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From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 1 01:27:08 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id BAA01794; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 01:26:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 01:26:12 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c20e3f$07717600$271dfea9 z6s9t5> From: "Doug Marett" To: References: Subject: Re: Reich's electroscopic anomaly Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 12:18:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"C97LR2.0.tR.a2FIz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47782 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > If the enclosures are sealed, why would metal be better than wood? A good point. Perhaps I didn't mention - the enclosures were open on one side so that a reading could be taken from the meter. In another experiment that I performed, I found that a metal mesh around the counter was also sufficient to block out about 80% of the ions, whether grounded or not. Thus, even with partial airflow through the mesh, metal is quite good at blocking ion mobility. > > Although Reich considered the possibility that the effect was due to air > > ions, he concluded that it was not, since he found that a fan did not > > affect the rate of discharge of his electroscope. > > Huh? Why would he think that a fan would have any effect? (Analogy: the > conductivity of water doesn't change just because the water is flowing.) I would explain it by the fact that large ions are often associated with particles in the air, and as such are more likely to collide with the electroscope or ion counter if they are blown around, kind of like billiard balls. Interestingly, (and I have tried this) if you put charged H.V. plates on either side of the ion counter, the ion level detected drops to virtually zero. This is because the ions are all attracted to either the positive or negative plate and thus are completely screened from the counter. > Great test! > > One last observation: At sea level the air ions will be FAR lower than in > mountainous country. Background radiation is the issue. If a geiger > counter is clicking like mad from cosmic rays, then the whole environment > is "clicking" too ( the air is being ionized.) At sea level, a geiger > counter clicks very slowly, but just a few thousand feet of elevation > makes a big difference. > > The traditional explanation for electroscope-discharge is that cosmic rays > ionize the surrounding air. But if the weather affects the ion count, and > if the natural radiation is quite low at sea level, then the > electroscope-discharge effect would be caused more by weather-ions at > locations which aren't up in the mountains. That makes sense. Thanks for the compliment! Doug Marett M.Sc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 1 07:35:52 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA32411; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:34:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:34:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3D494742.6090302 rtpatlanta.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 10:35:46 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: More on Boeing's AG Experiments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gw5UP.0.Lw7.6SKIz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47783 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Of course they intend to weaponize: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28473 Anti-gravity project to mean free energy? Secret experiments at Boeing could revolutionize flight, electricity, defense Posted: July 31, 2002 11:29 p.m. Eastern © 2002 WorldNetDaily.com Secret anti-gravity experiments that could revolutionize the conventional aerospace industry and lead to "free energy" are underway in Seattle, according to Jane's Defense Weekly. Boeing , the world's largest aircraft manufacturer, is said to acknowledge work on projects that could overturn a century of propulsion technology if the science underpinning them can be engineered into hardware. A briefing document obtained by Jane's sets out what Boeing believes to be at stake. "If gravity modification is real," the brief says, "it will alter the entire aerospace business." The project at Boeing's Phantom Works advanced research and development facility is now trying to solicit the services of a Russian scientist who claims to have developed anti-gravity devices in Russia and Finland. The effort to work with that scientist, Dr. Evgeny Podkletnov, has its own code name of "GRASP," for Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion, the report says. GRASP's objective is to explore propellentless propulsion, determine the validity of Podkletnov's work and "examine possible uses for such a technology." Boeing says such uses could include space-launch systems, artificial gravity on spacecraft, aircraft propulsion and electricity generation without fuel - so-called "free energy." Additionally, there's a military potential as Podkletnov's work could be engineered into a stunning new weapon, capable of vaporizing objects moving at high speed. The GRASP paper focuses on Podkletnov's claims that his experiments using a device called an "impulse gravity generator" are capable of producing a beam of gravity-like energy that can exert an instantaneous force of 1,000-G on any object. Podkletnov maintains a Russian lab has already demonstrated the 4-inch-wide beam's ability to repel objects a kilometer away, with negligible power loss at distances of up to 200 kilometers. Observers say such a device could be adapted for use as an anti-satellite weapon or ballistic-missile shield. Podkletnov says any object placed above his rapidly spinning superconducting apparatus lost up to two percent of its weight. Although Podkletnov was vilified by traditionalists who claimed gravity-shielding was impossible under the known laws of physics, NASA attempted to replicate his work in the mid-1990s. The attempt failed, reports Jane's, as the space agency lacked Podkletnov's unique formula. However, NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama is slated to conduct a second round of experiments using an apparatus built to Podkletnov's specifications. Boeing recently approached Podkletnov directly, but promptly fell victim to Russian technology transfer controls, as Moscow tries to stem the exodus of Russian high-tech to the West. Boeing reportedly is not the only company interested in Podkletnov, since Lockheed Martin and BAE Systems have also contacted the scientist "and have some activity in this area." Securing his cooperation may prove tricky, as Jane's reports Podkletnov is very anti-military, and will only provide assistance if the research is carried out in the "white world" of open development. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 1 08:03:03 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA09118; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:56:53 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 07:56:53 -0700 Subject: ELF of Fran De Aquino (OT?) To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:56:36 +0400 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"kwaAn.0.OE2.qmKIz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47784 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Fran De Aquino has updated his new paper "Behavior of Electric Current Subjected to ELF Electromagnetic Radiation" where he "calculated" that under ELF of 1uHz, electric current inside conductors would not flow. This idea is very inspiring in the light of UFO encounters reported me on the first hand. But I think a difficulty arose here as one cycle of u1Hz take more than one week. So one expect the effect would not be obtained instantly. On the other had if ELF EM radiation have an effect on gravity, slowly rotating celestial objects having magnetic poles or non neutral, would be good source of ELF EM as their huge size allow to ELF radiation be coupled and their rotating speed would be in range of ELF. With these arguments, galaxies rotation speed anomalies and PIONEER-11 slowdown would be attributed to Aquino theory. Even one can consider strong enough ELF radiation produced in astronomical scale would lead to catastrophical events, WOW! At least, it would be not incorrect to think celestial objects would be source of ELF. http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0207100 Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 1 15:42:00 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA18866; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:40:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:40:34 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: ELF of Fran De Aquino (OT?) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 08:39:59 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA18825 Resent-Message-ID: <"0DhdB.0.ic4.YZRIz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47785 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hamdix verisoft.com.tr's message of Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:56:36 +0400: Hi, [snip] > >Hi, > >Fran De Aquino has updated his new paper "Behavior of Electric Current >Subjected to ELF Electromagnetic Radiation" where he "calculated" that >under ELF of 1uHz, electric current inside conductors would not flow. DC is less than 1 uHz, and it flows through conductors just fine. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 1 19:18:14 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA08009; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:17:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:17:28 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: ELF of Fran De Aquino (OT?) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 22:31:23 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"k7Gno2.0.1z1.tkUIz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47786 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi. This whole idea about microhertz signals and resonance seems strange to me. It would take about 3 days for a 1/4 cycle to occur, presumably the experiment would need to run over the course of weeks to see a resonance. Does Fran comment on this anywhere in his writings? I've read a few papers of his and find them a bit opaque. By the way, what the heck is this guy using for a driver??? A power supply with a clock? (smile) K. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 2 02:47:46 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id CAA12765; Fri, 2 Aug 2002 02:47:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 02:47:05 -0700 Subject: Re: ELF of Fran De Aquino (OT?) To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:46:53 +0400 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"6cNR32.0.M73.OKbIz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47787 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin, I am certainly not advocating Aquino theory and it appears to me to technically impossible to create measurable ELF EM fields with proposed setups, but you are wrong here. > DC is less than 1 uHz, and it flows through conductors just fine. DC classically, does not produce EM waves and induction, but ELF does with a suitable configuration. So you cant falsify Aquino's hypothesis with this example. Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > In reply to hamdix verisoft.com.tr's message of Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:56:36 +0400: > Hi, > [snip] > > > > >Hi, > > > >Fran De Aquino has updated his new paper "Behavior of Electric Current > >Subjected to ELF Electromagnetic Radiation" where he "calculated" that > >under ELF of 1uHz, electric current inside conductors would not flow. > > DC is less than 1 uHz, and it flows through conductors just fine. > > [snip] > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 2 14:13:49 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA13818; Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:12:49 -0700 Message-ID: <3D4AF5EF.AA38890F ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:13:19 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Aug 02, 2002] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RKR-P1.0.gN3.HNlIz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47788 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: What's New for Aug 02, 2002 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:57:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "What's New" To: aki ix.netcom.com WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 2 Aug 02 Washington, DC 1. ANTI-GRAVITY: A GRAVITY SHIELD WOULD BE VERY NICE, BUT... Never has an idea with no prospect for success so captivated corporate research managers who either never studied or never understood the most basic laws of physics. Both Boeing in the US and BAE Systems, the British aerospace giant, are trying to make the Podkletnov gravity shield work. BAE has already been at it for two years (WN 31 Mar 00), with no success. When NASA couldn't make the Podkletnov shield work, they invested another million dollars (WN 22 Jan 99). When it still didn't work, they decided the tests were "inconclusive" and sank another mil into it (WN 12 Oct 01). I have identified seven warning signs of bad science http://www.bobpark.com. The Podkletnov gravity shield fits all seven. So why would Boeing choose to spend millions to test a ridiculous claim by an obscure Russian physicist that has failed every test and is a physical impossibility to begin with? OK, so the Pentagon is paying for it. But there's also this goofy book by Nick Cook, who writes for Jane's Defense Weekly. 2. BOOK REVIEW: "THE HUNT FOR ZERO POINT," by NICK COOK. If this book is about controlling gravity, what's with the "zero point"? The confusion is natural; both lie within the province of fringe scientists who haven't a clue of where the real world stops and the fantasy world of Atlantis and UFO's begins. Cook is not a scientist of any sort; in his world, these guys are the insiders. Don't look for them in the pages of Phys Rev; they're not a bunch of pointy-headed academics. They are part of the black world of really important top secret stuff like -- well, electrogravitics. So who exactly fed Nick Cook this enormous pile of horse manure? If you're a regular reader of WN, you've already met them all. 3. FRINGE: WHERE EVERYTHING IS SECRET, AND NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE. When Cook set out on his search for "the biggest secret since the atom bomb," he went straight to the Integrity Research Institute, in Washington, DC, where you can buy books and videos with titles like "Holistic Physics and Consciousness" (WN 5 Mar 99). IRI is really Tom Valone, a former patent examiner who lost his job in the fallout from the Conference on Free Energy (WN 21 May 99). He had recruited Paul LaViolette, who claims the B-2 uses anti- gravity, reverse engineered from a crashed flying saucer. He was also fired (WN 18 Aug 00). They sent Cook to the Institute for Advanced Study. Not the one in Princeton; the one in Austin, TX. It consists of Harold Puthoff, who wants to extract energy from the zero point of the vacuum. He used to run the CIA's "remote viewing" program, which was inspired by "Mind Reach," a book he wrote with Russell Targ (WN 11 Mar 94). Finally, Cook sought advice from Charles Platt, founder of CryoCare, a company that keeps human heads bobbing in liquid nitrogen until scientists can figure out how to restart them (WN 21 Jul 00). THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the University or the American Physical Society, but they should be. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Aug 3 07:56:11 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15928; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 07:55:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 07:55:20 -0700 Message-ID: <001301c23af4$c78af880$4108bf3f computer> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: , Subject: Re: Thermoacoustic Engines and Refrigerators Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 08:50:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"JU0mK3.0.ou3.Ox-Iz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47789 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting stuff. http://www.er.doe.gov/feature_articles_2001/June/Decades/25.html Applicable U.S. Patents: http://164.195.100.11/netahtml/search-bool.html 4,953,366 5,813,234 5,892,293 5,901,556 5,996,345 6,425,250 Regards, Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Aug 3 16:43:29 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA10519; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 16:43:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 16:43:01 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:46:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for Aug 02, 2002] From: "Eugene F. Mallove" To: "vortex l eskimo.com" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3D4AF5EF.AA38890F ix.netcom.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7Av7l3.0.Fa2.4g6Jz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47790 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I am sure that Charles Platt would not mind my circulating his action in response to Park's latest garbage column, What's New. - Gene Mallove ********* If Park would be less LAZY, I wouldn't get so annoyed with him. But recycling his old grudges does not constitute journalism. My email below was sent to various APS addresses: To Bob Park: I have mailed the following letter to your keepers, who really should keep you on a shorter leash. By this I mean that they should teach you to use a telephone and/or access web sites to verify your sneers for accuracy. You do know what inaccurate sneers constitute, don't you, Bob? I can't be bothered to sue you, but one day, someone will get tired of your bile and respond in a way which you may not find so easy to ridicule in your inimitable fashion. Is it an oversimplification to suggest that since you never made any discovery of any originality yourself when you were a scientist, you now find pleasure in denigrating those who seek to do so? --- While I have respect for APS I am constantly dismayed by its sponsorship of Bob Park, whose weekly column is constantly riddled with inaccuracies. Park is a lazy writer; he does not bother to check his facts, presumably because he feels his targets deserve no such courtesy. In his most recent column, he writes: "Charles Platt, founder of CryoCare, a company that keeps human heads bobbing in liquid nitrogen until scientists can figure out how to restart them (WN 21 Jul 00)." No journalist would be allowed to get away with this kind of sloppiness. Why does APS tolerate it? The activities of CryoCare Foundation may or may not constitute valid science, but this is not the point. The point is that the organization suspended operations about two years ago, and even when it was doing business, it was merely an organization for dealing with legalities and paperwork, and never had any direct association with severed heads or liquid nitrogen. Scientists often complain (with good reason) that journalists make dumb errors. Alas, in Park's case, he is a scientist who makes dumb errors, repeatedly. Again, I am not making any claims for or against the validity of the work done by the people he maligns. I am merely pointing out that he is an opportunist who writes without care or interest in accuracy. Moreover, he is a petty man; his most recent mention of me has no purpose other than as another expression of his anger over a review that I wrote of his book VOODOO SCIENCE, in which (again) I pointed out that he had made numerous errors, in most cases because he simply can't be bothered to pick up the phone or check a web site, to verify his facts. APS deserves better. --Charles Platt From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Aug 3 18:44:48 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA19753; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 18:44:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 18:44:07 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: ELF of Fran De Aquino (OT?) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 11:43:32 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA19728 Resent-Message-ID: <"RE1W2.0.Zq4.dR8Jz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47791 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to hamdix verisoft.com.tr's message of Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:46:53 +0400: Hi, [snip] Consider how 60Hz propagates through a conductor. If this doesn't happen by means of an EM signal, then many people will be surprised I think. Now reduce the frequency of oscillation. When it gets to 0, the current is still propagating. De Aquino's frequency lies between these limits. > >Hi Robin, > >I am certainly not advocating Aquino theory and it appears to me to technically >impossible to create measurable ELF EM fields with proposed setups, but you are >wrong here. > >> DC is less than 1 uHz, and it flows through conductors just fine. > > >DC classically, does not produce EM waves and induction, but ELF does with a suitable configuration. >So you cant falsify Aquino's hypothesis with this example. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Aug 3 18:48:22 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA21283; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 18:47:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 18:47:42 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for Aug 02, 2002] Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 11:47:08 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <0n1pkuc7nlbp92jkrc7u4224175eieoc9m 4ax.com> References: <3D4AF5EF.AA38890F ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <3D4AF5EF.AA38890F ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id SAA21240 Resent-Message-ID: <"5HF3g.0.OC5.zU8Jz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47792 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to Akira Kawasaki's message of Fri, 02 Aug 2002 14:13:19 -0700: Hi, [snip] >WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 2 Aug 02 Washington, DC > >1. ANTI-GRAVITY: A GRAVITY SHIELD WOULD BE VERY NICE, BUT... >Never has an idea with no prospect for success so captivated >corporate research managers who either never studied or never >understood the most basic laws of physics. Both Boeing in the US ....and empty jars make the most sound. ;) Anti-gravity is real, thus RP clearly wouldn't know a law of nature, if it bit him on the backside. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 07:16:14 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA23984; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:15:10 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 07:15:10 -0700 X-Sent: 5 Aug 2002 14:14:34 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020805100529.02bf2338 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 10:15:15 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Antigravity researchers should publish Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"mjpP32.0.Xs5.iXeJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47793 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Naturally, I agree Bob Park is off base, but I do wish these anti-gravity researchers would publish normally instead of conducting all this research without reporting results. Park says BAE and Boeing have put years of effort into it "with no success." For all anyone outside these organizations knows he may be right. Perhaps they *have* had no success. The same can be said for Mills. It seems unlikely that corporations would pour resources into a project that has not shown the slightest evidence of success, but corporations and individuals sometimes act irrationally. For example, CF *has* shown signs of success -- very clear, very high s/n ratios -- and yet BAE and Boeing have not invested a dime in CF as far as I know. That's highly irrational. These discoveries would have tremendous economic value if real. I suppose that is why the companies are keeping them secret. But they cannot patent a force of nature or physics discovery, all of the techniques would be reverse engineered in every nation a few months after the first machine is sold, and they probably do not have the wherewithal to develop the technology on their own, so I think they should go public the way AT&T went public with the transistor early on. I have written articles about the transistor and the airplane illustrating the folly of secret projects at this stage of research. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 10:11:30 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA08098; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:10:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:10:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3D4DFD17.C8F6D63A ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 21:20:39 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "vortex-L eskimo.com" Subject: [Fwd: ChemWeb.com Member News Bulletin] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v-1XH3.0.D-1.z5hJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47794 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: ChemWeb.com Member News Bulletin Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 08:34:05 -0500 From: "ChemWeb.com" To: ================================================= ChemWeb.com News Bulletin - Volume 5, Issue 31 Dear Akira Kawasaki, (Member Name:aki22) ================================================= In this issue: 1 - the alchemist highlights 2 - InnoCentive Challenge of the Month 3 - Chemistry Preprint Server - Cold Fusion Heats Up! 4 - 'Hot papers' - selected by the alchemist 5 - Conference reporting from DDT and the Fall ACS 6 - Visit us at Fall ACS booth 114! 7 - Book of the Week ================================================= 1 - the alchemist highlights ================================================= Sign up to receive the alchemist headlines each week. Go to: http://www.chemweb.com/mailing_list/add_user.asp?firstlist=Alchemist Detecting Individual Neutrons with an Ultra-small Device http://www.chemweb.com/alchem/articles/1027071280321.html Use of New Intense Sweeteners is Proposed http://www.chemweb.com/alchem/articles/1027071217663.html Phthalates, the Contaminants in All of Us Phthalates are ubiquituous, produced by the thousands of tons every year, and found in detectable levels in blood and urine, but as an environmental contaminant how harmful to human health is phthalate? http://www.chemweb.com/alchem/articles/1027071157131.html Read more headlines and see the latest features at: http://alchemist.chemweb.com ================================================= 2 - InnoCentive Challenge of the Month ================================================= Prize - Win US$ 50,000 Title - G-MOE Brief - An efficient synthetic route is required for the following functionalized nucleoside. This molecule may have been previously reported in the chemical literature but the existing known synthetic routes are low yielding and not cost-effective. Devise and execute a novel synthetic strategy that allows for the efficient synthesis of this compound. http://www.chemweb.com/utils/email.asp?id=9399&uid=294183 ================================================= 3 - Chemistry Preprint Server - Cold Fusion Heats Up! ================================================= Four preprints have recently been submitted to the CPS discussing Cold Fusion and related phenomena: * Nature of the Nuclear Active Environment Required for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions - Edmund Storms, http://preprint.chemweb.com/physchem/0208001 * Cold Fusion: An Objective Assessment - Edmund Storms, http://preprint.chemweb.com/physchem/0207012 * A Critical Evaluation of the Pons-Fleischmann Effect - Edmund Storms, http://preprint.chemweb.com/physchem/0207011 * Theoretical Framework for Anomalous Heat and 4He From Low Energy Nuclear Reactions in Transition Metal Systems - Scott Chubb, http://preprint.chemweb.com/analchem/0207002 Don't forget you can contribute to the online discussion groups for all articles submitted to the CPS. To submit a preprint: http://preprint.chemweb.com/CPS/show/.global/Submission/index.html To browse all articles: http://preprint.chemweb.com/CPS/show/.global/Browse/browse.html ================================================= 4 - 'Hot papers' - selected by the alchemist ================================================= Why not take a look at the latest 'hot papers' from leading chemistry journals. Arsenic speciation The speciation of arsenic in body fluids is presented. (Talanta, 16 August 2002) http://www.chemweb.com/utils/email.asp?id=9400&uid=294183 Starchy tubes The solubilization of single-walled carbon nanotubes using aqueous starch solution is reported. (Angew Chem Int Ed, 15 July 2002) http://www.chemweb.com/alchem/articles/1027071184857.html ================================================= 5 - Conference reporting from DDT and the Fall ACS ================================================= The next two conferences the alchemist will be reporting at will be Drug Discovery Technology 2002 (DDT), to be held in Boston, MA, on the 4–9 August 2002 and the Fall ACS 2002 to be held in Boston, MA on 18-22 August 2002. Sign up for the Email Update to DDT and be first with the news. http://www.chemweb.com/alchem/articles/1027070968576.html Sign up for the Email Update to the ACS Fall and be first with the news. http://www.chemweb.com/alchem/articles/1027071129018.html ================================================= 6 - Visit us at Fall ACS booth 114! ================================================= We are exhibiting at Fall ACS 2002 in Boston, August 19-21. Come and check us out to see what new and exciting features we have added to ChemWeb to make it better for you. We are giving away inflatable postcards so that you can mail your colleagues, friends and family from the show! So come and have a look and see what you've been missing. Come by and see us at booth 114. ================================================= 7 - Book of the Week ================================================= The Common Thread John Sulston & Georgina Ferry The Common Thread: A Story of Science, Politics, Ethics and the Human Genome is a fascinating insight into the development of the basic science, funding and scaling-up to industrial proportions of the sequencing and mapping of the human genome. Read the alchemist's review at: http://www.chemweb.com/alchem/articles/1027071218917.html ================================================= If you would like a reminder of your Member Name/password, please use our reminder service at: http://www.chemweb.com/home?forgot=1 ================================================= This email has been sent to you because you are a registered member of ChemWeb.com and we feel it is important to keep you up-to-date with new developments. If you would prefer not to receive any more of these emails, please click on the link below to automatically unsubscribe: http://www.chemweb.com/unsubscribe?uid=294183 ================================================== Best regards Kristina Thrower Member Services PS. If you think that a friend or colleague might find ChemWeb.com useful, don't forget to forward them this message. ================================================== From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 10:29:28 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA17533; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:28:30 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:28:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:30:53 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200208051730.g75HUri19844 oxpppt1.elsevier.co.uk> To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: aki ix.netcom.com Subject: CPS - A recommendation from Mr Akira Kawasaki Resent-Message-ID: <"PT4kd2.0.sH4.-MhJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47796 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This article, on the Chemistry Preprint Server, has been recommended to you by Mr Akira Kawasaki Message: Article Title: Cold Fusion: An Objective Assessment Article: http://preprint.chemweb.com/physchem/0207012 Regards, The CPS Team preprint chemweb.com The Chemistry Preprint Server http://preprint.chemweb.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 10:32:18 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA04669; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:26:45 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200208051726.g75HQjJ19290 oxpppt1.elsevier.co.uk> To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: aki ix.netcom.com Subject: CPS - A recommendation from Mr Akira Kawasaki Resent-Message-ID: <"VilqF3.0.r81.GJhJz" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47795 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This article, on the Chemistry Preprint Server, has been recommended to you by Mr Akira Kawasaki Message: Article Title: Nature of the Nuclear Active Environment Required for Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Article: http://preprint.chemweb.com/physchem/0208001 Regards, The CPS Team preprint chemweb.com The Chemistry Preprint Server http://preprint.chemweb.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 10:32:46 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA18328; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:30:49 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:30:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:33:11 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200208051733.g75HXBj19968 oxpppt1.elsevier.co.uk> To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: aki ix.netcom.com Subject: CPS - A recommendation from Mr Akira Kawasaki Resent-Message-ID: <"pKq_C.0.DU4.8PhJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47797 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This article, on the Chemistry Preprint Server, has been recommended to you by Mr Akira Kawasaki Message: Article Title: A Critical Evaluation of the Pons-Fleischmann Effect Article: http://preprint.chemweb.com/physchem/0207011 Regards, The CPS Team preprint chemweb.com The Chemistry Preprint Server http://preprint.chemweb.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 10:33:28 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA19516; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:33:14 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:33:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:35:38 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200208051735.g75HZc320315 oxpppt1.elsevier.co.uk> To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: aki ix.netcom.com Subject: CPS - A recommendation from Mr Akira Kawasaki Resent-Message-ID: <"ctmid.0.hm4.QRhJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47798 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This article, on the Chemistry Preprint Server, has been recommended to you by Mr Akira Kawasaki Message: Article Title: Theoretical Framework for Anomalous Heat and ⁴He From Low Energy Nuclear Reactions in Transition Metal Systems Article: http://preprint.chemweb.com/analchem/0207002 Regards, The CPS Team preprint chemweb.com The Chemistry Preprint Server http://preprint.chemweb.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 10:43:54 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA24076; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:43:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 10:43:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:45:25 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200208051745.g75HjPR22304 oxpppt1.elsevier.co.uk> To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: aki ix.netcom.com Subject: CPS - A recommendation from Mr Akira Kawasaki Resent-Message-ID: <"hulx83.0.6u5.bahJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47799 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This article, on the Chemistry Preprint Server, has been recommended to you by Mr Akira Kawasaki Message: Article Title: Theoretical Framework for Anomalous Heat and ⁴He From Low Energy Nuclear Reactions in Transition Metal Systems Article: http://preprint.chemweb.com/analchem/0207002 Regards, The CPS Team preprint chemweb.com The Chemistry Preprint Server http://preprint.chemweb.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 11:32:55 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15307; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:32:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 11:32:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Antigravity researchers should publish To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 22:31:45 +0400 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"pC7No1.0._k3.VIiJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47800 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Jed, In this case I think there are also reasons why we dont get no further information from russian side. According to Janes.com and other media sources. Russia is blocking the information flow, second it is said Russian researcher is strongly anti-military and dont want its discovery be used for weapons in the first hand. It may be right or wrong. Realistically, the discovery will be first used for military purposes as usual. Only prevent this is not give further information for one to reproduce the effect. Maybe similar to a recent research made in Russia, researcher wished to use their discovery exclusively in their country. Of course such approach are not "scientific". Meaning of these quotes is science in world in past and currently is NOT driven by scientific arguments. That is to know how the nature works. I think very few if no at all institutions in the world doing scientific research by this arguments. Instead arguments are health, commercial, military and other ... of interest. Yes this can be accepted in many disciplines, specially applied science. After all, one can say "science is for the goodness of humanity. This have two meanings: 1) Science is good for humanity. Yes this is right. 2) Purpose of the science is to provide better future to humanity. This is wrong because, it open the way to criticize a scientific work and allow or not depending their specific criteria on what is good and bad for the humanity. This involve religions, political choices, economic systems. For example one can believe that humanity will survive if it follow capitalism. So if an scientific discovery would have negative impact on the tools of an capitalist system, this scientific research could be banned. Unfortunately, I think few people in the world would accept the science would not have a specific purpose. We are seeing that cloning researches are banned. This is because people think as I described above. Now, it appears that scientific research are trying to avoid the "purpose" criteria by doing researches which not have impact on anything. For example black holes, exotic subatomic particles, mass of the neutrino, detecting gravity waves which may generated by black hole collisions by methods guarantied to not work. Specially, rising an "upper limits" of a hypothetical physical value which never been detected is a very save to make science. Even, there is a serious discrimination of scientists according their origin in the world, at least a separation of western and eastern. So it is hard to blame any researchers trying to do something having impact on our world for their decision to publish or not their findings. Another important fact that I observed belong superconductor-gravity connection research is that I did not encountered an article on investigating the behavior of superconductors on large electrical impulsive or variable fields and currents. If I were a researcher on superconductors, I would like to know just its electrical response, without bothering with gravity. Absence of such a curiosity overall is a sign a serious problem in physics I think. Without such a preliminary investigation, no one have right to criticize a researcher for to not disclose all his findings or for repeatability problems. Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Naturally, I agree Bob Park is off base, but I do wish these anti-gravity > researchers would publish normally instead of conducting all this research > without reporting results. Park says BAE and Boeing have put years of > effort into it "with no success." For all anyone outside these > organizations knows he may be right. Perhaps they *have* had no success. > The same can be said for Mills. It seems unlikely that corporations would > pour resources into a project that has not shown the slightest evidence of > success, but corporations and individuals sometimes act irrationally. For > example, CF *has* shown signs of success -- very clear, very high s/n > ratios -- and yet BAE and Boeing have not invested a dime in CF as far as I > know. That's highly irrational. > > These discoveries would have tremendous economic value if real. I suppose > that is why the companies are keeping them secret. But they cannot patent a > force of nature or physics discovery, all of the techniques would be > reverse engineered in every nation a few months after the first machine is > sold, and they probably do not have the wherewithal to develop the > technology on their own, so I think they should go public the way AT&T went > public with the transistor early on. I have written articles about the > transistor and the airplane illustrating the folly of secret projects at > this stage of research. > > - Jed Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 13:21:44 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA01125; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:20:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:20:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3D4EDEC4.D6972BFD ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:23:32 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: On the Chemweb e-mails to Vortex Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xGT-O1.0.SH.KujJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47801 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Aug. 05, 2002 Vortex, My mistake. I thought that e-mailing the pre-print articles from Chemweb would send the item whole to vortex. It still does, but you must join Chemweb prior to accessing the article --- which is at no cost, I believe, and relatively simple. -ak-. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 17:59:37 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA27365; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 17:58:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 17:58:55 -0700 From: Erikbaard aol.com Message-ID: <82.1f72fd1f.2a807922 aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:58:10 EDT Subject: Re: Antigravity researchers should publish To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Resent-Message-ID: <"RYbds3.0.Gh6.DznJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47802 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Boeing statement: "The recent report that we are [involved in anti-grav research] is based on a misinterpretation of information. For instance, GRASP is not a codename for a current project but rather an acronym for a presentation entitled "Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion," in which a Boeing engineer explains Podkletnov's theory and proposes that we should continue to monitor this work and perhaps even conduct some low-cost experiments to further assess its plausibility. No steps have been taken beyond this point by Boeing." From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 18:55:46 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA17544; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:53:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:53:25 -0700 From: Erikbaard aol.com Message-ID: <113.154802d5.2a8085ea aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 21:52:42 EDT Subject: Bob Park and Erik Baard exchange To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Resent-Message-ID: <"RrI5B2.0.2I4.LmoJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47803 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: BAARD to Hydrino Studies Group: Anyone notice that Park's non-disclaiming disclaimer now includes the University of Maryland? "THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the University or the American Physical Society, but they should be." Maybe www.bobpark.com will also start distancing itself from him. Erik _______________________________________________________ PARK to Hydrino Studies Group: Where has Erik Baard been? Far from distancing itself, the University of Maryland joined the American Physical Society in sponsoring What's New almost a year ago. This was announced in What's New on 7 Sept 01. The Department of Physics made the writing of What's New part of my teaching assignment, thus providing me with more time to expose fraudulent science and sloppy reporting. Since no one at the University of Maryland or the American Physical Society has any editorial responsibility for What's New before it goes out, I include both in the disclaimer. The willingness of both organizations to allow What's New to be issued without eitorial review constitutes a strong vote of confidence. I wonder if any organization would consider publishing the writings of Erik Baard without editorial control? Robert L. Park _________________________________________________________________ BAARD to Hydrino Studies Group: Well, Dr. Park is more prickly when playfully poked than I'd expected. Anyway, a few quick notes: 1) Dr. Park has on numerous occasions blasted universities for having flaky curricula. I'm not sure that simply having administrators make the writing of "What's New" a part of one's teaching assignment is a strong endorsement of its worth. It could also be seen as a sign of resignation that a presumably tenured faculty member is sufficiently obsessed with one activity that it may be difficult to squeeze anything else of value from that person. 2) "(M)ore time to expose fraudulent science and sloppy reporting." Most of Dr. Park's targets are easy pickings. As I have said many times, usually weird ideas in science are just that -- weird. Much like mutations in genes, these oddities rarely confer advantage. If one sits back and rides out a career shooting down bizarre-seeming concepts, the statistical probability is that most of the deflated notions will deserve such treatment. A nice bargain, and all without the effort of critical thinking! Of course, the marketplace of ideas and the marketplace of products are intrinsically tied, so the active choices of scientists, managers, regulators, and consumers are perpetually (dare I use the word?) at work. Bad ideas die or linger at the very fringes of society. Some, like palm reading, may never go away. But truly, how much value is a professional naysayer adding to society above and beyond these mechanisms? If one needs an expert to dispute or dismiss a new concept, any number of universities and labs have brilliant people working hands-on in relevant fields. A bonus is that they may not only reveal the flaw in a proposal, they might also even provide an alternative based on current research. And Dr. Park makes errors without regret or, quite often, correction. I'll use Dr. Mills as an example only because I know that subject pretty well. He accused Dr. Mills of claiming hydrinos could cure cancer, when in fact Dr. Mills made no such claim. Dr. Mills did, however, publish a cancer paper in Nature in 1988. The treatment conceived in that paper relies heavily on a knowledge of physics, and Dr. Mills has said his more classical way of framing particle physics helped him construct his thoughts. But that paper in Nature and further work on the idea made no use of hydrinos. Dr. Park wrongly asserts that Dr. Mills "had no record of scientific publication." A caption in a Forbes article by Dr. Park identified a standard spectrometer (which had its make and model clearly in view) as a "hydrino machine." That would be like labeling a Ford Escort a "UFO." There's more, of course, but I have rent to pay with other articles, so let's move along. 3) "The willingness of both organizations to allow What's New to be issued without editorial review constitutes a strong vote of confidence. I wonder if any organization would consider publishing the writings of Erik Baard without editorial control?" It could be viewed as unfortunate that the university and the APS are apparently unwilling to devote editorial resources to what amounts to a vanity project. Just about anything of note undergoes review by editors. I am thankful for editors at the New York Times, Village Voice, Wall Street Journal, Dow Jones Newswires, and various popular science publications and other outlets in a way somewhat similar to how scientists are thankful for peer review. A good editor forces a writer to hone ideas, communicate more clearly, address biases, search deeper, and be more open. For Dr. Park to imply that these publications would do me honor by not assigning me an editor shows a complete ignorance of the journalistic process. That's important because Dr. Park is operating outside his expertise most of the time -- medicine, space exploration, politics, etc. and delivering his results to lay readers. That's not science, that's the work of a journalist, which we often joke in the field is a slur of "generalist." If he wants to comment on these wide-ranging topics and meet such standards, he must interview experts in each endeavor and record what they say faithfully as he can. And he needs editors. In truth, I regret and apologize to Dr. Park for taking a personal poke at him through the HSG email forum. Given the snarky phrasing of his disclaimer, I thought my comment was in-bounds. But it seems I offended him more deeply than intended, and I don't take pleasure from being unkind. I do, however, stand by these statements made today as being factual based on my knowledge. I am, however, always open to correction. After all, I'm doing this without an editor. Erik Hydrino Study Group (HSG): A serious look at the novel theory of Dr. Randell Mills. Web Site http://www.hydrino.org Post message: hydrino yahoogroups.com Subscribe: hydrino-subscribe yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe: hydrino-unsubscribe yahoogroups.com List owner: hydrino-owner yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 5 20:14:42 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA14621; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:14:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:14:03 -0700 From: Erikbaard aol.com Message-ID: <59.1f67a91a.2a8098c1 aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 23:13:05 EDT Subject: Baard and Park background To: park aps.org, storms2@ix.netcom.com, hydrino@yahoogroups.com, vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Resent-Message-ID: <"kzNE51.0.Ja3.xxpJz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47804 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Again, I would appreciate the chance to more firmly challenge Dr. Park's belittling of my professional abilities. He most recently wrote, "I wonder if any organization would consider publishing the writings of Erik Baard without editorial control?" The New York City Chapter (i.e., largest and most competitive section) of the Society of Professional Journalists, the leading "organization" in its field, in May awarded me the prize for best reporting in non-daily news (http://deadline.home.pipeline.com/winners2002.htm). Forgive this self-indulgent afterthought, but tooting my own horn isn't reflexive for me. I've written more extensively about Dr. Randell Mills and the hydrino concept for lay readers than anyone else. Many people are familiar with Dr. Mills' ideas primarily through my articles in the Village Voice, Wall Street Journal, Dow Jones Newswires, and Wired News. For that reason, my reputation has bearing in this small discussion. You'll note that I shared a byline for the winning entry, but Ms. Cooney would be the first to say that I was the sole author of the article. The Society asked me to write about that process, and this is what I submitted through the Village Voice: <<"China's Execution Inc." (Village Voice cover story, May 2, 2001) was the first article documenting an American surgeon's experience with patients who left United States soil to purchase organ transplants from hospitals serving China's death row, and then returned here for follow-up treatment. The practice had long been rumored, but without substantiation on this side of the Pacific. Even law enforcement sting operations came up empty handed. This article showed with reliable sourcing that there were indeed people walking our streets implanted with the organs of executed Chinese prisoners - some of whom may have been killed for minor or political offenses. Dr. Thomas Diflo, director of renal transplant surgery at NYU Medical Center, didn't seek media attention, only the advice of peers on his hospital's ethics committee. He was having difficulty caring for patients, typically young Chinese-American or Chinese immigrant women, who had violated his core moral beliefs. Freelance photographer Rebecca Cooney heard a rumor several times removed from the source about the surgeon's dilemma, and after finding no takers at the New York Times, told me about it. I mentioned the vague tip casually, as a future story, to Village Voice editor Laura Conaway, who quickly referred it to editor-in-chief Don Forst. Mr. Forst wanted to jump on the story immediately, so I found and interviewed Dr. Diflo (who was forthcoming when approached), human rights activists, government officials, law enforcement agencies, and Chinese community leaders (even priests in Chinatown), organ donor nonprofit organizations, and other physicians to provide confirmation and context. Dr. Diflo's patients declined through him to be interviewed. I researched prior testimony about the organ trade in China and elsewhere, and the political and technological solutions to the organ shortage that have been offered. Readers also learned of how transplant profits might be corrupting the Chinese judicial system. Another important point revealed by the story was that many patients returning to the U.S. receive treatments and medications subsidized by American taxpayers. The turnaround time for the approximately 3,600-word story from when the tip was passed to Don Forst to publication was six days, with my writing done in three. Rebecca Cooney photographed the story. Dr. Diflo was subsequently, as a result of the article, a primary witness in congressional hearings about the Chinese death row organ transplant business as the U.S. mulled that nation's trade status. Other publications and broadcasters followed on the story, some focusing specifically on Dr. Diflo's experiences as recounted in the Voice. The New York Times was notable for this, closely mirroring elements of the article's contents and structure in a front page story half a year later, on Sunday, November 11. Though the United States and China have in some sense had warmer relations in recent days as they cooperate in the war on terrorism, and law enforcement agencies have redirected their efforts to staunch further attacks, the organ trade and other human rights issues could reassert themselves as sources of friction between the two nations most likely to shape the 21st century.>> Erik From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 6 07:53:09 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA30465; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 07:51:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 07:51:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:51:26 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: http://www.gravity-society.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zy4lq1.0.xR7.P9-Jz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47805 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gravity Society ... new WWW URL http://www.gravity-society.org From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 6 09:09:56 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA21687; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:49:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:49:01 -0700 Message-ID: <006601c23d60$ad6753e0$2823010a arghou.argcorp.argworldwide.com> From: "Craig Haynie" To: Subject: Article on Cold Fusion (called the Pons-Fleishmann Effect) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:48:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Resent-Message-ID: <"9JQP51.0.nI5.i_-Jz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47806 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > http://evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=391 Craig (Houston) From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 6 12:08:53 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA16859; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:07:51 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:07:51 -0700 X-Sent: 6 Aug 2002 19:07:17 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020806150245.0325c618 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:08:02 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: LENR.org papers available Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"rngNG2.0.L74.6w1Kz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47807 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: We have begun making papers available on LENR.org. Many more will follow. The ones posted now may have formatting problems, and at least one cannot be read (by me, anyway) for some reason. I would appreciate hearing comments about the papers, especially secretarial level comments about margins, formatting, spelling etc. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 6 12:14:56 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20124; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:13:29 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:13:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3D50201C.9020906 rtpatlanta.com> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:14:36 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Salon on AG Research Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GwiN32.0.Iw4.O_1Kz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47808 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/08/05/zero_gravity/index.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 7 12:23:13 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA23641; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:14:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 12:14:25 -0700 X-Sent: 7 Aug 2002 19:13:47 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020807151258.02bf1b18 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 15:14:10 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Request papers in electronic format for new web site LENR.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"kZ9QV3.0.En5.G6NKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47809 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Edmund Storms, Peter Hagelstein and I are starting a new web site, LENR.org, with many cold fusion papers. We want to establish a place where scientists can find information easily, without searching through back issues of journals. We have uploaded some leading papers already: http://lenr.org/papers/ ENECO has given us permission to upload the papers in the ICCF-7 Proceedings. We have begun doing that, but it will take weeks or months, because the papers must be converted to Acrobat .pdf format. Do you have any cold fusion papers you would like to make available on this site? If so, please upload them into the "Papers" section, or e-mail them to me. If they are in Microsoft Word, Wordperfect or some other format other than Acrobat .pdf, please send them to me and I will convert them. (Please circulate this notice to any cold fusion scientist you know) - Jed Rothwell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 8 05:55:53 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA05869; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:55:12 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:55:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3D526A76.6060902 rtpatlanta.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 08:56:22 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Light Slowing? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lYgEx1.0.bR1.lecKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47810 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Speed of light has changed, claims Macquarie physicist Australian theoretical physicist, Professor Paul Davies, has proposed that one of the so-called "constants" of the universe - the speed of light - has in fact slowed over time, a revelation that will cause a rethink of many of our accepted laws of physics as well as our "understanding" of the beginning of the universe." more at: http://www.pr.mq.edu.au/events/index.asp?ItemID=607 Does this support an aether theory, ie as the universe expands aether becomes less dense and light slows? Terry From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 8 06:12:17 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA17539; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:11:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:11:41 -0700 From: Erikbaard aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:10:58 EDT Subject: HSG: Baard - Park Comment To: cpibel american.edu, hydrino@yahoogroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Resent-Message-ID: <"bu5Tp1.0.wH4.CucKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47811 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Good Morning, Rushing through deadlines, but I wanted to note in response to Charles Pibel's post that yes, I have read Park's "What's New (someone once dubbed it, "What's New That I Hate") weekly for years. It's my last sour note before the weekend. He does write occasionally about Congressional issues that could pinch physicists' research wallets (APS is, after all, a lobbying group as well) and he recently shocked me by criticizing corruption in mainstream research (I can recall few earlier incidents). But let's be real -- take out cold fusion, other "free energy" concepts, parapsychology, magnet therapy, Creationism, antigravity, and "Vitamin O" supplements and he doesn't have much material. Take away his catch phrase, "Voodoo Science," and he has scant reputation. That's his choice to pander to what his "readers like to read." No one reading "What's New" is being served -- the column is nearly entirely schadenfreude fluff, and at times misinfotainment. Take BlackLight, which has gathered some pennies compared with other lines of research. The investors are wealthy people who hire scientists to investigate Dr. Mills before plunking down their bets. Dr. Mills is not knocking on doors at retirement villages and sleepy row houses. Who is Dr. Park protecting then? I ask Dr. Park's choir, has he prevented a recession by keeping funds from these causes? If these things are hokum, they'll fade away to nothingness or a dark recess of our culture. Even Creationism, given that it held sway for millennia (myths predating Christianity included), that it's slipping away as a "science" so rapidly is astonishing. Personally, however, I think beating spirituality out of the human animal entirely is a fool's errand. Conversely, to conspiracy nuts I ask, has Dr. Park saved the Earth from Vitamin O/magnet therapy-empowered Creationists reading our minds and imposing their will from on-high aboard antigravity UFOs powered by free energy? I've already addressed the college course issue, and I'm not convinced by your argument. As I wrote, universities (and Dr. Park has noted this in the past) spend money on absurdities sometimes. Besides, Dr. Park was recently knocked out of commission by his unfortunate accident and is nearer to retirement than most -- I wouldn't rule out some compassion in the decision. His recent teaching assignments, I believe, were mostly science writing courses anyway, not hard-core science instruction. I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but I'm tired of endless potshots from people who haven't generated new ideas in decades, as much as I'm tired of many of the vague conspiracy theories from the fringe. One sign of hope is that Science and New Scientist are coming out in defense of the right to conduct and publish controversial research (apart from harmless noodlings that can't be tested), defying the Parks of the world but also quieting the ever-suspicious X-Files crowd. And yes, Dr. Mills needs an editor too. Erik From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 8 12:25:34 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA01911; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:02:47 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:02:47 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <-953967753.1028833328579.JavaMail.root localhost> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:02:08 -0700 (PDT) To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: ABCNEWS.com : Columnist Lee Dye: It's Time to Make Research Free Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_130174_-953989593.1028833328550" X-Mailer: sendhtml Resent-Message-ID: <"uDd1r.0.jT.N1iKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47812 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_130174_-953989593.1028833328550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: INLINE *Please note, the sender's email address has not been verified. 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------=_Part_130174_-953989593.1028833328550-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 8 13:04:55 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA20604; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:47:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:47:11 -0700 From: aki ix.netcom.com Message-ID: <-950417505.1028835989481.JavaMail.root localhost> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT) To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: CNN.com - Has time run out on Einstein's theory? - June 5, 2002 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_130608_-951307897.1028835989445" X-Mailer: sendhtml Resent-Message-ID: <"0AJ_C2.0.l15.-giKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47813 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ------=_Part_130608_-951307897.1028835989445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: INLINE *Please note, the sender's email address has not been verified. You have received the following link from aki ix.netcom.com ******************** If you are having trouble with any of the links in this message, or if the URL's are not appearing as links, please follow the instructions at the bottom of this email. Title: CNN.com - Has time run out on Einstein's theory? - June 5, 2002 Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to access the sent link: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=582611265&pt=Y Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to SAVE THIS link: http://www.savethis.clickability.com/st/saveThisPopupApp?clickMap=saveFromET&partnerID=2000&etMailToID=582611265&pt=Y Copy and paste the following into your Web browser to forward this link: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=forward&etMailToID=582611265&partnerID=2000&pt=Y ******************** Email pages from any Web site you visit - add the EMAIL THIS button to your browser, copy and paste the following into your Web browser: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=browserButtons&pt=Y" ********************* Instructions: ----------------------------------------- If your e-mail program doesn't recognize Web addresses: 1. With your mouse, highlight the Web Address above. Be sure to highlight the entire Web address, even if it spans more than one line in your email. 2. Select Copy from the Edit menu at the top of your screen. 3. Launch your Web browser. 4. Paste the address into your Web browser by selecting Paste from the Edit menu. 5. Click Go or press Enter or Return on your keyboard. ******************** ------=_Part_130608_-951307897.1028835989445 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: INLINE EMAIL THIS Email

