From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 08:50:51 2001
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From: "Adam Cox" <merlyn_x hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Paradox
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:49:19 -0500
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>From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>To: vortex-l eskimo.com
>Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Paradox
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:39:16 -0500
>
<<snip my restatement of what I understand>>

>>Merlyn
>
>Merlyn:
>
>OK here is the gig.   The inductance behaves like resistance only for
>purposes of calculation.  So  if you have two 1H coils in series then the
>total inductance (assuming no coupling) will be 2H and in parallel the
>inductance will be 500mH
>

This is what I said.

>This of course has nothing to do with the field.  In order to increase the
>field you need to increase the number of turns.  As the turns are increased
>so also the inductance.  Having nothing to do with the calculate shortcut
>of comparing L to R.
>
>Assuming an air core
>
>L=(.2 * a^2 * n^2) / (3a + 9b + 10C)
>
>Where "L" is inductance in uH
>and "a" is the average diameter of the coil in inches (outer + inner)/2
>and "b" is the length of the coil cylinder in inches
>and "c" is the radial depth of the windings in inches (outer - inner)
>and "n" is the number of turns
>

Ah, but this formula only applies to a single coil, by the calculations 
previous two 1H coils in parralel have an inductance of 500 mH and then if 
those two coils are put in series with another pair, the inductance becomes 
1H again.  Likewise the resistance of the four series-parralel coils is 
equivalent to the original coil.  Each coil has 1/2 the original current so 
with 4 coils you have 2*the original amp-turns, creating twice the flux/ 
flux density

It seems very strange that there should be a formula for calculating 
inductance which is not applicable in the situation it seems designed for ie 
calculating the total inductance of a sries-parralel arrangement of coils.


>This is an old shortcut formula (circa 1953 ARRL Radio Armature Handbook)
>but It is the most accurate I have used providing you do not need to use a
>core constant.
>
>As you can see the inductance varies with the square of the turns.  If you
>where to find a formula for total flux you will find that it also varies
>with the square of the turns.  The "Ampere turns" is a flux density unit
>not at total flux unit.
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>


"I must have misunderstood"
Merlyn

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 10:27:36 2001
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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:13:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Rene Reynders <r.reynders call-it.ti.nl>,
        Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
cc: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>, jlnlabs@egroups.com
Subject: How   How do Fe or Pb ?????
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	Dear Rene,

	You write: 


	"......Possible solution to cancel back EMF is to place iron or Pb
tubes around the coils.    ...."


	How will this alter back EMF?

	Please.


	

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 11:33:51 2001
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>, <jlsparber@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gravity Force and Accelerated Frame Time Dilation
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:22:15 -0500
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A quick way to find the Accelerated Frame Time Dilation
(gamma) and it's relevance to the ratio of the Electromagnetic Force to the Gravity
Force at unit separation:

Electrostatic Force between 2 electrons at 1.0 meter separation:

Fes =  kq^2/r^2 = 2.304E-28  (newtons)

Gravity Force between two electrons at 1.0 meter separation:

Fg = 6.67E-11*9.1E-31^2 =  5.523E-71 (newtons)

[Fes/Fg]^1/2 = 2.04E21

This is the accelerated frame time-dilation gamma responsible for the Gravity Force.

For two Protons at unit separation the accelerated frame time-dilation gamma is
1.1E18.

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 11:40:38 2001
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From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
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Subject: Re: Vast Impedance Differences for 60 Henry coils   481 hz
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Thanks for the information. One point of clarification- In a parallel
resonant circuit, the current in the capacitor is 180 degrees out of phase
with the current through the inductor. Also a three phase transformer can
be either wye or delta connected, and the secondary can be different then
the primary. If the loads on the circuit are balanced three phase loads,
the currents or voltages will be 120 degrees out of phase. If they are not
balanced, the analysis of the circuit is much harder, you have to apply
Kirchoff's laws carefully to see what is actually happening.

Hank


On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, harvey norris wrote:

> 
> --- hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu> wrote:
> > Why not test each coil separately initially, with
> > the others far away, and
> > open circuited. Also, take a DC ohmic reading for
> > each, to get a feeling
> > whether they are identical, or have shorted turns,
> > etc.
> I no longer think shorted turns are responsible. Each
> of the coils are 23 gauge wire of 1000 ohms, about 80
> lbs. 
> > If you don't want them coupled, move them quite far
> > apart in your delta
> > configuration. Each coil acts more or less as a
> > magnetic dipole with its
> > external magnetic field attenuating approximately as
> > dist^-3 in space.
> I have separated these some more, mutual inductance is
> minimized.
> > Overall, what are you trying to do.
> The original intention was to resonate them at the
> frequency of the AC 3 phase alternator. Dual aluminum
> foil plates across plexiglass serves as the capacity
> each phase needs to resonate. After setting this up to
> calculated values, no resonant rise of voltage was
> noted. This was because the predicted X(L) values were
> much higher than  predicted by book values. These
> capacities are now reduced for the actual experienced
> reactances of the coils.
> 
> The phase that allows the least conduction is actually
> acting as though it were capacitive reactance instead
> of inductive!!! This was noted by placing a 13 inch
> length core of 7 bound strontium ferrite cylinders
> into each core core volume separately, and noting the
> expected decrease in recorded amperages. When this is
> done for the worst coil that only conducts ~ .6 ma, it
> was observed to allow that coils conduction to rise to
> 1.1 ma! Doing this to the other coils reduces their
> amperage as predicted, but increases the amperage on
> that coil that is conducting the least. This brings
> the needed capcity to resonate up to a value that a
> prepared axial water capacity can supply. This is a
> plastic pitcher of water surrounded by aluminum foil
> as one of the insulated plates, and a 2 inch copper
> pipe as the actual immersed water electrode. By using
> this as the needed capacity for the SrFe coil, that
> entire water capacitor can be placed inside the volume
> of the 5 inch inner diameter of the coil in the
> adjacent phase. What this will mean is that when that
> coil has a full magnetic field, the water capacitor
> will also have a correspondingly high electric field.
> We are essentially placing the electric field from one
> phase of resonance, inside the space orthogonally of
> another phase of resance that will concurrently have
> its energy expression being made as a magnetic field.
> for that situation to be ideal the resonances should
> be 90 degrees out of phase instead of 120 degrees out
> of phase, as the present scenario entails. This is
> being tried as feasible in light of the almost
> impossible tuning requirements that are given in the
> first place. Only a few picofarads difference would
> determine whether or not the phases were 90 or 120
> degrees out of phase, because of the fact that the
> reactances are so high to begin with, and the job of
> supplying a cancelling reactancew for resonance than
> becomes a matter of very fine tuning. HDN
> > 
> > Hank
> > 
> > On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, harvey norris wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello Vortexians.
> > > I have run into a totally unexpected scenario in
> > > making current measurements of "Newman coil size"
> > air
> > > core inductors. 3 coils were attached in delta to
> > a
> > > delta to delta transformer being used in reverse,
> > as
> > > its original purpose was that of being a 10/1 step
> > > down transformer, and I am using it as a step up
> > > transformer attached to an AC converted alternator
> > > delivering 3 phase 481 hz. By measuring only a
> > delta
> > > line current from the triangle where that junction
> > was
> > > connected to two 60.1 henry coils, I had assumed
> > that
> > > equal currents would propagate from that node
> > since
> > > the inductance values were equal. It was then I
> > > noted,( by 1.7 reduction of delta line current)
> Measurements have also shown that a measurement of
> that supposed delta line does not correspond to 1.7 of
> the phase currents, and theat the secondaries of the
> transformer are not in delta, but in wye.
> > that
> > > the impedances for the coils would be 540,000 some
> > > ohms, far above the formula value of some 181,000
> > ohms
> > > for these 1000 ohm coils, where the resistance
> > itself
> > > is negligible on the impedance figures. However
> > the
> > > actual individually monitored phase currents have
> > > shown vast differences. Here is some data from my
> > > latest message board entry entitled:
> > > Coil Hoi Poloi/ False Data Gathering
> > > New tests at 600 volts were obtained by a more
> > maximum
> > > alternator field enabled by the 4 fold
> > (transformer
> > > before rectification) reduction of a 30-33 volt
> > variac
> > > input. All three phases amperages were measured
> > > numerous times. The coil specs again were
> > >   ~600 volts, 481 hz
> > > Coil 1  60.1 henry conducts 1.55 ma
> > > Coil 2  57.9 henry conducts 2.15 ma
> > > Coil 3   60.1 henry conducts .56 ma!
> > > 
> > > The only coil that seems to be doing a job of
> > > approximating reality is coil 2. Let us then
> > determine
> > > its acting impedance with this 600 volt input. As
> > > always with high induction coils the impedance can
> > be
> > > approximated to be = to the inductive reactance
> > X(L),
> > > as the effects of resistance are neglible.
> > > V=IZ or Z=V/I= 600/.00215= 279,069 ohms.
> > > For coil 1 600/.00155= 387,000 ohms.
> > > Those variances should be impossible as coils 1
> > and 2
> > > are in virgin condition from Magnetek. There must
> > be
> > > another problem here! Coil 3 has a Z value of
> > > 600/.00055 = 1,090,090 ohms! This was the delta
> > line
> > > corner next to the 387,000 ohm value where that
> > delta
> > > line amperge consumption than averaged each
> > reactance
> > > to be the mistaken 541,000 ohm value.
> > > 
> > > Needless to say I have no idea, except the
> > possibility
> > > of shorted winds inside the coil to be causing
> > these
> > > vast impedance differences, and it really throws a
> > > monkeywrench into this experimentation which
> > > ordinarily
> > > requires all three values to be equal. The coils
> > are
> > > only about 4 inches in space apart from each
> > other,
> > > and the effects of mutual inductance between
> > phases
> > > thought to be miniscule for air core coils.
> > Perhaps
> > > this is untrue. HDN
> > > 
> > > 
> > > =====
> > > Binary Resonant System 
> > http://members3.boardhost.com/teslafy/
> > > 
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
> > with Yahoo! Messenger
> > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost.com/teslafy/
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 11:46:30 2001
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From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Frederick
	What are you accelerating here? As posed you have an electrostatic
situation.

Hank



On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Frederick Sparber wrote:

> A quick way to find the Accelerated Frame Time Dilation
> (gamma) and it's relevance to the ratio of the Electromagnetic Force to the Gravity
> Force at unit separation:
> 
> Electrostatic Force between 2 electrons at 1.0 meter separation:
> 
> Fes =  kq^2/r^2 = 2.304E-28  (newtons)
> 
> Gravity Force between two electrons at 1.0 meter separation:
> 
> Fg = 6.67E-11*9.1E-31^2 =  5.523E-71 (newtons)
> 
> [Fes/Fg]^1/2 = 2.04E21
> 
> This is the accelerated frame time-dilation gamma responsible for the Gravity Force.
> 
> For two Protons at unit separation the accelerated frame time-dilation gamma is
> 1.1E18.
> 
> Regards,    Frederick
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 13:29:59 2001
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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:37:41 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Eyewitness Accounts of Tunguska Impact
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>Check out http://www.psi.edu/projects/siberia/siberia.html for accounts
>which seem to uniformly describe an object entering the atmosphere from
>space. --MJ
>________________

excellent posting Mitchell

What do you think about the Aetherometics website?

>Quote of the month:
>
>"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
>in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
>than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

Now if you can just figure out when this bubble is going to collapse, 
so I can go short on the market.


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----- Original Message -----
From: "hank scudder" <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>; <jlsparber@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Gravity Force and Accelerated Frame Time Dilation

Hank Scudder wrote:


> Frederick
> What are you accelerating here? As posed you have an electrostatic
> situation.

I'm not accelerating anything, Hank, Mother Nature is.  :-)

If you visualize the Fundamental Particles (and Leptons)in a nucleus as Wave-Circles
or String-Circles with charge flow circling around them at Speed of Light c, according
to GR this is an Accelerated Frame, and Time-Dilation kicks in. With these "Current
Loops" with current I = q/t
(undilated t = 2(pi)r/c) then dilated t, (t') increases by a
factor of 1.1E18 to 2E21 making current, I drop accordingly.
Hence the weak gravity field between particles. see below.
Regards,   Frederick
>
> Hank
>
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>
> > A quick way to find the Accelerated Frame Time Dilation
> > (gamma) and it's relevance to the ratio of the Electromagnetic Force to the
Gravity
> > Force at unit separation:
> >
> > Electrostatic Force between 2 electrons at 1.0 meter separation:
> >
> > Fes =  kq^2/r^2 = 2.304E-28  (newtons)
> >
> > Gravity Force between two electrons at 1.0 meter separation:
> >
> > Fg = 6.67E-11*9.1E-31^2 =  5.523E-71 (newtons)
> >
> > [Fes/Fg]^1/2 = 2.04E21
> >
> > This is the accelerated frame time-dilation gamma responsible for the Gravity
Force.
> >
> > For two Protons at unit separation the accelerated frame time-dilation gamma is
> > 1.1E18.
> >
> > Regards,    Frederick
> >
>

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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:43:31 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Eyewitness Accounts of Tunguska Impact
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>Mitchell Jones wrote:
>
>>Check out http://www.psi.edu/projects/siberia/siberia.html for accounts
>>which seem to uniformly describe an object entering the atmosphere from
>>space. --MJ
>>________________

Thomas Malloy wrote:

>excellent posting Mitchell
>
>What do you think about the Aetherometics website?

***{My first impression: a Mulligan's stew of undefined neologisms and
oracular pronouncements. I searched about for awhile, trying to get find
something specific, and finally gave up. (If anyone found anything there
that seemed worth reading, please tell me where it was.) --MJ}***

[snip]
________________
Quote of the month:

"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 20:12:02 2001
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Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 22:16:18 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Paradox  NOT!
In-Reply-To: <LAW2-F102gxapzhad2V00003200 hotmail.com>
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At 10:49 AM 8/1/01 -0500, you wrote:

>Ah, but this formula only applies to a single coil, by the calculations 
>previous two 1H coils in parralel have an inductance of 500 mH and then if 
>those two coils are put in series with another pair, the inductance 
>becomes 1H again.  Likewise the resistance of the four series-parralel 
>coils is equivalent to the original coil.  Each coil has 1/2 the original 
>current so with 4 coils you have 2*the original amp-turns, creating twice 
>the flux/ flux density

This is not true.  In order to distance the coils so that they do not 
interact you will have 4 separate instances of 1/2 the ampere 
turns.  Should the 4 coils be alloud to interact then you no longer have 4 
coils but 1 coil of a bazaar configuration.

See the same publication if available (ARRL Amateur Radio Handbook 1953) 
the section following the inductance formulas discusses interaction of 
coils.  You can also find help at your public librarry under "inductance" 
"Magnetic circuits" "Network Theorems" and  "Transformers"

>It seems very strange that there should be a formula for calculating 
>inductance which is not applicable in the situation it seems designed for 
>ie calculating the total inductance of a sries-parralel arrangement of coils.

The provided formula was for a single coil (showing the square 
relationship)  When the coils begin to interact that square relationship 
will return.  Look up "Mutual inductance"

This is not a paradox but rather a well practiced and time tested method of 
modifying electrical and magnetic behavior. These methods are used 
everyday.  Television, Radio
  Cellular "digital",  Land wire telephone,  Electrical utility and even 
your computer monitor.  All of these use LCR networking methods to enhance 
performance.



_________________________________________________________
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Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 20:15:14 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vast Impedance Differences for 60 Henry coils   481 hz
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At 11:23 AM 8/1/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks for the information. One point of clarification- In a parallel
>resonant circuit, the current in the capacitor is 180 degrees out of phase
>with the current through the inductor. Also a three phase transformer can
>be either wye or delta connected, and the secondary can be different then
>the primary. If the loads on the circuit are balanced three phase loads,
>the currents or voltages will be 120 degrees out of phase. If they are not
>balanced, the analysis of the circuit is much harder, you have to apply
>Kirchoff's laws carefully to see what is actually happening.
>
>Hank

Check the thread "Magnetic paradox"  there is some info there that you 
might find usefull.


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  1 23:43:11 2001
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From: "Thomas D. Clark" <rhf rhfweb.com>
To: "vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>, "prj" <prj@mail.msen.com>
Cc: "Thomas D. Clark" <tom rhfweb.com>
Subject: A practical future scenario to save the Earth!
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 00:14:21 -0700
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A practical future scenario to save the Earth!

I have enclosed below an email that I sent, which explains 
a practical future scenario to save the Earth from the use 
of directed energies and other social and environmental 
problems:

Dear Nick:

I spent some more time thinking about Tesla and alternative
futures for earth today, and I developed a practical future
scenario which may solve the problems Tesla was trying to
solve and some the problems you presented to me in the
Stewart email. I would like to explain the future scenario below:
I also would like to thank you for brining these matters to my
attention

It seems to me that Tesla's goal was to legitimize alternative
energy technologies and radiant energy technologies publicly so
that the technologies would be used in an ethical and productive
manner for all world citizens. Since he did not succeed in his
day, then such technologies were classified and misused by
secret organizations in an unethical and nonproductive manner.
To resolve these problems today, one only needs to present the
details of Tesla technologies to the congresses of the free world
such as the congress of the United States, and the House of
Commons in the UK officially. Once these technologies become
official congressional documents, then the congress can regulate
their ethical and productive use. I have already sent letters to
the U.S. congress and the House of Commons with the details
of Tesla Technologies so that they may become official and
reviewed by those congresses. I have found that t the
congresses are the closest bodies to the people, and represent the
best governmental bodies since they have many probability
scenarios for each congressman, and it makes it hard for mind
control technologies to control them. Also the congress is the
most visible governmental structure. Once congress legitimizes
the use of Tesla technologies, then congress can propose
safeguards for all governmental agencies and agents as well as
the general public. Security agencies would be set up to provide
each governmental agent such as each congress man their own
security force field in there home  and at work. Also each
government agent and congressman would have a health system
which they would operate themselves to scan their genetic and
other biological processes on a daily bases to protect their
personal physical and spiritual health and security. The privacy
force fields and health monitoring systems can also be provided
to the general public by security agencies to protect corporate
executive etc. Such systems are not to difficult to build I myself
am very close to understanding how to build such systems. Also
the congress would need its own set of satellites so that they can
monitor the activities of secret organizations, and military
organizations, to regulate and negotiate as official governmental
classified documents the threats that such secret organizations
may present to any world government and the general public. In
order to solve the problems of Jupiter and its become a Sun,
which may increase the temperatures on earth, there seems to
be a very simple answer. I have already have books on how to
use technologies such Tesla technologies, lasers, and so on to
modify the atmosphere of the earth, to filter out unwanted
radiation, artificial hostile directed energies, and excess heat
from solar objects. Even the planet Venus has a thick
atmosphere to protect the planet, which earth could develop
also . The last phase would be for the congresses of the planet
earth to negotiate with E.T's an ethical set of agreements as to
who shall control earth. I myself am not a very good negotiator
presently, since I have been biased by to much harassment from
directed energies to represent all the earth peoples and E.T's
fairly. I am presently very good as an ordinary citizen who has
the intelligence, and perseverance to present professional and
polite alternatives to congress and world governments which
they can not present to themselves due to corruption form
secret organizations. Since I am just a citizen, and I have no
friends or family, wealth, or prestige, I can easily ignore secret
organization threats and present professional documents to
congress which give them an opportunity to change the future
and look like the good guys as well. If you have an
recommendations to my ideas presented above please send me
an email. 

Respectfully:

Thomas Clark
personal web site: www.rhfweb.com\personal
email: tom rhfweb.com









From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 00:38:26 2001
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 <v04011701b78c96b9d71d [207.8.127.177]>
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Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 02:33:02 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Eyewitness Accounts of Tunguska Impact
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>
>
>Thomas Malloy wrote:
>  >
>>What do you think about the Aetherometics website?

and Mitchell Jones responded

>
>***{My first impression: a Mulligan's stew of undefined neologisms and
>oracular pronouncements. I searched about for awhile, trying to get find
>something specific, and finally gave up. (If anyone found anything there
>that seemed worth reading, please tell me where it was.) --MJ}***
>
>[snip]
>________________
Hum, you apparently didn't see the part about the motor that pulls 1 
KW out of the aether. Now I haven't witnessed this energy production, 
but the Correa's have three patents, and I do know what they cost. 
Apparently they believe that they have something worth protecting.

What I wanted to discuss with you is their claims to enhanced energy 
production. I'll finish reading their site and they write them a 
letter to see if I can get proof of what they have done.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 06:56:33 2001
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
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        "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>, <Ron.Brodzinski@pnl.gov>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Linear Stacking of String-Circle Groups
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Given that the Proton consists of 2 "up" or positive and 1 "down" or negative
String-Circle or "quark", and the Neutron consists of 2 "up" or positive and 2 "down"
or negative and a Antineutrino String-Circle or "quark", these can "stack" in linear
groups so that each Proton group is between Two Neutron Groups up to a certain
atomic weight after which there is a Neutron "Surplus":
0 = Neutron   (spin 1/2+)
+ = Proton     (spin 1/2+)

Deuteron   0+        (spin 1+)
Triton        0+0      (spin 1/2+)
He3           +0+     (spin 3/2-)
He4          0+0+    (spin 0+)
Li6            0+0+0+  (spin 3/2-)
Li7            0+0+0+0 (spin 3/2-)

Up to Iron, things get more stable, but after that the 0/+ ratio gets larger and
things get unstable.


Thus, for 92U238 there are 146 0's and 92 +'s which
implies a "wrapping" of the surplus neutrons or are there
groups of linear stacks making up this "unstable" nucleus?

Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 09:08:36 2001
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From: "Adam Cox" <merlyn_x hotmail.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Paradox NOT!
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 11:04:32 -0500
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OK, I get you.
But if they are isolated from each other you still have four filed each 
equal to 1/2 the original field from a source which appears to the 
electrical circuit to be identical (except for some increased wiring to the 
coils) to the original.

Although I can't quite see how I can use this in any appropriate way.

Sigh, Oh well
Merlyn

_________________________________________________________________
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 10:16:19 2001
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 <v04011701b78c96b9d71d [207.8.127.177]>
 <v04011701b78c96b9d71d [207.8.127.177]>
 <v04011700b78e3c99edb2 [207.8.127.234]>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:26:51 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Eyewitness Accounts of Tunguska Impact
Resent-Message-ID: <"fArdr.0.Jf.meOQx" mx1>
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>>
>>
>>Thomas Malloy wrote:
>>  >
>>>What do you think about the Aetherometics website?
>
>and Mitchell Jones responded
>
>>
>>***{My first impression: a Mulligan's stew of undefined neologisms and
>>oracular pronouncements. I searched about for awhile, trying to get find
>>something specific, and finally gave up. (If anyone found anything there
>>that seemed worth reading, please tell me where it was.) --MJ}***
>>
>>[snip]
>>________________
>Hum, you apparently didn't see the part about the motor that pulls 1
>KW out of the aether.

***{Correct. I read down through the Niagra of words in the first four
sections, in order as the authors advised, and stopped when I came to the
part entitled "Letters of Support." At that point I noted that I had not
yet read a single sentence which provided any insight into anything, and I
asked myself whether I thought it possible that anyone with a non-mediocre
intellect would be able to say nothing in that many words. The answer was
no, so I gave up. --MJ}***

Now I haven't witnessed this energy production,
>but the Correa's have three patents, and I do know what they cost.
>Apparently they believe that they have something worth protecting.

***{Dangerous reasoning. There are tens of thousands of patents that aren't
worth the paper they are printed on, by the standards of industry, yet were
paid for in hard-earned money by an inventor who deluded himself into
thinking his idea was important. In most cases, the unadmitted goal was
simply to obtain the patent, so he could acquire the status of "inventor,"
with its built-in implication that his intellect was above the norm. When
patents are acquired in this way, for this purpose, they are merely an
extremely expensive form of "vanity publishing," and are indicative of
mediocrity, not achievement. --MJ}***

>What I wanted to discuss with you is their claims to enhanced energy
>production. I'll finish reading their site and they write them a
>letter to see if I can get proof of what they have done.

***{I will be happy to discuss it with you, if you can point me to
something substantive--i.e., something that gives enough details so that we
can attempt a reasoned evaluation. --MJ}***
________________
Quote of the month:

"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 10:17:08 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Nature Contents: 2 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6846 pp. 463 -
568
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:30:00 -0400
From: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>
Reply-To: Customer Service <tocreplies appserver5.nature.com>
To: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>

Nature - Table of Contents
Now available at http://www.nature.com/nature/

Visit Nature online to browse the content of the current issue,
including articles, letters to Nature, brief communications
and web extras.

Please note that you need to be a subscriber to enjoy full text
access to Nature online. To purchase a subscription, please visit
http://www.nature.com/nature/subscribe/

Nature Contents: 02 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6846
(c)Copyright 2001 Macmillan Publishers Ltd

=====================================================================
The content listing below carries links to abstracts
=====================================================================

---------------------
letters to Nature
---------------------
Ground-based observation of emission lines from the corona of a
red-dwarf star
J H M M SCHMITT & R WICHMANN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412508a0_fs.html

Evidence for ubiquitous strong electron--phonon coupling in
high-temperature superconductors
A LANZARA, P V BOGDANOV, X J ZHOU, S A KELLAR, D L FENG, E D LU,
T YOSHIDA, H EISAKI, A FUJIMORI, K KISHIO, J-I SHIMOYAMA, T NODA,
S UCHIDA, Z HUSSAIN & Z-X SHEN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412510a0_fs.html

Fragile-to-strong transition and polyamorphism in the energy
landscape of liquid silica
I SAIKA-VOIVOD, P H POOLE & F SCIORTINO
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412514a0_fs.html

Growth dynamics of pentacene thin films
F-J MEYER ZU HERINGDORF, M C REUTER & R M TROMP
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412517a0_fs.html

Ionic conductivity in crystalline polymer electrolytes
Z GADJOUROVA, Y G ANDREEV, D P TUNSTALL & P G BRUCE
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412520a0_fs.html

Covariation of carbon dioxide and temperature from the Vostok ice
core after deuterium-excess correction
K M CUFFEY & F VIMEUX
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412523a0_fs.html

Chemical interaction of Fe and Al2O3 as a source of heterogeneity at 
the Earth's core--mantle boundary
L DUBROVINSKY, H ANNERSTEN, N DUBROVINSKAIA, F WESTMAN, H HARRYSON,
O FABRICHNAYA & S CARLSON
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412527a0_fs.html

The last of the dinosaur titans: a new sauropod from Madagascar
K CURRY ROGERS & C A FORSTER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412530a0_fs.html

Neanderthal cranial ontogeny and its implications for late hominid
diversity
M S PONCE DE LEÓN & C P E ZOLLIKOFER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412534a0_fs.html

Habitat structure and population persistence in an experimental
community
S P ELLNER, E MCCAULEY, B E KENDALL, C J BRIGGS, P R HOSSEINI,
S N WOOD, A JANSSEN, M W SABELIS, P TURCHIN, R M NISBET & W W MURDOCH
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412538a0_fs.html

The end of world population growth
W LUTZ, W SANDERSON & S SCHERBOV
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412543a0_fs.html

Retrospective and prospective coding for predicted reward in the
sensory thalamus
Y KOMURA, R TAMURA, T UWANO, H NISHIJO, K KAGA & T ONO
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412546a0_fs.html

Practising orientation identification improves orientation coding in
V1 neurons
A SCHOUPS, R VOGELS, N QIAN & G ORBAN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412549a0_fs.html

Regulation of DNA replication fork progression through damaged DNA by
the Mec1/Rad53 checkpoint
J A TERCERO & J F X DIFFLEY
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412553a0_fs.html

The DNA replication checkpoint response stabilizes stalled
replication forks
M LOPES, C COTTA-RAMUSINO, A PELLICIOLI, G LIBERI, P PLEVANI,
M MUZI-FALCONI, C S NEWLON & M FOIANI
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412557a0_fs.html

Rb targets histone H3 methylation and HP1 to promoters
S J NIELSEN, R SCHNEIDER, U-M BAUER, A J BANNISTER, A MORRISON,
D O'CARROLL, R FIRESTEIN, M CLEARY, T JENUWEIN, R E HERRERA
& T KOUZARIDES
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412561a0_fs.html

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Maternal investment: Sex differences in avian yolk hormone levels
M PETRIE, H SCHWABL, N BRANDE-LAVRIDSEN & T BURKE
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412498a0_fs.html

reply : Maternal investment: Sex differences in avian yolk hormone
        levels
E J A CUNNINGHAM & A F RUSSELL
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412498b0_fs.html

Ecology: Global amphibian population declines
R A ALFORD, P M DIXON & J H K PECHMANN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412499a0_fs.html

reply: Ecology: Global amphibian population declines
J E HOULAHAN, C S FINDLAY, A H MEYER, S L KUZMIN & B R SCHMIDT
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6846/abs/412500a0_fs.html

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 11:56:31 2001
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Message-ID: <004701c11b7c$1c070000$a1b4bfa8 computer>
From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <jlsparber earthlink.net>, <GESREBSPAR@aol.com>,
        "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>,
        "Brodzinski, Ronald L" <ron.brodzinski pnl.gov>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <4BD77F529DE81544ADB8CFE58EA7E2E9D1666C pnlmse15.pnl.gov>
Subject: Re: Linear Stacking of String-Circle Groups
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 12:53:38 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brodzinski, Ronald L" <ron.brodzinski pnl.gov>
To: "'Frederick Sparber'" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: Linear Stacking of String-Circle Groups

Agreed. That is why the String-Circle Model implies
that the 5A - 2Z  "circles" in any nucleus,

2A "up" or Positive    (spin 1/2+)
2A - Z  "down" or Negative  (spin 1/2-)
  A - Z    Antineutrinos  (spin 1/2+?)

align the way nature wants them to, to form a linear group
even if adjacent "circles" have the same charge which is
overcome by the Strong Force (the cancellation of the repulsive coulomb force in
compliance with Relativistic Electrodynamics).
String-Superstring Theory states that the circles are "length only" entities that
"have no width" thus you can stack a lot of them in a short distance.

This allows the close tie between the Strong Force and the Gravity Force developed by
each nucleon.

Regards,    Frederick


> You can't get a spin of 3/2- for Li6 by your formalism.
>
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frederick Sparber [mailto:fjsparber earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:38 AM
> To: jlsparber earthlink.net; GESREBSPAR@aol.com; Francis J. Stenger;
> Brodzinski, Ronald L
> Cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: Linear Stacking of String-Circle Groups
>
>
> Given that the Proton consists of 2 "up" or positive and 1 "down" or negative
> String-Circle or "quark", and the Neutron consists of 2 "up" or positive and 2
> "down"
> or negative and a Antineutrino String-Circle or "quark", these can "stack" in
> linear
> groups so that each Proton group is between Two Neutron Groups up to a certain
> atomic weight after which there is a Neutron "Surplus":
> 0 = Neutron   (spin 1/2+)
> + = Proton     (spin 1/2+)
>
> Deuteron   0+        (spin 1+)
> Triton        0+0      (spin 1/2+)
> He3           +0+     (spin 3/2-)
> He4          0+0+    (spin 0+)
> Li6            0+0+0+  (spin 3/2-)
> Li7            0+0+0+0 (spin 3/2-)
>
> Up to Iron, things get more stable, but after that the 0/+ ratio gets larger and
> things get unstable.
>
>
> Thus, for 92U238 there are 146 0's and 92 +'s which
> implies a "wrapping" of the surplus neutrons or are there
> groups of linear stacks making up this "unstable" nucleus?
>
> Regards,    Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 13:33:21 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
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Subject: Fw: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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----- Original Message -----
From: William Lyne <billlyne earthlink.net>
To: Dr. Jack Sarfatti <sarfatti well.com>; Remy C. <remyc@prodigy.net>; 'Dan
Sheehan' <deepers2 aol.com>
Cc: To: "John L. Petersen" <johnp arlingtoninstitute.org>;
<oleary maui.net>; "David Crockett Williams" <gear2000@lightspeed.net>;
"Patrick Bailey" <pgb padrak.com>; "Hal Fox" <halfox@qwest.net>; Mallove"
<editor infinite-energy.com>; "Bruce Meland" <etimes@teleport.com>; "Scott
Littleton" <yokatta oxy.edu>; "Alex Burns" <alex@disinfo.com>; Alexander"
<apollinair aol.com>; "Norio Hayakawa" <Norio1944@aol.com>; Zukav"
<gary zukav.com>; "Dr. Steven Greer" <DR_ET@compuserve.com>; Jack Sarfatti"
<sarfatti well.com>; "Dick Farley" <CloudRider@aol.com>; "Stephen Bassett"
<ParadigmRG aol.com>; <billlyne@earthlink.net>; "Joe Firmage"
<joe onecosmos.net>; <edgarmitchell@email.msn.com>; "Neil Freer"
<neil neilfreer.com>; Nalepa" <steve@di
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich


> HOW TO HAVE A REAL REVOLUTION WITHOUT FIRING A DAMNED SHOT
>
> Throw out ALL the covert government-created red herrings----"alien"
> fantasies, manipulators from "hyperspace", "alien UFOs", Pseudo-Skeptics,
> Pseudo-Paranormalists, "manipulators from secret mystery schools", all
forms
> of imagined "aliens" ("greys", "reptilians", "Plaeidians", etc., etc., ad
> nauseum), Cargo-Cults, religious fanatics, ancient agendas, New-Age dupes,
> Aryan Nations nuts, Blavatsky-ites, Synergists, Urantians, Christians,
> Communists, Enviro-Fascists, Zionists, Neo-Nazis, Neo-New-Dealers,
> Neo-Bolsheviks, Russian Mafia phobics, Yah-Weh-ites, Muslim terrorists,
> space-weapons bullshit, hyperspace bullshit, remote viewing bullshit,
etc.,
> etc., and whaddaya have? The Global NWO keeping its power by suckering in
> people with RED HERRINGS which have nothing to do with the issue:
> Are we to remain as energy-slaves to the global NWO bunch, or are we going
> to deball them and realize that UFOs are man's greatest invention, the
most
> important secret of the International NWO, and that all the RED HERRINGS
do
> is lead the so-called "alternative" thinkers---who should be leading the
> public out of, not into the shit---astray, into myriads of meaningless
> eddy-currents which neutralize energy which should be directed at the
> jugular vein of the NWO, the truth about man-made UFOs and other free
energy
> technology. VIVA LA REVOLUCION' TECHNOLOGIA!
> William Lyne
>
> >
> > "Remy C." wrote:
> >
> > > [Watch me make a mud pie! Rem]
> > >
> > > Dear Jack,
> > > First of all Jack, I think you miss the point and that you are making
> much
> > > more of all this than there is.
> > > Who gives a flying cracker if Greer likes to hug little green alien.
> That's
> > > NOT what is interesting about the Disclosure Project!
> >
> > Remy, you are a self-admitted completely clueless technical ignoramus,
> also a
> > classic dupe of phony agit prop by the notorious Pied Pipers Danny
Sheehan
> & Co,
> > who has no understanding of what you are talking about when it comes to
> science
> > re: zero point energy - neither do Danny and Steve Greer. It's not that
> you
> > disagree with my answer, you do not even understand the question!
> >
> > What IS THE ISSUE here is:
> >
> > The phony linking of the TRUFO issue
> > http://brumac.8k.com
> > http://ufoskeptic.org/
> > http://www.nidsci.org/
> >
> > With anti-Bush "BAN SPACE WEAPONS" and the call to arms by the old KGB
net
> to
> > sabotage the American Military with mass demonstrations on Oct 13, 2001
as
> in
> > http://www.space4peace.org
> >
> > My advice to President Bush is to round up the usual suspects BEFORE Oct
> 13 and
> > put them on trial for treason in some cases. I would also suggest that
> President
> > Bush telephone his friend President Putin and ask for some mounted
Cossack
> > Cavalry with drawn sabers carrying the Imperial Flag of Czarist Russia.
> :-)
> >
> > That's my advice as DAI. :-)
> >
> > > That's just a
> > > side-show. The meat is pressuring Black Ops to release their grip on
> secret
> > > energy technologies that can, and should be de-classified to restore
> > > ecological balance.
> >
> > This is complete HOGWASH! That's what I am telling you as a physicist
you
> idiot!
> > That is a complete delusion used by the Puppet Masters on Cannon Fodder
on
> you
> > Marching Morons. So don't complain when the Cossacks swoop down on you.
> There is
> > no such secret energy technology you damn fool. That simply a HUGE PILE
OF
> > MACROSHIFT from the Club of Transylvania to get you fools all fired up
to
> take
> > to the streets on October 13, 2001 in a world wide mass hysteria attack
on
> the
> > US Military as called for in http://www.space4peace.org
> >
> > > The rest is just media hoopla swirled up to get air play
> > > in these tabloid times. If you Jack, were really interested in getting
> to
> > > the bottom of what government labs are really working on,
> >
> > I know exactly what the government labs are working on you moron! There
is
> no
> > one on this planet who knows more about this than me. I am telling you
> that what
> > Sheehan & Co are firing you up about is a crock of macroshift! It was
> Sheehan
> > who sabotaged State of the World Forum 1999 with globs of Cargo Cult
> macroshift
> > psycho-babble with that kook Brian Flannagan, another kook on color
spiral
> > dynamics et-al - it was clueless lame and pathetic. I was there and
> Sheehan
> > broke his word to me, not that I was surprised of course.
> >
> > > you'd focus on
> > > that aspect of the movement, and yes, dare I call it a movement,
instead
> of
> > > yelling and shouting Macroshit like some out of whack automaton at
> > > Disneyworld. Sure, you know, I know, everybody with half a brain knows
> > > "religion" is no substitute for knowledge and science. But there's a
> > > populace out there who doesn't grasp the deeper issues. Just look at
Jay
> > > Leno interviewing folks on the street. They don't even know who the
> > > Vice-President is half the time. Yes, this is probably ALL
> disinformation on
> > > the part of Greer, and stupid new agey Cargo Cult on the part of your
> dear
> > > old bud Zukav. But don't you think they are only trying to package it
in
> a
> > > way that can translate to a wider audience who sits at home watching
> Touched
> > > By An Angel? And YES, the fear is that this sort of thing can
degenerate
> > > into a new breed of gentle Hitlerism. Except today, in 2001, I think
the
> > > globe has had its fill with zealots and dictators. Hell, the US
> population
> > > is so afraid of any leadership these days, it can't even elect a half
> way
> > > decent and intelligent president! Tell me Bush Jr isn't a complete
utter
> > > total goof ball? I think the days of Gore Vidal's synthetic Christ and
> of
> > > Reagan rumored to be orchestrating the Apocalypse of St John in
> Hollywood,
> > > are over and done with. The Uniform Product Code is NOT the mark of
the
> > > Beast! It's just an easier way to keep track of goods and services.
> Nobody
> > > is being forced to get their forehead tattooed unless they wanna! Get
> over
> > > the Christian meme Jack, OK? Humanity is set on survival mode. We need
> > > techno-fix to repair the damage we have done and are still doing to
our
> life
> > > support system. That's why I'm interested in YOU Sarfatti, because
your
> > > theories, according to some, hold the key to some solutions. But
instead
> of
> > > railing on all these other folks out there trying to create enough of
an
> > > online community to generate the momentum necessary to get at the
bottom
> of
> > > the secrecy issue, as laid out comprehensively in Senator Moynihan's
> book,
> > > you seem intent on seeding discontent. You are no better than a
SPECTRE
> > > agent acting on behalf of those who would rather divide and conquer
than
> > > finally reach consensus, that could eventually lead to Congressional
> > > Hearings. This is STILL a democracy last I looked, isn't? We need
Carter
> to
> > > jump into the pool. He did after all file a UFO sightings report. The
> > > Disclosure Project should be lobbying him. It should all be about
> conflict
> > > resolution, not perpetuating this BORING infighting within the UFO/FE
> > > community over petty details of vernacular and interpretation which
ONLY
> > > plays to the advantage of those who for decades would rather have us,
as
> a
> > > species, never get our hands on the energy technologies YOU Sarfatti,
> and
> > > everybody else on this little thread I just created, want to "invent"
> for
> > > ourselves! Why do you really want to build space weapons Jack? For the
> > > commission? Or because you think the program will eventually fund the
> > > technology necessary to make Star Trek real? Isn't that a desperate
way
> to
> > > go about it? Isn't that like giving a child a bazooka so you can
> distract
> > > him long enough to steal his chewing gum?
> >
> > Wow. Are you finished with this rant. Do you feel better now? Take some
> prozac
> > or something.
> >
> > Meantime, let this be a warning from Sarfatti, stay off the streets Oct
> 13,
> > 2001. Do not answer the phony call of http://www.space4peace.org. This
> ain't the
> > 60's anymore.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Remy C.
> > > http://www.endsecrecy.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dr. Jack Sarfatti" <sarfatti well.com>
> > > To: <yokatta oxy.edu>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 8:41 PM
> > > Subject: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
> > >
> > > Good statement for the record!
> > >
> > > yokatta oxy.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jack recently had occasion to observe that "We cannot face the Alien
> Raj
> > > > with Cargo Cult Science!"  I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly!
> > > >
> > > > What Jack calls "Cargo Cult Science," such as Greer's alien-hugging
> > > > fantasies, the notion that the little creatures are our
> > > > spiritually-evolved "space-brothers,"
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, my well-meaning inexperienced young friend, Joe
Firmage,
> has
> > > been bamboozled by this Trojan Horse Macroshift Psycho-Babble.
> > >
> > > There are two distinct issues that should not be garbled and
associated
> with
> > > each other.
> > >
> > > 1. The TRUFO Phenomenon.
> > >
> > > My position: Michio Kaku's "Masters of Hyperspace" are here, have been
> here
> > > for some time manipulating our history and evolution. They are diverse
> with
> > > varying motives, not all of them are friendly - some are. I have
reason
> to
> > > believe that CIA legend, James Jesus Angleton, was very concerned
about
> > > this.
> > >
> > > 2. Bush Missile Defense and "Ban Space Weapons" Old Left Anti-American
> > > Movement.
> > >
> > > Danny Sheehan, of anti-Iran/Contra Christic Institute era -> Esalen ->
> > > Gorbachev Foundation -> State of the World Forum -> Steven Greer "UFO
> > > Disclosure" bringing 3rd Reich "Operation Paper Clip" Werner Von Braun
> from
> > > his grave to "Ban Space Weapons", is obviously an enormous pile of
> > > "Macroshift" (new book by Cargo Cult operative Erwin Lazlo of "The
Club
> of
> > > Budapest" with commentary by Gary Zukav and Arthur C Clarke who was
> > > bamboozled
> > > to contribute).
> > >
> > > These Ban Space Weapons Marching Morons, mere Cannon Fodder to their
> Puppet
> > > Masters, plan to disrupt US Military on Oct 13, 2001. Where is General
> Mac
> > > Arthur when we need him? :-) They have called to arms:
> > >
> > > "OCTOBER 13 ACTION SITES
> > >
> > >  1) Adelaide, Australia
> > >  2) Aerojet (Sacramento, CA)
> > >  3) Albuquerque, N.M.
> > >  4) Ann Arbor, MI
> > >  5) Arcata, CA
> > >  6) Bad Aibling, Germany  (U.S. Signals Intelligence Base)
> > >  7) Beale AFB (CA)
> > >  8) Berlin, Germany
> > >  9) Boeing (Seattle, WA)
> > >  10) Boeing (Mukilteo, WA)
> > >  11)  Boston, MA (Oct 3 - "Common Security-Don't Arm the Heavens"
> > >  panel) 12)  Boston, MA (Oct 10 - Vigil at Park Tree Subway station)
> > >  13)  Burlington, VT 14)  Cape Cod Air Station, MA (Pave Paws Radar
> > >  Facility) 15)  Chicago, IL 16)  Cleveland State University (Keep
Space
> > >  for Peace Conference) 17)  Damascus, Syria 18)  Dhaka, Bangladesh 19)
> > >  Edwards AFB  (California) 20)  Ellsworth AFB (South Dakota) 21)
> > >  Federal Building (Des Moines, IA) 22)  Fairbanks, Alaska 23)
> > >  Fayetteville, AR 24)  Ft Meade, MD (National Security Agency HQ) 25)
> > >  Fylingdales, England  (BMD Radar Facility) 26)  Huntsville, Alabama
> > >  27)  Kennedy Space Center (Titusville, Florida) 28)  Kodiak, Alaska
> > >  29)  Leicester, England 30)  Lockheed Martin (Eagan, MN) 31)
Lockheed
> > >  Martin (Moorestown, NJ) 32)  Lockheed Martin (Sunnyvale, CA) 33)
> > >  Lockheed Martin (Valley Forge, PA) 34)  Mankato, MN 35)  Menwith
Hill,
> > >  England  (BMD Ground Relay Station) 36)  Mexico City, Mexico 37)
> > >  Nagpur, India 38)  Nevada Test Site (Sunrise Service) 39)  New Haven,
> > >  CT 40)  New York, N.Y. (Wall St. - Oct 12) 41)  Olympia, WA 42)  Pax
> > >  Christi USA 43)  Perth, Australia 44)  Peterson AFB (Colorado
Springs,
> > >  CO) 45)  Philadelphia, PA 46)  Phoenix, AZ 47)  Portland, Maine 48)
> > >  Port Louis, Mauritius 49)  Raytheon (Andover, MA - Oct 12) 50)
> > >  Raytheon (Tucson, AZ) 51)  Saintes, France 52)  Salt Lake City, Utah
> > >  53)  San Francisco, CA 54)  Seoul, Korea (Oct 11-13) 55)  Stennis
> > >  Missile Testing Center (Mississippi) 56)  St Louis, MO 57)  Subase
> > >  Bangor (WA) 58)  Takoma Park, MD (City Hall) 59)  TRW HQ (Cleveland,
> > >  OH - Oct 12 & 14) 60)  USAF Feltwell (Norfolk, England) 61)  USAF
> > >  Lakenheath (Suffolk, England) 62)  U.S. Consulate (Perth, Australia -
> > >  Oct 12) 63)  U.S. Embassy (Accra, Ghana) 64)  U.S. Embassy
(Bucharest,
> > >  Romania) 65)  U.S. Embassy (London, England) 66)  U.S. Embassy
> > >  (Stockholm, Sweden) 67)  U.S. Embassy (Vienna, Austria) 68)  U.S.
> > >  Embassy (Wellington, Aotearoa/New Zealand) 69)  Victoria, Canada 70)
> > >  Vandenberg AFB  (California) 71)  White Sands Missile Test Range,
N.M.
> > >  72)  Winnipeg, Manitoba (Canada)
> > >
> > >  Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space
> > >  PO Box 90083
> > >  Gainesville, FL. 32607
> > >  (352) 337-9274
> > >  http://www.space4peace.org
> > >  globalnet mindspring.com"
> > >
> > > I am not saying there should not be sober debate on Space Weapons.
> > > Astronaut,
> > > Edgar Mitchell has made some good points against them. However, mob
> action
> > > against US Military is quite another thing -- we have seen this before
> in
> > > the
> > > 60's how Foreign Intelligence from America's enemies co-opts mass
> movements
> > > for their own agendas. This is happening again today. Who is really
> behind
> > > it?
> > > Who is paying Danny Sheehan?
> > >
> > > Back to Scott:
> > >
> > > > who have come here to lift us to a
> > > > "higher plain" (a la the Urantians referred to in a previous post),
or
> > > > improbable theories about who (or what) they are and/or how they
> manage to
> > > > get here, has no place in any serious discussion of the phenomena in
> > > > question, which MUST, IMHO, be approached as physically real AND
> > > > constituting a threat to the future of Homo Sapiens sapiens on this
> > > > planet--especially if David Jacobs is correct in his assessment of
the
> > > > Aliens' goals (or at least those of what appears to be the dominant
ET
> > > > faction).  That some of us have finally begun to sort the real
threat
> out
> > > > from a plethora of mythological reflections of the Alien Raj's
agenda
> > > > encoded in a variety of apocalyptic & eschatological texts, from the
> Book
> > > > of Revelations to the Icelandic Eddas and the Indic Mahabharata,
> renders
> > > > this imperative!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Scott
> > > >
> > > > C. SCOTT LITTLETON                     "Any sufficiently evolved
> > > > Professor of Anthropology              technology is
indistinguishable
> > > > Occidental College                     from magic."
> > > > Los Angeles, CA 90041                            --Arthur C. Clarke
> > > > TEL (323) 259-2759
> > > > FAX (323) 341-4969                     "I think we're property...."
> > > > http://www.oxy.edu/~yokatta/home.htm             --Charles Fort
> > >
> >
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 17:09:42 2001
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Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:16:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: What is the heaviest element?
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	Dear vo.,


	What is the heaviest natural element and the heaviest lab
madeelement, please?  Beside the mistaken 118 and 119...



			Thanks,


			John

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 17:37:51 2001
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John Schnurer wrote:
> 
>         Dear vo.,
> 
>         What is the heaviest natural element and the heaviest lab
> madeelement, please?  Beside the mistaken 118 and 119...
> 
>                         Thanks,
> 
>                         John

Hi,
According to the Reciprocal System of Dewey Larson,
the heaviest possible element is # 117, due to the
geometry of atoms,
it isn't possible to go beyond that,
see: http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/rs/links.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 18:39:06 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Linear Stacking of String-Circle Groups
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:03:05 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Frederick Sparber's message of Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:38:05
-0500:
[snip]
>Thus, for 92U238 there are 146 0's and 92 +'s which
>implies a "wrapping" of the surplus neutrons or are there
>groups of linear stacks making up this "unstable" nucleus?
[snip]
Hi Fred,

Take a look at Theodore M. Lach's document at my web address:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/checker.ppt.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 19:50:43 2001
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Subject: Re: Meters to detect gravitational waves & Tesla Radiant Energy
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ConexTom aol.com wrote:
> 
> Meters to detect gravitational waves & Tesla Radiant
> Energy
> 
> I have listed below the standard means of measuring
> gravity
> waves, and then lastly, the components of a
> hypothetical gravity
> wave measuring device for Tesla Radiant Energy.
> 
> There are many different types of meters that may be
> used to
> detect gravitational waves. I have listed some of
> them below

It wouldn't hurt to try, but I believe, and according
to Larson's Reciprocal System
of physics, you won't find any, because gravity
"propagates" at infinite speed
(it really doesn't propagate at all).

See http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/rs/links.htm
http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/bn/index.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 20:47:54 2001
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: Linear Stacking of String-Circle Groups

You wrote:


> In reply to  Frederick Sparber's message of Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:38:05
> -0500:
> [snip]
> >Thus, for 92U238 there are 146 0's and 92 +'s which
> >implies a "wrapping" of the surplus neutrons or are there
> >groups of linear stacks making up this "unstable" nucleus?
> [snip]
> Hi Fred,
> 
> Take a look at Theodore M. Lach's document at my web address:
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/checker.ppt.

It took a while to download it, but I can't access it. :-(

Fred
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  2 23:37:38 2001
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From: "Mattthew Rogers" <matt accelnet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: What is the heaviest element?
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:36:28 -0700
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"there are no such things as atoms" is a quote from dewy larson.

I love it when someone like you believes in blind faith a person who has no
thought processes based in reality ?

What a bunch of crap. Go read the past 50 years of science journals and go
talk to some Supercollider and Stellar Physicists.

Matthew Rogers

-----Original Message-----
From: hoyt eskimo.com [mailto:hoyt@eskimo.com]On Behalf Of Hoyt Stearns Jr.
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:29 PM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is the heaviest element?

John Schnurer wrote:
>
>         Dear vo.,
>
>         What is the heaviest natural element and the heaviest lab
> madeelement, please?  Beside the mistaken 118 and 119...
>
>                         Thanks,
>
>                         John

Hi,
According to the Reciprocal System of Dewey Larson,
the heaviest possible element is # 117, due to the
geometry of atoms,
it isn't possible to go beyond that,
see: http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/rs/links.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 01:28:23 2001
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From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
delusional stuff that you seem so fond of . I know I could put you into an
email kill file, but I don't see why I should be forced to go to that
trouble. Few here mind if off topic messages are posted every now and again
but NOT lengthy cross posts of crazy off topic exchanges between unknown
people. Anybody else agree with me?

Nick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 03:19:02 2001
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich

Nick Palmer wrote:


> Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
> delusional stuff that you seem so fond of . I know I could put you into an
> email kill file, but I don't see why I should be forced to go to that
> trouble. Few here mind if off topic messages are posted every now and again
> but NOT lengthy cross posts of crazy off topic exchanges between unknown
> people. Anybody else agree with me?

Yes!!!

Regards,   Frederick      
> 
> Nick
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 03:31:34 2001
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Mattthew Rogers wrote:
> 
> "there are no such things as atoms" is a quote from dewy larson.

Larson never said that. His theory of atoms is
sufficiently advanced to
calculate melting points, isotope lifetimes and other
physical and chemical properties
from fundamental principles.

> 
> I love it when someone like you believes in blind faith a person who has no
> thought processes based in reality ?
> 
> What a bunch of crap. Go read the past 50 years of science journals and go
> talk to some Supercollider and Stellar Physicists.
> 
> Matthew Rogers

>
> see: http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/rs/links.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 03:41:29 2001
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August 2, 2001

Vortes,

Coincident that you would ask. I was just browsing a textbook by H.
Semat, 1954. In it, he has a short discussion of the three radioactive
decay series. These are the Radium., Thorium, and the Actinide
series.Then he mentions the Neptunian series where the trans-uranium
elements Neptunium (93) and Plutonium )94) are involved.
I believe Uranium is generally accepted as the heaviest naturally
occuring element. Although radioactive, it has such a long half life
that it seems to have survived since the "Big Bang". But according to
Semat, small quantities of naturally occuring Neptunium and Plutonium
was found in Pitchblende. Neptunium has a half life of 2.14X10^6 years
and Plutonium of 8.2X10^7 uears. Interersting.
Now, as of the 76th edition of the CRC, element 109 (no Name at the
time) has been procuced with a half life of 3.4 seconds. This element is
the last on the list which has its characteristics detailed. There are
heavier ones but I do not know what details are known about them.

John Schnurer wrote:

>         What is the heaviest natural element and the heaviest lab
> madeelement, please?  Beside the mistaken 118 and 119...
>
>                         Thanks,
>
>                         John


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Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 05:30:06 -0500
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Undilated current loops:

I = q/t     

t = 2(pi)r/c

I = qc/2(pi)r      q = 1.6E-19,  c = 3.0E8   (constants)

String-Circle radius, r = kq^2/E     

kq^2 = 2.304E-28

Thus I*2(pi)r = qc   =  4.8E-11 (ampere-meters) 

Dilated current loops:

qc[kq^2/(G*m1*m2)]^1/2   (ampere-meters)

G = 6.67E-11

The magnetic force between two current loops:

Fm = 1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2  (newton)

M1 & M2 are in ampere-meters

Is it Friday yet?

Regards,    Frederick



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 05:40:20 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
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Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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I agree.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich


> Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
> delusional stuff that you seem so fond of . I know I could put you into an
> email kill file, but I don't see why I should be forced to go to that
> trouble. Few here mind if off topic messages are posted every now and
again
> but NOT lengthy cross posts of crazy off topic exchanges between unknown
> people. Anybody else agree with me?
>
> Nick
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 08:57:42 2001
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Subject: The Fatal Archetype which Humanity Must Overcome to Succeed in The Future!
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The Fatal Archetype which Humanity Must Overcome to
Succeed in The Future!

If one looks at every great civilization of earth, one may notice
an archetype that many great civilizations, world leaders, and
militaries of our past seem to have followed, which always leads
to the collapse of peaceful civilizations to a more primitive
state. The archetype is the following:

When any world leader, government, or military develops new
advanced technologies which ensures the success of complex
civilizations, the secret organizations of the world convince the
leaders of the civilization that in order to keep their power, they
must revert back to a primitive state, classify the technologies
and keep them secret, and adopt unethical ruthless leadership
policies. And in every case, the world leaders that follow this
archetype, lose their power and the civilization collapses and
goes back to a primitive state. 

The reasons that the world leaders believe and follow the above
archetype, is that our psyche has been hypnotized by past secret
organizations which intended to doom the success of the future
of the earth, by promoting the false belief that in order to obtain
and maintain  complex power structures and success,  one must
also resurrect contradictory evil and primitive instincts at the
same time. The major strategy used is that once a society
develops new peaceful technologies and all of the classes and
races of peoples cooperate peacefully with the new
technologies, the world leaders give the more primitive cultures
an advantage socially and promote primitive religions and
destructive self-fulfilling primitive religious prophesies, and then
use the advanced technologies and the more primitive cultures
to collapse the civilization, by promoting racial conflict, sex
conflict, class conflict, and superstitions in evil E.T.'s and secret
societies that are to powerful to overcome. 

Presently the United States is the leading successful world
power which up to the1980's had reached a golden age of
peaceful cooperation with the use of advanced technologies.
Since the 1980's the leaders of the U.S. have given extremely
unfair and biased social advantages to more primitive cultures
to collapse the U.S. and create race wars and class conflict. The
main agenda is to allow communism or fascism to prevail to
give the more primitive cultures an advantage, with the end
result being a collapse of civilization to a primitive state  and
consequently none of the primitive cultures ever benefit from
the collapse but become enslaved by their own leaders. 

In order for our modern world to succeed as well as the U.S.,
we must follow a new archetype which states that with
advanced technologies and advanced civilizations comes ethical
and peaceful cooperation between all races, classes, and
peoples, and countries. We also must believe that the secret
organizations and E.T's are not all powerful and can adopt
ethical, peaceful successful, & productive leadership models
which do not involve promoting primitive instincts and cults,
but rather complex advanced civilized cooperation with all
peoples, races, sexes, classes  and societies of earth and the
universe. 


Thomas Clark
www.rhfweb.com\personal
tom rhfweb.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 10:03:02 2001
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Subject: Re: Vast Impedance Differences for 60 Henry coils   481 hz
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--- hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu> wrote:
> Thanks for the information. One point of
> clarification- In a parallel
> resonant circuit, the current in the capacitor is
> 180 degrees out of phase
> with the current through the inductor. Also a three
> phase transformer can
> be either wye or delta connected, and the secondary
> can be different then
> the primary. If the loads on the circuit are
> balanced three phase loads,
> the currents or voltages will be 120 degrees out of
> phase. If they are not
> balanced, the analysis of the circuit is much
> harder, you have to apply
> Kirchoff's laws carefully to see what is actually
> happening.
> 
> Hank
I think part of my problem is the fact of how the
three phase sourcings from the AC converted Delco Remy
alternator were made. Herbert Jackson's Introduction
to Electric Circuits shows a 3 phase alternator with
the windings connected in WYE, and in the diode
removal and three ending procurement of line voltage
sourcings from the stator I noticed that all three
were connected as a common line tied point. This is a
painted over junction, and I did not procure a 4th
neutral (return)wire from that point. Now it is
understood that the loads from the alternator could
also be connected either in delta, or in wye. But the 
output loads placed in wye, will have a reduced
voltage by the square root of 3, compared to that of
placing the loads directly across the line voltages as
a delta load application. Thus all applications start
as the loads placed in this manner. The first
conversion takes places as a wye generator source to a
delta load.

Taking the commonsence approach here to derive the
maximum voltage on the load by correct delta placement
instead of wye also reveals the drawbacks to this
approach. I have previous experience in tuning a high
amperage/low inductance system of 5000 ft of 14 gauge
coils containing some 30 coils of 500 ft lengths of 14
gauge wire,each arranged as 10 coils in series for
each of the 3 phases. Each phase has an inductive load
of ~.15 H   12.5 ohms as shown at
http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/LaGrangeLn/teslafy/trinity.html
 When this was done the frequency of the alternator
was not initially itself measured, but instead was
mathematically calculated by motor rpm, approximate
ratio of pulley diameters, and the 7 pole faces per
rotation. An incorrect figure of 201 hz was
ascertained and the L(invariant) and C quantities were
tuned to that frequency. However it was discovered
that the voltages and measured amperages did not
develope as expected, and a direct frequency
measurement then made showed only 188 hz. Retuning a
single phase out of the three to the new parameter
however itself did not allow that phase to become more
fully resonant. In order for this to occur,ALL THREE
PHASES HAD TO BE TUNED TO RESONANCE, FOR ANY SINGLE
ONE TO DISPLAY RESONANCE.

Let us reason to see how this can be possible. The
delta load application has no provision for a 4th
return neutral wire, that is needed for the case of
unbalanced loads, where the portion of uncancelled
current can return on that line. For the delta load
application, the entirety of its return currents are
made on the adjacent phases delta connections. If
those phases are not fully resonant, they do not have
the amount of return current on those phases to enable
the conduction level demanded by the most resonant
phase.  There happens to be a fine line there as
current conduction from a single output phase only
appears to be readily possible, but underlying that
fact may be a demon in disguise where the actual
ability of that inductor displaying conduction to
resonate may be inhibited on the single phase load
example. Thus here we might conclude that instead of
delta loads being preferable for resonant
applications, perhaps the WYE load application, by
virtue of the fact that a 4th wire neutral can be
obtained from the stator output, may in fact be
necessary as the present delta load application seems
to be giving impossible results. To state this again,
it was observed on the worst coil conduction phase
that placing Sr Fe in the core allowed more conduction
on that phase, while doing this procedure to the other
phases instead diminished the conduction as would be
suspected. 

Having noted the first conversion of a wye sourced
alternator stator to delta outputs, let us proceed to
the second conversion which occurs on the transformer
delta sourced from the alternator to its primaries as
the application is made. The nameplate data on the
large three phase transformer reads as follows.

15.7 KVA 3 PH. 500 A
PRI 230-460 V.  WYE 18.8 A.
SEC 24 VAC DELTA 244 A.

I had assumed this to be a 10/1 step down transformer,
however application was made in reverse where the
stepped down side noted as 24 VAC DELTA was hooked to
the alternator WYE sourced EMF. Thus here we are under
the impression that a wye to delta conversion is made
by application of that transformer connection as a
load. Now a visual inspection of the other three
connections on the side noted as PRI 230-460 V. WYE
18.8 A , shows that indeed that a common junction
exists on those outputs, so they are in WYE. The
common primary line voltage in tests is 24 volts from
the alternator, but 560- 580 volts appears on the
outputs, showing about a 23 to 1 step up ratio.
Comparing the largest and lowest voltage values noted
on the nameplate gives 460/24 ~=19.16. Does anyone
think that a higher input frequency than ordinary 60
hz application would actually also change the voltage
transformation ratio? I would assume that DOES NOT
apply. If a voltage transformation exists it would be
from the delta to wye conversion of voltages, but as
formerely noted the wye voltage is always less than
the delta, so what is going on with these high voltage
output readings? Let us see what the electrical trades
say; from
http://www.elec-toolbox.com/usefulinfo/xfmr-3ph.htm

There are only 4 possible transformer combinations:

Delta to Delta - use: industrial applications 
Delta to Wye - use : most common; commercial and
industrial 
Wye to Delta - use : high voltage transmissions 
Wye to Wye - use : rare, don't use causes harmonics
and balancing problems. 
Three-phase transformers are connected in delta or wye
configurations. A wye-delta transformer has its
primary winding connected in a wye and its secondary
winding connected in a delta. A delta-wye transformer
has its primary winding connected in delta and its
secondary winding connected in a wye.

So there you have it, the(emf sourced) input being
wye, the output being wye, with intervening Delta, and
lack of a 4th return wire sure does complicate things.
It says right there that it causes balancing problems,
and in this case the balance problem is so severe that
a high inductive reactance instead acts as a
capacitive reactance, from what I conclude. That why
the addition of ferrite to the core increases its
reactive current measurements. This is only grasping
at straws in order to provide an explanation.

Plexiglass  capacitors were set up to provide equal
reactances by formula. The former (coil)amperages
obtained with an ~ 600 volt input were;( a replaced
digital vs needle measurement shows about 570 volts)
Phase 1) 1.58 ma, 379,746 Ohms reactance.
Phase 2) 2.23 ma, 269,000 Ohms reactance.
Phase 3) .7 ma increased to 1.12 ma by SrFe core
insertion yeilding ~ 500,000 reactance.

Values of .87 nf, 1.23 nf, and .66 nf plexiglass
capacities were then matched and placed as the sole
output loads. This resulted in the folowing
amperages..
Phase 1) 1.3 ma
Phase 2) 3 ma
Phase 3) 1.07 ma

As we can see only phase 3 produced an amperage level
corresponding to what should occur.

Now those values were placed in series with the coils,
even though two of them are seen to be wrong, since
cancelling reactances are what is desired for
resonance.  570 volts are measured across an output
phase yeilding the following conductions.

Phase 1) 13 ma 
Phase 2) 13.2 ma
Phase 3) 2.83 ma

The plates from phase 2 emit a high pitched whining
sound likened to a dentist drill. I will have to
devise a method of moving these plates while in
operation,while simultaneously recording each phases
amperage.  At 570 volts input plus what little
resonant voltage rise that is occurring, one does not
want to offer the body as a ground path on a high
voltage device that is not grounded.


In this situation, because of the large KVA value of
the transformer the efficiency made by comparing
amperages on each side of the transformer shows the
high voltage side to be far less power output than the
(normally reactive) power input. A terrible efficiency
might be expected.

A delta line measurement of the corner that connects
the worst resonance consuming 2.83 ma (phase 3) and
the better phase 1 that consumes 13 ma reads 11.3
ma!??? The book value that represents what that
amperage SHOULD read would be 1.73(2.83 + 13)= 26.9
ma!
Once again this might make sense only if that bad
phase consumption was considered to be a capacitive
reactance, instead of of inductive, where in fact that
delta line amperage consumption consists of that
evidence that the bad phase is acting exclusively as a
capacitive reactance, although it consists of
inductive elements??? 

Further evidence of reduced amperage consumptions made
by unbalanced Delta Loads are noted at the electrical
trades URL cited above:
Open Delta Connection:

The open delta transformer connection can be made with
only two transformers instead of three. This
connection is often used when the amount of three
phase power needed is not excessive, such as a small
business. It should be noted that the output power of
an open delta connection is only 87% of the rated
power of the two transformers. For example, assume two
transformers, each having a capacity of 25 kVA, are
connected in an open delta connection. The total
output power of this connection is 43.5 kVA (50 kVA x
0.87 = 43.5 kVA).

Another figure given for this calculation is 58%. This
percentage assumes a closed delta bank containing 3
transformers. If three 25 kVA transformers were
connected to form a closed delta connection, the total
output would be 75 kVA (3 x 25 = 75 kVA). If one of
these transformers were removed and the transformer
bank operated as an open delta connection, the output
power would be reduced to 58% of its original capacity
of 75 kVA. The output capacity of the open delta bank
is 43.5 kVA (75 kVA x .58% = 43.5 kVA).

HDN 

=====
Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost.com/teslafy/

__________________________________________________
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"Thomas D. Clark" wrote:

> The Fatal Archetype which Humanity Must Overcome to
> Succeed in The Future!
>
> If one looks at every great civilization of earth, one may notice
> an archetype that many great civilizations, world leaders, and
> militaries of our past seem to have followed, which always leads
> to the collapse of peaceful civilizations to a more primitive
> state. The archetype is the following:
>
> When any world leader, government, or military develops new
> advanced technologies which ensures the success of complex
> civilizations, the secret organizations of the world convince the
> leaders of the civilization that in order to keep their power, they
> must revert back to a primitive state, classify the technologies
> and keep them secret, and adopt unethical ruthless leadership
> policies. And in every case, the world leaders that follow this
> archetype, lose their power and the civilization collapses and
> goes back to a primitive state.

Would you please provide some examples.  My reading of history provides
no evidence at all for this analysis.

Ed Storms

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 11:48:57 2001
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Subject: Re: The Fatal Archetype which Humanity Must Overcome to Succeed in The  Future!
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Dear Mr. Ed Storms:

Thank you for you response to my email sent to vortex list.
In response to your question of  historical examples for the
email that I sent on the Fatal Archetype .....:

One example of a great culture that did well technologically was
the Roman culture when it was ruled by the republican senate,
and then it was taken over by dictators and generals who then
focused on persecution, tortures, secret society religious
propaganda such as the Christian Religion and primitive cult
prophesies, and more primitive aspects of government, and then
Rome collapsed.  

Another example are the German Nazis which first stated out as
a very successful technological culture which saved Germany
from the depression, and then after a few years, Hitler changed
is whole philosophy and took a hard right turn, delayed development of
advanced technologies which would have won the war, and instead he
decided to focus his energies on persecuting the Jews and call up primitive 
racial instincts and race wars which caused Hitler to loose the war.  
I read that Hitler was coerced by secret societies, and E.T's that went 
back in time to change history, to give up his original plans, and 
intentinally lose the war, since Germany was to successfull and 
would have united the world, and defeated the E.T.s all the sooner. 

The U.S. is a world power that may succeed in uniting the
world under capitalism  The United States since 1980, has
supported China and the third world countries under Clinton, by
giving them advanced technologies such as in the Nuclear and
holographic time travel technologies that Clintion's
administration allowed the Chinese to steel, to help allow the
communists and fascists to collapse the U.S. Government, so
that a United Nations Communistic Government can
redistribute the U.S. wealth to the Third World. Bush seems to
be following Clinton's Plan as well to date. If our economy
collapses under Bush, the communists may take over the world
and bring us back to a primitive slave state, under E.T. control 
instead of human control. 

Thomas Clark
www.rhfweb.com\personal
tom rhfweb.com


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Dear Mr. Ed Storms:
<BR>
<BR>Thank you for you response to my email sent to vortex list.
<BR>In response to your question of &nbsp;historical examples for the
<BR>email that I sent on the Fatal Archetype .....:
<BR>
<BR>One example of a great culture that did well technologically was
<BR>the Roman culture when it was ruled by the republican senate,
<BR>and then it was taken over by dictators and generals who then
<BR>focused on persecution, tortures, secret society religious
<BR>propaganda such as the Christian Religion and primitive cult
<BR>prophesies, and more primitive aspects of government, and then
<BR>Rome collapsed. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>Another example are the German Nazis which first stated out as
<BR>a very successful technological culture which saved Germany
<BR>from the depression, and then after a few years, Hitler changed
<BR>is whole philosophy and took a hard right turn, delayed development of
<BR>advanced technologies which would have won the war, and instead he
<BR>decided to focus his energies on persecuting the Jews and call up primitive 
<BR>racial instincts and race wars which caused Hitler to loose the war. &nbsp;
<BR>I read that Hitler was coerced by secret societies, and E.T's that went 
<BR>back in time to change history, to give up his original plans, and 
<BR>intentinally lose the war, since Germany was to successfull and 
<BR>would have united the world, and defeated the E.T.s all the sooner. 
<BR>
<BR>The U.S. is a world power that may succeed in uniting the
<BR>world under capitalism &nbsp;The United States since 1980, has
<BR>supported China and the third world countries under Clinton, by
<BR>giving them advanced technologies such as in the Nuclear and
<BR>holographic time travel technologies that Clintion's
<BR>administration allowed the Chinese to steel, to help allow the
<BR>communists and fascists to collapse the U.S. Government, so
<BR>that a United Nations Communistic Government can
<BR>redistribute the U.S. wealth to the Third World. Bush seems to
<BR>be following Clinton's Plan as well to date. If our economy
<BR>collapses under Bush, the communists may take over the world
<BR>and bring us back to a primitive slave state, under E.T. control 
<BR>instead of human control. 
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>www.rhfweb.com\personal
<BR>tom rhfweb.com
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 11:59:06 2001
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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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>Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
>delusional stuff that you seem so fond of . I know I could put you into an
>email kill file, but I don't see why I should be forced to go to that
>trouble.

***{Right: you would rather stir up a ruckus. My suggestion: put Bruce in
your killfile, and be done with him. Nobody needs the headaches associated
with another catfight in this group. --MJ}***

 Few here mind if off topic messages are posted every now and again
>but NOT lengthy cross posts of crazy off topic exchanges between unknown
>people. Anybody else agree with me?

***{One can agree with your diagnosis while rejecting your cure, which in
my opinion is far worse than the disease. Use your killfile, please. The
last thing we need here is people who call in the conformity police every
time they read something they don't like. --MJ}***

>Nick
________________
Quote of the month:

"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

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From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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I agree 100%
Hank


On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Nick Palmer wrote:

> Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
> delusional stuff that you seem so fond of . I know I could put you into an
> email kill file, but I don't see why I should be forced to go to that
> trouble. Few here mind if off topic messages are posted every now and again
> but NOT lengthy cross posts of crazy off topic exchanges between unknown
> people. Anybody else agree with me?
> 
> Nick
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 12:35:19 2001
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <jlsparber earthlink.net>, "Brodzinski, Ronald L" <ron.brodzinski@pnl.gov>,
        <GESREBSPAR aol.com>, "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger@suite224.net>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force  (Correction)
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>Dilated current loops:
> qc[kq^2/G*m1*m2)]^1/2  (ampere-meters)
 
Should be:

qc/[kq^2/(G*m1*m2)]^1/2  (ampere-meters)

Regards,  Frederick

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Subject: Re: Heaviest Element?
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John Schnurer Asked.

>what is the heaviest element?

Osmium is the heaviest element, weighing in at 22.65 gr/cm^3 followed by Iridium
(22.42), Rhenium(21.02), Tungsten(19.35) and then Uranium(~18.95).

Lead sinkers are heavy too, John.  :-)

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 12:37:45 2001
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Subject: Re: Vast Impedance Differences for 60 Henry coils   481 hz
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	Wow! That is quite a setup.
	 Your efficency at ~180 Hz  will be much lower then at 60 Hz,
because the losses, such as eddy currents, in the transformer increase
with frequency. You might be better off using 440 Hz equipment, which is
still available on the surplus market.
	 Instead of working all three phases initially, just use one phase
at a time on the secondary side, until you get your tuning done, and
understand what is happening near resonance as you change the capacitance
values, and change your inductance core.
	A slightly unbalanced delta 3-phase connection should not cause a
lot of problems. You could force a ground reference by using three
resistors in a Y and grounding the center of the wye. Use resistors that
are relatively large so you dont draw too much current, but are low
compared with body resistance. This will keep things relatively balanced,
and wont let one side drift high above ground.
	Where are you located? If in Southern CA I would like to see your
setup.

Hank

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 12:43:47 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Aug 03, 2001
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:38:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 3 Aug 01   Washington, DC

1. ENVIRONMENT I: LAWS OF PHYSICS LOSE IN FUEL EFFICIENCY VOTE.
The House crushed an amendment to increase the CAFE standard for
cars and SUVs (WN 27 Jul 01).  The auto industry and the unions
joined the opposing forces, arguing that if the auto industry
builds lighter vehicles to meet the standard, it will lead to
increased fatalities.  Even a majority of the National Academy
panel that recommended a higher CAFE standard fell for this
nonsense.  The fact is that since all the vehicles on the road
travel at about the same speed, the total energy dissipated in a
head-on collision diminishes as the sum of the masses decreases. 
Moreover, most of the damage to humans results from the rate of
change of momentum.  In a collision between a car and a cement
truck, the guys in the car lose.  But would we be safer if
everyone drove a cement truck?

2. ENVIRONMENT II: MAYBE THE SENATE CAN STILL SAVE US.  However
silly the claim, the House strategy of linking fuel efficiency to
fatalities was hugely effective.  The scientific community has an
obligation to challenge the big-is-safe misinformation when the
Senate takes up its version of the energy bill.  Senator John
Kerry (D-MA) is leading the fight to increase the CAFE standards.

3.  POLYGRAPH: SENATORS DOUBT THE MYTH OF THE LIE DETECTOR.  A
bill introduced in the Senate this week by Jeff Bingaman (D-NM),
and Pete Domenici (R-NM), would sharply reduce the number of DOE
employees forced to undergo polygraph tests, reversing last
year's action.  According to the two senators, polygraph tests
are not viewed as credible by DOE scientists.  Meanwhile, the -
new director of the FBI was promising to beef up polygraph
testing of FBI personnel to respond to the Robert Hansen spy case
(WN 30 Mar 01); that was also the response of the CIA to the
Aldrich Ames spy case (WN 7 Nov 97), and it was the DOE response
to the Wen Ho Lee debacle.  So far, not one spy has ever been
exposed by a polygraph test. 

4.  ISS: RUNNING OFF THOSE EXTRA CALORIES.  The belt tightens
again on the ISS budget in the face of a $4.8 billion cost
overrun, and as WN predicted (WN 27 Mar 98), NASA is shedding the
extra pounds of its most expensive science project ever by
cutting the fat out of its diet: the science.  With nowhere else
to cut, NASA is again making up for its over-spending by slashing
by $1 billion the science on board.  While Senator Bill Nelson
(D-FL) noted that many members of Congress want to see "an
aggressive program of research" on the station, "without the
science, there's not much to do in the way of research."  This
concern is echoed by Rep. Tim Roemer (D-IN), who commented that
despite the sky high cost, "the science is dwindling." 
Fortunately, the calories ISS science would have contributed to
the overall science community were scarce to begin with.

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 13:13:53 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
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References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0108031145040.26787-100000 newton.csun.edu>
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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I did not expect anybody to wade through the disulisional stuff just that
there is going to be a demonstration on the 13 th of Oct for several
reasons. a few to mention;  Govt Secrcy, Supression, which Jack Sarfatti may
be involved, unintentially perhaps, because he is still in the quantum
mechanics mode. You fill in the rest. The high frequency technology, (Zero
Point electromagnetic radiation technology) looks promising and is
proceeding. I will be forwarding some breaking information about this
technology  as soon as it is published in our latest edition of Electrifying
Times. I have spent 10 years covering a few inventors that have recently
broke this Zero Point code. Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich


> I agree 100%
> Hank
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Nick Palmer wrote:
>
> > Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
> > delusional stuff that you seem so fond of . I know I could put you into
an
> > email kill file, but I don't see why I should be forced to go to that
> > trouble. Few here mind if off topic messages are posted every now and
again
> > but NOT lengthy cross posts of crazy off topic exchanges between unknown
> > people. Anybody else agree with me?
> >
> > Nick
> >
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 13:16:02 2001
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Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:22:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Frederick Sparber <fjsparber earthlink.net>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger@suite224.net>
Subject: hassium........Re: Heaviest Element?
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	Dear Folks,

	As Turbine Myths roar across the sky.........

	somewhere.....

	someone......

	BBC world news .....


	Claimed the "heaviest" element  "??	Hassium		??"

	Was celebrating ...uh.... something....

	SO:

	Rather than perpetuate the mythaketh of otherth ....

	I though I would ask in forum....



On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Frederick Sparber wrote:

> John Schnurer Asked.
> 
> >what is the heaviest element?
> 
> Osmium is the heaviest element, weighing in at 22.65 gr/cm^3 followed by Iridium
> (22.42), Rhenium(21.02), Tungsten(19.35) and then Uranium(~18.95).
> 
> Lead sinkers are heavy too, John.  :-)
> 
> Regards,   Frederick
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 13:19:37 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: CAFE Questions  New for Aug 03, 2001]
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y

	If you Raise the CAFE standard does this mean more emission
   from the tail pipe?


				J
	

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From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
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cc: "Brodzinski, Ronald L" <ron.brodzinski pnl.gov>, jlsparber@earthlink.net,
        "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>, GESREBSPAR@aol.com
Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force
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Frederick

	Where did the equation 

Fm=1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2

come from?

How far apart are the current loops, and what is their radius?

Just what are you doing here?

Hank

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Frederick Sparber wrote:

> Undilated current loops:
> 
> I = q/t     
> 
> t = 2(pi)r/c
> 
> I = qc/2(pi)r      q = 1.6E-19,  c = 3.0E8   (constants)
> 
> String-Circle radius, r = kq^2/E     
> 
> kq^2 = 2.304E-28
> 
> Thus I*2(pi)r = qc   =  4.8E-11 (ampere-meters) 
> 
> Dilated current loops:
> 
> qc[kq^2/(G*m1*m2)]^1/2   (ampere-meters)
> 
> G = 6.67E-11
> 
> The magnetic force between two current loops:
> 
> Fm = 1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2  (newton)
> 
> M1 & M2 are in ampere-meters
> 
> Is it Friday yet?
> 
> Regards,    Frederick
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 16:00:24 2001
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Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force
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Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force

Hank Scudder wrote:

> Frederick
>
> Where did the equation
>
> Fm=1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2
>
> come from?

Magnetostatic forces between two "point poles".

>
> How far apart are the current loops, and what is their radius?

Since String-Superstring Theory says the loops "are length
only and have no width" they can be darn close in which case in the nucleus whether
the force varies as 1/R^2 or 1/R^3 is of little importance.

But, it is important for the manetogravity force at distances large wrt their radius.

Their radius, R = kq^2/E  where E is their energy. For the
electron R = 2.81E-15 Meters. For the String-Circles in
a nucleus R ~ = 4.6E-18 Meters. (E = 5E-11 joule)
>
> Just what are you doing here?

Developing a nuclear MODEL that ties the GRAVITY FORCE to the STRONG FORCE.    :-)

Regards,  Frederick
>
> Hank
>
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>
> > Undilated current loops:
> >
> > I = q/t
> >
> > t = 2(pi)r/c
> >
> > I = qc/2(pi)r      q = 1.6E-19,  c = 3.0E8   (constants)
> >
> > String-Circle radius, r = kq^2/E
> >
> > kq^2 = 2.304E-28
> >
> > Thus I*2(pi)r = qc   =  4.8E-11 (ampere-meters)
> >
> > Dilated current loops:
> >
> > qc[kq^2/(G*m1*m2)]^1/2   (ampere-meters)
> >
> > G = 6.67E-11
> >
> > The magnetic force between two current loops:
> >
> > Fm = 1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2  (newton)
> >
> > M1 & M2 are in ampere-meters
> >
> > Is it Friday yet?
> >
> > Regards,    Frederick
> >
> >
> >
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 17:05:38 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: What is the heaviest element?
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 10:03:03 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <9oemmtkrdrpc3nrncuaj09qhppfjbimi8q 4ax.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010802201241.20027E-100000 college.antioch-college.edu> <3B6A7B6A.E7FFAD11@ix.netcom.com>
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In reply to  Akira Kawasaki's message of Fri, 03 Aug 2001 03:22:34
-0700:
[snip]
>that it seems to have survived since the "Big Bang". But according to
>Semat, small quantities of naturally occuring Neptunium and Plutonium
>was found in Pitchblende. Neptunium has a half life of 2.14X10^6 years
>and Plutonium of 8.2X10^7 uears. Interersting.
[snip]
Not really that hard to explain. Some Uranium does fission naturally,
and will produce free neutrons in the process. When these are captured
by other Uranium atoms, Neptunium and Plutonium will be produced, just
as happens in nuclear reactors.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 17:16:26 2001
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Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:57:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
cc: GESREBSPAR aol.com, jlsparber@earthlink.net,
        "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>
Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force
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Thank you, and good luck.

Hank







On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Frederick Sparber wrote:

> Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force
> 
> Hank Scudder wrote:
> 
> > Frederick
> >
> > Where did the equation
> >
> > Fm=1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2
> >
> > come from?
> 
> Magnetostatic forces between two "point poles".
> 
> >
> > How far apart are the current loops, and what is their radius?
> 
> Since String-Superstring Theory says the loops "are length
> only and have no width" they can be darn close in which case in the nucleus whether
> the force varies as 1/R^2 or 1/R^3 is of little importance.
> 
> But, it is important for the manetogravity force at distances large wrt their radius.
> 
> Their radius, R = kq^2/E  where E is their energy. For the
> electron R = 2.81E-15 Meters. For the String-Circles in
> a nucleus R ~ = 4.6E-18 Meters. (E = 5E-11 joule)
> >
> > Just what are you doing here?
> 
> Developing a nuclear MODEL that ties the GRAVITY FORCE to the STRONG FORCE.    :-)
> 
> Regards,  Frederick
> >
> > Hank
> >
> > On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Frederick Sparber wrote:
> >
> > > Undilated current loops:
> > >
> > > I = q/t
> > >
> > > t = 2(pi)r/c
> > >
> > > I = qc/2(pi)r      q = 1.6E-19,  c = 3.0E8   (constants)
> > >
> > > String-Circle radius, r = kq^2/E
> > >
> > > kq^2 = 2.304E-28
> > >
> > > Thus I*2(pi)r = qc   =  4.8E-11 (ampere-meters)
> > >
> > > Dilated current loops:
> > >
> > > qc[kq^2/(G*m1*m2)]^1/2   (ampere-meters)
> > >
> > > G = 6.67E-11
> > >
> > > The magnetic force between two current loops:
> > >
> > > Fm = 1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2  (newton)
> > >
> > > M1 & M2 are in ampere-meters
> > >
> > > Is it Friday yet?
> > >
> > > Regards,    Frederick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 18:27:02 2001
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Sender: hoyt eskimo.com
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Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 22:17:49 -0700
From: "Hoyt Stearns Jr." <hoyt-stearns home.com>
Organization: ISUS
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Subject: Re: LNeutron lifetime
References: <2f.18440337.288e5a72 aol.com>
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Greetings,


To show how simple physical reality can be when you
have the right theory,
here's how to calculate the lifetime of the neutron
from basic postulates
of Dewey Larson's Reciprocal System without any
empirical data:

Neutron mean lifetime t = c^2/2R / ( 128 + 1/8 ) =
949.1  sec.
where R is the Rydberg frequency, and 1/(128 + 1/8) is
the fraction
of the motions that constitute the neutron that are
effective in our
reference system.

>From K.V.K. Nehru, "The Lifetime of the Neutron",
Reciprocity, Autumn 1983,
ISSN 0276-4172, The journal for ISUS, inc.




http://www.rsystem.org/rs/cwkvk/index.htm

Hoyt Stearns
Phoenix

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug  3 18:50:22 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: "Hoyt Stearns Jr." <hoyt-stearns home.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: LNeutron lifetime
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	Empirically ... about 900 to 1,000 seconds.... once they are no
longer inside an atom!

	.....and the older thinking was thet MAYBE ... they were there to
turn into protons.... and VV  ! .....and that the electron was mashed into
the side of the proton to make the neutron .....

	Hmmm.........


					

On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Hoyt Stearns Jr. wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> 
> To show how simple physical reality can be when you
> have the right theory,
> here's how to calculate the lifetime of the neutron
> from basic postulates
> of Dewey Larson's Reciprocal System without any
> empirical data:
> 
> Neutron mean lifetime t = c^2/2R / ( 128 + 1/8 ) =
> 949.1  sec.
> where R is the Rydberg frequency, and 1/(128 + 1/8) is
> the fraction
> of the motions that constitute the neutron that are
> effective in our
> reference system.
> 
> >From K.V.K. Nehru, "The Lifetime of the Neutron",
> Reciprocity, Autumn 1983,
> ISSN 0276-4172, The journal for ISUS, inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.rsystem.org/rs/cwkvk/index.htm
> 
> Hoyt Stearns
> Phoenix
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 00:22:49 2001
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>
Subject: Re: Extended Pregnancy?
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:18:58 -0500
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According to CNN: "U.S. Teen Births Fall to Record Low".
I say that is too long a pregnancy anyhow, don't you?

FJS

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 01:28:39 2001
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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 04:28:09 EDT
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?How=20to=20solve=20the=20Oil=20&=20Energy=A0=20Cr?=
 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ises=20to=20support=20Capitalism?=
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How to solve the Oil & Energy=A0 Crises to support Capitalism

The worlds petroleum and natural gas recourses can only power
the world for the next 50 to 70 years. Since capitalism is often
controlled or regulated by energy such as oil, one can continue
to encourage capitalism after the oil runs out by encouraging
alternative energies.=A0 In order to solve this problem now before
it is to late, we can encourage the electricity companies to use
fuel cells which utilize hydrogen and water, wind power, and
solar power to develop more electrical power to replace oil and
natural gas. The technologies to run automobiles by batteries
and fuels cells a have been around for 100 to 50 years. In fact
one can run an automobile off of 12 x 12 volt batteries easily or
a fuel cell which converts hydrogen and into water from
alternative fuels. The electricity companies should be happy to
support alternative enrages. Also most private enterprises such
software enterprises which need capitalism to survive can
encourage alternative energies. The software industry and the
electric companies make more money than the oil companies,=20
and should be able to lobby congress to support capitolism..
Fortunately the U.S. has Bill gates to save the U.S. economy,
since the communists failed to collapse Bill Gates and
fortunately the NSA needs Bill Gates to survive in the future.
Without Bill Gates the U.S. would have collapsed by now. Bill
Gates saved the U.S. economy by developing software quicker
and faster than anyone else could have, and without Bill Gates
there would have been no internet to use by the mid 1990's to
save the free world!

Thomas Clark
<A HREF=3D"http://www.rhfweb.com/personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
<A HREF=3D"mailto:tom rhfweb.com">tom@rhfweb.com</A>








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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2>How to solve the Oil &amp=
; Energy=A0 Crises to support Capitalism
<BR>
<BR>The worlds petroleum and natural gas recourses can only power
<BR>the world for the next 50 to 70 years. Since capitalism is often
<BR>controlled or regulated by energy such as oil, one can continue
<BR>to encourage capitalism after the oil runs out by encouraging
<BR>alternative energies.=A0 In order to solve this problem now before
<BR>it is to late, we can encourage the electricity companies to use
<BR>fuel cells which utilize hydrogen and water, wind power, and
<BR>solar power to develop more electrical power to replace oil and
<BR>natural gas. The technologies to run automobiles by batteries
<BR>and fuels cells a have been around for 100 to 50 years. In fact
<BR>one can run an automobile off of 12 x 12 volt batteries easily or
<BR>a fuel cell which converts hydrogen and into water from
<BR>alternative fuels. The electricity companies should be happy to
<BR>support alternative enrages. Also most private enterprises such
<BR>software enterprises which need capitalism to survive can
<BR>encourage alternative energies. The software industry and the
<BR>electric companies make more money than the oil companies,=20
<BR>and should be able to lobby congress to support capitolism..
<BR>Fortunately the U.S. has Bill gates to save the U.S. economy,
<BR>since the communists failed to collapse Bill Gates and
<BR>fortunately the NSA needs Bill Gates to survive in the future.
<BR>Without Bill Gates the U.S. would have collapsed by now. Bill
<BR>Gates saved the U.S. economy by developing software quicker
<BR>and faster than anyone else could have, and without Bill Gates
<BR>there would have been no internet to use by the mid 1990's to
<BR>save the free world!
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR><A HREF=3D"http://www.rhfweb.com/personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
<BR><A HREF=3D"mailto:tom rhfweb.com">tom@rhfweb.com</A>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_ae.18a358fb.289d0c19_boundary--

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From: ConexTom aol.com
Message-ID: <bc.184fe6fc.289d0c03 aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 04:27:47 EDT
Subject: Burkhard Heim & The size of and measurement of quarks?
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Burkhard Heim & The size of and measurement of quarks?

According to Burkhard Heim the smallest possible geometrical
unit of empty space is the metron which is 6.15 * 10^-70 m^2.
The limits of=A0 the smallest size of particles that the modern non-
classified and scientifically accredited measuring instruments=20
can measure is 10^-21.=A0 According to Occult Ether Physics by
William Lyne 1997, J.A. Wheeler, Geometrodynamics,
Academic Press, N.Y. 1962, "measured the energy density of
ZPR at 10^94 gram/cm^3, for individual fluctuations of random
ZPR, on the scale of the Plank length (10^-33 cm.), by means of
a standard radiation detector, the frequency response of which
was specially altered to extend into the super high frequency
spectrum involved. " Pg 19. According to these facts then the
range of the size of subatomic particles such as quarks,
gravitons, and omnitrons and omni particles are from 10^-21 or
10^-33 to 10^-70.=A0 But according to Burkhard Heim in his
theory of Protosimplex " Space can form different curved
structures which also can turn into to others. Under certain
boundary conditions such condensing processes can run
cyclically. then space swings within two different partial
structures always back and forth.=A0 The smallest unit which can
execute such cyclic compression's is called the Protosimplex.
Protosimplexes however occur not isolated, but can only exist
in context of other Protosimplexes. .... Therefore no isolated
quarks will never be observable which could be produced as
fragments of elementary particles." (The quote found at the web
site:=20

<A HREF=3D"http://people.blinx.de/behemoth/protosimplex/posdzech/px_g_t">htt=
p://people.blinx.de/behemoth/protosimplex/posdzech/px_g_t</A>
eilchen_e.htm.

Also according to The Holographic Universe by=A0 Bohm.
photons and perhaps quarks will always have multiple
holographic perspectives and so two apparently different
measurements of photons are actually the same measurement
from two different hologprahic windows. Also according to
Bohm and Parallel Universes by Fred Alan Wolf, it may be
possible to overcome the Heisenburg uncertainty principle by
obtaining information of the location and speed of a subatomic
particle from the past and the future information at the same time=20
to get the position, size, and speed of the particle in the present=20
without affecting the observation of the event.=A0 From a paper on
Quantuum information technologies which shows how to
synchronize two clocks with quantuum leaping at

<A HREF=3D"http://cs.jpl.nasa.gov/qct/media/InteractiveWeek.pdf">http://cs.j=
pl.nasa.gov/qct/media/InteractiveWeek.pdf</A>

Quantum states seem to hover between two possible realities.=20
So a system of 2 nuclei or 2 quarks will be in one of 2^2
possible states. So quantuum computer systems and quantuum
synchronized clocks, quantuum holographic lasers, and
quantuum meters and algorithms may be used to get more
accurate and precise measurements of time, space, and
subatomic particles such as quarks and gravitons.=20

Thomas Clark
<A HREF=3D"http://www.rhfweb.com/personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
<A HREF=3D"mailto:tom rhfweb.com">tom@rhfweb.com</A>














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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2>Burkhard Heim &amp; The s=
ize of and measurement of quarks?
<BR>
<BR>According to Burkhard Heim the smallest possible geometrical
<BR>unit of empty space is the metron which is 6.15 * 10^-70 m^2.
<BR>The limits of=A0 the smallest size of particles that the modern non-
<BR>classified and scientifically accredited measuring instruments=20
<BR>can measure is 10^-21.=A0 According to Occult Ether Physics by
<BR>William Lyne 1997, J.A. Wheeler, Geometrodynamics,
<BR>Academic Press, N.Y. 1962, "measured the energy density of
<BR>ZPR at 10^94 gram/cm^3, for individual fluctuations of random
<BR>ZPR, on the scale of the Plank length (10^-33 cm.), by means of
<BR>a standard radiation detector, the frequency response of which
<BR>was specially altered to extend into the super high frequency
<BR>spectrum involved. " Pg 19. According to these facts then the
<BR>range of the size of subatomic particles such as quarks,
<BR>gravitons, and omnitrons and omni particles are from 10^-21 or
<BR>10^-33 to 10^-70.=A0 But according to Burkhard Heim in his
<BR>theory of Protosimplex " Space can form different curved
<BR>structures which also can turn into to others. Under certain
<BR>boundary conditions such condensing processes can run
<BR>cyclically. then space swings within two different partial
<BR>structures always back and forth.=A0 The smallest unit which can
<BR>execute such cyclic compression's is called the Protosimplex.
<BR>Protosimplexes however occur not isolated, but can only exist
<BR>in context of other Protosimplexes. .... Therefore no isolated
<BR>quarks will never be observable which could be produced as
<BR>fragments of elementary particles." (The quote found at the web
<BR>site:=20
<BR>
<BR><A HREF=3D"http://people.blinx.de/behemoth/protosimplex/posdzech/px_g_t"=
>http://people.blinx.de/behemoth/protosimplex/posdzech/px_g_t</A>
<BR>eilchen_e.htm.
<BR>
<BR>Also according to The Holographic Universe by=A0 Bohm.
<BR>photons and perhaps quarks will always have multiple
<BR>holographic perspectives and so two apparently different
<BR>measurements of photons are actually the same measurement
<BR>from two different hologprahic windows. Also according to
<BR>Bohm and Parallel Universes by Fred Alan Wolf, it may be
<BR>possible to overcome the Heisenburg uncertainty principle by
<BR>obtaining information of the location and speed of a subatomic
<BR>particle from the past and the future information at the same time=20
<BR>to get the position, size, and speed of the particle in the present=20
<BR>without affecting the observation of the event.=A0 From a paper on
<BR>Quantuum information technologies which shows how to
<BR>synchronize two clocks with quantuum leaping at
<BR>
<BR><A HREF=3D"http://cs.jpl.nasa.gov/qct/media/InteractiveWeek.pdf">http://=
cs.jpl.nasa.gov/qct/media/InteractiveWeek.pdf</A>
<BR>
<BR>Quantum states seem to hover between two possible realities.=20
<BR>So a system of 2 nuclei or 2 quarks will be in one of 2^2
<BR>possible states. So quantuum computer systems and quantuum
<BR>synchronized clocks, quantuum holographic lasers, and
<BR>quantuum meters and algorithms may be used to get more
<BR>accurate and precise measurements of time, space, and
<BR>subatomic particles such as quarks and gravitons.=20
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR><A HREF=3D"http://www.rhfweb.com/personal">www.rhfweb.com\personal</A>
<BR><A HREF=3D"mailto:tom rhfweb.com">tom@rhfweb.com</A>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_bc.184fe6fc.289d0c03_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 03:22:49 2001
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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 05:11:26 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Aetherometics
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>  >>
>>>
>>>Thomas Malloy wrote:
>>>   >
>>>>What do you think about the Aetherometics website?
>>
>>and Mitchell Jones responded
>>
>>>
>>>***{My first impression: a Mulligan's stew of undefined neologisms and
>>>oracular pronouncements.

