From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  1 05:36:16 2000
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: HydroPower 2000
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To: Vortex

Based on the Rash Assumption that Light Lepton Pairs are attached to some water molecules,
and the Plethora of reports on running ICEs on water, one might speculate that 0.4 ev and/or
54.4 ev is released when the LL Pairs attached to the molecules Annihilate.

So far there are several instances where experiments indicate that this is occurring:

Electrolysis Cells;   F&P Cell,  Browns Gas Cell, On-Board Hydrogen Producers
                              and the "Lawnmower Man" microwaved water engine.

Mechanical Agitation Devices (MAD):   Huffman-Griggs-Potapov  Pumps

Enhanced Dieseling on Sea Water Vapor:   Huffman

For 0.4 ev Annihilation energy of an LL pair on  a host water molecule; (-)H2O(+)
1.56E19 such molecules/watt  or roughly 0.5 milligrams/watt (0.5 grams/kilowatt)
of such composite entities are required.

For 54.4 ev Annihilation energy of an LL pair on a host water molecule roughly
3.6 micrograms/watt or 3.6 milligrams/kilowatt is required.

If the "Composite" (-)H2O(+) is acting as a dissolved gas in H2O, separation
can be effected with modest energy input using the above methods or such.

Regards,  Frederick  


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  1 12:04:57 2000
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
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Subject: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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I'm curious.  How much money did Greg Watson score with his SMOT offer? 
Did ANYBODY obtain refunds?  And for those who lost money, did you ever
ask for a refund?  (Not that this makes much difference, since a person of
any integrity would have supplied a refund, asked or not.) 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  1 12:37:30 2000
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Subject: USE OF FREENRG-L FOR "SELF-PROMOTION"
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On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, David Rosignoli wrote:

> I don't have a lot of time to scan the magazines, the web,
> newsgroups,... to find all the weird science devices. In fact, one
> reason I subscribe to this list is to stay abreast of what currently
> exists in this 'field'. True, it is a hobbyist forum. However, in this
> case these devices are so novel, and potentially ground-breaking in one
> way or another, spreading useful advertising is warranted. 

No, not "advertizing", but SELF-PROMOTION.  If you tell me about the SAS
"Amateur Scientist" CD, that's fine.  However, if the marketer for SAS
comes here and starts pushing that CD, it's self-promotion.  That person
is using FREENRG-L as an advertizing channel without our permission, and
without supporting this service by paying for ad-space.  It's a type of
dishonesty, even theft.  (Not that I'm ever going to start selling
ad-space here!)


In other words, suppose we say it OK to use FREENRG-L to tell about
products, but only if the person sending the message makes no profits by
it? That is typical nettique standards.  I'd like to make it a "LAW" here. 

If I tell you where to get ceramic magnets, that is not self-promotion. 
If Greg Watson sells fully-built "SMOT" devices, then that *IS*
self-promotion.  If he never delievers, nor offers refunds, then that is
fraud besides. 

If I tell you where to get tin foil, that is not self-promotion.  If I
offer to sell you plans for a secret FE device which can power your home
or car, then that is self-promotion.  If those plans are fake, and no such
device has ever been built nor has ever powered even a flashlight bulb,
then that is fraud besides. 

My intention is to eliminate FREENRG-L as a channel for greed and FE
fraud.  Or as the sellers of fraudulent FE plans and devices might say,
eliminate it as an "opportunity for making a living."  If their devices
are real, tell us how to make one and we will verify it.  Or go submit it
to Scott Little for professional analysis.  Or go out and win several
thousand dollars from the various "Free Energy Prize"  organizations.  But
do not try to extract money from the wallets of "gullible marks" on 
FREENRG-L.

Since a F/E device might be real, I don't want to keep everyone from
knowning about it.  But if the INVENTOR of that device wants to SELL it to
us, without first proving that his claim is true, and while not giving
refunds to angry customers, then that is a VERY different situation. 


For more on fraudulent F/E plans sales, see:

  F/E  F.A.Q.:    "But PLANS for working F/E devices are for sale!"

  http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/fefaq.html#plans



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  1 18:33:44 2000
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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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William Beaty wrote:
> 
> I'm curious.  How much money did Greg Watson score with his SMOT offer?
> Did ANYBODY obtain refunds?  And for those who lost money, did you ever
> ask for a refund?  

Hi Bill,

I didn't ask for a refund (and didn't get one);
but I don't think the Greg Watson saga is over.

Jack Smith

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  1 18:40:35 2000
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Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:37:07 -0600
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From: Scott Little <little earthtech.org>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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At 12:03 PM 4/1/2000 -0800, William Beaty wrote:

>I'm curious.  How much money did Greg Watson score with his SMOT offer? 

He got $150 from us.  He's still got it.   We didn't ask for it back...but Hal
has "on occasion emailed him and asked what was happening, thinking that 
now that he is out of the limelight he might admit his problems to a friendly 
inquiring voice from the past without pressure of asking for $$ back.  No 
response."



Scott Little
EarthTech International, Inc.
4030 Braker Lane West, Suite 300
Austin TX 78759
512-342-2185
512-346-3017 (FAX)
http://www.earthtech.org

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  3 04:22:52 2000
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From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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Hi All,
         Yes I applied for a refund but heard nothing further. I recently
sent a "reminder" but it got returned as an unrecognised email address.
Greg's "home page" is also currently unavailable. Friends I have in Oz, that
he would probably reimburse if they called round, unfortunately live up the
other end of the country, so, for the time being, he can sit on my money. I
can afford to wait but I won't forget.

Nick Palmer  (ex) co-ordinator Friends of the Earth (Jersey)


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Cc: <IronEagle ainop.com>, <Ron.Brodzinski@pnl.gov>
Subject: Re: HydroPower 2000
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 07:48:35 -0700
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To: Vortex

Since the Ionization Energies of  the Alkali Metals are:

Li,    5.39 ev
Na,  5.14 ev
K,    4.34 ev
Rb,  4.18 ev

and the Dissociation Energy of Hydrogen:  H2 + 4.53 ev --->   2 H  it seems reasonable
that K or Rb would be more likely to show CF/OU effects.

IF water is holding Light Leptons (Positrinos-Negatrinos): (+)H2O(-) the Alkali Ions
can Sequester the Negatrino:

1,  (K+) + Negatrino --->  K* + 4.34 ev

2,  K* + H ---> H* + K + (13.6 - 4.34 ev) + EUV to X-ray Energy

3,  H* + D --->  He3 + Negatrino +  ~ 4.0  Mev

or D* + D --->  He4 + Negatrino + ~ 23.0   Mev

IOW, the Negatrino is acting as a Catalyst, somewhat like Muon Catalyzed Fusion.

Eventually the Negatrino will Annihilate with a Positrino, releasing 0.4 ev or 54.4 ev,
and end it's cycle.

The "odd man out" Electron from the Original K, balances the Charge of the Positrino,
and between them and other atoms, they could form some interesting "New" Compounds.

Regards,    Frederick




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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:48:12 -0700
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Hi Nick,

Greg had stated that he personally demonstrated a working model of the RMOG
to you. I'll have to root around in my files a bit to find it, but I
remember this clearly. Since it is pretty obvious at this point that these
projects are not going to go anywhere, maybe you could enlighten us as to
whether they worked, or at least whether he did in fact demonstrate them to
you. I am very interested in doing a RMOG-type project as it fits with a
number of other ideas and patents out there, for instance the James German
patent

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05191258__

 As far as I know, you are the ONE person who can resolve the issue at this
point.
Thanks for the information in advance!

Fred
>
>
> Hi All,
>          Yes I applied for a refund but heard nothing further. I recently
> sent a "reminder" but it got returned as an unrecognised email address.
> Greg's "home page" is also currently unavailable. Friends I have
> in Oz, that
> he would probably reimburse if they called round, unfortunately
> live up the
> other end of the country, so, for the time being, he can sit on
> my money. I
> can afford to wait but I won't forget.
>
> Nick Palmer  (ex) co-ordinator Friends of the Earth (Jersey)
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr  3 12:38:11 2000
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:06:37 -0700
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Hi Robin and all,

> >I doubt that either Paul's or Meyer-Mace is nuclear, at least
> in the sense
> >that it is nuclear energy being converted into the electricity.
> A version of
>
> Paul told me that his device ran for about half an hour before
> they turned
> it off when it got so hot that it set fire to their work bench.
> Of course,
> this could be just inefficiency, but it seems like gamma
> radiation etc. to
> me.

Sounds more like very hot coils, but what do I know?

 Note also that the british patent mentions alpha, beta, and
> gamma rays
> explicitly, and even shields against them. None of the substances used in
> the british patent are normally radioactive, however they could become so
> with either neutron transfer or CF (H or D from the water content of the
> salts), (or perhaps due to the alteration of the properties of space
> itself?),

Yes, what I meant when I said that they were not nuclear is that the source
of the effect is not nuclear in the usual sense.

 or maybe CC

CC?

 is correct, and artificially created
> magnetotoroids in
> the inventions result in the production of neutrons which in
> turn react with
> the elements present making them radioactive.

Where is this info?
>
> >the Hubbard coil without nuclear materials -- simply a set of solenoidal
> >primary coils surrounding a single solenoidal secondary, all at
> resonance--
> >was tested in Denmark in the early 80s and was claimed to run
> at about 300
> >percent efficiency. There are a number of versions of this idea without
> >radioactives as mentioned in another post-- the Coutier, Cater,
> and Perrigo
> >devices.
>
> Perhaps the alterations to the metric have two effects, first
> altering decay
> rates, and also facilitating extraction of ZPE energy due to the
> existence
> of a non-linear interface between altered space and normal space.

I recall some work on the idea that the vacuum near heavy ions is polarized
by the high electric fields there. In torsion theory an electric field
creates a torsion field.

Is this radiation
> seen on counters
> >outside the battery?
>
> This is one of the things I never got a reply to.

It seems he may know that something fishy is going on.
>
> > If not, then how is it absorbed by copper wire and
> >steel and converted to an electric current?
>
> I think that in Paul's invention the "absorption by the copper
> wire" notion
> is a bit iffy anyway.

Definitely.

Alphas just don't have the penetrating power to get
> into the wire, or for that matter even out of the solid where they are
> formed (alphas only travel a few microns in a solid).
> They do however generate masses of energetic free electrons in the solid,
> which could interact with the all pervasive magnetic field.
> (Molecular level MHD?)

Not a bad idea, since a metal is basically an electron gas or plasma. The
Hall effect being a case in point...I know all plasma effects can be done
in metal at very low temperatures where the mean free path of the electrons
is high enough.
>
> >Why would particles at right
> >angles to the current flow add to it? And if the particles do
> interact with
> >the current through some Lorentz effect, then why is it necessary to use
> >Brown and Hubbard's odd coil geometry?
>
> Didn't Robert say that such an odd geometry resulted in a much higher
> permeability than normal?

More field strength maybe, I don't see how the air permeability is going to
be changed by fields going through it.
I'm still thinking about that one.

 Wouldn't that also imply a stronger
> field for the
> same current?

Right.
>
> >It seems that single or multiple
> >coils wound directly around the sample would work better.
>
> If it were just a matter of field intensity perhaps yes, but a "coil of
> coils" does have the double geometry that may be required to alter the
> properties of the metric, and bring about the "magic".

Yes, I agree, I was only referring to the rationale that Brown was using. I
t doesn't require the coil of coils geometry.
>
> >In fact this
> >arrangement is used in the Burke patents listed in the Brown US patent.
> >Burke shows in his patent that a direct current from a battery through a
> >coil around a radioactive rod is increased. There is no
> oscillation. He is
> >more straightforward than Brown in his patents in saying he
> doesn't know why
> >it works. I don't think we do either.
>
> Well I'm sure I don't know, but I do have some suspicions. If
> only I had the
> where with all to try them out. Access to a good nuclear lab
> would be ideal
> :).

I'm more interested in the non-nuclear "coil of coils". Easier to try, and
if it doesn't work it eliminates a couple of theories.

Regards,
Fred
>

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:28:06 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:06:37 -0700, Fred Epps wrote:
[snip]
> or maybe CC
>
>CC?

Charles Cagle. 

>
> is correct, and artificially created
>> magnetotoroids in
>> the inventions result in the production of neutrons which in
>> turn react with
>> the elements present making them radioactive.
>
>Where is this info?

http://www.singtech.com/index.html 
[snip]
>It seems he may know that something fishy is going on.

I'm sure he knows it, and I think he was warned off, which may be why he has
concentrated on nuclear waste remediation by more conventional physics.
[snip]
>I'm more interested in the non-nuclear "coil of coils". Easier to try, and
>if it doesn't work it eliminates a couple of theories.
[snip]
I have a suspicion that the "coil of coils" at best works as an amplifier.
That means that you may need to also inject energy from a more conventional
source as well. However perhaps that conventional source can be something as
simple as a radio antenna.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:36:50 -0700
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Hi Robin and all,
>
> http://www.singtech.com/index.html

Oh, OK.


> [snip]
> >It seems he may know that something fishy is going on.
>
> I'm sure he knows it, and I think he was warned off, which may
> be why he has
> concentrated on nuclear waste remediation by more conventional physics.

Yes, now that I think of it, he did claim suppression of some of his work.
What suppression means when you are still here and promoting your stuff, I
could never figure out. Maybe it was just a little too out there for him.

> [snip]
> >I'm more interested in the non-nuclear "coil of coils". Easier
> to try, and
> >if it doesn't work it eliminates a couple of theories.

> [snip]
> I have a suspicion that the "coil of coils" at best works as an
> amplifier.
> That means that you may need to also inject energy from a more
> conventional
> source as well. However perhaps that conventional source can be
> something as
> simple as a radio antenna.

Hmm, ok, I was just thinking about taking some big nails and winding turns
on them and wrapping them around a central nail coil. Then driving the
outer coils with AC and seeing what sort of output the center one had. To
see if there is anything funny there..

Regards,
Fred
>

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:48:39 +1000
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On Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:36:50 -0700, Fred Epps wrote:
[snip]
>Hmm, ok, I was just thinking about taking some big nails and winding turns
>on them and wrapping them around a central nail coil. Then driving the
>outer coils with AC and seeing what sort of output the center one had. To
>see if there is anything funny there..
>
>Regards,
>Fred
>>
You might also try it the other way around.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:50:39 -0700
From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
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Fred Epps wrote:
> > Didn't Robert say that such an odd geometry resulted in a much higher
> > permeability than normal?
> 
> More field strength maybe, I don't see how the air permeability 
> is going to be changed by fields going through it.
> I'm still thinking about that one.

Yeh me too. Still trying to sort it out. Have simplified the 
problem in the magnetic dual to looking at the fields
inside a cylindrical shell of magnetic material in which 
the shell has an equal and opposite amount of ampere turns
(coils) around the outer diameter and the inner diameter. 

This apparently simple problem gets very messy. First shot 
is take the core out and look at the field produced in the
center by the two coils, one inside the other, with a substantial 
gap between them. The fields of a single solenoid coil, of any 
reasonable length relative to diameter, our solved in all the EM 
texts. End effects are second order and generally neglected. Or 
if end effects are included, the exact solution is only presented 
along the center axis of the coil. Problem is, when you take two 
of these coils with equal and opposite ampere turns, and look at 
the fields inside the inner coil -- the normal solenoidal field 
solution is largely cancelled, and the only thing left is the 
end effects. It is hard to find an EM text with an exact solution 
of this. But still looking. Messy elliptical functions, with about 
equal significance in the radial as well as axial field components.

It gets worse when you put the core between the two coils.
The device seems to become non-reciprocal. The mutual inductance
of coil-1 to coil-2, does not appear to be the same as the mutual 
inductance of coil-2 to coil-1. There was a time when it was 
thought impossible to produce non-reciprocity in a passive 
EM device. Now it is recognized to exist in passive circuits
which include electrical transducers along with magnetic
transducers. And also well known in magnetic devices which
utilize the Faraday effect -- like microwave ferrite circulators
and isolators. Too see it in something that looks like transformer 
is peculiar. But maybe less peculiar, than suggesting that we might
be able to polarize the vacuum beyond it normal value of mu0. 
I still keep seeing this, and have been looking for some easy 
way to show it. But maybe not.

BTW, Jean-Luis has his rendition of DeAquino's device up on his
site and about ready to fire up. It has essentially the same
construct as the gravity warp capacitor -- except surrounded
by magnetic particles, and possibly incorporating inductive
as well as capacitive effects. Hope it works.

Regards,
Robert Stirniman

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:04:25 +1000
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On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:50:39 -0700, Robert Stirniman wrote:
[snip]
>inductance of coil-2 to coil-1. There was a time when it was 
>thought impossible to produce non-reciprocity in a passive 
>EM device. 
[snip]
Isn't this the electromagnetic equivalent of a violation of Newton's third
law? If so it would seem to be just what one needs to get FE.
Not only that, but converted to it's mechanical equivalent it would provide
a "space drive". Funny, that's just where we started out with the electric
rocket. Does that mean I finally understand what you are driving at? :)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 00:40:41 -0700
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Hi Robert and all,

> > > Didn't Robert say that such an odd geometry resulted in a much higher
> > > permeability than normal?
> >
> > More field strength maybe, I don't see how the air permeability
> > is going to be changed by fields going through it.
> > I'm still thinking about that one.
>
> Yeh me too. Still trying to sort it out. Have simplified the
> problem in the magnetic dual to looking at the fields
> inside a cylindrical shell of magnetic material in which
> the shell has an equal and opposite amount of ampere turns
> (coils) around the outer diameter and the inner diameter.

I can see that is going to get strange.
>
> This apparently simple problem gets very messy. First shot
> is take the core out and look at the field produced in the
> center by the two coils, one inside the other, with a substantial
> gap between them. The fields of a single solenoid coil, of any
> reasonable length relative to diameter, our solved in all the EM
> texts. End effects are second order and generally neglected. Or
> if end effects are included, the exact solution is only presented
> along the center axis of the coil. Problem is, when you take two
> of these coils with equal and opposite ampere turns, and look at
> the fields inside the inner coil -- the normal solenoidal field
> solution is largely cancelled, and the only thing left is the
> end effects. It is hard to find an EM text with an exact solution
> of this. But still looking. Messy elliptical functions, with about
> equal significance in the radial as well as axial field components.

Measurements of double wound, noninductive air coils show no or very small
detectible fields along the length and some small leakage fields at the
ends. We never thought to put a hall sensor down the inside of the tube
though...
>
> It gets worse when you put the core between the two coils.
> The device seems to become non-reciprocal. The mutual inductance
> of coil-1 to coil-2, does not appear to be the same as the mutual
> inductance of coil-2 to coil-1. There was a time when it was
> thought impossible to produce non-reciprocity in a passive
> EM device. Now it is recognized to exist in passive circuits
> which include electrical transducers along with magnetic
> transducers.

Right. For instance a magnetostrictive driver and a piezoelectric
transducer. This was done in lumped circuits in the early 50s.
It's interesting that it was proved that such a device must have a magnetic
field (unless it was a gyroscope and thus the mechanical equivalent of a
magnet).

And also well known in magnetic devices which
> utilize the Faraday effect -- like microwave ferrite circulators
> and isolators.

Yes. In order for such a device to work it must have power dissipation. A
lossless gyrator is not possible according to the things I've read.

 Too see it in something that looks like transformer
> is peculiar.

This was the whole thrust of the TEP project-- to create a nonreciprocal
transformer, then drive it in resonance to get OU.

But maybe less peculiar, than suggesting that we might
> be able to polarize the vacuum beyond it normal value of mu0.

It seems less peculiar to me. On the other hand, there are some indications
that the velocity of light is not constant-- which implies that mu0 and e0
are not constant.
On the other other hand, an intuitive look at the situation without fields
(Moon/Spencer version) would seem to show that the force between two
electrons must always be equal and opposite.
Interestingly, this is not true in the Lorentz version where the angular
momentum of space must take up the slack.


> I still keep seeing this, and have been looking for some easy
> way to show it. But maybe not.
>
> BTW, Jean-Luis has his rendition of DeAquino's device up on his
> site and about ready to fire up. It has essentially the same
> construct as the gravity warp capacitor -- except surrounded
> by magnetic particles, and possibly incorporating inductive
> as well as capacitive effects. Hope it works.

I've yet to look at that. Now that JLN has his nice pics up it will be hard
to resist.

I'm looking forward to your analysis of the concentric coils. This has been
bugging me for quite a while. I was looking at it a bit differently, with
two parallel solenoids with opposite fields, and a parallel secondary coil
between them. This is simply a transformer version of the Hooper-Monstein
experiment. However, this is reciprocal.

Regards,
Fred
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  4 10:51:24 2000
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Older quantum cryptography techniques
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Horace Heffner posted a brief APS article: 

THE FIRST ENTANGLEMENT OF FOUR PARTICLES has been experimentally achieved
by researchers at NIST (Christopher Monroe, 303-497-7415)

This describes a far-out concept that would allow ideal, secure
point-to-point communication. However, two other forms of cryptography that
depend upon quantum theory mechanisms have been developed. The first one
was proposed nearly 30 years ago by Stephen Wiesner. Unfortunately, due to
opposition from the establishment Wiesner was not able to publish a paper
or attract attention for ten years. He said most people thought he was
crazy. Apparently, they they did not understand the physics or the
crypography. Fortunately, Charles H. Bennett listened to him. He and others
later produce a remarkably simple implementation. I do not understand the
quantum theory part, but the cryptographic technique is elegant. Polarized
filters are used to transmit or intercept single photons, with each bit
either in rectilinear or diagonal polarization, mixed randomly. This is
used to send a one time pad which cannot be intercepted by a third party.
The eavesdropper would get half the bits incorrect (with the wrong
polarization), and he would corrupt the data stream in the act of
intercepting them.

Few people paid attention to this development until the mid 1980s when a
device was actually built and the process was demonstrated over a distance
of 30 cm at 10 bits/second. It is now is developed enough to allow a test
in Switzerland over a 10 kilometer fiber-optic cable, with data rates
expected to reach 20 kb/second soon. That is high enough for practical use,
especially since this channel would be used for the random number pad
alone, which could be continous, with the encoded data sent in bursts over
any other regular connection. A group at Los Alamos is trying to discover
ways a way to transmit through open air. I cannot imagine how anyone could
detect a single photon an open-air.

This development should not be confused with quantum computing, which
threatens to obsolete many existing forms of cryptography.

See:

http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~crepeau/CRYPTO/Biblio-QC.html

http://www.qubit.org/intros/crypt.html

As usual, the history of this discovery would teach a great deal to CF
scientists, if only they were inclined to learn from history.

- Jed

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Fred Epps wrote:
> Measurements of double wound, noninductive air coils show no or very small
> detectible fields along the length and some small leakage fields at the
> ends. We never thought to put a hall sensor down the inside of the tube
> though...

Fred. Not exactly the same. With a gap between the two coils (different
diameters) some of the axial field within the center coil comes from 
the space between the two coils. There are also radial fields inside the
coils from leakage effects and end-effects. With most of the axial field
cancelled by the equal and opposite ampere turns of the two coils, the 
relative magnitude of radial fields inside the coils is on the same order 
as the axial field. Interestingly, the radial flux also contributes to 
the axial flux -- radial flux feeds into axial flux which increases in 
magnitude toward the middle-LENGTH of the structure. Curl(B) =0. 
Hence, dBr/dz = dBz/dr. Radial fields are substantially larger at the 
ends of the coil, and decrease to zero at the middle length. Radial
fields also decrease to zero at r = 0. The polarity of the radial field 
is opposite at the top and bottom of the coil. The axial field has a 
substantially lesser magnitude in the center of the inside coil (r =0), 
and increases in magnitude out to the radius of the inside coil. 
The magnitude of axial flux is bowl shaped across the diameter of 
the inside coil (smallest at r = 0). Yet the axial field increases 
in magnitude from the ends of the coil toward the middle. 

Both the axial and the radial fields inside the structure increase 
substantially when the gap between the two coils is filled with 
magnetic material.

The thing is not non-inductive. Maybe more interesting to view it 
as a volume of space surrounded by inductance per length. 

Regards,
Robert

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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:51:14 -0700
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Hi Robin and all,

> >inductance of coil-2 to coil-1. There was a time when it was
> >thought impossible to produce non-reciprocity in a passive
> >EM device.

> [snip]
> Isn't this the electromagnetic equivalent of a violation of
> Newton's third
> law?

Yes.

 If so it would seem to be just what one needs to get FE.

It might be part of the solution but not all of it. For instance in an
optical form of one-way device, a light beam is sent through a polarizer
and then this polarized light is sent through a Faraday rotator ( a
dielectric with a strong magnetic field down its length). The rotator
alters the polarization angle, so that the same light if returned the way
it came would not pas through the polarized filter. However, all the energy
of the beam is transferred to its end point. Radiation is different from a
field, of course, like throwing a ball to someone is different from both
people grasping the ball and moving it back and forth. In the case of
electromagnetic induction the ball is an electron :-)

If Robert is correct and a "concentric coil" can be made at least partially
nonreciprocal then it should be possible to use it as an energy source by
putting one coil in a tank circuit. This coil will not be as loaded as it
should be for its output.
This wouldn't work as other nonreciprocal devices do though.

An electrical form of nonreciprocal device is a  hall effect plate, but the
efficiency is not high. At one point I proposed using the Corbino effect
(bulk hall effect in Bismuth) as a FE device. I still think this might
work.
In each case as you can see there is a magnetic field which in effect
rotates the incoming energy by 90 degrees.
The same thing is true in a mechanical gyroscope, and in fact the
mechanical analogue of a magnetic field is a gyroscope...

> Not only that, but converted to it's mechanical equivalent it
> would provide
> a "space drive".

...and gyroscopes have been used in space drives.

Regards,
Fred

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  4 12:26:47 2000
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Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:28:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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	I do not think the SMOT story is done.  I don't think Greg is a
rip off artist.... he surely spent more than he got.  I do think he got in
over his head with potential outside 'investors' who tied him up and
simply just does not have the cash untill he can distance himself from
them.

	Well intentioned, misunderstood, like Eric Burdon said with the
Animals.

			J

On Sun, 2 Apr 2000, Taylor J. Smith wrote:

> William Beaty wrote:
> > 
> > I'm curious.  How much money did Greg Watson score with his SMOT offer?
> > Did ANYBODY obtain refunds?  And for those who lost money, did you ever
> > ask for a refund?  
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> I didn't ask for a refund (and didn't get one);
> but I don't think the Greg Watson saga is over.
> 
> Jack Smith
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  4 13:02:13 2000
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From: "Keith Nagel" <sparky dtech-net.com>
To: "Vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:55:34 -0400
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>The thing is not non-inductive. Maybe more interesting to view it 
>as a volume of space surrounded by inductance per length. 
>Regards,
>Robert

More like a transmission line with one end shorted. All coiled up...
I agree though, the thing has inductance. And capacity.

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  4 17:27:21 2000
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From: tv juno.com
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Cc: robert skylink.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:48:01 -0700
Subject: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ?
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The following is from an excellent bibliography compiled Robert Stirniman
found at:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/3066/ANTIGRAV.HTM

Thank You Robert, there is hours of interesting reading there !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
- >
If an EM field is somehow rotated extremely fast, shouldn't all matter be
repelled from its center? -kgo. How fast do you want it rotated? It's
fairly simple to construct a system to produce rotating EM waves at
whatever rotational velocity you wish by feeding a pair of broadside
dipole arrays with quatrature phased waves. It is quite simple to
construct a system that would have a rotational velocity of C within the
uniform field area. It might also be fairly easy to do this with a
Hemholtz coil arrangement as well, but the broadside array will be much
easier to do at easily engineerable frequencies. Some really interesting
paradoxes come about when the rotational frequency is high enough so that
the rotational velocity exceeds C within the uniform field area of the
arrays or within the hemholtz coils. -- Robert Shannon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I was still in high school, I met an engineer who worked for a
contractor based at the NASA Ames Research.   He told me of just an
experiment which resulted in apparent "antigravity" effects.   He built a
cylindrical faraday chamber made out of screen within which was placed 3
vertically oriented dipoles positioned at the vertices of a triangle.  He
phased the 28 megahertz output of a Heathkit DX-100 (a tube Ham radio
transmitter ) so the dipoles produced what he thought would be a electric
field that rotated faster than the speed of light.   The proper phasing
was produced by using different lengths of coax cable to feed each of the
dipoles.  A full sized dipole at 28 Mhz (10 meter amateur band) is 16.7
feet longs.  So he may have used shortened dipoles with coils.
He told me, very matter of factly, that small objects placed within the
chamber would levitate and float around.  They would also, not
surprisingly, get hot, especially things like rubber erasers.
I have lost contact with the engineer, but reading the above brought this
back to my memory.

Tim

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  4 17:27:22 2000
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From: tv juno.com
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:10:53 -0700
Subject: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !)
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I think this compilation of ideas by Robert E. Brady is right on the
money:

http://www.eskimo.com/~rebrady/Gravity.html

I wonder if a separation of charges in a dielectric would effect the way
the
zero-point energy pushing would react with a material ?

I am thinking of Townsend Brown's Gravitors and the more recent
tinfoil space drive (gravity cpacitor).

I have always thought that Townsend Browns propulsive effects towards the
positive pole were just the ion wind
effect.  But he did claim to get thrust in a "hard" vacuum.

Has anybody experimented with this recently ?

Is it significant that there is over 1800 times as much positive charged
mass of subatomic particles than negative ?

When the electrons and protons have a common center of mass, you get the
long range Van der Waal's Force/Casmir Effect known as gravity.

What happens to the gravity force (and inertia) when the charges are
displaced ?

Assuming gravity is the pushing force of ZPE, how can we get it to push
us more in one direction than another ?

If it is not a hoax, maybe the tinfoil capacitor does this ????

If anybody tries the "gravity-capacitor" please give us a report, whether
it is positive or negative.

Tim

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  4 19:00:50 2000
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From: "David Dennard" <daviddennard hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !)
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:57:44 PDT
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Hi Tim,

He has a lot of stuff backwards but in general he is correct.  My work on 
this going back for years says gravity is the ZPE push force.  Gravity also 
causes evaportion, the speed of light, causes hot air ballons to rise, 
causes bubbles to rise, causes the lift to the air plane, causes thunder, 
causes a bullet to go further with a rifle with a longer barrel; even the 
fireball on a rocket is a bubble.

Actually, all dynamic energy of motion comes from gravity.  Heat is only a 
static event.  Anytime the void is opened gravity does everyting in its 
power to close it or move it to less density.  Heat sets density off 
balance.  Gravity balances the scales of density.  And all heat energy comes 
from mass to start off with as the latest data just in from the Chandra 
X-Ray telescope showns.  This is the cosmological constant Einstein was 
looking for after his prediction of 1.75 did not come out in the data on 
gravitation lensing.  The difference is that gravity is actually repelling 
light not bending it in.  The perceived bend is actually the backside of the 
slipstream effect.  This is all about fluid space.  This is the TOE.  All my 
work on this can be seen in this archive and aross thousands of archived 
pages on dozen of lists for years.

WE have just made history on the Whirlpower List by building the first 
natual whirlpools ever built by man in all recorded history.  You can now 
see the first known photo of a whirlpool on my new splash page.

Bubble up.
It's the fizz in the physics.

David Dennard
http://www.whirlpower.cc

>From: tv juno.com
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: freenrg-l eskimo.com
>CC: vortex-l eskimo.com
>Subject: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !)
>Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:10:53 -0700
>
>
>I think this compilation of ideas by Robert E. Brady is right on the
>money:
>
>http://www.eskimo.com/~rebrady/Gravity.html
>
>I wonder if a separation of charges in a dielectric would effect the way
>the
>zero-point energy pushing would react with a material ?
>
>I am thinking of Townsend Brown's Gravitors and the more recent
>tinfoil space drive (gravity cpacitor).
>
>I have always thought that Townsend Browns propulsive effects towards the
>positive pole were just the ion wind
>effect.  But he did claim to get thrust in a "hard" vacuum.
>
>Has anybody experimented with this recently ?
>
>Is it significant that there is over 1800 times as much positive charged
>mass of subatomic particles than negative ?
>
>When the electrons and protons have a common center of mass, you get the
>long range Van der Waal's Force/Casmir Effect known as gravity.
>
>What happens to the gravity force (and inertia) when the charges are
>displaced ?
>
>Assuming gravity is the pushing force of ZPE, how can we get it to push
>us more in one direction than another ?
>
>If it is not a hoax, maybe the tinfoil capacitor does this ????
>
>If anybody tries the "gravity-capacitor" please give us a report, whether
>it is positive or negative.
>
>Tim
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr  4 22:49:19 2000
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From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
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Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net> wrote:

> Have simplified the 
> problem in the magnetic dual to looking at the fields
> inside a cylindrical shell of magnetic material in which 
> the shell has an equal and opposite amount of ampere turns
> (coils) around the outer diameter and the inner diameter. 
[snip]

   Exact calculation is messy because of the elliptic integrals. An
approximate calculation in the limit of large length/radius is easy, however.
In this limit the magnetic field in the cylindrical shell between the two
coils is just H = nI, where n = number of turns per unit length and I =
current in the wire. This H is independent of material that might be in the
cylindrical shell. Multiply H by permeability mu to get B and by the area of
the annulus defined by the two coils to get the magnetic flux. Then L =
flux/I.

   The mutual inductance between the two coils is just the inductance of the
cylindrical volume enclosed by the innermost coil. Again in the long coil
limit, the flux density B from either coil alone with the other open is mu_o
nI, whether there is material in the cylindrical shell or not. The mutual
flux is then this B multiplied by the circular area defined by the inner
coil, and mutual inductance is m = flux/I.

   Nonreciprocity is a property of materials, not of geometry.

=====
Michael J. Schaffer



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 00:06:28 2000
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Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
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Hi Michael,
>
>   Nonreciprocity is a property of materials, not of geometry.

I'm not sure if that is true. What about a gyroscope?

Fred

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Subject: Re: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ?
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Hi Tim,

That's very interesting.. similar in some ways to one of Hooper's designs
where a rotating magnetic field was set up around a central tube and this
created a BxV force in the tube, which would move small bits of any material
down the tube.  Hooper felt that gravity was based on this motional E field
interacting between atoms.
You could consider this motional force a form of lift rather than
antigravity, not that it makes much difference.

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US03656013__

US3656013: APPARATUS FOR GENERATING MOTIONAL ELECTRIC FIELD

Apparatus for producing and demonstrating properties of motional electric
fields by means of rotating magnetic flux produced by a plurality of magnets
extending parallel with the axis of rotation, said flux of these magnets
being put into rotation about a common axis by mechanical or by electro
magnetic means.

There is also the Japanese patent described on Nils Rognerud's
electrogravity site, at:

http://www.rognerud.com/physics/html/rotating.html

MACHINE FOR ACCELERATION IN A GRAVITATIONAL FIELD

A machine comprising an electrically polarized body, and means for moving
the body in one direction to accelerate electrons, thereby generating an
accelerating force in another direction due to an interaction between the
accelerated electrons and the gravitational field.

There's a couple of other less well documented examples, as well.

Fred




>
>When I was still in high school, I met an engineer who worked for a
>contractor based at the NASA Ames Research.   He told me of just an
>experiment which resulted in apparent "antigravity" effects.   He built a
>cylindrical faraday chamber made out of screen within which was placed 3
>vertically oriented dipoles positioned at the vertices of a triangle.  He
>phased the 28 megahertz output of a Heathkit DX-100 (a tube Ham radio
>transmitter ) so the dipoles produced what he thought would be a electric
>field that rotated faster than the speed of light.   The proper phasing
>was produced by using different lengths of coax cable to feed each of the
>dipoles.  A full sized dipole at 28 Mhz (10 meter amateur band) is 16.7
>feet longs.  So he may have used shortened dipoles with coils.
>He told me, very matter of factly, that small objects placed within the
>chamber would levitate and float around.  They would also, not
>surprisingly, get hot, especially things like rubber erasers.
>I have lost contact with the engineer, but reading the above brought this
>back to my memory.
>
>Tim
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 02:35:10 2000
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From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
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Michael Schaffer wrote:
>    Exact calculation is messy because of the elliptic integrals. 

Yes messy but not that difficult. I may even be able to make
some sense out of it. It will be a snap for the tensor calculus
boys. They are all busy writing fantastic theories right now 
and don't even know about this. Some interesting experimental
results may provide them some useful directions. 

> An approximate calculation in the limit of large length/radius is easy, however.
> In this limit the magnetic field in the cylindrical shell between the two
> coils is just H = nI, where n = number of turns per unit length and I =
> current in the wire. 

Right, this is the standard simple solution. In the simple approximation
for the problem we are looking at, H = nI from the inside coil, and 
H = -nI from the outside coil. Effectively cancelling. Leaving behind
significant end effects and leakage effects. Significant radial as 
well as axial fields. Not to be neglected.

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To: Vortex

Watch Mitchell "Bones" Swartz, hit the ceiling on this one, folks.   :-)

The LLs can attach to atmospheric H2O and/or O2, and Aerosols/Pollens:

1,  (-)H2O(+) + H2O <--->  (-)H2O  +  H2O(+)

2,  (-)O2(+) + O2 <---> (-)O2  +  O2(+)

3, (-)H2O(+) + O2 <---> (-)O2 + H2O(+)

4, (-)H2O(+) + O2 <--->  O2(+) + (-)H2O

What happens to your Arthritic or Asthmatic Body, with these different combinations
when they are inhaled or deposited topically ?

Bibliography:

Jonathan M. Cherry (ed), Monograph on the Conference on Environmental Ions and
Related Biological Effects, American Institute of Medical Climatology, Philadelphia, 1982

H.E. Landsberg, "Climate and Health," in Asit K. Biswass (ed), Climate and Development
(Tycooly International Publishing LTD, 1984).

Bruce Palmer, Body Weather (Stackpole Books, 1974).

S.W.Trump, Biometeorology (Hayden & Sons, LTD, 1980).

Should one trade in that Copper Bracelet for a Nickel or Palladium, one?

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 07:48:59 2000
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From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
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At 06:08 AM 4/5/00 -0700, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>To: Vortex
>
>Watch Mitchell "Bones" Swartz, hit the ceiling on this one, folks.   :-)
>
>The LLs can attach to atmospheric H2O and/or O2, and Aerosols/Pollens:
>
>1,  (-)H2O(+) + H2O <--->  (-)H2O  +  H2O(+)
>
>2,  (-)O2(+) + O2 <---> (-)O2  +  O2(+)
>
>3, (-)H2O(+) + O2 <---> (-)O2 + H2O(+)
>
>4, (-)H2O(+) + O2 <--->  O2(+) + (-)H2O
>
>What happens to your Arthritic or Asthmatic Body, with these different
combinations
>when they are inhaled or deposited topically ?


  Fred,

  The interesting species are the electronically
activated and electrically reduced species.
  O2-  and of course singlet oxygen which is
       left off the above simplification, as
       are the dimole reactions, the Haber-Weiss
       reaction, etc. etc. 

  The states of oxygen and water are well known
and have been demonstrated for decades.

  Furthermore, the roles of these species
are both good and bad, in so many ways. 
The advanced species (with respect to the four
electron transfer which ends the reactions with
the formation of water) can make aging accelerate
and kill viruses and improve awareness, as well.
  [and hence the plethora of catalases and 
  superoxide dismutates from the cell membranes
  to the nuclei below, and the very tightly 
  controlled biochemical oxidative pathways.]
 

  Oxygen, and its electronically activated and 
electrically reduced species are well researched,
and the moeities (right down to the moloxides
with dyes) have been identified.
  Light leptons and shrinking hydrinos will
just have to match that standard of the oxygen
species, in their being identified and measured.

  Best wishes.
   Mitchell Swartz

  ===========================================

>Bibliography:
>
>Jonathan M. Cherry (ed), Monograph on the Conference on Environmental Ions
and
>Related Biological Effects, American Institute of Medical Climatology,
Philadelphia, 1982
>
>H.E. Landsberg, "Climate and Health," in Asit K. Biswass (ed), Climate and
Development
>(Tycooly International Publishing LTD, 1984).
>
>Bruce Palmer, Body Weather (Stackpole Books, 1974).
>
>S.W.Trump, Biometeorology (Hayden & Sons, LTD, 1980).
>
>Should one trade in that Copper Bracelet for a Nickel or Palladium, one?
>
>Regards,    Frederick
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 08:05:39 2000
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From: Colin Quinney <quinney inforamp.net>
Subject: Re: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ?
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Hi Fred and all,

..I notice that a novel Homopolar patent is now giving a reference to
Hooper's US03656013. 

At 12:05 PM 04/05/00 -0700, Fred wrote:
>http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US03656013__
>US3656013: APPARATUS FOR GENERATING MOTIONAL ELECTRIC FIELD
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
US5844345: Homopolar motor with dual rotors 
Hsu; John S. , Oak Ridge, TN 

       Issued/Filed Dates:  Dec. 1, 1998 / Sept. 15, 1997 
STATEMENT REGARDING FEDERALLY SPONSORED RESEARCH
This invention was made with Government support under Contract No.
DE-AC05-840R21400 awarded by the U.S. Dept. of Energy. TheGovernment has
certain rights in the invention. 

Abstract:
A homopolar motor (10) has a field rotor (15) mounted on a frame (11) for
rotation in a first rotational direction and for producing an
electromagnetic field, and an armature rotor(17) mounted for rotation on
said frame (11) within said electromagnetic field and in a second
rotational direction counter to said first rotational direction of said
field rotor (15). The two rotors (15, 17) are coupled through a 1:1 gearing
mechanism (19), so as to travel at the same speed but in opposite
directions. This doubles the output voltage and output power, as compared
to a motor in which only the armature is rotated. Several embodiments are
disclosed. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

..No claim here for OU of course, but it does claim double output power for
the same size/weight of standard HP motors/generators. The applicant was
Lockheed Martin Energy Research Corporation, Oak Ridge, TN. With higher
operating voltages, they suggest this HPM can be used as a prime mover for
automobiles, etc. 

Unfortunately, the US03656013 Hooper patent at IBM still does not have the
images, so it is difficult to compare the two types of rotating fields, but
for those who do have the Hooper patent, the comparisons might be of
interest.

Best,
Colin Quinney

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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ?
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Hi Colin and all,

I just sent you a private email about getting the Hooper patent, but I'll
repeat it here for the group:

Go to:

http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=US3656013&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD

just click on the link in the center and you will be taken to the pdf of the
patent, then you can dl it one page at a time.

Regards,
Fred


>Unfortunately, the US03656013 Hooper patent at IBM still does not have the
>images, so it is difficult to compare the two types of rotating fields, but
>for those who do have the Hooper patent, the comparisons might be of
>interest.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 10:42:14 2000
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The Dawning of Aquarius

German theoretical astrophyscist Dr. Yasmin Walter joins the Whirlpower 
Team.  The TOE is set.

"Persistance and energy conquer all things"  Ben Franklin

David Dennard
"in sackcloth and ashes"
http://www.whirlpower.cc


Yasmin,

Very well said.  Science is "super strung out" as I call it on Complexity 
arising from Chaos Theroy.  Theory heaped on theory heaped on theroy, new 
dimensions, multiple universes.

I say, enough already!  You can't build a house on a shabby foundation.  It 
just don't work like that.

Whirlpower is about the simplicity of Nature.  Schauberger saw it.  You can 
see it.  We see it.

It's everywhere!  It's everywhere!

Simplicity is on the horizontal axis.  It is the dual radial arm pattern 
seen in the spiral galaxy, the hurricane, the whirlpool.  It comes from the 
wobble, the third note of the cosmic chord.  It is The Third Wave, The 
Phoenix Wave.