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------=_Part_130608_-951307897.1028835989445-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 8 17:04:18 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA11885; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:03:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:03:02 -0700 From: "xplorer" To: "Vortex-L Eskimo. Com" Subject: Q: Thermal re-entry barrier Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:07:47 +0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"qs-tg3.0.Vv2.sQmKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47814 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi folks - Recent experiments with fiberglass using silicone resin as a 'stiffening matrix' (I don't know the jargon, there is probably a better term) in place of epoxy or polyester have been encouraging. It appears I can paint the resin on in very thin layers, allowing adequate time to dry between layers, cooking the panels after drying have finished. The end result is a relatively stiff construction which might be used for thermal re-entry protection for a spacecraft. It seems to stand up to 1200 C temp. Trouble is, I am not a chemist, and I ponder if it might be better to use carbon fiber instead of glass as the tensile strength. The doubt is that as the outer skin ablates, the carbon would be much more susceptible to burning, resulting in what I envision as a 'peeling flame', exposing the under layers to undergo the same fate. Or is there some mechanism that would cause the silicone to form a strong bond with the carbon and give it more temperature strength ? Is this right ? Any ideas ? The finished fiberglass sheets I made using silicone resin were astonishingly lightweight compared to our regular polyester/fiber panels, giving rise to high hope this technique will work.... thanx for any replies... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 8 18:55:50 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA23019; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:49:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:49:34 -0700 Message-ID: <007601c23f46$5b9ef580$7cfea8c0 newmicronpc> From: "jonfli" To: References: Subject: Re: Thermal re-entry barrier Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:44:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"sNlmz3.0.bd5.k-nKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47815 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: xplorer- How did you determine this composite layup with silicone resin could withstand 1200 C? Also, are you using a 2-part silicone resin and if so, would you give us some details? What weight and style of glass cloth have you used? I have an interest and use for high temp composites in the exhaust systems of competition RC aircraft is the reason I ask. Regards, Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "xplorer" To: "Vortex-L Eskimo. Com" Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 7:07 PM Subject: Q: Thermal re-entry barrier > > Hi folks - > > Recent experiments with fiberglass using silicone resin as > a 'stiffening matrix' > (I don't know the jargon, there is probably a better term) > in place of epoxy or polyester have been encouraging. > It appears I can paint the resin on in very thin layers, > allowing adequate time to dry between layers, > cooking the panels after drying have finished. > The end result is a relatively stiff construction > which might be used for thermal re-entry protection > for a spacecraft. It seems to stand up to 1200 C temp. > Trouble is, I am not a chemist, > and I ponder if it might be better > to use carbon fiber instead of glass > as the tensile strength. > The doubt is that as the outer skin ablates, > the carbon would be much more susceptible to burning, > resulting in what I envision as a 'peeling flame', > exposing the under layers to undergo the same fate. > Or is there some mechanism that would cause the > silicone to form a strong bond with the carbon > and give it more temperature strength ? > > Is this right ? > Any ideas ? > > The finished fiberglass sheets I made using silicone resin > were astonishingly lightweight compared to our > regular polyester/fiber panels, > giving rise to high hope this technique will work.... > > thanx for any replies... > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 8 20:59:58 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA09591; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:59:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:59:28 -0700 Message-ID: <20020809035924.32906.qmail web11206.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:59:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Q: Thermal re-entry barrier To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"hyAch1.0.mL2.WupKz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47816 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: X: Sounds interesting enough. There are some fundamentals of heat shield design you will have to know. These two are most important. 1) Will it stand up to the heat and will it do so while air (100mb or so) is passing at Mach18 for at least 3 to 5 min. 2) Will it insulate the spacecraft. That is will it prevent the heat from passing through and roasting the contents. Without these two properties the best you can hope for is a plastic barbecue grill. Other points of interest are: Is it rugged. e/g A sir tian amount of flexibility is desirable otherwise it might gain nothing over the tried and true beer-stone ceramic laminate. Is the expansion rate relatively close to that of aircraft aluminum as the shuttle cockpit is made from a 747 shell. so it comes down to... Friction heat tolerance Thermal resistance Mechanical rigidity expansion rate --- xplorer <xplorer indo.net.id> wrote: > > Hi folks - > > Recent experiments with fiberglass using silicone resin as > a 'stiffening matrix' > (I don't know the jargon, there is probably a better term) > in place of epoxy or polyester have been encouraging. > It appears I can paint the resin on in very thin layers, > allowing adequate time to dry between layers, > cooking the panels after drying have finished. > The end result is a relatively stiff construction > which might be used for thermal re-entry protection > for a spacecraft. It seems to stand up to 1200 C temp. > Trouble is, I am not a chemist, > and I ponder if it might be better > to use carbon fiber instead of glass > as the tensile strength. > The doubt is that as the outer skin ablates, > the carbon would be much more susceptible to burning, > resulting in what I envision as a 'peeling flame', > exposing the under layers to undergo the same fate. > Or is there some mechanism that would cause the > silicone to form a strong bond with the carbon > and give it more temperature strength ? > > Is this right ? > Any ideas ? > > The finished fiberglass sheets I made using silicone resin > were astonishingly lightweight compared to our > regular polyester/fiber panels, > giving rise to high hope this technique will work.... > > thanx for any replies... > ===== Charles Ford KC5-OWZ cjford1 yahoo.com cjford1 swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 9 17:19:31 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA29249; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:18:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:18:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3D545C88.ADE58D30 ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 17:21:28 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Aug 09, 2002] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NwR-a.0.x87.Hl5Lz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47817 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: What's New for Aug 09, 2002 Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:47:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "What's New" To: aki ix.netcom.com WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 9 Aug 02 Washington, DC 1. PEER REVIEW: IS NSF STARTING TO RESEMBLE A PORK BARREL? Up until now, the NSF has largely avoided the congressional earmarks that burden the budgets of other agencies. Even though Congress relishes pork, the NSF tradition of awarding funds strictly on the basis of peer review has generally been honored. However, the National Science Board has approved more major research projects than the NSF budget can accommodate. Nothing wrong with that, there are a lot of good ideas out there. So by what peer review process does the NSF then decide which projects to include in its budget request? According to NSF's budget request for FY 03, "The Director selects from the group of NSB-approved projects." That's it? The Director selects? NSF Director Rita Colwell thinks this is a fine selection process, but according to this week's Nature, others see it as a threat to NSF integrity. Former APS President Jerome Friedman testified in May that NSF should submit a full list of approved projects in prioritized order, along with an explanation of the criteria. Otherwise it's an invitation to groups on the list to seek congressional help. 2. THE LAWS OF PHYSICS: IS LIGHT REALLY SLOWING DOWN? The media loves this kind of story. An Australian group led by Paul Davies says the speed of light has been slowing down. Hey, I mean what isn't? Actually, what they claim in this week's Nature is that there is cosmological evidence that the fine structure constant is slowly increasing. Since the effect on the laws of physics of increasing the electronic charge are too awful to contemplate, they figure light is going slower. That kills relativity, but my mail indicates nobody but physicists believe that stuff anyway. 3. ANTI-GRAVITY: WAS THIS THE LIGHTWEIGHT STORY OF THE YEAR? The Eastside Journal in Bellevue, WA, quotes a Boeing spokesman as saying the company is not funding any anti-gravity research (WN 2 Aug 02), nor is it attempting to duplicate Podkletnov's results. HA! Nick Cook warned us they would say that. He would say it's just disinformation, part of the massive government cover-up. 4. POLYGRAPH: THE CONVERSION OF SENATOR SHELBY. Outraged by lax security in the Wen Ho Lee case(WN 12 Mar 99), Shelby (R-AL) demanded polygraph testing of all weapons scientists, about 15,000. This time, Congress leaked a sensitive NSA phone intercept. Charged with finding the miscreant, the FBI wants a few key members of Congress to take a polygraph exam. Shelby is outraged again. "I don't know who among us would take a lie- detector test," Shelby roared. "First of all, they're not even admissible in court." 5. INTEGRITY IN SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH: ACADEMY REPORT SAYS ZZZZZZZ. Creating an environment that promotes responsizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY Opinions are the authors and are not necessarily shared by the University or the American Physical Society, but they should be. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Aug 10 19:07:13 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA14331; Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:06:09 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:06:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3D55C6D9.A6DA734 ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:07:21 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: Robert Park of APS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3BwBz2.0.kV3.HQSLz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47818 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: August 10, 2002 Vortex, I have received an inquiry on how to get in contact with Robert Park. I do not know him personally but I was able to find this: He is listed as: Robert L. Park The American Physical Society, Natl Press Bldg. 529 14th St. NW Ste 1050 Washinton D.C. 20045-2001 Ph. 202-662-8700 fax: 202-663-8711 email: park aps.org;DcmpFhpFps From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 11 18:28:15 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA07557; Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:27:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:27:37 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [209.249.70.164] From: "Mark Goldes" To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Fuel that is 50% water? Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:27:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Aug 2002 01:27:04.0499 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D8E0830:01C2419F] Resent-Message-ID: <"ye0c-1.0.vr1.8ymLz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47819 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Subject: water based fuel? >Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:44:59 -0400 > >Filipino Iventor Selling >Fuel That Is 50% Water >By Luz Baguioro >Philippines Correspondent >Straits Times (Singapore) >8-11-2 > >MANILA - Water as fuel may well have been dismissed as a foolish >proposition several years ago. Not anymore. >After nearly a quarter century of research, Filipino plant mechanic Rudy >Lantano has developed an industrial fuel composed of 40-50 per cent water, >50 per cent bunker oil and 5 per cent additives. >A cheaper and an environment-friendly alternative to bunker fuel, the Super >Bunker Formula-L is now being sold commercially to power factories, power >plants, boilers and generators. >'It is environmentally safe and could be the ultimate solution to global >warming,' Mr Lantano said recently. >The Department of Science and Technology (DOST) and the National Power >Corporation, the two government agencies which have tested the fuel, said >the water-based bunker fuel emits less pollutants and reduces ignition >smoke emission from 1,000 parts per million to 55 ppm. >'It causes less pollution, resulting in a cleaner and healthier >environment,' said the 60-year-old inventor, who was awarded the gold medal >by the World Intellectual Property Organisation in 1996 for his invention. >For the Philippines, which imports the bulk of its energy needs, the use of >hydro-bunker fuel could mean millions of dollars in savings. >Mr Lantano, whose research has been aided and endorsed by the government, >has also developed two other alternative fuel mixes: Alco-diesel and >Lan-gas. >Alco-diesel is a blend of hydrous ethyl alcohol and diesel fuel that can be >used to power compression engines. >Lan-gas, on the other hand, is a mixture of alcohol and petrol that can be >used to fuel spark-ignition engines. >Use of these alternative fuel mixes does not require changes in existing >engines, and, therefore, can be used for any vehicle, according to Mr >Lantano. >Private companies such as Pilipinas Shell Petroleum Corporation, which have >tested Alco-diesel in particular, said the fuel blend produces more engine >power and enables vehicles to accelerate faster and obtain more mileage per >litre of fuel. >The DOST estimates Alco-diesel, if available commercially throughout the >country, will save Manila from buying up to three million barrels of diesel >oil annually. >At present, the three types of alternative fuel are sold only in 12 Lan-gas >stations owned by Mr Lantano, and in stations managed by independent oil >retailers. >But in coming months, Mr Lantano is setting up plants in Thailand and in >the United States. >The American authorities have assured him that the US plant, to be built in >Maryland, will be exempted from paying any taxes. >An oil company in the United Arab Emirates has also approached him for a >possible tie-up. >Although multinational oil companies still dominate the oil market in most >parts of the world, Mr Lantano predicts global warming and the worsening >air pollution in urban areas would eventually jack up demand for >alternative and environment-friendly fuel. >Copyright 2002 Singapore Press Holdings. All rights reserved. >http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,1870,136861 > _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 12 00:19:16 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA29400; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 00:16:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 00:16:48 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 02:16:43 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Re: Fuel that is 50% water? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"tVG9I.0.HB7.W3sLz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47820 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Interesting article Mark. Unfortunately the link you provided didn't work. There was an American who claimed to have developed a fuel additive which allowed for the same thing with light petroleum, gas and diesel. I contacted him, he said that he was working with one of the big manufactures of engines. Anyway, I never heard from him again. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 12 13:00:41 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA12315; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:59:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:59:05 -0700 X-Sent: 12 Aug 2002 19:58:29 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812154446.00ac68d0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:59:18 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Fuel that is 50% water? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"jqou52.0.L03.9E1Mz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47821 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The subject of water + petrochemical fuel has come up several times over the years, here and in other discussion groups. People can look through the archives to find out more, although I don't recall the thread titles. Anyway, it is important to note that this technique has been widely used and it works for conventional reasons. People have often pointed out it was used during with WWII aircraft engines for an emergency overboost, and it tends to destroy engines unless they are designed for it. I presume the expanding water makes the ICE engine work partially as a steam engine, and the overall temperature of the exhaust gas is lower than it would be without water. There might be additional extra power from an anomalous source, which would be of interest here. I doubt that anyone has investigated the phenomenon in enough detail to establish that. Unless the anomalous power component was very large, it would be difficult to detect. An ICE is inefficient and makes a noisy calorimeter, so it is difficult to determine what is going on inside one. As I recall, Paul Pantone of GEET was working on a scheme with water added to fuel. I went to look this up and I found he has been in some difficulty lately. His web site is down, he has filed for bankrupcy, and Dennis Lee claims that *he* invented the technique, not Pantone. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 12 15:42:20 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25485; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:41:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:41:11 -0700 X-Sent: 12 Aug 2002 22:40:36 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812183412.032552e8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:41:33 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: LENR.org progress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"JHABe2.0.3E6.6c3Mz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47822 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: lenr.org/papers/ is now better organized, thanks to Ed Storms and Tim Perdue. We hope to add a keyword search before the number of papers becomes unwieldy. I have not added many papers lately, but some of the ones on there are long, such as the first Navy report. I have been sending messages to scientists asking pretty please to send me something, because conversion from paper is so time-consuming. I hope John Dash comes through with a lot of material soon, including perhaps papers from his high school students who do research every summer. Ed Storms wants to maintain high standards, but perhaps he will allow special dispensation for papers written by people under 18. If Dash comes through, it would be helpful if people here and elsewhere READ his stuff and send him a note of appreciation. We need enthusiastic responses to encourage other researchers to post papers. I may tackle Fleischmann's "Heat after Death" soon. Unfortunately it is on paper. (Large sheets he handed me years ago.) It has lots of hairy calorimetry, but you skip that and still see extraordinary results. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 12 16:24:21 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA12870; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:23:36 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:23:36 -0700 Subject: Chiao's new paper (gr-qc/0208024) To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 03:23:22 +0400 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"Twtut1.0.v83.sD4Mz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47823 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/gr-qc/0208024 Title: Conceptual tensions between quantum mechanics and general relativity: Are there experimental consequences, e.g., superconducting transducers between electromagnetic and gravitational radiation? Authors: Raymond Y. Chiao Hi, This papers appears as an expanded version of previous paper and also contain an analyses about the negative result of initial experiment. Regards, hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 13 07:35:04 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA15624; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:33:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:33:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812154446.00ac68d0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812154446.00ac68d0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:33:48 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Re: Fuel that is 50% water? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"Ee2D02.0.zp3.7ZHMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47824 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The subject of water + petrochemical fuel has come up several times >over the years, It's called charge densification. The expanding gas has more bulk to push against. It also lowers the flame temperature. >, and it tends to destroy engines unless they are designed for it. I >presume the expanding water makes the ICE engine work partially as a >steam engine, and the I agree. > >As I recall, Paul Pantone of GEET was working on a scheme with water >added to fuel. I had such great hopes for Paul. Someone forwarded a discussion group that was interested in GEET Technology, I soon realized that they were unable to replicated Paul's claims and consequently I lost interest. >Dennis Lee claims that *he* invented the technique, not Pantone. That figures. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 13 17:49:03 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA05933; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:48:06 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:48:06 -0700 Message-ID: <000701c2432c$2f40e7c0$0c3dee3f zanzibar> From: "Nick Reiter" To: Cc: "Bruce Reiter" , "Lori Schillig" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812154446.00ac68d0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> Subject: Radioactive fungi! Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:47:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"jJVey2.0.dS1.5ZQMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47825 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gentlemen, This is where biological transmutation of elements, nano-scale interactions, "life energy", Reich's Oranur effect, LENR, and fungi get together. It started out as an experiment that was more or less a total shot in the dark, but ended up producing an anomaly I really have serious trouble explaining - within any framework. Dr. Sam Faile got this one rolling. A few months ago, a troublesome mold or fungus got started in Sam's apartment in Cincinnati. Being a lot like many of us, he chose to do some experiments in culturing, to see just what this stuff was. After growing a quantity of it, he sent some out via a local medical center for analysis. Not totally identifiable, but similar to a variety of common gyromitra like fungi (?) or so he was told. After a lot of casual chat, we wondered whether fungi could be capable of biological transmutation of heavier unstable elements. Well, since I have some thorium and uranium compounds, and a trusty lab Geiger counter, I volunteered to try some testing. The results were strange, to say the least. I have a second more extensive round brewing right now... Enjoy... http://www.geocities.com/spfaile/RadioFungi.html NR From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 13 18:00:01 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA09971; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:59:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:59:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:59:23 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: UPDATE Anti Gravity Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ObKhj1.0.jR2.JjQMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47826 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Events and Items from (A) to (D) are well known .... the scope of this update is from from (E) onward and contains some measurements and observations from new work. A) When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet. B) When toast is dropped, it always lands with the buttered side facing down. C) Buttered Toast is Fastened to the Back of a Cat. The Buttered Side is aligned so as to be Upward when the Cat is normally standing on its feet. This is a Stable, Quiescent State. Cat Standing normally, Buttered Toast positioned with the Buttered side toward the Sky. D) Releasing the Cat-Toast from a nominal safe height of no greater than One (1) meter, the two will Hover, in a homeostatic condition inches above the ground. E) In general the height between Ground and a given Toast-Cat Binary is usually a distance that is somewhere between the length of the legs of the cat, and the longest distance across the toast in use, plus 66 percents. F) With a Giant Buttered Toast Cat Array, or, BUTTERCAR low energy tranportation is achievable today. G) Note: An array will usually function only for a short time, and this may be highly unpredictable. i] The longest period is usually until the Toast Begins to Dry out and would not have been good to eat anyway, even if it HAD landed buttered side down. ii] the shortest period is also the most unpredictable and is governed by: iii] when the cat becomes thirsty or hungry on the long side and iv] on the short side by if it becomes curious about a moth, fly, pea, bit of fluff or milkweed seed at which point the cat may become completely unpredictable. H) This second period is thought to be a possible starting place for faster than light or the so-called "Warp" drive of science fiction if the cat gets a catnip-cat crazy fit while in the hovering mode. So far external application of catnip to induce Warp has resulted in the Cat-Toast arrays simply zipping out of sight at a high rate of speed and following a completely unpredictable path. None of the "warp-cat-toast" arrays "gone-crazy", either Natural or Catnip induced have been lost or directly recovered. We simply do not know Where they Go. Fortunately the cats have always come back uninjured, sometimes with a moth or mouse as a "gift". More as it comes in. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 13 18:05:58 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA13317; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:05:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:05:25 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: zak newalexandria.org@mail.newalexandria.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000701c2432c$2f40e7c0$0c3dee3f zanzibar> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812154446.00ac68d0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <000701c2432c$2f40e7c0$0c3dee3f zanzibar> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:05:03 -0700 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: "Tz'Akh" Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"4ZA9G3.0._F3.LpQMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47827 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What were the proximity of the tubs in relation to each other? Also, hemp has shown to remediate heavy metal toxins. This work was done by research groups in Russia after Chernobyl blew. The Journal of Phytoremediation has more info on these lines though most of the good work is being done outside the US becuase of political pressures. Still, good work on this - though. I encourage you to publish your results - and please try to isolate the fungal species! thanks -Zak >Gentlemen, > >This is where biological transmutation of elements, nano-scale interactions, >"life energy", Reich's Oranur effect, LENR, and fungi get together. It >started out as an experiment that was more or less a total shot in the dark, >but ended up producing an anomaly I really have serious trouble explaining - >within any framework. > >Dr. Sam Faile got this one rolling. A few months ago, a troublesome mold or >fungus got started in Sam's apartment in Cincinnati. Being a lot like many >of us, he chose to do some experiments in culturing, to see just what this >stuff was. After growing a quantity of it, he sent some out via a local >medical center for analysis. Not totally identifiable, but similar to a >variety of common gyromitra like fungi (?) or so he was told. After a lot >of casual chat, we wondered whether fungi could be capable of biological >transmutation of heavier unstable elements. Well, since I have some thorium >and uranium compounds, and a trusty lab Geiger counter, I volunteered to try >some testing. The results were strange, to say the least. I have a second >more extensive round brewing right now... > >Enjoy... > >http://www.geocities.com/spfaile/RadioFungi.html > >NR From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 13 18:38:01 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25610; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:37:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:37:16 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01c24332$21d61820$0c3dee3f zanzibar> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020812154446.00ac68d0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com><000701c2432c$2f40e7c0$0c3dee3f@zanzibar> Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:30:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"G3Gwr3.0._F6.BHRMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47828 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The tubs were approximately one meter apart, covered with paper towels. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: Tz'Akh To: Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 12:05 AM Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! > What were the proximity of the tubs in relation to each other? > > Also, hemp has shown to remediate heavy metal toxins. This work was > done by research groups in Russia after Chernobyl blew. The Journal > of Phytoremediation has more info on these lines though most of the > good work is being done outside the US becuase of political pressures. > > Still, good work on this - though. I encourage you to publish your > results - and please try to isolate the fungal species! > > > > > thanks > -Zak > > >Gentlemen, > > > >This is where biological transmutation of elements, nano-scale interactions, > >"life energy", Reich's Oranur effect, LENR, and fungi get together. It > >started out as an experiment that was more or less a total shot in the dark, > >but ended up producing an anomaly I really have serious trouble explaining - > >within any framework. > > > >Dr. Sam Faile got this one rolling. A few months ago, a troublesome mold or > >fungus got started in Sam's apartment in Cincinnati. Being a lot like many > >of us, he chose to do some experiments in culturing, to see just what this > >stuff was. After growing a quantity of it, he sent some out via a local > >medical center for analysis. Not totally identifiable, but similar to a > >variety of common gyromitra like fungi (?) or so he was told. After a lot > >of casual chat, we wondered whether fungi could be capable of biological > >transmutation of heavier unstable elements. Well, since I have some thorium > >and uranium compounds, and a trusty lab Geiger counter, I volunteered to try > >some testing. The results were strange, to say the least. I have a second > >more extensive round brewing right now... > > > >Enjoy... > > > >http://www.geocities.com/spfaile/RadioFungi.html > > > >NR > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 13 18:38:39 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id SAA25948; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:38:13 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:38:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 21:38:32 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Nick Reiter cc: vortex-l eskimo.com, Bruce Reiter , Lori Schillig Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! In-Reply-To: <000701c2432c$2f40e7c0$0c3dee3f zanzibar> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HHDhl1.0.LL6.4IRMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47829 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Nick et al., Will you please perform some simple checks for us all so we can determine if the organisms are altering the RATE of DECAY or are altering the exposure or attenuation? A) Place the following series BETWEEN your detector head, the GM tube and the or Any thorium nitrate fixed sample: We are testing to see if physical distance or physical amount of simple organic matter is altering the number of counts by ATTENUATION due to DISTANCE and Organic Materials. To do the test you will use standard 3 by 5 file cards and place the cards between the SAMPLE and the DETECTOR and Record the results Test (1) Number of 3 by 5 cards Counts 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 Test (2) distance from Sample counts in mm (milli meters) 1 5 10 15 20 25 Test (3) Take ANY test material and (A) make a count IN THE container (B) remove the lid, make counts (C) remove and known amount, dry it WEIGH IT (D) Place it Directly against the counter Test (4) with any know non moving sample place the sample directly UNDER the counting head ... and then move the material sideways byt fixed amounts... to account fo the biological organism physically transporting distance side ways in mm 5, 10 15 20 25 50 finally, Take the Entire amount of a test.... completely DRY it Weight it measure out the exact same amount of thorium nitrate you started out with at the beginning... DRY If they are the EXACT SAME WEIGHT then homogenize the two samples Separately and measure Radioactive counts at fixed distance of 5 mm IF they are NOT the same weight.... then weigh out enough additional organic materials in the form of dry soy milk... and homogenize completely until your control test has the same amount of dry soy milk as the sample you THINK has different counts... and make measure, ==============+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ AT THE VERY LEAST Do the 3 by 5 card test AND: Make SURE you use the total dried material which are supposed to have altered radioactivity are mixed with DRIED material of the SAME KIND... ie soy milk to arrive at the EXACT same concentration.... So you now have thorium nitrate and soymilk that has been in growth AND Thorium nitrate and soymilk that has NOT been in growth at the EXACT same concentration.... AND at the EXACT SAME WEIGHT then homogenize the two samples +++Separately +++ and measure Radioactive counts at fixed distance of 5 mm in a DRY state.... Then let us know... you MUST remove the possible artifact of water and-or organic material and or DISTANCE altering the counts.... Just as is done in any professional lab... I KNOW from speaking with Sam Faile he would rather have REAL data than a possible artifact. On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Nick Reiter wrote: > > Gentlemen, > > This is where biological transmutation of elements, nano-scale interactions, > "life energy", Reich's Oranur effect, LENR, and fungi get together. It > started out as an experiment that was more or less a total shot in the dark, > but ended up producing an anomaly I really have serious trouble explaining - > within any framework. > > Dr. Sam Faile got this one rolling. A few months ago, a troublesome mold or > fungus got started in Sam's apartment in Cincinnati. Being a lot like many > of us, he chose to do some experiments in culturing, to see just what this > stuff was. After growing a quantity of it, he sent some out via a local > medical center for analysis. Not totally identifiable, but similar to a > variety of common gyromitra like fungi (?) or so he was told. After a lot > of casual chat, we wondered whether fungi could be capable of biological > transmutation of heavier unstable elements. Well, since I have some thorium > and uranium compounds, and a trusty lab Geiger counter, I volunteered to try > some testing. The results were strange, to say the least. I have a second > more extensive round brewing right now... > > Enjoy... > > http://www.geocities.com/spfaile/RadioFungi.html > > NR > > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 13 22:49:29 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA27546; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:42:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:42:27 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Cc: "Nick Reiter" Subject: RE: Radioactive fungi! Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:56:39 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000701c2432c$2f40e7c0$0c3dee3f zanzibar> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"1xxxs1.0.Jk6.2tUMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47830 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Nick. Sounds exciting! Is it possible that the fungus, in the process of fixing nitrogen, is somehow taking the radioactive salt along with it and incorporating it into some part of itself? You should separate out the different components in the growth media and see where the radioactive compound is ending up. My guess, is it's ending up in the spores (frown). K. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Reiter [mailto:reit ezworks.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:48 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Cc: Bruce Reiter; Lori Schillig Subject: Radioactive fungi! Gentlemen, This is where biological transmutation of elements, nano-scale interactions, "life energy", Reich's Oranur effect, LENR, and fungi get together. It started out as an experiment that was more or less a total shot in the dark, but ended up producing an anomaly I really have serious trouble explaining - within any framework. Dr. Sam Faile got this one rolling. A few months ago, a troublesome mold or fungus got started in Sam's apartment in Cincinnati. Being a lot like many of us, he chose to do some experiments in culturing, to see just what this stuff was. After growing a quantity of it, he sent some out via a local medical center for analysis. Not totally identifiable, but similar to a variety of common gyromitra like fungi (?) or so he was told. After a lot of casual chat, we wondered whether fungi could be capable of biological transmutation of heavier unstable elements. Well, since I have some thorium and uranium compounds, and a trusty lab Geiger counter, I volunteered to try some testing. The results were strange, to say the least. I have a second more extensive round brewing right now... Enjoy... http://www.geocities.com/spfaile/RadioFungi.html NR From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 03:52:28 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA11917; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 03:51:39 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 03:51:39 -0700 Message-ID: <001001c24380$8335a100$3c3dee3f zanzibar> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 06:51:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"RTIYQ2.0.5w2.wOZMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47831 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks, Keith, >From what I can tell, and this is following suite with this next test round as well, the rise in CPM seems to correlate with the point where a mat of mycelae (is that spelled right?) forms, quite a while before spores develop. But I am the first to admit that I do not, either by hobby or profession, work with this stuff. Molds, spores, and fungus, that is (apologies to Egon Spengler). One of the reasons I chunked and stirred the tubs in the end was to try to disperse any stratification. I will say that it DID appear as though the higher CPM were right over the larger shredded portions of the fungal mat, but was hard to tell. So my guess is that it is being incorporated to some extent. Thorium is an interesting emitter, from what Sam found. It is primarily very energetic alpha, with some higher energy X-rays. I need to figure this in as well. Best, NR ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Nagel To: Cc: Nick Reiter Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:56 AM Subject: RE: Radioactive fungi! > Hi Nick. > > Sounds exciting! > > Is it possible that the fungus, in the process of > fixing nitrogen, is somehow taking the radioactive > salt along with it and incorporating it into some > part of itself? > > You should separate out the different components in > the growth media and see where the radioactive compound > is ending up. > > My guess, is it's ending up in the spores (frown). > > K. > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 07:08:58 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA29870; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:08:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:08:05 -0700 From: BVicknair bjservices.com Subject: Re: Fuel that is 50% water? To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.7 March 21, 2001 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:10:25 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on LNGW1/BJSUSA/BJSERVICES(Release 5.0.7 |March 21, 2001) at 08/14/2002 09:04:58 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"AN0RV2.0.QI7.4HcMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47832 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have followed this for a number of years. The water provides some waste heat recovery, improvement of volumetric efficiency and possibly a touch of Graneau mist explosions. Usually additives are required for proper flame propagation. bv From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 07:30:45 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA08560; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:29:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:29:46 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:29:16 -0700 From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! To: vortex Message-id: <004601c2439e$f874e7a0$0a016ea8 cpq> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"RXHKK.0.M52.ObcMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47833 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Nick & Keith, > Is it possible that the fungus, in the process of > fixing nitrogen, is somehow taking the radioactive > salt along with it and incorporating it into some > part of itself? Yes. I think the answer to both the increased radiation counts and the increased decay rate (as indicated by the steep curve) will turn out to be a similar situation to that found with a common home test that the makers of sensitive radiation detectors suggest. The answer involves, not the uptake of nitrogen per se, but the natural concentration of "radon daughters," present in many locations especially those where shale or granite is a normal soil constituent. The concentration itself can occur coincidentally with the uptake of nitrogen. The simple test that can be found online - as well as decay curves that match the one you found with the fungi. The test simply involves wiping a computer screen with tissue and measuring the rate against the background. You will often find a similar concentration of radon daughters on computer screens caused by electrostatic attraction, and wiping the screen will concentrate this collection process so that you can get over several hundred CPM plus the similar curve that indicates that you are collecting isotopes with a very short half-life (namely radon daughters). The curve you found is almost proof-positive of radon daughters. There used to be tables for this on the Aware site: http://www.aw-el.com/ > This is where biological transmutation of elements, nano-scale interactions, > "life energy", Don't think this situation is related to biological transmutation so much as radon, but Ed Storms recently provided a very interesting post on transmutation research, a few months back, it's probably in the archive. Regards, Jones Beene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 11:46:59 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA13717; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:46:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:46:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:45:40 -0700 From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! part deux To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <005e01c243c2$ca260180$0a016ea8 cpq> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <004601c2439e$f874e7a0$0a016ea8 cpq> Resent-Message-ID: <"iHcoi2.0.5M3.mLgMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47834 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a little more information on one mechanism whereby some plants and other materials can and do "naturally" concentrate the small amount of environmental radioactivity found in soils up to dangerous levels. This information cames from several threads that appeared on the internet a few years back when it was discovered that the tobacco leaf itself, apart from its other toxic properties, concentrates radon - more of a problem if phosphate fertilizer has been utilized. BTW this concentration of radioactivity is one of the reasons that chewing tobacco (esp. if leafy, fresh and minimally processed) can be far more carcinogenic than other forms. The mechanism is as follows: Radon and other volatile species diffuse from the ground due to the natural decay of uranium and/or thorium. Soils with high levels of shale, granite, or where phosphate fertilizers are used can be radioactive (1-100 or more ppm of actinides) but this won't necessarily be picked up by the standard (cheap) GM detectors - plus- in the decay chain, there are certain volatile species (aka "daughters"): isotopes of radon, xenon, polonium etc. whose half life may be 10^10 or more shorter than the U or Th. These will most definitely show up on any GM detector when concentrated. As the radon decays it of course becomes charged. The charged atom will attach to small airborne particles called Aiken particles. The particle then assumes the charge of the radon daughter. Now, the underside of the tobacco leaf (or possibly some part of the fungi) has many fine, hair like appendages which results in a large surface area for charged particle attachment. The charged Aiken particles become attached to this "fuzz" and radioactivity becomes concentrated this way. Processing and air drying over extended periods can eliminate some of the problem as radon daughters decay rapidly - seconds to days. I suspect that fungi in question here also have some structural analog to the fuzz structure of tobacco but maybe there may be an alternative mechanism for radon concentration that is completely different than this one. If your growth medium is high in phosphates, it most likely will have enough actinides to start off the concentration process, even if the medium itself doesn't register on your GM instrument (it will register on a laboratory instrument - but also remember that radon is found in many unsuspecting locations, especially basements in "coal country," natural gas...even in the Capitol in D.C. (because of all the granite). Poetic justice, I'd say. Jones From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 13:41:08 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA10308; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:40:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:40:00 -0700 X-Sent: 14 Aug 2002 20:32:44 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814163247.02b73468 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:33:44 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: OFF TOPIC Helpful medical information site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"K9BXd2.0.yW2.V0iMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47835 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Your taxes paid for this. You might as well make good use of it: http://medlineplus.gov/ - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 13:57:31 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA19128; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:56:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:56:18 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: UPDATE Anti Gravity [OFF TOPIC} Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 06:55:41 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <9ugllusvltre6o9om8ti5lviutre13q5lq 4ax.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id NAA19091 Resent-Message-ID: <"yo7Cr3.0.ng4.nFiMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47836 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to John Schnurer's message of Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:59:23 -0400: Hi, [snip] > Fortunately the cats have always come back uninjured, sometimes with a > moth or mouse as a "gift". BTW cats can be quickly cured of the habit of bringing home "gifts". The trick is to get a shovel (or equivalent), and in plain sight of said cat, and while it is watching, pick up said gift with the shovel, and hurl it a great distance. The cat then quickly gets the message that it's "gifts" are not appreciated, and no more will be forthcoming. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 14:14:44 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA27546; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:14:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:14:02 -0700 X-Sent: 14 Aug 2002 21:13:27 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814170701.02b7eef8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:13:14 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: [OFF TOPIC] Cats and/or mice In-Reply-To: <9ugllusvltre6o9om8ti5lviutre13q5lq 4ax.com> References:

Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"xGUQc.0.Ik6.PWiMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47837 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > Fortunately the cats have always come back uninjured, sometimes with a > > moth or mouse as a "gift". >BTW cats can be quickly cured of the habit of bringing home "gifts". Why would you want to "cure" this? Don't discourage this behavior! I used to have a cat, and now I have mice instead. Cats are way better. You want them to catch mice. It is easier to deal with dead mice the cat brings in than dead mice in traps. That's why people domesticated cats in the first place. (Sort of domesticated -- it would be more accurate to say we arranged the world for their benefit.) - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 14 19:03:43 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA20858; Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:02:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 19:02:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000f01c243ff$cd7c6bc0$0c3dee3f zanzibar> From: "Nick Reiter" To: References: <004601c2439e$f874e7a0$0a016ea8 cpq> <005e01c243c2$ca260180$0a016ea8@cpq> Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! part deux Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 22:02:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Resent-Message-ID: <"45EJQ.0.m55.BlmMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47838 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jones, Thanks very much for the enlightening details. This is a wealth of information, and I will copy and send it off to Sam - triggering some discussion I'm sure. When the current experiment gets further along, I will report. Again, thank you. NR ----- Original Message ----- From: Jones Beene To: Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Radioactive fungi! part deux > Here is a little more information on one mechanism whereby some plants and > other materials can and do "naturally" concentrate the small amount of > environmental radioactivity found in soils up to dangerous levels. > > This information cames from several threads that appeared on the internet a few > years back when it was discovered that the tobacco leaf itself, apart from its > other toxic properties, concentrates radon - more of a problem if phosphate > fertilizer has been utilized. > > BTW this concentration of radioactivity is one of the reasons that chewing > tobacco (esp. if leafy, fresh and minimally processed) can be far more > carcinogenic than other forms. > > The mechanism is as follows: Radon and other volatile species diffuse from the > ground due to the natural decay of uranium and/or thorium. Soils with high > levels of shale, granite, or where phosphate fertilizers are used can be > radioactive (1-100 or more ppm of actinides) but this won't necessarily be > picked up by the standard (cheap) GM detectors - plus- in the decay chain, there > are certain volatile species (aka "daughters"): isotopes of radon, xenon, > polonium etc. whose half life may be 10^10 or more shorter than the U or Th. > These will most definitely show up on any GM detector when concentrated. > > As the radon decays it of course becomes charged. The charged atom will attach > to small airborne particles called Aiken particles. The particle then assumes > the charge of the radon daughter. Now, the underside of the tobacco leaf (or > possibly some part of the fungi) has many fine, hair like appendages which > results in a large surface area for charged particle attachment. The charged > Aiken particles become attached to this "fuzz" and radioactivity becomes > concentrated this way. > > Processing and air drying over extended periods can eliminate some of the > problem as radon daughters decay rapidly - seconds to days. > > I suspect that fungi in question here also have some structural analog to the > fuzz structure of tobacco but maybe there may be an alternative mechanism for > radon concentration that is completely different than this one. > > If your growth medium is high in phosphates, it most likely will have enough > actinides to start off the concentration process, even if the medium itself > doesn't register on your GM instrument (it will register on a laboratory > instrument - but also remember that radon is found in many unsuspecting > locations, especially basements in "coal country," natural gas...even in the > Capitol in D.C. (because of all the granite). > > Poetic justice, I'd say. > > Jones > > From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 15 08:07:01 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA02932; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:05:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:05:03 -0700 From: Erikbaard aol.com Message-ID: <191.b8b0543.2a8d1cf3 aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:04:19 EDT Subject: alfalfa to harvest gold To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Resent-Message-ID: <"t7Bga3.0.hj.UCyMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47839 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Scientists use alfalfa plants to harvest nanoparticles of gold Research News Release : 14-Aug-2002 < http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-08/su-sua081402.php > Ordinary alfalfa plants are being used as miniature gold factories that one day could provide the nanotechnology industry with a continuous harvest of gold nanoparticles. An international research team from the University of Texas-El Paso and Mexico advanced the work at the Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Laboratory. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 15 08:24:28 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA10439; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:23:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:23:41 -0700 X-Sent: 15 Aug 2002 15:23:05 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020815111524.02be6c70 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:20:24 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: alfalfa to harvest gold In-Reply-To: <191.b8b0543.2a8d1cf3 aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"S8A7r1.0.0Z2.yTyMz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47840 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: That's marvelous, but it might weaken the plants. Arthur Clarke predicted a similar technique in the novel "Imperial Earth" (Chapter 32) in which coral harvests gold from seawater. This takes so much metabolic effort the coral is left vulnerable to disease, so the technique is never cost effective. He based this on the fact that sponges and oysters can extract iodine and vanadium from sea water even though they occur in very low concentrations. In this case, the alfalfa would be in a controlled environment, so even if it is a weak hybrid it would survive. I have read about several projects in which plants (usually fast growing trees) have been used to extract heavy metals or petrochemicals from toxic waste sites. It is much cheaper & more effective than mechanical processing. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 15 11:36:34 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA15793; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:34:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:34:40 -0700 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:35:00 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex , Schnurer Subject: Ammonia Absorption Air Conditoning Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"p-eSs2.0.hs3._G_Mz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47841 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear People, Please: Q: Does anyone know WHO manufactures Ammonia Absorption Air conditoning in USA or for use in USA? OR A good reference for same SIZE is 7 ton or plus commercial Thank you, JH From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 15 13:09:34 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA31344; Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:08:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 13:08:22 -0700 From: Keasy aol.com Message-ID: <190.b8a9d43.2a8d640e aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 16:07:42 EDT Subject: Re: UPDATE Anti Gravity [OFF TOPIC} To: vortex-l eskimo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_190.b8a9d43.2a8d640e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 256 Resent-Message-ID: <"2ETBY.0.cf7.se0Nz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47842 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --part1_190.b8a9d43.2a8d640e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/14/02 9:00:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvanspaa bigpond.net.au writes: > BTW cats can be quickly cured of the habit of bringing home "gifts". > The trick is to get a shovel (or equivalent), and in plain sight of said > cat, and while it is watching, pick up said gift with the shovel, and hurl > it a great distance. The cat then quickly gets the message that it's > "gifts" are not appreciated, and no more will be forthcoming. > I have no doubt this will probably work -- my question is: what is the likely very interesting story behind how this bit of feline understanding was acquired? Ken --part1_190.b8a9d43.2a8d640e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/14/02 9:00:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvanspaa bigpond.net.au writes:

BTW cats can be quickly cured of the habit of bringing home "gifts".
The trick is to get a shovel (or equivalent), and in plain sight of said cat, and while it is watching, pick up said gift with the shovel, and hurl it a great distance. The cat then quickly gets the message that it's "gifts" are not appreciated, and no more will be forthcoming.