I find it hard to understand what Neitzshe has to do with this. Rand 
always criticized him as the genesis of irrational thought. I also 
know nothing about Bergson and Deleuze does anyone know anything 
about them? .

I do know about Wilhelm Reicht however. Did you see the last edition 
of Infinite Energy? They were talking about Reicht's conversation 
with Albert Einstein? There was a recount of a conversation that the 
two of them had regarding the anomulous heat that is encountered 
above an orgone box. Einstein was impressed by the increased 
temperature, .5 deg C. Given the fact that this anomolus temperature 
is experienced in the open air, I guess I would have to conclude that 
this is significant. I purchased a copy of DeMayo's book and have 
been considering constructing an orgone box for the community garden 
across the alley from my house.

I also want to call your people's attention to the discussion of life 
energy. The cover of DeMayo's book has a picture of an astronaut on 
the moon. The suit is surrounded by a blue glow, which DeMayo 
contends is the life energy. We have talked about this in the past. I 
would like to mention my friend Dr. Beverly Rubic, physicist. She has 
an institute in the San Francisco area, her website was 
www.healthy.net/frontierscience Because of her research into mind 
body interrelationships, I brought the subject of life energy up to 
her. She responded that she has no idea about the nature of this life 
energy either.

Mitchell continued

>I searched about for awhile, trying to get find
>>>something specific, and finally gave up. (If anyone found anything there
>>>that seemed worth reading, please tell me where it was.) --MJ}***
>>>
>>>[snip]


Well I found some real science. You have to click on the 
publications. There are two options, purchase or view. When I click 
on view I got a screen which assigned me a user name and password, 
When I entered them I got a .pdf encoded paper which talked about a 
gold leaf electrometer. Dr. Correa has calculated the amount of 
energy required to hold the gold leaf at a 70 deg angle for a period 
of time. This energy exceeds the amount of energy in the electrical 
charge. I don't understand the mathematics, but there is no arguing 
with his logic. Anyone who has held their arm extended for a period 
of time will argue with it.

I just noticed their article in Infinite Energy. I'm going to read 
that next, so expect a review of that too.

As long as I'm on the subject, this is the first time that I've seen 
people with PhD's in physics after their name who are questioning 
Einstein. I assumed that the light bending was well proven, well you 
know what happens when you assume. Otto used to say that General 
Relativity was just a theory. Special Relativity, OTOH was 
"conclusively proven by the atom bomb." The articles continued with 
physicists were questioning E+MC2, which I though was well proven. 
I'm wondering what Ed Storms, and any other physicists have to say 
about that.

The articles continued with a discussion of the various schools which 
question Einstein's G R. One paradigm that was mentioned was 
proponets of the active Aether. Given what I said to Dr. Jack 
Sarfati, see my other post, that includes me.

The Correas also reference Harold Aspden, those of you who have an 
interest in the nature of the Aether would do well to visit his site 
at.

>  >>________________
>>Hum, you apparently didn't see the part about the motor that pulls 1
>>KW out of the aether.
>
>***{Correct. I read down through the Niagra of words in the first four
>sections, in order as the authors advised,

I did exactly the opposite. I read books from the back forward, and I 
approached the site the same way. I agree that what is posted on the 
open part of the site is a Niagra of words. I am going to contact 
Carol, who teaches philosophy at the Univ of MN, to see what light 
she can shed on the relationship of the philosophers mentioned to 
this discussion, The one thing that I did find enlightening was Dr. 
Correa's assertion that he has pulled a KW of energy out of his 
machine. I have calculated that with 6 KW of energy, my furnace 
wouldn't come on even during cold weather and when the temperature 
was above 0 deg F, which is most of the time, I could leave the 
windows open, which is just too cool, IMHO.
>
>
>Now I haven't witnessed this energy production,
>>but the Correa's have three patents, and I do know what they cost.
>>Apparently they believe that they have something worth protecting.
>
>***{Dangerous reasoning. There are tens of thousands of patents that aren't
>worth the paper they are printed on,


Your right Mitchell, my assumption is that we are dealing with a 
rational person. OTOH, if you read the entire page you will notice 
that people representing major corporations have told them that the 
corporation will still be around when their patents expire. The fact 
that these people are willing to spend their time talking to the 
Correas indicates that they have something.

>***{I will be happy to discuss it with you, if you can point me to
>something substantive--i.e., something that gives enough details so that we
>can attempt a reasoned evaluation. --MJ}***

Well that's it for this discussion.

>________________
>Quote of the month:
>
>"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
>in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
>than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

I think about this quote every time I head an adverisment for gold on 
talk radio.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 03:22:53 2001
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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 05:11:26 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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>Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
>delusional
>people. Anybody else agree with me?
>
>Nick

I found it quite entertaining and I've been looking for Jack 
Sarfati's email address. As long as these outbursts are just 
occasional, I say let them continue.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 03:35:15 2001
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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 05:11:26 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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>I did not expect anybody to wade through the disulisional stuff just that
>there is going to be a demonstration on the 13 th of Oct for several
>reasons. a few to mention;  Govt Secrcy, Supression,

Where is this demonstration going to be, and what are you going to 
demonstrate against?

>which Jack Sarfatti may
>be involved, unintentially perhaps, because he is still in the quantum
>mechanics mode.

What is a quantum mechanics mode?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 03:35:35 2001
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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 05:11:26 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: The Fatal Archetype which Humanity Must Overcome to Succeed
 in The   Future!
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>"Thomas D. Clark" wrote:
>
>  And in every case, the world leaders that follow this
>  > archetype, lose their power and the civilization collapses and
>>  goes back to a primitive state.

and Ed Storms responded

>
>Would you please provide some examples.  My reading of history provides
>no evidence at all for this analysis.
>

Have you ever heard of the Dark Ages? IMHO, some evil people took 
over and repressed learning

OTOH
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become
corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." --Benjamin
Franklin


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 08:15:50 2001
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Huffman, "Knuke", has dropped off the list. I would like to contact him. Can
anyone give me an email address?

Mike Carrell

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 08:26:47 2001
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thomas malloy wrote:
 
> I found it quite entertaining and I've been looking for Jack
> Sarfati's email address. As long as these outbursts are just
> occasional, I say let them continue.

sarfatti well.com

http://www.stardrive.org/

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 09:13:09 2001
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        "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Intrinsic Relativistic Properties of String-Circles/Quarks
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Using a stacked "Lazy Susan" made with three-spoke bicycle wheels as an analogy of the
two "up"  (positive) and one "down" (negative) String-Circles or "quarks" in the
Proton and the speed of light c, a dizzy 10 km/hour, with the "up" (positron wheels,
made positive by an attached positron)rotating clockwise and the "down" (electron
wheel, made negative by a attached electron)) rotating counter-clockwise.

With the wheels at rest the attraction between them is strictly electrostatic, with a
net charge of +1.

As the wheels (with a Moment of Inertia (I) of 1/2mr^2) are set in motion about the
axis they attain a Spin of
I*2(pi)f  = mvr.

As the rotation velocity increases, a magnetic field  is set up around these "current
loops" and at ~ 0.87c (~ 8.7 km/hour) the relativistic"gamma" 1/[1- (v^2/c^2)]^1/2
equals 2, [1- (v^2/c^2)]^1/2 = 0.5 and the magnetic field around each "loop" has
increased accordingly as the electrostatic forces start to decrease, however, the +/-
charges remain constant.

At a rotation velocity very close to 10 km/hour a gamma of 10^3, [1-(v^2/c^2)]^1/2 =
10^-3 is attained, and at a gamma of 1.0E18, [1-(v^2/c^2)]^1/2 = 1.0E-18!

IOW, the "currents" set up by the charges attached to the
"Lazy Susan" loops are Time-Dilated in accordance with
the tenet of GR, that circular motion results in acceleration.
About the rational conclusion one can draw from this analogy is that:

1, The Fundamental Particles are Relativistic Wave-Circles or String-Circles with
charge (not charged particles) "circulating" in them at the speed of light c.

2, Stacks of these "particles" make up the nuclei,creating
the "Strong Force" and concurrently, the Gravity Force.

Regards,   Frederick









From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 09:48:45 2001
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Carrell" <mikec snip.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:11 PM
Subject: Michael Huffman

It was knuke lcia.com 

Fred


> Huffman, "Knuke", has dropped off the list. I would like to contact him. Can
> anyone give me an email address?
> 
> Mike Carrell
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 15:49:17 2001
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From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Episodic *Massive* Flooding on Mars
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***{Here is a fascinating piece that I found on another list. (Shades of
*Total Recall*! :-) --MJ}***

> ============================================================
>
>
> Mars May Have Largest Flood Channels In Solar System
>
>
>
> Scientists may have discovered the largest flood channels in the solar system
> on Mars, currently a cold desert planet.A system of gigantic ancient valleys
> -- some as much as 200 kilometers wide -- lies partly buried under a veneer
> of volcanic lava flows, ash fall and windblown dust in Mars' western
> hemisphere. New observations made with Mars Orbiter Laser Altimeter on the
> Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft reveal northwestern slope valleys (NSVs)
> northwest of the huge martian volcano, Arsia Mons, and south of Amazonis
> Planitia, site of a postulated ocean.The northwestern slope valley system is
> ten times larger than Kasei Valles, the largest previously known outflow
> channel system on Mars, said James M. Dohm of the University of Arizona. The
> best explanation is that they were formed by catastrophic floods that at
> their peak potentially discharged as much as 50,000 times the flow of the
> Amazon River, Earth's largest river, Dohm said. Smaller outflows flooded the
> valleys later in martian history.Dohm and others from the University of
> Arizona Department of Hydrology and Water Resources, UA Lunar and Planetary
> Laboratory, NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, U.S. Geological Survey-Flagstaff
> and Smithsonian Institution reported the discovery in the June 2001 issue of
> the Journal of Geophysical Research."The implications of uncovering such a
> significant flood record of the ancient martian past is of great significance
> in that such activity supports northern ocean(s) and (or) large paleolakes in
> the northern plains," the researchers wrote.At sustained peak discharge
> rates, floods through the valleys would have filled a large ocean (96 million
> cubic kilometers) hypothesized for northern Mars in about 8 weeks, and a
> smaller ocean (14 million cubic kilometers) in the same region in about 8
> days, according to the scientists' calculations.The large ocean is equivalent
> to about a third the volume of the Indian Ocean, or more than three times the
> volume of the Mediterranean Sea, Caribbean Sea, South China Sea and Arctic
> Ocean combined. The smaller ocean is equal in volume to the Arctic Ocean."The
> Tharsis region has had pulses of major magmatic activity that triggered
> catastrophic floods that sculpted the surface, ponded, perhaps forming oceans
> and lakes that in turn perturbed the climate," Dohm said. "After picking the
> complex geologic picture apart like a jigsaw puzzle, we think there must have
> been several episodes of magmatic heating creating catastrophic floods. Dave
> Scott and others have documented that there was not just one flooding episode
> at Kasei Valles, but several."Dohm, the late David Scott of the U.S.
> Geological Survey at Flagstaff, and other collaborators have been mapping
> Mars' terrain as shown by Viking data for more than 10 years. They mapped
> basins that appear to be dried lake beds, outflow channels and other
> water-related features, and determined the relative ages of the features.
> They determined that almost 25 percent of the martian valleys represent
> relatively recent hydrologic activity, including flooding events.(Until
> future sample return missions give geologists absolute dates for surfaces on
> Mars, they can determine only relative ages for geological features.)New Mars
> Global Surveyor results are consistent with the idea that Mars is an
> episodically wetter, warmer planet."To me, the NSVs document magmatic-driven
> catastrophic floods of enormous magnitude that mark a previously unrecognized
> northwest watershed," Dohm said. "It has taken years of work to piece this
> story together. "Individual pieces of evidence by themselves represent a weak
> argument, but collectively, they give greater credence to a working
> hypothesis that Mars is an episodically warmer, wetter planet. I am excited
> because the results of our work collectively fit a consistent and coherent
> picture."When the Mars Global Surveyor data started coming in, from a
> mapper's point of view, I could understand why there seemed to be anomalies.
> Part of the story appears to be the result of a highly productive aquifer in
> the Tharsis region, and the northwestern slope valleys may be a feature of
> that."The northwestern slope valleys coincide in time with the early
> development of outflow channels that flooded Chryse Planitia, plains in the
> northeastern part of the Tharsis region. The channels formed before hot magma
> formed the northeast-trending chain of gigantic shield volcanoes, Tharsis
> Montes, that later severed the two watersheds, the researchers said.If Chryse
> flooding occurred simultaneously with Amazonis flooding, the postulated large
> and smaller oceans would have filled very quickly, they added. At sustained
> peak discharge rates, floods from the northwestern slope valleys and Chryse
> outflow channels would have filled the larger ocean in under 8 days and the
> smaller ocean in under 6 days.Dohm, who joined the UA in July 1999,
> collaborates with UA Regents' Professor Victor R. Baker on planetary- and
> terrestrial-related research.>From 1987-98, Dohm was with the U.S. Geological
> Survey in Flagstaff, where he was assistant coordinator of NASA-funded Mars
> and Venus mapping programs, now known as the Planetary Mapping Program.Baker,
> head of the Department of Hydrology and Water Resources, and Lunar and
> Planetary Laboratory Professor Robert G. Strom are among the authors of the
> JGR article. They and other UA scientists proposed in 1991 that an "Oceanus
> Borealis" repeatedly formed over the northern plains of Mars. Baker and
> colleagues have further developed the theory, naming it the "MEGAOUTFLO"
> model.Basically, the hypothesis states that over the long term, water and
> volatiles remain frozen as ground ice in the subsurface because Mars is so
> extremely cold, due to its distance from the sun and atmospheric
> conditions.The perennially frozen permafrost acts like a cap on a soda
> bottle. Just as gas and water in a capped soda bottle explode when heated,
> sporadic bursts of internal planetary heat likewise trigger the dramatic
> release of gas and water locked under the permafrost.They theorize that so
> much water is released in such episodes that a temporary ocean forms
> repeatedly over the northern hemisphere. Massive martian volcanism near the
> Thasis Bulge has triggered -- and may again trigger -- a northern plains
> ocean or lake, they said.Carbon dioxide released to the atmosphere promotes
> the warming greenhouse effect so that liquid water is stable near the martian
> surface. If Mars lacks Earth-like bio-rich soils, water from precipitation,
> outburst flooding, or both may filter underground more rapidly than it does
> on Earth.Local valleys and other observed martian features form when
> near-surface water springs from below. But when it snows or rains, water
> removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, so that Mars chills to the point
> that permafrost re-forms, plunging the planet into another long-lasting dry,
> frigid epoch.
>
> [Contact: <mailto:jmd hwr.arizona.edu>James M. Dohm,
> <mailto:lstiles U.ARIZONA.EDU>Lori Stiles]
>
> 03-Aug-2001
>
> <http://unisci.com/stories/20013/0803012.htm>Mars May Have Largest Flood
> Channels In Solar System
>
> ============================================================
________________
Quote of the month:

"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

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From: ConexTom aol.com
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Subject: D-D Water Fusion by LF-HF Sound Waves 
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D-D Water Fusion by LF-HF Sound Waves

It may be possible to develop a process of generating
a series of LF then HF sound waves to generate enough 
energy quickly enough to break the bonds of Deuterum-
Deuterum in water to create a plasma to create a fission
reaction to get a sustained ignition energy. I deduced these
assumptions from by using the process of electropulsion
described in the book Occult Ether Physics by William Lyne
1997 . Also I then reviewed the process of D-D fusion in the
book Energy by Roger Hinrichs. 1992.  I remembered that
Keely used water and sound waves to generate energy. Also I
ran into a web site which talked about Dr. Nemo's use of water
to generate energy. So the process may be similar to Keely's
process or even Dr. Nemo's process perhaps used to power his
submarine. 

Thomas Clark
www.rhfweb.com
tom rhfweb.com


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>D-D Water Fusion by LF-HF Sound Waves
<BR>
<BR>It may be possible to develop a process of generating
<BR>a series of LF then HF sound waves to generate enough 
<BR>energy quickly enough to break the bonds of Deuterum-
<BR>Deuterum in water to create a plasma to create a fission
<BR>reaction to get a sustained ignition energy. I deduced these
<BR>assumptions from by using the process of electropulsion
<BR>described in the book Occult Ether Physics by William Lyne
<BR>1997 . Also I then reviewed the process of D-D fusion in the
<BR>book Energy by Roger Hinrichs. 1992. &nbsp;I remembered that
<BR>Keely used water and sound waves to generate energy. Also I
<BR>ran into a web site which talked about Dr. Nemo's use of water
<BR>to generate energy. So the process may be similar to Keely's
<BR>process or even Dr. Nemo's process perhaps used to power his
<BR>submarine. 
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>www.rhfweb.com
<BR>tom rhfweb.com
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_107.39e2aca.289df1e8_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 19:04:52 2001
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From: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
Subject: Re: D-D Water Fusion by LF-HF Sound Waves
Resent-Message-ID: <"YCINW2.0.0O5.hcARx" mx1>
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>ran into a web site which talked about Dr. Nemo's use of water
>to generate energy. So the process may be similar to Keely's
>process or even Dr. Nemo's process perhaps used to power his
>submarine.

Dr. Nemo?  are you perhaps referring to Captain Nemo, from
Jules Verne's novel "20 Thousand Leagues Under the Sea"



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug  4 23:09:28 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Genesis
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 15:54:04 +1000
Organization: Improving
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Hi,

>The special retrieval will prevent the samples from being damaged by the 
>sudden impact of hitting the ground. 

Does anyone else have a problem with this quote from
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1464000/1464437.stm ?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug  5 02:09:45 2001
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Subject: Re: Burkhard Heim & The size of and measurement of quarks?
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Thomas Clark;

Please increase your font size.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug  5 02:25:15 2001
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From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Dr. Sarfatti responds to my email
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Having failed to elicit a response from my last posting, I'm testing 
to see if any of you Vortexians are awake. Is E=MC2 valid or not?

>Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 07:38:57 -0700
>
>thomas malloy wrote:
>
>>  I came across your physics site several years ago. I just noticed
>>  this email address in a posting on Vortex-L and decided that I would
>>  run this question by you. As you know there are several researchers
>>  who claim to have done experiments which utilize the Aether. They
>>  include: Robert Cook, www.forceborne.com who claims to have built an
>>  inertial drive. According to one of his financial backers, this
>>  machine when suspended from a rope would move over to one side and
>>  stay there. This, according to Hal Puthoff, is proof of an inertial
>  drive, or a unidirectional momentum generator.

To which Dr. Sarfatti replied
>
>I know nothing about this. I do know that Hal is often cited on supporting
>things he really does not support so you should ask him. I do not think it
>is possible for any simple classical electro mechanical device to violate
>conservation of linear momentum. We tested many of these kinds of claims
>at ISSO and none of them clearly worked as advertised. Even Shipov's
>claims were not convincing to J.P. Vigier for example who was an ISSO
>consultant nor to many other ISSO people.

Do any of you people know what he is talking about, what is ISSO? 
What Hal said was that if the Cook Drive was hung from a rope and 
moved over from the perpendicular far enough so that the entire 
machine was beyond the perpendicular ( plumb bob ) and then stayed 
there ( no precession of a gyroscope ) that was proof of an inertial 
drive.


>
>>  Then there is Tom
>>  Bearden, who told me in a private communication that his generartor
>>  would both recharge the battery that operates it and produce surplus
>>  electricity which would be capable of producing hot water.
>
>Bearden is not a reliable source on this.

I guess it depends on whether or not Tom's device can heat water doesn't it?

>
>>  The
>>  Correa's, www.aetherometry.com also claim to have harvested heat from
>>  the aether. I assume that you've heard of Harold Aspden, his website
>>  at www.energysicience.co.uk has many articles about the active aether.
>>
>>  So my question is what insights can you offer me about understanding
>>  these phenomena?
>
>That they are Cargo Cult pseudoscience in the sense described by Richard
>Feynman at a Cal Tech Commencement.
>
>PS. I looked at http://www.forceborne.com  - incompetent not even wrong
>hogwash.

That's a blunt accessment, I think it depends on whether or not he 
can demonstrate a unidirectional force, don't you?

>--
>CREATE, COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE
>http://stardrive.org

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug  5 02:53:04 2001
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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 23:51:29 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: D-D Water Fusion by LF-HF Sound Waves
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Ralph -

>Dr. Nemo?  are you perhaps referring to Captain Nemo, from
>Jules Verne's novel "20 Thousand Leagues Under the Sea"

Sheesh Ralph, *please* don't post nonsense like that to the list - I 
mean, where the heck have you been for the last 120 years? "Jules 
Verne" was hired to write that piece of "fiction" to hide the real 
truth, of course

"Captain Nemo" was based on the real Dr. Nemo who had found a way to 
tap the power of the universe using his reaction cells with sodium. 
Later, Dr. Nemo, Nikola Tesla, and Marconi all moved in together to 
build flying saucers in the giant underground canvern cities in S. 
America. Disinformation sources like D. H. Childress and others would 
have you believe that it was only Marconi and Tesla down there, but 
think logically for a second - the power requirements for a flying 
saucer are certainly a hell of a lot greater than that of a Paltry 
Pierce Arrow with a trunk full of vacuum tubes! Do you think messers 
T&M could have built the required power plant by themselves? I think 
not! Capt. - er, *Doctor* Nemo had to have been down there helping 
them out.

So that's our story now and you're sticking to it, ok???

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI  ;)

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Is CETI Still Around? If so, does anyone have their website?

Craig



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thomas malloy wrote:

> Having failed to elicit a response from my last posting, I'm testing
> to see if any of you Vortexians are awake. Is E=MC2 valid or not?

Yes, it is valid.  However, this fact does not support Einstein's model.
Several different models can be used to arrive at this relationship.  I suggest
you read the current issue of Infinite Energy.

Ed Storms


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Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Ralph -
>
> >Dr. Nemo?  are you perhaps referring to Captain Nemo, from
> >Jules Verne's novel "20 Thousand Leagues Under the Sea"
>
> Sheesh Ralph, *please* don't post nonsense like that to the list - I
> mean, where the heck have you been for the last 120 years? "Jules
> Verne" was hired to write that piece of "fiction" to hide the real
> truth, of course
>
> "Captain Nemo" was based on the real Dr. Nemo who had found a way to
> tap the power of the universe using his reaction cells with sodium.
> Later, Dr. Nemo, Nikola Tesla, and Marconi all moved in together to
> build flying saucers in the giant underground canvern cities in S.
> America. Disinformation sources like D. H. Childress and others would
> have you believe that it was only Marconi and Tesla down there, but
> think logically for a second - the power requirements for a flying
> saucer are certainly a hell of a lot greater than that of a Paltry
> Pierce Arrow with a trunk full of vacuum tubes! Do you think messers
> T&M could have built the required power plant by themselves? I think
> not! Capt. - er, *Doctor* Nemo had to have been down there helping
> them out.
>
> So that's our story now and you're sticking to it, ok???

Rick, you are just too funny to be a scientist.  However, you need to be
careful not to start a whole new delusion that might go on for another
120 years.  Ed

>
>
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI  ;)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug  5 08:13:07 2001
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Message-ID: <3B6D8057.7FC7 bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 10:20:23 -0700
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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thomas malloy wrote:

> Do any of you people know what he is talking about, what is ISSO?

International Space Sciences Organization:

http://www.isso.org

Here's a descriptive article:

http://www.aerotechnews.com/starc/1999/073099/ISSO.html

Started by Joe Firmage, remember him?

Terry

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Gentlemen;

   Chicken's not hatched yet, so count is tentative.  However, I would =
like to announce that we are putting together a web site for the =
non-profit group that I have been working on behalf of for several years =
now, The McMaster Gravity Research Foundation.
   Initially, it will include the original white paper by Dr. McMaster =
on his particular variation of the aether / space flow model for =
gravity, as well as our expansion on the model, with such features as =
the neutron / black hole analogy.
   I am going to also include a dossier of our experiments with the =
concept of using high energy capacitors in the form of oriented spheres, =
hemispheres, and cones to attempt a divergence of the converging space =
flow at the earth's surface.
   Finally, we will be linking to other works and web pages relating to =
the overall theoretical arena of aether / space flow, and papers by =
authors on the topic.  Among these is a new web page by Dr. Tom Martin, =
with a selection of his exceptional and original papers on space flow =
and gravity www.gravityresearch.org
  When the McMaster site is on-line, I will announce it here.

Nick Reiter

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gentlemen;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Chicken's not hatched yet, =
so count is=20
tentative.&nbsp; However, I would like to announce that we are putting =
together=20
a web site for the non-profit group that I have been working on behalf =
of for=20
several years now, The McMaster Gravity Research =
Foundation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Initially, it will include =
the=20
original white paper by Dr. McMaster on his particular variation of the =
aether /=20
space flow model for gravity, as well as our expansion on the model, =
with such=20
features as the neutron / black hole analogy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; I am going to also include =
a dossier=20
of our experiments with the concept of using high energy capacitors in =
the form=20
of oriented spheres, hemispheres, and cones to attempt a divergence of =
the=20
converging space flow at the earth's surface.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Finally, we will be =
linking to other=20
works and web pages relating to the overall theoretical arena of aether =
/ space=20
flow, and papers by authors on the topic.&nbsp; Among these is a new web =
page by=20
Dr. Tom Martin, with a selection of his exceptional and original papers =
on space=20
flow and gravity <A=20
href=3D"http://www.gravityresearch.org">www.gravityresearch.org</A></FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; When the McMaster site is =
on-line, I will=20
announce it here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Nick Reiter</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug  5 10:06:46 2001
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From: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
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>Later, Dr. Nemo, Nikola Tesla, and Marconi all moved in together to
>build flying saucers in the giant underground canvern cities in S.

this makes perfect sense, Rick, especially when you realize that those
three last names, taken together, are an anagram for "Alien Comet on Mars."

perhaps somebody should point this out to Richard Hoagland...

r


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug  5 12:54:41 2001
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To: Judith <judithfire symptico.ca>
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On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Judith <judithfire symptico.ca> wrote:

> Bill, I'm researching for a documentary on Wierd Science being shot for
> The Learning Channel.  Came across your site and find it hisghly
> entertaining. 
> 
> We're looking for experiments that can be filmed - that are visual and
> "wierd" and interesting.  Can you offer anything? 

Myself I only have one truely "weird" experiment:  long threads of
material in the air which are produced by high voltage.  See: 

  http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/airthred.html

These things are fascinating, and the still photographs don't reveal much
(video needed!)

I'll forward your message to some other folks that might have more
weirdness for you.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug  5 19:23:39 2001
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Bill:

What is the expected production date?  I don't have anything weird right 
now but I will be making a short pilgrimage to Marfa later this year to try 
to record headlight signature in the lights.   I have a gadget about half 
built that will record the signature along with the source image on video 
tape.

At 12:50 PM 8/5/01 -0700, you wrote:
>On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Judith <judithfire symptico.ca> wrote:
>
> > Bill, I'm researching for a documentary on Wierd Science being shot for
> > The Learning Channel.  Came across your site and find it hisghly
> > entertaining.
> >
> > We're looking for experiments that can be filmed - that are visual and
> > "wierd" and interesting.  Can you offer anything?
>
>Myself I only have one truely "weird" experiment:  long threads of
>material in the air which are produced by high voltage.  See:
>
>   http://amasci.com/weird/unusual/airthred.html
>
>These things are fascinating, and the still photographs don't reveal much
>(video needed!)
>
>I'll forward your message to some other folks that might have more
>weirdness for you.
>
>
>((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
>William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
>billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
>EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
>Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 01:06:28 2001
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Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:54:12 +0300
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Subject: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! (physics/0108005)
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Hi All,

This is no doubt the next important achievement on gravity research.

Really excited, hamdi ucar

http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005

physics/0108005 

From: Giovanni Modanese <giovanni.modanese unibz.it>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 16:13:38 GMT   (147kb)

Impulse Gravity Generator Based on Charged YBa_2Cu_3O_{7-y} Superconductor with
Composite Crystal Structure

Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
Comments: LaTeX, 32 pages, 7 figures in separated GIF and JPG files
Subj-class: General Physics

  The detection of apparent anomalous forces in the vicinity of high-Tc
  superconductors under non equilibrium conditions has stimulated an
  experimental research in which the operating parameters of the
  experiment have been pushed to values higher than those employed
  in previous attempts. The results confirm the existence of an
  unexpected physical interaction. An apparatus has been constructed
  and tested in which the superconductor is subjected to peak currents
  in excess of 10^4 A, surface potentials in excess of 1 MV, trapped
  magnetic field up to 1 T, and temperature down to 40 K. In order to
  produce the required currents a high voltage discharge technique has
  been employed. Discharges originating from a superconducting
  ceramic electrode are accompanied by the emission of radiation
  which propagates in a focused beam without noticeable attenuation
  through different materials and exerts a short repulsive force on small
  movable objects along the propagation axis. Within the measurement
  error (5 to 7 %) the impulse is proportional to the mass of the objects
  and independent on their composition. It therefore resembles a
  gravitational impulse. The observed phenomenon appears to be
  absolutely new and unprecedented in the literature. It cannot be
  understood in the framework of general relativity. A theory is proposed
  which combines a quantum gravity approach with anomalous vacuum
  fluctuations.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 09:58:41 2001
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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:57:38 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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>thomas malloy wrote:
>
>>  Having failed to elicit a response from my last posting, I'm testing
>>  to see if any of you Vortexians are awake. Is E=MC2 valid or not?

and Ed Storm replied;

>Yes, it is valid.  However, this fact does not support Einstein's model.
>Several different models can be used to arrive at this relationship. 
>I suggest
you read the current issue of Infinite Energy.

I have been reading it. This is the first time that I've read people 
with PhD's after their names questioning Einstein. I assumed that the 
star light bending in the presence of gravity was a proven fact. I 
also assumed that the two clocks one standing still and the other in 
an airplane gave proof of time dilation. What is a Galilean 
invariance? More to come.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 09:58:54 2001
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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:57:38 -0500
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Subject: Re: Dr. Sarfatti responds to my email
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>thomas malloy wrote:
>
>  > Do any of you people know what he is talking about, what is ISSO?
>
>
>Started by Joe Firmage, remember him?
>
>Terry

The name is familar, but I don't recall any details.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 10:37:11 2001
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thomas malloy wrote:

> >Started by Joe Firmage, remember him?
> >
> >Terry
> 
> The name is familar, but I don't recall any details.

CEO and founder of US Web who abandoned his company to pursue
aliens.  Big news a couple o' years ago.

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 11:59:23 2001
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Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 21:57:51 +0300
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Hi All,

It may be little ironic but I just think the Podkletnov new device can be used to send signals directly from Moscow to some gravity wave detectors at US or at other continents by crossing the Earth. I think this is possible because, despite they had never

 detected a gravity wave, they have incredible sensitivity. Although these detectors designed to detect periodic signals, I think the strength of the Podkletnov device would be enough to affect them, even the generated beam would not in nature of the grav

ity waves that have predicted by general relativity.

Sending a "pulse" may be more effective than a paper to take attention of gravity wave researchers. :)

Measuring the speed of the effect is also important in both theoretical research and practical purposes, because if they are FTL, provide very efficient terrestrial and extra-terrestrial communication medium. The current setup is actually ideal to carry o

ut speed measurements because, allowed large distance between emitter and receiver and short duration of the impulse. I think it there would be no difficulty to further reduce the pulse duration and build faster responding receivers. 

May an effective experiment to show FTL is to race the gravity beam with a light beam.:)
This can be done by bouncing a laser pulse from a mirror at target location which deviate from the gravity pulse hitting it. If gravity pulse arrive early then the laser beam, reflected light will be never reach its home, as the mirror deviate prior the l

aser beam arrive.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 12:46:17 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com, "Brodzinski, Ronald L" <ron.brodzinski@pnl.gov>,
        <jlsparber earthlink.net>,
        "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>, <GESREBSPAR@aol.com>
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: String-Circles & The Magnetic Gravity Force
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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At 5:30 AM 8/3/1, Frederick Sparber wrote:
>Undilated current loops:
>
>I = q/t
>
>t = 2(pi)r/c
>
>I = qc/2(pi)r      q = 1.6E-19,  c = 3.0E8   (constants)
>
>String-Circle radius, r = kq^2/E
>
>kq^2 = 2.304E-28
>
>Thus I*2(pi)r = qc   =  4.8E-11 (ampere-meters)
>
>Dilated current loops:
>
>qc[kq^2/(G*m1*m2)]^1/2   (ampere-meters)
>
>G = 6.67E-11
>
>The magnetic force between two current loops:
>
>Fm = 1.0E-7*M1*M2/R^2  (newton)
>
>M1 & M2 are in ampere-meters
>
>Is it Friday yet?
>
>Regards,    Frederick


Fred, it still looks like you have this wrong.  The magnetic field of a
current loop declines as the inverse cube of distance and the force between
two magnetic loops declines as the inverse of the forth power.  Given that
a current loop of radius r has magnetic moment M = Pi r^2 i, then the force
between two current loops of magnetic moments M1 and M2 sharing a common
axis and at distance R much greater than either loop radius is

   Fm = 3 mu0 M1 M2/(2 Pi R^4)

and is given in newtons when SI units are used.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 12:54:41 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! (physics/0108005)
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At 10:54 AM 8/6/1, hamdi ucar wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>This is no doubt the next important achievement on gravity research.
>
>Really excited, hamdi ucar
>
>http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005
>

If real, then this IS a major advancement with regard to space drives,
PROVIDED and assumed that the force obeys Newton's second law, i.e. that
there is an eqaul but opposite force applied to the generator itself.  If
force can be applied in a a beam-like fashion then Paul Hill of NASA in his
book *Unconventional Flyining Objects* had it exactly right.  Such a force
can be used to eliminate air resistance and to push against the earth or
sun in order to achieve propulsion.  He deduced the existence of such a
force from his analsis of UFO sightings, at least one of which was a very
remakable sighting of his own.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 13:19:49 2001
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! (physics/0108005)
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At 10:54 AM 8/6/1, hamdi ucar wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>This is no doubt the next important achievement on gravity research.
>
>Really excited, hamdi ucar
>
>http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005
>

My previous post now corrected:

If real, then this is a major advancement with regard to space drives, even
if  the force obeys Newton's third law, i.e. that there is an equal but
opposite force applied to the generator itself.  If force can be applied in
a a beam-like fashion then Paul Hill of NASA in his book *Unconventional
Flyining Objects* had it exactly right.  Such a force can be used to
eliminate air resistance and also to push against the earth or sun in order
to achieve propulsion.  He deduced the existence of such a force from his
analsis of UFO sightings, at least one of which was a very remakable
sighting of his own.

If the force does not obey Newton's third law, then a generator mounted at
one end of a ship can apply and unbalanced force to the other end of the
ship, and thus achieve propulsion.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 14:16:14 2001
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From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese!
 (physics/0108005)
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Gnorts -

That new paper reads like science fiction, but if it's real ...

The question of COE still nags in their experiments. When the beam 
does work on something, it *should* be absorbed at that point. It 
appears to me that rigid fixed matter like brick walls and steel 
plates don't allow much work to be done, and moveable air in the beam 
path doesn't have much mass over short distances. But when it *moves* 
a pendulum or other bulk matter, that's significant work being done. 
So when a mass is free to move in response to the beam - as if it's 
in free fall to an extent - energy should be absorbed and the beam 
attenuated. The moon! The moon's in free fall (isn't it?), so when it 
gets between us and the sun, it shields gravity anomalously and it's 
edges make for a steeper gradient difference, which registers with 
pendulums and so forth as stronger readings associated with the 
beginning and end of an eclipse. So an object falling towards a 
detector ought to shield gravity, but a similar but stationary fixed 
object should not. "Gravity" in this system would be a pushing force 
working on the moon towards the earth. Sounds crazy, and wrong. 
Probably is both. Not to say that someone's necessarily wrong just 
because they're crazy!

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 16:28:06 2001
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Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! 
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Horace Heffner wrote:
> 
> >
> >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005
> >
> 
> If real, then this IS a major advancement with regard to space drives,
> PROVIDED and assumed that the force obeys Newton's second law, i.e. that
> there is an eqaul but opposite force applied to the generator itself.

Hi Horace,

I think there is difficulty with Newton's third law compliance here. The effect may not understand by term of forces. I mean applying a force (on something) does not need energy, only displacement * force require energy. 

This phenomenon look like throwing bullets to create forces.  3'rd law holds as both the gun and the target experience momentum, but energy equation is different. Energy consumed by the gun for e given force is increasing with the speed of the bullet. If 
the speed of light is considered large amount of energy is required to obtain forces which can deviate pendulums.

Energy provided by HV source is clearly not enough for this model. Of course it is possible that the device generating the required energy by itself as a free energy. But It would better to find another solution which does not require free energy or viola
tion of CE.

The reason that I try to avoid conventional forces (to explain the phenomenon) like newtonian gravity is the difficulty of zero or  negligible counter forces (if 3'rd law applies) on the device. For example if the device oriented into the earth, it will p
ush every matter in its cylindrical beam. This make a huge amount. 

On bullet model, may a solution can be found for the 3'rd law problem, but I feel there will be no satisfactory solution.

So I am looking for a model having no counter forces on device where the device work as an agent to affect behavior of targeted objects their interaction with gravity. The beam should alter targeted object so their gravitational interactions become anisot
ropic. Earth gravitation force on the object behave asymmetrical and pendulum deviate. There is no force extracted to the target by the device directly so the Newton 3'rd law is now violated.
there is still COE problem, but the systems entering energy equations include Earth and possibly other gravitational sources on the universe, so it may be considered an open system. I dont care to much on COE on such a open system.

I think the gravity is a statistical behavior (stochastic) 

This like the how the randomly moving atoms in a gas make the gas stable. Despite each atoms in a gas move in a particular direction at a moment, cumulatively these movements cancel each others. Microscopically (maybe named as quantum gravity) would be ve
ry different in nature (dynamic, directional, etc.) than the  macroscopic gravity we feel, and because the self cancellation we experience the gravity is so weak compared to electric and magnetic forces. But if its homogen statistical character is broken 
gravity may act differently, May the connection between superconductors and gravitational anomalies lies here, as the superconductors provide macroscopic quantum state, thus destroying or degenerating the macroscopic, statistical behavior of the gravity a
nd show its microscopic nature.

May some of sentences are poorly written and need revising, please ask me and I will write them more understandible.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 16:54:31 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
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Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! (physics/0108005)
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A great paper Hamdi. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

A related phenomena MAY be the Morton Effect, first described in Electric
Spacecraft, http://www.electricspacecraft.com/bissues.htm
(#'s 4, 29, 30, 31,) where a high KV discharge disturbed some (shielded)
powder
at some distance. This occurred in-line with the spark also, I believe.

There is another possibly related paper in the 2001 June issue. (#32.)
Emeritus
Professor Les Hale of Penn State University describes how Electric
Polarization Waves from lightning-related electric fields, when rapidly
applied, will penetrate normal metallic shielding much more deeply than
predicted by the mathematical concept of skin depth.

     "Depending on the geometry, the polarization waves will frequently
penetrate the shielding virtually unattenuated, because in the 1-D
approximation they satisfy curl E = 0, and hence have no time-varying
magnetic fields."
( Les Hale. ESJ. June 2001. Issue #32, p.8 )

I note that neither of these effects were listed under "other possible
explanations".

IMHO, the use of high strength electric fields and/or supercurrents in
probing the relationship to inertial and gravitational mass is a worthy of
research even without the use of SC's . (KIS)

Best Regards,
Colin Quinney

----- Original Message -----
From: "hamdi ucar" <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
To: "vortex" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 3:54 AM
Subject: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese!
(physics/0108005)
<snip>
> http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 19:01:14 2001
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Subject: Captain Nemo and his Submarine
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My, the border between fact and fiction does get blurred.

As I recall from reading Vern's 'Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea" many
decades ago, the original submarine was electrically powered by batteries
using sea water as an electrolyte. Electricity was quite new at the time,
and Vern's descriptions were plausible in the context of the age.

In the later film version, nuclear power was known, so Captain Nemo draws
aside a heavy shield to show our protagonist a brilliant, energetic spot of
light (probably an arc lamp) with comment about how he harnessed the energy
of the cosmos. Other scenes of his hidden island base were quite up-to-date,
with large microwave dishes pointed at the sky communicating with who? or
what?

Mike Carrell


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 19:51:57 2001
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Bruce Meland wrote:
> 
> Hey Gary have you ever heard of Pork Barrel Projects? Bruce
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Vesperman <gvesperman hotmail.com>
> Date: Saturday, July 14, 2001 8:48 PM
> Subject: Sun's energy is not thermonuclear fusion
> 
> >Hello!
> >
> >I had asked Hal Fox to send me the attached article that was published in
> >the Journal of New Energy earlier this year.
> >
> >What these Russian scientists are claiming is that the sun does NOT produce
> >its energy from thermonuclear fusion. So therefore, the federal
> government's

Hi,
Of course--what a rediculous idea.  The heavy elements
are expected to
be in the center of the sun, and that's where the
energy comes from!

How many times must they run the solar neutrino
experiment? 'til they find
the result they want?  Remember if the theory and
experiment disagree, the theory
wins.

According to Larson's reciprocal systems, the sun's
energy is from the
conversion of the mass of the heavy elements to energy.

See:
http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/rs/cwkvk/sunpart1.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 21:50:15 2001
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At 07:51 PM 8/6/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi,
>Of course--what a rediculous idea.  The heavy elements
>are expected to
>be in the center of the sun, and that's where the
>energy comes from!
>
>How many times must they run the solar neutrino
>experiment? 'til they find
>the result they want?  Remember if the theory and
>experiment disagree, the theory
>wins.

Backwards...  If the experiment does not produce the expected results then 
ether the experiment was not properly designed or the base "hypotheses" is 
in error.

However...  I have noticed a correlation with the mass of a celestial body 
and the temperature.  :-)




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 22:21:33 2001
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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 00:20:55 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Discovery Channel, WEIRD SCIENCE, looking for demos
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I heard that Tom Bearden's work is being replicated by an independent 
group of researchers courtesy of the DOE. that's the second weirdest 
thing I know of. The first would be Robert Cook's drive. We were 
going out to the Golden State to visit him, I should take a video 
camera along

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 22:21:36 2001
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>Hamdi Ucar posted;



>It may be little ironic but I just think the Podkletnov new device 
>can be used to send

Your posting on the Podkletnov device reminds me of a question I 
have. Hal Puthoff was granted a patent about 27 months ago. He 
generated a pulse by using a caduces or other counter wound coil, and 
detected it with a Josephson Juncture housed in a Faraday cage. I 
assume that this wave is different, but you know what happens when 
you assume. I've been questioning every one I know about the nature 
of the waves that Puthoff generated. Since they went through a 
Faraday Cage, they have to nonhertzian.

What do you think about the nature of these waves? Might they be Gravitrons?


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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 00:20:55 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Subject: Re: D-D Water Fusion by LF-HF Sound Waves
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>  >Later, Dr. Nemo, Nikola Tesla, and Marconi all moved in together to
>>build flying saucers in the giant underground canvern cities in S.
>
>this makes perfect sense, Rick, especially when you realize that those
>three last names, taken together, are an anagram for "Alien Comet on Mars."
>
>perhaps somebody should point this out to Richard Hoagland...
>
>r

Some people obviously have all together too much time on their hands.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug  6 22:21:46 2001
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>thomas malloy wrote:
>
>>  >Started by Joe Firmage, remember him?
>>  >
>>  >Terry
>>
>>  The name is familar, but I don't recall any details.
>
>CEO and founder of US Web who abandoned his company to pursue
>aliens.  Big news a couple o' years ago.

I knew I recognized the name, I listened to him interviewed on Art 
Bell. Everyone who has anything to do with the space brothers 
develops a similar screwy new age philosophy.


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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Planar Circular Currents
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                     Planar Circular Currents

OBJECTIVE

It will be shown that circular current, in addition to the ordinary inverse
cube magnetic dipole field, can be expected to produce a relativisitic
electrostatic field, even as observed in the reference frame of the planar
current.  This electrostatic field is inverse square, but its magnitude and
polarity is dependent upon the location of the observer with respect to the
axis and plane of the circular current.


BACKGROUND AND ASSUMPTIONS

It is well known that special relativity predicts changes in the observed
field of a particle due to the flattening of the field in the direction of
motion.  This flattening is due to application of the Lorentz contraction
due to relative motion.  This relativistic effect of flattening the
apparent field is called the "pancaking" of the Coulombic field.  It is the
intent here to discuss the effects of pancaking with respect to planar
circular direct currents.

On p.492 of *The Electromagnetic Field*, Albert Shadowitz provides the
equation for relativistic (Coulombic) field pancaking as:

   E = Q/(4 Pi e0 r^2)  (1 - (v^2/c^2))/(1 - (v^2/c^2) sin^2 theta)^(3/2)

If we let b = v^2/c^2 then we can interpret apparent charge Q' to be:

   Q' = Q (1 - b)/(1 - b sin^2 theta)^(3/2)

which can be interpreted to mean apparent charge is reduced to observers in
line with the charge velocity vector and increased as the viewing angle is
increased.

NOTE - it is not standard physics to interpret pancaking as a change in
apparent charge (standard relativity assumes charge is invariant with
velocity) but rather a change in observed field strength, but we should be
able to interpret the pancaking equation for Q' either way.

Consider the Bohr model of the atom where the electrons whiz around a
nucleus. Specific electrons present some degree of pancaking from any angle
viewed.  In some directions apparent charge is increased and some
directions decreased.  In a non-magnetic medium, the polar orientation of
atom orbitals is mixed in a uniform way due to the orientation of atoms
being mixed in a uniform way.  Upon integration over 3D polar coordinates,
one finds that the average net charge change, according to the pancaking
equation, for randomly oriented atoms and orbitals, is zero.  However, the
conditions examined here differ from those of an atom not in the presence
of ambient electronmagnetic fields, as do the resulting forces.


ANALYSIS OF THE RELATIVISTIC PANCAKING EFFECT

If some set of orbitals are aligned, say by a magnetic field, or if we have
the case of a planar circular current in a conductor, a neutral medium,
then the average apparent charge (as viewed from a long enough distance to
make the circle diameter insignificant) does not net out to zero, except at
a specific viewing angle.  As viewed within the plane, pancaking reduces
the apparent charge of charges in motion, and increases the apparent charge
of charges in circular motion as viewed from the poles of the circular
motion.

The net apparent charge of a charge moving in a small circle relative to
the distance of the viewer comes from integrating to find the average value
of:

   k(theta,v)  = (1 - b)/(1 - b sin^2 theta)^(3/2)

for theta = 0 to 2Pi, where b = v^2/c^2, and then subtracting the average
value from one to obtain the net charge change factor K(v), because if v =
0 then the observed (apparent) charge Q' is the same as the charge Q:

   Q' = Q * 1

If the average value of k(theta,v) is non-zero, when integrated over all
angles theta, for v not 0, then an average apparent net charge exists when
v not 0.

The average value f_avg of any function f(x) is given by:

    f_avg(x) = 1/(b - a) [integral from a to b][ f(x) dx ]

so the value of net charge change factor K(v) = 1 - [average over theta of
k(theta,v)] is given by:

    K(v) = 1 - 1/(2 Pi - 0) [integral from 0 to 2 Pi][ k(theta) d theta ]

which requires solving an elliptic integral of the second kind, and yields
a  net charge:

   Q_net = K(v) Q

where K(v) can be approximately based on the average speed of the electrons.

Note that in the 3D situation the averaging integral equivalent to the
above would be

   [Integral from 0 to Pi] [k(theta) sin(theta) d theta]

because it is necessary to average over theta with a weight of sin(theta)
to account for the surface area involved.  This integral evaluates to one,
thus K(v) evaluates to zero.  However, in the planar version, K(v) does not
average to zero.


NUMERICAL APPROXIMATION OF THE PANCAKING EFFECT

The average values k_avg(v) of k(theta,v) for random planar orientations as
viewed from the plane were directly calculated by computer program, thus
producing the incremental force factor:

  K(v)  =  1 - k_avg(v)

over a complete circle, for theta = 0 to 2 Pi.  Results for various values
of v/c are shown in Table 1:

            v/c             K(v)

           .999999   0.363371045179493
           .5        6.57845423323069D-02
           .1        2.50470713873419D-03
           .01       2.5000468772296D-05
           .001      2.50000048662713D-07
           .0001     2.50000153911856D-09

          Table 1 - Direct numerical estimation of K(v)


These factors indicate the possibility of huge apparent net charges,
especially from electrons moving at the speed of k shell electrons (if such
could be made to move in a planar orbit.).  The innermost electrons of Fe
have an ionization potential of 9277.69 eV, and Ni has 10775.40 eV.  Using
half the ionization potential of Ni as electron kinetic energy we obtain:

   1/2 m_e v^2 = (10775.4 eV)/2 = 8.63 J

           v = 4.35x10^7 m/s

           v = 0.145 c

so more than 0.25 percent of the total charge for such electrons would
appear as net apparent positive charge in the atom, if a sufficiently
strong magnetic field could be applied so as to make K shell orbitals
nearly flat (an astronomical magnitude magnetic field to be sure!)



ANALYTICAL SOLUTION USING MATHEMATICA

In order to obtain an exact form of the integral, Mathematica was used to
integrate the pancake function obtaining a finite integral. Unfortunately a
complete elliptic integral of the second kind appears in the solution.

The average value f_avg of any function f(x) is given by:

    f_avg = 1/(b - a) [integral from a to b][ f(x) dx ]

so the value of net charge change factor K_incr(v) = 1 - k_avg is given by:

    K_incr(v) = 1 - 1/(2 Pi - 0) [integral from 0 to 2 Pi][ k(theta) d theta ]

Mathematica says:

   [integral from 0 to 2 Pi] [ (1 - b sin^2 theta)^(-3/2) d theta]

is given by:

    -(EllipticE[x, b]/(-1 + b)) + (b*Sin[2*x])/(Sqrt[2]*(-1 + b)*
                      Sqrt[2 - b + b*Cos[2*x]])

which, when evaluated from 0 to 2 Pi, is

    -4(EllipticE[b])/(b-1)

where EllipticE[b] is a complete elliptic integral of the second kind. So:


    K(v)  = 1 - 1/(2 Pi - 0) [integral from 0 to 2 Pi][ k(theta) d theta ]

          = 1 - 1/(2 Pi) (1-b) [integral from 0 to 2 Pi]
                                [ (1 - b sin^2 theta)^(-3/2) d theta]

          =  1 - 1/(2 Pi) (1-b)  (-4(EllipticE[b])/(b-1))

          = 1 - 4/(2 Pi)  EllipticE[b]

    K(v)  = 1 - 2 Pi  EllipticE[v^2/c^2]

or more appropriately:

    K(v) = 1 - 2 Pi  EllipticE[v^2/c^2]

Through use of Mathematica, the following confirming  values of K(v) were
obtained:


                                      Mathematica evaluation of K(v) =
        v/c            K(v)             1 - 2 EllipticE[(v/c)^2]/Pi

      .999999   0.363371045179493         0.363375
      .5        6.57845423323069D-02      0.0657845
      .1        2.50470713873419D-03      0.00250471
      .01       2.5000468772296D-05       0.0000250005
      .001      2.50000048662713D-07      2.5e-7
      .0001     2.50000153911856D-09      2.5e-9

     Table 2


Thus it appears there is some evidence for a predicted net apparent charge,
when matter is viewed in a plane containing the matter and normal to the
magnetic field, in both neutral condensed matter and plasmas, or even
magnetron chambers, if a sufficient magnetic field is present.  The fact
that apparent charge does not manifest in condensed matter might be
construed to confirm the QM view that the "electron is everywhere" in the
wave function, or that it has no specific location until sampled.  There is
thus no radiation from atoms because the orbital electrons do not actually
"move."

Plasma electrons are not so constrained by the QM boundaries as electrons
in atoms though.  The upper bound on the possible effect is less, due to
lower velocities, but still significant.

It should be noted that this speculation so far ignores the effects of
charge acceleration and general relativity effects.

Now, to evaluate the integral giving k(b) for b = (v/c)^2, b small.  Given
the first few terms of EllipticE:

  EllipticE[b] = Pi/2 - (Pi b^2)/8 - (3 Pi b^2)/128 +  ...

we can evaluate the integral giving k(b) for b = (v/c)^2, b small:

  K(v) = 1 - 2 EllipticE[b]/Pi

       = 1 - 2 {1/2 - b/8 - 3 b^2/128}

  K(v) =  b/4 + (3/64) (b^2)

which is pretty good, and for many things

  K(v) = b/4

works OK too, or the series

  K(v) =  (1/4) b + (3/64) (b^2) + (5/256) (b^3) + (175/16384) (b^4) + ...

can be used to compute the degree of accuracy desired.

It is interesting though, that:

    EllipticE[1] = 1

so, a limit to the effect is provided by:

    K(c) = 1 - 2 EllipticE[q]/Pi

         = 1 - 2/Pi = 0.363380227632


EXAMINATION OF THE PANCAKING EFFECT

Let's assume uniform circular motion, i.e. DC current, in a charge balanced
medium.  It is commonly assumed there is then no induction.  However, it is
often stated that accelerating charges produce fields, so perhaps the
uniform acceleration of charges about the circle produce a field that
precisely cancels the pancake effect field computed above.  This would be
a very unusual field that uniform charge acceleration about the circle must
produce if it exactly cancels the special relativistic (SR) Coulomb field
of a circle current, which is non-conservative.  Given the SR Coulombic
field pancaking equation and b = v^2/c^2, we have:

   k(theta) = (1 - b)/(1 - b sin^2 theta)^(3/2)

At theta = 90 deg we have:

   k(Pi/2) = (1 - b)(1 - b)^(-3/2)

            = (1 - b)^(-1/2) = gamma(v)

which represents an apparent charge increase for every charge as viewed
from a point on the major axis and distant from the circle.  The charge
motion, from the polar vantage point,  is viewed from the "side" at
approximately 90 degrees.

At theta = 0 deg. we have:

   K(v) = b/2 + ...

which represents an apparent charge decrease.  Using q' to designate the
apparent charge observed for an actual current bearing charge q, this gives
the following picture from the perspective of the velocity dependent SR
field component:




          q' = q * gamma      (q' > q)


              (-)

               N
               |
               |
  (+)      o   |   x     (+)            q' = q * K(v)      (q' < q)
               |
               |
               S
            Magnetic
             Poles

              (-)


          o - current out of page (electrons into page)
          x - current into page (electrons out of page)
         (+) - positive net apparent charge
         (-) - negative net apparent charge

      Fig. 1 - Diagram of SR based Coulombic field


Note that, because the proposed current is carried by electrons moving
within a positive medium, that the field is positive to the sides.  If the
current were carried by positive charge, the SR Coulombic field would be
reversed.


SOME POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES

It might be conjectured at this point that the Podkletnov antigravity
experiment that NASA has been replicating, which uses a current carrying
levitated spinning superconducting ring, does not show any artificial
gravity because NASA is using a sensitive gravitometer.  The field
predicted looking at the pancake effect is electrostatic.  Such a field
might achieve the effect Podkletnov first noticed, namely that smoke rose
above the spinning superconducting disk.  It may be that the smoke
particles were somewhat ionized.  However, all the antigravity effects
reported by Podkletnov can not be justified by the means discussed here,
because the suggested electrostatic field would induce attracting charges
on neutral objects.  The effect would also be expected to be too small
based on the special relativistic effects analysed so far.  It is of
interest that, due to the Faraday ice pail effect, shielding for the
suggested inverse square force, which is electrostatic in nature, can not
be easily achieved.

The numbers can be significant for current carrying masses spinning at very
high velocities, and in cases where very strong magnetic fields are
involved and thus affecting atomic structure and alignment, and might
provide an explanation for polar jets observed for fast spinning
astronomical objects. In addition, a net anti-gravitational force from flat
galaxies, or more specifically from magnetically aligned spinning
structures within them, is predicted by the proposed theory.  It is of
further interest that if the proposed relativistic potential exists then
conservation of energy is violated, free energy devices can be made.
However, due to the small nature of the suggested forces superconductors
would likely need to be employed to readily detect the effects discussed
here.

It is notable that an oscillating circular current should produce an
associated relativisitic oscillating Coulomb field, and that the
oscillation of this field would be longitudinal in nature, and tend to be
comparatively unshieldable.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 04:05:52 2001
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Charles Ford wrote:
> 
> At 07:51 PM 8/6/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hi,
> >Of course--what a rediculous idea.  The heavy elements
> >are expected to
> >be in the center of the sun, and that's where the
> >energy comes from!
> >
> >How many times must they run the solar neutrino
> >experiment? 'til they find
> >the result they want?  Remember if the theory and
> >experiment disagree, the theory
> >wins.
> 
> Backwards...  If the experiment does not produce the expected results then
> ether the experiment was not properly designed or the base "hypotheses" is
> in error.

Of course, that's a joke, but also a comment on how
modern "science" seems
to work these days--being blind to all the data that
refutes one's theory :-(.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 07:05:15 2001
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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:00:55 -0700
From: Jones Beene <jonesb9 pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Planar Circular Currents
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Hi Horace,

> It will be shown that circular current, in addition to the ordinary
inverse
> cube magnetic dipole field, can be expected to produce a relativisitic
> electrostatic field....

Just a quick note on a related issue that might be of interest to you if you
decide to pursue this line of reasoning further...

>From past correspondence, I seem to remember that you have not studied the
Mills "orbitsphere" concept - which also has a number of gravity
implications (i.e. the free electron, being essential planar, feels no
gravity - only structures with curvature.

The ultimate implications of Mills theory are very interesting and there is
has been some lively discussion between Mills and Peter Zimmerman on the
hydrino forum that might be of interest to you. The messages are archived
at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hydrino

Regards,

Jones Beene

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 08:17:23 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sun's energy is not thermonuclear fusion
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At 04:05 AM 8/7/01 -0700, you wrote:
> > >
> > >How many times must they run the solar neutrino
> > >experiment? 'til they find
> > >the result they want?  Remember if the theory and
> > >experiment disagree, the theory
> > >wins.
> >
> > Backwards...  If the experiment does not produce the expected results then
> > ether the experiment was not properly designed or the base "hypotheses" is
> > in error.
>
>Of course, that's a joke, but also a comment on how
>modern "science" seems
>to work these days--being blind to all the data that
>refutes one's theory :-(.

  Gots-ya...   I missed the humor in it last night.  You are right.  There 
is more truth then comedy there.

Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 09:13:23 2001
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thomas malloy wrote:
> 
> >Hamdi Ucar posted;
> 
> >It may be little ironic but I just think the Podkletnov new device
> >can be used to send
> 
> Your posting on the Podkletnov device reminds me of a question I
> have. Hal Puthoff was granted a patent about 27 months ago. He
> generated a pulse by using a caduces or other counter wound coil, and
> detected it with a Josephson Juncture housed in a Faraday cage. I
> assume that this wave is different, but you know what happens when
> you assume. I've been questioning every one I know about the nature
> of the waves that Puthoff generated. Since they went through a
> Faraday Cage, they have to nonhertzian.
> 
> What do you think about the nature of these waves? Might they be Gravitrons?

I dont know, I did not examined the patent yet. As I know gravitons are hypotetical particles. I dont know their nature.  Do you have some references?

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 10:22:46 2001
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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:28:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Radioactive decay chain of Radon
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	Is the radioactive decay chain of radon benign?

	It is claimed that it decays into harmless inert lead.

	What would be the steps and how long would this take.  

	My understanding is that radom is to be used to power a safe
	
	radioactive based battery.

	Are there any safe radioactive breakdown chains known?


	Thank you,


				John

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From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
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Subject: Re: Planar Circular Currents
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Horace,
	Isn't the angle theta the polar angle in your first equation? Why
integrate it from 0 to 2pi. That is twice around.

Hank

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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: It may be possible to ...
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>thomas malloy wrote:
>>
>>  >Hamdi Ucar posted;
>>
>>  >It may be little ironic but I just think the Podkletnov new device
>>  >can be used to send
>>
>>  Your posting on the Podkletnov device reminds me of a question I
>>  have. Hal Puthoff was granted a patent about 27 months ago. He
>>  generated a pulse by using a caduces or other counter wound coil, and
>>  detected it with a Josephson Juncture housed in a Faraday cage. I
>>  assume that this wave is different, but you know what happens when
>>  you assume. I've been questioning every one I know about the nature
>>  of the waves that Puthoff generated. Since they went through a
>>  Faraday Cage, they have to nonhertzian.
>>
>>  What do you think about the nature of these waves? Might they be Gravitrons?

Hamdi Ucar responded

>I dont know, I did not examined the patent yet. As I know gravitons 
>are hypotetical particles. I dont know their nature.  Do you have 
>some references?

I assumed that the pulse in question as a gravity pulse, which would 
make them gravitrons. There was a posting last month about a 
gravitron conference coming up in Japan.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 15:32:27 2001
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Subject: Re: Radioactive decay chain of Radon
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John Schnurer wrote:

>         Is the radioactive decay chain of radon benign?

Radon is part of longer decay chains starting with Th232, U238 or U235
and ending with various isotopes of lead.  The emissions from the
various isotopes are not benign if the material is ingested into the
body.  No problem exists as long as the material is outside of the
body.

>
>
>         It is claimed that it decays into harmless inert lead.

Yes, that is true.

>
>
>         What would be the steps and how long would this take.

The decay chains are too complex to list here.  You should consult a
reference book on the subject.  Depending on the isotope, the time from
Rn to Pb is measured in days.

>
>
>         My understanding is that radom is to be used to power a safe
>
>         radioactive based battery.

Unlikely because radon is an inert gas which would be hard to contain
and has a short half-life.

>
>
>         Are there any safe radioactive breakdown chains known?

No, not if the material is within the body.  The decay chains involving
mostly alpha emission would be safe outside of the body.  These
typically involve the heavy elements.

Ed

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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Edmund Storms <storms2 ix.netcom.com>
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Subject: Re: Radioactive decay chain of Radon
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	Dear Ed,

	The claim is to power a battery with radon and that this is safe
because the decay from radon to lead is safe.

	Can this be done by amateurs and can it be used in the home under 
usual household conditions?

	If not, what general precautions would be general to take?

	Please.

	Do you want me to try to find the claim?

			J

On Tue, 7 Aug 2001, Edmund Storms wrote:

> 
> 
> John Schnurer wrote:
> 
> >         Is the radioactive decay chain of radon benign?
> 
> Radon is part of longer decay chains starting with Th232, U238 or U235
> and ending with various isotopes of lead.  The emissions from the
> various isotopes are not benign if the material is ingested into the
> body.  No problem exists as long as the material is outside of the
> body.
> 
> >
> >
> >         It is claimed that it decays into harmless inert lead.
> 
> Yes, that is true.
> 
> >
> >
> >         What would be the steps and how long would this take.
> 
> The decay chains are too complex to list here.  You should consult a
> reference book on the subject.  Depending on the isotope, the time from
> Rn to Pb is measured in days.
> 
> >
> >
> >         My understanding is that radom is to be used to power a safe
> >
> >         radioactive based battery.
> 
> Unlikely because radon is an inert gas which would be hard to contain
> and has a short half-life.
> 
> >
> >
> >         Are there any safe radioactive breakdown chains known?
> 
> No, not if the material is within the body.  The decay chains involving
> mostly alpha emission would be safe outside of the body.  These
> typically involve the heavy elements.
> 
> Ed
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 18:10:56 2001
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From: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
Subject: Re: D-D Water Fusion by LF-HF Sound Waves
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>>  >Later, Dr. Nemo, Nikola Tesla, and Marconi all moved in together to
>>>build flying saucers in the giant underground canvern cities in S.
>>
>>this makes perfect sense, Rick, especially when you realize that those
>>three last names, taken together, are an anagram for "Alien Comet on Mars."
>>
>>perhaps somebody should point this out to Richard Hoagland...
>>
>>r
>
>Some people obviously have all together too much time on their hands.

and other people use anagram generator programs that make doing things
like that very quick and easy...



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 18:52:42 2001
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From: "Nick Reiter" <reit ezworks.net>
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Subject: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:45:50 -0400
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Finally was able to download and read the paper by P and M.  Two thoughts
come to mind:

1.  I have to say that it really seems like the Morton Effect!  WIthout the
experimental backing I am left with conjecture, but my prediction would be
that the YBCO will end up being a "red herring".  Nevertheless, I am
delighted at this paper, because it will inspire a whole new crop of
experimenters to try it,  many of them without the YBCO.  Thus, some sorely
needed replications of Morton's claims might be forthcoming.  On a related
note, what has become of Mr. Morton over these past few years?

2.  The effect, with or without the YBCO, could be well modelled from the
perspective of an aether reaction.  If we consider that aether produces a
gravitational force only when flowing in an accelerating or decelerating
manner (an example would be convergence into the earth, or other mass),
then the Morton Effect, or this new discovery, could be a "jerking" or
abrupt acceleration of aether, producing an anti-gravity like force on
masses.

NR

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug  7 19:26:07 2001
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Planar Circular Currents
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At 7:00 AM 8/7/1, Jones Beene wrote:
>Hi Horace,
>
>> It will be shown that circular current, in addition to the ordinary
>inverse
>> cube magnetic dipole field, can be expected to produce a relativisitic
>> electrostatic field....
>
>Just a quick note on a related issue that might be of interest to you if you
>decide to pursue this line of reasoning further...
>
>From past correspondence, I seem to remember that you have not studied the
>Mills "orbitsphere" concept - which also has a number of gravity
>implications (i.e. the free electron, being essential planar, feels no
>gravity - only structures with curvature.
>
>The ultimate implications of Mills theory are very interesting and there is
>has been some lively discussion between Mills and Peter Zimmerman on the
>hydrino forum that might be of interest to you. The messages are archived
>at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hydrino
>


Thanks for the ref.  Unfortunately I haven't had either time or money for
my amateur physics lately.  Maybe this winter I can start up some efforts
again.  I don't know.  My house is still in a
do-it-yourself-as-slow-as-molasses remodelling mess so experiments are not
readily done.

There were specific accusations a while back that Mills had plagerized
significant parts of his material.  Was that ever resolved?

BTW, you may have noticed that missing from the recent "Planar Circle
Current" post, a post which I have made a number of times over recent
years, a significant amount of material regarding expected fields due to
relativisic effects of charge acceleration has been deleted.  Such fields
were predicted to be large enough to check by simple experiment, and found
not to exist.  It seems much more likely that the presently suggested much
smaller special relativistic electrostatic field exists, because special
relativity can be used to describe the magnetic effects, i.e. eliminate the
need for the "existence" of a magnetic field at all.  If special relativity
is correct, and also if magnetic fields exist as real entities, with the
Lorentz force not being the result of relativity, then the Lorentz force
should be double that observed in at least some circumstances.   It is well
known that the nature of an electrostatic or magnetic field is all
relative.  It is well known that the observation of the quantity of
magnetic vs electrostatic effects from a given current in a neutral
conductor is dependent on the relative motion of the observer.  What that I
have shown that is unexpected is merely that the electrostatic component is
typically not zero when the observer is not in motion with respect to the
current circle center, and that this non-zero field is not energy
conservative.  A small thing it is, but very significant if it exists.

I think it is amazing that relativistic effects can be so large at such
small velocities.  The reason the static magnetic field, such a powerful
field, can be created by application of relativity to the electrostatic
field of electrons moving in wires, is that there is such a large charge
density involved.  It could be that there is some similar relativistic
effect that can account for Podkletnov's results - if they are real.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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Subject: Re: Planar Circular Currents
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At 11:28 AM 8/7/1, hank scudder wrote:
>Horace,
>        Isn't the angle theta the polar angle in your first equation? Why
>integrate it from 0 to 2pi. That is twice around.
>
>Hank


Pi radians = 180 deg.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! 	 (physics/0108005)
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At 2:28 AM 8/7/1, hamdi ucar wrote:
>Horace Heffner wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005
>> >
>>
>> If real, then this IS a major advancement with regard to space drives,
>> PROVIDED and assumed that the force obeys Newton's second law, i.e. that
>> there is an eqaul but opposite force applied to the generator itself.
>
>Hi Horace,
>
>I think there is difficulty with Newton's third law compliance here. The
>effect may not understand by term of forces. I mean applying a force (on
>something) does not need energy, only displacement * force require energy.
>


Yes, but I think it is important to note that in either case, compliance
with Newton's third or not, that a space drive can be made from a device
that perfoms as specified.  Offhand, it seems to me that a liquid or gas
target might be best, since the target can then readily absorb momentum.


>
>This phenomenon look like throwing bullets to create forces.  3'rd law
>holds as both the gun and the target experience momentum, but energy
>equation is different. Energy consumed by the gun for e given force is
>increasing with the speed of the bullet. If the speed of light is
>considered large amount of energy is required to obtain forces which can
>deviate pendulums.

Yes, there is a violation of the invariant c = E/p, so the force can not
carried by the photon unless it is by the virtual photon in the form of a
near field interaction, similar to the force between two magnets.  Such a
force might be carried by a "virtual photon laser"?   Perhaps the force
might not be carried by intermediary particles at all, but represent true
action at a distance, an instantaneously mediated force?



>
>Energy provided by HV source is clearly not enough for this model. Of
>course it is possible that the device generating the required energy by
>itself as a free energy. But It would better to find another solution
>which does not require free energy or violation of CE.


This is an excellent point.  In fact, no matter how you cut it, an inirtial
drive of any kind will violate COE on a local Newtonian basis, and this
device can be used as an inirtial drive.

One thought I had was the possibility that some kind of energy confining
tube is being created by the device.  This would account for the narrow
beam and lack of 1/r^2 dispersion.  However, is some kind of energy
confinement can be generated, then such a packet might be capable
accumulating zero point energy?

It is an interesting and well known effect that when a potential is applied
across a short gap between two superconductors that electrons will tunnel
back and forth across the gap in enormous but synchronized quantities,
thereby creating radio wave emission that dissipates energy from the gap as
if it were a resistor, yet without creating heat.   I this case there may
be tunneling over a somewhat longer distance, due to the enormous voltage
gradient, and it may also be that the gas particles near the face of the
superconducor plate are points of condensation for the electrons.  When
such electrons tunnel, they tend to do so in pairs.   This effect would
create a longitudinal wave front eminating from the superconductor face.
It still remains to how out how such eminations of parallel EM planes can
trap energy from the universe, or otherwise violate COE.


>
>The reason that I try to avoid conventional forces (to explain the
>phenomenon) like newtonian gravity is the difficulty of zero or
>negligible counter forces (if 3'rd law applies) on the device. For example
>if the device oriented into the earth, it will push every matter in its
>cylindrical beam. This make a huge amount.
>
>On bullet model, may a solution can be found for the 3'rd law problem, but
>I feel there will be no satisfactory solution.
>
>So I am looking for a model having no counter forces on device where the
>device work as an agent to affect behavior of targeted objects their
>interaction with gravity. The beam should alter targeted object so their
>gravitational interactions become anisotropic. Earth gravitation force on
>the object behave asymmetrical and pendulum deviate. There is no force
>extracted to the target by the device directly so the Newton 3'rd law is
>now violated.
>there is still COE problem, but the systems entering energy equations
>include Earth and possibly other gravitational sources on the universe, so
>it may be considered an open system. I dont care to much on COE on such a
>open system.

Yes, but mechanism to obtain the energy needs to be explained and verified.


>
>I think the gravity is a statistical behavior (stochastic)
>
>This like the how the randomly moving atoms in a gas make the gas stable.
>Despite each atoms in a gas move in a particular direction at a moment,
>cumulatively these movements cancel each others. Microscopically (maybe
>named as quantum gravity) would be very different in nature (dynamic,
>directional, etc.) than the  macroscopic gravity we feel, and because the
>self cancellation we experience the gravity is so weak compared to
>electric and magnetic forces. But if its homogen statistical character is
>broken gravity may act differently, May the connection between
>superconductors and gravitational anomalies lies here, as the
>superconductors provide macroscopic quantum state, thus destroying or
>degenerating the macroscopic, statistical behavior of the gravity and show
>its microscopic nature.
>
>May some of sentences are poorly written and need revising, please ask me
>and I will write them more understandible.

Everything is very clear - except of course how Podkletnov's results could
be real!

>
>Regards,
>
>hamdi ucar

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 16:02:13 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Nick Reiter's message of Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:45:50 -0400:
[snip]
>1.  I have to say that it really seems like the Morton Effect!  WIthout the
[snip]
I've never heard of this effect, however it also sounds like what Tesla
was working on, with his abrupt discharges that were prevented from
oscillating.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

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Subject: Re: Planar Circular Currents
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:46:37 +1000
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In reply to  Horace Heffner's message of Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:35:05 -0900:
[snip]
>need for the "existence" of a magnetic field at all.  If special relativity
>is correct, and also if magnetic fields exist as real entities, with the
>Lorentz force not being the result of relativity, then the Lorentz force
>should be double that observed in at least some circumstances.   It is well
[snip]
Hi Horace,

This reminds me of Harold Aspden who also claims that magnetic fields
are off by a factor of 2 (1/2?) in some cases. His web site is at 
http://www.energyscience.co.uk/ .


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 03:18:35 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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Nick -

  > I have to say that it really seems like the Morton Effect!

   >>In the year 1966 I discovered that a
   >>VandeGraaff generator gave off an
   >>explosive-like effect when it
   >>discharged. The explosion passed
   >>through plastic boxes but was reflected
   >>from metal. - Charles R. Morton

(from   http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/morton1.html  )


P&M's beam was claimed to punch through an inch thick steel plate!

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 03:56:38 2001
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Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! 	 
 (physics/0108005)
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Horace Heffner wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes, but mechanism to obtain the energy needs to be explained and verified.
> 
> >
> >I think the gravity is a statistical behavior (stochastic)
> >

First nominee for the source of the energy (in my model) is the gravitational field itself. In the frame of stochastic model for gravity that I imagine, required energy can be supplied by a similar mechanism to violation of  2'nd law of thermodynamics, in
 gravity domain. I mean, assumed natural gravity obeys some laws similar to thermodynamics's, this device cause violation its the 2'nd law counterpart.

A mechanism to create trust by  "gravito-dynamic" could be a similar to Peltier effect. Temperature difference created on Peltier cell would be mechanical force or acceleration on gravitational Peltier cell. 

On Peltier effect we need provide energy to opeerate the cell unless the 2'nd law is violated.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner

Regards,

hamdi ucar

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----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.

>    >>discharged. The explosion passed
>    >>through plastic boxes but was reflected
>    >>from metal. - Charles R. Morton
>
> (from   http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/morton1.html  )
>
>
> P&M's beam was claimed to punch through an inch thick steel plate!

******  Good point.  It is possible, I suppose, that the resemblance of
geometry and operation is coincidental.  However, maybe the YBCO is not a
red herring after all, and that it is the Morton Effect scaled up in some
obscure fashion.  Like the difference between a BB gun and a 9mm.  Same
principle - much more power.
   I also was not able to pick up on just how P and M arrived at this
experimental geometry.  Had they stumbled across some of Charles Morton's
work, and decided to soup it up?

NR



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 04:23:11 2001
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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:22:26 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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Nick -

    > I also was not able to pick up on just
    > how P and M arrived at this
    > experimental geometry.  Had they
    > stumbled across some of Charles
    > Morton's work, and decided to soup it
    > up?

That had me wondering too. Doesn't seem like a random thing, does it?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 06:22:12 2001
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Subject: FW: Re: Unified Forces
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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII






Frank, 

 

When you get to the point where you see the Forces  
Converge:

 

Fg = G*m1*m2/R^2 

 

= Fmag = 10-7(qc)^2(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2/R^2

 

= Fes = kq^2(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2/R^2

 

It's time to take a break.  :-)

 

Regards,

--- Frederick Sparber

--- fjsparber earthlink.net 

--- EarthLink: It's your Internet


 



 

 

------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII

<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1251" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=2>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">
<DIV><FONT size=2>Frank, </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>When you get to&nbsp;the point where you see the Forces&nbsp; Converge:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Fg = G*m1*m2/R^2 </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>= Fmag = 10-7(qc)^2(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2/R^2</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>= Fes = kq^2(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2/R^2</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>It's time to take a break.&nbsp; :-)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>--- Frederick Sparber</DIV>
<DIV>--- <A href="mailto:fjsparber earthlink.net">fjsparber@earthlink.net</A></DIV>
<DIV>--- EarthLink: It's your Internet</DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT>
<P></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick Reiter" <reit ezworks.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.


> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
> 
> >    >>discharged. The explosion passed
> >    >>through plastic boxes but was reflected
> >    >>from metal. - Charles R. Morton
> >
> > (from   http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/morton1.html  )
> >
> >
> > P&M's beam was claimed to punch through an inch thick steel plate!
> 
> ******  Good point.  It is possible, I suppose, that the resemblance of
> geometry and operation is coincidental.  However, maybe the YBCO is not a
> red herring after all, and that it is the Morton Effect scaled up in some
> obscure fashion.  Like the difference between a BB gun and a 9mm.  Same
> principle - much more power.
>    I also was not able to pick up on just how P and M arrived at this
> experimental geometry.  Had they stumbled across some of Charles Morton's
> work, and decided to soup it up?
> 
> NR
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 11:00:56 2001
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Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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Hi Nick, Hamdi, Rick, Robin, Horace, and All,

Souped up indeed! But Morton reported that this force passed through metals.
The beam intensity is obviously important, (and so also may be the geometry
or angle of the metals).

   http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/morton1.html
"The spark fired through a glass tube toward a metal plate with a hole in
it. From the tube came a beam of energy unlike anything I had ever heard of.
Plastic and glass ionized instantly, fluorescent tubes lit up, but unlike
the VandeGraaff explosion, this beam of force passed through metals."
(Charles R. Morton.)


I personally do not believe that their configuration and operation is a mere
coincidence. IMO, the YBCO is not a red herring, but it will certainly
have that effect if historical science does not recognise the non-SC
original research of this effect to Morton and Tesla's work. Years of
funding and research will go into probing the gravitational physics of the
superconductor trying to wring out it's secrets, when the REAL work should
first go into probing Tesla's and especially Morton's original work. This
may be
the discovered "particle" beam, or the so-called "death ray" that Tesla
often boasted
of in his later years. As Robin now reminds us, he was reported as doing
research into a beam of aether (ether) particles by abruptly quenching a
heavy discharge. Tesla kept much of his "ray" secret to his grave however,
whereas Morton did not. (And he's still with us.)

This energy may be gravity.
It may be a directed pulse of ether.(or space-time)
It may be an electrostatic compression [potential, longitudinal] wave.
(curl=0).
Or "all of the above".

Obviously some simpler experiments will now have to be done (without SC's)..
to see..  if I know what I'm talking about ;-)

Colin Q

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Reiter" <reit ezworks.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 7:02 AM
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
>
> >    >>discharged. The explosion passed
> >    >>through plastic boxes but was reflected
> >    >>from metal. - Charles R. Morton
> >
> > (from   http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/morton1.html  )
> >
> >
> > P&M's beam was claimed to punch through an inch thick steel plate!
>
> ******  Good point.  It is possible, I suppose, that the resemblance of
> geometry and operation is coincidental.  However, maybe the YBCO is not a
> red herring after all, and that it is the Morton Effect scaled up in some
> obscure fashion.  Like the difference between a BB gun and a 9mm.  Same
> principle - much more power.
>    I also was not able to pick up on just how P and M arrived at this
> experimental geometry.  Had they stumbled across some of Charles Morton's
> work, and decided to soup it up?
>
> NR
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 12:28:43 2001
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http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2001/aug/8/chemtrails.htm

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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Nature Contents: 9 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6847 pp. 569 -
662
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:30:00 -0400
From: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>
Reply-To: Customer Service <tocreplies appserver5.nature.com>
To: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>

Nature - Table of Contents
Now available at http://www.nature.com/nature/

Visit Nature online to browse the content of the current issue,
including articles, letters to Nature, brief communications
and web extras.

Please note that you need to be a subscriber to enjoy full text
access to Nature online. To purchase a subscription, please visit
http://www.nature.com/nature/subscribe/

Nature Contents: 09 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6847
(c)Copyright 2001 Macmillan Publishers Ltd

=====================================================================
 Nature Biotechnology conference 'Realizing Genomic Medicine' 
- December 3 & 4, 2001      

Nature Biotechnology has brought together leading researchers from 
academia and industry to provide insightful analysis of where we are 
now, and to initiate a discussion of where advances in genomic 
medicine are leading us. The meeting is structured around four areas: 

*Target identification 
*Target validation and complexity 
*Infrastructure 
*Drug Design.  

Visit http://www.genomic-med.com for more information and claim 
your early registration discount today.
=====================================================================

=====================================================================
The content listing below carries links to abstracts
=====================================================================

---------------------
articles
---------------------
Structure of the Ku heterodimer bound to DNA and its implications for
double-strand break repair
J R WALKER, R A CORPINA & J GOLDBERG
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412607a0_fs.html

---------------------
letters to Nature
---------------------
History of trace gases in presolar diamonds inferred from
ion-implantation experiments
A P KOSCHEEV, M D GROMOV, R K MOHAPATRA & U OTT
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412615a0_fs.html

Two-dimensional imaging of electronic wavefunctions in carbon
nanotubes
S G LEMAY, J W JANSSEN, M VAN DEN HOUT, M MOOIJ, M J BRONIKOWSKI,
P A WILLIS, R E SMALLEY, L P KOUWENHOVEN & C DEKKER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412617a0_fs.html

Observation of individual vortices trapped along columnar defects
in high-temperature superconductors
A TONOMURA, H KASAI, O KAMIMURA, T MATSUDA, K HARADA, Y NAKAYAMA,
J SHIMOYAMA, K KISHIO, T HANAGURI, K KITAZAWA, M SASASE & S OKAYASU
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412620a0_fs.html

Vacancies in solids and the stability of surface morphology
K F MCCARTY, J A NOBEL & N C BARTELT
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412622a0_fs.html

Generation and characterization of a fairly stable triplet carbene
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Normal faulting in central Tibet since at least 13.5 Myr ago
P M BLISNIUK, B R HACKER, J GLODNY, L RATSCHBACHER, S BI, Z WU,
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Resistance to mantle flow inferred from the electromagnetic strike of
the Australian upper mantle
F SIMPSON
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412632a0_fs.html

Unicellular cyanobacteria fix N2 in the subtropical North Pacific
Ocean
J P ZEHR, J B WATERBURY, P J TURNER, J P MONTOYA, E OMOREGIE,
G F STEWARD, A HANSEN & D M KARL
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412635a0_fs.html

Density-dependent mortality in an oceanic copepod population
M D OHMAN & H-J HIRCHE
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412638a0_fs.html

Erythropoietin-mediated neuroprotection involves cross-talk between
Jak2 and NF-kappaB signalling cascades
M DIGICAYLIOGLU & S A LIPTON
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412641a0_fs.html

Spred is a Sprouty-related suppressor of Ras signalling
T WAKIOKA, A SASAKI, R KATO, T SHOUDA, A MATSUMOTO, K MIYOSHI,
M TSUNEOKA, S KOMIYA, R BARON & A YOSHIMURA
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412647a0_fs.html

General transcription factors bind promoters repressed by Polycomb
group proteins
A BREILING, B M TURNER, M E BIANCHI & V ORLANDO
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412651a0_fs.html

A Drosophila Polycomb group complex includes Zeste and dTAFII
proteins
A J SAURIN, Z SHAO, H ERDJUMENT-BROMAGE, P TEMPST & R E KINGSTON
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412655a0_fs.html

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http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412603a0_fs.html

Anabolism: Low mechanical signals strengthen long bones
C RUBIN, A S TURNER, S BAIN, C MALLINCKRODT & K MCLEOD
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412603b0_fs.html

Vision: Realignment of cones after cataract removal
H S SMALLMAN, D I A MACLEOD & P DOYLE
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412604a0_fs.html

Palaeoceanography: Antarctic stratification and glacial CO2
R F KEELING & M VISBECK
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6847/abs/412605a0_fs.html

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 13:41:25 2001
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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:27:24 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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Ok, is Morton contradicting himself, or am I not reading this right? 
The beam is reflected off metals, the beam goes through metals. 
<shrug>

Also, wouldn't a sharp burst of x-rays light fluorescent bulbs and 
ionize things, which is what he describes? If so, I can see how it 
could send "bits of paper flying". As a result of these experiments, 
"new physics" is claimed to be the answer. All this doesn't help give 
me a very convincing feeling that there's anything new there. I 
wonder if there is a possibility that a sharp burst of xrays with the 
associated ionization could account for the P&M results too?

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 14:56:57 2001
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Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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Hi Rick,

Confusing isn't it? But Charles Yost of the Electric Spacecraft publications
will be sending me the pertinent papers. I spoke to him this afternoon about
the effect and he also mentioned that a charge was "induced" onto distant
metal test objects, so this induced charge may be what was causing the
fluorescence. This is fascinating even if it's not quite the same effect.
I'll review the information when it arrives and maybe we can make more sense
of it then. I think it's important enough to report.

In the meanwhile I can only surmise that beam penetration may depend on the
angle of the metal presented to the beam. For instance, at higher power
levels I would expect it to go through most metals practically unattenuated,
but at a lower power level, if a metal plate were NOT perpendicular to the
beam, it might be more easily observed to reflect and/or refract. Degree of
penetration vs. reflection/refraction may also be a variable depending on
pulse duration. I would expect that any short high-power pulse experiments
would act more like the Podkletnov experiment. Until I see the newer
articles, it's all supposition at this point. Unfortunately, I allowed my
subscription to expire at issue #25 :-(

And if I get around to replicating it, I'll first test for x-rays.

Best,
Colin Q.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Monteverde" <rick highsurf.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.


> Ok, is Morton contradicting himself, or am I not reading this right?
> The beam is reflected off metals, the beam goes through metals.
> <shrug>
>
> Also, wouldn't a sharp burst of x-rays light fluorescent bulbs and
> ionize things, which is what he describes? If so, I can see how it
> could send "bits of paper flying". As a result of these experiments,
> "new physics" is claimed to be the answer. All this doesn't help give
> me a very convincing feeling that there's anything new there. I
> wonder if there is a possibility that a sharp burst of xrays with the
> associated ionization could account for the P&M results too?
>
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 15:54:28 2001
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From: hank scudder <hjscudde newton.csun.edu>
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Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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Rick
	I have run x-ray beams through pieces of paper, and had them char
the paper, which was mounted right across the tube aperture. I am talking
400 keV at 10ma, which is about as powerful an x-ray tube as in used in
industry, but they did not move the paper at all. The actual x-ray power
was just a few watts of x-ray, the rest of the 4 kw went into heat removed
from the tube by fluid. I also have had a negative ion generator operating
in my room, to give good moods, and clean the air. This ran at 75kv and
and no ma and you could feel the ion breeze if you put your hand near the
output wires. The net result of it was to make the metal walls so dirty
that facilities made me stop using it. They weren't at all concerned about
the fact that everybody was breathing the stuff, they just didn't want
dirty walls to clean.

Hank    


On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Ok, is Morton contradicting himself, or am I not reading this right? 
> The beam is reflected off metals, the beam goes through metals. 
> <shrug>
> 
> Also, wouldn't a sharp burst of x-rays light fluorescent bulbs and 
> ionize things, which is what he describes? If so, I can see how it 
> could send "bits of paper flying". As a result of these experiments, 
> "new physics" is claimed to be the answer. All this doesn't help give 
> me a very convincing feeling that there's anything new there. I 
> wonder if there is a possibility that a sharp burst of xrays with the 
> associated ionization could account for the P&M results too?
> 
> - Rick Monteverde
> Honolulu, HI
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 17:29:58 2001
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From: Robert Stirniman <robert skylink.net>
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Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese! 	 (physics/0108005)
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Horace wrote:

> It is an interesting and well known effect that when a potential is applied
> across a short gap between two superconductors that electrons will tunnel
> back and forth across the gap in enormous but synchronized quantities,
> thereby creating radio wave emission that dissipates energy from the gap as
> if it were a resistor, yet without creating heat.   

Hi Horace. Way interesting. 
Do you have any references handy about this?
Thanks.
Robert Stirniman

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 18:59:47 2001
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Check out issues 4, 6, 29, 30, and 31 of the Electric Space Craft
Journal for information on the Morton Effect. See
http://www.electricspacecraft.com/bissues.htm .

Actually, issue 6 has an article  by Klaus Schlecht that describes an
experiment similar to the Morton Effect. It was conducted in 1985. A
reprint of that article also appears in David Hatcher Childress' book,
THE TIME TRAVEL HANDBOOK.

Reading P&G's article, it becomes quite clear that it cannot be a simple
electrostatic effect since this beam passes through many layers of
conductors and insulators without mitigation. It cannot be due to X-rays
because 1) no x-rays were detected using the equipment available
(although this by itself is not reason enough, 2) radiation pressure
from X-rays is way too weak.
Also, from the article, it sounds as if the effect is highly dependent
on the superconducting materials used. If a less than ideal material was
used, then little or no effect was experienced.

Based on his experiments, Charles Yost seems to think (from what I
gather from his articles - I haven't spoken to him) that the effect - if
present - is due to an electrostatic longitudinal wave of some sort.
That would not account for a force through multiple grounded metal
shields, as in the case of the P&B article.

Who knows how those guys stumbled upon that configuration?

Well, it sure makes life interesting!

Nick Reiter wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rick Monteverde <rick highsurf.com>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
> 
> >    >>discharged. The explosion passed
> >    >>through plastic boxes but was reflected
> >    >>from metal. - Charles R. Morton
> >
> > (from   http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/freenrg/morton1.html  )
> >
> >
> > P&M's beam was claimed to punch through an inch thick steel plate!
> 
> ******  Good point.  It is possible, I suppose, that the resemblance of
> geometry and operation is coincidental.  However, maybe the YBCO is not a
> red herring after all, and that it is the Morton Effect scaled up in some
> obscure fashion.  Like the difference between a BB gun and a 9mm.  Same
> principle - much more power.
>    I also was not able to pick up on just how P and M arrived at this
> experimental geometry.  Had they stumbled across some of Charles Morton's
> work, and decided to soup it up?
> 
> NR

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 22:14:40 2001
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References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010803162512.28258B-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
Subject: Re: CAFE Questions  New for Aug 03, 2001]
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Means less emissions and higher milage
----- Original Message ----- 
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:26 PM
Subject: CAFE Questions New for Aug 03, 2001]


> y
> 
> If you Raise the CAFE standard does this mean more emission
>    from the tail pipe?
> 
> 
> J
> 
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug  8 23:59:22 2001
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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 01:56:33 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: [svpvril] Einstein reconsidered
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Fellow Vortexians;

This was posted on the SVP list. I've never heard of Dayton Miller or 
his experiments, or his book on music. The last paragraph is the 
first time I've heard of Einstein advocating an aether.

>Wayne Jr wrote:
>
>>      The current issue of Infinite Energy (vol 7 issue 38 2001) is 
>>a killer.  It has
>>  numerous articles regarding various of Einstein's theories and 
>>sometimes tears them
>>  to shreds.
>>      One article "Dayton Miller's Ether-drift experiments: A fresh 
>>look" by James
>>  DeMeo (page 72) covers material I had never heard of before. 
>>Dayton Miller was an
>>  associate of Michelson & Morley and Dayton did very extensive interferometer
>>  experiments looking for a ether drag over a period of 25 years 
>>with hundreds of
>>  thousands of careful observations, but his results were suppressed 
>>because the big
>>  scientists wanted to back Einstein's relativity theory and 
>>Miller's results showed
>>  that there was an ether drift effect.
>>      In 1921 Einstein wrote to Robert Millikan "I believe I have 
>>really found the
>>  relationship between gravitation and electricity; assuming that the Miller
>>  experiments are based on a fundamental error.  Otherwise the whole 
>>relativity
>>  theory collapses like a house of cards."
>>      Also, the original Michelson-Morley experiment of 1887 upon 
>>which relativity
>>  theory is based consisted of ONLY 6 hours of data collection over 
>>a period of 4
>>  days and even then they obtained a silghtly positive result which has been
>>  systematically ignored by modern physics!
>>      This issue of Infinite Energy is a mind blower!  It's starting 
>>to look more and
>>  more like our current theoretical physicists are like the emporer who had no
>>  clothes.
>
>Dayton Clarence Miller authored a fabulous book on music and sound: 
>"The Science of
>Musical Sound". I think it has been reprinted. It is VERY good and 
>informative and I
>recommend it to all.
>
>"More careful reflection teaches us, however, that the special 
>theory of relativity
>does not compel us to deny ether. We may assume the existence of an 
>ether; only we
>must give up ascribing a definite state of motion to it, i.e., we 
>must by abstraction
>take from it the last mechanical characteristic which Lorentz had 
>still left it...
>[There] is a weighty argument to be advanced in favour of the ether 
>hypothesis. To
>deny ether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical qualities
>whatever. The fundamental facts of mechanics do not harmonize with 
>this view...
>According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is 
>unthinkable; for
>in such space there would not only be no propagation of light, but 
>also no possibility
>of exstence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and -clocks), nor
>therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense." Einstein
>
>
>--
>Life, Love and Laughter,
>Dale Pond
>Sympathetic Vibratory Physics
>Sacred Science - Sacred Life
>http://www.svpvril.com
>SVP Discussion Forum:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svpvril/
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 07:14:55 2001
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From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Discovery Channel, WEIRD SCIENCE, looking for demos
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:21:47 -0700
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On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:50, William Beaty wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Judith <judithfire symptico.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Bill, I'm researching for a documentary on Wierd Science 
being shot for
> > The Learning Channel.  Came across your site and find it 
hisghly
> > entertaining. 
> > 


William,

	Weird Science....interesting....so was Kelly LeBrock
when she did the movie by that name.  Two computer geeks 
with women's bras over their heads cooked her up, stark naked,
in a closet using left over obsolete computers, an old CB radio,
and a toaster....or some such.  
 ...........realllll interesting...........
	
	Anyway, are you sure that you
can use the phrase seeing as the lordly show business 
companies can do no wrong in court these days in their quest
to gull and overcharge and monopolize us out of our money
on whatever specious grounds that bribed judges find not
too outrageous even for them.  Notice that some of the same
bunch that killed Napster for 'stealing' are now in trouble for
fraud for overcharging and price fixing in a series of cases
involving recordings, etc., of the 'Three Tenors'.  Looks like
the only thing those crooks do not like is competition!

Long LIve Gnutella and Linux!

Standing Bear

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 10:12:40 2001
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Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 12:09:57 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Discovery Channel, WEIRD SCIENCE, looking for demos
In-Reply-To: <01080910214701.00884 linux>
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At 10:21 AM 8/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>On Sunday 05 August 2001 12:50, William Beaty wrote:
> > On Sun, 5 Aug 2001, Judith <judithfire symptico.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Bill, I'm researching for a documentary on Wierd Science
>being shot for
> > > The Learning Channel.  Came across your site and find it
>hisghly
> > > entertaining.
> > >
>
>
>William,
>
>         Weird Science....interesting....so was Kelly LeBrock
>when she did the movie by that name.  Two computer geeks
>with women's bras over their heads cooked her up, stark naked,
>in a closet using left over obsolete computers, an old CB radio,
>and a toaster....or some such.
>  ...........realllll interesting...........
>
>         Anyway, are you sure that you
>can use the phrase seeing as the lordly show business
>companies can do no wrong in court these days in their quest
>to gull and overcharge and monopolize us out of our money
>on whatever specious grounds that bribed judges find not
>too outrageous even for them.  Notice that some of the same
>bunch that killed Napster for 'stealing' are now in trouble for
>fraud for overcharging and price fixing in a series of cases
>involving recordings, etc., of the 'Three Tenors'.  Looks like
>the only thing those crooks do not like is competition!
>
>Long LIve Gnutella and Linux!
>
>Standing Bear

Standing Bear:

Actually I am pretty sure the phrase "Weird Science" originates in the late 50s
Universal probably decided it was OK to use.  Besides the big U doesn't sew 
that often.
Unlike "Lucus" who will sew for about anything .



Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 10:43:05 2001
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Subject: Fw: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
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someone from Vortex wanted this list again.
> > > These Ban Space Weapons Protests on the military on Oct 13, 2001. > >
>
> > > "OCTOBER 13 ACTION SITES
> > >
> > >  1) Adelaide, Australia
> > >  2) Aerojet (Sacramento, CA)
> > >  3) Albuquerque, N.M.
> > >  4) Ann Arbor, MI
> > >  5) Arcata, CA
> > >  6) Bad Aibling, Germany  (U.S. Signals Intelligence Base)
> > >  7) Beale AFB (CA)
> > >  8) Berlin, Germany
> > >  9) Boeing (Seattle, WA)
> > >  10) Boeing (Mukilteo, WA)
> > >  11)  Boston, MA (Oct 3 - "Common Security-Don't Arm the Heavens"
> > >  panel) 12)  Boston, MA (Oct 10 - Vigil at Park Tree Subway station)
> > >  13)  Burlington, VT 14)  Cape Cod Air Station, MA (Pave Paws Radar
> > >  Facility) 15)  Chicago, IL 16)  Cleveland State University (Keep
Space
> > >  for Peace Conference) 17)  Damascus, Syria 18)  Dhaka, Bangladesh 19)
> > >  Edwards AFB  (California) 20)  Ellsworth AFB (South Dakota) 21)
> > >  Federal Building (Des Moines, IA) 22)  Fairbanks, Alaska 23)
> > >  Fayetteville, AR 24)  Ft Meade, MD (National Security Agency HQ) 25)
> > >  Fylingdales, England  (BMD Radar Facility) 26)  Huntsville, Alabama
> > >  27)  Kennedy Space Center (Titusville, Florida) 28)  Kodiak, Alaska
> > >  29)  Leicester, England 30)  Lockheed Martin (Eagan, MN) 31)
Lockheed
> > >  Martin (Moorestown, NJ) 32)  Lockheed Martin (Sunnyvale, CA) 33)
> > >  Lockheed Martin (Valley Forge, PA) 34)  Mankato, MN 35)  Menwith
Hill,
> > >  England  (BMD Ground Relay Station) 36)  Mexico City, Mexico 37)
> > >  Nagpur, India 38)  Nevada Test Site (Sunrise Service) 39)  New Haven,
> > >  CT 40)  New York, N.Y. (Wall St. - Oct 12) 41)  Olympia, WA 42)  Pax
> > >  Christi USA 43)  Perth, Australia 44)  Peterson AFB (Colorado
Springs,
> > >  CO) 45)  Philadelphia, PA 46)  Phoenix, AZ 47)  Portland, Maine 48)
> > >  Port Louis, Mauritius 49)  Raytheon (Andover, MA - Oct 12) 50)
> > >  Raytheon (Tucson, AZ) 51)  Saintes, France 52)  Salt Lake City, Utah
> > >  53)  San Francisco, CA 54)  Seoul, Korea (Oct 11-13) 55)  Stennis
> > >  Missile Testing Center (Mississippi) 56)  St Louis, MO 57)  Subase
> > >  Bangor (WA) 58)  Takoma Park, MD (City Hall) 59)  TRW HQ (Cleveland,
> > >  OH - Oct 12 & 14) 60)  USAF Feltwell (Norfolk, England) 61)  USAF
> > >  Lakenheath (Suffolk, England) 62)  U.S. Consulate (Perth, Australia -
> > >  Oct 12) 63)  U.S. Embassy (Accra, Ghana) 64)  U.S. Embassy
(Bucharest,
> > >  Romania) 65)  U.S. Embassy (London, England) 66)  U.S. Embassy
> > >  (Stockholm, Sweden) 67)  U.S. Embassy (Vienna, Austria) 68)  U.S.
> > >  Embassy (Wellington, Aotearoa/New Zealand) 69)  Victoria, Canada 70)
> > >  Vandenberg AFB  (California) 71)  White Sands Missile Test Range,
N.M.
> > >  72)  Winnipeg, Manitoba (Canada)
> > >
> > >  Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space
> > >  PO Box 90083
> > >  Gainesville, FL. 32607
> > >  (352) 337-9274
> > >  http://www.space4peace.org
> > >  globalnet mindspring.com"
> > >
> >

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 14:19:24 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Nick Reiter wrote:
>    I also was not able to pick up on just how P and M arrived at this
> experimental geometry.  Had they stumbled across some of Charles Morton's
> work, and decided to soup it up?

Could be.  It's mentioned in the Podkletnov WIRED magazine interview, and
sounds EXACTLY like Morton's discovery but without attribution.  Heh.
Should Morton have kept it secret, so Podkletnov couldn't steal it and
become famous?     ;)

  Breaking the Law of Gravity, by Charles Platt 3/98
  http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/6.03/antigravity_pr.html

 "But wait; there's more. He has news that hasn't been reported elsewhere. 
 Despite the hardships in Moscow, during the past year he says he
 conducted research at an unnamed "chemical scientific research center"
 where he built a device that reflects gravity. Supposedly it's based
 around a Van de Graaff generator - a high-voltage machine dating back to
 the earliest days of electrical research. "Normally there are two
 spheres," he explains, "and a spark jumps between them. Now imagine the
 spheres are flat surfaces, superconductors, one of them a coil or
 O-ring. Under specific conditions, applying resonating fields and
 composite superconducting coatings, we can organize the energy discharge
 in such a way that it goes through the center of the electrode,
 accompanied by gravitation phenomena - reflecting gravitational waves
 that spread through the walls and hit objects on the floors below,
 knocking them over."


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 14:32:33 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Podkletnov/Morton effect?
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On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Rick Monteverde wrote:

> Also, wouldn't a sharp burst of x-rays light fluorescent bulbs and 
> ionize things, which is what he describes?

Yeah!  Buy some "glow in the dark" Zinc Sulfide paint and coat a piece of
cardboard.  If you flash a camera flash at this in the dark while putting
your hand over the cardboard, a sharp shadow will be recorded.  If the
"camera flash" was in the x-ray spectrum, the same thing should occur (use
some lead fishing weights or lead foil burglar alarm tape from radio shack
to cast shadows.) 

> If so, I can see how it could send "bits of paper flying".

Another possibility:  VandeGraaff machines are famous for filling the room
with charged air, and thus charging the surfaces of nearby objects.  If
all the space near the VDG sphere is full of charged air, and nearby
objects are charged up, and next the strong e-field is suddenly removed in
a few nanoseconds, you'd end up with strange kinds of sound waves as the
forces on the air and objects suddenly changed.  It's like a plasma
loudspeaker.  The air near the VDG would send out a sound pulse. Nearby
objects would send out a sound pulse back towards the VDG.  You'd also end
up with strange EM pulses caused by the sound waves vibrating the charged
air once the sound started propagating.  The combined sound and RF pulse
might seem like a new kind of wave, rather than just the sum of sound and
EM and vibrating charges. 



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 15:42:53 2001
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On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, William Beaty wrote:

> Another possibility:  VandeGraaff machines are famous for filling the room
> with charged air, and thus charging the surfaces of nearby objects.  If

Doh!  I finally looked at the figures in that paper.  His device is
totally enclosed, so apparently only the mystery-wave and not the e-field
nor the ions can escape.  See attached GIF, or see JPEGs at: 

  http://ttt.lanl.gov/ps/physics/0108005?

Except for the HTSC electrode and the helium atmosphere, this is Morton's
device.  Note: repair my vandegraaff, try Morton's setup, also try
Morton's setup under pure argon.


So, we've got mysterious longitudinal forces coming from lightning bolts
which strike superconductors.  Maybe Dr. Graneau's longitudinal forces
within conductors can propagate in space?!! 

Or less seriously, maybe the Earth collects a nimbus of exotic matter, and
this device is just a "Wham-O dark matter vortex gun" which can knock over
a cardboard gorilla from five paces away: 

  Wham-O Air Blaster
  http://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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--1915785203-409868868-997396920=:18208--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 15:46:20 2001
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:42:55 +0300
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Subject: A basic Newtonian question
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In the context of Newtonian gravity, not GR, if two comparable objects, say earth and moon pull each other, it is logical to say this interaction is the consequence of gravitational fields of each objects. But if the gravitational field of one objet is ne
gligible compared to other's, say a mass 1 Kg on the surface of Earth, it become challenging to say it again, weight of the 1 kg mass is consequence of its tiny gravitational field. This become even more challenging when a photon is diverged by a gravitat
ional field of a star. 

Is this logic flawed or not?

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 21:17:12 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:15:27 EDT
Subject: Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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Negative system entropy is an indicator of tapping The ZPE field.  Besides 
being unique - it works as well. 
References sited: Tesla, Farnsworth (fusion), Blewett (fusion), Alexeff and 
Correa (plasma), Shoulders & Puthoff (EV) (including Scott Little) Plus 
others.

A link to the USPTO and my Patent - US  6,271,614 is at:
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug  9 23:27:23 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: Colin Quinney <crquin home.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Colin Quinney wrote:

> Hi Rick,
> 
> Confusing isn't it? But Charles Yost of the Electric Spacecraft publications
> will be sending me the pertinent papers. 

I have most ESJ issues right here.  Which are you interested in?  The one
from 1991 describes the version with the vandegraaff and glass tube, and
also a metal disk with a long rod projecting from its center (sparks from
a HV transformer jumping between them.)  Issue #29 (aug 1999) describes
several tests involving resonators and loading coils attached to the
rod/disk device, as well as changes to the position of the wire connected
to the rod.



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 02:53:43 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese!        (physics/0108005)
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At 5:27 PM 8/8/1, Robert Stirniman wrote:
>Horace wrote:
>
>> It is an interesting and well known effect that when a potential is applied
>> across a short gap between two superconductors that electrons will tunnel
>> back and forth across the gap in enormous but synchronized quantities,
>> thereby creating radio wave emission that dissipates energy from the gap as
>> if it were a resistor, yet without creating heat.
>
>Hi Horace. Way interesting.
>Do you have any references handy about this?
>Thanks.
>Robert Stirniman


Yes.  Any reference to the AC Josephson effect will help.  Specifically, I
have *Superconductors, Conquering Technologies New Frontier*, Randy Simon
and Andrew Smith, Plenum Press, 1988, p53, ff.

There are some amazing numbers involved in the AC Josephson effect.  A
millionth of a volt produces an oscillation across a Josphson Junction at
500 MHz. That is over a distance of say 10^-9 cm, or a gradient of 10^-6 V
/ 10^-9 m = 10^3 V/m.  TO speculate, given that Podkletnov's gradient is on
the order of 10^6 V/m, the frequency might be 500 MHz x 10^3, or 5x10^11
Hz, or a wavelength of 0.06 cm.

However, I suspect the power supply doesn't ever actually apply the full 2
MV to the SC surface, but rather that the quickly established low
resistance plasma prevents much of a voltage drop from forming across the
vacuum gap.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 03:26:35 2001
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese!        (physics/0108005)
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At 5:27 PM 8/8/1, Robert Stirniman wrote:

>Hi Horace. Way interesting.



Yes indeed, and fertile ground for speculation, especially in view of Paul
Hill's work on UFO's.

If the appx. 10^6 V/m gradient Podkletnov used is right, then there is no
need to operate at in the megavolt range at all.  A smaller gap, say 1 cm
operating a 10^4 V should work as well.  Further, since the full 2 MV may
never have actually been applied to the gap in Podkletnov's experiment,
much less voltage may suffice.  It seems to me the important thing is to
have the anode (the target electrode) transparent to the longitudinal
waves.  Perhaps a grid of some sort would do a good job of this.  Also, the
gas most provide electron tunneling destination sites, and apparently argon
is good for this if my speculation is anywhere near right. Therefore the
gas pressure must be adjusted to the gradient so as to keep the avg.
molecular spacing of the gas at approximately the typical tunneling
distance.  Setting the tunneling distance (by adjusting gas pressure)
approximately equal to the AC Josephson wavelength (a function of the
gradient) might be useful as well.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 05:46:05 2001
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William Beaty wrote:


> Or less seriously, maybe the Earth collects a nimbus of exotic matter, and
> this device is just a "Wham-O dark matter vortex gun" which can knock over
> a cardboard gorilla from five paces away:
> 
>   Wham-O Air Blaster
>   http://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

Sniff!  Thanks for the memory.  This was my favorite toy of all
until the handle broke off.  I still fired it by pushing the
diaphram in with a stick.  Here's a good one for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1625468266

Terry

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From: Jim Uban <uban world.std.com>
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>On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:51:36, David Rosignoli wrote:
>Based on his experiments, Charles Yost seems to think (from what I
>gather from his articles - I haven't spoken to him) that the effect - if
>present - is due to an electrostatic longitudinal wave of some sort.
>That would not account for a force through multiple grounded metal
>shields, as in the case of the P&B article.

	I was studying one of Jefimenko's books the 
other day ("Causality, Gravitation and ???" [I forget
the exact title]), where he derives what he feels are 
the correct causal relationships between sources and 
field effects.  I noticed that the derived equations 
seem to show that if one sets up a situation where
changing charge distributions predominate rather than
changing currents, that a purely electric field 
longitudinal wave can be produced, which falls
off as only 1/r.  The magnitude of the E-field
is proportional to the time derivative of the
charge distribution configuration, i.e., how 
fast the configuration changes.

		Jim

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 10:33:21 2001
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Subject: bill "Uri" beaty scares himself
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More non-skeptical phenomena below,   delete if you wish

--------------------------------------------

This just happened a few hours ago, and I thought that others here might
also find it as scary/hilarious as I did.

I stumbled across a semi-professional "psychic test" website, and because
it's run by Dr. Dean Radin, I thought I'd have a go.  The first test was
"card guessing."  I think I tried something similar long ago, with results
at chance levels (only occasionally guessing right.)  This time I tried
imagining which grey square would have the photo, then clicking on it
immediately.  First trial, guessed right (one chance out of five.)  Next
one, guessed right.  NEXT one, guessed right.  This feels very odd!  Next
one, I was going to click a card, then got a strong "feeling" that another
one was right, so I clicked this other one... and was wrong, but my FIRST
choice was right!    Next trial, guessed right, aaaag!  Next trial,
guessed totally wrong (finally!)  After 20 trials (with a several more
hits and a few total errors.) the results given were 9:1 against.  Stats
fluctuation, eh?  Scary though. 

Next we try the "remote viewing" test, wherein you try to describe a photo
first, then it's presented later.  OK, looking at the grey square, I
immediately start getting strong "storytelling" things happening in my
head.  A staring eye.  A blue sky.  The eye is surrounded by brown-black
feathers, that of a predator bird.  It's a single dark-feathered bird
standing on something white, like a brown/black hawk on a stump of a dead
dried white tree in the desert against a blazing blue sky.  It's not
moving much, but the wings are open and flapping for some reason, all the
individual dark feathers splayed out and distinct.  OK, now we look at the
photo.  Ek.  It's a line of penguins standing on the edge of a tall white
iceberg with water below, many flapping penguine wings, with bright blue
water and white ice (no sky visible though.)  Hmmmm. 

Next one... my impressions are strong and totally different.  Dark
background.  Dark and stuffy, like hot summertime camping in pitch black
night time woods with no breeze.  White puffy thing in the center. 
Marshmallow.  Round and soft/organic, with a sharp-edged disk below. 
Cooking marshmallows over a campfire? Vaguely, but this is a closeup on
the marshmallow, no fire.  Hot sweaty darkness with a marshmallow and a
sharp-edged disk below it, the marshmallow and the disk on a common axis.
I start to go to the next screen, but then stop and add the word "bulge"
to the description. OK, bring up the photo.  Arrrrrg!  It's a closeup of a
sweat-covered weightlifter's arm with a huge bulging white bicep, holding
a small black barbell (one disk-shaped weight visible), against a black
background! 

This is enough massive statistical fluctuation for one day, and I flee.


OK, I'm ready for my nightclub act, Mr. Carson!   :)


PS

the test was at the (non-university, private) Cog. Sci. Laboratories site,
http://csl.lfr.org/bi/gotpsi.htm    Go see if you can scare yourself too!


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 10:44:04 2001
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
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At 12:03 PM 8/10/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:51:36, David Rosignoli wrote:
> >Based on his experiments, Charles Yost seems to think (from what I
> >gather from his articles - I haven't spoken to him) that the effect - if
> >present - is due to an electrostatic longitudinal wave of some sort.
> >That would not account for a force through multiple grounded metal
> >shields, as in the case of the P&B article.
>
>         I was studying one of Jefimenko's books the
>other day ("Causality, Gravitation and ???" [I forget
>the exact title]), where he derives what he feels are
>the correct causal relationships between sources and
>field effects.  I noticed that the derived equations
>seem to show that if one sets up a situation where
>changing charge distributions predominate rather than
>changing currents, that a purely electric field
>longitudinal wave can be produced, which falls
>off as only 1/r.  The magnitude of the E-field
>is proportional to the time derivative of the
>charge distribution configuration, i.e., how
>fast the configuration changes.
>
>                 Jim

Jim:  You are sure that is 1/r ?  Seems that 1/r^2 is proper for three 
dimensional relationships  Wether the radiating filed is electrical , 
magnetic, or spray paint does not matter.


Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 10:51:06 2001
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Subject: Re: Podkletnov/Morton effect?
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On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Terry Blanton wrote:
> Sniff!  Thanks for the memory.  This was my favorite toy of all
> until the handle broke off.  I still fired it by pushing the
> diaphram in with a stick.  Here's a good one for sale:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1625468266

LOL!  The main reason I mentioned it was that I just bought one off eBay a
few days ago for $56 (hasn't arrived yet.)  If anyone wants to bid on
these, know that the online antique toy stores sell BROKEN ones for $90,
while good ones in the original package are more like $130.

Maybe I can talk the local Playvisions Toys into producing this thing. 
(They're going to do DISGUSTOSCOPE!)  Wham-O won't, even though they've
ressurected many retro 1960 toys.  Too afraid of ear-puncture lawsuits.



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 11:51:53 2001
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	Recently University work reported Bose Einstein condenstates were
created by light and magnetic fields.  further, if the system became un
balanced the condensate exploded and the investigators called it a
	Bosevona.

	So I ask you.... if you let the fields get out of hand do you .... 

	Blame it on the Bosenova ... the dance of love?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 12:26:58 2001
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I love it.
Thank You
Hank

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:

> 
> 	Recently University work reported Bose Einstein condenstates were
> created by light and magnetic fields.  further, if the system became un
> balanced the condensate exploded and the investigators called it a
> 	Bosevona.
> 
> 	So I ask you.... if you let the fields get out of hand do you .... 
> 
> 	Blame it on the Bosenova ... the dance of love?
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 14:38:04 2001
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:47:20 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Gravity Generator from E.Podkletnov and G. Modanese!        (physics/0108005)
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Yet another resonance to consider when designing Podkletnov/Morton style
experiments:


>PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
>The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
>Number 551  August 8, 2001   by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and
>James Riordon
[snip]
>HIGH TEMPERATURE SUPERCONDUCTORS MIGHT BE
>VIBRATIONAL after all, at least in part.  Low temperature (4 K)
>superconductors operate according to the Bardeen-Cooper-
>Schrieffer (BCS) viewpoint.  Electrons pair up and enter into a
>single unified quantum state through the agency of vibrations of
>the underlying lattice of atoms, an occurrence which can also be
>described in terms of the exchange of phonons.  This BCS
>mechanism is inherently fragile and not expected to survive in the
>warmer, 100-K, regime where high temperature superconductors
>operate.  Therefore new tests conducted at SLAC's Stanford
>Synchrotron Radiation Laboratory (SSRL) and LBL's Advanced
>Light Source (ALS) came as a surprise.  Researchers shot carefully
>selected photons into various cuprate superconductor samples and
>observed a kink in the energy spectrum of the ejected electrons, a
>kink which they associate with an underlying electron-phonon
>resonance, suggesting some kind of BCS behavior at work.
>(Lanzara et al., Nature, 2 August 2001.)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:06:29 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Jim Uban's message of Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:03:33 -0400:
[snip]
>field effects.  I noticed that the derived equations 
>seem to show that if one sets up a situation where
>changing charge distributions predominate rather than
>changing currents, that a purely electric field 
>longitudinal wave can be produced, which falls
>off as only 1/r.  The magnitude of the E-field
>is proportional to the time derivative of the
>charge distribution configuration, i.e., how 
>fast the configuration changes.
[snip]
Take a look at http://www.mhhe.com/cit/uit3e/pages/chap8/tech8.html .
The very low power requirement, and the fact that pulses (i.e. charge
redistributions) are used, imply that it may be related. Also the fact
that the inventor implies that it doesn't interfere with normal radio.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

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>More non-skeptical phenomena below,   delete if you wish
>
>--------------------------------------------
>
>This just happened a few hours ago, and I thought that others here might
>also find it as scary/hilarious as I did.
>
>I stumbled across a semi-professional "psychic test" website, and because
>it's run by Dr. Dean Radin, I thought I'd have a go.  The first test was
>"card guessing."  I think I tried something similar long ago, with results
>at chance levels (only occasionally guessing right.)  This time I tried
>imagining which grey square would have the photo, then clicking on it
>immediately.  First trial, guessed right (one chance out of five.)  Next
>one, guessed right.  NEXT one, guessed right.  This feels very odd!  Next
>one, I was going to click a card, then got a strong "feeling" that another
>one was right, so I clicked this other one... and was wrong, but my FIRST
>choice was right!    Next trial, guessed right, aaaag!  Next trial,
>guessed totally wrong (finally!)  After 20 trials (with a several more
>hits and a few total errors.) the results given were 9:1 against.  Stats
>fluctuation, eh?  Scary though.

***{Bill, if you think you can perform at significantly better than chance
when picking cards, to to Vegas. If you really could do it, you would come
back a millionaire. However, before you get too excited at the prospect, I
suggest that you ask yourself why none of the famous "psychics" have gone
there and done that. :-) --MJ}***

[snip]

>((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
>William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
>billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
>EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
>Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

________________
Quote of the month:

"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

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Wow, all things re-invent themselves!

For a number of years I subscribed to Harry Goldman's classic TCBA News.  I
remember that back in the late 80's there was a wee article about Sir Oliver
Lodge's "impact transmitter" - essentially a Tesla coil that was damped to
produce a train of single "impacts" on the aether.  Same principle, almost a
century ago;  though I have no knocks against Fullerton - he seems like our
kinda people.  Boy mad scientist!

NR

----- Original Message -----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.

> Take a look at http://www.mhhe.com/cit/uit3e/pages/chap8/tech8.html .
> The very low power requirement, and the fact that pulses (i.e. charge
> redistributions) are used, imply that it may be related. Also the fact
> that the inventor implies that it doesn't interfere with normal radio.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk



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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
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	Kinky.

On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Horace Heffner wrote:

> Yet another resonance to consider when designing Podkletnov/Morton style
> experiments:
> 
> 
> >PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
> >The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
> >Number 551  August 8, 2001   by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and
> >James Riordon
> [snip]
> >HIGH TEMPERATURE SUPERCONDUCTORS MIGHT BE
> >VIBRATIONAL after all, at least in part.  Low temperature (4 K)
> >superconductors operate according to the Bardeen-Cooper-
> >Schrieffer (BCS) viewpoint.  Electrons pair up and enter into a
> >single unified quantum state through the agency of vibrations of
> >the underlying lattice of atoms, an occurrence which can also be
> >described in terms of the exchange of phonons.  This BCS
> >mechanism is inherently fragile and not expected to survive in the
> >warmer, 100-K, regime where high temperature superconductors
> >operate.  Therefore new tests conducted at SLAC's Stanford
> >Synchrotron Radiation Laboratory (SSRL) and LBL's Advanced
> >Light Source (ALS) came as a surprise.  Researchers shot carefully
> >selected photons into various cuprate superconductor samples and
> >observed a kink in the energy spectrum of the ejected electrons, a
> >kink which they associate with an underlying electron-phonon
> >resonance, suggesting some kind of BCS behavior at work.
> >(Lanzara et al., Nature, 2 August 2001.)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner          
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 19:34:46 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: bill "Uri" beaty scares himself
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On Fri, 10 Aug 2001, Mitchell Jones wrote:
> ***{Bill, if you think you can perform at significantly better than chance
> when picking cards, to to Vegas. If you really could do it, you would come
> back a millionaire. However, before you get too excited at the prospect, I
> suggest that you ask yourself why none of the famous "psychics" have gone
> there and done that. :-) --MJ}***

Use my amazing super powers for selfish gain?  No, I'm going to don
brightly colored leotards and embark on a life as a crimefighter!  Give me
photos of your murder scene, and before even looking at them, I can tell
you if penguins are present in them, or possibly marshmallows. 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 19:38:26 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Aug 10, 2001
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:58:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 10 Jul 01   Washington, DC

1. CAFE: LOW WEIGHT CARS INCREASE RISK -- FOR THE STEEL INDUSTRY. 
The Coalition for Vehicle Choice, a non-profit organization "to
preserve the freedom of Americans to choose motor vehicles that
meet their needs and their freedom to travel," leads the lobbying
effort against new CAFE standards.  Members include the American
Iron and Steel Institute, the major tire companies, and the big-
three auto makers.  The big-is-safe arguments are "mostly hogwash
and nonsense," a former director of the National Highway
Transportation Safety Administration told What's New.  The fact
is that after the 1978 CAFE standards went into effect, auto
safety improved because of new safety standards, and "there is
still room for increased auto safety and better fuel economy.  It
is a matter of design."  Alas, he also described the WN argument
(WN 3 Aug 01) as "too simplistic."  I think I can live with that.

2. NMD: WHAT SORT OF SUCCESS RATE SHOULD WE EXPECT?  Describing
President Bush's missile defense plan as "the most expensive
possible response to the least likely threat we face," the
dasching Senate Majority Leader pointed out yesterday that "we
knew who was launching, where it was being launched from, when it
was being launched, and the flight path it would take.  For good
measure, there was a homing beacon on the target."  But Senator
Daschle (D-SD) was also quick to note that he's no enemy of the
program in general, indeed if "our adversaries would be kind
enough to meet all of these conditions, and if we are willing to
accept a 50% success rate," then he too would support deployment. 
       
3. NASA: THIS ONE'S FOR THE KIDS.  NASA, in its latest attempt to
substitute image for science, is now turning to the desolate
plains of pop culture.  Boy bands and teeny boppers in tow, NASA
is on a mission to show young people that "Mars Rocks!" According
to Thursday's issue of the Wall Street Journal, NASA commissioned
the boy band Natural to play at the launch of the Space Shuttle
Endeavor and to include a song about space travel on their next
CD.  The band's manager commented that "NASA is hip and getting
hipper!"  Among those scientists shaking their heads at this
recent turn of events is a former shuttle engineer who comments
that "NASA getting hipper is like your parents using teenage
slang it's kind of embarrassing and awkward."  While the kids may
be sliding into their dancing shoes, serious NASA science is
getting the boot.  Having already scrapped whatever science was
supposed to be on the ISS (WN 3 Aug 01), venerable projects such
as the Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite (UARS), which was
about to celebrate its 10th anniversary, and newer projects such
as Triana, which is built and just waiting for a launch, have
been abruptly cancelled.  Often ridiculed as a Gore pet, Triana
was to make the first direct measure of Earth reflectivity.

(Stephanie Young contributed to this week's What's New.)

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 20:07:10 2001
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Subject: crude test of Morton effect
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Got the VDG back running again, and spent a couple of hours playing with
it.  This DOES do something interesting.  I'm letting sparks jump to a 24" 
square of cardboard covered with aluminum foil, glued down with rubber
cement. 

I messed about with thin glass tubes, and found that it's very difficult
to make a spark proceed along the interior.  Surface leakage probably
changes the field patterns inside.  The arcs are dim and jagged, and go
over the outer surface, or they are triggered at the edge of the glass
tube, then change path to propagate through the air.

Finally I just stuck some styrofoam rods between the flat plate and the
VDG sphere, with about 2.5" distance between sphere and foil.  The sparks
aren't attracted to the styrofoam, and this gives fat, bright, perfectly
straight sparks with interesting internal structure.  Unfortunately, every
spark originates at a different spot, so if these sparks are creating a
narrow "beam" of some sort, its path is jumping around over a 3" region.
The rep rate on these sparks is a little faster than 1 hz.

A neon bulb (an old front-view Nixie bulb) flashes dimly orange during a
spark when held at any position within 12" of the VDG sphere.  But when
held BEHIND the foil plate, at the approximate location of the sparks, it
flashes distinctly brighter.  

The RF impulse seems to be penetrating the foil, and MIGHT be stronger
near the spark than elsewhere.

The tube only flashes for about 1 in 3 sparks.  Either the spark energy is
varying, or the location of the spark on the other side of the foil is
important.  I wish I had a big, flat, neon-filled plasma panel that I
could place against the back of the foil. 

My hand can't feel any force pulses when held near the cardboard opposite
the spot where the sparks are striking the foil.  I'll have to try
dangling some small objects on threads.

I think I'll try attaching a large number of NE2 bulbs to an acrylic
panel, and see if I can detect any small hot-spots or beam-like lines.

No obvious response by zinc sulfide, but I'll have to wait for dark to
make certain.

I tried stablizing the location of the sparks by using various ball
bearings attached to the VDG sphere, but this converts the sparks to "weak
mode", where they are very thin, dim purple, jagged, and have multiple
branches like tree roots.  Even a 1.25" diameter ball bearing did this.
Perhaps I can paint part of the metal sphere with insulator, while leaving
a tiny clear spot, and that will stop the sparks from wandering.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 10 20:29:52 2001
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Sender: hoyt eskimo.com
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From: "Hoyt Stearns Jr." <hoyt-stearns home.com>
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Mitchell Jones wrote:
>
> 
> ***{Bill, if you think you can perform at significantly better than chance
> when picking cards, to to Vegas. If you really could do it, you would come
> back a millionaire. However, before you get too excited at the prospect, I
> suggest that you ask yourself why none of the famous "psychics" have gone
> there and done that. :-) --MJ}***
> 
>

You can, but your subconscious has to be comfortable
with winning.

I was at, and a presenter at, the last remote viewing
conference June 15
( http://www.rvconference.org ), and have met there
and  known quite a few people who
are successful at winning.  Often, when asked "If
you're so good, why aren't
you rich?" and many say "I am"!  

I've been to a Las Vegas craps PK workshop given by Joe
Gallenberger, a Monroe
Institute trainer, and the group of 16 on average takes
the casino for $80K to $100K.
The dealers say they've never seen anything like that
before--referring to
runs of 40 to 75 minutes for a craps player not rolling
a 7.

Interestingly, the casino (Stardust) likes us :-).  The
~$2000 tip the dealers get helps,
I'm sure, but also the crowds that surround the table
help them recoup.  They're
often nice enough to give free room and meals to the
group.

See

http://www.monroeinstitute.org/programs/mcsquared.html


Best Regards,
Hoyt Stearns
Phoenix
http://www.turbotip.webhop.net

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 04:53:52 2001
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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 07:53:15 -0400
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From: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
Subject: Re: crude test of Morton effect
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>Got the VDG back running again, and spent a couple of hours playing with
>it.  This DOES do something interesting.  I'm letting sparks jump to a 24"
>square of cardboard covered with aluminum foil, glued down with rubber
>cement.

According to the text, Morton's target was grounded, and had a hole in it.
The diagram doesn't show the grounding, but clearly shows the spark going thru
the hole and curling backwards to the metal plate.  This suggests that the
hole diameter is >= the inside diameter of the tube, perhaps even as large
as the outside diameter, so that the edge of the tube would be flush with
the plate...

>I messed about with thin glass tubes, and found that it's very difficult
>to make a spark proceed along the interior.  Surface leakage probably

what about using a funnel?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 06:57:06 2001
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All those demonstrations.  Our competitors in this world that 
really know the score know also Von Clausewitz's rule:
"He who would have peace must prepare for war!".  It is the
strong that survive in this world.  Look out at the nearest 
wild area and see for yourself.  Weakness and excuses
for weakness only result in domination by others.  Those
others will not allow the same situation to overtake them,
hence tragedies like Tian-An-Men in China where foolish
people had the ludicrous notion that the Chinese government
would respond or understand anything other than force.  It is
an unhappy fact of life that we either live with and prepare
for as nation states or world nation groups or suffer the 
consequences for ignoring.  History has proven that
countries that become weak for any reason create power
vacuums that never remain so.  Peoples unable or unwilling
to manage their own affairs or maintain political or economic
power are displaced or annihilated, never to again be a
factor on the world stage.  Their torch forever extinguished
or passed to others of completely different, even alien
philosophies.
	Think on this when you seek to demonstrate against
space weapons.  If successful, you will only stop your friends
from building them.  Like the SST.  It was built!  Only we 
foolish Americans do not have it.  Even the Russian TU-144
can be flown again if the Russians seek to fix this fine plane.
Notice that of all your events, not one is in the People's 
Republic of China, or the People's Republic of North Korea.
Not one is in India or Pakistan or Iran or Iraq.  Not even in
the Ukraine or in Russia where you might now have a chance
not to be shot on sight.  You know why you cannot ever hope
to have a demonstration there and hope to live.  Think on
that while you march in your Chinese shoes while listening
to pirate Chinese CDs in your Chinese headphone stereo.
Dwell on that while wearing your Chinese shirts made with
the blood and sweat of Chinese slave laborers that took your
jobs so that you now have the time in poverty to march
in support to the political panderers and Chinese agents
who are in our government now and are the architects of this
decronstruction of our way of life.
	Many years ago, J Edgar Hoover, the crossdressing
blackmailer who ran the Federal Bureau  of Investigation
for 30 years by using fear as a management tool, had
ghostwritten under his name a book titled:  "Masters of Deceit".
In it demonstrations and movements like this one were peopled
by 'usefull fools' who while not necessarily being authentic
enemy agents, were often very instrumental in effecting
change conducive to the destruction of our society and our
country.  Look what they did for the Viet-Namese.  Look at the
course of our society since.  No one in this country can really
claim to be as well off now as he was back in the seventies
before the bill for our loss of the war started to be repaid in
blood and jobs and high energy prices.

Standing Bear
Veteran of Viet-Nam

















On Thursday 09 August 2001 09:51, bruce meland wrote:

> someone from Vortex wanted this list again.
> > > > These Ban Space Weapons Protests on the military on Oct 
13, 2001. > >
> >
> > > > "OCTOBER 13 ACTION SITES
> > > >
> > > >  1) Adelaide, Australia
> > > >  2) Aerojet (Sacramento, CA)
> > > >  3) Albuquerque, N.M.
> > > >  4) Ann Arbor, MI
> > > >  5) Arcata, CA
> > > >  6) Bad Aibling, Germany  (U.S. Signals Intelligence 
Base)
> > > >  7) Beale AFB (CA)
> > > >  8) Berlin, Germany
> > > >  9) Boeing (Seattle, WA)
> > > >  10) Boeing (Mukilteo, WA)
> > > >  11)  Boston, MA (Oct 3 - "Common Security-Don't Arm the 
Heavens"
> > > >  panel) 12)  Boston, MA (Oct 10 - Vigil at Park Tree 
Subway station)
> > > >  13)  Burlington, VT 14)  Cape Cod Air Station, MA (Pave 
Paws Radar
> > > >  Facility) 15)  Chicago, IL 16)  Cleveland State 
University (Keep
> Space
> > > >  for Peace Conference) 17)  Damascus, Syria 18)  Dhaka, 
Bangladesh 19)
> > > >  Edwards AFB  (California) 20)  Ellsworth AFB (South 
Dakota) 21)
> > > >  Federal Building (Des Moines, IA) 22)  Fairbanks, 
Alaska 23)
> > > >  Fayetteville, AR 24)  Ft Meade, MD (National Security 
Agency HQ) 25)
> > > >  Fylingdales, England  (BMD Radar Facility) 26)  
Huntsville, Alabama
> > > >  27)  Kennedy Space Center (Titusville, Florida) 28)  
Kodiak, Alaska
> > > >  29)  Leicester, England 30)  Lockheed Martin (Eagan, 
MN) 31)
> Lockheed
> > > >  Martin (Moorestown, NJ) 32)  Lockheed Martin 
(Sunnyvale, CA) 33)
> > > >  Lockheed Martin (Valley Forge, PA) 34)  Mankato, MN 35) 
 Menwith
> Hill,
> > > >  England  (BMD Ground Relay Station) 36)  Mexico City, 
Mexico 37)
> > > >  Nagpur, India 38)  Nevada Test Site (Sunrise Service) 
39)  New Haven,
> > > >  CT 40)  New York, N.Y. (Wall St. - Oct 12) 41)  
Olympia, WA 42)  Pax
> > > >  Christi USA 43)  Perth, Australia 44)  Peterson AFB 
(Colorado
> Springs,
> > > >  CO) 45)  Philadelphia, PA 46)  Phoenix, AZ 47)  
Portland, Maine 48)
> > > >  Port Louis, Mauritius 49)  Raytheon (Andover, MA - Oct 
12) 50)
> > > >  Raytheon (Tucson, AZ) 51)  Saintes, France 52)  Salt 
Lake City, Utah
> > > >  53)  San Francisco, CA 54)  Seoul, Korea (Oct 11-13) 
55)  Stennis
> > > >  Missile Testing Center (Mississippi) 56)  St Louis, MO 
57)  Subase
> > > >  Bangor (WA) 58)  Takoma Park, MD (City Hall) 59)  TRW 
HQ (Cleveland,
> > > >  OH - Oct 12 & 14) 60)  USAF Feltwell (Norfolk, England) 
61)  USAF
> > > >  Lakenheath (Suffolk, England) 62)  U.S. Consulate 
(Perth, Australia -
> > > >  Oct 12) 63)  U.S. Embassy (Accra, Ghana) 64)  U.S. 
Embassy
> (Bucharest,
> > > >  Romania) 65)  U.S. Embassy (London, England) 66)  U.S. 
Embassy
> > > >  (Stockholm, Sweden) 67)  U.S. Embassy (Vienna, Austria) 
68)  U.S.
> > > >  Embassy (Wellington, Aotearoa/New Zealand) 69)  
Victoria, Canada 70)
> > > >  Vandenberg AFB  (California) 71)  White Sands Missile 
Test Range,
> N.M.
> > > >  72)  Winnipeg, Manitoba (Canada)
> > > >
> > > >  Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space
> > > >  PO Box 90083
> > > >  Gainesville, FL. 32607
> > > >  (352) 337-9274
> > > >  http://www.space4peace.org
> > > >  globalnet mindspring.com"
> > > >
> > >

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 08:09:50 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Jones <mjones jump.net>
Subject: Re: bill "Uri" beaty scares himself
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>Mitchell Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>> ***{Bill, if you think you can perform at significantly better than chance
>> when picking cards, to to Vegas. If you really could do it, you would come
>> back a millionaire. However, before you get too excited at the prospect, I
>> suggest that you ask yourself why none of the famous "psychics" have gone
>> there and done that. :-) --MJ}***
>>
>>
>
>You can, but your subconscious has to be comfortable
>with winning.
>
>I was at, and a presenter at, the last remote viewing
>conference June 15
>( http://www.rvconference.org ), and have met there
>and  known quite a few people who
>are successful at winning.  Often, when asked "If
>you're so good, why aren't
>you rich?" and many say "I am"!

***{It is easy to get rich by scamming the credulous. Getting rich by
beating the house in Vegas, however, is quite another matter. --MJ}***

>I've been to a Las Vegas craps PK workshop given by Joe
>Gallenberger, a Monroe
>Institute trainer, and the group of 16 on average takes
>the casino for $80K to $100K.

***{Or so they say. If you believe them, there is a bridge in Brooklyn I
can get for you cheap. :-) --MJ}***

>The dealers say they've never seen anything like that
>before--referring to
>runs of 40 to 75 minutes for a craps player not rolling
>a 7.
>
>Interestingly, the casino (Stardust) likes us :-).

***{They like you because they can take your money. The casinos stay in
business because of suckers who think they can buck the laws of
probability, and win. The more people who believe that, the more money they
rake in.

People who can take the casinos' money, on the other hand, get the bum's
rush. Ed Thorpe, for example, used probability theory to devise a blackjack
system that actually worked, and in the process got himself banned from
casino after casino. He tried wearing sunglasses and makeup, bizarre wigs,
growing a beard, etc., but nothing succeeded for long: the casinos would
quickly catch on and have their bouncers escort him to the door. Finally,
when he became so notorious that he no longer could make money using the
system, he published a book (*Beat the Dealer*), and first hundreds, then
thousands, of "counters" (people who followed his system) descended on
casinos around the world. Result: they changed the rules of blackjack, so
that his system no longer worked.

Bottom line: a real psychic would be able to bust any casino in a few
hours, and, when they saw that happening, they would do unto him just as
they did unto Ed Thorpe. Since they don't, logic says your "psychics" are
not real.

--Mitchell Jones}***

The
>~$2000 tip the dealers get helps,
>I'm sure, but also the crowds that surround the table
>help them recoup.  They're
>often nice enough to give free room and meals to the
>group.

***{Yup: when they think they can make lots of money off of you, they will
send a limo to meet you at the airport. And that is especially the case if
they think you will generate a lot of publicity and attract crowds of
additional suckers. For example, they love movie stars (e.g., Omar Sharif)
and billionaires (e.g., Kerry Packer). It is rumored, in fact, that
sometimes they deliberately let such people win, because of the publicity
that will result, and the mobs of "fresh meat" that will come streaming in
through their doors. If you are just an ordinary Joe who has deluded
himself into thinking he can beat the odds, however, all that you can
expect is that they will systematically drain the cash out of your wallet.
--MJ}***

>See
>
>http://www.monroeinstitute.org/programs/mcsquared.html
>
>
>Best Regards,
>Hoyt Stearns
>Phoenix
>http://www.turbotip.webhop.net

________________
Quote of the month:

"[The recent stock market bubble was] the biggest financial insanity ever
in any nation in history [and will lead to] a stock market crash greater
than the Great Crash of 1929." --Sir John Templeton

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 08:58:51 2001
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Mitchell Jones wrote:
> 
> >Mitchell Jones wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> ***{Bill, if you think you can perform at significantly better than chance
> >> when picking cards, to to Vegas. If you really could do it, you would come
> >> back a millionaire. However, before you get too excited at the prospect, I
> >> suggest that you ask yourself why none of the famous "psychics" have gone
> >> there and done that. :-) --MJ}***
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You can, but your subconscious has to be comfortable
> >with winning.
> >
> 
> Bottom line: a real psychic would be able to bust any casino in a few
> hours, and, when they saw that happening, they would do unto him just as
> they did unto Ed Thorpe. Since they don't, logic says your "psychics" are
> not real.
>

Greetings,

Yes they can, but physicist Russell Targ, 

  
http://www.rvconference.org/abstracts/RussellTarg-abstract.html
,

 one of the original group of 
Stanford Research Institute  technical people studying
remote viewing,
 and a speaker at the last two RV
conferences, found that once a psychic gets good enough
to win, they are no
longer interested in doing so.  Since they know they
can get money any time they
want it, they feel no particular desire to accumulate
it, secondly there's a shift in
consciousness away from that once they understand the
real nature of reality,
and there are other reasons too.  The SRI group did do
a precognitive remote viewing
experiment on silver futures, and hit 7 times in a row,
making ~$50K. The experiment
was successful and was terminated at that point,
although it could have continued.

Furthermore, your opinion seems to be an example of the
modern paradigm
--if the data disagrees with your theory, ignore it--
there are hundreds of
peer reviewed and accepted technical papers showing the
validity of these phenomena.

Astronaut-physicist Edgar Mitchell has an interesting
new quantum theory that
does a pretty good job of explaining these anomalies,
including why you don't
see people breaking the bank (I mean "you don't see",
not that it doesn't happen).



> >See
> >
> >http://www.monroeinstitute.org/programs/mcsquared.html
> >
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >Hoyt Stearns
> >Phoenix
> >http://www.turbotip.webhop.net

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 09:36:27 2001
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Subject: Re: Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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Chris Arnold posted;
>
>A link to the USPTO and my Patent - US  6,271,614 is at:
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
>http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>

Good to hear from you again Chris. I looked over your patent and 
didn't see any information about power in verses power out. I am 
hoping that you can enlighten us about this matter.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 09:57:40 2001
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To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: A way    4. The second law of thermodynamics
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	Dear Vo,


	Below is a thought experiment.
	
	For a real world practical experiment driven by Brownian motion
it is possible to examine the following:

	A)	Any of several stable molecules are employed which exhibit
an appropriate size and non symmetrical mechanical shape.
	B)	Possibly more effective are physical microstructures with
the appropriate size and non symmetrical mechanical shape.
	C)	The two chambers are separated with the correctly
fashioned opening.

	RESULT

	1)	After a period of time there may be a slow and fast
separation
	2)	To make this a real world operational system the two half
chambers are highly insulated in one section and exposed to the ambient
temperatures in another.
	3)	To "use" or tap the differential the application of the
thermal differential will probably be best exploited by periodic
conveyance to the appropriate thermal direct or indirect energy
conversion.


	Based in part on:


According to the second law of thermodynamics, heat cannot flow unassisted
from a cold to a warm body, nor Maxwell's
`demon' violates this law whatever the first impression. In fact it is
this thought experiment which was conducted at the University
of Essen in Germany using sand grains to imitate ideal gas molecules in a
box divided into two equal chambers by a baffle with a
hole in it. When the box is agitated and the sand is thus set in random
motion, it turns out that slower grains start to congregate in
the lower part of one chamber, implying an increase in the number of
faster particles in the second chamber. The reason why the
second law is not violated in this case is that sand grains cannot be
viewed as ideal molecules since they dissipate the energy of
their translational motion when colliding with each other. When grains
start to congregate in one of the chambers as a result of
their random motion, they loose more energy and became slower because of
more frequent collisions - leading to more
congregation. Source: Physics News Update, Number 461; Phys. Rev. Lett.,
December 20, 1999 

FROM:	http://ufn.ioc.ac.ru/news/eng/2000/0100.html


	Above is one of a series of thermal extractors, any of which can
produce useful energy.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 10:18:40 2001
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Or course, being a general unified theory, Larson's
Reciprocal System can explain this :-) :
It won't make much sense , however, without some
background in the Reciprocal System.

http://www.rsystem.org/rs/cwkvk/index.htm

Bruce writes:

The gravitational impulse of the Podkletnov experiment
was actually predicted by Dewey Larson in his 1984
publication, "Universe of Motion" (pgs
213-214), and refined by KVK Nehru in his 1988 paper,
"The Nature of the Stellar Matter", section 3.3,
"Thredules: the Seventh State of Matter,"
and his 1990 papers, "Is Ferromagnetism a Co-Magnetic
Phenomenon", and "Superconductivity: A Time Region
Phenomenon."
 
The gravitational impulse is a co-magnetic thredule,
being generated by the superconducting activity of the
emitter of the apparatus.
 
>From Nehru's paper, "The Nature of Stellar Matter":

       "...some of the change of position due to the
unobserved ultra-high speeds is represented in the
reference system in an indirect
       manner... the outward motion of the ultra high
speed... is applied to overcoming the inward
gravitational motion... Inasmuch as that
       gravitational motion has altered the position
[in the reference system] of the matter..., elimination
of the gravitational motion results in a
       movement of this matter back to the spatial
position that it would have occupied if the
gravitational motion had not taken place. Since it
       reverses a motion in the reference system, this
elimination of the gravitational change of position is
observable." --Nothing But Motion, p 213.
        
       "Inasmuch as the spatial motion component of the
ultra high speed motion is in a second scalar
dimension, it is perpendicular to the
       normal dimension of the reference system. This
perpendicular line cannot rotate in a third dimension
because the three-dimensional
       structure does not exist beyond unit speed
level. Thus, the representation of the motion in the
reference system is confined to a fixed
       line..."

A thredule is an ultra-high speed rectilinear thread of
co-magnetism (1-dimensional or "monopolar" magnetism).
Magnetism is an outward scalar
motion. Atoms, on the other hand, are an inward,
magnetic, rotational scalar motion. The net inward
rotational motion is the atom's "mass." When the
co-magnetic thredule (the "gravitational impulse")
interacts with the inward motion of the atoms of a
mass, some of that inward motion will
neutralized. The result: the atoms will move in the
direction of the thredule, in the direction of the
progression of the natural reference system --
outward. In the reference system, the objects will move
apart from each other. In the Podkletnov experiment,
the apparatus is fixed in the reference
system, so objects are seen to move away from it.
 
Since the interaction is between co-magnetism and
atomic magnetic rotation, the strength of the
interaction will be directly proportional to the mass
of
the object that the thredule intersects. (The volume
generated by the intersection of the thredule and mass,
that is). Composition will be irrelevant.
Also, mass or magnetism cannot shield the effect, as
co-magnetism is operant in a different scalar
dimension, and in a different speed range, than
normal magnetism.
 
Given the design of the Podkletnov apparatus, the
effect will be most pronounced in the direction of the
receiving sphere, as the other pole of the
co-magnetic thredule will be generated between the
surface of the emitting sphere and its center. However,
some of this other co-magnetic pole
should move axially from the emitting sphere, on the
same line as the two spheres, but away from the
receiving sphere.


Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.
President, ISUS
Phoenix

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 10:34:20 2001
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To: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
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Subject: Morton
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	Dear Folks,


	I studied morton's effect and had long telephone conversations
with him.

	I won't go into a lot of detail, other than to say he feels let
down many people look to his work, but he has not benefitted.

	If you want to try some experiments with the basic effect here is
what he was doing and what he suggests:

	A)	What you are going to do is allow a spark from a Van de
Graff generator to follow a planned path. The large curve of the sphere is
one "side" and this is why he suggests the use of these as generators of
the HV.  With care you could charge up a large sphere.

	B)	A glass tube is used as an insulator and guide.

	Toward the end of the tube AWAY from the sphere is the return
electrode for the arc.



	------------------------------	Sphere

		1	1
		1	1
		1	1
		1	1
		1	1
	        1	1@ <<<<<<<< return
lip >>>>>>>>>>	1	1  
 or
extension of end
of tube	

	C)	The spark goes from the sphere along the INSIDE of
			the tube... around the edge of the tube
			to a ring shaped return electrode...
		A metal washer works well

	D)	Depending on polarity the spark has different effects

	You best bet is to read the articles in the Electric Spacecraft
Journal ... and if you spend 100 USD on parts, send Morton 10 percents.

	E)	Glass tube and washer ... not too complicated

	This is a BRIEF description.


On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, ralph muha wrote:

> >Got the VDG back running again, and spent a couple of hours playing with
> >it.  This DOES do something interesting.  I'm letting sparks jump to a 24"
> >square of cardboard covered with aluminum foil, glued down with rubber
> >cement.
> 
> According to the text, Morton's target was grounded, and had a hole in it.
> The diagram doesn't show the grounding, but clearly shows the spark going thru
> the hole and curling backwards to the metal plate.  This suggests that the
> hole diameter is >= the inside diameter of the tube, perhaps even as large
> as the outside diameter, so that the edge of the tube would be flush with
> the plate...
> 
> >I messed about with thin glass tubes, and found that it's very difficult
> >to make a spark proceed along the interior.  Surface leakage probably
> 
> what about using a funnel?
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 10:52:33 2001
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John;

   I think there is a veritable army of us who would happily give Mr. Morton
credit.  He seems to have a low profile contact wise, however.  Is there any
way to contact Mr. Morton electronically?  Or is he willing to give his
phone number and address out?  Is he still experimenting, and if so, are any
new results forthcoming?  Perhaps if you have contact with him, you might be
able to see if he would be interested in posting his theories and findings
here.

On another note; the arrangement described with the glass tube and washer is
very similar to a TT Brown geometry, as well as what I have been playing
with.  The large sphere and small washer constitute an asymmetrical dipole,
producing a converging or diverging field.  When an arc occurs, this field
collapses and then builds again.  In a sense, it is analagous to a
capacitive discharge followed by an abrupt displacement current with a
converging character.  Maybe this combination can either cause a vacuum
coherence or aether impulse (depending on your model and semantics)

NR

----- Original Message -----
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: Morton


>
> Dear Folks,
>
>
> I studied morton's effect and had long telephone conversations
> with him.
>
> I won't go into a lot of detail, other than to say he feels let
> down many people look to his work, but he has not benefitted.
>
> If you want to try some experiments with the basic effect here is
> what he was doing and what he suggests:



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 10:55:47 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
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Subject: Re: Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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	Thank you Tom.

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, thomas malloy wrote:

> Chris Arnold posted;
> >
> >A link to the USPTO and my Patent - US  6,271,614 is at:
> ><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
> >http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>
> 
> Good to hear from you again Chris. I looked over your patent and 
> didn't see any information about power in verses power out. I am 
> hoping that you can enlighten us about this matter.
> 

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	Dear Nick,

	It was hard for me to get hold of him.  He has put down the work
and seems to treasure his privacy.  He continued to say the whole was
written up in ESJ.

					J

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Nick Reiter wrote:

> John;
> 
>    I think there is a veritable army of us who would happily give Mr. Morton
> credit.  He seems to have a low profile contact wise, however.  Is there any
> way to contact Mr. Morton electronically?  Or is he willing to give his
> phone number and address out?  Is he still experimenting, and if so, are any
> new results forthcoming?  Perhaps if you have contact with him, you might be
> able to see if he would be interested in posting his theories and findings
> here.
> 
> On another note; the arrangement described with the glass tube and washer is
> very similar to a TT Brown geometry, as well as what I have been playing
> with.  The large sphere and small washer constitute an asymmetrical dipole,
> producing a converging or diverging field.  When an arc occurs, this field
> collapses and then builds again.  In a sense, it is analagous to a
> capacitive discharge followed by an abrupt displacement current with a
> converging character.  Maybe this combination can either cause a vacuum
> coherence or aether impulse (depending on your model and semantics)
> 
> NR
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
> To: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
> Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 1:39 PM
> Subject: Morton
> 
> 
> >
> > Dear Folks,
> >
> >
> > I studied morton's effect and had long telephone conversations
> > with him.
> >
> > I won't go into a lot of detail, other than to say he feels let
> > down many people look to his work, but he has not benefitted.
> >
> > If you want to try some experiments with the basic effect here is
> > what he was doing and what he suggests:
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 12:48:12 2001
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Subject: Morton:  straight or jagged sparks?
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On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:

> 	A)	What you are going to do is allow a spark from a Van de
> Graff generator to follow a planned path. The large curve of the sphere is
> one "side" and this is why he suggests the use of these as generators of
> the HV.  With care you could charge up a large sphere.
> 
> 	B)	A glass tube is used as an insulator and guide.

Do you know if those straight,  bright, loud sparks are the ones to
pursue?  Or will the dim, branching, jagged ones work too?   As I
understand things, the bright ones create extremely short and immense
impulses, while the dim ones are like a slow "stepped leader" in
thunderstorms, and the impulses are far wider and smaller.

Also, in your ASCII diagram, the spark will always start out from the
sharp outer edge of the washer and leap TOWARDS the sphere through the
air.  Any idea of how he forced the sparks to follow the inside of the
tube?  A fairly large metal plate might do this (it keeps the sharp outer
edges far away from the VDG sphere.)



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William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
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William Beaty wrote:
> 
> Also, in your ASCII diagram, the spark will always start out from the
> sharp outer edge of the washer and leap TOWARDS the sphere through the
> air.  Any idea of how he forced the sparks to follow the inside of the
> tube?  A fairly large metal plate might do this (it keeps the sharp outer
> edges far away from the VDG sphere.)

I tried this experiment many months back without success. I had too much
ion loss from the Van de Graaf, that not enough charge built could be
maintained. Anyway, I took a bic pen and used the hollow plastic tube
body instead of a glass tube. I then took a plastic bottle cap and
covered the inside with aluminum foil, as such:

		___________    __________
		|			|	(interior was coated with aluminum foil)
		|__________    _________|	(plastic bottle cap with hole in center)
			|	|
			|	|
			|	| (hollow plastic pen tube)
			|	|
			|	|
			|	|
			|	|
			|	|
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ (Positive Van
de Graaf sphere)
							   (actually curved)

In theory, the spark was supposed to jump from the sphere to the
aluminum foil, since that is the shorted path, instead of going around
the surface of the plastic.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 13:01:26 2001
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Message-ID: <3B758CB4.4CD80475 verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:51:16 +0300
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Please tell us distance dependence of the impulse and it should be a back reaction or not according these texts.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

> 
> Bruce writes:
> 
> The gravitational impulse of the Podkletnov experiment
> was actually predicted by Dewey Larson in his 1984
> publication, "Universe of Motion" (pgs
> 213-214), and refined by KVK Nehru in his 1988 paper,
> "The Nature of the Stellar Matter", section 3.3,
> "Thredules: the Seventh State of Matter,"
> and his 1990 papers, "Is Ferromagnetism a Co-Magnetic
> Phenomenon", and "Superconductivity: A Time Region
> Phenomenon."
> 
> The gravitational impulse is a co-magnetic thredule,
> being generated by the superconducting activity of the
> emitter of the apparatus.
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 13:06:45 2001
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On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:

> 
> 	It was hard for me to get hold of him.  He has put down the work
> and seems to treasure his privacy.  He continued to say the whole was
> written up in ESJ.

The version with the VDG machine is only briefly described, and no
dimensions were given.  There is a simple diagram, but I suspect it was
made by someone who never saw the actual device.  The other versions (disk
with rod, driven by an HV power supply) are similar.


He probably has never heard of the OTHER Pons-Fleischman effect.  That's
where you don't publish enough clear instructions to guarantee easy
replication, and then when most replications fail, people assume it was a
mistake to being with, and the entire "herd" switches from curious to
scoffing. 



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 13:11:38 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Subject: Re: Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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In a message dated 8/11/2001 1:58:28 PM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:

 > Good to hear from you again Chris. I looked over your patent and 
 > didn't see any information about power in verses power out. I am 
 > hoping that you can enlighten us about this matter. 

Actually - who cares about power in and power out -
Negative Entropy means it is getting cooler when power is supplied. 
Negative Entropy "IS" an indicator of a ZPE tap.
The reason no other motor on Earth does this - Logic says - "it's not only a 
motor".

All other DC motors have at least 4 commutator contacts - This one has only 
THREE. Every motor expert I told this to immediately ended the conversation. 
It would seem they did not believe me - that still doesn't change the facts 
and the device still works. 

Now why are my claims referring to particle interactions and why have I made 
reference to fusion, particle physics and plasmas, like I have been saying 
all along - my invention is much more than people can believe, now. What do 
hot plasma fusion, EV patents and Tesla have to do with a motor / generator? 
Answered at my web page.

A lot is covered at my web site and the rest is in my patent. Now that my 
complete disclosure has been made - it's time for someone other than myself 
to invest in this technology. Further answers require R&D funding.

Could it be that my invention is just TOO unique to be understood right now? 
Maybe.

My question - who is going to provide the money I need to continue?

Best Regards,               
Chris Arnold
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>

"Something old, is new again."

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>From disussion:


The Electric Spacecraft Journal published some papers to the Morton 
effect.

Morton's space drive:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electroaerodynamics/files/Morton/morton1
.pdf

"I tried firing Van de Graaf sparks through a glass tube at a metal 
target.
A new effect showed up in the form of  a narrow beam that ionized 
everything in
its path.
The beam could either attract or repel matter. See Figure 3 (Charles 
Morton
said that the effects
did not work using Wimshurst generator.)

mass at the
other.
Fifty-thousand volts were required to produce thrust forces.
...
In 1974 I decided this could not be a pure electric field or magnetic 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electroaerodynamics/files/Morton/morton2
.pdf

The Pulse Device by Klaus Schlecht from the University of Karlsruhe.

Klaus built a device based on the Morton effect and called it a 
tachionator.

I kindly ask Ron Kita from the ESJ Network to forward me his present 
address
and e-mail contact.
Thank you in advance.

> pendulum mass being deflected is inside a vacuum chamber.  
> At the very least, this cannot be sound.  If it is a mistake,
> it has to be some kind of weird EM thing rather than an
> acoustic pulse.  But radio waves don't form the tight
> beams described unless their wavelength is way less than
> 1mm (it would be sub-millimeter microwaves or shorter).
> And radio waves don't deflect pendulua unless the energy 
> flow is absolutely immense.  If you stuck your hand in
> a narrow beam of megawatt microwaves, you'd know it!
> Same if it was x-rays.  (Test for x-rays with some zinc
> sulfide glow-in-the-dark plastic toys.)
> 
> But then...    he claims that the beam goes right through
> metal objects.  If it was microwaves, the metal would

> an antigravity engine, eh?
> 
> One ESJ article mentions "tunneling talcum powder into
> containers", also "vanishing powder."   What does that
> mean?

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	Dear Bill, ...and all...

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, William Beaty wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:
> 
> > 	A)	What you are going to do is allow a spark from a Van de
> > Graff generator to follow a planned path. The large curve of the sphere is
> > one "side" and this is why he suggests the use of these as generators of
> > the HV.  With care you could charge up a large sphere.
> > 
> > 	B)	A glass tube is used as an insulator and guide.
> 
> Do you know if those straight,  bright, loud sparks are the ones to
> pursue?  Or will the dim, branching, jagged ones work too?   As I
> understand things, the bright ones create extremely short and immense
> impulses, while the dim ones are like a slow "stepped leader" in
> thunderstorms, and the impulses are far wider and smaller.
> 

	I think he was happy with powerful sparks...


> Also, in your ASCII diagram, the spark will always start out from the
> sharp outer edge of the washer and leap TOWARDS the sphere through the
> air.  Any idea of how he forced the sparks to follow the inside of the
> tube?  A fairly large metal plate might do this (it keeps the sharp outer
> edges far away from the VDG sphere.)

	He said he did a lot of different thigs, and to try different
things.... he did use short pointed wire and other sharp things in the
tube to induce arcing.  
he had best results on dry days when he was able to build up big charges.

	J


> 
> 
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 13:29:00 2001
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On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Hoyt Stearns Jr. wrote:

> Furthermore, your opinion seems to be an example of the modern paradigm
> --if the data disagrees with your theory, ignore it-- there are hundreds
> of peer reviewed and accepted technical papers showing the validity of
> these phenomena. 

Actually, his attitude is the main reason for the existance of vortex-L. 

I intended this forum to be a place where nobody need deal with attacks
and time-wasting intellectual dishonesty of hostile scoffers regarding
cold fusion.  But CF is not the central topic anymore.  The current Rule
#2 and its addendum are below.  Rule #2 is quite vague on this, and also
confuses things by mixing in an anti-flamewar rule.  By concentrating on
CF it ignores the fact that many people are open and curious about some
subject areas, but are total raging Pathological Skeptics in other areas. 
I'm going to change the rule.  Vortex-L subscribers, please read the
following (the current rule and addendum.)

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
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Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

2. This is not the sci.physics.fusion newsgroup; ridicule, debunkery, and
   namecalling between believers and skeptics are forbidden.  The tone 
   should be one of legitimate disagreement and respectful debate. 
   Vortex-L is a big nasty nest of 'true believers' (hopefully having 
   some tendency to avoid self-deception,) and skeptics may as well leave 
   in disgust.  But if your mind is open and you wish to test "crazy"
   claims rather than ridiculing them or explaining them away, hop on 
   board!

Rule#2 addendum (below)
http://www.amasci.com/weird/vmore.txt

THE VORTEX-L DISCUSSION GROUP

To put it bluntly, Vortex-L is a forum for "true believers." 

Skeptics are tolerated but not welcomed.  For yet another definition of
the two types of people, see the excellent article in a recent issue of
SKEPTIC, V5 #2, "Skepticism and Credulity: finding the balance between
Type I and Type II errors" by B. Wisdom. 

The article discusses the philosophy behind two types of mental attitude:

   1. 'Skeptics:' those who, in order to reject all falsehoods, don't mind
      accidentally rejecting truths.

   2. 'Believers:' those who, in order to accept all truths, don't mind
      accidentally accepting falsehoods.

A few people fall between these two descriptions.  However, there is
significant polarization as well: whose who are solidly in one camp or the
other greatly outnumber outnumber those who succeed in remaining between
the two.

I have observed that each camp holds great disrespect for the other,
bordering on hatred.  The Scoffers regard the opposite camp as dangerously
gullible "true believers" who would allow science to be damaged by
irrational beliefs in things such as UFOs, psi phenomena, Free Energy,
etc.  And the Believers regard the other side as dangerously closeminded
"pathological skeptics" who create a witch-hunt atmosphere which
suppresses curiousity and "preserves" science from the crazy notions of
folks like Galileo, Goddard, the Wrights, Margulis, etc. 

A few years ago the sci.physics.fusion newsgroup was increasingly becoming
a battleground for the two types.  Those who reasoned that "we must study
cold fusion because there is some evidence that it is real," were
constantly attacked by those who believe "we must reject cold fusion
because there is little evidence for it."  And vice versa.  Particularly
shameful was the amount of hostility including sneering ridicule,
emotional arguments, arrogant self-blindness, and great use of the low,
unscientific techniques outlined in ZEN AND THE ART OF DEBUNKERY. 
(See http://www.amasci.com/weird/wclose.html)

I started this group as an openminded "quiet harbor" for interested
parties to discuss the Griggs Rotor away from the sci.physics.fusion
uproar.  It quickly mutated into a "believers forum" for discussion of
cold fusion and other anomalous physics.  I created Rule #2 to prevent
this list from becoming another battleground like the sci.physics.fusion
newsgroup.  Vortex-L is intended to be a discussion area for researchers
who practice extreme openmindedness and who will "accept falsehoods in
order to avoid rejecting truths". 

I believe that many scientists reject new ideas because they unknowingly
maintain an illusory worldview which is based on concensus of colleagues
rather than upon evidence, and as a result they are very intolerant of
ideas which violate that consensus.  This forum is for those with a low
tolerance for consensus-think and a high tolerance for "crazy ideas."

Vortex-L is for those who see great value in removing their usual mental
filters by provisionally accepting the validity of "impossible" phenomena
in order to test them.  This excellent quote found by Gene Mallove clearly
states the problem, and reveals the need for "true believers" in a science
community otherwise ruled by conservative scoffers:

  "It is really quite amazing by what margins competent but conservative
  scientists and engineers can miss the mark, when they start with the
  preconceived idea that what they are investigating is impossible.  When
  this happens, the most well-informed men become blinded by their
  prejudices and are unable to see what lies directly ahead of them." 
   - Arthur C. Clarke, 1963

So, on Vortex-L we intentionally suspend the disbelieving attitude of
those who follow the stereotypical "scientific method."  While this
does leave us open to the great personal embarrassment of falling for
hoaxes and delusional thinking, we tolerate this problem in our quest to
consider ideas and phenomena which would otherwise be rejected out of hand
without a fair hearing.  There are diamonds in the filth, and we see that
we cannot hunt for diamonds without getting dirty. 

Note that skepticism of the openminded sort is perfectly acceptable on
Vortex-L.  The ban here is aimed at scoffing and "hostile disbelief," and
at the sort of Skepticism which angrily disbelieves all that is not
solidly proved true, while ignoring all new data and observations which
conflict with widely accepted theory.



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 13:33:24 2001
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Subject: "Believers" who are scoffers
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I just remembered an excellent bit from Sofkam's MYTHS OF SKEPTICISM.  He
describes the opposite problem:  a gung-ho skeptic who believes in a very
crackpot subject.  See below.

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L


  MYTHS OF SKEPTICISM, Inquiring Skeptics of NY
  http://www.rpi.edu/~sofkam/talk/talk.html

Myth #9: Skepticism makes one less vulnerable to errors of reasoning or
illogic.

I think anybody who reads sci.skeptic or other online forums will quickly
disabuse themselves of this belief. There are many ``hot button'' issues
such as global warming, population, economic systems, atheism vs.
agnosticism, etc. which result in seemingly pointless debate far removed
from the data (unless you agree with my view, in which care your data is
acceptable). Many issues are complex and the data is subject to
interpretation. My own informal observation is that skeptics, qua skeptics
are no better at making sense of this data than the average person. Note,
many skeptics (especially those online) are scientists and they do have
expertise in particular fields. But, are their knowledge and reasoning
skills better than the typical expert in the same field?

Occasionally you will find a person who claims to be more rational because
they are skeptics, pure and simple. For example, we once had a member of
ISUNY (The Inquiring Skeptics of Upper New York) who is about as skeptical
as they come. He is an atheist, and believes that you cannot be a true
skeptic without being an atheist (seem myth 14 below). He would tell
stories of challenging a dowser double or nothing to divert water from his
basement. He took community classes just to hassle the instructors. He and
his wife showed up at our second meeting wearing ``number one skeptic''
and ``number two skeptic'' badges. He also believes the holocaust is a
myth created by a Zionists conspiracy, and perpetuated by the state of
Israel for the purpose of extorting money from the German government.  He
eventually quit ISUNY---I guess we were not skeptical enough for his
sensibilities.

<snip>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 13:33:26 2001
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Sender: hoyt eskimo.com
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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 13:52:31 -0700
From: "Hoyt Stearns Jr." <hoyt-stearns home.com>
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Subject: Re: Podkletnov explained
References: <3B756D4A.B41BAE4F home.com> <3B758CB4.4CD80475@verisoft.com.tr>
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hamdi ucar wrote:
> 
> Please tell us distance dependence of the impulse and it should be a back reaction or not according these texts.

Greetings,

Dr. Nehru understands this much better than I, if you
care to ask him:

         kvk nehru <k_nehru yahoo.com>

however, my understanding is that there is no
divergence of a threadule, and there would
be a back reaction   (it's just an apparent reaction,
as the actual effect is the
masses resuming their part of the expansion of the
universe to some extent, i.e. every point
moving away from every other-- outward scalar motion).

This information got me thinking about some
implications, but I haven't pondered it enough
to come to any conclusions:

1.  Sun Spots are caused by threadules emerging from
the sun-- if we're in the path of one
what would we notice here?  Actually, it just occurred
to me that we wouldn't be in the path
because they are well above and below the solar
equator, as Nehru has explained:

http://www.rsystem.org/rs/cwkvk/sunpart2.htm

2. Can energy be extracted from this phenomenon?

3. Can this be used as a weapon?

4. Can this be used for communication?

5. Can this be used to influence people or physical
experiments at a distance?


Best Regards,
Hoyt Stearns
Phoenix
> >
> > Bruce writes:
> >
> > The gravitational impulse of the Podkletnov experiment
> > was actually predicted by Dewey Larson in his 1984
> > publication, "Universe of Motion" (pgs
> > 213-214), and refined by KVK Nehru in his 1988 paper,
> > "The Nature of the Stellar Matter", section 3.3,
> > "Thredules: the Seventh State of Matter,"
> > and his 1990 papers, "Is Ferromagnetism a Co-Magnetic
> > Phenomenon", and "Superconductivity: A Time Region
> > Phenomenon."
> >
> > The gravitational impulse is a co-magnetic thredule,
> > being generated by the superconducting activity of the
> > emitter of the apparatus.
> >

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 13:48:09 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: crude test of Morton effect
In-Reply-To: <v03110702b79ac2923476 [206.243.174.23]>
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I tried making a "funnel" using a 5" square of acrylic with a 3" glass
tube mounted in the center.  I placed this against the VDG sphere.  Didn't
work.  It suppressed all sparking.  At the gap where I glued the glass
tube to the acrylic (with Crazy Glue and accelerator), a distinct hissing
was apparant.  Something there was acting as a sharp edge and producing
large ion currents which short out the whole system.

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 14:52:35 2001
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Subject: morton.pdf
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On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:

> The Electric Spacecraft Journal published some papers to the Morton 
> effect.
> 
> Morton's space drive:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electroaerodynamics/files/Morton/morton1
> .pdf


"No such group."   Is that paper online elsewhere?  I have the original,
but others probably would like to see it.



((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 16:07:22 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
To: <greenglow yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <cay@electricspacecraft.com>,
        <war123 aztec.asu.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010811134809.24030F-100000 college.antioch-college.edu> <3B758B49.37142031@enter.net>
Subject: Re: [antigrav] Re: New Podkletnov experiment similar to Morton's
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:06:19 -0400
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There was a paper in the 2001 June issue of Electric Spacecraft that =
clarifies how Polarization Waves do not satisfy standard "skin depth" =
calculations.=20
http://www.electricspacecraft.com/bissues.htm=20

A rather comprehensive article and with examples, and it was submitted =
by Emeritus Professor Les Hale of Penn State University who describes =
how Electric Polarization Waves from lightning-related electric fields, =
when rapidly applied, will penetrate normal metallic shielding deeper =
than predicted by the mathematical concept of skin depth. He decries =
that this information is NOT to be found in standard texts dealing with =
polarization of dielectric materials, and especially through metals.=20



"Depending on the geometry, the polarization waves will frequently =
penetrate the shielding virtually unattenuated, because in the 1-D =
approximation they satisfy curl E =3D 0, and hence have no time-varying =
magnetic fields." ( Les Hale. ESJ. June 2001. Issue #32, p.8 )



By utilizing a superconductor, the Podkletnov experiment (2X10^6 V.   =
10X^4 A. ) may be exhibiting a more coherent form of p.-wave than does =
the Morton experiment.=20

Whatever the exact mechanism eventually turns out to be, additional =
Morton experiments should more easily reveal to us the underlying =
electrodynamics. (fewer variables, and easier to perform.) One thing =
though-  I believe that perhaps a Marksbank generator might be the =
better power supply to utilize than the Van de Graff generator.

Best Regards,
Colin Quinney
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: David Rosignoli=20
  To: greenglow yahoogroups.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 3:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [antigrav] Re: New Podkletnov experiment similar to =
Morton's




  John Schnurer wrote:
  >=20
  >         Dear Robert,
  >=20
  >         Q: What is an EM helicon wave?
  >=20
  >         Where can we find out about examples of this.
  >=20
  >         Metal is transparent to EM at lower frequencies....in =
general as
  > the frequency is raised the penetration is reduced to an absorption =
then a
  > reflection.

  Table 8-1 of "Field and Wave Electromagnetics" by David Cheng (not the
  best EM textbook, but was at hand) gives skin depth for various
  materials at 60Hz as:

  Silver            8.27mm (sigma=3D6.17e7)
  Copper            8.53mm      (sigma=3D5.80e7)
  Gold            10.14mm      (sigma=3D4.1e7)
  Aluminum      10.92mm      (sigma=3D3.54e7)
  Iron            0.65      (sigma=3D1e7)
  Seawater      32m      (sigma=3D4)

  where skin depth=3D 1/(sqrt(pi*freq*mu*sigma))
  where sigma=3Dconductivity in S/m and mu=3Dpermeability
       =20
  So, I wouldn't necessarily say that the "metal is transparent", but =
just
  allows for a higher penetration. For a thick enough conductor, no
  transverse EM plane wave will penetrate.
  (And yes, I am aware of the difficulty of shielding 50 or 60 Hz line
  frequency.)

  >         Is is possible to induce currents in metals with electric,
  > magnetic and EM fields thet, in turn, may radiate.
  >=20
  >         I have just never heard of the term "helicon".
  >=20
  > On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, Robert Stirniman wrote:
  >=20
  > > Bill Beaty wrote:
  > > > But then...    he claims that the beam goes right through
  > > > metal objects.  If it was microwaves, the metal would
  > > > act just like a mirror.
  > >
  > > Metal objects can be transparent to EM helicon waves.
  > >

  To Post a message, send it to:   greenglow eGroups.com

  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: =
greenglow-unsubscribe eGroups.com=20

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


------=_NextPart_000_00BA_01C12298.B414A5F0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>There was a=20
paper in the 2001 June issue of Electric Spacecraft that clarifies how=20
Polarization Waves do&nbsp;<EM>not</EM> satisfy standard "skin depth"=20
calculations.&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3><A=20
href=3D"http://www.electricspacecraft.com/bissues.htm">http://www.electri=
cspacecraft.com/bissues.htm</A>=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman" size=3D3>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR>A rather&nbsp;comprehensive =
article and=20
with examples, and it was submitted by Emeritus Professor Les Hale of =
Penn State=20
University who describes how Electric Polarization Waves from =
lightning-related=20
electric fields, when rapidly applied, will penetrate normal metallic=20
shielding&nbsp;deeper than predicted by the mathematical concept of skin =
depth.=20
He decries that this information is&nbsp;NOT to be found in standard =
texts=20
dealing with polarization of dielectric materials,&nbsp;and especially =
through=20
metals.<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>"Depending on the geometry, the polarization waves will =
frequently=20
penetrate the shielding <EM>virtually unattenuated</EM>, because in the =
1-D=20
approximation they satisfy curl E =3D 0, and hence have no time-varying =
magnetic=20
fields." ( Les Hale. ESJ. June 2001. Issue #32, p.8 )</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>By utilizing&nbsp;a =
superconductor,=20
the Podkletnov experiment (2X10^6&nbsp;V.   10X^4 A. ) may be =
exhibiting&nbsp;a=20
more coherent form of&nbsp;p.-wave than does the&nbsp;Morton=20
experiment.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Whatever the exact =
mechanism eventually=20
turns out to be, additional Morton&nbsp;experiments&nbsp;should more =
easily=20
reveal to us&nbsp;</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>the =
underlying=20
electrodynamics. (fewer variables, and easier to perform.) One thing =
though-=20
&nbsp;I&nbsp;believe that&nbsp;perhaps a Marksbank generator might =
be&nbsp;the=20
better power supply to utilize than&nbsp;the Van de Graff=20
generator.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Best Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Colin =
Quinney</FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddrdaveor enter.net href=3D"mailto:drdaveor@enter.net">David =

  Rosignoli</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dgreenglow yahoogroups.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:greenglow yahoogroups.com">greenglow@yahoogroups.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, August 11, 2001 =
3:45=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [antigrav] Re: New =

  Podkletnov experiment similar to Morton's</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><TT><BR><BR>John Schnurer wrote:<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dear =
Robert,<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Q: What is an =
EM=20
  helicon wave?<BR>&gt; =
<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  Where can we find out about examples of this.<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Metal is =
transparent=20
  to EM at lower frequencies....in general as<BR>&gt; the frequency is =
raised=20
  the penetration is reduced to an absorption then a<BR>&gt;=20
  reflection.<BR><BR>Table 8-1 of "Field and Wave Electromagnetics" by =
David=20
  Cheng (not the<BR>best EM textbook, but was at hand) gives skin depth =
for=20
  various<BR>materials at 60Hz =
as:<BR><BR>Silver&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8.27mm=20
  (sigma=3D6.17e7)<BR>Copper&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8.53mm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  (sigma=3D5.80e7)<BR>Gold&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 10.14mm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  (sigma=3D4.1e7)<BR>Aluminum&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  10.92mm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  (sigma=3D3.54e7)<BR>Iron&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 0.65&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  (sigma=3D1e7)<BR>Seawater&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  32m&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (sigma=3D4)<BR><BR>where skin =
depth=3D=20
  1/(sqrt(pi*freq*mu*sigma))<BR>where sigma=3Dconductivity in S/m and=20
  mu=3Dpermeability<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>So, I wouldn't =

  necessarily say that the "metal is transparent", but just<BR>allows =
for a=20
  higher penetration. For a thick enough conductor, no<BR>transverse EM =
plane=20
  wave will penetrate.<BR>(And yes, I am aware of the difficulty of =
shielding 50=20
  or 60 Hz=20
  =
line<BR>frequency.)<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
  Is is possible to induce currents in metals with electric,<BR>&gt; =
magnetic=20
  and EM fields thet, in turn, may radiate.<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have just =
never=20
  heard of the term "helicon".<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, =
Robert=20
  Stirniman wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Bill Beaty wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; But=20
  then...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; he claims that the beam goes right =
through<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; metal objects.&nbsp; If it was microwaves, the metal =
would<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; &gt; act just like a mirror.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Metal =
objects can=20
  be transparent to EM helicon waves.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR></TT><BR><TT>To =
Post a=20
  message, send it to:&nbsp;&nbsp; greenglow eGroups.com<BR><BR>To =
Unsubscribe,=20
  send a blank message to: greenglow-unsubscribe eGroups.com</TT>=20
  <BR><BR><TT>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
  href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of =
Service</A>.</TT>=20
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 22:02:29 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
Message-ID: <116.3060491.28a76797 aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:01:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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(this is a resend as the one sent at 13:10 of 8/11/01 never posted on vortex)

In a message dated 8/11/2001 1:58:28 PM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:

 > Good to hear from you again Chris. I looked over your patent and 
 > didn't see any information about power in verses power out. I am 
 > hoping that you can enlighten us about this matter. 

Actually - who cares about power in and power out -
Negative Entropy means it is getting cooler when power is supplied. 
Negative Entropy "IS" an indicator of a ZPE tap.
The reason no other motor on Earth does this - Logic says - "it's not only a 
motor".

All other DC motors have at least 4 commutator contacts - This one has only 
THREE. Every motor expert I told this to immediately ended the conversation. 
It would seem they did not believe me - that still doesn't change the facts 
and the device still works. 

Now why are my claims referring to particle interactions and why have I made 
reference to fusion, particle physics and plasmas, like I have been saying 
all along - my invention is much more than people can believe, now. What do 
hot plasma fusion, EV patents and Tesla have to do with a motor / generator? 
Answered at my web page.

A lot is covered at my web site and the rest is in my patent. Now that my 
complete disclosure has been made - it's time for someone other than myself 
to invest in this technology. Further answers require R&D funding.

Could it be that my invention is just TOO unique to be understood right now? 
Maybe.

My question - who is going to provide the money I need to continue?

Best Regards,               
Chris Arnold
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>

"Something old, is new again."

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 11 23:25:44 2001
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Message-ID: <003101c122f7$b7b455c0$0f7fea18 dogdoo>
From: "Vince Cockeram" <vcockeram lvcm.com>
To: "DENNIS WUNDER" <DJPW aol.com>, "TOM WEAVER" <TWEAVER@US.IBM.COM>,
        "VORTEX-L" <VORTEX-L eskimo.com>, "Vince" <earthdog88@lvcm.com>,
        "ARLENE STRIDER" <ASTRIDER CHESAPEAKE.NET>,
        "BILL STRAW" <BLP14 EARTHLINK.NET>,
        "FRED SPARBER" <FJSPARBER EARTHLINK.NET>,
        "FLORENCE SIEVERIGHT" <FSIEV1 aol.com>,
        "JOEL SCHIMINOFF" <BOATGUY PRODIGY.NET>,
        "LISA POLESE" <LP9165 aol.com>, "FRED MOX" <GFMOX@US.IBM.COM>,
        "FRED MOX" <MOX US.IBM.COM>,
        "LORRAINE MARIE LITTLESTONE" <THESTONE BELLATLANTIC.NET>,
        "WARREN HUYCK" <WHUYCK IPASS.NET>,
        "BILL HOWELL" <MISTIQUE POCKETMAIL.COM>,
        "WILLIAM GOOD" <WGOOD BLACKLIGHTPOWER.COM>,
        "DAVID FERBER" <VERDIAN aol.com>, "DOUGLAS ERWIN" <DGERWIN@US.IBM.COM>,
        "DOUG ERWIN" <DGERWIN aol.com>, "PAUL DUMESNIL" <PADSR@MICROD.COM>,
        "FRANCIS CHIAPPA" <CHIAPSKI aol.com>,
        "DIANE BUSDRIVER" <TINKERBELL2 mindspring.com>,
        "APRIL" <TCAMP47101 aol.com>
Subject: CHANGE OF E-MAIL ADDRESS
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 23:25:53 -0700
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All.

I have changed my internet service provider in Las Vegas to:

VCOCKERAM LVCM.COM

Please update whatever you need to to reflect the change.
I will be keeping the old America Online E-Mail address for a couple of
months.

I am enjoying retirement immensly, doing what I want whenever I want to. No
more
schedules or deadlines to meet running experiments in my lab and pickin'
guitar.
It's a good life and I love it.

Regards to all,

Vince Cockeram
Las Vegas Nevada

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 03:04:48 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Test of Morton effect... nada
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1010811145054.23862F-100000 eskimo.com>
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I finally managed to duplicate something vaguely similar to Morton's
VandeGraaff test.  No interesting results.

I dented the center of the aluminum-coated cardboard to produce a involute
curve about 1" in diameter, then cut a crude hole in the dented region
about 3/4" diameter.  A quick test shows that the sharp edges don't
produce any corona (and the sparks don't tend to switch to dim/branching
mode, and don't tend to home in on the hole edges.) 

I tested 2cm glass tubing, also 1" I.D. acrylic, both approx 3" long.  The
glass is useless since its surface adsorbs humidity, and rather than
producing sparks, the surface of the glass glows very dim blue in the dark
and hisses.  I suppose I could bake it out with a propane torch, but first
I'm playing with the acrylic.

The sparks ignore the acrylic, they only rarely go through the tube. 
Therefore I affixed the tube in an acrylic plate approx 5"x7", sealed flat
to the end of the tube with plexi #3 cement, with a big hole poked through
the flat plastic.  I taped this to the aluminum foil.

Sparks now follow the inside of the plastic tube surface.  They repeat at
about 2Hz, and are slightly jagged, but are bright and make a "crack"
sound.  They no longer have that line-like geometry which they exhibit
when in the free air between the VDG sphere and the flat foil.  If that
"line like" effect is important, well, the presence of the tube is
screwing it up.

Walking around the setup while holding a 6" flourescent tube and a 12" 
flourescent tube does not reveal any hotspots (no apparent "beams".)  The
flourescent tube flashes brightly when held against the cardboard opposite
the side receiving the sparks.  However, this is handheld, and when I
instead attached the 6" flourescent tube to a long plexiglas rod, the
bright flashing no longer occurs.  When the fluor. tube on the rod is held
in various positions against the foil, I see no flash.  When held in the
region near the hole in the cardboard, no flash.  As long as I keep it
within about 24" of the VDG sphere, there is a dim flash if I hold the
tube anywhere but behind the foil-covered cardboard.  Even if I approach
the VDG sphere quite closely, the flash is dim.  As long as the flour.
tube is suspended on plastic, the foil-covered cardboard does create a
"shadow"  region behind itself.  Exploring the region on the opposite side
of the sphere in line with the sparking does not reveal any hotspots there
either.

The collapsing e-fields surrounding the VDG sphere do affect the hair on
my arms, and as long as the machine is sparking, I feel like I'm being hit
by high-velocity feathers.  The surface of my hands cannot feel this (no
hair to respond,) but the backs of my hands do feel it.  I suspect that my
hair is intercepting the ion flow in the air around the VDG and becoming
charged.  When I first present my arm to the VDG sphere, I barely feel the
pulses, but after about 5 seconds the feeling grows strong.  I imagine
that uncharged hair barely responds, but once the hair becomes charged, it
wiggles far more when the e-fields change.  This "feather impact" effect
is not present behind the grounded cardboard panel.  No "beams" of
hair-pulsing can be felt there, or in the region greater than 3ft away
from the VDG sphere.

To sum up:  I see no major difference between this setup and a simple
sphere-pair with sparks jumping between.  There are various EM and ion
pulse effects, but these occur in a roughly spherical region around the
device, and there are no "beams" extending outwards.  The original Morton
diagram doesn't work as shown, since the sparks ignore the tube and leap
through the air (I had to cover the metal facing the VDG sphere with
plastic to force sparks to go through the tube.) 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 10:12:16 2001
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Message-ID: <003901c12352$05748fa0$0201a8c0 m>
From: "Michael Randall" <vrand01 earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Pravda Releases More Info On Sensational Energy Source Discovery
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:12:52 -0700
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Here is an update story from Pravda.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: KJ van Vlaenderen=20
To: Sweet-VTA yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: [Sweet-VTA] very spectacular Russion invention


  Hi,

  I forward this link from a Dutch Zero Point Energy mail-group
  (from Johan Roland).


  http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nrussen.htm


  It is about a new material with extra ordinary properties
  after some conditioning process.
  This material, made by a Russion research team, is
  not unlike Sweet's VTA.
  The Pravda reports on this "new" invention.


  Regards to all,
  Koen van Vlaenderen

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sweet-VTA-unsubscribe egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20


------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C12317.58A7DAA0
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Here is an update story from =
Pravda.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dkoen truth.myweb.nl href=3D"mailto:koen@truth.myweb.nl">KJ van=20
Vlaenderen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3DSweet-VTA yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Sweet-VTA yahoogroups.com">Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 12, 2001 7:50 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Sweet-VTA] very spectacular Russion =
invention</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3D2>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I forward this link from a Dutch Zero Point Energy =

  mail-group</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>(from Johan Roland).</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nrussen.htm">http://www.100=
megsfree4.com/farshores/nrussen.htm</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>It is about a new material with extra ordinary=20
  properties</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>after some conditioning process.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This material, made by a Russion research team,=20
  is</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>not unlike Sweet's VTA.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Pravda reports on this "new" =
invention.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Regards to all,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Koen van =
Vlaenderen</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><BR><TT>To=20
unsubscribe from this group, send an email=20
to:<BR>Sweet-VTA-unsubscribe egroups.com<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your =
use of=20
Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of =
Service</A>.</TT>=20
<BR></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0036_01C12317.58A7DAA0--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 11:19:17 2001
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Message-ID: <3B76C852.B3ACA30A verisoft.com.tr>
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:17:54 +0300
From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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References: <003901c12352$05748fa0$0201a8c0 m>
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Hi,

I found a related article on Pravda.


http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/07/26/11082.html

Pravda.RU:Main:More in detail

      20:06 2001-07-26
       PRAVDA.RU SPECIAL REPORT: ACADEMICIAN SOBOLEV’S
          DISCOVERIES RAISE CONFUSION AMONG RUSSIAN
                             SCIENTISTS 
> Michael Randall wrote:
> 
> Here is an update story from Pravda.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 11:34:55 2001
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:41:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Hypercom59 aol.com
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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	GENERAL QUESTION FOR ALL ZPE AND-OR VACUUM ENERGY PRACTICE

	Dear Chris,

	Will you please let us know:

	a]	What is getting cooler?
	
	b]	Or maybe what is meant by; 

	".........Negative Entropy means it is getting cooler 
		when power is supplied.	   ......"


	AND:  Given the common use of the terms;

		1)
	Exothermic is the term used to refer to actions or
reactions which become warmer
		
		2)
	Endothermic is the term used to refer to actions or
reactions which become cooler


	How or where do endothermic actions fit ?


		Please.


On Sat, 11 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/11/2001 1:58:28 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> 
>  > Good to hear from you again Chris. I looked over your patent and 
>  > didn't see any information about power in verses power out. I am 
>  > hoping that you can enlighten us about this matter. 
> 
> Actually - who cares about power in and power out -
> Negative Entropy means it is getting cooler when power is supplied. 
> Negative Entropy "IS" an indicator of a ZPE tap.
> The reason no other motor on Earth does this - Logic says - "it's not only a 
> motor".
> 
> All other DC motors have at least 4 commutator contacts - This one has only 
> THREE. Every motor expert I told this to immediately ended the conversation. 
> It would seem they did not believe me - that still doesn't change the facts 
> and the device still works. 
> 
> Now why are my claims referring to particle interactions and why have I made 
> reference to fusion, particle physics and plasmas, like I have been saying 
> all along - my invention is much more than people can believe, now. What do 
> hot plasma fusion, EV patents and Tesla have to do with a motor / generator? 
> Answered at my web page.
> 
> A lot is covered at my web site and the rest is in my patent. Now that my 
> complete disclosure has been made - it's time for someone other than myself 
> to invest in this technology. Further answers require R&D funding.
> 
> Could it be that my invention is just TOO unique to be understood right now? 
> Maybe.
> 
> My question - who is going to provide the money I need to continue?
> 
> Best Regards,               
> Chris Arnold
> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
> http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>
> 
> "Something old, is new again."
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 12:40:59 2001
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From: "Michael Randall" <vrand01 earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <003901c12352$05748fa0$0201a8c0 m> <3B76C852.B3ACA30A@verisoft.com.tr>
Subject: Re: Pravda Releases More Info On Sensational Energy Source Discovery
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:41:09 -0700
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Thank you Hamdi.  A quartz like electret grown in an 2000V electric field
that also has magnetic properties, with ampere size current output?!

Regards,
Michael Randall

----- Original Message -----
From: "hamdi ucar" <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pravda Releases More Info On Sensational Energy Source
Discovery


Hi,

I found a related article on Pravda.


http://english.pravda.ru/main/2001/07/26/11082.html

Pravda.RU:Main:More in detail

      20:06 2001-07-26
       PRAVDA.RU SPECIAL REPORT: ACADEMICIAN SOBOLEV'S
          DISCOVERIES RAISE CONFUSION AMONG RUSSIAN
                             SCIENTISTS
> Michael Randall wrote:
>
> Here is an update story from Pravda.

Regards,

hamdi ucar


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 12:47:36 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:44:13 EDT
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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In a message dated 8/12/01 1:50:40 PM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:

<GENERAL QUESTION FOR ALL ZPE AND-OR VACUUM ENERGY PRACTICE>

That's a great statement, however since nobody else has a working device that 
exhibits ZPE tapping (that will speak about it), it's really going to be hard 
to practice with it without one in hand.

<Will you please let us know:
 a] What is getting cooler?
 b] Or maybe what is meant by; 

    ".........Negative Entropy means it is getting cooler 
        when power is supplied.    ......">

Yes, I would be happy to explain what gets cooler.
One side effect of the device is motor function, except when voltage is 
supplied to the system - "ALL attached wires get cooler [Lost Heat], 
instantly."  Not only the electromagnetic drive coil - but all attached wires 
and in one video document a coil that was not electrically attached to the 
system lost heat too.  I cannot comment further about the separate coil event.

Dr. Peter Lindemann published "the free energy secrets of Cold Electricity" 
and although I have not read his book or viewed the video, what I have is 
possibly what he  is referring to.  I have talked to Dr. Lindemann and since 
my patent has actually issued (somewhat to my surprise) I may be able contact 
him without restriction.

<AND:  Given the common use of the terms;
    1) Exothermic is the term used to refer to actions or
reactions which become warmer
    2) Endothermic is the term used to refer to actions or
reactions which become cooler>

Do you agree that all non superconducting electric DC motors are exothermic?

Since my device gets cooler when power is supplied, the only other term you 
provide is "endothermic" - so if you have to call it that, its a free 
country.  I prefer to say "system negative entropy" or "negative system 
entropy."  Either label does not apply to currently available technology.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 12:52:44 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
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	Dear Bill,

	some methods you may wish to try:

	PE = poly ethylene
	PP = poly propylene

	PE and PP are great dielectrics.... make sure they are clean.
	Can be softened with IR heat lamp
	Try thumb tack to make 'spark-starter' inside the glass tube

	DO:  
	
	clean
	rounded not sharp
	dry
	styrofoam
	tan masking tape
	clear tape

	DON'T:

	dirt
	odd stuff in adhesives we don't know about	
	pigments
	carbon...pencil lines ... inks ...
	sharp pointy edges.


	BILL	:	I am sure you can add to this....

On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, William Beaty wrote:

> 
> I tried making a "funnel" using a 5" square of acrylic with a 3" glass
> tube mounted in the center.  I placed this against the VDG sphere.  Didn't
> work.  It suppressed all sparking.  At the gap where I glued the glass
> tube to the acrylic (with Crazy Glue and accelerator), a distinct hissing
> was apparant.  Something there was acting as a sharp edge and producing
> large ion currents which short out the whole system.
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 12:55:48 2001
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From: Keasy aol.com
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:54:47 EDT
Subject: Re: A basic Newtonian question
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In a message dated 8/9/01 4:29:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
hamdix verisoft.com.tr writes:

> In the context of Newtonian gravity, not GR, if two comparable objects, say 
> earth and moon pull each other, it is logical to say this interaction is 
the 
> consequence of gravitational fields of each objects. But if the 
gravitational 
> field of one objet is negligible compared to other's, say a mass 1 Kg on 
the 
> surface of Earth, it become challenging to say it again, weight of the 1 kg 
> mass is consequence of its tiny gravitational field. This become even more 
> challenging when a photon is diverged by a gravitational field of a star. 
>  
>  Is this logic flawed or not?
    Well, the usual way of looking at this is that a mass, m,  is attacted to 
a large mass, M, proportional to the the value of the mass m multiplied by 
the field created by the large mass M.  Of course the field from M decreases 
with 1/R^2 from its center of mass.
                                                                              
   Ken  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 13:14:36 2001
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Michael Randall wrote:
> 
> Thank you Hamdi.  A quartz like electret grown in an 2000V electric field
> that also has magnetic properties, with ampere size current output?!
> 
> Regards,
> Michael Randall
> 

from that page
>>>
...... Sobolev offers to build the new electric power plants of new generation on the ground of that. The sense is simple: conductors have to be placed in the generating field. Academician added there were some experiments made in that direction; the scie
ntists received the current in milliampere and now they work with amperes. 
<<<<

Even milliamps are enough to proof a new phenomenon, isn't it?

There would be no room for mistake if one have a magnetic charge on his hand, IMO.

BTW, there is a original news in russian at  http://pravda.ru/main/2001/07/26/30057.html

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 15:13:28 2001
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Hi,

While in a deep thought on the subject, looking for a similarity between magnetism and gravity I realized this thought experiment: :)

Prepare two ball formed of long thin coil wires where the wires are not wounded but squeezed randomly without any order, any direction, as a real junk. We ignore the effect of the leads or embed tiny battery inside the ball. Question is does these balls e
xtract forces on each others when they are energized? More precisely what will be the average of forces between two balls when considering inevitable inhomogenites?

