two gentlemen in December of 1993. Although my original demo simply goes up and down two hills, one of the gentleman went to four inclines, and there is really not limit, since, once a runner is introduced into the track, it will climb the incline. My demo uses the same magnets it used 20 years ago. The height of the hills or inclines are identical, and they accelerate up the hill, as they enter each new hill. >But also, a movie of it on the web would help you sell a >book. I have a source now for turning a video into a .avi >file for the web. I can't think of a more exciting first use >of that equipment and software. So I'd like to try to talk >you into sending a video of it, and I can attach the .avi >file to an email message to you, for your website if you have >one. And I would ask that you let me put the video on my site >also. Cannot write a book. I am not a scientist; and if you read the bad news, you would realize I am concerned about the source more than I am the product or its promotion. Besides, it has been stated it violates some laws of physics and I have been through enough of that over the past two years. You see, other than the information I get in dreams, I haven't the slightest idea of what is happening. I stopped sending out videotapes in the hopes that someone else would come up with something. So far, no dice. Here, and for others, is what is being sent out in order for others to build and experiment with their on TOMI device. CONSTRUCTION ------------ To construct your own TOMI (Theory Of Magnetic Instability) device; 1) For the ONE ramp test Buy 30 circular magnets (with the hole in the middle) from Radio Shack, these cost $1.69 for 5 magnets, so the magnets will cost about $10.00 For the TWO ramp test Buy 50 circular magnets (with the hole in the middle) from Radio Shack, about $17.00 2) Take some stiff cardboard and make two hills (each hill consists of an incline and a decline, experiment with the angle, about 30 degrees) 3) Make three rolls (or five rolls if you are using 2 ramps) of 10 magnets each (connect the magnets to form 10 magnet stacks, kind of like a roll of Lifesavers 4) Tape these magnets together with scotch tape 5) The ones for the side of the ramps are called RUNNERS, one other 10 magnet roll is used as the ROLLER that moves up the incline between the RUNNERS 4) On each ramp (incline), you attach one roll of magnets running up each side, so that's two magnet rolls per incline and NONE on the decline 5) The RUNNER magnets on the sides should arranged to be of opposite polarity, that is, North at the top on one side, South at the top on the opposite side 6) The ROLLER should be placed at the base of the ramp with its poles facing like poles on the RUNNERS, since LIKE magnetic poles REPEL, this will provide the repulsion you require to make the ROLLER move up the incline between the RUNNERS. The Pole arrangement should look like this: N S | | | | | | | | S S---------N N Each successive track set and runner should conform to the above configuration and you line them up! The best results will be obtained if you put a strip of cardboard across the back of the first track. Then you simply set the runner onto the track at the base of the incline, see that it is lined up and let it go. Be sure that the runner is close to the tracks on both sides. If you wish, you can get little medicine bottle caps, the kind with rotating tops, and glue the magnets inside of each cap. Then you have wheels and you can change the width of the runner all you like. Pat Harris ***************** Now it is up to your own ingenuity to simply figure what makes it work. If you like to test something and wish to waste some money, then buy two bar magnets and replace the runner sides in the above description. When this fails, you can then figure out why. Then you can take photos and show your own. Since I am not a scientist and a little flaky with my ideas of where this comes from, it is probably best that someone else does write the book. Regards, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;36;42mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 06:40:01 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA17713 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:40:00 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA17704 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:39:55 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id GAA15651; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:39:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:39:54 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: PatHarris Device In-Reply-To: <199510030706.AAA25493@mail.eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Gary Hawkins wrote: > But also, a movie of it on the web would help you sell a book. I have a > source now for turning a video into a .avi file for the web. I can't think of > a more exciting first use of that equipment and software. So I'd like to > try to talk you into sending a video of it, and I can attach the .avi file > to an email message to you, for your website if you have one. > And I would ask that you let me put the video on my site also. Gary, Pat needs blank tapes. But there is a problem. Someone is 'disappearing' his mail. I sent him a box of about 20 tapes (cheap 15-min. VHS from Boeing Surplus) and it vanished in the mail. I haven't got back on this and tried sending insured return-receipt mail. And Boeing Surplus doesn't have $.25 tapes anymore! .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 06:42:34 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA18160 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:42:32 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA18113 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:42:19 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id GAA15726; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:42:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:42:18 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greetings In-Reply-To: <199510030713.AAA26533@mail.eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Gary Hawkins wrote: > Simply a note on this type of diagram using Eudora as an email reader. > These tend to not display correctly in Eudora for me. But if I run the > cursor over it, copy it, and paste it into Notepad, it displays the way > the maker intended. This is a problem with fonts. Is it possible to make Eudora use the Courier font? If so, this will solve the problem. The system font in Windows is proportional, so the size of characters vary, and they don't fit into an organized grid. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 06:53:13 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA20406 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:53:11 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA20390 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:53:06 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id GAA16393; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:53:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:53:04 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Introducing Myself - PatHarris (Stewart Harris) In-Reply-To: <01HVXSAV66768WY7DA@delphi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Pat Harris wrote: > > Hellow Bill & All: > > I am the source of TOMI, The Theory of Magnetic Instability. > > I also have another theory I postulated from the above and the > demonstrable effects therefrom. It is TIRE, the Theory of > Instantaneous Reconstitution of Energy. > > Sorry about the length and seeming posturing of the names but I > am not smart enough to do any better. Welcome Pat! A question: Are you using the Internet World Wide Web? If not, you are missing 3/4 of the internet (some would say 99%!) Delphi should be offering software for Windows that lets you into the gigantic WWW menu system. Need help in setting this up? Anyway, I'd like to create a small Web Site for your material and feature it on my WEIRD SCIENCE website, so all the world will have easy and continuous access. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 07:02:04 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA22444 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:02:02 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA22424 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:01:54 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA17315; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:01:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:01:50 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: FREENRG-LIST subscribers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Here are the current subscribers (got via the 'who freenrg-list' command sent to majordomo@eskimo.com) I'd like to keep a list of our names and addresses so that users of the list can find each other. Anyone who wishes to be on it, please send me (by private email, to bilb@eskimo.com) your name, address, phone number, and web page URL if you have one. If you want to send me just your name and nothing else, that's fine. Anonymity is fine too. This list will be a public page on the FREENRG-LIST web page (not yet built.) On anonymity: the list software will be changed from majordomo to listproc within a few months. Listproc will allow users to remove themselves from the 'who' command listing without removing themselves from the list. But of course if you send a reply to a message, everyone will see your email addr. >>>> who freenrg-list Members of list 'freenrg-list': ghawk@eskimo.com gsteckly@clark.dgim.doc.ca little@eden.com 100602.14@compuserve.com reedh@indirect.com bilb@mail.eskimo.com jshaffer@pennet.net jbell@greatoz.sdi.agate.net PatHarris@delphi.com outlaw@prismnet.com connyo@oden.se w9sz@prairienet.org crsm@oroboros.demon.co.uk chope@escape.com Coildude@aol.com chris@dev2.eng.aat.co.za bpaddock@execpc.com next-gen@ix.netcom.com swassell@sv.span.com lee02016@suffolk.edu Ralph.Knobloch@flinders.edu.au Mattuh@aol.com >>>> .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 07:30:05 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA28613 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:29:57 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA28537; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:29:40 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA19347; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:29:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com cc: Freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Now the Bad News In-Reply-To: <01HVY6BYYAIA8Y7YDW@delphi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Pat Harris wrote: ... > One scientist has gone so far as to recommend that I be examined > under some form of truth serum to disprove my claim that I am not > a scientist and have no knowledge in this area, pre-1975 and the > first dream. > > It has also been suggested that I be jailed for fraud, although I > have never taken a penney from anyone. I even pay for sending > out the videos I did send out. It sounds like you had the bad luck to run afoul the self-nominated defenders of Conventional Physics. These people seem to see the world as a hoard of ignorant infidels who would defile science with despicable 'crackpot' concepts. And they seem to see Science as so fragile an entity that it must be defended at any cost. A very twisted viewpoint, especially when it comes from scientists. Kills creativity entirely. This discussion group is for ignorant infidel defilers. I myself am a lunatic who will actually try building impossible 'perpetual motion' devices and things originating from dreams and channelers. (Though my internet addiction has put a damper on this a bit!) So Pat, you shouldn't experience ridicule here. But be prepared for small amounts of skepticism occasionally, since many of us come from a hyper-skeptical scientific background and it's hard to judge how much skepticism is healthy. Your public refusal to take money for anything was wise, since even the selling of videotapes will make people accuse you of fraud. But this forum is not so public, so there shouldn't be any problem with requesting that we pay for your costs (and labor!) of duplicating and sending them out. Also, you may not know it but there is an entire science-hobbyist culture which sells books and tapes on just such things as your invention. The INTERNATIONAL TESLA SOCIETY RESOURCE GUIDE is one such catalog. TESLA BOOKS is another. It would be entirely possible to sell your videotape as-is through these catalogs. Maybe with a collection of various email discussions on TOMI. The 'books' in these catalogs are often stapled photocopy pages, not even softcover pamphets. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 07:58:55 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA05393 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:58:53 -0700 Received: from clark.dgim.doc.ca (root@clark.dgim.doc.ca [142.92.39.18]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05369 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 07:58:45 -0700 Received: from Steckly.Gary.dgrr000.ic.gc.ca by clark.dgim.doc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1.tee) id AA02964; Tue, 3 Oct 95 10:58:34 EDT Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 10:58:34 EDT Message-Id: <9510031458.AA02964@clark.dgim.doc.ca> X-Sender: gsteckly@clark.dgim.doc.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: gsteckly@clark.dgim.doc.ca (Gary Steckly) Subject: Re: PatHarris Device X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Gary Hawkins wrote: > >> But also, a movie of it on the web would help you sell a book. I have a >> source now for turning a video into a .avi file for the web. I can't think of >> a more exciting first use of that equipment and software. So I'd like to >> try to talk you into sending a video of it, and I can attach the .avi file >> to an email message to you, for your website if you have one. >> And I would ask that you let me put the video on my site also. > There is an mpg video of this device (or a slightly modified version) available from an FTP site in Germany. It's almost a half a meg in size, and that site seems to have a pretty slow connection, so be warned. I looked at it a while back, and I had a hard time figuring out exactly what was going on, since the clip is only a few seconds long. The file is named:pm_sqlin.mpg and it can be FTP's anonymously from: 194.77.35.1 in pub/harti/energy/PM_Square/ about 485 KBytes. regards Gary From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 11:33:08 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA27079 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:33:07 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA27004 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:32:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199510031832.LAA27004@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 11:34:36 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: PatHarris Device Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A At 06:39 AM 10/3/95 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Gary Hawkins wrote: > >> But also, a movie of it on the web would help you sell a book. I have a >> source now for turning a video into a .avi file for the web. I can't think of >> a more exciting first use of that equipment and software. So I'd like to >> try to talk you into sending a video of it, and I can attach the .avi file >> to an email message to you, for your website if you have one. >> And I would ask that you let me put the video on my site also. > >Gary, Pat needs blank tapes. But there is a problem. Someone is >'disappearing' his mail. I sent him a box of about 20 tapes (cheap >15-min. VHS from Boeing Surplus) and it vanished in the mail. I >haven't got back on this and tried sending insured return-receipt >mail. And Boeing Surplus doesn't have $.25 tapes anymore! > >.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. >William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 >EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ >Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page > > > > I've got what you need, plenty. Can you pay for the shipping? And I would suggest UPS or something. Gary __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 11:36:52 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA28113 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:36:49 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA27804 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:35:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199510031835.LAA27804@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 11:37:30 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Greetings Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:42 AM 10/3/95 -0700, you wrote: >On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Gary Hawkins wrote: >> Simply a note on this type of diagram using Eudora as an email reader. >> These tend to not display correctly in Eudora for me. But if I run the >> cursor over it, copy it, and paste it into Notepad, it displays the way >> the maker intended. > >This is a problem with fonts. Is it possible to make Eudora use the >Courier font? If so, this will solve the problem. The system font in >Windows is proportional, so the size of characters vary, and they don't >fit into an organized grid. > >.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. >William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 >EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ >Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page > > > > Yes, it can be set to courier, for those who like it. __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 18:46:06 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA04905 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:46:04 -0700 Received: from bos1g.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1g.delphi.com [192.80.63.7]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA04881 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:45:58 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW0OGGA82K8Y8H55@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:44:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: PatHarris Device To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW0OGGA82M8Y8H55@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 3-OCT-1995 10:59:54.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >I looked at it a while back, and I had a hard time figuring out >exactly what was going on, since the clip is only a few seconds long. >The file is named:pm_sqlin.mpg and it can be FTP's anonymously from: I had told Stefan about this a long time ago and he built his own verson. What you are seeing is his own model, not mine. I never sent him a videotape of my demo. You can correct that soon. Regards, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;30;44mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 19:48:51 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA04300 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:43:27 -0700 Received: from bos1g.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1g.delphi.com [192.80.63.7]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA04028 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:42:22 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW0ODM6DTK8Y8H55@delphi.com>; Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:42:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:42:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: PatHarris Device To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW0ODM6DTM8Y8H55@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" X-VMS-Cc: INTERNET"freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 3-OCT-1995 09:40:43.4 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Gary Hawkins wrote: >> But also, a movie of it on the web would help you sell a book. I >have a > source now for turning a video into a .avi file for the web. >I can't think of >> a more exciting first use of that equipment and software. So I'd >like to > try to talk you into sending a video of it, and I can attach >the .avi file > to an email message to you, for your website if you >have one. > And I would ask that you let me put the video on my site >also. >Gary, Pat needs blank tapes. But there is a problem. Someone is >'disappearing' his mail. I sent him a box of about 20 tapes (cheap >15-min. VHS from Boeing Surplus) and it vanished in the mail. I >haven't got back on this and tried sending insured return-receipt >mail. And Boeing Surplus doesn't have $.25 tapes anymore! >.....................uuuu / oo \ >uuuu........,............................. William Beaty >voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 >EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer >http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com >SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page Bill, I am sorry about that. There have been many problems with my mail, even my personal security. Would you believe I have a conservator appointed by a federal agency. And I just beat another agency from declaring me in need of a watchdog. I can get stuff through, but I can only do it by putting a bogus return address on it, if it has to do with my device. I dropped out for a long while just because of these activities. And to complain is like a Catch-22. I am being paranoid if I complain. Regards, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;37;47mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 19:56:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA04341 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:43:42 -0700 Received: from bos1e.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1e.delphi.com [192.80.63.5]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA04171 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:42:51 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW0ODU0RPC8Y8H55@delphi.com>; Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: Introducing Myself - PatHarris (Stewart Harris) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW0ODU11CY8Y8H55@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" X-VMS-Cc: INTERNET"freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A On 3-OCT-1995 09:55:12.5 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Pat Harris wrote: >> >Welcome Pat! >A question: Are you using the Internet World Wide Web? If >not, you are missing 3/4 of the internet (some would say >99%!) Delphi should be offering software for Windows that >lets you into the gigantic WWW menu system. Need help in >setting this up? I appreciate your offer and I agree, I am missing a great deal. But as I have stated, blindness has caught up with me among my other disabilities, and operating on the WWW is a sighted activity using GUIs, and colored points. I can't make out most of the link points. I am still making adjustments. My Rainbow reader allows me to choose the colors and the font, up to 18, and I have not been able to afford any screen review program and equipment yet. Soundblaster seems to be inadequate. This is one of the things that is stopping me now in other aspects. It takes time, and I am surprised by the speed at which even my peripheral vision is denigrating. I can't even make a drawing. I have trouble picking up my medication frfom the table. A web site is beyond me at the moment. If I can reach that point, I shall most assuredly call upon you for help. You have been a supporter for some time now. >Anyway, I'd like to create a small Web Site for your material >and feature it on my WEIRD SCIENCE website, so all the world >will have easy and continuous access. You have my permission to do as you see fit with what I have ever supplied. I know full well that you are judicious in your judgment and, regardless of a degree of agreement or disagreement, you are supportive of progress in this area and you are not out to hurt me. Sincerest Regards, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;34;47mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 20:01:28 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA04364 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:43:48 -0700 Received: from bos1g.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1g.delphi.com [192.80.63.7]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA04237 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:43:08 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW0OE2L56G8Y8H55@delphi.com>; Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:42:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: Now the Bad News To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com, Freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW0OE2L56I8Y8H55@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" X-VMS-Cc: INTERNET"freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com",INTERNET"Freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 3-OCT-1995 10:31:35.6 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >It sounds like you had the bad luck to run afoul the >self-nominated defenders of Conventional Physics. These >people seem to see the world as a hoard of ignorant infidels >who would defile science with despicable 'crackpot' concepts. >And they seem to see Science as so fragile an entity that it >must be defended at any cost. A very twisted viewpoint, >especially when it comes from scientists. Kills creativity >entirely. This discussion group is for ignorant infidel >defilers. I myself am a lunatic who will actually try >building impossible 'perpetual motion' devices and things >originating from dreams and channelers. (Though my internet >addiction has put a damper on this a bit!) And how pleasant it has been thus far. You were correct when you invited me to come aboard. I have never been concerned with legitimate skepticism. Surely, Bill, you must realize more than most that I am my own worst skeptic, particularly with the WEIRD side of all this. The SCIENCE side is fairly cut-and-dried, in the sense that what I claim can be reproduced or not. Now, as to explanations, well, then there is room for discussion. But not that X and/or Y have been doen. >So Pat, you shouldn't experience ridicule here. But be >prepared for small amounts of skepticism occasionally, since >many of us come from a hyper-skeptical scientific background >and it's hard to judge how much skepticism is healthy. Agreed. Do you really believe I am comfortable with the concept of believing I got this as a gift from God? If nothing else, it mitigates my profiting from any of this. I have a new concept about magnification for monitors which I am absolutely anxious to get started, with no qualms whatsoever, because I know I did this on my own. I have been on my own since the day I left the orphanage at age 12. In a depression, and then a war. I did not steal, I did not beg. As a court reporter, I chose that field because I got paid for only what I produced. No salary, no paid vacations, no coffee breaks on company time. I got paid by the page I produced. I worked my way through school with a regular job, supporting my family, and I have done this since I married at age 15. I am still married to the same woman after 52 years. But I am also very intelligent and I know when I did not do something on my own. The concept of not taking money is not based on a defense against fraud, although it was a wise decision. It was based on the simple concept I was taught as a child in the orphanage. If you are given a gift by anyone, you do not turn around and sell it or try to make a profit from it. I have tried to give this to our country for 20 years now. If I am right and I eventually succeed in what I think will come, we are looking at what could be a major dysfunction in the economic systems worldwide. That is not something I wish to be known for. I do not wish to go down in history as a man who destroyed anything. I don't really wish to even anger scientists, never mind hurt them, although I do think they could use a little humbling just about now. I have lain sleepless many anight telling God what a stupid mistake he made in laying this on me. I sometimes think this is my punishment for my constantly telling God He is screwing up. "Here, smartass, let's see how you can do?" And I'm doing lousy. And in some ways, I am sick of it. Your invitation caught me just as I was, as a result of my recent classification, just about to put this back on the shelf and say, "Better luck next time." >Also, you may not know it but there is an entire >science-hobbyist culture which sells books and tapes on just >such things as your invention. The INTERNATIONAL TESLA >SOCIETY RESOURCE GUIDE is one such catalog. TESLA BOOKS is >another. It would be entirely possible to sell your >videotape as-is through these catalogs. Maybe with a >collection of various email discussions on TOMI. The 'books' >in these catalogs are often stapled photocopy pages, not even >softcover pamphets. And here is the crux of my major problem. Another Catch-22, so to speak. On the one hand, I do not feel right in profiting from any of this. On the other hand, not contract would be binding if there were no consideration involved. Then there are the people involved. I just turned down an offer of half a million dollars for research and development froma local company called Film Funding. They got hold of my name through the Space Energy Writeup from Don Kelly. I went to a meeting where they had brought in their own scientific expert to evaluate the crude drive. Their expert said, "All I can say is that someday you will see this bunch of cardboard, scotch tape and magnets in the Library of Congress." I stated then that there had to be a minimum stock position in any resulting company which could assure me that no company could shelve this with one researcher in one room with a minimal budget. He agreed. But then he added: "Mr. Harris, I don't give a shit how much of a position you have in the company, it could be 80%, and if we want, we will keep you in court for the rest of your life." Naturally, I walked out. A recent group from Switzerland wanted me to come to Switzerland, and I would love to, but my passport is subject to conservatorship approval and I cannot sell or give anything away without approval. This is why I had such high hopes that if I put the information out, someone would do something. I am also convinced now that if no one does so afterf the arbitrary two-year period I set up, that I then can feel permitted to go ahead with my own devices and, hopefully, do something for my own family. That expires on 1 January. My limited income has been expanded somewhat by the lack of a high car payment, and I had to turn it back just recently, at great cost I might add, because my license and insurance were removed due to my blind status. I will not accept any money from anyone, but I will try to send tapes to you and those who wish to put them on WWW sites. Stefan Hartman in Germany offered to d0o the same thing over there, with some MPG program. I imagine that is similar to what you speak of. Certainly, you can isolate photos for your website. There is no fear of exposing me because, although you see my shaky hand in the video, the subject is important, not me. Plus I really mean it, that I prefer not to be known on sight by the whole world if this goes off the deep end. I have arranged that you will get a copy, Bill, as I should have done so a long time ago. Regards, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;34;41mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 3 22:55:38 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA29125 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:55:36 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA29108 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 22:55:28 -0700 Received: from net-1-157.austin.eden.com (net-1-157.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.157]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id AAA29410 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:55:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:55:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199510040555.AAA29410@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: magnetic energy sources X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Pat Harris and other magnetic energy enthusiasts. I am an engineer with considerable experience with magnetics AND a strong interest in alternative energy sources. I do not, however, feel that magnets (either permanent or electro) offer any potential as an energy source. A lot of my feeling is founded upon the now thousands of man-years that have been spent engineering devices that utilize magnetic fields, building those devices, testing those devices and reconciling the test results with the original design calculations. As far as I know, EVERY time this has been done, magnets have been observed to perform in a "conservative" manner...that is always obeying conservation of energy...never exhibiting any kind of asymmetry of pole strength, etc. If this is actually true about magnets, then getting energy out of them is precisely analogous to getting energy out of the Earth's gravitational field, a popular theme for perpetual motion machines 100 years ago. Countless schemes were tried involving wheels with sliding weights on the spokes, etc. to no avail. Magnets are just like springs. They can store energy and release energy but they are not sources of energy. If they were, where would the energy come from? I am not, however, immune to claims of success with magnets. In fact, a few years ago we had the opportunity to visit Mr. Howard Johnson, the inventor of a magnetic motor that once graced the cover of Popular Science. Johnson's motor started out as a linear track device similar to the TOMI device. He positioned special magnet assemblies along a model RR track and then placed a modified RR car on the track and released it. The car would shoot along the track, run off the end, and roll all the way across the room. Apparently the Patent Office was impressed with this demo because they issued a patent on this device to Johnson. Johnson also built a rotary motor which was essentially one of his linear tracks wrapped around in a circle. We (actually my colleague )visited his house and observed the rotary motor in action. To operated the motor, one had to hold an "armature" magnet by hand near the center of the rotor which was covered with more magnets (all magnets were permanent magnets). The rotor was given a spin and, sure enuf, it would rotate as long as you cared to stand there holding the armature magnet. We then arranged to mount the armature magnet on a rigid arm to eliminate the human factor and....the motor would not run itself anymore! Apparently the human holder was unconsciously "pumping" the device. We also studied the linear Johnson device and concluded that the "amazing burst" of energy that was imparted to the RR car when it was released was actually stored in the system by the human who placed the car on the track. The fields around the starting point were such that work was done in placing the car. This energy was stored in the magnetic fields and converted to kinetic energy when the car was released. I suspect the present TOMI track has a similar operating mechanism. If this is true, rotary versions will not work...(i.e. will not rotate continuously). Having said all this, I still would like to see someone construct a rotary TOMI device just to demonstrate what I am predicting. Of course, if the thing actually did work, I'll wager that I would have the SECOND working version in the world! - Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 02:11:30 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA27744 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:11:16 -0700 Received: from bos1f.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1f.delphi.com [192.80.63.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA27731 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:11:10 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW140YDR7K8WYU18@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Wed, 04 Oct 1995 05:11:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 05:11:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: magnetic energy sources To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW140YDR7M8WYU18@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A On 4-OCT-1995 01:57:04.1 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >Hello Pat Harris and other magnetic energy enthusiasts. >I am an engineer with considerable experience with magnetics >AND a strong interest in alternative energy sources. I do >not, however, feel that magnets (either permanent or electro) >offer any potential as an energy source. In your experience, do you have any literature or knowledge of any instance where masses were moved parallel with the lines of force. All the literature I have read is that masses move only perpendicular with the lines of force. If there is no literature to the effect of moving masses parallel with the lines of force and you have not experienced same, then we must conclude there is something about magnets of which you are not yet aware. That may give you pause to state there is no energy in permanent magnets. As a matter of fact, the Patent Office itself stated that, since masses only move perpendicular to lines of force, it takes more work to break the magnetic lock than any magnetic device can turn out. But there is no magnetic lock in my device. Of course, I could never get any examiner to look at my device. >Magnets are just like springs. They can store energy and >release energy but they are not sources of energy. If they >were, where would the energy come from? The precise argument others have made. Of course, this is after they reproduced my first claim, which they said was impossible. Yet if you don't load the spring, the magnet should not act like a spring, wouldn't you say? Another favorite is the slingshot. But they all pulled the slingshot back. What if you do't pull the slingshot back or pull the spring, will the spring work, or the slingshot? So if work is done but the spring is not pulled or the sling shot not cocked, what is doing the work? I am ignorant and seeking answers. I only have a device which acts in a predictable way and has for 20 years. If you say otherwise, that is fine with me. My point is not to convince you but others. I don't mean that in a bad way, but you did say you do not believe my device could be possible. I accept that. But it has little relevance with what I have. >Johnson also built a rotary motor which was essentially one >of his linear tracks wrapped around in a circle. We >(actually my colleague )visited his house and observed the >rotary motor in action. To operated the motor, one had to >hold an "armature" magnet by hand near the center of the >rotor which was covered with more magnets (all magnets were >permanent magnets). The rotor was given a spin and, sure >enuf, it would rotate as long as you cared to stand there >holding the armature magnet. As I understand it, w = md. Now, as I was told by a Dean of Physics when I demonstrated my flat track, the 'd' in the above formla is the height of a triangle. /| / | / | / | / | ----------- In the above, accorfding to the Dean and what I could glean from Asimov, work would only be done if a mass was moved a distance which equated with the height of the above exemplar. Since I was on the cusp with my patent application when Prof. Johnson's sixth appeal was being heard, I am familiar with his application and claims, and at no point did he ever make a claim in his patent that he could move any mass to a height. So I guess that at no point did his device ever do anywork. There is no question that it did move his little car along the track, however. I do not dispute that at all. The above is just meant for clarification. I asked before why it would not work, if the energy came from the human input, why it would not work if the track were removed, the magnetic track, regardless of its configuration. Obviously it would not work. I would now postulate: If the energy came from the human being, then if you changed magnets or magnet type, the energy from the human being should be the same and have the same effect? I may be wrong, but I would think that it would work the same. What would you think. In your vast experience with magnets and magnetic engineering, do you know of anything or any reason why two magnets would not work the same with the same human input? And if I changed the configuration and the mass accelerated faster than with the primary configuration, do you think the human injected more energy into the system to account for the increase in acceleration. Also, if I put a mass at the base of an incline that is too heavy for one configuration but another configuration will lift that same weight and more, would you say that the human injected even more energy and strength into the magnet. If I were to take a magnetic arrangement which did not work, that is, the human hand could not inject enough energy into the system to lift the mass, and I then simply made some physical alterations to the magnet and the mass would then rise by itself to the height, was it the same human hand which caused the increase in -- what, energy? Or was it the magnet. But the magnet cannot impute any energy component since it has none. Then why would a change in configuration impute some method for doing work into the system which has no energy within it. And most of all, if human energy does not enable the system to lift a mass, but configuration, type of magnet, physical characteristics -- mut no electrical input of course -- does enable the mass to be lifted, do you say that is useless and cannot be implemented into a mechanical system to cycle this characgteristic? Professor Johnson of Blackburg Polytechnic Institute did not have a device which is similar to mine. He had a device which moves masses and reacted perpendicular to the lines of force. And the Patent Office was not impressed. He went before the patent appeals board six times before a patent judge 'ordered by fiat' the Patent Department to issue his patent. When the judge made the order, he asked what the objection was. The examiner stated that permanent magnets do not have any energy inherently in their system and are not a source of energy. The judge said, "I hereby declare them as having a source of energy. Issue the patent." So it wass not done with joy and agreement by the patent examiner, who was, by the way, the same one as for my patent application. Prof. Howard's patent ws issued after my rejection. And I would agree with you that if one had to stand around and hold anything with my device, I would laugh also. If you analyze my simple, original demo, there must be an explanation for the work it does. A mass is not moved on a level surface track but up an incline. Straight up, if you like. Now mass times distance does equate to work; and energy is the cpacity to do work, as I understand it. (I am new at this so my terms may disturb many.) If my placing the mass at the base of the first incline injects the energy into the system and not the magnets, then why would not the mass climb the incline without the magnets being present. Would you posit that the energy is not receptive to the cardboard of scotch tape? And if there is no human intervention into the introduction of the mass into the second incline, then one must state that the PE at the top of the first incline is the only possible source for the energy injected into the system to climb the second incline. And then that PE must be the same for the third and fourth and on and on. Are you saying, then, that the entire source for the energy to move the mass up and down an unlimited number of inclines is injected into the system with your hand at the base of the first incline? Even if that were true, gee, that is one heck of a source of cheap energy. One hand and off we go. >We then arranged to mount the armature magnet on a rigid arm >to eliminate the human factor and....the motor would not run >itself anymore! Apparently the human holder was >unconsciously "pumping" the device. Ah, there was the trouble. You needed to inject something into the system in the first place. Suppose there were a model which no one touched, except of course, for assembly. (Machines have not been devised to actually build themselves from scratch?) What would your explanation be if the system consisted of nothing but permanent magnets? Where do you think the energy would be coming from? And if it worked, would you still be apposed to it because a theory was not provided along with the fact of the motion achieved? I have heard this before. I wish to see a rotational model. When I said I would provide one, it then was upped to: Well, it has to run an hour, then 10 hours, then 10 weeks, then a year, then 10 years. What is your criteria for success before the fact with regard to time? >We also studied the linear Johnson device and concluded that >the "amazing burst" of energy that was imparted to the RR car >when it was released was actually stored in the system by the >human who placed the car on the track. The fields around the >starting point were such that work was done in placing the >car. This energy was stored in the magnetic fields and >converted to kinetic energy when the car was released. The same story. What would you require the machine to do? What tests would you design to ever reach a point where you would say there was energy somewhere in the system, even if there were nothing in it except permanent magnets. >I suspect the present TOMI track has a similar operating >mechanism. If this is true, rotary versions will not >work...