I have no doubt this will probably work -- my question is: what is the likely very interesting story behind how this bit of feline understanding was acquired?

Ken --part1_190.b8a9d43.2a8d640e_boundary-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 16 06:36:00 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id GAA18333; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:35:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:35:20 -0700 Subject: need help on spectrum analyzer decision To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: hamdix verisoft.com.tr Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:35:04 +0400 Message-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"qFfxU1.0.IU4.O-FNz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47843 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, I am trying to find an used spectrum analyzer on the web, searching mostly on ebay. I had actually bought a TEK 492 but CRT was dead and returned to seller. There are lot of HP models covering 22GHz, but I had never an experince with an spectrum analyzer and dont know critical points. I need some help and advise on selecting a proper device for my needs: - high range - high sensitivity - less number of bands - fast sweeping range with low resolution TEK 492 said having 80dB dynamic range and also said -120dBm sensitivity. Is these figures are correct? -120dBm is 1/1000 of 1pW! I also saw from pictures that some HP models have very fine resolution. but on TEK 492 its is said resolution is %20 of its selected bandwidth. I am not familiar fith spwec. analyzers and I not understand clearly what tey means. I prefer your mails off the list. hamdi ucar From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 16 15:16:38 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02366; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:14:48 -0700 From: Jones Beene Subject: Naval CF plating technique To: vortex Message-id: <003201c24572$55d66f20$0a016ea8 cpq> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"RsWya.0.ua.6cNNz" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47845 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Attention! Formerly disheartened garage LENR experimenters, Dust off your mothballed electrolysis rig! The CF electroplating technique announced by Dr. Frank Gordon's Navy research team is said to be fast, simple and repeatable. Some paraphrased details, Unlike the original Fleischmann-Pons experiment using a palladium rod, Dr. Gordon uses an electroplating technique to speed things up. He uses palladium chloride, heavy water and a copper wire mesh electrode. When a small current is applied, the palladium plates out on the negative electrode along with deuterium, resulting in very high deuterium loading PLUS the palladium phase change necessary to see the F-P effect, but with excess heat coming in hours instead of days or weeks. He is able to generate first the alpha AND then the beta phases sequentially as the thickness of the palladium layer is growing. The beta phase in palladium together with high loading appears to be the key to the success of this technique. Palladium chloride is available from: http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/ Variation #1: "Lithium Palladium Sol. No. 3" is also available from the same supplier and can be added judiciously to supply Li as a catalyst in the Pd matrix. Variation #2: If you believe that R.Mills hydrino theory explains at least some CF results, then Cesium Chloropallidite Sol. No. 3 which is also available from Bostick, could possibly give even better results (cesium being a better Mill's catalyst than lithium). If the results Dr. Gordon claims are as repeatable as he says, it wouldn't surprise me to see additional breakthroughs coming from someone's garage, even a high school science fair project ;-) BTW it was difficult to restrain the urge to title this post "contem-plating the naval"... From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 16 15:16:50 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA02336; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC] Cats and/or mice Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 08:10:00 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References:

<9ugllusvltre6o9om8ti5lviutre13q5lq@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020814170701.02b7eef8@mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020814170701.02b7eef8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx2.eskimo.com id PAA02250 Resent-Message-ID: <"k3KSn.0.Na._bNNz" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47844 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:13:14 -0400: Hi, [snip] >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > > Fortunately the cats have always come back uninjured, sometimes with a >> > moth or mouse as a "gift". >>BTW cats can be quickly cured of the habit of bringing home "gifts". > >Why would you want to "cure" this? Don't discourage this behavior! I used >to have a cat, and now I have mice instead. Cats are way better. You want >them to catch mice. It is easier to deal with dead mice the cat brings in >than dead mice in traps. That's why people domesticated cats in the first >place. (Sort of domesticated -- it would be more accurate to say we >arranged the world for their benefit.) > >- Jed It doesn't discourage them from catching mice, only from sharing their catch with you. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 16 17:29:54 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA03103; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:28:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:28:44 -0700 Message-ID: <3D5D9973.2A15F01D ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:31:47 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Aug 16, 2002] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fJpPq2.0.Pm.xYPNz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47846 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: What's New for Aug 16, 2002 Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 17:13:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "What's New" To: aki ix.netcom.com WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 16 Aug 02 Washington, DC 1. COOK BOOK: "FRESH AIR" OFFERS A RECIPE FOR STALE BALONEY. Two weeks ago, WN dumped as much cold water as one page can hold on the anti-gravity nonsense stirred up by Nick Cook's goofy book, "The Hunt for Zero Point." We braced for sensational stories in the National Enquirer and on Art Bell, but where does Cook turn up? Gasp, on NPR's Fresh Air. "I am not a scientist," Nick Cook admits in a brilliant understatement,"but I enlisted some help." So who did he enlist? "There are scientists working right on the cutting edge...Dr.Hal Puthoff is pioneering this whole zero point energy field..." Well, there's a name we know. One of the first scientists to vouch for spoon-bender Uri Geller, Puthoff headed the CIA's remote viewing program, and is said to have sent his own mind to explore the surface of the planet Mercury (WN 11 Mar 94). Guest host Barbara Bogaev, who also is not a scientist, asks how anti-gravity machines work? They all spin, Nick Cook explains. "Some theories say if you spin this zero point energy field that exists all around us, some weird and magical things start popping out, one of which is an anti-gravitational effect." There you have it -- an authoritative explanation on NPR. 2. NASA WAGER: PASCAL IS ALIVE AND WELL AND LIVING IN HUNTSVILLE. Research managers at Marshall Space Flight Center still dream of the payoff if the Podkletnov gravity shield worked. Marshall scientists who are willing to talk, give it no chance at all. 3. HERBAL HIGHS: "NATURAL" IS NOT A SYNONYM FOR SAFE. The 1994 Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act, passed in response to a massive lobbying campaign by the supplement industry, turned the clock back a hundred years to the days of the traveling snake-oil salesmen. It exempted "natural" dietary supplements from proof of safety, efficacy, or purity. The only requirement is that they not be promoted as preventing or treating disease (WN 7 Jan 00). Not to worry, backers such as Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) insisted. If any problems show up, the FDA can take a supplement off the market. How does the FDA do this? They must go to court to demonstrate that the substance is harmful. "When the bodies start piling up," as one FDA official put it. Well, in the case of ephedra, the pile of bodies is higher than anyone knew. The leading supplier of ephedra, Metabolife International, was required to report all consumer complaints of bad reactions to the FDA. But it now turns out that the company had more than 1300 undisclosed complaints involving ephedra, about 80 of which involved death or serious injury. Ephedra is a herbal stimulant, sold on the internet as herbal "Ecstacy," the street drug it chemically resembles. The FDA has fought unsuccessfully to ban ephedra for years. The Department of Justice has now undertaken a criminal investigation of Metabolife, but the real solution is to repeal the 1994 Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY Opinions are the author's an are not necessarily shared by the University or the American Physical Society, bu they should be. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Aug 17 17:11:03 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id RAA32195; Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:10:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 17:10:05 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: nanotechnology Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:07:51 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id RAA31728 Resent-Message-ID: <"qCHQI.0.ns7.PNkNz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47847 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, In order for this technology to be economical, it needs to be self replicating. It is too small to see with the naked eye. Imagine a "disease" that is so foreign to the immune system, that it hasn't a snowflake's hope in hell of coping with it. Imagine a nanobot smart enough to replicate, but too stupid to know that it is replicating in the wrong environment (your body). Imagine that this plague covers the entire planet. Can you think of a more effective way of wiping out the ENTIRE human race? http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20020723-045503-5590r Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 18 11:54:34 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA00939; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:53:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:53:35 -0700 Message-ID: <001101c24701$5828bf40$024eccd1 asus> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: Subject: Re: nanotechnology Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:49:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"vkKRN2.0.UE.kq-Nz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47848 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin said: > Hi, > > In order for this technology to be economical, it needs to be self replicating. But with needed raw materials, like hyperpure silicon > > It is too small to see with the naked eye. And it can't gravel very far or fast. > > Imagine a "disease" that is so foreign to the immune system, that it hasn't a snowflake's hope in hell of coping with it. A heatlhy immune system has an inventory of everything that "belongs" and attacks or encapsulates anything that "not-belong", ust like humans do. > > Imagine a nanobot smart enough to replicate, but too stupid to know that it is replicating in the wrong environment (your body). What will it use for raw material? Nature already has such stuff, called viruses, prions, bacteria, etc. Replication doesn't require smarts. > > Imagine that this plague covers the entire planet. > > Can you think of a more effective way of wiping out the ENTIRE human race? > > http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20020723-045503-5590r > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. > I think we are safe for a while yet. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 18 12:32:18 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA13307; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:31:27 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:31:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:31:31 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Parksie's latest tirade Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"-M4qZ3.0.rF3.EO_Nz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47849 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Parksie's latest column so infuriated me that I wrote this with the intention of sending it to his boss. Dear Sir; In my humble opinion, IMHO, the APS deserves better in a spokesperson than Robert Park. In his latest tirade he attacked Hal Puthoff, and spoon bending. It is redundant to mention that Hal Puthoff has a PhD in physics, or that he is the Patentee of a system for utilizing nonorthogonal energy, or that during his tenure at the Stanford Research Institute, Hal was instrumental in the development of what is now called Technical Remote Viewing, TRV. I think that the record of the intelligence bonanza secured for our government by TRV speaks for itself. It is enough to mention that he has coauthored a series of five articles which have been published in the Physical Review. Those articles speculate about the interaction of physical reality with the Energy of the Vacuum or Dirac's Zitterbewegung. Not content to stop with attacking Dr. Puthoff, Dr. Parks went on to attack spoon bending. For several years it was my privilege to be tutored by the Late Otto Schmitt. During our conversations, Otto related to me the story of Yuri Geller's visits to his laboratory. During those visits, Yuri instructed Otto in spoon bending. Now again, it is redundant to mention, that Otto had three PhD's, or his numerous inventions, or that he was a member of the National Academy of Sciences, it is sufficient to say that he retired as the Chairman of the University of Minnesota's Biophysics Department. I regard Otto's word as unimpeachable. He told me that with Yuri's help he massaged the spoon until it got warm and soft, and at that point it was possible to cause to bend freely. It is one of my greatest regrets, that I didn't find out about Hal Puthoff's work in the development of TRV until after Otto's death, he would have been very impressed. I hope to hear that you have replaced this boor. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 18 14:12:15 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA16215; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:09:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:09:05 -0700 X-Sender: rmuha mail Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:09:00 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: ralph muha Subject: [Off Topic] Park frightened by mind-reading technology Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA16193 Resent-Message-ID: <"XlRSu2.0.Hz3.mp0Oz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47850 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: [I found this link on the Drudge Report... -- r] http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020817-704732.htm NASA plans to read terrorist's minds at airports By Frank J. Murray THE WASHINGTON TIMES Airport security screeners may soon try to read the minds of travelers to identify terrorists. Officials of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration have told Northwest Airlines security specialists that the agency is developing brain-monitoring devices in cooperation with a commercial firm, which it did not identify. Space technology would be adapted to receive and analyze brain-wave and heartbeat patterns, then feed that data into computerized programs "to detect passengers who potentially might pose a threat," according to briefing documents obtained by The Washington Times. NASA wants to use "noninvasive neuro-electric sensors," imbedded in gates, to collect tiny electric signals that all brains and hearts transmit. Computers would apply statistical algorithms to correlate physiologic patterns with computerized data on travel routines, criminal background and credit information from "hundreds to thousands of data sources," NASA documents say. [...] "We're getting closer to reading minds than you might suppose," says Robert Park, a physics professor at the University of Maryland and spokesman for the American Physical Society. "It does make me uncomfortable. That's the limit of privacy invasion. You can't go further than that." "We're close to the point where they can tell to an extent what you're thinking about by which part of the brain is activated, which is close to reading your mind. It would be terribly complicated to try to build a device that would read your mind as you walk by." The idea is plausible, he says, but frightening. [...] copyright © 2002 News World Communications, Inc. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 18 19:45:40 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA24159; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 19:44:52 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 19:44:52 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: nanotechnology Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 12:44:18 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <0sm0muc5dqeu1eljjtrgvsn8f4kibde240 4ax.com> References: <001101c24701$5828bf40$024eccd1@asus> In-Reply-To: <001101c24701$5828bf40$024eccd1 asus> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA24134 Resent-Message-ID: <"t470R2.0.Pv5.ak5Oz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47851 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Mike Carrell's message of Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:49:38 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Robin said: > > > >> Hi, >> >> In order for this technology to be economical, it needs to be self >replicating. > >But with needed raw materials, like hyperpure silicon Which it is likely eventually to be able to produce, itself, from raw materials. (Assuming it is based on silicon). >> >> It is too small to see with the naked eye. > >And it can't gravel very far or fast. That depends on what it hitches a ride on. (Which could be pretty much any surface). >> >> Imagine a "disease" that is so foreign to the immune system, that it >hasn't a snowflake's hope in hell of coping with it. > >A heatlhy immune system has an inventory of everything that "belongs" and >attacks or encapsulates anything that "not-belong", ust like humans do. True, but nevertheless, it is used to dealing with protein based assailants. Just knowing that something is foreign doesn't necessarily mean that you are able to combat it. >> >> Imagine a nanobot smart enough to replicate, but too stupid to know that >it is replicating in the wrong environment (your body). > >What will it use for raw material? That depends on what it is made of. >Nature already has such stuff, called >viruses, prions, bacteria, etc. Replication doesn't require smarts. So much the worse. It means we will get into trouble sooner. >> >> Imagine that this plague covers the entire planet. >> >> Can you think of a more effective way of wiping out the ENTIRE human race? >> >> http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20020723-045503-5590r >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Robin van Spaandonk >> >> http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ >> >> Competition provides the motivation, >> Cooperation provides the means. >> >I think we are safe for a while yet. >Mike Carrell > Yes, until someone actually gets the technology to work. What are we going to do when every step we take, and everything we touch, picks up nanobots? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 18 20:47:05 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11388; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:46:05 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:46:05 -0700 From: ConexTom aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 23:44:50 EDT Subject: Natural force fields to protoct Earth and its Citizens! To: Roundtable7 yahoogroups.com, Wangus@yahoogroups.com, aelewis@provide.net, mediator mint.ocn.ne.jp, drboylan@sbcglobal.net, prj@mail.msen.com, vortex-l eskimo.com CC: ConexTom aol.com, tom@rhfweb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b8.2c28a41a.2a91c3b2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Resent-Message-ID: <"3YRv22.0.mn2.yd6Oz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47852 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --part1_b8.2c28a41a.2a91c3b2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The natural force fields of positive conscious belief are very powerful, and a few individuals who believe in positive and lighter energies, and ideas, can create a natural spiritual positive force field for thousands of people to protect a small town and nation. I received an email from a Buddhist artist in Japan which gives numerical numbers for the energy levels of consciousness for a person and whole societies. Most societies are around the range of 4.0 in terms of consciousness energy levels; whereas, after a person reads a sacred Buddhist text, the conscious energy level may raise to 14. Therefore individuals such as Buddhist monks, artists, and positive thinkers, may have their positive conscious energy levels around 14, whereas the rest of society may be around 4. And if one enlightened person or artist meditates daily, then they can also raise the consciences of the community, and the audience of their thoughts, to a higher positive energy level, so that a few Buddhist monks or artists in a town, can raise the conscious energy level or mental and spiritual force field of the town from 4 to 14. A positive ethical Hollywood movie can raise the consciousness of the whole nation that watches the movie, whereas a negative violent movie can lower the consciousness of a whole nation, and therefore popular media is very important in developing powerfull positive force fields to protect nations and communities. In a sense, our modern Hollywood of today, is not protecting the USA cultures or the world cultures in terms of media force fields, when it focuses on negative violent Hollywood movies, since these media movies lowers the consciousness of the masses, and may weaken the will power and natural force fields that may defend and define Earths future for those societies. I believe the Lord of the Rings movie just, made, has a positive energy force field near 14, and so do the books written by J.R.R. Tolkien. Most of the citizens I have spoken with that watched the Lord of the Rings movie watched it several times, which indicates that most citizens want better positive movies like the Lord of the Rings, but Hollywood is not focusing on profit as motives to make movies presently, but rather politics, otherwise it would be making more positive movies and making more money, as well as defending the safety of Earth's future. In addition, to the natural force fields, which can be just as powerful as mechanical force fields, it should be helpful to develop small portable mechanical force fields for citizens and artists, to amplify their natural mental and spiritual force fields as well as stated above. I am very interested in developing nanotechnologies, which may be used to easily create such portable force fields as mentioned above in rings, and pendants, by using nano-magnetic particles in a metal to pull in natural environmental energies, and then filter them through a nano amplifying circuit, with programmed variable frequencies in the nano-circuit, by a computer, which has a software program to tailor the frequencies signatures in the nano-circuit for each specific person based on their basic conscious goals, biological health, and spiritual energy signatures, which need to be amplified, and then set up to mask out all unhealthy or unwanted energies or frequencies form the environment. In fact, Bell Labs just recently patented a nano-technology see-saw zero point energy device to pull in energies from the environment, to be used in nano-technologies to power them. Therefore, these above force field goals can presently be built in small rings and pendants, with present nanotechnologies, but such products are not commercially available yet. Respectfully, Thomas Clark tom@rhfweb.com www.rhfweb.com\personal --part1_b8.2c28a41a.2a91c3b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The natural force fields of positive conscious belief are very powerful, and a few individuals who believe in positive and lighter energies, and ideas, can create a natural spiritual positive force field for thousands of people to protect a small town and nation.

I received an email from a Buddhist artist in Japan which gives numerical numbers for the energy levels of consciousness for a person and whole societies. Most societies are around the range of 4.0 in terms of consciousness energy levels; whereas, after a person reads a sacred Buddhist text, the conscious energy level may raise to 14. Therefore individuals such as Buddhist monks, artists, and positive thinkers, may have their positive conscious energy levels around 14, whereas the rest of society may be around 4. And if one enlightened person or artist meditates daily, then they can also raise the consciences of the community, and the audience of their thoughts, to a higher positive energy level, so that a few Buddhist monks or artists in a town, can raise the conscious energy level or mental and spiritual force field of the town from 4 to 14.

A positive ethical Hollywood movie can raise the consciousness of the whole nation that watches the movie, whereas a negative violent movie can lower the consciousness of a whole nation, and therefore popular media is very important in developing powerfull positive force fields to protect nations and communities.
In a sense, our modern Hollywood of today, is not protecting the USA cultures or the world cultures in terms of media force fields, when it focuses on negative violent Hollywood movies, since these media movies lowers the consciousness of the masses, and may weaken the will power and natural force fields that may defend and define Earths future for those societies. I believe the Lord of the Rings movie just, made, has a positive energy force field near 14, and so do the books written by J.R.R. Tolkien. Most of the citizens I have spoken with that watched the Lord of the Rings movie watched it several times, which indicates that most citizens want better positive movies like the Lord of the Rings, but Hollywood is not focusing on profit as motives to make movies presently, but rather politics, otherwise it would be making more positive movies and making more money, as well as defending the safety of Earth's future.

In addition, to the natural force fields, which can be just as powerful as mechanical force fields, it should be helpful to develop small portable mechanical force fields for citizens and artists, to amplify their natural mental and spiritual force fields as well as stated above. I am very interested in developing nanotechnologies, which may be used to easily create such portable force fields as mentioned above in rings, and pendants, by using nano-magnetic particles in a metal to pull in natural environmental energies, and then filter them through a nano amplifying circuit, with programmed variable frequencies in the nano-circuit, by a computer, which has a software program to tailor the frequencies signatures in the nano-circuit for each specific person based on their basic conscious goals, biological health, and spiritual energy signatures, which need to be amplified, and then set up to mask out all unhealthy or unwanted energies or frequencies form the environment. In fact, Bell Labs just recently patented a nano-technology see-saw zero point energy device to pull in energies from the environment, to be used in nano-technologies to power them. Therefore, these above force field goals can presently be built in small rings and pendants, with present nanotechnologies, but such products are not commercially available yet.