This is what "shocked scientists most" in the frame dragging studies says 
Kathy Sawyer of the Washington post and put frame dragging at the "New 
Frontier" of science.  They did not expect to find Order.

And science is not expecting to Whirlpower, yet.  But it is all down on 
record, for years, across thousands of archived pages.  Before frame 
dragging was even announced, before Vera Rubin made history with her most 
remarkable find, before Perlmutter, Whirlpower was there, ignored scorned 
cursed by all sorts of big shots.

But I have prevailed.  I have fought the good fight.

"Energy and persistance conquer all things"  Ben Franklin

David Dennard
The Phoenix
"The hardest working man in dreamland"

>From: yawalter MLB.COM
>To: daviddennard hotmail.com
>Subject: [whirlpower] New list members  -Reply
>Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 10:48:53 -0400
>
>Dear List Members,
>
>From time to time I am looking for interesting and recent information
>regarding cosmology and gravity in the web. I am a theoretical
>astrophysicist in Germany.  Yesterday evening I saw your interesting
>internet page whirlpower.cc., so I decided to join the group. I am 
>interested in interdisciplinary questions since years but there are
>only a few colleagues for discussions.  Last week I gave another talk about 
>Smolin's idea regarding life in the
>cosmos. His arguments made me thinking a lot since I read the book in
>1998. His main argument is that WE are in the universe due to its
>structure and complexity, i.e., if there is an universe without structure
>and complexity, there is no chance for the evolution of life (and us).
>Thus, I am thinking the universe can be very different from what we
>currently know.
>
>This is why I joined the group.
>
>Yasmin


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Can anyone tell me an easy way to create two identical AC signals separated 
by a specific phase shift??  Sine waves preferable.

Adam
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 12:09:49 2000
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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:06:34 -0400
From: John Farrell <J_FARRELL ACAD.FANDM.EDU>
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Scott Little stated on March 31 (I think this is the correct date):

This last bit does not sound right, energetically.  The (hydrogen) atom
expands in the
n=3 state because it has higher total energy in that state, hence the
electron must be farther away from the nucleus at a less-negative potential.

>Why is the effective charge different than the nuclear charge,
>you ask?  Absorbed photons behave as surface charge, Mills replies.

If they behave BOTH as surface charge AND as energy, then it looks like
we're double-counting.  Everything works out fine if you leave the nucleus
with +1 charge and just let the absorbed photons add energy to the system,
doesn't it?

My response:

In quantum, the transition from the n =1 state to the n = 3 state is
typically described as follows.  The electron in the n = 1 state has a
spherically symmetric distribution which is a maximum at r = 0 and
decreases exponentially to zero at r = infinity;  the average value of r is
a(subH), the hydrogen radius (value is very close to the Bohr radius).  The
electron is at -13.6 eV in the n = 1 state.  If the electron absorbs 12.1
eV of energy (typically a photon), the electron goes to the n = 3 state
which has an average value of r = 9 a(0).

Now, suppose I have a book on the bottom shelf in my office and I want to
put it on the third shelf from the bottom.  Do I say that if you add energy
(m g delta h) to the book the book will go to the third shelf.  Of course
not.  I describe some physical process that actually takes the book from
shelf 1 to shelf 3:  grab the book with my arm and lift the book with my
arm; use a jack; use a pulley; or--whatever.  No matter how we do it, it
takes (m g delta h) of energy (as a minimum in this case).  It is not
double counting to say that it takes m g delta h and also to give some
physical process by which it takes place.

Mills attempts to give a physical reason why things happen--usually they
depend heavily on Maxwell's equations.  The problem is that you have to
understand some of the fundamentals of his theory before you have the
context to appreciate the explanations.  Even worse,  if you try to
understand Mills' explanations within the framework of Schrodinger's
quantum it is possible to get terribly confused or, more often, simply
think he doesn't know what he is doing.

I can help with this process, but is very difficult to do so with email (at
least for me).  Sometimes, I can give a shortcut to Mills' derivations.
For example, the main foundation of Mills' theory is that a steady state of
moving charge or matter, with or without acceleration, must not radiate
either electromagnetic or gravitational waves and that the eigenfunction of
charge/matter has to be free of Fourier components synchronous with waves
traveling at the speed of light.  This postulate was originally derived
from Maxwell's equations by Herman Haus for a moving charge (H. A. Haus,
"On the Radiation of Point Charges," Am J Phys 54 (12) 1126, December
1986),  Mills uses this postulate to derive the radial Dirac delta function
as the radial functions of the bound electron in the hydrogen atom.  He
also shows that the one-electron functions of Schrodinger should radiate.
But you don't have to follow the derivation.  A radial Dirac delta function
has **no** Fourier components--so it cannot have components synchronous
with the speed of light!  On the other hand, the Schrodinger one-electron
functions vary from r = 0 to infinity, they are reasonably complicated,
have nodes, and so on--they will have an infinite number of Fourier
components--they should radiate like blazes.  When I saw Haus' paper, I
knew that if Haus was correct, so was Mills.  The Schrodinger wavefunctions
would still be taught in my classes, but they were dead in the water.


Even with these shortcuts, however, it is somewhat tedious to get up to
speed with Mills' theory.  One big stumbling block is the notion in my
previous post: the electric field of a photon is manifested as surface
charge when absorbed by matter.  Electric fields are routinely manifested
as surface charge, but not within the context of photon absorption by
individual atoms or molecules.   It happens when a resonator cavity absorbs
microwave radiation. It happens when a photon of the right energy
"produces" an electron (-e) and a positron (+e) -- pair production.  But
let Mills propose that surface charge is produced on the electron
orbitsphere when a hydrogen atom absorbs a photon, some people go
ballistic.  Is this because they don't understand Dirac delta functions, or
photons, or electric fields?  I don't know.  They certainly understand
photons and electric fields within some context--maybe better that I do.

For the particular case in question, suppose that you could magically
reduce the nuclear charge of a proton from +1 to +1/2 (in effect this is
what the absorbed photon does).  An electron at the Bohr radius would no
longer be force balanced-- it would be in force balance at 2 * Bohr radius.
It takes no energy to get it there (as a matter of fact it loses kinetic
energy as it moves farther away).    In Mills' theory a photon with angular
frequency of 3.10 x 10^16 rad per sec (20.4 eV) would provide the surface
charge to move a *stationary* resonance cavity with charge -1 from the
hydrogen  radius (52.947 pm) to 2 * hydrogen radius.  The resonance cavity
is not stationary, however.  An electron orbitsphere (radial Dirac delta
function) at the Bohr radius, n = 1, has an angular velocity of 4.13 x
10^16 rad per sec (the general formula for the angular velocity is

omega(subn) = hbar/[m * (n * a(subH)^2]

where "m" is the electron mass and "a(subH)" is the hydrogen radius (52.947
pm).

The angular velocity of an electron orbitsphere at 2* hydrogen radius, n =
2, is 1.03 x 10^16 rad per sec (formula above).

The difference in the angular velocity of these two orbitspheres is 3.10 x
10^16 rad per sec.  [Note that this is also the angular velocity of the
photon required if the orbitsphere was stationary.]  And the kinetic energy
lost by the orbitsphere expanding from A(subH) to 2* a(subH) is 1.64 x
10^-18 J or 10.2 eV.  That is, in the actual transition from n = 1 to n =2,
the photon only requires an angular frequency of (3.10 x 10^16 rad per
sec)/2 (that is, 1/2 of the energy for a stationary orbitsphere) because
1/2 of the energy is supplied by the decrease in the kinetic energy of the
electron.  [Please note, if you are interested, the Correspondence
Principle holds for  Mills' description of the process.]

Well, I don't know if this helps.  If it doesn't, I'm sure you will let me
know.

Best regards,

John Farrell


*******************************************************************
John J. Farrell                                    email
J_FARRELL ACAD.FANDM.EDU
Chemistry Department                       Phone     717-291-3803
Franklin & Marshall College             FAX       717-291-4343
Lancaster, PA  17604    USA
*******************************************************************


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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Light Leptons and Weather-Related Ailments
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 15:42:24 -0400
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Fred writes:
>What happens to your Arthritic or Asthmatic Body, with these different
combinations
>when they are inhaled or deposited topically ?
>
>Bibliography:
>
>Jonathan M. Cherry (ed), Monograph on the Conference on Environmental Ions and
>Related Biological Effects, American Institute of Medical Climatology,
Philadelphia, 1982
>
>H.E. Landsberg, "Climate and Health," in Asit K. Biswass (ed), Climate and
Development
>(Tycooly International Publishing LTD, 1984).
>
>Bruce Palmer, Body Weather (Stackpole Books, 1974).
>
>S.W.Trump, Biometeorology (Hayden & Sons, LTD, 1980).
>
>Should one trade in that Copper Bracelet for a Nickel or Palladium, one?
>
>Regards,    Frederick

My e-mail reader allows me to rank the messages as to importance before
filing them into groups, with the highest rank being a red flag.  There are
times when I wish the program allowed for more than one red flag, and this
is one of them.  Every single time I get on an airplane, and many times when
I am in certain buildings, my throat gets dry, and I get a really bad cough
that won't go away.  It feels like something actually attacking the tissues
of my throat like sparks or something.  The only way to avoid it is to know
beforehand the situations where it occurs, and to have throat lozenges or
gum or something to coat my throat before I enter those places.  I've always
known that it was from processed air, but I always figured that it was an
ionic discharge of some sort.  A recombiner on those air processors might be
a help.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

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	Dear Adam

	This is standard signal processing and you would be best severed
to get a beginner or mid level book on the subject.  Do you have any
background in electronic circuits?

				John

	Basic issues are

	What frequency?
	What are you going to DO or DRIVE with the resultant signal [s]
	How much accuracy and-or stability is required?
	What is the objection to purchasing standard test equipment
		such as signal generator [s]?




On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Adam Cox wrote:

> Can anyone tell me an easy way to create two identical AC signals separated 
> by a specific phase shift??  Sine waves preferable.
> 
> Adam
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 14:14:25 2000
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Older quantum cryptography techniques
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000404134909.0079d570 pop.mindspring.com>
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	This is cool... But

	The King of Crypto is true One Time Pad.  A systems costs ~ 50K...
but then you have all control of the generation.  Real good system is
100k and you can do CD if you want big.



On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Horace Heffner posted a brief APS article: 
> 
> THE FIRST ENTANGLEMENT OF FOUR PARTICLES has been experimentally achieved
> by researchers at NIST (Christopher Monroe, 303-497-7415)
> 
> This describes a far-out concept that would allow ideal, secure
> point-to-point communication. However, two other forms of cryptography that
> depend upon quantum theory mechanisms have been developed. The first one
> was proposed nearly 30 years ago by Stephen Wiesner. Unfortunately, due to
> opposition from the establishment Wiesner was not able to publish a paper
> or attract attention for ten years. He said most people thought he was
> crazy. Apparently, they they did not understand the physics or the
> crypography. Fortunately, Charles H. Bennett listened to him. He and others
> later produce a remarkably simple implementation. I do not understand the
> quantum theory part, but the cryptographic technique is elegant. Polarized
> filters are used to transmit or intercept single photons, with each bit
> either in rectilinear or diagonal polarization, mixed randomly. This is
> used to send a one time pad which cannot be intercepted by a third party.
> The eavesdropper would get half the bits incorrect (with the wrong
> polarization), and he would corrupt the data stream in the act of
> intercepting them.
> 
> Few people paid attention to this development until the mid 1980s when a
> device was actually built and the process was demonstrated over a distance
> of 30 cm at 10 bits/second. It is now is developed enough to allow a test
> in Switzerland over a 10 kilometer fiber-optic cable, with data rates
> expected to reach 20 kb/second soon. That is high enough for practical use,
> especially since this channel would be used for the random number pad
> alone, which could be continous, with the encoded data sent in bursts over
> any other regular connection. A group at Los Alamos is trying to discover
> ways a way to transmit through open air. I cannot imagine how anyone could
> detect a single photon an open-air.
> 
> This development should not be confused with quantum computing, which
> threatens to obsolete many existing forms of cryptography.
> 
> See:
> 
> http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~crepeau/CRYPTO/Biblio-QC.html
> 
> http://www.qubit.org/intros/crypt.html
> 
> As usual, the history of this discovery would teach a great deal to CF
> scientists, if only they were inclined to learn from history.
> 
> - Jed
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 15:24:03 2000
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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 23:18:58 +0100
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Fred Epps wrote:

<<Hi Nick,

Greg had stated that he personally demonstrated a working model of the RMOG
to you. I'll have to root around in my files a bit to find it, but I
remember this clearly.>>

Hi Fred,
            You have a good memory, but, in this particular case, it is not
clear. Greg did claim to have demonstrated a device to a "senior figure in
the Green movement" but it wasn't me. If a "senior figure" equates to being
a corporate vice chairman, I would have been more like an area manager. At
the time I checked up with a couple of "senior figures" but they knew
nothing of this demonstration. To be fair, however, the environmental
movement has many groups and it would have been difficult to check with
everyone (Friends of the Earth alone is in over 50 national countries).
    My feeling now is that the SMOT saga was a scam that went wrong for
Greg. He took 18 orders at A$150 which means A$2700. He put in a lot of work
for that. I remember that he promised people free SMOT kits if they put his
offer on their websites. I suspect he was trying to start up a "pyramid"
scheme. I didn't feel as ripped off as some because I ordered mine when he
was only promising anomalous behaviour - he had yet to promise "rollarounds"

Nick Palmer - (ex) co-ordinator, Jersey Friends of the Earth

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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
  Send mail to mime docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.

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Hello everybody, 

I was wondering, since the gravity loss increases as frequency decreases,
does this mean that a really good result would be obtained from a
high-voltage DC power supply? In other words, use a frequency of zero? 

The experiment would then have some similarity in concept to
Townsend-Brownes capacitor experiments. 

Regards,


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<P>Hello everybody, </P>
<P>I was wondering, since the gravity loss increases as frequency decreases, 
does this mean that a really good result would be obtained from a high-voltage 
DC power supply? In other words, use a frequency of zero?</P>
<P>The experiment would then have some similarity in concept to Townsend-Brownes 
capacitor experiments.</P>
<P>Regards,</P>
<P>Steve.</P></FONT></DIV>
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 17:10:40 2000
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Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 16:56:53 -0700
From: Lynn Kurtz <kurtz imap2.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unidentified subject!
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At 03:57 PM 4/5/00 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>	Dear Adam
>
>	This is standard signal processing and you would be best severed
>to get a beginner or mid level book on the subject.  Do you have any
>background in electronic circuits?
>
>				John
>

Sometimes typo's crack me up. Cut 'im loose so he can get to the store!

:-)

--Lynn

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	Yes... I guess I am a cut up on this one....

	You get three YBs
				You bad
					You Bad
						You Bad

			J


On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Lynn Kurtz wrote:

> At 03:57 PM 4/5/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >	Dear Adam
> >
> >	This is standard signal processing and you would be best severed
> >to get a beginner or mid level book on the subject.  Do you have any
> >background in electronic circuits?
> >
> >				John
> >
> 
> Sometimes typo's crack me up. Cut 'im loose so he can get to the store!
> 
> :-)
> 
> --Lynn
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr  5 20:21:50 2000
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps quidnunc.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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Hi Nick,
>
>Greg had stated that he personally demonstrated a working model of the RMOG
>to you. I'll have to root around in my files a bit to find it, but I
>remember this clearly.>>
>
>Hi Fred,
>            You have a good memory, but, in this particular case, it is not
>clear. Greg did claim to have demonstrated a device to a "senior figure in
>the Green movement" but it wasn't me.

Yes, I must have conflated the two things together. Sorry about that. You
were the only Green that I knew that was into FE stuff at the time. Still
not many AFAIK.

If a "senior figure" equates to being
>a corporate vice chairman, I would have been more like an area manager. At
>the time I checked up with a couple of "senior figures" but they knew
>nothing of this demonstration. To be fair, however, the environmental
>movement has many groups and it would have been difficult to check with
>everyone (Friends of the Earth alone is in over 50 national countries).

Sure, its like, "Oh you're from Ohio, then you must know George" :-)

>    My feeling now is that the SMOT saga was a scam that went wrong for
>Greg. He took 18 orders at A$150 which means A$2700. He put in a lot of
work
>for that. I remember that he promised people free SMOT kits if they put his
>offer on their websites. I suspect he was trying to start up a "pyramid"
>scheme. I didn't feel as ripped off as some because I ordered mine when he
>was only promising anomalous behaviour - he had yet to promise
"rollarounds"

Like somebody said, there are easier and more lucrative ways to scam people
than that. If it was a 'pure' fraud, he would have done better to make a
slick video of a beautiful working machine, then take orders and skip.
The basic ideas in his devices, especially the RMOG and PMOD, still seem to
be valid to me, and there are other similar devices that are claimed to
work, but not so similar that he could have simply copied them. For all the
discussion and speculation about his motives there has been little about his
ideas, which were first rate in my opinion.

My best guess is he saw something anomalous, overcommited himself too soon,
wore himself out trying to get everybody to see what he was seeing (remember
the detailed replication instructions) and then got caught between investors
and the clamoring internet public. He started out as a pure idealist, trying
to get everyone in on the show, and, since there is never a pure anything
without a shadow side, he flipped into pure cynicism when it all started to
cave in on him.  The strain was too much. That doesn't excuse his not living
up to his committments, of course. But if he had been greedier and more self
serving in the first place it never would have happened. Balance is all.

Thanks for the clarification, Nick.

Regards,
Fred

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Message-ID: <20000406054053.21217.qmail web2101.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 22:40:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor WORKS?!!
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net> wrote:
>Michael Schaffer wrote:
>>    Exact calculation is messy because of the elliptic integrals. 
>
>Yes messy but not that difficult. I may even be able to make
>some sense out of it. It will be a snap for the tensor calculus
>boys. They are all busy writing fantastic theories right now 
>and don't even know about this. Some interesting experimental
>results may provide them some useful directions. 
>
>> An approximate calculation in the limit of large length/radius is easy,
>however.
>> In this limit the magnetic field in the cylindrical shell between the two
>> coils is just H = nI, where n = number of turns per unit length and I =
>> current in the wire. 
>
>Right, this is the standard simple solution. In the simple approximation
>for the problem we are looking at, H = nI from the inside coil, and 
>H = -nI from the outside coil. Effectively cancelling. Leaving behind
>significant end effects and leakage effects. Significant radial as 
>well as axial fields. Not to be neglected.

The simplified problem I described is actually most of the problem, as long
as you allow for the fact that the two windings are at different radii. If we
continue from where I left off last time, 
   Flux = mu_o*pi*(r_o^2 - r_i^2)*n*I, 
where r_o and r_i are outer and inner winding radii, respectively. The
inductance per unit length L' is then
   L' = n*Flux/I = mu_o*pi*(r_o^2 - r_i^2)*n^2.

That's it. It is a good approximation if the length is much greater than
radius. If r_o - r_i << r_o, the usual end effects are much smaller than with
a single winding, because the radial field components of the two windings
with opposite currents almost cancel, which means that the axial field is
much more uniform than usual. This is an example of an approximation that
preserves the important part of the problem while still simplifying the
calculation. The next level of accuracy is probably to account for the little
private flux linkages around the wires, not end effects.

This two-coaxial-coil problem is a simple version of the calculation of the
inductance of a multilayer coil, including the contribution of the finite
winding thickness. This is an old standard problem, not a new one. Anyone who
does electromagnetic calculations for part of his living, as I do, knows
this. I don't think tensor calculus is either necessary or helpful here.

=====
Michael J. Schaffer



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [jlnlabs] System-G Frequency  (fwd)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:13:49 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 19:58:31 -0400 (EDT), John Schnurer wrote:
>
>Hello everybody, 
>
>I was wondering, since the gravity loss increases as frequency decreases,
>does this mean that a really good result would be obtained from a
>high-voltage DC power supply? In other words, use a frequency of zero? 
>
>The experiment would then have some similarity in concept to
>Townsend-Brownes capacitor experiments. 
>
>Regards,
Hi John,

I already tried pushing this angle, but Fran says DC -> no photons -> no
weight loss. 


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Older quantum cryptography techniques
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At 5:17 PM 4/5/0, John Schnurer wrote:
>        This is cool... But
>
>        The King of Crypto is true One Time Pad.  A systems costs ~ 50K...
>but then you have all control of the generation.  Real good system is
>100k and you can do CD if you want big.


A very cheap method to obtain random bits for a one time pad is to drive a
very fast flip-flop by a high frequency unstable oscillator signal, say a
GHz, and then sample the flip-flop at the time a fast white noise generator
rises above a trigger voltage selected to give about a 1 MHz sampling rate.
A serial buffer can be used to cordinate sampling time with bit output
timing. The white noise generator can consist of several op amps in series
with an open input, or just another unstable oscillator that is higly
isolated from the first.  Adding white noise to oscillator output is one
means of unstablizing the osciallator output.  Some control logic added can
drive a serial or parallel interface, or a memory mapped i/o interface on a
PC card.  The rest is software.  This is cheap stuff to implement, and can
provide a large increase in security, and in some applications, it can be
done with little loss in communication performance (I know of some slick
methods for implementation.)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 04:55:58 2000
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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 07:59:16 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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Nick Palmer wrote:
> 
> Fred Epps wrote:
> 
> <<Hi Nick,
> 
> Greg had stated that he personally demonstrated a working model of the RMOG
> to you. I'll have to root around in my files a bit to find it, but I
> remember this clearly.>>
> 
> Hi Fred,
>             You have a good memory, but, in this particular case, it is not
> clear. Greg did claim to have demonstrated a device to a "senior figure in
> the Green movement" but it wasn't me. If a "senior figure" equates to being
> a corporate vice chairman, I would have been more like an area manager. At
> the time I checked up with a couple of "senior figures" but they knew
> nothing of this demonstration. To be fair, however, the environmental
> movement has many groups and it would have been difficult to check with
> everyone (Friends of the Earth alone is in over 50 national countries).
>     My feeling now is that the SMOT saga was a scam that went wrong for
> Greg. He took 18 orders at A$150 which means A$2700. He put in a lot of work
> for that. I remember that he promised people free SMOT kits if they put his
> offer on their websites. I suspect he was trying to start up a "pyramid"
> scheme. I didn't feel as ripped off as some because I ordered mine when he
> was only promising anomalous behaviour - he had yet to promise "rollarounds"


Before we crucify Greg, we should address Jean-Louis Naudin's
results which show SMOT to be 13.3% OU at:

http://members.xoom.com/jlnlabs/html/smotnrgt.htm

Regards,

Terry

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TO; Vortex

If one can trap the Ions with an Electret, it can then be placed in a vacuum
chamber and when the LLs are stripped from the Ions they can be
"sorted" using a Mass Spectrometer Technique and observed 

 http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/1135/electret.htm

when they strike a plate coated with a suitable phosphor.

Using the Earth's Magnetic field (B) (~5.0E-5 Tesla)

Radius, R =   Mrel*c/(q*B)

Mrel = Mo[(E-kinetic/Eo) + 1] =  Mo/[1-(v^2/c^2]^1/2

IF the LL has a rest mass energy of 27.2 or 0.2 ev, with a 2,720 Volt accelerating voltage
they will sweep a Radius of ~ 7.16 Inches in a mass spectrometer-type detector
using the Earth's B field (~0.5E-4 Tesla)as the magnet.

Regards,     Frederick



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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:36:54 -1000
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From: Rick Monteverde <rick mail.highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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At 7:59 AM -0400 4/6/00, Terry Blanton wrote:

>Before we crucify Greg, we should address Jean-Louis Naudin's
>results which show SMOT to be 13.3% OU at:

Crucifixion was earned by theft, not the SMOT efficiency.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 11:26:47 2000
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Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 14:28:24 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
> At 7:59 AM -0400 4/6/00, Terry Blanton wrote:
> 
> >Before we crucify Greg, we should address Jean-Louis Naudin's
> >results which show SMOT to be 13.3% OU at:
> 
> Crucifixion was earned by theft, not the SMOT efficiency.

IMO, crucifixion is earned by intent.  I would crucify if the
original intent was to defraud.  In Greg's case, I think he is
guilty of failure to perform.  I also suspect that he did not
profit much from this if he really spent the monies he claimed on
manufacturing attempts.

I have a friend who has relocated to Australia for the Olympics
and he has promised to "look up" Greg when he has a chance.  He
is doing the same job there that he did here in Atlanta --
security.  He's not Guido; but, he is Italian.

Terry

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Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:41:37 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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>At 7:59 AM -0400 4/6/00, Terry Blanton wrote:
>
>>Before we crucify Greg, we should address Jean-Louis Naudin's
>>results which show SMOT to be 13.3% OU at:
>
>Crucifixion was earned by theft, not the SMOT efficiency.

***{Consider an analogy. Suppose that Sam puts out a newsletter on some
esoteric topic, takes subscriptions, and discovers that there isn't enough
interest in the topic for him to make any money. By the time he figures
that out, his savings are down to the point where he cannot give refunds on
the unused portion of the few subscriptions that he has, and, embarrassed
by the situation, he simply stops sending out issues, gets a day job, and
puts the episode out of his mind. Result: subscribers eventually notice
that no further issues are appearing in their mailboxes, and a few of them
send off inquiries, to which they get no response. Question: Is Sam just a
guy who got in over his head, is embarrassed, and lacks the character to
admit that he messed up? Or does his failure to send out refunds as soon as
he is able have the retroactive effect of making him a thief? In other
words, does theft require premeditation? Frankly, I think it does. Such
behavior may be reprehensible, but it is not the same thing as theft.
--MJ}***

>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 12:40:30 2000
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Subject: Re: Cosmic Ray Positive Electrons; Positrons or Positrinos?
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:35:53 -0700
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To: Vortex

About 30 percent of the "Cosmic Ray Electrons" are Positive, and "Thought
Not to be "Cosmic Rays" from the Sun".

Could many of these be Positrinos along with Negatrinos created on the Sun,
with energies from a few Mev to over a Gev?

A detector Could Not Deterimine the difference between these and Positrons-Electrons.

Regards,    Frederick



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Adam,
The simplest way is to use a phase lock loop, which in effect multiplies
the signals by a cosine wave when it is locked in. The oscillator you use
should have two outputs, 90 degrees out of phase, in effect a sine and a
cosine wave of the correct frequency. Then you multiply the input signal
by both the sine and cosine waves and integrate over a period. The
arctangent of the ratio of the two signals is the phase angle. The circuit
is known as a Costos Combiner, and was developed in the early 60's by
John Costos of GE. These days it can be done on a single chip. Look up the
literature on phase-lock=loop chips. I know Motorola makes one, and
probably Analog devices Linear, and TI do also.


Hank
On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Adam Cox wrote:

> Can anyone tell me an easy way to create two identical AC signals separated 
> by a specific phase shift??  Sine waves preferable.
> 
> Adam
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 

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Nice try John. One of the best explanations of anything quantum I have
seen on Vortex. Thank You

Hank

On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, John Farrell wrote:

> Scott Little stated on March 31 (I think this is the correct date):
> 
> This last bit does not sound right, energetically.  The (hydrogen) atom
> expands in the
> n=3 state because it has higher total energy in that state, hence the
> electron must be farther away from the nucleus at a less-negative potential.
> 
> >Why is the effective charge different than the nuclear charge,
> >you ask?  Absorbed photons behave as surface charge, Mills replies.
> 
> If they behave BOTH as surface charge AND as energy, then it looks like
> we're double-counting.  Everything works out fine if you leave the nucleus
> with +1 charge and just let the absorbed photons add energy to the system,
> doesn't it?
> 
> My response:
> 
> In quantum, the transition from the n =1 state to the n = 3 state is
> typically described as follows.  The electron in the n = 1 state has a
> spherically symmetric distribution which is a maximum at r = 0 and
> decreases exponentially to zero at r = infinity;  the average value of r is
> a(subH), the hydrogen radius (value is very close to the Bohr radius).  The
> electron is at -13.6 eV in the n = 1 state.  If the electron absorbs 12.1
> eV of energy (typically a photon), the electron goes to the n = 3 state
> which has an average value of r = 9 a(0).
> 
> Now, suppose I have a book on the bottom shelf in my office and I want to
> put it on the third shelf from the bottom.  Do I say that if you add energy
> (m g delta h) to the book the book will go to the third shelf.  Of course
> not.  I describe some physical process that actually takes the book from
> shelf 1 to shelf 3:  grab the book with my arm and lift the book with my
> arm; use a jack; use a pulley; or--whatever.  No matter how we do it, it
> takes (m g delta h) of energy (as a minimum in this case).  It is not
> double counting to say that it takes m g delta h and also to give some
> physical process by which it takes place.
> 
> Mills attempts to give a physical reason why things happen--usually they
> depend heavily on Maxwell's equations.  The problem is that you have to
> understand some of the fundamentals of his theory before you have the
> context to appreciate the explanations.  Even worse,  if you try to
> understand Mills' explanations within the framework of Schrodinger's
> quantum it is possible to get terribly confused or, more often, simply
> think he doesn't know what he is doing.
> 
> I can help with this process, but is very difficult to do so with email (at
> least for me).  Sometimes, I can give a shortcut to Mills' derivations.
> For example, the main foundation of Mills' theory is that a steady state of
> moving charge or matter, with or without acceleration, must not radiate
> either electromagnetic or gravitational waves and that the eigenfunction of
> charge/matter has to be free of Fourier components synchronous with waves
> traveling at the speed of light.  This postulate was originally derived
> from Maxwell's equations by Herman Haus for a moving charge (H. A. Haus,
> "On the Radiation of Point Charges," Am J Phys 54 (12) 1126, December
> 1986),  Mills uses this postulate to derive the radial Dirac delta function
> as the radial functions of the bound electron in the hydrogen atom.  He
> also shows that the one-electron functions of Schrodinger should radiate.
> But you don't have to follow the derivation.  A radial Dirac delta function
> has **no** Fourier components--so it cannot have components synchronous
> with the speed of light!  On the other hand, the Schrodinger one-electron
> functions vary from r = 0 to infinity, they are reasonably complicated,
> have nodes, and so on--they will have an infinite number of Fourier
> components--they should radiate like blazes.  When I saw Haus' paper, I
> knew that if Haus was correct, so was Mills.  The Schrodinger wavefunctions
> would still be taught in my classes, but they were dead in the water.
> 
> 
> Even with these shortcuts, however, it is somewhat tedious to get up to
> speed with Mills' theory.  One big stumbling block is the notion in my
> previous post: the electric field of a photon is manifested as surface
> charge when absorbed by matter.  Electric fields are routinely manifested
> as surface charge, but not within the context of photon absorption by
> individual atoms or molecules.   It happens when a resonator cavity absorbs
> microwave radiation. It happens when a photon of the right energy
> "produces" an electron (-e) and a positron (+e) -- pair production.  But
> let Mills propose that surface charge is produced on the electron
> orbitsphere when a hydrogen atom absorbs a photon, some people go
> ballistic.  Is this because they don't understand Dirac delta functions, or
> photons, or electric fields?  I don't know.  They certainly understand
> photons and electric fields within some context--maybe better that I do.
> 
> For the particular case in question, suppose that you could magically
> reduce the nuclear charge of a proton from +1 to +1/2 (in effect this is
> what the absorbed photon does).  An electron at the Bohr radius would no
> longer be force balanced-- it would be in force balance at 2 * Bohr radius.
> It takes no energy to get it there (as a matter of fact it loses kinetic
> energy as it moves farther away).    In Mills' theory a photon with angular
> frequency of 3.10 x 10^16 rad per sec (20.4 eV) would provide the surface
> charge to move a *stationary* resonance cavity with charge -1 from the
> hydrogen  radius (52.947 pm) to 2 * hydrogen radius.  The resonance cavity
> is not stationary, however.  An electron orbitsphere (radial Dirac delta
> function) at the Bohr radius, n = 1, has an angular velocity of 4.13 x
> 10^16 rad per sec (the general formula for the angular velocity is
> 
> omega(subn) = hbar/[m * (n * a(subH)^2]
> 
> where "m" is the electron mass and "a(subH)" is the hydrogen radius (52.947
> pm).
> 
> The angular velocity of an electron orbitsphere at 2* hydrogen radius, n =
> 2, is 1.03 x 10^16 rad per sec (formula above).
> 
> The difference in the angular velocity of these two orbitspheres is 3.10 x
> 10^16 rad per sec.  [Note that this is also the angular velocity of the
> photon required if the orbitsphere was stationary.]  And the kinetic energy
> lost by the orbitsphere expanding from A(subH) to 2* a(subH) is 1.64 x
> 10^-18 J or 10.2 eV.  That is, in the actual transition from n = 1 to n =2,
> the photon only requires an angular frequency of (3.10 x 10^16 rad per
> sec)/2 (that is, 1/2 of the energy for a stationary orbitsphere) because
> 1/2 of the energy is supplied by the decrease in the kinetic energy of the
> electron.  [Please note, if you are interested, the Correspondence
> Principle holds for  Mills' description of the process.]
> 
> Well, I don't know if this helps.  If it doesn't, I'm sure you will let me
> know.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> John Farrell
> 
> 
> *******************************************************************
> John J. Farrell                                    email
> J_FARRELL ACAD.FANDM.EDU
> Chemistry Department                       Phone     717-291-3803
> Franklin & Marshall College             FAX       717-291-4343
> Lancaster, PA  17604    USA
> *******************************************************************
> 
> 
> 

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Michael Schaffer wrote:
> That's it. It is a good approximation if the length is much greater than
> radius. If r_o - r_i << r_o, the usual end effects are much smaller than with
> a single winding, because the radial field components of the two windings
> with opposite currents almost cancel, which means that the axial field is
> much more uniform than usual. 

Of course you're right Michael. Ignore the problem we are looking at, 
in which the length is on the same order as the radius. Instead,
assume the length is very much larger than the radius, and approximate 
the axial field as nearly constant in the device. Radial fields are 
insignificant. Good enough for inductor design. So, no use looking 
any deeper. 

But, maybe there is. There is something fascinating about the 
radial fields, and perhaps useful. Thanks for the effort, but 
as you know, there is little point in trying to dissuade some 
folks from their evident folly. I'm already hooked, and unable 
to assume away the radial fields. 

Regards,
Robert Stirniman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 13:55:11 2000
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From: Jim Uban <uban world.std.com>
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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>Nick Palmer wrote:
>..My feeling now is that the SMOT saga was a scam that went wrong for
Greg. He took 18 orders at A$150 which means A$2700..

	Greg may have taken in a few more
than that, as I sent in an order for two
SMOTs right before he shut it down on us.
So, that's another $300 from me.  Perhaps
other did so as well near the end?  Greg
never updated his web page to list my
orders.
		Jim

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 14:38:56 2000
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: David Dennard <daviddennard hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !)
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	Dear David,

	Where have I been dishonest with you?

	I am not trying to waste your time.  I am trying to find a way of
describing your theories, so that others who may have ignored you before
will understand and be able to accept you.

	I would be sure to have you proof read the text so it did not say
anything wrong.

	People may have dismissed some of your ideas because of the
nature of the presentation, type of presentation, wording used or method
of presentation.

	The object is to be clear and the accurate  use of common terms.

	The further object is to be able to .. in an un ambiguous way to
describe your theories in an enjoyable, readable way so that ANYONE, from
lay person to expert will understand.
	Often, I have observed, when you make a statement it prompts a
flurry of questions.
	It is my sincere belief that a coherent and accurate statement,
employing well known, common, accurate and most important correct and 
accepted terminology will result in not being ignored and will result in
clear understanding.

	Example:

	A teracher may be describing to a drivers' education student the
proper way to turn at a stop light from a street with two-way traffic onto
a street with one-way traffic and might state matters this way: 

	"The right way to make a left turn onto a one way street is to is
to make the turn and stay in the right lane for traffic so that you do not
cross a lane in the wrong way."

	OR:

	The teacher might say;

	The correct and legal way to make a left turn onto a one way
street from a stop light  is to make the turn and stay in the left most
lane of the one
way street.  This way you are not crossing any lanes but moving into the
nearest lane available.

	Example:

	Even the simple use of punctuation is important.
	Consider these two sentences with the following situation.

	Two young children five and six are visiting Grandmother and it is
the middle of a fine summer afternon and the children have been playing
hard.  The come into the kitchen to ask for something to eat and see that
Grandmother is taking cookies out of the oven.

	They pipe up:

	" Let's eat, Grandma" .....

	OR:

	They say

	"Let's eat Grandma!"....

	The latter is cannibalism.

	
	Example:

	Someone is feeling ill-at-ease in the stomach and they say:

	"I'm nauseous"

	OR:

	"I'm nauseated"

	The first term means they are capable of CAUSING some to BE the
second term.


		Do you see a problem with this?

				John


On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, David Dennard wrote:

> I explained all of it at greenglow and they threw me off.  I have explained 
> it a vortex-l and they ignore me.  It is very simple, works just like a 
> bubble.
> 
> I do not want to spend lots of time off board, blow by blow, bubble by 
> bubble.  I would in some cases but you are not one that has been honest or 
> sincere or upfront to me in the past.  More like a person trying to waste 
> people's time.  I might be wrong but the "style" just does not look right.
> 
> You are welcome to join my list.  Hundreds of blow by blow pages.  Show real 
> interest and sincerity and you will be welcome.
> 
> David
> 
> >From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
> >To: David Dennard <daviddennard hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: Gravity as ZPE Push force (excellent !)
> >Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 21:46:59 -0400 (EDT)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >	Well, how does it cause evaporation and how does it cause
> >the speed of light?
> >
> >	How does light work, or propagate?
> >
> >	I know what classical theories say, but I want to know what your
> >systems does,. please.
> >
> >	If you told me my car goes because I put gasoline in it, on onw
> >level I could say Right!  But it does not tell me anout ther difference
> >between diesel and internal combustion 4 stroke engines.
> >
> >
> >	I am VERY curious as to how you see, blow by grinding blow how
> >electromagnetic radiation, in this case light, is formed, how it
> >propagates and how gravity influences it.
> >
> >
> >					Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> >						John
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, David Dennard wrote:
> >
> > > In fluid space, the same way gravity "causes" evaporation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >	How does Gravity "cause" the speed of light?
> > > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> >
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 16:35:24 2000
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: combine AC signalsRe: Unidentified subject!
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y

	Phase locked loop

	CMOS 4046

	The "Old Hat" of bread and butter Phase Locked Loops

	Don Lancaster's CMOS Cookbook from H W Sam's  publishing
Indianapolis Indiana  is one of the best books to tell you how to use it

	

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 19:35:41 2000
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
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To: Vortex

I would think that an Electret coated with ~ 500 Angstroms of Silver or such
would still collect Ions onto the metal surface.

This way a high voltage applied to the metal films would facilitate removal
of the ions from the electret by repelling them?

Comments?

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr  6 21:35:34 2000
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To: Vortex

A Ceramic Disk Capacitor sitting in air or water vapor, with kilovolts 
applied should act as an ion collector.

For the LL experiments when it is placed in a vacuum chamber, and
a reverse potential applied it should repel the ions off the surface.

Then Photo-Detachment (2.5 ev or less)should separate the (+/-)Leptons or Electrons.

Any excess water collected should evaporate off, leaving the trapped ions behind.

This Might be a way to get LLs (IF They Exist) into a Plasma Discharge too, Vince.  :-)

Or just letting air bleed through the Plasma Discharge Chamber with voltage applied to 
the electrodes should trap many of the ~ 500 ion-pairs/cubic centimeter in air.

Regards,     Frederick



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  7 10:18:52 2000
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To all,

I would like anyone who is interested in discussing or learning about "cold
fusion" to visit the new forum on the subject located at
http://www.altenergy.org/forum/forum.html.  Perhaps this site will take some
load off Vortex and provide a way for people in the field or interested students
to share information.  Skeptics are also welcome and encouraged to present their
ideas with vigor but without personal attack.
I hope to see you there.

Ed Storms

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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
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See below

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L



Bill:

 I am certain that Vortex-L would like to know, as I stated, this
is the only information that I have, I cannot amplify further, as
I too have had no further contact, and know only what I have passed
on.

 The information is neither a defence or otherwise of the actions, other
than some (long term) feedback, that might help those that did not see
a successful conclusion to certain aspects of the SMOT research.



 O.k All the best to the readers.


  Glenville.

---------------------------------------------------------------     


Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 01:07:08 +0930
From: gsawyer <gsawyer dove.net.au>
To: freenrg-l eskimo.com
Subject: Greg Watson & SMOT  -  Slightly OT.

 I have kept some of this information back for some time, but now feel
that maybe it is relevant to release it at this point in time, for 
informational purposes.


 If Greg Watson Himself receives a copy of this text, then I trust that
He will accept the spirit and manner in which it has been presented, and
will forgive me for opening a subject that I know caused Him and His
family a great deal of anguish.





What I know as background..

 
 Well, Greg Watson, whom I knew in the mid-70's, was involved in
starting up and running a small company promoting Computers for the
general 
population, Down in Adelaide (the capital of South Australia) - about
100 
Kliks south of me.



 I knew Greg personally back then, at a time when very few people knew
anything about these "new fangled" computers.


 Greg, Peter (Christie), Terry (McCarthy), and a few others of us, were 
at that time all either building up systems (S-100 and etc), or had them 
up and running, and saw the potential for the future - remember that we 
are talking about a time well prior to the "Apple", "TRS-80" and
certainly 
nowhere near the incursion of "Big Blue" into the computer market. 


 This is near the time that William developed a "Disk Operating System",
in fact we read then about this "Wizz-Kid" in the U.S, in the original
"Dr Dobbs Journal" - then a Roneod' 1 or 2 page affair, who looked to
have 
some potential, and was basically writing the same sort of things as we 
were here - Well History shows, that "Bill G" made it work, while the 
rest of us were still trying to work out if what we were doing was even
a viable proposition - let alone a Global marketing possibility.

  Yes, the "Wizz-Kid", young William, made it - we did not, but no
grudges are held on that score, the quick or the dead - not literally,
only in a marketing sense.
 


 As far as I recall, Greg was instrumental in developing a number of
dedicated control and command systems - all Computer based, He also had
a 
good grasp of "74" series logic functions (this is to provide some
indication of the technical background of the Person), those that
understood complex "chip" functions back then - stood a good chance 
of making a reasonable future for themselves.



 We used to get together in the basement of a large Government
establishment, mainly concerned with the Racing Industry in this
state, this was a place where there were "real" computers, just
upstairs from us, (mainframes - networked via 300 Baud modems, to
consoles 
throughout South Australia), we could all talk about our thoughts for 
the future, some of us were involved in "RTTY" - or Radio Teletype, a 
wireless version of the then common "TTY" machines that were starting 
to appear in offices all over Australia.

 At the same time, we were writing software to drive our "large" Floppy
disk drives ( 70K Micropolis - remember them??? ), and developing a
"BIOS"
and "BDOS" designed to just get our systems going, we had good input
from 
"The Team", Greg was a willing contributor to this input process.


 I lost touch with Greg, and all but 1 member of "The Team", over the
passing years, it was only through the various "Free-Energy" lists
that I once again made His acquaintance, after a very long break.



  His fledgling company was, as far as I recall, quite successful in 
Adelaide, He made a  good "go" of it, and I am certain that at that
time, there were many satisfied customers.




 I among a few others, on this and other lists, supported Greg, in fact 
those that submitted "SMOT Results", would have done so using a little
piece of Java-Script, that I donated to Greg, (the second only piece of
script that I had ever written back then), I did this to assist in the
project - well to me, this was my way of making a contribution to F-E 
research.