(i.e. will not rotate continuously). How long before they will not rotate? When you say "not rotate continuously," what do you mean with regard to time? How long before the energy you say the human inputs into the system will run down and there will e no energy left and the system will stop? Just once I would like to hear an expert make a prediction and stick with it. If your suspicions are correct, then you should be able to say how long before a system will stop motion. (I don't know why you limit it to angular motion, although I will state that that is the most obvious type of motion one would like to see.) >Having said all this, I still would like to see someone construct a >rotary TOMI device just to demonstrate what I am predicting. This is confusing since you are predicting failure. Why would anyone wish to construct a failure? Also, since my device is not rotary, since I cannot afford to build that model yet, you will have to wait a while. I only say continuous, not continuous angular motion. Not yet. Ever seen a seesaw work with two kids on it? All that has to be done is shift the weights on the arm of the lever. And that does not require any more than raising a mass to a height, when you come right down to it. > Of ourse, if the thing actually did work, I'll wager that I >cwould have he SECOND working version in the world! I do not understand this statement at all. I already have the first. Where is yours? Or are you saying you can only produce one, even though I have put out the information how to do it, after I have shown you how? I put out the information how to do this two years ago. You are an engineer, I am an idiot when it comes to science. I put it out exactly so someone like you would do it. Mine does not incorporate anything which is not in the model which has been available to scientists for almost two years. You say you spent time with the Johnson machine. You should spend some time working on my device. It is really simple. Children are building them. Here: Cross section view ------------------ runner starts here | | | /\ /\ | | | / \ / \ | | | / \ / \ | | / \/ \ | |------------------------------ | | | | | <-----------runner ends up here | | ------------------------------------- Top view -------- |<--track-->| ____________|____________ | ___| | |___ | | |___| (start) |___| | | |___| |___| | | |___| incline |___| <--------roll of magnets, positioned at | |___| |___| | the same angle as the slope of | |___| |___| | the incline | |___| |___| | | |___| |___| | | |___|____________|___| | | | | | | | decline | <--------no magnets here, but not as much | | | | space between the rolls as I've | |____________|___ | shown | |___| |___| | | |___| |___| | | |___| incline |___| | | |___| |___| | | |___| |___| | | |___| |___| | | |___|____________|___| | | | | | | | decline | | | | | | | |____________| | | (finish) | |________________________|_ The runner is positioned by hand at the bottom of the first incline (top of the top-view diagram). When it is released, it moves rapidly up the first incline, down the first decline, up the second incline, and down the second decline. When it reaches the bottom of the second decline, it simply falls down into the level of the box (bottom of the top-view diagram). CONSTRUCTION ------------ To construct your own TOMI (Theory Of Magnetic Instability) device; 1) For the ONE ramp test Buy 30 circular magnets (with the hole in the middle) from Radio Shack, these cost $1.69 for 5 magnets, so the magnets will cost about $10.00 For the TWO ramp test Buy 50 circular magnets (with the hole in the middle) from Radio Shack, about $17.00 2) Take some stiff cardboard and make two hills (each hill consists of an 2) Take some stiff cardboard and make two hills (each hill consists of an incline and a decline, experiment with the angle, about 30 degrees) 3) Make three rolls (or five rolls if you are using 2 ramps) of 10 magnets each (connect the magnets to form 10 magnet stacks, kind of like a roll of Lifesavers 4) Tape these magnets together with scotch tape 5) The ones for the side of the ramps are called RUNNERS, one other 10 magnet roll is used as the ROLLER that moves up the incline between the RUNNERS 4) On each ramp (incline), you attach one roll of magnets running up each side, so that's two magnet rolls per incline and NONE on the decline 5) The RUNNER magnets on the sides should arranged to be of opposite polarity, that is, North at the top on one side, South at the top on the opposite side 6) The ROLLER should be placed at the base of the ramp with its poles facing like poles on the RUNNERS, since LIKE magnetic poles REPEL, this will provide the repulsion you require to make the ROLLER move up the incline between the RUNNERS. The Pole arrangement should look like this: N S | | | | | | | | S S---------N N Each successive track set and runner should conform to the above configuration and you line them up! The best results will be obtained if you put a strip of cardboard across the back of the first track. Then you simply set the runner onto the track at the base of the incline, see that it is lined up and let it go. Be sure that the runner is close to the tracks on both sides. If you wish, you can get little medicine bottle caps, the kind with rotating tops, and glue the magnets inside of each cap. Then you have wheels and you can change the width of the runner all you like. I can't do any more than this, Scott. I am disabled, homebound and blind. I am depending on people like yourself, credentialed scientists with educations and abilities I can never possess. And you are an engineer, to boot. Here is the drive. Certainly you can implement it if I can. Let's see, there are about six different versions, offhand, which are simple mechanical applications once one gets a mass to a height. This is the whole point of my two-year hiatus, to send out all the information to all who would like it and let them put all their genius to work. I should think that with all your experience, you should have the first version, since it is unlikely that your version will ever be identical to any other version in the world. But don't limit yourself to rotation alone. You can put the lever to work in many ways if you can shift a mass from one point to another internal to any system, and self-starting. Self-starting, that is the key. All those systems you have seen where they need a push, a start, I agree that that is ridiculous. If it is not self-starting, it can be stopped, would't you say? It is a pleasure talking with you. I wish you success. You now possess all the information I or anyone else has to make a CM device. There is much, however, to extrapolate from the simple demo, but I have no doubt if I can figure it out, it should be a snap for someone with your background and experience. Regards, Pat Harris If you decide not to build this and experiment, but to simply theorize, well, I can understand that also. PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;35;44mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 05:14:22 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA16880 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 05:14:20 -0700 Received: from acad.suffolk.edu (acad.suffolk.edu [192.80.92.251]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA16866 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 05:14:14 -0700 From: lee02016@acad.suffolk.edu Received: by acad.suffolk.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA43199; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:04:58 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Harold Aspden To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A > > I have a couple of articles on Aspden's 'transformer' inventions, ordered > from the SEA Journal (Space Energy something). The mail addr is on WEIRD > SCIENCE under Unconventional Journals/Newsletters. There is a back-issue > index file there too. Please tell us more about WEIRD SCIENCE, and SEA Journal. Also what kind of transformer was Aspden's? You get into a lot of interesting stuff... From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 06:47:56 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA02825 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 06:47:53 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA02791 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 06:47:43 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id GAA11708; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 06:47:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 06:47:33 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Harold Aspden In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 4 Oct 1995 lee02016@acad.suffolk.edu wrote: > > > > I have a couple of articles on Aspden's 'transformer' inventions, ordered > > from the SEA Journal (Space Energy something). The mail addr is on WEIRD > > SCIENCE under Unconventional Journals/Newsletters. There is a back-issue > > index file there too. WEIRD SCIENCE is one of the sections in my Science Hobbyist website. As always, the address is below. It has the Keelynet archive, a Cold Fusion section, piles and piles of links to similar sites, and a few of my own semi-conventional science education and demonstration papers. Does anyone here need help in getting WWW access? > Please tell us more about WEIRD SCIENCE, and SEA Journal. Also what kind > of transformer was Aspden's? I only subscribed breifly to the Space Energy Associate journal. It is a (quarterly?) newsletter of free energy articles, mostly worthwhile. Their backissue index is in WEIRD SCIENCE if you'd like to order older articles. > You get into a lot of interesting stuff... Yeah, I'm driven to get into weird stuff. And most of the time it turns out to take off bigtime, but I never find a way to make a living off it, even being in on the early stages. Like Internet. Even if one saw all this coming and jumped in years ago, how the heck do you get an income from it unless you go into advertizing? So, as the guy whispering "plastics" in The Graduate said: Terahertz Microwave Cameras. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 07:20:52 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA09343 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:20:50 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA09309 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:20:41 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA13278; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:20:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: World Wide Web use In-Reply-To: <01HW0ODU11CY8Y8H55@delphi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Pat Harris wrote: > >A question: Are you using the Internet World Wide Web? If > >not, you are missing 3/4 of the internet (some would say > >99%!) Delphi should be offering software for Windows that > >lets you into the gigantic WWW menu system. Need help in > >setting this up? > > I appreciate your offer and I agree, I am missing a great deal. > But as I have stated, blindness has caught up with me among my > other disabilities, and operating on the WWW is a sighted > activity using GUIs, and colored points. I mostly use the Web with the LYNX program. It has no GUIs, no colors, no mouseclicks. It is entirely text only. The WWW has a text-only subculture, populated by people using old non-graphics terminals, so even the glitziest website will usually have a text-only version, or at least some captions which appear in place of all their graphics. In LYNX program the click-button links are manipulated by the cursor control keys on the keyboard (up, down, and ENTER) and all the buttons are traversed in sequence, (no hunting for a dot on the screen) and all have text lables. LYNX uses VT-100 screen standard. My Weird Science website is almost entirely text. However, Delphi may not offer a text-only browser. Give them a call and ask if they support blind internet users. If they don't, give them a hint by asking if they know if compuserve or AOL does, ha ha. If they do, ask them how to use their text-only web browser. If they don't have one, then they AREN'T supporting blind users. Email only without the web is not really the internet. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 07:28:38 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA10901 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:28:36 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA10863 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:28:23 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA13988; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:28:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Greetings In-Reply-To: <199510020534.AAA04498@firefly.prairienet.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Zack Widup wrote: > The patent shows an arrangement of field coils like this: > > Field Coils > / > _____________ / > ____________| |____________ > | | | | > | | | | > | N ____| | ___ S | > |_______| |_____________| |_______| Armature Coils > _______ _______ / > | | | |/ > ____|_______|_______________________|_______|_____ > |__________________________________________________|Shaft > | | | | > |_______| |_______| > _______ _____________ _______ > | |____| |____| | > | S | | N | > | | | | > |____________| |____________| > |_____________| > This is very similar to Bert Werjefelt's device, though his generator has both of the above. There was an article on him in Extraordinary Science a couple of years ago. Gene Mallove kindly sent me a paper, ENERGY FROM MAGNETIC MATERIALS/MAGNETIC FIELDS, from the IAP program on CF and MIT, January 21,1995. Werjefelt's device is entirely permanent magnets though. It is connected to a standard DC generator, and is then spun by a small motor. The output is supposed to be overunity, so his goal is to get the system to accelerate. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 07:52:59 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA14645 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:52:57 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA14637 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:52:53 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA15383; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:52:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 07:52:50 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: magnetic energy sources In-Reply-To: <01HW140YDR7M8WYU18@delphi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Pat Harris wrote: > Are you saying, then, that the entire source for the energy to > move the mass up and down an unlimited number of inclines is > injected into the system with your hand at the base of the first > incline? Even if that were true, gee, that is one heck of a > source of cheap energy. One hand and off we go. This is exactly right. If the friction is low, then one hand and off you go. In general, transportation of masses does not require net energy use. Only transportation against friction does! If you could lower the friction of a transportation device, you could give it a push and it would coast to any distance. > When I said I would provide one, it then was upped to: Well, it > has to run an hour, then 10 hours, then 10 weeks, then a year, > then 10 years. What is your criteria for success before the > fact with regard to time? Their argument is foolish. Any device can be made to run forever by reducing the friction. A metal flywheel in a vacuum chamber with maglev bearings will keep turning for years. Anything with rolling friction is going to have very low friction and will fly along for great distances. Their argument may not be foolish, it may be a backhanded accusation of fraud, and their long-hours test is designed to run any hidden batteries down. But there is a battery-powered device in a museum in england that has been operating for over a century. It's called a DeLuc Dry Pile Franklin's Bell, and it sits there tinkling in its glass jar. The real test of an energy producing device is, does it accelerate over time? This is the same as saying, does it do work upon itself? Once started, does it simply move? If so, you might only have a low friction device, and it will eventually coast to a stop. In your case, if your device is simply using low friction, then if you built enough sequential ramps then you would see it move slower and slower until it got stuck. I know that this is one of the arguments people have used against your invention, but I haven't heard that they actually built the ramps. But, if you device runs faster and faster, if it can climb higher and higher ramps (even if each one is only a tiny bit higher), or if, as it climbs sequential ramps it goes faster and faster up each one, then you have something earthshaking. Continuous motion is well known in low friction systems. The earth turns, the planets revolve, this is not a source of energy. A source of anomalous energy displays continuous speedup. > The same story. What would you require the machine to do? What > tests would you design to ever reach a point where you would say > there was energy somewhere in the system, even if there were > nothing in it except permanent magnets. The key to this is the same as you've discussed: build a circular device, and see if the roller starts passing through it faster and faster. Once released, if it goes faster and faster up to a point, and then continues without slowing, then this also would be proof, since the device sped up until the frictional losses equaled the energy production. I've built the one-ramp version. It does as advertized. It's cool to play with, like a rollercoaster where the cart is unstable in the valleys and will roll to the peak of the hill. But energy production is not obvious when only a single ramp is involved. I built a very crude rotary-disk verion which did not work, but then Pat predicted this because gravity is excluded when a balanced disk is used. I've yet to try building a continuous-loop version with a roller and tracks. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 11:30:03 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA11875 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:30:01 -0700 Received: from oroboros.demon.co.uk (oroboros.demon.co.uk [158.152.100.96]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA11696 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:29:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 19:07:18 GMT From: CRSM@oroboros.demon.co.uk (Chris Morriss) Message-Id: <9085@oroboros.demon.co.uk> To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: magnetic energy sources X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 16 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: OK, I too am sceptical about the ability to use magnets as power sources, in spite of the many claims that are going around. However, in respect of the question 'Where does the magnetism come from?' consider this: I am led to believe that there are permanent magnet materials with a sharp Curie transition temperature. These materials lose most of their magnetism over a region of 20 degrees C or so. They also REGAIN most of their magnetism when cooled over this range. What is happening to the magnetic domains to allow this? ie, where is the memory? Also, can this be utilised to make a heat enngine? I have heard that there is a measurable input and/or output of heat from the magnet when traversing this 'Curie' region. Does anyone know anything of this? Bye for now, -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 16:40:46 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05750 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:39:20 -0700 Received: from bos1d.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1d.delphi.com [192.80.63.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA05611 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:38:49 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW1YCKXPVK92163Q@delphi.com>; Wed, 04 Oct 1995 19:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 19:38:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: World Wide Web use To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW1YCKXZIQ92163Q@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" X-VMS-Cc: INTERNET"freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 4-OCT-1995 10:23:50.4 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >However, Delphi may not offer a text-only browser. Give them >a call and ask if they support blind internet users. If they >don't, give them a hint by asking if they know if compuserve >or AOL does, ha ha. If they do, ask them how to use their >text-only web browser. If they don't have one, then they >AREN'T supporting blind users. Email only without the web is >not really the internet. Appreciate it, Bill. Will check and see what is out there for us. Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;37;44mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 17:41:28 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA06617 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:44:50 -0700 Received: from bos1b.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1b.delphi.com [192.80.63.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA06016 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:42:40 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW1YCQHL3C92163Q@delphi.com>; Wed, 04 Oct 1995 19:39:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 19:39:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: magnetic energy sources To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW1YCQHL3E92163Q@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" X-VMS-Cc: INTERNET"freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 4-OCT-1995 10:53:52.2 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >> Are you saying, then, that the entire source for the energy >> to move the mass up and down an unlimited number of >> inclines is injected into the system with your hand at the >> base of the first incline? Even if that were true, gee, >> that is one heck of a source of cheap energy. One hand and >> off we go. >This is exactly right. If the friction is low, then one hand >and off you go. In general, transportation of masses does >not require net energy use. Only transportation against >friction does! If you could lower the friction of a >transportation device, you could give it a push and it would >coast to any distance. And if the friction is high, crude, and uphill? This shouod stop it; correct? >> When I said I would provide one, it then was upped to: Well, it >> has to run an hour, then 10 hours, then 10 weeks, then a year, >> then 10 years. What is your criteria for success before the >> fact with regard to time? >Their argument is foolish. Any device can be made to run >forever by reducing the friction. A metal flywheel in a >vacuum chamber with maglev bearings will keep turning for >years. Anything with rolling friction is going to have very >low friction and will fly along for great distances. Their >argument may not be foolish, it may be a backhanded >accusation of fraud, and their long-hours test is designed to >run any hidden batteries down. But there is a >battery-powered device in a museum in england that has been >operating for over a century. It's called a DeLuc Dry Pile >Franklin's Bell, and it sits there tinkling in its glass >jar. >The real test of an energy producing device is, does it >accelerate over time? This is the same as saying, does it do >work upon itself? Once started, does it simply move? If so, >you might only have a low friction device, and it will >eventually coast to a stop. In your case, if your device is >simply using low friction, then if you built enough >sequential ramps then you would see it move slower and slower >until it got stuck. I know that this is one of the arguments >people have used against your invention, but I haven't heard >that they actually built the ramps. John Brawley built it with four ramps, but he claimed his engineering was crude and might have added to the problem. But if you are right, then I should cease and desist, because I am not really that interested. >But, if you device runs faster and faster, if it can climb >higher and higher ramps (even if each one is only a tiny bit >higher), or if, as it climbs sequential ramps it goes faster >and faster up each one, then you have something earthshaking. >Continuous motion is well known in low friction systems. The >earth turns, the planets revolve, this is not a source of >energy. A source of anomalous energy displays continuous >speedup. Would that include or allow a configuration which caused an increase in speed? In other words, my original patent gave drawings for increasing the speed over distance and also to reenergize the motion. I can arrange the tracks so it will brake at an exact point; I can arrange it so that, as the mass might be overcome with inertia, it can be passed off to the next stage, which includes an immediate reinstitution of acceleration. As for low friction, if you saw it, it is all cardboard and scotch tape and Tinkertoy wheels, with 20 years of accumulated repairs. Low friction, it is not. >> The same story. What would you require the machine to do? >> What tests would you design to ever reach a point where you >> would say there was energy somewhere in the system, even if >> there were nothing in it except permanent magnets. >The key to this is the same as you've discussed: build a >circular device, and see if the roller starts passing through >it faster and faster. Once released, if it goes faster and >faster up to a point, and then continues without slowing, >then this also would be proof, since the device sped up until >the frictional losses equaled the energy production. Well, since my life is controlled by a fixed income, it will be sometime before I can build what will satisfy you. In the meantime, I shall build what I consider to be an application which does some work of some sort. I don't agree that speed is essential. If I hook this up to a spring, and I use the motion wind the spring, it is obvious that at one point the torque of the spring will overcome the torque of my winding device. Then, as the spring unwinds, doing whatever task it is designed or engineered to do -- at present, wind a clock -- it will most likely actually stop the drive. So that should be the end of it, shouldn't it? There is no energy left in the system since it has come to a stop? Then what if it starts up again as the spring tension releases? I admit I am not a scientist, but it seems to me that if the drive affects some other device to the extent it can accomplish some task, and start and stop as necessity of the system dictates, it would not make too much difference to the clock owner if it went fast or slow or stoppped and started; as long as it did the job required. This type of system would satisfy me, as long as it did something worthwhile. I think there was a scientist once who said, "make it work. We will figure out how it works at some other time. I guess I will have to take that route and you can critique it when it is done. >I've built the one-ramp version. It does as advertized. >It's cool to play with, like a rollercoaster where the cart >is unstable in the valleys and will roll to the peak of the >hill. But energy production is not obvious when only a >single ramp is involved. I built a very crude rotary-disk >verion which did not work, but then Pat predicted this >because gravity is excluded when a balanced disk is used. >I've yet to try building a continuous-loop version with a >roller and tracks. I am dense, Bill, but I have never seen the movement of the mass in the light of energy production, in and of itself, since I don't even understand the concepts involved. I have always operated on the mechanical aspect of a mass being at a height. When I got this in a dream, I had no ideas about energy, per se, until the patent attorney spoke to me and referred to it as PM. My next real consideration was when I saw the government attempting to move a drop of water up an incline by the use of magnetic means. You will see that on the tape. I have no visions of energy being produced within the system in any way. I don't even understand what some of the Keelynet people speak of, such as SEG and naming my device HEG, etc. I also, from my own simple logic, cannot see nor have ever seen my device function in a continuous motion without the input of gravity, regardless of what scientists wish to call it, a force or an energy input. I tried to make two devices on my own at one point in time. One was 18 years ago; another was one I had mentioned recently, which I called the Flapper. Although I got it to work, it had one problem, which has become a prime tenet of mycurrent thinking: IT HAD TO BE STARTED. In order to even start the mechanical action, it had to be set in motion. Everyone in the world has cited that problem as being the first bar to it being feasible for CM. The other system had the same failing, in that I attempted to incorporate the mechanical aspects separate from the mechanism which would rotate. This will never work, in my own opinion. I think this is what is being tried by many others. The horizontal circular track concept, where the track is hot and not the vehicle is what I refer to. I did build one example of a circular track with seven hills -- it was an odd circle and poor construction with Play Dough, beads, etc. In over 200 attempts, I could never get a complete circumnavigation except twice. Now there is another item which I did, and which many can try if they like. Build their circular track, hopefully better than I did or can. If you have eight inclines, then put nine runners on the track. Then each subsequent mass will force the one before it to climb the incline, despite the fact that the runner may get hung up or cocked. But I don't even know what anyone would call that. I know that once it started, my version, it ran without stop until I put it away. I never considered it more than something like that device with the hanging balls and they bounce back and forth for a very long time. A novelty. I see no value in the flat track since no torque seems to be produced and very little resistance will will stop it. You have to produce a model which at all times interacts with gravity. I see this in light of a piledriver. If you get the mass to a height, it is engineering to put the mass to work. If you use gravity to reintroduce the mass to go back to the base of the track, it will climb again. In effect, cheap technique to get a mass to a height. The world can argue about the energy aspects, there is none or not. I don't care. I know that everytime the mass has been introduced into the track over a 20-year period, the mass has never failed to climb the incline, accelerating as it goes. This is becoming a struggle for me again. I am going to unsubscribe now for the sake of my health. Thanks for having me on. Regards, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;33;47mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 03:47:51 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA07573 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:47:49 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA07551 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:47:43 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA17014 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 05:46:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id FAA16482; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 05:47:09 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: magnetic energy sources Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 21:19:49 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: <199510040555.AAA29410@matrix.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <199510040555.AAA29410@matrix.eden.com> Lines: 39 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In article <199510040555.AAA29410@matrix.eden.com>, you wrote: >Hello Pat Harris and other magnetic energy enthusiasts. > >I am not, however, immune to claims of success with magnets. In fact, a few >years ago we had the opportunity to visit Mr. Howard Johnson, the inventor >of a magnetic motor that once graced the cover of Popular Science. It was on the cover of "Science&Mechanics" not Popular Science. >Johnson's motor started out as a linear track device similar to the TOMI >device. He positioned special magnet assemblies along a model RR track and >then placed a modified RR car on the track and released it. The car would >shoot along the track, run off the end, and roll all the way across the >room. Weren't these "special magnets" just the magnetic tape you can buy a roll of in a Craft Store? "Sticky Tape" as Johnson referred to them in the article. >We also studied the linear Johnson device and concluded that the "amazing >burst" of energy that was imparted to the RR car when it was released was >actually stored in the system by the human who placed the car on the track. >The fields around the starting point were such that work was done in placing >the car. This energy was stored in the magnetic fields and converted to >kinetic energy when the car was released. Please explain this. Your saying that this "field" (Does it have mass?) is storing energy. Where, how, for how long? The works of Peter Granu (Spelling?) have shown that relitivlistic "field" theories breaks down in open ended systems like Rail Guns (They follow Ampures Law). Is the TOMI a open or closed system? Much to the dismay of my wife I built a TOMI on the kitchen table [Being a old house the table was slanted, so I moved the TOMI in all directions, it worked the same, going up hill or down.], out of cardboard, pennies, and Radio Shack magnets. It does what Pat claims. Build your self one over the weekend and let us know what you think of this "field" storage stuff after that. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 03:47:53 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA07576 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:47:51 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA07557 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 03:47:45 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA17021 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 05:46:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id FAA16490; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 05:47:10 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: magnetic energy sources Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 21:23:29 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 6 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A >But there is a battery-powered device in a museum in england that >has been operating for over a century. It's called a DeLuc Dry Pile >Franklin's Bell, and it sits there tinkling in its glass jar. Never heard of it. Can you elaborate please? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 22:54:58 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA00529 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 22:54:43 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA00514 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 22:54:37 -0700 Received: from net-1-143.austin.eden.com (net-1-143.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.143]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id AAA16808 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:54:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 00:54:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199510050554.AAA16808@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: TOMI length record? X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: You made a few points which I would like to respond to, Pat. 1. When an electromagnet attracts a piece of iron towards it, isn't that iron moving parallel to the lines of force...i.e. in the direction of the force? 2. I agree with Bill on the criteria for a "working" rotary device. If you could construct a wheel that would ACCELERATE its rate of rotation (averaged over a complete revolution) after being given a starting push, that alone would do it. 3. Despite your objection, your TOMI track is precisely like I suspected it was (thanks for the description...which I studied this time). You place the roller at the lower end of the first hill where it is repelled by both side rolls. In doing so, you store energy in the magnetic fields just like storing energy in a spring. When you release the roller it takes off...in this case up the incline. Not mysterious. However, what would be mysterious is if this process could be repeated indefinitely and especially if the roller would ACCELERATE when moving along a track consisting of many inclines. How many of these "hills" have you (or anyone) actually strung together? Does the roller move with constant speed along the track or does it appear to be slowing down as it goes along? Chris Morriss makes an interesting point about Curie transitions. I'm sure you could make a heat engine with that effect but, presumably, it would be subject to the 2nd law like the rest of the heat engines. That alone may be sufficient to require a "heat of transition". I'll look into it a bit. - Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 4 23:43:36 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA09794 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:43:34 -0700 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com (mail04.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.53]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA09737 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:43:18 -0700 From: Coildude@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA03256 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 02:42:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 02:42:00 -0400 Message-ID: <951005024159_36897358@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: TOMI Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I constructed a TOMI as instructed. This thing reminds me of the" Bullet Train" in Japan. These two concepts are the same, right? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 04:38:50 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA02480 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 04:38:46 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA02470 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 04:38:41 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA17896 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:36:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id GAA21782; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 06:38:05 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: magnetic energy sources Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 07:24:07 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: <9085@oroboros.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9085@oroboros.demon.co.uk> Lines: 19 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >I am led to believe that there are permanent magnet materials with a >sharp Curie transition temperature. These materials lose most of their >magnetism over a region of 20 degrees C or so. They also REGAIN most >of their magnetism when cooled over this range. >What is happening to the magnetic domains to allow this? ie, where is the >memory? >Also, can this be utilised to make a heat enngine? >I have heard that there is a measurable input and/or output of heat from >the magnet when traversing this 'Curie' region. Does anyone know anything >of this? If you look through the Patens of Tesla you will find he made a generator by wrapping a coil around a bar magnet, and oscillating the temperature above and below the Curie Point. I'll look up the number tonight. A Fresnell Lens would make a good heat source for a solar powered generator with no (?) moving parts.... Does this count as your Heat Enngine? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 13:08:17 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA25248 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:08:15 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA25207 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:08:02 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id NAA12110; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:07:59 -0700 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:07:58 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: magnetic energy sources In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Bob Paddock wrote: > > >But there is a battery-powered device in a museum in england that > >has been operating for over a century. It's called a DeLuc Dry Pile > >Franklin's Bell, and it sits there tinkling in its glass jar. > > Never heard of it. Can you elaborate please? The 'motor' part is Franklin's bell, an ancient electrostatic device where you put opposite charges on closely spaced bells, hand a tiny metal clapper between them, and the clapper will rattle continuously as long as the bells remain charged. The power supply is a multi-kilovolt chemical battery (DuLuc pile, also called Zamboni pile) composed of many thousands of layers of paper and metal foil of two types (brass and silver, I believe) The amount of energy in the battery is apparently sufficient to drive the bell for several hundred years. I've always wanted to build a dry-pile battery. It would be interesting to own a magic rod that forever stayed charged, and could run a small electrostatic motor for decades! This was from a paperback book on perptual motion machines. Another interesting 'real' one was a large clock which was wound via air pressure changes. It really worked, though it required several hundred pounds of mercury inside its giant barometer. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 5 15:53:13 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA07389 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:53:11 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA07380; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 15:53:06 -0700 Received: from net-1-166.austin.eden.com (net-1-166.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.166]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id RAA07042; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:53:02 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:53:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199510052253.RAA07042@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: pressure powered clocks X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A > >This was from a paperback book on perptual motion machines. Another >interesting 'real' one was a large clock which was wound via air pressure >changes. It really worked, though it required several hundred pounds of >mercury inside its giant barometer. My mother has an "ATMOS" clock which runs on atmospheric pressure changes. It has only a modest looking barometer-type corrugated diaphragm. It has been running continuously for years and years without being touched. It is fairly small....like a 7" cube. Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 6 03:06:18 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA20402 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 03:06:03 -0700 Received: from bos1d.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1d.delphi.com [192.80.63.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA20390 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 03:05:57 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HW3YJM7U2O9212EM@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Fri, 06 Oct 1995 06:05:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 06:05:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: TOMI length record? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HW3YJM7U2Q9212EM@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 5-OCT-1995 01:58:12.3 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >1. When an electromagnet attracts a piece of iron towards >it, isn't that iron moving parallel to the lines of >force...i.e. in the direction of the force? What I have stated is there is no literature which described that as moving parallel to the lines of force. I may be wrong, but I was told by the patent department, the Bureau of Standards, DOE, that it was impossible because of the 'magnetic lock' resulting from movement perpendicular to the lines of force. In other words, at the end of movement of one mass toward the other, there is always a locking up of the materials or masses. >2. I agree with Bill on the criteria for a "working" rotary >device. If you could construct a wheel that would ACCELERATE >its rate of rotation (averaged over a complete revolution) >after being given a starting push, that alone would do it. Two problems. When I build one, it won't need a push. I do not think any such device would be worth anything if it needs a push. Is that not your objection to the model you read about? That you inject the energy into the system when it is put at the base of the incline? I have not built that yet because I cannot afford it. And the lament of all skeptics is: Fine, let me know when you can unhook it and it will run by itself. Well, I simply don't hook it up in the first place. This self-starting quality is what makes it work with my device that I am going to use to wind a spring. >3. Despite your objection, your TOMI track is precisely like I >suspected it was (thanks for the description...which I studied this >time). You place the roller at the lower end of the first hill where >it is repelled by both side rolls. In doing so, you store energy in >the magnetic fields just like storing energy in a spring. When you >release the roller it takes off...in this case up the incline. Not >mysterious. Strange, inthat I have tons of mail which said it couldn't be done, and when it was reproduced and evaluated, no one has yet said it was not mysterious. And if that is the case, why would the patent office reject it? It would seem unfair, don't you thin? >However, what would be mysterious is if this process could be >repeated indefinitely and especially if the roller would >ACCELERATE when moving along a track consisting of many >inclines. It accelerates up each hill independently. Does that count? >How many of these "hills" have you (or anyone) actually >strung together? Four, by John Brawley. >Does the roller move with constant speed along the track or >does it appear to be slowing down as it goes along? No, it accelerates up over the upper apex of each incline. Each incline is a regenerated cycle, in my view. And it has been doing this for 20 years. What can I tell you? I will just put what I want on the table and, I guess, since no one thinks it has value, export it overseas. I have been told it can be patented over in Europe. The Swiss visitors who visited me in June feel that Switzerland would grant a patent. But my [hysical mitigates against such a move, and my wife does not wish to change venues, either. >Chris Morriss makes an interesting point about Curie transitions. I'm >sure you could make a heat engine with that effect but, presumably, it >would be subject to the 2nd law like the rest of the heat engines. >That alone may be sufficient to require a "heat of transition". I'll >look into it a bit. I assume you I will never build a heat engine. I don't even know what that is. Remember, I got this in a dream and I am not a scientist. I have never visualized anything but a mechanical device. And that is a stretch for me. The designs I tried myself do not. The ones I get in dreams do. Thanks, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;34;43mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 10:59:58 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA14045 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 10:59:39 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA14025 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 10:59:32 -0700 From: William Beaty Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id KAA16300; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 10:59:30 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 10:59:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199510071759.KAA16300@eskimo.com> To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: (fwd) 22" Magnet(1 Tesla) + supply available free of charge (Repost) Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Xref: eskimo sci.physics.electromag:6418 Path: eskimo!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.nic.surfnet.nl!tudelft.nl!news From: koets@cpo.tn.tudelft.nl (Erico Koets) Newsgroups: sci.physics.electromag Subject: 22" Magnet(1 Tesla) + supply available free of charge (Repost) Date: 6 Oct 1995 10:45:05 GMT Organization: Delft Univ. of Technology Lines: 38 Message-ID: <4531bh$6m8@mo6.rc.tudelft.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: dutndoh.tn.tudelft.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.2 We have a 1 Tesla magnet with power supply and support structure available free of charge for any institute (manufacturers incl.) which will do something useful with it. The taker has to arrange and pay for removal and transport. The 6 ton magnet was built by Varian (modified version of NMR-magnet; used here for precision RF-mass spectrometry via cyclotron frequency). It has 22" diam. poles, ring shaped optically flat pole caps of 22" outer diam. and 11" inner diam. and a 5" through hole on the axis perpendicular to the gap. At present the pole gap is 2.2" Shim rings and current sheets were added to produce a 16" diam. toroidal volume (>1" * >1") of high homogeneity (1 : >10^5). The (commercial) power supply (0..160 A, 0..90 V), the (home built) stabilization amplifiers and the motor-generator local power station (35 kVA) with switch gear are also available. This system ran at long term field stabilities of better than 1 : 10^7 and short term stabilities of 1 : 10^11. In principal each item is also available separately. Please respond via e-mail only to koets@cpo.tn.tudelft.nl E. Koets Charged Particle Optics Group Appl. Physics Dept. Delft Univ. of Technology the Netherlands -- .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 7 11:36:53 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA21585 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:36:52 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA21561 for ; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:36:41 -0700 From: William Beaty Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id LAA19648; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:36:40 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 11:36:40 -0700 Message-Id: <199510071836.LAA19648@eskimo.com> To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: (fwd) Recent Patent on Extracting Unlimited Vacuum Energy Newsgroups: sci.energy Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Xref: eskimo sci.energy:31852 Path: eskimo!mvb.saic.com!news.mathworks.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!bga.com!ejeong From: ejeong@bga.com (Euejin Jeong) Newsgroups: sci.energy Subject: Recent Patent on Extracting Unlimited Vacuum Energy Date: 3 Oct 1995 02:12:47 GMT Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates Lines: 5 Message-ID: <44q66v$5jt@giga.bga.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jake.bga.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Check out the web site http://www.realtime.net/~ejeong/ for the recently filed patent on Unlimited Energy Production By Using Dipole Gravity. Euejin -- .