Respectfully,

Thomas Clark
tom@rhfweb.com
www.rhfweb.com\personal

--part1_b8.2c28a41a.2a91c3b2_boundary-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 18 22:02:50 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA06717; Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:02:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:02:01 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: nanotechnology Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 01:16:20 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <0sm0muc5dqeu1eljjtrgvsn8f4kibde240 4ax.com> Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"Bj5N22.0.te1.9l7Oz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47853 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Robin. >Yes, until someone actually gets the technology to work. >What are we going to do when every step we take, and everything we touch, picks up nanobots? >Robin van Spaandonk This is a good example of misapplication of technology. I doubt you could engineer a mechanical device to be more efficient and able to thrive in the environment than the living cell. Millions of years in R&D makes it the most perfect machine on the planet. Our tech pales in comparison. Biological viruses, prions and bacteria already exist, and no miniature socket set is required to work on them. But, I like the new microengineered accelerometers. Biting the apple... K. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 19 19:02:33 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA31170; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:00:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:00:40 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [12.79.32.247] From: "David Howe" To: vortex-L eskimo.com Subject: Re: Parksie's latest tirade Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:00:06 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Aug 2002 02:00:06.0223 (UTC) FILETIME=[4E0F1DF0:01C247ED] Resent-Message-ID: <"-8I3D.0.pc7.6BQOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47854 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: From: thomas malloy Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:36:35 >Parksie's latest column so infuriated me that I wrote this with the >intention of sending it to his boss. > >Dear Sir; > > In my humble opinion, IMHO, the APS deserves better in a spokesperson >than Robert Park. In his latest tirade he attacked Hal Puthoff, and spoon >bending. ROTFL!! Please, please do send this to Park's boss. I'm sure he'd get quite a chuckle! _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 19 19:11:53 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA03145; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:10:42 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:10:42 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:10:50 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Re: Parksie's latest tirade Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id TAA03102 Resent-Message-ID: <"EeK2d2.0.3n.XKQOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47855 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >From: thomas malloy >Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:36:35 > >>Parksie's latest column so infuriated me that I wrote this with the >>intention of sending it to his boss. >> >>Dear Sir; >> >> In my humble opinion, IMHO, the APS deserves better in a >>spokesperson than Robert Park. In his latest tirade he attacked Hal >>Puthoff, and spoon bending. > > >ROTFL!! > >Please, please do send this to Park's boss. I'm sure he'd get quite a >chuckle! Why? > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. >http://www.hotmail.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 19 19:57:15 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id TAA21690; Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:56:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:56:37 -0700 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 19:55:57 -0700 From: Jones Beene Subject: 21 kev x-ray peak - Is this a CF signature? To: vortex Message-id: <001101c247f5$1c3cc720$0a016ea8 cpq> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"KBHTk1.0.qI5.b_QOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47856 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some observations of the implications of the Navy Lab report: http://bitops.com/~mathias/tr1862/html/volume1/volume1.html In assessing what constitutes adequate "proof" for any new phenomenon, every scientist or experimenter has certain tolerance/comfort levels based on the particular testing technique and available test equipment. For LENR, finding a more "skeptic proof" testing method is possible if certain higher energy phenomena such as x-rays or extreme UV are detectable. It is pretty hard for the skeptic to explain away the presence of x-rays in low voltage experiments. Better yet, high energy radiation, when found in addition to nuclear ash and OU calorimetry provides three pronged evidence - very hard for the skeptic to explain away. Unfortunately, many CF experimenters have indeed made cursory checks for x-rays but have failed to find them -or at least in anywhere near enough intensity to explain their excess heat. Now, it appears that one answer as to why this absence should be the case is appearing. In the past, it seems, experimenters may have been looking for the wrong kind (spectrum) of x-rays, because for one thing, they were taught that nuclear reactions typically produced radiation in the harder spectra - plus, the proper equipment to find the moderate energy (soft) variety had been comparatively rare and/or far more expensive or difficult to use effectively. The soft x-ray spectrum is below the borderline threshold window for most detectors, and once the standard GM detector showed nothing, the search was often abruptly dropped. This is one of many reasons why the results from Dr. Frank Gordon's Navy team seem exciting. Not only have they provided what looks like good calorimetry, but also they have found helium ash, tritium and, unlike most other researchers, have done soft x-ray testing, including spectroscopy work, and discovered a range of radiation that simply shouldn't be there. Moreover, they have developed a cost effective technique for finding soft x-rays. Note: Although these are "soft" x-rays and they would not show up in chemical reactions - and are even well above the EUV range that Randell Mills has discovered for the hydrino, at the same time this radiation is many times less energetic than the x-rays normally associated with nuclear reactions: in other words, kind of in a gray area, except that this spectra has been associated with tritium decay. Few GM detectors have a decent threshold for recording10-30 kev photons outside a CF cell, and in most experiments almost none of these photons would ever escape the electrolysis cell to begin with, as they are stopped by glass and thin metal, so one needs to locate the actual testing probe itself INTO the cell directly adjacent to an active electrode. To accomplish this, the Gordon team chose to use an old technique, x-ray film - which is a real pain to arrange and locate very near the electrodes - and few use film anymore, but in the hands of qualified technicians is said to be more reliable than all but the best high-end spectrometers. It is interesting that they seem to have found a fairly broad range of soft x-radiation with a peak from the cell at around 21 Kev and these soft x-rays are something like 70 sigma over background. This finding to me is major... but they don't play it up much or even try to explain it very well. Can anyone explain this radiation as anything other than evidence for nuclear reactions, including some tritium decay? Can the film be fooled? In scouring the internet for the significance of the exact peak, 21 kev, I was led to medical journals where it is stated that a rare isotope of palladium, manufactured in a reactor, is sometimes used in nuclear medicine because it emits a particularly soft x-ray. The isotope is Pd-103 and yes, you guessed it, this baby emits a 21 kev x-ray. Exactly what the Gordon team appears to have discovered as a peak in their electrolysis cell. Could this isotope indeed be one of the significant contributors of CF excess heat, or is it just limited to this particular design of CF cell, or is it purely coincidental? Most importantly, if this isotope is the culprit, how was it formed? No neutrons are seen by the Navy team but helium and tritium are found. 103Pd has a 17 day half life and is of course not found in any commercial palladium. Palladium has natural isotopes at 102,104, 105, 106, 108 and 110. I suppose one could get pretty wild imaginatively and say that 102Pd somehow "borrowed" a neutron directly from a deuteron (see "Deuteron Tunneling at electron-volt Energies". G.S. Collins, J.S. Walker and J.W. Norbury, Journal of Fusion Energy, vol.9, pg.409 (1990)... after all, the 102Pd isotope (only 1% of natural) can be described as abnormally "light"...or alternatively, maybe 106Pd somehow fissions off a triton due to the matrix interactions with deuterium (Ha, not likely) ,...or maybe if Pd-105 somehow absorbed a deuteron and then shed an alpha, you could get to 103 by way of 107Ag and 105Rh, except that is, the silver is stable at 107 and you would have a big .5 Mev rhodium beta that should be showing up but isn't, so what could be the precise pathway? Because of the high levels of tritium and almost total lack of free neutrons, and no hard x-rays, is it possible that some more exotic and previously undescribed reaction could be going on - perhaps a three body reaction that goes something like: 102Pd somehow catalyzing a deuteron pair to fuse to form a triton and then keeping the left-over neutron!! Whatever the precise nuclear reaction(s) may turn out to be, one would hope that other experimenters would make an effort to look for this particular soft x-ray signature... if found elsewhere, one wonders if 21 kev should not be one of the best markers, even indisputable proof, for at least one component (of perhaps many) of the broader phenomenon known as cold fusion. regards, Jones Beene BTW it should be possible to discover whether 102Pd could be the starting point for the soft x-ray - that is, if the experimenter could obtain a sample isotopically enriched in 102. It should then perhaps show a higher flux of 21 kev x-rays than natural palladium under similar conditions. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 20 09:11:44 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA05551; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:10:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:10:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3D626A55.7090706 rtpatlanta.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:12:05 -0400 From: "Terry Blanton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Segway Speculation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_cSRo.0.eM1.7ecOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47857 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-954339.html Rumors: Segway isn't really Ginger By Graham Hayday Special to ZDNet August 19, 2002, 7:37 AM PT URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-954339.html In the latest twist to the long-running Ginger saga, it's now being rumored that the two-wheeled device unveiled by inventor Dean Kamen last December isn't in fact the real deal. According to a posting on the 'ginger-chat.com ' site, the Segway Human Transporter (SHT for short) cannot be the same thing as the much-hyped mystery invention originally known as Ginger and IT. The claim revolves around inconsistencies between the description of Ginger contained in publicity for a book written by journalist Steve Kemper and the actual scooter-like invention. There are also some alleged patent irregularities. The book is yet to hit the shelves, but back in January 2001 Kemper let it be known that such figures as Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos believed the invention would radically change the way we live. Then Segway was unveiled--and the world said: 'Is that it?' Since then, ginger-chat site administrator 'Spliff' has examined Kemper's book proposal in some detail, and has taken a fine-tooth comb to the patents Kamen has registered, and found significant evidence to suggest Segway is not the thing which blew Bezos and Jobs away. Kemper's book proposal seems to suggest that Kamen began work on Segway in 1995, but no serious development took place until 1998. And yet a patent for a similar device was filed in 1994. As Spliff writes: "US patent number 5,701,965 shows an early variation of the Segway Human Transporter, similar to the one later found in the newer Segway scooter patents. THIS patent was filed on May 27, 1994. And my timeline shows that Kamen first conceived GINGER around December 1995." Another posting on the ginger-chat site points out that the series of images of the machine on the official Segway.com site changed subtley in June this year. Originally, there was a bloke standing on the now-familiar two-wheeled scooter now, there is one image which appears to be the same bloke floating above the ground. This has reignited all the original speculation that the invention is some kind of personal hovercraft. The conspiracy theorists also claim Bob Metcalfe, founder of 3Com and someone not known for participating in hoaxes, also claims to have seen Ginger--and says it's not Segway. Metcalfe told the New York Times earlier this year: "Some months ago when speculation was running high, I said that Kamen's IT was more important than the Internet, but not as important as cold fusion, had cold fusion worked out. The IT I was talking about, which I did not disclose, was NOT Segway. That's all I can say." (See www.nytimes.com/2001/12/20/technology/circuits/20DIAR.html - registration re quired.) However, this could still be more hot air. And the Ginger story has already contained more than enough of that. So to conclude: there is no conclusion... but when/if there is one, we'll let you know. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 20 09:27:43 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA12622; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:26:26 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:26:26 -0700 X-Sent: 20 Aug 2002 16:25:52 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020820122046.00acd4c8 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:26:57 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com, vortex From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: 21 kev x-ray peak - Is this a CF signature? In-Reply-To: <001101c247f5$1c3cc720$0a016ea8 cpq> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"u0cKo1.0.453.nscOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47858 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones Beene wrote: >Unfortunately, many CF experimenters have indeed made cursory checks for >x-rays but have failed to find them -or at least in anywhere near enough >intensity to explain their excess heat. Now, it appears that one answer >as to why this absence should be the case is appearing. > >In the past, it seems, experimenters may have been looking for the wrong >kind (spectrum) of x-rays . . . That's a little unfair to past experimenters. 1. Many researchers *did* find soft x-rays before the Navy group did. Most of them used x-ray film. Years ago several Italian groups presented evidence as convincing as this. 2. It is difficult to detect these x-rays, because even a little electrolyte stops them. Researchers understood that years ago. They were not carelessly missing the x-rays, or looking in the wrong place. They knew the x-rays are difficult to detect, so many did not try. Having said that, I agree the Navy people did a fine job. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 20 10:36:55 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA16525; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:35:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:35:35 -0700 From: ConexTom aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:34:22 EDT Subject: Miniature Holographic Personal Force Field Chip Component Specifications ! To: DEACH topica.com, drboylan@sbcglobal.net, thebishop@usadatanet.net, mediator mint.ocn.ne.jp, prj@mail.msen.com, Roundtable7 yahoogroups.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, Wangus yahoogroups.com, newsonline@bbc.co.uk, economicaffairs parliament.uk, reader@guardian.co.uk, bain3@pdq.net, Noreal016 aol.com CC: ConexTom aol.com, tom@rhfweb.com, aelewis@provide.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ce.2b47564f.2a93d79e_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 Resent-Message-ID: <"tOogn.0.624.dtdOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47859 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: --part1_ce.2b47564f.2a93d79e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Specifications for the miniature (micro, nano, biological and quantum) chip components of a prototype portable force field which may be the size of a bracelet that can be placed on the arm, leg, or a belt posted at http://www.rhfweb.com/ljpff1.html or Privacy, Health, Force Field and Shielding Technologies. 1. Energy and Wave Sensors, Collector Wave Guides, and Buffers. Wave and energy collector cones pass wave and energy information to the energy and wave sensors such as infrared and scalar magnetic wave sensors similar to high speed infrared video cameras. An energy buffer to filter out local high energies beyond the capacity of the Mueller magnetic motor to prevent the motor from burning out the magnets. The wave and energy information collected about the local energy matrix from the local environment and from the physical body of the user may be sent to the force field processor, data base chips and cold plasma/gas/biological/holographic energy wave generator chips by means of a biofeedback communication loop and data bus made of fiber optic materials or laser radio or infrared wave communication paths. 2. Power Source Parallel Series of Miniature Over-Unity Fly Wheel Magnetic Mueller Motors or a similar type of alternative energy power source. 3. Feedback Communication Loop And Data Bus Biofeedback communication loop and data bus made of fiber optic materials or laser radio wave communication paths. 4. Programmable Force Field Wave Form Processor A series of wave, energy, and holographic media processor chips to analyze incoming energy and wave data, and to generate new wave, energy, and holographic data force field information. A Fourier wave analyzer chip and fractal data compression chips may also be used to analyze and compress the incoming wave information. 5. Programmable Data Base, Operating System, and Software Program Holographic biological wave information of the user and artificial intelligent expert wave processing rules shall be stored on a data memory chip to be used by the force field processors and wave generators, to analyze, and generate the structure of the holographic force field waves and energies. A miniature operating system and program, to synchronize the operations of the processor and the other chips as well as process information. An infrared communication loop to pass information from a portable computer to input and output user programming and biological data to a user program on a computer. Fractal image compression algorithms to compress and decompress data. Image, wave, energy, media, and holographic processing and generation algorithms. 6. A Series of Force Field Wave Generator Chips A series of Tesla Vacuum and Gas bulb scalar wave generations chips to generate scalar magnetic gravity waves, and a series of ordinary generic wave generation chips such as Shrodinger or Dirac's wave modeling and generation algorithms to simulate and generate all forms of waves, energies, and energy holograms. 7. Magnetic Wave Amplifier A series of magnets, and capacitors to amplify the waves and energies. 8. Wave Guides Wave guides and wave communication paths: A series of wave guides and channels such as wave cones and low and high frequency holographic infrared laser wave channels or wave tubes to carry and guide the biological wave and energy sensor and enhancer waves to the body of the user to preserve local bodily health, genetic, and biological frequencies and energies specific to the user by means of a biofeedback loop. A second wave guide to guide the counter jamming and filtering force field waves and energies, at a range of a few feet around the user to form a protective local holographic cold plasma force field energy bubble. 9. Protective Metal Casings Protective inner metal casings with an internal anti-proton/matter force field to protect the components of the portable force field device and a protective outer metal casing to protect the user form the internal metal casing. I may consider using a niobium magnetic metal or metglass with a anti-matter force field nanotechnology chemical structure or a simple miniature holographic wave force field generated by the inner force field device for the inner casings force fields, and a simple polished metal for the outer casing. Further Research and Development: Details of the digital and analogue logical chip and electrical components schematics, and overall mechanical schematics of the above components are being researched and developed. www.rhfweb.com Respectfully, Radiation Health Foundation Inc. at www.rhfweb.com President Thomas Clark tom rhfweb.com www.rhfweb.com\personal --part1_ce.2b47564f.2a93d79e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Specifications for the miniature (micro, nano, biological and quantum) chip         components of a prototype portable force field which may be the size of a bracelet that can be placed on the arm, leg, or a belt posted at http://www.rhfweb.com/ljpff1.html or Privacy, Health, Force Field and Shielding Technologies.

1. Energy and Wave Sensors, Collector Wave Guides, and Buffers.

Wave and energy collector cones pass wave and energy information to the energy and wave sensors such as infrared and scalar magnetic wave sensors similar to high speed infrared video cameras.

An energy buffer to filter out local high energies beyond the capacity of the Mueller magnetic motor to prevent the motor from burning out the magnets.

The wave and energy information collected about the local energy matrix from the local environment and from the physical body of the user may be sent to the force field processor, data base chips and cold plasma/gas/biological/holographic energy wave generator chips by means of a biofeedback communication loop and data bus made of fiber optic materials or laser radio or infrared wave communication paths.

2. Power Source

Parallel Series of Miniature Over-Unity Fly Wheel Magnetic Mueller Motors or a similar type of alternative energy power source.

3. Feedback Communication Loop And Data Bus

Biofeedback communication loop and data bus made of fiber optic materials or laser radio wave communication paths.

4. Programmable Force Field Wave Form Processor

A series of wave, energy, and holographic media processor chips to analyze incoming energy and wave data, and to generate new wave, energy, and holographic data force field information. A Fourier wave analyzer chip and fractal data compression chips may also be used to analyze and compress the incoming wave information.

5. Programmable Data Base, Operating System, and Software Program

Holographic biological wave information of the user and artificial intelligent expert wave processing rules shall be stored on a data memory chip to be used by the force field processors and wave generators, to analyze, and generate the structure of the holographic force field waves and energies.

A miniature operating system and program, to synchronize the operations of the processor and the other chips as well as process information.

An infrared communication loop to pass information from a portable computer to input and output user programming and biological data to a user program on a computer.

Fractal image compression algorithms to compress and decompress data. Image, wave, energy, media, and holographic processing and generation algorithms.

6. A Series of Force Field Wave Generator Chips

A series of Tesla Vacuum and Gas bulb scalar wave generations chips to generate scalar magnetic gravity waves, and a series of ordinary generic wave generation chips such as Shrodinger or Dirac's wave modeling and generation algorithms to simulate and generate all forms of waves, energies, and energy holograms.

7. Magnetic Wave Amplifier

A series of magnets, and capacitors to amplify the waves and energies.

8. Wave Guides

Wave guides and wave communication paths:

A series of wave guides and channels such as wave cones and low and high frequency holographic infrared laser wave channels or wave tubes to carry and guide the biological wave and energy sensor and enhancer waves to the body of the user to preserve local bodily health, genetic, and biological frequencies and energies specific to the user by means of a biofeedback loop.

A second wave guide to guide the counter jamming and filtering force field waves and energies, at a range of a few feet around the user to form a protective local holographic cold plasma force field energy bubble.

9. Protective Metal Casings

Protective inner metal casings with an internal anti-proton/matter force field to protect the components of the portable force field device and a protective outer metal casing to protect the user form the internal metal casing. I may consider using a niobium magnetic metal or metglass with a anti-matter force field nanotechnology chemical structure or a simple miniature holographic wave force field generated by the inner force field device for the inner casings force fields, and a simple polished metal for the outer casing.

Further Research and Development:

Details of the digital and analogue logical chip and electrical components schematics, and overall mechanical schematics of the above components are being researched and developed.