If this question is not hard enough please apply AC then. 

I am also waiting your suggestions to make a perfect junk wire ball. 

I will post deep thoughts later. :)

Keasy aol.com wrote:
> 


Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 16:51:53 2001
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Keasy aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 8/9/01 4:29:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> hamdix verisoft.com.tr writes:
> 
> > In the context of Newtonian gravity, not GR, if two comparable objects, say
> > earth and moon pull each other, it is logical to say this interaction is
> the
> > consequence of gravitational fields of each objects. But if the
> gravitational
> > field of one objet is negligible compared to other's, say a mass 1 Kg on
> the
> > surface of Earth, it become challenging to say it again, weight of the 1 kg
> > mass is consequence of its tiny gravitational field. This become even more
> > challenging when a photon is diverged by a gravitational field of a star.
> >
> >  Is this logic flawed or not?
>     Well, the usual way of looking at this is that a mass, m,  is attacted to
> a large mass, M, proportional to the the value of the mass m multiplied by
> the field created by the large mass M.  Of course the field from M decreases
> with 1/R^2 from its center of mass.
> 
>    Ken

There is a fine point here. In Newtonian gravity there is no "field". Masses merely pull each others. There is no indirection. "Mass create gravity and gravity pull mass" is wrong in Newtonian logic. If one able to make a matter do not exert gravitational
 forces to other masses, We should NOT expect that mass is subject to gravity according Newtonian theory. In the opposite, we have right to assume that masses pull each other trough their gravitational forces. This statement can be extended to magnetism a
nd to electrostatic. Even we can replace "force" term with the "field".

On the other hand, general relativity is not compatible with this logic. Once space-time is curved by gravity, anything in this space should follows these curves (geodesics) this subject to the gravity regardless having gravitational capability or not. So
 if we discover that gravitational force is generated by a mechanism inside a matter and can be altered, General relativity possibly can not be adapted to this circumstance but Newtonian theory can.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 17:01:56 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
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Hamdi,

Perfect junk wire ball:

Take 100 feet of plastic-coated soft iron wire-  the type used in gardens to
tie up roses, etc. Every 3 or 4 inches do a hair-pin turn and fold the wire
abruptly back on itself. Continue this process until all 100 feet are used
up.

Bunch tie the "coil" and set in epoxy.

The magnetic fields will cancel just like a Hooper coil, and any residual
magnetism will be held inside the wire due to it's permeability.

Balance two of these "coils" on a platform.

Spin the platform, and commutate DC or AC power to only quadrants 1 & 2.

I have one of these coils now. I wish I had "wound" two of them.

Colin Quinney


----- Original Message -----
From: "hamdi ucar" <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: A basic Newtonian question


> Hi,
>
> While in a deep thought on the subject, looking for a similarity between
magnetism and gravity I realized this thought experiment: :)
>
> Prepare two ball formed of long thin coil wires where the wires are not
wounded but squeezed randomly without any order, any direction, as a real
junk. We ignore the effect of the leads or embed tiny battery inside the
ball. Question is does these balls extract forces on each others when they
are energized? More precisely what will be the average of forces between two
balls when considering inevitable inhomogenites?
>
> If this question is not hard enough please apply AC then.
>
> I am also waiting your suggestions to make a perfect junk wire ball.
>
> I will post deep thoughts later. :)
>
> Keasy aol.com wrote:
> >
>
>
> Regards,
>
> hamdi ucar
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 17:14:45 2001
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X-Authentication-Warning: eskimo.com: billb owned process doing -bs
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
Reply-To: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: PLEASE READ, vortex-L rule change, comments?
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Why change the vortex-L rules?  I've been intending to do this for some
time, and recent comments reminded me.

First, the "playing field" has only been tilted against the long-time
scoffers, but not against sneering and derision itself.  I see this as an
ongoing problem because scoffing has a powerful dampening effect on
curiosity, enthusiasm, and creativity.  The purpose of vortex-L is for
discussion and testing of anomalies, and a derisive attack can stop this
instantly.  And the constant threat of derisive attacks can drastically
alter the atmosphere of a forum.  That's what makes sci.skeptic and
sci.physics.fusion what they are today.  It is with good reason that such
things are forbidden in brainstorming sessions, and I intend that vortex
remain a brainstorming session.  I don't want to ban differences of
opinion, but I'm no longer going to tolerate sneering. 


Below are the 2 rules I use on freenrg-L.  I created these long ago after
watching events on both lists.  These are clearer than the old vortex
rule#2 vortex (also below).


One possible addition:  NO ACCUSATIONS OF FRAUD WITHOUT EVIDENCE. In my
opinion, Taubs and Parks have immense suppressive effects which go far
beyond the power of arguments they make, and this is caused by their
constant suggestions that their opponents are not just wrong, but are also
lying scam artists.  To suppress or divert investigation of anomalies, a
powerful trick is to falsely accuse claimants of dishonesty.  This tactic
is so common that I intend to specifically make a rule against it. 



freenrg-L
 1. NO FLAMEWARS: use private email for impolite messages.  If your
    message is the least bit angry, hostile, or apt to be insulting, do
    not send it to vortex-L.  Instead, use private email to send it
    directly to your target.  VIOLATORS RISK IMMEDIATE UNSUBSCRIPTION.
    If someone insults you, contact the moderator.  See "Flamewars" below
    for details.

3. NO SNEERING.  Ridicule, derision, scoffing, and ad-hominem is banned.
   "Pathological Skepticism" is banned (see http://amasci.com/pathsk2.txt)
   If you feel the urge to ridicule something, stay silent or risk being
   unsubscribed.  Let's just say that freenrg-l is a big nasty nest of
   "true believers" (having maybe a bit of rational skepticism,) and let
   the scoffers leave in disgust.  The tone should be one of legitimate
   disagreements and respectful debate.

vortex-L
2. This is not the sci.physics.fusion newsgroup; ridicule, debunkery, and
   namecalling between believers and skeptics are forbidden.  The tone 
   should be one of legitimate disagreement and respectful debate. 
   Vortex-L is a big nasty nest of 'true believers' (hopefully having 
   some tendency to avoid self-deception,) and skeptics may as well leave 
   in disgust.  But if your mind is open and you wish to test "crazy"
   claims rather than ridiculing them or explaining them away, hop on 
   board!

((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                              SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                              http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits     science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA  206-789-0775      sciclub-list freenrg-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 17:23:53 2001
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:30:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Hypercom59 aol.com
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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	Dear Vo.,  And Bill Beatty,

	Bill,  you often have nice neat examples of well know effects
There are a series of effects wherein magnetic fields and electric
currents interact within a conductor to result in a thermal
change....things can get cool... or warm ...
	These effects can include but are not limited to the following and
combinations of the following:

	the Nernst effect
	the Ettinghausen effect, 
	the Peltier effect, 
	the Seebeck effect, 
	the first Righi-Leduc effect and 
	the first Ettinghausen-Nernst effect

	It is certainly possible when magnetics and electric
current and conductors are present, there being a motor or not, cooling
can obtain.


On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/12/01 1:50:40 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> 
> <GENERAL QUESTION FOR ALL ZPE AND-OR VACUUM ENERGY PRACTICE>
> 
> That's a great statement, however since nobody else has a working device that 
> exhibits ZPE tapping (that will speak about it), it's really going to be hard 
> to practice with it without one in hand.
> 
> <Will you please let us know:

>  a] What is getting cooler?
>  b] Or maybe what is meant by; 
> 
>     ".........Negative Entropy means it is getting cooler 
>         when power is supplied.    ......">
> 
> Yes, I would be happy to explain what gets cooler.
> One side effect of the device is motor function, except when voltage is 
> supplied to the system - "ALL attached wires get cooler [Lost Heat], 
> instantly."  Not only the electromagnetic drive coil - but all attached wires 
> and in one video document a coil that was not electrically attached to the 
> system lost heat too.  I cannot comment further about the separate coil event.
> 
> Dr. Peter Lindemann published "the free energy secrets of Cold Electricity" 
> and although I have not read his book or viewed the video, what I have is 
> possibly what he  is referring to.  I have talked to Dr. Lindemann and since 
> my patent has actually issued (somewhat to my surprise) I may be able contact 
> him without restriction.
> 
> <AND:  Given the common use of the terms;
>     1) Exothermic is the term used to refer to actions or
> reactions which become warmer
>     2) Endothermic is the term used to refer to actions or
> reactions which become cooler>
> 
> Do you agree that all non superconducting electric DC motors are exothermic?

	Conductors may exhibit resistive heating and heating from other
effect.... and conductors may also exhibit cooling from more than one
effect, see the top of the letter.  Please.

> 
> Since my device gets cooler when power is supplied, the only other term you 
> provide is "endothermic" - so if you have to call it that, its a free 
> country.  I prefer to say "system negative entropy" or "negative system 
> entropy."  Either label does not apply to currently available technology.
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 17:25:24 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Colin Quinney <crquin home.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: A basic Newtonian question
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	Dear Colin,

	What happened what you energized the coil?

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Colin Quinney wrote:

> Hamdi,
> 
> Perfect junk wire ball:
> 
> Take 100 feet of plastic-coated soft iron wire-  the type used in gardens to
> tie up roses, etc. Every 3 or 4 inches do a hair-pin turn and fold the wire
> abruptly back on itself. Continue this process until all 100 feet are used
> up.
> 
> Bunch tie the "coil" and set in epoxy.
> 
> The magnetic fields will cancel just like a Hooper coil, and any residual
> magnetism will be held inside the wire due to it's permeability.
> 
> Balance two of these "coils" on a platform.
> 
> Spin the platform, and commutate DC or AC power to only quadrants 1 & 2.
> 
> I have one of these coils now. I wish I had "wound" two of them.
> 
> Colin Quinney
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hamdi ucar" <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 6:10 PM
> Subject: Re: A basic Newtonian question
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > While in a deep thought on the subject, looking for a similarity between
> magnetism and gravity I realized this thought experiment: :)
> >
> > Prepare two ball formed of long thin coil wires where the wires are not
> wounded but squeezed randomly without any order, any direction, as a real
> junk. We ignore the effect of the leads or embed tiny battery inside the
> ball. Question is does these balls extract forces on each others when they
> are energized? More precisely what will be the average of forces between two
> balls when considering inevitable inhomogenites?
> >
> > If this question is not hard enough please apply AC then.
> >
> > I am also waiting your suggestions to make a perfect junk wire ball.
> >
> > I will post deep thoughts later. :)
> >
> > Keasy aol.com wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > hamdi ucar
> >
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 18:24:54 2001
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Sender: hoyt eskimo.com
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:37:57 -0700
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Hi,

Here's a paper that's one of my current favorites,
'cuz it demonstrates backward causality ( and there are
many).  It should be obvious
that if the cause<->effect relation is reversed
anything goes!

Most popular assumptions about the nature of physical
reality go out the window.

http://www.boundaryinstitute.org/articles/timereversed.pdf

Hoyt Stearns
Phoenix

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 18:36:20 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
Message-ID: <42.18feefb2.28a888c6 aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:35:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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In a message dated 8/12/01 7:23:17 PM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:
<the Nernst effect
    the Ettinghausen effect, 
    the Peltier effect, 
    the Seebeck effect, 
    the first Righi-Leduc effect and 
    the first Ettinghausen-Nernst effect>

Good, which one gets cooler as voltage is supplied - and don't forget to tell 
everyone that when one part of the above gets cooler - another part gets 
hotter in proportion whereby keeping within the laws of Thermal Dynamics.

That was a nice list, but not at all applicable to explain what is happening 
within my invention.

<   Conductors may exhibit resistive heating and heating from other
 effect.... and conductors may also exhibit cooling from more than one
 effect, see the top of the letter.  Please. >

Please show me the one that gets "ONLY" cooler. 

After what I went through with all the office actions and the electronic and 
physics staff at the United States Patent and Trademark Office - if one of 
your above possibilities were remotely possible - I would have it's patent 
listed as well.

So please tell me which of your above device only gets cooler, without 
producing a counterbalancing heat emission?

(BTW - Puthoff suggested it could be a Peltier effect, but that was 2 years 
ago, however it's not.)

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html

The resistance to new technology is truly proportional to it's value.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 18:58:10 2001
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Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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Actually, from my understanding, the Thompson effect can either absorb or
evolve heat exclusively.  This is a minor effect compared to the high Z
materials used in a Peltier device, but it actually can alter the
performance curve of a Peltier substantially.

Essentially, when a current flows through a conductor that already contains
a temperature gradient along it's length, heat is either absorbed or evolved
along the entirety of the conductor.  The thermodynamics depend on the
direction of current versus the polarity of the existing thermal gradient.

It is possible that the Thompson Effect might be at work in a variety of
commonplace devices, especially electrical machinery running under load.

Just my two cents worth.

NR


----- Original Message -----
From: <Hypercom59 aol.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614


> In a message dated 8/12/01 7:23:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
> herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> <the Nernst effect
>     the Ettinghausen effect,
>     the Peltier effect,
>     the Seebeck effect,
>     the first Righi-Leduc effect and
>     the first Ettinghausen-Nernst effect>
>
> Good, which one gets cooler as voltage is supplied - and don't forget to
tell
> everyone that when one part of the above gets cooler - another part gets
> hotter in proportion whereby keeping within the laws of Thermal Dynamics.
>
> That was a nice list, but not at all applicable to explain what is
happening
> within my invention.
>
> <   Conductors may exhibit resistive heating and heating from other
>  effect.... and conductors may also exhibit cooling from more than one
>  effect, see the top of the letter.  Please. >
>
> Please show me the one that gets "ONLY" cooler.
>
> After what I went through with all the office actions and the electronic
and
> physics staff at the United States Patent and Trademark Office - if one of
> your above possibilities were remotely possible - I would have it's patent
> listed as well.
>
> So please tell me which of your above device only gets cooler, without
> producing a counterbalancing heat emission?
>
> (BTW - Puthoff suggested it could be a Peltier effect, but that was 2
years
> ago, however it's not.)
>
> Best Regards,
> Chris Arnold
> http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html
>
> The resistance to new technology is truly proportional to it's value.
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 19:06:43 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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	Cooler:

	There are several methods... the simplest is when there 
there is a magnetic field that changes in time.  Is occurs as a cycle and
has been used for many years:

	a]	field is applied and the atomic and molecular action of
materials within the field are restrained...  
	b]	when the field is released the material begins to move in
its more random motion, as compared to the magnetically restrained prior
condition ... and this "sucks" heat from the surroundings.  In fact no
galvanic frank current has to flow in the material that gets cold.

	I think you are missing the point.  

	I am not doubting your device, I am trying to make sense of it.
If there seemed to be some clear way I could explain its operation, say,
to another person that might have need of the property of cooling, then we
may be able to find your funding.

	So many times inventors have met with resistance from so many 
people that when they hear a new question they presume it is adversarial.

	My questions are only to understand.   I am not against you, your
device , your thinking or anything about the whole affair.  
	I am simply curious.

	If I did not care... I would not ask.

			In good faith,

					John

On Sun, 12 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/12/01 7:23:17 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> <the Nernst effect
>     the Ettinghausen effect, 
>     the Peltier effect, 
>     the Seebeck effect, 
>     the first Righi-Leduc effect and 
>     the first Ettinghausen-Nernst effect>
> 
> Good, which one gets cooler as voltage is supplied - and don't forget to tell 
> everyone that when one part of the above gets cooler - another part gets 
> hotter in proportion whereby keeping within the laws of Thermal Dynamics.
> 
> That was a nice list, but not at all applicable to explain what is happening 
> within my invention.
> 
> <   Conductors may exhibit resistive heating and heating from other
>  effect.... and conductors may also exhibit cooling from more than one
>  effect, see the top of the letter.  Please. >
> 
> Please show me the one that gets "ONLY" cooler. 
> 
> After what I went through with all the office actions and the electronic and 
> physics staff at the United States Patent and Trademark Office - if one of 
> your above possibilities were remotely possible - I would have it's patent 
> listed as well.
> 
> So please tell me which of your above device only gets cooler, without 
> producing a counterbalancing heat emission?
> 
> (BTW - Puthoff suggested it could be a Peltier effect, but that was 2 years 
> ago, however it's not.)
> 
> Best Regards,
> Chris Arnold
> http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html
> 
> The resistance to new technology is truly proportional to it's value.
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 20:04:23 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: A basic Newtonian question
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 23:00:59 -0400
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It got hot  :-)

Horace may remember why I made that coil. In 1996 or 97, he predicted some
rather
strange effects, stranger I thought than Hooper suggested, and I was looking
to build a Hooper coil anyway but with higher resistance wire.. As you know
Hooper used copper wire, not iron. His folding-back coil was 8 inches high
and about 6 to 8 inches wide. I think Hooper used #14 or 16 gauge. My small
coil in comparison is only  #24 gauge, about 12 ozs.

I energized it with 120 volts AC, but I detected no weight change with a
crude mechanical balance scale, and it gets fairly hot fast.

Ideally this experiment required DC, a grounded shield on the coil, and
possibly a vibrating reed electroscope to look for anomalous electric fields
[the motional electric field] that must penetrate a grounded thick-iron
Faraday cage. If I ever come across a good but inexpensive electroscope I
will continue the experiment as originally planned..

Why did I want to use high resistance iron wire? For two reasons. First
because unlike copper, the permeability of the iron wire restricts any
non-cancelled magnetic field lines fairly close to the coil, and second-
when I analyzed Hooper's results, the claimed motional electric field
non-intuitively INCREASED when additional (dummy) resistances were added
into his [transmitting] circuit. Check the 'Gibson Report'. Ms. Gibson was
Hooper's associate, and she didn't publish those results until after his
death. .

Colin Q.


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Schnurer" <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: A basic Newtonian question


>
>
> Dear Colin,
>
> What happened what you energized the coil?
>
> On Sun, 12 Aug 2001, Colin Quinney wrote:
>
> > Hamdi,
> >
> > Perfect junk wire ball:
> >
> > Take 100 feet of plastic-coated soft iron wire-  the type used in
gardens to
> > tie up roses, etc. Every 3 or 4 inches do a hair-pin turn and fold the
wire
> > abruptly back on itself. Continue this process until all 100 feet are
used
> > up.
> >
> > Bunch tie the "coil" and set in epoxy.
> >
> > The magnetic fields will cancel just like a Hooper coil, and any
residual
> > magnetism will be held inside the wire due to it's permeability.
> >
> > Balance two of these "coils" on a platform.
> >
> > Spin the platform, and commutate DC or AC power to only quadrants 1 & 2.
> >
> > I have one of these coils now. I wish I had "wound" two of them.
> >
> > Colin Quinney
> >


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 12 21:11:00 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:09:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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In a message dated 8/12/01 9:59:06 PM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:

< So many times inventors have met with resistance from so many 
 people that when they hear a new question they presume it is adversarial. >

I never took anything you said as adversarial. 

I will get to the point.  Even though it gets cooler when it runs, the 
cooling is a unique effect of the system however this is not it's primary 
function. 

The plasma is extremely energetic and its drive means is more particle 
accelerator than a DC motor commutator.

Time will tell if it is all that I claim it to be - however for now it is 
simply a new technology.  One only has to look at the videos clips I have 
provided to verify if they have ever seen anything like it before.  It is 
really different, new and looking for R&D funding.

I now have a unique patent and I just happen to understand what the device is 
and I will just have to wait for it's fear factor to attenuate itself. 

I was told last week to be patient - it took the inventor of the "Master 
Blaster" squirt gun six years to get someone interested, now most stores 
carry them across the country. 

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold






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Subject: Re: Pravda Releases More Info On Sensational Energy Source Discovery
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----- Original Message -----
From: "hamdi ucar" <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Pravda Releases More Info On Sensational Energy Source
Discovery

[snip]
> from that page
> >>>
> ...... Sobolev offers to build the new electric power plants of new
generation on the ground of that. The sense is simple: conductors have to be
placed in the generating field. Academician added there were some
experiments made in that direction; the scientists received the current in
milliampere and now they work with amperes.
> <<<<
>
> Even milliamps are enough to proof a new phenomenon, isn't it?

Maybe they waited until they achieved larger output so that when others
researchers replicate, it could be easily reproducible?

> There would be no room for mistake if one have a magnetic charge on his
hand, IMO.
>
> BTW, there is a original news in russian at
http://pravda.ru/main/2001/07/26/30057.html

Here is another article:

Copyright 2001 Interfax News Agency
News Bulletin

July 26, 2001, Thursday

Russian scientists claim sensational discovery

  MOSCOW. July 26 (Interfax) A group of Russian scientists claim they
have experimentally discovered a new type of magnetic charge and so
tapped a new energy source.

The new knowledge will give humanity a chance to create low cost
technologies, Valerian Sobolev, director of the Volgograd Institute of
Material Science, Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, told a news
conference in Moscow on Thursday.

The experimental discovery of so-called process depletion has led to
numerous other significant discoveries.

"That[ depletion] process is similar to electrolysis, but its products
are materials and monolithic multi-element chemical compounds like
quartz glass," Sobolev said. These compounds are new states of
substances, and the quantitative composition of these substances cannot
be explained by known chemical laws, he said.

"The substance on the new modified state contains ordered structures
that emanate a magnetic current changing over time. These structures are
magnetic charges," Sobolev said.

One discovery is that "the magnetic charge belongs to the continuous
medium rather than a single particle," Sobolev said. The materials
containing a magnetic charge become a new energy source, he said. By
emanating a magnetic flux, they create electromotive force in
conductors, Sobolev said. They are sources of the so-called physical
current which, unlike chemical current, "does not require conventional
hydrocarbon or nuclear energy, solar power, wind power, and so on," he
said.

"The applied value of the claimed scientific discoveries cannot be
overestimated," speakers at the news conference said. They argued that
with a new energy source available that does not require conventional
fuels, "we will cease, to use Mendeleyev's expression, burning banknotes
for fuel." The use of gas and oil will reduce to a fraction of what it
is now, which will have a beneficial effect on the environment, the
researchers said.

This will also apply to power generation, the researchers said. "Dams
across great rivers can be dismantled in the coming decades, so rivers
that contribute so much to the ecological balance will at long last live
their natural lives," they said.

LOAD-DATE: July 27, 2001




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 01:41:52 2001
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Hi,

I think strategy of Sobolev on introducing its discovery to the world is understandable, if one consider reluctance or ignorance of science on such as discoveries, suppression efforts and aim to keep this technology inside Russia. Energy production capabi
lities are  emphasized most because, there are energy gap in Russia, energy is a vital requirement specially on cold climates and economy is weak. There would be also no threat from petroleum companies in russia against free energy. I think. 

Why people are mostly skeptical on alternate free or cheap energy source in US? 
Because conventional energy is abundant. Quality of life is good,  cheaper energy is only an option. But in Russia one should think twice or more to express his negative opinion. Blackout are common in Turkey a daily experience, and maybe more common in R
ussia. 

Ironically, decision to not share the discovery with rest of the world reduce the risk of suppression because it not pose an immediate threat to international forces around conventional energy.

So a public announcement should be theoretically effective to secure a discovery on alternate energy and may accelerate its introduction in Russia.

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 01:55:02 2001
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From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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>
><GENERAL QUESTION FOR ALL ZPE AND-OR VACUUM ENERGY PRACTICE>
>
>That's a great statement, however since nobody else has a working device that
>exhibits ZPE tapping (that will speak about it), it's really going to be hard
>to practice with it without one in hand.

Various researchers, Newman, Sweet, have been reporting a cooling 
effect for 25 years.

>
><Will you please let us know:
>  a] What is getting cooler?
>  b] Or maybe what is meant by;
>
>     ".........Negative Entropy means it is getting cooler
>         when power is supplied.    ......">
>
>Yes, I would be happy to explain what gets cooler.

That's very interesting.
>
>
>Since my device gets cooler when power is supplied, the only other term you
>provide is "endothermic" - so if you have to call it that, its a free
>country.  I prefer to say "system negative entropy" or "negative system
>entropy."  Either label does not apply to currently available technology.

I think your right, Chris, if you can produce an effect that sucks 
the heat out of a coil that's not even attached to your machine, you 
have increased the effect that other researchers have noted.

The question I have is what is this machine? is it a motor? Is it a 
fusion reactor? is it a refrigerator? Is it a nonhertzian wave 
generator, that sucks heat energy through an inductive coupling? Is 
it an energy generator? The reason I'm posing these questions is you 
want a capital source to fund you. Well, of what practical use is 
this machine? I work in venture capital, and I write executive 
summaries all the time. If you want capital the first thing you have 
to come up with is a practical use for the technology.

By the way, Sparky Sweet reported that his cold electricity pulled 
the life energy out of him. This effect that you've developed sounds 
like the same phenomena to me. I'm more worried about that than I am 
about the fast neutrons. Neutrons are well understood, cold 
electricity, OTOH, nobody I know of understands it.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 03:53:04 2001
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From: ConexTom aol.com
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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:52:22 EDT
Subject: Equatons of magnetic monopoles in atomic and molecular bonds to generate energy!
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Equatons of magnetic monopoles in atomic and molecular bonds to generate
energy!

>From the text Advanced Electromagnetism edited by Terenece
W. Barrett and Dale M. Grimes, World Scientific, 1995, on
page 108, I found the transformation equations based of off
maxwellian equations=A0 for creating hypothetical magnetic
monopoles as follows:

E =3D E'cos y + H' sin y ; H =3D -E' sin y + H ' cosy y
p =3D p' cos y + u ' sin y;=A0 u =3D-p'sin y +u'cos y
J =3DJ'cos y +K'sin y; K =3D-J' sin y + K'cos y

Derived from the Maxwell equations:

Curl H - 1/c dE/dt =3D 4pie/c J;
div E =3D 4 pie p ; div H =3D 4 pie u.

where E =3D the electric field, J =3D the electrical current, H =3D the
magnetic field, and K the magnetic current.=20

"By suitably choosing the angle y, one may arbitrarily eliminate
magnetic or electric quantities.=A0 But this is only true if J and K
are collinear. Pg 108 Advanced Electromagnetism"

I then read the article Pravda Releases More Info on
Sensational Energy Source located at
www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nrussen.htm. which stated
that Russian scientists and Valerian Sobolev gave the details the
chemistry used to design new materials based on a "substance
which may radiate the time-changing magnetic flux" developing
an electrochemical process which depletes oxide metals by
removing electrons from the orbits to create magnetic
monopoles.=20

I also then read an article at http://www.aetherometry.com/
entitled Experimental Aetherometry Vol 1 AS2-01; and on pg.
13 and 14, the article gives the equations to calculate the
characteristic gravitational frequency of atoms based off of their
atomic numbers. I believe that one may analyze each element in
the periodic table based on its characteristic gravitational
frequency to obtain subatomic quark bonds that may be used to
calculate new atomic and molecular energy bonds to generate
new atomic and molecular substance and a new periodic table. I
heard from occult theories that there are many secret elements
which the standard periodic table does not show or predict. It
may be possible then to change the electrical and magnetic
bonds of an atom or molecule to create a magnetic monopole in
the molecule to collect magnetic energy from magnetic charges
which may be similar to quarks or gravitons or telsa radiant
energy waves from the environment to generate energy. One
may also construct molecules with low frequency-high
frequency bonds, by combining different elements of low
frequencies to elements of high frequencies to make bonds of
ratios similar to musical ratios which may generate energy by
reorienting the bond angles of the helical torodial
electromagnetic tubules. There is also an article Helicity and
Electromagnetic Field Topology which allows one to calculate
the mathematical geometry of helical torodial electromagnetic
tubules in terms of knot theory by means of bond angles in 3
dimensions in the above quoted book advanced
electromagnetism.=20


Respectfully,

Thomas Clark
www.rhfweb.com\personal
tom rhfweb.com


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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR=3D"#0f0f0f" SIZE=3D2>Equaton=
s of magnetic monopoles in atomic and molecular bonds to generate
<BR>energy!
<BR>
<BR>From the text Advanced Electromagnetism edited by Terenece
<BR>W. Barrett and Dale M. Grimes, World Scientific, 1995, on
<BR>page 108, I found the transformation equations based of off
<BR>maxwellian equations=A0 for creating hypothetical magnetic
<BR>monopoles as follows:
<BR>
<BR>E =3D E'cos y + H' sin y ; H =3D -E' sin y + H ' cosy y
<BR>p =3D p' cos y + u ' sin y;=A0 u =3D-p'sin y +u'cos y
<BR>J =3DJ'cos y +K'sin y; K =3D-J' sin y + K'cos y
<BR>
<BR>Derived from the Maxwell equations:
<BR>
<BR>Curl H - 1/c dE/dt =3D 4pie/c J;
<BR>div E =3D 4 pie p ; div H =3D 4 pie u.
<BR>
<BR>where E =3D the electric field, J =3D the electrical current, H =3D the
<BR>magnetic field, and K the magnetic current.=20
<BR>
<BR>"By suitably choosing the angle y, one may arbitrarily eliminate
<BR>magnetic or electric quantities.=A0 But this is only true if J and K
<BR>are collinear. Pg 108 Advanced Electromagnetism"
<BR>
<BR>I then read the article Pravda Releases More Info on
<BR>Sensational Energy Source located at
<BR>www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nrussen.htm. which stated
<BR>that Russian scientists and Valerian Sobolev gave the details the
<BR>chemistry used to design new materials based on a "substance
<BR>which may radiate the time-changing magnetic flux" developing
<BR>an electrochemical process which depletes oxide metals by
<BR>removing electrons from the orbits to create magnetic
<BR>monopoles.=20
<BR>
<BR>I also then read an article at http://www.aetherometry.com/
<BR>entitled Experimental Aetherometry Vol 1 AS2-01; and on pg.
<BR>13 and 14, the article gives the equations to calculate the
<BR>characteristic gravitational frequency of atoms based off of their
<BR>atomic numbers. I believe that one may analyze each element in
<BR>the periodic table based on its characteristic gravitational
<BR>frequency to obtain subatomic quark bonds that may be used to
<BR>calculate new atomic and molecular energy bonds to generate
<BR>new atomic and molecular substance and a new periodic table. I
<BR>heard from occult theories that there are many secret elements
<BR>which the standard periodic table does not show or predict. It
<BR>may be possible then to change the electrical and magnetic
<BR>bonds of an atom or molecule to create a magnetic monopole in
<BR>the molecule to collect magnetic energy from magnetic charges
<BR>which may be similar to quarks or gravitons or telsa radiant
<BR>energy waves from the environment to generate energy. One
<BR>may also construct molecules with low frequency-high
<BR>frequency bonds, by combining different elements of low
<BR>frequencies to elements of high frequencies to make bonds of
<BR>ratios similar to musical ratios which may generate energy by
<BR>reorienting the bond angles of the helical torodial
<BR>electromagnetic tubules. There is also an article Helicity and
<BR>Electromagnetic Field Topology which allows one to calculate
<BR>the mathematical geometry of helical torodial electromagnetic
<BR>tubules in terms of knot theory by means of bond angles in 3
<BR>dimensions in the above quoted book advanced
<BR>electromagnetism.=20
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Respectfully,
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>www.rhfweb.com\personal
<BR>tom rhfweb.com
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_e2.19073896.28a90b66_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 06:25:35 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
Subject: Re: crude test of Morton effect
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>I tried making a "funnel" using a 5" square of acrylic with a 3" glass
>tube mounted in the center.  I placed this against the VDG sphere.  Didn't

I was thinking more of using a glass funnel with a long stem instead of
a glass tube, and just placing the mouth of the funnel near the VDG sphere,
not in contact with it.  the idea would be to make the discharge path thru
the funnel to the target shorter than the discharge path going around the mouth
of the funnel...


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 06:44:48 2001
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To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Hal Fox  Address bounce......
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	Does anyone have a good address for Hal?

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 07:29:26 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:28:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Hal Fox  Address bounce......
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<Does anyone have a good address for Hal?>

I will send Hal's address when I get to my store - I have his phone number 
somewhere too.
Chris

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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Subject: Re: Hal Fox  Address bounce......
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halfox qwest.net

Hello Hal.... 

This was the email for Hal Fox on 6/8/01. He stated he was getting 
$20,000,000 in R&D funding - however if he did get the money, I would not 
blame him a bit for changing his email and heading for cover. Congratulations 
on your funding.

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 09:09:58 2001
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From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:16:53 -0700
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On Monday 13 August 2001 01:39, hamdi ucar wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think strategy of Sobolev on introducing its discovery to 
the world is understandable, if one consider reluctance or 
ignorance of science on such as discoveries, suppression efforts 
and aim to keep this technology inside Russia. Energy production 
capabilities are  emphasized most because, there are energy gap 
in Russia, energy is a vital requirement specially on cold 
climates and economy is weak. There would be also no threat from 
petroleum companies in russia against free energy. I think. 
> 
> Why people are mostly skeptical on alternate free or cheap 
energy source in US? 
> Because conventional energy is abundant. Quality of life is 
good,  cheaper energy is only an option. But in Russia one 
should think twice or more to express his negative opinion. 
Blackout are common in Turkey a daily experience, and maybe more 
common in Russia. 
> 
> Ironically, decision to not share the discovery with rest of 
the world reduce the risk of suppression because it not pose an 
immediate threat to international forces around conventional 
energy.
> 
> So a public announcement should be theoretically effective to 
secure a discovery on alternate energy and may accelerate its 
introduction in Russia.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> hamdi ucar


Hamdi,
	I believe one of Nostradamous's prophecies over
400 years ago was that Russia would be the hope of the
world.  With this series of discoveries, if true, that time is at
hand at last!!  Do you realize that this will make space travel
practical and cheap, although our ships will now start to look
like UFO's instead of rockets?
	However, thinking ahead of the box, our new application
of this technology to space travel, by whichever humans, could
raise questions of its own.  If we are not alone in the 
universe, and I am fairly sure only an egotistical religious 
fanatic would be a true befiever in this, then our new 
independance from our world/cradle will NOT go unnoticed.
We are a warlike and vicious and hateful species, and may
rightfully be considered by some foreigners a threat.  Never
mind that Russia will be doing it 'and they are foreigners', so 
the story goes.  After this we will have to redefine what we
consider a foreigner.  We are all 'human' !;  and we will be
seen and judged so when we go out from our Earth home
to truly foreign lands.  We will have to realize that every human
that goes out from here will eventually be judged and appraised
by somebody.  Our observers who according to many have
been around for many years, may just pick a time in the not
too distant future after we demonstrate that we can build these
craft to contact us in some unignorable and unwhitewashable
way.  Just like the so called 'Star Trek' prime directive, once 
we do this we will go 'Through the Looking Glass' and will now
have to make, as a planetary society group consisting of all
humans, a treaty on how we will live with our foreign neighbors.

Standing Bear


ps...........many of these neighbors will not allow themselves to
be displaced as the Native Americans did.

pps..........humans will probably have to REALLY keep this
treaty!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 10:23:20 2001
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Craig Haynie wrote:

>Is CETI Still Around? If so, does anyone have their website?

Probably not. Jim Reding, who was the president and the Jim 
Patterson's  granddaughter's husband, died suddenly last month. The company 
ran out of money some time ago. I doubt it will continue under these 
circumstances.

- Jed

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Edmund Storms wrote:

> > Having failed to elicit a response from my last posting, I'm testing
> > to see if any of you Vortexians are awake. Is E=MC2 valid or not?
>
>Yes, it is valid.  However, this fact does not support Einstein's model.
>Several different models can be used to arrive at this relationship.

I think it would be more correct to say this fact alone does not prove that 
Einstein's model is correct and competing models are wrong, because several 
competing models also predict this relationship. Mass-energy equivalence 
certainly does bolster Einstein's model.

As far as I know, there has been no direct experimental test of mass-energy 
equivalence. That is, no one has ever measured the mass loss. Philip 
Morrison tried to measure it with a sample of uranium oxide, but the heat 
from the reaction and other noise interfered with the weight scale. There 
is loads of indirect evidence.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 12:42:43 2001
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Hi Standing Bear,

I know the humanity is not on the right way, and never had be.
This is because the rule dictate that the evil mind nations / communities eliminate  good ones, who lives peacefully and with harmony with nature.

Now money rules everything on everyplace in the world. I ask what differs the spread of humankind on Earth from an viral epidemic (outbreak) or from a rat invasion of an island. I think the difference is very slim. The difference should be that rats and v
iruses have no self regulation and they collapse after consuming all available resources. They have no conscience to respect and give value to life. Only their life or existence of their genetic material is important for them. Eventually they are stopped 
by laws of the nature. Unfortunately humans aim the same thing: Spread their genetic material to the world and to the universe without respect to other forms of life. Only diversion and evolution (culturally and biologically) justify spread of an species.
 Actually humanity is in extensive work to to destroy both diversity in nature and also in their cultures. Worst, the money try to remove the concept of respect and rights from human mind. (exept respect to money) I think this is tragic.

Even there no effort to constitute a foundation of an universal rights system which cover every living entity. Because it is more easier and profitable that only humans has rights. I think this would be the main difference between human dominance on earth
 and an epidemic. I think it is too late. Destruction of nature is so intensive so conservation efforts would not make much difference.

On the other hand extraterrestrial encounters are increasing. Many people are witnessing them not only their vehicles but the beings themselves by the first hand.
Existence of superior beings progressively increase the pressure on people and help them to remember they an not the king of the nature. Once I thought what the meaning of the life on the universe if life be created, evolves and fade in various distance p
laces and in different time WITHOUT being in touch with others like individual stars. Such an existence of life have no importance overall in the infinity (or bigness) of the universe I concluded. So meaning of life depends its (cosmological) integrity on
 the universe. 

It appears that every people getting in to the space feel these things. It is not hard. In space you are isolated. You look the sphere of the Earth. it is also isolated. There is an other huge world here. bla bla bla.

So what will be happen?  We are not civilized. We are using wild life rules. (In turkish "wood rule"). So the wild life rules will soon rule us in the hard way.

Recently at province Usak in Turkey an extraterritorial being is spotted by farm field workers (about 10) and they stoned (throwing stones) the being not because they afraid and try to defend them selves but because THEY CAN, I think. For the same reason 
it is common in our streets to see a 2-4 year old child kick a cat, more evolved one throw stone, and later hit them with their cars.


Standing Bear wrote:
> 
>         I believe one of Nostradamous's prophecies over
> 400 years ago was that Russia would be the hope of the
> world.  With this series of discoveries, if true, that time is at
> hand at last!!  Do you realize that this will make space travel
> practical and cheap, although our ships will now start to look
> like UFO's instead of rockets?
>         However, thinking ahead of the box, our new application
> of this technology to space travel, by whichever humans, could
> raise questions of its own.  If we are not alone in the
> universe, and I am fairly sure only an egotistical religious
> fanatic would be a true befiever in this, then our new
> independance from our world/cradle will NOT go unnoticed.
> We are a warlike and vicious and hateful species, and may
> rightfully be considered by some foreigners a threat.  Never
> mind that Russia will be doing it 'and they are foreigners', so
> the story goes.  After this we will have to redefine what we
> consider a foreigner.  We are all 'human' !;  and we will be
> seen and judged so when we go out from our Earth home
> to truly foreign lands.  We will have to realize that every human
> that goes out from here will eventually be judged and appraised
> by somebody.  Our observers who according to many have
> been around for many years, may just pick a time in the not
> too distant future after we demonstrate that we can build these
> craft to contact us in some unignorable and unwhitewashable
> way.  Just like the so called 'Star Trek' prime directive, once
> we do this we will go 'Through the Looking Glass' and will now
> have to make, as a planetary society group consisting of all
> humans, a treaty on how we will live with our foreign neighbors.
> 
> Standing Bear
> 
> ps...........many of these neighbors will not allow themselves to
> be displaced as the Native Americans did.
> 
> pps..........humans will probably have to REALLY keep this
> treaty!

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 13:22:48 2001
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Jed, are you sure the energy of gamma photon involved on electron pair creation / annihilation not give an opportunity for a precise measurement? Although it is hard to weight an electron, its mass can be easily measured by diverging it by a magnetic fiel
d.

hamdi ucar


Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 

> 
> As far as I know, there has been no direct experimental test of mass-energy
> equivalence. That is, no one has ever measured the mass loss. Philip
> Morrison tried to measure it with a sample of uranium oxide, but the heat
> from the reaction and other noise interfered with the weight scale. There
> is loads of indirect evidence.
> 
> - Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 15:19:24 2001
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>Craig Haynie wrote:
>
>>Is CETI Still Around? If so, does anyone have their website?

Correction to what Jed wrote below.
>
>Probably not. Jim Reding, who was the president and the Jim 
>Patterson's  granddaughter's husband, died suddenly last month. 

Jim Reding was Dr. James Patterson's grandson -- Patterson's daughter's 
son.

>The company 
>ran out of money some time ago. I doubt it will continue under these 
>circumstances.

Dr. Patterson and his associates are people of significant wealth and 
have every intention of continuing excess heat work.   Whether they can 
get back in in as big a way as before remains to be seen. 

The company still exists with its patent position intact. Furthermore, 
Dr. Patterson continues to work on new methods of excess heat generation 
using thin films, but not necessarily with beads.
>
>- Jed

- Gene Mallove
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 15:38:20 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Nature Science Update Highlights: 13 August 2001
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:40:00 -0400
From: "Nature Science Update" <NatureScienceUpdateAlert us.nature.com>
Reply-To: Customer Service <tocreplies appserver5.nature.com>
To: "Nature Science Update" <NatureScienceUpdateAlert us.nature.com>

NATURE SCIENCE UPDATE WEEKLY HIGHLIGHTS

Now available at http://www.nature.com/nsu/

Discover the most fascinating things to happen in science this week:
a collection of authoritative, informative and entertaining
science news stories from Nature News Service
Updated every day at midnight GMT and available for free!

Nature Science Update Highlights: 13 August 2001
(c) Copyright Nature News Service 2001

=====================================================================
 
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- December 3 & 4, 2001      

Nature Biotechnology has brought together leading researchers from 
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http://www.nature.com/nsu/010816/010816-4.html
 
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Fight forest fire's fringes first, suggests new model.
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SOLAR POWER SURGE
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PHYSICISTS PLAY THE NANOPIPE
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Migrating birds should beware of high-flying bats. 
http://www.nature.com/nsu/010809/010809-5.html  

=====================================================================
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 19:38:25 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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Please explain the following and disclose the quoted device, in particular 
the changing magnetic field that causes heat to disappear. That one really 
does interest me.

In a message dated 8/12/01 9:59:06 PM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:

<   There are several methods... the simplest is when there is a magnetic 
field that changes in time.  Is occurs as a cycle and
 has been used for many years:
 
    a]  field is applied and the atomic and molecular action of
 materials within the field are restrained...  
    b]  when the field is released the material begins to move in
 its more random motion, as compared to the magnetically restrained prior
 condition ... and this "sucks" heat from the surroundings.  In fact no
 galvanic frank current has to flow in the material that gets cold. >

Please be specific as to which device not listed under "Thermocouple" will 
produce only a heat loss.

Thank you.
Best Regards,
Chris Arnold

PS: I did not post my patent issue information to invoke another round of 
debate - there is nothing further for me to debate and I have no time to 
waste on attempting to prove to vortex (or anyone else) what I have already 
proven to the patent office.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 19:50:45 2001
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	Dear Chris,

	As I said before, I did not ask question because I though I did
not believe, I asked questions to understand.  I did not ask questions as
an adversary, I asked questions to learn.
	It seems many may have been adversarial.  I am only asking in good
faith and spirit.

	The most complete literature will probably be found under magnetic
cooling.

	I will try to find a nice www site.

	This is a process, as opposed to a "device" per se.

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> Please explain the following and disclose the quoted device, in particular 
> the changing magnetic field that causes heat to disappear. That one really 
> does interest me.
> 
> In a message dated 8/12/01 9:59:06 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> 
> <   There are several methods... the simplest is when there is a magnetic 
> field that changes in time.  Is occurs as a cycle and
>  has been used for many years:
>  
>     a]  field is applied and the atomic and molecular action of
>  materials within the field are restrained...  
>     b]  when the field is released the material begins to move in
>  its more random motion, as compared to the magnetically restrained prior
>  condition ... and this "sucks" heat from the surroundings.  In fact no
>  galvanic frank current has to flow in the material that gets cold. >
> 
> Please be specific as to which device not listed under "Thermocouple" will 
> produce only a heat loss.
> 
> Thank you.
> Best Regards,
> Chris Arnold
> 
> PS: I did not post my patent issue information to invoke another round of 
> debate - there is nothing further for me to debate and I have no time to 
> waste on attempting to prove to vortex (or anyone else) what I have already 
> proven to the patent office.
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 13 21:02:24 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:01:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Getting Cooler  Negative Entropy Patent Issues US 6,271,614
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John,

You stated,


I believe you, however I asked for clarification on how magnetics can cause 
cooling so I can better understand it - and possibly explain better what is 
happening in my system as well.

I have taken all you have said in the spirit it was presented and never 
thought you were attempting to give me a hard time over it.

Best Regards,
Chris

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August 14, 2001

'Gene,

Thanks to Jed and you for responding about CETI. If you have contacts with
Dr. Patterson, please pass on my sincere regrets for Jim Redding's passing.
I witnessed CETI team's bounding optimism at the ICCF-5 and the Power-Gen
95.
You did very slightly mention  CETI's non-bead work some years ago on your
visit to Florida, I believe. So your second mention now confirms this.
I did not think beads were a good idea, given that the metal coating expands
so much, as known since Graham's time,  and can/did crack away from the
beads on adsorbing hydrogen (or deuterium)

-AK-

"Eugene F. Mallove" wrote:

> >Craig Haynie wrote:
> >
> >>Is CETI Still Around? If so, does anyone have their website?
>
> Correction to what Jed wrote below.
> >
> >Probably not. Jim Reding, who was the president and the Jim
> >Patterson's  granddaughter's husband, died suddenly last month.
>
> Jim Reding was Dr. James Patterson's grandson -- Patterson's daughter's
> son.
>
> >The company
> >ran out of money some time ago. I doubt it will continue under these
> >circumstances.
>
> Dr. Patterson and his associates are people of significant wealth and
> have every intention of continuing excess heat work.   Whether they can
> get back in in as big a way as before remains to be seen.
>
> The company still exists with its patent position intact. Furthermore,
> Dr. Patterson continues to work on new methods of excess heat generation
> using thin films, but not necessarily with beads.


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 07:23:58 2001
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hamdi ucar wrote:

>Jed, are you sure the energy of gamma photon involved on electron pair 
>creation / annihilation not give an opportunity for a precise measurement? 
>Although it is hard to weight an electron, its mass can be easily measured 
>by diverging it by a magnetic field.

Morrison did not mention this. I suppose he had in mind conventional, 
old-fashioned ways to measure mass (weight) directly, and he would classify 
this as an indirect way to measure mass. I expect many experiments prove 
mass-energy equivalence. Time dilation and other aspects of special 
relativity have been proven repeatedly, and they are a normal part of 
engineering for things like the GPS satellites and particle accelerators.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 09:36:31 2001
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From: Bart Simon <simonb post.queensu.ca>
Subject: Cf and deuterium concentration
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Hi all,

Please excuse this naive question I am a sociologist who has been following
the CF case for many years but I continue to struggle with the technical
nuances.

I am hoping someone (maybe Ed, Jed or Mitch) will be able to save me a trip
into my archive of CF papers (or a search through the Britz or Fox
bibliography). Does anyone remember any experiments that attempt to
correlate one or more CF effects with deuterium concentration in the
electrolyte?

I ask this mostly to see if I can discount this as a relevant issue to
producing CF - if CF effects are loading dependant then perhaps it doesn't
matter how much deuterium is originally in the electrolyte (unless more
deuterium means faster loading times)... I guess I am wondering if there is
a minimum accepted concentration which will produce effects and whether the
degree of those effects change with changes in deuterium concentration?

The motivation for my question is my current concern with understanding and
characterizing 
the degree of consensus around protocol and procedure with respect to "wet"
electrolysis 
systems at least. To this end I have found that Ed Storm's writing has been
very helpful but 
the trick is in gauging a kind of common denomenator with respect to what
actually matters 
for producing the effect.

I also wonder if my question has any relevance for CF in light water. I
have been wondering of late, what has been the fate of the light water CF
results of 1992-94.  The few experiments I have been involved with were
light water experiments and they certainly seemed interesting.

cheers,
Bart Simon (simonb alcor.concordia.ca)
Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology
Concordia University, Montreal


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 09:52:59 2001
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Cf and deuterium concentration
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Bart Simon wrote:

>bibliography). Does anyone remember any experiments that attempt to
>correlate one or more CF effects with deuterium concentration in the
>electrolyte?

Does this mean, the purity of the heavy water, that is, how much light 
water contamination it has? Ed Storms has done some work on this recently. 
Most people have used the highest purity D2O they can get, and done 
everything they can to ensure it stays pure. This is difficult, 
because  heavy water attracts ordinary water from the air.

I imagine the situation is complicated because when heavy water is 
contaminated with light water, it is simultaneously contaminated with 
carbon and many other poisons likely to degrade performance. What we need 
is a rigorous set of tests with measured amounts of hydrogen mixed with 
otherwise pure deuterium. I do not recall any such tests, offhand.

Mizuno and Takahashi are about to publish a paper in JJAP showing that when 
you load a cathode with pure deuterium and then switch to loading with 
ordinary water, about half the time it produces a large burst of neutrons 
(10E5 ~ 10E6). Obviously, deuterium and hydrogen react differently, and 
deuterium is more likely to produce heat. This is the most effective and 
reproducible method of generating neutrons with CF yet discovered, as far 
as I know. It must have implications for theory, although I have no idea 
what they might be.

Beyond that, I don't know much about this subject.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 10:17:18 2001
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Subject: Re: Cf and deuterium concentration
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At 12:34 PM 8/14/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Please excuse this naive question I am a sociologist who has been following
>the CF case for many years but I continue to struggle with the technical
>nuances.
>
>I am hoping someone (maybe Ed, Jed or Mitch) will be able to save me a trip
>into my archive of CF papers (or a search through the Britz or Fox
>bibliography). Does anyone remember any experiments that attempt to
>correlate one or more CF effects with deuterium concentration in the
>electrolyte?
>
>I ask this mostly to see if I can discount this as a relevant issue to
>producing CF - if CF effects are loading dependant then perhaps it doesn't
>matter how much deuterium is originally in the electrolyte (unless more
>deuterium means faster loading times)... I guess I am wondering if there is
>a minimum accepted concentration which will produce effects and whether the
>degree of those effects change with changes in deuterium concentration?
>
>The motivation for my question is my current concern with understanding and
>characterizing
>the degree of consensus around protocol and procedure with respect to "wet"
>electrolysis
>systems at least. To this end I have found that Ed Storm's writing has been
>very helpful but
>the trick is in gauging a kind of common denomenator with respect to what
>actually matters
>for producing the effect.
>
>I also wonder if my question has any relevance for CF in light water. I
>have been wondering of late, what has been the fate of the light water CF
>results of 1992-94.  The few experiments I have been involved with were
>light water experiments and they certainly seemed interesting.
>
>cheers,
>Bart Simon (simonb alcor.concordia.ca)
>Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology
>Concordia University, Montreal



   It is a very important matter.  I have collected data for years on both
Pd and Ni systems.  Some of this was recently sent to Fusion Technology
as a manuscript, but the new Editor refused peer-review, and sent back the 
paper
purporting that it was of no interest to the fusion community.

   It is nice to see that the Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology has more
brains than the current editor of Fusion Technology (now Fusion Science and 
Technology).

    If you, or anyone else, wants a copy of the rejection letter refusing
peer review by the editor, as evidence for your sociologic
investigation into the coverup of cold fusion, send me email.

   Best wishes.

   Dr. Mitchell Swartz




From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 10:38:54 2001
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> Charlie Ford wrote on Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:43:22:
> 
> At 12:03 PM 8/10/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > >On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:51:36, David Rosignoli wrote:
> > >Based on his experiments, Charles Yost seems to think (from what I
> > >gather from his articles - I haven't spoken to him) that the effect - if
> > >present - is due to an electrostatic longitudinal wave of some sort.
> > >That would not account for a force through multiple grounded metal
> > >shields, as in the case of the P&B article.
> >
> >         I was studying one of Jefimenko's books the
> >other day ("Causality, Gravitation and ???" [I forget
> >the exact title]), where he derives what he feels are
> >the correct causal relationships between sources and
> >field effects.  I noticed that the derived equations
> >seem to show that if one sets up a situation where
> >changing charge distributions predominate rather than
> >changing currents, that a purely electric field
> >longitudinal wave can be produced, which falls
> >off as only 1/r.  The magnitude of the E-field
> >is proportional to the time derivative of the
> >charge distribution configuration, i.e., how
> >fast the configuration changes.
> >                 Jim
> 
> Jim:  You are sure that is 1/r ?  Seems that 1/r^2 is proper for three 
> dimensional relationships  Wether the radiating filed is electrical , 
> magnetic, or spray paint does not matter.
>		Charlie Ford
> 

Hi Charlie,
	Yup, 1/r is correct.  That's what struck me
about that portion of the formula for the E vector.  
It is a integral over the charge distribution volume: 

	Ev = (M/c) Int[(rhat/r)(d[rho]/dt)dv] + ...(current-based term)

where 'Ev' is the electric vector, 'rho' is the charge 
distribution, 'r' being the distance from the observer, 
'rhat' being the unit vector towards the observer.  
'M' is a constant.  The formula is a bit trickier, 
since various parts are to be evaluated with retarded
coordinates.  Though suppressed by a factor of 'c', 
nevertheless, a sharply changing charge distribution 
is seen to create a radial electric field 'wave' of 
surprising strength per distance.  So, it's not the 
normal E-M wave, but instead a radial (longitudinal)
E-field pulse.  Given 1/r, it will be felt at great
distance.
	Per your comment, I suppose it's possible 
Jefimenko has a typo in the formula, as I did not work 
through the whole derivation.
				Jim

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Jim:

This distribution would cause the total energy of a pulse to increase as it 
radiates in all three dimensions.  (or maybe it is not energy ??)  or maybe 
I need a look at the derivation.  I will have to look back to the beginning 
of this thread.  It was the 1/r that got me following it so I sort of 
popped in the middle of things.



At 01:38 PM 8/14/01 -0400, you wrote:

> > Charlie Ford wrote on Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:43:22:
> >
> > At 12:03 PM 8/10/01 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:51:36, David Rosignoli wrote:
> > > >Based on his experiments, Charles Yost seems to think (from what I
> > > >gather from his articles - I haven't spoken to him) that the effect - if
> > > >present - is due to an electrostatic longitudinal wave of some sort.
> > > >That would not account for a force through multiple grounded metal
> > > >shields, as in the case of the P&B article.
> > >
> > >         I was studying one of Jefimenko's books the
> > >other day ("Causality, Gravitation and ???" [I forget
> > >the exact title]), where he derives what he feels are
> > >the correct causal relationships between sources and
> > >field effects.  I noticed that the derived equations
> > >seem to show that if one sets up a situation where
> > >changing charge distributions predominate rather than
> > >changing currents, that a purely electric field
> > >longitudinal wave can be produced, which falls
> > >off as only 1/r.  The magnitude of the E-field
> > >is proportional to the time derivative of the
> > >charge distribution configuration, i.e., how
> > >fast the configuration changes.
> > >                 Jim
> >
> > Jim:  You are sure that is 1/r ?  Seems that 1/r^2 is proper for three
> > dimensional relationships  Wether the radiating filed is electrical ,
> > magnetic, or spray paint does not matter.
> >               Charlie Ford
> >
>
>Hi Charlie,
>         Yup, 1/r is correct.  That's what struck me
>about that portion of the formula for the E vector.
>It is a integral over the charge distribution volume:
>
>         Ev = (M/c) Int[(rhat/r)(d[rho]/dt)dv] + ...(current-based term)
>
>where 'Ev' is the electric vector, 'rho' is the charge
>distribution, 'r' being the distance from the observer,
>'rhat' being the unit vector towards the observer.
>'M' is a constant.  The formula is a bit trickier,
>since various parts are to be evaluated with retarded
>coordinates.  Though suppressed by a factor of 'c',
>nevertheless, a sharply changing charge distribution
>is seen to create a radial electric field 'wave' of
>surprising strength per distance.  So, it's not the
>normal E-M wave, but instead a radial (longitudinal)
>E-field pulse.  Given 1/r, it will be felt at great
>distance.
>         Per your comment, I suppose it's possible
>Jefimenko has a typo in the formula, as I did not work
>through the whole derivation.
>                                 Jim

Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 13:17:59 2001
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Dear Bart,
Thanks for the interest.  Yes, several studies have shown than the presence of
too much H2O in D2O stops the effect.  In addition to the two references shown
below, I have also explored the effect and found the same behavior as seen
previously.  Experience has shown that H and D produce different nuclear
reactions and require different environments.  Hydrogen appears to react only
within nickel hydride while deuterium reacts within a number of other metal
hydrides, but not nickel.

Because deuterium produces a fusion reaction, the rate will depend on the
concentration squared, at least.  If the reaction involves more than two
nuclei, as Takahashi suggests, then the rate is proportional to an even higher
power.  In an electrolytic cell, the concentration of hydrogen in the
electrolyte is magnified in the Pd metal because H is more soluble than is D
under the same conditions.  As a result, 1% H in the D2O would produce as much
as 10% H in the PdD.  These two factors combine to make the reaction very
sensitive to the hydrogen concentration of the electrolyte.

I hope this answers your question.

By the way, my most recent review was just rejected by Review of Modern
Physics (George Bertsch, ed.) with the comment "Cold Fusion is a classic
example of pathological science. I will certainly not publish articles
supporting its disproven claims."  This comment was made without even a
willingness to read the review.

Regards,
Ed

Huang, N., "Effect of Light Water Additions on Excess Heat Generation of
Palladium Deuterium System", 8th World Hydrogen Energy Conf., July 22-27,
1990, page 45.

Belzner, A., Bischler, U., Crouch-Baker, S., Guer, T. M., Lucier, G.,
Schreiber, M. and Huggins, R. A. "Two fast mixed-conductor systems: deuterium
and hydrogen in palladium - thermal measurements and experimental
considerations", J. Fusion Energy 9 (1990) 219.


Bart Simon wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Please excuse this naive question I am a sociologist who has been following
> the CF case for many years but I continue to struggle with the technical
> nuances.
>
> I am hoping someone (maybe Ed, Jed or Mitch) will be able to save me a trip
> into my archive of CF papers (or a search through the Britz or Fox
> bibliography). Does anyone remember any experiments that attempt to
> correlate one or more CF effects with deuterium concentration in the
> electrolyte?
>
> I ask this mostly to see if I can discount this as a relevant issue to
> producing CF - if CF effects are loading dependant then perhaps it doesn't
> matter how much deuterium is originally in the electrolyte (unless more
> deuterium means faster loading times)... I guess I am wondering if there is
> a minimum accepted concentration which will produce effects and whether the
> degree of those effects change with changes in deuterium concentration?
>
> The motivation for my question is my current concern with understanding and
> characterizing
> the degree of consensus around protocol and procedure with respect to "wet"
> electrolysis
> systems at least. To this end I have found that Ed Storm's writing has been
> very helpful but
> the trick is in gauging a kind of common denomenator with respect to what
> actually matters
> for producing the effect.
>
> I also wonder if my question has any relevance for CF in light water. I
> have been wondering of late, what has been the fate of the light water CF
> results of 1992-94.  The few experiments I have been involved with were
> light water experiments and they certainly seemed interesting.
>
> cheers,
> Bart Simon (simonb alcor.concordia.ca)
> Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology
> Concordia University, Montreal

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 13:18:41 2001
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It certainly was a way of getting some interesting dialouge going. We have
just scratched the surface. Ryan Wood, military documents analyst, relating
to ET documentation  ----- March 1942 "Of Interplanetary origin" was another
document.  Vannever Bush wrote a memo. "exploit ET technology" and
"neutronic power plant" more on that later as it is suspected neutrinos are
one the key  space particles for advanced space drive syatems.  Also Dennis
Bossack, who worked for the Omega secret agency of the US Govt for 29 years
has information that there are 923 inhabited planets, 732 of them are
clearly advanced and have deep space travel capabilities. 3 of the 732 are:
Zeta Reticlium, 200 million years advanced; Pleadies and 300 million years
advanced; and Pugarians are 2 trillion years advanced (from humans). Bruce
Meland editor www.electrifyingtimes.com
From: Nick Palmer <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich


> Bruce, I would like you to stop cross posting all of the sub paranoid
> delusional stuff that you seem so fond of . I know I could put you into an
> email kill file, but I don't see why I should be forced to go to that
> trouble. Few here mind if off topic messages are posted every now and
again
> but NOT lengthy cross posts of crazy off topic exchanges between unknown
> people. Anybody else agree with me?
>
> Nick
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 13:54:45 2001
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Subject: Re: High frequency zero point patent
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> Title: FIRST ZERO POINT PATENT
> The first Zero Point  electromagnetic radiation energy patent was issued
to
> Dr. Frank Mead on Dec. 31, 1996. Pat  no. 5,590,031 made history as Dr.
Mead
> of Edwards Air Force Base designed spherical recievers to access  zero
point
> electromagnetic radiation. These recieving devices that convert neutrinos,
> gamma rays, tachyons, and perhaps other magnetic energy  to electricity
require very high frequency reciever  technology. Dr. Mead grapples with the
high frequencies that may extend up
> to 10 to the 40th Hz(cycles per second). To get an idea how high these
zero
> point frequencies are:   gigahertz radar is only 10 to the 10th Hz.
Visible
> light is about 10 to the 14th Hz and gamma rays reach into the 10 to the
> 20th powers where the wave length is smaller than an atom. Apparently
these small
> particles are necessary to access these very high frequency zero point
> energy particles in vibration. Dr Mead is interested in working with
single particles
> like protons or neutrons that may only be slightly different by only parts
> per trillion.   Again read carefully articles on Nikola Tesla's electric
> Pierce-Arrow, page17, of the new Inside Edition of Electrifying Times,
soon to go on the newstands and bookstores nationwide.  Tesla evidently was
the first human on planet earth to
> build a zero point energy recieving device and convert it to electricity
to
> power his electric Pierce-Arrow.  Zero point electromagnetic radiation
> energy, will hopefully  be used to power interplanetary craft  for us
earthlings, as well
> as provide for our other power needs. It has remained unharnessed as far
> as most earth humans  know. A few private inventors have stumbled on how
to do it but they have been warned  by the establishment not to bring the
technology to maket.
Dr. Marc Millis of NASA's new  Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Research
Program has published articles
> relating to Zero Point Space Drives. "Challenge to Create the Space Drive"
> (J. Prop. & Power, V.13. No. 5, 1997, p. 577). In it Dr Millis states,
> "Electromagnetism is also suggested as a target phenomenenon for space
drive
> research because of ZPF. (Zero Point Field) ZPF is also an electromagnetic
> phenomenom and discovering a way to react with ZPF would likely create a
> space drive"  Refs: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9901011.  and   "Inside
Zero
> Point Energy" by Thomas Valone, Infinite Energy, Vol 5, Issue 26, 1999,
> www.infinite-energy.com     Electrifying Times will also write about some
of these private inventors technology besides Nikola Tesla, and their
results of converting Zero Point Energy to Electricity. Bruce Meland, editor
www.electrifyingtimes.com
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 19:50:59 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:49:21 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Jim Uban's message of Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:38:09 -0400:
[snip]
>surprising strength per distance.  So, it's not the 
>normal E-M wave, but instead a radial (longitudinal)
>E-field pulse.  Given 1/r, it will be felt at great
>distance.
[snip]
Which is exactly what Tesla was working on after he gave up on EM waves.
This is what the Wardencliff transmitter was designed for.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 14 20:03:12 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: New Paper by Podkletnov, et al.
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:02:08 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:53:26 -0500:

>Jim:
>
>This distribution would cause the total energy of a pulse to increase as it 
>radiates in all three dimensions.  (or maybe it is not energy ??)  or maybe 
>I need a look at the derivation.  I will have to look back to the beginning 
>of this thread.  It was the 1/r that got me following it so I sort of 
>popped in the middle of things.
[snip]
The energy probably does increase with distance! This would be a means
of extracting energy from the vacuum, and the concept resonates with the
work of Prof. Konstantin Meyl, who claims excess energy and also with
that of Tesla, who appeared to claim as much.
It also correlates with the new EM theories that Tom Bearden and
associates promulgate, see
http://www.ott.doe.gov/electromagnetic/papersbooks.html .

One other point of interest - I suspect that any energy system making
use of FTL transfer produces FE. Now both Tesla and Meyl claim FTL,
which wouldn't surprise me in the least for a longitudinal wave.

Charles question:- What energy increase function do you calculate, as a
function of distance? (then take a look a Peter Lindemann's explanation
of Edwin Gray's tube (US4595975), and do a quick calculation based on
the ratio of the tube radius to the spark radius).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:05:44 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  bruce meland's message of Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:21:41 -0700:
[snip]
>Zeta Reticlium, 200 million years advanced; Pleadies and 300 million years
>advanced; and Pugarians are 2 trillion years advanced (from humans). Bruce
[snip]
Hi Bruce,

I take it this means there was no Big Bang, or they found a means to
survive it?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 04:04:23 2001
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: "Francis J. Stenger" <fstenger suite224.net>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <gesrabspar@aol.com>, <jlsparber@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Accelerated Frame Time Dilation & Gravity Force
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:57:57 -0500
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Frank,

For a model of the three quarks in a proton, imagine three Ferris wheels side-by-side
rotating at ~ c (10 mph peripheral velocity) on a horizontal axis as being the same as
the three current circles "quarks" side-by-side in the proton with the two "positive"
(q+) wheels rotating clockwise and the "negative" (q-)wheel rotating
counter-clockwise.

Undilated loop current, Io = qc/2(pi)r

Accel. Frame loop current, Id = (1-v^/c^2)^1/2*qc/2(pi)r

For the three proton quarks, 2(pi)r ~ = 3.0E-17 meters,

Io ~ =1.66E6 amperes.

Id ~ = 5.0E-13 amperes

The Gravitational Force (Fg) between two quarks, (m1)at 1.0 meter separation:

Fg = G* (m1)^2 = 6.67E-11(5.53E-28)^2 = 2.0E-65  nt

The Electrostatic Force (Fes) between two quarks, at 1.0
meter separation:

Fes = k*q^2  =  (1/4(pi)eo)(q^2) = 2.305E-28 nt

Thus Fes/Fg = 2.305E-28/2.0E-65 = 1.13E37

But, (Fes/Fg)^1/2 = 1.137E37^1/2 = 3.36E18 = 1/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2

AND:

The Magnetic Force (Fm) between two quarks(M1)at 1.0 meter separation:

Fm =  km* (M1)^2 = 1.0E-7 (qc)^2 = 2.305E-28 nt

The Same as Fes.

IOW, Fm/Fg = 1.13E37 = Fes/Fg

Then:  (Fm/Fg)^1/2 = 1.13E37^1/2 = 3.36E 18 = 1/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2

Which seems to indicate that Accelerated Frames act independently of one another, thus
the Gravity Force between two accelerated frames is the product of the
reciprocals of their gamma factors.

Which is gonna make it less difficult to couple to it?

Regards,    Frederick






From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 09:57:11 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
To: "Dr. Jack Sarfatti" <sarfatti well.com>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <billyne@earthlink.net>,
        <deepers2 aol.com>, "Remy C." <remyc@prodigy.net>,
        "Buster Anderson" <beenergy telusplanet.net>, <pgb@padrak.com>,
        <JCarey9622 aol.com>, <hwbecker@mwci.net>,
        "John Bradley ACEEE" <jbradley aceee.org>,
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        <puthoff aol.com>, "Hal Fox" <halfox@uswest.net>
References: <00cf01c12503$af952000$64181ad8 oemcomputer> <3B79926A.8D6DEBC3@well.com>
Subject: Re: High frequency zero point patent
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:59:40 -0700
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Sorry Jack  22nd Century technology is here today.  For this Planet to
survive, even the NWO realizes we need a quantum leap in transportation and
space drive systems.  I am sure the advanced researchers at Area 51, Pine
Gap, and Edwards AFB know all about this zeropoint space drive  system.
Bruce

>
>
> bruce meland wrote:
>
> > > Title: FIRST ZERO POINT PATENT
> > > The first Zero Point  electromagnetic radiation energy patent was
issued
> > to
> > > Dr. Frank Mead on Dec. 31, 1996. Pat  no. 5,590,031 made history as
Dr.
> > Mead
> > > of Edwards Air Force Base designed spherical recievers to access  zero
> > point
> > > electromagnetic radiation. These recieving devices that convert
neutrinos,
> > > gamma rays, tachyons, and perhaps other magnetic energy  to
electricity
> > require very high frequency reciever  technology.
>
> This is bullshit!
>
> > Dr. Mead grapples with the
> > high frequencies that may extend up
> > > to 10 to the 40th Hz(cycles per second). To get an idea how high these
> > zero
> > > point frequencies are:   gigahertz radar is only 10 to the 10th Hz.
> > Visible
> > > light is about 10 to the 14th Hz and gamma rays reach into the 10 to
the
> > > 20th powers where the wave length is smaller than an atom. Apparently
> > these small
> > > particles are necessary to access these very high frequency zero point
> > > energy particles in vibration. Dr Mead is interested in working with
> > single particles
> > > like protons or neutrons that may only be slightly different by only
parts
> > > per trillion.   Again read carefully articles on Nikola Tesla's
electric
> > > Pierce-Arrow, page17, of the new Inside Edition of Electrifying Times,
> > soon to go on the newstands and bookstores nationwide.  Tesla evidently
was
> > the first human on planet earth to
> > > build a zero point energy recieving device and convert it to
electricity
> > to
> > > power his electric Pierce-Arrow.  Zero point electromagnetic radiation
> > > energy, will hopefully  be used to power interplanetary craft  for us
> > earthlings, as well
> > > as provide for our other power needs. It has remained unharnessed as
far
> > > as most earth humans  know. A few private inventors have stumbled on
how
> > to do it but they have been warned  by the establishment not to bring
the
> > technology to maket.
> > Dr. Marc Millis of NASA's new  Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Research
> > Program has published articles
> > > relating to Zero Point Space Drives. "Challenge to Create the Space
Drive"
> > > (J. Prop. & Power, V.13. No. 5, 1997, p. 577). In it Dr Millis states,
> > > "Electromagnetism is also suggested as a target phenomenenon for space
> > drive
> > > research because of ZPF. (Zero Point Field) ZPF is also an
electromagnetic
> > > phenomenom and discovering a way to react with ZPF would likely create
a
> > > space drive"  Refs: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9901011.  and
"Inside
> > Zero
> > > Point Energy" by Thomas Valone, Infinite Energy, Vol 5, Issue 26,
1999,
> > > www.infinite-energy.com     Electrifying Times will also write about
some
> > of these private inventors technology besides Nikola Tesla, and their
> > results of converting Zero Point Energy to Electricity. Bruce Meland,
editor
> > www.electrifyingtimes.com
> > >
>
> --
> CREATE, COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE
> http://stardrive.org
>
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 10:06:18 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
To: "Dr. Jack Sarfatti" <sarfatti well.com>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <billyne@earthlink.net>,
        <deepers2 aol.com>, "Remy C." <remyc@prodigy.net>,
        "Buster Anderson" <beenergy telusplanet.net>, <pgb@padrak.com>,
        <JCarey9622 aol.com>, <hwbecker@mwci.net>,
        "John Bradley ACEEE" <jbradley aceee.org>,
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Subject: Re: High frequency zero point patent
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:09:02 -0700
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Hey Jack If you are so sure there ain't no ZPF or ZPE, how much money are
you willing to bet  that there are not demonstratable devices that capture
ZPE?. If you or any one else is willing to put up $3,000, a demonstration
can perhaps be arranged.  Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr. Jack Sarfatti <sarfatti well.com>
To: bruce meland <etimes teleport.com>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>; <yokatta@oxy.edu>; <billyne@earthlink.net>;
<deepers2 aol.com>; Remy C. <remyc@prodigy.net>; Buster Anderson
<beenergy telusplanet.net>; <pgb@padrak.com>; <JCarey9622@aol.com>;
<hwbecker mwci.net>; John Bradley ACEEE <jbradley@aceee.org>; Franklin. Mead
(E-mail) <Franklin.Mead edwards.af.mil>; <puthoff@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: High frequency zero point patent


>
>
> bruce meland wrote:
>
> > > Title: FIRST ZERO POINT PATENT
> > > The first Zero Point  electromagnetic radiation energy patent was
issued
> > to
> > > Dr. Frank Mead on Dec. 31, 1996. Pat  no. 5,590,031 made history as
Dr.
> > Mead
> > > of Edwards Air Force Base designed spherical recievers to access  zero
> > point
> > > electromagnetic radiation. These recieving devices that convert
neutrinos,
> > > gamma rays, tachyons, and perhaps other magnetic energy  to
electricity
> > require very high frequency reciever  technology.
>
> This is bullshit!
>
> > Dr. Mead grapples with the
> > high frequencies that may extend up
> > > to 10 to the 40th Hz(cycles per second). To get an idea how high these
> > zero
> > > point frequencies are:   gigahertz radar is only 10 to the 10th Hz.
> > Visible
> > > light is about 10 to the 14th Hz and gamma rays reach into the 10 to
the
> > > 20th powers where the wave length is smaller than an atom. Apparently
> > these small
> > > particles are necessary to access these very high frequency zero point
> > > energy particles in vibration. Dr Mead is interested in working with
> > single particles
> > > like protons or neutrons that may only be slightly different by only
parts
> > > per trillion.   Again read carefully articles on Nikola Tesla's
electric
> > > Pierce-Arrow, page17, of the new Inside Edition of Electrifying Times,
> > soon to go on the newstands and bookstores nationwide.  Tesla evidently
was
> > the first human on planet earth to
> > > build a zero point energy recieving device and convert it to
electricity
> > to
> > > power his electric Pierce-Arrow.  Zero point electromagnetic radiation
> > > energy, will hopefully  be used to power interplanetary craft  for us
> > earthlings, as well
> > > as provide for our other power needs. It has remained unharnessed as
far
> > > as most earth humans  know. A few private inventors have stumbled on
how
> > to do it but they have been warned  by the establishment not to bring
the
> > technology to maket.
> > Dr. Marc Millis of NASA's new  Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Research
> > Program has published articles
> > > relating to Zero Point Space Drives. "Challenge to Create the Space
Drive"
> > > (J. Prop. & Power, V.13. No. 5, 1997, p. 577). In it Dr Millis states,
> > > "Electromagnetism is also suggested as a target phenomenenon for space
> > drive
> > > research because of ZPF. (Zero Point Field) ZPF is also an
electromagnetic
> > > phenomenom and discovering a way to react with ZPF would likely create
a
> > > space drive"  Refs: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/hep-th/9901011.  and
"Inside
> > Zero
> > > Point Energy" by Thomas Valone, Infinite Energy, Vol 5, Issue 26,
1999,
> > > www.infinite-energy.com     Electrifying Times will also write about
some
> > of these private inventors technology besides Nikola Tesla, and their
> > results of converting Zero Point Energy to Electricity. Bruce Meland,
editor
> > www.electrifyingtimes.com
> > >
>
> --
> CREATE, COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE
> http://stardrive.org
>
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 11:03:52 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Morton
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010811141004.24030J-100000 college.antioch-college.edu>
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On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:

> 	It was hard for me to get hold of him.  He has put down the work
> and seems to treasure his privacy.  He continued to say the whole was
> written up in ESJ.

Has anyone yet sent the Modanese/Podkletnov paper to Mr. Morton?   If not,
I can send him a copy.

Perhaps if he sees that others are on the same track but using complicated
equipment and a very different theory, he can be persuaded to help
demonstrate the "beam" effect and to show that no superconductors are
required.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
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	Dear Bill,


	Please do so.... and give him my best regards.

	And you might send him some of the earlier papers using YBCO ...
so that he may see a progression.... this cannot help but jog ideas for
him.  He is truly a thinking man.

			

				John

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, William Beaty wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:
> 
> > 	It was hard for me to get hold of him.  He has put down the work
> > and seems to treasure his privacy.  He continued to say the whole was
> > written up in ESJ.
> 
> Has anyone yet sent the Modanese/Podkletnov paper to Mr. Morton?   If not,
> I can send him a copy.
> 
> Perhaps if he sees that others are on the same track but using complicated
> equipment and a very different theory, he can be persuaded to help
> demonstrate the "beam" effect and to show that no superconductors are
> required.
> 
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 12:00:08 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
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Cc: <billiyne earthlink.net>, "Dr. Jack Sarfatti" <sarfatti@well.com>,
        <yokatta oxy.edu>, "Hal Fox" <halfox@uswest.net>,
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Subject: Fw: Fw: Occult Nazis, Esalen, Gurdjieff
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----- Original Message -----
From: <MHoustonx aol.com>
To: <etimes teleport.com>
Cc: <MHoustonx aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Occult Nazis, Esalen, Gurdjieff


> Bruce: Concerning Bill Lyne
>
> He sure talks up a storm.  But is he telling the truth?  If he is wrong on
> general topics, how can he be right about Electrodynamics?
>
> Chapparal did not win at LeMans in 1967, the Ford GT Mk IV of A.J. Foyt
and
> Dan Gurney did!
>
> These are some of the many errors filling this guy William Lyne's long
winded
> historic connections.  I notice he even has stuff up on some Finnish
websites.
>
> Find someone who tells their general history right, then listen to the
> fantastic stories about Electrodynamics!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Marshall Houston
> Portland, Oregon
>
>

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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <cay electricspacecraft.com>, <war123@aztec.asu.edu>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1010815110024.8617F-100000 eskimo.com>
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Hi Bill,

I sent Charles Yost of Electric Spacecraft a [PDF] hardcopy to forward but
Charles also managed to download that himself and has sent that copy on to
Mr. Morton. Charles also mentioned that Morton wasn't too interested in the
subject anymore..  but hopefully, once he sees that paper he'll change his
mind, as you suggested.


The Podkletnov experiment also utilized a high strength magnet field- from a
coil that surrounded the vacuum chamber and around the discharge anode- as
it fired. Along with the superconducting [anode] , this would have several
effects on the arc discharge. It would probably cause the arc to spin (is
that correct?), and it allowed better control for focusing of the discharge
path. If we are to replicate, I suggest we could utilize nickel plated
neodymium magnets in a similar configuration, and the use of focussing
coils. Also- a Marxbank high voltage pulse generator is probably the
preferred [secondary] power supply rather than the Van de Graff. They used
an Arkkadjev-Marx high voltage pulse generator. I'm not sure if or how it
differs from the Marxbank. The schematic's seem identical.

Comments?


Btw, if anyone knows how to properly download, and install PS and Ghostview
software, can they please send me the instructions or the URL? I spent hours
trying this, but to no avail.

 Colin Quinney.

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Beaty" <billb eskimo.com>
To: "John Schnurer" <herman antioch-college.edu>
Cc: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Morton


> On Sat, 11 Aug 2001, John Schnurer wrote:
>
> > It was hard for me to get hold of him.  He has put down the work
> > and seems to treasure his privacy.  He continued to say the whole was
> > written up in ESJ.
>
> Has anyone yet sent the Modanese/Podkletnov paper to Mr. Morton?   If not,
> I can send him a copy.
>
> Perhaps if he sees that others are on the same track but using complicated
> equipment and a very different theory, he can be persuaded to help
> demonstrate the "beam" effect and to show that no superconductors are
> required.
>
>
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (
   (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
>


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Nature Contents: 16 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6848 pp. 663 -
750
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:00:00 -0400
From: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>
Reply-To: Customer Service <tocreplies appserver5.nature.com>
To: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>

Nature - Table of Contents
Now available at http://www.nature.com/nature/

Visit Nature online to browse the content of the current issue,
including articles, letters to Nature, brief communications
and web extras.

Please note that you need to be a subscriber to enjoy full text
access to Nature online. To purchase a subscription, please visit
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Nature Contents: 16 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6848
(c)Copyright 2001 Macmillan Publishers Ltd

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Explore the reorganization of gene-based drug discovery, learn about 
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---------------------
review article
---------------------
Structural mimicry in bacterial virulence
C E STEBBINS & J E GALÁN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412701a0_fs.html

---------------------
letters to Nature
---------------------
Deficiency of molecular hydrogen in the disk of beta Pictoris
A LECAVELIER DES ETANGS, A VIDAL-MADJAR, A ROBERGE, P D FELDMAN,
M DELEUIL, M ANDRÉ, W P BLAIR, J-C BOURET, J-M DÉSERT, R FERLET,
S FRIEDMAN, G HÉBRARD, M LEMOINE & H W MOOS
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412706a0_fs.html

Origin of the Moon in a giant impact near the end of the Earth's
formation
R M CANUP & E ASPHAUG
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412708a0_fs.html

Sub-Planck structure in phase space and its relevance for quantum
decoherence 
WOJCIECH HUBERT ZUREK
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412712a0_fs.html

Crystalline ion beams
T SCHÄTZ, U SCHRAMM & D HABS
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412717a0_fs.html

A titanosilicate molecular sieve with adjustable pores for
size-selective adsorption of molecules
S M KUZNICKI, V A BELL, S NAIR, H W HILLHOUSE, R M JACUBINAS,
C M BRAUNBARTH, B H TOBY & M TSAPATSIS
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412720a0_fs.html

The timing of the last deglaciation in North Atlantic climate records
C WAELBROECK, J-C DUPLESSY, E MICHEL, L LABEYRIE, D PAILLARD
& J DUPRAT
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412724a0_fs.html

Direct observation of a submarine volcanic eruption from a sea-floor
instrument caught in a lava flow
C G FOX, W W CHADWICK & R W EMBLEY
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412727a0_fs.html

Spanwise flow and the attachment of the leading-edge vortex on insect
wings
J M BIRCH & M H DICKINSON
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412729a0_fs.html

Change in pattern of ongoing cortical activity with auditory category
learning
F W OHL, H SCHEICH & W J FREEMAN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412733a0_fs.html

Purification of a pluripotent neural stem cell from the adult mouse
brain
R L RIETZE, H VALCANIS, G F BROOKER, T THOMAS, A K VOSS
& P F BARTLETT
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412736a0_fs.html

Antibodies inhibit prion propagation and clear cell cultures of prion
infectivity
D PERETZ, R A WILLIAMSON, K KANEKO, J VERGARA, E LECLERC,
G SCHMITT-ULMS, I R MEHLHORN, G LEGNAME, M R WORMALD, P M RUDD,
R A DWEK, D R BURTON & S B PRUSINER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412739a0_fs.html

Iron deficiency induces the formation of an antenna ring around
trimeric photosystem I in cyanobacteria
T S BIBBY, J NIELD & J BARBER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412743a0_fs.html

A giant chlorophyll--protein complex induced by iron deficiency in
cyanobacteria
E J BOEKEMA, A HIFNEY, A E YAKUSHEVSKA, M PIOTROWSKI, W KEEGSTRA,
S BERRY, K-P MICHEL, E K PISTORIUS & J KRUIP
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412745a0_fs.html

---------------------
brief communications
---------------------
Sex determination: Viviparous lizard selects sex of embryos
K A ROBERT & M B THOMPSON
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412698a0_fs.html

Ancient chronology: Astronomical orientation of the pyramids
D RAWLINS & K PICKERING
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6848/abs/412699a0_fs.html

=====================================================================
The content listing below is accessible only through a subscription.
To purchase a subscription, please visit:
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=====================================================================

---------------------
opinion
---------------------
E-optimism on a tide of red ink

---------------------
news
---------------------
Bush compromise raises doubts over stem-cell resilience

Biologists officially welcome plan

Nutritionists question study of organic food

Wellcome Trust sets out fresh misconduct standards

Academies called to task over human cloning débâcle

Nigeria takes the initiative in African science

Feminized fish encourage Japan to test pollution links

Animal data jeopardized by life behind bars

Chemistry journal reacts to dispute

news in brief

---------------------
news feature
---------------------
To boldly go

The best supporting actors

---------------------
correspondence
---------------------
Organic movement reveals a shift in the social position of science
A MŘRKEBERG & J R PORTER

Politics defeats science at environment agency
H I MILLER

Cooperation among labs is appreciated
J FOLKMAN

---------------------
book reviews
---------------------
A quintessential pluralist: J MADDOX reviews
Solly Zuckerman: A Scientist out of the Ordinary by John Peyton

Signing on the genetic line: R CHADWICK reviews
Your Genetic Destiny: Know Your Genes, Secure Your Health, Save Your
Life by Aubrey Milunsky
and
Future Perfect: Confronting Decisions about Genetics
by Lori B. Andrews

Physics for non-physicists: P LANDSBERG reviews
Hidden Unity in Nature's Laws by John C. Taylor

Wonders of the shallows

For reference: The Penguin Desk Encyclopedia of Science and
Mathematics by Bryan Bunch & Jenny Tesar, The Oxford Companion to the
Earth, A Dictionary of the History of Science by Anton Sebastian, and
Encyclopedia of Genetics

The genetic complexity of life: B CHARLESWORTH reviews
The Misunderstood Gene by Michel Morange (translated by Matthew Cobb)

New in paperback

---------------------
news and views
---------------------
Quantum ripples in chaos
A ALBRECHT

Aerodynamics: Flight of the robofly
G V LAUDER

Quantum physics: Cooperation includes all atoms
J JAVANAINEN

Neurobiology: Stem cells on the brain
R CASSIDY & J FRISÉN

Earth science: Gas hydrates and deglaciations
S B JACOBSEN

Neuroscience: Dynamic categories
M P KILGARD

Planetary science: A new model Moon
J MELOSH

Daedalus: Blood and iron
D JONES

Obituary: Donald J. Cram (1919--2001)
M F HAWTHORNE

100 and 50 years ago

---------------------
new on the market
---------------------
Peptides and proteins

=====================================================================
Links to freely available content on www.nature.com
=====================================================================
 
--------------------------------
feature of the week
--------------------------------
When worlds collide
http://www.nature.com/nature/fow/
 
---------------------------------
nature science update
---------------------------------
No stemming the tide
Adult skin and brain stem cells flesh out debate.
 
Moon making made easy
Mars-sized mass implicated by new model for Moon's violent birth.
 
Rescued rumbleometer reveals all
Deep-sea sensor rides lava river and lives to spill secrets.
 
Bull wins size prize
Medicine and computers could benefit from nano sculpture.
 
Pros and contrails
Flying the redeye may help keep the planet cooler.
 
Hard times ahead
Depressions caused by loss of economic confidence might be
predictable.
 
New path lays DNA puzzles bare
Genome jigsaws may no longer be such head-scratchers.
 
As orientated as a newt
Newts may use the Earth's magnetic field as a map.
 
Fundamental constant swells
The universe may be built on shifting sands.
 
Runways refuse defence
Hi-res radar scans for runway rubbish.
 
Left in music
Musicians' brains may use language modules listening to music.
 
Fire's spread looks fractal
Fight forest fire's fringes first, suggests new model.
 
Great expectations
Placebo mimics drug effects on Parkinson's brains.
 
Plants' roots pushed back
Earth might have turned green earlier.
 
Solar power surge
Self-assembling organic solar cells could harness sunlight cheaply.

http://www.nature.com/nature/
 
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I mistakenly sent this message to just Robin instead of vortex.

In a message dated 8/13/01 11:14:30 PM Central Daylight Time, 
rvanspaa bigpond.net.au writes:

<Check out magnetic cooling as used in cryogenics.  It's a technique used
to get close to absolute zero.>

OK, I did - and this is part of what I found.

The evaporation of liquid helium at reduced pressures produces temperatures 
as low as 0.7 K (-272.44° C/-458.4° F).  Still lower temperatures can be 
attained by adiabatic demagnetization. This procedure requires that a 
magnetic field (see Magnetism) be established around a paramagnetic 
substance, that is, a substance made of paramagnetic ions, while the 
substance is cooled in liquid helium. - Encarta

YES - I see that a magnetic field can be used to "GET GASSES COOLER," but it 
would appear to be a well known process - AND completely different as well.  
NO Where was it mentioned that the electromagnetic "SOURCE" was getting 
cooler.

Cryogenic Cooling has absolutely "NOTHING" to do with my device and the 
electromagnet used in cryogenic cooling MUST gain heat within itself - 
however its magnetic field will not transfer that heat to the cryogenic 
chamber.

It is perfectly clear that nobody really understands what in the hell I have 
invented - but that's OK, in time it will be understood.

Thank you for having me, however I must now get back to work and I will not 
have time to respond to further questions for quite some time.

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 17:01:52 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
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Subject: Magnetic cooling
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	Oh Vo!


	As an general comment.


	If one uses a superconducting magnet .... or a permanent magnet
	as the source of the field for magnetic cooling then the magnets
themselves do not have to get hot or cold, per se.  

	The action of magnetic cooling works because the magnetic field is
able to reach into matter and cause to be internally restrained in motion 
to move more slowly inside.

	Heat can be thought of as movement, or motion.   A magnetic field,
and in some instances an electric field, can be used to restrain this
motion and so thereby modify heat or "coolth" at a distance from the
matter which helps the operator to use the magnetic field.

	Even a weight or a wrench may do it.
	I do know a rubber band will do it.... allow one to refridgerate
locally in the band.

	I think it is  cool!


						J

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Subject: Re: Magnetic cooling
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>	The action of magnetic cooling works because the magnetic field is
>able to reach into matter and cause to be internally restrained in motion
>to move more slowly inside.

so, put two resistors in series, with one inside the field of a strong
permanent magnet, then pump some current thru.  what happens? will the
resistor inside the magnet be cooler?


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 17:35:36 2001
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	Dear Ralph,

	By a VERY small amount in most cases.  This depends on the
materials, geometries, magnitudes. 

	In general the method is used on a continuous basis... just as the
house ice box.   

	Let me see if I can find a nice description...

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, ralph muha wrote:

> >	The action of magnetic cooling works because the magnetic field is
> >able to reach into matter and cause to be internally restrained in motion
> >to move more slowly inside.
> 
> so, put two resistors in series, with one inside the field of a strong
> permanent magnet, then pump some current thru.  what happens? will the
> resistor inside the magnet be cooler?
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 17:41:22 2001
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Home
Vacuum can



	One example


MXP Home

                  Goal and Process

                  Our goal is to reach temperatures below those obtainable
by boiling liquid helium under
                  reduced vapor pressure (~1K).  We will do this using a
paramagnetic salt.  

                  First, the lattice entropy of the salt will be brought
to a negligible minimum by the boiling of
                  liquid helium inside a vacuum can.   Using a 15000 Gauss
superconducting magnet a field will
                  be applied to uniformly align the dipoles in the
direction of the magnetic field.  The salt will
                  then be thermally isolated inside the vacuum can.  As
the magnetic field is reduced the
                  temperature will decrease through an isentropic process.
The temperature decreases
                  because of the fact that the energy of the thermally
isolated system is determined by the
                  magnitude of the magnetic field.  This lower
temperature, T, will then be measured using
                  the relationship between magnetic susceptibility and
temperature, found in Curie's Law: X =
                  c/T.  Here X is the magnetic susceptibility and c is the
Curie constant per unit volume which
                  depends upon the particular salt used.  The temperature
will therefore be measured by
                  determining the magnetic susceptibility.  For an
explanation of this see the following page:

	FROM

http://mxp.physics.umn.edu/s99/Projects/cooling/theory.htm

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, ralph muha wrote:

> >	The action of magnetic cooling works because the magnetic field is
> >able to reach into matter and cause to be internally restrained in motion
> >to move more slowly inside.
> 
> so, put two resistors in series, with one inside the field of a strong
> permanent magnet, then pump some current thru.  what happens? will the
> resistor inside the magnet be cooler?
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 15 17:45:47 2001
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To: ralph muha <rmuha minimal.com>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, Schnurer <herman@antioch-college.edu>
Subject: cooler example of  cooling Magnetic cooling
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	Nearly 100 Carnot efficiency

	

Spinoff Technology


          Active Magnetic Regenerator Refrigerator 
          Astronautics Corporation of America  (Madison, WI) 

          In the early 1990s, SDIO gave seed money to the Astronautics
Corporation of America (Milwaukee,
          WI) to continue development of Astronautics' low temperature (15
K to 7 K) cryogenic refrigeration
          technology for compact, lightweight space-based cooling systems.
This work is being done primarily at
          the Astronautics Technology Center (Madison, WI). Astonautics
spun off this work into an internally
          funded device that resulted in an active magnetic refrigerator
prototype. The device, also developed in
          part with DOE funding, has terrestrial applications for large
industrial cooling needs as well as domestic
          refrigeration and climate control technology (for electric
vehicles). This technology has tremendous
          potential benefits over conventional refrigeration methods in
terms of efficiency, impact on the
          environment, and inexpensive production of liquid hydrogen.



          Technology Description: 

          The Astronautics Technology Center (Madison, WI) has developed a
magnetic refrigerant based on the
          principle of magnetic cooling, or the magnetocaloric effect.
Astronautics has developed a 500-watt
          prototype device called an active magnetic regenerator
refrigerator (AMRR), which is currently used to
          cool a 20-gallon water tank. The refrigerant is comprised of
spherical particles of gadolinium (Gd)
          spheres, a paramagnetic material that heats up as it enters a
magnetic field and cools as it departs the
          field. In this case, a helium-cooled superconducting
niobium-titanate magnet is used to provide a
          5-Tesla magnetic field; the field induces magnetism in Gd
spheres that are immersed in flowing water,
          which is the heat-transfer medium. The water heats and cools as
the Gd is alternately magnetized and
          demagnetized. 

          One of the main benefits of the AMRR is that it uses water as a
heat transfer fluid, replacing expensive
          and environmentally hostile chlorofluorocarbons. Another benefit
is that the magnetocaloric effect is
          intrinsically highly efficient (nearly 100 percent Carnot
efficiency because it is a thermodynamically
          reversible process). However, the necessary use of a heat
transfer liquid reduces the practical Carnot
          efficiency to about 70 percent, which still compares favorably
with the 25 to 60 percent efficiencies of
          conventional refrigerators. Department of Energy's (DOE) Ames
Laboratory (Ames, Iowa) researchers
          Karl Gschneider and Vitalij Pecharsky have also worked with
Astronautics on materials containing Gd
          alloyed with silicon (Si) and germanium (Ge) that have the
potential to achieve even greater cooling
          capacities and higher efficiencies. The cooling capacity of the
paramagnetic Gd alloy can be
          manipulated by varying the relative amounts of Si and Ge.
Magnetocaloric devices also have wide
          operating ranges, on the order of 20 K (-425? F) to 300 K (80?
F), depending on the heat transfer

	From:

http://www.bmdotechnology.net/techsearch.asp?articleid=424


On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, ralph muha wrote:

> >	The action of magnetic cooling works because the magnetic field is
> >able to reach into matter and cause to be internally restrained in motion
> >to move more slowly inside.
> 
> so, put two resistors in series, with one inside the field of a strong
> permanent magnet, then pump some current thru.  what happens? will the
> resistor inside the magnet be cooler?
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 06:53:09 2001
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:45:57 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Bart Simon <simonb post.queensu.ca>
Subject: the names of cold fusion
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Hi all,

Thanks for your replies to my last question on the importance of deuterium
concentration. I have another question on a different matter now.

I am trying to compile a list of different labels people have used to
describe CF effects... euphamisms for cold fusion if you will or indeed
labels that better describe the phenomenon than the name "cold fusion." I
already have for instance Ed Storm's "chemically assisted nuclear
reactions" or the infamous "new hydrogen energy" moniker. I would like to
compile a list of others if you can assist me?

My motivation here is entirely sociological. Please forgive my musings if
this is off-topic for vortex. One would imagine that given the stigma
attached to the label of cold fusion (by journal editors, patent officers,
granting agencies, etc...) it would be prudent to present CF work under a
different label and although I see this happening in journal articles and
patent applications we still have the "International Conferences on Cold
Fusion" (ICCF).  I wonder whether in this case the label of cold fusion
becomes something like a badge of honor.

Any thoughts on the matter?

cheers,
Bart

========================================
Bart Simon
Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology, LB-687
Concordia University
1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. W.
Montreal, Quebec
H3G-1M8

phone: 514-848-2164
fax: 514-848-4539
=========================================

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Bart Simon wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for your replies to my last question on the importance of deuterium
> concentration. I have another question on a different matter now.
>
> I am trying to compile a list of different labels people have used to
> describe CF effects... euphamisms for cold fusion if you will or indeed
> labels that better describe the phenomenon than the name "cold fusion." I
> already have for instance Ed Storm's "chemically assisted nuclear
> reactions" or the infamous "new hydrogen energy" moniker.