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 04:21:22 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA06147 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 04:20:57 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA06129 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 04:20:51 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA19979 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 06:19:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id GAA21935; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 06:20:11 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: TOMI length record? Date: Sun, 08 Oct 1995 10:55:16 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: <199510050554.AAA16808@matrix.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <199510050554.AAA16808@matrix.eden.com> Lines: 14 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >3. Despite your objection, your TOMI track is precisely like I suspected it >was (thanks for the description...which I studied this time). You place the >roller at the lower end of the first hill where it is repelled by both side >rolls. In doing so, you store energy in the magnetic fields just like >storing energy in a spring. When you release the roller it takes off...in >this case up the incline. Not mysterious. What happens if I place a cylinder of Iron of the same mass, in places of the magnates? Have I not imparted the same kinetic energy to the "fields"? What if I build the device backwards: I place the runner first, then place the side rolls? Whats stored in the "fields" then? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 09:14:32 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA05769 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:13:05 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA05731 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:12:53 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id JAA11667; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:12:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 09:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Gravity generating capacitive device (electric rocket) (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 00:18:41 -700 From: 7nz8znda roamer To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Gravity generating capacitive device (electric rocket) Hi there! I was just wondering if you might know of anyone who has built one of these devices and would be willing to demonstrate it on video. Better yet, a live demo! I'd hate to take the time and $$ to manufacture one of these things just to discover that it really doesn't work. I'm also interested in the possible o/u effects in capacitive discharge through electromagnets or solenoids. Apparently, a company in Indiana is selling F/E engine kits that are based in principle on the Edwin Gray motor design. Their address is : Creative Science and Research P.O. box 8001 New Albany, IN 47150 They have kits available for three sizes of motor, 5hp, 20hp, and 100hp. I ordered one set of plans from them which is part gravity activated and part HV (ala Gray patent). I wish someone would check these people out besides just myself. It seems that anyone genuinely interested in F/E would be at least curious about a commercial organization that allegedly sells true F/E engine kits and plans. Later... From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 10:52:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA22344 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:52:35 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA22332 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:52:28 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id KAA18803; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:52:26 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:52:26 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Model Mechanics theory, new issues. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: neotech@world.std.com Subject: Re: Model Mechanics theory, new issues. On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, ken seto wrote: > > > > >Ken, > >If a fixed lenght of fiber optic is a universal clock, how does a fiber > >optic laser gyroscope operate? In such a laser gyro, the acceleration of > >the laser gyro adds to or subtracts from the velocity of the light in the > >fiber spool, and therefore changes the interfearance pattern produced by > >mixing the light from the spool with that of a referance beam. > > I merely suggested that a fixed length of fiber optic may be used as an > universal clock if the speed of light and the length of the fiber remains > the same in all non-accelerating initial frames. Something on my mind for quite a while: if distortions in the flow of time are possible (such as reported in UFO events, incidence of people walking into the past and back, tesla coil rumors, etc.,) then we need some way to measure them. Time of flight through a long optical fiber might make a sensitive "timewarp" detector. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 11:17:25 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA26886 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 11:17:21 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA26831 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 11:17:07 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id LAA21455; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 11:17:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 11:17:01 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: NEOTECH discussion list (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:13:01 +0000 From: LadyNada To: ladynada@ix.netcom.com Subject: NEOTECH discussion list Established: September 28, 1995 NEOTECH mailing list The NEOTECH discussion list is an invitation-only forum for researchers, scientists, and laypeople who are interested in a variety of topics related to Post Modern Sciences and their application. Your host and list owner, is Glenda Stocks (ladynada@ix.netcom.com). I was inspired to create this list, by the work of Jerry Decker and his Keelynet network. The following list of topics are examples of the kinds of issues that we would like to address in this forum: Post Modern Scientific Thought Free energy theory and devices Aether theories Anti-Gravity and FTL theory Devices and Applications Alternative Health Sacred Geometry - special ratios Conference Announcements Contact Information Suppressed Technologies Hyperdimensional Physics Monoatomic Elements Unified Field Theory Resonance Theory Consciousness Issues related to all of the above We are looking for a friendly and informal atmosphere of mutual sharing of ideas, discoveries, contact information and working projects. Our hope is to bring people on the leading edge of technologies that will be used for the benefit of all people and our planet. Subscribers will be by invitation only and subject to approval by the list owner. Feel free to invite your colleagues and friends. If you would like to be on this discussion list, please send a message to: neotech-request@world.std.com In the body of the message, type the word: subscribe and then on the next line, the word: end After the word, end, please include some comments about your area of interest, which you would like to share in the forum. See example below: ----------------------------------- To: neotech-request@world.std.com re: none subscribe end I am interested in the MRA and TOMI devices. ----------------------------------- Glenda Stocks List-owner ladynada@ix.netcom.com * * SearchNet HeadQuarters BBS 617-961-4865 or 508-586-6977 * Subscribe to our mailing lists. Send a message to * majordomo@world.std.com "subscribe snet-l" * "subscribe i_ufo-l" * From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 21:57:36 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA05005 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:57:33 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA04986 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:57:25 -0700 Received: from net-1-166.austin.eden.com (net-1-166.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.166]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id XAA20818 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 23:57:22 -0500 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 23:57:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199510090457.XAA20818@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: Gravity generating capacitive device X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A At 09:12 AM 10/8/95, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 00:18:41 -700 >From: 7nz8znda roamer >To: billb@eskimo.com >Subject: Gravity generating capacitive device (electric rocket) > > Hi there! I was just wondering if you might know of anyone who >has built one of these devices and would be willing to demonstrate >it on video. Bill, what is this capacitive gravity generator? Did you post a description that I missed? - Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 8 22:37:33 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA11971 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 22:37:28 -0700 Received: from utdallas.edu (root@utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA11939 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 22:37:16 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by utdallas.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id AAA23329; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 00:37:13 -0500 Received: from infoserv.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (Brelay v6.01) with BLIMP; Mon, 09 Oct 1995 00:37:12 CDT Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 00:37:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Chuck Knight To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity generating capacitive device In-Reply-To: <199510090457.XAA20818@matrix.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Scott Little wrote: > Bill, what is this capacitive gravity generator? Did you post a description > that I missed? > > > - Scott Little > EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 > 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) It is available on KeelyNet in Dallas, or on Bill's homepage (www.eskimo.com/~billb). It's menu option is something like "Gravity Capacitor." Get the file...it's *extremely* interesting reading. BTW: Does anyone know why it said specifically to use tin foil, *NOT* aluminum foil? I found that intriguing, and inexplicable. Especially when, later in the article it said that "with today's dielectrics" and other phrases which implied that it was possible to substitute materials. -- Chuck Knight From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 06:35:59 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA24682 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 06:35:55 -0700 Received: from ix5.ix.netcom.com (ix5.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.5]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA24637 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 06:35:44 -0700 Received: from ix-den12-22.ix.netcom.com by ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id GAA04516; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 06:34:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199510091334.GAA04516@ix5.ix.netcom.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Chuck Humphrey" Organization: Next Generation To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:04:07 -0200 Subject: Electrostatic to Electromagnetic energy? X-Confirm-Reading-To: next-gen@ix.netcom.com X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > I'm also interested in the possible o/u effects in capacitive > discharge through electromagnets or solenoids. > Apparently, a company in Indiana is selling F/E engine kits > that are based in principle on the Edwin Gray motor design. > > Their address is : > Creative Science and Research > P.O. box 8001 > New Albany, IN 47150 > > They have kits available for three sizes of motor, 5hp, 20hp, > and 100hp. > > I ordered one set of plans from them which is part gravity > activated and part HV (ala Gray patent). > I wish someone would check these people out besides just myself. It > seems that anyone genuinely interested in F/E would be at least > curious about a commercial organization that allegedly sells true > F/E engine kits and plans. Please excuse my ignorance, but could someone tell me what "F/E" means. I also am interested in the possible o/u effects in capacitive discharge through electromagnets and have been trying to build a device like the testatika. I do not understand how to convert the electrostatic charges stored in leyden jar capacitors into electromagnetic current. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks Chuck Humphrey. *-------------------------------------------------------------* * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * 5023 W 120th Ave #109 * * Broomfield, CO 80020 (303) 754-2927 * * next-gen@ix.netcom.com * * Web site: * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 06:49:00 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA27372 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 06:48:58 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA27346 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 06:48:51 -0700 Received: from net-1-162.austin.eden.com (net-1-162.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.162]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id IAA14427; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:48:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:48:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199510091348.IAA14427@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: TOMI length record? X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:55 AM 10/8/95 -0400, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: > What happens if I place a cylinder of Iron of the same mass, >in places of the magnates? Have I not imparted the same kinetic energy >to the "fields"? No, iron is ferromagnetically ATTRACTED to both N ans S poles. In placing the Fe, work will be done on you with the result that energy is REMOVED from the fields (i.e. you must do work on the Fe to remove it from the magnets). >What if I build the device backwards: I place the runner first, >then place the side rolls? Whats stored in the "fields" then? Energy. There will be no difference in the behavior of the TOMI track resulting from the order in which it is assembled. The energy that pushes the roller up the hill is stored in the magnetic fields when the roller's N poles are forced close to the track's N poles (likewise for the S poles). Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 07:40:27 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA09022 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:40:25 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA08992 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:40:18 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA26564; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:40:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:40:15 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity generating capacitive device In-Reply-To: <199510090457.XAA20818@matrix.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 8 Oct 1995, Scott Little wrote: > At 09:12 AM 10/8/95, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: > > Hi there! I was just wondering if you might know of anyone who > >has built one of these devices and would be willing to demonstrate > >it on video. > > Bill, what is this capacitive gravity generator? Did you post a description > that I missed? Hi Scott! No, it's a recent addition to WEIRD SCIENCE. It has GIFs, so there's not much point to posting it here. See http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird.html It's in the "not your average construction project" section. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 07:45:51 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA10360 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:45:48 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA10331 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:45:40 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA26987; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:45:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:45:38 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity generating capacitive device In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Chuck Knight wrote: ... > BTW: Does anyone know why it said specifically to use tin foil, *NOT* > aluminum foil? I found that intriguing, and inexplicable. Especially > when, later in the article it said that "with today's dielectrics" and > other phrases which implied that it was possible to substitute materials. Possibly because of his use of solder to connect the foil tabs together. Soldering to aluminium foil is just barely possible with special techniques because of the Al oxide layer. This layer might also disrupt the electrical connection between the various small segments in each plate. And as always, there's a chance that the device requires a certain material for unknown reasons. At the turn of the century, if a 'weird' effect required Pitchblende and you substituted an equally-dense piece of lead ore, the effect might not work. I'd track down a source of actual tin foil. This might be difficult. Copper foil is much more readily available, but... That's an awful lot of labor to find out that the effect is sensitive to the makeup of the plates. And if it fails, you'll never be sure if the reason is the lack of tin, or if the whole thing was a joke. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 08:07:27 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA16128 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:07:21 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA16058 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:07:05 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id IAA29677; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:06:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:06:41 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity generating capacitive device In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, William Beaty wrote: > Possibly because of his use of solder to connect the foil tabs together. > Soldering to aluminium foil is just barely possible with special > techniques because of the Al oxide layer. This layer might also disrupt > the electrical connection between the various small segments in each plate. > And as always, there's a chance that the device requires a certain > material for unknown reasons. At the turn of the century, if a 'weird' > effect required Pitchblende and you substituted an equally-dense piece of > lead ore, the effect might not work. I'd track down a source of actual > tin foil. This might be difficult. Copper foil is much more readily > available, but... I have a roll of 3mil copper foil and a stack of waxpaper squares from a bakery supply, all with 2" holes punched in them. But the time and ambition to do the rest has been hard to find! And the copper foil might not work. I've been unable to find tin. And even if I did, the task of cutting it up and assembling the device is too much for my limited spare time at present. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 03:52:00 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA12796 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:51:43 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA12778 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:51:36 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA16072 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id FAA22493; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:50:53 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: Model Mechanics theory, new issues. (fwd) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 1995 12:21:45 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 202 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> >Ken, >> >If a fixed lenght of fiber optic is a universal clock, how does a fiber >> >optic laser gyroscope operate? In such a laser gyro, the acceleration of >> >the laser gyro adds to or subtracts from the velocity of the light in the >> >fiber spool, and therefore changes the interfearance pattern produced by >> >mixing the light from the spool with that of a referance beam. >> >> I merely suggested that a fixed length of fiber optic may be used as an >> universal clock if the speed of light and the length of the fiber remains >> the same in all non-accelerating initial frames. > >Something on my mind for quite a while: if distortions in the flow of >time are possible (such as reported in UFO events, incidence of people >walking into the past and back, tesla coil rumors, etc.,) then we need >some way to measure them. Time of flight through a long optical fiber >might make a sensitive "timewarp" detector. Here are some ramdome time related things, but the first item has experiments on how to measure time's flow: TIME.TXT #38 Last update 04/12/93 Previous update 02/28/86 The following documents are available from the National Technical Information Service (NTIS), an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce: 5285 Port Royal Road, Springfield, VA 22161: (703) 487-4650 JPRS: 45238, 2 May 1968 The possibility of the Experimental Study of the Properties of Time; by N. Kozyrev $9.95 + $3 Shipping ----------------------------------------------------------------- Parts taken from "A Matter of Time", by Richard S. Moseson N2BFG, CQ magazine Pg 35->38, Dec/1985. Atomic Clocks How do atomic clocks work? And who invented them? As Roger Beehler of the National Bureau of Standards explains the clock's operation, cesium atoms are put into a tube called a resonant cavity, inside a long beam machine which IS the atomic clock. The atoms are irradiated with a electromagnetic field, and they align themselves in the field with with one magnet. They flip back and forth at a fixed rate, and keep doing it as long as the field is at the exact resonant frequency. (If the field is off frequency, the atoms do nothing.) That rate, when the atoms are filipping, is exactly 9,192,631,770 per second. Conveniently, the frequency needed to make them flip is 9.192631770 GHz, and the count of the flipping atoms is fed back as a frequency standard to keep the field on frequency. [Phase Locked Loop, PLL] According to Dr. Winkler of the Naval Observatory, the idea of an atomic clock was first suggested 40 years ago in a lecture by Professor A. Rabi of Columbia University. The oscillation of the cesium atom was first observed in 1952 by Harold Lyons of NBS, according to Beehler. The first atomic standard in full- time operation was at Britain's National Physical Laboratory in 1955. ----------------------------------------------------------------- AT&T Bell Labs breaks laser time barrier-- AT&T Bell Laboratories scientists have created pulses of laser light that last 8 femtoseconds, which is 8 quadrillionths of a second. In that time span, according to Bell Labs, light travels only 3/100th the thickness of a human hair. Scientists use such laser pulses as an electronic flash to take slow motion pictures of atoms and molecules in motion. With this ability scientists can examine instantaneous chemical reactions or electron travel through semiconducting materials. "The shorter the optical pulse, the more opportunities become available for it's use as a research tool," said Charles V. Shank, director of the Electronics Research Laboratory at Bell Labs. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The Speed of Light The following is from: "The New Tesla Electromagnetics and The Secrets of Electrical Free Energy" By T.E. Bearden "Proofs of Free Energy Devices and Supporting Data" By Dr. Rolf Schaffranke Contact the following for more info, and titles: Tesla Book Company 1580 Magnolia Avenue Millbrae, CA 94030 (415) 697-4903 **************************************************************** A paper by Stephen C. Brush in Science of March, 1974, titled "Should the History of Science be Rated 'X'"?, culminating with a statement of Huxley: "Authorities", "disciples", and "schools" are the curse of science and do more to interfere with the work of the scientific spirit than all its enemies". One of the most important cornerstones of today's scientific dogmas dates back to 1905, more than 3/4 of a century ago. Least we forget, television and radar, jet-planes and cyclotrons, moonrockets and close-up photos of the planets of our solar system were nothing but wild fasntasises of science fiction then. The speed of light was assumed to be constant and the maximum possible speed in the universe; vacuum was to be a total void. In reality, the speed of light as measured in the Michelson-Morley experiments was not at all the same in all directions. The "ether-drift" still amounted to the respectable velocity of about five miles per second, and similar results were obtained by D. C. Miller in a series of experiments extending over twenty-five years, from 1902 to 1926. "Even worse, the measurement showed such marked discrepancies with previous results as to occasion a distress call to the U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey, whose surveyors repeatedly remeasured the length of the tube and found no error there," reported the Popular Science Monthly March 1934 issue. And it continued: "More recently, speed of light observations only emphasized the apparent erratic behavior of the light beam that the scientists were attempting to plot. On some days it seems to travel faster than others by as much as 12 miles a second. Its speed seems to vary with the season, and also in a mysterious shorter cycle lasting about 2 weeks. Finally, the scientists ended by taking as AVERAGE of all the readings which has just been announced as 186,271 miles per second". In his paper "A Critical Look At the Theory of Relativity", Library of Congress Cat. No. 77-670044, F. K. Preikschat compiled all know light velocity measurements during the past 300 years or so, from Olaf Roemer in 1676 to the Laser measurements conducted by the National Bureau of Standards (USA) in 1972. Of the 27 experiments undertaken in this field, 18 of them after the turn of this century, it must be concluded that the velocity of light as measured within the reference system of our earth has changed as much as plus/minus 50 KM/SEC, during the past century. Preikschat plotted a curve of these deviations and subsets a possible relationship between sunspot activities and changes of the earth magnetic field during the time period in question. The "universal constancy of light" appears, therefore, as somewhat shaky "empirical evidence" for our cornerstone in physics, especially since Einstein himself has gone on record as saying: "If a single one of the conclusions drawn from it {relativity theory} proves to be wrong, it must be given up; to modify it without destroying the whole structure seems to be impossible". A brand new German book titled "Energy in Abundance", challenges the contemporary high priests of science, the "Guardians of the Status Quo" and uncovers an almost incredible narrowmindedness and ignorance in science, politics and economics, "approaching the criminal" as the author puts it. The speed of light given me too day (11/14/85 at 8:35 AM) by Dr. Taylor of the National Bureau of Standards (USA) was: 299,792,458 Meters per Second (186,282.3971 Miles per second) These mesurments were made in October of 1983. Dr. Taylor made this statement: "The Meter has been redefiend using this number [299,792,458]." Isn't it just great how a unit of length can be changed, so that it will fit in with a theory? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 10:53:43 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA01291 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:53:34 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA01093 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:52:53 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA07580 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:37:48 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510091737.NAA07580@escape.com> Subject: Easy testing Harris device To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:37:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2450 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Forgive me if I am incorrect, but it seems Mr. Harris feels that releasing a runner from rest at the bottom of a hill is not equivalent to "giving it a push". I may be misreading his ideas, or he may lack some knowledge of physics: How, in the presence of magnetic fields a point at the bottom of a hill can have a higher potential energy than the top of the hill, and that work is done against this magnetic field when the runner is brought to the point at the bottom of the hill, and therefore the fact that runner accelerates up a hill after having been held stationary there is no miracle. I will attempt, using ascii graphics, to sketch a simple test of the Harris device. I understand that some readers of this list have constructed the device, and they may wish to test it thusly: | | | | \ / \ / \ / \____________/\/\___________/ The /\/\ in the center of the sketch are the two hills of the Harris setup; one hill can be substituted. The runner is released from a point on a slope relatively large compared to the slopes of the Harris setup, and after it leaves the Harris setup, goes up a slope identical to the one it was released from. The standard model of physics predicts that the runner will reach a height on the second slope lower than that at which it was released. These losses will be due to friction and noise, and heating of the permanent magnets in the Harris setup. In any case, with perfect components, the runner will reach the height of release. It will not rise any higher. If it does go higher, energy has been introduced into the system, and the Harris device would bear further study. The point of my arrangement is that the point of release, up a slope that is far and high above the Harris setup, is a point at which only gravity should be responsible for the runner's potential energy. The Harris device is tricky: in placing the runner at the bottom of the hill, you're placing it at the "top" of a "magnetic hill". The weak force may not be felt by the fingers of the human, in any case it's a subjective experience. By putting the runner at a point so close to the permanent magnets you are introducing potential energy into the system which is then released at the runner rolls away. Charles, eating ginger snaps. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 11:49:29 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA17265 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 11:49:19 -0700 Received: from bluestem.prairienet.org (root@bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA17211 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 11:49:07 -0700 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (w9sz@firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by bluestem.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA13901 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:44:29 -0500 Received: (from w9sz@localhost) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA19074; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:48:56 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:48:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199510091848.NAA19074@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Books Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I have been trying to locate a copy of THE SEA OF ENERGY IN WHICH THE EARTH FLOATS by T. Henry Moray. It seems to be out of print. None of the libraries in Illinois, which I have access to through databases, seem to have it. I have read quite a bit of material on free-energy and "Tesla electromagnetics" in the books of Tom Bearden, papers by Bedini, and others I've found in more conventional physics journals. It took me 6 months to get a copy of THE EXCALIBUR BRIEFING by Tom Bearden through interlibrary loan here; but it is a fascinating book. I'd recommend that anyone with a physics background first read THE MANY-WORLDS INTERPRETATION OF QUANTUM MECHANICS by Hugh Everett. THE EXCALIBUR BRIEFING makes more sense if you understand that reference. Some other papers amd books that furthered my understanding of these theories are "Significance of Electromagnetic Potentials in the Quantum Theory" by D. Bohm and Y. Aharonov, PHYS. REV. 115 (3), 1959 (Landmark!); "Random Electrodynamics: The Theory of Classical Electrodynamics With Classical Electromagnetic Zero-Point Radiation" by T. H. Boyer, PHYS. REV D 11 (4), 1975; "Gravity as a Zero-Point Fluctuation Force" by Hal Puthoff, PHYS REV A 39 (5), March 1989; ORDER OUT OF CHAOS by Ilya Prigogine; GEOMETRODYNAMICS by John Archibald Wheeler. I have a few references I still need to track down, but it helps to be in a city with one of the largest university library systems in the world. I just need more time to look! If anyone has a source for THE SEA OF ENERGY, please let me know. Zack From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 22:18:10 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA27347 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:18:07 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA27316 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:17:55 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id WAA02499; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:17:53 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:17:52 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Timewarp detector In-Reply-To: <199510100323.XAA04659@mail.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, James P. Meyer wrote: > On Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:52:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Something on my mind for quite a while: if distortions in the flow of > >time are possible (such as reported in UFO events, incidence of people > >walking into the past and back, tesla coil rumors, etc.,) then we need > >some way to measure them. Time of flight through a long optical fiber > >might make a sensitive "timewarp" detector. > > Excuse me if I didn't post this reply properly, but this is my first > ever post to a "list". > Hi James! And welcome to this new list. Jumping right into a discussion is perfectly acceptable. > > I can think of a couple of problems with your fiber timewarp > detector. The first one is... If the time that the light spent traveling > through the fiber *did* change, how would you know? Any other "clock" > that you used to measure the time difference would slow down as well and > even if the timewarp were really big and powerful there wouldn't be any > way to tell that you had been in one. This is exactly right. My first sensor design (years ago, and STILL never built) was a timeflow gradient detector made of a pair of crystal oscillators at opposite ends of a pole, with their outputs XORed together. The frequencies would be zeroed by adjustable parallel capacitance. If anything (including temperature variations) made one oscillator run at a different freq than the other, a beat note would be heard in the output. I breadboarded this and discovered that the slightest leakage between the two circuits would cause them to lock into synch. After feeding them from two separate regulators, I found that the system acted as a sensitive thermal gradient detector, and touching the case of one crystal would send the beat note wailing. A complete detector would need 'crystal ovens' as temperature regulation. And then, would there ever be anything to detect? Well, if I ever build one, I'll finally be able to see for myself if anything weird happens around tesla coils and charged capacitors, with a few hundred PPM of sensitivity. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 22:00:40 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA23639 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 22:00:17 -0700 Received: from utdallas.edu (root@utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA23478 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 21:59:34 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by utdallas.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id XAA22837; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 23:58:57 -0500 Received: from infoserv.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (Brelay v6.01) with BLIMP; Mon, 09 Oct 1995 23:58:57 CDT Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 23:58:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Chuck Knight To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Model Mechanics theory, new issues. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199510100323.XAA04659@mail.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, James P. Meyer wrote: > On Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:52:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Something on my mind for quite a while: if distortions in the flow of > >time are possible (such as reported in UFO events, incidence of people > >walking into the past and back, tesla coil rumors, etc.,) then we need > >some way to measure them. Time of flight through a long optical fiber > >might make a sensitive "timewarp" detector. > > I can think of a couple of problems with your fiber timewarp > detector. The first one is... If the time that the light spent traveling > through the fiber *did* change, how would you know? Any other "clock" > that you used to measure the time difference would slow down as well and > even if the timewarp were really big and powerful there wouldn't be any > way to tell that you had been in one. Perhaps...but this assumes that the clock and the detector are in the *same* temporal distortion. The distortions reported in UFO events, "walking into the past," etc, are usually highly localized distortions. Otherwise, how would the PEOPLE who experienced them, know there was a distortion? Think about it this way...time for the entire world slows down by a factor of 1/2. Would anyone on earth have realized it? Of course not... But if time slows down (or speeds up) just around a Tesla coil, and affects only 1 person...or one building...whatever, by "comparing notes" with someone outside the disturbance, it's easy to see that something happened. For a slight twist on his original question, how could we know that both the clock and the detector were not in two separate distortions? Essentially what I'm asking is how to provide a "control" for the experiment... -- Chuck Knight From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 9 20:24:08 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA02574 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 20:24:05 -0700 Received: from mail.duke.edu (pinky.ac.duke.edu [152.3.102.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA02533 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 20:23:54 -0700 Received: from async101.async.duke.edu (async101.async.duke.edu [152.3.249.101]) by mail.duke.edu (8.6.10/Duke-2.0) with SMTP id XAA04659; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 23:23:42 -0400 Message-Id: <199510100323.XAA04659@mail.duke.edu> From: jimbob@acpub.duke.edu (James P. Meyer) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Model Mechanics theory, new issues. (fwd) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 01:53:24 GMT References: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99b.112 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A On Sun, 8 Oct 1995 10:52:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Something on my mind for quite a while: if distortions in the flow of >time are possible (such as reported in UFO events, incidence of people >walking into the past and back, tesla coil rumors, etc.,) then we need >some way to measure them. Time of flight through a long optical fiber >might make a sensitive "timewarp" detector. Excuse me if I didn't post this reply properly, but this is my first ever post to a "list". I can think of a couple of problems with your fiber timewarp detector. The first one is... If the time that the light spent traveling through the fiber *did* change, how would you know? Any other "clock" that you used to measure the time difference would slow down as well and even if the timewarp were really big and powerful there wouldn't be any way to tell that you had been in one. Jim "no sig" Meyer From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 03:51:56 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA12795 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:51:42 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA12777 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 03:51:36 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA16073 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:49:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id FAA22500; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:50:54 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: Gravity generating capacitive device (electric rocket) (fwd) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:37:27 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 95 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Subject: Gravity generating capacitive device (electric rocket) > I'm also interested in the possible o/u effects in capacitive >discharge through electromagnets or solenoids. > I ordered one set of plans from them which is part gravity >activated and part HV (ala Gray patent). On one of the lists I read the question was raised: They wanted to know why they didn't see more Gravity stuff in the literature. Maybe the did look for the right things. Like "Kontrabaric Effect" or "Contrabaric Effect". Also you have T.T.Browns "Stress In Dielectrics". Here are a couple of papers that link Gravity and Electricity: "An Electrically Charged Torque Pendulum" by Dr. Erwin J. Saxl; Pin Hill, Harvard, Mass. In "Nature" July 11, 1964, Vol 203. pg 138->140. The Dudley Patent: "Apparatus for the Promotion and Control of Vehicular Flight" by H.C. Dudley. 3,095,167. June 25,1963. Its shows that when you reach a -350KV electrostatic charge you should get levitation. At lower potentials you get a reduction in fuel consumption to leave Earth in a rocket. "Electrostatic Levitator With Feedback Control" NASA Tech Briefs Summer 1983. Vol. 7, No. 4, Item #69. NPO-15553/5225 If you want to play with high voltage [Poor choice of words. You are dealing with potentials that *ARE* !!*LETHAL*!!] check these out for some simple schematics: "Battery-Operated High-Voltage Power Supply" NASA Tech Briefs, Spring 1984. Vol. 8, No. 3, GSC-12818 This one has two different titles depending on its source: "Remotely-Adjustable Solid-State High-Voltage Supply". NASA Tech. Briefs Summer 1985. NPO-15719 Or "Adjustable Solid State High Voltage Source" Case number 5184, IR # 15719. JPL 2688-2 (Rev 5-69) 0->5VDC in give 0->20KVDC out. "High-Voltage Isolation Transformer" NASA Tech Briefs, Fall 1984. NASA Tech Briefs, Fall 1984. Vol 9, No. 1 GSC-12817. Some indirectly related things: A report for Hugues Science/Scope, date unknown (early 1980's?): "The electronic rocket engine is ready to be tested aboard a satellite to see how well it functions in the company of other space hardware. Hugues has delivered two engines, called mercury ion thrusters, for installation on a U.S. Air Force research satellite. The goal of the flight test is to qualify the system in space for performing such auxiliary propulsion functions as stationkeeping [Keep from moving], attitude control, and orbit maneuvering of spacecraft. The system is designed to replace tranditional chemical and gas propulsion systems, saving hundreds of pounds of weight. In operation, the thrusters are powered by the satellite's solar cells, which convert sunlight into electricity." See also: "Ion Engine with Solid-Electrolyte Ion Generator" for Winter 1983 NASA Tech Brief Vol. 8, No. 2, Item #27. NPO-15809/5265 "Correcting for Background in Flowing Plasma Measurements: Langmuir-probe end effects allows measurements independent of background plasma" NASA Tech Briefs, Spring 1981 NPO-15332 Some other NASA Ion junk: "Ionic Refrigerator" NASA Tech Brief Fall 1983 Vol. 8, No. 1, Item #69 NPO-15288/4799 "Zero-Net-Charge Air Ionizer" NASA Tech Brief for Spring 1984, Vol. 8, No. 3, Item #23. NPO-15937/5389. "Improved Electronic Control for Electrostatic Precipitators" LAR-13273. "Ion Mass/Velocity/Charge Spectrometer" NASA Tech Brief Vol. 7, No. 2, Item #16. NPO-15423/4910. Have fun, and BE CAREFUL! From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 05:12:43 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA23588 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:12:39 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA23568 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:12:33 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA18090 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:10:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id HAA03299; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:11:52 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: TOMI length record? Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:12:56 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: <199510091348.IAA14427@matrix.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <199510091348.IAA14427@matrix.eden.com> Lines: 12 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> What happens if I place a cylinder of Iron of the same mass, >>in places of the magnates? Have I not imparted the same kinetic energy >>to the "fields"? > >No, iron is ferromagnetically ATTRACTED to both N ans S poles. In placing >the Fe, work will be done on you with the result that energy is REMOVED from >the fields (i.e. you must do work on the Fe to remove it from the magnets). Ok. Now what if I place a non-ferrormagnetic/non-magnetic mass? The kinetic energy that I store does not change, as long as the mass is the same. Yet your "fields" be have differently. Does this not defeat the original "Spring" argument? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 05:12:44 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA23592 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:12:41 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA23567 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 05:12:33 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id HAA18089 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:10:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id HAA03305; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:11:53 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: Electrostatic to Electromagnetic energy? Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:19:14 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: <199510091334.GAA04516@ix5.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <199510091334.GAA04516@ix5.ix.netcom.com> Lines: 13 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Please excuse my ignorance, but could someone tell me what "F/E" >means. "F/E" = Free Energy. A misnomer. Most people think it means some thing from nothing. It actually means a source of unattached energy, IE: A open ended system. One of the simpler ways to view it is to modernize the old Aether concept. The Aether of old was considered static, to days Aether is considered dynamic. I've got a list of about 150 different names, Dirac Sea is one that comes to mind, for this "Aether" stuff over the centuries. "O/U" = Over Unity. You get out more energy than you put in. IE: Greater than 100% efficient. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 06:15:44 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA04963 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:15:40 -0700 Received: from godzilla.acpub.duke.edu (jimbob@godzilla.acpub.duke.edu [152.3.102.