 Not all researchers at that time (as indeed now), were able, prepared
or 
even in a position to purchase "kits" or donate any "physical" resources 
to the various ideas that were being promulgated at that time.



 Greg was one of the founders of the company that eventually became the
ISP that I currently  use, (Microtronics - of which the ISP division
became "DOVE").  Nothing persoanl here, I get no "freebies" from them
and have no contact or connection with tham. other than being one of
several hundred subscribers.



 When did things start to turn "pear shaped"?


  There was an original member of the ISP's "crew" that left under
circumstances that might be described as "unhappily", I know that not
long after this, Greg received a number of VERY threatening telephone 
calls, that although  could not, with any certainty, be "pinned" down to 
this individual, the finger very much pointed in this direction.


 In fact a few contacts between Greg and Myself seemed to narrow the 
field down to either this, or some other still currently unknown 
individual.



 This was just after (or roughly) the same time that Greg had reached
the
point of "SMOT" research, where He was ready to start the distribution
of the kits.


 Yes, Greg stated that he went on and looked at Patents etc, and that 
His "legal eagles" had recommended against further public release of His
results.


  I am in no way defending Gregs' actions, in regard to refunds or etc, 
that is a matter between the individual intended purchasers and Greg
Himself, neither am I defending or denying the morality or otherwise of
the ensuing actions.



 What I did want to highlight are some facts that until now, no one has
probably been aware, the background information to me shows that Greg 
was a sincere person, if I had received threats of a similar nature to
that which Greg had, - whether to do with a dismissed business partner
or any other aspect of my (or my families) personal work or research,
and which physically threatened my personal well-being, then I too might
have 
"stepped back" a number of paces from any public contact.


  As the threats were never (to my knowledge), accurately defined to any 
particular individual, then the case is still an "open" one.



  Sure maybe Greg did do some wrong things, but I do not think it was
financially oriented - Greg did not (AFAIK), "need" the money, he had 
a very sound background in that respect.


 Neither do I think that there were any "Black"(?) forces involved,
I bracketed that expression, for obvious reasons, that some would
readily
understand, Australia - although we still do have some fairly draconian
security provisions, do not normally experience suppression of that
type.



 This may have been a problem borne by a small error, that grew a long
way out of proportion, who else actually achieved a  "SMOT Roll-Around"
anywhere near those that Greg had managed to achieve?

  I think that the answer would be  -  not that many.

 Did Greg reach a point where he had committed to "GO", and got a little 
too deep, realising that what HE had, MIGHT not be capable of being
reproduced by all and sundry?

  No one likes to admit to failure, in fact this is one of the greatest 
"fear factors" amongst most humans. 


  There may have been a better way to admit that "you might not be able 
to achieve the same results.." - but Greg did not find it soon enough.






 There you have some data that until now, you would probably not have
been fully aware of, I will not be entering into any "flame-wars" on
this
subject - in fact Bill B would not appreciate that happening at all on
this list - this is NOT what it is all about.


 Short-Form  - This is not a defence or otherwise, but in respect  of
 making errors of judgement, or mistakes and unadmitted failures, who 
 amongst us, can honestly state that they have never made an error
 that they have not publicly admitted?  indeed, are we / can we totally 
 state that we have always been entirely truthful with OURSELVES, at
 all times?


 I thank you for your time, and hope that you found the information
of benefit.


 If you wish to pass personal comments (OFF THE LIST), then fine, I'll
use my own judgement whether or not to respond, and will only do so in 
areas that address the topic from the angle that I have indicated.


 Yours in on-going research,

 Glenville.


---------------------------------------------------------------
Glenville T. Sawyer

Alternative Energy Experimenter:  http://www.gsawyer.mtx.net
Located at Kapunda, in South Australia's Historical Corridor.

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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Apr 07, 2000
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 15:35:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 7 Apr 00   Washington, DC

1. DOE: RICHARDSON RELAXES BADGE REQUIREMENTS AT LABORATORIES. 
During a visit to Brookhaven last Friday, the Energy Secretary
announced that the Department has dropped plans to require
foreign employees to wear badges that prominently display their
nationality (WN 28 Jan 00).  Moreover, no matter what their
nationality, employees at Brookhaven and other laboratories with
limited classified activity will not be required to wear badges
in unclassified areas, although they will be expected to produce
their badge if requested by security personnel.  Richardson's
statement came as breath of fresh air.  However, a spokesperson
at DOE this morning was unable to provide WN with the names of
the laboratories the policy would apply to.  We were told not to
expect additional information on the policy in the near future. 

2. MIR: TWO COSMONAUTS RE-OCCUPY LEAKING SPACE STATION.  Dan
Goldin expressed dismay yesterday as two cosmonauts boarded the
dilapidated space craft, which was abandoned eight months ago. 
With Russia far behind in delivery of its Zvezda Service Module
for the ISS, the re-occupation of Mir is straining relations with
the US, which is sorely embarrassed by the much delayed ISS.  But
Russia insists the Mir renovation was commercially financed by
MirCorp, an international firm established by Gold & Appel, a
holding company in the Cayman Islands, and RKK Energia (WN 14 Jan
00).  Even as Goldin fumed, MirCorp announced it would finance a
crew replacement mission to Mir in September.  Sixteen years ago
Ronald Reagan committed the US to build a space station "within a
decade."  Mir has been looking down at us for 15 of those years.

3. DIETARY SUPPLEMENT: THE RETURN OF "VITAMIN O."  In November of
1998, USA Today carried a full page ad for "Vitamin O."  What was
it? "Vitamin O contains stabilized oxygen molecules in a solution
of sodium chloride and distilled water" (WN 27 Nov 98).  After we
called attention to the ad, the Federal Trade Commission charged
the supplier, Rose Creek Health Products, with fraud (WN 19 Mar
99), and the company was shut down.  This week, we became aware
of a new oxygen supplement, BiOxygen, offered by Beverly Sassoon
& Co., http://www.bsassoon.net.  And what is BiOxygen?  "The
components of BiOxygen are water, sodium chloride, and activated
oxygen molecules."  One difference: a two ounce bottle of
BiOxygen costs $34.95, compared to only $20 for "Vitamin O."  The
recommended dose is again 15-20 drops, twice a day, or roughly
0.0000002% of your minimum daily requirement for oxygen.

4. START: PUTIN CALLS FOR FEWER--BUT MORE RELIABLE--WEAPONS.  In
his first major policy statement, Vladimir Putin, called for
ratification of Start II, which has languished in the Duma for
six years, and on to Start III.  At the same time, he sought to
satisfy the hard liners by calling for development of new weapons
to replenish the deteriorating Russian stockpile (WN 20 Nov 99).

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  7 15:19:25 2000
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I am back from a 14 mile hike, which oscillated from 2000 to 3000 feet
above sea level, every step either up or down. Perfect weather, though. I
am a little footsore, I admit.

Here is something from sci.physics.fusion. This text can be found at
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0004/baard.shtml.


DR. MOLECOOL
BY ERIK BAARD
Quantum Iconoclast Randell Mills's Grand Visions of Microscopic Medicine 

Randell Mills is a doctor better known for stirring up trouble in quantum
physics than for giving flu shots. But now he's injecting new vigor into
medical projects he claims will spur breakthroughs in fighting cancer and
AIDS,
as well as scanning the human body in three dimensions, in real time. 

"You'll go in to see your doctor and he'll check you out with my scanner,"
Mills predicts. "If he finds cancer, you'll be treated for it as an outpatient
with my therapy. If he finds something else—hypertension, an infection,
arthritis—almost any medicine that he'll use will be more efficacious when he
uses my drug-delivery molecule." 

Mills is the founder of BlackLight Power Inc., based near Princeton, New
Jersey. The company promises limitless clean energy and fantastic compounds,
based on a "grand unified theory" that is hotly derided by luminaries in
theoretical physics (see "Quantum Leap," Voice, December 28). Meanwhile, in a
smaller laboratory down the hallway from those activities, Mills is quietly
exploring medical innovations that no one seems to be calling nutty. 

Mills says he plans to fold his medical ventures into BlackLight Power after
that company has its initial public offering of stock, anticipated this year.
Profits would then be plowed into his medical pursuits, he adds. "To me it's
all the same; it's all engineering," says Mills. 

Mills conceived many of his ideas while a student at Harvard Medical School or
shortly after he graduated in 1986. Now 42, he acknowledges that it might seem
odd that he backburnered early successes in medicine. He says he wanted to
milk
his brain while it was young and most nimble without the distractions of
business or university politics. Today, he's ready to implement his designs. 

In December 1988, Mills proposed in the peer-reviewed journal Nature how
cancer
might be destroyed with such little radiation that it could be treated on an
outpatient basis. He says he was moved to improve cancer treatment when, as a
student, he witnessed the private hopelessness of doctors caring for an
otherwise healthy woman who was being slowly ravaged by tumors. 

Currently, patients are carpet bombed with radiation in the hope that normal
cells adjacent to cancer cells will be able to recover and reproduce, while
malfunctioning cancer cells won't. Patients suffer terribly and injuries from
repeated radiation can accumulate to a point where the cure itself
threatens to
become a killer. What Mills tested in mice were essentially the world's
smallest smart bombs. 

Dr. Greg Gagnon, assistant professor of radiation medicine at Georgetown
University Medical Center, has investigated Mills's radiation technique,
called
Mossbauer Isotopic Resonant Absorption of Gamma Emission, or MIRAGE. Gagnon
says Mills found a molecule to carry iron into a cell and plant it flush
against DNA, the control center. Then comes the detonation. 

The patient is given a tiny dose of gamma radiation, far less than a
standard X
ray. The gamma ray photons and iron atoms are tuned to react with each
other in
something called the Mossbauer isotope. When an iron nucleus absorbs a photon,
it becomes unstable and releases a small burst of energy that knocks an
electron out of its proper orbit, which then bumps outer electrons astray.
What
follows is an Auger cascade, a kind of microscopically localized electron
explosion, Gagnon explains. "The electrons are shooting off, breaking things
all over the place, and then the iron becomes attached to the DNA fragments.
There's no way a cell can repair so much damage." 

Healthy cells tear apart the transport molecule and the iron drifts safely
off.


"It's just an amazingly clever idea. Randy is probably the most intelligent
person I've met," remarks Gagnon. 

Dr. John Humm, a medical physicist now at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer
Center who critiqued MIRAGE in Nature, argues that because such mild gamma
rays
wouldn't likely penetrate deep into tissue, "there would be severe limitations
on clinical use. But having said that, this is nothing to sneeze at. The
elegance of the idea is impressive. I know of no other way of so selectively
inactivating sections of DNA." Scientists might instead embrace MIRAGE as a
laboratory-setting microscopic cellular probe, Humm says. 

Mills counters that while MIRAGE may not work for every cancer, in the years
since the Nature article, he's found other Mossbauer isotopes that can work at
deeper levels. In addition, he says, the radiation used in his original tests
was so negligible that he could increase it by a factor of 1000 without any
resulting discomfort to the patient. 

Back then, Mills took a stab at bringingMIRAGE to hospitals, but
researchers at
would-be partner Bristol-Myers Squibb reported that test results weren't clear
enough to pursue, according to M. Dianne DeFuria, senior director of business
development. 

DeFuria doesn't remember details, but adds that another factor could have been
that the radiation therapy "may have involved equipment beyond the scope of a
pharmaceutical company, meaning that we couldn't take it further alone." 

Mills says he's since sharpened his technique to use ultrasound or magnetic
scanners to take aim at malignant growths, and then destroy them with gamma
rays pixel by pixel on a computer screen. Beyond that, he adds, "you should
really think of this as a microscopic scalpel" good for cleaning out arteries
and reducing swollen prostates, among other applications. 

"If Randy is now meeting with good success, I hope he will come back," DeFuria
says. "His mind was certainly appreciated here." 

Mills has also demonstrated what might be a better way to use existing
drugs to
attack AIDS, herpes, and hepatitis. One of the problems doctors have in
fighting these diseases is that the drugs best able to halt viruses and
bacteria from reproducing often have trouble getting past cell membranes. They
can be modified for that purpose, but that usually means dumbing down the
medicinal value or causing side effects. Also, toxic concentrations of drugs
must sometimes be used in hope that enough will get through. 

Mills has designed a type of nontoxic molecule to ferry unadulterated drugs
into cells, says Dr. Jim A. Turpin, who manages a retrovirology lab at
Serquest, a Southern Research Institute company. 

In Mills's approach, a drug enters the body as part of a molecule with three
segments. Once past the membrane, the molecule will more likely encounter
oxygen-free radicals, created during respiration, which exist inside cells in
far greater numbers than outside. 

The radical excites the first section of the three-part molecule in a chemical
reaction that should release a photon of light. But that light is instead
channeled as bond-shattering disruptive energy running along the molecular
carrier, which then falls away like the spent stage of a rocket. The drug is
left alone to do its work, and the carrier is excreted as waste. 

Mills calls his system the Luminide method, because the carrier "is a
light-powered drug-release molecule based on a reaction analogous to that used
by fireflies to glow," and "it just sounds cool." 

Turpin tested the technique on HIV-infected white blood cells using the AIDS
drug Foscarnet. With the Luminide carrier, "we measured a minimum ninefold
enhancement of antiviral activity in tissue culture," Turpin says. 

Mills says he and Turpin will submit apaper on their findings to The
Journal of
Medicinal Chemistry in February. Tests in mice with Dupont Corporation have
been successful, Mills claims, and he plans further studies in animals and
humans. He adds that the method could be used for a host of applications, from
antidepressants to plant pesticides, but purifying the compounds is
difficult. 

The National Institutes of Health may be interested in getting behind that
effort with its own manpower and resources. When presented with Luminide
overview materials for an opinion, Dr. Nava Sarver, chief of NIH's targeted
intervention branch in the Division of AIDS, was "a little more impressed than
I thought I would be. There seems to be some real potential there." 

Sarver explains that her program helps scientists develop cutting-edge
technologies without taking any profits or making patent claims. Luminide
molecules appear to be suitable for oral administration, Sarver says, and
"anything that increases potency and decreases toxicity is a go." 

Sarver cautions that many promising ideas stumble in the final steps of
clinical testing. 

For Luminide to be closer to an ideal approach to treating AIDS, Sarver says
she'd like to "tweak" it with Mills to target only infected cells or systems.
"Specificity is the missing link here." 

Immunologist Dr. Gillian Woollett of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers
of America agrees that targeting will be important. "It's a neat idea and
there
will be a lot of companies keen to talk with him. But he has some hurdles
ahead
of him." 

If clinical trials for one drug are positive, Woollett says, "Maybe the
floodgates will open. And AIDS is not a bad place to start. This system seems
especially good for use in blood, and oxygen-free radicals are used most by
the
immune system." 

But AIDS and other infections aren't the most likely killers lurking in
peoples' bodies, Mills points out. 

"Let me tell you how you're going to die," he casually offers. "I'll say
you're
going to die of heart disease, cancer, or a stroke, and I'll be right 95
percent of the time." 

That's why Mills has another project in the works at Harvard that he says
could
revolutionize diagnostic medical imaging. 

"The guy is amazing," remarks Dr. Samuel Patz, an assistant professor at
Harvard Medical School, with an appointment in the Department of Radiology at
the university's Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. 

"I've worked with him on his medical inventions and he's contributed some
nontrivial creative ideas about a new imaging technique. It's very exciting
and
has some real possibilities," Patz says. 

Today's scanners work best by giving doctors two-dimensional snapshots of the
human body. Mills claims he's designing a scanner that may, for example, allow
a surgeon to take a live-image virtual reality walking tour through a
patient's
beating heart (it could also be used to scan industrial materials). 

Mills expounds. "The machine would work by distinguishing differences made in
the magnetic field at a location by the material itself, like bone versus
lung." Data would stream into a computer through parallel channels from up
to a
million points, providing far sharper relief than anything currently
available.


And if a strongly magnetic substance like iron were added to the bloodstream,
through an injection of Geritol for example, "the vascular system would light
up." That would allow a doctor and patient to see blood vessels growing to
feed
a tumor, or clots and cholesterol, without any invasion. 

"After seeing this, you wouldn't eat that cheesecake if I told you not to,"
Mills quips. 

The calculations involved are Herculean, says Patz, but "Randy has worked out
the mathematics. I'm convinced of that." 

Because the scanner would largely rely on existing hardware, "if someone
like a
General Electric were to get behind this, we could have a prototype in six
months," Mills says. 

Despite Mills's grand ambitions, he admits to being vexed by complexities in a
genetic sequencer he envisions, and he dismisses dreams of immortality. 

"Life is probably limited by arterial flow in the brain. Those vessels wear
out. Maybe someone will find a way of drilling out and retubing them, but then
they'll find something else. There's always a weak link." 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  7 15:43:05 2000
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From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 22:56:02 +0100
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi all,

        I sent the message below directly to "Glenville"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------------------------------


Hi Glenville,
             Nothing is contained in what you have written that gives a =
reason why Greg could not simply have sent a cheque to those who =
requested a refund. You implied he is good for the money and I believe =
his "legal eagles" cannot have given him any legitimate reason not to =
refund us. Similarly, any "threats" he may have received should not have =
prevented him from posting cheques. Do you know his current email =
address?
             Why do you capitalise Him and His as if Greg is a divinity?
=20
sincerely,

Nick Palmer  (SMOT purchaser)

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFA0E4.72B7D0A0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I sent=20
the message below directly to "Glenville"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
---------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Glenville,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;Nothing=20
is contained in what you have written that gives a reason why Greg could =
not=20
simply have sent a cheque to those who requested a refund. You implied =
he is=20
good for the money and I believe his "legal eagles" cannot have given =
him any=20
legitimate reason not to refund us. Similarly, any "threats" he may have =

received should not have prevented him from posting cheques. Do you know =
his=20
current email address?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
Why do you capitalise Him and His as if Greg is a divinity?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nick Palmer&nbsp; (SMOT=20
purchaser)</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BFA0E4.72B7D0A0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  7 16:26:28 2000
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Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 02:14:07 +0300
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Hi,

In the perspective of the theory of Fran De Aquino, ELF - gravitational interaction, it is possible to check the SMOT whether profited from the effect (not yet confirmed by experiment, officially by the author).

I think  this would be is a relatively painless setup. Place two rectangular magnet facing to each other, and put a track for a steel ball between. A typical SMOT setup.
The track should be flat, zero elevation. Put this whole setup on a sensitive fast responding balance.

Roll the ball. As path of the ball is horizontal, no vertical acceleration components
exist and cause no weight change on balance. Any of disturbance on balance scale would be understand as gravitational anomaly.


Of course, as this setup is not equivalent to SMOT and not cover its many phases, negative results does NOT means that SMOT (if it had worked) had NOT profited from electromagnetic-gravitational interaction.

   ............................
   :          __N_            :
   :         |____| __N_      :
   :            S  |____|     :
   :   ball           S       :
   :  ==O==================== :
   :                __N_      :
   :          __N_ |____|     :
   :         |____|   S       :
   :           S              : 
   :..........................:

Top view. "==" is track. The dot box is platform, and would placed on the plate of the balance.

To avoid mechanical disturbance when releasing the ball, it would practical to do with a small electromagnet which hold the ball until unpowered.

An alternative way to test electromagnetic-gravitational interaction would be simply weight an running DC perm magnet motor. :) I'll going to test it now.

Regards, hamdi ucar

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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 13:22:49 -1000
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Subject: Re: Article about Mills medical discoveries from s.p.f.
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At 5:56 PM -0400 4/7/00, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>Mills says he's since sharpened his technique to use ultrasound or magnetic
>scanners to take aim at malignant growths, and then destroy them with gamma
>rays pixel by pixel on a computer screen.

Could be a shrink-wrapped home-use softwaqre/hardware kit someday? 
Sounds like something right out of a cyber-SF story. Take your pill, 
scan yourself to locate and highlight the cancer, choose "select all" 
from the edit menu and hit the "delete" button. Repeat once or twice 
a year.

Hope this pans out!

He *is* brilliant. But can he do business?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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At 1:41 PM -0500 4/6/00, Mitchell Jones wrote:

>Question: Is Sam just a
>guy who got in over his head, is embarrassed, and lacks the character to
>admit that he messed up? Or does his failure to send out refunds as soon as
>he is able have the retroactive effect of making him a thief?

Yes, your hypothetical Sam would definitely be a thief. And Greg 
Watson definitely is a thief if he is capable of paying back the 
money but has decided to keep it instead. And given the lapse of 
time, it is beyond any reasonable doubt that he has made his choice.

Like the man said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  7 19:15:27 2000
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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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I have not been following this discussion, but I recall we paid Greg Watson
for three SMOTs and never heard a word back from him. I do not know the
total amount of money he took from everyone, but I do not think it much.
Maybe a few thousand dollars? Rick Monteverde wrote:

>At 1:41 PM -0500 4/6/00, Mitchell Jones wrote:
>
>>Question: Is Sam just a
>>guy who got in over his head, is embarrassed, and lacks the character to
>>admit that he messed up? Or does his failure to send out refunds as soon as
>>he is able have the retroactive effect of making him a thief?
>
>Yes, your hypothetical Sam would definitely be a thief. And Greg 
>Watson definitely is a thief if he is capable of paying back the 
>money but has decided to keep it instead.

I agree. More to the point, if he is not a thief he has a legal obligation
to explain his actions and apologize. "Lacking the character to admit that
he messed up . . ." is not an acceptable excuse in court, whereas a
declaration of bankrupcy is accepted. You have to formally admit you
"messed up" and you are broke, and the judge has to agree, or by definition
you are a thief.


>And given the lapse of 
>time, it is beyond any reasonable doubt that he has made his choice.

Quite right. He knows where his customers are. He has our e-mail and
snail-mail addresses.


>Like the man said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Who said that, anyway? Freud himself, wasn't it?

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr  7 21:27:18 2000
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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Article about Mills medical discoveries from s.p.f.
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 00:34:38 -0400
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Rick writes:
>Could be a shrink-wrapped home-use softwaqre/hardware kit someday? 
>Sounds like something right out of a cyber-SF story. Take your pill, 
>scan yourself to locate and highlight the cancer, choose "select all" 
>from the edit menu and hit the "delete" button. Repeat once or twice 
>a year.
>
>Hope this pans out!
>
>He *is* brilliant. But can he do business?

Well, if you believe the hype, he is brilliant.  Unfortunately for Mills,
the reality is that the cavitation people have been doing this for years
now.  Dr. D'Arrigo in this country discovered over a decade ago that by
dissolving Taxol into water soluable lipids and then cavitating them, not
only would they give much better 3-D NMR imaging resolution, but the
lipid/Taxol coated microbubbles would on their own attack cancer cells that
were considered inoperable.

Also, one of the major Japanese industrial companies (like Mitsubishi, but
don't quote me) picked up on the idea, and further developed it with
micronised iron particles attached to the microbubble walls that could be
magnetically delivered to specific tumors, and then collapsed with
ultrasound on target.  The affected cells would blow up, basically.  They
also got the microbubbles to stop at specific locations for example, at
ruptured arteries, and were able to collapse the bubbles to cauterize the
rupture, mending the artery.  It was claimed at the time to be a revolution
in drug delivery, and non-invasive surgical technique.  In each case,
whenever the bubbles were collapsed they gave off the same light that Mills
is claiming as well.  The photos that I saw of the Japanese machines
indicated that the hardware and software had already been quite highly
developed, and this was maybe five years ago.  So, really about all he can
lay claim to in this regard is the possibility of novel iron compounds, and
that is questionable if the same or better compounds have already been made
with cavitation processes.  This field is still relatively new, however, so
there is a good chance for some patents on medicines, but the lagtime
between invention and actual sales in the medicinal field is pretty long.

Given the US's practice of using the CIA to spy on foreign corporations to
steal technologies such as this, and Mill's connections in Reagan/Bush era
government, it's a bit of a surprise that Mills isn't further along with his
development of "his" newly revealed medical "revolution".  It would save him
a lot of lab work, no doubt.  Of course, when one is busy redefining
physics, inventing heaters, batteries, anti-gravity devices, doing press
interviews, buying real estate, jacking up new investors for an IPO, hand
holding old investors with promises of products and/or profits, writing
books, revising webpages for legal boo-boos, shifting paradigms and whatnot,
I supposed we could cut him some slack.  The guy just seems to be all over
the dance floor science and businesswise, and he is no Michael Jackson.  His
credibility would be greatly enhanced if he just focused on one thing
instead of re-inventing the universe, engineered one actual product, and
then either licensed it for manufacture or manufactured it himself.
Everything else is just academic vaporware, and more government funding
opportunities.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 19:25:50 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick mail.highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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At 10:08 PM -0400 4/7/00, Jed Rothwell wrote:

>Who said that, anyway? Freud himself, wasn't it?

Allegedly. I don't know if he did in fact say it. But Clinton sure 
put the ultimate backspin on the phrase.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 06:56:47 2000
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Like the man said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Who said that, anyway? Freud himself, wasn't it?

Jack writes:

And we all know who said "A rose by any other name would
smell as sweet."

Maybe Greg is a romantic and is hoping to re-appear with
grand vindication.  I think he really believed he had
discovered something.  This cheese needs more time to ripen.

Jack Smith


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 08:13:54 2000
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April 8, 2,000

Vortex,

Peter Gluck sent this along, found in his
Internet
research travels, for Vortex edification.

Thank you Peter

-ak-

 FYI, and for Vortex in case they do not
 have it-- in meantime.
 Best wishes,
 Peter

<<http://chemweb.com/alchem/2000/news/nw_000407_fusion.html>>



    About Cold Fusion Again

    Sergey Komarov
    7 April 2000


    Conversations about cold fusion —
i.e.       Related Alchemist story:
    nuclear reaction without applying
high       Hydrino - Catalyst -
    temperatures and pressure — is considered
    unseemly nowadays. But the question
about  
    the possibility of cold fusion is open to
    debate, according to an article in
    Chemistry & Life. Recently at the
    Institute of Physical Chemistry of
the       Related websites:
    Russian Academy of Sciences Dr
Andrey        Chemistry and Life
    Lipson presented new
experimental            Russian Academy of
    evidence that cold fusion exists.
The        Sciences 
    joint Russian-Japanese experiments
were      
    carried out in the Tohoku
University,        Tohoku University
    based in Sendai, using a specially
    designed accelerator which accelerated
    the deuterium atoms up to the energy of 2
    keV (with the energy dispersion of 1%
or     ChemWeb.com search results:
    less) where a PdO-Pd-Au
heterostructure      'cold fusion'
    was treated.

    As a result of a year long experiment,
    the spectrum of a sample neutron
    emanation was obtained where a
meaningful    
    peak was revealed at the energies of
    about 3 MeV (mega electron volts). The
    energy of the neutrons formed, by fusion
    of two deuterium nuclei, into a helium-3
    nucleus. The calculations showed that the
    power of the nuclear reaction was 5x10-14
    reactions per second/DD pair. Andrei
    Lipson considers, "The thermal effects
    are out of the question, and the
    phenomena observed are not interesting
    from the energetic point of view, because
    the process is not of massive character."
    The term "cold fusion" has now to
    consider as "the nuclear processes
    induced by the crystal lattice", i.e. as
    anomalous from vacuum nuclear collisions
    point of view stochastic low temperature
    nuclear processes (nuclear fusion with
    the neutrons emanation) taking place in
    the non-equilibrium solids. These
    processes are stimulated by the
    transformation of strain energy in the
    crystal lattice during phase
    transformations, mechanical effects,
    hydrogen sorption or desorption.

    The opinion of Professor Leonid
    Buchachenko from the Institute of
    Chemical Physics of Russian Academy of
    Sciences, is that this research gives
    new, more reliable and "more
    quantitative" evidence of reaction
    between deuterium nuclei in solids. At
    the same time there are still a lot of
    questions: e.g What is the mechanism of
    this phenomenon? How can the nuclei of
    deuterium overcome the Coulomb
    interaction? Why is the reaction more
    powerful in a "soft" lattice (i.e. in a
    lattice where the molecular mobility is
    high)?

    "Perhaps we need in some tunnel effect
    mechanism helping deuterium atoms to
    spring under the high but narrow
    barrier," suggested Leonid Buchachenko.
    "But," as he pointed out, "this
    phenomenon cannot be called a branching
    nuclear chain reaction."

    For additional information contact:
    Lipson Andrei lipson lmm.phyche.msk.su.

 
---------------------------------------------
    Chemistry and Life - XXI century. This
article has been  
                         translated from the
original.

    The Alchemist copyright Š 1997-2000
ChemWeb Inc.
                                All rights
reserved





>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 09:30:36 2000
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To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: High Voltage-Low Current D.C. Power Supplies
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:27:05 -0700
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Sag Harbor Industries makes a 5 kilovolt   microamperes 120 VAC input D.C. power
supply for electric spark ignition of gas appliances , about 1.0 x 0.75 x 3.0 inch potted
assembly.

This supply hooked to the copper surfaces of a PC board (4 x 6 inches) copper clad both sides
about $4.00 at Radio Shack, would make a good atmospheric Ion Collector.

Radon, Too.  :-)

 http://www.sagharborind.com/

Running water over the board  surfaces should take off the ions, and "dissolve"
them in the water used for CF/OU experiments.

Regards,    Frederick

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 10:06:05 2000
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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 12:04:06 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
Resent-Message-ID: <"6mO352.0.H92.wQsxu" mx1>
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>At 1:41 PM -0500 4/6/00, Mitchell Jones wrote:
>
>>Question: Is Sam just a
>>guy who got in over his head, is embarrassed, and lacks the character to
>>admit that he messed up? Or does his failure to send out refunds as soon as
>>he is able have the retroactive effect of making him a thief?
>
>Yes, your hypothetical Sam would definitely be a thief.
>Watson definitely is a thief if he is capable of paying back the
>money but has decided to keep it instead.

***{The reason I made the example hypothetical is precisely because we have
not heard Greg Watson's side of the story, and I am glad that you respected
that fact by using the word "if" in the above sentence.

Nevertheless, while I am glad you are speaking in somewhat measured tones
about this, I must once again stress that, technically speaking, this is
*not* theft--or even fraud for that matter. Both require premeditation. One
cannot, in fact, retroactively become either a thief or a con man by
failing to repay funds subsequent to a failure to perform. One would have
to demonstrate in a court that there was never an intention to perform, in
order to demonstrate fraud, which would be the only viable possibility
here. (A thief simply takes what he wants when the owner is not
looking--which means: he employs stealth, not deceit.) An example of fraud
would be the common scam of selling "hot" goods out of the back of a truck
in a parking lot. You show the sucker a nice TV, quote him a really great
price which he believes because he thinks the goods are stolen, take his
money, and give him a box which, when he gets home, he discovers contains a
few bricks, rather than a TV. In such cases, intent to defraud is proven by
the presence of the bricks in the box.

Bottom line: charging Greg Watson with theft is not an option, because
theft is precluded by definition. If you think he is guilty of a criminal
act, the only viable charge would be one of fraud, but, at this remove, it
would be damned hard to prove.

--Mitchell Jones}***

And given the lapse of
>time, it is beyond any reasonable doubt that he has made his choice.

***{The odds are strong that the man is a deadbeat: he apparently failed to
repay monies tendered subsequent to his failure to perform. But unless you
have evidence that he took something of value while the owner was not
looking, you have no basis for charging him with theft; and unless you have
evidence that he never intended to deliver the devices which he promised,
you have no basis for charging him with fraud. While I applaud you for the
qualifiers you inserted in your comments, it still looks to me like you are
making the man out to be worse than he is. --MJ}***

>
>Like the man said, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

***{And sometimes a deadbeat is just a deadbeat. :-) --MJ}***

>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 10:11:55 2000
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Message-Id: <200004081719.MAA02739 cablecom.pearlriver.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 11:11:38 CST
From: John N <jrneer freewwweb.com>
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	Mitchell Jones wrote:

>
> ***{Where does the electron of a normal hydrogen go when it interacts with
> other atoms to form a compound? I would assume that the electron of a
> hydrino would behave the same way, if the hydrino exists. --MJ}***

Ed Storms wrote

>.  So, how does the hydrino form compounds?  What
>kind of interaction is possible?  I suggest this question needs serious
>attention from a chemical viewpoint.

     As everyone knows ...

     The magnitude of the original Bohr equation, arbitrarily
equating Coulombic and centripetal forces, can be written

                      ke**2/r**2    =  mv**2/r       

     which, using mvr = nh_bar, leads to energy levels       

                             E  =  k'e**4 /n**2

   Notice that both v and r are not present in the E equation, having been
removed via the use of mvr = nh_bar. 

   This means that any v can be used, specifically c = speed of light, and
the derivation will produce the same energy result..

   Restating,

                    ke**2/r**2  =  mc**2/r     

  (notice c) will derive the same energy equation using 

                        mcr = nh_bar. 

   The atom loses its  *dynamic*  (whizzing electron) nature.because
the quantization is no longer angular momentum, but nothing else changes.

   The fact that the Bohr energy levels can be derived from c, rather than v, 
should be a tip-off that certain long established ideas within qm are arbitrary,
and adherence to such not necessarily helpful in understanding the Mills
spectra or a CF event.

>> So, how does the hydrino form compounds? 

   Suppose we take

                           E  = k' e**4/n**2  

 and substitute a double dose of a positive charge in the result. Thus,
remembering proton - electron origin,

   E = k(2p)**2 (e)**2 / n**2   =  4ke**4/n**2 ,   

        = 4ke**4        (for n = 1, positive charge  = 2)

Or, separately, using n = 1/2, not recognizing that there are now two positive 
charges where there is supposed to be one, 

   E  = ke**4/(1/2)**2  

        = 4ke**4          (for n = 1/2, positive charge = 1)

    The presence of a (possibly unrecognized, but at least less publicized) 
second positive charge is the cause of the abnormal spectra. Or, at worst,
is a counter explanation with as much status as fractional energy levels.
The abnormal spectra exist. There is a cause.
 
    The abnormal hydrogen bonds fairly normally as a double positive. 

    The second positive is a positron. 

    John N

Aside:

    There is a Mills spectra available from Pd-D2. 
    Electron - positron annihilation initiates a CF event. 

   A useful predictive tool is to treat the host atom as some internal element 
(a core sphere) surrounded by electron spheres of the outer shell. The systems
(D+positron) or (p+positron) simply nestle into the outer spheres and will 
be stable as long as the outside environment is either nothing or has electrons
from an outer shell adequately similar to those in the host outer shell (which 
don't annihilate with this positron).

    The only element pertinent to CF is a mechanism which enhances efficiency
of the experiment. 

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Subject: Another use for electric noise random number generation
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A quote from:

PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 478  April 6, 2000   by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein

AN ELECTRICAL CIRCUIT MIMICS YEN-DOLLAR
FLUCTUATIONS.  In one of the latest examples of econophysics
(Update 395), Hideki Takayasu of the Sony Computer Science
Laboratories in Japan (takayasu csl.sony.co.jp)  and his
colleagues have designed an electrical circuit with voltage
fluctuations that are highly similar to the fluctuations in a plot of
the yen-dollar exchange rate. The Sony goal is to build a fast
calculator for the prices of options which depend on exchange
rates.  In the world of currency exchange, options serve as an
insurance policy for a future exchange rate.  Buying an option
means that you have the right to purchase currency at some point
in the future at a predetermined price, even if the actual exchange
rate at the time is against your favor.  At the recent APS meeting in
Minneapolis, Takayasu showed that graphs of yen-dollar
fluctuations look remarkably similar at different time scales,
suggesting a fractal behavior.  The researchers then designed an
inexpensive electrical circuit that produces highly similar
fluctuations by employing naturally occurring electrical noise as
the seeds for random variations.  Their circuit costs approximately
$5, and it can estimate yen-dollar fluctuations as fast as the
$10,000 workstations that are running mathematical simulations of
the exchange rates.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 15:28:08 2000
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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 12:26:48 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick mail.highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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Mitchell - lots of ASCII, a few hairs split.

A deadbeat with the ability to make restitution is equivalent to a 
thief in my book. But, apparently your milage varies, and I 
acknowledge that. I don't need to post any more on this.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 15:50:11 2000
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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 17:47:25 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT, how big a ripoff?
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>Mitchell - lots of ASCII, a few hairs split.
>
>A deadbeat with the ability to make restitution is equivalent to a
>thief in my book. But, apparently your milage varies, and I
>acknowledge that. I don't need to post any more on this.

***{I'm sorry if I seemed to drive the point into the ground. Jed is the
one who got my hackles up about exaggerating the faults of others, when he
launched his fusillade at Mills. You are an exemplar of moderation, by
comparison. :-) --MJ}***

>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr  8 16:41:10 2000
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From: dtmiller midiowa.net (Dean T. Miller)
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: High Voltage-Low Current D.C. Power Supplies
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 23:39:52 GMT
Organization: Miller and Associates
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On Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:27:05 -0700, "Frederick Sparber"
<fjsparber earthlink.net> wrote:

>Sag Harbor Industries makes a 5 kilovolt   microamperes 120 VAC input D.C. power
>supply for electric spark ignition of gas appliances , about 1.0 x 0.75 x 3.0 inch potted
>assembly.

All Electronics (http://www.allelectronics.com) has a potted 7.5Kv
ionizer supply for $4.50.  (it's on the front page of their current
catalog #200)

-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines  (CDP, KB0ZDF)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr  9 10:45:32 2000
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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT  -  Slightly OT.
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On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Roger Weichert wrote:

> G'day Glenville and all,
> 
> Thanks for filling in some of the details about Greg Watson .
> 
> I have just one question. Did you ever see the SMOT setup in real life ?


Did *ANYONE* see one in operation?

It's understandable that he wouldn't 

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT  -  Slightly OT.
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On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, William Beaty wrote:

> 
> Did *ANYONE* see one in operation?
> 
> It's understandable that he wouldn't 

Oops, hit Send instead of Cancel.

Anyway...  it's somewhat understandable that he wouldn't post videos of an
operating device.  It certainly would attract attention from far beyond
the list, and if I were in his shoes, I'd think hard before bringing in
massive publicity early. (But I might do it anyway.)  But talking about
the success, and showing it privately to friends and colleagues, is
something different!  If I achieved a rollaround, to say nothing of
hours-long operation, I'd be dragging people in to see it (including the
neighbors!), pushing NDAs left and right, and excitedly jabbering a blue
streak about it.  Greg never did this.  He didn't ACT as if he achieved
success.  By this I mean that he didn't act like *I* would have acted.

This might be explained by his secretive behavior.  But sometimes secrecy
is just an act, and it hides dishonesty, so when any inventor is being
secretive, there is always reason not to be entirely trusting.  And
UNNECESSARY secrecy is a major clue to lies in progress, or pathological
science (self-lies, rather than intentional lies.)


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
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Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr  9 11:49:32 2000
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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Gravity Drive Need Not Violate First Law
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In comments recently quoted here (Friday, 31 Mar 00), Robert Park said:

3. WARP DRIVE: THE BRITS ALSO PURSUE PROPELLANTLESS PROPULSION. If the laws
of physics are standing in the way of progress, it's time to change the
laws of physics.  Clearly, spewing out rocket propellant isn't getting us
to the stars.  So BAE Systems, formed by merging British Aerospace with
Marconi Electronic Systems, created "Project Greenglow," patterned after
NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program (WN 20 Nov 98).  Like BPP,
BAE is attempting to replicate the Podkletnov gravity shield (WN 15 Aug
97).  If you can build a gravity shield, of course, you can build a
perpetual motion machine thus defeating the First Law of Thermodynamics.
It won't be the first war the Brits have lost.

***{If gravity is a push caused by microparticles raining down on us from
deep space, a gravity shield would be no more violative of the first law
than would a windmill or a water wheel. Indeed, you could then build a
"gravity wheel" by simply placing your shield over one half of a water
wheel, and eliminating the water. :-) --MJ}***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr  9 14:30:37 2000
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Subject: Re: Greg Watson & SMOT  -  Slightly OT.
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I did checked his email. Mail bounced, account gwatson microtronics.com.au no longer exist. This not prove anything but, keep open the possibility that the case is not restricted to fraud or mis-commitment. I think this is a case that we can find whether 
it was a suppression or fraud by an investigation on G.Watson. If this is a suppression, we have to learn too much about the case. 

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 01:21:41 2000
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFA2CC.7C3A8020
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi All,
        Someone forwarded this message to me...
    I checked the whole site but there was nary a mention of a SMOT, =
DMEC or any new energy stuff. I have emailed him; perhaps others would =
like to as well?

Nick Palmer

---------------------------
Hi Jim,
           Here's his latest web page:
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson/index.html

Maybe he'll respond to a timely reminder of his debts.

Regards,
        Tony.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi All,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Someone =
forwarded this=20
message to me...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I checked the whole =
site but=20
there was nary a mention of a SMOT, DMEC or any new energy stuff. I have =
emailed=20
him; perhaps others would like to as well?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nick Palmer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>---------------------------<BR>Hi=20
Jim,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Here's his=20
latest web page:<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.ozemail.com.au/~gowatson/index.html">http://www.ozemai=
l.com.au/~gowatson/index.html</A><BR><BR>Maybe=20
he'll respond to a timely reminder of his=20
debts.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Tony.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
---------</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BFA2CC.7C3A8020--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 08:38:09 2000
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From: "Adam Cox" <merlyn_x hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:35:32 CDT
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Thank you everyone for the information, I hope to make use of it soon.

I am sorry though that at this time I am not confident enough in my theory 
to elucidate further on the actual device.

Adam Cox

PS no, i don't have much background in electronics.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Mitchell Jones wrote:
>>In comments recently quoted here (Friday, 31 Mar 00), Robert Park said:

>>3. WARP DRIVE: THE BRITS ALSO PURSUE PROPELLANTLESS PROPULSION. If the
laws
>>of physics are standing in the way of progress, it's time to change the
>>laws of physics.  Clearly, spewing out rocket propellant isn't getting us
>>to the stars.  So BAE Systems, formed by merging British Aerospace with
>>Marconi Electronic Systems, created "Project Greenglow," patterned after
>>NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program (WN 20 Nov 98).  Like BPP,
>>BAE is attempting to replicate the Podkletnov gravity shield (WN 15 Aug
>>97).  If you can build a gravity shield, of course, you can build a
>>perpetual motion machine thus defeating the First Law of Thermodynamics.
>>It won't be the first war the Brits have lost.

***{If gravity is a push caused by microparticles raining down on us from
deep space, a gravity shield would be no more violative of the first law
than would a windmill or a water wheel. Indeed, you could then build a
"gravity wheel" by simply placing your shield over one half of a water
wheel, and eliminating the water. :-) --MJ}***

Actually you don't even have to go that far.  A gravity shield does not
inherently require over-unity energy.  If such a field was created by a
process with an expenditure of energy (the precise mechanism is arbitrary,
Podkletnov shield is an example), then you have a net loss of energy in the
system and therefore no perpetual motion machine.  I'm not sure why Park
chooses an argument as specious as this when he could probably ridicule it
in a more straightforward way :)

Steven Florek

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Mr. Stirniman:
Where might one find these "recent reports"?  This is of specific interest to me.  Thank you. 

---
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes



On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:13:18   Robert Stirniman wrote:

>Recent reports of development of negative permittivity, in spaces
>which are connected with chiral geometries of conductors and
>dielectrics may be related to the same principal. 