Low Energy Nuclear Reactions


>
>
> My motivation here is entirely sociological. Please forgive my musings if
> this is off-topic for vortex. One would imagine that given the stigma
> attached to the label of cold fusion (by journal editors, patent officers,
> granting agencies, etc...) it would be prudent to present CF work under a
> different label and although I see this happening in journal articles and
> patent applications we still have the "International Conferences on Cold
> Fusion" (ICCF).  I wonder whether in this case the label of cold fusion
> becomes something like a badge of honor.

Bart, a rose by any other name, etc.  No one is fooled when a different name
is used.  The claims are still recognized as impossible.

>
>
> Any thoughts on the matter?
>
> cheers,
> Bart
>
> ========================================
> Bart Simon
> Dept. of Sociology and Anthropology, LB-687
> Concordia University
> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. W.
> Montreal, Quebec
> H3G-1M8
>
> phone: 514-848-2164
> fax: 514-848-4539
> =========================================

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 10:29:11 2001
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Bart, CF should be called "The Elusive Bitch"

Hi Gang, I'm back........  I've been lurking in the shadows for a while...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bart Simon" <simonb post.queensu.ca>

> I am trying to compile a list of different labels people have used to
> describe CF effects...



Joe Champion

www.transmutation.com Email: joe_champion hotmail.com



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On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Edmund Storms wrote:
> Bart Simon wrote:
> > patent applications we still have the "International Conferences on Cold
> > Fusion" (ICCF).  I wonder whether in this case the label of cold fusion
> > becomes something like a badge of honor.


The "CF" badge is too tame.  We're all "crackpots," playing with "alchemy."

:)



> Bart, a rose by any other name, etc.  No one is fooled when a different name
> is used.  The claims are still recognized as impossible.

Yet the USPTO was temporarily fooled by Mills' avoidance of the word.

  catalytic hydrogen collapse 

  fractional quantum energy levels

Also:

  PF (Pons/Fleischmann) effect

  Chemical transmutation

  even "excess heat"


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

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Hi John  here is the email I have for Hal Fox   halfox quest.net  Bruce
----- Original Message ----- 
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Vortex <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 6:51 AM
Subject: Hal Fox Address bounce......


> 
> 
> Does anyone have a good address for Hal?
> 
> 
> 

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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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Hi Joe,

Nice to see you again.

In the light of the recent russian discovery http://www.100megsfree4.com/farshores/nrussen.htm,

may precious metals and any other alternate energy production methods would be obsolete. :) 

These guys made the "Super Material". Properties of this class of materials are so exciting, so when become available I am considering replace my original body parts with made by these ones.



Joe Champion wrote:
> 
> Bart, CF should be called "The Elusive Bitch"
> 
> Hi Gang, I'm back........  I've been lurking in the shadows for a while...
> 

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 12:17:01 2001
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:23:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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	I thought Bart was Bart.


	some...tiny ..humor.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, William Beaty wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Edmund Storms wrote:
> > Bart Simon wrote:
> > > patent applications we still have the "International Conferences on Cold
> > > Fusion" (ICCF).  I wonder whether in this case the label of cold fusion
> > > becomes something like a badge of honor.
> 
> 
> The "CF" badge is too tame.  We're all "crackpots," playing with "alchemy."
> 
> :)
> 
> 
> 
> > Bart, a rose by any other name, etc.  No one is fooled when a different name
> > is used.  The claims are still recognized as impossible.
> 
> Yet the USPTO was temporarily fooled by Mills' avoidance of the word.
> 
>   catalytic hydrogen collapse 
> 
>   fractional quantum energy levels
> 
> Also:
> 
>   PF (Pons/Fleischmann) effect
> 
>   Chemical transmutation
> 
>   even "excess heat"
> 
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 12:46:37 2001
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:56:32 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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At 9:45 AM 8/16/1, Bart Simon wrote:

>I am trying to compile a list of different labels people have used to
>describe CF effects... euphamisms for cold fusion if you will or indeed
>labels that better describe the phenomenon than the name "cold fusion." I
>already have for instance Ed Storm's "chemically assisted nuclear
>reactions" or the infamous "new hydrogen energy" moniker. I would like to
>compile a list of others if you can assist me?


I don't know if they fulfill your needs, but in addition to the generic CF
terms there are a wide variety of terms for cold (or at least non-hot)
fusion based on a specific model or proposed mechanism for the fusion, or
novel device employed to create fusion.  Some examples are:


"warm fusion" of Clayter et al., employing a gas environment and higher
energies than typical P & F electrochmical cells

"sono-fusion", employing sonoluminescent bubbles, a form of fusion
recognized as real but not (yet) practicle as an energy source, and not
necessarily, but possibly, tied to cold fusion.  Commonly analysed by hot
fusion methods, thus is considered by some to be strictly a conventional
hot fusion phenomenon.

"electrospark" or "pyrolitic" fusion - employing underwater spark, arc, or
glow environments

"cryo-fusion" - induced by cold shocking metal with adsorbed hydrogen

"fracto-fusion" - fusion induced by fracturing metal containing adsorbed
hydrogen

"BEC induced" fusion - employing Bose-Einstein Condensations, or "BECs".

"Proto-neutron catalysed" fusion

"Electron catalysed fusion" - as distinguished from the "muon catalysed
fusion" of Steve Jones et al, which is form of "cold" fusion widely
recognized as real though presently impracticle

"nano-fusion", "nanotube" fusion, or "cluster" fusion - fusion induced by
catalytic effects of carbon nanotubes and/or cluster impact

If you restrict your definition from "labels people have used to describe
CF effects..." to "labels that recognized experts have used to describe CF
effects..." then the list will of course narrow.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 13:26:04 2001
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Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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The Navy calls CF "anomalous effects in deuterated systems."

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 13:48:29 2001
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Joe Firmage is now investing in new energy.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Engaging the Future
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:39:24 -0700
From: Joe Firmage <joefirmage firmage.org>
To: firmage_bulletin firmage.org

Hello friend,

You subscribed to my e-mail list at some point in the past three
years, and I've rarely taken the liberty of sending you a
message. But this week marks a special time. It is my pleasure
today to formally introduce Motion Sciences, a not-for-profit
advanced physics research and development organization dedicated
to pioneering breakthrough technologies for 21st century life.
After decades of theoretical and experimental physics research,
parts of which I've had the honor to help sponsor over the past
three years, scientists around the country are converging to help
catalyze a brighter future for all life on Earth. And today, I am
asking for your help in this mission. Learn more about Motion
Sciences at http://MotionSciences.org, and how you can help
advance our work at http://MotionSciences.org/joinnow.html.

Ad astra,
Joe Firmage


ABOUT MOTION SCIENCES

After several years and millions of dollars invested in
preparatory work, scientists in several research institutions
across the United States have come together. The people and
partners forming Motion Sciences believe that significant
discoveries in physics may be made within 10 years, discoveries
of great significance to the future of life on Earth. Explore
with me a hypothetical future.

Imagine that we discover by 2005 a breakthrough in energy
generation -- a device that can produce electricity with almost
no fuel, cost, or waste. Imagine limitless conversion of seawater
to fresh water by 2015. Imagine that by 2025 we no longer need an
electricity grid. Imagine a pollution-free atmosphere by 2030.
Imagine a permanent end to the growing snarls of freeway traffic
by 2040. Imagine a society which recognizes a human right to move
about as freely as the goods of its economy -- across any border,
any time; or a reusable transportation vehicle that can take you
into Space, driven by a field of force rather than ejection of
propellant. Finally imagine a green Africa with a vibrant society
of human and natural life in 2051.

Sounds like science fiction, doesn't it? In fact, the vision
described above portrays precisely the kind of future emerging
from the implications of some of the best physics research
underway in the world today. A group of talented scientists and
engineers began quiet collaboration a few years ago, and have now
publicly joined forces in and with Motion Sciences, bringing
essential collaboration to a very challenging set of research and
development projects, a collaboration that we hope can soon
extend to engage complementary teams around the world.

In the process of forming this particular organization, we
considered for many months what kind of structure it should have.
Should Motion Sciences be a commercial, venture-capital backed
company? We tested this idea briefly, but more important in our
considerations, however, is the principle of what this mission is
all about, and it isn't about an IPO. Our mission is about the
possibility of sharing with the world one day tools that could
reverse environmental decline, end starvation and poverty, and
make wars a horror of the past.

Our mission is about helping to enable a renewal of human
civilization, and Nature as a whole.

Our mission is about the possibility that we will someday be able
to explore the Milky Way Galaxy in an interstellar spacecraft.

Our mission is about scientific knowledge that shouldn't be owned
by a commercial corporation.

Motion Sciences Organization is therefore truly a public
enterprise -- and if we're successful, the proceeds yielded from
technologies sponsored by Motion Sciences will be given back to
humanity through select philanthropies. As a not-for-profit
501(c)3, our success in these missions will be dependent upon the
support of visionary institutional sponsors and citizens of
Earth. People like you. We have a goal for the 2001 calendar
year: engaging the support of 100,000 citizens of Earth, becoming
members of the Motion Sciences Community.

On behalf of a rare and talented network of highly credentialed
and rigorous scientists, engineers, and the teams assisting them,
I invite you to join with the people and institutional partners
of Motion Sciences in an historic attempt at a vital mission. I
cannot imagine a better way for the physics of the 21st century
to be pioneered, than for citizens from all nations to come
together and make it so.  Let's join hands around the planet!

Joseph P. Firmage
Chairman
Motion Sciences Organization
http://MotionSciences.org



*****

You have received this email because you are subscribed to Joe
Firmage's mailing list.  If you wish to be removed from the list,
please send an empty email to
firmage_bulletin-unsubscribe firmage.org.

Thank you.
  
*****

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 14:54:32 2001
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Subject: Re: Hal Fox  Address bounce...... correction
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At 12:03 16/08/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi John  here is the email I have for Hal Fox   
halfox quest.net  

nope, it's

halfox qwest.net  

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:07:29 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:06:19 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  hamdi ucar's message of Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:10:56 +0300:
[snip]
>These guys made the "Super Material". Properties of this class of materials are so exciting, so when become available I am considering replace my original body parts with made by these ones.

ROFL! Hamdi, you do crack me up at times! :)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:10:31 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:09:36 +1000
Organization: Improving
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Also LENT and LANT.
LENT (I think) = Lattice Enhanced Nuclear Transmutation
LANT (    "  ) = Lattice Assisted Nuclear Transmutation


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:36:20 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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	Dear Robin,

	I missed it!

	What was the "you crack me up ....." message....?

	Please.

				J

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> In reply to  hamdi ucar's message of Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:10:56 +0300:
> [snip]
> >These guys made the "Super Material". Properties of this class of materials are so exciting, so when become available I am considering replace my original body parts with made by these ones.
> 
> ROFL! Hamdi, you do crack me up at times! :)
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 16:38:57 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> Also LENT and LANT.
> LENT (I think) = Lattice Enhanced Nuclear Transmutation
> LANT (    "  ) = Lattice Assisted Nuclear Transmutation
> LAMP (I like ) = Lettuce and Mushroom Pizza  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 20:25:56 2001
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Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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Some say it do and some say it don't
Some say it will and some say it won't
Where do I stand? lines drawn in the sand
and the truth is as solid as smoke.

Folks:

This one could get us into a whole travel package through the grand history 
of science and the behavior of men.  Namely "Experts" and "peers" who you 
"scientists" and "inventors" seek to skeptically review your work.  Trust 
me you get what you ask for.  There is plenty of pure unabridged skepticism 
on tap.  You move forward asking for the blessing people whose minds must 
be pried open with a wreaking bar.

In this case I specifically remember the work of one George Simon 
Ohm.  Skeptical review of his work with the quantification of electrical 
resistance offered George a rather brightly shining black eye.  Further 
pursuit of his proven theory eventually resulted in his ending up poor and 
homeless.

The fruits of this theory have now become the basis of an entire new age of 
technology.  George's theory quantifies a unit of electrical resistance and 
is now named Ohm's law.  It was named posthumously friends.

There is a whole host of additional posthumously named theories.

For the purpose of continued advancement screw the peer review.  It will 
only get you a bloody nose.  Once we have working and repeatable 
experimental data then they will ether accept it or we will just run them 
over.  To continue we should all work within our own talents and share 
information.  This way we learn from each others talents and 
advance.  Being recognized for the advancement is a selfish and shallow 
goal wich only leaves your conspirators bitter. If the theory is a rely 
good one and history has any truth to tell us then your recognition will 
likely be awarded posthumously anyway.

Learn from the past and hope for the future but live today.
"Cirpe diem"

Personally I would much rather contribute while I am still alive.





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 16 21:07:35 2001
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From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 00:14:35 -0700
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Hello all,
	The following letter purports to be on a 'fast track' to 
bringing prosperity, sweetness and light to all of us.  In 
reallity their aims are a bit more immediate and decidedly down 
to earth.  The page that they refer to loads as a black 'nothing'
in the Konqueror browser.  That is because it is all direct X 
controls and probably web bugs as well.  I detected no obvious
spyware like cookies;  they are probably too subtle for that.  I
did find, however, that one goes nowhere on their site without
first downloading, and installing, a spyware product called
'Flash 5' !  So the whole thing is a come-on to sucker us
into installing this browser plug-in called 'Flash 5' !!
This used to be, in its earlier incarnations, a useful if 
frivolous grafiks player back in the days when all
grafiks were cached first and then played.  Now the graphics
are 'streamed', meaning the program takes control of YOUR
computer that YOU paid for and runs whatever IT likes on
YOUR equipment and YOUR electricity. 
	It even installs itself withour your choice or knowledge
of just what files it puts where.  It will not let you download
an executable or a zip file so that you can install it later,
or again if you do an upgrade or component change.  Oh
no!  It arrogantly and rudely does it right away without your
permission or input or ability to intervene save your use of
the power switch.....you DID put an external power strip
on your computer line did you not??!   ...after the digital 
monopoly sought to keep you from turning it off when they 
initiated the PC-97 ATX standard.....did'nt you?..........and 
you DO use an external modem with a hardwired absolute power
switch did'nt you?  Even in the computer age, crooks are
much alike.  Honest folks would provide you with a way to
do these things rather than patronize you and then steal
from you.  Your data, parts of it anyway, are worth money
to every suede shoe boy that ever drew a breath.  Where 
do you think all your junk mail comes from, or how certain
government agencies find out that you like sushi.
	Streaming media plug-ins  leave no trace
in your cache, probably covering its tracks while it shows you
'interesting pictures' .  The 'pictures' are probably a 
distraction while it is looting your machine of all the data that
it can find like a shoplifter operating in a team....one 
distracts whilst the other steals.  Think of it!  If it can 
create and destroy files in your machine in one place, which
it HAS to do if it is going to do this 'streaming', it can do 
the same in another.  Communication being two way in the 
process and instructions to your machine coming from a
foreign 'agent' that has taken it over for the duration of the
'streaming'.........and perhaps MUCH longer....who is to say
that data cannot also be sucked out of your machine as
part of the same process.  NO DOUBT the creaters of this
nonsense will deny the above with a 'smiling face'.
I can hear them now: "Oh !!  I just can't IMAGINE where you got 
the idea that we do this.  Do you have PROOF.?  
Court proof!!".  Neither did the Laotians that escaped
the killing fields of Angkha Loew (They were going
to go BACK and their bring their smiling torturers to
'willingly' testify! ........no one would ever belief that!)
Those Laotians were just as dead and to this day
the US government has stonewalled on the
real fate of Saloth Sar (Pol Pot)   The
Jews were given similar assurances by the nazis when
they were about to be 'deloused'.
	Thank God I use Linux for browsing.  Linux stops
these schmucks cold.  They can peddle their putz elseware.
.........AND I WILL NEVER DOWNLOAD ANY FLASH 'PLAYER'!
WE KNOW WHO IS BEING PLAYED!!!

Standing Bear






On Thursday 16 August 2001 13:50, Terry Blanton wrote:
> Joe Firmage is now investing in new energy.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Engaging the Future
> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:39:24 -0700
> From: Joe Firmage <joefirmage firmage.org>
> To: firmage_bulletin firmage.org
> 
> Hello friend,
> 
> You subscribed to my e-mail list at some point in the past 
three
> years, and I've rarely taken the liberty of sending you a
> message. But this week marks a special time. It is my pleasure
> today to formally introduce Motion Sciences, a not-for-profit
> advanced physics research and development organization 
dedicated
> to pioneering breakthrough technologies for 21st century life.
> After decades of theoretical and experimental physics research,
> parts of which I've had the honor to help sponsor over the past
> three years, scientists around the country are converging to 
help
> catalyze a brighter future for all life on Earth. And today, I 
am
> asking for your help in this mission. Learn more about Motion
> Sciences at http://MotionSciences.org, and how you can help
> advance our work at http://MotionSciences.org/joinnow.html.
> 
> Ad astra,
> Joe Firmage
> 
> 
> ABOUT MOTION SCIENCES
> 
> After several years and millions of dollars invested in
> preparatory work, scientists in several research institutions
> across the United States have come together. The people and
> partners forming Motion Sciences believe that significant
> discoveries in physics may be made within 10 years, discoveries
> of great significance to the future of life on Earth. Explore
> with me a hypothetical future.
> 
> Imagine that we discover by 2005 a breakthrough in energy
> generation -- a device that can produce electricity with almost
> no fuel, cost, or waste. Imagine limitless conversion of 
seawater
> to fresh water by 2015. Imagine that by 2025 we no longer need 
an
> electricity grid. Imagine a pollution-free atmosphere by 2030.
> Imagine a permanent end to the growing snarls of freeway 
traffic
> by 2040. Imagine a society which recognizes a human right to 
move
> about as freely as the goods of its economy -- across any 
border,
> any time; or a reusable transportation vehicle that can take 
you
> into Space, driven by a field of force rather than ejection of
> propellant. Finally imagine a green Africa with a vibrant 
society
> of human and natural life in 2051.
> 
> Sounds like science fiction, doesn't it? In fact, the vision
> described above portrays precisely the kind of future emerging
> from the implications of some of the best physics research
> underway in the world today. A group of talented scientists and
> engineers began quiet collaboration a few years ago, and have 
now
> publicly joined forces in and with Motion Sciences, bringing
> essential collaboration to a very challenging set of research 
and
> development projects, a collaboration that we hope can soon
> extend to engage complementary teams around the world.
> 
> In the process of forming this particular organization, we
> considered for many months what kind of structure it should 
have.
> Should Motion Sciences be a commercial, venture-capital backed
> company? We tested this idea briefly, but more important in our
> considerations, however, is the principle of what this mission 
is
> all about, and it isn't about an IPO. Our mission is about the
> possibility of sharing with the world one day tools that could
> reverse environmental decline, end starvation and poverty, and
> make wars a horror of the past.
> 
> Our mission is about helping to enable a renewal of human
> civilization, and Nature as a whole.
> 
> Our mission is about the possibility that we will someday be 
able
> to explore the Milky Way Galaxy in an interstellar spacecraft.
> 
> Our mission is about scientific knowledge that shouldn't be 
owned
> by a commercial corporation.
> 
> Motion Sciences Organization is therefore truly a public
> enterprise -- and if we're successful, the proceeds yielded 
from
> technologies sponsored by Motion Sciences will be given back to
> humanity through select philanthropies. As a not-for-profit
> 501(c)3, our success in these missions will be dependent upon 
the
> support of visionary institutional sponsors and citizens of
> Earth. People like you. We have a goal for the 2001 calendar
> year: engaging the support of 100,000 citizens of Earth, 
becoming
> members of the Motion Sciences Community.
> 
> On behalf of a rare and talented network of highly credentialed
> and rigorous scientists, engineers, and the teams assisting 
them,
> I invite you to join with the people and institutional partners
> of Motion Sciences in an historic attempt at a vital mission. I
> cannot imagine a better way for the physics of the 21st century
> to be pioneered, than for citizens from all nations to come
> together and make it so.  Let's join hands around the planet!
> 
> Joseph P. Firmage
> Chairman
> Motion Sciences Organization
> http://MotionSciences.org
> 
> 
> 
> *****
> 
> You have received this email because you are subscribed to Joe
> Firmage's mailing list.  If you wish to be removed from the 
list,
> please send an empty email to
> firmage_bulletin-unsubscribe firmage.org.
> 
> Thank you.
>   
> *****

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 01:23:11 2001
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From: "Nick Palmer" <nick7 itl.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: interesting new s uperconducting device?
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:26:17 +0100
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Hi all,
          I couldn't describe myself as a full blown physicist, but it
seemed to me that this new development (quantum interference in
superconducting liquids) might be of interest to some Vorts. I perked up in
the third paragraph where they mention establishing an "absolute state of
rest".

Nick Palmer

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/superfluids-01b.html


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 05:31:53 2001
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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:27:14 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com>
Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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At 09:45 AM 8/16/2001 -0400, Bart Simon wrote:
>  One would imagine that given the stigma
>attached to the label of cold fusion (by journal editors, patent officers,
>granting agencies, etc...) it would be prudent to present CF work under a
>different label and although


  It is unfortunate when (erroneous and non-scientific) political correctness
trumps the normal integrity of science and expected in Federal documents.

  It is egregious that individuals in US Federal institutions not only 
demand such
(erroneous and non-scientific) political correctness, but also have violated
and overturned the previously widely-held cardinal rule to fully
cite all prior art crafted by those upon whose shoulders we stand.

   IMHO, inventors, scientists, and writers should cite prior art.

   Cold fusion by any other name, remains what it is - an interesting
phenomenon which is nuclear and involves a lattice, and is consistent
with conventional physics.
  Cold fusion involves nuclear reactions near ambient temperature (for the 
whole lattice)
with the de novo production of helium-4 observed if the material is loaded, 
active,
does not fragment, and if the system is driven at the optimal operating point.

    Dr. Mitchell Swartz

            ---------------
    "Perhaps the clearest scientific fact, at this time, is the hardest for 
physicists
    to accept: nuclear reactions apparently do occur in deuterium-loaded 
Pd, Ti,
    and probably in other solids." [Rehn, V., Ahmad, I., "The Third 
International
    Conference on Cold Fusion", Scientific Information Bulletin, Office of
    Naval Research Asian Office, NAVSO P-3580, Vol. 18, Jan. 1993]


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 05:41:57 2001
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From: harvey norris <harvich yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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--- Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com> wrote:

>    Cold fusion by any other name, remains what it is
> - an interesting
> phenomenon which is nuclear and involves a lattice,
> and is consistent
> with conventional physics.
>   Cold fusion involves nuclear reactions near
> ambient temperature (for the 
> whole lattice)
> with the de novo production of helium-4 observed if
> the material is loaded, 
> active,
> does not fragment, and if the system is driven at
> the optimal operating point.
> 
>     Dr. Mitchell Swartz
At a cold fusion seminar at Kent State University
years ago, They were talking about neutron counts from
curing cement. The Hoover Dam when formed generated
intense amounts of heat that had to be removed via
piping of coolant. Is it possible that the heat from
curing cement is in excess to that made by chemical
reaction, and that some of this heat is actually a
form of cold fusion? HDN

=====
Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost.com/teslafy/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 06:47:00 2001
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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 05:56:59 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: the names of cold fusion
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At 8:27 AM 8/17/1, Mitchell Swartz wrote:

>  Cold fusion involves nuclear reactions near ambient temperature (for the
>whole lattice)
>with the de novo production of helium-4 observed if the material is loaded,
>active,
>does not fragment, and if the system is driven at the optimal operating point.


This definition seems way too restrictive.  Fusion can of course involve
more than just the production of Helium-4 and also inputs other than
deuterium, and cold in this context can mean "not hot" like conventional
fusion, i.e. much less than 20 kEV hot to produce significant reaction
rates.  Also, if the definition is restricted to effects observed in the
original Pons and Fleischmann style electrolysis experiments, then more
than fusion may be involved in the creation of the observed excess heat.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 07:18:44 2001
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harvey norris wrote:

> --- Mitchell Swartz <mica world.std.com> wrote:
>
> >    Cold fusion by any other name, remains what it is
> > - an interesting
> > phenomenon which is nuclear and involves a lattice,
> > and is consistent
> > with conventional physics.
> >   Cold fusion involves nuclear reactions near
> > ambient temperature (for the
> > whole lattice)
> > with the de novo production of helium-4 observed if
> > the material is loaded,
> > active,
> > does not fragment, and if the system is driven at
> > the optimal operating point.
> >
> >     Dr. Mitchell Swartz
> At a cold fusion seminar at Kent State University
> years ago, They were talking about neutron counts from
> curing cement. The Hoover Dam when formed generated
> intense amounts of heat that had to be removed via
> piping of coolant. Is it possible that the heat from
> curing cement is in excess to that made by chemical
> reaction, and that some of this heat is actually a
> form of cold fusion? HDN

Neutron emission has only been seen when D2O is used with cement instead of
H2O.  The number of neutrons was so small that excess heat would not be
detected no matter what the amount.

Ed

>
>
> =====
> Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost.com/teslafy/
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 12:08:05 2001
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In the USA you have a garage.  In OZ or NZ, it's your "shed."

   http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/




Entire first Star Wars movie...  as ASCII animation!

   http://www.asciimation.co.nz/


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 14:25:22 2001
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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:06:02 -0500
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From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Joe Champion's back
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Hello Joe;

Good to have you back!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 17 17:55:37 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Aug 17, 2001
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:50:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 17 Aug 01   Washington, DC

1. THE AUGUST EFFECT: MICHAEL GUILLEN MEETS DEEPAK CHOPRA.  With
Congress on its August break and the President in Crawford, TX,
the media is left covering pet stories and the relations between
Prince Charles and Camilla Parker-Bowles.  Even physics stories
get warmed over.  Monday, on ABC's "Downtown," Michael Guillen,
ABC Science Correspondent (WN 3 Apr 98), reported on "the power
of distance healing."  His starting point was a two year-old
study at the Mid America Heart Institute in Kansas City that
claimed remote intercessory prayer by total strangers improved
the health of heart patients .  It was dismissed as statistical
nonsense (WN 29 Oct 99), but Guillen, whose physics PhD is from
Cornell, went deeper.  He consulted Deepak Chopra: "Chopra's book
about God and physics says these praying experiments prove there
are healing forces in nature that science is only beginning to
understand."  Chopra clarified this: "What physicists are saying
to us is that there is a realm of reality that goes beyond the
physical, which we can influence from a distance." To demonstrate
this, Chopra concentrated on a remote video image of Guillen, who
was asked to clear his mind.  Guillen complied effortlessly.

2. DISTANCE HEALING: EARLIER STUDY WAS OVERLOOKED.  Neither the
study of intercessory prayer nor Michael Guillen mentioned any
contrary results, such as Sir John Galton's classic study of
longevity of English monarchs.  Since they head the Church of
England, the daily Order for Morning Prayer includes orisons for
their health and long life, but Galton found no longevity effect
compared to the general population, despite this concentration of
prayers.  OK, so even WN has trouble finding August stories.

3. DEFENSE BUDGET: MAKING ROOM FOR NATIONAL MISSILE DEFENSE.  The
sharp drop in revenues due to the economic slowdown, coupled with
the high cost of National Missile Defense and a tax refund, is
making it difficult to keep defense spending within the strict
limits of the Procrustean bed Congress itself created.  There has
been talk of major force reductions involving warships, aircraft
wings or army divisions, but the Washington Post reported today
that Secretary Rumsfeld may let the military branches themselves
decide which body parts they would prefer to have lopped off.

4. OMB BOSS STRUGGLES TO KEEP LID ON SPENDING: Mitchell Daniels,
Director of the Office of Management and Budget, has been
sparring with members of Congress on both sides of the aisle to
keep federal spending in check.  The White House had planned to
use the massive tax cut as a tool to cap appropriations.  Trouble
is the anemic economy has so eroded federal revenues that the
Medicare surplus is now in jeopardy.  So Daniels has begun to
jawbone congressional leaders, warning of presidential vetoes if
appropriations bills aren't trimmed back to the level of the
White House request.  September could spell trouble for science.

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.)

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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: off topic:  a man, his shed, and special beer cooler
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:44:22 +1000
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In reply to  William Beaty's message of Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:07:10 -0700:

>
>
>In the USA you have a garage.  In OZ or NZ, it's your "shed."
>
>   http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

Close, but no cigar. We have garages too. A garage being a building the
primary purpose of which is to house a vehicle, though frequently also
used for storage, odd jobs etc. A shed OTOH is a separate building not
intended to house a vehicle, the primary purpose of which is storage.
A workshop has as primary purpose ... well, you can guess that one.



Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 18 19:20:30 2001
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Thank you for the reference to the article by Peter Lindemann
located at http://www.nexusmagazine.com/freeenergy.html
, Where in the world is all of the free energy?. I noticed that a
few potential free energy technologies were not mentioned in
the list of proven free energy technologies, namely, spherical
receivers which receive electromagnetic radiation in patent
5,590,031 by Dr. Mead of Edwards Air force, and generation of
ZPE by means of using a plasma instead of a capacitor in
radiant energy of Tesla to build up enough energy to break or
match resonant frequencies of ZPE vacuums in the
zitterbewegung frequencies of ZPE vacuum and the quarks and
electrons in electrodynamics, as in the patent for negative
entropy, U.S. patent 6, 271, 614. Also there are the Dirac
magentic monopole ether theories  which Bearden seems to be
using in his technologies as summarized by Georges Lochak,
Foundation Louis de Broglie, Paris, The symmetry between
electricity and magnetism and the problem of the existence of a
magnetic monopole. There is also a web site  at
http://MotionSciences.org which lists recent research papers by
Nasa in current quantum ZPE theories, which was extremely
helpful in giving exact resonant frequencies and energies for
ZPE and quarks, as well as details of the relations between
acceleration, ZPE vacuum, and counter motions of inertia, and
momentum, and gravity.  

I also received an email which stated that the U.S. patent office
takes free energy patents which really work and hides them in a
secret vault and does not give patent numbers to the applicants,
and then the applicants are placed on a secret list and harassed
by a secret police, and their labs are broken into? If this is true, it is
unfortunate that our government is following such a destructive
policy, which will allow only other nations states such as the
UK and Russian to develop such free energy technologies
officially. 

Perhaps our government wants to change its economics to the
economics of Adam Smith in his true and pure market
economy, by encouraging destructive policies of repression of
technologies  which would force our economy to change from
corrupt capitalism, since our economy may not do so well
without free energy, and our economy would have to change to
Adam Smith's, decentralized  market economy, after a
depression?


Respectfully,


Thomas Clark
www.rfhweb.com\personal
tom rhfweb.com



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Thank you for the reference to the article by Peter Lindemann
<BR>located at http://www.nexusmagazine.com/freeenergy.html
<BR>, Where in the world is all of the free energy?. I noticed that a
<BR>few potential free energy technologies were not mentioned in
<BR>the list of proven free energy technologies, namely, spherical
<BR>receivers which receive electromagnetic radiation in patent
<BR>5,590,031 by Dr. Mead of Edwards Air force, and generation of
<BR>ZPE by means of using a plasma instead of a capacitor in
<BR>radiant energy of Tesla to build up enough energy to break or
<BR>match resonant frequencies of ZPE vacuums in the
<BR>zitterbewegung frequencies of ZPE vacuum and the quarks and
<BR>electrons in electrodynamics, as in the patent for negative
<BR>entropy, U.S. patent 6, 271, 614. Also there are the Dirac
<BR>magentic monopole ether theories &nbsp;which Bearden seems to be
<BR>using in his technologies as summarized by Georges Lochak,
<BR>Foundation Louis de Broglie, Paris, The symmetry between
<BR>electricity and magnetism and the problem of the existence of a
<BR>magnetic monopole. There is also a web site &nbsp;at
<BR>http://MotionSciences.org which lists recent research papers by
<BR>Nasa in current quantum ZPE theories, which was extremely
<BR>helpful in giving exact resonant frequencies and energies for
<BR>ZPE and quarks, as well as details of the relations between
<BR>acceleration, ZPE vacuum, and counter motions of inertia, and
<BR>momentum, and gravity. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>I also received an email which stated that the U.S. patent office
<BR>takes free energy patents which really work and hides them in a
<BR>secret vault and does not give patent numbers to the applicants,
<BR>and then the applicants are placed on a secret list and harassed
<BR>by a secret police, and their labs are broken into? If this is true, it is
<BR>unfortunate that our government is following such a destructive
<BR>policy, which will allow only other nations states such as the
<BR>UK and Russian to develop such free energy technologies
<BR>officially. 
<BR>
<BR>Perhaps our government wants to change its economics to the
<BR>economics of Adam Smith in his true and pure market
<BR>economy, by encouraging destructive policies of repression of
<BR>technologies &nbsp;which would force our economy to change from
<BR>corrupt capitalism, since our economy may not do so well
<BR>without free energy, and our economy would have to change to
<BR>Adam Smith's, decentralized &nbsp;market economy, after a
<BR>depression?
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Respectfully,
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>www.rfhweb.com\personal
<BR>tom rhfweb.com
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_59.edd7b5a.28b07c28_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 18 20:35:04 2001
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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:40:09 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: off topic:  a man, his shed, and special beer cooler
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Robin:

Sometimes surprising how similar English is all over the world and how 
different it can be just traveling 200 or 300K

Lets compare...

The Garage is where I keep my car (car outside laboratory inside)
The "Shed" is where I keep the lawn mower and other yard care tools (and 
some of the chemicals that are not safe for the garage)
The "workshop" is the thing I don't have but those who do have tend to keep 
there laboratory in the "workshop" there and keep there car inside the 
garage.  :-)
The "house" is where I keep my wife (although actually keeping her there is 
a game for a fool)

If I did not have a wife I would likely keep the car in the garage the 
laboratory in the house and hire a kid from down the street to mow the lawn 
giving me more room to keep chemicals in the shed.

A "neutrino" is the name for a modified subatomic particle at least here in 
Fort Worth.  200K south, about a hundred miles or so.  A neutrino is a 
furry critter that hangs around in the swamps. (swamp rat) An armadillo is 
sort of a armor plated neutrino (um - the rat version).  Here we call that 
a "Texas speed bump".  The black furry critter with the white stripe is a 
"Giant Stripe-ed Texas Sequel" or "pole cat".  Although I have herd them 
referred to as a "skunk".

There are some parts of English (US) that I fail to understand although I 
was born and raised here.

A trail is a path that is sometimes called a road. A road is usually paved 
and sometimes called a trail. A street is a minor road that is sometimes 
major. An avenue is a major road that is sometimes minor.  (I could go on 
ad nauseam) Any way to get in to my neighborhood I drive on a parkway but 
when I get home I park on a driveway.

Do you share this backward confusion?

All yall have fun ya hear.


At 03:44 PM 8/18/01 +1000, you wrote:
>In reply to  William Beaty's message of Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:07:10 -0700:
>
> >
> >
> >In the USA you have a garage.  In OZ or NZ, it's your "shed."
> >
> >   http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/
>
>Close, but no cigar. We have garages too. A garage being a building the
>primary purpose of which is to house a vehicle, though frequently also
>used for storage, odd jobs etc. A shed OTOH is a separate building not
>intended to house a vehicle, the primary purpose of which is storage.
>A workshop has as primary purpose ... well, you can guess that one.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Robin van Spaandonk
>
>http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
>A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
>http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 18 21:08:04 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: off topic:  a man, his shed, and special beer cooler
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:06:34 +1000
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In reply to  Charles Ford's message of Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:40:09 -0500:
[snip]
>Do you share this backward confusion?
[snip]
You win <g>.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 18 21:17:14 2001
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Current  Loop "Quark" Model and Gravity
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:13:24 -0500
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To Vortex:

The Gravitational Force (Fg) between two quarks, (m1) at 1.0 meter separation:

Fg = G*(m1)^2 = 6.67E-11(5.53E-28)^2/R^2 = 2.0E-65 nt

The Electrostatic Force (Fes) between two quarks at 1.0 meter separation:
Fes = k*q^2 = (1/4(pi)eo)(q^2)/R^2 = 2.305E-28  nt

Thus Fes/Fg = 2.305E-28/2.0E-65 = 1.13E37

But, (Fes/Fg)^12 = 1.13E37^1/2 = 3.36E18 = 1/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2
AND:
The Magnetic Force (Fm)between two quarks (M1)at 1.0 meter separation:

Fm = km(M1)^2 = 1.0E-7(qc)^2/R^2 = 2.305E-28 nt
The Same as Fes.
IOW, Fm/Fg =1.13E37 = Fes/Fg

Then: (Fm/Fg)^1/2 = 1.13E37^1/2 = 3.36E18 = 1/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2

Which indicates that the Accelerated Frames associated with quark spin mvr = 1/2hbar
act independently of one another, thus the Gravity Force between two Accelerated
Frames is dictated by the product of the reciprocal of their Gamma Factors.

q = CV = (+/-) 1.602E-19 coulombs (a constant)

V = 2 mc^2/q   volts

C = mc^2/0.5V^2 = 2.56E-28  farad

E = mc^2 = 0.5CV^2 = 0.5LI^2 = 5.0E-11  joule

R = k(CV)^2/mc^2  = 4.6E-18 meters

k = 1/4(pi)eo

I (undilated) = q/t =1.6E-19/1.0E-25 = 1.6E6 amperes

I (time-dilated) =1.6E6/3.36E18 = 5.0E-13 amperes

L = mc^2/0.5I^2 = 3.9E-23  henry

Z (internal) = (L/C0^1/2) = 390 ohms (space = 377)

f =  (1/LC)^1/2 = 1.0E25   hertz

t (undilated) = (LC)^1/2 = 2(pi)R/c = 1.0E-25 seconds

t (dilated) 1.0E-25/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2 = 3.36E-7 seconds

Regards,   Frederick

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 19 02:18:08 2001
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 01:28:09 -0900
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Current  Loop "Quark" Model and Gravity
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At 10:13 PM 8/18/1, Frederick Sparber wrote:

>The Magnetic Force (Fm)between two quarks (M1)at 1.0 meter separation:
>
>Fm = km(M1)^2 = 1.0E-7(qc)^2/R^2 = 2.305E-28 nt


What is M1?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 19 06:36:12 2001
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Subject: Re: Current  Loop "Quark" Model and Gravity
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Horace Heffner" <hheffner mtaonline.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: Current Loop "Quark" Model and Gravity

Hi Horace. you wrote:


> At 10:13 PM 8/18/1, Frederick Sparber wrote:
> 
> >The Magnetic Force (Fm)between two quarks (M1)at 1.0 meter separation:
> >
> >Fm = km(M1)^2 = 1.0E-7(qc)^2/R^2 = 2.305E-28 nt
> 
> 
> What is M1?

M1 is the "Magnetic Moment" in Ampere-Meters.

I.E., Coulombs (q) x  (c) Meters/sec = Ampere-Meters. No?

Regards,  Frederick
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner          
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 19 07:38:03 2001
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From: "Frederick Sparber" <fjsparber earthlink.net>
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Subject: Fw: Addendum, Current Loop "Quark" Model and Gravity
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Subject: Re: Addendum, Current Loop "Quark" Model and Gravity


> The Gravitational Force (Fg) between two quarks, (m1) at 1.0 meter separation:
>
> Fg = G*(m1)^2 = 6.67E-11(5.53E-28)^2/R^2 = 2.0E-65 nt
>
> The Electrostatic Force (Fes) between two quarks at 1.0 meter separation:
> Fes = k*q^2 = (1/4(pi)eo)(q^2)/R^2 = 2.305E-28  nt
>
> Thus Fes/Fg = 2.305E-28/2.0E-65 = 1.13E37
>
> But, (Fes/Fg)^12 = 1.13E37^1/2 = 3.36E18 = 1/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2
> AND:
> The Magnetic Force (Fm)between two quarks (M1)at 1.0 meter separation:
>
> M1 = Ampere-Meters
>
> Fm = km(M1)^2 = 1.0E-7(qc)^2/R^2 = 2.305E-28 nt
> The Same as Fes.
> IOW, Fm/Fg =1.13E37 = Fes/Fg
>
> Then: (Fm/Fg)^1/2 = 1.13E37^1/2 = 3.36E18 = 1/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2
>
> Which indicates that the Accelerated Frames associated with quark spin mvr = 1/2hbar
> act independently of one another, thus the Gravity Force between two Accelerated
> Frames is dictated by the product of the reciprocal of their Gamma Factors.
>
> Current Loop Particle/Quarks Particulars
>
> q = CV = (+/-) 1.602E-19 coulombs (a constant)
>
> V = 2 mc^2/q   volts
>
> C = mc^2/0.5V^2 = 2.56E-28  farad
>
> E = mc^2 = 0.5CV^2 = 0.5LI^2 = 5.0E-11  joule
>
> R = k(CV)^2/mc^2  = 4.6E-18 meters
>
> k = 1/4(pi)eo
>
> I (undilated) = q/t =1.6E-19/1.0E-25 = 1.6E6 amperes
>
> I (time-dilated) =1.6E6/3.36E18 = 5.0E-13 amperes
>
> L = mc^2/0.5I^2 = 3.9E-23  henry
>
> Z (internal) = (L/C0^1/2) = 390 ohms (space = 377)
>
> f =  (1/LC)^1/2 = 1.0E25   hertz
>
> t (undilated) = (LC)^1/2 = 2(pi)R/c = 1.0E-25 seconds
>
> t (dilated) 1.0E-25/(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2 = 3.36E-7 seconds
>
> There are 5A - 2Z  Current Loops or Quarks in any Nucleus:
>
> 2A "up" or positive
> 2A - Z "down" or negative
>   A - Z  antineutrinos
>
> And Z external  Electrons.
>
> For the proton: 1H1,  5A - 2Z = 3 current loops or quarks:
> 2A up (+)  = 2
> 2A - Z down  (-) = 1
>   A - Z antineutrinos = 1 -1 = 0
>
> Net spin = 1/2,  Net charge = +1
> Z external Electrons = -1
>
> For the Neutron: oN1,  5A - 2Z = 5
> 2A = 2 up (+) = 2
> 2A - Z down (-) = 2 - 0 = 2
>   A - Z antineutrinos = 1 - 0 = 1
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 19 09:00:31 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
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Subject: Hutchison-effect photos
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See below.

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:45:25 
From: jukka kinnunen <misterjukka hotmail.com>
To: billb eskimo.com
Cc: mail nulife.de
Subject: Hi all those are be interest of Hutchison meeting

19.august 2001

See of  that link, you can see at Hutchinson Residense pictures those
pick up, my friend at 1 - 8. august 2001 during meet with John Hutchison in 
Vancouver Canada.

http://www.guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/John/


Regards  Mr.Jukka Kinnunen   e-mail: misterjukka hotmail.com

      FINLAND


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 19 09:53:16 2001
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Subject: Re: Hutchison-effect photos
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1010819085920.6904C-100000 eskimo.com>
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Here are a few other URL's on Hutchison:
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/main.html
http://paranormal.about.com/msub29hutchison.htm?once=true&
http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/apr/m05-001.shtml

William Beaty wrote:
> 
> See below.
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:45:25
> From: jukka kinnunen <misterjukka hotmail.com>
> To: billb eskimo.com
> Cc: mail nulife.de
> Subject: Hi all those are be interest of Hutchison meeting
> 
> 19.august 2001
> 
> See of  that link, you can see at Hutchinson Residense pictures those
> pick up, my friend at 1 - 8. august 2001 during meet with John Hutchison in
> Vancouver Canada.
> 
> http://www.guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/John/
> 
> Regards  Mr.Jukka Kinnunen   e-mail: misterjukka hotmail.com
> 
>       FINLAND
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 19 09:54:50 2001
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:04:57 -0900
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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Current  Loop "Quark" Model and Gravity
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At 7:32 AM 8/19/1, Frederick Sparber wrote:

>> >The Magnetic Force (Fm)between two quarks (M1)at 1.0 meter separation:
>> >
>> >Fm = km(M1)^2 = 1.0E-7(qc)^2/R^2 = 2.305E-28 nt
>>
>>
>> What is M1?
>
>M1 is the "Magnetic Moment" in Ampere-Meters.
>
>I.E., Coulombs (q) x  (c) Meters/sec = Ampere-Meters. No?


No, I don't think so.  The dipole magnetic moment is given by:

   mu = N i A

where N is number of turns, i is current, and A is area of the circular
current.  I think you have a copy of Halliday and Resnick, so you can check
this out in section 33-4 "Torque on a Current Loop", which in my edition is
on page 731 ff, and the moment is given on page 734.

In the case of the proposed string quark, where N = 1, we thus have moment M1:

  M1 = i A

and the units of M1 are not in ampere-meters, but rather ampere-meter^2.
Given that the string radius is r, we have:

   A = Pi r^2

so:

   M1 = Pi r^2 i

The magnetic field of a current loop declines as the inverse cube of
distance and the force between two magnetic loops declines as the inverse
of the forth power.  Given that a current loop of radius r has magnetic
moment M = Pi r^2 i, then the force between two current loops of magnetic
moments M1 and M2 sharing a common axis and at distance R much greater than
either loop radius is

   Fm = 3 mu0 M1 M2/(2 Pi R^4)

and is given in newtons when SI units are used.

Note the the force must decline in a 1/R^4 manner for the (r^2)(r^2) units
to cancel out.  This leaves a force in the form:

   Fm = 3 mu0  (Pi r^2 i)^2/(2 Pi R^4)

   Fm = 3/2 Pi Mu0 i^2  (r/R)^4

where at your sample distance of 1 meter the ratio r/R might be assumed to
be a constant.   You can compute r given the known force at 1 meter.  The
constant mu0 is 1.25663706144x10^-6 N/A^2.

To obtain a gravitational force, which is a 1/R^2 force, the apparent
string radius r must increase as the square of the distance between any two
interacting strings.  If one is under the assumption there is only one
string radius for a given string, this is a problem.  It might be assumed,
considering the deBroglie wavelength varies with velocity, that the string
DOES present differing apparent lengths to differing observers based on
their separation.  However, for a magnetic description of gravity to work
out, i.e. that apparent string diameter varies with the square of the
separation of the observers, that relation is clearly not based on their
relative velocity like the deBroglie wavelength.  This makes for a
confusing model of the universe to say the least.  However, merely because
it is confusing is no reason to reject it without some other basis.  One
basis is that there is no other theoretical evidence or experimental
evidence (at least to my knowledge) that this is so. It may be interesting
to pursue that assumption and see what develops.  When one false assumption
is made, amazing deductons can sometimes be made, so right or wrong, it
might be interesting.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,539143,00.html

'Star Trek' shields to protect supertanks 

Robin McKie, science editor Sunday 
August 19, 2001 
The Observer 

Scientists are developing super-tanks which would use powerful magnets
to melt and destroy incoming missiles and shells.

Each vehicle would be covered in 'smart armour' using electrical fields,
instead of thick metal, to give protection against anti-tank weapons.
The technology, which is being perfected by defence researchers on both
sides of the Atlantic, would transform armoured-vehicle construction. 

Current machines, such as Britain's Challenger tank, weigh more than 60
tonnes because they have to carry plating that is more than 2ft thick.
Such vehicles require massive amounts of fuel and other supplies, and
cause logistical headaches when being transported to conflict zones, say
military experts. 

But a tank that relied on electromagnetic pulses, instead of plating, to
provide a shield against missiles would weigh a modest 20 tonnes. A
fleet would form a light but powerful rapid deployment force, and would
transform Western nations' ability to take international military
action.

Smart-armour research is treated as highly confidential by military
officials and manufacturers. A Ministry of Defence spokesman would only
confirm that projects aimed at transforming tank construction - part of
the Army's Future Land Command project - were taking place. 'Developing
technologies that will cut back on armour weight are a key part of that
research,' he added. 

However, scientists at the US Army Research Laboratory in Aberdeen,
Maryland, have now revealed details of how smart armour would work. 

According to research published in the current issue of New Scientist,
each tank would be covered with tiles made of strong plas tic under
which a sandwich of different materials would be installed. First there
would be a mat of optical fibres, then a thin sheet of standard armour
plating, and underneath that would lie a series of metal coils. 

When an anti-tank shell explodes on standard armour, the copper cone of
its head is projected as a powerful jet of metal that travels at five
miles a second. This jet focuses an immense amount of energy on a tiny
area and so can slice easily through several feet of dense metal,
causing devastation inside a tank. 

However, on striking smart armour a shell would produce a very different
reaction. Firstly, it would sever optical cables in the mat below the
tank's outer plastic cover. This would trigger sensors to activate
electrical capacitors inside the tank which would send a mighty
electrical current surging through the metal coils at the base of the
smart armour. 

A massive electromagnetic field would be created inside the armour, as
the high-velocity copper jet begins to pass through it. This field would
induce electrical currents in the copper. 

'If you get enough current into the copper, you can heat it up and start
pinching it in certain regions, making it unstable,' states Mike
Zoltowski, of the Army Research Laboratory, in the New Scientist
article. The thin copper jet would be flattened and broadened out and so
would be unable to cut through the thin standard plating at the base of
the smart armour. 

Essentially, electromagnets would be used to dissipate the energy of an
anti-tank missile or shell, like the force shields that protect the
fictional Starship Enterprise. 

'This kind of development is now seen as urgent by military planners,'
Chris Foss, editor of Jane's Armour and Artillery, said. 'For example,
some countries are working on "top attack" missiles which fly over the
turret of an oncoming tank instead of striking it front on, where it is
most strongly shielded. They would drop their payloads on the tank's
relatively unprotected turret area.' 

To protect against that, designers would be forced to add even more
thick armour plating to these other parts of the tank, adding to its
weight and fuel consumption and making it more unwieldy. The answer is
magnetic pulses, says Zoltowski. 'The benefit is that you wouldn't need
800 millimetres of steel armour.' 

<end article>

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Subject: SED Zero Point Field frequency, other properties, and Casimir Measures
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SED Zero Point Field frequency, other properties, and Casimir
Measures

According to the article Physics of the Zero-Point Field,
Implications for Inertia, Gravitation, and Mass by Bernhard
Haish, Lockheed Martin and others, posted at the
http://motionsciences.org web site under publications,
Statistical Electrodynamics (SED), postulates a second
radiation field Zero Point Field which Classical Electrodynamics
does not recognize.

I have summarized and paraphrased the information and facts
from the above article and other articles on ZPF and Occult
Ether physics to come up with the exact frequencies,
wavelengths, energies, and measures for ZPF fields below:

Classical Electrodynamics: (1 radiation field)
    Normal electromagnetic fields originating from stars and
        the Big Bang.
SED - Statistical Electrodynamics radiation fields)
        Normal electromagnetic fields originating from
            stars and the Big Bang.
        Uniform isotropic background electromagnetic
            zero point field. 

The ZPF field has the following properties:

ZPF is light waves, a Lorentz invariant, a universal frame of rest
    for acceleration but not for rectilinear motion.
ZPF is absolute space with respect to acceleration but not rest
    or motion, to explain inertial accelerations
The ZPF spectrum is a Lorentz invariant, and has no drag force
    as does the ordinary radiation field due to the Doppler
    shift which increases the drag strength of the radiation
    field in the direction of motion and decreases it   
    in the opposite direction.. Electrons are not significantly
    accelerated by ZPF-induced zitterbewegung, where as
    protons and nuclei are accelerated.
ZPF cannot be seen visibly, since ZPF is isotropic and
    homogenous in its spacial distributions.
    Dipole transitions in ZPF absorb and re-emit isotropic
    v^3 radiation without change in spatial or spectral
    distribution.
ZPF can not be directly observed, only deviations above ZPF
    are measurable. 

The ZPF can be measured as follows:

ZPF can be measured by correlation to interference effects,
inteferometry. In atoms and molecules the absorption and
reemission of the ZPF radiation results in the generation of
secondary short-range fields, that result in short range
forces or van der Waals forces. The attractive quantum force,
the Casimir force between dielectric or conducting plates can be
calculated and measured due to the absorption and emission of
ZPF radiation by the plates results in interference and
cancellation of  certain electromagnetic modes between the
plates. ZPF radiation can be inferred from the consequences of
Casimir force inteferometry.

Frequencies, Wave lengths, and Energies of ZPF

Equations used for calculations:

The SED version of  the Plank and Bohr updated correct form
for the average energy of the zero-point electromagnetic
fluctuations to 1/2 hv instead of the hv value
assumed by Einstein/stern results in the equation, 

p(v,T)dv = 8pie v^2/c^3 (hv/e^hv/kT-1 + hv/2)dv

Pzp(v) = Integral [0 to v sub c] 4 pie hv^3/c^3 dv.
where v sub c is a presumed higher frequency cutoff, or Planks
frequency v sub p = (c^5, Gh)^1/2 = 1.9 x 10^43 Hz. 

Also a harmonic oscillator must have a minimum energy of
hw/2, where h is Planck constant divided by 2 pie,, and w is the
oscillation frequency in units of radians per second. This is also
the zero point energy of a harmonic oscillator.(Other
References 1 below )

The frequencies, and other properties of ZPF may be calculated
from the above equations as shown below:

10^9 Hz frequency, 10^10 cm wavelength, 10^5 eV

Classical Radiation Field
    The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
    (CMBR) = 53     GHz-frequency middle band of the
    COBE Differential   Microwave Radiometer
    CMBR=53,000,000,000Hz

Zero Point Radiation Field
    The ZPF has a ratio of pzpf/pcmbr=0.77. So that ZPF
    radiation = 40,810,000,000Hz = 53,000,000,000Hz x
    0.77. 

    pzp = 2 pie^2c^7/G^2h in the order of 10^116 ergs   
        cm^-3 x^-1..
    ZPF cut off point:
        Planks frequency which the highest possible     
        frequency in nature:
        v = (c^5/Gh)^1/2 ~ 1.9x 10^43Hz.
    ZPF resonant frequency:
        Compton frequency: v= m sub e c^2/h =1.236
        x 10^20 Hz.

Visible Light 10^15 Hz frequency, 10^-5 cm wavelength, 10^1
eV.

Zitterbewegung 10^24 Hz frequency, ~10^-10 cm wavelength,
10^-15eV
    Frequency  of electron = 6.25x10^24

Planks frequency v = (c^5/Gh)^1/2 ~ 1.9x 10^43Hz, ~10^-35
    cm wavelength , 10^-30ev.

Atomic Inteferometers may measure down to 10^-41m in
wavelength.

According to Occult Ether Physics by 
William Lyne 1997, J.A. Wheeler, Geometrodynamics, 
Academic Press, N.Y. 1962, "measured the energy density of 
ZPR at 10^94 gram/cm^3, for individual fluctuations of random 
ZPR, on the scale of the Plank length (10^-33 cm.), by means of 
a standard radiation detector, the frequency response of which 
was specially altered to extend into the super high frequency 
spectrum involved. " Pg 19

According to Burkhard Heim, Protosimplex, Geometrical
understandings of elementary particles posted at
http://people.blinx.de/behemoth/protosimplex/posdzech/px_g_t 
eilchen_e.htm, .the smallest possible geometrical 
unit of empty space is the metron which is 6.15 * 10^-70 m^2. 

Other References:

1. Toward An Interstelar Mission: Zeroing in on the Zero-Point
Field Inertia Resonance, by Bernhard Haisch and Alfonso
Rueda, posted at the http://motionsciences.org web site.

Respectfully,

Thomas Clark
www.rhfweb.com\personal
tom rhfweb.com


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>SED Zero Point Field frequency, other properties, and Casimir
<BR>Measures
<BR>
<BR>According to the article Physics of the Zero-Point Field,
<BR>Implications for Inertia, Gravitation, and Mass by Bernhard
<BR>Haish, Lockheed Martin and others, posted at the
<BR>http://motionsciences.org web site under publications,
<BR>Statistical Electrodynamics (SED), postulates a second
<BR>radiation field Zero Point Field which Classical Electrodynamics
<BR>does not recognize.
<BR>
<BR>I have summarized and paraphrased the information and facts
<BR>from the above article and other articles on ZPF and Occult
<BR>Ether physics to come up with the exact frequencies,
<BR>wavelengths, energies, and measures for ZPF fields below:
<BR>
<BR>Classical Electrodynamics: (1 radiation field)
<BR>    Normal electromagnetic fields originating from stars and
<BR>        the Big Bang.
<BR>SED - Statistical Electrodynamics radiation fields)
<BR>        Normal electromagnetic fields originating from
<BR>            stars and the Big Bang.
<BR>        Uniform isotropic background electromagnetic
<BR>            zero point field. 
<BR>
<BR>The ZPF field has the following properties:
<BR>
<BR>ZPF is light waves, a Lorentz invariant, a universal frame of rest
<BR>    for acceleration but not for rectilinear motion.
<BR>ZPF is absolute space with respect to acceleration but not rest
<BR>    or motion, to explain inertial accelerations
<BR>The ZPF spectrum is a Lorentz invariant, and has no drag force
<BR>    as does the ordinary radiation field due to the Doppler
<BR>    shift which increases the drag strength of the radiation
<BR>    field in the direction of motion and decreases it   
<BR>    in the opposite direction.. Electrons are not significantly
<BR>    accelerated by ZPF-induced zitterbewegung, where as
<BR>    protons and nuclei are accelerated.
<BR>ZPF cannot be seen visibly, since ZPF is isotropic and
<BR>    homogenous in its spacial distributions.
<BR>    Dipole transitions in ZPF absorb and re-emit isotropic
<BR>    v^3 radiation without change in spatial or spectral
<BR>    distribution.
<BR>ZPF can not be directly observed, only deviations above ZPF
<BR>    are measurable. 
<BR>
<BR>The ZPF can be measured as follows:
<BR>
<BR>ZPF can be measured by correlation to interference effects,
<BR>inteferometry. In atoms and molecules the absorption and
<BR>reemission of the ZPF radiation results in the generation of
<BR>secondary short-range fields, that result in short range
<BR>forces or van der Waals forces. The attractive quantum force,
<BR>the Casimir force between dielectric or conducting plates can be
<BR>calculated and measured due to the absorption and emission of
<BR>ZPF radiation by the plates results in interference and
<BR>cancellation of &nbsp;certain electromagnetic modes between the
<BR>plates. ZPF radiation can be inferred from the consequences of
<BR>Casimir force inteferometry.
<BR>
<BR>Frequencies, Wave lengths, and Energies of ZPF
<BR>
<BR>Equations used for calculations:
<BR>
<BR>The SED version of &nbsp;the Plank and Bohr updated correct form
<BR>for the average energy of the zero-point electromagnetic
<BR>fluctuations to 1/2 hv instead of the hv value
<BR>assumed by Einstein/stern results in the equation, 
<BR>
<BR>p(v,T)dv = 8pie v^2/c^3 (hv/e^hv/kT-1 + hv/2)dv
<BR>
<BR>Pzp(v) = Integral [0 to v sub c] 4 pie hv^3/c^3 dv.
<BR>where v sub c is a presumed higher frequency cutoff, or Planks
<BR>frequency v sub p = (c^5, Gh)^1/2 = 1.9 x 10^43 Hz. 
<BR>
<BR>Also a harmonic oscillator must have a minimum energy of
<BR>hw/2, where h is Planck constant divided by 2 pie,, and w is the
<BR>oscillation frequency in units of radians per second. This is also
<BR>the zero point energy of a harmonic oscillator.(Other
<BR>References 1 below )
<BR>
<BR>The frequencies, and other properties of ZPF may be calculated
<BR>from the above equations as shown below:
<BR>
<BR>10^9 Hz frequency, 10^10 cm wavelength, 10^5 eV
<BR>
<BR>Classical Radiation Field
<BR>    The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
<BR>    (CMBR) = 53     GHz-frequency middle band of the
<BR>    COBE Differential   Microwave Radiometer
<BR>    CMBR=53,000,000,000Hz
<BR>
<BR>Zero Point Radiation Field
<BR>    The ZPF has a ratio of pzpf/pcmbr=0.77. So that ZPF
<BR>    radiation = 40,810,000,000Hz = 53,000,000,000Hz x
<BR>    0.77. 
<BR>
<BR>    pzp = 2 pie^2c^7/G^2h in the order of 10^116 ergs   
<BR>        cm^-3 x^-1..
<BR>    ZPF cut off point:
<BR>        Planks frequency which the highest possible     
<BR>        frequency in nature:
<BR>        v = (c^5/Gh)^1/2 ~ 1.9x 10^43Hz.
<BR>    ZPF resonant frequency:
<BR>        Compton frequency: v= m sub e c^2/h =1.236
<BR>        x 10^20 Hz.
<BR>
<BR>Visible Light 10^15 Hz frequency, 10^-5 cm wavelength, 10^1
<BR>eV.
<BR>
<BR>Zitterbewegung 10^24 Hz frequency, ~10^-10 cm wavelength,
<BR>10^-15eV
<BR>    Frequency &nbsp;of electron = 6.25x10^24
<BR>
<BR>Planks frequency v = (c^5/Gh)^1/2 ~ 1.9x 10^43Hz, ~10^-35
<BR>    cm wavelength , 10^-30ev.
<BR>
<BR>Atomic Inteferometers may measure down to 10^-41m in
<BR>wavelength.
<BR>
<BR>According to Occult Ether Physics by 
<BR>William Lyne 1997, J.A. Wheeler, Geometrodynamics, 
<BR>Academic Press, N.Y. 1962, "measured the energy density of 
<BR>ZPR at 10^94 gram/cm^3, for individual fluctuations of random 
<BR>ZPR, on the scale of the Plank length (10^-33 cm.), by means of 
<BR>a standard radiation detector, the frequency response of which 
<BR>was specially altered to extend into the super high frequency 
<BR>spectrum involved. " Pg 19
<BR>
<BR>According to Burkhard Heim, Protosimplex, Geometrical
<BR>understandings of elementary particles posted at
<BR>http://people.blinx.de/behemoth/protosimplex/posdzech/px_g_t 
<BR>eilchen_e.htm, .the smallest possible geometrical 
<BR>unit of empty space is the metron which is 6.15 * 10^-70 m^2. 
<BR>
<BR>Other References:
<BR>
<BR>1. Toward An Interstelar Mission: Zeroing in on the Zero-Point
<BR>Field Inertia Resonance, by Bernhard Haisch and Alfonso
<BR>Rueda, posted at the http://motionsciences.org web site.
<BR>
<BR>Respectfully,
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>www.rhfweb.com\personal
<BR>tom rhfweb.com
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
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At 1:02 PM 8/19/1, Terry Blanton wrote:

>Scientists are developing super-tanks which would use powerful magnets
>to melt and destroy incoming missiles and shells.


This is one of the dumbest ideas I've seen.  Following a nuclear EMP
methinks the emperor might have no clothes.  Further, a leading piece of
shrapnel or paired shots can be used to sever the optical fibers and
discharge the capacitors prior to the main hit.

I have some much better ideas for armour ... I think.  Of course, most
anyone would.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: ConexTom aol.com
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:51:28 EDT
Subject: From Oil to Electricity & From Deserts to Farms and Forests
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>From Oil to Electricity & From Deserts to Farms and Forests

If world energy industries should focus more on electricity and
alternative methods of generating electricity, then the electricity
can be used to create farms and forests in deserts. Oil countries
which are rich in desert lands, can become rich off of farm lands
and forests, but only with new alternative forms of energy.
Legitimized new alternative forms of energy can also be used to
control weather patterns to turn deserts into farm lands
commercially and legally. Without legitimate alternative
energies this may never be the case. Also legitimate alternative
energies can lead to new privacy and security technologies
which will benefit not only the deserts, and poor, but also the
rich One source of inertia, that can give the world leaders
support to develop alternative energies, even if the probabilities
of the masses of peoples, habits, and trends from the past don't
support the world leaders in the present, is the probabilities of
the masses of peoples in the future may, which may outweigh
the past and create a brand new future for us all, buy supporting
our world leaders today !


Respectively,

Thomas Clark
www.rhfweb.com

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>From Oil to Electricity &amp; From Deserts to Farms and Forests
<BR>
<BR>If world energy industries should focus more on electricity and
<BR>alternative methods of generating electricity, then the electricity
<BR>can be used to create farms and forests in deserts. Oil countries
<BR>which are rich in desert lands, can become rich off of farm lands
<BR>and forests, but only with new alternative forms of energy.
<BR>Legitimized new alternative forms of energy can also be used to
<BR>control weather patterns to turn deserts into farm lands
<BR>commercially and legally. Without legitimate alternative
<BR>energies this may never be the case. Also legitimate alternative
<BR>energies can lead to new privacy and security technologies
<BR>which will benefit not only the deserts, and poor, but also the
<BR>rich One source of inertia, that can give the world leaders
<BR>support to develop alternative energies, even if the probabilities
<BR>of the masses of peoples, habits, and trends from the past don't
<BR>support the world leaders in the present, is the probabilities of
<BR>the masses of peoples in the future may, which may outweigh
<BR>the past and create a brand new future for us all, buy supporting
<BR>our world leaders today !
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Respectively,
<BR>
<BR>Thomas Clark
<BR>www.rhfweb.com</FONT></HTML>

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From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:15:28 -0700
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On Sunday 19 August 2001 14:27, Charlie Hodgson wrote:
> Gee, maybe I'd just change my copper tip to an industrial 
diamond and put
> less charge in the missle, since I don't have that much armour 
to go through
> anymore.
> 
> Great plan, idjuts.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Blanton" <commengr bellsouth.net>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 4:02 PM
> Subject: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
> 
> 
> > 
http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,539143,00.html
> >
> > 'Star Trek' shields to protect supertanks
> >
> > Robin McKie, science editor Sunday
> > August 19, 2001
> > The Observer
> >
> > Scientists are developing super-tanks which would use 
powerful magnets
> > to melt and destroy incoming missiles and shells.
> >
> > Each vehicle would be covered in 'smart armour' using 
electrical fields,
> > instead of thick metal, to give protection against anti-tank 
weapons.
> > The technology, which is being perfected by defence 
researchers on both
> > sides of the Atlantic, would transform armoured-vehicle 
construction.
> >
> > Current machines, such as Britain's Challenger tank, weigh 
more than 60
> > tonnes because they have to carry plating that is more than 
2ft thick.
> > Such vehicles require massive amounts of fuel and other 
supplies, and
> > cause logistical headaches when being transported to 
conflict zones, say
> > military experts.
> >
> > But a tank that relied on electromagnetic pulses, instead of 
plating, to
> > provide a shield against missiles would weigh a modest 20 
tonnes. A
> > fleet would form a light but powerful rapid deployment 
force, and would
> > transform Western nations' ability to take international 
military
> > action.
> >
> > Smart-armour research is treated as highly confidential by 
military
> > officials and manufacturers. A Ministry of Defence spokesman 
would only
> > confirm that projects aimed at transforming tank 
construction - part of
> > the Army's Future Land Command project - were taking place. 
'Developing
> > technologies that will cut back on armour weight are a key 
part of that
> > research,' he added.
> >
> > However, scientists at the US Army Research Laboratory in 
Aberdeen,
> > Maryland, have now revealed details of how smart armour 
would work.
> >
> > According to research published in the current issue of New 
Scientist,
> > each tank would be covered with tiles made of strong plas 
tic under
> > which a sandwich of different materials would be installed. 
First there
> > would be a mat of optical fibres, then a thin sheet of 
standard armour
> > plating, and underneath that would lie a series of metal 
coils.
> >
> > When an anti-tank shell explodes on standard armour, the 
copper cone of
> > its head is projected as a powerful jet of metal that 
travels at five
> > miles a second. This jet focuses an immense amount of energy 
on a tiny
> > area and so can slice easily through several feet of dense 
metal,
> > causing devastation inside a tank.
> >
> > However, on striking smart armour a shell would produce a 
very different
> > reaction. Firstly, it would sever optical cables in the mat 
below the
> > tank's outer plastic cover. This would trigger sensors to 
activate
> > electrical capacitors inside the tank which would send a 
mighty
> > electrical current surging through the metal coils at the 
base of the
> > smart armour.
> >
> > A massive electromagnetic field would be created inside the 
armour, as
> > the high-velocity copper jet begins to pass through it. This 
field would
> > induce electrical currents in the copper.
> >
> > 'If you get enough current into the copper, you can heat it 
up and start
> > pinching it in certain regions, making it unstable,' states 
Mike
> > Zoltowski, of the Army Research Laboratory, in the New 
Scientist
> > article. The thin copper jet would be flattened and 
broadened out and so
> > would be unable to cut through the thin standard plating at 
the base of
> > the smart armour.
> >
> > Essentially, electromagnets would be used to dissipate the 
energy of an
> > anti-tank missile or shell, like the force shields that 
protect the
> > fictional Starship Enterprise.
> >
> > 'This kind of development is now seen as urgent by military 
planners,'
> > Chris Foss, editor of Jane's Armour and Artillery, said. 
'For example,
> > some countries are working on "top attack" missiles which 
fly over the
> > turret of an oncoming tank instead of striking it front on, 
where it is
> > most strongly shielded. They would drop their payloads on 
the tank's
> > relatively unprotected turret area.'
> >
> > To protect against that, designers would be forced to add 
even more
> > thick armour plating to these other parts of the tank, 
adding to its
> > weight and fuel consumption and making it more unwieldy. The 
answer is
> > magnetic pulses, says Zoltowski. 'The benefit is that you 
wouldn't need
> > 800 millimetres of steel armour.'
> >
> > <end article>
> >
> >

Cheers,
	I rather think, old boy, that your idea is akin to Author
Frank Herbert's 'slow missiles' used to defeat personal armor
in his 'Dune' series.  How about using some upgraded form of
Podkletnov's and Ning Li's 'E-Gravity' coils operating in a
saucer shaped craft employing more of the same for levitation
and propulsion and inertial damping for the occupants, all
powered by an intranuclear device based roughly on
Quantum Chromodynamics (not invented yet, but then neither
is the other stuff).  But of course the machine would certainly
not be a tank, but a starship, and one capable of untold
destruction as well with a little imagination and utilization of
energy forms now unknown to us and associated with quark
sized particles much as allegedly took part in the detonation
of a cosmic singularity.  Think of strange or 'charmed' radiation
in the range of 10^26 megawatts as a coherent beam with NO speed 
limit as it will NOT be electromagnetic          .........
............Well, one can dream;  and if one risks neither 
position nor credentials, then one can truly think 'out of the 
box'.

Standing Bear
rockcast net-link.net

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From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
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At 12:15 AM 8/20/1, Standing Bear wrote:

>............Well, one can dream;  and if one risks neither
>position nor credentials, then one can truly think 'out of the
>box'.

Sometimes so true.  The price of free thinking and speaking is often the
price of living outside the comfortable boxes of conformity, acceptance,
and good pay.  To think outside the box you have to live outside the box.
Living as far out of the box as I do, I also see the disadvantage that it
is really easy to criticize others because it is nearly impossible to
achieve anything yourself when living outside the box with no money and no
infrastructure.  It is a lot more difficult when you have to actually
produce yourself.  And yet I still can't resist criticising!  8^)

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


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From: "Charlie Hodgson" <cbh bigfoot.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
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My point was that it is foolish to base an entire defense upon some
attribute that is easily changed. It does sound like a neat system, but it
depends solely upon the projectile being made of copper. Change the tip and
the defense system is useless.

Maybe the diamond was far-fetched, but some strong plastic or maybe that new
Russian stuff that's being touted for energy will do just find. Then we'll
have a fleet of billion dollar tanks that can be taken out by a kid in a
tree.


"Standing Bear" wrote on August 20, 2001 3:15 AM:
> Cheers,
> I rather think, old boy, that your idea is akin to Author
> Frank Herbert's 'slow missiles' used to defeat personal armor
> in his 'Dune' series.  How about using some upgraded form of
> Podkletnov's and Ning Li's 'E-Gravity' coils .........
> On Sunday 19 August 2001 14:27, Charlie Hodgson wrote:
> > Gee, maybe I'd just change my copper tip to an industrial
> > diamond and put less charge in the missle, since I don't
> >  have that much armour  to go through anymore.
> >
> >  "Terry Blanton" wrote on  August 19, 2001 4:02 PM
> > Subject: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
> >
> > http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,539143,00.html



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 07:26:46 2001
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From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:33:49 -0700
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On Monday 20 August 2001 01:15, Horace Heffner wrote:
> At 12:15 AM 8/20/1, Standing Bear wrote:
> 
> >............Well, one can dream;  and if one risks neither
> >position nor credentials, then one can truly think 'out of the
> >box'.
> 
> Sometimes so true.  The price of free thinking and speaking is 
often the
> price of living outside the comfortable boxes of conformity, 
acceptance,
> and good pay.  To think outside the box you have to live 
outside the box.
> Living as far out of the box as I do, I also see the 
disadvantage that it
> is really easy to criticize others because it is nearly 
impossible to
> achieve anything yourself when living outside the box with no 
money and no
> infrastructure.  It is a lot more difficult when you have to 
actually
> produce yourself.  And yet I still can't resist criticising!  
8^)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner

Horace,
	Think about it!  Think back!  Can you name very many
really signifigant breakthrough inventions created by an office
nebish.....a 'Dilbert' if you will?  Can you name even one?  
Remember our American Thomas Edison was an independant
inventor until he made his first breakthrough economically
exploitable device.  
	You will have to realize that workers within any system
are under conformity restraints and can and do lose jobs for 
little or no reason or for unfair reasons (like...'lets hire the 
secretary with the big a__!").  Because of this, no independant
thought in these institutionalized places is tolerated very long.
It is often not even conceived more than momentarily by
employees.  Systems do NOT reform themselves from within
as a general rule, rather they live and die under the rule of
strong managers who act as maladaptable forces of nature,
going extinct often by variations of the same market forces
that gave them rise.  
	Corporate culture is an economic jungle where only
the 'fit' survive very long.  Treachery and sleaze are its
weapons of choice.  Office 'politics' is a game that you do
not have the option to choose not to play.  You either play
or are played,  career flayed, and displayed....going out the
door.  The most vicious infighters and most treacherous
conformists and sycophants are on the fast track for the
top in these places.  Look at the top management of many
large southern companies and you will see one strong leader
of upper middle age, surrounded by a cloud of very lesser
lights, very well dressed, with an almost homosexual demeanor
around the leader.  This is deceptive, as these same lesser
lights can and do act as martinets to their underlings.  I hope
that I am conveying some of the atmosphere of large and
medium sized organizations in illuminating my points.  Even
if you could persuade one of these taipans to go along with
you on an idea of change, the others would leap on first
him, then you, as a pack of rabid wolves smelling blood.....
............yours.
Often corporate (or government, as
companies of a certain size 'x' , every company has their
value, undergo a sea change where everything fresh and
new turns stale and bland so as not to 'offend' one segment
or another of its being) interests will have strict rules about
what research it will carry out and which methods and/or
approaches will be used.  This will be tied to corporate
publicity policies that centralize all interfacement with the
public and with other organizations, public and private.
This centralization  of communication will guarantee 
control and restrict information in or out to a 'trusted'
few very securely loyal to the highest management.  Any
employees that attempt or even discuss going around
this ..."have no future!", to quote the Roman emperors'
admonition to gladiators about to become lion food.

Standing Bear
rockcast net-link.net

Corporate socialism and Stalinism are no different on the ground.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 07:56:21 2001
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:53:30 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
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This is similar to the "explosive reactive armor" developed in the U.S. and 
Israel many years ago. A band of explosive charges is placed around the 
tank turret and in other weak, exposed areas, on top of the steel armor. An 
incoming warhead strikes the explosive charge, which goes off quickly 
enough to vaporize the warhead or at least push it away before it 
penetrates the armor. This sounds improbable but it actually works, in 
tests at least. The detonator timing must be incredibly fast.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 09:55:49 2001
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From: "Mattthew Rogers" <matt accelnet.net>
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Subject: RE: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:54:20 -0700
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Standing Bear,
	In some ways your full of wisdom, but in this case IMHO you are full of (
pick a word )

Your Technological fear is completely unfounded and not even close to the
truth.

Let me describe in full the way anything you download works, even FLASH.

1. You see a hyperlink that you want to click on.
2. You click on it.
3. The hyper link contains the text
www.thatserver.com/ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
4. If Your computer doesn't know where thatserver.com is and needs to look
it up, it looks up the address for you.
5. Your first outbound information asks your local ISP' DNS server to..
"Please tell me what the IP address of thatserver.com is, and send it to me,
by the way my her is my IP address so you know where to send it to."
6. Now your computer sends a request --> TO: "ip address" port 80 ; please
send to me ( here is my IP address ); the file name
;ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
7. Your Software reads ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html line by line and displays
the information.
8. If there is a picture or a sound or any other file that is not included
in the ThisIsWhatYouWanted, YOUR SOFTWARE ASSUMES YOU WANT IT, and Starts
steps 3-7 All Over again.

Now on to stuff your computer cannot read.
1. If your browser cannot display the file, it looks for a hint in the HTML
to find out what it needs to display it.
2. It then will automatically either download it, or ask you for permission
to download it.

Now on to the truth about your web experience.

Spyware: is a term used by people that makes them think that there is
something on their computer reporting to someone else your activity on the
web.

	Now Carefully read the above again, and tell me, Didn't you voluntary send
out information about your activity when you clicked on the HTML ?

I am so Pissed Off at STUPID people it makes my blood boil!

Holy flying  #$(*&%. You DON'T KNOW HOW THE #$%)&*^ing INTERNET WORKS !
Go read the Internet for Dummies or something.

1. When you click on a Hyperlink, to download a file , You have SENT your
request, containing your home IP address assigned to you by your ISP, to
EVERY Router ( could be dozens of them ) between you and the Thatserver.com.
Which can Cache them in a file for a Record of your Visit !
2. Every request you send is in CLEAR TEXT, Anyone can read it, UNLESS you
are on a Secure Web Server !!
3. This Email was send the same way, in Clear text, from this desktop, to a
server, which cached it, spooled it, backed it up and sent it off, to the
next server which did the same thing.
4. There are probably at leat 3-5 copy's of this email on servers somewhere
in the world till it got to you, and if it passed through a large
organization's email servers, it could have a backup hardcopy permanently
recorded on backups.

So in case you didn't know.

1. The Internet is a collection of privately owned companies talking a
universal language.
2. The information that they transfer across their network is Theirs, not
Yours.
3. It was Started by the Government

So, In other words Standing Bear,
	If you are so concerned about your Security and Privacy from one little
program call Flash, which is the DEFACTO standard for displaying quality
Animations on the Web,

UNPLUG YOUR FREAKING COMPUTER



Matthew Rogers

-----Original Message-----
From: Standing Bear [mailto:rockcast net-link.net]
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:15 AM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com; Terry Blanton
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]

Hello all,
        The following letter purports to be on a 'fast track' to
bringing prosperity, sweetness and light to all of us.  In
reallity their aims are a bit more immediate and decidedly down
to earth.  The page that they refer to loads as a black 'nothing'
in the Konqueror browser.  That is because it is all direct X
controls and probably web bugs as well.  I detected no obvious
spyware like cookies;  they are probably too subtle for that.  I
did find, however, that one goes nowhere on their site without
first downloading, and installing, a spyware product called
'Flash 5' !  So the whole thing is a come-on to sucker us
into installing this browser plug-in called 'Flash 5' !!
This used to be, in its earlier incarnations, a useful if
frivolous grafiks player back in the days when all
grafiks were cached first and then played.  Now the graphics
are 'streamed', meaning the program takes control of YOUR
computer that YOU paid for and runs whatever IT likes on
YOUR equipment and YOUR electricity.
        It even installs itself withour your choice or knowledge
of just what files it puts where.  It will not let you download
an executable or a zip file so that you can install it later,
or again if you do an upgrade or component change.  Oh
no!  It arrogantly and rudely does it right away without your
permission or input or ability to intervene save your use of
the power switch.....you DID put an external power strip
on your computer line did you not??!   ...after the digital
monopoly sought to keep you from turning it off when they
initiated the PC-97 ATX standard.....did'nt you?..........and
you DO use an external modem with a hardwired absolute power
switch did'nt you?  Even in the computer age, crooks are
much alike.  Honest folks would provide you with a way to
do these things rather than patronize you and then steal
from you.  Your data, parts of it anyway, are worth money
to every suede shoe boy that ever drew a breath.  Where
do you think all your junk mail comes from, or how certain
government agencies find out that you like sushi.
        Streaming media plug-ins  leave no trace
in your cache, probably covering its tracks while it shows you
'interesting pictures' .  The 'pictures' are probably a
distraction while it is looting your machine of all the data that
it can find like a shoplifter operating in a team....one
distracts whilst the other steals.  Think of it!  If it can
create and destroy files in your machine in one place, which
it HAS to do if it is going to do this 'streaming', it can do
the same in another.  Communication being two way in the
process and instructions to your machine coming from a
foreign 'agent' that has taken it over for the duration of the
'streaming'.........and perhaps MUCH longer....who is to say
that data cannot also be sucked out of your machine as
part of the same process.  NO DOUBT the creaters of this
nonsense will deny the above with a 'smiling face'.
I can hear them now: "Oh !!  I just can't IMAGINE where you got
the idea that we do this.  Do you have PROOF.?
Court proof!!".  Neither did the Laotians that escaped
the killing fields of Angkha Loew (They were going
to go BACK and their bring their smiling torturers to
'willingly' testify! ........no one would ever belief that!)
Those Laotians were just as dead and to this day
the US government has stonewalled on the
real fate of Saloth Sar (Pol Pot)   The
Jews were given similar assurances by the nazis when
they were about to be 'deloused'.
        Thank God I use Linux for browsing.  Linux stops
these schmucks cold.  They can peddle their putz elseware.
.........AND I WILL NEVER DOWNLOAD ANY FLASH 'PLAYER'!
WE KNOW WHO IS BEING PLAYED!!!

Standing Bear






On Thursday 16 August 2001 13:50, Terry Blanton wrote:
> Joe Firmage is now investing in new energy.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Engaging the Future
> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:39:24 -0700
> From: Joe Firmage <joefirmage firmage.org>
> To: firmage_bulletin firmage.org
>
> Hello friend,
>
> You subscribed to my e-mail list at some point in the past
three
> years, and I've rarely taken the liberty of sending you a
> message. But this week marks a special time. It is my pleasure
> today to formally introduce Motion Sciences, a not-for-profit
> advanced physics research and development organization
dedicated
> to pioneering breakthrough technologies for 21st century life.
> After decades of theoretical and experimental physics research,
> parts of which I've had the honor to help sponsor over the past
> three years, scientists around the country are converging to
help
> catalyze a brighter future for all life on Earth. And today, I
am
> asking for your help in this mission. Learn more about Motion
> Sciences at http://MotionSciences.org, and how you can help
> advance our work at http://MotionSciences.org/joinnow.html.
>
> Ad astra,
> Joe Firmage
>
>
> ABOUT MOTION SCIENCES
>
> After several years and millions of dollars invested in
> preparatory work, scientists in several research institutions
> across the United States have come together. The people and
> partners forming Motion Sciences believe that significant
> discoveries in physics may be made within 10 years, discoveries
> of great significance to the future of life on Earth. Explore
> with me a hypothetical future.
>
> Imagine that we discover by 2005 a breakthrough in energy
> generation -- a device that can produce electricity with almost
> no fuel, cost, or waste. Imagine limitless conversion of
seawater
> to fresh water by 2015. Imagine that by 2025 we no longer need
an
> electricity grid. Imagine a pollution-free atmosphere by 2030.
> Imagine a permanent end to the growing snarls of freeway
traffic
> by 2040. Imagine a society which recognizes a human right to
move
> about as freely as the goods of its economy -- across any
border,
> any time; or a reusable transportation vehicle that can take
you
> into Space, driven by a field of force rather than ejection of
> propellant. Finally imagine a green Africa with a vibrant
society
> of human and natural life in 2051.
>
> Sounds like science fiction, doesn't it? In fact, the vision
> described above portrays precisely the kind of future emerging
> from the implications of some of the best physics research
> underway in the world today. A group of talented scientists and
> engineers began quiet collaboration a few years ago, and have
now
> publicly joined forces in and with Motion Sciences, bringing
> essential collaboration to a very challenging set of research
and
> development projects, a collaboration that we hope can soon
> extend to engage complementary teams around the world.
>
> In the process of forming this particular organization, we
> considered for many months what kind of structure it should
have.
> Should Motion Sciences be a commercial, venture-capital backed
> company? We tested this idea briefly, but more important in our
> considerations, however, is the principle of what this mission
is
> all about, and it isn't about an IPO. Our mission is about the
> possibility of sharing with the world one day tools that could
> reverse environmental decline, end starvation and poverty, and
> make wars a horror of the past.
>
> Our mission is about helping to enable a renewal of human
> civilization, and Nature as a whole.
>
> Our mission is about the possibility that we will someday be
able
> to explore the Milky Way Galaxy in an interstellar spacecraft.
>
> Our mission is about scientific knowledge that shouldn't be
owned
> by a commercial corporation.
>
> Motion Sciences Organization is therefore truly a public
> enterprise -- and if we're successful, the proceeds yielded
from
> technologies sponsored by Motion Sciences will be given back to
> humanity through select philanthropies. As a not-for-profit
> 501(c)3, our success in these missions will be dependent upon
the
> support of visionary institutional sponsors and citizens of
> Earth. People like you. We have a goal for the 2001 calendar
> year: engaging the support of 100,000 citizens of Earth,
becoming
> members of the Motion Sciences Community.
>
> On behalf of a rare and talented network of highly credentialed
> and rigorous scientists, engineers, and the teams assisting
them,
> I invite you to join with the people and institutional partners
> of Motion Sciences in an historic attempt at a vital mission. I
> cannot imagine a better way for the physics of the 21st century
> to be pioneered, than for citizens from all nations to come
> together and make it so.  Let's join hands around the planet!
>
> Joseph P. Firmage
> Chairman
> Motion Sciences Organization
> http://MotionSciences.org
>
>
>
> *****
>
> You have received this email because you are subscribed to Joe
> Firmage's mailing list.  If you wish to be removed from the
list,
> please send an empty email to
> firmage_bulletin-unsubscribe firmage.org.
>
> Thank you.
>
> *****

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 10:00:15 2001
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From: "Mattthew Rogers" <matt accelnet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:59:20 -0700
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This was Defeated by the warhead having 2 stages.
The first detonated the reactive armor, the second penetrated the tank.

So the designers put on 2 layers, and the Warhead developers put on 3
layers,

Pretty soon the tank wouldn't move, the Plane that carried the Missile
couldn't fly,

And the battle resorted to throwing rocks, Hand to hand fighting, and Judo
Wrestling contests between Champions on wither side.

Matthew Rogers

-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothwell infinite-energy.com]
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 7:54 AM
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor

This is similar to the "explosive reactive armor" developed in the U.S. and
Israel many years ago. A band of explosive charges is placed around the
tank turret and in other weak, exposed areas, on top of the steel armor. An
incoming warhead strikes the explosive charge, which goes off quickly
enough to vaporize the warhead or at least push it away before it
penetrates the armor. This sounds improbable but it actually works, in
tests at least. The detonator timing must be incredibly fast.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 10:21:21 2001
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:20:22 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
In-Reply-To: <01082010334900.03584 tyrannosaur>
References: <v01530500b7a67487e29a [12.21.208.61]>
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Standing Bear wrote:


>         Think about it!  Think back!  Can you name very many
>really signifigant breakthrough inventions created by an office
>nebish.....a 'Dilbert' if you will?

The IBM PC! The machine celebrating its 20th anniversery this month, to 
worldwide acclaim. It was invented by a prototypical group of nebbishes at 
IBM, made from components manufactured by companies like Intel.

Some other examples: insurance, statistics, most humdrum railroad 
technology, airports, air traffic control, streetlights, the telephone 
switching network, freight scheduling systems such as those used by Fed Ex 
and by the engineers who built the pyramids, the electric power 
distribution system, the GPS (built by the U.S. DoD), Hollerith machines, 
computers, the Internet (the DoD again!), sewers, public sanitation, 
landfills, and mass inoculation (mostly nebbish logistics), the transistor 
(Bell Labs is notorious for corporate nebbishism), the integrated circuit, 
fiber optic cable and digital pulse-code modulation (from Britain's 
Standard Telecommunications Laboratories, the British Post Office, Dow 
Corning and other hotbeds of nebbishism), modems, fax machines, fire 
suppression sprinklers and smoke detectors, alnico magnets which are the 
basis for modern telephone sets, high fidelity speakers, and much else 
(invented by T. Mishima at the University of Tokyo).

Shall I go on?

Most of the artifacts of ancient and modern civilization -- nearly 
everything you see when you look around -- was invented by diligent, 
self-effacing drones & nerds doing their jobs in large institutions. Of 
course there have been major breakthroughs from people outside the system. 
But most of those people have been like Wright brothers -- quiet, well 
educated people who were more than qualified to run a mainstream research 
project. Cold fusion may be the most revolutionary discovery in history. It 
was discovered at big, mainstream institutions by pair of men who call 
themselves "painfully conventional." Nearly all quality replications have 
been done at large institutions by scientists like Miles, who does 
everything by the book with unbending military precision.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 12:32:10 2001
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:32:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Mattthew Rogers <matt accelnet.net>
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
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	Simpler:

	If you set at your terminal and go to a www site and want to see
what is there your are using your computer... or the one in the library,
or where ever you are to do, approximately the following:

	A)	Go to the www site
	B)	Say to the www site "I am at computer xxx"
		
		B1)	I would like to see the picture or text you have
		B1)	Will you please send me this

	..The www site then asks... "do I have your permission to send you
some of the information on the server"
	
	C) you respond by saying... "Here is where I am and here is my
address and who I am, please send the information" 

	C-1 through 3,000)

	Now there is a complex series of:


		highly simplified:

 	1-	I am sending..did your get it?
	2-	I got it send again
	3-	I am sending ..did you get it?
	4-	I got it send again


	The whole thing is a two way street..... 

	BOTH ends have to basically not only Agree.... but not make any
severe mistakes!

-------------------------				



On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Mattthew Rogers wrote:

> Standing Bear,
> 	In some ways your full of wisdom, but in this case IMHO you are full of (
> pick a word )
> 
> Your Technological fear is completely unfounded and not even close to the
> truth.
> 
> Let me describe in full the way anything you download works, even FLASH.
> 
> 1. You see a hyperlink that you want to click on.
> 2. You click on it.
> 3. The hyper link contains the text
> www.thatserver.com/ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
> 4. If Your computer doesn't know where thatserver.com is and needs to look
> it up, it looks up the address for you.
> 5. Your first outbound information asks your local ISP' DNS server to..
> "Please tell me what the IP address of thatserver.com is, and send it to me,
> by the way my her is my IP address so you know where to send it to."
> 6. Now your computer sends a request --> TO: "ip address" port 80 ; please
> send to me ( here is my IP address ); the file name
> ;ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
> 7. Your Software reads ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html line by line and displays
> the information.
> 8. If there is a picture or a sound or any other file that is not included
> in the ThisIsWhatYouWanted, YOUR SOFTWARE ASSUMES YOU WANT IT, and Starts
> steps 3-7 All Over again.
> 
> Now on to stuff your computer cannot read.
> 1. If your browser cannot display the file, it looks for a hint in the HTML
> to find out what it needs to display it.
> 2. It then will automatically either download it, or ask you for permission
> to download it.
> 
> Now on to the truth about your web experience.
> 
> Spyware: is a term used by people that makes them think that there is
> something on their computer reporting to someone else your activity on the
> web.
> 
> 	Now Carefully read the above again, and tell me, Didn't you voluntary send
> out information about your activity when you clicked on the HTML ?
> 
> I am so Pissed Off at STUPID people it makes my blood boil!
> 
> Holy flying  #$(*&%. You DON'T KNOW HOW THE #$%)&*^ing INTERNET WORKS !
> Go read the Internet for Dummies or something.
> 
> 1. When you click on a Hyperlink, to download a file , You have SENT your
> request, containing your home IP address assigned to you by your ISP, to
> EVERY Router ( could be dozens of them ) between you and the Thatserver.com.
> Which can Cache them in a file for a Record of your Visit !
> 2. Every request you send is in CLEAR TEXT, Anyone can read it, UNLESS you
> are on a Secure Web Server !!
> 3. This Email was send the same way, in Clear text, from this desktop, to a
> server, which cached it, spooled it, backed it up and sent it off, to the
> next server which did the same thing.
> 4. There are probably at leat 3-5 copy's of this email on servers somewhere
> in the world till it got to you, and if it passed through a large
> organization's email servers, it could have a backup hardcopy permanently
> recorded on backups.
> 
> So in case you didn't know.
> 
> 1. The Internet is a collection of privately owned companies talking a
> universal language.
> 2. The information that they transfer across their network is Theirs, not
> Yours.
> 3. It was Started by the Government
> 
> So, In other words Standing Bear,
> 	If you are so concerned about your Security and Privacy from one little
> program call Flash, which is the DEFACTO standard for displaying quality
> Animations on the Web,
> 
> UNPLUG YOUR FREAKING COMPUTER
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew Rogers
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Standing Bear [mailto:rockcast net-link.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:15 AM
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com; Terry Blanton
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
> 
> Hello all,
>         The following letter purports to be on a 'fast track' to
> bringing prosperity, sweetness and light to all of us.  In
> reallity their aims are a bit more immediate and decidedly down
> to earth.  The page that they refer to loads as a black 'nothing'
> in the Konqueror browser.  That is because it is all direct X
> controls and probably web bugs as well.  I detected no obvious
> spyware like cookies;  they are probably too subtle for that.  I
> did find, however, that one goes nowhere on their site without
> first downloading, and installing, a spyware product called
> 'Flash 5' !  So the whole thing is a come-on to sucker us
> into installing this browser plug-in called 'Flash 5' !!
> This used to be, in its earlier incarnations, a useful if
> frivolous grafiks player back in the days when all
> grafiks were cached first and then played.  Now the graphics
> are 'streamed', meaning the program takes control of YOUR
> computer that YOU paid for and runs whatever IT likes on
> YOUR equipment and YOUR electricity.
>         It even installs itself withour your choice or knowledge
> of just what files it puts where.  It will not let you download
> an executable or a zip file so that you can install it later,
> or again if you do an upgrade or component change.  Oh
> no!  It arrogantly and rudely does it right away without your
> permission or input or ability to intervene save your use of
> the power switch.....you DID put an external power strip
> on your computer line did you not??!   ...after the digital
> monopoly sought to keep you from turning it off when they
> initiated the PC-97 ATX standard.....did'nt you?..........and
> you DO use an external modem with a hardwired absolute power
> switch did'nt you?  Even in the computer age, crooks are
> much alike.  Honest folks would provide you with a way to
> do these things rather than patronize you and then steal
> from you.  Your data, parts of it anyway, are worth money
> to every suede shoe boy that ever drew a breath.  Where
> do you think all your junk mail comes from, or how certain
> government agencies find out that you like sushi.
>         Streaming media plug-ins  leave no trace
> in your cache, probably covering its tracks while it shows you
> 'interesting pictures' .  The 'pictures' are probably a
> distraction while it is looting your machine of all the data that
> it can find like a shoplifter operating in a team....one
> distracts whilst the other steals.  Think of it!  If it can
> create and destroy files in your machine in one place, which
> it HAS to do if it is going to do this 'streaming', it can do
> the same in another.  Communication being two way in the
> process and instructions to your machine coming from a
> foreign 'agent' that has taken it over for the duration of the
> 'streaming'.........and perhaps MUCH longer....who is to say
> that data cannot also be sucked out of your machine as
> part of the same process.  NO DOUBT the creaters of this
> nonsense will deny the above with a 'smiling face'.
> I can hear them now: "Oh !!  I just can't IMAGINE where you got
> the idea that we do this.  Do you have PROOF.?
> Court proof!!".  Neither did the Laotians that escaped
> the killing fields of Angkha Loew (They were going
> to go BACK and their bring their smiling torturers to
> 'willingly' testify! ........no one would ever belief that!)
> Those Laotians were just as dead and to this day
> the US government has stonewalled on the
> real fate of Saloth Sar (Pol Pot)   The
> Jews were given similar assurances by the nazis when
> they were about to be 'deloused'.
>         Thank God I use Linux for browsing.  Linux stops
> these schmucks cold.  They can peddle their putz elseware.
> .........AND I WILL NEVER DOWNLOAD ANY FLASH 'PLAYER'!
> WE KNOW WHO IS BEING PLAYED!!!
> 
> Standing Bear
> i
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday 16 August 2001 13:50, Terry Blanton wrote:
> > Joe Firmage is now investing in new energy.
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Engaging the Future
> > Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:39:24 -0700
> > From: Joe Firmage <joefirmage firmage.org>
> > To: firmage_bulletin firmage.org
> >
> > Hello friend,
> >
> > You subscribed to my e-mail list at some point in the past
> three
> > years, and I've rarely taken the liberty of sending you a
> > message. But this week marks a special time. It is my pleasure
> > today to formally introduce Motion Sciences, a not-for-profit
> > advanced physics research and development organization
> dedicated
> > to pioneering breakthrough technologies for 21st century life.
> > After decades of theoretical and experimental physics research,
> > parts of which I've had the honor to help sponsor over the past
> > three years, scientists around the country are converging to
> help
> > catalyze a brighter future for all life on Earth. And today, I
> am
> > asking for your help in this mission. Learn more about Motion
> > Sciences at http://MotionSciences.org, and how you can help
> > advance our work at http://MotionSciences.org/joinnow.html.
> >
> > Ad astra,
> > Joe Firmage
> >
> >
> > ABOUT MOTION SCIENCES
> >
> > After several years and millions of dollars invested in
> > preparatory work, scientists in several research institutions
> > across the United States have come together. The people and
> > partners forming Motion Sciences believe that significant
> > discoveries in physics may be made within 10 years, discoveries
> > of great significance to the future of life on Earth. Explore
> > with me a hypothetical future.
> >
> > Imagine that we discover by 2005 a breakthrough in energy
> > generation -- a device that can produce electricity with almost
> > no fuel, cost, or waste. Imagine limitless conversion of
> seawater
> > to fresh water by 2015. Imagine that by 2025 we no longer need
> an
> > electricity grid. Imagine a pollution-free atmosphere by 2030.
> > Imagine a permanent end to the growing snarls of freeway
> traffic
> > by 2040. Imagine a society which recognizes a human right to
> move
> > about as freely as the goods of its economy -- across any
> border,
> > any time; or a reusable transportation vehicle that can take
> you
> > into Space, driven by a field of force rather than ejection of
> > propellant. Finally imagine a green Africa with a vibrant
> society
> > of human and natural life in 2051.
> >
> > Sounds like science fiction, doesn't it? In fact, the vision
> > described above portrays precisely the kind of future emerging
> > from the implications of some of the best physics research
> > underway in the world today. A group of talented scientists and
> > engineers began quiet collaboration a few years ago, and have
> now
> > publicly joined forces in and with Motion Sciences, bringing
> > essential collaboration to a very challenging set of research
> and
> > development projects, a collaboration that we hope can soon
> > extend to engage complementary teams around the world.
> >
> > In the process of forming this particular organization, we
> > considered for many months what kind of structure it should
> have.
> > Should Motion Sciences be a commercial, venture-capital backed
> > company? We tested this idea briefly, but more important in our
> > considerations, however, is the principle of what this mission
> is
> > all about, and it isn't about an IPO. Our mission is about the
> > possibility of sharing with the world one day tools that could
> > reverse environmental decline, end starvation and poverty, and
> > make wars a horror of the past.
> >
> > Our mission is about helping to enable a renewal of human
> > civilization, and Nature as a whole.
> >
> > Our mission is about the possibility that we will someday be
> able
> > to explore the Milky Way Galaxy in an interstellar spacecraft.
> >
> > Our mission is about scientific knowledge that shouldn't be
> owned
> > by a commercial corporation.
> >
> > Motion Sciences Organization is therefore truly a public
> > enterprise -- and if we're successful, the proceeds yielded
> from
> > technologies sponsored by Motion Sciences will be given back to
> > humanity through select philanthropies. As a not-for-profit
> > 501(c)3, our success in these missions will be dependent upon
> the
> > support of visionary institutional sponsors and citizens of
> > Earth. People like you. We have a goal for the 2001 calendar
> > year: engaging the support of 100,000 citizens of Earth,
> becoming
> > members of the Motion Sciences Community.
> >
> > On behalf of a rare and talented network of highly credentialed
> > and rigorous scientists, engineers, and the teams assisting
> them,
> > I invite you to join with the people and institutional partners
> > of Motion Sciences in an historic attempt at a vital mission. I
> > cannot imagine a better way for the physics of the 21st century
> > to be pioneered, than for citizens from all nations to come
> > together and make it so.  Let's join hands around the planet!
> >
> > Joseph P. Firmage
> > Chairman
> > Motion Sciences Organization
> > http://MotionSciences.org
> >
> >
> >
> > *****
> >
> > You have received this email because you are subscribed to Joe
> > Firmage's mailing list.  If you wish to be removed from the
> list,
> > please send an empty email to
> > firmage_bulletin-unsubscribe firmage.org.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > *****
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 12:57:32 2001
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:55:54 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Yet another dissenting academic gets what is coming to him
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An interesting evolutionary biologist by the name of Ted Steele recently 
suffered the usual fate of noisy people with unpopular views. They fired 
him, with a contrived excuse nothing to do with his research. See:

http://home.planet.nl/~gkorthof/kortho39b.htm

I hesitate to mention this, because some people might confuse Steele's 
views with creationism, a subject I hope we can avoid here. Steele, along 
with a small number of others, are what might be called neo-Lamarckians. 
They have developed what they consider experimental "evidence that 
reproductive (germ) cells can be modified by external influences from body 
(somatic) cells in a heritable fashion." According to the classic, circa 
1900 formulation of natural selection, the Weismann barrier prevents this. 
Perhaps this barrier will turn out to be like Maginot line and the Coulomb 
barrier: less potent than people were led to believe.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 14:22:39 2001
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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:19:48 -1000
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Matthew -

    > And the battle resorted to throwing rocks, Hand to hand
    > fighting, and Judo Wrestling contests between Champions on
    > wither side.