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA04917 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:15:23 -0700 Received: (from jimbob@localhost) by godzilla.acpub.duke.edu (8.6.12/Duke-2.2) id JAA23856; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:15:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:15:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "James P. Meyer" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Model Mechanics theory, new issues. (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Chuck Knight wrote: > > I can think of a couple of problems with your fiber timewarp > > detector. The first one is... If the time that the light spent traveling > > through the fiber *did* change, how would you know? Any other "clock" > > Think about it this way...time for the entire world slows down by a > factor of 1/2. Would anyone on earth have realized it? Of course > not... But if time slows down (or speeds up) just around a Tesla coil, > and affects only 1 person...or one building...whatever, by "comparing > notes" with someone outside the disturbance, it's easy to see that > something happened. OK. I see your point. There were some successful measurements of timewarps a number of years ago. They involved two (or more) highly accurate "atomic" clocks flown around the world in airplanes. The clocks were "synchronized" at the same time and the same place, flown east and west around the world, returned to where they started, and compared to a clock that didn't move (relative to the earth) at all. The differences in the readings of the clocks matched to a good percentage what Einstein's math said they would. Ordinary quartz watches can be pretty darned accurate. Perhaps they'd serve the purpose. My second problem with optical fiber time measurements is the difficulty in actually constructing one. My third problem is the belief that homebuilt ones wouldn't be any more sensitive than a watch to time distortions but that, if they weren't built properly, *would* be mort sensitive to temperature, air pressure, and a host of other things that could mess up what you're really trying to measure. Jim "no sig" Meyer From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 06:52:00 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA12707 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:51:58 -0700 Received: from godzilla.acpub.duke.edu (root@godzilla.acpub.duke.edu [152.3.102.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA12691; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:51:50 -0700 Received: (from jimbob@localhost) by godzilla.acpub.duke.edu (8.6.12/Duke-2.2) id JAA25097; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:26:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:26:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "James P. Meyer" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Timewarp detector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, William Beaty wrote: > > Excuse me if I didn't post this reply properly, but this is my first > > ever post to a "list". > > > Hi James! And welcome to this new list. Jumping right into a discussion > is perfectly acceptable. > > My first sensor design (years ago, and STILL never > built) was a timeflow gradient detector made of a pair of crystal > oscillators at opposite ends of a pole, with their outputs XORed together. ............ > would send the beat note wailing. A complete detector would need > 'crystal ovens' as temperature regulation. And then, would there ever be > anything to detect? Well, if I ever build one, I'll finally be able to > see for myself if anything weird happens around tesla coils and charged > capacitors, with a few hundred PPM of sensitivity. Exactly. You have to be careful. If you had just thrown a detector together and stuck it next to a lump of dirt, you could have claimed that dirt causes timewarps because the frequency changed. 8-) Jim From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 06:36:00 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA09176 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:35:59 -0700 Received: from godzilla.acpub.duke.edu (jimbob@godzilla.acpub.duke.edu [152.3.102.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA09154 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:35:53 -0700 Received: (from jimbob@localhost) by godzilla.acpub.duke.edu (8.6.12/Duke-2.2) id JAA26025; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:35:50 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:35:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "James P. Meyer" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity generating capacitive device (electric rocket) (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Bob Paddock wrote: > A report for Hugues Science/Scope, date unknown (early 1980's?): > > "The electronic rocket engine is ready to be tested aboard a > satellite to see how well it functions in the company of other space > hardware. Hugues has delivered two engines, called mercury ion > thrusters, for installation on a U.S. Air Force research satellite. I worked for a company that built some HV power supplies for ion engines. I think the group that actually made the engines that our supplies were for was Republic Aviation, but this was back in the late '60's, so I could be wrong. Ion engines work by blasting ions out the back. They are not any different from chemical rocket engines in that both use "action-reaction" to make thrust. The electricity is only used to "heat" the fuel like burning does in a "normal" rocket engine. Jim "no sig" Meyer From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 06:36:58 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA09415 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:36:53 -0700 Received: from bluestem.prairienet.org (root@bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA09380 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 06:36:44 -0700 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (w9sz@firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by bluestem.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA15585 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:32:05 -0500 Received: (from w9sz@localhost) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA06442; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:36:38 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:36:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199510101336.IAA06442@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrostatic to Electromagnetic energy? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >>Please excuse my ignorance, but could someone tell me what "F/E" >>means. > > "F/E" = Free Energy. A misnomer. Most people think it means >some thing from nothing. It actually means a source of unattached >energy, IE: A open ended system. One of the simpler ways to view it is >to modernize the old Aether concept. The Aether of old was considered >static, to days Aether is considered dynamic. I've got a list of about >150 different names, Dirac Sea is one that comes to mind, for this >"Aether" stuff over the centuries. > I like the term "space energy receivers" myself. It's a little more descriptive of what is actually being done, and isn't so much of a misnomer. But "free energy" seems to be with us, so I use that too! Zack From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 07:49:26 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA26114 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:49:23 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA26073 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 07:49:11 -0700 Received: from net-1-196.austin.eden.com (net-1-196.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.196]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id JAA12970; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:48:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:48:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199510101448.JAA12970@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: gravity generating capacitor X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Bill, I looked at the article on yr web page. I agree that it's probably a hoax...except there's always that niggling little doubt. 1. Have you ever looked up the patent? I hear that the USPTO is making ALL patent abstracts available on the web real soon (e.g. Nov). 2. To first order...hell, to third order!...there will be _nothing_ inside the bore of that thing. No electric field, no magnetic field...and resumably no gravitational field. Maybe if you could charge it to a teravolt you'd observe some "metric-distorting" effects but the guy just says "use a strong battery or a series of batteries". Obviously he's not talking about any real high voltages... I see you're rather interested in gravity, etc. Have you seen anything about the paper by Haisch, Rueda, and Puthoff which attributes inertia to a Lorentz interaction with the zero-point field? Absolutely fascinating and totally compelling! Gone is the mystery of inertia. In its place is a simple understandable interactione between the charges that make up all matter and the magnetic field components of the ZPF. Traveling at a constant velocity does nothing... but _accelerating_ causes a sort of ZPF pile up in front of the object that results in a drag force that we all know and love as INERTIA! This has very interesting ramifications if true. Can anyone guess them? Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 11:59:29 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA28564 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:59:24 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA28498 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:59:11 -0700 Received: from net-1-214.austin.eden.com (net-1-214.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.214]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id NAA18799; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:59:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:59:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199510101859.NAA18799@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: TOMI length record? X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:12 AM 10/10/95 -0400, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: > Ok. Now what if I place a non-ferrormagnetic/non-magnetic mass? >The kinetic energy that I store does not change, as long as the mass is >the same. Yet your "fields" be have differently. Does this not defeat >the original "Spring" argument? I'm confused by some of this question but here goes, anyway: Placing a non-magnetic mass on the ramp will not perturb the magnetic fields so no energy exchange will occur with the fields. You mentioned storing kinetic energy...that only occurs when you accelerate an object up to some velocity. Placing an object somewhere changes only its potential energy. Once placed, it always has zero kinetic energy. As far as I can see, my original spring argument...i.e. that magnetic objects moving in magnetic fields can be precisely modeled as if there were springs attached...is still good. Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 18:09:26 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA11803 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:07:58 -0700 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com (mail06.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.108]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA11725 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 18:07:38 -0700 From: RussellHL@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA11422 for freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:05:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:05:33 -0400 Message-ID: <951010210528_120873249@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Robert Adams - Adams Pulse Electric Motor Generator. Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello All, I recently purchased a book call "The Free-Energy Device Handbook" printed by AUP, ISBN 0-932813-24-0. In this book I found two articles on the Adams Pulse Electric Motor Generator, which were reprints form NEXUS Magazine. Anyway, there seems to be enough information here to build one of these devices, provided you know a little about electronics. I myself am pressing on with making one, and would appreciate any and all the information any of you can offer. Here is what it can do, according to the articles and Robert Adams(a former Chairman of the institute of Electrical & Electronics Engineers, Inc., U.S.A,(New Zealand Section)): Article 1 Robert Adams - Adams Pulse Electric Motor Generator. "It is, in fact, a device that converts the perpetual motion of sub-atomic particles, known in physics terminology as "Particle Spin", into conventional electric power." "...Adams has built a number of permanent magnet electric D.C. motor generators based on the principle outline in this article, some of which have demonstrated an electrical efficiency of 690% and a mechanical efficiency of 620%." Article 2 - Update Robert Adams - Adams Advanced Motor Generator. "...Several people in different countries have already succeeded in building the machine in its original form, as has been outlined in the 'Adams Manual', or 'Mark II' version." Basically, it runs itself and then some - "Over Unity" - for those of you advanced types... If anyone can help, please help. I curious about this "Adams Manual" to. Thanks, Russ. P.S. I'm in the proccess of bringing these articles to you as soon as I finish OCR on them. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 20:24:48 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA10159 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:22:43 -0700 Received: from utdallas.edu (utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA09704 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 20:20:35 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by utdallas.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id VAA22438; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:43:45 -0500 Received: from infoserv.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (Brelay v6.01) with BLIMP; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:43:45 CDT Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 21:43:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Chuck Knight To: RussellHL@aol.com cc: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Robert Adams - Adams Pulse Electric Motor Generator. In-Reply-To: <951010210528_120873249@mail06.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Russell...let us know how your experiments turn out. I'm on the electric vehicle listserv, and this sounds like an ideal power source for an electric vehicle...clean and having no problems with power storage. *IF* it actually works, that is... I'm a natural skeptic when it comes to overunity claims...but if it works it would be ideal. I'm saving your message, and if you don't mind, I'll compile it, and your response, and cross-post them to the EV list. -- Chuck Knight On Tue, 10 Oct 1995 RussellHL@aol.com wrote: > I recently purchased a book call "The Free-Energy Device Handbook" printed by > AUP, ISBN 0-932813-24-0. In this book I found two articles on the Adams > Pulse Electric Motor Generator, which were reprints form NEXUS Magazine. > Anyway, there seems to be enough information here to build one of these > devices, provided you know a little about electronics. I myself am pressing > on with making one, and would appreciate any and all the information any of > you can offer. > ... > "...Adams has built a number of permanent magnet electric D.C. motor > generators based on the principle outline in this article, some of which have > demonstrated an electrical efficiency of 690% and a mechanical efficiency of > 620%." > ... > Basically, it runs itself and then some - "Over Unity" - for those of you > advanced types... From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 19:18:16 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA28099 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:17:29 -0700 Received: from bos1h.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1h.delphi.com [192.80.63.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA28026 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:17:06 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWAHK6JNS0923DKV@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:15:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: Electrostatic to Electromagnetic energy? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWAHK6JNS2923DKV@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 10-OCT-1995 08:13:15.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >"O/U" = Over Unity. You get out more energy than you put in. >IE: Greater than 100% efficient. Rather blase approach. Would this not also indicate some production of energy from nothing. If you get out more than you put in, where does the 'O' come from? PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;31;43mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 19:18:50 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA28256 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:18:13 -0700 Received: from bos1f.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1f.delphi.com [192.80.63.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA28137 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 19:17:36 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWAHKAS3TI923DKV@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:15:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: TOMI length record? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWAHKASDGO923DKV@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 10-OCT-1995 08:13:15.7 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >>> What happens if I place a cylinder of Iron of the >>>in plasame mass, ces of the magnates? Have I not imparted >energy >the same kinetic >to the "fields"? >>No, iron is ferromagnetically ATTRACTED to both N ans S >ppoles. In lacing >the Fe, work will be done on you with the >iresult that energy s REMOVED from >the fields (i.e. you must >ido work on the Fe to remove t from the magnets). I do not understand this argument. My magnetic runner is, at what would be the normal lock end, and can be that in many implementations, also is magnetically attracted to both N and S poles. But it still works. The lock, because of the acceleration, never occurs. This is the difference between perpendicular and parallel movement. The literature today has no instance where movement between two magnetic masses does not endup in a lock. This was the basis of the Bureau of Standards refusing to look at this: The work done by moving the mass is less than the work necessary to unlock the masses! The magnetic lock has, until now, been the obstacle. The gentleman who wrote the above should write a paper on his statement. I surely am not qualified to do so. I would also add that there is no literature, except what is written about my TOMI that alludes to moving any mass between two separate magnetic entities and does not lock up. >Ok. Now what if I place a non-ferrormagnetic/non-magnetic >mass? The kinetic energy that I store does not change, as >long as the mass is the same. Yet your "fields" be have >differently. Does this not defeat the original "Spring" >argument? Thre is no spring effect. Nothing will happen. This, to me, has always been the premise which negated the spring-effect argument. If passing the mass through the gate was ever the basis for the subsequent motion, then any mass would climb the action. It climbs the incline because of a reaction between the configured magnetic masses. (If encased in plastic, a piece of iron will work. It simply needs control to prevent flipping. But it is not the most efficient and it may not succeed in as must work being done as with a magnetic runner. But it will be moved parallel to the tracks.) And changes can be effected in the speed, power, etc., with configuration changes, even down to a consistent failure if TOMI is not properly implemented. I believe this misunderstanding is what is keeping people from reproducing my advanced models. Can anyone follow this and supply an answer: I can demonstrate that by increasing the mass involved, both with regard to the tracks and runner, that more work is done and more energy is, therefore, required. This would seem to agree with e = mc^2. For purposes of discussion I temporarily discard c^2 as being a constant. I can't vounch for this because I really don't know about this stuff. But I see it, from a purely algebraic viewpoint, that if I increase 'm' then 'e' will increase. If I decrease 'm' then 'e' will decrease. I have learned that work = mass x distance. (Please forbear with my simplicity. It is for my benefit, not that of those who might read this.) I also perceive, and I could be wrong, that e sort of = w. I base this on the concept that e represents the availabity of work which can be accomplished. With my basic demo. there is a certain mass in the tracks and another mass, the runner. In the following there is no change in the mass of the runner, the exhibiter of work which has been done. In other words, the runner (m) is lifted (d) and that, multiplied, equals w, which requires e. I can demonstrate the conventional results of increasing the mass in my tracks and it will increase the acceleration and power of the system. This is the norm, as I understand! There are a dozen ways this can be done, but I do not think anyone has really gone into this as much as I had hoped. But what if I also demonstrate that I can increasse the mass of the tracks but it decreases the work done. In other words, I will increase the mass of the tracks -- which should increase the distance the runner will move and I do in the first example -- but the runner will move less of a distance. (I do not inject any friction or distoritions. No change in the runner at all.) And then, in another demonstration, show that I can decrease the mass of the tracks and increase the power and acceleration of work done which means an increase in e. More to the point, I can demonstrate that I can decrease the mass of the tracks but raise the same mass to a greter height. In other words, I can demonstrate the following relationships: Discarding momentarily the constant c^2: m + results in e- m + results in e+ m - results in e+ There is another set of relationships embodied in the following statement: I can change e simply by changing the shape or physical configuration of m. And it can be parallel with the above relationships. m+ Results in e-. I can increase the mass of the tracks without changing the the runner, but the runner will not climb the incline. This demonstrates e- = m+. m+ Results in e+. I can increase the mass of the tracks and increase the mass of the runner and will operate as it does not, going up and down the inclines. In this example, I demonstrate that since the runner's mass is greater, it takes a greater amount of e to accomplish the job. So this is e+ = m+ m- This is the exact opposit of Einstein's postulate as I see it. I decrease the size of the mass and increase the acceleration and power of the runner. This would require more energy, it seems, and I would be achieving this increase by simply decreasing the mass, a contradiction. So this is e+ = m-. And the more I decrease the mass of the tracks, the faster the runner will go and/or the more weight that can be lifted. I can also demonstrate m- = e-, but that is nothing more than a reverse statement of m+ = e+. So the contradiction is see with e = mc^2 is what would appear to be the demonstration of reducing mass but increasing energy: e+ = (m-)c^2 Since the above does not cause e and m to increase and decrease in unison, but in a manner of convergence and divergence, it would then seem to indicate that the e involved is in the magnetic tracks, since changing m can affect and even control e. I do not believe that, since the three diverse effects can be demonstrated, that anyone can demonstrate three different ways of pushing the mass through the repulsion field to account of these empirical demonstrations. I am incorporating this into my TOMI explanations, and I do utilize these relationships in my design considerations. Please forgive me if this seems problematic to the current science. I do not mean it to be a problem. But I have not received an answer to what I know can be done, so I have no choice but to create my own theories. I will be happy to entertain any refutation, but it can be demonstrated, and will be shown, that three different masses can demonstrate the divergent results I have outlined. My only real interest is in the explanation of: e+ resulting from m- and pushing it through the 'magic gate' with what one must presume is the same magnetic fields. Now it does seem possible that if I change the magnetic fields in any way, decrease the mass in the process (not the runner, mind you), achieve more powerful results, I have manipulated an energy source and not change the technique of entrance, the spring, if one likes. If one wishes to cling to that thought, I assume they will say that the spring has been pulled back further than in the first instance. But only the manual input exists. In the case of those who speak of a magnetic mountain, then I have reduced the size of the mountain but increase the work capability, m- = e+ Pat Harris = PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;36;47mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 22:12:19 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA03842 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:11:51 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA03740 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:11:21 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id AAA10636 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 00:55:36 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510110455.AAA10636@escape.com> Subject: Re: gravity generating capacitor To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 00:55:36 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510101448.JAA12970@matrix.eden.com> from "Scott Little" at Oct 10, 95 09:48:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1297 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > I see you're rather interested in gravity, etc. Have you seen anything > about the paper by Haisch, Rueda, and Puthoff which attributes inertia to a > Lorentz interaction with the zero-point field? Absolutely fascinating and > totally compelling! Gone is the mystery of inertia. In its place is a > simple understandable interactione between the charges that make up all > matter and the magnetic field components of the ZPF. Traveling at a > constant velocity does nothing... but _accelerating_ causes a sort of ZPF > pile up in front of the object that results in a drag force that we all know > and love as INERTIA! Can you give us a link to the paper? > > This has very interesting ramifications if true. Can anyone guess them? > It would explain the portion of inertial mass not explained by purely electromagnetic considerations. By Lorentz Interaction I assume to mean a relativistic effect, like length contraction and time dilation. Why, according to this theory, would gravitational mass be equivalent to inertial mass, however? > > Scott Little > EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA > 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) __________________________ Charles Man of Slack and Adventure From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 22:52:49 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA12735 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:52:25 -0700 Received: from bluestem.prairienet.org (root@bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA12618 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:51:53 -0700 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (w9sz@firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by bluestem.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA14222 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 00:47:02 -0500 Received: (from w9sz@localhost) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA17675; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 00:51:36 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 00:51:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199510110551.AAA17675@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrostatic to Electromagnetic energy? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >On 10-OCT-1995 08:13:15.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS > > >"O/U" = Over Unity. You get out more energy than you put in. > >IE: Greater than 100% efficient. > >Rather blase approach. Would this not also indicate some >production of energy from nothing. If you get out more than you >put in, where does the 'O' come from? > It comes from spacetime, also referred to as the zero-point energy, Zitterbewegung, quantum foam, space energy, tachyon field, graviton field, virtual particle flux, etc. etc. (a lot of names for it!) Spacetime in its naturally occurring state is made up of particles which move in a totally random fashion, which contains an enormous quantity of energy that is not useful in that state. John Archibald Wheeler, in his book GEOMETRODYNAMICS, stated the quantity of energy is on the order of 5.0 X 10E93 grams/cubic centimeter !! The idea is to "kick" the totally random zero-point fluctuations and cause them to cohere, thereby getting energy from spacetime itself. Some of the "Maxwell's Devils" (as I've seen them referred to) which can supposedly actually produce this effect are heavy ions (rechargeable batteries, plasmas, other electrolytes) and magnetic materials. This is the simplest explanation for it. And that's what we're playing with! Zack Widup From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 10 23:27:02 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA20004 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:26:30 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA19857 for ; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:25:47 -0700 Received: from net-1-165.austin.eden.com (net-1-165.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.165]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id BAA08027 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 01:25:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 01:25:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199510110625.BAA08027@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Inertia X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:55 AM 10/11/95, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: > >Can you give us a link to the paper? I don't think its on the 'net. It's a Physics Review paper. I will get the reference and post it here. >> This has very interesting ramifications if true. Can anyone guess them? > >It would explain the portion of inertial mass not explained by purely >electromagnetic considerations. huh? >By Lorentz Interaction I assume to mean a relativistic effect, No. I mean F=ilB...the force exerted on a charge moving in a magnetic field...i.e. the reason electric motors work. >Why, according to this theory, would gravitational mass be equivalent to >inertial mass, however? Because, of course, gravity itself is another manifestation of the zero-point field. All masses shield the ZPF slightly and thus the space between two masses is slightly deficient in ZPF. This results in a force that pushes the two masses together. Just like inertia "pushes" on an accelerating mass. Scott "Ex vacuo omne" From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 09:52:15 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01251 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:48:46 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA29987 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:43:33 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA03695 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:41:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id LAA06267; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:42:14 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: Electrostatic to Electromagnetic energy? Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 07:59:37 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: <01HWAHK6JNS2923DKV@delphi.com> In-Reply-To: <01HWAHK6JNS2923DKV@delphi.com> Lines: 17 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In article <01HWAHK6JNS2923DKV@delphi.com>, you wrote: > >On 10-OCT-1995 08:13:15.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS > > >"O/U" = Over Unity. You get out more energy than you put in. > >IE: Greater than 100% efficient. > >Rather blase approach. Would this not also indicate some >production of energy from nothing. If you get out more than you >put in, where does the 'O' come from? It is entrained from the ambient environment. Sucked out of the Aether if you like. The "F/E" definition that appeared before the "O/U" one, covered this. Don't know about blase, but I like simple to grasp.... Maybe I could dig up some long hair math about the Direc Sea instead... ;-) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 09:52:16 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01089 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:47:59 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA29988 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:43:32 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA03701 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:41:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id LAA06292; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:42:18 -0500 (CDT) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Subject: Re: Inertia Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:06:06 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Seneca, PA Message-ID: References: <199510110625.BAA08027@matrix.eden.com> In-Reply-To: <199510110625.BAA08027@matrix.eden.com> Lines: 7 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Because, of course, gravity itself is another manifestation of the >zero-point field. All masses shield the ZPF slightly and thus the space >between two masses is slightly deficient in ZPF. This results in a force >that pushes the two masses together. Just like inertia "pushes" on an >accelerating mass. So you agrea that "Gravity is A Push"? :-) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 09:52:13 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01009 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:47:51 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA29973 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:43:28 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA03728 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:41:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id LAA06384; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:42:32 -0500 (CDT) From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Newsgroups: list.freenrg To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Fields verses Lorentz? (P.Graneu) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 12:31:37 -0400 Organization: Matric Limited, Franklin, PA Message-ID: Lines: 146 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I understand that Graneu now as a book out called "Ampere-Neumann Electrodynamics of Metals". Any one know where to get it (ISBN?)? I wrote this long ago: Kinetic Energy Weapons (KEWs) verses Lorentz - 05/20/88 [snip] The one common tread that runs between all of these odds-and-ends, is that there are usually some 'anomalies' to each of the "Laws", that the "Law" itself does not account for, at some scale. My view is that if it is a "Law" it should work no matter what the scale, from microscopic to macroscopic. As an example, Lorentz's law didn't break down until someone tried to use macroscopic currents in a Railgun. Here are the specific references to Kinetic Energy Weapons : [Any one know where I can get more of such info?] 1) "Railgun Research Shoots Holes In Lorentz's Theory": pg 49; "Railgun Research Shoots Holes In Lorentz Law Of Electromagnetism": pg 50; by Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times Monday, April 6, 1987 pg 49 2) "Anomalies In Electromagnetic Law Spur Debate" pg 58, by Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times Monday, September 14, 1987. 3) "Electrons And Conduction: Not So Simple After All": pg 21; "Lorentz No Longer Gives Answers Ampere's Theory Holds Clues to Current Problem": pg 22, by Chappell Brown, Electronic Engineering Times, Monday, December 28, 1987 4) "Debate Over Use Of Energy Weapons Thrives" pg 41, by ? Van Nostrand; Electronic Engineering Times, Monday, September 7, 1987 5) "Dusting Off An Old Idea: Shooting Into Orbit": pg 37, by Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times, Monday, August 31, 1987 6) Defense Electronics, May 1988 Vol. 20, #5, "SDI: More Spin- Offs Than Apollo?" Pg 39-45, by J.W.R -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ref #2: "It is important to realize that the mismatch between theory and observation is not some barely discernible quantity. [It] involves factors in the thousands." So says Peter Graneau, a Physicist at Northeastern University's Center of Electromagnetics Research, commenting on anomalies in Lorentz's force law. "The situation is more than academic bickering, since the formula is one of the pillars of relativity theory." "Graneau has shown that objects move, buckle and break under forces that are not found in current electromagnetic equations." -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ref #3: "...the Ampere and Lorentz laws only agree for closed circuits. When the source of the electromagnetic effect is an isolated current element, a large discrepancy appears." "Amperean forces also explain the wire fragmentation that occurs at high currents. Current-element analysis also explains the existence of the longitudinal electromagnetic waves that were observed by Radio pioneer Nikola Tesla. Because such waves cannot be derived from Maxwell's equations, Tesla's experiments were ignored..." [Or were they actively suppressed? See the references referring to T. E. Bearden, and Scalar waves.] -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ref #5: "A physicist [Peter Graneau] at Northeastern University has found that current pulses in water can develop strong forces which, when contained in a gun barrel, produce unprecedented muzzle velocities." "...Northeastern's new electromagnetics research center has uncovered a new 'electrodynamic' phenomenon, dubbed the "alpha torque," that only manifests itself in liquid conductors like air, water and molten metals. The results show that the new method of propulsion can easily out-perform both chemical explosives and electromagnetic rail guns." "The crucial issue is how electric arcs generate these forces in fluids. We have given up on thermodynamic explanations. Ruling out gravitational and nuclear forces, there really remains no choice but to seek an electrodynamic explanation," "Graneau calculates that a 2-million-amp arc explosion in a 350-meter barrel would accelerate a 20-kg projectile to 13 km per second." "Graneau has had to resurrect an older formulation of electromagnetic theory in order to explain the arc explosions. The theory was originated by the French physicist Andre-Marie Ampere at the beginning of the 19th century and was further elaborated by A. F. Neuman in Germany." In the modern formulation, the Lorentz formula governs the movement of electrons in electromagnetic fields. "Applying the Lorentz formula to the water arc experiments leads to an entirely different prediction of the propagated forces. A much smaller force acting to contain the plasma was predicted, and this helped derail applications of arc forces." -------------------------------------------------------------------- Here are a few notes of my own. Lightning is an arc force. So what are some useful things we can do with it? The projectiles that are fired by KEWs must survive, and maintain there aerodynamic properties, when they impact with the air at the end of their muzzles. Firing a bullet at 10 km per second into air, would be like driving your car into a brick wall at 1000 mph; instant pan-cake. Some type of ceramic material would probably be the best avenue to pursue for the projectile. Can we pick up some distilled water, or maybe mineral water (a good point to experiment with), at the super market, a few dozen 300,000 uF caps at a hamfest, and make our own arc force powered 'Plastic Soda Bottle' launcher, without blowing ourself up? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 22:54:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA26667 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:41:31 -0700 Received: from bluestem.prairienet.org (root@bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA26100 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:37:23 -0700 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (w9sz@firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by bluestem.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA04252 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:29:28 -0500 Received: (from w9sz@localhost) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA12898; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:33:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:33:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199510111833.NAA12898@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-list@ESKIMO.COM Subject: Re: Fields verses Lorentz? (P.Graneu) Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > "Amperean forces also explain the wire fragmentation that > occurs at high currents. Current-element analysis also > explains the existence of the longitudinal electromagnetic > waves that were observed by Radio pioneer Nikola Tesla. > Because such waves cannot be derived from Maxwell's > equations, Tesla's experiments were ignored..." > [Or were they actively suppressed? See the references > referring to T. E. Bearden, and Scalar waves.] > > One of the most fascinating papers I've read is "Cancer and the Unresolved Health Issues in the Biological Effects of EM Fields and Radiation" by Thomas E. Bearden (a fairly recent paper, 1993.) In the paper, he outlines what happened to Maxwell's formulas around the turn of the century. He states that Maxwell's original formulas were written in quaternions, which are more complicated than differential equations, and that these formulas actually predict scalar waves and other phenomena. But then the formulas were altered to their currently-taught form by Oliver Heaviside, who didn't have the math background to understand quaternions. I got very curious about this and went and got the original copy of Maxwell's TREATISE ON ELECTRICITY AND MAGNETISM. Sure enough, Bearden was right! I also did a small survey of EE students and a few professors here at the University of Illinois. NONE of the people I asked had ever seen Maxwell's original book! So for whatever reason, something was covered up! Zack From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 22:54:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA19162 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 16:17:09 -0700 Received: from phoenix.net (root@phoenix.phoenix.net [199.3.232.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA18914 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 16:15:41 -0700 Received: from rumgod.phoenix.net (dial47.phoenix.net [199.3.234.82]) by phoenix.net (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA09196 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:14:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:14:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199510112314.SAA09196@phoenix.net> X-Sender: rumgod@phoenix.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: rumgod@phoenix.net (A J Interests, Inc) Subject: Re: Robert Adams - Adams Pulse Electric Motor Generator. Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thanks in advance for the OCR effort, be sure to let us know when they are ready, Art >Thanks, Russ. > >P.S. I'm in the proccess of bringing these articles to you as soon as I >finish OCR on them. > > > From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 11 13:37:18 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA22387 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:36:48 -0700 Received: from oroboros.demon.co.uk (oroboros.demon.co.uk [158.152.100.96]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA21912 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:34:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 19:13:27 GMT From: CRSM@oroboros.demon.co.uk (Chris Morriss) Message-Id: <9433@oroboros.demon.co.uk> To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Robert Adams - Adams Pulse Electric Motor Generator. X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 23 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There's one BIG problem with this. NO-ONE has got one of these things to power itself. Adams' claims of 690% efficiency must be taken with a large pinch of salt. Even using ordinary dc generators as a load, a true efficiency of 690% (how was it measured I must ask), would easily be capable of providing enough generated power to run itself. And YES, I have built designs of his and found <100% electrical to mechanical conversion. (I used a dc motor as a generator with a resistive load to load the system, having previously characterised the dc motor as to its conversion efficiency.) If Adams's claims were true, and he did mean a >600% E to M efficiency, then his true efficiency would be much greater as his designs make no attempt to recover the stored energy in the coil at the instant of switch off, giving a large voltage spike across the switch. This energy may be partially recovered with a 'flyback' diode and capacitor (as in an SMPSU) or by L-C resonant circuits. As soon as someone can really provide positive feedback to self power such a device, they won't need to keep selling tired old photocopies of articles to credulous enthusiasts, they'll be sitting back and watching the millions flood in. (Yes I am trying to achieve this!) Bye for now, -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 12 07:42:11 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12151 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 07:41:39 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12076 for ; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 07:41:24 -0700 Received: from net-1-235.austin.eden.com (net-1-235.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.235]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id JAA08199; Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:41:20 -0500 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:41:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199510121441.JAA08199@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Ampere forces, etc. X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Despite all that has been written about Ampere forces, there remains quite a bit of disagreement on the subject. In particular, the rail-gun argument in favor of Ampere forces seems to be flawed. I work with an engineer who was formerly at the Center for Electromechanics at UT, Austin. They have done a great deal of sophisticated development work on rail guns and this guy was one of the FEA specialists who actually analyzed every aspect of the gun's electrical and magnetic behavior. He says there is no mystery at all...that the reaction force DOES appear on the rails and that it is generated on the portion of the current that travels transverse to the axis of the rails as it "turns the corner" to go thru the projectile to the other rail. He has done detailed computer modeling of this and says its all explained by JXB forces (i.e. Lorentz forces). Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 07:39:06 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA16637 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:38:54 -0700 Received: from escape.com (chope@escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA16616 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:38:46 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA19171 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:23:27 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510131423.KAA19171@escape.com> Subject: Re: Inertia To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:23:27 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510110625.BAA08027@matrix.eden.com> from "Scott Little" at Oct 11, 95 01:25:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1325 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > At 12:55 AM 10/11/95, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: > > >> This has very interesting ramifications if true. Can anyone guess them? > > > >It would explain the portion of inertial mass not explained by purely > >electromagnetic considerations. > > huh? Some fraction of the inertial mass is explainable as a purely electromagnetic phenomena (Feynman Lectures, volume 2, chaper 28). Now you say the ZPF may explain inertia too, which you account for the rest of the mass that's not covered by EM. > > >Why, according to this theory, would gravitational mass be equivalent to > >inertial mass, however? > > Because, of course, gravity itself is another manifestation of the > zero-point field. All masses shield the ZPF slightly and thus the space > between two masses is slightly deficient in ZPF. This results in a force > that pushes the two masses together. Just like inertia "pushes" on an > accelerating mass. > So gravitational mass and inertial mass are equivalent because they represent the very same phenomena! Very interesting -- but then the ZPF would have to be linked to the spacetime distortion that mass causes, in order to connect this new conception of gravity to General Relativity. Is this being done? > > Scott "Ex vacuo omne" > > Charles chope@escape.com From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 08:49:39 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA04383 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:49:05 -0700 Received: from escape.com (root@escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA04098 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:48:03 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA23675 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:17:04 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510131517.LAA23675@escape.com> Subject: Re: Fields verses Lorentz? (P.Graneu) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:17:03 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510111833.NAA12898@firefly.prairienet.org> from "Zack Widup" at Oct 11, 95 01:33:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2241 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > One of the most fascinating papers I've read is "Cancer and the > Unresolved Health Issues in the Biological Effects of EM Fields and > Radiation" by Thomas E. Bearden (a fairly recent paper, 1993.) > > In the paper, he outlines what happened to Maxwell's formulas around the > turn of the century. He states that Maxwell's original formulas were > written in quaternions, which are more complicated than differential > equations, and that these formulas actually predict scalar waves and > other phenomena. But then the formulas were altered to their > currently-taught form by Oliver Heaviside, who didn't have the math > background to understand quaternions. This is an erroneous idea of Bearden's which has spread around the community for several years now. > > I got very curious about this and went and got the original copy of > Maxwell's TREATISE ON ELECTRICITY AND MAGNETISM. Sure enough, Bearden was > right! I also did a small survey of EE students and a few professors here > at the University of Illinois. NONE of the people I asked had ever seen > Maxwell's original book! Bearden is correct about the history. Heaviside did rewrite the Treatise using vector notation. But he did not change any of the physics. The two formulations give the same results. Quaternions are ordered quintuples. Vectors are ordered triples (in this case). A quaternion can be considered a scalar glued to a vector. I have read Maxwell's original work. As the tome fell apart in my hands I saw that Maxwell used quaternions as variables, but really only used the final three components. Maxwell wrote before the development of the dot and cross products of vector algebra, and so had to write out his equations tediously, writing each component. Heaviside wrote after the development of the dot and cross products, and rewrote the equations using these 2 operators. If you unravel the Heaviside formulation component by component, you will see that is it identical to Maxwell's. Nothing was changed at all. The physics is the same. > > So for whatever reason, something was covered up! > > Zack > ___________________________________________ Charles, fearfully accessing the zero phase. chope@escape.com From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 16:57:58 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA29804 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:57:01 -0700 Received: from igate.3do.COM (igate.3do.com [198.211.30.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA29446 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:55:32 -0700 Received: from badger.3do.com (badger.3do.com [198.211.30.7]) by igate.3do.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA14671 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:46:22 -0700 Received: from 3do.com (qm) by badger.3do.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15415; Fri, 13 Oct 95 16:51:02 PDT Message-Id: Date: 13 Oct 1995 16:46:26 -0800 From: "Craig Nelson" Subject: Meyer Style Electrolysis To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm interested in replicating Stanley Meyer's electrolysis work. Anyone out there up on the particulars, especially frequency? I've read the patents and I think I'm ready to start playing. Why am I interested? Well first off, electrolysis using pure water sounds useful, but mostly I'm intrigued with the high voltage disassociation mechanism. I don't think Meyer's explanation is correct, rather I suspect it works by field emission of electrons. To get a quantity of gas you need a quantity of electrons (ie current). But at high voltage (low current) there would seem to be insufficient quantity of electrons. Therefore I suspect electrons are being emitted from sharp points on the electrodes. (a sort of transformer action to get back to high current low voltage) Anyway, any comments welcome. craig.nelson@3do.com From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 17:02:00 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA00765 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:00:59 -0700 Received: from igate.3do.COM (igate.3do.com [198.211.30.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA00649 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:00:12 -0700 Received: from badger.3do.com (badger.3do.com [198.211.30.7]) by igate.3do.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA14702 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:51:25 -0700 Received: from 3do.com (qm) by badger.3do.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15453; Fri, 13 Oct 95 16:56:03 PDT Message-Id: Date: 13 Oct 1995 16:53:41 -0800 From: "Craig Nelson" Subject: H2, O2 recombiner To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Another question. Can anyone give me any practical tips on an H2 O2 recombiner? My temptation is to just get a bit of platinum wire and keep it in the gas mix. Do I need a platinum sponge? What sort of volume of gas mix will a small bit of wire handle? Will it oscillate? By this I mean will it wait for sufficient gas build up, then explode it all, then wait again, or is it a slow sort of water forms on the wire process? Any experience out there? Thanks, craig.nelson@3do.com From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 13 22:43:03 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA12634 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 22:42:48 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA12619 for ; Fri, 13 Oct 1995 22:42:42 -0700 Received: from net-1-239.austin.eden.com (net-1-239.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.239]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id AAA09457 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:42:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:42:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199510140542.AAA09457@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: Meyer Style Electrolysis X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 04:46 PM 10/13/95 -0800, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: >I'm interested in replicating Stanley Meyer's electrolysis work. >To get a quantity of gas you need a quantity of electrons (ie current). Right...the two are directly related...in fact, the only mechanism for electrons to move thru the water is via dissociation. Two electrons come down the cathode wire and jump off onto H nuclei freeing them from solution and simultaneously two electrons jump off an O atom onto the anode freeing the O atom from solution. >But >at high voltage (low current) there would seem to be insufficient quantity of >electrons. Huh? This doesn't make sense to me. If you put a higher voltage across the electrodes the current will be higher...not lower. The cell behaves essentially like a resistor. - Scott Little EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From billb@mail.eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 02:08:14 1995 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA10623 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 02:08:13 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id CAA06913; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 02:08:11 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 02:08:11 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: William Beaty Subject: time (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 15:29:46 +0000 From: LadyNada To: neotech@world.std.com Subject: time -> SearchNet's neotech Mailing List Again, please post as anon: In response to Wm. Beatty regarding measuremnt of time: A simple instrument has been constructed to measure possible local time anomalies. The time standard is semiconductor recombination time of a single crystal or poly crystalline photo voltaic cell. The cell is house in a small enclosure with a small incandescent lamp. The lamp is stabilized by an LM78xx series linear fixed positive voltage regulator. The lamp and regulator both give off heat and this tends to thermally stabilize the temperature in the housing. This assembly is the sensor part of the time probe. After a period of aging the recombination time is fairly stable. The system is intended for use under "grond based benign" conditions, ie, near room temperature at STP. In the same housing is one part of a semiconductor recombination time measurement circuit. The whole of this circuit is basically a fast electronic switch which shorts the cell and the recombination time is measured as the time from closing the switch until the time of recombination is complete to some percentage, nominally 90%. The housing contains only the switch and pre amplifier acqusition portion of the whole. The "clock", or square wave trigger which initiates the recombination measurement is not in the small probe housing. Remote to the probe housing at the end of ten feet of shielded cable is the remainder of the system. In this box are a regulated power source at least two volts above the drop out of the lamp regulator, or approximately 3.6 volts higher; a moderately stable square wave oscillator and buffer and a phase comparator. In operation the buffered square wave trigger signal is conveyed to the small probe via shielded cable. Also conveyed to probe is regulated DC to drive lamp circuit and separately regulated DC to power recombination time circuit. The result of the recombination measure is applied to a buffer and sent back to the main unit. A adjustable phase delay is added to the clock so that the phase relationship of the clock and the delay caused by the recombination time are at some known nominal value of, say, 45 degrees. Provided temperature of the probe is stable the phase relationship is also stable. If anyone could come up with a way to locally "warp" time then the probe should indicate this provided the warp is local to the probe only. Two of these have been built. The first, to the knowledge of this writer, has never been run. The device was recieved by the requestor and the fee for construction was paid. The second of these was somewhat improved. It has not been run, to the knowledge of the author, the fee for construction was not paid, nor was the device returned. It is the opinion of the author the recipient of the second device a) does not understand it and b) chooses not to admit this. These work quite nicely and the efficay has been tested by artificially altering the recombination time by changing the temperature of the probe cell. This same type of thing could be based on nearly any known stable event. The recombination time was chosen because it is reliable and not too costly as compared with atomic clocks. Anon -> Posted by: "LadyNada" From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 14:58:18 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA02137 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:58:13 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA02122 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:58:09 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id OAA05604; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:58:07 -0700 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 14:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: pressure powered clocks In-Reply-To: <199510052253.RAA07042@matrix.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Scott Little wrote: > My mother has an "ATMOS" clock which runs on atmospheric pressure changes. > It has only a modest looking barometer-type corrugated diaphragm. It has > been running continuously for years and years without being touched. It is > fairly small....like a 7" cube. Wow! 'Real' free energy. Any idea where to find such a thing nowdays? I bet they would sell big through the Tesla Society crowd. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 14 22:27:05 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA23972 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 22:26:44 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA23956; Sat, 14 Oct 1995 22:26:39 -0700 Received: from net-1-210.austin.eden.com (net-1-210.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.210]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id AAA03189; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 00:26:01 -0500 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 00:26:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199510150526.AAA03189@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: pressure powered clocks X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 02:58 PM 10/14/95, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: >Wow! 'Real' free energy. Any idea where to find such a thing nowdays? >I bet they would sell big through the Tesla Society crowd. The ATMOS brand clock may still be in production. It's not all that old. At any rate I'll bet that a real clock shop would know. It'd be fun to calculate the output of a big unit. I wonder where one could get the RMS value of the barometric pressure variation? From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 17:40:41 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA15213 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:40:37 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA15127 for ; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:40:12 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id RAA18432; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:40:07 -0700 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:40:05 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: H2, O2 recombiner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 13 Oct 1995, Craig Nelson wrote: > Can anyone give me any practical tips on an H2 O2 recombiner? > My temptation is to just get a bit of platinum wire and keep it in the gas > mix. > Do I need a platinum sponge? What sort of volume of gas mix will a small bit > of wire handle? Will it oscillate? By this I mean will it wait for > sufficient gas build up, then explode it all, then wait again, or is it a slow > sort of water forms on the wire process? Not from experience, but from a book: Junior Science Projects, by ARCO press. They have a Fuel Cell project. Their catalyst is a nickel screen coated with platinum-black. Their instructions: clean the nickel well, scrub it with solvent and dry, then dip it in a 5% solution of platinum chloride until it builds up a black coating. Apparently it will catalyze continuously, not by repeated burnings. The "black" coating is a fractal network on the molecular scale and has immense surface area, and is delicate like soot. The 'sponge' recombiners mentioned in CF articles must be something similar. I'd be EXTREMELY CAREFUL when messing with sealed cells. A sealed cell with an internal gas source has another name: pipe bomb. Wasn't the guy at EPRI killed when the vent to his CF cell became plugged? The cell was stainless steel, about 1/2" thick. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 15 22:25:42 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA13424 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:24:44 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA13385; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:24:34 -0700 Received: from net-1-150.austin.eden.com (net-1-150.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.150]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id AAA01378; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:24:30 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:24:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199510160524.AAA01378@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: H2, O2 recombiner X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:40 PM 10/15/95, BillB wrote: >Not from experience, but from a book: Junior Science Projects, by ARCO >press. They have a Fuel Cell project. Their catalyst is a nickel screen >coated with platinum-black. Their instructions: clean the nickel well, >scrub it with solvent and dry, then dip it in a 5% solution of platinum >chloride until it builds up a black coating. Apparently it will catalyze >continuously, not by repeated burnings. The "black" coating is a fractal >network on the molecular scale and has immense surface area, and is >delicate like soot. The 'sponge' recombiners mentioned in CF articles >must be something similar. Thanks, Bill I might just try that here pretty soon. I have worked with factory-made black clothlike recombiners. You put them up in the top of the cell above the liquid and they just work steadily and silently dripping water back into the cell. Of course, the process liberates heat. A good thing to do it to _not_ actually seal the cell but provide a tube the leads to a jar filled with oil. If the recombiner is working nothing will come out of the tube. If it is not working or stops working, the tube will blow bubbles in the oil...and the cell won't explode. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 04:47:51 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA00898 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:47:20 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA00887 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:47:16 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id EAA13306; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:47:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 04:47:15 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Response from Mark Hendershot Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Forwarded Message ----------------- >From August 30, 1995: > >... That's about it for now, if anyone knows Mark Hendershott, perhaps they >can get the straight story from him, I hate rumors that tease us into >thinking something is about to break, when nothing new has occurred in >a given area.............>>> Jerry/KeelyNet/Dallas > > > The message above made it to Mark Hendershot today, and he replies to it here, very promptly: ================================================== In regard to Keelynet (Jerry Decker) message of 7/31/95: Yes, Mark M. Hendershot (not Hendershott as a lot of people seem to spell my name) is alive and well in Washington State. As for the International Tesla Society Symposium in July 1995, I did not go and told Steve at ITS in advance of the show. The reason being that the model of my Father's "Hendershot Generator" was not putting out the voltage that my Dad's did and I did not want to be ridiculed as others have been at the ITS shows. At present mine is only producing 1.5 to 3 volts and still needs more work. I'm rewinding the coils again into a pattern that may correct the problem with the low voltage. I have gotten up to 150 volts AC when the unit was placed within 150' or so of high tension lines. I told Steve that due to the problems my Dad had from the public not believing him. I wasn't going to give a substandard showing of the generator. I have seen my Father's generator work many times and made it work myself. Steve told me that if I didn't show everybody will call me a fraud, but I really don't care because our family has heard that many times before. I've been working on my model for less than one year and feel I have got some good results. Steve said if I didn't show I wouldn't get another chance. Since then, I have been in contact with Laura Lee and have agreed that when I am ready I will announce my success via her radio program. I'm coming in to a lot more information on the generator and will keep working until my model works as well as my Father's did. All this takes time and money but I'm willing to wait, it seems the rest of the world are the ones who are in such a hurry! Mark M. Hendershot 16541 Redmond Way #160 Redmond, WA 98052-4463 FAX: (206) 788-5486 From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 05:25:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id FAA05831 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 05:25:35 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA05822 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 05:25:32 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id FAA15178; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 05:25:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 05:25:31 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Response from Mark Hendershot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, William Beaty wrote: > The message above made it to Mark Hendershot today, and he replies > to it here, very promptly: > > ================================================== > > In regard to Keelynet (Jerry Decker) message of 7/31/95: Yes, Mark M. > Hendershot (not Hendershott as a lot of people seem to spell my name) > is alive and well in Washington State. Is Mark Hendershot on email? I wonder if he'd be interested in occasionally conversing with other experimenters WHILE he's developing his device, rather than working in semi-secret up until he's sucessful. Might he want help in getting set up with a cheap internet account? .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 07:17:36 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA26359 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 07:17:05 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA26284 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 07:16:49 -0700 Received: from net-1-163.austin.eden.com (net-1-163.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.163]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id JAA01114 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:16:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:16:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199510161416.JAA01114@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: Response from Mark Hendershot X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A At 04:47 AM 10/16/95, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: >I have gotten up to 150 volts AC >when the unit was placed within 150' or so of high tension lines. Is the Hendershot device just an antenna for 60Hz radio waves? Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 11:36:25 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA27491 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:35:43 -0700 Received: from big.aa.net (root@big.aa.net [204.157.220.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA06191 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:06:07 -0700 Received: from s3c2p6.aa.net (s3c2p6.aa.net [204.157.220.154]) by big.aa.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA27644 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:05:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:05:42 -0700 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199510161705.KAA27644@big.aa.net> X-Sender: mwm@aa.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: mwm@aa.net (Michael Mandeville) Subject: Re: Response from Mark Hendershot Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, William Beaty wrote: > >> The message above made it to Mark Hendershot today, and he replies >> to it here, very promptly: >> >> ================================================== >> >> In regard to Keelynet (Jerry Decker) message of 7/31/95: Yes, Mark M. >> Hendershot (not Hendershott as a lot of people seem to spell my name) >> is alive and well in Washington State. > > >Is Mark Hendershot on email? I wonder if he'd be interested in >occasionally conversing with other experimenters WHILE he's developing his >device, rather than working in semi-secret up until he's sucessful. >Might he want help in getting set up with a cheap internet account? > >.....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. >William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 >EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ >Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page > > an astutely good question there Bill, let's get him setup. I know he has access to an internet capable Mac. He just needs to learn how to use it. Gary and I will teach him if somebody can walk him through getting an account setup at eskimo. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 11:36:12 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA27347 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:34:45 -0700 Received: from igate.3do.COM (igate.3do.com [198.211.30.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07696 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:11:46 -0700 Received: from badger.3do.com (badger.3do.com [198.211.30.7]) by igate.3do.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA20018 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:04:52 -0700 Received: from 3do.com (qm) by badger.3do.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19471; Mon, 16 Oct 95 10:09:31 PDT Message-Id: Date: 16 Oct 1995 10:02:47 -0800 From: "Craig Nelson" Subject: Re: H2, O2 recombiner To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 15 Oct 1995, William Beatty wrote: > Not from experience, but from a book: Junior Science Projects, by ARCO > press. They have a Fuel Cell project. Their catalyst is a nickel screen > coated with platinum-black. Their instructions: clean the nickel well, > scrub it with solvent and dry, then dip it in a 5% solution of platinum > chloride until it builds up a black coating. Apparently it will catalyze > continuously, not by repeated burnings. The "black" coating is a fractal > network on the molecular scale and has immense surface area, and is > delicate like soot. The 'sponge' recombiners mentioned in CF articles > must be something similar. Thanks, it reminded me I already have something like this from a fuel cell project I did 20+ years ago. Now can I find it? > I'd be EXTREMELY CAREFUL when messing with sealed cells. A sealed cell > with an internal gas source has another name: pipe bomb. Wasn't the guy > at EPRI killed when the vent to his CF cell became plugged? The cell was > stainless steel, about 1/2" thick. Understood. The H2 generator I built for that 20 year old fuel cell once exploded. No damage, but there was a big whoomp, and a lot of water sprayed around. I was lucky then, I don't intend to leave it to luck this time. craig.nelson@3do.com From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 14:13:51 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA06778 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:12:04 -0700 Received: from igate.3do.COM (igate.3do.com [198.211.30.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA05967 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:08:22 -0700 Received: from badger.3do.com (badger.3do.com [198.211.30.7]) by igate.3do.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA21924 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:00:21 -0700 Received: from 3do.com (qm) by badger.3do.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02738; Mon, 16 Oct 95 14:04:59 PDT Message-Id: Date: 16 Oct 1995 14:02:32 -0800 From: "Craig Nelson" Subject: Re: Meyer Style Electrolysi To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Oct. 14, 1995 Scott Little wrote: >But >at high voltage (low current) there would seem to be insufficient quantity of >electrons. >Huh? This doesn't make sense to me. If you put a higher voltage across the >electrodes the current will be higher...not lower. The cell behaves >essentially like a resistor. and Gary Hawkins replied: >The water is supposed to be distilled I believe (an insulator). My turn again: Yes, this is the interesting part. Distilled water is preferred. Meyer goes out of his way in his patents to keep any current from flowing. The patents detail several methods to prevent current flow. (of course the patents also make some bizarre perpetual motion claims, so who knows) He seems to use high frequency high voltage kept just below the arc over point. Obviously if NO current flows we are talking major free energy here. I prefer to believe the POWER needed to generate a mole of gas is a constant (ignoring heating) and he uses high voltage low current rather than low voltage high current to get that mole. The question I ponder is: How do a few high energy electrons (high voltage low current) create a resulting amount of gas that clearly has had many electrons added to it? If there were a transformer and a conductive electrolyte, the answer would be easy. Lacking these, I trust I'll eventually learn the mechanism. Thanks for your feedback. craig.nelson@3do.com From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 19:47:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA28055 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:47:23 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA27878 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:46:38 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id TAA11676; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:46:04 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 19:46:03 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Response from Mark Hendershot In-Reply-To: <199510161416.JAA01114@matrix.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, Scott Little wrote: > At 04:47 AM 10/16/95, freenrg-list@eskimo.com wrote: > > >I have gotten up to 150 volts AC > >when the unit was placed within 150' or so of high tension lines. > > Is the Hendershot device just an antenna for 60Hz radio waves? It's an electrical o/u device from the 1940s(?) It's a self-acting oscillator which is claimed to light a bank of light bulbs. The main section is a pair of interlinked LC circuits, basket-weave coils wound around cylindrical foil capacitors, connected together via some small power transformers and electrolytic capacitors, with a PM and vibrating reed for nonlinearity (freq and volt regulation.) It had a reputation for being very finiky, and the inventor sometimes had to mess with it for hours before it would spontaneouly break into oscillation and light its bulbs. It had a reputation for explosions of its capacitors (applying a couple hundred volts AC to a DC electrolytic), which is wonderful news. An unpowered stand-alone device which puts out hundreds of watts, and can boil the inside of electrolytics! I'm not very familiar with it's history, but I think Hendershot was paid to keep his device off the market for several decades. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 16 22:28:36 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA07187 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 22:28:31 -0700 Received: from utdallas.edu (root@utdallas.edu [129.110.10.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA07105 for ; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 22:28:11 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by utdallas.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id AAA22950; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 00:28:04 -0500 Received: from infoserv.utdallas.edu by utdallas.edu (Brelay v6.01) with BLIMP; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 00:28:04 CDT Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 00:27:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Chuck Knight To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com cc: craig.nelson@3do.com Subject: Re: Meyer Style Electrolysi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: According to the information I have collected from KeelyNet (and various sources) Meyer's cell works on a simple principle...the water molecule itself has "magnetic poles" which can be attracted by an electromagnetic field...by pulsing this field a "harmonic stress" can be created which will rip the molecule apart. One thing I'm not sure of is the frequency, though... Jerry Decker suggested using Keely's work as a starting point...42,800cps being the aetheric dissociation frequency, at which water is converted to aetheric force. Keely mentioned other frequencies for molecular and atomic dissociation...which would be good starting points. -- Chuck Knight On 16 Oct 1995, Craig Nelson wrote: > On Oct. 14, 1995 Scott Little wrote: > Yes, this is the interesting part. Distilled water is preferred. Meyer goes > out of his way in his patents to keep any current from flowing. The patents > detail several methods to prevent current flow. (of course the patents also > make some bizarre perpetual motion claims, so who knows) He seems to use high > frequency high voltage kept just below the arc over point. > > Obviously if NO current flows we are talking major free energy here. I prefer > to believe the POWER needed to generate a mole of gas is a constant (ignoring > heating) and he uses high voltage low current rather than low voltage high > current to get that mole. > > The question I ponder is: How do a few high energy electrons (high voltage > low current) create a resulting amount of gas that clearly has had many > electrons added to it? > > If there were a transformer and a conductive electrolyte, the answer would be > easy. Lacking these, I trust I'll eventually learn the mechanism. > > Thanks for your feedback. craig.nelson@3do.com > > ^ From 100060.173@compuserve.com Tue Oct 17 04:04:20 1995 Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com (arl-img-3.compuserve.com [198.4.7.3]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA25952 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 04:04:19 -0700 Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id HAA15977; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 07:03:02 -0400 Date: 17 Oct 95 07:01:41 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173@compuserve.com> To: William Beaty Subject: Re: The Meyer process Message-ID: <951017110141_100060.173_JHB103-1@CompuServe.COM> Status: RO X-Status: >> Norm, mind if I forward your 'Meyer' message to freengr-list? It's the type of info of which everyone should be aware. << By all means - I have no objection. You can include Chris's extra bit about the DTI warning companies off Meyer as well. Norman. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 17 13:08:49 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA20999 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 13:06:43 -0700 Received: from oroboros.demon.co.uk (oroboros.demon.co.uk [158.152.100.96]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA20732 for ; Tue, 17 Oct 1995 13:05:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 18:24:43 GMT From: CRSM@oroboros.demon.co.uk (Chris Morriss) Message-Id: <9801@oroboros.demon.co.uk> To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Response from Mark Hendershot X-Mailer: PCElm 1.10 Lines: 20 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Having seen the SUPPOSED circuit of the Hendershot generator, the only part of it that would appear unusual (apart from the old magnetron magnet) are the two basket weave coils wound around the outside of a home- constructed wound capacitor. The basket weave coils would have (I guess) lower self-capacitance than a plain wound coil of the same inductance. Therefore they would have a higher self-resonant frequency. The interesting question is: Does the magnetic field caused by the coil have any strange interaction with the electric field in the dielectric of the capacitor. Because of the way the coil is wound around the capacitor, there will be a considerable magnetic field set up in the dielectric. I've recently wound a double (bifilar) coil around a large 20uF polypropalene capacitor to see if any voltage can be detected across the cap. I wound the coils bifilar so that they can be connected as a conventional series coil, or as a 'bucking' coil with little or no conventional magnetic field. I'll keep everyone informed if I find anything. (No idea what amplitude and frequency to try though). -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 18 23:33:15 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA21856 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 23:31:37 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA21849 for ; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 23:31:33 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id XAA13530; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 23:31:33 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 23:31:32 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: The Meyer process (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 15 Oct 95 12:06:00 EDT From: Norman Horwood <100060.173@compuserve.com> To: vortex-l group Subject: The Meyer process You may be interested to hear of the latest progress of Stan Meyer's high voltage discharge electrolysis process. As some of you may know, there was a project in Eire to produce a small furnace using his system. I have been keeping a close eye on that, and the last I reported was that the Irish Engineers had obtained detailed design drawings from Meyer, and that they had assembled their components and sent them off to the States for SM to incorporate his secret bits, test it and return the whole thing in full working order. You've guessed it - they never saw hide nor hair of their L250,000 baby again, and they are slightly cross!! I won't bore you with the details of the "yes I did - no I didn't" cross-talk over the ocean, but it seems to have followed the well-worn path of many of our ou experiments. The inventor gets annoyed with the potential developers and they fall out of bed when the cash seems to have run out. The latest story is that SM has convinced a major producer of railway engines to fund a 3000 HP Diesel loco to run on H2O using SM's technology. Also, a well known drinks and candy manufacturer in the UK is about to spend its hard- earned cash on a trial. I can think of a better type of trial for certain types of con men! Norman. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 01:57:07 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA11958 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 01:57:05 -0700 Received: from big.aa.net (root@big.aa.net [204.157.220.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA11944 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 01:56:58 -0700 Received: from s1c0p1.aa.net (s3c1p5.aa.net [204.157.220.145]) by big.aa.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA04286 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 01:56:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 01:56:54 -0700 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199510190856.BAA04286@big.aa.net> X-Sender: mwm@aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: mwm@aa.net (Michael Mandeville) Subject: Re: The Meyer process (fwd) Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hate to quote so much but it is directly relevent: >Date: 15 Oct 95 12:06:00 EDT >From: Norman Horwood <100060.173@compuserve.com> >To: vortex-l group >Subject: The Meyer process > >You may be interested to hear of the latest progress of Stan Meyer's high >voltage discharge electrolysis process. > >As some of you may know, there was a project in Eire to produce a small >furnace using his system. I have been keeping a close eye on that, and the >last I reported was that the Irish Engineers had obtained detailed design >drawings from Meyer, and that they had assembled their components and sent >them off to the States for SM to incorporate his secret bits, test it and >return the whole thing in full working order. > >You've guessed it - they never saw hide nor hair of their L250,000 baby again, >and they are slightly cross!! I won't bore you with the details of the "yes I >did - no I didn't" cross-talk over the ocean, but it seems to have followed >the well-worn path of many of our ou experiments. The inventor gets annoyed >with the potential developers and they fall out of bed when the cash seems to >have run out. > >The latest story is that SM has convinced a major producer of railway engines >to fund a 3000 HP Diesel loco to run on H2O using SM's technology. Also, a >well known drinks and candy manufacturer in the UK is about to spend its hard- >earned cash on a trial. I can think of a better type of trial for certain >types of con men! >Norman. > > > About five years ago I did an extensive due diligence on Meyer and some other inventors for a client. It was paid work so I did not do it hastily. I developed a thick file of his patents, news stories, his own published materials, and lots of notes over a period of several months. Bottom line, it does not appear that Meyer has ever fulfilled a development contract since the late 70's in anything closely resembling terms, conditions, prices, times, and fabrication. He has had at least two different sets of investors hopping mad at him. In short, there does not appear to be anything in common between what Meyer says he can do and what he does in fact do. Insofar as his patents go, there really is nothing there of any signifance. All of the basic ideas are borrowed liberally from other theorists and engineers. The concepts are all obvious. Perhaps he could enforce a claim against a specific design, but it would not take much to get around it. Given these conditions, why on earth would anyone deal with the man? Perhaps his performance has improved during the past four years, because I have not followed him since then. I assumed he would slowly fade away...but it may be that he simply keeps finding new, ah, ground, shall we say politely. I would be astonished to find a more positive indication. Can anyone provide it? ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 02:15:08 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA10894 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:17:13 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA10816 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:16:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199510201816.LAA10816@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 11:24:03 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Response from Mark Hendershot Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:24 PM 10/17/95 GMT, you wrote: ... >I've recently wound a double (bifilar) coil around a large 20uF >polypropalene capacitor to see if any voltage can be detected across >the cap. ... >-- >Chris Morriss > > Cap and coil in series for a tank circuit I presume, right? That's the way it is in the Hendershot schematic. Mark Hendershot has put together a book for $59 where he is publishing some new material others have not seen. You could order a copy from, well, from yours truly, at: Horizon Technology 2442 NW Market St #274 Seattle, WA 98107 It's only something like 40 single sided pages, but if someone were really wanting to tackle the issue it would make sense to have every clue in their collection of info. Gary __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 02:35:43 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA02799 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:38:17 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02724 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:38:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199510201938.MAA02724@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 12:45:45 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: The Meyer process (fwd) Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:31 PM 10/18/95 -0700, you wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: 15 Oct 95 12:06:00 EDT >From: Norman Horwood <100060.173@compuserve.com> >To: vortex-l group >Subject: The Meyer process > >You may be interested to hear of the latest progress of Stan Meyer's high >voltage discharge electrolysis process. > ... > >You've guessed it - they never saw hide nor hair of their L250,000 baby again, > ... >well known drinks and candy manufacturer in the UK is about to spend its hard- >earned cash on a trial. I can think of a better type of trial for certain >types of con men! >Norman. > > Dennis Lee is another con man, and they abound in this arena. I often wonder if there are not indeed evil spiritual forces who set out to spearhead these areas and direct them to ruin. I could see some power brokers getting together and saying "Hey boys, we've got a problem. Heat pump technology is coming along and has the potential to wipe out the need for fuel oil because it can extract the energy in air molecules supplied by the sun. Who can we find to head up a campaign in favor of it, and make sure everyone gets ripped off along the way." Gary __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 19:04:49 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00273 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 19:04:31 -0700 Received: from bos1a.delphi.com (bos1a.delphi.com [192.80.63.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA00265 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 19:04:27 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWN1R86PDK9BWAQV@delphi.com>; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 22:03:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 1995 22:03:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: The Meyer process (fwd) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWN1R86PDM9BWAQV@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" X-VMS-Cc: INTERNET"freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 19-OCT-1995 02:35:27.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >The latest story is that SM has convinced a major producer of >railway engines to fund a 3000 HP Diesel loco to run on H2O >using SM's technology. Also, a well known drinks and candy >manufacturer in the UK is about to spend its hard- earned >cash on a trial. I can think of a better type of trial for >certain types of con men! >Norman. The ideal, taking nothing from anyone does avoid all chances of anyone being hurt. That is, the inventor refusing all financial aid of any kind. It slows down the process, agreed. It may even cause the inventor to simply forget about it. Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;35;43mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 19 23:40:03 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA23325 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 23:40:00 -0700 Received: from bluestem.prairienet.org (root@bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA23307 for ; Thu, 19 Oct 1995 23:39:55 -0700 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (w9sz@firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by bluestem.prairienet.org (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id BAA12495 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:35:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from w9sz@localhost) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.7.1/8.7.1) id BAA05131; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:39:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 01:39:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199510200639.BAA05131@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, From what I've seen here so far, I gather that none of the subscribers to this group has ever built or seen a working "free energy" device (space energy receiver, as I like to call them)? Is this true? Or has anyone out there had some success with an over-unity device? What have you tried? What hasn't worked? What looks like it may work? I've been intrigued by the Bedini device and Jim Watson's version, the Brandt-Tesla Switch, the Kromrey generator, the Swiss M-L converter, and several others. I've started to build the Kromrey machine and the Brandt-Tesla switch, but I'm not done with them yet. Has anyone had any luck with these? I'm curious! Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 20 06:59:15 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA14176 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 06:28:49 -0700 Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net (magicnet.magicnet.net [204.96.116.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA14138 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 06:28:40 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id JAA24838 for magicnet.magicnet.net!eskimo.com!freenrg-list; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 09:22:00 -0400 Received: from cc:Mail by irout.advantor.com id AA814205576 Fri, 20 Oct 95 09:12:56 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 09:12:56 From: "reim" Encoding: 2047 Text Message-Id: <9509208142.AA814205576@irout.advantor.com> To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net Subject: Re: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello, I just joined this group and am not sure what the procedure is to talk about topics here. When I send this to you does everyone on the list also see it? When I ask a question about research who do I send it to or do I just send it to the group? In terms of research, I am doing some now on T.T. Browns work and could use any info from people who has done work in this field. As for your free energy question I have not done work in this field, I am interested in it, and I have read about others peoples work on the internet. As an electrical engineer I have to question some of the results I have read about. The main thing is the output power of a device is not the voltage times the current its the voltage times the current times the cosine of the angle between them. I have seen this mistake several times. Are these people doing some of this research engineers? however I know some engineers who have forgotten about taking the angle into account when making power calculations. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Devices? Author: magicnet.magicnet.net!eskimo.com!freenrg-list at ~Internet Date: 10/20/95 7:03 AM Hi, From what I've seen here so far, I gather that none of the subscribers to this group has ever built or seen a working "free energy" device (space energy receiver, as I like to call them)? Is this true? Or has anyone out there had some success with an over-unity device? What have you tried? What hasn't worked? What looks like it may work? I've been intrigued by the Bedini device and Jim Watson's version, the Brandt-Tesla Switch, the Kromrey generator, the Swiss M-L converter, and several others. I've started to build the Kromrey machine and the Brandt-Tesla switch, but I'm not done with them yet. Has anyone had any luck with these? I'm curious! Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 03:01:55 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA12070 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:01:51 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA12058 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 03:01:46 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7.1/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA07233 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 04:59:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id FAA27602; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 05:00:48 -0500 (CDT) From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Devices? Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 06:35:50 -0400 Message-ID: References: <199510200639.BAA05131@firefly.prairienet.org> In-Reply-To: <199510200639.BAA05131@firefly.prairienet.org> Lines: 26 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In article <199510200639.BAA05131@firefly.prairienet.org>, you wrote: > > >Hi, > From what I've seen here so far, I gather that none of the >subscribers to this group has ever built or seen a working "free energy" >device (space energy receiver, as I like to call them)? > Is this true? Or has anyone out there had some success with an >over-unity device? I've tried, I've never seen one (yet). > What have you tried? What hasn't worked? What looks like it may work? > I've been intrigued by the Bedini device and Jim Watson's >version, the Brandt-Tesla Switch, the Kromrey generator, the Swiss M-L >converter, and several others. I've started to build the Kromrey machine >and the Brandt-Tesla switch, but I'm not done with them yet. Has anyone >had any luck with these? I built the Brandt-Tesla switch, it did not work. And by the way the schematic in the Tesla Book Companies version is wrong. A corrected one appeared in the old Energy Unlimited magazine. I'm trying to get some thing built up now that works on displace From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 20 08:20:46 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA05779 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:20:43 -0700 Received: from ix9.ix.netcom.com (ix9.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.9]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA05756 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:20:36 -0700 Received: from ix-den11-12.ix.netcom.com by ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id IAA14867; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:19:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199510201519.IAA14867@ix9.ix.netcom.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Chuck Humphrey" Organization: Next Generation To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:47:07 -0200 Subject: Re: Devices? Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > Hi, > From what I've seen here so far, I gather that none of the > subscribers to this group has ever built or seen a working "free > energy" device (space energy receiver, as I like to call them)? > Is this true? Or has anyone out there had some success with an > over-unity device? > What have you tried? What hasn't worked? What looks like it may > work? I've been intrigued by the Bedini device and Jim Watson's > version, the Brandt-Tesla Switch, the Kromrey generator, the Swiss > M-L converter, and several others. I've started to build the Kromrey > machine and the Brandt-Tesla switch, but I'm not done with them yet. > Has anyone had any luck with these? > I'm curious! > I also have been trying to construct an o/u device. What I am most interested in is an o/u machine that can produce usable power. I am not very impressed with the claims of people like Don Smith and Jow newman who make their claims with calculated o/u and have not yet demonstrated anything that can even sustain its own enegery requirement. I have recently been investigating the Swiss M-L converter because of the reported claims of it's actual o/u existence. I don't know if it is real or not, but I have colleded a lot of reports from various people who claim to have seen it in operation and who have speculated on it''s operation. I have fabricated several electrostatic devices like a wimhurst and built several electroststic motors in trying understand more about what can be accomplished by high electrostatic charges. I have buit the TOMI device, several sizes and several forms.. I have also built several forms of circular TOMI's and have discovered an interesting phenomena that occurs with the magnets arranged in a circular pattern. I could be wrong in my conclusions here, but what appeared to happen in each of my circular configurations, was that during the construction I would add a stage of magnets one stage at a time, then place the runner on the track (or wheel in some versions), and give it a spin so to speak. When the devic contains only a few stages the runner would seam to move from one stage to the next and show signs of acutally working. As I added more stages the runner would continue to move around the path but would not sustain it's rotation. I thought that when I added the final stages it would then sustain it's rotation, but in each case it actually decreased it's speed and would not even self start. What appeared to happed is that when the magnets were arranged in a circular path, the magnetic field became balanced in some way as to neutralize the entire system.. I experienced this phenomena in several different configuration and concluded that the TOMI would not work in a closed loop. (Like I said I caould be wrong in this conclusion and would like someone to show me a design that will work and I will gladly change my position). I have also built several versions of Don Smiths modified telsa convertor... I don't know that he has a name for it, but When I eventually pressed him for some details he admistted he had never applied the output and therefore I concluded he never attained any practical o/u that could be converted to work. I also explored the John Searl stuff but was very dissapointed to learn that I could not build a test case for his theory. In fact the closer I got tohis material the more frustrated I became because of all the missing parts and the demand for expensive publications which claimed to offer his secrets, but to my knowledge offered nothing that would help to acually build a device like his "pirme- mover" I also constructed a Newman motor, but did not obtain the results he claimed. The device did not produce enough work to operate itself. (my definition of o/u).. I also worked with Bafe magnets to try to reproduce the MRA devices and could not see how I was going to get practical o/u from it... I looked at the floyd sweet stuff but agian there are so many missing pieces and nobody I have contacted as yet has actually witnessed the device in operation, so I don't know enough about it to start any projects. So that takes me back to the Swiss M-L converter.. This seems to be the only device that has been working to power itself and have been duplicated at least by the inventors in several forms. I don't yet know what the source of the power might be there, whether the energy comes from the electrostatic charge or whether the charge is used to somehow condition other devices to pull energy from some exotic ZPE convertor.. I have been told that BaFe magnets have some kind of property to tap the ZPE stuff, but I have not been able to observe it much less convert it to anything practical. This brings me to another point. I spoke with Don Kelly of the SEA yesterday and he got very irritable at me for asking for some clarification on why he felt the gap in the magnets were the key. I am not an engineer and I don't understand a lot of this stuff, but I felt that I was entitled to an explaination of principle if someone makes a claim of it's fact. Anyway, I am back to square one right now. I still feel like what Jerry Decker told me a few weeks ago, and that where there is smoke there must be fire somewhere. SO I will continue to sniff hoping that someday I will find something real.. If you learn anything I would like to know about it. Chuck So here I am... Still trying to *-------------------------------------------------------------* * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * 5023 W 120th Ave #109 * * Broomfield, CO 80020 (303) 754-2927 * * next-gen@ix.netcom.com * * Web site: * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 02:28:53 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA23630 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:03:58 -0700 Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net (magicnet.magicnet.net [204.96.116.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA23597 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:03:50 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id OAA05217 for magicnet.magicnet.net!eskimo.com!freenrg-list; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 14:52:03 -0400 Received: from cc:Mail by irout.advantor.com id AA814225487 Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:44:47 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:44:47 From: "reim" Encoding: 1091 Text Message-Id: <9509208142.AA814225487@irout.advantor.com> To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net Subject: Re[2]: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I designed and built a 90 KV variable pulse rate power supply. I am currently trying to make a barium titinate capacitor to see if I can duplicate some of Brown's work. I have gotten some good information over the net from many people who has done work in this field and one person who was a friend of the family of Brown's. Also this person would like to find out if any one knows where he can get in contact with Brown wife or daughter since he hasn't talked to them in a long time. This person said that his father was the one who drew up many of brown drawings. He said that he has seen several of his inventions since Brown would bring them over to his house. One thing I thought was of interest was he said that Brown believed that he was in contact with ET's in his dreams and that many of his patents were ideas that ET's told him in his dreams. I talked to this person over the phone for quite a while and he seemed sincere. Has anyone else ever heard of this? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 20 08:56:44 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA04686 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:56:04 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA04644 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 08:55:53 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA03663 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:40:11 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510201540.LAA03663@escape.com> Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 11:40:11 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9509208142.AA814205576@irout.advantor.com> from "reim" at Oct 20, 95 09:12:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 725 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > Hello, > I just joined this group and am not sure what the procedure is to talk > about topics here. When I send this to you does everyone on the list > also see it? When I ask a question about research who do I send it to > or do I just send it to the group? In terms of research, I am doing > some now on T.T. Browns work and could use any info from people who Your message ends up in the mailbox of every subscriber to the list! We all just send our mail to the group address, and it distributes it about. What sort of work are you doing on TT Brown, and how much info do you already have? I have some acquaintance with the field. _______________ Free your chi. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 02:23:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA04866 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:56:12 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA04804 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 10:55:58 -0700 Received: from net-1-109.austin.eden.com (net-1-125.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.125]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id MAA27303 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:55:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 12:55:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199510201755.MAA27303@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Devices or smoke X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A At 08:47 AM 10/20/95 -0200, Chuck wrote: >Anyway, I am back to square one right now. I still feel like what >Jerry Decker told me a few weeks ago, and that where there is smoke >there must be fire somewhere. This could be simply wrong. Folks have been chasing free energy ever since man invented the wheel...and maybe even before that (with waterfalls, etc.). The smoke comes from man's imagination and, in the end, could turn out to be just that....smoke! Another source of smoke is measurement errors. A significant fraction of the reported o-u devices out there are not o-u...the inventor just thinks they are. Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 02:37:48 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA05490 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 19:03:05 -0700 Received: from bos1f.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1f.delphi.com [192.80.63.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA05467 for ; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 19:02:56 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWOG22769S9ANRNE@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Fri, 20 Oct 1995 22:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 22:02:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWOG227FXE9ANRNE@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 20-OCT-1995 11:22:45.2 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >I have buit the TOMI device, several sizes and several >forms.. I have also built several forms of circular TOMI's >and have discovered an interesting phenomena that occurs with >the magnets arranged in a circular pattern. I think you are making the same mistake most have made. You wish to make the track 'hot' instead of the 'vehicle.' Most people I have read on this subject seem to be hooked on the circular flat track, or even in straight linear tracks. I stated a long time ago when I put out the basic TOMI concept and demo that I had created a circular track and in 200 attempts at circumnavigation, I had succeeded twice. It was most a construction problem. But from a strict common-sense viewpoint, to make the circular track itself the drive or motor is much the same as stringing wires for the old trolley cars. The answers was simply to make the trolley car with a built-in motor. Let us go with a simple fact. My TOMI, now 20 years old, still the same magnets I bought 20 years ago, has never failed to lift the runner in the same predictable manner all during that period of time. I also had other demos which suspended a mass, the least being suspended for 10 years. So a conclusion can be made, despite your suspicions, that every time a runner is introduced into the track, it will lift the runner in the same predicatble manner for a very long time. After 20 years it is still lifting the same runner to the same heights. Then may I suggest that you turn your thinking toward implementing a version of CM (continuous motion) which uses only a single incline. Cheaper, fewer magnets, less construction. What you have to work with is a method to get a mass to a height. I have spoken to many engineers and they all state that once you have a mass to a height, is pure engineering to put that mass to work! So the only problem would seem to be to get the mass back to the base of the incline after it accomplishes some work, moves something, whatever. (In the beginning, it would seem sufficient to simply demonstrate CM.) B / / | / | / | / | A / | D ------------ C Follow: When you inserted the runner into the system at A, has it ever failed to rise to B and then descend? My own personal experience of 20 years: NO! In the process of moving from B to C, I doubt there is any question that some work can be accomplished. After all, this is the simple concept of a piledriver. All you have to do is figure out how to get the mass from C to D, back into the system of the single track, and Voila! You have CM! What is so difficult about that? PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;30;40mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 09:33:34 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA18988 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 09:33:08 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA18966 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 09:33:02 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA04497 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:17:14 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510211617.MAA04497@escape.com> Subject: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:17:13 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9509208142.AA814225487@irout.advantor.com> from "reim" at Oct 20, 95 02:44:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 357 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Have you run your gravitators in vacuum, to test the ion wind hypothesis? According to the ion wind hypothesis, the Biefeld-Brown effect should diminish in a vacuum; according to rumor, it increases. This is an important experiment to perform. As far as Brown's belief in the design guidance by ETs, this is a rumor that I have never heard. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 10:17:52 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA21297 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 09:44:11 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA21275 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 09:44:02 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA05424 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:28:11 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510211628.MAA05424@escape.com> Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:28:11 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01HWOG227FXE9ANRNE@delphi.com> from "Pat Harris" at Oct 20, 95 10:02:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1029 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I think perhaps my mailer swallowed a piece of mail of mine, because no one responded when I wrote a fairly lengthy post (for me) detailing a simple way to test Pat Harris' device for energy conservation. Those readers who have constructed ramps might therefore try the following scheme: enclose Pat Harris' ramps in 2 larger ramps thusly: \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \_______/\/\______/ Those two lumps in the middle are Harris' ramps. Let the runner start from way high and FAR AWAY from the magnetic fields of Harris' ramps. See how high the runner makes it up the second ramp. Conventional physics predicts the runner will not rise any higher than the height at which it was released. Let's cut to the chase and see if there's anything interesting about this arrangement of magnets before getting lost in attempting to apply this "effect" for generators and such. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 11:59:34 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA14094 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 11:38:28 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14011 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 11:38:11 -0700 Received: from net-1-118.austin.eden.com (net-1-118.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.118]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id NAA12356 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:37:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:37:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199510211837.NAA12356@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: TOMI test X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:02 PM 10/20/95, Pat Harris wrote: > B > / > / | > / | > / | > / | > A / | > D ------------ C > >All you have to do is figure out how to get the mass from C to D, >back into the system of the single track, and Voila! You have >CM! > >What is so difficult about that? Perhaps we shall see, Pat. Thank you for reducing the question to a very simple form. Despite my inclinations, I will endeavor to study this problem soon...because my "inclinations" just might be wrong. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 11:45:13 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA15368 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 11:45:06 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA15321 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 11:44:55 -0700 Received: from net-1-118.austin.eden.com (net-1-118.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.118]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id NAA12780 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:44:48 -0500 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:44:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199510211844.NAA12780@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: Devices? X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:28 PM 10/21/95, Charles Hope wrote: > > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \_______/\/\______/ > >Let's cut to the chase and see if there's anything interesting about this >arrangement of magnets before getting lost in attempting to apply this >"effect" for generators and such. My sentiments exactly, Charles. I'm not sure this is the easiest way to PROVE it one way or the other because there is quite a bit of friction in such a setup. Imagine trying it without the humps...the typical roller would lose inches of height on each cycle. I'm thinking about more of a static test....or something where I integrate Fdx required to place the roller at the bottom of the ramp and compare it to the height to which the ramp will propel the roller...i.e. mgh. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 12:50:37 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA29395 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:50:31 -0700 Received: from bos1d.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1d.delphi.com [192.80.63.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA29357 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:50:22 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWPGCRIBXC99FDPI@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 15:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 15:22:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWPGCRIBXE99FDPI@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 21-OCT-1995 13:18:46.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >I think perhaps my mailer swallowed a piece of mail of mine, >because no one responded when I wrote a fairly lengthy post >(for me) detailing a simple way to test Pat Harris' device >for energy conservation. Your reader must have swallowed my reply to your first message. >Those readers who have constructed ramps might therefore try the >following scheme: enclose Pat Harris' ramps in 2 larger ramps thusly: >\ / >\ / >\ / >\ / >\ / >\_______/\/\______/ >Those two lumps in the middle are Harris' ramps. >Let the runner start from way high and FAR AWAY from the >magnetic fields of Harris' ramps. See how high the runner >makes it up the second ramp. In my reply, I asked why you would do this? You would have to use some other mechanism to get the runner to the 'way high and FAR AWAY from the magnetic fields." In this case you would be injecting a tremendous amount of energy into the system from the PE of the runner very high! Why not deal with what exists. You are adding and changing the entire concept. If you are seeking CM, a single ranp is sufficient, and it does not need your 'push' from on high and far away. Why require what has already been eliminated. Sounds like a typical 'make-work bureaucratic' approach. >Conventional physics predicts the runner will not rise any >higher than the height at which it was released. Conventional physics says the runner will not rise higher that the height at which it was released? /\ /\ / \ / \ / \ / \ ________o / \/ \ Then conventional physics would predict, that since the mass is released from ground zero, so to speak, it should not rise higher than ground zero. You have to get over the reality that that is no longer true first. I cannot comprehend how you can say what you say and ignore the above. Or are you aware of what is happening? And I think this is a search for free energy or o-u for the moment. No one has spoken about generators yet, although they are not far away. >Let's cut to the chase and see if there's anything >interesting about this arrangement of magnets before getting >lost in attempting to apply this "effect" for generators and >such. Charles, Interesting to whom? I was here to offer information. I will stop that if you do not find it intersting. I think I shall stop anyway. You are convinced this is not worth anything, which suits me just fine. Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;36;41mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 12:55:58 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA00716 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:55:56 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA00704 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:55:51 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA25191 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 15:40:02 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510211940.PAA25191@escape.com> Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 15:40:00 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510211844.NAA12780@matrix.eden.com> from "Scott Little" at Oct 21, 95 01:44:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1606 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > At 12:28 PM 10/21/95, Charles Hope wrote: > > > > > \ / > > \ / > > \ / > > \ / > > \ / > > \_______/\/\______/ > > > >Let's cut to the chase and see if there's anything interesting about this > >arrangement of magnets before getting lost in attempting to apply this > >"effect" for generators and such. > > My sentiments exactly, Charles. I'm not sure this is the easiest way to > PROVE it one way or the other because there is quite a bit of friction in > such a setup. Imagine trying it without the humps...the typical roller > would lose inches of height on each cycle. I'm thinking about more of a > static test....or something where I integrate Fdx required to place the > roller at the bottom of the ramp and compare it to the height to which the > ramp will propel the roller...i.e. mgh. I'd rather do a dynamic test because I can't think of a clean way to measure the field and work done by the field as the runner is being placed at the starting location, since the runner can't be considered a point, and the field can't be considered constant. I'm looking at extremely messy integrals. Also, if this is somehow an anomaly, such calculations may not help us. At least here we really don't have any calculations, just a height measurement. If the runner doesn't make it past the height of release and the believers still believe, then we can try removing the magnets and see if the runner changes its stopping height. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 13:20:04 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA05501 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:20:02 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA05459 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:19:54 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA27361 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 16:04:04 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510212004.QAA27361@escape.com> Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 16:04:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <01HWPGCRIBXE99FDPI@delphi.com> from "Pat Harris" at Oct 21, 95 03:22:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 5069 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > > On 21-OCT-1995 13:18:46.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS > > >I think perhaps my mailer swallowed a piece of mail of mine, > >because no one responded when I wrote a fairly lengthy post > >(for me) detailing a simple way to test Pat Harris' device > >for energy conservation. > > Your reader must have swallowed my reply to your first message. > > >Those readers who have constructed ramps might therefore try the > >following scheme: enclose Pat Harris' ramps in 2 larger ramps thusly: > > >\ / > >\ / > >\ / > >\ / > >\ / > >\_______/\/\______/ > > >Those two lumps in the middle are Harris' ramps. > > >Let the runner start from way high and FAR AWAY from the > >magnetic fields of Harris' ramps. See how high the runner > >makes it up the second ramp. > > In my reply, I asked why you would do this? You would have to use > some other mechanism to get the runner to the 'way high and FAR > AWAY from the magnetic fields." In this case you would be > injecting a tremendous amount of energy into the system from the > PE of the runner very high! > In your original design, the runner starts out at a point where a magnetic field already exists. This is why it accelerates up the ramp. Therefore in *bringing* the runner to that point (with your hand, I assume) you are actually introducing energy into the system. As the runner moves, in your hand, to the starting point, through the magnetic field, you are doing work against the field and storing potential energy. This energy is then released--transformed into kinetic energy--as the runner rolls up the hill. The magnetic force against the runner is not strong enough for you to feel as you bring the runner to the starting point, and yet due to the runner's small mass, it is enough to push the runner up the ramp. If, however, I start with the runner far away from your stationary magnets, I know what I am dealing with. You see, it's not so easy for me to calculate the potential energy due to bringing the runner close to your stationary magnets, but it's easy to calculate the potential energy when the only factor involved is gravity. I understand that the idea here is that this particular arrangement of magnets is supposed to introduce energy into the system; that we're getting more energy than we put in. If that is the case, then as my runner rolls past your hill, your magnets will give it energy, and I'll be able to see the difference by measuring the height at whichit comes to rest. > Why not deal with what exists. You are adding and changing the > entire concept. > > If you are seeking CM, a single ranp is sufficient, and it does > not need your 'push' from on high and far away. Why require what > has already been eliminated. Sounds like a typical 'make-work > bureaucratic' approach. > > >Conventional physics predicts the runner will not rise any > >higher than the height at which it was released. > > Conventional physics says the runner will not rise higher that > the height at which it was released? > > > /\ /\ > / \ / \ > / \ / \ > ________o / \/ \ > > Then conventional physics would predict, that since the mass is > released from ground zero, so to speak, it should not rise > higher than ground zero. You have to get over the reality that > that is no longer true first. I think I've responded to this point above. Your starting position has more potential than the top of the ramp. This is because of the magnetic field. Without a magneteic field there, the runner would certainly not rise up the ramp. > > I cannot comprehend how you can say what you say and ignore the > above. Or are you aware of what is happening? > > And I think this is a search for free energy or o-u for the > moment. No one has spoken about generators yet, although they > are not far away. > > >Let's cut to the chase and see if there's anything > >interesting about this arrangement of magnets before getting > >lost in attempting to apply this "effect" for generators and > >such. > > Charles, > > Interesting to whom? > > I was here to offer information. I will stop that if you do not > find it intersting. I think I shall stop anyway. You are > convinced this is not worth anything, which suits me just fine. > By interesting, I mean interesting to physics. I am coming at this from a physics approach. This means that my own feelings are irrelevant; I'll look at the results of the experiments. So, what I am convinced of at this moment is not an issue. > Pat > > > > PatHarris@Delphi.Com > > `[1;36;41mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered > Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 13:54:28 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA12883 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:54:23 -0700 Received: from sashimi.wwa.com (root@sashimi.wwa.com [198.49.174.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA12872 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 13:54:19 -0700 Received: by sashimi.wwa.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0t6kvj-001VzdC; Sat, 21 Oct 95 15:54 CDT Message-Id: From: robert@wwa.com (Robert Stirniman ) Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 15:54:10 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199510211617.MAA04497@escape.com> from "Charles Hope" at Oct 21, 95 12:17:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1709 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Quoting Charles Hope: > As far as Brown's belief in the design guidance by ETs, this is a rumor > that I have never heard. There is an established connection between Townsend Brown and UFOs. I don't know the details. Brown was the founder of NICAP (National Investigations Comittee on Aerial Phenomena) which was on of the first independent groups to begin study of UFOs. Here's a brief biographical profile of Townsend Brown from NICAP: National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, Project Skylight (Brown served as Vice Chairman pro tempore during organizational period, 1956) Brown, Thomas Townsend 1922-23, private research laboratory, Pasadena, California; 1924-25, special electronics research, Denison University, Department of Physics; 1926-30, pri- vate research laboratory (astrophysics), Zanesville, Ohio, in collaboration with Dr. Paul Biefeld, Swazey Observatory, Granville, Ohio; 1930-33, Naval Re- search Laboratory (radiation and spectroscopy), Washington, D. C.; ... 1938, Assistant Engineering Officer (Lt. jg USNR) shakedown cruise USS NASHVILLE to Europe; 1939-40, Materials and Processes Engineer (aircraft), Glenn L. Martin Company, Baltimore; 1940-41, Officer-in-charge (Lt. USNR), Magnetic and Acous- tic Minesweeping, Research and Development, Bureau of Ships, Navy Department, Washington, D. C.; 1942-43, Officer-in-charge (Lt. Comdr. USNR), Atlantic Fleet Radar Materiel School and Gyro-compass School, Naval Operating Base, Norfolk, Virginia; 1944-45, Radar Consultant, Advanced Design Section, Lock- heed Aircraft Corporation, Burbank, California; ... Does anyone have any other biographical info about Townsend Brown? Robert Stirniman (robert@wwa.com) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 14:58:39 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA27538 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 14:58:34 -0700 Received: from bos1d.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1d.delphi.com [192.80.63.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA27486 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 14:58:23 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWPLS4Y9I899FIIF@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 17:58:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 17:58:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: TOMI test To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWPLS4Y9IA99FIIF@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 21-OCT-1995 15:00:20.3 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >At 10:02 PM 10/20/95, Pat Harris wrote: >> B >> / >> / | >> / | >> / | >> / | >> A / | >> D ------------ C >> >>All you have to do is figure out how to get the mass from C to D, >>back into the system of the single track, and Voila! You have >>CM! >> >>What is so difficult about that? >Perhaps we shall see, Pat. Thank you for reducing the >question to a very simple form. Despite my inclinations, I >will endeavor to study this problem soon...because my >"inclinations" just might be wrong. Well, have fun. I will give you one more clue for when 'soon' arrives. But progress will depend upon your inclinations, of course. B X / / / / o / | / | / | 0/ | A | D | C __________________________________ 'o' is an axle, a pivot point. Mass '0' is moved from 'A' to 'B.' What do you think happens then? Is it just possible, despite all your inclinations to the contrary, that mass '0' could move toward 'C,' then 'D,' then back to 'A'? And upon reentering the track at 'A,' do you really believe that, because it went up the incline once before, it will not climb the incline again? the Law of Conservation of Energy says that the kinetic energy of the movement of the mass up the incline is converted to PE at the upper apex. The law of equilibrium would seem to dictate the arm pivoting and swinging like a pendulum. The law of the swing for pendulum, in the configuration above, guarantees the heavier end will swing to a point just below the original height of initial high point, to 'X' As you can see, this is more than sufficient for the mass to return to the base of the incline, whether it is designed to stop it in the track on the upswing or on the downswing. And you are perfectly correct. Whatever gets the mass back into the track at the low point is a mechanical function. This is the 'Flapper.' It will demonstrate CM, but it has a flaw in my view. It must be set in the first instance, and any torque which would stop it would also dictate it be reset. In my view, 'Continuous Motion is merely continuous instability.' In order for any machine to operate in a manner in which torque can stop it, and then it restart on its own, the entire system must be in a continuous state of instability. In other words, it can be stopped to allow some resistive force to function and do work; but when that resistive back torque, so to speak, go below the motive torque of the machine, it must resume motion. This can only occur if, when it was stopped, it was in a state of instability under normal torque. The Hamster Cage is a more expensive version, but you can stop it with resistive torque, but because the hamster cannot find stability at a lower apex, it must always be in such a position as to cause imbalance, instability in the cage. There are several othe techniques to achieve the same effect. If you take the hamster cage off the axle and put it on a track, it will roll around a track, giving you your precious horizontal circumnavigation, and without inclines, a flat track. I had hoped most of you scientists and engineers would figure this all out, but it seems to be the 'inclination' to simply say it cannot be done. This indicates, also, that in my present condition, it is a waste of what time I have left to remain. Regards, Pat PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;37;43mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 15:29:23 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA04592 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 15:29:21 -0700 Received: from phoenix.net (root@phoenix.phoenix.net [199.3.232.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA04549 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 15:29:13 -0700 Received: from rumgod.phoenix.net (dial35.phoenix.net [199.3.234.70]) by phoenix.net (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA28744 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 17:29:10 -0500 Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 17:29:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199510212229.RAA28744@phoenix.net> X-Sender: rumgod@phoenix.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: rumgod@phoenix.net (A J Interests, Inc) Subject: Re: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> >> Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all alone. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sat Oct 21 16:34:03 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA18177 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 16:33:57 -0700 Received: from bos1g.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1g.delphi.com [192.80.63.7]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA18147 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 16:33:49 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWPP4QZ6DS9AO0GI@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 19:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 19:33:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWPP4QZG1E9AO0GI@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >> I was here to offer information. I will stop that if you >> do not find it intersting. I think I shall stop anyway. >> You are convinced this is not worth anything, which suits >> me just fine. >By interesting, I mean interesting to physics. I am coming at >this from a physics approach. This means that my own feelings >are irrelevant; I'll look at the results of the experiments. >So, what I am convinced of at this moment is not an issue. Well, I tried. PatHarris@Delphi.Com `[1;32;45mRainbow V 1.19.3 for Delphi - Registered From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 07:10:29 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA13408 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 07:10:03 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA13392 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 07:09:58 -0700 Received: from net-1-140.austin.eden.com (net-1-140.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.140]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id JAA04382 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:09:55 -0500 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:09:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199510221409.JAA04382@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: TOMI reaction X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Pat typically writes: >I was here to offer information. I will stop that if you do not >find it intersting. I think I shall stop anyway. You are >convinced this is not worth anything, which suits me just fine. Pat, all we did at first was express our opinions of your idea. Then as time passed, and the opinion of others was expressed, and various theories were offered etc., etc., etc. we have become interested in testing your idea. You appear to have misinterpreted our actions. On your "flapper idea"...there will be a considerable amount of work required to move the roller from C (on the floor away from the bottom of the ramp) to D (on the floor at the bottom of the ramp). This is because the roller is in a position of maximum magnetic repulsion at the bottom of the ramp. This is what must be measured and compared to the energy delivered to the roller when it is pushed up and off the ramp. Charles: I wasn't talking about a calculation of Fdx...but rather a measurement, using force transducer and a position transducer. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 09:39:05 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA05146 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:39:03 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA05122 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:38:57 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA14223 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:23:05 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510221623.MAA14223@escape.com> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:23:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Robert Stirniman" at Oct 21, 95 03:54:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 226 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There is biographical information about T. T. Brown in Bill Moore's book, The Philadelphia Experiment, of course. There was a conference in Philadelphia about Brown and his work, in, I believe the spring of 1993. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 10:24:08 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA07043 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:52:29 -0700 Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu (MAIL2.