HotBot - Search smarter.
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"Florek, Steven" wrote:

> Mitchell Jones wrote:
> >>In comments recently quoted here (Friday, 31 Mar 00), Robert Park said:
>
> >>3. WARP DRIVE: THE BRITS ALSO PURSUE PROPELLANTLESS PROPULSION. If the
> laws
> >>of physics are standing in the way of progress, it's time to change the
> >>laws of physics.  Clearly, spewing out rocket propellant isn't getting us
> >>to the stars.  So BAE Systems, formed by merging British Aerospace with
> >>Marconi Electronic Systems, created "Project Greenglow," patterned after
> >>NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program (WN 20 Nov 98).  Like BPP,
> >>BAE is attempting to replicate the Podkletnov gravity shield (WN 15 Aug
> >>97).  If you can build a gravity shield, of course, you can build a
> >>perpetual motion machine thus defeating the First Law of Thermodynamics.
> >>It won't be the first war the Brits have lost.
>
> ***{If gravity is a push caused by microparticles raining down on us from
> deep space, a gravity shield would be no more violative of the first law
> than would a windmill or a water wheel. Indeed, you could then build a
> "gravity wheel" by simply placing your shield over one half of a water
> wheel, and eliminating the water. :-) --MJ}***
>
> Actually you don't even have to go that far.  A gravity shield does not
> inherently require over-unity energy.  If such a field was created by a
> process with an expenditure of energy (the precise mechanism is arbitrary,
> Podkletnov shield is an example), then you have a net loss of energy in the
> system and therefore no perpetual motion machine.  I'm not sure why Park
> chooses an argument as specious as this when he could probably ridicule it
> in a more straightforward way :)

The reason is that Park does not understand the Laws of Thermodynamics, an
ignorance he demonstrates repeatedly in his book, Voodoo Science. Apparently
he uses this method only because it sounds good to the lay reader.  Frankly, I
can not understand why people take such interest in what this man says or
believes.  In any case, please excuse my frustration with the subject.

Ed Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 14:22:03 2000
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Image too big, but I've forwarded your msg to vortex-L (below)



On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Robert Stirniman wrote:

> Here is another interesting example of vacuum engineering.
> Attached is a diagram of a Penning Trap. (Sorry for the bandwidth.)
> Note the similarity with the gravity-warp capacitor.
>  
> In 1973, Hans Dehmelt managed to trap an electron (actually
> a positron) in a device similar to this. The device provides an
> extremely accurate measurement of the electron's gyrotropic spin
> ratio (angular momentum to magnetic moment). Dehmelt measured
> this "constant" to an accuracy of 12 decimal places. His finding
> did not coincide with quantum theory -- which predicts a value
> of exactly 2. Instead, Dehmelt measured: g/2 = 1.01159652188(4).
>  
> For a time, it was thought that Dehmelt's measurement was an
> accurate representation of the electron's gyrotropic ratio.
> But, now we believe again that theory is right. The correct
> ratio is 2. Also we have found that the measurement of the electron's
> gyrotropic ratio in this type of device varies to some extent with
> the geometry of the device. Physicists have developed wonderful
> explanations for this: anomalous cyclotron frequency, anomalous
> magnetic moment, cylindrical vacuum modes, etc.
>  
> No matter how you model it, is a clear enough demonstration
> that the characteristics of the physical vacuum are different
> inside the device. The charge to mass ratio of the electron
> appears to be different. Further, the difference in charge
> to mass ratio is not attributed to a Lorentz boost in
> mass, because the electron trapped in the device is at nearly
> zero temperature -- with very low velocity.
>  
> I suggest an alternative physical model. We can engineer the 
> ratio of electrical permittivity to gravitational permittivity.
> The root of this ratio has the dimensions of charge to mass. 
> Root(epsilon0/epsilon-g), where epsilon-g is the same as 1/(4Pi)G.
> 
> Perhaps one of the reasons we have always had difficulty
> establishing an exact value for the gravitational constant
> (G) is that it is NOT a constant. And probably epsilon0 is
> also not a constant.
>  
> Recognizing that epsilon0 is measured in farads per meter,
> and seeing that the space inside this device is surrounded
> by a capacitance which can be measured in farads per meter,
> perhaps it is not such a stretch to suggest that epsilon0
> may have a different value inside the device.
> 
> Further, I can see this in the gravitational-warp capacitor.
> There is not enough elelectrical potential difference
> available to account for the amount of electrical
> flux within the device. Ditto for the magnetic dual.
> There is not enough mmf to acount for the magnetic flux.
>  
> Anyone want to launch something?
>  
> Regards,
> Robert Stirniman
> 

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 14:38:41 2000
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Greg Watson <gowatson ozemail.com.au>
To: Nick Palmer <nick7 itl.net>
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: To Greg Watson


> > Nick Palmer wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Greg,
> >            Here is a copy of a message I sent you some time ago -
> > discovering, by doing so that your old email and web page addresses no
> > longer worked.
> 
> Hi Nick,
> 
> Good to hear from you.  My old web site was taken down by my then ISP
> and a hard disk crash lost most of my files.
> 
> If you would provide me with your banking details, I will arrange to get
> your money back + Aus $50 to cover lost interest & inconvenience.
> 
> I'm not a crook and will refund all the money I collected.  I'm sorry I
> can't provide the devices as promised.  One day I may be able to write a
> book.
> 
> I would appreciate it if you would forward this email to the Free Energy
> & Vortex group.  My gowatson hotmail.com email is still valid.
> 
> All the Best,
>  Greg Watson

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 14:42:51 2000
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From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <stk sunherald.infi.net>
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Subject: Re: Gravity Drive Need Not Violate First Law
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> The reason is that Park does not understand the Laws of Thermodynamics,
an
> ignorance he demonstrates repeatedly in his book, Voodoo Science.
Apparently
> he uses this method only because it sounds good to the lay reader. 
Frankly, I
> can not understand why people take such interest in what this man says or
> believes.  In any case, please excuse my frustration with the subject.

Your frustration is absolutely understandable. Park is what my
great-grandfather would call an "educated idiot," a person with plenty of
book knowledge but not enough common sense or application sense to get out
of a well lit room. Park gets the "gravity modification causes perpetual
motion" and "gravity modification is impossible" ideas from ignoring facts:

1. He does not seem to understand that the device requires input energy to
produce the effect (as Steven Florek pointed out) I guess park is saying we
can't have water wheels, or electric motors, as they produce motion. But
they all require input energy, the Podkletnov/Schnurer setups as well.

2. It doesn't matter what is theorized, in the end the experiment wins out.
Funny, I seem to recall Park himself said this was true in his book. He
seems to be forgetting regularly...perhaps a sign of early insanity?

3. He obviously did not read the papers by Podkletnov, Schnurer, and
Modanese. They specifically said there was a wall of resistance at the edge
of the effect region that had to be overcome to get access to the lessened
gravity region. This would probably prevent Park's flywheel from happening.
This is the point that really irritates me. No one reads the papers
CAREFULLY before making judgements.

Apologies for the rant.
--Kyle R. Mcallister

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 14:49:58 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:53:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: You ought to READ the papers. , Gravity Drive Need Not Violate First , Law
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	Dear Folks,

	Every so often someone will ask me, or ask of the Gravity Society 

[    www.gravity.org    ]

	about Podkletnov's work.  Quite often people suggest to put a
wheel in the lessened gravity ... to see it go  'round and 'round.

	I begin with the same suggestion to them.
	READ THE PAPERS... ALL THE PAPERS written by Eugene Podkletnov and
Giovanni Modanese, together and single.

	Then you will have the answer.  The 'short form' is ...

	If you move into the area of lessened gravity from thrside, you
have to exert fource until you get to the lessened part... and it is a
break even of the two... no loss, no gain.

				J

On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Mitchell Jones wrote:

> In comments recently quoted here (Friday, 31 Mar 00), Robert Park said:
> 
> 3. WARP DRIVE: THE BRITS ALSO PURSUE PROPELLANTLESS PROPULSION. If the laws
> of physics are standing in the way of progress, it's time to change the
> laws of physics.  Clearly, spewing out rocket propellant isn't getting us
> to the stars.  So BAE Systems, formed by merging British Aerospace with
> Marconi Electronic Systems, created "Project Greenglow," patterned after
> NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program (WN 20 Nov 98).  Like BPP,
> BAE is attempting to replicate the Podkletnov gravity shield (WN 15 Aug
> 97).  If you can build a gravity shield, of course, you can build a
> perpetual motion machine thus defeating the First Law of Thermodynamics.
> It won't be the first war the Brits have lost.
> 
> ***{If gravity is a push caused by microparticles raining down on us from
> deep space, a gravity shield would be no more violative of the first law
> than would a windmill or a water wheel. Indeed, you could then build a
> "gravity wheel" by simply placing your shield over one half of a water
> wheel, and eliminating the water. :-) --MJ}***
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 16:24:05 2000
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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:21:16 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor
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>Image too big

***{A good diagram may be found at
http://www.aip.org/physnews/preview/1997/dpp97/penning.htm. --MJ}***

, but I've forwarded your msg to vortex-L (below)
>
>
>
>On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Robert Stirniman wrote:
>
>> Here is another interesting example of vacuum engineering.
>> Attached is a diagram of a Penning Trap. (Sorry for the bandwidth.)
>> Note the similarity with the gravity-warp capacitor.

***{Correct, but the differences are also very large. Based on the diagram
cited above, the plate order is + - - + in the Penning Trap, whereas it was
+ - + -, through almost 400 iterations, in the Gravity-warp Capacitor.
--MJ}***

>>
>> In 1973, Hans Dehmelt managed to trap an electron (actually
>> a positron) in a device similar to this. The device provides an
>> extremely accurate measurement of the electron's gyrotropic spin
>> ratio (angular momentum to magnetic moment). Dehmelt measured
>> this "constant" to an accuracy of 12 decimal places. His finding
>> did not coincide with quantum theory -- which predicts a value
>> of exactly 2. Instead, Dehmelt measured: g/2 = 1.01159652188(4).
>>
>> For a time, it was thought that Dehmelt's measurement was an
>> accurate representation of the electron's gyrotropic ratio.
>> But, now we believe again that theory is right. The correct
>> ratio is 2. Also we have found that the measurement of the electron's
>> gyrotropic ratio in this type of device varies to some extent with
>> the geometry of the device. Physicists have developed wonderful
>> explanations for this: anomalous cyclotron frequency, anomalous
>> magnetic moment, cylindrical vacuum modes, etc.
>>
>> No matter how you model it, is a clear enough demonstration
>> that the characteristics of the physical vacuum are different
>> inside the device. The charge to mass ratio of the electron
>> appears to be different. Further, the difference in charge
>> to mass ratio is not attributed to a Lorentz boost in
>> mass, because the electron trapped in the device is at nearly
>> zero temperature -- with very low velocity.
>>
>> I suggest an alternative physical model. We can engineer the
>> ratio of electrical permittivity to gravitational permittivity.
>> The root of this ratio has the dimensions of charge to mass.
>> Root(epsilon0/epsilon-g), where epsilon-g is the same as 1/(4Pi)G.
>>
>> Perhaps one of the reasons we have always had difficulty
>> establishing an exact value for the gravitational constant
>> (G) is that it is NOT a constant. And probably epsilon0 is
>> also not a constant.
>>
>> Recognizing that epsilon0 is measured in farads per meter,
>> and seeing that the space inside this device is surrounded
>> by a capacitance which can be measured in farads per meter,
>> perhaps it is not such a stretch to suggest that epsilon0
>> may have a different value inside the device.
>>
>> Further, I can see this in the gravitational-warp capacitor.
>> There is not enough elelectrical potential difference
>> available to account for the amount of electrical
>> flux within the device. Ditto for the magnetic dual.
>> There is not enough mmf to acount for the magnetic flux.
>>
>> Anyone want to launch something?

***{If a relatively benign looking device such as the Penning Trap produces
anomalous behavior, the Gravity-warp Capacitor would seem to merit
examination. The last I heard, Bill Beaty was trying to repossess some tin
foil he had loaned out, so he could attempt a replication. How about it,
Bill. Any progress? --MJ}***

>>
>> Regards,
>> Robert Stirniman
>>
>
>((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
>William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
>billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
>EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
>Seattle, WA   206-781-3320          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 16:46:42 2000
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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: To Greg Watson
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>----- Original Message -----
>From: Greg Watson <gowatson ozemail.com.au>
>To: Nick Palmer <nick7 itl.net>
>Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:40 AM
>Subject: Re: To Greg Watson
>
>
>> > Nick Palmer wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Greg,
>> >            Here is a copy of a message I sent you some time ago -
>> > discovering, by doing so that your old email and web page addresses no
>> > longer worked.
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> Good to hear from you.  My old web site was taken down by my then ISP
>> and a hard disk crash lost most of my files.
>>
>> If you would provide me with your banking details, I will arrange to get
>> your money back + Aus $50 to cover lost interest & inconvenience.
>>
>> I'm not a crook and will refund all the money I collected.  I'm sorry I
>> can't provide the devices as promised.  One day I may be able to write a
>> book.
>>
>> I would appreciate it if you would forward this email to the Free Energy
>> & Vortex group.  My gowatson hotmail.com email is still valid.
>>
>> All the Best,
>>  Greg Watson

***{And there you have it, folks: the case for lynching Greg Watson becomes
far less compelling as soon as you hear his side of the story. (If he lost
the names and addresses of those who sent him money due to a disk crash, it
is a reasonable decision to wait for people to actually ask for refunds.
You can't very well post an offer on the internet to send $150 to anyone
who asks for it!) For the young and impetuous, this result may come as a
surprise. For old goats such as myself, on the other hand, it is entirely
to be expected. I hope this serves as a lesson to those of you who were
ready to hang this guy without a trial. (This is a subject that Jed
Rothwell, in particular, needs to focus on, given his demonstrated
willingness to villify Mills and Newman on the basis of gossip and
hearsay.)  --MJ}***

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Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:34:38 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: You ought to READ the papers. , Gravity Drive Need Not
 Violate First , Law
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>	Dear Folks,
>
>	Every so often someone will ask me, or ask of the Gravity Society
>
>[    www.gravity.org    ]
>
>	about Podkletnov's work.  Quite often people suggest to put a
>wheel in the lessened gravity ... to see it go  'round and 'round.
>
>	I begin with the same suggestion to them.
>	READ THE PAPERS... ALL THE PAPERS written by Eugene Podkletnov and
>Giovanni Modanese, together and single.
>
>	Then you will have the answer.  The 'short form' is ...
>
>	If you move into the area of lessened gravity from thrside, you
>have to exert fource until you get to the lessened part... and it is a
>break even of the two... no loss, no gain.
>
>				J

***{My point was simply that the validity of Robert Park's claim of a first
law violation depended on the nature of the causal process underlying
gravity. I know nothing of Podkletnov's work, and no reference to it was
intended. --MJ}***

>
>On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Mitchell Jones wrote:
>
>> In comments recently quoted here (Friday, 31 Mar 00), Robert Park said:
>>
>> 3. WARP DRIVE: THE BRITS ALSO PURSUE PROPELLANTLESS PROPULSION. If the laws
>> of physics are standing in the way of progress, it's time to change the
>> laws of physics.  Clearly, spewing out rocket propellant isn't getting us
>> to the stars.  So BAE Systems, formed by merging British Aerospace with
>> Marconi Electronic Systems, created "Project Greenglow," patterned after
>> NASA's Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program (WN 20 Nov 98).  Like BPP,
>> BAE is attempting to replicate the Podkletnov gravity shield (WN 15 Aug
>> 97).  If you can build a gravity shield, of course, you can build a
>> perpetual motion machine thus defeating the First Law of Thermodynamics.
>> It won't be the first war the Brits have lost.
>>
>> ***{If gravity is a push caused by microparticles raining down on us from
>> deep space, a gravity shield would be no more violative of the first law
>> than would a windmill or a water wheel. Indeed, you could then build a
>> "gravity wheel" by simply placing your shield over one half of a water
>> wheel, and eliminating the water. :-) --MJ}***
>>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 17:17:53 2000
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Reply-To: "Sparky" <sparky dtech-net.com>
From: "Keith Nagel" <sparky dtech-net.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Fw: To Greg Watson
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Boy Mitch, you have a short memory...

Greg has been promising people a return of their
money for a long time now. In fact a german who I
don't see much on the list now, Stephan Hartmann,
conducted a protracted email and phone campaign
to get his money back. Plenty of promises like the
one above, no results. This is all documented in
the vort and freenrg archives, so please look there before
you begin your usual barrage of argumentative
emails.

I for one don't dislike the man, nor do I much
like him. I posted this on freenrg and I
should do the same here, it's an archive of
the greg watson saga...

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7389/

I don't know anything about the author or why it
was made, but its a great history of the events
surrounding gregs little business venture. 
As the site points out, the best way to understand
this is to read it "in his own words..." 

K.

PS: Greg owes me no money. If he did, I'd likely move
from neutral to dislike. But it takes two to dance you know.



-----Original Message-----
From: Mitchell Jones [mailto:mjones jump.net]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 7:44 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Fw: To Greg Watson


>----- Original Message -----
>From: Greg Watson <gowatson ozemail.com.au>
>To: Nick Palmer <nick7 itl.net>
>Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 9:40 AM
>Subject: Re: To Greg Watson
>
>
>> > Nick Palmer wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Greg,
>> >            Here is a copy of a message I sent you some time ago -
>> > discovering, by doing so that your old email and web page addresses no
>> > longer worked.
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> Good to hear from you.  My old web site was taken down by my then ISP
>> and a hard disk crash lost most of my files.
>>
>> If you would provide me with your banking details, I will arrange to get
>> your money back + Aus $50 to cover lost interest & inconvenience.
>>
>> I'm not a crook and will refund all the money I collected.  I'm sorry I
>> can't provide the devices as promised.  One day I may be able to write a
>> book.
>>
>> I would appreciate it if you would forward this email to the Free Energy
>> & Vortex group.  My gowatson hotmail.com email is still valid.
>>
>> All the Best,
>>  Greg Watson

***{And there you have it, folks: the case for lynching Greg Watson becomes
far less compelling as soon as you hear his side of the story. (If he lost
the names and addresses of those who sent him money due to a disk crash, it
is a reasonable decision to wait for people to actually ask for refunds.
You can't very well post an offer on the internet to send $150 to anyone
who asks for it!) For the young and impetuous, this result may come as a
surprise. For old goats such as myself, on the other hand, it is entirely
to be expected. I hope this serves as a lesson to those of you who were
ready to hang this guy without a trial. (This is a subject that Jed
Rothwell, in particular, needs to focus on, given his demonstrated
willingness to villify Mills and Newman on the basis of gossip and
hearsay.)  --MJ}***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 18:12:20 2000
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Gravity Drive Need Not Violate First Law
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:06:25 +1000
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On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:54:01 -0700, Florek, Steven wrote:
[snip]
>Actually you don't even have to go that far.  A gravity shield does not
>inherently require over-unity energy.  If such a field was created by a
>process with an expenditure of energy (the precise mechanism is arbitrary,
>Podkletnov shield is an example), then you have a net loss of energy in the
>system and therefore no perpetual motion machine.  I'm not sure why Park
>chooses an argument as specious as this when he could probably ridicule it
>in a more straightforward way :)
>
>Steven Florek
Probably because he knows what you have written is beyond reproach.
(I.e. it already exists and works, and he knows it, so all he can ridicule
is a straw man).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 11:20:03 +1000
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On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:21:16 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote:
[snip]

>>Image too big
>
>***{A good diagram may be found at
>http://www.aip.org/physnews/preview/1997/dpp97/penning.htm. --MJ}***
>
>, but I've forwarded your msg to vortex-L (below)
[snip]
Has this concept been tried as a hot fusion device? (electrons would tend to
leak out the ends, leaving only positively charged nuclei in the trap).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 18:42:56 2000
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, "Robert Stirniman" <robert@skylink.net>
Subject: RE: gravity-warp capacitor 
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:40:51 -0700
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Hi Robert and all,
>
> > Here is another interesting example of vacuum engineering.
> > Attached is a diagram of a Penning Trap. (Sorry for the bandwidth.)
> > Note the similarity with the gravity-warp capacitor.

Too bad, I would like to see this picture. I'll look in the servers.
> >
> > In 1973, Hans Dehmelt managed to trap an electron (actually
> > a positron) in a device similar to this. The device provides an
> > extremely accurate measurement of the electron's gyrotropic spin
> > ratio (angular momentum to magnetic moment). Dehmelt measured
> > this "constant" to an accuracy of 12 decimal places. His finding
> > did not coincide with quantum theory -- which predicts a value
> > of exactly 2. Instead, Dehmelt measured: g/2 = 1.01159652188(4).
> >
> > For a time, it was thought that Dehmelt's measurement was an
> > accurate representation of the electron's gyrotropic ratio.
> > But, now we believe again that theory is right.

Huh, I wasn't aware that opinion on the 'gyromagnetic anomaly' had changed.
Do you have any references on this shift? Of course I'll look for myself.
I'd suggested early in the vortex-C list proceedings that torsion fields
could alter the spin rate of electrons and further that what are called
"vibrational levels" of different realities in new age lingo actually have
the specific meaning of electron spin ratios-- like harmonics of spin. The
other realities co-exist with this one and alteration of the spin ratios of
matter allows this matter to be moved out of this reality and into one with
a higher spin rate. It also allows the inertial properties of matter to be
changed. These things occur in the Hutchison and Zinsser effects as well as
some lesser known experiments.
I've seen nothing to change my mind on this and a great deal to corroborate
it.

 The correct
> > ratio is 2.

And is there some experimental arrangement that shows this? Or is this only
theoretical?

 Also we have found that the measurement of the electron's
> > gyrotropic ratio in this type of device varies to some extent with
> > the geometry of the device.

Wonder what it would be, measured in a Cheops-type pyramid :-)
> >
> > No matter how you model it, is a clear enough demonstration
> > that the characteristics of the physical vacuum are different
> > inside the device. The charge to mass ratio of the electron
> > appears to be different. Further, the difference in charge
> > to mass ratio is not attributed to a Lorentz boost in
> > mass, because the electron trapped in the device is at nearly
> > zero temperature -- with very low velocity.

All this in fact does remind me of experiments done inside pyramid
structures which show large changes in inertial constants as seen in chart
recordings of  a motorized gyroscope. Also, masses suspended inside a
pyramid PUSH APART over time.
Discussion of pyramids is justified since we are talking about engineering
of space with geometry. The occult world has known this for millennia. You
asked for it :-)
> >
> > I suggest an alternative physical model. We can engineer the
> > ratio of electrical permittivity to gravitational permittivity.
> > The root of this ratio has the dimensions of charge to mass.
> > Root(epsilon0/epsilon-g), where epsilon-g is the same as 1/(4Pi)G.
> >
> > Perhaps one of the reasons we have always had difficulty
> > establishing an exact value for the gravitational constant
> > (G) is that it is NOT a constant. And probably epsilon0 is
> > also not a constant.

As far as I can see, if these things are not constant then the time rate is
not constant as well, since time in any particular system is only known by
space and mass relationships within it.

> >
> > Recognizing that epsilon0 is measured in farads per meter,
> > and seeing that the space inside this device is surrounded
> > by a capacitance which can be measured in farads per meter,
> > perhaps it is not such a stretch to suggest that epsilon0
> > may have a different value inside the device.

This would explain the findings of Reich who discovered electroscope
anomalies around orgone accumulators (capacitor like structures) and
alterations in the ionization potential of gasses in sealed tubes placed in
an orac.
The electrostatic gradiometer of Bob Shannon, which we have successfully
used to find natural "vortex points" (torsion generators?) measures, as the
name implies, the voltage gradient within the area of the test probes.
> >
> > Further, I can see this in the gravitational-warp capacitor.
> > There is not enough elelectrical potential difference
> > available to account for the amount of electrical
> > flux within the device. Ditto for the magnetic dual.
> > There is not enough mmf to acount for the magnetic flux.

All this remains in abeyance as far as the gravity capacitor is concerned
but it is perfectly applicable to the already proven Biefeld-Brown effect.
The "Electrogavitics Report" at
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/elecgrav.htm says:

"The original Brown rig produced 30 fps on a voltage of around 50,000 and a
small amount of current in the milliamp range."

> >
> > Anyone want to launch something?

Of course if permittivity of space can be changed without using energy,
then this is also an apparent violation of conservation laws as well-- a
violation which can be accommodated if time is made a dependent variable.

Regards,
Fred


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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>
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Hi Mitchell,
>
> >Image too big
>
> ***{A good diagram may be found at
> http://www.aip.org/physnews/preview/1997/dpp97/penning.htm. --MJ}***
>
Thanks for the diagram, Mitchell.
>
> ***{If a relatively benign looking device such as the Penning
> Trap produces
> anomalous behavior, the Gravity-warp Capacitor would seem to merit
> examination. The last I heard, Bill Beaty was trying to
> repossess some tin
> foil he had loaned out, so he could attempt a replication. How about it,
> Bill. Any progress? --MJ}***
>

As I've said in my other post, the gravity capacitor is something of a red
herring here, since the Biefeld-Brown effect (thrust from a capacitor) is
well-established, and must work on similar principles.

Regards,
Fred


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 10 19:58:22 2000
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:56:46 +1000
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On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:13:01 -0700, Walter J. Kovacs wrote:

>Mr. Stirniman:
>Where might one find these "recent reports"?  This is of specific interest to me.  Thank you. 
[snip]
I think Robert was referring to the work of David Smith and Sheldon Schultz
at UCSD.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
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Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au> wrote:
[snip]
> >***{A good diagram may be found at
> >http://www.aip.org/physnews/preview/1997/dpp97/penning.htm. --MJ}***
[snip]
>Has this concept been tried as a hot fusion device? (electrons would tend to
>leak out the ends, leaving only positively charged nuclei in the trap).

It doesn't work in the straightforward way for hot fusion, because, as you
point out, one can only contain charges of one sign. The electric field from
the trapped ion charge grows as one increases the ion density, because there
is no neutralizing negative charge. It turns out that electric field gets
outlandishly large before the ion density gets large enough to be interesting
(if you will, a manifestation of the large ion Coulomb cross section
(barrier) relative to the small nuclear size. However, modifications to the
basic Penning trap improve performance. There is a small program going on at
Los Alamos Nat. Lab to try to see if there is a clever way to get around this
huge problem and maybe find another path to fusion energy.

=====
Michael J. Schaffer



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: gravity-warp capacitor 
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 14:45:15 +1000
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On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 14:19:25 -0700 (PDT), William Beaty wrote:
[snip]
>> ratio (angular momentum to magnetic moment). Dehmelt measured
>> this "constant" to an accuracy of 12 decimal places. His finding
>> did not coincide with quantum theory -- which predicts a value
>> of exactly 2. Instead, Dehmelt measured: g/2 = 1.01159652188(4).
[snip]
Mill's has a calculation of 1 + alpha/2PI = 1.00116... though I'm not sure
it's the same thing he's calculating. (Did you drop a zero)?

(See Electron g Factor in his book).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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Hi All,

Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to what this patent is about.
Here's the summary from the patent:

"A method to transmit and receive electromagnetic waves which
comprises generating opposing magnetic fields having a plane of
maximum force running perpendicular to a longitudinal axis of the
magnetic field; generating a heat source along an axis parallel to the
longitudinal axis of the magnetic field; generating an accelerator
parallel to and in close proximity to the heat source, thereby
creating an input and output port; and generating a communications
signal into the input and output port, thereby sending the signal at a
speed faster than light. "

And here's the reference:
http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=6025810

-- Dean -- from (almost) Duh Moines  (CDP, KB0ZDF)

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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Negative Permittivity & Chiral Geometries
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At 11:13 AM 4/10/0, Walter J. Kovacs wrote:
>Mr. Stirniman:
>Where might one find these "recent reports"?  This is of specific interest
>to me.  Thank you.
>
>---
>Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
>
>
>
>On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:13:18   Robert Stirniman wrote:
>
>>Recent reports of development of negative permittivity, in spaces
>>which are connected with chiral geometries of conductors and
>>dielectrics may be related to the same principal.

Below are some references that may help.

Posted by R. Wormus on vortex:

Left-Handed' Material Said to Reverse Energy:

<http://washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/2000-03/22/127l-032200-idx.html>

Posted by Bill Beaty:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:56:40 -0600
From: "Jerry W. Decker" <jdecker keelynet.com>
To: "Alexander V. Frolov" <frolov mail.admiral.ru>
Subject: more on the lefthand, neg resistance material

Hi Folks!

Here is another take on the left hand, negative resistance
discovery, courtesy of Bert Pool;

http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/m8218.html

the first post;

http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/m8189.html

--
            KeelyNet - From an Art to a Science
        Jerry W. Decker - http://www.keelynet.com/
discussion archives http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/
KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, TX 75187 - 214.324.8741

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 05:05:10 2000
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From: "Dishy-Peiris, Elise" <elise.dishy-peiris itu.int>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: evidence of giant whirlpools
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I found this in GENERAL CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS Š1994/1995 Leading Edge
Research Group http://www.trufax.org/chrono/crj.html

1986 Chicago Tribune (12/11/86) reports that giant whirlpools, some nearly
60 miles wide, were detected moving along the Norway coast. The mammoth
whirlpools were unknown prior to 1980, and reportedly seen by orbiting
astronauts (Aviation Week, 3/16/87). 


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 05:41:22 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 07:36:20 -0500
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: RE: Fw: To Greg Watson
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>Boy Mitch, you have a short memory...

***{Not at all. The first time I heard of Greg Watson was when Bill Beaty
posted the message about him, a couple of weeks ago. --MJ}***

>
>Greg has been promising people a return of their
>money for a long time now. In fact a german who I
>don't see much on the list now, Stephan Hartmann,
>conducted a protracted email and phone campaign
>to get his money back. Plenty of promises like the
>one above, no results. This is all documented in
>the vort and freenrg archives, so please look there before
>you begin your usual barrage of argumentative
>emails.

***{Too late! :-)

Anyway, if you think I'm trying to state a judgment about Greg Watson one
way or the other, you are missing my point. What I am saying is that, from
the perspective of an outsider, it is virtually impossible to rationally
assess these kinds of disputes. What we know is that charges are being
hurled and denied; what we lack are the crucial details upon which a
judgment of criminal culpability must be based. Thus we cannot know whether
we are dealing with failure to perform, which is a civil wrong, or with
fraud, which is criminal. Why can't we know? Because we are not in the
position of a judge. We have no criminal sanctions to hold over the heads
of the various parties to this dispute, by means of which we might induce
them to hand over bank records, etc. Without that kind of information, we
are limited to guessing.

If you reply that Greg Watson's story has changed over the years, for
example (I'm not saying it did, mind you), and claim that proves fraudulent
intent, I would respond by suggesting that he may simply not have the money
to repay what he owes, but may be too embarrassed to admit it. I noticed,
in an earlier post, suggestions that in his youth Greg Watson was doing
well financially--that he was involved with cutting edge computer
technology, or some such, that he founded a business, etc. Well, maybe it
didn't work out for him. On his website, he is listed as a "semi-retired
computer consultant" while his wife is working in a bank. If "semi-retired"
meant "comfortably well off," why is his wife working? Granted, she may
like her job. Granted, he may still have substantial income from
consulting. On the other hand, this is not necessarily the case. In other
words, the truth may be different from what he is saying, but it may not
reflect criminality.

Again, please recognize that I am not talking about Greg Watson, per se. My
point is about an underlying principle--to wit: that we, as outsiders, are
in an exceedingly poor position to judge disputes between other people. We
should recognize the inherent limitations of our positions, and decline to
hurl charges of criminality in public forums. These are matters for courts
to decide, and those court proceedings, properly, should be initiated by
the parties involved, not by outsiders. If you want to warn others to not
send money to someone, you should speak in carefully measured tones. Say
something such as "I have been told by several people that so-and-so has
accepted payment for device X and has failed to deliver, so be forewarned."
If you want to go further, and put forth the opinion that the behavior is
criminal, the preferred venue is private discussions.

Why do I say this, given that it is possible to engage in slanderous public
speculations while hiding behind court approved weasel words? Simple: that
type of muck-raking has the potential to attract the attention of an
unscrupulous prosecutor who, eager to appear to "protect the public"--i.e.,
to gain votes in the next election--will file charges and, quite possibly,
wreck an innocent person's life. Remember: defending yourself against
prosecution, even if you are innocent, can cost tens or hundreds of
thousands of dollars. You don't get that money back if you are found "not
guilty," and if you don't have the money for an adequate defense, you may
go to jail even if you are innocent.

Bottom line: muck-raking, yellow-dog journalism has a long and sordid
history of wrecking innocent lives, and, as ethical human beings, we should
not engage in it. It is as simple as that.

--Mitchell Jones}***

>
>I for one don't dislike the man, nor do I much
>like him. I posted this on freenrg and I
>should do the same here, it's an archive of
>the greg watson saga...
>
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/7389/
>
>I don't know anything about the author or why it
>was made, but its a great history of the events
>surrounding gregs little business venture.
>As the site points out, the best way to understand
>this is to read it "in his own words..."
>
>K.

***{I roamed around in the site for awhile, but did not succeed in finding
anything that was particularly damning. In any case, quoting the man is one
thing; suggesting that he is a crook (or insane, or incompetent) is
something else again. --MJ}***

>
>PS: Greg owes me no money. If he did, I'd likely move
>from neutral to dislike. But it takes two to dance you know.

[snip]

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 05:53:25 2000
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Antigravity with Superluminal Field Rotation ?
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Colin Quinney gives reference to a US patent, US5844345, filed on Sept. 15,
1997.  My take on this is the patent might be invalid since I posted the
idea plus embellishments into the public domain on Dec. 3, 1995 and May 4,
1997, right here on vortex.  I have apppended a copy of my 5/4/97 post at
the bottom of this post.  A design which includes the principles of
US5844345, but even more generalized, was posted by me on 2:10 PM 12/3/95,
well over a year prior to the filing of US5844345.  That post is appended
here also.


At 10:58 AM 4/5/0, Colin Quinney wrote:
>Hi Fred and all,
>
>..I notice that a novel Homopolar patent is now giving a reference to
>Hooper's US03656013.
>
>At 12:05 PM 04/05/00 -0700, Fred wrote:
>>http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US03656013__
>>US3656013: APPARATUS FOR GENERATING MOTIONAL ELECTRIC FIELD
>>
>>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>US5844345: Homopolar motor with dual rotors
>Hsu; John S. , Oak Ridge, TN
>
>       Issued/Filed Dates:  Dec. 1, 1998 / Sept. 15, 1997
>STATEMENT REGARDING FEDERALLY SPONSORED RESEARCH
>This invention was made with Government support under Contract No.
>DE-AC05-840R21400 awarded by the U.S. Dept. of Energy. TheGovernment has
>certain rights in the invention.
>
>Abstract:
>A homopolar motor (10) has a field rotor (15) mounted on a frame (11) for
>rotation in a first rotational direction and for producing an
>electromagnetic field, and an armature rotor(17) mounted for rotation on
>said frame (11) within said electromagnetic field and in a second
>rotational direction counter to said first rotational direction of said
>field rotor (15). The two rotors (15, 17) are coupled through a 1:1 gearing
>mechanism (19), so as to travel at the same speed but in opposite
>directions. This doubles the output voltage and output power, as compared
>to a motor in which only the armature is rotated. Several embodiments are
>disclosed.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>..No claim here for OU of course, but it does claim double output power for
>the same size/weight of standard HP motors/generators. The applicant was
>Lockheed Martin Energy Research Corporation, Oak Ridge, TN. With higher
>operating voltages, they suggest this HPM can be used as a prime mover for
>automobiles, etc.
>
>Unfortunately, the US03656013 Hooper patent at IBM still does not have the
>images, so it is difficult to compare the two types of rotating fields, but
>for those who do have the Hooper patent, the comparisons might be of
>interest.
>
>Best,
>Colin Quinney
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
At 2:10 PM 12/3/95, Horace Heffner wrote:
>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>Like Chris Tinsley, I have seen a number of ideas for increasing the EMF
>>>>of a Faraday disk by various means. (I've thought of a few myself).  They
>>>>are doomed to failure because whatever is gained in the disk, is immeadiatly
>>>>lost as a counter-EMF in the connecting wires.
>>>>--
>>>>Chris Morriss
>>>
>
>
>Here's an idea:
>
>(1) Obtain Neodymium ring magnets. One possibility for that is Master
>Magnetics, PO Box 279, Castle Rock, Colorado 80104, 1-800-525-3536.  They
>offer various sizes at 27MGO.  Two examples of possible interest: 1.25" OD,
>.75" ID, .1" thick, for $8.00 (4.20 qty 100), 2" OD, 1.75" ID, .375"thick,
>for $70 ($61 qty 100).
>
>(2) Build a bearing assembley that fits into the ring center, and mount the
>magnets on a shaft. The magnets should be insulated from the shaft. Provide
>electrical contact between alternate magnet centers.
>
>(3) Provide electrical contact between alternate outsides.
>
>(4) Complete the rest of the magnetic circuit with iron or combination iron
>and magnets.
>
>(5) Provide rotating contact to alernate magnets, via rubber wheels
>attached to rotating shaft running parallel to magnets on outside.  Do the
>same with remaining magnets with another shaft rotating in opposite
>direction.  Now the current flow should look like:
>
>--> <-- <________ Current Input
>   V
><-- -->
>      V
>--> <--
>   V
><-- -->          Flux vertical, alternate disks rotate
>      V          in opposite directions
>--> <--
>   V
><-- -->         Note: V denotes electrical contact
>      V
>--> <--
>   V
><-- --> _________> Current Output
>
>
>What do you think?
>
>
>
>
>Regards,                          <hheffner matsu.ak.net>
>                                  PO Box 325 Palmer, AK 99645
>Horace Heffner                    907-746-0820
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

At 9:18 AM 5/4/97, Horace Heffner wrote:
[snip]
>
>It is not possible to understand or account for the operation of a
>homopolar without taking into consideration the action of the magnetic
>field on both parts of the circuit.  The reference frame of the magnet is
>unimportant.  There can even be multiple magnets in multiple reference
>frames and their effects will still add.  It is even possible to adjust the
>geometry of stator and aramture so that there is no magnet at all, the only
>fields being from the stator and armature currents. You can also create
>hybrid designs with mutliple mutually interacting elements, where one
>armature is both the stator and magnet for the next armature, for example.
>In fact, I posted such a hybrid design here some time ago.
>
>Magnetic isolation seems to me to be a completely unfruitful concept in
>designing homopolars. The homopolar works by interlocking flux loops with
>the circuit loop and then breaking that interlock without a cut, or vice
>versa.  It is largely a topological phnomenon.  All sheilding will do is
>move the cut points, and make the homopolar larger than it needs to be.  On
>the other hand, use of ferrous material to close the magnetic loop and to
>increase flux densities, however, provides much advantage in many homopolar
>designs.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

At 10:34 AM 5/4/97, Horace Heffner wrote:
>Here is a cross section of a design for a hybrid homopolar as referred to
>in an earlier post:
>
>
>
>      ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----       -----
>      |   {o)   | |   (o)   | |   {o)   |      o)   |
>      |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |       |   |
>      |N S| |N S| |N S| |N S| |N S| |N S|       |N S|
> (+)  |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | ...   |   |  (-)
>  |   |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |       |   |   |
>  --- |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |       |   | ---
>  | (o)   | |   (o)   | |   (o)   | |   (o)     |   (o) |
>  --- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----       -----
>
>
>  --- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----       ----- ---
>  | (o)   | |   (o)   | |   (o)   | |   (o)     |   (o) |
>  --- |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |       |   | ---
>      |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |       |   |
>      |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | ...   |   |
>      |N S| |N S| |N S| |N S| |N S| |N S|       |N S|
>      |   | |   | |   | |   | |   | |   |       |   |
>      |   {o)   | |   (o)   | |   (o)   |      o)   |
>      ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----       -----
>
>The central shaft and bearings, which are electrically insulated from the
>above, and may even not be conductive, are not shown.  The configuration
>(o) represents a ball bearing raceway. The ball bearings in the raceway
>have the dual function of acting as brushes.  Any conducitve brush/bearing
>combination can be substituted. The rotating circular magnets with circular
>central holes are neodymium or other conductive material, or might be
>plated or metallic disk clad ceramic magnets.  The important thing to the
>design is that adjacent segments rotate relative to each other, which can
>be achieved by having the central shaft attached to alternate segments and
>having the others held steady in mounts, or by driving adajacent pairs in
>opposite directions via friction wheel, belt, gear, or other mechanical
>means, or any combination of means.  It is also possible to move the inner
>set of bearings to interface with the shaft, and to make the shaft
>conductive in segments.  There are many variations.  The important thing to
>note is that adjacent segments rotate relative to each other.
>
>To get the greatest amount of mutual rotation for the least amount of g
>forces and bearing friction, the wheels should rotate in opposite
>directions to each other.  So, it becomes unclear as to which is the stator
>and which the armature, and in fact the role can be reversed by changing
>which rotate at what rate and at what direction. It is even possible, by
>eliminating one rotating element, to have an odd number of stators, and
>even number of armatures, or vice versa.
>
>The power takeoff for the unit above is at the final bearings/brushes.  If
>====== represents the above segments as a unit, and II represents a
>magnetic flux conduit, then it is possible to place these units in series
>to achieve any kind of generator dimensions, and to preserve or close the
>magnetic circuit, for example:
>
>
>
>   (+)    --------
>    |     | -    | series
>  II=======II    | electrical
>  II       II    | connection
>  II=======II    | between
>    |     | +    | units
>   (-)    --------
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 07:26:26 2000
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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Squelching the Competition
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Check out
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/technology/archive/1999/05/17/coldf
usion2.dtl&type=printable . This is a fascinating article about the
obstacles that have been placed in the path of "cold fusion." --MJ

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 09:50:16 2000
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Fred Epps wrote:
>>  The correct ratio is 2. > And is there some experimental arrangement that shows this? 

No. Prior to Dehmelt's experiment, the Copenhagen sect of Bohr, 
Pauli, and other disciples had proved conclusively that it is 
in principal impossible to measure the electron's gyrotropic ratio. 

Fred. Sometimes it seems you interpret me too literally.

> As far as I can see, if these things are not constant then the time rate is
> not constant as well, since time in any particular system is only known by
> space and mass relationships within it.

Indeed. 

> This would explain the findings of Reich who discovered electroscope
> anomalies around orgone accumulators (capacitor like structures) and
> alterations in the ionization potential of gasses in sealed tubes placed in
> an orac.

Curious thing about Reich. If his writings were complete nonsense, 
why was it deemed necessary to literally burn his books. 

> Discussion of pyramids is justified since we are talking about 
> engineering of space with geometry. The occult world has known this 
> for millennia. You asked for it :-)

Never asked for it, and don't particularly care for it. You know
there is something to it. Too bad it has been labelled "occult". 
Might just as well suggest that there is poltergeists involved. 
I don't do pyramids. Sharp points make them uneasy. 

Regards,
Robert

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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> Mill's has a calculation of 1 + alpha/2PI = 1.00116... though I'm not sure
> it's the same thing he's calculating. (Did you drop a zero)?

Yes. I dropped the ball here. Two zeros after decimal.

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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>
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Hi Robert,

> >>  The correct ratio is 2. > And is there some experimental
> arrangement that shows this?
>
> No. Prior to Dehmelt's experiment, the Copenhagen sect of Bohr,
> Pauli, and other disciples had proved conclusively that it is
> in principal impossible to measure the electron's gyrotropic ratio.
>
> Fred. Sometimes it seems you interpret me too literally.