I always wondered why they ancients fought on horseback with arrows 
and spears and things like that when they had UFO's and beam weapons 
available to them if they wanted.

- Rick Monteverde
Honolulu, HI

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 15:04:35 2001
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>An interesting evolutionary biologist by the name of Ted Steele recently 
>suffered the usual fate of noisy people with unpopular views. They fired 
>him, with a contrived excuse nothing to do with his research. See:
>
>http://home.planet.nl/~gkorthof/kortho39b.htm
>
>I hesitate to mention this, because some people might confuse Steele's 
>views with creationism, a subject I hope we can avoid here. Steele, along 
>with a small number of others, are what might be called neo-Lamarckians. 
>They have developed what they consider experimental "evidence that 
>reproductive (germ) cells can be modified by external influences from body 
>(somatic) cells in a heritable fashion." According to the classic, circa 
>1900 formulation of natural selection, the Weismann barrier prevents this. 
>Perhaps this barrier will turn out to be like Maginot line and the Coulomb 
>barrier: less potent than people were led to believe.

Good point, Jed.

Quite likely the barrier is very weak.  Steele's book, Lamarck's 
Signature, is excellent.

It is also interesting that the current issue of Science has a cover 
story entiteled "Epigenetics."  Many technical articles included -- 10 
August 2001 issue. The upshot of the summary article is that clear 
molecular mechanisms exist (methylation of DNA) that act as detrminants 
of which genes in the DNA are used or not used to form proteins. There is 
discussion of how these mechnisms can be affected by the cell 
environment, but no discussion (that I have seen so far in that issue) of 
whether this additional mechanism might play a strong role in larger 
evolution.  Typical mainstream blind spot.

One of the best books I have ever read challenging the prevailing dogmas 
of natural selection is by an avowed NON-CREATIONIST:

"Darwin's Creation Myth: What it is How it Has Proved 'Unfit' Why it 
Survives."
by Alexander Mebane (1994), 80 pages.  Copiously referenced and extremely 
convincing as to the flaws in natural selection theory and experiment -- 
and how (non-creationist) heretics are treated.

(Available from The Sourcebook Project, PO Box 107, Glen Arm, MD 21057)

That evolution occurs is,  to my mind, beyond reasonable doubt.  That 
macroevolution works dominantly by Darwinian natural selection is 
significantly in doubt, despite the prevailing propaganda.
>
>- Jed

- Gene

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 20 18:31:45 2001
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
In-Reply-To: <01082000152801.00886 tyrannosaur>
References: <001401c128f5$b5d70230$0701010a sara>
 <3B801B3E.536C bellsouth.net>
 <001401c128f5$b5d70230$0701010a sara>
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At 12:15 AM 8/20/01 -0700, you wrote:
>destruction as well with a little imagination and utilization of
>energy forms now unknown to us and associated with quark
>sized particles much as allegedly took part in the detonation
>of a cosmic singularity.  Think of strange or 'charmed' radiation
>in the range of 10^26 megawatts as a coherent beam with NO speed
>limit as it will NOT be electromagnetic          .........
>............Well, one can dream;  and if one risks neither
>position nor credentials, then one can truly think 'out of the
>box'.
>
>Standing Bear
>rockcast net-link.net

Then this pompous jerk named "Que" shoes up (poof) and really screws things 
up.  Next thing you know you are at war with a race of bio-cyborgs that 
want to assimilate the entire human race.  hmmm  maybe we could screen play 
it out and make a TV series.

Ah but It will never sell.

:-)








_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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 <v01530500b7a67487e29a [12.21.208.61]>
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At 01:20 PM 8/20/01 -0400, you wrote:


>>         Think about it!  Think back!  Can you name very many
>>really signifigant breakthrough inventions created by an office
>>nebish.....a 'Dilbert' if you will?
>
>The IBM PC! The machine celebrating its 20th anniversery this month, to 
>worldwide acclaim. It was invented by a prototypical group of nebbishes at 
>IBM, made from components manufactured by companies like Intel.

SB:

I would have to agree with Jed on this one.

LASER = nerds
Bar Code = nerds
Color TV = nerds
LCDs = nerds
Cell communications = Also nerds
Fuel refineries = nerds
Power plants = nerds
The banks are even run by nerds
nerds are everywhere
All of the real decisions are actually made by nerds.
Actually we "nerds" are in charge of this little rock.
Should we have a "nerd union" strike everything would grind to a 
halt...  everywhere...
Within a couple of days.



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 21 07:56:53 2001
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This post lists the constituents of MS including Earthtech!

	<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Subject:  Motion Sciences Organization Press Release
Date:  Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:14:13 -0700
From:  Joe Firmage <joefirmage firmage.org>
To:  firmage_bulletin firmage.org

Motion Sciences Organization 
Contact: Tony Young, Director of Communications 
(650) 617-8969

MOTION SCIENCES LAUNCHES INTERNATIONAL COLLABORATION AMONG ADVANCED
PHYSICS RESEARCH ORGANIZATIONS

21st Century Nonprofit Research and Development Enterprise Formed to
Advance Collaboration Among Scientists Seeking Discoveries for
Breakthrough Propulsion, Energy, and Materials Technologies

PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA - August 20, 2001 - The Motion Sciences
Organization ( http://motionsciences.org) was launched August 13, 2001
as a 21st century advanced physics research and development organization
supporting an international network of individuals, institutions, and
businesses, pioneering together breakthrough technologies for 21st
century life. Motion Sciences is conducting fundamental theoretical and
experimental research relevant to the discovery of physical principles
that might enable breakthroughs in propulsion and energy generation
technologies. Scientists have joined Motion Sciences from NASA,
Lockheed-Martin, MIT, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center, Enrico Fermi
Institute at the University of Chicago, the University of Maryland, and
Princeton University, and are now actively conducting research in
advanced electrodynamics, quantum theory, and materials sciences.

"Over the past decade, research in several domains of physics is
suggesting that new insights into the nature of mass, the origin of
inertia and the mechanism of gravitation may be achieved in coming
years," said Dr. Bernard Haisch, Director of the California Institute
for Physics and Astrophysics, one of the institutions forming Motion
Sciences. "The organization of Motion Sciences represents a milestone
for this field of study, enabling a new level of focus and collaboration
among the many scientists and institutions exploring key unanswered
questions in physics," he added.

Motion Sciences Organization (MSO) connects, informs, sponsors, and
assists in the prioritization of collaborative research among Associates
of the Motion Sciences Research and Development Network, enabling
theoretical and experimental studies to advance beyond the limits
imposed by severely fragmented explorations of these domains. Through
the Research and Development Network, MSO and its Associates are able to
fulfill contract research and development of technological innovations
for productization in alliance with government and industry partners and
independent innovators. The alliance is expected to accelerate the
emergence of products and services for urgent and unaddressed near-,
mid-, and long-term human needs in advanced propulsion, renewable
energy, electromagnetic and acoustic sensing, infrastructure
construction and protection, navigation instrumentation, and testing and
analysis systems.

"The organizations coming together in alliance within the Motion
Sciences Research and Development Network represent capabilities beyond
theoretical research alone. We are actively conducting several key
experimental programs at this time, and are now equipped to take
successful concepts all the way to applied technology prototypes," said
Creon Levit, Director of Experimental Research for Motion Sciences.

Motion Sciences Organization has been formed by the combination of the
California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics
(http://www.calphysics.org) and the International Space Sciences
Organization (ISSO), founded in 1999 by information technology pioneer
Joseph P. Firmage. Initial Associates within the Motion Sciences
Research and Development Network include:

Scientific Applications and Research Associates, Inc.
(http://www.sara.com/), a world-class physics engineering company
providing services to the U.S. Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines, the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the U.S. Department of
Energy, the British Defence Evaluation Research Agency, the U.S. Defense
Threat Reduction Agency, the U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects
Agency, Northrop Grumman Corp, Boeing Corp., and TRW.

Institute for Advanced Studies in Austin
(http://www.earthtech.org/ias.htm), a privately funded theoretical and
experimental research organization in Austin, Texas, was established in
1985 to explore advanced concepts in forefront scientific areas.  Its
research activities range from theoretical studies of such fundamental
issues as gravitation, inertia, and cosmology, to laboratory studies of
innovative approaches to energy generation. The expertise of IAS is
regularly sought by both corporate and government entities, and its
personnel regularly serve various corporations, foundations, government
agencies, the Executive Branch, and Congress as consultants on
leading-edge technologies and future technology trends.

The research at Boston University under the direction of Prof. Daniel
Cole ( http://www.bu.edu/mfg/faculty/homepages/cole.html) involves
detailed exploration of Casimir cavities.  This research attempts to
combine basic theoretical work with applied technological innovation.
Cole's group has developed large simulation programs that have been used
in the microelectronics industry for guiding semiconductor technology
developments.  Cole also teaches a graduate level course in engineering
on the creation, protection, and commercialization of intellectual
property.

"Our scientists and those of our institutional associates have been
collaborating for several years in the exploration of these domains of
physics. After much preparatory work we have reached a critical mass,
and are ready to move to the next stage. We've formed a new structure to
enable tighter collaboration, better prioritization, larger-scale
programs, and a common vehicle for open public engagement and financial
sponsorship," said Mr. Firmage, Chairman of Motion Sciences
Organization.

Scientific Research

Motion Sciences Theoretical and Experimental Studies Team (TEST) is
comprised of thoroughly credentialed theorists and experimentalists in
domains central to Motion Sciences' mission. TEST most resembles a
distributed academic institute with strong experimental research
capabilities.  Through TEST, Motion Sciences sponsors focused research
internally, at top universities, and otherwise throughout the Motion
Sciences Research and Development Network.

The theoretical group within Motion Sciences has operated for two years
as the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics (CIPA), and is
led by Dr. Bernard Haisch, formerly of Lockheed-Martin, whose work in
this field is an outgrowth of NASA Research Contract NASW-5050, "Inertia
and Gravitation in the Zero-Point Field Model" (1996-2000) awarded to
the Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Center. This contract in turn
resulted from a seminal paper published in 1994 in the journal Physical
Review A entitled: "Inertia as a zero-point field Lorentz force" by B.
Haisch, A. Rueda and H. E. Puthoff. Based on work carried out at
California State University at Long Beach, the Lockheed Palo Alto
Research Lab, and the Max Planck Institute fĹźr extraterrestrische
Physik in Germany, a significantly new insight into the nature of mass
was proposed in that paper. Thereafter, work under the NASA contract
published in subsequent papers confirmed and indeed strengthened the
proposed connection between inertial mass and the quantum vacuum. In
recent years, the explorations of the relation between mass and the
quantum vacuum have been extended with possibly significant insights
into the nature of gravitation. Possible implications of this and of a
rapidly widening body of work in the domain of quantum vacuum physics
are that:

1.It may be possible to generate propulsive forces without the ejection
of material propellant or reaction masses.

2.It may be possible to extract energy from the quantum vacuum.

3.Both inertial mass and gravitational mass may be electromagnetic
phenomena, which would open the door to the possibility of manipulating
inertia and/or gravitation.

The theoretical concepts underlying these possibilities are based on an
extensive array of peer-reviewed publications in mainstream physics
journals.

Dr. Haisch's team is presently conducting studies in the areas of
quantum theory, electrodynamics, general relativity and other theories
of gravitation and inertia, superstring and M-theory and plasma physics,
as well as certain areas of astrophysics and laser physics. Through
funded contracts, TEST-CIPA additionally retains expertise in photonics,
quantum computation, and numerical simulation. As a way to broaden open
scientific collaboration and to tap into high-level expertise at other
institutions, external research grants have been made to faculty and
researchers at half a dozen other university departments in the U.S. and
abroad. The Scientific Advisory Board for the TEST-CIPA theoretical
group is chaired by world-renowned theoretician Prof. Paul Wesson.

The experimental group within TEST has operated for two years as the
International Space Sciences Organization, and is led by Creon Levit, a
19-year veteran of NASA Ames, where he specialized in fluid
hydrodynamics, quantum chemistry, molecular dynamics, computational
visualizations thereof, and founded NASA's molecular nanotechnology
laboratory. Employing considerable caution, collaborative discernment,
and careful pruning, Levit's team and the Associates he regularly
engages have mapped many mistaken paths of independent research.
Resulting from the first two years of this effort, extremely valuable
experience has been developed in a sometimes slippery, frequently
tangled domain. The results of this approach appear promising: a few
paths of exploration have indeed resulted in experiments now underway,
early data from which indicate that further research is justified.
Meanwhile, TEST's experimental group continues the process of examining
the field of ideas through active collaboration with Associates in the
Motion Sciences R&D Network.

Nonprofit Operating Model to Approach Public for Support

Motion Sciences has engaged a public fundraising campaign, seeking
support from the broad number of individuals and institutions worldwide
with an interest in advancing physics research relevant to solutions for
the significant environmental and social challenges faced by human
civilization. Individuals may support the research by joining the Motion
Sciences Community, obtaining regular updates and materials on progress
underway within Motion Sciences and across the general fields under
study.

Motion Sciences has also established a Development Office to partner
with major philanthropies whose focus intersects the long-term
humanitarian benefits Motion Sciences seeks to help catalyze.

About Motion Sciences Organization

Founded in 2001, Motion Sciences Organization is a 21st century advanced
physics research and development organization supporting an
international network of individuals, institutions, and businesses,
pioneering together breakthrough technologies for 21st century life.
Motion Sciences Organization is evolving human scientific understanding
and responsible technical application of advanced electrodynamics,
quantum theory, and materials sciences. The Organization connects,
informs, sponsors, and assists in the prioritization of collaborative
research among Associates of the Motion Sciences Research and
Development Network, enabling theoretical and experimental studies to
advance beyond the limits imposed by severely fragmented explorations of
these domains. Through the Research and Development Network, Motion
Sciences and its Associates are able to fulfill contract research and
development of technological innovations for productization in alliance
with government and industry partners, and independent innovators. The
alliance is expected to accelerate the emergence of products and
services for urgent and unaddressed near-, mid-, and long-term human
needs in advanced propulsion, renewable energy, electromagnetic and
acoustic sensing, infrastructure construction and protection, navigation
instrumentation, and testing and analysis systems.

The Organization operates facilities in Palo Alto, San Francisco, and
Alameda, California, and can be reached at http://motionsciences.org and
(650) 617-8969. --  

Tony Young 
Director of Public Affairs 
International Space Sciences Organization

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 21 10:00:52 2001
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Good article on CA energy crisis
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See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37193-2001Aug20.html

Quotes:

. . . Although few experts consider it advisable or even possible to return 
to the old regulated monopoly, many acknowledge that deregulation has 
fallen short of its promise.

"The California debacle has distracted people from noticing that some of 
these other markets aren't working so well for many of the same reasons as 
California," said Kenneth Rose . . . "We are not getting the intended 
benefits. . . . It's just very hard to get these markets to operate 
competitively. And it's going to require a lot more refinement than simply 
slapping on temporary price caps."

. . .

In Montana, the decision by the state's utility to sell all its generating 
facilities to a single Pennsylvania firm has resulted in industrial 
wholesale power prices 10 times what they were before. More than 1,000 
people have lost their jobs as sky-high electric rates caused plants and 
mines to close.

In New England, officials from several states began an investigation after 
private studies found that generating companies had artificially driven up 
the wholesale price of power by shutting down plants and withholding 
supply, particularly during last summer's heat wave.

Perhaps the most successful deregulatory regime is in Pennsylvania, which 
participates in a wholesale market with New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland and 
the District of Columbia. Even there, however, there has been backsliding. . . .

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:59:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Charlie Hodgson <cbh bigfoot.com>
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Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
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	Dear Folks,


	Active armor is used on present day US armored vehicles.  This is
little squares of high explosive undeneath the top-most armor plating.
	When the shell impacts the HE underneath goes off and deflects and
reacts ... that spot is no longer protected after the event.  It seems
dumb, but apparently works better than not.

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Subject: Fw: From Jack Carey
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----- Original Message -----
From: <JCarey9622 aol.com>
To: <halfox qwest.net>; <bsh@timelessvoyager.com>; <etimes@teleport.com>;
<paleo1 carrinter.net>; <Eardd@aol.com>; <pgb@padrak.com>;
<editor infinite-energy.com>; <hamed_4@hotmail.com>
Cc: <wharmony iinet.net.au>; <gvesperman@hotmail.com>; <iri@erols.com>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:47 AM
Subject: From Jack Carey


> FROM HAL FOX       My advice, for what it is worth:  In the letters I have
> received
> you have written off half of the world as being unable to
> understand what you have accomplished or can accomplish.  Your
> messages, if read by any professional, make you appear as Kooks,
> dreamers, charlatans, etc.
>
> REPLY   Hal it is more like 99.9999999%.      I was told by Mark Elliot
who
> saw you before he came here that people he has saw are taking me real
> serious. ASk him. Hal remember I'm A promotor and I have been able to
> convince a great many people With W's help that he is for real. Bill is
for
> real also. And the world is going to change dramatically can you change
with
> it?
>
> Except for the chart of thermal energy measurements that you
> recently sent (for which I am grateful), all we ever hear is how
> you are 200 years ahead of anyone and that no one has the
> intelligence to understand what you are doing.
>
>  REPLY     We and Bill are at least 200 years ahead. Me And W have a great
> deal of respect for you more so than anyone. But Can you explain anything
I
> showed you?. Hal old neclear is dead. New nuclear is here. If you do not
want
> to accept it that is your business. W can understand it.
>
> There has been no professional demonstration, Private Placement
> Memorandum, business plan, etc. to allow anyone to make any kind
> of technical judgement of what you have to offer.
>
> REPLY  Dennis Lee is Demostrating something of ours that no one we know of
> can understand. Go look at it for yourself.  Because Dennis is for real
now.
>  We have business plans 500 pages long.
>
> We have finally completed our funding arrangements (although it
> will be as much as three weeks before we receive the funding.
> That is why I haven't been to Flint as yet.
>
>  REPLY YOU are wecome any time and please bring Spencer and your Cousin.
>
> You gentlemen may be or represent the greatest inventions in the
> world.  Your methods of presentation are far from being
> professional.  You need some help.
>
> REPLY Your invalueable help has been greatly appericated. It was a honor
> meeting you , and your cousin. Spencer also  who I have had several very
long
> conversations with. . Paul Pantone was a waste of time except for his
> referall to Dennis Lee who now has a serious system with our inverter and
his
> generator that is going to be far more serious real soon.
>
> When it does not need any power from the wall to function. As it is it
will
> be the most advanced electricity conversation and delivery system on this
> planet that we know of. even with the draw from the wall factor. Go look
at
> it. THe 220 to 3 phase he has is only a Small Demo. unit. WE are building
a
> larger one that will run his generator that is far more advanced that the
one
> we built in N J. Where WE were able to create 65 Hp. of three phase work
with
> a 2 1/2 Hp draw from the wall from 220V. We have the tape. Imagine what it
> will be when it does not require any outside conventual electricity input
to
> operate. This is what has been done in regard to stepping up electricity
from
> the wall, can anybody matched or excede that? I'm waiting.for a responce.
>
> As soon as I can break lose from here (when the funds are in the
> bank and I don't have to keep dollars flowing for survival), I am
> willing to travel to Flint and see if my help would be
> acceptable.
>
> To give you an example:  We have prepared a Private Placement
> Memorandum, a Business Plan, and appropriate summary letters.  We
> have demonstrations set up in our laboratory.  We have written,
> presented, and had technical papers published.  And it is still a
> difficult to get funding.  We don't waste our time calling
> everybody an idiot because they fail to see the potential in what
> we are doing.  That is a waste of time and effort
>
> .REPLY I have never called you an idiot. Hal we are a few days away from
> having major funding.
>
> Investors do not invest in something that they don't understand.
> Or they ask some University Ph.D. to look over the topic.
>
>  REPLY       Visonary business men do. Hal There is not a university type
> that we know because we have looked that has a any clue what we or Bill is
> doing.
>
>
>  Where
> there is no professional papers available, they don't waste their
> time.  For example, during the past 13 years we have investigated
> over 100 devices or proposals.  We have found four that have
> strong commercial potential.  We are looking for the unusual
> discoveries.  We have an open mind and we have the technical
> background to understand new technology.
>
> REPLY THen explain the magnet material that I showed you. It does not
contain
> any metal. Heat does not effect it but cold does. its fields travel in a
> linear direction, It is not created with electricity. We have to build 2
20
> FT Tesla towers for starters to recreate it.
>
>  So far, there has not
> been one letter from you that gives us professional data until
> this past week, you sent a thermal plot.  The video from Wayne's
> lab is a start but it is far from a professional presentation.
>
>  REPLY You were sent Bills files before .  We do not to want to make our
> stuff professional. Otherwise someone will think we are trying to fool
them.
> Think about that one.  Also we do not tell people how anything works and
> never will.. We give you the measurements or you can take them and you can
> figure out how it works and argue will the machine.if you wish and tell it
> that is not supposed to do that. We were going to give part of the
knowledge
> and someone else another part but neither one of you would know the other.
> And it would take two to put it together for our company if something
happen
> to W. But after this letter I'm going to ask him to reconsider.
>
> If you want some professional help, be a little patient until I
> get the funds so I can travel to see you.  However, you may
> already have me written off as incapable of understanding what
> you are doing.
>
>  REPLY    HAL   We will always welcome your help. But most of the
electrical
> and nuclear knowledge that was taught in the old school is obsolete.
But
> your seal of approval is not necessary for us.  And I have not indicated
so
> in regard to understanding. W is every bit as professional as you are. I
have
> to be bold that is part of my job.   Please explain the creation of
Magnetic
> flux and plasma fields and what they do that the inverter creates?. You
have
> not been insulted do not insults us unless you have justification.
>
>  What I have been doing in regard to promoting is working quite well up to
> now. But the presentation can always be improved. As your and our
knowledge
> can also. You do not know it all and neither do we. And we would only be
> fooling ourselves if thought we did. Nothing we or Bill does has ever been
> taught in any school. There is basically no known knowledge of it   PERIOD
>  that we know of.
>
>  I did not see you explain anything to me that I showed you in May. WHY?
ALL
> I can think is you did not have a clue. Spencer Larson understood the
> concepts and the importance of what I showed him while we at your house I
> think you Cousin saw the importance of the material.also. That is why
Spencer
> and I have had several very long phone conversations.  . This letter was
not
> necessary. You are probably going to be blow away weather you like it or
not.
> And if that happens and it  probably will   I hope you change your
attutide.
> Your are welcome to try and blow us away if you can. If you can we will
> change our attutide if necessary.
>
>  We were willing to help you get funding by including our stuff with yours
> but you turned down the offer. I would have not turn down your offer if
one
> was made from your end..  Hal you did not see the big picture.   The more
> fire power I have the quicker I can win the war. Bill has very serious
Tech.
> And it has given me more fire power to add to our stuff .
>
>  I will soon be dealing with heads of country's in different parts of the
> world that desperatly need our Model T 220 to 3 phase  systems through
> contacts. Plus I have been dealing directly with Billionairs go betweens.
> That have tapes to view of the Demo at Dennis's Show. Not the one you
have.
> They may not see it the possibly chance of a lifetime either as most do
not.
>
>  But the Middle East business people that have high end Govt. contacts and
> are also very smart practical civil engineers that were at DENNIS'S SHOW
FROM
> ANN ARBOR MI. AND HAVE MET   W     ARE CONVINCED THAT IT IS FOR REAL.
> I'm probably going to LA in early Sept. as the previous mail indicates.
Bills
> safe clean technology can also be used in many Mid east applications as
ours
> can that are in great need of it without all the BS and arrogant
scientific
> community types that do not understand any of it that we have to put up
with
> here in the states.
>
> We are not wasting our time on the US for now OR THE CLOSE MINDED know it
all
> arrogant SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY. Hal. Also Ask Bruce Meland what he thinks
of
> the technology. He is publishing a true story about our CO. Tech. this
week
> that will shake the world.         Now Dennis Lee is very creditable Ask
him
> also. He had the most advanced generator on the planet. But could not
drive
> it efficiently.  Now he has a way to make it very feasible for market.
With
> our 220 to three phase driver.  You should have came a long time ago Hal.
> JACK CAREY  Confidential Technologies/Direct Electronics.  Flint Mi.
BRUCE
> please post this on Vortex
>
> Best personal regards,  Hal Fox
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 21 17:52:32 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: More from Joe Firmage on Motion Sciences
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Who IS this Joe Firmage?  Is he well known?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 21 19:34:49 2001
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Message-ID: <3B8337D0.2879 bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:40:48 -0700
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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Horace Heffner wrote:
> 
> Who IS this Joe Firmage?  Is he well known?

Former CEO of US Web, a successful dotcom.  Outside the internet, he was
virtually unknown until he advocated his belief in intelligent alien
life (based on a personal close encounter).  Worth millions, but he was
forced to resign when his advocacy affected his firm's acquisition
plans.  Search http://www.google.com/ for him.

Regards,

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 21 19:37:55 2001
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: From Jack Carey
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Bruce:

Could you please seperate the commented portions of this string.  It is 
very dificult to tell who said what to whom...



At 02:35 PM 8/21/01 -0700, you wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: <JCarey9622 aol.com>
>To: <halfox qwest.net>; <bsh@timelessvoyager.com>; <etimes@teleport.com>;
><paleo1 carrinter.net>; <Eardd@aol.com>; <pgb@padrak.com>;
><editor infinite-energy.com>; <hamed_4@hotmail.com>
>Cc: <wharmony iinet.net.au>; <gvesperman@hotmail.com>; <iri@erols.com>
>Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:47 AM
>Subject: From Jack Carey

Canyouhelpmefixmyspacebar

:-)



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
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Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:43:13 -0700
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On Monday 20 August 2001 21:24, Charles Ford wrote:
> At 01:20 PM 8/20/01 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> 
> >>         Think about it!  Think back!  Can you name very many
> >>really signifigant breakthrough inventions created by an 
office
> >>nebish.....a 'Dilbert' if you will?
> >
> >The IBM PC! The machine celebrating its 20th anniversery this 
month, to 
> >worldwide acclaim. It was invented by a prototypical group of 
nebbishes at 
> >IBM, made from components manufactured by companies like 
Intel.
> 
> SB:
> 
> I would have to agree with Jed on this one.
> 
> LASER = nerds
> Bar Code = nerds
> Color TV = nerds
> LCDs = nerds
> Cell communications = Also nerds
> Fuel refineries = nerds
> Power plants = nerds
> The banks are even run by nerds
> nerds are everywhere
> All of the real decisions are actually made by nerds.
> Actually we "nerds" are in charge of this little rock.
> Should we have a "nerd union" strike everything would grind to 
a 
> halt...  everywhere...
> Within a couple of days.
> 
>
I did not mean nerds.  I meant nebishes.  Nebishes are not nerds.
Nebishes do not try to concentrate and think lest they receive
a bad performance review.  Nebishes do not try to create, as that
is for the boss to do.  'Bosses' tell nebishes everything to do 
and when to do it and how to do it.  A nebish is a total 
sycophant;  he would suck a greyhound bus if told to, right up
to the point of becoming a flatliner.  Nebishes care about 
'fashion' and conformity to a fault, and would never be caught
dead wearing a pocket protector, never mind carrying a 
calibration tool and a thermometer in it besides a digital clock
pen.  Besides, nebishes would ask their co-worker to read the 
thermometer so that no one could blame them for reading it
wrong.  Nebishes create reams of worthless reports to nonenities
about non events signifying nothing before going home to their
televisions to watch re-runs of 'Frazier'.  They are the civilian
world's equivalent of the military 'lifer':

                L    .................lazy
                 I     .................inefficient
                  F    ..................f_____, aw you know 
                   E     ...............expecting
                    R     ................retirement!
                           --on restroom wall at Rhein-Main AB
in Germany.

ON the other hand,          .........nerds are consummate 
individualists!   Nerds care nothing about group the group
dynamics of comparative obseqiousness, sycophancy,
treachery, and hypocrisy........they do not really play
office politics.  For this reason they usually fail in most
organizations unless that organization cannot successfully
economically do without them.  While in an organization, 
they contribute most of the creative input;  this is why some
corporations appear to invent a lot of stuff.  The organization
managers suck them dry of ideas and discard them like old
magazines.  Often not caring for material wealth, they 
will sign anything for the opportunity to work on something
interesting using expensive equipment that they could not
otherwise afford.  Their inventions become the property 
of their employers and they watch successful nebishes
relax in swimming pools paid for by the fruit of their ideas.
Occasionally, a nerd, like Steve Wozniak of Apple, will
break free of a corporation and start his own business.
If the nerd is also a good businessman, he may be wildly
successful too.  But unlike nebishes, nerds usually do
not turn their back on their old friends and their roots.  I
remember the Woz's rock and roll parties.  Do you?

Standing Bear
rockcast net-link.net

Hey, I realize that the Woz' partner was Steve Jobs.
Jobs is a prime example of a nebish who saw an
opportunity and latched onto the Woz' ideas for the
original Apple.  Since parting ways back in the 80's,
Jobs has returned to nebishdom .......and comfortable
swimming pools paid for by the blood and toil of others.
It was Jobs that killed the Apple ][ by not allowing it
to grow...........and it could have!  Wozniak wanted
Jobs to go along with a new Apple ][ using the then
new 16502 processor, but Jobs would not hear of it.
That could have been just the beginning.  After
the Woz left Apple, Jobs ran the company almost
to bankruptcy with a series of closed boxes, closed
operating systems, intrusive software, litiginous
attitudes, avaricious prices, low quality and chip
count boards, etc..........then he left!  Rape, Ruin,
and Run!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 22 03:27:33 2001
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:26:52 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: From Jack Carey
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>-
>Subject: From Jack Carey
>
>  > FROM HAL FOX       My advice, for what it is worth:  In the letters I have
>
>  >  REPLY     We and Bill are at least 200 years ahead. Me And W have a great
>  > deal of respect for you more so than anyone. But Can you explain anything

What one engineer can develop, another engineer can soon understand. 
To say that you are 200 years ahead of everyone else is arrogant.

>  > REPLY  Dennis Lee is Demostrating something of ours that no one we know of
>>  can understand. Go look at it for yourself.  Because Dennis is for real
>now.

Oh, so Dennis Lee wasn't real before?

>  >  We have business plans 500 pages long.

You don't need a 500 page business plan if you have a generator that 
is 500% efficient. Dennis has a network of distributors who would 
line up to purchase such a machine.

>
>  > also. He had the most advanced generator on the planet. But could not
>drive
>>  it efficiently.  Now he has a way to make it very feasible for market.

I agree, the tough part is coming up with the generator

>With
>>  our 220 to three phase driver.  You should have came a long time ago Hal.
>>  JACK CAREY  Confidential Technologies/Direct Electronics.  Flint Mi.



>BRUCE
>  > please post this on Vortex
>
>  >
>>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 22 07:29:18 2001
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:27:39 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: "Shields UP!" - Electromagnetic Tank Armor
In-Reply-To: <01082123431300.01215 tyrannosaur>
References: <4.2.0.58.20010820230549.009b42b0 pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <01082010334900.03584 tyrannosaur>
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Standing Bear wrote:

>I did not mean nerds.  I meant nebishes.  Nebishes are not nerds.
>Nebishes do not try to concentrate and think lest they receive
>a bad performance review.  Nebishes do not try to create, as that
>is for the boss to do.

This is your personal definition, unknown to the rest of us. The dictionary 
defines "nebbish" as "A person regarded as weak-willed or timid. [Yiddish 
nebekh, poor, unfortunate, of Slavic origin.]" (American Heritiage) You 
cannot expect other people to read your mind and grasp your definition of 
words. In any case, weak-willed, timid people have made many important 
contributions, but usually someone else took the credit.

By the way, Mr. Bear, when you quote messages please delete irrelevant 
portions to keep your postings short. That is one of the rules set by Bill 
Beaty, who runs this group.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 22 09:00:05 2001
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: From Jack Carey
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thomas malloy wrote:

>What one engineer can develop, another engineer can soon understand. To 
>say that you are 200 years ahead of everyone else is arrogant.

It goes beyond arrogant. It's ridiculous. Only two people were ever that 
far ahead: Leonardo da Vinci and Francis Bacon, and they did not make 
machines that could be reverse engineered.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 22 09:58:09 2001
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:56:52 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC Foreign language phrasebooks
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This is hysterical:

http://www.zompist.com/phrases.html

See also examples from real phrasebook:

http://www.zompist.com/thought.html

My favorites:

WELSH - Get by in Welsh 1979

All the road signs have been pulled down.
Mae'r holl arwyddion wedi'u tynnu i lawr.

No, I'm taking the little train.
Na, rwy'n mynd ar y tręn bach.

What's the barn in the middle of the field?
Beth yw'r ysgubor ar ganol y cae?

Cricket is a silly game.
Gęm ddwl yw criced.

Don't pester the girls in the next tent.
Peidiwch â phoeni'r merched yn y babell nesa.

She has excellent breasts.
Mae bronnau ardderchog da hi.


- JR

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 22 10:14:29 2001
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From: Steve Krivit <STEVE DLSI.NET>
To: "vortex-l eskimo.com" <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: More from Joe Firmage on Motion Scie
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:15:00 -0700
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prior to US Web was an exec at Novell

 ----------
From: Terry Blanton
To: vortex-l eskimo.com; Steve Krivit
Subject: Re: More from Joe Firmage on Motion Sciences
Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 9:40PM


Horace Heffner wrote:
>
> Who IS this Joe Firmage?  Is he well known?

Former CEO of US Web, a successful dotcom.  Outside the internet, he was
virtually unknown until he advocated his belief in intelligent alien
life (based on a personal close encounter).  Worth millions, but he was
forced to resign when his advocacy affected his firm's acquisition
plans.  Search http://www.google.com/ for him.

Regards,

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 22 19:04:44 2001
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Japan is developing distributed generation:

http://english.hk.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/afp/article.html?s=hke/headlines/010823/technology/afp/Japan_developing_micro_nuclear_reactor_for_apartment_blocks.html

(killer URL)

	<><><><><><><><><><><>

Thursday, August 23 3:02 AM SGT 

Japan developing micro nuclear reactor for apartment blocks

PARIS, Aug 22 (AFP) - 

Japan is developing a tiny nuclear reactor designed to generate power in
the basement of an apartment block, despite widespread public concern
over the country's nuclear safety record, New Scientist says.

The 200-kilowatt micro-reactor, Rapid-L, measures just six metres (20
feet) high and two metres (6.5 feet) wide and was initially conceived as
a plug-and-play source of power for lunar colonies.

Although colonisation schemes have long been shelved, scientists at
Japan's Central Research Institute of Electrical Power Industry (CRIEPI)
have revived plans for the Rapid-L, believing it could be a handy source
of power for an office building or apartment block, the report says.

It would be located in the building's basement, surrounded by a solid
containment structure for safety reasons.

"In the future it will be quite difficult to construct further large
nuclear power plants because of site restrictions," Mitsuru Kambe, head
of the research team, told the British science weekly.

"To relieve peak loads in the near future, I believe small, modular
reactors located in urban areas such as Tokyo Bay will be effective," he
said.

Kambe added, however: "The success of such a reactor depends on the
acceptance of the public, the electricity utilities and the government."

In the past few months, Kambe's team have been testing a fail-safe
mechanism to close the reactor down in the event of overheating, the
report says in next Saturday's issue of New Scientist.

The work is being financed by the Japan's Atomic Energy Research
Institute. 

Unlike conventional reactors, the Rapid-L would have no control rods to
regulate the nuclear reaction, the goal being to remove a mechanical
source of potential malfunction.

Instead, it would use reservoirs of molten lithium-6, an isotope that is
effective at absorbing neutrons. The reservoirs are connected to a
vertical tube that runs through the reactor core.

During normal operation the tube contains an inert gas. But as the
temperature of the reactor rises, the liquid lithium expands,
compressing the inert gas and entering the core to absorb neutrons and
slow down the reaction. 

The reactor would run at about 530 C (986 F), cooled by liquid sodium.

Malcolm Grimston, a nuclear expert at the Royal Institute of
International Affairs, doubted whether the Japanese public could be
persuaded that the reactor was safe, given a string of incidents at
large nuclear plants in recent years. 

In the worst case, two workers died at a uranium processing plant in
Tokaimura in 1999, more than 400 other people were exposed to radation
and at least 300,000 people were forced to shelter indoors for more than
a day.

"There's nothing wrong with the (Rapid-L) concept," Grimston told New
Scientist.

"But if the Japanese public won't now accept big reactors for safety
reasons, then you have to wonder what the response would be building
lots of small reactors in the middle of cities." 

<end>

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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:29:55 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Developing 200kW Fission Reactor
In-Reply-To: <3B8482A9.236E bellsouth.net>
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I see how desperation sometimes breeds folly.


At 09:12 PM 8/22/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Japan is developing distributed generation:
>
>http://english.hk.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/afp/article.html 
>?s=hke/headlines/010823/technology/afp/Japan_developing_micro_nuclear_react 
>or_for_apartment_blocks.html
>
>(killer URL)
>
>         <><><><><><><><><><><>
>
>Thursday, August 23 3:02 AM SGT
>
>Japan developing micro nuclear reactor for apartment blocks
>
>PARIS, Aug 22 (AFP) -
>
>Japan is developing a tiny nuclear reactor designed to generate power in
>the basement of an apartment block, despite widespread public concern
>over the country's nuclear safety record, New Scientist says.
>
>The 200-kilowatt micro-reactor, Rapid-L, measures just six metres (20
>feet) high and two metres (6.5 feet) wide and was initially conceived as
>a plug-and-play source of power for lunar colonies.
>
>Although colonisation schemes have long been shelved, scientists at
>Japan's Central Research Institute of Electrical Power Industry (CRIEPI)
>have revived plans for the Rapid-L, believing it could be a handy source
>of power for an office building or apartment block, the report says.
>
>It would be located in the building's basement, surrounded by a solid
>containment structure for safety reasons.
>
>"In the future it will be quite difficult to construct further large
>nuclear power plants because of site restrictions," Mitsuru Kambe, head
>of the research team, told the British science weekly.
>
>"To relieve peak loads in the near future, I believe small, modular
>reactors located in urban areas such as Tokyo Bay will be effective," he
>said.
>
>Kambe added, however: "The success of such a reactor depends on the
>acceptance of the public, the electricity utilities and the government."
>
>In the past few months, Kambe's team have been testing a fail-safe
>mechanism to close the reactor down in the event of overheating, the
>report says in next Saturday's issue of New Scientist.
>
>The work is being financed by the Japan's Atomic Energy Research
>Institute.
>
>Unlike conventional reactors, the Rapid-L would have no control rods to
>regulate the nuclear reaction, the goal being to remove a mechanical
>source of potential malfunction.
>
>Instead, it would use reservoirs of molten lithium-6, an isotope that is
>effective at absorbing neutrons. The reservoirs are connected to a
>vertical tube that runs through the reactor core.
>
>During normal operation the tube contains an inert gas. But as the
>temperature of the reactor rises, the liquid lithium expands,
>compressing the inert gas and entering the core to absorb neutrons and
>slow down the reaction.
>
>The reactor would run at about 530 C (986 F), cooled by liquid sodium.
>
>Malcolm Grimston, a nuclear expert at the Royal Institute of
>International Affairs, doubted whether the Japanese public could be
>persuaded that the reactor was safe, given a string of incidents at
>large nuclear plants in recent years.
>
>In the worst case, two workers died at a uranium processing plant in
>Tokaimura in 1999, more than 400 other people were exposed to radation
>and at least 300,000 people were forced to shelter indoors for more than
>a day.
>
>"There's nothing wrong with the (Rapid-L) concept," Grimston told New
>Scientist.
>
>"But if the Japanese public won't now accept big reactors for safety
>reasons, then you have to wonder what the response would be building
>lots of small reactors in the middle of cities."
>
><end>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:32:41 +1000
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In reply to  Terry Blanton's message of Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:12:25 -0700:
[snip]
>"But if the Japanese public won't now accept big reactors for safety
>reasons, then you have to wonder what the response would be building
>lots of small reactors in the middle of cities." 
[snip]
As long as small reactors don't automatically consume their own waste,
there is a problem. If the Barker principle is applied within the
reactor to enhance the decay rate, and the energy is extracted
magnetically instead of as heat, then there might be a future in such
devices.

(Enhanced decay rates means that when power production stopped the
reactor would contain only stable isotopes).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 22 23:42:39 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
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Alex Frolov is now publishing a magazine on alt. sci. research...

((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:58:11 0400
From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <office faraday.ru>
To: billb eskimo.com
Subject: advanced space propulsion and new energy

Dear Sir,

We are new scientific research and development laboratory.  Also we are
publisher of New Energy Technologies. It is printed magazine, in English,
72 pages. It presents science and technology in the field of new energy,
advanced propulsion methods for aerospace industry, torsion field (spin
field) generators, longitudinal waves and space-time engineering, ether
wind experiments and other latest inventions from Russia. 

Please, look the content of July-August issue at http://www.faraday.ru

I hope our news can be useful in your scientific work.  Please, let your
colleagues know about our new company. 

Best regards,

Sincerely,

Alexander V. Frolov
Director
Faraday Lab Ltd
http://www.faraday.ru
St.Petersburg, Russia
7-812-2764761


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 00:46:23 2001
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:45:44 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: The value of a distributorship
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Fellow Vortexians;

I sent the second section of this email to one of Dennis Lee's 
people, and got the following response. While he failed to answer 
three of the questions posed, at least we are communicating. I have 
sent a return email posing the unanswered questions and you can 
expect a follow up. The most important thing is that they are 
offering people with the appropriate test instruments the opportunity 
to test the generator. I have forwarded this to Pat Bailey and I want 
to make the rest of you aware of what I hope will be a forthcoming 
test. Who knows, I may have to eat crow.

>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:58:49 -0400
>From: "J. Michael Hall" <Mike ucsofa.com>
>X-Accept-Language: en
>To: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
>Subject: Re: The value of a distributorship
>
>You can come to the meeting and test the generator's input and output
>power.  We load the generator with a load bank.  We cannot take time to
>set up a different load. You need a 3 phase accumulative watt meter with
>power factor to verify our numbers.  As to the rest, you would have to
>talk to Dennis about that.  Mike.
>
>thomas malloy wrote:
>
>>  Dear Mike;
>>
>>    I picked your name off the USOFA website. I regard Dennis as a scam.
>>  However I am willing to take back all the mean things that I've said
>>  about him if he can come up with a working F E generator.
>>
>>  By way of background I've been following the F E story for 25+ years.
>>  I have been attempting to gain an understanding of things like the
>>  active aether, vortexes and low energy nuclear reactions.
>>
>>  One of my MN Tesla society friends went to Dennis show last Thursday
>>  and purchased the $15 package. I was attacking Dennis' presentation
>>  at our monthly meeting. I've been going to Dennis' meetings for
>>  almost ten years, and I've yet to see him come up with any original
>>  hardware, that I believe will work. While I'm on the subject. However
>>  they were saying that Dennis had a generator which was 500%
>>  efficient, is that the technology that Jack Carey is working on? They
>>  were talking about people coming to the meeting with clamp on watt
>>  meters. If Dennis has a working machine with him and he is willing to
>>  allow someone to test it, I think that I can arrange that when he
>>  gets to California. I want to see it heat water, if Dennis is
>>  agreeable to this test, let me know. The people who went to this
>>  latest meeting were talking about a machine that worked by inducing a
>>  vortex, Dennis had a video of it running what was that thing? I'm
>>  wondering if this might be a Schauenberger vortex? They said that
>>  Dennis has a video, I pointed out that Star Trek is a video too?
>>
>>  A friend of mine "invested" Dennis Lee $10,000 about 10 years ago.
>>  She has written it off.  My friend told me that Dennis is about to
>>  distribute two generators in each state. If there is any person in
>>  Minnesota who deserves one of those generators it is her. I'm ready
>>  to wire it up for her just as soon as Dennis delivers. She told me
>>  that she is willing to sell her distributorship for what ever she can
>>  get out of it. She offered me a commission if I could arrange a sale,
>>  however I told her that she should wait and see what you people can
>>  come up with.
>>
>>  Sincerely
>>
>>  --
>>  Thomas Malloy
>>  Minnesota Real Estate Broker
>>  2433 S. 16 Ave.
>>  Minneapolis, MN 55404 USA
>>  Phone 612 722 0069
>>  fax      413 647 9599

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 06:48:57 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: <cay electricspacecraft.com>, <war123@aztec.asu.edu>,
        "Fred Epps" <fepps fidalgo.net>,
        "Doug Marett" <doug.marett sympatico.ca>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1010822234108.22579B-100000 eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:47:52 -0400
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Thank you for bringing that to our attention, Bill.

http://www.faraday.ru/propulsion.html
****9. Thermogravitics propulsion
             "Thermo-gravitation propulsion technology is tested in
experiment by Alexander Shegolev, Russia as weight changes in heated metal
body of special shape. The thrust is created if directed heat flow (ordered
heat molecular motion) is created in the mass of this body."


I note that on Frolov's propulsion page above that some heat/gravity
experiments have been performed by A. Shegolev. This may verify some
experiments with anomalous force development from heat flow done by-  Nick
Reiter, and Peter Fred.

IMHO- I believe that it is yet still a little early or too premature to
directly label this force as gravitational.

Interestingly, Frederick Sparber has several times on this forum predicted
that an anomalous force will develop with heat flow. The first time he
mentioned it here was several years ago.


Additional information about Alexander Shegolev's and Alex Frolov's
experiments can be found on Google.

Colin Quinney


----- Original Message -----
From: "William Beaty" <billb eskimo.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:42 AM
Subject: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)


>
> Alex Frolov is now publishing a magazine on alt. sci. research...
>
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (
   (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:58:11 0400
> From: "Alexander V. Frolov" <office faraday.ru>
> To: billb eskimo.com
> Subject: advanced space propulsion and new energy
>
> Dear Sir,
>
> We are new scientific research and development laboratory.  Also we are
> publisher of New Energy Technologies. It is printed magazine, in English,
> 72 pages. It presents science and technology in the field of new energy,
> advanced propulsion methods for aerospace industry, torsion field (spin
> field) generators, longitudinal waves and space-time engineering, ether
> wind experiments and other latest inventions from Russia.
>
> Please, look the content of July-August issue at http://www.faraday.ru
>
> I hope our news can be useful in your scientific work.  Please, let your
> colleagues know about our new company.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Alexander V. Frolov
> Director
> Faraday Lab Ltd
> http://www.faraday.ru
> St.Petersburg, Russia
> 7-812-2764761



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 8/17/2001

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 07:46:14 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <4.2.0.58.20010821214006.00976c60 pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: From Jack Carey
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:48:53 -0700
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I am not sure it is worth anybodys time to listen to Jack Babble and perhaps
i should not have forwarded to Vortex
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: From Jack Carey


> Bruce:
>
> Could you please seperate the commented portions of this string.  It is
> very dificult to tell who said what to whom...
>
>
>
> At 02:35 PM 8/21/01 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <JCarey9622 aol.com>
> >To: <halfox qwest.net>; <bsh@timelessvoyager.com>; <etimes@teleport.com>;
> ><paleo1 carrinter.net>; <Eardd@aol.com>; <pgb@padrak.com>;
> ><editor infinite-energy.com>; <hamed_4@hotmail.com>
> >Cc: <wharmony iinet.net.au>; <gvesperman@hotmail.com>; <iri@erols.com>
> >Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 10:47 AM
> >Subject: From Jack Carey
>
> Canyouhelpmefixmyspacebar
>
> :-)
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 09:20:01 2001
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 12:19:18 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Japan Developing 200kW Fission Reactor
In-Reply-To: <3B8482A9.236E bellsouth.net>
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Terry Blanton reports:


>The 200-kilowatt micro-reactor, Rapid-L, measures just six metres (20
>feet) high and two metres (6.5 feet) wide and was initially conceived as
>a plug-and-play source of power for lunar colonies. . . .

. . .

>Unlike conventional reactors, the Rapid-L would have no control rods to
>regulate the nuclear reaction, the goal being to remove a mechanical
>source of potential malfunction.
>
>Instead, it would use reservoirs of molten lithium-6, an isotope that is
>effective at absorbing neutrons. The reservoirs are connected to a
>vertical tube that runs through the reactor core. . . .

This is crazy idea. I hope it is quashed before they waste money on it. 
Molten lithium is very hazardous material, and so is uranium. Japanese 
infrastructure is notoriously underfunded and inconsistent. Large, modern 
downtown buildings meet the highest standards, and would pass inspection 
anywhere in the world. Many others are in disarray and disrepair. I have 
seen buildings, power substations, storage tanks, highway off-ramps and 
other structures that would be condemned and cordoned off as a public 
menace in Europe or the U.S.

Also, work-place safety laws, inspection and supervision are lax in Japan. 
That was the cause of the Tokaimura criticality accident, for example. An 
American acquaintance of mine, Mike Cash, who drives a truck for a living 
in Japan described the situation: "Truck drivers in most developed 
countries are subject to some sort of Hours of Service regulations which 
set limits on their workdays and mandate certain periods of rest. Japan, to 
the best of my knowledge, has no such rules."

Living in Japan would give a typical American enhanced respect for our 
system of activist, interventionist government, and strong regulations. We 
assume that industry and government have opposing interests, and government 
may be right about half the time. Hard core Republicans and libertarians do 
not understand this. I would sentence them to live in a substandard 
Japanese neighborhood and work in a typical factory in summer for six 
months. The stench of open sewers and cesspools, and the sight of loose, 
uncovered electric wires running parallel with soft rubber hoses carrying 
explosive gas might knock some sense into them. They would come back to the 
U.S. and kiss the first OSHA inspector they met.

Of course, the Japanese government does many other things well, such as 
health care and education. Other standards have improved in the last 30 
years, I admit. But you have to wonder about a country that still cannot 
build sewers in so many cities and towns. Before they develop 21st century 
portable fission reactors, they should master 19th century plumbing.


>"But if the Japanese public won't now accept big reactors for safety
>reasons, then you have to wonder what the response would be building
>lots of small reactors in the middle of cities."

Right! The Japanese public are not fools. They have seen many nuclear 
plants and other large-scale hazardous projects botched. They know the 
limitations of corporate & government technical prowess.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 09:21:55 2001
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:20:50 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: The value of a distributorship
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At 02:45 AM 8/23/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Fellow Vortexians;
>
>I sent the second section of this email to one of Dennis Lee's people, and 
>got the following response. While he failed to answer three of the 
>questions posed, at least we are communicating. I have sent a return email 
>posing the unanswered questions and you can expect a follow up. The most 
>important thing is that they are offering people with the appropriate test 
>instruments the opportunity to test the generator. I have forwarded this 
>to Pat Bailey and I want to make the rest of you aware of what I hope will 
>be a forthcoming test. Who knows, I may have to eat crow.

Probably not....

Here is where the wool is in the "wool over the eyes" demonstration.  He is 
of course advertising that he will allow you to measure the load 
power.  That is why you need the fancy three phase meter.  There is nothing 
unusual about the output it is simple three phase 60Hz sine.  I have no 
trouble at all believing that he is providing the ~10KW at the load (in the 
demo that I watched) Then he wants us to take his word for the rest,  This 
means the input.

In the demonstration he showed voltage measurements taken during "no load" 
operation and is offering that as his input power level.  Then loads the 
generator up and spends the rest of the time on the output.  Never once 
going back to measure input current never and addressing questions 
concerning the loaded input.

In the long term (10 years ago)  Every month hundreds of new products hit 
the shelves that have much more complexity and where developed and 
certified and marketed in less then a year with a poultry fraction of a 
fraction of the monies that Dennis has conned out of the gullible.




Charlie Ford

KC5-OWZ
cjford1 yahoo.com
cjford1 swbell.net

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free  yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 13:45:44 2001
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Message-ID: <3B84AAA4.DA8847FA picknowl.com.au>
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:03:00 +1000
From: Dennis Curnow <kurnow picknowl.com.au>
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G'Day Gang,

I've just joined the list and am interested in Viktor Schauberger's
work. Am I on the right list for this sort of discussion??

Cheers

Dennis


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 14:34:55 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Another hot tip
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:18:24 EDT
From: Eusebius7 aol.com
To: <aki ix.netcom.com>

[Source: Washington Post, p. A5, William Harwood, Aug. 20, 2001]
    HAS THE FINE STRUCTURE CONSTANT SHIFTED SLIGHTLY OVER
BILLIONS OF YEARS? A paper to appear in Physical Review Letters
of Aug. 27 presents statistical evidence that the fine structure
constant has shifted by about one part in 100,000 over the past
12 billion years, the Washington Post reports. The fine structure
constant is a measure of the strength of the electromagnetic
interaction, considered by modern physics as one of the four
fundamental forces of nature.
    The observational basis for this claim comes from the
measurement of what is supposed to be the most intense light that
comes to us from great distances--the light of quasars. When we
observe quasar light that has passed through gas and dust clouds,
its spectrum shows absorption lines. The spacing of these lines
is proportional to the fine structure constant. But when such
spectra are taken for quasar light passing through clouds at
greatly different distances from us, the spacing of the
absorption lines is slightly different. Because the two sets of
measurements--near and far--differ by so little, statistical
means are being used to distinguish them.
    The work has been done by a team led by John Webb, head of
astrophysics at the University of New South Wales in Sydney,
Australia. Some of the measurements were done with the 33-foot
Keck 1 mirror on Mauna Kea, Hawaii.
    Mario Livio, a theorist at the Space Telescope Science
Institute in Baltimore, is reported in the Post article as having
tried to explain the team's earlier results by some other means.
Now, however, Livio says, "I cannot see anything they are doing
wrong.... They have definitely improved on all aspects of their
work."  "If confirmed, this is a sensational result. This is
really probably one of the major breakthroughs we have seen."
Others are also quoted in support of the finding.
    In discussion of the finding at 21st Century, the following
comments were made. Larry Hecht: "Why should we assume that a
`universal' constant is universal? The space-time conditions of
another galaxy are different from ours. The `tunings' are
different. Why should the `constants' be the same? Thus, the
assumption that it has something to do, simply, with time
evolution may be oversimplified. This is one of those assumptions
that is built in to cosmology, and one of the reasons I consider
it not a science. And why assume it is the fine structure
constant that has shifted? In an equation, a change in any
variable can give the same result. Perhaps the speed of light,
changes, or perhaps the frequency."
    David Cherry: "The observations are based on the assumption
that the redshifts of quasars and clouds indicate their
distances. The studies of Halton Arp, Jack Sulentic, William
Tifft, and other astronomers, covered in {21st Century} for more
than a decade, have seriously questioned whether this is always
so. The actual value of the observations, if indeed they can be
confirmed, is the discovery of variation. This loosens things up
a bit. But even this observational advance could not be made
useful within the prevailing paradigm in physics."

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 14:36:59 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Physicist fired for writing book
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:02:12 -0700
From: Speech Rights <SpeechRights aol.com>
To: <aki ix.netcom.com>

Dear fellow scientist,

As you may have heard, Physics Today magazine recently gave a very
punishing review to a book written by physicist Jeff Schmidt:  The
magazine fired him.

Jeff was a staff editor at Physics Today for 19 years -- until his
supervisors saw Disciplined Minds (Rowman & Littlefield, 2000), a
thought-provoking critique of workplace hierarchy and the politically
subordinate role of salaried professionals.  The book uses physicists
and physics graduate school to help illustrate points about
professionals and professional training in general.

Within days of learning about his irreverent book, the higher-ups at
Physics Today dismissed Jeff summarily, apparently using the book as an
opportunity to retaliate against him for his workplace activism and to
ignore his widely praised work for the magazine.  Details of Jeff's
firing are given in the statement below, and can also be found on the
Web at http://disciplined-minds.com

Please join us in protesting Jeff's dismissal, by adding your name to
the letter below.  We will send the letter to Marc H. Brodsky, Executive
Director and CEO of the American Institute of Physics, which publishes
Physics Today, and we will also post it on the Web.

To add your name to the letter, please send an e-mail message to
SpeechRights aol.com.  Include your name and an affiliation, such as
your department and institution.  Please ask others to add their names,
too.

You can also write directly to Marc Brodsky, at brodsky aip.org.  If you
do, please send a copy of your letter to SpeechRights aol.com so that it
can be posted on the Web.  We may send you updates on this issue (if you
prefer not to receive them, just let us know).

Your support will make a big difference.

Sincerely,

Talat Rahman
Fellow of the American Physical Society
University Distinguished Professor
Department of Physics
Kansas State University

George F. Reiter
Professor of Physics
University of Houston

Michael A. Lee
Professor of Physics
Kent State University

-------------------------

Background info about Jeff Schmidt and Disciplined Minds

By Chris Mohr and Jean Kumagai
Former Physics Today staff members

In Disciplined Minds, Jeff Schmidt challenges professionals to view
their role in society in a new and unsettling way.  He argues that
professional work has both technical and political components, and that
salaried professionals are expected to be technically creative but
politically subordinate.  In particular, they are expected to work
creatively to further their employers' world view rather than their
own.  Such subordination does not occur without a fight, the book
maintains, and so the workplace becomes a battleground for the very
identity of the individual, as does graduate school, where professionals
are trained.

Jeff has a PhD in physics from the University of California, Irvine, and
he draws many of his examples from the predicament of employed
physicists and physics graduate students.  (In one chapter, he examines
the physics PhD qualifying examination and shows how the seemingly
value-neutral test identifies candidates who have the "right attitude"
about their work.)  His book details the battle one must fight to be an
independent thinker and to advance one's own social vision in today's
corporate society.  It offers advice on how to make employment more than
an exercise in knowing your place, and how to make graduate school more
than an abusive "intellectual bootcamp" that breaks the individual in to
playing a conventional role.  You can avoid the cynicism and
intellectual timidity that afflicts so many professional employees, he
says, but doing so is not easy, and he discusses how it can be done.

While at Physics Today, Jeff played the most prominent role in staff
efforts to improve working conditions, increase staff participation in
decision-making, and broaden the range of viewpoints allowed in the
magazine.  He also led an effort to force Physics Today to live up to
its advertised claim of being an affirmative-action employer, noting
that the magazine was hiring and training only whites as editors, a
pattern that eventually left the magazine with an all-white staff of 16
professionals and a non-white secretarial staff of 3.

In firing Jeff, the managers at Physics Today cited a statement, at the
beginning of Disciplined Minds, that he had done some work on the book
in his office.  Such use of time constitutes "misconduct," they said. 
But to those familiar with the Physics Today workplace, this charge
looks more like a pretext to get rid of someone who was persistently
pressing for changes in workplace policies.  Indeed, the fact that the
magazine's managers dismissed Jeff after so many years of service not
only without a hearing, but also without asking him a single question
about his work on the book, suggests that they were looking for an
opportunity to remove him.

By the time Disciplined Minds was published, Physics Today's managers
had already tried unsuccessfully to silence Jeff with repressive
measures just short of dismissal.  At one point, for example, they put
gag orders on Jeff and another outspoken staff editor, warning that they
would be fired if they said anything "counterproductive."  These orders
were eventually lifted due to pressure from coworkers.  Perhaps even
more incredibly, Physics Today also banned private conversations in the
workplace, announcing that all conversations between staff members must
be open to monitoring by managers.  In light of this history, Physics
Today's response to Disciplined Minds is less surprising.

The managers at Physics Today apparently thought the book would look so
provocative to others that no one would object if they fired Jeff.  They
were wrong.  To date, there have been many protests: by sixteen former
Physics Today staff members (including us), by the National Writers
Union, and by 160 scholars, writers and educators in a wide range of
fields.  Even the State of Maryland, after an unemployment benefits
hearing, rejected AIP's charge that Jeff's work on the book at the
office constituted misconduct, finding that Physics Today fired Jeff
without evidence that his spare-time writing interfered with his work
for the magazine.  (During the years that Jeff was writing Disciplined
Minds, Physics Today gave him two promotions and 19 salary increases
based explicitly on the quantity and quality of his work for the
magazine.)  Details of the state investigation are posted on the Web at
http://disciplined-minds.com, along with the protest letters, reports in
the press and reviews of the book.

Jeff recently took his case to one of the ten largest law firms in
Washington, D.C.  Lawyers at Dickstein Shapiro Morin & Oshinsky felt
that Physics Today's actions, if left unchallenged, would set a bad
precedent for employees everywhere.  They waived their fees and will do
what they can to bring legal challenges against Physics Today's
repressive behavior, simply for the public good.  Physics Today has
hired what union activists and labor lawyers call the most notorious
union-busting law firm in the country (Jackson, Lewis, Schnitzler &
Krupman) to deal with any legal challenges in this case.  That's
revealing, but it doesn't mean that the law is a likely source of
justice for Jeff.  The law generally favors employers, and so Jeff's
best chance for justice is support from the physics community.

Please consider adding your name to the letter below or writing your own
letter.  You can also spread the word by telling your friends and
colleagues about Jeff's case, by linking your Web site to
http://disciplined-minds.com and, if you are an instructor, by informing
your students about Jeff's situation.

You can contact Jeff at...

Jeff Schmidt
3003 Van Ness Street NW #W406
Washington, DC 20008
jeffschmidt alumni.uci.edu
202-537-3645

(The above is based on information from Jeff and other former Physics
Today employees, and on relevant documents.  You can contact us at
christophermohr hotmail.com and jean_kumagai@hotmail.com)

-------------------------

The letter...

To: Marc H. Brodsky
Executive Director and CEO
American Institute of Physics
One Physics Ellipse
College Park, Maryland 20740

Dear Dr. Brodsky:

As physicists and other scientists concerned about freedom of expression
in the science community, we were troubled to learn of your dismissal of
Jeff Schmidt, who had been an articles editor at Physics Today magazine
for over 19 years.

As we understand it, you fired Jeff after you saw his book, Disciplined
Minds, and in particular after you learned that Jeff had used some of
his spare time at the office for critical writing about education and
employment in physics and other fields.

While we do not necessarily agree with Jeff's views about the situation
of physicists and other salaried professionals, and do not expect you
to, we believe that free debate within the physics community is
healthy.  We expect you to encourage it, not stifle it, especially
because physicists are known for speaking out when physicists
internationally are punished for expressing their views.  Your actions
as head of the American Institute of Physics help to shape society's
view of the physics community.  We urge you to reconsider your decision,
and offer to reinstate Jeff as an editor at Physics Today.

We ask that you publish this letter in Physics Today, to bring our
concerns to the attention of the wider physics community.

Sincerely,

(This letter expresses the views of the undersigned; affiliations are
listed for identification only.  Those of us whose names are marked with
asterisks worked with Jeff directly, as he edited our articles for
publication in Physics Today, and can attest that he does excellent,
conscientious work.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 15:28:08 2001
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:18:27 -0400
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>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Physicist fired for writing book
>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:02:12 -0700
>From: Speech Rights <SpeechRights aol.com>
>To: <aki ix.netcom.com>
>
>Dear fellow scientist,
>
>As you may have heard, Physics Today magazine recently gave a very
>punishing review to a book written by physicist Jeff Schmidt:  The
>magazine fired him.

FYI -- one more piece of the jigsaw puzzle that is leading to the 
inescapable conlusion that the APS organization is a bunch of "Mind 
Nazis" -- not only in new physics and new science, but in elementary 
staff matters involving intellectual freedom.  How else to explain an 
organization that fires Jeff Schimdt and keeps Robert L. Park.

Sincerely,

Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
Infinite Energy Magazine/New Energy Research Lab
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
PO Box 2816 
Concord, NH 03302-2816

www.infinite-energy.com
editor infinite-energy.com
Ph: 603-228-4516
Fx: 603-224-5975

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 18:45:05 2001
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Message-ID: <3B85CF9D.3B0F bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:53:01 -0700
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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See:

http://unisci.com/stories/20013/0823014.htm

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 20:09:02 2001
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August 23, 2001

Thanks for fowarding the message received. I do not know if the original
message has been sent to other newsgroups or not. It certainly needs to be
spread far and wide to cure the scandal. I for one will try to get a copy of
the book written by Jeff Schmidt for reading and review.

-AK-

William Beaty wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2001, Akira Kawasaki wrote:
>
> > Subject: Physicist fired for writing book
>
> I've forwarded your message to PHYS-L, which has ~700 physics educators as
> subscribers.
>
> Has anyone posted this on sci.physics and other newsgroups?
>
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                 http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 20:21:06 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:19:51 EDT
Subject: Warning about free energy devices
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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WARNING WARNING WARNING!
DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO PEOPLE INVOLVED IN "FREE ENERGY"!!!!  Legit researchers 
do exist, but they don't advertize themselves. The people who get publicity 
are scam artists. If someone is selling plans for "real" free-energy devices, 
they are a ripoff. Don't waste your money. Or if someone is selling 
"Dealerships" for a free energy company, hold tight to your wallet and RUN! 
Or, if you've already let them get their hands on your money, ask to see 
proof of the FE device, and see what excuse you're given. (It will be a very 
convincing excuse. Scam artists don't act sneaky. Scam artists survive 
because they seem far MORE honest and honorable than a normal person.) How to 
tell the difference? Easy: if you give them money before receiving a working 
FE device, , then it's a scam, always.  - "Bill Beaty"

So what are all the conferences and upstanding free energy magazines 
providing - except income. If everyone is lying and no one is to be trusted - 
there is no need to buy another magazine or go to another free energy 
conference, correct?

If Bill is correct - there is no further need for these silly e-groups either.

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 21:33:03 2001
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	Shall we take your warning about silly E groups as humor?




On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> WARNING WARNING WARNING!
> DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO PEOPLE INVOLVED IN "FREE ENERGY"!!!!  Legit researchers 
> do exist, but they don't advertize themselves. The people who get publicity 
> are scam artists. If someone is selling plans for "real" free-energy devices, 
> they are a ripoff. Don't waste your money. Or if someone is selling 
> "Dealerships" for a free energy company, hold tight to your wallet and RUN! 
> Or, if you've already let them get their hands on your money, ask to see 
> proof of the FE device, and see what excuse you're given. (It will be a very 
> convincing excuse. Scam artists don't act sneaky. Scam artists survive 
> because they seem far MORE honest and honorable than a normal person.) How to 
> tell the difference? Easy: if you give them money before receiving a working 
> FE device, , then it's a scam, always.  - "Bill Beaty"
> 
> So what are all the conferences and upstanding free energy magazines 
> providing - except income. If everyone is lying and no one is to be trusted - 
> there is no need to buy another magazine or go to another free energy 
> conference, correct?
> 
> If Bill is correct - there is no further need for these silly e-groups either.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Chris Arnold
> http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 21:48:48 2001
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From: "Keith Nagel" <knagel gis.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: Warning about free energy devices
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:54:50 -0400
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Hi All.

Chris Arnold writes:
>So what are all the conferences and upstanding free energy magazines
>providing - except income. If everyone is lying and no one is to be
trusted -
>there is no need to buy another magazine or go to another free energy
>conference, correct?
>If Bill is correct - there is no further need for these silly e-groups
either.

On the contrary, the e-groups become VERY necessary when you
take Bill's comments to heart. The one thing a fraud hates
is his victims communicating with one another. Then the
pattern of abuse is established and the fraud is identified.

I am reminded of the effect Usenet has had on the Church
of Scientology, by way of example.

People think that a great government conspiracy exists
to prevent "free energy" from becoming reality. No such
conspiracy is necessary.

All that is required to achieve the goal of "free energy"
is to look inside for the answers. The messiah's
come and gone and we're still in the pickles. Time to
consider doing it for ourselves?

K.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 23 23:13:17 2001
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On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> So what are all the conferences and upstanding free energy magazines 
> providing - except income. 

Exactly.  I don't subscribe to magazines except the ones operating at a
loss, like ESJ and JSE.  And I wouldn't be suprised if some conference
promotors are after your wallet, so be leery.  (Hey, the recent Keelynet
conference did not come close to breaking even.  But then that wasn't the
point.) 


> If everyone is lying and no one is to be trusted - 
> there is no need to buy another magazine or go to another free energy 
> conference, correct?
> 
> If Bill is correct - there is no further need for these silly e-groups either.

Which e-groups are after your wallet?  Oh, right, there have been such
things, groups who are selling stuff, and any research gets buried under
the constant self promotion.




((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 00:09:49 2001
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From: "Peter Fred" <pbfred worldshare.net>
To: "Vortex-L" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:00:37 -0400
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>Colin Quinney wrote:

>I note that on Frolov's propulsion page above that some heat/gravity
>experiments have been performed by A. Shegolev. This may verify some
>experiments with anomalous force development from heat flow done by-  Nick
>Reiter, and Peter Fred.


Colin,

Are you aware of Nargarjuna's patent at

http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=WO0109509&CY=ec&LG=en&DB=EPD
and
http://www.dalli.com/india/ref1059.html?


He is somehow using heat to produce antigravity.  I am curious as
to what you think about this patent.  I am also curious of what you 
think about the relation of heat to gravity.

Regards,

Peter Fred

pbfred worldshare.net

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 00:35:47 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Viktor
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:34:24 +1000
Organization: Improving
Message-ID: <3q0cot0lbt96nhqf8c9ev0l5h0042uom3p 4ax.com>
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In reply to  Dennis Curnow's message of Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:03:00 +1000:

>G'Day Gang,
>
>I've just joined the list and am interested in Viktor Schauberger's
>work. Am I on the right list for this sort of discussion??
[snip]
It would probably be more on topic than most other posts to the list. ;)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 02:07:42 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 04:04:41 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: The continuing Dennis Lee story
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>At 02:45 AM 8/23/01 -0500, I posted
>>Fellow Vortexians;
>>aware of what I hope will be a forthcoming test. Who knows, I may 
>>have to eat crow.

And Charles Ford responded

>Probably not....
>
Here is where the wool is in the "wool over the eyes" demonstration. 
He is of course

Are you telling me that Dennis tested the input power with the 
generator off load and then loaded it up? He then tested the output 
power and neglected to test the input power? Is that what you are 
telling me? Terry, who attended the show when Dennis was in the Twin 
Cities, was so impressed by Dennis' stick that he purchased the $15 
package. I'm suprised that he was so gullable. If this is the case, 
I'm going to redouble my efforts to find some sucker to purchase that 
distributorship.

>marketed in less then a year with a poultry fraction of a fraction 
>of the monies that Dennis has conned out of the gullible.

Amen

>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 05:23:18 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:22:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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The point is,

I contacted Eugene Mallove and expected him to review my site before we 
talked.  A day or so later we did talk, and he flat out told me that nothing 
I presented as proof would be believed.  No video clips - no data - no 
patent, whatever I told him was considered suspect.  I told him nothing but 
the truth and he would have none of it.  To top it all off - he admitted he 
didn't bother to read anything I posted at my web site. 

It is Mallove that is publishing infinite energy magazine and he expects 
respect, yet flatly refutes any evidence I claim to have because of what - he 
never bothered to look at what I was saying.  Great investigating - good job, 
keep publishing.

If nobody wants to believe I can use 47 MGOe magnets in an electric pulsed 
motor without the motor heating up to the curie point - OK.  If you don't 
know what implications this has on power production - OK.  If the high energy 
sparks produced are useless to you, OK.  If negative entropy is not 
interesting to you, OK.  But if nobody believes it's possible and everyone 
believes I have made all this up, I must also have deceived the patent office 
- Thanks.

As for these groups - everyone needs a diversion.

As for free energy promoters and magazines - got make a living somehow, 
nobody said it had to honest. 

Best Regards,
Chris
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 07:58:34 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:49:04 -0400
To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.1010823230752.2223B-100000 eskimo.com>
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William Beaty wrote:

>Exactly.  I don't subscribe to magazines except the ones operating at a
>loss, like ESJ and JSE.  And I wouldn't be suprised if some conference
>promotors are after your wallet, so be leery.  (Hey, the recent Keelynet
>conference did not come close to breaking even.  But then that wasn't the 
>point.)

I sympathize with this point of view, but it has grave drawbacks. When you 
take information for such sources, you are paying wealthy people for their 
opinions. Magazines & conferences cannot be run without money. Those which 
are not self-supporting must have "angels" and other backers, often 
anonymous. Most of these people are philanthropists. The ones I personally 
know are generous, wonderful people, but you don't know that, do you? They 
could be weirdos with an agenda, like the folks who run "21st Century" 
magazine.

In some countries, in some eras, legislatures and government offices 
paid  little money. The idea was to avoid attracting people who wanted to 
hold office strictly to earn money. This was the rule in ancient China, and 
in some modern U.S. bodies including the Georgia State Legislature. You 
want idealistic people who work for honor or patriotism. That is the ideal, 
but in practice two problems arise:

1. Only wealthy people run for office. Poor and middle class people cannot 
afford to take part in government.

2. When less wealthy people are elected, or rich legislators start feeling 
pinched, they are wide open to bribery. In China and many third world 
countries government offices and police departments do not pay a living 
wage, so the officers make up the difference with bribes and extortion.

This attitude towards money and remuneration goes back to the Chinese 
Mandarin contempt for money as "filthy lucre." (Arthur Clarke says they 
also considered labor beneath their dignity, including experiments, which 
is why the scientific revolution did not begin in China.) The attitude was 
shared by the British and Japanese elites for centuries, and even into the 
present. It permeates scientific research. Many scientists potter along 
doing "ivory tower" multi-universe string theory projects instead of 
practical research that might lead to something beneficial and profitable, 
even though practical research may bring fruitful intellectual progress, 
and the ivory tower projects may be intellectually sterile.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 09:06:26 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
Message-ID: <42.1942c87c.28b7d53c aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:05:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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In a message dated 8/23/2001 11:32:47 PM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:

> Shall we take your warning about silly E groups as humor? 

There is nothing funny about any group of people claiming to be of scientific 
mind, debating over conjecture and theory - while smugly ignoring solid facts 
just because it seems impossible.

Who - other than Bill even bothered to fire up a VDG and do a series of tests 
before they began flapping their yap, spitting out conjecture or worse - 
questioning the sanity of the experiment in the first place? 

The truth isn't so funny anymore - is it John?

No wonder Morton wont talk to anyone -  
it's just not worth the effort.

Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 10:01:31 2001
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Message-ID: <3B8688DD.C1A06225 bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:03:25 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:
> 
> The point is,

The point is . . .

If someone has truly invented a free energy machine they will
need money to produce it and sell it.  If you *really* have such
a device, there is a very wealthy European just waiting to
finance you.  Contact the people at this web page and arrange to
have your machine tested:

http://www.earthtech.org/contact/default.htm

If your invention can be commercially developed to provide free
energy, you will find all the funds you need here.

Regards,

Terry

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 10:23:07 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:21:11 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Free advice for Mr. Hypercom59
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Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

>I contacted Eugene Mallove and expected him to review my site before we 
>talked.  A day or so later we did talk, and he flat out told me that 
>nothing I presented as proof would be believed.

I have reviewed the site briefly, and I agree that nothing will be 
believed. Please Note Carefully, Mr. Hypercom59, that is NOT the same as 
saying that everything on your site is a lie, or that we know you are 
wrong. It means your web page is not convincing. If your goal is to 
persuade people the machine is real, you will have to work on both the 
experiments and the presentation. If you do not care what people think . . 
. why not delete the page and stop posting messages here?


>No video clips - no data - no patent, whatever I told him was considered 
>suspect.

I doubt he used the word "suspect." I would say unconvincing. But as a 
matter of fact all claims are always suspect, by default. In science you 
are guilty until proven innocent. A claims is false until you prove beyond 
doubt that it is true. The only way to do this is to have many other 
research labs replicate your result independently, and then openly publish 
their results. Your own measurements are suspect, because people often fool 
themselves with wishful thinking.


>I told him nothing but the truth and he would have none of it.

No one will believe a statement is truth just because you say it and show a 
few videos. The claim has to independently verified.


>   To top it all off - he admitted he
>didn't bother to read anything I posted at my web site.

I would not bother to read every word either. First, because much of it is 
technical jargon which is apparently over my head (or possibly 
meaningless), and second because much of the content is poorly described 
common knowledge, such as this section:

"The Atomic Vacuum. All matter is nearly 100% vacuum, no matter what the 
atomic number may be. To better explain this view we must consider the 
perpetual motion of the electron & this motion can only continue unimpeded 
if the electrons were confined to a vacuum. . . . [bla, bla, bla]"

We know that. What is your point?

This section is doubletalk. It is similar to what I have heard from dozens 
of others with claims like yours:

"FREE ENERGY IS A FANTASY Free energy has been sought for hundreds of years 
and perpetual motion has been hot on its heals. An Internet search of "free 
energy" will reveal a list of crackpots that will astonish you. . . .

The device I have invented is simply, a "New Technology" and not a Free 
Energy Machine. It is not just a motor or a generator, it is both. It can 
recycle its input power and it displays what has been called "magnetic 
cooling". . . ."

The performance you describe, and concepts like "recycling input power" and 
"magnetic cooling" are claims of free energy. Ordinary electric motors the 
size of the ones you show are already 95% efficient when fully loaded; you 
cannot significantly improve them except by violating the conservation of 
energy. Whether you like it or not, or will admit it, you are making a 
typical crackpot free energy claim. That does not necessarily mean you are 
wrong, but the fact that you are trying to distance yourself from "free 
energy" and you pretending this is not a free energy claim hurts your 
credibility. Either you do not understand basic physics, or you are lying 
about your own claims.


>It is Mallove that is publishing infinite energy magazine and he expects
>respect, yet flatly refutes any evidence I claim to have because of what - 
>he never bothered to look at what I was saying.  Great investigating - 
>good job, keep publishing.

Mallove has not investigated anything yet. An investigation is when a third 
party (Mallove or someone else) independently tests your gadget. I suggest 
you arrange something like that. Perhaps you have already done it, and you 
forgot to mention it on the web page, or I missed that part.

The reason Mallove has not investigated is simple. He does not have the 
time or the money to chase down claims like yours. No one does. Hundreds, 
perhaps thousands of other people have made claims at least as strong as 
yours, backed by the level of data you provide, including the videos, the 
theories, and the doubletalk about free energy. To be blunt, people like 
you are a dime a dozen. There is no way a person, magazine or organization 
could verify all these claims. That would be like trying to interview every 
dot-com wannabee guy with a business plan in his back pocket. You will have 
to make a stronger case for yourself, and then, if possible, find a 
researcher at a university or someplace like that who is willing to test 
your device. If you cannot do this, or you will not do it, do not complain 
that the world ignores you.

Also, if you want enhanced credibility, you should remove the irrelevant 
sections about remote viewing. Most people, including me, think that sort 
of thing is crackpot foolishness. We assume that if you believe it, you 
must be ignorant. We may be wrong, but if you want us to take the machine 
seriously, you should not alienate us by associating it with remote viewing.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 11:35:37 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
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Hi Peter,

I believe that heat and gravity are related (somewhat), but that's all. I
have only a few ideas on how they are related but insufficient information
to model, or to speak on.

I had a look at RAO K. NAGARJUNA's patent.  The idea expressed here,
http://www.dalli.com/india/ref1059.html
may or may not be antigravity. It may be anomalous force development due to
heat flow. Has it advanced beyond the drawing stage? Antigravity patents
generally mean more to me when the inventor has a reputation as a successful
experimenter, yet even then I still prefer to see experimental results-
hopefully something that can be replicated.

The success of our ideas tends to spring from our models-  The closer our
models are to how nature works, the more successful generally is the
experiment. I once personally became so wedded to a particular model to the
point where I couldn't see the artefacts. I think my EGO got somehow
involved. So now- I merely gather facts and do the odd experiment. I see an
inventor or successful experimenter such as yourself but I only note
anomalous force developing with how heat was applied to various forms or
shapes. I'm naturally suspicious about buoyancy artefacts but it is very
interesting nevertheless. I file this as possibly important information-
that geometry may play a part, and the next time I saw geometry/curved
surfaces, I noted a certain resemblance and so brought it to the attention
of Vo.

Ross Tessien's model seems to include temperature as a cause of gravity.
Aether streams carrying momentum. (Mechanique Celeste) I don't know what to
make of all that. It makes me think of Phlogiston. His "models" are
completely different from other successful experimenters.

The good experiments- and similarities, are what I look for. They tend to
reveal a piece of nature.

Best Regards,
Colin Quinney

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Fred" <pbfred worldshare.net>
To: "Vortex-L" <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:00 AM
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)


> >Colin Quinney wrote:
>
> >I note that on Frolov's propulsion page above that some heat/gravity
> >experiments have been performed by A. Shegolev. This may verify some
> >experiments with anomalous force development from heat flow done by-
Nick
> >Reiter, and Peter Fred.
>
>
> Colin,
>
> Are you aware of Nargarjuna's patent at
>
> http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=WO0109509&CY=ec&LG=en&DB=EPD
> and
> http://www.dalli.com/india/ref1059.html?
>
>
> He is somehow using heat to produce antigravity.  I am curious as
> to what you think about this patent.  I am also curious of what you
> think about the relation of heat to gravity.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Fred
>
> pbfred worldshare.net
>


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More Free Advice to Mr.  Chris Arnold:

Let me add to the appropriate remarks that were made to Chris Arnold by 
Jed Rothwell "Free advice to...."

>The point is,
>
>I contacted Eugene Mallove and expected him to review my site before we 
>talked.  

When I called you, amidst a very busy schedule, I told you specifically 
that I had not seen your web site yet and had wanted from you just an 
initial review of what you had -- orally.  I am quite a busy man and you 
should understand that you are one of dozens of contacts from all over 
the world that bombard us on a daily and weekly basis.

>A day or so later we did talk, and he flat out told me that nothing 
>I presented as proof would be believed.  

You are HIGHLY distorting what I said, implying that I made a judgment 
one way or another about what you had!  I made no such judgment. Period.  
I was most open to considering what you might have.  I had not followed 
your discussion in Vortex carefully -- I do not have time to deal with 
all the smog as well as good stuff that flows through Voretex.   I was 
most interested in hearing about your claims of cooling in wires.  All I 
stated to you was that I recommended that YOU provide a video tape 
demonstration as a possible preliminary to deciding whether to 
investigate further. You kept saying that I should examine your 
five-second video clip on your web site and that that would be 
convincing. I told you that no matter what that clip or video tape 
showed, it would prove nothing. All it would do is suggest  -- possibly 
-- whether your claims  might be worth further investigation.  We have 
many tapes sent to us that SHOW alleged over-unity and even 
self-sustaining devices, but these shadowy tapes prove nothing. 

Bear in mind, Mr. Arnold, that I am quite aware of devices that ARE 
over-unity. I am also aware of devices from the cold fusion and aether 
energy field that ARE  self-sustaining or HAVE self-sustained.  These 
devices have been evaluated to my satisfaction -- by ME.  The credibility 
of a remote viewer, such as yourself is far less -- a priori -- than 
someone who achieved over-unity by experimentation and use of theory. (I 
do not reject the efficacy of all remote viewing, by the way.)  This is 
not to say that YOUR device is not real. It very well may be. I cannot 
tell, but I told you how to begin to prove it to me. You failed -- 
miserably,  to do the most elementary scientific test.

>No video clips - no data - no 
>patent, whatever I told him was considered suspect. 


This is not what I said I did not say that ANYTHING you had was "suspect" 
-- in fact I urged you to send me a demo tape and you refused. That's 
fine with me. There are dozens more who act just like you.

But this is what you DID tell me:  You arrogantly kept asserting that 
because you had a patent, you did not have to prove anything to me or to 
anyone else. You stated that in the future you would require someone who 
was investigating your device -- in person -- would have to sign,  in 
advance, an agreement that required them to fund you IF your device was 
found to be effective in some manner or another (presumably over/unity, 
or why would there be interest). 

This group should know that I specifically asked Mr. Arnold to buy or 
borrow a Fluke thermocouple meter to compare the temperature of the parts 
of his device that he says gets colder when current runs through  them. 
That would be a remarkable finding. But Arnold seemed to be very bothered 
by this. He said that he had spent enough money already investigating his 
device. He told me that the thermal imaging camera was adequate. I 
countered by saying that digital readouts from a thermocouple display as 
the testing proceeded would be more important. The relative color 
intensities of imaging cameras are complex issues to evaluate. 
Thermocouple NUMBERS are not. The measurements might still be faulty, but 
at least they would tell the outside world whether further evaluation was 
in order.

>I told him nothing but 
>the truth and he would have none of it.  To top it all off - he admitted he 
>didn't bother to read anything I posted at my web site. 

I have clarified that, Mr. Arnold. It should be clear to this group that 
you are in error and are blowing smoke.
>
>It is Mallove that is publishing infinite energy magazine and he expects 
>respect, yet flatly refutes any evidence I claim to have because of what - 
>he 
>never bothered to look at what I was saying.  Great investigating - good 
>job, 
>keep publishing.

This is hollow talk. You probably have no idea whatsoever about the 
carefully described cold fusion and other over-unity experiments and 
devices that are discussed in Infinite Energy. You are not, in fact, a 
subscriber, though I suppose you might have obtained a copy on occasion 
from a newsstand.
>
>If nobody wants to believe I can use 47 MGOe magnets in an electric pulsed 
>motor without the motor heating up to the curie point - OK.  If you don't 
>know what implications this has on power production - OK.  If the high 
>energy 
>sparks produced are useless to you, OK.  If negative entropy is not 
>interesting to you, OK.  

We had a whole damned issue of our magazine devoted to the technical 
discussion of the flaws in the Second Law, which I am convinced are  
large enough to drive a tank through (Issue #37).   Experiments from the 
US, Canada and China were discussed which reveal such flaws.  Perhaps you 
should read what other experimenters and theorists have said about the 
Second Law before steaming and huffing so much?


>But if nobody believes it's possible and everyone 
>believes I have made all this up, I must also have deceived the patent 
>office 
>- Thanks.
>
>As for these groups - everyone needs a diversion.
>
>As for free energy promoters and magazines - got make a living somehow, 
>nobody said it had to honest. 

My integrity is secure, as far as I am concerned, but I do wonder about 
folks who want to pan off their devices without adequate testing or 
evaluation -- just huffing and puffing, "Why oh why doesn't anybody 
believe me? I have such a lovely web site, and my video clips prove what 
I have!"

>
>Best Regards,
>Chris
>http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html

Sincerely,

Dr. Eugene F. Mallove, Editor-in-Chief
Infinite Energy Magazine/New Energy Research Lab
Cold Fusion Technology, Inc.
PO Box 2816 
Concord, NH 03302-2816

www.infinite-energy.com
editor infinite-energy.com
Ph: 603-228-4516
Fx: 603-224-5975
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 12:21:01 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:17:30 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Viktor
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>G'Day Gang,
>
>I've just joined the list and am interested in Viktor Schauberger's
>work. Am I on the right list for this sort of discussion??
>
>Cheers
>
>Dennis

see http://www.vortexscience.com

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 12:28:19 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:26:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> As for free energy promoters and magazines - got make a living somehow, 
> nobody said it had to honest. 

On the contrary, "bend-over-backwards honesty" in fringe science is
absolutely crucial.  Only an experimenter of impeccable personal character
has any prayer of breaking through the barriers of disbelief.  If the
above is really your attitude regarding honesty, don't be suprised if even
fellow "crackpots" won't trust a thing you claim.

Honesty is required NOT for any abstract moral reason.  Instead there are
some good ones:  fringe science is full of crazies who are fooling
themselves, and only rigorous SELF-HONESTY can keep us from becoming one
of them.  If people see that you're not perfectly honest, they will
imagine that you're simply fooling yourself.  Also, this field is full of
scam artists whose every statement is a lie, yet they are very good at
hiding this and deflecting accusations.  As a result, people become
hypersensitive to small bits of evidence of dishonesty.  If you are not
impeccably honest, many people will assume that you're one of the scammers
who are only after their money, and you'll be treated accordingly.  And
finally, the world is full of raving pseudo-skeptics in positions of
power.  To defeat them, you have to be squeaky clean, because in the eyes
of most onlookers your smallest flaw means that your entire case is
imperfect.  Slight dishonesty is the crack in your defenses that
pseudoskeptics can use to easily defeat you. 

And don't even get me STARTED on the need for humility!   

:)


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 12:37:30 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:36:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Free advice for Mr. Hypercom59
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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Jed,
After that long winded dissertation - it is obvious you completely missed my 
point. 

Eugene had plenty of questions which could have been answered if he just 
looked at the webpage.

If you can't understand the jargon - I can help that. If you don't know the 
meaning of something - don't slam me for double talking, point out the word 
and I will explain it. As for atomic vacuum - not everybody knows it.

If I distance myself from free energy it's because all involved are rude, 
pompous and all knowing. What do they know - negative entropy does not exist, 
so that's that! And that is the only point I must highlight to "prove" it is 
worth while to stay the F away from free energy and the crowd of lurkers that 
swarm around the topic.

As for the rest of what you said, it wasn't worth reading every word.

Alienate us by mentioning Remote Viewing - what in F if wrong with you?  If I 
am caught in one lie, then everything is suspect - that's why I only bothered 
to "TELL THE TRUTH."  Obviously something you are not able or capable of 
comprehending.

Is it stupid of anyone to blindly ignore the truth, is it scientific or just 
an indication you are too lazy or frightened to comprehend the reality of RV? 
 What else are you not aware of????

And why do you keep double sending your messages, as if once is not enough?

Best Regards,
Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 12:46:15 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <6a.1283ac2a.28b721d7 aol.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20010824102817.00a9c6b8@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:45:08 -0400
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Hi Jed,

Coincidentally, I just received a few papers, including an editorial all
excerpted from  '21st Century', Spring- 2001:  "Should the Law of Gravity Be
Repealed? The Suppressed Electrodynamics Of Ampere-Gauss-Weber"

I note that Thomas Phipps is on the Scientific Advisory Board. I understand
Phipps to have similar sentiments to yours (and to Eugene Mallove's) in that
nature can only be discovered through experimental proofs, and that politics
should play no part. And I wholeheartedly agree with that view. Being
totally unfamiliar with the magazine itself however, I'm naturally curious
as to your reference, >"They could be weirdos with an agenda, like the folks
who run "21st Century" magazine."

Could you please enlighten me as to this agenda? My *first* impression of
the magazine was quite favourable. However-  I'm open minded enough that I
surely would like to hear your take. Who specifically runs the magazine?
What is their agenda, and why consider them as weird? TIA.

Colin Quinney


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jed Rothwell" <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>; <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices


>
> I sympathize with this point of view, but it has grave drawbacks. When you
> take information for such sources, you are paying wealthy people for their
> opinions. Magazines & conferences cannot be run without money. Those which
> are not self-supporting must have "angels" and other backers, often
> anonymous. Most of these people are philanthropists. The ones I personally
> know are generous, wonderful people, but you don't know that, do you? They
> could be weirdos with an agenda, like the folks who run "21st Century"
> magazine.



---
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 13:29:45 2001
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Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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Colin Quinney wrote:

>Being totally unfamiliar with the magazine itself however, I'm naturally 
>curious as to your reference, >"They could be weirdos with an agenda, like 
>the folks who run "21st Century" magazine."
>
>Could you please enlighten me as to this agenda?

The magazine was founded and run by Lyndon LaRouche as part of his 
political organization. I do not know if it still is. He is a peculiar 
fellow with a cult-like following. I once saw him speak on television for a 
half-hour. I would describe his views as a mixture of Leninist communism 
and neo-Nazi far right attacks on homosexuals, welfare recipients, Jews, 
Japanese, black people, white people, capital, labor, and Just About 
Everyone Else. Apparently he began life as a communist, and he still sounds 
like one to me.

The magazine is right about many things, and a stopped clock is right twice 
a day. The former editor, Carol White, knew a lot about about cold fusion, 
and some of their articles were quite good, but she did give me the creeps 
at times.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 13:34:51 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:11:44 -0400
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Subject: Re: Free advice for Mr. Hypercom59
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Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

>After that long winded dissertation . . .

Cut out the parts where I quote you, and it will be short.


>If you can't understand the jargon - I can help that. If you don't know 
>the meaning of something - don't slam me for double talking, point out the 
>word and I will explain it.

Okay, explain how any electric motor can be significantly better than 
existing motors, which are already 95% efficient. An extra 2 or 3% will not 
matter to the customers. They can save much more energy elsewhere.


>If I distance myself from free energy it's because all involved are rude,
>pompous and all knowing.

Forgive me for saying this, but that is how I would describe your words. As 
I said, you need to work on presentation.