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.33]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA06995 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 09:52:18 -0700 Received: (from durduran@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.11/SAS 8.04) id MAA02150 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:52:15 -0400 From: durduran@sas.upenn.edu (Turgut Durduran) Posted-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:52:15 -0400 Message-Id: <199510221652.MAA02150@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:52:15 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510221623.MAA14223@escape.com> from "Charles Hope" at Oct 22, 95 12:23:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn2.9] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 479 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: WOuld anyone know of any person/address in Philadelphia right now, who is/has been involved in the Philadelphia Experiment issue? Any help is appreciated. Turgut Durduran Charles Hope wrote after Big Bang: *! *! There is biographical information about T. T. Brown in Bill Moore's book, *! The Philadelphia Experiment, of course. *! *! There was a conference in Philadelphia about Brown and his work, in, I *! believe the spring of 1993. *! *! *! Charles *! From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 10:47:56 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA17747 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:47:53 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA17727 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 10:47:48 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA22215 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:31:51 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510221731.NAA22215@escape.com> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:31:51 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510221652.MAA02150@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> from "Turgut Durduran" at Oct 22, 95 12:52:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1140 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > WOuld anyone know of any person/address in Philadelphia right now, > who is/has been involved in the Philadelphia Experiment issue? > > Any help is appreciated. > > > Turgut Durduran > > Charles Hope wrote after Big Bang: > *! > *! There is biographical information about T. T. Brown in Bill Moore's book, > *! The Philadelphia Experiment, of course. > *! > *! There was a conference in Philadelphia about Brown and his work, in, I > *! believe the spring of 1993. > *! > *! > *! Charles > *! > > The latest (!) on the issue comes to us from a Preston Nichols and an Al Bielek, who tell a tale of time travel, Military cooperation with ETs, brainwashings, and other high strangeness. They are not held in high repute. Other than that, I believe Vallee debunked Moore's account of the story, after finding an old sailor who claimed to be on board the ship in question. I can dig up the file and send it to you if you like. Moore's reputation is somewhat questionable itself, after his 1990 admission of having cooperated with US Intelligence as a disinformation agent in the Bennewitz affair. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 11:02:57 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA19955 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:02:55 -0700 Received: from mail1.sas.upenn.edu (durduran@MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU [165.123.26.32]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA19925 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:02:48 -0700 Received: (from durduran@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.11/SAS 8.04) id OAA00709 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:02:46 -0400 From: durduran@sas.upenn.edu (Turgut Durduran) Posted-Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:02:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199510221802.OAA00709@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:02:45 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510221731.NAA22215@escape.com> from "Charles Hope" at Oct 22, 95 01:31:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn2.9] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 214 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Please send me the contact info. for those names.. I am new in this list, and I do not have much background on this issue, so can't really figure out how to contact these people myself. Thanks, turgut durduran From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 11:19:33 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA22731 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:19:30 -0700 Received: from sashimi.wwa.com (root@sashimi.wwa.com [198.49.174.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA22720 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:19:25 -0700 Received: by sashimi.wwa.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0t74zT-001W00C; Sun, 22 Oct 95 13:19 CDT Message-Id: From: robert@wwa.com (Robert Stirniman ) Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:19:23 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199510221623.MAA14223@escape.com> from "Charles Hope" at Oct 22, 95 12:23:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 309 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Quoting Charles Hope: > > There was a conference in Philadelphia about Brown and his work, in, I > believe the spring of 1993. > Charles Hi Charles. Do you have any more info about this conference. Who conducted it and were the conference proceedings published? Thanks. Robert Stirniman (robert@wwa.com) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 11:20:41 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA22927 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:39 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22899; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:30 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id LAA01987; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:20:27 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com cc: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Irving Langmuir discovered charge clusters? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Everyone, please take a look at the BALL LIGHTNING PLASMA TUBE file I've just placed on WWW in Weird Science, under NOT YOUR AVERAGE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT. http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird.html Below is an excerpt. I wonder if these "globules" are the same as Shoulders' EV particles. If so, then Langmuir found a way to make pea-sized charge clusters in low pressure gas. He even may have duplicated Shoulders' use of EVs to create an oscilloscope display. ************************************************************************ ...If an ordinary horseshoe magnet is brought near the tube, the arc is deflected, as is any conductor carrying a similar current. At the same time the yellow skin appears on the opposite side of the arc on the side not in contact with the wall. As the magnet is brought nearer, the yellow skin becomes brighter and thinner, and curiously begins to act like a liquid. Slowly, tiny drops of golden yellow liquid fire are formed. They move along the surface, only to break away and fall, molten spheres of bright white light into the arc. By regulating the intensity of the magnetic field, these droplets or globules, ranging from a few tenths mm up to 5 or 6 mm in diameter (about the size of a pea) can be made to form slowly and detach themselves singly from the skin of the arc. By proper combination and longitudinal and transverse fields the globules may often be made to move upwards or downwards in the arc parallel to its axis for distances of to 5 or 10 cm, 2 to 4 inches. Under certain conditions the globules have been observed to move very slowly so that their motions through the arc could be easily followed by the unaided eye. But more often they move with the velocity of about a foot per second, and thus appear as brilliant lines or filamentary streamers. See Fig. 3 where several streamers with nearly parallel paths are shown. These streamers are formed by the influence of the magnetic field, and vary in appearance with the magnitude of the current flowing through the arc. If this current is varied, the motion of the streamers will be correspondingly affected. Thus, by superimposing an alternating current on the direct current fed to the anode, that is, the disc electrode, the streamers of individual globules will move in a sinusoidal path. That is, they will appear as a sine wave which is characteristic of alternating currents. The streamers will reproduce accurately the wave shape of the current even (Continued on page 284) .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 11:57:17 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA00361 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:57:14 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA00329 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 11:57:03 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA01402 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:41:04 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510221841.OAA01402@escape.com> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:41:04 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199510221802.OAA00709@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> from "Turgut Durduran" at Oct 22, 95 02:02:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 766 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Please send me the contact info. for those names.. I am new in this list, > and I do not have much background on this issue, so can't really figure > out how to contact these people myself. > > Thanks, > > turgut durduran > Which people? You don't want to contact Nichols and Bielek, do you? If you do, start with their book called "The Montauk Project" which explains their tale. Other than that, I forget who I mentioned. I don't know if Vallee is on the net. He's a well-know UFO author--actually the real life inspiration for that French dude in Close Encounters. You can find his books in any good store. Bill Moore is another author whose books are widely available as well. I will send Vallee's Philly debunking to whomever asks. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 13:00:14 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA13041 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:00:03 -0700 Received: from bos1h.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1h.delphi.com [192.80.63.8]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA13010 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 12:59:56 -0700 Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWQVXZ99QO9FO970@delphi.com> for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:59:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Harris Subject: TOMI reaction To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWQVXZ9JEA9FO970@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"freenrg-list@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On 22-OCT-1995 10:11:26.0 freenrg-list said to PATHARRIS >Pat typically writes: >tThis is ecause the roller is in a position of maximum >tmagnetic repulsion at he bottom of the ramp. This is what >rmust be measured and compared to he energy delivered to the >rroller when it is pushed up and off the amp. Okay. Pat From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 23:38:45 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA14807 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:09:01 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA14793 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:08:54 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id NAA12080; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:08:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 13:08:51 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Devices or smoke In-Reply-To: <199510201755.MAA27303@matrix.eden.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 20 Oct 1995, Scott Little wrote: > This could be simply wrong. Folks have been chasing free energy ever since > man invented the wheel...and maybe even before that (with waterfalls, etc.). > The smoke comes from man's imagination and, in the end, could turn out to be > just that....smoke! > > Another source of smoke is measurement errors. A significant fraction of > the reported o-u devices out there are not o-u...the inventor just thinks > they are. ...and on the other side, "crank" inventions never are sucessful, because once sucessful, the inventor is no longer a "crank." Researchers of old wouldn't touch Flying Machines or Space Ships, these were crackpot-only fields. Now they are not. Those who laugh at crazy inventions are quick to be silent and pretend they never laughed, once the invention proves successful. One "free energy" discovery that made good: Pitchblende ore seemed to be forever spewing out invisible light. We all know what came of this, right? Scott is correct in that there are enormous numbers of mistaken inventions and huge amounts of self-delusion in the "fringe science" fields. An experimenter is foolish if he/she expects to slap together a Neuman Motor or something similar and power their house with it. I think the situation is like that with flying machines in 1890: lots of basement inventors, secret techniques, rumors of sucess, ridicule by skeptics, but nothing "real." The rewards for the occasional rare success are vast. An amateur who pokes around in unexplored "fringe science" areas stands a chance of making incredible discoveries. But you have to enjoy failure, and you have to love crackpot ideas. And you have to know that you probably won't be the next "Wright Bros.", but probably WILL be able to look back and say that you were working in the field when overunity devices finally became useful. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 14:17:47 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA28342 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:17:43 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28332 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:17:39 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id OAA17388; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:17:35 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:17:34 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Devices? In-Reply-To: <199510211628.MAA05424@escape.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A On Sat, 21 Oct 1995, Charles Hope wrote: > I think perhaps my mailer swallowed a piece of mail of mine, because no > one responded when I wrote a fairly lengthy post (for me) detailing a > simple way to test Pat Harris' device for energy conservation. > > Those readers who have constructed ramps might therefore try the following > scheme: enclose Pat Harris' ramps in 2 larger ramps thusly: > > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \ / > \_______/\/\______/ > GMTA! See below, note date. I never built it though. As Scott noticed, even if the TOMI device put out a small amount of anomalous energy, it might be smaller than the frictional losses, and the roller would still rise to a lesser height. This would mask the anomaly. So, use a control: replace the TOMI ramps with a straight section of non-magnetic track, and note any changes in the height attained. If the TOMI device makes the roller rise higher than the straight-track control, then something interesting may be happening. On 25-JAN-1995 03:29:58.1 billb said to PATHARRIS bi[ than an energy generator. If you have to push the roller down into the bi[ magnetic field by hand, then release it so it takes off, then you are bi[ storing energy as "compressed magnetism" and then letting the energy bi[ launch the roller. BUT, if you can let the roller roll down a U-shape bi[ track with your magnet track as part of the bottom of the 'U', and have bi[ the roller finish up at a higher position than it started, then you bi[ have energy coming from someplace mysterious: bi[ | | bi[ | roller finish point <*>| bi[ | | bi[ | | bi[ | <*> roller drop point | bi[ \ / bi[ \ / bi[ \_ _/ bi[ -__ __- bi[ --___ ___-- bi[ ----_____-----------------______---- bi[ |_______________| bi[ Your device .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 23:52:27 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00695 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:27:46 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA00632 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:27:29 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id OAA18089; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:27:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 14:27:24 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Devices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 22 Oct 1995, William Beaty wrote: > If the TOMI device makes the roller rise higher than the straight-track > control, then something interesting may be happening. ^^^^^^^^^^^ I should be clearer and say that "something with earthshaking implications" may be happening. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 23:44:38 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA07673 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:01:33 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA07634 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:01:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199510222201.PAA07634@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:21:44 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 05:29 PM 10/21/95 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>> > >Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida >used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all alone. > > > I thought he used sound. gh __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 23:55:29 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA14498 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:32:51 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA14469 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:32:43 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id PAA24330; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:32:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 15:32:41 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Current list of users Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Want to be found by other users of freenrg-list? Mail me an entry similar to those below, and I'll add you to the list. You can find this list at http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html ADDRESSES OF FREENRG-LIST SUBSCRIBERS If you want to be included on this list, notify Bill B., bilb@eskimo.com _______________________________________________________________________ Bill Beaty 7040 22nd Ave NW Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com http://www.eskimo.com/~billb _______________________________________________________________________ John Bell P.O. Box 123 Kenduskeag, ME 04450 jbell@greatoz.sdi.agate.net http://trio.ume.maine.edu/~ubrmsc/johnbell.html _______________________________________________________________________ Bob Paddock RD 1, Box 601 Cranberry, PA 16319 Phone at work: 814-677-0716 Work FAX: 814-678-1302 I run a BBS at 814-678-1321 bpaddock@execpc.com _______________________________________________________________________ Warren York INFO/NET Research 7101 N. Mesa Suite 133 El Paso, Texas 79912 Home Ph.# 915 581-3931 Internet: infonet@primenet.com Topics under study: TIME, Gravity, Light & FTL, PSI, Optics, EVP, UFO's, Realtivity, Unification Equation, New Electron Model We study ALL Phenomena. BBS online soon. We also have information on Genetics that are out of this world. Beyond anything man has ever dreamt of. _______________________________________________________________________ Zack Widup 1003 E Washington St Urbana IL 61801 ph. 217-367-5750 Internet: w9sz@prairienet.org Amateur Radio W9SZ _______________________________________________________________________ .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 23:56:58 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA24829 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:21:15 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA24722 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:20:55 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id QAA29122; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:20:53 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: freenrg-list message archive Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I've finally started up an archive for the list. The September messages are there (though not much, since the list was created in mid-sept.) Go to Weird Science, http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird.html Then go to the UNCONVENTIONAL PHYSICS DISCUSSION, which is the web page for freenrg-list. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 00:04:14 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA24601 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:20:29 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA24521 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:20:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199510222320.QAA24521@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:41:16 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >configuration and concluded that the TOMI would not work in a closed >loop. I think you're right Chuck. Several years ago there was a device connected in some way with the Johnson Permanent Magnet Motor, supposing to be a simple demonstration of it. Laying out some radio shack magnets with a trolley or a boat above the track, where the trolley or boat contains another set of magnets, it was supposed to move along the track, and it did. The longer the track, the less well it worked. Although it was also supposed to work in a circle, it did not. The reason is elementary. There was an energy loading effect when placing the moving magnet on the "track", and it was taking advantage of the magnetic difference of the moving magnet's north and south poles in relation to it's seeing a north or a south below it. Hours, months and years can be spent trying to tweak one of these to an imaginary level of perfection to make them work. Over and over again we see a pattern of optimism on some kind of F/E idea, followed by a fever of excitement, stories of efforts to suppress it, then scrutiny, then the big letdown. The search is important but the scrutiny even more so to loop through the Free Energy Spiralling Death Syndrome as quickly as possible. Even Faraday chased this golden grail, looking for current flowing in streams that run north and south as they move through the earth's magnetic field. Cheers to the campaign, damn the errors. A frustrating quandry suited best for those with eternal patience. Gary __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 00:14:45 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA00517 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:46:52 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA00478 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:46:44 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id QAA01455; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:46:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 16:46:41 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: on TOMI (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This below is from the NEOTECH mailing list. Contact LadyNada@ix.netcom.com if you want to become a subscriber. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 18:57:34 +0000 From: LadyNada To: neotech@world.std.com Subject: anon: on TOMI -> SearchNet's neotech Mailing List Another anon post In Pat Harris' TOMI device much is discussed. The following are observations made while working with the exact types of magnets he specifies. The magnets were obtained in sets from Radio Shack and were measured for field strength and selected to have a suitably uniform strength. This is only mentioned in an effort to let the community know the work was undertaken in a methodical fashion. The following thoughts and observations are in no way meant to be new, original or to supplant in any way the work of Harris. I have communicated with him and found hhim to be straight forward, honest and he is to be commended. Observations and models. A model is just that, a thinking tool and no more, for the purposes of this discussion. 1) The mild ferrite PMs can be thought of as having 3 poles, north, south and neutral. 2) If one makes a linear horizontal track, as pers Harris, a roll of magnets can be inserted in one end and then they will progress to the end and emerge. A possible improvement for experimental purposes is to put the moving magnets, the "rolls", on little non magnetic roller bearing carts so as to be able to get closer spacing and avoid twisting effects. This also has the effect of making the observed actions much more reproducible. 3) On to ramps: All of the ramp designs indicate the roller or moving magnet, which I will simply call "mm", for ease, traverses to whole length of the track, to be called "tr". Suppose one were to allow the ramp to make its downward turn ... PRIOR TO the end of the track. 4) We have observed if one puts the mm into the track from the repulsion end one must overcome a "hill" of force ..... if one exploits this hill then momentum will take the mm through the neutral point and then the mm will accelerate toward the end of the track and emerge. Many have done this. 5) On emergence the attractive force will tend to remove some of the acquired energy. One need not pass this point, but one may instead so configure matters so as to have the ramp go downward.... at a point to be determind best by one's own set up .... somewhere between neutral and the end point of the attractive end. We call this an extraction point. 6) One can also play with insertion points. 7) A suggestion is to insert at a point which is "over" the little repulsion hill a bit .... enough to permit some push, the momentum pass through neutral, and then extract at an appropriate point not quite at the end of the attraction part of the track. 8) Gravity plays a VERY important role in assisting the extraction and insertion. In this configuration this is no "down hill" magnet track, just the up hill push-pull. 9) Finally, while Harris is clearly aware of such effects, and needs little or no teaching, I am nearly astounded no one has investigated this .... or if they have, why they have not reported it. 10) To conclude, researches are encouraged to solicit the resources of a good magnetic fields APPLICATION type, such a motor or transformer designers. Also: Trust what you feel with your hands and fingers, and when something does not seem to operate as you wish or believe it should..... for goodness' sake CHANGE SOMETHING! Remember: In this work you control it ..... it does not, or should not, control you. In this case the "it" is the performance of the TOMI work of Harris. And thank all for cogent posts, and a general lack of "piss and moan", hate, and, in some cases, jumping to conclusions. Build it. Report it. Then we might get somewhere. Anon -> Posted by: "LadyNada" From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Sun Oct 22 23:52:43 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA22632 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:52:41 -0700 Received: from apollo.is.co.za (apollo.is.co.za [196.4.160.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA22607 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:52:31 -0700 Received: from mbyte2.eng.aat.co.za by apollo.is.co.za (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4tmp8) id IAA12865; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:50:59 +0200 Received: from dev2.eng.aat.co.za ([196.6.183.25]) by mbyte2.eng.aat.co.za (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01726; Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:52:30+020 Received: from TELEMATICS/MAILQUEUE by dev2.eng.aat.co.za (Mercury 1.21); 23 Oct 95 08:52:51 +2 Received: from MAILQUEUE by TELEMATICS (Mercury 1.21); 23 Oct 95 08:52:28 +2 From: "chris kleynhans" Organization: Alcatel Altech Telecoms To: Charles Hope , eskimo.com!freenrg-list@apollo.is.co.za Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:52:19 +2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: T. T. Brown X-Confirm-Reading-To: "chris kleynhans" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-Id: <116AF9D4FD7@dev2.eng.aat.co.za> Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Received: from MAILQUEUE by TELEMATICS (Mercury 1.21); 21 Oct 95 19:00:50 +2 > Return-path: > Received: from mbyte2.eng.aat.co.za by dev2.eng.aat.co.za (Mercury 1.21); > 21 Oct 95 19:00:47 +2 > Received: by mbyte2.eng.aat.co.za (4.1/SMI-4.1) > id AA00934; Sat, 21 Oct 95 19:00:39+020 > Received: from mail.eskimo.com by apollo.is.co.za (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4tmp8) > id SAA19365; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 18:38:30 +0200 > Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA18988 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 09:33:08 -0700 > Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA18966 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 09:33:02 -0700 > Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA04497 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:17:14 -0400 > From: Charles Hope > Message-Id: <199510211617.MAA04497@escape.com> > Subject: T. T. Brown > To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com > Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 12:17:13 -0400 (EDT) > In-Reply-To: <9509208142.AA814225487@irout.advantor.com> from "reim" at Oct 20, 95 02:44:47 pm > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 357 > Sender: eskimo.com!owner-freenrg-list@apollo.is.co.za > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@apollo.is.co.za > X-PMFLAGS: 35651712 > > Have you run your gravitators in vacuum, to test the ion wind hypothesis? > According to the ion wind hypothesis, the Biefeld-Brown effect should > diminish in a vacuum; according to rumor, it increases. This is an > important experiment to perform. > > As far as Brown's belief in the design guidance by ETs, this is a rumor > that I have never heard. > > > Charles > > Two interesting phenomena that are mentioned in documents describing T.T Brown's experiments, are the strange light it emitted and the sound it made. In my opinion that would be the clue to a further scientific study if it hasn't been done yet. The light should be analysed by a spectroscope to distinguish the root colors and from there the energy jumps could be established. The sound would also suggest that some disturbance in the material takes place. An analysis of the sound in terms of frequencies etc should be very beneficial. It would be interesting to know if the energy levels would be that of the dielectric used or if it is totally divorced from it. If it has no resemblance to the dielectric, we might be onto something new in quantum mechanics but I'm too far from an expert to make solid deductions. If anybody know if such experiments has already been performed, I think it should be posted to this newsgroup. Best Regards Chris Kleynhans Your friend in lovely South Africa From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:26:54 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA26893 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:22:24 -0700 Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net (magicnet.magicnet.net [204.96.116.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA26869 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:22:17 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA02000 for magicnet.magicnet.net!eskimo.com!freenrg-list; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 11:20:44 -0400 Received: from cc:Mail by irout.advantor.com id AA814472055 Mon, 23 Oct 95 11:14:15 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 11:14:15 From: "reim" Encoding: 1779 Text Message-Id: <9509238144.AA814472055@irout.advantor.com> To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net Subject: Re[2]: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I sure had a lot of Email this morning from this group. To answer a few items, no I have not tried my high voltage caps in a vacuum yet since I am having problems making the caps. They tend to crack in the drying process before they get fired but I am still working on it. As for the guy who moved limestone in Florida, I do not hold much faith from some one who claims to have done something extraordinary and refuses to tell anyone about how he did it. I have read a booklet that this guy puts out, it's available at the limestone castle. As an electrical engineer myself this guy does not know anything about electronics and has no technical background at all. What his booklet said was so ridiculous I had to laugh. I don't remember all of the details about it but he did not believe in electrons plus many other fundamental properties. Don't get me wrong I am very open minded about new theories but this guy didn't know what he was talking about. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Devices? Author: magicnet.magicnet.net!eskimo.com!freenrg-list at ~Internet Date: 10/23/95 10:13 AM > >>Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida >>used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all alone. >> >> >> >I thought he used sound. > >gh You mean, like yelling "Hey you guys .. a little more to the right!" :-) (I couldn't resist!) Seriously, I have never heard about this project before. Can anyone fill me in or tell me where I can read more? Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 06:37:09 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA06964 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 06:36:54 -0700 Received: from bluestem.prairienet.org (root@bluestem.prairienet.org [192.17.3.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA06936 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 06:36:47 -0700 Received: from firefly.prairienet.org (w9sz@firefly.prairienet.org [192.17.3.3]) by bluestem.prairienet.org (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA08830 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:30:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from w9sz@localhost) by firefly.prairienet.org (8.7.1/8.7.1) id IAA21521; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:36:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:36:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199510231336.IAA21521@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >>Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida >>used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all alone. >> >> >> >I thought he used sound. > >gh You mean, like yelling "Hey you guys .. a little more to the right!" :-) (I couldn't resist!) Seriously, I have never heard about this project before. Can anyone fill me in or tell me where I can read more? Zack w9sz@prairienet.org From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:10:52 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA18719 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:00:10 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA18641 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:59:48 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA23827 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:43:53 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510231643.MAA23827@escape.com> Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:43:52 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "William Beaty" at Oct 22, 95 02:17:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1663 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > On 25-JAN-1995 03:29:58.1 billb said to PATHARRIS > bi[ than an energy generator. If you have to push the roller down into the > bi[ magnetic field by hand, then release it so it takes off, then you are > bi[ storing energy as "compressed magnetism" and then letting the energy > bi[ launch the roller. BUT, if you can let the roller roll down a U-shape > bi[ track with your magnet track as part of the bottom of the 'U', and have > bi[ the roller finish up at a higher position than it started, then you > bi[ have energy coming from someplace mysterious: > bi[ | | > bi[ | roller finish point <*>| > bi[ | | > bi[ | | > bi[ | <*> roller drop point | > bi[ \ / > bi[ \ / > bi[ \_ _/ > bi[ -__ __- > bi[ --___ ___-- > bi[ ----_____-----------------______---- > bi[ |_______________| > bi[ Your device > Are any of the readers of this list who have already constructed Harris Ramps interested in observing behavior in the above configuration? Those of us on the theory side are very curious as to the results of this test! Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:42:17 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA22113 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:18:00 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA21955 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:16:50 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA25597 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:58:20 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510231658.MAA25597@escape.com> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:58:19 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Robert Stirniman" at Oct 22, 95 01:19:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 8695 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > Quoting Charles Hope: > > > > There was a conference in Philadelphia about Brown and his work, in, I > > believe the spring of 1993. > > Charles > > Hi Charles. Do you have any more info about this conference. Who > conducted it and were the conference proceedings published? > Thanks. > Robert Stirniman (robert@wwa.com) > Here's all the info I have on it: ========================================================================= Path: news.cuny.edu!ukma!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!uunet.ca!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!psuvm!srk106 Organization: Penn State University Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 16:58:44 EDT From: Senthil R. Kumar Message-ID: <94119.165844SRK106@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranet.science Subject: T. T. Brown Conf. -- A Report Lines: 138 I am posting this on a friend's behalf --Kumar ----------------------------------------------------------------- A Report on the T. Townsend Brown Conference: "Focus on Unconventional Energies: A Symposium on Electrical Propulsion & the Technology of Electro-Gravity" April 15-16, 1994 Philadelphia Community College, Philadelphia, PA by Patrick Bailey This conference was held in tribute to Thomas Townsend Brown and I feel that it was a great success. About 15 speakers and 80 attendees provided a brief overview of Zero Point Energy theories, Free Energy devices, electrostatics theory, and antigravity experiments and documentation. Attendees came from as far away as California and Washington. We all should thank and continue to support Gus von Grossman and Harriet Wealth, who created and made the conference possible; and Nancy Kolenda of Temple University, and Thomas Katen and Jim Oswald of Philadelphia Community College for managing and supporting this important event. The conference program advertised the following topics: "A Review of Advanced Energy Devices: Evidence, Promises, and Dangers" by Patrick Bailey (VP INE); "Thomas Townsend Brown's Electro-Gravities Research in the 1950's" by Tom Valone (Integrity Institute); "The Role of Electro-Statics" by Charles Yost (Electric Spacecraft Journal); "Thomas Townsend Brown's Research: A Challenge to Modern Science" by Elizabeth Rauscher (Tecnic Research Laboratories); "Electro-Gravitic Theory: Explaining the Operating Principle of Brown's Electric Disks" by Paul LaViolette (The Starburst Foundation); "A Panel Discussion on Biofield-Brown and Beyond;" "Vortices in the Zero Point Energy" by Moray King; "Design of a Compact Marx Generator Triggered by a Blumlein Capacitor" by George Hathaway; "Thomas Townsend Brown's Final Gravito-Electric Research" by Josh Reynolds (New Wave Partners); "Townsend Brown Effects Reviewed" by Ron Kovac; "Pushing the Boundaries: Electro-Hydro Dynamic Potentials ..." by Henry Monteith, and "Gravity Drop Tests" by Don Kelly (SEA). As a researcher in the Zero Point Energy and Free Energy fields for the past 10 years, I was struck by how much important information regarding T. T. Brown that I didn't know about. I had of course heard of Brown's flying tethered disk experiments, and the larger ones which were classified by the military, but I did not know about his 1934 patent and his existing research notes which hint at the ability to tap into a free energy type of force field. Obviously, more serious research needs to be done by the INE network to digest and understand all of Brown's theories, information, and experimental data. Here is a listing of T. T. Brown's patents: T. Townsend Brown Patents: 1,974,483 (Sep. 25, 1934) "Electrostatic Motor" 2,949,550 (Aug. 16, 1960) "Electrokinetic Apparatus" 3,018,394 (Jan. 23, 1962) "Electrokinetic Transducer" 3,022,430 (Feb. 20, 1962) "Electrokinetic Generator" 3,187,206 (Jun. 1, 1965) "Electrokinetic Apparatus" Any of these and other patents may be ordered for $3.00 each from: The Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks, Box 9, Washington DC 20231; or obtained at higher price from Regional Patent Information locations, such as: The Patent Information Clearinghouse, 1500 Partridge Avenue, Building 7, Sunnyvale, CA 94087, (408) 730-7290, FAX (408) 735-8762. It is very interesting to note that Townsend Brown was the pioneer in this field, and was not able to obtain very much support for his work until the 1950's. During that time, there was much discussion of gravity and antigravity within the aerospace industry and in the magazine "Aviation Week." Then the Gravity Research Group (GRG) published a detailed summary report of their review of research into "Electrostatic Motion, Dynamic Counterbary, and Barycentric Control" (i.e. "Antigravity"). This report is the last public report that any researchers have been able to find for us that deals with the physical effects of electrostatics, electrodynamics, and gravity control. (It is also worth noting that this report was found in the Wright Patterson Air Force Base Library "TL 565 A9" and was not listed in the library catalog). So, after the mid-1950's to the present, no other information regarding the technology of electrodynamics and its effect on gravity has been able to be found in any of the UN-classified U.S. literature. I wonder where it went? As a result of the conference, projects have been started to obtain all of Brown's patents and make them available as a packet of information, complete with any other available information regarding his work. We have also requested that his notebooks be copied and made available to serious researchers. The results of these new projects will be reported to all of the attendees from the conference and in a future issue of NEN. One good source of summary information in these areas is Tom Valone's new book: "Electrogravitics Systems." It contains information from the GRG "Electrogravitics Systems Report (Feb. 1956)," "The Gravity Situation" report by Gravity Rand Ltd (Dec. 1956), "Negative Mass As a Gravitational Source of Energy in the Quasi-Sellar Radio Sources" 1964 1st prize winning report by Banesh Hoffman, "The U.S. Antigravity Squadron" paper by Paul LaViolette (1993), and summary information from the above T. T. Brown patents. This book is available for $15.00 (postage included) as: "Electrogravitics Systems, Reports on a New Propulsion," Integrity Research Institute, 1377 K Street NW, Suite 204, Washington, DC 20005, 202-452-7674. Looking back at the conference, most of the lectures were concerned with summarizing the known information from Brown's patents and well documented experiments. Very little information was given regarding his private experiments and the vast amount of theoretical ideas and experimental data that he probably has documented in his research notebooks. It was repeatedly suggested that a responsible committee or networking group needs to be setup to be able to go over all of the details in Brown's existing documents to distill what important information may be there. Josh Reynolds, Tom Valone, and myself volunteered to chair this committee and get this investigation going. Since Brown's experiments with disks appeared to be able to defy gravity (somewhat like John Searl's disks), there was some discussion at the conference regarding flying saucers, UFOs, the Philadelphia Experiment, and the Montak Project. While these areas were held as fringe areas at this conference, they could have information that may relate back to Brown's discoveries. In my summary during the panel discussion, I presented my views that: (1) We do not know what T. T. Brown really did, and we need to organize and distribute his patents and materials to a committee (or a company) to find out; (2) Individuals will not be allowed to accomplish much within U.S. - instead we need teamwork, networking, corporations, and an international corporation to distribute results; (3) Commercial applications of any advanced technology were not possible 3 years ago, and should easily be possible now; (4) Existing graduate school textbook theory is not applicable to describe the physical effects seen by Biofield, Brown, William Hooper, and Hans Coler (and others) - we need more data and new mathematical models for dynamic EM interactions; and (5) Strong dis-information will continue to persist, especially the use of simplistic thinking - such as that which comes from the use of Heavyside's simplification of "Maxwell's Equations" into 3-D vector form, and the assumptions of the so-called "General Theory of Relativity." Individually, we will see the problems and become inspired. Networking together, we will obtain the answers and implement the applications. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:36:17 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA18802 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:00:40 -0700 Received: from big.aa.net (root@big.aa.net [204.157.220.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA18753 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:00:23 -0700 Received: from s3c3p7.aa.net (s3c3p7.aa.net [204.157.220.163]) by big.aa.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00515 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:00:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:00:17 -0700 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199510231700.KAA00515@big.aa.net> X-Sender: mwm@aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: mwm@aa.net (Michael Mandeville) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Devices? Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > >I designed and built a 90 KV variable pulse rate power supply. I am currently >trying to make a barium titinate capacitor to see if I can duplicate some of >Brown's work. I have gotten some good information over the net from many people >who has done work in this field and one person who was a friend of the family of >Brown's. Also this person would like to find out if any one knows where he can >get in contact with Brown wife or daughter since he hasn't talked to them in a >long time. This person said that his father was the one who drew up many of >brown drawings. He said that he has seen several of his inventions since Brown >would bring them over to his house. One thing I thought was of interest was he >said that Brown believed that he was in contact with ET's in his dreams and that >many of his patents were ideas that ET's told him in his dreams. I talked to >this person over the phone for quite a while and he seemed sincere. Has anyone >else ever heard of this? > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > > Since Scott Little weighed in with the pessimistic possibility, I'll weigh in with an optimistic possibility, just to keep you quessing. Telepathic contact with others and with ET is becoming widely discussed and noted. Brown is hardly alone in his claim. In fact, millions claim it. So, I wouldn't hastily dismiss it. I personally conclude that ET is there and that ET is probably a telepathic race. Humans sometimes seem to exhibit telepathic behavior, but mostly erratically. There are very few substantiated reliable telepaths, but there are some. Cayce was one. The former Soviet Union accredited some, and they knew what they were doing. Personally, I think that such contact has to be thoroughly demonstrated before the claim can be accepted. Humans can easily deceive themselves and I think do quite often. But I think the phenomenon is real and that Brown COULD be correct. The proof is in the pudding: does the communication result in verifiable data which most likely would not come from some other phenomenon. Advanced technology, if it works, fits that category as it is extremely difficult to conceive and make work a new principle of operation outside of normal perceptual grasp, as any inventor truly knows. The mind can invent the most elaborate theories which simply do not work, getting to something which does work is not easy. So, does any of Brown's stuff work? If so, I would give his claim considerable initial credence. Otherwise, don't worry about it because you can't evaluate it. ____________________________________ MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing Michael Mandeville, publisher mwm@aa.net http://www.aa.net/~mwm From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:10:29 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA29131 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:56:17 -0700 Received: from picard.msoe.edu (picard.msoe.edu [155.92.10.3]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA29034 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:55:55 -0700 Received: from warp.msoe.edu by obrien.msoe.edu (MX V4.1 AXP) with SMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:55:38 EDT Received: from WARP/MAILQUEUE by warp.msoe.edu (Mercury 1.21); 23 Oct 95 14:55:46 GMT+6 Received: from MAILQUEUE by WARP (Mercury 1.21); 23 Oct 95 14:55:43 GMT+6 From: "GEISER IAN R" Organization: Milwaukee School of Engineering To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 14:55:34 CST6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Devices? X-Confirm-Reading-To: "GEISER IAN R" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Message-ID: <24238441FA@warp.msoe.edu> Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:36:41 -0500 (CDT) > From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) > To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: Devices? > Reply-to: freenrg-list@eskimo.com > > > > > >>Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida > >>used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all alone. > >> > >> > >> > >I thought he used sound. > > > >gh > > You mean, like yelling "Hey you guys .. a little more to the right!" :-) > > (I couldn't resist!) > > Seriously, I have never heard about this project before. Can anyone fill > me in or tell me where I can read more? > > Zack > w9sz@prairienet.org > I thought i rean across some archives in Sumaira Virtual Library on Harmonics. I know i have a t-file or two but i will have to dig them up they are on paper so i will have to get them scaned. I do know it has to do with a project in the Hymalayas. I wish i had more off hand but i will _try_ to get some more info in the near future. hey i'm currently working on the "gravity capacitor." it looks like a take off of a townsend/brown device. if any one has any information on it i would like it. ian gieser . /_\ when the going gets weird the weird turn pro...... From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Mon Oct 23 23:12:36 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA15379 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:52:33 -0700 Received: from xmission.xmission.com (pra@[198.60.22.