If I do, then it must be a common problem--
your sarcasm doesn't always carry over in print. The word "correct" should
have cued me in though :-)
>
> > As far as I can see, if these things are not constant then the
> time rate is
> > not constant as well, since time in any particular system is
> only known by
> > space and mass relationships within it.
>
> Indeed.
>
> > This would explain the findings of Reich who discovered electroscope
> > anomalies around orgone accumulators (capacitor like structures) and
> > alterations in the ionization potential of gasses in sealed
> tubes placed in
> > an orac.
>
> Curious thing about Reich. If his writings were complete nonsense,
> why was it deemed necessary to literally burn his books.

Almost everything he said has been replicated. The ionization tests only
recently.
Most of Reich's problems were due to his pugnacious attitude. He insisted
on being taken seriously by scientists :-)
>
> > Discussion of pyramids is justified since we are talking about
> > engineering of space with geometry. The occult world has known this
> > for millennia. You asked for it :-)
>
> Never asked for it, and don't particularly care for it. You know
> there is something to it. Too bad it has been labelled "occult".

Only common parlance, not my term.

> Might just as well suggest that there is poltergeists involved.
> I don't do pyramids.

Even if you don't talk about it, you should still "do" them.

Sharp points make them uneasy.

I always try to do that :-)
I am in the enviable postion of having  not much to lose :-)

Regards,
Fred


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 10:53:52 2000
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Hi.

Robert S. wrote...
> For a time, it was thought that Dehmelt's measurement was an
> accurate representation of the electron's gyrotropic ratio.
> But, now we believe again that theory is right. The correct
> ratio is 2. Also we have found that the measurement of the electron's
> gyrotropic ratio in this type of device varies to some extent with
> the geometry of the device. Physicists have developed wonderful
> explanations for this: anomalous cyclotron frequency, anomalous
> magnetic moment, cylindrical vacuum modes, etc.

This is exciting news. I know Fred asked this already, but
please provide us some references. 

On the subject of changes in the vacuum permittivity. What would
you make of the following scenario? I make a ring laser gyroscope,
and rotate it at some high angular velocity. Now it is well known
that the speed of light will vary depending on the direction of
travel around the ring, would you consider this to be a change
in permittivity? permeability? Or perhaps a change in both, such
that the velocity changes but the impedence remain constant?
How would you go about proving any of these case... 

K.

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Subject: OFF TOPIC: Apex Hotel in the Hot Seat
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The ICCF-6 conference in Hokkaido was held at the Apex Resort Hotel, which
was smack dab in the middle of nowhere. It is in a spectacular location on
top of a mountain. The building was constructed at the height of the
"bubble" economy. It looks like a Hollywood sound stage, reeking of money.
The hotel was a typical garish 1980s white elephant. Since it was
inaccessible and overpriced, it lost money from the start, and the deed to
the property bounced around from desperate real estate developers with
alleged mob connections to some kind of quasi- public prefectural
corporation, I think it was. The hotel was already bankrupt during ICCF 6,
and I heard the conference organizers squeezed the management to get a good
deal on the rooms. Soon after that the place was shut down for good, and
the building abandoned.

The hotel is in the news this week, in the Yomiuri newspaper, April 9 ed.
Early this month a volcano three kilometers away from the hotel began
erupting. The building has huge glass picture windows facing the volcano,
and the location is about the crater (or whatever they call it), looking
down. It is an ideal place to observe the eruption if you don't mind being
asphyxiated or crushed by falling rocks. The reporter expressed "some
anxiety" about that. A photograph shows several reporters are ensconced in
the gigantic lobby, up all hours of the day and night looking out the
window. It reads like the diary of the reporter, describing the
surrealistic living conditions in this former luxury hotel, which now has
no electricity or heat and only one working toilet. A camping trip inside a
luxury hotel. The reporters are "too exhausted to talk" and they eat mostly
chocolate emergency rations.  Old dirty wine glasses and silverware were
left around on the tables when the building was abandoned. Oddly enough, it
does not mention whether are any volcanologists are there with the
reporters. Maybe they do not feel comfortable so close to the eruption? It
sounds a little being marooned in a luxury villa in Pompeii in A.D. 79.
Still, if I had an opportunity to go there today, I'd do it. It sounds
sorta fun!

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 11:20:13 2000
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: You ought to READ the papers. , Gravity Drive Need Not Violate First , Law
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At 5:53 PM 4/10/0, John Schnurer wrote:

>        If you move into the area of lessened gravity from thrside, you
>have to exert fource until you get to the lessened part... and it is a
>break even of the two... no loss, no gain.
>
>                                J


I have read the articles.  This cannot be true that energy is conserved and
also the orginal observation that smoke rises over the device also be true.
The smoke laden air had to displace both into the coulmn and out of it. A
lateral force for a short fixed distance can not make up for lack of force
for a non-fixed (arbitrary) vertical rise.  Energy can not be conserved if
the device works as documented.

Of course I should be on record as not being of the cult that believes in
the universal intractability of thermodynamics.  I do not see violation of
COE as denial that the device works as documented (though lack of
successful replication may be a strong negative indicator.) The logic of
thermodynamics is acceptable but the premises are not in the sense that
they can rule supreme over experiment.  IMHO, theory always bows to
experiment - except in religion and law.

Since Park is operating purely in the world of faith, not science, his
evangelical position is understandable.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 12:45:23 2000
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: You ought to READ the papers. , Gravity Drive Need Not
  Violate First , Law
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Horace Heffner wrote:

>Since Park is operating purely in the world of faith, not science, his
>evangelical position is understandable.

Faith, hope and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
That is: OUR money going to HIS list of big science projects! Not much
charity wasted on new ideas.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 13:22:14 2000
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 12:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: evidence of giant whirlpools
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The famous whirlpool, the Maelstrom is well known off the Norway coast.
See the ending of 20000 Leagues under the sea.

Hank

On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Dishy-Peiris, Elise wrote:

> I found this in GENERAL CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS Š1994/1995 Leading Edge
> Research Group http://www.trufax.org/chrono/crj.html
> 
> 1986 Chicago Tribune (12/11/86) reports that giant whirlpools, some nearly
> 60 miles wide, were detected moving along the Norway coast. The mammoth
> whirlpools were unknown prior to 1980, and reportedly seen by orbiting
> astronauts (Aviation Week, 3/16/87). 
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 13:34:39 2000
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Jed
	My grandfather was killed in an eruption in Japan in about 1910.
He was climbing the volcano for fun, when it erupted, and was hit in the
head by a house sized boulder. My mother had a newspaper clipping about
the event. Somewhere in southern Japan, near Osaka, I believe. My mother
and her sisters were raised by their grandparents.

Hank 

On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> The ICCF-6 conference in Hokkaido was held at the Apex Resort Hotel> was
smack dab in the middle of nowhere.
<snip>
> "bubble" economy. It looks like a Hollywood sound stage, reeking of money.
> The hotel was a typical garish 1980s white elephant. Since it was
> inaccessible and overpriced, it lost money from the start, and the deed to
> 
> 
> The hotel is in the news this week, in the Yomiuri newspaper, April 9 ed.
> Early this month a volcano three kilometers away from the hotel began
> erupting. The building has huge glass picture windows facing the volcano,
> and the location is about the crater (or whatever they call it), looking
> down. It is an ideal place to observe the eruption if you don't mind being
> asphyxiated or crushed by falling rocks. The reporter expressed "some
> anxiety" about that. A photograph shows several reporters are ensconced in
> the gigantic lobby, up all hours of the day and night looking out the
> window. It reads like the diary of the reporter, describing the
> surrealistic living conditions in this former luxury hotel, which now has
> no electricity or heat and only one working toilet. A camping trip inside a
> luxury hotel. The reporters are "too exhausted to talk" and they eat mostly
> chocolate emergency rations.  Old dirty wine glasses and silverware were
> left around on the tables when the building was abandoned. Oddly enough, it
> does not mention whether are any volcanologists are there with the
> reporters. Maybe they do not feel comfortable so close to the eruption? It
> sounds a little being marooned in a luxury villa in Pompeii in A.D. 79.
> Still, if I had an opportunity to go there today, I'd do it. It sounds
> sorta fun!
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 11 15:15:03 2000
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: You ought to READ the papers. , Gravity Drive Need Not	  Violate First , Law
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At 3:29 PM 4/11/0, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>>Since Park is operating purely in the world of faith, not science, his
>>evangelical position is understandable.
>
>Faith, hope and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
>That is: OUR money going to HIS list of big science projects! Not much
>charity wasted on new ideas.
>
>- Jed


So hope therefore must be the hope he gets away with it! 8^)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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	First party
...
for photons in vacuum is the constraint that defines the pole for "real"
far field radiation photons of transverse polarization. Everything else
is virtual. Common near electric and magnetic classical fields in motors
and electrical circuits are quantum coherent "superfluid" condensed
states of huge numbers of soft virtual photons of longitudinal
polarization in the same field oscillator mode. Gauge invariance,
required for conservation of electric charge, ties scalar polarization
to longitudinal polarization. They are not independent.        


	Second party

This all fits well into the discussion about electrostatic communication.
Longitudinal electrostatic waves are also called scalar or polarizing
waves. And did't Tesla claimed to generate longitudinal waves?
Is there any book or paper (it doesn't necessarily need to be main stream)
where I can read more about longitudinally polarized virtual photons and
their condensation states. What are the known physical effects of
nonlinear longitudinal traveling and standing waves related to virtual
photons? I mean solitons. What happens when I let two or more intersect?
Which are the options of interesection? What happens when they annihilate
or interfere to zero? What happens when they reflect etc.?

------------

	Can anyone make any 'real world"  no-bogus definitions of these
words and terms.... it seems as so much text mixing ... or 
	"Gee, this would be a cool thing, maybe, if it existed."


	Q: "...longitudinally polarized virtual photons and
their condensation states."   ?!?!?!


	Q:  ".....nonlinear longitudinal traveling and standing waves>"
?!?!?

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: De Broglie wave length
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:52:49 +1000
Organization: Improving
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Hi,

When calculating the De Broglie wavelength, should one use relativistic
mass?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:05:45 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: De Broglie wave length
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At 9:52 AM 4/12/0, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>Hi,
>
>When calculating the De Broglie wavelength, should one use relativistic
>mass?
>


The short answer is yes.

The de Broglie wavelength lambda is actually described in terms of *momentum* p:

   lambda = h/p

where p is the relativistic p given by

   p = gamma * m0 * v = (E^2 - E0^2)/c

where E is energy, E0 is rest energy, and gamma is given by:

   gamma = (1 - v^2/c^2)^(-1/2)

Note that as the mass of a particle approaches c its de Broglie wavelength
approaches that of a photon with similar energy, namely:

   p = E/c

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: De Broglie wave length
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At 9:52 AM 4/12/0, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>Hi,
>
>When calculating the De Broglie wavelength, should one use relativistic
>mass?
>


The short answer is yes.

The de Broglie wavelength lambda is actually described in terms of *momentum* p:

   lambda = h/p

where p is the relativistic p given by

   p = gamma * m0 * v = [(E^2 - E0^2)^0.5]/c         [note correction]

where E is energy, E0 is rest energy, and gamma is given by:

   gamma = (1 - v^2/c^2)^(-1/2)

Note that as the mass of a particle approaches c its de Broglie wavelength
approaches that of a photon with similar energy, namely:

   p = E/c

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 12 05:30:26 2000
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hank scudder wrote:

>	My grandfather was killed in an eruption in Japan in about 1910.
>He was climbing the volcano for fun, when it erupted, and was hit in the
>head by a house sized boulder.

That's awful. Volcanos can be scary. The ones in Washington state improve
the soil, but I would prefer not to live near one. One of them popped out
of the ground in Mexico in 1944 I think it was. People who were not living
next to one woke up to find one had moved in and taken over the neighborhood.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 12 06:45:06 2000
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From: "Dishy-Peiris, Elise" <elise.dishy-peiris itu.int>
To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: evidence of giant whirlpools
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:41:22 +0200
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Thanks for the info, Hank.
I found this also -- A Descent Into the Maelström  Edgar Allan Poe, 1841  
Regards
Elise


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	hank scudder [SMTP:hjscudde newton.csun.edu]
> Sent:	Tuesday, April 11, 2000 9:50 PM
> To:	'vortex-l eskimo.com'
> Subject:	Re: evidence of giant whirlpools
> 
> The famous whirlpool, the Maelstrom is well known off the Norway coast.
> See the ending of 20000 Leagues under the sea.
> 
> Hank
> 
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Dishy-Peiris, Elise wrote:
> 
> > I found this in GENERAL CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS Š1994/1995 Leading Edge
> > Research Group http://www.trufax.org/chrono/crj.html
> > 
> > 1986 Chicago Tribune (12/11/86) reports that giant whirlpools, some
> nearly
> > 60 miles wide, were detected moving along the Norway coast. The mammoth
> > whirlpools were unknown prior to 1980, and reportedly seen by orbiting
> > astronauts (Aviation Week, 3/16/87). 
> > 
> > 
> > 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 12 09:48:16 2000
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From: "Adam Cox" <merlyn_x hotmail.com>
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Subject: pyramid coils and warped space
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:44:53 CDT
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synthesizing ideas in the midst of insomnia..

Speaking of a coil of coils, would any of the mathematical geniuses out 
there care to figure the magnetic field for a coil using four smalll coils 
as its winding such that the result is in the shape of a pyramid?? (A cone 
would be similar and simpler, I guess)

I may just be suffering from cranial meltdown but it seems to me that the 
lines of force within the coil would somewhat resemble an inverted vortex


on a similar vein what might the field be if the coil was a sphere??

Adam Cox

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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:15:04 -0700
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Watlow has an improved Website.  Great Reference Info.

 http://www.watlow.com/reference/


Regards,     Frederick

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 12 14:43:40 2000
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From: "David Dennard" <daviddennard hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: evidence of giant whirlpools
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:41:10 PDT
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Hasn't been much done in the area, even since 1980, my research shows, 
across thousands of archived pages, dozens of lists, years of research 
specifically looking for whirlpools; no data, no tests.

Our whirlpools appear to be the first whirlpools ever built by man, and 
tested.  Concurred by many, even top experts.  But my announcements are not 
heard because I am not in any group, or scientific community.  I am just a 
person traveling down the information high way, just like anyone else.  What 
a ride!!

David Dennard
http://www.whirlpower.cc

>From: "Dishy-Peiris, Elise" <elise.dishy-peiris itu.int>
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: "'vortex-l eskimo.com'" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
>Subject: evidence of giant whirlpools
>Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 14:02:59 +0200
>
>I found this in GENERAL CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS Š1994/1995 Leading Edge
>Research Group http://www.trufax.org/chrono/crj.html
>
>1986 Chicago Tribune (12/11/86) reports that giant whirlpools, some nearly
>60 miles wide, were detected moving along the Norway coast. The mammoth
>whirlpools were unknown prior to 1980, and reportedly seen by orbiting
>astronauts (Aviation Week, 3/16/87).
>
>

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: De Broglie wave length
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 07:43:41 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:08:12 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote:
[snip]
>The short answer is yes.
[snip]
Thanks Horace.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

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	What was the short question, please?

On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:08:12 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote:
> [snip]
> >The short answer is yes.
> [snip]
> Thanks Horace.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 13 03:43:19 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 02:56:52 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: What was the Short Question?Re: De Broglie wave length
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At 6:47 PM 4/12/0, John Schnurer wrote:
>        What was the short question, please?
>
>On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:08:12 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote:
>> [snip]
>> >The short answer is yes.
>> [snip]
>> Thanks Horace.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
>>
>>


Below is a recap for you, John.  The question (I think) is relevant to
discussion on the HSG (hydrino) list, and related to a possible shortcoming
in present Mills analysis of the hydrino that Robin is looking at there. -
so may appear out of context to you here.


At 9:52 AM 4/12/0, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>Hi,
>
>When calculating the De Broglie wavelength, should one use relativistic
>mass?
>


The short answer is yes.

The de Broglie wavelength lambda is actually described in terms of *momentum* p:

   lambda = h/p

where p is the relativistic p given by

   p = gamma * m0 * v = [(E^2 - E0^2)^0.5]/c         [note correction]

where E is energy, E0 is rest energy, and gamma is given by:

   gamma = (1 - v^2/c^2)^(-1/2)

Note that as the mass of a particle approaches c its de Broglie wavelength
approaches that of a photon with similar energy, because:

   as E/E0 -> inf,

   p = (E^2 - E0^2)^0.5/c    ->  E/c

which is the momentum of a photon of similar energy E, thus producing a
similar wavelength lambda = h/p.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, John Schnurer wrote:
> 
> 	What was the short question, please?
> 
i> On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:08:12 -0800, Horace Heffner wrote:
> > [snip]
> > >The short answer is yes.
> > [snip]
> > Thanks Horace.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 13 22:31:30 2000
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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:25:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: pyramid coils and warped space
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> Speaking of a coil of coils, would any of the mathematical geniuses out 
> there care to figure the magnetic field for a coil using four smalll coils 
> as its winding such that the result is in the shape of a pyramid?? (A cone 
> would be similar and simpler, I guess)

The answer depends on the directions ofthe currents relative to each other.
One particular case: If each coil has the same number of turns and  carries
the same current, and the the currents all flow in the same sense (either all
clockwise or all counter clockwise, as viewed from outside the pyramid), and
if the conductor diameters are infinitessimally small, so that the currents
from neighboring coils are arbitrarily close to their neighbors, then the
neighboring currents of each leg are equal and opposite and their effect
cancels. Therefore, the magnetic field is zero. (I'm not a mathematical
genius.)

> on a similar vein what might the field be if the coil was a sphere??

First tell me how you make a coil that is a sphere. A sphere looks the same
from every vantage point. It has no favored direction. It is isotropic. A
coil is a path of directed current. It has direction at any given point. It
cannot be isotropic like a sphere.

=====
Michael J. Schaffer



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Hi all (and especially Jim Uban and Dan Quickert),
                                                                        =
I am slightly amazed to report that A$200 were wired into my account =
yesterday from Greg's wife S.Watson.
    I suppose he let us down for reasons which remain unclear but he has =
proved to be a gentleman in the end. My  intuition makes me think that =
Greg went through some personal problems at the time.

    Some have expressed opinions about the wisdom of sending him one's =
bank details - all I sent was the bank sort code, it's address and my =
account number - all this information is available to any one you write =
out a cheque to. As a small precaution, I did not tell him exactly how =
my name appears on the account.

    Ladies and gentlemen, Greg came through with the promised refunds! =
This is rather annoying as it makes the "Greg Watson saga" even more =
uncertain. Who knows, apart from Greg, what the real situation was/is? I =
have found it intensely interesting to have been personally involved =
with a free energy device that never made it (like they all seem to end =
up doing). Greg maintains that the SMOT effect is real but extremely =
difficult to demonstrate reliably in a manufactured device.

Nick Palmer

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all (and especially Jim Uban and Dan =

Quickert),</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;I=20
am slightly amazed to report that A$200 were wired into my account =
yesterday=20
from Greg's wife S.Watson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I suppose he let us =
down for=20
reasons which remain unclear but he has proved to be a gentleman in the =
end.=20
My&nbsp; intuition makes me think that Greg went through some personal =
problems=20
at the time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Some have =
expressed=20
opinions about the wisdom of sending him one's bank details - all I sent =
was the=20
bank sort code, it's address and my account number - all this =
information is=20
available to any one you write out a cheque to. As a small precaution, I =
did not=20
tell him exactly how my name appears on the account.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ladies and =
gentlemen, Greg came=20
through with the promised refunds! This is rather annoying as it makes =
the "Greg=20
Watson saga" even more uncertain. Who knows, apart from Greg, what the =
real=20
situation was/is? I have found it intensely interesting to have been =
personally=20
involved with a free energy device that never made it (like they all =
seem to end=20
up doing). Greg maintains that the SMOT effect is real but extremely =
difficult=20
to demonstrate reliably in a manufactured device.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nick Palmer</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 14 09:25:46 2000
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Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:24:05 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Refund
Cc: "Greg Watson" <gowatson ozemail.com.au>
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Nick Palmer wrote:



>   Hi all (and especially Jim Uban and Dan  Quickert),                     
>                                                   I  am slightly amazed to
>report that A$200 were wired into my account yesterday  from Greg's wife
>S.Watson.

This is welcome news, indeed. I hope Watson refunds all other purchasers.
It would be understandable if he could only afford to pay back 50% to 80%.
He owes us and the Tinsley estate a considerable amount. I do not have the
exact figures.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 14 09:55:31 2000
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From: "Adam Cox" <merlyn_x hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: pyramid coils and warped space
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:50:43 CDT
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Michael wrote:
> > on a similar vein what might the field be if the coil was a sphere??
>
>First tell me how you make a coil that is a sphere. A sphere looks the same
>from every vantage point. It has no favored direction. It is isotropic. A
>coil is a path of directed current. It has direction at any given point. It
>cannot be isotropic like a sphere.
>

sorry, I meant an approximate sphere created by taking a small diameter, 
relatively long coil and coiling it upon itself into something resembling a 
closed basket or spherical shell...
similar method for pyramid coil
like wrapping a spring around a ball

Adam
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 14 12:42:13 2000
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Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:35:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Uban <uban world.std.com>
Message-Id: <200004141935.PAA19680 world.std.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: SMOT Refund
Cc: gowatson ozemail.com.au
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Vorts,

This is good news that Nick has received his
refund from Greg Watson.  I'm communicating
with Greg as well and will report when
he (hopefully) comes through, or if he
does not.

The worst thing about Greg's timing is
that it bolsters Mitchell Jones' arguments!   ;-)

	Jim

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 14 13:56:09 2000
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From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20000414122405.007ad770 pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Refund
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:25:57 +0100
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Jed Rothwell wrote:
<<It would be understandable if he could only afford to pay back 50% to
80%>>

Hi Jed,
          50-80%? Greg refunded me A$200 - I only ordered one SMOT kit for
A$150. Greg said he would send the extra for inconvenience and lost
interest; however the Brit pound has strengthened a lot since June 1997 and
the sterling equivalent of A$150 then is now worth about A$200. I'm not
complaining though!

Nick Palmer

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 14 14:12:20 2000
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Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:10:02 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Refund
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Nick Palmer wrote:

><<It would be understandable if he could only afford to pay back 50% to
>80%>>
>
>Hi Jed,
>          50-80%? Greg refunded me A$200 - I only ordered one SMOT kit for
>A$150. Greg said he would send the extra for inconvenience and lost
>interest . . .

I wouldn't mind if he paid it all, plus interest!

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 14 14:46:20 2000
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Apr 14, 2000
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 17:29:54 -0400 (EDT)

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 14 Apr
00   Washington, DC

1. FLASH!!  DUMA RATIFIES START II BY 288 TO
131.  A vastly more
serious threat to the U.S. than an attack
from a rogue state is
still an accidental or unauthorized launch
from Russia.  That
danger was cut in half this morning when the
Duma, after stalling
for six years, followed the urging of
President-elect Vladimir
Putin and ratified START II.  The cost of
maintaining Russia's
aging nuclear arsenal may have been a major
factor (WN 20 Nov
98).  It is, nevertheless, a major victory
for the new Russian
leader, demonstrating that he is firmly in
charge just two days
before his debut trip to the West.  This
opens the way for a
discussion of Start III, and U.S. plans for a
missile defense
system that would undermine the 1972 Missile
Defense Treaty.

2. MISSILE DEFENSE: COUNTERMEASURES REPORT
CALLS FOR DELAY.  A
panel of senior scientists convened by the
Union of Concerned
Scientists has concluded that the National
Missile Defense system
currently being tested is ineffective, and
called for deferring a
decision on deployment.  A government
intelligence report issued
last September acknowledged that emerging
missile states are
capable of using decoys.  Alas, the NMD
system, has so far not
proven to be effective even against targets
without real
countermeasures (WN 24 Mar 00).  The Pentagon
plans just one more
attempt at a clean hit before the President's
scheduled October
decision on deployment.  The system has no
prospect of defending
against missiles delivering chemical or
biological weapons, which
would likely be divided into hundreds of
small warheads for
better distribution (though why a rogue
nation would bother with
missiles for delivery of such weapons remains
unclear).  If there
is an explicit and credible missile threat
from a rogue state,
the panel noted, its missiles could be
destroyed before they are
launched, in accordance with the right of
self-defense.  The only
real defense against missile attacks is still
deterrence.  The
report and an animation are available at
www.ucsua.org/arms/.
                                                       
3. CREATIONISM: OKLAHOMA HOUSE CASTS A VOTE
FOR MONOTHEISM.  You
will recall that last fall the Oklahoma state
textbook committee
voted to affix a statement to any biology
text warning unwary
students that "evolution is a controversial
theory" (WN 12 Nov
99).  The Oklahoma Attorney General, however,
ruled that the
committee lacked the authority to require
such a statement.  This
week, the Oklahoma House of Representatives
voted unanimously for
a bill that gives the committee authority to
insert "a summary,
opinion, or disclaimer" into any textbook
they please.  What's
more, the textbook committee was directed to
"ensure that the
textbooks include acknowledgment that human
life was created by
one God of the universe."  The
Representatives showed admirable
restraint in not specifying which God they
had in mind.  They
then voted narrowly to send the bill back to
a House-Senate
committee, whose chair vows she will not
allow it to resurface.  

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions
are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS,
but they should be.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 16 23:35:00 2000
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From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: pyramid coils and warped space
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Adam Cox <merlyn_x hotmail.com> wrote:

> sorry, I meant an approximate sphere created by taking a small diameter, 
> relatively long coil and coiling it upon itself into something resembling a
> 
> closed basket or spherical shell...
> similar method for pyramid coil
> like wrapping a spring around a ball

If you mark two poles on the surface of the sphere, and if you wind a
conventional wire starting from one pole, spiraling out and covering the
sphere and spiraling in to end at the opposite pole, you will get an
approximately uniform magnetic in the interior and approximately a dipole
field outside the sphere. If you carefully distribute the winding to be
proportional to the sine of the latitude, you will get exactly a uniform
field inside and a dipole outside.

If you take a very long, small diameter winding, such as one consisting of a
fine wire wound over a long plastic wire former, which might be what you had
in mine, then the magnetic field will stay almost entirely within the plastic
former, with very little leaking out. Therefore, no matter how you wind and
weave the long, small diameter coil over the surface of the sphere, the field
both inside and outside will be almost zero, differing only by the
imperfections of the long winding and a little flux entering end leaving its
ends.


=====
Michael J. Schaffer



__________________________________________________
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Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 17 06:01:21 2000
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    -----Original Message-----
    From: Nick Palmer <nick7 itl.net>
    To: vortex-l eskimo.com <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
    Cc: Greg Watson <gowatson ozemail.com.au>
    Date: 14 April 2000 09:43
    Subject: Refund
   =20
   =20
    Hi all (and especially Jim Uban and Dan Quickert),
                                                                         =
   I am slightly amazed to report that A$200 were wired into my account =
yesterday from Greg's wife S.Watson.
        I suppose he let us down for reasons which remain unclear but he =
has proved to be a gentleman in the end. My  intuition makes me think =
that Greg went through some personal problems at the time.
    =20
        Some have expressed opinions about the wisdom of sending him =
one's bank details - all I sent was the bank sort code, it's address and =
my account number - all this information is available to any one you =
write out a cheque to. As a small precaution, I did not tell him exactly =
how my name appears on the account.
    =20
        Ladies and gentlemen, Greg came through with the promised =
refunds! This is rather annoying as it makes the "Greg Watson saga" even =
more uncertain. Who knows, apart from Greg, what the real situation =
was/is? I have found it intensely interesting to have been personally =
involved with a free energy device that never made it (like they all =
seem to end up doing). Greg maintains that the SMOT effect is real but =
extremely difficult to demonstrate reliably in a manufactured device.
   =20
    Nick Palmer
    Hi Nick- Saw yr details re refunds from Inventor and am wondering if =
anyone in Vortex has heard from or knows what happened to "John Bedenni" =
who claimed t have invented an Overunity device several  years ago??? In =
fact Tom Bearden wrote an "Support Introduction" in Bedenni,s literature =
but I could not get the thing to work.
    I Even travelled from Ireland to The west coast US to meet Bedinni =
and he never turned up- Is it all smoke like SMOLT???

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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Nick Palmer &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:nick7 itl.net">nick7@itl.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: </B><A =

    href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com">vortex-l@eskimo.com</A> &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:vortex-l eskimo.com">vortex-l@eskimo.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Cc:=
=20
    </B>Greg Watson &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:gowatson ozemail.com.au">gowatson@ozemail.com.au</A>&gt;<B=
R><B>Date:=20
    </B>14 April 2000 09:43<BR><B>Subject: =
</B>Refund<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all (and especially Jim Uban and =
Dan=20
    Quickert),</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;I=20
    am slightly amazed to report that A$200 were wired into my account =
yesterday=20
    from Greg's wife S.Watson.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I suppose he let =
us down for=20
    reasons which remain unclear but he has proved to be a gentleman in =
the end.=20
    My&nbsp; intuition makes me think that Greg went through some =
personal=20
    problems at the time.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Some have =
expressed=20
    opinions about the wisdom of sending him one's bank details - all I =
sent was=20
    the bank sort code, it's address and my account number - all this=20
    information is available to any one you write out a cheque to. As a =
small=20
    precaution, I did not tell him exactly how my name appears on the=20
    account.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ladies and =
gentlemen, Greg=20
    came through with the promised refunds! This is rather annoying as =
it makes=20
    the &quot;Greg Watson saga&quot; even more uncertain. Who knows, =
apart from=20
    Greg, what the real situation was/is? I have found it intensely =
interesting=20
    to have been personally involved with a free energy device that =
never made=20
    it (like they all seem to end up doing). Greg maintains that the =
SMOT effect=20
    is real but extremely difficult to demonstrate reliably in a =
manufactured=20
    device.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nick Palmer</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Nick- Saw yr details re refunds =
from=20
    Inventor and am wondering if anyone in Vortex has heard from or =
knows what=20
    happened to &quot;John Bedenni&quot; who claimed t have invented an=20
    Overunity device several&nbsp; years ago??? In fact Tom Bearden =
wrote an=20
    &quot;Support Introduction&quot; in Bedenni,s literature but I could =
not get=20
    the thing to work.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I Even travelled from Ireland to =
The west coast=20
    US to meet Bedinni and he never turned up- Is it all smoke like=20
    SMOLT???</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 17 06:51:23 2000
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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:54:44 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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Noel Whitney asked:

"Saw yr details re refunds from Inventor and am wondering if
anyone in Vortex has heard from or knows what happened to "John
Bedenni" who claimed t have invented an Overunity device several 
years ago???"

The Bendini Battery has allegedly been placed in the public
domain.  See:

http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/bedini.htm

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 17 07:59:40 2000
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From: ICCF8 ENEA <iccf8 frascati.enea.it>
Subject: 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion

ICCF8
Lerici, Villa Marigola, May 21-26, 2000
PLAN OF THE CONFERENCE

21, Sunday

16:00  Start of registration
18:00  Opening of the Conference: official talks
19:00  Get-together party

22, Monday

Morning: oral presentations:

09:00 - 09:35	M. Fleischmann
09:35 - 10:10	A. De Ninno
10:10 - 10:45	P. Hagelstein
10:45 - 11:15	Coffee Break
11:15 - 11:50	F. Celani
11:50 - 12:25	Y. Iwamura
12:25 - 12:45 J.J. Dufour
12:45 - 13:05	J. Warner

Afternoon: posters

16:00 - 17:00	Poster presentations (3 min/poster)
17:00 - 19:00	Poster session, including Coffee Break


23, Tuesday

Morning: oral presentations:

09:00 - 09:35	 M. McKubre
09:35 - 10:10	 J. Kasagi
10:10 - 10:45	 E. Storms
10:45 - 11:15	Coffee Break
11:15 - 11:50	 X.Z. Li
11:50 - 12:25	 G.G. Miley
12:25 - 12:45  U. Mastromatteo
12:45 - 13:05	 D. Garbelli

Afternoon: posters

16:00 - 17:00	Poster presentations (3 min/poster)
17:00 - 19:00	Poster session, including Coffee Break


24, Wednesday

Morning: oral presentations:

09:00 - 09:35	 Y. Arata
09:35 - 10:10	 M.H. Miles
10:10 - 10:45	 Y.E. Kim 
10:45 - 11:15	Coffee Break
11:15 - 11:50	V. Violante
11:50 - 12:25	T. Mizuno
12:25 - 12:45 M. Swartz
12:45 - 13:05	A. Roussetskii

Afternoon:

14:00 - 18:00	Free afternoon
20:00 -		Social Dinner


25, Thursday

Morning: oral presentations:

09:00 - 09:35	 E. Del Giudice
09:35 - 10:10	 Y. Isobe
10:10 - 10:45	 G. Mengoli
10:45 - 11:15	Coffee Break
11:15 - 11:50	A. Lider
11:50 - 12:25	S. Chubb
12:25 - 12:45 H. Kozima
12:45 - 13:05	free slot

Afternoon: posters

16,00 - 17,00	Poster presentations (3 min/poster)
17,00 - 19,00	Poster session, including Coffee Break


26, Friday

10.00 - 12.00	Session on conclusions
12.00 - 14.00	Brunch
__________________

POSTER SESSIONS

Monday, May 22:
089. R.G. Agostino
081. Y.N. Bazhutov
026. T.A. Chubb
031. J.C. Fisher
039. R. George
076. T. Hanawa
044. H. Kozima
069. M. Swartz
067. T. Wang
104. H.P. Eppler
087. N. Samsonenko
012. A. Takahashi
021. I.B. Savvatimova
072. Q. Zhang
100. T.O. Passell
102. B. Cain
009. A.A. Kornilova
078. Ya.B. Skuratnik

Tuesday, May 23:
020. Y. Arata
001. I.P. Chernov
054. D. Chicea
040. J.J. Dufour
088. I. Goryachev
013. M. Ohta
084. A.B. Karabut
045. K. Arai
037. A.G. Lipson
027. V. Nassisi
036. R. Notoya
095. F. Scaramuzzi
080. Ya.B. Skuratnik
035. V. Violante
068. T. Wang
002. W.S. Zhang
099. A. Spallone
073. D.D. Afonichev
	
Thursday, May 25:
028. A. Di Vita
091. F. Frisone
011. H. Hora
005. K. Kamada
085. A.B. Karabut
060. N. Kubota
063. X.Z. Li
066. G.H. Miley
041. L. Oleari
090. K. Ota
094. A. Frattolillo
050. R. Stringham
008. V.I. Vysotskii
043. H. Yamada
003. W.S. Zhang
101. M. Miller
010. R.B. Lu
053. A.A. Nassikas
_______________



ICCF8 Secretary
Maria Luisa Ciceroni
Tel +39-06-94005854
Fax +39-06-94005855

Conference Web site  http://www.frascati.enea.it/ICCF8


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 18 07:50:50 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:41:38 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Scott Little <little earthtech.org>
Subject: BLP: HiFi Replication
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Gnorts,

I'm back from my travels and concentrating on the BLP experiment again.
Yesterday I filled my two Dewars with hot water and let the data
acquisition system record the cooling curve.  Calculations today indicate
that one of the Dewars is effectively full of air and the other one is only
somewhat better.  Neither is close to proper thermal performance, which
Mills Dewar's had when he did the experiment.

I called Pope and, even though I bought the Dewars thru Cole-Parmer, Pope
agreed to replace my Dewars directly with new, TESTED ones.  They should be
here in a couple of days.

Yes, Jed, the experiment would probably go faster if I deliberately ruined
the vacuum but then that wouldn't be a hifi replication, would it?



Scott Little, EarthTech Int'l, Inc.   http://www.earthtech.org
Suite 300, 4030 Braker Lane West, Austin TX 78759,  USA
512-342-2185 (voice), 512-346-3017 (FAX), little earthtech.org (email)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 18 07:54:15 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:52:54 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: BLP: HiFi Replication
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Scott Little wrote:

>Yes, Jed, the experiment would probably go faster if I deliberately ruined
>the vacuum but then that wouldn't be a hifi replication, would it?

I wasn't actually advocating that . . . just reporting what Srinivasan did
at one stage. I am big fan of doing it EXACTLY the way Mills did, at first.
You can make all the changes you like later.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 18 11:46:22 2000
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: BLP: HiFi Replication
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 14:57:42 -0400
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Jed writes:
>I wasn't actually advocating that . . . just reporting what Srinivasan did
>at one stage. I am big fan of doing it EXACTLY the way Mills did, at first.
>You can make all the changes you like later.
>
>- Jed

I agree, and especially with regard to the recombiner.  Welcome back, BTW,
it was pretty boring with you not here!

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 18 22:46:24 2000
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Squelching the Competition
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:58:04 -0400
Message-ID: <20000419055804281.AAA240 mail.lcia.com@lizard>
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Mitch writes:
>Check out
>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/technology/archive/1999/05/17/
coldf
>usion2.dtl&type=printable . This is a fascinating article about the
>obstacles that have been placed in the path of "cold fusion." --MJ

I just got this message from one of the Seattle underground rags that I read.
*********************
On April 3 Governor Gary Locke signed a bill that allows British Nuclear
Fuels Ltd. (BNFL) to <B>not pay property taxes on a glassification
plant</B>
it's scheduled to build at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation. This amounts to
about one billion dollars that won't be flowing through Washington State
coffers, all from the largest project in Hanfords history. But wait, it
gets worse. The governor's signature came only days after the Department of
Energy had sent a team of investigators over to England to look into
BNFL's latest scandal. Apparently both Germany and Japan returned shipments
of BNFL-produced fuel pellets intended for use in their nuclear reactors
after discovering that BNFL had falsified the fuels quality assurance
records. So why didn't the governor give BNFL the boot instead of a billion
dollar break? <I>--Mike McCormick</I>
*******************

Knuke




Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 01:41:14 2000
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:40:06 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick mail.highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Squelching the Competition
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At 1:58 AM -0400 4/19/00, Michael T Huffman wrote:

[quoting another source]
>So why didn't the governor give BNFL the boot instead of a billion
>dollar break?

Hate to extend the alliteration, but - bahksheesh?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 04:54:37 2000
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Two Hundred and Twenty-One pages (In case Mills doesn't deliver)  :-)

 http://www.stiltman.com/DOE-report.htm

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 06:28:07 2000
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Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:26:56 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
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This is an worthwhile report. The authors have a peculiar way of expressing
themselves in places:

	Meanwhile, the 40,000 sq. ft. greenhouse which was to be heated by the
	Agni boiler decided to go out of business, so it became necessary to
	seek a new site to install the prototype.

I didn't know greenhouses were sentient . . .

I do not see how biomass can reduce carbon buildup, since coal, oil and gas
are  ancient biomass too, but "fresh" biomass is a lot easier to access
than coal. You do not have to chop apart mountains to reach waste wood,
sawdust or garbage. It is right there, and it has to be disposed of, so it
makes sense to burn it. As this report explains, this stuff is no longer
"dirty" to burn, the way it was with old-style incinerators, which were an
environmental horror story.

Any landfill acts as a natural gassification plant. The big ones are now
designed with pipes to collect the gas, burn it, and generate electricity.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 08:56:01 2000
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass

Jed wrote:
> 
> I do not see how biomass can reduce carbon buildup, since coal, oil and gas
> are  ancient biomass too, but "fresh" biomass is a lot easier to access
> than coal.

For every 12 pounds of  fossil "ancient carbon" that took eons to fix,that is
mined and burned, you add 44 pounds of CO2 to the atmosphere and
deplete 32 pounds of O2.      C + O2 ---->   CO2 or CH4 +  2 O2 ---> CO2 + 2 H2O.

The biomass that has to photosynthesize (Fix) this added CO2 is also being 
depleted by the Earths tenents. 

"Recycled" Fresh Biomass Does Not Add to the net CO2 inventory.
> 
> Any landfill acts as a natural gassification plant. The big ones are now
> designed with pipes to collect the gas, burn it, and generate electricity.

Yes, but if you don't burn the methane seeping out of them, the CH4 is a worse Ozone Layer 
disrupting species than the Chlorine-Fluorine molecules.

Regards,      Frederick
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 09:19:57 2000
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Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:17:23 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
In-Reply-To: <003e01bfaa1f$997d5860$fc441d26 fjsparber>
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Frederick Sparber wrote:

>The biomass that has to photosynthesize (Fix) this added CO2 is also being 
>depleted by the Earths tenents. 
>
>"Recycled" Fresh Biomass Does Not Add to the net CO2 inventory.

While I am in favor of biomass energy, I do not see the logic of this.
Compare:

Case 1: You bury a kilogram of carbon in a landfill as newspaper, and you
dig up another kilogram of carbon as coal, and burn it.

Case 2: You gassify and burn the kilogram of carbon from the newspaper
instead of burying it, and you leave the coal where it is.

It seems to me the net CO2 inventory comes out the same, as long as the
amount of carbon based energy generated is the same. Case 2 is the more
sensible course of action when gassification is done properly. Pollution
from the competing processes, such as slag pile run off or gasification
leaks are complicated and vary with the technology and the investment, but
the CO2 comes out the same.

Now, if you leave the newspaper outside to rot, or flush it down a river,
that's another story. But when it is sequestered in a landfill the carbon
goes out of the loop. (That is, until people discover a use for it and 22nd
century robots dig it up. I expect that will be the fate of our landfills.)

The real answer is to stop using carbon energy, and use wind, solar,
fission or CF instead. But as long as we have mountains of sawdust and
chickenshit lying around, and we need the energy, it is better to burn them
than bury them.

In a related issue, I do not understand these fabulously expensive and
problematic looking schemes to sequester carbon from a coal-burning plant
under the ocean bed. It seems to me they would be sequestering carbon and
oxygen, which misses the point. The problem is the ratio of C to O in the air.

- Jed

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Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>; <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass

Jed wrote:

> Frederick Sparber wrote:
> 
> >The biomass that has to photosynthesize (Fix) this added CO2 is also being 
> >depleted by the Earths tenants. 
> >
> >"Recycled" Fresh Biomass Does Not Add to the net CO2 inventory.
> 
> While I am in favor of biomass energy, I do not see the logic of this.
> Compare:
> 
> Case 1: You bury a kilogram of carbon in a landfill as newspaper, and you
> dig up another kilogram of carbon as coal, and burn it.

How many kilograms of fossil carbon goes out the exhaust pipe of that gas buggy,
or out the stacks of natural gas or fuel oil-burning power plants and home chimneys?

If you bury the newspaper in a dry landfill where anerobic bacteria cannot metabolize it
then it would be an even swap. That along with non-biodegradables such as plastics
that I send to a DRY landfill every Thursday is why I Don't Recycle.
> 
> Case 2: You gassify and burn the kilogram of carbon from the newspaper
> instead of burying it, and you leave the coal where it is.

Good idea, now you're talking a biomass ecology which was what nature had
been doing for millennia until tapping into fossil fuels became doable.
> 
> It seems to me the net CO2 inventory comes out the same, as long as the
> amount of carbon based energy generated is the same. Case 2 is the more
> sensible course of action when gassification is done properly. Pollution
> from the competing processes, such as slag pile run off or gasification
> leaks are complicated and vary with the technology and the investment, but
> the CO2 comes out the same.

I don't think the world production of newsprint and cardboard is anywhere near
the production tonnage of fossil fuels.   :-)
> 
> Now, if you leave the newspaper outside to rot, or flush it down a river,
> that's another story. But when it is sequestered in a landfill the carbon
> goes out of the loop. (That is, until people discover a use for it and 22nd
> century robots dig it up. I expect that will be the fate of our landfills.)