>Alienate us by mentioning Remote Viewing - what in F if wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me, and nothing is wrong with Remote Viewing. 
However, if you wish to make a good impression on potential investors and 
customers you are well advised to chop that subject out of your web page. 
Your claims about motors are controversial enough.


>If I am caught in one lie, then everything is suspect - that's why I only 
>bothered  to "TELL THE TRUTH."

Who has caught you in one lie? Why do you TELL THE TRUTH (as you see it) 
about Remote Viewing here, in this context? It has nothing to do with motor.


>Obviously something you are not able or capable of  comprehending.

You'd be surprised!


>And why do you keep double sending your messages, as if once is not enough?

I don't "keep doing" it. I did it once, in this case. You seem to have 
difficulty with tense and syntax.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 14:17:33 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Aug 24, 2001
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 16:35:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 24 Aug 01   Washington, DC

Your only Condit/Levy-free news source!

1. NMD: WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DEFEAT A MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM? 
Do a rain dance. Philip Coyle, former head of the Pentagon's test
and evaluation office, says the effectiveness of X-band radar
would be seriously weakened by rain, hail or even high clouds. 
Analysts are now insisting that the Pentagon must test the X-band
radar in rain, and North Korea is recruiting meteorologists.

2. ABM "DEADLINE": WN REVEALS THE REAL DATE FOR U.S. WITHDRAWAL. 
The big news on Wednesday was that Russia was given a November
deadline to agree to U.S. development of a national missile
defense, otherwise the U.S. would announce withdrawal from the
ABM Treaty, with or without Russia (WN 27 Jul 01).  Big deal, ABM
is dead either way.  The source of the story was John Bolton, the
chief arms control negotiator, who said the two sides should show
progress by the time Putin visits Bush on his Texas ranch in
November.  Thursday, Bolton began backtracking.  He had predicted
U.S withdrawal from the treaty would take place in "months rather
than years."  Reporters thought that meant a few months, but it
literally means 23 months or less, Bolton explained, since
"years" means at least two.  Friday, President Bush stepped in to
clarify things: a) the U.S. will withdraw, b) there is no fixed
deadline, c) we would like to have Russia join us.  WN predicts
the withdrawal announcement will indeed come in November.

3. SENATOR NO: WHEN DOES WHAT'S NEW APPLAUD A HELMS DECISION? 
When Helms decides to retire.  The unreconstructed Senator from
South Carolina made it official: he will not run for another
term, which would start in 2003.  It's probably not a coincidence
that his announcement came just as the White House was making it
clear that the hated ABM treaty will be history by 2003. Jesse
hates a lot of things, but nothing more than the ABM treaty.

4. NMD PROTESTS: THE FULL WEIGHT OF THE LAW.  In the past,
protesters arrested at the NMD test site have faced misdemeanor
trespassing charges, but a group from Greenpeace was shocked to
learn last week that for their role in a demonstration waged last
month they face felony charges of "conspiracy to violate a safety
zone."  The maximum penalty would be six years in prison and
fines of $250,000.  Such harsh treatment is unusual for protests
not resulting in violence or the destruction of property. 
                                        
5. THE AUGUST EFFECT: MILLIONS PLAYED, THERE WAS NO WINNER.  In
addition to Condit/Levy, the huge coverage this week was Power
Ball.  WN suggests that would-be players just send us their
dollar.  The odds of winning are exactly the same to within eight
significant figures.


THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 15:03:58 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
Message-ID: <103.81b6671.28b82924 aol.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:03:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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In a message dated 8/24/2001 3:09:17 PM Central Daylight Time, 
editor infinite-energy.com writes:

 

Specifically - you flat out told me that absolutely "NO" video I made would 
be believed due to possible digital alteration technology, PERIOD.

<Bear in mind, Mr. Arnold, that I am quite aware of devices that ARE 
over-unity. I am also aware of devices from the cold fusion and aether 
energy field that ARE  self-sustaining or HAVE self-sustained.  These 
devices have been evaluated to my satisfaction -- by ME.>

Then where are they - we as a race are living on a polluted planet, NEED what 
you claim to have tested. So why don't we have access to this technology 
right now?

<You failed -- miserably,  to do the most elementary scientific test.>

By my using a thermal imager instead of a $100 thermocouple?

< in fact I urged you to send me a demo tape and you refused>

That's correct - I don't have the time to make one just for you - nor did I 
feel the need to bother when you told me that no video evidence would be 
believed. FYI, I did take the time to burn a CD copy "for free" for an EE. He 
had never seen anything like it nor could he help answer any questions.  

<This group should know that I specifically asked Mr. Arnold to buy or 
borrow a Fluke thermocouple meter to compare the temperature of the parts 
of his device that he says gets colder when current runs through  them. 
That would be a remarkable finding. But Arnold seemed to be very bothered 
by this.>

Look at it this way - if you don't know the difference in quality between a 
thermal imager and a low tech thermocouple, any tests performed by you should 
be suspect.

If you have seen and personally tested overunity devices, where are they? 
What are they, how much are they and where are the verified test results? 
Personally I just think you got flustered and let it slip out, not really 
intending to lie about it - it just happened.

So while everybody wants me to keep spending money on testing this and that 
idea -    I tried to sell videos to get some financial support to keep the 
test going, plenty of people called me a conman for attempting to profit from 
my hard work. Very  
scientific. Now that I have done all the work and proven to the people that 
needed the real proof - those at the patent office, I am satisfied with 
myself. I am not satisfied with one person I have contacted from any list or 
organization. 

Again on thermal couples

<The measurements might still be faulty, but 
at least they would tell the outside world whether further evaluation was in 
order.>

That makes no sense at all. 

If someone wants to ship me there thermocouple device, I will wrap a wire 
around it and start the machine and post the reading. Not that anyone would 
believe what I posted anyway.  Of course I would ship the device back to the 
owner insured - I certainly don't need such primitive equipment on my shelf.

<"Why oh why doesn't anybody believe me? I have such a lovely web site, and 
my video clips prove what I have!">

That is really childish Eugene,
Actually the quality of my site sucks, but I had no extra cash to pay someone 
for a pretty one - I just went for the basics, like posting the truth. As for 
my video clips, they are short but prove that high speed intermittent contact 
is what is driving the device and what is pictured - is the same as published 
in my US Patent. The Dense Plasma Focus video looks like an arc welder - 
except it is driving the motor with each plasma pulse. 



Enough about me - where are the proof positive overunity devices you have 
tested doc, where are the commercial models and when in the heck are you 
getting so defensive?  

There is a good reason why I demanded a contract before I would submit to 
full disclosure testing - people are not to be trusted. The contract was 
simple - only if I prove that my device does the impossible as I claim and 
works like I claim and how I claim, R&D money will fund further research. 
That's tricky, isn't it? If I prove it works I get funding - if I am proven 
in error, (scientifically) then I get no money. These demands are minimal and 
only insure that adequate testing will be done by qualified people and 
strictly EXCLUDE shoddy science or shady characters of dubious intentions. 

<But this is what you DID tell me: You arrogantly kept asserting that because 
you had a patent, you did not have to prove anything to me or to anyone else.>

Almost. Now that I have the patent I no longer have the strict demands for 
secrecy I had before, and one experimenter is building one in Germany, an 
Olaf Berrans (from JLN labs). To be even more specific - "now that I have the 
patent I don't need any F_cking testing to offer as proof to the patent 
office." I also mentioned that I offered to build Olaf a complete device 
including working fusion chamber for $100,000 - but he declined - there is a 
little more to it, but it does not matter now. (At the time I expected to 
acquire international patents but without funds, I could not.) You said you 
did not blame him. Does that ring any bells? Besides that you insisted again 
that no proof I offered would be believed anyway.  

I now only offer licenses on the high efficiency electric motor aspect of my 
patent - there will be no further discussion of anything else.

By telling only the truth on everything from my RV experiences to how the 
device was invented and how it works, I knew I would not make any friends - I 
was not wrong either.

Chris
http://members.aol.comhypercom59/index.html

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 15:34:37 2001
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:34:00 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:


>Specifically - you flat out told me that absolutely "NO" video I made 
>would be believed due to possible digital alteration technology, PERIOD.

Good point. Hadn't thought of it. Still, a video would be a start.


><You failed -- miserably,  to do the most elementary scientific test.>
>
>By my using a thermal imager instead of a $100 thermocouple?

Right! The elementary test comes first. In fact, I'll see Mallove and raise 
him: I want to see a mercury thermometer. Why trust a thermocouple?


>Look at it this way - if you don't know the difference in quality between 
>a thermal imager and a low tech thermocouple . . .

Yo, Hypercom: repeat after me. Low tech GOOOOD. Hi tech BAAAD. (Model this 
on the original Frankenstein movie, where he says: "Fire gooood . . .)


>There is a good reason why I demanded a contract before I would submit to 
>full disclosure testing - people are not to be trusted.

And the patent serves what purpose?

- Jed

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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:49:56 EDT
Subject: Re: Free advice for Mr. Hypercom59
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In a message dated 8/24/2001 4:12:15 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jedrothwell infinite-energy.com writes:

< Okay, explain how any electric motor can be significantly better than 
 existing motors, which are already 95% efficient. An extra 2 or 3% will not 
 matter to the customers. They can save much more energy elsewhere. >

Here goes - by removing the parts that cause hysteresis and inductive 
heating, then by installing 47MGOe magnets that will use the electromagnetic 
forces more efficiently. The only problem is how. Answer is by using a system 
that does not allow heat to form in the stator laminates or electromagnetic 
coil. This happens in the no-laminate patent # 6,271,614.  The 
electromagnetic coil will not radiate heat and with no laminates, no eddy 
currents and no hysteresis.  The patent office allowed me to say no laminates 
only after I showed them that Electric Boat came out with a laminate-less 
electric motor design. (over one year after I contacted EB) The point here is 
they completely disallowed my saying "no laminates" until I showed them this 
government contractor was also building motors with no laminates.  It was 
just something everyone was taught to do as a rule. Besides the high MGOe 
magnets will cause the laminates to drag as they cut through the magnetic 
field resulting in internal mechanical losses. 

In a common electric motor there is a good deal of electromagnetic shielding 
of the stator laminates during operation, but in a pulsed system the stator 
would be exposed to the full permanent magnetic field for the time the 
contacts are not firing - which can be considerable and cause stator drag. 
Figure 3 in my patent will show contact separation. Removal of the laminates 
is the cure, and the weight saved can be converted to torque. Also, in the 
pulsed system - the laminates would stay magnetically active too long, 
causing a horribly slow rotation of the stator. A quick collapse of the 
magnetic field is desired, which is not possible with laminates retaining 
magnetic properties even momentarily.

<Who has caught you in one lie? Why do you TELL THE TRUTH (as you see it) 
about Remote Viewing here, in this context? It has nothing to do with motor.>

Why cover up the facts, and when I am asked how in heck I came up with this - 
any other answer is a lie. I am not ashamed nor frightened by what people 
will say, and my story will not change either. 

I will only allow major companies, complete review and device testing for the 
purposes of licensing. That way everyone is safe from deception.

Best Regards,
Chris

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 16:40:44 2001
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Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:41:46 -0400
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Pete and all;

   Yes, I tried to make some sense of it too.  It IS a novel design, though
I agree with Colin; there doesn't seem to be any reported experimental
results for it.

   Now if one scans the text and description, one finds an interesting
premise that should be easy to test.  The inventor claims that an empty
inner sphere that is free to move within the liquid will float upward, and
rest against the top of the outer sphere.  OK, fair enough, it seems
intuitive.  But now the claim is that when the liquid medium between the
spheres is elevated in it's temperature, thus exerting an extreme pressure
on both inner and outer spheres, the inner sphere  leaves the top and
centers itself within the medium.

   Maybe this is more than a thought experiment.  But I see no reason why
this would be anticipated.  Even if the pressure between the spheres was
millions of pounds, the total of forces would be zero.  The force of
buoyancy (sp?) would then still remain as it would if there was nothing more
than the force from the weight of the mercury within.  It would still remain
at the top of the outer sphere.  Now if the inventor has demonstrated that
this is not so - well now that would excite me just as much as if the whole
thing lost weight, (which I gather is what he is saying.)

   The spherical geometry does intrigue me.  It occured to me that when I
charge up a spherical or hemispherical capacitor, I am applying a high
amount of force / pressure to the dielectric media in between the plates!
hmmm.

NR
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Quinney <crquin home.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)


> Hi Peter,
>
> I believe that heat and gravity are related (somewhat), but that's all. I
> have only a few ideas on how they are related but insufficient information
> to model, or to speak on.
>
> I had a look at RAO K. NAGARJUNA's patent.  The idea expressed here,
> http://www.dalli.com/india/ref1059.html
> may or may not be antigravity. It may be anomalous force development due
to
> heat flow. Has it advanced beyond the drawing stage? Antigravity patents
> generally mean more to me when the inventor has a reputation as a
successful
> experimenter, yet even then I still prefer to see experimental results-
> hopefully something that can be replicated.
>
> The success of our ideas tends to spring from our models-  The closer our
> models are to how nature works, the more successful generally is the
> experiment. I once personally became so wedded to a particular model to
the
> point where I couldn't see the artefacts. I think my EGO got somehow
> involved. So now- I merely gather facts and do the odd experiment. I see
an
> inventor or successful experimenter such as yourself but I only note
> anomalous force developing with how heat was applied to various forms or
> shapes. I'm naturally suspicious about buoyancy artefacts but it is very
> interesting nevertheless. I file this as possibly important information-
> that geometry may play a part, and the next time I saw geometry/curved
> surfaces, I noted a certain resemblance and so brought it to the attention
> of Vo.
>
> Ross Tessien's model seems to include temperature as a cause of gravity.
> Aether streams carrying momentum. (Mechanique Celeste) I don't know what
to
> make of all that. It makes me think of Phlogiston. His "models" are
> completely different from other successful experimenters.
>
> The good experiments- and similarities, are what I look for. They tend to
> reveal a piece of nature.
>
> Best Regards,
> Colin Quinney



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 17:41:42 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:40:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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In a message dated 8/24/2001 6:30:47 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jedrothwell infinite-energy.com writes:

< Right! The elementary test comes first. In fact, I'll see Mallove and raise 
 him: I want to see a mercury thermometer. Why trust a thermocouple? >

HaHahaaa. Jed, that's the best laugh I have had all day - thanks. 

<Yo, Hypercom: repeat after me. Low tech GOOOOD. Hi tech BAAAD. (Model this 
on the original Frankenstein movie, where he says: "Fire gooood . . .)>

I think the real problem is the high end equipment is just beyond the 
understanding of the average individual. I will stay with better equipment 
and hope a qualified tech will know what the data stands for. Replication in 
front of qualified experts is required anyway, but I don't think I will ask 
the tech if he will loan me "his" thermometer for insertion in the plasma, or 
anywhere else.

<And the patent serves what purpose?>

Many fold, the device is now published for all to see, quasi protection from 
infringement and best of all - I did it pro se and I did the best I possibly 
could.

I really don't think infringement is going to be a problem, until how it 
works is better understood - looks like that's going be a while.

Regards,
Chris



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 19:08:16 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:06:57 +1000
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In reply to  Colin Quinney's message of Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:33:56 -0400:

[snip]
>I had a look at RAO K. NAGARJUNA's patent.  The idea expressed here,
>http://www.dalli.com/india/ref1059.html
>may or may not be antigravity. It may be anomalous force development due to
[snip]
This comes at just the right time. :) Suppose that all atoms and
particles that make up a body like the Earth get slightly more squashed
on the side where the pressure is highest, deforming them slightly into
a wedge shape so that they fir better into a sphere. I think the net
result for an atom would be the formation of a vertical electrical
dipole, with the electrons of the atom slightly displaced relative to
the nucleus (due to the deformity, one part of the path if longer than
the other part, and the electrons (charge?) spends longer there).

The resultant electrical dipoles attract one another, and this
attractive force is called "gravity". 
If a way is found to counteract the dipole formation locally in a piece
of matter, then it becomes weightless.
(T.T. Brown's strong electrical fields?)
Note that the net dipole field generated by the Earth also tends to
generate dipoles in neighbouring atoms.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 20:11:36 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: Free advice for Mr. Hypercom59
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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> I will only allow major companies, complete review and device testing
> for the purposes of licensing. That way everyone is safe from deception. 


So why exactly are you on vortex-L?   To help others duplicate some
interesting new science you've discovered?


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 21:52:07 2001
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Matt,
	I am not about to unplug my computer for the likes of
you or anyone else who would like to practice deflection, 
intellectual dishonesty, and a whole range of tricks of debate
including name calling, profanity, straw men, canards, and the
like.  The fact remains that the site in question demanded that
a person download, install, and run a program from a site 
controlled by part of a vicious monopoly, legally convicted so 
in a federal court of law after a very expensive trial,  that 
has spent
billions of dollars on 'public relations'....propaganda to lie to
the public.  Millions have fallen for these schemes to destroy
the rights of citizens to privacy.  These privacy rights include 
the right not to be bothered by telemarketers and profilers and
data miners.  See yourself in one of the above?  Only you
who have to ultimately live with yourself would know.   Many 
of the people who take a simplistic view of the internet paint
a patronizing, 'Mickey Mouse' view of it just like you in your
letter to the group.  I have been involved in computers for 
over 20 years and am reasonably competent in what I do.
I saw through your pathetic explanation in less than 10
seconds.  Only a liar or a fool would even attempt to sell
a story like that to someone they did not know.  Which are you?
	Most of the poor folks out their in internetland are 
stuck with using 'windows' for a system and a browser.  That
system should be duck soup for a fella that can sneak a 
trojan horse in through one of the many unprotected ports
that windows leaves open whilst the poor deluded and
distracted sucker watches a 'streaming data'  picture and 
and sound show unaware that his system is being invaded
and downloaded and data mined through one of those
ports.  Every time the system bogs down the victim sees
a notice......'buffering'  ___  'data'.  The victim is led to
believe that his system is waiting for more 'pictures
and sound', while what is really happening is his data
is stacking up in an output buffer waiting to be uploaded.
Sad bad fact of life for scumbags is that uploads are limited
by law to 33 Kbytes/sec, so data theft takes time.  They
try it with my machine and they will leave a trail.  LIke Harry
Kim on Star Trek Voyager chasing down 'ion trails', these
trails too can be followed.  Beautiful thing for streaming
media 'entrepeneurs' is that the streams fly off windows
hard drives almost as fast as them arrive, leaving little
visible trace of their having been there.  Once was a
Sheriff's Deputy back in Tulsa, Oklahoma.  Detectives
there told us trainees in the academy about a cat
burglar that could steal stuff that was under a pillow
or mattress while the people were sleeping on them
without stirring them awake.  Guy did get caught and
may be serving time in MacAlester State Prison in
Oklahoma yet..
	
To all,
This will hopefully be as far as this distastful
thread goes.  That above referenced site might have
been a good one if it did not require 'Fulllashhh'
I am very curious about physics and new
thoughts and discoveries and check this list every day
for new ideas with scientific merit..  A letter here a few
months ago was about a fella that may have tested
a superluminal radio by now.  I am not so sure that
it will work.  Would like someone to come out with
how his experiment turned out.  Surely would like
to see it work.  THAT would open up the universe
for us............or maybe wake others up to our presence
..........as if a hundred years of radio broadcasts have
not told everybody that wants to know anyway in our
local group area, Sol, Sirius,Vega sector.....

Standing Bear



On Monday 20 August 2001 09:54, Mattthew Rogers wrote:
> Standing Bear,
> 	In some ways your full of wisdom, but in this case IMHO you 
are full of (
> pick a word )
> 
> Your Technological fear is completely unfounded and not even 
close to the
> truth.
> 
> Let me describe in full the way anything you download works, 
even FLASH.
> 
> 1. You see a hyperlink that you want to click on.
> 2. You click on it.
> 3. The hyper link contains the text
> www.thatserver.com/ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
> 4. If Your computer doesn't know where thatserver.com is and 
needs to look
> it up, it looks up the address for you.
> 5. Your first outbound information asks your local ISP' DNS 
server to..
> "Please tell me what the IP address of thatserver.com is, and 
send it to me,
> by the way my her is my IP address so you know where to send 
it to."
> 6. Now your computer sends a request --> TO: "ip address" port 
80 ; please
> send to me ( here is my IP address ); the file name
> ;ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
> 7. Your Software reads ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html line by line 
and displays
> the information.
> 8. If there is a picture or a sound or any other file that is 
not included
> in the ThisIsWhatYouWanted, YOUR SOFTWARE ASSUMES YOU WANT IT, 
and Starts
> steps 3-7 All Over again.
> 
> Now on to stuff your computer cannot read.
> 1. If your browser cannot display the file, it looks for a 
hint in the HTML
> to find out what it needs to display it.
> 2. It then will automatically either download it, or ask you 
for permission
> to download it.
> 
> Now on to the truth about your web experience.
> 
> Spyware: is a term used by people that makes them think that 
there is
> something on their computer reporting to someone else your 
activity on the
> web.
> 
> 	Now Carefully read the above again, and tell me, Didn't you 
voluntary send
> out information about your activity when you clicked on the 
HTML ?
> 
> I am so Pissed Off at STUPID people it makes my blood boil!
> 
> Holy flying  #$(*&%. You DON'T KNOW HOW THE #$%)&*^ing 
INTERNET WORKS !
> Go read the Internet for Dummies or something.
> 
> 1. When you click on a Hyperlink, to download a file , You 
have SENT your
> request, containing your home IP address assigned to you by 
your ISP, to
> EVERY Router ( could be dozens of them ) between you and the 
Thatserver.com.
> Which can Cache them in a file for a Record of your Visit !
> 2. Every request you send is in CLEAR TEXT, Anyone can read 
it, UNLESS you
> are on a Secure Web Server !!
> 3. This Email was send the same way, in Clear text, from this 
desktop, to a
> server, which cached it, spooled it, backed it up and sent it 
off, to the
> next server which did the same thing.
> 4. There are probably at leat 3-5 copy's of this email on 
servers somewhere
> in the world till it got to you, and if it passed through a 
large
> organization's email servers, it could have a backup hardcopy 
permanently
> recorded on backups.
> 
> So in case you didn't know.
> 
> 1. The Internet is a collection of privately owned companies 
talking a
> universal language.
> 2. The information that they transfer across their network is 
Theirs, not
> Yours.
> 3. It was Started by the Government
> 
> So, In other words Standing Bear,
> 	If you are so concerned about your Security and Privacy from 
one little
> program call Flash, which is the DEFACTO standard for 
displaying quality
> Animations on the Web,
> 
> UNPLUG YOUR FREAKING COMPUTER
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew Rogers
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Standing Bear [mailto:rockcast net-link.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:15 AM
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com; Terry Blanton
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
> 
> Hello all,
>         The following letter purports to be on a 'fast track' 
to
> bringing prosperity, sweetness and light to all of us.  In
> reallity their aims are a bit more immediate and decidedly down
> to earth.  The page that they refer to loads as a black 
'nothing'
> in the Konqueror browser.  That is because it is all direct X
> controls and probably web bugs as well.  I detected no obvious
> spyware like cookies;  they are probably too subtle for that.  
I
> did find, however, that one goes nowhere on their site without
> first downloading, and installing, a spyware product called
> 'Flash 5' !  So the whole thing is a come-on to sucker us
> into installing this browser plug-in called 'Flash 5' !!
> This used to be, in its earlier incarnations, a useful if
> frivolous grafiks player back in the days when all
> grafiks were cached first and then played.  Now the graphics
> are 'streamed', meaning the program takes control of YOUR
> computer that YOU paid for and runs whatever IT likes on
> YOUR equipment and YOUR electricity.
>         It even installs itself withour your choice or 
knowledge
> of just what files it puts where.  It will not let you download
> an executable or a zip file so that you can install it later,
> or again if you do an upgrade or component change.  Oh
> no!  It arrogantly and rudely does it right away without your
> permission or input or ability to intervene save your use of
> the power switch.....you DID put an external power strip
> on your computer line did you not??!   ...after the digital
> monopoly sought to keep you from turning it off when they
> initiated the PC-97 ATX standard.....did'nt you?..........and
> you DO use an external modem with a hardwired absolute power
> switch did'nt you?  Even in the computer age, crooks are
> much alike.  Honest folks would provide you with a way to
> do these things rather than patronize you and then steal
> from you.  Your data, parts of it anyway, are worth money
> to every suede shoe boy that ever drew a breath.  Where
> do you think all your junk mail comes from, or how certain
> government agencies find out that you like sushi.
>         Streaming media plug-ins  leave no trace
> in your cache, probably covering its tracks while it shows you
> 'interesting pictures' .  The 'pictures' are probably a
> distraction while it is looting your machine of all the data 
that
> it can find like a shoplifter operating in a team....one
> distracts whilst the other steals.  Think of it!  If it can
> create and destroy files in your machine in one place, which
> it HAS to do if it is going to do this 'streaming', it can do
> the same in another.  Communication being two way in the
> process and instructions to your machine coming from a
> foreign 'agent' that has taken it over for the duration of the
> 'streaming'.........and perhaps MUCH longer....who is to say
> that data cannot also be sucked out of your machine as
> part of the same process.  NO DOUBT the creaters of this
> nonsense will deny the above with a 'smiling face'.
> I can hear them now: "Oh !!  I just can't IMAGINE where you got
> the idea that we do this.  Do you have PROOF.?
> Court proof!!".  Neither did the Laotians that escaped
> the killing fields of Angkha Loew (They were going
> to go BACK and their bring their smiling torturers to
> 'willingly' testify! ........no one would ever belief that!)
> Those Laotians were just as dead and to this day
> the US government has stonewalled on the
> real fate of Saloth Sar (Pol Pot)   The
> Jews were given similar assurances by the nazis when
> they were about to be 'deloused'.
>         Thank God I use Linux for browsing.  Linux stops
> these schmucks cold.  They can peddle their putz elseware.
> ..........AND I WILL NEVER DOWNLOAD ANY FLASH 'PLAYER'!
> WE KNOW WHO IS BEING PLAYED!!!
> 
> Standing Bear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday 16 August 2001 13:50, Terry Blanton wrote:
> > Joe Firmage is now investing in new energy.
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Engaging the Future
> > Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:39:24 -0700
> > From: Joe Firmage <joefirmage firmage.org>
> > To: firmage_bulletin firmage.org
> >
> > Hello friend,
> >
> > You subscribed to my e-mail list at some point in the past
> three
> > years, and I've rarely taken the liberty of sending you a
> > message. But this week marks a special time. It is my 
pleasure
> > today to formally introduce Motion Sciences, a not-for-profit
> > advanced physics research and development organization
> dedicated
> > to pioneering breakthrough technologies for 21st century 
life.
> > After decades of theoretical and experimental physics 
research,
> > parts of which I've had the honor to help sponsor over the 
past
> > three years, scientists around the country are converging to
> help
> > catalyze a brighter future for all life on Earth. And today, 
I
> am
> > asking for your help in this mission. Learn more about Motion
> > Sciences at http://MotionSciences.org, and how you can help
> > advance our work at http://MotionSciences.org/joinnow.html.
> >
> > Ad astra,
> > Joe Firmage
> >
> >
> > ABOUT MOTION SCIENCES
> >
> > After several years and millions of dollars invested in
> > preparatory work, scientists in several research institutions
> > across the United States have come together. The people and
> > partners forming Motion Sciences believe that significant
> > discoveries in physics may be made within 10 years, 
discoveries
> > of great significance to the future of life on Earth. Explore
> > with me a hypothetical future.
> >
> > Imagine that we discover by 2005 a breakthrough in energy
> > generation -- a device that can produce electricity with 
almost
> > no fuel, cost, or waste. Imagine limitless conversion of
> seawater
> > to fresh water by 2015. Imagine that by 2025 we no longer 
need
> an
> > electricity grid. Imagine a pollution-free atmosphere by 
2030.
> > Imagine a permanent end to the growing snarls of freeway
> traffic
> > by 2040. Imagine a society which recognizes a human right to
> move
> > about as freely as the goods of its economy -- across any
> border,
> > any time; or a reusable transportation vehicle that can take
> you
> > into Space, driven by a field of force rather than ejection 
of
> > propellant. Finally imagine a green Africa with a vibrant
> society
> > of human and natural life in 2051.
> >
> > Sounds like science fiction, doesn't it? In fact, the vision
> > described above portrays precisely the kind of future 
emerging
> > from the implications of some of the best physics research
> > underway in the world today. A group of talented scientists 
and
> > engineers began quiet collaboration a few years ago, and have
> now
> > publicly joined forces in and with Motion Sciences, bringing
> > essential collaboration to a very challenging set of research
> and
> > development projects, a collaboration that we hope can soon
> > extend to engage complementary teams around the world.
> >
> > In the process of forming this particular organization, we
> > considered for many months what kind of structure it should
> have.
> > Should Motion Sciences be a commercial, venture-capital 
backed
> > company? We tested this idea briefly, but more important in 
our
> > considerations, however, is the principle of what this 
mission
> is
> > all about, and it isn't about an IPO. Our mission is about 
the
> > possibility of sharing with the world one day tools that 
could
> > reverse environmental decline, end starvation and poverty, 
and
> > make wars a horror of the past.
> >
> > Our mission is about helping to enable a renewal of human
> > civilization, and Nature as a whole.
> >
> > Our mission is about the possibility that we will someday be
> able
> > to explore the Milky Way Galaxy in an interstellar 
spacecraft.
> >
> > Our mission is about scientific knowledge that shouldn't be
> owned
> > by a commercial corporation.
> >
> > Motion Sciences Organization is therefore truly a public
> > enterprise -- and if we're successful, the proceeds yielded
> from
> > technologies sponsored by Motion Sciences will be given back 
to
> > humanity through select philanthropies. As a not-for-profit
> > 501(c)3, our success in these missions will be dependent upon
> the
> > support of visionary institutional sponsors and citizens of
> > Earth. People like you. We have a goal for the 2001 calendar
> > year: engaging the support of 100,000 citizens of Earth,
> becoming
> > members of the Motion Sciences Community.
> >
> > On behalf of a rare and talented network of highly 
credentialed
> > and rigorous scientists, engineers, and the teams assisting
> them,
> > I invite you to join with the people and institutional 
partners
> > of Motion Sciences in an historic attempt at a vital 
mission. I
> > cannot imagine a better way for the physics of the 21st 
century
> > to be pioneered, than for citizens from all nations to come
> > together and make it so.  Let's join hands around the planet!
> >
> > Joseph P. Firmage
> > Chairman
> > Motion Sciences Organization
> > http://MotionSciences.org
> >
> >
> >
> > *****
> >
> > You have received this email because you are subscribed to 
Joe
> > Firmage's mailing list.  If you wish to be removed from the
> list,
> > please send an empty email to
> > firmage_bulletin-unsubscribe firmage.org.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > *****
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 24 22:03:47 2001
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From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
Reply-To: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010824102817.00a9c6b8 pop.mindspring.com>
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On Fri, 24 Aug 2001, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> I sympathize with this point of view, but it has grave drawbacks. When you 
> take information for such sources, you are paying wealthy people for their 
> opinions.
>  Magazines & conferences cannot be run without money. Those which 
> are not self-supporting must have "angels" and other backers, often 
> anonymous.


Are you going to talk me out of subscribing to IE?      Has Inf. Energy
always been self-supporting, or is it just a collection of opinions from
wealthy people? 

:)


> Most of these people are philanthropists. The ones I personally 
> know are generous, wonderful people, but you don't know that, do you? They 
> could be weirdos with an agenda, like the folks who run "21st Century" 
> magazine.

I've been reading 21st Century since the mid 1990s.  The only weird agenda
I've noticed is their blatant pro-nuclear, pro-space-exploration stance. 
If I hadn't already been told that it was a LaRouch rag, I never would
have guessed.  It's more like European/Russian alt-science, or like
Borderlands journal.  But then I habitually detect and skip over any
politics, so there might be more than just the pro-nuke stuff in the mag
and I don't see it.  Also, wasn't LaRouch in prison until recently? I
don't think he's had much of a hand in. 

Scientific American to me looks *far* more biased and "weird" than 21st
Century, and Sciam is dependant on sales and subs to survive. 


> In some countries, in some eras, legislatures and government offices 
> paid  little money. The idea was to avoid attracting people who wanted to 
> hold office strictly to earn money.

Good point.  It's not just China where the roots lie though, I think it's
religion in general, and its bias against ego and greed.  Modern academia
springs out of earlier religious academics.  And so today we think that
science should be run as a nonprofit organization, so as *not* to be
biased by the demands of investors or the goal of getting rich.  Investors
apply lots more pressure than donors, and donors rarely insist that
research be done behind closed doors to keep it out of the hands of the
competition. 

So, should science research (including frontier science) be run as a
nonprofit org. funded by donors, or run like an inventors' company funded
by investors?  Both have problems, but I think the nonprofit org has far
fewer.  If it's run as an inventors' company, then the lack of wide open
communication converts the whole affair into Invention, not Science.

Where FE is involved, I think an appropriate analogy is cancer drug
research. Private cancer research cannot be published far and wide because
that just helps competitors.  But hiding research which could end vast
human suffering is shameful.  And if a private company finds a very cheap
cure for a widespread form of cancer, they are stuck, since they can't get
back their investment.  They either let it remain secret while trying to
solve the problem, or they have to artificially inflate the price to where
many could not afford it.  Both actions are repulsive since the need for a
cure is so great.

If the same cancer research has public funding, then very soon after a
discovery is made, it can start helping people, and there is no question
about keeping it secret to satisfy the investors or prevent others from
making money off it.

If I were to come up with a genuine OU device, and if anything kept me
from fully disclosing all details of research and all the keys to
successful replication, then I'd say something was very seriously wrong.

The third option is to be a dilletant:  keep your day job, and fund your
own work.  In that case, many of the usual conflicts of interest
evaporate.  Obviously you can only attack the fairly simple projects,
unless you can afford to fund a few continues years of amateur alt
science.  This 3rd option clearly doesn't work well for normal science or
normal business.  But for fringe science, the other two methods have
repeatedly failed.


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 01:20:21 2001
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: harvey norris <harvich yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vast Impedance Differences for 60 Henry coils   481 hz
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Here is a letter sent to tesla list explaining the
former paradox I had noted, where equal induction
coils placed on 3 phase delta to wye secondary
transformer outputs from alternator 3 phase stator
voltages   481 hz.

Fri, 17 Aug 2001  
From: harvey norris <harvich yahoo.com>  
Subject: Alternator Research/Impedance Variances Noted
on transformer application. 
To: tesla pupman.com 
         
 

I have placed a jpeg of the 15.7 KVA 3 phase
transformer attached in reverse application as a step
up transformer to alternator inputs at my message
board indexed below. This was obtained for only 25
dollars at Electronic Surplus in Cleveland Ohio. I
also obtained a smaller and bigger one for less of a
deal. But the deal here now appears to be a rewriting
of hypotheses.

At first I thought that high induction coils
themselves hooked to the outputs were exhibiting wide
variances of impedances. I had assumed that a single
phase output voltage reading of 600 volts to be a high
figure, but neglected to measure the voltages on all
three phases. In reality the adjacent phases read only
200 and 400 volts. This explains why the amperage
consumptions were misinterpreted as widely varying
impedances, when this should not be the case.

The problematic issue becomes the stator outputs, in
the form of WYE, being sent to a DELTA primary, and
then outputed again in WYE secondaries. This is
described as a little used application in the 3 phase
reference sent by  marc metlica to tesla list;
http://www.elec-toolbox.com/usefulinfo/xfmr-3ph.htm

"There are only 4 possible transformer combinations:

Delta to Delta - use: industrial applications 
Delta to Wye - use : most common; commercial and
industrial 
Wye to Delta - use : high voltage transmissions 
Wye to Wye - use : rare, don't use causes harmonics
and balancing problems. 
Three-phase transformers are connected in delta or wye
configurations. A wye-delta transformer has its
primary winding connected in a wye and its secondary
winding connected in a delta. A delta-wye transformer
has its primary winding connected in delta and its
secondary winding connected in a wye."

So there you have it, the(emf sourced) input being
wye, the output being wye, with intervening Delta, and
lack of a 4th return wire sure does complicate things.
It says right there that it causes balancing problems,
and this appears very exagerated with the different
voltages appearing on each phase, where the small
inbalances of the inductive loads appear to create a
much greater voltage inbalance at the outputs. Or
perhaps other problems are the culprit.

Amperage consumptions of the three phases when the
supply lines are rotated are noted at message board.
The most paradoxical situation is the arrangement of
supply lines where introduction of a Strontium ferrite
core increases the conduction on only a single phase,
as shown by the noted amperage consumptions.

I cant quite fathom how that can be possible, even
with the given voltage inbalances. Tremendous mental
puzzle that must have a simple apparent answer, yet it
seems so puzzling to be initially considered
impossible. The backwards acting phase appears to act
as a capacitive reactance, when it is obviously the
most inductive of all.

Sincerely Wondering: HDN

Postnote/ I have temporarily ceased work with this
transformer, and have instead began experiments with
routing only a single stator output to a 62.5
ferromagnetic voltage rise obtained by a pole pig.
Results are encouraging where values of conduction are
following basically what theory predicts. It is
reasonably safe to put a 1.8 nf plexiglass capacity as
a current limiting factor in series with a 20 inch
neon disharge, and be able to simultaneously measure
both the alternator stator voltage and amperage
conductions into primary and also the secondary
amperages and voltages across the bulb itself. Since
the bulb is current limited by the capacity, it stands
to reason that the voltage from the pole pig secondary
might be different than the actual voltage across the
bulb. It was noted that by turning down the input
voltage from the variac field regulated alternator
that at just under 9 volts stator output, the disharge
could still be maintained. It takes a higher voltage
than that to initially ionize the bulb, and here we
are merely turning the voltage down below that level,
close to its lowest possible plasma discharge
maintenance voltage. Then the voltage at the bulb
shows 530 volts, while the secondary pig voltage also
falls close to that at 540 volts. It was wondered what
the voltage across the cap itself was in these
conditions, so a 6th meter was added to show this at
630 volts! That voltage meter will easily ping its 750
volt limit if it is left in the circuit during plasma
ignition from zero level, while the voltage across the
actual bulb meter will fall within safe ranges before
that ignition developes. Turning the voltage up to 16
volts stator voltage makes about 2.8 ma  conduction
across bulb and a reduction of bulb voltage to about
480 volts or less. The amperage demand from alternator
becomes increased to about .44 amps for this better
neon lighting. A variac regulated 15,000 volt NST,
(having twice the voltage rise of the pole pig)will
deliver similar amperage and reactive wattage
consumptions at 60 hz,where a conduction of .4 amps is
obtained at a 16 volt input. But given equal voltage
inputs, the 481 alternator appears to do slightly
better in performance of neon discharge.

Sincerely HDN



=====
Binary Resonant System  http://members3.boardhost.com/teslafy/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 11:06:03 2001
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From: "Mattthew Rogers" <matt accelnet.net>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:04:51 -0700
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Bear, See responses below individually,
Matt,
        I am not about to unplug my computer for the likes of
you or anyone else who would like to practice deflection,
intellectual dishonesty, and a whole range of tricks of debate
including name calling, profanity, straw men, canards, and the
like.  The fact remains that the site in question demanded that
a person download, install, and run a program from a site
controlled by part of a vicious monopoly, legally convicted so
in a federal court of law after a very expensive trial,  that
has spent
billions of dollars on 'public relations'....propaganda to lie to
the public.
Again you show your ignorance. This is not debate. This is waking you up to
showing you the truth. I do not debate the truth. I show it for what it is.
That you cannot recognize the truth shows your ignorance.
Shockwave and Flash Are Plugins to Any Browser, and are NOT streaming media.
Whether you use www.microsoft.com www.netscape.com www.opera.com or other
browsers. If your browser doesn't support the file format of the author of
the website, you may download it for free.
So in your reply, again you put out Fear, to the people of this list, and a
bald faced lie that Microsoft controls the program called Flash. Macromedia,
( stock ticker MACR ) is not the same as Microsoft ( stock ticker MSFT ) .
You are the Lie. Take your FUD elsewhere.

 Millions have fallen for these schemes to destroy
the rights of citizens to privacy.
Unfortunately we live in a free society. Idiots like you are free to believe
and choose what they want. I am not stopping you or any one else. I only
say, before you believe or espouse a dogma that has little basis in truth,
that you carefully look at the facts. You have no facts to support what you
believe in this case of downloading software.
 These privacy rights include
the right not to be bothered by telemarketers and profilers and
data miners.
So, Ban telemarketers, Internet Search engines, and lists like this.
 See yourself in one of the above?
Yes, I have marketed services to people with the telephone. It is one way of
many to find customers. This is another case of a technology invented by an
inventor being put to use. Whether it is put to use for a good purpose, or a
purpose that annoys you is irrelevant. It exists. If you find telemarketers
annoying, either don't answer your phone or if it is a telemarketer, hang up
on them, make their life hard, so they will quit that job.
Profilers, what kind, what do you mean, The kind the cops use ? the kind the
insurance companies use ? If you don't want to be profiled, don't give out
your information !
Data Miners ? Everything and anything does data mining. What is data ?
Reading this list is looking at data. I mine the parts I want and throw away
the dirt. I am responding to this second rant of yours because I feel that
people that promote ignorance, fear, and doubt should be stood up to and
held accountable for their ignorance. Stupidity is a learned behavior. That
means it can be taught to others.
 Only you
who have to ultimately live with yourself would know.
Cheap shot eh ? I live with myself just fine !
   Many
of the people who take a simplistic view of the internet paint
a patronizing, 'Mickey Mouse' view of it just like you in your
letter to the group.
The Internet is simple, My description of how you get a file is how it
works. If you tell me how you think it works, I will SHOW you not only how
it works, but the RFC on how everybody else agrees that is how it should
work !
 The Phone is simple. Slapping 2 hemispheres of sub critical fissionable
materials together to make a big explosion is simple.
The internet consists of a Simple protocol. TCP/IP. It consists of lots of
private companies connecting only 2 devices together, Switches and Routers
together to talk to another company. There is nothing patronizing about it.
That's why the book "internet for dummies" exists. Here you can order one by
clicking on this Hyperlink to Amazon.com .
The term Mickey Mouse also describes the internet. It is mostly an ad-hoc
collection, and is inherently unstable. Yet because of its redundancy it
works.
 I have been involved in computers for
over 20 years and am reasonably competent in what I do.
Ok, So have I been involved in computers for a long time. I used to build
them from scratch. ( not kits ), and I know how the x86 infrastructure works
down to the chipset level. So there ....

I saw through your pathetic explanation in less than 10
seconds.  Only a liar or a fool would even attempt to sell
a story like that to someone they did not know.  Which are you?
That implies the answer to the question you pose holds only 2 answers. Might
be good in a debate, but here it only shows your furthering of your belief,
that your belief about Flash is true, it comes from Microsoft and it is an
evil data sucking off your hard drive program. I just disproved that belief,
and so this question is irrelevant.
Explain to me that if I put a firewall that records all incoming and
outgoing packets ( read DATA for the uneducated ) that when I run any
streaming program, and Flash is not a Streaming program, all that goes out
is a code to the originating server " yup I am still here, send me more " ?

        Most of the poor folks out their in internetland are
stuck with using 'windows' for a system and a browser.
Where have you been ? Haven't you heard the news about Linus Torvaldis ? His
Drive to produce Linux ? that it is Free ?
In case you haven't, here are some links to some alternatives .
www.redhat.com www.freebsd.org www.openbsd.org www.netbsd.org
Or go to a data mining website called www.google.com and put in "free
operating system" or "Linux"

That
system should be duck soup for a fella that can sneak a
trojan horse in through one of the many unprotected ports
that windows leaves open whilst the poor deluded and
distracted sucker watches a 'streaming data'  picture and
and sound show unaware that his system is being invaded
and downloaded and data mined through one of those
ports.
That is the responsibility of the user to know how his system works not the
software manufacturer. Its your responsibility to protect yourself from
criminals and other peoples stupidity. Not mine or the governments.
Every time the system bogs down the victim sees
a notice......'buffering'  ___  'data'.
If your connection to the internet was as fast as your CPU processes, you
wouldn't have to buffer data, to play it on your screen.
 The victim is led to
believe that his system is waiting for more 'pictures
and sound', while what is really happening is his data
is stacking up in an output buffer waiting to be uploaded.
Now which program is this ? Be specific, again you want to prove to me that
this exists, I would be on the next news show showing the world this
problem. In fact the only company that Uploads information about your
computer to their servers is Real Audio, and its many different programs,
UNLESS you DESELECT the uploading, you are giving them permission to view
what you do on the net. Remember, You downloaded Their program. That's
theirs, not yours. You agree to their terms and conditions.

Sad bad fact of life for scumbags is that uploads are limited
by law to 33 Kbytes/sec, so data theft takes time.  They
try it with my machine and they will leave a trail.  LIke Harry
Kim on Star Trek Voyager chasing down 'ion trails', these
trails too can be followed.  Beautiful thing for streaming
media 'entrepeneurs' is that the streams fly off windows
hard drives almost as fast as them arrive, leaving little
visible trace of their having been there.
First off please post what law are you talking about. If you have a modem
the information will leave your computer at its maximum upload speed, not by
a limit. My upload to the internet is with a wireless connect at about 3
Megabits per second.
 Once was a
Sheriff's Deputy back in Tulsa, Oklahoma.  Detectives
there told us trainees in the academy about a cat
burglar that could steal stuff that was under a pillow
or mattress while the people were sleeping on them
without stirring them awake.  Guy did get caught and
may be serving time in MacAlester State Prison in
Oklahoma yet..
What does this have to do with what we are talking about ? The cat burglar
must of woke somebody up to get caught.  By the way, your data cat burglar
if good, will never be traced.


To all,
This will hopefully be as far as this distastful
thread goes.  That above referenced site might have
been a good one if it did not require 'Fulllashhh'
I am very curious about physics and new
thoughts and discoveries and check this list every day
for new ideas with scientific merit..
Ok, It is only distasteful to you, not to the others that have viewed it or
left me private messages off list supporting my response to your RANT.
It must be distasteful to you, because it was the truth. And because the
truth is a double edged sword, you feel hurt because it destroyed one
beliefs that you had, that you have a miserable view on good things, like
software, and I told this truth for all to see. You tell me some Truth I
don't know or prove me wrong.
That is the same reason I view this list, looking for new unconventional
ideas. However You were the one who posted the rant, not me. If you post
something, be prepared to handle it. If you don't want to be shown the truth
about your beliefs, then don't post them.
My Idea for you protecting yourself from the internet is quite valid.
Physically removing the connection is the only 100% sure way to protect
yourself from it.
Then all you have to worry about is Cat burglars.
By the way, If I was a burglar, and had access to your house, I could
install a hard drive, copy yours to mine, leave without a trace, then, take
your hard drive home, and read it at my leisure.
Unless you actually encrypted the files on your hard drive , I would be able
to ready everything you did.
I could also loot your garbage can, follow you around to learn your habits.
Once I found your address, I could Use a Transamerica Title search to find
out how many rooms you had in your house, estimate your income, among other
things. You don't live in a complete privacy world. Either take  Real steps
to protect yourself, or stop whining.
A letter here a few
months ago was about a fella that may have tested
a superluminal radio by now.  I am not so sure that
it will work.
Actually it does work. Go read the experiments of electron pair
instantaneous destruction, and you will find that you could also vibrate one
electron and the other would respond.
They want to use this technology to record secure transactions across the
planet. The Swiss banks are funding this research.
 Would like someone to come out with
how his experiment turned out.  Surely would like
to see it work.  THAT would open up the universe
for us............or maybe wake others up to our presence
..........as if a hundred years of radio broadcasts have
not told everybody that wants to know anyway in our
local group area, Sol, Sirius,Vega sector.....

Only problem is, once you initiate an electron pair, you would have to send
that electron somewhere else for someone to listen to.
Interesting question is, is it the same electron ? or two electrons with the
same properties ?
As you can see Bear, We can have similar interests, but , don't tread on the
facts. They are not my facts or my truth.

Sincerely,
	Matthew Rogers
Standing Bear



On Monday 20 August 2001 09:54, Mattthew Rogers wrote:
> Standing Bear,
>       In some ways your full of wisdom, but in this case IMHO you
are full of (
> pick a word )
>
> Your Technological fear is completely unfounded and not even
close to the
> truth.
>
> Let me describe in full the way anything you download works,
even FLASH.
>
> 1. You see a hyperlink that you want to click on.
> 2. You click on it.
> 3. The hyper link contains the text
> www.thatserver.com/ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
> 4. If Your computer doesn't know where thatserver.com is and
needs to look
> it up, it looks up the address for you.
> 5. Your first outbound information asks your local ISP' DNS
server to..
> "Please tell me what the IP address of thatserver.com is, and
send it to me,
> by the way my her is my IP address so you know where to send
it to."
> 6. Now your computer sends a request --> TO: "ip address" port
80 ; please
> send to me ( here is my IP address ); the file name
> ;ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html
> 7. Your Software reads ThisIsWhatYouWanted.html line by line
and displays
> the information.
> 8. If there is a picture or a sound or any other file that is
not included
> in the ThisIsWhatYouWanted, YOUR SOFTWARE ASSUMES YOU WANT IT,
and Starts
> steps 3-7 All Over again.
>
> Now on to stuff your computer cannot read.
> 1. If your browser cannot display the file, it looks for a
hint in the HTML
> to find out what it needs to display it.
> 2. It then will automatically either download it, or ask you
for permission
> to download it.
>
> Now on to the truth about your web experience.
>
> Spyware: is a term used by people that makes them think that
there is
> something on their computer reporting to someone else your
activity on the
> web.
>
>       Now Carefully read the above again, and tell me, Didn't you
voluntary send
> out information about your activity when you clicked on the
HTML ?
>
> I am so Pissed Off at STUPID people it makes my blood boil!
>
> Holy flying  #$(*&%. You DON'T KNOW HOW THE #$%)&*^ing
INTERNET WORKS !
> Go read the Internet for Dummies or something.
>
> 1. When you click on a Hyperlink, to download a file , You
have SENT your
> request, containing your home IP address assigned to you by
your ISP, to
> EVERY Router ( could be dozens of them ) between you and the
Thatserver.com.
> Which can Cache them in a file for a Record of your Visit !
> 2. Every request you send is in CLEAR TEXT, Anyone can read
it, UNLESS you
> are on a Secure Web Server !!
> 3. This Email was send the same way, in Clear text, from this
desktop, to a
> server, which cached it, spooled it, backed it up and sent it
off, to the
> next server which did the same thing.
> 4. There are probably at leat 3-5 copy's of this email on
servers somewhere
> in the world till it got to you, and if it passed through a
large
> organization's email servers, it could have a backup hardcopy
permanently
> recorded on backups.
>
> So in case you didn't know.
>
> 1. The Internet is a collection of privately owned companies
talking a
> universal language.
> 2. The information that they transfer across their network is
Theirs, not
> Yours.
> 3. It was Started by the Government
>
> So, In other words Standing Bear,
>       If you are so concerned about your Security and Privacy from
one little
> program call Flash, which is the DEFACTO standard for
displaying quality
> Animations on the Web,
>
> UNPLUG YOUR FREAKING COMPUTER
>
>
>
> Matthew Rogers
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Standing Bear [mailto:rockcast net-link.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:15 AM
> To: vortex-l eskimo.com; Terry Blanton
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
>
> Hello all,
>         The following letter purports to be on a 'fast track'
to
> bringing prosperity, sweetness and light to all of us.  In
> reallity their aims are a bit more immediate and decidedly down
> to earth.  The page that they refer to loads as a black
'nothing'
> in the Konqueror browser.  That is because it is all direct X
> controls and probably web bugs as well.  I detected no obvious
> spyware like cookies;  they are probably too subtle for that.
I
> did find, however, that one goes nowhere on their site without
> first downloading, and installing, a spyware product called
> 'Flash 5' !  So the whole thing is a come-on to sucker us
> into installing this browser plug-in called 'Flash 5' !!
> This used to be, in its earlier incarnations, a useful if
> frivolous grafiks player back in the days when all
> grafiks were cached first and then played.  Now the graphics
> are 'streamed', meaning the program takes control of YOUR
> computer that YOU paid for and runs whatever IT likes on
> YOUR equipment and YOUR electricity.
>         It even installs itself withour your choice or
knowledge
> of just what files it puts where.  It will not let you download
> an executable or a zip file so that you can install it later,
> or again if you do an upgrade or component change.  Oh
> no!  It arrogantly and rudely does it right away without your
> permission or input or ability to intervene save your use of
> the power switch.....you DID put an external power strip
> on your computer line did you not??!   ...after the digital
> monopoly sought to keep you from turning it off when they
> initiated the PC-97 ATX standard.....did'nt you?..........and
> you DO use an external modem with a hardwired absolute power
> switch did'nt you?  Even in the computer age, crooks are
> much alike.  Honest folks would provide you with a way to
> do these things rather than patronize you and then steal
> from you.  Your data, parts of it anyway, are worth money
> to every suede shoe boy that ever drew a breath.  Where
> do you think all your junk mail comes from, or how certain
> government agencies find out that you like sushi.
>         Streaming media plug-ins  leave no trace
> in your cache, probably covering its tracks while it shows you
> 'interesting pictures' .  The 'pictures' are probably a
> distraction while it is looting your machine of all the data
that
> it can find like a shoplifter operating in a team....one
> distracts whilst the other steals.  Think of it!  If it can
> create and destroy files in your machine in one place, which
> it HAS to do if it is going to do this 'streaming', it can do
> the same in another.  Communication being two way in the
> process and instructions to your machine coming from a
> foreign 'agent' that has taken it over for the duration of the
> 'streaming'.........and perhaps MUCH longer....who is to say
> that data cannot also be sucked out of your machine as
> part of the same process.  NO DOUBT the creaters of this
> nonsense will deny the above with a 'smiling face'.
> I can hear them now: "Oh !!  I just can't IMAGINE where you got
> the idea that we do this.  Do you have PROOF.?
> Court proof!!".  Neither did the Laotians that escaped
> the killing fields of Angkha Loew (They were going
> to go BACK and their bring their smiling torturers to
> 'willingly' testify! ........no one would ever belief that!)
> Those Laotians were just as dead and to this day
> the US government has stonewalled on the
> real fate of Saloth Sar (Pol Pot)   The
> Jews were given similar assurances by the nazis when
> they were about to be 'deloused'.
>         Thank God I use Linux for browsing.  Linux stops
> these schmucks cold.  They can peddle their putz elseware.
> ..........AND I WILL NEVER DOWNLOAD ANY FLASH 'PLAYER'!
> WE KNOW WHO IS BEING PLAYED!!!
>
> Standing Bear
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday 16 August 2001 13:50, Terry Blanton wrote:
> > Joe Firmage is now investing in new energy.
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Engaging the Future
> > Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:39:24 -0700
> > From: Joe Firmage <joefirmage firmage.org>
> > To: firmage_bulletin firmage.org
> >
> > Hello friend,
> >
> > You subscribed to my e-mail list at some point in the past
> three
> > years, and I've rarely taken the liberty of sending you a
> > message. But this week marks a special time. It is my
pleasure
> > today to formally introduce Motion Sciences, a not-for-profit
> > advanced physics research and development organization
> dedicated
> > to pioneering breakthrough technologies for 21st century
life.
> > After decades of theoretical and experimental physics
research,
> > parts of which I've had the honor to help sponsor over the
past
> > three years, scientists around the country are converging to
> help
> > catalyze a brighter future for all life on Earth. And today,
I
> am
> > asking for your help in this mission. Learn more about Motion
> > Sciences at http://MotionSciences.org, and how you can help
> > advance our work at http://MotionSciences.org/joinnow.html.
> >
> > Ad astra,
> > Joe Firmage
> >
> >
> > ABOUT MOTION SCIENCES
> >
> > After several years and millions of dollars invested in
> > preparatory work, scientists in several research institutions
> > across the United States have come together. The people and
> > partners forming Motion Sciences believe that significant
> > discoveries in physics may be made within 10 years,
discoveries
> > of great significance to the future of life on Earth. Explore
> > with me a hypothetical future.
> >
> > Imagine that we discover by 2005 a breakthrough in energy
> > generation -- a device that can produce electricity with
almost
> > no fuel, cost, or waste. Imagine limitless conversion of
> seawater
> > to fresh water by 2015. Imagine that by 2025 we no longer
need
> an
> > electricity grid. Imagine a pollution-free atmosphere by
2030.
> > Imagine a permanent end to the growing snarls of freeway
> traffic
> > by 2040. Imagine a society which recognizes a human right to
> move
> > about as freely as the goods of its economy -- across any
> border,
> > any time; or a reusable transportation vehicle that can take
> you
> > into Space, driven by a field of force rather than ejection
of
> > propellant. Finally imagine a green Africa with a vibrant
> society
> > of human and natural life in 2051.
> >
> > Sounds like science fiction, doesn't it? In fact, the vision
> > described above portrays precisely the kind of future
emerging
> > from the implications of some of the best physics research
> > underway in the world today. A group of talented scientists
and
> > engineers began quiet collaboration a few years ago, and have
> now
> > publicly joined forces in and with Motion Sciences, bringing
> > essential collaboration to a very challenging set of research
> and
> > development projects, a collaboration that we hope can soon
> > extend to engage complementary teams around the world.
> >
> > In the process of forming this particular organization, we
> > considered for many months what kind of structure it should
> have.
> > Should Motion Sciences be a commercial, venture-capital
backed
> > company? We tested this idea briefly, but more important in
our
> > considerations, however, is the principle of what this
mission
> is
> > all about, and it isn't about an IPO. Our mission is about
the
> > possibility of sharing with the world one day tools that
could
> > reverse environmental decline, end starvation and poverty,
and
> > make wars a horror of the past.
> >
> > Our mission is about helping to enable a renewal of human
> > civilization, and Nature as a whole.
> >
> > Our mission is about the possibility that we will someday be
> able
> > to explore the Milky Way Galaxy in an interstellar
spacecraft.
> >
> > Our mission is about scientific knowledge that shouldn't be
> owned
> > by a commercial corporation.
> >
> > Motion Sciences Organization is therefore truly a public
> > enterprise -- and if we're successful, the proceeds yielded
> from
> > technologies sponsored by Motion Sciences will be given back
to
> > humanity through select philanthropies. As a not-for-profit
> > 501(c)3, our success in these missions will be dependent upon
> the
> > support of visionary institutional sponsors and citizens of
> > Earth. People like you. We have a goal for the 2001 calendar
> > year: engaging the support of 100,000 citizens of Earth,
> becoming
> > members of the Motion Sciences Community.
> >
> > On behalf of a rare and talented network of highly
credentialed
> > and rigorous scientists, engineers, and the teams assisting
> them,
> > I invite you to join with the people and institutional
partners
> > of Motion Sciences in an historic attempt at a vital
mission. I
> > cannot imagine a better way for the physics of the 21st
century
> > to be pioneered, than for citizens from all nations to come
> > together and make it so.  Let's join hands around the planet!
> >
> > Joseph P. Firmage
> > Chairman
> > Motion Sciences Organization
> > http://MotionSciences.org
> >
> >
> >
> > *****
> >
> > You have received this email because you are subscribed to
Joe
> > Firmage's mailing list.  If you wish to be removed from the
> list,
> > please send an empty email to
> > firmage_bulletin-unsubscribe firmage.org.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > *****
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 13:34:40 2001
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:41:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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	Dear Hyper,

	I ran up a Van de Graff generator and several configurations, a
blumlein pulse former, a marx pulse former, coax pulse formers and several
configurations of spark, soft and hard plasma, shielded and non shielded,
air and gas plasma and mixed systems.

	I live to do the experiments!

	I am not sure what you mean when you say the truth is not so funny
anymore.... sometimes the truth is sad... even grim.... sometimes it is
hilarious!

	See notes....


On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/23/2001 11:32:47 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> 
> > Shall we take your warning about silly E groups as humor? 
> 
> There is nothing funny about any group of people claiming to be of scientific 
> mind, debating over conjecture and theory - while smugly ignoring solid facts 
> just because it seems impossible.
> 
> Who - other than Bill even bothered to fire up a VDG and do a series of tests 
> before they began flapping their yap, spitting out conjecture or worse - 
> questioning the sanity of the experiment in the first place? 
> 
> The truth isn't so funny anymore - is it John?
> 

> No wonder Morton wont talk to anyone -  
> it's just not worth the effort.

	I took the time to find Morton, had to talk to about 8 different
Morton relatives .... and I talked to him.... and did the work... and
some.

	I have been doing the work for some time.  Ask Bill Beatty.


					J


> 
> Chris
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 17:53:45 2001
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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 20:45:36 -0400
From: David Rosignoli <drdaveor enter.net>
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John Schnurer wrote:
> 
>         Dear Hyper,
> 
>         I ran up a Van de Graff generator and several configurations, a
> blumlein pulse former, a marx pulse former, coax pulse formers and several
> configurations of spark, soft and hard plasma, shielded and non shielded,
> air and gas plasma and mixed systems.
> 
>         I live to do the experiments!

>         I have been doing the work for some time.  Ask Bill Beatty.

John,

So, can you say what kind of results you've been getting?

-Dave

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 18:04:41 2001
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From: "Colin Quinney" <crquin home.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
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Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:03:44 -0400
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Gravity. Hmm . I'm still trying to understand inertia :-)

About 5 or 6 months ago on Vo I said that I thought that a breakthrough
would be found in gravity control within months. Frederick said I was an
optimist, but I believe that Podkletnov's recent gravity beam paper may have
confirmed that intuition.

Deformation of a charge's orbit while in an acceleration field is IMHO the
cause of induced motion I agree, but what causes the actual deformation. . .
I suspect it's basically electrodynamics- (probably a longitudinal force of
some kind) however, our understanding of the nature of space may require
some revision.

Robin, you have an interesting paper on your web site
http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
and so also does Petkov
http://ttt.lanl.gov/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0012/0012025.pdf

This I believe- once we find the answer, it will probably turn out to be
rather simple in the end, and not really so complex after all.


As for inertia-
I'm pretty sure it's easier to understand than gravity and I don't think we
have to introduce quantum fields, ZPF, or even Mach's principle.
Bergman:
http://www.commonsensescience.org/



Like most of us here, I'm looking for the answer. The only two rules that I
give myself during my search for those answers is that the dog must wag the
tail-  experiment must precede theory, and-  it will have simplicity, and
beauty.(something some monk from the middle ages mentioned :-). Those sites
listed adhere to my rules.

Best Regards,
Colin Quinney


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:06 PM

>Suppose that all atoms and
> particles that make up a body like the Earth get slightly more squashed
> on the side where the pressure is highest, deforming them slightly into
> a wedge shape so that they fit better into a sphere. I think the net
> result for an atom would be the formation of a vertical electrical
> dipole, with the electrons of the atom slightly displaced relative to
> the nucleus (due to the deformity, one part of the path if longer than
> the other part, and the electrons (charge?) spends longer there).
>
> The resultant electrical dipoles attract one another, and this
> attractive force is called "gravity".
> If a way is found to counteract the dipole formation locally in a piece
> of matter, then it becomes weightless.
> (T.T. Brown's strong electrical fields?)
> Note that the net dipole field generated by the Earth also tends to
> generate dipoles in neighbouring atoms.

> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm
>


---
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 21:10:08 2001
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From: Standing Bear <rockcast net-link.net>
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:17:43 -0700
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Dear All,
	What a party for Mr Anton Chekhov.  Lets hold it in a
Cherry Orchard and break out the Stolichnaya.  Lets maybe hold
a collection for Mr Sklyarov so he can see through to challenge
the unfair 'Digital Millemium Act' and its present spokesman, 
Adobe, who are busy creating an international incident in a quest
for an example to cow those who would dare to stand in their way
whilst they gouge money from an apathetic public.  Mr Sklyarov
is Edwin Markham's 'Man With the Hoe'.  The dumb terror that
may some day wake up.
	Come to think of it, Benito Mussolini, who still has statues
to him in the south of Italy, was a journalist at heart 
originally, and started his movement with a newspaper, "Avanti".
That means:  "Wake Up!", in Italain.  The old fascist believed 
that his paisanos were asleep.  He never did succeed in waking
them up as witness the dismal performance of his armies.
	Lets all pray that Dmitri fights this law like the Russian
62nd Army in Stalingrad, for his fight is for our rights.  The 
light of unrestricted intellectualism must not be limned by 
tawdry sleazebags and exploiters of the working class who
present a 'debate' worthy of the old nazi Joseph Goebells
who was hangeed at Nuremburg.  
	By the way, I built every computer I have from
scratch.  Once had to convert SIMMs to SIPPs with a
soldering iron.  Have every LInux distro easily obtainable
within reason but prefer S.u.S.E. as more value for the money.
Being German will mean less restrictions on its software's
abilities to reverse engineer files.  LInux is a stone cold
annihilator of files windows refuses to delete, and SuSE has
its own shredder.  Thirty Five passes over every byte
in a file with random characters.  Red Hat has a nice
distro too if you don't need so many applications and
want some of the e-books that come with it.  They have
some really nice screen savers.  Caldera has a nice 
fdisk.exe that can set up windows partitions so that
Linux can stand completely on its own and not rely
on windows for anything at all.  Mandrake has a neat
installation program with a grafik interface.  
	And most Linux's can be hardened for 
security, not to mention immune to most
virii.  We are a minority yet, so not so much viewed as
worthwhile targets.  Targets we may become someday,
but that day is not here..............yet.  As for telemarketers,
there is a website called Junkbusters.com.  Often it
is not advisable to click on links that tell you how
to 'unsubscribe' to something you never solicited in
the first place...........you just get put on another list
to receive still more junk.  The best course to deal with
commercial teleputzes is to ignore them.  When after
a while they make no money from you, they will
stop bothering you.  The routines for aging ads
and responsed is built into most of the software
and is quite automatic.  Above all do not argue with
them, for that is unproductive.  No one has ever
persuaded a heroin junkie to stop selling his AIDs
tainted blood to blood banks just so he can have
his next bottle of panther juice.

Standing Bear

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 21:16:46 2001
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Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:24:28 -0700
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On Saturday 25 August 2001 18:03, Colin Quinney wrote:
> Gravity. Hmm . I'm still trying to understand inertia :-)
> 
> About 5 or 6 months ago on Vo I said that I thought that a 
breakthrough
> would be found in gravity control within months. Frederick 
said I was an
> optimist, but I believe that Podkletnov's recent gravity beam 
paper may have
> confirmed that intuition.
> 
> Deformation of a charge's orbit while in an acceleration field 
is IMHO the
> cause of induced motion I agree, but what causes the actual 
deformation. . .
> I suspect it's basically electrodynamics- (probably a 
longitudinal force of
> some kind) however, our understanding of the nature of space 
may require
> some revision.
> 
> Robin, you have an interesting paper on your web site
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> and so also does Petkov
> http://ttt.lanl.gov/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0012/0012025.pdf
> 
> This I believe- once we find the answer, it will probably turn 
out to be
> rather simple in the end, and not really so complex after all.
> 
> 
> As for inertia-
> I'm pretty sure it's easier to understand than gravity and I 
don't think we
> have to introduce quantum fields, ZPF, or even Mach's 
principle.
> Bergman:
> http://www.commonsensescience.org/
> 
> 
> 
> Like most of us here, I'm looking for the answer. The only two 
rules that I
> give myself during my search for those answers is that the dog 
must wag the
> tail-  experiment must precede theory, and-  it will have 
simplicity, and
> beauty.(something some monk from the middle ages mentioned 
:-). Those sites
> listed adhere to my rules.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Colin Quinney
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin van Spaandonk" <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
> To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 10:06 PM
> 
> >Suppose that all atoms and
> > particles that make up a body like the Earth get slightly 
more squashed
> > on the side where the pressure is highest, deforming them 
slightly into
> > a wedge shape so that they fit better into a sphere. I think 
the net
> > result for an atom would be the formation of a vertical 
electrical
> > dipole, with the electrons of the atom slightly displaced 
relative to
> > the nucleus (due to the deformity, one part of the path if 
longer than
> > the other part, and the electrons (charge?) spends longer 
there).
> >
> > The resultant electrical dipoles attract one another, and 
this
> > attractive force is called "gravity".
> > If a way is found to counteract the dipole formation locally 
in a piece
> > of matter, then it becomes weightless.
> > (T.T. Brown's strong electrical fields?)
> > Note that the net dipole field generated by the Earth also 
tends to
> > generate dipoles in neighbouring atoms.
> 
> > Robin van Spaandonk
> >
> > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> > A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
> > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm
> >
> 
> 
> ---
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> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.273 / Virus Database: 143 - Release Date: 
8/19/2001
> 
> 
> 
Maybe one way would be a reverse Higgs field if we knew how
to generate it.  There are some old documents circulating
on the web that are being looked at again, from a University
in Coblenz.  A researcher from CERN is reporting strange
matter made in the LER.  Another is saying quantum interactions
among W and Z particles basically leave Mach's Principle
'in the dust, where it has lain for some time'..........direct 
quote from one researcher.  Look in the BBC's science news
and follow the links.  You will find it.

Standing Bear

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 22:44:39 2001
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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:46:17 +1000
From: Dennis Curnow <kurnow picknowl.com.au>
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Can anyone tell me if  Viktor Schauberger's "Repulsine" is a operational
machine?

There is photographic evidence that it did exist and a patent for it,
but did it actually work as claimed?

Cheers

Dennis


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sat Aug 25 22:54:38 2001
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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:01:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: David Rosignoli <drdaveor enter.net>
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	Dear Folks,


	In general if you launch an arc pulse though a tube....

	a la Morton ... you will often get the following effects:

	If the sphere is negative ... so a gang of electrons come zooming
out toward the end of the tube and then end on the washer or ring then you
get a little push .....

	If the polarity is opposite this then it seems very little
happens... unless everything is VERY light weight ... then there is a
little 'pull' .... sort of.  

	The arc usually will give you a 'pop' sound and the push is
simultaneous with the 'pop' sound.

	A fine capillary tube... with a needle inside the bore a fine
sewing needle, 3/4 way ....and a collar of conductive carbon, such as
stiff carbon foam seems to work well for its scale.
	An array of these....if EACH were fed as a floating and isolated
source, needle negative, may do well in thin air.... as 500 feet above sea
level in the humid dense summer air of Ohio there are a lot of leaks from
pointy to pointy place..... have to wait for dry winter .... 

	Or maybe one of you folks that lives at 8,000 feet can run it up.

	When I can get my tank of He re filled more news....

 

					J



On Sat, 25 Aug 2001, David Rosignoli wrote:

> John Schnurer wrote:
> > 
> >         Dear Hyper,
> > 
> >         I ran up a Van de Graff generator and several configurations, a
> > blumlein pulse former, a marx pulse former, coax pulse formers and several
> > configurations of spark, soft and hard plasma, shielded and non shielded,
> > air and gas plasma and mixed systems.
> > 
> >         I live to do the experiments!
> 
> >         I have been doing the work for some time.  Ask Bill Beatty.
> 
> John,
> 
> So, can you say what kind of results you've been getting?
> 
> -Dave
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Sun Aug 26 18:56:24 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:42:49 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Standing Bear's message of Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:24:28 -0700:
[snip]
>Maybe one way would be a reverse Higgs field if we knew how
>to generate it.  There are some old documents circulating
>on the web that are being looked at again, from a University
>in Coblenz.  A researcher from CERN is reporting strange
>matter made in the LER.  Another is saying quantum interactions
>among W and Z particles basically leave Mach's Principle
>'in the dust, where it has lain for some time'..........direct 
>quote from one researcher.  Look in the BBC's science news
>and follow the links.  You will find it.
[snip]
It's a bit hard, when you have no idea what you are looking for. Could
you perhaps provide the precise URL?


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 08:26:31 2001
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William Beaty wrote:

>Are you going to talk me out of subscribing to IE?      Has Inf. Energy
>always been self-supporting, or is it just a collection of opinions from
>wealthy people?

It is not self-sustaining, but the influence of the "angels" is minimal, 
and their opinions are very close to those of the editors.


>I've been reading 21st Century since the mid 1990s.  The only weird agenda 
>I've noticed is their blatant pro-nuclear, pro-space-exploration stance. 
>If I hadn't already been told that it was a LaRouch rag, I never would 
>have guessed.

Is that good or bad? Perhaps it would be better if they would make their 
world-view clearer. If the KKK published a scientific journal without 
making their sponsorship clear, I would be wary of it. Bias can be dressed 
up to look like objective science.


>But then I habitually detect and skip over any
>politics, so there might be more than just the pro-nuke stuff in the mag
>and I don't see it.

If you saw it, you would take it into account and it would not fool you. 
Everyone who reads my articles, for example, knows that I am biased in 
favor of CF, and anyone who reads Taubes will see he is against it. Hoffman 
and Bauer, on the other hand, makes a show of being even handed, objective, 
and above the fray. They sound like calm, nonpartisan scientists. But if 
you look closely at their books, I think you will see they are 
strongly  biased against cold fusion.


>Scientific American to me looks *far* more biased and "weird" than 21st 
>Century, and Sciam is dependant on sales and subs to survive.

It is healthier for a journals or magazines to depend on sales and 
subscriptions. The readers would force changes, and keep the editors 
honest. The influence of advertisers can be beneficial too, but in trade 
magazines it sometimes weakens independence.


>And so today we think that science should be run as a nonprofit 
>organization, so as *not* to be biased by the demands of investors or the 
>goal of getting rich.

It is a complicated issue, and you can make a case for both approaches. 
Sometimes science works well because it is focused on profit.


>Investors apply lots more pressure than donors, and donors rarely insist 
>that research be done behind closed doors to keep it out of the hands of 
>the competition.

In a healthy business environment with reasonably short development cycles 
this is not a problem. Products are developed and marketed as quickly as 
possible. As soon as they are sold -- literally within weeks -- they are 
reverse engineered, and the competition begins to learn all there is to 
know, and to catch up. That's bad for companies but good for the society.


>So, should science research (including frontier science) be run as a
>nonprofit org. funded by donors, or run like an inventors' company funded 
>by investors?  Both have problems, but I think the nonprofit org has far fewer.

I think we need both kinds of organization.


>But hiding research which could end vast human suffering is shameful.  And 
>if a private company finds a very cheap cure for a widespread form of 
>cancer, they are stuck, since they can't get back their investment.

Actually, cancer is so widespread this cannot happen. As long as the drug 
can be patented, the company would make huge profits. Suppose the drug cost 
a few dollars to make and it sold for a few hundred dollars per patient. 
The company would make a fortune, and people would not object, because they 
would know that the investment dollars must be recovered during the life of 
the patent. A widely used drug like Viagra is sold at a high profit, but no 
one objects. This *is* a problem with obscure diseases, or so-called 
"orphaned diseases," which only a few thousand patients suffer from. The 
Internet can help overcome this problem. Groups of these patients and their 
relatives are connecting up via Internet and forming organizations. This 
makes it easier and cheaper for a drug company to attract volunteers for 
drug testing, and to market a cure to the entire group of patients.


>If I were to come up with a genuine OU device, and if anything kept me
>from fully disclosing all details of research and all the keys to
>successful replication, then I'd say something was very seriously wrong.

Amen.


>The third option is to be a dilletant:  keep your day job, and fund your
>own work.  In that case, many of the usual conflicts of interest
>evaporate.  Obviously you can only attack the fairly simple projects,
>unless you can afford to fund a few continues years of amateur alt
>science. . . .

I do not think that serious cold fusion research can be done part time. 
Also, it takes $100,000 to $1 million in instruments. No one wants to buy 
that much stuff for part-time, amateur research. The people who 
buy  expensive instruments for researchers (including me) expect the 
researcher will make full use of the instrument.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 08:26:31 2001
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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:53:04 -0400
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

>< Right! The elementary test comes first. In fact, I'll see Mallove and raise
> > him: I want to see a mercury thermometer. Why trust a thermocouple?
>
>HaHahaaa. Jed, that's the best laugh I have had all day - thanks.

It was a joke, but with a serious purpose. Don't laugh so hard you miss the 
point, which is that simple, first-principle instruments and techniques are 
inherently better than complex ones.


>I think the real problem is the high end equipment is just beyond the
>understanding of the average individual.

Yes, and that is a real problem. Don't dismiss it, or forget it. Who do you 
think will be investing in this? Who do you hope to attract? Average 
individuals, I assume. If you are setting up a situation in which you can 
only appeal to extraordinary people, you are eliminating most potential 
investors. What is the point of doing that?


><And the patent serves what purpose?>
>
>Many fold, the device is now published for all to see . . .

Since it published for all to see, why do you make any effort to hide it? 
Why do you set any restrictions over who sees it, or what instruments they 
use to confirm the results? Your actions make no sense.


>I really don't think infringement is going to be a problem, until how it
>works is better understood - looks like that's going be a while.

You are saying that infringement will not be a problem because people will 
not understand how the thing works. In other words, people skilled in the 
art cannot reproduce the machine from the patent. And that means the patent 
is null and void. You better hope you are wrong, and thousands of experts 
could reproduce the thing. You should encourage as many of them to do that 
as you can, to prove your patent is valid.

So far you have fit the profile of a crackpot inventor. Crackpots say they 
have a patent yet people skilled in the art cannot reproduce it. They do 
not realize this invalidates the patent. They say they will sell the 
product but somehow prevent people from opening it up or reverse 
engineering it. They do not know that in the U.S., Europe and Japan all 
products must be fully open, and every component tested and verified for 
safety, by the government and the insurance company Underwriter's 
Laboratory. They say they will attract investors and then they do 
everything humanly possible to alienate, confuse or repulse sane investors.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 11:42:49 2001
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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:35:11 -0500
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From: thomas malloy <temalloy metro.lakes.com>
Subject: Re: Repulsine
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>Can anyone tell me if  Viktor Schauberger's "Repulsine" is a operational
>machine?
>
>There is photographic evidence that it did exist and a patent for it,
>but did it actually work as claimed?
>
>Cheers
>
>Dennis

I have written several letters to people who have published the 
pretty pictures seen on the sample newletter of Vortex Science 
website. I ask them do you have any hardware, or are you just selling 
newsletters? I have yet to get a response. If you do find any 
hardware, please let me know. As I recall, there is a site in one of 
the Scandenavian countrys with this sort of information on it. I will 
post what I find under Schauenberger Vortexes.

Have you read any Water Russell? http://www.philosophy.org There was 
a site with some of his vortex drewings on it, I'll post the URL.

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 15:21:28 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:06:33 +1000
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In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:53:04 -0400:
[snip]
>>I really don't think infringement is going to be a problem, until how it
>>works is better understood - looks like that's going be a while.
>
>You are saying that infringement will not be a problem because people will 
>not understand how the thing works. In other words, people skilled in the 
>art cannot reproduce the machine from the patent. And that means the patent 
>is null and void. 
[snip]
A good technician can probably reproduce the device from a set of plans
(i.e. the patent). That doesn't necessarily mean that he understands the
physical principles involved in its operation.


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 16:03:53 2001
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Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
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Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

> >not understand how the thing works. In other words, people skilled in the
> >art cannot reproduce the machine from the patent. And that means the patent
> >is null and void.
>[snip]
>A good technician can probably reproduce the device from a set of plans
>(i.e. the patent). That doesn't necessarily mean that he understands the
>physical principles involved in its operation.

If a good technician cannot do this, the patent will be ruled invalid.

Once the technician has done the job, there are thousands of other 
scientists standing by, who will soon understand the physical principles. 
No principle can remain hidden for long. This device, if real, would soon 
attract the attention of many talented people.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 16:43:28 2001
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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:35:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Beaty <billb eskimo.com>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Benveniste's white noise H2O experiment
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J. Benveniste was looking for a simple schematic which had been on a
defunct website.  It's this one below, and it looks a bit intriguing.  If
white noise is sent through a test sample using a pair of coils, and if we
null out the original signal and look for differences, will the difference
signal vary with different materials? 

  An implementation of a system to produce audio frequency "Bio-Holograms"
  http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/bioholo.htm

It might be better to build TWO coil pairs, one with an air core and one
with the test sample, then compare the difference between the outputs
(rather than comparing the test sample with the original noise generator
signal as this circuit does.) 

This was in reference to my brief article about Dr. Benveniste's talk at
SSE 18: 

  http://amasci.com/freenrg/digibio.html

His claim is that an EM noise signal which has been passed through a
biologically active substance can be recorded, then played back into a
biologically sensitive system, and the system reacts as if the original
substance had been applied directly.  Interesting... yet the extreme
sensitivity of the systems he uses might mean that "N-rays" problems would
arise, and so blind testing might be needed.  On the other hand, if a
couple of coils could, say, "broadcast" the smell of powerful perfume into
distilled water, your nose (the sensitive sytem) might clearly sense which
of several water samples had been so "treated."  Or dispense with the
water, and see if the coil itself produces a smell in your nasal membranes
when the "perfume" signal is sent through it...

  :) 


((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 18:38:45 2001
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Subject: Re: Benveniste's white noise H2O experiment
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:46:21 -0400
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It's appears to be a type of spectroscopy, where you measure the absorpsion
of various frequencies by a sample. In analytical chemistry one normally
uses Infrared, Ultraviolet, Atomic Absorbsion and visible light (via
lasers).

I've always wondered how Benveniste had recorded the samples. This makes
sense. Thanks Bill.

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Beaty" <billb eskimo.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 7:35 PM
Subject: Benveniste's white noise H2O experiment


>
> J. Benveniste was looking for a simple schematic which had been on a
> defunct website.  It's this one below, and it looks a bit intriguing.  If
> white noise is sent through a test sample using a pair of coils, and if we
> null out the original signal and look for differences, will the difference
> signal vary with different materials?
>
>   An implementation of a system to produce audio frequency "Bio-Holograms"
>   http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/bioholo.htm
>
> It might be better to build TWO coil pairs, one with an air core and one
> with the test sample, then compare the difference between the outputs
> (rather than comparing the test sample with the original noise generator
> signal as this circuit does.)
>
> This was in reference to my brief article about Dr. Benveniste's talk at
> SSE 18:
>
>   http://amasci.com/freenrg/digibio.html
>
> His claim is that an EM noise signal which has been passed through a
> biologically active substance can be recorded, then played back into a
> biologically sensitive system, and the system reacts as if the original
> substance had been applied directly.  Interesting... yet the extreme
> sensitivity of the systems he uses might mean that "N-rays" problems would
> arise, and so blind testing might be needed.  On the other hand, if a
> couple of coils could, say, "broadcast" the smell of powerful perfume into
> distilled water, your nose (the sensitive sytem) might clearly sense which
> of several water samples had been so "treated."  Or dispense with the
> water, and see if the coil itself produces a smell in your nasal membranes
> when the "perfume" signal is sent through it...
>
>   :)
>
>
>
((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Mon Aug 27 23:55:13 2001
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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:05:21 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
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At 12:06 PM 8/25/1, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:

[snip]
>...Suppose that all atoms and
>particles that make up a body like the Earth get slightly more squashed
>on the side where the pressure is highest, deforming them slightly into
>a wedge shape so that they fir better into a sphere. I think the net
>result for an atom would be the formation of a vertical electrical
>dipole, with the electrons of the atom slightly displaced relative to
>the nucleus (due to the deformity, one part of the path if longer than
>the other part, and the electrons (charge?) spends longer there).
>
>The resultant electrical dipoles attract one another, and this
>attractive force is called "gravity".
[snip]

Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with my reading, but noticed this post.

I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 02:40:58 2001
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From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:39:23 +1000
Organization: Improving
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In reply to  Horace Heffner's message of Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:05:21
-0900:
[snip]
>I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
>electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
>1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
>that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.
[snip]
Thanks Horace that's an important point. I agree that it is true of
individual dipoles, but I wonder if it is also true of an agglomeration.
IOW where individual dipoles fields add as though they were the elements
of a taylor series (or other series for that matter).


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

....Put the "bottom line" at the top!

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 03:24:30 2001
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:03:01 +0100
From: Robert Chambers <robert.chambers baesystems.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Engaging the Future]
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Message-id: 
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Interested parties might like to know that there now appears to a a no-flash option 
on the site http://www.motionsciences.org.

Rob



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 05:42:00 2001
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On Tuesday 28 August 2001 01:05, Horace Heffner wrote:
> At 12:06 PM 8/25/1, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> >...Suppose that all atoms and
> >particles that make up a body like the Earth get slightly 
more squashed
> >on the side where the pressure is highest, deforming them 
slightly into
> >a wedge shape so that they fir better into a sphere. I think 
the net
> >result for an atom would be the formation of a vertical 
electrical
> >dipole, with the electrons of the atom slightly displaced 
relative to
> >the nucleus (due to the deformity, one part of the path if 
longer than
> >the other part, and the electrons (charge?) spends longer 
there).
> >
> >The resultant electrical dipoles attract one another, and this
> >attractive force is called "gravity".
> [snip]
> 
> 
[snip]
Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with my reading, but 
noticed this post.
> 
> I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, 
be it from
> electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because 
gravity is a
> 1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields 
(superpositioned fields
> that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Horace Heffner          
[snip]

Could'nt help but remember that this is the way that 
gravitational fields were taught to me at university
when studying engineering 26 years ago.  The inverse
square of the radius rule was also called a 'democratic
field'.  
	However, rehashing old ideas is not what
this group and others are really about.  Rather that is
what Bibles and Qurans are for, the faithful.  If we are
to progress, we have to climb out of our comfortable
box once in a while.  My neighbor has raised a daughter
over the last fourteen years.  Once he bought a new
television.  Little 'Becca' kept the box.  Put it under his
stereo cabinet she did, and made it her fort.  For some
years it was her refuge from the world.  She no longer
uses the box, and neither should we.   This does not
mean we should abandon religions, as that would miss
the point.  
	Ideas are the currency of the new millenium
as well they should be.  I wish to point out, however,
that the deformed atoms idea is not new.  The late
cartoonist Al Capp referred to it once in his strip:
"L'il Abner" back in the late 1950's.
	"L'il Abner" was set in Dawgpatch, USA
out in 'them thar hills.  Along came a mad scientist
one day name of Adam Bender [alliteration] with his
atom bend'in machine.  It looked like a 'warshin masheeen'
and a pile driver mounted on the side.  A 'Rube Goldberg'
hammer provided the 'bendin force'.  His idea was that
bent atoms would react differently with their surroundings
and provide anti gravity propulsion much as the 'flubber'
in another medium.  It was all meant as a parody of atomic
power and was really funny.  UFO's were actually in the
news and 'Adam Bender' and his machine were taken in
stride.  
	Given the open endedness of our universe in
micro, it is a cheap shot to imply foolishness or naivete
to all new ideas.  We do not really know if quarks are even
the ultimate small.  We have intimations of micro dimensions.
Even the bible talks of worlds within worlds.  One would not
want to paint oneself into  a corner too quickly lest he
run afoul of the 'Yellow Kid', an American gambler who made
a fortune of 'taking to the cleaners' folks foolhardy enough
to call him a fool.

Standing Bear

micr 
> 
> 
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 08:09:49 2001
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:11:35 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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'It' Inventor Hires Lobbyist
To Work State Government Across US
By Gareth Cook

Boston Globe Staff  8-27-1  Dean Kamen, the New Hampshire
inventor whose mysterious ''Ginger'' project still draws
worldwide speculation, has hired a Massachusetts State House aide
to lobby state governments across the country. 

Since January, when word leaked that Kamen had secured a $250,000
book deal to tell the story of a secret, world-changing
invention, his every move has been scrutinized for some clues to
the project, which is also referred to as ''It.'' 

Kamen has been largely silent on his new invention, and much of
the same mystery surrounds the job of his new lobbyist. Matthew
Dailida, currently the chief of staff to House Minority Leader
Francis Marini (R-Hanson), said next week he would leave his job
to work for a Kamen company known as ACROS LLC. 

''I will be working with a host of new products they have coming
forward, and obviously Ginger is at the top of that list,'' said
Dailida, who did not offer further details about either the
project or what kind of lobbying he would be doing. 

As word of Dailida's new job filtered out to his State House
colleagues, it has added to speculation that Kamen is inching
closer to going public with Ginger. It has also brought a new
question: Why would this reclusive inventor want state lobbyists? 

Kamen has filed for patents on technology that would allow him to
build a motorized, self-balancing scooter as well as refinements
to an engine, known as a Stirling engine, that in theory could
produce power more efficiently. He has also reserved a number of
suggestively named Web site names, including
mystirlingscooter.com and, under the ACROS name, flywheels.com. 

If Ginger does turn out to be an improved scooter, it would place
Kamen in what is becoming fiercely fought legal territory. Just
last week, New Bedford voted to ban motorized scooters from its
streets, because, some say, they were becoming a nuisance. But
scooters are not governed by the same restrictions that cover
cars. 

''The magic words here are `motor vehicle,''' said Massachusetts
Secretary of State William F. Galvin. Every state, he explained,
is free to decide whether a vehicle is considered a motor
vehicle, and to impose the same kind of requirements - licenses,
insurance, registration, inspections - that apply to cars. 

Such regulations could severely limit the market for new
scooters. 

Since January, Kamen has divulged very little about his new
project. He has also said he couldn't reveal more details for
business reasons and that the media coverage of Ginger had blown
the project out of proportion. A spokesman for Kamen declined to
provide any more details about the hiring of Dailida, the extent
of Kamen's state lobbying effort, or Ginger. 

Specialists in state government said that new technologies could
invoke a wide range of state laws that could help, or hurt, a
company. States can impose special taxes, set some environmental
or safety standards, and even ban the use of certain products. 

Dailida, 31, is not registered as a lobbyist in Massachusetts, a
step he is legally obligated to take before lobbying here,
according to Galvin. Other states impose similar requirements. 

Dailida said he was called by a recruiter who had noticed his
resume on monster.com, the job-hunting Web site. He said that he
planned on doing a lot of traveling, and was excited to be a part
of the celebrated company. His new employer, he added, had
encouraged him to contain his enthusiasm. 

''I've been trying to keep it as low key as possible,'' said
Dailida. 

Copyright 2000 Globe Newspaper Company  

<end>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 12:14:34 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
To: <jonathan.dodge earthlink.net>
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Subject: Fw: Update of Dennis Lee From Jack Carey At C.T.
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:16:43 -0700
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Hi Jonathan; do you want to go with me to Portland Sat eve at he Double Tree
Motel and take some measurments. I have a wrap around amp meter and a volt
meter.  Bruce
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:35 AM
Subject: Update of Dennis Lee From Jack Carey At C.T.


>                  Mr. Ford it is not a matter of eating crow in regard to
> Dennis Lee. Dennis Lee up to now had an advanced Generator that needed
> Physically improvements that we at Confidential Technologies have made a
> portion of. WE are Described by an Article that is attached to this mail
and
> is in The current edition of Electrifying Times. Dennis is a promoter that
> appears to want make a positive difference in our society. He has
overstated
> situations in the past but not anymore. He now has real snake oil that
> actually works to put in his bottle.
>
> The generator because of our imput is being driven by a worthless new 20
Hp.
> Baldor Super E motor. That aspect will be changed. Instead of the
hummingbird
> motor that also needs improvements that will also be done by us.
> Worthless because of the high power draw it requires that presently runs a
> belt that drives the generator another one of our changes. The sundance
will
> require more changes that our CO. will complete soon.
>
>  Plus his generator was not feasible to any great extent because of the
power
> draw that it required from the grid to operate.  We solved that problem
also
> when we were there in NJ a few weeks ago before his tour started.  We
created
> a small demo unit after we returned that he pick up when he did a show
here
> in Flint Mi. that demonstrates the concept.  A larger driver unit 220 to 3
> phase will be completed by us that will mate up with a different far more
> efficient generator drive motor that is also one our creations.
>
>  Dennis will pick that up when he gets to Ill. Or Ind. on his southern
swing
> of his tour. At that point he will have a feasible system for introduction
as
> a marketable product. that everybody will probably want because of the
> drastic reductions they will realize in there power bills. If the unit is
> sold. If he can sell the excess power that the unit will create back to
the
> grid then the home owner will not have any electric bill at all.
>
> Under his current plan the home owner will be allotted a certain amount of
> power if he exceeds that allotment he will have to pay for the excess that
he
> uses over his allotment.  Also people will be able to change there gas or
oil
> furnace burners to electrical coils. Plus get rid of there gas or oil hot
> water heaters and replace them with electric ones with an extra heating
coil
> for fast recovery purposes. The same with stoves and clothes dryers. Then
> they do no need gas at all because they have very cheap electricity.
>
> Plus our technology will in a documentary that an Austrian film maker is
> doing that is backed by the Austrian Broadcasting Co... And the Austrian
> Govt. About zero point energy solutions. Plus we have far more advanced
> technology that is light years ahead in that and other areas that is not
> being released at this time.    I hope I have answered some of you
questions.
>  Jack Carey  Confidential Technologies.
>
> Subj:    Fw: Our approved verison Jack Carey In Flint
> Date:   8/13/01 12:26:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From:   etimes teleport.com (bruce meland)
> To: cogp empnet.com (Taffy Gleason)
> CC: JCarey9622 aol.com
>
> Hi Taffy this is the final version for the front page.
> >
> >
> > Fuel Cell story on the front page ( it is redundant anyway as it appears
> on page 7  We can
> > continue on to page 17 , cutting out GM cites power crisis story and
The
> > wisdom of Chairman Wow   The attached photo can go on page 17
> Confidential Technologies  Rotating Transformer Phase Inverter  by Bruce
> > Meland, editor
> > >
> >       Confidential Technologies(CT) of Flint, Michigan ,  has  developed
a
> > super efficient rotating  transformer phase inverter.  It can
dramatically
> > step up electricity from the wall when it  passes through a super
> efficient
> > rotating transformer, using a 110 V or 220 V  electric power supply. The
> 110v
> > to 3 phase units are more efficient than 220v  to 3 phase units. The
220v
> to
> > 3 phase unit power supply would be best suited  for heavy loads like
quick
> > electric vehicle battery charging.
> >
> > The unit is  basically a 3 Hp generator/inverter that can create 3 phase
> > industrial power.  12/2  common house wire can be used to supply
electric
> power to the
> > phase inverter using a 30 amp breaker, without the wires getting hot. CT
> > refers to the technology as cold electricity.  Also other industrial 3
> > phase motors, powering up their equipment, using this new type of
> electrical
> > power, use far less power to operate and never get hot!
> > >
> > > > Most three phase motors do get quite warm in conventional
operations.
> For
> >  example the CT 3 hp motor that runs their industrial air compressor
> > requires about 390 watts to operate to 160 psi.  In a conventual
situation
> > 2200 watts would be required to operate the 3 Hp. Motor. The air
> compressor
> > calls for a convential 5 hp motor which would require about 3650 watts
to
> > operate in a normal  situation. C.T. makes no over unity claims of any
> kind, and
> > it is up to the viewer of their operational system to make there own
> > determinations.
> >
> >  Confidential Technologies will make a larger 220v inverter version for
> > Better World Technologies' Sundance generator system. This  technology
may
> > relieve the heavy demands, presently being placed on the power  grids
> > nationwide, that are causing outages and rolling black outs. The
complete
> > system will be marketed by Better World Technologies in Butler, N. J.
> > >
> > > . The CT inverter can also be a separate product for people that need
> three
> > phase electrical power in many situations, where the power utilities do
> not provide it. CT has
> > also developed new advanced electrodynamic equations to better define
the
> > process. They are also developing more advanced electricity delivery
> system's.
> > > >
> > > > The present higher math, taught at most universities cannot explain
> the
> > new CT process. CT's breakthrough is also light years beyond textbook
> > electro-dynamics, presently taught to physicists and electrical
engineer's
> > world wide.
> > > Electricity from the grid has wasted kinetic energy contained in the
> > delivery process. According to Confidential Technologies this energy is
> not
> > presently being used. CT knows how to utilize the excess electrical
> magnetic
> > energy in the form of magnetic flux and plasma fields that are being
> created in the
> > process. Confidential Technologies also claim that free electrons are
also
> > being captured from the environment which also makes the process more
> > efficient.
> > >
> > > > .  The question to you the reader is: From where do the electrons
> come,
> > and do any researchers know about magnetic flux or plasma fields that
are
> > being created by the rotating inverter-transformer?  I have been to
Flint
> > > Mi. and saw the unit being demonstrated. They claim the unit has been
in
> > operation for several years. It appeared that it has had extensive use.
> Stay
> > tuned and watch for a live demonstration on Better World Technologies
> (BWT)
> > scheduled tour of the US.  www.ucsofa.com   BWT  will be demonstrating a
2
> Hp.
> > system using single phase power that is also operating a 5 Hp.3 phase
> motor.
> > .
> > > >
> > > > Nikola Tesla, the greatest inventor of all time, invented the
majority
> of
> > the  technology. Confidential Technologies, a company that could
possibly
> > become a major company in the energy conservation field was able to
figure
> > out  and  refine the process.  J. P. Morgan and George Westinghouse
> stopped Tesla
> >  from marketing the technology, by cutting off his financing. Standard
Oil
> knew he could also
> > create viable electric cars(see page 18), so they gave interest free
money
> to Henry Ford to
> > make internal combustion engine, the dominate auto propulsion system of
> today.
> > Confidential Technologies can be reached through
> > Direct Electronics 1815 Davison Rd. Flint Michigan 48506
> ,jcarey9622 aol.com Telephone No.
> > 810-341-1832 or Page No. 810-812-4033 Please enter No. or leave voice
> > message.   Taffy Put this photo either on front page or page 17
> >
> >
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 18:08:29 2001
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:18:57 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
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At 7:39 PM 8/28/1, Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>In reply to  Horace Heffner's message of Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:05:21
>-0900:
>[snip]
>>I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
>>electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
>>1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
>>that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.
>[snip]
>Thanks Horace that's an important point. I agree that it is true of
>individual dipoles, but I wonder if it is also true of an agglomeration.
>IOW where individual dipoles fields add as though they were the elements
>of a taylor series (or other series for that matter).


It is true even for individual dipoles that approximately 1/r^2 fields
exist in close proximity to the poles.  That is to say that if the poles
are separated by distance r and the field observed at distance R, then it
can only be said the (superpositioned) dipole field approaches a 1/R^3
field as r/R -> 0.  Similarly, planar segments or other geometric
structures can be built up of dipoles, but then the characteristic 1/R^3
dipole field is still found to exist at a greater distance, i.e. r must
then become a measure of largest dimension of an entire but finite
structure, not just the individual dipole size.  Utlimately then, when r/R
becomes small, the dipole field still declines to a 1/R^3 field, unlike
gravitational fields.  This limitation might be overcome using non-finite
objects - but that then excludes gravitation in finite objects as we know
them.  Considerably more innovation must then be used to build a sensible
model of the universe.

Another problem is that the force between dipoles diminshes as 1/R^4, and
is a function of the dipole orientations.  The resulting force can be
either attracting or repelling.  This is true even when relativistic
considerations are brought to bear.  Producing a gravitational effect
between collections of dipoles then further requires a systematic net
orientation of the dipoles to achieve any net force.  This is very
un-gravity-like property.

I have been able to show that relativsitic effects can be expected to
produce 1/R^2 type electrostatic fields from dipoles posessing circular
charge motions, but the magnitude of the field is dependent upon the angle
of the observer from the plane of circular motion, thus aggregate
orientation like that found in bodies with strong magnetic fields is
required to produce the effect.  This is because, when integrated about all
angles of a single dipole orientation, the net electrostatic force is still
zero.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 18:08:34 2001
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:19:01 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: advanced space propulsion and new energy (fwd)
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At 8:49 AM 8/28/1, Standing Bear wrote:
[snip]
>        However, rehashing old ideas is not what
>this group and others are really about.
[snip]

Since you are such a newbie to the group I would like to recommend that you
read the archives to see what the group is (was?) actually about, namely
serious scientific discussion of experimental anomalies, especially energy
related anomalies, and related theory.  Another list, Vortex-C, was set up
for non-serious, offensive, political, solicitous, or overhashed subjects.
Freenrg is (was?) for more amateur and sometimes more practical discussion
of specific experiments.  Off topic stuff has been often tolerated on
vortex-l, but vortex-C has been provided as a place to divert lengthy
off-topic threads upon subscriber request.   Unfortunately, most of the
serious researchers have either left or gone into lurk mode.   Hopefully
they will return if anything significant develops.  Meanwhile, vortex-l has
largely lost its serious nature.

As for "thinking outside the box", if one is building things of boxes, I
think it is important to discuss the nature and limitation of those boxes,
be they old or new.  It doesn't matter if the construction itself is going
on inside or outside some bigger box.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 18:11:00 2001
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To: vortex-l eskimo.com, <jonathan.dodge@earthlink.net>
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Fw: Update of Dennis Lee From Jack Carey At C.T.
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At 12:16 PM 8/28/1, bruce meland wrote:
>Hi Jonathan; do you want to go with me to Portland Sat eve at he Double Tree
>Motel and take some measurments. I have a wrap around amp meter and a volt
>meter.  Bruce


If you can't determine the input and output power factors the measurements
are useless.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 18:40:39 2001
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:46:09 -0500
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: IT's a Sterling Scooter
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This was a cross post from "Vortex-l"

Seems more and more like Kaman is going into the scooter business.  But 
there is still the cloak of secrecy.



At 11:11 AM 8/28/01 -0400, you wrote:
>'It' Inventor Hires Lobbyist
>To Work State Government Across US
>By Gareth Cook
>
>Boston Globe Staff  8-27-1  Dean Kamen, the New Hampshire
>inventor whose mysterious ''Ginger'' project still draws
>worldwide speculation, has hired a Massachusetts State House aide
>to lobby state governments across the country.
>
>Since January, when word leaked that Kamen had secured a $250,000
>book deal to tell the story of a secret, world-changing
>invention, his every move has been scrutinized for some clues to
>the project, which is also referred to as ''It.''
>
>Kamen has been largely silent on his new invention, and much of
>the same mystery surrounds the job of his new lobbyist. Matthew
>Dailida, currently the chief of staff to House Minority Leader
>Francis Marini (R-Hanson), said next week he would leave his job
>to work for a Kamen company known as ACROS LLC.
>
>''I will be working with a host of new products they have coming
>forward, and obviously Ginger is at the top of that list,'' said
>Dailida, who did not offer further details about either the
>project or what kind of lobbying he would be doing.
>
>As word of Dailida's new job filtered out to his State House
>colleagues, it has added to speculation that Kamen is inching
>closer to going public with Ginger. It has also brought a new
>question: Why would this reclusive inventor want state lobbyists?
>
>Kamen has filed for patents on technology that would allow him to
>build a motorized, self-balancing scooter as well as refinements
>to an engine, known as a Stirling engine, that in theory could
>produce power more efficiently. He has also reserved a number of
>suggestively named Web site names, including
>mystirlingscooter.com and, under the ACROS name, flywheels.com.
>
>If Ginger does turn out to be an improved scooter, it would place
>Kamen in what is becoming fiercely fought legal territory. Just
>last week, New Bedford voted to ban motorized scooters from its
>streets, because, some say, they were becoming a nuisance. But
>scooters are not governed by the same restrictions that cover
>cars.
>
>''The magic words here are `motor vehicle,''' said Massachusetts
>Secretary of State William F. Galvin. Every state, he explained,
>is free to decide whether a vehicle is considered a motor
>vehicle, and to impose the same kind of requirements - licenses,
>insurance, registration, inspections - that apply to cars.
>
>Such regulations could severely limit the market for new
>scooters.
>
>Since January, Kamen has divulged very little about his new
>project. He has also said he couldn't reveal more details for
>business reasons and that the media coverage of Ginger had blown
>the project out of proportion. A spokesman for Kamen declined to
>provide any more details about the hiring of Dailida, the extent
>of Kamen's state lobbying effort, or Ginger.
>
>Specialists in state government said that new technologies could
>invoke a wide range of state laws that could help, or hurt, a
>company. States can impose special taxes, set some environmental
>or safety standards, and even ban the use of certain products.
>
>Dailida, 31, is not registered as a lobbyist in Massachusetts, a
>step he is legally obligated to take before lobbying here,
>according to Galvin. Other states impose similar requirements.
>
>Dailida said he was called by a recruiter who had noticed his
>resume on monster.com, the job-hunting Web site. He said that he
>planned on doing a lot of traveling, and was excited to be a part
>of the celebrated company. His new employer, he added, had
>encouraged him to contain his enthusiasm.
>
>''I've been trying to keep it as low key as possible,'' said
>Dailida.
>
>Copyright 2000 Globe Newspaper Company
>
><end>



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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 19:22:33 2001
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At 12:16 PM 8/28/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Jonathan; do you want to go with me to Portland Sat eve at he Double Tree
>Motel and take some measurments. I have a wrap around amp meter and a volt
>meter.  Bruce
>----- Original Message -----
>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:35 AM
>Subject: Update of Dennis Lee From Jack Carey At C.T.
>
>
> >                  Mr. Ford it is not a matter of eating crow in regard to
> > Dennis Lee. Dennis Lee up to now had an advanced Generator that needed
> > Physically improvements that we at Confidential Technologies have made a
> > portion of. WE are Described by an Article that is attached to this mail
>and
> > is in The current edition of Electrifying Times. Dennis is a promoter that
> > appears to want make a positive difference in our society. He has
>overstated
> > situations in the past but not anymore. He now has real snake oil that
> > actually works to put in his bottle.

Hmm... A rose by any other name....

Sorry I have been busy and appear to have missed a post that was directed 
to me.

Jack:

Change all you like but until you can prove the output is greater then the 
input then it is still just a fancy wherlygig that does nothing.

The current draw that you referred to is normal and natural. You will find 
that the motor output is always slightly less then the electrical input. 
The remainder can be found in the heat EM and acoustical noise.  The 
mechanical power consumption of the generator is also normal.  You will 
find that the electrical output is slightly less then the mechanical 
input.  Again you will find the rest in heat, EM and acoustical noise.  You 
will not be able to tweak or tune these devices to give you greater then 
100% efficiency.

Always always always test the input and output power under the same load 
condition.  Test them simultaneously if possible.

I am sure that you have heard this before

Close the loop and prove it works once and for all.  Power the input 
exclusively from the output.  Then there will be no question that you will 
have broken the cardinal rule of physics and you are making free 
energy.  In the interim it is wise to stay clear of the bunko, be skeptical 
of your own work and make no claims of over unity success.





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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 19:32:03 2001
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Update of Dennis Lee From Jack Carey At C.T.
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At 05:21 PM 8/28/01 -0900, you wrote:
>At 12:16 PM 8/28/1, bruce meland wrote:
> >Hi Jonathan; do you want to go with me to Portland Sat eve at he Double Tree
> >Motel and take some measurments. I have a wrap around amp meter and a volt
> >meter.  Bruce
>
>
>If you can't determine the input and output power factors the measurements
>are useless.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner

Horace:

I most vehemently agree.  In the case of Dennis Lee the two should be 
tested simultaneously.  If front of his audience and as many news people as 
you can muster.









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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Tue Aug 28 19:34:45 2001
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At 08:46 PM 8/28/01 -0500, you wrote:
>This was a cross post from "Vortex-l"
and I forgot to remove the "reply to"

Sorry


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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 29 11:56:26 2001
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Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:28 AM
Subject: Request for information on fusion


> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> I am final year high school student from Sydney Australia and
> am currently researching fusion for a physics assignment. The purpose
> of my research is to identify the NEED for fusion as an energy source
> on Earth, assess the PROBLEMS involving the production of fusion, and
> also to discuss COLD FUSION and assess its potential. If you could
> provide my with any supplementary information on these areas at all it
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Yours Sincerely,
> Aaron Cowper
> cowps_ hotmail.com
> 16 Blackwood Avenue Clovelly, Sydney, NSW, Australia
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 29 12:31:37 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
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	White noise is and can be used to perform a type of spectrum
analysis.

On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, William Beaty wrote:

> 
> J. Benveniste was looking for a simple schematic which had been on a
> defunct website.  It's this one below, and it looks a bit intriguing.  If
> white noise is sent through a test sample using a pair of coils, and if we
> null out the original signal and look for differences, will the difference
> signal vary with different materials? 
> 
>   An implementation of a system to produce audio frequency "Bio-Holograms"
>   http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/bioholo.htm
> 
> It might be better to build TWO coil pairs, one with an air core and one
> with the test sample, then compare the difference between the outputs
> (rather than comparing the test sample with the original noise generator
> signal as this circuit does.) 
> 
> This was in reference to my brief article about Dr. Benveniste's talk at
> SSE 18: 
> 
>   http://amasci.com/freenrg/digibio.html
> 
> His claim is that an EM noise signal which has been passed through a
> biologically active substance can be recorded, then played back into a
> biologically sensitive system, and the system reacts as if the original
> substance had been applied directly.  Interesting... yet the extreme
> sensitivity of the systems he uses might mean that "N-rays" problems would
> arise, and so blind testing might be needed.  On the other hand, if a
> couple of coils could, say, "broadcast" the smell of powerful perfume into
> distilled water, your nose (the sensitive sytem) might clearly sense which
> of several water samples had been so "treated."  Or dispense with the
> water, and see if the coil itself produces a smell in your nasal membranes
> when the "perfume" signal is sent through it...
> 
>   :) 
> 
> 
> ((((((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (    (O)    )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))
> William J. Beaty                                  SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
> billb eskimo.com                                  http://www.amasci.com
> EE/programmer/sci-exhibits          science projects, tesla, weird science
> Seattle, WA   206-789-0775          freenrg-L taoshum-L vortex-L webhead-L
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 29 18:30:29 2001
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From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
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Subject: Superimposed fields comments to Horace
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--part1_7e.19f4fcf8.28bef0dc_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with my reading, but noticed this post.

I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


Horace two 1/r fields superimposed do produce a 1/rr field.  I published an 
article on this in Infinite Energy  called force and gravity.  the 1/r fields 
are generated by the force that configes the wavefunction
form gen realitivity.


field = force / (ccr)

Frank Znidarsic


Frank Znidarsic


--part1_7e.19f4fcf8.28bef0dc_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with my reading, but noticed this post.
<BR>
<BR>I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
<BR>electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
<BR>1/r^2 field. &nbsp;Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
<BR>that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.
<BR>
<BR>Regards,
<BR>
<BR>Horace Heffner &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Horace two 1/r fields superimposed do produce a 1/rr field. &nbsp;I published an 
<BR>article on this in Infinite Energy &nbsp;called force and gravity. &nbsp;the 1/r fields 
<BR>are generated by the force that configes the wavefunction
<BR>form gen realitivity.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>field = force / (ccr)
<BR>
<BR>Frank Znidarsic
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Frank Znidarsic
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_7e.19f4fcf8.28bef0dc_boundary--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 29 20:17:23 2001
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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:27:42 -0900
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: hheffner mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner)
Subject: Re: Superimposed fields comments to Horace
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At 9:29 PM 8/29/1, FZNIDARSIC aol.com wrote:
>Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with my reading, but noticed this post.
>
>I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
>electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
>1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
>that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.
>
>Regards,
>
>Horace Heffner
>
>
>Horace two 1/r fields superimposed do produce a 1/rr field.  I published an
>article on this in Infinite Energy  called force and gravity.  the 1/r fields
>are generated by the force that configes the wavefunction
>form gen realitivity.
>
>
>field = force / (ccr)
>
>Frank Znidarsic

I do not see how what you are saying is relvant.  The discussion is in
regard to  magnetic and electrostatic dipoles.  What kind of poles are you
talking about?  Fpr clarity I repeat: "Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields
(superpositioned fields that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2
fields."

It is of course of interest as to what kind of field is a 1/r field.  Could
you provide some more explanation?

Regards,

Horace Heffner          


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 29 20:26:15 2001
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From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Superimposed fields comments to Horace
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At 09:29 PM 8/29/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with my reading, but noticed this post.

Frank:
Trust me I understand the time crunch. Where P is the number of projects 
you have T=1/P^2  :-)  I too have been choosing my threads carefully as 
time allows.

>I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
>electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
>1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
>that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.

I am confused.  My understanding of the 1/r^2 is directly associated to the 
1/d^2 (inverse square law) that allows us to calculate three dimensional 
distribution of any type of radiated field or substance.  Be it 
electrostatic, electromagnetic, gravity, radiated heat or light.  Even 
spray paint and blasting sand.

Perhaps you are using the word "filed" incorrectly?  Would it be more 
correct to say "Gravity is a field that is distributed by a factor of 1/r^2"?

Here is where it all gets confused.

>Horace two 1/r fields
Show me a 1/r distribution that is not a surface wave  (two dimensional).

>  superimposed do produce a 1/rr field.

Ok so if I superimpose two surface waves then the amplitude "a" sums.  So 
the result is (a1 + a2)/r  If I superimpose two three dimensional waves 
then the result sums also.  (a1 + a2)/r^2 Although I still prefer to use 
"d" for the distance.

>I published an
>article on this in Infinite Energy  called force and gravity.  the 1/r fields
>are generated by the force that configes the wavefunction
>form gen realitivity.

Or perhaps a 1/r field is a different type of field?

>field = force / (ccr)

In this case what is "c" and how did it get to be squared under "force"?




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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Wed Aug 29 21:18:31 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Nature Contents: 30 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6850 pp. 841 -
928
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:30:00 -0400
From: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>
Reply-To: Customer Service <tocreplies appserver5.nature.com>
To: Nature <NatureAlert nature.com>

Nature - Table of Contents
Now available at http://www.nature.com/nature/

Visit Nature online to browse the content of the current issue,
including articles, letters to Nature, brief communications
and web extras.

Please note that you need to be a subscriber to enjoy full text
access to Nature online. To purchase a subscription, please visit
http://www.nature.com/nature/subscribe/

Nature Contents: 30 August 2001 Volume 412 No. 6850
(c)Copyright 2001 Macmillan Publishers Ltd

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The content listing below carries links to abstracts
=====================================================================

---------------------
articles
---------------------
Identification of an angiogenic mitogen selective for endocrine gland
endothelium
J LECOUTER, J KOWALSKI, J FOSTER, P HASS, Z ZHANG, L DILLARD-TELM,
G FRANTZ, L RANGELL, L DEGUZMAN, G-A KELLER, F PEALE, A GURNEY,
K J HILLAN & N FERRARA
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412877a0_fs.html

---------------------
letters to Nature
---------------------
Characterization of extrasolar terrestrial planets from diurnal
photometric variability
E B FORD, S SEAGER & E L TURNER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412885a0_fs.html

Stimulated emission of polarization-entangled photons
A LAMAS-LINARES, J C HOWELL & D BOUWMEESTER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412887a0_fs.html

Mechanism for the destruction of H3+ ions by electron impact
V KOKOOULINE, C H GREENE & B D ESRY
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412891a0_fs.html

Parasitic computing
A-L BARABÁSI, V W FREEH, H JEONG & J B BROCKMAN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412894a0_fs.html

Universal behaviour in compressive failure of brittle materials
C E RENSHAW & E M SCHULSON
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412897a0_fs.html

Transition of Mount Etna lavas from a mantle-plume to an island-arc
magmatic source
P SCHIANO, R CLOCCHIATTI, L OTTOLINI & T BUSŔ
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412900a0_fs.html

Genetic linkage of ecological specialization and reproductive
isolation in pea aphids
D J HAWTHORNE & S VIA
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412904a0_fs.html

Dynamics of travelling waves in visual perception
H R WILSON, R BLAKE & S-H LEE
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412907a0_fs.html

Two-step process for photoreceptor formation in Drosophila
B MOLLEREAU, M DOMINGUEZ, R WEBEL, N J COLLEY, B KEUNG, J F DE CELIS
& C DESPLAN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412911a0_fs.html

Virus-mediated killing of cells that lack p53 activity
K RAJ, P OGSTON & P BEARD
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412914a0_fs.html

Rotational movement during cyclic nucleotide-gated channel opening
J P JOHNSON & W N ZAGOTTA
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412917a0_fs.html

Ablation of XRCC2/3 transforms immunoglobulin V gene conversion into
somatic hypermutation
J E SALE, D M CALANDRINI, M TAKATA, S TAKEDA & M S NEUBERGER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412921a0_fs.html

---------------------
brief communications
---------------------
Animal behaviour: Mother's voice recognition by seal pups 
ISABELLE CHARRIER, NICOLAS MATHEVON & PIERRE JOUVENTIN
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412873a0_fs.html

Palaeontology: The beaks of ostrich dinosaurs
M A NORELL, P J MAKOVICKY & P J CURRIE
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412873b0_fs.html

Nanostructures: Self-assembled domain patterns
R PLASS, J A LAST, N C BARTELT & G L KELLOGG
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412875a0_fs.html

Malaria: Cooperative silencing elements in var genes
K W DEITSCH, M S CALDERWOOD & T E WELLEMS
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v412/n6850/abs/412875b0_fs.html

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The content listing below is accessible only through a subscription.
To purchase a subscription, please visit:
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---------------------
opinion
---------------------
Decision time at Yucca Mountain

Women worse off (cont.)

---------------------
news
---------------------
Japan's plans for space merger spark fears for basic research

Stem-cell list offers sixty-four lines

Elusive fossil could conceal answer to dinosaur debate

Staff survey shows women feel out in the cold at Caltech

LED pioneer seeks reward in court

Joint venture on biochips ends in disarray

It's a dog's life for Siberian foxes

Funding bonanza for astronomy and biotech in Australia

Canada unveils plans to build nanotechnology centre...

...as mathematicians beat retreat to Alberta

Green-fingered gang could hold climate key

Earliest malaria DNA found in Roman baby graveyard

news in brief

---------------------
news feature
---------------------
Out of sight, out of mind?

Brought down to Earth

---------------------
correspondence
---------------------
Collaboration with Japan could be more tempting
A DAVISON

Could a website teach communication skills?
V K BHASIN

Curious effects created by reversal of colour
M KEMP

---------------------
book reviews
---------------------
The electrifying Australian: D PENNY reviews Platypus:
The Extraordinary Story of How a Curious Creature Baffled the World
by Ann Moyal

A world without competition: P A ABRAMS reviews
The Unified Neutral Theory of Biodiversity and Biogeography
by Stephen P. Hubbell

Fertility from a metabolic viewpoint: R V SHORT reviews
On Fertile Ground: A Natural History of Human Reproduction
by Peter T. Ellison

Science in culture

---------------------
news and views
---------------------
Medicine: Achilles' heel of cancer?
B VOGELSTEIN & K W KINZLER

Quantum optics: Photons yield to peer pressure
P KWIAT

Cardiovascular biology: Creating unique blood vessels
P CARMELIET

Quantum engineering: Protecting the quantum world
J PABLO PAZ

Immunology: Antibody alterations
A MARTIN & M D SCHARFF

Chemistry: Mystery of an interstellar ion
A SUZOR-WEINER & I F SCHNEIDER

Daedalus: A cosmic background
D JONES

100 and 50 years ago: Through a looking glass

---------------------
new on the market
---------------------
Going separate ways

=====================================================================
Links to freely available content on www.nature.com
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Nerve chip goes live
First nerve cell-silicon microchip built.
http://www.nature.com/nsu/010830/010830-7.html

Human gene number climbs
New estimate ups our gene number by a third.
http://www.nature.com/nsu/010830/010830-4.html

Pots pan bugs
Copper kitchenware may lower food-poisoning risk.
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 09:12:50 2001
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Message-ID: <00fa01c1316e$f56539e0$92181ad8 oemcomputer>
From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
References: <000701c11b92$c024d8e0$95181ad8 oemcomputer> <003a01c11bf6$a531e5a0$a68f209a@ggrf30j> <00a101c124fe$bc30ea60$64181ad8@oemcomputer> <3mpjnt0o0jqtrvl7d503d0asaqmr7i6l6j@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:15:12 -0700
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Yes time is infinite
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: Alien Hugging, Old KGB & Occult 3rd Reich


> In reply to  bruce meland's message of Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:21:41 -0700:
> [snip]
> >Zeta Reticlium, 200 million years advanced; Pleadies and 300 million
years
> >advanced; and Pugarians are 2 trillion years advanced (from humans).
Bruce
> [snip]
> Hi Bruce,
>
> I take it this means there was no Big Bang, or they found a means to
> survive it?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> A Blueprint for Territorial Dispute Resolution:-
> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Independence.htm
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 09:16:44 2001
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Message-ID: <011701c1316f$7f7528c0$92181ad8 oemcomputer>
From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Cc: "Robin van Spaandonk" <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
References: <000301c0ed17$77a051c0$ef181ad8 oemcomputer> <mffoht0ulll8hk6hd6g8j3k7p5mrvumfus@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Candidate for universal gravitational glue
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:19:04 -0700
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Hi
Robin; If you can afford the time and money for a trip to the Phillipines I
think I can arrange a demo that will prove that these devices exist. Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin van Spaandonk <rvanspaa bigpond.net.au>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Candidate for universal gravitational glue


> In reply to  Bruce Meland's message of Mon, 4 Jun 2001 09:38:47 -0700:
>
> >After observing the energy generated from nutrino type particles, and
> >perhaps magnetic fields of earth and stars if they are present here on
earth
> >in sufficient quanity(stars magnetic fields overlapping the earth), light
> >particles from the sun seem insignificant. Other cosmic rays, such as
mesons
> >may also be involved. Bruce
> Face it Bruce, until someone comes up with a real stand alone device
> that pours out kWs, we aren't going to have a clue where the energy
> comes from, if indeed it does.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> A Future For Humanity see: http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
> New model hydrogen atom see
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/New-hydrogen.html
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 09:42:21 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
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Subject: Fw: NEW ENERGY TECHNOLOGY
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:44:01 -0700
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Anybody got an opinion about this technology? Bruce
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Paul E. Sully=20
To: etimes teleport.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 10:25 PM
Subject: NEW ENERGY TECHNOLOGY


Chief,

please take a closer look at this; =
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418  see attachment =
also thanks.


                                                                         =
                                                        REGARDS

                                                                         =
                                                        Paul sully

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Anybody got an opinion about this technology?=20
Bruce</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ps5 bellsouth.net" title=3Dps5@bellsouth.net>Paul E. =
Sully</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:etimes teleport.com"=20
title=3Detimes teleport.com>etimes@teleport.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 16, 2001 10:25 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> NEW ENERGY TECHNOLOGY</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Chief,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D3>please take a closer =
look at=20
this;<FONT size=3D2> <A=20
href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418">http://w=
ww.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418</A>&nbsp;=20
see attachment also thanks.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial=20
size=3D3>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
REGARDS</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
face=3DArial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Paul sully</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------=_NextPart_000_0172_01C13138.4C9D6E80--

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 12:50:24 2001
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:56:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Fw: NEW ENERGY TECHNOLOGY
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	Great animation.... the energy comes from the software.


				J


On Thu, 30 Aug 2001, bruce meland wrote:


  [NON-Text Body part not included]

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 14:27:27 2001
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:26:46 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: NEW ENERGY TECHNOLOGY
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Bruce:

In light of the recent deluge of various different virus attachments.  I 
feel the need to ask you if you have sent the file
"ContinuousMotionTOW.doc" to the Vortex group.

If so please respond.  I am sure the entire group is curious.
If not then you may have caught a bug.


At 09:44 AM 8/30/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Anybody got an opinion about this technology? Bruce
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:ps5 bellsouth.net>Paul E. Sully
>To: <mailto:etimes teleport.com>etimes@teleport.com
>Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 10:25 PM
>Subject: NEW ENERGY TECHNOLOGY
>
>Chief,
>
>please take a closer look at this; 
><http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418>http://www.geociti 
>es.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/8418  see attachment also thanks.
>
>
> 
 >                                                       REGARDS

> 
 >                                                       Paul sully


_________________________________________________________
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In a message dated 8/29/01 11:39:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cjford1 yahoo.com writes:


> Ok so if I superimpose two surface waves then the amplitude "a" sums.  So 
> the result is (a1 + a2)/r  If I superimpose two three dimensional waves 
> then the result sums also.  (a1 + a2)/r^2 Although I still prefer to use 
> "d" for the distance.


Here is what I have done.  I admitt that it is anfinished 2d model.
Keep in mind that I have also derived the debroglie wavelength and the 
relativistic mass of
moving matter from this simple low energy model.
> 
>     GRAVITATIONAL MASS
> 
> 
> 
>               Einstein's principle of equivalence states that
> 
>          gravitational and inertial mass are the same  .
>                                                       4
>          Gravitational mass then must be generated by the same
> 
>          mechanism that produces inertial mass.  The reflection of
> 
>          the energy off of the walls of the containment must also
> 
>          generate the gravitational mass of the energy in the box.
> 
>          It is well known that the gravitational field can generate a
> 
>          force.  This the gravitational force is given by equation
> 
>          #11.
> 
> 
> 
>          The force of gravity = mg                 Eq #11
> 
> 
> 
>                                                                           8
> 
> 
> 
>          It is less well known that the application of a force also
> 
>          induces a gravitation field.  The application of a force
> 
>          must induce gravity in order to conserve a symmetrical
> 
>          relationship between the forces.  For example, a changing
> 
>          magnetic field will induce an electrical field and
> 
>          conversely a changing electrical field will induce a
> 
>          magnetic field.   Likewise the application of a force also         
>                
>                        5
> 
>         induces a gravitational field.  The application of a force
> 
>          must also produce gravity in order to conserve momentum.  If
> 
>          mass is pushed into the established field of other mass time
> 
>          is required for the gravitational field of pushed matter to
> 
>          reach the other mass.  To conserve momentum during this
> 
>          interval an induced gravitational field is required. The
> 
>          relationship between the induced gravitational field and the
> 
>          force of acceleration as demonstrated by General Relativity
> 
>            is given by equation #12.         6
> 
> 
> 
>          Eg = (G/(ccr))(dp/dt)                      Eq #12
> 
>                              G = the grav constant
>                              r = the grav radius
>                           dp/dt = Force
>                           Eg = The gravitational field in Newtons/kg
> 
> 
>          Each time the energy strikes the wall of the containment (or
> 
>          the surface of matter) it produces a gravitation field
> 
>          according to equation #12.  An exact mathematical analysis
> 
>          of the gravitational field produced by the photon in the box
> 
>          will now be undertaken.
> 
>          Ref figure #1
> 
> 
>                                                                           9
> 
> 
> 
>          
>          L = The dimensions of the box
>          p = momentum
>          t = the time required for the photon to directly traverse the box 
> = L/c
>          r = the distance to point X
> 
> 
>          The far gravitational field at point X is the vector sum of
> 
>          the field produced by the impacts on walls A and B. This
> 
>          field is given by Equation #13.
> 
> 
>          Field        = 1/r field from wall A - 1/r field from wall B       
>         
>               (at X)
> 
>          Eq #13
>                      = (G/(cc(r+L))) dp/dt  - (G/(ccr)) dp/dt
> 
>                      = -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(L/(rr+rL))
> 
>          Taking the limit to obtain the far field yields Eq 14 .            
>                                                   7
> 
>          lim -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(k/(rr+rL)) = -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(L/rr)
>          as r>>k                                            Eq #14
> 
> 
>          The change in momentum in the simplistic box modelis given by Eq. 
> #15.
> 
> 
>       dp/dt = /\ p / /\ t = (2E/c)/(L/c) = 2E/L       Eq #15
> 
> 
>          In order to remain consistent with the first argument only
>          half of the energy will be considered to be impacting on
>          wall "A" of the containment. The other half of the energy
>          will be considered to impacting on wall "B" of the
>          containment.  Substituting Eq #15 into Eq #14 and adding a
>          factor of 1/2 is yields Equation #16.
> 
> 
>          Field       =1/2(G/cc)(2E/L)(L/rr)        Eq 16              
>              (at X)
> 
>          Substituting mass for energy yields Equation #17.
> 
>          Field       = -GM/rr                            Eq #17             
>  
>               (at X)
> 
> 
>          The result, equation #17, is Newton's formula of gravity .         
>                                                         8
> 
>          This second analysis clearly shows that gravitational mass
> 
>          is produced by the force of containment at the surface of
> 
>          matter.
> 
> 
>                                                                           10
> 
> 
> 
>           

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 8/29/01 11:39:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
<BR>cjford1 yahoo.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ok so if I superimpose two surface waves then the amplitude "a" sums. &nbsp;So 
<BR>the result is (a1 + a2)/r &nbsp;If I superimpose two three dimensional waves 
<BR>then the result sums also. &nbsp;(a1 + a2)/r^2 Although I still prefer to use 
<BR>"d" for the distance.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Here is what I have done. &nbsp;I admitt that it is anfinished 2d model.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Keep in mind that I have also derived the debroglie wavelength and the 
<BR>relativistic mass of
<BR>moving matter from this simple low energy model.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;GRAVITATIONAL MASS
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Einstein's principle of equivalence states that
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;gravitational and inertial mass are the same &nbsp;.
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;4
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Gravitational mass then must be generated by the same
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;mechanism that produces inertial mass. &nbsp;The reflection of
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the energy off of the walls of the containment must also
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;generate the gravitational mass of the energy in the box.
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It is well known that the gravitational field can generate a
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;force. &nbsp;This the gravitational force is given by equation
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;#11.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The force of gravity = mg &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #11
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It is less well known that the application of a force also
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;induces a gravitation field. &nbsp;The application of a force
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;must induce gravity in order to conserve a symmetrical
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;relationship between the forces. &nbsp;For example, a changing
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;magnetic field will induce an electrical field and
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;conversely a changing electrical field will induce a
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;magnetic field. &nbsp;&nbsp;Likewise the application of a force also &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;5
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;induces a gravitational field. &nbsp;The application of a force
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;must also produce gravity in order to conserve momentum. &nbsp;If
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;mass is pushed into the established field of other mass time
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is required for the gravitational field of pushed matter to
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;reach the other mass. &nbsp;To conserve momentum during this
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;interval an induced gravitational field is required. The
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;relationship between the induced gravitational field and the
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;force of acceleration as demonstrated by General Relativity
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is given by equation #12. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;6
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eg = (G/(ccr))(dp/dt) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #12
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;G = the grav constant
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;r = the grav radius
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;dp/dt = Force
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eg = The gravitational field in Newtons/kg
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Each time the energy strikes the wall of the containment (or
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the surface of matter) it produces a gravitation field
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;according to equation #12. &nbsp;An exact mathematical analysis
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of the gravitational field produced by the photon in the box
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;will now be undertaken.
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Ref figure #1
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;9
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;L = The dimensions of the box
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;p = momentum
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;t = the time required for the photon to directly traverse the box 
<BR>= L/c
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;r = the distance to point X
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The far gravitational field at point X is the vector sum of
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the field produced by the impacts on walls A and B. This
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;field is given by Equation #13.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Field &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= 1/r field from wall A - 1/r field from wall B &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(at X)
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #13
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= (G/(cc(r+L))) dp/dt &nbsp;- (G/(ccr)) dp/dt
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(L/(rr+rL))
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Taking the limit to obtain the far field yields Eq 14 . &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;7
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;lim -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(k/(rr+rL)) = -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(L/rr)
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;as r&gt;&gt;k &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #14
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The change in momentum in the simplistic box modelis given by Eq. 
<BR>#15.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;dp/dt = /\ p / /\ t = (2E/c)/(L/c) = 2E/L &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #15
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;In order to remain consistent with the first argument only
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;half of the energy will be considered to be impacting on
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;wall "A" of the containment. The other half of the energy
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;will be considered to impacting on wall "B" of the
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;containment. &nbsp;Substituting Eq #15 into Eq #14 and adding a
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;factor of 1/2 is yields Equation #16.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Field &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=1/2(G/cc)(2E/L)(L/rr) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq 16 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(at X)
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Substituting mass for energy yields Equation #17.
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Field &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= -GM/rr &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&
nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #17 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(at X)
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The result, equation #17, is Newton's formula of gravity . &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;8
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;This second analysis clearly shows that gravitational mass
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is produced by the force of containment at the surface of
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;matter.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;10
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></HTML>

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:31:44 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Superimposed fields comments to Horace
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At 09:29 PM 8/29/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry, I haven't been able to keep up with my reading, but noticed this post.

Frank:
Trust me I understand the time crunch. Where P is the number of projects 
you have T=1/P^2  :-)  I too have been choosing my threads carefully as 
time allows.

>I feel compelled to point out that no ordinary dipole field, be it from
>electrostatic or magnetic poles, can simulate gravity because gravity is a
>1/r^2 field.  Dipoles do not produce 1/r^2 fields (superpositioned fields
>that is) when the poles themselves produce 1/r^2 fields.

I am confused.  My understanding of the 1/r^2 is directly associated to the 
1/d^2 (inverse square law) that allows us to calculate three dimensional 
distribution of any type of radiated field or substance.  Be it 
electrostatic, electromagnetic, gravity, radiated heat or light.  Even 
spray paint and blasting sand.

Perhaps you are using the word "filed" incorrectly?  Would it be more 
correct to say "Gravity is a field that is distributed by a factor of 1/r^2"?

Here is where it all gets confused.

>Horace two 1/r fields
Show me a 1/r distribution that is not a surface wave  (two dimensional).

>  superimposed do produce a 1/rr field.

Ok so if I superimpose two surface waves then the amplitude "a" sums.  So 
the result is (a1 + a2)/r  If I superimpose two three dimensional waves 
then the result sums also.  (a1 + a2)/r^2 Although I still prefer to use 
"d" for the distance.

>I published an
>article on this in Infinite Energy  called force and gravity.  the 1/r fields
>are generated by the force that configes the wavefunction
>form gen realitivity.

Or perhaps a 1/r field is a different type of field?

>field = force / (ccr)

In this case what is "c" and how did it get to be squared under "force"?




_________________________________________________________
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 20:12:17 2001
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:17:21 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: Charles Ford <cjford1 yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Superimposed fields comments to Horace
In-Reply-To: <130.e2b556.28c02ebb aol.com>
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At 08:05 PM 8/30/01 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 8/29/01 11:39:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>cjford1 yahoo.com writes:
>
>
>>Ok so if I superimpose two surface waves then the amplitude "a" sums.  So
>>the result is (a1 + a2)/r  If I superimpose two three dimensional waves
>>then the result sums also.  (a1 + a2)/r^2 Although I still prefer to use
>>"d" for the distance.
>
>
>
>Here is what I have done.  I admitt that it is anfinished 2d model.
>Keep in mind that I have also derived the debroglie wavelength and the
>relativistic mass of
>moving matter from this simple low energy model.
>>
>>    GRAVITATIONAL MASS
>>
>>              Einstein's principle of equivalence states that
>>         gravitational and inertial mass are the same  .
>>                                                     4
>>         Gravitational mass then must be generated by the same
>>         mechanism that produces inertial mass.  The reflection of
>>         the energy off of the walls of the containment must also
>>         generate the gravitational mass of the energy in the box.
>>         It is well known that the gravitational field can generate a
>>         force.  This the gravitational force is given by equation
>>         #11.
>>
>>         The force of gravity = mg                 Eq #11
>>
>>                                                                          8
>>         It is less well known that the application of a force also
>>         induces a gravitation field.  The application of a force
>>         must induce gravity in order to conserve a symmetrical
>>         relationship between the forces.  For example, a changing
>>         magnetic field will induce an electrical field and
>>         conversely a changing electrical field will induce a
>>         magnetic field.   Likewise the application of a force also
>>
>>                       5

Frank:

Can I take a moment to gig you on the basic concept.

Force does not create a loss of smithy.  The attractive force is shared by 
all of the masses involved.

Each mass being its own separate object or a portion of a larger object 
acts on each other mass with equal force according to the distance to the 
other masses.  to calculate this we still use the formula (in the basics) 
f=1/d^2.    It is the true distribution of the total force.

In the case of a complex mass one must ba able to integrate each smaller 
mass that is a part of that mass.  So.  G here on earth is the sum of the 
forces of each smaller mass that makes up the entire planet.  Some are 
closer and some are farther away but each adds to the total.  Each mass 
radiates its field equally in a sphere so each mass maintains its own 
symmetry.  By integrating these forces you can reduce a complex mass (like 
a planet) that is roughly spherical to f = f/r^2  where "f" is the force at 
the surface of the sphere and "r" is the radius of the sphere.

So if I "superimpose" gravity fields then the force sums and the sum of the 
force varies accordingly with the some of the mass and the   Einstein 
formula works perfectly.

When one object strikes another then momentum is conserved because the two 
masses then become one mass.  Each momentum sums giving the total mass a 
total momentum.  IF the two objects strike and separate then the momentum 
is distributed according to the specifics of the coalition. The hardness of 
each object and the impact vectors all play into this.

Notice the very heavy use of the words "sum" and "total"

Also you still have not explained the variable "c" in your formulas.






_________________________________________________________
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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 20:42:37 2001
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From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Frank,

Can we conclude the cause of gravity is direction change energy flow but nothing else?

This is suggested by mirror box example and assuming matter is condensed form of energy,
where the mirror box is actually a simplified model of matter. 

Even the gravitational field of a mass at rest could be explain by continual energy flow change inside the matter due it microscopic dynamic.

According the mirror box, gravitational field produced by photons should be anisotropic, and its appears logical to me. Assuming the matter is equivalent randomly oriented large number of boxes, isotropy of natural gravity can be obtained by the homogen d
istribution of box orientations.

Can you clarify the this issue?

This conclusion appears not compatible with GR,   does it?


> >
> >
> >         It is less well known that the application of a force also
> >
> >         induces a gravitation field.  The application of a force
> >
> >         must induce gravity in order to conserve a symmetrical
> >
> >         relationship between the forces.  For example, a changing
> >
> >         magnetic field will induce an electrical field and
> >
> >         conversely a changing electrical field will induce a
> >
> >         magnetic field.   Likewise the application of a force also
> >
> >                       5
> >
> >        induces a gravitational field.  The application of a force
> >
> >         must also produce gravity in order to conserve momentum.  If
> >

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Thu Aug 30 20:48:21 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:47:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Warning about free energy devices
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
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The point of getting a patent is to provide protection for new technology to 
the inventor, however licenses to this technology will be available.  To 
proceed with practicing of this patent within the USA without a license 
constitutes infringement.

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html

< Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
 
 > >not understand how the thing works. In other words, people skilled in the
 > >art cannot reproduce the machine from the patent. And that means the 
patent
 > >is null and void.
 >[snip]
 >A good technician can probably reproduce the device from a set of plans
 >(i.e. the patent). That doesn't necessarily mean that he understands the
 >physical principles involved in its operation.
 

 <If a good technician cannot do this, the patent will be ruled invalid.
In a message dated 8/27/01 9:20:48 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jedrothwell infinite-energy.com writes:
 
 <Once the technician has done the job, there are thousands of other 
 scientists standing by, who will soon understand the physical principles. 
 No principle can remain hidden for long. This device, if real, would soon 
 attract the attention of many talented people.>
 
 - Jed >

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 01:27:24 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Hypercom59 aol.com
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: PATENT  energy devices
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	The purpose of the USPTO and the patent:

	The patent is a reward.   An inducement.  To give the technology
to the US to all citizens for their beneft.
	The reward is the right to practice for 17 years exclusively.


	THIS is the REAL idea behind the patent.....

	BUT.... how it is interpreted and practiced, may be other.
	Due to GATT your application may become public record in 18
months... even if your patent has not been granted yet....

	The patent is intended to make it possible for anyone skilled in
the art to duplicate... if there is missing information, the patent can be
challenged .... and it can be for other reasons as well, including but not
limited to:

	Infringement
	wrong inventor
	prior art
	in public domain
	it can be a bad patent... in other words if the patent claims a
thin piece of cotton string will serve as a barrier to molten iron....
then this is not true.... it is false... it is a bad patent.... There are
many such.
	Just because a patent is granted does NOT mean it is:

	True
	Correct
	Accurate
	Valid
	Not a copy or plagerized from other work
 	Is even anything by a thought-dream
	Does not mean it has even been built or owrks in any form

	It is ONLY a paper with claims and text.... often valuable ... but
no more than paper and text.







On Thu, 30 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> The point of getting a patent is to provide protection for new technology to 
> the inventor, however licenses to this technology will be available.  To 
> proceed with practicing of this patent within the USA without a license 
> constitutes infringement.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Chris Arnold
> http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html
> 
> < Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>  
>  > >not understand how the thing works. In other words, people skilled in the
>  > >art cannot reproduce the machine from the patent. And that means the 
> patent
>  > >is null and void.
>  >[snip]
>  >A good technician can probably reproduce the device from a set of plans
>  >(i.e. the patent). That doesn't necessarily mean that he understands the
>  >physical principles involved in its operation.
>  
> 
>  <If a good technician cannot do this, the patent will be ruled invalid.
> In a message dated 8/27/01 9:20:48 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> jedrothwell infinite-energy.com writes:
>  
>  <Once the technician has done the job, there are thousands of other 
>  scientists standing by, who will soon understand the physical principles. 
>  No principle can remain hidden for long. This device, if real, would soon 
>  attract the attention of many talented people.>
>  
>  - Jed >
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 02:07:27 2001
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From: hamdi ucar <hamdix verisoft.com.tr>
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Please note that the paper "Impulse Gravity Generator Based on Charged YBa_2Cu_3O_{7-y}
Superconductor with Composite Crystal Structure" http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0108005
is updated.

Web site gravity.org is also updated by an announcement of a forum.


Authors: Evgeny Podkletnov, Giovanni Modanese
Comments: LaTeX, 32 pages, 7 figures in separated GIF and JPG files. v2: two misprints corrected; Ref. 4 corrected.
Some additional material is available at www.gravity.org

Subj-class: General Physics
Note: replaced with revised version Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:25:42 GMT (147kb)

Regards,
hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 02:37:49 2001
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Subject: Re: Fwd: Superimposed fields ... - Cosmological speculations
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Hi,

Some additional speculations about the the change of energy flow vector is cause of the gravity:

- Accelerated or steady expansion of the universe could be the cause of the Cosmological constant, which may be similar to mirrors getting apart in mirror box experiment.
 
- Inflation at big bang may be caused by a positive feedback mechanism where the gravity holding the energy together is broken by outward acceleration of the energy , thus allowing further acceleration.




hamdi ucar wrote:
> 
> Frank,
> 
> Can we conclude the cause of gravity is direction change energy flow but nothing else?
> 
> This is suggested by mirror box example and assuming matter is condensed form of energy,
> where the mirror box is actually a simplified model of matter.
> 
> Even the gravitational field of a mass at rest could be explain by continual energy flow change inside the matter due it microscopic dynamic.
> 
> According the mirror box, gravitational field produced by photons should be anisotropic, and its appears logical to me. Assuming the matter is equivalent randomly oriented large number of boxes, isotropy of natural gravity can be obtained by the homogen
 distribution of box orientations.
> 

Regards,

hamdi ucar

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 05:58:27 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:56:57 EDT
Subject: Re: PATENT  energy devices
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In a message dated 8/31/01 3:26:41 AM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> The purpose of the USPTO and the patent:
 >  The patent is a reward.  An inducement.  To give the technology
> to the US to all citizens for their beneft.
>   The reward is the right to practice for 17 years exclusively.

20 years from priority date.  Like I said "practicing of this patent within 
the USA without a license constitutes infringement."
 
>The patent is intended to make it possible for anyone skilled in
> the art to duplicate...

As long as that person (in the USA) has a license.

>if there is missing information, the patent can be challenged. 

Nothing is missing from the patent.

Licenses are available - and to pre-qualified licensees, a proof of principle 
demonstration will be held.  CRADA agreement should also be considered as 
essential.

This IS a new energy technology.

Best Regards,
Chris Arnold
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>
 
    

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 08:20:53 2001
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From: John Schnurer <herman antioch-college.edu>
To: Hypercom59 aol.com
cc: vortex-l eskimo.com
Subject: Re: PATENT  energy devices
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	The patent law requires the patent be complete in and of itself
for purposes of conveying the information.  If a unit is made for personal
use and not sold this does not falll under the guidelines of
infringement... only if manufactured and sold or distributed to others.



On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 Hypercom59 aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/01 3:26:41 AM Central Daylight Time, 
> herman antioch-college.edu writes:
> > The purpose of the USPTO and the patent:
>  >  The patent is a reward.  An inducement.  To give the technology
> > to the US to all citizens for their beneft.
> >   The reward is the right to practice for 17 years exclusively.
> 
> 20 years from priority date.  Like I said "practicing of this patent within 
> the USA without a license constitutes infringement."
>  
> >The patent is intended to make it possible for anyone skilled in
> > the art to duplicate...
> 
> As long as that person (in the USA) has a license.
> 
> >if there is missing information, the patent can be challenged. 
> 
> Nothing is missing from the patent.
> 
> Licenses are available - and to pre-qualified licensees, a proof of principle 
> demonstration will be held.  CRADA agreement should also be considered as 
> essential.
> 


	What constitutes a prequalified licnsee?

					
				J





> This IS a new energy technology.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Chris Arnold
> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
> http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>
>  
>     
> 

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 08:55:52 2001
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From: "bruce meland" <etimes teleport.com>
To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>, "Remy C." <remyc@prodigy.net>
Cc: <editor educate-yourself.org>
Subject: Fw: Ken Adachi
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:58:12 -0700
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Hi Ken; I know your point well  as well as Dr. Lindemans, whose article was
featured in our latest edition of Electrifying Times, but it is most
difficult for inventors who have spent their lifes savings and work on the
devices. One other approach is to go off shore in countries where supression
is not present and free energy is welcomed. Some have gone to small oil rich
countries in the mid east where they need electricity for their masses. I
think this is an ok route to go for the inventor to get some economic
rewards for their efforts. I know some inventors that have revolutionary
technology are under protection of the small countries that they reside.
What is your addres as we will send you a copy of this edition, Bruce
Meland, editor-publisher www.electrifyingtimes.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Remy C. <remyc prodigy.net>
To: Bruce Meland <etimes teleport.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 8:38 AM
Subject: Ken Adachi


> Intro By Ken Adachi
> Editor educate-yourself.org
> 8-20-1
>
> I played a role in helping to arrange for an important lecture on
September
> 12, 2000 in Irvine, California by Peter Lindemann titled "The Cold
> Electricity Secrets of Edwin Gray". Prior to that, we had often talked on
> the phone about free energy topics and had both agreed that the only way
to
> get free energy "secrets" out to the public is to simply give it way and
> forget about making money. Any attempt at going the conventional route by
> applying for patents and lining up money with venture capitalists, etc.,
was
> doomed to fail (as history has repeatedly demonstrated) at the hands of
the
> controlling corporate elites and their pals in the military and
government.
> This well written essay by Peter Lindemann is a fair accounting of the
> reality of free energy today and of the forces that have conspired to keep
> these marvelous technologies from benefiting the common man -for nearly a
> century. That time of suppression has now passed. Thanks to the Internet,
> the cat is definitely out of the bag and in more ways than one
> (unfortunately and fortunately) it's a Brave New World. - Ken Adachi ___
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 09:06:54 2001
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> From: "karita" <mediator mint.ocn.ne.jp>
> To: <pgb padrak.com>
> Subject: possible graviton car & new energy
> Date: Thu, 17 May 2001
>
> Gravitonics, Gravitational Waves, are the keys for the 21st century.
> They are for human & global health and environment.  The new technology.
> Please download from my web and try them out!
> possible graviton car
>
> The First World Gravitonics Conference
> --The New Technology for the 21st Century--
> http://www.geocites.com/karitahdu/gravitonpower.html
>
> Will Be Held at Himeji Dokkyo University, Himeji City, Japan
> October 21st(Sunday)~22nd(Monday), 2001
>
> October 21st(Sunday)
> starting at 1:30 pm
> I. What is "Graviton?"
>
> Dr. Hideo Seki's Theory
>
> II. Possible Applications for Graviton Power
> 1. Improvement of Health &
> Environment
> 2. Graviton Cars
> 3. Communicational Tools
> 4. New Energy Source
>
> October 22nd(Monday)
> starting at 10:30 am
> III. The Methods for Developing Graviton Softwares,
> Graviton Source Device, or
> The Graviton Collector, Intensifier, & Producer
> --Revealing the Top Secret of the New Technology--
> IV. Testimonials
> Case Studies
> V. Gravitonics As Global Inputs
>
> Those who would like to attend the First World Gravitonics Conference
should
> apply as soon as possible to:
>
> Masakazu Karita by e-mail: mediator mint.ocn.ne.jp
>
> The Number of the Available Seats Are Limited.:
> --first comes, first served basis--
>
>
>

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 09:31:08 2001
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From: Hypercom59 aol.com
Message-ID: <131.e848e5.28c1158c aol.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:30:04 EDT
Subject: Re: PATENT  energy devices
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In a message dated 8/31/2001 11:11:06 AM Central Daylight Time, 
herman antioch-college.edu writes:

< If a unit is made for personal use and not sold this does not falll under 
the guidelines of infringement... >

The private construction and use of my patented device denies my right to 
sole practice of this invention and new ideas that will spring from 
experimentation with it. That is what a License and Cooperative Research And 
Development Agreement (CRADA ) is specifically for - the development of 
Future technologies that would not be possible "without" the practice of the 
patented invention.

Best Regards,
Chris
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html">
http://members.aol.com/hypercom59/index.html</A>


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 11:07:51 2001
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Subject: NPR Science Friday may feature McKubre interview
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Ira Flatow of the NPR radio program "Science Friday" is scheduled to 
interview Michael McKubre. The topic is reportedly the massive tritium 
found in an Arata style cell after an experiment run at SRI. A paper about 
this event is scheduled to be published soon. I have described the event 
here, briefly. I look forward to learning more about it. Unfortunately we 
do not get "Science Friday" here in a Atlanta.

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 11:13:36 2001
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: http://www.sciencefriday.com/ lists McKubre
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This web site:

http://www.sciencefriday.com/

. . . lists McKubre for today, August 31. There may be a way to hear the 
broadcast on this site. I have not figured it out yet.

The broadcast in progress can be heard here:

http://www.sciencefriday.com/streaming.html

- Jed

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 11:25:33 2001
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From: Steve Krivit <STEVE DLSI.NET>
To: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>,
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Jed:

I just surfed over the the stream and am listening now.
Did I miss Mckubre or do you know if his interview is yet to come?

Thanks,

Steve

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 11:30:06 2001
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I'm listening to the show right now, on WBUR (90.9 FM) in Boston
The first hour of the show is on the genetics of aging
that's all they've been talking about
I didn't hear the opening announcement for the 2nd hour's topic



From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 11:38:11 2001
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From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
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Steve Krivit wrote:

>I just surfed over the the stream and am listening now.
>Did I miss Mckubre or do you know if his interview is yet to come?

??? . . . I don't know.

He is listed on the web site. It says:

Why is it that some people can smoke, drink, eat all the wrong things and 
live to be a hundred? One group of researchers thinks the answer might lie 
in our genes. . . . We'll talk about it in this hour of Science Friday. 
Plus, a strange new benchtop discovery.....


- Jed

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he just annoucned "when we come back.....strange discovery in a lab 
experiment"
interview eta 2 minutes..  (1143 pst)

 ----------
From: Steve Krivit
To: Jed Rothwell; vortex-L eskimo.com; Steve Krivit
Subject: RE: http://www.sciencefriday.com/ lists
Date: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:27AM


Jed:

I just surfed over the the stream and am listening now.
Did I miss Mckubre or do you know if his interview is yet to come?

Thanks,

Steve

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 12:04:21 2001
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From: Steve Krivit <STEVE DLSI.NET>
To: VORTEX <vortex-l eskimo.com>
Subject: Congrats McKubre
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:06:00 -0700
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An excellent interview.
If you missed it, transcripts can be purchased from NPR
877.677.8398


Thank you Jed for the announcement !

Steve


From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 12:09:58 2001
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Yup, just listened to it.

Dr. McKubre gave reasonably smart answers
to some rather dim questions posed by the interviewer.
I can see why you guys get into such a huff about the media coverage. 
Smirking...Ouch.

So they found tritium inside the cathode? What
is the proposed reaction?

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Krivit [mailto:STEVE DLSI.net]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 2:44 PM
To: Steve Krivit; Jed Rothwell; vortex-L eskimo.com
Subject: RE: http://www.sciencefriday.com/ lists


he just annoucned "when we come back.....strange discovery in a lab 
experiment"
interview eta 2 minutes..  (1143 pst)

 ----------
From: Steve Krivit
To: Jed Rothwell; vortex-L eskimo.com; Steve Krivit
Subject: RE: http://www.sciencefriday.com/ lists
Date: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:27AM


Jed:

I just surfed over the the stream and am listening now.
Did I miss Mckubre or do you know if his interview is yet to come?

Thanks,

Steve

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 12:45:51 2001
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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:44:44 -0400
To: vortex-L eskimo.com
From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothwell infinite-energy.com>
Subject: Summary of McKubre interview on NPR
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Michael McKubre of SRI was interviewed for 15 minutes by Ira Flatow on NPR 
Science Friday, on August 31, 2001. Here are some of the main points, from 
a tape recording with a few notes added by me.

SRI replicated the Arata experiment, using a DS-cathode supplied by Arata 
himself. McKubre says that Arata's own runs at Osaka U. have all produced 
more heat from heavy water electrolyte than light water electrolyte, plus 
helium-3 and helium-4.

A paper about the cathode analysis it will be published in the September 
issue of the ANS journal Fusion Science and Technology. This was formerly 
called Fusion Technology. I have heard that the new editor says she will 
reject all cold fusion papers from now on. Perhaps this one was accepted 
before the deadline.

The used cathode was sent out for analysis, first to Pacific Northwest Labs 
(PNL), which sectioned the electrode, drilled a hole sampled the gas, and 
found tritium. It was then sent to McMaster University where Prof. Brian 
Clarke found much more helium-3 than anyone expected. Indeed, he found so 
much his detector had to be cleaned and refitted. Clarke determined the 
helium-3 was the decay product of tritium.

Flatow asked Brian Oliver of PNL whether the tritium and helium-3 are 
evidence that cold fusion is real. Oliver said, no, it isn't. McKubre 
commented:

"I think we are into the semantic problem again. The reviewer of the paper 
probably put it best. He said, 'the observed creation of tritium seems 
indisputable.' That is, the experiment demonstrates indisputably the 
creation of tritium. Tritium can only be produced in a nuclear reaction. So 
the paper demonstrates unambiguously that a nuclear reaction occurred. Now, 
are we going to call that reaction cold fusion or fusion? I don't want to 
get drawn into that debate, and I think Brian Oliver is probably 
sidestepping that debate too, because of the hostility that is leveled at 
the cold fusion community. A nuclear reaction occurred, in experiments very 
similar to those that have been traditionally performed in the cold fusion 
community. A nuclear product was yielded in what was, essentially, an 
electrochemical experiment. This is interesting."

Flatow said that critics will claim the tritium was contamination. McKubre 
gave three reasons why this is unlikely:

1. Contamination could only have occurred at PNL. There was no significant 
tritium in the cell before the experiment. PNL has a world class reputation 
for handling tritium, which is why SRI selected them. The tritium was found 
on the inside of a DS-cathode that had been welded shut before it was sent 
to PNL.

2. The amount of tritium was very large: between 2 and 5 x 10E15 tritium 
atoms, "a significant amount, highly unlikely to be . . . contamination." 
Brian Clarke and the people at SRI conclude that such contamination could 
not have occurred.

3. The profile of the helium-3 left behind in the wall of the electrode 
shows that the tritium was created inside the closed cathode. The helium 
concentration is highest on the inside wall, it decreases under the surface 
toward the outside. If the helium was contamination from the outside, the 
opposite pattern would be seen. Furthermore, Brian Clarke did an analysis 
comparing the amount of tritium to the amount of helium-3. Based on the 
decay rate of tritium, he estimated with "reasonable precision" that the 
tritium was "born inside the electrode" during electrolysis at SRI.

McKubre summarizes: "we know when it occurred; it wasn't there before. . . 
. It was on the inside; it didn't come in from the outside. We can rule out 
quite effectively any possibility of contamination at PNL."

Flatow pointed out that tritium is dangerous, or what he called a 
"controlled subject." He asked whether the government might put a stop to 
the experiments for this reason. McKubre said it is safe because the DoE 
does not believe the results.

Flatow: "If they were to say you have to stop this, wouldn't that be a 
tacit admission that cold fusion works? . . ."

McKubre: "Yeah. I am not sure which I would prefer, actually."

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 12:49:49 2001
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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:51:50 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010831141009.03c3f008 pop.mindspring.com>
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Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 
> This web site:
> 
> http://www.sciencefriday.com/
> 
> . . . lists McKubre for today, August 31. There may be a way to hear the
> broadcast on this site. I have not figured it out yet.
> 
> The broadcast in progress can be heard here:
> 
> http://www.sciencefriday.com/streaming.html
> 
> - Jed

I caught it.  I think this one will be difficult to debunk. 
Prof. Brian Clark measured so much He3 that it overloaded his
mass spectrometer.  It resulted from decaying tritium (2 to 5 x
10^15 atoms) whose concentration decreased as you moved from the
inside of the Pd outward; so, this was not contamination.  Also,
the decay ratios indicated that the Tritium was created in the Pd
while the cathode was at SRI.

It seems that Clark and McKubre concurred that:  "A nuclear
reaction occurred . . . in an electrochemical experiment."

When asked if the DOE told him to stop making Tritium would it
mean their tacit acknowledgement of LENR.  He replied that he
preferred they would wait a bit while he continued his
experiments.

Thanks for the heads up, Jed!

Terry

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I wrote:

>Flatow pointed out that tritium is dangerous, or what he called a 
>"controlled subject."

Meant substance. My mistake; a Freudian slip.

- Jed

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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:58:19 -0400
From: Terry Blanton <commengr bellsouth.net>
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Jed Rothwell wrote:
> 
> Michael McKubre of SRI was interviewed for 15 minutes by Ira Flatow on NPR
> Science Friday, on August 31, 2001. Here are some of the main points, from
> a tape recording with a few notes added by me.


I think you should post this to Tom on sci.physics.fusion.  ;-)

Terry, aka Robert Bellamy

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 13:29:06 2001
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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:25:41 -0500
To: vortex-l eskimo.com
From: "Kyle R. Mcallister" <stk sunherald.infi.net>
Subject: Wimshurst for sale
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Hi all,

Money is a bit tight right now and I need it more than my Wimshurst 
machine. So I am putting it up for sale here. I will describe it a bit:

It is on a wooden base, with PVC supports for the disks and lower drive 
pulleys, and PVC standoffs for the charge collectors. The charge collectors 
are copper tubes and what appear to be brass combs. The neutralizers are 
copper tubes as well, with brass wire brushes. The disks themselves are 
coated glass, 17" diameter, 18 sectors apiece. It is hand cranked, and is 
very reliable in low humidity (take it inside and hair dry it for a while 
if humid). Living here in Mississippi, if it works here it should work 
anywhere. It will throw off 5-7cm sparks without Leyden jars, between the 
terminals. The terminals are a bit funny looking, the collectors themselves 
don't have terminals on them, just brass spheres. I use external terminals, 
which seem to work fine. It is a nice machine, not perfect, but in good 
condition.

I am going to throw in a few extra things that should make it easier to 
operate (and if you want, to improve). A 12-24V DC motor which I have found 
can turn the disks quite well, and a ~40-50kV multiplier and a simple power 
supply to drive that. It starts very reliably when this is connected, no 
matter the humidity. Email me privately and we can discuss it further if 
anyone is interested, and if you want it, make offers. I'm not talking a 
fortune for it, just a few hundred. Negotiable.

--Kyle

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 13:34:33 2001
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: What's New for Aug 31, 2001
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 16:19:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "What's New" <whatsnew aps.org>
To: aki ix.netcom.com

WHAT'S NEW   Robert L. Park   Friday, 31 Aug 01   Washington, DC

1. SENATOR WHO FROM WHERE?  WHAT'S NEW HEARS FROM ITS READERS.
Even in August!  We are truly grateful to those who point out the
goofs we make in WN, and try to acknowledge each e-mail.  Last
week, however, we were overwhelmed by hundreds of complaints
after we relocated Sen. Jesse Helms to South Carolina.  WN has
mentioned the Senator no fewer than 27 times over the years, but 
we always put him in North Dakota.  Sigh!  If we didn't make a
goof now and then, how would we know if anyone reads this stuff?

2. ASTROLOGY: THE STARS WERE FAVORABLY ALIGNED FOR ACCREDITATION.
In June, after being accredited by the state of Washington,
Kepler College in Seattle boasted that it was the only degree
granting institution in recent centuries to offer a course of
study in astrology (WN 15 Jun 01).  No longer.  The Institute of
Astrology in Scottsdale, Arizona, has just won accreditation from
the federally recognized Accrediting Commission of Career Schools
and Colleges of Technology.  According to the Associated Press,
this allows the Astrological Institute to seek approval from the  
Department of Education for its students to get federal grants
and loans. Could this be true?  For guidance, I turned to today's
horoscope for Capricorn in the Washington Post: "You don't have
the complete story.  Deception involved."  Just as I thought.

3. VOODOO ECONOMICS: CONGRESS RETURNS TO FIGHT OVER WHAT'S LEFT. 
They'll be back on Tuesday.  So much for finding an empty parking
slot in a Washington parking garage.  So much also for finding
money for new programs without dipping into Social Security as
the surplus vanishes (WN 17 Aug 01).  Is a disappearing surplus
bad news?  It's "incredibly positive news," declared President
Bush last week at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, "a fiscal
straight jacket for Congress."  As Jim Nussle (R-IA), House
Budget Committee chair, explained, spending the surplus is part
of a shrewd GOP plan to cut money available to "the big
spenders."   Well, they've done a great job of it.

4. SCIENCE BUDGET: WHAT WILL THE EFFECT BE ON SCIENCE?  The House
and Senate have different versions of the appropriations bills
that fund DOE, NSF, and NASA.  The Senate bill is considerably
more generous to DOE, while the House bill is kinder to NSF. 
Differences will be resolved in Conference.  But with no surplus,
and with both Democrats and Republicans pushing pet projects,
conferees will be under enormous pressure to trim science. 

5. ACUPUNCTURE: BRITISH STUDY FINDS IT'S SAFE.  A Reuters story
yesterday says a British study found acupuncture to be safe when
performed by skilled people, but does it work?  The story only
said acupuncture has been shown to relieve nausea.  But were
there any side effects?  You guessed it: the most common side
effect was nausea.  WN had the same reaction to the story.

THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's
and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.)

From vortex-l-request eskimo.com  Fri Aug 31 16:15:38 2001
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Subject: Re: Superimposed fields comments to Horace
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In a message dated 8/31/01 12:28:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cjford1 yahoo.com writes:


> Force does not create a loss of smithy.  The attractive force is shared by 
> all of the masses involved.
> 
> 

Get out a book on General Realitivity

Mass produces gravity

A changing momentun also produces gravity

field = G/ccr (dp/dt)

is Einsteins formula, not minr.  I have, however, derived it independently.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 8/31/01 12:28:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
<BR>cjford1 yahoo.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Force does not create a loss of smithy. &nbsp;The attractive force is shared by 
<BR>all of the masses involved.
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>Get out a book on General Realitivity
<BR>
<BR>Mass produces gravity
<BR>
<BR>A changing momentun also produces gravity
<BR>
<BR>field = G/ccr (dp/dt)
<BR>
<BR>is Einsteins formula, not minr. &nbsp;I have, however, derived it independently.</FONT></HTML>

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In a message dated 8/31/01 6:08:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
hamdix verisoft.com.tr writes:


> - Accelerated or steady expansion of the universe could be the cause of the 
> Cosmological constant, which may be similar to mirrors getting apart in 
> mirror box experiment.
> 
Very good again hamdix.  I have done this math also.

   A photon has no rest mass therefore the source of

         the gravitation mass of a photon cannot be mass.  The source

         of the gravitational mass of a photon will now be

         demonstrated.  Hubbles' constant expresses the expansion

         space in units of 1/time.  Ordinarily, the effects resulting

         for the Hubble expansion are quite tiny.  At great distances

         and at high velocities significant effects do, however, take

         place. As a photon travels through space at the high

         velocity of light it red shifts.  This red shift may be

         considered to be the result of an applied force.  This force

         is produced by the acceleration given in equation #18.


         Acceleration = Hc                                 Eq #18

                                        H = Hubble's constant, given
                                            in units of (1/sec)
                                        c = light speed


         To demonstrate the gravitational relationships of a photon

         the principle of the conservation of momentum will be

         employed.  According to this principle exploding bodies

         conserve there center of gravitational mass.  Mass M ejects

         a photon while over the pivot I. (Ref fig #2)  The

         gravitational center of mass must remain balanced over the

         pivot point I.   Mass M is propelled to the left velocity at

         v  and the photon travels to the right at velocity c.  The          
          1

         product of the velocity and time is the displacement S.


             <---S1--> <---------S2---------->

            Mass                           photon
           ----------------------------------------          
                      I
                                                                          11
            Photon and matter on a balance beam


         Setting the products of the displacements S and the

         gravitational masses Mg equal yields equation #19.



         Mg(1) S(1)  = Mg(2) S(2)                          Eq #19           
           

         GMS /rr(1)  = (G/cc) (force) S /r(2)            
              

         GMS /rr(1)  = (G/cc) dp/dt S /r(2)           
          

         GM(v(1) t) = (G/cc) dp/dt (ct)r           Eq #20             
             

         Substituting, dp/dt = Ma = MHc = (E/cc)Hc = EH/c    Eq #21

         G(Mv(1))t = (G/cc)(E/c)Hctr             
             

         Setting momentums equal, p(1)  = p(2)  = Mv(1)  = E/c                
                   
                                

         Gp(1) t = (G/cc)p(2) Hctr           
         

         c = Hr                                             Eq #22
         




         The result, equation #22, shows the gravitational mass of a

         photon is produced by the force it experiences as it

         accelerates through Hubble's constant.  The result is true

         only under the condition where the speed of light is equal

         to the product of Hubble's constant and the radius of the

         universe.  The gravitational radius of the photon is the

         radius of the universe.  These qualifications are

         essentially consistent with the known cosmological

         constants.





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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 8/31/01 6:08:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
<BR>hamdix verisoft.com.tr writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">- Accelerated or steady expansion of the universe could be the cause of the 
<BR>Cosmological constant, which may be similar to mirrors getting apart in 
<BR>mirror box experiment.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Very good again hamdix. &nbsp;I have done this math also.
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;A photon has no rest mass therefore the source of
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the gravitation mass of a photon cannot be mass. &nbsp;The source
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;of the gravitational mass of a photon will now be
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;demonstrated. &nbsp;Hubbles' constant expresses the expansion
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;space in units of 1/time. &nbsp;Ordinarily, the effects resulting
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for the Hubble expansion are quite tiny. &nbsp;At great distances
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and at high velocities significant effects do, however, take
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;place. As a photon travels through space at the high
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;velocity of light it red shifts. &nbsp;This red shift may be
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;considered to be the result of an applied force. &nbsp;This force
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;is produced by the acceleration given in equation #18.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Acceleration = Hc &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
p;&nbsp;Eq #18
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;H = Hubble's con
stant, given
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
p;&nbsp;in units of (1/sec)
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;c = light speed
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;To demonstrate the gravitational relationships of a photon
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;the principle of the conservation of momentum will be
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;employed. &nbsp;According to this principle exploding bodies
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;conserve there center of gravitational mass. &nbsp;Mass M ejects
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a photon while over the pivot I. (Ref fig #2) &nbsp;The
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;gravitational center of mass must remain balanced over the
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;pivot point I. &nbsp;&nbsp;Mass M is propelled to the left velocity at
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;v &nbsp;and the photon travels to the right at velocity c. &nbsp;The &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;product of the velocity and time is the displacement S.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;---S1--&gt; &lt;---------S2----------&gt;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Mass &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;photon
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;---------------------------------------- &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;11
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Photon and matter on a balance beam
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Setting the products of the displacements S and the
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;gravitational masses Mg equal yields equation #19.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Mg(1) S(1) &nbsp;= Mg(2) S(2) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #19 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nb
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;GMS /rr(1) &nbsp;= (G/cc) (force) S /r(2) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;GMS /rr(1) &nbsp;= (G/cc) dp/dt S /r(2) &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;GM(v(1) t) = (G/cc) dp/dt (ct)r &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #20 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Substituting, dp/dt = Ma = MHc = (E/cc)Hc = EH/c &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #21
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;G(Mv(1))t = (G/cc)(E/c)Hctr &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Setting momentums equal, p(1) &nbsp;= p(2) &nbsp;= Mv(1) &nbsp;= E/c &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Gp(1) t = (G/cc)p(2) Hctr &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;c = Hr &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Eq #22
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The result, equation #22, shows the gravitational mass of a
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;photon is produced by the force it experiences as it
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;accelerates through Hubble's constant. &nbsp;The result is true
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;only under the condition where the speed of light is equal
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to the product of Hubble's constant and the radius of the
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;universe. &nbsp;The gravitational radius of the photon is the
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;radius of the universe. &nbsp;These qualifications are
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;essentially consistent with the known cosmological
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;constants.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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From: FZNIDARSIC aol.com
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In a message dated 8/31/01 12:47:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
hamdix verisoft.com.tr writes:


> 
> Even the gravitational field of a mass at rest could be explain by 
> continual energy flow change inside the matter due it microscopic dynamic.
> 
> According the mirror box, gravitational field produced by photons should be 
> anisotropic, and its appears logical to me. Assuming the matter is 
> equivalent randomly oriented large number of boxes, isotropy of natural 
> gravity can be obtained by the homogen distribution of box orientations.
> 
> 
very good hamdix.  You have a lot of instte.  I belive that the out word 
press of the energy trying to escape from matter produces the gravitational 
field.  In the accepted theroy the wavefunction travels at velocity V.  I 
believe that that the wavefunction is a field and like all fields it must 
trave at velocity C.  Then the queation is what configns it.  I say that it 
is confined by a restraing force.  This is my unique idea.  I can derive 
newtons formula of gravity from this analysis.  I also conclude that the 
reflected wave doppler shifts when reflecting off of the inner surface.  The 
sum of the orginal wave and its doppler shifted relfection produces a beat 
note.  The wavelength of beat is equals the DeBrogle wavelength of matter.  
This is also a new result. I was publised by Hal Fox last fall.   The energy 
blue shifts when reflecting off of the wall.  If you do the math right you 
will see that the blue shift leads to a realtivistic mass increase.  This is 
a lot of stuff.  Look at the near field 1/r gravitational components.  
Spinning them would produce a Tampere like result.

Attached is the realtivistic calc.  It texts better in the DOS editor.




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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 8/31/01 12:47:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
<BR>hamdix verisoft.com.tr writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<BR>Even the gravitational field of a mass at rest could be explain by 
<BR>continual energy flow change inside the matter due it microscopic dynamic.
<BR>
<BR>According the mirror box, gravitational field produced by photons should be 
<BR>anisotropic, and its appears logical to me. Assuming the matter is 
<BR>equivalent randomly oriented large number of boxes, isotropy of natural 
<BR>gravity can be obtained by the homogen distribution of box orientations.
<BR>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">very good hamdix. &nbsp;You have a lot of instte. &nbsp;I belive that the out word 
<BR>press of the energy trying to escape from matter produces the gravitational 
<BR>field. &nbsp;In the accepted theroy the wavefunction travels at velocity V. &nbsp;I 
<BR>believe that that the wavefunction is a field and like all fields it must 
<BR>trave at velocity C. &nbsp;Then the queation is what configns it. &nbsp;I say that it 
<BR>is confined by a restraing force. &nbsp;This is my unique idea. &nbsp;I can derive 
<BR>newtons formula of gravity from this analysis. &nbsp;I also conclude that the 
<BR>reflected wave doppler shifts when reflecting off of the inner surface. &nbsp;The 
<BR>sum of the orginal wave and its doppler shifted relfection produces a beat 
<BR>note. &nbsp;The wavelength of beat is equals the DeBrogle wavelength of matter. &nbsp;
<BR>This is also a new result. I was publised by Hal Fox last fall. &nbsp;&nbsp;The energy 
<BR>blue shifts when reflecting off of the wall. &nbsp;If you do the math right you 
<BR>will see that the blue shift leads to a realtivistic mass increase. &nbsp;This is 
<BR>a lot of stuff. &nbsp;Look at the near field 1/r gravitational components. &nbsp;
<BR>Spinning them would produce a Tampere like result.
<BR>
<BR>Attached is the realtivistic calc. &nbsp;It texts better in the DOS editor.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

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                                 6/97



                  THE SOURCE OF INERTIAL AND GRAVITATIONAL MASS            =20=
=20

                                   by


                            Frank Znidarsic PE
                           =20

                                                                       2



         ABSTRACT


        =20
              Present quantum theory is very exact in its

         representation of quantum interactions.  This theory

         represents matter as a series of superimposed

         quantum-mechanical matter waves.  These matter waves exist

         in vector space.  It is not easy to reconcile gravity with

         the current model of matter.  All waves (matter, real, and

         probability) should propagate into space.  It author will be

         shown that the energy of matter is localized by forces.  The

         addition of forces to existing models of matter results in a

         formulation that requires no infinities, probability waves,

         or special reconciliation with gravity.  The fundamental

         postulate of the modified model requires the production of a

         gravitational field.  Matter's dynamic deBroglie wavelength

         also falls out as a natural consequence of the model.


                                                                       3



         INTRODUCTION

              Present theory identifies matter as a source of

         gravitational and inertial mass.  Einstein's General Theory

         of Relativity states that an applied force also produces a

         gravitational field.  Energy has no rest mass.  According to

         existing theory energy does, however, have an effective

         gravitational mass.  Present theory states that there are

         three sources of gravity.  These sources are:



         1.   Rest Energy (Matter)

         2.   Kinetic energy (Photons and Moving Matter)

         3.   Force



         It will be shown that there is only one source of mass.

         This one source is an applied force.  All inertial and

         gravitational mass is a direct result of an applied force.



         INERTIAL MASS

              An analysis will now be done that will describe

         inertial mass in terms of an applied force.  Consider energy

         trapped in a perfectly reflecting containment. (see fig. #1)

          ________________
          |        \     |
          |       P1 \   |
          |            \ |
         A|             /|B             X =20
          |        P2 /  |
          |         /    |
          |______________|
          |<---- L------>|<----- X ----->

       Matter wave in a box


         This energy in a containment model is a simplistic

         representation of matter.  In this analysis no

         distinction will be made between baryonic, leptonic, and

         electromagnetic waves. =20


                                                                  4
                                                            =20

         The wavelength of the energy represents the Compton

         Compton wavelength of matter.  The containment represents the

         surface of matter. This analysis considers only the momentum

         of the energy.  The containment will be considered to be at

         rest.  The energy is ejected from wall "A" of the

         containment, its momentum is p(1).  The energy now travels to     =20=
                                =20
                                      =20
         wall "B".  It hits wall B and immediately bounces off.  Its

         momentum is p(2) .  The energy now travels back to wall "A",      =20=
              =20
                     =20
         immediately bounces off, its momentum is again p(1).  This        =20=
                                               =20
                                                        =20
         process repeats continuously.  If the energy in the

         containment is evenly distributed throughout the containment,=20

         the momentum carried by this energy will be distributed evenly

         between the forward and backward traveling components.  The total

         momentum of this system is given in equation #1.



         p(t)  =3D(p(1)/2 - p(2)/2)                                 Eq #1  =20=
      =20
         =20

         The momentum of a flow of energy is given by equation #2



         p =3D E/c                                           Eq #2

                            E =3D energy

                            c =3D light speed

                            p =3D momentum



         Substituting Eq. #2 into Eq. #1 yields Eq. #3.



                                                                       5



         p(t)  =3D [E(1)/2c - E(2)/2c]         Eq. #3         =20
         =20



         Given the containment is at rest.  The amount of energy in

         the containment remains fixed, the quantity of energy

         traveling in the forward direction equals the quantity of

         energy traveling in the reverse direction.  This is shown in

         equation #4.



         E(1)  =3D E(2)                                          Eq #4     =20=
   =20
         =20



         Substituting Eq. #4 into Eq. #3 yields Eq #5.



         p(t)  =3D (E/2c)(1 - 1)                               Eq #5       =20=
 =20
         =20



         Equation #5 is the total momentum of the system at rest.  If

         an external force is applied to the system its velocity will

         change.  The forward and the reverse components of the

         energy will then doppler shift after bouncing off of the

         moving containment walls. The momentun of a an energy flow varies

         directly with its frequency.  Given that the number of "photons"

         in containment is conserved, the energy of the reflected "photons"=20

         varies directly with their frequency.  This is demonstrated

          by equation #6.



         E(2)  =3D E(1) [f(f) /f(i)]                                   Eq. #=
6         =20
        =20



         Substituting Eq. #6 into Eq #5. yields eq. #7.


                                                                          6



         p(t)  =3D (E/2c)[(f(f)/f(i)) - (f(f)/f(i))]                      Eq=
 #7         =20
      =20



         Equation #7 is the momentum of the system after all of its

         energy bounces once off of the containment walls. Equation

         #7 shows a net flow of energy in one direction.  Equation #7

         is the momentum of a moving system.  The reader may desire

         to analyze the system after successive bounces of its

         energy.  This analysis is quite involved and unnecessary.

         Momentum is always conserved.  Given that no external force

         is applied to the system after the first bounce of its

         energy, its momentum will remain constant.



         Relativistic doppler shift is given by equation #8.
                               .5
         (f(f)/f(i)) =3D (1-vv/cc) /(1 +- v/c),                   Eq #8    =20=
     =20
         =20

                                    v =3D velocity with respect
                                        to the observer
                                    c =3D light speed
                           f((f)/f(i) =3D frequency ratio                  =20=
             =20
                                =20
                         + or - depends on the direction of motion

         Substituting equation #8 into equation #7 yields equation #9


                  -        .5                  .5 _                        =20=
=20
           =3D  E  | (1-vv/cc)          (1-vv/cc)    |
             --- |  -----------   -  ----------    |    Eq #9              =20=
                 =20
              2c | (1-v/c)            (1+v/c)      |
                  -                               _


                                                                           =20=
                                      _              .5                    =20=
.5_ =20
          =3D   E |(1+v/c)(1-vv/cc)       (1-v/c)(1-vv/cc)  |
            --- | ----------------  -  -----------------  |
             2c |(1+v/c)(1-v/c)         (1-v/c)(1+v/c)    |
                 -                                       -


                 -         .5             -
             E  | (1-vv/cc)  (1+v/c-1+v/c) |
             -- |  ----------------------- |
             2C |     (1-vv/cc)            |
                 -                        -=20



                     ___ Ev________
                                .5
                     cc(1-vv/cc)
                    =20



                                                                          7



         Substituting mass for energy, M =3D E/cc


          =3D        ___Mv______
                            .5
                   (1-vv/cc)                           Eq #10
       =20
       =20
        The result, equation #10 is the relativistic momentum of

         moving matter.   This first analysis graphically

         demonstrates that inertial mass is produced by a containment

         force at the surface of matter.  A fundamental change in the

         frame of reference is produced by the force of containment.

         This containment force converts energy, which can only

         travel at light speed, into mass, which can travel at any

         speed but light speed.
                                1,2,3


          GRAVITATIONAL MASS



              Einstein's principle of equivalence states that

         gravitational and inertial mass are the same  .
                                                      4
         Gravitational mass then must be generated by the same

         mechanism that produces inertial mass.  The reflection of

         the energy off of the walls of the containment must also

         generate the gravitational mass of the energy in the box.

         It is well known that the gravitational field can generate a

         force.  This the gravitational force is given by equation

         #11.



         The force of gravity =3D mg                 Eq #11



                                                                          8



         It is less well known that the application of a force also

         induces a gravitation field.  The application of a force

         must induce gravity in order to conserve a symmetrical

         relationship between the forces.  For example, a changing

         magnetic field will induce an electrical field and

         conversely a changing electrical field will induce a

         magnetic field.   Likewise the application of a force also        =20=
              =20
                       5

        induces a gravitational field.  The application of a force

         must also produce gravity in order to conserve momentum.  If

         mass is pushed into the established field of other mass time

         is required for the gravitational field of pushed matter to

         reach the other mass.  To conserve momentum during this

         interval an induced gravitational field is required. The

         relationship between the induced gravitational field and the

         force of acceleration as demonstrated by General Relativity

           is given by equation #12.         6



         Eg =3D (G/(ccr))(dp/dt)                      Eq #12

                             G =3D the grav constant
                             r =3D the grav radius
                          dp/dt =3D Force
                          Eg =3D The gravitational field in Newtons/kg


         Each time the energy strikes the wall of the containment (or

         the surface of matter) it produces a gravitation field

         according to equation #12.  An exact mathematical analysis

         of the gravitational field produced by the photon in the box

         will now be undertaken.

         Ref figure #1


                                                                          9



        =20
         L =3D The dimensions of the box
         p =3D momentum
         t =3D the time required for the photon to directly traverse the box=
 =3D L/c
         r =3D the distance to point X


         The far gravitational field at point X is the vector sum of

         the field produced by the impacts on walls A and B. This

         field is given by Equation #13.


         Field        =3D 1/r field from wall A - 1/r field from wall B    =20=
         =20
              (at X)

         Eq #13
                     =3D (G/(cc(r+L))) dp/dt  - (G/(ccr)) dp/dt

                     =3D -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(L/(rr+rL))

         Taking the limit to obtain the far field yields Eq 14 .           =20=
                                                  7

         lim -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(k/(rr+rL)) =3D -(G/cc)(dp/dt)(L/rr)
         as r>>k                                            Eq #14


         The change in momentum in the simplistic box modelis given by Eq. #=
15.


      dp/dt =3D /\ p / /\ t =3D (2E/c)/(L/c) =3D 2E/L       Eq #15


         In order to remain consistent with the first argument only
         half of the energy will be considered to be impacting on
         wall "A" of the containment. The other half of the energy
         will be considered to impacting on wall "B" of the
         containment.  Substituting Eq #15 into Eq #14 and adding a
         factor of 1/2 is yields Equation #16.


         Field       =3D1/2(G/cc)(2E/L)(L/rr)        Eq 16             =20
             (at X)

         Substituting mass for energy yields Equation #17.

         Field       =3D -GM/rr                            Eq #17          =20=
  =20
              (at X)


         The result, equation #17, is Newton's formula of gravity .        =20=
                                                        8

         This second analysis clearly shows that gravitational mass

         is produced by the force of containment at the surface of

         matter.


                                                                          10



          PHOTONIC MASS



              A photon has no rest mass therefore the source of

         the gravitation mass of a photon cannot be mass.  The source

         of the gravitational mass of a photon will now be

         demonstrated.  Hubbles' constant expresses the expansion

         space in units of 1/time.  Ordinarily, the effects resulting

         for the Hubble expansion are quite tiny.  At great distances

         and at high velocities significant effects do, however, take

         place. As a photon travels through space at the high

         velocity of light it red shifts.  This red shift may be

         considered to be the result of an applied force.  This force

         is produced by the acceleration given in equation #18.


         Acceleration =3D Hc                                 Eq #18

                                        H =3D Hubble's constant, given
                                            in units of (1/sec)
                                        c =3D light speed


         To demonstrate the gravitational relationships of a photon

         the principle of the conservation of momentum will be

         employed.  According to this principle exploding bodies

         conserve there center of gravitational mass.  Mass M ejects

         a photon while over the pivot I. (Ref fig #2)  The

         gravitational center of mass must remain balanced over the

         pivot point I.   Mass M is propelled to the left velocity at

         v  and the photon travels to the right at velocity c.  The        =20=
=20
          1

         product of the velocity and time is the displacement S.


             <---S1--> <---------S2---------->

            Mass                           photon
           ----------------------------------------         =20
                      I
                                                                          11
            Photon and matter on a balance beam


         Setting the products of the displacements S and the

         gravitational masses Mg equal yields equation #19.



         Mg(1) S(1)  =3D Mg(2) S(2)                          Eq #19        =20=
 =20
          =20

         GMS /rr(1)  =3D (G/cc) (force) S /r(2)           =20
             =20

         GMS /rr(1)  =3D (G/cc) dp/dt S /r(2)          =20
         =20

         GM(v(1) t) =3D (G/cc) dp/dt (ct)r           Eq #20            =20
            =20

         Substituting, dp/dt =3D Ma =3D MHc =3D (E/cc)Hc =3D EH/c    Eq #21

         G(Mv(1))t =3D (G/cc)(E/c)Hctr            =20
            =20

         Setting momentums equal, p(1)  =3D p(2)  =3D Mv(1)  =3D E/c       =20=
                          =20
                               =20

         Gp(1) t =3D (G/cc)p(2) Hctr          =20
        =20

         c =3D Hr                                             Eq #22
        =20




         The result, equation #22, shows the gravitational mass of a

         photon is produced by the force it experiences as it

         accelerates through Hubble's constant.  The result is true

         only under the condition where the speed of light is equal

         to the product of Hubble's constant and the radius of the

         universe.  The gravitational radius of the photon is the

         radius of the universe.  These qualifications are

         essentially consistent with the known cosmological

         constants.



                                                                          12



        MATTERS DYNAMIC ATTRIBUTES

              A dynamic attribute of matter, its wavelength, also

         results from an applied force.  As stated, the original

         wavelength of the photon represents the Compton wavelength

         of matter. Equation #23 expresses the Compton wavelength.


           L(c)     =3D h/Mc                                   Eq #23      =20=
   =20
        =20



         Equation #24 gives the relationship between frequency f and

         wavelength L.



         f(c) =3D (f)(L)                                 Eq #24



         Substituting Eq #24 into Eq. #23 yields Eq #25 the Compton

         frequency of matter.



         f(c)  =3D Mcc/h                              Eq. #25         =20
         =20



         A doppler shifted component of the original frequency is

         produced by the reflection at matter's surface.  Classical

         doppler shift is given by Eq #26.



         f(2)  =3D f(1) (1 +- v/c)                            Eq #26       =20=
 =20
     =20



         A beat note is formed by the mixing of the doppler shifted

         and original components.  This beat note is the deBroglie

         wave of matter.



                                                                          13



         Equation #27 and Figure #3 express a function "F" involving the

         sum of two sin waves.



          F(L,t)| =3D amplitude orig. wave + amplitude reflected wave      =20=
        =20
                |
                | L held constant



         F(t) =3D sin(6.28 f(c) t + 3.14) +   sin[6.26 f(c) t(1 +- v/c)]   =20=
   Eq #27                      =20
                   =20



         Substituting Eq #25 into Eq #27 yields Eq #28.



         F(t) =3D sin[6.28 t(Mcc/h)+ 3.14] + sin[6.28 t(Mcc/h)(1 +- v/c)]  E=
q #28



         A minimum in the beat note envelope occurs when the

         component waves are opposed in phase.   At time zero the

         angles differ by 3.14 radians.  Time zero is a minimum in the

         beat note envelope.  A maximum in the beat envelope occurs

         when the component waves are aligned in phase.  The phases

         were set equal, in Equation #29, to determine the time at

         which the aligned phase "p" condition occurs.

                     p(1)   =3D  p(2)                          Eq #29      =20=
              =20
               =20



         6.28 tMcc/h + 3.14   =3D 6.28 tMcc/h  +-  6.28 tMcv/h        Eq #30



         ct =3D +- h/2Mv                                  Eq #31



          L(d)   =3D h/Mv                                  Eq #32          =20=
=20
          =20



         The result, Equation #32, is the deBroglie wavelength of

         matter               9


                                                                          14



        GRAVITATIONAL APPLICATIONS


                The movement of ordinary matter does not produce a

         net magnetic field.  The movement of charged matter does

         produce a net magnetic field.  Charged matter is produced by

         the separation of positive and negative charges.  The

         derivation used to develop Newton's formula of gravity (Eq

         #13) shows that matter may harbor near field positive and

         negative gravitational components.  A similar analysis with

         the strong nuclear force, in fact, demonstrates the known

         repulsive component of the nuclear force.  In

         superconductors the length of the wavefunction "L" is

         longer.  These longer wavefunctions produce near field

         components that are macroscopic in dimension.  As in the

         case with electrically charged matter, the rotation of these

         separate gravitational components should induce a

         strong gravitomagnetic field.  This gravitomagnetic field

         appears to have been detected by an experiment conducted at

         Tampere University.                            7



        NUCLEAR APPLICATIONS

              Low level nuclear reactions appear to have been

         discovered.  These low level nuclear reactions

         take place in systems containing condensed electrons.             =20=
                                               =20
                                                             10

         This author's model shows that the length of the

         wavefunction "L" increases in condensed systems.  This

         effect may "soften up the nucleus" and allow unexpected low

         level nuclear reactions to take place.



                                                                          15



        CONCLUSION



             It has been shown that the application of a force is the

         exclusive mechanism by which all inertial and gravitational

         mass is generated.   A reflection takes place at the

         surface of matter.  The force produced by this reflection

         induces the gravitational and the inertial mass associated

         with matter.  This concept is so simple that once it is seen

         it appears to be almost self evident.

              The gravitational mass of a photon was shown to be

         produced by the acceleration of a photon through Hubble's

         constant.  This analysis shows that there is a relationship

         between the speed of light, Hubbles's constant, and the

         radius of the universe.  Remarkably the model also yields, a

         factor unrelated to mass, matters dynamic wavelength.

                A profound, yet simple, model has been developed.

         This model demonstrates the mechanism though which all mass

         (gravitational and inertial) is generated.  The scope of the

         symmetrical relationship that exists between force and

         gravity has been exposed.  This author believes that this

         new understanding will lead to the development of

         gravitational technologies.                                    11


                                                                        =20
        =20
            NOTES

        =20
         1.  Jennison demonstrated the previously unestablished fact

             a trapped electromagnetic standing wave has rest mass

             and inertia.

        =20
             Jennison & Drinkwater Journal of Physics A, vol 10,

             pp.(167-179)   1977

             Jennison & Drinkwater Journal of Physics A, vol 13,

             pp.(2247-2250)  1980

             Jennison & Drinkwater Journal of Physics A, vol 16,

             pp.(3635-3638)  1983



         2.  Puthoff has shown that force produced by the reflection

             and adsorption of zero point energy at the surface of

             matter generates mass.  This author's model is an

             extension version of Puthoff's work.



             H.E. Puthoff, "Ground State Hydrogen as a

             Zero-Point-Fluctuation-Determined State"

             Physical Review D, vol 35, Number 3260, 1987



             H. E. Puthoff "GRAVITY AS A ZERO-POINT FLUCTUATION

             FORCE", Physical Review A, vol 39, Number 5, March 1989


                                                                          18


                                                                  =20

         3.  Gilbert N. Lewis demonstrated the relationship between

             external radiation pressure and momentum.

             Gilbert N. Lewis,  Philosophical Magazine, Nov. 1908



         4.  Einstein's principle of equivalence was experimentally

             confirmed by R.v. Eotos in the  1920's

             R.v. Eotvos, D. Pekar, and Feteke, Ann. d. Phys 1922

             Roll, Krotkov and Dicke followed up on the Eotvos

             experiment and confirmed the principle of equivalence
                                 11
             to an accuracy of 10   in the 1960's

             R.G. Roll, R. Krotkow & Dicke, Ann. of Physics 26, 1964





         5.  Danish physicist Han Christian Oersted first discovered

             that and electric current produces a magnetic field

             in 1820.  English scientist Michael Faraday demonstrated

             that a changing magnetic field produces an electric

             current in 1831.



         6.  A. Einstein, Ann. d. Physics 49, 1916.



                                                                          19



         7.  This author proposes that the rotation of the near field

             components resulted in gravitomagnetic effects observed

             at The University of Tampere in Finland.



             "A Possibility of Gravitational Force Shielding by Bulk

             YBa2Cu307-x",

             E. Podkletnov and R. Nieminen,  Physica C, vol 203

             (1992), pp 441-444.



         8.  Sir I. Newton, PHILOSOPHICA NATURALIS PRINCIPIA

             MATHEMATICA  (1687)



         9.  French aristocrat Louis de Broglie described the

             electrons wavelength in his Ph.D. thesis in 1924.

             De Broglie's hypothesis was verified by C. J. Davisson

             and L. H. Germer at Bell Labs.  The mechanism

             through which elementary particles can possess dynamic

             attributes, such as the de Broglie wavelength, has been

             a central mystery in the field of quantum physics.



         10. Preprint Miley George H., Nuclear Transmutations in

             Thin-Film Nickel Coatings Undergoing Electrolysis,

             Preprint The Fusion Studies Laboratory of the University

             of Illinois USA



         11. The discovery of the symmetrical relationship

             between the electric and magnetic fields by Oersted and

             Faraday is the basis of our current electro-technologies.


--part1_121.396bb25.28c176fe_boundary--

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At 3:44 PM 8/31/1, Jed Rothwell wrote:
[snip]
>Flatow pointed out that tritium is dangerous, or what he called a
>"controlled subject." He asked whether the government might put a stop to
>the experiments for this reason. McKubre said it is safe because the DoE
>does not believe the results.
>
>Flatow: "If they were to say you have to stop this, wouldn't that be a
>tacit admission that cold fusion works? . . ."
>
>McKubre: "Yeah. I am not sure which I would prefer, actually."


Well there you have it folks!  If there is a rich philanthropist handy who
wants to throw some money at the sociology of science - then sell kits that
demonstrate the low voltage electrolytic manufacture of tritium.  It is
unfortunate the cathodes will likely be expensive, but making a profit is
not the point.  Counting the samples may not be feasible on site, but a
mail-in sample counting service using counting vials and flourescent
solution would be fairly cheap.  To eliminate the possibility of fraud the
experimenters could be supplied duplicate cathodes, thus both a control and
live cathode, and the counting service would have no way of knowing how
each was treated experimentally.  Of course the ultimate experiment would
have the goal of analyzing the sociological effect of extreme
approach-avoidance stimuli on governmental regulatory groups.  8^)

Regards,

Horace Heffner