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA15182 for ; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 21:51:05 -0700 Received: (from pra@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.1/8.6.12) id WAA10122 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Mon, 23 Oct 1995 22:50:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Ed Harada Message-Id: <199510240450.WAA10122@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 22:50:22 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: from "Robert Stirniman" at Oct 21, 95 03:54:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There was a T. T. Brown on the Condon committee. My guess is that it was T. Townsend Brown. pra From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:47:16 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA17632 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:29:53 -0700 Received: from metronet.com (Usdf@mail.metronet.com [192.245.137.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA17505 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:29:19 -0700 Received: by metronet.com id AA10699 (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for eskimo.com!freenrg-list); Tue, 24 Oct 1995 17:29:07 -0400 Received: from SDF.LONESTAR.ORG with uucp; Tue, 24 Oct 95 15:58:24 Received: by SDF.LONESTAR.ORG (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0t7qQM-0000zoC; Tue, 24 Oct 95 15:58 CDT Message-Id: From: chuck@sdf.lonestar.org (Chuck Knight) Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:58:16 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199510231336.IAA21521@firefly.prairienet.org> from "Zack Widup" at Oct 23, 95 08:36:41 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 487 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >>Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida > >>used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all alone. > >> > >I thought he used sound. > > You mean, like yelling "Hey you guys .. a little more to the right!" :-) > > Seriously, I have never heard about this project before. Can anyone fill > me in or tell me where I can read more? I'm interested, too. Can anyone provide more detailed information? -- Chuck Knight From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 20:08:52 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA00605 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:08:42 -0700 Received: from compumedia.com (root@users.compumedia.com [199.242.25.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA00579 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:08:38 -0700 Received: from ppp223.compumedia.com by compumedia.com with smtp (Smail3.1.27.1 #1) id m0t7wJF-0005jXC; Tue, 24 Oct 95 20:15 PDT Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 20:15 PDT X-Sender: skot@compumedia.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: skot@compumedia.com (Scott Becker) Subject: Common sense physics vs conventional physics Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A Had I been rooted better in conventional physics in school perhaps I'd not have stumbled across some anomolies in the basic physics concepts. These are very basic but quickly lead to: Energy is not conserved. Compare: A house with a 1000W electric heater in it. A house with a 1000W electric fired closed loop steam engine successfully running a 100W generater which powers a 100W heater. Before learning about conventional physics common sense told me that the second house had some free energy coming to it. 1000W worth of waste heat from the condensor plus 100W worth of heat from the heater. Conventional physics told me that only 900W of the input became waste heat because the other 100 was converted to kenetic energy. Giving the same total as the input. The question is now, "Do heat engines use heat or just harness a temperature difference like a waterfall harnesses a height difference?" I ran into difficulties trying to prove my view with a gas as the working element in a heat engine because the specific heat capacity of the gas was "approximate" in the physics book. I have since stumbled upon a much simpler means of explaining it. Picture a rod of metal. When it is heated it gets longer and when cooled gets shorter. It therefore could be used as the working element in a heat engine. First we'll run this heat engine with no load. With no load we're not doing any work, simply heating and cooling a metal rod putting in exactly the same amount of heat as we're taking out. Second If we take the rod all by itself at 72 deg and place weight on it or pull on it the temperature will not change. Unless we pull or push so hard that the bar deforms in which case the temperature will rise a bit. However there is no physical stress that can be applied that will cause the temperature to drop. Likewise the specific heat capacity of the bar does not change at all with changes in stress. This is common sense and can be easily verified. Therefore: When the heat engine is ran with a load ( doing work by resisting the length changes as the temperature cycles ) all of the input heat is extracted during the cooling cycle. Which means that this heat engine does not use up any of the heat ( and I contend that none of them do ). There are significant implications to this concept including a free energy machine ( that does not claim bazaar phenomena ) as well as "Energy is not conserved". I will discuss this more in the future if anyone is interested. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 04:20:57 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA15476 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 04:20:56 -0700 Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA15469 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 04:20:53 -0700 Received: from earth.execpc.com (bpaddock@earth.execpc.com [204.29.202.50]) by execpc.com (8.7.1/8.6.11) with ESMTP id GAA27701 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:18:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from bpaddock@localhost) by earth.execpc.com (8.7/8.7) id GAA17012; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:19:54 -0500 (CDT) From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: T. T. Brown Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 20:24:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <199510221841.OAA01402@escape.com> In-Reply-To: <199510221841.OAA01402@escape.com> Lines: 27 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In article <199510221841.OAA01402@escape.com>, you wrote: >> > >Which people? You don't want to contact Nichols and Bielek, do you? If >you do, start with their book called "The Montauk Project" which >explains their tale. > >Other than that, I forget who I mentioned. I don't know if Vallee is on >the net. He's a well-know UFO author--actually the real life inspiration >for that French dude in Close Encounters. You can find his books in any >good store. > >Bill Moore is another author whose books are widely available as well. > >I will send Vallee's Philly debunking to whomever asks. I'm asking. :-) I live next to the "Reno Franklin" sign that is discussed in Moore's P.E. book. I can tell you *I* don't hold Moore in high regard, he owes me money! :-( He also made the comment, referring to his Philly book "some day I'll have to go back and read what I wrote". Duh... Lost all respect for any thing he did after that. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 21:50:01 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA28624 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:49:59 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA28605 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:49:55 -0700 Received: from net-2-115.austin.eden.com (net-2-101.austin.eden.com [204.177.170.101]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id XAA16487; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:49:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 23:49:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199510250449.XAA16487@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: Common sense physics vs conventional physics X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:15 PM 10/24/95 PDT, Scott Becker wrote: > Energy is not conserved. I'll take a stab at this one, Scott. From reading your entire post, I'd guess that you are thinking of a heat engine incorrectly. For example, you talk about heating and cooling a rod of metal and extracting mechanical work from each cycle. True, you could extract such work from the expansion and contraction of the metal. True, the same amount of heat energy is added to the rod each time to make it warm and then removed from the rod to make it cool. What you seem to be neglecting is the fact that work is required to move that heat energy into and/or out of the rod. If you start out in a room where everything is the same temperature, you have to do work to pump some of the heat energy in the room into the metal rod. Of course, the rod will cool off by itself back to room temperature when you turn off the heat pump. Over such a cycle, you will find that the amount of work you can get from the expansion and contraction of the metal is somewhat less than the amount of work required to pump the heat into the rod. Another way to cycle the rod is to place it in a fire to heat it up, then remove it from the fire to let it cool. This cycle removes heat energy from the fire, converts some of it to mechanical work, and dumps the rest to the environment. This situation is quite like the "waterfall" analogy you used and, in fact, is the way that heat engines are classically analyzed. Interestingly, by knowing only the temperature of the heat source and the temperature of the heat sink, you can calculate the maximum efficiency with which heat energy removed from the source can be converted into another form (e.g. mechanical, electrical, etc.) This is called the Carnot efficiency and is given by: Th - Tc n = ---------------- Th where n is the efficiency (a fraction of 1), Th is the hot temp, Tc is the cold temp both expressed in absolute temperatures (i.e. Kelvin or Rankine). For example, with boiling water and ice water, one can only achieve: 373 - 273 ----------- = 26.8% efficiency 373 A typical steam turbine in a power plant operates between 500 degrees C and 100 degrees C so it's Carnot efficiency is: 773 - 373 --------- = 52% 773 Actual efficiencies can only approach the Carnot efficiency, never exceeding it. This sorta disappointing situation for heat engines is reversed for heat pumps. That is, all heat pumps have a Carnot efficiency that exceeds 100%. It is, in fact, the reciprocal of the engine efficiency. So, if you do discover an engine that exceeds Carnot efficiency, then a free energy device can be readily built by combining said engine with an ordinary heat pump to replenish the engine's source. - Scott Little "Ex vacuo omne" EarthTech International, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Tue Oct 24 22:20:31 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA05980 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:20:29 -0700 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com (mail02.mail.aol.com [152.163.172.66]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA05966 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 1995 22:20:25 -0700 From: Coildude@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA25570 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 01:19:09 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 01:19:09 -0400 Message-ID: <951025011909_132273695@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Coral Castle, Florida Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 95-10-23 10:01:34 EDT, you write: >Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida >>>used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all >alone. "Anti-Gravity and the World Grid" has a chapter about it. Ed Leedskalnin built large stone sculpters in 1930-40's at Coral Castle in S. Florida. According to David Childress (1987) his work is still there to this day. The existance of the Earth's Bloch Wall is said to be Ed's most influential tool. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 02:54:31 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA00244 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 02:54:21 -0700 Received: from acad.suffolk.edu (acad.suffolk.edu [192.80.92.251]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA00234 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 02:54:18 -0700 From: lee02016@acad.suffolk.edu Received: by acad.suffolk.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA26317; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 05:54:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 05:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Coral Castle, Florida To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Cc: freenrg-list@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <951025011909_132273695@mail02.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > According to David Childress (1987) his work is still there to this day. The > existance of the Earth's Bloch Wall is said to be Ed's most influential tool. What's the Earth's Bloch Wall? I've read about Leedskalnin and his magnificent castle, but I've never heard about this. From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 08:49:24 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA08391 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:49:17 -0700 Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net (magicnet.magicnet.net [204.96.116.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA08376 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:49:14 -0700 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id LAA17375 for magicnet.magicnet.net!eskimo.com!freenrg-list; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:40:49 -0400 Received: from cc:Mail by irout.advantor.com id AA814646154 Wed, 25 Oct 95 11:35:54 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 11:35:54 From: "reim" Encoding: 866 Text Message-Id: <9509258146.AA814646154@irout.advantor.com> To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net Subject: Re[2]: T. T. Brown Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: That was great info on T.T. Brown. I have the audio tapes from that conference, 11 tapes in all, and I got a lot of good information from it. Do you know if/when they are having another conference? I am not sure if I have Emailed you about my research on Brown. I am trying do duplicate (somewhat) his work on high voltage caps. I am currently getting some barium titinate caps made for my research. That caps are about 10 inches in diameter and shaped like a saucer. I designed a 90 KV power supply with an adjustable pule rate and wave form. I hoping that the biefield-brown effect is frequency related. I would like to find out how I can get a copy of Brown's work. Also is there a summary of the patients you listed on the NET? Bob Reim Orlando FL From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 06:37:40 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA11326 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:37:33 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA11320 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:37:31 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id GAA11797; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:37:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:37:30 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Common sense physics vs conventional physics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 24 Oct 1995, Scott Becker wrote: > Had I been rooted better in conventional physics in school > perhaps I'd not have stumbled across some anomolies in the basic > physics concepts. > > These are very basic but quickly lead to: > Energy is not conserved. ... > Second > If we take the rod all by itself at 72 deg and place weight > on it or pull on it the temperature will not change. Unless > we pull or push so hard that the bar deforms in which case > the temperature will rise a bit. However there is no physical > stress that can be applied that will cause the temperature > to drop. Likewise the specific heat capacity of the bar > does not change at all with changes in stress. This is common > sense and can be easily verified. Very interesting observations. But I wonder, if a rod is compressed (in all directions, not just lengthwise) won't it heat up? Gases do so when compressed, and I'd predict that a metal bar would too. If so, then I would also expect this elevated temperature to instantly vanish when the pressure was removed, just like with gases. And I'd expect the rod to cool down if the pressure was more than removed, if it was made negative (hard to do, it requires pulling in all directions, not just lengthwise) Something similar: stretch a rubber band, it heats up. You can feel this if you hold it in your lips while stretching. And, if you stretch it and let it return to room temp, it will *cool down* when released. People have build simple engines from rubber bands (one in an ancient Popular Science resembled a bicycle wheel with rubber bands for spokes, and it turned a sun shade. It was solar powered) .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 07:37:20 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA24042 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:37:18 -0700 Received: from matrix.eden.com (root@matrix.eden.com [199.171.21.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA24008 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:37:14 -0700 Received: from net-1-158.austin.eden.com (net-1-158.austin.eden.com [199.171.21.158]) by matrix.eden.com (8.6.12/8.6.12.1) with SMTP id JAA04502 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:37:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:37:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199510251437.JAA04502@matrix.eden.com> X-Sender: little@eden.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: little@eden.com (Scott Little) Subject: Re: Common sense physics vs conventional physics X-Mailer: Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 06:37 AM 10/25/95, BillB wrote: >Very interesting observations. But I wonder, if a rod is compressed (in >all directions, not just lengthwise) won't it heat up? Gases do so >when compressed, and I'd predict that a metal bar would too. This is certainly correct, Bill. You can't expect to extract energy from an expanding metal rod without actually removing the energy from the rod...i.e. cooling it. Hmmm! are we on to a new refridgerator technology? Scott Little EarthTech International, Inc. 4030 Braker Lane West Austin TX 78759 USA 512-346-3848 (voice) 512-346-3017 (FAX) little@eden.com (email) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 09:41:43 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA19025 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:41:40 -0700 Received: from escape.com (escape.com [198.6.71.10]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA19018 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:41:37 -0700 Received: (from chope@localhost) by escape.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA17483 for freenrg-list@eskimo.com; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:25:33 -0400 From: Charles Hope Message-Id: <199510251625.MAA17483@escape.com> Subject: Re: T. T. Brown To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:25:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Bob Paddock" at Oct 24, 95 08:24:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1457 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > > In article <199510221841.OAA01402@escape.com>, you wrote: > > > >Bill Moore is another author whose books are widely available as well. > > > >I will send Vallee's Philly debunking to whomever asks. > > I'm asking. :-) I figured someone would, so I set about looking for that file as soon as I mentioned it. I wouldn't mind reading it again myself. Now I can't find it! Yes, I hate when this happens too. I'll look through my archives in a few days, but after that I'll have to ask if some kind soul on one of the UFO newsgroups might have a copy lying around. There's a chance it's on the web somewhere. I assume it was originally published in a ufo journal. It was written within the past two years. So perhaps over the next few days, we might try searching the web for it. > > I live next to the "Reno Franklin" sign that is discussed > in Moore's P.E. book. > > I can tell you *I* don't hold Moore in high regard, he owes > me money! :-( > He owed me money (goods, actually) for several years. I only got ownership of what was due me by providing him with some information at the same time. Try that, and thereafter consider yourself wiser. > He also made the comment, referring to his Philly book "some day > I'll have to go back and read what I wrote". Duh... Lost all respect > for any thing he did after that. > And then there's MJ-12, and there's Bennewitz, and there's in 1990 admission, and on and on. Charles From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 23:52:55 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA26636 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:19:04 -0700 Received: from sashimi.wwa.com (root@sashimi.wwa.com [198.49.174.1]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA26606 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:18:59 -0700 Received: by sashimi.wwa.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0t89Td-001VyiC; Wed, 25 Oct 95 12:18 CDT Message-Id: From: robert@wwa.com (Robert Stirniman ) Subject: Open Letter to Dr LaViolette To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:18:56 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9509238144.AA814472055@irout.advantor.com> from "reim" at Oct 23, 95 11:14:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4852 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Background Information: About six weeks ago I posted an article and article entitled, "The US Antigravity Squadron" to one of the usenet newsgroups. The article was written by Dr Paul LaViolette, and discusses in detail the use of electrogravitics and anti-gravity technology in the B-2 Stealth Bomber. The article by Dr LaViolette appears as a chapter in the book "Electrogravitic Systems: Reports on a New Propulsion Technology", edited by Tom Valone, and published by Integrity Research Institute. Anyone who would like to receive more information about this book, as well as a long list (210 Kbytes as of October 20) of other references and information about electrogravitics and anti-gravity, please send an email request to: robert@wwa.com I posted Dr LaViolette's article in a public forum, without regard to copyright law. Two days ago, I received an angry email message from Dr LaViolette concerning copyright violations. ==================================================================== Open Letter to Dr LaViolette (gravity@aol.com) Dear Dr LaViolette, I apologize for causing you bad feelings, and regret posting the article "The US Antigravity Squadron" on a public forum. I gave no thought whatsoever to copyright issues, and frankly was of a mind that this article probably originated with you or your publisher for purposes of publicity. It is obvious now that this is not true, and in any case I should have verified this with you before posting. Thoughtless is as thoughtless does. I am most sorry, as well as surprised, to hear that you have only sold one copy of this book in the last three months. The book contains an incredible amount of "real" information, especially compared with some other books in this field which sell better. Many people are hungry for this kind of information. Based on your letter, it is evident that you believe that low sales volume is due in large part to copyright violations, and in this belief your anger is understandable. In my opinion, there is a much more basic reason why your book is not selling well. It has not been marketed -- apparently not at all. Have you visited any large retail book distributors lately, such as: Barnes and Noble, Borders, or the like? They offer a large variety of books, in both the science/physics and UFO/paranormal sections of their stores. You can find books on-the-shelf, available for purchase, such as: "The Anti-Gravity Handbook", and books about the lost inventions of Tesla, etc. I have personally seen people buy these books, and these stores generally only keep things on the shelf which will move with the public. I don't want to make light of books such as "The Anti-Gravity Handbook" -- and don't know if you've ever seen it, but in my opinion it is trite, and like most of the books which are readily available about this subject, it contains very little in the way of substantive information. Compared to the books that are available in the stores, your book stands out as authentic and meaningful. Of course, this assumes that people might ever have the opportunity to see it, and select it for purchase. The fact is this -- your book is not available in retail stores, and furthermore retail stores can not order your book even if requested by a customer, because it is also not available at any large wholesale warehouse locations. I have looked. You like math. Here's a simple equation about book marketing. No Publicity + No Distribution = No Sales Your book required substantial effort and attention to detail, and it is understandable that you could become frustrated and angry about the failure to develop significant sales. I suggest you direct your anger at those responsible for marketing and distributing your work. I also suggest that it is possible that your work is being intentionally suppressed from public view, and that you take a hard look in the direction of the jackals who have set your mind on my trail, as a likely faction that does not really want people to see your book. I respect your work -- it's great, and I wish only the best for you. If you desire to sue me, it's fine by me. You would have to get in a long line to try to collect anything, but a lawsuit could provide you substantial benefit in the way of publicity, provided that you ever succeed in getting your book into any distribution channels. But, here's my guess -- the same folks who are stirring you up to attack me, will relatively quickly develop the opinion that a real lawsuit is "not a good idea". Political suppression of scientific knowledge retards human advancement. I will continue whenever possible to promote interest in your book, as well as other information about electrogravitics and anti-gravity technology. Regards, Robert Stirniman (robert@wwa.com) From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 23:36:11 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA27823 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:22:36 -0700 Received: from frame.frame.com (frame.frame.com [192.111.118.7]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA27797 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:22:29 -0700 Received: from midas ([192.9.203.92]) by frame.frame.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA27407; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:25:09 -0700 Received: from applepie.corp.frame.com by midas (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11155; Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:25:07 PDT Received: from dayglow.corp.frame.com.frame by applepie.corp.frame.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10583; Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:24:58 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:24:58 PDT From: tgirard@frame.com (Timothy Girard) Message-Id: <9510251724.AA10583@applepie.corp.frame.com> To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net, freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: T. T. Brown Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm going to be making a run to the Sunnyvale Patent office next week (1st of Nov or there abouts). I'm doing research on the Meyers hydrogen generator. However, with all this TT Brown info flying around, I can't resist checking out the patents. If any on e is interested, I will gladly send copies. Send me a line. You'll have to cover postage (I'll know how much when I get the patents). Sorry I don't have a scanner so I can't make Soft Copies. -T > From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 09:27:40 1995 > Encoding: 866 Text > To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net > Subject: Re[2]: T. T. Brown > Sender: owner-freenrg-list@eskimo.com > Reply-To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com > Content-Length: 851 > X-Lines: 17 > > > That was great info on T.T. Brown. I have the audio tapes from that > conference, 11 tapes in all, and I got a lot of good information from > it. Do you know if/when they are having another conference? > > I am not sure if I have Emailed you about my research on Brown. I am > trying do duplicate (somewhat) his work on high voltage caps. I am > currently getting some barium titinate caps made for my research. > That caps are about 10 inches in diameter and shaped like a saucer. I > designed a 90 KV power supply with an adjustable pule rate and wave > form. I hoping that the biefield-brown effect is frequency related. > > I would like to find out how I can get a copy of Brown's work. Also is > there a summary of the patients you listed on the NET? > > Bob Reim > Orlando FL > From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 23:36:13 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA27805 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:22:32 -0700 Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net (magicnet.magicnet.net [204.96.116.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA27782 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:22:26 -0700 Received: from frame.frame.com (frame.frame.com [192.111.118.7]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA23634 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 13:22:23 -0400 Received: from midas ([192.9.203.92]) by frame.frame.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA27407; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:25:09 -0700 Received: from applepie.corp.frame.com by midas (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11155; Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:25:07 PDT Received: from dayglow.corp.frame.com.frame by applepie.corp.frame.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10583; Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:24:58 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 10:24:58 PDT From: tgirard@frame.com (Timothy Girard) Message-Id: <9510251724.AA10583@applepie.corp.frame.com> To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net, freenrg-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: T. T. Brown Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I'm going to be making a run to the Sunnyvale Patent office next week (1st of Nov or there abouts). I'm doing research on the Meyers hydrogen generator. However, with all this TT Brown info flying around, I can't resist checking out the patents. If any on e is interested, I will gladly send copies. Send me a line. You'll have to cover postage (I'll know how much when I get the patents). Sorry I don't have a scanner so I can't make Soft Copies. -T > From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 09:27:40 1995 > Encoding: 866 Text > To: eskimo.com!freenrg-list@magicnet.magicnet.net > Subject: Re[2]: T. T. Brown > Sender: owner-freenrg-list@eskimo.com > Reply-To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com > Content-Length: 851 > X-Lines: 17 > > > That was great info on T.T. Brown. I have the audio tapes from that > conference, 11 tapes in all, and I got a lot of good information from > it. Do you know if/when they are having another conference? > > I am not sure if I have Emailed you about my research on Brown. I am > trying do duplicate (somewhat) his work on high voltage caps. I am > currently getting some barium titinate caps made for my research. > That caps are about 10 inches in diameter and shaped like a saucer. I > designed a 90 KV power supply with an adjustable pule rate and wave > form. I hoping that the biefield-brown effect is frequency related. > > I would like to find out how I can get a copy of Brown's work. Also is > there a summary of the patients you listed on the NET? > > Bob Reim > Orlando FL > From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 23:32:20 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA07009 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:23:39 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA06985 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:23:36 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id OAA29040; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:23:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:23:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: TVQ group scalar devices? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Has anyone here been involved with the "TVQ" group in Boston? They were involved in a flamewar on Keelynet in 1991 or so, and claimed to have built numerous sucessful scalar experimental devices. I spoke recently to Bob Shannon of TVQ, who pointed out that one of their long-ago letters on Keelynet had instructions for a simple scalar experiment. Is anyone here familiar with this "optoisolator mystery noise" experiment? .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 14:36:47 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA11040 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:35:42 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA11012 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:35:38 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id OAA00375; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:35:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Bang? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Here's an interesting article from last year. No one else has reported such things. I wonder how this guy mangaged to do this? .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories From: elf@menageri.demon.co.uk (Elf) Subject: micro-cavitation fusion Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 00:19:10 +0000 Micro-cavitation fusion, or luke-warm fusion Nobody knows WHY cold nuclear fusion works, or even if it does. \conventional theroy does not cover it, and the ones invented to explain it do not work. O.k, fine, so heres one that does, maybe. I have a friend who does reaserch for the MOD, on subs etc. He showed me a paper on cavitation. It was also mentioned on Tomorrows world apperently. Cavitation is when you get bubbles forming in a violently stirred liquid, for those who don't know. This effect occurs around submarine propellors at depths of about 300ft or lower. Ie at pressures of 10atms. It can also me produced at1atms (up here at the surface), by pushing a ultrasound frequency into a sealed container of liquid. Water is best. This has been know for ages, since 1952. What is new is that these bubbles glow in the dark. Dimly blue. Each bubble is aprox 1 to 3 microns in diameter, it depends on the wavelength. What my friend was doing was studying the energy inside them, with a veiw to preventing it, (he didn't say why, MOD stuff). It turns out that the bubbles glow becuase the energys involved produce a plasma inside as they collapse. one that is at temp/pressures equal or greater to that at the core of the sun ! Reaserch into the experimental set-ups used in cold-fusion show that most used magnetic stirrers which produce small amounts of ultrasound, and some did not. I made a small set-up using a glass tube, and a ultrasound transducer. The end cap was positivly charged to attract free electrons. The inital run with plain water heated it no more than expected, ie slightly less energy out than in. The next using heavy water, plus dissolved deuterium gas was a little more dramatic. The equipment was activated in one second bursts, in case of radiation production. In aprox 1/10 of a second enough energy was liberated to vapourise the water, causing a large steam explostion. also sufficent light to blind me temporally. There was no detectable radiation. upon later thought I theroised that the oxygen atoms wheer acting as neutron absorbers, and the surrounding water coped with the gamma. Since I am currently in finacial dire striats, would anyone care to follow up on this. It is to important to be forgotten due to accident. I suggest a modified internal combustion engine would work. The air intake converted to a water intake, with the fuel injector acting as a gasious deuterium injector. The spark-plug would be replaced with an ultra-sound transducer (speaker). Basically a fusion powered steam engine. N.B, conventional gas plasma theories of fusion still apply, its how the plasma is created thats weird ! -- ############################################################################# # # _________ __ _________ # # Minds are like Parachutes: # | ______| | | | ______| # # # | |____ | | | |____ # # They must be OPEN # | ____| | | | ____| # # # | |______ | |____ | | # # to operate! # |_________| |_______| |__| # # # elf@menageri.demon.co.uk # ############################################################################# From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Wed Oct 25 14:51:14 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA16623 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:51:13 -0700 Received: from phoenix.net (root@phoenix.phoenix.net [199.3.232.2]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA16609 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:51:10 -0700 Received: from rumgod.phoenix.net (dial10.phoenix.net [199.3.234.41]) by phoenix.net (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA24778 for ; Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:51:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 16:51:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199510252151.QAA24778@phoenix.net> X-Sender: rumgod@phoenix.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com From: rumgod@phoenix.net (A J Interests, Inc) Subject: Re: Coral Castle, Florida Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >In a message dated 95-10-23 10:01:34 EDT, you write: > >>Does anyone have any info any the magnetic tools(?) that fellow in Florida >>>>used to build the limestone castle? Supposedly he moved tons of rock all >>alone. > >"Anti-Gravity and the World Grid" has a chapter about it. Ed Leedskalnin >built large stone sculpters in 1930-40's at Coral Castle in S. Florida. >According to David Childress (1987) his work is still there to this day. The >existance of the Earth's Bloch Wall is said to be Ed's most influential tool. > > Hi, Could anyone explain the "Earth's Bloch Wall" I've never heard that term before. I am interested in the Coroal Castle work. Thanks, Art From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Thu Oct 26 07:35:39 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA09235 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 07:35:34 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA09201 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 07:35:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199510261435.HAA09201@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 08:40:32 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: T. T. Brown Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:25 PM 10/25/95 -0400, you wrote: > > Now I can't find it! If it was email, and if you are using Eudora, you can do a search for a keyword through all of your mailboxes. __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From HANSEN35@delphi.com Thu Oct 26 12:37:50 1995 Received: from bos1d.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1d.delphi.com [192.80.63.4]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA08297 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 12:37:49 -0700 From: HANSEN35@delphi.com Received: from delphi.com by delphi.com (PMDF V5.0-5 #10880) id <01HWWGB4GL9K9N3Y40@delphi.com> for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 15:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Irving Langmuir Tube To: bilb@eskimo.com Message-id: <01HWWGB4GL9M9N3Y40@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: IN%"bilb@eskimo.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Status: RO X-Status: Thank you...I'll look it up. Steve From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 05:29:58 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA05780 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 19:20:13 -0700 Received: from metronet.com (Usdf@mail.metronet.com [192.245.137.6]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA05722 for ; Thu, 26 Oct 1995 19:20:06 -0700 Received: by metronet.com id AA03681 (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for eskimo.com!freenrg-list); Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:19:54 -0400 Received: from SDF.LONESTAR.ORG with uucp; Thu, 26 Oct 95 21:04:44 Received: by SDF.LONESTAR.ORG (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0t8e9u-00009rC; Thu, 26 Oct 95 21:04 CDT Message-Id: From: chuck@sdf.lonestar.org (Chuck Knight) Subject: Re: Devices? To: freenrg-list@eskimo.com Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:04:35 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <24238441FA@warp.msoe.edu> from "GEISER IAN R" at Oct 23, 95 02:55:34 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 399 Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A > hey i'm currently working on the "gravity capacitor." it looks like > a take off of a townsend/brown device. if any one has any > information on it i would like it. I'm interested in this capacitor, too. By "working" on it, do you mean that you're building one? If so, I'm extremely interested in your results...ie, *are* there any positive results, like a thrust? -- Chuck Knight From billb@mail.eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 07:52:17 1995 Received: from eskimo.com (billb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA22547 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 07:52:17 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id HAA06590; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 07:52:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 07:52:16 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: William Beaty Subject: Taos Hum unasked question (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 09 Oct 95 11:46:25 EDT From: Sara T. Allen <72164.3606@compuserve.com> To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Taos Hum unasked question (fwd) Bill, The Taos hum does not emanate from Taos. It is heard all over the US and other parts of the world. I may leave Taos and not here it in Kansas for instance, but then hear it again as I get closer to Michigan. I have had reports from virtually every state. The clusters though seem to be in the Pacific Northwest, the North Central Midwest and the Southwest. There are scattered reports from New England also. Sara E-mail from: Sara T. Allen, 09-Oct-1995 From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 09:56:47 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA28944 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:56:03 -0700 Received: from 204.122.16.4 (ghawk@tia1.eskimo.com [204.122.16.40]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA28910 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:55:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199510271655.JAA28910@mail.eskimo.com> X-Sender: ghawk@mail.eskimo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 10:11:34 -0700 To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com From: Gary Hawkins Subject: Re: Something called Alpha Torque Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Does anyone know where to find the following book?.... >.... Peter Graneu had a new book out about his >Alpha Torque work. The Electro Dynamics of Metals. Also, someone told me yesterday that a company will let you send something made of metal and they will toughen it up for you. A lot of people are apparently sending Saxaphones, Trombones etc. (just repeating what I was told, don't know why they need to be tough, maybe sound better.) One guy claims to be still using the same razor blade after a couple of months and it's still sharp. They dip the item in liquid helium. Apparently after warming back up the molecular bond is better. Maybe that's how the Germans made their steel. We were somewhat disconcerted at the way our shells would bounce right off of their panzer tanks, and their secret didn't seem to make it out afterward. I believe that fact about their steel is relatively well known among old vets. Gary __________________________________________________ Horizon Technology -- Tomorrow's Technology Today http://www.eskimo.com/~ghawk/ Seattle, WA From freenrg-list-owner@eskimo.com Fri Oct 27 12:32:46 1995 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA18229 for freenrg-list-outgoing; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:32:42 -0700 Received: from eskimo.com (bilb@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA18212 for ; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:32:38 -0700 Received: by eskimo.com (8.6.12) id MAA06762; Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:32:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:32:34 -0700 (PDT) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com cc: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Subject: Re: Devices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: freenrg-list@mail.eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 26 Oct 1995, Chuck Knight wrote: > > hey i'm currently working on the "gravity capacitor." it looks like > > a take off of a townsend/brown device. if any one has any > > information on it i would like it. > > I'm interested in this capacitor, too. By "working" on it, do you mean > that you're building one? If so, I'm extremely interested in your > results...ie, *are* there any positive results, like a thrust? I have a stack of about 6" thick of waxpaper squares down in my junk collection, all of which have a 2" hole punched through the center. Anyone interested in using them? First message wins. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page