The average landfill starts producing Methane that leaks into the atmosphere
at the onset. Most can be tapped, using wells in about 7 -10 years.
> 
> The real answer is to stop using carbon energy, and use wind, solar,
> fission or CF instead. But as long as we have mountains of sawdust and
> chickenshit lying around, and we need the energy, it is better to burn them
> than bury them.

Right on! PBS  (Frontline) had a program on Global Warming last night.
Seems more political than scientific. But, when the oceans warm up
a few degrees and dump part of their dissolved CO2 into the atmosphere causing
more "Greenhouse Effect" thus turning the biomass in them into rotting
cesspools, it might be too late.
> 
> In a related issue, I do not understand these fabulously expensive and
> problematic looking schemes to sequester carbon from a coal-burning plant
> under the ocean bed. It seems to me they would be sequestering carbon and
> oxygen, which misses the point. The problem is the ratio of C to O in the air.

Anything for a buck, no matter how stupid, huh?

Regards,    Frederick
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 13:31:49 2000
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Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:23:57 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
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Frederick Sparber wrote:

>If you bury the newspaper in a dry landfill where anerobic bacteria cannot
metabolize it
>then it would be an even swap. That along with non-biodegradables such as
plastics
>that I send to a DRY landfill every Thursday is why I Don't Recycle.

I've sworn to do my part too. Every Thursday I don't fart. (It helps with
the marriage also.)

I am also putting in 20 acres of oak and black wallnut trees, which will
sequester that 'ol carbon for a good 300 years.

- Jed

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Jed Rothwell wrote:

> I've sworn to do my part too. Every Thursday I don't fart. (It helps with
> the marriage also.)

This a noble thing to do since you risk SHC (spontaneous human
conbustion) by retaining your farts.

Actually, methane is BOTH a greenhouse gas and an ozone
depleter.  However, all those things you and Sparber have
discussed pale before the largest generators of methane: termite
and bovine flatulence.  Luckily, a new feed can reduce the
latter.  See:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000412/sc/science_warming_2.html

BTW, cows eject methane from both ends.  The cow belch could
destroy humanity.  Eat more chiken!  It's the digestion of
cellulose which generates so much of that noxious gas.

(Oh, I wondered why you hadn't written much here until I read SPF
today.  Give 'em hell, Jed!)

Terry

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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
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Terry Blanton wrote:

>This a noble thing to do since you risk SHC (spontaneous human
>conbustion) by retaining your farts.

SHC? Oh, that's just a myt . . . <FOOM!>


>(Oh, I wondered why you hadn't written much here until I read SPF
>today.  Give 'em hell, Jed!)

Talk about farting! I have wasted far too much time there, and I will stop.

I need to finish up this ICCF8 translation for Mizuno and Takahashi. I am
in the last section which I not understand, which makes me nervous. They
sent me a rough English version. I guess they know the proper English
terminology. I hope they do. I have no clue what "E1 giant resonance" a
"double magic [electron] shell" or "double closed nuclei" would be.

- Jed

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Subject: Re: Info. from BLP website
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The following paragraph was recently added to the BLP
website at: http://www.blacklightpower.com/techpapers.html

Note about the gyrotron: When free electrons of a plasma are magnetized with an
external magnetic field, they emit microwaves. In a properly designed cavity,
they synchronize and emit high power microwaves with high conversion
efficiencies. The microwave output which essentially equals the plasma power can
be almost totally converted to DC electric. Advantages: no fuel issues,
essentially no emissions including heat, no Carnot cycle, very cheap, simple,
and essentially maintenance free.
-
What the synchronization mechanism??
-
George Holz                george varisys.com
Varitronics Systems     1924 US Hwy 22 East
Bound Brook, NJ          08805



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 14:47:34 2000
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Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:51:14 -0400 (EDT)
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	Dear Folks,

	At the bottom of this post, see flag, please.

On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, George Holz wrote:

> The following paragraph was recently added to the BLP
> website at: http://www.blacklightpower.com/techpapers.html
> 
> Note about the gyrotron: When free electrons of a plasma are magnetized with an
> external magnetic field, they emit microwaves. In a properly designed cavity,
> they synchronize and emit high power microwaves with high conversion
> efficiencies. 

______________----------- FLAG  --------________________

The microwave output which essentially equals the plasma power can
> be almost totally converted to DC electric. 


	Q:  What is the method to convert Microwave to DC at power levels?
	OR:
	Q:  How is the plasma, RF plasma, converted to DC?

			Thanks

					John

Advantages: no fuel issues,
> essentially no emissions including heat, no Carnot cycle, very cheap, simple,
> and essentially maintenance free.
> -
> What the synchronization mechanism??
> -
> George Holz                george varisys.com
> Varitronics Systems     1924 US Hwy 22 East
> Bound Brook, NJ          08805
> 
> 
> 
> 

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John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
wrote:
> 
> The microwave output which essentially equals the plasma power can
> > be almost totally converted to DC electric. 
> 
> Q:  What is the method to convert Microwave to DC at power levels?
>
-
This part should not be too difficult, an antenna like transducer
follower by a GaAs rectifier would be one approach.
 -
 OR:
> Q:  How is the plasma, RF plasma, converted to DC?
-
First it is converted to coherent microwave radiation.
The microwave to dc should be easy.
The first conversion in the gyrotron requires an answer to
my question. What the synchronization mechanism??
What  causes the electron oscillations to become coherent?
- 
George Holz                george varisys.com
Varitronics Systems     1924 US Hwy 22 East
Bound Brook, NJ          08805



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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:51:19 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:57:09 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote:
[snip]
>terminology. I hope they do. I have no clue what "E1 giant resonance" a
>"double magic [electron] shell" or "double closed nuclei" would be.
>
Hi Jed,

I don't think the "[electron]" is correct. Nuclei are double magic when both
protons and neutrons are "magic" numbers e.g. Ca40 which has 20 protons and
20 neutrons (20 being a "magic" number).
As to "double closed nuclei", you've got me beat!
>- Jed

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

Intelligence is the measure of one's ability to question
one's assumptions.

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Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:55:11 +1000
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On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:42:01 -0400, George Holz wrote:
[snip]
>-
>What the synchronization mechanism??
Standing waves in the cavity, stimulating photon emission in phase with the
standing waves (see laser operation)? Isn't this how a maser works?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

Intelligence is the measure of one's ability to question
one's assumptions.

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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

>I don't think the "[electron]" is correct.

Yikes! Well, that was my fault. I interpolated that. At least I put it in
brackets.



>As to "double closed nuclei", you've got me beat!

I hope Takahashi's audience knows. I am sure his English vocabulary of
physics is miles ahead of mine.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 18:03:42 2000
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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Squelching the Competition
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:15:34 -0400
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>At 1:58 AM -0400 4/19/00, Michael T Huffman wrote:
>
>[quoting another source]
>>So why didn't the governor give BNFL the boot instead of a billion
>>dollar break?
>
>Hate to extend the alliteration, but - bahksheesh?
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI

Yeah, Locke has been preening for the VP nomination for years, and you don't
get it unless you bring a lot of bucks to the party, which he has in a big
way, but it gets even weirder.  Evidently, BNFL is the lead contractor on
several DOE nuclear Superfund sites that have been having "cost and
effectiveness" trouble.  After BFNL got the Hanford clean-up contract, they
immediately nearly doubled the cost estimate from 9 billion to 13 billion
bucks.  Then they appointed a guy named Lawrence to head up the project at
the start-up, but took away all design and fiscal control from him.  I'm not
sure if Lawrence is a US citizen or not, but BFNL basically appointed him as
general manager, then took away all his authority and made him into more or
less a figurehead, effectively transferring control over Hanford to the
British BNFL main office.  As a result, he resigned a couple of days ago.

To me, it says that under WTO agreement, not only does the rest of the world
business community have the ability to buy the influence of high level US
government officials with regard to contracting and tax breaks that are
worth tens of billions for *each* project.  They also can gain a grossly
inordinate amount of control over the handling of such sensitive and
potentially dangerous materials such as nuclear waste on US soil.  All
totalled, it turns the US democratic and regulatory processes into
commodities that can be bought and sold by anyone in the world for the few
peanuts it takes to get the pretty boys into the White House and Congress.
We ourselves are being colonized now by corrupt foreign corporations who
have even less regard for the well being of the citizenry than our own
corrupt corporations.

This is no way to run a world.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 19 18:08:31 2000
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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Squelching the Competition: Minor Correction
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:19:42 -0400
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I wrote:

  After BFNL got the Hanford clean-up contract, they
>immediately nearly doubled the cost estimate from 9 billion to 13 billion
>bucks.

Sorry.  That should read "from 7 billion to 13 billion", but what's a couple
of billion between friends?

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 02:21:48 2000
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Subject: Mills' US Patent 06,024,935 details viewed online
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April 20, 2,000

Vortex,

Randell L. Mills and three other persons were granted patent 6,024,935
on Feb. 15, 2,000 on an application filed on March 21, 1997. The filing
date is almost eight years from the date of Pon's & Fleischman's
announcement (by University of Utah) of "CF in a bottle". 
The Abstract of the patent application has been posted by Blacklight
Power on its web Site for some time now, but the actual patent details
were not provided. Most curious were its 499 claims on the patent to
buttress its application. Also interesting was the structure of the
application. It might be an interesting guideline for future CF patent
applications coming along.
I have been finding, on study, that more than likely important patents
can be a fragile privilege and a process that can easily eat up time and
fortunes and promise no results. And the granted patents can be
overturned later on 're-examination' by the Patent Office on request.

Anyway, look into
<<http:/patent.wormplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US06024935_>>
or start from <<http://patent.wormplex.ibm.com>> and work to the patent.

Thanks to IBM for the online service.

-AK-

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 02:46:43 2000
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At 9:19 PM -0400 4/19/00, Michael T Huffman wrote:

>Sorry.  That should read "from 7 billion to 13 billion", but what's a couple
>of billion between friends?

Damn. For a second there, I thought there was someone else on this 
list as bad at math as I am.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 03:28:38 2000
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April 20, 2,000

Vortex,

It seems, on testing, the listed address for
Mills Patent details do not work as copied.
The other way to access the patent details is
to let a web searcher look under 'IBM
Intellectual Property Network' then go from
there.

-ak-

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 04:52:28 2000
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References: <20000330044446.6143.qmail web2103.mail.yahoo.com> <38E38392.38C5@skylink.net> <005301bf9aa0$24f9f8b0$0c6cd626@varisys.com> <o718es0l2tm0mk6p6cuagra9mr8oo2jr7d@4ax.com> <003e01bfaa48$186a7360$0c6cd626@varisys.com> <15esfs8486d3m18g6ri8jsjr5cr4
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:42:01 -0400, George Holz wrote:
> [snip]
> >-
> >What the synchronization mechanism??
> Standing waves in the cavity, stimulating photon emission in phase with the
> standing waves (see laser operation)? Isn't this how a maser works?

There's an easily understood primer on the gyrotron at:

http://www.cpii.com/mpp/Products/primer.html

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 05:49:32 2000
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Jed wrote:
 
 I do not see how biomass can reduce carbon buildup ...

Hi Jed and Frederick,

The current combustion of fossil fuels to CO2 and other
things seems to be reversing a trend that has been having
deleterious effects since the end of the Cretaceous 65 million
years ago.  With Wegener in vogue, the upthrust of the Himalayan
Mountains is explained by the impact of the Indian plate on the Asian
plate; and all this new rock face is eroding off calcium salts such
as CaCl2.  Maureen Raymo (I think) is the leading proponent of
the position that this squesters carbon and leads to long-term
cooling with a steady-state iceball Earth as the end result.

The calcium salts react with atmospheric CO2 to produce carbonates
which end up in the oceans, where shellfish use them, die, drift to
the bottom and become limestone.  The CO2 concentration has dropped
from 1000 ppm at the end of the Age of the Dinosaurs to current levels
giving C-4 plants like grass an advantage, and helping to make
possible the currnet run of ice ages.

"One man's meat is another man's poison,"  and cool weather
enthusiasts like myself may not be too happy with a really green
and buggy Earth; but the alternative could be much worse.
What we can be sure of is that one way or the other things are
going to change.  They always have.

Jack Smith


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 06:45:34 2000
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 <003e01bfaa1f$997d5860$fc441d26 fjsparber>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:43:56 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: DOE-report on Biomass
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>Jed wrote:
>
> I do not see how biomass can reduce carbon buildup ...
>
>Hi Jed and Frederick,
>
>The current combustion of fossil fuels to CO2 and other
>things seems to be reversing a trend that has been having
>deleterious effects since the end of the Cretaceous 65 million
>years ago.  With Wegener in vogue, the upthrust of the Himalayan
>Mountains is explained by the impact of the Indian plate on the Asian
>plate; and all this new rock face is eroding off calcium salts such
>as CaCl2.  Maureen Raymo (I think) is the leading proponent of
>the position that this squesters carbon and leads to long-term
>cooling with a steady-state iceball Earth as the end result.
>
>The calcium salts react with atmospheric CO2 to produce carbonates
>which end up in the oceans, where shellfish use them, die, drift to
>the bottom and become limestone.  The CO2 concentration has dropped
>from 1000 ppm at the end of the Age of the Dinosaurs to current levels
>giving C-4 plants like grass an advantage, and helping to make
>possible the currnet run of ice ages.
>
>"One man's meat is another man's poison,"  and cool weather
>enthusiasts like myself may not be too happy with a really green
>and buggy Earth; but the alternative could be much worse.
>What we can be sure of is that one way or the other things are
>going to change.  They always have.
>
>Jack Smith

***{Good points. As I have pointed out here in the past, CO2 is food for
plants, and the atmospheric levels have been many orders of magnitude
higher in the past than they are today without producing any sort of global
meltdown. Moreover, the impact on atmospheric CO2 by the upthrust of new
rock face that you pointed out is unarguable, documented fact. Untold
trillions of tons of atmospheric CO2 have been bound into limestone as a
consequence of this process, and denied to the biosphere. That's why all
the screeching about the dangers CO2 production by the continued burning of
fossil fuels are a horror story concocted by the morally and intellectually
challenged, and nothing more. The only significant effect of man's CO2
production is a beneficial one: the expansion of the biosphere. In point of
fact, the strongest criticism that can be directed at nuclear power is
that, if it were to replace the burning of fossil fuels, this source of CO2
production would be eliminated. --Mitchell Jones}***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 08:08:11 2000
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This link seems to work:

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US06024935__

> It seems, on testing, the listed address for
> Mills Patent details do not work as copied.
> The other way to access the patent details is
> to let a web searcher look under 'IBM
> Intellectual Property Network' then go from
> there.
> 
> -ak-
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 12:00:15 2000
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April 20, 2000

Peter Gluck kindly wrote a correction: It seems I had a mental block on
the word womplex vs 'wormplex'.

-ak-
 
> Have seen your message re. Mills's patent , the site is now at
> <<www.patents.ibm.com>>, in the old name it was WOMPLEX not WORMPLEX.

> I am working very hard for Websearch, learning search engines and
> methods and solving problems. Up to the standard 11 hours per day, 5-6
> here and the rest at home processing Mbytes of messages.

> Not many CF news for the time given; good things coming from BLP.

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Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
wrote:
> Standing waves in the cavity, stimulating photon emission in phase with the
> standing waves (see laser operation)? Isn't this how a maser works?
>
Yes, but this mechanism does not appear to be appropriate
here, no population inversion is mentioned by BLP and
pumping a microwave emission with a vacuum UV photon
seems unlikely and inefficient.
-
>Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net> wrote:
>There's an easily understood primer on the gyrotron at:
http://www.cpii.com/mpp/Products/primer.html
-
Thanks for the reference Terry. The gyrotron is normally used
to turn electron beam energy into microwave energy. It is not
clear how this would apply to a plasma without the electron beam.
-
The relevant section of the primer states:
The electron rotational frequency is proportional to the magnetic field, and has
a relativistic dependence on the electron velocity. As a result, azimuthal
(rather than axial) bunching of the beam can occur, as depicted in the figure
below, if the electron cyclotron frequency is near that of a resonant cavity
mode. This azimuthal bunching effect is also known as the *electron cyclotron
maser instability*, and can result in the transfer of significant amounts of
power from the electron beam to the excited mode.
-
Perhaps the "electron cyclotron maser instability" is capable of
operating in a plasma with a random set of electron trajectories.
The azimuthal bunching could result in increased coherence
at the cavity resonant frequency.
-
George Holz                george varisys.com
Varitronics Systems     1924 US Hwy 22 East
Bound Brook, NJ          08805





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Greetings,

Vortex is quite an interesting mailing list to me. I want to just
generally ramble a bit generally.

Firstly, I'd like to call your attention to an article by Dewey B.
Larson:

http://www.interpres.cz/sr/rs/dimmot/dimmot.htm
http://www.interpres.cz/sr/rs

This is the article that first got my interest up in his "Reciprocal
System" of
physics, a unified general theory.  It's the first coherent explanation
of what
magnetism and gravity really are.  He's also showed that all physical
units
can be expressed in terms of the dimensions of space and time only, no
separate units for charge, etc.  Quite an accomplishment I think.

One thing led to another and now I'm president of the "International
Society
of Unified Science, Inc", a group dedicated to promoting Larson's
theory.

Most of the discussions on Vortex-L are based on conventional physical
theory.

I'd like to suggest that if you really want to get new insights, look at
things
from Larson's new perspective, where everything is composed only of
geometrical
assemblies of the fundamental particle, the "unit-of-motion" or
"space-time-unit".

Caution, though.  You can't mix the two approaches, you'll get nonsense.
But then, it seems, a great amount of conventional physics is nonsense
:-).

Here are just a few of Larson's conclusions:

Atoms are essentially agglomerations of units of motion, and more
particularly
photons that are constantly changing direction so as to loop onto
themselves. 
To convert mass to energy, the photons are just straightened out to
linear radiation.

Gravity is 3 dimensional inward scalar motion, Magnetism is two
dimensional inward
scalar motion, and electric fields are 1 dimensional scalar motion.
Moving
a mass (3d) through a magnetic field (2d) leaves an electric field
residue (1d).

This implies (my interpretation and invention) that when an electric
current is
passed through a conductor creating a magnetic field, the magnetic field
is
a residue of the 3d gravity (mass) of the conductor where one of the
dimensions
has been partially neutralized, which implies that the mass of the
conductor
has been reduced accordingly.  I think Graneau et al. have found this to
be
the case with rail gun experiments.  This allows, through specific
flywheel
implementations, a reactionless thruster.

Larson's theory, being completely general, addresses everything from
sub-atomic
to galactic.  Faster than light movement is common in the universe, and
cosmic rays and gamma ray bursts are manifestations of such superluminal
particles
making an entrance into our sector.  There was no big-bang. That's a
nonsense concept.
There's a constant 15 femto-g repulsive acceleration (the expansion of
the universe)
ever present opposing gravity.  That explains why globular clusters are
stable,
why stars never get closer than about 4 light-years (they repel each
other, unless
they're orbiting), etc. (Amazing, after many years, conventional
physicists finally
are having to address that, although, they will surely take the credit
for
the idea).

The sun is not powered by fusion, but by the thermal conversion of the
heavy
elements (logical, isn't it? the heavy elements migrate to the center).
(See "Glimpses into the structure of the Sun" by KVK Nehru).

There are no "black holes", another nonsense concept base on twelve or
more assumptions
with no evidence for most.  The universe is steady state.  Expansion is
just
an inherent property of it.  When particles or stars reach beyond c,
they lose their
"position" in space" and reappear at random places (cosmic rays).

Electrons are uncharged particles, that can acquire a charge. 
Uncharged, they
are almost unobservable neutrino like particles.  There is a clear
distinction
between charge and electric current, which is generally the movement of
uncharged
electrons through matter.  This concept helps straighten out many
experimental
anomalies.

Best Regards,
Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.
Phoenix

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 20 22:19:50 2000
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From: Michael Schaffer <schaffermj yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Info. from BLP website
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> The following paragraph was recently added to the BLP
> website at: http://www.blacklightpower.com/techpapers.html
> 
> Note about the gyrotron: When free electrons of a plasma are magnetized
> with an
> external magnetic field, they emit microwaves. In a properly designed
> cavity,
> they synchronize and emit high power microwaves with high conversion
> efficiencies. The microwave output which essentially equals the plasma
> power can
> be almost totally converted to DC electric. Advantages: no fuel issues,
> essentially no emissions including heat, no Carnot cycle, very cheap,
> simple,
> and essentially maintenance free.
> -
> What the synchronization mechanism??

Yeah. If only we knew how to efficiently convert plasma energy directly to
electrical, hot fusion would get easier, too. 

Synchrotron radiation can be converted to DC in principle, by antenna-diode
"rectennas", but no efficient and power-capable rectenna devices exist for
the appropriate frequencies. Rectennas, at least, convert incoherent
radiation. 

An inverse gyrotron would need a coherent, single-mode EM wave. Plasmas
usually do not generate single mode waves, not even when in a resonant
cavity. George Holz correctly identified a couple of the reasons why.


=====
Michael J. Schaffer



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com

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"Hoyt A. Stearns Jr." wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Vortex is quite an interesting mailing list to me. I want to just
> generally ramble a bit generally.
> 
> Firstly, I'd like to call your attention to an article by Dewey B.
> Larson:
> 
> http://www.interpres.cz/sr/rs/dimmot/dimmot.htm
> http://www.interpres.cz/sr/rs

Being simple-minded, I had a bit of trouble following what was
being said on the pages referenced above.  I have found it easier
to understand Mr. Larson's premise by starting with:

http://www.crosswinds.net/%7Einterpres/sr/spu/index.htm

specifically, The Structure of the Physical Universe.  I have
read only a few sections; but, I find the approach fascinating! 
I have always believed that explanations which deviated
drastically from our intuitive concepts of reality could not
possibly be true.  

I am surprised that I have never heard of Mr. Larson or these
concepts until your post.  Thanks!

Terry

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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Apr 21, 2000
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:32:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 21 Apr
00   Washington, DC

1. FLASH!!  RUSSIA APPROVES THE COMPREHENSIVE
TEST BAN TREATY. 
Last week it was Start II (WN 14 Apr 00). 
Today, in another
impressive arms control victory for President
Vladimir Putin, the
Duma ratified the CTBT 298-74, with only
feeble opposition from
the Communists.  The action appears to give
Russia the initiative
in nuclear arms talks, and strengthens
Putin's hand in resisting
any change in the 1972 ABM treaty.  The
United States and China
are the only genuine nuclear powers still
holding out on CTBT,
although nuclear wannabes North Korea,
Pakistan, India and Egypt
must also ratify the treaty before it can go
into effect. 

2. SPY HYSTERIA: DOWNLOADED INFORMATION WAS
RECLASSIFIED.  The
Albuquerque Journal broke the story last
week.  It turns out that
the "crown jewels" of the US nuclear weapons
program, the loss of
which could, in the government's words,
"change the strategic
global balance," held a much lower
classification when they were
downloaded by Wen Ho Lee.  At that time they
were designated as
PARD, for "protect as restricted data," a
category reserved for
information in which any secrets are thinly
scattered in a huge
volume of unclassified material.  Rules for
protecting PARD are
much less stringent than for information
classified "secret." 
Only after charges were filed against Lee did
officials assign
higher levels of classification to the
downloaded material.  The
new information serves to underscore the
contrast between the
treatment of John Deutch, whose security
clearance was revoked,
and Lee, who is incarcerated in solitary
confinement and shackled
hand and foot during the brief visits of his
family.

3. GLOBAL WARMING?  AS EARTH WARMS, THE
RHETORIC MAY BE COOLING.
Five years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on
Climate Change
(IPCC), an international group of climate
experts sponsored by
the United Nations, issued a report
suggesting that warming of
the climate by a degree or so since 1860 is
the result of human
activity.  Conservative organizations
promptly opened fire on the
integrity of the IPCC (WN 21 Jun 96).  The
preliminary draft of a
new IPCC assessment, now circulating among
its several hundred
members for comment, reaches about the same
conclusion, but with
much less uncertainty, yet complaints are
likely to be muted. 
Science is doing its thing: moving toward
consensus between
groups with very different initial
expectations.  As long as both
sides stick to the scientific process, the
intensity of the
debate serves as a powerful motivation for
better climate
research.  The debate seems to be shifting
from whether global
warming is taking place to whether warming is
such a bad thing. 

4. AREA 51: IS THAT A TENNIS COURT? 
Commenting on the first
commercial satellite images of the super
secret site, a Pentagon
spokesman didn't do much to squelch UFO
rumors: "we have had more
than 40 years to learn how to deal with
overhead surveillance." 

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions
are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS,
but they should be.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 21 14:55:27 2000
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In a message dated 04/19/2000 2:38:28 PM, George Holz quoted the BLP website 
about Mills' projected gyrotron generator:

<<The microwave output which essentially equals the plasma power can

be almost totally converted to DC electric. Advantages: no fuel issues,

essentially no emissions including heat, no Carnot cycle, very cheap, simple,

and essentially maintenance free.>>

Wow.  But is there any indication on the website that BLP has built even a 
proof-of-principle device?

George then asked what the mechanism for synchronization of the magnetized 
electrons was.  Wouldn't we all love to know that.  

Mills has a new and better model of the free electron, and if BLP can build 
even a proof-of-principle reverse gyrotron, the scientific world may finally 
take his model seriously.

Tom Stolper

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	Dear Vo.,

	In post, below, please see note, question [s], comment
at FLAG:

On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 Tstolper aol.com wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 04/19/2000 2:38:28 PM, George Holz quoted the BLP website 
> about Mills' projected gyrotron generator:
> 
> <<The microwave output which essentially equals the plasma power can

_______________________	   FLAG	__________________________	

	Q:  By what method is microwave power converted to DC?	
	Q:  How is it that there will be no heat emitted?

> 
> be almost totally converted to DC electric. Advantages: no fuel issues,
> 
> essentially no emissions including heat, no Carnot cycle, very cheap, simple,
> 
> and essentially maintenance free.>>
> 
> Wow.  But is there any indication on the website that BLP has built even a 
> proof-of-principle device?
> 
> George then asked what the mechanism for synchronization of the magnetized 
> electrons was.  Wouldn't we all love to know that.  
> 
> Mills has a new and better model of the free electron, and if BLP can build 
> even a proof-of-principle reverse gyrotron, the scientific world may finally 
> take his model seriously.
> 
> Tom Stolper
> 
i

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 21 15:44:30 2000
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Tom wrote:

>Mills has a new and better model of the free electron, and if BLP can build 
>even a proof-of-principle reverse gyrotron, the scientific world may finally 
>take his model seriously.

If he would build and DEMONSTRATE any of the gadgets he claims he can make,
the scientific and business world would be at his feet. A few dozen crude
prototypes that work intermittently would do the job. He would have Nobel
prizes in physics and chemistry, and he would drowning in venture capital.
As long as he keeps the prototypes locked up, he will never convince
anyone. I have spoken with him and his colleagues and I do not think they
*want* to convince people. They want to be taken seriously, but their
desire for secrecy, control and "future market share" is stronger.

They might succeed in gathering enough money & talent now, and building the
products without convincing the world first. They might launch products
with minimal outside help. At that moment they will convince everyone. The
strategy might work, but it is highly  risky. It can easily lead to
failure, if they make one small wrong turn, and it will surely take years
longer than it should. The profit they might have earned in those lost
years can never be recovered. The competitive advantage they gain by
keeping the technology secret now will be fleeting. It may only last a few
months, certainly not longer than a year or two, because the early
implementations of a radical new technology become obsolete overnight. Look
at how quickly transistors changed in the early 1950s, and how soon the
original AT&T designs were obsolete. A dozen different designs and
manufacturing methods came and went in a few years. The only reasonable
business strategy was to patent the transistor and license it as quickly as
possible, which is what AT&T did.

I have said all of this before, as I am sure people here recognize. (As
their eyes glaze over.) Recently someone accused me of peddling radical new
business theories that fly in the face of standard corporate practices.
They even said I want to "give away the store" and I am some kind of
idealist. CETI once accused me of that. I'd like to say that I despise
idealists and I distrust new ideas. I am a conservative. I am unoriginal.
The business strategy I outlined here comes out of business management
textbooks published by staid places like the Wall Street Journal and
Harvard Business School. Naturally, the authors of these tomes do not all
agree. You can find an equal and opposite business school professor who
will endorse Mills' strategy. It is not an exact science: you have to read
the textbooks and case studies and use your own best judgement. I favor the
AT&T model, but others may point to successful examples at places like IBM
where secrecy was maintained, products developed, and good profits were
made. As Mike Carrell pointed out, AT&T chose this strategy partly in
response to political pressure from Washington and the military. It was not
only a business decision, but it worked out well in business terms.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 21 19:58:18 2000
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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Is the moon hollow?
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***{I pulled the following article off of another list. It is bizarre but
interesting. Caveat emptor! --Mitchell Jones}***

*************************************
Moon, Where Are You From?

By Yingzhong Lu, selected from The Crown, 499, September 1995

      When did the moon first accompany our earth?  Perhaps it has been
looking at the earth long before human beings appeared on earth.  People
say that there is a Freezing-Cold Palace on the moon where an ancient
beauty named Chang-E lives, along with a white rabbit and a man called Wu
Gang, astronauts from the Apollo 11 mission to the moon on July 19, 1969
did not see the Freezing-Cold Palace, nor Lady Chang-E and her rabbit, nor
Wu Gang and his cassia trees.  Many of us charmed by the legend were
somewhat disappointed by the scientific findings.

      Twenty-six years have passed since the first moon landing, yet human
beings are no wiser than before about the moon.  On the contrary,
scientists are now perplexed by the data gathered by the instruments left
on the moon. When we look at the moon at night, we a have familiar yet
strange feeling. We can't help but ask, "Dear moon, could you tell us about
your true self?"

      At present, there are three theories to explain how the moon
originated.  The first one is that the dust and gaseous clouds from the
universe formed the moon, just like our earth, 4.6 billion years ago.  The
second theory is that the moon was thrown off from the earth and the
Pacific Ocean is the place from which it came.  The third theory believes
that the moon was an independent planet that was captured by the earth's
gravitational force when passing by, and it has been revolving around the
earth ever since.

      Most scientists initially believed in the first theory, although some
favoured the second one.  Yet, analysis of the moon soil samples brought
back by astronauts indicates that the composition of the moon is different
from that of the earth.  The earth has more iron and less silicon deposited
in it, while the moon is just the opposite.  In addition, the earth has
very few titanium ores, whereas the moon has many.  These findings show
that the moon was not separated from the earth.  By the same token, the
first hypothesis is also shaky.  If the moon and earth were formed through
the same process, at around the same time, then why are they so different
in their composition?  Scientists have abandoned the first theory, which
leaves only the last theory.  If the moon entered the solar system from
outer space, it should have flown towards the Sun instead of being held by
the earth, because of the sun's much stronger gravitational pull.

      None of the three hypotheses proposed by orthodox scientists answers
all of the questions or holds up to scrutiny.  The origin of the moon still
remains a mystery.  There is plenty of room for people to propose new
theories on the origin of the moon.  No matter how ridiculous the theories
may seem, they should not be lightly labeled nonscientific.

The Peculiar Phenomena Between the Sun, Earth, and Moon

      Let's take a look at and think about some of the unbelievably
peculiar astronomical phenomena that occur between the sun, earth and moon.

      The average distance between the earth and the moon is 380,000 km,
and between the sun and the earth is about 150,000,000 km.  The latter is
about 395 times further than the former.  The diameter of the sun is about
1,380,000 km, while that of the moon is 3,400 km; the ratio of the two is
again 395 times greater.  Both ratios are 395.  Could it be a coincidence?
What does it mean?

      Please think about it.  The sun is 395 times larger than the moon,
yet it is 395 times farther away from the earth than the moon.  The two
appear the same size when seen from earth because of the distance
differences.  Is this a natural or artificial phenomenon?  Where in the
universe can one find three celestial bodies with this kind of coincidence?

      The two planets shine on the earth in turns, one during the day and
the other at night.  There is not another example of such phenomena in our
solar system.  The prestigious scientist, Isaac Asimov, once said that,
according to all the data available, the moon in principle should not exist
in that position.  He also said, "The moon is big enough to result in a
solar eclipse, yet small enough to generate corona.  Our astronomy just
can't explain the coincidence among the coincidences."

      Is it really a coincidence?  Not really, according to some
scientists. William R. Sheldon, a scientist, said, "In order to orbit
around the earth, a spaceship has to maintain a velocity of 10,800 miles
per hour at a height of 100 miles.  Similarly, in order for the moon to
keep itself in its orbit to balance the earth's gravitational force, it
also needs accurate velocity, self-weight, and altitude."  The question is:
if the current set of conditions is impossible to achieve by nature, why
are they this way?

It's Too Big to be a Satellite

      There are several planets in the solar system that have naturally
occurring satellites.   However, the moon is unnaturally large for a
satellite.  It is too large in comparison to its parent planet.  Let us
take a look at the following data.  The earth's diameter is 12,756 km; the
moon's is 3,467 km, which is about 27% that of the earth's.  Mars' diameter
is 6,787 km.  Mars has two satellites.  The larger one has a diameter of 23
km, about 0.34% that of Mars.  Jupiter's diameter is 142,800 km.  It has 13
satellites.  The largest one has a diameter of 5,000 km, which is 3.5% of
Jupiter's.  Saturn's diameter is 120,000 km.  It has 23 satellites.  The
largest one has a diameter of 4,500 km, which is about 3.75% of Saturn's
diameter.  None of the satellites has a diameter exceeding 5% of the parent
planet's diameter, but the moon's is 27% of the earth's diameter.  Isn't
the moon unnaturally large by comparison?  The data indeed indicates that
the moon is extraordinary.

The Meteorite Craters Are All Too Shallow

      Scientists tell us that the craters on the surface of the moon were
caused by the impact of meteors or comets.  There are also meteorite
craters on earth.  According to scientific calculations, if a meteorite of
several miles in diameter hits the earth or the moon at a speed of 30,000
miles per second, which is equivalent to one million tons of dynamite, the
depth of the crater it creates should be four to five times that of its
diameter. The meteorite craters on earth prove this to be correct.  Yet the
craters on the moon are strangely shallow.  For example, Gagrin Crater, the
deepest one, is only four miles deep, although its diameter is 186 miles.
With a diameter of 186 miles, the depth of the crater should be at least
700 miles, instead of 4 miles, which is just 12% of the diameter.  This is
another scientific impossibility.

      Why is it so?  Astronomers are unable to come up with a perfect
explanation and they don't seem to want to either.  They know that a
perfect explanation would overturn established theories.  The only
explanation is that the moon's crust is composed of a very hard substance
four miles beneath the surface.  The meteorites have failed to penetrate
this hard layer.  Then, what is the very hard substance?

Metals Whose Existence is Impossible

      It is not strange that the moon craters have a great deal of lava.
What is strange is that the lava contains rich metal elements such as
titanium, chromium, yttrium, etc., which are rarely found on earth.  Those
metals are all very hard and resistant to both high temperatures and
corrosion.  Scientists estimate that it requires 2000-3000( C to melt these
metals.  But the moon has been a dead and cold planet without volcanic
activity for three billion years.  How did the moon generate so many kinds
of metals that require such high temperatures to melt?  Moreover, analysis
of the 380 kg of moon soil samples brought back by astronauts shows that
there is pure iron and pure titanium.  Such pure metal deposits just aren't
found under natural conditions.

      What do the unexplainable facts tell us?  They have undoubtedly
demonstrated that these metal elements were not formed under natural
conditions, but were extracted.  Then the questions is by whom and when?

The Side that Can't Be Seen from the Earth

      It is always the same side of the moon that faces the earth.  Man did
not see the opposite side until the spaceship landed there and photographed
it.  Astronomers had always thought that the backside should be similar to
the front with many meteorite craters and lava seas.  But the photographs
showed a much different scene.  The backside of the moon is very bumpy.
Most are small craters and mountain ranges with very few lava seas.

      Scientists are unable to explain the differences.  In theory, the
probability of being hit by meteorites should be the same for both sides of
the moon if it was a naturally formed planet.  Why is there a difference?
Why is it always the same side of the moon that faces the earth?  The
explanation from the scientists is that the moon rotates around its own
axis with a velocity of 16.56 km per hour, and it also revolves around the
earth at exactly the same speed.  Thus the same side always faces the earth.

      This phenomenon does not exist for any other planet and its
satellites in our solar system-only for our earth and moon.  Is it another
coincidence along with the other coincidences?  Is there an explanation
other than coincidence?

Strange Phenomena in the Past Hundreds of Years

      For the last 300 hundred years, astronomers have observed many
unexplainable phenomena about the moon.  Casini discovered a cluster of
clouds over the moon in 1671.  In April 1786, William Herser, the father of
modern astronomy, observed the signs of volcanic eruptions on the moon,
although scientists believe that there has not been any volcanic activity
on the moon for 3 billion years.  Then, what was observed that looked like
volcanic eruptions?

      In 1843, German astronomer John Schicoto, who made hundreds of maps
of the moon, found that the Leany Crater, with an original diameter of
several kilometers, was becoming smaller.  Today, the Leany Crater is only
a tiny spot with white sediment surrounding it.  Scientists do not know
why.  On April 24, 1882, scientists discovered that there were unidentified
objects moving on the surface in the Aristocrat's Zone.  On October 19,
1945, the Darwin Wall on the surface of the moon was observed to have three
shiny points on it.

      On the evening of July 6, 1954, the head of the Minnesota Observatory
and his assistants saw a dark line inside the Picallomy Crater, which
shortly disappeared.  On September 8, 1955, lightning appeared twice along
the edge of the Ross Crater.  Again on February 9, 1956, Dr. Toyota, Meiji
University, Japan, saw several dark objects that seemed to have formed the
shape of letters DYAX and JWA.

      On February 4, 1966, a Russian unmanned space-vehicle, Moon Goddess
9, landed on the Rain Sea and photographed two rows of pyramid-like
structures that were equidistant from each other. Dr. Van Sunder stated,
"They could strongly reflect the sunlight, pretty much like the marks on
runways." Calculated from the length of the shadows, the structures are
about as high as a fifteen-story building.  Dr. Van Sunder said, "There
were no highlands nearby from which the rocks would have rolled over to the
current positions to form the geometrical shapes."

      Additionally, Moon Goddess 9 also photographed a mysterious cave on
the edge of the Stormy Sea.  Moon research expert Dr. Wilkins believes that
these circular caves go directly to the center of the moon.  Wilkins
himself once discovered a gigantic cave at Casiny Crater A.  On November
20, 1966, American Orbit 2 Exploration Spaceship photographed several
pyramid-like structures from 46 km above the Tranquility Sea.  Scientists
estimated that the pyramids are 15 to 25 metres high and that they are also
geometrically positioned.  The structures are lighter in colour than the
rocks and soil around them and they are obviously not natural objects.

      On September 11, 1967, the Montelow Team of astronomers discovered a
"black cloud with purple borders" over the Tranquility Sea.  The strange
phenomena were not observed by laypeople, but by astronomers and spaceship
probes.  This means that the moon does have many mysteries unknown to
human beings.

UFO over the Moon

      On November 24, 1968, Apollo 8, while investigating future landing
spots, encountered a colossal floating object that occupied several square
miles.  When Apollo 8 came back to the same spot from its orbital lap
around the moon, the object was no longer there.  What was it?  No one
knows. Apollo 10, while at 50,000 feet above the moon, was approached by an
unidentified flying object.  This encounter was documented on film.  On
July 19, 1969, Apollo 11 carried three astronauts to the moon who later
became the first men on the moon.  En route to the moon, the astronauts saw
an unusual object in front of them.  Viewing at a distance of about 6,000
miles, they initially thought that it must be the rocket propeller from the
Apollo 4.  Looking through binoculars, they found that the object was
L-shaped.  "It looked like an opened briefcase," said Armstrong.  Looking
further through a sextant, they found the object looked like a cylinder.
Another astronaut, Aldrin, said, "We also saw several smaller objects
passing by, causing turbulence to our ship, then we saw this brighter
object flying by."  On July 21, when Aldrin entered the Landing Capsule for
final check-up, he suddenly saw two floating objects.  One of them was
bigger and brighter, flying at high speed in parallel to the spaceship's
front, which shortly disappeared.  It reemerged a few seconds later.  At
that moment the two objects shot out two light beams that joined together.
Then they suddenly separated from each other, ascended rapidly and
disappeared.

      When the astronauts were about to land on the moon, they heard the
voice from Control Center, "Control Center calling Apollo 11, what are they
out there?"  Apollo 11 answered, "These babes are humongous, Sir . . . a
lot of them . . .Oh, my God, you won't believe it.  Let me tell you there
are other spaceships there . . . by the edge of the circular craters, and
they are well positioned . . . and they are watching us from the moon . .
.." Russian scientist Dr. Arched said, "According to our intercepted
signals, the encounter with floating objects as the Apollo 11 landed was
immediately reported."  On November 20, 1969, astronauts Conrad and Brian
of Apollo 12 observed floating objects when they landed on the moon.
Astronauts landing on the moon from Apollo 15 in August 1971, Apollo 16 in
April 1972, and Apollo 17 in December 1972 also encountered the floating
objects.

      Gary, a scientist, once said, "Almost all the astronauts have seen
some unidentified flying objects."  Edwards, the sixth astronaut to land on
the moon, said, "The only question is where they came from."  John Younger,
the ninth astronaut on the moon, said, "If you don't believe it, it is like
you don't believe in a sure thing."  In 1979, former NASA Director of
Communication Molly Chertlin stated that "encountering the floating
objects" is very common.  She went on, "All the spaceships have been
followed by some floating objects either at a distance or very closely.
Whenever it happens, the astronauts would contact our mission center."

      Years later, Armstrong revealed, "It is incredible . . . We were all
warned that there are for sure cities or spaceships on the moon . . . I can
only say that their spaceships are much superior and they are huge . . .."
Thousands of the lunar mystical phenomena, such as the mysterious
lightning, white and black clouds, structures, floating objects and so on,
are all facts observed by astronomers and scientists.  They are yet to be
explained as to what they are.

The Moon is a Hollow Spaceship

      In 1970, Russian scientists Alexander Scherbakov and Mihkai Vasin
proposed a shocking Spaceship Moon hypothesis to explain the origin of the
moon.  They believe that the moon is in fact not a natural satellite of the
earth, but a spaceship created by intelligent beings that modified and
reshaped a planet.  There are a lot documents regarding their civilization
stored inside the moon, which was intentionally placed above the earth.
All of the discoveries of the moon are in fact the outstanding work of the
intelligent beings that live inside of it.  Of course, the scientific
community is scornful of the theory, because they have not captured any ET
yet.  Nonetheless, it is undeniable that the moon has been shown to be
hollow by data gathered so far.

      What perplexes scientists the most is the data gathered from the
instruments left on the moon which measure the quake activities of the
moon's crust.  The data indicates that the quake waves spread from the
epicenter along the surface of the moon only, but not into the center of
the moon.  This shows that the moon is hollow and it is nothing but a
crust. If it was a solid planet, the quake waves should also propagate
toward the center.  How could they only go along the surface?

Reconstruct New Theories About the Moon

      Let's construct a new theory about the moon.  It is hollow and has
two layers of crust.  The outer crust consists of rocks and mineral ores.
Meteorites can only hit through this crust.  The known craters are no
deeper than four miles.  Thus, this outer crust is at most five miles
thick.  The inner crust is a hard, artificial alloy shell of unknown
thickness-probably several miles.  Its metal elements include iron,
titanium, chromium, and others that resist high temperatures, high pressure
and corrosion.  It
is an alloy unknown on earth.