www.rhfweb.com

Respectfully,

Radiation Health Foundation Inc. at www.rhfweb.com
President Thomas Clark
tom rhfweb.com
www.rhfweb.com\personal
--part1_ce.2b47564f.2a93d79e_boundary-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 20 11:50:57 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA20349; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:46:07 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:46:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: rick mail.highsurf.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:45:53 -1000 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Rick Monteverde Subject: Re: Miniature Holographic Moneymaking Idea! Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id LAA20323 Resent-Message-ID: <"PpJG01.0.tz4.lveOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47860 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: That reads like the output from one of those Cuisinart text generator programs where you hand it a vocabulary and some basic grammer templates and click 'frappe'. On the other hand, I suppose if you bought one it could help you be more effective and successful in helping that poor fellow from Nigeria get his $20M safely moved into a foreign account. Good luck on your secret mission! ;) - Rick Monteverde, Honolulu Hawaii >Specifications for the miniature (micro, nano, biological and quantum) >chip components of a prototype portable force field which may be the size of a > <...> From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 21 05:38:55 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id FAA31222; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:38:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:38:00 -0700 Message-ID: <001601c24928$5e5148a0$8379ccd1 asus> From: "Mike Carrell" To: References: <001101c247f5$1c3cc720$0a016ea8 cpq> Subject: Re: 21 kev x-ray peak - Is this a CF signature? Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:35:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"cE1nB3.0.id7.dcuOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47861 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jones has often presented critical comments on this forum. I want to acknowledge his fairness in highlighting this item from the Navy report, which I had missed in reading it. As a point of comparison, a 25" TV picture tube is operated with and accelerating potential of about 27 kV and generates X-rays which are absorbed by lead in the thick faceplate glass. Mike Carrell From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 21 10:37:45 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20435; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:36:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:36:45 -0700 X-Sent: 21 Aug 2002 17:36:06 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821133629.02c09650 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:37:23 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: "Cold Fusion Lives" interview continues in EVWorld Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"sPxO8.0.3_4.i-yOz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47862 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The second part of this interview has been published: http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=393 Pretty good! Szpak & Mosier-Boss are top-notch. We have a couple of their papers on the site: http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/MilesICCF-9.pdf http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/TR1862Placeholder.pdf - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 21 14:19:05 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA15447; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:18:11 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:18:11 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Standing Bear To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Antigravity researchers should publish Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:18:08 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <82.1f72fd1f.2a807922 aol.com> In-Reply-To: <82.1f72fd1f.2a807922 aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"swnu5.0.Hn3.JE0Pz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47863 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Monday 05 August 2002 20:58, Erikbaard aol.com wrote: > Boeing statement: > > "The recent report that we are [involved in anti-grav research] is based on > a misinterpretation of information. For instance, GRASP is not a codename > for a current project but rather an acronym for a presentation entitled > "Gravity Research for Advanced Space Propulsion," in which a Boeing > engineer explains Podkletnov's theory and proposes that we should continue > to monitor this work and perhaps even conduct some low-cost experiments to > further assess its plausibility. No steps have been taken beyond this point > by Boeing." Magazine article referred to ongoing Boeing work in their 'Phantom Works'. If this was going on, as one who has worked with the government, I say to you that such work would be classified above top secret. Even the name would be 'black', and denyability would be the order of the day. Standing Bear rockcast earthlink.net From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 22 01:04:46 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA09207; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:58:44 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:58:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 02:58:10 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: pretty pictures from space Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"SCs7_.0.iF2.pc9Pz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47864 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dale Pond posted this URL on the SVP group. They have quite the collection of links. http://www3.cosmiverse.com/news/space/0802/space08140201.html From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 22 08:12:00 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA26575; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:11:08 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:11:08 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: Hamdi bounces Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2R5Ji2.0.5V6.CyFPz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47865 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Mail to Hamdi Ucar is bouncing From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 22 08:13:12 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA27272; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:12:23 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:12:23 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:12:33 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: Hamdi Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/REPORT; REPORT-TYPE=delivery-status; BOUNDARY="===========================_ _= 4363098(17011+434100544)" Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"3aLkK3.0.Mf6.DzFPz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47866 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --===========================_ _= 4363098(17011+434100544) Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: Here is the error message. This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: Your message was not delivered because the destination computer was not reachable within the allowed queue period. The amount of time a message is queued before it is returned depends on local configura- tion parameters. Most likely there is a network problem that prevented delivery, but it is also possible that the computer is turned off, or does not have a mail system running right now. The queue containing messages destined for mailbox-ankara.ttnet.net.tr was expired by the Postmaster of venus1.ttnet.net.tr. The following recipients did not receive your message: Please reply to Postmaster venus1.ttnet.net.tr if you feel this message to be in error. --===========================_ _= 4363098(17011+434100544)-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 23 09:09:27 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA08575; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:06:38 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:06:38 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:06:53 -0400 (EDT) From: John Schnurer To: Vortex Subject: test Hmmmm you can read it if you want... it should test Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"S5_1R2.0.D52.AsbPz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47867 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Test From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 23 10:27:12 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA23664; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:25:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:25:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:24:57 -0700 From: Jones Beene Subject: Re: 21 kev x-ray peak - Is this a CF signature? To: vortex-l eskimo.com Message-id: <003101c24aca$012d7240$0a016ea8 cpq> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: Resent-Message-ID: <"M7UjC3.0.an5.S0dPz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47868 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A couple of further thoughts and speculation on some of the implications of the excellent Navy Lab CF report: http://bitops.com/~mathias/tr1862/html/volume1/volume1.html To recap a tentative conclusion that can be drawn from the report (although the authors have not gone this far): *A peak soft x-ray emission has been documented at 21 kev and no other explanation serves to identify this radiation signature better than the well-known emission of 103 Pd, which is not a natural isotope and must have been created during the operation of the cell.* >From that point on, the speculation and possible answers are increasingly controversial, but let's assume that if there were any free neutrons at all in the cell, then the Navy team would have found some of them - consequently, can we find some plausible way that the 103Pd could have been created from natural Pd isotopes: 1) without any free neutrons 2) without the characteristic high energy absorption-gamma (~.5 Mev) 3) with tritium and helium ash and with a 21 kev photon peak being the best evidence of what happened. What follows is admittedly a most far-out fringe speculation that has emerged from an ongoing dialog with Fred Sparber based on Mills' hydrino theory. First off, I thought someone might challenge this following conclusion, made at the end of the previous post: "Because of the high levels of tritium and almost total lack of free neutrons and no hard x-rays, is it possible that some more exotic and previously undescribed reaction could be going on - perhaps a three-body reaction that goes something like: 102Pd somehow catalyzing a deuteron pair to fuse to form a triton and then keeping the left-over neutron" Now, on the surface this wouldn't seem to be plausible at all because if a triton were fused in the typical D+D reaction (and this happens all the time with a threshold of 35 kev), then we don't have a neutron left over - it is a proton. However that outcome would not necessarily be the case if one of the deuterons was "shrunken" far below ground state. Here is where the path gets very slippery because even R. Mills doesn't seem to acknowledge the possibility of the deuterino (as opposed to a hydrino) any more, at least not publicly (perhaps it is an intellectual property issue for him). Several members of this forum don't believe in the Mills' BLP theory but believe in cold fusion - but many observers believe that both phenomena could be related to some degree. Therefore, for the sake of argument, let's ask what might happen if a deuteron begins to shrink far below ground state in the heavily loaded palladium matrix of a cold fusion cell. I think that one way this reaction could play out is that you would have a "deuterino deuteride," rather than the bare deuterino in the Pd matrix - i.e. a deuterino and its fractionally charged electron paired with a normal deuteron, and this pair would somehow react occasionally with palladium in a three body reaction to give the triton and 103Pd but without the free neutron or gamma. The absorption-gamma is absent because of the energy depleted by the shrinkage. The deuterino itself would have to be very near to "collapse" i.e. near the state where it wants to become 2 neutrons by capturing its own "light electron" or some other light lepton from the matrix. Stepwise shrinkage down to such a level may even be accelerated in a solid matrix. One of the many problems with this accounting (even if there is such a thing as the deuterino) is that 102 Pd is only 1% of natural palladium, so unless it enters into the reaction preferentially, there should be a lot of unseen isotopic shifts. But, it is not unusual for one isotope to have a cross section for neutrons that is much higher - for instance, with 10 boron the ratio is greater than 500,000 to one, but does this fact alone also indicate that "deuterino tunneling," if it exists, would be likewise favored by a particular isotope? 102 Pd does have a very unusual resonance curve for neutrons: http://hpngp01.kaeri.re.kr/cgi-bin/w3graf?n=Pd102&l=n&m=102 You will notice that at neutron energy of a few hundred ev, the cross section spikes to over a 1000 barns. Would this spike relate in the same manner to deuterino tunneling? OK, let's leave that bit of wild speculation to fester, or until someone can come up with a more promising alternative hypothesis, but let's not forget that no matter how the 103 Pd got there, it could be there...at least, because of the excellent work of the Gordon team, it is fair to assume that it could be real. So, let's continue realizing that: 1) Many if not most theorists believe there is probably more than one LENR reaction responsible for the excess heat in CF experiments, probably several low probability reactions that go on simultaneously. 2) However, if ANY nuclear reaction, any bona fide nuclear reaction at all, can be established beyond reasonable scientific doubt, then the whole field of LENR would stand to benefit significantly from both the standpoint of respectability and more importantly from the standpoint of *funding* vis-a-vis the more established fields. To that end, and given the tentative finding of the Navy research team that a peak soft x-ray can be found at 21 kev and the belief that nothing can explain this exact radiation signature better than the well-known emission of 103 Pd, then it seems that an expedited protocol for experimentation is obvious. If several, or several dozen, experiments corroborate the Navy finding....? I say "expedited" because- if one dispenses with calorimetry and uses the basic electroplating setup of the Navy team, then this experiment INCLUDING primitive x-ray spectroscopy can be carried out for not much more expense than taking the family to a pro football game. Although few standard radiation detectors have a decent threshold for 21 kev photons because of the thickness of the window or tube wall, you can work wonders with a few $dollar's worth of dental x-ray film, or a few photodiodes and filters PLUS, unlike what the Gordon team did, you don't have to worry about the tricky placement of the film inside the cell, adjacent to an electrode. This is possible because of 103 Pd having a 17 day half-life. That outcome, if it is indeed the reality of the present phenomenon, was apparently not anticipated by the Navy team, as they chose the difficult placement technique of the film inside the cell - but if 103Pd is the culprit, its relatively long half-life insures that the setup proposed here can be one helluva lot simpler - as you can dispense with the complicated interior film placement altogether. Basically, all one needs to do is to start the Pd plating reaction going for several hours. A thermocouple can announce the onset of excess heat. Shortly thereafter, the experimenter can shut off the cell, remove the negative electrode, wrap it with x-ray film for a predetermined time, or use a homemade photodiode detector and then test. Of course - a real x-ray spectrometer would be nice... if you have one sitting around. Many permutations of this basic protocol are obvious. The question of whether 103 Pd is involved in CF should be relatively easy to prove or disprove beyond reasonable scientific doubt !! If 103 Pd is involved, then the whole field of CF could benefit because there will be absolute PROOF of a real nuclear reaction, not muddied by eviquivocation -as the skeptics still claim some delayed chemical reaction buildup, or some tritium contamination issue. Although many CF proponents have been saying that we already have enough proof now, there are still too many doubters, far too many, among the general scientific community. No honest skeptic can rationalize away a clear x-ray signal which is found at the precise signature of a well-known non-natural emitter, especially should it be found by many different experimenters. In an ironic twist, we may owe this bit of potential luck (i.e. that a well-known marker with a unique x-ray signature just happens to be a palladium isotope) to the haunting fear of many middle aged men - prostate cancer... (that is where 103 Pd is used as the preferred chemotherapy treatment). The bottom-line remains: whatever the precise nuclear reaction(s) found by the Navy team may turn out to be, one would hope other experimenters would make an effort to look for this particular soft x-ray signature, or any other, in their own work... if found in a wide number of varying experiments, then 21 kev could turn out to be the best identifier, even indisputable proof, for at least one component of cold fusion. Regards, Jones Beene From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Fri Aug 23 14:28:22 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA28573; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:27:25 -0700 Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:27:25 -0700 Message-ID: <3D66A89C.7880EC5 ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:26:52 -0700 From: Akira Kawasaki X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vortex Subject: [Fwd: What's New for Aug 23, 2002] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bsxpv1.0.G-6.yYgPz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47869 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: What's New for Aug 23, 2002 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 16:31:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "What's New" To: aki ix.netcom.com WHAT'S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 23 Aug 02 Washington, DC 1. MISSILE DEFENSE: RUMSFELD DISCOVERS CRUISE MISSILES. So far we've spent maybe $95B trying to stop ballistic missiles, but it's not going too well (WN 14 Jun 02). The solution? Find a missile that's easier to stop. According to the Washington Post, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld sent the White House a classified memo warning that cruise-missile technology is the really big threat these days. The low-flying, air-breathing missiles are hard to detect and hard to distinguish from friendly aircraft, but the technology to defeat them already exists. All it would take is a lot of money. Hey, this is looking better and better. The prospect of an entire new defense system that costs a bundle is likely to prove irresistible to the superhawks in Congress. 2. AIRPORT SECURITY: DOES NASA PLAN TO READ YOUR MIND? A story on the front page of Saturday's Washington Times claimed NASA is working on a device to read terrorists minds at airports. NASA would use "non-invasive neuro-electric sensors" to pick signals up from the heart and brain. Sigh, the only thing worse than polygraphs, which don't work, would be brain scanners that do. But does anyone really believe NASA could build such a device? Gimme a break, NASA can't read its own mind. The NASA News Room person insisted they knew nothing about it, but the WN researcher persisted and found a NASA press release denying the WT story. 3. HERBAL LOWS: $MULTIBILLION INDUSTRY THREATENED BY TESTING. Sales of herbal medications have soared since passage of the 1994 Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act, which allows natural supplements to be marketed without proof of safety, efficacy or purity. Mindful of the popularity of alternative health claims, Congress showers money on NIH's Center of Complementary and Alternative Medicine. But a remarkable thing has happened. NIH has begun testing many of the popular herbal medications. The most important discovery in the history of medicine was the randomized double-blind test. It allows us to find out what works and what doesn't. So far, herbals are in the "doesn't" category: St. John's Wort doesn't relieve depression, but it does interfere with some cancer drugs; echinacea doesn't ward off colds and flu; ephedra causes frequent injuries and even death; and this week we learn that ginkgo biloba doesn't enhance memory in people over 60. There's another one, but I can't remember it. 4. FREE ENERGY: THE PATENT OFFICE DECIDES TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK. In April, we reported that Patent 6,362,718 had been issued for a Motionless Electromagnetic Generator that "extracts energy from a permanent magnet." We are happy to report that the Patent office will now test and certify patent examiners on a regular basis and will change the way it recruits examiners. Oh yes, and the Patent Commissioner ordered a Reexamination of Patent 6,362,718. THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND and THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the University or the American Physical Society, but they should be. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sat Aug 24 14:31:45 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA02714; Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:30:21 -0700 Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:30:21 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: What's New for Aug 23, 2002] Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 07:29:52 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <3D66A89C.7880EC5 ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <3D66A89C.7880EC5 ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA02692 Resent-Message-ID: <"PS66h3.0.Kg.jh_Pz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47870 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to Akira Kawasaki's message of Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:26:52 -0700: Hi, [snip] >4. FREE ENERGY: THE PATENT OFFICE DECIDES TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK. >In April, we reported that Patent 6,362,718 had been issued for a >Motionless Electromagnetic Generator that "extracts energy from a >permanent magnet." We are happy to report that the Patent office >will now test and certify patent examiners on a regular basis >and will change the way it recruits examiners. Oh yes, and the >Patent Commissioner ordered a Reexamination of Patent 6,362,718. If they are going to go to lengths to squash this, maybe it does work after all. :) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 25 13:47:21 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA27739; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 13:44:22 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 13:44:22 -0700 Message-ID: <003301c24c6f$10183d20$b310b83f computer> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: Cc: Subject: Fw: David Bergman's Spinning Ring Particle Model Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 14:38:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"eDWrj3.0.Kn6.c6KQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47871 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See: http://www.commonsensescience.org/ > > You wrote: > > Fred, > > > > > As I see it, when you treat the proton and electron as circles that can > > interact and > > > exchange energy/mass, thus radius, there is room for Mills' "fractional orbit" > > Hydrino > > > to exist and be catalyzed by the field of various catalyst atoms. > > > > Using this model, when the hydrino/deuterino "shrink," do both the nucleus and > > shell loose mass/energy in equal amounts? > > I propose that the three ~312 Mev Meson Rings (Three Bound ~560 Mev Kaon Rings with a > radius of ~ 4.6E-18 Meters, a radius 1/624 that of the Electron) in the Proton will > donate energy to the Electron Ring and Increase ever so slightly in radius while the Electron Ring will Gain > Energy and Shrink slightly in radius according to R = kq^2/Energy, with a slight mass increase, and concurrently the "orbit radius" will decrease according to the loss of Potential or Binding Energy, i.e., the energy gain Mills claims. > > > > IOW, if the hydrino drops 27.2 ev below ground state, is 13.6 ev contributed by > > the electron and 13.6 by the proton? > > I choose the proton. Something in nature has to provide the Potential energy. No? > > > > Does this model say that charge and mass are directly related - so that each > > will become fractionally charged as each drops mass? > > No, Charge is Invariant. > > > > Is 13.6 a quanta for shrinkage or it just for hydrogen? Do other elements > > shrink? > > The "Hydrogenic Electron Potential Energy" for each totally stripped nucleus is found > to be 13.6 Z^2 ev. Thus 54.4 ev for He, 122.4 ev for Li, and so on. > > Fred From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Sun Aug 25 20:21:36 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA11397; Sun, 25 Aug 2002 20:20:15 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 20:20:15 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Standing Bear To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 00:17:41 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] References: <000801c1d8e1$c9fc2230$7009fea9 bear> <3CA76810.CA4E6316@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <3CA76810.CA4E6316 ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"JYtzV3.0.wn2.lvPQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47872 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I feel that what we are going to get instead is a series of command decisions on nuclear waste. It will have to be this way or nuclear power here will be forever hamstrung by modern day Luddites. It may even come to declaring martial law under the internal security and FEMA acts. It must be understood that we need energy independence for our security. Those who would undermine this must be thought of no different than the Saudi Al Qaedas that committed terrorism againt our nation last Sept 11th. They should be considered that way by the new Homeland Security Department. I forsee the building of many new camps like in Cuba at Guantanamo to house these sorts. Nuclear waste is one of the most overblown so called menaces in the history of man. Typical item of waste....a glove used to work in certain areas of a facility. The half life of the miniscule amounts of radioactive material on a glove typically will be around a statistical average of less than a few seconds. If this waste were so 'hot', one could use it for fuel for secondary recovery operations. I suggested this very idea to a physics professor of mine when I was in engineering school at California State University back in the 1970's. He told me about the above, and that really the stuff should be better segregated. That done, the real storage requirements would shrink dramatically. The present controversy over liability and insurance is just a canard to mask ulterior motives to destroy our energy independence and our ability to re-attain it.. It is, in short, treason. Energy obstructionists will always seek to delay nuclear developement even on the most specious of grounds. If successful here, they will not stop nuclear developement in the world, rather they will only stop SAFE nuclear progress. Our surrendur of the lead in this field will be to the North Koreas and Iraqs of the world. Their engineers are now and will in the future be ordered on pain of dismemberment by their governments to always put military considerations first, energy production second, and safety dead last. It will be they who build their own economies of nuclear energy on the backs of our failure of will to stop traitorous obstructionists here. There is a further danger, if feel, from another area, completely overlooked by those fixated on the spurious issue of safety. That is from the new experiments due to come on line in a few years that will put more and more intense energy in smaller and smaller spaces. One of the principles taught to all beginning engineering students is 'activation energy'. That is to say potential energy releases often require a certain amount of energy to 'get them going'. The larger the release, often the larger the 'activation energy'. With the hydrogen fusion device, a small fission device is required. In turn, the fission device in its turn requires a chemical device of sufficient force to bring about critical confinement. I feel that there are other forces in nature that we will in time discover. Maybe more than a few. We have no practiical devices now based on the strong nuclear force or weak nuclear force for that matter. How about intranuclear forces at the quark level that we may at present not even know exist. Seems the smaller the particle from which forces arise that we deal with, the progressively and exponentially larger forces we discover. We may discover vast new energies at intranuclear particle sizes that we may be little prepared to deal with. We may even find that time may have other dimensions as well. Our universe may be very strange indeed. Suppose our assumptions about microscopic black holes generated in future accelerators are wrong and they do not 'evaporate' but grow instead. What about exotic or strange matter. It might be better to first develope space travel using our existing nuclear technologies and construct the labs for investigating these 'hot' sciences in some safe place....like beyond the Oort cloud. It is only a fool that mixes his destruction in his own garage or home. I really pray that Mr Naudin's experiments lead to practical devices. They would make this developement of space for hot science research a more attainable reality. For if after some failed experiment generates strange matter and the ground beneath your feet suddenly sinks 3500 miles in the space of a microsecond, it will be too late. Standing Bear On Sunday 31 March 2002 14:48, Edmund Storms wrote: > Matthew, I agree with you, nuclear energy is better in many respects > compared to fossil fuel. If the US had adopted a safe and efficient > reactor design like France and Canada, if we had made a competent effort > to process the fuel rods and dispose of the resulting radioactive > material, if we had done this using the philosophy that the job needed to > be done right rather than cheap, I would also argue for more nuclear > energy. However, this was not done and, as a result, we have a very > dangerous mess. Furthermore, the philosophy applied by business in this > country will guarantee that any new technology will always result in a > mess, which will only be cleaned up after a sufficient fraction of the > population is killed or injured. This being the situation, I think that > any further development of nuclear energy in the US, no matter how well > argued or how good the design looks on paper, would be very unwise. > Instead, we should look to conservation and renewable sources of energy as > our salvation, not the least of which is cold fusion and zero-point > energy. The very fact that the US has fought these latter energy sources > demonstrates that we as a country are not wise enough to handle something > so dangerous as fission energy. > > Ed > > Matthew Rogers wrote: > > Vor, > > After reading this web page, its articles and links, I can only > > conclude, > > Hurrah, finally somebody who knows what their talking about. > > > > This seems to be an accurate portrayal of the technology needed to make > > things safe, and not insane. > > > > Matthew Rogers > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothwell infinite-energy.com] > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:29 PM > > To: vortex-L eskimo.com > > Subject: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company > > > > This is insane, but interesting: > > > > http://www.atomicengines.com/index.html > > > > "Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. is a feisty company with a couple of > > governing > > thoughts." "A couple of governing thoughts" means they are obsessed, > > like > > CF fanatics, only they want to use uranium fission. > > > > - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 26 04:54:29 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id EAA31338; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 04:53:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 04:53:34 -0700 Message-ID: <004401c24cee$119fadc0$0f00bf3f computer> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: "Jones Beene" Cc: Subject: Re: Pd Catalyzed Deuterino Formation and Cold Fusion Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 05:46:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Resent-Message-ID: <"9v6ZQ3.0.Zf7.-QXQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47873 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Try this Jones, The predominant 21 Kev x-ray line seems to come from the Pd itself, ( See http://ie.lbl.gov/xray/ for the Pd x-ray spectra). This suggests that on or near the Pd surface, one of the K electrons of the Pd is taken up by the proton end of a deuteron, forming a Deuterino (D*) (as suggested by Randy Mills' Hydrino (H*) formation: www.blacklightpower.com with the concurrent release of the 21 Kev Pd x-ray as an electron falls in to fill the K shell. Now you have a chance for the reaction: D* + D ---> T + H* + Energy (Heat) And so on, with the Pd acting as a catalyst, Or? :-) Frederick From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 26 09:38:13 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id JAA16943; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:35:37 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:35:37 -0700 Message-ID: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> Reply-To: "Pierre.CLAUZON" From: "Pierre.CLAUZON" To: Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_FAUVARQUE?= , =?iso-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_LALLEVE?= , "Jean-Louis NAUDIN" , "Jacques DUFOUR" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean-Paul_Bib=E9rian?= , , "Jacques FOOS" , "Jean_de_Lagarde" , "Patrick CORNILLE" Subject: Fw: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 18:34:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C24D2F.2E100A40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Resent-Message-ID: <"bmJg13.0.W84.PZbQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47874 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C24D2F.2E100A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jed and Ed, subject: Nuclear Energy Physicist in the Superphenix preliminary design team, (the 1220MWe = French Breeder, killed by the Greens and our last government, although = this reactor was in a very good shape) I spent almost 3 years at the = CNAM, once retired, trying to duplicate, to improve the cold fusion = experiments and that, without success (see the web site of my friend = J.L. NAUDIN ). Of course, I am following the work of my friend Jacques = DUFOUR (CNAM). Dear Jed and dear Ed, by the mid of this century, one forecasts more = than 8 billions people on this earth and, of course, they will desire to = have the same level of life than we western people do have...Do you hope = to solve the energy problem with windmills farms and others green = dreams? Today, the only credible answer is nuclear energy (a quasi = renewable energy with the fast reactors), unless we are ready to put = more and more CO2 in the atmosphere...and bonjour the catastrophic = climate changes.. . I would like to add this about the nuclear ashes which are the main = point in the nuclear refusal of many of us. Do you know that 1.4 = billions ot tons of uranium are dissolved in the oceans? ( 3.3mg per = cubic meter of sea water, and I do not speak on Potassium 40, 4 times = more abundant than uranium). You can dissolve all the nuclear ashes we = have made since Marie Curie and Henri Becquerel in the sea without = modifying the natural radioactive level in a meaningful way! Of course, = we can do it better in Yucca Mountains for example with appropriate = containments... Human activity produces a lot of goods but also unavoidable troubles. = Let us do not choose a wrong way to solve the energy problem...waiting = for the cold (or hot) fusion energy!=20 You have understood that I agree completely with Standing Bear... PPC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Standing Bear" To: Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:17 AM Subject: Re: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company >=20 > I feel that what we are going to get instead is a series of=20 > command decisions on nuclear waste. It will have to be this way > or nuclear power here will be forever hamstrung by modern day > Luddites. It may even come to declaring martial law under the > internal security and FEMA acts. It must be understood that we > need energy independence for our security. Those who would > undermine this must be thought of no different than the Saudi > Al Qaedas that committed terrorism againt our nation last Sept 11th. > They should be considered that way by the new Homeland > Security Department. I forsee the building of many new camps > like in Cuba at Guantanamo to house these sorts. > Nuclear waste is one of the most overblown so called menaces > in the history of man. Typical item of waste....a glove used to > work in certain areas of a facility. The half life of the miniscule > amounts of radioactive material on a glove typically will be around > a statistical average of less than a few seconds. If this waste were = so > 'hot', one could use it for fuel for secondary recovery operations. I > suggested this very idea to a physics professor of mine when I=20 > was in engineering school at California State University back in > the 1970's. He told me about the above, and that really the stuff = should > be better segregated. That done, the real storage requirements would > shrink dramatically. The present controversy over liability and = insurance > is just a canard to mask ulterior motives to destroy our energy=20 > independence and our ability to re-attain it.. It is, in short, = treason. > Energy obstructionists will > always seek to delay nuclear developement even on the most > specious of grounds. If successful here, they will not stop nuclear > developement in the world, rather they will only stop SAFE nuclear > progress. Our surrendur of the lead in this field will be to the = North > Koreas and Iraqs of the world. Their engineers are now and will in = the future > be ordered on pain of dismemberment by their governments to > always put military considerations first, energy production second, > and safety dead last. It will be they who build their own economies > of nuclear energy on the backs of our failure of will to stop = traitorous > obstructionists here. > There is a further danger, if feel, from another area, completely > overlooked by those fixated on the spurious issue of safety. That is > from the new experiments due to come on line in a few years that > will put more and more intense energy in smaller and smaller spaces. > One of the principles taught to all beginning engineering students is > 'activation energy'. That is to say potential energy releases often > require a certain amount of energy to 'get them going'. The larger > the release, often the larger the 'activation energy'. With the = hydrogen > fusion device, a small fission device is required. In turn, the = fission > device in its turn requires a chemical device of sufficient force to = bring > about critical confinement. I feel that there are other forces in = nature > that we will in time discover. Maybe more than a few. We have no > practiical devices now based on the strong nuclear force or weak > nuclear force for that matter. How about intranuclear forces at the > quark level that we may at present not even know exist. Seems the > smaller the particle from which forces arise that we deal with, the > progressively and exponentially larger forces we discover. We may > discover vast new energies at intranuclear particle sizes that we > may be little prepared to deal with. We may even find that time may > have other dimensions as well. Our universe may be very strange > indeed. > Suppose our assumptions about > microscopic black holes generated in future accelerators are wrong > and they do not 'evaporate' but grow instead. What about exotic > or strange matter. It might be better to first develope space travel > using our existing nuclear technologies and construct the labs for > investigating these 'hot' sciences in some safe place....like beyond > the Oort cloud. It is only a fool that mixes his destruction in his > own garage or home. > I really pray that Mr Naudin's experiments lead to practical=20 > devices. They would make this developement of space for hot > science research a more attainable reality. For if after some > failed experiment generates strange matter and the ground beneath > your feet suddenly sinks 3500 miles in the space of a microsecond, > it will be too late. >=20 > Standing Bear >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sunday 31 March 2002 14:48, Edmund Storms wrote: > > Matthew, I agree with you, nuclear energy is better in many respects > > compared to fossil fuel. If the US had adopted a safe and efficient > > reactor design like France and Canada, if we had made a competent = effort > > to process the fuel rods and dispose of the resulting radioactive > > material, if we had done this using the philosophy that the job = needed to > > be done right rather than cheap, I would also argue for more nuclear > > energy. However, this was not done and, as a result, we have a = very > > dangerous mess. Furthermore, the philosophy applied by business in = this > > country will guarantee that any new technology will always result in = a > > mess, which will only be cleaned up after a sufficient fraction of = the > > population is killed or injured. This being the situation, I think = that > > any further development of nuclear energy in the US, no matter how = well > > argued or how good the design looks on paper, would be very unwise. > > Instead, we should look to conservation and renewable sources of = energy as > > our salvation, not the least of which is cold fusion and zero-point > > energy. The very fact that the US has fought these latter energy = sources > > demonstrates that we as a country are not wise enough to handle = something > > so dangerous as fission energy. > > > > Ed > > > > Matthew Rogers wrote: > > > Vor, > > > After reading this web page, its articles and links, I can = only > > > conclude, > > > Hurrah, finally somebody who knows what their talking about. > > > > > > This seems to be an accurate portrayal of the technology needed to = make > > > things safe, and not insane. > > > > > > Matthew Rogers > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothwell infinite-energy.com] > > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:29 PM > > > To: vortex-L eskimo.com > > > Subject: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company > > > > > > This is insane, but interesting: > > > > > > http://www.atomicengines.com/index.html > > > > > > "Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. is a feisty company with a couple of > > > governing > > > thoughts." "A couple of governing thoughts" means they are = obsessed, > > > like > > > CF fanatics, only they want to use uranium fission. > > > > > > - Jed >=20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C24D2F.2E100A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jed and = Ed,

subject: Nuclear=20 Energy

Physicist in the Superphenix = preliminary design=20 team, (the 1220MWe French Breeder, killed by the Greens and our = last=20 government, although this reactor was in a very good shape) I = spent=20 almost 3 years at the CNAM, once retired, trying to duplicate, to=20 improve the cold fusion experiments and that, without success (see = the web=20 site of my friend J.L. NAUDIN ). Of course, I am following the work of = my friend=20 Jacques DUFOUR (CNAM).

Dear Jed and dear Ed, by the mid of = this century,=20 one forecasts more than 8 billions people on this earth and, of course, = they=20 will desire to have the same level of life than we western = people do=20 have...Do you hope to solve the energy problem with windmills farms and = others=20 green dreams? Today, the only credible answer is nuclear energy (a quasi = renewable energy with the fast reactors), unless we are ready to put = more and=20 more CO2 in the atmosphere...and bonjour the catastrophic = climate=20 changes..

I would like to add this about the = nuclear ashes=20 which are the main point in the nuclear refusal of many of us. Do you = know that=20 1.4 billions ot tons of uranium are dissolved in the oceans? ( 3.3mg per = cubic=20 meter of sea water, and I do not speak on Potassium 40, 4 times more = abundant=20 than uranium). You can dissolve all the nuclear ashes we have made since = Marie=20 Curie and Henri Becquerel in the sea without modifying the natural = radioactive=20 level in a meaningful way! Of course, we can do it better in Yucca = Mountains for=20 example with appropriate containments...

Human activity produces a lot of goods = but also=20 unavoidable troubles. Let us do not choose a wrong way to = solve the=20 energy problem...waiting for the cold (or hot) fusion energy! =

You have understood that I agree = completely with=20 Standing Bear...

PPC

----- Original Message ----- =

From: "Standing Bear" <rockcast net-link.net>

To: <vortex-l eskimo.com>

Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:17 = AM

Subject: Re: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. = . . . a=20 feisty company

>
>    I feel that what we are going to get = instead=20 is a series of
> command decisions on nuclear waste.   = It will=20 have to be this way
> or nuclear power here will be forever = hamstrung by=20 modern day
> Luddites. It may even come to declaring martial = law=20 under the
> internal security and FEMA acts. It must be = understood=20 that we
> need energy independence for our security. Those = who=20 would
> undermine this must be thought of no different than the=20 Saudi
> Al Qaedas that committed terrorism againt our nation last = Sept=20 11th.
> They should be considered that way by the new = Homeland
>=20 Security Department. I forsee the building of many new = camps
> like=20 in Cuba at Guantanamo to house these sorts.
>    Nuclear = waste=20 is one of the most overblown so called menaces
> in the history of = man. Typical item of waste....a glove used to
> work in = certain=20 areas of a facility. The half life of the miniscule
> = amounts of=20 radioactive material on a glove typically will be around
> a = statistical=20 average of less than a few seconds. If this waste were so
> = 'hot',=20 one could use it for fuel for secondary recovery operations. = I
>=20 suggested this very idea to a physics professor of mine when I
> = was in=20 engineering school at California State University back in
> the=20 1970's. He told me about the above, and that really the stuff=20 should
> be better segregated. That done, the real storage=20 requirements would
> shrink dramatically. The present = controversy=20 over liability and insurance
> is just a canard to mask ulterior = motives=20 to destroy our energy
> independence and our ability to re-attain = it.. It is, in short, treason.
>      = Energy=20 obstructionists will
> always seek to delay nuclear developement = even on=20 the most
> specious of grounds. If successful here, they = will not=20 stop nuclear
> developement in the world, rather they will only = stop SAFE=20 nuclear
> progress. Our surrendur of the lead in this field = will be=20 to the North
> Koreas and Iraqs of the world. Their = engineers are=20 now and will in the future
> be ordered on pain of dismemberment = by their=20 governments to
> always put military considerations first, energy=20 production second,
> and safety dead last. It will be they = who build=20 their own economies
> of nuclear energy on the backs of our = failure of=20 will to stop traitorous
> obstructionists here.
> =    There=20 is a further danger, if feel, from another area, completely
> = overlooked=20 by those fixated on the spurious issue of safety. That is
> = from the=20 new experiments due to come on line in a few years that
> will put = more=20 and more intense energy in smaller and smaller spaces.
> One of = the=20 principles taught to all beginning engineering students is
> = 'activation=20 energy'. That is to say potential energy releases often
> = require a=20 certain amount of energy to 'get them going'.   The = larger
> the=20 release, often the larger the 'activation energy'. With the=20 hydrogen
> fusion device, a small fission device is = required. In=20 turn, the fission
> device in its turn requires a chemical device = of=20 sufficient force to bring
> about critical confinement. I = feel that=20 there are other forces in nature
> that we will in time = discover. =20 Maybe more than a few. We have no
> practiical devices now = based on=20 the strong nuclear force or weak
> nuclear force for that = matter. =20 How about intranuclear forces at the
> quark level that we may at = present=20 not even know exist. Seems the
> smaller the particle from = which=20 forces arise that we deal with, the
> progressively and = exponentially=20 larger forces we discover. We may
> discover vast new = energies at=20 intranuclear particle sizes that we
> may be little prepared to = deal=20 with. We may even find that time may
> have other dimensions = as=20 well. Our universe may be very strange
> indeed.
>=20    Suppose our assumptions about
> microscopic black = holes=20 generated in future accelerators are wrong
> and they do not = 'evaporate'=20 but grow instead. What about exotic
> or strange = matter. It=20 might be better to first develope space travel
> using our = existing=20 nuclear technologies and construct the labs for
> investigating = these=20 'hot' sciences in some safe place....like beyond
> the Oort = cloud. =20 It is only a fool that mixes his destruction in his
> own garage = or=20 home.
>     I really pray that Mr Naudin's = experiments lead=20 to practical
> devices. They would make this developement = of space=20 for hot
> science research a more attainable reality.   = For if=20 after some
> failed experiment generates strange matter and the = ground=20 beneath
> your feet suddenly sinks 3500 miles in the space of a=20 microsecond,
> it will be too late.
>
> Standing = Bear
>=20
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> = On=20 Sunday 31 March 2002 14:48, Edmund Storms wrote:
> > Matthew, I = agree=20 with you, nuclear energy is better in many respects
> > = compared to=20 fossil fuel. If the US had adopted a safe and efficient
> = >=20 reactor design like France and Canada, if we had made a competent = effort
>=20 > to process the fuel rods and dispose of the resulting = radioactive
>=20 > material, if we had done this using the philosophy that the job = needed=20 to
> > be done right rather than cheap, I would also argue for = more=20 nuclear
> > energy.   However, this was not done and, = as a=20 result, we have a very
> > dangerous mess. Furthermore, = the=20 philosophy applied by business in this
> > country will = guarantee that=20 any new technology will always result in a
> > mess, which will = only be=20 cleaned up after a sufficient fraction of the
> > population is = killed=20 or injured. This being the situation, I think that
> > = any=20 further development of nuclear energy in the US, no matter how = well
> >=20 argued or how good the design looks on paper, would be very = unwise.
> >=20 Instead, we should look to conservation and renewable sources of energy=20 as
> > our salvation, not the least of which is cold fusion and = zero-point
> > energy. The very fact that the US has = fought these=20 latter energy sources
> > demonstrates that we as a country are = not=20 wise enough to handle something
> > so dangerous as fission=20 energy.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Matthew = Rogers=20 wrote:
> > > Vor,
> >=20 >         After reading this = web=20 page, its articles and links, I can only
> > > = conclude,
>=20 > > Hurrah, finally somebody who knows what their talking = about.
>=20 > >
> > > This seems to be an accurate portrayal of = the=20 technology needed to make
> > > things safe, and not = insane.
>=20 > >
> > > Matthew Rogers
> > >
> = > >=20 -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jed Rothwell=20 [mailto:jedrothwell infinite-energy.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, = March=20 22, 2002 1:29 PM
> > > To: vortex-L eskimo.com
> > >=20 Subject: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company
> >=20 >
> > > This is insane, but interesting:
> >=20 >
> > > http://www.atomicengines.com/index.html
> > >
> > > "Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. is = a feisty=20 company with a couple of
> > > governing
> > >=20 thoughts." "A couple of governing thoughts" means they are = obsessed,
>=20 > > like
> > > CF fanatics, only they want to use = uranium=20 fission.
> > >
> > > - Jed
>
>=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C24D2F.2E100A40-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 26 10:36:39 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx2.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA05675; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3D6A59E4.5F310688 ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:40:28 -0600 From: Edmund Storms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pierre.CLAUZON" CC: vortex-L eskimo.com, "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois?= FAUVARQUE" , "=?iso-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard?= LALLEVE" , Jean-Louis NAUDIN , Jacques DUFOUR , "Jean-Paul =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bib=E9rian?=" , lonchams free.fr, Jacques FOOS , Jean_de_Lagarde , Patrick CORNILLE Subject: Re: Fw: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company References: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1A56738D574E96A63608A818" Resent-Message-ID: <"HFyr82.0.aO1.gNcQz" mx2> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47875 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --------------1A56738D574E96A63608A818 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Pierre.CLAUZON" wrote: > Hi Jed and Ed, subject: Nuclear Energy Physicist in the > Superphenix preliminary design team, (the 1220MWe French > Breeder, killed by the Greens and our last government, > although this reactor was in a very good shape) I spent > almost 3 years at the CNAM, once retired, trying to > duplicate, to improve the cold fusion experiments and > that, without success (see the web site of my friend J.L. > NAUDIN ). Of course, I am following the work of my friend > Jacques DUFOUR (CNAM). Dear Jed and dear Ed, by the mid of > this century, one forecasts more than 8 billions people on > this earth and, of course, they will desire to have the > same level of life than we western people do have...Do you > hope to solve the energy problem with windmills farms and > others green dreams? Today, the only credible answer is > nuclear energy (a quasi renewable energy with the fast > reactors), unless we are ready to put more and more CO2 in > the atmosphere...and bonjour the catastrophic climate > changes.. > > Pierre, consider what this population increase means in > terms of using nuclear energy. For all these people to > have the energy we enjoy, the number of reactors would > have to increased by at least 1000 times. Many of these > reactors would be in countries having even less competence > than found in Russia or the US. Sooner or later, one or > more would melt down or explode. Such a possibility is > just too dangerous to consider using this source. Just > because France and Canada know how to make reactors safe > is no reason everyone will be as lucky or as competent. > > .I would like to add this about the nuclear ashes which > are the main point in the nuclear refusal of many of us. > Do you know that 1.4 billions ot tons of uranium are > dissolved in the oceans? ( 3.3mg per cubic meter of sea > water, and I do not speak on Potassium 40, 4 times more > abundant than uranium). You can dissolve all the nuclear > ashes we have made since Marie Curie and Henri Becquerel > in the sea without modifying the natural radioactive level > in a meaningful way! Of course, we can do it better in > Yucca Mountains for example with appropriate > containments... > > > Placing the spent fuel in the ocean is not practical even > though the dilution would eventually be great. It is > impossible to achieve the dilution immediately, so local > concentrations of activity will be present and these will > have expected and unexpected consequences to the food > chain. Yucca Mountain is barely able to hold the waste of > the US, much less the world. How many "Yucca Mountains" > do you expect are available in the world.? Would a poor > country be as careful with its waste as the US and > France? Given Russia as an example, I would hate to see > the rest of world be made as contaminated. > > > > Human activity produces a lot of goods but also > unavoidable troubles. Let us do not choose a wrong way to > solve the energy problem...waiting for the cold (or hot) > fusion energy! > > We do not have to make a bad choice while waiting for CF. > All that has to happen is for the price of oil to go up by > a factor of three, and cold fusion will become a reality. > Once this happens, conventional nuclear energy and use of > oil and coal will disappear. At that point, all of our > worries will also disappear, provide the transition can be > made without destroying the world's economy. > > Ed > > > > You have understood that I agree completely with > Standing Bear... PPC ----- Original Message -----From: > "Standing Bear" To: > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:17 > AMSubject: Re: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty > company > > > I feel that what we are going to get instead is a > series of > > command decisions on nuclear waste. It will have to be > this way > > or nuclear power here will be forever hamstrung by > modern day > > Luddites. It may even come to declaring martial law > under the > > internal security and FEMA acts. It must be understood > that we > > need energy independence for our security. Those who > would > > undermine this must be thought of no different than the > Saudi > > Al Qaedas that committed terrorism againt our nation > last Sept 11th. > > They should be considered that way by the new Homeland > > Security Department. I forsee the building of many new > camps > > like in Cuba at Guantanamo to house these sorts. > > Nuclear waste is one of the most overblown so called > menaces > > in the history of man. Typical item of waste....a glove > used to > > work in certain areas of a facility. The half life of > the miniscule > > amounts of radioactive material on a glove typically > will be around > > a statistical average of less than a few seconds. If > this waste were so > > 'hot', one could use it for fuel for secondary recovery > operations. I > > suggested this very idea to a physics professor of mine > when I > > was in engineering school at California State University > back in > > the 1970's. He told me about the above, and that really > the stuff should > > be better segregated. That done, the real storage > requirements would > > shrink dramatically. The present controversy over > liability and insurance > > is just a canard to mask ulterior motives to destroy our > energy > > independence and our ability to re-attain it.. It is, > in short, treason. > > Energy obstructionists will > > always seek to delay nuclear developement even on the > most > > specious of grounds. If successful here, they will not > stop nuclear > > developement in the world, rather they will only stop > SAFE nuclear > > progress. Our surrendur of the lead in this field will > be to the North > > Koreas and Iraqs of the world. Their engineers are now > and will in the future > > be ordered on pain of dismemberment by their governments > to > > always put military considerations first, energy > production second, > > and safety dead last. It will be they who build their > own economies > > of nuclear energy on the backs of our failure of will to > stop traitorous > > obstructionists here. > > There is a further danger, if feel, from another > area, completely > > overlooked by those fixated on the spurious issue of > safety. That is > > from the new experiments due to come on line in a few > years that > > will put more and more intense energy in smaller and > smaller spaces. > > One of the principles taught to all beginning > engineering students is > > 'activation energy'. That is to say potential energy > releases often > > require a certain amount of energy to 'get them > going'. The larger > > the release, often the larger the 'activation energy'. > With the hydrogen > > fusion device, a small fission device is required. In > turn, the fission > > device in its turn requires a chemical device of > sufficient force to bring > > about critical confinement. I feel that there are other > forces in nature > > that we will in time discover. Maybe more than a few. > We have no > > practiical devices now based on the strong nuclear force > or weak > > nuclear force for that matter. How about intranuclear > forces at the > > quark level that we may at present not even know exist. > Seems the > > smaller the particle from which forces arise that we > deal with, the > > progressively and exponentially larger forces we > discover. We may > > discover vast new energies at intranuclear particle > sizes that we > > may be little prepared to deal with. We may even find > that time may > > have other dimensions as well. Our universe may be very > strange > > indeed. > > Suppose our assumptions about > > microscopic black holes generated in future accelerators > are wrong > > and they do not 'evaporate' but grow instead. What > about exotic > > or strange matter. It might be better to first develope > space travel > > using our existing nuclear technologies and construct > the labs for > > investigating these 'hot' sciences in some safe > place....like beyond > > the Oort cloud. It is only a fool that mixes his > destruction in his > > own garage or home. > > I really pray that Mr Naudin's experiments lead to > practical > > devices. They would make this developement of space for > hot > > science research a more attainable reality. For if > after some > > failed experiment generates strange matter and the > ground beneath > > your feet suddenly sinks 3500 miles in the space of a > microsecond, > > it will be too late. > > > > Standing Bear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday 31 March 2002 14:48, Edmund Storms wrote: > > > Matthew, I agree with you, nuclear energy is better in > many respects > > > compared to fossil fuel. If the US had adopted a safe > and efficient > > > reactor design like France and Canada, if we had made > a competent effort > > > to process the fuel rods and dispose of the resulting > radioactive > > > material, if we had done this using the philosophy > that the job needed to > > > be done right rather than cheap, I would also argue > for more nuclear > > > energy. However, this was not done and, as a result, > we have a very > > > dangerous mess. Furthermore, the philosophy applied > by business in this > > > country will guarantee that any new technology will > always result in a > > > mess, which will only be cleaned up after a sufficient > fraction of the > > > population is killed or injured. This being the > situation, I think that > > > any further development of nuclear energy in the US, > no matter how well > > > argued or how good the design looks on paper, would be > very unwise. > > > Instead, we should look to conservation and renewable > sources of energy as > > > our salvation, not the least of which is cold fusion > and zero-point > > > energy. The very fact that the US has fought these > latter energy sources > > > demonstrates that we as a country are not wise enough > to handle something > > > so dangerous as fission energy. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > Matthew Rogers wrote: > > > > Vor, > > > > After reading this web page, its articles > and links, I can only > > > > conclude, > > > > Hurrah, finally somebody who knows what their > talking about. > > > > > > > > This seems to be an accurate portrayal of the > technology needed to make > > > > things safe, and not insane. > > > > > > > > Matthew Rogers > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Jed Rothwell > [mailto:jedrothwell infinite-energy.com] > > > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:29 PM > > > > To: vortex-L eskimo.com > > > > Subject: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty > company > > > > > > > > This is insane, but interesting: > > > > > > > > http://www.atomicengines.com/index.html > > > > > > > > "Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. is a feisty company with > a couple of > > > > governing > > > > thoughts." "A couple of governing thoughts" means > they are obsessed, > > > > like > > > > CF fanatics, only they want to use uranium fission. > > > > > > > > - Jed > > > > --------------1A56738D574E96A63608A818 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