      The moonquake data indicates that moonquake waves propagate along the
moon's surface but not towards its center.  This means that the moon only
has two layers of crust.  Thus the moon must be artificial, rather than
naturally formed.  Intelligent beings must have conducted accurate
calculations to transport the moon from their star system to the solar
system and to position it where it is in order to provide light to the
earth at night.  In conclusion, none of the three traditional theories of
the
origin of the moon is correct.

      The beings that constructed the moon allow only one side of the moon
to face the earth because there are many observation devices on the earth.
They themselves live inside the moon closer to the back.  Because the
surface temperature of the moon varies from 127( C at noon to -183( C at
night, the inhabitants live inside the moon.

      The moon-making beings have invented flying saucers and they often
fly out to do research, maintain their surface devices, or to watch the
earthlings' activities.  They are thus sometimes seen by astronauts from
earth or observed by telescopes on earth.  We don't yet know what kind of
aliens they are or how long they have been there.  Perhaps before long,
earthlings will find out the truth about the moon.

      We have constructed this theory to explain the origin and structure
of the moon by using the lunar phenomena that cannot be explained by
traditional science.  This theory perfectly solves each and every mystery
surrounding the moon.  Who would argue that our approach is non-scientific?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 21 20:17:58 2000
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From: "Fred Epps" <fepps quidnunc.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Is the moon hollow?
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:15:57 -0700
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Hi Mitchell,

Over the years I've posted on this topic a number of times. Yes, the
evidence that the Moon is "hollow" is quite strong, and much more extensive
than that given here. The authors of this article do not give the primary
sources for their theories, two books by Don Wilson. The titles are "Our
Mysterious Spaceship Moon" and "Secrets Of Our Spaceship Moon", both rare
now (I've been looking for a copy of "Secrets" for four years). These are
well written and go into far more detail on the subject. A recent book,
"Alien Agenda" by Bill Marrs, an excellent investigative journalist, devotes
its first chapter to the very solid evidence for this seemingly bizarre
idea. It is a fact that the theory of the hollow moon was seriously
discussed inside of NASA at the time of the moonquake experiments.

BTW, NASA had a project called "Moonblink" starting in the first IGY that
recorded several hundred lunar anomalies, including unexplained lights,
volcanic eruptions, gas clouds, moving objects on the surface, etc.

Regards,
Fred


>Moon, Where Are You From?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 22 08:19:29 2000
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To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Silicon valley R&D venture destroyed by excessive secrecy
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A $100 million R&D effort went down the tubes recently. Industry experts
blame the failure on excessive secrecy. This is the same story I have been
talking about regarding BLP, CETI, Toyota and other CF researchers.

See:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/04/biztech/articles/22lab.html

New York Times, April 22, 2000
A Silicon Valley Laboratory Shuts Down

Quotes:

ALO ALTO, Calif., April 21 -- An ambitious Silicon Valley effort to create
computer industry breakthroughs ended in failure today when the Web site of
the Interval Research Corporation was replaced with a stark press release
stating that its co-founder, Paul G. Allen, had closed the advanced
computer laboratory after eight years. 

. . .

The Interval Research laboratory, which at one point had swelled to employ
as many as 150, was formed with the intent to spin off business enterprises. 

To date, the spin-off model has largely failed, with no dramatic successes
having come from the years of research. 

. . .

Interval Research was known in Silicon Valley for its obsession with
secrecy, and analysts said that also worked against the research group. 

"They were done in by secrecy, which isolated them," said Paul Saffo, an
industry consultant at the Institute for the Future. "But this is great
news for the Valley; a lot of big brains are now on the loose." [He means
available for employment elsewhere.]

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 22 10:18:38 2000
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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Is the moon hollow?
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>Hi Mitchell,
>
>Over the years I've posted on this topic a number of times. Yes, the
>evidence that the Moon is "hollow" is quite strong, and much more extensive
>than that given here. The authors of this article do not give the primary
>sources for their theories, two books by Don Wilson. The titles are "Our
>Mysterious Spaceship Moon" and "Secrets Of Our Spaceship Moon", both rare
>now (I've been looking for a copy of "Secrets" for four years). These are
>well written and go into far more detail on the subject. A recent book,
>"Alien Agenda" by Bill Marrs, an excellent investigative journalist, devotes
>its first chapter to the very solid evidence for this seemingly bizarre
>idea. It is a fact that the theory of the hollow moon was seriously
>discussed inside of NASA at the time of the moonquake experiments.
>
>BTW, NASA had a project called "Moonblink" starting in the first IGY that
>recorded several hundred lunar anomalies, including unexplained lights,
>volcanic eruptions, gas clouds, moving objects on the surface, etc.
>
>Regards,
>Fred

***{Hi, Fred. While I try to read lots of off-the-wall stuff to guard
against any latent conformist tendencies, I must admit that the notion that
the moon is hollow strikes me as beyond the Pale. There are lots of reasons
for that reaction, not the least of which is that the mass of the moon is
easily calculated using observational data and the principles of celestial
mechanics. That means if we assume the moon is hollow, we do not have the
luxury of reducing the known mass, which is a hard fact that must simply be
accepted. Thus we must assume that the entire mass of the Moon is packed
into its thin outer shell, giving the material in that shell a density
which is many orders of magnitude higher than any known material which
could exist under such conditions. Result: the hollow Moon hypothesis
becomes untenable, in my opinion. --MJ}***

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Well, Mitchell, wouldn't your objection depend on the thickness of the shell.  A
collection of caverns and tunnels sufficient to house many thousands of beings
would certainly not be noticed in the calculated density of the Moon.  In fact,
if I had the technology to make such a structure, I would use a small moon as
the starting point, apply a strong metal shell to protect the inside from
meteors, and coat the outside with rock rubble to absorb the energy.  The
inhabited part would only occupy a small fraction of the rock interior.
Presumably, moving this structure to the earth would be easy for a technology
that could make the structure in the first place.  Of course, one might ask why
a society would go to such trouble when the earth is so handy.

Ed Storms

Mitchell Jones wrote:

> >Hi Mitchell,
> >
> >Over the years I've posted on this topic a number of times. Yes, the
> >evidence that the Moon is "hollow" is quite strong, and much more extensive
> >than that given here. The authors of this article do not give the primary
> >sources for their theories, two books by Don Wilson. The titles are "Our
> >Mysterious Spaceship Moon" and "Secrets Of Our Spaceship Moon", both rare
> >now (I've been looking for a copy of "Secrets" for four years). These are
> >well written and go into far more detail on the subject. A recent book,
> >"Alien Agenda" by Bill Marrs, an excellent investigative journalist, devotes
> >its first chapter to the very solid evidence for this seemingly bizarre
> >idea. It is a fact that the theory of the hollow moon was seriously
> >discussed inside of NASA at the time of the moonquake experiments.
> >
> >BTW, NASA had a project called "Moonblink" starting in the first IGY that
> >recorded several hundred lunar anomalies, including unexplained lights,
> >volcanic eruptions, gas clouds, moving objects on the surface, etc.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Fred
>
> ***{Hi, Fred. While I try to read lots of off-the-wall stuff to guard
> against any latent conformist tendencies, I must admit that the notion that
> the moon is hollow strikes me as beyond the Pale. There are lots of reasons
> for that reaction, not the least of which is that the mass of the moon is
> easily calculated using observational data and the principles of celestial
> mechanics. That means if we assume the moon is hollow, we do not have the
> luxury of reducing the known mass, which is a hard fact that must simply be
> accepted. Thus we must assume that the entire mass of the Moon is packed
> into its thin outer shell, giving the material in that shell a density
> which is many orders of magnitude higher than any known material which
> could exist under such conditions. Result: the hollow Moon hypothesis
> becomes untenable, in my opinion. --MJ}***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 22 12:00:20 2000
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Hi Mitchell,

Actually, the mass/density relationship is one of the major rationales for
thinking that it is hollow (actually, filled with something other than
rock).
According to the books-- and I have not calculated this myself, so I can't
personally validate it-- the density of the Moon as calculated from mass and
volume is very low, about half that of the earth's. According to one source,
the moon would float in the ocean. Also, the upper crust of the moon does
appear to be made of very dense materials, glasses containing high amounts
of titanium and other refractory materials in the 'seas', for instance.
If the density of the surface layers was extended through the whole moon, it
would be much more massive than it is. Thus the inner moon must be lighter
than the outer--which is in itself anomalous.

The article you quoted only scratches the surface of lunar anomalies. Taken
individually, they can be explained (rationalized) through various different
mechanisms, but taken together they point in only one direction, however
off-the-wall that might be considered.

Regards,
Fred

>***{Hi, Fred. While I try to read lots of off-the-wall stuff to guard
>against any latent conformist tendencies, I must admit that the notion that
>the moon is hollow strikes me as beyond the Pale. There are lots of reasons
>for that reaction, not the least of which is that the mass of the moon is
>easily calculated using observational data and the principles of celestial
>mechanics. That means if we assume the moon is hollow, we do not have the
>luxury of reducing the known mass, which is a hard fact that must simply be
>accepted. Thus we must assume that the entire mass of the Moon is packed
>into its thin outer shell, giving the material in that shell a density
>which is many orders of magnitude higher than any known material which
>could exist under such conditions. Result: the hollow Moon hypothesis
>becomes untenable, in my opinion. --MJ}***
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 22 13:09:19 2000
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Hi Mitchell, Edmund, and all,

>From an astronomical website I learn that:

>From the rock samples that astronauts have collected we know that the
average density of the Moon is about 3 times that of water. Comparing this
number to the average density of Earth, which is more like 5 times the
density of water, we conclude that the Moon is made up of mostly lighter
materials than Earth. This suggests that the Moon is missing an iron rich
core like that of Earth's.


>Well, Mitchell, wouldn't your objection depend on the thickness of the
shell.  A
>collection of caverns and tunnels sufficient to house many thousands of
beings
>would certainly not be noticed in the calculated density of the Moon.  In
fact,
>if I had the technology to make such a structure, I would use a small moon
as
>the starting point, apply a strong metal shell to protect the inside from
>meteors, and coat the outside with rock rubble to absorb the energy.  The
>inhabited part would only occupy a small fraction of the rock interior.
>Presumably, moving this structure to the earth would be easy for a
technology
>that could make the structure in the first place.  Of course, one might ask
why
>a society would go to such trouble when the earth is so handy.

If we were their experiment. The scientist doesn't live in the cage with the
rats.

Regards,
Fred

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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Is the moon hollow?
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>Well, Mitchell, wouldn't your objection depend on the thickness of the
>shell.  A
>collection of caverns and tunnels sufficient to house many thousands of beings
>would certainly not be noticed in the calculated density of the Moon.  In
>fact,
>if I had the technology to make such a structure, I would use a small moon as
>the starting point, apply a strong metal shell to protect the inside from
>meteors, and coat the outside with rock rubble to absorb the energy.  The
>inhabited part would only occupy a small fraction of the rock interior.

***{Sure, that would work. But I was taking the "hollow moon theory" pretty
literally. That is, I was imagining something with a thin outer shell that
was mostly empty on the inside, such as a gigantic, spherical space ship.
Your idea sounds similar to the concept employed by L. Neil Smith in his SF
novel *Pallas*--which was a hell of a good read, by the way. (Pallas is the
third largest body in the asteroid belt.) You might check it out if you are
an SF aficionado. --MJ}***

>Presumably, moving this structure to the earth would be easy for a technology
>that could make the structure in the first place.  Of course, one might
>ask why
>a society would go to such trouble when the earth is so handy.

***{Perhaps they are a species that evolved under conditions of lower
gravity. Another possibility would be that they consider the Earth to be a
pesthole swarming with deadly microbes. Perhaps they prefer that their
bodies not be under continuous assault by hostile microrganisms from birth
to death. (I have often wondered what the human lifespan would be under
less septic conditions--a very lot longer, I suspect. --MJ}***

>
>Ed Storms

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 23 07:28:56 2000
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Mitchell Jones wrote:

> >Well, Mitchell, wouldn't your objection depend on the thickness of the
> >shell.  A
> >collection of caverns and tunnels sufficient to house many thousands of beings
> >would certainly not be noticed in the calculated density of the Moon.  In
> >fact,
> >if I had the technology to make such a structure, I would use a small moon as
> >the starting point, apply a strong metal shell to protect the inside from
> >meteors, and coat the outside with rock rubble to absorb the energy.  The
> >inhabited part would only occupy a small fraction of the rock interior.
>
> ***{Sure, that would work. But I was taking the "hollow moon theory" pretty
> literally. That is, I was imagining something with a thin outer shell that
> was mostly empty on the inside, such as a gigantic, spherical space ship.
> Your idea sounds similar to the concept employed by L. Neil Smith in his SF
> novel *Pallas*--which was a hell of a good read, by the way. (Pallas is the
> third largest body in the asteroid belt.) You might check it out if you are
> an SF aficionado. --MJ}***

Thanks for the suggestion, I love SF.  Right now I'm reading "Return of the
Phoenix" by Mandeville and trying to decide whether this is SF or reality.  He
certainly makes a good case for a very unpleasant event about to happen to us
all.  As is the case with much of what is discussed on Vortex, the problem is to
separate faction from fiction, imagination from reality.  At least reading SF has
the advantage of providing entertainment without the responsibility of such
important judgments.

>
> >Presumably, moving this structure to the earth would be easy for a technology
> >that could make the structure in the first place.  Of course, one might
> >ask why
> >a society would go to such trouble when the earth is so handy.
>
> ***{Perhaps they are a species that evolved under conditions of lower
> gravity. Another possibility would be that they consider the Earth to be a
> pesthole swarming with deadly microbes. Perhaps they prefer that their
> bodies not be under continuous assault by hostile microrganisms from birth
> to death. (I have often wondered what the human lifespan would be under
> less septic conditions--a very lot longer, I suspect. --MJ}***

Well, the lifespan might be a lot longer for awhile.  I share the opinion of
Darwin that these pests prune out the weak and make later generations stronger.
If one believes in reincarnation, this is good because each succeeding body would
be potentially stronger than the last.  Of course, with the temperament of our
fellow creatures, microbes would seem to be the least of our worries.

Ed Storms


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Apr 23 09:51:48 2000
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Ed Storms wrote:

... I share the opinion of Darwin that these pests prune
out the weak and make later generations stronger.

Jack Smith writes:

Natural selection is a chancy thing -- lots of strange
accidents, twists of fate, and logical roads not taken.
(Will drooling idiots be those who end up with a natural
immunity to AIDS?)

It's not to the advantage of microbes to destroy their hosts;
but how smart are the microbes? 

One explanation for the disappearance of the dinosaurs is that
the coming together of all the continents into Pangea caused
terminal epidemics, and that the proposed asteroid 65 million years ago
just helped bury the corpses.

Although the Indian women looked good to Columbus' sailors,
some of the adventurers had to be carried off the ships
on return to Barcelona.  Within 6 months the "Spanish pox"
had reached Marsailles; and within a year the "French pox"
had crossed the Channel.  An Italian poet speculating on the origin
of the disease named it by describing the sexual adventures of the
shepherd Syphillis.  (The Europeans returned the favor with smallpox.)

At first the loathesome sores, hair loss, and fatigue made the
disease obvious (hence high collars, long sleeves, wigs, and
heavy face makeup); but as time went on, (with trillions of 
spirochetes in any one individual dividing every every 30 seconds)
natural selection made host life more bearable -- women could still
be attractive and carry the disease.  Fashions lightened up.

The ease of modern transportation has made our divided continents
into another Pangea.  Can the microbes adapt fast enough to still
enjoy a good meal and yet keep us alive?  I personally know people
who are positive with an experimental, direct test for the Lyme
spirochete, but who have no symptoms.  Since the test is not accepted
by the medical community, should they still give blood?  What about
those who have no clue that they may have the disease?

>From the SF view, wouldn't it be to the advantage of the microbes
to give their hosts an edge, perhaps by improving host
intelligence? -- nothing like a well-fed host.  Look at Beethoven,
born with congenital syphillis.  (Comparing syphillis and smallpox,
it seems that spirochetes are more concerned about their hosts
than viruses.  In fact, AIDS seems to more virulent than ever.)

Ed Storms wrote:

... Of course, with the temperament of our fellow
creatures, microbes would seem to be the least of our worries.

Hi Ed and Mitchell,

Given "the temperament of our fellow creatures,"  I think that
we should be MOST concerned about microbes.  Biological warfare
has everything going for it under current conditions, especially
the Maginot-line mentality of our political and military leaders.
Biological (and EMP) weapons will probably play a large role in
the next world war (2005?).

Jack Smith


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Joyful Jack writes:
>Given "the temperament of our fellow creatures,"  I think that
>we should be MOST concerned about microbes.  Biological warfare
>has everything going for it under current conditions, especially
>the Maginot-line mentality of our political and military leaders.
>Biological (and EMP) weapons will probably play a large role in
>the next world war (2005?).
>
>Jack Smith

You forgot deadly enzymes like prions which, of course, have even less of a
mentality than a presidential candidate... I think.

Happy Easter!

Knuke

Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 24 09:07:58 2000
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All,

Another SF book series based on the premise of the moon not being natural:

David Weber's
Mutineer's Moon,
The Armageddon Inheritance &
Heirs of Empire

Basically it starts out with the ship coming to earth looking for a lost human 
colony.  There is a mutiny, caused in part by problems back home, and the ship 
won't let them come back up.  So they are stuck on earth causing all kinds of 
mischief for the next several thousand years...

Bill
webriggs concentric.net
Briggs XLNsystems.com


>Your idea sounds similar to the concept employed by L. Neil Smith in his SF
>novel *Pallas*--which was a hell of a good read, by the way. (Pallas is the
>third largest body in the asteroid belt.) You might check it out if you are
>an SF aficionado. --MJ}***

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 24 09:30:34 2000
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Is the moon hollow?
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>Mitchell Jones wrote:
>
>> >Well, Mitchell, wouldn't your objection depend on the thickness of the
>> >shell.  A
>> >collection of caverns and tunnels sufficient to house many thousands of
>>beings
>> >would certainly not be noticed in the calculated density of the Moon.  In
>> >fact,
>> >if I had the technology to make such a structure, I would use a small
>>moon as
>> >the starting point, apply a strong metal shell to protect the inside from
>> >meteors, and coat the outside with rock rubble to absorb the energy.  The
>> >inhabited part would only occupy a small fraction of the rock interior.
>>
>> ***{Sure, that would work. But I was taking the "hollow moon theory" pretty
>> literally. That is, I was imagining something with a thin outer shell that
>> was mostly empty on the inside, such as a gigantic, spherical space ship.
>> Your idea sounds similar to the concept employed by L. Neil Smith in his SF
>> novel *Pallas*--which was a hell of a good read, by the way. (Pallas is the
>> third largest body in the asteroid belt.) You might check it out if you are
>> an SF aficionado. --MJ}***
>
>Thanks for the suggestion, I love SF.  Right now I'm reading "Return of the
>Phoenix" by Mandeville and trying to decide whether this is SF or reality.  He
>certainly makes a good case for a very unpleasant event about to happen to us
>all.  As is the case with much of what is discussed on Vortex, the problem
>is to
>separate faction from fiction, imagination from reality.  At least reading
>SF has
>the advantage of providing entertainment without the responsibility of such
>important judgments.
>
>>
>> >Presumably, moving this structure to the earth would be easy for a
>>technology
>> >that could make the structure in the first place.  Of course, one might
>> >ask why
>> >a society would go to such trouble when the earth is so handy.
>>
>> ***{Perhaps they are a species that evolved under conditions of lower
>> gravity. Another possibility would be that they consider the Earth to be a
>> pesthole swarming with deadly microbes. Perhaps they prefer that their
>> bodies not be under continuous assault by hostile microrganisms from birth
>> to death. (I have often wondered what the human lifespan would be under
>> less septic conditions--a very lot longer, I suspect. --MJ}***
>
>Well, the lifespan might be a lot longer for awhile.  I share the opinion of
>Darwin that these pests prune out the weak and make later generations
>stronger.

***{In a free society, property rights are protected, and that which exists
falls into two classifications: persons, and property. Within such a
framework, there is obviously an interval of time between conception and
the attainment of personhood. During that interval, the embryo, fetus, or
whatever, is the property of its mother, or, if she has made a contractual
arrangement to that effect, the father has joint ownership. During that
stage, the mother or the parents have the right to terminate development,
if they so choose. As a consequence, in a free society there will be a
demand for services that enable parents to decide whether the developmental
process should or should not be permitted to continue until the stage of
personhood is reached. Here, science enters the picture, in the form of
various laboratory procedures, including genetic testing, which would
permit the prospective parents to identify defects and make a reasoned
decision about whether they want raise a child with those characteristics.
If they decide in the negative, the developmental process will be
terminated.

Within the context of a free society, science would progress very rapidly,
and tests would be developed that permitted the detection of, for example,
a deficient immune system, long before personhood was attained. There would
be no need to actually produce a person with those characteristics in order
to determine whether he would live a short and miserable life due to the
assaults of invading microbes. Instead, if tests suggested that would be
the outcome, the parents would simply interupt that developmental process
and try again, until they succeeded in producing a sound and healthy child.
In such a society, the kinds of horror stories that surround us today would
not exist: we would not routinely see families, their finances continually
drained by medical procedures needed to prolong the misery of defective
children--families which, due to those expenses, are prevented from having
healthy children. And, to return to your point, we would have no need for
the armies of hostile microbes in which we are immersed, because science
would be permitted to achieve the culling effect of those microbes, without
the human suffering which they cause.

In other words, Darwinian survival of the fittest is a fact, and it has the
effect that you mentioned. However, an advanced species that values human
freedom can, through science, achieve the beneficial effects of natural
selection while avoiding the shortcomings. If such a society existed in
space, under far less septic conditions than exist on the pesthole which we
call Earth, I would expect a vast increase in the average lifespan, due to
nothing more than the absence of the damage that the microbes would
otherwise inflict, while the body struggled to fend them off.

In the disgusting fascist societies in which we are all trapped, of course,
property rights are *not* respected, and in the present context there are
two consequences worth noting:

(1) Scientific progress is much slower than it would be under freedom, and,
because of that, we remain trapped on pesthole Earth, where our lifespans
are greatly shortened by our ongoing war with invading microbes.

2) Parents must obtain the permission of the state before they can
terminate developmental processes prior to personhood. In such intrusive
and authoritarian societies, a simple and private decision about whether to
produce a child becomes akin to Russian roulette: would-be parents are
forced to roll the genetic dice, and if they come up the wrong way, their
lives are wrecked.

--Mitchell Jones}***

>If one believes in reincarnation, this is good because each succeeding
>body would
>be potentially stronger than the last.

***{Reincarnation arises as a logical possibility because each human being
knows for a fact that, at some time in the past, his memories began. Hence
it appears that there was a time when he did not exist, and then, because
some particular physical situation arose, his came into existence. The
implication: those conditions may have been satisfied in the distant past,
prior to his birth, which means he may have lived prior lives; and if,
after the end of this life, those conditions are satisfied again, he will
exist again. Whether such a speculation is valid, of course, depends on the
specific nature of the conditions in question, and whether, even in
principle, they could ever arise more than once. If we consider, for
example, that the individual is defined by the specific DNA in his genome,
it is clear that a person could arise more than once. Unfortunately, if it
were that simple, then twins would be the same person. Since we know they
are not, we can conclude that the conditions which had to be satisfied to
bring a specific individual--a specific stream of consciousness--into
existence, involve more than DNA.

In addition, there is the question of whether we remain, at the end of
life, the same person we were at the beginning of life. If we do, then even
if we come into existence over and over again, we will always be, at the
beginning of life, the same ignorant creature we were at the beginning of
all of our other lives. In that case, the whole enterprise seems quite
pointless: whatever we learned in our prior lives would, in no sense, be
available to us in the next one.

Here is a possibility I have considered, which seems to get around both
difficulties: what if the subconscious mind contains, at birth, the
intuitive understandings that one acquired, by experience and thought, in
one's prior life? In other words, what if personhood begins when the
subconscious has been loaded with  information that matches the data that
were present in one's subconscious at the end of one's previous life?

Let me elaborate a bit.

Most educated people have noticed that, after immersing oneself deeply in a
subject, one subsequently, with the passage of years, loses direct
conscious access to the material. If, for example, you spend days
struggling with a difficult calculus problem and come up with an elegant
solution, you will at that moment hold in your conscious mind a vast array
of relationships, and will be able to discuss all the intricate details
that define the problem and support the validity of your solution. But if
you stop thinking about that problem and spend, say, ten years thinking
about other things, you will lose conscious access to that array of
relationships, and you will no longer be able to deliver an impromptu
lecture on that topic off the top of your head. In spite of that, however,
something remains, because you will feel comfortable tackling problems of
that type in the future, and you will have an intuitive feel for how to
approach them. Because of your subconsciously held understanding, you will
be able to solve new problems of that type much more quickly than was the
case before you acquired that understanding.

If the subconscious mind is not tabula rasa (a "blank slate") when
personhood begins, but instead is filled with potentially useful material
of the sort that we acquire from experience and problem solving, then the
potential arises that continuity of consciousness might be established with
a person who lived and died in the past, when the subconscious content of a
developing child's brain comes to match the subconscious content that some
person's brain possessed at death at some point in the past. In this case,
the link would be to what one was at the end of one's life, rather than to
what one was at the beginning, and thus the important part of one's
acquired knowledge would be retained. At birth, one would have no conscious
memories, but one would have subconscious material that connected back to a
another person in a previous life.

All the above, of course, is merely speculation. It is a subject I have
thought about a lot, without reaching any firm conclusions. Result: I am an
agnostic concerning the possibility of reincarnation.

--Mitchell Jones}***

Of course, with the temperament of our
>fellow creatures, microbes would seem to be the least of our worries.
>
>Ed Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 24 16:00:33 2000
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	Ed,

	I will never ignore you!


On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Ed Wall wrote:

> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Apr 24 16:18:12 2000
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Of course not, John.  I know you're not ignorant!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: Vortex <vortex-l mail.eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: Test message -- ignore


> 
> Ed,
> 
> I will never ignore you!
> 
> 
> On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Ed Wall wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 25 12:59:46 2000
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Subject: Village Voice -- latest on USPTO-Park-Zimmerman scandal
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:00:14 -0000
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From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
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All,

The Village Voice has another article about BlackLight Power and Mills in 
its current issue (April 26-May 2, 2000).  The full text of the article 
is now on the Village Voice www site under "The Empire Strikes Back." 

http//www.villagevoice.com/issues/0017/baard.shtml

It reports that the USPTO apparently caved in to the rantings of Park and 
Zimmerman et al after the first BLP patent (6,024,935) was issued on Feb 
15, 2000.  The USPTO pulled a second patent from BlackLight that was 
about to be issued. Other misdeeds are listed, too numerous to mention.  

Gene

Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
Infinite Energy Magazine
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
P.O. Box 2816
Concord, NH 03302-2816

Ph:  603-228-4516
Fax: 603-224-5975

editor infinite-energy.com
www.infinite-energy.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 25 13:59:45 2000
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Village Voice -- latest on USPTO-Park-Zimmerman scandal
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Eugene F. Mallove wrote:

>http//www.villagevoice.com/issues/0017/baard.shtml
^^^^^

That doesn't work without the colon. Try it like this:

www.villagevoice.com/issues/0017/baard.shtml


Quote from article:

	Mills says he's going to back up his filings with the patent office
	with more than 40 reports and publications, and he may request that
	the National Institute of Science and Technology test his prototype
	technologies.

Great! Why didn't he do something like that years ago? If NIST wouldn't
look at it, other major organizations would. Why not have 10, or 20, or
2,000 major institutes look at it? Now that he has a patent pending, he has
nothing to lose.


	Mills has his own battles to wage. "We intend to fight this all the way
	to the Supreme Court," he says, "and enlist whatever resources it takes
	in Congress and industry to rightfully win this."

It wouldn't take any resources, and he could win the whole battle in a
month or two, if he would only open and demonstrate like any businessman
would do.

Comments like this drive me crazy. Mills is standing there with a giant
"KICK ME" sign on his butt. When Park and Zimmerman clobber him, instead of
responding effectively, he complains! What does he expect they will do?
What have they done for nine years? It will keep happening until he takes
effective steps to stop it once and for all.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 25 16:36:02 2000
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To: VORTEX <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Zimmerman Re: Village Voice -- latest on USPTO-Park-Zimmerman scandal
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	Dear EM.,

	Is the Zimmerman cited the same Zimmerman who did work about 12 or
so years ago on using magnetostriction of Nickle plated Optical Fiber to
det Micro Pulsations of the Earth's Magnetic Field   pub  Int'l Confr.
Biomagnetometry Neuromagnetometry?

	See... I still keep my hand in on the tiny field stuff... once it
is in your blood... it is like Rodeo.

On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Eugene F. Mallove wrote:

> All,
> 
> The Village Voice has another article about BlackLight Power and Mills in 
> its current issue (April 26-May 2, 2000).  The full text of the article 
> is now on the Village Voice www site under "The Empire Strikes Back." 
> 
> http//www.villagevoice.com/issues/0017/baard.shtml
> 
> It reports that the USPTO apparently caved in to the rantings of Park and 
> Zimmerman et al after the first BLP patent (6,024,935) was issued on Feb 
> 15, 2000.  The USPTO pulled a second patent from BlackLight that was 
> about to be issued. Other misdeeds are listed, too numerous to mention.  
> 
> Gene
> 
> Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
> Infinite Energy Magazine
> Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
> P.O. Box 2816
> Concord, NH 03302-2816
> 
> Ph:  603-228-4516
> Fax: 603-224-5975
> 
> editor infinite-energy.com
> www.infinite-energy.com
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 25 18:53:51 2000
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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: Village Voice -- latest on USPTO-Park-Zimmerman scandal
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:59:48 -0400
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Dr. Gene writes:

>It reports that the USPTO apparently caved in to the rantings of Park and 
>Zimmerman et al after the first BLP patent (6,024,935) was issued on Feb 
>15, 2000.  The USPTO pulled a second patent from BlackLight that was 
>about to be issued. Other misdeeds are listed, too numerous to mention.  
>
>Gene

Wow, what a hornet's nest!  Mills is right on target of course, about the
established physics community being business competitors with an enormous
amount to lose, but is he right about the science?  I wouldn't care too much
if even the science itself were erroneously based if an actual heater,
superbattery or electrical generator was produced that left no doubt in
anyone's mind that there was an excess amount of energy being released, but
Mills has yet to design any real-life product that can be be bought and
used.  Cells, compounds, reports and theories are nice, but if he focused on
delivering the heater hardware, or the superbattery, or the electrical
generator there wouldn't be much that his critics/competitors could do...
except, maybe look for new jobs.

What bothers me is that he just hasn't done this, and he has had the money,
time, and engineering expertise available to him do it.  If he is worried
about protecting his intellectual property, then he should just forget about
it.  He can't.  If he wants to help mankind, then he should just be applying
himself to making real hardware available for sale.  If the stuff works,
then people will line up to buy it.  His educational, promotional, legal,
and business efforts aren't worth a dime without a real product.  He can
explain the whole universe with coloring books, cartoons and big, fuzzy
puppets for all that it is worth, but if the hardware doesn't work, and
there is no product, then the whole thing is just a waste of time.

Knuke
Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 25 20:29:44 2000
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I agree, he has had the time and the money, you Cold Fusion guys have too.  
You want to make bubble's, make 'em a lot easier the way a kid does, blowing 
bubbles in his milk.  Get's that milk a boiling.  Harness that reverse pull 
of gravity pulling the more dense fluid beneath the less dense bubble, you 
got yourself some ZPE.  Not much but a little.  Should be enough to measure. 
  Probably not enough to make it a practicle.

To get energy you need mass.  Energy is not coming out of thin air.  Gravity 
is "The Origin of Energy".  Thermodynamic laws do not conserve energy.  That 
is where science is off beat.  That is why there is ZPE, energy at absolute 
zero, in the absense of heat.

It is Whirlpower's turn now.  It has not been tested fully yet.  No money 
has been spent.  And the information has been freely given to all in public 
domain for over three years now.  How long will it be ignored?  Everyone 
else is trying to get their greedy little hands around the energy revolution 
and own it.  Ain't gonna happen.

We are just about there.  Callum Coats and Martin Selecki have announced, 
now, for the record, for the first time in public domain, Whirlpower is 
under construction in Australia, and is being filmed for a new documentary 
comparing tornado type vortex science going back to Schauberger and my new 
Whirlpower hurricane type vortex concept.  And we now have data that takes 
the tornado type vortex all the way back to Egypt and the pyramids.  They 
failed too.  And that narcissistic, pompous, man is God type attitude, left 
their civilization in ruins, as it will ours, if we do not turn our hearts 
back to the One True God.

Whirlpower is unique.  Whirlpower is "The Holy Grail".  Whirlpower is a 
hurricane type vortex, a compound vortex, never before made by man and 
tested in a scientific manner in all recorded histroy.  The Whirlpower Team 
has built the first natural whirlpools ever in recorded history and has been 
announcing this achievement now for a very long time on many lists.  Many 
just go into cat calls, curses, and hissy fits and throw me off.  Any can 
see the first known photo a whirlpool on my new splash page.  Note the dual 
radial arm pattern, just like a hurricane, just like a spiral galaxy.

Dr. Yasmin Walter, German theoretical astrophysicist, has recently joined 
the Whirlpower Team in accord, Whirlpower Cosmology, "The Rose", as posted 
on my list is very likely the long sought TOE.

But please, do not comment, please, ignore this message.

David Dennard
The Phoenix
http://www.whirlpower.cc


>From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: Village Voice -- latest on USPTO-Park-Zimmerman scandal
>Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:59:48 -0400
>
>Dr. Gene writes:
>
> >It reports that the USPTO apparently caved in to the rantings of Park and
> >Zimmerman et al after the first BLP patent (6,024,935) was issued on Feb
> >15, 2000.  The USPTO pulled a second patent from BlackLight that was
> >about to be issued. Other misdeeds are listed, too numerous to mention.
> >
> >Gene
>
>Wow, what a hornet's nest!  Mills is right on target of course, about the
>established physics community being business competitors with an enormous
>amount to lose, but is he right about the science?  I wouldn't care too 
>much
>if even the science itself were erroneously based if an actual heater,
>superbattery or electrical generator was produced that left no doubt in
>anyone's mind that there was an excess amount of energy being released, but
>Mills has yet to design any real-life product that can be be bought and
>used.  Cells, compounds, reports and theories are nice, but if he focused 
>on
>delivering the heater hardware, or the superbattery, or the electrical
>generator there wouldn't be much that his critics/competitors could do...
>except, maybe look for new jobs.
>
>What bothers me is that he just hasn't done this, and he has had the money,
>time, and engineering expertise available to him do it.  If he is worried
>about protecting his intellectual property, then he should just forget 
>about
>it.  He can't.  If he wants to help mankind, then he should just be 
>applying
>himself to making real hardware available for sale.  If the stuff works,
>then people will line up to buy it.  His educational, promotional, legal,
>and business efforts aren't worth a dime without a real product.  He can
>explain the whole universe with coloring books, cartoons and big, fuzzy
>puppets for all that it is worth, but if the hardware doesn't work, and
>there is no product, then the whole thing is just a waste of time.
>
>Knuke
>Michael T. Huffman
>Huffman Technology Company
>1121 Dustin Drive
>The Villages, Florida 32159
>(352)259-1276
>knuke LCIA.COM
>http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm
>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Apr 25 22:31:44 2000
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April 25, 2000

Vortex,

Try rhis too for direct access:

<<http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0017/baard.shtml>>
^^                                                  
^^

I am sure, very early on in coverage of his
activities years ago, 
he was reported to have a working 'water
heater' device.

In his Ontario ACS presentation, Mills laid
more stress on 
the importance of developing Hydrino hydride
chemical compounds. 
He placed his undeniably found Hydrino excess
energy, as second 
in developmental importance although it was
to be developed in 
parallel. 
The excess energy, though quite a bit, was at
a level not yet 
enough to compete with established power
generation systems. 

Now whether Mills' sense of priorities serves
the best interests of 
cf, it's his judgment call. Meanwhile, other
cf related experiments 
by others continue.

This coming Sunday, Zimmerman will be
speaking on his 'pseudoscience' 
theme at the Long Beach APS meeting. We'll
see what he will be saying.
As for Park, I have backtracked all his 'What
new' articles related to cf
since '89. He is inflexible in his judgment
of cf since the beginning. 
But what I found is that his caustic critical
writing style is not reserved
just for cf but is for everything. I take his
articles as part humor
but it certainly is not constructive when his
opinions are given weight, 
appearing as the voice of APS, although with
disclaimers. Too bad, too sad.

-ak-

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 05:59:03 2000
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From: "Ed Wall" <ewall infinite-energy.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000425193520.14622B-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
Subject: Re: Zimmerman Re: Village Voice -- latest on USPTO-Park-Zimmerman scandal
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:54:47 -0400
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John,

Gene does not read Vortex much and I have no idea.

Ed Wall

----- Original Message -----
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: VORTEX <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 7:38 PM
Subject: Zimmerman Re: Village Voice -- latest on USPTO-Park-Zimmerman
scandal


>
>
> Dear EM.,
>
> Is the Zimmerman cited the same Zimmerman who did work about 12 or
> so years ago on using magnetostriction of Nickle plated Optical Fiber to
> det Micro Pulsations of the Earth's Magnetic Field   pub  Int'l Confr.
> Biomagnetometry Neuromagnetometry?
>
> See... I still keep my hand in on the tiny field stuff... once it
> is in your blood... it is like Rodeo.
>
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2000, Eugene F. Mallove wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > The Village Voice has another article about BlackLight Power and Mills
in
> > its current issue (April 26-May 2, 2000).  The full text of the article
> > is now on the Village Voice www site under "The Empire Strikes Back."
> >
> > http//www.villagevoice.com/issues/0017/baard.shtml
> >
> > It reports that the USPTO apparently caved in to the rantings of Park
and
> > Zimmerman et al after the first BLP patent (6,024,935) was issued on Feb
> > 15, 2000.  The USPTO pulled a second patent from BlackLight that was
> > about to be issued. Other misdeeds are listed, too numerous to mention.
> >
> > Gene
> >
> > Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
> > Infinite Energy Magazine
> > Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
> > P.O. Box 2816
> > Concord, NH 03302-2816
> >
> > Ph:  603-228-4516
> > Fax: 603-224-5975
> >
> > editor infinite-energy.com
> > www.infinite-energy.com
> >
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 10:36:46 2000
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
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PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 480   April 24, 2000   by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein

EXPLOITING QUANTUM "SPOOKINESS" TO CREATE
SECRET CODES has been demonstrated for the first time by three
independent research groups, advancing hopes for eventually
protecting sensitive data from any kind of computer attack.  In the
latest--and most foolproof--variation yet of the data-encryption
scheme known as quantum cryptography, researchers employ pairs
of "entangled" photons, particles that can be so intimately
interlinked even when far apart that a perplexed Einstein once
derided their behavior as "spooky action at a distance."
Entanglement-based quantum cryptography has unique features for
sending coded data at practical transmission rates and detecting
eavesdroppers.  In short, the entanglement process can generate a
completely random sequence of 0s and 1s distributed exclusively to
two users at remote locations.  Any eavesdropper's attempt to
intercept this sequence will alter the message in a detectable way,
enabling the users to discard the appropriate parts of the data.  This
random sequence of digits, or "key," can then be plugged into a code
scheme known as a "one-time pad cipher,"which converts the
message into a completely random sequence of letters.
   This code scheme--mathematically proven to be unbreakable
without knowledge of the key--actually dates back to World War I,
but its main flaw had been that the key could be intercepted by an
intermediary.  In the 1990s, Oxford's Artur Ekert
(artur.ekert qubit.org) proposed an entanglement-based version of
this scheme, not realized until now.  In the most basic version, a
specially prepared crystal splits a single photon into a pair of
entangled photons.   Both the message sender (traditionally called
Alice) and the receiver (called Bob) get one of the photons.  Alice
and Bob each have a detector for measuring their photon's
polarization, the direction in which its electric field vibrates.
Different polarizations could represent different digits, such as the 0
and 1 of binary code.  But according to quantum mechanics, each
photon can be in a combination (or superposition) of polarization
states, and essentially be a 0 and 1 at the same time.  Only when one
of them is measured or otherwise disturbed does it "collapse" to a
definite value of 0 and 1, in a random way.  But once one particle
collapses, its entangled partner is also forced to collapse into a
specific digit correlated with the first digit.  With the right
combination of detector settings on each end, Alice and Bob will get
the exact same digit.  After receiving a string of entangled photons,
Alice and Bob discuss which detector settings they used, rather than
the actual readings they obtained, and they discard readings made
with the incorrect settings. At that point, Alice and Bob have a
random string of digits that can serve as a completely secure key for
the mathematically unbreakable one-time pad cipher.  In their
demonstration, Los Alamos researchers (Paul Kwiat, 505-667-6173,
kwiat lanl.gov) simulated an eavesdropper (by passing the photons
through a filter on their way to Alice and Bob) and readily detected
disturbances in their transmissions (by employing what may be the
first practical application of the quantum-mechanical test known as
Bell's theorem), enabling them to discard the purloined information.
   In a separate demonstration of entangled cryptography for
completely isolated Alice and Bob stations separated by 1 km of
fiber optics, an Austrian research team (Thomas Jennewein,
University of Vienna, 011-43-1-4277-51207,
thomas.jennewein univie.ac.at) created a secret key and then
securely transmitted an image of the "Venus" von Willendorf, one of
the earliest known works of art. (See figures at www.quantum.at and
www.aip.org/physnews/graphics.)   Meanwhile, a University of
Geneva group (Nicholas Gisin, Nicolas.Gisin physics.unige.ch,
011-41 22 702 65 97) demonstrates entangled cryptography over
many kilometers of fiber using a photon frequency closest to what is
used on real-life fiber optics lines.  In these first experiments, the
three groups demonstrated relatively slow data transmission rates.
However, entanglement-based cryptography is potentially faster than
non-entangled quantum cryptography, which requires single-photon
sources (and therefore, faint light sources) to foil eavesdropping.
Entangled cryptography also produces relatively small amounts of
excess photons which an eavesdropper could conceivably skim for
information.  (Three upcoming papers in Physical Review Letters;
Select Article.)


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 12:12:08 2000
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Research published in tomorrow's Nature magazine supports a
"flat" universe.  See:

http://www.nature.com/

Regards,

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 12:29:49 2000
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Terry Blanton wrote (but couldnt' spell):
> 
> Research published in tomorrow's Nature magazine supports a
> "flat" universe.  See:
> 
> http://www.nature.com/
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 12:33:39 2000
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:31:25 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Wasted energy in Russia
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Money spent improving energy efficiency in the U.S. Europe and Japan would
save more energy if it was redirected toward Russia and the Third World
instead. The return on investment would be better because these countries
waste so much energy. This would cut pollution and lower the price of
energy for everyone. Here is a recent report from Russia describing
tremendous waste. American observers in Russia saw this sort of thing
during WWII and throughout the Communist era. Tons of coal used to spill
out of holes in the coal train cars, scattered along thousands of miles of
track in the uninhabited Siberian wilderness. In this article, ministry
spokesman Petrov is "skeptical" and wants to know how "ideal" savings could
be realized. He does not understand capitalism. They could be realized
simply, at no cost to anyone, by hiring U.S. corporations specializing in
pipeline refurbishing and oil well maintenance. Russia is broke and cannot
pay in cash, but it can pay with a share of the oil and gas the companies
conserve by repairing equipment. These companies would be well positioned
to ship the oil to nearby European and Asian markets if they could not sell
it in Russia at a profit. Everyone would come out ahead. This is not a free
lunch; it is a lunch you are paid to eat.

Perhaps Petrov should not be asking Greenpeace how to do this. It may not
occur to them to solve the problem by conventional, capitalistic means.
Where they see a problem calling for confrontation and a political
solution, I often see a straightforward technical problem which is also an
opportunity to make a profit at nobody's expense.

The only problem with this might be that some pipelines are places where
foreign experts are afraid to go because of political turmoil and the
danger of war. I doubt this would be a problem though. Pipeline and oil
well experts tend to be tough guys who are used to harsh and dangerous
places. Anyway, there would be enough profit to pay for large groups of
dependable armed guards. I gather you can hire a private army anywhere in
Russia these days. They are probably listed in the Yellow Pages.

- Jed

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

QUOTES:

The oil and gas that Russia loses each year in leaks and spills could
provide enough energy to allow the country to close its nuclear power
plants, Greenpeace said yesterday.  Between 70 million and 140 million
barrels of oil are spilled annually in Russia, out of the approximately 2.1
billion barrels the nation produces, the group says.  Greenpeace's
announcement came on the eve of the 14th anniversary of the Chernobyl
nuclear disaster.

. . .

Russian Nuclear Power Ministry spokesman Vladislav Petrov was skeptical
about the Greenpeace proposal. 

"It's a bit like saying, 'Let's take the whole humankind and transport it
to a new, wonderful planet,'" Petrov said by telephone. "The idea is nice,
but can it be realized?"

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/116/world/Greenpeace_Russia_could_shut_n:.sh
tml

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 12:38:09 2000
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:34:49 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Eculidean Universe
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Thanks for the warning. I'll be keeing the next issue of Nature away 
from my surf, my beer, and my women!

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

>Research published in tomorrow's Nature magazine supports a
>"flat" universe.  See:
>
>http://www.nature.com/
>
>Regards,
>
>Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 13:15:37 2000
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The Flat Universe has been out for a while by Perlmutter and company.  The 
curved void universe of Einstein was disproven decades ago but science had 
already published the books made the statues and there was money to be made. 
  Plus the big shots could not just admit there were wrong.

You can see Dr. Vera Rubin's statement at mey website, "scientists are going 
to have to give up their most precious beliefs".  ABC News.

It is all bunk.  Thermodynamics, big bang, void space, all science fiction.

It is all about clout and status, and money of course.  Not to mention 
brainwashing.  To get that degree, you have to swallow it all.  To question 
seriously just might get you flunked out.  No one can stand up to that kind 
of power.  But a house of cards eventually falls under its own weight.  
Babel Shackle Babel On.  Same old song every time.

The wisdom of man is not enough to cover the head of a pin.

David




>From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>Subject: Euclidean Universe
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:30:40 -0400
>
>Terry Blanton wrote (but couldnt' spell):
> >
> > Research published in tomorrow's Nature magazine supports a
> > "flat" universe.  See:
> >
> > http://www.nature.com/
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Terry
>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 13:44:27 2000
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As the tides sweep him out to sea!  :)  Say HI to Neptune for me.  Check in 
of that RAMA dude.  Ask his if he took enough valium.  Oh, the pain of it 
all, guzzle kill the pain while you can.

David


>From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: Eculidean Universe
>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:34:49 -1000
>
>Thanks for the warning. I'll be keeing the next issue of Nature away
>from my surf, my beer, and my women!
>
>- Rick Monteverde
>Honolulu, HI
>
>>Research published in tomorrow's Nature magazine supports a
>>"flat" universe.  See:
>>
>>http://www.nature.com/
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Terry
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 14:50:56 2000
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
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This article describes the same cryptographic technique that was used with
the older quantum effect cryptography, which employed polarized filters.
With the old technique, the filters are shifted at random by a machine, and
only one photon is transmitted per bit. The "entangled" method is itself
naturally random, and the APS article Horace posted says it allows many
photons per bit. I do not understand how that would work. I gather there
are 4 entangled now. Are people hoping to glom together a whole slew of
photons in one cloud (group, herd, posse, pride or school)? Quote from
article:

	However, entanglement-based cryptography is potentially faster
	than non-entangled quantum cryptography [the older form], which
	requires single-photon sources (and therefore, faint light
	sources) to foil eavesdropping.

With the older technique, they can detect a single photon in a 10 km long
fiber optic cable. That's remarkable. Conventional liquid scintillator
neutron detectors have difficulty detecting them 1 meter away. Mainly they
have trouble with noise, or false positives, according to Akimoto.

The world "entangled" should lend itself to puns about "One Entangled
Morning," or whatever.

- Jed

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In a message dated 04/25/2000 1:59:46 PM, JedRothwell infinite-energy.com 
writes:

Mills <<could win the whole battle in a month or two, if he would only open 
and demonstrate like any businessman would do.>>

You ignored the videotapes of the nearly four-hour presentation that Mills 
and his associates, plus Prof. Dr. Johannes Conrads, the former director of 
the Institute for Low Temperature Plasma, in Greifswald, Germany, gave at the 
ACS/SAS meeting in October 1999.  The presentation wasn't theoretical.  It 
was full of physical and chemical evidence.  It wasn't all that hard to catch 
the drift and see the importance of the main points.  But you turned it off, 
claiming that you couldn't make head or tail of it.  What makes you think 
that Mills could convince the world in a month or two in the face of such 
blindness?      

Mills mentioned excess heat numbers only briefly at the meeting, but over the 
years he's given many demonstrations of his energy cells to many people, only 
to be told by most of them that all excess heat numbers, no matter how 
strong, were suspect because of the cold fusion fiasco.  I think that's why 
he considers public demonstrations pointless, at least until he has a 
self-sustaining device.

But that may change if Mills' battle becomes even more political than it 
already is.

A question for Michael Schaffer.  At what point would you be convinced that 
Mills really had a reverse gyrotron?  If he demonstrated a device that was 
10% efficient in converting plasma power into DC?  50% efficient?  (This is 
just a hypothetical question.  I don't know anything more about his reverse 
gyrotron idea than the little that's appeared on the BLP website.)

Tom Stolper



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 15:52:38 2000
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Tom Stolper wrote:

>You ignored the videotapes of the nearly four-hour presentation that Mills 
>and his associates, plus Prof. Dr. Johannes Conrads, the former director of 
>the Institute for Low Temperature Plasma, in Greifswald, Germany, gave at
the 
>ACS/SAS meeting in October 1999.  The presentation wasn't theoretical.

A presentation will not cut the mustard. Only physical demonstrations in
the hands of many scientists will do the trick. This is marketing 101.


>It 
>was full of physical and chemical evidence.  It wasn't all that hard to
catch 
>the drift and see the importance of the main points.  But you turned it off, 
>claiming that you couldn't make head or tail of it.  What makes you think 
>that Mills could convince the world in a month or two in the face of such 
>blindness?

It is not blindness. I am incapable of understanding or appreciating the
technical points he wishes to make. I could easily understand the
demonstration of a heat generating device. But I am not the issue. He does
not need to convince me. He needs to convince many other experts who CAN
understand his technical arguments. He will never do that by lecturing. He
must put the machines in the hands of experts, and show them how to
proceed, just as AT&T showed people how to manufacture and use transistors.


>Mills mentioned excess heat numbers only briefly at the meeting, but over
the 
>years he's given many demonstrations of his energy cells to many people,
only 
>to be told by most of them that all excess heat numbers, no matter how 
>strong, were suspect because of the cold fusion fiasco.

With all due respect for Tom and Randy Mills, this is bullshit. Either his
demonstrations are inept and unconvincing, or he is showing them to the
wrong people. If he would give me a few of those machines I would convince
the entire world in three months flat, and have every industrial
corporation at his feet begging for a contract. I am no wizard. I have no
special talents as a salesman. But I think any person with basic training
in marketing could pull this off. This product is what you call "an easy
sell."


> I think that's why 
>he considers public demonstrations pointless, at least until he has a 
>self-sustaining device.

I do not understand this comment. I thought the devices he has been making
for the last few years have been gas loaded cells, which are
"self-sustaining" by definition, since they have no input energy. Perhaps I
misunderstood?

In any case, he is dead wrong. Even a non-sustaining cell would be
convincing if it was properly packaged, documented and presented. I used to
sell microcomputer apps back when the machines were as unreliable as an
early Model-T Fords driving through a foot of mud. The goods flew off the
shelf. Selling them was like shooting fish in a barrel. Bill Gates sells
unreliable garbage and he is the richest man on earth. I am sure the
present generation of Mills devices would sell as quickly as he could crank
them out, if he would only make a serious attempt to market them. Of course
he could blow it. He could set up a sales demonstration like the infamous
CETI Disneyland Hotel fiasco. Any machine, no matter how wonderful, can be
mismarketed in a way that confuses people, alienates them, and drives away
customers. Look at how Apple Computer blew their lead, threw away their
advantages, and let Microsoft steal most of their market share with a
crappy, unreliable knock-off product.


>But that may change if Mills' battle becomes even more political than it 
>already is.

It will have to change if he wants to win. He will never succeed with his
present strategy. He is wasting his time and his stockholder's money in a
hopeless battle.

Please note I am talking about his SALES and MARKETING strategies only. Not
his technical claims. There has been confusion about this. I have never
criticized his technical claims, which I barely understand, or his theory,
which I do not understand at all. I could not care less about either of
them. The only thing that interests me are proof-of-principle energy
generating devices. I do not question his expertise or alleged genius
either. I can't tell how much he knows. I can tell you that he does not
know beans about marketing. His comments relayed above prove that.
Marketing takes no special skills, and it easier than physics or hydrino
theories, but if you don't know it, you don't know it. Most people cannot
do it by instinct or by guessing. (I sure couldn't. I learned from
experienced salesmen and books.)

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Apr 26 22:30:30 2000
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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 01:41:42 -0400
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Gnorts,

For all the neophyte cryptofascists, and people who still think that they
have the ability or even the legal right to communicate privately.

http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/6731/1.html

Knuke


Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

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Subject: CNN.com - Technology - Feds may be reading your mail - April 26, 2000
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This should put the lid on some of the Vortex Noise, Knuke. :-)

 http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/04/26/mail.feds.idg/index.html

Regards,   Frederick

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 06:49:03 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:47:01 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: CNN.com - Technology - Feds may be reading your mail -
  April 26, 2000
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Frederick Sparber wrote:

>This should put the lid on some of the Vortex Noise, Knuke. :-)
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/04/26/mail.feds.idg/index.html

This describes the NSA program to monitor comsats and international cables.
International connections form a well-defined choke point which are
relatively easy to tap. Years ago, international traffic was only a tiny
fraction of domestic traffic. Perhaps it is growing rapidly with reduced
cost and Internet connections. I do not think the NSA has enough capacity
to monitor all connections within North America. I think you would have
recreate a large chunk of the telecom network to do that, which would be a
massive undertaking beyond the budget of the NSA and Pentagon. Also,
domestic communications often use packet switching these days, which was
designed to make it difficult to tap and assemble messages.

At least, a few years ago it would have been impossible. Perhaps the state
of the art has improved many orders of magnitude, but I doubt it. Tapping
all domestic land line communications is akin to scanning the faces of
every person in every airport, subway, tollbooth and shopping mall in the
U.S. The ability to scan "1 million message inputs every 30 minutes" would
not begin to suffice.

The Japanese police are working on pattern recognition computers that may,
in the future, be able to scan the faces of every person in every railroad
station in the country in real time, to identify criminal suspects and
missing persons from photographs, according to knowledgeable friend of mine.

As frightening as government intrusions are, we should not lose sight of
the fact that the most pervasive intrusions today are done by private
industry, such as credit verification and credit card companies, HMOs, and
the phone company. People who frequented Central Offices twenty years ago
often heard customer conversations tapped and broadcast on loudspeakers,
allegedly to test the quality of the lines. I do not know what the
situation is like today.

I think widespread use of PGP strong encryption would go a long way toward
defeating both government and industry snoops. It would make the job
millions of times more time consuming. It would defeat simple, rapid,
automatic computer scans through plaintext for words like "gun" "explosive"
by converting the messages to meaningless strings of numbers. Even if the
government has the ability to crack 1024 bit encryption (which I doubt), it
would probably take roughly as much time and computing power to crack one
encrypted message as it takes to scan a million plaintext ones. Also you
have to look up and associate public keys with the messages, which is an
administrative burden, and not all public keys are public, by any means.

Anyone who has something private to communicate should be using encryption.
You can now purchase PGP internet telecom voice encoding devices, for
conversations. I expect they run slowly with today's Internet dial up
connections.

According to today's theories of physics, quantum cryptography would defeat
all spooks for all time. Unless some fundamental, revolutionary discovery
about the nature of photons is made, quantum cryptography can never cracked
under any circumstances, by any amount of computer power. Theoretically, a
large volume of 1024 bit RSA code could be cracked in real time, if you
have more computer power than exists on earth at your disposal, but no
algorithm can crack a one-time pad. The problem with quantum cryptography
is that it requires specialized hardware and a direct, fiber-optic
connection to the person you want to communicate with, so it will not be
available to ordinary citizens for decades, if ever. RSA (PGP) cryptography
is implemented in software alone, so anyone can have it.

If you can arrange for occasional secure, live, in-person meetings with the
person you are communicating with, and you can secure your home or business
against break-ins, bugs and hidden cameras, you can use a conventional
one-time pad for unbreakable security. The spooks at the NSA and elsewhere
probably have sophisticated way to break in and bug houses and buildings,
but these operations are time consuming and expensive. Even a ruthless,
lawless organization could not afford to physically infiltrate and monitor
more than a tiny fraction of homes and businesses. The cheapest way to keep
tabs on the whole population is to use human informers, and to make groups
liable for the actions of individuals. This was done on a massive scale in
East Germany, the Soviet Union and in pre-modern Tokugawa Japan. In Nazi
Germany there was so much turmoil the system broke down, and some people
got away with defying the government openly. One ex-soldier I knew was on
the Gestapo hit list for most of 1944, but they never got around to
arresting him, they were so backed up. An anti-Nazi German friend of mine
grabbed the first opportunity he could, crossed the lines and surrendered
without interference. He was an art student before the war, and he later
married an American prison-camp nurse -- a black woman. Not all Germans fit
the stereotypes.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 09:03:51 2000
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: CNN.com - Technology - Feds may be reading your mail - 
  April 26, 2000
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I wrote:

>The cheapest way to keep
>tabs on the whole population is to use human informers, and to make groups
>liable for the actions of individuals.

I mean the weak link in a secure system is the operator. This is a
well-known rule of thumb in the security biz. Usually, the easiest way to
steal information is to subvert a member of the group with money or
blackmail. You pay someone to steal the code. Or you look for sloppy
operators who toss out secret codes in the trash, or use their own
birthdates or "1234" for keys. This is how the daily Enigma settings were
often broken during WWII.

"Making groups liable for individual actions" refers to a ruthless
technique perfected in ancient China. It was used there and in Japan until
modern times. Groups, families or neighborhoods were divided into tens. If
any member of a group broke a law, all were punished equally. In WWII POW
camps, when one prisoner escaped, or tried to escape, the other nine
assigned to his group were shot. The only rough equivalent I can think of
in the U.S. are the RICO conspiracy laws.

In response to this, premodern Japanese citizens developed elaborate ways
to disguise who was responsible for what, or even who said what. For
example, villagers might submit a petition with evidence that a government
official was corrupt. The court might agree and punish the official, but as
a matter of routine law the person or persons mainly responsible for
submitting the petition in the first place would also have to be killed.
Any defiance of the government, justified or not, was a capital offense.
The government would pick the first ten people from the list of signatures
and have them killed. To get around this illogical requirement, people
learned to sign petitions in a circle, from the center out in spokes, the
way people sometimes sign their names on Japanese flags today. There was no
top or bottom to the list, no beginning or end, and thus no designated
ringleaders. The government could hardly slaughter the entire village, so
everyone went free.

This kind of technique is cheaper and easier than bugging houses or trying
to crack 1024 bit RSA codes. When you set any rules you like, you do not
need high technology to impose airtight control on a society.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 11:41:18 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:13:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
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Sounds like any orgy to me  :>}

Hank

On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> This article describes the same cryptographic technique that was used with
> the older quantum effect cryptography, which employed polarized filters.
> With the old technique, the filters are shifted at random by a machine, and
> only one photon is transmitted per bit. The "entangled" method is itself
> naturally random, and the APS article Horace posted says it allows many
> photons per bit. I do not understand how that would work. I gather there
> are 4 entangled now. Are people hoping to glom together a whole slew of
> photons in one cloud (group, herd, posse, pride or school)? Quote from
> article:
> 
> 	However, entanglement-based cryptography is potentially faster
> 	than non-entangled quantum cryptography [the older form], which
> 	requires single-photon sources (and therefore, faint light
> 	sources) to foil eavesdropping.
> 
> With the older technique, they can detect a single photon in a 10 km long
> fiber optic cable. That's remarkable. Conventional liquid scintillator
> neutron detectors have difficulty detecting them 1 meter away. Mainly they
> have trouble with noise, or false positives, according to Akimoto.
> 
> The world "entangled" should lend itself to puns about "One Entangled
> Morning," or whatever.
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 11:57:46 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:54:07 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: OFF TOPIC First effective human gene therapy reported
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Several cases of genetic immune disorder has been treated successfully.
Gene therapy has had a rocky, long delayed start. It turned out to be much
more difficult than it looked, like some other breakthroughs we know. See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27046-2000Apr27.html

Quotes:

"It looks like gene therapy is beginning to turn the corner," said W.
French Anderson, who led the first gene therapy experiment in the United
States while he was at the National Institutes of Health in 1990.

"We're not talking about treatments for lots of diseases in the next few
years," said Anderson, now at the University of Southern California. "But
this is certainly good news for patients because until now we had
essentially zero success."

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 13:35:25 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:42:44 -0800
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
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At 1:41 AM 4/27/0, Michael T Huffman wrote:
>Gnorts,
>
>For all the neophyte cryptofascists, and people who still think that they
>have the ability or even the legal right to communicate privately.
>
>http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/co/6731/1.html
>
>Knuke
>

Achtung neophyte cryptofascists!

I have devised a means to defeat the Dutch requirement to provide
assistance with the keys outlined at the above URL.  That means I have
devised eliminates the need to know or even to retrieve the keys
altogether.  It is based on a special use of a modified RSA type algorithm
for key exchange.  The scheme is based on periodic random generation of
multiple psuedo-prime pairs for use in the RSA-like algorithm.  The basis
of my scheme is that at startup, and periodically,  the initial public key
exchange occurs in the encryption key of the prior generation cypher
multiple times.  In other words, at start-up, multiple generations of
cyphers are produced. In this way extensive testing of the psudo-primes is
not required because lots of them are generated and exchanged in the
initial startup of the protocol, which is done well in advance of, and
possibly in parallel with,  the actual message exchange.  Only several of
the keys need be strong to protect the cypher.  Since the probability of a
weak key is small, the conditional probability of multiple sequential weak
key generations is very small.

After startup in the above manner, a special key is generated and exchanged
in the nth generation cypher, to be used in another special algorithm I
have devised for fast exchange of a randomly generated one time pad.  This
one time pad makes for very fast communication in small data increments at
the time of need for commuincations.  The startup exchange and pad
generation can go on continually when the channel is idle so as to as to
keep fresh pad available for fast communications.  When a suitable buffer
of fresh pad is full and unused it can be still be discarded unused to make
room for the fresh pad.  In this way (a) all coordination of encryption is
hands off (b) there is no need for physical key exchange (c) data exchange
is fast at the time of need (d) the communication channel is kept busy with
volumes of unintelligible garbage, only some of which is useful, thus
hiding message volume as well as providing a fromidable computation burden,
(e) there is no worry about losing cypher keys, and (f) the scheme can be
managed and provided by a third party who has no access to the keys -
provided that party did not implement or fall victum to a "trogan board."
The disadvantage is that the data transmitted is only protected from
interception in the communications medium.  Once received, any data must be
left in the clear or enrypted using another scheme for data storage, or
destroyed. Another disadvantage is that a separate board with dedicated cpu
and electronic random number generator is required on at least one end to
implement the scheme efficiently.  That board could reside on a server at
any location of choice.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 14:02:35 2000
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From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
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Horace Heffner wrote:

>I have devised a means to defeat the Dutch requirement to provide
>assistance with the keys outlined at the above URL.  That means I have
>devised eliminates the need to know or even to retrieve the keys
>altogether.  It is based on a special use of a modified RSA type algorithm
>for key exchange.  The scheme is based on periodic random generation of
>multiple psuedo-prime pairs for use in the RSA-like algorithm. . . 

You are saying that when all is said and done, and the information is
exchanged, the key is automatically lost. Correct?


>The disadvantage is that the data transmitted is only protected from
>interception in the communications medium.  Once received, any data must be
>left in the clear or enrypted using another scheme for data storage, or
>destroyed. . . .

Well, this would bring us right back to where we started, with the Dutch
police threatening people's civil rights. If the data is retained anywhere
in the computer, it would have to be with a known, unlost key of some sort,
and therefore according to the proposed law they could force you to tell
them what the key is.

I think I see Horace's point though. If the key is lost and the plaintext
data on your computer is erased, then even if the police have collected the
encoded data in transmission, they cannot force you to unlock it, simply
because you can't decode it any more than they can. This is interesting.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 14:33:14 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:34:56 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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References: <39074003.D894E79E bellsouth.net> <v04210102b52cf49665f6@[192.168.0.2]>
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Rick Monteverde wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the warning. I'll be keeing the next issue of Nature away
> from my surf, my beer, and my women!

And your tyres!

The BOOMERANG website has posted some interesting images of the
Primordial Plasma at their web site:

http://www.physics.ucsb.edu/~boomerang/

Compare those images in the 10E2GHz range with optical images of
the surface of the Sun.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 14:51:44 2000
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From: "David Dennard" <daviddennard hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Antigravity] Fw: Universe proven flat
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:48:06 PDT
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Good one Terry.


>From: "David Dennard" <daviddennard hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: Antigravity egroups.com
>To: Antigravity egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Antigravity] Fw: Universe proven flat
>Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:24:29 PDT
>
>Perlmutter and company, have been saying this for a while too.  Whirlpower
>Theory states this too and has for years, but not the big bang part.  
>Latest
>Chandra data shows that is science fiction too.
>
>Almost all we think of as science based on void curved thermodynamic action
>is science fiction.  These were just Einstein's musings after he dismissed
>the cosmological constant.  He did his most brilliant works as a nobody 
>drop
>out.  Only after he got recognized and moved up in the scientific world was
>he brainwashed.  He did return to his senses in his later years looking
>again for the cosmological constant.
>
>To bad he did not find it then.  Would have saved us decades of pollution.
>
>David Dennard
>The Cosmological Constant
>http://www.whirlpower.cc
>
>
> >From: "Anna M*" <pantheon ix.netcom.com>
> >Reply-To: Antigravity egroups.com
> >To: <adventuresunlimited egroups.com>, <Antigravity@egroups.com>,
> ><astro-forum egroups.com>, "energy21" <energy21@listbot.com>,
> ><freenrg-l eskimo.com>, "kroniatalk" <kroniatalk@telelists.com>,
> >"MILLENNIUM PROJECT" <infonet home.com>, <time-space@egroups.com>
> >Subject: [Antigravity] Fw: Universe proven flat
> >Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:05:31 -0700
> >
> >Fascinating news.
> >Anna
> >
> >
> > > [forwarded by Varda Ullman Novick.  JK]
> > >
> > > BBC
> > > Wednesday, 26 April, 2000, 19:59 GMT 20:59 UK
> > >
> > > A high-flying balloon which soared over Antarctica has answered one of
> > > cosmology's greatest questions by revealing that the universe is 
>"flat".
> > >
> > > To astronomers, flat means that the usual rules of geometry are 
>observed
> >-
> > > light travels in straight lines, not curves.  But since Albert 
>Einstein
> > > proposed that the universe was "curved", the debate has been open.
> > >
> > > Scientific opinion has moved towards a flat universe and the latest 
>data
> > > confirm this with greater certainty than ever before.
> > >
> > > Another result of the study is the prediction that the universe will
> > > eventually stop expanding from the Big Bang, but will not collapse 
>into
> >a
> > > "Big Crunch".
> > >
> > > "It's a tremendously exciting result - and one that will mean 
>rewriting
> > > the text books on the history of the universe," said one of the 
>research
> > > team, Professor Peter Ade at Queen Mary College, University of London.
> > >
> > > Faint heat
> > >
> > > The new information is an exquisitely accurate map of the very
> > > faint afterglow of heat left behind by the Big Bang.  This is called 
>the
> > > Cosmic Microwave Background and is equivalent to the tiny warmth given
> >off
> > > by something just a few degrees above absolute zero, -273 degC.
> > >
> > > Tiny temperature variations in the CMB, just 0.1% at most, allow
> > > scientists to test different models of how the Universe began and
> > > expanded.
> > >
> > > The map was made by an international team led by Paulo de Bernardis of
> >the
> > > University of Rome La Sapienza.  He said: "It's really exciting to be
> >able
> > > to see some of the fundamental structures of the Universe in their
> > > embryonic state.
> > >
> > > The achievement, he said, was distinguishing the CMB from other
> > > interference: "The light we have detected has travelled across the
> >entire
> > > Universe and we are perfectly able to distinguish it from the light
> > > generated in our own galaxy."
> > >
> > > Sky high boomerang
> > >
> > > The project to map the CMB was called Boomerang
> > > (Balloon Observations of Millimetric Extragalactic Radiation and
> > > Geophysics).
> > >
> > > The measurements were made using a very sensitive telescope suspended
> >from
> > > a balloon 40,000 metres (131,000 feet) above Antarctica.  The 
>instrument
> > > flew around the frozen continent between 29 December 1998 and 8 
>January
> > > 1999.
> > >
> > > It has taken since then to process the one billion measurements.  The
> > > calculations alone would have taken six years to complete if run on a
> > > desktop computer.  On the Cray T3E supercomputer at the Lawrence
> >Berkeley
> > > National Laboratory, US, they took less than three weeks.
> > >
> > > The fundamental cosmic parameters derived from the work are accurate 
>to
> > > within just a few percent.
> > >
> > > The research is published in the journal Nature and in an accompanying
> > > commentary, Wayne Hu, of the US School of Natural Sciences, New 
>Jersey,
> > > said: "The Boomerang result supports a flat Universe.  A perfectly 
>flat
> > > Universe will remain at the critical density, because there is not
> >enough
> > > matter to make it recollapse in a 'Big Crunch'."
> > >
> >
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Apr 27 15:46:58 2000
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:00:48 -0800
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
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At 4:59 PM 4/27/0, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>Horace Heffner wrote:
>
>>I have devised a means to defeat the Dutch requirement to provide
>>assistance with the keys outlined at the above URL.  That means I have
>>devised eliminates the need to know or even to retrieve the keys
>>altogether.  It is based on a special use of a modified RSA type algorithm
>>for key exchange.  The scheme is based on periodic random generation of
>>multiple psuedo-prime pairs for use in the RSA-like algorithm. . .
>
>You are saying that when all is said and done, and the information is
>exchanged, the key is automatically lost. Correct?


Yes - periodically keys are replaced and the old ones discarded. The
computer knows the key at a given moment, but at any time a new key can be
provided and the old discarded.  The comparative low volume and high
security of the key exchange protocol permits this.  For efficiency keys
could be exchanged slightly in advance of their need, and in parallel to
the session, but requiring only a small amount of bandwidth of the session
for the exchange protocol.  Echange of the one time pad does eat up about
half the session time, but that part can run during idle periods.


>
>
>>The disadvantage is that the data transmitted is only protected from
>>interception in the communications medium.  Once received, any data must be
>>left in the clear or enrypted using another scheme for data storage, or
>>destroyed. . . .
>
>Well, this would bring us right back to where we started, with the Dutch
>police threatening people's civil rights. If the data is retained anywhere
>in the computer, it would have to be with a known, unlost key of some sort,
>and therefore according to the proposed law they could force you to tell
>them what the key is.

Well, if you leave the data on a server in some remote and more tolerant
country then you only acess the data upon need - using your computer as a
terminal.  The bits evaporate upon power off.  No virtual memory allowed!


>
>I think I see Horace's point though. If the key is lost and the plaintext
>data on your computer is erased, then even if the police have collected the
>encoded data in transmission, they cannot force you to unlock it, simply
>because you can't decode it any more than they can. This is interesting.

Yes.  Once the key for the actual transmission is replaced by a new one it
is no longer possible to decipher the old encrypted data.  Frequent key
replacement combined with superfluous data transmission obsoletes the data
pretty fast and turns cryptoanalysis into a computational nightmare.  I
should add that you probably should start off with a known key, but that is
not required because after a short time no one knows the keys in use except
the computers - without finding every key in a long string of cyphers.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 01:21:54 2000
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From: knuke LCIA.COM (Michael T Huffman)
Subject: Re: More on quantum entanglement and one time pad
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 04:33:32 -0400
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Hi Horace,

If you keep reading up on this technology, and design your algorithms so
that they are able to take advantage of the abilities of tomorrow's light
computers, they would be faster than thought itself, maybe.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast28apr_1m.htm

Knuke - Faster than a speeding mullet.


Michael T. Huffman
Huffman Technology Company
1121 Dustin Drive
The Villages, Florida 32159
(352)259-1276
knuke LCIA.COM
http://www.aa.net/~knuke/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 07:09:01 2000
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Subject: Stardust, or Tardust?
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***{Interstellar dust, it appears, is mostly organic material, akin to the
tarballs that float up on our beaches. But how could tar get into space? We
know where our tarballs come from: they come from the ships which we use to
ply the oceans of Earth. Do the tarballs of space come from ships that ply
the oceans of space? If not, then the constituent atoms must get together
in space somehow, because they certainly do not exist in molecular form
when blasted out from supernovas. However, the assumption that they get
together in space leads to problems: why the preference for the formation
of organic molecules? Surely there is a much greater likelihood that
inorganic molecules will be formed than organic ones! Why, then, is it
mostly organic molecules that are showing up on the mass spec? Anybody?
--MJ}***

Max-Planck-Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics

Contact:
Dr. Jochen Kissel,
Max-Planck-Institut fur extraterrestrische Physik
Giessenbachstrabe
D-85740 Garching
phone: ++49/89/32 99-38 17
fax: ++49/89/32 99-35 69
e-mail: kissel mpe.mpg.de

April 26, 2000

Tarlike macro-molecules detected in 'stardust'

Mass-spectrometer CIDA of the Garching based Max-Planck-Institut on the
NASA spacecraft STARDUST produces puzzling results

The first in-situ chemical analysis of interstellar dust particles produces
a puzzling result: These cosmic particles consist mostly of 3-dimensionally
cross-linked organic macro-molecules, so-called polymeric-heterocyclic-
aromates. "They rather resemble tar-like substances than minerals" say Dr.
Franz R. Krueger (contractor) and Dr.Jochen Kissel, Max-Planck-Institut fur
extraterrestrische Physik (for extraterrestrial Physics), Garching near
Munich, Germany, in the latest issue of 'Sterne und Weltraum' a monthly,
German language Astronomy magazine in Heidelberg, Germany.

 So far, 5 interstellar dust particles (dust between the stars) have hit
the Garching built dust impact mass spectrometer CIDA (Cometary and
Interstellar Dust Analyzer) onboard the NASA spacecraft STARDUST.  Launched
on Feb 7th 1999 STARDUST will visit comet Wild-2 (pronounce Vild-2) in 2004.

To reach the comet, STARDUST has to perform three orbits about the sun. At
the close fly-by (miss-distance 500 km/300 miles) another instrument will
collect cometary dust and return it, well packed, to earth in January of
2006. During its 7 year mission, STARDUST will face the stream of
interstellar dust several times. This dust is part of the local environment
in the Milky Way which the solar system currently passes through at high
speed. It has recently be seen by dust instruments of the Heidelberg-based
Max-Planck-Institut fur Kernphysik (for Nuclear Physics) on both NASA's
Galileo and ESA's Ulysses spacecrafts. The first measuring campaign for
CIDA from February through December 1999 has produced the new results.

During this time STARDUST was at a distance of about 240 million kilometers
(150 million miles) from the earth when the first impact occurred. Just
before the campaign the spacecraft pointed the instrument into the
direction of the interstellar dust, so that it would not measure the more
frequent interplanetary dust particles, which are parts of our solar system.

At an impact speed of about 30 kilometers/second (18 miles/second) these
interstellar dust particles are vaporized immediately and broken up into
molecular fragments. A fraction of those carries a positive or negative
electronic charge. By its electric field in front of the target CIDA pulls
the  positive ions into the instrument to the detector. Depending on their
mass it takes the ions different times to travel the 1.5 meters (5 feet)
distance (heavier ions travel longer). This way they are detected mass
after mass with in some 200 millionth of a second, and a mass spectrum is
generated.

"It is the size of these molecular fragments with nuclear masses of up to
2000 (water e.g. has 18 such units) which surprised us as much as the
seemingly absence of any mineral constituents", explains Dr. Kissel of the
Garching-based Max-Planck-Institut fur extraterrestrische Physik. "Only
organic molecules can reach those sizes". The largest molecules found in
space so far are the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) which reach
masses of a few hundred mass units.

The details of the mass spectra measured with CIDA show that the molecules
of the interstellar dust must have about 10% of nitrogen and/or oxygen in
addition to hydrogen and carbon. This means that these cannot be pure PAHs,
which are planar, but are especially due to the nitrogen extend into all
three spacial directions.

Such three dimensional molecules can form links to their neighbours
andreach a thermal stability necessary to survive the trip into the inner
solar system with 300 to 350 Kelvin (70 to 180 degrees Fahrenheit). "The
organic material analyzed with CIDA in the interstellar dust particles is
another type of reactive molecules which we found in the dust of comet
Halley 14 years ago" says Dr. Kissel. "When they got in contact with liquid
water on the young earth, they could have triggered the type of chemical
reactions which are a prerequisite for the origin of life."

Related web-pages:

* STARDUST
  http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/
* CIDA
  http://www.geo.fmi.fi/PLANETS/

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 08:56:45 2000
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Subject: Giuliano Preparata
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:58:37 -0400
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From: "Eugene F. Mallove" <editor infinite-energy.com>
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 As this issue (#31) of IE went to press in late April, we learned of the 
untimely death of noted cold fusion theorist, Prof. Giuliano Preparata of 
the Dept. of Physics at the University of Milano, Italy. We understand 
that his death, shortly before Easter, was due to a cancer, of which he 
had been aware for only some months.  Giulianošs intelligence, good 
humor, and dramatic style at cold fusion conferences dating back to 1990 
in Salt Lake City, where I first met him, will be sorely missed.   Those 
attending ICCF-8 in Italy next month will feel a special loss. We expect 
to have an obituary in a subsequent issue.


Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
Infinite Energy Magazine
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
PO Box 2816
Concord, NH 03302

	Phone: 603-228-4516
	Fax:   603-224-5975
        editor infinite-energy.com

		      http://www.infinite-energy.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 09:27:41 2000
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
cc: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Stardust, or Tardust?
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	The article said "only organic molecules reach molecular weights
of 2,000.  This is simple not true.  There are plenty of polymers and
silicon molecules which are heavier.
	

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 10:58:58 2000
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: [antigrav] If a Soliton is a single waveform ..how can it pulsate?"Mass", is , the same as saying "amount of aether". (fwd)
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:43:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Ross Tessien <cyrano aqua.ocn.ne.jp>
Subject: [antigrav] If a Soliton is a single waveform ..how can it pulsate?"Mass", is , the same as saying "amount of aether".


	See flag, note [s], questions, comments, below, please; 

On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Ross Tessien wrote:

> (Gareth)
> >electric and magnetic masses are not recognised as such and this is one of
> >the reasons physics is in such an abysmal state.
> 
> (Ross)
> "Mass", is the same as saying "amount of aether".
> 
> Magnetic or electric mass, is meaningless.
> 
> What physicists call "fields", are just the shapes of the waves the aether 
> takes on. 

	_________________	FLAG	________________

 More correctly, it is the interference between the waves sent 
> out by
	........ pulsating solitons.......

	A soliton is a single waveform.  It is a shape of a waveform,
first notes as a wave in water in the early 1800s.  
	How can a single wave "pulsate"?

	It is possible The author has a different meaning and definition
of Soliton than the major balance of the scientific community.

----------------------------40	-------------
 as they interfere with the waveform we know as > spacetime.  The
interference between their waveforms leads to the > acceleration of a
soliton, and hence to our concept of fields.  > > but electric mass is a
goofy and meaningless term, IMO.  > > rt > > >
------------------------------------------------------------------------ >
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 13:07:36 2000
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:57:47 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Stardust, or Tardust?
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John Schnurer wrote:

>	The article said "only organic molecules reach molecular weights
>of 2,000."  This is simply not true.  There are plenty of polymers and
>silicon molecules which are heavier.

***{Yes, but the article also mentioned "the seeming absence of any mineral
constituents," which suggested to me that the authors have some information
beyond the mere size of the observed fragments to go on. In any case, even
if some of these compounds are silicon based, we still are faced with a
conundrum: what happened to the inorganic molecules of the more ordinary
sizes that we see here on Earth? What process in interstellar space is
contributing to the predominance of large, complex molecules? Life in
interstellar space, perhaps? Or even interstellar shipping lanes, into
which alien travelers expel their waste? This strikes me as a very odd, and
very suggestive result. --MJ}***

>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 13:44:19 2000
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Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:35:30 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <JedRothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Giuliano Preparata
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This is awful. Giuliano was one of the most dynamic people in the field.

I fear the cold fusion scientists will grow old, retire and die, and the
field will wither away. Unless one of them is capable and willing to "go
public" and demonstrate the effect . . . all may be lost in the years to come.

I hate to be pessimistic about this. Fundamentally, I am an optimist.
Samuel Florman says that when he sees his alarm clock or his pillow, or
some other humble man-made object, he sees a miracle of engineering and
many human generations of effort. I feel that way too. Every day I
astounded by some clever object or a story of what people accomplished, and
that makes me think we will accomplish much more in the future.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 14:57:18 2000
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Subject: Re: Stardust, or Tardust?
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I imagine the reference was to organic, non-synthetic molecules.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Cc: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Stardust, or Tardust?


> 
> The article said "only organic molecules reach molecular weights
> of 2,000.  This is simple not true.  There are plenty of polymers and
> silicon molecules which are heavier.
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 15:18:14 2000
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Apr 28, 2000
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:05:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 28 Apr
00   Washington, DC

1. MISSILE DEFENSE: CLINTON GETS IT FROM ALL
SIDES.  What does
Vladimir Putin have in common with Jesse
Helms?  They both oppose
any modification of the ABM treaty.  Helms,
however, wants to
kill the ABM treaty outright, while Russia
insists there will be
no further negotiations on arms reduction if
the treaty in its
present form is violated.  That's OK with
Helms who vows to block
any "grand treaty initiatives" in the
remaining months of the
Clinton Administration anyway.  In the
meantime the Congressional
Budget Office now estimates the total cost at
$60B for a limited
missile defense system that most experts say
will provide little
if any protection.  With this background, a
lame-duck president
is preparing to travel to a summit in Moscow
to negotiate changes
in the ABM treaty.  Secretary of State
Albright is optimistic.

2. ISS: IT'S BEGINNING TO SOUND A LOT LIKE
MIR.  While Atlantis
remained on the ground this week due to bad
weather, the orbit of
the uninhabited station continued to decay by
about 1.5 miles per
week.  The faster-than-usual decay is blamed
on increased solar
activity.  Because the Russian service module
is two years behind
schedule, Atlantis is needed to boost the
orbit.  Another try may
not take place before May 18, due to a heavy
launch schedule.
Meanwhile, the station is down to four
functioning batteries and
another is failing--at least three are needed
to keep the station
from tumbling.  While on the station, the
crew will have to wear
ear plugs because of the poor acoustic design
and use personal
fans to circulate the stale air that sickened
the last crew.  By
comparison, Mir, which Russia hopes to
convert into a tourist
hotel, should be able to charge for luxury
accommodations.

3. NUCLEAR PHOBIA I: NO EXCESS CANCERS FROM
THREE MILE ISLAND.  
A 13-year study of people living within five
miles of the Three
Mile Island nuclear plant found no increase
in cancer deaths due
to the 1979 accident.  You will not be
surprised to learn that
the University of Pittsburgh researchers
called for continued
monitoring of the resident's health, while
nuclear activists
insisted the study must be flawed and called
for expanding it to
ten miles from the plant.  There have been no
calls for similar
studies around coal-fired power plants, which
deposit vastly
greater amounts of radioactivity as well as
other carcinogens. 

4. NUCLEAR PHOBIA II: CHILDREN KEPT AWAY FROM
HALL OF SCIENCE. 
The Alameda County Board of Education called
for a moratorium on
field trips to the Lawrence Hall of Science
where hundreds of
children are shown the wonders of science
each day.  The Board
acted at the urging of the Berkeley-based
Committee to Minimize
Toxic Waste which claims the area is
contaminated by tritium from
the nearby National Tritium Labeling
Facility.  Astounded LBL 
and EPA officials explained to the Board that
levels comply with
federal guidelines, but the Board was
unmoved.

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions
are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS,
but they should be.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 15:52:38 2000
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April 28, 2000

Vortex,

So, Preparata has died! I liked his Italian flair for the dramatic and humor.
At the 5th, with all due respect to his memory, I thought some of it was
misplaced when strong objection was raised on someone disclosing the rumored,
and 'confidential' findings of the late Kevin Wolf (who denied or did not
believe his own findings) on transmutations in his cold fusion experiments
('Gene knows more about this than I).
I did not know Preparata personally but did catch a bit of him at the ICCF-5
and 6 (he is on videotape). Missed him at the ICCF-7 and expected to catch
him at the 8th. A very strong and interesting believer in cold fusion. I will
miss him.

-AK-


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 19:47:33 2000
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Stardust, or Tardust?
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:44:43 +1000
Organization: Improving
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:57:47 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote:
[snip]
How much does a charged ice crystal weigh?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Apr 28 22:56:05 2000
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 <v04011702b52f9daf53be [207.8.127.59]>
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:53:45 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Stardust, or Tardust?
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>On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:57:47 -0500, Mitchell Jones wrote:
>[snip]
>How much does a charged ice crystal weigh?

***{If you are suggesting that adhesive forces within an ice crystal the
size of a dust mote would be strong enough to hold it together during a 30
km/sec impact, I doubt it. I would expect individual molecules, or ions, to
result from such impacts.

If you want to debunk the idea that organic matter predominates in
interstellar dust, I think the best argument would be that the sample--a
mere five dust particles so far--is too small to be representative of the
norm.

--Mitchell Jones}***

>
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Apr 29 18:44:27 2000
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From: "Michael Randall" <vrand01 earthlink.net>
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Subject: Greg Watson's e-mail update
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:41:27 -0700
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Hi All,

Gregory Watson gowatson hotmail.com asked to tell he me to tell others (SMOT
purchasers) that he is not using the gowatson ozemail.com.au email address
anymore.

Regards,  Michael