"Pierre.CLAUZON" wrote:

Hi Jed and Ed, subject: Nuclear Energy Physicist in the Superphenix preliminary design team, (the 1220MWe French Breeder, killed by the Greens and our last government, although this reactor was in a very good shape) I spent almost 3 years at the CNAM, once retired, trying to duplicate, to improve the cold fusion experiments and that, without success (see the web site of my friend J.L. NAUDIN ). Of course, I am following the work of my friend Jacques DUFOUR (CNAM). Dear Jed and dear Ed, by the mid of this century, one forecasts more than 8 billions people on this earth and, of course, they will desire to have the same level of life than we western people do have...Do you hope to solve the energy problem with windmills farms and others green dreams? Today, the only credible answer is nuclear energy (a quasi renewable energy with the fast reactors), unless we are ready to put more and more CO2 in the atmosphere...and bonjour the catastrophic climate changes..
Pierre, consider what this population increase means in terms of using nuclear energy. For all these people to have the energy we enjoy, the number of reactors would have to increased by at least 1000 times. Many of these reactors would be in countries having even less competence than found in Russia or the US. Sooner or later, one or more would melt down or explode. Such a possibility is just too dangerous to consider using this source. Just because France and Canada know how to make reactors safe is no reason everyone will be as lucky or as competent.
.I would like to add this about the nuclear ashes which are the main point in the nuclear refusal of many of us. Do you know that 1.4 billions ot tons of uranium are dissolved in the oceans? ( 3.3mg per cubic meter of sea water, and I do not speak on Potassium 40, 4 times more abundant than uranium). You can dissolve all the nuclear ashes we have made since Marie Curie and Henri Becquerel in the sea without modifying the natural radioactive level in a meaningful way! Of course, we can do it better in Yucca Mountains for example with appropriate containments...

Placing the spent fuel in the ocean is not practical even though the dilution would eventually be great. It is impossible to achieve the dilution immediately, so local concentrations of activity will be present and these will have expected and unexpected consequences to the food chain. Yucca Mountain is barely able to hold the waste of the US, much less the world. How many "Yucca Mountains" do you expect are available in the world.? Would a poor country be as careful with its waste as the US and France? Given Russia as an example, I would hate to see the rest of world be made as contaminated.

Human activity produces a lot of goods but also unavoidable troubles. Let us do not choose a wrong way to solve the energy problem...waiting for the cold (or hot) fusion energy!
We do not have to make a bad choice while waiting for CF. All that has to happen is for the price of oil to go up by a factor of three, and cold fusion will become a reality. Once this happens, conventional nuclear energy and use of oil and coal will disappear. At that point, all of our worries will also disappear, provide the transition can be made without destroying the world's economy.
Ed

You have understood that I agree completely with Standing Bear... PPC ----- Original Message -----From: "Standing Bear" <rockcast@net-link.net>To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com>Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 6:17 AMSubject: Re: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company >
>    I feel that what we are going to get instead is a series of
> command decisions on nuclear waste.   It will have to be this way
> or nuclear power here will be forever hamstrung by modern day
> Luddites. It may even come to declaring martial law under the
> internal security and FEMA acts. It must be understood that we
> need energy independence for our security. Those who would
> undermine this must be thought of no different than the Saudi
> Al Qaedas that committed terrorism againt our nation last Sept 11th.
> They should be considered that way by the new Homeland
> Security Department. I forsee the building of many new camps
> like in Cuba at Guantanamo to house these sorts.
>    Nuclear waste is one of the most overblown so called menaces
> in the history of man. Typical item of waste....a glove used to
> work in certain areas of a facility. The half life of the miniscule
> amounts of radioactive material on a glove typically will be around
> a statistical average of less than a few seconds. If this waste were so
> 'hot', one could use it for fuel for secondary recovery operations. I
> suggested this very idea to a physics professor of mine when I
> was in engineering school at California State University back in
> the 1970's. He told me about the above, and that really the stuff should
> be better segregated. That done, the real storage requirements would
> shrink dramatically. The present controversy over liability and insurance
> is just a canard to mask ulterior motives to destroy our energy
> independence and our ability to re-attain it.. It is, in short, treason.
>      Energy obstructionists will
> always seek to delay nuclear developement even on the most
> specious of grounds. If successful here, they will not stop nuclear
> developement in the world, rather they will only stop SAFE nuclear
> progress. Our surrendur of the lead in this field will be to the North
> Koreas and Iraqs of the world. Their engineers are now and will in the future
> be ordered on pain of dismemberment by their governments to
> always put military considerations first, energy production second,
> and safety dead last. It will be they who build their own economies
> of nuclear energy on the backs of our failure of will to stop traitorous
> obstructionists here.
>    There is a further danger, if feel, from another area, completely
> overlooked by those fixated on the spurious issue of safety. That is
> from the new experiments due to come on line in a few years that
> will put more and more intense energy in smaller and smaller spaces.
> One of the principles taught to all beginning engineering students is
> 'activation energy'. That is to say potential energy releases often
> require a certain amount of energy to 'get them going'.   The larger
> the release, often the larger the 'activation energy'. With the hydrogen
> fusion device, a small fission device is required. In turn, the fission
> device in its turn requires a chemical device of sufficient force to bring
> about critical confinement. I feel that there are other forces in nature
> that we will in time discover. Maybe more than a few. We have no
> practiical devices now based on the strong nuclear force or weak
> nuclear force for that matter. How about intranuclear forces at the
> quark level that we may at present not even know exist. Seems the
> smaller the particle from which forces arise that we deal with, the
> progressively and exponentially larger forces we discover. We may
> discover vast new energies at intranuclear particle sizes that we
> may be little prepared to deal with. We may even find that time may
> have other dimensions as well. Our universe may be very strange
> indeed.
>    Suppose our assumptions about
> microscopic black holes generated in future accelerators are wrong
> and they do not 'evaporate' but grow instead. What about exotic
> or strange matter. It might be better to first develope space travel
> using our existing nuclear technologies and construct the labs for
> investigating these 'hot' sciences in some safe place....like beyond
> the Oort cloud. It is only a fool that mixes his destruction in his
> own garage or home.
>     I really pray that Mr Naudin's experiments lead to practical
> devices. They would make this developement of space for hot
> science research a more attainable reality.   For if after some
> failed experiment generates strange matter and the ground beneath
> your feet suddenly sinks 3500 miles in the space of a microsecond,
> it will be too late.
>
> Standing Bear
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday 31 March 2002 14:48, Edmund Storms wrote:
> > Matthew, I agree with you, nuclear energy is better in many respects
> > compared to fossil fuel. If the US had adopted a safe and efficient
> > reactor design like France and Canada, if we had made a competent effort
> > to process the fuel rods and dispose of the resulting radioactive
> > material, if we had done this using the philosophy that the job needed to
> > be done right rather than cheap, I would also argue for more nuclear
> > energy.   However, this was not done and, as a result, we have a very
> > dangerous mess. Furthermore, the philosophy applied by business in this
> > country will guarantee that any new technology will always result in a
> > mess, which will only be cleaned up after a sufficient fraction of the
> > population is killed or injured. This being the situation, I think that
> > any further development of nuclear energy in the US, no matter how well
> > argued or how good the design looks on paper, would be very unwise.
> > Instead, we should look to conservation and renewable sources of energy as
> > our salvation, not the least of which is cold fusion and zero-point
> > energy. The very fact that the US has fought these latter energy sources
> > demonstrates that we as a country are not wise enough to handle something
> > so dangerous as fission energy.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Matthew Rogers wrote:
> > > Vor,
> > >         After reading this web page, its articles and links, I can only
> > > conclude,
> > > Hurrah, finally somebody who knows what their talking about.
> > >
> > > This seems to be an accurate portrayal of the technology needed to make
> > > things safe, and not insane.
> > >
> > > Matthew Rogers
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothwell@infinite-energy.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:29 PM
> > > To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
> > > Subject: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company
> > >
> > > This is insane, but interesting:
> > >
> > > http://www.atomicengines.com/index.html
> > >
> > > "Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. is a feisty company with a couple of
> > > governing
> > > thoughts." "A couple of governing thoughts" means they are obsessed,
> > > like
> > > CF fanatics, only they want to use uranium fission.
> > >
> > > - Jed
>
>

--------------1A56738D574E96A63608A818-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 26 10:43:55 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id KAA20383; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:42:40 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:42:40 -0700 X-Sent: 26 Aug 2002 17:42:34 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826130249.0329fae0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 13:42:18 -0400 To: "Pierre.CLAUZON" , From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Fw: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company In-Reply-To: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"Fzn8y2.0.M-4.FYcQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47876 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Pierre.CLAUZON wrote: >I spent almost 3 years at the CNAM, once retired, trying to duplicate, to >improve the cold fusion experiments and that, without success (see the web >site of my friend J.L. NAUDIN ). Of course, I am following the work of my >friend Jacques DUFOUR (CNAM). How did your replication go? Any positive results? What is the latest news from Dufour? >Dear Jed and dear Ed, by the mid of this century, one forecasts more than >8 billions people on this earth and, of course, they will desire to have >the same level of life than we western people do have...Do you hope to >solve the energy problem with windmills farms and others green dreams? Easily. There is enough potential wind power in the U.S., Europe and China to produce all of the electricity on earth plus as much chemical fuel as the oil now extracted from the Middle East now supplies. The cost would high, but nowhere near as high as the cost of building nuclear fission power plants. The costs are roughly: Conventional gas turbine or coal: $500 per kW capacity. Cost is rising. Wind: $1,000/kW. Cost is falling rapidly. Conventional nuclear: $3,000 - $6,000/kW. Cost is rising, rapidly. Breeder reactor: $24,000/kW? No one knows. The Japanese breeder reactor program managers estimate the power itself would be 4 to 8 times more expensive than conventional electricity. The land use and pollution from uranium extraction is dreadful, almost as bad as coal. (Only ethanol production is more destructive than coal, but this is not an energy production system, since ethanol consumes far more energy than it produces.) Fuel costs for fission are a little lower than gas or coal, but only when you ignore the pollution and environmental destruction caused by mining, and the cost of storing or recyling the used uranium. Fuel costs for wind power are zero. No corporation or government would build nuclear plants. It is economic insanity. The potential cost of insurance is so high, the government has waived the rules and allowed the industry to operate without liability insurance (under the Price Anderson). In the event of an accident, governments in the U.S. and the E.U. will pay. In the third world, no one will pay, and tens of thousands of people will suffer as they have in Chernobyl. All of the insurance companies in the world together say they could not afford the business. If Congress were to repeal Price Anderson, the industry would shrivel up and die even faster than it is dying already. >I would like to add this about the nuclear ashes which are the main point >in the nuclear refusal of many of us. Also the waste at mines and production plants, and the potential for terrorist attacks with dirty bombs, the danger of operating the plants with unskilled people or crazy people, and -- as I said -- the cost, which is astronomical. > Do you know that 1.4 billions ot tons of uranium are dissolved in the > oceans? ( 3.3mg per cubic meter of sea water, and I do not speak on > Potassium 40, 4 times more abundant than uranium). You can dissolve all > the nuclear ashes we have made since Marie Curie and Henri Becquerel in > the sea without modifying the natural radioactive level in a meaningful way! This fact seems irrelevant to me. Do you propose getting rid of nuclear waste in this fashion? How would you dump the dissolved material in the ocean without concentrating it in one spot? Nuclear wastes are now concentrated in a few thousand places on earth. It would be insane to spread the waste out thinner to more places or dump it in water. Most of the present repositories are highly vulnerable to terrorist attack. Some, in Russia, are abandoned without any protection. Anyone can walk up and take the material. Building thousands of reactors for use in the third world, China or Russia would certainly result in countless severe accidents and deliberate terrorist acts. Nothing could prevent that. Note that these Adams Atomic Engines people do not address a single one of these issues. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 26 12:17:09 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id MAA10074; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:15:41 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:15:41 -0700 X-Sent: 26 Aug 2002 19:15:38 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826143456.0329fae0 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:15:33 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company In-Reply-To: References: <3CA76810.CA4E6316 ix.netcom.com> <000801c1d8e1$c9fc2230$7009fea9 bear> <3CA76810.CA4E6316 ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"dzTn92.0.KT2.SvdQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47877 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Standing Bear wrote: >I feel that what we are going to get instead is a series of >command decisions on nuclear waste. It will have to be this way >or nuclear power here will be forever hamstrung by modern day >Luddites. Modern day Luddites have no political power and they have done nothing to hamstring fission power. The fission power industry destroyed itself by making slipshod, dangerous, overpriced products that cannot compete, and could not be insured even by a consortium of every insurance company on earth. (That's according to the insurance industry testimony before Congress.) No sane corporation or government would build conventional fission power plants, or anything resembling them. Much better, cheaper, more reliable alternatives are available. >It must be understood that we need energy independence for our security. It must be understood that we could have independence for the asking, at a very moderate cost -- much less than the cost of fission reactors! The U.S. has enough renewable energy resources to supply the whole planet with fuel, until the sun goes out. We could easily have put OPEC out of business 20 years ago. Unfortunately the fossil fuel industry has great political influence and it has derailed progress in this area. >Those who would undermine this must be thought of no different than the >Saudi Al Qaedas that committed terrorism againt our nation last Sept 11th. And those who would bankrupt the nation by building obsolete fission reactors are no different than the Enron shysters who robbed California of billions of dollars during the fake "energy crisis" last year. The people in California made a few minor adjustments to their lifestyle and the "shortages" disappeared. In the U.S. as a whole, we could cut consumption by half and never notice it. Our economic competitors consume far less per dollar of GDP than we do. This would be cheaper than building any form of generator (even wind generators) and it would leave so much oil left over we could export the stuff again. There is no energy crisis, anywhere. There is no security issue. There is absolutely no shortage of fossil fuel, wind or solar energy. The idea is ridiculous. The problem is that fossil fuel pollutes too much and costs too much, and we lack a cheap, reliable way to extract solar energy. Wind, at present, is cheaper than fossil fuel in many places and FAR cheaper than fission, anywhere. Cold fusion, of course, would ultimately be orders of magnitude cheaper than wind, and we could generate enough of it to vaporize planet earth. >Nuclear waste is one of the most overblown so called menaces in the >history of man. And nuclear power plants are the most expensive waste of capital in history. People who believe in free market capitalism despise them, including people at opposite ends of the spectrum, such as the Cato Institute & me -- odd bedfellows indeed! The Institute & I seldom agree on economic policy. When we do, that tells you the position is nonpartisan and it has broad appeal. Nuclear waste is the least important reason we (the Inst. & I) oppose nuclear power. Other safety issues, obsolete technology, inability to compete, and skyrocketing costs and liability are the main reasons. People who support the industry should address these issues. Mr. Bear should address these issues, instead of fulminating about how Cato Institute members should be locked up in Guantanamo, along with anti-war firebrands Colin Powell & Brent Scowcroft, I suppose. (More strange bedfellows!) Note: The pending war in Iraq is off-topic here, and no doubt it should be kept off topic, but I couldn't resist. After all, it is war over oil. It is about energy policy. Oil profits, to be exact. Any time in the last ten years, we could have put Iraq out of business, overthrown Hussein, and saved Americans consumers billions of dollars by implementing Japanese technology. Instead we choose to freeze our automotive technology at circa 1980 levels. This is what happens when you decide progress is not worth the trouble. The true Luddites are the people in charge of the automobile industry, the fossil fuel industry, and the Administration. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Mon Aug 26 15:56:06 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA25640; Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:54:34 -0700 Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 15:54:34 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:08:58 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"U2BSM3.0.LG6.d6hQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47878 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All. Ah, the spirit of Mitchell Jones lives on... This bit's my favorite: >It may even come to declaring martial law under the >internal security and FEMA acts. It must be understood that we >need energy independence for our security. Those who would >undermine this must be thought of no different than the Saudi >Al Qaedas that committed terrorism againt our nation last Sept 11th. >They should be considered that way by the new Homeland >Security Department. I forsee the building of many new camps >like in Cuba at Guantanamo to house these sorts. I suspect if Mr. Ashcroft and Mr. Cheney had their way, you'd have your wish. At least we'd see SOMETHING being done with the billions disappearing into their rabbit hole. Apropos of nothing, it struck me the other day that John Ashcroft reminds me of none other than Principal Skinner from "The Simpsons" cartoon. Separated at birth? http://thesimpsons.com/bios/bios_school_skinner.html Couldn't you see Skinner singing this? http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2002/02/25/ashcroft.sings.wbtv.med.html You know, they even sound alike. And dig that phat vibrato! K. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 27 08:04:47 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA24202; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:03:20 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 08:03:20 -0700 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:06:33 -0700 Subject: Nuclear powered micromachine From: "Eugene F. Mallove" To: "vortex l eskimo.com" Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cLmJe.0.4w5.uIvQz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47879 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Science News (8/24/02 - p.162) reports a nuclear powered micromachine developed at Cornell University. The device uses beta-emitter Ni-63 to charge up a cantilever strip of silicon nitride 2 microns thick. When the negative charge is high enough, the strip bends toward the positive Ni and then discharges. This is an oscillatory process that the developers plan to adapt to a rotary motor micromachine. The group built a larger cantilever vibratory device that was reported in the July 15 Journal of Applied Physics. - Gene Mallove www.infinite-energy.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 27 14:06:48 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA04882; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:05:28 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:05:28 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Nuclear powered micromachine Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:04:53 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <6rpnmus4ijgdd0q1u2ff79j9j276850e4m 4ax.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA04829 Resent-Message-ID: <"NW6ai3.0.CC1.Nc-Qz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47880 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Eugene F. Mallove's message of Tue, 27 Aug 2002 11:06:33 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Science News (8/24/02 - p.162) reports a nuclear powered micromachine >developed at Cornell University. > >The device uses beta-emitter Ni-63 to charge up a cantilever strip of >silicon nitride 2 microns thick. When the negative charge is high enough, >the strip bends toward the positive Ni and then discharges. This is an >oscillatory process that the developers plan to adapt to a rotary motor >micromachine. The group built a larger cantilever vibratory device that was >reported in the July 15 Journal of Applied Physics. [snip] What an incredible waste of power. The average energy of these beta-particles is 17 keV. I'd be very surprised if they actually let the voltage rise that high before discharge takes place. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 27 14:22:31 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA14393; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:21:35 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:21:35 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:21:01 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> <3D6A59E4.5F310688@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <3D6A59E4.5F310688 ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id OAA14361 Resent-Message-ID: <"9F5_8.0.pW3.Ur-Qz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47881 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:40:28 -0600: Hi, [snip] > We do not have to make a bad choice while waiting for CF. > All that has to happen is for the price of oil to go up by > a factor of three, and cold fusion will become a reality. > Once this happens, conventional nuclear energy and use of > oil and coal will disappear. At that point, all of our > worries will also disappear, provide the transition can be > made without destroying the world's economy. The transition won't happen unless it results in cheaper power. Making something cheaper has never destroyed the economy. On the contrary, it has always resulted in growth. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 27 15:05:55 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA06503; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:03:55 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:03:55 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Thoughts on Carnot Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:03:21 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id PAA06449 Resent-Message-ID: <"XIkiD1.0.Kb1.AT_Qz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47882 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, Carnot efficiency is based on the assumption that the heat, remaining in a gas after work has been done, is lost. What happens if you have a perfectly insulated engine, where the gas is recompressed, and reheated, only losing energy by doing mechanical work? (Doing work results in the gas cooling down). IOW the kinetic energy of the gas molecules on the cold side is retained by the molecules, and reduces the amount of energy that needs to be added on the hot side to regain the initial hot side temperature? IOW a perfectly insulated Stirling engine with no cold side. As I see it this would mean that in (Th-Tl)/Th, one would no longer need to subtract Tl, as this energy is retained, resulting in a theoretical maximum efficiency of Th/Th i.e. 100%. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 27 15:15:43 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id PAA12322; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:14:33 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:14:33 -0700 Message-ID: <3D6BEDDB.F6709737 ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:24:38 -0600 From: Edmund Storms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company References: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> <3D6A59E4.5F310688@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E0353FBFFED362496C40D299" Resent-Message-ID: <"gEt5f1.0.S03.8d_Qz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47883 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E0353FBFFED362496C40D299 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:40:28 -0600: > Hi, > [snip] > > We do not have to make a bad choice while waiting for CF. > > All that has to happen is for the price of oil to go up by > > a factor of three, and cold fusion will become a reality. > > Once this happens, conventional nuclear energy and use of > > oil and coal will disappear. At that point, all of our > > worries will also disappear, provide the transition can be > > made without destroying the world's economy. > > The transition won't happen unless it results in cheaper power. > Making something cheaper has never destroyed the economy. On the contrary, it has always resulted in growth. CF will make cheaper power, eventually. However, like all new technologies, the initial cost will be high, although cheaper than oil at the time. The threat to the economy occurs when all of the infrastructure associated with oil becomes worthless. In the short term, this would cause massive failures in many major businesses and cause political chaos in the middle east. This is not like any other new technology. Humans never do anything in a reasonable way, so the transition will be driven by greed and local politics. I can imagine as can you, many of the ways the economy could fail before a new path is created. Ed > > > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ > > Competition provides the motivation, > Cooperation provides the means. --------------E0353FBFFED362496C40D299 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="storms2.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Edmund Storms Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="storms2.vcf" begin:vcard n:; tel;work:505 988 3673 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://home.netcom.com/~storms2/index.html org:Energy K. System adr:;;2140 Paseo Ponderosa;Santa Fe;NM;87501;http://home.netcom.com/~storms2/index.html version:2.1 email;internet:storms2 ix.netcom.com x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Edmund Storms end:vcard --------------E0353FBFFED362496C40D299-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Tue Aug 27 16:18:05 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id QAA20390; Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:16:43 -0700 Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 16:16:43 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:16:01 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: References: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> <3D6A59E4.5F310688@ix.netcom.com> <3D6BEDDB.F6709737@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <3D6BEDDB.F6709737 ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id QAA20334 Resent-Message-ID: <"Aqjk3.0.K-4.QX0Rz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47884 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:24:38 -0600: Hi, [snip] >CF will make cheaper power, eventually. However, like all new technologies, the initial cost will be high, >although cheaper than oil at the time. Then it won't replace other technologies, until it is. >The threat to the economy occurs when all of the infrastructure >associated with oil becomes worthless. In the short term, this would cause massive failures in many major >businesses and cause political chaos in the middle east. If middle eastern countries don't have the foresight to invest their oil wealth in other industries, then that's exactly what they deserve. Besides, such a large change will not happen over night. It takes time to manufacture and implement CF technology. Yes some companies will go bust in the process, but others will be born to replace them. >This is not like any other new technology. It is like any other technology. The introduction of the automobile was just as major a change. >Humans >never do anything in a reasonable way, so the transition will be driven by greed and local politics. I can >imagine as can you, many of the ways the economy could fail before a new path is created. I don't foresee an instantaneous transition. Not everyone can afford a new car overnight, so some gas powered vehicles will remain on the roads for some time. Besides part of the oil industry will remain, to produce petrochemicals. The ships will be converted to other uses, or the oldest ones will be scrapped. Gas stations will be scrapped, or converted to other businesses (Burger King? ;). The employees will find work in the CF industry, or in the then burgeoning recycling industry (which will take off in a big way with the advent of truly cheap energy, because recycled materials will be cheaper than raw materials). [snip] (BTW I have no financial interest in Burger King). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 07:13:30 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id HAA06289; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:12:04 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:12:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3D6CCE42.BDA876CA ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:21:10 -0600 From: Edmund Storms X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fw: Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. . . . a feisty company References: <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> <3D6A59E4.5F310688@ix.netcom.com> <3D6BEDDB.F6709737@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------CAC1AC95A868A99939AB2B13" Resent-Message-ID: <"KYlTy.0.AY1.peDRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47885 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CAC1AC95A868A99939AB2B13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Tue, 27 Aug 2002 15:24:38 -0600: > Hi, > [snip] > >CF will make cheaper power, eventually. However, like all new technologies, the initial cost will be high, > >although cheaper than oil at the time. > > Then it won't replace other technologies, until it is. > > >The threat to the economy occurs when all of the infrastructure > >associated with oil becomes worthless. In the short term, this would cause massive failures in many major > >businesses and cause political chaos in the middle east. > > If middle eastern countries don't have the foresight to invest their oil wealth in other industries, then that's exactly what they deserve. Perhaps they will get want they deserve, but the world is now so interconnected that when one group is being punished for stupidities, many other innocent people also suffer. > > Besides, such a large change will not happen over night. It takes time to manufacture and implement CF technology. Yes some companies will go bust in the process, but others will be born to replace them. True, but everything depends on how fast this occurs. In any case, when the prospect of CF becomes real, the value of property associated with oil will quickly drop in value. So a person who paid $100,000 for a gas station, for example, will quickly discovered he can get only $50,000 for the property. So his loan is called and he goes into bankruptcy. This will happen in thousands of different ways. > > > >This is not like any other new technology. > > It is like any other technology. The introduction of the automobile was just as major a change. Yes, it was a major change, but on a much smaller scale. The issue is the scale of the change. > > > >Humans > >never do anything in a reasonable way, so the transition will be driven by greed and local politics. I can > >imagine as can you, many of the ways the economy could fail before a new path is created. > > I don't foresee an instantaneous transition. Not everyone can afford a new car overnight, so some gas powered vehicles will remain on the roads for some time. I agree, but the value of these cars, many of which are collateral for a loan, will drop and the bank will want their money. > Besides part of the oil industry will remain, to produce petrochemicals. Yes, about 1%. This is hardly a way to support an industry. > > The ships will be converted to other uses, or the oldest ones will be scrapped. Yes, but the owners of these ships, many of which are banks, will take a major loss. > Gas stations will be scrapped, or converted to other businesses (Burger King? ;). Who will buy the burgers when everyone is out of work? > > The employees will find work in the CF industry, or in the then burgeoning recycling industry (which will take off in a big way with the advent of truly cheap energy, Eventually this will happen, but it will take a generation. People can not change their jobs or be retrained very fast. The transition will be very painful. > because recycled materials will be cheaper than raw materials). > [snip] If this happens, then the disruption will be even greater as the primary mining industries go broke. While CF offers many advantages in the long run, no one should ignore the short term consequences. Otherwise, the transition will be even worse. Ed --------------CAC1AC95A868A99939AB2B13 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="storms2.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Edmund Storms Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="storms2.vcf" begin:vcard n:; tel;work:505 988 3673 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://home.netcom.com/~storms2/index.html org:Energy K. System adr:;;2140 Paseo Ponderosa;Santa Fe;NM;87501;http://home.netcom.com/~storms2/index.html version:2.1 email;internet:storms2 ix.netcom.com x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:Edmund Storms end:vcard --------------CAC1AC95A868A99939AB2B13-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 08:03:29 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id IAA00905; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:02:03 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:02:03 -0700 X-Sent: 28 Aug 2002 15:01:57 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828104706.02b2b540 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:01:56 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Transition to a CF economy In-Reply-To: References: <3D6BEDDB.F6709737 ix.netcom.com> <000201c24d1f$397fd8c0$e51b80d9 pavilion> <3D6A59E4.5F310688 ix.netcom.com> <3D6BEDDB.F6709737 ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"vyfac1.0._D.gNERz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47886 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >It takes time to manufacture and implement CF technology. I estimate 10 or 20 years, based on previous examples and the life cycle of HVAC equipment, trucks and so on. In the last phase the transition will speed up and old equipment will be replaced sooner than normal because people will not have spare parts or the knowledge to maintain obsolete equipment. See the replacement curve for typewriters or minicomputers. > >This is not like any other new technology. > >It is like any other technology. The introduction of the automobile was >just as major a change. It was one of the biggest transitions in U.S. history, but I think CF would dwarf it. The changeover to automobiles gave rise to dislocations that have now been forgotten. In 1933, for example, Congress had to bail out the railroad pension funds because the number of active railroad workers had fallen, because passenger traffic was reduced by automobiles (and by the depression). In 1939 an economics professor at Cornell told my mother he thought the depression was caused by automobiles replacing horses. Horses required much more labor. The U.S. horse population peaked in 1929. >I don't foresee an instantaneous transition. Not everyone can afford a new >car overnight, so some gas powered vehicles will remain on the roads for >some time. When one-third of the vehicles no longer consume gasoline, gas stations will go out of business in droves, making it difficult to maintain the remaining gasoline vehicles. Gas station profit margins are small. A slight reduction in consumption in the 1970s forced many out of business. When two-thirds are CF powered, the remaining gasoline vehicles will quickly be forced off the road. The same dynamics will force a quick changes to other fossil fuel based technologies, such as beef production. >Gas stations will be scrapped, or converted to other businesses (Burger >King? ;). >The employees will find work in the CF industry . . . There will be no CF industry. All of the labor now performed by 400,000 skilled workers in the U.S. will be replaced by the labor of a dozen low level technicians operating the heavy water extraction machinery. >, or in the then burgeoning recycling industry (which will take off in a >big way with the advent of truly cheap energy, because recycled materials >will be cheaper than raw materials). That is a possibility. Consumers, the Congress and industry will have to plan & implement social policy to achieve smooth transitions to such new industries. Otherwise it will take decades longer. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 11:54:40 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id LAA03758; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:52:46 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:52:46 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:52:56 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Important Announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"vAJaI2.0.ew.zlHRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47887 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: There will be a demonstration of a DeLorean powered by an electric motor and twelve 12 volt standard car batteries. The battery bank is kept in a charged condition by the "on board" charger which is the device invented by Carl B. Tilley. The DeLorean will be driving around the race track all day on Saturday September 7, 2002, at the Nashville Superspeedway. Racing legend Bobby Allison is one of the guest drivers for this demonstration. The demonstration is free and open to the public. For further information go to http://www.tilleyfoundation.com/ For information on how to arrange interviews with the inventor Carl Tilley you can contact either Mr. Tilley at 615 443 5315 or cktilley bellsouth.net or Douglas Littlefield at 802 238 3149 or dougl pshift.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 13:53:05 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id NAA08086; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:51:00 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:51:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:50:00 -0700 From: Jones Beene Subject: Microwave powered lawnmower revisited To: vortex Cc: Frederick Sparber Message-id: <002701c24ed4$7a3ac3a0$0a016ea8 cpq> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01C24E99.CD773660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"SbrIY1.0.C-1.pUJRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47888 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C24E99.CD773660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a "slightly" delayed reply to Mallove's seven-year old message: From: Eugene Mallove=20 Reply to: vortex-l mail.eskimo.com To: Vortex Subject: Lawnmower Man Someone sent me a hard copy of this and I transcribed it. May make for = some fun experiments connected with cavitation, steam, and O-U. Gene Mallove ********************************* The originating message From: Pat_Pelletier mindlink.bc.ca (Pat = Pelletier) Newsgroups: sci.engr Subject: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE - NEW INVENTION Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:54:05 - 0700 Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada [actual message included at end] Does this story ring a bell? Like many vortexians, I will admit to being more than a little skeptical = when this idea was circulating in 1995. After all, how could a microwave = generator (~50% eff) convert a very inefficient Carnot engine (-10% with = gasoline) suddenly into every vortexian's dream of a water-based free = energy converter? Similar reports have reappeared several times since, but I have not seen = an actual replication attempt that was convincing. Now comes Randell Mills' recent presentation at the prestigious 224rd = ACS National Meeting, August 18=9622, 2002, Boston, Massachusetts http://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/technical/ACS%20082702.pdf PLEASE ! every committed free-energy enthusiast must download and read = this pdf file. It is long but well worth the effort, especially towards = the end.=20 It explains his theory has been expanded to cover water vapor, and with = actual test results ! In short, it explains how this "lawnmower thing" = might really have worked - and who is to say it didn't ! Is this a case = of normally gullible vortex experimenters being too skeptical - that's a = first. Especially pay attention when you get to p.42 (of 75). On page 50 you = will find BLP's lame-by comparison method of implementing the = phenomenon.=20 If the theory is accurate (big IF) , and if somebody actually made it = work seven years ago (bigger IF), then maybe the world will be a very = different place very soon, because unlike other implementations of new = theories, i.e. cold fusion, the components to this one (two stroke = engine and magnetron) have already been perfected over the decades with = millions of man-hours of engineering - and can be found in almost every = house in the USA. Attaching a magnetron to a lawnmower engine makes a helluva a lot more = sense to the garage tinkerer than something like a plasma-based reverse = gyrotron. (yes, I know it would still take a huge effort to perfect it) Regards, Jones Beene The Microwave-Based Water Engine From: Pat_Pelletier mindlink.bc.ca (Pat Pelletier)Newsgroups: sci.engr I am posting the following for a friend who does NOT have access to = Internet. Comments welcomed. NOTICE The purpose of this notice is to place into public domain something = which I invented so that it may be patented and in order to prevent it's = use from being restricted in any way. The device is an engine in which = small quantities of water are turned into steam by the use of a = magnetron (as found in microwave ovens). Interested parties may wish to = try this test: Place a few drops of water into a clear plastic 35mm film = roll holder and put the cap on the film roll holder. Place in a = microwave oven and turn the oven on. The 'pop' is the result of the = water turning suddenly into steam. The engine I have invented is far = more efficient than any other steam engine because the efficiency of = the magnetron in turning water into steam. In fact, the water droplet = 'explodes' very much like air/gasoline explodes in a conventional = internal combustion engine. This engine was first tested in 1992. I am = however unable to invest the required capital to produce a more = sophisticated model and therefore unable to patent it. Even though I = may not be able to profit from this technology, it is too good to be = kept to myself and I would like to spread it around so that others may = be able to use it. The following is an outline of how to construct the = device and a few cautions: PARTS NEEDED: 1. Magnetron from medium power microwave oven. 2. Small 4-stroke single cylinder lawn mover engine or similar engine = with 'old style' points and ignition system. 3. Automotive alternator with built-in rectifier and regulator, also a = 12 volt auto battery. 4. "Trigger" mechanism from an aircraft "strobe" landing light. INSTRUCTIONS: 1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug hole. 2. The distributor points are modified so that the contact is closed = when the piston is at the top dead center and this contact is used to = activate the aircraft strobe mechanism. 3. The high voltage from the strobe is connected to directly fire the = magnetron which in turn produces steam which moves the piston. 4. The engine turns the alternator which keeps the battery charged, = which supplies the electrical power for the magnetron. CAUTIONS: WARNING!!! DANGER!!!! EEEK!!!! TIPS: 1. Be careful around the magnetron. KEEP IT SHIELDED WITH METAL. IT = CAN CAUSE SEVERE BURNS THAT MAY NOT BE READILY VISIBLE WHEN THEY FIRST = OCCUR. 2. The 'strobe' trigger delivers a very high voltage which can jump to = ground. WEAR RUBBER SOLED SHOES AND INSULATE WELL. 3. Be sure to modify the distributor points so they close at the top = dead center. Timing advance depends on the power of the magnetron used = and the amount of water. Try different carb jet sizes -- drill out if = needed. 4. Due to variables, don't expect high engine speeds without a little = experimentation due to variables. 5. Start with a fully charged battery or your alternator won't work. 6. The energy produced is in excess of the power required to run the = alternator but until you get the RPM up, and the parts working in = harmony, it may be best to use a battery charger instead of an = alternator. 7. An easy way to measure net power output after you have the = alternator on line is to run a few 12 volt lights from the battery. You = will see that the battery stays charged even with the lights on and the = motor keeps on going. 8. Although I have not tried it, the idea of vaporizing water with = microwaves should also work well in a converted turbine. SPREAD THIS TECHNOLOGY - IT IS FREE!! PRINT THIS BEFORE IT IS DELETED = FROM THE NET! MY CODE FOR FUTURE IDENTIFICATION IS PANGURBAN O.K., Pangurban my man. Here I am spreading your technology. Run, = technology, run! You're free now! I do not know whether this kind of = engine works. It seems plausible, kind of. Try it! John Wiltbank ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C24E99.CD773660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is a "slightly" delayed reply to Mallove's seven-year old = message:

From: Eugene Mallove

Reply to: vortex-l@mail.eskimo.com
= To:=20 Vortex <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subjec= t:=20 Lawnmower Man

Someone sent me a hard copy of this and I transcribed it. May make = for=20 some
fun experiments connected with cavitation, steam, and O-U.

Gene Mallove
*********************************

The originating message From: Pat_Pelletier@mindlink.bc.ca= (Pat=20 Pelletier)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE - NEW=20 INVENTION
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 10:54:05 - 0700
Organization: MIND = LINK! -=20 British Columbia, Canada

[actual message included at end]

Does this story ring a bell?

Like many vortexians, I will admit to being more than a little = skeptical=20 when this idea was circulating in 1995. After all, how could a microwave = generator (~50% eff) convert a very inefficient Carnot engine (-10% with = gasoline) suddenly into every vortexian's dream of a water-based free = energy=20 converter?

Similar reports have reappeared several times since, but I have not = seen an=20 actual replication attempt that was convincing.

Now comes Randell Mills' recent presentation at the prestigious = 224rd ACS=20 National Meeting, August 18=9622, 2002, Boston, Massachusetts

ht= tp://www.blacklightpower.com/pdf/technical/ACS%20082702.pdf

PLEASE ! every committed free-energy enthusiast must download and = read this=20 pdf file. It is long but well worth the effort, especially towards the = end.=20

It explains his theory has been expanded to cover water vapor, = and=20 with actual test results ! In short, it explains how this "lawnmower = thing"=20 might really have worked - and who is to say it didn't ! Is this a case = of=20 normally gullible vortex experimenters being too skeptical - that's a=20 first.

Especially pay attention when you get to p.42 (of 75). On page 50 = you will=20 find BLP's lame-by comparison method of implementing the phenomenon. =

If the theory is accurate (big IF) , and if somebody = actually made it work seven years ago (bigger IF), then maybe the world = will be=20 a very different place very soon, because unlike other implementations = of new=20 theories, i.e. cold fusion, the components to this one (two stroke = engine=20 and magnetron) have already been perfected over the decades with = millions of=20 man-hours of engineering - and can be found in almost every house in the = USA.

Attaching a magnetron to a lawnmower engine makes a helluva a lot = more=20 sense to the garage tinkerer than something like a plasma-based reverse=20 gyrotron. (yes, I know it would still take a huge effort to perfect = it)

Regards,

Jones Beene

The Microwave-Based Water Engine

From: Pat_Pelletier@mindlink.bc.ca= (Pat=20 Pelletier)Newsgroups: sci.engr

I am posting the following for a friend who does NOT have access to = Internet. Comments welcomed.

NOTICE
The purpose of this notice is to place into public = domain=20 something which I invented so that it may be patented and in order to = prevent=20 it's use from being restricted in any way. The device is an engine = in=20 which small quantities of water are turned into steam by the use of a = magnetron=20 (as found in microwave ovens). Interested parties may wish to try = this=20 test: Place a few drops of water into a clear plastic 35mm film roll = holder and=20 put the cap on the film roll holder. Place in a microwave oven and = turn=20 the oven on. The 'pop' is the result of the water turning suddenly into=20 steam. The engine I have invented is far more efficient than any = other=20 steam engine because the efficiency of the magnetron in turning = water into=20 steam. In fact, the water droplet 'explodes' very much like = air/gasoline=20 explodes in a conventional internal combustion engine. This engine = was=20 first tested in 1992. I am however unable to invest the = required=20 capital to produce a more sophisticated model and therefore unable to = patent=20 it. Even though I may not be able to profit from this technology, = it is=20 too good to be kept to myself and I would like to spread it around so = that=20 others may be able to use it. The following is an outline of how = to=20 construct the device and a few cautions:

PARTS NEEDED:
1. Magnetron from medium power microwave = oven.
2. Small=20 4-stroke single cylinder lawn mover engine or similar engine with 'old = style'=20 points and ignition system.
3. Automotive alternator with = built-in=20 rectifier and regulator, also a 12 volt auto battery.
4. "Trigger" = mechanism=20 from an aircraft "strobe" landing light.

INSTRUCTIONS:
1. The magnetron fits into the spark plug=20 hole.
2. The distributor points are modified so that the = contact is=20 closed when the piston is at the top dead center and this contact is = used to=20 activate the aircraft strobe mechanism.
3. The high = voltage from=20 the strobe is connected to directly fire the magnetron which in turn = produces=20 steam which moves the piston.
4. The engine turns the = alternator which=20 keeps the battery charged, which supplies the electrical power for the=20 magnetron.

CAUTIONS: WARNING!!! DANGER!!!! EEEK!!!!

TIPS:
1. Be careful around the magnetron. KEEP IT = SHIELDED WITH=20 METAL. IT CAN CAUSE SEVERE BURNS THAT MAY NOT BE READILY VISIBLE = WHEN THEY=20 FIRST OCCUR.
2. The 'strobe' trigger delivers a very high = voltage=20 which can jump to ground. WEAR RUBBER SOLED SHOES AND INSULATE=20 WELL.
3. Be sure to modify the distributor points so they = close at the=20 top dead center. Timing advance depends on the power of the magnetron = used and=20 the amount of water. Try different carb jet sizes -- drill out if=20 needed.
4. Due to variables, don't expect high engine speeds = without a=20 little experimentation due to variables.
5. Start with a fully = charged=20 battery or your alternator won't work.
6. The energy produced = is in=20 excess of the power required to run the alternator but until you get the = RPM up,=20 and the parts working in harmony, it may be best to use a battery = charger=20 instead of an alternator.
7. An easy way to measure net power = output=20 after you have the alternator on line is to run a few 12 volt lights = from the=20 battery. You will see that the battery stays charged even with the = lights=20 on and the motor keeps on going.
8. Although I have not = tried=20 it, the idea of vaporizing water with microwaves should also work well = in a=20 converted turbine.
SPREAD THIS TECHNOLOGY - IT IS FREE!! PRINT = THIS=20 BEFORE IT IS DELETED FROM THE NET! MY CODE FOR FUTURE = IDENTIFICATION IS=20 PANGURBAN

O.K., Pangurban my man. Here I am spreading your technology. Run,=20 technology, run! You're free now! I do not know whether this kind of = engine=20 works. It seems plausible, kind of. Try it!

John Wiltbank

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C24E99.CD773660-- From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 14:12:26 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA18059; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:11:17 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:11:17 -0700 X-Sent: 28 Aug 2002 21:11:10 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828170754.00ad2158 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:10:52 -0400 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Re: Important Announcement In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"q7Klr3.0.4Q4.qnJRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47889 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: That is an important announcement! If it is real, that is. You have to give credit to this group for showing their magic motor vehicle to the public and doing credible tests with realistic measurement techniques. (At least, they claim they have done such tests, and they describe them in a plausible, capable manner.) Unfortunately, no one will believe them unless they can find a way to let many engineers test the gadget for themselves. It would help tremendously if they had a much smaller, portable version. Based on my dealings with similar people, I doubt they understand this. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 14:21:22 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id OAA22831; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:19:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:19:48 -0700 X-Sent: 28 Aug 2002 21:19:37 GMT Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828171636.00ad2158 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-Sender: jedrothwell mail.DIRECTVInternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:19:34 -0400 To: vortex-L eskimo.com From: Jed Rothwell Subject: Bockris paper in LENR.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Resent-Message-ID: <"V79Eh2.0.fa5.qvJRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47890 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here is a fascinating review of the early history of cold fusion, and Bockris's research & controversy in related areas: Journal of New Energy, Vol 4, no 2, 1999, p. 40 EARLY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM WORKERS AT TEXAS A&M UNIVERSITY TO (SO-CALLED) LOW ENERGY NUCLEAR REACTIONS J. O'M. Bockris Paper listed in this index: http://lenr.org/papers/ Direct link to paper: http://lenr.org/papers/pdf/BockrisJNE.pdf LENR.org has attracted hundreds of visitors, and over 2,000 copies of papers have been downloaded from it. Thanks to Hal Fox for permission to reprint, and for providing the paper in electronic format (Word Perfect format, which I like). - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 20:31:48 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id UAA20595; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:30:45 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:30:45 -0700 Message-ID: <20020829033012.11137.qmail web40409.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:30:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Important Announcement To: vortex-l eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828170754.00ad2158 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ZV-Dz.0.j15.aLPRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47891 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Jed: I don't see any free anergy claims here. Did I miss simething? All you have to do to double the range is double the storage... or cut the friction in half... Once a car is up to speed you need only replace energy lost to to travel. It is when you stop and go that you do most of your energy waste Proving a good electric car is not all that importiant. Having a market for one is. I will ask this one question. Does it have an air conditioner? AC is simply what it will take to have a market. Most cars have 5000 BUT/hr as required by the thermal load (widnshield if you are traveling west in the afternoon) In my case aprosimatly 3600 BTU/hr of solar heat pour through the windshield in the afternoon rush. An open window and a fan is simply inadiquate when the ambient temperature over the highway blacktop is about 115F (20F more then measured over grass) and the dewpoint is in the 70's --- Jed Rothwell wrote: > That is an important announcement! If it is real, that is. > > You have to give credit to this group for showing their magic motor > vehicle > to the public and doing credible tests with realistic measurement > techniques. (At least, they claim they have done such tests, and they > describe them in a plausible, capable manner.) > > Unfortunately, no one will believe them unless they can find a way to > let > many engineers test the gadget for themselves. It would help > tremendously > if they had a much smaller, portable version. Based on my dealings with > > similar people, I doubt they understand this. > > - Jed For further information go to http://www.tilleyfoundation.com/ ===== Charles Ford KC5-OWZ cjford1 yahoo.com cjford1 swbell.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 22:15:07 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA09297; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:14:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:14:16 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Keith Nagel" To: Subject: RE: Important Announcement Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 01:28:45 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828170754.00ad2158 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Resent-Message-ID: <"cCxZZ2.0.4H2.esQRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47892 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi All. Yes, this is strange indeed. Why go to all the trouble of building a car, when you could put together a simple demonstrator to distribute to many interested parties? Haven't they patented the basic invention yet? If they can reveal none of the inner workings of the car, then they will never convince people that they're on the level. I once employed a former Soviet mathematician who demonstrated to me a physical jesture used in the Ukraine for this sort of thing. He would take his right arm, stretch it over and around the back of his head, and scratch his left ear. Soviet humor is sort of blunt yet very funny in a backhanded way... K. -----Original Message----- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothwell infinite-energy.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 5:11 PM To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Important Announcement That is an important announcement! If it is real, that is. You have to give credit to this group for showing their magic motor vehicle to the public and doing credible tests with realistic measurement techniques. (At least, they claim they have done such tests, and they describe them in a plausible, capable manner.) Unfortunately, no one will believe them unless they can find a way to let many engineers test the gadget for themselves. It would help tremendously if they had a much smaller, portable version. Based on my dealings with similar people, I doubt they understand this. - Jed From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Wed Aug 28 22:19:55 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id WAA11556; Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:19:01 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:19:01 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20020829033012.11137.qmail web40409.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020829033012.11137.qmail web40409.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:19:13 -0500 To: vortex-l eskimo.com From: thomas malloy Subject: Re: Important Announcement Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Resent-Message-ID: <"U53lO1.0.Uq2.5xQRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47893 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Jed: > >I don't see any free anergy claims here. Did I miss simething? All you >have to do to double the range is double the storage... or cut the >friction in half... I wrote the following paragraph to the contact man for the Tilley Foundation. He questioned why Hal Puthoff needs a bomb calorimeter in order to test F E machines. This issue sounds similar to the discussion you are having here, If I wrong, correct me. My station wagon gets 20 MPG. A gallon of gasoline has 135,000 btu's. The engine is about 20% efficient, in turning the energy in the gasoline into rotary energy. Consequently 27,000 btu's are required in order to move the car 20 miles. The energy in the batteries can be calculated based on the number of amps of current they will deliver times the number of minutes that they will deliver those amps, until they are discharged. That number is multiplied times 12 volts and divided by 60 minutes in an hour. this gives the number of watt hours that the battery can deliver. You divide that number by 3157 btu's in a kilowatt hour. Now you know the number of btu's that the battery can deliver, multiply that by 12 batteries, and you know how many btu's the battery pack has available. The Delorian is more areodynamic than my wagon, but you get the idea, I hope. > >Once a car is up to speed you need only replace energy lost to to travel. > It is when you stop and go that you do most of your energy waste Have you ever heard of air resistance? It consumes most of the power an automobile's engine generates. Air resistance increases dramatically with increased speed, the reason that they are having this demonstration on a race track is because the car goes 120 MPH. My SWAG of the power required to do this is 50 KW. If my wagon consumes 27,000 BTU's to go 20 miles then it will consume 3 times that to go 60 miles, which is one hours driving at 60 MPH, 87,000 BTU's. divided by 3157 btu's / KW hr that gives the equivelant of 26.65 KW hr equivelants. I'm sure that increasing the speed to 120 would at least double the energy consumption, my SWAG looks good > >Proving a good electric car is not all that importiant. Having a market >for one is. I will ask this one question. Does it have an air >conditioner? AC is simply what it will take to have a market. With 50 KW available, I don't think that turning the air conditioner compresser is going to be a problem. > >An open window and a fan is simply inadiquate when the ambient >temperature over the highway blacktop is about 115F (20F more then >measured over grass) and the dewpoint is in the 70's > No you certainly can't expect and Yuppie capable of affording a new car to do without air! From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 29 00:26:03 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id AAA28433; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:25:02 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:25:02 -0700 From: Robin van Spaandonk To: vortex-l eskimo.com Subject: Re: Important Announcement Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:24:28 +1000 Organization: Improving Message-ID: <4tirmu4rpudhacmhq57o16p38nd166acih 4ax.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020828170754.00ad2158 mail.DIRECTVInternet.com> <20020829033012.11137.qmail@web40409.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20020829033012.11137.qmail web40409.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by mx1.eskimo.com id AAA28400 Resent-Message-ID: <"M7u.0.5y6.EnSRz" mx1> Resent-From: vortex-l eskimo.com Reply-To: vortex-l eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/47894 X-Loop: vortex-l eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vortex-l-request eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In reply to Charles Ford's message of Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:30:12 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Jed: > >I don't see any free anergy claims here. Did I miss simething? All you Yes. They ran a test after removing the on-board charger, running on batteries only, and the car only went 9.8 miles. In another test, *with* on-board charger, they did 200 miles, and the batteries were fully charged when they got back. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/ Competition provides the motivation, Cooperation provides the means. From vortex-l-request eskimo.com Thu Aug 29 03:44:26 2002 Received: (from smartlst localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.9.1a/8.8.8) id DAA14623; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 03:43:18 -0700 Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 03:43:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000e01c24f3f$bad74800$9b09bf3f computer> From: "Frederick Sparber" To: